# Does anyone knows Laure A. Braun?



## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Anyone ever heard of this person/breeder?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

RUN- sells to petstores and many different breeds

http://www.petshoppuppies.com/report.asp?ID=48b0043b


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

LOL. YES, I know she does.

A bit of background as of why I am asking. My sister got a Havanese about 2-3 months ago from a puppy store. Not the best choice, but their choice nevertheless. The pup is the sweetest thing. 

We have been trying to find some background on him. She has all his papers, so far I have gone as far back as grandparents but I can't find anything on them. :smow:


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

who has the papers? your sister or this Laurie person?


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Sister


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Go to the Havanese Gallery www.havanesegallery.hu and enter the dog there. Make sure you have the correct spelling and punctuation on the parents' names when you list him there. You may find most of your info populates itself.

When you register the dog there, you will be given a password so you can go back and make changes later. SAVE THE PASSWORD because you will not get a response on the web site if you ask for help.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks! I'll have her check it out!


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## Anne Streeter (Apr 14, 2009)

It is just a coincidence that I saw this as I was wandering around the forum! We bought one of her puppies 4 weeks ago - but not from a pet store. We got her directly from Laure's brother who brought her to Montana from Nebraska. Havanese are very hard to find here and we were thrilled to get her. She is now 12 weeks old, healthy and adorable. I talked to Laure on the phone and she sounded very responsible. Probably this was not the ideal way to acquire a puppy but I had been looking for 6 months and did want to meet the people that I bought a puppy from.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

*Here is the report of the inspection of her "kennel"*
*It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach.*
*Here in Nebraska, where we have 1 inspector for the entire state.*
*Until this gets taken care of, please don't ask me to fight any anti-breeder legislation.*

*Description: *ROUTINE INSPECTION
*Date: *2/4/2003
*Inspection File: *None Available
*Notes: *The pens 3, 9, 12, 13, & 15, from the west, metal doors are broken or coming of the wall. These doors are in need of repair. This could injure 15 animals or affect the health of the animals.

The various plastic pvc pipe legs are in need of repair. The legs are leaning and need of striating to provide strong support for the hog flooring. This could injure 40 animals do to the flooring coming apart.

Pen 7 from the west metal insert is coming apart/showing sharp edges and or worn and in need of repair. This could injure 3 animals.

The 4 unit plug-in on the wall of the whelping building is in need of a cover. This could injure 25 animals. 5. The electrical junction box on the ceiling has wire hanging down, which could injure 25 animals. The box is in need of covering/repair.

An extension cord plug into a fan connection is in water on the floor. This could injure 25 animals. The connection should be removed from the water on the floor.

During the inspection water waste was standing in the resident floor area of the kennel. The drainage system should be open, so the water waste can drain. This could affect the health of 50 animals.

An odor present during the inspection in the resident area of the kennel. Additional ventilation is needed, for this could affect the health of 50 animals. Also, the room felt humid during the inspection.

Additional lighting is needed in the resident dog kennel area. During the inspection the room was not lighted well enough. This is for inspection purposes and proper animal husbandry observations of the animals, which could affect the health of 50 animals.

The plug receptacle in the wall and heater has brown dirt and cob webs, which needed cleaned. This could injure the animals or affect their health of the animals, affecting 25.

Non-compliant item(s) previously identified that have been corrected: Item(s) 2.40(b), 2.50 3.1(c)(3), & 3.11(a) have been corrected.

This inspection and exit interview was conducted with; Laure Braun(Owner) and Randall R. Wagner (ACI).

Last inspection was 6-12-02.

*Description: *ROUTINE INSPECTION
*Date: *6/12/2002
*Inspection File: *None Available
*Notes: ** One bottle of Gentomicin sulfate is dated Jan 02. Medications should be in date and soiled medications could cause health problems to the animals. This effects 118 animals. To be corrected by: 6-12-02.

* 12 animals do not have a U.S.D.A. identification. All animals must be I. D. With a tag, tattoo, or microchip. To be corrected by: 6-30-02.

* Their is evidence of a horse that lives around the outside portion of the kennel. Their is no barrier between the horse and the kennel. A barrier is needed between the outside runs an the horse. The owner stated that their is a horse nearby, also, their is evidence of the animals by tracks in the mud and horse fecal matter. This effects 80 animals.

