# Learn from my rookie grooming nightmare (photos)



## Deacon Blues (Nov 22, 2013)

*I wrecked Rory.*

I consider myself a conscientious new Havanese owner, but despite the best intentions and lots of effort I managed to mangle my pup's coat to the point it had to be shaved off. I offer my lesson learned as a cautionary tale for others going for the natural long coat.

I had read on this forum and others of those that witnessed their Hav's coat turn into a nightmare when the adult coat started to grow in to replace the puppy coat. When I read that many just shaved it off and started again I vowed it wouldn't happen to me.

I bought the books, the fancy combs and brushes, grooming table, high-end shampoos, etc. I trained Rory to lie still while I line brushed her daily and sometimes twice-daily.

_What I failed to fully understand is the nature of the undercoat._ I thought I was line brushing her to the skin, when what I was really doing was lifting different layers of her top coat only. My frequent brushings only served to make her undercoat into something of a shell.

What my groomer told me is that inexperienced Havanese owners use brushes incorrectly, when their primary tool, used first, must be the comb. _*Comb through completely first, then use the brush.*_

How bad did I mess her coat up? So bad it basically came off in two pieces.

So I'm disappointed in myself and have a long row to hoe to get her coat back where it should be, but the weather is warming up so she won't be uncomfortable and she is bouncy and animated again. I get the sense now it may feel a bit like having a straitjacket put on you . . . slowly. Learn from my shame . . .


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Ah gee I'm sorry.  Its weird isn't it you cant even feel what your trying to comb out. I'm still amazed sometimes when mine have that felting type mess. The saddest thing is I think she lost her light brown or what ever color that was. Your going to enjoy the extra time you have . Be sure you learn and practice behind the ears that's an area that gets bad if you don't keep up with it. Your groomer must have spent the time to comb that part out. She is cute no matter what. All your tools and shampoo will still be used it doesn't take that long to grow back.


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## Deacon Blues (Nov 22, 2013)

Suzi said:


> Be sure you learn and practice behind the ears that's an area that gets bad if you don't keep up with it.


Yes, behind the ears - I need to figure out that much better.

The groomer said they could cut and brush it all out at $20 an hour, and 5-6 hours. I was fine with that until they told me it would be painful to her and she would hate coming back to the grooming shop afterwards.

Still feel terrible.


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## Den&Barb (Dec 6, 2013)

*OMG*. I'm sorry I laughed but... ok I feel bad for you and Rory, but at least it's only temporary.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Long or short coat Rory is just adorable I know just how you feel. My first Havanese Sparky had to be shaved a few times throughout the years. Those little mats seem to just magically appear


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Ah, Rory's coat will grow back. I have always found a great comb to be the best grooming tool and that brushes, if used at all, are best for smoothing and fluffing a bit at the end. True line combing is separating the coat down to the skin so that you literally leave no single hair untouched by the comb. You'll want to start now so you get use to seeing her skin as you comb through her coat. You can really practice on her head and tail but go over all of her even her paws.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

OMG !!!! It will grow back. I'm so sorry you both had to go through that.  still a cute baby


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## Ruthiec (Jun 18, 2013)

Great excuse to go clothes shopping for her


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

The great thing about hair is that it grow back.


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## Sarahdee (Apr 5, 2012)

Don't feel ashamed! You obviously tried your best. This experience has actually left me scared. I hope I'm combing Millie right. Rory still looks super cute. Her hair will grow back in no time. Enjoy your low maintenance summer!


