# Charlie's crate soiling saga..I think it's a health issue



## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

Something is just not right with him. I'm sooooo aggravated..I waited all day for the vet to call with the results, and it turns out the front desk miscommunicated with the back and only put him in for one test and not the cytology and giardia, and the vet discarded the sample when he found it. Soooooo, I need to bring in another sample tomorrow.

Meanwhile, Charlie's stools are getting looser...and he is gassy.

I brought his crate up here in my room this evening..he was laying in their chewing away on his flossy, when he started to bark and scratch...had hubby take him out who quickly returned with him saying he only had to pee. Ya right I said..you didn't even give him time. Two minutes later, Charlie starts barking and scratching like crazy again. I took him out immediately, he ran around sniffing and pooped...loose again.

I'm so pissed at the vet, but I know errors happen. It's just that I obviously want to get to the bottom of this asap.

Still wondering about the Solid Gold..and trying to get up the will to homecook his food. See, I HATE cooking..even for my FAMILY let alone home cooked food for a dog.

Maybe this is just an entire life changing thing for me and the whole family will ultimately benefit??

I did practice holding him closely restrained to me a couple times today and comforting him, trying to get him used to being held/confined for brushing. Also got some brushing done. What I couldn't do while holding him, I had hubby do while I held him snuggly...he did ok!

This forum is so awesome..I swear I'd have been advertising poor Charlie on craigslist if I hadn't found this forum! I'm actually now motivated to make him into the best doggie ever!

Julie


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Hang in there!  It will get better--hopefully very quickly once you find out what's wrong with the poor guy. At least Charlie is trying to let you know he needs to go.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

You may want to try a new dog food. What works for one puppy doesn't work for all others. My girls are on solid gold, I had them on wellness before that. I know Eukanuba (dora's puppy food) was not good her and caused loose stools like crazy for Dora. I have heard some of the high protein food like evo is good and will cause hard stools. But if it is that loose and you aren't feed him lots of treats, I would get back to the vet.... sounds like a bug or something.

Definetly do the burshing in small amounts of time and he will get used to it.

Glad you have found a place! Lots of great havanese people here with lots of answers!

Amanda


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

It sounds as if Charlie *is* trying to be a good boy.  He's trying to let you know he has to go out, and quick! It sounds as if he just can't help it. We can imagine how we'd feel if we had to go NOW, but couldn't let ourselves out. I hope your vet can give you answers soon. Hopefully he can give you some medicine that could help Charlie's problem.

Boiling a chicken breast is pretty easy. I just drop it in boiling water for 10-15 minutes (depending on size) and if its not pink in the center when you cut it, its done!:biggrin1: I'm lazy, so I just cook minute rice. Whenever I've had a dog with diarrhea (and no other medical problem), it seemed to do the trick. I cook enough rice for several meals and a chicken breast will go for days. Now I've learned that a little yogurt with live cultures helps put good bacteria in the stomach. I hope your vet's office can give you answers tomorrow. You'll probably have another "poopy" night ahead, but hopefully you can get some answers soon. We're pulling for little Charlie and you!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Hang in there! Hopefully you will have all your answers soon!!!!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Julie, it sure sounds like Charlie is on the right path. He was probably scratching & crying in the Kitchen but you could not hear him. Hopefully the vet will get to the bottom of it. I would demand a RUSH result from the vet since they screwed up!! Keep us up to date.
Laurie


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Bummer the vet screwed up!

I really do think something is wrong with either the food or a GI infection/problem and I DO believe this is fixable.

If you decide to do the homemade food, what I did was buy one of those small chickens, boil it for an hour and take it all off the bone, chop it up and add the rice. I might just start with something really simple, like 3 ingredients, chicken, rice, and a veggie.

I read about a great tip here on the forum...I can't remember from who, but she makes it up and freezes it in muffin tins, so she only takes a small amount out of the freezer at a time. When I made it, it lasted about 3 weeks. That way, you won't have to cook often.  Cooking is NOT my favorite thing to do either! But search the forum from threads on homemade dog food, there are some great tips on here and a ton of info to sift through on the internet.

