# fully house trained?



## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

after reading so many threads here about house training, the trials & tribulations of...i wonder if mugsy will ever get it?

how many here have havs that are fully house trained?

i need to know that it's a real possibilty that someday he may actually stop the 'p&p show' on the rug.

joe


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Joe, you crack me up, but that's exactly what I would like to know too. Can't imagine a happy life with constant p&p in the wrong places. But if you're consistent they will eventually get it, that's what they say...


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Joe,I took up all rugs....it is easy to sneak a pee on a rug....and unless that scent is completely gone,they'll repeat there. Try to get one of those cleaners specially for cleaning up dog messes...

Yes-my boy is completely housebroken. He is going to be 2 in April. I really do not remember his last accident,but it has been quite awhile. I did crate him at night though until about maybe 4-6 mo.ago.He loved his crate and went in there on his own...If I were leaving for a long time during the day---I would probably crate him...but he is a good boy...just for safety I'd crate,not because of potty messes. Hang in there--Mugsy will get it:clap2:
Just be extremely diligent......I stress every word......extremely diligent. They must be watched like a hawk.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

maryam187 said:


> Joe, you crack me up, but that's exactly what I would like to know too. Can't imagine a happy life with constant p&p in the wrong places. But if you're consistent they will eventually get it, that's what they say...


i try to maintain my own sense of humour about all this too!

i have had a few dogs in my life time and they all learned about house training in a matter of days. i have had mugs for months now and there is no consistancy in his behaviour. i have tried everything i know, can think of and what i have found with research but nothing works. it's a bit frustrating cause he's a very smart dog.

the sad part is that i love the little guy and know i will never give him up so i sometimes think of a life time of being on poop patrol and it gets me down.

joe


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

julie, i shampoo the rug in the living (only inside place he goes) about twice a month with a doggie shampoo. i even fabreeze it regularly.

he does not go overnight so i know he can control it but then he will go twenty minutes after a walk, a walk where he did his business quite nicely!

joe


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Well,Joe,are you using something like Nature's Miracle? I would put that directly on the spot and it worked quite well. Hang in there--it really does get better.Like you,I had a few dogs over my lifetime,a sheltie who pottied once in my house--ever......and then Quincy.I swear to you,I thought he would never be housebroke! I could not believe how hard it was. I was using carpet shampoo though and it was not taking out the scent. I learned from that----and then kitchen rugs etc. My stinker would go in front of the door and if I wasn't looking right at him,he'd quietly turn around and go! That's when I discovered bells.My husband thought I was nuts! There is a thread on here about "ring the bell".This has saved my sanity! He drives you nuts for awhile----but both my boys ring the bell to go out to potty. I believe this helped me with Quince alot.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Kodi is 100%, and Shelby is about 98%. She will go weeks without an accident, and then pee on the floor.


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## snfager (Sep 29, 2006)

Once Miss Daisy, who was three years old this month, taught us her signals for wanting to go out and potty she hasn't had a single mishap.
I am hesitant to mention this because I know I will probably get slapped around for it but ......... One thing I have noticed, is that the majority of postings about potty training problems seem to be in regard to male dogs.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Brady is perfect. Well, he is perfect at our house. He has had a few accidents at the neighbors house when they take him to babysit, but I really believe that is because they are children (12 and 14) and don't take him out as much as he needs to go. I have to say, Brady was actually very easy to housetrain. We use bells and he tells me when he has to go. I have to say that even though he holds it for hours on end during the night with no problems, he does ring his bells every 2 hours or so to go outside when we are home. Sometimes, it is 20 minutes after a walk and he is bell ringing:suspicious:. But, I take him out and he does his thing. He is in the crate when we are out of the house, but I do completely trust him. He is just most comfortable in his crate when we are not home.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

I noticed it is easier for people with a house, yard&doggy door to house break. I have a hard time with living in an apartment on the second floor. By the time I catch the bugger having an accident, putting a leash on him, getting dressed myself, walking down the stairs, etc. he's completely clueless why I'm doing that.
It just impresses me, that these dogs are so so smart in every way other than the potty issue. Pablo had 10 accident free days in a row and I thought :whoo: he finally got it. And *whoom* he acts all clueless again for no apparent reason, kind of like: 'Huh?! Has this thing (the pad) always been here? What's this for? Ahhh, you want me to sit on it? No? OK, how about down...no? Belly???' >>>GRHHH<<<
I hope and pray that this is just a phase and I just keep watching, correcting and praising him like I did before, hoping for the breakthrough to appear soon.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Well Bogart will be 2 in May and he has been fully house trained since he was about 12-14 months. Have not had one accident yet with him, although there was the time he was sick. But that doesn't count. Brando on the other hand is 7 months old and he frequently does the P&P on my dining room rug when I'm not home. When I'm home, he always uses the pee pad in the bathroom. So today, I really took a good look at the rug and could see it's stained even though I used one of those stain removers for dogs. I just finished rolling up the rug and decided to throw it out. Now I have no carpets or rugs throughout my home. Now we'll see what happens over the next few days.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

The funny thing is Milo will never go in the house when I'm out. He will sometimes go within minutes of coming in from a *long* time out in the backyard. I simply don't get it. He did nothing in the house for weeks. i was *so* happy, then boom.

