# Now that he's ok...something to watch for



## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Now that my dog is home and safe, I'm going to post about this. Lightning has been in the doggie hospital with HGE and just came home today. I keep hearing of so many dogs getting this and the warning signs of it can vary from dog to dog. With Lightning, he vomited on my bed once then finished throwing up on the cedar chest at the end of the bed and that was his only symptom at that time. A lot of dogs will eat grass and throw up, but Lightning isn't one of them so I kept a close eye on him. That was around 1 in the afternoon on the day he got this and around 1 am he had a bowel movement filled with blood. Other dogs I've heard about have started off with small or large amounts of blood from the rectum, and some have had mostly vomiting. I'm told that the faster the care the better the chance your dog has of making it. Judging from what others have said that may or may not be right. It seems if your dog gets this that they either get it bad or mild, but without treatment it can go bad. 
When Lightning came home today he spent about 15 minutes 'talking' to anyone who would listen and telling us all about what he's been through. It was funny as heck to listen to him and oh it felt good to laugh. The other dogs all paid attention to every arooooo he had to say so I wonder if they understood him? I've never seen something like that before and it was cute.
Thank goodness we're one of the lucky ones and can have a good 4th.......a tired one, but a very blessed one.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

Oh no! I am so sorry! A friend of mine just had one of her dogs go thru the same thing. So scary!
I am so happy he his home safe and healthy. Thanks for telling us what to look for. Do you have any idea how they get HGE?


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

Jan, what does HGE stand for? I'm in the dark.... Thank goodness he is okay! He reminds me so much of my boy, Cooper who is Ellie's brother. They have beautiful faces.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I'm so glad he is better. Is this the "dog flu" I've been reading about? My DD's dog got sick last year and they could not give her a definite diagnosis, just a lot of might be this or that. Very similar symptoms.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Jan,
Thank goodness you caught it early and Lightening is ok.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Jan, I'm so glad Lightening is okay. It's a very scary disease.

Here's a really good explanation.
*Hemorrhagic GastroEnteritis (HGE) in Dogs*

By Janet Tobiassen Crosby, DVM, About.com

*What does HGE stand for?*
HGE (at least in terms of veterinary medicine) stands for Hemorrhagic GastroEnteritis, and it is a disease of dogs.
*What are the signs seen with HGE in dogs?*
The most notable sign seen with HGE is a very sudden onset of bloody diarrhea in a previously healthy dog. Vomiting, not eating (anorexia), and listlessness are also seen. Dehydration is not usually clinically seen on initial presentation, but shock can develop quickly without treatment. 
*What causes HGE?*
At this time, the exact cause of this disease is unknown. There are many theories - diet, a bacterial infection or bacterial toxin, virus, reaction to an intestinal parasite, etc. - but nothing has been proven. Stress may play a role in the development of HGE. Dogs that have an episode of HGE may be prone to another occurrence. Many dogs never experience HGE. 
*What breeds/ages/gender of dog are more susceptible?*
Toy and miniature breeds of dogs, ages 2 to 4, are the types of dogs most commonly seen, but HGE can affect any breed, gender, and age. There is no gender predilection (HGE occurs equally in males and females). 
*How is HGE diagnosed?*
HGE is diagnosed primarily by ruling out other causes of bloody diarrhea. The sudden appearance of bloody diarrhea and a high packed cell volume (PCV) in a previously healthy dog rule in favor of the HGE diagnosis. Other causes of gastrointestinal bleeding that must be considered as possibilities and subsequently ruled out include:


