# growing pains or bad training or what???



## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

it seems lately Charley has become a bit - how shall I say this? I guess he's developed a mind of his own. sometimes he's just such a nuisance (where did my little angel go?). I suppose this has been going on for about a month. he's also become quite strong and has started jumping alot. wow! he loves to jump up on his hind legs. if I put something on the countertops and he wants it he'll keep jumping up to try to get it. I say no jump and he stops but then starts again 15 seconds later. Everything on my kitchen counters has to be pushed back at least 7-8 inches otherwise I'm afraid he might reach it. I can't seem to stop this jumping. he never used to jump and now he's always tring to get at something.

also, he's driving me nuts with scratching at the door all the time. even if he's gone out already. I'll let him go out and then he comes back in 3 minutes and then 2 minutes later he scratches to go out again and this can go on for hours. how do I stop this behavior? the last day or so I've been thinking, okay you get to go out once. and I'm trying to ignore the door scratching or I try to busy him with something else but this just seems crazy. there has to be another way. what am I doing wrong? 

Is there something I need to be doing? we've trained so much over the past year and lately I just wonder if I've been doing it correctly at all??
Help!!!


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

oh, I forgot to say that Charley just turned a year old.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

I was just reading another post about a dog becoming very vocal and forgot to mention that about Charley. He whines quite a bit lately and I dont' know what he wants. For example, He'll scratch and whine at the cabinet where his food is kept. HE NEVER did this before. He acts like he's hungry alot but he is well fed and the right weight. He whines other times and I dont' know what he wants. :frusty: I hate to complain like this but we seem to be developing some problems.


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## Gabs (Apr 15, 2012)

I'll be watching this post - gabby (a year & a half) started jumping up too to see what's on the counters - I'm thinking I need to train her "off" but I don't know how to start.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It sounds like Charley is mostly being an adolescent, and testing the boundaries. I don't think you've done anything "wrong" in your training. He's just the equivalent of a teenage boy right now. I found that Kodi was at his most demanding between 8 and 18 months... sort of right where you are. He didn't scratch at the door, but he did a lot of jumping when he wanted something, and the demand barking drove me to distraction!!!

Remember that it's MUCH easier to teach them to "do" something than it is to teach them "not to do" something. So try to come up with replacement behaviors for the things that drive you most crazy. For the others, do your best to TOTALLY ignore them. That's the best way to get them to stop, although you are likely to get an "extinction burst" (they might do it a LOT more!!!) for a short period before totally giving up.

I'm not quite sure what to do about the door scratching. I'd hate to have a dog scratching up my door, but it's great that he lets you know when he needs to go out. I'm not sure how you differentiate between the potty runs and the times he just wants you to open the door. You sure don't want to guess wrong and cause him to have an accident in the house!

Kodi didn't develop his "signal" to go out until he was past that very demanding phase, so I never had to sort that piece out!:biggrin1:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

My first thought is he is telling you something like he is bored. Do you take him on long walks? Mine have been cooped up more than they ever have and I have noticed a big difference in their behavior. I have a bell on my door and a fenced in back yard so if the bell rings I just let them out. At least that would save your door. Maddie is my jumper I swear she could jump 3 feet. Barking has been a problem. I have been working on it for over a year. Mine are about 2 1/2


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## FancyNancy (Oct 7, 2009)

I'm going to offer some advise, but I'm not an expert - just someone who has been through some of the same things and has successfully gotten my dog to do what I want him to do most of the time. And probably many people on here will yell at me for the advise I am about to give. 

All I can say is that I had an AMAZING trainer (he trains search and rescue dogs) and this is what my trainer suggested. Second, I have a wonderful dog who is extremely happy, well behaved, and is never annoying in any way. 

This technique is for the most dangerous behaviors - ones which can put your dog in danger if you don't get them to stop (and this includes trying to grab things off the counter because there could be something lethal to him up there). For Henry, this was lurching on the leash to chase a car everytime one went by when we were walking, and running away from me when I gave the COME command. I need him to obey me when I say COME and STAY because I need to be able to protect him if/when he is in danger.

