# Help with Color



## Fore! (Dec 18, 2009)

We're looking at a puppy and hoping someone may be able to give an educated guess as to what color this puppy is (taken at 10 days old) or will be when he's full grown. I know that their coats can dramatically change color... but just wondering if this one would retain much color or get very light.

Also - I'm told the nose pigment continues to come in - but is there a rule of thumb as to what age should the color be fully in? 

Thanks for the help!


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## [email protected] (Aug 5, 2009)

Not sure what color her might be but you can go to this website and maybe you can find his color:http://www.mts.net/~mckay55/colours1.html

About the nose pigment, I think its should still be changing color. When my first Havs had puppies, each puppy nose pigment stop at different times. But by the time they are fully running and walking it should be a full color.

Good Luck


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

No idea but that is one sweet, sweet baby!!! How could you resist???


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

I don't have a good guess what you would call him now, but the breeder should know. The breeder should also be able to give you some idea where the color could go from here depending on the parents. The thing about Havanese is their colors can change all thoughout their lives, so there is a real good chance that what you see now is not the color he will be 6 months from now. 

The best choice is go for health first, personality second, and color last...because the color will change! Good luck finding the perfect pup!


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## imamurph (Apr 15, 2008)

Is this yours?


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

oh how cute, I love sable puppies. Christy is right, your breeder should be able to help you if he will keep any of his color or not. Is this the first litter from his parent's? Maybe seeing other puppies from previous breeding's will help. Most sable puppies loose all their coloring and keep some black on the ears but some do hold a some color but it is usually lighter.

My Riley is a red sable, you can see how much he has changed and he has kept some of his red just not as dark as when he was born.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

Looks like a gold sable to me- yes he will probably lighten to a light cream color- he's cute!


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Looks like a sable with Irish pied markings. Probably will fade though.


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## karin117 (Mar 29, 2008)

Yes, the havanese can go thru huge colour changes...and that is the why you never should pick your puppy from colour...temper and personality to fit your family is numer one...and that the litter if from healthy lines with helth tested parents, a breeder you trust and lines that are ok.

I do not know if you have visited this site, it is fantastic and show A LOT of different colours and the type of changes they can go thru.
http://www.mts.net/~mckay55/colours12.html

About the pigmentation, yes, if it continue to come in for several weeks....here it is important to look at the pigmentation on both the parents and in the lines....Many light dogs can have "snow nose" they loos a lot of pigmentation in the nose and it start to turn pink in the middle...Sometimes it is like that all around, sometimes it get better in the summer....


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

My Freddie has snow nose all year round. Bella does too. It's just a lighter shade. They both had black noses as pups. They started changing in the winter and then would go back to black in the summer. One day they didn't turn back. Scudders stayed a solid black. Here's a close up of Fred where you can see the lighter shades in his nose.


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## karin117 (Mar 29, 2008)

Your Freddy is pretty

AND snownose is only of intrestest out of the estetic wiew, and for show and breeding of course....


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I've never heard of snow nose but it's very cute!


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## Fore! (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanks all! He's not ours _yet_... we're still trying to decide. We love "color" though, and originally we were hoping for a black puppy. (after looking at health and temp first!) Really they're all beautiful so I'm sure we can't go wrong!


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

My Murphy was a red sable. All the places that he was a deep mahogany brown are now a very light caramel color, except for his face. His face was very dark and is now totally white. He has kept the grey tipping on his ears.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Definitely a sable with Irish Pied markings. My guess from here is a red sable.

The pigment will probably be complete by 10 weeks, but every family is different. It depends on how strong the pigment is in both parents and how early each line fills in respectively.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I have read that you can get an indication of the adult color by the light color around the eyes(closest to the actual eyeball). I see on Riley's pix that as a puppy he has light colored rings around his eyes that he currently has as his adult color. 

After viewing lots of puppy pix over the last couple of years,I think it may have some real truth to it.

