# Broken Coat



## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

I have a 20 month Havanese (who finished her championship last weekend with VERY limited showing!) and we have decided we are going to start specialing her in March. Hailey has all of the genetics for a long luxurious coat, and hers is nice and thick and correct, however I always would have liked it to be a little longer. Finally it occurred to me (after the kind advice of a fellow exhibitor) that it wasn't that her coat wasn't growing, but rather it was breaking. While Hailey could do fine in the breed ring with her current coat, if we REALLY want her to succeed in the breed and group ring, it needs to get a little longer.

This is a picture:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s246/Agilityluver/Haileys Pics/Hailey4Winners.jpg

If anyone has any advice they want to share, that would be great!


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I don't have any advice for a broken coat, because I wasn't good at keeping my guy in coat. 
I just want to comment on how beautiful she is!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

She's beautiful!!!!!

Well, I am the queen of all products here. LOL, (I may own all of them , atleast most!) And I would recommend you to try the Eqyss "Coat Rebuilder"

http://www.eqyss.com/mega_tek2.asp

I have only been using this product about 3 weeks or so, so I can't comment as to 'growth', but I do think it helps strengthen the fur from breakage. The directions say to leave it on 10-15 minutes, I think..but I have left it in about 45 min. Dampening her coat with spray bottle, working it in and then rinsing it out. I have noticed *less* breakage when combing. I'm pretty impressed with it so far, but hope to have a more noticeable result here in 3-4 months.

Also, I try to minimize breakage by using a medium bristle brush (not too soft, but not super firm) every night when I brush her out, unless I find a mat. But I still use the combs and pinbrush for the morning brush.

I did read some rave reviews on the coat rebuilder, and I'm hoping they are all right. 

Did I mention Hailey is a beauty? 

Kara


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I might have to try the Eqyss products. My 2 look like they have shorter, but it could be breakage. Especially on Kodi, because he has that cottony coat.


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

OK, this may sound dumb, but how do you know if the coat is breaking vs. falling out when brushing? Also, Izzy is finally matting, not that I wanted her to, but I feel like I'm just ripping the matts out....is there any other way? I do notice that her mustache seems to break as it is not very long. I'm not sure how to keep it combed out without using a flea comb. The other comb I have is the one with rotating teeth. Anyway, just thought I'd ask about the breaking.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Some hav's just seem to have coats that do break a lot. I don't know the "why", but I have seen many that do. You might try giving her some seameal when you feed her, that helps to strenthen the coat. Also, some foods are not good on some dog's coats. So, you might look into that too. Bathing weekly, with a very good conditioner will help also. I know some handlers say to keep the coat oiled, but then other's say don't, as the oil attracts dirt and debris which can harm the coat too. Trail and error seems more the rule then anyone having an actual fix. <grin>

If you are going to breed her, don't be surprised if she looses a lot of coat, that can happen too.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Judy A said:


> OK, this may sound dumb, but how do you know if the coat is breaking vs. falling out when brushing? Also, Izzy is finally matting, not that I wanted her to, but I feel like I'm just ripping the matts out....is there any other way? I do notice that her mustache seems to break as it is not very long. I'm not sure how to keep it combed out without using a flea comb. The other comb I have is the one with rotating teeth. Anyway, just thought I'd ask about the breaking.


I can tell by the shorter areas and length of hair that ends up on me, or on the blanket.

Instead of vacuuming, I spread out this dark maroon fleece blanket and we sit on that, since Gucci's hair is light colored, I can see what comes out on the combs/brushes or just hits the blanket and/or me. I usually pull the shedded hair out alot as we go and pile it. Most of what hits the comb/brush and stays are the longer the hair. I can just see shorter breaks on her coat too. Typically around her collar, chest and belly, seems to be weaker for some reason? Or I'll get some breakage on a mat, even if I TRY to be careful and take my time.

