# PLEASE tell me the poop eating will end!!!!



## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

I am beyond frustrated! Finley is 16 weeks old and still eats his poop every chance he gets. Yes, I realize it's not going to hurt him, but it's so gross and bothers me so much. I pick up his poop as soon as I see him doing it, but I can not have eyes on him every second of every day. I left the room for 5 minutes to go text a friend, and when I came back, he was eating his poop in his ex-pen. My days revolve around his bowel movements and trying not to leave the house until I think he's empty, which clearly isn't working anyway.

He's currently eating Fromm's Heartland Gold puppy, which I think is a high quality kibble. I've tried giving him ProSense Poop Eater Solutions and GNC Pets Stool-No. I've tried pineapple juice, pineapple bits, pumpkin, Adolph's Meat Tenderizer (though I couldn't think of a way to sprinkle it on his kibble and had him lick it off my hand, which was unsuccessful). I've tried the "Leave It" command every time he goes poop with a treat afterward. That works great when I'm around but can't do that when I'm not there. I've tried hot sauce on his poop, but again, doesn't work if I'm not home.

Finley gets plenty of exercise and would be the perfect little dog if he just didn't eat his poop!!!! He's very food motivated, so I wonder if that makes him more predisposed to coprophagia. I'm thinking of changing his food to see if that will help. Any suggestions?

Please, please, PLEEEEASE tell me this is just a puppy thing and he will outgrow it! (And if so, when????) I am just so disheartened and frustrated.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

We acquired Ricky at 9 months old. He was a poop eater. It was disgusting! It took us about 6 months to get him to knock it off. You see, despite what the breeder assured us, Ricky was not house broken at 9 months. It took us 6 months to break him because we were such rank amateurs. It was our fault, not Ricky's. Here is what we did and it may (or may not) work for you.

We started immediately to take Ricky outside to potty/poop every 30 minutes (that is not a typo) We let him out for 5 minutes max and if he just wanted to play, it was back into the house. If we were successful, he got lavish praise and a healthy treat and we picked his stool up immediately and disposed of it in a closed container. Once we had a few successes (a couple of weeks) we decreased the frequency to once an hour. More successes and the interval was decreased to every two hours, then four, and today it is five or six hours. He is 100% reliable now and even tells us when he wants to go outside and we always go with him to pick up the leftovers.

We started practicing the "leave it" command immediately. We practiced several times a day with something other than poop (perhaps a favorite toy). He got a lot of treats when he complied. After practicing this about 500 times over 6 months, he started to understand what we wanted of him. Today, I still carry treats in my pocket to reward him when he complies with the leave it command. He still likes to clean up spilled food, fruit that has fallen, and dog knows what else! I discourage that with the leave it command.

We learned his elimination schedule and kept him on that schedule. Every dog is different but Ricky's poop schedule is about 1 hour after he gets up in the morning, around lunch time, and then around 7 in the evening. He poops anywhere from 2 to 4 times a day.

All of this is a lot of work in the beginning but it pays off in the long run. Ricky no longer shows any interest in eating poop and hasn't for over 3 years now. You can do it too.

Ricky's Popi


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

Thank you so much, Ricky's Popi, for letting me know what you did with Ricky. I feel better knowing that you broke him of that habit starting at 9 months old. There is still hope for my little Finley!

I am trying to use the indoor potty method that many people on this forum advocate. It has been working out well for us so far, and I don't want to screw it up. He's not completely house trained yet, but if the ex-pen is set up in a small L-shape, Finley will seek out the potty on his own to do his business (both pee and poop). The problem is if he's ever left alone and poops, he is treated to a delicious delicacy of fecal matter.

I wonder if I can get a puppy to poop on command? Maybe I'll try using your method, but improvised. When I think it's time for him to poop, take him to his ex-pen with potty and use a "go poop" command? He already pees on command. Do you think it's possible with poop, too?


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

My Shadow was a poop eater when I got him @ 10 months old. He had lived with the breeder almost all of his life with her 10 dogs. He would eat the poop as it came out of his little, cute bum before it hit the ground.
My vet suggested Forbid. Don't know how it compares to what you've tried. It sort of deterred him but not really. A few things happened at this time and something worked but the poop eating has stopped.
1. He had tapeworm. Did the treatment.
2. Switched him to a different food.
3. Took him in to be groomed. My groomer said his glands were so full, she couldn't believe it.

Now it is over a year later and I noticed that he was paying too much attention to his rear area. Went to the groomer and his glands needed to be emptied. 
I don't know if anything I did would help you but there it is, our Poop Eating Saga! Somehow it is nice to know that I was not alone with my disgust!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

here's the scoop on poop. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/dog-spies/okay-so-some-dogs-eat-poop/

I think part of the problem is that he may have started this and you weren't there to pick it up promptly and he decided to eatbiit. You haven't told us enough of his eating habits and when and where he eliminates on a regular basis. Here is some info on this.

https://www.dogstardaily.com/training/errorless-housetraining


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

That was an interesting article. A couple points that were made are true of my Shadow. He is a greedy eater. He likes to scarf his food down. And he was definitely part of a 10 dog household prior to me getting him. I know that the breeder was a fan of litter box training so with 10 dogs pooping, there was always a supply!

