# COVID Vet Protocol



## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

My vet says they are still doing the COVID protocol of dropping off the dog and not being permitted inside. They told me they are continuing this permanently even after COVID. Hmmmm...just wondering what other vets are doing. Communication is difficult enough without this.


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## BoosDad (Mar 8, 2020)

I can understand the need now but not indefinitely. Unless, they think it is a cost savings measure. Does not seem like the best way to promote confidence in their services. Most vets in LA county are prohibiting contact for now but not forever. Even Boo's specialist will come outside her practice and speak to me masked from a distance. Clients also are asked to wear masks. So pretty safe.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I can't see the point of doing it forever! I would think that vets that keep doing it past when everyone is vaccinated and Covid is under control will find that they lose clientele over that practice. People want to talk to the vet directly, and people want to be there to support their animal.

Around here, it is MUCH too soon to drop Covid protocols. But I sure wouldn't be happy if they kept it up forever! I wouldn't even mind if they kept masking up for a LONG time. But I want to be able to go in with my animals.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I think blood and other tests and all are great but NOTHING beats good honest face to face communication between vet and client. In the old days vets and doctors were more focused on close examination of symptoms and behaviors. That is still valid today but is sometimes overlooked in lieu of a bunch of fancy test results. A few years ago I had a paralyzed vocal cord following a flu shot. After going to several doctors who just prescribed drugs (without knowing root cause), I went to one old school doctor who looked down my throat with a plain old mirror and diagnosed it correctly. Sometimes “simple” works. He did not need to stick a camera down my throat! And he did not tell me there Is no way I could have a paralyzed vocal cord...that is just too rare.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

We all have choices when it comes to Vets. If a Vet told me that I would not be able to attend Ricky while in his office, even after restrictions are lifted, I would be looking for another Vet, stat!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> We all have choices when it comes to Vets. If a Vet told me that I would not be able to attend Ricky while in his office, even after restrictions are lifted, I would be looking for another Vet, stat!


Good point. However, this could get complicated. Many things go into choosing a vet. For me this would be an important consideration, but not the ONLY one. I have not checked other vets in the area to see what they are doing. However, we are moving later this year so I will be changing vets anyway.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Okay, I have strong feelings on this. I think it’s rooted in my frustration that there are still enormous misconceptions about how covid is spread, not just among “anti-maskers” but among people who are taking it seriously. And since it’s not really about covid, maybe I’m being unfair and I’ll come around to it. 

I have a problem with is it being standard practice. I think it’s great to offer it as an optional service. I don’t have any problem dropping off my dog for vaccinations or other quick treatments. But I’m paying the vet at health checkups for a consultation with the professional, for myself and my dog. Maybe it bothers me more because I’m not a phone person so that would not be adequate for me. 

If I’m being honest, I have problem with it being “standard” to drop pets off for ALL veterinary care during covid, too. I feel like it’s become an excuse to avoid pet parents. Many situations are perfectly fine to drop off a pet, but in situations where there is uncertainty or they’re trying to solve a complex problem, there is plenty of PPE to allow a single pet parent in the room. Video calls and voice calls are fantastic, and reduce everyone’s risk for routine care, but they do not replace in person communication in complex situations. 

And if I’m being REALLY honest, I think of so many example of when vets didn’t follow through on the type of vaccination, or a tech does something unusual, and I’m uncomfortable with dropping my pet off even during covid, but the difference is that I accept it, absolutely. If doctors, dentists, orthodontists, physical therapists are able to be open and have access to PPE and have safety procedures in place, why can’t vets? I had an emergency root canal a month or so ago and they changed clothes in a special room between patients and had special scheduling procedures in place. They screened patients. And quite frankly, they’re at higher risk, in someone’s mouth, than a typical doctor’s office. 

I remember this coming up when we took Sundance to be seen for an emergency after Thanksgiving. The receptionist had the waiting room split down the middle, so there were two different people in the waiting room about 12 feet apart. When someone else came in, they had to wait in their car until someone else went to a room. After DH went to the exam room, the receptionist cleaned his half of the waiting room. Every veterinary office I’ve been to has large exam rooms, with a peninsula counter and a kitchenette type area for hand washing and storage, and there is plenty of space to social distance. To be fair, I’ve only been to 3 vet offices! Ventilation is not an issue because they already prioritize ventilation to minimize odors. 

To me, it seems like offices that aren’t able to do things like this, should qualify for special funding or loans to make upgrades. At the beginning of covid I had more empathy regarding this, but when vets start talking about doing this long term, I think, these upgrades are part of owning a business. Time to build bigger exam rooms.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I have a problem with is it being standard practice. I think it’s great to offer it as an optional service. I don’t have any problem dropping off my dog for vaccinations or other quick treatments. But I’m paying the vet at health checkups for a consultation with the professional, for myself and my dog. Maybe it bothers me more because I’m not a phone person so that would not be adequate for me.


The problem EvaE is that your opinion is contrary to science. If we ALL can put up with this inconvenience for another 6 months. we can collectively beat Covid. Sure, you can wear a mask and separate if you were to go to the Vet in person at this time, but you have no knowledge of that person who was in the Vet's office just before you. Were they as careful as you are? Gambling that they were, puts other members of your family at risk if you become a carrier.

Ricky is due for his annual check-up. I have an appointment to drop him off at the Vet while I wait in the car. I expect and require that next year I will have an "in person" appointment.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> The problem EvaE is that your opinion is contrary to science. If we ALL can put up with this inconvenience for another 6 months. we can collectively beat Covid. Sure, you can wear a mask and separate if you were to go to the Vet in person at this time, but you have no knowledge of that person who was in the Vet's office just before you. Were they as careful as you are? Gambling that they were, puts other members of your family at risk if you become a carrier.
> 
> Ricky is due for his annual check-up. I have an appointment to drop him off at the Vet while I wait in the car. I expect and require that next year I will have an "in person" appointment.


It’s been a long time since I’ve been so furious at such a blatant misrepresentation of what I said. It is completely inflammatory to say that my “opinion is contrary to science.” I’m not ignorant, nor do I misunderstand covid. I don’t judge YOU for your decisions that would not be realistic for my family. I haven’t seen my parents in over a YEAR so I take great offense at the implication that going to the vet’s office with my pet is irresponsible.

It’s also scientifically proven that transmission of covid can be prevented, and not just through isolation.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Besides the fact that we are not talking about whether or not the patients before or after took proper precautions. It’s not about whether or not an INDIVIDUAL chooses to take a risk or not. It’s the policy of the vet’s office I disagree with, and that is my VALID opinion. The fact that the spread of covid has been completely misunderstood is not my opinion, it is fact.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I don’t even care anymore, I’m done holding my tongue. How do you not understand that covid is not being spread at the vet’s office and the doctor’s office with proper PPE? It’s not being spread at the grocery store between an employee and customer separated by plexiglass and wearing masks and using hand sanitizer! It’s being spread between the employees eating lunch together and becoming complacent. It’s being spread by people not wearing masks and LYING about it. It’s being spread by people holding family gatherings on the down low. The reason all of the other cases make the news is because it’s is uncommon! If people would stop doing THESE THINGS for 1 month, not 6, we could do ALL of these things with proper social distancing and masks! Regardless of vaccination.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> The problem EvaE is that your opinion is contrary to science. If we ALL can put up with this inconvenience for another 6 months. we can collectively beat Covid. Sure, you can wear a mask and separate if you were to go to the Vet in person at this time, but you have no knowledge of that person who was in the Vet's office just before you. Were they as careful as you are? Gambling that they were, puts other members of your family at risk if you become a carrier.
> 
> Ricky is due for his annual check-up. I have an appointment to drop him off at the Vet while I wait in the car. I expect and require that next year I will have an "in person" appointment.


 The paragraph you quoted was specifically regarding AFTER covid. So maybe before you label me as not understanding science, make sure you understand what I actually wrote. I specifically separated how I feel about the permanent policy, from how I feel about it during covid, and why I feel like there should be more effort to allow safe visits with pet parents in emergencies.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Okay, I have strong feelings on this. I think it’s rooted in my frustration that there are still enormous misconceptions about how covid is spread, not just among “anti-maskers” but among people who are taking it seriously. And since it’s not really about covid, maybe I’m being unfair and I’ll come around to it.
> 
> I have a problem with is it being standard practice. I think it’s great to offer it as an optional service. I don’t have any problem dropping off my dog for vaccinations or other quick treatments. But I’m paying the vet at health checkups for a consultation with the professional, for myself and my dog. Maybe it bothers me more because I’m not a phone person so that would not be adequate for me.
> 
> ...


