# Unsuccessful leash training.



## tra_po (Aug 14, 2013)

Ludo is 12 weeks old. He's very small - 2.25 pounds. I know this is the "fearful" stage and I'm trying very hard to be the leader through it. I'm trying not to coddle or soothe too much. Trying also not to tense up or change my energy when I know something is about to happen to make him fearful (on walks he does not like passing cars, for example). 

That said, I'm having a lot of trouble with leash training. He refuses to walk. He won't walk down my driveway. He will only walk on sidewalks and stops dead in his tracks when a car passes or a stranger approaches. He has gone for good clips of time but then slams on the breaks. It's not a purposeful walk whatsoever. The conditions have to be "just right" for him to walk and when he does he has a nice pace and stays right beside me. This mornings walk was a a disaster and I feel defeated. I do not want to drag this baby. I do not want to let him give in to fears. 

Any advice? Is he too small to expect this to work already?


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Bring treats, lots of treats, out with you and throw them ahead of you and Ludo for him to walk to and eat. Keep praising when he moves forward. Don't pull on the leash if you can help it, it might lead to a negative association. Also make sure the leash you are using is small and light based on his size, a heavy leash might be pulling on his harness. I would not be using a collar for leash walking at this point. One thing that I did with Tim when he was younger is to get a long twig and hold it in front of him so he'll move forward and try to get it. If he likes a certain surface to walk on make sure he has leash walking down pat on there with LOTS OF PRAISE and treats before moving to something he doesn't like. He'll get it eventually, don't give up. Maybe you can have one of your girls walk in front of him and call him to move forward too.

One more thing too, don't expect these early walks to be anything substantial, keep them short, sweet and very positive.


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## tra_po (Aug 14, 2013)

I should have mentioned I have the one dog on the planet who is in no way treat or food-driven. Thank you for the advice. I'll step up the praise and you're right about the surface training.

I just ordered a Puppia today. I'd been using a cat harness (because he's so small) but I think he senses right out of the gate I'm uncomfortable with it (has to go over head) and so he's uneasy. 

Thanks a lot.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tra_po said:


> Ludo is 12 weeks old. He's very small - 2.25 pounds. I know this is the "fearful" stage and I'm trying very hard to be the leader through it. I'm trying not to coddle or soothe too much. Trying also not to tense up or change my energy when I know something is about to happen to make him fearful (on walks he does not like passing cars, for example).
> 
> That said, I'm having a lot of trouble with leash training. He refuses to walk. He won't walk down my driveway. He will only walk on sidewalks and stops dead in his tracks when a car passes or a stranger approaches. He has gone for good clips of time but then slams on the breaks. It's not a purposeful walk whatsoever. The conditions have to be "just right" for him to walk and when he does he has a nice pace and stays right beside me. This mornings walk was a a disaster and I feel defeated. I do not want to drag this baby. I do not want to let him give in to fears.
> 
> Any advice? Is he too small to expect this to work already?


He's still a little, tiny baby! Dogs are not born knowing how to walk on a leash. It takes time, encouragement and training. You can definitely be working on this now, but don't expect it to be perfect for months to come!

Work on loose leash walking in a low-distration area that he is familiar with to start with, with LOTS of treats, as Jen mentioned. Then SLOWLY add distractions. Kodi was over a year before he didn't react to big trucks along the side of the road, and he's a very smart, pretty calm dog.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tra_po said:


> I should have mentioned I have the one dog on the planet who is in no way treat or food-driven. Thank you for the advice. I'll step up the praise and you're right about the surface training.
> 
> I just ordered a Puppia today. I'd been using a cat harness (because he's so small) but I think he senses right out of the gate I'm uncomfortable with it (has to go over head) and so he's uneasy.
> 
> Thanks a lot.


