# CHANGED MY MIND



## Suzi

Zoey is being returned and going to be sold as a pet. This is the hardest thing I have ever done. 
SHE IS STAYING SORRY FOR THE DRAMA CANT SEND MY BABY BACK


----------



## rdanielle

Sorry to hear


----------



## dodrop82

Wow....that makes me really sad....Poor Zoey...


----------



## lfung5

I haven't been on the forum that much. Did I miss something? Why are you returning her??? I know you wanted to show her, was she not show quality after all? I'm so sorry to hear this


----------



## TilliesMom

WHAT!??? Why!? I am so confused and sorry... I don't understand??


----------



## rokipiki

Why? I wouldn't return my baby for any reasons! Poor Zoey, she must feel sad and abandoned!


----------



## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

So very sad, I hope she gets a wonderful forever home where she will be loved just because she is Zoey! Maybe someone on the forum is looking for a lovely little girl. I hope this is not the last we hear of her!!


----------



## Kathie

So sorry to hear that - I know you're really going to miss that little girl. You need to be sure you have a breeder that knows what they're doing when it comes to show dogs. There are usually a select few that are truly "show quality". Sorry you are all having to go through this. Maddie will miss her, too.


----------



## Thumper

I am behind on threads, I had the flu last week, what happened? Why did you decide to return zoey? 

Kara


----------



## Pipersmom

Poor Zoey!!! What happened is she sick? How long have you had her? I can't even imagine.


----------



## pjewel

I can't imagine either. For me, once they hit the ground on my turf, they're mine. Kinda like having a baby.


----------



## Suzi

Zoey has a under bite, But I have not taken her to the vet yet. Their is a possibility a very slim one that her jaw is just growing at a different rate right now she is almost 4mo old and I swear her bite was normal at 10 weeks . It is very sad. When you look at her she does not have a chin that comes out her facial features look normal . 
Her mom and dad had 20 puppy's 4 litters and Zoey is the only one that this happened to. Her mom is retired now not because of Zoey but she was ready .
My HD thinks that this is what was meant to be and that Showing just is not in the stars for me I am beginning to think he is right.
PS I don't think I can actually return her I might just give up.


----------



## madeleine

Check her teeth. Sometime retained baby teeth can make the mouth go off. I would keep Zoey for at least a pet, and at a later date purchase your show girl. Two is just as easy as one and they have company.


----------



## kudo2u

Suzi,

I'm going to say something that will probably be wildly unpopular. And extremely controversial. But I believe that returning Zoey would be extremely irresponsible, and very difficult on the dog.

We have discussed this before, with Maddie - you CAN show Zoey. Just not in conformity. You can compete in Agility. You can do other sorts of trials. You can (and should) have much more experience with Havanese in general, and with the show ring, before you try to find the "perfect" dog to show for conformity.

From our last (pretty lengthy) discussion, I thought you were in agreement with that. I thought you were going to start training for agility, start visiting dog shows and meeting breeders and handlers to try and find a good mentor. I thought you understood and agreed that was the best route. And now, to hear this, I'm extremely disappointed.

This is really harsh, but it sounds like you are so bent on showing dogs, that you have forgotten what's most important here. The dogs themselves.

Zoey is part of your family now. She and Maddie have bonded. If you send Zoey away, then entire dynamic of your family will change. I really hope you reconsider, and see that you ended up with both Maddie and Zoey for a reason. They are both part of your life now, and they both have something to teach you. So embrace them, learn from them, and later (years, not months) if you still feel you want to show for conformation, you'll have experience in the ring in other categories, you'll have mentors, and through Maddie and Zoey, you will have a more thorough knowledge of the breed, so you'll be able to make better choices to help you meet your goals.


----------



## Suzi

kudo2u said:


> Suzi,
> 
> I'm going to say something that will probably be wildly unpopular. And extremely controversial. But I believe that returning Zoey would be extremely irresponsible, and very difficult on the dog.
> 
> We have discussed this before, with Maddie - you CAN show Zoey. Just not in conformity. You can compete in Agility. You can do other sorts of trials. You can (and should) have much more experience with Havanese in general, and with the show ring, before you try to find the "perfect" dog to show for conformity.
> 
> From our last (pretty lengthy) discussion, I thought you were in agreement with that. I thought you were going to start training for agility, start visiting dog shows and meeting breeders and handlers to try and find a good mentor. I thought you understood and agreed that was the best route. And now, to hear this, I'm extremely disappointed.
> 
> This is really harsh, but it sounds like you are so bent on showing dogs, that you have forgotten what's most important here. The dogs themselves.
> 
> Zoey is part of your family now. She and Maddie have bonded. If you send Zoey away, then entire dynamic of your family will change. I really hope you reconsider, and see that you ended up with both Maddie and Zoey for a reason. They are both part of your life now, and they both have something to teach you. So embrace them, learn from them, and later (years, not months) if you still feel you want to show for conformation, you'll have experience in the ring in other categories, you'll have mentors, and through Maddie and Zoey, you will have a more thorough knowledge of the breed, so you'll be able to make better choices to help you meet your goals.


 You are so right That is what I decided on sunday when I found out I even found out that I can even show her in confirmation that their have been dogs that finish with a under bite. I at least can stay involved and learn more. It was yesterday after talking to a friend that I changed my mind and called my breeder. And not to mention a shot of tequila and several beers that I wrote this post last night. :frusty:
Today is a new day and I look at her face love her to tears I cant do it. She has her forever home:grouphug:


----------



## pjewel

I'm glad to hear that Suzi. It is inconceivable to me that you can take a dog into your home, give them love and care and then, because they're not perfect, consider saying 'sorry, bye bye." When we go into the delivery room to have our children, we don't know what we're going to get, but most of us vow to give them the best lives possible, whatever their limitations turn out to be.

I'm happy you've reconsidered.


----------



## Paige

I am so confused here. I thought Zoey had the rare bone disease. Was that Maddie. Is the one you are wanting to give up only have a bite off. If you want to get into the show/breeding world, you are going to have to find a breeder that will mentor you. Otherwise every dog you buy will be a shot in the dark. As you know, I have Preston. His breeder offered to take him back the minute I told him about his legs. It was never a thought for me, he was and has always been part of the family, since the day I bought him home. Dogs with special needs, need to be in good loving homes. If you can't provide that, please give the dog to someone you know that will take care of her.


----------



## whimsy

Looks like a happy ending


----------



## sashamom

Suzi said:


> Zoey is being returned and going to be sold as a pet. This is the hardest thing I have ever done.
> SHE IS STAYING SORRY FOR THE DRAMA CANT SEND MY BABY BACK


I really cannot tell if you want to keep her or not. I live in the Seattle area if you are looking for a rehome for her I would love to consider it. I do hope you are not serious, she has been with you for a while now. Linda


----------



## krandall

I'm glad you've decided to do the right thing, Suzi. But it shouldn't be about showing. I chose my breeder and my puppy VERY carefully, specifically because I had specific goals. That said, if it had turned out that, in spite of my best efforts, Kodi was not suitable for the kind of competition I was interested in, once he came home and was vet checked, he was mine. For good and always.

There are no guaranties in life, especially when dealing with animals. I hope that Kodi and I will be competing together for years. But if he slipped off an obstacle tomorrow, and could never compete again, I would love him no less.


----------



## lfung5

YAHOO!


----------



## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

I guess it is difficult to make a decision when all around you say you are not doing the right thing for the dog. The right thing for Zoey might be to go to the person on the forum who offered to take her. Only Suzi can decide. What I am trying to say is from all the posts, Suzi may feel pressure to keep Zoey, and that is not good for Zoey or for Suzi. (I am just sayin....)


----------



## Suzi

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> I guess it is difficult to make a decision when all around you say you are not doing the right thing for the dog. The right thing for Zoey might be to go to the person on the forum who offered to take her. Only Suzi can decide. What I am trying to say is from all the posts, Suzi may feel pressure to keep Zoey, and that is not good for Zoey or for Suzi. (I am just sayin....)


 No I don't feel pressure I had made up my mind before all the posts . I had a long talk with a friend yesterday who turned my head the wrong direction because she was disappointed for me and knew the goals I had with Zoey.
Because a under bight if it does not correct itself is a genetic fault and I would not be able to breed her.
I guess it even happens to the best of breeders their has been another trend that a 10 mo old pup did not prove to be a show dog and was sold as a pet that dog was from two champion lines. I asked why and it was because of a turned out foot. And from what I gather the breeder acquired her from another breeder both very reputable and have a lot of wins in the show ring . So even when two very knowledgeable breeders pick a dog to be a show dog things can go wrong.


