# Help



## Queenie Nainaar (Mar 9, 2020)

Since last night, Chester has diarrhea and I am very concerned. Last week he had 3 injections by the vet, namely; Bordetella Vaccine, DHPPV with Leptospirosis and Rabies Vaccine. He looked okay thereafter for a while. My son and daughter in law with their two French Bulldogs came to visit on the same afternoon to celebrate one of their dogs birthday and Chester was very actively playing with them in our back garden which caused some pain that resulted in him panting in the evening and my daughter and husband rushed him to Emergency. The ER vet gave him Metacam injection to take orally for 5 days and Friday was his last injection taken. In addition, I need to note that also we had to change his food. Since I brought him home from breeder in Seattle I carried on with Bil Jacs Puppy food that is made of chicken and yams. Unfortunately PetSmart in Canada do not carry Bil Jacs and could not find a company online either in Canada that carries Bil Jacs or ships from USA to Canada. Also as we all know, due to the current restrictions with Covit19 I am unable to cross the border. In the interim, I purchased Wellness Complete Puppy food from PetSmart as a substitute. I gradually introduced him by giving him 3/4 Bill Jacs and 1/4 Wellness. Unfortunately the Bill Jacs finished so now giving him fully Wellness. I don't know if it is the food or other issues. He will be going to the vet sometimes today, but need to ask if it is determined that it is the food, what food hopefully also available in Canada is recommended for puppies Thank you in advance for advice.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

I SUSPECT the culprit is the new diet. You didn't say when you first introduced the Wellness and when you ran out of BilJacs. I SUSPECT the Wellness has been introduced to his diet at too rapid a pace. Anyway I would discuss the change in diet with the Vet when you visit today.

Ricky's Popi


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## Queenie Nainaar (Mar 9, 2020)

Thanks I introduced him to gradual Wellness about two weeks ago and ran out of Bil Jacs about 3 days ago. I am hoping it is his diet and not something else as I can look for an alternate food even though it can be a task!!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I’m glad he’s going back to the vet. What terrible timing to be dealing with this, for both of you! 

It it turns out to be food related, I wish there was a way to get you one more bag of the old food so you could continue to increase the new food slowly from the 1/4. Are there food restrictions that would make it impossible for a person you know to ship you one more bag since you can’t order it? 

My Havanese has a really sensitive stomach, more so as a puppy, so I had to change foods really slowly. I actually mixed the new and old food like you did but the ratio was something like 1:8 scoops in a food storage bag, which is about a week’s worth of food. Then when the bag ran out, each time I adjusted it by 1 scoop of the new food, as long as there weren’t any signs of soft poop. If his poop just wasn’t as firm, I would keep the same ratio, but if it was soft I would back off the new food a little more until it cleared and then increase slowly again. I know there are things you can add to the food to help, especially since you’re in a bind, so maybe the vet can give you some suggestions if that’s the problem. There’s also a medication that the vet gave us that helped with diarrhea. 

Did he have any issues with 1/4 of the new food? 

Mine also had diarrhea after shots as a puppy, but it started 1-2 days afterwards, not after a week. The problem with diarrhea is it can sometimes exacerbate itself. Mine would get diarrhea from too much of a new treat and then a few days later his anal glands would be backed up because his poop was too soft to express themselves. The good news is he grew out of most of this, and he isn’t as sensitive to changes as he used to be.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I meant to also ask, is the protein and formulation similar to the old food? I had more trouble switching proteins, but I just had to back off a bit. That’s probably when I figured out the 1:8 ratio was a better starting point for my puppy. Also, I know grain free makes people nervous, but mine did terribly off of grain free. It’s the only time we “failed” a food change. I’m not suggesting switching to grain or grain free, just keeping it the same as the old food for now.