Almost all dogs can LEARN to be "treat motivated". It's a matter of turning the whole thing into a game that is fun for the puppy. Then they learn that the treats mean they've done something right, and they, themselves, become more motivating. It's your job to find what treats he likes best right NOW. that probably isn't kibble, and may not be commercial treats. Many puppies LOVE boiled chicken breast, and it's good, solid nutrition for them too.

If you haven't, I'd get him enrolled in a good puppy kindergarten ASAP. The trainer will be able to help you with these problems and give you realistic "homework" for the age of your puppy. You will also have a bunch of other puppy owners to commiserate with.  (MOST important, it will continue that CRITICALLY IMPORTANT socialization process!!!) But to work on this problem specifically. (not that it's a "problem" with your puppy... but it's something YOU need to learn more about) You might want to have a good, positive based trainer come to your hose to give you a private lesson or two in your own surroundings. This can be EXTREMELY helpful.


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

tra_po said:


> I should have mentioned I have the one dog on the planet who is in no way treat or food-driven. Thank you for the advice. I'll step up the praise and you're right about the surface training.
> 
> I just ordered a Puppia today. I'd been using a cat harness (because he's so small) but I think he senses right out of the gate I'm uncomfortable with it (has to go over head) and so he's uneasy.
> 
> Thanks a lot.


There is a treat your puppy will like, you just have to find it! With mine it was only cooked chicken or turkey - he wouldnt eat any other soft treats at first. He was a total snob! Now he is better, as he will eat the freeze dried liver etc. so i dont always have to walk around with pieces of chicken....


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## tra_po (Aug 14, 2013)

Thank you so much. You're right. I do need to find "his" treat. 

And Karen I needed to be reminded he's a baby... And he will be fearful... And he'll get beyond it. I am asking an awful lot of him already, I know. So thank you. 

I will look into a trainer or a class. THANKS.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Brody wasn't treat motivated until I found the right treat(s) for him. For him, his biggie is freeze dried beef liver (although it wasn't until his 3rd introduction to it that he decided he liked it). Cheese is also a good one for him. He still turns his nose away from most treats, but the ones he likes, he LOVES!


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## Ruth4Havs (May 13, 2013)

Thank you for posting this Traci, I'm having the same problem.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Often, the first time any of ours are on a leash is their first handling class when they get close to 6 months old. He's too young and too small to even worry about it for now. This is something they can learn at any age.....if the other end of the leash has a good hand on it.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

back yard , then quiet street /park . Don't force her Get out and socialize.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> Often, the first time any of ours are on a leash is their first handling class when they get close to 6 months old. He's too young and too small to even worry about it for now. This is something they can learn at any age.....if the other end of the leash has a good hand on it.


Yes, but for many pet people, the end part of this "if the other end of the leash has a good hand on it" is the critical part. A LOT of puppy and pet training classes are giving the HUMAN the skill they need to go home and work with their dog correctly.

I know that Pam can take a 6 month old puppy out and start him on loose leash walking in no time. But a new pet owner can do a lot of training damage that needs to be UNtrained by the time a puppy is 6 months old.


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## Lucy419 (Jun 10, 2013)

I had the same problem with my pup, now 5 months old. She put on the breaks anytime I tried to get her to walk beyond our house. She would not budge and wasnt treat motivated either. It wasn't until she was about 4 months old that she built up her confidence to walk outside. Now we are working on leash manners because she is SO excited for her walks, she zigs zags the whole time, running ahead of me. I think it just takes time and patience. Good luck!


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## mcleal (Mar 30, 2013)

At our puppy socialization class the instructor told us not to worry about leash training until 6 months. We use a retractable leash and let him decide where he wants to explore.


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## tra_po (Aug 14, 2013)

Thank you so much everyone! And thank you for the video - it was very helpful. On my list of "to do"s today is a training class for us. I really appreciate it. 

And Karen - that's my worry - training damage. I would rather do nothing than the wrong thing. 

Thanks a lot!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tra_po said:


> Thank you so much everyone! And thank you for the video - it was very helpful. On my list of "to do"s today is a training class for us. I really appreciate it.
> 
> And Karen - that's my worry - training damage. I would rather do nothing than the wrong thing.
> 
> Thanks a lot!


