# Independent play



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

One thing I did not follow through on very well is teaching our Havanese to play independently when he was a puppy. Has anyone worked on this with an adult dog? He sometimes chews on a bully stick but has never really chewed or played with a toy on his own. I do give him “burrow” toys, which he loves, but he brings them to me when he’s done because he wants me to throw them, and it’s pretty quick. 

It’s actually kind of a secondary thing I’m hoping might help with a new behavior that’s popped up in the last month. Every time I leave the room and return, he jumps up on me and starts humping my arm. I’ve been redirecting him, but it seems like over excitement. He tried to hump around 5-6 months of age during rambunctious play but stopped with redirection within weeks and hadn’t done it since, and he’s 3 now. My kids are back in school and I think he’s not blowing off as much steam. I’m working on engaging him more often at other times, but I would like to work on independent play, too.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> One thing I did not follow through on very well is teaching our Havanese to play independently when he was a puppy. Has anyone worked on this with an adult dog? He sometimes chews on a bully stick but has never really chewed or played with a toy on his own. I do give him "burrow" toys, which he loves, but he brings them to me when he's done because he wants me to throw them, and it's pretty quick.
> 
> It's actually kind of a secondary thing I'm hoping might help with a new behavior that's popped up in the last month. Every time I leave the room and return, he jumps up on me and starts humping my arm. I've been redirecting him, but it seems like over excitement. He tried to hump around 5-6 months of age during rambunctious play but stopped with redirection within weeks and hadn't done it since, and he's 3 now. My kids are back in school and I think he's not blowing off as much steam. I'm working on engaging him more often at other times, but I would like to work on independent play, too.


My dogs never did much independent play. I was wondering if Sundance might need some extra exercise to help him get rid of his excess energy? Perhaps some additional walks? Regular walks have been a big help to me over the years to wear them out. My yorkie especially needs a few walks per day, not so much now that he is older, but definitely when he was younger.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree. Adult dogs really don't "play" much. Especially not independently. A good brisk walk early in the day (or a 20 minute game of fetch, or a half hour training session with good "brain work" can be just as effective!) and they should be pretty willing to just lay around and sleep until the kids come home from school.


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

My Yorkie is over 8 years old. She doesn't play anymore. Enjoyment for her is being on her doggy bed or on the sofa watching tv by me. Other forms of play include snoozing and pretending she's on the watch for intruders (LOL) at the same time.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> I agree. Adult dogs really don't "play" much. Especially not independently. A good brisk walk early in the day (or a 20 minute game of fetch, or a half hour training session with good "brain work" can be just as effective!) and they should be pretty willing to just lay around and sleep until the kids come home from school.


I have found the "brain work" to be even more effective than exercise a lot of the time.

I remember being told we should help him learn to play and engage in things independently so he wasn't just "waiting" for us. I don't even remember what exercises we were supposed to do, I just remember it was one of the homework assignments we didn't really follow through on very well. It makes sense it's more applicable to a puppy with more of a drive to play.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> My dogs never did much independent play. I was wondering if Sundance might need some extra exercise to help him get rid of his excess energy? Perhaps some additional walks? Regular walks have been a big help to me over the years to wear them out. My yorkie especially needs a few walks per day, not so much now that he is older, but definitely when he was younger.


He seems to be getting the same amount of exercise. My schedule is pretty much back to what it was before covid, although DH is working from home now, too. But there is MUCH less of interest going on. I might be underestimating the potential increase in exercise he had following my kids around the house while they were home.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> He seems to be getting the same amount of exercise. My schedule is pretty much back to what it was before covid, although DH is working from home now, too. But there is MUCH less of interest going on. I might be underestimating the potential increase in exercise he had following my kids around the house while they were home.


One thing that Mia LOVES is when I hide treats all over the house and then she finds them. Good exercise for body and mind and keeps her occupied while I am doing something else. She makes several "rounds" too just to make sure she did not miss anything! I keep the treats super tiny and hide lots of them.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Ditto on Mudpuppymama, Cotton and Jodie love that game.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

When Truffles wants to play she will pick-up a toy and run around with it. She likes to play fetch.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Hate to say this, but get another dog. LOL Oliver and Roxie pounce all over each other till they both pass out. I do 5-10 minutes of training with them individually a day. Oliver has recently stopped his enjoyment of tug of war etc, in favor of being incredibly chill. I'm a little sad, honestly. But he also gets extra exercise from this puppy! She's FINALLY getting more polite and they can cuddle without her jumping on him. She's really cuddly with us too, which makes him jealous so he'll literally jump on my pillow in the morning.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Here here Melissa! That was our solution😆 Cotton still try’s to hump Jodie but she’s quicker than he is. Of course it is more expensive to have multiple dogs.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Recently Oliver has started trying to hump Roxie and it totally confused me! He hasn't tried to hump anyone since he was neutered. I'm guessing over-excitement too. Definitely not from lack of play/ stimulation, lol. In fact, I work hard to make sure that in my crazy house they get naps. I was starting to worry about Oliver wanting to sleep so much since turning 18-19 months old, but I guess it's normal!


