# Shadow's sick



## Leslie

Poor Shadow started having diarrhea last Sat. afternoon. So, I took her food away, made sure she had water, waited overnight and started her on boiled chicken and white rice on Sun. morning. She seemed to be doing better by noon. However, by Sun. night she refused to eat anything and was drinking very little. She was also having dry heaves by this time. We went to the vet Mon. morning, he said she had good color and wasn't dehydrated at all. His recommendation was to give her Gerber's meat baby food and a prescription for Metronidazole. He thought she probably just had a tummy ache and that it would be fine in a day. 

Well, I think it's more than a "tummy ache". As of last night she is refusing to eat almost anything I try to give her, and the list is long: baby food, chicken breast, chicken broth, yogurt, rice, chicken jerky (her favorite treat), jack cheese, and cottage cheese. She did eat a small piece of cheddar cheese this morning and took small amounts of Nutri-Cal last night and this morning. She is hardly drinking, either.

The vet comes in at 9:00 AM and the tech said she would talk to him to see if he could see Shadow between the surgeries he's doing today. So, I'm waiting to hear what time I can take her in.... 

In the meantime, anybody have any ideas what could be wrong and what I should tell the vet? Thanks.


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## marjrc

I'm sorry to hear Shadow is under the weather, Leslie. 

It's no fun trying to figure out what's going on. Please let us know what the vet suggests this time.


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## Missy

When Jasper was younger- he would vomit from hunger...and still not eat. it took rabbit fillets to fill his belly. But Cash recently, ate something outside that made him vomit and he had to be on iv overnight-- so I'm glad you're taking her to the vet.


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## Thumper

So sorry to hear about little Shadow. It could be many things, maybe she just ate something that isnt' agreeing with her 

I'm glad your vet is getting her in quickly. Hopefully, the treatment plan works!

Have you tried giving her sips of water from a water bottle? I know when Gucci was feeling under the weather and refusing to drink from her bowl, she was willing to drink from the bottled water. She thought that was pretty cool. Still does.

Hugs and well wishes,
Kara and Gucci


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## MaddiesMom

Sorry to hear about Shadow. I'd suggest a blood test panel and a CBC (complete blood count). That really helps in diagnosing if there is anything more serious than a simple tummy ache. She may need an IV if she's dehydrated. Hope she feels better soon. Keep us posted!


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## Doggie Nut

Geez....it is so difficult since they don't "talk" and can't tell you what's going on. It's just a guessing game or process of elimination.....which usually takes a little while. Keep us posted!


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## Leslie

*Bad news, good news*

Bad news: Vet can't see her until tomorrow morning. He said to keep giving her the Nutri-Cal and Pedialyte. Also, keep trying to get her to eat other things, baby food, cheese, etc.

Good news: I scrambled an egg and added some cheddar cheese and she ate about half of it.

I'll keep you posted on how she does. Thanks for your well wishes and advice. I knew you guys wouldn't fail me


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## juliav

Leslie,

I am sorry that Shadow is sick, please let us know what the vet says.
Sending healing vibes.


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## SMARTY

We're sorry Shadow is sick. I have found if I am truly worried and I just show up at my vets they always see me. Glad you got him to eat the eggs.

Is Shadow's poop ok? Keep a watch out. Throwing up and not eating is also a sign they have eaten something that has not passed through the digestive tract.


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## Cosmosmom

I know it is stressful but the good news is that he did eat something . It is important that he drink flids so he does not become dehydrated ..
I agree some blood work might be in order . Maybe it is good that he has some time to rest and let the meds work .
? do you have a 24 hour emergency facility available just in case or does you vet take calls after 5 . Always good to have a back up plan just in case .
Cosmo had a bad spell a while ago - he would not eat and felt downand out . He missed a meal but had a good nights sleep and seemed better the next day .


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## juscha

Poor Shadow! I hope he's better soon! Get well little darling!


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## Julie

Goodness Leslie.....Sorry to read about Shadow's illness.Hopefully after a day or so she'll be feeling better.I hope it's nothing serious.It sounds good that you got her to eat a little bit.Maybe Shadow is "on the mend"
:hug: :hug: :grouphug: :hug: :hug:


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## EMarie

well she may not like the pedalyte because it tastes awful, we used to give them gatoraid, they normally loved it. I would not force her to eat if she is sick, keep using the nutra-cal. Our bodies tell us when not to eat when there is something is wrong. But keep the fluids up. I would have him run a complete blood panel, including a CBC and complete enzyme workup (liver, kidneys, pancreais (sp), glucose ect.) That tells us more than you think. Maybe even an x-ray will help. Are any of your toys missing? Does she go outside and chew on wood or anything like that? Is she vomiting? He will figure it out, but it is important to tell him she is not better so that he realizes that she is not just being picky. You know your dog better than anyone else. 

Erin


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## Leslie

Update:
The egg seemed to help some. She actually chased a ball I accidentally kicked across the floor. She also seemed like her "old self" when my last two students were here. Perhaps she's on the mend. I sure hope so. She is napping now. I'll give her some more Nutri-Cal when she wakes up. Thanks for all the well wishes and good advice. I'll keep you posted on how she does.

Cosmosmom- yes, we do have an emergency clinic less than 10 min. away. Unfortunately, we've had to use it in the past for a cat we owned who ate weed killer one Sunday. They are much more expensive than a regular vet, but it is good to know they're there if you need them.


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## Leslie

Erin,

Yes, she was vomiting yesterday, but not last night nor today. She is known to eat a "variety" of things. I'm forever taking things out of her mouth. One of her favorites is the bark in the flowerbeds. My thought was that she may have eaten something she shouldn't have, too. I'm thinking an x-ray may be a good idea, besides the blood panel, which will tell us a myriad of things.


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## EMarie

Leslie,
I would agree, if their is a chance that she ate something and it has blocked her than you need to find out asap. She would normally be vomiting much more than just that once though. Sometimes dogs just don't feel good, just like children. Let us know what happens when you take her to the vet!!!
I will be thinking about you.

Erin


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## Cheryl

Normally with a bowel obstruction there is no stool. I know that she started with diarrhea, but has she continued to produce stool? Gastroenteritis (from whatever cause) will produce both vomiting and diarrhea, as well as lack of appetite. Electrolyte imbalance is often the result even when the "patient" is hydrated. The chem panel would show if there was an imbalance. A count of White Blood Cells would show if there is an infection.


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## EMarie

normally your right, but in 10 yrs I saw more cases that were not by the book we quickly learned not to count anything out until the proper test were run.

Erin


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## Laurief

Leslie - sorry to hear about 
Shadow, we are all sending good thoughts to you guys. Keep us advised.
Laurie


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## whitBmom

I hope Shadow is feeling better :grouphug:


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang

Leslie,

How is Shadow doing today? I hope she's feeling better and that it was just a case of 'garbage gut'. 

Wanda


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## Leslie

Last night and this morning she seemed worse. She was refusing absolutely everything she was offered. At least yesterday I could get her to eat the Nutra-Cal.

Right now she's at the vet's having barium x-rays done. He thinks she may have some kind of partial obstruction, since she has passed two very small stools in the past two days. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they find something such as: bark from the flowerbeds, toys (parts or whole), any tidbit found on the floor, etc. You get the idea...she will chew/eat anything she can get ahold of. I'm forever taking things out of her mouth :frusty: 

The vet said it will take about 4-5 hrs. to complete the procedure. He'll call me once he knows anything. Sure hope whatever it is, won't require surgery.


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## mckennasedona

Leslie,

Poor Shadow. You and Shadow are in my thoughts. I hope all is well and whatever it is will be easy to find and fix!

Susan


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## Havtahava

Leslie, I'm glad you were able to get her in today. I keep coming back to read to see if you have updates. I'm thinking of you two today!

Best wishes for some good results and a quick fix.


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## SMARTY

Hope you have an answer by now on Shadow and every thing is fine. I was concerned it might be a blockage. keep us posted.


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## mintchip

Get well soon Shadow!


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## MaddiesMom

Leslie- So sorry to hear about Shadow. I'm so glad the vet finally saw her. It doesn't take much to block these little dog's systems. And they do eat *everything.* I remember Olliesmom had to take Ollie for a blockage due to him eating a tiny ear plug. I'm thinking of you and Shadow, and please keep us posted.:grouphug:


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## dboudreau

Leslie, Sam & I send hugs :grouphug: I hope everything goes well with Shadow.


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## juliav

Leslie,

We are thinking of Shadow and hope you will know real soon what's wrong with her. Hopefully, whatever it is, it won't require a surgery.

Please keep us posted,


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## TnTWalter

*How scary...*

Here's hoping it's something Shadow can pass on her own. Poor thing.

Big [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[HUG]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] to both of you.

Trish


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## Cosmosmom

Hope all is well with Shadow .
We are wating to hear the latest news .. Hope it is positive ..
Yed these critters are very oral . I still remember Cosmo - he did not like bark but he sure does love his twigs ...
The boys send their best wishes for a speedy recovery ..
So sorry he has to have that yucky barium..


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## Missy

Glad you got to the vet today. keeping my fingers crossed-- big hug for you and Shadow... keep us posted


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## SMARTY

I spend half my time getting things away from and out of Smarty's mouth, today she decided she could go on my desk and eat pens. She had blue ink on her tongue. Not sure if she ate any of the plastic. She worse than a 2 year old about getting into things and twice as bad since DH invited her into a chair.

Still waiting to hear the vets findings on Shadow.


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## Julie

Lelie and Shadow,
Hope you hear some good news from the vet!Keep us posted........


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## good buddy

Have you heard anything yet? I hope everything will be alright with Shadow. Let us know what happens ok?


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## SMARTY

Has anyone heard from Shadow?


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## Cheryl

It's still a little early here in CA, but I hope Leslie knows that we are worried about her Shadow and hope he is doing better today.


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## marjrc

Can't wait to hear about how Shadow's doing and what the mystery could be! Sammy is a true vaccum and beaver and will chew on anything that isn't nailed down.


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## Amy R.

I wish Leslie and Shadow all the best and hope this present crisis resolves. The single most distressing problem I've had with Biscuit from day 1 is his desire to eat anything and everything, and the more dangerous, the more delicious! He has already been to the emergency room once with bloody colitis from eating god-knows-what. I have always watched him like a hawk, and dog-proofed everything. Why do dogs do this? I had no idea. 
Thinking good thoughts for Shadow today. . .


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## dotndani

Any news on Shadow yet?


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## SMARTY

I guess no news yet, I've been checking hourly.


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## mintchip

Shadow and family I sure hope no news is good news. :grouphug:Get well soon! :hug:


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## dotndani

Shadow how are you feeling?Duncan sends a big Hav hug and wants uoi to feel better soon!!:hug:


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## Laurief

It has been since Friday since we have heard anything here, has anyone else heard about about how Shadow made out???


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## good buddy

Get well soon Shadow!! I'm getting nervous, I hope we hear something GOOD soon! :ear:


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## Havtahava

Is anyone in touch with Leslie outside of this message board?


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## juliav

Leslie,

We are worried about little Shadow and hope everything is OK. 
Please let us know.


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## mckennasedona

Each time I see this thread bump to the top I hope that there is good news. I hope all is well with Shadow.

Susan


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## Poornima

Wishing Shadow all the best and looking forward to hearing good news!

Best,
Poornima & Benji


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## Julie

I keep checking this thread too looking for some news on Shadow.Hopefully Leslie has just been busy and everything is ok.....Hope she lets us know something soon...........:hug:


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## Cosmosmom

I think we are all in the same boat - waiting to hear positive news about Shadow ..


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## mintchip

Cosmosmom said:


> I think we are all in the same boat - waiting to hear positive news about Shadow ..


Yes you are right!:grouphug: :hug: 
I hope all is well and they are just having some computer problems.


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## Judy A

Sure would like to hear some positive news...sending our best wishes for a good outcome...


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## Melissa Miller

I sent Leslie an email ( thanks to Kimberly bringing to my attention we had not heard from her since Shadow got sick. I love how everyone takes care of each other here) , told her we were worried about her. Ill let you know if I hear anything.


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## dboudreau

Thanks Melissa, your the best. I think we are all very concerned. I hope it is just computer and scheduling problems.


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## Laurief

This is almost like waiting for a new baby to arrive - so nerve wracking to not know how Shadow is - sending hugs & kisses his way!!:grouphug: :kiss: :grouphug: :kiss:


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## Leslie

Hi guys,

I am so sorry I wasn't able to update you over the weekend. We were out of town and away from computers. Anyway, here's the latest on my baby:

The vet kept her overnight Friday to do a barium x-ray series to check for obstructions. Good news is nothing was found. However, she is still not eating a thing. She is drinking water, though. He thinks it's a severe case of gastroenteritis. He gave her anti-vomiting meds, an antibiotic, and an antacid. When I asked about blood tests he said he didn't think it was necessary. This didn't sit well w/me. So, this AM at 11:00 we have an appt. for a second opinion w/another vet.

I promise to let you know what happens.

Thank you all for your concern and well wishes. I think Shadow can feel them.


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## Laurief

Leslie, glad to hear that there was no obstruction, but frustrated to hear that he is still not doing well!! I agree that a second opinion would be best. Since these babies cannot speak for themselves, I am all for doing it ALL to rule out everything, instead of taking the wait & see attitude. My girlfriends Hav is going thru the same thing and they are taking him to a specialist today! 
Good luck and loves to Shadow, keep us informed.
Laurie


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## Doggie Nut

Valentino says "*"Get Well Shadow"!*


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## Havtahava

Leslie, I was hoping that you had something good going on over the weekend!

Boy, sounds like you definitely have good news & bad news. I'm glad there was no obstruction, but I sure hope you can get to the root of all of this. Did this vet even suggest fasting Shadow for 24 hours if she thinks it is severe gastro-irritation?

I think you are wise to seek a second opinion. Best wishes to Shadow!


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## Missy

Leslie, glad there was no obstruction. Hope shadow starts to feel better.


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## dboudreau

Good luck at the new vet. Get well soon Shadow. We will be thinking of you.


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## juliav

Leslie,

It's good to hear from you.  I am glad that Shadow has no obstructions, but how frustrating that you still don't know what's wrong. It's a good thing that you are going for a second opinion. We look forward to hearing the update.

Best,


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## Amy R.

Wishing Shadow all the best, and hoping the antibiotic will turn the situation around.


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## Judy A

best wishes to Shadow...


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## marbenv

Leslie,

Hope the blood tests will give you some answers. It must be so frustrating. Let us know. We all care.

Marsha


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## Cosmosmom

I agree fasting is not a bad thing if they think it is gastroeneteritis . It is always a good idea to do a CBC and some basic blood tests . 
Sounds like a second opinion may be a good idea . Be sure to watch for dehydration too ..
Thanks for keeping us in the loop .. 
Chin up Shadow - we will get to the bottom of this ..


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## Thumper

:grouphug:

I hope the vet solves the puzzle today! I know the worst part is not knowing 

Mine is also one that I am forever pulling stuff out of her mouth, so I know the feeling. It scares me that this may be the problem with Shadow, poor girl..that has to be painful, too.

Wishing Shadow the best!

Kara


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## MaddiesMom

Leslie, thanks for giving us an upate on Shadow. We've all been so worried about her and you. I think a second opinion is a really good idea. For a young dog to go as long as Shadow has with vomiting and not eating has to be diagnosed. A blood test and CBC would have given alot of information. You're doing the right thing for your baby. Let us know whenever you hear anything. Hopefully it is just a bad case of gasteroenteritis and Shadow will be on the mend soon. We're all sending positive thoughts your way.


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## Laurief

Leslie, I wonder if Shadow has the same thing that Clark (my friends Hav) has. He went to the specialist today and they told them that he has a severe gastrointeritis(spelling??) like at Irrible Bowel Syndrome. They said that it can be triggered by stress, or food, or a parasite. They put him on steriods and have him on the rabbit/potatoe diet & are waiting a few days. Hopefully his will go away, as well as Shadow's!!
Laurie


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## radar_jones

We hope all is well with Shadow.....:biggrin1: It's always tense when wating for things like this to work themselves out and I'm sure that all will work out just fine. Big Hugs and Kisses for Shadow from Radar........:kiss: 

Derek


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## Leslie

Update:

New vet decided the best things to do were blood, urine, and fecal tests...imagine that! She just called and said her liver and pancreatic enzymes are elevated. She said at this time she's leaning toward possible pancreatitis. However, she wants to run a more definitive test and also check out the liver elevations more carefully. She is going to keep her at least overnight to administer IV fluids and meds. If it is pancreatitis the pancreas needs total rest, which means nothing by mouth (not even water) for at least 24 hr. The dr. said she will be calling back later tonight (before 7 pm CA time) w/an update. I'll let you all know what she says.

Thank you again for all your support. It really helps knowing there are others out there who understand how upsetting this is. God bless you!


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## Leeann

Oh my Leslie, you are dealing with a lot more than I am right now. I was really shocked that your first vet did not want to do the tests. My boys have only been sick since sat., I brought them today and they did all the test and had me wait while they ran them. I'm glad you got a second opinion and Shadow is being taken care of. I can only imagine how hard it is to leave her at the vets but hopefully now she can start her recovery.
Sending lots of hugs and good vibes to you and Shadow.


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## radar_jones

Holy Moly that's terrible for your little Shadow.....   

We are all thinking of her and praying she is back to herself quickly. I have no idea what the Pancreas does for a Havanese and if a normal existence can be achieved without it. I for one hope and pray that your little girl is on th speedy road to recovery.

Derek


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## MaddiesMom

Leslie- Thank goodness the second vet knew what to do. I can't imagine a vet not wanting to do some testing on a young dog that has had Shadow's symptoms for so long. Is Shadow in any pain? Pancreatitis can be really painful. Your second vet seems to have a handle on the situation, and hopefully the correct treatment can begin. You and Shadow are in our thoughts.


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## Havtahava

Leslie, hang in there. I hope we can be of some support and reassurance to you while you wait.


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## irnfit

Sorry to hear about Shadow. So glad you went proactive and found another vet. It sounds like Shadow is in good hands all around.

My daughter's sweet little Dachsie, Jaxson, got sick all of a sudden about 2 weeks ago. He got very lethargic, wouldn't eat or drink. He just moped around, was very depresses, didn't wag his tail. After some testing they found out he has Addison's Syndrome. It is something with the adrenal glands and underproduction of cortisol. He is on predisone and responding very well. I hope Shadow does as well as our Jaxson.


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## RedHeadedGator

Leslie - I just read this whole thread and am so sorry that Shadow's been so sick. I'm so glad you went for a second opinion and please know that the girls and I are thinking of you and Shadow and wishing her a super fast healing. Big hugs from all of us :grouphug:


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## Laurief

Its interesting that you mention that as the specialist that my friend took Clark to said that they will treat for gastrotineritis but that it could be Addisons disease. Lets just hope that Clark and Shadow start getting better soon!!!


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## irnfit

The Addison's can present as a stomach problem. He had loose stools and vomiting and then he was OK. My daughter thought maybe he ate something outside. Then he got sick again. The vet, as well as the literature, says it is rareto appear in such a young dog, he is only a year old.


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## Laurief

I will have to research that - do you know if it is hereditary or common amongst siblings? The specialist said that Clark was a little young for it too but was not counting it out. The poor little babies!!


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## anneks

I sorry to hear that shadow isn't feeling better yet. I am glad you took him for a second opinion and hope that the new vet has him feeling fine and running around the house again soon!


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## juliav

Leslie,

I am so glad that you took Shadow to a different vet who knows what needs to be done and is on top of her treatment. Sending healing thoughts and wishes for quick diagnosis and recovery.


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## Doggie Nut

Gee, I just thought doing blood work was routine! Good thing you got a second opinion.....hope he starts feeling better!!


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang

Leslie,

We're sending lots of positive thoughts and prayers that Shadow will be fine and back to her usual self in no time.

Pepper sends hugs :hug: too!

Wanda


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## Leslie

Another update:

The vet called to say the additional testing still points to pancreatitis. They will keep her overnight for treatment. I'll let you know when there's anymore to report.


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## dboudreau

Thanks for the update. Shadow is in good hands. Try to relax and not worry too much.:grouphug: Hugs to you and Shadow.


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## ama0722

Gezz, I think I mixed this one up with the other sick thread. I hope you get to hear better news. My maltese had really high liver enzymes once and then we went back and retested a week later, they were back to normal. It sounds like getting a second opinion and more testing before a conclusion was a smart idea on your part. keep us posted and hugs to you and Shadow.

Amanda


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## Leslie

The tiny bit of research I've done on pancreatitis says it's most common in middle aged, overweight dogs. Shadow's 8 mos. old and weighed in today at 5.3 lbs. Not exactly the typical profile. If anyone's interested here's a link to the description of it:

http://www.vetcentric.com/reference/encycEntry.cfm?ENTRY=23&COLLECTION=EncycIllness&MODE=full

I really like this new vet, she is so attentive and seemingly knowledgeable. She seems to be very on top of it and cares a lot. She's called me twice herself today and the nurse has called twice besides. A far cry from the treatment I was getting at the old place.

Your care and concern is so wonderful and comforting. Thank you! Thank you! You're the best!


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## Beamer

Hope Shadow gets all better quick!

Really sucks that so many vets opinions differ one from the other. I LOVE Beamers normal Vet place.. they really care for the animals so much.. the after hours clinic i took him to is another story ofcourse.. all they care about was the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## Missy

Leslie, I am really glad you and shadow found this wonderful Vet. sending belling rubs to shadow and hugs to you. thanks for keeping us posted.


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## Cheryl

Leslie--I am so glad that you followed your instincts and received a second opinion. I can't believe a vet who thinks blood tests are not needed in an animal who has been sick for over 1 week. Actually I think the blood test should have been done prior to the barrium enema. 

In people pancreititis is often seen in adolescents. I hope Shadow is on the road to rapid improvement. Roxie and Brutus send their best wishes for a speedy recovery.


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## Leslie

I was surprised blood tests weren't one of the 1st things done either. I even asked if they'd do them. The vet's response was, "I'm not concerned it's metabolic in such a young dog. I think she probably just ate something and has an obstruction." Ok, so when she didn't have an obstruction, why didn't he do the blood work then??? I am angry that poor little Shadow had to endure more suffering because of his "non-concern". I plan to write a letter to let them know how dissatisfied I am w/the treatment Shadow received.

