# Holding Poo



## JulieB (Jun 16, 2016)

I am having an issue with Bodie. He's 7 months old now. He was perfectly potty trained until he got a little tummy issue and pooped in the house overnight. Now he's holding his poo and going during the night. I walk him twice a day 20-30 min each walk, his last meal is 6:00 pm. The last time I take him out at night is around 10:30. I am going to start putting him in his crate again during the night. I know it will be hard and him and me as he is used to sleeping in our room and in our bed, but I don't know what else to do. Has anyone else had this issue with their Hav?


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Ricky evacuates his bowels anywhere from 2 to 4 times a day, depending on - how active he's been, what he has been eating, where he is, the weather (he isn't a fan of rain), and other factors. We take him out for a 20 minute walk around 7:30 pm and he will poop om the walk about 50% of the time. He then checks out for the night when we get back by curling up in his day bed in our library while we watch TV, read, or work on our computers. :smash: I put him to bed in his crate in our bedroom around 10 pm when I go to bed. I ALWAYS give Ricky a bedtime cookie (a slice of dehydrated banana) after he enthusiastically runs into his crate (and Ricky is eternally thankful to Tia Karen for this tip). He sleeps quietly all night in his crate but he knows we are nearby because he can hear our "night noises" and occasional goings. We get him up about 6:30 am and take him outside immediately and he will usually poop about 50% of the time depending on what happened yesterday.

I prefer that Ricky sleep in a crate at night, and for that matter Ricky prefers it too. I don't want him prowling around the house while we sleep, too many things to get into mischief. I don't want to step on him in the semi-dark if I need to get up in the night.

I would put Bodie's crate in my bedroom and insist he sleep there at night. I would give him a small bedtime cookie. He might complain the first couple of nights, but that will soon stop. I have confidence that his nighttime pooping will stop too. It's like hitting the "reset" button on your computer.

Well, it is near 6:30 am and time to get Ricky up. We didn't take Ricky out for his walk last night because the wind was blowing hard and the windchill had to be in the 20's. Ricky had a piece of bully stick around 6pm yesterday for TGIF and it works like a mild laxative on him. There is a 100% chance that Ricky will poop this morning. He has a BIG day ahead of him. :wink: 

Ricky's Popi

UPDATE: I was 100% correct in predicting that there was a 100% chance of Ricky pooping first thing this morning. :thumb:


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## JulieB (Jun 16, 2016)

Thanks for the info. We will reintroduce the crate tonight. Also going to add a third walk around 7:00 pm. Fingers crossed!!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

JulieB said:


> Thanks for the info. We will reintroduce the crate tonight. Also going to add a third walk around 7:00 pm. Fingers crossed!!


And, Ricky gets a cookie when he poops outside (that's the only place he does poop so he can get that cookie). Good luck.

Ricky's Popi


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## Chasing Mayzie (Aug 16, 2016)

I used to have a Cavalier who would absolutely not poop outside if it was raining. I posted a question about this on my fancy AOL message boards (yes, this was the 1990's) and people who were into dog shows suggested I gently insert a matchstick into his rectum (not very far and no, don't light it). I guess it is a disqualification for the dog to poo in the ring, so they learned ways to make them go beforehand. I know this sounds crazy, but it works like a charm. 

Recently we had a 3-day streak of raining and Mayzie wouldn't poop outside, so I used the trusty old matchstick and again, it worked like a charm. 

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Maybe you can use the matchstick to make him get back on schedule.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Chasing Mayzie said:


> I used to have a Cavalier who would absolutely not poop outside if it was raining. I posted a question about this on my fancy AOL message boards (yes, this was the 1990's) and people who were into dog shows suggested I gently insert a matchstick into his rectum (not very far and no, don't light it). I guess it is a disqualification for the dog to poo in the ring, so they learned ways to make them go beforehand. I know this sounds crazy, but it works like a charm.
> 
> Recently we had a 3-day streak of raining and Mayzie wouldn't poop outside, so I used the trusty old matchstick and again, it worked like a charm.
> 
> Desperate times call for desperate measures. Maybe you can use the matchstick to make him get back on schedule.


 you can't be serious? For God's sake , if you have this problem , provide an indoor option.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> you can't be serious? For God's sake , if you have this problem , provide an indoor option.


