# Havanese and birds



## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

Is there anyone on the board that has Havanese and birds? In particular large birds like parrots. We have two parakeets but I would really like to get a Molucan cockatoo. I am not sure how that would work with Nina. She does not seem to mind the parkeets too much but I have anxiously kept them sepperated. Before Nina came the paprakeets would be free down stairs nearly daily. I clip their wings so at times they fly and at other times they don't. They spend way more time in their cage then they used to since Nina arived but seem overal OK. I think mostly because there is two of them. If I would get the cockatoo I would definitely only get one and he would need atleast two hours or so outside of his cage daily. Is it possible to have a large bird like a cockatoo/parrot and a small dog like my Nina, 7 lb. Nina is now 7 1/2 months old.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

Good question! I have always wanted an African Gray...I think my girls would attack at this point...and Grays live so long, it would outlive me at this point, which I don't want to have it attached to me and then have to go somewhere stange...but I hate to live my life having never had one!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

We have a green rumped parrotlet, so she is not a large bird. But. She is fully flighted, and is loose for several hours daily. Kodi pays no attention to her at all... The cat is afraid of her:biggrin1:

Linda, mom to Augie and Finn has parrots too, and I believe hers are larger ones. So hopefully she can answer. Your questions. Think long and hard though, not in relationship to your Hav, but about the committment to a large parrot in general. They are very long-lived birds, and a huge commitment. Few people are willing and/or able to give them the kind of care they need and deserve for 50 or more years. Even our little Sunny, who will most likely "only" live about 20 years is a big committment. As much as I enjoy her, she's also a fair amount of work, and pretty noisey... And she's WAY less noisy and demanding than the big ones are.


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

dodrop82 said:


> Good question! I have always wanted an African Gray...I think my girls would attack at this point...and Grays live so long, it would outlive me at this point, which I don't want to have it attached to me and then have to go somewhere stange...but I hate to live my life having never had one!


Ooohhh don't think that way. I definitely don't think you should not have one because it will outlive you.That seems to be the way it is with parrots. They own different humans. The ones I am looking at are older birds and for different reasons they are being rehomed or in rescue. The one I like the most has been for 17 yrs with the same family. Still all of them could outlive me easily. One of my young children is a true bird lover so he would most likely inherit any birds. One of my 14 yr old DD's has already claimed Nina if I happen to go before Nina goes. LOL It is good to know she is loved.


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

krandall said:


> We have a green rumped parrotlet, so she is not a large bird. But. She is fully flighted, and is loose for several hours daily. Kodi pays no attention to her at all... The cat is afraid of her:biggrin1:
> 
> Linda, mom to Augie and Finn has parrots too, and I believe hers are larger ones. So hopefully she can answer. Your questions. Think long and hard though, not in relationship to your Hav, but about the committment to a large parrot in general. They are very long-lived birds, and a huge commitment. Few people are willing and/or able to give them the kind of care they need and deserve for 50 or more years. Even our little Sunny, who will most likely "only" live about 20 years is a big committment. As much as I enjoy her, she's also a fair amount of work, and pretty noisey... And she's WAY less noisy and demanding than the big ones are.


quote-Few people are willing and/or able to give them the kind of care they need and deserve for 50 or more years.-quote

So true and I would have a plan in place for her as I do for my children, Nina the Havanese and parakeets. I very much doubt I will have 50 more yrs. The bird I am mainly looking at is 17 and the people that own him have had him from baby time. I have a friend that has 2 parrots, one a bare eyed cockatoo. So I am pretty familiar with parrots. Also when I grew up my neighbor had one in Europe. Very rare and it was the only one I knew of in a private home there. Parrots and cockatoo also vary a lot and I know which ones would not be right for the family. I like African Greys a lot but we have a very large family and African Greys are typically one person parrots. But thank you for reminding me and pointing out very important points and concerns when aquiring a parrot. It seems like me you are a bird lover too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Anna6 said:


> quote-Few people are willing and/or able to give them the kind of care they need and deserve for 50 or more years.-quote
> 
> So true and I would have a plan in place for her as I do for my children, Nina the Havanese and parakeets. I very much doubt I will have 50 more yrs. The bird I am mainly looking at is 17 and the people that own him have had him from baby time. I have a friend that has 2 parrots, one a bare eyed cockatoo. So I am pretty familiar with parrots. Also when I grew up my neighbor had one in Europe. Very rare and it was the only one I knew of in a private home there. Parrots and cockatoo also vary a lot and I know which ones would not be right for the family. I like African Greys a lot but we have a very large family and African Greys are typically one person parrots. But thank you for reminding me and pointing out very important points and concerns when aquiring a parrot. It seems like me you are a bird lover too.


