# Tips for Crate



## David1969 (Nov 12, 2015)

Hello again,
How did you get your new pup to become acclimated to his/her new crate on day one? I've watched several videos (Kikopup's, for one) and some trainers do it differently. Maybe I am over thinking this, but this is our first dog so I am getting a little anxious! 

Also, we bought a Midwest wire crate with a divider for the day (for potty training purposes) and a small Petmate Vari kennel for bedtime. Is this a good idea or should I have just one--the Midwest crate? Not sure if he'll be able to adjust to both. 

Thank you for answering! 
~Meri


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

David1969 said:


> Hello again,
> How did you get your new pup to become acclimated to his/her new crate on day one? I've watched several videos (Kikopup's, for one) and some trainers do it differently. Maybe I am over thinking this, but this is our first dog so I am getting a little anxious!
> 
> Also, we bought a Midwest wire crate with a divider for the day (for potty training purposes) and a small Petmate Vari kennel for bedtime. Is this a good idea or should I have just one--the Midwest crate? Not sure if he'll be able to adjust to both.
> ...


He'll be able to adjust to two with no problem. I hope, however, that the divided one is not one of those where the dog's potty is in one side? I think it isVERY confusing (and a bad idea!) to encourage a puppy to potty in their bedroom.

By far the easiest way to get young puppies used to sleeping in a crate is for the breeder to start the puppies in crates shortly before they go home. If the puppies are side by side in crates, hopefully with mom nearby too, they adjust very quickly, with little angst.

If your breeder won't/can't do this, they STILL adjust pretty quickly, as long as you are nearby. Many of us put the crate very near our bed, so that if the puppy has trouble, we can just stick our fingers in the crate to reassure them for the first few nights.

Another option is to have the crate inside a small ex-pen with a litter box or other indoor potty. Then the puppy can use the potty on their own at night. That's what we did with our older one after the first week or so... the younger one never needed it, as she slept through the night right off.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Shama has a Midwest wire crate inside a 2x6 wooden ex-pen made by Pupperton (link below).

The Best Wooden Dog Crates | Pupperton - Home

We put the divider in the Midwest wire crate at the beginning just to keep it only slightly bigger than her as she grew. She is a runt, but at 6 months, she now weighs 6 pounds, and she has the entire crate for sleeping.

At the other end of the ex-pen, we put a training tray (link below) for her to use overnight and during the day while we're at work. Our plan is to eventually remove the tray as she should eventually be able to hold it overnight and during a half day of work (we have a dog walker take her out at noon each day).






We camped in the living room to keep her company the first three nights as her little "apartment" is tucked under the island separating the kitchen from the dining room. (We have an open floor plan, so you can see from kitchen to dining room to living room.) Then we moved to our bedroom for sleeping, and she has never seemed lonely during the overnights.

The Pupperton was a significant investment, but we are so happy to have it. She seems to be very comfortable in it during the overnights and when we are not home (and when we want to know exactly where she is, like when people are going in and out the front door). It tears down easily, so it can travel with us to our relatives' houses.

Attached are two pictures. The pink tray isn't in the pen in this picture, but it takes up slightly less than half of the pen. She has always loved lying in the "alley" between her crate and the front of the ex-pen.

Good luck with your new puppy! We love ours!


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## David1969 (Nov 12, 2015)

Thank you for your replies. 

No, we don't plan on dividing the crate so that one side is available for potty breaks. We'll just use the divider to make it big enough to sleep/rest. 

I love your ex-pen….that is great quality. I've been going back and forth about buying an ex-pen. While we work, we were thinking of just gating off our kitchen to a small hallway and our bathroom and then he'd have a small space for his crate, potty pads, and water. He'd have enough room to walk around. Do you think this is a good option? I love the pic of your pup in the alley. So precious!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

David1969 said:


> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> No, we don't plan on dividing the crate so that one side is available for potty breaks. We'll just use the divider to make it big enough to sleep/rest.
> 
> I love your ex-pen&#8230;.that is great quality. I've been going back and forth about buying an ex-pen. While we work, we were thinking of just gating off our kitchen to a small hallway and our bathroom and then he'd have a small space for his crate, potty pads, and water. He'd have enough room to walk around. Do you think this is a good option? I love the pic of your pup in the alley. So precious!


