# Puppy Gear Recommendations!



## wannabe (Feb 3, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

To pass the time as we wait for our puppy my daughter and I like to go shopping on the weekends for puppy stuff. I was just wondering what some of the recent puppy owners have found the most and least useful. So far we have a Sherpa bag, an expen, a few toys, and one bed. What size crate should I purchase? 
Thank you for your help and warm welcome!


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## Colinahavanese (Dec 31, 2007)

This is the one I bought. http://www.petguys.com/-027773005770.html It is nice because the doors swing both ways and there are two of them. Plus now they offer free ground shipping.


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## wannabe (Feb 3, 2008)

*Crate*

Thanks Kristine,

Do you attach the expen to the crate so the puppy has a place to rest and play or do you only use them seperately?


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

well i am trying to think......mmmm...one thing that I really liked doing was to buy a baby blanket like at the dollar store and sleep it with for a couple of weeks so that your scent will be on it then give it to your breeder if possible that way the puppy will be familiar with your scent. if i think of amything else i will let you know


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## Janet Zee (Mar 16, 2007)

I attached the crate to the ex-pen, and put the water & food bowls close to the crate and potty pad or litter as far from sleeping and dining area as possible. Good luck with your new puppy!!


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## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

A Puppia type-harness really DOES keep the matting down! Molly has been wearing one since the Pet Expo on the 9th, and she's really comfy! :whoo:


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## HayCarambaMama (Dec 8, 2007)

I like to get a cat collar with a bell -- so no "step on" accidents when they are tiny. Also a leash (small) and harness. I use pet taxi as a crate (plastic top) and LOVE it. I can move it around easily from room to room and car and my doggies just love, love their little dens. They also sell bedding just for pet taxis. I had the wire lifestages crate before and it just didn't work well for us at all.


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## Colinahavanese (Dec 31, 2007)

I usually put a blanket or towel over the wire crate to make it a dark homey den and attach it to the x-pen. In the x-pen I put their food, water, puppy pads and toys-to keep them entertained.


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

I like to make it like a little den too and do the same thing. A word of warning ...they are good jumpers so get a tall x-pen and make sure you dont put the crate in a position that the puppy can jump on top and jump out. Oh, puppy shopping, fun, fun, fun. Lots of chewies like nylabone type products and I dont like anything rawhide, I worry to much about blockages. Congratulations on your new puppy. Have fun!
~Brandy


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## Jacklyn Weeks (Dec 23, 2007)

I have the Midwest crate as well. One thing about the harnesses, make sure you have a mesh or soft material one as a rough one chaps under the arms and can be very painful for your little guys. I recommend the mesh Puppia ones.


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## SmittenHavaneseMommy (Feb 18, 2008)

Um, we washed our pillows and bed linen so that Kona could rub HIS scent all over it for US! :biggrin1: He's slept with us ever since he's been home. (that wasn't the plan btw...) Just sortof happened.  I think everyone said what I was going to.  What about cute little coats, and boots, and shoes and shirts and bows????? I LOVE SHOPPING!


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## wannabe (Feb 3, 2008)

*How high for an x-pen?*



brandy said:


> I like to make it like a little den too and do the same thing. A word of warning ...they are good jumpers so get a tall x-pen and make sure you dont put the crate in a position that the puppy can jump on top and jump out. Oh, puppy shopping, fun, fun, fun. Lots of chewies like nylabone type products and I dont like anything rawhide, I worry to much about blockages. Congratulations on your new puppy. Have fun!
> ~Brandy


I bought a 24 inch x-pen last weekend. Do you think that will be too short?


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## wannabe (Feb 3, 2008)

*What size harness*



Moko said:


> A Puppia type-harness really DOES keep the matting down! Molly has been wearing one since the Pet Expo on the 9th, and she's really comfy! :whoo:


Hi I was looking on the puppia web site and I was wondering what size harness to buy. They had a dog on there that was 13.5 lbs. that wore a medium. Do you think a small for a pup and a medium for later? The extra small was only 6-8" around the neck-seems very tiny even for a Hava pup.
What do you think?


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

wannabe said:


> Hi I was looking on the puppia web site and I was wondering what size harness to buy. They had a dog on there that was 13.5 lbs. that wore a medium. Do you think a small for a pup and a medium for later? The extra small was only 6-8" around the neck-seems very tiny even for a Hava pup.
> What do you think?


I used a small for Kubrick when he was a puppy (although I got him at 13 weeks) and a medium now. He is around 13lbs now.


