# I'm almost positive Rollie has Sebaceous Adenitis



## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Hello, everyone.

It's been a while since I posted, but I was hoping for some advice. Rollie, now 7, developed crusty spots on his rear about a 1.5 years ago. At first, I just thought it was dirt build-up in his coat, but it began to spread up to his trunk. We've brought him to multiple vets, and basically, the input I'm getting is that it's likely a chronic skin condition that's more cosmetic than anything. I'm pretty sure it's sebaceous adenitis (the vets have ruled out everything you an test for, and they admit it could be SA, but they really haven't given an actual diagnosis), based on the way the scaly build-up--which is only spotty, not covering his whole boy--and the little clumps of hair that seem to come out when you remove one. (Sorry if that's gross!) But another thing I've noticed is that he has lost a ton of his coat. Some of the hair looks like it's grown back, but the skin condition hasn't gone away. It gets better then it gets worse again. Basically, all the soft, floofy coat is gone from his flank/back (all the white floof), and only the heavier/flatter, coarser hair remains (the brown/gold overcoat). I think he lost his under coat. It hasn't seemed to impact his legs/feet, chest, or head as much. 

The vet gave him a course of IM antiboitics and an anti-inflammatory (oral), which seemed to help clear it up some, and we've been doing medicated baths alternating with Selsen Blue baths about weekly. 

Do you know of anything else we might try to remove the scaly skin and to maybe promote hair regrowth? I'm not sure if there are better shampoos to try, and I hate to stop what we're doing since that's what the vets have recommended. But, at the same time, I'm only seeing mild improvement (and the vets don't seem to have any other ideas), so I'd appreciate any Hav owner expertise you can share.

Thanks, everyone!

P.S. This condition isn't life-threatening in any way, and aside from that, Rollie remains in great health and is happy and very energetic.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I'm sorry, this is tough. Here are some informative links to check, in case you haven't already found them:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21210878

https://www.havanese.org/images/Zoetis-Sebaceous-Adenitis.pdf

http://www.havaneseforum.com/6-general-discussion/22122-sebaceous-adenitis.html


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

here is info Havanese related https://pages.wustl.edu/dogbreeds/s...ive-study-clinical-presentation-and-incidence


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Thanks guys! Has anyone here tried this stuff? For example, the article says to try "keratolytic shampoo," but has anyone here tried one, and what ones do you recommend? There's the oil dousing procedure, which I've read about, but has anyone done that? I read the akita post a while back, but I'm wondering if anyone has tried it recently and how it went. And I've heard of using different kinds of oil, but I don't know which is best.


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

BTW, this is the most helpful article I've found, and it contains suggestions of the things to try (see lettered footnote at the end).

VetFolio


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I have no personal experience with SA, (we've got other problems, ) so have not used any of the recommendations.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Jessica,

I am sorry that you have been frustrated in getting Rollie's skin condition diagnosed. My understanding is that the best way to diagnose S.A. is to do a biopsy with the sample needs to be sent to a lab. Havanese REscue has taken in a number of dogs with SA with most of them treated by Sandra Koch, DVM, a professor at the University of Minnesota College of Veterinary Medicine who has studied this condition in Havanese.

https://www.vmc.umn.edu/bio/doctors-alphabetical/sandra-koch

Perhaps your Vet can refer you to a Veterinary Dermatologist or will contact Dr. Koch to consult on Rollie's case.

There was another Havanese with S.A. who came into HRI about a year ago in the Tri-State area. her foster mom handled her treatment and decided to adopt her. She is a member of the Havanese forum, so I will ask her to comment on this thread as she knows so much more than I do.

Good luck with getting Rollie diagnosed soon.

Starr


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## Jen Jablonski (Nov 12, 2016)

Hi Jesse,
I thought I had replied to you earlier buy my post doesn't seem to be showing up so I'm posting again.

I'm the one Starr mentioned that has the pup with SA. She was diagnosed by a dermatologist and had biopsies and skin scrapings to determine that. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have regarding SA I have learned a lot since acquiring Lucy.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Jessica,

How is Rollie doing? Have you taken him to a Veterinary Dermatologist for biopsies and skin scrapings as Jen did with Lucy?


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Hi, Starr.

Yes, they did the skin scraping, and from what my vet told me, this is more of a diagnosis of rule-outs as opposed to something they actually can "see." I wonder if that is accurate...


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Jen Jablonski said:


> Hi Jesse,
> I thought I had replied to you earlier buy my post doesn't seem to be showing up so I'm posting again.
> 
> I'm the one Starr mentioned that has the pup with SA. She was diagnosed by a dermatologist and had biopsies and skin scrapings to determine that. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have regarding SA I have learned a lot since acquiring Lucy.


