# Positively the Last Straw



## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

I don't want to do it, but I keep having visions of taking Sherman to the nearby animal shelter. He's been using the basement as his auxiliary bathroom every since we moved here about 6 weeks ago. I blocked off the carpeted section 2 weeks ago, and kept the concrete part for one of the cat's litter boxes. But twice this week he's pooped on the concrete. Granted, that isn't the end of the world, but I don't want him pooping in the house. My current theory is that since we didn't have a basement in our old house he might regard it as an extension of the outside. BUT, he was having "accidents" in our old house too. I really resent it when I take him out 5 times without fail and he still makes messes inside.

Last week I was emailing the Havanese rescue group, but then Sherman had a few days where he was "potty trained" and I told them I couldn't give him away. Now he's back to normal. So now I've taken the basement litter box upstairs and closed the door to the basement. Now if he wants to indiscriminately poop and pee indoors, it'll have to be upstairs. THEN, he's going to be re-homed. As much as I don't want to do it, I can't stand it anymore.

I'll take any advice. 

Thanks,
Carol


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Carol, I'm so sorry to hear that you are still having these problems with Sherman. I have no advice because I know you've heard so much advice before and tried so many things. Perhaps it's simply a vicious cycle. You're stressed, he feels your stress, he's stressed and it just keeps going round and round. 
Havanese Rescue is the way to go if you do decide to re-home him. PLEASE, PLEASE don't take him to a shelter.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Oh man Carol, I'm so sorry that you are having problems. I do think that the move has upset your whole training schedule. Personally, I'd start all over as though he was a puppy. Crate him and let him out every hour to pee and poo. Either that or set up an expen with a pee pad but still take him out on a schedule. If you want him with you, tie a long line (like a long leash) to him and attach to your belt. If he starts to go, a gentle tug and the word "outside" will startle him enough to hopefully make it out before things become an accident.

If you do feel you need to re-home him, HRI is a great place. Hugs and good luck to you.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Carol, you've had such a long struggle and I'm sorry that it hasn't gotten any better for you. 

I have to echo Susan's words - If you can't take him back to his breeder, then please allow rescue to take him instead of a shelter.


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Carol - I feel your pain. Lola (11 mos) has regressed recently. She won't go in front of me, so I have to reduce her roaming and confine her to be within eyesight. I went back to a tether and putting her in a small ex-pen when I am out. Well, one day 3 weeks ago, she pooped all over the ex-pen and peed on her bed in the pen. So now, she is back in the crate when I leave the house. It is miserable, as she barks alot in that crate during the day. 

I am also working on getting her to hold it longer. So I wait about 10 minutes, 15 minutes before going out after waking up. And I took away the pee pad for now so that she will learn to hold it for going outside. That part is going very well. Lola is 100% on letting me know she has to go outside. It is when I leave the house that is the challenge.

Is Sherman pooping within visual sight of you? If not, you might give the tether a try. I don't always have Lola's leash attached to something, but just dragging the leash around has altered her behavior. If she wanders where she is not supposed to go, I call her and she comes right back. 

I keep reminding myself that these havs are smart, and try to not take it personally when she goes in the house. But it is hard - I know.


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Carol,

I am so sorry to hear you are having problems with Sherman. He is just a doll!

I was just wondering if the cats litter boxes are in the basement could you keep them there and close the door. Is it possible to put a small cat door to the basement - big enough for the cats but that Sherman could not go through. I was just thinking if you could separate their potty area.

It sounds like he is marking his territory. If he is having problems at night maybe take up his water and food around 7 p.m. 

Is he going in the same place everytime? Be sure to spray something to kill the scent.

Have you tried the bell system with him? The only thing with the bell system you have to take them when they ring whether they are ringing it to go or not. Sissy caught on in just a few days.

I know you have been swamped with ideas and I hope you find something so you can keep your little furbaby.


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

Carol,

Sorry to hear about your frustrations. Moving can be stressful for Sherman. I was told to expect the worst when I took my puppy home from the breeder because all the potty training may just go out the window at a new place.

I hope everything works out for you soon!


