# Panda's Spay Day <Sniff>



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Please keep my special girl in your thoughts today. I know that it's "routine" surgery, but I still feel bad for my girl, who already had to have ONE zipper for her C-section this year, and now is being spayed. But I also know that another litter is not in her best interests, and dealing with her and a maturing stud puppy son is not in MY best interests. So... it had to be done.

They will call me when she's awake and I can pick her up late this afternoon.💕


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Hugs and prayers for your sweet Panda!


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## BoosDad (Mar 8, 2020)

Thinking of you, Panda. Boo


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Ricky says, "Just say NO to cones!" Ricky and I send our best wishes to the Panda.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Hoping Panda has an easy spay and recovery!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

DogFather said:


> Ricky says, "Just say NO to cones!" Ricky and I send our best wishes to the Panda.


Fortunately, she doesn't mind cones. She thinks they are big shovels that you can use to scoop up mulch and fling at other Havanese! LOL!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I hope you both get lots of snuggles this week from each other


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Hoping little Panda makes a speedy recovery! 🥰


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## LWalks (Feb 7, 2021)

Hoping all goes well and she heals quickly!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Poor girlie is home, but won't settle. I suspect it is the anesthesia more than anything. If I put her in the ex-pen, she just cries, but she won't lie down. She is just slowly walking around, looking miserable... The other adult dogs are checking in on her... Ducky is barking at her cone! LOL!


















I may switch this soft collar the sent home for a plastic one. I know they thought this was "nicer" because it's a "soft" collar, but she's between sizes, so it's so big, it goes around almost twice, with all this extra flapping. The plastic one does the same thing, but I could cut the extra off, so it's not hanging down. And I know the plastic one doesn't bother her, because she's had to wear one a couple of times in the past.

I'll wait until tomorrow, and see how she's doing overall at that point. She has Gabapentin and Rimadyl as pain meds, as well as Arnica for healing.


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## Ditto's Mom (Apr 29, 2007)

Hugs for a speedy recovery sweet girl from me and Phoenix. 💓


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> Fortunately, she doesn't mind cones. She thinks they are big shovels that you can use to scoop up mulch and fling at other Havanese! LOL!


I should have had her teach Perry that - instead I was the big meanie who made him wear a cone in his crate. To be fair, he didn't seem to mind it too much - even though we had to switch back to the plastic because he was able to push the cloth ones far enough to chew on the edge of his cast and his toes.

Luckily though he also was good enough that when he was sitting with me we didn't need it at all (until the pin removal when he wouldn't listen and wanted to chew on it) because he'd stop the minute I told him to


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> I should have had her teach Perry that - instead I was the big meanie who made him wear a cone in his crate. To be fair, he didn't seem to mind it too much - even though we had to switch back to the plastic because he was able to push the cloth ones far enough to chew on the edge of his cast and his toes.
> 
> Luckily though he also was good enough that when he was sitting with me we didn't need it at all (until the pin removal when he wouldn't listen and wanted to chew on it) because he'd stop the minute I told him to


Well, Of course I'll leave the cone on her for the first 24 hours, while she's "altered" mentally. But knowing her, I suspect that after that, I'll be able to leave it off her when she's with me and I can keep an eye on her. She NEVER bothered her C-section incision, which was MUCH larger than this, and she had less in the way of pain meds because she was nursing.


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## Havanese Dreams (Jun 6, 2021)

krandall said:


> Please keep my special girl in your thoughts today. I know that it's "routine" surgery, but I still feel bad for my girl, who already had to have ONE zipper for her C-section this year, and now is being spayed. But I also know that another litter is not in her best interests, and dealing with her and a maturing stud puppy son is not in MY best interests. So... it had to be done.
> 
> They will call me when she's awake and I can pick her up late this afternoon.💕


She and Kiki share the same spay day! Kiki’s been sleeping it off. Here she is on the ride home.


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

Hope you're feeling better very soon, Panda!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Havanese Dreams said:


> Here she is on the ride home.