* The eight pen to the left, from the door, has a rubber hose connected to the PVC pipe watering system. This connection is leaking a steady stream of water into the bulldog enclosure. This could cause health problems to the animals. Also, the connection is in need of repair. This effects five animals.

* From the door, the first eight pens to the left, PVC pipe plastic waters have an brown film on them. This brown film is in need of cleaning. Also, this could cause health problems to the animals. This effects 10 animals. To be corrected by: 6-13-02.

* The north corner of the outside portion of the runs, has a low area that allows for pooling of the water. This area is evident by the mud and the area is 2' wide by 41/2' long. This is a breeding are for pest and could cause health problems to the animals. This effects 30 animals. Additional substrate material is need for proper drainage. To be corrected by: 7-15-02.

* During the inspection their was a order present in the whelping/resident area with animals. This ammonia smelling order could possibly cause health problems to the animals. Additional ventilation is needed. This effects 118 animals. To be corrected by: 6-30-02.

* Additional light is needed in the shelter building. Their is two light bulbs used to light a 40' long by 15' wide building as stated by the owner. Additional lighting is needed for cleaning do to this possibly cause health problems to the animals. Also, light, itself, is needed for the health of the animals. This effects 80 animals. To be corrected by: 6-30-02.

* From the whelping area door, second stacked pens to the left, top first pen, has dog fecal matter stuck in flooring. This fecal matter covers 40% of a 30" wide by 30" pen as described by the owner.

* From the whelping area door, two pens to the left have soiled shredded paper that is in need of cleaning. This soiled paper covers 60% of 4' wide by 4' long pens. These two item(s) could cause health problems to the animals and are in need of cleaning. Also, the soiled paper could cause ammonia levels to rise. This effects nine animals. To be corrected by: 6-13-02.

* The resident area of the shelter building has bags of cement( with some are open), dog hair , dog fecal matter, syringes, soiled shredded paper, empty dog food bags, PVC pipe. Pieces of tin, wood boards, and brown dirt that is in need of cleaning. This could cause health problems and vermin/pest problems to the animals. These item(s) cover 75% of a 10' wide by 40' long area.

* The whelping area has soiled shredded paper on the floor, empty dog food bags, and dog food bags full of trash that are in need of cleaning. This too can cause pest/vermin/health problems to the animals. This covers a 5' wide by 8' long area. This effects 118 animals.

* Lastly, their is weeds that range from ?' to 3' tall around the outdoor portion of the runs that are in need of cleaning. This effects 85 animals the weeds are in need of trimming and could cause vermin infestation in the kennel.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

oy vey and ugh. thanks for that, Beverly. not a pretty picture.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

:Cry: OMG Thank you for posting this!!!


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Why are you surprised that this sort of information comes up when you research her background?

Ugh. I'm so tired of reading and hearing about people that still buy dogs from pet shops. Honestly, the information is everywhere. Breeders who take care of their dogs DO NOT sell to pet shops. Period. If you tell yourself you are rescuing one of these pups by giving the pet store or broker (aka the breeder's "brother") hundreds of dollars, or that because the "breeder" or "broker" is nice to YOU that means they must be nice to their dogs you have a serious case of denial. The information on puppy mills is everywhere. I'm just not going to sit here and keep hearing how people just don't know. Especially if they are doing any sort of online research. 

Sorry. This is a public dog forum, not Sunday school and I don't feel like pussy-footing around this "insert favorite expletive here" issue any more. If you're on the forum reading these posts, you know better. Don't succumb to the "I have to have a puppy right this second" and go off and buy a dog from a pet shop, an ad in the paper, or online on something similar because it promotes these scumbag puppy millers. Unless there is no demand, there will ALWAYS be cases against people like Laura. But, I'm sure everyone reading this, knows this already. Did I say "ugh" yet?!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

I seriously hope your post above is not directed to me! :nono: I don't have a pup yet and I have done my homework!


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## nebraskahavmom (Mar 19, 2009)

All - please note that the information that Beverly from Lincoln NE was from 2002 & 2003! That was 6 YEARS ago! Not last week!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Six years ago or six weeks ago, she is listed as *endangering 118 dogs*. I think most people would frown on a person that had 18 dogs in their care, nevermind one hundred and eighteen.


