# walking off-leash?//training to come no matter what



## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

:frusty: This evening I had a frightening experience with Biscuit. The gate to our fenced yard didn't close behind me, I removed his leash thinking the gate was closed, and he bolted out the open gate, into the street, and beyond, to the walking path at the edge of the Bay. Of course I called him & walked after him, but he acted like it was a game (he's 10 months old) and ran down the path as fast as he could with total joyful abandon. To add to the fun, it now was getting dark, and he is wearing a cone on his head because of the new hotspot on his toe that he got at the dogsitter's. Fortunately, a jogger came by and scooped him up for me, or I'd still be chasing him!

Many people walk their dogs across the street from us off-leash on this bayside path, including many smaller dogs like Havs, Yorkies, Cavalier King Charles , etc. The dogs are mostly calm and obedient, but every so often one runs out into the street in front of a car, though there isn't much traffic at all, thank goodness. I have always been terrified to even TRY this, because I fear Biscuit will just take off for the far horizon, like he did tonite, or get hit by a car, my worst nightmare. I ALWAYS walk him on a lead. Several of these dog walkers have actually challenged me as to why I don't walk him unleashed , and I feel like an clueless and over-protective mother.

My questions are: how do I train him to come when I call him, no matter where we are or what distractions there are? He is easily distracted, so friendly and curious! AND, Should I be training him to walk off-lead? Or wait til he is older & calmer. This is my first dog and first Havanese. He has a very sweet disposition and knows sit, down, stay, go out, etc. but is also mischievous and smart. I'd SO appreciate your advice!! Thanks!!


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

One thing I've noticed that works with Capote and something I saw on _ It's Me or the Dog _to get them to come to you are:

A) ...let HIM chase YOU. If you call them and start running away they think you're playing and run after you. This works EVERY time when I have Capote off leash
B) ..call him differently. They get bored with 'capote come'...so make a squealy noise thats embarrassing for you and they're more interested in what you're doing.
C) get down on all 4's with your but in the air and call to him. That's a play posture for dogs so they instantly think you want to play and come bounding up to you.

Personally I only ever have tried A because the other two are too embarrassing..lol. But it works spectacularly so I never had to put my bootie up in the air to get him to come back..lol.


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

oh and don't forget...LOTS of praise when they DO RLH back!


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Thank you for your advice. I did think about running back into the yard, so he'd follow me, but there was the street between us, so that posed a danger. 
I"ll have to work on this technique when we're in the yard, and then branch out. 
I read somewhere that a trainer wrote that Havanese are particularly prone to head for the far horizon, more than other breeds. Is that true, or a Hav myth? Thanks again!


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I don't chase them. I turn around and walk away from them and say "bye". They think I am leaving, so they will follow me. It usually works.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

irnfit said:


> *I don't chase them. I turn around and walk away from them and say "bye". They think I am leaving, so they will follow me. It usually works.*


*
*Oliver's leash broke one time while we were walking near a busy street. I tried that and thank God it worked!
Sally


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

OMG, Amy, how very scary!!! I'd be so worried that if I turned my back and walked away from the running pup that he'd get hurt in some way or run even further AWAY from me! :jaw: 


First of all, I see nothing wrong or embarrassing about having your dog on leash ALL the time. No need to feel like you're a 'bad mommy' at all. In fact, I'd say quite the opposite. I, too, always have our pups on leash out front and on walks. Sure, it's wonderful to see them race about freely, w/o a care in the world, but they're dogs. They don't see or know of the dangers out there and we do. Like parents to our kids, that's our job... to see to it that nothing bad happens. 

I wouldn't take any pup/dog off leash unless I was SURE he'd come when called. And that, at 100% of the time. Ricky would likely come, but Sammy? Forget it. We got him at almost 8 months and he wasn't trained from day one like Ricky was because we got Ricky at 9 weeks. I can not trust either one 100% off their leashes, so the leash stays on. Period. One day, once we've trained them to always heed our commands, then it would be GREAT to try it out. Until then......... and dont' let other dog owners make you feel badly. At least you know your dog is safe.

Mind you, with a tasty treat in your hand, any dog might bounce right back to you w/o any hesitation. Good idea to keep some in your pockets at all times.

O.k......... off my soapbox for now. :biggrin1:


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I totally agree with Marj. Don't let anyone make you feel bad for keeping your dog safe. Your dog is not ready to be off-leash. (Heck, I've done some obedience training with my oldest and even though she isn't the type to run, I know there is always that lingering temptation.)