If I had just been altered, I'd have that look in my eyes too!!! 😵


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Havanese Dreams said:


> She and Kiki share the same spay day! Kiki’s been sleeping it off. Here she is on the ride home.
> View attachment 176381


Poor baby! She looks a little loopy!  Watch that cone… We had the same problem with Panda the first time they gave her a cone… many Havanese are “between sizes”. We started off eith that size, and her nose poking SLIGHTLY beyond it, and she had NO PROBLEM reaching her injured foot. That’s why she’s in the HUGE one now. Alas, this is the “next size up”.


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## Ditto's Mom (Apr 29, 2007)

Sending all good wishes for a quick recovery to Panda and Kiki.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> Poor baby! She looks a little loopy!  Watch that cone… We had the same problem with Panda the first time they gave her a cone… many Havanese are “between sizes”. We started off eith that size, and her nose poking SLIGHTLY beyond it, and she had NO PROBLEM reaching her injured foot. That’s why she’s in the HUGE one now. Alas, this is the “next size up”.


Perry's plastic cones fit perfectly and were the perfect length (I actually really liked the second one they gave us - they fit it to him and then put a velcro strip long-wise so it hooked very nicely -- but the soft ones we got he could push down far enough to reach his foot.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Well, we have had an unexpected turn this morning! We got up late to this!









Poor girlie!!! So we are now waiting at the vet’s office to be seen again. No idea what would cause this after a spay!!!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Oh wow…thinking of you and Panda and hoping this is nothing.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Keep us posted, Karen.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

She has an infection in both eyes. It's unclear why, though I have talked to a vet friend and a friend who is an anesthesia vet tech, and both are very suspicious that the lube used on her eyes during surgery may have been contaminated. In any case, we caught it early, she has ointment for her eyes, and as there was some MILD pinkness around her incision, and tomorrow is Sunday, in an abundance of caution, they also put her on Doxycycline. They do not THINK she has an infect at the incision site, but they are just being cautious there.

So we are home and she is resting comfortably under my desk again... and very happy that I just shared a tidbit of zucchini bread with her! 💕


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> So we are home and she is resting comfortably under my desk again... and very happy that I just shared a tidbit of zucchini bread with her! 💕


Good to hear about Panda.

HEY, I'll rest comfortably under your desk too for a piece of zucchini bread! 🤗


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Sending more hugs and prayers for Miss Panda!


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## BoosDad (Mar 8, 2020)

Wishing Panda a speedy recovery.


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## LWalks (Feb 7, 2021)

Rough couple days for Panda! Hope the meds kick in soon. Your vet friend’s theory seems to make sense… that would be quite the coincidence otherwise to end up with an infection in BOTH eyes right after surgery!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Good news! Panda’s eyes look 95% better this morning! Of course we will continue the meds, but there is just the TINIEST bit of crustiness left this morning, and her eyes are bright and happy! Now comes the hard part… she’s feeling MUCH better and sees no REAL reason for “staying quiet”! LOL!


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## Havanese Dreams (Jun 6, 2021)

krandall said:


> Good news! Panda’s eyes look 95% better this morning! Of course we will continue the meds, but there is just the TINIEST bit of crustiness left this morning, and her eyes are bright and happy! Now comes the hard part… she’s feeling MUCH better and sees no REAL reason for “staying quiet”! LOL!


So glad she’s feeling better!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

So… wanted to fill in the back story on the last few days. I did not give you the FULL story on Sat., because I was not at all sure I agreed with the vet on Sat. And that is a large part of what I want to talk about. I know we have some mild back and forth banter here on the forum between some who say “take the advice of your vet” for most everything, while others of us are more guarded, and while we DEFINITELY have great respect for trusted vets, ALSO believe in self educating to as great a degree possible, and also trusting our gut in terms of our dogs’s health.

