# When to start going for walks?



## Pooch (Nov 23, 2010)

I've read conflicting info on when to start walking a puppy. My guy comes home this week and he will be 11 weeks. Can I start taking him for short walks around the block once or twice a day right away? I want to get him used to the leash and walking with me. I live in a quiet neighborhood...any dog we may run into would be well kept and on leash.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The problem is that it is impossible to keep a small puppy's nose off the ground, and you have no idea what dogs have been there before, and weather they have been vaccinated properly. I am ALL for early socialization, and strongly urge you to sign up for puppy kindergarten and start arranging play dates with quiet, fully vaccinated dogs ASAP. But I would NOT walk him in public areas until he is full vaccinated himself. Loose leash walking takes time to learn, and you really have all the space you need in your own backyard. (or even in the house, if that's not possible)


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## Divaskychick (May 18, 2011)

So when IS a good time, then? Soleil will get her second round of shots at 13 weeks. She starts puppy kindergarden a few days later. Do we wait for the third round before we walk on city streets? 

(sorry if I'm hijacking your thread, Pooch!)


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Where I live many people don't vaccinate at all and there are frequent appeals from the SPCA about pets dying of parvo and urging people to vaccinate their pets. Since people are also really remiss about pooper-scooping despite laws being in place, I sure wasn't risking it. My vet said 2 weeks after the 2nd shot to be on the safe side.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Divaskychick said:


> So when IS a good time, then? Soleil will get her second round of shots at 13 weeks. She starts puppy kindergarden a few days later. Do we wait for the third round before we walk on city streets?
> 
> (sorry if I'm hijacking your thread, Pooch!)


Yes, I'd wait until a couple of weeks after the 3rd round of shots.

Also, consider spacing your shots out. Havs, in particular, tend to be vaccine sensitive. She may be fine being hit with all at once, but some have a heck of a time, and hitting them with too many vaccines at once can lead to complications later. I space inoculations for ALL my animals out at least 3 weeks apart. That way, they are completely over one before their immune system is assaulted by another. By making these changes, I went from a cat who needed to be re-medicated with pred and benadryl before inoculations to being absolutely fine, with no side effects whatsoever.


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## kimnaz (Feb 15, 2011)

It's funny that I saw this thread tonight. I called my vet today to ask the same question and he told me after the 3rd they would be safe for walks but he would really recommend waiting until after the 4th.


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## CrazieJones (May 28, 2011)

kimnaz said:


> It's funny that I saw this thread tonight. I called my vet today to ask the same question and he told me after the 3rd they would be safe for walks but he would really recommend waiting until after the 4th.


4th? I thought you only need 3?! 
I don't have a yard cause the builder for my place haven't landscaped yet. However, I'm more worried that Roshi will be too sheltered from the outside. But my vet seemed ok for walks - just told me not to go to public dog places like parks and pet stores, and don't let him smell dog poop. So I at least took him out to walk down the alleys (I live in a townhome). So I also get to meet new neighbors and all.

Therefore, it's ALL about socialization. I could totally see a difference between Roshi and the other puppies at puppy school. He's like Mr. Happy Go Lucky and sniffing other dogs and meeting people.

He is a pain to toilet train, but he is the non-shy pup - cuz I socialized him well when he was 8-12 wks. I'm proud of him.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

kimnaz said:


> It's funny that I saw this thread tonight. I called my vet today to ask the same question and he told me after the 3rd they would be safe for walks but he would really recommend waiting until after the 4th.


They don't get their 4th until 1 year after their 3rd!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

CrazieJones said:


> 4th? I thought you only need 3?!
> I don't have a yard cause the builder for my place haven't landscaped yet. However, I'm more worried that Roshi will be too sheltered from the outside. But my vet seemed ok for walks - just told me not to go to public dog places like parks and pet stores, and don't let him smell dog poop. So I at least took him out to walk down the alleys (I live in a townhome). So I also get to meet new neighbors and all.
> 
> Therefore, it's ALL about socialization. I could totally see a difference between Roshi and the other puppies at puppy school. He's like Mr. Happy Go Lucky and sniffing other dogs and meeting people.
> ...


Socialization is S-O-O important!!! Good for you!


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## kimnaz (Feb 15, 2011)

krandall said:


> They don't get their 4th until 1 year after their 3rd!!!


Thanks for the info. I will ask about the 4th.

Ok I called again. Pls let me know if I'm getting wrong info. Kaleb has had 3 distemper/parvo. He is scheduled for Rabies this week and than next month his 4th distemper/parvo??


