# Agility training - how old?



## Dory

How old should a Havanese be before you start training them in agility? I've read 18 months, but is that just for competing or do I have to wait that long just to do it for fun? Quincy loves challenges and I think he would be great at agility, so I wanted to try him with it as early as I could, but I don't want to harm him either.
Thanks in advance for any advice. eace:


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## lise

I haven't asked my trainer yet but my next door neighbour said for her dog at a different training facility than mine, they said a year


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## morriscsps

Karen is the Agility Guru but I believe that one year is the norm for starting the more serious training. You can do a Puppy Agility class where they introduce the puppies to the different skills but only low, low jumps and minimal weave poles training. Nothing that will hurt their growing little bodies.


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## krandall

Dory said:


> How old should a Havanese be before you start training them in agility? I've read 18 months, but is that just for competing or do I have to wait that long just to do it for fun? Quincy loves challenges and I think he would be great at agility, so I wanted to try him with it as early as I could, but I don't want to harm him either.
> Thanks in advance for any advice. eace:


Most of the competitive venues won't let a dog COMPETE before 18 months, but only with large breed dogs is it advisable to wait that long to begin training. With most breeds, it's safe to start training around one year.

In the mean time, there is LOTS you can do that is just "every day training" that will make things move much faster once you begin to formally train agility.

ALL of the basic obedience work is also good foundation work for agility. The dog should have a solid, sit, down and stay, fast and slow, a reliable recall in an enclosed area and should be willing to work off lead on either side of you.

Practice running in the yard keeping your pup on your right AND on your left.

Practice having your pup walk on many different surfaces.

Purchase or make a wobble board to practice on so they get used to things moving under their feet.

Lay a ladder on the ground and have the pup practice walking through it, over the rungs. This is great for teaching body awareness and foot placement.

Teach them to turn either right and left or "here" and "away", whichever is easier for you.

Teach them to LOVE tug games, and to release on command.

There is MUCH more you could work on before ever exposing your pup to a piece of agility equipment, but my guess is that this list would keep you pretty darned busy for the first year!!! At the same time, none of the exercises put any strain on developing joints!


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## segab

I started Beau at 10 months or so. The beginner's class was appropriate for his age. He's extremely focused and we've been encouraged to compete. One thing I read about Havanese and agility was to wait to at least one year old to start the weave poles. He's now 14 months and we still have not done concentrated training on the weaves. He loves it and everyone loves watching him.


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## Dory

Thank you so much for the advice! Karen, I think your list will keep us busy until he hits a year old LOL. Of course, we will have to do some in the garage during the winter, but it's not that cold out there now that hubby has insulated it.
He loves to run and jump and I worry that he's going to hurt himself. There's absolutely no way I can stop it as he does it when he's in his RLH mode. He's tumbled a couple of times during our fetch time. That stuff isn't hurting him, right?


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## Lsprick

For AKC trials, your dog must be 15 months old to enter. My trainer says 1 year old before training can start. Gracie was 15 months old when we started training and ran her first trial at 26 months old. Now she is 32 months old and has novice titles in Standard and Jumpers. She loves to run, too, which got me interested in doing agility with her.


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## krandall

Dory said:


> Thank you so much for the advice! Karen, I think your list will keep us busy until he hits a year old LOL. Of course, we will have to do some in the garage during the winter, but it's not that cold out there now that hubby has insulated it.
> He loves to run and jump and I worry that he's going to hurt himself. There's absolutely no way I can stop it as he does it when he's in his RLH mode. He's tumbled a couple of times during our fetch time. That stuff isn't hurting him, right?


They don't USUALLY hurt themselves during puppy play, though I suppose it's not out of the realm of possibility. You just don't want to do repetitive stuff, as you have to do in training.


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## krandall

segab said:


> I started Beau at 10 months or so. The beginner's class was appropriate for his age. He's extremely focused and we've been encouraged to compete. One thing I read about Havanese and agility was to wait to at least one year old to start the weave poles. He's now 14 months and we still have not done concentrated training on the weaves. He loves it and everyone loves watching him.


You are right, they should DEFINITELY not be doing weaves before one year, nor should they be jumping anything higher than "jump bumps" (about the height of a swim "noodle") This isn't just Havanese though, it's all dogs.

The very top agility trainers will tell you that if you look at a dog who started agility training at one year vs. one that did "puppy agility" or "beginner agility" before their first B'day, by the time they start competing at 15-18 months, you won't be able to tell them apart. Beginner (or puppy) agility classes, at best, are a way to spend some fun time with your dog. At worst, they can get the puppy hurt, because their bones and joints are immature.

Also, they can learn some bad habits that need to be unlearned later if they don't have a solid grounding in obedience first. It makes me nutty when I see "beginner agility classes" (and I'm NOT saying yours was like this, but there are lots that are) where the dogs are being lead around over obstacles on-leash. If the dog won't stay with the handler and be attentive to the handler's direction, they are not yet ready for agility.

