# My Recipe for Feeding Raw



## DanielBMe

Just thought I'd share my recipe for feeding my guys a raw diet. It can be a little intimidating for the first timers. For the most part I gathered this from various websites and put it together in a recipe I am comfortable with. I may enhance this as I go along and learn more but for now it appears ideal for my guys.

I recently found a new place where I get all my food http://www.heronviewrawandnatural.com/products.htm. They are located in Whitby and offer a wide variety of meats and fantastic prices. I go there and stock up for the month.

So let's begin.

*Meat (Muscle Meat)*
I primarily use ground beef, ground chicken, ground lamb and ground turkey. Organic if I can find it. Organic is more expensive but I figured it's worth it. Also use normal fat if you can find it rather than extra lean. For chicken dark meat is more nutritious than white. I try to use both. You can buy chicken drumsticks and cut the meat off. I use ground meat because it's easier to mix all the ingredients with. If you get ground beef or chicken with bone in then skip the supplement for Calcium.
Bison and Venison are good to use as well but due to cost I use them sparingly.

I've also read that for the first 2 weeks let you dog eat as much as it wants by putting out a whole load of meat. Apparently your dog will adjust itself and then only consume what it needs. To be honest I haven't tried this as I'm a little worried I'll end up with two Oompa Loompas.

*Organ/Offal Meat*
You will need to add approx 10% organ meat to the raw meat above. You can feed organ meat in a larger quantity once or twice a week or in smaller amounts with each meal. It's easier for me to add it in each meal but on occasion I may just buy Urban Carnivore Offal Patties and feed about 4oz each a week. Start slowly, feeding too much the first time can give your dog the runs.
Nutrient dense so feed lightly.
Heart, Liver and Kidney. Mostly heart, then some liver and a touch of kidney (I don't always add kidney).
Use a larger portion of heart than liver. Heart is high in Taurine. Too much liver is not good.

*Vegetables *
You will want to add aprox 15% to the raw meat. I wouldn't go higher than 15%. 10-15% is a good range. Some people believe vegetables are not necessary.
I try to usually use 5 different vegetables at once. I try to mix in green with dark colours. As a general rule the darker the colour the more nutritious it is. For ex if using dandelion leaves you can get red dandelion leaves. Take it easy on beets and parsley. 
You will need to put these into a food processor and make into a pulp. Dogs cannot digest vegetables unless they are pulped up (talking raw not cooked) otherwise what goes in goes out pretty much the same. I usually pulp enough to add to about 40lbs of meat. I just put what I didn't need into the freezer and take it out as needed. On the odd occassion I might also add an apple and if blueberries are cheap I'll had some of those too.

*Use any of the following vegetables. * 
asparagus 
beets 
broccoli 
Brussels sprouts 
cabbage 
carrots 
cauliflower 
celery 
collard 
corn 
dandelion leaves 
kale 
kohlrabi 
lettuce
okra 
parsley 
parsnips 
peas (& pods) 
pumpkin 
rutabagas 
sprouts 
squash 
sweet potatoes 
Swiss chard 
turnips 
zucchini

*Putting on the Mix*
When putting this all together keep in mind that the organ meat should be 10% of the raw meat and the vegetables should be 15% of the total meat volume. So, to make an 8 ounce patty, I use 7 ounces of meat and one ounce of vegetables. Of the 7oz of meat, 6.3oz is raw meat, 0.7oz is organ meat, and 1oz is vegetable matter. 7oz total meat x 10% = 0.7oz organ meat. 7oz - 0.7oz = 6.3oz meat. 7oz total meat x 15% = 1.05oz vegetable matter.

I've been using this mix since beginning of 2008 and my dogs are doing great. Stools, hair, and skin look good.

When making a batch I make 4lb batches portioned into somewhere around 3.75 oz patties. I don't worry about making all the portions exact. Some days my guys get more some days less. I usuallly make about 20lbs in one day and it lasts me over a month or so. I will buy 8lbs chicken, 6lbs of turkey and 6lbs of beef.

