# My Sad Boy? Help!



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I thought I would start a new thread on this - because I really would love some input on what we could do to make Jasper happier--- I know I need to take what the pet communicator said with a little bit of a grain of salt-- but she really seemed to sum up his mood. I hate to think of him as depressed. it breaks my heart. As you can see in all our pictures he from time to time gets active-and acts like a not even 2 year old dog -but he does mainly lay around. he seeks us out more than he did as a puppy but he still spends a lot of time alone. Cash and he do toss and tumble but I wonder if he likes that. Here's the summary of our session... I really would love some input. He deserves to be a Happy Hav.



> We spent most of the time on Jasper. Cash is just fine --- his job is to make us laugh and he is happy in that roll. he is a big sloppy goof ball even though he's a small dog. She also said that puppies don't communicate in the same way older dogs do-
> 
> Jasper was guarded at first ---" I am alright" (big surprise there)
> 
> ...


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

When I saw an animal communicator at the show in Denver she said Mirabel and one of my other dogs would like to do agility. Maybe something like that or rally. I like the idea of rally since you can actually talk to your dogs along the course. It would give him something to do and be proud of and could give him some special one on one time if it is just him.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Missy, do take what the communicator said with a grain of salt. If you focus too much on Jasper BEING depressed, and you begin to feel sorry for him, he will pick up on what you are feeling and BE depressed. Perhaps enroll him in a class, so that he can use his mind and spend some one on one time with you or your husband. That will give him a job to do because he has to focus and do the obedience. Havanese are known for their intelligence and they need brain activity otherwise they get bored and begin misbehaving out of sheer boredom. Some need more stimulation than others, just like people and with that one on one attention, I am sure Jasper will thrive while taking him away from the everyday. Hugs to you, and do your best to not overly worry, as they are so sensitive they will feel they DO have something to worry about. Hugs to you. :grouphug:


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

Hey Missy I tried to Pm you but your box is full.

You know I have three boys and they each have very different personalities.

Reece is also somewhat of a loner, he will sometimes play with Preston and Nigel and sometimes he just watches from afar. He is not one that want to be cuddled but prefers to lay at your feet. He is a kisser though. He does follow me around most of the day, but it's not unusual to find him under my bed. I don't think that he is depressed I just think it is his personality. 

Preston is very laid back, but likes to play rough with the boys. He will lay in your arms, not much of a kisser though and he follows me around, and goes under the bed with Reece from time to time, I wonder whats under that bed, maybe I should check. Preston is my talker, he whines when he wants something and will give you those sweet puppy dog eyes.

Nigel is the wild man of the house, I call him Dennis the Meance. He has calmed down some since learning some manners. If he sees someone else getting lovings he is right there trying to move them out of the way because oh pet me pet me. He is a pest to Preston, always wanting to play, and will lay in your arms and give kisses, he follows me everywhere and is a ball of energy. He knows how to work the cuteness factor.

I guess what I am trying to say is maybe Jasper is just Jasper, I have three and they are totally different, just like kids.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Hmmm, I just don't know. What I do know is that my two have different personalities. Shelby is the clown, cuddler, kisser of the two. Kodi is very sweet, laid back. When we are home, he will sleep behind my chair on the floor. Shelby sleeps right out where everyone can see her, ususally on top of the sofa pillows. But, if Kodi is bored and wants to play, he will bark at you to let you know. 

Shelby is the one that will run up to people and dogs first. Kodi will lag behind until I tell him to go say hello. 

Shelby whines all the time. Sometimes because she is hungry, sometimes who knows? Kodi sometimes has a sad look on his face and we can't figure out why. 

Jas may just be the laid back one in the pack, not 100% of his position. That is what I think has Kodi confused right now and we are trying to remedy it.


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

I too, would suggest some kind of training class. Rally is lots of fun. I haven't tried agility, because no one offers it near me, but it is great for building the dogs confidence and bonding. Personally I don't put much faith in "dog communicators" I'm a skeptic. But I do believe that dogs need jobs and need to be challenged on a daily basis to keep them happy and healthy. I wish you the best of luck.:hug:


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I agree with what everyone else, maybe try something one on one with Jasper. Maybe walks by himself, or something to entertain his analytical mind.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Awwww. Jasper sounds like one of my favorite Havanese. She isn't bouncy, cheery and perky now that she no longer a puppy, but she is content to just lay next to her people and be where they are. I actually love that about her. She is different and loyal to her people. I think Jasper is just very different from Cash, and that's OK too. Embrace the differences and try not to worry about Jasper. He's just Jasper!


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Missy, I am another one that strongly believes these guys need a job.

When I think back to when I brought my boys over to play Jasper & Monte were the ones that sat back and watched as Riley & Cash ran around playing. Monte had just finished getting all his shots and was just starting to learn how to socialize, he also did not have Riley’s no fear of life attitude and was timid around other dogs. I knew this was something I was going to have to work on so I decided to start Obedience training with him. Missy I will have to bring him back down and let you tell me if I have a different dog than the first one I brought over, you will be completely shocked, this little guy has come completely out of his shell.
You said Jasper is not food driven but I also remember when the treat’s came out and it was time for the boys to perform Jasper was more than happy to show off his tricks. Could it have been he did not really want the treat but just loves to perform?? 
I agree and think you should try a class with him, not a personal trainer coming to the house. I think personal trainers are great for issues, I have used private lessons myself but only for things I am having troubles training (getting Riley to sit stay) I think putting them in a class with other dogs not only helps in socializing but also gives them a drive when they see other dogs performing.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I think a lot of people here let you know they just have different personalities. I would totally agree with that. My maltese is the life of every party running around being crazy and people either totally love Belle or hate her (the more you are like Belle... the more you like her)! Dora on the other hand is quiet and keeps to herself. She won't play with dogs until she totally trust them. Belle has never met a dog she hasn't tried to boss around.

Just the other day, I took them to a toy dog park (gotta love LA!) and you would have thought a great dane was trying to kill Dora. A little chi-pom was trying to play with her and she ran and jumped in my lap. Where as Belle was chasing all the dog and barking! I looked like the person who has never socialized her puppy! Dora wanted on my lap the entire time. Here she has all these fancy letters after her name showing she is totally trained but she is very sensitive. 

Dora is just different than Belle and I kind of think of it like people just different. I will say that Dora is a different dog when it is just the 4 of us at home, she wants to play, run around, etc. When we are in big group settings, she doesn't act the same- she isn't as comfortable in her surroundings. 

I will always say training classes are great but they are often the best for insecure dogs. Because they are given something to do and rather than worrying about everything else, they worry about performing that given task. I will say my girls have been trained together. Isabelle either does very well or really bad! I swear some people have to watch me walk in the ring and think it was my first day ever doing anything! Where as Dora is a good reliable dog. She may not take first place but she is usually second or third and has only not qualified once- she laid down to itch and got back up after she realized she did something wrong. When it is just me and her in the ring, she is confident because she knows it is just like when we play at home.

I would also agree with Melissa about walking him alone. I tend to walk Belle- she listens to me better and my husband takes Dora for her alone time. Dora loves this actually. It gives her special time to sniff and do her own thing. Maybe try it and see how he acts. He may like Cash there to help him feel more secure though.

