# Returning Violet



## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

I've deleted my posts in this thread because while I initially thought they might be helpful for anyone trying to decide on getting a puppy, I am embarrassed about my public meltdown here and prefer not to have it hanging out in cyberspace for ever and ever. It seems like there was a more productive thread started on that topic, anyway. Thanks for the kind words, and for the less than kind - well, point taken. Non-judgment is one of at least a few things I need to work on in this life, and I had a couple mirrors turned toward me the last few days. So actually, it's all good. It would be a shame if I didn't learn something from this.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Diane,
I am so very sorry to hear this. You have planned and researched harder than anyone I know, and you can't blame yourself. If you feel you can't handle her, you are doing the most unselfish thing in the world by giving her up. I know you love and adore her, and this was very painful for you to reach this decision. I really admire you for being so strong and wise enough to foresee that it may cause you too much stress in the long run. Perhaps someday your situation will change or there will be another breed that requires less maintenance or even a nice calm adult dog that you can adopt. I wish you the best of luck, and I really enjoyed your contributions to the forum. I hope you pop in and let us know how you are.:hug:
Gina


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Diane, Kudos to you for realizing your limitations and making the best decision for yourself and for Violot. The best thing is, you worked with a good breeder who will take her back and find her a good, forever home. Imagine if that weren't the case.

Someday you might have the ability to fit a dog into your life. I respect you for recognizing that it's just not the right time She taught you a life lesson and that's a good thing. Perhaps that was her purpose in being a part of your life for a time.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Diane, this is a very brave post. And I want to commend you for being so honest with your self. Given what you said I think you are doing the best thing for you and for Violet. A lot of people would have muddled through longer and then it would have been harder to place and train Violet and you would have had more misgivings not matter what you did.

You have made a lot of friends here so even without Violet in the mix, please do check in. As far as I am concerned you are always welcome!

Hugs to you.


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## HavaBaloo (Mar 24, 2009)

Oh Diane, I am so sorry to read this, I can’t imagine how torn up you are and I can feel your heartbreak across the miles. I know how much you prepared for Violet and how much you love your girl, but I do applaud you for recognizing that it isn’t going to work and have the heart to send her back to the breeder.

:hug: to you, stay strong, keep in touch.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Diane, I am very sorry to hear this, but give you lots of credit for doing what is best for you and Violet. I know you will miss her but to make the hard decision and think about what is best for her takes a lot of courage!
No need to leave the forum - please stick around


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Diane you made the correct choice, you know it , and that is all that matters. We all make mistakes in life, but it is what we do about them that matters. Hugs and wags Dave and Molly.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Big bummer. I know that's over simplifying it, but really that is a major bummer.

I hope you can find a way to find simplicity in your life. Really, I've realized since having my children that there is no such thing as "perfect parenting," "never say never," and "worrying won't protect my kids or me."

Good luck Diane, I'm sure this was a really hard decision for you to make and I hope you won't beat yourself up about this for years to come. Shame really is a useless emotion.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Diane I am so sorry for the turmoil you must have gone through to reach this very difficult decision. I commend you for doing what you feel is the ultimate best for both you and Violet. I enjoyed following along with you on your journey and I hope that you will pop back in on the forum from time to time.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I am so sorry Diane. :hug:

This was a tough decision for you,but a decision that sounds like it was best for you. I applaud your post and your insight into yourself. 

Alot of people in the world are not made for pets,or dogs that require alot of attention. I am sad for you,but happy for Violet,as I see alot of people that make a mistake and tredge along and the pet truly suffers.

Maybe someday in the future you could entertain the idea of fostering,or even volunteering at animal shelter etc. because that would let you "love on a pet who needs you" but without the commitment. Just an idea....as I thought it could serve two purposes...fulfill you and the animal.

:hug: Sending you a hug for your hard decision. :hug:


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## mybella (May 16, 2008)

Diane,

:clap2: I give you a lot of credit for realizing your strengths and limitations and working within your own boundaries. Although it is really hard right now in the long run it will be so much better. You will be able to focus on what you need to do and Violet will find a loving home that is able to handle her.

Don't beat yourself! Recognizing a situation and trying to make it better can be so hard to do - but the right thing to do.

Good luck!
Marie


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

Diane I look up to you for doing what you need to do. It is best for you to do what is right for Violet and even though it is hard you are thinking of her as well. I have been in your shoes before and actually returned a cocker spaniel puppy up a long time ago. I was not ready but now I have a house full of dogs and love it. It took me awhile to get my havanese but when I saw Jillee I just new she was the right one...and Betzie well she chose me when I was not even looking for a puppy. You will know when the time is right.Hugs to you!!!


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Well Diane, you know my opinion about this and I see some of the things I told you are reflected in your post. My email is always open for you


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## hedygs (May 23, 2007)

I am so sorry. Please give yourself a hug from me and a little kiss to Violet.


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi Diane,

You are an amazing person! I so admire that though this is a painful decision for you to make you are doing what is best. I did love the idea of you possibly helping out at a shelter some time in the future. I am so glad that I got to know you through the forum and I hope you will keep us all posted as to how you are doing.

Many good thoughts to you!

Holly & Murphy Moe


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Hi Diane~~I think you've done not only the hardest, the bravest , and most noble thing by making this decision, but also truly done the right thing for both you and for Violet. I like your neighbor's approach. . . because I know you went into this with a whole heart and mind, with the very best of intentions. So it's an experience simply to be learned from. It is not a "mistake". You can be proud of what you gave Violet and how she's now better prepared and socialized for her new home. Yes, you will miss her for awhile and feel some sadness, but that will recede. Violet will thrive in a new home, and perhaps with another dog or some children who can give her tons of time, play, energy, and attention. 

You know my thoughts on this, and please feel free to PM me further at any time, now or in the future. I could really sense your distress after you got her, and empathize, because my decision to get Heath wasn't one of my best, and I felt overwhelmed and at times really ambivalent. So I could see the red flags. Somehow we made it work here with Heathy, though it's still crazy. But we already had Biscuit, which made things easier with Heath. And we were madly in love with him from day 1, which definitely helped and motivated. Plus DH, who didn't really want even ONE dog at all, LOL, totally bonded with both, and pitches in a lot, or I simply couldn't do it. 

Please feel free to visit the Forum, as you've made many friends here. I also LOVED Julie's suggestion that you in the future volunteer at an animal shelter or foster a dog~~which would give you that meaningful connection to an animal in need, without the longterm commitment and expense. Sending warmest hugs, amy


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I am so sorry for your loss and I feel your sadness. When I got Dexter, I was running on adrenaline and lots of patience. 

When I got Dexter, I was the main caregiver and it was 24/7 play, eat, poop, pee, run, chewing, sleep, keeping track of things like last pee/poo, how much Dexter was eating, keeping up with the grooming, keeping up with medications, pulling ticks, bathing, keeping up vet visits, emergency vet visits, vomiting, expenses, realizing your lifestyle will change during vacations with pets (some relatives are not use to a dog in their house), accidents everywhere in the house, the constant wear on your body getting up and down, twice a day walks with Dexter, barking, and dealing with dh thinking pup should of been potty trained and should not be nipping at 2 months, all the obedience training, and more...

Lots of work and commitment is required in the care for a puppy that is going to be a new member of the family for the next 15-20 years. 

Your decision to return your pup was a difficult one to make and only you know your limits, you will not be judged by us. A life lesson lesson learned for you and I am so sorry it was so stressful for you. Let us fill your emptiness with support. Please stay around and let us know how you are doing. This board has so many caring members who can offer the support and comfort you will need.


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## Duncan'sMom (Apr 5, 2009)

I know we've talked this over off-line, but I do want to reiterate that I cannot imgaine having to make such a difficult decision.

Big Hugs to you and Violet over the next 2 days!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Diane,
I agree with everyone else that you have decided to do the best thing from both you and Violet. I am sorry it didn't work out for you and I can only imagine what a hard decision this must have been for you. I am sure Violet will end up with a wonderful family who can give her everything she needs. Sending hugs to you both.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Diane, try not to over think this. (Take this as practice session #1 of your life lesson). You're doing the right thing. There's no doubt it's going to be difficult to send Violet back but it's the right thing to do. Don't beat yourself up!!! and try to relax.


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## mimismom (Feb 15, 2009)

Diane, I thought about you today, how I hadn't seen a recent post about little Violet. I am saddened by this news but admire you for making this difficult decision. 

Good luck!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Diane- I am so sorry things didn't work out and I think it is a very hard thing to decide that and also to publicly admit it. I hope at some time, you work things out and you can have a Hav. If not, you are always welcome here and I am sure you can get to playdates or puppy sit. 

Sending hugs your way,
Amanda


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Diane, you sound like you are making hard, but smart choices. Good for you and for Violet!


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Diane, I can't add any other words of wisdom than what's already written above my post. My heart goes out to you and I truly admire your decision, not everyone has the ability to realize what is right or wrong for not only themselves but those involve. I hope the breeder keeps you inform of Violets forever home so you can finally relax once again. Good luck and I will be thinking of you tomorrow.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Diane,
What a hard decision, but you surely do think things through thoroughly...you are doing the right thing. Sending you a hug. And, know that you are going to make someone VERY happy with little Violet and all the training and love you've already poured into her!


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

It is commendable to realize your capabilities and admit your limitations. Your decision is hard, but best for you and Violet.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Bless your heart...*

Each one of us knows what is best for ourselves and our family. Get lots of hugs and support from those who love you.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Diane, there isn't much more I can say besides what everyone else has been saying. I can imagine how difficult it is to realize this situation, but Violet will be just fine. She is very young still and will be quite happy. Know that you have a lot of support here, hon.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Diane, I'm thinking of you and want you to know I admire you for doing the right thing for your lifestyle. Stress is not good and can cause health problems so you are doing the right thing for both you and Violet. Hugs ~ and I hope you get some rest!


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Diane~ My thoughts and feelings have already been expressed through everyone else so, I have nothing more to add, other than to tag on my support for your decision and to send a hug :hug:


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## ls-indy (Apr 10, 2008)

Leslie said:


> Diane~ My thoughts and feelings have already been expressed through everyone else so, I have nothing more to add, other than to tag on my support for your decision and to send a hug :hug:


Ditto..... :hug: and a :grouphug:


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## earfax (Mar 24, 2008)

So sorry as everyone already said you are so strong.


