# Housebreaking a 3.5 month old puppy



## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi everyone. First let me say thanks to everybody that contributes to this forum. The wealth of knowledge I found here has been really informative and helpful. In search of some more knowledge I humbly come to you today, with clear eyes and a full heart, with a question regarding my Prairiwind puppy, Chester.

Chester will be about 3.5 months when he arrives to us in four days. Since he was sort of an impulse buy, we elected to have him delivered at 3.5 months instead of the normal 8 weeks because we knew we had time off around this time of year to be with him in his new home. As an added benefit, we were hoping that he'd have better bladder control as an older puppy since my wife and I read somewhere that it's about +1 hour for every month he is in age, thus saving us some sleepless nights (sorta). And this is my question...

Since he hasn't been housebroken before by the breeder, does this rule of thumb apply in Chester's case? Or does it apply to puppies who've been training since 8 weeks? Should I still expect to wake up every hour on the hour at night to let him out of his crate to pee?

Thanks in advance!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

It won't be that awful.  Jack only got us up in the middle of the first night. I think that was only because he was scared. You will probably only have to do a late night walk (11ish) and a 6am walk. We got Jack when he was 10 weeks.


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## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

Same here. We got Sophie at ten weeks, and she only got up the first night.Daytime is another story. Every hour was not enough for her.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

It varies with the individual, but I can say after training a couple of hundred puppies to sleep in a crate, that the vast majority can sleep through the night at 8 weeks. One might get restless the first night or two and have to get up once, but that's about it.

Be sure to follow your breeder's advice to the tee, and at the first instance of any issue or question, call them. We wouldn't want it any other way. Once is an accident, twice becomes a habit.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

You should not have to get up during the night at that age, but he may be very frightened at first. He's had a long time to be with the other dogs and the group he's known since his birth so give him and yourselves a little time to adjust.

I would recommend you keep him close to you at night, where he can see you so he doesn't get upset at first being in a strange place and suddenly finding himself alone. As for the actual potty training, I'll leave that to the experts to explain to you, but try to be consistent. You'll get to know his routine and his signals.

I want pictures. Your Chester and mine may be related. Who were his sire and dam? And, before I forget, congratulations on your new addition. I hope you're as happy with him as I've been with my three.


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## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks for the replies!

Commit a forum faux pas and not post pics of a new puppy? I wouldn't dare do such a thing to you all. It's the least I can do.

Chester's sire is Caffe Con Leche and the dam is A Diamon Is Forever.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

COngratulations on your new baby!!!! Such an exciting time for you!!
We got Tillie at 14 weeks... that's 3 1/2 months, right? LOL
She did great, only had to go out to go potty once, the first night, never had to go out at night since. She is now 6 months old and fully potty trained for 2 months now!
The best advice I got was to treat them like "new puppies" and either keep them in the x-pen or keep an EAGLE eye on them, as SOON as he starts sniffing around get him to the potty spot weather it be inside or outside. Try your hardest not to let him out of your sight and learn his "potty signs"!
I also agree with placing his bed and/or crate where he can see you at night, it REALLY helps them feel safe and settled much faster...
Can't wait for pics!!!


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Welcome to the forum! Sounds like you're getting good advice so I won't add anything there. Looking forward to pix!


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## Wildflower (Dec 6, 2009)

toto3d said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> 
> Commit a forum faux pas and not post pics of a new puppy? I wouldn't dare do such a thing to you all. It's the least I can do.
> 
> Chester's sire is Caffe Con Leche and the dam is A Diamon Is Forever.


Where's the photos???  According to your post, you should have him now! 

I have been searching the forum about Prairiwind tonight because I am now hoping to go to them when we decide we're ready for a 2nd puppy. And again when my daughter is ready for a puppy! She is in a dorm at So Dakota State right now so that is still a long time away though. 

A couple of weeks ago, I met the parents of one of the students on her floor -- and their Havanese from Prairiwind. I was so impressed with the dog and his personality!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

All three of mine have great temperaments and personality. I wouldn't trade any one of them.


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## Wildflower (Dec 6, 2009)

pjewel said:


> All three of mine have great temperaments and personality. I wouldn't trade any one of them.


I always love the photos and stories of your dogs!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Congrats on your new puppy! My best bit of advice is to put his crate at eye level during the night. I put my pups on a table next to the bed where they could see me and I could just put a hand in the crate and tell them quiet if they started fussing. When my first came home at 8 weeks, he woke me many times during the night. After a few nights, I spoke to my breeder and she said to put him at eye level next to me at night. The first night I did that, he slept through the night and did every night after that.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

pjewel said:


> All three of mine have great temperaments and personality. I wouldn't trade any one of them.


