# Housebreaking 8 week pup



## LochTess

Hi, sorry for the long post!!

My almost 15 year old baby Ricky has passed on. We should be getting our new 8 week puppy the first week in January but unfortunately he will have had no crate or housebreaking experience. It's been 15 years since I've had to deal with housebreaking and all I remember is that it took a long time!! I really want to get this right!!

I got the Richell Expandable Medium Pet Crate
Expandable Pet Crate with Floor Tray Medium

PAW TRAX® Mesh Training Tray PAW TRAX® Mesh Training Tray

I also got a MidWest Life Stages Double Door Dog Crate
https://www.chewy.com/dog/midwest-life-stages-double-door-dog/dp/51246

I want my puppy to mostly go outside to P & P and use an indoor potty system inside his Xpen if necessary
but I've read conflicting thoughts like this article saying "Once you bring your new puppy home do NOT use 
puppy pee pads. Never, never use a pee-pee pad or have a potty station inside your home after the puppy 
is 8 to 9 weeks of age and if you put a potty station inside the crate your encouraging him to P in the crate. 
Housebreaking Your Puppyâ€"Using Pee Pads and Potty Basics

So should I take him outside every hour encouraging him to P outside or do I put him on his potty station 
in the X pen and encourage him pee in there?

This is our new puppy but we don't have a name yet.

Thanks in advance!!


----------



## Zoe093014

He's so cute!!! Great photos! Enjoy him :smile2:


----------



## LochTess

Thanks, I wish we had him right now!!


----------



## krandall

He's adorable! Tom King has said it many times, and I will echo what he has said. The people who have the HARDEST time potty training Havanese (or other toy breeds for that matter!) Are those who insist on not using an indoor potty option. Traditional "pee pads" are probably the worst choice, because puppies tend to tear them up and drag them around. Oh, wait! The washable pee pads are even a worse choice, because so many dogs then confuse them with other small scatter rugs, towels left on the floor, etc.

But litter boxes, or trays that protect the pee pad from the puppy (like the UgoDog or the one you've ordered) are an excellent option. My personal preference is for litter boxes, or for a UgoDog with wood pellets under the grate rather than a pee pad, because the wood pellets absorb odor MUCH better than pee pads, and I have a sensitive nose! Both of mine were started on litter boxes by their breeder, and my only job was to continue those good habits once they came home.

No matter WHAT you do, as long as your puppy has access to the outdoors some of the time, he's going to figure THAT part out all by himself. Both of mine are perfectly happy to use the outdoors or the litter boxes. (although Kodi MUCH prefers the outdoors, only using the litter boxes in bad weather) That's fine with me! I am perfectly happy to let them use "indoor plumbing", when it means that I don't have to deal with accidents! It also means I don't have to deal with taking them outdoors in foul New England weather!!!

I think a lot of the "traditional" potty training advice is written for people with larger breed dogs. If they only knew how easy things were with a litter box trained dog, they'd be jealous! 

That said, I'd NEVER put a littler box (or other potty option) in a CRATE with a puppy. They should learn to keep their crate clean. The appropriate place to start potty training to a litter box (or pee pad tray) is in an ex-pen.


----------



## LochTess

Thank you Karen!

So do you take them outside to P&P or put them on the potty system or litter box?

I think you're right that may be a litter box with litter might be a better choice because it would be less likely to resemble anything in the house.

It still seems a little confusing if you ultimately want them to go outside but you're training them only to one place inside?

Another thought is to take them outside every 30 minutes – 1 hour then put a belly band on when I can't watch him.


----------



## Zoe093014

We have been using the Rascal Dog with much success until ... I washed the grass top and changed the pellets! I have tried the spray. She found a green mat and uses that so I put the mat on top of the pad in the Rascal but it's uncanny the way she will avoid the original grass. Any suggestions?


----------



## LochTess

Rascal dog looks good but unfortunately the person who owns it is having health problems and no longer has the company anymore :-(


----------



## boomana

I wish I knew about and/or, rather, listening to the advice given to you above. I figured that since I'd successfully house trained one dog with no real issues, I knew what I was doing. I was wrong, and at eight months, am having to do what I should have done day one when I got my puppy. Now, my near-adult dog is paying the price for me NOT having a good indoor potty option early on (I tried pee pads, and all she did was drag them around the house like toys) with having to be highly restricted, when she shouldn't need to be at this point, and when not in a confined area, is leashed to my side. Thank goodness, it's paying off finally. I'm also paying the price of not following advice, by spending too much of my time with my dog, hyper focused on looking for signs of the squat and drop when I could be enjoying our time together without that stress.


----------



## Pucks104

When you bring home your puppy have an expen set up in a 2'x4' configuration with room for the potty option and the sleep material (fleece fabric works great as it is warm and washable). Puppy will tend to use the potty option rather than his sleep material but if he has an accident on the sleep material rub that scent onto the potty material then wash the sleep material and use a product like Nature's Miracle to be sure the sleep material doesn't have any residual urine/poop odor. Puppy will then tend to use potty material for intended purpose. Praise profusely when puppy potties in intended spot. To encourage outside pottying again take a bit of used potty material or used pee pad to outside place so puppy will associate scent with the place you want him to go. In a couple of weeks if puppy is consistently pottying on the potty material/place and not having accidents on the bedding then enlarge the expen to 6'x3' with the potty place on one end and the bedding on the other with play space in between. If you have room the expen can be enlarged again IF puppy consistently potties in potty place and doesn't have accidents in the non potty part of the expen. 
Puppy is to be inside out of the expen only when you are sure his bladder and bowels are empty AND you can keep eyes on him so you can react very quickly if he starts to pee or poo. If he does start to interrupt with "aht" or similar sound and take to potty place. To prevent accidents keep time out of expen short and only when puppy is empty for several weeks. Praise profusely and treat when puppy goes in designated potty spot. Puppies need to go upon waking, after vigorous play, eating and/or drinking, excited greetings, etc. Our 14 week old pees and poops first thing in the morning. Both again within an hour if waking and again within the next hour. He will go when play with or almost 3 year old Hav slows do if play slows puppy goes out or gets put in expen with potty place. At 8 weeks your puppy will likely go more often. He may or may not sleep through the night. If he wakes in the night get him to potty place, praise when he goes, no other chit chat and back to sleep place. Accident avoidance and profuse praise when puppy goes in proper place will help puppy develop good potty habits. It will be many months before puppy will be fully reliable and have a tell for going outside to potty but can be accident free with an indoor potty place. Keep potty place and expen clean as you want puppy to learn to be clean. Enjoy puppy. They grow up really fast!


