# I think I'm turning Havanese. I think I'm turning Havanese. I really think so!



## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Okay, I actually KNOW I am. 

I've been lurking your forum for a little while and just started posting in the last couple of days. I am so glad I found you all as you are just a wealth of wonderful information and wonderful pix!

My husband and I live in NYC and are getting a male Havanese puppy early next year (Jan/Feb). It will be my first do and I am so excited I can hardly stand it! The only way I'm making it through is reading up on "how to" and getting my pix fix here!

I have a couple questions that I'm hoping you can help me with.

1. How soon do you contact your breeder to let him/her know that you are interested in adopting a puppy? I contacted Prairiwind and Linda said it was too early and she didn't know what she would have and to contact her in December. Between gestation, the 8-week waiting period and waiting lists, I thought I'd be contacting her earlier rather than later.

2. I am looking for a smaller dog (no larger than 12lbs) so he can fly with us in-cabin when we travel to Ohio a few times a year to visit family. Do you have any recommendations for good, reputable breeders either in the New York area (or drivable distance) or within an a hour or two from Cleveland? We are happy to go anywhere to pick up our dog but want the journey to be as easy on him as possible.​
I know breeders have been discussed a lot here, but I was unable to find a definitive thread devoted to which ones the forum members have used. If I overlooked it, please fee free to redirect me.

I will definitely have a ton more questions over my journey, but I don't want to overload you all! I'm so glad to be here and am excited to join your wonderful community.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

There is a breeder on this forum that lives in New Jersey. My mind went blank regarding her name - can anyone help here??


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

jetsetgo! said:


> 2. I am looking for a smaller dog (no larger than 12lbs) so he can fly with us in-cabin when we travel to Ohio a few times a year to visit family.


With such a specific criteria, you may want to consider another breed or be willing to wait a long time for a breeder to have an unusually small Havanese. There are a lot of male Havanese that do not reach 12 pounds, but a breeder can't predict that with certainty unless they are intentionally breeding small dogs for the sake of having small pups. Many males are 12 pounds and over.


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you for your replies. 

Kathie, are you thinking of Wyndward in Bayonne? I did find something about her here.

Kimberly, I do see that many Havanese seem to be larger per the weight threads. In reading about the breed, I found the breed listed in the 8-13lb range. Is that a mislead?


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

^ I agree with Kimberly.

If you're looking for a dog that can fly with you, it doesn't need to be under 12 lbs. All major US airlines allow dog + carrying case to be 20 lbs. I have never once had my carrier and dog weighed. In my experience, height is more of an issue for taking a dog on an airplane versus weight. If their legs are too long, they can't stand up and turn around in their carrier, making the trip uncomfortable for them! The flight from NY to Cleveland is not very long, pup will probably sleep most of the time.

You could always look for the smallest in the litter. Roscoe was the smallest boy in his litter - 2.5 lbs at 8 weeks and now 10 lbs 6 oz at 10 months. We didn't choose him for this reason, though, it just sort of worked out that way. He has only gained a pound in the last 4 months...half of that is probably his fluff! LOL


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

jetsetgo! said:


> Kimberly, I do see that many Havanese seem to be larger per the weight threads. In reading about the breed, I found the breed listed in the 8-13lb range. Is that a mislead?


Usually show dogs are in this weight range, but there is actually no standard for weight! I have heard of Havs anywhere from 5 lbs to 25 lbs. Some breeders purposely breed them a bit bigger, some smaller. You want to stay away from the breeders who purposely go TOO small (under 8 lbs) because it's not healthy. Havanese are not MEANT to be this size, and they can have a lot of health problems associated with being so small (liver shunts, for example).


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes, Wynward is what I was thinking of. Of course, Abby is a female and at 3 yrs. she is just finally topping out at eight pounds. I have noticed that a lot of the dogs on this forum are heavier than the standard or right at the top of it. I just waited until I could find a puppy that shouldn't get over eight pounds and that is what I got. She was eight months old when we got her so I guess by then the breeder was pretty sure of what her weight would be. Good luck at finding what you want!


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Thanks, Galaxie! 
No, I wouldn't want to go too small either. One of the reasons we love the Havanese is for their sturdiness.  
Thanks for the tip about show dogs vs. pet. That makes sense. We are not set on our dog being under 12lbs. I really didn't state that right above. We're just using it as a ballpark for top weight. It just makes for more options in the portability area. Obviously if our baby grew to be bigger we would love him just the same - just more to squeeze! Ha!

