# Another Support Group?



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I am hoping I am not alone in this ....

searching for support group buddies as we GROW out Tillie's BANGS! LOL

Seriously.insane. Poor girl can't see most of the time, yet when I put it in a topknot, the formerly trimmed parts don't QUITE fit! :frusty:
So then she has a topknot with a fringe... LOL

I hope I can tough this out ... I do so love to see her EYES!!

So, anyone else in that horrid 'in between' growing out the bangs!?
or SURVIVED to tell the story and SHOW the pictures!!?

she looks so pitiful ...:doh:


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

I have often thought of growing out Whimsy's too, but I don't think I could deal with putting in a topknot everyday. Wonder how long it takes to grow them out??


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm right with you, Tammy! As Kodi has matured, the hair on his head has gotten silkier, and at the same time heavier (more of it) as a result, the trick of cutting a few bangs in the middle to hold the rest back isn't working any more. Even right after his bangs are cut, the minute he puts his head down, his eyes are covered. This might not be such a big deal, but when he's running agility, I've seen him actually run INTO a weave pole, and I'm sure it's because of his limited vision.

Sooo... we've decided to grow the bangs out. My guys are ADAMANT that they don't want him to have a "sissy" topknot, so I've been putting the longer hair on the sides (the stuff that falls forward so he can't see) in braids at each side. Interestingly, he doesn't rub these the way he did the topknot when we've tried that in the past. 

We're at a bad stage right now, where the front won't stay in the braids, but looks REALLY whacky, but I am DETERMINED to live with it until it grows out. All I have to do is figure out what to do with his hair for the trials we have coming up the fall!:biggrin1:


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Forever. The vet cut off the top of Rosie's hair when she was a year old because of a fungal infection. They haven't been cut again--even when she got the puppy cut. They appear long enough to put up but actually it is the top hair hanging over them. But Rosie can see well. Seems they sorta part in front of her eyes. I comb them back and have put gel on them to keep it that way, but she will shake and rub her head until they are back in front of her face. I figure that if the dog was bred to have hair in its face--then so be it. Does look pretty bad though.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

It takes FOREVER!!! Lizzie had hers cut right before Christmas. They are now about 2 inches long. I just let them hang in her face as putting them up breaks the hair. When I blow her dry I try to make them go back, but the very first part of them always fall forward. The hair on the top of her head just sort of sticks up towards her back. It looks funny on her profile view! I agree with Lucille-that is how they are supposed to be so why fight it??? My husband claims she's blind because she cannot find the frisbee unless she actually sees it fall in front of her!

You won't see Tillie's eyes for awhile. The longer it gets you can wet it and push it back with your hands and see her eyes for about a minute till she rubs all around on the carpet.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

They sell these really tiny non slip clips, they can hold even the finest of hair really well, I found a link for them to show what they look like at amazon

Amazon.com: Scunci No Slip Grip Snap Clips, Assorted Colors, 8 ct.: Beauty

either that, or you could even use some gel or hair spray (wiped from your hand of course) to keep it back out of her eyes.

I know it drives Gucci crazy to have hair in her face..all of our friends are SOO impressed that I can say "Gucci, let me fix your hair" and she will walk up to me and bow her head down, lol....Out of all of her tricks, that one impresses people the most ..go figure.

Kara


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thumper said:


> They sell these really tiny non slip clips, they can hold even the finest of hair really well, I found a link for them to show what they look like at amazon
> 
> Amazon.com: Scunci No Slip Grip Snap Clips, Assorted Colors, 8 ct.: Beauty
> 
> ...


Those might work for around home, but for showing, I can only use small bands that are the same color as his hair.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Ruby has the fringe with the topknot. Her hair (actually all their hair) drives me crazy. I can almost never see their eyes anymore. I'll have to take some pictures. I can certainly commiserate.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Pictures, Pictures, Pictures! 
yes, the bangs/top knot/fringe all drive me NUTS! LOL

maybe I should just shave her HEAD! ha ha ha ound:


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Well, Augie's head hair USED to be so thick he could not see through it - his naturally falls forward no matter if I comb it back as I blow it dry, put it in a topknot wet and then let it go - just wants to go forward. 

The solution to thinning it so they can see through it?? GET A LITTLE HAVANESE BROTHER! ound: Augie's topknot hair is practically nonexistent now, thanks to his ornery little brother. I hope it will grow back because it certainly isn't pretty the way it is.

Here is photo of Augie when he had hair. When it was down like that, he could NOT see.

Finn is at that point now. I will throw something for him to fetch and he won't see it. I am able to kind of give him a topknot now, but he has a layer that hangs over his eyes.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

krandall said:


> Those might work for around home, but for showing, I can only use small bands that are the same color as his hair.


Karen, do you show Kodi in conformation as well as doing the agility and rally?


