# Gross Habit



## luv2bmomof4 (Feb 29, 2012)

Not sure to post this here or in the potty area. Ok here it goes. Bella is almost 15 weeks old and has been doing great on potty training but since we got her at 8 weeks I noticed that she has been trying to turn around and drink her pee right after she goes the only way I try to stop that is to stand right next to her when she goes and if she tries to lick it tell her no and pick her up then bring her back in the house. That was working or at least so I thought. Now recently I have noticed that she is wetting her bed at night, she is crated at night and was doing good at first. As soon as I hear her, I jump up and take her out but sometimes before I get to her I notice that she had already peed and is not fresh its like maybe it leaked and she licked it up. So I thought ok maybe, just maybe I didn't hear her whine to go out so I have been picking up her water bowl at about 8pm she goes for her last potty around 10 to 1030pm then usually wakes at 7am I purposely got up at 5 to wake her up to go and low and behold she peed in her kennel on her blanket and didn't even care she is not waking up to go. I didn't think dogs liked to sleep where they pee, do you think she is purposely peeing to lick it up or do some dogs just sometimes wet the bed. I heard large breeds can do that in their deep sleep after they are fixed can this be possible for her to. Its only at night not during naps. I have never scolded her when she had an accident in the house cause if she did it was not her fault but mine for not paying attention to her so I don't think she is trying to hide it, should I not crate her at night I do not think she is 100% potty trained yet, she does love her crate she knows that is where she sleeps at night, during the day I leave it open so she can go in there if she wants to without closing the door and she will nap in there as well. Im afraid to put her in there without the blanket cause at least that is soaking up the urine and she can't lick it all up, either way its gross, any suggestions would help. Thank you. She sees her vet in a few weeks and I will talk to him again but in the meantime im hoping to get some advise. Thank you,


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

A couple of questions - how old is Bella now, and how long have you had her?

Fri, 2 Mar 2012 18:44:23 (PST)


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## luv2bmomof4 (Feb 29, 2012)

Bella is almost 15 weeks old we got her when she was just over 8weeks, and actually 6 weeks ago today she just started with the peeing in the crate over the last 2 to 2 1/2weeks ago. Se doesn't do it every night.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

Never heard of the pee licking issue, only poop eating (which Mig shamefully occasionally partakes in). In my opinion there is nothing wrong with crating her all night. Is her crate too large? Sometimes it can be large enough for her to pee in a corner of it, then go to her sleeping area. They usually give you a divider to compensate until she grows because dogs do not like to sleep where they relieve themselves. At 15 weeks she should be able to hold it from 10pm until 7am, but she is still pretty young and learning the ropes. I would put her in the crate with a blanket (even if it's a freshly washed different one every night), let her sleep until 7 and take her out immediately and praise her like crazy. I think over time she'll forgo peeing in her crate. It can take a while sometimes until they fully catch on. The only other thing I think worth mentioning is maybe ruling out a urinary tract infection-probably not-but just a thought. Potty training can be exhausting, that's for sure.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

luv2bmomof4 said:


> Bella is almost 15 weeks old we got her when she was just over 8weeks, and actually 6 weeks ago today she just started with the peeing in the crate over the last 2 to 2 1/2weeks ago. Se doesn't do it every night.


They can and do go backwards in their training...good that she doesn't do it every night.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

Okay, so Bella is still VERY young. Do you keep a journal, or kind of daily diary? Doing that can be a fabulous help in detecting various stresses, and also, even as information to lean on when you go to the vet. I kept some kinds of journals for most of my dogs, most intensively, with my diabetic Australian Terrier Kumbi (who died of cancer, about 1.5 years ago).

Do you have a fairly regular dailiy routine with Bella? If you do, that's always a big advantage for the dog.

Dogs can be "strange" about stuff like eating their poop - here, licking the pee. 

It's not unusual for small dogs in particular, to take quite a while to house-train. Taking Bella out every couple of hours should help. You probably know all the usual suggested house-training methods.

It IS true that house-training can be very tiring for us humans. I had to house-train Camellia, though she was already 3.5 YEARS old when she became my dog. The stresses she faced with change of home, and the fact that she was suffering from trauma when she became my dog, was probably what caused a need to re-train her. It took me four months to do it.

So I wouldn't be WORRIED about it; just keep working on it.

Fri, 2 Mar 2012 19:35:56 (PST)


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## luv2bmomof4 (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi Pixiesmom, thank you for your reply. Her crate is not too big for her but big enough for her to sleep and stretch her legs out while lying down. When she pees she pees right on the blanket like on the part she lying on. Maybe she needs more time, as for praises she gets a whole lot when she wakes up with a clean blanket.lol she looks at me like I'm crazy but hey thats one less blanket I have to wash...well more time and lots more praises hopefully this stage will pass.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

It will pass, just be consistent and she'll catch on. My dogs liked little treats when they pottied, like a green bean or cheerio. Just make it absolutely fabulous for her when she does it correctly.


