# Poop on the floor as revenge?



## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

I like to think that Momo is potty trained. Well....99%. I was so proud of him when I took him upstairs in the carpet area (he's usually not allowed there) for like 30 mins, took him back downstairs and he went to his WizDog and peed right away. I see it as, he knows not to pee on carpet.

Yay!

But, lately, he's been pooping on the floor about 75 % of the time when we are not in the room with him. When I am there, he poops correctly 100% of the time. If I am in another part of the house, he would whine and then bark a couple times, and then quiet. I go check on him and he'll be in his crate and there'll be poop on the floor next to the wizdog. I feel like that's his way of saying "You ignored me, so I get back at you by pooping on the floor".

Every time he poops right, he's lavished with praise and treats. If not, he's crated from 1-6 hours.

It's driving us nuts! My fiance is now insisting that we lock him up if we are not in the room with him. I don't want to do that to him, but what else can I do???


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

People with lots more knowledge will reply but here's my two cents...dogs don't do things out of revenge. It's up to us to teach them what's right. Some people have had success by spreading food around where the dog is going because they won't soil where they eat. I wouldn't punish him though, he won't understand.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't believe there is such as thing as "get even" or "payback" with a dog. That is just not possible.

I do think you need to monitor him very very closely or crate him. It may seem harsh--but he will learn......


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

I know it's all in my head. I need to get inside his head! Why is he doing this? He is so good when I am around.

The spreading food on the floor idea is interesting. I am going to try that next time.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

As already stated, dogs don't have the capacity to show revenge.

Your fiance is correct that his freedom does need to be limited when you cannot watch him. Here is a great article on housetraining and tips on teaching your dog to love his confinement: http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/errorless-housetraining


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

If you really want to get inside his head, there are a lot of good books out there. I highly recommend reading "[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1888047054?ie=UTF8&tag=thereciperack&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1888047054"]_Culture Clash_" by Jean Donaldson[/ame] or even [ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1888047062?ie=UTF8&tag=thereciperack&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1888047062"]"_How To Teach a New Dog Old Tricks_" by Dr. Ian Dunbar[/ame]. Both of these canine experts explain it quite well so it makes sense how dogs act and react.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

There is another possibility... he may just not like to poop where he pees. You will notice that unlike us ... dogs will have their favorite places outside to do each. We had this problem with Jasper when we were training him for using pads inside... we added another pee pad in another tray and he was fine from there on out... and he would always use one tray to pee and the other to poo.


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

Missy,

He does have 2 wizdog pads next to each other. I noticed that he doesn't like to pee and poop on the same pad. So, when he has accidents and I see that he has peed and pooped on the pads already, then I don't crate him.

Thanks for the tips everyone. I will definitely read the recommended articles and books.


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Just wondering how old Momo is? 

Sissy is 4 yrs. old now and she is so regular with the pooping. She goes once in the morning when she first gets up and then goes again between 7-8:30 p.m. She is a bell ringer so the peeing is just easy during the day.

So maybe with time he will get a routine.


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## Renee (Mar 27, 2008)

Julie said:


> I don't believe there is such as thing as "get even" or "payback" with a dog. That is just not possible.QUOTE]
> 
> Ohhhhh, you must never have owned a poodle!  I've seen the revenge thing *first hand *from our poodle, DJ (may he rest in peace). And his mom, owned my DH's brother, also did the revenge thing. She would poop in front of whoever's recliner she was mad at, and if there was overnight company, she would poop on their pillow.
> 
> ...


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Renee said:


> Julie said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe there is such as thing as "get even" or "payback" with a dog. That is just not possible.QUOTE]
> ...


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I didn't read al; the post but are you sure he is not just missing the wizdog. Smarty is very paper trained for times when she has to be left alone or at night. She sometimes misses her papers with her circles, but she is close and I would never think of punishment for that.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

SMARTY said:


> I didn't read al; the post but are you sure he is not just missing the wizdog. Smarty is very paper trained for times when she has to be left alone or at night. She sometimes misses her papers with her circles, but she is close and I would never think of punishment for that.


Sandi~ Tori sounds a bit like Smarty. Here's her ritual: She circles and circles on the pad, starts to poop, then begins slowly walking in her hunched position as she finishes the job. Sometimes her final dropping can end up several feet from where she started, especially if it gets hung up in her coat. But, I know she always starts out in the right place so, I'd never punish her for that, either. Anyone know how to stop a "walking pooper"??? ound:


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Leslie said:


> Anyone know how to stop a "walking pooper"??? ound:


Too funny!ound:ound:


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Leslie, Lincoln and Scout are walking poopers too...but they have a large area to do their "walk-n-poop" :biggrin1:


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

Oooo Momo does that sometimes too, but I can tell when he starts off on the wizdog and ends up on the floor. Then, I don't punish him.

