# Getting a fence



## SPLAbby (Oct 11, 2014)

Has there been a thread or sticky about getting a fence. I couldn't find one using search.

Phew! Pets are expensive! (not complaining)
Vet today for neutering.

Been in house for less than year. Getting estimates for removing some dead trees before a fence will limit access to back yard.

Toys! Toys! Toys!

And the fence!​Is one kind of fence any better than another for a small dog? How high can a Hav jump?

I have been asking friends this and get different answers. Some recommend chain link so the dog can see out and not feel trapped. And put a layer of gravel under the fence. They say he won't dig through the gravel to get out.

Any suggestions?

Thank!
Jeff


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I wouldn't worry too much about height. Any fence over four ft high should be fine. Dogs still should be supervised at all times when outside. What ever makes the most sense economically. Inspect on a regular basis for any digging attempts. , not only your dog but possible attempts from outside in.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about height. Any fence over four ft high should be fine. Dogs still should be supervised at all times when outside. What ever makes the most sense economically. Inspect on a regular basis for any digging attempts. , not only your dog but possible attempts from outside in.


Yes, the big thing to remember is that almost everywhere in North America we are now faced with coyotes. They can get over even 6-7 foot fences unless there are coyote rollers on the top. (Which add a lot to the cost of the fence!) bobcats, cougars and hawks can also be potential problems depending on where you live. So it's really important to keep an eye on small dogs, even in a fenced yard.

That said, we chose vinyl picket fencing for our "dog yard" (in our case, the back yard) this is very pretty, and maintenance free, but FAR from inexpensive. It was about $7,000 to fence our yard. This is what the PVC picket fence looks like. We've been very happy with it!


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

Beautiful fence, yard, and landscaping, Karen!


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## Adorable_Zeke (May 31, 2014)

Our fence is the same as krandall/Karen's and it works really well. Zeke can happily see out to watch whatever activity or neighbors may be going on. The gaps in the pickets are not a risk for him now that he is fully grown, but have proven to be very beneficial for the squirrels and rabbits to use for a fast escape when Zeke sees them and chases them out of the yard.

Our one issue due to changing elevation in the yard and dips was a few spots had more of a gap at the bottom that we couldn't avoid while keeping the fence level and looking good. I didn't want to try to build up the earth there (lazy) or create some creative rock barriers (tightwad), so we used these http://digdefence.com which have been great and we have not yet had Zeke try to dig out or get out.

As Dave said though, we don't let him stay out there alone to play, so that helps with the not digging and escaping too I suppose.


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## SPLAbby (Oct 11, 2014)

I LOVE the white picket fence. We aren't fencing the entire backyard, partially not to interrupt the deer routes and partially to zone dog space and visitor space. We have to take out 6 huge trees thanks to bugs from China. With the trees gone, we will have to watch closely for hawks.

It is obvious that Benjy loves to be outside. He is happy to sit on the porch and watch cars go by. But he so enjoys an all-out run. A fence will be great for him. But he gets going pretty fast in the house.


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## SPLAbby (Oct 11, 2014)

Adorable_Zeke said:


> Our one issue due to changing elevation in the yard and dips was a few spots had more of a gap at the bottom that we couldn't avoid while keeping the fence level and looking good. I didn't want to try to build up the earth there (lazy) or create some creative rock barriers (tightwad), so we used these http://digdefence.com which have been great and we have not yet had Zeke try to dig out or get out.


I bookmarked the digdefence site. It looks wonderful. Part of the fence will be on sloping or uneven ground. Something like this is imperative. I have asked around for a product to put under fences to in effect extend the fence down over gaps and into the ground. People look at me and roll their eyes. That is where the gravel suggestion came in. Thanks!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Adorable_Zeke said:


> Our fence is the same as krandall/Karen's and it works really well. Zeke can happily see out to watch whatever activity or neighbors may be going on. The gaps in the pickets are not a risk for him now that he is fully grown, but have proven to be very beneficial for the squirrels and rabbits to use for a fast escape when Zeke sees them and chases them out of the yard.
> 
> Our one issue due to changing elevation in the yard and dips was a few spots had more of a gap at the bottom that we couldn't avoid while keeping the fence level and looking good. I didn't want to try to build up the earth there (lazy) or create some creative rock barriers (tightwad), so we used these http://digdefence.com which have been great and we have not yet had Zeke try to dig out or get out.
> 
> As Dave said though, we don't let him stay out there alone to play, so that helps with the not digging and escaping too I suppose.


