# Question for Quilters & crafty people.



## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I would like to buy a sewing machine. I need advice on what to get. I wouldn't mind doing embroidery too but don't know the learning curve. 

I have never sewn, I am a quick learner and I want to participate in these dang quilts!!!!!!!!!!!! I also don't want a cheap one. 

Any suggestions?


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Head to quilt shops, good fabric shops and sewing machine shops, trying out their machines. They always let you work with them to try them out. They are expensive enough that you really want to try them out; they should be able to help you figure out what you want, too. Of course they will each push their own brands, but don't let them nail you down before you've tried several.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

By the way, Melissa, I'll be moving to Twin when I get my house sold. Hope to be able to meet you sometime!


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Let me know when you move! We will get together. Im wanting to buy land in Swan Valley. 

So if I go to these stores, I will not know HOW to try them out? I wouldnt know a good one from a bad one? I might end up breaking it. hehe


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

The machines in the stores that sell them have sales people that will sit down with you, "selling" the machine to you by showing you and then letting you try them out. I'd never buy one of the good machines without actually trying them. That way you'll have a good base for comparison on what you like and an idea about price ranges. Then you can gather opinions and ratings for the ones you favor.

I'll let you know when I move. I just listed my house last week and haven't had a single call on it yet. 

I don't know where Swan Valley is--heading to Google now.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Okay, I didn't know the area by that name. It is BEAUTIFUL there! You've a lucky gal if you get a place there!


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I purchased a Viking about 7 years ago after giving up on the Singer machines--the old ones were the best, but no more. The Viking is a really good sewing machine, I use it for fashion sewing an piece work on quilts. I have not done machine quilting though. I later bought a Baby Lock embrodiery machine which I admit that I don't really use. It too is a good machine for fashion sewing, but is not as heavy duty as the Viking. Phaff also make a really good one. If your are serious about learning to sew invest in a good machine, it will last a lifetime.


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

I went to school for fashion and the first machine I bought was a Brother & I hated it. I took it back to the store shortly after. When I came home on break my mother took me to a store that only specializes in sewing machines. I got a Janome as they are known for their quality & I really love it. Pretty user friendly too! Good when you're starting out. My mom liked mine so much she got the same one. Also, the store that we bought it from offered unlimited lessons. My best friend got hers from Joann's and there was a limit on the number of free lessons but they always have a weekly 20% coupon in their weekly ad. They also offer quilting classes.


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## PepperToast (Oct 27, 2008)

Check out http://sewing.patternreview.com/SewingMachine/

It has reviews of sewing machines with price ranges. Or read the threads. It is FULL of people asking about which machine to buy. Embroidery does have a learning curve and is expensive to start up. People usually end up loving it or not being so thrilled by it. If you are thinking of starting with this new hobby, I HIGHLY recommend you join sewing.patternreview.com it is full of helpful people and great advice (much like this forum!)


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Welcome to the sewing world Melissa. Julie did quite a bit of research before she bought her new Baby Lock so she will probably have the latest. Just don’t buy a machine that is too complicated for you to start with. 

Before you buy an expensive machine take some sewing lessons, go to the quilt/fabric/sewing machine stores that offer classes or get a machine that has a return policy. We live in a small town East of Atlanta there is only one store with set up machines, they just sell and repair machines, their sewing machines start at the $1,000 mark and go up. Our Joann’s and quilt shop do not have set up machines. So you may need to travel according to your area.

I still own some pretty expensive machines for their day, all were totally driving me crazy when I made my blocks, because that is about all I do with a sewing machine now. On a whim I bought an inexpensive Brother SE 350 ($379) and I am totally back to enjoying sewing. I love this machine, it is a heavy as these go and I can not say enough good things about it. I was shocked to feel the way I do about this machine.

Some people will totally knock a brand name not knowing many of the machines today are made by just a few companies with different names on them. As you know load of research and opinions are on the web…….

Happy Sewing……….


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Because everyone enjoys different things and different features and are after different things and price ranges and all of that......it is absolutely an individual pursuit.