When Panda woke up with her eyes streaming puss on Sat morning, there was no question that she needed urgent veterinary care. Our vets office was open, but OUR vet was not on duty. The vet we saw is a VERY nice gal, quite competent, but I know from experience that she tends to be a bit of an alarmist, and also tends to over-treat. She was VERY thorough and kind examining Panda, and even though this problem showed up less than 24 hours after a major surgery and anesthesia, with NO previous history of eye problems, she pronounced that Panda not only had this infection (which she clearly had) but based on the fact that she had mildly reduced tear production in ONE eye, that she had an autoimmune disease known as Keratoconjunctivitis sicca (KCS) and would need to be on immune suppressive eye ointment for the rest of her life. I was to bring her back in a month to see if the drug she had been put on was STRONG enough, whether she was then producing enough tears, or if she needed stronger drugs. This seemed like a BIG leap to me. 

I went home and did some research. I also talked to some vet friends and also a friend who spent her career as a anesthesia tech at a major university vet hospital. (And I do recognize that not everyone has THOSE resources) ALL of them agreed with me. They said that this kind of infection was usually a result of either a tech forgetting to lubricate the eyes, or the lube being contaminated. Interestingly, the tech who had assisted in the surgery, who is VERY competent, and would have been unlikely not to have lubed her eyes, had checked us in on Sat. He had mentioned a third possibility. It turns out that the lube used by this office has been changed between when Panda had her OFA xrays done and now. So it is also possible that she had some sort of allergic reaction to the lube which set her up for the infection.

So Mon. morning I made an appointment with my regular vet. I saw her today. She agreed with me that KCS is unlikely. She also thinks it is highly likely that she had a reaction to the lube. She said her eyes looked great today, and were producing plenty of tears. She took her back off the Optimune ointment. (We will still finish the antibiotic ointment, as she clearly DID have an infection) She sees Panda every couple of months for chiro anyway, and has an appointment in less than a month now, so she will recheck her then. And of course if ANY further problems come up with her eyes, I will bring her in sooner. But to assume that there is a life-long auto-immune problem based on a single test for low tear production in one eye, less than 24 hours after an animal has undergone a major insult to its body… that’s a big leap. 

THIS is what I mean by working with your vets, respecting their knowledge, yet ALSO educating and trusting yourself. I have already discussed with my regular vet that if there IS a serious, on-going problem with Panda’s eyes (which neither of us think is likely) that I would want a referal to a board certified opthamologist anyway… that wasn’t something I’d want to play around with.

So there’s the whole story! On the “other good news” front, since we were there anyway, Dr. Linda also checked her incision… What incision? We have moved on to “scar” at this point! She no longer needs her cone, and based on what I told her, we can stop her pain meds too! Of course she still DOES need to stay relatively quiet… no stairs, no jumping on or off furniture, and no racing or wrestling with the other dogs. But she’s mighty happy not to be a “cone head” anymore!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> So… wanted to fill in the back story on the last few days. I did not give you the FULL story on Sat., because I was not at all sure I agreed with the vet on Sat. And that is a large part of what I want to talk about. I know we have some mild back and forth banter here on the forum between some who say “take the advice of your vet” for most everything, while others of us are more guarded, and while we DEFINITELY have great respect for trusted vets, ALSO believe in self educating to as great a degree possible, and also trusting our gut in terms of our dogs’s health.
> 
> When Panda woke up with her eyes streaming puss on Sat morning, there was no question that she needed urgent veterinary care. Our vets office was open, but OUR vet was not on duty. The vet we saw is a VERY nice gal, quite competent, but I know from experience that she tends to be a bit of an alarmist, and also tends to over-treat. She was VERY thorough and kind examining Panda, and even though this problem showed up less than 24 hours after a major surgery and anesthesia, with NO previous history of eye problems, she pronounced that Panda not only had this infection (which she clearly had) but based on the fact that she had mildly reduced tear production in ONE eye, that she had an autoimmune disease known as Keratoconjunctivitis sicca (KCS) and would need to be on immune suppressive eye ointment for the rest of her life. I was to bring her back in a month to see if the drug she had been put on was STRONG enough, whether she was then producing enough tears, or if she needed stronger drugs. This seemed like a BIG leap to me.
> 
> ...