Gastrointestinal ulcers
Colitis
Parvovirus
Coronavirus
_Campylobacter_ sp (bacteria)
_Salmonella_ sp (bacteria)
_Clostridium_ sp (bacteria)
_Escherichia coli_ (bacteria)
Leptospirosis
Whipworms
Hookworms
Coccidiosis
Giardiasis
Warfarin (rat poison) toxicity
Thromobocytopenia (low platelets)
Gastrointestinal cancer
Hypoadrenocorticism
 *This sounds serious - is it a fatal disease?*
Left untreated, this can be a deadly disease. However, with prompt veterinary care, most dogs respond to treatment and recover. 
*How is HGE treated?*
The mainstay of treatment is aggressive supportive care -- no food or water by mouth for 1-4 days, and intravenous (IV) fluid therapy with Potassium added to the fluids. Antibiotics are also recommended (IV, subcutaneous). Food should be reintroduced slowly and, in the event that the HGE is food related, a new (novel) protein should be given that the dog doesn't usually eat, i.e. chicken, lamb or cottage cheese. 
*What is the success rate? Do dogs recover from this?*
With aggressive supportive care, most dogs recover within a few days. Some dogs can have repeated episodes of HGE. 
*What should I do if I see vomiting or diarrhea in my pet? Is it an emergency?*
This is a hard question to answer, because there are _so many_ causes for vomiting and / or diarrhea. As for any situation that is "not normal" for your pet, it is *always recommended that you call your veterinarian and discuss what is going on*. Your veterinarian will be able to advise you if it is a situation that can wait or if it sounds like an emergency. 
Source: The Merck Veterinary Manual 8th edition, pg 302 
Text: Copyright © Janet Tobiassen Crosby. All rights reserved.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

MopTop Havanese said:


> Oh no! I am so sorry! A friend of mine just had one of her dogs go thru the same thing. So scary!
> I am so happy he his home safe and healthy. Thanks for telling us what to look for. Do you have any idea how they get HGE?


Nobody really knows how they get HGE. This vet is blaming the new bag of Halo dog food. The dogs loved the food until I got this new bag and then they ignored the food after eating it once......then Lightning got sick. My standard poodle threw up from the bottom of her stomach after Lightning got sick and then I thought I was going to have 2 in the doggie hospital but she bounced back with nothing further. The last few days have sure been heck here. I hope nobody else ever has to go through this but it seems to be growing with more dogs getting it instead of going away.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Jennifer Clevenger said:


> Jan, what does HGE stand for? I'm in the dark.... Thank goodness he is okay! He reminds me so much of my boy, Cooper who is Ellie's brother. They have beautiful faces.


It's a family affair on here  Hi Jennifer. How is Cooper doing? Ellie is still the clown of the house and always keeps us laughing.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Kathy said:


> Jan,
> Thank goodness you caught it early and Lightening is ok.


Thanks Kathy.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

irnfit said:


> I'm so glad he is better. Is this the "dog flu" I've been reading about? My DD's dog got sick last year and they could not give her a definite diagnosis, just a lot of might be this or that. Very similar symptoms.


It might be Michele. How was the dog treated?


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

oh Jan!! I am so glad Lightening is OK!!! thanks for the warning and thanks for the article Lisa.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Missy said:


> oh Jan!! I am so glad Lightening is OK!!! thanks for the warning and thanks for the article Lisa.


Thanks Missy.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

My DD's dog was given prednisone and antibiotics. However, my healthy, but old (17 yrs) dog got sick while I was on vacation. My DD said she wouldn't eat, vomited and then started bleeding. This was while I was on my way home from vacation. I went straight to the vet to see her and he said he thought he knew what it was but had to stabilize her before he could run more tests. She died the next morning. I didn't want to do anything else because of her age. But it sounds so like what you are describing. Thank goodness Lightning is well!


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

irnfit said:


> My DD's dog was given prednisone and antibiotics. However, my healthy, but old (17 yrs) dog got sick while I was on vacation. My DD said she wouldn't eat, vomited and then started bleeding. This was while I was on my way home from vacation. I went straight to the vet to see her and he said he thought he knew what it was but had to stabilize her before he could run more tests. She died the next morning. I didn't want to do anything else because of her age. But it sounds so like what you are describing. Thank goodness Lightning is well!


(((((((((((Michele)))))))))))) I'm so sorry you lost your dog like that. 
Was the bleeding from the rectum? If so it does sound like HGE but there is no definite test for it. I wonder if they're working on one? I know of havs that have gotten this from coast to coast but there are still some people who have never heard of it.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> I know of havs that have gotten this from coast to coast but there are still some people who have never heard of it.


