# The Official Name Part of The Terms of Service Thread



## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Hi everyone,

Hope you're all doing well. Happy friday btw. I've been going back and forth with management on rewriting the Terms of Service and we decided to let the community provide input to the section in the TOS pertaining to your content in terms of how you want it worded.

We will review it and if needed, throw back amendments for you guys to review or use it as is.

The only part where this is applying to is with regards to content you guys post here.

Please let me give you some insight into how this applies typically on internet social media sites.

As I have said all along, we DO NOT want to own your content. We do want the users who post pictures and videos and articles here to give us a "license" to use it on this site. If you don't want us to use your content on our other sites (pet sites for the large part), state that. If you're ok with it, state that too.

Please remember that this entire discussion started with the question of "who owns what?" Therefore, try to stick to answering that question in your proposal.

I will say this to close: *We reserve the right to remove/leave whatever content you post onto this site.* This is not up for discussion. You have to remember that the internet is a form of communication that is no different than speech, writing on paper or other forms of communication. You cannot just post anything you want and expect to have it deleted at YOUR convenience. It doesn't work that way.

In the same manner that when you speak something in person to someone, if you make a mistake about it, you cannot just say, "oops, I take that back" and pretend as if it didn't happen. This is why you always need to consider what you write on the internet BEFORE you post it, whether it's here or on FB or on any publicly viewable site. This goes for pictures, videos or anything of that matter.

We will see how this thread plays out and then more than likely, you guys will give feedback to which wording you like best and that will be the one I present to our team.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Yung, I may suggest you change the tone of your message here if you want to win any people over around here. I have not commented yet since I was sitting back and taking the wait and see approach, but this post of yours rubbed me the wrong way. When all of us posted our stories, pictures, videos, etc. we posted them on a site we believed in and that promised us that there would be no puppy sales. You have changed the rules around here and we should be able to decide if we wish to support that or not. Just my two cents.


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

How about:

By posting/sending a message in any public electronic forum on the Web Site, you agree to have that message along with your name and/or user name posted for public viewing here. VerticalScope Inc. may ask at any time to use what you have posted here in other promotional and advertising materials and on other VerticalScope Inc. web sites, without compensation, if you decline the posting will be removed by VerticalScope Inc. and will not be used. HavaneseForum.com does not undertake to necessarily post every submission. All messages that are posted here represent the opinions of the individuals or organizations posting those messages, and do not express the ideas or opinions of HavaneseForum.com or VerticalScope Inc. You may copy the posted messages for personal use, but redistribution in any way requires the written permission of HavaneseForum.com and the user. In consideration of this authorization, you agree that any copy you make of any message(s) located on this web site shall retain all copyright and other proprietary notices contained therein. 
You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the content posted by you on or through the Web Site or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth below, and (ii) the Posting of your content does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. 
You own all of the content and information you post on HavaneseForum.com. You agree to grant to HavaneseForum.com a non exclusive, royalty free, worldwide, perpetual license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, sublicense, create derivative works of, publicly display, publish and perform any materials and other information you submit to any public areas, chat rooms, bulletin boards, newsgroups or forums of HavaneseForum.com or which you provide by email or any other means to HavaneseForum.com and in any media now known or hereafter developed. Further, you grant HavaneseForum.com the right to use your name and or user name in connection with the submitted materials and other information as well as in connection with all advertising, marketing and promotional material related thereto, together with use on any other VerticalScope Inc. web sites. Before use of any materials or information VerticalScope Inc. will notify the user and if the user declines the information or material will be removed from the website. You agree that you shall have no recourse against VerticalScope Inc. for any alleged or actual infringement or misappropriation of any proprietary right in your communications to HavaneseForum.com. 
In order to maintain an informative and valuable service that meets the needs of the users of the Web Site and avoids the harm that can result from disseminating statements that are false, malicious, in violation of the rights of others, or otherwise harmful, it is necessary to establish the following rules to protect against abuse.


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Brady's mom said:


> Yung, I may suggest you change the tone of your message here if you want to win any people over around here. I have not commented yet since I was sitting back and taking the wait and see approach, but this post of yours rubbed me the wrong way. When all of us posted our stories, pictures, videos, etc. we posted them on a site we believed in and that promised us that there would be no puppy sales. You have changed the rules around here and we should be able to decide if we wish to support that or not. Just my two cents.