Well, as others have said, there's no HURRY in leash training him. (other than it's fun to be able to go for pleasant walks with your pup!) But simply putting off leash training until an arbitrary date, like 6 months, doesn't do anything to give YOU the skills you need to teach loose leash walking either. So it's GREAT that you are looking for a training class to help you learn how to do it right. Videos can be very helpful, but the video trainer can't see and immediately correct, and mistakes you are making. And it can be frustrating if you THINK you are doing it right, and not making any progress... or worse, establishing bad habits that you'll have to lose later.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

most the trainers I know are training on a leash asap. How else can you walk your dog. ? most train it in puppy classes.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> most the trainers I know are training on a leash asap. How else can you walk your dog. ? most train it in puppy classes.


I think for most people who live in suburban settings, it's pretty critical to be able to get them out walking for exercise. For people like the Kings or myself, who have acres for the the dogs to exercise on without leaving the property, that part is less critical. But it still makes it MUCH harder to get your puppy out and socializing regularly if they are not pretty well leash trained.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I don't see a difference Karen, socializing includes goes places that are potentially dangerous e.g. . a roadway to acclimate to cars and other things. one can\\t do this without a leashed dog.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> I don't see a difference Karen, socializing includes goes places that are potentially dangerous e.g. . a roadway to acclimate to cars and other things. one can\t do this without a leashed dog.


That was my point.


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## tra_po (Aug 14, 2013)

davetgabby said:


> most the trainers I know are training on a leash asap. How else can you walk your dog. ? most train it in puppy classes.


Agreed. I am registered for a training class and the first item is "loose leash" training. I have a small backyard (probably not small in Ludo's eyes) and while I can run around with him and burn off steam that way it's not the same as letting him see the world and be in a "pack" (if you can call Ludo and me a pack!) walking. So it's a priority to me even though he's a little bit.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

Use little small pieces of hot dogs to lure him a step or two, then lots of praise.
Repeat. No more than a few minutes at a time each day.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tra_po said:


> Agreed. I am registered for a training class and the first item is "loose leash" training. I have a small backyard (probably not small in Ludo's eyes) and while I can run around with him and burn off steam that way it's not the same as letting him see the world and be in a "pack" (if you can call Ludo and me a pack!) walking. So it's a priority to me even though he's a little bit.


There are very good reasons to start him on loose leash walking, but don't fall for the propaganda about "packs" and "pack mentality". This is outdated, and has no basis in scientific fact. Dogs, even feral ones with no contact with humans, do NOT live in packs.


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

krandall said:


> Dogs, even feral ones with no contact with humans, do NOT live in packs.


Really? I didn't know this. I jokingly say that Timmy really enjoys his morning walk with his "pack" of up to seven dogs. He definitely has a different mentality when he's walking with the group instead of just me he's almost hypnotic, no stopping to smell or just stopping because he doesn't want to walk any more, he's like a wind up toy and just goes and goes. Does that make sense? The dogs all get along and love one another's company, they even know where each other live. Towards the end of our walks one house has the "big" dog yard and I now have the "small" dog yard for some off leash play before everyone goes home. I thought dogs were pack animals but I guess not, very intersting.


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## CatWoman (Sep 8, 2013)

My Dixie is also 12 weeks, going into 13. She's been strictly indoors so far, per her vet's orders. I've started leash training her indoors. Treats in the left hand, leash hand, works for her. Even without a leash, she will trot along next to me, staring fixedly at the treat in my hand. She LOVES peanut butter flavored treats! If you haven't tried them, you might give them a whirl. She also likes some horrid smelly things named Lean Treats that my vet gave her. They are soft like putty, so you can break them into smaller bits.

I've got Dixie enrolled in an AKC Star Puppy class. It starts the first week of October. I have a feeling that it's a much better class that the PetSmart classes. The AKC classes here are not well advertised, so a person has to seek them out.