Some people DO do it, Dave. It is NOT an NQ in conformation, and it is NEVER a "DQ" in any sport... the only thing that leads to a "Disqualification" in any sport is a dog attacking another dog or a person.

HOWEVER it is CERTAINLY not something Ii would EVER do, or suggest. Train your dog where and when pottying is appropriate. IMO a dog who is eliminating where they shouldn't is a people problem, not a dog problem, unless the dog is sick and can't help it. Even then, I have to say, the few times Kodi has been sick, he has gotten himself outside EVERY time. He even vomits in the litter box, and I never taught him that! 

In the case of the OP, this is a puppy, who is still learning. He needs to be taught, not have things stuck up his butt.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

it's obvious people do this. It 's ABUSE .


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## JulieB (Jun 16, 2016)

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm crating him at night and that seems to be working. I think he needed a reset so to speak. I will keep him in the crate during the night for the time being. Probably shouldn't have stopped using it. Live and learn!


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## Chasing Mayzie (Aug 16, 2016)

This makes me laugh because I remember how shocked I was when I first heard these people say it. You do WHAT? :surprise: I remember wonder why a matchstick? But they swore by it, and obviously you don't shove the whole thing all the way up there, just the little tip. Your reaction is so visceral that I think you must misunderstand and be imagining shoving an entire matchstick up there.

ETA: So y'all don't think I'm crazy, do a quick Google. http://www.askthedogguy.com/match-to-produce-dog-poop/


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## Lisa T. (Feb 5, 2015)

I'm surprised you don't get bit


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Chasing Mayzie said:


> This makes me laugh because I remember how shocked I was when I first heard these people say it. You do WHAT? :surprise: I remember wonder why a matchstick? But they swore by it, and obviously you don't shove the whole thing all the way up there, just the little tip. Your reaction is so visceral that I think you must misunderstand and be imagining shoving an entire matchstick up there.
> 
> ETA: So y'all don't think I'm crazy, do a quick Google. How to Get a Dog to Poop - You Can't Be Serious!


It works because the sulphur in the match head is irritating.

I know they do it, and I am pretty sure that Dave believes you too, but HE'S right, that just because some people do it, doesn't make it right. They do all SORTS of things to show dogs that I certainly wouldn't consider doing.


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## Chasing Mayzie (Aug 16, 2016)

*Skinning cats*



krandall said:


> It works because the sulphur in the match head is irritating.
> 
> I know they do it, and I am pretty sure that Dave believes you too, but HE'S right, that just because some people do it, doesn't make it right. They do all SORTS of things to show dogs that I certainly wouldn't consider doing.


How funny, we always did it the other way around. I can attest that it will work even without putting the sulfur end in first!

There's more than one way to skin a cat, Dave. This is just another tool to tuck in the back of one's mind to pull out when appropriate. And though I don't think anyone should find themselves going through an entire matchbook in a year or even three, it's potentially useful. This holding potty issue does arise from time to time, and it would be especially handy for people who don't have a yard and are relying on walks to get the dog pottied.

I certainly don't consider it abusive. I would never do anything that hurt Mayzie. It isn't punishment, If anything, it's negative reinforcement (i.e., the irritant is removed when the good behavior - poop - occurs), but I don't even think it's that. I think it's like tickling their nose with a feather to teach them to sneeze on command. It doesn't hurt them physically and it doesn't cause them to feel fear or anything. Just another tool in the training box.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

you still think it's funny.. It's abusive to let your dog go that long without giving it an alternative way to relieve itself .if she is reluctant to go outside in bad weather you need an indoor option. It is not healthy for them to hold it that long . People are amazing sometimes. They expect their pet to not eliminate in the house and yet they don't give them a chance for an alternative. How would you like this to be done to you? Yes I get visceral when I see animals abused. Your dog is trying not to eliminate in the house and you are not trying to help her out. How sad .Emotional and physical abuse and you can't even see it .