Karen, I will answer your question via PM only because I would like to keep this thread on topic.


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## Janizona (Oct 17, 2006)

Yungster said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> As I have said all along, we DO NOT want to own your content. We do want the users who post pictures and videos and articles here to give us a "license" to use it on this site. If you don't want us to use your content on our other sites (pet sites for the large part), state that. If you're ok with it, state that too.
> 
> ...


I can see right off the bat that my postings on this forum will end. What I SHARE is still mine. This is not open to discussion. If I do not have the rights to remove the pictures later on, then I will not share.You can't compare that to Facebook or other viewable sites. I can remove my (MY) content when ever I choose.

I do NOT give permission to use any of my past postings or pictures of me or my dogs that anyone else has posted, for anything other than this forum.

If anyone has posted pictures of me or my dogs, I request that you remove them from this forum before big brother prevents that.

Thank you,


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Janet, you're taking the comment entirely out of context.

Suppose a user comes on the site and starts posting pictures of questionable content or worse, it does not belong to them. The comment: *"We reserve the right to remove/leave whatever content you post onto this site." *The comment here is to give us the discretion to remove said content.

Suppose someone comes on the site and starts making accusations that are baseless against you. You decide that you have been defamed and want to sue them. The user who posted these accusations decides that the damage is done and wants to delete their comment to cover their tracks. With the statement above, it does NOT allow them to. It means they have to take responsibility for what they post.


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## LilyMyLove (Jul 11, 2009)

Yungster said:


> I will say this to close: *We reserve the right to remove/leave whatever content you post onto this site.* This is not up for discussion. You have to remember that the internet is a form of communication that is no different than speech, writing on paper or other forms of communication. You cannot just post anything you want and expect to have it deleted at YOUR convenience. It doesn't work that way.
> 
> In the same manner that when you speak something in person to someone, if you make a mistake about it, you cannot just say, "oops, I take that back" and pretend as if it didn't happen. This is why you always need to consider what you write on the internet BEFORE you post it, whether it's here or on FB or on any publicly viewable site. This goes for pictures, videos or anything of that matter.


I don't know what facebook you have, maybe you're not Yung enough for that-but on that and all other social networking and internet sites I can erase anything I want to that was done under my profile. It may be able to be accessed via a cache, but as far as being on the current version of the site I can delete albums, wall posts, status updates, because I am the person that posted them in the first place.

Should we also take this to mean that moving forward we don't have the right to erase things that were done BEFORE you took over?


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

If you want to get into a debate with me about having the ability to edit your content, start another thread or send me a PM. This is not the thread for it.


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## LilyMyLove (Jul 11, 2009)

Yungster said:


> Janet, you're taking the comment entirely out of context.
> 
> Suppose a user comes on the site and starts posting pictures of questionable content or worse, it does not belong to them. The comment: *"We reserve the right to remove/leave whatever content you post onto this site." *The comment here is to give us the discretion to remove said content.
> 
> Suppose someone comes on the site and starts making accusations that are baseless against you. You decide that you have been defamed and want to sue them. The user who posted these accusations decides that the damage is done and wants to delete their comment to cover their tracks. With the statement above, it does NOT allow them to. It means they have to take responsibility for what they post.


Is it for our protection? Your tone in the OP doesnt make it sound that way:
"*You cannot just post anything you want and expect to have it deleted at YOUR convenience.*"

If we wanted to sue someone for libel, Im sure you have backed out versions in a cache or on a hard drive of what the original posting was, it doesn't need to stay up on the internet in perpetuity. Or the person could take a screen grab, I mean really.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Gizmo'sMom said:


> How about:
> 
> By posting/sending a message in any public electronic forum on the Web Site, you agree to have that message along with your name and/or user name posted for public viewing here. VerticalScope Inc. may ask at any time to use what you have posted here in other promotional and advertising materials and on other VerticalScope Inc. web sites, without compensation, if you decline the posting will be removed by VerticalScope Inc. and will not be used. HavaneseForum.com does not undertake to necessarily post every submission. All messages that are posted here represent the opinions of the individuals or organizations posting those messages, and do not express the ideas or opinions of HavaneseForum.com or VerticalScope Inc. You may copy the posted messages for personal use, but redistribution in any way requires the written permission of HavaneseForum.com and the user. In consideration of this authorization, you agree that any copy you make of any message(s) located on this web site shall retain all copyright and other proprietary notices contained therein.
> You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the content posted by you on or through the Web Site or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth below, and (ii) the Posting of your content does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person.
> ...


