# Parvo vaccine



## jolynn (Dec 26, 2006)

Okay, I know I've seen things here about the Parvo vaccine and Havs. I did tell my vet that we did not want the shot along with any others; and he did his rabies and other shots separate, but now Skiver is going in next week for his Parvo (plus getting a couple of baby teeth pulled). The vet said he would pretreat him with some benedryl or something in case of a reaction. He's pretty good and I trust him, but I'm still a little worried. I wouldn't even get it, but we have problems with it here in Northern Michigan, and I want my pup to be protected.

What are your thoughts?


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## Olliesmom (Sep 29, 2006)

Ollie and Austin both had Parvo - I know there are many thoughts on certain shots but I had a puppy die from Parvo when I was a young adult - DID NOT want that to happen again!!

Good luck on whatever you decide!!!


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

My parents' dogs both had parvo (the disease) a few years ago. Both survived, but one nearly didn't (she had an amazing recovery just after my dad gave the go ahead to euthanize her because she wasn't improving). The vet bills were in the thousands, and the dogs were very very sick. They had been told when they got the dogs that they had been vaccinated, but that turned out not to be the case. I'm nervous about vaccines for Dusty more than I ever was for our lab, but we'll still go ahead. She hasn't had any bad reactions that I know of, but she had most all her shots before we got her.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I would say in Michigan get it. When we got Belle we were living in Ann Arbor. A month before a neighbor in the same condos bought a golden retriever puppy and it ended up having parvo. We gave her the shot because we knew there was some exposure in the general area.

Amanda


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## Havlady (Aug 2, 2006)

*Parvo*

Parvo is mandatory - and I have not had a problem with it. My pups get 4 Distemper Parvo shots. Lepto and Rabies are the most likely to cause problems.

Parvo is nasty in Texas so my vet is not happy with any less than four shots.


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## Havlady (Aug 2, 2006)

*Vaccination Protocol*

Here is the vaccination protocol we use and recommend on all my pups.


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## Havlady (Aug 2, 2006)

*vaccination protocol*

Try again!

Joanne V Baldwin, DVM

January 12, 2003

I have been a practicing veterinarian in clinical small animal medicine since 1973 and have been actively involved with Havanese (show and breeding) since 1992. I am President of the Havanese Club of America and Chair of the HCA Health Committee and also co-founder of H.E.A.R.T., a non-profit organization dedicated to supporting research into Havanese health issues and educating the public about these issues. In addition to my own dogs I see many other Havanese in my clinical practice. There have been numerous reports of vaccination reactions, some quite severe, in Havanese and I suspect this may be a vaccine sensitive breed.

This is my recommendation for vaccination of Havanese&#8230;

Havanese Vaccination Protocol

•	7-8 wks Distemper/Parvo Vaccine (Intervet Puppyshot)-wait 3 weeks then
•	10-11wks Distemper/Parvo/Parainfluenza,Adeno2 This can be give either as a 5 way, such as Duramune Max 5 or as a distemper/parvo (Intervet Puppyshot) and an intranasal (Intervet KCPlus which includes Adeno2, parainfluenza and Bordetella.) Wait three weeks then
•	13-14wks Repeat 10-11wk vaccination Wait 3 weeks then
•	16-17 wks. Rabies
•	1 year later: Distemper, Adeno2, Parainfluenza , Parvo. Wait 3 weeks then
•	Booster Rabies 3 year vaccination.

I do not recommend the use of Lepto bacterin unless faced with an outbreak and then it should be given separately from all other vaccines at least 3weeks apart from any other vaccination and never before 9 weeks of age. If Lepto is given, be sure that the bacterin used contains the serovar(s) causing the outbreak.

I never recommend using Corona vaccine considering it, at best, unnecessary. There is simply no justification to support the use of this vaccine component.

