# Double Eye Removal



## cslogan240 (Mar 5, 2020)

We had to get our little guys eyes removed yesterday due to juvenile cataracts. He is only seven but has been blind for a while and had the cataracts at age two. We actually did the cataract surgery on his one eye but it failed about six months after the procedure. This is all due to hereditary issues from bad breeding (Breeder: Noble Gold now Teddy Bear Havanese out of Georgia.) 

We were extremely stressed yesterday mainly because we didn't know how he would look without his sweet eyes. We were less concerned about him being able to adapt because he was already blind and used to his surroundings. We also knew this was the right thing to do because he had glaucoma in both eyes and was in pain constantly. It was also aggravating to him to have to get eye drops two to four times a day. When we picked him up we realized with his dark hair he wasn't going to look bad at all when it grew back out. He was doped up and shaved around his eyes. His eyes are a little swollen the next day and there was a little seepage during the night but all in all he did really well other than being confused by the cone. He's very sleepy today but is eating and seems fine.

I will keep anyone who is interested up to date about his progress. We are also moving to a new house later this year so we are planning to make life around the new home more blind dog friendly. We will put a different textured mat outside of each door to help him learn his way around as touch becomes more important once the eyes are gone. We will also put different bells or "clinkies" onto our other dogs collars so he can tell them apart. We will put gates up to keep him off of the stairs and away from any hazards. The good thing about him not having his eyes is we don't have to worry about him running into something and damaging them anymore. Please ask any questions if you have them and I'll post again in a week or so to give an update.


----------



## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Wow so sorry you have had to go through all this!!! What a nerve wracking time you have had. My neighbor’s standard poodle had an eye removed recently due to cancer but he was old. Your dog is so young. With a great dog mom like you he will have a great quality of life. I think blind dogs adapt well. I have known a few. To a dog, I believe the sense of smell is what they would miss most.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It sounds like you are a wonderful doggy mom! My brother had a Collie who lost one eye to Collie eye at an early age. Of course, he could still see out of his other eye, but he was VERY relieved to be free of the pain in his bad eye.

One thing I did want to mention is that dogs have VERY good noses, and I am SURE your little guy can tell your other dogs apart by their smell, without you putting different sounding bells on them! . In fact, I don’t know if you enjoy sports with your dogs, but I have a friend who did competitive nose work with her blind Dachshund, and she was FANTASTIC at it, winning many prizes at it. They had a wonderful time together doing it!


----------



## cslogan240 (Mar 5, 2020)

*Little Bean*

Thank y'all for the kind words. This little bean is actually a daddy's boy but my wife is definitely a great doggie mom too. HaHa! I like the thought of trying out the scent theory. I read that we can put a drop of scented oil on his favorite toy so he can find it and actually chase after it. I would think the oil would have to be diluted though since their noses are so strong.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

cslogan240 said:


> Thank y'all for the kind words. This little bean is actually a daddy's boy but my wife is definitely a great doggie mom too. HaHa! I like the thought of trying out the scent theory. I read that we can put a drop of scented oil on his favorite toy so he can find it and actually chase after it. I would think the oil would have to be diluted though since their noses are so strong.


Actually, my guess is, he can find that toy without any scent it on it.

My older dog works at utility level in obedience, and one of the exercises he must do in competition is to find an article that I have scented in a pile of identical articles. He must do that twice in a row. I scent the article just by running my hands over it, and placing the article on the judge's clipboard. The judge then places the scented article somewhere in the pile while Kodi and I have our backs turned. He almost never misses, and when he does, it is usually for an understandable reason, like two articles so close together that his nose got on the right article but his mouth closed around the wrong one. (it happens!  )

Even both of my young dogs are progressing very well with this exercise using (empty) Altoid tins. We start with treats inside, progress to empty tins with the lingering scent of treats, but scented with my hands, then eventually washed tins with JUST the scent of my hands. Even though both girls are novice level dogs, both can currently find the right tin out of 5 tins! (and they LOVE the game!)