Except for the days you've been ready to auction off the red headed young lady!


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## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

Herrrrrrrrrrrrrre's Chester!!

So my concerns over Chester not sleeping through the night were unwarranted. He slept through his first night home with nary a peep. Oddly enough, I was the one tossing and turning the whole night!

With the hustle and bustle of visiting family for the holidays, it seems like Chester is really opening up. He ripped up his first pee pad from the pee pad tray tonight, causing a raucous from his expen while my wife and I ate dinner, then proceeded to pass out on our couch minutes afterwards. 

One thing we hadn't planned for was teething...and we're finding out about that now. Here's one picture, there will be more once things settle.

Happy Holidays!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

krandall said:


> Except for the days you've been ready to auction off the red headed young lady!


ound: Yep, I was thinking the same thing! ound: Just messing with you, Geri! 

Welcome, toto3d and Chester! Congratulations! Have fun with your new boy! Is he red, like Geri's Ruby? He is cute...ooops, handsome, I mean!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

awwwww, Congratulations!!!!!! he is adorable! have FUN!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

krandall said:


> Except for the days you've been ready to auction off the red headed young lady!


Oh *that* little thing. Well, she's almost perfect . . . except for one little flaw. She destroys everything. :biggrin1:


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

toto3d said:


> Herrrrrrrrrrrrrre's Chester!!
> 
> So my concerns over Chester not sleeping through the night were unwarranted. He slept through his first night home with nary a peep. Oddly enough, I was the one tossing and turning the whole night!
> 
> ...


Oh he is massively cute, and another redhead it would appear. Can't wait to read all about him.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Oh he is so cute! Welcome to the forum!!! I trained Lizzie to ring potty bells and it has been fabulous.


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## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

Here are a couple more pictures of Chester! As I mentioned previously, his sleeping through the night hasn't been a problem (knock on wood!). And so far his potty training has been going fairly well too. I think we underestimated how long he could hold it in since he's an older pup, but he can go 3 to 4 hours easily. Right now he's setup in his small play pen which has a pee pad in a corner, crate int he other. The funny thing is that when we're around the play pen, he has accidents. But when we leave the apt for 20 - 30 minutes, sure enough, we come home to find that he's peed on the pad. Maybe he's shy around us? And...his #2 is more consistent than peeing. Go figure. My main thing is that I have to remember it's only day 4 of his training and not to get frustrated easily.

Anyway, there's a quick update. Enjoy the pics even though they don't do him justice at all


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

He is just too cute! I remember that stage all too well. Just give it time. Sounds like you're off to a great start.


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## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks for the encouraging words, Geri! Much appreciated.

You can't tell by those pics, but Chester's got some funny looking ears. I always say he has Lamb Lung ears because that's what they look like!

And I really love the havanese coat. Does it stay that silky and soft forever?


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Two of mine have very silky coats, while Bailey's is much more cottony and thick. When I first got Bailey I was surprised by the shape of his head. It didn't show up in the photos I'd first fallen in love with, but he looked unusual. As he grew up, he turned into an absolute beauty, just like the other two.

I'd love to see the photos of your baby's Lamb Lung ears.


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## Wildflower (Dec 6, 2009)

He is insanely CUTE!!!


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## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

*Having trouble with potty training*

I am having some trouble with my Havanese in potty training. We got our dog Thanksgiving weekend. Since then, we have yet to have an accident free day. Some days are better than others. I would say that he is mostly potty trained, but one accident a day is a lot. His favorite spot for number 1 is around the Christmas tree. In fact, I would say that is where he mostly goes number one. Certainly not on the tile, but the carpet. What makes me mad is that he will pee over there a small spot 10 minutes after I have taken him out, and he returns to that darn spot. I consider this marking, but the breeder told me he was just having accidents and to be consistent with time outs in his crate for one hour after his accident (moving the crate to the accident location.) I have been consistent EVERY time with this, and it still happens. The only thing I have seen differently is that his #2 has now been on objects rather than the carpet, such as on a dvd or a toy. I just bought bells this week to introduce, and the weather with all the snow has certainly not helped, but I would love to get some advice before he ruins my carpet. Should I get a playpen until he earns living room privileges?