Learning to do the obstacles (with the exception of the weaves... that DOES take longer!) is a matter of a few weeks. The HARD part, and the part that takes the longest, is learning good handling skills. The dogs learn much faster than we do!:biggrin1:


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## krandall

segab said:


> I started Beau at 10 months or so. The beginner's class was appropriate for his age. He's extremely focused and we've been encouraged to compete. One thing I read about Havanese and agility was to wait to at least one year old to start the weave poles. He's now 14 months and we still have not done concentrated training on the weaves. He loves it and everyone loves watching him.


Oh, and I'm SO glad you've decided to consider competition! The pictures of Beau are darling, and make it very clear that he LOVES his work!!!


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## Lsprick

Karen, I so agree! I got lost on a Jumpers course several weeks ago and my agility friends jokingly told me I should have followed Gracie!


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## krandall

Lsprick said:


> Karen, I so agree! I got lost on a Jumpers course several weeks ago and my agility friends jokingly told me I should have followed Gracie!


The animals do always seem to figure out the mechanics of things faster than we do... I used to have a wonderful jumper mare. Her attitude on course was, "Your job is to tell me which fence is next. After that, JUST STAY OUT OF MY WAY!!!"ound:

I think that happens a lot with our dogs too. The really experienced people make it all look SO easy. Then I'll see the people in my class (myself right with the rest of them!) make mistakes where the dog just looks at us and goes...:doh::brick:


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## miller123

I did rear end awarness and poles on the ground as soon as I got him, and i got a tunnle. When he was 4.5 months old i built a table and a mini aframe, and worked on those. When he was 6 months I bult some low jumps and we worked on that kind of stuff. When he was eight moths old, we started a puppy/begginers agility class that did low jumps, tunnles a table and a low dogwalk. I started his weaves when he was elevin and a half months old, but because I used the channel way, He did no real weaving untill he was a year. I would also reccomend that you do an obedance class.


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## Charleysmom

I've also thought about agility for Charley. Of course he loves running (he's a puppy) but he also doesn't have the hesitancy I see in a lot of dogs. When I first got him (and didn't know that he shouldn't be jumping) he's sailed right over a bar I held at 6 inches and then 9 inches. He just didn't even seem to give it a second thought. He goes right through hula hoops and just loves the 18 ft tunnel we have. Of course I don't let him jump anymore but I know he's got it in him. I'm going to work on the list Karen gave - we havne't done fast and slow at all. (what kind of collar is best for this kind of work???) We've just done a little bit of "Easy" when he's trying to walk too fast. Charley will walk off the lead on my left side (in the house and garage) but we haven't done the right side. I love the ladder idea and will try that. 
One of the things that Charley loves to do is return the beach ball to me. He's so adorable. I throw this big ball and he brings it back by pushing it with his nose and body. It's so adorable. I understand there are competitions for this kind of thing and I think charley would do great. I mean, he'll run after and return this beach ball to me as long as I'm willing to play. Sometimes I use it as a "let's use up your energy kind of exercise." Anyway, a little off topic. Sorry. I think agility would be a great challenge with great rewards.


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## krandall

Charleysmom said:


> I've also thought about agility for Charley. Of course he loves running (he's a puppy) but he also doesn't have the hesitancy I see in a lot of dogs. When I first got him (and didn't know that he shouldn't be jumping) he's sailed right over a bar I held at 6 inches and then 9 inches. He just didn't even seem to give it a second thought. He goes right through hula hoops and just loves the 18 ft tunnel we have. Of course I don't let him jump anymore but I know he's got it in him. I'm going to work on the list Karen gave - we havne't done fast and slow at all. (what kind of collar is best for this kind of work???) We've just done a little bit of "Easy" when he's trying to walk too fast. Charley will walk off the lead on my left side (in the house and garage) but we haven't done the right side. I love the ladder idea and will try that.


You can use any normal buckle collar or even your harness. You DON'T use the collar or harness to slow the dog or speed them up. when they are walking by your side on a loose lead, try slowing your pace and see if he does too. Immediately click (or say your "marker" word) and treat at the seam of your pants. If he doesn't slow naturally, you may need more work on keeping his attention on you during heeling (or loose leash walking). Try going just one step then treat, then two steps then treat to get a slower pace. Going faster is usually not a problem... typically, if you run, the pup will happily run with you. The trick is to get them to slow again when you do. And remember to practice this on both sides!!!

And, of course, eventually you need to do this OFF LEASH, in which case, the type of collar matters not at all. In fact, in some agility venues, the dogs are REQUIRED to run the course naked. It is felt that a collar can be dangerous, as it could get caught on a piece of equipment. None of them let you leave anything but a flat buckle collar without tags on the dog in competition.