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## Gracie's Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

It really just depends upon the puppy. I bought an extra small for Gracie and it still fits. The nicer harnesses with padding may never fit her. She will be 6 months on Tuesday. Her sister (same litter) is more than twice her size. So - you might have to wait to buy the harness or clothing. I bought Gracie a small jacket and she still can't wear it!!! She is 4 lbs. 6 oz. Each havanese is completely different - some will be big and some will be small. I know this doesn't help a whole lot, but sometimes it helps to have the puppy with you when you buy things like that.

Karen


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Karen, I know that Gracie is very small, but have you had her ALT liver enzyme levels checked? 4lb 6 oz is really tiny for 6 months and it's possible that she has a liver shunt. I don't want to scare you or anything, it's just that usually such a tiny Hav indicates some sort of liver problem and if she does have a shunt, it's better to know sooner rather than later.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Oliver and Comet both have medium puppia harnesses


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## Gracie's Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

Lina - I'll check when we go into the vet. She is going to get spayed on Thursday. I asked the vet a few times if there were any concerns of her size and she said absolutely not - she IS growing just not fast. They thought her rate of growth was fine because of her size. She has very tiny paws - I honestly think she was just built to be small, but it's probably worth asking again. Even very early on - her sister (Roxie) had much bigger paws, and I find that is a good way of figuring out how big they will actually get. They kind of grow into their paws.

Karen


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## Gracie's Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

Just checked our records. Gracie has gained nearly 6 oz in the past 3 weeks. I'm thinking she may have had a late start. She may very well catch up. I think liver shunt puppies don't grow much at all - is that right?

Karen


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Wannabe-Hope you have a camera!!!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I don't know, 6 oz doesn't seem like that much to me, but I could be wrong. Kubrick was gaining about 1.5lbs a month at that age. Dogs with liver shunts will continue to grow, if I'm not mistaken, just they won't grow much. I hope that Gracie really is just that small though!


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Even though she's a controversial person because of the Havana Silk Dog vs. Havanese controversy, I thought her book "The Havanese," by Diane Klumb was an awesome thing to have before I brought Posh home. 

I actually skipped all the health testing pages...which are a big part of the controversy. 

The rest of the book is really helpful. There is basically a "shopping list" for what you will need before you get your fur baby that's really wonderful and some other insightful information. It was well written too. 

Some things I have found so far to be really necessary are a good metal greyhound comb to work through all the layers of Posh's hair, solid gold jerky treats for training, a water bottle to hang from her crate (like the kind you see on rabbit cages), a little comfy pillow or bed in every area I hang out (by the computer, the bathroom, my bedroom...), my carrier as I take her lots of places, baby toothbrush and beef flavored toothpaste, goodie clips and latex little pony holders...

Kudos to you for planning ahead  This is obviously a great place for questions/information.

Posh is a tiny little Hav too. She was 5.6 pounds at six months when I got her. I had her spayed about two weeks after she came to live with us. I did a blood panel and her scores were totally normal (thank goodness.)! I think she's grown now, as she feels heavier in the carrier when I tote her around. Everyone in my family comments on how she has grown, but I don't think she'll ever be more than ten pounds...


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## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

wannabe said:


> Hi I was looking on the puppia web site and I was wondering what size harness to buy. They had a dog on there that was 13.5 lbs. that wore a medium. Do you think a small for a pup and a medium for later? The extra small was only 6-8" around the neck-seems very tiny even for a Hava pup.
> What do you think?


I ended up getting a Large for Molly, because when her long hair is in, she really e-x-p-a-n-d-s!

Since the Puppias seem to help keep down the matts, I figured a little larger than normal would be better since she'll wear that exclusively when her hair grows back.. Molly is 19 pounds, and with her puppy cut, a Medium is good (they're adjustable). So we're set for all her hair styles! (We did the same with her coats and sweaters...she has some Mediums and some Larges, depending on how much hair she has at the time!)

Molly also seems to not mind putting the Puppia on...she really doesn't like the traditional harness (which we also have in the two sizes!)...the Puppia is very soft and easy to put on!


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## Colinahavanese (Dec 31, 2007)

Yes, I think that is a great book too and has a lot of information.


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Karen--I don;t want to scare you, but I also would recommend you having Gracie's Bile Acids tested prior to being spayed. They do a fasting test and then feed them and redo the test. It will show if Gracie has any liver disease. Anesthesia can be toxic to a dog with liver disease because the liver metabolizes the anesthesia out of the blood. 

