# What training direction to go....



## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Timmy is finishing up his last session of basic training and I will need to decide what direction we should go in for our next session. I never thought I'd even get to this point since I started training to socialize my little guy and learn the basics, but now I really enjoy it. I will be talking to Timmy's current trainer who has had him for the past three sessions to get her thoughts on what direction we should go. What experiences do you have with training and how did you ultimately make that decision on what direction to go in? I'm torn between continuing with Advance Manners or switch over to Dog Sports. I know it's hard to make an informed decision without knowing Timmy's personality but here are my thoughts. I'm pretty sure I ultimately want to try and pass the CGC evaluation after Timmy turns one in October, but that's because I originally wanted I wanted to do Therapy work with him and now I'm not sure. Timmy started out as a shy and timid little puppy for his Puppy K classes, but has come to LOVE going to class and really seems to have fun when he's there. He continually barks in class if I don't keep him busy, lots of hand touches while the teacher is talking, it's pretty exhausting. Teacher says he's bored if he's not doing something, which is good I guess. He seems to turn into another dog when we get into class, does that make sense? He's all business and really excited about it, very focused not like our training sessions at home sometimes. :frusty: I'm totally terrified to think about the possibility of doing something competitively with him but I guess that's because it's all new to me. If anyone out there can give me advice or questions to ask myself in helping to decide our next step I'd really appreciate it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

First, I don't know how your classes are set up, but just knowing Timmy's age, my guess is that he hasn't mastered reliably performing all obedience requirements in challenging, distracting settings. 

Also, he is too young to be doing any serious agility. Lots of training centers offer "puppy agility" classes but, frankly, if these are set up to be SAFE, these are a chance for owners to play with their puppy more than anything else. Dogs under one year should not be jumping anything more than "jump bumps" (about the height of a swim noodle set on the ground) they should not be doing ANY weaving, or tight turns and they should not be on high equipment that they could jump or fall from.

So, I guess I'd want to know what "dog sports" was. The way our training center worked, we had puppy classes, then "graduate puppy" that you could do as many times as you wanted until the puppy was a year old. It was a continuation of working on the skills started in puppy class. At about 8 months, I felt that we had gotten all we could out of that class, and I switched to "intro to competition obedience". This worked on more formal heeling, and learning the different exercizes needed for AKC Novice Obedience. (and now AKC Beginner Novice and CDSP Novice) if this is what your "dog sports" class will be working on, it could be great! 

Kodi stayed in that class for quite a long time (as did all the other dogs in the class... Even though they were 6 week sessions, there was only a little turn over with each session). I finally pulled him out of the class for the same problem you mentioned with Timmy. He barked incessantly when it wasn't his turn. Everyone else in the class, including the instructor, were vey nice about it, but I found it VERY stressful, and couldn't concentrate on what the instructir was saying, let alone learn from watching the other class members because I was constantly "managing" him. So I took him out of that class and started doing privates for obedience. When he turned one, I also put him in an agility class. He also does a drop-in obedience class most weeks that is just to keep skills polished up, and we do Rally run-throughs once a week. (our school doesn't have separate Rally classes, but once your dog knows enough basic obedience, you can go to run-throughs, and the instructor who runs it will help you with any stations you need help with)

I guess this is all a long way of saying, it depends. If the class is heavily weighted toward agility, I'd skip it for now. If it's a "taste" of all the different dog sports, it could be fun for you to see what's out there. But for a dog under one year, the best thing you can do is focus on basic obedience. They will be the foundation of everything you do, no matter what sport you decide to pursue later.

Oh, and Kodi is much better about the barking now. He is absolutely FINE if he can wait in his crate between turns, which wasn't possible the way the "intro" class was set up. Also, that instructor just had a class pace that was too slow for him. Finally, he has just plain grown up a lot, and learned to be more patient!


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Thanks Karen, great advice.



krandall said:


> So, I guess I'd want to know what "dog sports" was.


I'd have to take a fundamentals class before starting Competition Obedience, Rally Obedience whose goals would be CD, CX, UD, UDX and OTCH. Even once I get through the foundation classes I wouldn't be able to do Agility until he's at least 10 months old and he'd have to go through Pre-Agility (no obstacles) before jumping into the big time.

Here's what they say about what we can do next:
Dog Sport Fundamental include:
Attention and focus, self control, along with good handling skills are essential for any off leash dog sport (agility, flyball, obedience, rally ) you plan to pursue. This class covers clicker skills, targeting to hand and disc, crate/mat games, solid verbal cues for sit, down, release. Left and right side walking/running, recall with distractions, stays, leave it.
Advanced Manners Fundamentals:
If you are interested in obedience training and overall better manners out and about, and for those interested in pursuing the Canine Good Citizen and Therapy Dog certifications. This class focuses on building your dog's best manners and confidence and covers many of the exercises included in the CGC test. You will continue to improve your own training skills as you help your dog problem solve and learn new skills. Fun and challenging!



krandall said:


> Kodi stayed in that class for quite a long time (as did all the other dogs in the class... Even though they were 6 week sessions, there was only a little turn over with each session). I finally pulled him out of the class for the same problem you mentioned with Timmy. He barked incessantly when it wasn't his turn. Everyone else in the class, including the instructor, were vey nice about it, but I found it VERY stressful, and couldn't concentrate on what the instructir was saying, let alone learn from watching the other class members because I was constantly "managing" him.


