# Advice Please - Augie is Sick



## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

When others post questions when their pups are ill, I usually know what I would do if it were my pup. However, here I am, Augie is sick and I wonder if it is an emergency that I need to be hauling him to the ER vet an hour away since this is a holiday weekend.....of course. It isn't so easy for me to see the thing to do when I am involved in the middle of the situation.  

Yesterday, when DH brought him back in from his first potty of the day, he said 'Augie needs a butt bath'. He required two more butt baths that morning, one in the afternoon, and nothing again until his 10 p.m. outing before bed. That one was worrisome as there was blood in it, not huge amounts but enough to run down his hind end fur. He ate nothing during the day, but drink water a few times. Mostly laid on the couch. He did try to hump Finn in the evening, and he trotted outside for his potty breaks with his usual bouncy gait. He was more quiet during the night - he usually roams between couch, chair, his crate, but last night he was parked on the couch the whole night. His nose and foot pads not too warm so I don't think a fever. Had he had another bloody diarrhea episode last night, I was prepared to haul him to the ER vet. I had taken a bath and was ready to go!

This morning on his potty trip outside, he had diarrhea again down his fur, I did not see the red blood, although there could have been some in it. More mucus-like than before I think. He has had no accidents in the house where this has been like a diarrhea that couldn't wait. I am not seeing a deterioration is his behavior, but he isn't improving either. 

He did have his Rabies vacc. on May 16. I have read where reactions can occur 2-3 weeks later and even up to 45 days later. He has been doing really well, full of energy and spunk. I hate seeing him down like this. 

Any thoughts?


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

I am sorry that Augie is not feeling well. Lizzie used to get mucus diarrhea with flecks/streaks of blood in it and our vet told us that small amounts of blood in the diarrhea is not an emergency. The intestinal tract is irritated. If it is all blood than it is. I would watch him and maybe fast him (which it sounds like he is doing himself) to let his tummy settle. Write down his symptoms and times of his diarrhea so you remember.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

Both of mine had this in April. It was awful. A trip to the vet and some flagyl totally fixed it. He said it was inconclusive as to what it was.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

Does diarhea have fo smell? It could be giardia or coccoidosi which is usually springtime thing. Vet shod do fecal sample. Roki had giardia and we kied nasty guys with Panacur


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

another day like this and I'd take him in. These are sold in a lot of stores. http://www.chewy.com/dog/plato-eos-turkey-pumpkin-dog-treats/dp/43878


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## marlowe'sgirl (Jun 17, 2010)

It's not a lot of blood (bright red is most likely hemorrhoids/lower GI tract irritation; coffee ground like dark blood is upper GI/stomach) so I wouldn't go with an emergency. He's still drinking water, which is critical. If he wasn't, I'd be much more concerned about getting him IV fluids. Also, he's not completely lethargic and is up and going on walks which is also reassuring. I think you can wait until morning. Go first thing to get, most likely, antibiotics. Try to get him to eat very bland food and keep him hydrated. Poor guy. Hope he feels better


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks all, for your responses. The poo wasn't particularly smelly yesterday. The one this morning was worse, however, as far as smelly. But I didn't see the bright red blood, and he has only gone once today. Still not peppy, but will jump up onto the chair to sit on my lap. And when I look at him in his face and eyes, he doesn't look 'sick' to me. We do live along a 'slough' - it is for drainage in this valley. Lots of wildlife in it and along it, although we always take them out on leash and I haven't caught him eating anything, but something could have gotten on his feet and he licked it off. Before this diarrhea started, he had a couple of days of itching, and I have been combing a lot of hair out of him, so attributed the itching to spring blowing of coat? But I am still wondering about the recent Rabies vacc. Maybe never know unless the diarrhea continues and it tests positive for one of the conditions mentioned above. Just trying to keep him quiet, and Finn away so he doesn't bug him. I hope we don't get to go through it with Finn too. Ugh.

I do appreciate your responses. I will look for those treat thingies, Dave. I did try to give him a little pumpkin yesterday. He wasn't having it! Augie may be pretty mellow and laid back, but he also can be very stubborn. He hasn't acted as if he is in pain. It has been raining here all weekend. Dark and gloomy. He has been acting how this weather is making me feel. No zip!

Again, thank you!


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## Lila (Apr 9, 2013)

I hope he feels better soon


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

No constructive suggestions or advice to give, but just want to say I hope Augie is feeling better soon.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

I cooked him some white rice....and he is eating it. Don't want to give him too much until I see how he tolerates it. But this is so good to see him interested in eating!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Just reading this now... Hope Augie is feeling better soon!!!


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## RickR (Feb 15, 2007)

Feel better Augie.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Hope Augie is feeling better this morning!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

How is Augie doing today? I hope its not a reaction to the shot. Can you get a good stool sample for the vet? Give him a kiss from me.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I hope to hear word soon. I'm worry about poor Augie!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

just seeing this! Glad he is eating some rice!! Get better soon Augie!!!