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## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

She still looks adorable. Sophie has the worst coat and I just keep her short. Even short it is very hard to comb. At least Rory is ready for summer!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

In two weeks, it won't look so bad.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Poor Rory and poor Gary. You're such a great Hav daddy so don't feel bad. I think she still looks cute, and I love that her fur is still long on her head and ears. Now she's your little Parisian dog, so you'll have to dress her accordingly! :cheer2:
When Emmie was blowing coat, she went swimming in the Puget Sound (Hood Canal), rolled in the sand and got really dirty. I decided to give her a thorough shampoo and condition but I didn't comb her out well BEFORE bathing her. Needless to say, she ended up full of mats everywhere; it was a huge mess. Here's a picture of her looking less than her best with shaved fur. ound:

-Jeanne-


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

You didn't wreck anything, hair grows back and she's adorable. You got me kind of scared with Mae, however when I do take her to the groomer, like last Tuesday, she said I was doing a great job combing her out so fingers crossed. I have a dumb question though, and don't take this the wrong way, but didn't you feel that there was that layer of matted stuff? Did the comb kind of ride on top of it and make you feel like you were getting down to the skin? I definitely think you made the right decision to start from scratch rather than make poor Rory go through something negative.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

OMG I have never seen anything like that before! But, your pup still looks adorable and hopefully spring is in the air.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

It is not a failure, it's a learning experience. Many of us have been in the same situation of having to have our babies shaved. I felt bad too when it happened to me, but with time, I no longer blame myself at all. I find with my guy, as soon as his hair starts getting quite long it just matts up if I even look at him, he has a really thick undercoat. I'll spend an hour combing him out, then go to touch him and find yet more matts.


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## Deacon Blues (Nov 22, 2013)

jabojenny said:


> I have a dumb question though, and don't take this the wrong way, but didn't you feel that there was that layer of matted stuff?


I have been line brushing her incorrectly since I got her so I essentially created a felt under-layer as smooth and solid as skin. I found and combed out countless mats, but they were simply those in the top coat; I'd remove them and she'd comb through again.

This is like the story of the slow-boiled frog. If you put a frog in really hot water it'll jump back out. If you put it in cool water and slowly raise the temperature it won't know it's been boiled until it's too late.


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

Oh Dear! Well good for you for sharing and many will learn from this and good for you for having her shaved as that was the best decision. She will grow out and the puppy coat will be very cute and nice for summer! Jeanne, How about posting Emmy's current coat picture too!!!It will give him hope! Keep us picture posted!


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## chelsea (Oct 28, 2013)

I think she looks adorable. She looks very stylish with her long bangs. How old was she when she started to blow coat? Zoey is 8 mths now. I try & comb her a little every day to get her used to it & she doesn't love it now so am not looking forward to that adult hair coming in! Btw I find the brush does nothing. How old is your little darling? She's the cutest with or without hair.


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## DawnH (Jan 21, 2014)

Had I not known I'd have mistaken the mats for "Skineez". Sorry you had to shave her but she looks very couture! Her cut is adorable!


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

I have a question, why would you shave your Hav? Does that promote hair growth? I have heard of other dog owners doing the same and I never knew why. Does the puppy coat need to be removed at a certain time? I love this forum because it's also an education.

I know sometimes when I brush my dog when we transition from fall to winter his coat gets very very thick and I am always amazed at what ends up on the comb. Is there a certain type of grooming that should take place between seasons?


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## Ruth4Havs (May 13, 2013)

I feel bad for you - at least it will grow back. Rory is very cute


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

Help, that really made me think, and go back to Cuba to double-check that I really was getting down to the skin. I think I am lucky with her, though. I know the worst could be yet to come, but so far the matts have been minimal and her coat is relatively light and easy. But I'm not relaxing here! I groom her every day without fail, so maybe that's what's kept the worst at bay, I don't know. But I've never seen anything like that shaved-off matt-coat, SO scary. My Coton is much harder to groom than Cuba - the Coton coat is drier and thicker, at least than hers, and takes much more effort. It seems as though the Havanese coat varies quite considerably, judging from the various tales related on this forum.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

littlebuddy said:


> I have a question, why would you shave your Hav? Does that promote hair growth? I have heard of other dog owners doing the same and I never knew why. Does the puppy coat need to be removed at a certain time? I love this forum because it's also an education.
> 
> I know sometimes when I brush my dog when we transition from fall to winter his coat gets very very thick and I am always amazed at what ends up on the comb. Is there a certain type of grooming that should take place between seasons?