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> Actually, my guess is, he can find that toy without any scent it on it.
> 
> My older dog works at utility level in obedience, and one of the exercises he must do in competition is to find an article that I have scented in a pile of identical articles. He must do that twice in a row. I scent the article just by running my hands over it, and placing the article on the judge's clipboard. The judge then places the scented article somewhere in the pile while Kodi and I have our backs turned. He almost never misses, and when he does, it is usually for an understandable reason, like two articles so close together that his nose got on the right article but his mouth closed around the wrong one. (it happens!  )
> 
> Even both of my young dogs are progressing very well with this exercise using (empty) Altoid tins. We start with treats inside, progress to empty tins with the lingering scent of treats, but scented with my hands, then eventually washed tins with JUST the scent of my hands. Even though both girls are novice level dogs, both can currently find the right tin out of 5 tins! (and they LOVE the game!)


I'm trying this ASAP! Mine LOVES nosework games! My Havanese loves it no matter what, but sometimes I get a little bored and incorporating something new, like the altoid tins, is really fun for me. I would like to do a real class but they are too far away to work with my schedule.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I'm trying this ASAP! Mine LOVES nosework games! My Havanese loves it no matter what, but sometimes I get a little bored and incorporating something new, like the altoid tins, is really fun for me. I would like to do a real class but they are too far away to work with my schedule.


If you actually EAT Altoids, use those. Otherwise, you can often find tins at the dollar store with either cotton swabs or little children's puzzles in them. Or these on Amazon work too:

https://smile.amazon.com/Bekith-Rec...=sr_1_46?keywords=tins&qid=1583620518&sr=8-46

You want to keep your "clean" ones in one plastic bag and handle them as little as possible. Keep your "hot" one (the one that you first put food in, and then put your scent on) in a separate plastic bag so that the scent from that one doesn't get on the others. Mark the "hot" one in some way with a marker, so you can tell which one it is, without it being super obvious to the dog. (for instance, you don't want the whole thing to be a different color, or to have tape on it, or "feel" different)

To start with, have several tiny. REALLY yummy treats in the "hot" tin and start with just two tins. The dog will naturally be interested and move toward the tins, smell the goodies and sniff the one with the goodies. IMMEDIATELY click (or if you don't use a clicker, use a marker word) and take a cookie RIGHT out of the tin and give it to the dog, telling them HOW SMART THEY ARE! Then mix the tins up and have them do it again. Keep it close. I get down on my knees with the dog, and just hold them back with one hand, shifting the position of the boxes with the other. Do it until you run out of treats in the box. That's enough reps for that day. Before long, you will see that they immediately are finding and clearly indicating the right box. Then add another box and another, until they can reliably find the one with cookies out of 10 or 12 boxes. THEN you are ready to start reducing the food and getting them to find the scent of your hands. But that is another lesson and several weeks away!

Eventually, your dog will get good enough at the game that they won't need the treat smell. just your own, fresh, scent will be enough. At that point, it also won't matter whether there is some "old" scent on the tins. (or articles, if you graduate to those... traditional obedience articles are something the dog picks up and brings back to you. they often, though not always, look like little dumbbells) They will be able to tell the difference between "hot" scent and "cold" scent. But that takes time.


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

cslogan240 said:


> We had to get our little guys eyes removed yesterday due to juvenile cataracts. He is only seven but has been blind for a while and had the cataracts at age two. We actually did the cataract surgery on his one eye but it failed about six months after the procedure. This is all due to hereditary issues from bad breeding (Breeder: Noble Gold now Teddy Bear Havanese out of Georgia.)
> 
> We were extremely stressed yesterday mainly because we didn't know how he would look without his sweet eyes. We were less concerned about him being able to adapt because he was already blind and used to his surroundings. We also knew this was the right thing to do because he had glaucoma in both eyes and was in pain constantly. It was also aggravating to him to have to get eye drops two to four times a day. When we picked him up we realized with his dark hair he wasn't going to look bad at all when it grew back out. He was doped up and shaved around his eyes. His eyes are a little swollen the next day and there was a little seepage during the night but all in all he did really well other than being confused by the cone. He's very sleepy today but is eating and seems fine.
> 
> I will keep anyone who is interested up to date about his progress. We are also moving to a new house later this year so we are planning to make life around the new home more blind dog friendly. We will put a different textured mat outside of each door to help him learn his way around as touch becomes more important once the eyes are gone. We will also put different bells or "clinkies" onto our other dogs collars so he can tell them apart. We will put gates up to keep him off of the stairs and away from any hazards. The good thing about him not having his eyes is we don't have to worry about him running into something and damaging them anymore. Please ask any questions if you have them and I'll post again in a week or so to give an update.