*4lbs makes approx 27 patties at 3.75oz each	* 
Batch below is without organ meat mixed in and instead feeding once or twice a week. 
Patties -----------------------Per Patty------------4lbs of meat 
Meat -------------------------2.37oz---------------64oz 
Veggie Mix---------------------0.30oz----------------8oz 
Cottage Cheese ---------------0.60oz---------------16oz 
Fish Oil - tsp ------------------0.25------------------7 
Nupro - spoonful ---------------1--------------------27 
Alfalfa - tsp -------------------0.25------------------6 
Kelp - tsp ---------------------0.25------------------6 
Bonemeal - tbsp - non bone meats---1----------------25 
Apple Cider Vinegar ---sprinkle a few tbsp over the batch and mix in 
Just a note about supplements. You don't need to use all the supplements at once. I've started making batches with different supplements, for ex make one 4lb batch with Nupro and the fish oil. Then the next batch with Kelp, Alfalfa and fish oil. Maybe just the Feed-sentials. You could even make a number of batches using the Nupro and fish oil, then when you have run out of the Nupro then just use the Alfalfa, Kelp and fish oil. The point is to mix things up for a variety!

The point is to give a balance over time. It doesn't have to be with every meal.

Mix well then portion into approx 3.75oz patties and wrap in plastic wrap then into a freezer bag.

Each portion needs about 24 hrs to defrost. As well I usually mix in about 3-5 tbsp of boiled or hot water to the mix when feeding. Adding the water creates a little bit of gravy and warms up the food. Also when feeding chicken necks I usually add a good sprinkle of Nupro or Alfalfa leaves or kelp for flavour. My guys love it!

*Update:*
I'm now adding a package of low fat cottage cheese and 1lb cooked lentils to each 4lb batch as well. I'll make one 4lb batch as per above with cottage cheese, then another batch but with the lentils. Lentils are a good source of protein and cuts down a bit on meat. My guys are doing well on this mix.

That's it! That's pretty much one meal. For breakfast I give them one patty each and sometimes throw in half a baby carrot at the end to freshen their breath. Twice a week in the evenings I give them half a patty each and 1-2 chicken necks each or simply 1 patty each and one chicken neck each. I also buy Venison, Bison and Elk premade patties from Carnivore to give my guys more variety. I'll give my guys 1/2 a pattie each every week or two and mix in some Nupro. As mentioned earlier I'm also buying the Carnivore Offal patties and feed half a patty each once a week now instead of mixing the organ meat into the mix above. With the Offal I found it better to take one 8oz offal pattie and mix a little into their food over the course of two days rather than giving it to them as a full meal. It's so rich that it could cause loose stools.

Also once or twice a week my guys will get beef necks for recreational chewing. These have quite a bit of meat on them so the beef necks would replace their dinner.

Hope that helps anyone considering feeding raw. There are endless options, just find something you are comfortable with and that your dogs enjoy.

*Update: October 21, 2009*
I stopped with the lentils. Just going back to a more basic recipe.
I also swapped in a supplement called Feed-sentials http://www.stalworthkennels.com/feed-sentials.htm instead of the Nupro. It appears my guys may have a beef allergy and the Nupro uses beef liver in it. I may still switch between Nupro and Feed-sentials throughtout the year though once I get a better handle on Bogart's allergies.

*Updated: Feb 27, 2010*
After trying the various supplements such as Nupro and Feed-sentials and trying a few other, I really didn't see any improvements from what I had originally started with. So with that in mind, I decided to stop with the supplements and only add in some Alfalfa and Kelp with shot of Salmon oil.
Also found out that my Pet Food store sells some packaged raw pulped veggies, 3lbs for $9.99. I probably spend just as much with the veggies I buy at the store and always have way too much left and no room in my freezer to store so I am now just going to use the packaged raw veggies mix and may mix in an extra veggie once in awhile such as red pepper.

Here's my new recipe which I will be using from now on.

I usually buy 12lbs each of chicken, turkey, lamb, and salmon.

For a 12lb batch of lamb or salmon - making patties between 3.75-3.9oz.
12lbs of meat - no offal
26oz of veggie mix
10tsp alfalfa
10tsp kelp

For a 12lb batch of chicken or turkey- making patties between 3.75-3.9oz.
12lbs of meat - no offal but does contain ground bone.
20oz of chicken hearts and liver
30oz of veggie mix
10tsp alfalfa
10tsp kelp

With each breakfast I give each of my Havs one pump of Salmon Oil with their meal - only with breakfast.