I'm glad you mentioned it here then. As pet owners it serves us well to know about diseases our dogs can get and to aware of any symptoms, so we are proactive in their care.

Jan is the vet thinking it was because the food came from Petco, or does he feel bacteria could've been in the bag from the manufacturer? This is a food I considered trying because of Rufus's terrible itching, but I'm not so sure now would be a safe time to try it.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Jan, the bleeding was from the rectum. When I went to see her that night, they brought her into a room to be with me. Her breathing was so labored because of the blood loss that I only stayed with her a little while. I was making her too stressed by being there. I was very lucky - I had her a long time. 17 years and she was always healthy. Her ashes and collar are next to my bed, and she died about 6 yrs ago.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

good buddy said:


> I'm glad you mentioned it here then. As pet owners it serves us well to know about diseases our dogs can get and to aware of any symptoms, so we are proactive in their care.
> 
> Jan is the vet thinking it was because the food came from Petco, or does he feel bacteria could've been in the bag from the manufacturer? This is a food I considered trying because of Rufus's terrible itching, but I'm not so sure now would be a safe time to try it.


She didn't say but did say to take the bag back to Petco. If we didn't see the FDA recall of foods from Petco then I'd think it was on Halo's end but now I don't know. I'm going to call Halo Monday and talk to them though. I'm not taking the bag back until I talk to them. Maybe they'll care enough to want to test their own food.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Good luck and best wishes Jan
Please keep us informed


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

mintchip said:


> Good luck and best wishes Jan
> Please keep us informed


Thanks Sally. I just sent an email to Halo dog food and I'll let you know if they answer me, but I'm also going to call them Monday


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## AKathy (Mar 15, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up. I'm so glad Lightening is doing better.


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Jan,

I have never heard of that. I sure wish Lightning a speedy recovery. I know this must have been very scary for you - I hope you get some rest now.
hugs and kisses


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

Cooper is doing great. I am debating on taking him to the Nationals. Here is his best of breed and championship pic. Please excuse the almost bald woman, I finally have my hair back.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Sissygirl said:


> Jan,
> 
> I have never heard of that. I sure wish Lightning a speedy recovery. I know this must have been very scary for you - I hope you get some rest now.
> hugs and kisses


Thanks everyone for the good wishes.
We laid on the bed last night and played the game Deal or No Deal. Bandit and Lightning helped pick the numbers and are pretty good at it! Ellie watched from the pillow yawning to let us know she thought the game was b o r i n g and the spoo kept one eye on it. 
Then it was lights out somewhere around 10:30 and I can count on one hand the times I've gone to sleep that early in years but all just seemed right with the world with each dog curled up to us in their usual place.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Jennifer Clevenger said:


> Cooper is doing great. I am debating on taking him to the Nationals. Here is his best of breed and championship pic. Please excuse the almost bald woman, I finally have my hair back.


He's so pretty Jennifer. I vote you do go to the National  I think your hair looks great and brings out your pretty features.
My gf is having her head shaved later this month as they're doing surgery on her for Parkinson's. Half of her worry is her hair but I told her I know a great wig shop and we love shopping but like you she has great facial features and I think she'll look beautiful with really short hair. She and I always get our haircuts together so I have a feeling I'm going to wind up with really short hair......what the heck, it grows back and will make her feel better.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Aww - you are a good friend Jan. Good luck to your GF on her upcoming surgery.


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

Sending good thoughts and prayers to your GF! Tell her it's like my husband always told me, "it's just hair!" It scared me how much he like me with no hair! LOL


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Jennifer Clevenger said:


> Sending good thoughts and prayers to your GF! Tell her it's like my husband always told me, "it's just hair!" It scared me how much he like me with no hair! LOL


LOL now that's a good husband!!
Thank you guys for the good wishes for her. They're doing this brain surgery with her awake. That takes a lot of guts to go through but I think she's to the point where she's looking forward to the benefits of it.
I told her we're going to get her different color wigs so she can be many women for her husband and he's all for that LOL She can't wear one for 6 weeks after surgery but her hair grows so quickly that she may decide to go natural. She's such a beautiful woman that she could look good like that.