I think you hit it on the head perfectly. Thank you for this post.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I have been thinking about this all day, and I have gone back and forth about whether to drop it or make some clarifications. I’m sorry for derailing mudpuppymama’s post by being defensive. After this, I’m letting it go. 

First, I want to say that I believe the purpose of any forum or place of learning and collaboration is for people to be honest and open about their opinions and their experiences. The way people grow and learn, is from the discussions that take place when people do so. Believe it or not, I am 100% on board with covid safety. I spend way too much time on the forum in part because I’m completely isolated from adults other than my husband. I haven’t seen another adult in maybe a month. So while I overreacted by taking it personally, it comes from a place of being genuinely shocked that anyone could possibly believe I would ever put anyone else or my family at risk, or that I minimize the impact of covid. What I think is absolutely wrong in our country is the way that people are treated and judged for their decisions, both regarding their pets and covid. We will NEVER make progress encouraging people to wear masks and get vaccinated, if people are judged and labeled. Shaming people leads them to lying about noncompliance with masks and social distancing and has led to an enormous amount of spread because people are dishonest about exposure. I will NEVER treat people like that. If I have, please shame me for it. I go out of my way to consider the challenges different people face when it comes to all of these things, and to say things carefully. I’m not always successful. If that gives the impression that I don’t take covid seriously, I don’t even know what to say. I’m trying to be empathetic. I’m trying to make people feel better about their anxieties, and to understand that this is complicated, and to not use all or nothing thinking. I realize it shouldn’t hurt my feelings, but I see the members of this forum as real people I care about, and I can’t believe anyone would know me and think that. I’ve been reminded people don’t know me, and it makes me realize I am too invested.

Regarding mudpuppymama’s original post, I think there are two separate issues, the policies during covid and after. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear on that. Mudpuppymama posted specifically about the policy after covid. I do not believe it’s a good idea to continue dropping off pets after covid. I think it’s dangerous. I think it’s fantastic that virtual visits or dropping pets off had become more realistic for many types of situations. I don’t like it becoming permanent policy in all situations, I’m personally not comfortable with it. 

Lastly, my thoughts about vet visits during covid have always been open, just not to judgement about whether or not I’m putting my family at risk by going. But I do really hope I haven’t derailed a potential conversation about this. I want to hear about people’s first hand experiences, and I don’t want to stifle that. Have vets given specific reasons why they don’t allow a family member during diagnostic visits? Are there dangers and risks beyond what we experience at the doctor’s office that I wouldn’t see? (I’m not going to defend whether or not it’s okay to go to the doctor’s office. First of all it’s regional, so in some places it isn’t. Every specialist we see has said it’s okay to go to the doctors office, we must go, and we see some of the best specialists in the world because of my son’s rare condition). How regional are the policies, and how do they connect to covid rates in different regions? Someone mentioned in the past that some exam rooms are small, is this common across the country? Do veterinary offices still experience shortages with PPE? Is it difficult for staff members at veterinary offices to maintain distances? Is it possible for offices with small offices to repurpose a larger room for emergency visits? I’m not exaggerating when I say the exam rooms here are the size of my kitchen, so I didn’t realize this is unusual. Are there vets who do a combination of drop off and in person visits based on the issue? Are veterinary staff and veterinarians experiencing higher rates of covid transmission? I feel like there is a lot that could be explored, obviously, and I don’t think it has to be negative. My current feelings about this are based on the information I have, and it doesn’t make sense to me, and I do find it frustrating. However to be very, very clear, while I don’t understand why we haven’t been able to move towards safer in person visits more often, and it worries me, I do accept it! 

I’m done, I can let it go now.


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## GoWithTheFlo (Oct 11, 2018)

The current Covid set up at my vets is we wait in the courtyard outside, ring reception to let them know we are there, vets comes out and has quick discussion, collects animal, we wait in courtyard, vet returns animal and discusses appointment findings/treatment etc. It works well for us at the moment, although I do miss being ‘in’ during the appointment as you generally chat about other things that are non important but nice to have reassurance on all the same. I hope it goes back to normal once enough people have been vaccinated and wouldn’t have a problem wearing a mask if required to do so.

EvaElizabeth and Ricky’s Popi I think you both make good points, and am sure if everyone behaved like you guys have/do we wouldn’t be in the situation we are, certainly not to such a large extent anyway.

I think EvaElizabeth makes the fantastic point, that on this forum we _do_ all feel like we know and care about one another; it’s what makes this forum so great😊 The downside of that is if we clash a bit it can unintentionally create hurt feelings because we feel we’ve upset a friend or they have upset us.

It’s a tricky one, for example I _know_ I’m as mad as a box of frogs🐸 and have a very dry sense of humour and will often edit posts in case something hasn’t come across in the way I intended. I’m sure people who have the er “privilege“🤣 to know me in person take this into account on a regular basis and I do worry that sometimes it doesn’t translate well on here.

Am trying to think of a profound sentence to finish up on...and I haven’t got one🙄. So here’s a couple of kisses instead😘😘


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I understand the need to be safe and am a mask wearer, handwasher, rule follower but I hate these restrictions on in person appointments. And pray this will not become the new normal for vet visits.
I really want to switch vets but my vet is the only one (out of 20 closest) that allows people to bring your dog in. The only reason why I have stayed with him.
Shadow possibly could be quite sick. Or maybe not. This has started a month ago. I think we are at the point where he needs to see someone else since my vet is not a good communicator plus always too busy to answer questions. 
Shadow also gets very motion sick even with meds. I think he would not do well with call on the phone to announce your arrival, sit in the car to wait, be taken by a total stranger in full gear, to a new doctor in a strange place. Then to get a phone call about a complex situation? 
Does this sound like a good idea?
I am so frustrated over this.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Tere said:


> I understand the need to be safe and am a mask wearer, handwasher, rule follower but I hate these restrictions on in person appointments. And pray this will not become the new normal for vet visits.
> I really want to switch vets but my vet is the only one (out of 20 closest) that allows people to bring your dog in. The only reason why I have stayed with him.
> Shadow possibly could be quite sick. Or maybe not. This has started a month ago. I think we are at the point where he needs to see someone else since my vet is not a good communicator plus always too busy to answer questions.
> Shadow also gets very motion sick even with meds. I think he would not do well with call on the phone to announce your arrival, sit in the car to wait, be taken by a total stranger in full gear, to a new doctor in a strange place. Then to get a phone call about a complex situation?
> ...


The non in-person thing is bad enough for routine check ups, but I think this is totally absurd for a complex situation where it is super critical for the vet and owner to work together. WE are the ones who see the symptoms and it is our responsibility to convey this information to the vet accurately to help them. How on earth is this going to happen with a quick after the fact phone call? In addition, meeting a new vet in person and seeing them with your animal and how they communicate with you is super critical. As far as routine checkups, I would also like the vet to be on the phone with me DURING the exam. This quick after the fact phone call does not cut it with me. I find it ludicrous. We are moving soon to a different so I will have to find a new vet. The vet I am considering is holistic and I wonder if they will have in person visits because with a holistic vet a lot revolves around symptoms and communication between vet and client. This is also in a more rural area so not sure if that makes a difference.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

My vets office had the strict parking lot drop off protocols at first. They have evolved over time into waiting in your car until they call you to come in. You are brought directly into a room by a masked technician. Then you wait for the doctor to come in. We are all masked and stay distant in the exam room but I can hold my dog if needed or approach the exam table. When I check out it is with a plexiglass partition to pay the office. There is no contact with any other people bringing their pets in or out. I am comfortable and grateful for this way of doing things during Covid, just as I am comfortable seeing my doctor or going for blood work if I need to. As someone who has worked in a Microbiology lab in my younger days, I do have faith in PPE, hand washing, and the disinfection of surfaces - as well as respecting Covid enough to follow the recommended protocols of the scientists in our country. I think some Vets are taking precautions to an extreme by not allowing the masked owner in at this time of the pandemic.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

mudpuppymama said:


> My vet says they are still doing the COVID protocol of dropping off the dog and not being permitted inside. They told me they are continuing this permanently even after COVID. Hmmmm...just wondering what other vets are doing. Communication is difficult enough without this.