You have some good suggestions up above. I'd recommend you teach him to wait at the gate, teach him good recall, and maybe even take some basic obedience classes with him.

I'm glad Biscuit is safe!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Yes, unfortunately, even the most "obedient" dog can bolt if they see a falling leaf, a squirrel, cat or a child holding a Big Mac. Hey! It happens!! lol 
No amount of 'come' commands can turn most dogs away from a potential Big Mac. At least, that's what I've heard. :biggrin1: 

Seriously though.... there were at least a few Havs on the 'big list' over the winter that ran off and got hit by cars or simply disappeared. One man lost his best friend, a young Havanese, this way and was devastated. You just never know.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I'm glad Biscuit is safe too!

Something similar happened to us when we first got Gucci. She was in the backyard (supervised) but decided to run thru the fence and into the street. YIKES. And the gate was on the other side of the yard. Double yikes, so husband had to RLH to go catch her across the street. Of course, by this time she thought it was game and was playing "catch me if you can".

It IS frightening.

We now have chickenwire around our yard.

Don't let anyone make you feel bad for being a responsible pet owner! Too many things can happen with an unleashed dog. Especially if you live in an area with wildlife of any sort...and traffic...and other dogs, etc. There are alot of things to consider. I personally do not take her anywhere w/o a leash. 

The backyard is her *safe* place to run and play, but I've gotten in the habit of checking the gate to make sure the kids have closed it.

hugs,
Kara


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

Leashes are great and I fully support them! But why would you keep your dog on a leash in your own fenced in back yard?? The latch to the gate was undone..woops! Capote would have bolted at that too..he's tried several times. But knowing what to do if he DOES accidently get out of a secured environment is also a good thing too.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I only take Brady off leash in our back yard, the nature preserve near us with no cars, and the nearby school fields. He is never off leash anywhere near a real street (we live in the cul de sac). We do not have a fence and once in a while, he will decide he wants to go visit the neighbors. When he is not listening to come, I yell "Brady, chicken bone". (chicken jerkey is a treat he gets every morning and he loves his "chicken bone".) He will stop dead in his tracks and run right back to me. I just have to make sure that I provide his bone to him each time I use it. If there is something that your dog just loves, try giving him a call with that instead of using "come" in an emergency situation.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I'm so happy everything is fine.

I agree do not let any one talk you into letting him off lead. I had boxer champions with their CDX and I would not have dreamed of letting them off lead near a car or other dogs that night want to play (or a cat, child, bird, etc). Unless you practice it all the time you never know. Some breeds are alot better at OB and off lead than others. I know the reason for the training is to be able to control your dog at all times, but even with obedience I was scared to do it. 

I do treat Smarty every time she comes to my "Smarty Come". and she is very good at it. I never use those works with out a treat.


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## Jan D (Mar 13, 2007)

If you choose to do C on Capotesmom's thread, watch out...you may have more than your dog following you ound: ound:


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

rofl...that's awesome.. 

Hey maybe if I DID try it I could land a DATE!


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

That's so scary. I've been fearful that kind of thing would happen to Shadow, too. She gets pretty distracted by people. In fact, we work really hard on the command "ignore" when we're walking on leash. Boy, is it hard for her to ignore someone walking near. It is also hard for the people to ignore such a cute little dog. Maybe I should be working with them, too?  

I would like for her to be safe off leash, too. So, for about the past month I have started taking her out in the front yard without her leash (we live at the end of a cul-de-sac, so traffic isn't much of a worry) What I do before we go out the door, though, is show her I have her favorite treats in my pocket. I don't think she lets me out of her sight the whole time we're out there. Even if someone is out there, she is pretty good about staying focused on me and my commands. She gets a piece of a treat everytime she comes when called. She also gets huge praise. I've done it enough now that I can take her out front for a short while without a treat, because she knows she will get one when we go in the house. I have hopes that if she ever gets into a situation where she's not on a leash, like running out an open gate, she'll come right back when called.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I think Marj has very good points. I told everyone how my havanese Dora bolted after the ducks. She has 4 obedience titles and lets just say she is still a dog! I let Dora ofleash at a few parks- the park of roses where the road is about a mile from where we walk. I have never had issues with her not listening to me here and I feel pretty safe with her there. She has a very reliable recall and I always have treats in my pocket. Just in case I need to enforce her coming when called. Dora is pretty reliable but I get more nervous about bad things happening where she could become scared- a big dog chasing her, a kid falling on her, etc. That is the part that scares me more than getting her around distractions.