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I tried the little clips, they stay in but her hair is so thin that the clips fall forward over her face--then she rubs the carpet until she has it out along with part of her hair.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Luciledodd said:


> I tried the little clips, they stay in but her hair is so thin that the clips fall forward over her face--then she rubs the carpet until she has it out along with part of her hair.


Lucile, for Augie's topknot, I have to take a short clump of hair and band it and then take the 'tail' of that clump and add another section behind it and band it again about half inch behind the first band to hold it down; otherwise, his would fall forward over his face as well. Actually, I braid a bit of the first section to try to keep the shorter stragglers (that I accidentally cut while removing the bands long ago) better contained in the topknot.


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> I am hoping I am not alone in this ....
> searching for support group buddies as we GROW out Tillie's BANGS! LOL


Just take a look at my avatar and a picture belove and you will know that you're not alone . Hold on, it will get better I promise! Just this last week I managed to make some (still little to short) top knot for the first time, yes! 
I will never cut his bangs again! Nowadays the most of the time he has a small top knot, but I like his bangs even when they fall over his sweet eyes :biggrin1:.

This is about the stage we are in right now...











motherslittlehelper said:


> Well, Augie's head hair...naturally falls forward no matter if I comb it back as I blow it dry, put it in a topknot wet and then let it go - just wants to go forward.


I have the same 'problem' with Fedja's bangs. But at the moment...I don't find it to be a problem anymore...I'm kind of starting to like it :biggrin1:. He looks so cool and bold with his bangs falling forward lol.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> Karen, do you show Kodi in conformation as well as doing the agility and rally?


No, but you still can't use fancy bows or colored stuff, even in Rally. Here's what the rule book says:

"Dogs whose hair surrounding the eyes, ears or beard interferes with their performance may have their hair tied back with elastic bands or small plain barrettes, or in the manner as they are normally shown in the breed ring."

(which, I suppose, means that Shih Tsu's could be shown with fancy bows, since they DO wear them in the conformation ring too!)


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Sign me up! If you remember, Ceylon's sitter cut his top knot off a few months ago - right when his bangs were getting long enough to tie back! They are finally ALMOST long enough to tie back again, but not quite, so yes, he is also right in that in-between state. I will take a picture when I get home...


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

krandall said:


> No, but you still can't use fancy bows or colored stuff, even in Rally. Here's what the rule book says:
> 
> "Dogs whose hair surrounding the eyes, ears or beard interferes with their performance may have their hair tied back with elastic bands or small plain barrettes, or in the manner as they are normally shown in the breed ring."
> 
> (which, I suppose, means that Shih Tsu's could be shown with fancy bows, since they DO wear them in the conformation ring too!)


OK, so does that mean Augie could only do the braids, or would a plain black-banded topknot be OK? I better get myself a rule book before we sign up and then get DQ'd for something like that. I did not realize they were such sticklers outside of the conformation ring. Do they allow dogs who aren't in full coat? I have never seen a Havanese compete here, either in Rally or Agility, so have no knowledge of how they wear their coats or their head hair. And what about the dogs who are mixed breeds - aren't they allowed to compete now under another designation? So how do they deal with their hair since they wouldn't have any breed standard rules?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

So glad I am not alone!! :whoo:
the hair between her eyes is SOOOO close to ALMOST reaching the band when I put her hair up ... so close... yet so far to go!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> OK, so does that mean Augie could only do the braids, or would a plain black-banded topknot be OK? I better get myself a rule book before we sign up and then get DQ'd for something like that. I did not realize they were such sticklers outside of the conformation ring. Do they allow dogs who aren't in full coat? I have never seen a Havanese compete here, either in Rally or Agility, so have no knowledge of how they wear their coats or their head hair. And what about the dogs who are mixed breeds - aren't they allowed to compete now under another designation? So how do they deal with their hair since they wouldn't have any breed standard rules?


He can wear braids or a topknot... it just has to be done with a plain band or barrette. So he has to leave his cute feathers and beads at home. 
And yes, they can be clipped in a puppy cut if people prefer.

I think they just don't want the cutesy stuff, or stuff that can become a dog's "trademark", so everyone knows, oh, that's so-and-so in the ring. They also don't post the dog's name, just his number and breed, on the score board outside the ring for the same reason. That might help keep the judge from telling all the Golden Retrievers apart, but when you are the only one trialing a Havanese in your area, everyone knows who it is anyway. In APDT, we only have 3 small dogs who compete in our area... Kodi, a JRT and a Dandy Dinmont Terrier. Nobody has ANY trouble telling them apart!:biggrin1:

There is one other person I know of who does AKC Rally with a Hav in this area, but her guy is a black and tan, in a long puppy cut, so he and Kodi don't look much alike either!

Oh, and BTW, they probably wouldn't NQ you... they'd probably make you go take the bow or whatever out of your dog's hair, and then allow you to do your run. It's at the judge's discretion, but I don't think many judges would be so mean as to NQ a person in the "A" class (which means someone who hasn't put a title on a dog) who just doesn't know any better.