Like Sandi and PepperToast say,I'd recommend you try them out and do alot of research. I spent almost the last year doing research and trying to find just the perfect machine for me and in my price range.(Price range was the hard part) as I tend to be one of those people with champayne taste and a beer pocketbook.

If money is not the real issue and you want a quality machine this is what I liked:

Embroidery machines:
BabyLock Ellisimo
Babylock Elegante 2
Viking Designer Diamond
Bernina 830
Janome Memory Craft 11000

(these are all high end-top of the line machines)

For just sewing:
Babylock Espire
Viking Sapphire 875 Q (be careful where this is made--you want the one that is made in Sweden--not China as they moved production on this model to China and the reviews are horrible with the China made machines)
Bernina Artista 
Bernina Aurora

Go to the websites Melissa and click on different models as they all have different features. Do not pay for features you will not use or need.

I think if you are just starting it might be to your advantage to get a lower end model then what I posted,and sew awhile with them. You can always trade in and trade up to the fancier machines as you become more acquanited with sewing and then you'll have a better feel for what you are wanting.

A machine under 500.00 can sew just as good as a machine in the 10,000.00 range. It is skill that turns out a great project,not the machine.

For embroidery however--I'd listen carefully to the salesperson...and many salespersons.Low end embroidery machines can be a pain in the arsh I am told,and so with that...it's a risk and if you want to do serious embroidery work,I would get a nice at least "middle range" machine myself. If you are just wanting to get your feet wet and try,tell them that. They will make recommendations.

In my area going to a store and trying a machine out is not an option.I bought sight unseen (in person)but knew exactly what I wanted and was getting.

Explore many companies Melissa----just because I wouldn't recommend a company or manufacturer myself,doesn't mean it isn't a great machine for you. Think of it as cars. There are Ford people,Chevy people,Cadillac,Mercedes etc.

Good luck with your search and I hope you find the perfect machine for you.:thumb:


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## j.j.'s mom (Aug 16, 2009)

the sewing machine choice will depend on what you actually end up doing..
if you are doing just basic quilt piecing, you won't need a machine with alot of whistles and bells. just a really good straight stitch and a quarter inch foot. if you do clothing construction, home dec, or embroidery, then you would want something more. when i returned to sewing, i started with a good basic electronic machine. as time went on, i found new things to do. now i also have a designer 1 (embroidery) and a baby lock serger in my "stable". the best piece of advice already given here is to go to the sewing machine stores. they often have good deals on trade ins which is great for a starter machine. if you broaden your search too much at this point, your head will explode with all the options. embroidery is alot of fun and you can impress folks with the gifts you can make for them.. it can get addictive and pricey.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Thanks guys!!!!!!! Maybe I will just start with sewing and then do the embroidery later. 

The embroider machines ya'll mentioned, do they do normal sewing also? That might be a stupid question.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Melissa, not a dumb question at all, some of the machines do both, some just sew or just embroidery. Mine has the embroidery attachment, but I haven’t tried it yet.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Melissa Miller said:


> The embroider machines ya'll mentioned, do they do normal sewing also?.


The ones I mentioned do both sewing and embroidery. They have machines that just sew,most that embroidery,do both(sew and embroider)....however there are specialized machines that just embroider. These I would not say are "common" though.

Alot of the high end embroidery machines you almost need a seperate computer for,for downloading images into/editing etc.The people I know that have them have seperate computers just for there machines.It is endless what these high end embroidery machines can do. They have their own computer software,color matching and editing. This is an expensive hobby(the embroidery) but also alot of fun for those that can afford it.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

YAY! I Love to see people taking up the COOLEST hobby in the whole world (seeing as how you can make skirts that nobody else has! hehe) among other things (like quilting)

But to answer your question, I have a Viking Designer SE and I LOVE IT. Viking has mid-high range machines that sew and embroider, the best thing you can do is find a dealer and go take them on a test run. Most retail sewing stores offer free lessons, too...and show you the basics to get you going