----------



## boomana

I forgot to mention that your puppy is super cute. Congrats!


----------



## LochTess

Thank you all so much and I really appreciate all the suggestions!!

So the first night I was going to introduce the puppy to the crate in my bedroom
and if he has to go out in the middle of the night then I should take him to the X pen 
with the potty system not outside?


----------



## krandall

LochTess said:


> Thank you Karen!
> 
> So do you take them outside to P&P or put them on the potty system or litter box?
> 
> I think you're right that may be a litter box with litter might be a better choice because it would be less likely to resemble anything in the house.
> 
> It still seems a little confusing if you ultimately want them to go outside but you're training them only to one place inside?
> 
> Another thought is to take them outside every 30 minutes - 1 hour then put a belly band on when I can't watch him.


I would NEVER put a belly band on a puppy in training! You are just teaching him it's OK to soil himself. (and it won't help in the least when it comes to poop) Belly bands are to keep intact males (usually stud dogs) from inappropriate marking, or in the case of elderly, incontinent dogs. They are not a training tool.

I have litter boxes in several places. (less when I only have an adult dog, but my girl is still young) I have one in our bed room up stairs, one in the kitchen, one in my office (where the puppy was often confined with me as I worked, and where Kodi is confined when I'm out of the for longer periods) and one in her ex-pen.

Your puppy should be confined to an area where he can be error-free when you can't do eyes-on supervision. Unless your breeder has already given them a good start on potty training, (many good breeders do!) this probably means in an ex-pen closed down to a 1x2 square, with his bedding in one end and the litter box or UgoDog in the other end. He won't want to soil his bedding if the breeder has kept him in clean surroundings, so he will naturally start using the only other spot... the litter box. When he is successful with this, you can start slowly expanding the ex-pen until it is full size. As far as I am concerned, he should be in this unless you can give him eyes-on supervision for many months. The biggest mistake people make is too much freedom and too little supervision too soon.

With both of mine, I didn't have any set schedule for taking them out, (because I know they already knew how to successfully use their litter boxes) but we were outside several times a day, just playing and training, whenever the weather was good. In the course of the outdoor time, they would just naturally potty when they needed to, and when they did, I HEAPED on the praise. They learned very quickly where the appropriate potty spots were.

Remember when you are potty training a puppy, it's MUCH more about teaching them where to go than where NOT to go. They learn quickly that "here, here and HERE" are"OK" spots. It takes a lot longer (hence all the supervision!) before they learn all the "not potty spots". It's all about establishing good habits.


----------



## krandall

Zoe093014 said:


> We have been using the Rascal Dog with much success until ... I washed the grass top and changed the pellets! I have tried the spray. She found a green mat and uses that so I put the mat on top of the pad in the Rascal but it's uncanny the way she will avoid the original grass. Any suggestions?


I only tried the grass on the Rascal Dog for a VERY short period of time. I could never get it clean enough that I could stand the smell. Before I used plain pellets. Pixel is a digger (spraying pellets all over, and it HURTS when you step on them!!! ) So now all our litter boxes have plain grates (no grass) over the pellets. Both dogs adapted to the grates with no problem. Pixel had learned about grates at the King's, Kodi was not introduced to the grates until much later.


----------



## krandall

LochTess said:


> Rascal dog looks good but unfortunately the person who owns it is having health problems and no longer has the company anymore :-(


You can use a UgoDog the same way. Just put pellets under the grate instead of a pee pad. That's what I have in Pixel's pen, and that's what we use in our RV.


----------



## krandall

LochTess said:


> Thank you all so much and I really appreciate all the suggestions!!
> 
> So the first night I was going to introduce the puppy to the crate in my bedroom
> and if he has to go out in the middle of the night then I should take him to the X pen
> with the potty system not outside?


That's completely up to you! Either is fine. HOWEVER... *I* didn't WANT to go down stairs and outside into the chilly night. On the(very) few occasions that my puppies woke up during the night, I picked them up, popped them into the litter box in the corner of the bed room, they pottied and we both went back to bed! Easy-peasy!


----------



## Pucks104

You can do either depending on where you live and what the winter weather is like you can take him outside to potty or to his indoor potty place. Praise for pottying then back to crate. Good night puppy, go to sleep. It shouldn't take too long for puppy to sleep through the night though that may mean a 5-6 hour stretch as opposed to an 8 hour stretch at first.


----------



## LochTess

Thank you! It feels like I'm doing this for the first time…


----------



## Karen Collins

krandall said:


> Oh, wait! The washable pee pads are even a worse choice, because so many dogs then confuse them with other small scatter rugs, towels left on the floor, etc.


Amen Amen and Amen!!! :wink2:


----------



## Zoe093014

Thanks, Karen. I'll see if she'll use it with just the grate. She's kind of a quirky little creature. It's got to smell just right!


----------



## Tom King

There is absolutely no confusion on the pup's part. We hear this reasoning all the time, but the puppy is not using reasoning. It's all about habit to them, and they can develop the habit to potty on multiple options. The owners part is to help them develop the right habits.


----------



## Zoe093014

Tom,
Yes, but she would use the Rascal a hundred times over, even in the middle of the night if I placed her on it, and so how does that explain that when the same equipment in the same spot had perhaps a different smell, she would no longer use it? Actually let me think...I may have substituted a different grass top for a couple of days that didn't fit exactly, while the original was hanging out to dry. Could that have tweeked something in her brain? She hadn't used that one and so it didn't smell exactly right. I say, habit -- yes, but that habit has to associated with smell. Do you disagree?


Linda


----------



## MarinaGirl

krandall said:


> I only tried the grass on the Rascal Dog for a VERY short period of time. I could never get it clean enough that I could stand the smell. Before I used plain pellets. Pixel is a digger (spraying pellets all over, and it HURTS when you step on them!!! ) So now all our litter boxes have plain grates (no grass) over the pellets. Both dogs adapted to the grates with no problem. Pixel had learned about grates at the King's, Kodi was not introduced to the grates until much later.


I've never had a problem with the Rascal Dog Litter Box's fake grass smelling. I have 2 pieces (so I have a backup when 1 patch of grass is being cleaned/dried) and I keep pellets or a pee pad under the grate to absorb urine. I've never been able to train Emmie to go on a plastic grate. I also think it helps that the diet I feed my Havanese makes her pee and poop low odor. As well, the litter box is not her primary potty solution as I take her out for a walk 3-4 times a day and when she was younger even more.