Then once a week, usually Monday, I mix in 2oz of offal to each dinner - this is when feeding lamb or salmon. My chicken and turkey patties have offal already mixed in.

Twice a week I will give each half a patty for dinner with 2 or 3 chicken necks each.

That's pretty much it. Of course once in awhile I'll mix in an egg or cottage cheese but the above is pretty much my standard meal.


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## Missy

Wow, what a great resource Daniel.


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## DanielBMe

It seems like a lot of work but it's not really. Once you make the vegetable pulp, you don't have to worry about it for a month. The patty's I make every 2 weeks. I make 8lbs at a time. I'd make more but then I'd have no room in my freezer for my stuff.

It takes a few hours on a weekend to do if the vegetable pulp is already made.


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## JanB

Wow, Daniel you really put a lot of thought and work into this. Great recipe!

Do you find it's cheaper than, say, the NV raw medallions?


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## DanielBMe

Well I previously used Tollden Farms meat patties. It's definitely cheaper by half I'd say. I was previously spending about $125 or so a month. Then again I do have two dogs.


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## Melissa Miller

I hope this is better than the RAW foods that are solds. I put my guys on the RAW diet.. but on the frozen dog food kind.. and it ruined their coats. RUINED. Stogie has just recovered. SO if anyone goes Raw. just watch their coat and make sure you have the right nutrients. My advice..


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## Beamer

Melissa,

Wha brand of raw were you feeding your guys?

Ryan


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## Melissa Miller

Northwest Naturals. 
Here is a link 
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Northwest-Naturals-Raw-Dog-Food/167001.aspx

I DO NOT recommend this. If you are cooking yourself.. ok.. just make sure they are getting all the nutrients and oils they need. But this food was AWFUL for my dogs. DRY brittle coats.. it got better as soon as I stopped the food. Stogies coat is almost back to normal. The mats etc.. were awful.. and they got fat. Even feeding less than recommended.

I also know breeders who said certain raw diets destroyed their dogs coats.. so just be careful.. esp. if you have a show dog.


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## JanB

Melissa Miller said:


> Northwest Naturals.
> Here is a link
> http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Northwest-Naturals-Raw-Dog-Food/167001.aspx
> 
> I DO NOT recommend this. If you are cooking yourself.. ok.. just make sure they are getting all the nutrients and oils they need. But this food was AWFUL for my dogs. DRY brittle coats.. it got better as soon as I stopped the food. Stogies coat is almost back to normal. The mats etc.. were awful.. and they got fat. Even feeding less than recommended.
> 
> I also know breeders who said certain raw diets destroyed their dogs coats.. so just be careful.. esp. if you have a show dog.


Melissa, do you know how that compares to the NV medallions? That is what the breeder fed Tucker and I've been using it with Tessa for several months, even before we got Tucker. I would hate to be giving them something that was harmful and am open to anything.

What do you feed them now?


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## Melissa Miller

Jan... if you are talking about Natures Variety Freeze dried medallions.. that you keep in the pantry.. I feed those to my dogs STILL. 

Right now I give them Fromms Duck & pot. ) with the freeze dried stuff sprinkled on top in the mornings. Then in evenings.. the Fromm with this great can food I found. Its not a made to be a solo food.. more of a supplement. So its meant to go with dry food. I give them a spoon full of the can on top of their dry food in the evening. So one can lasts a while. That gives them variety. Also in the morning, when they get the food w/ NV freeze dried stuff.. I put one squirt of Salmon oil. Thats done wonders. 

If you are talking about frozen raw medallions... I have never used them. But I LOVE Natures Variety. So If you notice no problems.. then I'm sure its ok. But just keep an eye out. On the raw food.. my dogs were not pooping much and they were getting chunky.. and just not normal. I can't explain it.


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## JanB

I buy the NV raw frozen medallions. I haven't seen the freeze dried around here. I have heard of Fromms but it's not sold around here.