We play a cookie game with the girls and this has helped with reliable recalls. But this is something that has been taught from day one and taken seriously. I dont set them up to do a recall that I dont think will happen. I want them to know when I say come there is no other option (beginning training they have a leash on, then a long line). Jim has cookies and I have them broken up in tiny pieces in my hand. We go far from each other and just do recalls. Make sure you recall is always happy fun and remember it needs to be more exciting than ducks, other dogs, humans, etc. They love this game and will try to get us to play it. Belle and Dora will run back and forth when we are walking and do sits in front of us to entice the game and then we will do it.

Hope it helps but if there is any doubt in your mind, keep your dog on a leash!

Amanda


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Amanda- I like that you and your husband both play the game w/them. Shadow is pretty good to come whenever I call her, not the same for my hubby, though. Maybe we'll start playing the cookie game, too


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Leslie, 
The hubby walks them probably half the time. It is good they come for him too because what if I am not here? If it is just you by yourself a good way to play is throw a piece of treat that they can see- string cheese works great on tile and hardwood floors cause it bounces. As soon as they grab it, "Dora come" and then praise and treat when they come. Make the coming to you a big deal! Works good if you don't have someone to play with.

Probably the most valuable command I have taught Dora is to touch. Dora uses her nose and I have made this only positive and extremly fun. I hold my hand out and she touches. This is my back up to anything in life. She thinks of touch as always getting a treat for something simple. So if I say it, she charges and jumps up at my hand. I do this while playing tug or throw toy with her. I will do "touch" improptly and she loves it. It has helped in obedience, agility, everything but I always think of it as my real life back up! This will get her close enough so I could grab her.

My husband is the more practical trainer! He has also taught them a wait command at the street. We moved near campus and there is a lot more traffic around here. So now the dogs will come to the street and stop. Usually not sit but they know they have to wait for their command "street" then they go across!

Amanda


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## NancyVB (Jun 27, 2007)

*Sadly I speak from experience*

We lost our first havanese, Sophie, 6 months ago in the road and we will never be the same. We had family here for the holidays and someone left the garage door open. Sophie slipped out. I still cry every day, I miss her so. 
We now have short baby gates on every entry door, we step over them. I can't risk another accident. 
If the dogs are in the fenced backyard and I can't see one of them right away, I panic.
Don't let ANYONE make you feel bad for keeping your dog safe. Even if you train him to come to you it's never 100%.
Also, in our area there is a leash law, we aren't supposed to walk the dogs off leash, tho some do. 
We did have a large dog (off leash) come after our little Oscar while we were walking and because he was on a leash, I was able to jerk him up to me and hold him.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

We have a leash law here. My daughter was walking her 2 mini Dachsies and the year old Bull Mastiff across the street charged them. He only wanted to play, but his paw is almost as big as her dogs. My daughter had bruises all over her arm and leg from trying to protect her dogs. Imagine what would have happened if he was trying to attack. I told her to get one of those small bull horns and carry it with her.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Nancy,
Sorry for your loss. That is sad, scary and can happen to anyone. That is my biggest fear that something happens where Dora would get spooked and take off running. She is so fast and she can be really shy to strangers too.

At the home we just sold, there was a screened in sun porch. I would leave the door open and there is a 6 foot privacy fence with latches on the top and the bottom of the gate. I would leave the back door open and the girls would go in and out. Well one day, I went outside and the maltese was by her usual spot on the bird feeder and Dora wasn't there. I went in panic mood. I thought she got out and then didn't see a spot, I immediately thought someone took her. I grabbed the maltese (which I would always do since Dora loves Belle more than anything!) and we went walking thru the neighborhood calling her. Well we did it for an hour and I brought the maltese home. I went back out. I saw my husband driving and he said Dora was at home the entire time. Some how she shoved herself thru the underneath lattice on the back of the porch. We have no idea how she did it and Jim ripped it out getting her. But I know that feeling of panic. Thank goodness she was okay. I am just suprised she never barked or cried. Jim said that Belle went up and was barking at her so that is when he saw her. I was walking the neighborhood trying to call her name happy so she heard me!

Amanda


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Nancy, I am so sad for you loss.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I am so sorry for your loss as well . I lost our first Havanese Asta last year about this time . It was a tragic time for me and I still think of him every day .
He is onmy screensaver and I do not know if it is a good or bad thing as it is so hard to look at his face and realize he is gone.. 
Even though I have two wonderful dogs now - he can never be replaced and I am sure that is how you feel about the dog you lost .
I am so nervous during the construction our contractor is fine and always checks for the dogs but it is the subs who do not have a clue and keep leaving doors and gates open .. 
I had to constantly make sure they were either with me on a leash or in the crate .. 
Take care .. I do not think it ever gets easier..