Hi Chrissy, thanks for giving us a place to start.

I (and many of us, probably) wouldn't agree to the part in blue. However, I'm not sure why VS should need to remove any such information from THIS forum, if the poster doesn't agree to its use elsewhere. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I couldn't agree to the part in red. If VS sticks to the TOS, there should be no reason to absolve them of guilt. If they DON'T, there is no reason why we should give up the right to recourse.

I will tell you what's important to me:

I have no problem with VS having permanent non/exclusive rights to materials for use HERE ON THIS FORUM. I do not agree to ANY other use without express, prior, written permission. Terms of such use, especially selling to another entity, would be on a negotiated basis.

Let's face it, if a dog food company wants a photo, they'd probably rather pay a fee for a high rez version anyway. Likewise, even if it's for promoting this site, the maker should have the right to agree or not, as they choose. There are So-o-o many cute dog photos on this site, that if one person declines, I'm sure they can find someone else to say, "yes", and be THRILLED to have their dog's face on advertising of one sort or another.


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

I think that post was interpreted incorrectly.

My understanding, and maybe this could be written into the TOS, is this:

As a poster, I can remove my own content at will. Whether it be text within a post, a photo, a video, whatever.

But, as a poster, I cannot remove anything YOU post. If you post something that I find hurtful, offensive, whatever, I need to contact the administrator. The administrator will then decide if the material in question stays or goes.

If the administrator leaves the questionable material, I cannot go in and delete it at will (since it was not my material to begin with). If the administrator removes the questionable material, the original poster basically has no recourse, other than re-posting and potentially getting banned.


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## LilyMyLove (Jul 11, 2009)

I don't think its misinterpreted as trying to delete someone else's material. He says:

_"You cannot just post anything you want and expect to have it deleted at YOUR convenience. It doesn't work that way.

In the same manner that when you speak something in person to someone, if you make a mistake about it, you cannot just say, "oops, I take that back" and pretend as if it didn't happen. This is why you always need to consider what you write on the internet BEFORE you post it, whether it's here or on FB or on any publicly viewable site. This goes for pictures, videos or anything of that matter."
_


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

krandall said:


> Hi Chrissy, thanks for giving us a place to start.
> 
> I (and many of us, probably) wouldn't agree to the part in blue. However, I'm not sure why VS should need to remove any such information from THIS forum, if the poster doesn't agree to its use elsewhere. That doesn't make any sense to me.
> 
> ...


I didn't add the last sentence in the part in red, that is from the TOS on one of the other forums. I posted it as a jumping board as you said 

"I have no problem with VS having permanent non/exclusive rights to materials for use HERE ON THIS FORUM. I do not agree to ANY other use without express, prior, written permission. Terms of such use, especially selling to another entity, would be on a negotiated basis."

That's what the blue is for, it gives protection to us and says they have to get our permission first before using anything. I put the part about them removing it so that it gives them something to and if they did try to start grabbing and using things people would probably start removing them anyway. It's like a back up for us, we say no and the item in question goes away and is off the table (so to speak). Maybe it should say they can then remove it not that it will be removed. It's just a jumping off point  I am at work and edited this in like 5 minutes  Either way, I just wanted to put some language in about getting permission before using anything (which honestly I doubt they would ever try as you said about the dog food comment).


