# Sort of a Kirby update



## Kirby (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi everyone ~

A couple of weeks ago you were all so much help to me regarding Kirby's liver enzyme troubles. The reason I titled this post "sort of an update" is because it is exactly that. I have only totally changed his diet to not a completely low protein diet but to a middle of the road protein diet from the 38% protein food he was on when all this showed up. I had had him on that food for about 2 years now.

We went away on a trip and Kirby was fine the entire time(he stayed here with my son and his wife)...loving his new diet. He still is fine really...My gut feeling is that he's not 100% but everyone in my family says to wait...don't take him back to the vet and spend yet another $400.00 on more blood work and tests and give it at least 6 weeks on this new diet before re-testing. I emailed his vet to let her know of our plans and have not heard back. She just possibly may be upset with me for not taking her advice and getting a liver biopsy quite far away.

My question for all of you much smarter than me Havanese people is this....Am I doing the wrong thing here? Am I hurting my precious dog by trying something like this instead of moving on to invasive expensive procedures that may in the end prove to be a dietary problem? I'm getting to feel really guilty about all of this. Your help is so appreciated ~

Thanks so much ~

Reenie and Kirby


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I would want another blood test to see where those enzymes are now, at the very least. You don't want to make a mistake that could be costly to your little fur baby. He may, in fact, be getting better, but having confirmation would give you peace of mind, I would think. 

If you don't think he's 100%, I'd trust those instincts and have it checked out. Even if you're wrong, you'd know for sure he was headed in the right direction.


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## Kirby (Mar 7, 2011)

Thank you so very much for your good advice pjewel ~ I am taking him into the vet this morning for a checkup and another liver enzyme test. Everything you said in your post was not only exactly what I needed to hear, it was also what I was feeling too. Hopefully his enzymes will be better now and I will worry less! Reenie


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Good luck to Kirby and we are keeping our fingers and paws crossed that the tests come back with an improvement!


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## Kirby (Mar 7, 2011)

Thank you so much Laurie AND Lily, Lexi ,Logan, & Laila! What a group of absolutely darling Havanezers you have there!! So cute is that picture!

We are leaving for the vet's in about a half hour. I have made copies of the nutrient content of his new foods with pictures included....I'm doing my best to get all the info I can to his vet today. One problem though is that now I have changed his food to something that includes great veggies and fruits, he is back to "recycling", if you know what I mean, if I'm not standing right beside him to scoop it up before he gets to it.  What to do???

Anyway, I'll of course tell her about that and we will carry on. I'll keep you informed of the progress here today!

Reenie


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

ound:ound:ound: I Just love the word reycling!!!!! 
Laila sady is a recyler and the best thing to do is just be on top of them the second that they go --or any other dog goes and clean it up right away. 

I have trained her that the second she goes for it I yell "Leave it" and she runs to me for a treat. At least it keeps her from eating that and getting a healthier snack... 

Good luck today!


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## Kirby (Mar 7, 2011)

Just got home from the vet. She is wonderful ~ spent over a half hour just talking to me about it all and then did a very thorough exam on Kirby and then did blood work again. When I leave that office I always feel she is doing everything possible to make sure I am well informed about every single thing that could be going on and what we need to consider in the future etc. She just loves my little guy...I can tell and I am so glad I decided to go ahead and have him checked out again. She will phone me later today with the test results. Please pray that his enzymes have dropped.....She said that she won't do another bile acid at this time, as it definitely showed before that the liver isn't working properly for whatever reason. Eventually we will figure this all out. He had an exciting morning...came home and ate like a horse and is now sleeping by the fire....happy dog.

Thank you for your great support...don't know what I'd do without it!

Reenie


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## Kirby (Mar 7, 2011)

Laurie ~

We must have been posting at the same time! We talked about the recycling problem. His vet said that for some reason there are some foods that when "recycled" just smell and taste better to certain dogs the second time around.....oh my....

She said not to worry too much about it, as if he just has a bite now and then it won't hurt him. I've never tried the Leave it = treat idea before. Knowing Kirby...he'd eat the treat and promptly recycle it too!

She did set my mind at ease over that subject though. She said it's gross, but not to them and to not worry. Whew!


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## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

I hope you get the best possible results for Kirby and he is headed in the right direction. 

I have a "recycler" (lol!) on my hands too. The "leave it" and immediate cleanup is the only method that's been working but if that's my worst problem, we're doing OK. It's still gross though. When she does it and gets in trouble, she gives me kisses to try to make up for it. Double yuck!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Keeping my fingers crossed for good results from the blood test! I had problems in the past with Dugan and his ALT levels. I don't think they were as high as your little one's, but they were high. With a change in diet and a dose of Metrodonizole (sorry, not sure how to spell that), his numbers came back down. I feed him a moderately low protein diet now. No more high protein food for him. 

