# Raw Food Portion Size & Water Intake



## Ellie NY

Some background first...Eli is a picky eater. I've become very frustrated by him turning his nose up at expensive kibble. I've tried mixing in wet food and also cooked chicken but eventually he becomes bored. He won't eat and while that's not a huge problem I do wind up throwing away a lot of expensive food. After doing some research I've decided the problem is that he needs variety as he's a good eater when he likes something and a very food motivated dog. 

Yesterday I drove 45 min from my home to a specialty store that carries a large variety of upscale kibble, canned and raw food. I purchased Acana kibble (sibling to Orijen), Beef & Liver flavored wet food (not a complete meal but an enhancement to dry kibble), Instinct canned food, and Bravo raw food patties. You can imagine how much I spent! Acana kibble with wet food mixed was a bit of a bust. He only ate about a 1/4cup. I will try again this evening. The Bravo raw food patty went over like blockbusters this morning (I personally think it's gross but, hey, I'm not the one eating it). My concern was that the patty was 1/4 lb and the recommendation for his size (almost 10 lbs) is two patties per day. Also, the owner told me I can mix up raw in the morning or evening with a serving of kibble for the other meal (preferrably at night so his tummy stays full longer). Two questions:

Does the raw portion size sound reasonable? I don't want to overfeed but it seems so small!
Does anyone mix raw food one meal with kibble the other? How does this affect water intake? Should I just leave water out?


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## krandall

I can't answer any of your raw food questions, because we don't do raw. However, I think one of your problems may be that you are just expecting Eli to eat too much food in general! Kodi weighs 16 1/2 lbs, is in good weight, and eats a rounded 1/4c measure of kibble a day. That's it! Eli may not be eating more because he doesn't need more!


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## Ellie NY

Karen - You may be on to something. Because Eli is a very food motivated dog and never says no to snacks (Happy Hip chicken breast strips and freeze dried liver) I expect that he should eat 1/2 cup of dry kibble twice a day. Sounds like Kodi eats much less and maintains a larger weight. Could be the mother in me who expects her kids to clean their plates every meal. Consequently, my youngest is a bit of a plumper. :brick: As others respond I would love to know how much your dogs eat and their weight. Thanks!


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## TrishK

At two 1/4-pound patties a day that's 8 ounces of food. Everything I have read would indicate that a 10-pound dog should be eating only about 4 ounces a day, so only one patty, unless he is extremely active. feed 2% of body weight if overweight, 3% to maintain, more to fatten up....puppies need more. Here is a calculator http://www.raw4dogs.com/calculate.htm also, I think the amount of food i.e. the actual food weight varies depending on the nutritional content of the food. I have found with the home cooked recipes that each recipe has a different amount to be fed so that one recipe will say to feed 300 grams whereas another recipe will say 250 so I can only guess its based on whats in it and how many calories each recipe has.


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## Ellie NY

Thanks Trish. Great link. So my next question is - at which age would you no longer consider your Hav a puppy?


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## TrishK

Ellie NY said:


> Thanks Trish. Great link. So my next question is - at which age would you no longer consider your Hav a puppy?


That one I've no idea on. I would think though that if you call your vet that the receptionist should be able to ask the vet, as I think it would vary from breed to breed, and they should be able to call you back with an answer.


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## Thumper

They sort of adjust their water intake naturally when you switch, but it may be a few weeks before that happens, I'd rather have an overly hydrated dog than a dehydrated dog, but then again...butt baths, lol You should consider probiotics, it might make the switching of the food and digestion easier for you both.

Don't fall into the catering for the picky eater crap like I did, well, and like many of us do. How can you not worry about a puppy not eating, right? lol They WILL eat eventually and I think havanese are dogs that don't eat just to eat, they are the most picky breed I have ever seen or heard of in my life. All my non-havanese friends are astonished at the food she'll turn down (human and fancy dog treats)....

I wasted so much $ the first year with her picky eating and fasting for days. My neighbor probably didn't have to buy dog food or treats that year, I gave them so much..ound:

Kara


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## Sheri

I use a different raw, and calories can vary, but with Nature's Variety Raw Medallions, (4 Medallions equals 1/4 pound,) Tucker gets two and a half medallions (each medallion equals an ounce,) a day, plus 1/8 to 1/4 cup kibble throughout the day as something to crunch or treats. He's about right in body weight, according to the vets, (14 lbs.) He'd eat twice as much raw if I let him, he LOVES his raw!


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## TilliesMom

right now Tillie is on and has been on since she started eating "Taste of the Wild" kibble. She isn't very picky (thanks goodness!!!) but she is a very light eater, at nearly 7 months old she eats about a 1/3 of a cup a day... plus some training treats.


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## krandall

Ellie NY said:


> Thanks Trish. Great link. So my next question is - at which age would you no longer consider your Hav a puppy?


I was told by both my vet and breeder to transition Kodi to adult food around 1 year. I think this is a lot more critical with a fast growing large breed dog than it is with our little guys, though.


