# Here come the Giant Havanese!



## Deacon Blues (Nov 22, 2013)

I met a lovely woman at the park with a very large Hav. She saw Rory and commented that I must have purchased a "small head" Havanese (Rory is 8 lbs.).

She said when that her pup hit 20 lbs. she called her breeder and was told that hers was a "large head" Havanese that could grow to 25 lbs. I told her to my knowledge, the breed standard was 7 to 13 pounds and there were no grouping by head size.

She kind of sighed knowingly and we both went on our way. Years ago some German Shepherd breeders started selling oversize dogs as "King German Shepherds". I hope this doesn't happen to the Havanese.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Deacon Blues said:


> She saw Rory and commented that I must have purchased a "small head" Havanese (Rory is 8 lbs.).
> 
> She said when that her pup hit 20 lbs. she called her breeder and was told that hers was a "large head" Havanese that could grow to 25 lbs.


ound: Good one. I'm a pointed head Havanese.......arty:

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Deacon Blues said:


> I met a lovely woman at the park with a very large Hav. She saw Rory and commented that I must have purchased a "small head" Havanese (Rory is 8 lbs.).
> 
> She said when that her pup hit 20 lbs. she called her breeder and was told that hers was a "large head" Havanese that could grow to 25 lbs. I told her to my knowledge, the breed standard was 7 to 13 pounds and there were no grouping by head size.
> 
> She kind of sighed knowingly and we both went on our way. Years ago some German Shepherd breeders started selling oversize dogs as "King German Shepherds". I hope this doesn't happen to the Havanese.


Ha! We call Kodi our "King Sized Havanese" because he is at the top of the standard (though still within standard) and was bred by the Kings.  He is not, however, typical of their dogs&#8230; most of the dogs they breed are moderate in size. He just happened to grow big. He's still not anywhere NEAR 20 lbs!

OTOH, there is NO weight requirement in the breed standard, at least in the U.S. The standard addresses height, not weight. Here's what it says:

"The ideal height is between 9 and 10 1/2 inches, with an acceptable height range from 8 1/2 to 11 1/2 inches. Height at withers under 8 1/2 inches or over 11 1/2 inches is a disqualification,"

Just checked the Canadian standard, and again, there is no weight requirement. It is based on height, and aligns pretty closely with the U.S. requirements taking into consideration the methods of measuring:

"Ideal height at withers 23-27cm (9.0-10.6 inches). Tolerance from 21-29cm (8.3-11.4 inches). Proportion and Substance: Small dog with a sense of refinement yet also sturdy; weight proportionate to height and bone, maintaining a balanced moderate build without exaggeration towards either fragility or coarseness."

Checked FCI (international) also. They don't have any weights either. Still based on height, same as Canadian:

"Height at the withers : From 23 to 27 cm.
Tolerance : from 21 to 29 cm."

But yes, you are right, I have never EVER heard of "small head" or "big head" Havanese. The closest reference I've heard to that is that one group of the dogs that Dorothy Goodale originally worked with had longer faces, (they have sometimes been called "horse faced" and longer, heavier bodies. Because of this, at the same height they were quite a bit heavier than the other type.

While I've never heard of anyone breeding "big head" Havanese before, there certainly are disreputable breeders who advertise "teacup" Havanese&#8230; Havanese that purposely or accidentally are bred smaller than the standard. This is a dangerous practice. Not only does it not conform to our standard, but exceptionally small dogs are more likely to have heart and/or liver defects.

That is NOT the same as the occasional dog produced by a good breeder that happens to be under or over standard. That can just happen&#8230; in any breeding program, and these dogs can obviously make WONDERFUL pets, regardless of their size. But no reputable breeder PURPOSELY breeds for dogs outside the standard.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Molly's height at withers is 9 inches which puts her in the standard. Her weight at only 6 lbs. makes her substantially smaller than her parents and six brothers. She is one of those dogs that was not bred to be small but just turned out that way.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Molly120213 said:


> Molly's height at withers is 9 inches which puts her in the standard. Her weight at only 6 lbs. makes her substantially smaller than her parents and six brothers. She is one of those dogs that was not bred to be small but just turned out that way.


Yup! They are definitely around! 

And I have a friend with a beautiful but tiny (just barely within standard) Havanese bitch. She has her Grand Championship, has had a litter of beautiful pups (who were all in the more typical size range) and she also competes in Agility at the Excellent level! There is nothing necessarily wrong with being little!


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