I used this technique only twice in his life - at about a year old. And it worked. I held him by his scruff (not shaking or lifting - just holding him still) , looked him sternly in the eye, and commanded (yelled actually) NO CHASE (or NO JUMP) very loudly and very sternly. Then I released him and ignored him for awhile. As I said, I only did this twice in his whole life. The rest was positive reinforcement. But I will tell you, my dog COMES when he is called 90% of the time and he never tries to chase a car anymore. He also knows he has no choice but to obey me. That is for his protection and my sanity. 

Our dogs are very soft dogs. They don't need you to be heavy handed in training. That is why I only had to use the technique twice. But sometimes they need some strong signs to show them where the boundaries are. Henry did.

Again, lots of people will disagree with me. Guys - dont beat me up too much please!!! I am only saying what worked for me.


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

Charley sounds exactly like Maccabee. They must be brothers. Lol.


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## FancyNancy (Oct 7, 2009)

I forgot to say -about the scratching at the door. You dont want to stop this necessarily because you want the dog to communicate when he needs to go out. When Henry does the scratching thing (he does the same thing as your dog), I put him out and I dont let him in for 15 minutes or so. It isnt a cure - he still does it - but it might help.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

HannahBearsMom said:


> Charley sounds exactly like Maccabee. They must be brothers. Lol.


 That's cute I was going to say its all Toms faultound: Just kidding.


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## Bidik (Aug 23, 2012)

I was just about to say Charley is just like Cora but then I read he is 1 year old. Cora is only. 6.5 months old. So the big show is yet to come?:jaw:


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

thanks for your advice. not sure about grabbing him by the scruff. I don't want that one to backfire on me. glad to hear maccabbee is the same - maybe it's an age thing then. 
but Charley has become relentless at times. And yes, I suspect he is a bit bored. It's winter, it's COLD out, been very wet and the walks are defineitly shorter than they had been. Also, he's not out playing with his dog buddies like he use to be in the warmer weather. So I agree, I think he is restless. That said, now what??
I think ignoring some of the behaviors is a good idea. For example, the scratching - he gets to go out once. If he's done his business maybe the next scratch I will just ignore. I've been responding to his scratching and feel like a doorman. So in a sense I suppose I have trained him to do this. Well, now I need to untrain him. No more doorman. If I need to I will just leave the room. I hope he will take the hint??!
The jumping to the countertops. That one feels a bit dangerous. At times, he went to grab a towel that had a heavy bowl on it. If the towel comes down so will the bowl on his head. Perhaps I should put a soda can with pennies in it - allow him to pull the towel - the soda can will come flying and be noisy and voila! Maybe it will scare him into not doing it again. Is that a good or bad idea?
The whining - sometimes I whine back. He just tilts his head and looks at me weird.
The jumping on my legs with a ball in his mouth wanting me to throw the bowl. When this first happened I thought it was cute that he was trying to hand me the ball. But the behavior has progressed to e.g., while i'm washing dishes, he's on my legs with the ball yada yada and it doesn't stop. My fault again. For now on I will ignore this behavior. I realize that at some point I reinforced it and now Charley is making me nuts!!! I will try to undo this. 
And the leash pulling - we were so good for a while. Not sure what happened. Have to look at this again. I suppose I'm allowing him to pull which actually trains him to do it. That stopping everytime he pulls so that he learns that to go forward there needs to be a loosh leash - I find that so challenging at times. It means that we would probably take an hour just to go down the street!!! What does everyone else do about this?


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## FancyNancy (Oct 7, 2009)

well one thing you can say about Charlie is - He's VERY smart!!!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

just so happens both these topics are covered by the same guy,

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1034 for counter surfing

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1171 for eliminating the unwanted trips to just play. (used for bell training)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> thanks for your advice. not sure about grabbing him by the scruff. I don't want that one to backfire on me.


I agree. Not a great idea. It can work, but it can also backfire.



Charleysmom said:


> but Charley has become relentless at times. And yes, I suspect he is a bit bored. It's winter, it's COLD out, been very wet and the walks are defineitly shorter than they had been. Also, he's not out playing with his dog buddies like he use to be in the warmer weather. So I agree, I think he is restless. That said, now what??


