# New dilemma



## kathyc (Mar 7, 2013)

Well our little bundle of joy has changed our house many times and now one more. When Werli was brought home he would cry, bark and scream at about 4:am. So we moved his house into our office which is at one end of our first floor. We closed the door at night, our bedroom is on the second floor at the other end of the second floor it`s a pretty big house so we didn`t hear him especially since my husband runs a fan year around in the bedroom to cancel out the birds chirping in the summer. 

Well all of a sudden last week our 6 yr. Husky which has really a good buddy of our Hav has decided to howl all the time our Hav is screaming. Well this is a big problem because our husky is very loud and instantly wakes both of us up, she has never done anything like this before. 

It`s like our Husky is trying to tell us about her buddy being unhappy. So all this is to show the things that can happen that you never would imagine when you have a Hav haha. Hopefully this will run it`s course and get resolved sooner rather than later.


----------



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

woah. wait, so your hav is clear down at the other end of your gigantic house!??? How long has he been so far away from you??
My guess is if you move him into your room he will calm down, sounds like he is panic'd and your other dog is picking up on his stress. How old is Werli??


----------



## marlowe'sgirl (Jun 17, 2010)

Depending on how old your Hav is, he may just need to go potty. My Hav woke up crack of dawn for quite a few months to pee depending on how early we went to bed. Later, he'd wake up and then whine just because he wanted to play (ie no longer a beeline to the door). That we fixed by letting him sleep in our bed so now he wakes up with us. It probably could have been solved by moving him to our bedroom vs in the den, but we like a Hav curled up next to us.


----------



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm sorry, I just still can't wrap my mind around how FAR away from you your poor puppy is .. how long as this been going on!?? I'm afraid at this point you have a MUCH bigger problem than just the big dog barking and waking you up ...


----------



## Tia (Nov 28, 2012)

Are the two dogs togther? Is it a distresssed cry or a lets play cry?


----------



## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Have to agree with Tillie's Mom. How old is Whirli? Making sure the puppy does not need to go potty should be the first concern.


----------



## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

Werli needs to be closer to you in the evenings.
ALso, are you doing a night time pottie break for him at night? He might need to go.


----------



## kathyc (Mar 7, 2013)

TilliesMom said:


> woah. wait, so your hav is clear down at the other end of your gigantic house!??? How long has he been so far away from you??
> My guess is if you move him into your room he will calm down, sounds like he is panic'd and your other dog is picking up on his stress. How old is Werli??


Now he doesn`t do this like he did when we first brought him home. We have always kept our puppies in our bedroom when we bring them home but Werli started barking about 4 am. My husband needs his sleep, he has colon cancer and is in remission but can not handle awaking at 4 am, to much stress.

Werli may do this once or twice a week but now our Husky, his buddy has added a big problem.

Our Hav is very fussy about his house and we have noticed that when he begins having a fussy fit he has wet on his paper in his house. Many nights he never wets in the cage and has never made a stool in it. So we are going to have to figure out how to remove the wet paper in the middle of the night. I`m just hoping he just simply changes.


----------



## kathyc (Mar 7, 2013)

Tia said:


> Are the two dogs togther? Is it a distresssed cry or a lets play cry?


We have 3 dogs but the Husky is Werli`s buddy. It`s pretty much a PO yelping. He`s not crying at all. he`s p.offed to put it bluntly. Werli has gotten to be a tough little guy he spars with the big dogs every day and gets bounced around and he doesn't back off any more, but nothing is out of hand and the few times it has it`s stopped immediately by us, and if we leave, Werli is always in his house.


----------



## kathyc (Mar 7, 2013)

marlowe'sgirl said:


> Depending on how old your Hav is, he may just need to go potty. My Hav woke up crack of dawn for quite a few months to pee depending on how early we went to bed. Later, he'd wake up and then whine just because he wanted to play (ie no longer a beeline to the door). That we fixed by letting him sleep in our bed so now he wakes up with us. It probably could have been solved by moving him to our bedroom vs in the den, but we like a Hav curled up next to us.