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## Lila (Apr 9, 2013)

How's Augie doing today? Hope he's better.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

The boy ate a bit last night, but really isn't interested in eating today. Even canned when I opened two different kinds. Or the rice. But I found a little puke on the floor this morning with rice in it, so knew it was his. He did go poo this morning but it is more formed and I did not see blood. He is acting pretty Ok, but a little more subdued than normal, but he doesn't seem to be in pain, no panting or fast breathing, doesn't feel feverish, his eyes look good. Just not interested in eating or drinking much. The vet I am not nuts about is working today. This is a two-vet practice. If our regular vet had been in, I would have taken him in. So far, it is self limiting, in that Finn shows no signs of being sick. I also opened new bag of food for him recently too. So there are a couple of things that happened recently that concerned only him and not Finn. When I took him out to potty, he was interested in exploring and licking water off the leaves of plants (we have had rain for days here) and sniffing, like he always is. His tummy doesn't feel hard or distended. And the bloody diarrhea stopped. He went once yesterday and once today so far. He hasn't eaten much of anything though. But I would think if he was bleeding inside, that would be coming out, eating or not. Just keeping a close eye on him for any negative/worrisome change, aside from not eating. 

Thanks for thinking of my boy. He is such a sweet boy.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

Having delt with lots of bloody bottoms my recommendation is to take a stool sample ASAP to the vet. They can rule out anything and everything. Poop can tell a lot about what's going on in their bellies.


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

Sending get well vibes to Augie!


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## Momo means Peach (Jun 7, 2011)

Sending good and positive thoughts Augie's way.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Thank you for the good thoughts for my Augie.  

All of a sudden this evening, he seemed to start feeling better. He got on the rug in front of the front door and waited for Dad to come home from work. He instigated a game of keep away with me and a wresting session with brother Finn. When I threw the ball down the hall for Finn to fetch, Augie joined in the fun. He ate his chicken and rice dinner that I cooked especially for him. So, he seems to be on the mend. It is very unusual for him to have diarrhea - I think he had it once as a pup when I unwittingly gave him too many treats during his puppy classes. Will see what tomorrow brings. He never had another poo sample today to collect and take to vet. 

Thanks for the positive thoughts and advice.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Keep giving him the the Chicken/Rice to let his stomach/gut rest. He probably got into something outside.


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## marlowe'sgirl (Jun 17, 2010)

Glad to hear he's doing so much better! My Hav occasionally will eat found food on our walk - I catch him and he drops it but he get a bite or two. Sometimes he'll have a day of diarrhea, but it passes. I hope that's all it was for Augie. Then, you may not even need antibiotics - or the vet bill.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Thats good to hear I hope he continues to feel better.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks all! 

I found no pile of vomit on the floor this morning. And he ate his chicken and rice right down. So things are looking up, I think. He still is not drinking much that I have seen. I poured quite a bit of diluted broth on his rice and chicken. He licks water from the leaves outside on our potty trips. I don't know what it is about the water bowl. I have tried several different ones. I tried ice cubes. I guess I will try a saucer with a couple small pieces of chicken in it to entice him to lick in it and maybe he will continue licking it up.


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## Caroline (Oct 9, 2012)

Linda,
Just reading this and glad to hear Augie is feeling better. My Lily (a poodle mix) developed hemorrhagic gastroenteritis about 36 hrs after a rabies vaccine. She is otherwise a very healthy dog. It was terrible- massive diarrhea with huge amounts of frank blood. She was very sick and wound up at the emergency vet with fluids, antibiotics. She had a mild reaction the year before with a distemper vaccine. Her first rabies was in the shelter so I have no idea if she had a reaction there, and if it was a mild reaction, they probably would not have noticed as it was a high kill inner city shelter. I really have no idea how many rabies she has had, as she was stray...so she could also be way over- vaccinated. That may have contributed.

Both my conventional vet and holistic vet were convinced it was a rabies reaction and it was written up and sent to the company. They will also write a waiver when she is due in 3 years again. As far as I am concerned, she will get no more vaccines of any kind. If I wasn't home when she first started having symptoms, it probably would have not been a good outcome. Pretty intense. 

Their reactions can get worse each time, so if you think he has good protection, I would be inclined to err on the side of caution. I don't mean to scare you, and his situation is a little different than Lily's.....less intense and longer time period after the shot...but I think you're on the right track at least investigating whether it could be related. 

Good luck. Oh, and we had good luck with Lily when she was recuperating with small, frequent amounts of chicken baby food. But it sounds like Augie is making progress.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Thank you for relating your story, Caroline. Augie did have a mild reaction in the past with Parvo/Distemper. We have gotten titers since then on those. But with the law requiring Rabies, I went ahead and took him in for that. I will indeed discuss this with our vet, as it is my hunch as well, that this may be a result of the vaccine. Isn't HGE caused by stress? And vaccines stress their systems. Scary, for sure. What makes me suspicious is that, so far at least, Finn hasn't shown any symptoms of this. If it was viral or bacterial, as close as the two of them are and with Finn's nose up Augie's rear, I would think he would have gotten it too....unless it is still in incubation stage, but it has been over three days since Augie first showed signs of illness and Finn is still fine. 