A few times he came over to me frantically telling me something. I thought he needed to go out, but no, he was letting me know he just made somewhere. He knows I get angry and upset, but still . . .

Being the cockeyed optimist I am, I'm going to think he's almost there. He'll be a year old on the 23rd and I choose to believe he's close. I want a gift from him for his birthday. ound:


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

ound: Geri, that peeing dog is funny :laugh: we should put that up in poster-size for our little smarty pants!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I can say that Jasper at 2 is completely house trained and has been so since he was 1. I believe Cash is also trained (he is 1) but I am not 100% confident with him, although it has been a few months with no mistakes.

Joe, apartment living does make it harder- is there an out of the way area you could set up as a potty area? one area in the house with pee pads that it is Ok for Mugsy to go. Our boys are trained to go in their potty room (a closed off section in our garage that they access through a doggy door) or outside.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Cooper just turned 2 last month, and only now would I say he's really house-trained. He uses a bell too, and what amazes me about him is how often he can pee. He will go all night without a problem, but then in the evening, he will ring the bell to go out every 30 minutes :frusty: and yes, once out, he will pee.

I found using the "bad boy" pants really helpful when I felt like Cooper knew he should be going out and could be holding it longer and wasn't. Maybe he didn't like the wet feeling because it seemed to make a difference when I was having him wear those in the house. Just an idea.

Beverly


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Dusty is almost two, and very rarely has an accident in the house. Then it's been when it rains and she really doesn't want to go out and get her feet wet. We had gone several months without an accident until this week on a rainy day. Then it was just once. We consider her housetrained. We don't have a doggy door, but she does let us know when she has to go out, either by ringing a bell or coming and acting like she wants something.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Maddie is 100% house trained.eace: She has been fully trained since about 9-10 months. She uses the bells to go out during the day, and if need be, the "barking paw" during the night, although that is rare (usually when she drinks too much water before bed). I can leave her alone when we leave with full run of the house. I do think it really helped that I don't work and watched her like a hawk for the first 2 months we got her. We got her at 8 months of age.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Kubrick is 9 months and has been completely potty trained since 4.5 months. I think I really lucked out with him. However, I do use a pee pad since I live in a high rise condo and there's no way that I am taking him down the elevator as often as it takes. I'm too lazy, LOL. The only times he's had an accident since 4 months (I can count three in my head) were when I was in the bedroom with the door closed for a long time and he really needed to go but I was busy and not paying attention - and he WAS trying to get my attention, I was just ignoring him like an idiot. He went on the rug those three times (spaced with months between them) but that's it. I have taken the pad up for hours at a time to train him to hold it, and he does fine with that too. He will either wait until the pad is back or I take him outside.

Regardless, I really do think I lucked out with him because even on his FIRST day at home, we were playing with him far away from his pee pad and he literally RAN to it at one point to pee, so he came to us pretty much trained. Plus, we do have all wood floors and I do think that makes a BIG difference since carpet feels like a pee pad and wood floors obviously don't. Plus, it's a lot easier to clean up wood than carpet!

I'm sure Mugsy will get it eventually! Hang in there.


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## Jan D (Mar 13, 2007)

It does get amazingly better, just hang in there.

Havee is 1 year old and I can say that he is totally housetrained. He either moans repeatedly as he walks backward, or pulls at our pants legound:when he has to go. Wee wee pads didn't work for us, he just tore them to shreds, even in a holder. We tried the cloth pads and he'd pull them out of the holder also.

I remember reading here someone saying that age 1 seems to be the time when it all falls into place, and luckily for us that has been the case. He has gotten so easy, I can't get over it!

When things weren't going as well as we had wanted a few months ago, we started treating him when he did his business outside. Maybe that helped him along!