We did think it was to go potty but when we took him out he was in no hurry to go, we now think it`s because he has wet on the paper side of his house and is upset because we have noticed he doesn`t like wet papers in his house During the day when he goes into his house to pee he immediately starts to push the wet papers into the corner and when we remove the papers he goes on his way. As I said before we used to put a new puppy in our bedroom for a few weeks but due the this puppy being awake at all times during the night and making noise, it is unexceptable in the light my husband has cancer although in remission he has to have his sleep. So Werli will conform just as all the others have in the past, it`s just a bump.


----------



## kathyc (Mar 7, 2013)

TilliesMom said:


> I'm sorry, I just still can't wrap my mind around how FAR away from you your poor puppy is .. how long as this been going on!?? I'm afraid at this point you have a MUCH bigger problem than just the big dog barking and waking you up ...


I wouldn`t get concerned this is not some big problem it`s a bump.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> I'm sorry, I just still can't wrap my mind around how FAR away from you your poor puppy is .. how long as this been going on!?? I'm afraid at this point you have a MUCH bigger problem than just the big dog barking and waking you up ...


I have to say, Tammy, that Kodi ALWAYS slept down stairs as a puppy, and it was never a problem. Our house isn't that big, and we do nothing to block the noise, so we WOULD have heard him if he cried. But he was PERFECTLY happy down there, and he was far enough from us that we certainly weren't any comfort to him. He slept there from day one. For the first two weeks, either I or my older son slept on the couch near him, just to make sure he was OK, but after that, we were all in our own beds.

It was only last summer, when Kodi got freaked out by the fireworks around 4th of July, that I brought his crate up into our room, and he has stayed there. In the beginning, I wasn't sure whether there would be allergy issues (I have allergies, as do both of my sons) which was one reason he wasn't up stairs. The second reason is that before we put the addition on (with our new, large, master bedroom) our old bedroom was ONLY big enough for the queen sized bed. We would have been tripping over even a crate, let alone an ex-pen when he was a puppy. The last and probably BIGGEST reason was that although Dave is TOTALLY wrapped around Kodi's paw now, he was NOT sold on the idea of a dog initially. I am SURE that a crying puppy in the bedroom during the night would have cause all kinds of friction between us.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

kathyc said:


> We have 3 dogs but the Husky is Werli`s buddy. It`s pretty much a PO yelping. He`s not crying at all. he`s p.offed to put it bluntly. Werli has gotten to be a tough little guy he spars with the big dogs every day and gets bounced around and he doesn't back off any more, but nothing is out of hand and the few times it has it`s stopped immediately by us, and if we leave, Werli is always in his house.


Have you thought about setting up a bigger "house" for Werli, so he can get further away from his potty area. Kodi wouldn't have liked that either. Here is a photo of Kodi's ex-pen set-up when he was a puppy. You can see he has a LOT of separation between his bed area and his potty. Also, the litter (or a potty pad) is much more absorbent than paper is... that might help also.


----------



## kathyc (Mar 7, 2013)

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Have to agree with Tillie's Mom. How old is Whirli? Making sure the puppy does not need to go potty should be the first concern.


Well our concern is that our Hav has everything he needs for a good life and we have made sure of that, he is no different than any our dogs, all have had the same.

But in the end Werli, as all our dogs, have to conform to the needs of everyone in this house and frankly we make the rules and have never had probems with any of our many dogs/puppys over 40+ years.

Havs are like no other dog we have owned, and he has received special treatment for the months he`s been with us. We are all helping Werli join our household and have a good house to live in but Werli will have to do his part as time goes on, I have confidence it will all work out in the end.


----------



## kathyc (Mar 7, 2013)

krandall said:


> Have you thought about setting up a bigger "house" for Werli, so he can get further away from his potty area. Kodi wouldn't have liked that either. Here is a photo of Kodi's ex-pen set-up when he was a puppy. You can see he has a LOT of separation between his bed area and his potty. Also, the litter (or a potty pad) is much more absorbent than paper is... that might help also.