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

JulieB said:


> I am having an issue with Bodie. He's 7 months old now. He was perfectly potty trained until he got a little tummy issue and pooped in the house overnight. Now he's holding his poo and going during the night. I walk him twice a day 20-30 min each walk, his last meal is 6:00 pm. The last time I take him out at night is around 10:30. I am going to start putting him in his crate again during the night. I know it will be hard and him and me as he is used to sleeping in our room and in our bed, but I don't know what else to do. Has anyone else had this issue with their Hav?


Bodie is starting the teenage period, and it's not uncommon for potty trained dogs to regress as teenagers. This means you may need to go back to the basics with him similar to when you first brought him home, such as taking him out more frequently on a leash and guiding him to the place where he should do his business and then throwing a verbal party and give an extra special treat when he goes. Good luck! 

P.S. An effective technique to get your dog to poo is exercise, especially running. So you may want to ensure Bodie gets in a run in the evening to encourage defecation.


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## Chasing Mayzie (Aug 16, 2016)

davetgabby said:


> you still think it's funny.. It's abusive to let your dog go that long without giving it an alternative way to relieve itself .if she is reluctant to go outside in bad weather you need an indoor option. It is not healthy for them to hold it that long . People are amazing sometimes. They expect their pet to not eliminate in the house and yet they don't give them a chance for an alternative. How would you like this to be done to you? Yes I get visceral when I see animals abused. Your dog is trying not to eliminate in the house and you are not trying to help her out. How sad .Emotional and physical abuse and you can't even see it .


Dave, you have broadened this discussion substantially. I understood you to be saying that using a matchstick to trigger elimination is abusive. That's one discussion. But now I hear you saying the abuse is in not giving the dog an indoor potty option when the dog refuses to potty outside because of the weather. I disagree with you on both levels.

As to the first, again, the matchstick trick is recommended by breeders and veterinarians all over the place. I won't Google it for you because you have probably already done that. If it doesn't physically hurt, isn't scary, and it uses the animal's own natural and healthy reflexes to respond appropriately (and the animal is praised for such response), there's just no abuse. To me it is no different than using glycerin suppositories for a human who is constipated or to drink some "magic cleanse" concoction.

As to the second, there are reasons some people choose to provide an indoor potty option (a litter box or such) and there are reasons other people (like myself) train a dog to potty outside only. I think both are valid options, and neither is abusive. You are right that I expect Mayzie not to potty in the house, and I provide no alternatives for when it's raining and she doesn't want to go outside because she gets wet. HOWEVER, I also provide her a ridiculous number of opportunities to potty outside, and she is not punished for accidents. When it is raining, I am outside there with her getting rained on. When she holds in her poo and looks at me pitifully like "OMG can I please go in the house", I promise I am looking right back at her just as pitifully and asking her the same question. And when she finally goes, she gets a ticker-tape parade. There is no abuse in insisting a dog potty outside.

I would normally ignore a question like "how would you like this to be done to you" because to me, it is so patently obvious that humans and dogs don't have the same lifestyle. However, honestly, I can answer this question: It would be fine with me. If for some reason I couldn't poop - whether it's because I am a nervous pooper and people are watching me or whether it's because I am constipated - yes, I would very much want the doctor to help me along. If he wants to use an enema made of saline or an enema made of milk and molasses or if he wants to use a matchstick, so be it. I'm grateful for the relief.

ETA: And don't worry about Mayzie. I have only opted to use this for her one time. And don't worry about Bandit my Cavalier. He lived 10 very spoiled years even though we used the matchstick probably 10 times in his very finicky life. No sane person would think they were abused.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

give me the names of two vets that recommend this procedure. Since you think I am too "visceral" I will get the opinion of a professional and get back to you on this.


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## Chasing Mayzie (Aug 16, 2016)

Dave, I know that in this technological age, people are prone to get all feisty on the internet. I am not like that. I like the articles you post, and I don't know how or why these issues (matchstick and no indoor potty option) struck a nerve with you, but I honestly am glad to hear your POV. 