Kodi's first winter was the hardest too. I could have called him relentless too.. I did several things. I kept up the classes, so we always had training things to work on at home, I bought the DVD "Crate Games" by Susan Garrett, and we did a LOT of crate games practice. It's not all abou teaching a dog to like their crate... It also teaches them self control and they can burn a lot of energy with some of the exercises. I also bought this toy called a "flirt pole" (you can find it on Amazon, among other places) it is essentially a toy on a string, attached to a long stick. You wiggle the stick, and the dog chases the toy. They LOVE it, and you can burn a HUGE amount of energy quite quickly and in a fairly small area. All theses things helped me keep Kodi worn out enough that he didn't drive me crazy that first winter!:biggrin1:



Charleysmom said:


> The jumping to the countertops. That one feels a bit dangerous. At times, he went to grab a towel that had a heavy bowl on it. If the towel comes down so will the bowl on his head. Perhaps I should put a soda can with pennies in it - allow him to pull the towel - the soda can will come flying and be noisy and voila! Maybe it will scare him into not doing it again. Is that a good or bad idea?


I think it's a great idea. I'd set it up and see what happened several times, in slightly different ways. "Natural consequences" can be very powerful as long as you use something you know can't really hurt him. Just be careful to be far enough away, and say or do NOTHING, so he doesn't associate it with you... For two reasons. You don't want him to become afraid of YOU, and conversely, you don't want the message to be, "I can only pull things off the counter if she's not around.":biggrin1:



Charleysmom said:


> The whining - sometimes I whine back. He just tilts his head and looks at me weird.


THAT is one I'd totally ignore. I think whining back might encourage him.



Charleysmom said:


> The jumping on my legs with a ball in his mouth wanting me to throw the bowl. When this first happened I thought it was cute that he was trying to hand me the ball. But the behavior has progressed to e.g., while i'm washing dishes, he's on my legs with the ball yada yada and it doesn't stop. My fault again. For now on I will ignore this behavior. I realize that at some point I reinforced it and now Charley is making me nuts!!! I will try to undo this.


I tried putting jumping on my leg on "ignore" for a L O N G time without it slowing down. This is one place where I found teaching a replacement behavior VERY effective. At times where he might be tempted to jump on me (in Kodi's case, it's mostly in the bathroom for some reason) I put him in a down, and make him wait, before he gets a chance to get himself all worked up. In the beginning, he needed lots of reminders and lots of reinforecement cookies to stay down as long as I needed him to. Now he will stay down until I release him, at which time he DASHES into the kitchen to get the cookie he knows I will give him for holding the stay.



Charleysmom said:


> And the leash pulling - we were so good for a while. Not sure what happened. Have to look at this again. I suppose I'm allowing him to pull which actually trains him to do it. That stopping everytime he pulls so that he learns that to go forward there needs to be a loosh leash - I find that so challenging at times. It means that we would probably take an hour just to go down the street!!! What does everyone else do about this?


It just takes time and persistence, unfortunately. If you aren't already using an anti-pull harness like the Sense-ible, I'd steongly suggest trying that. It made a HUGE difference in how much Kodi tried to pull when he was younger.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

This is all such excellent advice. I'm learning so much here. It's great how you distinguish "natural consequence" from ignoring from replacement behavior. So much better than just saying "no" 1000 times a day. A dog learns to shut that out. Anyway, so far, some of this is working. With the door scratching, I respond to Charley once. If he needs to do potty he has the opportunity. After that, I've been ignoring the scratching and doing a replacement behavior like, "get the toy" or "place". Today I was able to distract him and so we'll see what happens tom'row.

I still need to read the article on Countersurfing. Great term.

Also, before getting Susan Garrett's book, wondering if you can give me an example of a crate game? At this point we do some self control exercises in the crate but I'm sure Garrett has some good ideas.

Yes, first winter is tough. I hope it gets easier. It snowed yesterday and the roads were thoroughly salted so Charley was limited to front yard today. Fortunately a couple of his friends came by and he was able to play. But it's just not like the warmer months. I do try to wear him out with tunnel games, catch, fetch, pushups, rollover , tugging, the wiggle and all sorts of fun things. We do have quite a good time. But more games would be great.

