# Bilateral Medial Patellar Subluxation



## Joellyn (Apr 9, 2009)

Hello All,

I am looking for some input and/or advice on this subject. It seems my little Leela, 14 months old, has this condition. The vet, who is an orthospedic specialist, has rated her right hind leg at 2, her left at 1. Next step is x-rays to confirm his diagnosis and if he is correct, his recommendation is for surgery.

I am sitting here stunned as I'd hope when I took her in for her sporadic limping that it was a bruise or a strained muscle...but instead we are looking at major surgery and 8 weeks in a crate to heal afterward.

So...I guess I am asking for anyone's input on this. I am requesting a referral for a second opinion, that is certain. But if surgery is indicated...have you or anyone you know had a dog go through this? Was it successful? Has this discussion happened on this forum before and if so, could you help me find it?

I will be contacting the breeder once this is confirmed. Hopefully she will stop breeding Leela's parents. Any comforting words you can share would help sooth this pet mommy's very sad heart. 

Thank you,

Joellyn


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I don't know too much about this subject, but I know Linda (Lfung5) had similar problems with Freddie. I am going to call her and tell her to comment on this post for you. She did not chose to do the surgery with Freddie. Instead, she started supplements and he is just fine. My Dugan has luxating patellas, but his are a lower grade and don't seem to bother him at all. I would certainly get a second opinion and start supplements to see if that helps. I think glucosemine is the one that my vet recommended for Dugan. 

I am sorry you have to go through this! Hugs to you and Leela.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I am sorry to hear about Leela. Freddie has luxating patellas. Is that the same thing? I urge you not to take this guys opinion to do surgery. Fred has a 2 on one leg and a 3.5 on the other. The only time it was noticeable, was when he slipped on the tile and tore stuff. My vet told me 2 weeks crate rest. That was years ago and Fred is fine now. He has not had an episode in years. He hikes for miles a day and runs and jumps. My vet cautioned me about surgery happy orthopedic surgeons. I took fred to one of the best surgeons, and he advised me not to do surgery. He told me to mark on the calender each day fred held his leg up. When he has 16 bad days, that's when to do surgery. You can also give chondroitin and glucosamine. That will help strengthen the ligaments arount the knee. Good luck!


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## Joellyn (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes...luxating patellas would be the same thing. 

Thank you both so very much! I have started both my dogs (they have the same parents) on glucosamine chondroitin with yucca (supposedly a natural anti-inflamatory)...and I think we will crate her for a while too. That sounds very good to me.

I like what your surgeon said about marking the calendar. I'll do that too. I think it's been three or four times so far.

If anyone else has experience with this...I would appreciate your input as well.

(starting to feel a little less panicky)


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

My vet told us that both of Pixie's legs have this, and pretty severely. He put her on Cosequin daily for life. As far as surgery, he said don't jump the gun, let's wait and see. That was almost a year ago and so far so good. I have never seen her limping or favoring a leg, but I do notice that I can hear her knees popping when I pick her up. I read somewhere on the forum about a raw diet also being beneficial for this.


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## Joellyn (Apr 9, 2009)

Thank you for weighing in. Can you tell me what Cosequin is? Is that an anti-inflamatory or analgesic?



Pixiesmom said:


> My vet told us that both of Pixie's legs have this, and pretty severely. He put her on Cosequin daily for life. As far as surgery, he said don't jump the gun, let's wait and see. That was almost a year ago and so far so good. I have never seen her limping or favoring a leg, but I do notice that I can hear her knees popping when I pick her up. I read somewhere on the forum about a raw diet also being beneficial for this.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Has she always limped or did something happened to trigger it? Freddie would limp occasionally, but it wasn't until he slipped that it was constant. The 2 week strict crate rest worked wonders! He was only allowed out to potty and I had to carry him! My Freddie was also on the raw diet when this occured and is actually back on it as of last week.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Joellyn, I am so sorry to hear about this. I really like the advice you have been given. I want to say tho, two days ago my furkids were at the groomers getting their nails cut. There was a year old hav puppy there and the groomer told me that the puppy had had knee surgery on both legs. It took only 10 days to recover before it was walking again! I was amazed. The surgeon must have been excellent or it was a different condition?
Anyway, I pray that your baby gets along with no surgery at all, but if it does end up having to have it someday, maybe it won't be too hard. 
I do hope the breeder discontinues the breeding though!