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## HavaBaloo (Mar 24, 2009)

I am curious as to where you got that inspection information? If it is readily available, then people should be able to see where they are buying from before purchasing a pup. Maybe that is in the States only, but I don't think I would have access to any inspection reports on breeders/kennels here in Canada.

Just curious I guess. 

It makes me mad, if you want a dog fast you should goto a rescue or SPCA or something instead of a pet store. I know it was your sister and not you Zury, but I feel bad for all those dogs.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Beverly- thanks for posting. What is sickening to me isn't that there were all those horrible things wrong with the kennels. It is that is how the dogs live. The report doesn't say the dog's shouldn't live with their little feet on chicken wire, just it should be attached to the barn  And that is all that is required and if those are fixed then it is fine for the dogs to live that way.

And if you think this person has stopped-she was auctioning off dogs from January 2009 as well. 
http://www.nopuppymills.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=249

She has a havanese on puppy find right now. She says her children are active with the dogs- all 118 of them in the kennels? :lie:
http://www.puppyfind.com/view_listi...d=4242&country=&state=&page=1&order_by=&back=

Zury- if your sister truly wants more info on where her puppy came from- I am sure it won't be pretty but maybe it will educate her and she can in turn educate others.
http://www.petshoppuppies.org/psppuppyreport.htm


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

ama0722 said:


> ...Zury- if your sister truly wants more info on where her puppy came from- I am sure it won't be pretty but maybe it will educate her and she can in turn educate others.
> http://www.petshoppuppies.org/psppuppyreport.htm


Thanks. I passed all the info to her last night and today. 
I am sure she will read it and educate herself for her next pup!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

nebraskahavmom said:


> All - please note that the information that Beverly from Lincoln NE was from 2002 & 2003! That was 6 YEARS ago! Not last week!


Oh, I am sure if she did it 6 yrs ago, she is still doing it!


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

I can not believe that we still need to educate people against shopping in pet shops for puppies, but we DO! I recently posted on another thread about being at our small dog dog park and hearing person after person talk about getting their dog or puppy from the "Pet Doctor" our local puppy mill puppy provider. It breaks my heart, it makes me sick, it confuses me to no end.

Does someone really need to be inspected to make sure they aren't drowning their puppies in poop and urine? If they know they can get away with it, and they can, why on earth would they change the way they operate? They obviously don't care about the dogs or puppies, or they wouldn't be submitting them to those conditions in the first place.
There are no fines, there are no closures. Did you see the long list of repairs that were to be made after the 2002 inspection? They were given 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks. But what happened? They weren't inspected again for another year, and those items that needed repaired weren't even noted on the next year's inspection.

We have ONE inspector for the entire state, and like I've whined about on other threads, it's the same inspector for all the feedlots, swine operations, chicken, turkey, houses, fisheries, plus all the pet breeders spread out all over the state. 
We don't just have Laure A. Braun here in Nebraska to make me mad....we have Denise Withee who lives next door in Iowa but has a habit of coming over to Nebraska to dump her sick and dying dogs from her puppy mill.

Last year, July 31, Denise Withee dumped 23 dogs in a cornfield by Grand Island NE. The people that spotted them thought they were alive and called the animal control, only to stop and find out all but 3 had died. Pugs, labradoodle, chi's, yorkies, doxies. Dead from dehydration, malnutrition, extreme mange and other diseases. There were 3 dogs clinging to life when the officers arrived but 2 were dead by the time they got to the vet and the last one died at the hospital a short time later. 
You know the most pathetic part? If it weren't for those 3 survivors, and those people that stopped to see what was up, this woman would be getting off without a single charge! She is now facing 3 counts of cruel neglect of animals, with a possible 5 years and $5000 fine for each count, reduced from 5 counts of animal cruelty and animal abandonment.
When they found this woman at a local hotel 2 days later she had 13 puppies with her and they were either euthanized or put in foster homes.

This woman has a great gig, she owns her own over the road truck driving company! That way she can breed the puppies then toss them out as she drives all over the country, brilliant!!!

