# Out of control in Lake Tahoe



## dls911 (Aug 13, 2010)

Hello all,

My husband Charles and I took Wiley (now 6 months old) up to Lake Tahoe this past weekend.



















We timed it just right for some beautiful weather (high 70'-mid 80's) and stayed at a spot where the lake is quite shallow so the water was warm and inviting. Because it is after Labor Day we were able to let Wiley off leash so he could run and jump and play to his hearts desire. It was like heaven on earth; at first.

The first day was really great, pretty mellow with no mishaps. Wiley, tested out the water, slowly but surely. He was a bit nervous but wanted to explore more so we encouraged him by walking out little by little. Eventually he began running and splashing about, happy as can be. At times he would wander a little far but when I whistled he came running. So, naturally we thought the next day was going to be just an extension of the first. Boy, were we wrong.

Upon approach to the beach he started getting very excited and twirling around on his leash, so we let him go thinking he was going to go play and stick close by. He was happy to run around picking up sticks and things off the beach and then it escalated to running onto other peoples blankets and snatching things right off their towels!! This is where the trouble starts.

At one point he grabbed a ball right out of the middle of a game that a group of twenty-somethings were playing which didn't go over well. Wiley ran off with the ball and my husband couldn't get it back. I had to be called in to try and control him (he will usually come to me, but rarely to my husband when off leash) and retrieve the ball but not after some embarrassing moments of chasing him down the beach. This really upset my husband after one of the guys said "can't you control your own dog?". So, we put him back on the leash and sat under the shadow of both our umbrella and the recent incident wondering what we did wrong, wondering if this crazy energy will ever calm down.

Wiley definitely gets over stimulated. He seems a bit crazy at times. He just gets into this zone where he is spinning out of control. We have been putting it off to puppy energy and keep saying that it will calm down. But it seems to be getting worse. Another thing that really bothers me is that he growls at people sometimes, in a very menacing way. I yank on his collar and give a firm no, and then move him away. But this is very disturbing to me. I really dont' think that the growl is connected to a bite, b/c he will calm down when the person actually gets closer. But it seems unbalanced.

He is scheduled for his neutering next week, is it true that this can calm a male dog down? Is hyperactivity normal for a six month old? Is he going through a phase? Are we overstimulating him? Giving him too much freedom?

On the day of the ball snatching there was a little 4 month old puppy that just followed its owners around happily stood near by, playing, watching and being really mellow. We sat under our umbrella looking at that puppy, then to ours, who was madly digging a hole in the sand and wondered.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

oh dear! Not a happy time for you. 

I would suggest a trainer or the next level of puppy obedience classes. I probably wouldn't let him off leash until you are absolutely sure of his recall. It sounds as if the excitement of the beach was too much for him. My Aussie needs 'quiet' time every hour to set her two brain cells. Otherwise, she is a total snarky spaz. Good luck!


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Oh, that must have been embarrassing! Especially being accused of being bad parents.....lol I really do think he will calm down after the neuter and with age. I can't really give any advice since we've never been able to let Abby off leash without her bolting! I'm sure someone here has some good advice, though!


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

I'm not a trainer, and I have no idea how often you work with Wiley, so please take this with a grain (or three) of salt.

It sounds like he has too much freedom, too soon. Not enough time working with him / disciplining him, showing him the ropes and teaching him what is acceptable vs. what is not.

Until he has a completely reliable recall with both you and your husband, I wouldn't let him off leash...but that's just me. I would definitely say get some help from a professional trainer. Let them show you how to work with him, how to best teach him in a way that he will understand.

I've had dogs my entire life (sometimes just one, at times up to six at once...) and the one thing I have learned is that no two dogs are ever the same. They have different energy levels, different attention spans, even different ways of learining. It sounds like you just haven't established yourself as "in charge" ALL the time, not just some of the time, and a trainer can help you do that.

He's a cutie, and it sounds like he has many of the basics down. Just not as reliable/solid as you would prefer.

You'll get there, and he sure is a cutie!!! Good luck and keep us posted.


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## dls911 (Aug 13, 2010)

Yes, I believe you are right. Our lack of experience with dog handling is showing. Neither Charles or I have had a dog before so we don't always recognize the cues. I think some of his behavior at the beach was due to feeling insecure. I feel bad for not seeing it then. We are still getting to know our little guy. We've had him for a month and a half and he is changing so fast. 