Augie drug me on a walk this morning, so he definitely seems to be feeling better.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

So glad to hear that Augie is better! Kodi has had only two bouts of diarrhea, one last winter, which we know was a Clostridium infection and had to be treated with abx. The other was RIGHT when we left on vacation for a week in the travel trailer!!! So we weren't near any vet we know, and like Augie, while he was a LITTLE under the weather, he wasn't truly and obviously sick the way he was with Clostridium. (where he was in obvious, bad pain... he cried all night for two nights!) 

So with the bout on vacation, we handled it the way you did... just watching him carefully, withholding food for 24 hours, and then introducing food with just boiled chicken, a small amount of pumpkin and white rice. I also started him on a half Pepcid each day, as the vet had recommended this after his obstruction, and I knew it couldn't hurt him. In a few days, he obviously felt fine, and his stools were normal. BUT... I made the mistake of trying to transition him back to regular food too fast, and the diarrhea came back. I put him back on the chicken and rive, and kept him on that for another full week, then transitioned him back to his regular food and he was fine. When I talked to the vet about it later, she said it's common for people to try to transition back to their regular food too soon. So don't make the same mistakeI did!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks for the caution, Karen. Augie loves chicken so I am sure he will be happy with that diet for a week! . He gave no indication that he was in pain - I was watching for that among other things. I will continue to watch him carefully. The main thing I was freaked out about was the blood down his hind end. If that had continued, we would have made the trip to the ER vet.


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## Caroline (Oct 9, 2012)

So like my Lily, Augie also had a reaction to Parvo/distemper! Kind of interesting. 

From what I understand, they don't know exactly what causes HGE but stress is thought to be a factor. It's also associated with warmer months and this happened last July during a hot spell. The vet thought the vaccine overtaxed her immune system and left her open to something like HGE because of the stress on the body, and the warm weather probably contributed. I really thought I was going to lose her- she went down fast. None of my animals has ever been that sick, except at the end of life. 

So glad to hear Augie is feeling better  One positive thing that came out of Lily's ordeal was that I did a lot of reading about vaccines afterwards, and now make more informed decisions. So in the long run, every animal in my house is healthier. 

How the bulk of a profession can discount the solid research that is out there on vaccines is beyond me. They should be singing it from the rooftops at every client visit. Instead most people are kept in the dark.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

glad to hear this Linda,. Good for you Caroline. :rockon:


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

I should touch bases with Finn's breeder. Finn's sister, who the breeder kept, got really sick with a hemorrhagic colitis. They were concerned for a time that they would lose her and she was hospitalized for several days. I don't know as they ever determined what happened; although, I think they did consider the possibility that someone threw something poisonous into their yard. Now I am curious to know if she had any vaccinations beforehand. 

To keep subjecting animals to these vaccines repeatedly and cost them their health or life is immoral, IMO. Here, you need the Rabies vacc for a dog license and are subject to a fine if you don't have one. I have three years now before the next one is due. I will be figuring out our options, as I don't want to subject him to another one in the event this was caused by the vaccine and the next reaction could be worse. 

Is there a test that would determine whether it was the vaccine that caused this? Would there be some value in his blood that would be out of whack? Or would I have had to have his stool tested at the time of the diarrhea to rule out other causes? 

Wowza, he is laying at my feet and is a bit gassy. Phew!!!!! Augie!!!! He never has gas. He is not prone to GI upsets.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I agree,. tough to tell if it was the rabies shot. Do you use probiotics Linda?


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

davetgabby said:


> I agree,. tough to tell if it was the rabies shot. Do you use probiotics Linda?


Oops, did not see this. I did for awhile. Haven't for some time.

Had Finn in to vet for ear recheck today. Augie happened to go poo just before we left, so I put it in a baggie and took it in to see if vet would check it. She said he probably ate something gross from the way the bact distribution appeared. He is doing much better. He loves his boiled chicken and white rice meals. It would have been nice if my kids had gotten as excited over their meals when I cooked for them when they were home. But it never failed there was one in the bunch who would whine 'But I don't like this'..... ACK And Augie is still getting excited when he has gotten the same thing for several meals in a row!!!!!

And Finn's ears are looking good....for now.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

good stuff Linda, yeah dogs are more appreciative than kids. I bet they'd love for you to home cook for them. lol :boink: Just got this today 
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/vet-distemper-dog/


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## Caroline (Oct 9, 2012)

That's a great article, Dave- thanks. You always post such informative links!

Dr. Schultz spoke in this area last year and I wasn't able to go and I am so sorry I missed it. Would love to see him in person. Great work he does.

Linda- I laughed at your post about the kids. I think that's part of why I cook for my dogs- it doesn't matter what it is- they always gobble it up! Although I do have to say that now that my kids are out on their own, and buying their own groceries, they are much more open-minded about food choices :tea:


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