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## lise

krandall said:


> You can use any normal buckle collar or even your harness. You DON'T use the collar or harness to slow the dog or speed them up. when they are walking by your side on a loose lead, try slowing your pace and see if he does too. Immediately click (or say your "marker" word) and treat at the seam of your pants. If he doesn't slow naturally, you may need more work on keeping his attention on you during heeling (or loose leash walking). Try going just one step then treat, then two steps then treat to get a slower pace. Going faster is usually not a problem... typically, if you run, the pup will happily run with you. The trick is to get them to slow again when you do. And remember to practice this on both sides!!!
> 
> And, of course, eventually you need to do this OFF LEASH, in which case, the type of collar matters not at all. In fact, in some agility venues, the dogs are REQUIRED to run the course naked. It is felt that a collar can be dangerous, as it could get caught on a piece of equipment. None of them let you leave anything but a flat buckle collar without tags on the dog in competition.


Ted is doing quite well off leash. He follows me anywhere as long as he has seen that tret in my hand. There is a huge open field near my house and I brought him there the other day. We ran and played hide and go seek and I never lost him once!


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## krandall

lise said:


> Ted is doing quite well off leash. He follows me anywhere as long as he has seen that tret in my hand. There is a huge open field near my house and I brought him there the other day. We ran and played hide and go seek and I never lost him once!


That's a good start, but you'll need to fade that lure pretty quickly. Try to keepthe treats in a pocket, and give them to him FREQUENTLY as rewards for staying with you, ratherthan as a lure. You don't want him to get the idea that he ONLY has to stay with you when he can see food in your hand!


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## Charleysmom

this is all great advice. thanks Karen. My impression of the lure - use it until puppy knows action on cue. once they know it, fade out the lure and reward only. is that correct?


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## Charleysmom

krandall said:


> Most of the competitive venues won't let a dog COMPETE before 18 months, but only with large breed dogs is it advisable to wait that long to begin training. With most breeds, it's safe to start training around one year.
> 
> In the mean time, there is LOTS you can do that is just "every day training" that will make things move much faster once you begin to formally train agility.
> 
> ALL of the basic obedience work is also good foundation work for agility. The dog should have a solid, sit, down and stay, fast and slow, a reliable recall in an enclosed area and should be willing to work off lead on either side of you.
> 
> Practice running in the yard keeping your pup on your right AND on your left.
> 
> Practice having your pup walk on many different surfaces.
> 
> Purchase or make a wobble board to practice on so they get used to things moving under their feet.
> 
> Lay a ladder on the ground and have the pup practice walking through it, over the rungs. This is great for teaching body awareness and foot placement.
> 
> Teach them to turn either right and left or "here" and "away", whichever is easier for you.
> 
> Teach them to LOVE tug games, and to release on command.
> 
> There is MUCH more you could work on before ever exposing your pup to a piece of agility equipment, but my guess is that this list would keep you pretty darned busy for the first year!!! At the same time, none of the exercises put any strain on developing joints!


Regarding the ladder, I just put one down on the ground and but a piece of kibble in the center of each rung to get Charley used to going into the rung. He's tentative but with practice I'm sure that will change. Also, with a lure I walked him through from the bottom to the top. 
Couple of questions - do you use one those 12 foot ladders? The space in between rungs is small. And what method to you use to get pup to go over the rungs etc? Maybe I need to review "over" with him and then practice going "over" the rung?


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## krandall

Charleysmom said:


> this is all great advice. thanks Karen. My impression of the lure - use it until puppy knows action on cue. once they know it, fade out the lure and reward only. is that correct?


Yes, but it is even better if you can get the behavior, even in short bursts, without a food lure and REWARD for the desired behavior. They learn faster that way. So, if you can keep him close to you off leash by saying "pup, pup, pup!" or something of the sort, then reward him for responding, that's the fastest way to establish a behavior. Oh, and don't add the verbal cue until you are pretty reliably able to get the behavior.


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## krandall

Charleysmom said:


> Regarding the ladder, I just put one down on the ground and but a piece of kibble in the center of each rung to get Charley used to going into the rung. He's tentative but with practice I'm sure that will change. Also, with a lure I walked him through from the bottom to the top.
> Couple of questions - do you use one those 12 foot ladders? The space in between rungs is small. And what method to you use to get pup to go over the rungs etc? Maybe I need to review "over" with him and then practice going "over" the rung?


I don't even remember where I got the ladder I used with Kodi. It wasn't very long, though. Certainly no more than 12 ft, I seem to remember it as shorter. You can start with a piece of food between each rung, then space it out to every two rungs, then 3, etc, until he is doing the whole grid as one. I would not teach (over) for each rung, as he should be learning to navigate the whole ladder as one piece. If anything, get him comfortable doing the whole sequence, then put it on cue as "ladder". (besides, you may want to save "over" for a jump cue later on)

Also, remember, using kibble for training is kind of like using a child's breakfast cereal as a reward... pretty low value. If you are serious about training, you will probably have to work on developing a hierarchy of training treats from low value to high value.


