# Topknot/pig tails on a puppy



## Brooklyn (Sep 3, 2013)

Kingsles's hair is amazing and super silky so far. He is 4 month and 3 weeks now and his hair is getting longer. At this point his hair is at the awakward stage where is so long that its covers his eyes, but not long enough for a topknot. I tried pig tails and he doesn't mind them (and he looks hilarious), but I can't get his hair right above his eyes in the pig tails.

Any suggestions how to survive this awkward hair stage? I just want to get his hair out of his eyes for training and practical reasons. I'm planning on growing out his coat as well, so cutting bangs is not an option...

I'd love to see ideas and pictures of puppy topknots.


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## jef (Apr 17, 2016)

Sofie is in this awkward stage as well.
I can brush her hair back and it looks nice . . . but put her down and she shakes it all right back in her eyes >


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Don't know if Nino's hair was treated with MiracleGro, but by 4.5 months, topknots were pretty easy. The trick was to place them further forward, if that makes sense. I'll post a few before and after photos.

First photo is right around 4.5 months old. As you can see, it's tied pretty far forward on his head. We also used a thinner tie as it gripped better than the terry cloth ones we use now do.
Second photo is 5 months. We were able to add more hair to the knot (though it's pretty sloppily done).
Last two are what his topknots look like currently at 8 months.


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

(Hopefully this one adds the younger photos as thumbnails rather than links...one with rosette is 5 months, other one is 4.5)


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

Nino is SOooo cute! Love the photos and the top knots and her little tongue out!


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## Brooklyn (Sep 3, 2013)

That helps, even though it looks likes Nino's hair is much longer than Kingsley's on top of his head. It seems like his hair grows very slowly on top of his head, we never head the issue with our other Havi - I was able to make him a decent topknot at 4 month.


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

The hair on top of the head is usually the slowest to grow out. Another trick we used on him was applying all-natural lip balm/vaseline to hold the hairs back or into the topknot.


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## Cbelknap (Sep 17, 2014)

Molly went through that awkward stage as well. Even today at two years old, she has several short wispy hairs that fall out of her topknot and get into her eyes as the day goes on. Here are a few pictures from her puppy days and how the hair has grown and the topknot has improved. 

Over the years, I found a product called PICTURE PERFECT that does help. It is a sticky paste that quickly dries and holds the hair in place like a hairspray or hair gel. You can easily comb it out and it doesn't leave a residue. One container will last a lifetime, since you only need a small dab. It is available at thepishpadstore.com.


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

The pig tail picture is soooooo cute.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

These guys are tooo precious!


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## PaulineMi (Feb 5, 2016)

How cute!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Nino and Molly are just the cutest! I still struggle with the top knot or ponytails. Truffles hair is very silky and it doesn't stay in place very long. Plus the eyelashes are always hanging over her eyes. 😊


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## Brooklyn (Sep 3, 2013)

I totally agree, they all look so adorable in their topknots, pigtails and with the bows! I use clear mascara to hold Brooklyn's tiny hairs above his eyes in place after his bath. I will definitely check out picture perfect though, I'm sure it will work a bit better. I just checked out puppy pictures of Kingsley's dam, they both look exactly alike - though it looks like her hair was longer than Kingley's at this stage.

I might try making a ponytail closer to the middle of his eyes and see if I can find a small bow to pin it back - he ended up looking like a unicorn my last ponytail attempt.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Don't worry about him looking like a unicorn... It won't be for long, and he'll be able to see for training. And that's the most important part!


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

I am so surprised at how wiry and thick Sophie's whiskers are. I haven't felt her eyelashes are they are stiff as the whiskers? My Hallie's whiskers were much more "supple". 
this conversation is making me a little uncomfortable. LOL.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

The clear mascara is a great idea! I'm going to give it a try!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Dee Dee said:


> I am so surprised at how wiry and thick Sophie's whiskers are. I haven't felt her eyelashes are they are stiff as the whiskers? My Hallie's whiskers were much more "supple".
> this conversation is making me a little uncomfortable. LOL.


I think part of them feeling wiry is cutting them. Pixel's coat is very fine, but her whiskers feel stiff, sticking out of her shorter facial hair. Kodi and Panda's whiskers have never been cut, and you can't feel them at all because they just hang down in the rest of the hair. They are thicker, though... I know, because I have occasionally pulled one out by mistake with the face comb.