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Cotton and JoJo used to hump each other all the time when they played which is usually when Cotton tries to jump Jodie. With our dogs it’s always just been a pecking order thing. This is bringing me back again to my plea with our breeder to have a girl. My husband and I both have 2 brothers no sisters, two sons no daughters and every animal has been male or miraculously turned into one. “Please, I’m 59 years old and before I die I need another living being in my life that squats when it pees.” Worked like charm 😆 
P.S. Those two fur (hair) babies next to each other is a fatal amount of cuteness!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Woods said:


> Hate to say this, but get another dog. LOL Oliver and Roxie pounce all over each other till they both pass out. I do 5-10 minutes of training with them individually a day. Oliver has recently stopped his enjoyment of tug of war etc, in favor of being incredibly chill. I'm a little sad, honestly. But he also gets extra exercise from this puppy! She's FINALLY getting more polite and they can cuddle without her jumping on him. She's really cuddly with us too, which makes him jealous so he'll literally jump on my pillow in the morning.


Getting another dog may work in this situation while they are young and play together more, however there is no guarantee that they are going to play that much with each other when they get older. Mine played together as puppies but not any more. I would keep that in mind when considering a second dog. IMO a second dog is more work no matter how you look at it. I would only get a second dog if I wanted it, not because I thought my other dog did, or that I thought it would somehow mean less work for me.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

No, I was half kidding. Only get another dog if YOU want one. It's not necessary for the single dog. BUT Sundance is what, three? My breeder says Havs usually accept another Hav, and I know evaelizabeth HAD been thinking about getting a puppy  Mine are starting to cuddle together, which is also nice.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Woods said:


> No, I was half kidding. Only get another dog if YOU want one. It's not necessary for the single dog. BUT Sundance is what, three? My breeder says Havs usually accept another Hav, and I know evaelizabeth HAD been thinking about getting a puppy  Mine are starting to cuddle together, which is also nice.


I know a few people who have gotten a second dog thinking that somehow they would "entertain" each other so "mom" was freed up. This idea backfired on them. Just wanted to make sure others didn't fall into this trap. Getting a second dog can be great as long as it is done for the right reasons.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Melissa Woods said:


> No, I was half kidding. Only get another dog if YOU want one. It's not necessary for the single dog. BUT Sundance is what, three? My breeder says Havs usually accept another Hav, and I know evaelizabeth HAD been thinking about getting a puppy  Mine are starting to cuddle together, which is also nice.


I do want another Havanese! I was ready to start pursing it before covid, but then the covid puppy boom kind of made me wary. But, this is what I do. When it comes to big things, I'm not confident in my decisions so I start thinking of all the stuff I've put off, like like finishing our fence, and the upcoming bill for his teeth cleaning, and they become excuses for not doing it. Sundance will do very well with another dog, there's not even a question. Just yesterday he was in heaven because we have started using a neighborhood groomer who works from home and she has a dog. As soon as I go for it, I'll be kicking myself for waiting so long.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> I know a few people who have gotten a second dog thinking that somehow they would "entertain" each other so "mom" was freed up. This idea backfired on them. Just wanted to make sure others didn't fall into this trap. Getting a second dog can be great as long as it is done for the right reasons.


You are right. This was a real temptation for me because mine has isolation distress and does well staying home alone with another dog, though he struggles on his own. I had to work through my reasoning and make sure I didn't just want another puppy to fix the first one, because I am sure that WOULD backfire. I do have a worry in the back of my mind that a puppy could learn stress behaviors from my first, and I feel like my decision has to be based on the worst case scenario. If I end up having to pay for frequent daycare for two Havanese, do I still want a second? So far, the answer is YES, but with some planning  I want two Havanese because I just love them and I can't wait to get to know a second one. If they play together, it'll be a bonus.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> You are right. This was a real temptation for me because mine has isolation distress and does well staying home alone with another dog, though he struggles on his own. I had to work through my reasoning and make sure I didn't just want another puppy to fix the first one, because I am sure that WOULD backfire. I do have a worry in the back of my mind that a puppy could learn stress behaviors from my first, and I feel like my decision has to be based on the worst case scenario. If I end up having to pay for frequent daycare for two Havanese, do I still want a second? So far, the answer is YES, but with some planning  I want two Havanese because I just love them and I can't wait to get to know a second one. If they play together, it'll be a bonus.


Sounds like you have the right attitude and have really thought things through. I wish you the best if you decide to pursue getting a second Havanese!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Getting another dog may work in this situation while they are young and play together more, however there is no guarantee that they are going to play that much with each other when they get older. Mine played together as puppies but not any more. I would keep that in mind when considering a second dog. IMO a second dog is more work no matter how you look at it. I would only get a second dog if I wanted it, not because I thought my other dog did, or that I thought it would somehow mean less work for me.