I have consulted several of the top researchers in the USA, including Ron Schultz and Leland Carmichael (Cornell University) about canine diseases and vaccinations. The general consensus is that annual vaccinations are unnecessary and, indeed, possibly harmful. For my own dogs, I run titers annually even though there is some controversy on their relevance (research has shown that immunity in the face of challenge is dependent on memory cells, rather than antibodies so a low titer does not necessarily indicate lack of immunity.)

Further information on the subject of vaccinations and protocols can be found at a number of internet sites including:
Canine Vaccination Protocols
Richard B. Ford, DVM, MS, Dipl ACVIM 
Professor of Medicine, North Carolina State University
North Carolina, USA
[email protected]
http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2614

Vaccination Protocols Information (a variety of links on the subject)
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/vaccine-protocols.html

www.ivis.org (a search on dog vaccination protocols brings up 387 papers on the subject!)
An example is this excerpt from Dr Ron Schultz:

"Coronavirus vaccines - Although approximately 50% of practices routinely use coronavirus vaccine, most vaccine experts agree that this vaccine is not needed. Some experts consider CCV vaccines useless. Clinical disease rarely occurs with CCV infection and when disease does occur it is usually mild, self-limiting and most commonly seen in pups less than 8 weeks of age - an age which is earlier than vaccine would provide benefit. Based on our observations that the preponderance of clinical cases caused by CCV occur in young pups, any "protection" derived from vaccination of pups or from natural infection would, in the practical sense, last a lifetime. Furthermore, CCV alone has not been shown to experimentally cause significant disease in susceptible dogs. The demonstration that CCV can enhance the severity of disease caused by CPV-2, does not suggest a need for CCV vaccine since dogs vaccinated with CPV-2 vaccine only, are completely protected when co-infected with a combination of CCV and CPV-2. [6] CCV vaccine alone provided no protection for dogs challenged with a combination of CCV and CPV-2."

The complete text of this article can be found online at:

http://www.ivis.org/advances/Infect_Dis_Carmichael/schultz/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1

Dr Schultz is the head of the Dept of Pathobiology at the University of Wisconsin, department of Veterinary Medicine. His complete CV can be found at:

http://svmweb.vetmed.wisc.edu/VetWeb/DesktopModules/Departments.aspx?ItemID=25

If anyone has any questions on this, or other Havanese health issues, feel free to contact me by email: [email protected] or by phone at my office.

Joanne V Baldwin, DVM
Cardinal Animal Hospital
11518 Allecingie Pkwy
Richmond, VA 23235
804-794-8028


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

Actually Doc has updated her vaccination information (I follow this with my puppies also). She now recommends the first series of shots to be between 
8-9 weeks (my babies go tomorrow!).

Here is her most recent update~

May 8, 2007

I am a veterinarian in small animal practice since 1973 and have 
been actively involved with Havanese (show and breeding) since 1992. 
I am the former President of the Havanese Club of America and Chair 
of the HCA Health Committee and also co-founder of H.E.A.R.T., a non-
profit organization dedicated to supporting research into Havanese 
health issues and educating the public about these issues. In 
addition to my own dogs I see many other Havanese in my clinical 
practice. There have been numerous reports of vaccination reactions, 
some quite severe, in Havanese and I suspect this may be a vaccine 
sensitive breed.

This is my recommendation for vaccination of Havanese&#8230;