As far as mixed breeds are concerned, while AKC now allows them, not all clubs that hold trials do. It varies from one club to another. (based mostly, I think, on whether they typically fill their shows with purebreds:biggrin1 How head hair is handled on a mixed breed is the same as any other long haired "breed"... The owner can put it up if they choose, but it heeds to be fastened with a plain (undecorated) band or barrette. That said, I don't think I've EVER seen a long haired, mixed breed dog that wasn't in a puppy cut. (probably partly because so many of them are poodle crosses, and with that curly hair, WHO would want to deal with it long?!?!? In fact, there are a lot of purebred poodles who compete in Rally and Obedience, and they are almost always in puppy cuts rather than show cuts.

You can download a PDF of the rules and regulations for Obedience and Rally (all in the same book) off the AKC web site. You can also order a bound paperback copy directly from them. If you can get the people at your training center to go in on a group order, they're really cheap... I think about $5 each. That's what we did.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Karen, thank you very much for the information!!  You have brought up points I hadn't considered - very much appreciated! I will definitely check into the rules and regs. And, unlike some fortunate people on the forum :biggrin1:, we don't have a 'training center'. As far as I know, there is only one trainer in our town, so consider myself lucky to have her available to us. There used to be beginning obedience classes offered at Petco and at least one of the dog businesses, but have heard that even they no longer have classes. Our trainer has border collies and, so far, Augie is the only smaller or long-haired dog in the Rally or Agility classes that I have seen. She has had Havs in her beginning obedience classes, but they haven't continued on.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Well, even among your classmates you might be able to put together a group order of rule books. I don't think you needed to order that many at a time. It was basically just our class that got them. (we did the same thing when everyone needed dumbbells)


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> No, but you still can't use fancy bows or colored stuff, even in Rally. Here's what the rule book says:
> 
> "Dogs whose hair surrounding the eyes, ears or beard interferes with their performance may have their hair tied back with elastic bands or small plain barrettes, or in the manner as they are normally shown in the breed ring."
> 
> (which, I suppose, means that Shih Tsu's could be shown with fancy bows, since they DO wear them in the conformation ring too!)


 I have often wondered who makes the rules for showing dogs. I think our Havanese rules for conformation are stupid. The judges want to see their eye's but don't allow top knots. Every one cheats and puts hair spray and rats the bangs. Why do some dogs get bows and others don't? Why are some allowed to have a hair cut and not another ? If I were king of the AKC show I would let Havanese have hair cuts and top knots with bows! 
I braided zoey's bangs for a show and my trainer said don't do it again no one else does it so she rated and sprayed. I think the rating is bad for her thin hair now she has a bunch of breakage. 
Here are two pictures top knot and braids.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm not sure if I'm going to grow Maddies bangs out or not I love them right now! here are some pictures. The first one was about a month ago I love the look now! she looks like a puppy


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

okay, here's today's "pony" I know the correct term would be topknot, BUT my attempts do not look right.... she looks like a unicorn! LOL 
The hair ALMOST fits, but once I losen it up so she doesn't have streched eyes those hairs come out again!
So, HOW do you guys get the top knots looking nice and not like a PONY Tail between her eyes!? LOL


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> I have often wondered who makes the rules for showing dogs. I think our Havanese rules for conformation are stupid. The judges want to see their eye's but don't allow top knots. Every one cheats and puts hair spray and rats the bangs. Why do some dogs get bows and others don't? Why are some allowed to have a hair cut and not another ? If I were king of the AKC show I would let Havanese have hair cuts and top knots with bows!
> I braided zoey's bangs for a show and my trainer said don't do it again no one else does it so she rated and sprayed. I think the rating is bad for her thin hair now she has a bunch of breakage.
> Here are two pictures top knot and braids.


Well, your trainer is wrong that NO ONE does it... there was at least one dog at Westminster last year with braids, and that IS allowed under AKC Havanese breed rules. I think the two braid look on Havs is elegant, and that's where I'm heading with Kodi. Also, for some reason, he doesn't paw at the side braids the way he does a top knot, so he doesn't damage his hair.

I think the important thing is, if you're going to present your dog differently (though within the rules), you need to do it really well, so that the judge remembers your dog in a positive way. That's certainly the way it works in the horse show world.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

krandall said:


> Well, your trainer is wrong that NO ONE does it... there was at least one dog at Westminster last year with braids, and that IS allowed under AKC Havanese breed rules. I think the two braid look on Havs is elegant, and that's where I'm heading with Kodi. Also, for some reason, he doesn't paw at the side braids the way he does a top knot, so he doesn't damage his hair.
> 
> I think the important thing is, if you're going to present your dog differently (though within the rules), you need to do it really well, so that the judge remembers your dog in a positive way. That's certainly the way it works in the horse show world.