Plus the science is pretty clear that a second dog does not solve real separation anxiety, (it is more likely to screw up the second dog) if that is what is going on... which brings us back to the need to a good VETERINARY behaviorist (because drugs are almost always a necessary part of treatment with TRUE separation anxiety) to figure out exactly what is going on and make appropriate recommendations based on a lot more information than we have available.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I do want another Havanese! I was ready to start pursing it before covid, but then the covid puppy boom kind of made me wary. But, this is what I do. When it comes to big things, I'm not confident in my decisions so I start thinking of all the stuff I've put off, like like finishing our fence, and the upcoming bill for his teeth cleaning, and they become excuses for not doing it. Sundance will do very well with another dog, there's not even a question. Just yesterday he was in heaven because we have started using a neighborhood groomer who works from home and she has a dog. As soon as I go for it, I'll be kicking myself for waiting so long.


That was true with Kodi too. There was no question in my mind that he woukd accept a puppy. It was always whether the stars were aligned for ME and my family before pulling the trigger. For that matter, I didn't worry about Pixel and another puppy either... I just wasn't even THINKING about another puppy! LOL!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Yeah true separation anxiety will probably screw up the other dog, and honestly any negative behaviors. Some are more tolerable than others. Roxie hasn't started barking at the doorbell yet, but I anticipate it because she's so vocal. Oliver ONLY barks at perceived threats. She barks for the fun of it. It shocked me the first time I heard it. I was like, "Is something wrong?" Nope, I just want a bite of your sandwich. She HAS been a benefit to training him because she's so exuberant, food motivated, and things click with her super fast. He will actually imitate what she's gotten praise for, even if he doesn't want the treat. 

All this said, I used to always have two dogs. I do think with a breed that tends to not enjoy being alone, a buddy can be a benefit. IF this is what YOU want. (we waited to get another dog after our lab and whippet died in quick succession because we couldn't even think about it, plus little kids. But those two dogs were best friends). Generally speaking, Oliver never had separation anxiety. He cried for ten minutes when I left and then he was fine. We just don't leave him alone for more than a few hours, and I feel guilty anyway, considering how close he is with us. The recent experiment when we left them alone for 2 hours was fine. I was expecting a traumatic experience because he hasn't been home alone since MARCH. I kept them separate though, with her in her pen and him in the gated off area I have. When we came home they were both sleeping, and pounced on us only after they SAW us. Just to let us know how miserable they were, kind of like how your kid flips out when you come home after leaving them with a babysitter. And the babysitter confirms they've been just fine the whole time LOL.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Technically he has isolation distress, though the caution still applies. Our pet sitter leaves him home with her own dog when she picks up her daughter from school. He was really good, he was actively waiting but he didn’t get stressed out or pace or pee like he has in the past. But, he had the benefit of the calm, older dog as a companion.

We did work with someone to address it and set up some good management tools. At a some point it became easier to rely on daycare and his progress hit a plateau, which is completely my fault. We tend to work on it for a while and then we don’t make a point to leave him alone consistently so he backslides a little, and then we work on it again. The problem is when we reach that spot where it feels better managed and he’s making slow progress, that’s when I need to push through and instead I tend to become complacent.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Melissa Woods said:


> Oliver ONLY barks at perceived threats. She barks for the fun of it. It shocked me the first time I heard it. I was like, "Is something wrong?" Nope, I just want a bite of your sandwich.


Haha, Sundance rarely barks aside from the door, but he has surprised me with a bark for food before. Just recently I forgot I told him to wait for a piece of beef and he gave a little bark/whine 10 minutes later. I'd completely forgotten!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Desi only barks occasionally at this point. He does make the cutest squeaking sound when he wakes up in the morning and wants out of his crate. It’s more like a chirp then a bark, lol.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Faithb said:


> Desi only barks occasionally at this point. He does make the cutest squeaking sound when he wakes up in the morning and wants out of his crate. It's more like a chirp then a bark, lol.


That is SO cute. Oliver cries if he wants to go out or whatever. It's like a sad little whine. LOL Roxie is just assertive. And yet, very cuddly. She barks to sit on your lap! It's like, of course I love you, but you don't need to DEMAND to cuddle with me.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

EvaE1izabeth I’m so impressed with your forethought and seeking out feedback! As you know, with 3 of this lovable breed, we’re just a little biased. When we adopted Cotton we met in Seattle with his foster mom who was from Bellingham. JoJo stopped playing with other dogs and wasn’t as peppy in general. The vet said she thought he was having isolation issues because I couldn’t take him to work anymore at that point. We missed the Havanese energy and were pleasantly surprised when JoJo and Cotton met in the parking lot. They sniffed each other for a few seconds and started playing! That was the final assessment and Cotton was ours😋 Even if JoJo didn’t play with Cotton we had seen videos after his rescue and read reports of 2 previous owners complaintsmthat he was too energetic and bouncy😱 Despite his issues from being abused, his energy and bounce was exactly what we were looking for. We’ve now had Jodie 1 1/2 years and we can’t imagine ever going back to just one Havanese. Cotton is now 11 and he and Jodie still play together on and off all day and night. She keeps JoJo on his toes too! He’s only able to waddle but Jodie keeps him waddling as much and as fast as possible. I know we’ve been very fortunate and you seem very clear about what you want and the realties that come with it. I wish you joy as you continue your process💜


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