As you can see from the picture of Rory's shaved coat the hair close to the shin had formed into one continuous mat. If this coat weren't shaved off the mat would have continued to get worse as new hair grew in, tightening and pulling at the skin which becomes painful to the dog. Infections can set in and the result is a miserable dog and possibly serious health issues. When you groom your Hav, you need to be certain that you are getting to the skin, are able to see the skin as you part and brush/comb through the coat. I prefer a comb to a brush because with a brush it is too easy to skim over the top of a mat and not realize it. A comb just won't go through a mat but can be used to pick a small mat apart. Rory's coat could have been picked through and unmatched BUT it would have taken her groomer hours all of which would likely have been painful to Rory. This would likely have soured her on grooming for the rest of her life. That is why the groomer recommended shaving the coat and starting over. Rory's hair will grow back and her owner will have time to learn how to comb her coat so that mats don't have the chance to take over again. With your dog, just be sure you are able to part the hair anywhere on his body and see skin. If you can't then his coat may have formed mats like Rory's did. If that has happened then the coat should be shaved off and grooming technique should be changed so that the coat doesn't mat going forward.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

Happened to me and Henry too.
How is Rory doing? Probably feels better. Henry was a bit depressed and embarrassed afterwards and I had to cheer him up by playing lots of ball with him.


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

Just wanted to add: what a really good thing this forum is that we can feel safe to admit our disasters here. That is such an achievement, that our little community is so supportive and non-judgemental that we can feel strong enough to say when we've screwed up. I am really proud to be a part of it. And congratulations, Deacon Blues, for recognising that you could have the guts to say what happened, and thereby help the rest of us.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lalla said:


> Just wanted to add: what a really good thing this forum is that we can feel safe to admit our disasters here. That is such an achievement, that our little community is so supportive and non-judgemental that we can feel strong enough to say when we've screwed up. I am really proud to be a part of it. And congratulations, Deacon Blues, for recognising that you could have the guts to say what happened, and thereby help the rest of us.


I agree completely, Lalla!!!


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

I've now gone over Cuba with a fine face (if not tooth) comb, and I think we are ok. She's thoroughly fed up with me, but too bad! At least I know I can see to the skin all over her little body and that I haven't been deluding myself that I've been grooming her diligently. Phew. Now I can concentrate on worrying about all the other things I'm probably getting wrong....geez this is a minefield, this dog-ownership! I'm sure children are easier....! Actually, no I'm not!


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## jcbpaisley (Mar 6, 2013)

Awwww!!

I had to laugh at the shaved picture of Emmie, I hadn't seen that before! Hopefully that gives you hope since you know what a lovely long coat she has now  give Rory just a couple of months and she'll be fluffy again. (And be prepared for a lighter-colored Rory as well!)

Very good lesson about the brush! I use the brush for two things: a quick once-over a the beginning of a grooming session to knock out any light tangling, and again at the end to make her look "finished". In between it's all comb, and you have to get those teeth down to the skin (make sure you can part her hair down to the skin anywhere on her body, and you don't see any tangling or strange texture in the hair near the skin).

Coat blowing is a nightmare though. I think for a lot of us who are first-time owners of long haired dogs, by the time the coat blow hits we haven't yet developed enough grooming skills to handle it, since their coat has been short and low-maintenance so far. It was really tough for me. I had some days when Diva's hindquarters matted up so I couldn't see skin when I parted the hair, but I was able to get it out at home. Now you have a fresh start and don't have to deal with it! Diva's breeder advises puppy owners to shave down around that age anyway and just skip the whole mess.

There is a Pekingese I see around Belltown who always wears a lion cut and I think he looks very glam. Get Rory some cute sweaters and bows 

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## Celesthav (Mar 20, 2013)

Gary,
Thank you for posting about blowing coat mats! Maggie started blowing coat in March at 9 months old. When I read your post, I went over Maggie finely with a comb and found a few mats I had missed. Don't be disappointed in yourself. It's an new adventure, a learning experience. I think you summed up the mats well by saying, "understanding the nature of the undercoat". It's a beast!!! I call blowing coat, "mat bunnies". It seems right after combing Maggie, I find another mat bunny. They're blowing everywhere. After a thorough brushing yesterday afternoon, I found a mat under her arm in the evening. It's truly a learning experience.*Kudos for an insightful groomer to let you know she could get the mats out but Rory would suffer. You made the right call to cut out her mats and trim her. Even though it wasn't a choice, it's fun to try new.