The new vet will call in the AM to let me know how Shadow's doing. She said if they can get her to eat and keep it down she may be able to come home tomorrow. I sure hope this is the case.


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## Cosmosmom

Young dogs do get pancreatitis as well . I know because my German shorthair got it .. He was a garbage dog and got into something he shouldn't have and he had a really bad reaction ..
The good news is that your little guy is being treated getting what he needs which is probably I/V's and antibiotics and he will be home in no time .. Tomorrow they will have a better idea once they have all the blood results .. 
He is young and they are like children they recover quickly and well ..

Cosmo & Ahnold send their best . 

Cosmo had a tipsy tummy when he was just six months and you would never know it today .. I am so grateful I now have wonderful vets .. I never question the bill they are worth every penny ..
I know all about those 24 hour vets Caching Caching but I found a wonderful one when Ahnold had the post surgery lickies . I drove pver 30 miles but it was worth it .. 
I cannot stress it enough - this vets are human and make mistakes . Some do not do blood testing right away because people complain about the cost .. 
Do not be afraid to get another opinion .. ever


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## good buddy

Leslie, It's so good to hear you got a second opinion! It sounds like this new vet is being very thorough and that's good for Shadow. I hope he can hold food down tomorrow and you can finally take him home! Get well little Shadow!


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## Leslie

Tues. AM update:

The new vet (Dr. C.) consulted w/the chief of staff vet (Dr. B.) regarding Shadow's case. Dr. B. is suspicious of Addison's disease and/or possible liver shunt. He is testing for Addison's first and will have the results this afternoon. If that turns out negative, he'll test for liver shunt. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers.


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## Beamer

Wow.. this sucks... Have you been in contact with shadows breeder since he has gotten ill???

Hope Shadow gets better and quick!


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## Leslie

freeway1976 said:


> Wow.. this sucks... Have you been in contact with shadows breeder since he has gotten ill???


Yes, I spoke w/her last night. She is very concerned and wants to be updated as I find anything out. I just sent her an email w/this morning's update.


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## Doggie Nut

I am praying for you & Shadow that those vets will have wisdom & insight as to EXACTLY what the problem is and then prescribe the EXACT and proper treatment so that Shadow will get well and be better than ever!


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## Leslie

Thank you, Vicki, that's exactly what's needed. It is helping so much knowing so many of you are supporting us w/your thoughts and prayers. God bless you all!


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## Doggie Nut

Hey, no problem! I can only imagine what you are going through right now....I would be devastated and I would want someone doing the same for me!


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## mckennasedona

Leslie,
I'm sorry to hear that Shadow is still sick. Poor little one. You are in our thoughts and prayers. I do hope they get this figured out quickly so Shadow can come home!

Susan


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## MopTop Havanese

Thanks for the update~ I hope they are able to get you some answers quickly so Shadow can start on the road to recovery. I know how hard it is to wait~
We will be thinking of her!


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## mintchip

havashadow said:


> Tues. AM update:
> 
> The new vet (Dr. C.) consulted w/the chief of staff vet (Dr. B.) regarding Shadow's case. Dr. B. is suspicious of Addison's disease and/or possible liver shunt. He is testing for Addison's first and will have the results this afternoon. If that turns out negative, he'll test for liver shunt. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers.


I have a friend and her havanese has that. If you want I can tell her about this group- possibly share information with her.
Sally


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## radar_jones

We are keeping Both Yourself, Shadow and your family and all affected by what is going on right now deep in our prayers and thoughts. This is what we do...Care for our little fur babies and all of the Forum Members we have here. We are all Friends here and good peolpe and we help eachother get through these things. Take Very Good Care of You and Yours and know that we are all with you during this time.

:hug: 

Derek and All Forum Members


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## marbenv

Leslie,

You and Shadow are on my prayer list. I hope you get answers and solutions soon.:hug: 

Marsha


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## MaddiesMom

Leslie- I'm so sorry you are having to go through this drawn-out ordeal. I know the "unknown" is so upsetting. Just know that you have alot of support here. Our thoughts and prayers go with you and Shadow.


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## Missy

Oh Leslie, I am so sorry they have not figured it out yet. You, Shadow, and your family are certainly in our prayers.


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## marjrc

Oh boy, Leslie. Lots going on for poor little Shadow and for yourself!  Sad to hear it might be pancreatitis or liver shunt problem, though it's a good thing this vet is willing to test everything to be sure the problem is found. Poor little Shadow. 

Have you had a chance to see her, or do they feel it's best that you don't go for now? She's probably too tired to worry. 

Our thoughts are with you and I can't wait to hear more. Please know that we are all rooting for Shadow! (((hugs)))


----------



## Cheryl

Oh no, Leslie--I am so sorry to hear the latest about Shadow. I was worried that it might be a liver shunt, but was hoping that I was over reacting to the little I knew. 

Perhaps it will be Addisons and dogs with Addisons can and do live good lives once they are on supplements. 

You and Shadow are continuously in my thoughts. Please keep us posted.


----------



## Leslie

Tues. evening update:

The vet just called, it's not Addison's, her cortisol level is at 10. He
said if it were Addison's it would be below 5. 

They will have the liver test results back in the morning. He said she is not in pain and is resting comfortably. He said they can force feed her, but she won't eat on her own. However, right after he told me that, he said she got up and went over to the bowl, sniffed at it and took a lick of the food. I sure hope whatever this is, is finally passing. 

I'll be in touch in the morning after they call me w/the latest test results.


----------



## irnfit

I was hoping it was Addisons because my daughter's dog is responding so well to treatment. I'm hoping it's just some silly bug Shadow picked up and it just has to run its course. You all are in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## dboudreau

Leslie, thanks for keeping us updated. You both are in my thoughts.:grouphug:


----------



## Missy

Thanks for the update Leslie-- hope it is just a bug that passes. We'll continue to send positive thoughts. I am just so glad you found this great Vet.


----------



## juliav

Leslie,

Thanks for all the updates, we'll keep our fingers crossed that whatever Shadow is on her way to recovery.


----------



## Julie

:grouphug:Leslie and Shadow:grouphug:


----------



## Leeann

:kiss: :grouphug: :kiss: :grouphug: :kiss: :grouphug:

Sending lots of kisses & hugs to Leslie & Shadow


----------



## Laurief

Leslie - we are thinking about you and Shadow!! It must be very hard for him to be away from you. Keep us up to date.
Laurie


----------



## mckennasedona

Thank you for keeping us updated. Let's hope this morning's news is good and that Shadow can come home soon.

Susan


----------



## Lati49

Get better Little Shadow


----------



## Leslie

The vet just called w/the worst news...her bile acids were over 100, which indicates a liver shunt. We're taking her to a specialist today for confirmation and to see what possible treatment can be. The dr. says often they are treatable w/surgery...I sure hope that's the case for Shadow.


----------



## Lina

I am so sorry to hear that Leslie! Poor Shadow! At least you were smart and got a second opinion. The other vet probably would never have found the liver shunt if he was refusing to do blood tests.

Keep us updated! :grouphug:


----------



## Melissa Miller

Don't panic JUST yet. Sometimes they can get sick and I know their liver numbers get high. Havanese have higher numbers than normal and a lot of vets dont know that. Goldies went over 100 not too long ago. I put her on milk thistle and eggs and she bounced back. They thought it was an infection. 
Be SURE you email Doc or look into it further before surgery or anything takes place.


----------



## Melissa Miller

Did they do an ultrasound to look for the shunt?


----------



## Lati49

I am so sorry to hear this latest information. I know how badly you feel as my gal is facing uncertainty and it is soooo difficult. Keep hoping for the best.


----------



## RedHeadedGator

Leslie - I am so sorry to hear that about little Shadow. Melissa had some great advice about contacting Doc.

We will keep you and Shadow in our prayers and thank you for keeping us updated during this rough time


----------



## Leslie

Melissa,

I think the specialist we're seeing will probably do the ultrasound. The current vet says taking her to the place he's recommending is like us going to UCLA Medical Center, Loma Linda University Hospital, etc. He says they are one of the best in the nation. There are 18 specialist there.

Do you have Doc's contact info for me to give them?


----------



## radar_jones

Holy Moly Eh...there are just as much specialists out there..maybe even more for our Hav's than there are for us. It's the least we can do for the ones we Love.

Derek


----------



## Leeann

Leslie I agree with Melissa dont panic just yet. I know 2 people that were told liver shunt and it was not. It sounds like you are in very good hands, that is great.
My heart & prayers continue for you and shadow.


----------



## Missy

Oh Leslie, you must be heartbroken. But I agree, see what the specialist says--- I didn't know that Havs have higher liver counts but if that is so it is possible it could be just an infection. I am glad you and Shadow are in such good hands. Thanks for keeping us posted we feel like you and Shadow are family.


----------



## Havtahava

Leslie, I tried to contact you the other day. I'd send you some info, but you didn't have your private messaging or emailing enabled. Can you contact me by clicking on my name on the left and sending me an email or a private message? I won't be able to respond to you though, unless you enable yours or tell me your email address. (Don't post it openly though, unless you want a bunch of spam.)


----------



## anneks

Awww I am so sad for you and shadow. I hope they are wrong and everything turns out ok. It sounds like he is getting great care.


----------



## Laurief

Leslie - I am so sorry that the news was not what you were hoping for!! It feels like Shadow is one of ours and my heart is breaking.
The good news is, they could be wrong, and that you are taking him to a specialist where he will get the best care!!
Big kisses and hugs to Shadow from my guys!
Laurie


----------



## MaddiesMom

Leslie- I'm so glad you're taking Shadow right away to a reputable specialist. They can determine if it is a shunt and what kind of shunt. Treatment depends on what kind of shunt it may be. It sounds as if Shadow is in great hands. I'm sure you'll let us know as soon as you get more information. We'll be thinking of you and Shadow today. Sending lots of hugs your way. :hug:


----------



## lfung5

Leslie,
I am so sorry to hear about Shadow. Brady's mom told me what you have been dealing with on our walk today. Please feel free to contact me anytime. I went through the same thing with Bella. I'm sure you know, but no protein for Shadow. Hill's LD diet is what you should be feeding. There are 2 surgeries, please read about both. I hear the BAND surgery isn't very good. Bella had the other procedure and is good as new! Please keep us posted.


----------



## JASHavanese

I just saw this thread. I hope everything goes well for Shadow.


----------



## Cosmosmom

Hope all goes well with Shadow .
Be proactive - assertive and ask lots of questions and make sure you get the best care . Ask about the pros and cons of both surgeries .
I agree Milk Thiistle is good to impove liver function .. 
Hang in there shadow . Cosmo & Ahnold are rooting for you ..


----------



## Doggie Nut

Leslie....you & Shadow will continue to be on my prayer list! I know for me most of my fears come from the unknown.....with every bit of knowledge we obtain we get empowered to take the right steps and make right decisions! I tell you this Forum is a wonderful tool for us Hav moms & dads.....so glad you are getting the support & encouragement you need right now from such "in the know" people! Please keep us posted!


----------



## TnTWalter

*Oh no...*

Sending prayers and hugs that it's something easily treatable.

Big [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[HAVAHUG]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
to both of you.

Trish :grouphug:


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## Olliesmom

Our thoughts are with you! You are so special to be taking such good care. Shadow is lucky to have found you....


----------



## radar_jones

Wow I was just thinking that the Pricetag$$$ for the procedure must be really staggering eventhough we would all gladly pay that kind of money.

Derek


----------



## juliav

Leslie,

I am so sorry to hear that Shadow might have a liver shunt, and I hope that it's not. Shadow is a very lucky girl to have you for her mother.  

Sending good thoughts your way,


----------



## The Fussy Puppy Gang

Oh Leslie, 

I'm so sorry Shadow is still unwell. I hope it turns out to be something easier than they suspect and that she can be helped without surgery. 

We're sending LOTS of prayers and positive thoughts your way!

Big hugs to your little girl :hug: 

Wanda


----------



## Julie

Leslie and Shadow,
I'm sad to read the updates.I was hoping along with the rest of the forum members that Shadow would be better by now.I'm so sorry to hear that she is still struggling with her health.Please keep us informed.We wish you all the best......:hug::kiss:
Quincy and Julie


----------



## Brady's mom

Just wanted to let you know we are thinking of Shadow and hoping she feels better soon. It sounds like she is getting the best of care.


----------



## Cheryl

I am sending puppy hugs from Roxie and Brutus to you and Shadow and hoping for the best. I can't imagine how difficult this is for you.


----------



## dboudreau

:grouphug: I hope things go better at the specialists:grouphug: from Sam and me


----------



## MopTop Havanese

We are rooting for Shadow to be well enough for surgery so she can be on her way to a full recovery!!


----------



## Leslie

Here's the latest:

We just returned from leaving Shadow at the hospital. Honestly, she looked pretty good (much better than when we left her on Mon.) She did have a catheter left in for her IV and was wearing a cute little "cone of shame"  She was so happy to see me and it was so hard to leave her again :-(

Her newest vet, Dr. Im, called before we made it home to say they performed the ultrasound, but it was inconclusive. They will perform a liver scan in the morning. Hopefully, that will be definitive. If not they will do a dye injection to see where the blood is actually going. He says they almost always can find it that way. He did give me a bit of encouragement when he told me that most small dogs w/liver shunt have the kind that are correctable by surgery. I hope, hope, hope that's the case w/my baby.

I feel very comfortable with the level of knowledge and expertise of the specialists there. We were told if she needs surgery, the surgeon would be one of the best surgeons out there. He's also a top professor at UC Davis' Veterinary School, one of the best vet schools in the nation. This hospital Shadow's at is an amazing place...it's just like a "people" hospital. They have a "state-of-the-art" facility with specialists in surgery, internal medicine, neurology, chiropratic, acupuncture, and animal cancer care. They even have their own diagnostic MRI on the premises. Here's the link to their website, if any of you are interested.

http://www.acarc.com/

I think it was Derek who mentioned the cost of all this. Yes, it is becoming very expensive, this level of care isn't cheap. But, how could I do any less for her? Money is replaceable, her life isn't. I know each of you would probably do exactly the same for your babies.

Thank you all for your well wishes, thoughts and especially prayers. Shadow and I feel them. I'll post again when I know more.

God bless,
Leslie


----------



## Julie

We will keep praying for Shadow Leslie.......:hug:
Sounds like she has the best doctors looking out for her......


----------



## Cosmosmom

Thanks for the update Leslie . It sounds like your Shadow is in good hands .
Yes absolutely I would and did everything I could . You are right they deserve the best of care .
So happy to hear you found it .
Good luck tomorrow !!Cosmo & Ahnold send lickies for a quick recovery !!


----------



## Beamer

Leslie,

Hope Shadow gets better soon! Very sad to read about her like this!
I'm assuming you do not have insurance for shadow??
I just got insurance for Beamer.. after that $400 vet bill for xrays and whatever.. i'd rather pay a monthly fee and the 20% co-pay in the future... wow.. i bet its $$$$$$$$$$....


----------



## Cheryl

Leslie--We will continue to keep you and Shadow in our thoughts. I check back here frequently for your updates. Although I have never "met" you, I feel as though I am going through this with a friend. So , "Friend", keep us posted and know we are there for you.


----------



## Leslie

freeway1976 - Boy, do I wish we had ins. for her. Your $400 bill looks really good to me right now. As of today we have spent over $2500 and we haven't even gotten to surgery, if she needs it. My DH says when this is all over we'll have a $10,000 dog  I was in the process of investigating the various insurance plans available when all this began...guess I should have started looking sooner. We never had ins. for any of our other animals, but we were lucky, never had any big vet bills for them. This is definitely a lesson for me. I won't ever go without it again. Which plan do you have for Beamer?

Cheryl - What a wonderful thing to say, my friend. I, too, feel like so many of the folks here are my friends, even though we've never "met". I get the best support from this place. How blessed Shadow and I are to have found you all.


----------



## Beamer

Leslie,

Wow.. $2500 so far eh?? Just for testing and boarding and all that misc. stuff adds up i guess. 

We got PC Insurance for Beamer. Its about $40 a month. Still need to pay a small deductable, plus 20% of the vert fees.. that could also add up. and there are limits per year for the same accident/illneses... hmmmm


----------



## Havtahava

> He's also a top professor at UC Davis' Veterinary School, one of the best vet schools in the nation.


Oh, that's very encouraging and reassuring!

It sounds like they are going to do the best to make sure they find out the definitive problem for Shadow. It sounds like she is in really good hands.

I'm thinking of you a lot Leslie.


----------



## havanesebyha

Leslie,

I just read the entire thread and I am so very sorry to hear about little Shadow. She is in the best of care and with everyone pulling for her she has to recover quickly. My prayers and thoughts are with Shadow, you Leslie, and your family. Have faith she will be okay.

Hugs and kisses,
Libby & Kohana :grouphug: :hug:


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## Leslie

Kimberly,

I can receive PMs now. I didn't realize I had it turned off, sorry.


----------



## mckennasedona

Leslie,
Thank you for the updates on little Shadow. Both of you are in our thoughts. I hope all goes well for her today. 

I was listening to a talk radio show on my drive home yesterday and I caught the tail end of a show wherein the host was saying that it is immoral to spend thousands of dollars on a pet when that money could be better spent elsewhere. I was furious. Pets are not throwaways. If I make a commitment, I'm in for the long haul, no matter what it may bring. We spent $1750.00 for two days of testing, boarding, bloodwork, etc trying to save our Maggie several years ago. Even though she didn't make it, we don't regret one single cent. We would do it again in a heartbeat for our current pets. They more than deserve it.

Good luck to Shadow today.
Susan


----------



## TnTWalter

*Pet insurance...*

I'm pretty sure they exclude known problems in breeds and liver shunts are a known havanese issue. I could be wrong.

There was a debate about insurance and many had a clause excluding genetic defects. I can't remember the wording but it seemed like it might EXCLUDE many of the problems we face. I don't know if anyone who has insurance asked if certain items were covered, but I'd love to know.

Trish


----------



## Leslie

Thank you for understanding, Susan. I figure some folks will never "get" just how much these precious little ones mean to us. I guess they're allowed to have their opinions, but I won't allow them to affect my committment to find and provide (regardless the cost) the absolute best to care for what, or who, I'm responsible for. Those who are important to me understand and support what I'm doing...and that's all that matters.

I loved that yesterday at the hospital everyone there referred to Shadow as my baby: i.e. "How long has your baby been ill?" They _totally_ "get" it!

Thank you for your concern, understanding and well wishes. I'll update when I know anything more.

God bless


----------



## mintchip

havashadow said:


> Thank you for understanding, Susan. *I figure some folks will never "get" just how much these precious little ones mean to us. I guess they're allowed to have their opinions*, but I won't allow them to affect my committment to find and provide (regardless the cost) the absolute best to care for what, or who, I'm responsible for. Those who are important to me understand and support what I'm doing...and that's all that matters.
> 
> I loved that yesterday at the hospital everyone there referred to Shadow as my baby: i.e. "How long has your baby been ill?" They _totally_ "get" it!
> 
> Thank you for your concern, understanding and well wishes. I'll update when I know anything more.
> 
> God bless


Who cares what those "people" say! 
We are here for you if you need to talk.:grouphug: You are in our thoughts and prayers!
*Get well soon Shadow!!!
*
Sally


----------



## marbenv

Some people are just idiots when it comes to compassion for animals-- or people. 

They've obviously never had the love and joy that a beloved pet brings to the world. How could you do less than what you are doing now? We're not much of a human being if we don't take care for those we are obligated to care for. I could really get on a soap-box here about our "throw-away" society, but I won't. 

What's important is that Shadow gets well again and comes home to her loving family. I'm glad that she looked better to you and that you have that facility there for her. That's a real blessing that you have such qualified doctors. I'm sure she'll be home doing her RLH's soon.

Still praying for her and your family.

Marsha


----------



## Julie

marbenv said:


> What's important is that Shadow gets well again and comes home to her loving family. I'm glad that she looked better to you and that you have that facility there for her. That's a real blessing that you have such qualified doctors. I'm sure she'll be home doing her RLH's soon.
> 
> Still praying for her and your family.
> 
> Marsha


Ditto!

I feel the same way Leslie......keep positive thoughts.....:grouphug:

Julie and Quincy


----------



## Leslie

The vet just called, the liver scan won't happen until late this afternoon or early evening. The technician who does them can't get there until then. He has to take care of his people patients, first. So, we won't know the results until tomorrow morning. :frusty:  

Dr. Im did say she looks good and w/the support they're giving her (IV, etc.) is holding her own.


----------



## Havtahava

I bet this feels like it is neverending for you, Leslie. Hang in there.
Dr Im's report sounds reassuring.


----------



## dboudreau

The waiting is the worst part. Because Shadow is so sweet and loving, she is probably being spoiled by all the staff. 

My neighbour has a Jack Russell with a liver shunt. Surgery wasn't available 10 years ago when she was diagnosed, but she has had a great life, and still going strong. They have to be careful of her diet. But other than that she lives a normal active life.

Get well soon Shadow. :grouphug: 

PS. My sister's name is Leslie and my first dog's name was Shadow.


----------



## Leslie

Kimberly - neverending is right...just like a bad dream you can't wake up from...

Debbie - I know the staff is taking very good care of her and giving her lots of love, because I saw it yesterday. When we were being taken on the tour of the hospital, we wound up walking through the room where they had Shadow. She saw me and immediately began crying, scratching at the kennel door, and whimpering. I hurriedly left so she couldn't see me, since it was so hard on both of us. Well, when I got into the hallway, I could hear one of the nurses comforting her. I know she's being loved and getting her belly rubs.


----------



## Lina

Poor Shadow, she's missing her mommy a whole lot, I'm sure. But she's in the best of hands and will get much better soon, I'm sure of it! Leslie, you and Shadow are in my thoughts! :hug:


----------



## Leeann

Leslie its so nice to hear that Shadow is in a good place still getting her belly rubs. Not an hour goes by that I dont think of you & Shadow and all you are going through, thanks for keeping us updated. We will continue to send prayers your way.