I think the coat rebuilder is working though...Maybe its a coincidence? but I'm noticing as much hair on the blanket. or my combs.

If you want to see everything that happens/breaks/sheds during a brush out, just sit on a contrasting color fabric/blanket.

Kara


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Natasha, for some really good tips, you may want to talk to someone locally who does professional handling of breeds like Maltese, Shih Tzu and Lhasa Apso. Granted, they have a stronger hair than Havanese (generally speaking), but they can give you some tips. Those girls are hard to keep in full coat with their heat cycles, and if she is playing with other dogs that is probably the biggest cause of hair breakage.


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## Krimmyk (Dec 7, 2006)

Thumperlove said:


> I can tell by the shorter areas and length of hair that ends up on me, or on the blanket.
> 
> Instead of vacuuming, I spread out this dark maroon fleece blanket and we sit on that, since Gucci's hair is light colored, I can see what comes out on the combs/brushes or just hits the blanket and/or me. I usually pull the shedded hair out alot as we go and pile it. Most of what hits the comb/brush and stays are the longer the hair. I can just see shorter breaks on her coat too. Typically around her collar, chest and belly, seems to be weaker for some reason? Or I'll get some breakage on a mat, even if I TRY to be careful and take my time.
> 
> ...


Ha! I thought I was nutz! I brush Sully on a light colored towel as he is dark. I am anal about Sully's coat so I need to know EVERYTHING that goes on with it. Is he a show dog anymore, heck no, but he's still showie darn it!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Krimmyk said:


> Ha! I thought I was nutz! I brush Sully on a light colored towel as he is dark. I am anal about Sully's coat so I need to know EVERYTHING that goes on with it. Is he a show dog anymore, heck no, but he's still showie darn it!


LOL! I'm glad I'm not the only one 'obsessive' about it. ound:ound:

I may not know as much as the maltese show people, but its nice in Real life..when long time Hav show people ask me what I do to get Gucci's coat so long and shiny 

Either the blowing coat is slowing down, or the coat rebuilder is working very nicely, or both. Either way...I'm happy with how it looking!

Sully is a star! :kiss:

Kara


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Show maltese people are crazy <BG> And you have to be realistic what you are willing to live with. Isabelle could never be a show maltese, well more importantly, I could never be a show maltese mom! I put Belle in oil once and only a few wraps (I couldn't do that part my friend did!) and then she came back inside the house- oh yeah, I forgot about that- it is a no no! Lets just say that is when decided Belle doesn't need to grow her coat that bad!

Dora's coat has grown great. My biggest tip is not on products but just to stay on brushing it. I have found I could throw away everything as long as I put in the time commitment with the pin brush and the greyhound comb.

Amanda


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

I can't imagine dealing with all that hair. I have Gryff cut every 8 weeks or so. I wonder what he'd look like with long hair, but my husband won't have it.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

The long coats are beautiful, but there is a different level of care needed on many of the older Havanese, especially if you are going to special a bitch. There are so many Havanese that just can't grow a long coat without broken hairs and it doesn't have anything to do with which products you use. It's just a fact of genetics.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Kimberly, I wish I would have read that before I ordered from Eqyss. :biggrin1: Oh, well it can't hurt. I really think I have to realize that Kodi will never have the Hav coat you typically see. He has a cotton candy coat. It is wavy but silky on his chest and legs, but his back is just poofy. I'm just trying to get it to look healthier, but that might never happen.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

ivyagogo said:


> I can't imagine dealing with all that hair. I have Gryff cut every 8 weeks or so. I wonder what he'd look like with long hair, but my husband won't have it.


I wish I could lie and tell you it was easy! lol, Gucci's coat is just getting thicker and longer by the minute, lol....which makes it more work. Just in the last 12 hours alone after the trip to the farm, I've probably spent atleast 2 hours getting it back to how it is supposed to be.