----------



## pjewel

Bottom line, I think, is as Karen said, they are our family and there are no guarantees, so if it turns out they're not meant for the show ring or breeding, so be it. Who was it who said, it's not a purse or a pair of shoes. These are family members with beating hearts and tender souls and we owe them our love . . . and care.


----------



## LilyMyLove

It happens all the time that dogs turn out not to be "Show Quality" as they get older, but from the videos I have seen you have some sweet playful fun babies on your hands and maybe it was meant to be.


----------



## Suzi

LilyMyLove said:


> It happens all the time that dogs turn out not to be "Show Quality" as they get older, but from the videos I have seen you have some sweet playful fun babies on your hands and maybe it was meant to be.


 You are so right I figure if I can't afford a third dog then why would I think I could afford to show dogs. I am still hoping her jaw will grow so I have still not let go.


----------



## RikiDaisyDixie

*Showing and adaptable dogs...*

The one who would miss her most is the other dog...my two are inseparable...and now we are three. Dixie came from another home where she had lived with her mommy dog all her nine years and her owner. When her owner got sick she wanted someone to take care of her, so she found me through the grapevine. The first night she was devastated...searching frantically...after that she was right at home...fitting into the pack (cuz she wasn't alone) and enjoying life.

Riki lived with us for a year without Daisy, and he does okay alone...but Daisy who has not been away from him for more than a few hours goes nuts when he isn't around...she acts depressed! Riki is her toy, she has known him since she was 10 weeks old
. The best thing about two is they bond with each other, so you can go out for a few hours and know that they are okay with each other and not missing you so much...
I understand Mommy dog who is 13 is sick though, I cannot imagine her grief at losing her nine year old "puppy" after all these years...

So now after all these years I do have a champion, and I don't have to go through the nerves and expense of showing her. Dixie came to us ready to go, already a champion. Just got to get the housetraining thing under control.

Riki has enjoyed agility, Daisy not so much. But I "show" them all the time, I teach kids how to sit down with the dogs and let the dogs approach them. They are canine good citizens and they entertain at fairs and schools.

I have a lot of friends who show and it is a huge job...and now that many people hire professional handlers, it is hard to compete with their experience when many of us are just novices. One of the show dogs I knew never even went outside to make sure the coat was perfect...it has gotten very competitive now that there are so many lovely dogs. There are all levels of showing...but it is a lot of work! And the idea to show is to breed only the absolute best dog with health testing and improving the breed quality. Talk to some of our breeders and show folks and you will see how much time and effort goes into this. It is a labor of love.

Havanese are very sensitive, and they sense your every emotion. Riki even would go the wrong way in agility if I even thought it! So unless you have nerves of steel and financial means that are quite extensive, showing is really rough even with a breeder/mentor. Even agility fees have gone up! But "showing" your dog as a canine good citizen costs you nothing and the rewards are many.

I put my efforts now into Havanese Rescue. At one time I thought I would like to show, to have a perfect dog, to have people ooh and aah. Well the kind of showing I do is different, I do have perfect dogs, and people ooh and aah because they know lots of tricks.

Riki is not physically perfect but he is an Ambassador for the Breed. He greets everyone, and I mean everyone!

Good luck with whatever decision you make. Trust deep down in your heart and gut...you know what is best for you and your family. Breeders find great homes for dogs that didn't turn out as show prospects and also for their retired dogs. Havanese Rescue has places many, many and all the dogs do just fine. If it is a business decision, it is one thing...an emotional one, another.

Dixie came into our lives a few months ago and has become quite a part of our pack. I don't know if she misses the folks she knew before...but I do know if she saw them she would be so excited. Dogs are often much more forgiving than we humans!


----------



## Ninja

I'm very upset, and I think that's because I probably don't understand the situation. Did you only purchase Zoey so you could show her? Or did you want a sister for Maddie?

The fact that you were going to give her away because of an underbite really scares me. And now your deciding on keeping her because you realized you are able to still show her?

Sorry if I misunderstand the situation but thats what it seems like to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, I just don't get it.


----------



## sashamom

Suzi said:


> No I don't feel pressure I had made up my mind before all the posts . I had a long talk with a friend yesterday who turned my head the wrong direction because she was disappointed for me and knew the goals I had with Zoey.
> Because a under bight if it does not correct itself is a genetic fault and I would not be able to breed her.
> I guess it even happens to the best of breeders their has been another trend that a 10 mo old pup did not prove to be a show dog and was sold as a pet that dog was from two champion lines. I asked why and it was because of a turned out foot. And from what I gather the breeder acquired her from another breeder both very reputable and have a lot of wins in the show ring . So even when two very knowledgeable breeders pick a dog to be a show dog things can go wrong.