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## jacqui (Aug 7, 2007)

He is absolutely darling! Enjoy and be patient. He is going to want to please such a loving owner.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

@jenisny-I kept Lizzie gated in the kitchen. She was only allowed in the family room totally supervised. I also took her out every hour for a week, then every 2 for a few weeks. This was rain or shine. I have bells and EVERY time we went out to potty I took her paws and hit the bells and said "ring the potty bells". I had a chart and recorded what she did when I took her out and looked for a pattern. I locked her in the kitchen when she could not be watched such as shower time or when everyone was busy. She is now 9 months old and we probably have a pee accident about once a week and those are our fault. We may have missed the bell or got busy. Sometimes she does not ring the bell but puts her front paws on my leg and at first I thought "oh how cute" and then she would pee and I figured out that was a signal to go out. I took the gates down at Thanksgiving and we got her in June- so we are just beginning to trust her unsupervised for about 10 to 15 minutes at a time. I have to say that the first few months we went through many many bottles of cleaner.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

jenisny said:


> I am having some trouble with my Havanese in potty training. We got our dog Thanksgiving weekend. Since then, we have yet to have an accident free day. Some days are better than others. I would say that he is mostly potty trained, but one accident a day is a lot. His favorite spot for number 1 is around the Christmas tree. In fact, I would say that is where he mostly goes number one. Certainly not on the tile, but the carpet. What makes me mad is that he will pee over there a small spot 10 minutes after I have taken him out, and he returns to that darn spot. I consider this marking, but the breeder told me he was just having accidents and to be consistent with time outs in his crate for one hour after his accident (moving the crate to the accident location.) I have been consistent EVERY time with this, and it still happens. The only thing I have seen differently is that his #2 has now been on objects rather than the carpet, such as on a dvd or a toy. I just bought bells this week to introduce, and the weather with all the snow has certainly not helped, but I would love to get some advice before he ruins my carpet. Should I get a playpen until he earns living room privileges?


I would absolutely keep him in an ex pen until he shows he can be trusted. I can hear your frustration level now and it's been a really short time. You'll be less stressed if you set up his ex pen in the way that Tom King suggests (you can find threads about it or I'm sure he'll chime in).


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jenisny said:


> I am having some trouble with my Havanese in potty training. We got our dog Thanksgiving weekend. Since then, we have yet to have an accident free day. Some days are better than others. I would say that he is mostly potty trained, but one accident a day is a lot. His favorite spot for number 1 is around the Christmas tree. In fact, I would say that is where he mostly goes number one. Certainly not on the tile, but the carpet. What makes me mad is that he will pee over there a small spot 10 minutes after I have taken him out, and he returns to that darn spot. I consider this marking, but the breeder told me he was just having accidents and to be consistent with time outs in his crate for one hour after his accident (moving the crate to the accident location.) I have been consistent EVERY time with this, and it still happens. The only thing I have seen differently is that his #2 has now been on objects rather than the carpet, such as on a dvd or a toy. I just bought bells this week to introduce, and the weather with all the snow has certainly not helped, but I would love to get some advice before he ruins my carpet. Should I get a playpen until he earns living room privileges?


There is absolutely NO WAY that any dog, let alone a young puppy will understand a "time out" for peeing in the wrong spot. The only way to teach him not to pee where you don't want him to is to establish GOOD habits somewhere else.

You need to keep him away from places that you know he is going to pee inappropriately. This is actually easier if they are consistently using the wrong spot than if it is random. Put up a gate or ex-pen to keep him out of that area. Limiting freedom until good potty habits are established is the fastest way to a reliably house trained dog. One accident a day is WAY too many. Every time he has an accident, it seriously delays the time it will take for him to truly understand the " right" place(s) to potty.

The correct way to use a crate or ex-pen during potty training is to confine your puppy when he can't be CLOSELY supervised. Close supervision means never taking you eyes off him. This may seem like a lot of work, but it is the best and test way to a reliably trained puppy.


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## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

Thank you for the advice. I have questioned the time out method, but my breeder insisted they knew the difference. She also suggested the "jail" method for growling at my son. I was concerned over this because I want the dog to have a warning before he would bite. 

I did block off the Christmas tree (which will be gone in a few days), and he has peed in front of it. I told my husband I think we need to get an ex-pen. I have crated him at times when we couldn't watch him well, and I did have some stressful days before Christmas where I couldn't give him the attention he needed, but I would feel better about an ex-pen versus a crate. I have been somewhat frustrated only since I have not seen much difference or one accident free day. Then we'll have a better day (but still not accident free.) I knew this breed may be more difficult to potty train, but I thought since we had him with the breeder an extra month, he would be a little bit better (he is now 4-1/2 month old.) Rest assured I will work with him and am trying to be patient. He really is a darling little thing, and we love him dearly. I can't wait until spring when we can go outside more.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jenisny said:


> Thank you for the advice. I have questioned the time out method, but my breeder insisted they knew the difference. She also suggested the "jail" method for growling at my son. I was concerned over this because I want the dog to have a warning before he would bite.
> 
> I did block off the Christmas tree (which will be gone in a few days), and he has peed in front of it. I told my husband I think we need to get an ex-pen. I have crated him at times when we couldn't watch him well, and I did have some stressful days before Christmas where I couldn't give him the attention he needed, but I would feel better about an ex-pen versus a crate. I have been somewhat frustrated only since I have not seen much difference or one accident free day. Then we'll have a better day (but still not accident free.) I knew this breed may be more difficult to potty train, but I thought since we had him with the breeder an extra month, he would be a little bit better (he is now 4-1/2 month old.) Rest assured I will work with him and am trying to be patient. He really is a darling little thing, and we love him dearly. I can't wait until spring when we can go outside more.


Well, considering the advice the breeder is giving you on potty training, I wouldn't count on her having done much constructive on the potty training.<g>

If they are started right, and then you are very careful to maintain their potty training, I don't think this IS a difficult breed to potty train. But a puppy who, on a good day, is only having one accident a day, basically is still clueless about what is expected of him. You can get there with him, but I'm afraid you may have to take it back to phase one, as if he were a tiny puppy to get him on the right track. You have to aim for NO accidents EVER. You'll still miss now and then just because you are human and he's a puppy. But remember that EVERY accident is a big set-back in his training.

The stress of Christmas isn't only hard on people, but it's hard on dogs' training, especially puppies. Kodi is a year and a half, and in his classes during the week before Christmas, he was MANIC!!! (if I didn't know better, I would have thought he was on a sugar high!<g>) He didn't have any potty accidents, but he's close to being an adult dog. I'm not surprised that your puppy was less reliable.

Your guy is still a pretty little baby. Think of him as a just-walking human baby. Would you let one of those loose on your rugs without a diaper?!?ound:

Another thing that we haven't talked about is, do you have an indoor option for your puppy to potty? (litter box, pee pads, etc.) Tom King has potty trained, literally, hundreds of puppies, and he says that the ones that take the longest to be fully reliable are those that don't have an indoor option for pottying. Most eventually choose to go outside all or at least most of the time, but it's REALLY nice to have an indoor potty option in the middle of a storm or when you're travelling, even when they are adults.

I think someone else already mentioned this, but look up some of the (many) threads Tom has written about litter box training. It doesn't have to be a litter box, but the method would be the same. If you insist on ONLY having him potty outside, you have to be ready to take him out hourly, and then have him either in an ex-pen or tethered to you most of the day to prevent accidents while he's learning... And you have to be prepared for it to take a LOT longer (and more effort on your part) than the litter box way.

Really consider taking him right back to the beginning and starting over with his training. I think, in the long run, you'll have a reliably house trained dog a LOT faster. As far as I'm concerned, one accident a month would be too much to call a dog "almost house trained". One accident a day means that he's totally clueless, but you are being good about getting him outside often enough that it USUALLY happens out there. YOU are trained, not him.


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## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

I have to agree with what you say. It never did feel quite right, but I didn't know what other way to do it. I have to do what feels right, and I will definitely be looking up Tom King's posts. The breeder did use newspaper, and I laid some down the first week, and he paid no attention to it other than to occasionally shred it. We will get some kind of indoor potty area as well. This would help with the poor weather days too. I guess where I would be confused is when I catch the dog in the act, do I move him to the potty area or outside? I will see if some of the other posts comments on this. Thank you all for your advice. You are all a wealth of information as I am a novice to this breed. This is my first time training a puppy. My other dog was a rescue that I got at a year old.


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## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

One last question: would you do any type of punishment when he did have an accident? Would you start from the beginning? What would you do?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

if you catch him IN the act of pottying indoors, clap your hands to get his attention and stop the stream, then pick him up FAST and take him to his potty area. I don't think "punishment" works with these dogs very well. Like other posters said, they will start to HIDE when they potty if you punish them... IF you don't catch him in the act, clean it up without any fuss. When he DOES go potty where you want him to, throw a HUGE party, TONS of praise and treats, so he see how HAPPY this makes you. And when he goes in the house, he doesn't get this kind of a reaction from you... good luck!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jenisny said:


> I have to agree with what you say. It never did feel quite right, but I didn't know what other way to do it. I have to do what feels right, and I will definitely be looking up Tom King's posts. The breeder did use newspaper, and I laid some down the first week, and he paid no attention to it other than to occasionally shred it. We will get some kind of indoor potty area as well. This would help with the poor weather days too. I guess where I would be confused is when I catch the dog in the act, do I move him to the potty area or outside? I will see if some of the other posts comments on this. Thank you all for your advice. You are all a wealth of information as I am a novice to this breed. This is my first time training a puppy. My other dog was a rescue that I got at a year old.