Hi. I never got notified of your response. Thank you!

So, as I mentioned, we did the tests (scrapings/biopsies), and the doctor didn't actually give a formal diagnosis, but kept it to it's a chronic, likely genetically-based, skin condition that you will need to manage. I asked if it could be SA, and she said it is very possible that's what it is. She made it sound like knowing specifically what it is isn't necessary b/c you treat it the same...

So, she gave medicated shampoo and suggested alternating that with baths with Selsun Blue, but I don't think the Selsun Blue helps at all. So, I did end up getting some other products after posting here. I got Epi-soothe Conditioner, which came fast, so we've already used that, and it seems great. And I got Seba-Hex, which took longer to arrive, so we'll probably try that today or tomorrow. Oh, and I got some Omega-3/Omega-6 treats that he's actually willing to eat.

His condition hasn't spread, it seems to be under better control, and I think the Epi-Soothe reduced some of the crustiness on his butt cheeks. I also got Kerri bath oil, which scares me frankly. I'm trying to figure out how we'd coat our busy boy in oil and then keep him calm and restricted in his movements. I can just see his pitiful face in his crate now. LOL.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

one thing that might make a difference is diet. I would feed the best diet you can afford. Also check this article out on Omega 3 and EFAs. The Dog Food Project - Nutrients: Essential Fatty Acids


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## Jen Jablonski (Nov 12, 2016)

I?m surprised you couldn?t get confirmation of SA with the biopsy perhaps he has something different. Lucy?s SA was pretty advanced when she came to me. I use a shampoo that has salicylic acid. I don?t know the name but can get it for you if you want. I use Kerri oil and leave it on for two hours. I wrap Lucy in a plastic grocery bag which works fine I don?t crate her. Omega 3-6-9 oils in her food were recommended as well.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Jen Jablonski said:


> I?m surprised you couldn?t get confirmation of SA with the biopsy perhaps he has something different. Lucy?s SA was pretty advanced when she came to me. I use a shampoo that has salicylic acid. I don?t know the name but can get it for you if you want. I use Kerri oil and leave it on for two hours. I wrap Lucy in a plastic grocery bag which works fine I don?t crate her. Omega 3-6-9 oils in her food were recommended as well.


Poor baby Lucy. Is she much better after you have been treating her for awhile? How do you wrap her in a plastic sack? Doesn't she want to move around and panic?


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Jen,

I remember seeing a wonderful collage of Lucy wearing PJ's and chewing on a long-lasting chew. That would tend to keep your floors and furniture clean.


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Jen Jablonski said:


> I?m surprised you couldn?t get confirmation of SA with the biopsy perhaps he has something different. Lucy?s SA was pretty advanced when she came to me. I use a shampoo that has salicylic acid. I don?t know the name but can get it for you if you want. I use Kerri oil and leave it on for two hours. I wrap Lucy in a plastic grocery bag which works fine I don?t crate her. Omega 3-6-9 oils in her food were recommended as well.


Hmm. I don't know why our vet wouldn't be able to formally confirm it if other have been able to do so. They didn't seem to think it mattered to know exactly what it was; they basically said this happens with this breed, it will always be there, it will flare and improve, and to just manage it.

The shampoo I got DOES have salicylic acid. I can't wait to see what Rollie thinks of being wrapped in a bag. LOL. He's going to LOVE that.

The food I give him is Wellness brand, Complete Health Small Breed formula. He's been on it for years.


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## Jen Jablonski (Nov 12, 2016)

Lucy is doing much better here are some after pics. Her undercoat is permanently gone but the other hair has grown up n nicely especially on her back and sides. Oil soak days are a party here everyone gets yummy treats. I have found that carefully placed Gorilla tape holds the bag on well.


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## Jen Jablonski (Nov 12, 2016)

Gorilla tape to hold the bag on. I cut a hole for her head and wrap the bag around her kind of like a poncho. You can put a onesie on top to further secure things. I semi home cook for my pups, Doctor Harvey’s premix with my own freaky cooked meats and veggies. I’ve always fed my other two pups this so I’m not sure if this would make a difference with Lucy but it can’t hurt.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

What an adorable girl she is! And how wonderful of you to take her in and make her well!!!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Lucy's cute as can be!


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

OMG, Jen, these pics. Such a cutie. 

So, we've been doing the baths with the new shampoo/conditioner for about a month now, and so far, I think it's working! 