If you are looking for a highly colored pup,you may want to avoid the sables all together as they seem to all lighten alot and then recapture some color later,but never like they were as puppies.

With havanese you never quite know. My boy hasn't changed at all....blacks can silver...I think? a white is always a white?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Julie said:


> With havanese you never quite know. My boy hasn't changed at all....blacks can silver...I think? a white is always a white?


Unless they carry the belton gene, in which case, you end up with a lot of black mixed with the white!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Bailey had deep, rich sable coloring as a puppy but he's grown up to be gray and white basically. I've loved him in each and every coloration and will continue to do so no matter what the future holds. Milo, OTOH started out a tri color irish pied puppy and even with his shave down has retained almost all his color (other than his face, which was very dark).

Funny thing is, I had color preferences before I got Milo and I would never have chosen him from his early photos, but the moment I saw him I knew he was my boy, and was I ever right. He's a lover. The world at large loves Milo.


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## Gableshavs (Jun 19, 2007)

Colors change throughout their early years. I've seen sable puppies turn more cream and then get darker again. One friend with silver sables has had this happen frequently. I think it makes this breed more interesting. For me the temperament and structure are what I would look for when picking out a puppy. 

Happy New Year from the gang here in Miami


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I'll attach photos of Murphy as a puppy and recently, you'll see the changes in his coloring. I wish I could accurately describe it but I don't know how other than to say it seems to have lightened and he has more white hair.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Oh Ann, he's as gorgeous as ever.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Thanks Geri, I hope it helps them choose a puppy. I never even thought about colors and just fell in love. (I'm goofy that way!) The strange thing is that I've ended up with 3 completely different looking doggies!!!


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## Fore! (Dec 18, 2009)

Ann - thanks so much for posting the pictures, it was very helpful. Murphy certainly is an handsome guy!
Brad


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Brad - Where are you located?


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Ann, Gorgeous pictures of Murphy! He's a handsome boy!


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## Wildflower (Dec 6, 2009)

We are getting a puppy in 5 weeks. I thought this was interesting -- first photo is photo of the puppies at 1 day old and next photo is puppies at 3 weeks. Look at the coloring of the white one and how much she changed in 20 days! Color became much lighter and pink nose is completely black now. 

The other puppies have lightened up as well but the change is amazing in the female.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Wow, that's incredible! They are so cute. I bet she will lighten up a lot more by 8-10 weeks old! I like the darker dogs. Not having to worry about tear stains and muddy paws is a plus. I first look at health, sex, temperament, then color.


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## Fore! (Dec 18, 2009)

Scooter's Family said:


> Brad - Where are you located?


We're in MA


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Fore! said:


> We're in MA


Ohhh what part of MA? I hope you and your new puppy will join us in our play dates.

I also posted this picture of Riley on FB last night, you can see more or his red coloring. The picture does make it look a little darker than it really is. Riley's dad came from the Netherlands and I really think a lot of the lines over there keep some color better.


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## Fore! (Dec 18, 2009)

We're about 45 minutes southwest of Boston. We'd love to attend play dates in the future - thanks for inviting us!

So, out of curiosity, what happens to the color if you were to keep the dog in a puppy cut? I guess I mean does the color go all the way "through"?

Brad


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Since I just had both boys shaved down you can see that in our case the color does indeed go down to the skin.


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## Fore! (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanks, Geri - the pictures are helpful and SO cute!

Brad


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## imamurph (Apr 15, 2008)

When Sophie was a puppy she was back and tan..now she is black and silvery/white.

When I got Gabriel I kept looking at his roots to see if his color was changing...


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Fore! said:


> We're about 45 minutes southwest of Boston. We'd love to attend play dates in the future - thanks for inviting us!
> 
> So, out of curiosity, what happens to the color if you were to keep the dog in a puppy cut? I guess I mean does the color go all the way "through"?
> 
> Brad


I am about 30 min. north of Boston, we usually have at least 2 playdates a year that get posted on the forum so be sure to watch for them.