----------



## LochTess

Thanks Tom!!

My plan was to take the puppy outside to P&P every 30 min.-1hr.
Should I be putting him on the potty system in the X pen instead?


----------



## Pucks104

I sometimes take Rex outside and sometimes let him use his indoor option. He seems to be handling it fine and so far hasn't had an accident.


----------



## LochTess

Pucks104 said:


> I sometimes take Rex outside and sometimes let him use his indoor option. He seems to be handling it fine and so far hasn't had an accident.


 Thanks! Maybe if he has to go in the middle of the night I'll put him in his Xpen to potty.


----------



## JCurling

Pogo was trained to sleep in his crate when we brought him home and all was well for a few weeks. He started to object to being placed in his crate at night so we began leaving him in his ex pen at night. This is great for us too as he has litter box access all night if he needs it and we can sleep in. He loves his ex pen and we have no issues with crating him when we need to travel with him in the car.


----------



## LochTess

JCurling said:


> Pogo was trained to sleep in his crate when we brought him home and all was well for a few weeks. He started to object to being placed in his crate at night so we began leaving him in his ex pen at night. This is great for us too as he has litter box access all night if he needs it and we can sleep in. He loves his ex pen and we have no issues with crating him when we need to travel with him in the car.


 That sounds great but right now the Xpen might be too much space for him until he's trained to use the potty system.


----------



## krandall

MarinaGirl said:


> I've never had a problem with the Rascal Dog Litter Box's fake grass smelling. I have 2 pieces (so I have a backup when 1 patch of grass is being cleaned/dried) and I keep pellets or a pee pad under the grate to absorb urine. I've never been able to train Emmie to go on a plastic grate. I also think it helps that the diet I feed my Havanese makes her pee and poop low odor. As well, the litter box is not her primary potty solution as I take her out for a walk 3-4 times a day and when she was younger even more.


As I said, I have a sensitive nose. I had two grass mats too, and tried soaking them in vinegar, bleach, baking soda and Nature's Miracle. NOTHING got them clean enough that I was willing to have them in my kitchen. And Kodi doesn't use the boxes very often either. (The grass experiment was WAY pre-Pixel)


----------



## Tom King

Can you fold the expen in so there is just room for his bed area, and potty area? The metal expens allow you to fold the panels in until it can be as small as 2x2. or 2x4 and block up part of the room in one end with something. I'm not so sure it's smell as much as what their feet feel under them. The fake grass was a no-go here too. Mine is almost as sensitive as a dog's nose.


Regardless of the type of spot, it helps a lot if you take the pup when it needs to go, and that is not by a clock. If in a crate at night, first thing in the morning is almost a sure thing, or if they wake up in the night. That's the only way I've ever trained one to litter that wasn't raised with it from the start.


----------



## Zoe093014

OK, I'm no expert with these little guys but horses look for a porous spot to pee. They pea in the stall, or on leaves, etc. So how do you explain the fact that these dogs don't always go outside and pee on the same type of surface...they go on gravel, on leaves, on grass. Each of these surfaces has a distinctively different feel on their feet. I still say they can be discriminating and a bit quirky! > And maybe there's a little bit of reasoning going on as well... which is why they can switch to floor mats from pee pads, etc. But I definitely agree with forming correct habits with them when young, as habits are huge with most animals.


----------



## JCurling

Not if it's configured to fit just the bed and the litter option.


----------



## BR3322

*Potty Training Problems*

Hi, we rescued Woody December 12th. He piddles everywhere. He pees in his crate, then cries, doesn't wake us up, pees on his towel in his small pen, pees when you look at him. He is 12 weeks old. We need help in what to do to be more effective to get him to Go Potty outside. I think that he was crated most of the time, relieving himself in his crate. He was filthy when we got him, ticks all over, hookworms and dried feces between his paw pads, you can't imagine how awful he smelled. Any advice would be appreciated. He shreds pee pads. Carmen was a dream to potty train. Thank you for your wisdom.


----------



## krandall

BR3322 said:


> Hi, we rescued Woody December 12th. He piddles everywhere. He pees in his crate, then cries, doesn't wake us up, pees on his towel in his small pen, pees when you look at him. He is 12 weeks old. We need help in what to do to be more effective to get him to Go Potty outside. I think that he was crated most of the time, relieving himself in his crate. He was filthy when we got him, ticks all over, hookworms and dried feces between his paw pads, you can't imagine how awful he smelled. Any advice would be appreciated. He shreds pee pads. Carmen was a dream to potty train. Thank you for your wisdom.


Rescue puppies who have been kept in dirty conditions are the hardest to train, because they don't have any concept of staying clean. They've have gotten used to living in filth, so it doesn't bother them. It will be a long uphill road, but it CAN be done. Hopefully others who have done it will chime in. I might also suggest that you contact havanese Rescue and see if they have someone who could mentor you through the process. Their foster people must see this all the time.


----------



## Karen Collins

He's still very young, so the chances of rehabilitation are much better than with an older dog. I would treat him like you would a 3-4 week old. Unfortunately, you don't have the natural desire to keep his bed clean to help, but you can find what does work and start there.

Pee pads don't work, so get rid of them. Sounds like towels or anything cloth are not to be used either. Crates don't work so don't put him in one again until he's rehabilitated. 

You need an expen and a litter pan with pine pellets and a timer. 

You want to create his space so that he only has a tiny area to sleep and the rest of the area to potty. The sleep area has to be so small that it fits only him. This will force him to get up and walk to the litter pan. Puppies do need to walk a couple steps to squat and pee. You will also have to be on hand to watch him. If he stands up, go ahead and place him in the litter tray. If he has to go he should sniff around the pellets and pee. When he does it correctly, praise and treat. If he jumps back on his bed and pees, don't fret, just remove the bed and clean up any mess with something like Nature's Miracle and start again. Repetition is going to win out in the end. 

There are a couple ways to set up his space. I would probably start with a small wire crate with NO bedding. Use a wire divider that comes with the crate or find a cardboard box to put in the back of the crate . Anything that shrinks his spot to lie down to the smallest possible. This will look sad and uncomfortable, but its temporary and is at least clean, which is better than what he's apparently been living with.

Then you can fold an ex pen to where it will only fit a litter tray and his wire crate. I will try to set something up here and take a picture to show you what I mean.

Once you have his confinement spot set up, then you can start with a very strict schedule of feed, potty, play, sleep.