Jan


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

That's a good point about carpets, Lina. We have mostly hardwood floors in our house, except for the bedrooms. I took up the few area rugs when we first got Maddie, since she was trained to pee pads as well as outside, and I didn't want her to get confused. I never used the pee pads. After a few weeks of no accidents, I put the rugs back. She's never once peed on the area rugs. Then again, I think she really prefers grass under her butt! :biggrin1:


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## boo2352 (Dec 18, 2006)

MacGyver was housebroken at 10 months, and we had few accidents before then. We did keep a supply of Nature's Miracle on hand at all times, though. He rings the bells to tell us he needs to go out (or sometimes that he is bored). We gave up on pee pads right away, as he just tore them to shreds. He is crated at bedtime and if we need to go out during the day.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

Missy said:


> I can say that Jasper at 2 is completely house trained and has been so since he was 1. I believe Cash is also trained (he is 1) but I am not 100% confident with him, although it has been a few months with no mistakes.
> 
> Joe, apartment living does make it harder- is there an out of the way area you could set up as a potty area? one area in the house with pee pads that it is Ok for Mugsy to go. Our boys are trained to go in their potty room (a closed off section in our garage that they access through a doggy door) or outside.


i live in a condo and have a front door and small front yard like a house does. i tried the pee pads and mugs thinks they are toys, he runs around the house with them and then chews them to little pieces.
if he has a signal that he needs to go then i have not figured it out yet.
my last dog was a border collie and she would just stare at me when she had to go.

joe


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

Jan D said:


> It does get amazingly better, just hang in there.
> 
> Havee is 1 year old and I can say that he is totally housetrained. He either moans repeatedly as he walks backward, or pulls at our pants legound:
> 
> ...


giving him treats outside when he goes has been the biggest help so far.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Hang in there, Joe, and don't give up!

Mine are both potty-trained. Lincoln was easier, and trained by 7 mos. Scout was slower, but he was finally trained by 1 year. I am relieved. Nothing more aggravating than the "p&p show" as you put it! ound:


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Lina, that's a good point with the wooden floors. Since we have carpet all over the place it's harder to get rid of the scents too. I use distilled vinegar, which is non-toxic and removes the scent just fine. He never seems to pee on the same spot. He amazingly doesn't always sniff before he pees, but stares into my eyes as if he were in love and I stare back all smitten, which seems to give him the 'please feel free to pee next to the pad' signal, LOL. FYI, it's not a demanding or signaling look, it's really as if he does that to please me.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

We have ten adults that are fully housetrained. We kept a puppy from our last litter who will be twelve weeks old tomorrow who is now fully house trained. She has had the run of the house for a little over a week now. She has a litter box in the great room in our house where we spend most of the time and access to pads on the other side of the room. She has never had an accident on the floor even though we did take up the rugs just to make sure. 

We have raised a number of our own who have never had an accident on the floor. Razzle, Frolic, Posh, Belle, Roxie. We spend a lot of time on this from the time they can toddle though and are not sideline breeders. We have lots of experience with this though and some of our puppy buyers loose all our training by giving a puppy too much freedom to start with. Those who say they are hard to housetrain don't know what they are doing.

Teach them right from the beginning and they will have no problem. Let them go wherever to start with and they may never be trained.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I completely agree with Tom about the house training thing. Kubrick didn't have full run of the house until he had been completely potty trained for a whole month. We added rooms by the week. He now has full run of the house although we do close the bedroom door when we leave him alone just because there are some things in there that we don't want him getting into while we're gone. We did make sure that he was completely potty trained though, before he was allowed to have free roam, even when we were home. It worked well for us.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Milo was doing well when I first got him. He had few accidents but that all changed when I went into the hospital. I'd had him less than a month and he had no particular schedule and had different people taking care of him from day to day. By the time I got home six days later, he was confused. I was too sick in the beginning to be as vigilant as I wanted to be and we started down a slippery slope.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

Tom King said:


> We have ten adults that are fully housetrained. We kept a puppy from our last litter who will be twelve weeks old tomorrow who is now fully house trained. She has had the run of the house for a little over a week now. She has a litter box in the great room in our house where we spend most of the time and access to pads on the other side of the room. She has never had an accident on the floor even though we did take up the rugs just to make sure.
> 
> We have raised a number of our own who have never had an accident on the floor. Razzle, Frolic, Posh, Belle, Roxie. We spend a lot of time on this from the time they can toddle though and are not sideline breeders. We have lots of experience with this though and some of our puppy buyers loose all our training by giving a puppy too much freedom to start with. Those who say they are hard to housetrain don't know what they are doing.
> 
> Teach them right from the beginning and they will have no problem. Let them go wherever to start with and they may never be trained.


i don't claim to 'know what i'm doing' tom, but what i have been doing has worked on every other dog i have had. i got mugs from the breeder when he was 10 months old. he had limited access to the house at first and was kept in a smaller area when i was not around. i walk him ever 2 hours no matter what. i posted hoping for some help.
got any advice for me?
joe


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Tom, obviously you have lots of experience. Pablo doesn't have the run of the house (only the living room), he's only allowed to be outside of his ex-pen when we can watch him and believe me, our living room isn't big. I contribute his accidents to MY lack of experience, but most of us are newbies in that area and need time&practice to figure it out. I've read so much about the potty training and still ask many questions, it's a learning process. The kid in me finds it frustrating when you say your 12 week old puppy is house broken, but the grown up in me says:'don't give up, work harder on yourself and you'll eventually be able to reach Tom's point'. :biggrin1:


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Tom, also besides having great experience, I think it's favorable for the puppies when they see older dogs doing the right thing. Unfortunately we don't have a house-trained dog that can teach Pablo what I'm apparently too dumb to do.
Don't get the wrong idea, Pablo has 0-2 accidents per day (w/ 0 accidents for a few days in a row) and he's a little under 5 months. I think we're not doing too bad for newbies.