----------



## MaddiesMom

Leslie- I'm so sorry you have to wait longer. I'm sure each hour that passes is so hard for you until you get some answers. Shadow seems to be in great hands, and that must be alot of comfort. Small and toy dogs tend to get extrahepatic shunts (meaning outside the liver). Those are the ones that are easier to treat with surgery. Hopefully the test today will pinpoint Shadow's problem and treatment can begin. We're all hoping for good news for Shadow and a quick recovery. :hug:


----------



## radar_jones

It really renews my faith in people when I see such precious Care being taken for Shadow....:whoo: 

I know I was reassured when Radar had his Nail Broken Off and the Vet was pretty knowledgeable with getting it out....nice and easy eventhough it really doesn't even compare to what is going on with Shadow, Not even close.

These things really have a way of working out but the process or getting to that point really sucks. I am really praying big time for Shadow and have even thought about a little Sunday Prayer or everyday for that matter in hoping for a speedy recovery. It'll come....Lots Of Hav hugs and kisses for Shadow.

:thumb: 

Derek


----------



## Missy

Leslie, I am just so glad you found this wonderful network or specialists and Dr's for Shadow. hang in there--- we are all with you, sending positive vibes to you and shadow through this very long haul. I too keep checking back every chance I get to see the latest news and am very grateful that with everything you are going through you are taking the time to report to us all. 

good karma, good Karma, good karma, good karma being sent out to little Shadow.


----------



## Leslie

Missy,

I find it cathartic to share with those who care. Thanks, guys. You're awesome!


----------



## radar_jones

Thanks for the update..... Glad to hear she's eating a bit. At least there's that. The Hydration Factor is very important so it's good to see she's drinking at least. 

Having Happy thoughts and keeping our chins up for both of you.....:biggrin1: 

Derek


----------



## Leslie

Friday AM update:

Still nothing definite. The liver scan showed there is probably no shunt. Yea! _However_, Dr. Im says there is definitely something going on w/her liver, even though it appears there is no shunt. He is now thinking it may be Microvascular Dysplasia. The only way to find out exactly what is causing all this, is to do what he called "exploratory surgery". He says, after conferring w/the other specialists, they need to do a liver biopsy to find out more. I trust their judgement. So, it looks like she will have surgery either late this afternoon or early tomorrow morning (he needs to see what the surgeon's schedule is)

Here's a link to a page describing Microvascular Dysplasia for any who are interested.

http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/HealthConditions/SmallAnimalTopics/HMD/


----------



## Laurief

Oh Leslie, this must be so hard on you and your family!! You are such a good mommy for making sure that Shadow gets everything needed!! We are all praying for Shadow!
Laurie


----------



## anneks

Poor Shadow! I hope the find what is wrong soon so that they can make her all better!!! I hope you are holding up ok as well. The waiting and not knowing has to be horrible. Take care of yourself and hopefully soon Shadow will be home with you. She will need a lot of attention when she does come home.


----------



## marjrc

Oh my, so much going on and it's very hard to stay home and just wait. Leslie, I feel for you and weep when I hear about how Shadow cries for you when she sees you. You are strong, though, and are doing everything possible to help her out. She is in a great place which is half the battle, I think. 

Positive vibes going out your way and many (((hugs)))! You are both in my thoughts.


----------



## dboudreau

Poor Shadow, such an ordeal for such a little pup. Lets hope the surgery gives you some answers, and then on to the road to recovery. Hang in there.:grouphug:


----------



## Doggie Nut

Leslie....thank you for the update on Shadow. You have really been through it....my heart & prayers go out to you and your family.....My prayer remains the same....wisdom for the doctors and a good recovery for little Shadow until he is back home with those that love him....it's where he belongs. I know it may be difficult but try not to worry too much....don't want you getting sick from stress.


----------



## Havtahava

These little bodies are just amazing. They can have so many things go wrong (or just abnormal) and look what happens? I hope the surgeons can figure out the problem. I'm glad to see that you have confidence in them. That makes it so much easier than when you question their judgement.


----------



## Havtahava

Oh wow - I just started reading the link you provided. So, they are going in and going to look at the blood vessels in there? That's amazing.

Thankfully, the treatment options look fairly easy (in comparison to some other situations).

No matter what, I hope they get to the root of Shadow's ailments quickly.


----------



## Leslie

Kimberly,

I was encouraged when I read this from that webpage: _"Prognosis is good for most dogs with HMD. Most dogs are clinically normal with medical management and many have normal life spans."_

This has been such a rollercoaster ride, though, I hate to get my hopes up too high.


----------



## Doggie Nut

Leslie, how old is Shadow? Didn't you say he is small for his age? I suppose maybe whatever is going on may have contributed to that.


----------



## Havtahava

I hear you, especially since you don't even know if he has HMD yet.

(Check your email.)


----------



## Leslie

Vicki,

She's 8 mos. old (will be 9 mos. Aug. 8) and weighed 5.3 lbs. as of this past Monday.


----------



## Doggie Nut

Wow, she is tiny! Has she lost any weight from this ordeal?


----------



## MopTop Havanese

Wow, what a rollercoaster of emotions you and Shadow have been thru!
Keep your chin up and I will continue to think "strong" thoughts for Shadow~
I hope you can get some definate answers soon!


----------



## Leslie

Doggie Nut said:


> Wow, she is tiny! Has she lost any weight from this ordeal?


Yes, she's lost a bit. Her highest "official" (on vet's scales) weight was 6 lbs. at 6 mos old.


----------



## Julie

Oh my goodness......I never knew she was so tiny!Wow!Quincy was 5.3 lbs.at 16 weeks!Her picture just makes her look like a big girl! (average size)Hopefully you'll hear good news soon!

Did your breeder tell you she would be a tiny one?


----------



## Leslie

Julie said:


> Did your breeder tell you she would be a tiny one?


Yes, we knew. The entire litter was on the small side and she was the "runt". However, we didn't think she would be quite this tiny. The dam weighs 10 lb. and the sire weighs 8 lb. But, I'm sure this liver "thing" has affected her growth, too.


----------



## Leeann

Leslie,

I dont know how you are doing it, you are one strong woman with a big heart. I know everyones prayers are helping you a lot if there is anything else any of us can do let us know, I'm sure everyone would do whatever they can to help you get through this. We all say a prayer for you everynight before bed with hopes that Shadow will be better and back home with you.


----------



## Missy

Oh Leslie, I am so sorry to hear that. But the "no liver shunt" is good news and the article does sound optimistic. I think we are all just heartbroken for you and Shadow. This could be anyone of us going through this. Is the surgery for the biopsy a big deal? do they have to cut or is it laproscopic(sp?) ? Keep us posted--- I may or may not have internet connection next week on vacation- but I will be checking in until then and be praying for the best possible outcome.


----------



## Leslie

Missy said:


> Is the surgery for the biopsy a big deal? do they have to cut or is it laproscopic(sp?) ?


They have to cut. Dr. Im says all surgery carries risk and since she's "compromised" (his word) her risk is a bit higher. But, he thinks this is the only way to find out what is wrong. Without the surgery and biopsy, since she refuses to eat and those liver #'s are high, she probably would not live. So, for me, it's a "no brainer", surgery it is.


----------



## radar_jones

Oh My God.....I'm so worried for you but I'm sure it'll work out fine.....Best Wishes.....Now We really have to Up the Prayers People for a speedy recovery. Lot's of Havie wellwishes....:hug: :kiss: 

Derek


----------



## lfung5

Leslie,
I am so sorry for what you are dealing with. I understand what you are going through. Shadow is lucky to have such a great mommy taking such good care of her. I hope everything works out.

Have you contacted the breeder to let her know what was going on?? She will probably give you a full refund. No that that matters with everything else going on, but I'm sure it would help towards some of the bills.

You're in my prayers.


----------



## radar_jones

I would not want to be the Breeder right now....the worry level must me high....Very High.

Derek


----------



## Amy R.

Sending warmest thoughts for little Shadow's full recovery.


----------



## Leslie

lfung5 said:


> Have you contacted the breeder to let her know what was going on?? She will probably give you a full refund. No that that matters with everything else going on, but I'm sure it would help towards some of the bills.
> 
> You're in my prayers.


Yes, the breeder knows it all, I update her as often as I do you guys. She has offered a full refund of Shadow's purchase price to help with the costs we're incuring. _*Plus*_ the deposit we have w/her for another puppy, _*plus*_ she is offering us another puppy for free. She is absolutely devastated by all this.


----------



## radar_jones

Now that's what I call standing by your word and the breed..Very Nice of the breeder to offer that to you...Very ethical.

Derek


----------



## Missy

Leslie, that is one amazing breeder. I am guessing she will be having her bitch and the sire checked as well. My heart is aching for poor little 6lb shadow and for you and your whole family. You can just tell from her picture that she is a fighter. Of course you couldn't do anything else. They are family. Big Hug to you- you are being so brave as well as your little girl. She must miss you so much.


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## Laurief

Wow Leslie - you picked a great breeder. Some would say that they would give your $ back, but take the pup back, and once you have fallen in love, its not like you are going to do that!! You can tell her that I commend her for being an honest , caring, upfront person!! Sadly they are hard to find!

Wish we could all be there to help you and Shadow thru all of this, it is hard, but I am very optimistic!! Kisses & Hugs to Shadow.
lAURIE


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## RedHeadedGator

Leslie - Loads of hugs and prayers your way for little Shadow and you and your family. We are thinking of you all in this time of need.


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## MaddiesMom

Leslie- I know this must be a very difficult time for you. But an "open" liver biopsy is the only way to give a definitive answer. A needle biopsy is often used (my previous "liver" dog had a needle biopsy), but its really a hit and miss situation. Shadow seems to be in excellent hands, and I'm sure this last procedure will give you the diagnosis you need. We're all thinking and praying for you and Shadow. Ask your specialist if you can start her on Marin and Denosyl (Milk Thistle and Sam-e). You can buy them online, and they support the liver. There are several online groups with dogs that have HMD, and if you PM me, I'll give you the info. Anything that any of us can do to offer support, don't hesitate to ask. I'll be thinking of your little girl, and wish the best for you both. :hug:


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## lfung5

Wow, she sounds like a caring breeder that loves each and everyone of her pups. I am glad you have her support.


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## Leslie

For those of you wondering about her size, here's a picture of her playing w/a small, square Kleenex box. You can see she's a little more than twice the size of the box. Sorry I don't have her next to anything else I thought everybody could relate to.


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## Beamer

Beamer is quite small as well.. He will be 5 months old on the the 8th of August. He is right at 4 1/2 pounds right now. My wife was just saying yesterday that she wishes he stays this size for ever.. lol..


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## lfung5

She look like the size of my bella. She was 4lbs at 7 months old, but is now 6lb at 3 years. I try everything to get her to gain weight. She has an endless supply of food, but could care less. Take care of you baby!


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## radar_jones

I hope Radar gets a lot bigger than he is. I would estimate right now he's gotta be at least 7lbs.

Derek


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## Cosmosmom

You know that saying be careful what you wish for ,, Even though I have not weighed him in a while I would say Cosmo weighs at least 16 lbs and he is a little over 21 inches long . He does not fit in a sherpa anymore 

Right now we wish Shadow the best of care and get well soon and we wish she is home soon with her Mom & Dad where she belongs happy and healthy .. Good luck little one ..
Wonderful beeder as well ..


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## radar_jones

I want radar to be a big hav....I love really big dogs so having him a little bigger than average will make me feel as though I have a bigger dog....Muscle Dog......Yeah...

Derek


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## lfung5

I can't see Radar ever being a macho type dog!! Hee hee.


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## Jan D

I check back often to read your updates on Shadow. 

Good luck...you have to stay positive  I'm sure this will all work out OK.


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## juliav

Leslie,

I wish little Shadow best of luck with the surgery and a positive outcome. I hope she'll be home with you soon, happy and healthy. What a wonderful breeder you have, she is really standing by her puppy.


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## mckennasedona

Leslie,
We are still praying for Shadow's recovery and for your family as well. This has to be so difficult for all of you. Are you able to visit Shadow or do they prefer you not do that? Your breeder sounds like a wonderful, caring person. There are several out there and you've been lucky enough to find one.

Susan


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## Cheryl

Leslie--a roler coaster is right. The ups and downs you have been through is unbelievable. I suppose that is how it is with a very sick "child." 

I was heartened to hear how supportive your breeder has been. She must be suffering a long with you. 

I have to say, your posts are the first I look at tin the morning and the first I look at afterwork. I think of you and Shadow often and my heart goes out to you and to all of those who love Shadow. 

I also keep thinking at which point your original vet would have thought thaT Shadow needed more tests.


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang

Leslie,

You and Shadow have been in my thoughts and prayers since this started. You must be so relieved that a liver shunt has been ruled out! So now I'll be hoping and praying that whatever they find it'll be something easily treatable.

All the fur kids here are sending Shadow warm hugs and healing vibes! :grouphug: 

Wanda


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## judith

leslie, thanks for keeping us updated, our thoughts and prayers are with you and shadow. best wishes.... judith


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## ama0722

Leslie,
I am glad you and the breeder have joined up to get the best of care and hope everything goes as smooth as possible. You might want to check the yahoo groups for this type of illness and see if there is a forum to help get answers or understand treatment options. How scary for your family and we are all here for you.

Amanda


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## dotndani

Leslie,
I hope Shadow has a speedy return to his old self.Hugs to you!!


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## good buddy

Leslie, treat yourself well and try to get some rest when you can. These things can make you ill they are so troubling.  I hope they find out for sure just what the problem is and soon! Sorry you are going through so much stress. Your holding it together really well and taking very good care of your baby! I understand just how you feel! I am praying for Shadow. Gee, I hope you get some answers soon!


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## TnTWalter

*Hoping Shadow does well in surgery*

and you hear good news... Big [[[[[[[[[[[HAVAHUG]]]]]]]]]]]] to you both.

But....


havashadow said:


> Yes, the breeder knows it all, I update her as often as I do you guys. She has offered a full refund of Shadow's purchase price to help with the costs we're incuring. _*Plus*_ the deposit we have w/her for another puppy, _*plus*_ she is offering us another puppy for free. She is absolutely devastated by all this.


I am really impressed with your breeder. Big [[[[[[[HAVAHUG]]]]]]] to her too.

Trish


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## Sunnygirl

Leslie, Nico and I are sending positive thoughts. I hope all goes well with Shadow's surgery and that they're able to quickly figure out what's wrong. I cannot even imagine what you're going through - these little ones work their way into your heart so quickly. And kudos to your breeder - it sounds like she's doing the right thing by you.


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## Cheryl

Leslie--I think that I should warn you that biopsies are not a slam dunk--meaning you get a diagnosis right away. The vet will have a clue after visualizing the liver, but the absolute diagnosis could take a couple weeks.


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## Leslie

You guys are absolutely amazing! Your support is a big part of my strength through all this. The rest comes from my faith in God and love of Jesus. I don't mean to preach or offend anyone, but this is what I know to be true in my life. 

This is not the first time I've dealt with a very sick "child". Twenty-nine years ago, my son was born with a congenital eye disease. By the time he was 2 yrs. old he had had 12 major eye surgeries and countless hospitalizations to assess how he was doing. By the time he started school I'd lost count of his surgeries/hospitalizations. And when all was said and done I know they numbered in the hundreds. He is legally blind even with all the interventions and amazing technological advances he's been the recipient of. 

Four year ago my granddaughter was born with problems which still have not been fully diagnosed. She is mentally and physically retarded. All of this has been very difficult, but I have survived and become a stronger, better person as a result. Now, having 20/20 hindsight, I know it was God and the support of friends and family who got me through. I didn't have the strength to make it through these difficult circumstances I've dealt with in the past nor do I have it now. It is only His hand and your prayers that get me through. Thank you all so very much. 

God bless you all. You truly are making an impact for Shadow and me.


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## radar_jones

Leslie I can say for myself that I'm not a very religious person by any stretch. I don't attend Church eventhough I really should. I beleive there's "Something Out There" if you know what I mean. There is this one being....one entity if you will that takes different forms for each of us that one "god" we believe to exist for us alone depending on our faith system.

I believe that you were put on this earth to be a Caregiver...if you will. You have within you an inherent strength to face adversity and come out unscathed....albeit it might seem at times that the will is neither too strong nor the love too weak but your one of the fighters in this world....someone to look to for strength and guidance. 

At times we think that it will often never end..like it's always going to be this dark shadow of doubt and deception in our lives. Like we can never win or that we will never be able to get up and not have to face adversity all over again...sometimes we just want to Rest and have it all go away.

You appear to be faced with many life challenges and one of thise at this time is with "Shadow". Our pets...our companions.....our friends are just like the people we love....our family members. We would do whatever it takes to help them and that's you...that's the essence that makes the type of person that you are. 

Let's face it...when we come home from either the worst or one of the worst days at work and were in the worst mood and it seems like nothing can get us going again...who's there to give us a tail waig' or a facewash?? Our dog gives us unconditional love through and through...all the time and it's up to us to repay that in kind...we are the ones to love them back just as they have done to us.

Take delicate care of yourself Leslie....We are all here wating for you...you are the one Shadow will be looking for when it's all said and done.

God Bless.

Derek.


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## Leslie

Thank you Derek. You're a gem!


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## radar_jones

My Absolute Pleasure.

Derek


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## Leeann

Leslie, it is amazing how your faith in god can bring you a long way. I remember when my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, she was going in for surgery to see if it could be removed or not, for some reason I grabbed my wedding candle said a prayer and lit my candle. I left it burning till surgery was over and continue to pray all would be o.k. If the cancer was not removable they gave her 6 months to live if they were able to remove it they gave her a 5% chance of living 5 years. Well that surgery took place 8 years ago and my mom is still cancer free. ( crying as I am writing it still hurts to think of all she's been through) To this day I still have my candle, I only light it for special prayers and once a year for my mom when she has to go through all her testing again. I have been lighting my candle for shadow and will light it again today and say a prayer for her. Hopefully the biopsy will be done today and we will have some good news.


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## marbenv

Leeann,

What a beautiful gesture for Leslie and Shadow.

Leslie,

I am glad to know that it is your faith in God and trust in Jesus that is bringing you through this. Continued peace for you and your family and healing for Shadow.

Marsha


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## Missy

Derek, Beautifully put. 

Leslie, we are all talking to who ever we talk to on Shadow's behalf. I am happy that you have found the strength you need repeatedly through your life. This has turned into a very rich thread and I pray that all this support reaps great rewards for you and your little girl.


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## Judy A

More prayers on your behalf from Illinois....

God is an amazing God.....

Judy


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## Leslie

Sat. update:

Ok guys, I'm ready to scream!!! 

Dr. Im called to say Shadow's pre-op blood work came back w/very high amylase and lypase levels, which means she probably has pancreatitis. This was her original diagnosis before the liver shunt. He says she can't have surgery until this is cleared up and she is stable. This was a surprise to him. Seems she ate twice yesterday w/out vomiting but, when she was given some oral medication during the night last night, she vomited. He does think there is still a strong possibility of HMD (Hepatic Microvascular Dysplasia). The treatment for the pancreatitis is nothing by mouth and medication for 24-48 hrs. This is similar to what was done by the last vet, Dr. C. However, Dr. Im is including the medication, whereas Dr. C. only fasted her.

After researching HMD and finding out the treatment for it is mainly diet and liver support (milk thistle and SAM-e), I'm having second thoughts about the "open" surgery. Dr. Im says a needle biopsy isn't an option. However, he did say they could possibly do what he called a "puncture biopsy" where they basically use a larger needle to retrieve more cells. He says that if they do the open surgery, though, they can see, not only the liver but her other organs and take biopsies of them if any of them appear questionable, as well. 

So, no surgery today. I'll keep you posted.


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## Cheryl

Leslie I am screaming with you. Sh:frusty: t! sh:frusty: t! SH:frusty: T!

Ok, here are my thoughts using primarily people physiology to base it on. So somebody let me know if puppy medicine would be different. I think "something" has been going on with Shadow since she was 6 months old. That was whn she weighed 6# and then her weight decreased by about 10% over the next 2 months. That is not usual. Her orginal symptoms of nausea, vomitng, anorexia, lethargy were consistent with Pancreatitis. Did her pancreatic enzymes ever return to normal or did she just become asymptomatic? If her enzymes returned to normal, there is another underlying condition that is causing the recurring pancreatitis. Liver disease can cause this, but I am unsure if HMD is one of the possible causes. Ask your doctor. Also ask your doctor what kind of things that he would be able to visualize in an open operation that would have caused these symptoms, lab results. What are the treatment options if he finds any of these possiblities? Would it be reasonable to to try Shadow on a liver supportive diet with supplements to see how she does? 

Leslie, you have done a lot of reading. Now come up with a list of questions. Ask your vet if you can turn on your answering machine during the converstion so that you can tape it and replay it so you can remember the things you may have missed the first time around. 

Later today, I will do some reading myself and try to come up with additional questions for you.


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## Brady's mom

Oh Leslie, my thoughts are with you. It must be so frustrating to not be getting any answers. Thank you for keeping us all informed as we are all concerned about Shadow. I will pray that this all gets resolved soon!


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## juliav

Leslie,

I am so sorry to hear that there are still more hurdles for Shadow and you to overcome. I can understand your frustration, I am frustrated just reading about it. Hang in there, Bugsy, Brandy Romeo and I are sending healing thoughts and our prayers a positive outcome. 

Best,


----------



## Missy

Oh Lesley, I am so frustrated along with you. I think Cheryl has some excellent advice. And I think her reasoning in getting there is very sound. I would want to save Shadow the surgery, especially if there was no way to guarantee it would be conclusive. Have you been able to visit Shadow in all this time? You must be missing her terribly and I know she is missing you. I hope you get answers soon. Hugs and Belly Rubs and wet puppy kisses from the boys.


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## good buddy

ARGGGGGGHHHHH!! :frusty: Gosh that is so frustrating!! It feels like they are turning you in circles! I wish I had some information that could help! All I can do is be frustrated right along with you and STILL I am praying for SOMEONE to come up with some answers for you! We all just want Shadow to be well.


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## Leslie

We just came back from the hospital. We haven't seen her since Wed. afternoon when we left her because it's over an hour's drive each way w/out traffic (you can add 20-30 min. each way during weekday traffic) As you can see, I got to hold and snuggle her. We were with her for an hour. She is so small (4.1 lb. as of this AM), weak and pitiful. She was so happy to see us when we arrived, but in her condition all she could muster was a tail wag and some whimpering. I took the pillowcase I've been sleeping on for her to keep w/her. I plan to go back again tomorrow.