I am only sooo happy that I was able to put an end to this behavior quickly. It took about 2 weeks for it to end.


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

Thanks for sharing the article, Dave. Finley is definitely a "greedy eater" and is VERY food-motivated. It doesn't help that he's a puppy and puts absolutely everything in his mouth.



davetgabby said:


> I think part of the problem is that he may have started this and you weren't there to pick it up promptly and he decided to eatbiit. You haven't told us enough of his eating habits and when and where he eliminates on a regular basis.


 He started at the breeder's. When we took him home at 9 weeks, she mentioned that he sometimes eats his poop. You're right in that now he'll just eat it if I'm not around. However, it's not practical to be with him every second of every day. Sometimes I leave him at home when I think he's empty, but then I'll come home to an ex-pen with a few small poop stains and a puppy with bad breath. He's not alone for a very long time - just a couple hours. Sometimes he'll do it within the 30 minutes it takes to drop my kids off at school and come back home.

I'm now trying to bring Finley with me everywhere and not leave him alone for a second. I worry that's going to make him have separation anxiety issues eventually.

We feed him 3 times a day, 1 cup total of Fromm's Heartland Gold puppy kibble, at around 7am, noon, and 5pm. He usually poops once or twice in the morning and again 1-2 times in the afternoon/evening. His elimination schedule is not consistent. Maybe I should start writing it all down to see if I can find a pattern.

We're using a grated potty system (Richell Paw Trax) in an ex-pen with a crate, just as Dunbar instructs. Finley is completely reliable if the ex-pen is small, seeking out the potty on his own to do his business. No accidents as long as it's a small area (we're working on slowly enlarging the space). I really love the indoor potty system and it's going very well, so I want to keep it if at all possible. It's just that on the occasions that he's left alone in the ex-pen, he'll eat his poop. He'd be the perfect little doggy if he didn't do that!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

you might want to get him on just two feedings a day. , early when you get up and maybe 6 or 7 pm. In order for him not to eat it , he can't have access to it when you are not there. You might want to put him in a crate for short periods at first and gradually increase the time. You have to train him how to hold it so an expen with a potty area won't help. I would take him out from the crate frequently and try to get him to eliminate outside. Remember the crate is a short time confinement tool because you don't want to use the xpen indoors untill he is eliminating outdoors and not touching his poop. It might work if you're consistent, and don't give him a chance to eat it.


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

I have never crated him when I'm not at home because I'm absolutely TERRIFIED that he'll eliminate in his crate while I'm gone. Then potty training will become a nightmare because he will have lost the instinct not to soil where he sleeps, right?

I've considered doing outdoors poop training, but I'm still left with the same problem of what happens when he's alone, unless I crate him (see sentence above).


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

wencit said:


> We feed him 3 times a day, 1 cup total of Fromm's Heartland Gold puppy kibble, at around 7am, noon, and 5pm. He usually poops once or twice in the morning and again 1-2 times in the afternoon/evening.


I am not a canine nutritionist! so take what I say with a grain of salt. 1 cup per day sounds like a lot for a 16 week old. The more you feed them, the more they poop. Ricky is 15 pounds and 5 years old. He gets 1 cup a day for his weight maintenance ( 1/3 cup Honest Kitchen twice a day and 1/3 cup steamed vegetables once per day). His weight is very stable as an adult male. He poops 2 to 4 times a day, so three times on average.

I would talk to Finley's Vet about the amount to feed him at his age.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

wencit said:


> I've considered doing outdoors poop training, but I'm still left with the same problem of what happens when he's alone, unless I crate him (see sentence above).


It took us 6 months to housebreak Ricky to be 100% reliable and dependable. The idea is to teach them to "hold it" until they are allowed into that special spot, whether it is indoors or outdoors. This is a lot of work on the owners part - supervising your puppy constantly during this training period. It will happen, it just requires a lot of patience.

Ricky's Popi


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

wencit said:


> I have never crated him when I'm not at home because I'm absolutely TERRIFIED that he'll eliminate in his crate while I'm gone. Then potty training will become a nightmare because he will have lost the instinct not to soil where he sleeps, right?
> 
> I've considered doing outdoors poop training, but I'm still left with the same problem of what happens when he's alone, unless I crate him (see sentence above).


Every dog I've owned, I've crate trained 4 dogs. Every single one had a couple of "accidents" in their crates. I knew they were disgusted with themselves. All of these dogs were housetrained and never soiled their crates again after the initial week of crating. I am not any kind of a pro though.
Ricky's Poppi has a point about the amount of food. That does seem like a lot of food for a puppy. My 10 lb. boy is supposed to eat 3/4 cup a day. He is very hungry and very active and gets 1 cup(and no other treats). Could it be that you might be overfeeding him?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

you have to crate him for short times at first , and as soon as you take him out of crate you have to take him outside. , and if he goes praise and reward ., pick up his poop and then play for awih ile. If he doesnt go take him in and crate him, You have to get him used to going poop outdoors first. Has he ever gone outside.?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

at four months, and if he is 5 lbs 1 cup a day would not be too much. Follow the guidelines and monitor his weight.


