# Unable to "hold it"



## forbes2000 (Mar 24, 2011)

Hi there,

My wife and I just got our 4 month old Havanese two weeks ago. We have been trying to train him to go outside to pee and poop. When we get him outside, and give him the command word, he poops and pees on command. However, if my wife and I don't take him out every hour, he'll pee or poop on the floor. Is this unusual for a Havanese? Shouldn't he be able to hold it for a few hours by now? 

The funny thing is, at night he can hold it 8-9 hours in his crate.

He doesn't drink very much water (we limit it).

Another issue is that we're having a really hard time getting him not to bark and go crazy in his crate. He just hates it--except at night when he's a perfect angel in it (we set it next to our bed, otherwise he barks like mad). We've tried and tried to get him to like his crate, but we work and need to stuff him in there in order to get to work. Any suggestions?


Thanks... so glad to have found this forum!!


----------



## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

At four months old they still have tiny bladders. Not until they are 6 months or more can they hold it for long. As for the crate I am sure others who useing them in the same manner as you will chime in.


----------



## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

One of the very few down sides that Havs can have is that some of them can be tricky to potty train in comparison to other breeds.I know ours were,it was just a question of perseverance, and not getting wound up about it, because they are not trying to be naughty,generally all they want to do is please.And they will get there in the end,but it may take easily up until he is 6/7 months old, even if he can hold it at night.
We never limit the amount of water our dogs can have as this does not seem to make any difference to the amount of times they need to pee.They will only drink when they are thirsty and need the fluid.
Is the little fellow getting plenty of puppy exercise? So that he is tired when he needs to go in his crate,also you could try putting a piece of your clothing in his crate so that your scent will comfort him.Maybe try giving him a Kong just when you have to leave him.His crate should be his safe haven.Also it is not a good idea to leave them in their crate for too long in the day time, otherwise they might panic.These dogs are companion dogs so therefore they don't like it when they are not near their people.How is he if you crate him whilst you are in sight?You could also perhaps talk to his breeder for help.So good luck!


----------



## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Our puppy had to go potty quite often during the day, even though she could hold it at night. I took her out every hour for about 2 weeks and then every two and so on. I never limited her intake of water-even in the evening. She only drinks when she is thirsty. Now, she is almost a year old (4 days!) and she is very good about holding her urine. She goes in the morning, about noon, evening and before bed. Your pup will get there.

BTW-how long is the pup in the crate during the day? If he is in there during the day and at night no wonder he doesn't like it. I am lucky and am a SAHM, but Lizzie was never in her crate more than 3-4 hours. She rarely goes in now-she sleeps with us. I have been letting her stay out when I run errands. Like Clare says, they are companion dogs. Lizzie literally follows me EVERYWHERE in the house. I go in a room and she follows I leave and she follows. She is always on the go with me!


----------



## Jplatthy (Jan 16, 2011)

I had to take Smokey out every 30-45 minutes ...I wrote it down because the vet did not believe me lol.....if I didn't he had a "pee" accident in the house...he never pooped in the house from the day we brought him hom......he was pretty much in line with what everyone on here has said....it took about 6-7 months before he could hold it for longer during the day.....he still goes alot more frequently than my other one which is a female.......he also could go 6-8 hours during the night...so hang in there and stay consistent with the praise and don't punish if he has an accident in the house that will actually work against you

As far as the crate is concerned I think he resists during the day because you are not there with him and he knows he is going to be there for a long time by himself...have you considered using a gated area where he would have more room to play and run around but the crate would be in there when he got tired....my vet and quite a few others insisted that I had to crate them or they would never be potty trained..I just coud not do it....I saw how much they loved to play and run so I gated off our dining room..fileld it with toys and their crates and they did just fine......you just have to play around with things until you find what works for you regardless of what all the 'experts' say lol

Good luck......I PROMISE you it will all be worth it in the end!


----------



## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Congrats!

FYI - I would never limit any dog's water, unless there is a medical reason to do so...

Anyway, I concur with Havanesex2 above - have you considered having a gated area with the crate available to him? That is what we do with Ceylon when he has to be left home alone and he does great. He climbs into his crate on his own, whether he is confined to the kitchen or not, to nap whenever he is tired... just a suggestion, I also agree to try out different things until you find something that works. (Also, Cey only really began liking his crate when his sitter donated a nice fleece blanket to go in the bottom, to replace the towel I had in there...)

It actually sounds like he has a pretty good start re. the potty training. It takes patience, but at least your dog is going outside... we use the bell-on-the-door thing and Cey is really good about ringing it to go pee (or to be let out to play with the neighbor's cat lol!) but we are still having issues with pooping inside, so count yourselves somewhat lucky 

Also, keep in mind that you have only had him for 2 weeks, and it will take him time to adjust to you and you to him. IMO, getting a new dog is much like getting a new child . You think you know how everything 'should' be done and you want to do everything 'the right way', but then they always turn out to have their own opinions about the matter!! So you all have to work to get to where all of you are comfortable, both with the situation and with each other. I encourage you to experiment a bit, and to try different things until you find ways that work for all of you. 

p.s., what is his name? And do you have pics?


----------



## Blondie13 (Mar 27, 2011)

Make sure the crate is not too big because he may do his business in there which could cause to potty training problems at least, that's what our Hav did and now we have some ongoing potty training problems.
Wish you luck
K.S.