That's probably too much room to start with. It's really important to set them up for success if you want potty training to go smoothly. Only expand the area they are allowed as they show they are able to handle it without accidents.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Karen, do you think it is possible to crate train with a 2x6 ex-pen instead of just a crate? We don't ever actually close the door to Shama's crate unless she's riding in it in the car. When she was little, she would occasionally pee in the ex-pen where the tray wasn't at the moment. Now we try to take her outside in order to avoid accidents or just leave the tray in her open ex-pen as was recommended by a trainer we know. Her theory was that if she's out and about in the house, she'll be able to pee either on the tray in the ex-pen or after asking to go outside. She said we really should get Shama on a schedule on the weekends, only taking her out every three hours. We've been taking her out every two hours, but just today, she had two accidents inside (one this morning, one this afternoon) at about the 90-minute mark. We're chalking it up to her young age (6.5 months). We are wondering if, at some point when we become really serious about potty training (either during Spring Break or in June when school lets out - we are both teachers), we will need to close the door to the crate or just confine her to the ex-pen. Thanks for your advice. (And thanks to anyone else who wants to chime in.)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Karen, do you think it is possible to crate train with a 2x6 ex-pen instead of just a crate? We don't ever actually close the door to Shama's crate unless she's riding in it in the car. When she was little, she would occasionally pee in the ex-pen where the tray wasn't at the moment. Now we try to take her outside in order to avoid accidents or just leave the tray in her open ex-pen as was recommended by a trainer we know. Her theory was that if she's out and about in the house, she'll be able to pee either on the tray in the ex-pen or after asking to go outside. She said we really should get Shama on a schedule on the weekends, only taking her out every three hours. We've been taking her out every two hours, but just today, she had two accidents inside (one this morning, one this afternoon) at about the 90-minute mark. We're chalking it up to her young age (6.5 months). We are wondering if, at some point when we become really serious about potty training (either during Spring Break or in June when school lets out - we are both teachers), we will need to close the door to the crate or just confine her to the ex-pen. Thanks for your advice. (And thanks to anyone else who wants to chime in.)


I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Do you mean that sometimes you were leaving a potty in the ex-pen and sometimes you weren't? If so, I agree with your trainer, that's a mistake. If you are foing to offer an indoor potty option (which I firmly agree with) it should be there all the time. You can't expect the dog to know what she's supposed to do, if all of a sudden, she can't find it.

Second, I'm not sure what you mean about "get serious about potty training". At 6 1/2 months, she should be well on her way. Every day that you let her establish habits you don't want later will be MANY days to undo later. Your goal should be NO mistakes from day one. That doesn't mean there won't BE mistakes, because that's close to impossible. But that should be your goal.