We use the Premier no pull harness. It works somewhat. Once he's pulling I can redirect him but he is still so often out in front. He does respond to "side" but I suppose it's me - I get tired of having to keep repeating it. And he will come to side. It's just - how do I get him to stay there?

By the way, I'm afraid Charley is no longer interested in the litter box. And I need to figure out how to get him back into it. Any ideas? Even if I am out ALL day he will wait until I get home to go outside.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

davetgabby said:


> just so happens both these topics are covered by the same guy,
> 
> http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1034 for counter surfing
> 
> http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1171 for eliminating the unwanted trips to just play. (used for bell training)


interesting article on countersurfing. for Charley, he usually wants to steal towels, paper and toy etc. It's not usually food (I'm vegetarian) that sends him jumping. Just a kitchen towel makes him nuts. Placemats. I'm not sure about the part about what's reinforcing his behavior. Is it the presence of towels? There is no meat in my house. Anyway, we will work on go to place. Actually Charley is excellent at that. And he'll stay and wait in his crate. I will work on increasing the duration. But I will need to reward him. Will save some kibble to use throughout the day. thanks for the article.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> Also, before getting Susan Garrett's book, wondering if you can give me an example of a crate game? At this point we do some self control exercises in the crate but I'm sure Garrett has some good ideas.


Ummm, I haven't even looked at the DVD in a while. There are a LOT of progressive exercises, ranging from simply going into and out of the crate to using the crate as a target in agility work and many other things. I'm not sure I can give you a single example that would show the value of the DVD. Her "Success with One Jump" is great too, but more an outdoor sort of thing unless you have LOTS of room indoors.



Charleysmom said:


> We use the Premier no pull harness. It works somewhat. Once he's pulling I can redirect him but he is still so often out in front. He does respond to "side" but I suppose it's me - I get tired of having to keep repeating it. And he will come to side. It's just - how do I get him to stay there?


Remember, you shouldn't really "redirect" him, nor should you tell him "side." If he pulls, you simply stop dead until HE remembers where he should be! Also, is there a specific reason he must remain at your side? I have a looser criteria for Kodi on casual walks. He must maintain the same general direction as me, and I don't want him to pull. Other than that, I don't mind if he drops behind for a second to sniff something, or takes the lead as we are walking. (his preferred position on walks, actually!) BUT, if he pulls AT ALL, he needs to be back at my side, with a shorter leash. This is where he is least likely to get distracted or over-excited. When he's calm again, he is allowed to have more freedom. While he clearly understands these rules, and mostly abides by them now, he IS still a dog, and things like a squirrel or rabbit can catch his attention and make him "forget". These are the times the harness is a great reminder.

It is very important to me that Kodi understand that there are times for formal heeling, and times for casual, loose leash walking. It's not good for a dog's neck and back to maintain the formal "heads up" heeling position for long periods of time. When we are not in the ring, I want him to respect my space and not pull, but other than that, I just want us to be able to walk companionably. Even in his preferred position, which is out in front of me, he is completely aware of where I am and what I'm doing, as proven by the fact that he knows which way we are turning at street corners. He can only get this information from me, since we don't go the same way every day!

That said, this understanding between us developed over a LONG period of time, and I'd bet he was closer to 2 before he was really reliable about it. (and he STILL tries to pull more with my DH) The important thing is to decide what your criteria are, and be VERY consistent about reinforcing! BTW, that's another great thing about Susan Garrett's DVD's... they will teach YOU a lot about setting and maintaining criteria, a really important part of dog training. A LOT of the problems people have with dog training is that THEY aren't clear and consistent about their own criteria, so it is very difficult for the dog to learn what the rules of the game are!



Charleysmom said:


> By the way, I'm afraid Charley is no longer interested in the litter box. And I need to figure out how to get him back into it. Any ideas? Even if I am out ALL day he will wait until I get home to go outside.