What a cool idea! Our back yard is flat enough that it wasn't an issue, but that definitely can be a problem with almost any type of fencing on uneven ground. Great product! I'd use the 2" spacing for Havanese puppies though... Pixel walked though the baby gates we bought with 2 1/2" spacing for a LONG time. I suspect that she could even get through that spacing now if she really tried. We solved the baby gate problem with sheets of plexiglas!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SPLAbby said:


> I LOVE the white picket fence. We aren't fencing the entire backyard, partially not to interrupt the deer routes and partially to zone dog space and visitor space. We have to take out 6 huge trees thanks to bugs from China. With the trees gone, we will have to watch closely for hawks.
> 
> It is obvious that Benjy loves to be outside. He is happy to sit on the porch and watch cars go by. But he so enjoys an all-out run. A fence will be great for him. But he gets going pretty fast in the house.


Oh, we didn't fence NEAR our whole property. Part of it is horse paddocks, so fenced, but not in a way that it's very Havanese-safe. We do have plastic chicken fence up on some of that in places where they like to slip through along the driveway. The rest of our property is open to wildlife. The back yard is both dog area and guest area, as many of our friends bring dogs with them. It also encompasses most of the perennial beds, which keeps the XO%& deer out of my gardens!


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## Karen Collins (Mar 21, 2013)

Your backyard is lovely Karen. And the extra money spent on the picket fence was more than worth it.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

I would love to get a fence for Willow too. However I would be afraid to leave her outside alone. We have some friends who lost a miniature poodle to an owl! Plus they know someone else who had it happen too. We have lots of owls around here. Also eagles and coyotes. Bobcats too, I'm told, although I've never personally seen one. Willow would just love to be able to run around though.


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

I decided on split rail with a metal mesh attached. I had to do some fixes on our gate in the back because I think it's gaps are large enough for at least Mae to get through. My pups won't go outside without me. If I open the door to let them out the turn around to make sure I'm coming out with them.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> I would love to get a fence for Willow too. However I would be afraid to leave her outside alone. We have some friends who lost a miniature poodle to an owl! Plus they know someone else who had it happen too. We have lots of owls around here. Also eagles and coyotes. Bobcats too, I'm told, although I've never personally seen one. Willow would just love to be able to run around though.


We don't ever leave the dogs out unsupervised, even WITH the fence. It just keeps them in a smaller area, and keeps them away from the edge of the woods, where we might not be able to see coyotes coming. It also keeps the deer out, hence keeps them from rolling in deer poop! 

No one should EVER think a fence is a substitute for supervision... just like with small children. It just helps LIMIT the trouble they can get themselves into.


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## SPLAbby (Oct 11, 2014)

When I am walking Benjy on a leash to go potty, I feel torn between is this Benjy's "at ease" moments when he doesn't have to follow leash obedience rules? Or since he is on a leash, he must be proper at all times? I agree he always needs supervision, but he also needs his own time of unrestricted movement. Otherwise, maybe I don't need a fence. :clap2:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SPLAbby said:


> When I am walking Benjy on a leash to go potty, I feel torn between is this Benjy's "at ease" moments when he doesn't have to follow leash obedience rules? Or since he is on a leash, he must be proper at all times? I agree he always needs supervision, but he also needs his own time of unrestricted movement. Otherwise, maybe I don't need a fence. :clap2:


He should not pull on leash, no matter what. But other than that, there can CERTAINLY be different criteria for serious walking and more casual times. (this is true for my dogs, even when they are walking with me off-leash!) You should rarely, if ever, ask for a formal heads-up competition obedience type "heel" on regular walks. People get confused about this. But formal heeling is hard for a dog, both in terms of absolute attention and in terms of physical demands.

My criteria for "casual walk" heeling is that the dogs may not pull, but as long as there is no more than light contact between the leash and me, they can walk behind me, in front of me or beside me. They cannot cross in front of me, because that's a trip hazard. They also can't stop if we are on a "get someplace" walk. When we get someplace where it is appropriate for them to have a break (i.e. not on the edge of a busy road) and I think they might enjoy it, my cue is "Be a dog!" which means they can sniff and wander and mark to their hearts content, while I follow along with them. When break time is over, I say, "Let's go!" (which differs from my formal "Heel!" cue) and off we go again.