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## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

Thanks for all the support. I knew I'd find good advice, but I anticipated them and took Sherman to Petsmart and picked out a new crate for him. It's for a Chow Chow, so it's plenty big. I put his bed inside and am working on getting him to understand it's his little home. Eventually I'm hoping he'll sleep in it beside my bed at night. 

I don't know about the cat boxes. I thought about a pet door to the basement too but Sherman is the same size as the cats. Besides I don't want to stress the cats out too. 

What freaks me out is his willingness to poop in the basement right after a lengthy walk in the grass. That's just not fair. None of them can go in the basement anymore. The cat boxes are upstairs like they were in the old house.

For now I'll try it with the basement door closed and work on the crate with him. But if he still makes messes in the house I won't hesitate to contact the rescue organization again. This time I'll do it fast so I can't change my mind. I know that even if he's good for a few days that it's just a matter of time.

Thanks again!
Carol


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

an xpen is working for me and mugsy, with a pee pad inside the pen.
not an accident yet. 

you can always ship him to me...seriously...

joe


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Carol,
I think Sherman smells the cat litter pan and probably thinks if that's ok for them to poop there,then that must be where you want him to go too.

The new crate sounds WAY too big-----he should only be in a crate big enough for him to turn around in. This big one he can make a potty area and sleeping area in it and it defeats the purpose.The idea is for him not to potty where he sleeps----if the crate is too big,he still can.See what I mean?


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## ls-indy (Apr 10, 2008)

*K-9 grass?*

Hi, Carol - So sorry to hear of Sherman's problems. I'm new and certainly don't have a lot of experience with Havs - but wondered if you know about K-9 grass? Daisy Mae is 12 weeks old and is using the potty grass regularly. There is an dog-attractive smell to the grass and it is anti-microbial. We're very happy with it. Daisy is equally comfortable going outdoors or on the potty grass. There are several brands out there. We are using the kind that use a simple tray. We put a pee-pad under the grass to soak up urine. Since the pee drains right through, its DRY when they step back on it.

After buying the first one, I ended up making two more by purchasing K-9 grass straight from the manufacturer (on-line), then bought replacement dog crate trays from Petco (on-line) and made my own. It might be worth a try if Sherman liked going on grass and then became confused with the move to a new house.


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## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

mugsy said:


> an xpen is working for me and mugsy, with a pee pad inside the pen.
> not an accident yet.
> 
> you can always ship him to me...seriously...
> ...


Joe you need to contact her privately if you are really serious.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

Lilly's mom said:


> Joe you need to contact her privately if you are really serious.


was this a faux paw on my part?
very sorry if so.

joe


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Joe it wasn't a faux pas... Katrina just means that you should contact her privately if you mean it since people will post things on the forum that aren't completely serious. Carol has no way of knowing if you are or not, so you should contact her privately if you are, and I really encourage you to do so.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Carol- I'm sorry things haven't worked out for you and Sherman. I know you've tried alot of things, and I can understand your frustration. Perhaps it is time for Sherman to find another home. It would be wonderful if another Forum member would like Sherman to add to their family. Joe, you didn't make a mistake, I think Katrina just meant for you to contact Carol to let her know you are really serious. I agree with everyone that as an alternate, Havanese Rescue is the way to go.


