# Shaping



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

Although Ted is being a bit of a teenager (ok a lot) right now the trainer is amazed at how very smart he is. She loves his personality too and would like to do shaping with him. She said that she is bringing up shaping in next weeks class, but she would really like us to do a lot so that when Ted is involved in therapy he will have all kinds of things to impress the patients. This week we are going to work on position, as Ted is not very good at all at taking position with me and walking beside me. I think I am having a very hard time because he is so small and I tend to try and compensate for his height difference (and maybe my back too) I reward him for being sort of beside me. Bad, bad me! She also wants us to work on hide and go seek and off leash training. Anyone else here involved in shaping their Hav?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

nope, I have NO idea what 'shaping' even is! LOL


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

I know its some kind of training that is supposed to make it so that the dog can't fail at what they are learning.


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## NvonS (Jul 8, 2010)

Try using a long wooden spoon with peanut butter on it to get Ted to heal close. Also hold his leash in your right hand and let it fall across your knees. IDK why but this gets Lily to heal closer than just holding her leash in my left hand.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

NvonS said:


> Try using a long wooden spoon with peanut butter on it to get Ted to heal close. Also hold his leash in your right hand and let it fall across your knees. IDK why but this gets Lily to heal closer than just holding her leash in my left hand.


I will go out and buy a wooden spoon. I do hold the leash in my right hand already and Ted is on the right of me


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lise said:


> Although Ted is being a bit of a teenager (ok a lot) right now the trainer is amazed at how very smart he is. She loves his personality too and would like to do shaping with him. She said that she is bringing up shaping in next weeks class, but she would really like us to do a lot so that when Ted is involved in therapy he will have all kinds of things to impress the patients. This week we are going to work on position, as Ted is not very good at all at taking position with me and walking beside me. I think I am having a very hard time because he is so small and I tend to try and compensate for his height difference (and maybe my back too) I reward him for being sort of beside me. Bad, bad me! She also wants us to work on hide and go seek and off leash training. Anyone else here involved in shaping their Hav?


Well, shaping, in essence, is breaking down behaviors into their smallest parts, and slwoly working toward the finished behavior. The hard part is to be very clear in your own head what the criteria you are working on is, and then being absolutely spot on with thiming of your clicker. I think that most people who train seriously do at least some shaping.

Die-hard clicker trainers do a lot of work getting the dog to offer behaiors, and then clicking things that seem interesting, that they want to reinforce, then start shaping a finished behavior from there. This method is supposed to lead to dogs who are better "problem solvers". (just what we need... SMARTER Havs!:biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1

I certainly do LOTS of shaping with Kodi in the first sense. All the time I am upping the criteria, expecting tight heeling, straight, close fronts, longer stays, and our biggest project at the moment... Learning to HOLD the dumbell on the retrieve!

As far as "walking beside you" is concerned, are you looking for casual, "loose leash walking", or formal heeling? For the former, I love the method taught by All Dog's Gym:






This is the first of several parts, but you should be able to find the others from there.

For formal heeling, of course you start with loose leash walking, but then you fairly quickly start working toward more precision. With bigger dogs, a lot of people do "chin heeling" to teach them the proper position. Not a possibility with our little guys!!! It's back-breaking, but I found that lots and lots of treats, given only RIGHT at the seam of my pant leg was the "easiest" (that's a relative term!!!:biggrin1 way to teach Kodi the proper position.

I think it's funny how many trainers seem so surprised at how smart and trainable our little Havs are. They are great dogs!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lise said:


> I will go out and buy a wooden spoon. I do hold the leash in my right hand already and Ted is on the right of me


OK, so you're not working on formal heeling... Otherwise he'd be on your left.. In that case, do look into the Youtube videos I posted.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

I want Ted to walk with me at this point. I am more interested in Therapy and all that that entails. I am thinking of Agility as a side line. Tonight the trainer showed me what was on that video(backward walking) and getting Ted to position himself beside me. I will not be showing Ted at all so no need right now for formalities


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## NvonS (Jul 8, 2010)

NvonS said:


> Try using a long wooden spoon with peanut butter on it to get Ted to heal close. Also hold his leash in your right hand and let it fall across your knees. IDK why but this gets Lily to heal closer than just holding her leash in my left hand.


