# My reasons for being a member of this forum



## LuvCicero

One reason is that I have been blessed with a lot of info and ideas that have helped me learn about this wonderful breed and helped me to understand ways to deal with Cicero and make him into a valuable member of my home. I feel that I should 'pay forward' at this time to point new owners to info and give the encouragement that I received over the past two years. I have also been blessed with prayers and support during non-Hav issues that have been heartbreaking in my family. I have thoroughly enjoyed meeting online friends and getting to know a little about them and their furbabies and seeing their cute pictures. This forum has been a great - addictive - site to share our love for Cicero! 

Another reason I'm still here is to fight for this loving breed and voice my opinions. I had a week that I flipped flopped and didn't know which direction to go. It was a sad and emotional week for me. I had to step back and think. I thought about what I have tried to teach my children and my grandsons (and they remind me at times!). I have always told them to stand up for what they believe in - not to jump ship - and that you can't run away from problems but have to stand firm and fight. They are in sports and I've told them that no matter how hard, tired, unhappy they get ~ they can't quit after they sign up because it takes a team to win the game. I've told them not to give in to peer pressure and to make the world a better place in any small way they can. My family can't take on the world but we can fight against things we feel are wrong in small ways. So in staying on this forum, I hope to educate others in what to look for in buying a puppy and voice my opinion on what I feel is good or bad. I feel like each area of the country, each group, each club, each person should ask themselves what they are doing to help a problem. I applaud people that will stand firm and fight to try to get the word out that puppy mills and pet stores are to be avoided. I think this forum will work toward that goal. So I have decided not to toss my computer or my TV in the trash because I don't agree with everything on them. I fully believe that education is the key and that I need to be where the people are that need information.....and they are not in my living room. Therefore, I'm dusting off my PC and all of you will be hearing from me at times!!

Another reason.....did I say I love chatting with online friends and seeing their cute doggie pictures!! I have noticed there are a lot of guests that are visiting and I would like to invite you to register and become part of this group. I would love to meet you and hear about your Hav!!! arty:


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## Velma

I'm a fairly new member and have read of the storms that have passed through here lately...not all of them, as they were rather disappointing, but I am aware of them.

So, I applaud :clap2: your decision and your desire to stick around! I feel the same way! I look forward to reading about your advice, your life with Cicero and your comments.

Banjo is my first Hav and I am always lurking on the site looking for tips and advice of which I have found much valuable information and, of course, threads that make me smile, laugh and glad that I made the decision to bring a Hav into my world!!

You go girl!!


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## pjewel

Oh Dale, you went and did it. Brought tears to my eyes yet again. Beautifully said. I think it's sad that some of the new people to our wonderful home came in at a time that was unprecedented during my tenure here (since April 2007). We have indeed laughed together, worried together, cried for each other and loved each other and all our pets, hav and hav nots. 

Many, many years ago when I decided to become a volunteer at a hospital, at orientation they taught us "first do no harm." That applies to everything in our worlds. Thank you for your beautiful words and the sentiment behind them. They mean more than you know. :grouphug:


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## Thumper

Dale, that is so touching and beautiful :kiss:

my turn?

It's simple, really. This forum and Gucci saved my life. 2006 was a horrendously awful year for me, I was diagnosed with some rare auto-immune disorders, painful ones at that and I was in a really dark and sad place and used to cry and sleep.. and feeling sorry for myself and riddled with pain and anger at the un-fairness of it all, and somewhere in that haze...I thought that if I was going to be alone and 'home and sick all the time' and wasting away, I decided to get a dog to keep me company and get me focusing on something else than my illnesses and with that decision, one of the best ones in my life...not only did I have a wonderful little fluffy girl that pulled me out of depression and actually helped my health problems improve, I ended up with some great friends who I will have for life, many on this forum and I've made friends with other local hav owners that don't really do the forum thing, (even though I tell them how cool it is ) So that is the very condensed story of why I am a member here, not to mention, I needed some help with puppy rearing and I couldn't have done it without this forum :kiss:

As for the health problems, the lupus, and the other rare ones, I still Have them but I am doing better and the medication is tweaked well enough where I can function most days normally, and the days that I am in bed and feeling rotten..I have her by my side snuggled up sleeping the day away with me and its amazing her loyalty and how the companionship has benefitted me in such a positive way.

~~Kara


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## LuvCicero

Velma, Isn't a Hav just the best little friend you can have? I think you will find info here and get answers to anything you need....even Thanksgiving dinner.  Storms are a part of life and it's how we handle them that matter. Time to bring on the sunshine!!!!!!!

Geri, You know that people on this forum has been a great support to me in many ways - which includes you. It has given me a place to go when life gets tough and I need a smile. I feel like I have to practice what I preach to my family. My grandson reminded me that their new football solgan was "ALL IN".....and I am. Cicero and I are looking for brighter days!!!!


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## LuvCicero

Kara, it is amazing how these little Neezers know when we need them to cuddle near and give us a gentle lick. The look in their eyes tell us they hope we feel better soon. We can all learn lessons from our furbabies. Cicero has never snapped at me and no matter what he comes running to wash my face. lol
I hope you continue to do well and take care of yourself.


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## Kathie

Dale, thank you so much for starting such a simple but profound thread. It is so gratifying to know that we have such a supportive group of members here who are always there for us when we're down or just need some advice.

This forum has not only given me priceless info on how to raise my neezer but also kept me entertained through two surgery recoveries! It has always (mostly!) been a happy place to be. There might be differences occasionally but one thing that stays true - we all passionately love our furkids!!!


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## Luciledodd

Aside from the obvious all that has been said about our havs and how to do for them, the thing that sticks in my mind was when my sister died this past winter. I have no family in Paris where I live and went to MS for her funeral. I didn't know anyone there either. No cards of condolence for me, etc. But when I got back I think nearly all the regulars had posted words of comfort just for me. It was so touching for people I only knew through this forum to care. I will never forget and it still brings tears to my eyes.