That said, a puppy (or adult dog, for that matter) who is reliably using an indoor potty option is NOT making mistakes. They are going in a place that they've been taught to use. I prefer to maintain my dog's willingness to use an indoor potty, because it is convenient for me in bad weather and when we are traveling. But I've yet to hear of a dog that doesn't learn to use, and prefer the great outdoors once they are introduced to it. (At least in good weather... A lot of them would prefer not to go out in bad weather, which is where that indoor option comes in VERY handy!) If you REALLY object to keeping an indoor potty available, you can get rid of it once your dog is reliably going outdoors. But Tom King, who has potty trained more puppies than you cna count, has said many times that the people who have the hardest time with potty training "mistakes" are those who insist on the dog ONLY going outside, and don't provide an indoor potty option. I think the trainer you worked with was very wise to recognize that too.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Thanks for your quick reply, Karen. Our original hope was to get our puppy as soon as school let out in June so that we would have nearly three months with her before having to return to work. But then the litter was small (two puppies), so we had to wait for another litter. As a result, we got our puppy on August 11. Our original hope was to crate train like mad from the moment we brought our puppy home. But then the main book I was planning to refer to, which had been HIGHLY recommended by my cousin, "How to Housebreak Your Dog in 7 Days," said you had to start with a six-month old puppy. That is why I said "get serious about potty training" in my previous post. I think we are well on our way as Shama is six and a half months old and we have been taking her out and establishing a routine with a consistent command and lots of praise. On Christmas Day, instead of just squatting in my in-laws' house, she went to the door twice when she needed to go outside. We don't fault Shama for any of her accidents as we do understand that she's a puppy and that we are not always attentive enough. Our issue is that Shama has two lifestyles. Her weekday lifestyle is ex-pen from 6 AM to 11 AM when she gets to spend time with a dog walker then ex-pen from noon until 4 when one of us gets home from work. Her evening, weekend, and summer lifestyle is increasing amounts of freedom and decreasing amounts of ex-pen. She has only rarely missed the training tray (and that may be when she deems the pad too full - we do change it daily), and she will only make BMs outside. Since leaving the training tray in the ex-pen while we're home, however, we haven't observed her going into her ex-pen to use it. Instead, she either goes outside when we take her out or in the room we happen to be in (if we miss her signal, like when she stops chewing on her bully spring and gets up). Given Shama's two different lifestyles, how should we modify our methods to maintain a potty training goal of no mistakes? Again, thank you so much for your help! (I am still wondering if there will come a time where we will close her into her crate like real crate training requires. Currently, the door to her crate is never closed as it is contained within an ex-pen.)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Thanks for your quick reply, Karen. Our original hope was to get our puppy as soon as school let out in June so that we would have nearly three months with her before having to return to work. But then the litter was small (two puppies), so we had to wait for another litter. As a result, we got our puppy on August 11. Our original hope was to crate train like mad from the moment we brought our puppy home. But then the main book I was planning to refer to, which had been HIGHLY recommended by my cousin, "How to Housebreak Your Dog in 7 Days," said you had to start with a six-month old puppy. That is why I said "get serious about potty training" in my previous post. I think we are well on our way as Shama is six and a half months old and we have been taking her out and establishing a routine with a consistent command and lots of praise. On Christmas Day, instead of just squatting in my in-laws' house, she went to the door twice when she needed to go outside. We don't fault Shama for any of her accidents as we do understand that she's a puppy and that we are not always attentive enough. Our issue is that Shama has two lifestyles. Her weekday lifestyle is ex-pen from 6 AM to 11 AM when she gets to spend time with a dog walker then ex-pen from noon until 4 when one of us gets home from work. Her evening, weekend, and summer lifestyle is increasing amounts of freedom and decreasing amounts of ex-pen. She has only rarely missed the training tray (and that may be when she deems the pad too full - we do change it daily), and she will only make BMs outside. Since leaving the training tray in the ex-pen while we're home, however, we haven't observed her going into her ex-pen to use it. Instead, she either goes outside when we take her out or in the room we happen to be in (if we miss her signal, like when she stops chewing on her bully spring and gets up). Given Shama's two different lifestyles, how should we modify our methods to maintain a potty training goal of no mistakes? Again, thank you so much for your help! (I am still wondering if there will come a time where we will close her into her crate like real crate training requires. Currently, the door to her crate is never closed as it is contained within an ex-pen.)


I honestly don't think "crate training" is a great way to go with small breed dogs, except at night. I think that where yo are running into trouble is by giving her too much freedom when she's not in her ex-pen. Having her tray only in her pen may mean that it's a LONG way away when she needs to go. To start with (and for you, I'd do it now, since she is not reliable) I'd make sure there is a tray in whatever room she's in, so she can get to it quickly. For mine, I started with one in our bed room, one in the ex pen, one in my office and one in the kitchen. Those were the places that they were loose as puppies, plus the ex pen where they were confined.

My boy had more accidents than my girl, but many of those were "almost", which is not uncommon with boys. (He'd put his front feet in the litter box, then pee, even though the important bits were outside the box! )

I also prefer wood pellets to pee pads, and since your girl is objecting to dirty pee pads, I'd consider it. (I don't have the tray you are using, but I do have a UgoDog tray, and the pellets fit under that instead of a pad. The problem with pads is that they STINK after just one use. I couldn't stand them, and I certainly understand why a dog doesn't want to go back to them. The wood pellets absorb odors beautifully. Cleaned daily, there is NO smell that a human can detect. (Dogs have much better noses than we do, but kept clean, mine have never refused the litter boxes) Pellets are also a much more eco-friendly option than plastic-backed pee pads!