PS Dugan recycles. Even worse is when it comes back up. That is the worst!!!!


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## andra (Aug 23, 2010)

I will be praying that Kirby's blood levels show improvement and that he is on the road towards healing. I am glad you are feeling good about your vet; she sounds very competent and thorough.

Dionna is not a recycler but she is prone to wanting to put any little piece of lint, paper or other things in her mouth and we have mastered the "leave it" and "drop it" commands LOL. I sometimes have to repeat it many times especially if the item in question is ultra tempting--like today there was some paper outside and she kept gravitating towards it. :suspicious: We have some work to do on this so you are certainly not alone LOL.

I know my one hedgehog awhile ago became jaundiced and when he was checked at the vet, the blood tests showed abnormal liver levels and also kidney issues, which may have been due to dehydration. So they had me give 10 days of IM fluids (which was very stressful for me because I had to become a furbaby nurse) and also twice a day he gets this oral liquid medication for the liver that has milk thistle and lactolose; this is a forever medication. I know for humans with Hep. C and other liver issues, milk thistle is used. I do not know about dogs but I am assuming this may be used in some circumstances. I bring this up not to second guess your vet or to even give recommendations for your situation but I think it is nice to have information about these kinds of things just for FYI purposes.

Kirby is in good hands and we are all rooting for him! 

andra


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## Kirby (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, guess what! His vet just phoned and his level has dropped from 416 to 48! She is in a state of shock and said she is going to think this over for the entire weekend and figure out how this could have happened....She said that this doesn't change the fact that the bile acid test showed his numbers as being way off, but that there just has to be a reason that he would have an almost 400 point drop after I changed his diet completely...I'll keep you updated but for now we are ecstatic!


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## Kirby (Mar 7, 2011)

By the way...thank you again EVERYONE for your good wishes, prayers and great advice....I love this forum ~ don't know what I would do without all of you. Thank you thank you!!
Reenie and Kirby too


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Pipersmom said:


> I hope you get the best possible results for Kirby and he is headed in the right direction.
> 
> I have a "recycler" (lol!) on my hands too. The "leave it" and immediate cleanup is the only method that's been working but if that's my worst problem, we're doing OK. It's still gross though. When she does it and gets in trouble, she gives me kisses to try to make up for it. Double yuck!


 Hi I hope Kirby's test come back better. I know how hard it is to have a sick dog. I have a part time recycler and a kisser too! I always tell her to go kiss her Dad.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

What wonderful news. This made me GFETE. Give him an extra hug from me.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Reenie, 
That is good news - but I agree - awfully strange. It makes you wonder if one of the tests was an error. 
I am sure that she will figure it out, and she sure sounds like she is devoted and dedicated to helping you. What a nice feeling that must be!!!!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

That is great news!! Perhaps you do want to do a bile acid test again just to see what it says. It is not invasive and it might be reassuring to know that those numbers are now normal too. I hope this means that everything is okay.


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## Kirby (Mar 7, 2011)

I know....It is very strange. If there was a mistake, it would be yesterday's because the bile acid test was so abnormal and it was interpreted in a large city near here...not even the same place. I won't worry...I'll just wait. She said she would phone me this week and we will discuss all of this. She is just as intrigued as we all are. Kirby feels great....almost like he knows he had a great blood test result!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I just have to tell you that I love your picture of Kirby in your avatar. He is such a handsome guy!!!!


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## Kirby (Mar 7, 2011)

Awwww...Thank you so much Karen! Your babies are equally as beautiful. Aren't we lucky though?

Have a lovely Saturday ~

Reenie


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Hi, Reenie:

Just wondering if Kirby has continued with good liver enzyme numbers.


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## Kirby (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi!

We are away on holiday right now but wanted to answer. Kirby is doing MUCH better just from changing him from a high protein food. We will have his liver enzymes done again before having his teeth cleaned next month. 

I also need to answer the Hav mom who is having trouble with her pup with the same problems. I promise I will and very soon!

Thank you so much for asking about Kirby StarrLhasa~~

Reenie


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## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

Just read this and I am so glad! Nala also had abnormal liver tests a few years ago and with a change of diet and some meds (Densosal (sp), some liver cleansing herbs and some homepathic drops) they came back to normal. The lower protein and low fat really helped!

So glad it is helping with Kirby.

That is great.

Annie


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