Roxie weighed 5# on her 6 month birthday. We had her tested last fall and as it turns out she has a mild form of MVD--tiny shunts within the liver. She didn't have symptoms--she was just a very slow grower. We have her on a lower protein diet now and she is thriving! She weighs 7# at 11 months. 

There are a couple threads on here about Liver Shunts and MVD.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Cheryl - thanks for the tip. I'll go look up the threads. How can you tell the difference between slow growth and from slow growing lines?


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

I am not an expert, but I would have to say that slow growing lines would have the siblings growing at equal rates and probably would still weigh atleast 6# at months. Karen mentioned that Grace's sister was a lot bigger. And when it was my dog, I just didn't want to take any chances--so we had the blood work.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Cheryl, her comment about Gracie's sister being twice her size already and her tiny size is what made me say something about a possible liver shunt.


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## Gracie's Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm just in awe of what is going on - I can't imagine a thing that could be wrong with her, but I do understand what you are both saying. I would hate to find out something is wrong. The vet said that it IS possible, but she is showing no other symptoms. She said the blood panel catches MOST problems, but there are definitely cases where they don't catch a liver shunt. (The blood panel she will get before her spay) The Bile Acid test would most certainly catch everything.

Gracie's sister (Roxie) is twice the size. But here is some other important information. . . The same mother and father have had 9 puppies together. Roxie is the biggest they have ever had. Gracie is the smallest. Kody, the boy of the litter is a bit bigger. I need to check in with her to see how they compare size wise, but the last I checked they were about 1 lb. difference. 

I appreciate all of your concerns. I'm just not sure what to think right now. My gut says that she is just a small puppy naturally. She has no neurological problems - in fact she is the brightest dog I've ever had. At 4.5 months she could ring the potty bell, sit, lay down, roll over, jump through a hula hoop (now can go through my arms), stand, shake, do high fives, etc. Never head pressing, seizures, drooling, spaciness. She definitely has her run like hell moments - but that is normal for a Hav. She eats well, RARELY throws up (a couple of times since we've had her). Wouldn't a dog with a medical issue look somewhat malnourished? She is perfectly proportioned. I guess I'm in denial that it could happen. I will keep you posted. Honestly - I appreciate your concerns - I can't imagine what I would ever do without her!! I would kill me to think something is wrong with her.

Karen


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Karen, a liver shunt many times do not show any other symptoms except for a smaller size until it's too late. Most Havs I know that had liver shunts acted completely normal! They are just as playful and intelligent as any other Hav. I know that you don't want to think that there is something wrong with Gracie, but if I were you, I would still do the Bile Acids test and see if there is something wrong, as it's something that can be fixed by surgery or diet if you catch it early enough. Otherwise, it can get worse. The blood panel can show a liver shunt but it also can not show it. A lot of people I know with dogs that had liver shunts didn't find out about it until they did the Bile Acid test (their blood panel was great).

Again, I'm really not trying to scare you, I just am concerned about Gracie and hope that you will give her the test if only for peace of mind. If there's nothing wrong, that is wonderful, but if there is either a low protein diet or surgery could really help her live a full and long life. :hug:


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Gracie might be fine! Roxie exhibited none of the symptoms that are mentioned with Liver Shunt, but she still had abnormal Bile acids and turned out to have MVD. The advantage of doing the preliminary work was that she could have her liver biopsy at the same time as being spayed without doing a separate surgery. Now I at least have the advantage of knowing and doing a little work with her diet to keep her healthy.

I recognise that other people might not make the same decisions that I did, but I would have felt horrible to not give you the information that I had.


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

By the way, Roxie's blood panel was perfect! With the bile acids, they do a fasting level (hers was normal) and then feed her and retest her (this is when she was elevated.) Her spot tests before this and after were all normal.


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## Gracie's Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

Cheryl - I've never heard of MVD. What is it?

Karen


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Karen, I too got concerned when I read about little Miss Gracie's weight. I think your best bet is to do a bile acid test. Keeping my fingers crossed big times that everything will turn out well!!!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Microvascular Dysplasia also goes by other names. Here is some info: http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/Hea...malTopics/HMD/

A liver shunt is a vessel that bypasses the liver. 
When the pup is in utero, this is how the blood is cleared by the mother's liver, but after birth it is supposed to close. Although this condition is more severe it is correctable by surgery (often the same time the dog is spayed.)

MVD is little shunts throughout the liver--not correctable by surgery and must be medically managed according to the severity.

It is believed that both are heriditary. Roxie and her mom plan on subimitting their DNA to help in the research of this subject.

FYI--My breeder has been super supportive of me and Roxie through this.


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## Gracie's Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

Cheryl - I can't get to the link you mentioned.