Suzi, I am glad you have made your decision. Where in OR are you located? I grew up in Sweet Home and my brother lives in Newberg. I will be down for a visit sometime and would love to meet somewhere so the "Havs" can meet and maybe play. Linda & Sasha


----------



## Suzi

Ninja said:


> I'm very upset, and I think that's because I probably don't understand the situation. Did you only purchase Zoey so you could show her? Or did you want a sister for Maddie?
> 
> The fact that you were going to give her away because of an underbite really scares me. And now your deciding on keeping her because you realized you are able to still show her?
> 
> Sorry if I misunderstand the situation but thats what it seems like to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, I just don't get it.


 I payed a lot more money for Zoey because she is a full Papered AKC Dog. I am interested in showing and I have been sense I got Maddie. When I talked to her breeder she said she would take Zoey back and we could work something out as far as another dog or I can get a refund for the difference between a pet quality. I have decided not to return her. So I guess in answer to your question yes I bought Zoey with the intention of showing her.and possibly breeding her.We are keeping her because we love her. The only reason I would still show her is to find out if I enjoy showing or not other wise I would just keep spending to much to follow my desire to become a breeder.


----------



## Suzi

sashamom said:


> Suzi, I am glad you have made your decision. Where in OR are you located? I grew up in Sweet Home and my brother lives in Newberg. I will be down for a visit sometime and would love to meet somewhere so the "Havs" can meet and maybe play. Linda & Sasha


 I live fairly close to Newberg in a town called West Linn that would be fun to get together:whoo:


----------



## Suzi

Thank you Rikidaisy, You inspire me to just let my pups be pups and enjoy them for who they are. I meet someone at the last show and she said she would be more than happy to bring her Havanese over and I can be the birth mom and take care of all the puppy's .


----------



## krandall

Suzi said:


> Thank you Rikidaisy, You inspire me to just let my pups be pups and enjoy them for who they are. I meet someone at the last show and she said she would be more than happy to bring her Havanese over and I can be the birth mom and take care of all the puppy's .


Suzi, this sounds like you are getting into another wierd situation. What responsible breeder would put their pregnant bitch and new born litter into the hands of a complete novice? It takes a LOT of experience to raise puppies properly, even if nothing goes wrong... and something can go wrong really quickly. What would you do then?


----------



## Suzi

krandall said:


> Suzi, this sounds like you are getting into another wierd situation. What responsible breeder would put their pregnant bitch and new born litter into the hands of a complete novice? It takes a LOT of experience to raise puppies properly, even if nothing goes wrong... and something can go wrong really quickly. What would you do then?


 I am pretty sure she was just kidding. All I was saying that maybe that is a way for me to get this out of my system to have some litters of pups. I could be a whelping helper.


----------



## The Laughing Magpie

Oh Suzi, I just feel sick I have tried to give you the benefit of doubt, over and over again you just go on about wanting puppies, I am starting to believe that you are showing a lack of interest in your own dogs because they are growing up and no longer cute puppies. You just keep showing your whole lack of understanding about breeding, most dogs whelp their own puppies and if they are in trouble they need someone with experience. No good breeder is going to let you or any one except a vet or family member be around their newborns.


----------



## RikiDaisyDixie

*Just my story..."want" vs. reality*

Seven years ago, we had home visits with a couple of rescue dogs. The first one growled at our daughter and the second one chased the cats all over the house. And Alana had asthma. I didn't want the senior cats to urinate all over the house in fear of a dog, nor my daughter to be afraid. I also had not had a dog since my childhood, and I didn't know much about their behavior. I had never heard of fear-based aggression nor crate training. I had a lot to learn.

At the time I wanted a puppy for my only child. One that was hypoallergenic, good with cats, and free of aggression. Personality was very important, I wanted a dog who loved people. I did my research and learned about havanese. I read about the separation anxiety and required grooming. I figured I was home almost all of the time so this wouldn't be an issue. I also love to groom. On both, I had no idea what I was in for!

