# Co-Owning and Showing a Dog



## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I have a question about co-owning a dog. My Stogies daddy was "Sponsored" by someone. This means they will technically Co-Own the dog and the person sponsoring the dog pays for him to go out on the road. 

Noah went out with Bill McFadden. He has been showing for many months, he was at Westminster and he won TWO Best of Breeds at Eukanuba on the West Coast. Thats HUGE. Well he is not showing any more and has not been for a while. 

The problem is the person sponsoring him never paid the handler. Just didn't pay. So now the bill is huge and Noah is not being released. Jan, the owner, didn't know about the bill not being paid until this summer. Talks have been going on, but no conclusion has been made and it seems its not going to. Jan and this person have a contract. In the contract it clearly states this person is going to pay all the handling bills and "sponsor" Noah on the road. We all knew this, she bragged about it, and the handler knows it. Only it didn't happen. 

Jan doesn't have the money because it wasn't ever her obligation. So what happens now? What happens when you have a contract, the person says they are going to do it, never tells you they are flaking then just bails?
She claims NO responsibility. She is just impossible to talk to about it as her reality and that of the law are two different things. 

Does ANYONE have experience in this?
Because for the last two months my baby's daddy is living in a crate. And I am pissed.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I guess I should have named this thread "Free Noah" because thats where we are at.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

:rant:I think that is sh--!Why wouldn't the handler give Noah back and at least let Jan have a chance of sueing the sponser in court for his money?I realize he must be paid too,but holding a dog like a hostage is just ridiculous!:rant:


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

Wow that really sounds Big time like a Breech of Contract. Someone has got to be liable for Payment. I know there are some contracts where there is an "Out" somtimes for neglect or some other clause but this sounds pretty cut and dry. Sounds to me like the person who was obligated is the one who is pretty much responsible for the payment. I would perhaps contact a lawyer who specializes in this type of thing to get some advice. Sounds like a stickly situation. Good Luck.

Derek


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

I am sorry to hear this Melissa. I have met Noah many times at our shows out here in the west. the last couple of shows that noah was entered in I asked Bill where Noah was as he was entered but didn't show. He told me it was complicated. Guess now I know why, sorta.
I hope it will all work out. I don't know what the contract states though they should be able to hold the sponsor liable. Keep us informed as this is tough when we have to watch our fur buddies sit in a place that is not theirs. 
I can say though that I know Bill takes care of the animals that are put into his care.
Our prayers are with you and Noahs mom.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Yes Bill is taking care of Noah, I have no doubt. However, we all know he is at shows every weekend and Noah isn't showing. I am sure Noah is just not living the high life. He would be much better, either showing, ( where they do stay pretty active) or at home. 

Jan has been SO much better about this than I would have. I found out because people were asking me where Noah was. They had to finally tell me why he wasn't out there. I was FURIOUS. I was ready to launch a full campaign then. 

Yes the sponsor should be held liable as the contract is So specific. But what do you do when that person just says, "Oh well, Im not going to do it." So yea, lawsuits are starting. I know Bill has a good lawyer. 

I don't really blame him for not releasing Noah. If you were owed 17k and your only security was a dog, would you let it go? I have seen how hard the handlers work. They have to bathe and dry these dogs every show, the grooming the training. Noah won a lot, would you want all that work to go unappreciated? I can't believe this is happening.


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

Wow this sounds like quite The Case. 17K is a tremendous amount of Money when it comes to a business. That is business income that isn't being reported and yeah..what do you do when someone just doesn't want to pay. I can see your side of it totally Melissa when you find out that Noah isn't showing at all and he is becoming a litte rumour amoung the show's when everyone asks where he is. This sounds like it could turn out to be a real precendent setting case if it goes to court.

Derek


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Well that is a relief---knowing Noah is well taken care of...I thought when you posted living in a crate,literally,living in a crate.This is a sad deal all the way around.Of course the man should be paid for his handling of the dog...I can understand that,but the sponser should be liable for their portion of the handling fees that they signed a contract for.That sounds like it would stand up in court to me.I'm not a lawyer--but I should of been one!If the sponser signed a contract saying they would pay X amount of dollars....they will have to come up with payment.This isn't tied up in that darn HSD crap is it?


