# What would you do?



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Havanna is now 6 months old. For several weeks, she has been losing her baby teeth. I have found two in our house. Having read many threads on the Forum about Havanese having a difficulty time losing all their baby teeth, I was worried because I wasn't sure what to look for. We are currently taking obedience classes, so I asked the trainer Tuesday night about Havanna's baby teeth. The trainer has 32 years experience training dogs, raised Shelties for 15 years, and is an AKC judge. She looked at Havanna's teeth and said her canines needed to be removed. Her adult ones are almost all the way in and her babies are still present and not loose at all. I phoned the vet the next day and scheduled an appointment to have Havanna's canines removed (we had had a previous discussion about Havanese having a difficult time losing their baby teeth; my vet has no experience with Havanese). I asked that they also remove the hair in her ears while they had her sedated. I took Havanna into the vet at 8am this morning and left her. At 4:05pm, they called and said she was ready. They informed me that they hadn't taken out her canines; the vet felt that they would come out on their own when the adult ones were all the way in. He told me to wait until she was 7 months old, then he'd take them out if they were still in her mouth.  I was livid. AND they informed me that this visit would cost me $40, as they'd gone ahead and sedated her and plucked the hair from her ears. :jaw: Am I wrong to be so angry? Would you wait the extra month or would you get a new vet?

Michelle


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## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

I'd either trust the vet, or if I were in any way skeptical about his decisions, I'd find a new one.

My Molly had the same situation, so when we had her spayed (at 7 months) the vet removed the baby teeth that weren't coming out on their own.

My inclination is to feel that the vet acted in your pup's best interest...I'd rather have a vet who didn't perform a procedure that he felt is not necessary. $40 is what I pay for each visit.


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

I think I would find a new vet because he had not assessed her teeth prior to sedation. I also think your charge is very cheap--like an office visit so maybe not so bad.

Will Havanna be spayed? Baby tooth extraction often occurs with the spay/neutering.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Well if you made the appt to have them pulled and the vet put her under and did not pull them, he shouldn't have charged you the $40. I wouldn't have paid the $40 since they did not do what I had asked. Unless the vet determined that it would have caused more harm then good to have them pulled. Which I can't see.


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## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

I'm sorry, I didn't make myself very clear.  The vet decided when he looked at her teeth not to pull any; he only sedated her to pluck the hair from her ears. The $40 was really irrelevant...it was the fact he sedated her JUST TO PLUCK THE HAIR that made me angry.

Michelle


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I have read on this forum where quite a few people have had teeth extracted,but I never did with Quincy at all.He lost his teeth and I would find them occasionally. Maybe you just had read so much about it here that you thought it necessary? IDK---but I would believe your vet. Mine would also not remove teeth he felt was unnecessary to remove and I'd respect him for that.....but that's me.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Our posts crossed------oh yes,I can not imagine being sedated for ear hair removal..Is it possible he sedated her to get a better look at her teeth that he couldn't see otherwise?


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

At the very least he should have called you to inform you that in his opinion the teeth didn't need removed and to ask you if you wanted to proceed with the ear hair removal. Unless of course he came to that opinion AFTER she was sedated. By sedation do you mean anesthetic? If so that is very cheap.

Still, I really don't understand the big difference between removing teeth at 6 mo vs 7 mo. Unless he wanted the adult teeth to be fully in before removing the baby teeth?

Sorry, I am talking in circles. I guess I'm kind of confused? Did he or did he not put her under an anesthetic for hair removal? If he did I'd be very angry and get a new vet.

Tessa had to have her canines and a molar removed when she was spayed. There was no question they needed to be removed since her adult teeth had been in for quite a while and she had a double row. she looked like a shark, lol!

P.S. just noticed she was there for eight hours? wow, seems kind of long for ear hair removal. Something just seems off about this. Tessa's spay took less time than this!


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

I would be REALLY upset if my vet put my dog under anethesia for hair removal from the ears!!! Even if it was only $40, I'd be livid. How stupid is that?


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

It's hard to say where the communication failed but I would never want my dog sedated unnecessarily and would be very upset if this happened to any of mine. I think it would be wise for you to request a call from the Dr. to disuss it then make your mind up if you want to switch or not. Normally teeth that are retained are removed when the dog is put under for being spayed or neutered. It sounds like some lack of communication somewhere along the way about wanting sedation for the hair to be plucked from the ears???? It's important to have a good relationship with the Dr. AND THE STAFF and the staff with the Dr. It's a whole package deal to work effectively. I hope you get the answers you want and get it straightned out.


