# Sleeping in the "Big Bed"



## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

Ok, so we've had Oliver Frederick for about 4 months now. His behavior(thanks to training and forum tips) has been MUCH better 

About a week ago, he peed in the house. Just a tiny bit. Then the next day, he did it twice. Just a little bit. Then the next day... so tuesday I took him to the vet to see if he had an infection. He doesn't. The vet was concerned that he is "marking territory" in our house and wondered if anything had changed. 

Well, when we got him, he was crated for a few hours during the day between work and school shifts and then he slept there during the night. Then I let him in the "big bed"...ours. He's so cute and soft and cuddly and I don't mind it. Now that it's summer the kids are home during the day and he is hardly ever in the crate. He usually has full run of the house but stays pretty close to us. The vet thinks his routine was interrupted and that he has too much "freedom" in our house. Her advice was to literally go back to crate-training days and keep him there more often than not. What do you all think of this?
She also was totally against him sleeping in our bed. My husband and I really don't mind it, but she thinks HE now thinks HE'S the boss. 

So that was tuesday. I made him sleep in the crate the last two nights and be in there during the day and it broke my heart. He cried half the night. BUT he hasn't peed in the house since. What should I make of this?


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

At this age they can easily have setbacks. Our McGee is almost six months and we still have accidents occasionally. I would not necessarily think it had anything to do with sleeping in the bed, though. If you like it then do it - if not start him back in the crate at night. It will take a while to get used to it again. I know because I switched at one point and regretted it! We found that when he started doing better going potty outside we tended to slack up on our vigilance and I don't think you can afford to do that until they are 100% reliable. I'll be glad when that happens at our house!

I'm sure you'll get more input from forum members.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Brody occasionally dribbles. I wouldn't even call them accidents. When he gets really excited or startled he sometimes pees a tiny bit. Usually it happens at work when one of the guys is playing with him and they tend to play a bit rougher than his wimpy mom does and sometimes he'll pee a little bit. Could it be something like this? I figure this will stop as he matures.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Okay her is the advice from the old woman. Let the little fellow sleep with you. I have slept with every house dog that I have every had from childhood to senior citizen. They love it and so do I. Rosie gets up next to my back and it feels sooo good. If I turn over, she waits until I get still again and back up against me. Other dogs have slelpt at my feet because they wanted to. I have never let one sleep on the pillow though. I think that is where some say they get to being the alpha dog when they sleep at the same level with you. But with little dogs if it is so, who cares? I spoil Rosie and let her get away with a lot of things that others wouldn't, but the really important things like not going through the open outside door then she knows that I am pack leader and I say no. I have never had a male housedog. I have had friends that did and they did have a problem with the marking. One friend had a little dog that marked all around the bed. It is like a cat spraying. If a cat is fixed soon enough they will not spray. I don't know about male dogs. I do know that lots of puppies will dribble pee when playing or excited and they grow out of that. I would guess that is the deal with your baby.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree with everyone else. Your puppy's accidents during the day don't have ANYTHING to do with the fact that he sleeps with you at night. That just doesn't make any sense. It happens that Kodi sleeps in his crate, but that's as much his choice as ours. We have an older cat who sleeps with us and she HATES him.:biggrin1: I see no reason not to let him sleep with you if that's your choice, and I agree with Kathie... it's easy, when they start to be better about their potty training, to be a bit less vigilant and end up with some back sliding. What he needs is closer supervision during the day, not to get kicked out of the bed.


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

Thank you all for your thoughts. I don't think his "accidents" have anything to do with the bed, either. I put him in his crate this evening while I cleaned the bathrooms, and he was really good. Then when I got him out, he seemed much calmer than usual in the evening, so maybe having the run of the house is what gets him excited or just over-stimulated. It makes me wonder if there are other pee spots that I just haven't found or noticed yet! 
My husband says I waited all my life for a dog and that it's fine for me to spoil him all I want! I feel like a new mom again! I'm so worried about doing everything "right"! Now, I feel like if I let him back in tonight, he'll be really confused!


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

The idea that if dogs get too much 'freedom', or if we let them sleep in our beds, or if we let them enter doors before us etc. etc. that then they become 'alpha' or 'boss' or think they own the house, or whatever, is honestly crap, at least for most if not all of our little guys (and girls!). Letting your dog sleep in your bed is a personal choice - some people here on the forum are all for it, some don't let their dogs do it, but whether or not you choose to let your dog sleep in your bed doesn't make him or her 'dominant', or have issues of any sort, other than if they have to go pee in the night they might pee in your bed or in your bedroom if they can't hold it and are not taken out, and are used to having a pee pad or whatever (as I know very well from personal experience LOL!). Ditto for letting your dogs up on the couch, walking into doors in front of you, etc. etc. - it's a totally personal choice, and your dog will be fine either way. 