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I am not a canine nutritionist! so take what I say with a grain of salt. 1 cup per day sounds like a lot for a 16 week old. The more you feed them, the more they poop. Ricky is 15 pounds and 5 years old. He gets 1 cup a day for his weight maintenance ( 1/3 cup Honest Kitchen twice a day and 1/3 cup steamed vegetables once per day). His weight is very stable as an adult male. He poops 2 to 4 times a day, so three times on average.
> 
> I would talk to Finley's Vet about the amount to feed him at his age.
> 
> Ricky's Popi





davetgabby said:


> at four months, and if he is 5 lbs 1 cup a day would not be too much. Follow the guidelines and monitor his weight.


 I was originally giving him 3/4 cup total, but the vet told me last week that I could up his intake to 1 cup total. At 16 weeks and 6lb 11oz, how much should I be giving him? 3/4 cup total per day? Or maybe just 1/2 cup?

Edited to add: Ooops, sorry Dave, I was so tired this morning, I didn't realize you wrote that 1 cup is NOT too much.


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> It took us 6 months to housebreak Ricky to be 100% reliable and dependable. The idea is to teach them to "hold it" until they are allowed into that special spot, whether it is indoors or outdoors. This is a lot of work on the owners part - supervising your puppy constantly during this training period. It will happen, it just requires a lot of patience.


 Ah, that makes sense! Somehow in all my reading, I missed this point about crate training. I thought the crate was just a place to hold the dog if you couldn't watch him, to make sure he wasn't eliminating on the floor.

I am such a newbie at this, can you tell?


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

Tere said:


> Every dog I've owned, I've crate trained 4 dogs. Every single one had a couple of "accidents" in their crates. I knew they were disgusted with themselves. All of these dogs were housetrained and never soiled their crates again after the initial week of crating.


 Oh wow, good to know that an accident or two won't completely ruin housetraining efforts. I thought I was doomed if the dog eliminated in the crate because I figured he then lost his "keep the crate clean" instinct. I'm relieved to hear that's not true (but of course, I will still try my best not to have that happen!).


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

wencit said:


> I was originally giving him 3/4 cup total, but the vet told me last week that I could up his intake to 1 cup total. At 16 weeks and 6lb 11oz, how much should I be giving him? 3/4 cup total per day? Or maybe just 1/2 cup?


If the Vet said recently to give him 1 cup a day, then that's what you should do.

Ricky's Popi


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

davetgabby said:


> you have to crate him for short times at first , and as soon as you take him out of crate you have to take him outside. , and if he goes praise and reward ., pick up his poop and then play for awih ile. If he doesnt go take him in and crate him, You have to get him used to going poop outdoors first. Has he ever gone outside.?


 Yes, he's gone outside in our backyard and also on walks. However, we usually take him to his indoor potty. My plan was to indoor potty train him first, because I read on here that dogs naturally prefer to go outside and that they'll lose their indoor training if I don't keep it up.

We used the crate training method when we first brought Finley home. We did exactly as you said, the only difference is that we took him to his indoor potty instead of outside. So now instead of scratching at the door or ringing bells or barking to go outside, Finley will immediately head to his indoor potty to eliminate.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

wencit said:


> I thought the crate was just a place to hold the dog if you couldn't watch him, to make sure he wasn't eliminating on the floor.


we have always made Ricky's crate a fun place for him. The crate door is always open for him (except at night when it is bedtime). He is free to come and go as he pleases. Sometimes we put his food bowl in there for feeding. We sometimes put a couple of toys in there for him to find and play with. Sometimes he chooses to go in there just to take a nap. Therefore, he doesn't view his crate as something bad, it is a happy place for him.

Ricky's Popi


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

I thought we were doing well until last night. We fed Finley at 4pm because we knew we had to leave the house at 6pm. We played with him and made him run around, but didn't take him outside because it was raining here. Still no poop. He had pooped at 3:30pm, so I figured maybe he didn't need to go again. Went out to dinner, came back to a clean potty, and thought we were good. Then I checked the video monitor. We left the house at 6:15pm and at 6:35pm, Finley pooped and ate it. ARGH!

Please tell me what I did wrong so that this doesn't happen again. Is he now holding his poop until we leave so that he can eat it?