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## LuvCicero

Kathie, I know what you mean. Living in an empty nest use to be boring but with this forum there are friends only a keystroke away to connect with. Of course if I get on at bedtime...oops...less sleep!!

Lucile, I know exactly how you feel. The support here is worth gold. When my SIL passed away with cancer, I was so touched by the messages. Many people had helped me walk that journey and I have felt so blessed to be a part of this forum. To know that thoughts and prayers are being said...makes a heart lighter.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

eace::grouphug::grouphug:Well, first of all Dale, thank you for your post, it needed to be said and you did a great job of it! Geri (we were on another list then) introduced me to this list, and I was just trying to decide upon a Hav or Lowchen, the Lowchen appeared first and I was never sorry, but crept out of the list. From time to time I would complain to Geri about things and she would always tell me how wonderful the Hav people were. She told me about the rescue quilts, her squares, and about how there was not real fighting and disagreement going on and people really cared. I would come on and take a look around but I did not have a Hav, so I did not really join in. Then my Lowchen died at 2 years of age and I was crushed, I went to Geri again and she urged me to take my time but to join in the HForum and so I did. I actually had not seen a Havanese but somehow met Ann on the forum she lived not far away from me and I was told about Dale, she came to my area for weekends sometimes and I might get a chance to actually see the little breed that interested me. Ann so graciously invited me to a play date and I was so very excited, but my Mother fell and broke her hip, so I did not get to go. Dale told me she would call me when she got into town and I made a date to go and see my first honest to goodness Havanese. Cicero did not disappoint me. I pulled up and Dale was outside with this gorgeous little fellow who was so willing to kiss away my tears. He was bouncing and his coat was beautiful, but it was the eyes. His face looked so much like a Lowchen and my heart melted. No I still don't have a Havanese. I did go over to a shelter to see one who was supposed to be a Hav/shih tzu mix...and of course I brought him home...but I want a playmate for him, so who knows! During the adoption process Amanda, Sharlene, Ann, Dale and Kathy talked to me non stop and helped so much. I am giving the benefit of the doubt to Youngster, that is all I will say on the matter, except there have been too many hurt feelings and I hope this is the beginning of healing. Hugs to all no matter where you post or visit! And to end this, I must say I love the name Banjo!!!! Welcome.


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## Sheri

Dale, you have such a good heart! What a warm post, that says so much that is good to read and agree with. I hate that so many have left and some have stayed, but apparently with hurt on both sides. (I don't know details, but I hate anyone to be unkind or to be hurt by unkindness, whichever direction it traveled.) 

This Forum has been a big help to me, and a wonderful place to come when I've had questions, or just been lonely and needed some Hav fellowship. It had been "home" for quite some time, and I will stick and hope it returns to that and that the new ownership hasn't just blown us some lines. 

And, it's easier to navigate! Ha! A good thing for us computer challenged folks! :biggrin1:

Big hugs to all my Forum Family!! :grouphug:


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## SMARTY

Dale you said that very well. I agree you do not change things by leaving them you stay and work out the problems. I want to remain a member with so many new people coming on and the old friends still here. There have been situations that I do not agree with at all. Optimistically the opinions of the membership have been a learning experience for the new owners as well

The HF members have been a fierce group supporting the closing of puppy mills and pet shop dog sales, plus the banning of their ads. I've had several friends log on to this site and they have not seen any ads other than what we see. We all have faith that the new owners will do the right thing and have no dog sale ads for anyone to see on this Forum and in doing so hopefully this Forum will light the way for all dog sale ads removed from the owners other sites.

The Havanese Forum has been a place of sharing happy, loving, difficult and sometimes sad times. It has been a great source of information and I trust it continues in a way that is a credit to its' designer and the many Havanese owners and lovers of this wonderful breed who have contributed so much to this Forum's success in the past.


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## MopTop Havanese

I didn't jump ship because, well, I didn't want to.
I like it here. I am not the type to run away from a 'problem'. I am a pretty easy going person and I HATE drama. I don't have a 'my way or the highway' personality.
I took a 'wait and see' approach, and so far I don't see anything that would make me not want to be here. There is always going to be someone (or lots of someones) who think they can do it better, so I say go ahead and let them try. They will either succeed or not. My approach is if it ain't broke then don't fix it- 
I am sure that many of those 'guests' are the folk that did jump ship, that have to just check back and see what's going on over here. I do check in on the new forum- but haven't felt the need to join over there just yet.


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## luv3havs

Dale,
Thanks for your very expressive and heartfelt post. 

And thanks to the rest of you also, who have responded to Dale.

I just couldn't comprehend leaving the Forum for something that might happen. Or might not! We are all against puppy mills, that's for sure, but why leave when there hasn't been an advertisement yet, that would offend.
I chose to believe Yung. 

I'm so glad that lots of oldtimers remained here and I am happy to see new people coming on to tell us about their puppies. 

I do miss seeing posts from some former members, especially some of the breeders, who have so much info to share with us.(To say nothing of all the hearthrob pictures of their litters.LOL)
I'm glad to see that Tom King and Dave are still here. They are treasure troves of information.

I have learned so much over the years and love being able to come here to check out all things Havanese. It's lead me to HRI and fostering and to my special boy, Finnegan, too  
I also like the distraction from everyday stuff that the forum provides-it's a good escape!

So that's why I'm still here..


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## luv3havs

Katie,

Forgot to say that I'm glad you are still here!


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## Thumper

Aww...

:grouphug: 

The way I see it, this place has already survived 2 significant exoduses of members, this being the third, and last, hopefully... if its true that bad things happen in 3's~~

Great thread!