So it's possible for a dog to learn different types of leash behaviors, and respond to them on cue. What dogs CAN'T enjoy if they have no outdoors off-leash time is being able to run at tops speed, just for the joy of running! Kodi lived his first 5 years without a fenced yard, but I taught him an excellent, reliable recall, so I WAS able to let him run in safe places, knowing I could call him back as needed. Still, I think he really enjoys his back yard now. ...And Pixel has grown up with it, and has at least one RLH session every evening, while we sit on the deck with a glass of wine.


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## SPLAbby (Oct 11, 2014)

krandall said:


> So it's possible for a dog to learn different types of leash behaviors, and respond to them on cue. What dogs CAN'T enjoy if they have no outdoors off-leash time is being able to run at tops speed, just for the joy of running!


Thanks for the explanation. That makes a lot of sense. We start back to obedience training soon. (We had to stop awhile because Sue had shingles on her hand.) I have a better idea of what to ask when we get to leash training. Jeff


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SPLAbby said:


> Thanks for the explanation. That makes a lot of sense. We start back to obedience training soon. (We had to stop awhile because Sue had shingles on her hand.) I have a better idea of what to ask when we get to leash training. Jeff


She has my COMPLETE sympathy. I've had shingles and know how horrible it is!


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## SPLAbby (Oct 11, 2014)

krandall said:


> She has my COMPLETE sympathy. I've had shingles and know how horrible it is!


Thank you. We appreciate your saying so. I once thought that younger people didn't get shingles. I remember as a child my Grandma talking about shingles, palsy, and milkweed (legs). She wrapped her legs every day to keep them from swelling.

Sue had shingles when she was in her early 20's. She had an area on her back that traveled down a nerve across her shoulder and down her arm. But she was young enough that the nerve could regenerate and she was just left with occasional numbness Oh, and a very brief stabbing feeling on the back where it had started.We are now in our mid fifties and it came back.

My Mom had shingles really bad shortly before her passing. She had a two-month old grand baby she wasn't allowed to hold. The next month she fell on an area of broken curb at a drugstore and shattered her knee cap. She passed eight months after my Dad did. My parents always said that when one of them went, the other would soon follow. They were married just under 58 years.

Oops. I could go on and on talking about my parents. They were great people. We love and miss them. They would have loved Benjy.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

SPLAbby said:


> Thank you. We appreciate your saying so. I once thought that younger people didn't get shingles.


I thought shingles were mostly in older people too. I got a shingles shot a few years ago as I had chicken pox as a kid. I hear shingles are very, very painful!


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## SPLAbby (Oct 11, 2014)

Sue and Mom said shingles are the most painful thing she ever had. (Childbirth is over with a lot faster.) Mom's doctor gave her creams to put on it. Sue's doctor gave her pills to fight it from within. A shot won't prevent you from getting shingles. But if you do get it, the shot should make it less severe.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I have a post and rail fence with the wire and privacy in the front. I had the installers go through and dig into the ground (they have a machine for that) and put the wire into the ground so their are no gaps under the fence. At the gates, they built it up at our back gate so there is a wood piece that meets with the fence coming out of the ground. At my driveway gate, I have an expen since I am not comfortable with the gap there. I love the post and rail. We live in the woods and it blends in very nicely. What kind of trees are you taking down? We just took down 2 huge trees, but we know that we will soon have to take down our huge ash trees. Not happy about that.


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## SPLAbby (Oct 11, 2014)

We are taking down, from smallest to largest:

Silver maple (struck by lightning?)
Norway maple (has black maple disease)
2 pine trees (beetles)
ash (ash borer)
pin oak (very old, core rot, forking limbs that could break off easily on our neighbors yard)​The pin oak is to cost as much as the others combined. I am guessing the trunk is about 6-7 feet across. And they are taking some shrubs, but the cost of that is minimal. I don't understand how the tree removal companies price their jobs. Some companies were twice that of other companies. But some companies had cranes/cherry pickers. Others just had climbers and was very labor intensive.

We bought the house less than a year ago. If we had known how bad of shape some of the trees had been, it is hard to say if we might not of bought the house. But we like this house by far better than anything else we looked at, so who knows. We had a home inspection done, but of course he didn't look at the trees. Fortunately, nothing in the house has broken.

We will be left with a Bradford Pear tree in back. And in front another Bradford Pear, a Crimson Maple, and another maple I can't remember the name of. But the neighborhood is still full of lots of mature trees on all sides and we can enjoy theirs! The house across the street in on 4 lots and wooded. It has a creek too. Very pretty to sit on the front porch and enjoy with our baby Benjy.

Jeff


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