# awful brown staining



## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

help, my dog's eyes are a mess again! any tips on reducing the gross runny brown drainage that comes out of their eyes? he also has a potential wheat allergy and i need a low cal non beef treat. his tear ducts are also plugged, this is the 3x in 4 years, i've had them irrigated 3x. i was going to have them done again when he had his teeth cleaned but last time he had a difficult time recovering from it so i opted to not have it done.. angel eyes, not an option, doesn't work. any suggestions?


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## elregalohavanese (Jun 20, 2007)

*eyes*

We switched our male to bottled spring water. The minerals in our city tap were making his tearing worse. It greatly improved when we switched water.??? Something simple to try... It took a couple days to notice a difference but there certainly was one.Susan


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## Ditto's Mom (Apr 29, 2007)

I agree with Susan about the minerals in tap water. We have not had staining and eye gunk since changing to distilled water.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

what is the difference between distilled and regular bottled water?


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## Ditto's Mom (Apr 29, 2007)

Distilled water must be put through a filtration or mechanical process in order to revove contaminants and minerals. Where as bottled or spring water still contain natural minerals which in some cases cause staining and tearing in dogs.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

I did the distilled water for a while, but I know it zaps minerals that people need so I'm pretty sure it will do the same to our pups. Now she just gets filtered water and I clean her eye are twice a day. She has some brown staining, but I'm just kind of "dealing with it" as it seems to bother me more than it bothers her.

I have also started giving her Eyebright, it's an herb and totally safe for dogs and humans. You can also do an eye wash with eyebright, it's been used for centuries. You can get it in a dry capsule form, this is how I buy it, and then open the capsules and put it in water for a wash or put it over their food.

I am feeding Posh a grain free food now, and giving her lamb jerky treats.

Good luck!


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

I had both out for awhile.... Oliver wouldn't touch the distilled water but he will drink bottled water......


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## Ditto's Mom (Apr 29, 2007)

Interesting read on water: www.aquatechnology.net/frame156976.html


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## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

My groomer suggested giving Havanna a tablespoon of yogurt a day to help keep tear production down. The yogurt also helps keep yeast from growing in the ears, thus helping prevent ear infections.

Michelle


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

There is so much conflicting information out there in cyberspace. Here is an article I read on distilled water-http://www.mercola.com/article/water/distilled_water.htm


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Amy, interesting article! Sally, that is so interesting that Oliver can tell the difference between distilled and bottled water! 

Littlebuddy, have you tried Eye Envy? It is non-antibiotic. It is a combo of a refrigerated solution you use to clean the eye area, plus a white powder you then sprinkle on the eye area (probably a finely milled cornstarch, but not sure - it is a "secret"). You use it every day. At a minimum, it is an eye-cleaning regimen. Some Hav owners have had good results with it.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Jane--Oliver has always been a picky eater


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

Is there a difference the water labeled "drinking water", over "distilled water"?


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## JeanMarie (Mar 2, 2008)

I have been giving Riley 1/8 tsp of angeleyes in a teaspoon of plain yogurt for the last week. I also have the eye envy and will be using that soon. The eye envy will get rid of the stain but won't stop the brown gunk...hopefully the angel eyes is doing that. Also using filtered water. Check your food and see if it contains beet pulp/juice. I heard that can cause staining as well. We'll see...otherwise, I will just forget about it and wash his little face everyday and deal with it. He's a darling boy, even with the brown streaks.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

oh, i've done the yogurt thing, he gets only purified water, which he's been drinking since a pup, i rinse his eyes with saline daily and clean daily but it's just soo bad, and withsummer around the corner, i'll just keep on it.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

what's eye envy?


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Checkout Eye Envy here:

http://www.eyeenvy.com/


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Black and White dogs*

For some reason, everyone with a black and white dog I know seems to have the brownish colored staining. It is weird, especially around the mouth. Daisy drinks purified water too.

Luckily the area around her eyes is black so you cannot see that staining. I do know that this season both of my guys have a lot of goop this season. Some of it is because I cut their hair short around the face, actually the longer hair was messy but didn't get into the eyes as much!