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

OK, how about this:



Gizmo'sMom said:


> How about:
> 
> By posting/sending a message in any public electronic forum on the Web Site, you agree to have that message along with your name and/or user name posted for public viewing here. VerticalScope Inc. may ask at any time to use what you have posted here in other promotional and advertising materials and on other VerticalScope Inc. web sites, with or without compensation. Consent is voluntary, if you decline the posting will will not be used by VerticalScope, Inc., and no retaliatory action will be taken. HavaneseForum.com does not undertake to necessarily post every submission. All messages that are posted here represent the opinions of the individuals or organizations posting those messages, and do not express the ideas or opinions of HavaneseForum.com or VerticalScope Inc. You may copy the posted messages for personal use, but redistribution in any way requires the written permission of HavaneseForum.com and the user. In consideration of this authorization, you agree that any copy you make of any message(s) located on this web site shall retain all copyright and other proprietary notices contained therein.
> You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the content posted by you on or through the Web Site or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth below, and (ii) the Posting of your content does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person.
> ...


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

Just removed the duplicate (wills) from kudos02's post: 

By posting/sending a message in any public electronic forum on the Web Site, you agree to have that message along with your name and/or user name posted for public viewing here. VerticalScope Inc. may ask at any time to use what you have posted here in other promotional and advertising materials and on other VerticalScope Inc. web sites, with or without compensation. Consent is voluntary, if you decline the posting will not be used by VerticalScope, Inc., and no retaliatory action will be taken. HavaneseForum.com does not undertake to necessarily post every submission. All messages that are posted here represent the opinions of the individuals or organizations posting those messages, and do not express the ideas or opinions of HavaneseForum.com or VerticalScope Inc. You may copy the posted messages for personal use, but redistribution in any way requires the written permission of HavaneseForum.com and the user. In consideration of this authorization, you agree that any copy you make of any message(s) located on this web site shall retain all copyright and other proprietary notices contained therein. 
You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the content posted by you on or through the Web Site or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth below, and (ii) the Posting of your content does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. 
You own all of the content and information you post on HavaneseForum.com. You agree to grant to HavaneseForum.com a non exclusive, royalty free, worldwide, perpetual license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, sublicense, create derivative works of, publicly display, publish and perform any materials and other information you submit to any public areas, chat rooms, bulletin boards, newsgroups or forums of HavaneseForum.com or which you provide by email or any other means to HavaneseForum.com and in any media now known or hereafter developed. Further, you grant HavaneseForum.com the right to use your name and or user name in connection with the submitted materials and other information as well as in connection with all advertising, marketing and promotional material related thereto, together with use on any other VerticalScope Inc. web sites. Before use of any materials or information VerticalScope Inc. will notify the user. Consent is voluntary, if you decline the posting will not be used by VerticalScope, Inc., and no retaliatory action will be taken. 
In order to maintain an informative and valuable service that meets the needs of the users of the Web Site and avoids the harm that can result from disseminating statements that are false, malicious, in violation of the rights of others, or otherwise harmful, it is necessary to establish the following rules to protect against abuse.


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

Doh! Thanks for that....


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

NP I do it all the time  (typos that is, not changing things LOL)


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Am I understanding correctly that forum members are writing the TOS?


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Not the entire thing. Just the part about the ownership of the content that was unclear in the original TOS.


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## arlene (Jul 28, 2007)

Yungster said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I will say this to close: *We reserve the right to remove/leave whatever content you post onto this site.* This is not up for discussion. You have to remember that the internet is a form of communication that is no different than speech, writing on paper or other forms of communication. You cannot just post anything you want and expect to have it deleted at YOUR convenience. It doesn't work that way.
> 
> In the same manner that when you speak something in person to someone, if you make a mistake about it, you cannot just say, "oops, I take that back" and pretend as if it didn't happen. This is why you always need to consider what you write on the internet BEFORE you post it, whether it's here or on FB or on any publicly viewable site. This goes for pictures, videos or anything of that matter.


I know of no other site on the internet where the person who posts is not permitted to later edit or delete the contents of what they posted. I truly hope that it is not your intention to remove that right from anyone who continues to post on this site.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

arlene said:


> I know of no other site on the internet where the person who posts is not permitted to later edit or delete the contents of what they posted. I truly hope that it is not your intention to remove that right from anyone who continues to post on this site.


That seems to be very one sided because I am sure if I post something that vertical scope doesn't like it would be edited or deleted immediately.