However, whether you decide on pee pads or pellets, you need them in more places until she is showing that she can get herself to just one or two places in the house, AND you should make sure they are changed/cleaned more often. That, and keeping her completely OUT of rooms where there isn't a potty should help a lot in getting her completely potty trained. I have NO idea what the book you read was talking about, but it is ridicoulous to wait until a dog is 6 months old to potty train. Can you just imagine a 6 month old Great Dane letting go in the house!?!?! I'm not saying that you won't have to keep tabs on a 6 month old Havanese, but if they are started young, with consistent, eyes-on supervision, and confined to a small area with a potty when they can't be supervised, they should be pretty darned solid by that age. My girl hasn't had a potty accident since 12 weeks, and my boy was pretty darned reliable by 16 weeks. (And because I was a first time dog owner with him, I made more mistakes with him in terms of too much freedom too early).


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Oh, just wanted to add, that the other factor is that some people may define "potty trained" differently than I do. If by "potty trained" you mean that the dog NEVER eliminates anywhere but out doors, that Kodi (6 1/2) is STILL not "potty trained". If you define it as the dog only goes in approved places, be that outdoors or a potty that I provide for them, then mine are 100% reliable. And, after all, I use an indoor toilet too. . If I had Great Danes, or even Golden Retrievers, They would HAVE to learn to only potty outdoors. There is just no way to handle that amount of waste in the house. But one of the big advantages of toy breeds is that we CAN easily provide them with an indoor potty. Let's face it, there are cats that are larger than most of our dogs, and it is standard practice to provide them with a cat box!


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I have successfully used a crate to potty train my Havanese and my Bichon before her. That being said, I am a stay-at-home pet parent and was able to stick to the rules religiously to get her potty trained this way. If I worked outside the home an indoor potty option would have been my choice. I used an expen with Molly when she was little as an area that she could have more freedom but I didn't need eyes on her every second. I also only used it if she had gone potty outside first. My expen also had the option to open it up like an extra wide gate. This came in handy to keep her in certain areas of my home before she was fully trained. Molly loves her crates and she goes in there on her own to nap during the day. When I tell her I need to shower she runs in there too! When we have to leave the home for several hours I use a baby gate to confine her to my mudroom area. This works like an expen would. She has her crate, toys, food and water. She has not had an accident ever with this set up. Good luck with whatever potty training set up you decide will work best for you.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Thanks so much, Karen!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Thanks, Diane!


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

I haven't read through all these posts but I did crate train Tim at the older age of 2 when I knew I was getting a second puppy. I am so happy I crate trained, my two now like their crates. Tim will sleep in his crate now with the door open. He HATED being in a crate prior to my efforts. Mae was crate trained from the very beginning so her story is a bit different then Tim's. Here's an old thread I started when I posted about working with Tim using a training method called Shaping.
http://www.havaneseforum.com/7-training-tips-advice/30586-i-love-shaping-3-a.html


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jabojenny said:


> I haven't read through all these posts but I did crate train Tim at the older age of 2 when I knew I was getting a second puppy. I am so happy I crate trained, my two now like their crates. Tim will sleep in his crate now with the door open. He HATED being in a crate prior to my efforts. Mae was crate trained from the very beginning so her story is a bit different then Tim's. Here's an old thread I started when I posted about working with Tim using a training method called Shaping.
> http://www.havaneseforum.com/7-training-tips-advice/30586-i-love-shaping-3-a.html


I think people are talking about two different kinds of "crate training" here. There is "using a crate for potty training", and "getting a dog (or puppy) used to resting quietly in a crate".