So here is this adorable little puppy, Riki, who pees everywhere and is as soft as silk but mats under the armpits...he runs like the wind but goes crazy if I go out for even a minute. So I did my research. I called the local havanese club and met these amazing people and they introduced me to Susan Nelson my mentor and trainer. For this I was very, very lucky. I also paid a trainer to come to my home to help me with Riki and his going nuts when I went out for even five minutes...she told me that I could either keep working on this, (which was painful), or get another dog. That these dogs, considering they are companion animals and also pack animals, prefer to not be left alone. They feel differently about things, as they are dogs. So I read a lot of books about how dogs think and how dogs react. I learned to read him, and understand his world.

So Riki learned obedience, rally, he even learned conformation. I learned how to be a pretend show judge. Riki was adorable and everyone asked me if I was going to show him. I didn't really even know what that was...but I learned. And I heard stories, and I went to shows. We even did a B-match for puppies and I was a nervous wreck even though I had been trained. The stress for me was just too much, and when Riki didn't "win" I was sad. I knew that this wasn't the life for me...and that my happy go lucky dude was more of a lover and show-off in agility than a dog for show. I watched my friends groom and show, I learned a lot and "wished" at times that I could show my dogs. To be honest I think it was an ego thing for me at least. I wanted the "best" dog for me. What I didn't realize at the time is that I don't have the money, the temperament, and the nerves of steel that this would have required. What I have is a lot of love.

So Riki got oohs and aahs everywhere he went as a puppy...what kind of dog is that. But this little monkey was lonely and after a year of the havanese list on yahoo, talking to friends, and more...I decided to get another puppy. And I knew then about testing, but I was determined to get a puppy right now. So I drove far into the night without telling my husband (my voice of reason) and got a puppy related to Riki. I also knew that she was very shy...and wanted a puppy with more zest to match Riki. But Alana was in love, so I made an emotional decision. Daisy loves Riki and people. She doesn't love other dogs or tricks as much as Riki. She is a love bucket, and still shy. I knew all of this when we got her...Alana was insistent.

Again, I tried a B match and Daisy shook the entire time. This was not for her at all. What would I have done if I had wanted to show...she was ours, and bonded to Riki like crazy. And as it turns out her coat isn't the glossy true havanese coat...and I would not have been able to breed her. Riki's nose is a bit too long, his coat cottony, and his tail a bit flag. Not a dog that would have enhanced the breed. This are chances everyone takes with a dog. Even the most perfect puppies sometimes disappoint as they come into the world with both temperament and looks.

So I had two dogs not show quality that I adored. So I enjoyed shows with my friends and cheered for them and cried for them. The competition was fierce, even among friends. And we did agility, and canine good citizen...and we practiced and went to classes...and parks...and parties...and met zillions of kids and did our good deeds teaching children how to behave with small dogs so that not one more should ever go to rescue.

And all these years the house training with Daisy has been an issue. I'm lucky I have a good husband who loves her as much as I do. Imagine if I were frustrated at her not being a "show" dog and then she pees all over even after I took her outside! She is my baby, and she is what she is.

And then the economy took a hit. We lost a big portion of our income, and what would I have done then? We even stopped feeding raw and making our own food...and then Sue passed away. My best havanese friend and mentor.

So I decided to do what Sue had asked of us in memory of her. I got into rescue...and showed the quilts. And then I started quilting. And then I met so many wonderful people in the rescue world. So I now know breeders, showing people, rescue people, agility people, rally people, obedience people, and just havanese lovers of their pets...whether they are champions, show dogs or regular dogs...all are loved, well-taken care of and adored. And if they aren't, HRI finds someone who will.

Yes I have puppy fever. I go to lots of shows and sometimes people bring their puppies in their motor homes. We are lucky to have had Eukanuba the last years here so I could see havanese from all over the country. The air is electric, the work incredible, and the tensions high. How does a judge choose perfection over perfection?

I have a friend who almost lost her beautiful havanese with a birth that went wrong, even with all the right experience and knowledge. She almost lost this beautiful dog...and I went through it with her.

So I treasure the stories of the folks who are good breeders with health testing. I joined lots of groups so I could learn and see all the puppy photos. And then learn about people who try to get puppies for the wrong reasons, for the breeders this is very hard...you are sending your "babies" off into the world and have to be very careful who you select to love and care for them.

So there are many snapshots into my world...and I tell this as I have been around for a while, and there is still much I don't know.

And as I said before I rescued Dixie, who is a champion. Her mom went to Westminster. And I didn't have to do it! Many people adopt retired champions and have their perfect show dog without having to show. And people ooh and aah wherever they go.

