# Grooming help - what am I doing wrong?!?



## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

Hi everyone,

I need help!!! I've changed my grooming (for the better, I thought) and I think I've made a mess!

I'm trying to grow out Tango because she's SO beautiful (I'm only slightly biased). Her hair is about 3"-4" all over, except her tail, head, and legs which are even longer. I brush her 3-4 times each week, depending on when she needs it. I clean her face and eyes each day, put in a new topknot each morning, and brush her head/ears/beard when I put in her topknot.

I've been using cheap products from the local pet shop (goody brush, plastic rat-tail comb, whatever detangler was on the shelf, Hartz shampoo and conditioner) for months and have nad no problems. No mats, very few tangles - nothing.

I've been researching grooming products and wanted only THE BEST for my little girl. I purchased Spa Lavish Facial Scrub, shampoo, and conditioner. I also purchased a CC pin brush (I think that's what it is called - just a "regular" brush) and buttercomb, as well as Ice-On-Ice. 

I have been washing her face with Spa Lavish Facial Scrub each morning (instead of just a damp washcloth) and have given her two baths with the Spa Lavish shampoo and conditioner. I've been spraying Ice On Ice during her normal grooming sessions, and have been using the new CC brush/comb.

I line brush with each grooming session, and my vet has always been amazed at how soft, healthy, and untangled her coat seems, and asks me always if I groom her myself!

With the new products.....I must be doing something wrong! Her coat is getting more and more cottony, less silky, and has started to break horribly!!! When I brush with the buttercomb, it almost makes a "squeak" sound as I pull it through her hair. The brush hurts her so bad, she's starts to squirm the second I put her up on the table (she never minded grooming before, well, except her feet). And I'm tearing out handfulls of fur - more than 3x as much fur as I would pull out before! 

In addition, she is now getting HORRIBLE matts behind her ears, and behind her front legs, where before there were none.

There is no way she's blowing coat - she's 11 years old! What am I doing that is making her hair more cotton, more tangled, and more difficult to manage? Do I need to change my grooming "style" since I have better products now? I just don't know what I could be doing wrong.

Help!?!:brick:


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

It's the Ice on Ice. Stop using it ASAP. A lot of other Hav owners on the forum noticed the drying of the coat and the breakage. It's definitely not the brush or the comb.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Lina said:


> It's the Ice on Ice. Stop using it ASAP. A lot of other Hav owners on the forum noticed the drying of the coat and the breakage. It's definitely not the brush or the comb.


I completely agree. CC has some great products, but this particular one seems to be murder on Havanese coats.

Make sure you don't use any products on her that have silicone in it. That can appear as any ingredient with -ethicone in it (dimethicone is one I see often).

Keep in mind that this won't fix her coat right away because the Ice On Ice may have dried it out, but grab a bottle of Coat Handler Conditioner and possibly a deep conditioning product too, and you can start working on getting her coat back into shape.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Lina said:


> I*t's the Ice on Ice. Stop using it ASAP.* A lot of other Hav owners on the forum noticed the drying of the coat and the breakage. It's definitely not the brush or the comb.


It dried Oliver out :frusty::frusty:


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

Ugh. I was so proud, too, thinking I was getting all of this awesome stuff that would make her even more beautiful. :frusty:

Thank you so much, I will stop the Ice On Ice today!!!!!

What do you use when you brush your Havs? I've always heard you should not brush them when they are dry. Obviously this isn't the right choice, but I don't know what is. I would love any suggestions!

Thank you for your help! Tango especially thanks you. :thumb:


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Most people recommend only brushing them after misting their coat first. I use a diluted spray of Coat Handlers and water. Just a little spritz goes a long way.

I was using Ice on Ice for a time, before I found the Forum. Noticed that his coat seemed to be getting brittle, then learned on the Forum that Ice on Ice was apparently bad on a Hav's coat. I stopped it right away, too. I had just bought a second new bottle, too. Bummer.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

It is definitely the Ice on Ice. 

I ruined Lincoln's coat using a daily spray that had silicone in it. Avoid products that have silicone or silicone derivatives (dimethicone, etc.) for daily use.

Many of us use Coat Handler's Conditioner, diluted, as a daily grooming spray. It has no silicone or oils and is a leave-in conditioner, so it keeps the coat feeling smooth and soft.

At this point, see if you can salvage the coat by washing out the Ice on Ice and doing a deep condition.


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

Jane said:


> It is definitely the Ice on Ice.
> 
> I ruined Lincoln's coat using a daily spray that had silicone in it. Avoid products that have silicone or silicone derivatives (dimethicone, etc.) for daily use.
> 
> ...


Thank you ALL so much! Fortunately I've only used the Ice on Ice maybe a dozen times. Probably not even that many. So maybe (hopefully) I haven't done too much damage! Looks like tomorrow is bath day. Wish me luck getting all of her nasty new matts out. I really hope I won't have to trim her down. She's growing out so nicely!


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

I also want to chime in and agree with the others about ice on ice, it should have a warning for us havanese folk! It totally dried out Posh's hair.

I also use the Coat Handler conditioner and it works well for Posh who has a thinner, straighter coat. You'll really like this product.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I've actually found that it's easier for me to brush/comb through my Havs' hair when it's dry. I even wait a while before brushing them after a bath. I absorb as much water as I can, have them run around like Tazmanian devils and then do short combing sessions or brush with the blow dryer until they're about 80% dry. It works for mine!

I think you're doing everything right, the line brushing, the tools, but yeah... Ice on Ice didn't work too well for me either.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I brush before the bath and then only brush their faces after. I wait until they're completely dry to brush them.


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## Ana's Mojito (Sep 24, 2007)

yikes! I haven't used the Ice on Ice for more than a couple of months, but Mojito's hair is not as beautiful as it used to be... I'll stop using it right now! I have a new bottle also... bummer. I've started using the Coat Handler shampoo and conditioner. I'll start using the conditioner diluted (14:1 I think it recommends) as a grooming spray today. I remember reading here the shampoo is not recommended, I did notice it doesn't lather very well, but does it dry out the hair? I never know which product is to blame... At least now I know I'll stop using the Ice on Ice. I have a friend who has two white Havs and she uses it, they have abundant coats, BUT their ends are dry... They have completely white and unstained under-eye areas, she says she applies the Ice on Ice... Any of you with light colored Havs use anything in particular? I clean with Crystal Clear but sometimes Mojito does get stained...
thank you!


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## Patti McNeil (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm glad I read this because I was considering using 'White on White'. Any thoughts on this product for light colored hav's?


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

White on white should be used very sparingly. It penitrates the pores in their hair, and acts almost like a bleach. It should only be used on severe stains. Also, unless you close the hair follicle after you use it, the staining comes back. 

I really like Isle of Dogs, I use it on my havs, and on my long haired client dogs(goldens, afghans, etc). I LOVE it. They have seprate systems for different types of coats. Its great!!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

11 years old with a beautiful coat, my advice is to go back to what you were doing. 

You probably need to follow some of the experts above for re-conditioning, 

Good luck, she is beautiful.


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