# Another bout of diarrhea



## jill1034 (Feb 1, 2016)

Sadly, I am seeing that our issues are not uncommon here. Not sure if that makes me feel better or not. Someone wrote, our pup has been on chicken and rice more than any other food. I can so relate. It is 8:11am here and trying to wait patiently for the vet's office to open at 9 am. I cannot believe our puppy has diarrhea again. It is pure liquid. I feel like we cannot leave the house for fear that he will get sick. Here is a little bit of our story that I posted on another thread:

We have an 8 mth old and he has been to the vet every month since we got him. 2 of the 6 months have not been for stomach issues. In May he had a bacterial infection with colitis. Now he has colitis again. He just finished Metrodinazole on Friday 8/26. He had a recurrence of diarrhea on Wed, then blood in his vomit on Thursday. This morning he woke me up and has had liquid stools for about 3 hours now. 

We went to ER yesterday and they just think blood was from a tear in his espoghaus when he vomited. They think he vomited from lack of food in his stomach (which he has done before). They did x-rays but they showed healthy GI. 

Now waiting for the vet's office to open. They told us Wed they would put him back on Metrodinazole if he still had diarrhea. 

(sigh) We never thought we would get a dog (allergies) and now this puppy has been so sick it breaks our hearts daily. 

We aren't sure if it is food or something else. He eats (when not eating chicken & rice & pumpkin) a meatloaf recipe from our vet: 2 lbs of ground meat (beef, turkey or chicken), 3 eggs, Honest Kitchen Preference, & rice. He will seem fine on that for a few days then a bout of soft stools, settles, then ok, then more diarrhea. Some bouts last longer so we get medication. He also eats baked chicken or turkey as treats or toppings to the meatloaf. The vet thought he was allergic to dry kibble so he gets none of that ever, but we still are seeing a consistent healthy pup. 

Thoughts or prayers are appreciated.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

So sorry you are going through this with your dog. We had many months of on and off diarrhea with Molly between age 1 and 2. Always negative stool cultures and no parasites. Metronidizole would help clear it up, along with probiotics and bland diets. We got to the point where the vet wanted to put her on a prescription diet (which my picky girl wouldn't eat anyway). I finally told the vet that I wanted to try a limited ingredient diet with her. She has responded very well to having a single protein source in her food and treats. We are using lamb. I do feel that chicken and turkey did not agree with her and were part of her past problems. I was very surprised with how many foods and treats contain them, even when they are listed as being a different flavor like beef. I also give her a daily probiotic and some raw lamb as a topper. I hope you can find a diet that will help your little guy. It may require research and trial and error on your part. I feel that vets can be too quick to push the prescription foods they sell when there are much healthier alternatives that should be tried first. Good luck and I hope your boy feels better soon.


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## jill1034 (Feb 1, 2016)

How do you cook the lamb? I am not a cook for the humans in the house, so cooking for the dog is new. 
How do you determine how much to give her and what do you add to get the balance nutrients?

Have you done pork tenderloin? Our vet's book recommends very lean pork if the dog cannot tolerate chicken or turkey.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I am using Nature's Variety limited ingredient Lamb and Peas kibble topped with either freeze dried or frozen raw lamb, also by the same company. I would be too afraid to do home cooking, for fear of not having a nutritionally balanced diet. I tried pork first(Acana brand) but my picky eater didn't like it. I went to lamb next and she loves it. I believe there are several brands of quality dog food that offer single protein source using pork that you could try.


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## jill1034 (Feb 1, 2016)

Molly120213 said:


> I am using Nature's Variety limited ingredient Lamb and Peas kibble topped with either freeze dried or frozen raw lamb, also by the same company. I would be too afraid to do home cooking, for fear of not having a nutritionally balanced diet. I tried pork first(Acana brand) but my picky eater didn't like it. I went to lamb next and she loves it. I believe there are several brands of quality dog food that offer single protein source using pork that you could try.


Thank you. As a non-cook, I feel like a company with single ingredient food is a ray of hope. I'll mention this to the vet when he calls back today.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jill1034 said:


> How do you cook the lamb? I am not a cook for the humans in the house, so cooking for the dog is new.
> How do you determine how much to give her and what do you add to get the balance nutrients?
> 
> Have you done pork tenderloin? Our vet's book recommends very lean pork if the dog cannot tolerate chicken or turkey.