At this point, my husband and I have decided that someone has to be with the puppy 24/7 for at least the next couple months, even if it means canceling activities, like my son's band concert on Thursday.  At least summer vacation starts in 2 weeks, so there will be fewer events on the calendar.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I'd feed whatever amount the vet thinks. Every food is different too and puppies food/feeding is different too! My guy was 10 months and still on puppy food and pooping 8 times a day! 
I wonder if everyone's dog has had accidents in the crate at first? My first 2 dogs did for the first week til they learned control. My 1st. was 8 weeks old and I worked 8 hours a day so I was gone. No one I knew crated back then so advice was limited(1980). The first week I had him, I'd put him in a small bathroom while I was gone and every night I came home to a room that had to be scrubbed. It was disgusting. I bought a crate. It was a little too big for him so for another week, I'd come home to a mess in the crate and a stinking puppy. But I would clean the crate up and the puppy. He got the drift after a week. 
That dog, Casper(a Bichon Frise) lived to be 18 and was always crated when I was out. Never an accident in or out of the crate. Well, until his final week when he was loosing control of his bowels and couldn't walk. 
My last 2 dogs have been 9-10 months when I got them. Both had accidents when they were left alone the first few times but it was more like they were upset about being alone(separation anxiety). They got over it and the crate elimination was over.
I think the problem arises when the dog thinks they should "go" in the crate, and they do not have a potty place.
I'm not expert but this has been my experience.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

wencit said:


> Please tell me what I did wrong so that this doesn't happen again. Is he now holding his poop until we leave so that he can eat it?


You did nothing wrong. But setbacks will occur despite your best efforts. He is not holding it until you are gone. It just happened.



> At this point, my husband and I have decided that someone has to be with the puppy 24/7 for at least the next couple months, even if it means canceling activities, like my son's band concert on Thursday.


Absolutely NO, do not miss your son's band concert. That is not a good idea.

Yes, raising a puppy is a 24/7 job for a relatively short period of time. If you need to get away for an hour or two, can you leave him with a trusted friend? If not, I suggest you consider a doggie diaper. Ricky used one when he was neutered. He hated the cone and we put a diaper on him to keep him from licking his stitches. We still have it someplace. It was jeans material on the outside and looked cute on him. you can buy them at Petco, Petsmart, or any large pet store.

Ricky's Popi


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> we have always made Ricky's crate a fun place for him. The crate door is always open for him (except at night when it is bedtime). He is free to come and go as he pleases. Sometimes we put his food bowl in there for feeding. We sometimes put a couple of toys in there for him to find and play with. Sometimes he chooses to go in there just to take a nap. Therefore, he doesn't view his crate as something bad, it is a happy place for him.


 I'm so sorry if this sounds dumb, but how do you teach the puppy to "hold it" if the crate door is always open? We did the Dunbar method of crate training in the first few weeks (take him out, play 30 minutes, then put him back in for 15 minutes before taking him to eliminate, repeat many times). But now that Finley is nearly potty trained, we always leave the crate door open.

Again, I'm sorry if this is a dumb question. I'm just really confused right now.


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> You did nothing wrong. But setbacks will occur despite your best efforts. He is not holding it until you are gone. It just happened.


 Ricky's Popi, I could just kiss you right now! Thank you for saying that. I was kicking myself so hard last night and feeling like a failure.



> If you need to get away for an hour or two, can you leave him with a trusted friend? If not, I suggest you consider a doggie diaper.


 OK, I'll try to find a friend to watch him. That's a good idea.

The doggie diaper sounds intriguing! Does the dog not try to pull it off? I'm imagining myself coming home to a diaper ripped off, no poop in sight, and a puppy with the telltale breath.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I was never able to indoor potty train with poop. I wish I had posted about it because you have great advice here! I just accepted taking him out for poop, but he wasn’t regularly eating it. Once he ate another dog’s poop - I thought he was holding bark/mulch and about died. I hope that makes you feel better  I didn’t even handle it well, I completely overreacted! 

It’s hard when you can’t track his poop schedule. Ours also held it and would ONLY poop on grass. It took a long time for me to figure out that one. The other trouble we had was that our puppy took multiple poops. Sometimes he would poop outside and come in and poop a bit more. Once I realized that it helped because I knew to have him poop twice before taking him back in. 

I had to keep mine very focused on potty by controlling where he went and taking him back inside if he didn’t poop right away. Always on leash or he would run around like it was playtime. I also had to back up with potty training several times because of poop. He was pee trained long before he was pooped trained, and then one day he started marking and I was SO confused because it looked like he was peeing, he never lifted a leg! All of the containment advice is what worked for us, and it did work so don’t give up hope - it’s not over yet  

I never took him on walks to get him to poop because he was too excited and would clearly forget why he was outside. We did take him on walks after he pooped for a while, but we took him back inside and out through a different door to distinguish play time from poop time. It might have been overkill but I’ll do it again with my next puppy because it worked for us. He goes potty very quickly on command. 

Our puppy also had anal gland issues that have resolved, he hasn’t had trouble with them in 6 months. I think it was a combination of diet, physical maturity, anxiety, and heartgard giving him diarrhea for at least a week of every month. Poop accidents were always a sign that he needed his glands checked. We never had them emptied on a schedule, but took him to the vet and he did need them emptied about every month or so for a while, which gradually decreased. The vet taught my husband to do it but not his favorite thing so he only did in a few times, I usually took him in. It sounds like you already checked with your vet, but something to consider if his poop isn’t pretty firm and he’s having accidents. 