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Nancy,

I was *so* sad to hear about your loss. My biggest fear is that the dogs will dash out the front door and get hit by an ill-timed car or bicycle (we live on the bike path through our town). I have two boys who I just don't trust 100% to close the front door behind them every time, so I have a permanent xpen up blocking their access to the front door. Yes, it is ugly but it works. I am hoping to find something a little more attractive someday. I also don't let the dogs out when the gardeners are here - I don't trust them either! 

Jane


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Thank you ALL for your wonderful suggestions. Because Biscuit has been such a dream of a first dog-----easily and totally housebroken, so good-natured and eager to please, loves everyone and is even great at the vet's and groomer's-----that I probably haven't worked hard enough on training, esp. with treats. We did go to puppy obedience, and he did fine. But I have had a sort of stupid aversion to too much treat training, thinking I'd prefer he'd do things to please me & not be a beggar----but after reading all of your helpful posts, how silly & egotistical is that, he's a little dog after all!
Nancy and Cosmosmom, I am devastated to hear about your losses. I doubt I would ever get over losing Biscuit , either. We got him as a distraction/comfort at a difficult period of ill-health in our family, so he is extra precious to us. Thanks for sharing something so personal. All the best.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Also, to clarify, he is not on the leash in our fenced yard. We had just come through the gate from a walk when I unleashed him and he bolted for the accidentally left-open gate. Interestingly, tonight we saw him in the yard, banging the heck out of the gate, trying to open it. He remembered, of course. Uh-oh! What is that saying---You can't keep em down on the farm when they've been to Paree? This little boy has an impetuous Huck Finn streak, and I've got to be super-vigilant, while working on all of your great training suggestions. ;-)


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Amy,
I completely understand what you mean about not too much treats. I break my training down to this- when they first learn, I treat like crazy. I think of it like thier pay check. I go to work everyday and leave my family and the things I find most interesting for that paycheck too! Then when I am 100% sure they know what they are doing, I reward on a variable scale. It is a like a slot machine after that- they dont know if they are going to get a treat but lets just say they play the game well! Simple things that Dora knows are then combined with other simple things. Now competing, you can't have food in the ring but they will perform for about 15 mins knowing they aren't going to get a treat, and I bet they have some idea of a jackpot. I also do correction if I feel that they know what to do. When I say "down" and Dora is having too much fun to do it, I will physically place her in a down. 

The recall is one of my only exceptions. There is never a correction that goes along with it. I don't want Dora or Belle to ever hesitate to come when called. That is always followed by praise and if available treat (except in the trainng ring!) If Dora doesn't come when called, that just means, I am not being exciting enough. I just up my anty and use what I know my dog. 

Isabelle is a dog that likes the chase game. We made this mistake when she was a puppy and we would chase after her. She probably has one of the best recalls for a toy dog. Belle only lost 1 point in the obedience ring on the recall because she zoomed around me and came up front again! She charges herself. However, when we are doing activities where she is in high drive- especially agility!!! Belle gets crazy dog syndrome and remembers playing chase is fun. So she will bark at me to try and get me to chase her. I quickly realized how dangerous this can be- usually courses are gated but there are other big dogs who don't need to see a little white fluffy thing running around! So I trained her a quick down- I say down and she drops and I pick her up and treat. Another game that is always followed by a treat.

I just think if you always do the treat in those situations, you might just squeak by the one time in life to not treat and save the little one from a dangerous situation!

Amanda


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

*Winston hangs out in our front yard when we're out there*

off leash. He loves to sit in the grass and check the world out. Obviously I should stop this as we do live on a street in a neighborhood. Could I have the leash on him but let him roam? Or should I gate the front porch so he can only hang out there? Maybe a stake in the grass? The only time I've gotten nervous is when friends across the street started talking to my kids [I grabbed him just in case he decided to visit] and when he gets in a rlh mode.
We have a fenced back yard, he just sometimes would rather be out front where the action is! So when he goes to the front door I always go out with him.

Trish


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Thanks, Amanda, for your brilliant suggestions/explanations. You sound very experienced at this. I'm a complete novice, but learning. This Forum will save me years of trial and error.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Nancy, that is so very sad. I'm sorry to hear about you losing your dear Sophie! 