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Rollie had his 3rd parvo/distemper the other day so we can soon visit dog parks and stuff. I've been doing some walking only on pavement on our very quiet cul-de-sac so he can start to get used to the leash and meet some people/dogs. I'm noticing that he either wants to run and investigate everything, sit and look around, or rush forward. I'm not sure what the best method to teach loose-leash to a Hav pup. They are so small it is hard to treat for the right behavior. It seems impossible to walk and bend all the way down there to treat him without killing myself.

What techniques have worked for other people?

P.S. I don't mean to change the subject, but I wasn't sure if I should start a whole new thread on walking with an open one.


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## kimnaz (Feb 15, 2011)

The vet said the smae thing today. They would prefer the 4th distemper/parvo. before they go out on walks but I called my breeder and she said as long as he has had his 3rd after his 16th week of birth he is ok to go out for walks. But she did say she wouldn't visit dog parks until he is 6 months.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

kimnaz said:


> Thanks for the info. I will ask about the 4th.
> 
> Ok I called again. Pls let me know if I'm getting wrong info. Kaleb has had 3 distemper/parvo. He is scheduled for Rabies this week and than next month his 4th distemper/parvo??


I have no idea why or when they would be giving a 4th parvo/distemper, other than the one year booster. Havs are known vaccine sensitive dogs and should NOT be over-vaccinated. Here is Jean Dodds' protocol:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANINE VACCINATION PROTOCOL - 2010

MINIMAL VACCINE USE

W. Jean Dodds, DVM
HEMOPET / HEMOLIFE
11561 Salinaz Avenue
Garden Grove, CA 92843

Phone: (714) 891-2022
Fax: (714) 891-2123
e mail: [email protected]

Note: The following vaccine protocol is offered for those dogs where minimal vaccinations are advisable or desirable. The schedule is one I recommend and should not interpreted to mean that other protocols recommended by a veterinarian would be less satisfactory. It's a matter of professional judgment and choice.

Age of Pups
Vaccine Type

9 - 10 weeks Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV (e.g. Intervet 
Progard Puppy DPV)

14 weeks Same as above Same as above (optional)

16 -18 weeks (optional)

20 weeks or older, if allowable by law Rabies

1 year Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV

1 year Rabies, killed 3-year product (give 3-4 weeks apart from distemper/parvovirus booster)

Perform vaccine antibody titers for distemper and parvovirus every three years thereafter, or more often, if desired. Vaccinate for rabies virus according to the law, except where circumstances indicate that a written waiver needs to be obtained from the primary care veterinarian. In that case, a rabies antibody titer can also be performed to accompany the waiver request.

Dr. Dodds does diagnostic testing, including titer testing, at Hemopet.org

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I would definitely talk to you vet about this protocol if they are suggesting more vaccines than this... especially during the first year. (some people choose to continue with yearly vaccines because it's cheaper than titers, though I wouldn't) But I CERTAINLY wouldn't subject a young puppy's immune system to vaccination beyond this protocol. Most vets are well aware of the problem with vaccine sensitivity with some breeds and more than willing to accommodate this.


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## CrazieJones (May 28, 2011)

jessegirl said:


> Rollie had his 3rd parvo/distemper the other day so we can soon visit dog parks and stuff. I've been doing some walking only on pavement on our very quiet cul-de-sac so he can start to get used to the leash and meet some people/dogs. I'm noticing that he either wants to run and investigate everything, sit and look around, or rush forward. I'm not sure what the best method to teach loose-leash to a Hav pup. They are so small it is hard to treat for the right behavior. It seems impossible to walk and bend all the way down there to treat him without killing myself.
> 
> What techniques have worked for other people?
> 
> P.S. I don't mean to change the subject, but I wasn't sure if I should start a whole new thread on walking with an open one.


My Roshi does the same thing, and he's good sometimes. And during those "sometimes" I just praise him "good boy, doing so well". But the moment he starts dashing, I stop. Then he would just sit in front of my feet. I'm no expert, but these are textbook knowledge. I just started puppy school and I know they will show us some tips too.

Practice makes perfect!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

CrazieJones said:


> My Roshi does the same thing, and he's good sometimes. And during those "sometimes" I just praise him "good boy, doing so well". But the moment he starts dashing, I stop. Then he would just sit in front of my feet. I'm no expert, but these are textbook knowledge. I just started puppy school and I know they will show us some tips too.
> 
> Practice makes perfect!


The best way to learn loose leash walking is in lessons, as the instructor will help you perfect your timing. In the mean time, here is a YouTube video from an excellent trainer. The only thing I would avoid with a little dog is throwing the treat on the floor. (little dogs tend to do enough floor surfing as it is!:biggrin1 Instead, HAND them the treat at each of the spots where these people are tossing the treat to their pups.


