# a Hav trait?



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Do any other dogs do this ....

Tillie will take 2-3 peices of kibble, run to her bed (about 15 ft away from her food/water) and eat it there... then run back and get a few more... she NEVER eats AT her bowl and she is a very "light" eater, only a few peices at a time. I find it impossible to feed her at specific times because she eats like a bird! So, I give her about 1/3 of a scoop in the morning and it lasts till late afternoon when she gets another 1/3 of a scoop and her beloved greek yogurt... is this an okay way for her to eat?? "free feeding" ??

thanks!!


----------



## Grimnel (Sep 12, 2010)

I noticed Pixie starting to do that this week whereas the boys just shovel it all in. Pixie delicately takes a piece and trots off into the next room. Our Lhasa's did the same and i found that letting them eat separately from each other helped, i started to put pixie's bowl just at the door between rooms far enough away so the boys don't get it straight away as soon as she moves, she stays nearer her bowl when i do that. Not sure why. She is also a light eater as she is tiny, i try not to free feed but i don't think it harms too much unless get given too much throughout the day, but if you're measuring it out for the whole day it should be ok. Greek Yoghurt eewwww? lol


----------



## Buzzys Mom (Sep 28, 2010)

Buzzy goes back and forth. I make sure his bowl is always full because of this. He is a healthy weight and isn't very food motivated, but it's kind of funny because every once in a while I find a piece of kibble in between the couch cushions or in my bed!


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Here's why free feeding is not such a good idea. Especially for pups. http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/was-no-dog-was-jabba-hutt


----------



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

LOL, greek yogurt is yummmmy! we give Tillie the HONEY Greek yogurt! 
She too is very tiny, her breeder thinks she may be around 10 lbs when she is full grown.
So it sounds like it isn't something typical to Hav's but maybe a personality thing?
Funny thing is, she LOVES treats and goes CRAZY for them, but isn't crazy for her same ol same ol kibble! LOL


----------



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

thanks for the link Dave!


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Actually when dogs take food off somewhere to eat it, that is a form of resource guarding. Very typical but something you have to work on. I'll be back is a sec with some R.G. info. http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/guarding-valued-objects


----------



## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

Sophie has very little interest in food or treats. I asked the vet about it and she said not to worry because her weight is perfect. The only treat she loves is pill pockets, which I give a tiny pinch of for training. She's on an antibiotic for intestinal bacteria, and if I wrapped her food in pill pockets, she would gobble it down! I even mix her kibble with baby food turkey or chicken and she still eats very little. But she's only been weaned for 3 weeks, so I'm hoping she will eventually eat.


----------



## andra (Aug 23, 2010)

My female havanese, Dionna, does this too. As she has gotten older (she is now 11 months old and weighs 11 pounds), she is doing it less but it still happens. Our inhome trainer, who started with Dionna when she was 9 weeks old, thought it was due to Dionna coming from a bigger litter and/or her thinking food was going to be scarce. She is a bit of a picky eater, too. I have tried to incorporate numerous healthier kibbles in with her current and only now is she starting to be more open to trying.

I feed her at set times and let her finish.....some days she is incredibly slow and some days she does better. She looks a bit small to me, size wise but weight wise I know she is ok. Sometimes she looks very fragile LOL. 

The temperment testing that the inhome trainer did came back that she is a more submissive dog. Her confidence is a lot better due to the training and she is a wonderful dog and I have no complaints. I find her quirks funny, actually. Like, she does not like new things sometimes and will do a low "wuf wuf wuf" as if she is alerting us to the 'new thing'.

andra


----------



## Buzzys Mom (Sep 28, 2010)

Wow- I had no idea. Thanks for the links! Buzzy is 7.5 and will still do anything for a treat (and is no where near overweight, and is fed high-quality food). Maybe MY baby is SPECIAL and this article doesn't pertain to him ound:
At my parents and sisters houses, the dogs all share a bowl and that has never been an issue either. Things might have to change with a new dog coming in this weekend though. :jaw:


----------



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

ya, there WERE several dogs at Tillie's breeders and she was the smallest, I bet this was the only way she was able to eat! All the other dogs were bigger, faster and more aggressive... she could never keep up with them!
I read the article and I will try dropping treats in her bowl and what not to get her used to that. Also, I have noticed she is getting possesive of her one special "lovey" and will sometimes growl if the kids come near when she is loving on it ... any ideas how to stop this before it becomes a problem?