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## Lilly'sMom

Amen to all of the above! Someone I once knew talked about how people are like stones being polished. They need to rub against each other, sometimes causing conflict, until they become beautiful smooth stones. If we hang in there, and bear the bumps and bruises, we come out better at the end.


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## davetgabby

Lovely post Dale, home is where the heart is.


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## motherslittlehelper

Dale, I too want to thank you for starting this thread. There is such wisdom in your words and you expressed them so eloquently. I so admire those who walk the talk. I hope your family also appreciates your wisdom. 

I am fairly new here, and in my search for more information about my new Hav baby, I found the forum. I was so incredibly excited to find all the information contained within the forum and the knowledgeable people who were members that were so willing to share. But it was a bit later, after lurking and reading the posts for a few months, that it became apparent that there was so much more than the information that was so valuable - it was the sense of community, the friendships formed, the support in times of need and heartbreak, and of having someone to share accomplishments with who would understand the effort involved in attaining those accomplishments and goals. And, yes, as in all families, there also appeared to be times of some hastily spoken harsh words and hurt. But, as in families, hopefully people can step back, reflect, learn, move on and work together to make their family stronger. 

I so appreciate being able to read the posts from all of you who have remained and seeing the photos of your Havs (and friends!). I admire your strength and willingness to stay to work with the new owners to affect change and to educate, to make this an even better and stronger place than it was.


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## irnfit

You are all making me teary eyed. I guess I'm one of the "old" members, being here since 2006. I know this is only a forum and not life or death, but I am very saddened by what has happened. I did join HT and browse there a bit, but mostly I'm on here, because it feels like home.

I'm also sad that most of the breeders have decided to leave us. We really respected the information they gave to us about so many things so we could do better by this wonderful breed.


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## pjewel

Katie's here and we get to see her talented and quite grown up Brooklyn handling her beautiful babies. I caution you all, don't rush over to her website now or you'll all have advanced cases of MHS. Lucky for all of us, the latest litter is spoken for. They are gorgeous.

I think there was a knee jerk reaction when the change took place, to rush to find another venue. We've all grown so attached. I can't imagine my world without you in it. It really felt like a death. I was in mourning. I couldn't sleep and I felt like crying, but in the end we chose not to listen to prognostications of doom and to stick around in our home that was threatened by rising flood waters. I'm so glad we all did.


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## irnfit

pjewel said:


> Katie's here and we get to see her talented and quite grown up Brooklyn handling her beautiful babies. I caution you all, don't rush over to her website now or you'll all have advanced cases of MHS. Lucky for all of us, the latest litter is spoken for. They are gorgeous.


And I so appreciate those that stayed. Their information and guidance is priceless. Muchas gracias!


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## marjrc

I joined this forum way back in 2006 as a reader, then in Jan. as a poster. The people here have been a great support to me too, when I had a very scary time with Ricky's liver enzymes, with helping me decide on adding Sammy to our family, with all kinds of issues. There have been personal crises, lots of laughs and tears and I thoroughly enjoyed sharing any information I could get my hands on. My post number will attest to that.  

The thing is, it's the PEOPLE here that I grew attached to. A more loyal forum member you would not have been able to find. It's the members that I've come to call my friends and it doesn't matter what the URL says at the top of my page, so long as I can call that site 'a nice place to put my feet up among friends'. BUT... when that place's values change to a point that I can on longer in good conscience support it, I must move on elsewhere and hope my friends understand this.

I am not jumping ship, nor am I a coward or a quitter. I will fight for the betterment of the Havanese, the breed I love deeply, until my dying day. I am sure of that. If my very passionate fight against puppy mills means I have to leave the 'nice place' that now supports that industry, then I have to make that decision that has nothing to do with the PEOPLE at that forum, but with the forum itself, with the site and it's new owners. There is proof to back my decision, proof in 17 dog forums that VS now owns, ads that pop up about teacup Havanese (yes, already!) and more than a dozen other breeds. I am NOT making this up so as to cause a rift! I don't play those kinds of games.

For the love of dogs, how can one STAY and support this! It is nothing personal against any one person. My fight is with a location. Those people who choose to see this as petty, as cowardly or as trivial just don't get it. I can't help with that. We are all adults and so are responsible for the choices we make.

In tears, this is the last post I will write in this forum. ... that is IF it doesn't get deleted! If you want to reach me, you know how.


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## Missy

I have a foot in both forums because there are people who have left that who I have grown to love. This split has torn me I'm two as well. I have had long chats with some of you. I have to admit my heart is not as much in either forum as it has been. But you know, that is not all bad as i am spending more time with my boys rather than talking about them. Not to mention how much time it takes to check in with two different forums. Lol. But that being said i do think i find myself gravitating home! Thanks for posting this Dale.


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## The Laughing Magpie

The sad truth is even petfinder has a problem with puppy mills popping up and they do nothing (unless there are so many complants that are actionable what ever that means) because they exist for the betterment of condictions of dogs. Puppy mills are slick and so are some rescues. The only way we can help is to report them. So if we see an add and we think it is a mill we report them. The more that complain the more chance of them getting cut off. How do I know this PM me and I will tell you some of you already know. This forum is an excellent resource for rescue. Also the best person to talk about the horrors of puppy mills are those who have had a bad experience with a puppy mill dog!!!! I have not bought from a pet store but I know the heart break of a puppy mill pet and I went into it eyes open.


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## BeverlyA

I have been a member of the Havanese Forum since Oct. 2006. There were fewer than 20 people on the Forum when I joined. I too have gone through numerous surgeries, personal losses, and family tragidies since then that I was helped through with the help of my Forum friends. 

The very first Havanese National held after I joined the Forum I attended so I could meet some Forum friends and learn more about the little dogs I love so much.