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Diane - you are very brave. Self knowledge does not come easy, and you have done the right thing for you and especially for Violet. She would have sensed your fear and anxiety over her and probably had more behavior issues as she grew older. I suggest you do the things that you couldn't do when you had the puppy - go to the movies at a moment's notice. Visit friends houses! Go for a nice long drive, eat in a restaurant. Time heals all wounds...but a nice dinner out helps.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Diane, I really admire you for realizing early on that this was not right for you. I ignored my gut feeling once waiting much too long and things ended badly. I'm so glad that you are letting her go while she is still young and will easily bond to a new family. Knowing and listening to yourself makes you way ahead of the game. Good luck and please keep in touch - we care!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Awww, Diane...hugs to you.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Diane, if I were you, I wouldn't even think about getting another dog, you need to take care of yourself and find balance and happiness. Sometimes it's more fun to be an aunt rather than the mother, whether it's human or furry kids. Just got back from visiting my angelic niece, whom I was glad not to be the mother of when my poor little sweetheart was running a fever&diarrhea after some vaccination and was crying all night. I sure enjoyed seeing her smile and kisses the next morning though while her poor parents were exhausted from the lack of sleep


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## HavaBaloo (Mar 24, 2009)

:hug: so sorry Diane...stay strong.


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## Perugina (May 28, 2008)

Choosing to give Violet back is a brave and truthful thing to do, however it is still a loss and you are allowed to grieve. Hopefully you will come back here once in awhile and stay in touch with friends who can give you a doggy fix. Best of luck!


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

I think it's really normal to be feeling ambivalent today, and second-guessing your decision. Things are rarely black and white. Be good to yourself, and go get a massage, or something.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I am so sorry Eva.................Please stay very busy around the house (housework), or get out of the house and do something fun! Take a short vacation with your dh. But, do something! Don't sit around wondering if you did the right thing.... only you know what you are able to handle and by returning your pup.....you did the right thing! 

Your pup will be very happy in their new home


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Sooner is always better when returning a puppy but I don't understand why it's costing you "several thousand dollars". Didn't the breeder have a buyback clause in the guarantee?

We always hold the check for a while until we are sure it's going to work out. Even with our best efforts, once in a while it just doesn't work and we'd rather just hand the check back.

We had one returned by a lady who was just starting to do her work from home and it turned out she actually ended up spending more time doing work. She was very much like Petaluna and worried much over the pup not getting attention like she wanted to give. It took us 20 minutes to find a new owner since the wife had to find the husband on the golf course. The first owner made new friends with the new owners and we still hear from both of them.

The other one was a laid back puppy and it looked like it was a good match for the new single, quiet owner, but the pup would not stop barking. We took that one back and a family with two small girls came for a visit thinking about a future litter we were planning. The "barker" immediately bonded with the two little girls........long story short, they took him home and he never barked again. We still have three years of their Christmas pictures on our refrigerator.

Thing usually work out fine for the pups.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Diane-I've read all of your posts and held off on commenting until now. 

With all of the research you did and being on this forum prior to bringing Violet home, I'm quite surprised at your reaction. After reading so many posts on difficulties forum members were having, how could you not expect problems to crop up? Many, many members have stressed over potty training, crying in crates and ex-pens, worry over sleeping, eating, and exercise issues.

I don't understand why you couldn't make it to the grocery store or take a shower, the puppy simply goes into her crate and you leave the house for a bit. Same with laundry, phone calls, working, etc. It really makes me wonder if Violet was reacting to your level of anxiety and stress which in turn was making her more stressed.

I'm upset about this because our Murphy was a rescue who was surrendered after the family had him one week. IMO that's not enough time to devote to something you're going to live with for many years to come. He was turned over filthy, covered in poo and pee and handed over without even food or a toy. I know you didn't do that but I'm just shocked that people get a puppy and don't realize the commitment and work involved prior to the decision to bring a new life into their home. With the internet and so much information readily available there's just no excuse for not knowing.

I wish you well and hope you find peace in your life.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Ann, I know that must have been very difficult for you to post. My hands are shaking as I post this and feel I am taking a big risk as well. I do believe you will find you have many supporters either forthcoming or privately. I do think the decision to return Violet was still a very good decision...but there are several victims in this scenario; the breeder who is also out of alot of money and has put through quite an ordeal herself, but most importantly Violet. I only hope it all turns out well for her.

I just want to let you know I admire your courage to post what you did.


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

Diane,

I remember speaking to you about my litter. You, at that time, told me you were ready for a puppy. You also told me the story about the puppy you almost bought. If I remember correctly, you back out on that one also. 

I too, think it is a shame that you put Violet in that position. You shouldn't try to own a dog in the future because of the fears you have towards the idea of raising a puppy. When something overwhelms you that much, you need to realize it isn't the right thing for you.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Ann and Jennifer,

I think you've stated what lots of people are thinking, but didn't want to say publically.

It's too bad Diane overthought everything and didn't listen to her inner voice.
At least she knows now that it is not for her, and she did pay a price both emotionally and financially.

I feel sorry for her, because she'll never know the joy of owning a Hav.

Remember what Tom said, the pups usually end up fine. Violet, no doubt, will find the right family.

I do feel a little sorry for the breeder, because of all she had to deal with throughout the process, including driving back to pick up the puppy.

But I'm sure all the breeders have stories they could tell!


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

:redface: For what it's worth, I realize I did state something that was incorrect and would like to revoke it. I reread the post and realize now that Diane was not refunded any of the cost of the puppy. In spite, I do feel bad for the breeder.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Ann and those that agree with her post, I *totally* understand where you're coming from and I absolutely agree that dogs (pets in general) shouldn't be treated as disposable objects. 
However, Diane has been going back and forth with the decision of getting a Hav for ca. 2 years I believe. Of course one could say, this in itself should have been a red flag not to get one in the first place. But it was also this very forum that posted encouraging post like 'You will love having a Hav' 'Once you get her, you'll forget all the worries', etc. 
Of course none of us were actually in her shoes and it was ultimately her decision and responsibility to make the right choice for her. 
I know for a fact that Diane isn't the first nor the last one that is returning a dog, which I agree is absolutely unfortunate and ideally shouldn't even had gotten to this point. But it did. If I remember correctly, Ryan got a second Hav at some point (Mango?) and ended up returning it because the reality of having a second was overwhelming for them at that point. 
Diane put in a lot of research and money into this Hav, but wasn't able to pull through. I don't think that Violet will have any 'social damage' from these 3 weeks she spent with Diane. It is *absolutely not* ideal, but not the end of the world for little Violet either. Also, the breeder didn't lose any money as some stated. She keeps the full purchase price minus the $200 she will return Diane once she re-sells the pup.

I don't think it is my business to decide whether Diane should ever own a dog again or not, that's why I suggested it may be better for her to be a dog auntie rather than a dog mom.


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## lcy_pt (Aug 17, 2007)

To clarify my post...I made my comments with nothing personal towards Diane. But since this forum is read by many people that either do not register or post...I felt it was important that the other side of the story was brought up and was glad when Ann did so.

Although we are a very supportive group here and respect Diane's bravery in posting rather than retreating quietly into cyberspace...it would be irresponsible of us who love this breed, or pets in general not to be the devil's advocate on occasion. I certainly wouldn't want someone reading this thread that does/doesn't contribute thinking that it will always be acceptable to return a pet...perhaps increasing the impulse buy scenarios we've all talked about here. 

I'm not saying that we should take off the gloves every time an issue becomes sensitive. But if all we're going to do is hand hold...then what's the point of this forum?

Luv ya all


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

lcy_pt said:


> To clarify my post...I made my comments with nothing personal towards Diane. But since this forum is read by many people that either do not register or post...I felt it was important that the other side of the story was brought up and was glad when Ann did so.
> 
> Although we are a very supportive group here and respect Diane's bravery in posting rather than retreating quietly into cyberspace...it would be irresponsible of us who love this breed, or pets in general not to be the devil's advocate on occasion. I certainly wouldn't want someone reading this thread that does/doesn't contribute thinking that it will always be acceptable to return a pet...perhaps increasing the impulse buy scenarios we've all talked about here.
> 
> ...


Agreed 100%


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I wholeheartedly agree with what Ann and others have said BUT I do think Diane made the best decision for her and Violet, to be honest. Violet will be fine. Even adult dogs get re-homed by breeders and adjust wonderfully for the most part. In time, Violet would have fed off of Diane's stress and reacted to it and might have had some behavior problems.
I would defintely have an issue with a breeder that wouldn't refund my money but turn around and sell the pup for the exact same amount of money they charged me, in essence making $4000 on a $2000 dog! I'd be upset and no way would I have given her all the supplies. Those would have been donated to a shelter or a rescue.

There are all kinds of people in the world and we all have different stengths and capabilities. We don't have human children either after spending many years and tons of $$$. I'm long over it and couldn't imagine having a little human of my own at this point. Yikes! DH and I do, however, pour our love and devotion into our pets. They are not children by any means but they fulfill a need to nurture that suits us just fine. Raising a puppy isn't for everyone. It takes a lot but most of all, it takes the ability to let some things just roll off your back. Yes, I've cleaned up messes, yes I've worried about whether they are happy (especially at first when the "I'd never sell a pup to people who work full time away from home discussion came up). After all is said and done though, I KNOW they are happy and they give us so much joy that all the puppyhood "stuff" is worth it and I'd do it again in a hot second. Once I retire I'd love to take on rescues and special needs pups.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

The whole thing just makes me feels so sad. I am not even sure why. I know puppies are returned, it wasn't meant to be and it happens. And I am sure breeders are accustomed to this and would prefer what Diane did and return it. Also very glad to hear that the pups fair well in their new home environment.

I was glad Ann had the courage to bring it out. I was feeling very emotional about this and I had actually decided to stop reading the posts but I didn't, but probably should have.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I said this off list but will repeat it here. For me there was less surprise in the decision to return Violet than there was in the decision to get her in the first place. I've been here through all the should I/shouldn't I get a puppy discussions of the past period of time and the couple of times where it almost happened but didn't. My thought on the matter is, for whatever reason, you seem to second guess your every decision (at least with regard to a puppy), not trusting yourself to make a right one.

Forgive me, and don't take this personally, but I really don't think getting a puppy would ever be right for you unless something within you changes dramatically. Puppies are little four legged people and they require a lot of care and love and some unpleasant tasks from us. There is no fantasy about it, much like having children in your life, it requires a life-long commitment. 

I'm sure Violet will have a good life with the family she was meant to be with. As for you, I hope you find what you're looking for to make your life feel complete, but that journey begins by looking inward.