Kodi went through a period of being unwilling to use the box too. We just made sure it was always available. Over time, he decided on his own that there were times (pouring rain, deep snow) when the litter box was more attractive than the alternative!!! I think I mentioned that yesterday, after the storm, he TRIED to find an "acceptable" spot outside, and finally came in and used his box under protest. It's fine with me if he wants to hold it until I get home. But i want him to KNOW he has an alternative if he needs it. They DO remember!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Toby has actually mellowed out after turning 1. When he was a pup, he was more of a go getter and would NOT cuddle. Now, all he wants is to cuddle (with me only). He is getting on the furninture now, which he did not do before, but only when I am on the furniture and he wants a cuddle. If nobody is on the sofa, he won't even look at it.
He does jump on you when he wants attention or when you get home, I usually ignore him unless he scratches then I firmly tell him no.
He is very obedient and will "get" it quickly when he knows you are upset with his behaviour. Does that make sense?...


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

Charleysmom said:


> This is all such excellent advice. I'm learning so much here. It's great how you distinguish "natural consequence" from ignoring from replacement behavior. So much better than just saying "no" 1000 times a day. A dog learns to shut that out. Anyway, so far, some of this is working. With the door scratching, I respond to Charley once. If he needs to do potty he has the opportunity. After that, I've been ignoring the scratching and doing a replacement behavior like, "get the toy" or "place". Today I was able to distract him and so we'll see what happens tom'row.
> 
> I still need to read the article on Countersurfing. Great term.
> 
> ...


My trainer said to pick a method of potty. She said its confusing to them to give them more than one place to go. Ted has always preferred outside. I had pee pads in his pen but he only ever used them twice. Sounds like yours has made a decision that he also prefers outside.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I've had several friends try to teach me to train on a loose lead. The easiest one for me was walking and saying their name when they looked i clicked and treat. Then we walked again.I think it keeps them from running ahead? I hate to say it but I never did train them to walk nice. I went on most walks off leash I was more into a nice walk than training. Now I have a double leash and they pull me to the next block. After about a half hour they will walk nice.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lise said:


> My trainer said to pick a method of potty. She said its confusing to them to give them more than one place to go. Ted has always preferred outside. I had pee pads in his pen but he only ever used them twice. Sounds like yours has made a decision that he also prefers outside.


The Kings have raised more puppies than anyone I know, and Tom has said a number of times on the forum that among their puppy owners, they people who have the HARDEST time with potty training, and the most accidents are those that insist on the pup ONLY going outdoors.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

As I said before Ted decided he only liked to go outside. I had a peeped in his pen for months and he used it a couple times in the first months. He holds it til we come home when we do go out. I never insisted that he only go outside, he chose it. I think it makes a lot of sense to praise him when he does his business outside. If he were to go on a peeped inside, do I praise him then? Do I then not praise him when he goes on a rug inside? I am one with my trainer in this one. I think whichever method the puppy chooses that also fits into the owners lifestyle is probably the right one.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

With only the greatest respect for Tom!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lise said:


> As I said before Ted decided he only liked to go outside. I had a peeped in his pen for months and he used it a couple times in the first months. He holds it til we come home when we do go out. I never insisted that he only go outside, he chose it. I think it makes a lot of sense to praise him when he does his business outside. If he were to go on a peeped inside, do I praise him then? Do I then not praise him when he goes on a rug inside? I am one with my trainer in this one. I think whichever method the puppy chooses that also fits into the owners lifestyle is probably the right one.


I thought you meant specifically ONLY giving him the one option. That is what Tom has cautioned against. I think MOST of them gravitate to going only outside eventually, given the choice. Certainly that was true with Kodi, and Tom has said it's pretty standard. I've stopped even bothering bringing a litter box when we stay in a hotel... he WILL not use it. So I do ask, if possible, for a low floor, or better yet a room with a slider to lawn for that first thing in the morning pee!:biggrin1:

We have actually had to work hard to maintain Kodi's use of the litter box for emergency times. There are times (upset tummies, blizzards, torrential rain) where "waiting" may not be a viable option. We actually no longer praise for going outside. (except in the snow, where he needs encouragement at the beginning of each snow season) Getting to go is its own reward. We DO praise HEAVILY (and actually give food rewards) for pooping in the litter box, which he is very reluctant to do.