In these past 4 years, the Forum has grown larger than anyone would have imagined. It was always "OUR" Forum, the "FRIENDLY" Forum, the "NICE" Forum compared to all those other forums and boards. Our Forum wasn't a domain name and address. It was US. A group of people that sincerly cared about each other, each others dogs, and the Havanese breed. OUR Forum was our knowledge, the things we learned by trial and error. What we learned at vet appointments then passed on. Our disasters at groomers that turned us into our own groomers. The entire body of information from US was the Forum.

I think in the 4 years that I've been a member here that maybe 3 people had been banned. You know those breeders that you don't see here anymore? They were banned and can not be here anymore, and they were not banned because they were "running" from any kind of fight.

Because of the Forum I got involved in the quilt projects, where my mom did the hand quilting on the first quilts. I became involved with HRI and now have a foster at my house right now.

September is the AKCs Responsible Dog Ownership month. How ironic that VS chose to begin integrating the Havanese forum that they now own, into their stable of dog sites. Just check out any of their sites for yourself and see what you find. It is not something that OUR Forum would be involved in. 
I have been absolutely brokenhearted over this, the hurt feelings, the gossiping, the stories but that doesn't change the bottom line for me, which is VS is a business that owns many sites, seventeen of them dog forums, and they all have puppies advertised on them. 
My feelings for the forum are for the members, because they WERE and ARE the forum. I have no reason to be loyal to a company called VS. They are simply trying to make money, nothing more, nothing less. They are not in the business of helping dogs. This is no longer my forum and I too, like Marj only wonder how long this post will last. 
I really believe that all of the members, of both sites want the same things, but the owners absolutely do not. That is where the difference is.
It is with a very heavy heart that I leave this place. Yes, it's convenient to stay with what you know how to use and familiarity always feels good, but what kind of a hypocrite would I be, sitting here with my mill foster Ruby, who spent 4 disgusting years in a mill pushing out puppies until she was useless to them, and then log on to a VS owned site and just put my blinders on my rose colored glasses?
The Havanese Forum that I proudly belonged to and promoted every chance I got is not a domain name and address and it no longer exists. It is the people and the information and the caring and that does still exist.
Beverly Ashley :Cry::grouphug:


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## MopTop Havanese

I guess, Marj, what I don't understand is that if you want to fight for the betterment of the breed- and help educate people about puppy mills ect- then why would you leave this forum? Why wouldnt you stay here to continue to educate people?
There are going to be new people that lurk here and join here every single day. If all the 'oldies' who are so passionate about the breed leave HF, who will be here to educate them? They may (or may not) see a questionable ad pop up, and they may have questions- but what if there is no one here to help? No one to keep reminding of the horror of puppy mills.
As a breeder nothing sickens me more than seeing how those poor mommas and puppies are treated. That's why I chose to stick around here. I will continue to always help people where help is needed. I will do my best to report an ads that may (or may not) pop up, continue to educate- if we all left, and only the 'newbies' stuck around- who will do that???


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## Thumper

Very well said, Katie :kiss: and I agree with you.

Marj and Bev, nobody that is choosing to stay here supports these horrid and despicable things that these mill breeders do. I am certainly not a cheerleader for any injustice to any living being, animal or human. I love and respect both of you and I have been here since 06 too, mostly lurking and looking at pictures.... I did have another screenname a few months before this one but I forgot the password and Melissa deleted it a few years ago and yes, there was a handful of people here and NObody had even heard of this breed. We grew and grew...and will continue to grow and please know that those of us here will continue to educate those who find this place searching for a puppy. To fight the problem, I did write a letter to Google about the ads, I hope others chose to take this action directly to the origination of this as well. If I boycotting every place that ran a google ad, I'd have to quit using the internet all together...and that can't happen, I'm addicted. lol

I'd hate to see the warm, fuzzy thread go to an argument over the google ads, I'm pretty sure we've beaten that horse to death..:deadhorse:

I respect your decision to leave and I hope you'll respect ours to stay. :kiss: and I say this with respect, a warm heart and feelings of gratitude for both of you being there for me so many times when I needed guidance and friendship and I hope anything I say isn't taken out of context as being snarky, that isn't my intent.


:focus:...ANOTHER reason I love this place so much is I already have other forum members offering to open up their home to me if we have to vacate for the hurricane and that is SOO very gracious and kind it just brings tears to my eyes. I have met and continue to meet so many amazing people through my journey with Gucci and the Havanese owners :kiss:

~~Kara


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## Julie

I'm still here on this forum as well.

I don't think there is anyone who would want to see mill dogs advertised anywhere on the internet. For me -- I'm only going to worry about THIS forum...not every forum VS owns. If Yung is telling us he will do his best to keep puppy ads off of here...."our forum"...then I'm going to believe him. If he fails and puppy ads start popping up,he knows what will probably happen. The membership will dwindle and it more then likely will be the death of this forum. Yung knows this....and he also now knows we fish smack! :fish: ound:

It is heartbreaking to see the forum members split and I have friends on both forums..many I miss terribly.I think at least for me, I am hoping friendships endure because I don't care which forum you belong to,or even both or neither for that matter!

The thing is--we (as a large entire group BEFORE the split) need healing and need to just let it go and move on. As long as there is venom and anger being vented it will not help us heal. I see no reason why we can not save friendships and bridge the gap between the 2 forums. 

Okay--now--I am sick (really-strep)so I need to go heal......


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## Administrator

Hi everyone,

Thank you to those of you who have offered your support or at the very least, are willing to give us a chance here.

I cannot say that I agree with everything that has been said about us but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everything that happened weeks ago is water under the bridge and we're moving ahead with continuing to make HF the best resource for all things Havs online.


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## LuvCicero

I want to thank everyone that has posted on this thread. It has touched me in a lot of ways!!

I don't live in an area with puppy mills or pet stores that I know of. Many years ago there were a few homes that I visited when searching for a puppy that didn't suit me at all and I walked away. I do know they exist and know they are bad and I feel that educating people is a good way to help stop people from supporting them and making mistakes in selecting a good pet.