He has been consistently pooping on the floor for the past 2 days. It's gotten so bad that I think he's been out of his crate for only a few hours a day.

Like tonight, I came home and he was in his crate for pooping on the floor 8 hours earlier. I let him out, put him on the wizdog...told him to pee. Nothing. So I just fed him, played with him for 30 mins...i put some food down where he usually poops on the floor..then I went upstairs to change into my pjs. it took really....just 5 minutes. I came back down, and the food is gone and there's poop at that spot. 

*sigh*


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Joyce, I'm not understanding why he would be in his crate all that time after pooping 8 hours previously. He won't connect the punishment with the crime. Is it possible he's not getting enough exercise or attention? So it's a form of rebellion? 

I have always used an ex-pen rather than a crate as a training method during the day. At first, when they are little puppies, there's a pee-pad in the ex-pen. Eventually, all the peeing/pooping moves outside, but if I am unsure that they haven't gone recently, I use the ex-pen as a holding zone. For some reason my dogs NEVER violate this space & poop or pee. They will hold it forever, til we get home from going to a movie,etc. 

In any case, go back to square one, and take him out to pee/poo frequently, after meals, playtime, etc. and otherwise confine him to a small area til he is flawless again. 
This should work more quickly than you think. . .good luck!


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

How old is Momo? I remember Biscuit totally regressing at 10months. I was very strict, just as if I were starting to train him all over again, and it all disappeared in a week. I'm not sure how the wizdog plays into all this, does he always use it, or sometimes go outside too?


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## snfager (Sep 29, 2006)

I don't know about Havs but we had a poodle that was definitely into punishing us by pooping right in front of the door whenever we left her home alone.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I am not in agreement with crating as punishment for pooping on the floor. If you are using the crate to keep him safe and no mishaps while you are busy or away that is another situation. I would go back to square one. If he has a poop on the floor, tell him no, then take him and the poop to the proper location and give him a "good boy party" after he smells the poop in the right place. Some dogs do regress for a while, you just have to find a happy place that works. I would give a treat for outside/wizpad poops and pees for a while, if the "crazy praise" is not working.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Joyce, you've gotten some good advice already. I just wanted to say that I don't agree with crating as a punishment either. I would rather crate Momo let's say overnight, take him out first thing in the morning (maybe even carry him), put him where he's supposed to potty (maybe even with a leash to keep him from wandering). If he does, PRAISE/TREAT, if he doesn't after 10-15 min., pick him up and put him in his crate for 10-15 min and then try the same procedure again until you are successful. If you do this consistently, it will eventually click.There's no way Momo can understand that you are punishing him for pooping on the floor when you put him in the crate for 8 hours.


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

Amy R

I meant that.... he pooped on the floor in the morning, so I crated him. He was in there for 8 hours. I came back, let him out.......then he pooped on the floor again.

He's at 11 months now. He uses the Wizdog most of the time. When he's nice outside, then I let him out in the yard and he'll do his business there sometimes.

Smarty,

I never thought of/heard of moving the poop in the right place! I'll try that. I always treat him when he potties in the right spot and he always does when I am in the same room. It's only when I am not watching him, that he poops 2 feet away from the wizdogs.



Thanks for the tips


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

swtxsweetie said:


> *Like tonight, I came home and he was in his crate for pooping on the floor 8 hours earlier. I let him out, put him on the wizdog...told him to pee. Nothing. So I just fed him, played with him for 30 mins...i put some food down where he usually poops on the floor..then I went upstairs to change into my pjs. it took really....just 5 minutes. I came back down, and the food is gone and there's poop at that spot. *
> 
> *sigh*