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear leela has luxating patellas. Some of the other forum member here have experience dealing with this. They are graded in four grades with 1 and 2 being the lower end of the scale. I'm surprised your vet is already talking surgery at this point. You can sarch luxatign patellas and find lots of information on it but here are a couple links to get you started. The first is OFA's site and it goes into depth on the four grade levels

http://www.offa.org/patluxgrade.html

The next had interesting information about hapfway down the page on natural ways to treat them

http://www.thewholedog.org/artPatella.html

I hope this helps!

:hug:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Welcome to the forum. You may want to get a second opinion as I have always heard surgery is a last resort and generally with dogs with a grading above 2 on the patellas.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

Joellyn said:


> Thank you for weighing in. Can you tell me what Cosequin is? Is that an anti-inflamatory or analgesic?


http://www.healthypets.com/codschta90co.html

This is what she's on, 1/4 of a tablet for life. She'll actually eat it willingly, too.


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## deejay (Aug 19, 2008)

Please get another opinion. Grades one and two are not bad enough to have your dog go through painful surgery and a long recovery time. We had a toy poodle who had grade four and five. She had her first surgery at eighteen months and her second a year later. They were both sucessful and she played flyball after her recovery time. She was a stubborn little thing and had to have her unoperated leg bandaged so she would use her sore leg. She then would walk on her front legs. She had to have water therapy to build up the muscles in her legs. Altogether a very expensive , for us, and painful surgery for her. Only do it when you have had at least two opinions


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## Joellyn (Apr 9, 2009)

lfung5 said:


> Has she always limped or did something happened to trigger it? Freddie would limp occasionally, but it wasn't until he slipped that it was constant.


Linda - Leela and her big brother Bodhi tried to go out the doggie door at the same time and he kind of body blocked her. That started the limp which is intermittent.

Christy - Thank you for the links! I will be reading those for sure!

Beth - Oh okay...Cosequin is a good form of glusocsamine and chondroitin with some manganese. That might be a better choice than what I am currently giving them as mine as a lot more artificial preservatives in it. Thanks!

DeeJay - I am really hearing you, Amanda and the other ladies and am definitely getting a second opinion. After hearing all of you weigh in...it seems more likely that I will try every other option first before moving to a surgical one. I just had surgery myself for a thumb and it has not been an easy or enjoyable experience for me...so I don't want to put Leela through it unless it is the absolutely right thing to do!

All of you are so very kind. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Cody had one of his knees done this past June and it was a long 10 weeks - although I know someone else on here had the surgery and their dog was up and running around within a few weeks. The surgeon I saw said surgery is usually only done for grade 4-5? Cody was at a 4. I tried the two weeks of complete rest before doing the surgery but his knee continued to go out so that the leg was completely useless and caused him quite a bit of pain.

So far, the surgery seems to be a success. I'm still nervous when he runs and plays but it doesn't seem to bother him at all. The surgeon warned me that he will definitely develop arthritis since there is bone on bone as a result of the surgery. I give him Doctors Foster and Smith "Joint Care 3" (glucosamine, perna mussle, chondroitin & MSM) daily to try and minimize the arthritis.

I'd opt for trying the two weeks of not using the leg at all to see if that works. The surgeon explained that some additional damage could be done to the knee but that it was worth the time & $.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Here's the thread I started on Cody's surgery http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=8914

I'll see if I can find the other one I mentioned...


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

And here's the other thread I mentioned where the dog was active within a few weeks. I was too afraid I'd have to pay for a 2nd surgery if I didn't follow the doctor's instructions to a tee so Cody's return to normal activity was much slower.

