# Potty training advice needed



## newyorkmom (Nov 23, 2016)

Hi all - 

We're working on potty training our 14-week old Goldie. Her crate is set up inside her ex-pen; overnight the crate door is open so that she can use the wee wee pads. We take her outside around 10:30-11pm and then again at 7am. Right now our plan is to keep the indoor potty option for her to use overnight only. She's been chewing up the pads even if we use the bitter green apple spray so I'm looking for an alternative. For those of you who use the Ugodog, are you happy with it? 

We're typically taking her outside every 2 hours based on trainer's advice but honestly that's not sustainable based on our schedules...
I do know she should go out after eating, after a nap, after play time, etc. Would anyone share a sample daily schedule that you used and worked for you? And how important is it that we keep her on a strict schedule in the early potty training days? For example, some days I can take her out every 2 hours, some days there may be a time where it has to be every 3 hours - does that matter? I'm willing to change my schedule for a few weeks if it means the potty training will be more effective, but can't plan on being available every 2 hours long-term. 

Thanks again in advance!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

newyorkmom said:


> She's been chewing up the pads even if we use the bitter green apple spray so I'm looking for an alternative.


Ricky LOVES the taste of Bitter Apple spray, so that never works for us. In the beginning we tried commercial, pre-scented potty pads and that lasted all of 2 days. Ricky just shredded them.

I know what we did won't work for you, but here goes. We live in a very mild climate area compared to New York. We live in a single family residence with a yard right outside the door. Indoor potty pads and litter boxes just don't make sense in our area, dogs simply go outside. So we trained Ricky to go outside right from the beginning.

In the very beginning we took him outside every 30 minutes! then, as he started to get the hang of it, we gradually increased the time to 2 hours. In between times, we closed off a room (where we spend most of our time), put a plastic industrial tarp on the floor (Home Depot), and watched him like a hawk. It took us almost 4 months to get him 100% reliable. Being that we were first-timers house breaking a dog, we made many mistakes and we would do it more efficiently if there is a second time. Today, Ricky is completely reliable. He tells us when he wants to go outside which is every 2 to 6 hours depending on what he has been eating and drinking and his activity level and how hot it is. At night he sleeps anywhere from 10 to 11 hours without the need for a break, but we take him outside first thing when he gets up in the morning.

I know this doesn't address any of your questions, and others will have better advice for you, but it is just our experience.

Ricky's Popi


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## Barbara Levy (Apr 22, 2016)

newyorkmom said:


> Hi all -
> 
> We're working on potty training our 14-week old Goldie. Her crate is set up inside her ex-pen; overnight the crate door is open so that she can use the wee wee pads. We take her outside around 10:30-11pm and then again at 7am. Right now our plan is to keep the indoor potty option for her to use overnight only. She's been chewing up the pads even if we use the bitter green apple spray so I'm looking for an alternative. For those of you who use the Ugodog, are you happy with it?
> 
> ...


We are very happy with the UGODOG. It has kept Loki from tearing up pads. I have used it from the time I brought him home. We were lucky that Loki was very easy to train and that we have a small backyard. Others will be more informed with house training in a condo. We did leave him for 3 or so from the very beginning. I have dog walkers come in twice a day. At first, I left the him in the expen with the UGODOG. Now I leave him in the family room and kitchen but he access to the UGODOG. He uses it occaisionally during the day - I would say a couple of days a week. That is fine with me and I plan to always give him that option. If we are home, he would much rather go outside.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

I thought I had previously posted a picture of Shama's original ex pen set-up, but I couldn't find any that actually show her training tray. Below are the posts that I did find (with other pictures of the ex pen but no tray). They could give you some ideas. We were very happy with this training tray as there was no chance of Shama accessing the pee pads to chew/shred them:

Amazon.com : Richell Paw Trax Mesh Training Tray, Pink : Richell : Pet Supplies

At first we left her training tray at one end of her ex pen at all times, but eventually we realized that she wasn't using it anymore. She could "hold it" overnight, and she could hold it from when we left at 6 AM until her dog walker came over at 11 AM and again from noon until 4 PM when we got home.