No, I don't know any vets personally who have told me about the matchstick procedure, and do you really think I'm going to just start calling vets..."hey, there's this guy on the internet who wants your name and number..".  I do know the breeder of Bijou poodles recommends it, and she has (or at one time had) something like 3 of the top 10 poodles in Canada. And it has been discussed on this forum before, so some of our colleagues here have used it too. 

I don't consider "visceral" an insult. I think it's kind of nice that you respond so strongly to something you categorize as abuse. But I promise you don't need to worry about Mayzie. She's ok.

As for the OP, this is obviously something you should discuss with your vet before you use it since there are opposing opinions on it. I hope you'll take it for what it's worth, do your own research, and find an answer for your reluctant pooping puppy.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I think this discussion has gotten way off topic to what the OP was asking about with her dog. Her dog had tummy issues and was pooping during the night BUT he is pooping and does not need any help doing so. My dog had a GI bug a couple weeks ago where she was pooping 2 or 3 times during the night for several days. She told me she needed to go out and I took her. I don't know why the poop had to come during the night but it just did. After a vet visit, bland diet for awhile, and a course of antibiotics she is back to normal. No more during the night potty trips and a normal elimination schedule. This little guy maybe just needed a little while for his system to settle down. Crating at night probably isn't a bad idea either, at least for now.


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## Lisa T. (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi Julie..:..How's Bodie feeing today?


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

If I keep Tux on his regular schedule of Primal raw nuggets and goat milk, he poops about 4 teeny weenie little oblong balls (1/2" long) usually once a day, first thing in the morning. The poop is really firm. The reason for this is there is no waste in his diet. I feed him one nugget about 7 AM after he goes outside. He gets another at 9:30 AM, one for dinner at 3:30, and bedtime snack (1/2 nugget at 7 PM. He gets about 2 TBLSP of goat milk each meal (his dessert). He has never had any digestive issues and I am grateful for only one regular poop a day. If I give him a cow tail for a chew, he will have a large bowel movement that is obviously the chew due to the lighter color and size. Obviously it is mostly waste. Primal suggests larger amounts of their regular nuggets fed twice a day once the dog obtains a year of age. 

I know this doesn't address your issue, but thought if you want to reduce the amount of pooping, this might help. Less, and smaller poop, means less urgency.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Molly120213 said:


> I think this discussion has gotten way off topic to what the OP was asking about with her dog. Her dog had tummy issues and was pooping during the night BUT he is pooping and does not need any help doing so. My dog had a GI bug a couple weeks ago where she was pooping 2 or 3 times during the night for several days. She told me she needed to go out and I took her. I don't know why the poop had to come during the night but it just did. After a vet visit, bland diet for awhile, and a course of antibiotics she is back to normal. No more during the night potty trips and a normal elimination schedule. This little guy maybe just needed a little while for his system to settle down. Crating at night probably isn't a bad idea either, at least for now.


That happens to me every once in a while too.  Sometimes you've just gotta go!


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## JulieB (Jun 16, 2016)

He's his happy self! Full of energy and playful. We are crating him at night and it seems to be working. I took a fecal sample to my vet yesterday and have an appointment with her tomorrow. I just want to rule out any health issues. I think he likes to poo in private and I need to reset his thinking! Ha! Thanks for checking in on him!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Glad things are working out. Koodos to you. Sorry for taking this discussion off course. But I needed to address the issue that came up. As I mentioned I asked a professional to shed some light on this side topic as I was too "visceral". Here is a trainers take on this. 

" This method has been around for years. That doesn't make it useful or safe. It does not address the cause. When a dog is holding back eliminating because of poor weather, an indoor toilet shoud be provided. And a program to acclimate the dog to varied weather situations would definitely help. . Do not put any foreign body into a dog’s rectum without discussion with a vet, instructions e.g. a thermometer, and careful restraint of the dog. This can be very upsetting to many dogs. The dog moving a little or the person inserting incorrectly can cause internal damaging. There is no need to do this. If a dog isn’t toileting, a vet visit is warranted to discuss underlying causes rather than quick fix, that might not be a fix at all. NEVER make a dog defecate. A suppository or enema may be used but generally this is a last resort where all other issues have been ruled out. A dog can develop anxiety issues every time bad weather approaches knowing what can follow. This can become a learned behavior similar to car sickness. When we know better, we do better. We now know better."