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## JeanMarie (Mar 2, 2008)

So glad Lightning is on the mend.

And good thoughts for your friend's up coming surgery, Jan!


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## Tooetpulik (May 15, 2008)

I have had 2 dogs with this both times I think they found stagnant water in an overturned something-or-other (one was definately an overturned frisbee on the deck) which they drank. Aretha needed 2 days at the vet on IV's and antibiodics. That was in the spring of 2005 and she came home and finished her championship the following weekend. Because I caught it early and let the vet keep her hydrated and on anti vomiting meds and antibiodics she bounced back fast. Sophie the CKCS developed it last year and was also in the vet 2 days on IV. She also recovered quickly and was home to a normal routine within a couple of days. But this is something that needs vet interaction ASAP.


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## Tooetpulik (May 15, 2008)

I am interested in what the surgery for Parkinson's will be. I havent heard of surgical treatment for it before. Thats wonderful that something can be done to help the symptoms in addition to the medication.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Tooetpulik said:


> I am interested in what the surgery for Parkinson's will be. I havent heard of surgical treatment for it before. Thats wonderful that something can be done to help the symptoms in addition to the medication.


Shoot Abbe, she sent me a link showing the surgery and I didn't keep it....wish I did now that you're asking about it. They've had the surgery for at least a few years. When they first started they did each side of the brain separately but now they do both. It used to mean 2 10 hour surgeries, now it's one that's less than 4 hours and that includes putting the battery pack in her chest.
The medications seem to create too many side effects and holy cow if they get the dosage wrong it's not good. 
I'm going to add more of her story if anyone is interested. Last year she went to a specialist and had to be off of all of her medications (I think at the time she took 21 pills a day) before they would run tests on her because she was looking at this surgery then because I was sort of pushing her about it since her quality of life wasn't great.
Anyhow, when all the meds were out of her system, she lost every sign of Parkinson's!! The doctor was stunned and sent her to another specialist up in Houston. He ran tests on her and she was still symptom free. The doctor told her he had good and bad news for her. The good news was she didn't have Parkinson's but instead she must have had a small stroke several years ago that they mistook for Parkinson's and that it was the drugs causing her Parkinson's symptoms. Then they weaned her off of the medications. 
She stayed symptom free....totally symptom free, and we thought she was home free. She stayed that way several months then flew to her Mom's house and when they were in a store (in a mall during that mall shooting last December in Omaha...she was way too close to that) then she had vision problems and after that her Parkinson's came back. 
I just don't get it.....how can it go away and come back? That's such a heartbreaker.


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## Tooetpulik (May 15, 2008)

Jan I did a research paper on Parkinsons in grad school a gazillion years ago. The symptoms are due to the lack of a chemical produced in a section of the brain (microscopic area) called the substancia *****. Replacement of that chemical artificially (L-Doppa) was the only treatment available for a long time. I wish your friend well and hope the surgery is successful.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Jan, I am slowly catching up with posts here. I am glad to hear that Lightening is doing better now. I just recently heard about this condition when another Hav suffered from HGE and thankfully recovered. 

I wish your friend a safe surgery, speedy and healthy recovery!


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Jan,
I'm so glad to hear that everyone is healthy and curled up in bed together. That sounds so scary. I had never heard of this illness before. Thanks for informing us. Hugs to you and Lightning.
Carole


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Tooetpulik said:


> Jan I did a research paper on Parkinsons in grad school a gazillion years ago. The symptoms are due to the lack of a chemical produced in a section of the brain (microscopic area) called the substancia *****. Replacement of that chemical artificially (L-Doppa) was the only treatment available for a long time. I wish your friend well and hope the surgery is successful.


Thanks for helping me understand Abbe. It sounds like they're making strides with it but hopefully they'll find a way to cure this.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Poornima said:


> Jan, I am slowly catching up with posts here. I am glad to hear that Lightening is doing better now. I just recently heard about this condition when another Hav suffered from HGE and thankfully recovered.
> 
> I wish your friend a safe surgery, speedy and healthy recovery!