But maybe it will be a simple fix, like a course of antibiotics?

Kara


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Julie,

Casper has been a challenge also, he is alpha and wants to do just what he wants not what we want. Last night he decide to chase a car:frusty: I live at a dead end street, thought it was safe here for him. But NO he chases the neighbors car to his drive way and starts barking at him:jaw: So it is always something....

But what I have learned is he really wants to please us, so if we can get accros to him the behavior we want, he tries really hard to do it. 

With the grooming- somethings working for us; we have to brush Casper once and twice a day to avoid matts and we learned is put him up on a table that he can't get down from,use treats when good, use choker collar to hold his head, split big matts, then pull apart. Shave stomach area, can't keep unmatted.

I found this forum to be a big help also


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Don't know if this will work for Havs, but it works well for babies w/loose stools. 

Boil plain ol' regular rice, drain and save the cooking water. Using cheesecloth as a strainer, squeeze the rice to remove as much moisture as possible, add whatever you squeeze out to the saved water (you can throw out the rice). Cool the water, allow him to drink as much as possible.

Hope this is helpful.

~Leslie


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## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

*He did it again last night..not a good night!*

Well, first, I had Charlie in my room with me as I mentioned in a previous post. Then, he had to eat later than normal as he hadn't had his second meal yet because his first was so late due to his early grooming (my lack of planning)

After he ate, it was about 9:20. Hubby was downstairs..I took Charlie out and he wouldn't go. Brought him in..hubby promises to watch him and not take an eye off of him and keep taking him out till he goes, then bring Charlie back up to me. He pinky swears.

I go upstairs...trusting hubby, and fall asleep. I sleep soundly until 3am, when awakened by my puking 3 year old daughter. I get her taken care of...and then lay down and say to hubby "where's Charlie? he slept through this?"

He says "I left him downstairs"...ok, at this point, I'm ready to shove hubby in the crate and let Charlie sleep with me. I was LIVID...he knows how hard I'm trying with this dog. and to BOOT he tells me Charlie never pooped before bed, after eating. I said that is impossible...and YOU are going down there now to take him out and YOU will clean the crate if he soiled it.

So he goes and takes him out, and charlie does both...and the crate was clean. This was at 3:30 am

Matt takes Charlie out again at 5:30am, he just pees, no poop. I go down at 8:30 am, and Charlie is laying in a crate of poop.

I take Charlie outside, and he is having small bits of diarrhea...so something is up.

I brought another stool to the vet and asked them nicely to PLEASE not screw up this time and to call me asap as Charlie's stool is getting worse.

Charlie and Danny are at daycare right now, and charlie will get a bath and brush while there...they are watching him for any loose stools.

The ONLY reason I sent him to daycare is because he and Danny are getting their obedience training today.

I'm rethinking any daycare at all for Charlie until I get his housebreaking under control...but thought it's ok to send him today since it may be he needs medicine and nothing I can do with the housetraining until the medicine kicks in.

Plus, frankly, I'm pooped! no pun intended....and have a sick little girl on my hands who I have to take to the doctor in 10 minutes.

Julie


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Oh boy Julie, I feel for you  I hope the doctor doesn't mess up this next test, so that you can see if there is a medical problem with Charlie - like a bug or something. As for the rice and hamburger/chicken, or even plain canned pumpkin - it helps a lot. Give it a try because if the vet prescribes something it may take a while to kick in. This way, you could at least help your Charlie feel a bit more comfortable. How big is his crate? Sometimes when it gives them more than just the room to turn they will potty in one end. Please keep us posted. Good vibes to you and Charlie.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Julie, 
Sorry to hear about this morning, I was really hoping that the first part of the story would stick. It sounds like Hubby is just not giving him enough time to go potty. They pee right away but my guys need to walk around a little bit before they will poop. I really do think that he is most likely sick, and once that is taken care of he should do better. Logan had very loose stool a few weeks ago with lots of blood in it. Although his cultures came back negative they gave him 7 days of Metronidazole - it worked & he was better in a day or two. I would ask the vet for it!! It sounds like Mommy is going to have to be the one doing all the training, the fact that he was clean at 3:30 was a good sign!! I am sure that he is trying very hard!!
Laurie


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Julie- I was afraid you'd have another "poopy" night until this thing with Charlie gets treated. But then to have a sick daughter on top of it! uke: I always say that "Mother's Day" ought to be a year with all the work we do. 