You can usually tell by looking at the roots as the coat is growing out what color they will be in a puppy cut. Riley had lots of black tipping that got cut off when we cut him down but his red went to the roots. He is always changing, lighter in the summer then darkens up a little more in the winter months.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Fore! said:


> We're about 45 minutes southwest of Boston. We'd love to attend play dates in the future - thanks for inviting us!
> 
> So, out of curiosity, what happens to the color if you were to keep the dog in a puppy cut? I guess I mean does the color go all the way "through"?
> 
> Brad


Hi Brad, you must be close to me, then... We're in Holliston.

For the dogs that change color (most of them, it seems!!!<g>) the puppy color is on the tips. If you give them a puppy cut, they lose it. My Kodi is a Belton, which means that although his body looks all white now, he has small black spots that were visible on his skin, even as a tiny pup. Now, at 8 months, you can see probably about an inch of dark hair at the roots over these black spots. If I were to give him a puppy cut, he'd probably look sort of dalmation-y. Beltons that are kept long end up with black stripes in their coats. Hav coat colors are amazing!!!

Here's a picture that shows his Belton marks growing in. You can see that the longer part of the hair is still all white.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi Brad, we are west of Boston. Jasper was a sable and white puppy he is now mostly white a little gray on his ears and through his back. We keep him in a puppy cut and is mostly a white a dog...the longer he gets the more color he gets back.


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

In the picture he looks very close to my girl Merlot.

She is a Red Sable
Here is a picture of her when she was 2 weeks old










Here she is at 8 weeks old









And here she is today at 7 months. She is much lighter , however she is now getting some really dark red that is growing in. So it is really hard to say what she will be, but I also have watch these dogs change colors all their lives. I do agree that temperament and health should be a first priority over color.


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## gabdyl (Jun 16, 2008)

Peanut was a tricolored sable parti, tho not as dark as your pup, and he was completely creamed out by 1yr.


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## Fore! (Dec 18, 2009)

Heather, Merlot is a real beauty! Thanks for the pictures - they're great to compare.

We're really enjoying seeing everyone's pictures - and realizing that all of the colors wonderful! Thank you!


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Heather, Merlot looks lovely! Pardon me for asking, but is that photo "re-touched" at all? The color is so vibrant!


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

Fore! said:


> Heather, Merlot is a real beauty! Thanks for the pictures - they're great to compare.
> 
> We're really enjoying seeing everyone's pictures - and realizing that all of the colors wonderful! Thank you!


You are welcome and I wish you luck in your new adventure with your new Havanese baby 



good buddy said:


> Heather, Merlot looks lovely! Pardon me for asking, but is that photo "re-touched" at all? The color is so vibrant!


Christy,
All 3 pictures are untouched, that is the way that Merlot looks. Personally I love her colors  I love Shiraz's colors too, but it is so hard to get her true color on film.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

CacheHavs said:


> Christy,
> All 3 pictures are untouched, that is the way that Merlot looks. Personally I love her colors  I love Shiraz's colors too, but it is so hard to get her true color on film.


I love her color too! I haven't seen many reds hold such rich color!


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

good buddy said:


> I love her color too! I haven't seen many reds hold such rich color!


I haven't either, and I didn't think she would hold hers as she was going lighter, but if you look at her most recent picture you can see some of the really dark red that is coming in on the top of her back as well as near the base of her tail. So I am hoping that she will continue to darken rather than lighten, but I love her just the same


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

I am interested in the Belton gene/factor. How do you know if your puppy has this? Can you tell at 6 weeks? Thanks flynn


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Looks like a red sable with brindle ears to me! The red should lighten up but the brindle on the ears will likely stay dark. Very cute puppy!!


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

Hi Flynn-
I think 6 weeks may be a bit early to see a def belton pattern, but what to look for is black spots on the pink skin. It's much easier to see when they are wet-


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