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Do these look like they are any good? I can't afford yours Kara! I would like to buy a used machine under 1k.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Husqvarna-Vikin...emQQptZBI_Sewing_Machines?hash=item1c0fb3ad78

http://cgi.ebay.com/Husqvarna-Viking-Designer-1-Embroidery-Sewing-Machine_W0QQitemZ330398144036QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Sewing_Machines?hash=item4ced439624

http://cgi.ebay.com/Husqvarna-1-Vik...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b97ebc16


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

The Designer 1 is a good machine, I haven't heard anything bad about it and have a few friends on my sewing forum that love theirs. That's really a good starter machine, especially if you can swing a good deal on ebay that's legit.

The ones listed look nice and I see the seller has a great feedback, The good thing about the computerized machines are that they are nice for people learning to sew, it will practically tell you what to do (what foot to use, etc) you pick the fabric and stitch and it will tell you what to use, which is really nice in that it saves so much time figuring it out on your own through books or the internet. lol

If you scroll down about midway, there are several Designer 1 reviews:

http://sewing.patternreview.com/SewingMachine/Viking


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Oh and if for some reason it doesn't let you read them w/o a password, I"ll send you mine on PM, I hate that about that site,


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Melissa, I was in the same situation this past Fall. I had never sewn anything at all and decided I wanted a sewing machine(mainly to do this quilt square!!) I did a ton of research and went to all the different sewing machine stores to try all the different brands out. I really recommend this before buying because you get to try them out(they show you how) and see what feels right to YOU. After trying just about every brand out( including Viking, Baby lock, Bernina, and a few others, I really wanted a Bernina 440, but I couldn't really justify the cost for the amount of sewing I do.The one I wanted was over $2000.00. I settled on a Brother Project Runway (this is not the Brothers that you can buy at Walmart and places like that- they are only sold at sewing machine stores) I think it was around $500 or $600. It was very highly rated by Consumer reports last year. I figured it was small and simple enough for me as a new user and if I really decided to get into lots of sewing I would buy my Bernina later. (Bernina is an investment with not only the machine but also the Feet are very expensive!!). I've been happy with my choice- I had a slight problem with it when I went to sew my quilt square, but I think it was due to the fact that I broke a needle in it last time I used it(my fault for not putting a new sharp needle in it when I was sewing layers on a Halloween costume) and it caused the bobbin case to move out of position or maybe I put it back in wrong when I pulled the broken needle out!! Good luck and let us know what you get. If you buy used make sure you get a manual- I refer to mine all the time!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Melissa Miller said:


> Do these look like they are any good? I can't afford yours Kara! I would like to buy a used machine under 1k.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Husqvarna-Vikin...emQQptZBI_Sewing_Machines?hash=item1c0fb3ad78
> 
> ...


Ebay is a good place to look Melissa--but be very careful about purchasing there. Most people have pretty good luck....but not me. I bought a brand new Viking Sapphire 875Q from a guy on there who took my money and ran. That son of a b--it broke my heart--and well--long story--but I did get my money back (thanks to Discover card and paypal). Don't buy unless you go through paypal....it's really the only protection you have. (This guy cancelled his membership after taking my money).


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## Wildflower (Dec 6, 2009)

Julie said:


> I think if you are just starting it might be to your advantage to get a lower end model then what I posted,and sew awhile with them. You can always trade in and trade up to the fancier machines as you become more acquanited with sewing and then you'll have a better feel for what you are wanting.
> 
> A machine under 500.00 can sew just as good as a machine in the 10,000.00 range. It is skill that turns out a great project,not the machine.


I thought this (and other similar advice) was perfect. I bought a (cheap!) Singer sewing machine from Sams Club back in the late 80's without knowing what I was buying. (I was using my mother's old green Singer from 1960 to make a few crafts but wanted a new machine.) I basically taught myself to sew on that new Singer! I've never really done 'major' sewing but love piecing quilts and added a couple of foot attachments over the years. (Years after I bought that machine, I was told it was a very good one when I first brought it in for servicing.)