And I wonder if that isn't why you don't see it more often. I have tried numerous times to do Augie's that way, and it always ended up looking funky. But if I was showing him, I would really try to go for that look over that poufy/ratted/hair sprayed look. But I suppose that look isn't any more silly looking than what people do to poodles and some of the other breeds. I have often wondered the same thing as Suzi - who has decided what 'look' a breed is to wear in the show ring? I would so prefer to see them well groomed, but in their natural state, not what some human has decided they are to look like. I certainly can't think it is good for the dog to be spraying hair spray around a dog and having them breathe that stuff into their lungs.



TilliesMom said:


> okay, here's today's "pony" I know the correct term would be topknot, BUT my attempts do not look right.... she looks like a unicorn! LOL
> The hair ALMOST fits, but once I losen it up so she doesn't have streched eyes those hairs come out again!
> So, HOW do you guys get the top knots looking nice and not like a PONY Tail between her eyes!? LOL


Oh, Tammy, I know that look well!! We have a little unicorn around here as well. To get all of Finn's hair up and stay up so he can see, his 'pony' is pretty much between his eyes as well!! ound: Hopefully, in a few weeks, we will be able to move it back a bit.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Tammy:

Once Tillie's hair is longer, you can center the topknot a little farther back. Also, you can use baby or little girls' hairclips to help keep the too-short hairs back. Even if Tillie pulls the hairclips out with her paws, it shouldn't damage the hair [much ]

One of the previous posters suggested the scunci no-slip clips. You can find them at any Walmart, Walgreens, or CVS, or even online. http://scunci.com/products.php?pcID=152 and http://scunci.com/products.php?pcID=151&products_id=514 The second group may be for older girls [it is hard to tell from the website.] so you may want to look at them at the store.

Goody also carries some snap barrettes that may hold the shorter hairs in place. There are a number of different styles and colors.

http://www.goody.com/#/searchTags/Barrettes/products/slide-proof_hold_basic_snap_clips

http://www.goody.com/#/grid/girls/products/bright_snap_clips


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The breed club decides the look and presentation of the breed. Here's waht HCA says for Havanese:

:The dog should be shown as naturally as is consistent with good grooming. He may be shown either brushed or corded. His coat should be clean and well conditioned. In mature specimens, the length of the coat may cause it to fall to either side down the back but it should not appear to be artificially parted. The long, untrimmed head furnishings may fall forward over the eyes, naturally and gracefully to either side of the skull, or held in two small braids beginning above the eyes, secured with plain elastic bands. (No ribbons or bows are permitted.)"

I've been told that you shouldn't be able to "feel" product in a Hav's coat when he is showing, which would technically preclude the use of hairspray. But I know most handlers do it, and I couldn't find anything in the rules that says you can't. 

But the braids are most definitely acceptable. My guess is it's like braiding horses to show... it takes lots and LOTS of practice to get it right. I'm getting pretty good at it on Kodi. (and he's been REALLY good about sitting still and letting me practice!!!) But it's VERY different than braiding a horse, where you want the braids very tight, or they fall out the first time the horse moves his neck. On a dog's face, I've found, you have to start just tight enough to keep the hair in, but not VERY tight, or you make them look Chinese!!!ound: I've also found that on Kodi, they look best if I start the braid with the back section first, which gives a nice soft line when you braid the front section in.

And, of course, all of this may get harder as the short stuff in the front grows out, and I'm actually able to get THAT into the braids! In the interim, I'm thinking when it's long enough to reach, but may not stay put, I'll band at the top, braid down, then band at the bottom again. It won't look quite as elegant, but it will stay in!:biggrin1:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> The breed club decides the look and presentation of the breed. Here's waht HCA says for Havanese:
> 
> :The dog should be shown as naturally as is consistent with good grooming. He may be shown either brushed or corded. His coat should be clean and well conditioned. In mature specimens, the length of the coat may cause it to fall to either side down the back but it should not appear to be artificially parted. The long, untrimmed head furnishings may fall forward over the eyes, naturally and gracefully to either side of the skull, or held in two small braids beginning above the eyes, secured with plain elastic bands. (No ribbons or bows are permitted.)"
> 
> ...


 The beautiful oval eyes stretched to tight does look funny ound: Can you take a picture please  I was amazed Zoey would let me braid she tolerates me fussing around. I swear everyone has their own Idea for shows the judges are picking dogs with very high rises (I think to much of a rise. And dogs that the people are flat ironing. I hear the club is complaining and the judges are going to be trained better. The hair spray is a no no. I also see a bunch with hair trims. I also have learned that the judges pick the famous handlers because they get more recognition like pictures in papers . 
I like Tillies poney she would look cute with a bow on it. Or is she a Tom boy? I baught a product called Olive Oil edge control at Sally's it is a superior hold and shine it keeps the little loose hairs up. Its Organic.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

Tillies little pouf looks cute!