And I think it is allergy season. Someone on the havanese list recommended a combination of corn starch and something else that you rub in and it makes the stains go away...but obviously I have forgotten.

Daisy is black and white, with a little brown. One of my friends won't let Daisy kiss her because she looks dirty. Sigh.

Linda


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

About 3 weeks ago I put Lola on Pawier vitamins based on a rec I saw here on the forum. It has dramatically reduced the tears and gunk. I still have to wash her eyes fo rhte gunk, I just use a damp washcloth, or carry Nature Bath eye wipes with me. A flea comb smooths the hair - if I can hold her still long enough to do it. Angel eyes did not work, and the more I read, the less I wanted to use it. When Lola was outside playing for 3 hours yesterday, her eyes were very runny. It must be wind and allergies.


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Also for the non-wheat treats...there are many that use oats, millet, other grains. Try Natural Balance turkey/oatmeal/cranberry or bison/barley/blueberry cookie treats. Also, you might try their duck and potato formulas.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Anne, I always forget about the Pawier. I used that on one of my dogs and had a drastic reduction in tearing and staining.

Linda, you should see Lincoln in person (Jane's Hav). He has absolutely no staining at all and he's black & white. Two of my former puppies that are all white have zero staining also. It is amazing to see the faces of Wilson & Rigatoni (formerly known as Cartier & Mikimoto). Christy will have to answer to be certain, but I don't think that Rufus has staining either and he's very light (white with silver markings).


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*No chicken for us*

My guys actually now eat a grain free dehydrated raw. Daisy still just came in from running around outside and her eyes are all wet...but so are mine! It is allergy season in Southern Cal. The wind is blowing like crazy...but it sure is nice though that it isn't cold or hot.

I think it is just the way it is with hair that goes in your eyes, like living all the time with a convertible car.

Our new food that they love is called Addiction, which is a hyperallergenic foruma. It is made out of brushtail, some animal in New Zealand with Omega 3 and Sunflower Seeds. It is an alternative to chicken, beef, or lamb.

My dogs do well on venison, but it can be expensive. And they take the raw food around the house...this is why I like the dehydrated...it is kind of mushy so they just eat it without carrying it around!

Linda


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*no staining*

Wow! That would be nice! I'd love to see photos.

My dogs are very clean. Riki doesn't tear up as much as Daisy does...she has many more allergies than he does too. He is a tough dog. She is my little one with skin stuff.

Linda


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I believe I took a good picture of Wilson on Saturday, but I haven't uploaded those photos to my site yet. His owner sent this picture of him to me in March, and it is a little dim, but you can see how stain-free his face is.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Ohhh, he is beautiful!
I have been having good luck with grain free diets. The staining is gone.
Carole


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*What a beauty*

Does his owner use Pawier? Or is he just a lucky good looking dog?
Linda


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Wow - Wilson looks fabulous. Love that there is no staining whatsoever.


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

I had tear stain problem with Houston. I changed to filtered water and it still wasn't working. My breeder recommended this thread

http://www.bhejei.com/tearsta.htm

I tried Tums but it gave Houston the poops. We have been doing very well on the white vinegar added to his water. In fact, he won't drink his water unless the vinegar is in it. LOL. I can tell the difference when I neglect to give it to him for a few days.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

for anyone using the envy eye, do you use the shampoo, what's your routeen, a lot of product to choose from.


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## Ditto's Mom (Apr 29, 2007)

Wow... Wilson looks beautiful and no staining. 
Is he eating grain-free food and drinking bottled water?


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

he's eating grain free, wellness chicken, however his treats have wheat in them. i had switched him to a wheat free treat from wellness and the treats were too rich for his belly, bad gas and bad poops but his eyes cleared up. he gained 2 lbs in 2 months! but his eyes looked great. vet said i had to put him on a diet, he was borderline fat. i put him back on the lean chicken treats and everything has cleared up but his eyes are bad now. i need to find a lean wheat free treat.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I believe Wilson is eating Fromm Salmon A La Veg. I am not sure about the type of water he drinks, but he drinks from a drip bottle (e.g. Lixit) so his face isn't dipped into water. I'll let Kristen know about this thread and see if she will reply.