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## kimnaz (Feb 15, 2011)

krandall said:


> I have no idea why or when they would be giving a 4th parvo/distemper, other than the one year booster. Havs are known vaccine sensitive dogs and should NOT be over-vaccinated. Here is Jean Dodds' protocol:
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. I am soo nervous and confused. I have all his records in front of me so I will check all the dates and make sure I keep him safe. I printed something from Dale also. I have some reading to do. The breeder immunized him at 8 wks and than he has gotten 2 here so he should be done based on the above info. Rabies should be next and than he is done for a year. Thanks again!!:frusty:


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

krandall said:


> The best way to learn loose leash walking is in lessons, as the instructor will help you perfect your timing. In the mean time, here is a YouTube video from an excellent trainer. The only thing I would avoid with a little dog is throwing the treat on the floor. (little dogs tend to do enough floor surfing as it is!:biggrin1 Instead, HAND them the treat at each of the spots where these people are tossing the treat to their pups.


Krandall, that video is great! The part that will do it for us is the first stage where you face the dog. So simple, but of course, I wouldn't have thought of doing it that way.

Rollie is doing so well, but a comment you made about how the little guys do so much floor surfing brought up a question I've had for a bit now. As I've said, he is really coming along with training - he's solid with "sit" and recall too even with no treats (although recall hasn't been tested in highly distracting situations yet). And he's progressing really well with "stay" and "leave it" and we've just started adding "drop." But what I'm noticing is that he hasn't yet made the connection that the fastest way to reward is to cue into me. He will often sniff the floor for a moment or two between repetitions although he will shortly return his attention to me. When his attention doesn't come back, I stop training (sometimes after 5 minutes, sometimes after just one or two reps). We have done plenty of name calling & watch me training, but this is still happening. I've been figuring that this might be due to his age - will be 14 weeks this weekend, but I'm wondering if this might be permanent ... Is this the Hav style? The floor is so close to their noses so it might be hard for him to not look for crumbs after reps, but I'm hoping he'll start to show more focus on us.

Oh and he definitely likes training so it isn't that he isn't engaged. As soon as he sees the black treat belt, and now the clicker, he comes right over and sits at attention.

P.P.S. Sorry for changing the topic further!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jessegirl said:


> Krandall, that video is great! The part that will do it for us is the first stage where you face the dog. So simple, but of course, I wouldn't have thought of doing it that way.
> 
> Rollie is doing so well, but a comment you made about how the little guys do so much floor surfing brought up a question I've had for a bit now. As I've said, he is really coming along with training - he's solid with "sit" and recall too even with no treats (although recall hasn't been tested in highly distracting situations yet). And he's progressing really well with "stay" and "leave it" and we've just started adding "drop." But what I'm noticing is that he hasn't yet made the connection that the fastest way to reward is to cue into me. He will often sniff the floor for a moment or two between repetitions although he will shortly return his attention to me. When his attention doesn't come back, I stop training (sometimes after 5 minutes, sometimes after just one or two reps). We have done plenty of name calling & watch me training, but this is still happening. I've been figuring that this might be due to his age - will be 14 weeks this weekend, but I'm wondering if this might be permanent ... Is this the Hav style? The floor is so close to their noses so it might be hard for him to not look for crumbs after reps, but I'm hoping he'll start to show more focus on us.
> 
> ...


Your puppy is still very VERY young. It is to be expected that his attention span is short, and that other things attract his interest. Just think about a young child. Do you use a clicker in your training (and have you been taught how to use it correctly)? I've found that having ONE word that means "look at my face" (I say "look!", but it can be anything you want) followed immediately by click, treat, is the fastest way to get that attention. That said, you aren't going to see that kind of attention for a LONG time yet. Most dogs aren't heeling reliably, with attention (as opposed to loose leash walking) until they are well over a year. And that's with LOTS of regular practice.

Also, make sure you are rewarding good attention every few steps in the beginning... make it worth their while!

As far as whether Havs can learn to give good attention? Absolutely! Here's Kodi in Rally. If you listen, you will here that at one point in the serpentine, I have to remind him to "look!" because he started getting interested in something on the floor. Otherwise, this is pretty darned solid attention!


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

krandall said:


> As far as whether Havs can learn to give good attention? Absolutely! Here's Kodi in Rally. If you listen, you will here that at one point in the serpentine, I have to remind him to "look!" because he started getting interested in something on the floor. Otherwise, this is pretty darned solid attention!


Wow, Krandall - that's amazing! :cheer2: How old is Kodi there? Thanks for the reality check. I have to say, I try to stay realistic, but I'm not sure what to expect so knowing ahead of time what is possible at each stage is hugely helpful. And I really think that Rollie is responding amazingly well to training. We'll just keep doing what we're doing.