Also, since the breed "standard" is 7 - 13 lbs . . . what should the weight of a 7 lb. fully grown havanese be at 6 months of age? It would be an interesting thing to find out.

Karen


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Karen, there is no weight mentioned in our breed standard. The weights vary quite a bit in a typical six month old Havanese. Some vary in size while others vary in bone mass.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2008)

Yes, it is true that the breed doesn't have a breed standard for weight via AKC regulations. But it is sort of interesting that all dog info online on this breed states a weight of 7-13 lbs. (*excluding the AKC, etc.) I did see a site that stated 9-14 lbs. Makes you wonder if the AKC will ever limit this 'toys' weight in the future.

When someone reads that information online and expects a small 'toteable' dog to take everywhere in arms/bag, it can be contridicting to the owner who now has to leave the dog at home more...because she can't tote around a 18 lb havanese on her shoulder. 

Maybe those breed definition/characterstic websites need to add more variance of the weight ratio. Like saying under 20 lbs with most in the range of 10 -16 lbs. The web can be misleading to prospective Havanese owners we are looking for a small weighted dog.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Kristy, I think part of the misperception is when people think Havanese are arm-carrying dogs. They are sturdy and meant to walk on their own feet, not be purse dogs. (I'm not saying that is what you are advocating, but I just think that people haven't done their homework if they think they are going to be "toting around" a Havanese on their arm or leaving it at home if it is too big to do so.

AKC used to have weights listed in the standard, but they were removed. We've moved _*away from *_weights. And since the parent club (The Havanese Club of America) is the one that decides the standard, AKC won't do any limiting. We are limited by size, meaning height, not weight. In addition, there will still be puppies that are oversize and some that are undersize. The size is meant for conformation purposes, which _should be _the standard for choosing breeding dogs too, but I'm heading off on a tangent now...


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Let's try the site again: http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/He...?ID=3663&blnShowBack=False&idContentType=1251 (This darn vista system changes all the rules).

Regarding weight: Although Roxie weighs 7# now and would be included in those standards that are mentioned, she still has MVD. If all people had their Havs bile acids checked we would be able to build a data base and determine the significance of elevated results.


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2008)

Yes Kimberly,

I am not trying to advocate a small carrying dog. What I was saying is that the web is misleading for those searching the havanese on size alone, as the web is mostly stating that it is on average a small weighted dog. Most sites are stating 7-13. I guess I was just saying ( I think I said it in my last paragraph...) that it would be more realistic for the characteristics of the dogs weight be stated "most are under 20 lbs with and median of 10-16. This is for classification of weights only. 

I didn't mention height, as I was well aware of the regulations for breed standard, just stating that even though there isn't a weight variance standard through the Havanese Club, the world wide web sites are stating one. 

I remember picking up my 12 lb yorkie quickly if I needed to, carrying her into the vet, etc...there is difference compared to a 20 pounder.

I guess, I don't know what I am trying to defend here, just stating the web is relaying an 'average' weight, and that is where people are getting these 'weight averages/standard'. It has nothing to do with the Havanese Club of America, as yes, there is no standard. But if you look up other sites for information on the Havanese, those 'weight standards/averages' are all over the place.

Believe me, I carry around my youngest enough. I am not advocating a purse dog. I have my son, diaper bag, and purse...that is enough for me! :biggrin1: I need a pooch that can walk his own.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

When you say "the web", which sites are you talking about? Are they from reputable breeders or are they just generic breed web sites?


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2008)

Most are just general dog breed websites with info on all sorts of dogs. Though I have seen some breeders almost "copy and paste" the same info. I didn't look into whether they were reputable or not, as I wasn't buying from them anyways. Just looking at pictures and stuff. 

To be honest, this is where people go to search out dog breeds that are right for their family...so the first thing people see is this 'cut and paste' information. Until they get to a reputable breeder for more information, this is what is geared in their head. 

I first found out about the Havanese through one if the dog breed sites and was thrilled that a small dog could be a great family companion...so my search got broader, breeders got involved, and my knowledge of them expanded. Never heard of them before the "dog quiz" on what I was looking for in a dog.

There are dog quizes out there, how to find the perfect one for your family, toy dogs, small dogs, good with kid dogs, the web is huge for information, but it seems that most is the same for 'generic sites'. 7 -13 lbs.

New potential buyers need to do all their homework and find a reputable breeder. They can set the records straight on what they read vs. true Havanese characterstics. And yes, I know, weight prediction cannot be gauranteed. There is always small size and larger sized dogs in every litter.


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