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## luv2bmomof4 (Feb 29, 2012)

Thank you Carolwcamelo, I will start journaling her days and evenings to see if their are any stresses, as for her routine, yes we are on a regular routine with the kids going to school we are up everyday at 7am. I am so sorry to hear of the passing of your Kumbi. That must have been hard.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

how often is she going pee?? could it be an infection or something or solely a housebreaking issue??


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## luv2bmomof4 (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi Tilliesmom-During the day she goes every few hours depending on how hard she is playing. I think she is only peeing once in her crate only because the blankets are not saturated with urine. Just a small spot, if she doesn't wet the bed then in the morning when I take her out she seems like she she is peeing for a long time. The mornings when the bed is wet its a short pee. Maybe shes just adapted to my house 2 out of 4 of my boys were bed wetters...lol


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

My vote is that the bladder is leaking at night. I have had this happen with an old dog and one that had just been spayed. Of course an infection can also cause it. I would have her checked out.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Just my experience with Jack. 

He was a slow learner is cleaning up his pp area. So, what I have learned to make it easier is........Clip the hairs around the pp area, so pee does not have to sit on the hairs (which causes urine odors)...and make sure the pp wick is not real long and.....limit the water at night...I would think no water after 7pm. 

Dont' do a lot of hard playing after 7pm because he may want some water. Several potty breaks before 11pm and hopefully he will be urine free in the morning.

And.....your pup is very young and it will take LOTS of love......patience, and most of all time for your Hav to mature.


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## luv2bmomof4 (Feb 29, 2012)

Thank you for all the replies, I will definately be having her checked out at her vet for the leakage. I woke this morning again to a wet blanket but this time she was curled up at one end of the crate and her blanket pushed to the other with urine on the edge. She was still asleep when I got up. The urine was not dry like she did it in the night, maybe like it was within the last hour or 2. As for her private area I trimmed those some but maybe its not short enough I have to take her for a cut already on Wednesday do to my sons asthma (that's a whole other story) so she should be nice and trimmed in that area pretty good.


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## luv2bmomof4 (Feb 29, 2012)

So to update on this post..Bella went to see her vet on Friday for her check up and shots. She is still peeing in her kennel.grrr.., good news is no UTI its just her being a booger, more training for her I guess. Vets suggestion take out her blanket and let her lay on her pee she will get the hint, I just hate the fact that she will probably drink her pee..so I took the blanket out and she does not want to go in the kennel to sleep, she would rather sleep in the kitchen where her other bed is. We let her put the gates up and let her. We woke up to no pee in the kitchen and no where that it looks as if she went and drank it. So am I making a mistake by allowing her to sleep in the kitchen and not her crate at night? She still goes in her crate through out the day to nap if she wants to. Tonight will be her second night in the kitchen if I let her. On a positive note the vet said that she looked great and was perfect. She weighs a whopping 7lbs 10 oz for only being 16 weeks but he said that she is not over weight. She still has a waist line and no sagging tummy...wish I could say the same for me..hahaha. This time around she did not have a fit to have her temp checked or given her shots she stayed perfectly still and did great. My Bella is getting so big so fast she is doing great on her potty training now if I can only get the bed wetting under control life would be great.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

luv2bmomof4 said:


> So to update on this post..Bella went to see her vet on Friday for her check up and shots. She is still peeing in her kennel.grrr.., good news is no UTI its just her being a booger, more training for her I guess. Vets suggestion take out her blanket and let her lay on her pee she will get the hint, I just hate the fact that she will probably drink her pee..so I took the blanket out and she does not want to go in the kennel to sleep, she would rather sleep in the kitchen where her other bed is. We let her put the gates up and let her. We woke up to no pee in the kitchen and no where that it looks as if she went and drank it. So am I making a mistake by allowing her to sleep in the kitchen and not her crate at night? She still goes in her crate through out the day to nap if she wants to. Tonight will be her second night in the kitchen if I let her. On a positive note the vet said that she looked great and was perfect. She weighs a whopping 7lbs 10 oz for only being 16 weeks but he said that she is not over weight. She still has a waist line and no sagging tummy...wish I could say the same for me..hahaha. This time around she did not have a fit to have her temp checked or given her shots she stayed perfectly still and did great. My Bella is getting so big so fast she is doing great on her potty training now if I can only get the bed wetting under control life would be great.


I don't know what the answer is but I _very _vehemently disagree with letting her sit/lay in her own pee. I think that would have the opposite effect. Puppy mill dogs that sit in their crates in their own pee and poop for the first part of their lives are MUCH harder to potty train, as they grodw to think that that is 'normal'.