That`s a nice set up. Your big crate is just like ours, other than we have 4 large crates 2 put together in the office and another 2 large crates together in the rec room off the kitchen, one side for papers and one to sleep, it`s pretty big for a little guy. He comes and goes as he wishes and sleeps in either one through the day but at night he is in the office for reasons previously stated.

Our Werli [alias Kodi] is a very good puppy that is progressing in development just fine and maybe I shouldn't have posted this problem because it isn`t of major significance. I just thought others could read with some interest.

You mention potty pad, do you know of a place on the internet that I can look for this?


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

kathyc said:


> That`s a nice set up. Your big crate is just like ours, other than we have 4 large crates 2 put together in the office and another 2 large crates together in the rec room off the kitchen, one side for papers and one to sleep, it`s pretty big for a little guy. He comes and goes as he wishes and sleeps in either one through the day but at night he is in the office for reasons previously stated.
> 
> Our Werli [alias Kodi] is a very good puppy that is progressing in development just fine and maybe I shouldn't have posted this problem because it isn`t of major significance. I just thought others could read with some interest.
> 
> You mention potty pad, do you know of a place on the internet that I can look for this?


Yeah, most people don't post with a "problem" if they aren't looking for ideas.

Two final thoughts from me. Even though you have the two crates, Werli is CLEARLY telling you that this is too close for comfort in terms of pottying. That should tell you something. It probably means you should honor that need by either training him to ONLY go outside. (which means being there for him as many times per day and night as needed) or arrange some way of confining him where he doesn't worry about peeing close to his bed.

Second, you, yourself have said a number of times how different Werli is from your other dogs. No matter how much experience you have with dogs in general, there are BIG difference between little companion type dogs and large breed dogs... ESPECIALLY the independent, think-for-themselves northern breeds. It's actually kind of unusual to see someone choose both types, if they've really looked into the breeds, just because their temperament, way of thinking and needs are SO different. But in the long run, if you want to do what's best for Werli, you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that there is more than a size difference between your dogs... Werli is, temperamentally, a VERY different kind of animal. Yes, "dogs are dogs" and have some basic similarities, but any experienced trainer will tell you that it's NOT "one size fits all" when training dogs... even two of the same breed, let alone two as dis-similar as a Husky and a Havanese. You certainly can get to the same end-point with both, but the journey is bound to be different!


----------



## kathyc (Mar 7, 2013)

krandall said:


> Yeah, most people don't post with a "problem" if they aren't looking for ideas.
> 
> Two final thoughts from me. Even though you have the two crates, Werli is CLEARLY telling you that this is too close for comfort in terms of pottying. That should tell you something. It probably means you should honor that need by either training him to ONLY go outside. (which means being there for him as many times per day and night as needed) or arrange some way of confining him where he doesn't worry about peeing close to his bed.
> 
> Second, you, yourself have said a number of times how different Werli is from your other dogs. No matter how much experience you have with dogs in general, there are BIG difference between little companion type dogs and large breed dogs... ESPECIALLY the independent, think-for-themselves northern breeds. It's actually kind of unusual to see someone choose both types, if they've really looked into the breeds, just because their temperament, way of thinking and needs are SO different. But in the long run, if you want to do what's best for Werli, you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that there is more than a size difference between your dogs... Werli is, temperamentally, a VERY different kind of animal. Yes, "dogs are dogs" and have some basic similarities, but any experienced trainer will tell you that it's NOT "one size fits all" when training dogs... even two of the same breed, let alone two as dis-similar as a Husky and a Havanese. You certainly can get to the same end-point with both, but the journey is bound to be different!


Please I need no disertation from you as to how to bring up or teach Werli or anything else.

I asked you if you knew where I could get puppy pads, I guess you missed that.

It matters the least to me what you think about whether we have a Hav and a Husky and a Border Collie. IT`S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You need to get over yourself and not try to be a KNOW IT ALL because it`s obvious you are not. Feel free not to post to my threads, then again you won`t have to worry about my threads there won`t be any.