I think Rory looks wonderful in her new style. If she could speak, she would say, "I feel good!!! I feel SO good!!! Thanks Dad!" I bet she's faster than before running around chasing you. Have fun with the new style, enjoy it! The fur does grow fast. Maggie's going in for grooming Friday. She will get a body puppy cut, leaving face, ears and tail long. She's blowing coat and will be spayed next week. We'll both be happy with the new style.

Jeanne & Maggie


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Here are a couple of pictures of Emmie from Jan 2014; they were taken 1 year after she was shaved down. Picture #1 was taken after a grooming appt and picture #2 was taken with her Havanese buddy, Benjamin. hoto:

-Jeanne-


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## Celesthav (Mar 20, 2013)

Emmie is adorable! Maggie turns 10 months old tomorrow. I measured her fur and she has about 7" to 9" of growth depending on where I measure. I see you also have a black Hav. Another reason I want Maggie trimmed is for critter season. The dark and thick fur makes it difficult to feel for ticks, etc. Not to mention Maggie's a leaf magnet. So far no critters have hitched a ride.
I'm taking pictures of Hav cuts to show the groomer since my interpretation of a puppy cut and hers might be different. I intend to stay at the groomers too. 
Thanks for sharing the pictures of Emmie and her friend.
Jeanne & Maggie


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

Wow, I never knew that, Django is in a puppy cut and he lets me comb him daily so thank goodness he's matt free. There are time however when a tiny one starts and it's amazing what a bear those can be to comb out. Love this forum.


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## Deacon Blues (Nov 22, 2013)

Rory under a coat. I asked the groomer not to trim the face so it could grow back out after the last face trim but she did it anyway and halfway at that. I was too flustered with the body shave to deal with the unwanted face trim.


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## dianaplo (Dec 30, 2013)

She is a pretty girl! I think I've learned from your experience. Time will tell and hair will grow.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

Rory looks adorable in that cute little coat


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Rory's looking very stylish in her pretty red coat!


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## Celesthav (Mar 20, 2013)

Rory looks so glamorous! Love her jacket. Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll stay with groomer and keep a close eye on her. 
Jeanne


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## Ditto's Mom (Apr 29, 2007)

Love Rory's red coat, she's styling!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

She looks adorable in her red coat! You can grow her face and the rest of her coat out together. Actually, since she had to be shaved, I think the groomer did the right thing. When their faces are left COMPLETELY long and they are shaved, they end up looking like a bobble head! The groomer did do a really cute job on her face.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

I love her little red coat.


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## jcbpaisley (Mar 6, 2013)

Her face looks cute! But if it isn't what they asked for they could have at least called you before doing it... Where are you getting her groomed?

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## Deacon Blues (Nov 22, 2013)

jcbpaisley said:


> Where are you getting her groomed?


Hi Julia, Scruff to Fluff in Kirkland has been doing Rory. Lots of Hav owners go there and she knows the breed, I'm just unhappy that she would go against my wishes after we had discussed it.

Now I understand why many forum members are loathe to leave their dogs unattended at the groomer. :frusty:


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I know just how you feel. It was always a surprise picking up my first Havanese from the groomers. I always will remember taking Sparky to the groomers before Christmas. I wanted to take a Christmas picture of him. When I picked him up I was shocked. Completely shaved...You could see his pink skin ( Needless to say he never returned to that groomer. My husband said he would not walk him without a coat. It took a few months for him to become the fluffy little one again. Now I have a wonderful groomer who comes to the house.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