Only 2 days before she dumped the dogs in Nebraska, they found 24 emaciated and sick dogs running in fields and along a highway in Iowa. Every one had to be euthanized. They then went to her home and "farm" where they found 31 more dogs in deplorable conditions and health. 
They tracked the dogs to her with micro chips, not that she had registered to herself, but that were in the dogs. 

She had an accomplice in Grand Island who apparently even after getting his charges reduced twice, couldn't make it to his court dates and so now has been forced to be a witness for the prosecution. YES! There is a God!
His charges currently are false reporting...
The trial is suppose to finally begin May 20.
Insane.
:flame:

Beverly


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## Mraymo (Oct 30, 2007)

Beverly - That is disgusting. Makes me sick to my stomach. Unbelievable what is allowed to happen without any repercussions. I'm glad they're finally going to prosecute her. Please let me know what happens at the trial.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

I sure will. I'm very anxious as we have had a rash of animal cruelty cases it seems this past year. The strangest, a couple built a bong large enough to put their kitten in.....it was hyperactive was their defense.

I wanted to add that Denise Withee paid Siouxland,IA $7000 for the boarding and disposal of her dogs.
The 50+ dogs she abandoned in Iowa are only good for misdemeanors.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

BeverlyA said:


> I can not believe that we still need to educate people against shopping in pet shops for puppies, but we DO!...


Unfortunately, I am not sure this will stop.

I am ALL for responsible breeders and in fact, the reason why I am in this forum is because I wanted a Havanese, but refused to go to a pet store, so I decided to inform myself and find a great breeder.

However, we all know that there are people that can't afford to pay $ 1500-2500 for a Havanese, but still want their family to have the experience of having a puppy. Not everyone will wait for the right pup to be offered for adoption, so some just go to the pet store that sells them for half price and gives you a health guarantee. Not everyone cares if their pup's parents were health tested or not, unfortunately.

I do think that cracking down on backyard breeders and puppy mills and exposing them in national TV will help people become more aware of these problems.


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## cjsud (Oct 26, 2008)

I just read that a vet from PA was being prosecuted for fraud. He is the vet for at least 5 pet shops. So much for a health check and guarantee.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

I know, It’s sad that there are dishonest people everywhere.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

It's all about money, greed seems to motivate so many people. This is just sick. I hope you'll keep us posted on the trial. Hell won't be hot enough for these people.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

If States totally shut down these mills they have to do something with the animals. Most politicians want nothing what so ever to do with this dilemma. If you eat it they care, if we served dogs on a menu they would get cleaner-better treatment. Changes will have to come from donation organizations, such as rescues & SPCA willing to take all animals seized. Municipalities do not have the funds and resources to handle this ever spreading business. The price for these total seizures is massive with the investigations, man power, judges, warrants, courts, juries much less taking care of the animals. The internet has only added to the problem.

You will never get people to stop buying when they see a puppy. It is the feel good sensation. Look how long drugs & alcohol abuse have been in the public eye, it starts out just making you feel better. People see a puppy in a pet store, it makes them feel good and they buy it. The Pet Company in our local mall sells dogs. I saw a lady buying a little Yorkie not long ago and I made an attempt to engage the buyer & sales person about where these puppies come from and the answer was “we have local breeders that bring us their puppies to sell for them”, I saw the blue tag, it said Arkansas, I tried to inquired about that location but the buyer’s credit card was approved, she was kissing on the puppy, talking about how happy she was and it was worth it to max out her credit for the puppy. I would have never changed this buyers mind.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Carefulove said:


> Unfortunately, I am not sure this will stop.
> 
> I am ALL for responsible breeders and in fact, the reason why I am in this forum is because I wanted a Havanese, but refused to go to a pet store, so I decided to inform myself and find a great breeder.
> 
> ...


Emphasis mine.