All of your babies are adorable, btw!


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you, Kathie! May I ask which breeder you went with?


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

We are so excited for you! Welcome to the Forum! Raising a new puppy is a JOB! It is just like having a newborn baby which grows into the toddler stage, then suddenly a teenager. Get ready....January/February will be here before you know it!


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

I found a breeder in NY after I got Gizmo that is in Queens New York. He is Jeff's Havanese. He is findable on google. Not sure if he is "reputable" but maybe someone here can help clarify that  If I ever got a second puppy I wanted to see about lookinh in to him because I called him with a couple of questions after getting Gizmo and he was very helpful even though I didn't get her from him and I offered to pay for help but he said no worries


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Gizmo'sMom said:


> I found a breeder in NY after I got Gizmo that is in Queens New York. He is Jeff's Havanese. He is findable on google. Not sure if he is "reputable" but maybe someone here can help clarify that  If I ever got a second puppy I wanted to see about lookinh in to him because I called him with a couple of questions after getting Gizmo and he was very helpful even though I didn't get her from him and I offered to pay for help but he said no worries


I'm going to say no.

His website has absolutely no information about health testing, and his "champions" are APRI champions...which means absolutely nothing to me. The AKC is the premier kennel club in the US - when an American breeder advertises its dogs as being from "champion bloodlines", they are speaking of AKC champions. I think advertising your dogs as "champions" when they're not AKC (or CKC in Canada, etc) is very misleading.

Also, his prices are listed beside every dog, which is something I have never seen a reputable breeder do. And his prices are OUTRAGEOUS! $2500 for a dog that does not have *actual* champion bloodlines is highway robbery.

I'm sure he's a nice enough guy, but to me he screams BYB who is just looking for money! The reason that Havanese from reputable breeders are so expensive is because of all the costs involved with showing their breeding dogs to their championships. It's extremely expensive when you consider training, handlers, travel, show fees, etc. Then, when they are ready to breed, there is the cost of health testing, veterinary expenses, and so forth. If you're not showing and you're not health testing, then you are making a KILLING off each pup if you're charging $2500 each!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

This Forum has lots of valuable information and opinions on lots of things. Use the "search" button up higher on the home page and enter in the words you are researching. Here is a previous thread on Jeff's Havanese.

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=6008&highlight=Jeff%27s+havanese


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you, *HavaneseSoon*! 
It's hilarious, but I do kind of feel like I'm "expecting" reggers: 
I know it's gong to be a major life changer and I'm am ready!

*Sheri*, got it! I have been using the Search for lots and it's been very helpful.

Thanks, *GizmosMom* and *Galaxie* for your help!


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

galaxie said:


> I'm going to say no.
> 
> His website has absolutely no information about health testing, and his "champions" are APRI champions...which means absolutely nothing to me. The AKC is the premier kennel club in the US - when an American breeder advertises its dogs as being from "champion bloodlines", they are speaking of AKC champions. I think advertising your dogs as "champions" when they're not AKC (or CKC in Canada, etc) is very misleading.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your help with that! I never know what to look for, but was wondering about that one 

Hopefully when I am ready to have MHS I will be better at it, or just keep asking here LOL!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Gizmo'sMom said:


> I found a breeder in NY after I got Gizmo that is in Queens New York. He is Jeff's Havanese. He is findable on google. Not sure if he is "reputable" but maybe someone here can help clarify that


My trainer friend who helped me pick my breeder and puppy also warned me away from Jeff.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Gizmo'sMom said:


> Thanks for your help with that! I never know what to look for, but was wondering about that one
> 
> Hopefully when I am ready to have MHS I will be better at it, or just keep asking here LOL!


We'll be here to help you when the time comes!!!!


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

The breeder I used is no longer in business. I'm not sure what happened there but I do know she was helpful "before" I got Abby but not at all "after"!

I thought I remembered there were some questions about Jeff. Finding a reputable breeder can take a little work!

With a little work and persistence on your part, I know that you will find the perfect puppy for you! If you don't have your heart set on a brand new puppy there are always rescues available from HRI. You should be in a good area to find one, too. A forum member recently adopting a Havanese puppy that was found wandering the streets of Brooklyn!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

You can go to the website for Havanese Club of America to get a list of breeders as a start. Just because they're members doesn't mean they're reputable though so you still have to do some detective work. :spy:


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you, *Scooter's Family, Kathie* and *Krandall*!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

jetsetgo! said:


> We are not set on our dog being under 12lbs. I really didn't state that right above. We're just using it as a ballpark for top weight. It just makes for more options in the portability area. Obviously if our baby grew to be bigger we would love him just the same - just more to squeeze!