Amanda


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Thanks guys--- We do take him out sometimes seperately but probably not enough. The fact that she came up with out of the blue and yet we have worried is what struck me as something I should pay attention to. He sometimes spends a good part of the day out in the garage on the step down to their potty room-- he spends more time with us than he did as a puppy but he definately has his moods. I am going to take him on a nice walk alone tonight when I get home. and maybe work with him on obedience or tricks. I just want him to be happy.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

He may be happy Missy.....and humans are "reading depression" into it.Maybe Jasper is just kinda like the fat guy that likes to lay around and watch TV.....but Cash is like the althletic skinny guy who uses all his free time playing basketball.Every person is different and so are dogs.I just think you are worrying and should just instead embrace their differences.Don't worry so much!:hug:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Julie, I think I have mis represented my opinion of Jas. I love him to pieces. He is my little human hav. I have had more than one stranger say to me "he's like a little person" He just has very human expressions and ways about him. (we don't treat him like a human however) he has a very cute way of asking to go out--- He comes and sits in front of us and if we don't respond he paws at us. and if we still don't respond he does this cute little grumble with the pawing. No one gives kisses like Jasper- he will stare into your eyes and size up your face and then get you right on the lips--- look at you again and then kiss you again. when we come home his greeting always make my heart melt. 

But, this is a dog who runs and hides when I make his dinner--- not very dog like-- A dog who on the hottest day of the year spent the day holed up in the hottest place in the house. Most of the time I just say he is pretty low energy and that is just Jasper- but it is these types of things that make me worry- Even when he was 5 wks his breeder said he was very independent. 

Cash is not all that high energy either (for a puppy) - and has learned to like his alone time -- but he always checks back with us- On some days the only time we see jasper is if he needs something (to go out.) 

Maybe, this communicator just read my mind and picked up on my worry-- and I should just stop worrying.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Missy- I agree with the others that each Hav has their own personality. My first Hav was people oriented (not dog), loved to just relax and lay around us, and didn't have the strong "play" instinct that Maddie has. Maddie loves everyone (dogs and people), and is a bouncy, happy Havanese. I do agree also that obedience, agility or a rally class can do wonders for a dog's self-esteem. Maddie literally smiles and runs to the car when it is class time. My first Hav loved her obedience classes also. Maddie is in agility now, and is having alot of fun, and it gives you one on one time with your dog as a bonus. Giving Jasper a "job" could do wonders for him. Just as an aside, I'd also have a blood panel run (unless you already have) just to make sure he's in tip top health. I'm sure there's nothing wrong, but you just want to eliminate everything. Jasper is probably just a more quiet dog, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Missy, i do have to say that sounds somewhat like Dreamer. She is independant in the fact that if i am not available for attention she would just rather sit in her crate by herself or lay in the sun outside. She LOVES to be outside in the heat. At times she will socialize with the other pups but not as often as i would like. I used to worry about her when i 1st got her but i am realizing it is just her personality. She is just very sweet & calm most of the time. Sometimes she will get a 'wild hair' & go crazy running around etc...I LOVE it when she does that but again, its not often.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

> Just as an aside, I'd also have a blood panel run (unless you already have) just to make sure he's in tip top health. I'm sure there's nothing wrong, but you just want to eliminate everything. Jasper is probably just a more quiet dog, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.


Jeanne, I should know this for sure- but wouldn't they have done a whole blood panel when they took blood for being on the heart worm medication back in april when they did his rabies booster?


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Missy said:


> But, this is a dog who runs and hides when I make his dinner--- not very dog like-- A dog who on the hottest day of the year spent the day holed up in the hottest place in the house. Most of the time I just say he is pretty low energy and that is just Jasper- but it is these types of things that make me worry- Even when he was 5 wks his breeder said he was very independent.
> 
> Maybe, this communicator just read my mind and picked up on my worry-- and I should just stop worrying.


Hi Missy,

I'm sorry to hear that Jasper seems down. It is hard not to worry since we love our Havs so much! I'd agree that dogs can pick up on our worry and I think it can make _them_ worry!

I was just wondering about Jasper hiding when you make his dinner - is there some sound that bothers him (like a can opener, etc.) during the process? Does he like to eat or not? Maybe he finds eating unpleasant for some reason (maybe a tooth that hasn't descended or some hidden physical reason)?

Also, I forgot how old Jasper is now - I noticed a big change around 18-20 months in Lincoln - he really really slowed down from being totally hyper to becoming a bum which I think for him was just natural maturity, but I can see if someone suggested to me that he was bored or depressed, I'd be very concerned about that. Just some thoughts. I hope all will be well him and that you'll have peace about it all soon. Keep us posted!


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

When I'm preparing their food, Kodi lays under the dining room table. He doesn't come out until I put it down and leave the kitchen. Shelby will wait in the kitchen and run to her dish.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Jeanne, Shannon, Jane, Michele, I love hearing your stories of your less than bubbling over dogs. Dreamer sounds like Jasper. And yes Jasper waits like Kodi--- I makes me feel not so quite alone. He does have his moments of RLH and playfulness. 

He does eventually come out and eat after Cash has. (she said this isn't in deference to Cash but a case of control- he feels like he is cleaning up) In fact he is eating better now than he ever has although he only eats once a day. but now he eats a whole bowl. 

Since he has always been a finicky eater I have had his teeth checked. When he was 12 weeks get a hold of a rug with staples in it and it stapled his jaw together. (I felt so guilty not having checked for it) But he has been checked after that. 

Jane, I did wonder if it was a noise-- sometimes the NV frozen medallions get stuck together so I bang the bag on the counter-- But I have stopped doing that but maybe he is conditioned already. Jassy is 18 months and he did play a little more as a puppy-- but this is not a new thing- he has always 
hung out away from us. But it has become a little more obvious since Cash is usually in the room with us. 

I mean he could just use the garage as his downstairs crate. He has to go through the doggy door and it's nice and enclosed and Cash usually leaves him alone out there. Maybe I am just thinking about it too much.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Missy said:


> Jane, I did wonder if it was a noise-- sometimes the NV frozen medallions get stuck together so I bang the bag on the counter-- But I have stopped doing that but maybe he is conditioned already. Jassy is 18 months and he did play a little more as a puppy-- but this is not a new thing- he has always
> hung out away from us. But it has become a little more obvious since Cash is usually in the room with us.


I could see how a loud banging sound might be scary and how Jasper would associate that sound with being fed. Maybe he could be reconditioned though to sit closer to you when you are preparing the food (with some doggie appetizers? hee hee). Or maybe after awhile, he'll realize that you aren't making that sound anymore while making his food 

Lincoln has also hung out away from us. He is a naturally more independent dog. He is definitely not a lapdog and wants cuddles maybe twice a week or so. Of course, we can't resist the puffball, so he gets more cuddling than that, but it is all initiated by us. When he actually comes to us for cuddles, he gets a generous helping from us. Since we got Scout, who is extremely jealous and IS a lapdog/cuddler, Lincoln will not compete with him for cuddles. But I don't interpret that as him being depressed; I know Lincs is naturally more submissive and he chooses not to "fight" for most things. He will only squash Scout when Scout does something really obnoxious or if he tries to steal a chewie that Lincoln REALLY wants to have. Otherwise, he gives in to him and he is okay with that - although *I* wasn't comfortable with that! Early on, I tried to intervene (like with human children), teaching them to share, giving Lincoln back the stolen item, etc. but it backfired. Dogs are comfortable with heirarchy, even though sometimes we (and I!) are not. And it is definitely easy to misread submission as depression.