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

I live in an urban area and we have to have some control over our pup for his own safety. On the advice of krandall I bought the sensation harness, which works very well to stop the pulling. Our guy is ten months and he still needs some work when he doesnt have the harness or isnt walking with our other dog.


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## tra_po (Aug 14, 2013)

krandall said:


> There are very good reasons to start him on loose leash walking, but don't fall for the propaganda about "packs" and "pack mentality". This is outdated, and has no basis in scientific fact. Dogs, even feral ones with no contact with humans, do NOT live in packs.


I don't think it's propaganda at all. I might ascribe to the notion that it's not as important to dogs as some would think but I do believe there is a benefit to a pack mentality.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jabojenny said:


> Really? I didn't know this. I jokingly say that Timmy really enjoys his morning walk with his "pack" of up to seven dogs. He definitely has a different mentality when he's walking with the group instead of just me he's almost hypnotic, no stopping to smell or just stopping because he doesn't want to walk any more, he's like a wind up toy and just goes and goes. Does that make sense? The dogs all get along and love one another's company, they even know where each other live. Towards the end of our walks one house has the "big" dog yard and I now have the "small" dog yard for some off leash play before everyone goes home. I thought dogs were pack animals but I guess not, very intersting.


They DO enjoy each other's company once they know each other, and I think they do enjoy walking in a group.

But feral dogs have only loose associations with other dogs, coming together mostly to mate, and then a mother and her pups And that association is very short... This is markedly different than their wild cousins, like wolves and coyotes, where the pups typically stay with their parents for well over a year. And Wolf and Coyote fathers are strongly involved with parental care. Dog fathers have NOTHING to do with the puppies. They wander off shortly after mating.

Wild canids also hunt together, which also sets them apart from domestic dogs, who are scavengers. Even "wild" (feral) domestic dogs rarely hunt, and few would survive without living in the proximity of humans, where they can scavenge garbage for food.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

CatWoman said:


> My Dixie is also 12 weeks, going into 13. She's been strictly indoors so far, per her vet's orders. I've started leash training her indoors. Treats in the left hand, leash hand, works for her. Even without a leash, she will trot along next to me, staring fixedly at the treat in my hand. She LOVES peanut butter flavored treats! If you haven't tried them, you might give them a whirl. She also likes some horrid smelly things named Lean Treats that my vet gave her. They are soft like putty, so you can break them into smaller bits.
> 
> I've got Dixie enrolled in an AKC Star Puppy class. It starts the first week of October. I have a feeling that it's a much better class that the PetSmart classes. The AKC classes here are not well advertised, so a person has to seek them out.


Just remember to (very) soon get those treat OUT of your left hand, and instead of luring her, stop and reward her every few steps for good, loose-leash walking. You don't want to end up with a dog who will only walk with you if you have a cookie in front of her nose.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tra_po said:


> I don't think it's propaganda at all. I might ascribe to the notion that it's not as important to dogs as some would think but I do believe there is a benefit to a pack mentality.


There is simply no science to support it. (feel free to do some research on PEER REVIEWED canine science if you don't believe me) So if you want to believe in something made up, then you can do so. But it has no real bearing on dog behavior.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeah I asked for some input from our IAABC members and got four responses on when to start leash training....

1. "Before s/he leaves the breeder or rescue."

2 "right away" Lore I. Haug

3 "The sooner the better. Start yesterday." Pat Miller, CBCC-KA, CPDT-KA 

4 "My suggestion is to begin as soon as the pup is settled into the new surroundings. I recommend beginning with getting the pup accustomed to a collar - if that is not already done. Then I add (depending on size of pup!) a short lead to drag around while I can observe the pup. Tiny pups? Maybe just a shoe lace.

I proceed with holding the end of the lead and going where the pup goes then motivating the pup to walk to me by using lots of tiny treats.