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Carol,
We got a year-old hav in April. We began having potty training issues pretty quickly. Our first hav is completely house-trained and we were used to her having the run of the house. Indie, however is not trustworthy. We have had to go back to square one with her. She is used to being crated at night, and does not go potty in the ex-pen during the day, so we started taking her outside on a leash so we could be sure she went potty before giving her any freedom in the house. Once she goes pee and poop outside, we let her loose in the family room and kitchen for a few hours. If she won't go potty outside, we put her in her crate, in the ex-pen, or on a leash with one of us. Then we take her out again a little later for another try. She can hold it a very long time. At first we spent a lot of time standing in the yard waiting for her to go (this is summer in AZ-it has been 110 degrees for a couple of weeks now!). She held her pee for twenty hours once in the first week of this. I was pretty frustrated! Since then it has gotten much better. She has had only one accident in the house in the last three weeks. She knows to go when we take her out, and we are only outside for a few minutes at a time. We no longer have to take her out on leash, just go out with her and watch her. We tell her to "go Potty" and reward her with praise and sometimes treats when she does it. She also knows to ring the bell to go out, but I don't think she's done that herself unless the inside water bowl was empty-not to go potty yet.
It rained for five minutes a few days ago, and she held it for about six hours after that. She spent time in the ex-pen again until she was cooperative. 
Cleaning up dog messes is not fun. I look forward to the day when I can trust her in the house!
I know how frustrating this must be for you. I think Sherman can be taught to go outside, but it may take a lot of persistence on your part. Just never letting him out of your sight for a while-being more determined that he do his business outside than he is to do it indoors. 
If you really can't do this, please contact HRI. Sometimes that really is the best for you and the dog. Hugs and best wishes to you and Sherman!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Joe, if Sherman isn't meant for Carol, I suspect you'd be a wonderful alternative. I don't think there was anything wrong with your mentioning it here.

Carol I hope you find a solution that works for you and for sweet little Sherman.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Carol,

If this is a new home, then MAYBE he is smelling an animal that used to live there and just marking his scent OVER the other animal's scent. That's quite plausible, even if it was the owner before the last.

Also, I have read and did mention before that some dogs will be confused when they live with cats and go indoors (like the cats) and/or mark OVER the cat's scent. That's just intrinsic for animals to leave their scents for one another or mark over a scent, there is no getting around that, although some dogs are just more hell bent on doing it than others.

At this point, I hope you contact Rescue and follow through with re-homing him, you've been frustrated and battling this problem for over a year, and if you can't deal with it anymore, I think rehoming him is the best thing for everyone. I'm sure he can sense your frustration and anger towards him.

Good luck!

Kara


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## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

Yeah, Julie. I thought the same thing, so I returned the larger crate and exchanged it for one suited for a medium dog. His bed fits in perfectly, but he's afraid of it and will go in just far enough to retrieve a treat. I'll keep trying though and see how it goes. I am trying this even though I trained him initially by using an ex-pen. Now, though, when I put one of his cloth peepads down where he's pooped, he refuses to use the pad and just goes somewhere else. It's getting worse instead of better. In the past few weeks it's only been overnight that he makes a mess. Today he actually pooped in the basement after a 10-minute walk in the grass. I don't think it's the fault of the litter boxes. He's had them to deal with his whole life.

I'll let you know. I'm going day by day.

Carol


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Carol I haven't been on the forum for a year, so I don't know how frustrated you've been and what you've tried, but I do remember feeling like "I just can't do this anymore." In the months before we put our aging dane down he lost control of his bowels and for six months I cleaned up HUGE piles of poop. It was very sad and exhausting. He didn't like what was happening and he most definitely didn't like what was happening as he cried and pooped and sometimes his back legs collapsed as he pooped. It was heartbreaking.

I know this situation is not the same, and although it is probable that Sherman is capable and our dane was not I can hear the desperation in your "voice."

Please contact HRI and speak with them. Is there anyway you would have the patience and energy to foster him until they could find him a forever home? 

I really think he is sensing your anger and your relationship doesn't sound like it's going to get better and that's okay. Allow yourself to ask for help. He will find a wonderful home, and it would be just amazing if it was a forum member.


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## Krimmyk (Dec 7, 2006)

I agree with Kara, we had a heck of a time back in the day with our old Papillon after we moved to a new home. The old dog and cat used the house as a pee area! We took an enzyme remover and sent it through the carpet cleaner like 5 times. The issues stopped. It took the pap in question over 2 years till we could trust him a little, years till we could almost trust him. I am against pee pads personally, it's like telling a pet it's alright to pee and poo in certain places inside the home.