I'd say I'll be finding another Vet. We've been able to see our Vet throughout COVID. Everyone is Masked and our Vet makes House Visits, which we typically do since we have two dogs.

I'll note: We don't live a big urban area with millions of people.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Mikki said:


> I'd say I'll be finding another Vet. We've been able to see our Vet throughout COVID. Everyone is Masked and our Vet makes House Visits, which we typically do since we have two dogs.
> 
> I'll note: We don't live a big urban area with millions of people.


Mikki, we are moving in a couple months hopefully to our rural property. I do not want to switch vets now and then switch again in a couple months. I am not sure what the protocol is for other vets in our area. I have not checked since we are moving. I am a little fed up with current vet’s office anyway. Last time one person they carried both dogs in their arms at the same time and almost dropped one. I complained to the manager about this and said she would educate everyone. I am bringing them in soon for a recheck on their last blood test. When I made the appointment for both dogs I asked if they would be taken in on lead or carried one at a time. She told me they would do this if I request ithis specifically when I drop them off. Huh? I think I will cancel and wait until we move.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

The two pet hospitals we go request you call when you have arrived and wait in the car. The tech comes to the car to pick up your pet. After your pet has been seen the vet calls you. It's the same protocol hospitals, medical and dental offices are following here. I hope in the future the protocol can be dropped, but for now they are just doing their best to keep everyone safe as possible.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I am working with two different vets at this point, our regular, integrative practice, and Panda's repro vet. They have slightly different protocols, but VERY few vets in MA are allowing pet owners into the building. Most buildings and exam rooms here are small. (remember real-estate is VERY expensive here!) At my regular vet, you wait in the car, they come out to the car to get your creature(s) the tech calls to get any info beforehand. (just as they would before the vet comes in the rom for a regular appointment) Then the vet calls and talks to you while working with your animal, on speaker phone. so the only difference is you don't have eyes-on what's going on. With Kodi last spring, when the vet needed to show me specific rehab exercises, she brought him out on the driveway, we stayed apart, and she showed me out there. I've seen her doing lameness exams outside with owners too. So when it is NECESSARY for in person, they arrange it. Same with euthanasia. They do allow owners to come in when their animal needs to be put to sleep, or they do it in the owner's car. Whichever is better for the animal/owner.

At the repro vet, they have a covered verandah on the side of the building, and except on the very coldest days, the vet has come out to talk to me there. So I haven't been INSIDE with Panda, but I've still had face-time with the vet, which is nice, because I don't have the relationship I have with my regular vet. I know my regular vet well enough that I really haven't minded the phone call system. I trust her implicitly, and so do my dogs.

We are getting SO CLOSE to the end now! If one staff member get sick with Covid right now, the entire practice would need to quarantine, because they cannot socially distance in their tight spaces, though of course they DO use PPE. But they have to be RIGHT in each other's faces holding struggling animals, etc. If the entire practice is quarantined, NO ONE'S animals get taken care of. They re not considered "essential workers" and some of their staff are VERY young and will be at the tail end of getting vaccinated. So I am fine with the way they are going things now.

I KNOW that neither of the practices I use will continue with the current practice once Covid is over. Both practices cater to highly educated clientele who are very involved with their pet's care. They use these practices specifically BECASUE they are very involved with their animals' care. I am sure they know they would lose MANY clients if they were not allowed back in after Covid. But right now, I think most people understand and WANT them to be safe so they can be there to take care of our animals.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

GoWithTheFlo said:


> The current Covid set up at my vets is we wait in the courtyard outside, ring reception to let them know we are there, vets comes out and has quick discussion, collects animal, we wait in courtyard, vet returns animal and discusses appointment findings/treatment etc. It works well for us at the moment, although I do miss being ‘in’ during the appointment as you generally chat about other things that are non important but nice to have reassurance on all the same. I hope it goes back to normal once enough people have been vaccinated and wouldn’t have a problem wearing a mask if required to do so.


I think the quick in person meeting outside is a fantastic solution! Just out of curiosity, is it a covered area? Although if it was just a couple of minutes in a designated area, not just standing in the parking lot, weather wouldn’t be an issue. It’s sunny here today. I would definitely prefer this vs. phone, I just don’t hear well over the phone. When DS was diagnosed with hearing loss in one ear and auditory processing (it’s related to kidneys), it was suddenly very clear why I hate talking on the phone!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Molly120213 said:


> My vets office had the strict parking lot drop off protocols at first. They have evolved over time into waiting in your car until they call you to come in. You are brought directly into a room by a masked technician. Then you wait for the doctor to come in. We are all masked and stay distant in the exam room but I can hold my dog if needed or approach the exam table. When I check out it is with a plexiglass partition to pay the office. There is no contact with any other people bringing their pets in or out. I am comfortable and grateful for this way of doing things during Covid, just as I am comfortable seeing my doctor or going for blood work if I need to. As someone who has worked in a Microbiology lab in my younger days, I do have faith in PPE, hand washing, and the disinfection of surfaces - as well as respecting Covid enough to follow the recommended protocols of the scientists in our country. I think some Vets are taking precautions to an extreme by not allowing the masked owner in at this time of the pandemic.


I think this is perfect. This is how doctor’s visits are here. Specialty visits at the children’s hospital are staggered so there’s no one else in the waiting room. Something one of our specialists said is that it’s important to continue our regular visits in part to prevent hospitalization.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Heather's said:


> The two pet hospitals we go request you call when you have arrived and wait in the car. The tech comes to the car to pick up your pet. After your pet has been seen the vet calls you. It's the same protocol hospitals, medical and dental offices are following here. I hope in the future the protocol can be dropped, but for now they are just doing their best to keep everyone safe as possible.


Do you think the procedures relate to the color code of your area? If you had to guess, do you think they’ll gradually step down as the color codes go down or wait and do it all at once?


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> The non in-person thing is bad enough for routine check ups, but I think this is totally absurd for a complex situation where it is super critical for the vet and owner to work together. WE are the ones who see the symptoms and it is our responsibility to convey this information to the vet accurately to help them. How on earth is this going to happen with a quick after the fact phone call? In addition, meeting a new vet in person and seeing them with your animal and how they communicate with you is super critical. As far as routine checkups, I would also like the vet to be on the phone with me DURING the exam. This quick after the fact phone call does not cut it with me. I find it ludicrous. We are moving soon to a different so I will have to find a new vet. The vet I am considering is holistic and I wonder if they will have in person visits because with a holistic vet a lot revolves around symptoms and communication between vet and client. This is also in a more rural area so not sure if that makes a difference.


Do you think the veterinary office that’s planning to do these visits long term is planning on implementing some kind of video call for the visit? I still don’t see how it could completely substitute for in person visits, but without some kind of visual it seems pretty crazy. People would never accept it from pediatrician offices, and most children can speak!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> If one staff member get sick with Covid right now, the entire practice would need to quarantine, because they cannot socially distance in their tight spaces, though of course they DO use PPE. But they have to be RIGHT in each other's faces holding struggling animals, etc. If the entire practice is quarantined, NO ONE'S animals get taken care of. They re not considered "essential workers" and some of their staff are VERY young and will be at the tail end of getting vaccinated. So I am fine with the way they are going things now.


This makes a lot of sense to me and fills in some of the holes in information. Especially because I’m familiar with the procedures for how frequently people have to change their PPE. I did not realize that veterinary offices are not considered essential workers. I think they are here? Groomers were closed and they changed that early on, before they opened salons and other similar services, but only if they could establish a way to drop off without contact. We’ve only had grooming twice, and we drop off outside. How sad is it that I completely trust my groomer alone with my Havanese but not my vet, even though I really like him? It makes me wonder what would need to happen for me to have that kind of confidence in a veterinary office.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Do you think the procedures relate to the color code of your area? If you had to guess, do you think they’ll gradually step down as the color codes go down or wait and do it all at once?


We don't even HAVE "color codes" I never even heard of that until reading this thread! LOL! We have "phase numbers" and the phases can have letters to break them down further. It's really complicated, and IMO kind of stupid, because every time they have more space in the hospitals, they let people get together more, so they can fill the hospitals back up again. At least that's what it feels like to me...