So I think what folks are saying here is that it is about knowledge, personal responsibility, and nerves of steel. We have seen so many people do things without thinking them through...and we have all read about puppies born with serious problems due to their breeder not testing and breeding for the betterment of the breed.

That is why you are getting strong emotional reactions. We say these things not to hurt, but to educate. Because we love this breed and only want the best for them.

My hat is off to our wonderful havanese breeders who can...their dedication, sweat, and financial support make our breed what it is...and we can hold them in honor and live vicariously through them!


----------



## pjewel

Linda, you moved me to tears.


----------



## Ninja

Suzi said:


> I payed a lot more money for Zoey because she is a full Papered AKC Dog. I am interested in showing and I have been sense I got Maddie. When I talked to her breeder she said she would take Zoey back and we could work something out as far as another dog or I can get a refund for the difference between a pet quality. I have decided not to return her. So I guess in answer to your question yes I bought Zoey with the intention of showing her.and possibly breeding her.We are keeping her because we love her. The only reason I would still show her is to find out if I enjoy showing or not other wise I would just keep spending to much to follow my desire to become a breeder.


OK I understand now. Glad to hear you realized you loved her too much to give away. I kinda feel like once you get a dog you have to be in it for the long run no matter what happens or how much you pay. I'm always hearing stories of people giving their pets away and I could never imagine doing that.


----------



## MaggieMay

So sorry to hear you were going through this, you made the right decision. My Maggie has an underbite which my breeder also says that none of the dogs in her line have. It doesn't bother me at all b/c she's my pet I never planned to show her, I find it an endearing quality now.  I do have to tell you that it has gotten worse as she's aged. Her adult teeth show it more pronounced than the baby teeth. Here's a pic of her now:


----------



## Suzi

MaggieMay said:


> So sorry to hear you were going through this, you made the right decision. My Maggie has an underbite which my breeder also says that none of the dogs in her line have. It doesn't bother me at all b/c she's my pet I never planned to show her, I find it an endearing quality now.  I do have to tell you that it has gotten worse as she's aged. Her adult teeth show it more pronounced than the baby teeth. Here's a pic of her now:


 I really can see the endearing quality some one else said it makes them look like they are smiling. I have read if I get her baby teeth pulled it will help her adult teeth com in better. She is going in next week to see.
She is a cutie.


----------



## rokipiki

Bravo Suzi! Zoey and Maddie are precious little souls and they are going to be faithful to you all their lives! Last night I went to my Bichon Club and listened for half an hour to Diana's story. She breeds bichon frisees and she is so sad now because people returned her 14 months old boy Moon, puppy from her last litter just because they realized that they want bigger dog. She said that he was so sad that he didn't want to move or eat for five days. Yesterday she brought him to the Club and for the first time he played with Roki and another frisee Carlos. She called me later and told me that he ate his bowl od food. She was crying! Whole evening was so emotional that I realized that I would never be a good breeder because I am too emotional. Suzi, maybe you are not meant to be a breeder, but only loving mom to your little girls!
Marina and Roki


----------



## pjewel

Aw Marina, that is such a sad story. I hope the little boy starts to enjoy his life again.


----------



## rokipiki

Yes, I hope too because he is so beautifuy and kind little dog! We are all looking for a good home for him! I the meantime we scheduled some doggie playing parties to cheer him up!


----------



## pjewel

I'll pray for him that the perfect home comes up. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## motherslittlehelper

Oh, Marina, that does just tug at your heart. I could never be a breeder either. I wouldn't be able to let them go, after having raised them. I hope your friend can find a good home for him.


----------



## Suzi

rokipiki said:


> Bravo Suzi! Zoey and Maddie are precious little souls and they are going to be faithful to you all their lives! Last night I went to my Bichon Club and listened for half an hour to Diana's story. She breeds bichon frisees and she is so sad now because people returned her 14 months old boy Moon, puppy from her last litter just because they realized that they want bigger dog. She said that he was so sad that he didn't want to move or eat for five days. Yesterday she brought him to the Club and for the first time he played with Roki and another frisee Carlos. She called me later and told me that he ate his bowl od food. She was crying! Whole evening was so emotional that I realized that I would never be a good breeder because I am too emotional. Suzi, maybe you are not meant to be a breeder, but only loving mom to your little girls!
> Marina and Roki


 That is sad I hope he finds a good home.
Yes Maddie and Zoey are my special girls and I love them very much.