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Nope...nothing to do with HSD. 

I do think it will hold up in court. The lawyers I know who looked at it, said it was a very strong contract. 

And I know I said living in a crate...but look at it like this: they are at shows all day 3 sometimes 4 days a week. Where do you think he is? Not there. He is not sleeping in their bed. Im sure the dogs they show get A+ care, and I am sure Noah is ok. But he is not being shown and they dont own him as one of their pets, so my guess is he is somewhere in the middle. I bet he is in a crate more than he is not.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

oh yes.......that is sad.......I hope it gets through the courts quickly and is resolved asap.That is no life,I agree.When it is all said and done,I hope the sponser is exposed because who is keeping this from happening to someone else?Screw the owner and the Screw the handler....you know?


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## California Star (Jul 31, 2007)

It all depends on how the contract is written on a sponsorship and the situation the owners work out with the handler. I just can't believe the $17K bill for Noah, that is an enormous amount of money. I heard of this situation with Noah from a very good friend of mine who are clients of the McFaddens a month ago... It's very sad when pets become a "status" for some people. I show my dog, but he absolutely does not travel with the handler nor does he live in a crate. He has so much personality, he listens to conversations and tilts his head, talks and puts in his two cents worth.

I hope the situation resolves with Noah with him being returned home to people who love him for who he is and not a status symbol. Services were rendered by the McFaddens in terms of showing Noah, so the payment has to be made to compensate for their work and time. 

Hope to meet all of you at the national!!


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## Suuske747 (May 9, 2007)

Poor Noah......

Well, I don't agree with "understanding" the handlers choice on how to deal with the 17K bill......The sponsor/co-owner doesn't have the connection to the dog, that the real owner does....so the sponsor could care less, obviously.....he's punishing the dog, instead of the person responsable....
I think the owner should show the handler the contract were it states who's responsable for the costs, and take Noah home, I'd even call the police on the guy.....he's holding him hostage, he has no right to the dog.....I mean, what if the bill is never payed? He's going to sell the dog to get his money? He's never going to get 17K for him!It's stupid....

Here, if a bill is not payed, you get an incasso-agency to get the money for you or you go to court....but you can not hold an animal hostage...I think that you could actually sue this guy for holding Noah hostage...he has no right.....he is playing judge....
I would be extremely furious!!!!!I'd call the police!!!!!!!!


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## windfallhavs (Oct 19, 2006)

Wow...this SUCKS! Noah is one of my favorite havanese and I can not believe that the sponsor is not paying the bill...I hate to think of him held hostage in CA and not home with Jan where he belongs. I hope she does not have a problem getting that other person off Noah's papers....I guess it is a lesson to all of us that you need to be REALLY careful when you get into sponsoring a special. I met his sponsor at last year's national and she seemed up and up....I am shocked!

Poor Noah....I hope he gets home SOON!


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## Greg (Oct 25, 2006)

This happens all the time in the "sport of dogs." Bill McFadden is a top handler and an honest guy. Bill isn't doing anything wrong and his handling contract probably even says the bill has to be paid in full before you can pick up your dog (the two handlers we use have that in their contracts). 

We need to be careful in blaming Bill in this........he hasn't done anything wrong. He showed Noah just like he agreed to in his contract. This is what he does to feed his family. This isn't a game to him.

Jan is a friend of mine as well. She was excited about sending Noah out with a sponsor for many reasons....not the least of which it would bring her kennel some fame. But she also knew the risks involved whenever you let someone sign on for half a dog and agree to foot the bill. 

I doubt Bill will return Noah without being paid, and he shouldn't. I wish Jan has other recourse but I'm not sure she does.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

What a mess!!! Westminster was months ago. A few major questions in my mind:

Is this a three way contract with the Jan, Bill and the Sponsor? 
Did Bill sign on who was to pay the fees? 
Why was Jan not notified the fees were not being paid? In order to rectify before the debt got so large.

I had friends who were professional handlers and there were a lot of dead beats who did not pay their bills. Holding their dog was their only recourse and the Courts did not consider show dogs as pets.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I can understand the business end of this issue but the sad thing is Noah and his co-owner are paying the price for a problem not of their making. If this was spelled out in a contract, how can the sponsor suddenly (or not so) decide not to pay? It would seem to be cut and dried.