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## arlene (Jul 28, 2007)

ama0722 said:


> That seems to be very one sided because I am sure if I post something that vertical scope doesn't like it would be edited or deleted immediately.


Moderators and administrators on the sites that I frequent have the right to modify and / or remove any post on the site . . .

Posters on the sites that I frequent have the right to modify / delete their own posts at any time.

I simply want to clarify that if I post something, I will have the right to modify and/or delete it.

(We still have the right to edit our posts - is this going to change?)


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Arlene, that's my question too.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I found out that I cananot edit a post I made last year. I couldn't delete or edit the thread about the water bottle stands my husband makes. That may be a long standing policy but I never knew it. If I had known, I would never have posted about them in the first place.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

We use to be able to edit any post we created, I have had to do it many times because my fingers are slower then what my mind is telling them to type! LOL

This is something that is a big deal to most and I would hope that Yung would make sure that any member who posts can edit or delete there post. If it is not up for discussion, then that means the trust isn't there either on both sides.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

I don't want any pictures, videos, stories, or posts I share on this forum to be used without MY permission.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Kathy said:


> I don't want any pictures, videos, stories, or posts I share on this forum to be used without MY permission.


Ditto!


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

arlene said:


> I know of no other site on the internet where the person who posts is not permitted to later edit or delete the contents of what they posted. I truly hope that it is not your intention to remove that right from anyone who continues to post on this site.


I frequent several other forums and it's the same as here. After a certain period of time, you are no longer able to edit old posts. Not sure why, but who cares? If it's a big deal to you, you can request that a moderator or administrator remove the post.

As for deleting threads, I have never, ever been on a single forum on which you can delete the threads you have created. You can edit your posts within that thread to remove all the content, but you cannot delete the thread as that would be deleting not only the content that you added, but deleting other peoples' content as well.

The above are both extremely common practices of online forums. I'm pretty sure that these are the default settings for vBulletin forums, though it's been quite awhile since I ran or moderated a forum.

I guess I have to agree with Yung. Don't post what you don't want other people to see...think before you post. And like I said earlier, if something is a really big deal to you, then you can shoot a PM to mod/admin to have it removed/edited.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Yung - I would like to know what the policy is regarding photos that are not uploaded to this site, but rather linked with


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Galaxie, if I'm correct, I am thinking you are referring to sites like photobucket or flickr. If so, that is not our are to control. I don't personally use other photo sharing sites but I believe that once you remove the image from that site, it "kills" any link made to the image in question. If this is what you are referring to, then we have no say in this matter.


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## arlene (Jul 28, 2007)

galaxie said:


> I frequent several other forums and it's the same as here. After a certain period of time, you are no longer able to edit old posts. Not sure why, but who cares? If it's a big deal to you, you can request that a moderator or administrator remove the post.
> 
> As for deleting threads, I have never, ever been on a single forum on which you can delete the threads you have created. You can edit your posts within that thread to remove all the content, but you cannot delete the thread as that would be deleting not only the content that you added, but deleting other peoples' content as well.
> 
> ...


I think it must have something to do with how the forum is set up because there are some forums that I frequent where I can modify or delete the content of what I post. On those forums where I am just a user, I cannot delete an entire thread.

Yungster, are you going to add the pet guide banner on this site?


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Yungster said:


> Galaxie, if I'm correct, I am thinking you are referring to sites like photobucket or flickr. If so, that is not our are to control. I don't personally use other photo sharing sites but I believe that once you remove the image from that site, it "kills" any link made to the image in question. If this is what you are referring to, then we have no say in this matter.


Perfect. I link most of my photos from Facebook, so the part of the TOS dealing with images likely will be a moot point for me. Good to know!


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Kathy said:


> *We use to be able to edit any post we created*,


and when you went into the post you could delete it if you wanted to.

I wonder when this got changed?

Yung,
Do you know when this got changed?


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## Suuske747 (May 9, 2007)

kudo2u said:


> I think that post was interpreted incorrectly.
> 
> My understanding, and maybe this could be written into the TOS, is this:
> 
> ...


Right now, you can't remove EVERYthing you've posted, after a year there's no more edit button, I think you'd be able to edit posts posted at anytime!


