# A little nervous about Rabies shot



## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

My vet did titers and Nala was low in parvo and rabies (plus she legally needs rabies). She did just fine with her parvo shot a few weeks ago. Next week I am taking her for rabies and a microchip (because of this forum!).

The holistic vet wanted us to wait until she was very strong and healthy. She still has abnormal liver test results. There are so many dogs and wild animals where we live that I will feel better when she is vaccinated.

I have read all of the bad stories regarding rabies reactions on the forum...should I be nervous??

I know she had shots before I got her and she didn't have too bad of a reaction.

Annie


----------



## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

Oh....what is wrong with her liver? High ALT? Liver shunt?? Do they know why her liver test is abnormal??? Has she had a rabies shot before (and how long ago?)?


----------



## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

Sorry I wasn't more clear. She had a rabies shot last July before I got her. She has had several rounds of bloodwork. She has had abnormal ALT and Bile Acid Tests but they have improved with her diet, herbs, medications. The vet thinks that she may have a small liver shunt. The vet doesn't think she needs further imaging, surgery etc.

She appears to be healthy and happy!

Annie


----------



## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

Annie,

That's a really tough situation. I know some people think that titers don't have to show high for the memory cells to respond, but I know personally I would want to see them high. And you mention wild animals in the area, so I understand your concern.

The holistic vet wants you to wait, but the regular vet is the one doing the shots? Or is it the holistic vet giving the shot and she thinks your dog is healthy enough at this point? Does she think a month in-between is enough time? 

I have heard of a homeopathic being given before shots (I think it is Thuja?) to help with reactions, but this is likely for general reactions, and not necessarily to help the liver situation. You might want to ask about it anyway and do a search on it (if you find out anything, please let us know).

One other random thought to ask about (again, let us know if you find out anything). Since you did titers just now, and it showed low, and if you go ahead and give a rabies shot, then do another set of titers in a few weeks and it shows a marked increase in the titer response........then, could this be considered as her having accepted the rabies shot and then could this help make future decisions on whether or not to give future rabies shots to her if her liver issues warrant a more conservative approach? I'm not saying this very well....but if the titers go up, then can you assume that antibodies will be formed in her and you can avoid future shots if you need to? (this still doesn't account for be compliant with the law, of course.....but might be useful as a decision making tool in the future with a dog with health issues).

This was suggested to me as a possibility for my dogs with health issues, but I haven't decided yet if I will do this or not. I have not discussed this with a vet yet, so I don't know what they would think if this is reasonable or not. 

I wish I had more advice, but it seems like you are already fairly well informed (having done titers already). There is still so much to prove out there (example: if low titers might still be effective). 

I can offer you my understanding of the nerve wracking aspect of this decision.
Do you know what brand she will be using? (I don't want to say on the forum, but there is one brand* I won't use -- but if it's the holistic vet giving the shot, then she likely wouldn't use this brand). *just lots of things about this company I don't like in regards to the meds and stuff they send out. If it's the regular vet giving it, especially, you might want to find out about what company makes the shot, and then do some heavy googling to find out whether you trust that company or not. That's the only other thing I can think of at the moment. It's good she didn't have a bad reaction last time.....glad to hear that : )


----------



## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

django never did well with his shots. we tittered him and he only needs the rabies shot but it takes it's tole on him. we per the vet supervision give him a small dose of aspirin before he goes in, he's gotten fevers in the past and is a bit out of it so this helps take the edge off things

django had been diagnosed with a liver shunt last year due to high bile numbers. the vet did orthroscopic surgery and his liver was fine but it turns out he had addisons. wasn't eating, lethargic, etc.


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I have also heard of people giving benadryl before going in. But you also don't want to mask a reaction if it is a serious one so it is something to talk to the vet about. 

But if she hasn't had reactions for shots before, then it should ease your mind and good job spacing shots out. It is interesting that your titers came back low- I have honestly never heard of that. How old is she? Isabelle has had titers done and she will be 7 and not one has came back low. Same with Dora going on 5. My Isabelle had a bad reaction so I always panic with Belle with anything at the vet. She recently had to have some teeth removed and I was a basket case. Belle came home within a few hours and was feisty. So sending hugs to you.