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## Charleysmom

krandall said:


> I don't even remember where I got the ladder I used with Kodi. It wasn't very long, though. Certainly no more than 12 ft, I seem to remember it as shorter. You can start with a piece of food between each rung, then space it out to every two rungs, then 3, etc, until he is doing the whole grid as one. I would not teach (over) for each rung, as he should be learning to navigate the whole ladder as one piece. If anything, get him comfortable doing the whole sequence, then put it on cue as "ladder". (besides, you may want to save "over" for a jump cue later on)
> 
> Also, remember, using kibble for training is kind of like using a child's breakfast cereal as a reward... pretty low value. If you are serious about training, you will probably have to work on developing a hierarchy of training treats from low value to high value.


that's great advice. a hierachy of treats! gee, all I use is his kibble and he goes for it. usually more=high value; less = low value. For example, when he comes to me on cue when we're outside and he was previously distracted, he gets a whole bunch of kibble. a sit just gets one piece. Do you suggest treats? Cooked chicken? Just wondering what you use.


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## Charleysmom

Charleysmom said:


> that's great advice. a hierachy of treats! gee, all I use is his kibble and he goes for it. usually more=high value; less = low value. For example, when he comes to me on cue when we're outside and he was previously distracted, he gets a whole bunch of kibble. a sit just gets one piece. Do you suggest treats? Cooked chicken? Just wondering what you use.


by the way, I placed the ladder down in our training area. I thought I'd let him explore it first. Is it better not to leave it down all the time or does that matter? Thinking about it, maybe it does. Also, can you suggest a good book on pre-agility training? I love the Focused Puppy but I'd like to go a step further.


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## Charleysmom

just did the ladder with Charley this morning. First I put kibble in each rung and then reduced it to only 2 etc. NO problem. He's into the ladder. No cue yet. Maybe in a couple of days. I'm wondering what we do after he's done the ladder? he's a bold little guy and catches on quickly.


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## miller123

Charleysmom said:


> just did the ladder with Charley this morning. First I put kibble in each rung and then reduced it to only 2 etc. NO problem. He's into the ladder. No cue yet. Maybe in a couple of days. I'm wondering what we do after he's done the ladder? he's a bold little guy and catches on quickly.


you could make a tippy board, maybe make the PVC in this a bit smaller and slowly work your way up to that size

http://kathy-agilityadventures.blogspot.ca/2010/03/making-teeter-board-and-you-can-drag-it.html


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## krandall

Charleysmom said:


> that's great advice. a hierachy of treats! gee, all I use is his kibble and he goes for it. usually more=high value; less = low value. For example, when he comes to me on cue when we're outside and he was previously distracted, he gets a whole bunch of kibble. a sit just gets one piece. Do you suggest treats? Cooked chicken? Just wondering what you use.


When Kodi was younger, and not at competition level, I used a lot of soft foods like boiled chicken, natural low salt hot dogs, deli meat, cheese, all cut into tiny pieces. Once he reached a certain level, I had to have treats that could go right in my pocket without falling apart or making a mess. The reason for that is that they become very aware of a bait bag, and will perform differently if you aren't wearing it. So as you approach competition level performance, you want to make sure they will continue to work, even if they can't see any food. So now I use mostly freeze dried meats of various types. I buy a lot of Bravo products, Merrick's lamb lung and Ziwi Peaks lamb jerky. Whatever you use, have a number of different options and rotate through them to keep their interest. I try to choose training treats that have good food value so that they are a nutritious PART of his overall diet.

When you say you give him "a whole bunch of kibble" under some circumstances, It is definitely a good idea to "pay" different amounts for different expectations. But I hope you know to pay the pieces out one at a time. "one handful" is still "one" in a dog's mind! My trainer is convinced that dogs can count to three. She says they count "one, two, three, LOTS!!!":biggrin1: so for a "bonus worthy" performance, give him four pieces, one at a time. Again, size doesn't matter, so the treats can be TINY!!!!


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## krandall

Charleysmom said:


> by the way, I placed the ladder down in our training area. I thought I'd let him explore it first. Is it better not to leave it down all the time or does that matter? Thinking about it, maybe it does. Also, can you suggest a good book on pre-agility training? I love the Focused Puppy but I'd like to go a step further.


I don't think there is any problem with leaving the ladder down in your training area... kodi's agility course stays set up. You do want to move it around, though, once he learns to do it, so he generalizes the skill and is able to do it anywhere. Remember, also, that this is really a body awareness exercise, not a real agility obstacle. He'll never be faced with a ladder in agility competition.

I do have an agility book I used in the beginning... I'll see if I can dig it out and get the name for you. But a lot of what I learned, I learned from my instructors and from my friend who is a trainer. (who actually went down to the King's with me to help pick Kodi out!)


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## krandall

Charleysmom said:


> just did the ladder with Charley this morning. First I put kibble in each rung and then reduced it to only 2 etc. NO problem. He's into the ladder. No cue yet. Maybe in a couple of days. I'm wondering what we do after he's done the ladder? he's a bold little guy and catches on quickly.