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## mintchip

:grouphug:Get Well Soon Shadow!!!!:hug: :grouphug:


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## mckennasedona

Leslie,
That photo is so sweet but sad. Poor little Shadow. Get well soon little one!!

Susan


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## Cheryl

Leslie--it must have broke your heart to leave her. Poor Shadow and Poor Leslie. Thanks for keeping us posted. My heart breaks for you.....


----------



## Havtahava

Leslie, I got your message and had to jump online to read the latest. How terribly frustrating for you.

That photo is so sweet. I just had to hug Hillary after reading that. 

Hugs to you.


----------



## Doggie Nut

Leslie, that photo brings tears to my eyes....I can only imagine how difficult it was to leave her there. My prayers will continue.


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## Leslie

lbkar said:


> Leslie, it is amazing how your faith in god can bring you a long way. I remember when my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, she was going in for surgery to see if it could be removed or not, for some reason I grabbed my wedding candle said a prayer and lit my candle. I left it burning till surgery was over and continue to pray all would be o.k. If the cancer was not removable they gave her 6 months to live if they were able to remove it they gave her a 5% chance of living 5 years. Well that surgery took place 8 years ago and my mom is still cancer free. ( crying as I am writing it still hurts to think of all she's been through) To this day I still have my candle, I only light it for special prayers and once a year for my mom when she has to go through all her testing again. * I have been lighting my candle for shadow and will light it again today and say a prayer for her.* Hopefully the biopsy will be done today and we will have some good news.


Leeann, 
That is beyond special, my friend. The tears are streaming down my face. I am overwhelmed by the tremendous support you all are giving me. Thank you, thank you, thank you!


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## Laurief

Leslie - What a precious picture! I am sure that Shadow was so happy to see you, and I am sure it will help in the recovery process too. I think of Shadow all day & continue to say my prayers for her. Thanks for keeping us all informed, she has a special place in all our hearts and appreciate knowing how she is doing. Although we are not all "in your area" is there anything that we do for you, to help you out at all??
Laurie


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## MaddiesMom

Oh Leslie, I'm *so* sorry you are going around in circles. You must be so drained and worried. When I see that picture of darling little Shadow, I can't help but have tears in my eyes. I wish there was an easy answer to all of this, but these liver issues can be so complicated. As far as an "open" biopsy, there are pros and cons. The pro is that the vet can visualize the liver, and can biopsy suspicious areas with enough tissue to get a more definitive diagnosis. The con is that it is major surgery and anesthesia in a liver compromised dog can be a real problem. Your specialist is the best person to know Shadow's condition and ability to handle the anesthesia. Another factor is that liver dogs tend to bleed easily. When my Panda had a simpler needle biopsy, I was warned about the bleeding possibility, but her pro-time test was decent enough to proceed. The downside of a needle biopsy is that often it misses the affected area and is inconclusive. You could use a large needle as the specialist suggested and have a better chance, but its still a hit and miss situation. The other problem is that the doctor may not get enough tissue through needle biopsy for diagnosis. Only you can make the decision for Shadow and its not an easy one. In making the decision, ask the specialist if Shadow can withstand an open biopsy. Perhaps it can be done laproscopic with less risk?

I was so touched by the trials you have had in your life. Your faith will give you strength to get through this. Hugs to both you and your little girl.


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## mintchip

Get well soon Shadow!!
(I'm pulling out my heavy duty knee pads!!!)


----------



## Leslie

Cheryl said:


> Leslie I am screaming with you. Sh:frusty: t! sh:frusty: t! SH:frusty: T!
> 
> Ok, here are my thoughts using primarily people physiology to base it on. So somebody let me know if puppy medicine would be different. I think "something" has been going on with Shadow since she was 6 months old. That was whn she weighed 6# and then her weight decreased by about 10% over the next 2 months. That is not usual. Her orginal symptoms of nausea, vomitng, anorexia, lethargy were consistent with Pancreatitis. Did her pancreatic enzymes ever return to normal or did she just become asymptomatic? If her enzymes returned to normal, there is another underlying condition that is causing the recurring pancreatitis. Liver disease can cause this, but I am unsure if HMD is one of the possible causes. Ask your doctor. Also ask your doctor what kind of things that he would be able to visualize in an open operation that would have caused these symptoms, lab results. What are the treatment options if he finds any of these possiblities? Would it be reasonable to to try Shadow on a liver supportive diet with supplements to see how she does?
> 
> Leslie, you have done a lot of reading. Now come up with a list of questions. Ask your vet if you can turn on your answering machine during the converstion so that you can tape it and replay it so you can remember the things you may have missed the first time around.
> 
> Later today, I will do some reading myself and try to come up with additional questions for you.


Cheryl,

Thank you for helping me think, and not just feel, about this. Any info or questions you can provide will be most appreciated.

Dr. Im did say we could have the option of bringing her home once she's stable and over the pancreatitis, try the liver diet and supplements, and if she doesn't improve we could do surgery for the biopsy then. Any thoughts on that?


----------



## Laurief

Leslie, that sounds like great news. If he is willing to send her home and try the diet would make me think that maybe she is doing better. If you get to take her home I am sure that will be a relief to you .


----------



## MaddiesMom

You know Leslie....if Shadow stabilizes and starts to eat (her new diet), you could take her home and see how she does. If she does have HMD, you'd just be doing the treatment for it without the diagnosis. If the biopsy showed HMD, that's what you'd be doing anyway. Treatment is supportive of the liver. I guess it would all depend on Shadow's condition. Let's hope she stabilizes, gets her appetite back (on a lower protein diet) and can come home. That would be wonderful!!


----------



## lfung5

Leslie,
I know what you are going through. Have peace knowing everyone is concerned about Shadow.


----------



## Havtahava

I was doing some reading and am not sure if I fully grasp this, but with HMD, she needs a low protein diet, right? With pancreatitis, she needs a low protein, low fat diet, right? Stabilizing _should _(emphasis on should) happen after 24 hours of fasting and plenty of fluids.

So, is it safe to assume that after her pancreas is stable, that you can take her home and control this with diet and monitor her - without any surgery?? Is that a correct summation?

By the way, as I was reading, I found it interesting that pancreatitis in dogs seems to be very similar to what a human relative of ours just experienced twice recently.


----------



## Julie

:angel:.......continued prayers for your little Shadow.....:angel:

Very heartwarming to see the picture of you cuddling that little fur girl...I bet she'll get better soon,for more hugs from Momma......thank you for the pix and sharing...


----------



## TnTWalter

*Leslie...*

thanks for sharing your life with us. It is so encouraging to see the picture of you two together.

I can imagine your frustration. But if they don't have to do surgery, that woudl be a wonderful blessing.

Thanks for keeping us posted. Many of us [I know I do] are watching for your updates.

You are in our thoughts and prayers.

Trish


----------



## havanesebyha

Leslie,

My heart sure goes out to you for being so strong. I keep praying for little Shadow and know that her seeing you at this point can be the best medicine for her. Do go back tomorrow and stay with her as long as they let you. 

My daughter went through this twice with her Bichon Frise and was in the hospital over a week on IV's both times. His levels were all elevated like Shadows and both times they fasted him for 48 hours and then slowly started to feed him. Throughout both times he was so sick and lethargic and constantly vomited. My daughter went to hold him and stay with him as much as possible and this really helped him to recover. He never had surgery, but he did have every test and procedure imagineable. Shadow needs to know you are nearby so she keeps fighting and gets better. My daughter is down in San Diego and had some of the best vets in the country looking after their little guy (he also is tiny - started at 5 pounds before being sick). Leslie, the point is he is fine now on a very careful diet, but he is his happy self and doing very well now. I would let them fast her and then if they say it's okay to take her home and feed her the special diet I would do so, but do anticipate some set backs, but you can always take her back in and recheck with her same vets she has now. She should do much better at home where she can see and hear you, but you will know you can return if you need their help again. 

I sure am thinking of you, Shadow and your family and if I can do anything please just say so......

God Bless you and Shadow,

Libby & Kohana :kiss: :grouphug:


----------



## Leslie

MaddiesMom said:


> Oh Leslie, I'm *so* sorry you are going around in circles. You must be so drained and worried. When I see that picture of darling little Shadow, I can't help but have tears in my eyes. I wish there was an easy answer to all of this, but these liver issues can be so complicated. As far as an "open" biopsy, there are pros and cons. The pro is that the vet can visualize the liver, and can biopsy suspicious areas with enough tissue to get a more definitive diagnosis. The con is that it is major surgery and anesthesia in a liver compromised dog can be a real problem. Your specialist is the best person to know Shadow's condition and ability to handle the anesthesia. Another factor is that liver dogs tend to bleed easily. When my Panda had a simpler needle biopsy, I was warned about the bleeding possibility, but her pro-time test was decent enough to proceed. The downside of a needle biopsy is that often it misses the affected area and is inconclusive. You could use a large needle as the specialist suggested and have a better chance, but its still a hit and miss situation. The other problem is that the doctor may not get enough tissue through needle biopsy for diagnosis. Only you can make the decision for Shadow and its not an easy one. In making the decision, ask the specialist if Shadow can withstand an open biopsy. Perhaps it can be done laproscopic with less risk?
> 
> I was so touched by the trials you have had in your life. Your faith will give you strength to get through this. Hugs to both you and your little girl.


Jeanne,

All the pros and cons you mention are exactly the ones he told me about. He also said we could get her over the pancreatitis, bring her home begin the liver diet and supplements, see how she does, then do surgery later. Any thoughts on that?

Oops! You already gave me your thoughts in a post that came through as I was writing this. Thanks! I am encouraged he thinks she may be able to come home once her pancreas stabilizes and she can eat on her own.


----------



## Cheryl

Here are a couple thoughts to consider: Shadow has lost almost 1/3 of her body weight in a point in her life when she should have been growing? Is she strong enough to survive surgery? Have they done any coagulation studies to evaluate her potential for bleeding? What would be the worst case scenario of bringing her home and trying a diet? Would it be just postponing the surgery--so what are those risks? Are there any benefits of her trying to get a bit stronger prior to surgery? Is there a chance that she would do well enough on her diet that she would not need surgery? What would the vet do if Shadow were his dog? 

Leslie, I only know how to ask questions at this point. I am sorry for that. I wish I had some answers.


----------



## Leslie

Havtahava said:


> I was doing some reading and am not sure if I fully grasp this, but with HMD, she needs a low protein diet, right? With pancreatitis, she needs a low protein, low fat diet, right? Stabilizing _should _(emphasis on should) happen after 24 hours of fasting and plenty of fluids.
> 
> *So, is it safe to assume that after her pancreas is stable, that you can take her home and control this with diet and monitor her - without any surgery?? Is that a correct summation?*
> 
> By the way, as I was reading, I found it interesting that pancreatitis in dogs seems to be very similar to what a human relative of ours just experienced twice recently.


That's what he seems to be saying. He still thinks it would be best to eventually do the biopsy to be sure, though. He says to be able to actually see the organ could give them much information. Also, he said they would take tissue samples from other areas when they were in there so other things could be ruled out.


----------



## Leslie

Dr. Im is off for the next 2 days and Dr. Carney will be taking over Shadow's immediate care. All of the specialists there are familiar w/all of the current cases in the hospital, so I'm not concerned about her taking over at all. I will talk to her tomorrow to see what her answers to my (our  questions are. 

Cheryl- Funny you mention asking him what he would do if it were his dog. I asked him that very question this morning on the phone, he said that was difficult to give an answer to and never did give me one... I think I may ask Dr. Carney that question tomorrow when I speak w/her to see what she says.


----------



## Havtahava

> Shadow has lost almost 1/3 of her body weight in a point in her life when she should have been growing? Is she strong enough to survive surgery?


Wow, that's a really good question to ask.

Leslie, my inclination would be to wait if you can (but that's just my heart -not experience or any knowledge), just so she can recover and gain some of the weight and go home for some loving and comfortable care. Of course, that's assuming her pancreas stablizes and she would be OK to come home.


----------



## Leslie

havanesebyha said:


> Leslie,
> 
> My heart sure goes out to you for being so strong. I keep praying for little Shadow and know that her seeing you at this point can be the best medicine for her. Do go back tomorrow and stay with her as long as they let you.
> 
> My daughter went through this twice with her Bichon Frise and was in the hospital over a week on IV's both times. His levels were all elevated like Shadows and both times they fasted him for 48 hours and then slowly started to feed him. Throughout both times he was so sick and lethargic and constantly vomited. My daughter went to hold him and stay with him as much as possible and this really helped him to recover. He never had surgery, but he did have every test and procedure imagineable. Shadow needs to know you are nearby so she keeps fighting and gets better. My daughter is down in San Diego and had some of the best vets in the country looking after their little guy (he also is tiny - started at 5 pounds before being sick). Leslie, the point is he is fine now on a very careful diet, but he is his happy self and doing very well now. I would let them fast her and then if they say it's okay to take her home and feed her the special diet I would do so, but do anticipate some set backs, but you can always take her back in and recheck with her same vets she has now. She should do much better at home where she can see and hear you, but you will know you can return if you need their help again.
> 
> I sure am thinking of you, Shadow and your family and if I can do anything please just say so......
> 
> God Bless you and Shadow,
> 
> Libby & Kohana :kiss: :grouphug:


Libby,

I so wish she was closer. I know it would only help her if I could be w/her more. I am going tomorrow and spending as much time as I can. It seemed to help her having me there today. There is an outside chance I can go on Mon., too. Pray that things work out for that, too please...


----------



## Cheryl

Leslie--sometimes you have to force doctors to give a preference because they do not know where you are coming from. So you state "I know that you want to do the best for Shadow and I know you want to do the best for my family and I, so ifffff Shadow was your dog, what would you do and why?


----------



## Leslie

Thanks, Cheryl. I've put together a Word document w/all the ?'s suggested by you and other to take w/me tomorrow. I'll be checking again in the morning before I leave to see if there's anything new to add.


----------



## radar_jones

That's a great idea Leslie. The good thing about this forum is that we all come from different places and we all know different people and we can all offer different types of support to you...

And the Forum is Free!!

What a prosperous relationship.

Best of luck on your next visit...

Derek.........:hug:


----------



## Missy

Oh Leslie, I wish I had answers or even more questions for you. But I am sending prayers. I know that the cuddle from mom was probably the best medicine Shadow could get. Best of luck today.


----------



## JASHavanese

havashadow said:


> Libby,
> 
> I so wish she was closer. I know it would only help her if I could be w/her more. I am going tomorrow and spending as much time as I can. It seemed to help her having me there today. There is an outside chance I can go on Mon., too. Pray that things work out for that, too please...


You're both in our prayers. :hug:


----------



## good buddy

We'll continue to pray here for Shadow. I love to see you were able to hold her, but it's also so sad she is going through this. Your having to make hard decisions and it feels like the vets aren't ginving you difinitive answers. It's all so frustrating. Cheryl has some good ideas for questions you can ask. I've asked my vet what would they do if it were there animal before.


----------



## Rita

Oh Leslie. My heart is breaking for you and Shadow. Houston and I are sending you good vibes with lots of Hav L& K. We are praying for you guys.


----------



## Leslie

Sun. update:

We just returned from spending the morning (about 3 hrs) at the hospital w/her. She looked better and seemed a bit stronger today than yesterday. The best part was they disconnected her IV for about 1/2 hr. and let us take her outside to the grassy area in front of the hospital. She really liked that. Unfortunately, she whimpered and tried to wriggle free from me when we had to go back inside so she could be reconnected to the IV. I did sit and hold her for quite awhile, so long in fact, she was able to take a little nap in my arms.

We left to go have lunch, intending to come back and stay for another hour or so, but we couldn't go back into the ICU/CCU area where she is being kept because there were 2 car accident cases brought in so we were barred from being in there.

Here's the latest report from the vet. Dr. Carr, who's taking over for Dr. Im while he's off for 2 days, said she was responding well to the therapy for the pancreatitis. She hasn't vomited for a day and a half. He will begin giving water by mouth this afternoon and try giving her food this evening. His goal is for her to take it by herself and keep it down. He says if she does that for several feedings he thinks she could come home. YEA!!! 

He thinks she needs to regain strength and weight before undergoing the liver biopsy. Sounds good to me. He agrees w/Dr. Im completely that all signs are pointing to HMD. It's good to hear they're in agreement.

I'll post when I know more.


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## Cheryl

Today's pictures and your tone are much happier. I am happy for your news. Lets hope Shadow comes home soon for your TLC areound the clock!!!!


----------



## mckennasedona

Oh Leslie, what a sweet and strong little girl you have there. I do so hope that she can come home soon. Your love and care will strengthen her up in no time. 

Get well soon, Shadow!!

Susan


----------



## Leeann

Sounds like both of you are doing better having time together this weekend. The power of love is so amazing. We wiil continue to pray for shadow to come home soon.


----------



## MaddiesMom

Leslie- Thanks for the update and the pictures of you and your girl. I'm so glad she seems better today. I hope she keeps her food and water down and can come home. With your love, a new diet, and some medications she can grow stronger and stronger. If she continues to improve with this regimen and everything points to HMD, then perhaps you won't need the biopsy. You can just do the treatment. In my heart, I believe that Shadow's health will be stronger when she is with you. These little dogs love us so much, and as soon as she gets home, she'll feel so ecstatic. I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed that the veterinary support she's getting now will make her strong enough to go home with you really soon!


----------



## mintchip

lbkar said:


> *Sounds like both of you are doing better having time together this weekend. The power of love is so amazing. We wiil continue to pray for shadow to come home soon*.


 :hug: :grouphug:As will Oliver and I!:hug:


----------



## Doggie Nut

Leslie, thanks for the good report! I expect to hear about her continued progress! Thanks for the photos.....she is a sweetie!


----------



## havanesebyha

Leslie,

I continue to check throughout the day on Shadows condition and thank you so much for posting updates and pictures of her! I like the tone of everything today and am so happy you got to spend so much time with her today. I am sure the extended stay with her is making her better and she now knows to expect to see you again real soon. Your love is the best medicine for her and it really sounds like it is making her better. I keep on praying for Shadow and know in my heart she will be home with you very soon. I think all of this on the forum now think of Shadow as their little girl too and with all of our prayers and good vibes she is bound to get better! 

Kisses & Hugs,
Libby & Kohana :kiss: :hug:


----------



## Julie

That sounds like good news Leslie!Shadow is getting stronger!:cheer2:


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## BeverlyA

Thank you for the update Leslie. We are praying for you, Shadow and the Drs, hoping that they will find the problem and the best way to treat it. 
It is so hard watching our loved ones hurt, no matter if they are our real babies or our fur-babies.
All good thoughts for you.

Beverly


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## marbenv

It was so good that you got a positive report today. We'll continue to pray,as everyone is , that she'll keep improving and come home soon. I also believe she'll do so much better at home.

Marsha


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## Havtahava

Leslie, it was great to get home and read your latest news. It is very encouraging! I'm so glad you got to spend more time with her today.


----------



## Laurief

Leslie, what great news! We keep praying that Shadow gets stronger & stronger so she can be home with Mommy where she belongs!
Laurie


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## ama0722

Leslie,
Hopefully little shadow being back in your arms and playing in the grass is the boost she needed to build strength and get home where she belongs! It is so sad to hear about some of the cases they get (car crash... yikes). One of my agility friends works at MedVet and they get in some really sad cases. I hope you hear the good news about her keeping food and water down sooner than expected!

Amanda


----------



## Missy

Leslie, thanks for the good report. Can't wait for the one that says she is home with you! She is a strong little girl and obviously a fighter. she'll be home with mom and family soon. (I am so happy that our vacation rental is on-line so I can keep checking in) 

Hugs and wet kisses from the boys


----------



## Leslie

ama0722 said:


> Leslie,
> Hopefully little shadow being back in your arms and *playing in the grass is the boost she needed to build strength* and get home where she belongs! It is so sad to hear about some of the cases they get (car crash... yikes). One of my agility friends works at MedVet and they get in some really sad cases. I hope you hear the good news about her keeping food and water down sooner than expected!
> 
> Amanda


Amanda,

She didn't really do any "playing in the grass" (way too weak for that) but, she did do some "peeing in the grass" :biggrin1:


----------



## irnfit

Peeing is a start! Hope she is home with you quick as a wink.


----------



## Leslie

Mon. A.M. update:

She kept water down during the night. They're giving her food now. Pray it stays down. Dr. Carr says if she can hold food throughout the day, he wants to send her home tomorrow. His philosophy is to get them home where they're comfortable and familiar and they will heal faster. Like he said, "She can always come back if she needs to."

I'm going to brave the LA weekday traffic to go see her again today (please pray for me  I'm sure it will be at least a 2 hr. drive each way, possibly longer if there are accidents. But, Dr. Carr believes she is doing better because she was with us the last two days, so I'm willing do whatever it takes to get her home. Today is also a very "light" day for me, only one student coming...I may need to cancel her if I get stuck in traffic. The good news regarding that is her family are all big dog lovers, so they understand.

I'll post again when I return later this afternoon or evening.


----------



## Lina

Leslie,

I am so happy that Shadow is doing better! I am keeping both of you in my thoughts and wishing a speedy recovery for Shadow! :grouphug:


----------



## mintchip

*Sending good luck and prayers to you Leslie & Shadow!*


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## mckennasedona

Shadow, PLEASE keep your food down baby girl! 
Leslie, good luck on your drive. I hate commute traffic. I'm over an hour each way from my work....ugh! Your drive will be worth it to spend time with your little girl. I think the doctor is right. Get her home where she can relax and begin to feel better.

Susan


----------



## juliav

Leslie,

Great to hear that Shadow is doing better and sending healing wibes and good thoughts that she can come home tomorrow.


----------



## Leeann

Just checking in too see how our little angel did today. I really hope you get to bring her home tomorrow, we wil continue to pray for you & Shadow.


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## Cheryl

Leslie, I hope the drive wasn't too bad. For those who live in other states, you can't imagine LA traffic! 

So how is your baby today?


----------



## Leslie

After traveling 5 different fwys. (the shortest route) I can report the traffic out this morning was a breeze, made it there in just at an hour. However, this afternoon was a nightmare. There was an accident and they had to close the eastbound side of one of the freeways. It took me two and a half hrs. to get home. 