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Ok, I feel I have already ticked some people off on the forum in another post, so here goes this one&#8230;. I agree with Ann and Pat and I am upset over this whole issue. However, I am more upset with myself than anyone else, including Diane. I saw the signs in Diane's post, how she was unsure of her feelings and I honestly feel she was seeking what she already knew, she was not ready or ever will be ready to have a dog. This was her third time in picking out a puppy. Yet, she was encouraged by most to keep on going. When Diane posted info concerning Violets teeth, again, I thought Diane, unconsciously was seeking permission and support not to get Violet. Yes, for the money we pay, we should have no deformities, but at this point, I felt that was not the true issue and Diane was instead trying to pull out and I was not sure, if she knew it or if anyone else saw it. Then I chasten myself for I thought I was opinionated and was reading it all wrong. However, instead of telling her how I felt, I chose to ignore it for I did not want to upset more people on the forum with my thoughts again

After Diane returned home with Violet and posted about her showers, no food, lack of sleep, etc. etc. etc. it became even clearer that a big mistake was made. I was not surprise when she posted she was returning Violet and I was so happy that she was. Ann wrote what most of us felt but did not voice because we were afraid it might cause conflict in feelings . I applaud Ann for taking the courage to do so. Many felt the same way.

As far as the breeder is concern, if Diane expressed her thoughts to the breeder the same as she did to the forum, the breeder should have noticed this was not a good choice and pulled out on the sale before it even transpired. However, I feel guilty and Diane good luck to you.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

What it boils down to, for me, is that she's an adult and shouldn't have let herself be led into something she wasn't ready for. Just like I tell my kids, YOU are responsible for your actions and I don't care what anyone else said or tried to talk you into. 

I didn't realize Diane had been on the fence before but if I had I would have responded sooner.

It appears that she's here looking for validation of her decisions. I'm not comfortable offering that.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Scooter's Family said:


> What it boils down to, for me, is that she's an adult and shouldn't have let herself be led into something she wasn't ready for. Just like I tell my kids, YOU are responsible for your actions and I don't care what anyone else said or tried to talk you into.
> 
> I didn't realize Diane had been on the fence before but if I had I would have responded sooner.
> 
> *It appears that she's here looking for validation of her decisions. I'm not comfortable offering that.*


Bold emphasis mine. Ann, I believe in addition to that she's also trying to educate any other person that may go through the same back and forth. I don't know if I had had the guts to do so. 
Everybody makes mistakes, even adults. What seems crystal clear to you and I , may not be as crystal clear to someone else and vice versa. 
I too wish this had never happened, but it did. Returning a dog is never great, but at least in this mess, Violet was returned to a safe, familiar, and loving environment instead of a shelter or rescue which is one of the big reasons people should get a dog from a responsible breeder. Diane made a mistake by getting her, but she did the right thing by returning her early.
I totally understand all of you who are upset about this and post their feelings and thoughts and I think it's the whole point of a public forum.
But I don't see a reason in keeping criticizing someone over and over who publicly admits to having made a big mistake. Anyone who has admitted to making a big mistake knows how vulnerable one becomes and that's when I personally decide to step back with my criticism (unless the person asks for more).


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Diane, we all make mistakes and big ones at that. There are many times I have said things I wish I didn't or did things that I wish I could undo. We all have our human stories, some good, some bad. I feel bad because as they say "I saw the writting on the wall", however, I am sitting here thinking if I voiced what I felt it would have made no difference. I have no bad feelings towards you or anyone else, nor feel this is such a huge trauma to anyone but you. Violet will adapt to anyone who shows her love. We do have to learn by trial and error to become stronger and better people. The boys do fill a big void and I worked very hard raising two puppies, but that was my decision to do so. Diane, I really do wish you the best and hope that you can resolve what is missing. Your DH sounds wonderful and you are very lucky to have such a loving hubby. Take what you learn and grow from it, I have.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

My anger comes from the "poor me" nature of the posts. I don't have patience for that in this situation, I'm sorry if that angers anyone.

I too am very happy that Violet was obtained from a responsible breeder who was quite willing to take the puppy back. No living thing should be part of someone's mid-life crisis.

I didn't feel as though I criticized anyone, I'm sorry if it came across that way.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Ann, I just noticed that in my last post I quoted your post. Only the first part of my post starting with 'Ann, ..., the guts to do so.' was directed toward your post. After that it was just my general opinion, not directed toward your posts in particular. Sorry, I should have made it clearer somehow...


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

For those feeling sorry for the breeder and the puppy:

It's really just part of being a breeder. In spite of our best intentions and those of the puppy buyer, it can't always work out 100% of the time. I feel fortunate that a little less than 1% of our puppies have been taken back, but don't see that any party, us or the buyers, could have done any better than we did.

Any decision has to always be made for the benefit of the puppy on both sides. I can't imagine keeping the money. The reason we started holding checks was because of one of the two instances we had a hard time getting the buyer to take the money back. We can always tear up a check if they won't take it back. Getting paid once for a puppy is enough. Driving a lot of miles for any reason to do with being a breeder is just part of it.

This is NOT a money making process if everything possible is done for the dogs' benefit. Anyone who is trying to make a profit is most likely not supposed to be a breeder.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Of course I have regrets and have hurt people and I'm terribly sorry, my intention wasn't to hurt you and I hope I didn't. I was simply voicing my opinion in a public forum. I also agree that she's a dog and she'll be fine, all she needs is someone to love her and give her the attention she needs.

If your posts help someone else then that would be great. I wish you well Diane.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Ok guys, I think Diane has done enough mea culpas. And will surely learn from this painful experience. And it's also good that some have rather bravely weighed in with criticism. I'm not disputing the criticism at all, or criticizing those who did, and it's good that people are being so honest. Because we all need honestly to explore what getting a Hav really means. It is a huge commitment. It is longterm and expensive. It involves a very complex emotional relationship with the dog. It is much like having a child. i.e. an experience that contains the good and even the euphoric, but also sometimes the bad and the ugly. ;-)

But can we please be more charitable? We do not know Diane. We are all strangers. Obviously, she is struggling right now ~~~as at times, all of us do. Just getting through the day is more challenging for some people, especially those who are highly sensitive and intelligent. We all are built differently. And who among us has never made a choice that didn't work out as we'd envisioned and hoped? Two of the most admirable and wonderful owners on this Forum have returned puppies, and I imagine there are others. Sometimes it isn't meant to be.

Very early on, I sensed this placement simply would not work out for Diane. That it would get worse, not better. I supported her and even encouraged her to be really honest about the situation and to make the decision she made, and sooner rather than later. I felt it was BEST for Violet, as well as for Diane, to end what was obviously an unhappy situation as soon as possible, so that Violet could find a home that was a better fit. I am a different person , and would have coped differently, but I don't believe in piling on someone after the fact. Especially when she has obviously given her best effort and taken full responsiblity for her actions. Gosh,that's just unfair. What's done is done, and it's time to move on. Violet was well cared for and suffered no harm. She is a healthy pup who will thrive.

I agree with Tom that the breeder should give Diane some form of a refund. She only had Violet for, what, 3 weeks?


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

I agree Amy. At the least, the breeder should give Diane the money she will receive from the new family. In no way should she make money off both people on one puppy.


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## Jammies (Apr 4, 2009)

*Diane~ I wish only the best for you. We are all made differently and I hope your spiritually journey takes you to the place that you need to be. You did the right thing for you and for Violet. Stop beating yourself up. Stop judging yourself so harshly. Don't let others judge you. Only God can be our judge. God bless you and take a couple of deep breaths!
Debbie*


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

This is such a hard complicated thread. I too wrote diane in private and encouraged her that if she was not going to keep violet she should send her back quickly so she can be placed easier... I totally understand both sides and I am glad you initiated the other side Ann. I think it will help people who want a puppy on a whim or haven't realized the commitment 

But I also really understand the overwhelming emotions of not being able to handle the commitment. I had total post-pup-dom depression when Cash came home. If it had just been me Cash may have gone back. I had romanticized about how easy Jasper had been to train(total fiction), and Cash was wild, and terrorized Jas and was peeing everywhere, and nipped at us a lot... and in my head did not look like what I expected but looked like a little skunk waddling around. But DH put his foot down "this is not a pair of shoes you can just return" it was the first and last time DH has ever been at all mean. So I knew he meant it. And I grew to love my Cashy to pieces! And he and Jasper have come to terms. But there are times I wonder if everyone including Cash would be happier if we had found a better match for Jasper who does not share his play drive. 

I share this not to hear myself talk...but simply to say that I think Diane did what she needed to do... and Violet will end up with a better life than if she had stayed in such an ambiguous home. 





I


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Well said, Missy. I had a similar experience with Heath. And I agree with your DH, in your and my situations. We had to hang in there and make it work. And it did over time.

And I absolutely agree when you said Violet had "an ambiguous home". That sums it up perfectly. For some reason known only to her, Diane couldn't make the trade-off of all the demanding work and care and stress and time and inconvenience raising a puppy, in exchange for the uncomplicated joys of watching and shaping a puppy's development and getting that unconditional love and pure bond that develops.

Of course, in other cases that we know of, people have made that trade-off, but the dog's personality isn't a fit with another dog, etc. Just not meant to be.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I am just catching up with this thread but was a bit shocked at how many people have said they didn't think it would work out and maybe since this forum is used for education, those who kind of knew in their heart, should maybe sugar coat a post that waiting might be a good idea or pm the person their concerns in the future. While I think the situation is sad, the dog can bounce back, and the breeder can likely find another home. But wouldn't it be nice to help out future owners and dogs? Just another thought


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Yeah, as earlier posted by Maryam, I also returned a hav pup to it's breeder after only 3 days. My situation was totally different though, as we were kinda of guilted into taking Mango by the breeder. 

What happend was that we gave Mango's breeder a deposit for a puppy, and once it was time for Mango #1 to come home, he was found to have a heart murmur at his vet check before leaving the breeder. So, once we found out the breeder would not sell him to us because of the murmur, we were sad and wanted a puppy so badly. So we began to search other breeders and eventually found BEAMER! Then awhile after, the original breeder got in contact with us and told us our new puppy was born and would be good to home in a couple weeks. At this point we felt guilted into taking him and not to mention she had our deposit. Even though we thought it would be hard, we still went ahead with it and got Mango #2. anyhow, long story short... Having a 10 week old puppy in the house with 4 month old Beamer was HELL.. lol So after 3 days of crazyness we thought it was best for all to find Mango #2 a new home. We were also brand new dog owners to.. If it were to happen now, maybe it would be different as we have 2 years of dog experience now.

Anyway, thats the story of Mango #2.. or Max as he was renamed by his new owners down in Georgia.