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## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

mugsy said:


> was this a faux paw on my part?
> very sorry if so.
> 
> joe


Joe I am so sorry my comment came across wrong. I just meant so Carol would know that you really mean it. Please forgive me for coming across as being mean or rude not what I meant at all.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

Lilly's mom said:


> Joe I am so sorry my comment came across wrong. I just meant so Carol would know that you really mean it. Please forgive me for coming across as being mean or rude not what I meant at all.


oh lord, you are fine. i did not interpret it that way at all, not mean or rude AT ALL!
i thought maybe it was against a rule or something to solicit a pup so brazenly on my part.
btw, i decided not to ask in a p.m. as i don't want to be part of a break-up between pup and owner.
my turn will come when it's ready.

joe


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Sherman said:


> Thanks for all the support. I knew I'd find good advice, but I anticipated them and took Sherman to Petsmart and picked out a new crate for him. It's for a Chow Chow, so it's plenty big.
> 
> Carol,
> You may want to take that crate back and get the proper size. If it is too big, he can pee in the crate. The idea of crate training, is that dogs won't soil where they sleep. Now, that doesn't apply to puppy mill dogs or pet shop dogs as that is the only place they ever could go potty.
> ...


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## NancyVB (Jun 27, 2007)

Carol, are you trying to get him to sleep in the crate at night? 
What I did was put the crate on top of a couple of plastic totes in my bedroom next to my bed. The first few nights whenever my pup whined, I put my hand in the crate to let him know I'm right there. After a couple nights, I moved the crate a little ways away and gradually got them to sleep in the crates all night no problem. When we go to bed we tell them it's time to go night-night and they put themselves in there. This has worked with 4 pups.
I really wish you luck as this is so hard on both of you. 
When we have an inside mess here, it's usually near the litter box.


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## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

Kathy, thanks for the crate training article. It was great, but Sherman isn't a puppy. He's 2 and as far as I know has never been in a crate except at the groomer's. So it isn't as easy for him. Or me. But I'm still trying. I've got to do something to stop the behavior, and this is all I could think of. I don't want to give him away without trying everything. And I would blame the move, except for the fact that he was having potty issues in the old house too. 
Thanks again,
Carol


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

I hope things work out for you too...I am sure that it is very tiring at times. I am sure you will get some good advice on here.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Housetraining problems are the number one cause for dogs being given up to rescue or worse, and not just Havanese. This is the single most important reason that I harp on it so much here. There are too many of these fine dogs being raised on grates by sideline breeders or worse.

It's seldom the owners fault but few realize how important the breeders place in this picture is until they find out the hard way. Retraining an adult dog is not a job for anyone short of experience or time.

I'm sorry that you are having so much trouble. I'm also sure that the dog has no motive other than not knowing any better. These dogs are very much creatures of habit and a new habit can start at any time. Their early training must be to avoid bad habits and not to try to play to their understanding.


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

Carol. so sorry this is still going on for you. Winston ALWAYS ALWAYS pooped in the crate. Period. Never worked. And it was a LITTLE crate.

I felt like :frusty: I read books, I read threads on here and received great advice. It just didn't work for us....

I'm sure you've read my threads about how the expen [or in my case baby playpen on Amazon] saved us.

I hope you find something that works for you. Big [[[[[[[HUG]]]]]] I would also recommend you start a log for a few days when you are home as to WHEN he poops whether in our out so you can figure out his schedule maybe [if he has one]. Winston poops almost every morning at 5am and afternoon around 4pm. I seriously logged it for a while so if I was leaving around these times I made sure he did his thing first.

I wish you both the best. It is no fun at all.

You might contact HRI to help you. They might be willing to work with you to help with the issue. My neighbor across the street has been having trouble with pee and the gal from HRI [she got him from HRI] took him for two weeks while they went on vacation to work with him....in his case, she thinks it's diabetes [sp?] poor thing, but I thought it was great. Worth a shot.