This is going to be very tedious and time consuming as Karen Randall stated. I wonder if you understood what you were getting yourself into when you rescued a puppy in such dire conditions. If its more than you signed on for, then perhaps contacting the Havanese rescue to find someone experienced to foster during the rehab process would be best for both you and the puppy. You could get him back after some progress has been made. If we lived closer, I would be willing to do that.

Good luck and if a phone call is easier, I am available by telephone.


----------



## BR3322

Thank you. I never thought about no concern for sanitary conditions. I appreciate your encouragement. He does have a small pen for the day when he is put in there. He gets plenty of exercise (playing with Carmen, blitzing thru the house), leashed in the kitchen when we are cooking so we can keep an eye on him. I didn't want to put the wire screen into his crate for night time but that must be the best thing to do. He is getting a little better. We are constantly watching his eating and drinking habits, take him out all the time. Baths when he soils himself. He is getting better every day. We love him dearly and will do whatever it takes to help him with his training. He is going on the towels in his pen, we pick them up and give him a new one but we haven't given him bedding yet. Someone is with him most all the time. Thank you again, I appreciate your wisdom. Barbara Moran


----------



## Karen Collins

BR3322 said:


> Thank you. I never thought about no concern for sanitary conditions. I appreciate your encouragement. He does have a small pen for the day when he is put in there. He gets plenty of exercise (playing with Carmen, blitzing thru the house), leashed in the kitchen when we are cooking so we can keep an eye on him. I didn't want to put the wire screen into his crate for night time but that must be the best thing to do. He is getting a little better. We are constantly watching his eating and drinking habits, take him out all the time. Baths when he soils himself. He is getting better every day. We love him dearly and will do whatever it takes to help him with his training. He is going on the towels in his pen, we pick them up and give him a new one but we haven't given him bedding yet. Someone is with him most all the time. Thank you again, I appreciate your wisdom. Barbara Moran


As long as he is soiling his crate I would not shut the door. That's why I suggested to use it in the ex pen, but reduce the amount of space he has to lie down.

Once he gets to where he never soils his bed in the crate with the door open then you can start closing it for short periods of time. Always ending the time before he has to potty, so you can help insure success and train new good habits.

I would want to get a litter tray ASAP and remove the towels so that you don't have him forever peeing on clothing on the floor.

The idea in the set up that I described is to make it where he can only succeed. And by the way, I use the same method the Kings use, because it works. The pellets are equine pine pellets easily found at Tractor Supply or similar stores.

I can't remember where I ordered the litter trays, but Tom King posted the link not long ago. I have know idea how to search for past posts. Maybe under his name? Someone else should be able to direct you for that.


----------



## Karen Collins

http://puppygohere.com

Here's the website for the litter tray. Make sure you order the miniature which is 20x24x5


----------



## BR3322

Thank you Karen! Woody's crate is now in his pen. We are getting a litter pan this morning. Small success, he did wake us up 3 times last night to go potty outside. We are feeling fortunate, thanks to you and Krandall's taking the time to offer your expertise. Woody is a sweetheart, very loving and playful. Will keep you posted. Thank you again, Barbara


----------



## krandall

BR3322 said:


> Thank you Karen! Woody's crate is now in his pen. We are getting a litter pan this morning. Small success, he did wake us up 3 times last night to go potty outside. We are feeling fortunate, thanks to you and Krandall's taking the time to offer your expertise. Woody is a sweetheart, very loving and playful. Will keep you posted. Thank you again, Barbara


It sounds like you are committed to making it work, and Karen is right... he's young enough that rehabbing him is much more likely to be successful than with an older dog from similar conditions. Good for you!!!


----------



## Laurmann2000

BR3322, I want to say that your puppy is absolutely adorable and thank you for rescuing him. It might be more work for you but you've giving that puppy a great home and new lease on life.


----------



## Laurmann2000

Loch Tess. Congratulations on your new puppy. What a cutie pie! I love his coloring. Bet you can't wait to get him. Please post lots of pictures when he arrives.


----------



## LochTess

Thank you Laura!!

We got Kylie on January 9th and I'm in love!!!
It was so painful losing Ricky and Kylie warms my heart!!

He's a livewire and he's definitely keeping us on our toes…
in fact I haven't had time to even go and check the forum.

It's been a little over a week and he's 9 weeks now 
He's very smart but my biggest challenge is the housebreaking!
He will poop on the potty system we have been his expen but pees in his bed (in the xpen). I take him out every hour but he just wants to play and when I come in he pee's in his xpen.


----------



## krandall

LochTess said:


> Thank you Laura!!
> 
> We got Kylie on January 9th and I'm in love!!!
> It was so painful losing Ricky and Kylie warms my heart!!
> 
> He's a livewire and he's definitely keeping us on our toes&#8230;
> in fact I haven't had time to even go and check the forum.
> 
> It's been a little over a week and he's 9 weeks now
> He's very smart but my biggest challenge is the housebreaking!
> He will poop on the potty system we have been his expen but pees in his bed (in the xpen). I take him out every hour but he just wants to play and when I come in he pee's in his xpen.


He's adorable! Since he is peeing consistently in the ex-pen when you bring him in, use that to your advantage. Make the ex-pen small enough that it will ONLY fit his potty. Take the bedding out for now. Then when he pees in the "right place" (his only option!) in the ex-pen, you can tell him how wonderfully smart he is!


----------



## LochTess

Thank you Karen!! I see you have a new addition to your family as well. Panda is a cutie pie!!


----------



## Laurmann2000

Congrats on Kylie. He's gorgeous. Good luck with the potty training. I hope he gets the right idea soon.


----------



## LochTess

Laurmann2000 said:


> Congrats on Kylie. He's gorgeous. Good luck with the potty training. I hope he gets the right idea soon.


 Thanks again Laura!!


----------



## LochTess

I'm SO frustrated with the housebreaking!!

In his Xpen (that I've made pretty small) he will sometimes pee & poop on the Richell’s PAW TRAX Mesh Training Tray but more often than not he will pee on his mat/bed. He also likes to laying on it using it more like a bed then his own bed. I wonder if he's confused that the training tray is his bed and the mat is where he needs to pee? I have no idea how to turn this behavior around…:frusty:

At night he sleeps in his crate without peeing or pooping in it but consistently needs to go around 4:30 AM.
First he will cry so I take him to poop and 20-30 minutes later he will want to Pee, he won't do both at the same time… I don't sleep much anyway but I'm hoping this will end sooner than later!!

He's also going outside, I swear Kylie is a peeing & pooping machine!!