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## Chasing Mayzie (Aug 16, 2016)

I think the discussion didn't veer so much off topic as it seems: the dog was pooping in the night BECAUSE he wouldn't poop in the evening when she took him out. So getting him to poo in the evening was the OP's goal to avoid the dog pooping in the night. 

Dave, I am having a hard time honing in on what you are saying. You said "When a dog is holding back eliminating because of poor weather, an indoor toilet shoud be provided". Does that mean it isn't even okay to ask a dog to stand in the rain until she potties? Because that's just crazycakes to me. 

Look...you say potato, I say potato (haha, maybe that is a sentence that has to be said out loud to have impact). That's ok. I don't have to convince you of my perspective, and you don't have to convince me of yours. The internet is chock full of quotes from trainers and veterinarians and multi-title holding breeder/owner/handlers who say using a matchstick is a simple, painless remedy to a common problem, and there are also articles about housebreaking being dependent upon consistency regardless of weather. You have provided one quote and could undoubtedly provide more quotes saying the opposite. That's just fine. We can coexist with different opinions.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Chasing Mayzie said:


> I think the discussion didn't veer so much off topic as it seems: the dog was pooping in the night BECAUSE he wouldn't poop in the evening when she took him out. So getting him to poo in the evening was the OP's goal to avoid the dog pooping in the night.
> 
> Dave, I am having a hard time honing in on what you are saying. You said "When a dog is holding back eliminating because of poor weather, an indoor toilet shoud be provided". Does that mean it isn't even okay to ask a dog to stand in the rain until she potties? Because that's just crazycakes to me.
> 
> Look...you say potato, I say potato (haha, maybe that is a sentence that has to be said out loud to have impact). That's ok. I don't have to convince you of my perspective, and you don't have to convince me of yours. The internet is chock full of quotes from trainers and veterinarians and multi-title holding breeder/owner/handlers who say using a matchstick is a simple, painless remedy to a common problem, and there are also articles about housebreaking being dependent upon consistency regardless of weather. You have provided one quote and could undoubtedly provide more quotes saying the opposite. That's just fine. We can coexist with different opinions.


I must offer my unsolicited opinion regarding sticking anything up your pet's anus. Would you stick a piece of wood up your baby's anus? It is dangerous and is abusive regardless of how many websites espouse it. You can find any kind of "advice" online these days because unfortunately people now make money depending on the amount of clicks achieved on their site. That doesn't make them experts. Many websites will copy verbatim other sites whether it is validated or not. The same goes for dog shows. I can't imagine any veterinarian worthy of a license endorsing this method. I would strongly urge you to get advice from your vet regarding sticking splintery wood into any cavity of your poor dog. Any breeder/handler who practices this method should be reported. Keep in mind that money corrupts. Winning in dog shows (for corrupt breeders) is a step up to higher prices for their dogs.

I'm from Kentucky. They used to put a hot burning chemical on the bottoms of horses hooves to make them pick their feet up higher during horse shows. Fortunately it was eventually outlawed. Raising a well-adjusted dog takes patience and kindness and empathy. That is where we as humans elevate ourselves to a higher plain.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

goldanimals said:


> I'm from Kentucky. They used to put a hot burning chemical on the bottoms of horses hooves to make them pick their feet up higher during horse shows. Fortunately it was eventually outlawed.


Unfortunately, our new president just put the new law banning this practice on indefinite "hold for review".


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

krandall said:


> Unfortunately, our new president just put the new law banning this practice on indefinite "hold for review".


I don't think it is helpful to interject politics especially when your statement holds no validity. Let's just keep this about our wonderful doggies.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

I would never stick anything up Ricky's butt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew, gross! However, it sure looks like somebody shoved a wayward rocket up his butt when he RLH!