While you’re figuring this out, it might really help for you to find someone you can leave him with. It’s really hard to be glued to the house, even if it’s temporary. We had good luck with the dog sitting/walking/boarding apps, but the more reliable users tend to charge more and are often booked in my area so i do have to plan ahead.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

to reboot... You have him trained to use his indoor potty ok To solve the eating it you have to remove his ability to access it. You cannot leave himm in the xpen wih the crate open. You need to crate him . When you take him out of the crate I would take him outside immediatly. If he goes poop remove it immediately while treating him with your other hand lol. If he doesnt go in ten minutes take him back in to his crate and lock it. Then you have to repeat in a half hour until he goes. If you have someone available to help that would help greatly. He cant be left in his xpen alone for now until you can get him going outside on a regular basis. You need to get a regular feeding time and it would be easier to predict his poop times if you fed two times daily. I don't recommend diapers. Go with your vet for now on amount to feed. Then later you can follow your food co. recommendations https://frommfamily.com/products/dog/gold/dry/heartland-gold-puppy/daily-feeding-recommendations/ 
Monitor weight .


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

davetgabby said:


> to reboot... You have him trained to use his indoor potty ok To solve the eating it you have to remove his ability to access it. You cannot leave himm in the xpen wih the crate open. You need to crate him . When you take him out of the crate I would take him outside immediatly. If he goes poop remove it immediately while treating him with your other hand lol. If he doesnt go in ten minutes take him back in to his crate and lock it. Then you have to repeat in a half hour until he goes. If you have someone available to help that would help greatly. He cant be left in his xpen alone for now until you can get him going outside on a regular basis. You need to get a regular feeding time and it would be easier to predict his poop times if you fed two times daily. I don't recommend diapers. Go with your vet for now on amount to feed. Then later you can follow your food co. recommendations https://frommfamily.com/products/dog/gold/dry/heartland-gold-puppy/daily-feeding-recommendations/
> Monitor weight .


 OK, I think I got it. Feed him twice a day, half a cup (?) at each time. Absolutely no leaving him alone in the ex-pen with potty. My questions are as follows:

1) Do I do the crate training you described above only when I think he should poop? So after feeding the puppy breakfast and dinner? I don't do it all day long, right?

2) Can I take him to poop in the indoor potty, or must it be outside? If it has to be outside, why?

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me!!!


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I was never able to indoor potty train with poop. I wish I had posted about it because you have great advice here! I just accepted taking him out for poop, but he wasn't regularly eating it. Once he ate another dog's poop - I thought he was holding bark/mulch and about died. I hope that makes you feel better  I didn't even handle it well, I completely overreacted!
> 
> It's hard when you can't track his poop schedule. Ours also held it and would ONLY poop on grass. It took a long time for me to figure out that one. The other trouble we had was that our puppy took multiple poops. Sometimes he would poop outside and come in and poop a bit more. Once I realized that it helped because I knew to have him poop twice before taking him back in.
> 
> ...


 Thank you for sharing your experience. Interesting that you mention the anal glands, because Tere also mentioned her coprophagic dog had really full anal glands. When I read your posts, it reminded me that Finley seems overly interested in his backside/anal area, but I didn't think much of it. I thought he was looking for more poop to eat, LOL! I think I'll make an appointment with my vet and see if they'll check the anal glands (I forgot to ask about it at last week's appointment - not sure if they checked them or not). It's worth a shot to just take a look.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

It’s tricky because anal glands were routinely emptied by groomers and vets for a long time and the advice now is not to do this. Most dogs don’t need them emptied. Based on what my vet said, though, I do think it’s more common for puppies to need occasional help. Sometimes he would scoot, but not always. Twice I was about to take him to the vet because of scooting and accidents and then he pooped enormously and it resolved itself. 

There’s a really good chance it’s not even a problem, but at least you’ll know for sure there isn’t a medical reason for accidents and you have a great outline to follow based on the advice from others


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*take him with you *



wencit said:


> I thought we were doing well until last night. We fed Finley at 4pm because we knew we had to leave the house at 6pm. We played with him and made him run around, but didn't take him outside because it was raining here. Still no poop. He had pooped at 3:30pm, so I figured maybe he didn't need to go again. Went out to dinner, came back to a clean potty, and thought we were good. Then I checked the video monitor. We left the house at 6:15pm and at 6:35pm, Finley pooped and ate it. ARGH!
> 
> Please tell me what I did wrong so that this doesn't happen again. Is he now holding his poop until we leave so that he can eat it?
> 
> At this point, my husband and I have decided that someone has to be with the puppy 24/7 for at least the next couple months, even if it means canceling activities, like my son's band concert on Thursday.  At least summer vacation starts in 2 weeks, so there will be fewer events on the calendar.