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## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

Tom, I've always valued what you have to say. Just so you know--when I was back in NY last month I read in the newspaper that the guy I bought Sherman from has been arrested for running a puppy mill. He also got in trouble (although he was able to keep his license) in 2006, which was when I got Sherman. He put an ad in the newspaper and told me his brother bred the dogs but he was selling them for him. I saw Sherman's brother, and the guy got me AKC papers for him, so I went through with it. But I was always a little suspicious. Something just didn't seem right. I didn't get Sherman until he was 3 months old and it was very difficult to potty train him from the first, but I thought he would be ok when Sherman was about 8 months old. But now it's a different story. Anyway, I can't get any help from the "breeder."
Thanks, 
Carol


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Bless your heart. I've been there many years ago. I hope you find a way to re-train, but I do know it will be hard. I think you have to do what is best for you -- and that's okay!!


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Carol,

You have worked so long with Sherman, I really have to give you credit for that. Things just still aren't working out for you two and maybe they just aren't meant to be. I'm not saying that in a negative way, maybe it just "is". I hope if you do decide that parting is the best thing for you and Sherman that you will give forum members or HRI consideration (as I know you have). It's not easy admitting that things aren't working out. I once had to re-home one of my dogs that everyone in my neighborhood adored, but he just wasn't right for me. I think the shame is in not admitting it.

I certainly feel your frustration. My little rescue Maltese, Winnie the pooh(per) is pad trained fairly well, maybe too well. He will be outside running and playing in the grass and run in the house to pee or poop, then run back outside again. Boy if that doesn't make a person wanna scream.:frusty:

Best of luck with which ever direction you decide to go in. We will be here for you no matter which one it is! :grouphug:

Beverly


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Sherman, I'm not surprised. None of it is your fault.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Carol, My heart sunk when I read the title of this thread, as you know I have always followed you and Sherman's progress with hopeful optomism!! I am so sorry to hear that he is regressing! I certainly makes for a stressful household when this kind of thing goes on. 
My only piece of advise is - crate, crate, crate!! It sounds like you are doing the right thing by putting the treat in the crate, so he starts to be comfortable in it. Since he is not a puppy, it may just take him a lot longer to learn that the crate is a "good" place. As a new member of Havanese Rescue I know that if you need help from them, they will be there for you!! I hope it does not come to that, as you have put your whole heart and soul into this boy, but it is certainly understandable if you need to take that step. PM me if there is anything that I can do to help you!
Laurie


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## Miss Paige (Apr 4, 2008)

Carol:

I am so sorry to read where things aren't working out with training Sherman-and as others have said HRI is just a short e-mail away. 

And Joe-I saw nothing wrong in your note-we all know how long you have been waiting for an addition to your household-think it over and then if you think Sherman would be that perfect addition-Let Carol know-it could be a win-win all the way around

Pat


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Carol, I can certainly understand your frustration! I am going through the same with my boys, mostly with Sammy. They will both be 2 yrs. old this summer as well, so we aren't dealing with young puppies here. It's a lot of work and when you get a day or two, or hopefully three, where there is no mess in the house, you then find one. :frusty: 

You will do what you have to do. We can't decide what is best for you and your family, only you can. I hope the crate training really makes a difference. For Joe, the ex-pen was a huge success for his Mugsy. I've had Sammy tethered to me a few times. He hates those rainy days and totally refuses to go out! 

Good luck with everything, Carol. You are doing your best and it is neither your fault nor Sherman's that it's not going so well. He's a good dog and you're a good mom to him. I am hoping things improve soon. ((hugs))


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## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

Hey Marj, thanks to you and everybody for your consoling words. I'm keeping the crate in the living room just in case, but I think closing the door to the basement and taking the litter boxes upstairs has "cured" him. For some reason or other, Sherman saw the basement as an adjunct of the outside and gave himself permission to poop there just in case he hadn't done it in the grass, etc. He also peed there occasionally. But now our house is just like our old one, just downstairs and upstairs, so I guess he feels more comfortable. At any rate, for the past day and a half, there have been no incidents. In my book, that rates very highly as some very peaceful hours. Let's hope!
Thanks again,
Carol


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Good boy, Sherman! Keep it up! :cheer2:


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Carol-
We bought spray to use outside to encourage Scooter to go where we wanted him to. We also used treats in the beginning and that helped along with taking him out almost every half hour at first. Now we have Poochie Bells, we've had them for almost two weeks and he's just now nudging them when he needs to go out. It is frustrating!!!:frusty:
I wish you luck and hope it gets better for you and Sherman!!!