Ricky's Popi


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I think Julie did the right things by adding the after dinner walk, bringing back the crate at night, and checking back with her vet to rule out medical issues. I am glad things are improving with her dog's elimination schedule.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

you said ...' 
"Dave, I am having a hard time honing in on what you are saying. You said "When a dog is holding back eliminating because of poor weather, an indoor toilet shoud be provided". Does that mean it isn't even okay to ask a dog to stand in the rain until she potties? Because that's just crazycakes to me."

no, what I am saying is that you don't let a dog wait longer than half a day without eliminating. Many dogs will hold it because of weather but waiting beyond this is not healthy physically and emotionally. You can also train dogs to better acclimate to adverse weather which means going out with them holding an umbrella whatever. My Molly will go out in pouring rain snow storms whatever. I slowly conditioned her and even made it fun for her. One certainly should not wait 3 days and then shove a matchstick up its ass.I know hundreds of trainers and I bet none of them would endorse what you or this article are suggesting. The solution is so simple .Provide a pee pad if your dog is reluctant to go in fowl weather. How would you like to through this?


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

My Molly is a tiny one and a bit of a "delicate flower" when it comes to braving the elements. I have an arsenal of things to make it more comfortable for her. This includes a large golf umbrella, rain slicker, winter parka, sweaters, dog and baby socks, and dog booties. She does fine except for extreme wind chills in the winter, high winds, or certain snowy conditions. If she doesn't go quickly the conditions will get to her and she will want to go back in the house. I have set up an emergency potty area in my basement in case this happens. We don't have to use it very often but it is nice to have it in case we need it. Even though she is trained for outside potty only, she picked up on the inside option quickly and does not have a problem using it. I think housetraining is all about teaching them WHERE it is appropriate to go potty. I leave it up to Molly to tell me WHEN she has to go.


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## Chasing Mayzie (Aug 16, 2016)

goldanimals said:


> I must offer my unsolicited opinion regarding sticking anything up your pet's anus. Would you stick a piece of wood up your baby's anus? ...


If it is posted on this message board, then I consider an opinion solicited. I am glad you gave your opinion. I personally learn from discussions like this.

I just can't use the "would you do this to your human baby..." points as useful because we don't make our babies walk all night on a leash until they poop outside. Humans have different needs and different bodies. That being said, yes, we do stick stuff up our babies' butts to make them poop. It is just made of glycerin, not a paper matchstick. We stick thermometers up our babies AND our dog's butts to check their temperature. I heartily encouraged Dee Dee to pursue fecal transplant where sanitized fecal matter from a donor dog would be injected into Sophie's anus to encourage growth of healthy bacteria. Should she have just cleaned up diarrhea constantly instead to avoid abusing Sophie? PS: I'm not suggesting where Dee Dee falls on this discussion.

You as an owner are in the best position to know: does this bother your dog and/or does it bother you? If so, then there are plenty of other options.

Dave, if memory serves, you fall in the "spaying/neutering is wrong" camp (if I'm wrong, forgive, but it's just for an example anyway). I have no problem with that any more than I have a problem with the indoor pottying camp. Potato potato.

It is possible to disagree without throwing terms "abusive" at people. Anyone who knows me knows I would never abuse Mayzie, and I heartily resent the way you are so steadfastly standing by that label.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

any one who let s their dog go 3 days while its afraid to eliminate outside OR inside and then you shove a matchstick up its ass IS ABUSIVE. A person who uses a prong collar is abusive. You obviously havent learned how animal behavior works. Don't misquote me I have always said neutering is a personal choice.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Chasing Mayzie said:


> If it is posted on this message board, then I consider an opinion solicited. I am glad you gave your opinion. I personally learn from discussions like this.
> 
> I just can't use the "would you do this to your human baby..." points as useful because we don't make our babies walk all night on a leash until they poop outside. Humans have different needs and different bodies. That being said, yes, we do stick stuff up our babies' butts to make them poop. It is just made of glycerin, not a paper matchstick. We stick thermometers up our babies AND our dog's butts to check their temperature. I heartily encouraged Dee Dee to pursue fecal transplant where sanitized fecal matter from a donor dog would be injected into Sophie's anus to encourage growth of healthy bacteria. Should she have just cleaned up diarrhea constantly instead to avoid abusing Sophie? PS: I'm not suggesting where Dee Dee falls on this discussion.
> 
> ...