When you hear hoofbeats think horses, not zebras. Sounds like the new vet assumes zebras.

That's not to say they you don't keep an eye out to see if zebras show up instead of horses  but the simpler explanation is often the better place to start.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> When you hear hoofbeats think horses, not zebras. Sounds like the new vet assumes zebras.
> 
> That's not to say they you don't keep an eye out to see if zebras show up instead of horses  but the simpler explanation is often the better place to start.


This is EXACTLY what a good friend of mine said when we were talking on Sat. after I got home! LOL!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> So… wanted to fill in the back story on the last few days. I did not give you the FULL story on Sat., because I was not at all sure I agreed with the vet on Sat. And that is a large part of what I want to talk about. I know we have some mild back and forth banter here on the forum between some who say “take the advice of your vet” for most everything, while others of us are more guarded, and while we DEFINITELY have great respect for trusted vets, ALSO believe in self educating to as great a degree possible, and also trusting our gut in terms of our dogs’s health.
> 
> When Panda woke up with her eyes streaming puss on Sat morning, there was no question that she needed urgent veterinary care. Our vets office was open, but OUR vet was not on duty. The vet we saw is a VERY nice gal, quite competent, but I know from experience that she tends to be a bit of an alarmist, and also tends to over-treat. She was VERY thorough and kind examining Panda, and even though this problem showed up less than 24 hours after a major surgery and anesthesia, with NO previous history of eye problems, she pronounced that Panda not only had this infection (which she clearly had) but based on the fact that she had mildly reduced tear production in ONE eye, that she had an autoimmune disease known as Keratoconjunctivitis sicca (KCS) and would need to be on immune suppressive eye ointment for the rest of her life. I was to bring her back in a month to see if the drug she had been put on was STRONG enough, whether she was then producing enough tears, or if she needed stronger drugs. This seemed like a BIG leap to me.
> 
> ...


You go girl. I feel like printing this out and framing it and hanging it on my wall. This is a super great example of working WITH a vet and for taking charge of your animal’s health!!! No blind trusting of vets or doctors. It should be a collaborative effort. I was going to add also that I used to get eye infections frequently that I eventually discovered to be related to the preservatives in my contact lens solutions. I wonder if this could be Panda’s problem also.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I also have a recent example of working collaboratively with my vet. My yorkie had an elevated ALT level several months ago. The vet recommend retesting in a few months. However, we also discussed collaboratively if and what liver support might be given in the mean time. She suggested Denamarin Advanced which I had used once before and disliked it because it caused my dogs to become gassy and bile vomit which they never do normally. I expressed my concerns and she suggested Standard Process Canine Liver Support since it is more “natural” and sort of a nutritional support which is more along the lines of how I like to support my pets. However, I researched this product myself and actually talked to a person knowledgeable at Standard Process and I had some concerns. One of the main ingredients is liver which my dogs already get in their diet and which is dangerous if fed in excess especially to a dog with a possible liver problem. The Standard Process folks could not give me an answer with regard to how much liver was in their product. Both copper and vitamin A come from liver and are dangerous in excess. They could not give me any information on how much of these came from the liver in their product. I discussed these concerns with my vet and she agreed with me. Therefore, I went with the Denamarin Advanced instead. She actually respected me for pointing this out to her. Although she supported a raw homemade diet she was not an expert herself and had not considered this. I thought this was a good example of taking control of your animal’s health and working collaboratively with a vet.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> You go girl. I feel like printing this out and framing it and hanging it on my wall. This is a super great example of working WITH a vet and for taking charge of your animal’s health!!! No blind trusting of vets or doctors. It should be a collaborative effort. I was going to add also that I used to get eye infections frequently that I eventually discovered to be related to the preservatives in my contact lens solutions. I wonder if this could be Panda’s problem also.