----------



## Karen Collins

LochTess said:


> I'm SO frustrated with the housebreaking!!
> 
> In his Xpen (that I've made pretty small) he will sometimes pee & poop on the Richell's PAW TRAX Mesh Training Tray but more often than not he will pee on his mat/bed.


Have you tried the equine pine pellets? Most people have success with those. Maybe because the smell of the pine is an outdoorsy odor? I don't know, but pups do really seem to be attracted to them. Others on the forum use them but cover them with a grate and have success, but I used my without a grate because my pup was not trained to a litter pan. She took right to the pellets.

If he is peeing/pooping on his bed, remove all bedding. Just until he stops doing that. Dogs are very habitual creatures, they will repeat behavior, so removing the bedding will stop the habit until he forgets about it. Also, your washing machine is probably not totally removing the urine smell. I'd throw the bedding away and wait until he's reliable and then add back something cheap that can be thrown away to test him.



LochTess said:


> He also likes to laying on it using it more like a bed then his own bed.


Sometimes Blossom would lay on the pellets, but I didn't mind because I kept the poop scooped and the pee disappears into the pellets and she wasn't getting dirty. Its not very comfortable so she didn't do it long.



LochTess said:


> At night he sleeps in his crate without peeing or pooping in it but consistently needs to go around 4:30 AM.
> First he will cry so I take him to poop and 20-30 minutes later he will want to Pee, he won't do both at the same time&#8230; I don't sleep much anyway but I'm hoping this will end sooner than later!!
> 
> He's also going outside, I swear Kylie is a peeing & pooping machine!!


You control the outgo by controlling the income. No solid food after 5pm and make sure he poops sufficiently between 5pm and bedtime. Also, what are you feeding him? If its a kibble that is coated with probiotics, that will cause a puppy/dog to have to poop more often and with stronger urgency.

If he's only pooping in the AM, then offer him a big drink of water and wait on him to pee. Unfortunately, puppies are very demanding and cause us to lose lots of sleep. It passes so quickly I promise.


----------



## krandall

LochTess said:


> I'm SO frustrated with the housebreaking!!
> 
> In his Xpen (that I've made pretty small) he will sometimes pee & poop on the Richell's PAW TRAX Mesh Training Tray but more often than not he will pee on his mat/bed. He also likes to laying on it using it more like a bed then his own bed. I wonder if he's confused that the training tray is his bed and the mat is where he needs to pee? I have no idea how to turn this behavior around&#8230;:frusty:
> 
> At night he sleeps in his crate without peeing or pooping in it but consistently needs to go around 4:30 AM.
> First he will cry so I take him to poop and 20-30 minutes later he will want to Pee, he won't do both at the same time&#8230; I don't sleep much anyway but I'm hoping this will end sooner than later!!
> 
> He's also going outside, I swear Kylie is a peeing & pooping machine!!


It may be that something about the Richel surface just doesn't work for him. But before you start experimenting with simething else, the first thing I'd do is raise his bed, by putting a box or bricks or whatever you can find, high enough that he actually as a clear difference in height between the two areas. Many dogs prefer a raised bed, and if that clearly becomes "bed" to him, the Richel may be more obviously "potty" to him.

Have you talked to the breeder about the problem? Most good breeders start their puppies on SOME sort of potty training before they go home. But if her method was significantly different from what you are trying to get him to use now, he could be just mightily confused. It could help to go back to using the breeder's method... At least for a while


----------



## krandall

Karen, why would probiotics cause a dog to poop more? All three of mine are on good quality probiotics all the time, and I've never had a problem with poop.


----------



## LochTess

Thanks Karen & Karen, I really appreciate all the suggestions!!

He actually never poops in his bed just pee's. I tried to remove the bedding in the past but then he just pee's in the spot without the bedding. Maybe Kylie thinks that the potty Tray is for pooping not peeing? 
I'll try to raise the bed up and see if that doesn't make a difference. I'm trying to think of what I could use because he likes to chew and I'm concerned that cardboard or bricks would be his next chew toy:-( I got Kylie when he was 8 weeks old and unfortunately the breeder didn't do much as far as housebreaking.

I was feeding him 100% chicken with Wysong's Call Of The Wild when I first got him but decided to switch to kibble until he was older. Now I feed him Acana Regional Wild Prairie 1/4 cup 3 times a day. He poops 4-5 times throughout the day and his last meal is around 3:30-4 PM. If I feed him later than that he wants to P&P at 2-3AM. I always take him out before bed, around 11 and he pee's. 

If I'm standing there watching and guiding him he will P&P on the Richell but on his own he will just poop there.


----------



## Karen Collins

krandall said:


> Karen, why would probiotics cause a dog to poop more? All three of mine are on good quality probiotics all the time, and I've never had a problem with poop.


It doesn't always with all dogs. But the job of a probiotic is to aid in digestion which it does very well. Sometimes that translates into more BMs.

When a kibble has probiotics already added, and the dog has never been on probiotics it can give the puppy a strong and frequent urge to evacuate. I think its better to buy a food without probiotics and add my own. That way I can decrease/increase the amount as needed. Most probiotics will instruct you to start out with a small dose and gradually increase for this reason.

Usually, though even without adjusting the probiotics the gut will level out and poops go back to normal. My petsitter just had this happen. She changed her dogs kibble from one with zero probiotics to one with added probiotics. Suddenly this very well-trained dog started pooping all over the house. She just couldn't make it to outside. The poops were not runny btw. Just frequent and powerful.


----------



## LochTess

That's very interesting Karen!! This is what I feeding Kylie, are there any probiotics?