----------



## CarolZ (Aug 12, 2010)

If we're eating Julie will sometimes bring a few pieces of kibble in and "join in".
When I read about puppies eating like birds I'm amazed as Julie is a real chow hound.
Her main food is Wellness puppy kibble , but she loves a little wet too (or a lot if would give it to her). Have been stuffing her kongs and freezing them ..to get her to work a little for her wet food + have been given her a little greek yogurt. Now that she has such strict exercise limits I worry that she will put on weight.. so may need to cut back.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

TilliesMom said:


> ya, there WERE several dogs at Tillie's breeders and she was the smallest, I bet this was the only way she was able to eat! All the other dogs were bigger, faster and more aggressive... she could never keep up with them!
> I read the article and I will try dropping treats in her bowl and what not to get her used to that. Also, I have noticed she is getting possesive of her one special "lovey" and will sometimes growl if the kids come near when she is loving on it ... any ideas how to stop this before it becomes a problem?


 Same thing, that is resource guarding. Take the growls seriously ,but do not punish them. Here are two more articles http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/why-growl-good 
and http://www.4pawsu.com/Donaldson.pdf


----------



## LoudRam (May 23, 2010)

Ruffles free feeds but I do keep track of what she eats. She only gets 1 cup of food a day as per the dog food bag feeding chart. (C&P Ultramix) and she takes all day to eat it. Most times she doesn't eat it all, just most of it. When we got her she was only 9 lbs. and 9 months old. Within 8 weeks she hit 12 lbs. Here we are 4 months later and she's still at 12 lbs and looks very healthy. 

Maybe free feeding does work for some. I'd say it sounds like a case by case, dog by dog decision. But thanks for the links Dave. They are always informative.


----------



## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

My grandfather trained dogs for the blind. I was always taught dogs should not be free fed. My girl came from a breeder with a kennnel so there was always food out for the babies. She had to learn to eat her dinner and breakfest all at once. She still takes some of the hard treats to her bed for a leisurely chew..thats ok. NO more growling or guarding. Yay!!! My shih tzu guarded bones all this life...the only thing the mill boy could not overcome. He would not bite and you could take it, but....The growling and carrying on The whole time he had it!!!!!!!! Just with bones like greenies and such.


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Sometimes,

She will go about 4-5 feet from her bowl and drop it and eat. I never quite understood this because she's an only child, but maybe it was learned behavior from her litter mates ?? 

It doesn't happen often enough for it to really be a habit, though.

Kara


----------



## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

My Lhasa wouldn't eat unless I was there to watch him eat. If I were out of town and had a dog-sitter, he wouldn't eat. Different thing entirely, I know, but maybe if you sat over the dog, she would eat. I am no expert at all, so you don't have to take my novice advice. I am not familiar with the resource guarding. I have seen dogs growl at food but it was because the owner's sons would tease the dog with his food.

My breeder said to make your reaction to growling the same as if the dog committed murder and not to let a dog ever growl. Immediately crate. But if resource guarding is a different issue, maybe you don't punish for growling until you have worked through the situation.

Just my thoughts, again, I am no expert.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

jenisny said:


> My Lhasa wouldn't eat unless I was there to watch him eat. If I were out of town and had a dog-sitter, he wouldn't eat. Different thing entirely, I know, but maybe if you sat over the dog, she would eat. I am no expert at all, so you don't have to take my novice advice. I am not familiar with the resource guarding. I have seen dogs growl at food but it was because the owner's sons would tease the dog with his food.
> 
> My breeder said to make your reaction to growling the same as if the dog committed murder and not to let a dog ever growl. Immediately crate. But if resource guarding is a different issue, maybe you don't punish for growling until you have worked through the situation.
> 
> Just my thoughts, again, I am no expert.


one should NEVER punish for growling. Read the link I posted earlier.