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> We don't even HAVE "color codes" I never even heard of that until reading this thread! LOL! We have "phase numbers" and the phases can have letters to break them down further. It's really complicated, and IMO kind of stupid, because every time they have more space in the hospitals, they let people get together more, so they can fill the hospitals back up again. At least that's what it feels like to me...


They had color codes here and they stopped, because there was so much feedback that it was confusing. They moved to a more generic labeling system. But the reason it was confusing is because the counties here are vastly different in demographic and case counts so people were really struggling to follow what the restrictions were county to county. What they really needed to do was emphasize how to follow the status of each county and why they could be different.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> They had color codes here and they stopped, because there was so much feedback that it was confusing. They moved to a more generic labeling system. But the reason it was confusing is because the counties here are vastly different in demographic and case counts so people were really struggling to follow what the restrictions were county to county. What they really needed to do was emphasize how to follow the status of each county and why they could be different.


While the state has done a TERRIBLE job on there vaccine roll-out, and I am not in agreement with the governor's decision with how much he is opening things back up now, I DO like the way they are reporting on Covid on their website. They have a town-by-town and county-by-county interactive map showing number of cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc. And it is updated weekly. (the state counts are updated daily)


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## BoosDad (Mar 8, 2020)

My two cents - I have always sensed that the main reason veterinarians in California have gone to no-person in the office is because of the fear of potential lawsuits, if someone visited the business and ended up dying of covid-19. While it certainly might be difficult to prove that someone contracted covid-19 from the vet's office, it is not impossible. We haven's seen vast amounts of litigation around this in California. I know some States have gone as far as to pass legislation to protect businesses from covid-19 lawsuits. Also, some businesses are requiring people to sign waivers of liability, in case they contract covid-19. Plus, as Krandall pointed out, if someone in a vet office got covid-19, it would result in closing the entire practices. At least in my community, some people would be hesitant to use that vet again after a covid-19 closure. 

Though I don't love it, I think many vets have just decided that it avoids a lot of problems, if they just don't allow clients into the office. I can understand this thinking to a certain extent. Most vets are small businesses that could be wiped out, if a client was successful in a covid-19 lawsuit, whereas, in California, most human doctors, are in large medical practices that could absorb a lawsuit. Further, in Los Angeles, many doctor's offices also regulate, who can accompany the patient or enter the hospital. Recently, my 90-year old mother was in the hospital for a week, due to a brain hemorrhage. No one was allowed to visit her because of the covid- 19 restrictions. I was just lucky that my brother is a doctor with medical privileges at that hospital. So, my mother was not all alone.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Do you think the veterinary office that’s planning to do these visits long term is planning on implementing some kind of video call for the visit? I still don’t see how it could completely substitute for in person visits, but without some kind of visual it seems pretty crazy. People would never accept it from pediatrician offices, and most children can speak!


I have no idea, but I need face to face! I could deal with a video temporarily but a quick after the fact phone call is unacceptable! I can even deal with audio ONLY during but not after the visit.


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## GoWithTheFlo (Oct 11, 2018)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I think the quick in person meeting outside is a fantastic solution! Just out of curiosity, is it a covered area? Although if it was just a couple of minutes in a designated area, not just standing in the parking lot, weather wouldn’t be an issue. It’s sunny here today. I would definitely prefer this vs. phone, I just don’t hear well over the phone. When DS was diagnosed with hearing loss in one ear and auditory processing (it’s related to kidneys), it was suddenly very clear why I hate talking on the phone!


I would say about half of it is covered with a sideless gazebo. There are also signs up reminding people to wear a mask, all staff are in masks. I have been 4 times during Covid ; 1 x vaccinations for the bunnies, 1 x vaccinations for Flo, 2 x The case of the (possible) Mysterious Camera Shy Luxating Patella. I always wear a mask and hand sanitise beforehand (out of polite Covid etiquette for others) and then straight away afterwards for my own protection. On the occasions I have been most people are in masks. I make sure to stand away as far as I can from people (the rule is 2 metres here) and try not to think about it too much. 

I hope they do eventually discover *exactly* what it is that makes some people more susceptible than others as I just find the whole thing so bizarre. I have friends of friends who have tragically lost people to Covid, another friend of mine who has no idea how she caught it as she was only going out for exercise and getting most of her shopping delivered, but fortunately she has made a full recovery. Then on the otherhand I know of two families where the teenager has picked it up and no one else in the house has had symptoms or tested positive! It just makes very little sense to me how things can vary so dramatically.

Sorry I know I’ve gone off on a bit of a tangent...bet you wish you hadn’t asked now🤣

For those of you who aren’t sure when/if you will stop wearing facemasks I see your facemask and raise you a dog poo bag turned inside out and used as a glove to touch ANYTHING when I am out and about...I _really _hope I can get out of _that_ habit by this time next year!🤣😘


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

My vet's office has a terrible phone system that the vet apparently doesn't know how to use. He cut me off 4 times in a conversation, only once in another. All this calling back takes time.
I don't trust my vet's office either. Last time, they were going to give Shadow the shot with Lepto in it. I happened to notice. My vet does not read his notes and forgets to check things til I mention it. Lots of vets in normal times take the dog to another room to examine. That does not sit well with me either. Too many mistakes/shortcuts.
My groomer I trust with my dog but she doesn't always do what I ask! She is more competent that my vet's office though and probably keeps better records.


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## BoosDad (Mar 8, 2020)

Tere said:


> My vet's office has a terrible phone system that the vet apparently doesn't know how to use. He cut me off 4 times in a conversation, only once in another. All this calling back takes time.
> I don't trust my vet's office either. Last time, they were going to give Shadow the shot with Lepto in it. I happened to notice. My vet does not read his notes and forgets to check things til I mention it. Lots of vets in normal times take the dog to another room to examine. That does not sit well with me either. Too many mistakes/shortcuts.
> My groomer I trust with my dog but she doesn't always do what I ask! She is more competent that my vet's office though and probably keeps better records.


Like some human doctors, some veterinarians are not very good at communicating with pet owners. In my experience, younger veterinarians seem more willing to listen and discuss potential problems. Generally speaking, they probably have more knowledge about newer treatments. I hope that you are able to find someone, who works better with you.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

Boos Dad, I think I've decided on the next vet finally. He is not young but I hope he is sensible and can lead me in the right direction. He is also not too far away, 7 miles which is 15 to 45 minutes depending on traffic & the time of day. I've heard a lot of good things about him. 
I tend to like experience over cutting edge. We shall see. Calling first thing Monday and hope for a quick appt.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> I have no idea, but I need face to face! I could deal with a video temporarily but a quick after the fact phone call is unacceptable! I can even deal with audio ONLY during but not after the visit.


I wonder why more veterinary offices haven’t invested in video call technology for covid. Are people just not interested? My vet’s office uses iPads for their POS, but they are able to do in person visits. They do offer drop off, though. Our pediatrician’s office and the hospitals here all use iPads for paperwork and consent. I suppose it could be risky to hand an ipad for someone to use in the parking lot if they don’t have a compatible device to video chat, but their names are on file, and maybe I think too highly of people but I really think for the most part theft would not be an issue, or could be managed. Not everyone would be interested in a video call during their visit anyway, but it would make a huge difference for many people. Yes, it’s an investment, but they wouldn’t need many, a vet can only do one video call at a time. I would definitely pay extra for a video visit during covid, but I think it would be a nice gesture to offer it for free if the office could afford to.

If in person visits continue to be restricted through this winter, many people will have two years in a row of check-ups without an in person consultation. Even without complicated diagnostic visits to consider, I think vets must be concerned about that. Outside of covid, it’s strange to me that an office wouldn’t be worried about the consequences.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Do you think the procedures relate to the color code of your area? If you had to guess, do you think they’ll gradually step down as the color codes go down or wait and do it all at once?


 The color codes are directing protocols and openings. It will probably depend on whether the variants become more widespread. I'm starting to feel that it's going to be quite awhile before life becomes normal again.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I am hoping that Covid is over here soon in Florida. Population 22 million, 3.5 million vaccinated so far. 
Whoever thought Covid would still be destroying every segment of our lives for over a year? Not me.