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I have tried braiding Rosie's bangs. It has to be done like corn-rows, adding in as you go along. But that takes a dog that will stay still and tolerate it. Rosie will not. I would have to get someone to hold her still to do it, so why bother. Most days her hair parts in front of each eye and I kinda like it. Suzi, life is not fair and you just have to deal with it. I would imagine that as one goes up to the big shows, the judges are well trained and fair. In my opinion the only reason to show if you are not a breeder is because you enjoy doing it. So just go to enjoy and braid Zoey's hair but don't spray it.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Here is Finn's newly put in 'pony'. He is busy rubbing his head with his paws as I type this. I would say we are about in the same place, lengthwise, as Tillie!


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Here's Ceylon's in-between bangs... I need to start trying to tie them back since he is having trouble seeing


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

I sort of really like the mop-top hair in the eyes look! Even when I tried putting Brody's up in a top knot, I still couldn't see his eyes (and he pulled the top knot out fast) because his muzzle hair still sprays up over his eyes. He's a hair beast!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

LOL, yes, my mom was up yesterday and admitted (because she didn't want us to get a "dog" in the first place!) that Tillie was the BEST dog she had ever known ... "except for all that HAIR!" ha ha


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

misstray said:


> I sort of really like the mop-top hair in the eyes look! Even when I tried putting Brody's up in a top knot, I still couldn't see his eyes (and he pulled the top knot out fast) because his muzzle hair still sprays up over his eyes. He's a hair beast!


Haha, how old is Brody? Some dogs don't have that problem (the under-eye hair growing upwards) and some do, but I think that even the ones that do, eventually the hair underneath their eyes starts to weigh itself down enough to where it isn't a problem, if you let it grow out enough. (For the ones that have an issue with that, I heard that chapstick can help a lot, until the under-eye hair grows long enough to weigh itself down naturally...) Cey never had that problem; all I ever have to worry about is his bangs... and, yes, I love the mop-top look as well, but, I can tell that he has trouble seeing by this point.

You probably missed the earlier story about Cey's bangs, but, 3-4 months ago, by the time Cey's bangs finally started to get long enough to tie back (which I was REALLY looking forward to, ever since I got him!), his sitter decided to cut his top knot off entirely, without consulting me. So, his bangs have been growing back ever since... I was so excited to have them long enough to tie back the first time, and now, despite my extreme disappointment about what happened to his bangs earlier, I am starting to get excited about it again


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

I finally broke today! Boo got a puppy cut...At 9 months, I couldn't fight the matting anymore. She is sooooooo hard to comb anyway, and when I'd hit a mat, she'd growl and bite...I couldn't do it to her anymore, and I wasn't willing to fight about it anymore. It was also a fight to get her into a puppy cut, as she'd never experienced the clipper over her entire body before, but now it's gonna be easier for awhile...and maybe when she gets older and loses some of her spunk, we'll try for the long coat again. Daddy's thrilled with her new cut, and being able to see her face, so we're all feeling good today!


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

heatherk said:


> Haha, how old is Brody? Some dogs don't have that problem (the under-eye hair growing upwards) and some do, but I think that even the ones that do, eventually the hair underneath their eyes starts to weigh itself down enough to where it isn't a problem, if you let it grow out enough. (For the ones that have an issue with that, I heard that chapstick can help a lot, until the under-eye hair grows long enough to weigh itself down naturally...) Cey never had that problem; all I ever have to worry about is his bangs... and, yes, I love the mop-top look as well, but, I can tell that he has trouble seeing by this point.
> 
> You probably missed the earlier story about Cey's bangs, but, 3-4 months ago, by the time Cey's bangs finally started to get long enough to tie back (which I was REALLY looking forward to, ever since I got him!), his sitter decided to cut his top knot off entirely, without consulting me. So, his bangs have been growing back ever since... I was so excited to have them long enough to tie back the first time, and now, despite my extreme disappointment about what happened to his bangs earlier, I am starting to get excited about it again


Brody is 7 1/2 months of hair. LOL I'm sure there's a dog under there somewhere. If he starts getting crazy matted soon I'll take him in to get a puppy cut, it's hair and it'll grow back. I love the shaggy look, but I also don't want to stress out over trying to maintain it if it's going to be a bother to maintain while the coat changes (for him and me).

I did see that about Cey's bangs. Amazing what people will do. I'm glad they are about ready to top knot again. Thankfully hair grows back!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

we are SOOOOooo close I can TASTE it! LOL

today I tried a 'topknot' yet again and I got the hair between her eyes a little wet while trying to get it up, I didn't take much hair into the pony and I think i did pretty good this time!! whaddaya think!?
It last about 2 hours before all those stubborn trimmed hairs started popping out of the pony! LOL


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

She looks adorable! I'm always afraid to put it up when it's short, though, for fear of pulling ANY hair out... Kodi's hair on his head is just SO fine.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

ya, the hair on the TOP of her head is also very fine and prone to ripping, but I've found that the closer to the front of her head the hair is more silky and a bit stronger, so I try to keep the pony there in the front if possible. And she is very good about letting me take it out at night as I take it very, very slow being careful not to rip any hair as I'm taking it out. Thankfully she leaves it alone and doesn't scratch at it or anything otherwise I probably would just cut her bangs!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> ya, the hair on the TOP of her head is also very fine and prone to ripping, but I've found that the closer to the front of her head the hair is more silky and a bit stronger, so I try to keep the pony there in the front if possible. And she is very good about letting me take it out at night as I take it very, very slow being careful not to rip any hair as I'm taking it out. Thankfully she leaves it alone and doesn't scratch at it or anything otherwise I probably would just cut her bangs!