I have noticed the poops are smaller and drier now that they are solely on the raw. I just thought it was because the food was more bioavailable so less waste? But I could be mistaken!

The salmon oil is probably wonderful for their coat. Do you have a name for the supplemental can food?


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## Beamer

Jan, The poops are smaller for the reason you said above. (there is just not much waste produced from the raw) At first I was only feeding Beamer raw food and treats, and his poop was so small, it was funny.. like peanuts.. lol

But now we give him regular treats and other junk, so the poops are a bit larger than before, but still wayyyy smaller then kibble poo.. 

I gave Beamer salmon oil during the winter when it was very dry out.. but now that its summer and not dry, but humid, his coat is fine and does not need the oil.


Ryan


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## JanB

Beamer said:


> Jan, The poops are smaller for the reason you said above. (there is just not much waste produced from the raw) At first I was only feeding Beamer raw food and treats, and his poop was so small, it was funny.. like peanuts.. lol
> 
> But now we give him regular treats and other junk, so the poops are a bit larger than before, but still wayyyy smaller then kibble poo..
> 
> I gave Beamer salmon oil during the winter when it was very dry out.. but now that its summer and not dry, but humid, his coat is fine and does not need the oil.
> 
> Ryan


peanuts...haha, good description.  So far Tessa's hair is like silk but I was giving her EVO kibble 1X/day until recently. Now she and Tucker both are on Nv solely and I have seen a big change in the poop. I will be watching her coat for changes.


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## Cheryl

Wow, you guys are awesome. I "cook" for my Havs: kibble mixed with a little bit of warm water and a tablespoon of cottage cheese stirred in. They love it! But I think it is a good thing that they do not read this forum. For special occasions, I add cooked veggies from our dinner and serve on a plate. 

They think they are spoiled. Please do not tell them otherwise!


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## DanielBMe

Definitely my guys coats are velvety soft. I would have to say my recipe is better than the frozen stuff since it's fresh and I know exactly what I am putting into it. 

When I had them on Tollden Farms Raw, their coats were great as well. But I do see a difference since I've been making my own food.


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## LuvCicero

Daniel, what fruits do you feed your Havs? Cicero loves apples and peaches and he get a little for a snack, but how much CAN they eat?


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## DanielBMe

To be honest I don't really give them any fruits. Once in awhile I might give them some apple to chew. Sometimes some blueberries. It's usually when I'm eating some that I'll drop some in their bowls. I wouldn't give more than a quarter of an apple at a time, possible half of a small one. My guys usually snack on carrots. They love them.


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## LuvCicero

Daniel, thanks for the quick reply. Cicero does love most all fruits and gets a little when I'm eating it also. I tried carrots and end up with orange confetti to clean up.  Raw bones...raw foods...this boy just pukes!!!


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## DanielBMe

Keep in mind that it's normal for a dog to puke when they first eat raw bones. My guys pucked the first few nights in the middle of the night. What happens is they get overly excited when eating the bones and take bigger bites than they can digest in the beginning. So up it comes. After about the 3rd day they were perfectly fine. 

How much carrots did you give? I only give my guys one baby carrot with their meal. Something to chew since the raw patties they kinda just gulp down.


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## Beamer

Daniel,

You should produce and market your own raw food man.. I'm telling you, Beamer LOVED it... He was making little noises while eating it.. like the kind of excited noises he makes when he sees another dog coming.

I'd buy it!

Ryan


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## DanielBMe

Ryan, not sure if you are interested but maybe we can make a big batch together? We could make like 16lb each and split the cost. You may want to buy the supplements though. They range from $10-$15 but last you from 6-12months. 

Let me know if you are interested. I have the food processor.


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## LuvCicero

Daniel, I have tried over and over giving only one baby carrot to Cicero and he chews and spits it out...so orange confetti to clean up. He is so picky about his foods and that is the only negitive thing about this guy. Will smell and walk away from most everything...except what we cook and eat.

You might had better think about what Ryan said -- you have a business there!!!!!