I think that if she is doing well in the kitchen overnight, then that might be the way to go. I left Cey in the kitchen every night with a pee pad, his crate open, and toys and water in there when he was a puppy and it worked very well for us.

Also, I never heard of a dog voluntarily drinking their own pee, so I wouldn't worry too much about that (though I may be wrong, I dunno...)


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Oops, just re-read your original post and she does lick up her own pee. Well, maybe she is *trying* to be clean, but her little bladder just can't take overnight in her crate? I know that when Cey was younger I had to get up every few hours to take him out, or give him a pee pad to pee on.

Anyway, I see nothing wrong with letting her stay in the kitchen, but that's just my opinion


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## luv2bmomof4 (Feb 29, 2012)

*Update- Gross Habit*



luv2bmomof4 said:


> Not sure to post this here or in the potty area. Ok here it goes. Bella is almost 15 weeks old and has been doing great on potty training but since we got her at 8 weeks I noticed that she has been trying to turn around and drink her pee right after she goes the only way I try to stop that is to stand right next to her when she goes and if she tries to lick it tell her no and pick her up then bring her back in the house. That was working or at least so I thought. Now recently I have noticed that she is wetting her bed at night, she is crated at night and was doing good at first. As soon as I hear her, I jump up and take her out but sometimes before I get to her I notice that she had already peed and is not fresh its like maybe it leaked and she licked it up. So I thought ok maybe, just maybe I didn't hear her whine to go out so I have been picking up her water bowl at about 8pm she goes for her last potty around 10 to 1030pm then usually wakes at 7am I purposely got up at 5 to wake her up to go and low and behold she peed in her kennel on her blanket and didn't even care she is not waking up to go. I didn't think dogs liked to sleep where they pee, do you think she is purposely peeing to lick it up or do some dogs just sometimes wet the bed. I heard large breeds can do that in their deep sleep after they are fixed can this be possible for her to. Its only at night not during naps. I have never scolded her when she had an accident in the house cause if she did it was not her fault but mine for not paying attention to her so I don't think she is trying to hide it, should I not crate her at night I do not think she is 100% potty trained yet, she does love her crate she knows that is where she sleeps at night, during the day I leave it open so she can go in there if she wants to without closing the door and she will nap in there as well. Im afraid to put her in there without the blanket cause at least that is soaking up the urine and she can't lick it all up, either way its gross, any suggestions would help. Thank you. She sees her vet in a few weeks and I will talk to him again but in the meantime im hoping to get some advise. Thank you,


Update:Ok we seen the vet on Friday he checked her out and believes that her peeing in the kennel is just a training issue and did not believe she had a uti because she is not constantly going pee. He suggested no blanket in the kennel. I placed her kennel in the kitchen gates up kennel door open, for a night or so there was no pee in the kennel then the third night she peed in the kennel even though the door was open when my hubby woke up she was in her bed next to the kennel, so the next night she must have been asleep for maybe 2 hours I woke her up to take her out around 11pm she was already wet. So I called the vet the next day I asked about urinary incontinence he said it was possible but she could have a bladder infection causing her her sphincter to relax during REM sleep so he put her on antibiotics, urine to be tested in 2 weeks. Back in the kennel, door shut no blanket, First night no pee again but this morning when I woke up she was wide awake and her face was all wet and smelled like pee (she licked it up)..gross. At this point I really believe she is peeing in her kennel on purpose, she does not cry to come out if she has to go to the bathroom. I am home all day so I do not keep her in the kenneled through out the day if I do leave she is in the kitchen with the gates up. She goes into her kennel on her own to take a nap and even when she knows it bed time so I know she don't mind being in there. I am so frustrated with her peeing in her kennel, did I do this to her? When she first came to us she woke up several times a night to go out and use the bathroom now that she is more house trained during the day she doesn't even peep at night to go out. Is she being lazy..smh. How do I get her to stop peeing in her kennel. The day of her last shots she peed in her kennel on the way home I brushed it off to her being a little afraid and not feeling well after her shots but now i don't know. Any suggestions?


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

I have a couple of thoughts which may or may not apply. 

A lot of Havs (mine included) have really subtle ways of communicating. Lots of them stare at us when they have to go to the bathroom rather than be more obvious. Brody does this. He'll sit at the end of the bed and stare at me. If that doesn't work he'll then begin a very soft whimper noise (but it's really soft and I can easily sleep through that and he never escalates the sound of it). Now that he's on the bed rather than in his crate, he will come jump on me or lick my face. So my thought is, that maybe she is communicating but it's being missed because you are asleep and it's too subtle to wake you up. Perhaps getting up around 2 or 3 am to take her for a potty break might help.