Alternatively to leaving him in a diaper OR skipping events (I agree -don't skip them) - how about putting him in a sherpa bag and taking him with you . How is he in a travel bag. I'm lucky because Perry is so quiet no one ever knows I have him with me (his bag is solid black, even the mesh, so no one notices that it's a pet bag), so if I have to go somewhere where he's technically not allowed (like when we're traveling and need to stop to eat or run into the convenience store) I keep him in his bag, pop it over my shoulder then slip it under the table between my feet and no one is the wiser (after all, I can't stop eating just because we're traveling  ) -- could you do the same with things like the concert, if he stays quiet of course. You could always freeze food into a kong and throw that into the bag with him so that it keeps him occupied. then at most all you would need to do would be to run outside with him once or twice if he needed to potty.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I agree with EvaElizabeth on the gland emptying. It is tricky. 
My groomer says she can tell if they need emptying(former Vet Tech) and does it. I went to a new groomer this week and she said that it is the vet's job. I only went to the new groomer because she is closer and Shadow gets so carsick. I'll be going back to my old groomer since Shadow does seem to have this issue and for a few other reasons. He's been to the groomer probably 12 times and has needed them done twice.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

wencit said:


> OK, I think I got it. Feed him twice a day, half a cup (?) at each time. Absolutely no leaving him alone in the ex-pen with potty. My questions are as follows:
> 
> 1) Do I do the crate training you described above only when I think he should poop? So after feeding the puppy breakfast and dinner? I don't do it all day long, right?
> 
> ...


Right Absolutely no leaving him alone in the ex-pen . I would not encourage indoor pooping and would reward outdoor pooping vigorously with treat and play. You want to see if you can break the habit , long enough that he might lose interest in eating it. At least you can be present when you are outdoors and reduce the chance of him eating it.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

wencit said:


> Yes, he's gone outside in our backyard and also on walks.  However, we usually take him to his indoor potty. My plan was to indoor potty train him first, because I read on here that dogs naturally prefer to go outside and that they'll lose their indoor training if I don't keep it up.
> 
> We used the crate training method when we first brought Finley home. We did exactly as you said, the only difference is that we took him to his indoor potty instead of outside. So now instead of scratching at the door or ringing bells or barking to go outside, Finley will immediately head to his indoor potty to eliminate.


My female is 15-months old and is Indoor-Housebroken to a potty tray. We have a fenced yard and Patti now asks to go outside to do her job. However, if we are not home or if the weather is bad Patti will go to the potty tray.

While she was being housebroken and before we got a fence - We walked her two to three times a day and Patti peed and pooped outside on the walks. Back in the house she was kept in an ex-pen with a potty tray, that opened into a kitchen-family area. When we didn't have eyes on her, she was confined to the ex-pen. When we were watching her we kept the door open and she ran in and out of the ex-pen. When Patti needed to do her job she would go use the potty tray in the ex-pen. When we became confident she would use the potty tray, we left the ex-pen door open when leaving the room ... which was gated. She was housebroken to that one room by four months.

What we did NOT do - We didn't taken her out every half hour or hour to* train her to go outside* while we doing indoor-housebreaking. But - she often peed and pooped outside during walks. 

Patti has never eaten poop, although she's always very interested in giving each pile a sniff and as a puppy loved! carrying around poop-cycles (frozen poop). Which, I of course wrestled to get them from her.

NEVER before until - Very recently, Patti did eat some very juicy, fresh, warm poop as it dropped out of our Golden-doodles butt. Her nose followed it to the ground and for some reason she decided to give it a taste. Of course, as soon as we acted Grossed out and set out to stop her ... it became a game of eating the poop before we could get it. She's done this twice.

I've started adding Instinct Frozen RAW beef to her kibble, thinking something might be missing in her diet. Patti had seemed bored with her food. She's on Instinct Kibble, Science Diet & gets a few pieces of RAW beef or chicken. Heck! I don't know why she did that and HOPE she has stopped. I'm quick to pick up the poop in the yard ... although she doesn't seem interested unless it's warm and fresh.*:surprise:*


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## Zenith360 (Mar 17, 2019)

I used to work at a pet supply store, and some of the things I would recommend for this problem are:

1.) Switching to a higher protein food. Many times this alone solved the problem. I recommend a food where the majority of protein comes from animal protein-- Fromm has a lot of protein from legumes (peas, lentils, chickpeas). It is certainly not a bad quality food, but it may not be the right fit for your pup at this stage of life. I recommend Farmina brand puppy food, which takes 92-93% of its protein from animal sources.

2.) Adding digestive enzymes. Sometimes with kibble, because it is processed, dogs have trouble breaking down the nutrients and so want to eat them when they come out the other end. Digestive enzymes can help with nutrient absorption.

3.) Using the product "Forbid" in their food to make their poop taste yucky.

Good luck!! I'm sure the behavior will end one way or another!


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

I'm way too involved in Finley's poop eating issue. 0
@Davegabby's recommendation is Right On and it still works with indoor-housebreaking. It's something I would try and think is - totally - doable.

As Dave suggested - When you leave the house place Finley in a small crate with a Favorite Treat he doesn't get any other time. Cover the crate. He'll live and be fine and most likely won't soil the area.

When you get home take him outside. If he poops great. If not bring him back inside and put him in the ex-pen or whatever you routine is. Watch Him Like a Hawk. When you see him start to attack his yummy poop - Slap Your Hands - to stop him. Say Drop It. Pick it up and then give him a special treat after you have captured (picked up) his MOST Favorite Treat.