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## BoosDad (Mar 8, 2020)

Tere said:


> I am hoping that Covid is over here soon in Florida. Population 22 million, 3.5 million vaccinated so far.
> Whoever thought Covid would still be destroying every segment of our lives for over a year? Not me.


My uncle and cousin have a winter home in Naples, Florida. Some how, my cousin contracted covid-19 in November 2020, and ended up in the hospital for two weeks. He is 45 and a body-builder with no known medical problems, So, it is unclear why he got such a bad case. Maybe, he got a big dose of the virus?? Just keep wearing your mask and social distancing until this is over for good.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

GoWithTheFlo said:


> For those of you who aren’t sure when/if you will stop wearing facemasks I see your facemask and raise you a dog poo bag turned inside out and used as a glove to touch ANYTHING when I am out and about...I _really _hope I can get out of _that_ habit by this time next year!🤣😘


We already decided as a family to assume we’ll be wearing masks through next winter. Maybe all age groups will be vaccinated earlier than anticipated. The estimates on the timeline for children are all over the place, even with trials finishing up, because current vaccination rates of adults are all over the place. We’re hoping for a mask mandate in middle school through the winter unless 16 and under are vaccinated, because it was DD’s experience that most teenagers didn’t mask unless mandated, and many of her friends’ parents thought they masked but they didn’t, or only over their mouth. DS will be immunized by then but DD will be 15 and still in middle school, and my prediction is that any spread next fall and winter will come from 13-15 year olds because they think they’re invincible! She is in good health and young so my concern is less for her.

Today DH and I ran errands for the first time in a couple of weeks, since before they announced the next eligible group for vaccination. I was surprised to see an adult with teenage children coming out of the store without masks. It was strange since the mask mandate has not been lifted and the store has a mask policy.

I don’t carry anything in stores with me except for my phone and one card now so I don’t have to worry about touching stuff or putting things down! I found this slim hand sanitizer that’s like a credit card and I keep refilling it so after I touch a door or something I can use that. I’d probably go through less hand sanitizer with poop bags instead because it’s hard to fill the weird case and I spill a lot!


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## GoWithTheFlo (Oct 11, 2018)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I don’t carry anything in stores with me except for my phone and one card now so I don’t have to worry about touching stuff or putting things down! I found this slim hand sanitizer that’s like a credit card and I keep refilling it so after I touch a door or something I can use that. I’d probably go through less hand sanitizer with poop bags instead because it’s hard to fill the weird case and I spill a lot!


Lol I haven’t whipped out my trusty poo bags in a shop...yet🤣🤣. I tend to use them for things outside that I know other people will have touched like gates to get into the park or the poo bin handles in the park.

At the beginning of Covid I _was_ using disposable gloves, PLUS sanitiser just before putting them on and straight away after removing them, to go food shopping...but then you’d get into this weird conundrum at the checkout of having to touch your own card and purse (which I didn’t want to do with contaminated gloves) but also the key pad on the card machine which other people would have *definitely *also touched😂😂 it’s not really funny but looking back I’d like to see a video of me trying to figure it all out🙄😁

Now I just sanitise before and after...and have the hands of a 90 year old😘


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

GoWithTheFlo said:


> Lol I haven’t whipped out my trusty poo bags in a shop...yet🤣🤣. I tend to use them for things outside that I know other people will have touched like gates to get into the park or the poo bin handles in the park.
> 
> At the beginning of Covid I _was_ using disposable gloves, PLUS sanitiser just before putting them on and straight away after removing them, to go food shopping...but then you’d get into this weird conundrum at the checkout of having to touch your own card and purse (which I didn’t want to do with contaminated gloves) but also the key pad on the card machine which other people would have *definitely *also touched😂😂 it’s not really funny but looking back I’d like to see a video of me trying to figure it all out🙄😁
> 
> Now I just sanitise before and after...and have the hands of a 90 year old😘


Towards the beginning of covid, before they started recommending masks and everything, DH was at the grocery store and the person in front of him was wearing full protective gear and when he went to pay with his card, he pulled his gloves off with his teeth.

I knew my hands were dry from all of the hand sanitizer but I didn’t really get it for months. I kept ordering hand lotion from different places and then giving it to my 14 year old daughter because I thought it wasn’t working. I mean, seriously like 6 progressively more expensive hand creams. Lately I do lotion and then cuticle oil over my whole hands! I think the damage is permanent because I don’t think I’ll ever break my hand sanitizer habit.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I have no idea, but I need face to face! I could deal with a video temporarily but a quick after the fact phone call is unacceptable! I can even deal with audio ONLY during but not after the visit.


The thing is, MANY people are not tech-savvy enough to handle video calls. We can't even do it among our family without having a younger family member as "support staff" for each older family member. And there are a LOT of dog people I know who are my age who want no part of that level of technology. I honestly am not sure what advantage there is to an after-visit video. In SOME instances, I can see where it would be useful while the dog is there, but when it's just face-to-face between the humans? Not so much. What is there to see?

During the summer, when I was having to do Kodi's rehab work at home, I sent videos of Kodi's exercises to my vet ahead of our appointments so she could see what he was doing and what he (and I!) were struggling with. But we would probably have had to do that even if we'd been doing in-person appointments, because I'm not sure I could have re-created the problems we were having in the office. So that is always another option. I've often, in the past, video taped odd behavior of my pets for my vet to see and emailed it to her.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

BoosDad said:


> Like some human doctors, some veterinarians are not very good at communicating with pet owners. In my experience, younger veterinarians seem more willing to listen and discuss potential problems. Generally speaking, they probably have more knowledge about newer treatments. I hope that you are able to find someone, who works better with you.


These conversations make me SOOOO grateful for my veterinarians!!! I am SO lucky to have total faith in them. Mostly in my regular et, but even in the others in her staff if she's not around. They are ALL trained in gentle, fear-free methods, minimal vaccine protocols and look at things from a an integrative perspective, which fits my view perfectly. I love SOME things about holistic and eastern medicine, but I am not one who has any interest in throwing out the benefits of western medicine either.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tere said:


> Boos Dad, I think I've decided on the next vet finally. He is not young but I hope he is sensible and can lead me in the right direction. He is also not too far away, 7 miles which is 15 to 45 minutes depending on traffic & the time of day. I've heard a lot of good things about him.
> I tend to like experience over cutting edge. We shall see. Calling first thing Monday and hope for a quick appt.


While my vet is my age or a bit younger, one of the most sensible, best red vets I've ever met just retired, and he was close to 80 when he retired. So age is not always the deciding factor! 

... And my vet is 35 minutes up the highway one way for me, and worth every second of that drive!!! (I pass dozens of practices to get there)


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> The thing is, MANY people are not tech-savvy enough to handle video calls. We can't even do it among our family without having a younger family member as "support staff" for each older family member. And there are a LOT of dog people I know who are my age who want no part of that level of technology. I honestly am not sure what advantage there is to an after-visit video. In SOME instances, I can see where it would be useful while the dog is there, but when it's just face-to-face between the humans? Not so much. What is there to see?
> 
> During the summer, when I was having to do Kodi's rehab work at home, I sent videos of Kodi's exercises to my vet ahead of our appointments so she could see what he was doing and what he (and I!) were struggling with. But we would probably have had to do that even if we'd been doing in-person appointments, because I'm not sure I could have re-created the problems we were having in the office. So that is always another option. I've often, in the past, video taped odd behavior of my pets for my vet to see and emailed it to her.


I agree that an after the fact video is useless. I really don’t like after the fact anything. I do agree that video a pet’s behavior for a particular problem is absolutely critical and the client’s responsibility to provide meaningful information to the vet to help them. We cannot expect a dog to illicit certain behaviors in the office. So we as clients have a huge responsibility because we are the ones that see them every day. However, my previous vet did do a great job at checkups. We discussed all sorts of things regarding behavior, new tiny bumps that may have appeared, diet, etc. Things like this are better discussed during the exam IMO and are a critical part of the annual exam. Not just a blood test and looking at numbers.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> These conversations make me SOOOO grateful for my veterinarians!!! I am SO lucky to have total faith in them. Mostly in my regular et, but even in the others in her staff if she's not around. They are ALL trained in gentle, fear-free methods, minimal vaccine protocols and look at things from a an integrative perspective, which fits my view perfectly. I love SOME things about holistic and eastern medicine, but I am not one who has any interest in throwing out the benefits of western medicine either.