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## Queenie Nainaar (Mar 9, 2020)

Thanks. From what I know we dont have food restrictions especially pet dry food as pet stores are rated as essential services. I am going to try to see if someone can ship it to me from the States...but don't know how long it will take. Can you tell me at his age (next week he will be 4 months old) how much a puppy of his age should have. I also have a feeling I may be giving him too much!!. Thanks for your help.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Queenie Nainaar said:


> Since last night, Chester has diarrhea and I am very concerned. Last week he had 3 injections by the vet, namely; Bordetella Vaccine, DHPPV with Leptospirosis and Rabies Vaccine. He looked okay thereafter for a while. My son and daughter in law with their two French Bulldogs came to visit on the same afternoon to celebrate one of their dogs birthday and Chester was very actively playing with them in our back garden which caused some pain that resulted in him panting in the evening and my daughter and husband rushed him to Emergency. The ER vet gave him Metacam injection to take orally for 5 days and Friday was his last injection taken. In addition, I need to note that also we had to change his food. Since I brought him home from breeder in Seattle I carried on with Bil Jacs Puppy food that is made of chicken and yams. Unfortunately PetSmart in Canada do not carry Bil Jacs and could not find a company online either in Canada that carries Bil Jacs or ships from USA to Canada. Also as we all know, due to the current restrictions with Covit19 I am unable to cross the border. In the interim, I purchased Wellness Complete Puppy food from PetSmart as a substitute. I gradually introduced him by giving him 3/4 Bill Jacs and 1/4 Wellness. Unfortunately the Bill Jacs finished so now giving him fully Wellness. I don't know if it is the food or other issues. He will be going to the vet sometimes today, but need to ask if it is determined that it is the food, what food hopefully also available in Canada is recommended for puppies Thank you in advance for advice.


First of all I would fire your vet and find someone else. Any vet that would give all those vaccines at the same time should NOT be practicing. Especially combining rabies with lepto either of which can be especially problematic is blasphemy. Please do your dog a favor and find a vet who is enlightened about the potential dangers of vaccines and how to minimize risk.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Queenie Nainaar said:


> Thanks. From what I know we dont have food restrictions especially pet dry food as pet stores are rated as essential services. I am going to try to see if someone can ship it to me from the States...but don't know how long it will take. Can you tell me at his age (next week he will be 4 months old) how much a puppy of his age should have. I also have a feeling I may be giving him too much!!. Thanks for your help.


I think at that age mine was able to have 3/4 cup of kibble per day. She never ate that much but that was the amount my breeder suggested.


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## Queenie Nainaar (Mar 9, 2020)

Yes, I omitted that I did 'fire' the vet and engaged a new one. The ER vet also eluded to what you said, being the vet should not have given all 3 injections to Chester at the same time. 
Hence we will not be going to this vet again, even though Eagle Animal Hospital in Port Moody is said to be a very reputable veterinary in the area, but sadly the dad who was the original owner retired and now the practice has taken over by his inexperienced son!


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

Don't forget even if you have an amazing vet that you can advocate for your dog 
I love my vet and still advocate for my dog. She would prefer to just vaccinate, but I told her we'll do titres and go from there. That when vaccinations are given, they will be spaced etc etc. I trust her opinion, but I also will advocate when necessary.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Queenie Nainaar said:


> Yes, I omitted that I did 'fire' the vet and engaged a new one. The ER vet also eluded to what you said, being the vet should not have given all 3 injections to Chester at the same time.
> Hence we will not be going to this vet again, even though Eagle Animal Hospital in Port Moody is said to be a very reputable veterinary in the area, but sadly the dad who was the original owner retired and now the practice has taken over by his inexperienced son!


I am so glad to hear this! My Mia had a horrible reaction to the rabies vaccine but luckily the vet did not give it along with anything else. Otherwise, my baby may not be here. Plus I know for sure which vaccine was the issue. I wish you the best in figuring out the problem and getting Chester back on track.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Wulfin said:


> Don't forget even if you have an amazing vet that you can advocate for your dog
> I love my vet and still advocate for my dog. She would prefer to just vaccinate, but I told her we'll do titres and go from there. That when vaccinations are given, they will be spaced etc etc. I trust her opinion, but I also will advocate when necessary.


I agree that we need to be advocates for our pets. However, some people look to their vet for advice. I think by now all vets should be on board with doing titers but many are not and some still vaccinate every year when the guidelines were changed to every 3 many years ago.