I must say, if I ever had any thought of going the route of co-ownership, this would kill it. My heart breaks for them.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I agree with Greg as to what I have read here, Sponsors are a new term for me, so I have other questions:

Is this sponsor a “Dog" person?
How do they recoup the fees? With name recognition? Stud fees? Puppies?


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## Greg (Oct 25, 2006)

I believe the assumption that Noah is being mistreated is way off base. Think for a moment .............how could a top level professional handler earn a living if they had the reputation of abusing dogs? That's ridiculous. 

I'm positive he's being treated no differently than any other dog in Bill's string and to accuse him of anything else is irresponsible. This isn't Bill's problem. It's a problem with the sponsor/co-owner.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I doubt that Noah is being miss treated in any way. He is probably getting the same treatment as when he was shown. If he was still out there being shown no one would be worried or concerned about him. It is easy to think of him as a little pet, but Noah became a business when he was given to the handler and that business has responsibilities. I would think this bill is growing every day. 17K is a lot to rack up in handling fees before you knew about it.


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## Greg (Oct 25, 2006)

I agree with you. I know that bill grows each day with room & board. If he's traveling with Bill then he has travel expenses too


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Greg could you answer my questions?


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I think Jan should make a good faith agreement with the handler. She can make small payments to pay off the bill while this is going throught the courts and in return, get Noah back and start showing him again. If the contract is as cut and dry as it sounds, it should be an easy case of breach. I don't know how much money we are talking about, but maybe in can be settled in small claims.


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## California Star (Jul 31, 2007)

I think when the dog become a status it is sad. I know Bill and Taffy, we see them almost every weekend. They are very well respected and I know that Noah is not mistreated. The handlers needs to be paid before the dog can be returned, that is their only insurance. Knowing handlers, their contract also probably specifies situations when they aren't paid they will hold the dog in their posession. Knowing the McFaddens, they do charge a monthly boarding fee, so Noah's bill definitely does not stop at $17K, it's adding! 

We have a sponsor this year for Bailey, we pay the handler after every weekend. Our sponsor, Jeri Baran has been wonderful. It all depends on who the sponsor is and how the contract is written.

It's sad for Noah, but in the grand scheme of things, I think he was a status symbol for someone. At this point, the issue is not getting him out on the show circuit and show anymore. The issue is who will bail him out so he can be a beloved pet to someone?? I think some show people lose perspective on these dogs, they should be our "companions" first and "show dogs" second. 

Just my two cents worth, I am fairly new in this dog world, Bailey is my first show dog and I would never think to send him out overnight with anyone. He has never been away from me for a night.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I also agree this is not Bills fault in any way and he is treating Noah as good as he can. But not as good as he would be treated at HOME. 

If I were Bill, I would not release Noah either. 

I do not believe they have a contract with Bill at all. I do not think he does contracts. So the contract is with the sponsor and the owner, Jan. It clearly states the sponsor would pay all handling bills. 

Yes the sponsor is a dog person. What they get out of it varies in each situation. Its pretty much notoriety for "owning" a winning dog. It can help with make a name for their business. They can also get puppies, free stud, whatever they agree to. I don't know what this particular agreement was. 

Trust me, if this were my dog this would not have happened. Not only would I have him back, Im not sure I would ever get in a co-own situation. Its so messy.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Was Noah a house pet before going with Bill? How long has he been gone? it is just so hard for me to believe Jan did not know this bill was not being paid before it reached such a high amount. I would have thought the handlers would have stopped showing sooner.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Ok I just typed out another repsonse and its gone... ugh! 

I don't see how anyone sends a dog a out with a handler full time. There are some dogs that I doubt would ever remember the owner. That's not for me. Sending Stogie out when I was in Europe was tough! And two weeks would be my max, although Im not sure I would ever do it again. When Lois was showing both mine for their championship I bribed her big time to take them to the room. I did NOT want my dogs sleeping at the show site. 

Any dog who shows a lot of stays out with a handler is in a crate ALOT. During the day when they are not being shown they are in crates, then obviously all night. Its just part of the program. 

Karen, I like how you handle showing Bailey. Owners need to learn from this, and make sure you check on that bill and keep it manageable. 

