# Hav colors - is Ceylon a brindle or a sable?



## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Ceylon's breeder classified him as a gold brindle. She also said that Cey's father was almost the same color when he was a puppy, and I met him (Cey's father) and he is almost pure white now. I have read and re-read all of the color descriptions for sable vs. brindle, but Ceylon really seems to be a conglomerate of colors in, what to me, is an absolutely fascinating way. I think pictures can explain it better:

He has semi-solid dark brown or black, I think to the roots, on his beard, tips of his ears, and tip of his tail.

Beard (and he has an obviously white patch on his chest which you can also see somewhat in this pic):









Ears (and a close-up of his face):









Tail:









His legs and hindquarters have almost exclusively white (perhaps not as white as his chest patch) at the roots, though they are liberally tipped with a grayish gold color and black now:









His upper back, however, has dark brown/black and other colors (brown? gold? white?) going all the way down to the roots, although the dark brown/black is sparsely populated - and where not dark, the roots seem more light brown or creamish colored than the white on the roots of for instance his hindquarters:









Finally, on the top of his head all the way down his ears until the dark tips, is very gold down to the roots, though currently black tipped as well (the color didn't turn out very well in the pic, but IRL it is definitely much more 'golden' than the areas pictured above), with just a few random dark hairs going all the way down to the roots:









The whole package (this pic was taken by his breeder before I got him, so its a bit outdated, but even though I have taken hundreds of pictures of him I still don't have as nice of a full body shot as this one! He has lightened up a little bit on the dark parts of him - tail, ears - since then, but it's still pretty close to his current coloring):









And here is a picture of his dad, whom his breeder (also the dog's owner) said was much the same color as Cey was as a puppy:









I know that whatever Ceylon is, that he will most likely change a lot as he matures. (I really don't want him to at the moment, because I just LOVE his coloring right now!! - but I also know that I love his coloring because I love him, and so I will no doubt also love whatever colors he grows into!) And I also know that there is no way to predict exactly what colors he will grow into, and that is part of the mystique of owning a hav! But the sable/brindle thing has sort of been driving me nuts since I got him... not that I don't trust his breeder, but in reading the formal descriptions of brindle colorings, he doesn't quite seem to fit since it is only in a few places where his coloring goes all the way down to the roots... so if anybody has any thoughts, please let me know!


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

I would have to agree with your breeder even though I'm sure not an expert! But, with the gold at the roots is where she gets the gold sable. I have a feeling he will look much like his dad as he gets older. Abby is a sable and she's lost almost all of her dark colors.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Brindle is easiest to see on tiny puppies, because it looks like they have tiger stripes. They tend to lighten also, but do tend to have more color as adults than sables do. You can't see the striping much when they are adults, even on the ones who stay darker, because the longer hair tends to get mixed together. Some brindles are darker as adults than Ceylon is now.

But what ever color he turns out to be, that's one of the charms of Havs is seeing their color changes!


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## jevans708 (Dec 8, 2007)

If I attached the photos correctly you can see how Gravy became lighter as he aged.


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

Hi Heather,
I would not call him a brindle. to me I would call him a sable. typically a brindle aside from having the brindle striping also carries a black beard.

Here are a couple of photos of my girl BG who is a silver brindle.

the first picture is when she was new born, unfortunately with all my computer crashes I have not been able to recover the full body view to where you could see the striping. 

The second picture is when she was about 7 months old and the last one she is 10 months old. She is now 3 years old and looks the same other than she has longer hair now.

but to this day you can still see her brindle striping.


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## butterscoth28 (Jul 15, 2010)

Butterscotch is classified as a sable and (like most havs) has gotten a lot lighter but still maintains a rich golden color.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Your pup is so cute! Although this is your trend I just wanted to show off Maddie who is going to be a true black and tan. I'm just a proud mom


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Dizzie is a sable, first pic of him at 12 weeks, second pic of him with Nellie, Dizzie is now 2 years old.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks for all of your replies, and your pictures! Havs are such beautiful dogs and I love seeing how they change as they grow up, I can't wait to see what Ceylon looks like when he is older!


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## O'Bluff (Jan 29, 2011)

CacheHavs said:


> Hi Heather,
> I would not call him a brindle. to me I would call him a sable. typically a brindle aside from having the brindle striping also carries a black beard.
> 
> Here are a couple of photos of my girl BG who is a silver brindle.
> ...


THAT is a beautiful dog!

I'm beginning to think that Picasso will end up almost all white.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I believe Jack was a sable. Now picture and puppy picture. He has lighten out, still have the back tips which have not been cut off.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

Gigi, you're kids are always so beautiful. Do you do some trim work on their faces, or just leave it grow? I'm always trying to figure out the head work on my girls, and I'm never happy with what I end up with. Very frustrating...


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

dodrop82 said:


> Gigi, you're kids are always so beautiful. Do you do some trim work on their faces, or just leave it grow? I'm always trying to figure out the head work on my girls, and I'm never happy with what I end up with. Very frustrating...


Yes, Dizzie has his face rounded off, and thinned out behind the ears.I find it keeps his face cleaner for longer.Some people like the rounded look, others prefer the long flowing look[which is very beautiful] but IMO a lot of hard work, and then there is the more thinned out look[very cute]more like a shaggy mutt.Nellie as yet has not had much done, just a little trim around her eyes as she suffers a bit with tear staining,so I want to keep the fur out of her eyes, hopefully she will grow out of it, Dizzie did just after he turned 1.I don't think I would be any good at that top knot thing!


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

Sable.

Here's a good example of brindle that has retained the stripes:
http://www.havanesegallery.hu/show_dog.php?id=28396


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

I'd like to know the distinction as well.

my little guy is 1/2 hav 1/2 shih tzu. I was told by his breeder he was a silver sable. I had to shave him down when he broke his leg. he is brindle when his coat is short (less than an inch).

but with it grown out, he just looks like a mix of colors, gray, white black tipped. he's lightening up quite a bit now that he has his adult coat.
see pics.


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

Old discussion but...here is a good information about sable/brindle that I found on this website http://www.havanesefanciers.com/?q=node/671

'How can I tell the difference between Sable and Brindle?

The best age to differentiate sable from brindle is between 24 and 48 hours after birth. At this time, the colours have had time to develop, but the coat is still short enough to distinguish between the two.

A true brindle coat will appear mottled, blotchy, or striped, with two or three different colours throughout the coat, and the irregular pattern is distributed throughout the entire coat. In a sable coat, there is an even distribution of dark hairs sprinkled through the coat, often with a concentration of darker hair along the back, legs and facial mask. For more information and photos of Sable or Brindle, please see their individual pages.

Sometimes differences between a sable puppy and a brindle puppy are quite obvious and othertimes they are much more subtle as you can see from the photos below.'


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