Editing to add a photo of Wilson from this weekend. Unfortunately, as difficult as it is to shoot a black dog indoors, I have the same trouble with getting a white dog outdoors. My settings were wrong to fully appreciate Wilson's gorgeous face, but you can get an idea of how pure white his face is here:


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## Wilson's Mom (Apr 26, 2007)

Thank you Kimberly for the wonderful pic. We clean Wilson's eyes everyday using a flea comb to get the gunk out. He is pretty used to the routine although we will let him have a floosie to make things easier and faster. His groomer also trims the his hair around his eyes and this helps too. Wilson does drink bottled water and eats Fromm.


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## judith (Dec 15, 2006)

coco has been on pawiers, distilled water, yogurt, daily cleaning and still has staining and eye gunk. angel eyes worked great but i am not comfortable using it longterm. any ideas?


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## judith (Dec 15, 2006)

and fromms. judy


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Judith, the eye goop/gunk is normal and will be there no matter what you use. 

Does Coco have wetness under his eyes or is it staining from the goop sitting on the hair? Both are treated differently. If his face is wet, you may need to consult your veterinarian about flushing his eye ducts. If the staining is from the eye goop, you just need to take extra care to keep that off his hair and remove it as often as it forms. Some dogs produce a lot more goop than others.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

my guys is tears that run down his face that cause staining, i know he needs his tear ducts flushed, this will be the third time in 3 years,hate to put him under, will talk to vet when i take him in in a few weeks for rabies.


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## elregalohavanese (Jun 20, 2007)

*eye stains*

I know a couple of breeders of other breeds with this problem and they periodically apply a thin layer of vaseline under the eye area so that the tears will run off rather than soak in...I have not tried it myself...but it was recommended to me by another breeder. Just an idea...??


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

elregalohavanese said:


> I know a couple of breeders of other breeds with this problem and they periodically apply a thin layer of vaseline under the eye area so that the tears will run off rather than soak in...I have not tried it myself...but it was recommended to me by another breeder. Just an idea...??


I've also read this from a breeder's blog, and this breeder has beautiful dogs with minimal staining. I think she cleans her dogs eyes twice a day-morning and night and applies vaseline after the eye area is clean. Obviously one would not get too close to the eyes.

Interesting Kimberly about the wet vs. goop. Reading this, I think Posh may have a duct issue. I will read up on an Eyebright wash...see if that will help. I definitely don't want to do any Angel Eyes.

Also, Winston is stunning!


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## TobyBaby (Mar 8, 2008)

For low call, grain-free treats have you tried zuke's mini naturals?


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

TobyBaby said:


> For low call, grain-free treats have you tried zuke's mini naturals?


Kim Posh LOVES these!!! They were sent with some things I ordered from Petflys and when I tried to order some I noticed they were sold out. I will look again.


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## judith (Dec 15, 2006)

kimberly, coco's eye's seem to run continually, but not clear, rather quite goopy. maybe the vasaline would be worth trying. i really try to keep them clean.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

littlebuddy said:


> my guys is tears that run down his face that cause staining, i know he needs his tear ducts flushed, this will be the third time in 3 years,hate to put him under, will talk to vet when i take him in in a few weeks for rabies.


Did you notice an improvement after the tear ducts were flushed?

I asked my canine opthalmologist about having this done for Scout (he has lots of goop), but he said it may or may not really help. I decided for now not to do it.


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## JeanMarie (Mar 2, 2008)

Just a quick note on Angel Eyes. I just returned from a visit with my vet and told him I had Riley on 1/8 tsp of Angel Eyes a day and it did seem to be helping. He said he didn't have a problem at all with it! He said the tylosin has been used for ages on dogs with IBS and they are on it for life with no ill effects or problems taking antibiotics for other problems. I've gone to this vet for over 15 years (with my kitties) and he's very conservative and careful. He says the veterinary assoc grumbles about this product primarily because they think Tylosin should be only dispensed by a vet. He says to "go for it if it works!"