Yes, I have had birds of one sort or another since I was a small child. Every one has been for life, and that is the only way I would have it. (barring unforseen accident/illness, of course) even small parrots/parrotlets are very, very bright. They CAN adjust to a new home if they must, but it certainly isn't ideal, and IMO, isn't in their best interests. This is one of the reasons you see so much self-mutilation and other abnormal behaviors among captive psittacines.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

I have a smaller parrot - a male red-bellied parrot, and two male cockatiels. My birds are full flighted and I will admit that they haven't enjoyed as much outside of cage time as they did before the Havs came to live. I had the birds first and in my search for dog breeds that got along well with other pets, including birds, the Havanese came up. Augie and Finn still seem a little too interested in the birds when they are flying around the house and so I usually crate them when the birds are out or monitor them very closely. I do agree with Karen's comment that people should really give a lot of thought and consideration before acquiring a parrot. Even cleaning the cages for my smaller birds is a huge undertaking. Also the bigger the bird, the bigger the mess they seem to make. At least you have a plan, Anna6, on who would inherit the care of your birds should the need arise. Gabe, my red belly, is a hoot - but had I to do it over again?? Not so sure. Mostly because they are so long lived, and the more I think about it these days, I think birds should be able to fly out and about in the wild.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> Gabe, my red belly, is a hoot - but had I to do it over again?? Not so sure. Mostly because they are so long lived, and the more I think about it these days, I think birds should be able to fly out and about in the wild.


Particularly the big ones... I think if you are committed to it, you can give the little ones adequate "out time", and just because of their size, if you are willing to, you can give them adequate cage space to move around even there. But our 6" parrotlet has a specially made, (because of the need for closely spaced bars) powder coated welded steel cage that is the size that you typically see sold for Macaws. This is LOTS of room for her to climb around, though even in that size cage, she can't really fly and exercise her pectoral muscles. But I would HATE to see a large parrot in a cage that size. Even loose in the house, a large parrot really doesn't have the space to really fly, where Sunny can (and DOES!!!) zip after us from room to room as we move through the house.

Which brings up another point... another thing that shortens the life span of many parrots is having their wings kept clipped, so being unable to fly and exercise as nature intended. If their pectoral muscles aren't strong, it cuts down on their lung capacity, and predisposes them to lung diseases, which are a major killer of captive birds anyway. It's fine to clip the wings of a young bird, while you are taming it, but then, IMO, captive birds should be left flighted, and given ample time and space to exercise those wings.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

The lung issues and air-borne diseases in birds is another thing to consider. I will NOT take my birds to a place that boards birds where they could easily pick something up. I have been really fortunate to have a very reliable neighbor girl (young woman now) who really likes them and comes in to change water, feed, visit with them, and clean up after them when we go somewhere. 

Our avian vet had also told me that it is healthier for the birds if they can fly for exercise. I dream of having a sun room with a tree for my birds and easy to clean floors with a drain in the room. When I win the lottery! Haha I just think of how I would feel if some creature of another species decided he/she/it would keep me in a room somewhere, never to be allowed out to visit others of my kind, hike in the woods, walk the beach, go to garden shows, buy quilt fabric, whatever. 

Our birds do race through the house, screeching. But it still isn't the same as soaring over the trees - free to fly wherever. They don't have to worry about a hawk picking them off though.

I must say that after having these birds, I look at the wild birds outside in a different way. They have their own personalities and it is fun to watch their interactions. Birds are just like us or our Havs, in that two of the same kind (cockatiels) can have such different personalities.