Okay, that makes total sense! When you listed it as a bullet point in that format, it came across that it was a definite criteria.

To answer your specific question on when you should let the breeder know, I'd say now! Many take applications, so see if you can fill one out right away. Then, stay in communication. Find out which adults are being bred and see if you can get any information about the temperaments of the parents, verify the health testing (OFFA.org) and ask about the size of the parents _and_ the grandparents.

Best wishes on your quest. It will feel like a long journey, but it will go faster than you realize and worth the wait.



Kathie said:


> I have noticed that a lot of the dogs on this forum are heavier than the standard or right at the top of it.


There is *no *"standard" for weight in our breed, Kathie.


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you so much, Kimberly. I thought it made sense to start now! I've already found so many great leads on this site so I can continue to build my contacts. Knowing the sizes of the parents _and grandparents_ makes a lot of sense! Thanks for the tip.


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## michi715 (Apr 8, 2008)

We are in NYC so please let us know when you get your pup...we LOVE playdates!!!

Anyhow, we got both our pups from very reputable breeders in NJ. One is Wynward, which was mentioned earlier. Farah is on the forum and you can contact her. They are wonderful and produce AMAZING dogs! If you look at my thread "guess who got a sister", you will see Paisley (our new addition) is from Wynward. The other is Faireland havanese and the breeder's name is Candi. Our first Havanese, Guapo is one of her pups. She definitely only has 1 litter of Havanese a year, and I've noticed a trend that they are generally born in the spring, but you can contact her and put in an application. Then she will let you know when she has a litter and you can decide then if you want one. Again, I would HIGHLY recommend either of these breeders.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions about them.


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Wow! Thank you, *Michi*! I sent Farah an email yesterday. I will look into your other recommendation, too. Springtime is fine for us. We want to get our baby as soon as possible once we get moved into our new place, but we are willing to wait if need be.

We definitely will want to have a play date with you! Your babies are too cute - including the nearly hairless one in your signature! Hehehehe!


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## michi715 (Apr 8, 2008)

I should've also mentioned that while I don't think either breeder specifically tries to breed smaller Havs, our Havs are 8 lbs and 9lbs at their full-grown adult weight. Guapo was the smallest of his litter, but his brothers were about 11 lbs.


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

My vet thinks Giz may hit 10, she is currently 8 ibs


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

michi715 said:


> Anyhow, we got both our pups from very reputable breeders in NJ. One is Wynward, which was mentioned earlier. Farah is on the forum and you can contact her...
> 
> The other is Faireland havanese and the breeder's name is Candi.


Two excellent referrals!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jetsetgo! said:


> Thank you so much, Kimberly. I thought it made sense to start now! I've already found so many great leads on this site so I can continue to build my contacts. Knowing the sizes of the parents _and grandparents_ makes a lot of sense! Thanks for the tip.


That certainly would help, but isn't a sure bet. Kodi's parents are 11 and 12 lbs. He has one slightly bigger grandparent, but he wasn't close to Kodi's size. I ended up with the "giant economy" Hav tipping the scales at 17 lbs, and 11 1/4" tall. Of course, I didn't really care as I had no plans to fly with him. (other than bringing him home as a puppy) I think I'd need a shoe horn to get him into an under-seat carrier now!<g>

It might also be helpful to know if that pair has been bred before, and what size their pups were as adults, if that info is available.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Nothing is a sure bet when you're dealing with genetics unless you have a genetic test for it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Havtahava said:


> Nothing is a sure bet when you're dealing with genetics unless you have a genetic test for it.


And, with size, I'd suspect there's more than just genetics that go into it too.


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Gizmo'sMom said:


> My vet thinks Giz may hit 10, she is currently 8 ibs


And oh boy, is she a cutie!!!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Congrats and way to learn about everything ahead of time! I also think if you want a medium size Havanese (I did as well) then you can find it. While I wouldn't recommend searching for a tiny hav, I didn't want a 20lb Hav as I have a 5lb maltese and wanted her to have a chance to beat them up. I have one 10lb Hav and one 11.5lb Hav.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

There are many terrific breeders that are members right here on the Forum and of course lots that aren't. I would try to not limit myself to someone that is physically close but instead choose based on the quality of the breeder along with how comfortable you feel communicating with them. IMHO this is priceless and will be remembered long after the plane fare has been paid for.