Ryan


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

This all reminds me of something I learned long ago, happiness is an inside job. We can't buy things, move, get rid of things or make more money to be happy. We can't expect others to make us happy, it's an inside job. Diane, it sounds like you are searching for something and you love the excitement of searching. I understand that feeling.
One thing I know for sure. Having pets and being happy does not mix well if we are too concerned about ourselves and our possessions. I have a DSIL who once told me that you have to love your dog more than your house, lol, ain't that the truth. But really, because they are so helpless we have to really be willing to sacrifice a lot to have pets.....we get a lot back, that's true. BUT we have to be willing to sacrifice a lot!
Mabye Diane is just not willing to make that particular sacrifice............
I guess I'm rambling, sorry........
Carole


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## moxie (Feb 6, 2008)

Can I have Violet??:behindsofa:


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Yeah, that's it! Moxie and Violet!!
Carole


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Amanda, you and Colleen wrote what I was thinking just the other day. As others have said, I too wasn't all that surprised to hear that Violet was going back to her breeder. I am happy that it has worked out in her best interest and I think Diane did a very brave thing, even braver for sticking with this thread and responding to all the comments. Not easy when there are as many opinions as there are forum members! lol 

Amy is the one who 'woke me up' to the fact that many of us, though I can only speak for myself, sometimes sugar coat things, saying 'it will be fine, you'll see' or 'oh, it will pass' and things of that nature. It is true in many cases, often new puppy owners simply get overwhelmed and we do our best to support them with advice and a sympathetic ear. But Amy, you once commented about how so many of us say that getting a second Hav is the "best thing", "easy peasy" or "Oh yes, you must!" when in reality, it isn't always so easy and stress free. You had many challenges with Heath as did Karen with Dugan and others with their 2nd, or 3rd Hav.

I agree with Amanda that it would in fact, be more educational to be honest, sometimes brutally so, in the best interest of all the Havs finding new homes, puppy, rescues or adults. The truth is, that not everyone that joins our forum is meant to own a Hav, nor meant to own more than one. I see all this as very informative. What's done is done and though I may have opinions about it, it doesn't change that fact. Let's learn from this - kind of like learning from KrisE's thread about her issues with Coco. Just to name one, really. 


And those that keep flip flopping, worrying about toys, colors, their living situation and soooooo many trivial things might need to be told that maybe, just maybe they are not meant to own a Havanese - or any puppy, for that matter.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

"And those that keep flip flopping, worrying about toys, colors, their living situation and soooooo many trivial things might need to be told that maybe, just maybe they are not meant to own a Havanese - or any puppy, for that matter."

YUP.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I definitely agree with the last few statements above. I'd also like to add that for everyone who's looking into getting a dog (a Hav or any dog) should have their spouse's 100% approval and help OR realize that you will be doing all the work. That is HARD and difficult for most of us (not that it can't be done, only that it's very stressful).

I've never written this on this forum but a week after Kubrick came (he was crying non-stop when left alone or in the expen or I had to keep an eye on him at all times no matter what = STRESS), I broke down in tears - and I mean REAL tears as in sobbing - and told my husband that we'd have to return him because I couldn't handle it anymore. I took 2 weeks off work to take care of Kubrick when he first arrived and my husband did not so I was the one in charge of doing every single thing all the time (he works very long hours) and I was about to have a nervous breakdown. As soon as the weekend came, he practically threw me out of the house and told me "I'll watch him, you leave." I made all sorts of excuses that he'd have and accident (and he did - my husband was never and never will be as vigilant as I am) and he said "So what? I'll clean it up. Leave!" And that was the BEST thing ever for me. I came back to much more relaxed and just happy to know I wasn't the only one looking after this whining pee and poop machine! Also, when my husband came home he took over puppy-watching duty and playing, etc. His help (not just support - help!) was invaluable in helping me get through puppyhood and I don't think I would have been able to do it alone, honestly. If you're a single person it's different because you're expecting to do everything yourself but if there's someone else in the house it's easy to feel frustrated and/or upset about doing everything - even subconsciously!

I'm only writing this because as far as I know, Diane's husband wasn't helping with the puppy (he did support her in her decision because he knew she wanted it, but he didn't do much or anything to help) and I really believe that's one of the reasons things didn't work out for her - I can just imagine how stressed she was as I was just the same. This is not at all a dig at Diane or her husband! I just think it's an important point to consider when getting a puppy.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

And this doesn't have much to do with this thread but just a general comment, so I wanted to separate it from my last post...

I do think that this forum has a problem with sugar coating but whenever I try to think of a way to fix it, it doesn't work. Why? If you do sugar coat, it makes you feel bad sometimes for perhaps not being 100% honest but if you ARE honest, I've seen it happen multiple times that some other forum members will start with things like: don't be mean, or you're driving people away from the forum, or you guys really like to jump down people's throats, don't you? etc. It makes it very difficult to be completely honest when you're always afraid of causing drama or any kind of issues. I think people just find it easier to say "It'll be okay" rather than go through and try to explain things in the most non-offensive way possible - which can be very difficult a lot of times.

I don't at all mean that we should all be rude and horrible to each other, only that it's very hard to say "don't sugar coat" while expecting others to be okay with that. I really watch what I say around this forum because I don't want to offend anyone (and I KNOW a lot of people here do too as I've spoken to some of you about this - I'm not the only one!) and sometimes that takes such a long time to do that I tend to just not write anything at all. I really hope I've not dug myself into a hole here as I promise I'm not as horribly mean person... I do always state what I mean when I state it - I just think that I am guilty of sugar coating my posts and wanted to write my opinion on that. Not expecting anything - or anyone - to change... just voicing my thoughts.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*on sugar coating...*

I guess the reality is this, they are very, very hard to housetrain compared to larger breeds. I had to keep Riki tethered to me or near me the first six months of his life. He was eager to learn but very sad about being alone and very clingy to me. This was hard on my daughter because she thought the dog would be as interested in her. Riki is my shadow. He likes my daughter and my husband, but he is my dog.

For me having Riki was a bit like having a second child, and I was used to what that took. It was just so different from having a kitten who used the litter box right away and the only thing you had to be careful of was them climbing the sofa or the drapes. A cat can be left home alone and is very independent.

A puppy, especially a havanese puppy, is very dependent. The velcro dog concept is true. The hardest part for us is that we used to take off every weekend to do things, now we stay closer to home or bring the dogs. I don't really like leaving them with other people but if I clipped them it would be easier. So the hardest part of having a havanese has been the need to make sure they are cared for, as they are like little kids for life.

Bringing Daisy home for me was easy as now Riki had someone to play with him and it wasn't always me. Taking them both for walks was easy. The challenge for me was the housetraining again, and Daisy wasn't as eager to learn as Riki was. I also wasn't as vigilant the second time, and I have paid the price for her sometimes going in the house because of it.

We took out our carpets and put in pergo or tile. I don't have any little carpets anywhere in the house.

So the two things I would never sugar coat are the housetraining issues and not being able to leave them for extended periods of time. These two things must be taken into consideration before getting a havanese...and no dog likes to be let alone all day really.

Puppy training is very much like having a baby. I cried when my mother in law left and I had Alana all alone. It is a huge responsibility.

I have a cat who is almost 20 years old. A havanese 5 1/2 and Daisy will turn 5 on the 15th. The first year was a long one due to training and potty training, the last four have flown by. I have had people care for my dogs for a couple of days who wanted one, and another who said she was glad to just be sitting a dog as she had no idea how much work they are.

Before we had Alana, we were off hiking every weekend and a lab would have better fit our lifestyle. I knew I was a stay-at-home mom or that I would work part-time. My husband works close and also helped by bringing the dogs to work with him sometimes. Both of us work within five minutes of our home and can take them for walks if we are at work. The have each other and play and sleep together.

I spend at least 3 hours a week with complete grooming per dog unless you want to pay to have it done or keep in much shorter coats. They have expensive food. Vet bills are crazy and we have had some challenges with an ear infection for Riki and allergies and anal gland issues with Daisy.

For me they are worth every penny, but it was not easy that first year. I'm just glad I had had a child only a few years before because I was used to not getting rest or needing to be there all the time.

And that is my story. My dogs have had hours of training classes, which for me were fun...but again hours and hours of training. Monkeys both of them. Not dogs for people who don't like lots of doggy attention though, the meet and greet every one with wags and kisses.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Last night I was just sick over the responses here, I was in no way attacking anyone. As this is a public forum I decided to put my opinion out there but I'll think twice before doing it again. My response was emotional and maybe that doesn't belong here.

I had meltdowns after our dogs came home and I had help! There were enough threads on here asking for help, explaining problems with all aspects of puppy care, and freak outs over poo/pee, eating, illness, sleeping, etc., that it's easy to get a feel for the day to day care and time involved in having a puppy. I know I come here to check on things before I even call my vet! Unfortunately the fantasies we have in our heads often don't coincide with reality. Who hasn't had that happen in life?


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

These posts are bringing back those old feelings of getting our first puppy. I remember thinking after about 10 days, early one morning, on my second pee run of the night....."what did I get myself into? Is this ever going to be normal again?" So I do understand how hard it can be. I never had children of my own, so this early puppy-hood period was a wake up call for me. 

We have had to rearrange our lives to accommodate the dogs. No staying out for hours (it's my excuse to get back home). No spur of the moment overnight trips. We got used to stepping over toys and chews. Now that Lucy's first year was past (she turns 1 on the 13th) I wouldn't trade the middle of the night trips outside, wiping up the pee puddles, sick doggy mess, daily combing, vet appointments, chewed paperwork, torn coach, for anything!

That being said......it definitely is not for everyone, and it is NOT a therapy tool.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

It is interesting reading everyone's posts about the horrible puppy stage maybe I romanticized most of it and I do have my husband's full involvement (except grooming). But I highly agree about having your spouse's full approval and being on board. I couldn't imagine it any other way. But I really didn't think it was as bad as some of you guys make it. 

Lina- reading your post about honestly crying-thanks, I never did anything like that and really thought when people wrote about it they were over exaggerating and joking. I remember when Dora chewed a second shoe (I went and bought the same pair she chewed earlier that week) was the only time I really wanted to strangle her. I remember putting her in a crate and walking away for a moment cause I knew it was too late, she wouldn't learn anything from me correcting her- she probably ate the shoe 3 hours ago. And I sprayed the house with that horrible tasting stuff that I got all over me and a few weeks later things were better. I needed to be intentional.

I did go through a rough period with Isabelle when we moved but she was between 1-2 years old so past the puppy stage. She just had so much energy and still does. That was probably a case of a breeder matching the wrong puppy with our lifestyle. Honestly, Dash has been an excellent dog from the get go and I swear I can't think of anything that has gotten me flustered with him. Maybe his peeing on the old trash can but. But then I wonder if I just have a personality that is way more easy going, which could very well be true. I also grew up with Goldens so these little dogs don't take nearly as much work. If someone gets sick or chews something they shouldn't have, it isn't the end of the world and I deal with it and having this wonderful forum makes it all a lot easier. I can get 10 different opinions on what has worked and hasn't in a few minutes. Not to make it that simple but I really have never gotten that flustered with the dogs.