:crying:...sounds like you got a Plan. This is such a Sad! story it makes me cry and I don't even know the dog or you. No doubt after time, things will be Good and the Dog Happier to not be in pain.


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

cslogan240 said:


> We had to get our little guys eyes removed yesterday due to juvenile cataracts. He is only seven but has been blind for a while and had the cataracts at age two. We actually did the cataract surgery on his one eye but it failed about six months after the procedure. This is all due to hereditary issues from bad breeding (Breeder: Noble Gold now Teddy Bear Havanese out of Georgia.)
> 
> We were extremely stressed yesterday mainly because we didn't know how he would look without his sweet eyes. We were less concerned about him being able to adapt because he was already blind and used to his surroundings. We also knew this was the right thing to do because he had glaucoma in both eyes and was in pain constantly. It was also aggravating to him to have to get eye drops two to four times a day. When we picked him up we realized with his dark hair he wasn't going to look bad at all when it grew back out. He was doped up and shaved around his eyes. His eyes are a little swollen the next day and there was a little seepage during the night but all in all he did really well other than being confused by the cone. He's very sleepy today but is eating and seems fine.
> 
> I will keep anyone who is interested up to date about his progress. We are also moving to a new house later this year so we are planning to make life around the new home more blind dog friendly. We will put a different textured mat outside of each door to help him learn his way around as touch becomes more important once the eyes are gone. We will also put different bells or "clinkies" onto our other dogs collars so he can tell them apart. We will put gates up to keep him off of the stairs and away from any hazards. The good thing about him not having his eyes is we don't have to worry about him running into something and damaging them anymore. Please ask any questions if you have them and I'll post again in a week or so to give an update.


:crying:...sounds like you got a Plan. This is such a Sad! story it makes me cry and I don't even know the dog or you. No doubt after time, things will be Good and the Dog Happier to not be in pain. Makes one realize there are lots of things we have to be thankful for.


----------



## cslogan240 (Mar 5, 2020)

No crying Mikki. This is for the best. Of course it would have been best if he never had the eye problems but this is where we are now. We actually feel lucky that he ended up with us. I will say that he seems great today. He seems to be out of pain for the first time in forever. Other than trying to scratch (thank goodness for the cone) he seems to be doing really well. He had not been eating before the surgery and now he's cleaning his bowl. It doesn't hurt that I put a scrambled egg in there for him, since he had surgery, but I think his appetite is definitely better. Now we get to figure out a cool haircut for him so his eyes, or lack there of, don't show. One thing about having the eyes removed is they don't remove the muscles that were around the eyes so he still has facial expressions and that's making it not so bad. We were really concerned about how he would look but are quickly realizing we won't be able to tell his eyes are gone with the right hairdo.


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

cslogan240 said:


> No crying Mikki. This is for the best. Of course it would have been best if he never had the eye problems but this is where we are now. We actually feel lucky that he ended up with us. I will say that he seems great today. He seems to be out of pain for the first time in forever. Other than trying to scratch (thank goodness for the cone) he seems to be doing really well. He had not been eating before the surgery and now he's cleaning his bowl. It doesn't hurt that I put a scrambled egg in there for him, since he had surgery, but I think his appetite is definitely better. Now we get to figure out a cool haircut for him so his eyes, or lack there of, don't show. One thing about having the eyes removed is they don't remove the muscles that were around the eyes so he still has facial expressions and that's making it not so bad. We were really concerned about how he would look but are quickly realizing we won't be able to tell his eyes are gone with the right hairdo.