Amanda, you have great training advice, as always, and I really should be putting more of that to good use here with my boys. I've become a little (o.k., a LOT) lazy about training and need to step up to the plate more. Thanks for the inspiration!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Marj,
My girls are about to get a month break after all the work we put into the last few competitions! I will probably arrive in California with monsters! Actually they are entered in their first agility trial before we move so maybe tired monsters!

I hang out with too many dog people! Isabelle can be a nightmare too! She is just so full of attitude, I gotta think ahead of time. Luckily she is a mommys girl and stays with me. I just have to wlak away and Belle comes running.

Trish- I used one of those twirly metal in the ground stakes for the front yard. Just in case a mail person or someone came up. Just make sure you are out there. We now have a house near campus with a big porch. While my neighbors (okay they are cute until you hear them speak!) have kegs on theirs. I have an xpen and the girls out on mine quite a few nights a week. Belle and Dora like to watch the world happen too!

Amanda


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I also agree with Amanda's training method. On a puppy or young dog I use treats and praise. Once they know what you want the treats can be limited but never the praise.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Also when I refer to treats, 1/4 of a hot dog, a fifty cent piece of liver or chicken will last for a good 15 to 20 minutes of training, you give tiny pieces.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

NancyVB said:


> We lost our first havanese, Sophie, 6 months ago in the road and we will never be the same. We had family here for the holidays and someone left the garage door open. Sophie slipped out. I still cry every day, I miss her so.
> We now have short baby gates on every entry door, we step over them. I can't risk another accident.
> If the dogs are in the fenced backyard and I can't see one of them right away, I panic.
> *Don't let ANYONE make you feel bad for keeping your dog safe. Even if you train him to come to you it's never 100%.
> ...


So very true!! Sorry for your loss
Sally


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

OMG, Nancy what a heart wrenching story.....I cringe thinking about it. I am positive if that had happened to Valentino I would still be crying too. Thanks for warning all of us! Sometimes we sort of let our guard down and get lax. After your story I will keep my eyes wide open!


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

Well going back the original story on this thread....:biggrin1: I remember the last time Radar was at his playdate when we had the second one. Radar had actually made it almost all the way under Ryan's (Beamers Daddy) fence in the backyard. 

There's Radar's rear end wiggling under the fence. I was half laughing inside and the other half freaking out thinking about what was on the other side of the fence out on the road.......:jaw: 

Derek


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## pizno (May 8, 2007)

I'm a newby at this puppy business, but we are practicing 'Come' in the house a lot, and then adding more and more distractions. I give him a treat most of the time at this point. At 3 months, Marvin is certainly NOT reliable when outside. We have played the 'Come!' game, when 4 of us get in a circle in the backyard, with treats, and practiced calling him. He loves it! 

But I have learned that I am no match for the disgusting stuff under the porch or the raccoon poop in the neighbor's yard. That's my goal, though, so I'm going to keep working at it! Marvin will also take off across the street, so we try to have a leash on him.

I'm also trying to figure out about how to keep him from jumping on people - I think they will cover that tonight in puppy class. The body block thing is kind of ridiculous for a puppy who is only 10 inches tall. It seems like no big deal until a 6 year old piano student comes over - they don't all like it, especially when they are wearing shorts!

Carol


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## aradelat (Jun 13, 2007)

Am moving from a house with a great big fenced back yard to one with little back yard (unfenced) and a larger front yard and I'm frightened to death Pablo will take off into the street. I take him to the park almost every day and let him off the leash. Usuallly, he comes when you call him and everything is okay. But one day he decided to run home instead (I guess he missed my fiance) He would not stop no matter how much I called. He ran and ran along a busy street, then crossed another and up to the porch of my house. So I'm really scared about my new unfenced home. Any suggestions? He won't do No. 2 on a leash so I don't know how I can keep him always on a leash.


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

Ooooh.....after that little RLH episode I would be afraid to let him off the leash! You never know when he might feel adventuresome again....too risky!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I agree with Vicki. That is a scary incident and you're very lucky nothing happened to Pablo! It's not your fault of course. These things happen. They are animals after all and sometimes not even the most tasty treat or happy command or promise will get them to forget what made them run in the first place. 

I'm sure Pablo will have a tough time always being on leash, but he'll get used to it. If he is only off leash at one location, he will learn that that's the new rule. You'll have to be consisitent for it to work though. That's the hard part! lol 

Good luck! I think it's best to err on the side of caution.


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## aradelat (Jun 13, 2007)

Thanks for the good and prompt advice. I guess I can get a long leash and tie him to the porch. Anyone have any experience with runners and such?


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