None of mine have noticeable "eyelashes" of different texture than their hair. Panda's sable littermates do, however. They take after the sire of that part of the litter... who also has heavy, wiry eyelashes. (or, I think more accurately, eye whiskers, like on a cat or horse)


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

That's interesting! I've not noticed Sophie's eyelashes at all either but I've seen them on other hav's. 
Funny too because Sophie's whiskers have never been cut either. We've trimmed under her beard a little but not near her actual whiskers.


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## Layla's Mom (Feb 1, 2016)

OMG how beautiful all these dogs are! I'm in Havie love 0


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

I took this pic yesterday while on vacation in Maryland. Emmie has some wispy hairs that I usually don't do anything about. She gets a treat after I put her hair up in a top knot every morning.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I had to rotate this picture so we can better see all this cuteness!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Love this thread and all your photos. It is still an epic struggle each time I redo Shama's topknot. She will not hold still, and I feel terrible for torturing her. I try to reason with her ("Don't you know that your moving is making me pull your hair?") but she still just writhes about. The first photo below was taken at the groomers on 2/4/16 when she was six months old. The second was taken one week ago. The third and fourth were taken today (8/19/16). I hate it that I feel like she has less hair on the top of her head at 14 months than she did at six months. Hair always comes out of her head when I am removing her top knot. We cut out the latex-free dog grooming bands, but we don't cut the band attached to her cute bows (shout out to Boomana!)

[ame="https://www.amazon.com/Latex-Grooming-Bands-Fantasy-Farm/dp/B001S6304I"]Amazon.com : Latex Free Dog Grooming Bands by Fantasy Farm - 1/4" (6 mm), Clear, 500 count : Dog Hair Rubber Bands : Pet Supplies[/ame]

We are going to try the Picture Perfect styling aid that Cbelknap recommended for her wispies. We are troubled by Shama's frequent pawing of her face as if the hair in her eyes is bothering her (of course her pawing is the reason her hair is in her eyes!) She paws at her face whenever she's in a situation she doesn't like such as being held when she wants to get down. The other thing is that I'm starting to feel like it may just be too hard to keep her in a long coat. My groomer said that if we can make it to 18 months it will get easier, but I'm not convinced. Her hair is cottony soft and mats in two seconds. If we do go to a puppy cut, we'll keep it on the long side and not cut the hair on the ears and tail. I really would like to keep her in a long coat, however.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Molly120213 said:


> I had to rotate this picture so we can better see all this cuteness!


Thanks so much Molly!!! How did you do that? I'm not very good with computers!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

ShamaMama said:


> Love this thread and all your photos. It is still an epic struggle each time I redo Shama's topknot. She will not hold still, and I feel terrible for torturing her. I try to reason with her ("Don't you know that your moving is making me pull your hair?") but she still just writhes about. The first photo below was taken at the groomers on 2/4/16 when she was six months old. The second was taken one week ago. The third and fourth were taken today (8/19/16). I hate it that I feel like she has less hair on the top of her head at 14 months than she did at six months. Hair always comes out of her head when I am removing her top knot. We cut out the latex-free dog grooming bands, but we don't cut the band attached to her cute bows (shout out to Boomana!)
> 
> Amazon.com : Latex Free Dog Grooming Bands by Fantasy Farm - 1/4" (6 mm), Clear, 500 count : Dog Hair Rubber Bands : Pet Supplies
> 
> We are going to try the Picture Perfect styling aid that Cbelknap recommended for her wispies. We are troubled by Shama's frequent pawing of her face as if the hair in her eyes is bothering her (of course her pawing is the reason her hair is in her eyes!) She paws at her face whenever she's in a situation she doesn't like such as being held when she wants to get down. The other thing is that I'm starting to feel like it may just be too hard to keep her in a long coat. My groomer said that if we can make it to 18 months it will get easier, but I'm not convinced. Her hair is cottony soft and mats in two seconds. If we do go to a puppy cut, we'll keep it on the long side and not cut the hair on the ears and tail. I really would like to keep her in a long coat, however.


Shama is just darling! Even though Truffles is now older she still paws at her face at times. She doesn't like hair in her eyes. If I say "lets fix your hair" she will run and jump on the back of the sofa. That's where I fix her ponytails. &#128522; When my husband is leaving to take Scout and Truffles to the park I always stop them to make sure Truffles can see! I thought about a puppy cut, but the groomer said with her silky coat it is best to leave it long.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

I would love to see video of Truffles having her hair done. Do you remember how old she was when she started to be still for having her hair done? Did you just treat, treat, treat to keep her in place?