Havanese Vaccination Protocol

• 8-9 wks Distemper/Parvo Vaccine (Intervet Puppyshot)-wait 3 
weeks then
• 11-12wks Distemper/Parvo/Parainfluenza,Adeno2 This can be 
give either as a 5 way, such as Duramune Max 5 or as a 
distemper/parvo (Intervet Puppyshot) and an intranasal (Intervet 
KCPlus which includes Adeno2, parainfluenza and Bordetella.) Wait 
three weeks then
• 14-15wks Repeat 11-12wk vaccination Wait 3 weeks then
• 17-18 wks. Rabies
• 1 year later: Distemper, Adeno2, Parainfluenza , Parvo. Wait 
3 weeks then Booster Rabies 3 year vaccination. (Some states require 
annual Rabies vaccination. If this is the case, do separate Rabies 
vaccination at least three weeks apart from any other vaccination.)
• Following the 1 year boosters, there are a couple of 
options. 
o AAHA has recommended boostering every 3 years with core 
vaccines. There are now combination vaccinations for distemper, 
adeno and parvo which are labeled for 3 years by challenge. Non-core 
vaccines should only be used if the risk of the disease is greater 
than the risk of the vaccination. Non-core vaccines include 
Bordetella/Parainfluenza, Lyme, and the bacterin, Lepto.
o An alternative is to run titers for distemper/parvo to 
assess likely immunity. There is some controversy about whether a 
low titer actually indicates lack of immunity (see notes about 
memory cells in the references given) but an adequate titer gives me 
confidence about continued immunity.

I do not recommend the use of Lepto bacterin unless faced with an 
outbreak and then it should be given separately from all other 
vaccines at least 3weeks apart from any other vaccination and never 
before 9 weeks of age. If Lepto is given, be sure that the bacterin 
used contains the serovar(s) causing the outbreak.

I never recommend using Corona vaccine considering it, at best, 
unnecessary. There is simply no justification to support the use of 
this vaccine component.

I have consulted several of the top researchers in the USA, 
including Ron Schultz and Leland Carmichael (Cornell University) 
about canine diseases and vaccinations. The general consensus is 
that annual vaccinations are unnecessary and, indeed, possibly 
harmful. For my own dogs, I run titers annually even though there is 
some controversy on their relevance (research has shown that 
immunity in the face of challenge is dependent on memory cells, 
rather than antibodies so a low titer does not necessarily indicate 
lack of immunity.)

Further information on the subject of vaccinations and protocols can 
be found at a number of internet sites including:
Canine Vaccination Protocols
Richard B. Ford, DVM, MS, Dipl ACVIM 
Professor of Medicine, North Carolina State University
North Carolina, USA
[email protected]
http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2614

Vaccination Protocols Information (a variety of links on the subject)
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/vaccine-protocols.html

www.ivis.org (a search on dog vaccination protocols brings up 387 
papers on the subject!)
An example is this excerpt from Dr Ron Schultz:

"Coronavirus vaccines - Although approximately 50% of practices 
routinely use coronavirus vaccine, most vaccine experts agree that 
this vaccine is not needed. Some experts consider CCV vaccines 
useless. Clinical disease rarely occurs with CCV infection and when 
disease does occur it is usually mild, self-limiting and most 
commonly seen in pups less than 8 weeks of age - an age which is 
earlier than vaccine would provide benefit. Based on our 
observations that the preponderance of clinical cases caused by CCV 
occur in young pups, any "protection" derived from vaccination of 
pups or from natural infection would, in the practical sense, last a 
lifetime. Furthermore, CCV alone has not been shown to 
experimentally cause significant disease in susceptible dogs. The 
demonstration that CCV can enhance the severity of disease caused by 
CPV-2, does not suggest a need for CCV vaccine since dogs vaccinated 
with CPV-2 vaccine only, are completely protected when co-infected 
with a combination of CCV and CPV-2. [6] CCV vaccine alone provided 
no protection for dogs challenged with a combination of CCV and CPV-
2."

The complete text of this article can be found online at:

http://www.ivis.org/advances/Infect_Dis_Carmichael/schultz/chapter_fr
m.asp?LA=1

Dr Schultz is the head of the Dept of Pathobiology at the University 
of Wisconsin, department of Veterinary Medicine. His complete CV can 
be found at:

http://svmweb.vetmed.wisc.edu/VetWeb/DesktopModules/Departments.aspx?
ItemID=25

If anyone has any questions on this, or other Havanese health 
issues, feel free to contact me by email: [email protected] or by phone 
at my office.

Joanne V Baldwin, DVM
Cardinal Animal Hospital
11518 Allecingie Pkwy
Richmond, VA 23235
804-794-8028


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## Havlady (Aug 2, 2006)

*Vaccination protocol*

Thanks I have the updated on also. Because of Pravo I will still probably start at 7 weeks.
Sorry I posted the wrong one.