I would move him to which ever is closest if you catch him in the act. But it is MUCH better if you can prevent him from making the mistake ahead of time.... Which means limiting the area he has access to, and watching him like a hawk. (as in NEVER out of your sight, and in the beginning, never out of your reach unless he's in a crate or ex-pen)

I don't think newspaper makes a great poppy material... If I were a dog, I wouldn't want to use it either. It's not absorbent, and dogs don't like to get their feet in pee. My preference is a litter box, but other people use pee pads without a problem. The problem with pee pads for me is that Kodi shreds ANYTHING made of paper. There are also these fake grass things called Ugo-Dog (and there are a couple of other brands too) that some people like a lot, but you have to have somewhere where you can clean the thing fairly regularly. I'm not willing to put it in the bath tub or kitchen sink, and we don't have any other options.

You will definitely have to do some intense training to get him to use a litter box (or other) at this point, but I think you'll really be glad you did. Tom explains how to do it in some of his posts.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jenisny said:


> One last question: would you do any type of punishment when he did have an accident? Would you start from the beginning? What would you do?


ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! All that you accomplish by punishing a dog who has an accident is tech them to hide from you when they do it. They only do it because they don't yet fully understand the RIGHT place to go. Don't say ANYTHING to them if they have an accident. Just clean it up and give yourself a swat with a newspaper for not watching him closely enough.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> if you catch him IN the act of pottying indoors, clap your hands to get his attention and stop the stream, then pick him up FAST and take him to his potty area. I don't think "punishment" works with these dogs very well. Like other posters said, they will start to HIDE when they potty if you punish them... IF you don't catch him in the act, clean it up without any fuss. When he DOES go potty where you want him to, throw a HUGE party, TONS of praise and treats, so he see how HAPPY this makes you. And when he goes in the house, he doesn't get this kind of a reaction from you... good luck!


Just as a warning, I agree that if you catch them in the act, you need to move them to the correct spot. HOWEVER, Kodi never ONCE stopped going when we clapped or even when we picked him up... He just continued all the way to the litter box.  So be prepared to clean up the "river" afterwards. (one more GOOD reason to keep them confined and on a floor that's easy to clean until they are pretty far along in the training process!!!)


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## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

Thank you all for the good advice. Maybe that is why he keeps going around the Christmas tree...to hide behind it. Today, we crated him more, letting him out for play periods after he went outside. We haven't had an accident yet today, knock on wood. The first day EVER! I ordered an ex pen that should be here on Monday. Can't wait! This will make a happier mommy with cleaner carpets, and thus a happier dog. He really is a pleaser, so I am optimistic of getting him on the right track in the next few months.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jenisny said:


> Thank you all for the good advice. Maybe that is why he keeps going around the Christmas tree...to hide behind it. Today, we crated him more, letting him out for play periods after he went outside. We haven't had an accident yet today, knock on wood. The first day EVER! I ordered an ex pen that should be here on Monday. Can't wait! This will make a happier mommy with cleaner carpets, and thus a happier dog. He really is a pleaser, so I am optimistic of getting him on the right track in the next few months.


Yay!!! Sounds like you are on the right track now!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

My friend told me that it is better to not clean up the mess in front of the puppy. Does anyone know why?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> My friend told me that it is better to not clean up the mess in front of the puppy. Does anyone know why?


I have no idea why you wouldn't want to clean up the mess in front of the puppy. My goal was always to get it up as fast as possible and then soak the area with an enzyme cleaner so there was no smell left behind. I never really cared if he was watching or not, as long as he wasn't getting into it as I was cleaning!!!:biggrin1:


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## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

Well, we are making progress. We had one incident of urine on the carpet last night, which was the first since last Friday. One a week is much better than one a day. Two #2 accidents this week, but that's all. I put out a pee pad last night, and he tried to tear it up, but then he used it. He hasn't bothered it today. The only issue is that he still barks while in his ex pen not caring for it too much. I am trying to give him a special chew treat reserved for his ex pen, but he keeps dragging it into the living room during play time. He just wants to be with us when he's in there, and barks. But he has even rang the potty bells a couple of times the last 2 days. I think he realizes if he goes outside, he can come out of the ex pen for play time. We are going to get there! Thank you all for your help.


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