----------



## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

I think it might have something to do with the crunchiness of the kibble.

I normally feed Eli Orijen with a teaspoon of wet food. Because it's chewy he usually scarfs it down (when he decides to eat). I recently ran out of Orijen (did not re-order in time) and bought another good brand. That kibble is larger, dryer and crunchier. Even though I still add wet food I've noticed that he will move it a few paces away to chew and come back for more. Try giving Tillie a softer kibble and see how that works for you.


----------



## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

I strongly disagree with the link about free feeding. My dogs both free feed, they are not overweight, they work for any treat, and they do NOT eat more than they would otherwise. A dog will only eat as much as their owner gives them! If they are being fed their regular daily amount but free-fed throughout the day rather than at two set times, there is no difference in the amount of food they eat per day. My guys get 1/2 their food in the morning, and the other 1/2 around dinner time, regardless if their bowl is full or empty. By bedtime, the food is almost always gone. Havanese can be very finicky eaters, and in my experience, it's not WHAT you feed them, but WHEN. Just like I'm not hungry at exactly 5:00 every single day, my dogs aren't hungry at exactly 5:00 every single day.

I think you need to know yourself and know your dogs. Ask yourself some questions: Will I give the dog more if I free feed? Does my dog eat on a regular schedule? Does my dog already have issues with working for treats? If your dog already eats on a reliable schedule, then there is no need to free feed.

Also, all of my Havs pick up food and carry it away. But they carry it to wherever their "person" is. They're social eaters, so they don't like to be alone. Just a minute ago, Stella was munching on some food, but I got up from the couch. She followed me into the kitchen and dropped a mouthful of food on the floor beside me. As I filled up my glass, she ate her food, and then when I walked back over to the couch, she resumed eating at the food bowl. So, it really depends on WHY your dog is taking the food somewhere else.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

galaxie said:


> I strongly disagree with the link about free feeding. My dogs both free feed, they are not overweight, they work for any treat, and they do NOT eat more than they would otherwise. A dog will only eat as much as their owner gives them! If they are being fed their regular daily amount but free-fed throughout the day rather than at two set times, there is no difference in the amount of food they eat per day. My guys get 1/2 their food in the morning, and the other 1/2 around dinner time, regardless if their bowl is full or empty. By bedtime, the food is almost always gone. Havanese can be very finicky eaters, and in my experience, it's not WHAT you feed them, but WHEN. Just like I'm not hungry at exactly 5:00 every single day, my dogs aren't hungry at exactly 5:00 every single day.
> 
> I think you need to know yourself and know your dogs. Ask yourself some questions: Will I give the dog more if I free feed? Does my dog eat on a regular schedule? Does my dog already have issues with working for treats? If your dog already eats on a reliable schedule, then there is no need to free feed.
> 
> Also, all of my Havs pick up food and carry it away. But they carry it to wherever their "person" is. They're social eaters, so they don't like to be alone. Just a minute ago, Stella was munching on some food, but I got up from the couch. She followed me into the kitchen and dropped a mouthful of food on the floor beside me. As I filled up my glass, she ate her food, and then when I walked back over to the couch, she resumed eating at the food bowl. So, it really depends on WHY your dog is taking the food somewhere else.