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## boo2352 (Dec 18, 2006)

I hope things continue to look up. I once had a cocker spaniel that took forever to train -- it seemed like he kept trying to figure out the rules, but his thinking was very different from mine (e.g., the bathroom rug was the same as grass). He finally got it after a lot of training and patience. I hope this is the case with Sherman.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Not sure if this encourages you or not, but we still have a gate across the stairs that lead to the lower part of our house. When the gate is opened, it is usually because we are around there with them, the dnstrs. bathroom door is shut (there are rugs in there), the basement door is shut (we can't monitor what they do there) and the door to the vestibule is also closed (there is a , guess what?? , a rug there too! lol) so...... it is work and I have to keep reminding the hubby and our 3 teens to keep things closed, but that way we avoid messes that I have to clean up!

I'm hoping one day...... one day, we no longer have to even think about closing doors or having mats on the floor. :biggrin1:


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Sherman said:


> Kathy, thanks for the crate training article. It was great, but Sherman isn't a puppy. He's 2 and as far as I know has never been in a crate except at the groomer's. So it isn't as easy for him. Or me. But I'm still trying. I've got to do something to stop the behavior, and this is all I could think of. I don't want to give him away without trying everything. And I would blame the move, except for the fact that he was having potty issues in the old house too.
> Thanks again,
> Carol


Carol,
that article is written for any dog no matter the age. I think you need to understand, that it will be work and you will need to start over basically with his potty training. It is like any dog that is sold and he is supposedly housetrained. What happens is this dog goes to a new place and is confused. He smells odors that he didn't have before and needs to go out a different door then he had before. So, even though this dog was once potty trained, he now needs to be taught all over again with his new family. Your dog is really the same. It doesn't matter his age, but he needs to be taught again that he must potty in a certain place that YOU decide. To do that, you need to follow the crate training method and be CONSISTENT with him. Yes, it is a lot of work, but in the end, you will be successful and happier.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

You are so right, Kathy. If I really followed a proven method with consistency, I'm sure it would be a success here too. Guess I'm waiting for a time when things are a little less hectic around here! lol But you are correct.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Carol, I'm glad Sherman is doing better. For me, potty training is the most important thing to having a great pet. I hate to have to watch and clean up. Cicero has stopped using his pad and rings his bell or comes to me and whins when he wants to potty. It's okay...go ahead and call me a name. :biggrin1: BUT the only reason is becasue DH and I are retired and he helped with Cicero. If he wasn't walking and teaching...I was. It was constant. He was either with us -- or in his crate. There wasn't a choice or way for him to have an accident. I did remove all the rugs and still haven't put them back in fear that he might want to use them. I can live with no rugs for a while longer.

Many years ago I did have a Maltese that I tried so very hard to potty train. She would NOT go outside no matter how long we walked. She would run to the door wanting in and couldn't get to the dining room fast enough to pee. :frusty: I couldn't be with her all the time and didn't know as much as I know now about crates. After a year and a half I had had it. I could not deal with cleaning up after her every day. DH didn't like dogs at that time and was ill that she was using the house. I finally gave her to a friend that wanted her badly. I got to see her every now and then....but she never could get her trained either. 

Sorry for the long post, but I want you to know it happens to lots of people. All dogs are different and it's easier for some to get the message than others. I do hope you will use the crate when you are not hands on with Sherman to see if he will understand where he has to potty. I will understand if you have to re-home if he doesn't 'get it'. I still remember very clearly how I wanted to scream at times having to clean up. IT"S HARD!!!


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Carol- I'm glad to hear you've made progress with Sherman today. Just remember to take one day at a time. Just when you think they're "cured", something happens. But he's definitely on the right track. It will take alot of patience, but glad the news today is good!