There were a lot of people with Noah puppies who are embarrassed by all of this. I told the sponsor this.... I go into a restaurant and I dine. I don't have a contract with the waitress that I am going to pay them before I eat. 
If I leave and don't pay, its theft of services. If you ask me, thats what they have done to Bill, theft of services. If he returns Noah he will never get paid, I have no doubt.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Sandi, he was a show dog. He did live with Jan in between showing. But she bred him and owned him. I think Jan should have known about the bill also, but since she was not paying the handler, she left that between the sponsor and the handler. All of the bills were going directly to the sponsor. 

The bills can add up fast. You have to consider things like Westminster and the shows that require hotel, flights etc... those costs are all passed down to the owners.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

It is a bad deal for everyone, the handler, owner and now everyone knows the sponsor is not trustworthy. Do they have a side to this story?


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

What I don't understand is how keeping the dog solves anything. I can't imagine a top handler mistreating dogs but if the sponsor never pays, how is keeping the dog going to recoup any of the money the handler is owed. I can't imagine anyone would pay 17k for the dog. If the handler is not a breeder then he can't recoup monies through pups either. The dog is stuck in the middle. I hope this gets resolved quickly for the sake of the dog and the poor guy who is owed 17k. Isn't there some provision to get paid as you go? How did it ever get to the point of owing 17K? I would think bills would be submitted as you go so as soon as one month's bill didn't get paid, the dog stops showing, period! 

Susan


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## Greg (Oct 25, 2006)

SMARTY said:


> Greg could you answer my questions?


I don't have all the facts so I can't answer your questions. I can tell you the "sponsor" contract I was going to sign said that I co-owned the dog with the new "co-owner" and that for this "right" the co-owner was responsible to pay everything (Room, board, travel, entry fees, advertising, everything......) and that the only right I retained were the breeding rights. Once the dog was finished being campaigned the dog would be returned to me ......and then I could begin breeding him again. In my contract there was no doubt who paid and who got the glory (if there was any glory).


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

We had co ownership in the past that gave you stud rights, a puppy back and such, but did not know about sponsorship. The breeder would always get the glory unless you are talking trophies, publicity or in the moment type recognition. What else would the Sponsor get in a normal contract?


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## Dawna (Aug 3, 2006)

No one said Noah is being mistreated. He is most likely not living in the most ideal situation for a dog that is used to living with and being loved by a family.
Jan did know the risks of of using a sponsor for her dog. Jan is also a trusting person who assumes, like most people would, that a person she considered her friend would do the right, lawful and honest thing. Otherwise, she would not have allowed her to sponsor Noah.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

And the sponsor does have her side of the story. Its somewhere up there between just total non-reality and sci-fi. 

You sign a contract, you say you are going to do certain things. You high roll the handler in NY, buying rounds of drinks for him and his staff, then you act like you have amnesia.


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## California Star (Jul 31, 2007)

Melissa,

There are two types of people in this doggy dog world so we call conformation AKC dog shows. There are the types that just love the dogs, because they are our companion and there are the types that love the fame that comes with showing. Well, I love my dog no matter if he wins or lose, he goes home with me at the end of my day and I love him. I basically go to all the shows, I do the grooming and the handler ring side the dogs. It takes a little coordination between the handler and the owner. Honestly, not many handlers will agree to ring side dogs, especially specials, because they feel the dog need to bond with them. My handler, who we were very fortunate to have connected with Bailey right away... Initially, he was hesitate, being a mama's boy, he'll look for me, but now when he goes in the ring, I do have to be out of sight, but he does not panic, he feels comfortable with the handler. 

I do not understand how people can send out their dogs months at a time with a handler, to me, they are only in it for the fame. What happens to the dog when he is returned home?? Is the fame really worth the dog being in a crate months at a time and losing his characters and personality??

This year has been fun for me in terms of traveling to various parts of the U.S for Shows, it's part of the experience. If I can't go, than Bailey doesn't go. It's more important for me that he is healthy and happy... I want him to enjoy the shows and have a good time. 

In my heart, he is #1 no matter what the judges think!!