I like wobble boards better than tippy boards for puppies. You don't need to approximate a teeter yet. The point is to get the puppy used to movement under their feet and work on balance. But if you WERE to make this, I'd not only make the PVC smaller, but make the board much wider as well, so the puppy doesn't worry about falling off the side at the same time he's worrying about the board tipping.

You could certainly get a couple of play tunnels for him. These can be purchased online:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...+tunnels+for+kids&sprefix=Play+tunnel,aps,254

I also had a couple of wood pallets for Kodi to learn to walk across. This was actually not specifically for agility, but because where we walk, there is an old train bridge. The rest of the rails and ties have been taken away, but the ties are still in place on the bridge. Kodi was very afraid of walking across this bridge as a puppy, becaus ehe was unsure of his footing stepping from one tie to the next. He couldn't fall through, but there was a drop of at least 6" between the ties... A long way for short puppy legs!!! So by teaching him to walk slowly and carefully across the pallets, he learned that he could also handle those railroad ties if he didn't panic and start scrambling!

Please remember that obstacles are EASY to teach. I would be working really hard on training all those every day obedience skills that will be so important when he IS ready for agility. Are you working regularly with a trainer at this point?


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## miller123

here is a wobble or buja board

http://batmanimal.com/post/17182939532/born-to-buja-how-to-make-a-wobble-board-for-agility


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## krandall

miller123 said:


> here is a wobble or buja board
> 
> http://batmanimal.com/post/17182939532/born-to-buja-how-to-make-a-wobble-board-for-agility


Or if you're like me, and not to DIY-ish, they can be purchased reasonably via Amazon or several other places:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/FitPAWS-Wobble-Board-Fitness-Agility/dp/B006HKASFY"]Amazon.com: FitPAWS 20" Wobble Board for Dog Fitness and Agility: Pet Supplies[/ame]


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## Charleysmom

miller123 said:


> you could make a tippy board, maybe make the PVC in this a bit smaller and slowly work your way up to that size
> 
> http://kathy-agilityadventures.blogspot.ca/2010/03/making-teeter-board-and-you-can-drag-it.html


thanks for the idea of the tippy board. it looks difficult to make so you must be handy. i think it would be great to have though and quite a challenge for Charley.


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## Charleysmom

krandall said:


> I don't think there is any problem with leaving the ladder down in your training area... kodi's agility course stays set up. You do want to move it around, though, once he learns to do it, so he generalizes the skill and is able to do it anywhere. Remember, also, that this is really a body awareness exercise, not a real agility obstacle. He'll never be faced with a ladder in agility competition.
> 
> I do have an agility book I used in the beginning... I'll see if I can dig it out and get the name for you. But a lot of what I learned, I learned from my instructors and from my friend who is a trainer. (who actually went down to the King's with me to help pick Kodi out!)


thanks. that would be great if you can find the book. regarding the ladder, Charley is starting to have fun with it. TOday he went up and then back again, click reward. He doesn't need the lure anymore, and so I've added the cue "Ladder." It's so much fun teaching him something new. I'm leaving the ladder down simply because it's much simpler.


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## Charleysmom

krandall said:


> I like wobble boards better than tippy boards for puppies. You don't need to approximate a teeter yet. The point is to get the puppy used to movement under their feet and work on balance. But if you WERE to make this, I'd not only make the PVC smaller, but make the board much wider as well, so the puppy doesn't worry about falling off the side at the same time he's worrying about the board tipping.
> 
> You could certainly get a couple of play tunnels for him. These can be purchased online:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...+tunnels+for+kids&sprefix=Play+tunnel,aps,254
> 
> I also had a couple of wood pallets for Kodi to learn to walk across. This was actually not specifically for agility, but because where we walk, there is an old train bridge. The rest of the rails and ties have been taken away, but the ties are still in place on the bridge. Kodi was very afraid of walking across this bridge as a puppy, becaus ehe was unsure of his footing stepping from one tie to the next. He couldn't fall through, but there was a drop of at least 6" between the ties... A long way for short puppy legs!!! So by teaching him to walk slowly and carefully across the pallets, he learned that he could also handle those railroad ties if he didn't panic and start scrambling!
> 
> Please remember that obstacles are EASY to teach. I would be working really hard on training all those every day obedience skills that will be so important when he IS ready for agility. Are you working regularly with a trainer at this point?


I'm not working with a trainer. Do I need to? We seem to be doing okay so far. But I'm really new at all this. And, yes, thanks for the reminder regarding obedience skills. We work on them everyday. A few things seem to sinking in, e.g., earlier today Charley was playing with a couple of his dog buddies and in the middle of the play, I called him to me and he listened. :whoo: Also, he's been walking better too. Loose leash much of the time and if he does begin to pull, I say "Wait" and he listens. Anyway, I think he's doing really well - so do we need a trainer?