No tugging - no stress.

Charlotte


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## TerBear (Aug 10, 2013)

Traci, Thought I'd share that I also have a little tyke. Buckley is 4.5 mo and just over 3 lb. Vet thinks he will only make it to 6 lb. I don't know that the size has that much to do with anything, but most importantly, they are both still very young. But let me tell you, Buckley can also put on his brakes like NO OTHER! No rhyme or reason either! We will be in the front yard going to the mailbox or maybe to go back inside, and he will just brake! He does it in the road when we walk too, and I just pick him up for a minute and try him again. He was all over the place walking, so I would entice him with cheese, which he loves. It works pretty good, but he still gets very distracted. Until one day a neighbor was out walking her older dog (who knew how to walk). We were chatting and then I started walking with her, and Buckley really looked like he was getting the hang of it, just seeing her dog do it! It was amazing, the longest walk he ever took! He got LOTS of praise throughout and when we got home. Just another idea! But we will also be starting a puppy training class soon (they use clickers.) Best wishes to you and Ludo! He is adorable!!!


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

I have always taught my dogs to accept the leash and walk along by taking them walking with our other dogs that know how to walk on a Leah. Try a friend with a dog that knows how to walk on a leash. Puppies catch on pretty quickly to leash walking that way!


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## tra_po (Aug 14, 2013)

I will try walking with a neighbor's dog. This is good advice, thank you TerBear and Pucks104. I have noticed when we walk home from the bus stop after picking up the kids and there's other people with us that he walks much more easily. So I bet another dog will be even better. (There goes that pack propaganda again! LOL!)


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## tra_po (Aug 14, 2013)

davetgabby said:


> yeah I asked for some input from our IAABC members and got four responses on when to start leash training....
> 
> 1. "Before s/he leaves the breeder or rescue."
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TerBear said:


> Traci, Thought I'd share that I also have a little tyke. Buckley is 4.5 mo and just over 3 lb. Vet thinks he will only make it to 6 lb. I don't know that the size has that much to do with anything, but most importantly, they are both still very young. But let me tell you, Buckley can also put on his brakes like NO OTHER! No rhyme or reason either! We will be in the front yard going to the mailbox or maybe to go back inside, and he will just brake! He does it in the road when we walk too, and I just pick him up for a minute and try him again. He was all over the place walking, so I would entice him with cheese, which he loves. It works pretty good, but he still gets very distracted. Until one day a neighbor was out walking her older dog (who knew how to walk). We were chatting and then I started walking with her, and Buckley really looked like he was getting the hang of it, just seeing her dog do it! It was amazing, the longest walk he ever took! He got LOTS of praise throughout and when we got home. Just another idea! But we will also be starting a puppy training class soon (they use clickers.) Best wishes to you and Ludo! He is adorable!!!


Kodi learned a lot about walking... On leash and off, by walking in the company of an older, well-trained dog. It does work wonders if you have one available!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tra_po said:


> I will try walking with a neighbor's dog. This is good advice, thank you TerBear and Pucks104. I have noticed when we walk home from the bus stop after picking up the kids and there's other people with us that he walks much more easily. So I bet another dog will be even better. (There goes that pack propaganda again! LOL!)


It's not pack propaganda. It's absolutely true that dogs are social animals, and can learn from each other. They just don't form packs.

One other point, however, make sure the dog you larctice with has GOOD leash manners, and is not pulling, or worse, lunging and barking at other dogs or people.


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## tra_po (Aug 14, 2013)

krandall said:


> It's not pack propaganda. It's absolutely true that dogs are social animals, and can learn from each other. They just don't form packs.
> 
> One other point, however, make sure the dog you larctice with has GOOD leash manners, and is not pulling, or worse, lunging and barking at other dogs or people.


I think I must be using the term 'pack' too loosely. Would group work better? I don't literally mean they're forming a pack; I mean they're together socially in a group.

I agree on finding a good role model to practice with for sure!


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