I had a previous holistic vet and considering another one. They do conventional medicine as well and use all sorts of integrative techniques. I do not know of any holistic vet that is a true homeopath ONLY and throws conventional medicine out the window. However, there are only a few in my area so some of those may exist.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I wonder why more veterinary offices haven’t invested in video call technology for covid. Are people just not interested? My vet’s office uses iPads for their POS, but they are able to do in person visits. They do offer drop off, though. Our pediatrician’s office and the hospitals here all use iPads for paperwork and consent. I suppose it could be risky to hand an ipad for someone to use in the parking lot if they don’t have a compatible device to video chat, but their names are on file, and maybe I think too highly of people but I really think for the most part theft would not be an issue, or could be managed. Not everyone would be interested in a video call during their visit anyway, but it would make a huge difference for many people. Yes, it’s an investment, but they wouldn’t need many, a vet can only do one video call at a time. I would definitely pay extra for a video visit during covid, but I think it would be a nice gesture to offer it for free if the office could afford to.
> 
> If in person visits continue to be restricted through this winter, many people will have two years in a row of check-ups without an in person consultation. Even without complicated diagnostic visits to consider, I think vets must be concerned about that. Outside of covid, it’s strange to me that an office wouldn’t be worried about the consequences.


I suspect that the chance of infection from handing an iPad around is too great. At my rheumatologist's office, I used to have to fill out a pre-appointment symptom check on an iPad right before my appointment every time. Those iPads are nowhere in sight anymore. And I'm SURE it is to make everything contactless. I am pretty sure they want everything at the vet's office as contactless as possible too. They don't ever take my leash either. I remove my leash, and they put their own slip lead on my dog.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I agree that an after the fact video is useless. I really don’t like after the fact anything. I do agree that video a pet’s behavior for a particular problem is absolutely critical and the client’s responsibility to provide meaningful information to the vet to help them. We cannot expect a dog to illicit certain behaviors in the office. So we as clients have a huge responsibility because we are the ones that see them every day. However, my previous vet did do a great job at checkups. We discussed all sorts of things regarding behavior, new tiny bumps that may have appeared, diet, etc. Things like this are better discussed during the exam IMO and are a critical part of the annual exam. Not just a blood test and looking at numbers.


Yes, absolutely! And my vet will still give me all the time I want during my appointments, with the dogs in the room with her, with me on the phone. But your post DID make me thing, I need to be creative this week. Pixel and Kodi have their annual physical (Panda's is postponed until after puppies!) and Pixel has a TINY bump on one leg that I don't want the vet to miss. I THINK it may be a tick bite that I somehow missed the tick in her black hair and the tick fell off. But I want her to look at it. But I'll have to find a way to mark it somehow. Hmmm. Painter's tape?


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Yes, absolutely! And my vet will still give me all the time I want during my appointments, with the dogs in the room with her, with me on the phone. But your post DID make me thing, I need to be creative this week. Pixel and Kodi have their annual physical (Panda's is postponed until after puppies!) and Pixel has a TINY bump on one leg that I don't want the vet to miss. I THINK it may be a tick bite that I somehow missed the tick in her black hair and the tick fell off. But I want her to look at it. But I'll have to find a way to mark it somehow. Hmmm. Painter's tape?


This is an example of what I am talking about. The communication is more difficult and things could be missed. Once the exam is over and they missed something, then what? Wondering if you can take a picture? As long as she is on the phone during the exam, you could help remind her if she forgets to check. Or help guide her. This is all I am asking for in my vet. Once the exam is over and they miss something, I fear it will be a federal production to recheck them and throw off the vet’ schedule.

I just wanted to add...sometimes face to face does NOT guarantee good communication! There is a lot more to it. But without face to face it is definitely more challenging.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> This is an example of what I am talking about. The communication is more difficult and things could be missed. Once the exam is over and they missed something, then what? Wondering if you can take a picture? As long as she is on the phone during the exam, you could help remind her if she forgets to check. Or help guide her. This is all I am asking for in my vet. Once the exam is over and they miss something, I fear it will be a federal production to recheck them and throw off the vet’ schedule.
> 
> I just wanted to add...sometimes face to face does NOT guarantee good communication! There is a lot more to it. But without face to face it is definitely more challenging.


So your vet doesn't even talk to you when the dog is in the room? How is that supposed to work?

I don't think taking a picture of Pixel's little bump will work... black dog, black skin tiny bump and all... I can hardly see it with my eyes, it's more a "feel" thing. And I'm BETTING SHE will find it... she has AMAZING fingers! She has found things wrong on the insides of my dogs by noticing tell-tale heat on the OUTSIDE of my dogs...


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> So your vet doesn't even talk to you when the dog is in the room? How is that supposed to work?
> 
> I don't think taking a picture of Pixel's little bump will work... black dog, black skin tiny bump and all... I can hardly see it with my eyes, it's more a "feel" thing. And I'm BETTING SHE will find it... she has AMAZING fingers! She has found things wrong on the insides of my dogs by noticing tell-tale heat on the OUTSIDE of my dogs...


I drop off the dog. The vet does not talk to me while the dog is being examined. I get a call AFTER the exam is over. I switched to this vet right before COVID. I had one exam with her while in the room before COVID. This was the only time I have seen her. The last two exams were drop offs with a call afterwards. I could deal with a call DURING the exam as a temporary COVID solution. However, I cannot deal with the getting a call afterwards protocol on a permanent basis. I have to switch vets anyway very soon so the next annual checkup will be at a different vet.

I have one black dog too...makes it hard to find ticks that is for sure. If she is good she will find it. It may be helpful just to give her rough idea of location. Sounds like your vet is good but wondering how anyone switching to a new vet will know the vet is good if they never get to see her exam their dog or talk to her during the exam.

There is a holistic/integrative vet near our new house who I am going to check out after we move. No voodoo...a good holistic integrative vet supposedly who offers several therapies such as chiropractic, acupuncture, ozone therapy, nutritional counseling, etc. No voodoo.


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

I see no point in this vet practice being forever. Actually, I have an issue with it now. Why not enforce masks and distancing and limit the number of pet parents allowed in the facility. We are allowed in when we are the patient so not in the vet's office? I am allowed in the groomers but not the vet.


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

I would not keep a vet who implements this protocol permanently. I always have questions and besides, I like to witness how my dogs interact with the vet staff. You can detect a lot when watching your dog's reaction to the office personnel. Luckily, my vet does come outside and talks to me after the visit.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Vartina Ancrum said:


> I see no point in this vet practice being forever. Actually, I have an issue with it now. Why not enforce masks and distancing and limit the number of pet parents allowed in the facility. We are allowed in when we are the patient so not in the vet's office? I am allowed in the groomers but not the vet.


That's what's my vet has done all along. 

I *Wanna! *be allowed in the groomers room. I'm afraid to ask.  Maybe I will after COVID.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Thanks everyone who posted. I really needed a sanity check and you guys gave it to me!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I drop off the dog. The vet does not talk to me while the dog is being examined. I get a call AFTER the exam is over. I switched to this vet right before COVID. I had one exam with her while in the room before COVID. This was the only time I have seen her. The last two exams were drop offs with a call afterwards. I could deal with a call DURING the exam as a temporary COVID solution. However, I cannot deal with the getting a call afterwards protocol on a permanent basis. I have to switch vets anyway very soon so the next annual checkup will be at a different vet.


That’s crazy. How is the vet supposed to know what she’s supposed to examine if she doesn’t talk to the client until AFTER the dog is out of the room?!?! I wouldn’t be able to deal with that DURING Covid, let alone on-going. It just makes no sense at all!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> That’s crazy. How is the vet supposed to know what she’s supposed to examine if she doesn’t talk to the client until AFTER the dog is out of the room?!?! I wouldn’t be able to deal with that DURING Covid, let alone on-going. It just makes no sense at all!


I have been under the impression, from times it’s come up on the forum, that the phone calls were taking place after the fact, like quick check ins. I could see this for some basic exams but for a diagnostic visit or injury I did not understand how it could work.