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## Charleysmom

krandall said:


> I like wobble boards better than tippy boards for puppies. You don't need to approximate a teeter yet. The point is to get the puppy used to movement under their feet and work on balance. But if you WERE to make this, I'd not only make the PVC smaller, but make the board much wider as well, so the puppy doesn't worry about falling off the side at the same time he's worrying about the board tipping.
> 
> You could certainly get a couple of play tunnels for him. These can be purchased online:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...+tunnels+for+kids&sprefix=Play+tunnel,aps,254
> 
> I also had a couple of wood pallets for Kodi to learn to walk across. This was actually not specifically for agility, but because where we walk, there is an old train bridge. The rest of the rails and ties have been taken away, but the ties are still in place on the bridge. Kodi was very afraid of walking across this bridge as a puppy, becaus ehe was unsure of his footing stepping from one tie to the next. He couldn't fall through, but there was a drop of at least 6" between the ties... A long way for short puppy legs!!! So by teaching him to walk slowly and carefully across the pallets, he learned that he could also handle those railroad ties if he didn't panic and start scrambling!
> 
> Please remember that obstacles are EASY to teach. I would be working really hard on training all those every day obedience skills that will be so important when he IS ready for agility. Are you working regularly with a trainer at this point?


oh yes, Charley has an 18 foot tunnel and he loves it. He loves playing with his dog buddies. Charley will usually get the ball and make the other dogs chase him through the tunnel to get the ball. It's so much. I'm thinking to get a 6 foot tunnel as well.


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## krandall

Charleysmom said:


> I'm not working with a trainer. Do I need to? We seem to be doing okay so far. But I'm really new at all this. And, yes, thanks for the reminder regarding obedience skills. We work on them everyday. A few things seem to sinking in, e.g., earlier today Charley was playing with a couple of his dog buddies and in the middle of the play, I called him to me and he listened. :whoo: Also, he's been walking better too. Loose leash much of the time and if he does begin to pull, I say "Wait" and he listens. Anyway, I think he's doing really well - so do we need a trainer?


I guess it depends on your goals. If you want to do any competitive obedience, rally or agility, then yes, you really need to work with an experienced trainer. There is SO much to proper handling, footwork and body position in ALL these sports that it's really hard to get good at them without that feedback. If you just want to have some fun in the back yard, I suppose you don't HAVE to have lessons, but I bet both you and he would enjoy it!


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## Charleysmom

i'm not sure of the goals at this point. I know that Charley loves learning and I love teaching him. It seems the more he learns the easier and more fun he is to be with. I mean it's really great to communicate with your dog. at this point it's just fun. haven';t thought about competing in the future. I don't know what's involved really. but most of all, I just want Charley to have a great life. if he's good, competing might be fun. so I guess it's something to think about but as I said, I don't know what's involved.


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## Charleysmom

thanks Karen for all your help on this. maybe I'll pick up a book on agility and find out what is involved, i.e., where are the competitions, what it takes to enter, qualifiers, cost, etc. I suppose meanwhile it's a good idea to continue with the obedience training that we've all talked about. I do know a good trainer. I will speak to him about all of the above. Thank you for all your input and support. I think Charley and I would have a absolute blast!


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## krandall

Charleysmom said:


> thanks Karen for all your help on this. maybe I'll pick up a book on agility and find out what is involved, i.e., where are the competitions, what it takes to enter, qualifiers, cost, etc. I suppose meanwhile it's a good idea to continue with the obedience training that we've all talked about. I do know a good trainer. I will speak to him about all of the above. Thank you for all your input and support. I think Charley and I would have a absolute blast!


Here is the book I told you about:

Amazon.com: The Beginner's Guide to Dog Agility (9780793805464): Laurie Leach: Books

There are a number of different Agility venues...

AKC
USDAA
NADAC
CPE
TDAA

And a couple of others. You need to find out which have competitions in your area, and decide which you'd like to try. Right now, Kodi and I are concentrating on AKC and NADAC. But you can read all the rules and find a list of competitions on each organization's web site. You can go. And watch a couple of competitions too. Agility people are a nice bunch, and very willing to answer beginner questions!


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## Dory

krandall said:


> Here is the book I told you about:
> 
> Amazon.com: The Beginner's Guide to Dog Agility (9780793805464): Laurie Leach: Books
> 
> There are a number of different Agility venues...
> 
> AKC
> USDAA
> NADAC
> CPE
> TDAA
> 
> And a couple of others. You need to find out which have competitions in your area, and decide which you'd like to try. Right now, Kodi and I are concentrating on AKC and NADAC. But you can read all the rules and find a list of competitions on each organization's web site. You can go. And watch a couple of competitions too. Agility people are a nice bunch, and very willing to answer beginner questions!


I picked up this book recently, but haven't had a chance to really sit down and read it. Amazingly enough, I haven't had much time to read at all since Quincy came home LOL. Imagine that!
Anyway, thank you for all of the wonderful information and tips shared in this thread. I am looking forward to starting some of the easy stuff with Quincy soon (well, as soon as I can get hubby back in the workshop to make some homemade stuff!)


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## Charleysmom

thanks for the suggestion. a beginner book is just what I need. I also like the idea of going to a competition just to see what it's like. I'll keep you posted.