Zury, I'm not sure where you've seen Havanese priced low at pet stores... here in New York, at least, I've seen them priced at $2,500-$3,000 EASY. It's sickening to me that someone will have that much money to spend on a dog but can't find the time nor the resources to do some research and figure out that breeders charge the same amount or less (both my pups cost less than that) and that you'd be getting a puppy from a reputable breeder, WITH a health guarantee and tons and tons of support 24/7. Seriously, it makes me sick to my stomach. At Hitchcock's puppy class there was a tiny little Hav girl who came for one class and never came back... she came from a pet store (the owner said she just couldn't wait for a breeder to have a puppy... she just needed a dog right away or something ). But neither her nor the puppy ever came back which kind of makes me think that maybe she was returned, but I guess I'm just being speculative now. I do agree that it's very disturbing how many people STILL buy from pet stores and then act all surprised when you tell them where these puppies came from - as if they've never heard it before. I'm sorry but I really don't buy that for a second.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Lina said:


> Emphasis mine.
> 
> Zury, I'm not sure where you've seen Havanese priced low at pet stores... here in New York, at least, *I've seen them priced at $2,500-$3,000 **Bold is Mine*...........end quote
> 
> Pet shops are no longer the biggest worry in my opinion, the internet sells far more than will ever be seen in a store and most of these dogs are cheaper. Little Galen that is living with us was offered for $500 on the website, she has a well bred AKC Ch. Daddy. The stud owner apparently would breed to any female if the owner paid the price. They bred him to a puppy mill bitch. They did not want their name mentioned but had no problem giving a copy of his registration to the mill owner & letting them use it one the website. Galen's breeding will never matter as she is now spayed, but it was all for the money.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Amanda, where did you get those links to: petshoppuppies report ? What exactly is it? Also, this link: http://www.nopuppymills.com/forum/v...&start=0&sid=97810d623006b93e931e3cd031f2784b What is it? I'm confused. lol I want to learn how we can get this information. Thanks! 

Beverly and Amy, I hear ya girls! I feel your frustration and anger. It's despicable what people will do for money.

Unfortunately, pet shops will always be popular. I think what we can focus on, is pushing for them to sell shelter dogs, for the pet store to be a source of education about owning a puppy, young or old. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the city shelters and rescues had them as a way to get the word out, to share the expenses and to give these dogs new homes? One can dream..... but I know SOME pet shops out there are doing this, so it's not impossible!

I just stopped at two pet shop parking lots this a.m. and stuck fliers that i made in people's windshields. My fliers focus on the parents of that cute puppy in the store, how they are raised and health concerns. Quebec is the "capital of puppy mills" in North America. I included several links of sites on the web for them to learn more, and threw in a few pictures of dams and mill dogs so they have an idea. I know most of the fliers will end up in the trash, but maybe one person now and then will stop and think before they buy impulsively.

Lina, there are "purebred" puppies in shops here that are from $499 to $1599 so if someone who hasn't a clue can save a couple of hundred $$ on a Havanese from a shop, they will go for it.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

SMARTY said:


> The internet has only added to the problem.
> 
> You will never get people to stop buying when they see a puppy. It is the feel good sensation. Look how long drugs & alcohol abuse have been in the public eye, it starts out just making you feel better. People see a puppy in a pet store, it makes them feel good and they buy it. The Pet Company in our local mall sells dogs. I saw a lady buying a little Yorkie not long ago and I made an attempt to engage the buyer & sales person about where these puppies come from and the answer was "we have local breeders that bring us their puppies to sell for them", I saw the blue tag, it said Arkansas, I tried to inquired about that location but the buyer's credit card was approved, she was kissing on the puppy, talking about how happy she was and it was worth it to max out her credit for the puppy. I would have never changed this buyers mind.


Very, very true, Sandi. Sad, but true.......


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

There was an article in the newspaper yesterday "Rescued Dogs at North Shore Animal League". The story went on to say that they were rescued from puppy mills and will be distributed to shelters and be evaluated for adoption. These were all dogs that had lived out their breeding time and were going to be euthanized. I am glad they rescued the dogs, but why are the mills still in business? They should be shut down!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Lina said:


> ...Zury, I'm not sure where you've seen Havanese priced low at pet stores... here in New York, at least, I've seen them priced at $2,500-$3,000 EASY...


Lina, I wouldn't have said it if I didn't see it myself. My sister's Havanese was less than $ 800 with cage, food, supplies and taxes and she got him from the Mall's pet shop in one of the nearby towns here in CT.

