# HARD TIMES WITH HEATH~~GRRRRRR



## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Heath is now more than 7 months old, and we are getting frustrated with his lack of progress in housebreaking. He just doesn't get it enough that it's unacceptable to poop inside. I do everything right, take him out constantly, lots of walks, crating/ex-pen, rewards for compliance. Lately he has had accidents if I don't catch it exactly right (poop/ pee is ok & weirdly the last month he spontaneously started using the UGODOG).

But it gets WORSE: both dogs have the runs on and off much of the time, now that it's spring & they're playing in the yard. Heath will eat ANYTHING, esp. dirt. So since yesterday AM Heath has had the WORST diarrhea I have ever seen: he has pooped IN THE CRATE BOTH NIGHTS (he never did that once before), and in the ex-pen. It is EVERYWHERE, and now I'm worried he'll lose all his training.

Of course I put him on rice today. He acts JUST FINE. I feel I'll lose my mind if I have to clean up one more horrific mess. They have both been to the vet, nothing wrong with them. Thanks for letting me VENT.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Amy, Wish I knew what to say... He is still pretty young, so I'm sure it will pass with time!

Ryan


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

I hope things improve, Amy. It is hard during the housebreaking phase. Lincoln was potty trained so quickly that I was expecting the same for Scout. But they have different personalities. It took Scout close to a year to be reliable. Hang in there!


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Amy~ I give Tori FastTrack for a Dog's Life, a daily supplement that contains probiotics and enzymes. She has _NEVER_ had diarrhea or loose stools and I attribute it to this. Although it won't help w/Heath's training, it could possibly help w/the clean up. :hug:


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## Gail C. Abbott (Mar 25, 2009)

Hi Amy,

I have my little Havanese Cierra and 2 Cavaliers. The Cavaliers have had three litters of pups between them so I know about puppy pee and poop!!

I really does take close to a year to fully train a toy breed. I would suggest feeding his last meal around 5:00 pm wait a couple minutes and put him on a lease and walk him until he potties. It seems walking on a lease helps better than just letting them out in the yard. You could do it again right before bed and I don't think you would have any messes in the night. For the day I would keep him more confined (I use the big play pen (x-pen) so you won't be finding and surprises around the house. Try and just be calm and reread some of your original information about potty training. It does help. If he plays in the yard without you constantly watching him he is eating grass, bunny poop etc. and that is what can him sick. He will start doing a lot better in the next few month. Remember what goes in must come out. Good Luck. Gail and Little Cierra


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

I know that it can be frustrating...Todd is almost 11 months old and is just now becoming more reliable about not pooping in the house.
He's been potty trained for months but would go and hide in another room when he had to poop instead of telling me. 
He's finally started running between me and the door when he needs to go out. 
Hopefully he figures it out soon. :hug:


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Thanks, Ryan, Jane, & Eva, for the perspective. There is nothing worse than awakening at dawn 2 days in a row to a crate and a dog completely smeared with poop. It is so demoralising. And the week before to countless accidents. I am just losing it. Biscuit was easy to train, so I am spoiled.

Gail, I have always done exactly as you said. I walk him for up to TWO HOURS after dinner~~no poop. Can you imagine how frustrating that is?!! I'm beside myself. I just hate confining him, but of course I am firm on it, and it hurts Biscuit, too. No play time with Heath. There are times I have to leave the dogs in the yard (so they will poop); it's a small yard, half brick, no other poop in there. I just cannot figure out what it is that's so upsetting . . .but Heath will eat anything, including rocks. Biscuit used to eat cement at this age. Go figure.

OK, sorry for the bitching. . . . .thanks for listening. 

Leslie, I am ordering that Fast Track immediately, thank you so much. ;-)


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Amy,

I am so sorry you are having so much trouble with Heathy. :hug: Unfortunately, potty training our little Havs can be challenging, so hang in there.

As far as upset tummy, another excellent product to try is Optagest. I swear by it and it works every time my guys get an upset tommy. You can also use it every day. Here's the link. http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=0&pf_id=0029598
You can also buy it a Jeffrey's Natural Pet Food in San Francisco. Here's the link to their website. http://www.jeffreysnaturalpetfood.com/stores.html If you can't drive there, give them a call and tell them what the problem is. They are super knowledgeable and helpful.