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## apololaceymom

Agility is so much fun! Apolo was 1.5 years old when we started, he is 2 years and 8 months now, and has his novice standard and jumpers title, and 1 Q in open standard and jumpers so far. We love it. Lacey is 13 months, and is just completing her intro to agility course. She has a solid base of obedience, and we also did 2 6 week sessions of handling skills class. She is much more advanced than Apolo was, and so am I! I think she will progress quickly, and hopefully will be starting to compete by the time she is 2. I have 3 Havs and go every week, 3 times a week at different levels of training, faithfully. It keeps me busy and my Havs learning and having fun. I HIGHLY recommend it!


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## davetgabby

apololaceymom said:


> Agility is so much fun! Apolo was 1.5 years old when we started, he is 2 years and 8 months now, and has his novice standard and jumpers title, and 1 Q in open standard and jumpers so far. We love it. Lacey is 13 months, and is just completing her intro to agility course. She has a solid base of obedience, and we also did 2 6 week sessions of handling skills class. She is much more advanced than Apolo was, and so am I! I think she will progress quickly, and hopefully will be starting to compete by the time she is 2. I have 3 Havs and go every week, 3 times a week at different levels of training, faithfully. It keeps me busy and my Havs learning and having fun. I HIGHLY recommend it!


good for you, you know we love pictures.


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## krandall

apololaceymom said:


> Agility is so much fun! Apolo was 1.5 years old when we started, he is 2 years and 8 months now, and has his novice standard and jumpers title, and 1 Q in open standard and jumpers so far. We love it. Lacey is 13 months, and is just completing her intro to agility course. She has a solid base of obedience, and we also did 2 6 week sessions of handling skills class. She is much more advanced than Apolo was, and so am I! I think she will progress quickly, and hopefully will be starting to compete by the time she is 2. I have 3 Havs and go every week, 3 times a week at different levels of training, faithfully. It keeps me busy and my Havs learning and having fun. I HIGHLY recommend it!


Hi!!! Kodi and I are *so* happy to see you here! You'll find this is a really great, supportive community, and I'm always thrilled to see more "performance people" here on the board. I know who you are, but the rest of the folks here don't. It's up to you, of course, but most of us share our first names.

Glad to have you with us!


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## apololaceymom

krandall said:


> Hi!!! Kodi and I are *so* happy to see you here! You'll find this is a really great, supportive community, and I'm always thrilled to see more "performance people" here on the board. I know who you are, but the rest of the folks here don't. It's up to you, of course, but most of us share our first names.
> 
> Glad to have you with us!


Of course...Kathy is my name. I am still trying to navigate the site, how to upload pics and such. Lots of great reading here. I joined a long time ago, just never got back here...


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## krandall

I'm glad you're back!


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## Charleysmom

apololaceymom said:


> Agility is so much fun! Apolo was 1.5 years old when we started, he is 2 years and 8 months now, and has his novice standard and jumpers title, and 1 Q in open standard and jumpers so far. We love it. Lacey is 13 months, and is just completing her intro to agility course. She has a solid base of obedience, and we also did 2 6 week sessions of handling skills class. She is much more advanced than Apolo was, and so am I! I think she will progress quickly, and hopefully will be starting to compete by the time she is 2. I have 3 Havs and go every week, 3 times a week at different levels of training, faithfully. It keeps me busy and my Havs learning and having fun. I HIGHLY recommend it!


Good for you and Apollo. It all sounds great. Would love to see some pictures
Lori


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## lise

My trainer has a puppy agility class that she says involves no jumping. What are peoples thoughts?


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## apololaceymom

lise said:


> My trainer has a puppy agility class that she says involves no jumping. What are peoples thoughts?


I think it's wonderful...the earlier you get them started, the better!!!! Have fun!!!


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## krandall

lise said:


> My trainer has a puppy agility class that she says involves no jumping. What are peoples thoughts?


I don't agree on this one. I think your money is MUCH better spent on solid obedience lessons. Puppy agility classes may be "fun", but they don't really teach the dog (and more importantly, YOU!) anything you can't learn QUICKLY once your dog is a full year old.

Also, make sure that if you do decide to do the class just for the fun of it, that it doesn't include any weaves either. Weaving is JUST as hard on young bodies as jumping. Neither should be done until your dog is a year old.

It doesn't take long at all to get a motivated dog used to the other obstacles, so in a 6 week class after the dog is a year, you will have caught up with those who did puppy agility.


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## lise

krandall said:


> I don't agree on this one. I think your money is MUCH better spent on solid obedience lessons. Puppy agility classes may be "fun", but they don't really teach the dog (and more importantly, YOU!) anything you can't learn QUICKLY once your dog is a full year old.
> 
> Also, make sure that if you do decide to do the class just for the fun of it, that it doesn't include any weaves either. Weaving is JUST as hard on young bodies as jumping. Neither should be done until your dog is a year old.
> 
> It doesn't take long at all to get a motivated dog used to the other obstacles, so in a 6 week class after the dog is a year, you will have caught up with those who did puppy agility.