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## ruthann (Jan 26, 2007)

JAN needs to hire a lawyer. There appears to be two contracts. Jan has one with the sponsor and Bill has a contract with the sponsor maybe he has a contract with Jan and the sponsor. There is no way without reading the contracts to know who will be held liable. Contracts are enforceable in the Courts. Jan needs to file a law suit against the Sponser for payment of Bill's services. If I were Jan I would try to work with Bill, it's in both there interests to resolve payment.


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Looking at this as a person in the Retail/Wholesale Business, my biggest question is: Why did the Handler continue to handle the dog if he wasn't getting paid? 

In my business, if you don't pay your bills you don't get more product. I can't imagine letting a "customer" carry an unpaid balance and keep getting more and more product.

I don't know the handler, and he has every right to be paid for his services, but I also think that it is his responsiblity to stop his services before it gets out of hand. 

For example if he wasn't paid for June by the end of July, you wouldn't continue to show the dog in August. This is just an example. I don't know how long it takes to run up a bill of $17,000, but I think it would be more than a month or two. 

I think the handler should take some of the blame for allowing the bill to get so high. But there may be much more to this than has been said.

I do hope that Noah can some how be returned to the people who love him most.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

California Star said:


> Melissa,
> 
> There are two types of people in this doggy dog world so we call conformation AKC dog shows. There are the types that just love the dogs, because they are our companion and there are the types that love the fame that comes with showing. Well, I love my dog no matter if he wins or lose, he goes home with me at the end of my day and I love him. I basically go to all the shows, I do the grooming and the handler ring side the dogs. It takes a little coordination between the handler and the owner. Honestly, not many handlers will agree to ring side dogs, especially specials, because they feel the dog need to bond with them. My handler, who we were very fortunate to have connected with Bailey right away... Initially, he was hesitate, being a mama's boy, he'll look for me, but now when he goes in the ring, I do have to be out of sight, but he does not panic, he feels comfortable with the handler.
> 
> ...


Karen,
I am sorry, but I disagree with you. I think Jan and many of us that have or had specials in the ring, love our dogs just as much as you do Bailey. It isn't easy on the owner to send a dog out with a handler either. I miss my Vallee very, very much as I am sure Jan misses Noah terribly. However, I also know that she (Vallee) isn't living in a crate all the time either. She is loved and well cared for by her handler "daddy". It is the owners job to make sure the handler they hire are doing what they expect regarding the care and love of their dog while being shown. It isn't all horrible on the dog, as you suggest.

Specialing a dog is about showing a dog that one feels exemplifies the breed standard. I think everyone, whether they bring there dog ringside or it lives with the handler is doing the same thing. Advertising a dog helps too. <grin> By the way, loved the picture of Susie and Bailey on the cover of TNT.

This is a terrible situation for all involved. The McFadden's are wonderful people. They live "just down the road from me" and I know they take great care of the dogs they are responsible for. I am sure there are 2 sides to every story, however, the McFadden's have completed their job and should be paid.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't know anything about the dog show world,but I do think this is sad.It is sad that even with a contract there was a problem(or several).I hope the handler is paid and happy,the sponser decides to pay him,and the owner gets back her dog......

My question may be a silly one--but please answer if you can---
After a dog has reached this statis,is he worth more?If he is studded out,how much does an owner make off of the dog?I'm curious,as my husband and I were discussing if the owner had to pay the 17,000.00 herself to get her dog back,how long it would take etc.Or if the handler could stud out the dog?

Thanks


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Debbie and Kathy, I agree with you 100%, been there done that and know how much we all love our dogs.

Julie, finishing and specialing a dog does make them more valuable in the stud department and a bitch with her pups. You special a dog as a form of advertisement and then use their wins in your ads until such time as you have the get to advertise. Finished offsprings are the highest form of advertisement.

I have no idea what stud fees run, good question.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

SMARTY said:


> Debbie and Kathy, I agree with you 100%, been there done that and know how much we all love our dogs.
> 
> Julie, finishing and specialing a dog does make them more valuable in the stud department and a bitch with her pups. You special a dog as a form of advertisement and then use their wins in your ads until such time as you have the get to advertise. Finished offsprings are the highest form of advertisement.
> 
> I have no idea what stud fees run, good question.