I like all the suggestions for extra one-on-one attention for Jasper. You cannot go wrong with that!! And it'll be great for both you and Jas! :hug:


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Missy said:


> I thought I would start a new thread on this - because I really would love some input on what we could do to make Jasper happier--- I know I need to take what the pet communicator said with a little bit of a grain of salt-- but she really seemed to sum up his mood. I hate to think of him as depressed. it breaks my heart. As you can see in all our pictures he from time to time gets active-and acts like a not even 2 year old dog -but he does mainly lay around. he seeks us out more than he did as a puppy but he still spends a lot of time alone. Cash and he do toss and tumble but I wonder if he likes that. Here's the summary of our session... I really would love some input. He deserves to be a Happy Hav.


Missy, first I'd take him in for a full vet check including blood panels, etc. If he's not acting like a typical dog, he may have something going on....maybe an allergy or ?


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Missy said:


> Jeanne, I should know this for sure- but wouldn't they have done a whole blood panel when they took blood for being on the heart worm medication back in april when they did his rabies booster?


Missy- The blood work they take for heartworm medication is a specific test just to determine if they already have the heartworm parasite. If they do, then it can be dangerous to give the medication. You would have to ask the vet for a full blood panel to check kidneys, liver, diabetes, etc. I always ask for a CBC with that to make sure there is no hidden infection going on. Maybe Jasper had a complete blood test when he was neutered? Many vets recommend it before undergoing anesthesia. In any case, I'm a firm believer in getting a baseline blood panel on your Havanese for future reference in case any illness develops. I have one on Maddie and will probably repeat it every year or two. As I said, I'm sure Jasper is fine healthwise and its just his personality. But a blood panel is good to have anyway.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Jeanne, Jan, Jane, I think I will get a blood screening for Jassy- I will probably get a baseline for Cash too. But I came home last night to a Jasper the dog-- not Jasper the cat. Michael was home yesterday and the boys spent the entire day out of doors. Michael Gave Jasper the Job to chase the squirrells (not sure if I approve) But when I got home Jasper was playing with Cash and actually playing tug of war with a raw hide chew. He came and hung out in the living room with us. And at dinner time he didn't run to his room in the garage but hung out under the dining room table. After dinner I took Jassy for a walk by himself. This morning he did spend some time in the garage but later came in and wrestled with Cash for a raw hide again (of course there are always enough for both dogs they (usually Cash) just wants what the other one has) 

He has always had moments like this--- it was just nice to see it. I have been giving him the rescue remedy- and have told him his job is to watch out for us and the house. But I think I agree with everyone here that this is just who Jassy is. And we love him for his independence as long as he is not depressed.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Julie said:


> He may be happy Missy.....and humans are "reading depression" into it.Maybe Jasper is just kinda like the fat guy that likes to lay around and watch TV.....but Cash is like the althletic skinny guy who uses all his free time playing basketball.Every person is different and so are dogs.I just think you are worrying and should just instead embrace their differences.Don't worry so much!:hug:


Missy-
Maybe I didn't really say it correctly.I'm not meaning there is anything wrong with either of your boys.Just a difference in dogs,like a difference in people.I remember you telling how Cash had brought Jasper out of his shell alittle and he ate better after you got Cash too.This is probably just Jasper's personality.I hate to see you or anyone worry.......I bet your boys are just fine.Sometimes in really hot weather,they do get sluggish and lay around and sleep more.Sounds like you dedicate time to each dog individually too.That is great!eace:


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

Missy. Sounds like Jasper has normal sibling behavior. Things changed since Cash came along. I don't think that is unusual whether four legged or two. You can have 10 kids and when you have number 10, 1-9 all say life changed......... (Not that I have 10 kids but I know someone who does)

Houston has a very aloof personality. It is just how he was from day one. I think different dogs (like people) have different personalities.

Do try to give him a purpose. Try to take him separately to classes or try agility. I am sure that will help.

I do believe in the cat thing. My old dog thought she was a cat and acted just like one. And guess what, she had a jingle ball and loved it!!!!!!!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

thanks Rita. I love Houston's new picture in your avatar. he has gotten so big and I love his coloring!


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Missy, 
You are such a good Mom to your boys!  Just know that Jasper could not be in a better home, he knows how much you love him. You will get this figured out, sounds like you are on the right track. 

I think giving him a purpose makes sense and the alone time seems important also.

I have an appointment with the dog communicator next week.:biggrin1:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Thanks for the encouragement Lynn. When do you get to pick up your new baby girl?


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

At your suggestions for alone time---For the last two nights I have been taking Jasper for a little walk by himself after dinner--- I have been letting him just be a dog on these walks--- he can sniff all he wants--- he can pull on the leash a little-- he just can't bark or growl at cars.... We have told him repeatedly that is his job to watch over the us and the house and alert us but then let us take care of it. Michael has given him the job of chasing squirells from our yard. and I also have been giving him a little of the rescue remedy. He has seemed so much brighter and wanting to be with us abit more. He has even wrestled Cash for a rawhide chip. Last night he wanted to stay on the bed instead of his usual- I want my crate. After we put him down he started pawwing at the bed to get back up (he has graduated to having the door of his crate open) Once back up on the bed --at 3 in the morning he was driving Michael crazy by moving around too much. But he wanted to be with his pack!!!!


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Missy said:


> Thanks for the encouragement Lynn. When do you get to pick up your new baby girl?


That is great news Missy! Out of the things you tried, can you tell by Jasper's response what he likes the most? What does the rescue remedy do? And how much do you give him?

You will have to let us know how the rest of the weekend goes with the boys, I am curious as to if Jasper will keep up this behavior.

I ask that because I have been trying something this weekend with husband gone, Casper has a tendency to bark more. So I told him he could be in charge of alerting me of things, then I check them out and he doesn't bark so long. I had to go out and look for the raccoons last night, though to get him to stop barking:jaw: which I don't normally do. But I came back and said I didn't see anything and he went back to sleep:biggrin1:

I should be getting my new baby girl in mid-October, there is no definite date set at this time. I will let you know the date as soon as a date is set. The breeder is busy with puppies and shows, so I am trying not to bug her.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Lynn, well he loves chasing squirrels. And now instead of saying No we say ok get them out of our yard. and instead of saying "no don't bark"- we say thankyou, we've got it now-- we'll take care of it. He is still barking up a storm-- but it seems to be less intense. 

The rescue remedy is marketed as yoga in a bottle. It is supposed to be calming and really help with anxiety. I have been giving him two tiny drops mixed with yogurt and a drop in their water. I have also been giving him for the past two days a bit of the dandelion leaf tea mixed in with the yogurt too yogurt--- who couldn't use a little liver support and I figure they could eat the dandelions in the wild. 