There is a lot of turn over in our classes. I don't think there is anyone that has stayed since Puppy K. The trainer has started doing some things differently for Timmy then the rest of the class. There seemes to be a lot of review from our previous session for some of the new dogs, so we have to tweak a little if we seem to have a handle on that lesson. We are stressing the 3 D's, distance, duration and distraction. His barking is really a pain because you're right, it's hard to listen and learn from the others when you're "managing". Our instructor agrees with you in that obedience is the key to any other area of dog training we decide to go into. He absolutely needs work on reliability.



krandall said:


> Oh, and Kodi is much better about the barking now. He is absolutely FINE if he can wait in his crate between turns, which wasn't possible the way the "intro" class was set up. Also, that instructor just had a class pace that was too slow for him. Finally, he has just plain grown up a lot, and learned to be more patient!


Thank goodness about the barking, so there is light at the end of the tunnel! He's the only barker in class and I feel bad when he's such a loud mouth.

I know whatever decision I make won't be wrong. Our classes sessions are six weeks also so if I want to make a change the next time around I won't have to wait that long. Now my next question will be scheduling daytime vs. evening classes. Timmy is much more of a morning dog, not sure if he'd have as much energy if I had to take an evening class, but maybe he wouldn't bark as much either! ound:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It actually sounds like either class is totally appropriate, so you might want to decide just based on scheduling. When Kodi was a puppy he did much better in daytime classes too. (then again, so did I!) the other thing I like about daytime classes is that they tend to be less full.

I think Timmy will get over his barking too, but I do think, at least in our case, that getting him OUT of classes for a while (while still continuing to train!) helped by getting out of the habit of practicing a behavior I didn't want. Oh, Idon't know if your training center offers something like this, but we also did a "Real Life" obedience course where the trainer met us every week in a different location to practice obedience skills in more challenging, real-life settings. We went to parks, mall, working on the sidewalk along busy streets, etc. That was a GREAT opportunity for distraction training with a trainer there to give you help if necessary.



jabojenny said:


> Thanks Karen, great advice.
> 
> I'd have to take a fundamentals class before starting Competition Obedience, Rally Obedience whose goals would be CD, CX, UD, UDX and OTCH. Even once I get through the foundation classes I wouldn't be able to do Agility until he's at least 10 months old and he'd have to go through Pre-Agility (no obstacles) before jumping into the big time.
> 
> ...


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

I'll have to decide based on schedule and if my current trainer is doing any of those classes, I really like her. I am much more of a morning person and the kid's evening activities slow down during the summer so I should be able to work in an evening time if necessary. I don't think they offer real life obedience, but perhaps I might be able to do some private lessons and gear them towards something like that, it sounds like a great opportunity. I know my trainer does private sessions too. I hadn't thought about private sessions since these classes were originally a socialization opportunity, but now that he's fine in that department and walking daily with the neighborhood gang I should look into that. So you think the private sessions helped Kodi with his barking issues during class? Something else for me to consider about doing them.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jabojenny said:


> I'll have to decide based on schedule and if my current trainer is doing any of those classes, I really like her. I am much more of a morning person and the kid's evening activities slow down during the summer so I should be able to work in an evening time if necessary. I don't think they offer real life obedience, but perhaps I might be able to do some private lessons and gear them towards something like that, it sounds like a great opportunity. I know my trainer does private sessions too. I hadn't thought about private sessions since these classes were originally a socialization opportunity, but now that he's fine in that department and walking daily with the neighborhood gang I should look into that. So you think the private sessions helped Kodi with his barking issues during class? Something else for me to consider about doing them.


I don't know if they helped directly, but they certainly helped in that he was no longer able to practice the behavior we wanted to stop. And, unfortunately, that type of demand barking can turn into a self-rewarding behavior. In a provate lesson he wasn't waiting around, so he didn't get bored. The few times he DID start barking, my instructor had me march him directly out of the ring, and make him QUIETLY hold a "down" in the outer office for about 15 seconds. Once he was quiet, he was allowed to go back to the ring, and we would work on something he found particulalry fun for a few minutes. But, honestly, I think it was mostly growing up and not having the opportunity to do it that soved the barking problem.


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## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

I'd stick to obedience. Those skills are much more useful in real life. In the class I go to, when it isn't your turn in the ring they want you focusing on attention work, sits and downs, so the dog doesn't get bored and doesn't bark. After the second week there were no "barkers" in the group.

As an aside, my labradoodle just passed her "Canine Good Neighbour" test last night! I was completely amazed! I really thought it was goign to be a practice run since she's a barker and a jumper, but something happened in the ring and she behaved perfectly! All those obedience classes paid off! My doodle was too young to do the test (they have to be over 6 months) so i'm keeping up the obedience and will get her tested next year.


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