# Insurance - yes or no?



## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

We are bringing our little girl home November 1st. We've done a ton of research but are unsure about pet insurance.

Thoughts? Opinions? Experiences?


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I would say, get it. Get it now don't wait! It's cheap. By the time I looked into it, my guys were older and a lot of stuff wasn't covered because it was considered pre-existing.


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## Marbel (May 20, 2014)

Which insurance is best?


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Recently, Deacon Blues has done a lot of research on pet insurance and based on his input I'm in the process of signing Emmie up for Trupanion.


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

MarinaGirl said:


> Recently,, DeaconBlues has done a lot of research on pet insurance and based on his input I'm in the process of signing Emmie up for Trupanion.


Who is DeaconBlues and how much is this per month and what is covered?


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

He's a forum member and very knowledgeable. Regarding cost, you'll need to get a quote from the company or a pet insurance broker yourself as it varies by city and other factors (e.g. age, spayed or not, etc.).


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

Excellent - I will keep my eye peeled for him!

I requested a quote, thank you!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I have Healthy Paws insurance for my two fur kids.


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## BearsMom (Jul 16, 2012)

I got it for Bear and the 1 time that he was really sick, they reimbursed me 80% (after I met my deductible) of the costs (he ended up having to stay overnight and there were a lot of tests that were run). I am glad that I decided to go with it. I have Healthy Paws as well. They were easy to work with and the reimbursement was mailed quickly.


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

Can we get it for just the first few months or is it a yearly thing?


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Insurance companies require your pet to be examined before the policy is issued. They will not cover a pre existing condition. I believe there is a waiting period usually before the policy is in effect. I think most policies are monthly. You may never need to use your policy. I sure wish I had insurance for my first Havanese before he was older. He had a heart murmur which required examines, x-rays and several medications daily...


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Info about Trupanion that Deacon Blues provided to me. 

Trupanion gives you the option to choose your own deductible so you can decide what’s best for you, and there is no physical examination required. Regarding pre-existing conditions, if the dog has not been treated by a veterinarian in the last 18 months for a Luxated Patella for example, and it suddenly needed a $4000 surgery – that would be paid. And a medical condition documented after the beginning of insurance coverage also cannot be used to exclude the dog from coverage in the future.

Pet insurance is regulated by state insurance commissioners. Trupanion is publicly traded so they are also regulated by the SEC. Trupanion has no lifetime limits or maximums, and you only pay the deductible once per condition. They are a Seattle company founded by a group of 13 veterinarians. Where other insurers specifically exclude hereditary and genetic issues, Trupanion specifically includes them.

In general terms they cover accidents, congenital and hereditary conditions, illnesses, surgeries, diagnostic tests, hospital stays, medications, and veterinary supplements. Trupanion also covers prescription diets but there may be some limitations in terms of how long the coverage is for.

Trupanion also offers an additional care rider that is approximately $7-$10/month and covers things like acupuncture, chiropractic, homeopathy, physical and rehabilitative therapy, even hydrotherapy.

Waiting periods: Accident coverage begins 5 days following the policy enrollment date and illness coverage (including congenital and hereditary disorders) begins 30 days following the policy enrollment date.

Coinsurance: On every approved claim they pay 90% of your actual veterinary bill for costs arising from injury or illness, less the veterinary exam fee, deductible and applicable sales tax. 

Policy transfer: A policy may be transferred from you to another person for the same insured pet if the policy premium is current and the request for transfer is made in writing by both involved parties.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

If you're interested in Trupanion after carefully doing your own research, PM me and I will provide a link to a dog & cat insurance broker; Trupanion gives a 6% discount to her clients, which isn’t available by going to them directly. Note that she's a broker for 3 pet insurance companies - Trupanion, Pets Best, & Healthy Paws.


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## Deacon Blues (Nov 22, 2013)

m&m mom said:


> Can we get it for just the first few months or is it a yearly thing?


Most policies, particularly those with the better companies, can be cancelled at any time.

I'll have all my research available very soon and will post a link. Insurance allows you to what's in your Havanese' best interests without having to weight it against what you can afford.

I've learned a great many interesting things about insurance as it applies to our breed, I'll have the link up soon.

Deacon Blues
aka Gary


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

Wow, thank you!! I need to present this to my husband because to him it might feel like another monthly fee...m

How long would you suggest having it?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

You really have to do your homework and make the individual decision that's right for you. Some people know they don't have access to a large amount of money if their dog suddenly needs an expensive procedure, but can handle a monthly payment.

We choose to self-insure, meaning that we have enough money set aside that we could cover (and HAVE covered!  ) any medical situation that comes up. We do this for my horse as well. Yes, we can be hit with a big bill, but our belief is that, for us, it is less expensive, with fewer unknowns, than an insurance policy.


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

Very true. I have a lot of research ahead of me. Just hard to tell a credible company - not to mention if it's worth it.


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

Gary - Did I miss your link or is it not up yet? I'm super overwhelmed and still not sure if we should get it or not.

Thanks for all your help!


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

I found this and it makes me lean towards Healthy Pet or Trupanion.