yes everyone is different, you can free feed successfully , but many people don't. For young puppies especially ,you take away your training possibilities. Young pups shouldn't even be fed out of a bowl in my opinion. It makes it difficult to get a regular elimination schedule , one of the biggest issues with housetraining. But like the article says " Most trainers (as in "all of the trainers I've ever discussed feeding with") dislike free feeding". And I have to agree with this statement because of all the trainers I know at IPDTA , none of them recommend it either. But you're right , true free feeding is putting food out on a continual basis and topping it up so that there is always some food there. And that is catastrophic. I disagree with Havanese being finicky eaters. Any dog will be a finicky eater if we let them. Regarding the food guarding. We're talking about dogs that take their food away from the humans to eat it. 
Here's what Sabine (pet nutritionist) says about free feeding. 
"From experience I can tell you that free feeding is NOT a good idea. Several reasons:

1. Free feeding only works with kibble, which is simply the least ideal type of food to feed, due to its highly

processed nature.
2. Very few dogs actually self-regulate well enough to just eat enough to maintain a healthy weight. Sure, such

individuals do exist (I've had one of my own), but they are very rare exceptions. Also, see #1.
3. If you don't feed scheduled meals, it's much harder to realize when an animal is off their feed due to stress,

discomfort, pain, illness.
4. In our times, with many dogs being couch potatoes and not even getting the mental stimulation of regular walks

(let alone more vigorous exercise, like performing in dog sports or doing actual work), meal times are a major

highlight of their day, something they very much look forward to. Why take away one more of the few major

stimulants? 
5. House training. If you control when food goes into your dog, you can reasonably predict when it's going to come

out the other end. Not so with free feeding"


----------



## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

I dont like free-feeding. I think it may help with the 'pickyness' of Havs-
Almost like they will 'wait' for something better to come along. If you feed them morning/night then they are 'hungry' and will eat.
I also wonder if she isn't eating much kibble because she is filling up on treats.
I am not a huge treat person at all- my dogs get none- If I do give them a treat or bone (like the yogurt for tear stains)- I give it AFTER they have eating their breakfast.
Hope this helps!


----------



## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Hmm... I feed both dogs in their individual crates. I put the dish down and make them wait for the okay to dig in. 10 secs later, the food is gone. I haven't started to try to make Jack pause during eating because he inhales it so fast. Once the food is gone, I remove the dishes.

Should I not put the dishes in the crate but just outside it? I like it in the crate because I can shut Jack in while he is eating and then I can start the kids' lunches. That way, I don't worry about being distracted and missing a 'signal'.

BTW: Thanks, Dave. I really liked the second link you posted.


----------



## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I hate to say anything bad about Rosie, but the eating the kibble all over the place is really irritating me. She just strews it around. My back is too bad to keep picking it up. I am thinking about doing away with the kibble entirely. She basically is not eating it anyway. I mix wet food with it and she manages to lick it off the kibble. But I don't have much of a choice in pet foods here. The wet food I buy is a purina product that doesn't have any grain in it. Really I think that Rosie is just torturing me cause she can--because she will eat the cats kibble right out of the bowl.


----------



## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

So funny! I used to have a maltese and a bichon, and they would not touch dry food. But they would do anything to get the cat's kibble. Now Sophie hardly eats anything and I mix her Fromm puppy kibble with wet turkey. She eats enough, but I won't worry about her getting fat. But she will stay under the table where I feed my cat, searching for a dropped piece of food, which she has occasionally found a crumb of. Maybe they just want what they can't have.


----------



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

No picky eaters here. Imme has to eat in her crate because otherwise she will inhale hers and body slam a couple of others out of the way and inhale theirs. They all get fed in the dog room at the same time. If one wants to be picky, I just say, "you better eat it or I'll let Imme have it", and that's usually the end of it. They learn fast that if they are too slow, that there will be consequences.

Here's a link to a picture of mealtime: http://www.starbornhavanese.com/images/breakfast.jpg


----------



## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Tom, that photo cracks me up!


----------



## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes, they are so cute - eating and minding their own business!!

Abby is definitely not a picky eater. She gets 1/4 cup twice a day. She takes one bite out to the LR where we are and then goes back to her dish and polishes off the rest!

I've heard that cat food has a lot more fat in it which is why dogs love it so much!


----------