That's the problem with Kodi... _I'M_ very careful taking it out... him - not so much.:biggrin1: I don't know why he leaves the side braids alone, but not a pony.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I have been looking at this thread and remembering when I use to try to keep Yogi's hair out of his eyes. When I do topknots or other things with a band I always use band wraps its a pain but it keeps the hair from breaking and the wraps come in colors that match the bands. I gave up last year when we were at training and Yogi laid down and just kept putting his paws on top of his head trying to get it out. It was comic relief and a lesson that teen age dogs are like kids. Hang in there and you may be able to train the hair to stay out of the eyes.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

here's Lizzie's bangs after being cut at Christmashttp://www.havaneseforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38098&stc=1&d=1317077987


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> I have been looking at this thread and remembering when I use to try to keep Yogi's hair out of his eyes. When I do topknots or other things with a band I always use band wraps its a pain but it keeps the hair from breaking and the wraps come in colors that match the bands. I gave up last year when we were at training and Yogi laid down and just kept putting his paws on top of his head trying to get it out. It was comic relief and a lesson that teen age dogs are like kids. Hang in there and you may be able to train the hair to stay out of the eyes.


 I have never heard of a band wrap? Is that a covered rubber band? I cant find any small enough. Do Havanese start growing new hair right above their eyes and forehead. Zoey has a bunch of really short hair I cant imagine its broken hair because it is so short and not anywhere near where the rubber band was.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Suzi said:


> I have never heard of a band wrap? Is that a covered rubber band? I cant find any small enough. Do Havanese start growing new hair right above their eyes and forehead. Zoey has a bunch of really short hair I cant imagine its broken hair because it is so short and not anywhere near where the rubber band was.


I don't know what a band wrap is either, but we buy little teeny bands made for infants and small children. I don't remember the brand name, but we bought a few hundred of them for just a few dollars (picture attached). They are small enough to stay in place even with fine dog hair, and don't slip out unless they aren't in well enough and/or the dog really works to get them out, and, I haven't seen much breakage at least with Cey as long as I cut them out rather than try to unwind them (which is pointless anyway, since they get too stretched out when you unwind them to be useful to use a second time). You are supposed to cut them out every time anyway, to avoid hair breakage, and because they are so incredibly cheap, like less than a penny each or something, it's no big deal to do so . Here's a pic of the bands we have, with a quarter in the pic to show the scale, and a couple pics of Cey now that his bangs are finally long enough to tie back with the bands again


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Suzy, The wraps and bands are the same ones you see at the shows holding beards and mustaches. Basically they are made from rice paper you tear them small for the topknots. I have not bought any in awhile as I have a few hundred left from my Tzu but you can buy them at Paw Marks and the hair bands are maybe 1,000 for $10.000 the vendors at most shows have them for sale also.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

You could also use the wraps that beauticians use when giving permanents. One of those cut in half would work fine.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

LOVE, LOVE LOVEEE Cey's hair-do! SO happy for you that his bangs can go back again! woooooot!! I'm gonna have to try that do in a month or so when Tillie's bangs are long enough!


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

TilliesMom said:


> LOVE, LOVE LOVEEE Cey's hair-do! SO happy for you that his bangs can go back again! woooooot!! I'm gonna have to try that do in a month or so when Tillie's bangs are long enough!


Thanks; I guess that his bangs weren't quite as in-between as I first thought! (Yay!!) That was the first 'do' that I tried since his bangs got cut, and it's real easy to do and works even for shorter bangs since you tie the hair back in stages. I can see his big beautiful brown eyes again, and he even seems to be so glad to be able to see that he hasn't even really been messing it up (too much)!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Heather, that is great his hair has grown out enough so that you can get it back to see his eyes. These Havs have such beautiful eyes - I love seeing them too.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Here is a picture of my boy's bangs. Can't do the pony for my boys, it would be so wrong. I love seeing their eyes. It does take some practice in trimming the bangs, it is an on-going process. 