:crying::crying::crying: Tears are streaming down my eyes. :crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:

Yes!! things are going to be good. You better keep giving him Scrambled Eggs with his dinner or I'll be over there to give a - What For. You've been through a lot!!! Bless You and those that take in and care for our helpless little dogs and animals!!!

Thanks Goodness he ended up in you.


----------



## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Karen mentioned the dog's relief after enucleation. I work at an animal hospital and have seen dozens of dogs pre and post enucleation. Even with the ones who lose two, the change in demeanor I have seen in every single one is astounding. They walk in the clinic like a brand new dog. It is completely heartbreaking that the surgery was necessary, but I hope you're finding peace in the fact that your buddy is going to feel so much better.


----------



## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

I have a client who has become a really good friend in San Francisco. He had a black Cocker Spaniel, Rocky, since a puppy. I guess Rocky would be around 13 y.o. now. I met Rocky in his home for the first and only time about 3 years ago. Rocky had both eyes removed about a year before that and he was happy, hungry, and adapting well. My friend lived in a historic Victorian home that had survived the Great San Francisco Fire and earthquake over 100 years ago. Almost from day one after his surgery, Rocky could find his way around the complicated floor plan of the house as if he was sighted. He knew where everything was and could follow commands like, "go to the bedroom" without hesitation or confusion Evidently he was doing this recall through scent and rote memory. He would come to me, a total stranger, directly by "come" through voice recognition and associated scent. I was honestly impressed and encouraged. Apparently Rocky's other senses had vastly improved to compensate for his loss of sight. I guess the Vet forgot to tell Rocky that he was now handicapped because Rocky didn't know it.

Rocky died last year from other hereditary health issues. My friend was devastated. He has yet to get another dog and doesn't know if he ever will because there is no replacing his Rocky. My friend knows Ricky Ricardo very well and they are best friends when we are all on vacation in Mexico. He says he gets his "Rocky fix" when he reunites with Ricky.

I wish I could adapt as well as Rocky did to increasing disabilities and handicaps as I age up. Dogs are an inspiration to me.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

@ricky's Popi ... Yes we can learn a lot from our furry buddies.

This thread has been exceptionally emotional for me and I'm not not normally - exceptionally - emotional. I know from experience having an old dog who was blind and hard-of-hearing how well she got around. I don't know that I would have known she was blind if the Vet had not told me she was.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

cslogan240 said:


> No crying Mikki. This is for the best. Of course it would have been best if he never had the eye problems but this is where we are now. We actually feel lucky that he ended up with us. I will say that he seems great today. He seems to be out of pain for the first time in forever. Other than trying to scratch (thank goodness for the cone) he seems to be doing really well. He had not been eating before the surgery and now he's cleaning his bowl. It doesn't hurt that I put a scrambled egg in there for him, since he had surgery, but I think his appetite is definitely better. Now we get to figure out a cool haircut for him so his eyes, or lack there of, don't show. One thing about having the eyes removed is they don't remove the muscles that were around the eyes so he still has facial expressions and that's making it not so bad. We were really concerned about how he would look but are quickly realizing we won't be able to tell his eyes are gone with the right hairdo.


I just realized that you are right! With a Havanese, you no longer have to worry about "hair covering his eyes"! <3


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> If you actually EAT Altoids, use those. Otherwise, you can often find tins at the dollar store with either cotton swabs or little children's puzzles in them. Or these on Amazon work too:
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/Bekith-Rec...=sr_1_46?keywords=tins&qid=1583620518&sr=8-46
> 
> ...


I haven't done this yet, but since you mentioned the "hot" ones, I noticed something. Sundance is obsessed with plastic mechanical pencils, and if I leave one within his reach it's unusable because even if it only takes 2 seconds to get it back, that's all it takes to chew the tip shut so the lead won't come out. A few weeks ago I was cleaning out the office and gathered up a stack of broken mechanical pencils my kids had put away in the drawer. I thought the big pile of chewed pencils was kind of funny so I stuck them in his bed. But even though I gave him all of these pencils, he rarely touches them. I thought maybe he didn't care about them anymore since the erasers are gone.