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## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

Happy 4th of July everybody! We're making some progress here. Sherman has been spending the night in his crate beside my bed for 2 nights now. I still can't believe he goes right in it and sleeps all night. I never hear a peep out of him. It's a miracle. He doesn't need it during the day--it's at night when he roams around the house. Also I just found out the former owners had a puppy. That might explain a lot of Sherman's troubles. If I didn't have this forum, I can't imagine what I would have done with the little miscreant. But all's well today. Yup, we're going day by day. That's all.
Thanks again,
Carol


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

That doesn't surprise me about the puppy once living there.

I'm dealing with this problem with Gucci right now, too. I dog-sat 3 havs/silks for a week and the boys marked a lot, so of course, Gucci is trying to cover their scent back UP with hers...because its HER house, and yeah...Here we GO again. That is just intrinsic behavior in the animal world, but a pain in the arse for me. The carpet cleaners are coming this next week, but I sure hope that works. 

A dog is a dog, afterall....

Kara


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## NancyVB (Jun 27, 2007)

:thumb: Carol, Glad to Hear the good news. Way to go Sherman! :whoo:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

great news Carole. good boy Sherman.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

What Kara said is so true. Kodi is perfectly trained to the pads and outside. But if I bring him down the basement (where the litter boxes are) he will lift his leg and pee somewhere. He never does that upstairs.


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

Hang in there!


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## havaluv (Oct 15, 2007)

I think there must be something wrong with me where housetraining goes. I never got my yorkie housetrained and wondered if I would ever get Ollie housetrained. We have been struggling with it for months. Knock on wood, but about two weeks ago, he suddenly "got it". He hasn't had an accident it two weeks. He goes to the potty pad (without prompting) or he goes outside. (I have a chihuahua that is paper trained) Halleluia! I think he truly didn't completely understand before and then something just "clicked". I know he may backslide, but I'm so encouraged and relieved. Hang in there...Sherman will get there.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Hooray Carole. That's great news. Progress is progress even if it is in baby steps. I'm glad you are taking things day by day. That's all any of us can do. Give Sherman a big hug!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

We got Poochie Bells, they hang on the door for the doggie to ring (rattle) when they need to go out. We've had them for several weeks and Scooter has just figured them out the past few days. Every now and then he rings them, gets let out and chews on a stick! It's worth it to take him out a few extra times to get him to go potty outside. We've been so excited that he's using the bells!!!


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Sherman said:


> Happy 4th of July everybody! We're making some progress here. Sherman has been spending the night in his crate beside my bed for 2 nights now. I still can't believe he goes right in it and sleeps all night. I never hear a peep out of him. It's a miracle. He doesn't need it during the day--it's at night when he roams around the house. Also I just found out the former owners had a puppy. That might explain a lot of Sherman's troubles. If I didn't have this forum, I can't imagine what I would have done with the little miscreant. But all's well today. Yup, we're going day by day. That's all.
> Thanks again,
> Carol


:cheer2: It sounds like things are going much better. That's a great 4th celebration! :cheer2:


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## herrick51 (Mar 4, 2008)

Soooooo glad to hear Sherman is doing better. I know it's a struggle. Brody was 5 months old when we got him and had a doggy door at the breeders, but no real training. We got him in 
Florida, worked with him initially for about a month there, then spent 6 weeks on the road in our truck camper (He's a terrific traveler and actually did well in the small space of the camper.) However, back home in Oregon in a 3 bedroom house, he reverted to peeing everywhere and pooping when the urge struck. It took a lot a work with taking him out every hour, lots of Charlie Bear treats whenever he peed or pooped outside, and STILL he made lots of messes (I also forgave hinm since he had surgery during this time), until about 3 weeks ago when the lighbulb seemed to go on! Now he's near perfect, although I do keep the bedroom doors closed to limit his range in the house and really pay attention when he gets restless and circles. He's 10 months old now, and I think we're seeing the progress!
Hugs to you and Sherman. He's such a cutie, I know he'll "get it" soon!


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

Glad to hear that Sherman is doing better and has adjusted to his crate.

When my 'granddog' comes to visit, she will go down to our basement to poop! She doesn't do this at home. Well, my DS suggested that since she lives in a second floor apartment and has to go down stairs to potty, maybe she thinks that's what you do here! I could be, but she doesn't pee, just poops. So, we close the door when she is here......