Didn't you just have a big move? How is it going? Thanks so much for the good wishes.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

mellowbo said:


> Jan,
> I'm so glad to hear that everyone is healthy and curled up in bed together. That sounds so scary. I had never heard of this illness before. Thanks for informing us. Hugs to you and Lightning.
> Carole


I'm on a mission Carole. I was the one who went on hav lists and said what a great dog food this is and I feel terrible that I did that. So many have written to tell me they bought the food but hadn't run out of the old food so their bags haven't been opened. <whew> I'm so glad I haven't heard of another dog that got sick from this or I'd really feel like mud.
We were at the vet's office getting Bandit's xray to count puppies and got to spend a long time talking to the vet. He looked at the notes of the female vet that took care of Lightning and said there was no doubt it came from the food, then he got technical and explained why and it went over my head. They faxed Halo their information so now it's up to Halo. 
I am LIVID with the FDA that they won't even take a report about this and I'm going to fight that too. If that's how they deal with things, then how many dogs have gotten sick or worse because they won't take a report? grrrrrrrrr
On the upside, we got to see the puppies in Bandit. Awwwww that's really something to see. First the sonogram, now the xray pictures. If you want to guess how many, go here http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?p=152821#post152821


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## KristinFusco (Jun 5, 2007)

Jan, I am so happy that Lightning is recovering from HGE. I have heard of another Hav almost dying from the condition as well, give Lightning a kiss from us!


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Jan, I am just now seeing this thread. Scary stuff! Thanks for the warning and what to look for. I'm so glad Lightning is one of the lucky ones and he is back home now. The visual I got of all of you cuddling on the bed and falling asleep pout a big smile on my face.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

JanB said:


> Jan, I am just now seeing this thread. Scary stuff! Thanks for the warning and what to look for. I'm so glad Lightning is one of the lucky ones and he is back home now. The visual I got of all of you cuddling on the bed and falling asleep pout a big smile on my face.


Thanks Jan.....it just made everything with the world seem right again. My husband used our camera today (he never touches it!) and took these pictures of our baby. Lightning is a mess....he has conditioner on his coat and hasn't been brushed in 5 days because I figure he's had enough stress. It's a good thing he doesn't mat or I'd be up a creek! Here's my baby boy healthy again.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

KristinFusco said:


> Jan, I am so happy that Lightning is recovering from HGE. I have heard of another Hav almost dying from the condition as well, give Lightning a kiss from us!


Thanks Kristin, I'll be happy to give him a kiss from you. I've gotten so many emails about people that have gone through HGE with their hav.....I had no clue it was so common!!


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## Tooetpulik (May 15, 2008)

Jan did you say your vet thought it was caused by the food? Please share the name of the food. This condition must be fairly common because both times it happened to one of my dogs my vets knew exactly what it was and how to treat it. 

Tinta (my male puli) vomited up his entire dinner undigested before I left for work. This change in schedule and feeding them early afternoon instead of evening has everyone's systems messed up. Now his stomach is growling )of course it is he hasnt had any food in there for nearly 12 hours) and I cant seem to entice him with anything, He acting normally (trying to make Sparky the male hav his subordinate) but something really upset his stomach.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Tooetpulik said:


> Jan did you say your vet thought it was caused by the food? Please share the name of the food. This condition must be fairly common because both times it happened to one of my dogs my vets knew exactly what it was and how to treat it.
> 
> Tinta (my male puli) vomited up his entire dinner undigested before I left for work. This change in schedule and feeding them early afternoon instead of evening has everyone's systems messed up. Now his stomach is growling )of course it is he hasnt had any food in there for nearly 12 hours) and I cant seem to entice him with anything, He acting normally (trying to make Sparky the male hav his subordinate) but something really upset his stomach.


The lady vet that treated him said it was the food then the vet who owns the office went over his records with her and us and agreed with her that it was the new bag of food. The food is Halo. He told me the name of the bacteria they found and said it was a normal bacteria to find in the body but not the way it was.....that's where it got more technical and over my head. I hope your puli is feeling better.


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