Isn't that interesting about Casper going back to sleep. Maybe they just need permission to do what they are wired to do- but to set limits instead of eliminating what it is they do naturally. 

Can't wait to see more picts of your new baby girl and I can't wait hear how much fun Casper has with his new baby sister.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Missy, I think of you every night when I see Brady wake up out of a deep sleep and his eyes light up when the cat arrives upstairs meowing with a toy and drops it for him. He loves his dog toys, but nothing compares to the kitty toys. He thinks they are the greatest! I am tempted to try out the pet communicator one of these days. I am glad to hear that Jasper seems happier.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Karen, that is such a funny story, I remember it from another thread. Maybe we should have brought a cat into the house for Jasper instead of Cash-- LOL Oh right- I am terribly allergic to cats... Well Cash proceeded to destroy DESTROY all of Jaspers new cat toys one short afternoon and they were just shreds of plastic (that I was worried could be swallowed) fur, and stuffing. Poor Jasper didn't even get a chance to play with them for a second- but Cash sure liked them. 

Oh the other thing I did this morning, Is I started gently massaging the area's she said were bothering him, his jaw, around his eyes and his sternum. MY Jassy was in heaven, My Jassy, who really doesn't like to be touched. practically purred. I think i would be afraid to take him to a chiropractor as she suggested- but a little massage never hurt any living creature.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Missy I'm so glad to hear how all these small changes are making a differance in Jasper. Sitting here reading all your updates has put a big smile on my face.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Wonderful news, Missy! It sounds like Jasper is happy with the changes in his life. You're such a loving Mom to your two boys. They are lucky to have you!


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Missy,

How wonderful! You are so sweet to try so many new things for Jasper - it is encouraging to hear he is really enjoying them! :whoo:


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Just to say, these Havs are so sensitive. While we were on vacation, they played on the beach and took long walks a few times a day. Since we've been home, we are back to that schedule, and I see a difference in them. They are crazier, running around and barking all day. They want our constant attention, just like they had on vacation.

So, maybe that's all Jas needed. Just a little special time of his own. He seems to be responding to everything you are doing. I think now you have created a monster. :biggrin1:


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

Great news Missy. It seems Jasper is responding well. I guess it is true that we all have a purpose in life but sometimes we just have to find it.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

*Something's working!*

So I am not sure to what we owe this but it has been 14 days since the communicating with the communicator. Jasper has more energy he wants to be with us a little more. When outside in the yard, he is initiating play with Cash more often. And when he is barking he usually stops once I say "thank you --I will take care of it." He is even pulling on his leash less at cars.
I mean he is still Jasper and will still retreat-- but we have noticed a big difference

here's what we are doing

-4 drops of rescue remedy mixed with a bit of yogurt and 
-a pinch of dandelion greens 
-We've given him the Jobs of watching the house and chasing squirrels from  the yard
-And we are spending a little more alone time with him - but not too much.

And then the thing we've done and I am wondering if this could have been the problem all along- is about a month ago we stopped giving them the Rabbit Jerky Fillets because they were made in China. Jasper has been eating those since he was a wee pup --- often it was the only thing I could get him to eat. 
Now these were not on the recall list- but do you think some chemical or the irradiation or even bacteria was depressing him?

I know Kara, said in another post that she noticed Gucci had a lot more energy when she stopped feeding her them. But Kara went to an all home cooked diet so I am sure that had something to do with it.

Just wanted to update you all.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Missy - we just had the same situation with Lexi. She was always very quiet, in the background, barely played, Never played with toys. She has always been sweet & cuddly but not real active.
Once she showed a possible food allergy we switched her food, and started giving her a tbsp of yogurt a day - AND NOW WATCH OUT!!
She went from that quiet little girl, to running around, playing, wrestling for toys, and just happy go lucky. Her eyes are brighter and she pays attention to us more, and begs for more attention now. She went from pooping 2x a day - little hard marbles --- to pooping 3-4x a day, normal poops. Poor thing, it seems all along she was just uncomfortable from constipation. So I truely believe that food,chemicals, etc all play a part in the way our dogs are!!
I am glad you guys are doing better too!!
Laurie


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Wow Missy! That is super fantabulous!!!!!! :whoo: 

Ya know, Gucci was pretty much LIVING off the jerky there for awhile, because she was refusing her kibble SO often that I would crack and feel guilty and think she was starving...and offer her more/extra jerky.

Now, I am really kicking myself in the ARSE for that, because the jerky was basically NOTHING nutritious. The irradiation destroyed the darned thing...it was like feeding her plastic. :frusty: She has started to get a bit finicky w/ the homecooked but nowhere near as bad as with the kibble.

I noticed alot more playfulness, less naps, more alert, etc. It was nice to see that!

I am a firm believer of "jobs". I can't remember which book I read that convinced me of them, but it basically said it made them feel happier, because they have a "place/part in the pack", because in the wild, a pack has a heirarchy AND jobs. And we humans often don't make our dogs do anything. It was a really interesting read, I will try to find the book and let you know. 

I hope the products you are using are helping too! They don't seem to be hurting, that's for sure. 

Kara


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

What sort of jobs can you give a dog?? Any ideas?? I like that idea..

Ryan


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

I agree to all the hav. have there own personality thats why breeders try to match the dog with the owner some are happy all the time other are high strong and so just are loner like Yoda he will play if I thro the ball and he will play with the kitten but for the most part he would rather be laying by him self doing nothing I would not get to worried do some one on one you will see every thing will be ok


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Missy and Laurief........I am so happy Jasper and Lexi are all doing better. Constipation could be a real downer for any animal. I’ve never given it much thought where Smarty is concerned, but she does have some days when she is quieter than others. Whatever you are doing seems to be helping so keep it up.

Ryan; anything can be their job. In the wild you have the hunters, the guards, and the nurturer. Play can even be their job. Smarty is allowed to let us know something is going on outside. She also has to chase her ball and/or rope frisbee everyday. She takes them out and brings them in. No treats until they are in the house. He agility school is a job. She does the task, gets praise and reward. 99% of the time she is a very happy puppy, the other 1% she is in trouble for still getting into everything. I think she thinks that is her main job, finding something she is not suppose to have.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

freeway1976 said:


> What sort of jobs can you give a dog?? Any ideas?? I like that idea..
> 
> Ryan


Sandi hit alot of them!

Gucci's job is "watchdog", she alerts me if someone is here or comes home. Yes, she is allowed to bark, but once I acknowledge her and thank you, that means "I see the person and I will take over", she usually (95% of the time) stops barking once I give the signal, which is the "shhhh-quiet" gesture. If she keeps barking..she doesn't "like" the person for whatever reason. It happens occasionally.

Her other "job" is to keep ducks out of the pool, she has gotten SO good at sensing them, she knows when they are near our house in the pond (before they even come on our property) She will bark to go out and chase them away.

Other jobs....can be fetching the newspaper, remote control, etc. whatever you want to train them to do.