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## HeatherT (Apr 27, 2007)

That's great information! Thanks for sharing. We just got a 5 month old Havanese and he hasn't had any vaccinations yet. The vet suggested waiting a week to give the puppy some time to adjust to his new environment before starting vaccinations. We're pretty much house-bound for now because we don't want to take that chance. We'll definitely be taking these instructions to the vet when we go next week!

Heather


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I went ahead with the Parvo series for Gucci. My vet told me it is a real problem here at the beach and several dogs have gotten it in my area. Better to be safe than sorry.

She hasn't had any reaction to any of her shots yet. Maybe just a little increased drowsiness but that's about it.

Kara


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## jolynn (Dec 26, 2006)

Wow, thanks. Lots of good info. I think maybe I got the lepto and parvo mixed up. My vet is strongly recommending the lepto vaccine, too because of outbreaks here. Maybe that's the one I was worrying about. Regardless, he said that he would avoid giving shots together unless they were in a well-known and established 'cocktail' and would be very careful with him because of his size and breed.

I'm printing out that info!


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Katie, Thats the same list my breeder and my vet are using now, thanks for sharing with everyone. 
I do not do the Lepto or Lyme shots. My vet does not like to do Lepto on any small dogs but is always pushing the Lyme shot on me. I am a little scared to do the lyme shot but I have already found a tick on Monte this year while using K9 Advantix. That was only the 2nd tick I have seen in 1.5 years so do I bother with the shot or not? Any advice would be greatley appreciated.


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## jolynn (Dec 26, 2006)

I just got a call from my hubby; they had to put Skiver under anesthesia to take out his puppy teeth. He isn't losing any of them, and the adult teeth are coming in and there isn't room. Vet said this is bad, and he needs them out; won't be able to eat properly, and this will affect his bite, so he is going to pull them. He is a little nervous about the lepto vaccine, but we have problems here in northern Michigan, and we live out in the woods, where deer are in our yard, and so are raccoons. Skiver could be exposed to their urine, so he said if it were his dog, he would vaccinate him.

Sooo, while he is under, he is going to give him something stronger than benedryl to counteract any possible reaction before they give the vaccine. Then they have to wait for about 20 minutes to make sure he's okay. I am worried sick!!

He also said he isn't sure why he is so tiny; could be a number of things. He said that he is healthy and that we are doing a good job with him, though. 

Send out some good Hav vibes for little Skiver!!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

We are sending Skiver lots of love, good vibes & prayers. I am sure he will be fine!!!
Laurie


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Oh poor Skiver, I think I heard it is common for small breeds to have to have there teeth pulled. Sounds like your vet is doing the right thing keeping a close watch for 20 min. after the Lepto shot. I was told that if they ever have the Lepto shot to stay at the vets for 30 min after, if they are going to have a reaction it will most likely happen fast and the vets office is the safest place to be.

Keep us updated, sending Havie hugs & kisses to Skiver.


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## jolynn (Dec 26, 2006)

I just got the call...Skiver is fine!! He told Daddy that his tongue feels funny (stuck it out at him...it's probably fuzzy from the anesthesia), but he tolerated the shot just fine.:whoo: 

He probably feels weird with some teeth missing, too. Poor guy..the last 2 times he's been at the vet, he's come away with stuff missing!! LOL

DH told the vet to be prepared for another Havanese, since Seaclaid will be here in a couple of weeks. He said 'from the same breeder?' hahaha. And I guess we are still having some toxemia issues with Skiver; every 21 days or so he has diarhea and mucousy stools; vet says it's from the bug he got at the breeders, it's trying to make it's way out, and that's the cycle it has, 21 days. He is strong enough to fight it off, but the next time, we are to bring a sample stool in to be sure, and then another round of steroids:doh: But says that should take care of it for good. He says it's common with puppy mills. Boy he sure uses that term alot. Notice, to my breeder who tends to lurk here and use psuedo names, HIS term. I just stand by the facts. Sick puppy. No health records.