Leash in my right hand across my knees with Lily healing at my left side. I started with the spoon with the peanut butter in my left hand at the seam of my pants.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

I am going out today to get my spoon and Ill try him on my left side


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Good for you Lise, you're rolling right along. Good stuff Karen. Yeah Gail's site is good. I would also recommend Emily Larlham's , she has the best collection of videos for training anywhere. They both are very dog friendly. http://www.youtube.com/kikopup


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

Spoon bought. Off leash went well today. He came to me or followed me where ever I went. Walking backwards he comes right to me. Seems its the forward that is an issue for him. Tomorrow, some off leash and some spoon walking


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## miller123 (Aug 13, 2011)

Shaping is great. It works great with anything, from tricks to behaviour modificataion. I taught miller about 90% of his tricks that way. The collest one he is working on is handstand.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

Cool, I'm not worried about Ted catching on, more me!


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

are havs okay with peanut butter? 
I had a lot of trouble too with charley because he is way down there and it was sort of back breaking teaching him "come to side". we practiced alot indoors first without the distraction of outdoors. at first he would be treated, i.e., his meals are fed to him with training - no treats). i soon noticed that he would stay on my side for longer and longer periods even without the rewrad. getting him into a certain position was really tough. he just didn't seem to get the position thing. so at first I adjusted my position or I led him in from the front and turned him around to face front. it seems to have worked and we've been working on it for months. today we were out for a walk. he was several feet away from me sniffing and doing his doggie thing, and I said Charley Heel. and he came right over to me on my left side. I was so surprised and happy. Yay Charley! we keep practicing this. but I will try the spoon. I want to keep charley at my left side and vary the pace. thanks for the video suggestions. I will take a look.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> are havs okay with peanut butter?
> I had a lot of trouble too with charley because he is way down there and it was sort of back breaking teaching him "come to side". we practiced alot indoors first without the distraction of outdoors. at first he would be treated, i.e., his meals are fed to him with training - no treats). i soon noticed that he would stay on my side for longer and longer periods even without the rewrad. getting him into a certain position was really tough. he just didn't seem to get the position thing. so at first I adjusted my position or I led him in from the front and turned him around to face front. it seems to have worked and we've been working on it for months. today we were out for a walk. he was several feet away from me sniffing and doing his doggie thing, and I said Charley Heel. and he came right over to me on my left side. I was so surprised and happy. Yay Charley! we keep practicing this. but I will try the spoon. I want to keep charley at my left side and vary the pace. thanks for the video suggestions. I will take a look.


Yes, peanut butter is fine for dogs, just keep in mind that it is pretty calorie laden, so limit the amount he gets.

Yes, one of the ONLY "negative" things I can say about training Kodi in particular and Havanese in general is that teaching proper, tight heeling is back-breaking work!!!. It's also not something that any breed of dog learns quickly. It needs LOTS of reinforcement, and it needs to be "proofed" in lots of different environments over time. It sounds like you are making WONDERFUL progress with Charley! Jut keep it up. He'll get there!!!!


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

My back can attest to that! Trying to figure what else I can put then PB. Im going to try it, but I put it in his kong and he didnt like it at all!


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Try cream cheese. Brody doesn't care about peanut butter at all, but he loves cream cheese.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

There are also these new "roll-on" training treats:

http://www.petsafe.net/products/pet-treats/canine-lickety-stik/lickety-stik-savory-chicken

that some people at our training center have been using. Maybe you could duct tape one to the end of a stick? (this is what I'd try if I got another Hav puppy!)


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## Gabs (Apr 15, 2012)

those rolling treats are amazing! "Gabby Approved", lol and shes picky with her treats


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

Cream cheese worked on a spoon!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lise said:


> Cream cheese worked on a spoon!