I think the BEST job for her is letting her be watchdog. I know that is controversial, but I think it makes her feel *good* that she protects us/alerts us. You should see her FLYYYYY off the couch or bed when she hears something.......she practically flies! LOL

Kara


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Thanks all: Laurie that is wonderful about Lexi--- out of curiosity what did you change her food to? always looking for more ideas. 

I think allowing Jas to watch and alert has given him pride--- instead of feeling down that what he did so well he was being scolded for. And he loves his job of squirrel chaser--- he just better not catch one!!! LOL


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh gosh, Missy! I never thought about one of our Havs actually catching a squirrel! Yikes! We get squirrels running through our yard often, even when the dogs are out there. They just sit on their rear ends and look up and watch quietly, trying to see what the little monkeys are doing jumping off the roof, on to the arbor, and over the fountain where they can't go.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I don't know if the dogs can catch them, but my cats can. Believe me, I know.
I'm really glad that Jas is finding himself. am having some behavior problems with Kodi. I might have to hire a trainer to come to the house, or call Cesar.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Missy, that is wonderful news!!! I am so happy for you, hubby and the boys. After all, we want our Havs to be healthy, happy and fulfilled in a way that is compatible with our own lives and giving them 'jobs' is a great way to do that. 

Ryan, I too, am having a bit of a time figuring out what jobs to give my two. I suppose I'll look at things differently tomorrow and see what behaviors they have that I can reward, such as when Sammy scratches at the patio door when one of our cats is there, wanting to come in. Of course Sammy and Ricky just want the door open so they can 'sic him' but maybe I can turn that around somehow! lol Definitely food for thought. 

So glad to hear things are better, Missy. I've been thinking about Jasper lately. We are like one huge family and when some of the pups aren't quite up to par, it affects all of us.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I am a firm believer in changing the diet .. My dogs both seem so much better now that they have a healthy diet .. I agree with the person who brought up the treats . They really do not need all those treats we give them .. 
I notice such a difference in Cosmo this year that he is not in puppy class and being given all those treats . I tried to keep them healthy but once he found the teachers treats he was a goner .. I think her stuff just had too many preservatives .. 
As to jobs - my two have not quite figured out their job but for now I tell them the fact that they are adapting so well to all the new people and the ongoing construction is a great job... it is very disruptive for us all and they are handling it the best . Everyone else is just so tired of the lack of privacy .. and inconvenience .. Not them - they love to see all the new faces .. 
Ahnold ( my little guy ) has taken on making sure the deer keep moving . he is so funny - he can smell a deer a mile away and he seeks them out to tell them move on .. He does it in a nice way so I say thank you .. Cosmo just looks at them but I think he is very impressed by Ahnold and how well he manages to keep the deer away from the fence line ..
Cosmo thinks it is his job to chew the flossies as fast as he can ..


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I think some dogs tell you what "job" *they* want! ound: These lil' ones ARE probably smart enough to sense out what position needs to be filled in the pack.

I will be curious to see if Jas's new "watchdog" position makes him more aggressive or loving. There are split schools of thought on that, and I tend to think it has made Gucci more loving towards us. You protect those you love, right?

She knows there are rules, like she can't do it on walks, etc. Although there have been a few times that someone has startled her, she'll turn around and a stranger is there and she gets a bit scared, so she'll bark, she likes to know what is going on around her all the time.

I'm not totally convinced that "affection" is considered job by a dog. I've never rewarded her with treats for her "jobs", but only "affection/praise" type reinforcement, and now...she will come to me and get her affection afterwards! and also give some affection back.

Some people have trained their dogs to pick up their toys! LOL, now THAT is pretty darn cool, but I don't see that happening here. The few times I've tried to teach her that, she thinks it is "playtime" with the toys. hah

Kara


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

My issue that i am having with Tripp is that shortly after he turned 1(on 6/12) his energy level went way down, like he almost seems sad. He was such an energetic little guy with so much personality. We thought he was sad because he really didnt have anyone to play with(Dreamer, like Lexi, was very quiet, stayed in the backround). So that is why we got Jax. Now he does play more but he is just not the same.
I am not sure i really understand 'giving them a job'. He is allowed to alert us when someone comes or to protect us from the neighbors cows, chase squirrels etc... I did just switch back to feeding raw to Jax & Tripp(Dream wont touch it). So we will see if that helps.

Even when we are with the trainer, he doesnt want to participate. He just lays down & wont budge unless i force him. He eats & drinks well but he just seems sad at times.....


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Shannon, try the rescue remedy. I think they do slow down a lot. but I truly believe if he looks sad he may be sad. I also have been wondering if the mostly protein diet has been slowing them down. Carbs do provide energy- I've been trying to add a little left over pasta or rice or potato to their mostly all protein diet. Boy do they gobble it up if it is people carbs. If it's a higher carb kibble they won't touch it.


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

Laurie that is a good Idea I know Yoda had food allerys too I will have to try the yogurt thing on yoda .I am going up north for a while my mom is having back surgery so I have to help out with that .So I will not be on line for a while.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Missy, i thought rescue remedy is mainly to calm upset/hyper dogs. What does it do for them? I did change their diet a few times but he did seem the best when he was on the raw. I had stopped feeding that months ago because i added Angel Eyes & he HATED it. He wouldnt even look at his food for awhile-he didnt trust me!! Plus he always was scratching & it stopped when he was on the raw. It started again when i took him off of it.

He is soooo sweet though. You pick him up & just licks you to death.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Shannon,

That is just WAYYY too young for Tripp to lose energy!  Have you thought about calling the doggie communicator? So many people on here have had great results with her. I would probably call if a problem arose.

I would look at diet, too. I think that plays a big role in how they act and the energy they have.

Kara


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Shannon, the rescue remedy is promoted as Yoga in a Bottle. it is so gentle-- who knows if it really works. But the communicator explained it that dogs can slow down if they are anxious-- more hesitant with activity--- Does Tripp also bark at doors or at cars? His life has changed a lot since JAX. he may need a little help.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Maybe he feels displaced? Or sad because Jax is getting all that new puppy attention (that we HAVE to give puppies) Have you thought about spending some time w/ him just ALONE? Like a walk?

I still vote for the communicator! lol I am pretty impressed with her so far.

Kara


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Shannon, does Tripp get to go on regular walks? I don't recall your dog walking routine if you have one. Does he like to play fetch? I'm wondering if he has had too much freedom in just laying around like human teenagers can do - if they can lay around, they _will_ lay around. Once they start expending energy and getting their body in shape, they have more energy to do more.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

He was like this before we got Jax. He has been a lot more active since Jax came along. So if anything, that has been a good thing. He still does the RLH & he does run around a lot. But the down times-when he is just laying around-thats when he seems sad. Maybe i am overreacting, i dont know.

Missy, i live on a lot of acres way off a main road so they dont see cars except for my DH family-they just get excited when they see someone come over.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

I really dont think Jax is an issue. He loves Jax. Since we live on many acres they get to run around several times a day. We had to stop our daily structured walks because it got so hot & Tripp HATES the heat. So he wont go outside unless to potty then its right back in the a/c. 