P.S. Maybe everyone should send their puppies to me!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I think the puppy stage can be awful when you go through it but I have a selective memory, obviously or I'd not have a second puppy! Same with childbirth, if it was really so awful we'd all be an only child!


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

quoting amanda now...yeah, what she said.

i guess i must be pretty laid back, or the dane "broke" me, but having posh has been easy peasy pudding pie. yes we had to deal with peeing in the house, little tootsie rolls here and there, disabled Polly Pockets with missing legs and arms, growling/dominance issues with my human child, getting over being "dragged" by the leash and learning to walk on it, marking at my in-laws house and in agility class tunnels, etc...but honestly, these things never interrupted my showering or sleeping or working schedule. she's a go with the flow dog and so i take her everywhere, i groom her the way i want to (she just has to deal with it), and if she doesn't like what i'm feeding her, she doesn't eat.

i've learned to deal with her eye goop, poopy butt, and lickies all the time, but mostly i've just enjoyed my dog. i think she's the best. so yeah, maybe it's me, maybe it's posh, and maybe like amanda you should all just send me your puppies. 

really, i think what this thread has taught me, is life is surely only as stressful and full of angst as we are. as the golden palominos sing, "breathe. keep breathing." diane, i sure hope you can find some balance in your life and i am glad you gave violet back to the breeder. i'm assuming you've probably freaked out that breeder, unless she is really really patient/and or eager to place her pups. Meanwhile, i don't mean this to sound snippy/cruel/whatever, but honestly, with all of your intensity in research which bordered on obsession-which i know we here all guilty of, which then turned into sever angst over having a puppy and then climaxed here at not having a puppy and your personal regrets/failures/shame, I know that if you were interested in my photo services I'd be scared. I've had some clients that had some similar worries/obsessions/need for perfection and they have made my life really problematic. i just wanted these folks out of my life as nothing i ever did was really right, although in the same breath they'd tell me how i was such an amazing photographer and then six months later after complaining and complimenting me they'd want to hire me to photography them with their children. i always asked myself, seriously? you want to hire me again? after nothing i did was perfect?

good luck diane. to everyone else, take a chill pill ! love you!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

they say that NOT remembering pain is what allows us humans to go on! or we would never have children, go to the doctors, or risk falling down. 

Ann, please don't feel attacked. I think you turned this into a valuable thread. 

About sugar coating--- I think at first you want to be nurturing and supportive-- getting a puppy is a big responsibility and scary. There have been several times on here not just with Violet that I have said maybe it would be best to re-home. One situation comes ot mind and to the best of my knowlege they still have their hav. It is hard to know what is simply personality and excitement and what are warning signs. 

To me the first warning sign with Violet and Diane was the overbite. and forgive me if I am wrong Diane, It seemed that this shattered your dream of a perfect puppy. And although softly I stated so in that thread. But believe me I know how excited you can become when getting a pup and all reason goes out the window...or you 2nd guess yourself and say, "of course I can handle a pup...why should I be different than others? or I will grow to love her overbite"

Lina, I am glad you shared your story. I always thought of you as another wonder woman like Amanda.>>LOL. I totally agree with needing the help along with the support not only with a puppy but with the grown dog as well...I am so fortunate that Michael does half the work and even helps me bathe them.. I remember taking those two weeks off when both Jasper and Cash came home...man! at the end of the day you needed a break. 

Diane, as you stated earlier in this thread, one of the reasons you shared instead or disappearing was that your story could help others considering this responsibility. I think this is an important thread and thank you for coming forward.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

I've always stated it here and there and Diane, Carolina, and others know through pm's and conversations that I had a horrible first 2 weeks with Pablo. The only 2 reasons I made it through are 1. I was so terribly ashamed to give him back and 2. DH stepped in and helped me wherever he could and like Carolina's DH forced me into taking breaks. Turning to the forum and reading things like 'he's just a puppy' and 'enjoy puppyhood' weren't helping me at all. That being said, every puppy is different and every owner is different. Pablo was only 9 weeks old and was constantly dripping, once he hit the 12 week mark, he suddenly turned into the puppy everyone else seemed to have.
I always repeated myself by telling my story/struggle, but people tend to over-read the bad and indulge in all the good/comforting posts.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

In Diane's case, I felt very deeply in my solar plexus that she was not going to get a puppy, so I was almost shocked when she seemed so committed to doing it. I told myself I was wrong and stepped in to support her in her decision. I was not about to rain on anyone's parade. But I should know better. Those feelings are almost always right. That having been said, would I go back and react differently if it were to play itself out again? No! This was Diane's choice and her life.

As I read all the posts here about how hard it was and how it was made easier by the help many of you received from spouses/significant others, I think I must have been really crazy to take it on. I had no help. There was no relief for me. I had to slog my way through it one day at a time till it got better. Would I have done it any differently in retrospect? No! I love my angels and am mindful of the lives entrusted to my care. Are there days when I would like to chuck it all for a day at the spa? You bettcha.

As for the training aspect of it, I've experienced both ends of the spectrum. Milo was/is very difficult in this arena. Bailey, on the other hand, was almost born trained.


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## Mraymo (Oct 30, 2007)

The reality is everyone is different. We can only give our personal experiences. I posted that I was really stressed before getting Izzy. I was obsessed about picking the "right" puppy. I was so freaked out about health issues after losing my last dog. I know I drove a couple of breeder's crazy with my questions, fears and indecision. I've always had dogs, so I knew that once I had the puppy those things wouldn't matter but I was so afraid of being heartbroken again. I thought somehow I could guarantee that my puppy would be healthy. And yes, I was one of the people that wrote enjoy her being a pup for me it wasn't sugar coating it was just trying to get someone to see things in a different way. For me, personal experience how I perceive things can be so skewed, I can be stressed about little things and not stop to see the good parts of what's going on then all of a sudden that time is gone and I realize the fun parts. I have a son so, for me, having a puppy is not as much of a responsibility. I've learned (and am still learning) many lessons being a human Mom and it is very humbling to realized how much I don't know. We still have a few issues with Izzy some accidents and sometimes growling at people when they take her from me but they're things I can deal with. I think losing Ruby when she was 2 years old made me realize that they aren't here forever and to love and enjoy my pets and just deal with the bad part like we do with humans. Nobody's going to do everything we want them to do and when I accept things as they are instead of trying to force someone else to change I'm better able to deal with life (i'm not saying that we shouldn't work to train our dogs I'm just saying when I accept Izzy does these things and still work on the issues I have more peace and love for her). Ann - Don't beat yourself up, it was just your opinion. Lina - I had the same meltdown when my son was 2 weeks old and my DH's paternity leave ended. Diane - I wish you much happiness and serenity in your life.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I guess I've been very lucky. I don't recall any terrible puppy moments that I need to come clean about. We did have the typical puppy issues of house training and nipping, etc. but for all intents and purposes, it really was fairly easy. Yes, house training was a chore but I always knew that eventually they would get it. It never crossed my mind that they wouldn't but I know some on here have dogs that just haven't gotten it yet. I suppose I am one that sugar coats puppyhood but I did really enjoy it. I am definitely a type B personality though so I didn't stress over too much of it. Carpet can be cleaned or replaced, we had inexpensive furniture at the time that we had intended to replace anyway so when the puppies chewed on the table legs I didn't go ballistic, I just redirected them to appropriate chew toys. Puppy McKenna chewed the stucco in two areas in the back but at some point Steve will repair those......both chewed the corners of the area rug in my living room (which I still have). We'll replace that eventually too. I'm a stickler for keeping my house tidy and clean but not so much about it ever making Interior Design magazine.  
My husband does help with the girls but I do 90% of their care. I feed them, water them, brush them, clean their behinds when necessary, pick up their waste in the yard, take them to the groomer, etc. Steve will do those things if I'm not home but for the most part, I'm the primary caretaker. He's the playmate. 
I do appreciate all of you who do state your opinions. Straight facts and real experiences are the most helpful to potential puppy buyers.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

I wanted to add that Pablo was my first dog. I read a LOT over the years and an extra lot once I joined the forum. I thought I was prepared like no other and that I would manage it well. But the reality was different than my imagination. Thinking back, I stressed over a lot of things, thinking if I didn't correct them instantly, it would become a habit and never disappear. I now know he just went through normal puppyhood phases, but experiencing them first hand for the first time was really different than reading about them.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

I can relate to what Carolina, Missy, and Maryam said about having one's husband help out. We don't have any children, and though my DH was committed to helping me out with our puppy, due to his work schedule and business travel, it was increasingly clear that I was to be the sole caregiver most of the time. I kind of knew that going into this and so I didn't resent it or wasn't frustrated. However, I had my moments and DH gave me a breather. I had to make sure I let him do it his way and not insist he did it my way. Not easy! 


I had to make a huge adjustment and had to give up quite a bit to fulfill my commitment. I stressed over a lot of things. I am not a laid back person and had to have a picture perfect home 24-7. I learned to loosen up, the rest of the house can be picture perfect but the family room was turned into Benji and Lizzie's room and it is now "dog perfect" and I wouldn't have it any other way. 

From my own experience I can say, if one is not single and doesn't expect to care for the dog by oneself, one needs to have all the family members on board and committed. It will be a great advantage when it comes to training and reinforcing the training. However, if one becomes a primary caregiver, expect that things will not go exactly as you planned. I wanted to go by the book, have perfect obedience training, activities etc, but it is unrealisitc as one needs to prioritize different commitments, work, house chores and seek a balance that creates a safe, happy, peaceful home environment for oneself as well as for the dogs. 

I was lucky in having an experienced, caring breeder providing her support and guidance continuously, having me hooked up with her experienced, veteran puppy owner for a mentor, helped me deal with a lot of puppy issues that normally overwhelm the new owners. I think this thread will help would-be owners to carefully evalutate their situation and understand their capacities and limitations. From my own experience, I strongly recommend the following in my correspondence to interested would-be owners. 

1) Get a puppy from a reputable, experienced breeder, meet the breeder in person, convey your expectations, lifestyle and build a rappot and relationship. See if the breeder is willing to do a "trial period". Talk to veteran puppy owners of the same breeder if possible. 

2) As Carolina noted in her post, one needs to have a break and having a good petsitter or boarding facility will lessen one's anxiety and allow one to enjoy the break more in peace and comfort. So the second most important thing is to search for a reliable, caring petsitter and or boarding facility before the puppy comes home. Meet the petsitters, boarding places before your puppy arrives. Select a vet and check if vet techs offer petsitting services. Many do. Boarding can be expensive and one's family or friends cannot be always counted upon. So make this a priority. 