Alberta’s vast prairies are renowned for the diversity of world-class foods produced in its rich fertile soils 
and cold northern lakes. Reflecting our prairie heritage, ACANA Wild Prairie features cage-free Cobb 
chicken and whole eggs from local prairie farms, and wild-caught fish from our cold northern lakes – all 
delivered fresh each day! 
Grain-free to reduce unwanted carbohydrates, ACANA features regional vegetables, fruits and botanicals 
for a rich supply of natural trace elements.
Made from our region’s best and freshest ingredients, ACANA keeps your cherished dog healthy and strong.
INGREDIENTS
Boneless chicken*, chicken meal, green peas, turkey meal, chicken liver oil, field beans, red lentils, 
boneless turkey*, whole egg*, boneless walleye*, sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, chicken liver*, 
herring oil, whole apples*, whole pears*, pumpkin*, butternut squash*, parsnips*, carrots*, spinach 
greens*, cranberries, blueberries, kelp, chicory root, juniper berries, angelica root, marigold 
flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, lavender, rosemary, plus premium vitamins and minerals. 
*DELIVERED FRESH
VITAMINS, MINERALS, SUPPLEMENTS
Vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, copper 
proteinate, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.
NUTRITIONAL ADEQUACY STATEMENT
ACANA Wild Prairie is formulated to meet the 
nutritional levels established by the A AFCO Dog 
Food Nutrient Profiles for ALL LIFE STAGES.
† Use a standard 8 oz/250 ml measuring cup. Serve dry or lightly moistened. 
See your veterinarian regularly. To help maintain freshness, we recommend 
sealing the bag tightly and storing it in a cool, dry location.
TYPICAL ANALYSIS
VITAMINS
Vitamin A 21 KIU/kg
Vitamin D3 500 IU/kg
Vitamin E 360 IU/kg
Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) 97 mg/kg
Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) 45 mg/kg
Vitamin B3 (Niacin) 340 mg/kg
Vitamin B5 (Pan. Acid) 49 mg/kg
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) 41 mg/kg
Vitamin B12 0.48 mg/kg
Biotin 0.8 mg/kg
Folic Acid 2.8 mg/kg
Choline 2,000 mg/kg
MINERALS 
Sodium 0.3 %
Chloride 0.45 %
Potassium 0.75 %
Magnesium 0.1 %
Iron 130 mg/kg
Zinc 200 mg/kg 
Copper 20 mg/kg
Manganese 28 mg/kg
Iodine 1.8 mg/kg
Selenium 0.8 mg/kg
AMINO ACIDS 
Lysine 2.2 %
Threonine 1.3 %
Methionine 0.7 %
Isoleucine 1.3 %
Leucine 2.3 %
Valine 1.5 %
Arginine 2.1 %
Phenylalanine 1.3 %
Histidine 0.7 %
Tryptophan 0.3 %
Cystine 0.3 %
Tyrosine 1.0 %
Taurine 0.3 %
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude protein (min.) 31 %
Crude fat (min.) 17 %
Crude fiber (max.) 5 %
Moisture (max.) 10 %
Calcium (min.) 1.2 %
Phosphorus (min.) 0.9 %
Calcium: Phosphorus Ratio 1.3:1
Omega-6 (min.) 2.5 %
LA (min) 2.0 %
Omega-3 (min.) 0.6 %
DHA / EPA (min.) 0.3 % / 0.15 %
Omega 6: Omega 3 ratio 4:1
Glucosamine (min.) 700 mg/kg
Chondroitin sulfate (min.) 1500 mg/kg
CALORIE DISTRIBUTION
Metabolic Energy for ACANA Wild Prairie Dog Food is 
3615 kcal/kg (434 kcal per 250ml cup) with 30% of 
energy from protein, 40% from fat and 30% from fruits 
and vegetables.
BOTANICAL INCLUSIONS
Chicory root 500 mg/kg
Juniper berries 500 mg/kg
Angelica root 350 mg/kg
Marigold flowers 350 mg/kg
Sweet fennel 350 mg/kg
Peppermint leaf 300 mg/kg
Lavender 150 mg/kg


----------



## Molly120213

The Enterococcus faecium mentioned in the ingredients is a probiotic.


----------



## LochTess

Thanks Diane!! 

So should I be looking into a different food or will Kylie
adjust and the frequent poops just become less?


----------



## Molly120213

First let me say that I am no expert here. The food that Molly's breeder had her on did have some probiotic in it. My breeder also had her dogs and puppies on a separate probiotic powder. After a period of time I stopped giving her the separate powder. Molly had some GI issues with very soft stool. I have since started back up with giving her a probiotic every day. It has made a world of difference in keeping her stools at a good consistancy so in my case it definitely has helped her and not given her frequent stools. I also think the one strain of bacteria that the dog food has in it is probably nowhere near the quantity you get in a separate probiotic powder. I wouldn't change the food if your dog is doing well on it. Puppies just seem to poop more and four times a day doesn't sound that excessive to me.

P.S. I also think the way kibble is processed that any probiotic included would no longer be "live" and really have very little effect.


----------



## LochTess

Thanks again Diane!!

What's the name of the probiotic & food you're giving Molly?

Kylie seems to be doing well with the Acana except for pooping 4–5 times a day... I'm glad to hear you think that's normal! 
I was feeding him cooked meat with Wysong's call of the wild but right now I like feeding him the kibble because I use it as his training treats.


----------



## Molly120213

Right now Molly is eating Nature's Variety Limited Ingredient Lamb and Peas. She gets some freeze dried raw lamb from the same company as a topper. The probiotic I am using is Dogzymes Probiotic Max. She gets 1/8 tsp. sprinkled on her food once a day. I switched her to a limited ingredient diet because she was having some GI issues and I wanted to keep her to a single protein. I actually tried Acana brand first but my fussy girl would not eat it. If you don't notice a decrease in the number of stools per day as your pup matures you might try a different protein source ( some dogs react to chicken, mine included), or grain free, or a different brand. Depending on the make up of the food it will affect the stool.


----------



## LochTess

Many thanks Diane!! 

I'm feeding Kylie 1/4 cup 3 times a day. When should I reduce the meals to 2 times a day?
The other thing is that if I'm not there to pick up his poop Kylie will eat it:frown2:


----------



## Molly120213

Most dogs will let you know when to go down to two meals a day by just not eating the lunch portion when you give it to them. Then you can just divide the 3/4 cup into two servings for the day. Molly is two and it seems like she only wants one meal a day now. I have increased her breakfast portion accordingly. Molly is a poop eater too! She does not have an indoor potty, and I take her outside to potty on a leash so she doesn't get the chance to eat it.


----------



## LochTess

Kylie has a unbelievable food drive and he would eat 24/7 if he could!!!!
Hope this isn't TMI but it seems his morning & evening poop is firm but his afternoon poop is soft often saw so I was wondering if he's eating more frequently then he needs to.

He usually poops outside on the walks and when he goes inside I'm usually around to pick it up but sometimes he goes inside without me seeing it 

I'm sure you don't share my enthusiasm but it makes me feel better to know Kylie's not alone with his is appetite for puppy Rocha!!:hungry:


----------



## Cassandra

Since we are on the subject of Havanese poop-eaters, Cassie is so eager to beat us to it, when she is outside on the grass, she turns around before she finishes, dropping the last bit somewhere hidden in the grass. I grab the first part and then she turns around to look for the last bit..I follow her with a flashlight if its is early morning or late at night to get the last one before she does.