I really like the idea of "look" vs. "watch me." Much faster. Also, re: the clicker, I haven't had training, but I've done tons of research on it and I'm a clinical psychologist and I'm trained in operant & classical conditioning principals so having a pup of my own is SO exciting b/c I finally get to do this stuff myself (well, with a dog that is, I get to do it with people all the time - not clicker training though - LOL). I'm sure I'll learn a great deal about it as I actually do it though. (and I'm sure I'll have many questions as I go)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kodi had JUST turned two when that video was taken. He's only a month older than that now, and has now completed his AKC RN title (He completed his APDT RL1 title at just 15 months) He earned both titles with the minimum number of trials possible (3 for each) and earned his APDT "Award of Excellence" by earning all scores over 190 out of a possible 210. BUT, remember, he has been in lessons at least twice a week since he was 14 weeks old, and we practice almost every day. (for very short periods of time)

He's my first dog too, though I've trained horses all my life, so like you, I really haven't known what to expect. The trainer I work with has had to keep me from getting frustrated at times. But from what I've been told by the more experienced competitors at our training center, he's definitely on the young side. Most have told me that it has taken them multiple tries to get the qualifying scores needed for each title. 

Hav can be very good at obedience, rally and agility IF you get the right dog. I had a friend who is a very experienced dog trainer come with me to temperament test the puppies in Kodi's litter to make sure I was getting one that would have the right mind set for a performance dog. You want a dog with a strong play drive, bold and extroverted, but with strong desire to please. Good performance dogs tend to be a little more dog than "straight pet" people would want. A "couch potato" dog might be a wonderful pet, but probably doesn't have the drive to be a great performance dog. OTOH, a puppy who is destined to be a great performance dog would probably drive the average pet owner bananas during their first year. They need a LOT of work to keep their busy minds occupied!:biggrin1:

if you are a psychologist, you probably already know that a clicker works better than even a "marker word" because it is processed in a different part of the dog's brain. This makes it more precise IF it is used properly. It is truly astounding what you can teach a dog using a clicker. 

There are several of us on here who rain in rally, obedience and agility, so we'll be waiting and watching to hear how your little cutie is coming along!:whoo:


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## charley_brown (Mar 6, 2011)

I started taking Charley for walks shortly after I got him. I think I just had his first round of shots.. I didnt wait until all the vaccinations were completed. However, I kept him off peoples lawn. We just walked on the side walk and I only let him on OUR lawn... I never had a problem with him getting sick or anything. I would ask your vet to see what he or she thinks. 

My friend, however, DID take his dog to a park and out on other peoples front lawn. The dog ended up getting distemper and had to be put down as a puppy. So I WOULD check into it and see what the vet thinks.


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## charley_brown (Mar 6, 2011)

charley_brown said:


> I started taking Charley for walks shortly after I got him. I think I just had his first round of shots.. I didnt wait until all the vaccinations were completed. However, I kept him off peoples lawn. We just walked on the side walk and I only let him on OUR lawn... I never had a problem with him getting sick or anything. I would ask your vet to see what he or she thinks.
> 
> My friend, however, DID take his dog to a park and out on other peoples front lawn. The dog ended up getting distemper and had to be put down as a puppy. So I WOULD check into it and see what the vet thinks.


I should note that the dog that was put down was NOT finished with all this vaccinations and I dont believe ever received a distemper shot... he was still young and hadnt finished all his shots. So def make sure with the vet


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## Divaskychick (May 18, 2011)

charley_brown said:


> I started taking Charley for walks shortly after I got him. I think I just had his first round of shots.. I didnt wait until all the vaccinations were completed. However, I kept him off peoples lawn. We just walked on the side walk and I only let him on OUR lawn... I never had a problem with him getting sick or anything. I would ask your vet to see what he or she thinks.
> 
> My friend, however, DID take his dog to a park and out on other peoples front lawn. The dog ended up getting distemper and had to be put down as a puppy. So I WOULD check into it and see what the vet thinks.


Horrific.


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

krandall said:


> I have no idea why or when they would be giving a 4th parvo/distemper, other than the one year booster. Havs are known vaccine sensitive dogs and should NOT be over-vaccinated. Here is Jean Dodds' protocol:
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

No problem. Don't get pushed into excess vaccines by your vet's office. A lot of good vets know about, and follow, minimal vaccine routines for vaccine sensitive breeds now. But some places still like to "sell" as many vaccines as they can. If you end up with one of these, find a new vet!

Also, all through your dog's life, make sure vaccines are separated by at least 3-4 weeks to allow their immune system to recover. sometimes it means an extra office charge, but it's well worth it.


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