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## Suuske747 (May 9, 2007)

galaxie said:


> I frequent several other forums and it's the same as here. After a certain period of time, you are no longer able to edit old posts. Not sure why, but who cares? If it's a big deal to you, you can request that a moderator or administrator remove the post.
> 
> As for deleting threads, I have never, ever been on a single forum on which you can delete the threads you have created. You can edit your posts within that thread to remove all the content, but you cannot delete the thread as that would be deleting not only the content that you added, but deleting other peoples' content as well.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your pm, I will reply asap.
However I disagree, sometimes you post things in a wave of emotion, or you evolve personally and feel it is no longer applicable and realise you want to remove it, you should be able to. You should be able to correct your "mistakes".


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

I must be way too simple because I don't understand the problems people are having with this ownership change. We all know that what is out on the internet is up for grabs. Even photos that are "owned" and have a watermark on them can still be copied, emailed, whatever. So we're careful in what we say and post.

But that was true before the new ownership. So what is different now? As I read the posts I get confused because it seems I should be upset but I don't exactly know why.

Just exactly what is different now that wasn't before. Is it ads that will begin? I don't mind ads. Is it questionable ads? I think I can discern a bad ad and a good ad. 

I truly don't understand. Explain.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Nancy,
You must not have read the TOS when they were first posted last week. What bothered me was they stated that basically anything posted here became the property of VS and they could use it, sell it, remove it, etc as THEY pleased. 

Also, just because something is posted on the internet doesn't mean anyone can use it. There are laws now protecting people.


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Which is the purpose of this thread. The TOS we originally had put up was a standard one we use. The language of the TOS was a concern for users so we're agreeing to rewrite it for this community. Can we please go back to the original thread topic and focus on getting a TOS written that is satisfactory for the community?


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Yungster said:


> Which is the purpose of this thread. The TOS we originally had put up was a standard one we use. The language of the TOS was a concern for users so we're agreeing to rewrite it for this community. Can we please go back to the original thread topic and focus on getting a TOS written that is satisfactory for the community?


You betcha Yung, but I was answering a question, something we do a lot on this forum if you hadn't noticed. I wasn't being rude, just giving facts.

You should know what the people on this forum want in the TOS so why don't you present us with something both your company and those of us that had issue with might agree on? I am sure the VS has attorneys at their disposal for this type of thing.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Kathy said:


> You should know what the people on this forum want in the TOS so why don't you present us with something both your company and those of us that had issue with might agree on? I am sure the VS has attorneys at their disposal for this type of thing.


Yung, I am highlighting this particular portion because it resonates exactly in line with another peeve that I read a couple of days ago. Let me explain.

When this forum started, many of us offered to help (technically, financially, timewise, etc.) and the owner graciously declined and kept the forum free for us. It wasn't perfect, but there wasn't really anything for us to do to contribute (although yes, she did bring on one moderator from among the regular thread contributors).

*Now that the forum has been sold to a business, that specific business is asking the regular members to do take on two different tasks for you. The very company that is going to make money by owning our "home." * You've already asked us to be the ones to police the ads that will be placed on the forum and then alert VS as to any problems that arise out of inappropriate ads, and now you're asking us to write the TOS... and redirecting our posts to get back to that writing.

How about if Vertiscope actually take ownership of the ads? How about if VS get their attorneys to wrote the TOU? We've already been giving our input. We shouldn't have to do the work that will earn your income.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Havtahava said:


> We shouldn't have to do the work that will earn your income.


Very well said Kimberly


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Waiting on Yung to give us a new TOS from everyone's suggestions . . . eace:


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Havtahava said:


> Yung, I am highlighting this particular portion because it resonates exactly in line with another peeve that I read a couple of days ago. Let me explain.
> 
> When this forum started, many of us offered to help (technically, financially, timewise, etc.) and the owner graciously declined and kept the forum free for us. It wasn't perfect, but there wasn't really anything for us to do to contribute (although yes, she did bring on one moderator from among the regular thread contributors).
> 
> ...


Kimberly, I am NOT asking the community to write the TOS. Please go back and read the original post. I'm asking the community to make suggestions on ONE section of the TOS that was of major concern to the majority of users who saw the original TOS (including yourself).