I could have sworn there was a major vaccination issue with another member related to drop offs, and other people have implied their phone calls are after the appointment. If most people are getting a real conference call during an appointment, I completely misunderstood! I remember it being mentioned once in a while, but not often. Maybe I just assumed the rest of the time.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> I suspect that the chance of infection from handing an iPad around is too great. At my rheumatologist's office, I used to have to fill out a pre-appointment symptom check on an iPad right before my appointment every time. Those iPads are nowhere in sight anymore. And I'm SURE it is to make everything contactless. I am pretty sure they want everything at the vet's office as contactless as possible too. They don't ever take my leash either. I remove my leash, and they put their own slip lead on my dog.


Now that you mention it, more of our registration has been over the phone. But for pediatric visits I still have to sign a consent every time. It’s usually on a tablet with a case and they slide it through the plexiglass. They wipe it off when I pass it back. There are people at the hospital kiosks that disinfect the screens and give them hand sanitizer. But there are still potentially ways to prevent touch. Mounting them at outdoor benches could minimize handling if someone could wipe it down. At the grocery store they still wipe down the keypads between customers, but I could see that these kinds of things potentially require additional staff. If they can only see limited patients it could be harder to justify hiring additional employees to fill a space with more people. It’s probably easier to keep doing things the way they are now, but I’m not sure it’s the best solution, either.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> That’s crazy. How is the vet supposed to know what she’s supposed to examine if she doesn’t talk to the client until AFTER the dog is out of the room?!?! I wouldn’t be able to deal with that DURING Covid, let alone on-going. It just makes no sense at all!


Yes it is crazy. Prior to them taking my dog in, the vet tech asks me what I want examined. Then the vet tech tells the vet. Since there is no communication between me and the vet during the exam, this means I am totally dependent on the vet tech understanding me correctly and this means the vet cannot ask me for additional clarifications. More room now for communication breakdown which can be difficult enough even under the best of circumstances. Time for a new vet.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Now that you mention it, more of our registration has been over the phone. But for pediatric visits I still have to sign a consent every time. It’s usually on a tablet with a case and they slide it through the plexiglass. They wipe it off when I pass it back. There are people at the hospital kiosks that disinfect the screens and give them hand sanitizer. But there are still potentially ways to prevent touch. Mounting them at outdoor benches could minimize handling if someone could wipe it down. At the grocery store they still wipe down the keypads between customers, but I could see that these kinds of things potentially require additional staff. If they can only see limited patients it could be harder to justify hiring additional employees to fill a space with more people. It’s probably easier to keep doing things the way they are now, but I’m not sure it’s the best solution, either.


Remember when you talk about adding staff and adding work that they are ALREADY working harder with Covid. My vet friends are exhausted, and overworked. (Not ALL due to Covid) In general, people don’t value veterinary services and want to pay bargain store prices for services that basically are the same as a human would recieve going to a doctor, except that the vet (and staff also has to worry about getten bitten, scratched, peed and pooped on) Veterinary practices these days are very often owned by corporations, and the staff are just employees. If you use one of those... you can “talk to management” but that’s like talking to corporate human health care for all it will get you. If you use a small independent, as I do, you probably get a much more individualized experience, but you ALSO have to remember that that practice also probably runs on EXTREMELY tight margins. No one is making a lot of money there. They want to make a living, for sure, but they are doing it because they are committed to practicing veterinary medicine in a particular way, or they already would have sold out to big corporate, made their bundle and retired.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Yes it is crazy. Prior to them taking my dog in, the vet tech asks me what I want examined. Then the vet tech tells the vet. Since there is no communication between me and the vet during the exam, this means I am totally dependent on the vet tech understanding me correctly and this means the vet cannot ask me for additional clarifications. More room now for communication breakdown which can be difficult enough even under the best of circumstances. Time for a new vet.


Absolutely. I would not go back for seconds, or else I would have a talk with them, SAY that wasn’t acceptable to me, and INSIST that I talk to the vet with my animal in the room. All they cando is say “no”. in which case, you just don’t go back. At least that’s what I’d do. Totally unacceptable. Particularly with how poorly techs can sometimes communicate.

And it makes me feel SO blessed with _my_ vet. I remember the day Pixel had her anal gland abscess and I was trying to explain what was going on to the front desk staff and get an urgent care appointment, but with our regular vet, not just whoever was on duty. She happened to walk by the desk, herd who was on the phone and SHE oicked up and asked me what was going on. She gave up her lunch hour and told them to git Pixel in so that she could see her herself. I LOVE me vet!!!❤❤❤


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Tere said:


> *My vet's office has a terrible phone system that the vet apparently doesn't know how to use. He cut me off 4 times in a conversation, only once in another. *All this calling back takes time.
> I don't trust my vet's office either. Last time, they were going to give Shadow the shot with Lepto in it. I happened to notice. *My vet does not read his notes and forgets to check things til I mention it. * Lots of vets in normal times take the dog to another room to examine. That does not sit well with me either. Too many mistakes/shortcuts.
> *My groomer I trust with my dog but she doesn't always do what I ask! She is more competent that my vet's office though and probably keeps better records.*


Tere .... your comments are cracking me up. I needed a good Laugh. Sounds like your Vet needs to retire and you need to find someone else.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> DH was at the grocery store and the person in front of him was wearing full protective gear and when he went to pay with his card, he pulled his gloves off with his teeth.


I've often thought about using my teeth to open those microscopic thin plastic bags for vegetables at the grocery store, but I Think Again and have never done it. 



GoWithTheFlo said:


> For those of you who aren’t sure when/if you will stop wearing facemasks I see your facemask and raise you a dog poo bag turned inside out and used as a glove to touch ANYTHING when I am out and about...I _really _hope I can get out of _that_ habit by this time next year!🤣😘


*
LOL!!... As I raise my Poop Bag to You*



Tere said:


> My vet's office has a terrible phone system that the vet apparently doesn't know how to use. He cut me off 4 times in a conversation, only once in another. All this calling back takes time.
> 
> I don't trust my vet's office either. Last time, they were going to give Shadow the shot with Lepto in it. I happened to notice. My vet does not read his notes and forgets to check things til I mention it.


*This would make a good SNL skit ... *



krandall said:


> My vet friends are exhausted, and overworked. (Not ALL due to Covid) In general, people don’t value veterinary services and want to pay bargain store prices for services that basically are the same as a human would recieve going to a doctor, except that the vet (and staff also has to worry about getten bitten, scratched, peed and pooped on


Karen ... actually my Vet annual bill costs more than my annual human check up. And health care providers will disagree as they all occasionally get scratched, peed and pooped on - hopefully not bitten. After reading about the high cost of Vet Specialists I've kept my AKC Pet Insurance - Just In Case. 
That along with the annual Vet bill is a pretty good chunk of change but the groomer annual costs are more. 🤑

*Thanks! for all the entertaining comments this morning. Gave me a good Chuckle.* 🤣


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> Remember when you talk about adding staff and adding work that they are ALREADY working harder with Covid. My vet friends are exhausted, and overworked. (Not ALL due to Covid) In general, people don’t value veterinary services and want to pay bargain store prices for services that basically are the same as a human would recieve going to a doctor, except that the vet (and staff also has to worry about getten bitten, scratched, peed and pooped on) Veterinary practices these days are very often owned by corporations, and the staff are just employees. If you use one of those... you can “talk to management” but that’s like talking to corporate human health care for all it will get you. If you use a small independent, as I do, you probably get a much more individualized experience, but you ALSO have to remember that that practice also probably runs on EXTREMELY tight margins. No one is making a lot of money there. They want to make a living, for sure, but they are doing it because they are committed to practicing veterinary medicine in a particular way, or they already would have sold out to big corporate, made their bundle and retired.


It’s definitely really late in the game to implement these kinds of things, and hindsight is 20/20. I get that it’s a challenging time for small businesses, especially under-appreciated ones. It’s great that vet’s offices were able to make changes to protect their employees and others, when they aren’t even given the respect of being considered essential workers. I understand why they aren’t, but it’s kind of insulting when I think about the other fields that have been considered essential, or essential to the economy. But many of the changes seem to be short term management strategies that they’ve sustained for long periods of time, and must be difficult for them, too. If working in a veterinary office is higher risk, they will be one of the last places that return to “normal,” so small improvements could still be meaningful. I mean, the animal related “causes” that come up in some of my feeds and get a lot of publicity seem really low priority in comparison to this. It seems to come up often, in the middle of a puppy boom, although it doesn’t seem to bother a large percentage of pet owners. Veterinary offices shouldn’t have to worry about choosing between the safety of their employees and the safety of the animals they care for, even in a pandemic. If they are struggling financially during the pandemic because they have to see less patients with less staff and more responsibility, isn’t this where some of the federal funding should be going?

it also makes me wonder how much of this is related to the individual veterinarian. A really good vet is going to anticipate potential communication problems during covid and actively try to prevent them. So it may be that many people feel the phone call is adequate because the quality of the phone call is so much better.