This seem to be a clue to me as to what is going wrong. I think that if he has been in the crate for a good while, then you need to take him outside the minute you let him out of his crate. The walking around will get things moving and I think he will then pee. You said you fed him then played for 30 min ~ "then went upstairs to change". Most dogs need to potty after a meal...and after 30 minutes of play. Both get their systems ready for potty. I think when you went upstairs and the action stopped, he relaxed and pooped. Walking or running outside will usually make them potty. Try to think of doing the things that will get him to potty....and always take him out after eating and playing. I hope this will help.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I know every dog is different .. Tulip poops only twice a day when she is at home and everything is normal ..
She comes to my house for a playdate with the boys and what is the first thing she does pees and poops .. She could have done her business at home and yet when she comes to my house she goes again ..
Excitement or change in daily routine may cause changes which set them off ..
One thing I have to remember with my dogs is that even though they go in the morning as soon as they get up they seem to have to go again after they eat .. so I have to remember to take them out again ..Cosmo barks to let me know but not all the time ..
I have never found this breed that easy to potty train . It was much easier with my shorthair puppy he got it in no time .. He ratrely had an accident .
If I cannot supervise the dogs I leave them in their crate or a fenced area . I notice if their routine is changed ie I have guests or sleepover company that is when they may slip .. I do not see it as revenge I see it that I am distracted and they feel that the opportunity is there so why bother Mom .
I have trained my dogs on training pads but I do not find they transition well off the pads . All small throw rugs are fair game so it seems most of my rugs have been picked up .. 
I read a book on small dogs are it did say smaller dogs are more difficult to train but they really did not give good reasons .. 
I have a friend who has a Bichon and as soon as he comes in my home he starts his marking .He is fine at home .. I took my dogs to his house and they did the same thing as I assume the scent is in the house and they felt it was OK ..


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

i agree, dogs don't know "revenge". i know my dog won't poop where he pees, maybe his poop pad needs to be someplace else. punishment doesn't solve the issue. if he whines and barks, he's telling you he needs to go out, ar you leaving him out long enough? i know when my dog was a puppy he's linger outside and took him forever to do his business.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I didn't know that! Dexter does pee and poop in different areas. Have not thought of two puppy pads. Had not thought about moving poop to the outside and training again. I can't move pee though and that............... is the problem. 

Dexter can be a walk/poop or it could be a poop. But...................he does take forever finding that special spot..........Especially when I am freezing!


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

Ok, just wanted to report the progress. I have stopped crating him for pooping on the floor. I have told him "No, Bad Momo" when he pooped on the floor. Then I put the poop on the pee pad and made him look at it (by putting a treat in front of it...i know gross) and praising him and giving him 3 pieces of treats. 

I have also put food on the floor where he pooped (after I cleaned it).

He did not pooped correctly without me in the room at all this whole weekend. This morning before I left, I put a huge box over the spot that he usually poops on the floor. We'll see what happens when I get home.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Good for you, let us know if it worked.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

that natures miracle spray, i think that's what it's called should be used on that spot as well. it's got a stinky smell that dogs don't like and they won't go back to that spot (usually) agian. what is your feeding scheudle? that could be a part of the problem as well. my dog poops first thing in the morning, 6 a.m.and then again 3-4:00 in the afternoon like clockwork. are you free feeding?


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

Natures miracle spray is like the bitter apple spray right? 

Great Idea!

So....got home yesterday and there was a piece of poop in the middle of the living room. I was about to be really upset, till my fiance told me that he pooped right. There's still a piece of it on the pad. He saw it. He just didn't pick it up before he left the house. So, I punished him instead of Momo 

So, I guess Momo did alright yesterday! He just took a little piece out and ate some. The never ending poop drama...


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

swtxsweetie said:


> Natures miracle spray is like the bitter apple spray right?


 No, they are completely different. Nature's Miracle is an enzymatic cleaner to remove stains and odors.

Grannick's Bitter Apple spray is meant to discourage fur chewing, soothing hot spots, but is also used often for spraying on furniture or other items that you don't want dogs to chew.


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

Ooo I do use Nature's Miracle spray to clean the floor after he pooped there. But that doesn't deter him at all.

I feel him twice a day (11am and 9pm), but I don't really pick up the food if he doesn't eat right away.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

no, it comes in a white bottle with red lettering, i mgiht be off on the name but it's used on vomit, pee, poop, etc. it makes the area smell funny to the dog so that he doesn't pee on the same spot.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

You can buy a product called Get Serious .. You can buy it online or at Petsmart. It is pricey but I think it works better than Nature's Miracle as far as the phermone removal .. .
You must follow the directions but a little goes a long way ..
The one thing my vet told me was to pick their food up after 15minutes even if they do not eat it or eat it all .. Make them wait for the next meal and realize they must realize that you have control of the food .. It takes time but they get it .. 
As I said Before Tulip is like a clock she poops at the same time every day except when she comes to visit me then she does extra peeing and pooping ..
Tulip 's life is very ordered most days .. She rarely breaks her schedule . It took a long time to potty break her but her Daddy did it and she got it bigtime .. 
My dogs are pretty good as well but as I said before it is when I am distracted and overscheduled and busy that they get out of line .. 
I keep them crated or they are gated in the kitchen where there is less damage to be done ..
I have picked up all my throw rugs also .. I realized it was just not worth it .


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

Does Get Serious work on wooden floors? It looks like it's for carpet.


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