Even though I REALLY like THK food, even if you switch proteins, it is FAR from a limited ingredient diet. That.s why we ended up having to talk Kodi off it. Fortunately, there are a number of good quality commercial limited ingredient foods available. I use Nature's Variety, which has a number of different limited ingredient formulas available in both canned and kibble. I currently feed Limited Ingredient Duck, which seems to agree with all of my guys, but I know they also have lamb and turkey. (Not sure what else)

I OFTEN use lean pork loin for training treats. It is a less expensive protein than lamb, usually leaner, and well tolerated by many dogs. Because I use it for training treats, I roast it whole, somewhat more well done than I would for people. This makes it dryer, and easier to cube.

If I were doing home made with either lamb or pork, I'd choose my cuts of whole meat, then ask the butcher's department to grind it for me. Then I'd cook it on the stove with just enough water to keep it from sticking to the pan. Make sure you cook it JUST through... The more you cook it, the more nutrients you lose. (That's what I did with chicken too... Had the butcher shop grind it for me)


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

Molly120213 said:


> So sorry you are going through this with your dog. We had many months of on and off diarrhea with Molly between age 1 and 2. Always negative stool cultures and no parasites. Metronidizole would help clear it up, along with probiotics and bland diets. We got to the point where the vet wanted to put her on a prescription diet (which my picky girl wouldn't eat anyway). I finally told the vet that I wanted to try a limited ingredient diet with her. She has responded very well to having a single protein source in her food and treats. We are using lamb. I do feel that chicken and turkey did not agree with her and were part of her past problems. I was very surprised with how many foods and treats contain them, even when they are listed as being a different flavor like beef. I also give her a daily probiotic and some raw lamb as a topper. I hope you can find a diet that will help your little guy. It may require research and trial and error on your part. I feel that vets can be too quick to push the prescription foods they sell when there are much healthier alternatives that should be tried first. Good luck and I hope your boy feels better soon.


Just curious, Diane. You said Molly is picky and so I was wondering how long she has been on the diet you are currently giving her? Zoe is also and has always been picky and won't stay on any one diet too long. Maybe a few days or a week. I know variety is good for them but it makes things a little tougher for me. And if/when her stomach is off, she just refuses all food for a day or so. Then I will offer her a little bit of chicken and that seems to settle things. I am thinking of trying one of those limited ingredient diets.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Tucker is on Limited Ingredient food, too. Chicken and lamb didn't work for him. He eats duck LID's, too, like Karen's Kodi. There are several good brands out there. You have to just choose one, with a different protein than what you've been feeding, stick with it long enough to see how it works. No diarrhea? Great, stick with it. Diarrhea? After giving it a chance, switch proteins. Be sure to give good probiotics with each meal, also.

I feed Primal Raw Limited Ingredient Duck to Tucker, and he also does well with an occasional canned LID duck meal, too. Nature's Variety is a good brand. Zignature was a brand recommended to me by Dr. Dodds in California, but they only have canned and kibble versions.

I hope it is just a matter of finding the right protein and LID for your sweet little boy.


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

As far as single-source animal protein foods go, Nature's Variety LID and Zignature are going to be some of your best bets, and then there is PureVita, but that's a bit of a step down as far as quality goes. If you are okay with going raw, Stella & Chewy's is single-source on the formulas that have just one protein in the name (beef, lamb, chicken, venison, etc), though it may also have fish oils, and fish is a problem for some. Depending on where you live, Raw Bistro is another option (single-source, LID, fish oil free).

Many brands are beginning to roll out single-source LID as allergies are, unfortunately, becoming more prevalent in our pets.

Hope this clears up for you soon. Diarrhea is horrible already, and our guys' fluffy butts make it that much worse. Your poor pup


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Zoe093014 said:


> Just curious, Diane. You said Molly is picky and so I was wondering how long she has been on the diet you are currently giving her? Zoe is also and has always been picky and won't stay on any one diet too long. Maybe a few days or a week. I know variety is good for them but it makes things a little tougher for me. And if/when her stomach is off, she just refuses all food for a day or so. Then I will offer her a little bit of chicken and that seems to settle things. I am thinking of trying one of those limited ingredient diets.


Molly has been on this diet for about a year now. It has been a miracle for us as far as no more soft or watery stools. She also will go to her dish and gobble down the whole bowl which is something she never did before. She definitely prefers kibble and will still refuse canned food. I just moisten the kibble and add the raw on top, which she loves. We have only had one episode of diarrhea since she started this diet. It was immediately following her being boarded for the weekend and I believe it was due to stress or something she picked up there.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

When Emmie was a puppy, lamb lung gave her diarrhea so I stopped using it as a training treat but she tolerates it now as an adult.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Jill, I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this! It's so stressful when our little ones are sick. I sure hope you can get to the bottom of all the problems. I wonder if it's one of the food items he reacts to. Willow gets diarrhea when she eats chicken or turkey. I've read that it is not unusual for dogs to have a sensitivity to poultry. The vet told us to use a probiotic also when Willow had a bout of diarrhea. Of course my thoughts and prayers are going out to you.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Hearing these posts is giving me hope too! 