Interestingly, my regular vet commented that she didn't like the lube they are currently using. I didn't follow up on the comment, because we had more to discuss, and I didn't want to take up her WHOLE lunch hour. (she saw me while she SHOULD have been eating lunch, and didn't charge me... yeah, she's THAT kind of vet.  )


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> So… wanted to fill in the back story on the last few days. I did not give you the FULL story on Sat., because I was not at all sure I agreed with the vet on Sat. And that is a large part of what I want to talk about. I know we have some mild back and forth banter here on the forum between some who say “take the advice of your vet” for most everything, while others of us are more guarded, and while we DEFINITELY have great respect for trusted vets, ALSO believe in self educating to as great a degree possible, and also trusting our gut in terms of our dogs’s health.
> 
> When Panda woke up with her eyes streaming puss on Sat morning, there was no question that she needed urgent veterinary care. Our vets office was open, but OUR vet was not on duty. The vet we saw is a VERY nice gal, quite competent, but I know from experience that she tends to be a bit of an alarmist, and also tends to over-treat. She was VERY thorough and kind examining Panda, and even though this problem showed up less than 24 hours after a major surgery and anesthesia, with NO previous history of eye problems, she pronounced that Panda not only had this infection (which she clearly had) but based on the fact that she had mildly reduced tear production in ONE eye, that she had an autoimmune disease known as Keratoconjunctivitis sicca (KCS) and would need to be on immune suppressive eye ointment for the rest of her life. I was to bring her back in a month to see if the drug she had been put on was STRONG enough, whether she was then producing enough tears, or if she needed stronger drugs. This seemed like a BIG leap to me.
> 
> ...


I am one of those "take the advice of your Vet" people. But for the most part I don't disagree with what you said above. I am the type of person that researches things to death, whether it be my health or Ricky's health. The problem is you can find information or opinions that justify anything for your 'a priori' (pre-conceived) conclusions on the Internet. I do discuss in detail with Ricky's Vet any questions or doubts on my mind. He is very patient with me and often times admits that frequently there is conflicting information about canine health issues. He says he goes into more detail with me than he does with his other patients because I maintain an open mind and willing to listen to all sides of the question. Most of the time I take his advice based on his training and experience for our specific case in our specific location(s). It can vary to a great extent, depending on your specific case and location. There is no "one size fits all" conclusion. It just depends.

You can find both good and bad MD's (for human health) and DVM's (for canine health). If you don't trust your Vet, get a new one. At this point, I trust Ricky's Vet. The same for your MD, if you don't trust them, get a new one. About 7 or 8 months ago, I lost confidence in my Primary Care Physician. I have a new one now and I am much happier.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

DogFather said:


> I am one of those "take the advice of your Vet" people. But for the most part I don't disagree with what you said above. I am the type of person that researches things to death, whether it be my health or Ricky's health. The problem is you can find information or opinions that justify anything for your 'a priori' (pre-conceived) conclusions on the Internet. I do discuss in detail with Ricky's Vet any questions or doubts on my mind. He is very patient with me and often times admits that frequently there is conflicting information about canine health issues. He says he goes into more detail with me than he does with his other patients because I maintain an open mind and willing to listen to all sides of the question. Most of the time I take his advice based on his training and experience for our specific case in our specific location(s). It can vary to a great extent, depending on your specific case and location. There is no "one size fits all" conclusion. It just depends.
> 
> You can find both good and bad MD's (for human health) and DVM's (for canine health). If you don't trust your Vet, get a new one. At this point, I trust Ricky's Vet. The same for your MD, if you don't trust them, get a new one. About 7 or 8 months ago, I lost confidence in my Primary Care Physician. I have a new one now and I am much happier.


It is definitely important to feel you can trust your doctor or vet. However, I still think you can have some collaboration and still trust them. It is also important to know when you need to switch. Good for you for knowing when to switch doctors.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

DogFather said:


> You can find both good and bad MD's (for human health) and DVM's (for canine health). If you don't trust your Vet, get a new one. At this point, I trust Ricky's Vet. The same for your MD, if you don't trust them, get a new one. About 7 or 8 months ago, I lost confidence in my Primary Care Physician. I have a new one now and I am much happier.