But what if we never use it and it's a waste?? Ugh


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

Peace of mind is never a waste!  If you never use it then thank your lucky stars you have a robust and healthy dog! 

I have PetCare insurance on Archer.


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

Oops, this was the info I found that didn't post above:

http://www.consumersadvocate.org/pet-insurance/best-pet-insurance.html?matchtype=e&keyword=pet+insurance+reviews&adpos=1t2&subid=google&gclid=CIipnLiwt8ECFQsvaQodCm4ACw


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

Naturelover said:


> If you never use it then thank your lucky stars you have a robust and healthy dog!


Not using it would be a waste! What I'm asking is if people actually use it or not.


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## BettyJ (Feb 13, 2014)

I just joined Health Paws. There are pros and cons to all of them. I liked how Healthy Paws has a sample policy, reviews your pets medical records within the 30 day period, and had a lot of positive customer reviews. Payment is based on your actual vet cost and there is only one deduction a year. Didn't like that they only have accidental teeth coverage and nothing to do with vaccinations. It was very hard to decide and I hope I chose the right one. You want to make sure you get it before there are any pre-existing conditions to consider. I decided to get insurance after my daughter spent about $3900 on ligament tear surgery and her dog has a very high chance of it happening to the other leg.


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## goiter6 (Mar 6, 2010)

Right now we self insure for our pet.

But this thread got me thinking, really to answer the question of if pet insurance is a good idea for a person the missing part of the equation is what are the possible medical expenses for a Havanese.

My general impression is that a series of diagnostic tests for unspecified illnesses would run $500 to $1000, a minor surgery would be in the $1500 range, a major surgery for a dog would run in the $3000 range, and a constant medication would run ~$600 a year ($50 a month). 

Do those numbers seem ball park correct?


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

BettyJ said:


> I just joined Health Paws. There are pros and cons to all of them. I liked how Healthy Paws has a sample policy, reviews your pets medical records within the 30 day period, and had a lot of positive customer reviews. Payment is based on your actual vet cost and there is only one deduction a year. Didn't like that they only have accidental teeth coverage and nothing to do with vaccinations. It was very hard to decide and I hope I chose the right one. You want to make sure you get it before there are any pre-existing conditions to consider. I decided to get insurance after my daughter spent about $3900 on ligament tear surgery and her dog has a very high chance of it happening to the other leg.


I'm leaning towards Healthy Paws. What do you mean by payment is based on your actual vet cost? Payment they send us or payment we make?


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

goiter6 said:


> Right now we self insure for our pet.
> 
> But this thread got me thinking, really to answer the question of if pet insurance is a good idea for a person the missing part of the equation is what are the possible medical expenses for a Havanese.
> 
> ...


I have no idea if those numbers are correct and that is what is making this so hard. If these are almost certain to happen, why wouldn't people have the insurance? You mean self-insure by setting aside or having the money to cover it yourself?


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I do have insurance, Healthy Paws for peace of mind. I did not have insurance with my first Havanese Sparky. Unfortunately he had a heart murmur which worsened with age. He was 14 years before I would have used it. I know the cost of his medications monthly for Lasix,Enalapril,Vetmedin,Hydrocodone was more than $50.00 monthly. Then there were x-rays, tests, exams & emergency visits. My friends dog had surgery that was >$6,000. Then again you can self-insure for an unexpected medical expense. It is a difficult choice...


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

like all insurance the odds are in favour of the insurance company. I put 25 a month in a special fund.


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## goiter6 (Mar 6, 2010)

m&m mom said:


> I have no idea if those numbers are correct and that is what is making this so hard. If these are almost certain to happen, why wouldn't people have the insurance? You mean self-insure by setting aside or having the money to cover it yourself?


Self insure means being ready to cover whatever comes up.

The reason to not have insurance is $40 a month is $7000+ for the lifetime of a Havanese. That's a lot of medical attention. The insurance companies have highly paid people making sure the population of policy holders are paying more in than getting out. Part of the reason for buying a purebred from a reputable breeder is to get a healthier dog than the general pet population.


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

True and we are working with a breeder partly for that reason.

However, what are costs of swallowing a foreign object or an illness? I've heard of single surgeries that cost $7,000!


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

A lot of people insure for the first year when they are more apt to swallow something or get into trouble. I am going to downgrade my insurance soon as Archer seems to be growing up healthily and doesn't seem prone to eating stuff these days.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Boy, Jen! Kodi didn't get the message about growing up and not eating stuff he shouldn't! We have had 3 scary incidents with "dietary indiscretion". And all were as a supposed adult dog.  that said, i still feel comfortable with our decision to self-insure. I do like your idea, though, of insuring when a pup is young, to cover any possible genetic/congenital problems that could be very expensive to fix. But you'd have to be very careful that the insurance you chose didn't disallow genetic/congenital conditions. A lot do.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

I chose *Trupanion *because of the following:

• 90% coverage for treatments of injuries & illnesses, including hereditary conditions
• No payout limits
• Reimburse from actual vet bill instead of a predetermined benefit schedule
• Option to choose your own pet health insurance deductible
• Will not be penalized because you file claims
• Covers therapeutic pet foods and dietary supplements prescribed and purchased through a veterinarian


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## BettyJ (Feb 13, 2014)

Pet insurance reimburses you the percentage chosen on your policy. You want that amount based off you actual vet bill.