So sorry you are going thru this with your sweet puppy too Jill. It seems that if we keep trial and erroring we can make a huge difference in their tummies. Right now I have Sophie still on ZD only which I hate but it is such a relief to see her feeling tons better than she did this summer I am afraid to change. (I plan to once she's stable longer). 

She also gets a probiotic and several herbs from our holistic vet as well as Tylosin (which I think helps the most). I really want to get her off the tylosin if possible. I also want to get back to home cooking, but I would really suggest doing it only with guidance of a nutritionist or holistic vet that knows their stuff. It's so important to have it balanced, if not you may not see the signs of dietary deficits for years even but it can catch up to them and kick them in the butt. Calcium is super important, etc. Our holistic vet guides me with it and we tweak it as Sophie's issues change and improve. 

Sophie has had some diarrhea, gas etc problems since a pup but I think that had a lot to do with all the training treats I gave her.  they were healthy ones but maybe too many. I think she was prone to this anyway but the treats may have been the last straw. (just theory but makes sense). She never seemed to feel bad though. When I switched her from canned to raw, it totally cleared up her poop! 

A few months later I noticed she was eating grass and not quite herself. This went on for about 3 weeks until a weekend when I had to be gone and her puppy sitter (I am hardly ever away from her) accidentally gave her the wrong food so she had a sudden food change. That evening when I got home she was SO sick, projectile vomiting, lethargic, in lots of pain, hiding, dehydrated etc. She was hospitalized 4 times after that and lots of tests etc. 

Now she is tons better although I see signs rearing it's ugly head again when she gets particularly stressed (and it's usually good stress, class, visits, play dates etc). Yet never anywhere near what happened this summer. 

She is suspected to have IBD (and she did develop SIBO also which was why she was extra sick) but I won't put her through the biopsies to confirm it. It's interesting though that she has never had the typical IBD diarrhea issues like most do, she's had some diarrhea at times but more often it's nausea and vomiting, stomach pain etc. 

Don't get too discouraged with your baby, Sophie was so sick for so long I didn't think it would ever end, I'm still working to find that perfect combo for her to keep her feeling well but what we're doing so far has done wonders!

And oddly, Sophie and I are supposed to be on our way to the beach right now for 2 days but my friend going with us has 2 doxies and this morning her Max has had bloody diarrhea and is very sick (I'm guessing HGE) so he is on the way to the ER right now...so it's not just our little havies!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KarMar said:


> As far as single-source animal protein foods go, Nature's Variety LID and Zignature are going to be some of your best bets, and then there is PureVita, but that's a bit of a step down as far as quality goes. If you are okay with going raw, Stella & Chewy's is single-source on the formulas that have just one protein in the name (beef, lamb, chicken, venison, etc), though it may also have fish oils, and fish is a problem for some. Depending on where you live, Raw Bistro is another option (single-source, LID, fish oil free).
> 
> Many brands are beginning to roll out single-source LID as allergies are, unfortunately, becoming more prevalent in our pets.
> 
> Hope this clears up for you soon. Diarrhea is horrible already, and our guys' fluffy butts make it that much worse. Your poor pup


To be clear, though, there is a HUGE difference between a limited ingredient diet and a single source protein diet. Kodi was ALWAYS on a single protein source, Ned it is one that still doesn't bother him. He really needed a limited ingredient diet so we could control for all ingedients more easily. We went with Nature's variety becaus eit's available in both canned and kibble formulas, which makes it easy when we need to chuck some kibble at them in a hurry.  The girls have been thriving on it too, even though they don't need a limited ingredient diet.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

krandall said:


> To be clear, though, there is a HUGE difference between a limited ingredient diet and a single source protein diet. Kodi was ALWAYS on a single protein source, Ned it is one that still doesn't bother him. He really needed a limited ingredient diet so we could control for all ingedients more easily. We went with Nature's variety becaus eit's available in both canned and kibble formulas, which makes it easy when we need to chuck some kibble at them in a hurry.  The girls have been thriving on it too, even though they don't need a limited ingredient diet.


Karen, would you explain the difference between the Limited Ingredient food and a Single Protein Source food? I am unfamiliar with the latter term.