:whoo: Anything that will save that back!!!:biggrin1:


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

krandall said:


> Yes, peanut butter is fine for dogs, just keep in mind that it is pretty calorie laden, so limit the amount he gets.
> 
> Yes, one of the ONLY "negative" things I can say about training Kodi in particular and Havanese in general is that teaching proper, tight heeling is back-breaking work!!!. It's also not something that any breed of dog learns quickly. It needs LOTS of reinforcement, and it needs to be "proofed" in lots of different environments over time. It sounds like you are making WONDERFUL progress with Charley! Jut keep it up. He'll get there!!!!


thanks karen. charley and I have been working on this one for months. he's really pretty good with it. I'd like to start working it with other dogs around. thus far Charley has never gotten treats (we work strictly with his food). But I'm thinking to bring out a treat when working with another dog as distraction - something with very high value as a reward.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

miller123 said:


> Shaping is great. It works great with anything, from tricks to behaviour modificataion. I taught miller about 90% of his tricks that way. The collest one he is working on is handstand.


a handstand!!!! I'm assuming on his back paws?? or the front? !!! OMG!
what other tricks/behavior mods have you taught?


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## miller123 (Aug 13, 2011)

Charleysmom said:


> a handstand!!!! I'm assuming on his back paws?? or the front? !!! OMG!
> what other tricks/behavior mods have you taught?


Front paws, I am amazed he caught on, he is now targeting his back feet to the wall, i will put a link.






other things i have taught using shaping are

spin, come, stay, speak, dead dog, roll over, paws on my arm, pray, crawl, no barking at other dogs on walk (in progress) 
all of his agility stuff was taught with the clicker/shaping
loose leash walking, bark to go outside, like his harness because he used to hate it. leg weaves jump in my lap, sit up, sneeze, growl and we are working on get your leash and harness, we are also working on go to your mat when doorbell rings. the things you can teach are limitless and you really just have to be creative. Miller catches on very fast and it normaly takes him about three days to understand what is expected of him for each behaviour.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

that sounds wonderful. charley is also so smart. he also leanrs easily and usually in 3 days he's got it. he knows so many commands at this point and I want to teach him more. 

so far he knows his name, sit, stand, down, come, go, stay, wait, hi five, rollover, over (a bar), up (on a stool), circle left, circle right, where's my nose, elbow, ear, touch, catch (fly balls), bring it here, leave it, out, bow, stop, crate, go to your place, shake, get it, look at me, let's go, hide and seek, come to side, come to front, eh-eh, crawl, drink. i'm probably forgetting something but for 8 months old I think he's doing pretty good. 

and he seems to love to learn. i've been trying to teach him speak and whisper but he doesn't bark very often. anyway, thanks for your list. and you've done it mainly from you-tube? sneeze? hmmmm...? how'd you do that? I think charley has only sneezed a couple of times in the last 5 months.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

miller123 said:


> Front paws, I am amazed he caught on, he is now targeting his back feet to the wall, i will put a link.
> 
> Train your dog the walking handstand! - YouTube
> 
> ...


that video is incredible. I'd love to try it with charley but he's only 8 months so we'll have to wait a bit.


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## miller123 (Aug 13, 2011)

Charleysmom said:


> that sounds wonderful. charley is also so smart. he also leanrs easily and usually in 3 days he's got it. he knows so many commands at this point and I want to teach him more.
> 
> so far he knows his name, sit, stand, down, come, go, stay, wait, hi five, rollover, over (a bar), up (on a stool), circle left, circle right, where's my nose, elbow, ear, touch, catch (fly balls), bring it here, leave it, out, bow, stop, crate, go to your place, shake, get it, look at me, let's go, hide and seek, come to side, come to front, eh-eh, crawl, drink. i'm probably forgetting something but for 8 months old I think he's doing pretty good.
> 
> and he seems to love to learn. i've been trying to teach him speak and whisper but he doesn't bark very often. anyway, thanks for your list. and you've done it mainly from you-tube? sneeze? hmmmm...? how'd you do that? I think charley has only sneezed a couple of times in the last 5 months.


most of the tricks i have taught have came from a book i have called 101 dog tricks by Kyra Sundance. The only ones i have taught from youtube are "how to stop barking on walks" by kikopup and the handstand one. Miller sneezed a little bit when he was a puppy so i clicked and treated when i saw him doing that. Now when he gets frustrated he will often sneeze so i clicke and treat that, I have yet to put it on que though.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

I am going to watch it on utube. just the audio comes on , on here. Thanks!


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