Good luck,


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Amy, both my boys who are perfectly reliable now had hard times at 7 months and then again at 10months. And then it was like Uh Huh-- now I get it. I think it is just a stage. But the diahrea should be checked out. Have you been to the vet? it may be as simple as changing foods-- Cash who has perfect tootsie rolls could not handle Cal Naturals Lamb even after weeks. This too will pass. I know it can be frustrating.


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## shilohluv (Mar 10, 2009)

I guess I'm not the only one. Shiloh is 6 1/2 months and I don't feel we are any closer to housebreaking than we were a month ago. We have had only a handful of accident free days. On Sunday, we actually had a day when there were no accidents and all potty was done outside. He has an ex-pen with wee-wee pads. 

I think the hardest part for me is watching every move he makes when he is not in his crate or pen. I tend to keep him on the couch or bed because he will not go on them. 

I can't wait for the day when he can roam the house freely and I won't find little puddles or piles everywhere.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Sorry Amy. I understand your frustration with the diarrhea. Bentley has had it so much and some days if I have to pick up another mushy pile and clean another butt....I will scream. I just ordered a probiotic/digestive enzyme from Jeffers as I think the one the vet gave me is useless...I wish I had heard about Leslie's suggestion for Fast Track before I ordered this one. Good luck. It's at least comforting to know we can't expect too much before they are a year old. Evye does wonderful between outside and the Ugodog inside but for some reason she loves to pee on my bedroom carpet. :frusty:


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

juliav said:


> Amy,
> 
> I am so sorry you are having so much trouble with Heathy. :hug: Unfortunately, potty training our little Havs can be challenging, so hang in there.
> 
> ...


Oh I so glad I just saw this post too. That is what I ordered from Jeffers was the Optagest. I am so glad to hear people have had success with it. You made my day.


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## HavaBaloo (Mar 24, 2009)

Sorry to hear your frustration, training is hard. Have you made any changes in his diet? He shouldn't be having diarrhea constantly.

We had some difficulties with Baloo, I would let him run loose and think he peed or pooped and then bed time and we would wake up to a mess. But I soon found out the little guy was too busy playing and not doing his business. Now I take him out on his leash and make sure he does his business then I let him loose to do his crazy run and get his exercise.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

Instead of housebreaking , can you potty-pad-train him?


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Evye's Mom said:


> Oh I so glad I just saw this post too. That is what I ordered from Jeffers was the Optagest. I am so glad to hear people have had success with it. You made my day.


I am glad I could put your mind at ease.  I can't remember who originally recommended it on the forum, but I didn't want to wait as I needed it pronto. So, I went to my local guru (the owner of Jeffrey's) and she gave it high marks, also had it in stock, so the rest is history. I alway buy it from her, as she has it on the shelf all the time. I will have to ask her about Fast Track and if she doesn't carry it, will order a small container just to see.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

FYI~ I changed the link in my post to go directly to the page to order FastTrack online.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Amy, I'm sorry to hear that Heath is giving you such trouble! I hope you can figure out the diarrhea issues, though my only suggestion would be to try giving him some pumpkin to help firm things up. I'm sure the supplements being posted are better, though. As far as the housebreaking thing, how much freedom are you giving Heath? As in for how long is he allowed to have run of a larger room and/or is not in your eyesight? Perhaps the best thing for you would be to start using a tether and anchoring him to you and taking him out when he looks like he needs to go. Not sure if you've tried that yet or not, though.

Hope things get better for you both... hang in there! :hug:


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Amy, I hope things get better with Heath soon. I was thinking that maybe if you changed his food, it would change his schedule a little. I know before I changed Dugan's food, he was all over the place as far as his potty schedule. Now, I can pretty consistently know when he has to go. I may try the suppliment mentioned too since both my boys have soft stools on occassion. I blame it on DH giving too many bites from the kitchen table and too many treats!


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Amy, I am sorry that you are having a difficult time with Heath's potty issues. Hope things improve with the new supplements Leslie suggested.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Dexter still has accidents (pee) once in awhile. I am frustrated when he does this! :frusty: He does very well with the pottying and then all of a sudden............I catch him in that pee position! 