I do hope you get some answers from your vet. Laurie is right....often a course of metronidazole can help...so ask your vet. Also, the bland diet routine with a little pumpkin (whole canned pumpkin, not pumpkin pie mix) can make things better. The main thing is to relieve the irritation in Charlie's intestinal tract. Often a vet will recommend withholding food completely for 24 hours to give things a rest. Demand some answers and treatment from your vet today. Charlie and you need a break! Good luck!


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Yes that works really well . You can also boil potatoes till they are well done - preferably a yukon gold . They are so nutritious and you save the water from them and add a chicken broth ..


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

So sorry to hear that things are not resolved and you now have another component to all this a sick child as well .. 
Hopefully the vet will get to the bottom of all this soon .. sometimes life is like this - we feel like the sky is falling .. The truth is people & pups get sick .. 
Just like everytime my son & daughter in law got had a trip scheduled his son would get sick .. Now they only buy refundable tickets .. 
I am jus a little curious - does the vet not consult with you and just lets you drop of a sample of stool .. I would think by now he would want to see the dog in person .. We cannnot do that here - they insist on bringing the dog and the poop .. 
It sounds like it is definetly not a behaviour problem or spite maybe it is either dietary or he may have some type of virus or parasite ..


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## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

*His tests are normal so far...*

I am taking him in the morning for bloodwork. Also, she gave me a prescription for a 7 day course of flagyl due to his diarrhea. Also started him on Eukenuba ?sp low residue diet for puppies tonight per her recommendation.

He did go to daycare today, and had a nice bath and brush...(as he soiled his crate last night) but vet recommends NO daycare until we get to the bottom of this..we need to rule out that he could be getting it from there.

At any rate, met with financial planner tonight who says doggie daycare is ridiculous when I'm home all day so I may stop it any way..guess thats another thread for another message board huh? LOL

Charlie is currently sleeping..it is 10:35. He's been out three times since supper at 6..and we'll take him out again at 11:15 or so.

Praying for a NON poopy night!!

Julie


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

Keep us all posted on what is going on with him.Poor little guy. Its a shame when they get sick like that and I am suprized that the vet didnt ask for a stool sample.At least he see the vet in the morning good luck our praysers are with you and charlie


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Hope tonight is a better night ,,


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Julie, hope last night went better!! Have a feeling that you really wont see a big change in the behavior until the vet establishes what the problem is and gets it corrected. Let us know.
Laurie


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

Hope you can get to the bottom of this....poor little guy. We used a little travel crate on our night stand when Izzy was younger. She could see us and I could hear her if she needed to go out. I think it was more calming just to know we were close and she only asked to go out once during the night for about a week, then made it through the night. Is there any chance the problem is from nerves? I may have missed some earlier posts on your predicament, so excuse my questions if you've already covered this aspect.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I hope last night went better! And the vet can offer you some answers soon. Maybe the antibiotic will fix the problem? **fingers crossed**

Kara


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## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

*HE MADE IT THROUGH THE NIGHT!*

Well, he made it! He was out last at 11:15pm, then at 5:30 am..and did fine and I just got up and took him out at 8:30 and his crate was dry..he seemed happy. I take him for the blood this morning.

All of his stool tests were normal, but I question that..I think the Flagyl he started yesterday is already making him feel better.

Anxious to get the blood results.

Julie


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Thank goodness!!! Thats great news Julie. It WILL get better & it will be worth it, trust us!! Does that mean i can quit looking to buy him on craigslist.com!! :laugh:
:biggrin1: :clap2: :cheer2: :cheer2: :whoo:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Shannon! I was watching on Craigslist for him TOO! ound: :behindsofa: :spy: :doh: :fencing: 

I'm SO happy he had a good night  You know, he probably feels so much better too waking up to a clean crate. Tummy aches are no fun  Poor fella!