I think the first (using a crate for potty training) is a matter of choice, and the start a puppy has been given by the breeder. In the case of both of mine, the breeder had given them a strong start on using a litter box. They both knew what a litter box was, and were absolutely reliable in an ex-pen sized area. So there was no need for confining them in a smaller area. If a puppy has NOT learned good potty skills from the breeder, crating when they cannot be CLOSELY supervised is likely to prevent accidents, because (unless they've been raised in HORRIBLE conditions) puppies instinctively avoid soiling their bedding.

The type of "crate training" that Jen is talking about is, IMO, vital. Even if you don't THINK you'll ever crate your dog, things happen. Dogs get sick or hurt and need to be confined. If they are not comfortable in a crate, that can be a miserable experience for them. A crate is also one of the safest ways to transport a dog in the car, and some type of soft-sided carrier (from the dog's perspective, this is still very similar to a crate) is required if you ever intend to fly with your dog. As far as I'm concerned, getting a puppy or dog to the point where it is happy in a crate is an essential part of raising and training that dog properly. Again, many good breeders begin crate training over night before the puppies go to their permanent homes. That makes it even easier. But there are ways to make even an adult dog love their crate. My favorite method is Susan Garrett's "Crate Games": 




Crate Games can be used in all kinds of ways to help with performance training, but if you never complete more than the first 3 lessons with your dog, you'll STILL have a dog who LOVES their crate, and looks at it as somewhere they want to be, rather than being "locked up in jail".


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## JMarquez (Dec 9, 2015)

We decided to crate train my Charlie from the beginning! We have now had him almost 2 weeks, and things are going beautifully! The breeder had him sleeping in a whelping box each night until the day we picked him up. We had a crate waiting for him when we got home, and we had prepared ourselves for a sleepless night, as it's common for even the best dog to cry the first few nights away from family. The breeder was nice enough to send us with a blanket and toy with familiar scents on them. I can't say if that's what made the first night so easy or not, but I am thankful we have them! 

We placed the toy and blanket both in the crate and then took Charlie around to introduce him to the house. After a tour of the house I gave him a few treats/praise standing right outside the crate. I then placed a couple treats in the crate, and when we walked in, I praised him immensely! I then shut the door and gave him a couple treats through the door still praising. I then sat on the couch within eyesight of him talking to him the whole time. "Good boy Charlie! Good kennel!", etc. He didn't bark through this as I continued to praise him and talk to him. After a few minutes of this, I got him out of the crate and praised him and played with him, fed him, etc. I repeated this process (minus the feeding of course) several times, each time I extended his time in the crate and talked to him a little less. In the end, he was in the crate for about 30 minutes without me talking. He just played with his toy and watched me move around the house. We then let him out for several hours to play with us, play in the yard, hang out on the couch, etc. 

Then when it was time for bed, we took him out again, placed him in the crate (same treat process), shut the door and covered it up to make it den-like. I set my alarm for 4 hrs, he was still snoozing, but aroused when I pulled the cover up, so I took him out to potty, put him back in, and got another 3 hrs of peaceful sleep before it was time to start the day! There have been days where he will bark some at the beginning of the night, but never for more than a couple minutes before he settles. He has only had 2 accidents in the crate, and that was because we missed our alarms. He did great traveling and sleeping in the crate in new houses and all. 

He is currently crated at night or when we need to be away. We are looking at ex-pens, but I have no idea what size to get, brand, etc. So I would love advice from anyone willing to give it!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Yes, David1969 initially asked about getting her puppy used to a crate. Later I asked Karen about crate training for potty training. Even though Shama is happy to go into her crate, I am interested in that crate games DVD. (I cannot get over how much a person could learn about raising a dog!) Can those of you who have owned Havanese for more than four months tell me if we can expect Shama to at some point take naps on her little beds in various places in our house (wherever we are)? Right now, she is forever restless and exploring whenever we have her in the wider world of the house. She only really relaxes and sleeps when she's in her crate or when she's on the couch with us at the very end of the day (and even then, it's only at the very end - most of the time when she's on the couch with us, she's in her little bed chewing on pig's ear). Also, just wanted to give you a potty training update. At my parents' house yesterday, she barked at me to take her outside to pee even as she was standing on her training tray in her ex-pen. She really does seem to prefer to go potty outside. (And Karen, you mentioned pee pads stinking. The ones we use (Paw Trax Super Absorbent Training Pads) don't smell bad to us unless they're saturated. The two times Shama has peed in her ex-pen but not entirely on her training tray have also been when the pads were saturated. We don't let them get saturated any more!)