I have two Hav's and helped a friend get one. The first one was never any help after I actually got Cooper, on the other hand, Janet Hicks with Janizona Havanese who I got the other two from is available at _any _time to help with _any _question and I know she sincerely cares about each and every puppy that she brings into the world.

I think it's terrific that you are starting now to investigate and it's a great idea to actually speak with the breeders to see for yourself what kind of a feeling you get for them.
Best of luck, with the attitude you have, I know you will find the perfect puppy for you! You will have lots of opportunities for puppy playdates once you get your puppy too!

Welcome to the Forum and to life with Hav's!

Beverly


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you so much, *Ama* & *Beverly*!


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Oh! and BTW, thank you so much for reminding me of that song! I LOVED that song and haven't thought of it in years!

Beverly


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Ahahahah! I'm so glad you recognized the title. After I posted I wondered if I just sounded crazy.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I keep trying to _ignore _the song since someone clued me into what the meaning was! LOL I almost didn't even click on your thread because of the title.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I haven't been around a lot lately so I missed this thread. It certainly sounds like you're doing your homework. I'm sure you'll find the perfect puppy for your family when the time is right. Whichever one it turns out to be, you'll love him no matter what size he turns out to be.


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## barbarak (Jul 27, 2009)

Havtahava said:


> I keep trying to _ignore _the song since someone clued me into what the meaning was! LOL I almost didn't even click on your thread because of the title.


I had to look up the meaning of the song, Kimberly! :redface:

You can't start too early looking for the breeder. A lot of great breeders only have puppies once a year. That was the case with mine (although she had two this year!) and she was the only breeder I had applied with. A year later I got my puppy! It was okay with me because I had a very old dog, an American Eskimo, when I applied and I didn't want to bring in a new pup while I had one with doggie dementia. Lacey died in January (she would have turned seventeen years old in March). Huggie was born on 3/3 and I was very ready for him to fill the quiet space Lacey had left in my home and my life. I had lots of time to research the Havs and learn everything I could here. I've logged a lot of hours reading forum posts and really picked up a lot of great information.

I know you'll be happy with your Hav, no matter what he ends up weighing. They're the best! It looks like you've already got some good recommendations and are well on your way to getting your future pup!


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you for your sweetness, *pjewel* and for sharing your story and kind words, *babarak*.

Now I'm more confused than ever why Prairiwind told me it was "Way too early" and she had "no idea what she would have" and to "call back in December"! Either way, it doesn't really matter. I've been finding some great recommendations here to follow. I appreciate all of your help and guidance.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

krandall said:


> That certainly would help, but isn't a sure bet. Kodi's parents are 11 and 12 lbs. He has one slightly bigger grandparent, but he wasn't close to Kodi's size. I ended up with the "giant economy" Hav tipping the scales at 17 lbs, and 11 1/4" tall. Of course, I didn't really care as I had no plans to fly with him. (other than bringing him home as a puppy) I think I'd need a shoe horn to get him into an under-seat carrier now!<g>
> 
> It might also be helpful to know if that pair has been bred before, and what size their pups were as adults, if that info is available.


Aww Karen, I wouldn't say he is "giant economy" size! My guys are 16.5 and 15.5. I call it perfect size! There's just more than you planned on and what could be better than that?


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

krandall said:


> And, with size, I'd suspect there's more than just genetics that go into it too.


Like Grandparents and a treat bag


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Gizmo'sMom said:


> Like Grandparents and a treat bag


Hahahaha! :laugh:


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

jetsetgo! said:


> Thank you for your sweetness, *pjewel* and for sharing your story and kind words, *babarak*.
> 
> Now I'm more confused than ever why Prairiwind told me it was "Way too early" and she had "no idea what she would have" and to "call back in December"! Either way, it doesn't really matter. I've been finding some great recommendations here to follow. I appreciate all of your help and guidance.


I got all three of mine from Linda. I didn't have any lead time with any of the last two. With Milo, she adored him and was planning to keep him to show. It was only his undescended testicle that gave me the opportunity to get him at 5 1/2 months old. With Bailey and Ruby, when I was ready, or probably more accurately when they both found me (I saw and fell in love with each one at first sight), they were available.