I cannot take them easily to a 'park' without a 40 minute drive to get there. I tried to take them to the only dog park 40 miles away but everyone was letting their big dogs jump all over mine, grrrr.......... 

I do try to play fetch with him inside but he has never been really into that. He was always outdoors but it was winter when i got him & he LOVED it! We were always outside. Maybe he just got out of shape from being indoors?


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Shannon, I definitely know what you mean about dog parks and big dogs just going crazy on the little ones. I have nothing to complain about as the large majority of dog parks in NY, including the one that's a 10 minute walk from me, has two parks, one for large dogs and one for small dogs under 20lbs. It works out really well! Of course, there's always one 30lb dog that gets snuck in since it seems there's always a lot more dogs in the small dog park than the large one. Otherwise, people are pretty good at keeping to the rules.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Well,

Maybe just spend time with him alone indoors, like playing with toys or a ball or something? I would add some 1 on 1 time and see if that makes any difference?

I hope he's alright. I'd be worried  Does he sleep alot? Or just lay around staring off.

Kara


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I think that's what I have to do with Kodi, also. Spend some more 1-1 time with him. Good advice on this thread.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Hi Shannon:

I'm sorry to hear about Tripp. Do you think he might something health-related that is going on that would make him less eager to move about? My friend's Hav was going on regular walks and then started to hide under the bed when she saw the leash coming - it turned out she had developed arthritis due to a previous injury and it had become painful for her to move about. She's doing much better now on water therapy (doggie treadmill underwater). I hope you are able to find something to help him soon.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Thank you Jane & everyone. Yes i had him to the vet this month. All was ok. Its not like he is lethargic. I mean he does play a lot(more since Jax came) but its just in his 'down' time he just seems sad. He will lay there & just look around...... I do TRY to do 1 on 1 with them, its just hard & you feel so guilty for leaving one behind.

I do think Kimberly, you made A LOT of sense in the fact that since he hates the heat & does not want to be too active now, he is somewhat out of shape & has gotten lazy. I have had to reduce his caloric intake so he does not gain weight due to his inactivity. But if he hates the heat should i still walk him??

Thats why i cant wait for cooler weather. So we can all be outdoors again. I just joined a gym-maybe i can bring him with me!!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Shannon, do you have cooler weather in the early morning or late evenings when you can walk him?

I've only been to Virginia once and it was October. I have no idea what the heat and humidity of late summer and early fall are like.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Well Kimberly, i leave when its still dark in the morning, and being out in the stix-there are no lights anywhere, so thats out. I wish i could do it then. The weather here has been crazy, but the heat is sooo oppressive in the afternoon, its not even comfortable after dark. But this weekend is supposed to cool down & hopefully it stays that way.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Shannon, I also am on the east coast so I understand that sometimes Oct is cold, sometimes it is hot, Sept is the same - so maybe it is just the heat. Do you have an area where the pups run on their own, yard? I would watch him in that area on different type of days and you might be able to establish if it is the heat. Today I let the pups out to play on their own. left the door open and within 10 minutes they were back into the air conditioning and doing the RLH game inside. So it really could just be the heat. Hopefully this weekend, when it is finally cooling down, maybe you will be able to see.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Thanks Laurie. We actually have a large fenced in yard they can play in. After thinking about what Kimberly said & talking with my DH we think he is just out of shape since we didnt force him to exercise in the heat. He has energy bursts but then he just stops as to say 'im done!'.

Now that i think about it, we had very cool weather a few weeks ago & they spent all day outside & loved it, i couldnt get them in. I hope i am just worrying for no reason. Its just when we all love our pups so much-you just want to make sure they are healthy & happy.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Shannon, it does sound like heat is a factor in how much energy Tripp seems to have. Now that you've changed to raw, I'll bet there will a bit of difference as well as when the weather starts to cool. 

My BIL's English Setter, Fibo, was quite lethargic for a couple of weeks. They didn't know why and were worried. He wouldn't follow them around the house like he used to. He'd go into his pen, in their garage, on his own and just stay there because he had no energy. They didn't know if he was sad, ill or what, but did see the vet and all was fine. After research and following my suggestion of changing his food, within a day on a new diet the 'old' Fibo was back and running! They said it was an amazing change within less than two days after starting a new diet. they are now giving Orijen.

I think, just as for us humans, the dogs have moods and ups and downs and that food plays a large role in how good they feel. If I eat fast food for a couple of days, I feel like cr*p! lol

I hope to hear things are better soon. Good luck, Shannon!


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

It could be the heat that is slowing him down Yoda hates and I do mean hates the heat if its cold out he acts like his old self but if he is hot then Yoda just lays there with the sad look on his face and when he gets like that I cant even get him to play with me.So when he starts to look sad I turn on the A/C once it cools off real good he is his old happy self again. And I can understand that feeling I hate the heat too.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

*I get so sad...*

...and frustrated. My Jas, who you all know I adore, is going through one of his funks again. He is just escaping to his room (the potty room in the garage) all the time now. He seems to not want to go into the back yard much-- and if Cash is wanting to play-- he runs and hides. I have not seen Cash hurt him in anyway and I tend to doubt that happened because Cash is pretty gentle.

But see this picture below, how they used to share this giant bully stick-- well I just got them another one-- and I just watched Cash running with it towards Jasper and Jas ran inside and hid in his room. So we let Cash stay out and jasper watched him through the door and got excited and looked like he wanted to go out and join him. But when we opened the door and Cash came running to greet him he hid in his room again. This is a New Behaviour!!!

The only thing that is different in his world is our dog walker got herself an employee to help her and we were given to him since we have a fenced yard and he just has to let them out and get them to play. I have met him, and Jasper hadn't warmed up to him yet-- But I have no idea how he interacts with them other than me watching him for a half hour. He seemed fine, and I know Jasper takes a while to warm up to people. And he only comes 2-3 times a week-- other than that I am home.

I mean the other thing is my DH is spending a lot of time in the basement to get ready for a solo art show he is having this weekend. But he is still 
walking them both and still spends time with them.

Any thoughts? I know Jasper will never be the easy going dog Cash is-- but He was doing pretty good. I just hate to see him run from Cash.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Awww, Missy that makes me sad too. Has Jasper had a health check-up lately? That's the first thing that comes to my mind. Other than that it sure seems like he is upset with Cash about something. Will he come outside or chew the bully stick if Cash isn't around?
Carole


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Missy,
I am so sorry Jas is going through this. I don't have much advice. You may want to check and see if he is feeling okay. Brady started leaving the den where we spend most of our time and hiding in the dining room for a week or so not too long ago. He just didn't seem like himself. Anyway, I later noticed he had an ear infection and I think that was just really throwing him off. So, perhaps check his ears and make sure they aren't bothering him or anything. I hope he comes around soon.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I'm so sorry this is happening to that sweet boy. I wish I had an answer for you. I do see Kodi's behavior change once in a while but not to such an extreme as Jasper. Give him another day or two and then maybe take him to the vet.


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Missy I am sorry too although I don't have any words of wisdom.

Can you ask if you can have the previous dog walker back, explaining that Jasper doesn't do well with change? Then if he is still having problems I'd take him to the vet as others have suggested. Dogs often just want to go off alone when they don't feel well.