As for Shadow, she seemed about the same as yesterday. They began giving her water and
all seems fine w/that. She will drink by herself and isn't vomiting it back
up. However, she is refusing to take any food. Dr. Carr is going to force
feed and give her an appetite stimulant. He will call in the morning to
let me know if it's working. He doesn't know why she won't eat. He says if he can't get her to eat on her own, he recommends inserting a feeding tube. 

Will this ever end???


----------



## lfung5

Leslie,
I am so sorry to hear about the set back. I can't image what you are going through right now. It breaks my heart. Shadow is still in my prayers.


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## MaddiesMom

Leslie- I'm sorry you had such horrible traffic. But I'm sure Shadow loved seeing you. Its a good thing that she hasn't vomited the water. Eating and stimulating the appetite is a tricky thing with liver dogs. Most dogs with liver problems have very poor appetites. They feel really nauseous from the toxins that build up in their systems after eating, and soon begin to associate eating with that feeling. Plus, so many vets recommend Science l/d for liver dogs which isn't very tasty. I ended up home cooking for my liver dog, although it was difficult since I had to really watch protein and fat. Shadow may start eating better when she is home with you. But many owners of liver dogs have to resort to force feeding for periods of time until the dog eats on its own. What's important is that Shadow gets nutrition to support her liver. If the specialist feels a feeding tube is necessary, then I'd respect his opinion. Your little girl has lost alot of weight and needs to get stronger. I'll keep my fingers crossed she starts eating on her own, but force feeding or a feeding tube may be necessary to help her regain her strength. We'll all pulling for your little girl!!:grouphug:


----------



## Laurief

I too am so sorry to hear this news. At least she is taking water. Maybe the stimulant will get her eating too - hugs & kisses to all!!

We will be saying out prayers tonight that she starts to eat and can come home soon!!
Laurie


----------



## good buddy

I hope this is only a small bump in the road. Maybe the appetite stimulant will get her eating and then hopefully things will go well from there. Holding down the water is a good sign. Now hopefully she'll start holding down food too and just get stronger and stronger. I'm sure it helps that your driving out to see her. I'm sorry the traffic was so bad. I used to live in southern CA and I always hated driving around LA.


----------



## mckennasedona

Leslie,
I'm so sorry to hear of this setback and I hope it is temporary. I hated hearing about your nightmare commute home. It must be so disheartening to deal with all of the ups and downs. I wish we could be there to hold your hand or offer you a place to stay that's closer to Shadow but we can't, so we'll continue to pray for all of you. Force feeding doesn't sound like fun. I even kind of wonder how they do that. A feeding tube might be just the ticket to get some nutrition in her and some weight back on her.

Susan


----------



## Havtahava

Leslie, how are YOU doing with all this? I know you must be a bit worried and weary too, but I hope you are holding up OK overall.


----------



## marjrc

I was so hoping Shadow would be eating by now. Hopefully, the stimulant will do the trick. She needs to build up her strength, poor little thing. Glad to hear that at least the trip out there went smoothly. 

(((hugs))) to you both and courage!


----------



## Doggie Nut

Any word today on our little Shadow? :ear:


----------



## Laurief

I have not heard today, poor Leslie is probably stuck in traffic!!:frusty:


----------



## Leslie

Shadow's coming home this afternoon! She is drinking on her own and keeping it down. Unfortunately, she is still not eating on her own, but when she's force fed she's not vomiting it back up. Dr. Carr is hoping she will start eating on her own once she's back home w/her family. I sure hope he's right. We discussed a feeding tube and at this time, he's willing to wait. 

So, my last student leaves at 3:30...we'll be on our way to get her at 3:31. It is about the worst time, traffic wise, to be going. But, it doesn't matter since we get to bring her home! 

Please pray she will eat on her own once she's here. She so needs her strength and weight built back up. I don't know what her current weight is, but I bet it's below 4 lb. She's just skin and bones, poor thing.

I'll post again either tonight or tomorrow morning to let you know how she's doing.


----------



## dboudreau

Drive safe. We will Keep you and Shadow in our thoughts. Good luck.


----------



## MaddiesMom

Oh my gosh!!! I am *so* thrilled she is coming home!! Yay!!!!:cheer2: Ask the specialist what high calorie, low protein food you can feed her. I hope they send you home with a syringe and a recipe for liquified food you can make for her in case she doesn't eat. I'm hoping her being home and in your loving care will entice her to eat on her own. I'm so excited for you and Shadow! Let us know how it goes!!


----------



## mintchip

Yeah!! Glad to hear the news Shadow is coming home!!!
Best wishes. Sending hugs and continued prayers
Sally


----------



## Leeann

Oh Leslie I am so happy I could just jump through my computer to give you a hug..

We will continue to pray for Shadow to eat so she can stay home with her mommy where she belongs.


----------



## juliav

Yeah!!!! :whoo:

I am so glad to hear that little Shadow is coming home.


----------



## Beamer

I bet she eats when she gets home! Beamer hates eating away from home to... its weird..

Hope she bounces back quickly!!!!


----------



## Amy R.

So thrilled to hear little Shadow is coming home, and sending warmest wishes for her full recovery. She will surely feel so much better already, just being back home with her family!


----------



## mckennasedona

I'm so glad to hear that Shadow gets to come home. It'll be a very good thing for her to be back with her people and in her familiar home. I suppose they'll let you feed her whatever she will eat so we'll keep praying that you'll find just the right food that she can't resist.

Thanks for the update!

Susan


----------



## Julie

:cheer2:Shadow is coming home!:cheer2:
Hopefully she will eat and gain her strength back quickly at home with her Momma!:whoo::angel::whoo:
:grouphug:


----------



## Brady's mom

Welcome back home Shadow! Yeah!


----------



## marjrc

GREAT news to hear Shadow will come back home! Oh gosh, so much traffic to deal with, but what can you do? Hopefully, Shadow will do well on the drive back and start to eat a bit knowing she's finally home. Hang in there!


----------



## Havtahava

Shadow coming home is great news. I was so glad to read this earlier. (I thought I replied already, but I don't see it.)

Jeanne, good point on the food and feeding her! Unfortunately, your experiences make you an excellent resource for details others wouldn't think to suggest.

I wish you a good first evening back together again. I bet she will be sooo glad to be back home.


----------



## Missy

Welcome Home Shadow!!!! Leslie you must be so happy. We'll keep sending positive hungry vibes to shadow. She will do so much better at home. Have a great first night back. Can't wait for the report.


----------



## Laurief

I am off the computer for 2 hours & look what happens:whoo: Leslie you must be so relieved to have your baby back at home. If you hit a lot of traffic she just gets a lot more time to bond with you again, and get hungry. Here's hoping that she fills her belly tonight & sleeps soundly!
Laurie


----------



## Lina

YAY! Shadow coming back home is GREAT news! :whoo: I'm sure she will be back to her old self in no time when she is home with her mommy. Give her a big :hug: and :kiss: from me and Kubrick!


----------



## Doggie Nut

Leslie, I am so happy to hear that Shadow is coming home for some much deserved TLC!! I know you and your fam are rejoicing!!:whoo:


----------



## lfung5

So very happy to hear the good news!


----------



## Cheryl

Are you home yet? What is for dinner tonight? Did the vet give you lots of instructions on how to feed her?


----------



## ama0722

This is great. I think the little ones heal better in their normal surroundings! Welcome back Shadow and we hope to see you feeling better and eating!

Amanda


----------



## mckennasedona

As I was driving home from work today, I thought about what time it was and thought of Leslie leaving right about that same time to pick up Shadow. Each time I glance at the clock now I wonder if they are home yet. I hope they are home and that Shadow is getting lots and lots of TLC.

Susan


----------



## havanesebyha

Leslie that is wonderful news ~ Welcome Home Shadow!

:whoo: :welcome: :clap2: :bounce: :cheer2: 

Libby & Kohana


----------



## Leslie

We made it! Got home around 7:30. She's having some loose stools, not diarreah, just loose. Unfortunately, she had a bit of an accident on the ride home so, first thing we did when we got home was a butt bath. Poor thing, as if she hasn't been through already. She still needs a full bath but, tonight was not the time. 

The vet has her on Hill's prescription W/D and a daily appetite stimulant. She was not at all interested in eating when I tried to feed her. I forced a bite in her mouth and she did eventually swallow it, but then wouldn't come near me for awhile after that. They told me I could mix it w/water and give it w/a syringe. Tried that about 1/2 hr. ago. It was very messy and I think I managed to get about a tsp. into her. We're both tired, so we're heading to bed now. I'm pretty sure she'll sleep well. She seems rather lethargic, but it is her bedtime. We'll see how she does w/food in the morning.

BYW, the traffic heading out wasn't too bad. Coming back was worse but, nothing like yesterday, thank goodness! Thanks for those of you who prayed about it for us, it worked!

I'll let you all know how she does.


----------



## MaddiesMom

Hi Leslie- I'm so glad Shadow is home with you! I'm a bit confused why the specialist would give Shadow Science w/d diet. The w/d diet is for weight control in overweight dogs. Its a high fiber diet with low calories. I would think Shadow would need a high calorie diet or at least a normal calorie one. Usually, the vets suggest Science l/d (liver diet) and has nearly twice the calories of w/d. The Science diet prescription foods aren't very tasty, but if Shadow will eat it, that's great. If not, don't wait too long to call the specialist to see what you should do. I was told to use the highest quality and easiest to process protein like chicken, white fish like cod, non-fat cottage cheese, or egg. I used sweet potato or rice in greater amounts than the protein. I put a little unflavored soy milk in the blender to help liquify my dog's diet when I needed to force feed with a syringe, but you can use water or fat free, low sodium chicken broth. Unfortunately, home cooking requires calcium and some other supplements, but your specialist can help you with that. Liver dogs also do better on several small meals than a couple of big ones.

You might want to verify with Shadow's doctor that he wants her on a low calorie diet like w/d. He may have his own reasons that I don't know. But it just seems like kind of a strange choice for a young dog that has lost so much weight. Sending healing thoughts Shadow's way!!


----------



## MopTop Havanese

Welcome Home Shadow! :whoo: 
I hope you get a good nights rest and eat a good breakfast for your mommy in the morning. We will be thinking of you~


----------



## Laurief

We are all hoping for a good report this morning!! Eat Shadow, Eat Shadow:cheer2:


----------



## Laurief

Lexlie - how did Shadow do last night?


----------



## Leslie

Shadow had a quiet night, like I expected. She's a very good sleeper and we all know how difficult it is to get any decent sleep in the hospital, so last night was probably like a dream for her, no pun intended 

As for breakfast; she got up and drank well, I gave her the food recommended by the vet. She sniffed it and walked over to lie on her pillow. She is sleeping again. I will try to force some in a bit.

Jeanne questioned the type of food the vet recommended. I PM'd her w/the details of the discharge instructions (wanted to save you all the boredom of reading it ;-) I will call the vet after 8 to ask about the reasoning behind his choice. Unfortunately, I get the feeling he doesn't like to be questioned. Oh well, I need to know.

I'll post later when I get her to eat (notice I say _when_, not _if_


----------



## Havtahava

I love the tone of resolve in your latest post, Leslie. 

I'm glad she slept well and kept the water down this morning.


----------



## mckennasedona

Why does it seem that every vet everywhere prescribes some sort of Science Diet formulation for whatever ails a dog? If everything I read is correct (and that's questionable, but I do like Whole Dog Journal) Science Diet is an okay but not really high premium food. I don't mean to hijack this thread but every time a dog has an issue a vet puts them on one or another of the Science Diet foods. I do hope with all my heart that little Shadow will eat her Science Diet but it just makes me wonder. I am a bit of a sceptic when it comes to holistic medicine but in this case, I'd consider searching them out too for some advice. Anything to save a sweet little girl.

Leslie, I hope you and Shadow got a good night's sleep and that things will begin to turn around for you today.

Susan


----------



## irnfit

So glad to hear Shadow is home. I know that with all the love and attention now that she is home, she will thrive.


----------



## Leslie

mckennasedona said:


> Why does it seem that every vet everywhere prescribes some sort of Science Diet formulation for whatever ails a dog? If everything I read is correct (and that's questionable, but I do like Whole Dog Journal) Science Diet is an okay but not really high premium food. I don't mean to hijack this thread but every time a dog has an issue a vet puts them on one or another of the Science Diet foods. I do hope with all my heart that little Shadow will eat her Science Diet but it just makes me wonder. *I am a bit of a sceptic when it comes to holistic medicine but in this case, I'd consider searching them out too for some advice.* Anything to save a sweet little girl.
> 
> Leslie, I hope you and Shadow got a good night's sleep and that things will begin to turn around for you today.
> 
> Susan


This is exactly what the breeder and I discussed yesterday. I found one that's about 50 mi. away from me. I will probably call them today to see what they charge for a consultation. But, I gotta tell you, my wallet is pretty empty. Those specialists didn't come cheap...

Thank you for your concern and thoughts on the food. I'm wondering about it, too.

I'll post more later.


----------



## Laurief

You go girl!!:cheer2: 
get that baby to eat !!!! I am sure she was so happy to have constant hugs from the family and be in her own bed. 
Laurie


----------



## Leslie

Laurief said:


> You go girl!!:cheer2:
> get that baby to eat !!!! *I am sure she was so happy to have constant hugs from the family* and be in her own bed.
> Laurie


I'm sure she's happy about being w/us, almost anything is better than being in the hospital. But, she is so weak, all she's doing is moving from room to room following me. When I finally stop, she finds a place to lie down and stays there until I move again (needless to say, I'm not getting much done this AM. I'm trying to stay in one place as long as I can, hence the reason I'm still on the computer). She's hardly wagging her tail, has only put her front paws up on me twice to pick her up (something she constantly did before she was sick), in fact, other than following me around, she's not moving much at all, she has no energy. She looks pretty pitiful. I'm waiting for Dr. Boyd, her new "regular" vet, to return my call. I figure since the message I get from Dr. Carr, the specialist, is so cool, I'd let Dr. Boyd call him to ask my questions, if he can't answer them himself.


----------



## Laurief

What a jerk - way to pass the buck!:bump2: I am impressed with you that you are able to walk around and get anything done instead of holding her all day! Lets hope the other Dr. gets back to you so you can start trying to feed her. It must be so sad for you to see her so weak, but if she is following you around, that sounds like progress to me.


----------



## mckennasedona

I agree Leslie. I absolutely HATE the, "I went to medical school, so I know best and don't question my authority" attitude. There is one vet in my veterinary office like that and I avoid him at all costs. They should all be willing to be questioned and be willing to back up their advice whenever you ask for it. After all, it's your puppy's life on the line here. Keep up your resolve. Hopefully your regular vet can get through to the other guy that questions are important and need to be answered.

Susan


----------



## mintchip

mckennasedona said:


> I agree Leslie. I absolutely HATE the, "I went to medical school, so I know best and don't question my authority" attitude. There is one vet in my veterinary office like that and I avoid him at all costs. They should all be willing to be questioned and be willing to back up their advice whenever you ask for it. After all, it's your puppy's life on the line here. Keep up your resolve. Hopefully your regular vet can get through to the other guy that questions are important and need to be answered.
> 
> Susan


Susan I agree with you!! I want to yell back at them"You WENT but do you keep with current discoveries as well?"
Leslie and Shadow you are in our thoughts and prayers!!! Get well soon Shadow!


----------



## MaddiesMom

Leslie- I just PM'd you, but wanted to add that the specialist should offer an alternative home cooked diet for Shadow if she won't eat. Its his/her responsibility, and they should know what a good substitute would be. If you have to resort to home cooked, let me know as I've got some recipes for liver compromised dogs.


----------



## KristinFusco

Leslie,

I just had a chance to read through this thread. I am SO sorry to hear about the ordeal that you and poor Shadow are going through. It sounds like you have been doing everything right and getting the best medical care possible, I will pray for you that everything has a happy resolution.

Hugs,

Kristin


----------



## RedHeadedGator

Leslie - How is Shadow doing tonight? I was so glad to read that she was back home. We think of you both all of the time and are hoping that she is starting to eat and feeling better. Hugs to you all again from us and our girls :grouphug:


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## Missy

Yeah Shadow's Home. I think we were all hoping for a fairytale homecoming - that she would come home sleep, and eat a whole bowl of food- but it's just going to take some time. I don't know if Shadow was finicky before--- But as we know a lot of these Hav's are-- Mine included. I think asking the specialist for a home made recipe for her condition is a great idea- perhaps just til she starts eating again and gain somes weight- then you can start mixing in the science diet or some other prescription diet if you can find a tastier recommendation. I am so glad Shadow is home . I think the following you from room to room is a very good sign- after all she has been in a crate most of the time for days and is weak but following you will start to build up her strength.

Leslie-- I wish you continued strength dealing with this. Shadow is lucky to have such a great mom--- I am tickeled she is home with you


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## JASHavanese

Leslie and Shadow we're keeping you in our prayers.


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## Leslie

Well, I spent most of the day trying to get her to eat _anything_. I gave up on the special food in the late morning. Maddies mom, Jeanne, was _extremely helpful_ and shared some great info and ideas w/me through email when the forum was down earlier.

So far, today's menu included: cooked ground turkey mixed w/oatmeal, rice, and pasta (wouldn't touch any of it), chicken & rice baby food (no way!), veal baby food mixed w/rice cereal, and mixed w/oatmeal (nope!), the only thing she ate on her own today was about 6 bites of a leftover piece of grilled chicken, which, if she indeed has the liver problem, isn't good for her. Figures that's what she'd eat... When I tried to mix the chicken w/anything, she wouldn't touch it. :frusty:

I force fed her some of the W/D mixed w/water early in the morning. What a mess that was. She had it all over both of us and the floor. I also tried mixing it w/other liquids (apple juice, soy milk) in hopes that it would be more appealing. She would have nothing to do w/it.

Besides the eating issue, her stools are weird, too. Sorry to be graphic but, maybe someone can help. She will poop a bit (about the size of a gumdrop) and it won't fall because it's so "sticky" and there's not much of it (just enough to make a mess). Then when I try to clean it off w/a wipe, more will ooze out and make such a mess I have to give her a full bottom bath. She doesn't seem to be able to "push" it all out. Think it's because she's so weak, or is it something else? This has happened 3 times since she came home yesterday evening.

I called the specialist today around noon to check in w/him regarding how Shadow is doing and ask my questions.They took a message and I was told I'd be called back. It is now 7 pm and I've not heard a thing. I think they are "done w/me". I ask too many ?'s and don't blindly follow all they say, so it's easier to just ignore me. After all, I was telling them I wasn't sure I wanted her to have surgery since it wouldn't fix anything, only give info.

Her regular vet, Dr. Boyd, was off today. I will contact him in the morning w/all this. The good news is that she hasn't vomited at all since she's been back home and she continues to drink all on her own.

I'll post more when I know more. Thanks for all your support. You guys are awesome!

God bless,
Leslie


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## havanesebyha

Leslie and Jeanne,

I really don't know much on diets with liver problems, but my daughter with her Bichon and all of his problems gives hers canned white chicken in water and I now have my finicky eater on the same, but we put it over her kibble and she loves it! This is human chicken (white only) in the can and has no additives except salt - so it is white chicken, water and salt in the tuna fish area of your grocery store. Run that by your vet if that will work? 

I think you are right all vets send dogs and puppies home with Hills I/D for all stomach problems. Do you think they get a kick back from selling that food - I know they do from Science Diet. 

Best of luck with Shadow eating and hope her regular vet tomorrow has better suggestions. Don't get discouraged with asking questions - I've even had pediatricians tell me to not ask as they are the doctor and went to med school and not me. Some doctors just are so impressed with themselves - we will all do what we think is best for our kids and puppies! :biggrin1: 

Libby & Kohana


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## MaddiesMom

Leslie- I just sent you an e-mail about today's situation. But don't feel guilty about her eating only the grilled chicken breast. Ideally, she would take in more carbs than protein, but this is the real world, and Shadow *has* to get stronger. If she keeps the straight chicken down, then don't fret! Trust me, I fed my liver dog whatever she would eat at times. But that darn doctor better call you and not leave you dealing with this alone!


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## radar_jones

So Very Sorry to read about the difficulties with Shadow and her eating prolems. I really hope that everything works out for the best and that she comes around quickly.

Derek


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## BeverlyA

Leslie, 
I'm so sorry that Shadow is having to go through this, please hang in there. You are fighting the good fight for Shadow, and that's what a good mother would do. Don't let the vets intimidate you, we all have special skills, but that's not what makes people special. You are Shadow's only advocate and there is nothing wrong with asking questions and becoming educated.
The very best of luck to you, you and Shadow are in all of our thoughts.

Beverly


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## marjrc

How stressful it must be for you, Leslie! I'm sorry to hear Shadow isn't eating as well as you'd (as we all had) hoped, but I agree that the little bit of walking she is doing is a good thing. Hopefully, with more nutrients in her, she'll get a bit stronger. 

Is it possible that she's just too weak to push out her stools? I dont' know.... 

You are in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Jane

Leslie,

I've been following this thread since the beginning and I just wanted to say you and Shadow are in my thoughts and prayers. I am so sorry that you are going through this. I do hope she will eat and get her strength up and that you will get answers for your questions. I too am a "questioner" and know how awful it feels to deal with those who are unresponsive. Get as much rest as you can so you can continue to advocate for your sweet Shadow.


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## Laurief

Leslie - sorry to hear that Shadow is being such a "fussy eater" and pooper. I think that like us when we miss a meal and are real hungry - if you dont eat at all, after a while that feeling goes away. She probably just doesnt "feel" hungry. I dont know the details of the special liver diet but I agree that anything in her system is better than nothing!!
I am sure the poop thing is a combo of weakness & not eating - after all,, what does she really have in her body to poop out?? I would keep trying different baby foods, kibble, wet food - you just might hit upon exactly what she will eat cause it taste good - not cause she is hungry - then once her stomach gets food in it, it will signal to her that it is hungry. Good luck today and please keep us advised. The ooze is probably her intestinal juices that have nothing to "work on" so they have no where to go but out. I still would check with the Dr. on that. I wonder if they will suggest one or two feeding tube meals, to get her system going again. I have to believe that part of this could be that the digestive track is bored & doesnt know what to do!
Laurie


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## Missy

Hnag in there Leslie. I am continuing to pray for Shadow and as always you are in my thoughts and prayers as well. This has been an ordeal and hopefully Shadow will turn a corner soon. 