Also, perhaps play food/crate games with her. If she's getting treats in her crate she may be less likely to soil in there. Again, I'll use Brody as an example. At work, I take him to an upstairs office for lunch break. I'd take him outside to go and he'd pee out there but not poo. Invariably, once we hit the office he'd go poo by the door. (we use an indoor system at home, so I can see why he thought this was OK). Once I started using a food/treat ball that rolls over the floor and drops kibble/treats (and he needed a big area to do this) well then he stopped going poop up there too. I'm sure it was because he was getting food there and so now it was no longer an OK place to soil in his mind. I know others have also mentioned sprinkling kibble on areas where there Havs were having accidents and it helping.


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## luv2bmomof4 (Feb 29, 2012)

I never thought about the kibble in the kennel, I will try that, Thanks.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The other thing to keep in mind is that, if I remember correctly, you don't really know anything about how she was raised. Her coloring, cute as it is, is not within standard, and the fact that the person was selling puppies in a parking lot makes it a pretty sure bet that she didn't have the best start in life. Puppies learn to stay clean in their bed and/or kennel because the mom (with a LOT of help from the breeder) makes sure that the whelping box is kept scrupulously clean. Puppies from puppy mills or back yard breeders often grow up either on wire floors or under conditions where they are regularly in contact with their wastes. So it just becomes a normal part of life for them.

It doesn't mean that puppies from this sort of background can't be successfully potty trained, and can't successfully learn to keep their beds clean, but it can take a lot longer than it would for a puppy with a better start in life. 

Keep working at it, but don't get too frustrated with her OR with yourself. It may just take time!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I agree with everything that has been said. time and patience is key. I also feel if she is better out of the crate why not stick with that? My Cash, did much better out of his crate. How bout setting up an expen in your bedroom, maybe even with a pee pad. so if she does have to go at night she has a designated place, that will absorb the urine more completely so less likely to lick it. I also want to ask if you clean the crate and blanket with an enzyme cleaner like simple solution to remove all the smell, even the ones we can't smell but Bella can?

Karen makes a great point that you don't know how she was raised. The crate may have bad associations even though she seems to like to go there to nap. she may feel she is supposed to.

I am not an expert by any means... maybe Carol can weigh in on this-- But trying to lick it up, makes me think that she was taken from her mom very young or never weaned from her mom. My understanding is a mom will lick up the pups urine and poop until they weaned. And she may be copying that behavior.

Also, you mentioned your son has asthma... urine is a huge allergen. Knowing this may help you control your son's reactions. grooming will help but not letting him near the urine will help more. I had much worse allergies when my boys were young and peed in the house...but once when I was cleaning a peed in crate I actually started to wheeze. I am fine now that they are older and pee outside and have the control not pee on their legs.

I have one more thought, really not sure it applies to urine... But sometimes dogs due these gross things because of a nutritional deficiency. My Cash was a poop eater (turned himself into a pretzel to get it coming out, gasp ) until we changed his diet to raw, and specifically bison. many of his allergic things resolved too...goopy eyes, and ears, and my always pudgy boy got lean. I know Cash did the poop eating out of hunger, when ever we stray from his diet and add more carbs, or simply change proteins he becomes ravenous and will start the nasty habit again. I don't know what nutrients Bella would be trying to get from her urine or if this even applies but just thought I would throw it out there.

Good luck. I just want to add...that Bella is an absolute doll, 15 weeks is very young. many Havanese are not completely reliable til after a year. 8-12 months of patience for 10-15 years of joy is worth it.


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## luv2bmomof4 (Feb 29, 2012)

Thank you and you both are right I do not know how she was raised but she was very filthy when I got her. Vet said that she was around 8 to 9 weeks when I got her (I took her in the same day I got her) which is what the lady told me. I clean her crate with Natures Miracle advanced stain and odor remover and wash her blankets in hot water with Oxy added to detergent and a little bleach I do a deep clean with an extra rinse. Last night I put kennel in the kitchen again and I left kennel her open (blanket was wet this morning). I want to put a pee pad down but she wants to shred it. She hasnt had an accident in the house for pee in about 2 weeks or poop for about a month. Shes lucky after having 4 boys I have learned to have ALOT of patience..lol. Well for now time is all I can give her. I did try the kibble in the crate thing. I fed her in there this morning and what little she left in the bowl I just poured it in her crate a few min. later she went back in and finished it up. I will keep trying this for a few more days and see if it helps. Thank you for the info on the asthma I did not know urine can trigger an attack. She is not allowed in my sons room and thankfully I do not have carpet in the rest of my house I comb her everyday and she takes a weekly bath I clean her with baby wipes in between. Thank you all for your input and hopefully in a few months I can say "Yey no more bed wetting."


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