Sometimes, well most of the time, I will let the hair shag out in a normal state (let the hair fall where it is going to fall) and then trim. I tend to trim with my little cheap thinners framing around the face with a hit and miss snip. A work in process.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

gorgeous boys!! they have such thick looking coats!! thanks for sharing!! I love seeing pics of your boys they are SO handsome!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

You do such a nice job on Dexter and Jack, Linda. They look very 'manly'. I doubt that you get anyone referring to either one as 'she', do you??! :biggrin1: I think my Finn has that look. Augie is just more 'delicate' in appearance. The coloring of your two together reminds me of my two.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

so we've passed that invisible line between being able to LEAVE the bangs down and needing to put them up, SOMEHOW! LOL

This afternoon I was making cinnamon rolls and the kids were doing homework when we heard a SMACK. LOL poor Tillie had run into the table LEG!? ummmmm.... that's never happened before! so I scooped her up and put in a unicorn pony ... I'm slowly getting better, most people don't even NOTICE she has a pony in!! wooooot! GO me!  I just have to get the shorter hairs a little wet and slick it into the pony tail ... it stays for a few hours before they start falling out ... we are getting there!!


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

TilliesMom said:


> so we've passed that invisible line between being able to LEAVE the bangs down and needing to put them up, SOMEHOW! LOL
> 
> This afternoon I was making cinnamon rolls and the kids were doing homework when we heard a SMACK. LOL poor Tillie had run into the table LEG!? ummmmm.... that's never happened before! so I scooped her up and put in a unicorn pony ... I'm slowly getting better, most people don't even NOTICE she has a pony in!! wooooot! GO me!  I just have to get the shorter hairs a little wet and slick it into the pony tail ... it stays for a few hours before they start falling out ... we are getting there!!


Haha, Tammy, that story made me laugh! Seriously, though, I think you should try my method for tying bangs back - just tie back the first little bit, as far as you can get comfortably, then tie that part back with a little bit more, and so on until you are satisfied. Its been days since I posted that last pic of ceys bangs and although I am about to take them out to comb him and refix his hairties, and even though parts of them are sticking up at this point, for the most part, it has all stayed in pretty well (and he can still see!)


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

awesome! I'll have to give it a try... although we still have quite away before I can do anything other than a pony tail between her EYES! ha ha ha
when I get up the courage I'll take pictures!!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I only have Zoey pulled back about a couple days out of the week. I think she is either growing new hair or the rubber bands and maddie are braking her hair. I haven't found bands that hold good that have the protected coating. I use very small clear ones I found at wall greens . I am thinking of trying thin leather I used to tie my hair up with leather when I was a hippie  I think it will work .


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Suzy, The wraps and bands are the same ones you see at the shows holding beards and mustaches. Basically they are made from rice paper you tear them small for the topknots. I have not bought any in awhile as I have a few hundred left from my Tzu but you can buy them at Paw Marks and the hair bands are maybe 1,000 for $10.000 the vendors at most shows have them for sale also.


 Okay I know what your talking about now. In one of your pictures you have a green band is that a covered rubber band.? Not a wrap right? If so it looks small I cant find small.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

heatherk said:


> I don't know what a band wrap is either, but we buy little teeny bands made for infants and small children. I don't remember the brand name, but we bought a few hundred of them for just a few dollars (picture attached). They are small enough to stay in place even with fine dog hair, and don't slip out unless they aren't in well enough and/or the dog really works to get them out, and, I haven't seen much breakage at least with Cey as long as I cut them out rather than try to unwind them (which is pointless anyway, since they get too stretched out when you unwind them to be useful to use a second time). You are supposed to cut them out every time anyway, to avoid hair breakage, and because they are so incredibly cheap, like less than a penny each or something, it's no big deal to do so . Here's a pic of the bands we have, with a quarter in the pic to show the scale, and a couple pics of Cey now that his bangs are finally long enough to tie back with the bands again


 Those are the kind of rubber bands that I have been using they hold really good but I think Zoeys hair is braking. Probably because Maddie and her play so hard.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

OK I did Brody's today. He does NOT like having the hair around his face messed around with so it was a bit of a challenge. Then trying to get pictures to prove he has eyes was a challenge too (I took over a hundred to just get a couple of not so great ones), what with him trying to get the elastics out and refusing to be still. I ended up using two elastics...did one and then pulled it back and tacked it down with more hair farther back. It sort of looks not so great cuz he didn't want to cooperate and I'm not the most artistic person ever!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

awwww, great job Tracy!!! he has EYES!!


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

OMG well I decided I hated his top knot and it didn't stay in longer than an hour, so today I attacked him with scissors, which he didn't like or cooperate with one bit. It's a good thing it's just hair and it grows back. I think I ruined him! I cut a bit, then the hair farther back would flop forward, so I cut more (and what seemed like more and more and more). Poor boy looks like a dork now.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Well I think he is cute, but if you think it is dorky, then he is the cutest dork I have seen. You will like it better after a bath in a few days.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

ha ha ha, awwwww another one bites the dust! Bangs are SO much easier than growing out the hair though!!! and they can SEE!! Don't worry it will grow out and look just fine by next week!!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

okay, we are still hangin' in there... struggling with a do that WORKS though!! sigh ...
I took notes from Tracy and tried doing a doulble pony to hold it all back, because we have been having difficulties keeping the PONY out of her eyes!!? LOL seriously, I give her a top knot, put her down, only to discover now the hair IN the topknot is draping over her eyes! poor girl! and I miss her eyes!!