This will explain me ~~ My real passion is for young people. When we lost our son due to a speeding accident my focus turned toward educating young people on the dangers of speeding, DUI's etc. It happens every day. A child is lost and families are forever changed. Kids can find ways to get alcohol. I could have said - and ask all my family and friends - to not support any place that sold alcohol. I did not see where that was going to do any good. I felt that I had to educate the young people on the dangers if it wasn't handled in the right way. I have spoken in past times to a gym full of high school kids and told them my story and admitted that I'm not a speaker, just a Mom. I ask them to 'think' of the what if's, let them see my tears and pain and left them with the question ~ "Do you want your Mom to be a speaker next year?" I know that works because I got notes, calls from parents, and even a few gifts because kids did listen and went home to talk about it.

I also had a friend that would go with me to sit in the parking lot of a beer store in my area at times. We had snacks and talked and watched customers come and go. You know what? Teenagers will go to a beer store and talk with older guys that pull up and get them to go inside to buy beer for them. When it was going to change hands, I would get out of my car and calmly tell the older guy that I had his tag number and he knew what he was doing was wrong and someone could get in trouble or hurt. I told the teenagers I had their tag number also and I didn't think their parents would like them driving and drinking. I was not supporting the beer store with all their ads across the windows. I'm sure there were people that saw my car in the parking lot and thought I was supporting the beer store and also assumed I was becoming an alcoholic and were shocked. I didn't care what people thought. I knew my reason for being there and if I could teach one person to think about what they were doing then I was so very happy.

I believe Melissa started this forum because she loved the breed. She still has her kids and I'm sure she still loves them. I don't walk in Melissa shoes, but I would think she did what she needed to do for herself and what she thought was best and there is certainly nothing wrong with that in my book.

Me&#8230;for my love of dogs I am going to stay in this parking lot and try to teach others to think about where they get their puppies. I will respect anyone that fights puppy mills in their way, and please don't try to make me feel bad for doing it the way that works for me.

Now...I would like to get back to hearing reasons on why others have stayed on this forum. I think I understand why some have left. I will be happy to do a thread on how I talk to people about puppy mills later.


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## mintchip

:hugale:hug:


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## luv3havs

Dale,

I am so sorry for your loss.
There is nothing worse than losing a child.


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## Thumper

Dale :grouphug: I'm sorry for your loss and your outreach to others is very touching, :kiss:


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## SMARTY

Dale your post is beautiful. Well said and many of us do get it. Thank you for sharing your story.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Wonderful to know there are people out there like you Dale.. You did a great job in front of the beer store and I am sure the beer store owner knew you were out there after a while. Interesting thought! If everyone stayed out of the beer store parking lot, in the safe lot, across the street holding up signs, who is more effective?


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## Kathie

Dale, thank you for putting our focus on "why we chose to stay" and away from bad feelings that have been expressed. :focus: I am so thankful that we can be able to respect the opinions of others without being negative. This is not just a forum to me it is friends helping friends. :hug:


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## pjewel

Dale, just know when you look out of your car window in this parking lot, you'll see me right along side of you. I'm sending you a cyber hug. You and I have discussed your loss in the past and I think we both know your son is also known to be in that car right along with you. :grouphug:


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Wonderful to know there are people out there like you Dale.. You did a great job in front of the beer store and I am sure the beer store owner knew you were out there after a while. Interesting thought! If everyone stayed out of the beer store parking lot, in the safe lot, across the street holding up signs, who is more effective?


I should have added to this that question "who is more effective"? is something each person has to decide and it was not meant to be combative. I think we all care about each other and that goes without saying. It's all about friendship at this point I think.


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## krandall

Thumperlove said:


> Dale, that is so touching and beautiful :kiss:
> 
> my turn?
> 
> It's simple, really. This forum and Gucci saved my life. 2006 was a horrendously awful year for me, I was diagnosed with some rare auto-immune disorders,
> <snip>
> I still Have them but I am doing better and the medication is tweaked well enough where I can function most days normally, and the days that I am in bed and feeling rotten..I have her by my side snuggled up sleeping the day away with me and its amazing her loyalty and how the companionship has benefitted me in such a positive way.
> 
> ~~Kara


Hi Kara,

That's why I got Kodi too. I also have an auto-immune disease, (RA) which is only partially controlled by my (many) meds. After fighting my disease for 4 years I got to the point where I could no longer ride my beloved horses. While I had tried to keep soldiering on through it all up until then, when it became clear that I really wasn't going to be able to ride anymore (let alone ride at the highly competitive level I rode at pre-RA) I also went into a pretty severe funk. Eventually, we decided to get a small dog so that I could still have the fun of training an animal, but one that was easier on my joints. (though those first few months of training to heel were pretty hard on my back!!!)

When I was sort of on waffling back and forth between a Hav and a Coton, I found this site. I learned a TON, decided that a Hav was the dog for me, and found my breeder here. I've made friends here... not only "virtual" friends, but real-life, meet in person friends. I would be very, very sad if this forum went down the drain. So I will do my part to participate and make sure that doesn't happen.


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## Kathy

BRAVO BEVERLY!!! Very well stated.

Katie, by staying here and "helping" to answer questions, sharing puppy pictures, etc, everyone is financially supporting VS whether you realize it or not.

Choice is good and I like having a choice. As other's have said, time will show more.