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

Well Karen I still have Archer insured on a pretty premium plan and I intend to take him off of it once he is a year, or at least reduce it to a very cheap plan, but I haven't done it yet! Not sure I trust myself to self-insure and not run off to Brazil with the money.  
He still does grab the occasional mussel shell near the beach and Kleenex in the house but the battles of having to yank stuff out of his mouth are over. I have also relaxed a little now that I understand more about what can pass through him but man was I stressed when he ate a mouthful of concrete chips!

Looking forward to seeing you soon at Aquatic Experience!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It IS amazing what they can get away with eating! Kodi, unfortunately, is still a HUGE kleenex eater. We do try to make sure he can't get at them, and STRONGLY discourage him "helping himself" to people's purses left on the floor! (My little klepto! ). But we've found that paper seems to pass without incident. When he was in for his last annual exam they asked me to bring a stool sample, which I did. The tech came back in the room with this look. Of amazement on his face... "Did you know there was a paper towel in there?" ound:

I'm looking forward to AE too. (I think). I've been totally out flat busy. In fact, I'm sitting in the airport waiting for my fligt to Columbus for a talk there tonight. I'm coming right home in the morning, though... I can't afford any extra time away right now. Because we're organizing the AGA aquascaping contest at AE, I'll actually be arriving in Chicago on Wed. night and leaving Mon. AM. So it will be a long conference! ...and Scott talked me into aquascaping the Project Piaba tanks for him. 

There are a few small tanks still available in the aquascaping contest if you're interested (hint, hint). We have another Canadian person who is entered, and we are arranging to get plants from a local store. There's good prize money for the winners!


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## petepdx (Jul 29, 2011)

100% get it. Do a lot of Internet research. For me I went with GoPetPlan. Kit is a rescue (as in found on the street). First getting her healthy again, then a luxating patella in one leg, and last year seizures from what the best guess is a blood clot. I'm out less then $1,000.


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

krandall said:


> I'm looking forward to AE too. (I think). I've been totally out flat busy. In fact, I'm sitting in the airport waiting for my fligt to Columbus for a talk there tonight. I'm coming right home in the morning, though... I can't afford any extra time away right now. Because we're organizing the AGA aquascaping contest at AE, I'll actually be arriving in Chicago on Wed. night and leaving Mon. AM. So it will be a long conference! ...and Scott talked me into aquascaping the Project Piaba tanks for him.
> 
> There are a few small tanks still available in the aquascaping contest if you're interested (hint, hint). We have another Canadian person who is entered, and we are arranging to get plants from a local store. There's good prize money for the winners!


Hm maybe I should be moving this over to the personal thread? Don't want to take over the insurance discussion.  I'll be helping out at the Piaba booth as well and I'm happy to help out aquascaping those tanks if need be. As for the contest... I must admit I am a bit nervous as I have never done anything like that (I've aquascaped huge public aquarium tanks, but don't make a point of following the trends for the smaller tanks aside from the occasional drooling over Amano books). I also really want to catch as many speakers as I possibly can and be at the Piaba booth, so I don't want to put too much on my plate to do! I imagine a lot of contestants will be arriving with fully kitted out tanks and soaked wood and their own beautifully grown plants so I feel I wouldn't stand a chance!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Naturelover said:


> Hm maybe I should be moving this over to the personal thread? Don't want to take over the insurance discussion.  I'll be helping out at the Piaba booth as well and I'm happy to help out aquascaping those tanks if need be. As for the contest... I must admit I am a bit nervous as I have never done anything like that (I've aquascaped huge public aquarium tanks, but don't make a point of following the trends for the smaller tanks aside from the occasional drooling over Amano books). I also really want to catch as many speakers as I possibly can and be at the Piaba booth, so I don't want to put too much on my plate to do! I imagine a lot of contestants will be arriving with fully kitted out tanks and soaked wood and their own beautifully grown plants so I feel I wouldn't stand a chance!


I really don't know what to expect for the small tank competition. The teams were "pre-vetted", to prove that they actually had some aquascape experience. But for the small category, it was first come, first served. There are people entered in the small category who had to ask us where they could buy aquarium plants, and who clearly haven't got the faintest idea what it's all about. That's OK&#8230; They'll have some fun, get some experience and ideas, and go home with a very nice tank.

But I understand not wanting to spread yourself too thin. We have a number of people who will help with the AGA booth once it's set up, and the contest tanks are set up. But until then, I think it's going to be CRAZY busy. When are you arriving? I'm getting there Wed. night, a
s a local TV station wants to interview us about the contest on Thurs. AM. WPA wanted to make sure there was at least a tank or two that they could show.


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## m&m mom (Sep 27, 2014)

We went with a high deductible plan through Trupanion. Thanks everyone!


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