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## Diana (Oct 23, 2007)

Maryam, 
I totally agree with you. I know alot of Teddy's mistakes are because I also am a newbie. I have read every book I can on potty training but I realize he is still just a baby and to just not give up! I just ordered "how to housetrain in 7 days" and bought bells for the back door. We'll see how that goes!

But Joe, that was a great question. I can deal with almost anything if I know *someday*, with consistancy, he will be fully housetrained


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## NancyVB (Jun 27, 2007)

I do believe that it is easier to train a puppy when there are trained adults for the pup to follow. 
I have a problem with our male Oscar, he doesn't like weather. If there is something falling from the sky and his little paws may get wet or cold, he prefers to go p&p inside! I have learned to stay outside with him for how ever long it may take and keep telling him to go. Eventually he goes. He is such a sissy! The girls run right out there and do their thing no matter what the weather and they both love to run in the snow.


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

*Meet my Princess Pee and Poop!*

My Lola is 7 months old and was doing better - giving me signals - until she spent 5 days at a Dog Hotel (kennel) where they can poop any time, any place. She regressed. I got very frustrated at the "walk, nothing, poop in the house 10 minutes later" gig. I read Tom King's advice on here, and have been following it to a T - although standing there coldly repeating only Go Potty for 10 minutes while she stands stock still listening for any little distraction, is driving me nuts. :frusty:

Lola uses a litter box - condo living - faithfully. Never pees in the house. But she will find a corner to scoot around and poop in in the most confined space. She only goes on the hard floor-thankfully - and doesn't repeat due to smell, but likes the privacy or something. When she goes outside she runs in a circle against the wall, and circles about and then scoots along - big production. When she poops in the house it is quiet and instantaneous.

I have faith that she'll get it - largely because I am diligent, and from the encouragement of everyone on this site. I am resorting to keeping her tethered to me because reducing the size of the room with gates, or putting her in the pen doesn't help. She'll poop in her ex-pen, 1 foot away from the litter. Go figure.

Next I am going to try the bells.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

gracie said:


> Maryam,
> I totally agree with you. I know alot of Teddy's mistakes are because I also am a newbie. I have read every book I can on potty training but I realize he is still just a baby and to just not give up! I just ordered "how to housetrain in 7 days" and bought bells for the back door. We'll see how that goes!
> 
> But Joe, that was a great question. I can deal with almost anything if I know *someday*, with consistancy, he will be fully housetrained


thanks!

when i got mugs i thought training might be a problem because he was already 10 months old and had a routine from the breeder's kennel.

joe


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

To answer a couple of comments: The puppies absolutely learn a lot from the older dogs. The new puppy, Piper, had never seen a piddle pad before but we were babysitting for someone else's adult who only uses pads so Piper knew right off what the pad was for. They also get to see and smell the adult dogs in the yard.

With the question on walking. I'm assuming you are trying to teach a pup to only go outside. I've never attempted to do this. I devote 2 or 3 days to doing nothing but training the new pup as soon as it's last litter mate leaves. The adults have no trouble changing to going into one of their yards that they have free access to but until they are big enough to leave with the pack on their own and can go in and out a dog door, they stay in the house where we are with a litter box.

I devote total time to training the pup for these first few days but I don't feel that I have enough time to train a baby to only go outside. It's only a few months until they can take care of that on their own.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Tom, you're giving me even more hope there by saying that they'll eventually go outside. I just keep working on my potty plan and will start introducing the bells soon. My biggest problem/challenge is to train him to hold it and give me a sign when he needs to go or just wait til I take him. I find that to be important as I don't want to take pee pads to people's places nor will we have a doggy door with free access anytime soon.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Redoor - There are a few of us on here who have dogs that do not like to pee and poop on the same pad. So, I have a couple of pads down.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Redorr, Michele's right, Pablo is one of them. But I put him in his ex-pen first thing in the morning and he won't get out until he has peed&pooped on the pad/paper. But since I don't have time 24 hours/day to watch this pooper, I started taking him out around his pooping times to avoid accidental pooping inside. I don't feel like putting pads all over our tiny place just to comfort Monsieur's funky habits.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2008)

Joe, you mentioned that Mugsy tears apart the pads, have you tried the holders that are made for the pads? Are you trying to get him to use pads totally? Just when you are not home? Do you want him to be only using outside?