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Heather Glen said:


> Thanks so much Molly!!! How did you do that? I'm not very good with computers!


I copied the photo to my Ipad and then just rotated it. My pictures frequently come out sideways when I post from my Ipad so I preview them first and rotate if necessary.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Thanks! Guess I need to learn to rotate.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

One part of the problem is that if you look at the ones done by the groomer, and the ones done by you, you are putting the pony much further back, which allows more hair to fall forward. So moving the pony closer to the front will help.

It would take some time, but I would clicker train her to put her head down in a neck pillow, (like you use on an airplane, although you can get specially made-for-dogs ones... I think Dee Dee has one) and hold it there for cookies. After she is reliably keeping her head down in the pillow, start JUST combing through it in that position, while clicking and treating her. When she is reliably doing that, you can start working on putting her pony in there.

Honestly, I think you have to make a decision whether her hair is more important or the elastic on some bows. I NEVER save a bow over the dog's hair. If it's catching at all, I cut the elastic. (one of the reasons I like the cheap Amazon ones... I don't worry about the cost 1/3 penny a piece!) Kodi did a lot of face pawing when he was younger, and for him, I never used elastics, except for trials. For him, I used Tiny Terrys:

https://smile.amazon.com/Goody-Ouch...71639099&sr=1-1&keywords=tiny+terry+hair+ties

These don't hold hair in as well... sometimes I had to put his hair back up 2-3 times during the day, but the don't break hair AT ALL when the dog tries to scratch them out either. That's the trade-off. eventually, he learned to (mostly) leave his hair alone, and then I just started putting his hair up in elastics during the day, and taking it out at night. Are they as cute as the bows? No. But if they are going to destroy their head hair, how long are you going to have a pony that you can put up anyway?


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Thanks for all your help, Karen. What I don't understand is how I keep her hair in a top knot while I'm clicker training her to keep her head on a pillow and allow me to comb the hair on her head. Should I start over and forgo her top knot until she can stay still and calm while I comb her hair? Fine, I'll cut the rubber bands on the bows (the Amazon price is 30 cents per bow not a third of a cent per bow but, yes, still a bargain). I tried tiny terries but couldn't manipulate them very well as they don't stretch far and found that they came right out of Shama's hair. I agree that if something doesn't change, I won't have head hair to put in a top knot much longer. Does anyone else have any thoughts to share?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Thanks for all your help, Karen. What I don't understand is how I keep her hair in a top knot while I'm clicker training her to keep her head on a pillow and allow me to comb the hair on her head. Should I start over and forgo her top knot until she can stay still and calm while I comb her hair? Fine, I'll cut the rubber bands on the bows (the Amazon price is 30 cents per bow not a third of a cent per bow but, yes, still a bargain). I tried tiny terries but couldn't manipulate them very well as they don't stretch far and found that they came right out of Shama's hair. I agree that if something doesn't change, I won't have head hair to put in a top knot much longer. Does anyone else have any thoughts to share?


Oops! Those pesky decimals!  You're right, but it's still cheaper than a wig when you pull all the hair out!  And I don't find that I need to cut them all... As long as I take them out nightly, I can get many out without any tangles. But IF there is a tangle, the bow takes the hit, not her hair.

You can either forgo the topknot for now completely or you can continue your struggle with that, but do it completely separately, both time and place, from teaching her to keep her head down on the pillow.

I know the terries come back out if the rub at them, but lookout it this way... she won't be pulling out hair, and you get that much more time to practice!  Do you use a grooming table with a grooming arm? If not, that can be an option too. Kodi gets his hair put up in a grooming loop, just because that's the way we started. I CAN do it with him lying down if I have to, but he stays still better in the loop. Do you take her pony out every night? That will help prevent breakage, and it also just FEELS good. They like a good head rub when they get their ponies out.

I think that if it's important to you, you just need to be very persistent but gentle, until she accepts it. OTOH, even if you want her in full coat, some of our members trim bangs even with a long coat. Whimsy is one of the prettiest dogs on the forum, her long coat is always beautiful, but she hates ponies, so Evelyn just keeps her in soft, wispy bangs. She looks adorable!