About 10 years ago, I bought a more expensive machine I thought I 'needed.' I tried to learn that machine, but ended up going back to my Singer and still use it to this day. For me, I basically sew straight lines and occasionally I will machine quilt with it and it's just what I want. My new machine has been sitting in the closet for years as it was more complicated than I cared to learn. 

How exciting for you!

ETA: The one I bought 10 years ago is a Babylock Espire (pretty sure that's right). I stated I didn't want to learn it but it was supposed to be a great one. I was just too lazy and didn't want to devote my time to it. Maybe I'll get it out of the closet...


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Julie said:


> Ebay is a good place to look Melissa--but be very careful about purchasing there. Most people have pretty good luck....but not me. I bought a brand new Viking Sapphire 875Q from a guy on there who took my money and ran. That son of a b--it broke my heart--and well--long story--but I did get my money back (thanks to Discover card and paypal). Don't buy unless you go through paypal....it's really the only protection you have. (This guy cancelled his membership after taking my money).


Superior advice!!! Many of the Ebay and Craigslist are scams or broken items. My DH and friends do quite a bit of buying and selling of jukeboxes, old motorcycles and parts, etc. Many times the seller is not at all what they seem. Paypal does offer the buyer protection and so does major credit cards,


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I found a sewing store close by that sells Baby Locks and Berninas, Ill go try them out. 
I know I want one that does embroidery. But I asked about the Baby Lock Elegante that Julie so nicely ( evil girl, evil girl) recommended and its 12k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy smokes Batman. 

I like the little color displays. Im spoiled.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

No wait, it was 8k. The Bernina is 12k. As IF IT MATTERS hahaha. Im definitely going to be looking for some used ones.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I have to step in again. I have sewed all my life and consider myself an expert in fashion sewing and tailoring. Quilt piecing is just straight sewing and easy; but embroidery is a whole new learning curve. I have all the toys one could have. But, They have been purchased over a lifetime. If you don't know how to sew, then you don't need to start with an embroidery machine. Get a good used straight sewing machine (zig-zag of course). You can probably buy one for less than $200. Learn the basics of straight sewing and zig-zag. Then see if you even like it. It is hard to keep an embroidery machine in adjustment, there are different needles and threads you have to use, etc. I invested a great deal of money in an embroidery machine a few years back and haven't used it enough to pay for setting it up. Some of the old singer machines can be found in thrift shops or "antique" shops for nearly nothing. They are easy to adjust and great for quilting. In fact there is a small singer that is in nearly all the "antique shops" that are in great demand just for this purpose. They sell for 300-400 in working condition. Also check estate sales. A good sewing machine can be picked up for $50 there. Think your grandmother or mothers machine. The old singers or brother machines were good work horse machines and didn't need any maintenance except for a good oiling and lint cleaning out. 

Advertize in the classified or craigslist also. Once you get into sewing and feel confident, go for the electonic ones and get a good one then.

Piece work is fun and I just love putting pieces parts together, it is addictive I admit.


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## Wildflower (Dec 6, 2009)

ETA: Never mind! I read something wrong. Silly me.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Melissa Miller said:


> I found a sewing store close by that sells Baby Locks and Berninas, Ill go try them out.
> I know I want one that does embroidery. But I asked about the Baby Lock Elegante that Julie so nicely ( evil girl, evil girl) recommended and its 12k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy smokes Batman.
> 
> I like the little color displays. Im spoiled.


Great ideas to look at local shops, if you find a good one without the embroidery consider it.  You can always buy that separately or later once you get the neck of it. I too have sewn for many, many years. At one time I even made formal gowns, riding habits, chaps etc. and never had anything other than a few stitch Singer. Just remember the embroidery attachment only does preprogrammed designs on a disk, unless you buy the program, not cheap, to create your own designs. That is what I would want to do. The baskets, little flowers and such do not appeal to me at all.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

But the thing is... I want to do more embroidering than anything else. Yes, I am also going to learn to quilt, but if I KNOW I want to do embroidering from the get-go, then shouldn't I get that machine? It will do a lot for my business. 