3) Creat a routine that one normally would follow. Start the training for "Separation anxiety", crate and potty from the day the puppy arrives and be consistent. 

I have learned so much from my breeder and the forum. And I often admire so many owners like Amanda, Jeanne, Leslie and others who are involved in the therapy dog activities and are committed to providing stimulating activities for their furballs. I am in awe of the forum members who are taking care of furballs with health issues with so much tenderness and selflessness and then there are members like Laurie who selflessly give much to the rescues and fostering. We all love and provide for our furballs based on our capacity and limitations, but one thing that bonds us together is our unstinting love and commitment to this wonderful breed.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Do I jump in or not????

Here goes....I also worried about Diane getting a puppy. I kept thinking about "How the best laid plans go awry". I think when we humans try to plan the future...and it doen't work like we thought, the disapointment can wreck our lives. I did send a PM to Diane explaining to set her rules and the puppy would learn what was good and got her attention or treats and grow into a great Hav. It's really just like children to me ~ they have accidents and do things wrong ~ and we have to deal with it and love them and care for them. They are puppies and as owners it's our job to train them and that is work and time involved to make them a good family member. I have had dogs all my life and some were quicker to get the potty training than others. To me that is the main thing to work on at first. The other things are easier and fun ~ or I think should be for both dog and humans. I have posted before that Cicero is the first dog DH has loved and helped with. It has been great and so much easier to have someone to share with duties. Neither of us have ever for a minute had the thought that we should not have gotten him. I think that is why he is such a good pet. We are both calm laid back people and not much bothers either of us and that helps with owning a dog, especially during the puppy months.

We are all different. I do think, as Missy said, that when Diane found out about the bite it popped her bubble and I understand. I think I posted then that everyone should be completely happy about their new puppy, especially with what we pay. Nobody should look at their puppy and wish it looked different IMO. Health testing is important...but things can go wrong at 1, 3, 5 years of age and we have to know beforehand that we will love and care for them no matter what.

I guess it is sugar coating in a way when we "feel" something is not right, but we want to encourage someone and tell them "puppyhood will pass." To be honest, I wanted to tell Diane "don't get a dog" because it seemed she was planning 'too much' and had so many questions -- but I could have been wrong!!

Ann, don't feel bad about bringing this to the front. I think it will help new people that are thinking about getting a puppy. I also think it will help us to be more open about informing new people how tough the first 6 months can be. I think it would be great to have a sticky thread "Before you get a puppy...read" and we should all tell the good...and the bad. I have to say that there is nothing about Cicero that I would change -- but I've had other dogs that were harder to deal with!!

Diane, if you are reading, I wish you well and hope you will find a way to deal with your stress. I think you did the right thing for both you and Violet. Try not to overthink and plan so much and just live each day to the fullest.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Diane, everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect, so please don't expect yourself to be. You gave it your best shot, and you did what's best for Violet. I admire your strength for giving her up early. From what I've read, many people have had difficulties with their Hav's as puppies and sometimes still today. Others, seemed to have an easier Hav to deal with, help from others, etc. You can't really predict what type of dog you will end up with and how much time/training it will take until you have your puppy. My Hav was not from a good breeder and had problems from the start. I read books, talked to friends with dogs, etc, and nothing prepared me for how my life would change with a dog. I knew the puppy stage would be difficult, and I was ready for that. The potty training, puppy nipping, etc did not bother me. I did not know that this dog would come to me severely anxious, fearful, aggressive towards kids, dogs and some people, would have severe separation anxiety, would growl/bark at noises in the houses to the point where my DH avoids moving around to not hear it (the list goes on and on). I hung in there because I thought the puppy stage would pass and we could work through the issues. I wasn't as strong as Diane, but keeping him was absolutely the worst decision I could have ever made for my family. I was so attached to him and my kids were so attached to him that I couldn't bear the thought of giving him up. I have probably cried my eyes out at least 30 days over the last 2 years trying to get the courage to give him up, but I couldn't. I probably cried as recently as last month, because it is an ongoing battle. I caused my husband tremendous stress and have strained my marriage. My children and I don't leave as often anymore and have had to completely restructure our lives for Marble. I can't even begin to list the things we used to do and can't do anymore. I am in a constant state of training with him. We're still in obedience classes, and I consult with a trainer. I never give up, but I can tell you that he is more work and more stressful than twin toddlers. He is absolutely the most difficult dog of all the many friends and family I know with dogs. There are many dogs out there who are good with kids, calm, laid back, etc, but he is not one of them. I should have found him a new home early on like Diane, but I was too weak. I think it would have taken a very, very special home to deal with him, but he may have been happier in the long run as well. I hope that you stop blaming yourself, Diane, and find some peace. There are just some things you can't fully predict. And I hope that this post will help others who may be on the fence. Good luck!
Gina


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Gina,
As much as you and your children love the dog, what you are describing is not good for a marriage and family.
Life is too short to be constantly stressed because of a dog.

You seem to be working very hard to have him be a dog you can all live with and enjoy.
Since this is not working, perhaps you should place him in rescue for your sanity and the good of your family. I know it would be very hard, but you could be using all that energy on another dog that would respond well and be a delightful furfriend. 

And maybe the dog would do a little better in a family with no kids or even with a single person.

People will probably jump on me for saying this, but I hope you re-consider rehoming him and later, carefully, find a dog that is a better fit.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

luv2havs said:


> Gina,
> As much as you and your children love the dog, what you are describing is not good for a marriage and family.
> Life is too short to be constantly stressed because of a dog.
> 
> ...


I respect your opinion, and you are right. From an objective point of view, I should have done it long ago. It is something I still think about, hence the tears. I'm not strong enough to do that at this point, and I still keep trying.
My children have taken on extra responsibilities and understand they have given up many things for him, and they still have begged me not to give him away. I have him in obedience around other dogs trying to get him used to them (with the trainers help). My goal is to get him used to dogs so I can put him in daycare once a week so he'll be happy playing. That could relieve a lot of stress and give the kids and I a chance to do more. This doggy daycare has cameras so you can check in on them. Of course, this is only one of the problems, but I feel like the more we tackle, the more obedient and confident he will be. I'm also waiting for my Petagree to arrive to help with excessive barking. 
Gina


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Nan, I agree with you.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

I want to add, I didn't want to steal Diane's thread. I just want people to know that getting a dog can mean far more than basic puppy problems, and you can't always know that ahead of time. 
GIna


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Thank you for posting that Gina, I think it goes along with the theme of this thread. ((hugs))


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I totally and completely agree with Nan on this one, Gina. I've seen you struggle with Marble and honestly I think he'd be much better off in a home without children and I honestly think that you've done your best and have worked really hard, so this is not a dig at you in any way. I do hope you consider rehoming him. I know you're completely and 100% attached to him, but just imagine how much easier his life will be without the stress factors in your home that likely cause him to act out. If you won't do it for your sake, then think about Marble in this case.

I am NOT at all saying any of this is your fault or that your home is bad for dogs - only that it might not be the best match for Marble.

And I promise I'm not judging you - and that I will not judge you whichever way you choose to go with this. Just keep in mind that this might be what's best for Marble and for your family. I wish you all the best, truly. :hug:


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Lina said:


> I totally and completely agree with Nan on this one, Gina. I've seen you struggle with Marble and honestly I think he'd be much better off in a home without children and I honestly think that you've done your best and have worked really hard, so this is not a dig at you in any way. I do hope you consider rehoming him. I know you're completely and 100% attached to him, but just imagine how much easier his life will be without the stress factors in your home that likely cause him to act out. If you won't do it for your sake, then think about Marble in this case.
> 
> I am NOT at all saying any of this is your fault or that your home is bad for dogs - only that it might not be the best match for Marble.
> 
> And I promise I'm not judging you - and that I will not judge you whichever way you choose to go with this. Just keep in mind that this might be what's best for Marble and for your family. I wish you all the best, truly. :hug:


Lina, you are all right, and I don't think your judging me in any way. Your post is very kind - thank you! Rehoming is still something I consider, but I keep hoping for some progress here. He is absolutely wonderful, loving and attached to my kids. He is just not good around other kids that try to pet him or run near him, especially small ones. Mine are older, so this applies when we are out walking, at a park, etc. or if someone with young kids visits. It's scary, though, because I have to worry about him biting.
Gina


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## PepperToast (Oct 27, 2008)

Diane,

If you read this (and I hope you don't quite honestly), I am sorry things didn't work out for you and Violet. I admire your honesty and yes, I think you gave too much info and opened yourself up too much for the benefit of others because... boy are you sure being kicked while you are down. Intended or not... but hey when people are still writing something like, 'I knew Diane would not/should not go through with it because she..." YIKES!!!!

I think a new thread needs to be started about regrets about new puppies and the life altering creatures they are. That is a REALLY valid discussion but... back off the lady. Now it just seems like kicking the sorry, cowering dog.

Meeka


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I did want to add for those of you, like Amanda and Susan, who said that it wasn't that hard for you that I do think (though of course I'm not sure) that not ever having had a dog before was also the problem - at least for me. I had done all the reading and theoretically understood everything, but I had never dealt with a dog of my own - not in my whole life. So I think that also contributed to the stress. It took my husband saying a million times how EASY Kubrick was to potty train (and he really was!) for me to have it sink it in that 1 or 2 accidents in one month was not the end of the world. Also the fact that I am for sure a type A personality and had issues just letting things go and taking these things personally - I still do sometimes - added to the stress. Having these two dogs has taught me SO MUCH about just going with the flow! I'm not saying that I've changed completely, only that things that used to really get to me don't as much anymore. Not by a long shot.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I was very ready to get a dog when I got Kodi. I lost my two older dogs and the house just seemed so quiet and empty (even with 5 cats). Then I got MHS and got Shelby. I've told the story before. DH found her thru and ad. I saw her picture and she was adorable, but so are all puppies. We went to pick her up. She is very sweet and feisty, and I almost called the breeder several times on the way home so I could return her. I couldn't imagine why I would want another puppy, starting all over with potty training, etc. And, it took me a long time to fall in love with her. But I did and she is my sweet little girl. If I would have given her back, I would have missed all her dancing, kisses, and chasing her around my yard at 11pm to get her to come inside.

But, you really have to know yourself. It is a big adjustment to make in your life and a lifetime of responsibility.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

PepperToast said:


> Diane,
> 
> If you read this (and I hope you don't quite honestly), I am sorry things didn't work out for you and Violet. I admire your honesty and yes, I think you gave too much info and opened yourself up too much for the benefit of others because... boy are you sure being kicked while you are down. Intended or not... but hey when people are still writing something like, 'I knew Diane would not/should not go through with it because she..." YIKES!!!!
> 
> ...