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## hbmama (Oct 24, 2019)

Our breeder said that Havanese do not do well with the Lepto vaccine and to avoid it at all costs. I spoke with my vet who agreed that many toy breeds have an averse reaction to it. He also agreed with my breeder that we should put off the rabies vaccine until after our girl is a fully mature adult. Hopefully your baby is recovering and feeling better soon.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

hbmama said:


> Our breeder said that Havanese do not do well with the Lepto vaccine and to avoid it at all costs. I spoke with my vet who agreed that many toy breeds have an averse reaction to it. He also agreed with my breeder that we should put off the rabies vaccine until after our girl is a fully mature adult. Hopefully your baby is recovering and feeling better soon.


I like your vet. Encouraging to hear this.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Molly120213 said:


> I think at that age mine was able to have 3/4 cup of kibble per day. She never ate that much but that was the amount my breeder suggested.


That seems like a lot for Molly's size at that age. I understood you to say on the meetup yesterday that Molly is an adult and weighs around 8 lbs. Ricky is a 6 y.o. male and weighs 15 pounds. His weight has been stable for the last 4 years. I like his weight and so does his Vet. He gets 1/2 c. dehydrated mix per day (Honest Kitchen), 1/4 c. kibble (with grain), and 1/3 c. training treats, fruits, and vegetables. So a bit more than 1 c. per day and he eats it all with gusto. Sometime I will have to add up how many calories that is per day.

Ricky was around 10/11 pounds at 1 y.o. As I recall(memory is fuzzy), he was getting 2/3 c./day total at that age. His breeder sent home Royal Canin kibble with us. But members of this group convinced me that was not a good choice for him for various reasons. We gradually transitioned to Honest Kitchen over 2+ weeks with no gastrointestinal problems. We, and Ricky have been happy ever since.

Ricky's Popi


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> That seems like a lot for Molly's size at that age. I understood you to say on the meetup yesterday that Molly is an adult and weighs around 8 lbs. Ricky is a 6 y.o. male and weighs 15 pounds. His weight has been stable for the last 4 years. I like his weight and so does his Vet. He gets 1/2 c. dehydrated mix per day (Honest Kitchen), 1/4 c. kibble (with grain), and 1/3 c. training treats, fruits, and vegetables. So a bit more than 1 c. per day and he eats it all with gusto. Sometime I will have to add up how many calories that is per day.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Molly was probably about 4 lbs. at four months and the breeder said she could have that much but she probably only ate about half that amount. Now she gets 1/2 cup of kibble and 1/8 cup dehydrated raw lamb per day. She sometimes only eats half of the kibble. She has never been a big eater.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hbmama said:


> Our breeder said that Havanese do not do well with the Lepto vaccine and to avoid it at all costs. I spoke with my vet who agreed that many toy breeds have an averse reaction to it. He also agreed with my breeder that we should put off the rabies vaccine until after our girl is a fully mature adult. Hopefully your baby is recovering and feeling better soon.


waiting for full maturity for rabies vaccination is not recommended by minimal vac. advocates or legal in most states.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Just wanted to let you know that we're sorry to hear that Chester has been sick. Hope he feels better soon!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I hope you were able to get some good intervention from the new vet and he’s feeling better soon!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm really sorry to hear Chester isn't feeling well. Hope your little one is feeling better soon.


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## Queenie Nainaar (Mar 9, 2020)

Thanks! Much appreciated. I think I am feeding too much!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

I just saw this thread. Let us know how things are going.


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## Queenie Nainaar (Mar 9, 2020)

Thanks Jackie. I called the ER vet yesterday and he advised to wait for next few days, monitor his condition and if Chester is experiencing the same problem then I should bring him back for a checkup. I wanted a second opinion and hence I followed up with a new vet and she believes either it food-related or he may have worms. As a process of elimination, she suggested we give him a GI puppy food to determine if it is the food, if it stays the same or worsens then we should bring him again by next week to conduct a further investigation. Starting at breakfast today he is on the GI puppy food. His stool is soft as oppose to watery. So that's a relief.


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## Queenie Nainaar (Mar 9, 2020)

Thank you everyone for your many messages of advice, concern and good wishes. Chester and I are ever grateful your knowledge sharing, warmth and care received. I will keep all posted on his progress.


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## HavFancier (Jan 25, 2020)

> First of all I would fire your vet and find someone else. Any vet that would give all those vaccines at the same time should NOT be practicing. Especially combining rabies with lepto either of which can be especially problematic is blasphemy. Please do your dog a favor and find a vet who is enlightened about the potential dangers of vaccines and how to minimize risk.