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## Beamer

Beamer also does the carrot crunch, chew and spit out thing.. lol.. he also spits out popcorn..
Although he did eat some green pepers yesterday! lol

Ryan


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## Beamer

Daniel,

Ok, so 16lbs each? Thats roughly 5 NV bags worth, which would cost me around $85 including tax. Without the suppliments, how much would 16lbs cost to make?

Ryan


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## DanielBMe

Well if you think of the meat. Ground beef can be found for $2lb. So let's say you grab 8lbs that's $16 just for the meat. Add in another $2 for organ meat. So that's $18 or $36 for the month. Now if we split the cost of the vegetables, add a few more dollars. Factor in the supplements spread over 6-12 months, I'm guessing you hit approx $45 for the month. I had to factor in the cost of the food processor which I got on sale for $50. But I'll make up for it after a 2months. 

Obviously costs escalate a bit if you get organic beef. Ground Turkey and Chicken cost more. YOu have to find a place where it's on sale or cheap. I'm thinking of driving up to Maple Lodge Farms. They are a factory outlet store so prices are cheap. They also sell chicken backs but not necks.


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## DanielBMe

I'm actually going to head down to St Lawrence Market today to check out the chicken necks. See if I can get a 10lb bag. I'm also going to drive to Maple Lodge Farms to check out the prices.


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## DanielBMe

Hey Ryan,

I found this site in Whitby. The prices and what they carry are fantastic! http://www.heronviewrawandnatural.com/products.htm.

I just found my supplier for everything. This will cut down my cost even more! I think I may drive out there tomorrow or on the weekend. Since I'm off till Tuesday, might as well make some more batches. The also sell a supplement that basically contains all the supplements I add but with more Feed-Sentials for K-9.

So let me know if you are interested.


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## Beamer

Hmm, those prices are great! I see they have Meaty bones at 50 cents per pound.. lol... Thats a HUGE savings from the healthy paws stuff.. I wonder what rmb they have in stock?
Ryan


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## DanielBMe

The one think that I'm not sure about is if it's fresh or frozen. If they are frozen packages then it doesn't do me any good. I read on thier page about them adding new freezers and it got me thinking. You can't defrost then refreeze raw meat. I sent them an email. We'll see what they say. 

I'm guessing the RMB are beef.


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## DanielBMe

Since there are a few new raw feeders I thought I'd bump this thread.


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## jabellar

DanielBMe said:


> Ryan, not sure if you are interested but maybe we can make a big batch together? We could make like 16lb each and split the cost. You may want to buy the supplements though. They range from $10-$15 but last you from 6-12months.
> 
> Let me know if you are interested. I have the food processor.


Will you deliver to NYC???  Seriously...


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## DanielBMe

LOL not sure how you would ship frozen food. Actually I don't think you would even be allowed to ship food across the border.


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## Beamer

You know what this means Daniel, time to start a business!!
Shipping frozen goods across border should not be a problem.. as long as its not on the endangered species list... lol

Ryan


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## jabellar

Beamer said:


> You know what this means Daniel, time to start a business!!
> Shipping frozen goods across border should not be a problem.. as long as its not on the endangered species list... lol
> 
> Ryan


If you do start a dog food catering business - sign me up as your first customer!


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## Posh's Mom

You can ship frozen food across the border. I plan to send my brother frozen stuff to Iraq. Don't ask...


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## DanielBMe

Just modified the section talking about supplements.


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## Jane

Hi Daniel,

I just noticed from your first post in this thread that you mentioned to take it easy on parsley. I am just wondering why - does it cause problems?

I was feeding my guys a sprig of parsley each night with dinner for a week (to combat staining and promote fresher breath!), but stopped because Lincoln threw up a couple of times. So I was just curious about what info you had about parsley.

Thanks!


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## DanielBMe

Well from what I've read it to only use small amounts of parsley as it is a natural diuretic. Problem is I've never read what exactly is a small amount lol 

I guess a small sprig with their dinner should be ok.


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## DanielBMe

Just made a few updates and cleaned it up a bit.


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## marjrc

Daniel, what do you do to measure all these ingdts.? You must have a scale, right? I make a U-Stew mix of raw and just have to measure the powder out, some water and then my meat. Figuring out the portions, though, I have to weigh plops of the raw mixture on my very cheap kitchen scale. 