BeverlyA said:


> I have been a member of the Havanese Forum since Oct. 2006. There were fewer than 20 people on the Forum when I joined. I too have gone through numerous surgeries, personal losses, and family tragidies since then that I was helped through with the help of my Forum friends.
> 
> The very first Havanese National held after I joined the Forum I attended so I could meet some Forum friends and learn more about the little dogs I love so much.
> 
> In these past 4 years, the Forum has grown larger than anyone would have imagined. It was always "OUR" Forum, the "FRIENDLY" Forum, the "NICE" Forum compared to all those other forums and boards. Our Forum wasn't a domain name and address. It was US. A group of people that sincerly cared about each other, each others dogs, and the Havanese breed. OUR Forum was our knowledge, the things we learned by trial and error. What we learned at vet appointments then passed on. Our disasters at groomers that turned us into our own groomers. The entire body of information from US was the Forum.
> 
> I think in the 4 years that I've been a member here that maybe 3 people had been banned. You know those breeders that you don't see here anymore? They were banned and can not be here anymore, and they were not banned because they were "running" from any kind of fight.
> 
> Because of the Forum I got involved in the quilt projects, where my mom did the hand quilting on the first quilts. I became involved with HRI and now have a foster at my house right now.
> 
> September is the AKCs Responsible Dog Ownership month. How ironic that VS chose to begin integrating the Havanese forum that they now own, into their stable of dog sites. Just check out any of their sites for yourself and see what you find. It is not something that OUR Forum would be involved in.
> I have been absolutely brokenhearted over this, the hurt feelings, the gossiping, the stories but that doesn't change the bottom line for me, which is VS is a business that owns many sites, seventeen of them dog forums, and they all have puppies advertised on them.
> My feelings for the forum are for the members, because they WERE and ARE the forum. I have no reason to be loyal to a company called VS. They are simply trying to make money, nothing more, nothing less. They are not in the business of helping dogs. This is no longer my forum and I too, like Marj only wonder how long this post will last.
> I really believe that all of the members, of both sites want the same things, but the owners absolutely do not. That is where the difference is.
> It is with a very heavy heart that I leave this place. Yes, it's convenient to stay with what you know how to use and familiarity always feels good, but what kind of a hypocrite would I be, sitting here with my mill foster Ruby, who spent 4 disgusting years in a mill pushing out puppies until she was useless to them, and then log on to a VS owned site and just put my blinders on my rose colored glasses?
> The Havanese Forum that I proudly belonged to and promoted every chance I got is not a domain name and address and it no longer exists. It is the people and the information and the caring and that does still exist.
> Beverly Ashley :Cry::grouphug:


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## pjewel

The point is, those who have chosen to leave have. Those who have chosen to stay have. It's all good. Just be happy where you are and allow others to be happy with the choices they make.


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## Kathie

Karen, I too have RA and there is a thread on here about the auto-immune diseases which many of our members have in common. I'm not sure if you were here when it started. I am so glad you are here and I'm inspired by your activity with Kodi (even moreso now that I know about your RA). I'm not quite as spry as I'd like to be but I am thankful for the many new medications available because I have been much worse! Keep up the good work with your sweet and smart boy!


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## Kathie

Gee, do I need to say this again? :focus:


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## Thumper

Karen, bless your heart, you have probably been through the exact same prescription after prescription after side effect and then they just give you another pill to counter act the side effect from the first prescription and on and on,it is no wonder we get all upset, its a hard thing to go to and anything with chronic pain is hard pill to swallow because you realize how it will change your life and you have no control over it whatsoever and the medicine? It only can help, not eliminate or cure, and I certainly know what you mean and I had always wanted a dog 'when my kids got older' and it seemed like the perfect time and I needed a small one because I'm built like Olive Oil and I"m about as strong physically as her too..ound:

It has been a rewarding journey and I do know she's made me better. She's a service dog whether she knows it or not  I'm glad you found the forum and an unconventional form of healing :kiss:
Kara


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## Sheri

Dale, :kiss:


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## Missy

OK I am on this forum because IWAP! and yet CNHAAP! but the pictures get me through! 

Oh there are so many reasons I am here and have stayed and will continue to stay. My whole history for the last 4 years is journaled on this site. I can go back and read of my sad dog Jasper becoming a happy dog here, with all your support through pet communicators, and mail man dilemmas. You saw me through my post pupdom depression when Cash came home. I had 24 hour support when Cash was was terribly sick and no one knew what was wrong over the course of 3 weeks... And you all GFETE when he got better... You cheered my Emmy win...And prayed for my mom... I have met some of you and feel like I know many of you. And I hope I have been there for all of you too. too many to hug personally right now. But hugs to you all.


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## Thumper

Missy said:


> OK I am on this forum because IWAP! and yet CNHAAP! but the pictures get me through!
> 
> Oh there are so many reasons I am here and have stayed and will continue to stay. My whole history for the last 4 years is journaled on this site. I can go back and read of my sad dog Jasper becoming a happy dog here, with all your support through pet communicators, and mail man dilemmas. You saw me through my post pupdom depression when Cash came home. I had 24 hour support when Cash was was terribly sick and no one knew what was wrong over the course of 3 weeks... And you all GFETE when he got better... You cheered my Emmy win...And prayed for my mom... I have met some of you and feel like I know many of you. And I hope I have been there for all of you too. too many to hug personally right now. But hugs to you all.


Hugs back atcha', pretty girl! :grouphug::biggrin1:


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## Kathy

pjewel said:


> The point is, those who have chosen to leave have. Those who have chosen to stay have. It's all good. Just be happy where you are and allow others to be happy with the choices they make.


Yes true


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## Missy

On a side note. A while ago, I asked Yung to remove from public site the "ailments other then MHS" thread mentioned above. It had not had much activity for a while and I didn't think anyone would mind. Personally, I started that thread when we were a much smaller group that was much more intimate... I thought we all had some very personal non Hav related info on there that could be targeted by drug companies through google ads. I hope I did not overstep my bounds by asking him to remove it--If people would like it re-instated please feel free to ask Yung to do so. I will go in and delete my posts. But perhaps a better way is to start a new thread, so we can keep the new reality in mind when we post.