----------



## holt24

ok ok you guys and all the stories..I am a mess lol Happy about your babies staying Suzi, hope Maddie isn't in pain. 

Hope the little boy cheers up and finds his forever LOVING home, couldn't imagine giving a dog back- it would have to be extreme like they attacked someone.


----------



## [email protected]

Please consider how losing her teeth will affect her ability to eat and her health. Not to 
mention her level of comfort. I would certainly question the ethical standards of any vet willing to even consider such a procedure. Wishing all the best for Zoey.


----------



## pjewel

[email protected] said:


> Please consider how losing her teeth will affect her ability to eat and her health. Not to
> mention her level of comfort. I would certainly question the ethical standards of any vet willing to even consider such a procedure. Wishing all the best for Zoey.


Ditto!


----------



## RikiDaisyDixie

*so I'm waiting to hear what happens?*

So how are her teeth doing?

And a note to everyone...brush, brush, brush. After having nine taken out of Dixie's mouth I am brushing my original two even more!


----------



## galaxie

RikiDaisyDixie said:


> Seven years ago, we had home visits with a couple of rescue dogs. The first one growled at our daughter and the second one chased the cats all over the house. And Alana had asthma. I didn't want the senior cats to urinate all over the house in fear of a dog, nor my daughter to be afraid. I also had not had a dog since my childhood, and I didn't know much about their behavior. I had never heard of fear-based aggression nor crate training. I had a lot to learn.
> 
> At the time I wanted a puppy for my only child. One that was hypoallergenic, good with cats, and free of aggression. Personality was very important, I wanted a dog who loved people. I did my research and learned about havanese. I read about the separation anxiety and required grooming. I figured I was home almost all of the time so this wouldn't be an issue. I also love to groom. On both, I had no idea what I was in for!
> 
> So here is this adorable little puppy, Riki, who pees everywhere and is as soft as silk but mats under the armpits...he runs like the wind but goes crazy if I go out for even a minute. So I did my research. I called the local havanese club and met these amazing people and they introduced me to Susan Nelson my mentor and trainer. For this I was very, very lucky. I also paid a trainer to come to my home to help me with Riki and his going nuts when I went out for even five minutes...she told me that I could either keep working on this, (which was painful), or get another dog. That these dogs, considering they are companion animals and also pack animals, prefer to not be left alone. They feel differently about things, as they are dogs. So I read a lot of books about how dogs think and how dogs react. I learned to read him, and understand his world.
> 
> So Riki learned obedience, rally, he even learned conformation. I learned how to be a pretend show judge. Riki was adorable and everyone asked me if I was going to show him. I didn't really even know what that was...but I learned. And I heard stories, and I went to shows. We even did a B-match for puppies and I was a nervous wreck even though I had been trained. The stress for me was just too much, and when Riki didn't "win" I was sad. I knew that this wasn't the life for me...and that my happy go lucky dude was more of a lover and show-off in agility than a dog for show. I watched my friends groom and show, I learned a lot and "wished" at times that I could show my dogs. To be honest I think it was an ego thing for me at least. I wanted the "best" dog for me. What I didn't realize at the time is that I don't have the money, the temperament, and the nerves of steel that this would have required. What I have is a lot of love.
> 
> So Riki got oohs and aahs everywhere he went as a puppy...what kind of dog is that. But this little monkey was lonely and after a year of the havanese list on yahoo, talking to friends, and more...I decided to get another puppy. And I knew then about testing, but I was determined to get a puppy right now. So I drove far into the night without telling my husband (my voice of reason) and got a puppy related to Riki. I also knew that she was very shy...and wanted a puppy with more zest to match Riki. But Alana was in love, so I made an emotional decision. Daisy loves Riki and people. She doesn't love other dogs or tricks as much as Riki. She is a love bucket, and still shy. I knew all of this when we got her...Alana was insistent.
> 
> Again, I tried a B match and Daisy shook the entire time. This was not for her at all. What would I have done if I had wanted to show...she was ours, and bonded to Riki like crazy. And as it turns out her coat isn't the glossy true havanese coat...and I would not have been able to breed her. Riki's nose is a bit too long, his coat cottony, and his tail a bit flag. Not a dog that would have enhanced the breed. This are chances everyone takes with a dog. Even the most perfect puppies sometimes disappoint as they come into the world with both temperament and looks.
> 
> So I had two dogs not show quality that I adored. So I enjoyed shows with my friends and cheered for them and cried for them. The competition was fierce, even among friends. And we did agility, and canine good citizen...and we practiced and went to classes...and parks...and parties...and met zillions of kids and did our good deeds teaching children how to behave with small dogs so that not one more should ever go to rescue.
> 
> And all these years the house training with Daisy has been an issue. I'm lucky I have a good husband who loves her as much as I do. Imagine if I were frustrated at her not being a "show" dog and then she pees all over even after I took her outside! She is my baby, and she is what she is.
> 
> And then the economy took a hit. We lost a big portion of our income, and what would I have done then? We even stopped feeding raw and making our own food...and then Sue passed away. My best havanese friend and mentor.
> 
> So I decided to do what Sue had asked of us in memory of her. I got into rescue...and showed the quilts. And then I started quilting. And then I met so many wonderful people in the rescue world. So I now know breeders, showing people, rescue people, agility people, rally people, obedience people, and just havanese lovers of their pets...whether they are champions, show dogs or regular dogs...all are loved, well-taken care of and adored. And if they aren't, HRI finds someone who will.
> 
> Yes I have puppy fever. I go to lots of shows and sometimes people bring their puppies in their motor homes. We are lucky to have had Eukanuba the last years here so I could see havanese from all over the country. The air is electric, the work incredible, and the tensions high. How does a judge choose perfection over perfection?
> 
> I have a friend who almost lost her beautiful havanese with a birth that went wrong, even with all the right experience and knowledge. She almost lost this beautiful dog...and I went through it with her.
> 
> So I treasure the stories of the folks who are good breeders with health testing. I joined lots of groups so I could learn and see all the puppy photos. And then learn about people who try to get puppies for the wrong reasons, for the breeders this is very hard...you are sending your "babies" off into the world and have to be very careful who you select to love and care for them.
> 
> So there are many snapshots into my world...and I tell this as I have been around for a while, and there is still much I don't know.
> 
> And as I said before I rescued Dixie, who is a champion. Her mom went to Westminster. And I didn't have to do it! Many people adopt retired champions and have their perfect show dog without having to show. And people ooh and aah wherever they go.
> 
> So I think what folks are saying here is that it is about knowledge, personal responsibility, and nerves of steel. We have seen so many people do things without thinking them through...and we have all read about puppies born with serious problems due to their breeder not testing and breeding for the betterment of the breed.
> 
> That is why you are getting strong emotional reactions. We say these things not to hurt, but to educate. Because we love this breed and only want the best for them.
> 
> My hat is off to our wonderful havanese breeders who can...their dedication, sweat, and financial support make our breed what it is...and we can hold them in honor and live vicariously through them!