Dexter will be 6 months next Saturday. I know the spot that Dexter will poo, so I don't even give him a chance to even try.....I call him from the area and we go outside soon after and sure enough....he poos.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Oh Amy, I'm so sorry to hear about the diarrhea/housebreaking problems with Heath. I'm no help, as my prior Hav and Maddie were exceptionally easy to train. I was so lucky. But I hope the probiotics you are ordering will help. Also, after trying pumpkin and a very bland diet with no success, sometimes a couple of days of flagyl helps. In any case, I'm sending hugs to you during this frustrating time. :hug:


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

*:frusty:* t*hanks dear Forum pals for letting me vent.
And for your empathy and helpful suggestions.

The reason for the on and off digestive bouts with both dogs is that they eat grass and dirt in the yard, plus the mussels that birds drop into our yard from the Bay. They've been on Innova for ages and it's not the problem.

As Shiloh pointed out, the most frustrating thing about this housebreaking issue w/Heath is that you must watch him every minute. It's wearing. Or else contain him in the ex pen much of the time, and really, at over 10 lbs, that's ridiculous. Otherwise, he is already contained in the kitchen, and only gets the complete run of the house when he has just pooped outside.

I should add, in all honesty, that had I known two would be this much work, I would not have gotten Heath. It was a really romantic notion. It has complicated my life enormously. This is just an FYI for those who are either already really busy, or "older" and less patient, like me (a very youthful 62). Think carefully before you get a second Hav. We DO adore Heathy, fortunately. I'll post some new pix later

Practically the central topic of conversation between DH and me is~~DID HEATH POOP YET? Egads, it's a good thing he is a really really CUTE AND SWEET PUPPY.

Thanks for listening!*


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Amy, I think it's great that you are sharing and venting. You are not alone with the problems you've been having.

*"I guess I'm not the only one. Shiloh is 6 1/2 months and I don't feel we are any closer to housebreaking than we were a month ago. We have had only a handful of accident free days. On Sunday, we actually had a day when there were no accidents and all potty was done outside. He has an ex-pen with wee-wee pads.

I think the hardest part for me is watching every move he makes when he is not in his crate or pen. I tend to keep him on the couch or bed because he will not go on them.

I can't wait for the day when he can roam the house freely and I won't find little puddles or piles everywhere."*

Exactly what I went through with Ricky! It was exhausting and as much as I really wanted another Hav, I could not do the 9-10 week old puppy again so soon. Thankfully, we got Sammy at 7.5 months and Ricky was 8 months at the time, but it took many weeks for them BOTH to then be reliable. I had no friends with toy dogs and all THEIR dogs were housetrained by 3 months!

We still shut doors around here, esp. the one to the basement as one or both will take the opportunity to leave a nice little 'gift' down there for us. :frusty:


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

I gotta say I have read so many threads like this over the past year here that I've pretty much resigned myself to a full year at least of rigorous pee and poop patrol. I figure anything less is a bonus. It's funny because the potty training thing was probably the biggest mental obstacle for me in getting a dog again, since even when they do miraculously get our human rules about where it's OK to leave it, there are still accidents for any number of reasons, and it all goes out the window at some point when they're much older and get confused or can't hold it. Somehow the lovability of these dogs has over-ridden that, but I'm shivering ahead of time thinking about standing out in the cold with her 15 times a day. 

my hope is that I can somehow train the new puppy to prefer outside, but use a litter box or pee pads inside as an alternate. Does Heath have an inside option? You know, my Yorkie came paper trained, and we left her that way, though she would also go outside when we were out already. There was a good spot in the laundry room for it, and despite the messier cleanup, it was so convenient. She used her papers a lot, and I think in her case it was much better than training her for outside, too small, she got cold, etc. And this way she could go ten times a day whenever she needed to, without her human having to jump up and take her out. She rarely had accidents, she knew where her potty was, very smart. I'd do the same here in a heartbeat, but we just don't have a place for it, plus if she gets to be 15 lb, that's a bit more to deal with than the puddles from a 7 lb dog. 

I hope Heath catches on soon. I dread the day I'm having the same woes! I have read some postings where people say one day their Hav just seemed to have a lightbulb moment about it and things got much better from there. Hang in there! Maybe by the time he's grown and you've gotten through it, he's an adult and has settled down, it will all make sense why you got him and things will fall into place.