Also, go online and search, you will see havanese puppies anywhere from $ 500-3000.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I know that online there are cheap Hav puppies being sold, but in pet stores (at least around here as I've said) I've never seen them sold cheap. I'm surprised they aren't trying to charge as much as they can in other pet stores as well. The whole thing is sad in either case.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Marj- It is a forum.
http://www.nopuppymills.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

Some of the people will go to the auctions and purchase dogs- think Halo, etc. The one I posted was a search of her name on the forum. Here are other auctions posted in there as well.
http://www.nopuppymills.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=602d99b99320768c992c0fab61bc2db3

While, I understand not being able to afford a Havanese. I personally dont want their price lowered. I want the breed to continue down the road with all the health testing, the showing and breeding the best possible examples of the breed. I see way more expensive dogs at pet stores and unfortunately people by them especially if they are designer or tinies. Now around here there is one petland about an hour away and most of the dogs there are 800-1800. But also living around here you can get a health tested Hav puppy from a few of the local breeders 1000-1500. What I can't understand is by those who purchase them from pet stores, put a lot more Havanese in mill situations. I kind of think if you purchase one from the pet store- you are keeping at least two in a mill. I honestly think the majority of people who buy from a pet store, it is an impulse. They don't know even much about the breed let alone wait to go see and meet a breeder. They aren't thinking of the dog long term either- health, temperament, etc. I also know where a lot of those impulse puppies end up


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

The Pet Company, in our local mall, prices are very high. They all start around $3,000 and are lowered as the dog ages. Very few are AKC registered. Some people equate quality to price.


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

It's sickening, and I'm afraid I don't see it ever truly changing, since there will always be people who don't know, don't want to know, or only care about instant gratification, and the lower human nature of greed will always be there to serve them.

A sideline to that is the disposability of pets in many people's minds, legally they are property, and while they're protected to an extent from cruelty, they have so few advocates. SO many people get dogs who are not remotely prepared for that responsibility, and I'm always surprised when I see even otherwise intelligent, caring people not making much of an effort for their pets. I really had to think hard, myself, about whether I was ready for this again because it's an enormous commitment and requires a certain amount of sacrifice and sensitivity in caring for another sentient being. I guess have a level of respect for animals that I don't think is very common. I'm still conflicted about eating meat, frankly, and try to avoid factory farmed sources. It's not right what humans have done to animals in the big picture, and I gotta think there will be some major karmic payback.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I don't understand the cold hearts of these people. I wouldn't call myself an animal person, I love my dogs, but not all dogs. I don't normally like cats and would never own one but I do like my friend's cats. With all that said I couldn't possibly be unkind to ANY animal! When either of our dogs have been sick we worry like crazy! My husband slept on the floor with Scooter when he was sick following his neuter. When we brought these guys into our home they became part of our family. 

Unfortunately many people don't properly care for their animals and they're teaching this behavior to their children as well.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

I agree that unfortunately, people are too addicted to instant gratification and the pet shops/chains will continue to sell puppies. There are at least 5 or 6 within a 30 mile radius from me (including the type that places the puppies in the cribs-nauseating!). It's sad that someone can order a car or jewelry and wait months for it with no problem, but when it's a dog they have to have it now now now!! I went on a fossil dig field trip today with my daughter out in the middle of Nowhere, FL, and we passed a dumpy building with a sign that read "Small Animal Auction". It made me sad thinking it might have been the type that those poor dogs end up.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Some of the largest most abusive mills are found in the strictest religious sects. 
Bible verse Genesis 1:26,
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

Sandi, I know, I completely don't agree with that philosophy. My dad taught us when we were young that god put animals here for "man's use." That never sat right with me, even when I was too young to know better at an intellectual level.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

SMARTY said:


> Some of the largest most abusive mills are found in the strictest religious sects.
> Bible verse Genesis 1:26,
> Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."


IMO, with that comes responsibility. That doesn't mean we can treat them cruelly. We're ALL God's creation and all life should be treated with dignity and respect.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

We may not agree with this but many cultures do.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

And there is still the huge topic of breeder legislation that I feel like I've tip-toed around in 20 threads now. 

The dilemma of fighting against breeder legislation blindly, even though it's the only way to legally fight puppy mills.

I was brought up in a religious home and was taught that Bible verse, but I was certainly taught every living thing was a gift and should be treated with respect and care.
There's always groups willing to twist things in order to make money or reach their own greedy goals.