The Internet forums are full of people that want to run everything no matter what forum they are on. I came here to learn a little and see if I could help in some way. It`s obvious it`s a waste of time. Some here are upset if you have a bigger house the they do..some if you don`t have the mix of dogs they approve of, It was a great place to start with but the longer you stay well you know. You have a good time here. Kathy


----------



## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

kathyc said:


> Please I need no disertation from you as to how to bring up or teach Werli or anything else.
> 
> I asked you if you knew where I could get puppy pads, I guess you missed that.
> 
> ...


Wow.

Not sure how you can learn anything if you aren't interested in listening/reading what others have to say.

I sure don't agree with everything I read on this forum, but I do try to always to keep an open mind.

Good luck with Werli, I hope you get it all sorted out.


----------



## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

YIKES!!!!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

kathyc said:


> Please I need no disertation from you as to how to bring up or teach Werli or anything else.
> 
> I asked you if you knew where I could get puppy pads, I guess you missed that.
> 
> ...


The funny thing is, I was sticking up for you with other people. Guess that got me nowhere fast.

As far as puppy pads are concerned, I've never been in a pet store that DIDN'T have them. Even Walmart carries them. Not hard to find.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

misstray said:


> Wow.
> 
> Not sure how you can learn anything if you aren't interested in listening/reading what others have to say.
> 
> ...


Don't even know what I SAID to bring that on... I was TRYING to be the voice of reason, and support her decision to keep the puppy in another room. Egads!:behindsofa:


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

I was getting ready to post that my dog, as a pup had to sleep in the bed with us for the first week as she was too stressed and I had learned that young puppies instinctively cry when separated from their family because they are vulnerable to predators and the elements - so it's possible that a new puppy is truly stressed. I did not use pads and only took her outside to potty - once or twice at night and at least six times during the day. But now she sleeps in her crate in the hallway outside our bedroom. I have gotten over feeling guilty about not having her in my room, but I am a light sleeper and even her rolling over, licking, or maybe an occasional scratch will wake me up. She does not seem to mind one bit. 

That is too bad about the OP, she was getting honest feedback and Karen made a correct observation that large breed working dogs are wired completely differently than small breed companion dogs. Heck, technically you can let German Shepherds, Huskies, collies etc sleep OUTSIDE and many of them would be fine (as long as it's not too cold and they have shelter), but many small breeds cannot tolerate that physically AND mentally/emotionally. It also sounds like the puppy really dislikes going near where he sleeps. Therefore it shouldn't be a shocking and offensive suggestion to move the puppy closer to the bedroom and get up at night to let the puppy out before he becomes so stressed and wound up that he goes inside. 

Too bad it ended this way but I hope the OP figures it out on her own.


----------



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

very sad for someone to come on asking for help then not listen to anything anyone is saying. I hope she figures it all out for Werli's sake...


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by krandall
> Yeah, most people don't post with a "problem" if they aren't looking for ideas.
> 
> ...


I am having a hard time seeing what set you off to attack Karen, her post wasn't vehement nor seemed jealous or spiteful as far as I can tell...

I do feel the need to assure you that financial jealousy and spite is not present in this community, there are quite a few well off individuals here, and quite a few who struggle to make ends meet, but our common interest and love makes us a family no matter what tax bracket each individual is in...

My perception coming into this thread so far is that you seem very irritated with your havanese and have a multitude of priorities that places your dog near the bottom of the list and that in and of itself has evoked some emotional responses from others..protective responses, we are very passionate about our breed and as stated above, havanese have a very strong, inherent desire to be physically near or with their humans 24/7..to be companions, that is their *job*, in the same strong sense that Hounds want to hunt or shepherds want to herd, you could move your puppy to your neighbor's house or across town and it wouldn't change that.

It honestly sounds to me like your life is too busy for this puppy and nobody here can change that, nor can they change the pups' personality or temperament ..I feel sorry for a dog that is alone crying for attention all day, it is sad to me.