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## jill1034 (Feb 1, 2016)

Thank you all so much. He is feeling better for now, but still on meds and bland diet. Switching gradually to Nature's Variety limited diet lamb kibble. Funny, we haven't done kibble since he was 3 months old. How do I serve it? I bought some cans too, lamb flavor. I can top with the raw lamb once we see if he can tolerate it. He has never had lamb.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I always add water to Molly's kibble to moisten it before serving. It is a good idea to do this as you don't want your dog to get dehydrated. If your dog likes the canned food as a topper that is good too because it has a high moisture content.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Nature's variety has a nice feature on their website where you put in your dogs age, weight, and activity level along with which types of food you want to feed. They will calculate serving sizes for the kibble, canned or raw to give you an idea on quantities of each to feed per day.


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## jill1034 (Feb 1, 2016)

Molly120213 said:


> I always add water to Molly's kibble to moisten it before serving. It is a good idea to do this as you don't want your dog to get dehydrated. If your dog likes the canned food as a topper that is good too because it has a high moisture content.


Thanks. We were pre soaking the food when he was really little, is that neede or just add water before serving?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sheri said:


> Karen, would you explain the difference between the Limited Ingredient food and a Single Protein Source food? I am unfamiliar with the latter term.


A single protein food would be anything that has only one meat source in it... So JUST beef or JUST chicken... There are lots of those. THK is the perfect example of a food that can be made with whatever single protein source that you choose, but has an otherwise complicated ingredient list. That's fine for many dogs, especially if you know for certain that you only have to avoid a specific protein. For one like Kodi who was really struggling with food intolerance and other allergy symptoms, we needed to have as few ingredients as possible, so we could really get a handle on things. For two months, he ate JUST ground turkey and sweet potato. When it was clear that he was doing well on that, we needed to pick a nutritionally balanced limited ingredient diet for him.

A limited ingredient food has as few different ingredients as they can use and still produce a nutritionally balanced ration. There are certain carb sources (like corn and wheat) that are known to be problematic for many dogs, and these food tend to avoid those ingredients completely. Nature's Variety is what we ended up using, and since he does well on it, we haven't wanted to rock the boat.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jill1034 said:


> Thanks. We were pre soaking the food when he was really little, is that neede or just add water before serving?


You can just add water to it, as long as the dog doesn't just pick the kibble out.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

jill1034 said:


> Thanks. We were pre soaking the food when he was really little, is that neede or just add water before serving?


I just add the water and put the bowl down. Sometimes she gobbles it up as is and sometimes she eats it a lttle later after the water has soaked into the kibble.


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## Hanna (Feb 25, 2016)

Sorry about your dog situation right now, before my dog is a healthy dog she eat all the food that I gave to her without no trace in her bowl, until one time when I give her food she did not eat it. I don't know why, until, I see his poop looks like he have some symptoms of diarrhea and there's a spot of blood on his poop that's why I don't waste much time and go to my vet to ask this situation. And my vet find out that she have an uppset stomach or sensitive stomach, and my vet share some article about meals for sensitive stomach and it really help me a lot of information about that situation. Hope you can learn new things in this article why our dog have diarrhea.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

My friends Westie has had a major of tummy and allergy issues since it was a puppy. He has had every test possible. The only food he can eat is rabbit. She gets it from the vet. It's a meat I never see mentioned. I sure hope your little ones tummy issues resolve soon.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Diarrhea issues in young puppies: My pup can scarf up a plant seed pod, drywall crumb, bug, squashed rotting dead thingy, or anything that comes within his proximity.....I have to watch him like a hawk unless he is confined in his ex-pen, which is rarely. Potty walks outside have lessened to every four hours, but that means he has no fewer than 5 times a day to play hoover with the great outdoors. When they are young, they are much less discerning about icky things. I know, because I've pulled all sorts of things from his mouth that I didn't see on the ground but he did. They can snub or gobble their dog food, but regardless, will find something really gross and yummy and swallow it with you being none the wiser. Consider what you clean your floors with. Is anyone tracking in anything? Is any member of the family slipping in a "toxic raison, or chocolate?" Chicken from groceries is injected with chemicals to make it last longer in the store. I won't eat it any more.

Havanese also suffer from separation anxiety which will also cause stress on the digestive system.

IN ADDITION to vet visits, it would be advisable to pay really close attention to the puppy's environment and lifestyle. There is a list of toxic plants to dogs a mile long on the web. Some human food is toxic to dogs. If your pup gets so sick, off and on, then I would really question his day to day exposures especially if you aren't the only human around the pup.

Years ago my full grown Akita was fed shrimp by a visitor (unbeknownst to me), until I discovered liquid black tarry diarhea all over the new carpeting. The error was admitted, and fortunately my dog recovered, but I learned that a LOT of people are well-meaning, but ignorant about what dogs can eat.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Jill, I'm so glad things are getting better! It's no fun, that's for sure, when these little ones are under the weather.


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