----------



## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Hopefully, she will do just fine but be sure you plan to be home and keep a watchful eye one her JIC. I always watch my "kids" very carefully after getting their vaccines because I've heard tales of bad reactions. Marley just got his rabies booster last night.


----------



## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks for the understanding and reassurance! We only go to the holistic vet now so I assume it is a good brand. If you could PM me the brand that you don't like ...that would be great.

Nala's previous health record is really unknown so maybe she didn't get puppy shots and that's why her titers were low. I willl talk to the vet about rechecking titers because I don't want to overvaccinate her.

She is getting her shot at 2 30 and I will be with her the rest of the day but I do have to give a presentation the next day and will be gone all day. Do you think I will know if she had a bad reaction by that morning?? I can certainly have people check on her during the day but don't want her to have a bad reaction while I am gone. I would reschedule it but know we won't be able to get back down to the vet for a few weeks. It's an hour and a half away -but well worth it. I think I am getting more worried!

A


----------



## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

Taylor and Capote got their shots yesterday; I forgot which ones to wait on and it's such a long drive to go to their vet so I just did them all at once.. 

Taylor was fine..a lil sleepy though...Capote was sleepy too but he was whiney..I think he was sore at the injection spot because everytime I'd move him around he'd whimper so I just let him sleep for about 5 hours on my chest while I watched tv..lol. It was kind of welcome though because (although drug induced) he's never much of the cuddly type..he'd rather play and lick and wiggle and squirm. Last night he just lay there and let him love and worry over him.. 

Now that I think of it.....he's such a typical male...lol 

Taylor was my lil trooper..she was happy and normal..just sleepy..and capote was milking being under the weather for all it was worth..lol


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Annie, I feel better knowing you are going to the wholistic vet. Sadly, it seems it is just one of those things that has to be done. It's the Law. I will be thinking of Nala over the next few days and hope she does just fine. Let us know.


----------



## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I think the rabies shot left a tender spot for a day or so but otherwise mine were fine with it. Since it's after 2:30 I hope she did great and is all done by now!


----------



## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Annie, I understand your worry. I feel the same way. I hate that the law obliges all dogs to have Rabies shots as I feel there should be acceptable exceptions. If a vet (holistic or conventional) agrees that there is valid reason to avoid vaccination for a certain dog, then that should be 'legal' and respected by those pushing the law. Blanket vaccines are not ideal, but law-makers don't look at that.  

If Nala has abnormal blood test results, I would avoid any vaccine, but that's me. Been there, done that with Ricky. I was told that in spite of Ricky's liver issues/trauma and all that it meant and still means almost two years later, he COULD have the Rabies shot (if absolutely necessary for travel or something) and should take cortisone/steroids 3-4 days before the shot and 3 or 4 days after. So, shoot him up with a powerful, toxic drug that will cause a reaction in his liver so that he *maybe* will be o.k. to recieve yet another toxic drug, the Rabies shot... ? Sure, makes sense to me! :suspicious::brick::brick:


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Just Checking in on Nala? how did it go?


----------



## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

I postponed it until I could be with her for at least a full day after the shot in case she did have a bad reaction. I was not going to be able to focus at work worrying about her at home by herself.

I will keep you posted. 

I am wondering if Nala has similar issues as Ricky......


----------



## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Annie Clark said:


> I postponed it until I could be with her for at least a full day after the shot in case she did have a bad reaction. I was not going to be able to focus at work worrying about her at home by herself.


That's what I would've done too.  You'll both feel better being together at that time. :tea:


----------



## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Annie, what are Nala's ALT and BAT numbers? The more recent ones?


----------



## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

i think that's wise, i always clear my day when i have to take django in for shots. they say, if a dog is going to have a reaction to rabies, it's within the first 10 minutes so stick around the vet for a few and then head home. she will probalby just feel out of sorts for the day.


----------



## janisp (Aug 1, 2009)

Lyssin (hydrophobinum) is the homeopathic you give after rabies shots. (Ask your holistic vet for it) You use thuja after all the other vaccines. Reactions can come as much as three months after the vaccine (especially with rabies) so watch for skin problems, ear infections, autoimmune problems. It IS scary but most dogs do OK with it. 
JanisP


----------



## Mojo's Mom (Jun 6, 2009)

I can't understand why the rabies titer would be low after only one year, when the vaccine has generally been shown to last for several years.