Exactly the kind of response as to why everything gets sugar coated around here. No one is kicking her when she's down Meeka, and I don't think Diane feels that way at all. We're trying to learn from each other and that is all.


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## PepperToast (Oct 27, 2008)

What I am objecting to Lina, is that people keep talking about why Diane failed and not why, in general, it is sooooo hard to have a new puppy (or not) and why people fail. 

Some people are still talking about her failure specifically and she, in my interpretation of her posts, is still is defending herself which I find sad and awful. 

I don't want to sugar coat anything at all. There is no need to sugar coat the challenges of a new puppy. That is reality. I just think people can now lay off Diane. I think she is beating herself up enough and does not need our help anymore.

Meeka


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## Renee (Mar 27, 2008)

Lina said:


> Having these two dogs has taught me SO MUCH about just going with the flow! I'm not saying that I've changed completely, only that things that used to really get to me don't as much anymore. Not by a long shot.


I can SO relate to this statement. Before we decided to get a puppy, my husband and I discussed this in depth. I know it's a "fault" to be so particular about everything, and knew a dog would help me to put less importance on "things". And it has. I cringe when they have an accident on the carpet, knowing I won't be able to get it all out. But I've also learned carpet can be replaced, and shouldn't be put above my kids or dogs. And I believe part of this comes with maturity as well. I will probably be the type that has to always have a dog around. So I better figure out how to deal with all the other things that go along with it! For the rewards of having a dog far outweigh "things". There's nothing like coming home to 2 excited little dogs that act like they haven't seen you for weeks! And those times completely make up for the days when I would like to trade them in. (That's when I refer to them as "Thing 1" and "Thing 2".) :biggrin1:

I also know that dogs are not for everyone. I'm glad Diane figured that out early and was able to return Violet to the breeder.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Gina, You should frwd your story to Ceasar (the dog whisperer). Maybe he could help you? your story sounds perfect for his tv show!

Ryan


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

DH and I both grew up with dogs. My dad brought home a Dachshund puppy when I was about 5 or 6 years old and I've never been without a dog since. At one time DH and I had four dogs, a bird, a cat, and a rabbit! Not on purpose, it just ended up that way. We were used to dogs so that definitely made a difference for us. McKenna and Sedona were, however, the first puppies we'd had since childhood. All of the others were adults when we got them. Now we have three dogs (a cat, and 3 birds), again, not really on purpose except for the 2 Havs and the cat. Rumor, the Sheltie, was a wonderful quirk of fate.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

My blunt posts have made me totally stay out of “Should I or Shouldn’t I.” I realized a long time ago if you have to ask you already know the answer and want someone to change your mind.

Diane, I applaud you for returning Violet, she will be fine. Dogs live in the now. What some of our members seem to forget is these are dogs, not people. We own them to make use happy. Some of us need them in our lives to give us something to look forward too. Some have them as a companion, some to take the place of our grown children or babies we no longer have. They are work, they are time consuming, but it should be a labor of love, no matter how irritated or frustrated we get. I have never been with out a dog and other animals because they make me/us happy.

People make mistakes every day, just look at the divorce rate with or without children. You did what was best for you and Violet. Life is too short to keep an animal that is disrupting your life no matter what the reason. You did the responsible thing and returned her to the breeder.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Gina, please do not let Marble rule or disrupt your family. Some dogs are much harder to deal with than others. My favorite Boxer of all time (AM/Can Ch. CDX) loved my children but would not tolerate others. Not a boxer trait at all, somewhere somehow, something changed in him while he was being shown by a handler. He never bit anyone but the threat was clearly there. I had to make the decision to keep him or put him down, no re-homing for this problem. We kept him, it was a family rule he was never, never out of his crate when we had company, no matter what. My DD was only 6 and she knew to put him up if she had a friend ring the door bell. I could take him anywhere if he was on a leash or in a show ring with no problems and never a growl. He was my constant companion for over 13 years, I accepted what he was and made arrangements’ for him to live with us.

The decisions will not be easy either way you go. If you have not checked on the barking correction with the Pet Agree as posted by Ann you might want to give it a try. I’ve used it 3 times today with Smarty and it seems to be working.

Good luck.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

*To each his own.*
If I were a type A mine would all probably be re-homed. It's not the end of the world for a dog to be re-homed as long as they have been loved and treated well before and after.
*No way should anyone let a pet ruin their serenity.* 
I'm a way laid back person but cleaning up puppy pee/poop is driving me nuts. I'd be crazy to love it! I just know this too will end, but that's just me.
Our 2 area rugs are rolled up. I would love to have a responsibility free life but then I wouldn't have my 3 furkids. It's my choice.
I agree, we need to get off this thread and have a realistic one that address the perils of high maintenance Havanese versus the pleasures of Havanese.


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## Chere (May 22, 2009)

Oh, I am brand new here but I just wanted to say how sad I am for you; what a difficult decision for you to make. But, the best one for you and especially for Violet; you are giving her a wonderful chance to be placed with a family who can more readily cope with her. Much better that way than for both of you to be miserable trying to make something work. May you be blessed with the peace that comes from making the right decision for your Violet.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

> Originally Posted by PepperToast View Post
> Diane,
> 
> If you read this (and I hope you don't quite honestly), I am sorry things didn't work out for you and Violet. I admire your honesty and yes, I think you gave too much info and opened yourself up too much for the benefit of others because... boy are you sure being kicked while you are down. Intended or not... but hey when people are still writing something like, 'I knew Diane would not/should not go through with it because she..." YIKES!!!!
> ...





Lina said:


> Exactly the kind of response as to why everything gets sugar coated around here. No one is kicking her when she's down Meeka, and I don't think Diane feels that way at all. We're trying to learn from each other and that is all.


I agree 100 percent Lina. Honestly there have been so many posts like Meeka's above that I've seriously considered not posting and have been taking a break from this for a while. I am not writing this for attention or for the "don't leave" cry. I just keep hearing the lyrics from that song by Gnarls Barkley as I read the current threads. You know, the one that goes:

I remember when, I remember
I remember when I lost my mind
There was something so pleasant about that place
Even your emotions have an echo in so much space

And when you're out there without care
Yeah, I was out of touch
But it wasn't because I didn't know enough
I just knew too much

Does that make me crazy?
Does that make me crazy?
Does that make me crazy?
Possibly


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

I wasn't going to read this post anymore but the dang thing keeps sending me emails :ballchain:and I feel so many good things have transpired because of it. However, there is one more thing I would like to add. In many of the posts members have stated they didn't think a Hav should do this, or shouldn't do that, I included complaining of the boys shedding. Yes, I do believe most of us chose a Havanese because of all the wonderful things we have read about them and if they don't fit that mold, we acted shock. :brick:The wonderful stories and descriptions of the Havanese or any breed do not prepare people for the real world if they never had a puppy before. The Havanese are generally beautiful, loving dogs, however, dogs are dogs the same as people are people. I have five children, and let me tell you from time to time I look at one of them and think, "Where in the world did you come from?" They have the same parents, raised in the same house, same nationality, taught the same morals, same religion, etc. However, each one is very special in their own way, and very different from their siblings. Different personalities, appearances, and the list goes on. But sometimes I wonder if they switched babies reggersn me at the hospital for they would do something so off the wall, it did shocked me.:wink:

Each one of us has gone through very different scenarios and stages of raising our puppies. Simba and Bailey are brothers, same liter; Bailey is a chocolate with brown nose, paws, and brown rims around his green eyes. Simba's has black eyes, a tightly, curly tail, which hurts him if he gets anything caught in it, Baileys tail curves a little, and his hair is straight and Simba's hair is cottony and curly. Simba loves to cuddle, Bailey only cuddles when he is tired or not feeling well. Simba loves to play tug of war, Bailey loves to play fetch. They are so very different. :boink:

The world would be so dang boring if we all fitted into the molds we are suppose to be in. I am Irish and German who are known for stubbornness and temper. If I solely fitted into that mold I would be a biotch. No comments please! eace:Rather your English, Irish, French, Italian, Afro Americans, Chinese, etc. you are different and a unique person, the same as each Hav, Collie, Terrier, is unique but in many ways the same. I feel there are more variations in the Hav's then any other breed I have owned, seen or read about. Ok, I'm done.:yield::grouphug:


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

SMARTY said:


> Gina, please do not let Marble rule or disrupt your family. Some dogs are much harder to deal with than others. My favorite Boxer of all time (AM/Can Ch. CDX) loved my children but would not tolerate others. Not a boxer trait at all, somewhere somehow, something changed in him while he was being shown by a handler. He never bit anyone but the threat was clearly there. I had to make the decision to keep him or put him down, no re-homing for this problem. We kept him, it was a family rule he was never, never out of his crate when we had company, no matter what. My DD was only 6 and she knew to put him up if she had a friend ring the door bell. I could take him anywhere if he was on a leash or in a show ring with no problems and never a growl. He was my constant companion for over 13 years, I accepted what he was and made arrangements' for him to live with us.
> 
> The decisions will not be easy either way you go. If you have not checked on the barking correction with the Pet Agree as posted by Ann you might want to give it a try. I've used it 3 times today with Smarty and it seems to be working.
> 
> Good luck.