If it were me, I would not reward him if he poops or pees outside ...IF you want to indoor house break him. To goal is to setup the situation where you can catch him and remove the poop and tell him to Drop It and treat him for not eating it. It is not to outdoor housebreak him. He'll eventually do this on his own.

Since Finley is prone to eating his own poop, he'll - likely - eat outside poop, as well as, inside poop. I understand you're trying to set up the situation where you know when he's doing his JOB.

I'm sympathetic. He's young and trainable. You can, also, take him with you sometimes ... if it's convenient to do.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

There's another post regarding this issue: HELP WITH 3 MONTH OLD

Here is a link from this post about dog's eating poop. https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2018/10/01/coprophagia-in-dogs.aspx


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

You guys are awesome! Thank you SO much for all your advice! Based on your feedback, I have adjusted certain things for Finley and will share what we're doing.

Mikki, I'm sorry to hear Patti has become a member of Poop Eaters Anonymous. Hopefully this is just a temporary membership for her, and she'll be able to leave this terrible club soon.

I'm happy to report that Finley has not had a taste of his poop in a week now, mostly because we no longer allow him access to it - EVER. We've been bringing him with us, or someone has been home with him, eyes on, all week. Except last night, when we left him locked in his crate for the first time ever. It was only about an hour, and I was a nervous wreck the whole time, but he was fine. I'm going to work on doing this daily and slowly extend the amount of time we leave him alone.

We're also in the process of changing Finley's food. We've been switching him over to Wellness Core Small Breed Puppy, which gets highest marks over at dogfoodadvisor.com. He doesn't seem to be as interested in sniffing his poop, and he doesn't whip around as soon as he's finished to get a taste. My friend watched Finley for me a couple days ago, and although her own Havanese pooped in her backyard while she wasn't paying attention, Finley didn't try to eat it! I'm shocked!

Every time he poops, I immediately say, "Leave it!" even though he now mostly walks away, and I give him a piece of freeze dried liver.

Anyways, I think we are on the right path, and I'm just crossing my fingers that Finley will eventually grow out of this phase. I hope in a few months, I'll be able to update this thread and tell you that his coprophagia is gone!!!


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

We are keeping our paws crossed for Finley and you! I was so disgusted with Shadow when he did it. It was funny the first time. The breeder brought him to my house and as she was leaving, we were out front and Shadow was having a poop. I said, "I think he is trying to eat his poop!" She replied, "No, he wasn't. He has never done it before." And then she picked him up to give him a kiss goodbye. He got poop on her mouth!>
We had a few things to overcome the first month or so!


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

@wecit ...Great to hear you've got a routine where you can change Finley's pattern. 

I've been diligent about picking up the both Patti and Lucy's (Golden-doodles) poops. Patti show's no interest in poop laying on the ground. I, too, changed what I was feeding her. Patti started skipping meals and was not excited about eating. I thought her poop-eating act might be due a nutritional need she wasn't getting. I'm now giving her two Instinct Frozen Beef/Chicken Raw Medallions with 1/4 c of Instinct Kibble - twice a day, which is highly rated on the web site you provided. Patti appears more food satisfied. I hoping this curbs her interest in poop coming out of Lucy's behind. She's still such a puppy.

I read on the Instinct web site (I think this was the place) where you can feed dogs Raw Chicken Necks and Backs, if ONLY feeding the RAW food, to satisfy chewing: it's good for their gums, cleaning teeth, some other things. The literature said the chicken neck and backs must be RAW - NOT cooked. Comments......


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Mikki said:


> Comments......


Specific "special" diets should be discussed with your VET before going "whole hog." Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

Ricky's Popi


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

I know this discussion is old, but I want to say that 1 cup is NOT too much food for a puppy. Puppies require more food than adults. Most instructions on puppy type kibble (for those who go the kibble route) suggest this much. And usually you DECREASE the amount fed as the puppy gets older. I was feeding mine 3/4 cup and it wasn’t enough.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Melissa Woods said:


> I know this discussion is old, but I want to say that 1 cup is NOT too much food for a puppy. Puppies require more food than adults. Most instructions on puppy type kibble (for those who go the kibble route) suggest this much. And usually you DECREASE the amount fed as the puppy gets older. I was feeding mine 3/4 cup and it wasn't enough.


Definitely it's important to individualize like you have. I think part of it is the range in size is much wider for Havanese compared to other breeds. So one of the teeny tiny puppies might need a much smaller portion and would be completely overfed based on the bag's recommendation. Ideally a vet would be able to provide an individualized recommendation, because there are ways to calculate the approximate recommended caloric intake based on the puppy's size and weight, but it's still an estimation.

Mine eats just under 1/2 cup of kibble 2x day, and I think it's the best portion for him because it maintains his weight and it allows me to reserve calories for a few treats throughout the day. He is on the larger side.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Melissa Woods said:
> 
> 
> > I know this discussion is old, but I want to say that 1 cup is NOT too much food for a puppy. Puppies require more food than adults. Most instructions on puppy type kibble (for those who go the kibble route) suggest this much. And usually you DECREASE the amount fed as the puppy gets older. I was feeding mine 3/4 cup and it wasn't enough.
> ...