A wooden matchstick up a dog's anus is the same as a matchstick up a baby's anus. Their skin is no less resilient. I am sure you do not intend to be abusive to your little Mayzie, but these actions "could" have harmful and unexpected consequences. This forum is read by lots of novice dog owners who look to these posts for information. I feel I would be remiss if I didn't speak up to prevent some active little puppy from being harmed.


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## Chasing Mayzie (Aug 16, 2016)

goldanimals said:


> ... I feel I would be remiss if I didn't speak up to prevent some active little puppy from being harmed.


Just 2 things: First, I'd use a paper matchstick, and secondly, you do not have to apologize or give reasons for offering your opinion. It is just as valid as anyone else's. I will always try to make this a safe environment where you can ask questions or give opinions.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

goldanimals said:


> I don't think it is helpful to interject politics especially when your statement holds no validity. Let's just keep this about our wonderful doggies.


It isn't politics. It's just a matter of fact. Sorry you don't like it. Those of us in the horse world are very upset about it. We were all elated when the bill was passed last year. The comment I responded to was about soring horses, not dogs. I feel just as passionate about my horses as I do about my dogs.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

krandall said:


> Unfortunately, our new president just put the new law banning this practice on indefinite "hold for review".


I understand now. I was not aware that Trump had put the Past ACT legislation on hold for review as you stated. I owned a walking horse but was never into "showing". I always abhorred the cruelty used for the purpose of "shows" on any animal. I assumed that you were making a political statement that was unfounded. It surprises me that he would have done this in only two weeks of office.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

goldanimals said:


> I understand now. I was not aware that Trump had put the Past ACT legislation on hold for review as you stated. I owned a walking horse but was never into "showing". I always abhorred the cruelty used for the purpose of "shows" on any animal. I assumed that you were making a political statement that was unfounded. It surprises me that he would have done this in only two weeks of office.


I have never owned a TWH, though I've known several nice ones. But the people I knew who owned them were like you... They were flat shod and used as wonderful trail horses, not tortured to show unnatural gaits in the ring.

And... regardless of my political views, I very much appreciate that this is one of the ONLY "politics-free" zones where we can just relax and enjoy our friends and animals these days.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

krandall said:


> I have never owned a TWH, though I've known several nice ones. But the people I knew who owned them were like you... They were flat shod and used as wonderful trail horses, not tortured to show unnatural gaits in the ring.
> 
> And... regardless of my political views, I very much appreciate that this is one of the ONLY "politics-free" zones where we can just relax and enjoy our friends and animals these days.


Yes! I totally agree. It's a great forum.


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## Layla's Mom (Feb 1, 2016)

Ok, so I have been lurking here for months (mostly because I check in on my phone and it's a pain to post from, laziness I guess). Anyways, I feel compelled to respond to this thread for two reasons. First, to the OP, my Layla was a "nighttime pooper" for almost her first 2 years. I tried everything (never, ever, ever a matchstick though:surprise. I tried crating, feeding her later in the day, earlier in the day, walking right before bed (she'd sometimes poop, but still wake up to poop at night, grrr), indoor potty, we tried a behaviorist, advice from my obedience instructors and I'm sure I'm missing about 10 other tricks and suggestions. Well, you get my drift here, she had a biological clock going on and "Needed" to poop between 2-5 am, pretty much every night. This literally went on for almost two years. When she was about 1, I finally resided myself to getting up with her. It wasn't like she wanted to play or just wake me up for no reason, she really had to poop! All the techniques we tried with her were "humane", positive, attempts at retraining, they just didn't work to change her internal clock. My point here is sometimes, we are dealt what we are dealt and we just have to move forward with it, not try some off the wall techniques, that could potentially endanger our beloved dogs. 