Ted will complete his obedience class in 2 weeks. This is after that. I didnt ask about weaves.
Her ad says "we will be fine tuning the obedience skills by working on focused stays with distraction, and heel work as well as tailoring skills to what you will need for agility. Toys will be introduced to motivate and reward the dog as an alternative to food. We will do some tricks that are prep work for a warm up routine for your dog and to teach balance and control.
The concepts of targeting will be introduced. Introductory level equipment, such as low planks, tables, wobble boards, tunnels and ladders will also allow the dog a chance to experience differrent obstacles and build confindence." Introductory jump work and jump grids will also be worked on." When I asked about jumps she said there was no height to them.


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## krandall

lise said:


> Ted will complete his obedience class in 2 weeks. This is after that. I didnt ask about weaves.
> Her ad says "we will be fine tuning the obedience skills by working on focused stays with distraction, and heel work as well as tailoring skills to what you will need for agility. Toys will be introduced to motivate and reward the dog as an alternative to food. We will do some tricks that are prep work for a warm up routine for your dog and to teach balance and control.
> The concepts of targeting will be introduced. Introductory level equipment, such as low planks, tables, wobble boards, tunnels and ladders will also allow the dog a chance to experience differrent obstacles and build confindence." Introductory jump work and jump grids will also be worked on." When I asked about jumps she said there was no height to them.


That all sounds fine. It sounds more like "preparation for agility", which is PERFECTLY appropriate for him now!


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## Charleysmom

krandall said:


> Here is the book I told you about:
> 
> Amazon.com: The Beginner's Guide to Dog Agility (9780793805464): Laurie Leach: Books
> 
> There are a number of different Agility venues...
> 
> AKC
> USDAA
> NADAC
> CPE
> TDAA
> 
> And a couple of others. You need to find out which have competitions in your area, and decide which you'd like to try. Right now, Kodi and I are concentrating on AKC and NADAC. But you can read all the rules and find a list of competitions on each organization's web site. You can go. And watch a couple of competitions too. Agility people are a nice bunch, and very willing to answer beginner questions!


The book ThenBeginner's Guide to Agility arrived the other day and I've been reading it. It talks about the fact that puppy shouldn't do jumps, weaves etc until the bones have grown a certain way. They also mention no twisting until that time. 
I'm just wondering, puppy play gets pretty intense. And Charley plays quite a lot. Is that the kind of twisting that is being referred to? Should I be concerned about this?


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## lise

I know I checked in the class that Ted is going to next week, weaving and jumping are not involved.


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## krandall

Charleysmom said:


> The book ThenBeginner's Guide to Agility arrived the other day and I've been reading it. It talks about the fact that puppy shouldn't do jumps, weaves etc until the bones have grown a certain way. They also mention no twisting until that time.
> I'm just wondering, puppy play gets pretty intense. And Charley plays quite a lot. Is that the kind of twisting that is being referred to? Should I be concerned about this?


Puppies play pretty wild, but they also know when they are getting tired, and will quit and go lie down. That's different than the repetition of training. The weaves are the kind of twisting you want to avoid for now, along with the repetitive strain of jumping over obstacles on demand. We all know that they jump on and off the couch, and jump obstacles in the woods that are twice their height in the woods on a walk. But it isn't the same movement done over and over, and it is the pup's idea.

For the most part, you don't need to worry about normal play. You SHOULD try to prevent them from jumping OFF high places. This can cause serious injury in a single jump, no repetitions needed.


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## Charleysmom

thanks. that's a great explanation. Charley hasn't jumped up on anything or off so we're good. Although lately he's been trying to jump up to the height up the kitchen countertops. He does this cute little hop on his hind legs sort of like a dancer.


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## krandall

Charleysmom said:


> thanks. that's a great explanation. Charley hasn't jumped up on anything or off so we're good. Although lately he's been trying to jump up to the height up the kitchen countertops. He does this cute little hop on his hind legs sort of like a dancer.


Kodi does the same thing. It's AMAZING how much spring they have in those hind legs!!! That's why, when ti IS time to start jumping them, the jumping part of agility is almost a non-issue for them. They are so springy, they can easily clear heights MUCH greater than what is required for their size. Kodi is at the very bottom of the 12" height category, so I'm SURE there are no Havs that have to jump higher than 12". My guess is that most are in the 8" category, which is easy peasey for any sound Havanese!


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## Charleysmom

Now that charley knows he can jump up with a hop he keeps doing it. Today he was jumping up to catch a mosquito!!! So cute.
I can seehow 8 incheswouldbe simple. But not all havs. Iknow 2 havs that just dont seem like jumpers.


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## lise

When ever Ted plays with anything, be it a bug or a toy or the door stopper he loves to jump forward and backward at the object. Its so funny!


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## Charleysmom

it's so cute when they do that!


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