# New Adventures...But for Whom??



## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

So we introduced Sofie to the entire family room yesterday (instead of just the sofa). So far so good. Today she discovered the underside of the lounge chairs (like lazy boys). She crawled beneath them both. The carpet beneath each was recently vacuum so there was nothing there, except some dust bunnies. Next she discovered the stones in the gas fireplace. BIG problem. Plan A to keep her away did not work. Plan B did not work. The last plan was to block the fireplace. Success!! Not very attractive, but at least she is safe! She is very determined and distraction does not work with her. She thinks it *all* is a game. Oh she quickly gave up the stones for a piece of cheese. No wonder she kept going back. Smart pup indeed!! Outwits us every time. How do you handle a curious and determined pup who does not buy into redirecting! Nothing to give positive reinforcement for... We try not to to use "no" too much, but she is 17 weeks and going through the bratty phase and I catch myself on occasion using it and my less then patient husband uses it more!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

swaye said:


> So we introduced Sofie to the entire family room yesterday (instead of just the sofa). So far so good. Today she discovered the underside of the lounge chairs (like lazy boys). She crawled beneath them both. The carpet beneath each was recently vacuum so there was nothing there, except some dust bunnies. Next she discovered the stones in the gas fireplace. BIG problem. Plan A to keep her away did not work. Plan B did not work. The last plan was to block the fireplace. Success!! Not very attractive, but at least she is safe! She is very determined and distraction does not work with her. She thinks it *all* is a game. Oh she quickly gave up the stones for a piece of cheese. No wonder she kept going back. Smart pup indeed!! Outwits us every time. How do you handle a curious and determined pup who does not buy into redirecting! Nothing to give positive reinforcement for... We try not to to use "no" too much, but she is 17 weeks and going through the bratty phase and I catch myself on occasion using it and my less then patient husband uses it more!


Welcome to the "smart puppy club". Really, the best thing to do in this type of situation is to manage the environment, which means limiting access. We had 3 ex-pens that we moved from place to place to keep Kodi out of trouble as a puppy. For instance, for a while, Kodi was TERRIBLE about ripping the spines off the books in our floor to ceiling book case. No amount of redirection would keep him away. He was fixated with it. So we just blocked it off with an ex-pen when he was in the room. Our Christmas tree was also in an ex-pen for the first two years!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

krandall said:


> Welcome to the "smart puppy club". Really, the best thing to do in this type of situation is to manage the environment, which means limiting access. We had 3 ex-pens that we moved from place to place to keep Kodi out of trouble as a puppy. For instance, for a while, Kodi was TERRIBLE about ripping the spines off the books in our floor to ceiling book case. No amount of redirection would keep him away. He was fixated with it. So we just blocked it off with an ex-pen when he was in the room. Our Christmas tree was also in an ex-pen for the first two years! [
> 
> That is the correct descriptive term; fixated! &#128563; Goodness, I hadn't e e. fought about the Christmas tree. Unfortunately, we do not have enough room for an expen.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

swaye said:


> krandall said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome to the "smart puppy club". Really, the best thing to do in this type of situation is to manage the environment, which means limiting access. We had 3 ex-pens that we moved from place to place to keep Kodi out of trouble as a puppy. For instance, for a while, Kodi was TERRIBLE about ripping the spines off the books in our floor to ceiling book case. No amount of redirection would keep him away. He was fixated with it. So we just blocked it off with an ex-pen when he was in the room. Our Christmas tree was also in an ex-pen for the first two years! [
> ...


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## m0rg4n (Feb 8, 2013)

krandall said:


> swaye said:
> 
> 
> > You can just use the ex-pen as a moveable gate, making it as large or as small as necessary to protect whatever needs protecting. It does not need to be strung out to full length. The metal ones fold up very small, and extend a LONG way if needed. You can easily just stretch it around the front of the gas stove and keep the rest folded up on one end.
> ...


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Yep, I agree with Karen. I still have gates up at our house to keep Timmy out of certain areas and he's 1 1/2. I mostly gate off because of the cat's space and their kitty litter. I don't know if I'll ever take them down.


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## Lila (Apr 9, 2013)

I guess I'm bad then. Sounds like you all don't use "No No" much. I do. I use tons of positive reinforcement also - way more than No but I do use the "No No". Mikey knows what it means for sure because I say it loud enough to get his attention - especially if it's a danger to him. Of course, after saying all that, I do use the X-pen too  sometimes you can say NO to much. But I do use it often. He knows I love him.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

krandall said:


> swaye said:
> 
> 
> > You can just use the ex-pen as a moveable gate, making it as large or as small as necessary to protect whatever needs protecting. It does not need to be strung out to full length. The metal ones fold up very small, and extend a LONG way if needed. You can easily just stretch it around the front of the gas stove and keep the rest folded up on one end.
> ...


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Lila said:


> I guess I'm bad then. Sounds like you all don't use "No No" much. I do. I use tons of positive reinforcement also - way more than No but I do use the "No No". Mikey knows what it means for sure because I say it loud enough to get his attention - especially if it's a danger to him. Of course, after saying all that, I do use the X-pen too  sometimes you can say NO to much. But I do use it often. He knows I love him.


Oh, I didn't mean to sound critical of anyone who uses NO. I do think at times it is the only option. I do use it, but I think, after awhile they, like kids, tune out to that word. At 17 weeks, we have along way to go and I am sure she will hear it much more.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lila said:


> I guess I'm bad then. Sounds like you all don't use "No No" much. I do. I use tons of positive reinforcement also - way more than No but I do use the "No No". Mikey knows what it means for sure because I say it loud enough to get his attention - especially if it's a danger to him. Of course, after saying all that, I do use the X-pen too  sometimes you can say NO to much. But I do use it often. He knows I love him.


MOST of the time people use "no" too much. A dog can't POSSIBLY know for sure what you are saying "no" to, especially when, with a puppy, it's likely to be something new you have to stop them getting into every 5 minutes. It is much more effective to teach a replacement behavior in the case of something you really want a dog to learn to stop doing. But in the case of a puppy, it is completely natural for them to explore their environment , and it is up to us to make sure that environment is safe for them. Eventually, this dangerous exploratory behavior wanes, whether you spend your life saying "no, no" (with little learning going on) or not. And... "no, no" doesn't help at ALL unless you have your eyes on the puppy. Because, at best, that's all they learn... "Don't do xxx when Mom is in the room!"

When it is safe and possible, mild aversives as a natural consequence can be the absolute BEST way to stop dangerous behavior. Bitter Apple works this way for some puppies... In Kodi's case, he couldn't have cared less. But we found that REALLY HOT hot sauce got his attention quite nicely. One experiment with it, and he TOTALLY left anything alone that had a dab of hot sauce on it. 

Just as with babies, there is a period of time when you just have to protect THEM from dangers in the environment. They grow up fast, so it's not a long-term problem for the most part. OTOH, you ALWAYS have to scan the environment for some dangers. There are precious few adult dogs who will walk away from a box of chocolates left at nose height on the coffee table, regardless of how many times someone has said "no, no" to them in the past... And that box of chocolates could have deadly consequences.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

swaye said:


> krandall said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you! Thank you! And this is what I love about this site! I have seen the ex-pens set up, but never thought that could be used any other way!!:doh:
> ...


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## Lila (Apr 9, 2013)

Well said Karen 

And Sofie's mom - I didn't know you could use the x-pen that way for a long time :der:
I think I had it for a couple of years before I realized it could be used for a gate. So don't feel bad, you've only had it a few months


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm sure when Brody was a pup he thought his name was "no/leave it/stop/drop it".


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