I agree with THAT for sure.

It is also, certainly true that you can read all KINDS of garbage on the internet. I am very skeptical, for instance, of things I read that come directly from The Whole Dog Journal, UNLESS I can do the deep dive and read the back-up literature (something I’m not sure many people do) I am much MORE likely to take seriously a peer reviewed article in a serious veterinary journal. I think it’s a BIG mistake to make people think that the ONLY place they can learn about their dog’s health is from their veterinarian. I think it is very important to learn to use the internet critically, and check your sources. These are big kid skills. I assume most of the people here ARE “big kids”.


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## BoosDad (Mar 8, 2020)

mudpuppymama said:


> I also have a recent example of working collaboratively with my vet. My yorkie had an elevated ALT level several months ago. The vet recommend retesting in a few months. However, we also discussed collaboratively if and what liver support might be given in the mean time. She suggested Denamarin Advanced which I had used once before and disliked it because it caused my dogs to become gassy and bile vomit which they never do normally. I expressed my concerns and she suggested Standard Process Canine Liver Support since it is more “natural” and sort of a nutritional support which is more along the lines of how I like to support my pets. However, I researched this product myself and actually talked to a person knowledgeable at Standard Process and I had some concerns. One of the main ingredients is liver which my dogs already get in their diet and which is dangerous if fed in excess especially to a dog with a possible liver problem. The Standard Process folks could not give me an answer with regard to how much liver was in their product. Both copper and vitamin A come from liver and are dangerous in excess. They could not give me any information on how much of these came from the liver in their product. I discussed these concerns with my vet and she agreed with me. Therefore, I went with the Denamarin Advanced instead. She actually respected me for pointing this out to her. Although she supported a raw homemade diet she was not an expert herself and had not considered this. I thought this was a good example of taking control of your animal’s health and working collaboratively with a vet.


Since you are working collaboratively with your vet, you might want to explore whether the elevated ALT could be related to another inflammatory process other than the liver. Unless you have an ultrasound suggestive of liver inflammation, there may be another cause for the elevation. As in Boo's case,which I explained ad nauseum in previous posts, chronic elevated ALT is related to IBD not liver disease, negating the need for liver support. Sometimes the most simple answer is not correct, and we just assume elevated ALT means liver problems. Of course, I don't know your Yorkie or whether s/he is exhibiting liver dysfunction symptoms. So my thinking might be completely off base. Good luck.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

BoosDad said:


> Since you are working collaboratively with your vet, you might want to explore whether the elevated ALT could be related to another inflammatory process other than the liver. Unless you have an ultrasound suggestive of liver inflammation, there may be another cause for the elevation. As in Boo's case,which I explained ad nauseum in previous posts, chronic elevated ALT is related to IBD not liver disease, negating the need for liver support. Sometimes the most simple answer is not correct, and we just assume elevated ALT means liver problems. Of course, I don't know your Yorkie or whether s/he is exhibiting liver dysfunction symptoms. So my thinking might be completely off base. Good luck.


Thanks BoosDad. We retested two months later and his liver enzymes were normal again. Therefore, it is a mystery. He had no symptoms of anything wrong. I suspect he had an overload of tick bites and could have been fighting a TBD, but that is just my theory. The ticks were horrid this year. He had at least 200 tick bites. Where I live now the ticks are thankfully better. But I do appreciate your advice. Thanks again.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

I would appreciate that we stay on topic - Panda's reaction to spay surgery and related topics on canine reactions to various chemical substances. Thanks. 🕵️‍♂️


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

DogFather said:


> I would appreciate that we stay on topic - Panda's reaction to spay surgery and related topics on canine reactions to various chemical substances. Thanks. 🕵️‍♂️


why? Not to be contrary, but I, personally, like how conversations morph organically. I'd hate to have to police what I write to see if they are enough on topic.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Brill said:


> why? Not to be contrary, but I, personally, like how conversations morph organically. I'd hate to have to police what I write to see if they are enough on topic.