Linda, I have tears in my eyes. This is beautifully written and exactly why so many of us are so incredibly passionate about this wonderful breed!


----------



## HavaneseSoon

Thank you Linda for your inspirational post. You are a wealth of knowledge and I am so very glad you are here to educate. :whoo:


----------



## Missy

Suzi, I just want to commend you-- you have taken a lot of heat on this forum, but you seem to take what you need, learn from it, make the right decision, and let the rest roll off your back. I am glad you are keeping Zoey. she is a doll and she and maddie would be very sad to lose each other. 

How is Maddie and her hair loss?


----------



## Suzi

Missy said:


> Suzi, I just want to commend you-- you have taken a lot of heat on this forum, but you seem to take what you need, learn from it, make the right decision, and let the rest roll off your back. I am glad you are keeping Zoey. she is a doll and she and maddie would be very sad to lose each other.
> 
> How is Maddie and her hair loss?


 Thank you Missy,
Their is a lot of heat I don't understand . You know the old saying you can't please them all. Any way I have my hands full training two pups . 
Maddie has not lost any more hair although it does not grow very fast either this is a picture of her . the hair on her chest is as much as it has grown. Most of the loss was on her hind quarter and back legs . I trimed up her face


----------



## West End Girl

This is a very controversial thread and while the OP is free to make their own decision, I feel that once a thread is started and made public, prepare yourself for all opinions- positive, negative, and neutral. 

I'm not an expert on showing Havanese dogs in championships, but I do know pursuit of perfection in ANY breed of animal is unrealistic and perhaps drives many owners to consider things they normally wouldn't.....all due to pursuit of perfection in the breed. 

Sad really, because the only one that suffers is the animal.....whose soul purpose in life is to be loved really.


----------