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## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

Hi Judy A,
I think that's what triggered Sherman's habit of pooping and sometimes peeing in the basement. We didn't have a basement in our old house and the cats and I were just ecstatic to finally have one. I put both litter boxes down there and was so happy to not have to smell them anymore. Now I keep the door to the basement closed and had to put the litter boxes upstairs. He's been perfect for more than week now even though I stopped putting him in the crate at night. I think the threat is enough!
I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I still don't trust him. But I'm hopeful!
Thanks,
Carol


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Oh Carol, that makes me happy to hear. Keep us up to date with Shermans progress!!


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## Perugina (May 28, 2008)

Sophie is 11 months old and we still have a few accidents...usually because we ignore her whine when we get too busy (or while everyone is arguing over whose turn it is). It's important to get a spray that totally gets rid of/neutralizes the odor from any surface or they will go back to the same place. We also put Sophie on a stricter feeding/watering/pottying schedule for awhile. This helped a lot. What also helped is having two different phrases like "go potty" and go "poopie". Reward with praise and a special treat that she only gets for these two behaviors (we used chicken). Sophie sleeps in her crate at night. When I am at work she is in her pen in the kitchen and can hold it til three when the kids get home from school. We never give her free access to the house if we are not home or are sleeping. Sometimes I'll block off the steps and carpeted side room and let her roam the hardwood area if I'm going to be gone a short time. I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything you've heard before.


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## michi715 (Apr 8, 2008)

Glad to hear things are getting better...keep up the good work (both of you)!


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## bella serra (Jun 23, 2008)

ok..my bella is soundig like sherman. She is 5 mo old. i have 2 chihuahua's that r 100% potty pad trained in condo. Bella doesnt get it at all..so i take her on many walks and she still comes back in the house and goes everywhere. i know havs are really smart dogs so i just dont get it??
they all get along really well together and i dont want to give up on her, she is so darn cute!! and sweet..please help...


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## suzyfrtz (Nov 12, 2007)

There are many threads that deal with the troubles of potty training and if you do a search you will find alot of helpful advice. We are told that they can be a little more difficult to train than some other breeds. There are many training methods. Bella is still very young. Even adult dogs sometimes relapse. 

This is what worked for me: taking Cazzie out after meals, playtime and about every two hours; reinforcing "good potty!!" when he goes outside and giving a "potty" treat; watching closely to see "potty" behavior, like sniffing, circling. I never used pads so can't comment on that but know that many others have. When you see her squat, make a noise that will distract her and then take her right outside and praise lavishly when she does her business. Many others use crating effectively. Don't become discouraged! Cazzie just ate a hole in my new carpeting and I still love him! With Havs, the love and joy they give to you outweighs the discouragement of potty training as well as other mischief. Keep us posted!

Suzy AKA Sue


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## talemaker_havanese (Dec 4, 2007)

Carol:

How did everything turn out with Sherman? Before taking a Havanese to a shelter, I would hope the breeder would take him back. 

If I was the breeder, I would prefer him to come back, get trained and then find his forever home as they all deserve.


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## RCKNROB (Nov 27, 2007)

Hey if you can't deal with him, I will take him. I thought I was going to go crazy with mine and I have 2. It has taken me 8 months to be able to say mine are trained. Knock on wood. I always crate them at night and when I leave the house. I just put in a doggie door and 1-Auggie has it down pat. 2-Diva is confused, she is a airhead. LOL Auggie would never go on a leash, that is a problem still.


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## havaluv (Oct 15, 2007)

Just to put in my two cents and hopefully encouragement. I thought Oliver would NEVER get it. (we use a potty pad AND outside...for several reasons I won't go into right now) It was so hard for him to understand, he just didn't get it. Suddenly at about 8 months, he got it. Just wha-LA, one day he no longer pottied in the wrong spot. The first week with no accidents, I couldn't believe it, the second I was ecstatic. I don't know why it sometimes takes so long, but don't give up. Hopefully, that lightbulb will go off one day and they'll suddenly figure out what all the fuss was about!


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