----------



## forbes2000 (Mar 24, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your quick and helpful advice!

He's getting _a little _better... but it's still every hour or hour and thirty minutes...

I'm wondering... the biggest problem my wife and I are having now is getting him to be quiet in his crate. He does a great job when we're in the same room, and he's in his crate (including the 9 hours overnight--the crate is right next to us in the bed). However, the instant we leave he goes crazy--barking, clawing, and yelping. Is there anything we can do to help him calm down? We have tried putting a Kong with peanut butter and a shirt with my scent on it. But nothing seems to work.

Thanks again for all your help!!


----------



## Jplatthy (Jan 16, 2011)

How long is he in his crate during the day? If he's in it at night for 8 or 9 hours and then another 8 or 9 hours during the day if you are both working that is a really long time to leave him in the crate which may be why he throws a fit when you put him in there and leave..........

Of course some dogs just don't do as well being left alone as others do.....Smokey had anxiety issues when we left him alone no matter how short of a time...that's why we ended up getting a 2nd one because we couldn't take him getting so stressed out...we tried it for 2 weeks and it wasn't getting any better....now he's a happy camper...well as long as Sissy is with him!


----------



## forbes2000 (Mar 24, 2011)

Oh boy, another dog?! I'm not sure if we're ready 

He's in the crate 9 hours at night, out all day with my wife, and then in it for an hour or two while we go out to the movies, eat, etc. It seems like it should be a good length?

It must be something with anxiety, because the second we leave his sight, he goes crazy.


----------



## forbes2000 (Mar 24, 2011)

...even if I put him in the crate for 5 minutes to run down to the washer/drawer, he goes crazy... which means I'm starting to do crazy :\


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

forbes2000 said:


> ...even if I put him in the crate for 5 minutes to run down to the washer/drawer, he goes crazy... which means I'm starting to do crazy :


 That is why I could not crate train my pups.I could not stand to hear them cry. I did however leave them created while I was gone I have no idea how long they cried.They could always hear my car when I come back so I never really knew if they settled down or not.I now leave them in my laundry room and they cry when I leave and cry when I come home. I do think they settle down tho. 
Mine travel in my car in the crate when I have the two together they are fine. When I have Zoey by herself she crys It sounds like a cat really upset it takes her about 20 min to settle down when I take her out her little face is all wet from crying. Maddie does fine by herself in the car.


----------



## havahop (Jul 24, 2010)

Forbes2000, I hear your frustration. It's heartbreaking when they are so stressed in their crates. As a foster mom to many rescue Havs I have had my share of separation anxiety and also crate anxiety. This is my suggestion. I use wire crates with a nice soft bed, a stuffed toy, blanket and a kong. These items stay in the crate at all times. I put one small treat inside the crate and one inside the kong. It helps to establish a command..I use "crate time" with mine and she will immediately go into her crate and wait for her treats. Now the best tip is to cover the crate with a blanket or sheet to make it more den like. This seems to really calm down my foster puppies. My Hav is 4 years old, really good in the crate and still loves it covered on 3 sides. Only the gate side is open but I have covered the whole thing with some of my fosters. I don't know what it is about the wire crates versus the plastic ones that they like better, especially since I am covering them but it does seem to work. I agree that a worn tee shirt of yours or your wife might help. Make sure the crate is not too big. Most full grown Havs do great in an 18x24 size. Good luck


----------



## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Is there anyway you could gate off a room and put him in there when you have to run and do the laundry or take a shower? That's what I did and she did not cry then, just sat by the gate a waited for me. They really are people dogs. I am followed all around the house.


----------



## havahop (Jul 24, 2010)

Lizzie's Mom, great advice. I did that with my Maltese who had severe separation anxiety. He was gated in the laundry room with water, a potty pad (which he used as soon as he heard the garage door open) and his open crate. He still did not like it and barked the entire time I was gone but I felt it was better for him than freaking out in the crate. It really depends on the dog and if you can get them crate trained or not. For some dogs they will never accept the crate no matter what we do. What we don't do for these little guys. They are really so sweet and just want to be with you all the time.


----------



## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

havahop said:


> Forbes2000, I hear your frustration. It's heartbreaking when they are so stressed in their crates. As a foster mom to many rescue Havs I have had my share of separation anxiety and also crate anxiety. This is my suggestion. I use wire crates with a nice soft bed, a stuffed toy, blanket and a kong. These items stay in the crate at all times. I put one small treat inside the crate and one inside the kong. It helps to establish a command..I use "crate time" with mine and she will immediately go into her crate and wait for her treats. Now the best tip is to cover the crate with a blanket or sheet to make it more den like. This seems to really calm down my foster puppies. My Hav is 4 years old, really good in the crate and still loves it covered on 3 sides. Only the gate side is open but I have covered the whole thing with some of my fosters. I don't know what it is about the wire crates versus the plastic ones that they like better, especially since I am covering them but it does seem to work. I agree that a worn tee shirt of yours or your wife might help. Make sure the crate is not too big. Most full grown Havs do great in an 18x24 size. Good luck


That is great advice, and so to is the advice about gating an area, our Nellie is fine with that.She would have SA if it weren't for the fact we also have Dizzie, but I don't know how she would cope totally on her own, as this hasn't happened since she was 16 weeks old.Who knows I might have to end up getting another just so as she is never alone, if ever I have to take one out without the other![what an excuse!]


----------