I agree. I actually think that some of the best things I have learned here on the forum was when we strayed a bit. In this case, I don’t even think we are off topic. We are discussing how unexpected ingredients can cause problems, which may have been what happened to Panda!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It is also how/why we all become friends here, I think, in a very special way…


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I also enjoy analogies between the veterinary and medical worlds which to me have much in common.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I also enjoy analogies between the veterinary and medical worlds which to me have much in common.


LOL! I just pointed out in the other thread that humans are mammals too. My vet friends point out that human med students only need to learn about ONE species!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Boy, I've been away and have missed so much. I've been reading about Panda and am so glad she is fine and had a speedy recovery from the spay. No more Panda puppies!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> LOL! I just pointed out in the other thread that humans are mammals too. My vet friends point out that human med students only need to learn about ONE species!


I said that to my husband the other day - that vets actually have to learn more because they have to treat multiple species not just humans


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## BoosDad (Mar 8, 2020)

mudpuppymama said:


> Thanks BoosDad. We retested two months later and his liver enzymes were normal again. Therefore, it is a mystery. He had no symptoms of anything wrong. I suspect he had an overload of tick bites and could have been fighting a TBD, but that is just my theory. The ticks were horrid this year. He had at least 200 tick bites. Where I live now the ticks are thankfully better. But I do appreciate your advice. Thanks again.


You may be correcf. Infection can cause elevation of ALT.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

BoosDad said:


> You may be correcf. Infection can cause elevation of ALT.


I understand there are many causes, most of which are not direct liver problems. That is why the root cause is sometimes difficult to diagnose.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jackie from Concrete WA said:


> Boy, I've been away and have missed so much. I've been reading about Panda and am so glad she is fine and had a speedy recovery from the spay. No more Panda puppies!


Well, there was never a plan for more than one Panda litter in any case! She is my dance partner! I might not have spayed her for longer if I didn’t have an intact boy in the house, and the management issues that entails with an intact girl in the same house. But I never intended to have another litter from her even if she wasn’t spayed.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> I said that to my husband the other day - that vets actually have to learn more because they have to treat multiple species not just humans


And their education costs as much, but they make a LOT less money!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> And their education costs as much, but they make a LOT less money!


They may make less money but I saw one of the vets at Perry's specialty clinic driving off in a porche the last thing we were there so some at least aren't doing too badly .


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Melissa Brill said:


> They may make less money but I saw one of the vets at Perry's specialty clinic driving off in a porche the last thing we were there so some at least aren't doing too badly .


I don't think that is relevant when you don't know all the background - i.e. was the Porsche leased? is the spouse a corporate mogul?, was it a gift from wealthy parents? does the owner live in a one bedroom apartment by choice so they can drive a Porsche, etc. I know you were just kidding but be careful about coming to conclusions about other peoples relative wealth. I know people who are doctors and it is shocking how little they make for the amount of education they paid for. A dentist who is a personal friend told me he had to work 10 years to just breakeven on his educational expenses.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> They may make less money but I saw one of the vets at Perry's specialty clinic driving off in a porche the last thing we were there so some at least aren't doing too badly .


MAYBE some of the specialists, but still not commensurate to their human counterparts…


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> MAYBE some of the specialists, but still not commensurate to their human counterparts…


Oh for sure!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

krandall said:


> Well, there was never a plan for more than one Panda litter in any case! She is my dance partner! I might not have spayed her for longer if I didn’t have an intact boy in the house, and the management issues that entails with an intact girl in the same house. But I never intended to have another litter from her even if she wasn’t spayed.


I remember you saying that before. But oh my she had such perfect puppies and was such a wonderful mom!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jackie from Concrete WA said:


> I remember you saying that before. But oh my she had such perfect puppies and was such a wonderful mom!


Awww, thanks! But I really want to get back in the ring with her! I miss my girl, and Covid has taken a HUGE bite out of her career too…


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