I read .5882 kg., or 4 oz here and there in your recipe. Do you have an electronic scale? 

When I make a batch of raw for the boys, it makes a mess and I'm only measuring out a handful of ingdts! lol Food processor, measuring cups, spoons, bowls, scale bowl, etc... 

I'd like to picture how you prepare your monthly batch. Any pics you can share?? :biggrin1:


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## DanielBMe

Yup I have a small electronic scale. Bought one dirt cheap. 

Actually my kitchen isn't really a big mess when I make a batch. I have a big bowl and just throw in the meat, vegetable pulp and supplements. Mix it all up, then make the portions using the scale and put the portions onto 2 baking sheets. Once they are full, I wrap up the portions in cling wrap and then into the freezer. Then do my next batch til I've done about 20lbs. 

I have a spreadsheet which I've printed out that tells me how much of each item to put in depending on how much I make. The spreadsheet has columns for 2lb, 4lb and 6lbs. So if I make 6lbs, just go down that column to the ingredient and add in the qty required. Easy Peasy 

Now making the pulped vegetables, well that's another story. That makes a HUGE mess. Filling up my sink with water to wash them, then slowly put them through the food processor. I end up with a mess on my counter and some of my kitchen walls lol. I never make the meat mix and the vegetables in one day. Way too much work. I usually make enough vegetables to last for about 40lbs of meat. So I will make 20lbs once. Then when that runs out I'll make my next 20lbs. Just grab the vegetable pulp out of the freezer and mix in. Then a couple of weeks later I'll make another batch of vegetable pulp. I probably make vegetable pulp every 3 months or so.


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## marjrc

You're such a guy! Use a spreadsheet, and voila! LOL I should know, hubby Ralph would do the same thing! :biggrin1: If I ever end up making batches for every day eating, then I'll get him to figure that out for me. :suspicious: 

I also freeze what I call "plops" on lined cookie sheets and bag them once frozen. 

Well, I see you have it down pat. After all, you've been doing this for, what? A year? It's great to see and hear how well Bogart and Brando are doing with this healthy diet.

Btw........ we need new pics added to their thread, Daniel. It's been too long!


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## lcy_pt

Hey Daniel...thanks so much for updating this recipe. Love how you broke everything done into an easy to follow recipe as well. 

Harley & Seymour are now almost 7 months old and it's time to get serious about switching them to a raw diet. They're on Orijen right now....a good kibble as we know, however....time to move on to the next step :biggrin1:


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## DanielBMe

That was quick! I just updated it like 2min ago. I do try to keep it updated as I change or add things as it's a constant learning process for me. 

So far so good. Guys are doing great.


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## lcy_pt

A quick question....by adding the cottage cheese or lentils, do you find that the patties don't stick together quite as well? Not like you're tossing them onto the BBQ or anything  but to hold their shape for storing.


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## DanielBMe

Well the cottage cheese doesn't make a difference but the lentils do. I find that the patties still form well, but the lentils have more of a tendency to fall off when trying to make the patties. But the mixture is sufficiently wet enough to hold most of it. I cook the lentils for about an hour.


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## norac

Thanks Daniel for bumping the thread and posting the details of your feeding. And adding the link to Heronview as well. I have a Golden now that is raw fed (7 yrs now totally raw and 3 yrs before that of some raw) and have been feeding a combo of Tollden farms and Healthy Paws since moving to ON and wanted to find a supplier of more basic ingredients. It would be a bit of a hike but I have a freezer that could store several months' worth of food. Thanks again!


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## DanielBMe

I was also buying Tollden Farms but just found it too pricey. Plus I noticed that quite a few times the patties seem to have freezer burn which I wasn't too happy about.

From TO it takes me about 30min to get to Heronview. I wish I had a freezer! I only have a fridge so you can imagine how full my freezer gets. I usually buy about 20lbs at once. Bottom half is all dog food and the top half human.


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## DanielBMe

Just updated my recipe. Stopped with the lentils and went back to the Feed-sentials supplement.