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

Hmmm well since all the birds I am looking at are older I am pretty sure they are permanently clipped. Nothing I can do about that. We do have a lot of space both in and outside. when I was in the highlands of Central America I saw flocks of Macaws flying by the hundreds out of the tops of jungle trees. I count it as one of the most beautiful things I have seen in my life. Nothing like a Macaw or any bird stuck in a cage. Gosh you people make me feel bad now for even having our budgies. So what size bird is OK to have and what size not because many cockatoos and parrots are not that large compared to other captive birds? A red bellied parrot is 9 inches and a cockatoo is 12-24 inches depending on type of cockatoo. The Timneh African Grey is small 9-11 in. and is my original choice but I do not believe that would be good for our family. My friends bare eyed cockatoo is not super large at all. Goffin's cockatoo's are 12-13 in. and live about 30 yrs. Is that still too large? Oh by the way my friend with the two parrots could baby sit. Her husband worked with a bird rescue place before too.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Anna6, I certainly have no idea as to what size would be too large. It would all depend, I am sure, on what space you have for them. It certainly was NOT my intent to make you feel bad or put any guilt trips on you or sit in judgement of you for possessing birds. If you provide the same or better conditions for the birds you are considering bringing into your home, they will no doubt be fine. These birds who are born in captivity probably don't know what they are missing by being out and about. But I know. I have birds myself and it wasn't until after I already had them and realized that they are each individual little beings with personalities and likes and dislikes, etc. that I began to ponder the situation and think that this may not be something I would do again. I don't think birds born in captivity would fare very well outside if let go, so if you can provide a loving home for one or more that needs rehomed, go for it.  One of my cockatiels is a rehomed bird. 

I am not an expert on this by any means, but birds molt - they lose their feathers periodically and I would think that the clipped birds' wing feathers will grow out again at some point. If the bird never had the opportunity to fly when young, it is possible that if the wing feathers grew out that it may not be able to do it safely in an enclosed environment. Or maybe it wouldn't have the muscle to fly at all. Have no idea. We had a female cockatiel years ago, that was clipped so severely as a young bird that she had not learned how to fly safely or to sort of float to the ground. We let her wings grow out and she crashed into the wall, thankfully without injuring herself too badly. I did some research at the time and found out that they should be allowed to learn to fly and handle themselves before they are ever clipped to the point where the bird can't fly.


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

No worries Linda. I better think and know about all these things before I bring another bird into my home. I wasn't aware of people having strong feelings about other people having parrots of a certain size even if they are well cared for. As for the wings being "clipped" permanently I think that is done at the vet and possibly the feather is removed? I am not sure but it is not uncommon. Years ago a woman associated with Quails Botanical Gardens in San Diego came and visit my home with her parrots and basically ask me to take a large Cockatoo rescue when another one would come up because she felt our circumstances were so well suited. She works extensively with the bird rescue in our area. This was before I had my budgies and Nina though. I did not feel ready either at that time because my youngset two were 4 at the time. Also I want to be clear that eventhough all these animals live in a family I am the one bringing them in and making sure they get their care. Thank you for taking time to share your experiences, thoughts and opinions.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Anna6 said:


> No worries Linda. I better think and know about all these things before I bring another bird into my home. I wasn't aware of people having strong feelings about other people having parrots of a certain size even if they are well cared for. As for the wings being "clipped" permanently I think that is done at the vet and possibly the feather is removed? I am not sure but it is not uncommon. Years ago a woman associated with Quails Botanical Gardens in San Diego came and visit my home with her parrots and basically ask me to take a large Cockatoo rescue when another one would come up because she felt our circumstances were so well suited. She works extensively with the bird rescue in our area. This was before I had my budgies and Nina though. I did not feel ready either at that time because my youngset two were 4 at the time. Also I want to be clear that eventhough all these animals live in a family I am the one bringing them in and making sure they get their care. Thank you for taking time to share your experiences, thoughts and opinions.


As Linda said, our intent was not to make you feel bad, only to make sure you had thought through all of the ramifications of owning a larger bird. Especially if the birds are rescues, they are probably lucky to have a new, good, home to go to!

Even feathers that are pulled entirely grow back. This is what they do if the bird breaks a blood feather. (which can cause them to lose an ALARMING amount of blood before the feather is pulled!) They will also pull bent or damaged feathers, because new, undamaged feather will grow in faster. It's important to learn how to pull a blood feather (it requires pliers on a larger bird) so if you get one of these birds, have an experienced bird person or the vet show you how. A bird can bleed to death if left with a broken blood feather.

So if the birds have been rendered permanently unable to fly (other than the learning issue described by Linda) I believe they must be "pinioned", which means that part of the wind itself, NOT just the feathers has been removed. Again, if these birds are rescues, there's nothing that can be done after the fact, but this is a barbaric practice... much worse than docking tails and ears on a dog. It would be more akin to cutting off the dog's foot. So I HOPE that hasn't been done to these birds (though, again, I KNOW you had nothing to do with it!!!)