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Rexy is 11 months and he is pretty good about lying on my lap while I put his topknot up. He will leave it in all day about 80% of the time. I always take the elastic band out at night and comb through his coat especially now that he is blowing coat and will often have a mat in the hair that's caught up in the topknot. As when I taught Leo and Rex to accept combing, nail trimming, teeth brushing etc., it required patience, praise and persistence. It has paid off with Rexy's topknot but Leo got the upper hand and I cut his bangs. Rexy's coat is much silkier than Leo's whose coat is poofier. This picture was taken a month or so ago. I have considered the little terry bands but I am at the office all day and am afraid that when they would come out that Rexy would chew on them. Only you will know for sure how important it is to you to gain acceptance of the ponytail routine.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

ShamaMama said:


> I would love to see video of Truffles having her hair done. Do you remember how old she was when she started to be still for having her hair done? Did you just treat, treat, treat to keep her in place?


I can't seem to find a video of Truffles having her hair done. I wouldn't be able to post it anyway!  The fur kids have a wonderful groomer. She has been our groomer since Scout was six months old. Truffles had her first mini grooming at nine week old. The groomer believes it is best to keep it calm and quiet. She said it just takes time for puppies to learn how to surrender. Scout and Truffles get goodies after grooming. &#128523;


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## boomana (Jul 9, 2015)

I switched to french barrettes on my bows to save the bows and hair. I use either an elastic band, which I always cut when taking it out, or a small terry band for the top knot, then attach a cute barrette/bow. I get most of my bows from etsy sellers and also bowbiz.com. You can ask them to use a barrette instead of a band. It's usually a tad more expensive, but worth it. I haven't lost a bow since I switched. They last months and look as good on Lola as the rubber banded ones.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

boomana said:


> I switched to french barrettes on my bows to save the bows and hair. I use either an elastic band, which I always cut when taking it out, or a small terry band for the top knot, then attach a cute barrette/bow. I get most of my bows from etsy sellers and also bowbiz.com. You can ask them to use a barrette instead of a band. It's usually a tad more expensive, but worth it. I haven't lost a bow since I switched. They last months and look as good on Lola as the rubber banded ones.


Can you explain what a French barrette is? I'm not sure how it differs from other types.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Will the french barrette hold silky hair? I would prefer to just use terries, but the hair slips out in no time without an elastic band.


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## PaulineMi (Feb 5, 2016)

Heather Glen said:


> I can't seem to find a video of Truffles having her hair done. I wouldn't be able to post it anyway!  The fur kids have a wonderful groomer. She has been our groomer since Scout was six months old. Truffles had her first mini grooming at nine week old. The groomer believes it is best to keep it calm and quiet. She said it just takes time for puppies to learn how to surrender. Scout and Truffles get goodies after grooming. &#128523;
> View attachment 124074


Truffles under the dryer looks like Lola chasing leaves in front of the leaf blower. Hmmm, I wonder.....


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## boomana (Jul 9, 2015)

krandall said:


> Can you explain what a French barrette is? I'm not sure how it differs from other types.


It's just a normal metal barrette that you squeeze the ends to release. Most people just call it a barrette, and i didn't know there were different kinds, but some bow makers offer plastic or other metal kinds, and if they do, the french barrette is what they call it.



Heather Glen said:


> Will the french barrette hold silky hair? I would prefer to just use terries, but the hair slips out in no time without an elastic band.


No. Purely decorative.


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## katscleancutdogs (May 18, 2016)

Kati learned on a groomers loop and now she will sit on a table without a loop and let me do it. Took about 8 months. When I first started her topknots it was really hard to keep her hair in it. I tried mascara I tried something called spike it I tried mustache wax. None of it worked. I gave up. And she rubs her face all the time. It has nothing to do with the hair being in her eyes. She has always done it even when I cut her short. This is her today and no I do not change her ponies every day. But I have found that now that she has an adult coat as long as I'm putting them up clean when I take them out they are still clean as long as I'm changing them out often.. Every couple of days. Then again I am a rotten Havanese mother in comparison to the others on the site.
This is her right now and she needs a change because it's flopping really bad.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hanna (Feb 25, 2016)

Great picture guys.


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## Brooklyn (Sep 3, 2013)

They are all so cute with their topknots!
Brooklyn is great with topknots and doesn't mind them at all. When I ask him "Brooklyn, can I make you a new topknot?" He drops wherever he is and waits patiently until I'm done. I always make him a twisted topknot, it works great for us to get the hair out of his eyes. He hates having hair in his eyes, so he is very cooperative with that. His ponytails are a bit messier now, as he and Kingsley play constantly.

Kingsley is still very squirmy (I give him frozen baby food while I groom him), so the ponytails are usually a bit crooked. He doesn't mind the pigtails, but doesn't like one ponytail because it's in front of his face - unicorn style.


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