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## Thumper

Nah, Missy..it can stay buried if you prefer. If they were going to target me it'd be pretty easy, the pharmacy has my email address and so does the non 'mhs' forum I belong to, they find us, its what they do  People get sick, dogs get sick...that's just a part of life, let it stay buried and no, you didn't overstep your bounds, it was your thread.


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## krandall

Thumperlove said:


> Nah, Missy..it can stay buried if you prefer. If they were going to target me it'd be pretty easy, the pharmacy has my email address and so does the non 'mhs' forum I belong to, they find us, its what they do  People get sick, dogs get sick...that's just a part of life, let it stay buried and no, you didn't overstep your bounds, it was your thread.


I dunno... All the drug companies seem to want to sell me is Viagra! What's with that?ound:


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## Thumper

krandall said:


> I dunno... All the drug companies seem to want to sell me is Viagra! What's with that?ound:


I get those too!! LOL

and ...ahem, 'enhancements'......ound:

okay people....:focus:ound:


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## pjewel

krandall said:


> I dunno... All the drug companies seem to want to sell me is Viagra! What's with that?ound:


You just made me spit my dinner all over the screen. Quick cleanup.


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## pjewel

Thumperlove said:


> I get those too!! LOL
> 
> and ...ahem, 'enhancements'......ound:
> 
> okay people....:focus:ound:


So tell me, how well do you think the enhancements work without the proper parts. I get those ads all the time. And, with all the middle of the night changes to my body, nowhere have I seen a new appendage.


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## Thumper

pjewel said:


> So tell me, how well do you think the enhancements work without the proper parts. I get those ads all the time. And, with all the middle of the night changes to my body, nowhere have I seen a new appendage.


ound:ound:ound:ound: oh lord that made me laugh so hard I almost criedound:ound:ound:


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## andra

Well, I am another brand new member and I am happy to be here. My journey to having my havanese Dionna is a fairly sad one and I posted about it in my introduction. I have no regrets in the journey that led me to my havanese joy  and I am very happy to be here.

And yes, I will post some pictures of Dionna and also my two hedgehogs Spikey and Mr. Pickles really soon. Things have been a bit hectic and I have not had time to figure it out. Hopefully this weekend I will have time.

andra


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## davetgabby

I'm here because I like it here. I have found no reason to leave. Yung has been nothing but professional in all matters. He has gone out of his way to address our issues. If these ads that we are talking about do come, and they are out of his control ,then all we can do is petition them . Maybe we can do more good by protesting these ads to their source and hopefully get the message out that we do not approve of them. This has been difficult to see people leave. I respect every one's freedom of choice. Let's just keep our dogs our number one concern. It's the people that make the forum not the issues. God bless those who have left , you will be missed.


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## lfung5

I knew nothing about the split, because I've been really busy with work. Brady's mom briefly told me what happened. I'm on both forums, because I'm really just here for the cute pups and peeps! I don't want to take sides. I don't agree with puppymill's, but can see both points of view. So I will just stay perched on top of the fence and enjoy both forums
Hope that's ok!


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## pjewel

Linda, of course it's okay. I think we're all here for the same reason, for our babies and for the camaraderie of a caring group of people.


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## LuvCicero

Yes, Linda, that is okay...you are a smart lady to just enjoy!


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang

My reasons are simple: I own a Havanese and want to learn, share, brag or fret about life with these wonderful dogs. This forum was a god-send for me in those early days. I needed to focus on something other than losing Vinnie, and your stories, photos and advice were just the ticket.

I've also joined the other forum because you can't get too many stories, photos and advice when it comes to our adorable Havs. I value members from both forums, and I hope to continue to learn, enjoy and contribute to both.


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## JASHavanese

Many of us belong to different yahoo Hav groups so why not different boards? I haven't been here but not because of any problems with the forum. We were getting the house ready to sell and ran into problem after problem with contractors and it was just taking up all of my time. Even my private email sat unread for months and months. 
There's a wealth of information here and so much you guys have gone through with me. Now that I look back on it, the bed thread is funny. Sure wasn't at the time though 
You've been with me and prayed for the tiny twin that didn't make it after fighting so hard for a week.  That hurt so much that we haven't bred since and needed healing time before being ready again. I'm starting to get that puppy itch after 2 years of going without them though so who knows... You guys were the ones who pulled my husband together when I made him sit down and read the huge thread about the twins in the litter. YOU started his healing and I'm forever grateful
I don't know much of what's gone on but I'm here part time. We finally did move to Florida a couple of months ago and are getting this house the way we want it. FINALLY.....FLORIDA!!!!! Yeeeeaaahhhh :whoo: I swore we wouldn't buy on water here because I was afraid of gators...and what did we do? Bought a house where part of our property is a lake. Oh my gosh is it beautiful to sit out back and look at the water. 
There's one kind of huge duck here that's called a DOMESTIC duck and I can stand in the middle of them and drop food into their mouths. If I call out 'breakfast' or 'dinner' they know to come running. One of 'our' ducks had chicks and she brings them over to us to see. Oh they're darling!
Now if someone would be so kind as to finish digging through the rest of the boxes and stick the stuff somewhere....... ound: We still aren't fully unpacked and probably won't be until we finish upgrading the new house. Oh the spending spree we've been on! We love the new things so I guess it's worth it. 
People have their own reasons for doing what they do...please allow them their comfort zone just as you like yours respected. We all have to do what we feel is right. I can't see inside a person's head just as you can't and the only shoes that fit right are my own.
I've got to show you the backyard. This is beyond the fence and out over the water. The island in the middle is a bird sanctuary although the turtles think it's theirs too


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## Kathie

What a beautiful place you have, Jan! It's so good to hear from you! I'm so glad to hear that you are getting settled in and hope that means we will be hearing from you more often now. Congratulations on your new home!