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## Sammy's Mommy (Mar 8, 2009)

Our Sammy is 16 1/2 mos old now and still not well potty trained. We have only had him 5 mos and since we suspect he came from a mill, I feel he is doing better. DH doesn't always agree. We have a throw rug that seems to be his favorite 'spot', so I have finally convinced that one spot is better than everywhere. We have a smaller one we are going to use for the RV that has rubber backing. We only have carpet in the RV, so wish us well. 
My only frustration with him is that he is continously into eveything. You can see him sit and look around the room looking for something to get into next. He still loves chewing on everything he shouldn't, even though he has all kinds of toys and chews. They do not hold his interest. He loves the Bully Stix but they have such an odor and then his feet and face smell.

Margel


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## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

I am glad I didn't read this when I was doing my dog research. I would have been so intimidated! 
I got Nala as a 2 1/2 year old and she had an accident the first night. She has not had any accidents accept when she has had tummy problems.


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

OMG, Nala is precious! Look at those big eyes...!


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

*Seems like there are lots of variations on this theme. Heath would never go near pee pads, except to shred them. While Biscuit used them beautifully and then transitioned to the outside without a problem. Biscuit was already well out of the ex-pen by this age. Which is so frustrating to us. We just want that stupid ex-pen out of the family room! It's like having a 3 year old in a playpen, too old. And I feel so bad for Heath being stuck in there, because I feel like it retards his development and play.

At least Heath does fine with the pee part, though will pee on the bath rugs & mats in the master bath if allowed in for even a nano second. Funnily enough, there are other bathrooms and other bathrugs upstairs, but the master bath is the one he prefers, the little prince. Weirdly he started using the UGODOG to pee on spontaneously in the family room about a month ago, after using it as a toy shelf for 3 months.Funny, because I was about to throw it out . Glad I didn't!

We're just so spoiled because Biscuit was a breeze to train. And was always totally reliable. I know we'll get there with the little mischief maker. . .we hope. . .good luck to everyone else in the same situation. eace:*


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

Have you considered feeding raw to the boys? It usually makes them poop much less and they are much harder and firmer...it might be worth it to not have the poop frustration...if he does have an accident, it is easy to clean up!


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Sorry, Karla, I'm just not into raw. The time, the expense, the hassle. I'm a kibble kinda gal! Mine actually don't poop very much, only twice a day. Even with runs, he only went 3 times a day . But I imagine that advice will be helpful to someone. Thanks for the thought.


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

Sure, just thought I'd throw it out there....lol!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Amy,
All I can say is just hang in there:hug:
It was a long process with Quincy too. It seemed like all I did was clean up poop and pee spots...but I was kinda a hard ball on Quince. It really sucked at the time,but I took up all rugs. There wasn't even one anywhere.Quince was not allowed on any carpet at all. At the time I felt like he must think I'm a real butt---but you know what? It worked! After what seemed like a lifetime and the bell training it worked! Just keep focusing on the result and you'll one day reach it. Be consistant at all times...and have you thought of bell training? It worked for us. Of course there is a time when they go nuts ringing the bell to "test your reflexes and patience" but if they ring it,out they go:bolt: no matter if they pee or poop or just look at you stupid---out they go. The bells really helped us alot.

Hang in there----Heath is worth it----I know he is!:grouphug:


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Amy R. said:


> Gail, I have always done exactly as you said. I walk him for up to TWO HOURS after dinner~~no poop. Can you imagine how frustrating that is?!! I'm beside myself..but Heath will eat anything, including rocks.


Amy I'm sorry you're going through this. Do you have a behavior specialist (not a dog trainer) near you? I think that would really help.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Thanks, Julie, your story with Quincy is reassuring. I think the bell might drive me crazy, but I know lots of people swear by it. I appreciate your warm encouragement~~yes, he is worth it! ;-)

Jan, I honestly don't think I need a behaviorist. Heath is the happiest, least neurotic dog ever. And the sweetest. I think he just doesn't focus like Biscuit did. He actually seems a lot smarter than B. and is always being distracted by something. I think once he gets it he will REALLY get it. He's about 70 % there, it's just that last big hump. 