Second is, this matchstick idea is the craziest thing I have ever heard of! I thought it was a joke when I first read this thread. I totally agree with Dave, it is abusive and unsafe! First, suppositories for babies or adults are Not the same! Match sticks are not made to be inserted into butts and suppositories have been tested and made to be exclusively inserted into butts! Besides the absurdity of it, it is not addressing the underlying issue, which is the dog not wanting to go poo, for whatever reason. Figure out what that reason is! Or at least try.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Nice to see you back, Christine!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm really late on jumping in this discussion. I have actually heard of the match stick trick. I was previously on a forum called Corgi on Wheels which is a forum devoted to corgis with spinal or mobility problems as a result of IVDD or DM. My Foxy finally came to a point where she was paralyzed from the front to the back due to DM and I had to stimulate her to get her to poo and had to learn to express her urine. The match stick was discussed in this forum as well as a gloved finger. However, I found just pressure with maybe a cold, clean rock (some used ice cubes) against the anus was enough to encourage the elimination muscles to start working. I would not recommend any of these procedures unless there was a medical issue that prevented the natural process to occur.


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## Chasing Mayzie (Aug 16, 2016)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> I'm really late on jumping in this discussion. I have actually heard of the match stick trick. I was previously on a forum called Corgi on Wheels which is a forum devoted to corgis with spinal or mobility problems as a result of IVDD or DM. My Foxy finally came to a point where she was paralyzed from the front to the back due to DM and I had to stimulate her to get her to poo and had to learn to express her urine. The match stick was discussed in this forum as well as a gloved finger. However, I found just pressure with maybe a cold, clean rock (some used ice cubes) against the anus was enough to encourage the elimination muscles to start working. I would not recommend any of these procedures unless there was a medical issue that prevented the natural process to occur.


I think the use of the matchstick trick for a paralyzed dog is a much different discussion than for a stubborn dog. For a paralyzed dog, you have medical considerations, not just behavioral. Even some of you folks who don't think the matchstick use is ethical may change your mind with the paralyzed dog situation.

I think people who are shocked by the matchstick trick should read up on fecal transplant where one dog's poop is injected into another dog's anus. If matchsticks surprise you, then fecal transplant will blow your mind!  Of course, again, the issues are medical (not just behavioral).


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Chasing Mayzie said:


> I think the use of the matchstick trick for a paralyzed dog is a much different discussion than for a stubborn dog. For a paralyzed dog, you have medical considerations, not just behavioral. Even some of you folks who don't think the matchstick use is ethical may change your mind with the paralyzed dog situation.
> 
> I think people who are shocked by the matchstick trick should read up on fecal transplant where one dog's poop is injected into another dog's anus. If matchsticks surprise you, then fecal transplant will blow your mind!  Of course, again, the issues are medical (not just behavioral).


your dog in this case is not being "stubborn." It is that the weather is strongly aversive and or freightening. See my article on "Stubborn" and I would highly recommend a book like Jean Donaldson's Culture Clash.


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## Chasing Mayzie (Aug 16, 2016)

davetgabby said:


> your dog in this case is not being "stubborn." It is that the weather is strongly aversive and or freightening. See my article on "Stubborn" and I would highly recommend a book like Jean Donaldson's Culture Clash.


Stubborn or weather resistant is the same thing. The dog is refusing to poop for a reason other than its health. I am sure the book you reference says what you say it does. There are also articles, book chapters, videos, and advice columns written by trainers, breeders, and owners who say otherwise. I highly recommend them to you. I've always said you could do the Google yourself, but do you need the links?

Geezalou, you've given your opinion and I've given mine. Time let this sleeping dog lie.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I have read both sides. It's sad that you don't even care to help her out in this regard. Instead you blame her for being stubborn. I won't sit by without speaking up for dogs who can't speak for themselves ,and when they do ,no one is listening,


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## Chasing Mayzie (Aug 16, 2016)

davetgabby said:


> I have read both sides. It's sad that you don't even care to help her out in this regard. Instead you blame her for being stubborn. I won't sit by without speaking up for dogs who can't speak for themselves ,and when they do ,no one is listening,


Mayzie doesn't need you to speak up for her. So you are welcome to stop doing so at any time.


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## JulieB (Jun 16, 2016)

Molly120213 said:


> I think Julie did the right things by adding the after dinner walk, bringing back the crate at night, and checking back with her vet to rule out medical issues. I am glad things are improving with her dog's elimination schedule.


Thank you!


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