Oh, and he's 4.3 pounds!! Woohooo!! Growing like a bad weed!! 

Anyway, Skiver is fine, thanks for the great Hav vibes!!!


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Yea, good to know everything is fine, Maybe Skiver needs a little Ice Cream tonight to make his tongue & gums to feel better...yum yum.


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## jolynn (Dec 26, 2006)

Yeah, he can share it with Mommy!!!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Awww, I am happy to hear Skiver is a-okay!! The teeth thing is such a pain. 

Oreo has so far retained his upper canines, and they don't budge at all. I got a quote for the two teeth and it will come out to $350!!! Geez, as if I have not spent enough already  It does not seem to be affecting his bite in any way and his gums and teeth are healthy. I will watch them, but I guess I will have to bite the bullet and save up for the operation.

All the others that were loose I pulled myself. Oreo is so used to having my fingers in his mouth that I might as well be his dentist.


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## Jan D (Mar 13, 2007)

Around what age do the baby teeth start to exfoliate? Havee is getting neutered next week and I'm wondering if we should put it off until we know how the baby teeth are doing so that both procedures can be done together if need be. 

Any thoughts on this? Thanks!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Glad to hear Skiver is ok, I am sure he will be great soon. The girls teeth fell out normally and we never had any problems, but Logan got his adult teeth in, which pushed the baby teeth out but kept them stuck in the middle. I didnt realize it until his breath really smelled. The vet just went in with a little pick & pulled them out, and didnt charge me. I was lucky!! I think the only way to know is to ask the vet, maybe they can postpone the surgery till Havee sees them.
Laurie


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Poor little Skiver, glad he's fine:whoo: He is such a special little guy, too small to get sick. Yes, you can have ice cream too!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Good news about Skiver! I'd have been worried too. Such a wee little thing. He's strong now though. He's come a long way, thanks to your diligence, Joanne. Good job!


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## jolynn (Dec 26, 2006)

Skiver was doing really well last night; was a little more loving than usual, wanted more lap time, but was just fine!

The vet didn't even charge me for the teeth extraction! And he got another complimentary pedicure and his ear hair pulled for free; it was just $55 for the whole thing; well dog checkup, lepto shot, anesthesia, tooth pulling, etc. I have a good vet  And I think he was as worried as we were...well almost!

It was funny...as DH was leaving with Skiver, the next patient came in, and the vet says..."great, I went from a 4.3 pound dog to a 104 pound dog..welcome to my world". LOL. He's a country vet, does horses, cows, etc. But Skiver is getting to be one of his favorites; and the ladies in the office never want to give him back to us!!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

That is great to hear, what a deal you got. for all that my vet bill would be around $350 at least. Glad our little boy is doing better!!
Laurie


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Wow, Joanne. Maybe I should move near you. I had to take Shelby to the vet last nite (a case of the poops) and just for an office visit, they did a rectal exam, took her temp and a stool sample fee, it cost $140. Welcome to the big city! :jaw:


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I could probably fly to Michigan, see Skiver's vet fly home and still save money for what all of that would have cost me.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

yeah Skiver .
We are rooting for you . I know how stressful it can be for you two . It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job with him and you have a very special vet .. 
He is a special little guy !! He is lucky to have you there for him making sure he has a great life ..


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## jolynn (Dec 26, 2006)

Thanks  He IS a special little guy. It's amazing how much I love him. I've always had dogs, but never had one that captured my heart quite as much as Skiver, expect maybe my Rotweiller, and I only came into his life in the last 5 years of his when I married my husband. He was a great dog. But Skiver is a little lover!

And he's all better, back to chewing his toys up, so his teeth feel much better!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Aaawww..... I'm not surprised they all love Skyver at the vets'. He's a cutie patootie! 

Great news that he's feeling better all ready. That's our little boy. :whoo:


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