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## krandall

Thumper said:


> Don't fall into the catering for the picky eater crap like I did, well, and like many of us do. How can you not worry about a puppy not eating, right? lol They WILL eat eventually and I think havanese are dogs that don't eat just to eat, they are the most picky breed I have ever seen or heard of in my life. All my non-havanese friends are astonished at the food she'll turn down (human and fancy dog treats)....
> 
> I wasted so much $ the first year with her picky eating and fasting for days. My neighbor probably didn't have to buy dog food or treats that year, I gave them so much..ound:
> 
> Kara


Another way to "improve" a Hav's appetite is to let them spend time in a household of enthusiastic eaters. While I didn't give in to Kodi when he wouldn't eat, when he REALLY turned the corner and started RELIABLY scarfing down ALL his food, FAST, and at EVERY meal, was after he'd spent a week with a friend who has a Golden, and Newfie and a Rottie. She fed them separately, of course... otherwise Kodi wouldn't have stood a chance! But I think he learned to eat like a big dog.

Now he's actively looking for dinner at supper time, and eats it all as soon as I put it down.


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## lfung5

My guys are on the Primal raw diet. I just did a consultation with a nutritionalist. Scudder is now 16lbs and Fred 15. They both lost weight after going on her diet plan. They only had to lose a half pound each. They now get 4 ounces of raw a day, 2 ounces of beef and 2 ounces of chicken. They also get food additions. I add things like veggies, pumpkin, salmon, cottage cheese, eggs. They are supposed to get between 325-350 Kcal a day plus 3 small treats and a 1/2 flossie a day. The calories were calculated according to their size and activity level.


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## Ellie NY

Hi Linda - OK, looks like I'm definitely overfeeding but he scarfs down the 4 oz patty and looks to me for more! If I gave him another portion he would likely eat that too. It's so hard to deny them when they look at you with those gorgeous, soulful puppy dog eyes. 

It appears that you add ruffage to your guys' diet, which makes sense for people's diets to help fill them up and keep them full longer. I honestly don't want to cook for him although I don't mind boiling an egg once a week or giving him a serving of yogurt or cottage cheese. If feeding raw is cooking to add bulk a requirement? Also, what do you give them for treats? Thanks!


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## Sheri

I add a handful of frozen cut green beans to Tucker's raw, just sprinkled on top. He gobbles it down too, after the raw. I've read about using peas, too, but haven't tried that. Tucker likes frozen carrots, too, but I don't give them as much because I've been told they have higher sugar content.

I know, it's hard to not feed more, but it is for their health.


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## lfung5

I guess it depends on how much exercise he gets and how many calories in the patty. My guys get about 255 calories from the raw meat and then another 70 from different food additions. The nutritionalist told me how many calories to feed, according to my dogs activity level. She also gave me some examples of food additions and how many calories were in each. I was told that 20-25% of their total calories should be from these food additions. The other great tip I got was to cut their treats up in smaller pieces. This is how I think they lost the 1/2 pound. I actually increased the amount of calories they were getting from their food and cut down on the calories they were getting from treats. I am now giving them duck jerky, raw meaty bones, flossies, and NV biscuits. I still have some bad things like greenies. Once they are used up, I will buy the better treats.


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## ziplocker

My Hav is 2 years old and walks about 1.5 to 2 hours daily in 2 outings so I would consider him quite active. He eats 8 oz. of raw per day, no kibble. I think the back and forth would be hard on the digestive system as they take different amounts of time to empty from the stomach. And why would you feed dead processed food if you are going to go to the expense to feed a high quality live raw food?
Let his weight be your guide, if he's losing weight, up the quantity and vice versa.


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## ziplocker

I forgot to say he weighs 11 lbs. and his vet said his weight is perfect. I also give him one Primal lamb femur per week and the vet said his teeth look great!


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## krandall

ziplocker said:


> My Hav is 2 years old and walks about 1.5 to 2 hours daily in 2 outings so I would consider him quite active. He eats 8 oz. of raw per day, no kibble. I think the back and forth would be hard on the digestive system as they take different amounts of time to empty from the stomach. And why would you feed dead processed food if you are going to go to the expense to feed a high quality live raw food?
> Let his weight be your guide, if he's losing weight, up the quantity and vice versa.


Well, I hope it's not really LIVE raw food!ound:

(sorry, I know that's not what you meant, but I had visions of the neighbors having to lock up their house cats!:biggrin1


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## Miss Paige

I have both Roman & Paige on a raw diet at this time-Paige is going to be 9 in April & Rom will be 7 in June-they each get 2 medallions of Nature Variety for breakfast and two at dinner time. For a mid day snack they get a tablespoon of yogurt. And when I leave for work they each get a strip of either chicken or beef jerky. They seem to hold their weight on this diet.

Pat (humom to)
Miss Paige
Mr Roman
Ms Tula (for a while)
Ms Frannie (my true angel girl)


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