And, of course, we would never praise going on a rug, but I think you knew that.


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## Bax's Mom (Feb 18, 2012)

My guy came to me in Jan 2112, at 15 months old. He has always like a lot of attention. Now close to 27 months old, he has become even more attention seeking. He does a lot of "nosing" things on the coffee table and does "scratching stretches" on furniture. He responds well to the no or uh oh...but not for long!!!! He likes me to chase him all over the house..many times a day! If I try to ignore him he does the little whine, and stares!! I take him on 2... 20-40 min walks a day. I have a large fenced yard...now with 17 in snow! He is very food responsive, but feed and treat games were either too easy or way to frustrating for him. He likes to eat his dinner from his Kong Toy!I give him cubes of frozen Greek Yogurt for treats.
He stayed with Foster Mom in Oct ( +3 dogs),and had many great chases with her latest Hav rescue...so I am thinking of adding another Hav guy. ( He is very social with people and all other dogs.

I guess I am worried that it might be a colossal mistake.
Any Ideas????


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## Bax's Mom (Feb 18, 2012)

BTW, Bax is Mr. January on HRI Calendar!!!


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

I Hav one and that's lots for me


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Bax's Mom said:


> My guy came to me in Jan 2112, at 15 months old. He has always like a lot of attention. Now close to 27 months old, he has become even more attention seeking. He does a lot of "nosing" things on the coffee table and does "scratching stretches" on furniture. He responds well to the no or uh oh...but not for long!!!! He likes me to chase him all over the house..many times a day! If I try to ignore him he does the little whine, and stares!! I take him on 2... 20-40 min walks a day. I have a large fenced yard...now with 17 in snow! He is very food responsive, but feed and treat games were either too easy or way to frustrating for him. He likes to eat his dinner from his Kong Toy!I give him cubes of frozen Greek Yogurt for treats.
> He stayed with Foster Mom in Oct ( +3 dogs),and had many great chases with her latest Hav rescue...so I am thinking of adding another Hav guy. ( He is very social with people and all other dogs.
> 
> I guess I am worried that it might be a colossal mistake.
> Any Ideas????


Lots of people have multiple Havs and thoroughly enjoy it. Most of the dogs seem to get along well. B-U-T, you should get another one for YOU, not for him. There are definitely trade-offs. They won't ALWAYS get along, he will have to share your time with another dog, and expenses and work load automatically double. The people who choose to have multiples mostly seem to think it is worth it, but you need to think it out.

As far as the immediate problem, for Bax's own sake, he needs to learn to occupy himself at least some of the time too. You got him older, so it may take a little more work. But I would get him some great chew things, like moose antlers, flavored Nylabones... whatever he likes, and a few toys like Skinneze or squeaky balls. Then I would start purposely leaving him, either in an ex-pen or gated into an area that he can't get to you. Do it in a kind but matter of fact way. DON'T feel sorry for him. Then start leaving him there for slowly but progressively longer periods. Start really short, like 5 minutes and work up from there.

Another thing to work on is to teach him "place". This is a spot that you choose, that is the place he needs to go and hang out until you release him. It could be an open crate, a dog bed or even an old folded blanket on the floor. Again, start with very short periods at first. This one can be as little as 30 or even 15 seconds to start with. The point is for him to learn that he MUST stay there until you tell him it's OK to leave.

I would do these things with him whether you decide to get another dog or not. They are just things a dog needs to learn. What if you got another dog and that dog got sick and needed to be hospitalized? Bax might be beside himself hif he didn't already know how to entertain himself when necessary.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

krandall said:


> I thought you meant specifically ONLY giving him the one option. That is what Tom has cautioned against. I think MOST of them gravitate to going only outside eventually, given the choice. Certainly that was true with Kodi, and Tom has said it's pretty standard. I've stopped even bothering bringing a litter box when we stay in a hotel... he WILL not use it. So I do ask, if possible, for a low floor, or better yet a room with a slider to lawn for that first thing in the morning pee!:biggrin1:
> 
> We have actually had to work hard to maintain Kodi's use of the litter box for emergency times. There are times (upset tummies, blizzards, torrential rain) where "waiting" may not be a viable option. We actually no longer praise for going outside. (except in the snow, where he needs encouragement at the beginning of each snow season) Getting to go is its own reward. We DO praise HEAVILY (and actually give food rewards) for pooping in the litter box, which he is very reluctant to do.
> 
> And, of course, we would never praise going on a rug, but I think you knew that.