Good luck.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Missy, I'm so sorry that Jasper is having a difficult time. I wish I could offer words of advice but I can't. It doesn't sound as though anything drastic has changed for Jasper, other than the dog walker but it would seem odd that he'd take it out on Cash. Perhaps during play Cash nipped him or something and he's holding a bit of grudge? Poor guy. I hope it passes soon.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Missy,

Have you talked to your vet about this? Do you have an animal behaviourist near you?

Maybe you should look into an anti-depressant for him. I know some dogs are treated with Prozac or amitryptiline (sp?) (Elavil). I know its not the 'ideal' way to solve a problem, but if you've tried everything else..it may be something to look into.

My mother treated her dog with Prozac during thunderstorms and then again when he got cancer. I know it must be hard to see him acting this way  I wish I had a solution to offer!

Hugs,
Kara


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Missy,

So sorry Jasper is going through this right now. I was just wondering about checking his eyes and hearing. I have heard that dogs will withdraw if they do not see or hear well. Just a thought.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Missy - oh darn, poor Jasper. Your very first post on this was so interesting - I was just observing last night how "cat" like some Havanese can be. Since I've had cats and dogs raised together for so long, I don't notice as much when one behaves like the other. 

While you might think it silly, I did take note that Jasper feels much more comfortable with "cat energy". Have you ever thought about maybe dealing with him like a cat? Not expect as much affection and play and observe whether he's content? Cats seem to have much more contentment than dogs I've noticed.

I'd talk with the vet for sure, but maybe changing your perception might help as well. I have noticed that our little guys sure can be moody.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Thanks guys. They are playing a bit today. All good ideas. As for asking for our dog walker back Jan-- I don't think that is an option. This woman is growing her business and wants to do the doggy day care at her house and is having her employees visit houses (ghrrrr. this has happened to us before) But I am looking into a woman who does the walking and also some behavioral work as well. 

Prozac -- Hmmm? Kara, you have been with this with me from the beginning--so I understand totally where this suggestion comes from--- Oh I just hate the idea of it so. From my own experience, once you are on you can never get off-- But you know, he has been off his Rescue Remedy lately he gets it with his morning yogurt which he has not been eating-- so maybe that has something to do with it. You know the funny thing is thunderstorms, lightening, explosions on tv-- do not phase him 

Marie, The eye sight and hearing is an interesting thing to look into- he does seem to less confident jumping up on his chair-- and he runs when we make "freezer noise" I have always chalked it up to his sensitivity. 

Lisa, We pretty much let him be and act like his cat-like self...It's just when he runs and hides that we freak out now. Like a cat he can be incredibly sweet and affectionate when he wants to be. 

I may now that I found that new vet in our vets office just make an appointment to have him checked out and discuss it with her. She seems really receptive to discussion. 

Any other thoughts?


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Missy, I just read your first post on this thread - how interesting!!!! The thing that struck me, was what kind of "job" does Jas have? I'm not sure how you find something for him to do that makes him feel important, but that seemed really important and when he's under-utilized the major reason he becomes depressed. He's the organized and neat one - can he be taught to put away items (toys, etc.)? Sounds crazy, but it's the first thing that came to mind...


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Jill that is a great idea. I may need some one to help me train him that though since he is not into toys--LOL. "Ok Jasper, pick up Cash's toys"


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Well, there's also "Elavil" which is deemed safe for dogs and that is DIRT cheap, like one of the cheapest AD's out there at less than $10 a month.  I hate the idea too, but as a last resort? Maybe worth weighing the pros and cons and looking into it further.

Jill, I think Missy has already gone that route with the 'job' last year. But Missy, you could always try it again.

Kara


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Well you know Jill and Kara, I think If I could figure out how to teach him to put away his (Cash's) toys he would love to do it. It is such in his nature. But he has no inerest in toys to pick them up-- So I actually wasn't being snide in anyway Jill-- I just don't know how to begin to teach. There are two things that get him excited. the phrase "do you want to go for a WALK?" and "JUMP" he loves to jump over my arm.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Missy said:


> Well you know Jill and Kara, I think If I could figure out how to teach him to put away his (Cash's) toys he would love to do it. It is such in his nature. But he has no inerest in toys to pick them up-- So I actually wasn't being snide in anyway Jill-- I just don't know how to begin to teach. There are two things that get him excited. the phrase "do you want to go for a WALK?" and "JUMP" he loves to jump over my arm.


Missy after hearing this I think you should scope out a place to do agility! Honestly, it has helped Posh's mood and confidence and trust more than anything. She is playful girl when small dogs are around...however, she is also my hider. She hides under my kitchen bench as I'm dishing out her food, under my bed when I'm doing anything up there, under my couch when she just wants a break, etc...She does love to cuddle with her mama, but on her terms. She absolutely has come out of her shell at agility. She was totally nervous at first and would hide in tunnels, look at me like get me out of here, etc...when we first started the training.

Meanwhile...

Now she is a little agility beast! I know there are a ton of dogs that start agility later in life, and that my facility sees and recommends agility training to a ton of rescued dogs because of the trusting fun environment...and I'm sure his cat aura would perhaps appreciate the "balance beam" aka dog walk!


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Missy not only did I get my camera today I came home to a jump in my back yard... 1 down 2 to go, it will be interesting to see how Jasper responds to the jumps at our playdate. Brad said it only cost him $10.00 to make. If Jasper likes the jumps Brad said he would be more than happy to make you a couple for your yard.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Ohhh that is so sweet of Brad!!! I can't wait to see Jasper jump at the play date-- I hope he isn't too overwhelmed by 8 havanese!! He had a good day 
Alpha (DH-- we couldn't do Mom and Dad although I sometimes forget-- I am Alphaette) came home early and we all went for a park walk.


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Leeann,

We need pics with the new camera of the jumps!!!


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*I'm a little psychic too*

I think your dog wants to go on long walks and do agility. He isn't depressed, he is more intense. He wants you to be more alpha so he doesn't have to worry so much!

Linda


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Linda, I am pretty sure you don't have to be a psychic to figure that one out...LOL.(that is what my DH thought of the communicator too) But Jasper and Cash get almost a 2 mile walk every morning-- and 2-3 smaller walks through out the day. DH and I really can't walk more than that. And they have access to a big fenced yard anytime they want. I know I am sounding like a negative Nelly, knocking down all the suggestions (which I love getting). But we really have tried a lot of things and we are pretty consistent with him. I Do think he would love doing agility...and we may try setting up some stuff in our back yard. But not sure we have time for formal agility. I would hate to bring something into his life that we couldn't keep up.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Missy- does he do okay in the car? Maybe just getting him out of the house more- like when you run errands etc?

I think some dogs are just more sensitive. Dora still isn't sure of Dasher. She always takes a long tome to get used to new situations. For insance, we moved across country and she was fine and loving the trip then we get to the house and she was totally freaked out. I think it is just like people- we all have difference personalities. Dora is sensitive if you correct her- for instance barking at the front gate. She wouldn't come near me for about an hour. DH corrected her the other day for not leaving the neighbor's dog alone and she ran to me like he was beating her. She just gets so sensitive.