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## Jacklyn Weeks (Dec 23, 2007)

Norah was spayed at 5 months and she had her canines taken out then. Nick was spayed at 4 months but all his baby teeth fell out naturally. I would get a second opinion, but not be hesitant to do it earlier rather than later.


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## michi715 (Apr 8, 2008)

I think I'd be concerned about them sedating the pup for hair removal and ask if that is their usual practice. If so, I don't think I would bring him back for that procedure. I do agree, though, that they should have called to tell you what they were and weren't going to do before just going ahead with it. I would also be very frustrated!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

For $40, it doesn't sound like it was anesthesia, but I'm curious to know what kind of sedation was used.

If this happened to me, I'd chalk it up to a lack of communication this time around and make yourself very clear the next time you take Havanna in for anything. I have one veterinarian that listens to me for everything, but I don't go there often anymore because I have some other minor problems with them and they are farther away. My main vet clinic staff is VERY bad at listening to me. They prefer to do things the way they do systematically for all of their clients. I have to make sure I say things a couple of times when it is important to me so they know, and to two different technicians. I also pass on to the veterinarian exactly what I wanted (IV, no shaving leg, etc.) so the information has definitely been heard. (The veterinarians all listen and agree with me. It's the techs that like to do things their way.) It has all worked out just fine so far, but I know one of the technicians gets annoyed when I go in there. That's okay with me though. I pay plenty of money to that place (nearly weekly lately!) to let her keep her job. 

You are the client, but you also need to make sure they know that communication is important to you. I'd call and ask if you can speak to the veterinarian or if you can leave a message on his/her voicemail. Then be very clear about what it is that concerned you and try to leave your emotions out of it. ("I realize that sedation is necessary for teeth removal, but I had been forewarned about breed sensitivity and don't want to subject Havanna to any unnecessary sedation. Sedating for ear hair removal seemed extreme and I would have liked to have the option to tell you that I would not have given permission for that. Can we make sure I get called in the future if you and your staff are going to change the procedure after I leave?" )They will probably make a note in Havanna's chart so they don't forget in the future.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

I can't believe he sedated her to pluck her ears. I did Bogarts and Brandos myself. It was so easy. I'd make sure in the future that you tell your vet not to sedate your dog without your permission. Why is the vet plucking the ears anyway. Shouldn't that be done by a groomer?


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## EstrellaVila (Nov 30, 2007)

I think its odd they kept her for eight hours in order to sedate her to pull out ear hair. Why didnt the vet tell you when you dropped her off/during a prelim visit that you guys could wait? And I don't like the idea of sedation for ear hair. Seems a bit much. If you see them again, you should talk to them about this. It is good they held off on what they thought was a procedure that could wait, but the sedation thing for ear hair makes me feel weird about the vet.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Well I for one, would have felt very frustrated not to have at least received a phone call so that you could have made the decision for yourself. Since I don't think you've got a show dog, the bite isn't all that critical, but still, this breed does have a tendency to retain their teeth and since you'd already agreed to it and had the dog sedated, I'm really at a loss to understand why at the last minute the vet changed his mind. It will all work out in the end if the teeth do fall out by themselves, but if not, you'll still have to have the procedure done. I agree with everyone else to make sure you have very clear communication next time and to have the teeth taken care of when you do the spay/neuter.

Now all that said...WHERE are some more pictures of your adorable baby? LOL


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

1. I don't understand 'at all' why they would sedate to pull ear hair.
2. Since they did sedate, why not go ahead and pull the teeth -- why wait 4 more weeks and sedate again!!
3. Why keep her that long?
I do think in order for you to feel good about your vet (and that's important to me) I would call and just tell them you need your concerns addressed. I think that will help both of you to know what to expect in the future -- to make things clear on what you want and them on what will be done...like a phone call.


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## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Lisa, LOL, this is for you. I'm not very good with the camera, though! The pictures are of Havanna and her daddy playing; Havanna waiting in her car seat while daddy gets his Starbucks; and Havanna after a long day of playing.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Your Havanna could be my Dasher's twin! Cute pics. Dasher just has the white go all the way up his left leg!

Amanda


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Havaone - thanks for these fabulous pictures. And you are right Amanda - she does look like Dasher's twin. My favorite is the last one where she's all zonked out.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Dasher said, "Mama, it's MY right leg that is white." ound:


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

"it was the fact he sedated her JUST TO PLUCK THE HAIR that made me angry."

