# Thanks and Training Advice



## Pooch (Nov 23, 2010)

First I would like to thank so many of the experienced members on this forum for taking the time to answer questions and for sharing your words of wisdom. As a first time dog owner, the forum has been an amazing source of information for me. I have benefited from it immensely, as has Fionn.

My question today is about training. Fionn is 4 months old now. He's doing well with basic commands like sit and down, and his recall is good in the house (I haven't tested it outdoors yet and I have a way to go before doing that). His leash walking is going really well. I'm so pleased with that. Now that he has reached 4 months, I'm wondering what I should start to work on next. "Stay" is definitely on my list, as is "settle down" but I know he also needs to be stronger with sit, down, and recall when he is excited and in different environments. 

Any advice others can offer on where to turn my attention next would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Jan


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Pooch said:


> First I would like to thank so many of the experienced members on this forum for taking the time to answer questions and for sharing your words of wisdom. As a first time dog owner, the forum has been an amazing source of information for me. I have benefited from it immensely, as has Fionn.
> 
> My question today is about training. Fionn is 4 months old now. He's doing well with basic commands like sit and down, and his recall is good in the house (I haven't tested it outdoors yet and I have a way to go before doing that). His leash walking is going really well. I'm so pleased with that. Now that he has reached 4 months, I'm wondering what I should start to work on next. "Stay" is definitely on my list, as is "settle down" but I know he also needs to be stronger with sit, down, and recall when he is excited and in different environments.
> 
> ...


First, will he follow all these commands anywhere in the house? Or do you usually train in the same area? That can be the first way to start to expand his understanding that these words mean the same thing everywhere and under all circumstances (called "proofing") Once he's reliable with these commands everywhere in your house, take him out into your yard and work on getting the same level of obedience.

Start with a 6 ft lead, then eventually progress to a "long line", which is a thin but strong piece of string attached to his collar. with this on, you can work him loose, and if he doesn't respond correctly, or starts to wander, you can just step on the string to get get hold of him again.

When he's working reliably in your yard, take the show on the road to as many places as you can think of, indoors and out. parks, parking lots, friend's yards, etc. for outdoors. Some ideas for indoors are the pet "super stores" like Petsmart and Petco, Lowes and Home Depot, the bank... anywhere else you can think of.

Also start teaching him tricks like "shake", "roll over", "dance", etc. while these may not seem "useful", ALL training you do with your dog, as long as it is done in a positive way, will just increase the bond between you and improve your relationship!


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

Fionn is adorable! Atticus is the about the same age,almost 5 months. He has sit and down and a good recall (this is still with lots of treats, not every time but often, always for recall) He now sits with out being asked at doors, the reward being the opening of the door. I'm also working on "leave it" started with toys,let go of the tug toy to get the ball, really a trade. Now he seems to know it and I can use "leave it" for other things (biting his leash, bugging the cat). I'm also working on "off" basically for jumping on people. It is a tough one as he loves to jump up and he is so little and too **** cute! He now gets "off" but stays on his hind legs and jumps around, too funny. I almost hate to ask him to sit which is how I want him to be when petted ,especially by strangers. I have lots of elderly neighbors.
And yes tricks tricks tricks so fun, I can't wait to do more, I use lots of treats so have to be careful not to feed too much. It would be great if he would "work" for his kibble but no way, won't touch it.It sounds like Fionn is doing great keep us posted!!!ENJOY


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## Pooch (Nov 23, 2010)

Finally getting back to this post...I've been busy getting ready for vacation but I've just started and will be off for 2 weeks so I plan to do lots of training with Fionn. He's doing pretty well indoors, in different settings, but he now knows the sound of the ziploc bag that I keep his treats in so if he hears me open it he will run and sit in front of me with this very "aren't I a good boy" look before I even call his name! A bit frustrating (and my fault, I know) but it does make me laugh... 

Makes me wonder, should his reward sometimes be petting or should I stick with using food treats? I only give him little bits - I buy the Zukes mini treats and break them into 4 pieces so they are small. He loves them.

His leash walking is really coming along. We can go for 20 plus minutes now and he trots along as happy as can be. He LOVES people so he gets quite excited when he sees a neighbour but they all love him too - he's like a celebrity around here!! He doesn't jump too much but he pulls on the leash and runs toward them. I stop in my tracks until he sits and the leash is loose before we move again. It's not always easy, or possible, but I'm working on it.