From what I understand, I agree with the above advice - regressions in potty training are quite normal. If you want to keep your dog in your bed, I say do so and just go back to strict training/watching him the way you had to when he was younger, and he will eventually get it. (And maybe think about finding another vet, honestly - I would! Her opinions are so outdated as to be laughable, which would make me personally question any other decision she made with regards to my precious pet.) How old is he? I am assuming that he is neutered; if not, it could be a marking thing that can only really be fixed by neutering or tempered by belly bands.

Anyway, good luck, let us know how it goes!


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

Thank you! He is about 16 months old. He had been with one other owner before me- I don't know much about his first 10 months, except that he came to me so matted he had to be shaved, he didn't know any commands (not even "sit"), he was scared of men and he ate "Kibbles & Bits"! 
Yes, he is neutered. He has problems with anal glands (we go in every 3-4 weeks) I asked the vet if that had anything to do with the peeing and she insisted it didn't? 
Yeah, I like the vet-she's nice and seems to love animals, but she's funny about alot of things. She also told me he should only eat twice a day, 1/6 cup of food each time? He gobbles it down each time in like 60 seconds and sometimes still acts hungry. She also says no wet food, only dry and 1-2 treats a day. He is not overweight- 8.5lbs exactly- actually when he was shaved, he was 8lbs 10oz, so I think he has lost a couple ounces. I attributed that to how active he is- we walk and run with him every day and take him with us whereever we go. So maybe I do need a new vet.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

All the advice here is what I would tell you. Especially Lucille's! We love having Lizzie sleep with us, although, the plan was for her to sleep with dd! I have to disagree with your vet as far as no wet food and only 1/6 cup????? Lizzie gets canned and meat (chicken, beef, eggs) although I just took her to a homeopathic vet and I am going to home cook for her per Dr. Pitcairn's recipes or perhaps Sabine who Dave recommends. Kibble is so highly processed and canned is not much better. Most cats live in a chronic state of dehydration due to kibble. Dogs do tend to drink more readily.


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

oh, he doesn't eat the kibbles and bits anymore! I have been feeding him organic health food from my local pet store. It only has 4 ingredients and the first is chicken which I was told was good, but I am totally up for suggestions for making my own food! My husband is a body-builder and my son has so many allergies, that our diet is very natural and I am used to cooking and preparing large amounts of food and storing/freezing. Honestly, I never thought to mmake Oliver's food, too! Is there a food section on the forum? I never really paid attention. And I'm glad someone else thinks that 1/6 cup just isn't enough food. 
I'm totally feeling like a new mom...


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I've been homecooking out of necessity for Tillie (14 months) for 2 months now and although it is a LOT of work, I feel good knowing that it is the best thing for her!
If you have any questions you can PM or check out the "alternative diets/homecooked" section of the forum! 
and yes 1/6 is a TINY amount!!? I would easily up him to 1/4 -1/3 cup per meal (twice a day). My Hav is also on the small side at 8 1/2 lbs


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tcollins said:


> Thank you all for your thoughts. I don't think his "accidents" have anything to do with the bed, either. I put him in his crate this evening while I cleaned the bathrooms, and he was really good. Then when I got him out, he seemed much calmer than usual in the evening, so maybe having the run of the house is what gets him excited or just over-stimulated. It makes me wonder if there are other pee spots that I just haven't found or noticed yet!
> My husband says I waited all my life for a dog and that it's fine for me to spoil him all I want! I feel like a new mom again! I'm so worried about doing everything "right"! Now, I feel like if I let him back in tonight, he'll be really confused!


Awww, I have to say, what a GREAT hubby! As far as your puppy is concerned, I know EXACTLY how you feel. Kodi was my first puppy too, and I wanted to do everything EXACTLY right. Eery little set-back was a disaster in my mind. Keep thinking things through and working to solve problems, but a set back is NOT the end of the world... it happens with every puppy, and in the end, you (and he!) will get there!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tcollins said:


> Thank you! He is about 16 months old. He had been with one other owner before me- I don't know much about his first 10 months, except that he came to me so matted he had to be shaved, he didn't know any commands (not even "sit"), he was scared of men and he ate "Kibbles & Bits"!
> Yes, he is neutered. He has problems with anal glands (we go in every 3-4 weeks) I asked the vet if that had anything to do with the peeing and she insisted it didn't?
> Yeah, I like the vet-she's nice and seems to love animals, but she's funny about alot of things. She also told me he should only eat twice a day, 1/6 cup of food each time? He gobbles it down each time in like 60 seconds and sometimes still acts hungry. She also says no wet food, only dry and 1-2 treats a day. He is not overweight- 8.5lbs exactly- actually when he was shaved, he was 8lbs 10oz, so I think he has lost a couple ounces. I attributed that to how active he is- we walk and run with him every day and take him with us whereever we go. So maybe I do need a new vet.