I disagree on the breakage to an extent. I think some combs and/or brushes can cause breakage, as does trying to brush too fast and hitting a mat, harnesses, collars, topknots, etc., and I think some products and shampoos make a world of difference, especially in leaving the coat softer and less likely to mat.

I've been taking her collar off more, here lately, to let that fur catch up on growth. But looking at other havs/sd's in real life, many show dogs have shorter fur on their chest and collar area too, and I presume that is likely a genetic factor and/or just stress from collars/harnesses.

But I don't have to worry about other dogs chomping her fur off, and that's a good thing!  Well, kinda..heh.

Kara


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Michele, there is nothing wrong with EQyss. I love their Premiere conditioning spray for my black dogs. Good products are helpful, but they won't save a coat that breaks. It takes a lot of work and keeping them from other dogs, and a host of other helps. That's why so many show dogs with long coats that are specialed end up spending a lot of time on satin pillows and staying in crates.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh, of course, some products & methods cause damage, but for a coat that is prone to breaking, I'm saying that unless you take extreme measures, you're just going to have to deal with that. If Gucci's coat doesn't break, you're fortunate, but many Havanese, especially older bitches do. For someone considering specialing with a broken coat, she'll probably have to go to those extreme measures.

I've had four Havanese champions and put points on four others. The Havanese coats vary a lot and most of them do have breakage.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

irnfit said:


> Kimberly, I wish I would have read that before I ordered from Eqyss. :biggrin1: Oh, well it can't hurt. I really think I have to realize that Kodi will never have the Hav coat you typically see. He has a cotton candy coat. It is wavy but silky on his chest and legs, but his back is just poofy. I'm just trying to get it to look healthier, but that might never happen.


I don't think the Eqyss will hurt, it is one of the better products I've tried. I think some products actually MAKE Gucci's coat seem more cottony. You can always give it a test run and send it back, they do take 'returns'  Have you tried the distilled water?

I would probably try some leave in conditioner on the area that is 'poofy' that might weigh it down a bit.

Kara


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I think that's their biggest problem - they play too rough. But, I would rather watch them play in a short coat, then have a long coat and crated. I will keep them in long coats as long as I can. Right now it is not a problem.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

irnfit said:


> I think that's their biggest problem - they play too rough. But, I would rather watch them play in a short coat, then have a long coat and crated. I will keep them in long coats as long as I can. Right now it is not a problem.


That's exactly it, Michele. You have more than one dog, and you aren't specialing one out in the show ring like Natasha trying to make it to the top rankings of the breed. Both of those elements make a huge difference.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I've been using Isle of Dog and really like them. I haven't used a leave in cond in a while, because I didn't like what it did to his coat. One thing that is a positive - I think he is done with blowing coat. Shelby is the one with mats now, but she is much easier to take care of then Kodi. 

As for brushes, I have a soft bristle brush, a CC pin brush and I use a rotating comb or my fingers for mats.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Yea for being done with blowing coat!


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Thumperlove said:


> I disagree on the breakage to an extent. I think some combs and/or brushes can cause breakage, as does trying to brush too fast and hitting a mat, harnesses, collars, topknots, etc., and I think some products and shampoos make a world of difference, especially in leaving the coat softer and less likely to mat.
> 
> I've been taking her collar off more, here lately, to let that fur catch up on growth. But looking at other havs/sd's in real life, many show dogs have shorter fur on their chest and collar area too, and I presume that is likely a genetic factor and/or just stress from collars/harnesses.
> 
> Kara


The shorter hair you are seeing can be part genetics, but having another dog is a HUGE factor. Unless the special lives with the handler and does not play with other dogs a lot, its near impossible to prevent breakage. There are some coats that just are prone to some breakage no matter how hard you try. Its doesn't have to be from brushing, it can be from them rolling in the grass.

I have started to work on Stogies coat. Its insane its in any shape at all, because I really dont give it much care. His breaks from playing with Goldie. Unless I make them stop, it will always be that way. Some dogs, including Stogies dad have a bit of a frizzier coat, and it looks like it has some breakage, but could be just the way it is.