Sandi, your Boxer sounds just like Marble and all of the "routines" we have when people come over or we are out. I just got my Pet Agree today, and I am soooooo excited, so thank you to all who have used it, suggested it and shared their experience with it.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

sweater32 said:


> I wasn't going to read this post anymore but the dang thing keeps sending me emails :ballchain:and I feel so many good things have transpired because of it. However, there is one more thing I would like to add. In many of the posts members have stated they didn't think a Hav should do this, or shouldn't do that, I included complaining of the boys shedding. Yes, I do believe most of us chose a Havanese because of all the wonderful things we have read about them and if they don't fit that mold, we acted shock. :brick:The wonderful stories and descriptions of the Havanese or any breed do not prepare people for the real world if they never had a puppy before. The Havanese are generally beautiful, loving dogs, however, dogs are dogs the same as people are people. I have five children, and let me tell you from time to time I look at one of them and think, "Where in the world did you come from?" They have the same parents, raised in the same house, same nationality, taught the same morals, same religion, etc. However, each one is very special in their own way, and very different from their siblings. Different personalities, appearances, and the list goes on. But sometimes I wonder if they switched babies reggersn me at the hospital for they would do something so off the wall, it did shocked me.:wink:
> 
> Each one of us has gone through very different scenarios and stages of raising our puppies. Simba and Bailey are brothers, same liter; Bailey is a chocolate with brown nose, paws, and brown rims around his green eyes. Simba's has black eyes, a tightly, curly tail, which hurts him if he gets anything caught in it, Baileys tail curves a little, and his hair is straight and Simba's hair is cottony and curly. Simba loves to cuddle, Bailey only cuddles when he is tired or not feeling well. Simba loves to play tug of war, Bailey loves to play fetch. They are so very different. :boink:
> 
> The world would be so dang boring if we all fitted into the molds we are suppose to be in. I am Irish and German who are known for stubbornness and temper. If I solely fitted into that mold I would be a biotch. No comments please! eace:Rather your English, Irish, French, Italian, Afro Americans, Chinese, etc. you are different and a unique person, the same as each Hav, Collie, Terrier, is unique but in many ways the same. I feel there are more variations in the Hav's then any other breed I have owned, seen or read about. Ok, I'm done.:yield::grouphug:


You said it all so perfectly, Colleen, about dogs and kids. Simba and Bailey's pics are beautiful.
Gina


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## tabby2 (Jan 19, 2009)

sweater32 said:


> I have five children, and let me tell you from time to time I look at one of them and think, "Where in the world did you come from?"
> 
> I was eating lunch as I was reading it and you made me choke when I started laughing at this -- and nodding my head in agreement!


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

mellowbo said:


> *To each his own.*
> If I were a type A mine would all probably be re-homed. It's not the end of the world for a dog to be re-homed as long as they have been loved and treated well before and after.
> *No way should anyone let a pet ruin their serenity.*
> I'm a way laid back person but cleaning up puppy pee/poop is driving me nuts. I'd be crazy to love it! I just know this too will end, but that's just me.
> ...


That gets my vote!


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*have you ever said that about your husband too?*

Sometimes I look in the mirror and wonder about myself? Who is this lady staring back at me with non-shedding dog fur on her shirt? The one who comes home tired from work who is greeted by two mexican jumping beans, one bringing me a toy to throw and the other singing some sort of doggy opera. Then there is the cat (who is almost 20) howling because he needs to eat six time a day. And my daughter who doesn't want to do her kumon but wants to read Twilight one more time. And my sink full of dishes, and the laundry basket overflowing....

But the dogs adore me. So I sit on the floor and allow myself to be covered with kisses. I feed the cat, and take the dogs on a long walk watching Riki sniff every single blade of grass as Daisy searches for that perfect never peed upon place to do her own business.

Then I come home and vaccuum!


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Lol Linda, that about says it all........


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Wow, this thread has gotten so complicated and philosophical.

And made me think about how we all struggle everyday, as fallible human beings, yet put our best face on to the outside world. Which is fine and normal. It's pretty much like that here at the Forum. Dogs are just plain hard work, yet we like to uphold the IDEAL of owning a Hav and all the things you cannot quantify that make it all so worthwhile.

For example, the way my two little boyz lie at my feet here as I work at the computer. They lie here faithfully for HOURS, waiting until I am finished. I just cannot put a price on their devotion and trust and companionship. I cannot imagine life without Heathy and Biscuit. ((Even though Heath peed twice in the house this morning. LOL. Actually it was our fault a fluke. He has been perfect lately. )) It moves me deeply. Why do we have this profound connection with another species? It's truly a wonder and a mystery.

We have all had these unquantifiable experiences with our Havs, and that's why we're all here on this Forum. When I reflect on it, I'm beginning to realize it really isn't sugar-coating the reality, but paying homage to the experience in its purest and best form. Am I making sense? Owning a Hav is just like real life: having children, having relationships, working at something etc. etc.~~~~everything worthwhile is a leap of faith and also messy and difficult and ambiguous, and involves sacrifice. But it's these experiences that enrich us and give our lives their meaning.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Well said, Amy!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Amy, that is beautiful, well said.


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

So true, Amy. 

Anything worth having is worth working hard for. The job is a pleasure.


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Amy, very well said and so true.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Amy and Linda, beautifully stated. Brings to mind "nothing in life is free." That was always my Dad's philosphy "anything worth having never comes without a price." In my wisdom as an adult, I learned it had little to do with monetary meaning. Simply if you want it bad enough, you work to maintain it.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*So true...*

You know when I was younger, I used to look at couples that weren't working well to see what they were doing wrong. Now I realize it is better to look at happy couples with longevity and see what they are doing right.

They often say the same thing. They are basically compatible, they work through things, the have a contract with each other for resolving problems, and they are committed to staying in it even if that means getting outside help. They often take walks together. They all say it isn't always a bed of roses, and it helps if both have good friends outside the marriage to talk things through with and not rely all the time on their partner.

I noticed that the people who had the best behaved dogs had a lot more freedom. A well-trained dog can go just about anywhere. A poorly trained dog pretty much has to stay home. The happiest dogs had an activity or a job. So I found a havanese mentor and copied her. It was a very good thing because all sorts of people who had poor experiences were telling me what not to do. I wanted to know what TO DO. Makes life so much easier.

Go where the wisdom is, find someone who has what you want and ask them how they did it.


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Linda, Very good and excellent advice. It is like looking at a half glass of water. Is the glass half full, or is it half empty.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Linda, I am impressed with your wisdom and your ability to express it. I agree 100%.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Wow---this thread has taken lots of twists and turns since I last was reading--like 7-8 pages ago! 

I think Diane in the end made the best decision for her...and I applaud that. I think her honesty has opened the door to comments. She is not the only one who has purchased a puppy and later returned that puppy for whatever reason and I didn't find myself judging them as I will not Diane either. I had hoped things would work out for her,but they didn't....so why judge her?

I am not known for sugar coating...so I will move on from that----

Don't you all think there is a moment when you get your pup that they are such a delight and you are so happy......then after the 10th pee on the floor and three chewed up electrical cords....you think to yourself......what the hell was I thinking? This dog is dumb,he is not catching on? Then you plug on day after day and after a while you are like a robot and you have them down pat..their routines/habits etc. You wait like a Mom to pounce with a firm correction as they get that cord in the mouth,or go to squat on the rug? The thing is---I worked hard,very hard day in day out for months and months and months to house break my hav....after he was 10-12 months old I conquered it and him. I succeeded! Now I have what I worked so hard for. There is a huge commitment with these dogs and I did it alone. I have never had "husband involvement" and who cares? You don't need that. If you want it----quit bitching and do it. I have worked dam_ hard for anything I ever wanted and I still do---dogs are no exception. Everyone's experience is different,but yet the same....you see? 

These are great dogs and worth the extra work if you stick to it and are committed. If not---I think you need to entertain a different breed or maybe a cat.....or a goldfish! :thumb:


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## PepperToast (Oct 27, 2008)

Julie,

I wish I could have written such a wise, well spoken post.

Thanks,


Meeka


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Meeka---Oh.....thanks--but I am not well spoken:hug: How much do I owe you?ound:

No seriously--I do think if you have a husband or partner on board,it must be nice and easier,but certainly not necessary if you are "driven" and well maybe,as bullheaded as I am. If I left it to my husband,we would have no kids and no dogs and I'd just be looking at him laying in a bed or something. I do what I want,when I want. That is just "me". Of course....(thank goodness) not everyone is like me..but that is how it is here and for me. I tend to worry,but forge forward and then celebrate when the results are what I want. It doesn't always work out for me,but I can always say I tried and did my best. I grew up that way. 

I was worried,very worried I had made a mistake with Quince,but I reached out and found some advice and applied it "my own style". I often think back now and wonder how I did all of it,but I did and I am rewarded every day with a cute non-shredding hair ball!:thumb:


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Rikidaisy said:


> You know when I was younger, I used to look at couples that weren't working well to see what they were doing wrong. Now I realize it is better to look at happy couples with longevity and see what they are doing right.
> 
> They often say the same thing. They are basically compatible, they work through things, the have a contract with each other for resolving problems, and they are committed to staying in it even if that means getting outside help. They often take walks together. They all say it isn't always a bed of roses, and it helps if both have good friends outside the marriage to talk things through with and not rely all the time on their partner.
> 
> ...


So, so true! I love your wisdom!


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Julie, I agree that anyone who's committed enough can handle owning a dog. In my case, I never wanted to own a dog all by myself because I will work long hours and need someone (i.e. DH) to be on board with me so I can own a dog that's well taken care of. I don't think it is a necessity for everyone, but it is VERY helpful to have help and support. I'd find it tiring and frustrating to have a partner that doesn't care one bit for my dog and every now and then makes comments about I shouldn't have gotten the dog in the first place. I enjoy the fact that Joey enjoys Pablo's presence, it wasn't his dream, but he is supporting and enjoying *my* dream. That is the point Carolina and I were making, it is a RELIEF not a necessity. Also, I think there's a difference between being single and owning a dog and having a nagging partner and owning a dog.


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Marb, Did the Pet Alert help?


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

Julie said:


> These are great dogs and worth the extra work if you stick to it and are committed. If not---I think you need to entertain a different breed or maybe a cat.....or a goldfish! :thumb:


See, I think it's all prospective. I had fish and had to get rid of them because we wanted to travel and the fish didn't :wink:


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

maryam187 said:


> Julie, I agree that anyone who's committed enough can handle owning a dog. In my case, I never wanted to own a dog all by myself because I will work long hours and need someone (i.e. DH) to be on board with me so I can own a dog that's well taken care of. I don't think it is a necessity for everyone, but it is VERY helpful to have help and support. I'd find it tiring and frustrating to have a partner that doesn't care one bit for my dog and every now and then makes comments about I shouldn't have gotten the dog in the first place. I enjoy the fact that Joey enjoys Pablo's presence, it wasn't his dream, but he is supporting and enjoying *my* dream. That is the point Carolina and I were making, it is a RELIEF not a necessity. Also, I think there's a difference between being single and owning a dog and having a nagging partner and owning a dog.


Oh yes----I totally "get" what you and Lina were speaking of. I don't disagree with anyone's post really. I can see everyone's point and the reasons they feel like they do.

My husband wasn't crazy about the idea of any dog,but we have two! Guess who the "sneak a treat-er " is? He just said last night how cute Quincy was when you can see his eyes. I just think often times you have to kind of push a bit to get what you want,or at least in my case.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

iluvhavs said:


> See, I think it's all prospective. I had fish and had to get rid of them because we wanted to travel and the fish didn't :wink:


That is funny---because goldfish can flop easily into a bowl with no air needed. Did you have salt water or tropical fish?

Actuallt in the scheme of things all pets are work,no matter what. Cleaning the fish tank is a ton of work at least was for me. I have a 45 hex.


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