Another option if you don't want to use a pad is a dog version litter box. Don't use cat litter though, it is toxic for dogs, puppies like to eat the stuff. There is a special litter that is for dogs, they look like tiny cylinders. In order to start the dog to know that the litter box is it place to 'go' you may want to bring in a small 'sample' of their Poop and put it in the box so he can smell it and get the idea that it is ok to go there in the box. Do clean up any poop that is left because dogs don't like to go potty in dirty places. But leaving a small fresh piece for next time. Just remember to clean up the rest as they will avoid the box if they find it too dirty and find somewhere else to go. Clean the box once a week with soap and water. Don't use any strong detergents or cleaners as the dog will also avoid the strong scents of the cleaners in the box. Offer rewards when using the box as well.

There are also a lot of dog style boxes out there for sale that even carry artificial or real sod pieces so you can get Mugsy to understand that if you are gone he can go on the 'inside grass' in his litterbox, but when outside, he is also using grass. That may eliminate the possible confusion and he will learn potty on grass only...not your rugs. 

Just a couple ideas, as I am not quite sure if you are looking to potty train inside or outside or both.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

My plan is to train him to go outside only, unless we're not home and/or put the pad down for him. Lina has already giving me plenty of food for thought, but I'm open to more suggestions


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I thought about that we are talking about two different things here. There's "training" and there's "retraining".

Training is training one from the beginning. Retraining is getting one to do something different than it has been done. We have not had that much experience in retraining Havanese since most of ours is from the start.

We used to buy and retrain horses so do have years of experience with that. We finally decided that it was just way too time consuming and started raising our own. Most of the horses we have now were raised here. We have our own "system" for raising dogs and horses. I start riding horses without saddle, bridle, or any tack . That comes later. Anyone who knows horses and knows our horses say that they are the best behaved horses they've ever seen. We use halters sometimes but mostly just once in a while so they will know what they are.

When retraining animals you have to go backwards in their training. Often all the way back to the beginning. Our puppies start out their lives in expens. Going potty on command is the key to the door. They catch on real fast if the trainer's timing is good. All animal training requires understanding of how the animal thinks, but also perfect timing and consistency.

Havanese are very much creatures of habit. A habit can quickly become something that they did once. Make sure any habit they develop is one you want.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

quote: "My biggest problem/challenge is to train him to hold it and give me a sign when he needs to go or just wait til I take him."

He's already giving signs that he needs to go. I guarantee it. The signs are probably more subtle than you are expecting.


The answers to any potty training problem is always-the dog has too much freedom and/or the trainer is not paying attention.

Does anyone know of anyone who has had complete success from the start teaching one to only go outside without crate of small expen training??


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks Tom. You're right, I'm actually re-training Pablo, cause he came paper-trained, but that's getting too messy for me. I've been trying to train him on pads from day one while overlapping with paper to avoid confusion. We had 10 accident free days a few weeks back until due to a late delivery of the new pack of pads we had to use another brand for 3 days. That's basically why Pablo 'relapsed'. So you're absolutely right about the re-training. I don't blame him at all, it must have been confusing for him.
I just try to pretend he's a wee pup again and put him on the pad and say go potty when I know he needs to go. He won't be let out of the ex-pen until he pees, which IMMEDIATELY leads to 'freedom'. I hope he'll pick the habit up if I stay consistent.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

> He's already giving signs that he needs to go. I guarantee it. The signs are probably more subtle than you are expecting.


Tom, you're right again. I tend to misinterpret his 'devoted looks' into my eyes, LOL. But those looks aren't always preceding potty breaks. I get the signs, when he sniffs around, a sudden stop while playing or looking around like 'what to do now' after waking up, but any other signs are just too subtle for me.

Edited: I also see a 'sign' when he licks himself when it's around potty time :whoo: ain't I smart? LOL


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2008)

Tom is right, consistancy is the key for a puppy, dog, or whatever animal you are trying to train. If you have an older dog/puppy that hasn't gotten the hang of it, you will have to start over as it if was a 16 week old puppy.

Here is a sample schedule if you are home all day with your dog (6-12 months old):

7 am - wake up and go out for potty
7:10 -8 am free time in enclosed area (like the kitchen while you are having breakfast,doing dishes, etc) - key word "enclosed"
8 am - food and water
8:30 am - go outside to potty
8:40 am - 9:30 free time again in enclosed kitchen area
9:30 am - confine to crate 
12:30 pm - go out for potty
12:45 pm - give water
1- 2 pm - free period in enclosed kitchen
2 - 6 pm - confine in crate
6 pm - got out to potty
6:10 pm - food and water, 
6:30 pm - out to potty again
6:40 - 7:30 pm - free period in kitchen
7:30 confine to crate
10:30 pm - out to potty and then confined in crate for the night - repeat steps again tomorrow.