Thanks again, everyone. Posting new pix tonite!


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Amy,
I feed my guys Innova too, and they produce firm stools twice a day, so I know food is not your issue. No need to go Raw.

From the sounds of it you are doing everything right. I hear your frustration, but no doubt that smarty-pants Heath will get it one of these days. 

I'm sure it feels worse, since Biscuit trained so easily.
Hang in there.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Boys . . . I raised two of them (human), and they are slow learners when it comes to hygiene ound: Sorry, guys on the forum, it's true!! I have stories :biggrin1:

Jackson had a light bulb go off at six months, but was not totally trained until a year. It was amazing how good he became then - just more mature all around. He will still poop in the house or hold it if he goes off somewhere overnight and gets stressed. 

I'm convinced things will be better for you each month. The loose stools can't be helping, though, because the urge to go is greater with less control. Hopefully the probiotics will help. Many of us feel your pain!!


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

It is tough with our Havs - not quite reliable on a good day. But throw in diarrhea and you can't expect anyone to do things correctly. Lola is 1.75 yrs old and is 99% reliable if she is OK stomach-wise. It was a year of work. Then she developed severe Separation Anxiety. Now she will pee and/or poop when I leave home. Once you get Heath's stomach issues resolved, check to see if he has some SA going on. It creates abnormal behavior. Barking or pottying indoors. Oy.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I am going to say the same thing he is very young . He is a puppy and he does puppy things .. 
Smaller dogs are not as easy to housebreak as larger dogs . One day a light will go on but it does dim now & again .. Be patient ..
Dogs like to dig this is normal some dogs dig more than others . This is just my experience but it seems that Havanese males are little diggers and your dogs may be bored and need some plannd supervised play and activity ..
The one thing I did learn from Cesar and other trainers is that it is important to walk your dogs every day as they have a lot of energy . So play with him take him for a walk around the block even if he is onlly a puppy they like to get out and see the world ..
Be consistent in the potty training same time same place used words like Go potty !!If he does not go bring him in for a while and then try again a little later .. 
Do not give the dog the run of the house or the yard they are just too young .. It takes time .. Enjoy the process it does get better .. When it all comes together then think of what you have accomplished .. 
As to them being on their own - I still have to supervise my dogs and they are past the terrrible twos .. Mischeif is part of the deal .. 
They teach each other stuff as well like you dig here and I will dig over there we will meet in the middle and lets see what we find ..


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Annie, I have to say... every time I see your avatar of Nala, I crack up!! ound: I love her playfulness in that picture! 

Diane, if or when we get another puppy, I will want to train it to paper/pads like you did with your Yorkie. I never thought I'd say that, but with having to go out 20x/day in all kinds of weather and at any hour for months, it was exhausting. I also love the option of having a pad/paper that you can bring with you when you go visiting! I mean, there is always a spot you can leave it and your dog will most likely never want to go elsewhere in another person's home. We did try a grate type of pan when Ricky was 4.5 mths old, but it did not work at all. 

We also bell trained, Julie, and it was the best thing. Sure he drove (and still drives) us crazy, but it was the only way he could tell us he had to go out. Sammy, who we've had for just over 2 yrs. now has refused to even look at the bell, let alone touch it. He's terrified of it! :suspicious: ound: But, we can be anywhere in the house and hear the bell. At this point, we can say "Hold on, Ricky" or "Wait" and we do eventually get to the patio door to let him out, but in the first year, we always, always opened that door when he rang. 

I hope Heath's "runs" have slowed a bit, Amy. It is very tiring and discouraging having to clean that up all the time.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

There is some great things to try like the walking/exercise, the bell, tethering him to you. I am all for keeping him off carpet with gates when he is not in the crate until he gets better. What about a doggie door?
My Harry is getting better, (6 months old) but he still will not always let us know he needs to go out, and he will even hold it while out there, come in and then go :frusty:! but that is usually because I wasn't able to let him into the grass long enough or if the weather is bad. I never let him out of his crate unless I can completely watch him or unless he is off carpet. He still has problems with poo and am considering changing his food again, but he doesn't go in his crate usually. Keep us updated on how he progress'. I think for your sanity keep him off the carpet, or give him his own bath rug to useeace:


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