Anyway, I've been working on a project involving a lot of marking with a pencil and I have to spread it out on the floor. I usually protect my pencils but I figured he has this pile of pencils in his bed so he won't take mine. I went through 3 pencils on Sunday and then I realized he's specifically taking the one I'm using! Since the "hot" objects were on my mind, I mixed them all up and he picks up the one I've used and runs off with it every time. It is a different color so it's possible he's identifying it by color, but then it occurred to me that part of the reason this has been so crazy in our house is because he ALWAYS takes the one I'm using. So if there is already a chewed pencil next to him and I go get a new one, he'll take the new one if I forget about it. I can leave food and a pencil I just used on the end table and he'll leave the food and take the pencil. I have considered it could be the motion he's attracted to, but he takes them when I set it down. I'm trying to find a way to play around with this now, but I'm not sure how. I want to see if I can find a few of the same color around the house to play with.

Regardless, I'm really motivated to play with treats in tins, I just need to finish up my project!!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I haven't done this yet, but since you mentioned the "hot" ones, I noticed something. Sundance is obsessed with plastic mechanical pencils, and if I leave one within his reach it's unusable because even if it only takes 2 seconds to get it back, that's all it takes to chew the tip shut so the lead won't come out. A few weeks ago I was cleaning out the office and gathered up a stack of broken mechanical pencils my kids had put away in the drawer. I thought the big pile of chewed pencils was kind of funny so I stuck them in his bed. But even though I gave him all of these pencils, he rarely touches them. I thought maybe he didn't care about them anymore since the erasers are gone.
> 
> Anyway, I've been working on a project involving a lot of marking with a pencil and I have to spread it out on the floor. I usually protect my pencils but I figured he has this pile of pencils in his bed so he won't take mine. I went through 3 pencils on Sunday and then I realized he's specifically taking the one I'm using! Since the "hot" objects were on my mind, I mixed them all up and he picks up the one I've used and runs off with it every time. It is a different color so it's possible he's identifying it by color, but then it occurred to me that part of the reason this has been so crazy in our house is because he ALWAYS takes the one I'm using. So if there is already a chewed pencil next to him and I go get a new one, he'll take the new one if I forget about it. I can leave food and a pencil I just used on the end table and he'll leave the food and take the pencil. I have considered it could be the motion he's attracted to, but he takes them when I set it down. I'm trying to find a way to play around with this now, but I'm not sure how. I want to see if I can find a few of the same color around the house to play with.
> 
> Regardless, I'm really motivated to play with treats in tins, I just need to finish up my project!!


Very interesting! It does seem like he might be picking up your "hot" scent!


----------



## cslogan240 (Mar 5, 2020)

Do you use a good smelling lotion on your hands? He might love that lotion! HaHa


----------



## cslogan240 (Mar 5, 2020)

BamBam is doing great. Just a little itchy, but the cone is protecting him from getting to his stitches. He seems to be much happier but we are still having to restrict him from getting to playful. He still gets a scra-Bam-bled egg every now and again. He will get the stitches out next week and the cone will come off then we should really be able to tell how he's doing. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

cslogan240 said:


> Do you use a good smelling lotion on your hands? He might love that lotion! HaHa


Even better according to Patti... "is a srivelled and dried up worm. It almost better than a srivelled and dried up snake to roll in." :|

The suns out. It's in the 70s and Patti has been outside all day rolling around in dried grass. I'll be doing a lot of vacuuming tomorrow.:wink2:


----------



## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

Sounds good so far if you have to restrict his playfulness!
I always feel so bad for any dog with a cone. They all really seem to hate it. Happy to hear that he is doing well.


----------



## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

cslogan240 said:


> BamBam is doing great. Just a little itchy, but the cone is protecting him from getting to his stitches. He seems to be much happier but we are still having to restrict him from getting to playful. He still gets a scra-Bam-bled egg every now and again. He will get the stitches out next week and the cone will come off then we should really be able to tell how he's doing. I'll keep you posted.