So, today was bath day and I was able to get her hair back ... not great, but at least she could SEE for our walk this evening!! 
oh and she smells heavenly! I swear I could just drink her all gone when she is freshly bathed!!
so whadaya think??


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I think both your princesses have beautiful eyes. The top knot is great!:clap2:


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

TilliesMom said:


> okay, we are still hangin' in there... struggling with a do that WORKS though!! sigh ...
> I took notes from Tracy and tried doing a doulble pony to hold it all back, because we have been having difficulties keeping the PONY out of her eyes!!? LOL seriously, I give her a top knot, put her down, only to discover now the hair IN the topknot is draping over her eyes! poor girl! and I miss her eyes!!
> 
> So, today was bath day and I was able to get her hair back ... not great, but at least she could SEE for our walk this evening!!
> ...


Such pretty eyes! You did a way better job than I did.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

thanks! I am still learning... I never thought I'd go the topknot route but for some bizarre reason my HUSBAND wants to grow her bangs out?! 

Anywho, thanks for the complements! as you can see the short bangs are nearly long enough! they just to get a bit longer so they stay IN the topknot longer!! 

Tracy, Tillie is VERY co-operative and rarely complains when I do anything to her ... so she actually makes this whole process very easy on me!  :angel:
although try to clip her nails or shave her paw pads and THEN she fights me with everything she has! LOL


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

TilliesMom said:


> okay, we are still hangin' in there... struggling with a do that WORKS though!! sigh ...
> I took notes from Tracy and tried doing a doulble pony to hold it all back, because we have been having difficulties keeping the PONY out of her eyes!!? LOL seriously, I give her a top knot, put her down, only to discover now the hair IN the topknot is draping over her eyes! poor girl! and I miss her eyes!!
> 
> So, today was bath day and I was able to get her hair back ... not great, but at least she could SEE for our walk this evening!!
> ...


Awww that is great! Nice to see their beautiful brown eyes isn't it?


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Great job, Tammy! What a wonderful photo of your daughter and Tillie!


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## dbeech (Jun 16, 2009)

Zoey's bangs are finally long enough to put in a top knot. I really like seeing her eyes. She doesn't seem to be bothered by having her bangs put in a little pony tail holder. The problem is that my other Hav, Riley, pulls the elastic holder out of her hair as soon as he sees that she has it in. I can tell it really bothers him that Zoey has this in her hair. For those of you with two dogs, do you have this problem and what have you done to solve it?


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Thumper said:


> ... They sell these really tiny non slip clips, they can hold even the finest of hair really well, I found a link for them to show what they look like at amazon
> 
> Amazon.com: Scunci No Slip Grip Snap Clips, Assorted Colors, 8 ct.: Beauty


I have similar ones and Bumi hates them, He always takes them out. The only thing he'll leave is an elastic bank (the ones I use for my hair but smaller). 
I cut his bangs when he was 8 months and they are still haven't grown back 100% :brick:


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

LOL, ya, I used similar clips last night thinking it would much easier and it WAS, but as soon as I set her down, she "fluffed" and out flew the 'non-slip' clips! ound:
so, it went the double pony! and it is still in... although the "fringe" bangs have all slipped out, but at least the longer hair is still held back so she can mostly see... LOL

thanks, ya, even I have to admit, my family is pretty darn photogenic... well except for my husband. LOL I blame it on him being raised in Russia, where they don't LEARN to smile pretty for the camera!


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

misstray said:


> OMG well I decided I hated his top knot and it didn't stay in longer than an hour, so today I attacked him with scissors, which he didn't like or cooperate with one bit. It's a good thing it's just hair and it grows back. I think I ruined him! I cut a bit, then the hair farther back would flop forward, so I cut more (and what seemed like more and more and more). Poor boy looks like a dork now.


Once he gets bathed and in a few months, he will look fine. I still use my cheapy little thinners (I am on my 2nd pair, getting ready to purchase the next pair) on Dexter's bangs.

I do a hit and miss snips, going straight into the hair, very rarely will I cut across. Sometimes, I am very particular about which few hairs I am going to cut. Dexter has a bunch of white hair on the top of his head that I trim down, so it does not overflow (it makes him too messy/old). I do the hit/miss snips when the hair starts to fall in his face (I leave a few...I like shaggy). Also do a hit/miss snips that frames the face.

Several pictures of Dexter and his bangs.

Hair grows and you will get better.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Yep, hair grows so I'm not too bothered by it and I can see his pretty lil eyes. Just when I start to think it doesn't look too bad, someone says OMG what did you do to his head? ha ha I like the shaggy look too.


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