As far as the size bird is concerned, I think it depends COMPLETELY on the amount of space and time you have available. Even little birds should have cages big enough for serious climbing, and at LEAST hopping from branch to branch with completely open wings. Then, IMO, they should have several hours of out-time almost daily. If the birds have not been permanently de-flighted in some fashion, I would ask an experienced avian vet how best to teach them to use their wings and pectoral muscles again. It will significantly improve their overall health.

If they really will NEVER be able to fly, it puts you in the position of being even more responsible for making sure they have TONS of climbing exercise,and lots and lots of environment enriching toys and foraging opportunities.

Also remember that the bigger the bird, the more destructive they are. Plan on providing TONS of things they can take apart, shred, etc. The busier you keep them, they less noise they'll make and the less they'll destroy! (Even tiny little Sunny will eat the edges of all the papers on my desk if we don't give her lots of other things to keep her busy!!!ound

It's not that you SHOULDN'T get a bird... especially if they are rescues, these birds deserve as good a home as someone can give them. But the more you know about them, where they come from, what their nature life would be like and how you can come closest to giving them what they need, the better!


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

*Our bird is here*

We ended up buying a 2 1/2 yr old Congo African Grey that needed to be rehomed. "She" is a lot of fun and seems to be settling in well. Nina is OK with her. Not that I put them together or anything. It is pretty much the same as our paprakeets between Nina and the parrot. The parrot was used to a creamey 10 lb dog and Nina is a creamey 7 lb dog. The parrot tells Nina to sit and stop barking. She also throws a ball for Nina to fetch. We hand it back to the parrot. Now if I could just teach her to take Nina out to go potty.


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

dodrop82 said:


> Good question! I have always wanted an African Gray...I think my girls would attack at this point...and Grays live so long, it would outlive me at this point, which I don't want to have it attached to me and then have to go somewhere stange...but I hate to live my life having never had one!


We ended up getting an African Grey and I would say go for it. Ours is a rehome and was well loved. She has her issues but don't we all. The main thing is to have the right cage, keep her clean and keep her company. They take time and if you love birds then go for it.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Anna6 said:


> We ended up buying a 2 1/2 yr old Congo African Grey that needed to be rehomed. "She" is a lot of fun and seems to be settling in well. Nina is OK with her. Not that I put them together or anything. It is pretty much the same as our paprakeets between Nina and the parrot. The parrot was used to a creamey 10 lb dog and Nina is a creamey 7 lb dog. The parrot tells Nina to sit and stop barking. She also throws a ball for Nina to fetch. We hand it back to the parrot. Now if I could just teach her to take Nina out to go potty.


Did I miss it - what is her name? Can't just call her 'the parrot'! :biggrin1: I have a hunch she is one lucky girl to have found a home with you! Pretty girl! Tells Nina to 'stop barking'? How funny! Great photos! Hope you will have more stories to share of her. How big is the ball she is throwing and how does she do it?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Anna6 said:


> We ended up buying a 2 1/2 yr old Congo African Grey that needed to be rehomed. "She" is a lot of fun and seems to be settling in well. Nina is OK with her. Not that I put them together or anything. It is pretty much the same as our paprakeets between Nina and the parrot. The parrot was used to a creamey 10 lb dog and Nina is a creamey 7 lb dog. The parrot tells Nina to sit and stop barking. She also throws a ball for Nina to fetch. We hand it back to the parrot. Now if I could just teach her to take Nina out to go potty.


She's lovely! Good luck with her!


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

motherslittlehelper said:


> Did I miss it - what is her name? Can't just call her 'the parrot'! :biggrin1: I have a hunch she is one lucky girl to have found a home with you! Pretty girl! Tells Nina to 'stop barking'? How funny! Great photos! Hope you will have more stories to share of her. How big is the ball she is throwing and how does she do it?


Sorry. Since it is a dog board I did not want to wander off the subject too much. Her name is Cheeky and she is 2 1/2 yrs old. The owner and I really connected and we both felt Cheeky and our family were a good match. I was pretty nervous because parrots pretty much choose you and not the other way around. She right away connected with our 11 DS. She went from living with one parront to a large family with many children. Cheeky is very smart and just picks up sounds and words. She has some diet issues and needs to change to a healthy diet. The girl is a picky eater. Parrots are one of a kind. If you ask her to step up and she doesn't feel like it she says,"Go away!" LOL When she wants to get out of her cage she says,"Lets go!" She hollers when I am gone mama Anna. She calls for DS 11 by name. When I run water in the kitchen she says,"Water!" "I love you!" "Ready bed?" when she wants to go to bed. On and on.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Anna6 said:


> Sorry. Since it is a dog board I did not want to wander off the subject too much. Her name is Cheeky and she is 2 1/2 yrs old. The owner and I really connected and we both felt Cheeky and our family were a good match. I was pretty nervous because parrots pretty much choose you and not the other way around. She right away connected with our 11 DS. She went from living with one parront to a large family with many children. Cheeky is very smart and just picks up sounds and words. She has some diet issues and needs to change to a healthy diet. The girl is a picky eater. Parrots are one of a kind. If you ask her to step up and she doesn't feel like it she says,"Go away!" LOL When she wants to get out of her cage she says,"Lets go!" She hollers when I am gone mama Anna. She calls for DS 11 by name. When I run water in the kitchen she says,"Water!" "I love you!" "Ready bed?" when she wants to go to bed. On and on.


We ahve talked about our birds a number of times on the forum, so feel free! I have a little tiny parrot... A green rumped parrotlet.(actually she's my son's bird). Don't tell HER she's little though! She's totally in charge of THIS household!.

I find the big parrots a bit intimidating with thise strong beaks, but I also think they are very beautiful. And from what I've read, the African Greys are the smartest of the bunch. Hope she "owns" you for many long years!!!


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

OMG! She sounds absolutely delightful! I am sooo jealous! It sounds like her name fits her perfectly! Congratulations!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Oh, Anna, talk about Cheeky as much as you want. I am sure several of us would love to read stories of her. And for those who don't, they don't have to read or they can just go away! ound: She sounds quite brilliant to have learned your names so quickly. I have heard that the African greys are quite intelligent. She sounds like she will be so much fun!


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

krandall said:


> I find the big parrots a bit intimidating with thise strong beaks, but I also think they are very beautiful. And from what I've read, the African Greys are the smartest of the bunch. Hope she "owns" you for many long years!!!


Love the little parrotlets and so many other wonderful birds. It was hard to choose and we also really looked at cockatoos. I just found so many cockatoos that people in this area and even further north put outside or in the garage that I was very concerned about taking one unless it was a bare eyed.

My heart lay with an African Grey but I had been told they could not handle many people and we have eight to ten people home 24/7. the owner of Cheeky felt different and I think she was right. cheeky thrives on all the attention and different people. Normally she is never alone.

I had wanted a timneh originally but this congo spoke to me and it also seemed that way for Cheeky's previous parront. Also DS really wanted an African Grey. I realize he is only 11 but he has been consistent and interested in birds for many years. The idea is for him to take her when he is an adult. I am not sure if I will be able to give her up by then though. She is only 2 1/2 yrs old and can easily live to be 35. I am really working on tweeking her diet so as to make sure her health continuous to be good and for her to be in our family forever just like Nina.


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

dodrop82 said:


> OMG! She sounds absolutely delightful! I am sooo jealous! It sounds like her name fits her perfectly! Congratulations!


I really think you should look for one. If you take a rehome that was loved you will be helping a bird and its previous owner. i know Cheeky's prevous parront felt a real peace after we had talked as she felt it was the best solution for Cheeky. It took me atually much longer to feel that way and not till the last moment I could see it coming together.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

How did you find Cheeky?


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

I'll PM you.


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

Update on Cheeky our African Grey. We have been really enjoying her. As for Nina and Cheeky they seem OK with each other. One time Cheeky was on the ground and Nina got too friendly but Cheeky nipped a bit of Nina's hair. I think from what I have heard from other owners many parrots are the boss over the dog and I think it is that way here too. Ofcourse leaving a dog and parrot un supervised would not be wise but then I do not let Nina alone with my parakeets either. We are in contact with Cheeky's previous owner all the time and has send her updates, pictures and video clips. We are both thrilled at how well Cheeky has transitioned. I wanted to add that because people expressed a concern about a parrot out living its parront. Ours was a rehome and has done really well as have two rehomes that my friend took in that were much older and one from an abusive/neglect setting. There are support boards available to help along the way and we were blessed in that our rehome's previous parront prepared Cheeky and helped us. These birds are way more resilient then they get credit for. I also find them much easier as a pet then a dog as does my friend that has the two parrots and a dog.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Long story short....my SIL thought breeding birds would be a great way to earn extra $$$. This all started because my grandson wanted a parakeet and we have two. Now we have 8 parrots of assorted sizes and two conures. The big birds stay in the basement, so they don't interact with the dogs. The few times that I have taken Kodi in their room, he has been very curious, but that's about it. And he doesn't really care about the parakeets that are upstairs.


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