** you may need to add a potty in here and there depending on your dogs potty habits...like it may take only 10 minutes after eating that it needs to go poop...or it may take 1 hour. Adjust the schedule accordingly.... One fact that needs to stay the same is to take the dog out after it has awaken...don't play with it, take it outside immediately.

The key is keeping the area small able to roam in its free time very small Like part of a kitchen, as so many of us spend are day in there anyways. so block off an area where you will be so you can socialize, etc while still keeping the dog from roaming.

Of course you may have to adjust the schedule if you get up earlier or later, etc. it kind of explains itself. Even if you think you dog has gotten it down in a week and give her/him more freedom, odds are it will backfire and you will have to start over again. As the dog progresses, you can add more free time WITH YOU in the enclosed are, but still confine the dog to that small area of the house. I know it doesn't sound like a lot of fun for you or your dog, but the rewards of a p&p free house are well worth it. Small dogs take on average about 1 year. So if you need that one on one time, and you don't want to spend that 1 year in the kitchen, then that is a great time to go for walks, play dates, etc. If they poop in the park, it is better than on your new rug or carpet. 

If you work, then try to get someone to come and let your dog out, give water only, play with around with them, got potty again and back in crate at lunchtime. Then let them out immediately when you go home, they must go potty outside before coming back in, then feed supper and continue the steps above (within reason at least) - This schedule worked for my 12 lb yorkie mix. She too was hard to housebreak, got pretty reliable, then regressed around 7 months (My fault - I gave her more freedom of the house than she was ready for), so I started over, She didn't have any accident after her 1st birthday. - She was crated when we were gone, she loved her crate and I love that she loved her crate. It made this easier for training or overnight visits. I personally don't know if I could have done it without crating.


Just my two cents. I hope it will help someone.


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## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

Molly's only "accidents" are when I don't pay attention to what she's telling ME! :frusty:

She usually sits by the door when she needs to go out, but if I'm not there to see her, she'll give *ME* another chance by getting on my lap, facing me, and gently pawing my cheek.

THAT'S when I know she means business!


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2008)

I forgot to mention, that I also used the bells on the door with great results. Everytime I took her outside as a puppy, I moved her paw up to ring the bells. Saying "ring the bells" then took her outside to potty. As the training progressed and she was more reliable, she rang the bells herself. (we allowed her 'enclosed area' to then include the door). - Eventually she didn't need the bells. She stared at us and ran back and forth between us and the door, if we said 'you need to go outside?" she would bark at us and run to the door. All of those things took many baby steps to get to that perfect end result. As a puppy, she didn't bark, so things definately get better. You will get there with consistancy.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

My three are fully housebroken. I moved to a new house January 18 and for some reason the move just made it "CLICK" for them. The old house had smells of my step daughters dogs accidents. I know they could smell them, because they would go in the rooms her dog went. I changed all carpeting at my new house and mopped the hardwood floors, since the previous owners had a dog. That did it! They have full run of the house when I am gone and have not had one accident yet. It even rained several days! I have a dog door, so when I bring them to other peoples houses, I am careful. I don't know what they would do somewhere else. It will click for the old Mugs, so hang in there.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Joe, Brady was a baby when we got him, so I can't really tell you much about how to train an older dog. I can tell you what worked with Brady though. Brady was always in our sight (and really still is most of the time). When ever he went p/p outside, we made a huge party about it! Lots of love and cookies too. If he had an accident inside, we would catch him midact and take him outside. He began to understand quickly. I then put bells on the door since Brady would go and sit by the door and wait quietly and I might miss him if I turned my back. The bells are sometimes abused so he can go out and play, but they really do work well for him to tell us he needs to go. Just be patient and I am sure he will get it soon. We also introduced rooms slowly. As a matter of fact, we just took down the gate that used to block the kitchen and den (where we spend most of our time) from the rest of the house. We still keep the bedroom doors closed and close him in the bedroom with us at night. And, if he is out of my sight for longer than 5 minutes, I go and find him. (Mostly because he is usually torturing the cats somewhere.) I hope maybe this will help. I am sure some dogs are just more difficult than others.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

The best place to buy piddle pads is Sam's Club but they aren't called anything for pets. Look in the pharmacy section where the incontinence (not sure about that spelling) products are and they sell boxes with not only many more than you get in a pet department pack but they are larger, much thicker, and much cheaper even though they seem to be made of the same stuff.

They're "Makers Mark Underpads".


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

*Paper Shredding*

I thought all Havs liked to shred paper, like my Lola who sees pee pads as just the best toy ever. In the frame, she will scratch and dig on them like there is a bone under there! Clearly it is not in the Hav genes, just hers! So the only inside option I have is litter. I have been taking her out in the morning and she always right away. I am going to start putting her in the litter in the morning inside the ex-pen. I guess I haven't been following Tom's advice to a T because I didn't realise it was all indoors in the ex pen.