We are currently enrolled in puppy kindergarten through the SPCA but will look into a private trainer too. I have to admit I didn't know raising a balanced dog was this challenging. 

Thanks again.

Thanks for your help, as always this forum is such a blessing.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Well, IMO..he's just being a rambunctious, high spirited puppy and I do think neutering and getting a bit older will slow him down some as far as the play goes, my girl LOVES for me to chase her, so I can see how that could happen, but I"d be pretty horrified if she snatched other people's stuff (It is that type of thing that you'll likely look back and laugh at it) but no fun to actually 'go through'.

You really should get the growling thing under control, I had some issues with this with her when she didn't want to be picked up by the kids while she was napping, she still protests it but it has become more of a sad moan or grumble than a growl when she was a puppy. I never took it as an aggressive/attack type think, but more of a 'leave me alone'. I was very stern with the NO and would do the alpha 'hold', and then reward /praise the correct behavior and she grew out of it. When is the growl happening and with who? Strangers? 

I do think at 6 months this is fixable, and some is just age and energy...

Kara


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## dls911 (Aug 13, 2010)

As for the growling, it is always at strangers and always when he is on leash. If I then pick him up and walk up to the person he stops and sniffs but wants to get away, unless I give that person a treat to give to him, then he is fine.


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## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

Debbie, I've been told by my trainer not to correct growling as it is your dog's warning signal and a good cue for you to know that Wiley is uncomfortable. If he's not allowed to growl, his next option is to bite and you certainly don't want that. Piper growls when she is unsure or scared of something and I used to wonder why she was being mean and now I understand that she is telling me she is scared and I need to help her feel more comfortable. She grew out of it for the most part but when she does it, I understand that she's nervous.

I think a lot of it is Wiley being a normal puppy and as he gets more socialized he will be less afraid of things and less likely to growl. Each friendly stranger he meets will reinforce the idea that there is no need to be afraid of strangers and he will stop growling.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

He is a (little) dog but you still have to be firm with him and teach him NOW before there are bigger issues/problems.Start with recall exercises ASAP!


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

NILF
http://www.terrificpets.com/articles/102212265.asp


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I think he probably was just doing a RLH with his freedom and still being young and not understanding there are some things he shouldn't do.
One tip....never chase a dog because they think it's a play thing. Better to fall you your knees and call him or get his attention and run the other way. He will then most likely run after you!

You and your DH could use 'tiny' treats and practice recall in the house or a fenced in area. Take turns calling him and giving a treat. After you feel that he has learned, you can practice without treats...using excited praise.

Just doing little things will help in training....like "nothing in life is free"....make his 'sit' before he gets his food, water, toy, etc. Make sure he 'waits' till you or DH go out the door first...or come in. He needs to know who is in charge.
Doing these little things...and time...will make a big difference.
Some puppy classes....searching on this forum....will give you a lot of info that will really help to have a well behaved little fellow!!!
He's a cutie....and 'wants' to please you. You just need to train him so he will know what pleases you!


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## dbeech (Jun 16, 2009)

Sounds like Wiley has leash aggression. My Riley has this also. It is a fear based aggression. Dave T from the forum recommended the book Feisty Fido to me and it has been helpful.


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## Cristina76 (Jan 7, 2007)

Here's a little thing I was taught from a dog trainer. The dog trainer I went to uses this with her dogs when she’s out walking like in the woods and has the dogs all check back with her when ever she wants.... When having little dogs they tend to do that duck and run thing when you try get them or whatever. This works wonderfully with my Grizzly, 

ok.. so I put my arm straight down the side of my body, palm facing in front of me. All I say is "TOUCH" and the dog will come over and touch his nose to my hand. :cheer2:This didn’t take long to teach, I rubbed pupperoni treats all over my palm which encouraged him to lick my hand. The best thing to do is make a game out of it.. I actually use this all day long (for fun).. I don’t give treats anymore, just allot of praise, I do this many times during the day when I’m in the house or outside or at the dog park. if the dog hesitates, you can just move your hand backwards which will be non threatening to the dog and will make him want to move forward. 

I use this to get my dogs attention or to have him come when he's off leash. 