Yeah, I go by weight on the package. For my 6 month old I actually just raised him to 1 cup. 1/2 cup twice a day just like you, but pups need more calories per pound of body weight than adults. So when I switch to adult, I might be giving the same amount depending on his adult weight.

He was a super fast grower for a long time (even with picky eating) and has been at 8 lbs for a month or so. My breeder says the double the 16 week weight plus or minus 10% has been very effective in predicting puppies' adult weight. She initially said 10-11 lbs and he was 6 lbs even at 16 weeks. I have a strong feeling he'll be around 12 lbs.

I think some very healthy dog food brands have lately been lower in calories per cup, which is great unless your growing puppy won't eat a lot at a time. So that's an important factor. I bought a puppy food recommended by the pet store and he would have needed 1.5 cups for his weight (to keep growing). It had about 225 kcal a cup. Ended up returning bc Oliver didn't like it. And he's NEVER eaten more than a cup a day and that's with a lot of exercise. He's kind of picky as it is and often doesn't finish his food. I think it's fine as long as I offer but literally eating nothing is a problem lol.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I remember reading that the high calorie puppy food is really some kind of marketing thing, and it can make it confusing to compare portions in different foods. I still fed puppy food because of the smaller pieces, though, and just did the “feel test” whenever we made changes. 

Have you tried the “feel test?” No idea what the real name is! I know the really experienced members have shared instructions on how to do it, and I think someone even shared a picture once, but since I don’t know what it’s really called I can’t really search for the threads. All I remember is that you should be able to feel their ribs, but there IS more to it than that!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Oh I can easily feel his ribs. At times I can tell he’s not eating enough for his exercise level because I can feel his ribs far too easily. 

In any case, the point w dog caloric needs is just that growing puppies need twice the calories per pound than adult dogs. Regardless of how you get there. Obviously puppies are smaller than dogs so you just have to do the math, and as you said, watch the dog


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

It's been a looooong time, but I wanted to come back and update this thread for anyone else in the future who might be having poop eating issues and stumble across this.

Finley is now 18 months old, and has STOPPED EATING HIS POOP!!!! The behavior stopped probably a little past his 1-year birthday. Every time he ate it, I would give a stern, "No! Leave it!" followed by no treat. (He would get a treat if he pooped and didn't eat it.) I used to literally hover over him as he pooped so that I could pick it up immediately. I slowly increased the time and distance between him pooping and me treating him. We worked on the "Leave it!" command constantly. Finley was also never left alone with access to his potty. Ever. If we had to leave the room for even a minute and someone couldn't watch him, we would put him in his crate. We would do this for a while with him successfully not eating his poop and then one day he would regress while we weren't paying attention and eat it again. Rinse and repeat. It was exhausting. I had gotten resigned to the fact that we might have a dog who would eat it for the rest of his life.

Then one day, my husband and I were talking and didn't notice that Finley had gone poop on his potty. We heard a little whining noise, and looked over to see him standing next to his uneaten poop. Oh my, you should have seen the amount of cheering, praising, and treating that went on! Treat after treat after treat after treat! Weeks went by, and the same thing happened but without the whining now. I wouldn't notice when he pooped, but I'd come across his uneaten poop on the potty. Lots of praise and treats. 

I'm still very wary, but I've also learned his poop patterns, so we leave him alone for short periods of time now when I can be reasonably sure he's empty. Our house is also kind of small with an open floor plan, so it's easy to keep track of his whereabouts. 

All the advice in this thread was SO helpful to me. Thank you! I used to say that Finley would be the perfect dog if he didn't eat his poop, but now I can say that he absolutely IS the perfect dog. 

Oh, I'm attaching a picture I took of my little cutie last week.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Finley's mouth was perfect for poop eating. What if he'd had a White Mouth? :surprise:

Great Story!! and example how patience and persistence pays off. Finley is very! handsome and most certainly is the Perfect Dog.

Patti use to carry around frozen poop-cycles when she was a puppy. I read they are a favorite of many dogs. She'd pick them up and carry them while walking. Of course, I would make her drop them. Occasionally, she would take a little bite of something fresh but I always caught her and make her drop it. I didn't have a problem with her eating her poo. Fortunately. 

She's outgrown that but loves to take a Sniff of anything nasty.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yay! I’m so glad you were persistent and taught him not to do it! I know how you feel! I haven’t had to deal with it, but I was FANATICAL about never giving Kodi the opportunity when he was a puppy just for FEAR he MIGHT become a poop eater! LOL!

Finley is super cute, and I am so glad that he is now “absolutely perfect”!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

THANK YOU SO MUCH for getting back to us with an update! So often I wonder what happens to the OP and their dog ... I love the happy ending to that story (and bravo for all your efforts), and that photo is adorable! You should open an instagram account so we can easily see more of him! (I just started on Instagram: shamamama15!)


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