*Lessons Learned*

Hi All! After Gary's post, I wanted to share my personal experience with my own Havanese Scout. Scout has an amazing coat and it has been extremely challenging even though I had a Havanese in the past. It is very Coton du Tulear like and mats just looking at it. The best decision I made with Scout was I hired a home groomer, Debbie Kent Kent's Kanines and to start the grooming experience at six months old ( I should have started at three months) so he would accept the grooming process.. My intention was to keep him in a full coat and not have a hair cut. That being said my husband brought Scout to the park in the rain and to the self grooming place without my knowledge etc etc etc!!!!!&#8230;&#8230;So often times he would become severely matted. But then Debbie always comes to the rescue with her dematting magic  At no time has she ever shaved him. We have also found some very good products that have helped to keep the coat more manageable. I have also observed her brushing and combing technique and can confirm that he is first brushed and then combed 100% throughly before the bath. She brushes first and combs every eighth inch of him prior to the bath. I have learned these skills from her. Bathing is also a production. She has found that Pure Paws Silk Basic shampoo and conditioner (following the dilution instructions) are great products. Believe if or not because Debbie completely dematts his coat prior to the bath, she can comb through his entire coat while the conditioner is working to further enhance the silkening benefits of this conditioner. The he is then throughly dried and not left damp in any way. In the year and half that Debbie has been coming to the house, it has been a learning process for me in how to maintain Scout's coat. I realize how any water can mat the hair. I have become much more disciplined with brushing and combing him between professional groomings, twice a week at least and using Pure Paws H2O hydrating mist sparingly when needed to help dematt him. I, too, bought a grooming table after Debbie said it would help Scout build confidence and trust and facilitate ease with brushing and combing. I know Havenese are high maintenance and require time, energy and patience but, the end results are worth the time and efforts.
PS. I mentioned that I have two Havanese in prior posts so, I thought I would include a picture of Truffles. Scout loves her and what's a little more brushing and combing!!


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## Ruby Tuesday's mom (Jul 15, 2012)

I have my baby girl groomed every 2 months and even with combing her every day or 2 - mats are tough!! She has that cottony hair too vs. the silky kind. My huge mistake was taking Ruby Tuesday to a new groomer closer to my house, etc. etc. etc. last Saturday . . . for a "trim". When I went back to get her - they had shaved her . . . left her fluffy tail and ears and the rest was shaved!! Could see her pink skin!! Keep telling myself it is just hair and it will grow back - but couldn't quite believe it. Groomer told me she found a mat and just decided to shave her - over A MAT . . . geez . . . learned my lesson - a longer drive is definitely worth it!! So sorry you had to go through all that with your pup - but it will grow back - RIGHT???? The positive side was that I thought RUby was getting a little chunky - definitely not true - was all hair!! So she will be happy not to be cut back on her food!!


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

Heather Glen said:


> Hi All! After Gary's post, I wanted to share my personal experience with my own Havanese Scout. Scout has an amazing coat and it has been extremely challenging even though I had a Havanese in the past. It is very Coton du Tulear like and mats just looking at it. ]
> 
> I have a Coton de Tulear and a Havanese. The Coton coat is definitely FAR harder to groom than the Havanese, in my case, although I do realise that I seem to have a relatively easy coat in Cuba's - but I do groom them both every single day. A day's break from it and I regret it. I've never taken either dog to a groomer, and since joining this forum I don't think I ever would!! I appreciate that there are really good ones out there but the lottery of finding such a person is beyond my pain threshold. It's not just what awful things might be done, even with the best of intentions, to the coat; it's any psychological damage that might happen. Or worse. I suppose it's like daring to leave your child with a baby sitter, but I don't have children so haven't had to make those leaps of trust. Anyway. My sympathies go out to all those who've had nightmare experiences, and certainly since reading this thread I've been super-vigilant to make sure I can see skin between each line-groom!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I have learned Scout must to be brushed and combed daily to keep those little mats away. It is easier on both of us Truffles is easy, but she is only 6 months old.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Honey, don't sweat it, hair grows back. There are worse things than a shaved pup! Besides, he looks cute! Wait until the hair grows to 2-3 inches, he'll look as fluffy as a cloud.


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