Did you try a bit of peanut butter? I know my Jasper who is a fussy eater if I give him a bit of PB he will then realize he is hungry-- and if there is a bit of sugar in the PB I think it might give shadow a little energy. I've also heard that rubbing honey on their gums can both stimulate hunger and give a little boost. you may also want to try boiling the carbs you are trying to feed shadow in chicken or beef broth-- if she eats mostly chicken, beef flavor may be a good enticer.

Hang in there sweet Shadow and sweet, sweet Leslie. we are all goingthrough this with you both.


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## Thumper

Leslie,

I just got home from vacation and am SO sorry to read about everything poor little Shadow and your family has been going through. :grouphug: I am happy to see Shadow is home getting lots of love from mommy  I really hope she has a speedy recovery.

I had to syringe feed my human son for about a year, so I know how hard that can be, especially when they dont' want to eat. Did the vet discuss a temporary feeding tube being placed on Shadow? That might make things easier for both of you.  

Sending our biggest HUGS, well wishes and prayers your way.

love,
Kara and Gucci


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## BeverlyA

We're all hoping that you and Shadow had a restful night Leslie and perhaps woke up a bit hungry this morning.
It's so helpful having Jeanne's unfortunate experience to draw from in this situation. 

Did the vets mention anything like Boost, ensure, or pedialyte that they give people that can't eat?

Does anyone that's following the thread know "Doc" well enough to ask her opinion? I don't know her at all, and I realize she's gone to the "other side", but I would think she would still be interested in helping Hav's get well.

I think we all just feel so bad and wish there was something we could do to help. Please take care of yourself also Leslie, that's also very important.

Beverly


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## SMARTY

I just returned also. You must be exhausted with all the strain of what is going on with Shadow. I know nothing about liver problems and what should be the food, but at this point I would hope the vet would put her on something that could stimulate the appetite. We are wishing all the best for you, Shadow and family. Hang in there, this too shall pass.


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## Julie

Leslie,
If you wanted to talk to Doc.......I would go to member list and click on her website.I bet there is a contact there.Don't hesitate to ask her.I asked her a question before and she was very forthright and helpful.She rarely signs on here,so a PM would go un-noticed I think.

I'm an expert in pediasure....Robbie didn't eat and got all his nutrition from pediasure for over 3 years.It might be something to think about...but it is very expensive to buy and only comes in a 6 pk.so if Shadow didn't like it,you'd be out that money.It is awful(to me)and sweet.

I just keep hoping she'll perk up.:angel:
:hungry:Shadow:hungry:


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## lfung5

Leslie,
I am sorry you are having such difficult times. I emailed Doc and i don't know her. She was very helpful with bella and her livershunt. This is the email I have for her. [email protected]
She also has a website www.elfinhavanasilkdogs.com
Good luck.


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## marbenv

Doc's e-mail address is [email protected]. I'm sure she'll answer and give you her advice. She answered ans e-mail for me and she doesn't know me either. She knows a great deal about these dogs. She might even have some advice for handling vets with big EGOS!!.

Marsha


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## Leslie

Last night wasn't as good as the night before. I gave her some more (she maybe ate 5 bites) of the chicken breast a little more than an hour before bed. When I checked on her at 1 AM she had vomited it up. I changed the bedding, took her potty and to get a drink (she will always drink, thank goodness), then back to bed.

This AM I offered rice cereal, sweet potato w/chicken baby food, and the chicken breast. She refused them all. I forced about 1/2 tsp. of NutraCal. I'll call the vet at 8 when they open, not sure when the dr. comes in, though.


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## Julie

darn-it!:frusty:


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## Julie

Leslie--
If you get a chance e-mail Doc.........She has been involved in havs for years and the health-testing etc.of the havs.....I'm positive she could help you with some good advice.It's worth a shot!


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## Havtahava

Leslie, I don't even know what to say. I can't imagine being so little, not eating and then vomiting when she does. Poor baby.

For those of you that posted Doc's email address, can I ask that you go back and edit your message to remove it or alter it? Your intentions are kind, but this is a very public web site and web crawlers will start increasing her amount of spam mail. Leslie can get her email address by clicking on her member name in the forum member listing.


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## Leslie

Yea! I hope... She just went in completely on her own and ate about 8 or so bites of some of her kibble I soaked w/low-fat chicken broth. I had offered it to her about 15 min. ago but, she refused it. I left it by her water. Just now she went to get a drink, sniffed the food and took a bite. It took her awhile to decide if she was going to just keep spitting it out or actually swallow it. But eventually she swallowed and went back for more. Oh, how I hope this is the turning point.


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## KristinFusco

That's such encouraging news Leslie!!!!!:biggrin1: 

~Kristin


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## SMARTY

We all hope that this is a turing point too. Doc put her email in one of her post, I suppose she is like the rest of us who have them on cards, websites, etc. spam just comes with the territory


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## mckennasedona

Leslie, those eight bites must seem like a miracle at this point. especially since it was kibble with the nutrients she needs. Let's pray she keeps it down and wants more later. 

If you do decide to go the feeding tube route, will your regular vet be able to insert it or would you have to take her back to the specialist. 

Susan


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## Leslie

Susan,

I hope her regular vet could do it. After the "cold shoulder" I've received from the specialist, I don't want to go back there (except to get a refund for the case of W/D they sold me that she won't even sniff, let alone, eat!) I'm still waiting for him to return my call from noon yesterday..... Yeah, I'm done w/him. If she needs a specialist to do it I'm sure there's someone else available.


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## Beamer

Good news about Shadow actually taking some food on her own! She must be a hungry little dog! How much does she weigh now anyways???


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## Leeann

Oh Leslie what great news, hopefully she will keep it down and continue to eat a little more throughout the day. Hopefully those eight bites and the Nutracal will give her a little more energy also. We are continuing to pray for you & Shadow.


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## mintchip

Yeah!!! You can do it Shadow!!!!
Love and prayers to you and your family,
Sally and Oliver


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## Judy A

Hope Shadow keeps eating for you Leslie. We're all pulling for you guys and pray for a good outcome.
Judy, Izzy, Zoey and Kai


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## whitBmom

Oh Leslie, I have now caught up in this thread and I am so sorry to hear what you have been going through.  I sincerelly hope that Shadows nibbling at the food is that starting point for her full recovery. Big hugs to you, your family and Shadow. :grouphug:


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## dboudreau

We are keeping our fingers and paws crossed hoping this is the turning point for Shadow and she starts the road to recovery.:grouphug:


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## Lina

I am so happy to hear that Shadow ate a bit today Leslie! I can only imagine how relieved that must make you feel... keep us updated on her progress!


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## Missy

Yeah! that is terrific news Leslie. I hope those 8 bites stay down. I am so happy- I hope this is the turning point.


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## Doggie Nut

That is such incredible news about Shadow, Leslie! My prayers continue for both of you! As for the "Specialist".....it really burns me up when professionals treat us like we are complete idiots! Good for you on NOT going back! I am certain there are many others better and who still have a heart! That is what I absolutely love about my vet......he has the BEST "bedside manner" plus he is soooo knowledgable. I think alot of the healing process is enveloped in the the amount of TLC recieved not only from the family but from the doctors involved! Be encouraged and strenghtend today! You are a jewel!


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## Laurief

:whoo: :whoo: Great job Shadow!! Maybe all she needed was to be able to eat without an audience, it is now around noon (eastern time) so I hope she has still kept it down! That must have been quite a sight to see!! I think I would have cried. Keep up the good work Shadow!! :bounce:


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## Leslie

Ok, guess who's feeling well enough to shred toilet paper??? She has also gone back and, at least sniffed, if not eaten more of the soaked kibble. Sure hope the day continues like it's started!


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## Jan D

Yay Shadow!!!! Keep it up cutie :whoo: :whoo: :whoo:

She deserves her own roll after all she's been through!!!


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## Leslie

freeway1976 said:


> Good news about Shadow actually taking some food on her own! She must be a hungry little dog! *How much does she weigh now anyways???*


She weighed 4.1 lbs. when we picked her up from the hospital on Tues.


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## Laurief

Well I am happy to send her a whole ream of toilet paper, if she keeps this progress up!!


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## Leeann

Go Shadow Go shred all the toilet paper you want. Don’t worry about mommy getting mad, we will all take care of her for you. Leslie this put such a big smile on my face I can only imagine how you felt when you saw her doing it.


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## Brady's mom

I really hope this is a turning point for you and Shadow! Toilet paper shredding and a little bit of food today, wow, that is a big day so far. I hope the day continues to get better and better!


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## MaddiesMom

Leslie- First thing I did today was check my e-mail to see about Shadow. Great news!! Her "nibbling" like she's doing is the best thing, so that she's not eating one big meal, but several little ones. I hope the vet oks the NutriCal that we talked about, as it has tons of calories and vitamins and will help supplement her between meals. Keep up the good work and we're hoping Shadow keeps up her eating and toilet paper shredding!


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## marjrc

Yaaaaaaaaay Shadow!! :whoo: Keep shredding sweetie! Pretty soon, you'll have mom chasing you through the house!


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## RedHeadedGator

Go, Shadow, Go!! I am so happy to hear that she is eating a bit and shredding!! YEAH!!


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## marbenv

:drum: :drum: :clap2: :clap2: :cheer2: :cheer2: :cheer2u shred that paper


Shadow--you go girl--you shred that TP!!!!

What happy news, Leslie. Sounds like she's not lost her will to get better.
Interest in food and playing--very encouraging.

You remain in our prayers.

Marsha


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## mckennasedona

Good for you Shadow! Shred that paper little girl!! :hug: When you're done shredding, have a little snack!!

Susan


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## juliav

Yeah!!!!!

This is wonderful news, ate some food and shreaded paper!!!! Go Shadow, Go Shadow, Go Shadow!!!!!


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## mintchip

*You can do it Shadow!!!!!!!*
Keep up the good work!


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## Amy R.

The news of that little girl's progress today has put a smile on my face. Of course!---she is home with her family! Sending best thoughts !


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## Doggie Nut

Yea!!! Two great things to hear.....eating & shredding!!!:whoo:


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## Leslie

Well, I *finally* received my return phone call from the specialist, you know, the one I made yesterday at noon? Can you believe it? It wasn't even Dr. Carr who called, it was Dr. Im, the 1st specialist on Shadow's case. I wasn't surprised.

Long story short, I told him Shadow wasn't eating. He asked if I tried boiled chicken since that's what she was eating there! She was eating there??? I was told by Dr. Carr she wasn't eating there and that was why he wanted her to go home, so she could be in familiar surroundings and would maybe begin eating. I'm so furious!!!

Unfortunately for him, Dr. Boyd, the regular vet, called just after that. I was so upset I could hardly talk w/out crying. He was great, though. He apologized for the way we were treated and how it seems like we went in one big circle. He went on to encourage me by saying he will confer w/the group of vets Banfield has available to him and he would get back to me today.

By the way, Shadow ate about 1/2 of a boiled chicken breast for lunch! If I'd only known.....


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## Olliesmom

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Hopefully 1/2 will become a whole real soon!!

hugs....


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## mintchip

havashadow said:


> Well, I *finally* received my return phone call from the specialist, you know, the one I made yesterday at noon? Can you believe it? It wasn't even Dr. Carr who called, it was Dr. Im, the 1st specialist on Shadow's case. I wasn't surprised.
> 
> Long story short, I told him Shadow wasn't eating. He asked if I tried boiled chicken since that's what she was eating there! She was eating there??? I was told by Dr. Carr she wasn't eating there and that was why he wanted her to go home, so she could be in familiar surroundings and would maybe begin eating. I'm so furious!!!
> 
> Unfortunately for him, Dr. Boyd, the regular vet, called just after that. I was so upset I could hardly talk w/out crying. He was great, though. He apologized for the way we were treated and how it seems like we went in one big circle. He went on to encourage me by saying he will confer w/the group of vets Banfield has available to him and he would get back to me today.
> 
> By the way, Shadow ate about 1/2 of a boiled chicken breast for lunch! If I'd only known.....


:grouphug:Leslie and Shadow :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Sending you hugs,prayers and good wishes:grouphug:
Sally and Oliver


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## mckennasedona

> I'm so furious!!!


Leslie, 
Step one: bury face in pillow and scream as loud as you can!!
Step two: find your least favorite dish (non breakable) and throw it as far and as hard as you can!! You might want to go out in your front yard to do this.
Step three: pour out your anger in an email to VCA (that specialist vet was VCA, right) but don't actually hit send.
Step four: Lots of deep breaths and lots of hugs for Shadow!

Susan


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## Thumper

Oh gosh..what a runaround!!!! I'm so sorry 

But I'm happy to hear she had a nice size lunch.

hugs,
Kara


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## marjrc

How aggravating!!! Makes you want to smack them upside the head! :brick: 
Would have been useful to know she loved the ch. breast over there! At least she's eating some now. Good sign!! :whoo: 

BTW , on a practical note..... did you have all those diff. things at home already to try and feed Shadow, or did you have to run out each time to buy something new and hope she'd eat it? Makes me think that perhaps we should all have a small cache of essentials in case there is diarhhea or vomiting ..... could be handy!


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## Julie

Leslie---this is one of those situation that calls for a fish smacking!:fish::fishI'm really just trying to make you laugh or smile)
Things sounds better.....frustrating,but better.......:hug:


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## irnfit

Leslie, take deep breaths and a glass of wine (if you drink). So glad to hear Shadow is eating. I'm sure she is going to be one spoiled little dog pretty soon. She is getting so much special attention. :hug:


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## dboudreau

Lets hope Shadow will start getting better now.


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## Laurief

Leslie, I am so sorry you had to go thru this - it is amazing the way these people feel that they can treat others especially when you are paying them a fortune. Thankfully Shadow is home where she belongs, and it sure sounds like she seems to be making small strides - and that your current vet is a little more understanding. This certainly sounds like Shadow is on the good side of this all and just needs to gain strength!! Good Luck with the vet.


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## Leslie

Ok, guys, it worked. You had me laughing, ound: Boy did I need that!

Well, she's eaten another 1/4 of the boiled chicken breast :whoo: She was actually gulping it down at first. She seems to be one hungry little girl now :hungry: 

Dr. Boyd called back, like he said he would. After conferring w/his colleagues he want to do more bloodwork to look for other things that have similiar symptoms. He knows I want to leave exploratory surgery as a last resort. He wants to look for a fungus infection (like Valley Fever), and I forgot the name of the class of illnesses, but it includes Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. He also wants to check her platelets again. All this for under $200 and no specialists to deal with. :clap2: 

If the results of all these tests come back normal/negative, then we will discuss the possibility of surgery.


----------



## Leslie

marjrc said:


> How aggravating!!! Makes you want to smack them upside the head! :brick:
> Would have been useful to know she loved the ch. breast over there! At least she's eating some now. Good sign!! :whoo:
> 
> BTW , on a practical note..... *did you have all those diff. things at home already to try and feed Shadow, or did you have to run out each time to buy something new and hope she'd eat it?* Makes me think that perhaps we should all have a small cache of essentials in case there is diarhhea or vomiting ..... could be handy!


I had the "regular" stuff; ground meat, rice, chicken breast, oatmeal, etc. I had to go buy the baby food. Although, if she'd had this a few months ago my littlest grandson was still eating it and I would have probably had some of that here.

Not a bad idea to have "stuff" on hand, especially if the store is much of a distance. Ours is very close, so I don't worry too much about it.


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## mintchip

havashadow said:


> I had the "regular" stuff; ground meat, rice, chicken breast, oatmeal, etc. I had to go buy the baby food. Although, if she'd had this a few months ago my littlest grandson was still eating it and I would have probably had some of that here.
> 
> *Not a bad idea to have "stuff" on hand, especially if the store is much of a distance.* Ours is very close, so I don't worry too much about it.


....or if it is late at night!
Glad to hear the good news!!!!:grouphug: 
Sally


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## MaddiesMom

Leslie- I think Susan's 4 step plan is the best! :biggrin1: To have to deal with such a frustrating specialist must drive you mad. Could he not have shared with you that boiled chicken breast was appetizing to Shadow? In any case, it sounds like she's keeping things down so far! I just received an e-mail from another acquaintance that has a dog with MVD. Her dog is eating chicken breast, oatmeal, cottage cheese, pasta with a little parmesan mixed in with some vitamins. Whatever works!!!

I'm glad your vet is becoming an advocate for your little girl. You shouldn't have had to shoulder this all by yourself. Keep up the good work, Shadow!!! And Leslie, get some well deserved rest tonight!


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## Julie

Leslie--I'm glad my:fish: "fish smacking" helped to make you smile.When I get totally stressed out,I try to do something or think of something silly to lighten the mood.Sometimes it's all you have.....laugh or cry.We don't want you to cry!:hug:You posted some really good news!Shadow---that sweet girl ate!Whoo...whoo.......:clap2::clap2:


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## Leeann

It's so refreshing to hear what a good day Shadow is having today, she is so lucky to have such a great mommy to deal with all this crap for her.


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## Laurief

The power of Prayer!!! I am so happy to hear that 
Shadow is finally eating. Once she gets her strength back it will make it easier to get a diagnosis!! So glad for your Leslie!


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## Doggie Nut

*AMEN SISTERS!!!!*







:amen:


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## SMARTY

Leslie, we are wishing you and Shadow a good nights sleep. It seems like all is going well this evening. Eating and keeping it down is the main thing, all else will fall into place. I understand your feelings for Doctors, in general they have a curious nature that is why it will always be called practice. The problem with that is you have to pay for their "practice" to see if they are right in there diagnosis. I've worked with alot of them and the more I do the less I admire them or trust their opinions. All said the main thing is Shadow is home, eating and sheading what could be better.


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## Missy

Amen is right!!! This is such good news...eating and paper shredding!!! :whoo: :whoo: :whoo: Can't wait to read tomorrows report. Dr. Boyd sounds wonderful. I am so sorry youhad this run around--- but Shadow is doing better and that is the best medicine for having to deal with jerky specialists.


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## havanesebyha

:biggrin1: :biggrin1: All right! Way to go girl ~ shred that toliet paper all over the house and mommy will be so proud of you!!! Leslie, I love to hear news like this and eating a little on her own too!

Keep it up!

Libby & Kohana :biggrin1:


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## Laurief

Leslie, So how is our girl today??


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## Leslie

Yesterday afternoon Dr. Boyd called after conferring w/his colleagues. He/they suggested more lab tests to rule out some of the less common things they could think of that may be causing her symptoms. So, we took her over to him. He did a thorough exam and drew blood. Everything he could do "in house" looked good. He's not seeing much that's giving him clues. The other 2 tests he suggested (which have to be sent out to be done) are a bit of a stretch in his mind. One is looking for a fungus infection the other is looking to see if she has any of the diseases in the same family that cause Rocky Mtn. Spotted Fever. 

By that time Shadow had eaten an entire chicken breast and was looking much better. He was greatly encouraged by her "clinical signs" of eating, not vomiting, no fever, good heart rate, etc. He says if she continues to head in this direction (which he hopes she does) it may be nothing else will need to be done. However, if her symptoms return, he recommends the exploratory surgery. He says they have exhausted every other avenue.

He agrees the chicken is fine, for now, but we have to try to get her on a more balanced diet before long. This morning she gobbled it up again. I tried mixing the Prescription i/d he recommended w/it, the little stinker picked out all the chicken and left the other. Oh well, guess I'll cut smaller chicken pieces next time.

Last night was a bit difficult. She had me up 3 times. She went potty, but her main reason for wanting out was to drink. She is drinking way more than she usually does and her urine has hardly any color to it. Don't know if this is anything to be alarmed about but, I'm calling Dr. Boyd to discuss the lab work, so I'll tell him about it. I'm thinking, but hoping not, diabetes. This is a symptom in people and since we did just deal w/an angry pancreas, I wonder?

Well, that's where we stand as of this morning. I'll post again after I talk w/Dr. Boyd.

Leslie

P.S. She had a normal poop last night! Yea!!!


----------



## Laurief

Yay - way to go Shadow. Things really sound on the upswing. I dont know if you have her on meds at all, but if she is on a steroid, then she will drink like crazy! I could also just be that he body is trying to rehydrate. Did the Dr. do a urine sample? If not, dont let them convince you to come in for it (unless it must be a sterile one), just bring one in and they can just run it.
I wonder is you smash the chicken breast in with the food if she would eat it? I guess it is worth trying anything at this point!
Laurie


----------



## mckennasedona

Leslie, this morning's news is terrific actually. She's keeping her food down. How is her energy? Is she wanting to play? Is she asking to get on your lap? Did her blood levels still show liver issues? Hopefully she's really on the mend and nothing more will need to be done.

Maybe some of the raw feeders who are members here could offer some advice regarding adding some things to her food so she gets all the proper nutrients, like some other type of meat that she might like. 

Our neighbor's elderly cat had diabetes at the end of his life. They had to give daily injections. It was managable but limited their ability to travel. You'd have to leave Shadow with someone you knew to be trustworthy to give her her injections if it came to that.

At any rate, good news for the morning! Keep it up Shadow!

Susan


----------



## Leslie

mckennasedona said:


> Leslie, this morning's news is terrific actually. She's keeping her food down. *How is her energy? Is she wanting to play? Is she asking to get on your lap? Did her blood levels still show liver issues?* Hopefully she's really on the mend and nothing more will need to be done.
> 
> Maybe some of the raw feeders who are members here could offer some advice regarding adding some things to her food so she gets all the proper nutrients, like some other type of meat that she might like.
> 
> Our neighbor's elderly cat had diabetes at the end of his life. They had to give daily injections. It was managable but limited their ability to travel. You'd have to leave Shadow with someone you knew to be trustworthy to give her her injections if it came to that.
> 
> At any rate, good news for the morning! Keep it up Shadow!
> 
> Susan


Her energy level has improved, and is much better than her 1st day home, though not anywhere near normal. I'd say it's about 50%, maybe 60%, of normal. No interest in play yet, just interested in what's in the trashcans and yesterday's episode w/the toilet paper shredding, which she hasn't repeated. In fact, she hasn't even gone back to the bathroom again to my knowledge.

She does want up on my lap and is putting her front feet up on me to be picked up, but she can't even begin to jump up on her own. She was struggling a bit to jump over the little part of the ex-pen where the gate is (the pen is where her water is kept) so hubby rigged up a step for her.