Oh I see....he is valuable in the advertising--is he actually worth 17,000.00?Putting emotions aside,I mean.....I'm just thinking from a pet perspective,but you figure a 2000.00-4000.00 dog as he started out,then championed,now specialled---he is valued at ?
It seems like it'd take alot of breeding to pay this enormous bill.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I think Bill has a lot of big named clients and Im sure some let the bill run up and have no problem writing a big check for several thousand dollars. 
Of course, he had faith they would pay it, and I don't think he for a second intentionally showed Noah to get the bill higher. The minute he figured out something was going on, he stopped. 

Is Noah worth 17k? Who the heck knows. Thats kind of a crazy amount to spend on showing, but it easily gets up there. Studd fees probably average around 2k. I think you can get money or a puppy depending on your arrangement. I would think it would be while to recoup that kind of money. 

Jan doesn't have 8k or Im sure that would have been an option for her to. I do think lawsuits are already in progress so thats a good thing. I hope anyone wanting to get in this situation in the future, learn from this. 

Also, there is no doubt how Jan feels about Noah. Its much more than a status thing with her. She feels he is the dog she has been working towards in her breeding program and she is very proud. Listening to her cry countless times over this in worry about whats going to happen to Noah, there is no doubt of the bond there. 

I personally could not send my dog out full time, however I don't judge those that do. My dogs have been out with handlers, although for shorter periods. To this day if they see Janice or Lois, they both run up wagging their tails. They would not be happy if they were neglected in any way.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

How sad a situation to this extreme had to arise. Good for everyone to hear about it so they can protect the poor dog next time.

Amanda


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## miang248 (Jun 29, 2007)

*Wait a minute....*



> I doubt Bill will return Noah without being paid, and he shouldn't


I think he should, it's more than just an issue about $$$, if this man truely loves dogs and wants the best for THE DOG, return it, and go to court over the money.

I know the dog isn't being abused but chances are, it is sitting in a crate being neglected most of the day. That's the life of show dogs on the road with big name handlers. Yes they are fed, yes they are pottied, but NO, they do NOT get the love and attention they get at home and the love and attention every dog really needs to be happy.

Living in a crate is NO fun for a dog. Expecially one with a very social nature like a Havanese.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Is he actually taking Noah on the road with him, even though he's not being shown? Or, is Noah at his (the handler's) home? Just curious. I have absolutely no idea how it works. 

Susan


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Julie, the popularity of a dog can mean that more people would want to use him for stud services, so in that regard, he would be more valuable. When I dog wins often, he also climbs to the top ranks within the breed. Wins at Westminster, Eukanuba and our own Havanese National Specialty all help gain great notority.



> 17K is a tremendous amount of Money when it comes to a business. That is business income that isn't being reported and yeah..what do you do when someone just doesn't want to pay.


Derek, what did you mean by that? When someone says "income that isn't being reported" over here, it brings to mind someone who is doing illegal business and I definitely think that would not apply to the McFaddens. They are one of the highest regarded handler team I know.

I just hope this all gets worked out quickly and that Noah gets home to Jan and the McFaddens get paid.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Yes, Susan, he's on the road.

Miang, he's been cared for just the same as if he was being shown, I'm sure. The owner & sponsor sent him out knowing he would be gone doing this for a couple of years. The difference is that he is not going into the show ring, but he's still being cared for.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Thanks Kimberly. 
I am learning so much about the dog show world from this forum. 

Susan


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I would be surprised if they are hauling him to shows. 

And he doesnt get the same attention as being shown, because he isnt being bathed and brushed and getting ready for the ring, he is just sitting around while the other dogs are being shown. 

I wonder what the rules are with people who board dogs. What if someone goes to get their dog and has NO money. Say they got robbed, or they were just broke. Does the boarding place release the dog? I dont know. 

Like I said if it were my dog, he would be at my house. Even if this situation had happened to me, and I didnt have the money to pay but owned the dog, he would be with me. There is no doubt. 

I guess they are all willing to wait it out and let the courts decide. I would be on a plane to California to pick up my dog, but thats me. 

And I agree with Kimberly that no one said anything about money not being reported.


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## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

> The owner & sponsor sent him out knowing he would be gone doing this for a couple of years. The difference is that he is not going into the show ring, but he's still being cared for.