I don't recall at one point the training tray was permanently removed, but after she was spayed, we moved her comfy bed into the ex pen (photo in last post below), and she's been sleeping there since. We don't see her actually in her crate much anymore, although we suspect that she sometimes goes into the crate when she really needs to pee and is waiting for us to take her outside. We're guessing that's a way for her to tell her body to wait just a little longer. (We don't see that behavior often, however, as it doesn't often seem like she is on the brink of peeing . . .)

When we are home with her (evenings, weekends, all summer as we're teachers), we take her outside whenever she asks (by standing by sliding glass door and/or pawing at sliding glass door and/or barking which is rare) and whenever we notice a change in behavior (like getting up after chewing on a bully spring for a long time or getting up after taking a nap or stopping after a crazy play session). She still occasionally has an accident, and that's when we use Nature's Miracle Urine Destroyer:

Amazon.com : Nature's Miracle Urine Destroyer Stain and Residue Eliminator 64oz (.5 Gallon) : Pet Stain Removers : Pet Supplies

Good luck, and can we please see a photo of Goldie? (And be sure to reply to "Was your puppy born in 2016?" post!)

http://www.havaneseforum.com/8-puppy-area/102241-tips-crate.html

http://www.havaneseforum.com/7-training-tips-advice/102305-ex-pen-good-2.html

http://www.havaneseforum.com/8-puppy-area/103721-crate-training-puppy-pads.html

http://www.havaneseforum.com/6-general-discussion/112938-big-girl-doesnt-need-her-xpen-anymore.html


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

newyorkmom said:


> Hi all -
> 
> We're working on potty training our 14-week old Goldie. Her crate is set up inside her ex-pen; overnight the crate door is open so that she can use the wee wee pads. We take her outside around 10:30-11pm and then again at 7am. Right now our plan is to keep the indoor potty option for her to use overnight only. She's been chewing up the pads even if we use the bitter green apple spray so I'm looking for an alternative. For those of you who use the Ugodog, are you happy with it?
> 
> ...


The more intensive and consistent you are with potty training, the faster they learn. Even so, every puppy is different, so there is really no saying how long it will take. My three varied a LOT.

I think putting Bitter Apple on the pee pads is a VERY< VERY bad idea! You ant her to be attracted to the pads, not find them aversive. I use litter boxes in general rather than pee pads, but yes, certainly UgoDog trays are great for the (many) paper chewing Havanese. I personally like to use wood pellets under the grate rather than pee pads for a couple of reasons. The pellets are biodegradable, and don't add to land fill the way pee pads do, and also, I have a very sensitive nose and HATE the smell of wet pee pads. The wood pellets absorb the smell completely as long as you remove any wet litter daily.

If toucan't commit to taking her out as often as necessary for errorless training, for as long as it takes, I would seriously reconsider whether you want the indoor option to be just part time. (which is confusing to the puppy anyway. Why is this place OK to potty some times, but not others? Does that mean that I can potty other places sometimes but not others?) I LOVE the fact that although my dogs ALL prefer to potty outdoors (and they ALL learned to do that on their own, I never worked on it AT ALL) They will also use the litter box if they can't get outdoors. That means that if we need to be out of the house for several hours, or there is a torrential rain or big snow storm, we don't have to worry about how we're going to get them out. They all know they have an acceptable indoor spot to potty, and will use that in a pinch.

One problem with outdoor-only potty training is that it can take some dogs a LONG time to learn how to TELL you they need to go out. So what happens is that YOU become "trained" to their schedule and get them out (hopefully) often enough that they don't have accidents. But for some dogs, it can take FOREVER for them to figure out a method of letting you know. I tried the bells, but Kodi actually found them aversive. I finally took them down because he REFUSED to touch them, and they were just scratching up the wood work. He was almost two when he FINALLY started giving a single bark at the door to go out. Pixel has always scratched on the glass of the french doors to go in or out, and started the very early. Panda is over a year, and still doesn't have a reliable;e signal. She will run to the door and look at me, but that only works if I'm in the room with her. Fortunately, because we have the litter box in the kitchen, if I miss seeing her, she just goes and uses that, rather than having an accident. I suspect that she will eventually figure something out, but until then, this is fine.