Housetraining is also going really well. He goes to the door and lets me know when he has to go.

I can also leave him for 3 1/2 to 4 hrs in his expen without any problems. No SA at all, thankfully. I really worked on that one from day one.

Thanks for your suggestions on outdoor recall training, Karen. My plan for the next two weeks is to take the training outdoors - on my deck and in my backyard. And yes, I'll have to start teaching him some tricks!! Wish me luck!!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

I was hoping someone would answer you about the treats or just praise when training. I personally like to see both.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I've tried to reply to this twice (this is my 3rd time) and have lost my reply each time!

Use training treats consistently for new behaviors, (the harder the behavior, the more high-value the motivator should be) and for more established behaviors, start slowing down on the treats, using more praise, with just intermittent reinforcement with treats. 
Don't forget that a "learned" behavior in a new setting should be initially treated as a new behavior to help the dog generalize.

As far as him having learned the sound of the bag, you don't really want to reinforce that. I tend to keep a supply of small, non-messy, non-smelly, low value treats in my pocket at all times, just for incidental training throughout the day, and to reinforce behaviors that "just happen" that I'd like to solidify. They are always in my pocket, so Kodi pretty much ignores the fact that I have them, and there is no "sound" to cue off of. I tend to use Charlee Bears, which are low calorie, crunchy, cracker type snacks for this. (most dogs really like them... I'm not sure why!<g>) The other ones I like are Cloud Star Buddy Biscuits. These might be even better for a small puppy, since they are thin enough that they can be easily broken into really tiny pieces.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> I was hoping someone would answer you about the treats or just praise when training. I personally like to see both.


The agility trainer I used said there are 4 types of rewards.

Food
Touch
Voice
Toys

Food is usually on the top. Touch is a very close second. Voice is good as long as you don't go sappy with babytalk. (I think he said that because it is annoying to the rest of us humans. ound I never got the hang of using toys. My dogs gave me the headtilt when I tried. However, I have seen it work well with Labs and terriers. (A Lab seems always happy to have a ball.)


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

morriscsps said:


> The agility trainer I used said there are 4 types of rewards.
> 
> Food
> Touch
> ...


Thanks, I know I have one who likes toys..but the other just gives me the head tilt also...food is her big thing, although she does not like to be spoken to in an angry voice, so she probably would go for the voice praise...thanks I personally don't like to see a dog have to have a treat each time they do something...you like to think they enjoy the companionship also...lol.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

My old Border Collie couldn't do the food rewards. He would get so excited about the food that his two braincells would collide and knock each other out. His main rewards were touch and voice with food only on new tricks. He loved being petted and praised. The jackpot touch reward was if I let him put his upper body in my lap and hugged me. sniffle... I miss my big doggie hugs.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Thanks, I know I have one who likes toys..but the other just gives me the head tilt also...food is her big thing, although she does not like to be spoken to in an angry voice, so she probably would go for the voice praise...thanks I personally don't like to see a dog have to have a treat each time they do something...you like to think they enjoy the companionship also...lol.


Hi Flynn, I don't think a dog should expect a reward (other than an "atta boy") for basic good behavior once it is learned and well established. For instance, Kodi doesn't get a treat for backing off and waiting when I say "Wait!" and go through a door without him, or when I tell him, "OK, that's enough!" when he barks because there is someone at the door. He knows these are expected behaviors, and a "Good boy" should be all the reward he needs... Like saying thank you when one of my kids does what I ask in the house.

It's different if you are training advanced behaviors, though, or even training NEW behaviors with a puppy. (or an older rescue who hasn't learned basic commands...they will probably require even MORE reinforcement than a puppy). In these cases, you are asking the dog to work extra hard to figure something out, and it pays huge dividends to keep their enthusiasm high. When a behavior is REALLY internalized it is time to start using variable reinforcement, but even then, I wouldn't COMPLETELY stop if you are asking for hard stuff often.

How would you feel if someone was asking you to work your hardest for just an "Atta girl"? You'd probably feel like, "Well, that's nice, but a pay check would be nice too". Dogs like pay checks too.


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