Strangely, if she uses her indoor option during a time she is locked up because we are out of house, which is now pretty rare, she doesn't eat it and leaves it for us to clean up when we return...


----------



## LochTess

Cassandra said:


> Since we are on the subject of Havanese poop-eaters, Cassie is so eager to beat us to it, when she is outside on the grass, she turns around before she finishes, dropping the last bit somewhere hidden in the grass. I grab the first part and then she turns around to look for the last bit..I follow her with a flashlight if its is early morning or late at night to get the last one before she does.
> 
> Strangely, if she uses her indoor option during a time she is locked up because we are out of house, which is now pretty rare, she doesn't eat it and leaves it for us to clean up when we return...


LOLound:

You are so lucky she doesn't eat the inside poop!!! Can you please tell her to talk to Kylie!!


----------



## HavGracie

LochTess said:


> Many thanks Diane!!
> 
> I'm feeding Kylie 1/4 cup 3 times a day. When should I reduce the meals to 2 times a day?
> The other thing is that if I'm not there to pick up his poop Kylie will eat it:frown2:


This is the same food that I have been feeding Gracie for the last 2 years, and she seems to do well on it. Most of the time, she will poop twice a day, occasionally it's only once a day, and sometimes three times a day. They are pretty solid. If she is alone in the house and uses her UGODOG, she will sometimes play with her poop. I don't think she actually eats it, but probably "rolls it around a bit"uke:!

I think I stopped giving her lunch when she was about 7 months old. She just stopped eating it, so I stopped putting it out. Now, I think if I fed her a third meal every day, she would probably eat it!!! She's a little piggy! I give her 1/4 cup twice a day and she holds her weight around 12.8 - 13.2 lbs. she's pretty lean, but I think she has a long body, so that may account for the extra weight. When we got her, the breeder said she would probably be 12 lbs., maybe 13 lbs. Boy, she was right on the nose!!


----------



## LochTess

Thanks Connie!

It's good to know that Gracie is doing well on the Acana! Which one is she eating?
I don't think Kylie would ever turn away food at any age so I don't know when to reduce the amount of food or when to go to two meals a day. I wonder if feeding him 3/4 a cup is too much? He's eating 1/4 cup more then Gracie and he only weighs 5 pounds. When we got him at 8 weeks old he was 3 pounds and now he's over 5 pounds at 16 weeks…


----------



## Molly120213

Puppies have different caloric needs than adult dogs so the amount they eat will be more than adult dogs. The amount you are feeding sounds right to me. The feeding guide on your bag of food should also give you an indication of what to feed based on age and weight.
My last dog was fed three times a day her whole life. If I skipped the lunch time meal she would just sit in front of the cupboard where the food was and whine. The important thing is to know the amount you need to feed for the day and divide it up accordingly. If your dog keeps eating three times a day you are fine to stick with that indefinitely.


----------



## LochTess

Molly120213 said:


> Puppies have different caloric needs than adult dogs so the amount they eat will be more than adult dogs. The amount you are feeding sounds right to me. The feeding guide on your bag of food should also give you an indication of what to feed based on age and weight.
> My last dog was fed three times a day her whole life. If I skipped the lunch time meal she would just sit in front of the cupboard where the food was and whine. The important thing is to know the amount you need to feed for the day and divide it up accordingly. If your dog keeps eating three times a day you are fine to stick with that indefinitely.


 Thanks Diane!!

Kylie eats his food so fast despite the Kong wobbler and the Northmate Green Slow Feeder bowl!! Maybe breaking his meals up three times a day and using the middle meal for training is a good thing&#8230;


----------



## MarinaGirl

Molly120213 said:


> Puppies have different caloric needs than adult dogs so the amount they eat will be more than adult dogs. The amount you are feeding sounds right to me. The feeding guide on your bag of food should also give you an indication of what to feed based on age and weight.
> My last dog was fed three times a day her whole life. If I skipped the lunch time meal she would just sit in front of the cupboard where the food was and whine. The important thing is to know the amount you need to feed for the day and divide it up accordingly. If your dog keeps eating three times a day you are fine to stick with that indefinitely.


Please don't assume the recommended feeding size is accurate. Dog food companies are in the business of selling dog food so the portion sizes listed on their products may be too much for your Hav. Instead, keep an eye on your dog's weight and familiarize yourself with the Body Condition System, and adjust meals as appropriate.


----------



## Molly120213

Kylie sounds like a happy, healthy puppy so I would stick with what you are doing for now. I agree that we should keep an eye on our dogs weight, but I think a feeding guide is a good place to start for whatever type of food you are feeding. How else are we to have a starting point as far as the appropriate amount of food to feed, especially if you have a dog with a big appetite?


----------



## LochTess

Thanks Jeanne & Diane!!

Kylie is dreaming!!


----------



## HavGracie

LochTess said:


> Thanks Connie!
> 
> It's good to know that Gracie is doing well on the Acana! Which one is she eating?
> I don't think Kylie would ever turn away food at any age so I don't know when to reduce the amount of food or when to go to two meals a day. I wonder if feeding him 3/4 a cup is too much? He's eating 1/4 cup more then Gracie and he only weighs 5 pounds. When we got him at 8 weeks old he was 3 pounds and now he's over 5 pounds at 16 weeks&#8230;


Kylie is adorable!! I have been feeding Gracie the ACANA ranch land, which she does fine with. She was 6 or 7 months old when I cut her food down to twice a day. If Kylie is only 4 months old, you probably have several months to go before worrying about cutting out the third meal. And yes, Gracie was fed 3/4 cup a day when she was a puppy. I believe she was 3.2 lbs. when we brought her home at 9 weeks old. At 14 weeks she was 5.2 lbs.


----------



## krandall

Molly120213 said:


> Puppies have different caloric needs than adult dogs so the amount they eat will be more than adult dogs. The amount you are feeding sounds right to me. The feeding guide on your bag of food should also give you an indication of what to feed based on age and weight.
> My last dog was fed three times a day her whole life. If I skipped the lunch time meal she would just sit in front of the cupboard where the food was and whine. The important thing is to know the amount you need to feed for the day and divide it up accordingly. If your dog keeps eating three times a day you are fine to stick with that indefinitely.