Please give him a belly rub for me. Glad he's doing well.


----------



## Mountain mom (Aug 13, 2019)

You are an amazing dog mom and your little one is so lucky to have you. I have so much admiration for you. Will be praying for both of you!


----------



## Aimee (Dec 29, 2019)

I'm sorry for your little boy's condition. :crying: Is it possible for a blind Havanese to do Zoomies? or maybe modified Zoomies?


----------



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

BamBam is very lucky to have you. He sounds like a sweetheart! Please do keep us posted. Shama is jealous of any dog that gets to have bangs au naturel!


----------



## cslogan240 (Mar 5, 2020)

He hasn't gotten the Zoomies in a while but maybe now that he's not in as much pain he will catch a Zoomie spell. It will definitely have to be outside in the open field though. Zoomies+ No Eyes+ Furniture= Knocked Out Bam! Joking of course. He seems to know when he's in the clear and takes off. The problem, which is funny sometimes, is he seems to always head right for the places he shouldn't be. Like straight for the creek, or under the car, or a muddy spot. We just pick him up and spin him to a safer direction and he continues like nothing happened. HaHa! It's like having Mr. Magoo on the farm.


----------



## cslogan240 (Mar 5, 2020)

Bam got his stitches out yesterday and is doing great. He seems much happier and energetic than before the surgery. He also seems to not be running into things as bad. We think he might have been seeing a tiny bit of light in one eye and that had been causing him to not use his other senses as much. Now he will take off running and then stop right before he runs into something. We can tell from his attitude that he's not in pain anymore so that's the biggest relief for him and us. He gets his hair cut today at noon so we will start figuring out his new look. His eyes healed up really smooth and clean. This will let the hair grow back and cover his face so no one will be able to tell he's missing his eyes. He also still has all the eye and face muscles so his sweet and cute facial expressions are the same. I'll get a picture up when his hair grows in some. Thank you all for the nice comments and replies. Have a great weekend.


----------



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Thanks so much for the update! Hope to one day see his picture.


----------



## cslogan240 (Mar 5, 2020)

*Checking Back In: 2 Month Review*

Good morning all. BamBam is doing fantastic since his surgery. He had one little hiccup with a stitch being left in and getting a little infected but we were right on top of it and got it removed and him on some antibiotics. I've attached some pictures of him from this morning. His hair is still shorter on his face where they shaved for his surgery but once it has grown out I don't think anyone will be able to tell his eyes are gone. He still has all his cute facial features and couldn't be happier. I really wish we had done this sooner and skipped the cataract removal surgery. He has been super playful, eating much better, and he will let us pet his sweet little head again. It's like his other senses kicked into high gear also. Before the eye removal he would bump into everything. Now he will run right up to something, even new things, and stop before crashing into it. He has started playing with his toys again and will even play fetch which he hasn't done in years. It's amazing watching him find the thrown toy. It's almost like he can see again. He even walked around the farm the other day off leash for 1/2 mile just by following our footsteps. We wouldn't let him do that before because we were scared he would run into something and poke his eye. Now we don't have to worry about that anymore. I will continue adding updates and pictures as he progresses. Thank you all for your support and well wishes through all of this. Stay safe.


----------



## Dexter and Reia’s mom (Feb 20, 2020)

So glad to hear he’s doing well and is so happy!❤


----------



## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

I’m glad to hear that he is doing so much better than he was!


----------



## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

So good to hear BamBam is doing so much better. ❤


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

What a wonderful update! I am so glad to hear he is doing so well, and, of course, he looks absolutely adorable too!


----------



## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Great update!


----------



## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Wonderful news! Looks adorable and happy!


----------



## Aimee (Dec 29, 2019)

Oh, he's a handsome fella! Now he feels as good as he looks! What a marvelous outcome for all! :smile2:


----------



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

What a sweet boy! Thanks for the updates!


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

What a wonderful update and end result. I was cringing with tears steaming down my face when you first told us about a double eye removal. Thanks for letting everyone know there's a Good Ending.


----------