This would have bothered me also. If I liked this vet alot I would talk to him about this, letting him know he did not do as you had requested. $40 does seem cheap for any type of sedation. If you question his judgement I'd find another vet.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I'd be very upset about this too. Anytime anyone, pet or human, is put under sedation (anesthesia, right?), there is an effect on the body. Some dogs go through the process of eliminating the medication very easily, others have ill effects. I would be terribly upset at having it done for no good reason, only to have to repeat it in a month's time!! 

You can pluck the hair out of the ear, while the dog is lying right by your side, in your lap or standing on a table and the dog won't even know you're doing it. It's that painless and easy! I just dont' get that they did it under sedation. Please! Now why would the vet NOT check the teeth before going through with the procedure? Dumb, if you ask me,... lack of communication or not. 

Btw, your Havanna is really pretty!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Dale- Dasher is saying Mama you better learn the difference between left and right!


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## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Well, I took Havanna to another vet this morning. She's not been eating, acting a little lethargic and threw up this morning. She had a low-grade fever and is borderline dehydrated. The vet says maybe a stomach virus and has put her on antibiotics and gave me a bland dog food to give Havanna (which she gobbled down when I gave it to her - thank goodness!). I have to watch her for the next 24 hours, though, because the vet was really concerned about the dehydration. While I was there, I asked this vet about Havanna's teeth. She (the vet) said her baby canines are not loose at all, and they'll probably need to be removed when Havanna gets better. I told her about the incident with the first vet, and she said she really didn't know why he just didn't pull the teeth. She said it's a fairly benign procedure, and since he put Havanna under anyway... Needless to say, I've switched vets!

Michelle


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Michelle - sorry to hear that Havanna isn't feeling well - glad that your vet is being super careful with the dehydration. What a bummer about the teeth - at least you've found a new vet!


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I hope Havannna gets to feeling better soon. I wonder if the teeth could be causing her to feel bad. Maybe sit in the floor with her and hold her water bowl to drink. I know, that is spoiling, but right now it's important for her to drink and sometimes that works. Cicero also loves ice and I put crushed ice in his bowl and he will eat it. Let us know how Havanna feels later.


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## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Dale, I will do anything to get Havanna to drink! She loves ice, too, so I've been feeding her small pieces all day. Someone suggested putting bouillon (sp?) in her water, but that didn't work. If anyone knows how to lead a puppy to water AND make it drink, I'd appreciate the advice!!

Michelle


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

Hello Michelle,

Perhaps you can soak some kibbles in water and see if she'll eat that? That'll increase her liquid intake, I think. Hope she feels better soon!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Glad to hear you went to a new vet. Good old fashion chicken noodle soup always does the trick with my dogs. Good luck.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Good news is, you've changed vets. Too bad about Havanna feeling so badly though.  Hope it clears up soon, whatever it is that's bothering her. Did the vet mention what she'd if things weren't better soon?

((hugs))


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

Try to give her pedialyte or some chicken broth. They will help with dehydration and might peak her interest since they are tasty.


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## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions. Havanna did really well yesterday; she seemed to be drinking quite a bit of water. She became really ill again this morning, though. She wouldn't eat, threw up and had some diarrhea. Back to the vet we went. They took an x-ray and ran some blood work, all of which looked normal (TG!!). However, she's still running a low fever and was mildly dehydrated. They gave her an IV infusion and sent us home with more medicine (that makes three we're giving her now). The vet says we're probably dealing with a stomach virus she isn't getting well from very quickly. If she isn't better by Monday, though, they're going to run a more extensive test (a dye test to see if there is an obstruction that wasn't seen in the x-ray). On a brighter note, I do like this veterinary clinic better (there are actually 5 vets there, and they have two other Havanese at patients). The vet today held Havanna and rocked her like a baby while the IV was infusing. 

Michelle


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Michelle,

So sorry to hear Havanna is not feeling well.

Sissy doesn't eat the ice if it falls on the floor from the ice machine but if we are outside and I give her some out of my glass (when I am done with it...lolololo) - she loves it. Go figure.

I was wondering about maybe freezing the bouillon.

Hugs and kisses from Sissy and me.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I was wondering about Havanna this morning. How is she doing?


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Oh, my. I just read this about Havana's stomach problem. I, too, hope all is well today.


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## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks, ladies. Havanna seems to be better today; she hasn't thrown up since Thursday. And she's eating her kibble as I type this, which is the first time she's eaten it in a couple of days. She's really had me worried this week, but I think she's on the mend now!

Michelle


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## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

Glad to hear that Havanna is feeling better.


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