Just thought I'd share.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

My groomer also recommended the vaseline dabbed at the lower corner or each eye with a q-tip. She said it prevents stains and makes removing the **** easier. Haven't tried it yet, but it does seem to be very dry around Jackson's eyes because I use baby shampoo on his face which is drying. He also gets a lot of wetness around his mouth from chewing. Then the hair dries in clumps which gets very hard and difficult to comb out as well. What can be used besides vaseline to keep from drying on the face? Are there any tear free conditioners?


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## judith (Dec 15, 2006)

the dog ophthalmologist that did coco's cerf test ok'd it as well.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

the breeder also suggested vaseline. i am switching my dog from wellness to a dehydrated raw diet, his kibble looks like little square poker chips. hopefully the diet will help clear things up.


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> He also gets a lot of wetness around his mouth from chewing. Then the hair dries in clumps which gets very hard and difficult to comb out as well. What can be used besides vaseline to keep from drying on the face? Are there any tear free conditioners?


I have found that the best way to manage the wetness on the beard is to wipe Lola off with a Nature Bath wipe while it is still wet , or newly dried after she eats. They do the job of spot cleaning and are not so wet as she would be from a face wash.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

The white dogs are absolutely stunning! I'm sorry I don't remember the names, as I am just now reading this thread from the beginning. I know that Kimberly took at least one picture and I think they were her babies. Gorgeous!

My groomer too recommended a dab of vaseline in the corner to keep the tears from sticking and to keep the hair from the eyes.

I also wanted to report on a product that was mentioned on another thread here on the forum...it somehow got started about using blueberries for tear stains.
I purchased the product and I love it. It's from the Spa line, which I know they are carrying at some PetCo's now. I did get the blueberry flavor, although there was a "white" one at my PetCo. It's marketed as a "facial scrub" for dogs to help with tear staining. I like it because I can use it without any fear of hurting their eyes. 

I love all my dogs dearly, but it does just about take your breath away to see those beautiful white dogs without any staining at all.

Beverly


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Oh Tricia, 
Yes, there is a difference between distilled, spring and bottled water.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm chiming here pretty late, but Kimberly was right at the time...no tear stains on Rufus. But very recently he has some staining on his mustache, but not the eyes. The mustache is most likely because I was offering a water dish outdoors from the hsoe rather then his usual bottled water inside. He was also getting pineappel juice on his dinner for a couple weeks so now we have some staining of the 'stache. 

His eyes don't water much at all. Sometimes he has just a little dried crust there. Shamouti's eyes ar much more goopy and it has a red tinge. I'm careful to clean them daily, but with his black coat I don't really have to worry about staining.

I'd love to figure out a way to get rid of the staining on Rufus' mouth. I've tried a little lemon juice to bleach it, but Rufus just licks it off!


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

good buddy said:


> I'd love to figure out a way to get rid of the staining on Rufus' mouth. I've tried a little lemon juice to bleach it, but Rufus just licks it off!


Christy, PM me if you want some ideas. I think I tried just about everything under the sun with Lincoln when his muzzle started staining at 10 mos. 
Some things I tried: switching to water bottles, using whitening shampoos, peroxide mixes, denture cleaner, Eye Envy, eliminating all food/treats with beet pulp and other dyes, etc. Some of the Maltese sites have more ideas.


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## moxie (Feb 6, 2008)

I am actually not sure if it is brown staining or brown hair around Moxie's mouth...how do you tell?


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Debra, what I've been able to tell is that the brown has a red-cast coloring to it usually if it's staining. I'm not sure if Moxie is a true black and white or if she's got some tan and maybe that's what's getting color. If she's white there, it's likely to be water or tear stains.


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## moxie (Feb 6, 2008)

This is a silly question I think but where does one hang a drip water bottle from?


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Sorry not sure where to hang it but Oliver wouldn't have anything to do with it as puppy or now....


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Debra, you can buy a stand or make one. PM Jane or Susan and they can send you a photo of ones that that their very talented DH's made. Also I think Kara had a neat set up using a wine bottle holder/rack - very creative.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Here's the thread with photos - really creative ideas to use. HERE


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## moxie (Feb 6, 2008)

Thank you so much Lisa. Goody, something new to shop around for Moxie!


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