The TOS encompasses more than just this section but it was this section that users found hard to accept. It's a shame that you are viewing this as us trying to make you do the work. It's not at all the case. Did not even cross our mind.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Yungster said:


> Kimberly, I am NOT asking the community to write the TOS. Please go back and read the original post. I'm asking the community to make suggestions on ONE section of the TOS that was of major concern to the majority of users who saw the original TOS (including yourself).
> 
> The TOS encompasses more than just this section but it was this section that users found hard to accept. It's a shame that you are viewing this as us trying to make you do the work. It's not at all the case. Did not even cross our mind.


Yung, why aren't YOU rewriting that section based on the suggestions made here? There are plenty of suggestions so far. I think what Kimberly (and many of us) are saying is that after the suggestions given above *VerticalScope* is the one that should be rewriting that section of the TOS, not the members. We aren't lawyers, we don't work for you and we most certainly aren't making a profit off of this as you are.


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Let me clarify this one more time. We will obviously be writing the final TOS with our team here. What this thread here is for is to give the community an opportunity to offer their input on that one section of the TOS pertaining to the ownership of content. If no one wants to offer suggestions on how to word it, that's ok. If some people want to offer suggestions on how to word it, that's ok too. The whole point of this exercise isn't to pass off the work to you guys. If you somehow thought that was the point, I apologize.


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

We will take the suggestions already made in here and include them into the TOS. We'll leave this thread open until Wednesday August 18th, 2010 (4pm EST). After that, the thread will be closed and WE will put together the final draft of the TOS using the suggestions made in this thread.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

This thread might need to stay open to allow everyone to comment on the new TOS unless you start a new thread. There are so many threads already about the change of ownership that it is getting confusing. We realize at some point it has to get finalized, but everyone on here has always been open to new ideas and this forum has always been evolving to make it better and better for everyone. The new "bump in the road" needs to be smoothed over to the agreement of the majority, and sometimes someone may not get on for a week or two if they are out of town, etc. Just hoping to give everyone time to see this and voice an opinion.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Except that I think that those of us who have responded with ideas have all had about the same concerns and intent. I know people go away, but I don't think we can get back to business as usual on this forum (I know _I_ can't) until this piece is ironed out. I wouldn't want to put off the new TOS for a couple more weeks.


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

krandall said:


> Except that I think that those of us who have responded with ideas have all had about the same concerns and intent. I know people go away, but I don't think we can get back to business as usual on this forum (I know _I_ can't) until this piece is ironed out. I wouldn't want to put off the new TOS for a couple more weeks.


I agree. This is why I put Wednesday as a deadline. If more time is needed, we can extend it but let's try to aim to give as many people a chance to provide their feedback by Wednesday.


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## Pattie (Jun 25, 2008)

I don't want any pictures, videos, stories, or posts I share on this forum to be used without my permission. Period.


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## Pattie (Jun 25, 2008)

In fact, I want to remove any and all pictures of my dogs and I do not know how to do accomplish this. Today is the first day I have accessed the Forum since the National and I would appreciate someone telling me how to remove my embedded photos and videos. 
Once I have accomplished that task, I will leave the forum and come back later, perhaps.


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## Pattie (Jun 25, 2008)

I've been able to remove my photos -- thanks to Kathy's post, which I just read. I will only be lurking for the next while until I feel comfortable again.


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## ls-indy (Apr 10, 2008)

I hope we can get this ironed out before too many more photos or posts are removed......


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

I removed all my pictures...makes me sad, 4 years of pictures of my furbabies. And I hate the avatar pictures that are gone, but I understand. 

I will not post alot if we can not edited it or deleted it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lynn said:


> I removed all my pictures...makes me sad, 4 years of pictures of my furbabies. And I hate the avatar pictures that are gone, but I understand.
> 
> I will not post alot if we can not edited it or deleted it.


I haven't had any problem at all editing RECENT posts. It seems that there is a glitch with very old (over one year) posts. But honestly, do any of us know whether they could edit year-old posts before the sale of the forum? Certainly I never tried it. This may simply be something in the forum software, and have NOTHING to do with VS.

I am being cautious at this point too, but at the same time, it doesn't make any sense to accuse them of doing things they haven't touched, that we have been living with all along.