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

JMarquez said:


> We are looking at ex-pens, but I have no idea what size to get, brand, etc. So I would love advice from anyone willing to give it!


I posted a picture of our ex-pen earlier in this thread. One thing that is really great about this model is how easy it is to take down and put back up. Shama spent two nights at my in-laws house for Christmas, and she spent last night at my parents' house. She had her little apartment (ex-pen) with her both times, and everything went smoothly. I find it interesting that at home, we are just down the hall from Shama, but at both houses, we were on different floors from her, and she just slept like a baby. It's really great to have her in her own familiar space wherever we travel.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Yes, David1969 initially asked about getting her puppy used to a crate. Later I asked Karen about crate training for potty training. Even though Shama is happy to go into her crate, I am interested in that crate games DVD. (I cannot get over how much a person could learn about raising a dog!) Can those of you who have owned Havanese for more than four months tell me if we can expect Shama to at some point take naps on her little beds in various places in our house (wherever we are)? Right now, she is forever restless and exploring whenever we have her in the wider world of the house. She only really relaxes and sleeps when she's in her crate or when she's on the couch with us at the very end of the day (and even then, it's only at the very end - most of the time when she's on the couch with us, she's in her little bed chewing on pig's ear). Also, just wanted to give you a potty training update. At my parents' house yesterday, she barked at me to take her outside to pee even as she was standing on her training tray in her ex-pen. She really does seem to prefer to go potty outside. (And Karen, you mentioned pee pads stinking. The ones we use (Paw Trax Super Absorbent Training Pads) don't smell bad to us unless they're saturated. The two times Shama has peed in her ex-pen but not entirely on her training tray have also been when the pads were saturated. We don't let them get saturated any more!)


Good news on the potty training!

Yes, she will for sure, settle down as she matures. But not for a while yet! And it's hard to say whether she'll use dog beds. That seems to be a matter of preference. Kodi likes to hang out in a crate with the door off for much of the day, or, if it's hot, on the floor. Pixel prefers curling up in a donut bed, or against Kodi on the floor.


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## Karen Collins (Mar 21, 2013)

ShamaMama said:


> Can those of you who have owned Havanese for more than four months tell me if we can expect Shama to at some point take naps on her little beds in various places in our house (wherever we are)? Right now, she is forever restless and exploring whenever we have her in the wider world of the house. She only really relaxes and sleeps when she's in her crate or when she's on the couch with us at the very end of the day (and even then, it's only at the very end - most of the time when she's on the couch with us, she's in her little bed chewing on pig's ear).


Puppies are very busy. But some rest more than others. Dance as a puppy would settle down more often during the day than Blossom. Blossom almost never rests long during the day. Even when she is lying at my feet or in a bed, she's awake watching what's going on. Personally, I think Blossom is probably a little brighter than Dance....:nerd: She is eager to learn and needs more things to stimulate her active mind.

She's the one who very quickly learned to climb the expen. I discovered the hard way that as Karen Randall said in another post, the taller expen didn't deter her one bit. She only had farther to fall once she got over it. Needless to say, I packed up the ex pens and we use crates and gates.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Karen Collins said:


> Puppies are very busy. But some rest more than others. Dance as a puppy would settle down more often during the day than Blossom. Blossom almost never rests long during the day. Even when she is lying at my feet or in a bed, she's awake watching what's going on. Personally, I think Blossom is probably a little brighter than Dance....:nerd: She is eager to learn and needs more things to stimulate her active mind.
> 
> She's the one who very quickly learned to climb the expen. I discovered the hard way that as Karen Randall said in another post, the taller expen didn't deter her one bit. She only had farther to fall once she got over it. Needless to say, I packed up the ex pens and we use crates and gates.


Yeah, the smart ones are definitely more trouble!!!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Thanks, all!


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