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## Hava Novice (Aug 30, 2016)

We never could get Oreo to use an indoor option. He chewed up the wee wee pads, and would only lay on top of the Pet Loo like it was a bed. In the beginning, I kept him confined to his pen when I couldn't have eyes on him, and in his closed crate when I left the house. Within just a couple of days of getting him we left him for 3 hours in the crate. Of course I made sure he had pottied right before I put him in there, and didn't let him guzzle a bunch of water. He never had an accident in his crate, and (I am probably jinxing it) he hasn't had an accident in 3 months. We have recently left him a few times for 4 hours, but I really try to make it home within 3 hours. He has the run of the kitchen and the family room when we are around, but I still put him in his pen when we are leaving the house. I often took him out more frequently than two hours, depending on his activity. In the beginning, we went out after 20 minutes every time he drank water or ate, even if I had taken him out right before.
Good luck!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> In the very beginning we took him outside every 30 minutes! then, as he started to get the hang of it, we gradually increased the time to 2 hours. In between times, we closed off a room (where we spend most of our time), put a plastic industrial tarp on the floor (Home Depot), and watched him like a hawk. It took us almost 4 months to get him 100% reliable. Being that we were first-timers house breaking a dog, we made many mistakes and we would do it more efficiently if there is a second time.
> Ricky's Popi


I think it may also have been harder for you because you were working with a much older puppy, who already had a "history" (and a fairly long one!) of NOT being potty trained. It take less time to do it right the first time. (usually... Panda took a lot longer because she had 2 UTI's which made her avoid the litter box for a LONG time, but I can't blame her for that!)


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## newyorkmom (Nov 23, 2016)

Thank you all...so many things to think about. Definitely no more bitter apple on the pee pads!

So, assuming we take her out every 2 hours or after she's eaten or played or napped, etc., is it ok to put her in the crate if we need to be gone for 3 hours? I'm hesitant to do so - worried that she'll pee in the crate and then we have a big problem. 

Someone mentioned that if we can't commit to taking her out as "often as necessary" then maybe reconsider indoor option. What exactly does "as often as necessary" mean? (I know this sounds naive, but I don't mind admitting I'm still trying to figure it out!)
If we take her out every 2 hours or less, are we training her to only hold it for 2 hours? 

Thank you!


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## Hava Novice (Aug 30, 2016)

newyorkmom said:


> Thank you all...so many things to think about. Definitely no more bitter apple on the pee pads!
> 
> So, assuming we take her out every 2 hours or after she's eaten or played or napped, etc., is it ok to put her in the crate if we need to be gone for 3 hours? I'm hesitant to do so - worried that she'll pee in the crate and then we have a big problem.
> 
> ...


I frequently took Oreo out more than every 2 hours, and it didn't affect his "holding power". I think the key to his learning to hold it is preventing accidents. He learned that he was only to go when we took him out. As I mentioned, we left Oreo in his crate for 3 hours at a time right from the beginning when he was 11 weeks old. We generally only left him once or twice a day, but I always felt comfortable leaving him for up to 3 hours. Again, I made sure he had pottied immediately before putting him in his crate. I also had his crate divided so that he didn't have enough room to find a corner to relieve himself in.
I wish he had gotten the hang of an indoor option, it would have given me a lot more flexibility, not to mention kept me dry during hurricanes! It was a challenge getting my schedule adjusted to his. I would have to plan in advance, know when he was due to be fed, know that he would have to go out about 20 minutes later, and plan accordingly. If we went for a walk, and he came in and drank a bunch of water, we would have to turn around and go back out 20 minutes later. He is now 7 months old, and hasn't had an accident since mid October. I still don't leave him for more than 4 hours at a time. You will get it all figured out, but it is an adjustment for him and you! Good luck!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

newyorkmom said:


> Thank you all...so many things to think about. Definitely no more bitter apple on the pee pads!
> 
> So, assuming we take her out every 2 hours or after she's eaten or played or napped, etc., is it ok to put her in the crate if we need to be gone for 3 hours? I'm hesitant to do so - worried that she'll pee in the crate and then we have a big problem.
> 
> ...


My goal is not to make my dogs "hold it" except in emergency situations. It's not healthy for them. Let's face it. Although we CAN hold our urine longer than is comfortable, we only do it when we don't have a choice. Given the choice, we go find a bathroom and take care of matters. That's what I want for my dogs. I am TOTALLY against making dogs hold it for long periods of time.