Just be aware that dog food companies are in the business of selling dog food. The amounts listed on the bags are VERY generous... The more you feed, the more they sell! . It's fine to use that as a starting point, but then use the touch method to deterime if your dog is in good weight. Learn wheat a lean, muscled dog feels like. (Your vet can help you) You should be able to easily feel the ribs without pushing hard, with just a light covering of muscle over them. The dog should have a distinct "tuck up" behind the rib cage. On the other end of the scale, you want to make sure that the backbone and hips are covered, and not protruding.

I've attached a chart that shows what to look for, but with dogs with a lot of hair, that softens their outline, using your hands is a much better way to tell than by looking.

Of course puppies are a different story. While you don't want a FAT puppy, a tummy and a little extra padding on a puppy is not a problem. They are growing FAST and burn off a lot of calories in play. When you need to start watching their weight is when growth starts to drop off, around 10 months. (Many Havanese are close to finished growing at that point) remember, a lean dog will live a healthier, longer life!


----------



## krandall

LochTess said:


> Thanks Diane!!
> 
> Kylie eats his food so fast despite the Kong wobbler and the Northmate Green Slow Feeder bowl!! Maybe breaking his meals up three times a day and using the middle meal for training is a good thing&#8230;


It doesn't really matter how fast your dog eats, as long as they aren't choking on it. Dogs are scavengers by nature, and programmed to eat fast, before someone takes it from them! If you are using food to entertain them (my dogs train instead) then, fine, slow them down with some sort of toy feeder. But there is nothing inherently unhealthy about heating fast. Mine are all done with their meals in 30 seconds or less!


----------



## krandall

MarinaGirl said:


> Please don't assume the recommended feeding size is accurate. Dog food companies are in the business of selling dog food so the portion sizes listed on their products may be too much for your Hav. Instead, keep an eye on your dog's weight and familiarize yourself with the Body Condition System, and adjust meals as appropriate.


Oops! Should have read further before I posted!


----------



## krandall

Molly120213 said:


> Kylie sounds like a happy, healthy puppy so I would stick with what you are doing for now. I agree that we should keep an eye on our dogs weight, but I think a feeding guide is a good place to start for whatever type of food you are feeding. How else are we to have a starting point as far as the appropriate amount of food to feed, especially if you have a dog with a big appetite?


I went with the recommendation of my breeder to start with. She knows her lines better than anyone! When I switched mine to a different food, I used the calories in that serving size of the old food to calculate how much of the new food to feed. Then I adjust up or down based on body condition.


----------



## LochTess

krandall said:


> I went with the recommendation of my breeder to start with. She knows her lines better than anyone! When I switched mine to a different food, I used the calories in that serving size of the old food to calculate how much of the new food to feed. Then I adjust up or down based on body condition.


 Thanks Karen!! Kylie walks between 5-7 miles a day so I think anything extra is OK and I will adust if he starts to look a little too pudgy...

These guys are so smart!! Now in the morning when I bring Kylie out of his crate to P & P in his xpen potty system he will pee first then wait for me to go to the bathroom so he can poop and eat it...:frown2: I guess he needs to train me to wait until after he's done doing both before I get to go&#8230; Sorry probably TMI so early in the morning&#8230;


----------



## krandall

LochTess said:


> Thanks Karen!! Kylie walks between 5-7 miles a day so I think anything extra is OK and I will adust if he starts to look a little too pudgy...


How old is Kylie? I thought he was about Panda's age? That's really too much forced exercise for a puppy. A coupe of 20 minute to half hour walks is fine, especially if they are at his pace. But you can do irreversible damage to his soft bones, immature joints and ligaments by too heavy exercise too young. It's better to let him exercise as he sees fit, running around in the yard or in the house to get rid of the excess energy. 5-7 miles is a LOT for any puppy, especially a short legged, small breed puppy.



LochTess said:


> These guys are so smart!! Now in the morning when I bring Kylie out of his crate to P & P in his xpen potty system he will pee first then wait for me to go to the bathroom so he can poop and eat it...:frown2: I guess he needs to train me to wait until after he's done doing both before I get to go&#8230; Sorry probably TMI so early in the morning&#8230;


Or... You go to the bathroom FIRST, THEN get him out of his crate. He can wait the extra 30 seconds!


----------



## Annabellam

I think he's super cute!


----------



## LochTess

krandall said:


> How old is Kylie? I thought he was about Panda's age? That's really too much forced exercise for a puppy. A coupe of 20 minute to half hour walks is fine, especially if they are at his pace. But you can do irreversible damage to his soft bones, immature joints and ligaments by too heavy exercise too young. It's better to let him exercise as he sees fit, running around in the yard or in the house to get rid of the excess energy. 5-7 miles is a LOT for any puppy, especially a short legged, small breed puppy.
> 
> OMG I had no idea and the vet never said anything about it:-( The walks are slow and broken up throughout the whole day. I never force him to walk infact he would go longer if he had his way. He has so much energy and he really loves the walks!!:-(


----------



## LochTess

Annabellam said:


> I think he's super cute!


 Thank you and Kylie thanks you too!!


----------



## Laurmann2000

LochTess said:


> OMG I had no idea and the vet never said anything about it:-( The walks are slow and broken up throughout the whole day. I never force him to walk infact he would go longer if he had his way. He has so much energy and he really loves the walks!!:-(


Here is a really good article with info about puppies and exercise. I found it really helpful. 
https://puppyculture.com/tablet/appropriate-exercise.html


----------



## LochTess

Laurmann2000 said:


> Here is a really good article with info about puppies and exercise. I found it really helpful.
> https://puppyculture.com/tablet/appropriate-exercise.html


 Thank you!!


----------



## krandall

LochTess said:


> krandall said:
> 
> 
> 
> How old is Kylie? I thought he was about Panda's age? That's really too much forced exercise for a puppy. A coupe of 20 minute to half hour walks is fine, especially if they are at his pace. But you can do irreversible damage to his soft bones, immature joints and ligaments by too heavy exercise too young. It's better to let him exercise as he sees fit, running around in the yard or in the house to get rid of the excess energy. 5-7 miles is a LOT for any puppy, especially a short legged, small breed puppy.
> 
> OMG I had no idea and the vet never said anything about it:-( The walks are slow and broken up throughout the whole day. I never force him to walk infact he would go longer if he had his way. He has so much energy and he really loves the walks!!:-(
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry I said "forced" because I KNOW you would never "drag" him down the street! . But puppies get excited about being out with you, and will go farther than is good for them. I guess "structured" exercise, would be a better term. That's really too much for a pup that age, especially if it's on pavement.
Click to expand...


----------



## LochTess

Shorter walks for Mr. Kylie :-(


----------