Was going to say. I'm not a vet, but my vet broke up the shots so that she wasn't getting more than two at a time.

Your poor little baby. I hope his digestive issues clear up soon.


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## mabel (Dec 31, 2019)

A lot of breeders dont recommend giving lepto vaccine i don't know about bordatella .abunch of breeders also rec givIng The thuja pill after vaccines and sulpur since the vaccines are so hard on the dogs and only giving half the dose of vaccine of DDAP: Call ur breeder right away before wasting another vet bill See what protocol they recommended for vaccines.


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## mabel (Dec 31, 2019)

I give my own half doses of DAPP vaccination and then thuja x 7days then Sulphur x7 days. Don't know what Vacs are recommended in Canada


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Hoping Chester is feeling better Queenie. Scout's breeder recommended Fromm's Puppy Gold. Scout and Truffles both did well without any tummy upsets on Fromm. I had to order it because it is Canadian. 
I still have the breeders instructions. She recommended 1/4-1/3 cup of kibble 3x day and adjust as puppy grows. An adult will likely eat 1/2-2C daily. Don't leave access to food throughout the day. Hope this helps. &#128522;


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## Queenie Nainaar (Mar 9, 2020)

Thanks Heather, greatly appreciate your advise and concern. Will be following up with an update on Chester's progress


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## Queenie Nainaar (Mar 9, 2020)

An update on Chester's progress. The vet prescribed Royal Canin GI puppy food. Since March 30th he started on it, initially he still had soft stools but I think it was due to his system adjusting. Glad to say that since yesterday his stool is back to normal and he is back to his normal mischievous self. As Heather mentioned, I will be looking at Fromms or Natures Variety Instinct Raw Boost Puppy food which both are available in Canada thank goodness, once he is done with Royal Canin GI puppy food which is quite expensive admittedly, unless his pet insurance will pay for it on a long term!, Don't know of the long term effects of the GI food, any advise will be welcome. In addition, I was so keen on registering him in a puppy training school but as we know with the current covit19 situation it is not possible. The one concern I have is that when he goes out to potty in the garden or when he is taken for a walk, he does not want to come in and growls sometimes, just sits and watch the world go by!! watching people, cars and other dogs, no cares in the world and no consideration that I have chores to do or have my own life!, very stubborn which as I understand it is one of the Havanese common traits, but sure there is some sort of training that I am not doing right. Any advise will be welcome. From Chester and I, we wish to thank everyone for your love and good wishes and importantly advise given. Take care everyone, stay safe and love to you and your families.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm so glad Chester is doing well. Can't help with the training issues! I need help with that myself! Willow is mostly a good dog without training but she can have her moments!


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## Queenie Nainaar (Mar 9, 2020)

Thanks Jackie, appreciate. Similar, Chester overall is not so bad, good with telling us he needs to pea or potty, getting good with bell training and quick to learn. But obviously its the issue I expressed prviously and the separation anxiety with my daughter especially as he sleeps in his crate in her room. My one concern is I like travelling and do go away at least 4 times a year with my hubby out of country, obviously it is not going happen for a while! but hopefully when it gets back to normal, I wish to be a snowbird and go away at least for 3 months. I suppose the solution will be to take him along or leave him with my daughter or son, but feel bad as they have their own life. Look at it as pay back time!!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I fed Fromm for a while and it was an easy transition. His sensitive stomach did well on it. I eventually switched to something else, but I do think it’s a good option. He did pick out the old food around the Fromm for a while though.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I also added about a tablespoon of Wellness Puppy canned food to the FROMM.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Glad to hear things are looking up. As far as not wanting to go with you when out and about, here's a kikopup video for you. Notice that she says you should try in your house, then your yard, then, finally, out and about.






Kikopup videos are AMAZING!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

The video makes it seem so easy!


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## Queenie Nainaar (Mar 9, 2020)

A further update to Chester's progress. Early last week he got tired of the GI food and stopped eating, so I transitioned him to Fromm Chicken Flavour, not successfull, moved him to Fromm Grain free Pork, I think it was Beef flavour, still unsuccessful as he did not want to eat. Subsequently, transition over to Natural Nutrition for Puppies Instinct Rawboost Grain free Chicken for the past 4/5 days and he really loves it! So third time lucky.


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