Well, I don't like your vet's training advice, and he advice on food (other than quantity) flies in the face of what I've learned. Kibble can be fine... Kodi eats good quality kibble and is very happy with it. But many, MANY dogs eat healthy diets using canned, frozen, home cooked or raw diets. You should avoid sudden CHANGES in diet, as that can lead to loose stools and big messes. Kodi weighs 16.5 lbs, so roughly twice what your guy weighs, and eats a rounded 1/4c of good quality kibble twice a day. So 1/6c twice a day for your guy doesn't sound like a bad starting point. Don't get sucked in by the "hungry" looks. Many dogs will eat themselves into oblivion!:biggrin1: A tiny dog like yours can put on weight FAST. You'll just have to watch his weight and adjust up or down as needed.

As far as treats are concerned, I don't give treats at all unless the dog is working. Then I use tiny bits of good, nutritious food. He may be getting a few more calories, but he's also USING more calories because he's working. He has maintained the same weight since he was 10 months old. (He was 2 on April 30)

As far as switching vets is concerned, it may be something to consider. It's hard when you and your vet don't see eye to eye on certain subjects, or when the vet can't at least be flexible. As far as training is concerned, vets are NOT trainers. If you are having behavior problems with your dog, after checking for any physical causes, the vet should be referring you to a good trainer, not trying to wear that hat too!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tcollins said:


> oh, he doesn't eat the kibbles and bits anymore! I have been feeding him organic health food from my local pet store. It only has 4 ingredients and the first is chicken which I was told was good, but I am totally up for suggestions for making my own food! My husband is a body-builder and my son has so many allergies, that our diet is very natural and I am used to cooking and preparing large amounts of food and storing/freezing. Honestly, I never thought to mmake Oliver's food, too! Is there a food section on the forum? I never really paid attention. And I'm glad someone else thinks that 1/6 cup just isn't enough food.
> I'm totally feeling like a new mom...


Be careful on that assumption! Because kibble has no water in it, it is much more concentrated than canned or other "wet" foods". A lean dog is a healthy dog. It's better to be a bit thin than too heavy. If he looks to thin, up him a bit. But I wouldn't ASSUME that that's not enough food based on another (possibly larger) dog, being fed a different food. Different animals of EXACTLY the same size metabolize food differently too. I had a 16.1h mare that needed 6 quarts of grain and all the hay I could stuff into her daily, I now have a 16.1 h gelding who gets a HANDFUL of grain, and we have to limit his hay or he gains weight quickly!


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

*UPDATE*

Thank you all for your advice! I love being able to ask and get so much helpful information! Well, we took some of the vet's advice, but tweeked it based on what many of ou wrote to me and Oliver is, I think, doing better. 
We took the vet's advice and started crating him again at night, rather than letting him sleep in our bed with us and I think it's better this way. He used to get up lots of times to move around the bed and interupting all of our sleep, now he is sleeping until about 6:30 every day. When he wakes up, he will whimper a little to be let out to pee and then I let him lay with me for a half hour or so until I get up. 
We took the vet's advice on feeding 2 times a day, however, decided on about 1/4 cup food, instead of 1/6 and he is doing better. It's hard to take it away if he hasn't eaten, but he certainly will gobble up the next bowl! 
We have been a little more strict on his barking and I do see a bit of a difference! He hasn't peed on the floor at all since we made these few changes, so that's a good thing! 
I am still considering another obedience class, though
But again, thanks everyone!!!!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

If it makes you feel any better, my 1/2 hav, he's 1.5 yrs old now, only has two flaws:

1) hates to go in the yard when wet outside ( don't think he likes getting his feet wet), so even if the sliding glass door is wide open (usually is), he'll pee on the carpet runner to the sliding glass door which usually has a towel over it so the dogs don't track too much dirt in.

2) pulls like a truck on leash, usually from tree to tree. he's getting better.

I'm still working on both. he sleeps on my bed if he wants to. it's hot during the summer and sometimes he prefers the cool hardwood floors. he used to sleep on my pillow when he was a pup, but now he prefers to stretch out on the bed. 

I used to buy into the whole dominance thing (eat before them, walk into the house or another room before them, etc). I am now more about the energy I project, and I use very strong, motivating reinforcers. 

I'm sure you'll get it all sorted out, havs are so pickin' smart!


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

Well, it seems training a dog is alot like raising kids. You have to find a balance. This is my first dog, but I am in the midst of parenting 3 kids (14,12,10) and realize a few things.
1st of all, they are all different- I can discipline my 12-yr-old with a "look" alone and she's all good. My 14-yr-old will give me a "look" right back and then go on to eplain how ridiculous my expection is and the 6 million reasons why she should do it her way. My 10-yr-old doesn't even NOTICE the "look" and continues whatever he was doing!
2nd, balance is key. You don't want your kids (or dogs) running your life, but they have to have room to be themselves and develop their own ideas and imaginations. My dad has always told me "pick your battles"
3rd, forget everything I just wrote! Everytime I think I have it figured out, they come up with something new!!!!
But yes, I agree with you- havs (and kids!) are VERY smart and I don't totally buy the dominance thing either.
But what I don't agree with you on is this- I will NEVER figure it out!
ound:


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