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=10184


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Seems like the dog door pushing and shoving incident, may have caused the problem. A dog with healthy patellas, probably would be fine. She might just need several day off her feet with supplements. I bet she'll be good as new very soon! Why is it that they all want to be the first one out the dog door? My guys so the same thing


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## Joellyn (Apr 9, 2009)

Thank you, thank you thank all for your support. Truly it is easing my mind and maybe I'll sleep better tonight. She's resting. I've ordered Cosequin, will be getting a second opinion and may even take her to a vet that specializes in Chinese medicine if I feel the need. We're not going to rush into surgery now. You've all helped Leela and me so very much. Bless you!:amen:


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

I have to agree with everybody else. Gryff has a luxating patella on one leg and the vet recommending holding off since it doesn't seem to bother him. He's on glucosomine for life, but I have to admit that i'm a bad mommy and I often forget to give it to him. I need to get better about that.


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

This is very interesting. We go on Wednesday for a surgery consult for Gabe. His started when he and Bella collided but the Vet thinks this has been happening for him for some time as it is a genetic problem with small breeds. He spent two days in the crate or getting carried with no improvement. His knee goes in and out many times a day.


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## kao9016 (Feb 5, 2008)

I have a 2 year old female Havanese who also has mild (level 1-2) luxating patellas in her hind legs that were confirmed by X-ray when she was about 9 months old. She shows no signs of discomfort at all. When she runs, I notice a slight "skip" sometimes but no limping. My vet advised us to give her Glucosamine and to make sure she stays a healthy weight. I also notice that Riley cannot jump as high as other dogs, and prefers to jump off the couch onto a carpet rather than a hard floor. 

It is scary when your vet tells you that something's wrong with your dog's legs, but it really does not seem to have affected Riley much, and I can only hope it continues to remain stable!!


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## Joellyn (Apr 9, 2009)

Kari -Thank you for that reassurance. Leela will go to a board certified orthopedic specialist tomorrow and we'll take it from there. I've been making her rest in her crate as much as possible and have stopped her daily walks until we see him...and she's (and Bodhi too) now on glucosamine/chondroitin with yucca and bosewellia. I hope that will be enough as I really don't want her to got through a surgery.

Hers is really more of a skip now and then too more than a limp. I am hopeful and will post after the specialist sees her tomorrow.


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## Joellyn (Apr 9, 2009)

Brought Leela to the specialist today. While she has bilateral medial subluxation of both knees, he says that is not the problem and that at grades 2 and 1 are not really significant. What she does have though is a torn ACL. He is advising surgery, a procedure called a TPLO. *sigh*

Anyone have any experience with that? Perhaps I should post a separate post on this topic now.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I guess that good news???? I know freddie tore something. I almost think it was his ACL. He slipped on the tile while playing with my ex husbands dog. Boy did he scream and cry! All I know is it healed and he's has been fine since then. He was on the strictest crate rest for 2 weeks. Only allowed to stand to do his business, then right back in the crate. I also carried him outside. He was not allowed to walk at all. They told me if i didn't keep him in for the 14 days, he would need surgery. He seemed better after about 10 day, but my vet warned me not to take him out before the 14 days. I hope this works for Leela.

Here's the thread:
http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=2492&highlight=freddie&page=5

I just reread it and now I remember it really took almost the entire 2 weeks for him to heal. I think he was better a couple days before the 14, but I kept him in. I think the injury was caused by him having the luxating patellas, but he did tear something.


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## amandam (Apr 21, 2009)

*Great info! Now going through ordeal...*

I have been an infrequent poster but knew this site was full of good info.
My rescue, Cody has acclimated really well to our family and I took him to the vet last week for the "avoiding one of his back paws". Same deal. Gave him anti-inflammatory and pain pill and advised us to come back if it didn't get better. If anything it's worse.

Ack. Will have to look up reputable specialist. Sigh.


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