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## Metchosin

This is excellent advice. I'm loving it.
My question is...if you're feeding raw...what about the veggies??? Are they raw, too? Thanks.
Sharon


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## DanielBMe

Yes the vegetables are raw. They have to be pulped though for your dog to digest them otherwise they just pass thru their system.


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## DanielBMe

Updated my recipe. See bottom of 1st page post.


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## Metchosin

Daniel, thank you for keeping this going. It's a great resource for everyone, even people like me who make a cooked patty. I am adding kelp, salmon oil and different veggies at each meal, so I really appreciate your lists. And, I like to be reminded of things that I don't tend to have in my fridge, like cottage cheese.
It's great that it's all in that first post so it's so easy to print off. Much appreciated!


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## DanielBMe

I am to please...my Havs


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## marjrc

Daniel, what do you, or anyone else, think about adding quinoa to the food as a great source of plant protein? It's a complete protein and compared to a steak, but I don't see many companies using it... not that I trust dog food companies to make the best choices, but I'm still curious. With 'liver dogs' or those that can't eat a high level of meat protein, this may be a good choice... ??


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## Mystikitten

I have been raw feeding for years now, but mostly it was for my ferrets who get nothing but meat and a weekly egg yolk, olive oil, and offal blend and more recently for my outside dog (a chow pit mix) whose diet basically consists of meaty bones (usually chicken leg/thigh quarters), offal once a week, and whatever leftovers I have as far as veggies or grains go.

I just got my Havanese (about 2 days ago) and I want to do everything just right for him. He is almost a year old, so I believe that he is beyond the puppy stage and needs to be fed as an adult, but if I'm wrong somebody please correct me.

I am looking at the following and I have a few questions about it.



DanielBMe said:


> For a 12lb batch of lamb or salmon - making patties between 3.75-3.9oz.
> 12lbs of meat - no offal
> 26oz of veggie mix
> 10tsp alfalfa
> 10tsp kelp
> 
> For a 12lb batch of chicken or turkey- making patties between 3.75-3.9oz.
> 12lbs of meat - no offal but does contain ground bone.
> 20oz of chicken hearts and liver
> 30oz of veggie mix
> 10tsp alfalfa
> 10tsp kelp
> 
> With each breakfast I give each of my Havs one pump of Salmon Oil with their meal - only with breakfast.
> 
> Twice a week I will give each half a patty for dinner with 2 or 3 chicken necks each.
> 
> .


For one, where do you get the kelp, alfalfa, and salmon oil and what strength are they (I know for people supplements come in different strengths, I don't know if the same holds true for dogs)? For another, I notice that you have added bones in your chicken mix, but not in the lamb mix. On another thread Daniel suggested feeding the same flavor for six weeks before rotating to the next so I was wondering about the meat to bone ratio implied there, or does the six week rotation only apply in the initial stages while you are checking for food allergies?

I have a (so far) very inactive 12lb Have, so I was thinking about giving him one 3oz patty made with this model (with offal added, but no bone) for one meal and a chicken wing for his other as I know that crunching bones helps to keep his teeth clean. Since half of his food will be pure meat and bone, do you think I should adjust the amounts of any of the other ingredients (offal or supplements) in the patties to offset this? And since I only plan to feed the patties once a day, should I add the oil into the mix or pour it over the top?

Another question is about the veggie mix... I would like to make up a large batch of it and use it to mix in with several different meats. Are there any particular vegetables that would be better for this seeing as I don't know what if anything he is allergic to? If he has a reaction I would like to be able to know what is causing it, so I guess what I'm asking is whether there are any veggies that are more or less 'hypoallergenic' than others, lol. Other than a possible allergy factor, is there any reason to use a lot of a couple of vegetables rather than just a handful of a dozen or so different ones?

Ok that's enough of a book for my first post, lol. You guys are a wealth of information about my new puppy and I can't wait until I've had the time to read it all.

Mystikitten


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## TrishK

Daniel, 
This is awesome info, but I wonder, if dogs are supposed to be carnivores then why the vegetables in the mix or the cottage cheese for that matter?


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## davetgabby

Dogs are not true carnivores,. cat's are. Not sure if Daniel is still around Trish.


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## TrishK

Thank you Dave


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