I adore my guys. Well, with Ms. Tuesday it's probably conditional right now since she has ruined one and a half camcorders (brand new), my Dyson, many shoes, important papers (she reaches into my handbag and pulls out goodies) and many other things I'm probably blocking out. She's a :evil:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

good buddy said:


> Aww Karen, I wouldn't say he is "giant economy" size! My guys are 16.5 and 15.5. I call it perfect size! There's just more than you planned on and what could be better than that?


Oh, I'm not complaining... He was a big puppy, so we suspected he was going to be on the large side. As far as I'm concerned, it's just more fluff to hug! I wouldn't change a hair on his head!<g>


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Gizmo'sMom said:


> Like Grandparents and a treat bag


:laugh::laugh::laugh: Well, there's that too, but Kodi isn't the least bit over weight. He's just a big guy.

I was just thinking, there's the mom's gestational nutrition and health, the pup's nutrition and health, etc. I don't know if this is a factor with dogs, but I know it is with horses; you often get a smaller foal (even when it is mature) when you breed a large stallion to a small mare than the reverse. So I wonder what influence a crowded uterus or a small bitch have on pup size.

Since I have absolutely NO experience breeding dogs, I'm just guessing at all of this based on my experience with other critters, but I suspect that size is not ENTIRELY genetics.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

pjewel said:


> I adore my guys. Well, with Ms. Tuesday it's probably conditional right now since she has ruined one and a half camcorders (brand new), my Dyson, many shoes, important papers (she reaches into my handbag and pulls out goodies) and many other things I'm probably blocking out. She's a :evil:


Beware red-headed children!


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

pjewel said:


> I got all three of mine from Linda. I didn't have any lead time with any of the last two. With Milo, she adored him and was planning to keep him to show. It was only his undescended testicle that gave me the opportunity to get him at 5 1/2 months old. With Bailey and Ruby, when I was ready, or probably more accurately when they both found me (I saw and fell in love with each one at first sight), they were available.
> 
> I adore my guys. Well, with Ms. Tuesday it's probably conditional right now since she has ruined one and a half camcorders (brand new), my Dyson, many shoes, important papers (she reaches into my handbag and pulls out goodies) and many other things I'm probably blocking out. She's a :evil:


This is great to know! I will keep contact with her then. Thank you.

As for your things...oy vey. I have a beloved shoe collection (my other obsession) that I'm a little concerned about. I keep them in their boxes, but doggies have their ways!


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

good buddy said:


> Hahahaha! :laugh:


First time they watched her my parents "confused" the treat bag and the food bag....yup she ate the WHOLE thing in less then 20 seconds eace:

No wonder she loves going over there! :laugh:


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Ahahahhahahaa!!!! I hope she was okay!


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## Janizona (Oct 17, 2006)

BeverlyA said:


> There are many terrific breeders that are members right here on the Forum and of course lots that aren't. I would try to not limit myself to someone that is physically close but instead choose based on the quality of the breeder along with how comfortable you feel communicating with them. IMHO this is priceless and will be remembered long after the plane fare has been paid for.
> 
> I have two Hav's and helped a friend get one. The first one was never any help after I actually got Cooper, on the other hand, Janet Hicks with Janizona Havanese who I got the other two from is available at _any _time to help with _any _question and I know she sincerely cares about each and every puppy that she brings into the world.
> 
> Beverly


Awww, thanks honey bunches! So thats why Juliet called me! :ear:

.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

jetsetgo! said:


> This is great to know! I will keep contact with her then. Thank you.
> 
> As for your things...oy vey. I have a beloved shoe collection (my other obsession) that I'm a little concerned about. I keep them in their boxes, but doggies have their ways!


Oh, and Ruby ate some wallpaper off the wall, chewed a small hole in the carpet and more . . . let me think. *None of the others ever did any of those things . . . ever! * Yes, I think I have to agree, beware of redheaded children. And then there's that quote -- "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it." :brick:


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Janizona said:


> Awww, thanks honey bunches! So thats why Juliet called me! :ear:
> 
> .


:hug:



pjewel said:


> Oh, and Ruby ate some wallpaper off the wall, chewed a small hole in the carpet and more . . . let me think. *None of the others ever did any of those things . . . ever! * Yes, I think I have to agree, beware of redheaded children. And then there's that quote -- "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it." :brick:


:fear:


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

jetsetgo! said:


> Ahahahhahahaa!!!! I hope she was okay!


She was EXSTATIC!!


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