That said, 3 hours in a crate is NOT so long that it would make an adult dog suffer in any way. It might be too long for a puppy, though. It depends on the puppy. "as often as necessary" means that, over time, you slowly stretch the time between trips outside out, watching (EYES ON SUPERVISION) for signs that the puppy needs to go. At the first sign, you rush them outside (or to their potty) to do their business. It doesn't take long to have a good idea what is reasonable to expect of your puppy at a certain age. So, if your puppy is currently going 2 hours without accidents or using the pee pads, try 2 hours and 15 minutes. If that works fine for a few days, increase to 2 1/2 hours.

I NEVER expect my dogs to go longer than 4 hours without a chance to potty. (except over night, which is different because their whole metabolism slows down, just like ours) If I am not around to let them out if they ask, and will be gone for longer than that, they have access to their indoor potty, AND I have someone come in to play with them and let them potty outside. My dogs are gated in my office when we're out of the house. If neither of us is going to be home all day, they have their litter box available, but I also have someone come in to play with them in the yard at least once, sometimes twice.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hava Novice said:


> I frequently took Oreo out more than every 2 hours, and it didn't affect his "holding power". I think the key to his learning to hold it is preventing accidents.


I agree with THAT completely!!!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> The pellets are biodegradable, and don't add to land fill the way pee pads do,


:cheer2: Atta girl!

We are fortunate because our local Waste Management gives us three waste rollers for our home - general trash, green waste, and recyclables. I called them about potty pads and they said put them in the recyclables bin. Sometime, on another thread, I will have to tell you about Ricky's battles with the waste bins in the beginning. Too funny.



newyorkmom said:


> What exactly does "as often as necessary" mean? (I know this sounds naive, but I don't mind admitting I'm still trying to figure it out!)
> If we take her out every 2 hours or less, are we training her to only hold it for 2 hours?


"As often as necessary" means as often as you start to see some success. It does not mean that your dog has to go potty every time they go out. You are just giving them opportunity to go. When Ricky was in potty training he often wouldn't go when we took him outside. But we insisted it was NOT an opportunity to play or explore. We gave him 2 or 3 minutes to perform and then it was back in the house, success or not. When there were successes we praised him lavishly and filled him up with his favorite treats. Soon, when we said, "time for potty" he would charge ahead to the door - oh boy, oh boy, maybe some treats! After a while he even tried the "fake potty gambit", squatting or tottering on three legs (he was still a puppy) to make us think he was going potty just to get the treats and praise. So we watched him carefully, fake potty no treat. Today, we still praise him when he goes but treats are no longer necessary.

Another thing, when we did catch Ricky going in his home made ex-pen in the house, we would say "not there", pick him up (you'd be surprised how quickly they can shut down that stream) and carry him outside. Sometimes he had already finished but other times we caught him mid stream and he finished outside........to lavish praise and copious treats!  Same thing goes for dumparoonies too.

Should you leave her in the crate while you are gone? My answer is no, she will just soil herself and then it is bath time. Put the crate, with an open gate, inside the ex-pen. Put a durable plastic cover (Home Depot) under the ex-pen. Put the UGODOG or potty pad or whatever you decide to use inside the ex-pen, not the crate. Havanese dogs are not stupid. She will soon figure out,,,,,,,,,,,I can go in my ex-pen but I won't get any praise or treats OR I can wait for my Momi to come home and take me outside and I will hit the jackpot with praise and yummy treats if I just wait. It only makes sense!

Keep asking questions, we have all been there.

Ricky's Popi


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## Paddington (Feb 15, 2016)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> :cheer2: Atta girl!
> 
> After a while he even tried the "fake potty gambit", squatting or tottering on three legs (he was still a puppy) to make us think he was going potty just to get the treats and praise. So we watched him carefully, fake potty no treat.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Paddington still does this occasionally on his indoor toilet - we call it a "fakey"!


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## Paddington (Feb 15, 2016)

Keep a toilet diary of all the times your pup goes to the toilet (including any accidents). This should help you see patterns and start to be able to predict over time when he/she is likely to need to go.


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## Hava Novice (Aug 30, 2016)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> :cheer2: Atta girl!
> 
> After a while he even tried the "fake potty gambit", squatting or tottering on three legs (he was still a puppy) to make us think he was going potty just to get the treats and praise.
> 
> ...


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