I don't praise Charley for going outside either. No need at this point except when it's freezing cold and he goes very quickly. 
We're still woerking on the other things. Regarding scratching at the door what I've done is reduce the oopportunity and distract him with other things. He gets to scratch once and then we go outisde. After that, it's "place" or "get the toy" or I leave the room. I'm trying to eliminate the possibility so that it becomes a thing of the past. We'll see...so far it's getting better. 
Countersurfing ....just working on down. Fact is Charley seems to love jumping up like a basketball player. He doesn't jump on furniture or on anything else. I've never actually given him the opportunity. But we are working on the jumping. I always use a hand signal and when he's about to jump I stop him. Also, if we're playing fetch, he jumps up on me when he returns the ball. So now we're working on "down" as he approaches. This one has been tough because (unknowingly) I trained him to jump. At first it was cute his jumping up to give me the ball. Now he's bigger and stronger and it's not so cute. 
Havne't puirchased the crate games will but I will. You mention a DVD. I imagine that is better than the book?
he's a pretty relentless little guy,. I know they all are. It takes consistency on my part.
Leash pulling, we're working on that too. I am stopping now when he pulls and I'm sure he will catch on.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

krandall said:


> Lots of people have multiple Havs and thoroughly enjoy it. Most of the dogs seem to get along well. B-U-T, you should get another one for YOU, not for him. There are definitely trade-offs. They won't ALWAYS get along, he will have to share your time with another dog, and expenses and work load automatically double. The people who choose to have multiples mostly seem to think it is worth it, but you need to think it out.
> 
> As far as the immediate problem, for Bax's own sake, he needs to learn to occupy himself at least some of the time too. You got him older, so it may take a little more work. But I would get him some great chew things, like moose antlers, flavored Nylabones... whatever he likes, and a few toys like Skinneze or squeaky balls. Then I would start purposely leaving him, either in an ex-pen or gated into an area that he can't get to you. Do it in a kind but matter of fact way. DON'T feel sorry for him. Then start leaving him there for slowly but progressively longer periods. Start really short, like 5 minutes and work up from there.
> 
> ...


YOu mention, "work hard to maintain Kodi's use of litter box". What do you mean by work hard? What do you actually do?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> Havne't puirchased the crate games will but I will. You mention a DVD. I imagine that is better than the book?
> he's a pretty relentless little guy,. I know they all are. It takes consistency on my part.
> Leash pulling, we're working on that too. I am stopping now when he pulls and I'm sure he will catch on.


Crate Games was only available as a DVD when I got it. Is there a book version too? I think both can be useful. In a DVD, you can really watch and see EXACTLY what she does. But with a book, you can take it slower, and really study what she says. I guess which is better for you depends on how you process information better.

Even with consistence, loose leash walking just.plain.takes.time.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> YOu mention, "work hard to maintain Kodi's use of litter box". What do you mean by work hard? What do you actually do?


On days that the weather is vile, I watch him closely and keep reminding him "use your box" when he goes to whine at the door. (he's like a cat... He WANTS to go out, but he WANTS me to fix the weather first!:biggrin1)

Then, of course, when he relents and uses the box, it's party time. Oh, and on days when I think he might like to use it for poop, I am EXTRA careful to remove any pee immediately. He HATES using it if it's not pristine.

His feeling about the box is sort of like my feeling about porta-potties, I think!:biggrin1:


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

that is such a good analogy!!!! actually during Hurricame Sandy Charley used the box. There was no choice. But now, if I say "potty in the box" he looks at me like I have two heads. but we haven't been in a desparate situation lately either. I think I will thoroughly clean the box to see if that will make a difference. 
I will probably purchase the book since I usually like to read something new over and over. I will keep you posted.


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