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

We got Sissy when she was 10 weeks old and she was already paper trained.

I wanted her to go outside and my neighbor brought down the bells for me and told me to train her that way. I started and she trained in just a few days.

She is 3 yrs. old and hasn't had an accident since. Sissy has free roam of the house - never crated. I have her crate door open and she gets in there when she wants to but when we leave we just tell her bye and she normally just sleeps on the couch til we return. She has never even bothered anything.

I did crate her for a while when I left but eventually just let her have free roam and it has worked out.

Hang in there!


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Hi Joe,
I try not to give advice on potty training....I have not been very good at it, everytime I say Casper is potty trained he goes in the house and Missy she is still a baby but does good with her pee pads.

Anyway what I wanted to tell you is Simple Solution Oxy Solution is the best pet and stain destroyer because it has hydrogen peroxide in it....saved my rugs. 

There is alot of good advice on here just pick one direction and be consistant with your training. With a male dog neutering him will help avoid the "marking" that comes as they get older.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

yes, there has been some good info here and i appreciate it all, many thanks.

tomorrow i'll shampoo the rugs again and start all over.
i will try the bell ringing as mugs loves to play with noisy things and if he has a tell tale sign for wanting to go i have thus far been too dense to pick up on it.

i imagine that eventually one of us will figure this all out 

joe


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## HayCarambaMama (Dec 8, 2007)

Hi Joe, my Havs are 3 & 6 months and about 80% potty trained. They go outside. I do not give them a lot of freedom because they are so young. They spend most of their day in the expen, crate and out in the dog run (the potty place). I give them just a few minutes of free roam in the kitchen/family room (which has NO carpet!! Carpet seems to be a magnet for them to pee. It is incredibly RARE for them to poo in the house). I watch them very closely when they are not in their crates (the only place I feel almost 100% sure they won't soil). When in their expen, I notice they will often do a little "bark" to tell me they need to potty. Very subtle. But I feel I am very "in tune" with my puppies. Throughout the day we do a little routine cycle: dog run (for potty)-expen-dog run-RLH in the yard-crate, and then all over again.
I plan on restricting their boundaries - or freedom - until they are a year old. And then they will have roam of kitchen, family room, and possibly my bedroom - where their crates are (never the living/dining room and never upstairs).
Good luck! It sounds like you're well on your way! P.S. I am NOOO expert on portty training dogs! I just have potty trained 4 kids and, believe it or not, I find both creatures remarkably similar in their potty training behaviors! All my human babies were fully trained by 24-29 months. pretty good.eace:


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Linda, that is great news about your new house and your dogs! I was wondering how things were going for you in your new place. Did you find a home that is set up well for your dogs?

Joe, it is easy to get discouraged - try to take it one day at a time. They will have some bad days on the way to being trained...but eventually those get less and less. I only exclusively trained my two to pee outside (not indoors on a pad), although they came from the breeder being pee-pad trained and knowing how to use a dog door. I watched them like a hawk and took them out a LOT - in the beginning, maybe more than a dozen times a day, but they were much younger than yours. Please keep us posted!

Shampooing the rugs is good but still may not be enough to remove the odor - you will also need some Nature's miracle or Simple Solution (or similar type of product) to neutralize the previous stain odors


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Joe, I would say that the problem must lie with the fact that you got an older puppy with well-established bad habits. The trouble is that most people hate to confine and rigidly schedule/properly train an older dog the way they would a very young puppy. 

I have a friend who rescued a lovely bichon at 8 mos. He is Biscuit's age & they play together. The bichon is very resistant to house-breaking and has frequent accidents. I have explained to my friend that she must start from scratch and not give him the freedom of the house and fully devote three or four days to the process of housebreaking. As in the book "how to housebreak a dog in 7 days." But she refuses and I feel like he'll never be trained. I highly recommend this book! I believe it also deals with re-training.

Biscuit was easy and reliable by 6 mos. He wasn't given the run of the house until 10 mos, when I was sure I could trust him. But I am home with him and watch him closely. Good luck! I promise he will get it eventually if you confine him and stick religiously to a schedule. And you MUST treat each and every accident the minute it happens with the kind of scent remover they sell in pet stores. This is absolutely ESSENTIAL. A dog's sense of smell is 200 times more accute than ours. You cannot leave any scent of pee or poo in your house for a minute, or , of course, he will do it inside.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Gucci just turned one and she is STILL having 'accidents'. I really HOPED by the time she is 2 we will be past this.

Granted, she goes outside 95% of the time. BUT...those few and far between accidents drive me CRAZY.