I agree some of this comes back to how we value (or undervalue) veterinary services.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Veterinary offices shouldn’t have to worry about choosing between the safety of their employees and the safety of the animals they care for, even in a pandemic. If they are struggling financially during the pandemic because they have to see less patients with less staff and more responsibility, isn’t this where some of the federal funding should be going?


I am sure every small veterinary practice is saying "Here, here!!!"  



EvaE1izabeth said:


> it also makes me wonder how much of this is related to the individual veterinarian. A really good vet is going to anticipate potential communication problems during covid and actively try to prevent them. So it may be that many people feel the phone call is adequate because the quality of the phone call is so much better.


I think this is DEFINITELY true... I think this is why I am Ok with "dealing with it" in spite of having spent a LOT of time sitting in the vet's parking lot over the past year (for a long time WEEKLY!) during Kodi's rehab, then with Pixel's anal gland abscess and now with all the repro stuff for Panda. We've had more than our share of vet-stuff during Covid, and mostly reasonably-handled experiences. (the only one I thought could have been done better was the CERF clinic (eye exam) that I took Panda to in the fall put on by one of the local kennel clubs. WE had an assigned time we got there ahead of our appointment time and it was a disaster of inefficiency. The ONLY saving grace was that it was a warm, sunny day and another HAvanese friend was there with her dogs too, so we chit chatted through the ridiculously long wait until they realized that 4 of the dogs waiting were NOT Golden Retrievers and should have been seen an hour ago, but still hadn't had their eyes dilated! LOL!  

But again, to some extent, you get what you pay for. I paid about 1/3 for the clinic exam what I would have paid to take her to the ophthalmologist at the university vet hospital, where I'm SURE they would have been more efficient. And all I NEEDED was to have it certified that her eyes were still clear from hereditary disease. She wasn't sick.



EvaE1izabeth said:


> I agree some of this comes back to how we value (or undervalue) veterinary services.


Yep. That. I just went past our local town animal hospital, where we used to take our cat. (who didn't tolerate the long drive up to our integrative vet well. I knew the wonderful owner/vet was retiring and selling the practice. I DIDN'T realize he had sold out to Banfield. But I'd bet that the majority of "pet people" in our town won't care and won't know the difference. Won't know that they are now being serviced by a corporate "menu of services", with very little "say" from the fresh-out-of-school vets who get stuck taking those jobs.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> I can't see the point of doing it forever! I would think that vets that keep doing it past when everyone is vaccinated and Covid is under control will find that they lose clientele over that practice. People want to talk to the vet directly, and people want to be there to support their animal.
> 
> Around here, it is MUCH too soon to drop Covid protocols. But I sure wouldn't be happy if they kept it up forever! I wouldn't even mind if they kept masking up for a LONG time. But I want to be able to go in with my animals.


I can totally see why a practice might want to continue this afterwards - I know that for Perry's visit last week it was MUCH faster (he got in on time, out quickly) than it has been in the past with "normal" visits - so I imagine that they can keep their schedule moving and get through it with fewer delays if they continue this way. On the other hand, I don't think I'd be comfortable doing visits this way long term. So it's definitely a tradeoff. I did talk to the vet on the phone, but I'm not a phone person so would really have preferred a face to face, so I wonder if some of the clinics that are considering continuing this long-term might come up with some sort of compromise.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Brill said:


> I can totally see why a practice might want to continue this afterwards - I know that for Perry's visit last week it was MUCH faster (he got in on time, out quickly) than it has been in the past with "normal" visits - so I imagine that they can keep their schedule moving and get through it with fewer delays if they continue this way. On the other hand, I don't think I'd be comfortable doing visits this way long term. So it's definitely a tradeoff. I did talk to the vet on the phone, but I'm not a phone person so would really have preferred a face to face, so I wonder if some of the clinics that are considering continuing this long-term might come up with some sort of compromise.


I am sure this makes scheduling easier for them. However, it reminds me of dropping dogs off for grooming where they spend a lot of time sitting around in cages waiting for the groomer to get to them. I do not like this long term.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I am sure this makes scheduling easier for them. However, it reminds me of dropping dogs off for grooming where they spend a lot of time sitting around in cages waiting for the groomer to get to them. I do not like this long term.


If I wanted cookie cutter care I’d use Banfield.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> If I wanted cookie cutter care I’d use Banfield.


Exactly!!!!


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## NotAMuggle (Dec 4, 2020)

I actually just called the vet office I made an appointment with for my puppy's first/initial visit after coming home. They said I'm allowed to go in the waiting room with my pup and then also the exam room with her where a vet tech will go over things with me but then the "procedure" room (where they get shots/do checkup/etc) is just the doctor and vet tech with the puppy to limit people in the small room. The doctor will apparently come back into the exam room with me afterwards to answer any questions/go over things. Do you all think I should explore other vet offices that will allow me to be in the room every step of the process? 🙁


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

NotAMuggle said:


> I actually just called the vet office I made an appointment with for my puppy's first/initial visit after coming home. They said I'm allowed to go in the waiting room with my pup and then also the exam room with her where a vet tech will go over things with me but then the "procedure" room (where they get shots/do checkup/etc) is just the doctor and vet tech with the puppy to limit people in the small room. The doctor will apparently come back into the exam room with me afterwards to answer any questions/go over things. Do you all think I should explore other vet offices that will allow me to be in the room every step of the process? 🙁


In “normal times” I would not use a vet that had a “procedure room” and would not allow me to be with my animal for shots, exams, etc... anything short of surgery. OTOH, these are NOT “normal times”. If this office lets you have face-to-face time with the vet, and is otherwise in alignment with your views in dog care, I would call it a win.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> In “normal times” I would not use a vet that had a “procedure room” and would not allow me to be with my animal for shots, exams, etc... anything short of surgery. OTOH, these are NOT “normal times”. If this office lets you have face-to-face time with the vet, and is otherwise in alignment with your views in dog care, I would call it a win.


I agree. This sounds like a dream compared to how my vet is handling things now.


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## NotAMuggle (Dec 4, 2020)

krandall said:


> In “normal times” I would not use a vet that had a “procedure room” and would not allow me to be with my animal for shots, exams, etc... anything short of surgery. OTOH, these are NOT “normal times”. If this office lets you have face-to-face time with the vet, and is otherwise in alignment with your views in dog care, I would call it a win.


Thanks. I may poke around and see if there's another vet office option that will let me be with the puppy every step of the process, but at least I can go inside with her for most of it and talk to the vet in person. I was nervous that they were going to make me wait outside the whole and time and just drop her off. I hate these COVID times 😞


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> Yes it is crazy. Prior to them taking my dog in, the vet tech asks me what I want examined. Then the vet tech tells the vet. Since there is no communication between me and the vet during the exam, this means I am totally dependent on the vet tech understanding me correctly and this means the vet cannot ask me for additional clarifications. More room now for communication breakdown which can be difficult enough even under the best of circumstances. Time for a new vet.


Knowing that I couldn't go in, I wrote a list to send in with the vet tech, in addition to telling the tech what we wanted to look at. Then the vet called me once Perry was inside. I felt the need to write everything down because I didn't want to rely on playing "telephone" with the vet tech or even the vet on the phone. I think it worked well - though I would like to get back to face to face at some point.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

NotAMuggle said:


> Thanks. I may poke around and see if there's another vet office option that will let me be with the puppy every step of the process, but at least I can go inside with her for most of it and talk to the vet in person. I was nervous that they were going to make me wait outside the whole and time and just drop her off. I hate these COVID times 😞


Just make SURE that the vet is in line with your views on vaccines, and other things. That, to me, is WAY more important than how they are handling things during these last few months of Covid. Over-vaccinating your puppy, just so you can be with him in the waiting room (frankly, I do not take my dogs INTO the waiting room at the vet's office anyway!) is not an OK trade-off to me...


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