As for the blood work, they only checked thyroid, for ehrlichia, platelets, and blood cell count, since they are trying to rule out other things. I will ask Dr. Boyd if he can check the liver #'s, again.


----------



## MaddiesMom

Hi Leslie- I'm so happy to hear Shadow is still eating and keeping things down!! What great news!! Yay!! It would have been very unusual for your vet to not have checked diabetes on Shadow's very first blood panel. Glucose is one of the standard tests, plus she had urine tests done that also would have shown abnormality in glucose. However, it never hurts to ask.

The *only* symptom I ever had from my liver dog that caused me to take her to the vet originally was drinking lots and lots of water. I thought she might have diabetes or Cushings, but the tests came back liver dysfunction. She'd wake me up several times during the night to drink to the point that I brought her water dish in the bedroom next to her. Her urine was also colorless due to the excessive water drinking. I was taking her out at least 2 times during the night from all the water drinking. Of course it never hurts to ask the vet if they've ruled out Cushings or diabetes or even Addison's Disease as someone else suggested.

Keep on eating, Shadow!! And keep up your good work, Leslie!! We're all thinking of you. :grouphug:


----------



## Leslie

MaddiesMom said:


> Hi Leslie- I'm so happy to hear Shadow is still eating and keeping things down!! What great news!! Yay!! It would have been very unusual for your vet to not have checked diabetes on Shadow's very first blood panel. Glucose is one of the standard tests, plus she had urine tests done that also would have shown abnormality in glucose. However, it never hurts to ask.
> 
> The *only* symptom I ever had from my liver dog that caused me to take her to the vet originally was drinking lots and lots of water. I thought she might have diabetes or Cushings, but the tests came back liver dysfunction. She'd wake me up several times during the night to drink to the point that I brought her water dish in the bedroom next to her. Her urine was also colorless due to the excessive water drinking. I was taking her out at least 2 times during the night from all the water drinking. Of course it never hurts to ask the vet if they've ruled out Cushings or diabetes or even Addison's Disease as someone else suggested.
> 
> Keep on eating, Shadow!! And keep up your good work, Leslie!! We're all thinking of you. :grouphug:


They have ruled out Addison's, and perhaps they've ruled out Cushings and diabetes, as well, but haven't told me. Thanks for telling me the water drinking/colorless urine can be liver symptoms as well.

You're such a "goldmine" of information...a true gem!


----------



## juliav

Hi Leslie,

It's great to hear that Sahdow is doing better, eating and keeping her food down. As far as the frequent drinking and colorless urine, make sure you ask about kidneys as it's one of the symptoms of kidney problems as well.


----------



## Missy

great news leslie. Each day is getting better and better.


----------



## Julie

Leslie and Shadow-
Just wanted you to know,I'm still thinking about you two and checking this thread several times a day for updates.:hug:


----------



## Leslie

havashadow said:


> *They have ruled out Addison's*, and perhaps they've ruled out Cushings and diabetes, as well, but haven't told me. Thanks for telling me the water drinking/colorless urine can be liver symptoms as well.
> 
> You're such a "goldmine" of information...a true gem!


Ok, call me a liar. When I reported to the dr. about Shadow's excessive drinking/urinating, he says it brings him back to thinking it has a possibility of being Addison's. Her symptoms do fit the profile of an Addison's dog. I guess the screening for it looks like that's not it. However, to be certain, there is another test that has to be given. That test _is_ definitive. He said we will do that one, _unless she continues to improve_ as she has. She will be seeing him tomorrow at 11 AM. I'll let you know what he says.

She isn't eating as well as she did yesterday. She turned her nose up at lunch, hope dinner looks better to her. Although it will be the same thing: boiled chicken breast.


----------



## good buddy

OK, I never read the forum at work, but I was reading this today just to see if there was any new information. There was! and it's good!! I'm so glad to see Shadow is eating! I was really worried there, and darn your doctors for not getting back to you sooner! :brick: :frusty: I am so reieved to see she is eating and holding it down! and even a nice regular poop! :whoo: We like to hear about that too!! Come on Shadow keep getting better!


----------



## MaddiesMom

Sally (mintchip) just told me yesterday that she has a friend whose Havanese has Addison's. She (her friend) lives in So. Cal also. She offered to put you in touch with her in case its diagnosed. In any case, I guess the second test you mentioned will give a more definitive answer. PM Sally if you need any info. 

Hope Shadow is hungrier later. :hug:


----------



## dotndani

Oh Leslie!
I just don't know how you have been holding up going thru this with poor Shadow!!That dog is really lucky to have a mum like you.
I will continue reading your posts,and I pray to God that all is well with Shadow.Please keep us all posted!


----------



## Cheryl

The screening is a spot cortisol level, which was fine. They can do a test to try to simulate stress and see her level. I think that is what they are doing tomorrow. Thank goodness for blood tests! They are cheaper and less stressful for the patient and the reults are usually pretty fast. 

I am sorry that your roller coaster continues. I think I sometimes check this board to see how Shadow is doing. I know that it is difficult to post when you are working so hard to make your dog eat and progress toward health. I am so thankful for your frequent posts.

Have you developed a good list of questions for the doc tomorrow?


----------



## Doggie Nut

Dot, love you new avatar!


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## BeverlyA

I had to go out of town for a few days and just finally got online. I'm SO happy to hear that Shadow has felt well enough to try and eat some and even shred some TP, both wonderful signs! 
Keep it up Shadow!!!

Leslie, I'm sure this is the furthest thing from your mind right now, but if it were me, I would politely ask to have a copy of all the labs results to put in your own file for Shadow. 
Sometimes when we have the information in front of us, along with the time to do a little research, we can see things even compatant Drs miss. 

Best of luck tomorrow!
Beverly


----------



## Cheryl

I agree with Beverly because Shadow is seeing a variety of docs that may not be on the same page. This is one thing that works better in people medicine.


----------



## brandy

Im soooo sorry your little baby is going through all this. I have been reading this like a book I couldnt put down. So many emotions and still on the edge of my seat to find out how Shadow is going to do. I so hope everything works out for her and you are able to find some peace again. All of you on this forum are a wonderful group of people. Sometimes people just cant understand our deep connections with our pets and how we would do anything we could for them. How sad for them to not know what they are missing and how wonderful that you all get it and care about people too.


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## brandy

She isn't eating as well as she did yesterday. She turned her nose up at lunch, hope dinner looks better to her. Although it will be the same thing: boiled chicken breast.[/QUOTE]

Maybe blend it up with the dry like suggested by the other member with some chicken broth too and warm the whole thing up. Sometimes they like it warm and definetely like the chicken broth. Maybe even some puppy milk replacer. All dogs go crazy for that stuff. That would probably work for you and loads of vitamens and calories too. Make sure with your vet that it's ok to give to her though.

It sure is frustrating when you have to make them eat. You must be exhausted! Hang in there, it will get better and so will your baby!


----------



## Doggie Nut

Leslie, Just wondering how little Shadow is today? I think you mentioned a vet visit today so I look forward to hearing how that went! Still praying!


----------



## NBCZero

I am so sorry shadow is sick  I hope it can be determined what is bothering her and help her get healthy again! Sending her and you lots of prayers.

I know it is so rough not knowing what is bothering our babies. One of our cats had diarrhea for the longest time when he was a kitten. It took months of meds and going to five different vets to finally get a vet to do a tritrichomonas test that was extremly positive. Needless to say, this vet has been our cats main vet ever since, even after we moved an hour away. 

My older cat that recently passed away went to VCA in West L.A. since she needed to see a specialist. They were very kind there and did not have huge egos. She also went to the California Animal Hospital next door to the VCA in west L.A. about 2 years ago. They were the only ones that could help her with an infection she got from a blood test at one of the other vets. 

I know you are in Claremont, so L.A. is a long drive, but just wanted to let you know of some other specialists if you still need to see one. 

Best wishes!

Dixie


----------



## Leslie

She hasn't eaten since breakfast yesterday. She looks like she did on Wed. We see the vet in about an hour. I'll post again when we return.


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## mckennasedona

Poor baby Shadow. The ups and downs of this little girl. I can't imagine how you must feel Leslie. We were all so excited about her gulping her chicken. Maybe they'll decide to do the feeding tube to get some nutrition into her. 

I look at that sweet little dog in your avatar and my heart just breaks. She's so beautiful.

Susan


----------



## Thumper

I hope dinner is a success! Let us know what the vet says...we are praying for Shadow, poor baby!

Hugs,.
Kara


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## Leslie

She's in surgery now. All her blood work looked normal: liver, pancreas, adrenals (Cushing's and Addison's). The only option left was exploratory surgery, so that's where she is. They will take biopsies of several organs, inspect her intestines for anything foreign (string doesn't show up on x-ray or ultrasound) and insert a feeding tube. 

I'll post again when I know how she is.


----------



## lfung5

Gosh leslie, 
I am so sorry she has to go through this. It breaks my heart. I hope everything goes smoothly and you finally get to the bottom of this.


----------



## Cheryl

Oh.....Leslie....I am so sorry and sad for you. I can only imagine the pain you must be in. We can only hope that this will finally provide the necessary answers and their solution. ((((((Hugs to you!))))))


----------



## Julie

:angel:Oh my......surgery:angel:
I pray things go well......
Maybe this is just an obstruction...like thread etc.--stranger things have happened...I watch Animal Planet's Emergency Vets alot!Hope it is just something simple.


----------



## dboudreau

You and Shadow remain in our thoughts and prayers. :grouphug: Lets hope this will bring some answers.:hug:


----------



## mckennasedona

Oh my gosh, Leslie. I cannot even imagine what you are going through right now. Please know that you and your family and little Shadow are in our thoughts and prayers. I so hope they can find out what is wrong. It's very good I suppose that all of her bloodwork came out okay. I so hope that when they look around that they find just the thing that is causing this. If it's something as simple as string or some other oddity she has ingested, hooray!! 

Thank you so much for keeping us updated. I know that logging onto the computer isn't the first thing on your mind when your little one is so sick.

Hugs, 

Susan, Steve, McKenna and Sedona


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## Missy

Oh No Leslie I am so sorry. We're still praying. I'm hoping that her days at home gave her the extra oomf she needed to make the surgery a little easier on her. Hugs and wet kisses from Jasper and Cash


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## MaddiesMom

Oh my....Leslie we're here for you. You've certainly been through the mill. Our prayers are with you and Shadow. Hopefully they'll find out exactly what is wrong with her and treat it. We'll be anxious to hear.....Hugs to you and Shadow. :grouphug:


----------



## mintchip

Sending prayers,good wishes and hugs to you Leslie,Shadow and family


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## Leeann

Leslie we are thinking of you and Shadow, you are in our thoughts & prayers.


----------



## kimoh

Leslie,

I have been reading yours and Shadow's story everyday. I can't tell you how sorry I am that he now needs surgery. I hope and pray they find some answers for you. As always you are both in my thoughts and prayers.
Kim


----------



## juliav

Leslie,

I am so very sorry to hear about all the stumbling blocks along Shadow's and your way. I hope this surgery will finally shed the light on what's wrong with Shadow and lead to the best possible resolution. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and little Shadow.

All the best,


----------



## JASHavanese

havashadow said:


> She's in surgery now. All her blood work looked normal: liver, pancreas, adrenals (Cushing's and Addison's). The only option left was exploratory surgery, so that's where she is. They will take biopsies of several organs, inspect her intestines for anything foreign (string doesn't show up on x-ray or ultrasound) and insert a feeding tube.
> 
> I'll post again when I know how she is.


Our prayers are with you and Shadow. Oh I hope this is something simple that can be fixed and give you your Shadow back.


----------



## Leslie

Not good news.

We will not know definitively until all the lab results come back next week. But, the vet says it appears to him to be her liver that is probably causing the problem. He says it is under-developed looking. Whether or not it is MVD won't be known until the lab results are returned. He also took biopsies of her pancreas and sm. intestine for testing, also, just in case. He put in a feeding tube, as well.

If all goes well we will bring her home tomorrow. I'll let you all know how she does.

Thank you for all the support and well wishes. You all are just so amazing!

God bless,
Leslie


----------



## Laurief

Leslie, the good thing about this is that you were able to get her to eat and gain some strength before this surgery. I am so sorry that it has come to this but I pray that they will be able to get to the bottom of this!
Laurie


----------



## Laurief

Leslie, you must have been posting the same time I was. Good news is she made it thru surgery and I am sure that they will find a solution! Our prayers are with you, hope you are able to get a good night sleep. She is a strong girl, she ate and played for you, so she will. work hard at getting well too!
We are all thinking about you!
Laurie


----------



## mckennasedona

She's through surgery!! Yeah!! 

Leslie, have you heard of Dr. W. Jean Dodds? I've heard a lot about her and I understand she is well versed in canine liver disease. She's in Santa Monica. I wonder if she does phone consults on liver diets for dogs in Shadow's condition.


----------



## mintchip

We are all thinking about you! (and putting on our heavy duty knee pads!)


----------



## Laurief

Leslie - beside the prayers that are constant - is there ANYTHING I or we can do for you to help you thru this??
Laurie


----------



## NBCZero

I hope there will be answers as to what is going on and that there are simple solutions so she may have a long healthy life ahead. Bless you and Shadow 

Dixie


----------



## MaddiesMom

I'm so happy Shadow is through her surgery! Leslie, try not to get discouraged. I know you've had so many ups and downs. Susan is right about Dr. Jean Dodds. She has created a liver cleansing diet for liver dogs. Monica Segal also has a specialized diet for liver dogs. Their recipes are in the "file" section of the support group I gave you. PM me if you need it. Of course, right now Shadow won't eat it. But with the feeding tube to give her nutrition and strength, she may very well eat it easily later on. With the feeding tube, the doctors can give her the exact protein restricted diet she needs. Treating these dogs can be a roller coaster ride as you've discovered, but so many of these dogs do well once they've regained their strength and eat the appropriate diet. *ANYTHING* we can do for you, just ask! Sending Shadow healing thoughts and lots of hugs for you.


----------



## mckennasedona

I know humans can regenerate a liver so it would seem that a damaged liver can be eventually healed if caught early enough. Would it make sense that an undersized liver could be healed as well or am I way off base on this? I'm interested because a dear (human) friend of ours is on a liver transplant list and needs one within 6 mos to a year if she is to live.

Susan


----------



## JASHavanese

havashadow said:


> Not good news.
> 
> We will not know definitively until all the lab results come back next week. But, the vet says it appears to him to be her liver that is probably causing the problem. He says it is under-developed looking. Whether or not it is MVD won't be known until the lab results are returned. He also took biopsies of her pancreas and sm. intestine for testing, also, just in case. He put in a feeding tube, as well.
> 
> If all goes well we will bring her home tomorrow. I'll let you all know how she does.
> 
> Thank you for all the support and well wishes. You all are just so amazing!
> 
> God bless,
> Leslie


((((((((((((((Leslie and Shadow)))))))))))))))


----------



## Missy

Leslie, it is great she made it thru surgery. I hope you get the answers you need soon. Continues thoughts and prayers.


----------



## havanesebyha

Oh Leslie, I was gone all day and just got home and logged in to see how Shadow is doing and just read she is in surgery.....poor baby........I feel so bad for you and all the ups and downs with Shadow. I'm praying for you Leslie that Shadow is alright and they find out in a hurry now what all of this is. Leslie you poor dear, I wish I was near you and would come sit with you while you wait. Please know we are all praying for Shadow and she will be back to normal soon.

God Bless you,

Libby & Kohana


----------



## marbenv

Leslie,

I just read about Shadow's surgery. We're still praying for her recovery and peace for you. Maybe now at least you'll get some definitive answers.:grouphug: 

Marsha


----------



## SMARTY

We aare so sorry Shadow , you and your family have had to go through so much. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.


----------



## Amy R.

Leslie, Sending heartfelt prayers and best thoughts for Shadow, and hugs and strength for you. You are magnificent.


----------



## anneks

I am sorry to hear tht Shadow had to have surgery today. I hope that whatever they find out will help her get better quickly!! My heart goes out to you.


----------



## Havtahava

Leslie, I was also gone all day and just got home to find the news about Shadow being in surgery. I'm glad she is out, but so sorry it came to this. I think of you two often. I just keep hoping for some kind of solution to come quickly.


----------



## The Fussy Puppy Gang

Leslie,

I'm sorry Shadow is having such a hard time with this. She is in my thoughts and prayers still, and now I am also hoping that whatever the tests reveal, that Shadow will be well sooner rather than later.

Thinking of you both and sending healing hugs to your little girl :hug: 

Wanda


----------



## Doggie Nut

Leslie.....I don't feel my words are adequate right now to express my sincere concern for you and Shadow. I am,like everyone else here,so glad that she came through the surgery. This just proves that she is a strong little fighter! I pray for the Peace of God to engulf you tonight and in the coming days and also for continued wisdom for the doctors as they take the right path for healing for Shadow. I know you are a woman of faith and I know who your trust is in. Keep us posted as you are able!


----------



## Leslie

Shadow is finally at peace. She passed away this evening at about 7:30. Seems the surgery was more than she could handle. That tiny little thing sure endured a lot these past few weeks and I am glad she won't have to deal with anymore pain.

I can't even begin to convey my appreciation for all of you who prayed for her. I know she suffered less and I was strengthened because of them. Thank you.

God bless you all. 

Rest well my precious little one. It's all over, baby. I love you!


----------



## Sunnygirl

Leslie, I'm so saddened to hear about Shadow. This must be beyond difficult for you. You're in my thoughts.


----------



## Doggie Nut

Oh Leslie.....I wish I were there to talk in person....I am crying for Shadow....what a brave little girl and what an incredible mom. I am at a loss right now for words to say....please know that I am continuing my prayers for the days and weeks to come as you and your family come through this enormous loss.


----------



## anneks

I am so sorry to hear that Shadow is gone. My heart is breaking for you! Shadow was lucky to have had an owner that loved her so much and took care of her so well while she was here. I am sure she will be very missed.


----------



## Cheryl

I cannot beleive that after all this,that we have this ending. I have to beliee that a part of me is relieved. The rest of me is in giant pain for you!!!!!\\


----------



## radar_jones

Just a little something for you Leslie that I'm sure we all share together


If it should be.... 


If it should be that I grow frail and weak,
and pain should keep me from my sleep,
then you must do what must be done,
for we know this last battle can't be won.

You will be sad, I understand,
but don't let grief then stay your hand,
for this day, more than the rest,
your love and friendship must stand the test.

We've had so many happy years,
what is to come can hold no fears.
Would you want me to suffer? So,
when the time comes, please let me go.

Take me where my needs they'll tend,
only stay with me until the end,
and hold me firm and speak to me,
until my eyes no longer see.

It is a kindness that you do to me,
although my tail it's last has waved,
from pain and suffering I have been saved.

Do not grieve, it should be you,
who must decide this thing to do.
We've been so close, we two these years,
Don't let your heart hold any tears.

Author unknown


----------



## The Fussy Puppy Gang

Leslie,

I'm so very sorry. My heart hurts for you both. I'm lighting a candle for your beautiful Shadow right now - to help light her way to the Rainbow Bridge. I know she will be waiting for you, watching over you, and loving you until you can be together again.

Godspeed little Shadow.

My deepest sympathies,
Wanda


----------



## mintchip

Leslie-
Sorry to hear the news. Love and hugs to you and your family-
Sally

Lend Me A Pup 

I will lend to you for awhile 
a puppy, God said, 
For you to love him while he lives 
and to mourn for him when he is gone. 
Maybe for twelve or fourteen years, 
or maybe for two or three 
But will you, till I call him back 
take care of him for me? 

He'll bring his charms to gladden you 
and (should his stay be brief) 
you'll always have his memories 
as solace for your grief. 
I cannot promise that he will stay, 
since all from earth return, 
But there are lessons taught below 
I want this pup to learn. 

I've looked the whole world over 
in search of teachers true 
And from the folk that crowd life's land 
I have chosen you. 
Now will you give him all your love 
Nor think the labour vain 
Nor hate me when I come to take my pup back again. 

I fancied that I heard them say 
"Dear Lord Thy Will Be Done," 
For all the joys this pup will bring, 
the risk of grief you'll run. 
Will you shelter him with tenderness 
Will you love him while you may 
And for the happiness you'll know forever grateful
stay. 

But should I call him back 
much sooner than you've planned 
Please brave the bitter grief that comes 
and try to understand. 
If, by your love, you've managed 
my wishes to achieve, 
In memory of him that you've loved, 
cherish every moment with your faithful bundle, 
and know he loved you too. 

-Author Unknown


----------



## JASHavanese

havashadow said:


> Shadow is finally at peace. She passed away this evening at about 7:30. Seems the surgery was more than she could handle. That tiny little thing sure endured a lot these past few weeks and I am glad she won't have to deal with anymore pain.
> 
> I can't even begin to convey my appreciation for all of you who prayed for her. I know she suffered less and I was strengthened because of them. Thank you.
> 
> God bless you all.
> 
> Rest well my precious little one. It's all over, baby. I love you!


My gosh, if I'm crying and feel like I've been punched in the stomach I can't even begin to imagine the pain you're feeling. Leslie, God bless you and Shadow is in His arms tonite with a perfect little body.


----------



## ECudmore

*shadow sick*

Hope the little guy get well soon. My vet thinks it is a good idea to have an xray when they continue to throw up.
Elayne and Racquet


----------



## Amy R.

Literally weeping at my computer for sweet little Shadow tonight. Leslie, all your love and care and diligence were beyond inspiring. I grieve your loss, and send continued hugs and prayers to you and your family.


----------



## juliav

Word can't express the sorrow and pain I am feeling for you and little Shadow. Tears are rolling down my cheeks and part of me still can't believe that after all she has gone. 

We are here for you - hugs,


----------



## MopTop Havanese

I am so sorry~
I am thankful Shadow is no longer in pain, but I am so sorry for the pain you must feel~
Rest In Peace dear sweet Shadow.


----------



## Leeann

Leslie word can not express how I feel right now, I'm so sorry for you loss. Rest in peace Shadow and know that you were truly loved.