But having TWO dogs is a HUGE factor in coat condition. Ask anyone who has specialed/shown a dog while they are living in the house with others.

Just my .02

Oh and I think brushing everyday and using some kind of spray on conditioner when you do, helps a ton. Plus bathing frequently and drying on cool heat. I give better advice than I practice.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I can't wait til' we are done with blowing coat. My gawd, I swear her coat has gotten thicker, the family has been commenting on it, but this morning's bath and blow dry/brush out convinced me. I'll have to get some pics later and compare to last months.

As far as leave in's, yep.. they can have 'bad' results too, but you can always consider diluting with water or even hot oil on the poofy part.

I had a panic attack earlier when I saw her biting her foot! I thought maybe she'd picked up a flea(s) yesterday...but low and behold it was a big mat in between her toes. lol.......I just snipped it out, since I just trimmed her feet last month and its all grown back already! But, I won't complain..rather have that than fleas.

PS. Melissa, I'm sure the playing would contribute to the breakage. I thought I mentioned that, but it is probably the only real 'beni' to having a singleton  boohoo. A playmate would be worth the extra breakage. I can't imagine not letting dogs play to preserve a coat, that'd be tough! Stogie's coat looks amazing, btw.
Kara


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I agree Kara, I was using Ice on Ice once, and it was drying them out. Now I use Coat Handlers Conditioner dilluted with water. Or I use Fabulous Grooming Spray that Karen Ku likes. 

Goldie bites at her feet when she mats also. I am going to let her grow out again..sigh... but her coat is so thick, Im not sure how long I can take it. its amazing how different it is from Stogies. 

I find the hair around their mouth breaks. Im trying to figure out if they chew on it themselves, or chew on each others. 

The other day Goldie was dragging Stogie around the hardwoods by his neck hair. He loves it, I had a Heart attack. HAHAHA


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

> The other day Goldie was dragging Stogie around the hardwoods by his neck hair. He loves it, I had a Heart attack. HAHAHA


ound: I would've LOVED to have seen that!!!!!! haha.

Oh, the Ice on Ice was the WORST. I wish I could send all that crap back. Out of everything I've tried, I still like the Pantene Blonde expressions and the Eqyss...they seem to agree well with her coat.

I'm not sure if I'll even survive this thick/coat blowing nightmare. She was almost on her way to becoming corded this morning. lol.. I kid not. But since she'd tries to bite out her mats, that might be disasterous. lol

Kara


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I haven't found Ice on Ice to work on any of the dogs I've groomed. Blech!

Melissa, you would have been pointing and laughing at Hillary when we were in New Mexico. Piaget had just started a really bad habit of grabbing her tail and pulling her around the room, so she was getting mats by the hour. I decided to fix it by putting some Vet Wrap around her tail, but all I could find at that late date was hot pink. It looked hilarious to see this beautiful black dog with a hot pink arch going over her back. We got a lot of double-takes. It worked until he pulled that off!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

It was interesting to see the top dogs in the ring and the coats at Euk. Some actually had coats all the way to the ground- like the maltese or shih tzu do. Then others had pretty broken or shorter coats. I know coat is only one factor of the dog and obviously I couldn't get my hands on them to tell others <darn it!> But I did see some dogs that Dora actually had a longer coat then so there is a lot to genetics with coat. I thought at this point, they probably know how to take care of a coat but only so much you can do. Then there were other ones that I know there is probably no way their havanese goes hiking every sunday! <BG>

Amanda


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Kimberly,I might have to start using that on Kodi's tail. Shelby grabs on to it and pulls him around. He used to have a beautiful plume, and now it's half as full as it was. He can't grab hers, because she has one of those tightly curled tails. But, he does get her around the neck, and that's where most of her mats are. :frusty:

I didn't like the Ice on Ice, either.


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