I would never give any vaccine to a dog with abnormal liver function tests, or any other significant abnormal blood work.

I don't care one whit about the law if it goes against the health of my dog, and I will never do yearly rabies shots. I have not yet decided whether or not to give any rabies shots at all to my puppy, but if I do one I will do only titers after that. I understand you did the titer, but I'm really suspicious of the result.

My vet lets the owner decide about all vaccines, whether required by law or not, and when my last dog was old we stopped all vaccines and the vet told me if anyone from the government gave me any trouble about the rabies he would write me a waiver for health reasons. 

Dumping vaccine into a dog with a major organ possibly compromised is asking for trouble. EVERYTHING has to be processed by the liver, and liver function is much too critical to take chances.


----------



## janisp (Aug 1, 2009)

I don't think she ran titers. You usually have to go by the state's laws and some of them require annual rabies. I agree though, your vet should be able to give you a letter stating the rabies vaccine would be detrimental to the dog's health, and that should get you around the law's requirements. You'd still need to run titers though, if you wanted to kennel the dog anywhere they'd want that.

Far better to spend that money on titers than to spend it on vet bills afterward, in my book. And any vet that wants to do annual boosters on Distemper, Adenovirus, Parainfluenza and/or Parvo needs to check out the new vaccination protocols put out by the major veterinary colleges!. I would change vets if I had one that was that out of date in his thinking.
JanisP


----------



## janisp (Aug 1, 2009)

Oops I'm sorry, she DID run titers! That is very suspicious that it'd come back low after only one year. 
JanisP


----------



## Mojo's Mom (Jun 6, 2009)

Very suspicious...has me wondering if the vet wasn't entirely honest and felt the need to justify his "need" to give the rabies due to legal requirements. My vet leaves those calls up to the client, and although rabies is required annually in Florida, I don't care, I do what's healthy for my dog, and annual rabies vaccines aren't healthy for my dog, period. How much exposure does your Havanese really have to wild animals, anyway? 

Again, the rabies vaccine (and yes, there are several, but ANY of them) as well as most other vaccines have proven to be effective for periods of several years, which is why there are newer vaccine protocols than the old traditional yearly vaccination routine. It's bizarre that you would have had low titers after only one year. I'd repeat the titer, through one of the top labs in the country doing these. Your dog's life could be on the line.

Listen to your "holistic" vet, not the other one. Obviously you've gone to the "holistic" vet for a reason, some need the regular vet wasn't meeting. What's the greater risk: that your dog will be bitten by a rabid animal, or that the rabies vaccine will do serious damage or worse? That's a critical question.


----------



## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

The holistic vet thought that maybe Nala had not received puppy shots and that was why the titers were low.

I went ahead with the shot because there are so many wild animals around and honestly I was afraid of what would happen if she ever nipped someone. 

Happily she didn't have any negative reaction at all. She seemed to feel just fine. And now I don't have to go through any of that for a long time.

It's hard to make these decisions with liver issues going on. And Nala gained a pound! Yippee! She is on the thin side but can't eat fattening meats because of the liver/pancreatitis.

The next big question is if/when to get her spayed.........The holistic vet said to do it before she was 6 or 7 to prevent any infections in the uterus when her hormones begin to shift.

Thanks for all of the advice! I really think a lot of Nala's good health and good behavior (and good haircut!) is from all the info on this forum. Thank you for all of your replies!

Annie


----------



## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

glad to hear all is going well, these little guys sure know how to keep us on their toes!


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Annie Clark said:


> The next big question is if/when to get her spayed.........The holistic vet said to do it before she was 6 or 7 to prevent any infections in the uterus when her hormones begin to shift.


That is wise advice. Obviously, they will want to run a blood panel before they give her any anesthesia, especially with the concern over any liver trouble.

I'm glad the Rabies vaccine went fine. I missed this topic earlier, but any vaccines should only be given to completely healthy animals, so I'm glad your holistic vet encouraged you in that direction. Dr. Jean Dodds is a huge advocate of this point.


----------