----------



## Gableshavs

Dear Leslie,
I've been following your story about Shadow, and praying for her recovery. I'm so sad that she did not make it for you and your family. I'm crying and feeling your loss as well. Shadow was a very special little dog and you did everything possible to help her. You were the best mommy.
Hugs,
Paula


----------



## ama0722

Leslie,
I am so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine the emotions you are feeling right now but I hope Shadow is doing run like hells and eating whatever she wants today. I hope you get some comfort in that all of us will be hugging our furkids today and remembering that our moments with them are all too short.

Hugs,
Amanda

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.
All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor. Those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent. His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together.... 

Author unknown...


----------



## Laurief

As I type, tears are streaming. Leslie I am so sorry that this came to this conculsion. I was so sure that they would be able to get Shadow thru this to a positive end. She no longer suffers, that must be a relief but I cannot say I know how you feel. as I cannot even imagine.
Thank you for the privelage of being a part of Shadows life and I pray you and your family can heal from all this. 
Laurie


----------



## TnTWalter

*Leslie*

I am so sorry. She was such a sweet little girl and you were the best mommy to her. Big [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[HUGS]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

Trish


----------



## kimoh

Leslie,

I can't believe it, I am crying as I type. Words are not enough to express how sorry I am for your loss. I am thankful poor little Shadow is at peace.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
{{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}
Kim


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## lfung5

Leslie,
I can't even express how sorry I was to read about shadow. This weighs hard on me today. My deepest sympathy. .


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## Thumper

I am SO sorry  I am completely speechless and shocked. Our prayers and thoughts are with you and Shadow. You did everything you could and I'm so sorry for your loss. It is heartbreaking.

:grouphug:
hugs,
Kara and Gucci


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## marbenv

Leslie,

I am so sorry that Shadow didn't recover from this. Just know that you both fought the good fight. You did everything a loving mom could possibly do. I know you miss her terribly and you and your family are still in our prayers for peace and comfort at this time.

Marsha


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## Missy

Oh Leslie, I too can't imagine how you must feel--Because I am in tears typing this. Shadow was was very loved by her humans (you are such a great mommy) and those of us she so touched on this forum. She gave us all a good fight. Rest in Peace dear sweet Shadow. We're here for you Leslie.


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## Judy A

Leslie, I'm so sorry for your loss and pray that you know you did everything you could to save little Shadow. How hard this must be for you, but know also that you and Shadow have touched many lives and we all are sharing in your pain. God Bless You.


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## Julie

Tears are rolling down my face reading these sad posts.I am so sorry for the loss of your sweet little girl Shadow.I'm disappointed in the outcome,but God knows best......
Leslie--you will one day hold your sweet little Shadow again....:angel:


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## irnfit

Leslie,
I am so sorry for your loss. I know exactly how you are feeling. Anyone who has lost a beloved pet knows this. I am at work right now with tears streaming down my face. 

You did everything you could for little Shadow. I just hope you get some resolution out of this, and peace. My prayer for you is that you heal quickly from this loss. You were blessed by having Shadow. You know what a terrific breed this is and one can only hope that in due time, you will find it in your heart to have another one.


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## Brady's mom

Leslie,
I am so sorry for your loss. Shadow was a brave little one who put up a good fight. I am so heartbroken for you. Please know that you are in my thoughts and I will be praying for you, Shadow and your family/


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## RedHeadedGator

Leslie - I am crying while I write this. I am so incredibly sorry to hear about little Shadow. The girls and I pray for your healing and to know that she is in a better place. Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help you through this time and the loss of your little girl. Please also know that you did everything you could and that you were the best mommy Shadow could have ever asked for! God Bless you and your family.


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## mckennasedona

Leslie,
I am so sorry for you and your family. You did so much for your little girl and she was so strong through it all. I logged in this morning just to check on her and I am tears. In sharing her struggle with us she became "our little Shadow" and we grieve with you. 

Be at peace little Shadow. We all loved you!!

Susan, Steve, McKenna and Sedona


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## MaddiesMom

Leslie- I am so, so sorry. The tears I am crying can't compare to the deep loss you are feeling. Please find some comfort in that you did *everything* you could to save your girl. I'm thankful in her short life she was blessed with a Mommy like you. We all loved Shadow through your sharing, and we will continue to be here for you. I know my precious Panda is welcoming your precious Shadow to the Bridge.

Your friend,

Jeanne


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## CinnCinn

There are no words to express these feelings. I am so sorry for your loss.
I will continue to pray for your family.

Sincerely,
Cindy


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## Lina

Leslie,

I feel like I have really become attached to you and Shadow through these last weeks and I can't believe that I actually have tears in my eyes as I write this. I am so very sorry for your loss. I am sure that Shadow is in a better place and I will keep you and your family in my thoughts through this hard time.


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## havanesebyha

Leslie,

As I sent you a private message last night I want you to know today after reading all of the messages this morning, your little girl brought such love to all of us. We are all crying for the loss of little Shadow and we all became so attached to her and to you. You were the best mommy and did all you could possibly do to help her. Leslie, she put up a good fight and knows you loved her so very much and she sure loved you and your family. I believe she is up in Rainbow Bridge right now running and playing with all the animals and someday you two will again be together. 

Your friend,

Libby


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## ruthann

My heart is breaking for you. Shadow will always be with you. The memories of Shadow's love and kisses will last forever.
Ruth Ann and Annabelle


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## Lynn

Leslie,

I am so sorry. I just spend the last 30 - 45 minutes reading this thread and you did everything possible for Shadow, you must have loved him so much. I wish I could say something to help you feel better, but I am sure this is very hard for you, and only time can heal the pain. Please know that I will be keeping you in my prays for a very long time.


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## good buddy

Leslie, I'm so sorry it all had to end like this. You made a valiant effort to help her. I guess it was just her ttime to go. I'm sending you love and healing thoughts. :grouphug: I'm sure Shadow appreciated being able to be home with you these last days. :hug:


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## whitBmom

Oh no  I am so sorry for your loss Leslie. My deepest condolences to you and your family. Shadow was so brave. I am at a sincere loss for words, and I also feel like I have been hit in the stomach. Big hugs to you, and please take solace that you did everything you could for your loved one. :grouphug:


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## dotndani

Leslie,
I was away this weekend and logged on to specifically see what was going on with Shadow.I am in tears right now after reading that Shadow is finally at peace.I wish I could be there for you,but instead I am sending you tons of cyber hugs and support.
You were a great mommy and did all you can.My thoughts and prayers are with you during this sad time.


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## BeverlyA

Oh Leslie, I was so saddened by the news of Shadow's passing. I hope you're finding some peace and comfort in the fact that little Shadow is no longer hurting and will one day be waiting for you at the Rainbow Bridge.

Shadow was so lucky to have such a wonderful, loving mommy as you, who took such good care of her. 

You're in our thoughts and prayers. Thank you for doing everything possible to help Shadow. She was so brave, and so are you. Now take time to do what is right for you, to help you begin to heal, and we will all be here for you.

Beverly and Jim


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## Jane

Leslie,

I am so sad to hear about Shadow. Thank you for sharing her life with us - we will all miss her. I am so in awe of everything you did for her. I wish the outcome had been different. You were the best mommy to her. 

Peace,


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## NBCZero

I am so sorry to read that Shadow has passed away ! Bless you and your family. You are in my thoughts and prayers :'(

Dixie


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## KristinFusco

Oh gosh Leslie I am so so so sorry. I cried my eyes out when I read this. You were a wonderful humommy to Shadow and I am sure she knew how much you loved and adored her.

~Kristin


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## Leslie

Hi all,

I'm not sure I have the words to express the appreciation I feel from all of the sympathy, comfort and love you've shared with me. This has been a very difficult road, but it was easier to travel because of your advice, encouragement, love, and prayers. Besides what's publically posted here, I've received so many special private messages of love and concern. I don't think I could ever repay what you have done for me. You have shown your love for my baby, Shadow, and for me, I can't thank you enough. So many of you absolutely understand what I'm feeling and going through. You've come along side me and helped hold me up. My deepest gratitude to you.

I'd like to share one more Shadow story to touch your hearts. 

Saturday morning, when we were in the waiting room before we gave her to the doctor for surgery, my DH was holding her. She was a pathetic little thing at this point. Her weight had dropped to less than 4 lb., she was so weak and about all she could muster was a very limp tail wag now and then. When the vet came in to discuss the details of surgery, Shadow began licking my hubby's hand, not once, but repeatedly. Understand, the dog who "can't hold its licker" hadn't been licking anyone for days, she was just too weak. Well, as he handed her to the vet, I leaned over to kiss her and she licked my face. I know now, she probably knew what was going to happen and was kissing us goodbye. 

I want to thank you all for sharing in this journey with me. It would have been so much harder without you. 

I plan to stay here and continue to read about all that's going on w/you and your furbabies. After all, some of my new best friends are here and it's a good place to find a laugh. And maybe before too long we'll be ready to risk loving a new little one and I'll share that news when it happens. But for now, we'll just love the memories we have of our most precious furbaby, Shadow.

May God bless you all as deeply as you have blessed me.

Leslie


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## mintchip




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## Laurief

What a beautiful story! I believe you were right and it was so nice that you got to have such a nice good bye. We are privileged have have gone on this difficult journey with you and your family. Thanks for sharing.
Laurie


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## Julie

How sweet Leslie:kiss::kiss:
That is very touching.I'm happy that you will keep Shadow in your heart,but move forward.Sometimes it is easy to get stuck in the grieving process.Please stay on the forum and "chat" with us......:hug::grouphug::hug:


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## dotndani

Leslie,
As a first time dog owner I never realized what an impact a dog can have on a person,let alone my entire family.When I was crying when I found out about Shadow I expected my hubby to think I was ridiculous,but after I read all the posts out loud I looked over at him and he had tears in his eyes and was petting Duncan.
I so deeply am sharing your grief and really wish I could do something for you.Just know that you will be in my prayers and thoughts.Thank you for sharing your last time with Shadow.The love she had for you and your family was something you will always have in your heart.
God Bless you and your family and Shadow's little soul.
DOt


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## Jan D

Leslie,
I'm so sorry to hear about your Shadow. How empty you must feel. You had a wonderful last visit with Shadow and you'll remember all the memories you had with her. All my best at this sad time for you. Time will heal and soon you'll be smiling every time you think of her...

Jan


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## Olliesmom

Dear Leslie and Family:

I just found out about Shadow. I am so very sorry for your loss. You and your family are incredible fur parents and Shadow was so very lucky. My heart goes out to you. I know you willl find it in your heart to make room for a new furbaby when you feel the time is right (hopefully sooner than later!...as you know how much we love puppy pix!!)

God bless and know we are here for you...


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## marbenv

Leslie,

Thank you so much for sharing Shadow's goodbye with us. You will always hold her in your heart and you will love again.

Marsha


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## LuvMyHavanese

I havent read this thread in a couple days. I cannot believe what has happened. I am here reading this at work, tears streaming down my face. In part because of the thought of being in your place if it were my pups. Unspeakable grief. Its hard to imagine how much these little fur babies impact our lives.
I pray that you can find comfort in this time of grief. I am so truly sorry this has happened to Shadow & your family.


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## SMARTY

Leslie, there has never been a day in my life that I did not have at least one dog. I have lost old ones and young ones, some to long illnesses and some very quickly, it is never easy. Some broke my heart to the point I thought I never wanted to go through this again, but I did. Each new one never replaced the one we had lost but became a new love in our lives. So from experience the one thing I do know for sure, there is another beautiful pup or adult out there that will welcome your love and give you 100% of theirs. Take time to heal, when you are ready the perfect new love is waiting.


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## Missy

Leslie, Thanks you for sharing Shadow's last day with us. I had become so fond of you and Shadow--- that I do share your grief. I too am a first time dog owner and am amazed at the space (all marvelous) they take in your life. 

We all felt for you and Shadow because you are part of this Havanese family- but also because this story could happen to any of us. 

My Husband and I kept coming back to our vacation rental to check on Shadow. We were both so moved by your trials and your courage and your willingness to share that when we returned home- he actually joined the forum. 

I know it will be a while but I know you will find a Hav to love someday soon. I bet Shadow would want you to have another pup when you are ready. 

god bless...


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## marjrc

I had so hoped to read some good news this afternoon, but it is not to be. I am so deeply touched by your story, Leslie. I'm having a hard time stopping the tears. I was constantly thinking of Shadow throughout your trials and praying things would go well. If I find this emotional and so sad, I can only imagine what you are going through.  

Please know you are in my thoughts and heart and we are here for you no matter what. You did the best you possibly could and I'm sure Shadow knew that and loved you all the more. 

God bless you. (((((((hugs)))))))))


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## brandy

Oh NO! Leslie, I'm so sorry to hear about Shadow. She was quite a little fighter wasnt she. My heart goes out to you. Your little Shadow really touched my heart and obviously a lot of others. Warmest regards to you and your family.:hug:


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## EMarie

O my goosh...I was not expecting this at all...Leslie I am so sorry for your loss and I don't even have the words to explain all the emotions I am feeling I can't imagine how you are feeling!!! I can say that you are in my thoughts and prayers and will be for a long time!!

Erin


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## Cheryl

Leslie, I have followed your story all along, but I was moved to tears again with your recalling of Shadow prior to surgery. She loved you and showed it the only way that she could. As tough as this has been on you, I think that someday you may recall how lucky you were to know Shadow. And everyone here knows that Shadow was the luckiest dog of them all--because you chose her!!!!


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## Havtahava

That's so true, Cheryl.

Leslie, I keep coming back to this topic and I'm not sure why. I just feel so badly for you and keep hoping for some kind of good news to surface. I can't even tell you how sorry I am.


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## Lola

I just read about your precious little Shadow and I am so so sorry for your loss. I can't believe that something like this could happen so fast. I will be thinking of you and I have learned a lesson from this awful tragedy that I should always question the care my pets receive from the Vet and go with my gut feeling if something does not feel right. I am so sorry for your family that you have suffered this loss. You and Shadow will be in my prayers. Take care.


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## Mojito/Bruiser

Leslie, I just logged in today. I am so sorry to hear about Shadow. I am at work and a mess. 

So sorry to hear about your loss. 

Love and Light

Victor and Jorge.


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## Rita

Oh Leslie, I have been off line for weeks and just noticed the sad news. My heart is breaking for you. You are in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Cosmosmom

I know it is hard for you still but hopefully the day will come when you can find room in your heart for a new dog ..
I was so devastated by the loss of Asta but I did find solace in Cosmo .. It was hard in the beginning as I kept comparing the two dogs as Cosmo was just so different .. but it is a good different .
It has been a year now and every day I still remeber Asta as he was so special .
The good news is that we found two different furry friends to fill our hearts with joy and laughter .. 
It will take time and we know there will never be another Shadow but maybe one day like us you will be ready to open your heart again .. 
Take care ..


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## hyenna

I am new to the forum and read the story about Shadow.... I cried reading every post and reply...I could not imagin life without Lizzy ...when my poodle past I morned like you would a child and thats what these little fellows are to us our children..... Just wanted to no if you got another puppy maybe I missed the post.... I feel in my heart all our dogs are in Heaven and when we get there they will be right there to meet us....Helene


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## Laurief

Helene - you will see that Leslie has welcomed a beautiful black little girl named Tori. I am sure if you search for Threads with Tori -you will find her. We all grieved so terribly for Shadow and are so happy that Leslie has been able to remain a member of our Hav group, and Tori is a PIP - check out her threads!!!


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## hyenna

Hi Lily...I will do that and so happy she has a new Hav....God Bless her....Helene


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## Leslie

Helene~ Thank you for taking the time to read through this thread. I sure was surprised to see it on the front page today. Yes, losing Shadow was more than heartbreaking, and I don't think I could have gotten through it without all of the TLC we received from the wonderful members of this forum. They truly are amazing individuals with hearts as big as all outdoors :grouphug:

As Laurie posted, Tori came to live with us in October after we lost Shadow. Tori is absolutely "what the doctor ordered". She is phenomenal and has completely filled the "Hav-shaped hole" in our hearts left by Shadow. We couldn't have asked for a more perfect fit for our lives.

Here are pix of our precious Tori, then and now.


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## Cosmosmom

What A little Luv .. an incredible face ..
Shadow is with Asta smiling down on you & Tori .


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## hyenna

Leslie, Tori, is adorable so sweet and cute...my she would win anyones heart....I am so happy to hear you have another luv in your life and never forgetting Shadow.... I am always happy you have gotten a new puppy in your life....it is as Dorothy Goodale wrote.... Havs are the sunshine in our lives, and that is oh so true....I have never had a dog like these Havs are..... Lizzy will brighten my day if Iam down and out how wonderful is that.
I don'y no how I found this forum but it puts smiles and on my face.... but when I read about Shadow my heart grieved knowing what is is like to lose a dog that you so love...
Nice to meet you Leslie....Helene


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## Evye's Mom

Leslie, a very belated post. Through many, many tears I just read through Shadow's story. Bless you !!! My heart aches for you still. Your story is very similar to mine. We fought a gallant battle. We do all we can to save our babies. When it results in their passing, there is such sorrow and sadness. Reading this, I realize we never get over our loss, but allowing another precious pet into our lives, our hearts, some how helps. If helps a lot to share our love and focus on something other than our intense grief. I felt guilty about that initially. If I could have the opportunity to know what they would want me to do, they would never want me to go on being sad and lonely. I hope Tori brightens your days and lessens your saddness...and always will Shadow leave special paw prints within your heart forever.


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## hyenna

Sharlene, I thought of Leslie when I watch Oprah ... she lost one of her puppies and one has been in the hospital for 8 days now....I look at my Lizzy and wish she could talk wouldn't that be something? but its a mother instinct to pick up on when her children are ill ...and us dogs lovers feel the same when are dogs are ill.....Helene


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## Evye's Mom

Sort of hated that I missed that Oprah episode but then again sort of glad I did. I still haven't been able to see the movie Marley and Me.


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## hyenna

I teared up seeing the puppy in the hospital but she is doing well and is going to make it ...she caught Parvol from her brother who past...it was so very sad....You could also see how much Oprah loved these puppies.... I had a poodle and at 14 I had to put him to sleep that was the hardest thing I ever had to do... these creaters that God has given us to love also depend on us for their well being...yep..I guess you would say that are so much like us....


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## Missy

Oh gosh, my heart sank when I saw this thread come up. But it is such a good example of the heart of this forum and how it lives on with new and old members (referring to Julies thread) I am sure everyone of us oldtimers remember exactly what we were doing when Leslie was going through this with Shadow. I was on vacation in Maine through a lot of it... and felt compelled to get back to our rental to plug in the dial up computer to check at least twice a day... My DH would ask me how is Shadow doing? And we would both look at our pups and couldn't imagine going through it with one of them. 

Although I am sure it is bittersweet for it to come up again for you Leslie, it is just proof that Shadow lives on in all our hearts...and that our collective story as a community through that time offers inspiration and experience to all those who are new. That is the cool thing about the internet (and I suppose sometimes the bad thing) ...the words live for ever.

Sending out a prayer to Shadow. Hugs to Leslie and Ear scratchies to Tori.


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## ls-indy

Tears are running down my face.... I remember every dog I've had and how much I miss each of them... Hugs to all and hugs to our puppies....


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## Leslie

Missy~ I was quite surprised to see this when I came here this morning, too. It is bittersweet to see it active again. In reflecting on Julie's thread and all that's been shared there, I think our shared experience w/Shadow may be a big part of what "cemented" us "oldies" so tightly together. :grouphug:
I do hope that our new members can see the love and caring this amazingly wonderful community has to share as they read through this and that they know that kind of love and care is still here for them, if they need it.

Hugs back to you :hug: and Tori says thanks for the ear scratches :biggrin1:


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## Evye's Mom

Yes, the love, caring and genuine concern is quite obvious.

I sure hope I didn't reopen wounds and make everyone sad, especially you Leslie. :grouphug:

I have noticed your signature and having had a fairly recent loss, it has taken me this long to be able to read it. We do heal, in time, but there is always that special place they hold where we never stop missing them. I could not have read the thread without letting you know how sorry I was.


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## mckennasedona

I was taken aback to see this title appear. I thought there was another Shadow who was sick then I looked at the number of views and responses and realized it was "our" little Shadow. I remeber this thread and tears that were shed (and shared) by all of us.


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## Evye's Mom

Oh no, I hope I didn't do something insensitive......._I'm sorry_.


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## hyenna

I was not a member when little shadow went to heaven, but I did read the post and was so sadden and knew what anyone had gone through since i went through it myself... and when Oprah had her new little Saddie in the hospital...I thought of Shadow and Les and anyone else out there that have lost their beloved pet....you moarn for our little guys as though they were human and sometimes I think they have allot of our traits....They give us comfort....When my husband father past away he went to bed just heart broken (sudden heart attack) and at the time I had my Poddle.....she senced something was wrong and got on the bed and laid next to my husband like giving him comfort... I cry when I think of how much these little guys no about us.....I beleieve when we all go to Heaven are beloved dogs will be there welcome us.... after all God says whatever we love will be there.....Helene


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## Leslie

Evye's Mom said:


> Yes, the love, caring and genuine concern is quite obvious.
> 
> I sure hope I didn't reopen wounds and make everyone sad, especially you Leslie. :grouphug:
> 
> I have noticed your signature and having had a fairly recent loss, it has taken me this long to be able to read it. We do heal, in time, but there is always that special place they hold where we never stop missing them. I could not have read the thread without letting you know how sorry I was.


Sharlene~ Please don't apologize for sharing your thoughts and feelings here. I'm sorry you've suffered a loss recently. Reading this must have been difficult for you.

I will always miss Shadow and be sad that her life was so short. But, I am grateful for the time I had with her, for all she taught me and for all the dear friends I made as a result of owning her. As for reopening wounds, time and Tori have helped tremendously to heal my heart and I'm doing ok


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## Evye's Mom

Yes, Leslie....same here. Time and my new little ones have helped me as well. Both have a very healing effect.


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## Baryl's Buddy

*I'm SOOO Soory*

:angel: I'm sorry, I can't imagine what you went through. You were the best mommy ever.
Domenic :angel:


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## Missy

Leslie, I gasped when I saw this come up. But in a way I am glad it is here for all of us to remember. Shadow touched all of us so when we were just a handful or two HCDL's and she is still touching new members. I hope you are racing with your buddies Sweet Shadow. Hugs to you Leslie and your beautiful Tori.


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