Grizzly has this habits that when he grabs something he's not suppose to have, and he knows I see it he runs with the object as fast as he can to the doggy door and runs out in the yard. I’m not going to be running all over the yard in the dark.. Yeah right… so this is the method I use.. I never chase him, I always make him come to me.. And 99% of the time whatever he took out that he wasn’t suppose to have he brings back in and drops it by my foot.. LOL I think this is a game that he plays with me now.. LOL oh well.. 

Also when your dog learns this and comes to you, you can then teach the command "FREEZE or STOP" Which is a command to make them stop and look at you so you can scoop them up... I use this one on my Doxie allot.. My doxie is so stubborn, and really just does what he wants, he knows commands but doesn’t care to listen...but he knows freeze (Cooper is always on leash, cause he just doesn‘t listen:frusty::Grizzly however is off leash all the time, specially when I‘m out at the winery, I always feel bad that cooper is attached to my hip with his leash….

Sorry for all my rambling, :biggrin1:and to be honest I don’t know if this will help... but Grizzly loves it.. it's a fun game.. and works when I want him to come. I still use come.. But he thinks that word means he’s in trouble.. So when he hears the word “TOUCH” he thinks its GAME time.. LOL :cheer2: ound:

Remember make it a :whoo:Fun Fun Game:whoo:, sound happy and enthusiastic. But remember at the dinner table when he keeps touch his nose on your leg over and over and over it’s cause He’s Touching and wants some.. Lol the trainer warned of this, and it does happen… I think it’s cute.. eace:

Cristina


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## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

Christina-Great ideas. How did you teach the freeze or stop command?


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## Cristina76 (Jan 7, 2007)

Julie.... The trainer had us work on the Stop or freeze comand after the dogs understood touch... but if I remember correctly we would start with the dog near us... when they are just walkiing around... and then we would say "stop" or "Freeze" we said with urgency and quickly scoop them up... the dog would usually just lay down... and then you tell them they are good, this is good when they are offleash and you need to get them quickly.


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## LilyMyLove (Jul 11, 2009)

I do "freeze" with Lily. She can be a dickens to catch but for some reason it works. She usually will sit still and wait for me to scoop her up or roll on her back immediately for a belly rub. I use a pretty commanding voice when I do it-not my playtime voice so that may have something to do with it. Its good to have in my arsenal for emergencies and we need to practice it more, but 9/10 it works.


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## Cristina76 (Jan 7, 2007)

Yeah i do "touch" everyday ... I try to do the Freeze but dont do it as much as i should... I think they are both great! I will always teach any dogs i get in the future the "touch" it's so awesome...


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

We are working on 'touch' in class now. For some reason, Augie gets soo excited when we work on that one. The 'freeze' command sounds like a useful one - hope we cover that one. He is doing so much better about jumping on people. This week we have had guests so haven't worked on our skills like we should have been, except for working on him not jumping on people. They have gone now...so we will be practicing more. It is hard when you have guests and they encourage him to jump up because he is so cute. He has won over every single guest this summer, with the exception of one of my sisters who does NOT like dogs. Everyone has commented that he just doesn't seem like a dog and how he just focuses in on people and stares and his personality. I was pretty proud of his behavior this last week. We are not at the point, however, where I would feel comfortable with him off leash out in the open around water or other dogs. That one makes me a bit nervous yet.


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

I use "Wait" a lot - much like Freeze or Stop, it means stop what you're doing and wait for further instruction. Freeze if you're running, hang out there if you're sitting, etc. I used this in formal obedience for the recall versus the stay command, which means stay put until I come back for you.

My sisters, cousins, and I were walking with my dog and their young kids... they were heading up a hill way ahead of us and I yelled out "Wait!" and all kids plus the dog stopped and turned back to look at us - pretty funny!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Not to worry , you have a typical six month old adolescent dog. Try not to punish the growling or failed recall. You will only make it worse. At his age ,it's all about ADOLESCENCE. .. Do not expect a perfect recall this early. It takes a while to get reliability. If he has a choice between something more exciting than coming to you , you bet he will choose it. Pay attention to the growling ,but like mentioned don't punish it. He might need some training with strangers, especially if on leash. Here's an article on his main problem right now. http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/it’s-all-about-adolescence


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