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## Thumper

Jan, that is BEAUTIFUL!! And I'm thrilled to hear that you finally out of CC, I know how badly you wanted to move and its been a long time coming. Life is short, enjoy each day and the blessings they bring, and it looks peaceful where you are at, I"m sure you'll keep the pups safe from the gators.

and puppies in your future? You are just full of great news today  When were you thinking of breeding a litter?

Missed you!
Kara


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## SMARTY

Great hearing from you Jan, welcome back. What part of Florida did you buy in? the last we wrote you were considering the Tampa are. No matter where it is your back yard has a beautiful view.


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## pjewel

Jan,

I'm so happy to see you and I must say I'm jealous of that incredible view. It sounds like things worked out well for your DH. Did he wind up taking that job in Florida that was offered, then questionable? With benefit of hindsight it would appear all the angst was worthwhile. 

Believe it or not, I know a guy who just moved (into a new apartment) and by the time he went to bed that night, everything was unpacked and set up to the point that it looked as if he lived there for years. Would that I could live like that. Have fun with the shopping spree. I'd say it was a long time coming.

I love your line about the only shoes fitting right are your own. How true! None of us can judge other people's choices.

I hope we do see you more often. If you do decide you're ready to breed again, we'll all be here cheering you on. Be happy in Florida.


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## LuvCicero

OMGosh, what a peaceful view to start your day with a cup of coffee. You lucky duck...with all your other lucky duckies!! It sounds like it has been a good move and I hope it continues on and on. Enjoy doing the upgrades and I'm not sure anyone can ever get to the end.  Did your furkids do okay with the move and enjoy Fla? Good to see you online.


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## irnfit

Hi, Jane - welcome back. Glad you are almost settled in your new home.


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## JASHavanese

They kept offering Steve jobs in Ca. and we kept saying no. One place upped the salary offer 3 times to a beautiful 6 figure income and we didn't even blink an eye when we said no. I did look at Steve and say what did we just do when we said no, but it lasted a second and the wondering was gone. We wanted Florida even though Ca is home. He took the retirement buyout instead and told me pick a place in Fl that I wanted to be and that's where we'd move. We're outside of Tampa on the Gulf.
We flew here and searched and searched for a house we liked until we were worn out. We went to look at a house across the street from this one but this house caught my eye and had exactly what I was looking for on the outside. For some reason I fell in love with the gray slate fronting on houses here and this had it. It also had a handmade sign in the front of the yard and we were really hesitant to look at it because of that. Come to find out, the realtor had just gotten the listing and hadn't had time to get his sign out here or put it in the MLS. We went in and fell in love then raced to put a contract on it.
You know me and cooking...this house has a REAL kitchen (in my opinion) and doesn't take up 600 sq ft for no reason like our other house. It's a gallery kitchen which I love  Hate the cupboards, love the size. The fridge, dishwasher, stove it had are gone with ones we picked out in it. Since I had a dishwasher in CC that I didn't like we did a ton of research and went cross eyed reading about every model out there. It took a few weeks of researching appliances, but I love what we got. Ha, it's all electric here and we had no clue about electric stoves and sure had a lot to learn! This one I actually use....um...did you guys just faint at that news? It's not a shoe rack! ound:
The dogs didn't know what to do with the big backyard. They stayed up by the house instead of going all over the yard and that lasted a couple of weeks. They were used to a really small yard with a privacy fence and got a large yard with a short chain link fence so the view to the water isn't bocked. We had to walk the yard with the dogs so that they'd get used to having so much room...and we had to teach the birds that the other side of the fence they can be on but not our side of the fence. Whew, lots of teaching going on the first few weeks! People here sit in their garages a lot and we visit from them so the dogs had to be taught that they couldn't step outside of the garage with the door open. They learned that if they tripped the beam at the opening of the garage the light went on and they got a lecture so they stay way back from it. The dogs can't stand my lectures and after getting one, they don't want another :biggrin1:
You should have seen us for the 4th of July. We stood at the back part of the fence with the dogs and watched the big fireworks over the water. The birds...birds of all kinds, came and joined us and watched from 'their' side of the fence and we stood on the other. I wish I would have taken a picture of it but we were all enjoying the fireworks so much that I didn't even think to get the camera. 
I'm a slow typist! Just this has taken a looooooong time so I'm going to post it and come back to it. I should take a typing class 
It's so nice to hear from you guys. I'm going to have to relearn the forum....ha as if I ever did learn it! and look around to see what you're all up to.


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## pjewel

It sounds like the perfect place for you -- and for a vacation for me ound: I'd love to see photos of all the other stuff.


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## Thumper

Jan, I"d love to see more pictures  Kitchen pics?

I love my bosch dishwasher, not sure which one you decide on but a nice dishwasher makes the kitchen, imo..

Especially if you have troops like mine that like to leave oatmeal dried up on bowls and crap like that. ugh.

You house sounds amazing and like it was a bit of fate for you to end up there. Congrats!!

Kara


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## HavaneseSoon

I am on both boards and this is why..... all the posting and us sticking together for support. I just can't get enough Hav! I am on the fence.


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## Julie

HavaneseSoon said:


> I am on both boards and this is why..... all the posting and us sticking together for support. I just can't get enough Hav! I am on the fence.


There is certainly nothing wrong with being on both forums! eace:


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## ls-indy

HavaneseSoon said:


> I am on both boards and this is why..... all the posting and us sticking together for support. I just can't get enough Hav! I am on the fence.


Me too! Friends on both and want to keep in touch with everyone and their havies. Guess we just can't get too much havie!!


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## judith

where is the "other" forum, please?


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## Sheri

Judy and Coco, I sent you an e-mail with the link, since you have asked for it.


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## judith

sheri, thanks!
judy on catalina island


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## Sheri

Judy, we're a couple of "islanders," it looks like, huh?


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## judith

sheri, we sure are, love it!!!


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