Kara


----------



## marlowe'sgirl (Jun 17, 2010)

kathyc said:


> we now think it`s because he has wet on the paper side of his house and is upset because we have noticed he doesn`t like wet papers in his house During the day when he goes into his house to pee he immediately starts to push the wet papers into the corner and when we remove the papers he goes on his way.


I know you quit reading these threads, but I want to point out what you just wrote. Werli gets upset when he pees on his papers. At night, he pees on his papers and starts crying because they're not removed fast enough. This causes the Husky to make a fuss and wake everyone up.

You say you don't want to change anything and just wait for Werli to grow out of it. He should do so, as his bladder gets bigger and he doesn't need to pee at 4am. Until that time, you'll likely be waking up at 4am for awhile. Havs are small dogs with small bladders.

To me, this isn't a quirky anecdote; it's a problem that has the whole house awake at 4am (which would be a MAJOR problem in my house). To us, your description makes it sound like Werli just needs more room. Maybe look into adding an expen to your 2 crate setup. If Werli can get far enough away from his wet papers, perhaps he won't wake you up. Then everyone gets more sleep.


----------



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

krandall said:


> Don't even know what I SAID to bring that on... I was TRYING to be the voice of reason, and support her decision to keep the puppy in another room. Egads!:behindsofa:


... Karen I think Tracy was responding to the original poster, not to you, if I am reading all of this correctly...


----------



## Lola :) (Nov 20, 2012)

Atticus said:


> YIKES!!!!


yikes is right!!!


----------



## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

I sincerely hope KathyC will read these posts. We all want Werli to be a happy little havanese, that is the focus of this forum. Everyone has a different situation and different problems and although we all cannot relate exactly to each others problems, we try. 
As Thumper said, we are all passionate (as I am sure you are) about Havanese and almost everyone I know says Havanese are a Velcro dog breed. You can't take that out of them, unless you mistreat them or ignore them, then they become afraid or aggressive. 
Do try another arrangement with Werli, and let us know how it goes? I think timing is critical here, for Werli and you. Werli can't understand, but you can..good luck and I hope you will stay in touch. There is a wealth of information here.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> ... Karen I think Tracy was responding to the original poster, not to you, if I am reading all of this correctly...


Oh, I know tracy wasn't responding to me. I think she and I actually responded at the same time. I posted, and saw her response had come up just before mine.


----------



## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

None of us are here to judge but will give our opinions when someone asks for advice as that is what they are, in fact, asking for. As everyone else has said, we are just a group of people from all walks and circumstances of life who love our breed and are very adamant about that and that is what bonds us to one another. When someone has not done their due diligence in researching the breed before acquiring one and/or are comparing them with other breeds, especially large breeds, they are in for a rude awakening. You just became owned by a VELCRO dog in life and death. In fact, Bailey's ashes are in a little maghoney box with a plaque saying, Bailey, my Velcro boy, I'll see you on the Rainbow Bridge. He will be buried with me when the time comes. Didn't mean it to be morbid or to be a tear jerker, but that's how we feel about our dogs. Amen!


----------



## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> I sincerely hope KathyC will read these posts. We all want Werli to be a happy little havanese, that is the focus of this forum. Everyone has a different situation and different problems and although we all cannot relate exactly to each others problems, we try.
> As Thumper said, we are all passionate (as I am sure you are) about Havanese and almost everyone I know says Havanese are a Velcro dog breed. You can't take that out of them, unless you mistreat them or ignore them, then they become afraid or aggressive.
> Do try another arrangement with Werli, and let us know how it goes? I think timing is critical here, for Werli and you. Werli can't understand, but you can..good luck and I hope you will stay in touch. There is a wealth of information here.


Very nicely said, I think. Unfortunately, she is not the first member of this forum that has dropped out, because of advice delivery. I sometimes think it is the manner in which the advice is given. With text message, voice tone is inferred and can be misconstrued. As for me, even with multiple resources on Hav's, I was still not prepared about some of their characteristics. And they all "lied" about their energy level! I am so glad this forum is here and I will try not to take constructive criticism personally. I am sure I will be asking more questions soon.


----------