I watched the woman to do it this afternoon, and with the electronic machine, I think I can get the hang of it fast. I saw a babylock Esante for 2900 or an Espire ( ?) for 1700.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Melissa Miller said:


> But the thing is... I want to do more embroidering than anything else. Yes, I am also going to learn to quilt, but if I KNOW I want to do embroidering from the get-go, then shouldn't I get that machine? It will do a lot for my business. /QUOTE]
> 
> Yes just make sure the stores know that is what you mainly want to do and get a machine that will let you design your own creations. I'll talk to one of my trainers that got into making dog designed embroidery that she sells at the show and on line. I'll ask what kind of machine she has.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I need to research what software I would need. Im sure thats going to be pricey. Because I definitely want to do my own designs.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

SMARTY said:


> Melissa Miller said:
> 
> 
> > I'll talk to one of my trainers that got into making dog designed embroidery that she sells at the show and on line. I'll ask what kind of machine she has.
> ...


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Melissa---I have to laugh here because I TOLD YOU I HAD champayne taste girl! Beer pocket book-champayne taste! :wink:

Those were machines that I LOVED--THEY JUST HAPPENED TO BE TOP OF THE LINE. 

The Bernina 830 is 12000.00 (I can save you some time here-cause unfortunately I know! The software to do your own designs is around 1200.00-1500.00)
The Viking Designer Diamond is about 10,000.00 and software to do YOUR original artwork is about 1500.00
The Elegante 2 (the one I wanted) (not top of the line as that one is the Ellismo) but that Elegante 2 was about 6000.00-8000.00 (she priced me both Ellismo and Elegante2--so I do not remember that exactly)....she said software was available and if I bought it she would help me get it for free.

I ONLY WANTED an embroidery machine that would do my own original artwork(nothing that everyone else can do). I never got into the Elegante or Ellsimo as far as specifics about original artwork because honestly----I couldn't of bought either even at the half the quoted price.

Before you buy a Esante--ask the lady about YOUR ORIGINAL ARTWORK.....I don't remember that one having the capabilities...but I'm not saying yes or no...I didn't like it myself so that machine was out for me personally.

If what you really are after is a good quality embroidery machine and that is primarily what you want to do-----just know in advance it's an expensive hobby Melissa. The machine is gonna cost you some serious money (one that will do what I think we were/are both after) and then stabilizers,threads,a computer to design on etc. I'd love to do it and maybe I'll live long enough to get one myself.....cause I really really want to--but in the meantime...I sure love sewing....sewing with my big baby L! :thumb:

By the way------when I hit the lottery-----I'm getting the Bernina 830! That's my dream machine!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

That Bernina you are talking about is amazing!!! I haven't driven one, but wow.

I think with me I bought the Designer SE because I wanted to learn embroidery too. They gave me the software as part of the deal, I didn't have to buy it. Of course, My husband is king of haggling prices and talking salesman into giving away things they normally wouldn't..lol amazing. I could've never pulled that off unless I was in a bikini pouring chocolate on myself and even then, the salesman might've gagged.. ound: 

The nice thing about the high end machines is that they are good if you are doing a variety of sewing and embroidery, they do so much FOR you that saves you time and headache,.

Years ago, I bought a cheap Singer (after it was sold from the original Singer family) for, ehh, maybe $200. I was SOOO frustrated with the tension and the bobbin and I could not adjust it to stitch right and I was overwhelmed with it and it sat in my closet for a few years until I decided I wanted to sew and bought a Brother for about $600, MAN..what a difference, I was actually sewing without banging my head against the wall and crying out of frustration! lol

Ebay, I think its safe if you use Paypal and even double back that up with a credit card, Amex always sides with the buyer, Visa and MC, ehh..hit or miss. But Paypal is really good about refunding your money if you aren't happy and are a regular customer there especially.

I think its fun shopping for a sewing machine! Im living vicariously here. 