There is a show you might want to check out on National Geographic- Dogs with Jobs. I just watched one about a rescued BC that was injured and really not confided and the lady said no pride so she got him a few geese to herd. While I am not saying rush out and buy geese <BG>, maybe it will give you an idea.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Well I for one would love to see some video of Jasper chasing geese around Missy's back yard ound:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Me too. Maybe I should get some Guinea Hens. They would take care of the ticks too. Amanda, he is very sensitive-- That is a good call. When we were correcting him with the "cesar" method about the mail he went into a huge funk. When we tried the gentle leader for walks-- he started hiding at walk time-- his one big Joy. So in a way, we have let him win these battles. Hmmmm? food for thought. Now about those Guinea Hens...


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Missy said:


> Prozac -- Hmmm? Kara, you have been with this with me from the beginning--so I understand totally where this suggestion comes from--- Oh I just hate the idea of it so. From my own experience, once you are on you can never get off--


My Pom had a personality change and her vet put her on prozac. We had to go to the drug store and get the prescription and it was in the name of Sandy K9 Smith  
The vet told us that she may always need to be on it or it might be only needed short term. We kept her on it for a while and then weaned her off of it. She was fine off the medication and it worked wonders for her.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Hi Missy, sorry I am late to this thread. I don't have any helpful suggestions, but just wanted to offer a :hug: to you and Jasper. It is hard to see our furry boys not being as happy as we know they can be! I'm hoping he'll just come out of his funk soon. 

Maybe dogs get Seasonal Affective Disorder too from lack of sunlight during the long winters?


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Well of all the wonderful suggestion-- the one we could implement right away was Amanda's suggestion of just taking the boys with us more when we run errands and go places. Jasper loves the car-- But gets nervous if we go further than the park because usually that means the vet or the groomers or the dog sitter. So this week we have been taking him (and Cash) to the dump, to my mothers. I took him to the gallery when Michael was hanging his show. And it seems to have pulled him out of this funk. He still isn't running out in the back yard like he used to-- but he is not sulking. I don't know where the fear of the yard has come from--I really hope the new pet sitter isn't terrorizing Jasper (I wish I had a puppy cam to see what happens when I am not around) But I did take away the big bully stick that he was afraid of-- and gave them two smaller ones,which once Cash realized that he couldn't chew both at once Jasper got a chance to chew and seemed to be enjoying it. We interview a new person on Wednesday-- she is also a trainer-- so I hope to work on some obedience too. 

So thanks Amanda-- It did seem to help.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Good news Missy. It will help for Jasper to realize that every car trip past the park doesn't mean the groomers or vets.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

I came upon this thread late......Missy, I do hope things get better with all your efforts. :hug:: Wish you and Jasper all the best!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Missy- while I am glad it helped a little, I was secretly hoping for pics with Jasper and his new hens!!!

Today was Dora's day. I took her out (by herself!) I really try once in awhile to do just some one on one time with each of the dogs. I was getting my purse and Dora was jumping up and down at me. She just screamed take me! I forgot a leash (since I havent been letting her walk on the street since the foxtail incident) so I had to carry her while doing errands. Not my favorite thing but it was too warm to leave her in the car. It just seems to help her mood and she is very sensitive. It was in fact after this, that Dora came home and decided to finally interact with Dasher- scared him by suddenly decided to chase him but she was trying to play! Just imagine poor Dasher, the dog who has ignored you for a week comes barreling down the hall right at you.... I would run to mommy too!

What happens if you guys go in the backyard, does he follow?


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Hi Missy, I’m just getting caught up with threads from the last several weeks. 

There is definitely something wrong with Jasper if this behavior is not normal for him. If it is in his house and yard with you there I would have the vet double check everything. I would almost bet it is something physical with him.

If nothing physical can be found, and he seems more fearful than lethargic I would look to someone or thing abusing him. He could have been stung by a bee, small snake bite or any number of things in the yard. If he normally warms to people quickly, I would get rid of the new dog sitter.

Most dogs will make their own jobs. Ex: Smarty was having a fit this morning at the windows in my office, I thought she was barking and jumping at the wind in the trees until I saw a “fly!!!” Once I killed it she was fine.

Some dogs are just not as happy and out going as others. I do not think drugs are the answer. Our rescue Jack Russell can be over the top and then down in the dumps. Because of her death wish, as we call it, of always going to the road and trying to leave the property, I have always thought she was looking for someone from her past.

My most favorite Boxer was too dignified to jump, twist or act like most of his house & kennel mates. His son was identical in markings, was also a champion and actually was a better example of the breed. When people came to compare the two for breeding to their females, the father walked in like Rhett Butler and the son like Jerry Lewis. Guess who everyone bred to? 
Both were healthy, just different personalities.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

*new pet sitter and a scary collar...*

So we fired the old pet sitter. And Jasper is once again enjoying the yard and chasing squirrels. The new pet sitter is also a dog trainer which I love the idea of. She charges one rate if she just walks them and another rate if she works with them and us. But even when she is just walking them she can't help but train. She took a two weeks to just get to know the boys and walk them. But we had a training session last Saturday. She suggested a prong collar for Jasper to teach him to heel (all the other trainers just wanted loose lead.) She thought by giving him something to concentrate on it would keep his mind from trying to protect us from the cars. I was very skeptical of using the prong collar--it looks very scary, but Jasper seems to respond very well to it and in a day learned the concept of heel and to sit at my side when we stop. There is a lot of treating involved but I am walking further and further in between treats and you know what? Jasper really seems to like being by my side his head is high and his tail is proud. And the past two walks he just watched the cars go by from my side.

I did have a scary moment with the collar though- right as I was leaving the house my neighbor called hello and both boys lunged towards him and Jasper of course choked himself and cried out a bit...which freaked me out...but he was ok (I continue to check) and the rest of the time he stayed by my side.

anyway... we looked at this collar as a last resort to his fear aggression on walks... and it seems to be working. I am eager to see how she suggests we deal with mailman red zone behavior.

Bottom line my moody boy seems brighter and that I love to see.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Oh Missy that is such wonderful news. I know those collars seem scary but I've had trainers show me how they can actually be more kind for certain types of dogs. You won't have to use it forever and it sounds like he's learning quickly and having fun in the process. I'm sending you and Jasper and Cash cyber hugs. :hug:


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Missy I am glad things are looking up for you. I guess Oreo has similar issues that is more boredom and insecurity. The more and more I take him to the dog park he has learned to relax more. 
Keep at it, and I am sure he will get it. Once he finds his mind is challenged with other things, he will be happier. 

Hugs


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

It sounds like he's found his job. Maybe it was just "learning" how to heal, and maybe you might want to consider rally vs. agility? My mom really loved doing rally until I talked her into doing agility with me...

I'm a pain in the butt daughter I am.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Missy- don't use that collar for herding though  Glad to hear you guys have something to focus on and I agree with Amy  Rally is really something you can train at home easily too! That is how Dora and I got started. My puppy training instructor told me I should throw her into a Rally trial that was at our club and the rest is history 

Amy- your mom got a sheltie, they were born to do this stuff and do it very well!

Amanda


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