Edited to add: I just posted a test message and had absolutely no trouble deleting it. Did it the same way we always have. And, obviously, I was able to edit this post.:biggrin1:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I don't like that you can't edit/delete posts after a year, is there any way to change that in the settings?


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

The editing options can be changed once we get the TOS hammered out. For me, the ability to edit is a separate topic from what we're discussing in terms of the TOS. Is that ok?


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

krandall said:


> I haven't had any problem at all editing RECENT posts. It seems that there is a glitch with very old (over one year) posts. But honestly, do any of us know whether they could edit year-old posts before the sale of the forum? Certainly I never tried it. This may simply be something in the forum software, and have NOTHING to do with VS.
> 
> I am being cautious at this point too, but at the same time, it doesn't make any sense to accuse them of doing things they haven't touched, that we have been living with all along.
> 
> Edited to ad: I just posted a test message and had absolutely no trouble deleting it. Did it the same way we always have. And, obviously, I was able to edit this post.:biggrin1:


Karen,
Before you could edit any post at any time. It had nothing to do with a year. VS and Yung has told me their software allows 30 days to edit your posts.

I talked with Yung about this because on the quilt thread I go back and edit the first couple pages over and over again as sign ups are added or someone can not fulfill their block and even use it to tell them something important or check them off as blocks are received. I realize this would not effect most people (being able to edit your posts) but it sure does on that particular thread.

Yung is gonna work with me about it--


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Julie said:


> Karen,
> Before you could edit any post at any time. It had nothing to do with a year. VS and Yung has told me their software allows 30 days to edit your posts.
> 
> I talked with Yung about this because on the quilt thread I go back and edit the first couple pages over and over again as sign ups are added or someone can not fulfill their block and even use it to tell them something important or check them off as blocks are received. I realize this would not effect most people (being able to edit your posts) but it sure does on that particular thread.
> ...


We have other threads that require updating the first post, most of our book club or reading suggestion threads, I know I did the first one and I think Missy did the second one, alot like the quilt thread, we added info to the first post.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Julie said:


> Karen,
> Before you could edit any post at any time. It had nothing to do with a year. VS and Yung has told me their software allows 30 days to edit your posts.
> 
> I talked with Yung about this because on the quilt thread I go back and edit the first couple pages over and over again as sign ups are added or someone can not fulfill their block and even use it to tell them something important or check them off as blocks are received. I realize this would not effect most people (being able to edit your posts) but it sure does on that particular thread.
> ...


One month seems WAY to short a time frame to be able to edit posts. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that this was a "glitch". If they did it on purpose, SHAME ON THEM!


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

krandall said:


> I haven't had any problem at all editing RECENT posts. It seems that there is a glitch with very old (over one year) posts. But honestly, do any of us know whether they could edit year-old posts before the sale of the forum? Certainly I never tried it. This may simply be something in the forum software, and have NOTHING to do with VS.
> 
> I am being cautious at this point too, but at the same time, it doesn't make any sense to accuse them of doing things they haven't touched, that we have been living with all along.


I am *NOT* accusing VS of anything! I just stated that I will not post much on this forum if I do not have the option of editing of deleting my postings of any date.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lynn said:


> I am *NOT* accusing VS of anything! I just stated that I will not post much on this forum if I do not have the option of editing of deleting my postings of any date.


I didn't mean that you had. A number of people have mentioned the issue, and I just wanted to find out how bad the problem is. Now we have it from the horse's mouth (Yungster) that anything older than 1 month you can't edit or delete. That's definitely a new policy, put in place by VS, and as far as I'm concerned, completely unacceptable.


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Hi everyone,

Thank you to everyone who has contributed suggestions for the TOS. We have reviewed it and will be releasing a TOS in the next few days.

I think we are all in agreement of what needs to be clarified and I'm optismistic that you guys will be in agreement with what you see. I know I said I would leave this thread open until Wednesday afternoon but the topic has veered way off course. I apologize in advance. You are still welcome to send me via PM any suggestions you have in helping word the TOS. Even though we are finalizing it now, we can always amend it if there's something you suggest that we may have overlooked.


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