My husband says if I buy one more machine he's divorcing me! lol ound:

Did I mention, I have 6 machines? ound: Not all 'sewing', some serging, coverstitch, overlock...ehh.....yeah. Its kind of one of my favorite things to do. lol


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

I have a Janome that my mom bought me when I was a teenager...I don't even know what model it is, and it's been in a case, unused, for years. I used my mom's New Home (?) on my quilt square, and my parents gave Piper a Janome for Christmas. Again, no idea what model, but probably pretty basic since Piper's only 8 and has no idea how to sew. I'd be interested to see if mine still works after all these years. I guess I'd have to oil it up first, huh? Or bring it in for a "tune-up." Maybe I can start making clothes to fit Piper's American Girl dolls.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Expensive Hobby? Moi? I would never... 

I bought my first camera, top of the line Nikon, then went Medium Format, then went digital a year later. Talk about blowing money. Now I have a studio.

And the Havs.... 4k later and I have a dog forum.. haha 

I need to learn moderation. Julie, she said you could upload your own design, if you had the software. You just couldn't modify the design on the machine.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

On that Esante Melissa? Is there much difference in price between that Esante and the Elegante 2? The wind was quickly out of my sails on the embroidery machines,but I sure like the way that Elegante2 read and looked on line. Is that a good looking thing or what?


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

trueblue said:


> I have a Janome that my mom bought me when I was a teenager...I don't even know what model it is, and it's been in a case, unused, for years. I used my mom's New Home (?) on my quilt square, and my parents gave Piper a Janome for Christmas. Again, no idea what model, but probably pretty basic since Piper's only 8 and has no idea how to sew. I'd be interested to see if mine still works after all these years. I guess I'd have to oil it up first, huh? Or bring it in for a "tune-up." Maybe I can start making clothes to fit Piper's American Girl dolls.


My Mom has a friend who has a Janome and she just loves hers! I had looked at those quite a bit too before I bought my BL Espire....I loved the Memory Craft 11000 and the 6600 model too....(not looks--but features)..I just couldn't find a dealer close to me.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Melissa Miller said:


> Julie, she said you could upload your own design, if you had the software. You just couldn't modify the design on the machine.


:bolt: HOLD IT---------
I reread this just now and hold up a minute-Melissa.....you will want to modify your designs on the machine,won't you? I would think you'd want that capability because you may want to decrease size,enlarge,take something in and out etc. I think you need that.......


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I think I have sewing machine envy. Here I am, trading my (low end) Brother purchase for my Ruby, who (as Julie suggested) should have been named Stitches. The rest of you are talking about machines whose cost would rival a bathroom remodal (which I also need). Ahhhh, someday.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I had to turn my 'hobby' into a business to take them off all my taxes, lol...

I have a Janome Coverstitch pro and it runs really nicely, it ran about $4-500 new so I bet the higher end ones are really nice, the people that I know that use Janomes are loyal and keep using them...but it hard to find a dealer! I live in a populated area and still had to drive 1.5 hours for that dealer, I didn't even get a chance to play on the fancy ones


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## j.j.'s mom (Aug 16, 2009)

if you are considering machine embroidery, you may want to look into embird
for software. check out the secret's of embroidery website.
they have tutorials, free projects and designs.
http://www.secretsof.com/content/1798
embird is very popular. and you can customize as to how much of an embroidery program you want.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> the people that I know that use Janomes are loyal and keep using them...but it hard to find a dealer! I live in a populated area and still had to drive 1.5 hours for that dealer, I didn't even get a chance to play on the fancy ones


This is the problems I had as well. Not with just that manufacturer,but others as well. Being rather rural---it makes it hard. If I buy a high dollar machine I don't want to have to ship it off someplace for service or drive 2 hours one way either for something as simple as a routine cleaning or worse---a repair.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Oh yes! I can see servicing and repairs being really inconvenient  I've had to have my babylock cleaned 3 X now (I put it through industrial level serging!) and can't imagine shipping it off for that, that'd suck worrying about it.


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