First off, the little scabby crusts are pretty much GONE. I can see definite growth on his tail. His white tip is lengthening and there are some < 1 inch length floofy hairs on his butt cheeks (that's where the crusts cleared up first) that I'm pretty sure is regrowth. His flanks are pretty hairless. Sigh. He's still got the golden hair (all short) that grows tight to his flank on both sides, but most of the longer, lighter floof is gone from his right flank and a lot is gone from his left flank. I'm not sure if those short hairs are SUPPOSED to be short OR if they're signs of re-growth. If the Havanese does NOT have a tight-to-the-body/short undercoat, then that's regrowth too!

I'm not surprised he lost more hair after starting the treatments b/c the salicylic acid would first remove the crusts (and a lot of his hair was literally detached from the follicle BUT holding on by those little scabs) and take the hair with it. Plus, I'm sure the acid dies out his hair and makes it more prone to breaking, which also thins the coat.

Here's what we've been doing: weekly baths with the the seba-hex and epi-soothe followed by a light post-bath application of Kerri Bath oil. I haven't done the full body oiling technique, but have just put a bit on the most affected areas after his bath much the way I put product in my hair and I'm massaging it into his skin so it can help to repair the moisture and also help with the crust removal. After the first time doing this (focusing on his butt cheeks) the scabs were gone in a few days. Gone. I don't think he was that bad to begin with, but now that I know the onsie technique for the full Havanese-oiling, I can try that too if this doesn't seem to continue to work.

Regardless, our pup is still happy (except on bath days; he hates bathing) and healthy in every other way. If his hair doesn't grow back, I just keep telling myself he'll be easier to groom. 

<3 to you all and Happy New Year!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm late in seeing this thread. It sounds like you have had an ordeal in treating Rollie's condition but I'm glad you are getting a handle on it. And the pictures of Lucy really are an eye opener. I was unfamiliar with this condition. Lucy is just adorable. I'm glad that Rollie is also improving!


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

*Update on Rollie's Progress*

Hi, Everyone.

Thank you all for the support you've given me during this with my boy. So, it's been several months, and the hardest part of dealing with Sebaceous Adenitis is WAITING. LOL! The treatments seemed to be working from the very beginning, and in a matter of weeks, we had new hair. Yay!

Now, you can really see the new growth, so I attached this pic. The SA seems to have started near his hind quarters and inched up his torso. There's a little bit of it trying to take hold on his back in the area just before his front legs, but the treatment is keeping it from at bay. Right now, there are no crusts at all on his body.

What this pic shows is the NEW HAIR! Its the short, fluffy, puppy-looking hair you see from his tail to about 3/4 up his back. Then, you'll see the thinner, old hair that never really fully fell out, and closer to his neck is the perfectly healthy area that hasn't been affected at all.

The new hair is this beautiful red-peachy color, which you can see is much warmer than the original honey-blond-brownish hair he started with. So, we'll see if he ends up multi-toned after this.

I'm so grateful for the info. It's really worked. And I'll add the steps we took here for anyone who hasn't seen the whole thread.

1. Weekly baths with Seba Hex shampoo; leave it on for 10 minutes.
2. Follow with weekly conditioning with Epi-Soothe conditioner. Leave on for 10 minutes.
3. For areas with active crusts, follow by rubbing a little bit of Keri Bath Oil into the skin after the bath. Leave on until next bath. It will absorb in after a day or two.

That's it. And everything is available on Amazon.

:heart:


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Beautiful! Thanks for the update!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

That is wonderful!


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

I am totally wowed. Your baby is a redhead now, used to be a blond. If only I could manage this trick for myself, and change my skin tone and eye color to go with the red. 

The color changing hav is so much fun in so many different ways. 

But, I am sorry for your troubles, health concerns are never fun.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I'm thrilled to hear this! You are a wonderful furmom, and your furbaby is looking so good!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It's awesome news that you have
been able to get it back under control, and his new hair looks lovely and healthy! I am SO happy for both you and Rollie!!!


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Jesse:

Rollie looks fabulous! I am so glad you have been able to manage his SA and keep it under control Look at that gorgeous hair! Keep up the good work. Despite his hating baths, I'm sure he loves the attention and lack of crusts.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Love the new color!


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## Taylor1216 (Jun 11, 2017)

Hi Jen, Lucy looks great. I believe my little one has SA but she will be having a biopsy on Jan 3, 2019 to confirm. What dog food do you use, you mentioned Dr. Harvey's premix. Can you post a picture? What meat do you cook for Lucy?


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