We had some friends over last weekend and they have 3 Havs, 2 boys, 1 and 2 yo, and one puppy. Well, the two older boys both crapped in my house within the first 10 minutes and marked atleast 3 times each! lol, I did expect the new puppy to pee on the floor (she did twice) BUT..the older boys left much more pee and poop on my floor! ound:

Discouraging, I tell ya! haha. 

Soooo...the next day, Gucci decided to crap where one of the boys pooped. Great! *sigh*

Still a work in progress here. Although, she did extremely well from about 2 months old til' about 9/10 months and then some regression set in.

Kara


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## amandamarrone (Jan 17, 2008)

Griffin rings a bell to go out, but at almost nine months he started pooping in his pen at night. He looked so ashamed when I'd come down in the morning--just huddled in a corner. I finally figured out I was giving him too much of his favorite treat--chicken breast jerky. I cut that out and he's back to normal!


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Jane said:


> Linda, that is great news about your new house and your dogs! I was wondering how things were going for you in your new place. Did you find a home that is set up well for your dogs?
> 
> Joe, it is easy to get discouraged - try to take it one day at a time. They will have some bad days on the way to being trained...but eventually those get less and less. I only exclusively trained my two to pee outside (not indoors on a pad), although they came from the breeder being pee-pad trained and knowing how to use a dog door. I watched them like a hawk and took them out a LOT - in the beginning, maybe more than a dozen times a day, but they were much younger than yours. Please keep us posted!
> 
> Shampooing the rugs is good but still may not be enough to remove the odor - you will also need some Nature's miracle or Simple Solution (or similar type of product) to neutralize the previous stain odors


Jane,
Thanks for asking. The dogs love the new house! They are allowed in every room all the time, which is a first. I had to put in a couple fences, but everything is locked and fully secure! We just love it here.
Thanks.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

bit of an update...

i shampoo'd the rug yesterday, giving it a good pre-soaking with oxy simple solution and then adding more to the shampoo cleaner.
by the time i had put away the shampoo machine mugsy had pee'd on the rug.

i decided to block the doorway and not allow him into the living room. that was last night.

this morning, he went on the lino in the hallway before i got out of bed and then we had our normal routine, breakfast and then a walk and off i went to work.
as luck would have it i had to work a longer day and got home almost 2 hours later than normal.

and nothing...no p or p!! but he sure was in a hurry to go for a walk!

a side note, i have started bell training...so far he just looks at me funny when i ring the bells.

joe


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2008)

Joe, keep up with the bells and great job keeping him away from rugs/living room. He will get it. It will just take some time ;-)

Have Mugsy ring the bells whenever you say your command word/words "go outside" "potty time" or whatever. Hold his paw and ring the bells with it while saying your key words, then take him out as usual. Eventually, you will just say 'outside' and he will be knocking those bells off the string by himself!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

thanks kristy!!

i hope the bells work cause i keep missing his signals.

joe


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2008)

Sure Joe,

I just had to smile and cracked a small laugh when I read your post that Mugsy just looked at you while YOU rang the bells. I can just picture the little dude staring at you thinking, "what the heck is this crazy man doing with the noisy things?"

Just thought I would clarify that Mugsy should be doing it. 

Oh, all in due time. It is a different technique but most any breed of dog will take well to learning it.

Best of luck and keep posting so we know if Mugsy is getting the hang of it or P & P free for a couple days.

He is a very handsome guy! Still want to squeeze him, he looks like a teddy bear.

Can't help it...still smiling. 
Kristy


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

momof2 said:


> Sure Joe,
> 
> I just had to smile and cracked a small laugh when I read your post that Mugsy just looked at you while YOU rang the bells. I can just picture the little dude staring at you thinking, "what the heck is this crazy man doing with the noisy things?"
> 
> ...


i'm sitting here laughing at myself! ound:
i thought i started out ringing and then he would follow...

i should do this for a living!! 

joe


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2008)

Still smiling Joe 

Well I am off to bed. Have a great night!


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

i tied bells to the back door as well. everytime we went out to pee, i rang the bell and said lets go outside and go potty. i also had a legalpad onthe kitchen table. i would write when i took him out and what he did. slowly, i would increase the time between potty breaks. i didnt wait for him to tell me he had to go out, i took him out every hour, or every 3 hours depending where we were with the training. we got him inapril and he was house trained by july. everyone gave me a hard time for keeping track of things to the hour on my paper but, it worked. i also don't have a fenced in back yard so i had to take him out on the leash, making me aware of everything he did outside and helping me keep track of his progress. also,they say for every month your dog is old, that's how many hours they can hold it. smaller dogs are just harder to train. also, remove any prepeed areas, it's amazing how they go back to those nice smelling places to leave their mark again! good luck.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

a clean floor this morning!!
we're on a roll...


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Way to go Mugsy


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Yeah, Mugsy!!! And Joe!!! :biggrin1:


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