# Hillsborough havanese review? (NJ)



## Nirzhar Kar

Index

Thats their website. I have emailed about 4-5 places and only they answered back. So wondering if anyone have heard about them. Also is 2000 a lot for a havanese? Any tells of their website that screams stay away? or any good things?


----------



## boomana

They say they do health testing, but there's nothing really there about the dogs they breed, and more about rescues, which is a bit concerning. It doesn't look like they show them. I guess it's worth asking more questions.


----------



## MarinaGirl

I recommend you read this post to learn how to assess if a breeder is reputable or not and red flags you should not ignore.

Sticky: Things to Look for in a Reputable Breeder

Good luck!


----------



## krandall

I think there are several people on the forum who have Hillsborough dogs and are happy with them. I don't know them personally at all. $2200 is about mid-range for this part of the country. Here in MA, it tends to be about $2500 from quality breeders, while in the south, it is sometimes closer to $2000 (also from good quality breeders).


----------



## Nirzhar Kar

So several people have hillborough havanese? Hmm do you know any names of the people?a I would love to contact them specifically to r experience.


----------



## Pamela Oryshchyn

The page isn't loading very well for me. I do see at least one CERF number coming up. You might be able to put their kennel name into the OFA search and see if they have dogs listed with health testing there. That has worked for me in the past to find out just how consistent someone is with testing. 

Finding a good breeder is hard work! 

good luck!


----------



## Nirzhar Kar

I have been emailing back and forth with laurie from hillborough and she is amazing! She has replied to all my emails/questions about everything very fast and thorough. She takes her time explaining everything and so far i think she is perfect. I will eventually go visit her as well since i think the few she is expecting next year are spoken for but i think she will be my future breeder if all else seems good once i visit. I dont think she shows her dogs but is that really that important? I honestly dont care about that as much compared to the dogs being tested and having a good history or should i care? Not sure but for now she is amazing and perfect in my opinion. I want someone who can not just be my breeder but also communicate well and not seem bothered when i ask questions.


----------



## krandall

Nirzhar Kar said:


> I have been emailing back and forth with laurie from hillborough and she is amazing! She has replied to all my emails/questions about everything very fast and thorough. She takes her time explaining everything and so far i think she is perfect. I will eventually go visit her as well since i think the few she is expecting next year are spoken for but i think she will be my future breeder if all else seems good once i visit. I dont think she shows her dogs but is that really that important? I honestly dont care about that as much compared to the dogs being tested and having a good history or should i care? Not sure but for now she is amazing and perfect in my opinion. I want someone who can not just be my breeder but also communicate well and not seem bothered when i ask questions.


I have mixed feelings about the importance of showing. With less experienced breeders, it DOES give them feedback on structure that they can't learn in a vacuum. And structure is VERY important, because it is the basis of soundness. OTOH, I have seen some dogs finish that I would NEVER want a puppy from, and I've seen some very nice dogs never finish, either because the breeder just didn't have the time or energy or because "life happens". For instance, a very nice bitch I know lost a big piece of her tail (bone, not just hair) in an accident... end of her show career, but there was NO reason not to breed her.

As I've told you before, I know that there are several people on the forum with her dogs, and they seem happy with them. I haven't heard any complaints. (which is good) HOWEVER, if it were me, I'd want to have a good long talk with her about why she doesn't show, and how she evaluates her dogs for structure and chooses breeding stock and plans matings. Don't do it in an accusatory way (as some people do when grilling breeders) tell her you just want to understand. She may have solid reasons for doing as she does.

I may go farther than many people, but soundness is SO important to me because of the sports I do. I would not buy a dog if I couldn't see soaps of the parents AND the puppy. I NEED straight legs, and this breed is rife with crooked legs. Some of these crooked front dogs do just fine in low impact pet homes, but a large number of them do end up with arthritic problems as they age. And this is someplace that a dog being shown tells you nothing. All too many judges will put up a dog with crooked legs.


----------



## Nirzhar Kar

krandall said:


> I have mixed feelings about the importance of showing. With less experienced breeders, it DOES give them feedback on structure that they can't learn in a vacuum. And structure is VERY important, because it is the basis of soundness. OTOH, I have seen some dogs finish that I would NEVER want a puppy from, and I've seen some very nice dogs never finish, either because the breeder just didn't have the time or energy or because "life happens". For instance, a very nice bitch I know lost a big piece of her tail (bone, not just hair) in an accident... end of her show career, but there was NO reason not to breed her.
> 
> As I've told you before, I know that there are several people on the forum with her dogs, and they seem happy with them. I haven't heard any complaints. (which is good) HOWEVER, if it were me, I'd want to have a good long talk with her about why she doesn't show, and how she evaluates her dogs for structure and chooses breeding stock and plans matings. Don't do it in an accusatory way (as some people do when grilling breeders) tell her you just want to understand. She may have solid reasons for doing as she does.
> 
> I may go farther than many people, but soundness is SO important to me because of the sports I do. I would not buy a dog if I couldn't see soaps of the parents AND the puppy. I NEED straight legs, and this breed is rife with crooked legs. Some of these crooked front dogs do just fine in low impact pet homes, but a large number of them do end up with arthritic problems as they age. And this is someplace that a dog being shown tells you nothing. All too many judges will put up a dog with crooked legs.


"I may go farther than many people, but soundness is SO important to me because of the sports I do."

but what if i am not interesting in showing my havanese ever or have my havanese compete in any sport? Is it really that important in that case? I dont care as much about certain show criterias then i do about the actual things thats important like genetics/health/ all the testings. If all the testings are good and both dogs are healthy and good genetics, wouldnt that be the only thing thats important?


----------



## krandall

Nirzhar Kar said:


> "I may go farther than many people, but soundness is SO important to me because of the sports I do."
> 
> but what if i am not interesting in showing my havanese ever or have my havanese compete in any sport? Is it really that important in that case? I dont care as much about certain show criterias then i do about the actual things thats important like genetics/health/ all the testings. If all the testings are good and both dogs are healthy and good genetics, wouldnt that be the only thing thats important?


Well, a dog with bad patellas in its lines might pass an OFA patella test itself, but produce offspring with bad patellas. Maybe you could live with a dog who runs on 3 legs, as they often do, but it wouldn't work for me. Likewise, there is no testing requirement by HCA for straight front legs. But a dog with seriously bowed front legs, (which is often (but not always) a sign of chondrodysplasia) is going to put a lot of stress on his body over the years. I have a friend who bought a dog like this when she didn't know as much as she does now. The dog is now 10 years old, and already has a lot of arthritis because of it's poor build. This breed can easily live for 15-17 years. Do you want a dog who is suffering with arthritis for a 3rd or more of their life span? That's what can happen when people don't purposely breed for good conformation.

And I'm not saying she doesn't. But how does she KNOW, if she isn't having her dogs evaluated by a neutral third party. It's easy to become "kennel blind".


----------



## KarMar

Not to mention a breeder who is consistently turning out puppies with poor conformation is one I would never feel comfortable giving my money to, no matter the planned use for my dog. Nino shows in conformation and is training in agility, but even if I was just buying a pet, I would feel slimy buying a puppy from a breeder who doesn't stress sound structure.


----------



## Nirzhar Kar

Hmmm interesting. Sigh I was having such good communication with her and heard good things about her from the research I did here from the past. This sucks lol. I do know her stud is from a reputable place who does show.(wyndward havanese I think).


----------