 That's a big difference in how much attention the dog is going to receive. HUGE difference in hands on attention. I feel sorry for him.


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## California Star (Jul 31, 2007)

I think all we can do is feel sorry for Noah. Poor boy!! 

I don't mean to offend the people that send out their dogs with handlers, I, myself would not do it, at least not with Bailey. I am sure the handlers takes good care of the dogs.

I hope Noah gets home quickly and be with people he loves. 

best, 
Karen


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Karen,
I saw Bailey on the cover of my "Our Havanese" magazine!I knew I had saw that good looking guy before!

Thanks for the info Melissa and Kimberly.

I pray it all gets worked out and Noah gets home to his family.:hug:


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

Well, here's another reason why I am glad I don't have a show dog! These lawsuits can drag on forever.....so much "red tape". I hope it all gets settled and soon and that the guilty party doesn't end up getting off without being made to fulfill their contract. Seems that happens alot these days in every walk of life.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

The best thing that could happened is that they could find a private mediator who can help these people resolve this issue . I am sure that there is a contract and documentation on both sides . To depend on the legal system and lawyers to resolve this issue even though it needs resolution is counterproductive .
The reason I am saying this is that my husband has been involved in litigation through his business . You do not want to go there if you do not have too- lawsuits are expensive - lawyers are expensive . 
Not to mention the stress on the individuals - it gets all blown out of prespective and can become nasty .. Not to mention the time and effort that you have to ut into it and it is taking time away from what they love to do.- show dogs .. 
Some lawyers may take it on contigency if they think they have a good case or if they are desperate (lots of them are like ambulance chasers - no integrity at all ) but the only people who come out of it with money in their pocket are the attorneys .. 
Not to mention the courts are backlogged and backed up and it could take years and I mean years for a resolution . Not one year but up to five - maybe ten the poor dog will be neglected and ignored and unloved for this long .. Not to mention he is not doing the job he thinks he was meant to do - This is a form of animal cruelty. He deserves better and someone needs to advocate for this lovely doggie Meanwhile this poor doggie is being ignored and held hostage .. 
I know you think $17,000 is a lot of money but it is nothing compared to what the attorneys will charge to prepare the case .
Someone needs to talk to these people and explain this side of it . It may not even bring the resolution that they expect especially if it is heard by a judge .. Trust me some of these people ( Judges) are odd ducks and literally do not even do what they law dictates . They will make an exception or overrule or not allow .. I have heard it all .. 
Donald Trump has a case that has been going on for over 20 years and the only original person in the suit is Donald Trump . Everyone else is dead ..
Hopefully someone can explain this side of the situation to these people and they will opt for mediation ..


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Any news on Noah and what is going on? Just curious and interested on how this will work out.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Hopefully this have been resolved for Noah's sake ..
I was watching a dog show the other night and they quoted one handlers as saying I just get to be his buddy and his friend . I do not think she was involved at all financially and maybe this is the way it needs to be .. especially for the dog's sake .


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Very sad story-- I hope it is or gets resolved soon.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I also am curious as to how this turned out.Has there been anything worked out so Noah can go home?


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

The big answer is NO. Bill McFadden still has Noah. Sad.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Oh Melissa that is sooo sooo sad, I'm sorry.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

So does anyone know what it takes to Noah out of this .. Does it take someone paying the fee and then he willl let him go where he belongs as it will take a long time for it to go through the court process .. 
? Has anyone put out feelers to this guy !! i it would be interesting to know what is the bottom line .. Just the money !


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I saw him showing Noah on tv.It was probably a re-run on Animal Planet--but it was a dog show a short while after this thread was started.I called my husband over and said hey--that's Noah and the announcer said Bill McFadden with some praise etc.This is just a darn shame.....I hope it gets through the courts quickly so Noah is home and a resolution is met.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Well Im sure he would settle for a lesser amount. But yes, it would take some money, and a lot of it. He is owed a huge amount. He is a very good guy and its sad that this person put him in this position. The co owner was showing her dog in Greeley when I was there. It was hard for me not to say something to her. And the fact she has the nerve to walk into the ring, amazes me. She knows she was wrong and we used to be friends so this is just awful.


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