Kara


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## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

*He's eating grass..*

My hubby said Charlie is still eating grass so he thinks he still doesn't feel well. Does that mean anything? eating grass?

Off to the vet..will update later.

Julie


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I've heard that when they eat grass it means they have a tummy ache? Not sure if that is a wives tale or not.

I know Gucci eats grass periodically and it concerns my husband too, though she doesn't do it often.

Let us know how the vet visit goes!

Kara


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Is that a challenge Kara!:boxing: :fencing: :crutch: All i can say is BOTH my dogs LOVE to eat grass. They think they are cows. Only if they eat a lot do they get sick(i try to limit how much they graze). I used to think that eating it meant they werent feeling well, but i know thats not true in my case. They have always loved grass. But they will throw up if eats too much!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Julie that is great news!! :cheer2: Your pup really is trying to please you  Keep the faith and you will see it gets better - these are great dogs!! 

Kara and Julie, I wonder about the grass thing too. Oreo at times will get on out there and start pulling grass and chewing - I tell him NO and he will listen ( temporarily), because I am not sure if it makes them sick or not. Besides I don't want to risk there being any pesticides on there either. I wonder if anyone knows the answer?


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Good job charlie!!!!:whoo: :whoo: I am so glad it was a good night!
My guys only eat grass when it seems like they have an upset stomach, as they eat it , then throw up twice and then are fine. Dont know if it is proven at all, but mine dont normally throw up outside, unless they have eaten grass. 
Julie - let us know as soon as you get back from the vets - I am so pleased!!
I bet Charlie was happy to wake up clean too :bathbaby: 
Laurie


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## Jan D (Mar 13, 2007)

Havee loves grass too! He can have 1 blade of grass in his mouth and it looks like he's chomping on a 2 lb steak!


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## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

*Vet's screwed up AGAIN*

I took Charlie in for his bloodwork, and the guy brought him back out, then came out and told me they forgot to get the other test and they had to stick him AGAIN. Second screw up in two days...third all together. I was so furious. I got a long time with the manager who really was concerned and apologetic and I KNOW he was furious and was going to follow up.

I got a $90 credit as well.

They did a urine test for free on Charlie just to check that too.

So, now awaiting the blood tests....

Julie


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## Jan D (Mar 13, 2007)

Glad you had a good night with Charlie!!!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Yikes, you might want to consider changing vets once this is over!! Do they say how long you have to wait for the results? Have they given you any idea what they are looking for?
Laurie


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## Sunnygirl (Jun 1, 2007)

For what it's worth, my puppy eats grass (or at least attempts to eat grass) all the time, and I don't think he has an upset stomach. He also wants to eat rocks, twigs, sticks, bark and cicadas. At first I was worried because I've heard dogs eat grass when their stomachs are upset, but I've now decided he's just like my human babies, who had to have everything and anything in their mouths. I'm so glad to hear that Charlie did well last night. I hope you start having some better luck with your vet.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Julie I agree with Laurie, you might want to look around a look for a different vet as an option. You could call around, and kind of interview them before completely switching over. I hope you have better results this time.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Asta used to eat grass when he felt ill and so does Cosmo . Usually an upchuck is not far behind ..
My mom used to say they eat it as a laxative . Hmmn not sure about that one ..
I was concerned about the pesticides on the lawn as well - not here in Marin as I have contol over my grass but when we lived at one golf community in the desert - beautiful green grass on the golf courses was no 1 - not the health of humans or the pets .. The stuff they used was very toxic !! Maintence workers wore respirators and were fully covered from head to toe .. really made you cautious about letting your dog go on the gass .. 
So happy he is doing better - maybe you should think about a different vet . He seemed awfully blase to me .. 
Good news ! Keep us posted .:biggrin1:


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

Dogs do eat grass when there tummys feel upset that is normal once they eat it they normally will get sick and some time it does help there tummys/ I would for sure change vets if they make that kind of errors no reason for that once I can see but 3 times not good you might even want to get a second vet to check him out just to be safe