Beverly


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Bev- while I don't agree with some of the crazy breeder legislation, I personally wish they would put to use the laws that are already on the books. I think that is the biggest problem, nothing is enforced. Like your example of one person to investigate and when there is a write up, he goes out a year later and finds more wrong. I know quite a few cases where the puppy mill operator gets busted, the public gets involved, and the punishment was just giving the dogs to the humane society. They just look at it as if you get busted, an operational cost. Michael Vicks is suppose to go on home arrest next month already too.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Michael Vick is a pig, he belongs in jail. My kids had his jerseys and loved watching him play. When all of this happened they brought me their jerseys and t-shirts and said they didn't want them anymore, we threw it all away. They were huge Falcons fans and went to most home games. I wish everyone would boycott the team that hires him, as well as the league!


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

I said I would post an update of the case of Denise Withee when she was finally sentenced. She is the woman from Iowa that owns her own over the road trucking company and also raised puppies who was caught dumping 23 dead and dying dogs in a cornfield here in Nebraska. A couple weeks previous to that, she dumped sick and dying dogs in a field in Iowa and abandoned sick and starving dogs at her farm. 
She was held financially responsible for euthanizing 55 dogs found at her farm for a cost of $7000.

In Nebraska, where she could have been sentenced to 5 years and $5000 on each of 3 felony counts of felony cruel abuse or neglect of an animal, the judge gave her 4 years of probation and forbid her to own an animal for 5 years. If her probation is revoked, she could get 120 days in jail.

There were only 3 counts on the 23 dogs because there were 3 dogs still alive when they were first found. Two of these died before they could get them to the vet and the third died shortly after. 
Thirteen other puppies found with her had to be euthanized.

So for being directly responsible for the deaths of at least 91 dogs in the space of a couple weeks, Denise Withee will be serving no time in jail and will be paying no fine at all. It's impossible to tell how many dogs she dumped that simply starved to death or were dead and were never found and were drug away by other animals.

Earlier this week an idiot was sentenced here in Lincoln to 120 days in jail and has to pay 1200$ fine directly to our local humane society after he was found guilty of putting his "hyper" kitten in his home made bong.

Apparently Denise was so pleased with the judges sentence that she has decided to make Nebraska her new home. She's moved from Iowa to Hastings, NE. Who could blame her?:flame:

Beverly


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

That's just so wrong!!!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

This seems like a case of an extremely bad prosecuting attorney who did not ask for the maximum sentence or a judge with a fatter pocket, no love of animals or senile. Both of these elected officials need to be replaced in the next election.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

How sick! :faint:


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

That's terrible. She deserved so much more. Michael Vick even received a harsher (yet not harsh enough) punishment. 
Gina


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## Sarah (Sep 1, 2008)

Sorry I am so late on this thread. But, my belief is, if you cant afford it, dont buy it. If you cant afford a new TV that costs $700-1200 are you going to steal it? Why go from a breeder, to a puppymiller? Your promoting their horrible facility. And heck, there are bad breeders out there too. I have met several. However, they dont have hundreds of animals that they are selling to pet shops, etc. 

You would think that everyone would have heard about the Oprah show regarding puppymillers. But I guess not. 

The other reason why people are cheap/lazy and decide to get a dog from the pet store is because they dont want to educate themselves, they use the cost as an excuse (while they drive decent cars, take trips, eat good food, etc. so you know its not the monty). 

I cant tell you how many people had emailed me asking me for a puppy but didnt want to answer all the puppy questions that breeders are asking. I responded to them and told them I wasnt a breeder, but even if I were, I wouldnt be that stupid and sell them a dog. 

I donno. I HATE stupid people... and I HATE it when people dont research. This coming from an investigator. But its really not that hard now a days. Its called GOOGLE! 

But I will say my heart goes out to those lil furbabies that are being used and abused. I just wish my home was big enough to care for all of them. The people who run those mills should be shot/put in prison. But our justice system doesnt care enough about animals. Only humans. And that to me is sad. 

Alright, Ill shut up. Im sure I pissed off someone through this quick reply. So Ill open mouth and insert foot


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Well, Sarah, I might be late in checking out this thread again, but you sure didn't piss ME off ! lol I agree. 

In fact, just this morning, the Montreal Gazette published a letter I wrote on the subject of pet shop puppies. This is it: http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/Take+care+when+puppy/2126246/story.html

I think I could right a book with how I feel on the subject. lol


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