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

That's *such* great news about Charlie! It sounds like the Flagyl (metronidazole) is doing some good. Sometimes things don't always show up on every stool sample, and that's why the vet often prescribes anyway. I hope he continues to do better. I'd still keep him crated next to you at night or at least where you can hear him easily so you can hear if he's in distress. I wouldn't just do this when he's sick, as you never know when something will hit during the night. We'll keep our fingers crossed that Charlie is on the mend! :biggrin1:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Good news to hear there is already progress. We will cross our fingers that those health test come back too. I would seriously consider switching vets since these are the mistakes you are seeing.... what goes on when they take the blood samples behind the doors... yikes!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Julie, how is our Charlie doing today? Been thinking about you guys!!
Laurie


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## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

*His blood work was all normal*

Well, Charlie had another good night last night. His blood work was all normal. One liver enzyme was elevated but the vet said that is expected as he is a puppy and somthing about his growing bones. His urine was normal too.

Stools are normal..and he is happily playing.

He does not want to sleep in our room..he barks and barks and barks...I honestly think he misses his spot in the family room next to our other dogs crate. ??

I'm torn about the whole vet situation. I LOVE the doctors...especially Dr. Hatch..I'm VERY confident in her and really have bonded with her between my other dogs..she had to put one to sleep for me. She is just wonderful...it's some of the staff that are plain idiots. The manager was HORRIFIED the other day at what had happened. This hospital has an excellent reputation in the community. When I complained to the girl at the front desk she immediately put me in a room and wanted me to speak with the manager.

But then I think, ok, if three errors were made in regards to my kids at the pediatrician, I'd be outta there!

Just not sure if there is a "better" animal hospital around. We live in southern NH.

Little Charlie is outside playing with Daddy and Jacob right now. I'm waiting for him to come in and he'll get a brushing.

Julie


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Julie, I am so glad that Charlie had a good night last night. It looks like the meds are working. WE had about a week of Logan pooping in his crate last month and he got meds & is fine now too! His samples were all negative too. Maybe Charlie just had some kind of bug and is sure sounds that he is on his way to recovery!! That is really cute that he wants to be with the other pup at night. Do you trust him to be down there all night now? Maybe you could check on him in the middle of the night, take him out, but leave him down with his buddy!! Keep us up to date! Good news!!:whoo: 
Laurie


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

I'm glad he had a good night. Sometimes they do bark the first several nights to see if you will let them out(just like kids-they test their boundries). You may have to go thru a few restless nights but it will get better. It REALLY is in the best interests of the puppy to stay near you. If he has to go out during the night, do not let him play just put him right back in his crate when he is done. 
I am sure there are plenty of other people here who are going thru this now who can tell you what to expect during the night & how to best handle it.

I know it must be hard to find a good Vet that you trust. Hope all works out & keep us posted. We really want you to have a great experience with Charlie.Dont give up Julie!!


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

If you decide to put him in the other room again, maybe you can get a baby monitor so you can hear him during the night. Just my 2 cents!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Shannon, that is a great idea. This way he can be with the other dog, but you can hear if he whines to go out.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I agree - the baby monitor should work fine and you are reassured and he is wth his buddy .
As to the vet that is a dilemna - I left Asta's vet as I felt the care had deteriorated over the years . Too much turnover in staff especially the front desk and Vet techs .. It became very impersonal and people were not that attentive and really did not listen ..
Now I go to a much smaller practice -it is a 40 minute drive but it is worth it .. Only two vets and much smaller staff and everyone knows you and your dogs.. 
You have to make your own decision as to whether you stay with this vet or look for another vet but I would definetly talk to the office manager and make sure she understands your concerns .
Next time it could be a life threatening event ..


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I would be very concerned as although you love the vet - the techs are responsible for a lot of your animals care and if they are inattentive, and making mistakes, it could be trouble. I would tell the Manager & the vet that you are considering moving due to the mistakes & maybe they can assure you that they are addressing the problem. I understand when you really like the vet themselves.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

We havent heard from you in a while Julie :ear: !! How is Charlie doing? Please let us know. Hope all is well!!


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