# Hi! We're new, and looking for some advice :)



## benz_909

Hello everyone!

I've got so excited once I got the email that my account was finally activated. I've been reading a few posts on here for the past couple of weeks. I'm 15, and my family and I are looking for a new friend. Well, I am specifically. I'm an animal person what can I say! So... a little bit about ourselves...my parnets as their first dog together, had a cocker spaniel. Then after my brother was born we seemed to get attached to German Shepherds. I myself have bred chinchillas in the past, which let me say was probably the best experience ever.

We live in LA currently, and it has been a bit of a struggle to find a breeder, that is reputable, and close by. We might be visiting this one breeder tomorrow, (she is expecting a litter in October) but we like to first of all meet them before meeting the cute bundles of joy and making rash decisions on the spot lol  ) It would be really helpful if you guys could reccomend us a few breeders. We found a few in the Sacramento area, even though it is a 5-6 hour drive, we don't really mind as long as we find a good breeder. 

I was first introduced to the breed in a pet store ( yes yes I know) but since we do know that 99.9% of puppies come from a puppy mill (so horrendous) we don't know the parents, or how the puppy was raised (if they have even heard some household noises, or even set foot outside for that matter) and all that, we want to find a breeder. We had first looked at a Bichon Frises but A, the breeders are just way to far away, B the close ones don't reply or aren't active and C we just seem to like over all Havanese better.

Anyways, everyone on here is like an expert, so I'm really happy to become a part of it. When we get our new friend, we will keep you all posted throughout the exciting journey. 

I also have a few questions. A very experienced Bichon breeder from up North, advised us that if we were to buy a pup (many of the havanese breeders have told us that their pups are roughs 1800) that we should have them well, breed. We thought, that since pretty much all breeders require that the pup be neutered/spayed at 6 months... so we figured that we would make a compromise or just discuss with them that we would let them choose the mate, and let them be the ones to take the pups and etc...

We really haven't given it a lot of deep thought, so again, we would really appreciate your advice. WE NEED GUIDANCE hehe 

Also, bringing up the price, we don't believe that the most expensive pup is the best one, but at the same time as long as they get proper vaccines, and tests, then we will. I mean I've heard of dogs selling for 5,000. Just asking though, what do you think about that? I mean I'm a little lost in this...I still think its a ton of money.

And lastly before anyone makes any thoughts about me being 15 and not having enough responsibility, and maturity, please don't becuase I'm quite the opposite...I'm really looking forward to taking him for walks, because I love walking, and miss it since I have to drive everywhere to get places in LA.

So sorry for the long post....but I wanted to give as much detail 

Thanks everyone and I look forward to getting to know you all!

Mercedes


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## Jill in Mich

:welcome::welcome: Mercedes!

It sounds like you're taking all of the right steps to finding the perfect puppy. You're absolutely right, you don't want a puppy from a pet store - it will be from a puppy mill (a reputable breeder would never sell their dogs through a pet shop), you won't know about socialization, health, to say nothing of the situation of the puppies parents. 

There are others who I'm sure will respond to give you ideas on breeders. Another good resource would be your local AKC Havanese organization (check akc.com). The other option is adopting a puppy from HRI (Havanese Rescue). 

Welcome to the forum and enjoy your search for the right puppy. I'm looking forward to hearing about your journey both during your search and after you get your new family member.


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## Beamer

Welcome to the forum, and good luck in finding a breeder! I bet someone from the forum that lives in your area can reccomend some good ones!
Ryan


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## davetgabby

Welcome Mercedes. Here is an article you might like. http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/how-select-good-breeder


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## Sheri

Welcome, and good luck in your search. 

Yes, Havs are expensive, but you sure want to get your dog from a reputable breeder. Have fun hunting!


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## marb42

Mercedes, welcome to the forum!!! There are a few really excellent breeders in California that regularly post on the forum (are we allowed to recommend them by name??). You can see by reading their posts how reputable they are and gain a little insight into how well they care for their pups. Good luck on finding the perfect puppy!
Gina


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## rdanielle

Hi Mercedes! Welcome to the forum! You've come to the right place as there are quite a CA breeders here on the forum 

Here is a link to the Havanese Club of America's breeders:
http://www.havanese.org/breeder-ref/69anese 
*There are a lot of reputable breeders which aren't listed, just make sure you check references & health testing.

I think most Havs from a reputable breeder range from $1800 to $2500 but then there are those out there who aren't reputable who charge that much too... 
$5,000 for a Havanese or for another breed?! I haven't heard of any Havs that go for that much.

To check parent's health testing:
www.offa.org 
http://www.vmdb.org/verify.html


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## juliav

Welcome to the forum. :wave:

Here's the link to the southern california havanse club. It's a good place to start.

http://www.socalhavs.org/


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## benz_909

Aw thanks for all the lovely warm welcomes! I wasn't specifically referring to havs going up to 5,000. But dogs from breeders can get that high. I have checked the AKC and we have emailed a few breeder, none have replied however  but I am for sure, going to visit with my family tomorrow, because we would really like to get to know the breed as adults!


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## ama0722

Welcome to the forum. Two year when I lived in LA, I went up to Sacramento and got my puppy- first time, I flew up ther, second time I drove. But there are also a lot of breeders in So Cal too. Great idea to meet breeders and their dogs. I have found with my last addition, meeting his mom, dad, and grandma. His personality is so much like theirs. So keep that in mind above color, etc. Great job not rushing in, know it is hard to do but the payoff is wonderful!

As to price, a lot of back yard breeders are on the coat tails of great breeders. I recently had a rescue who came from parents of no health testing, no showing, and was very unsocialized and the family who bought him paid the same amount that I did for my amazing dog from a great breeder. I look at the price as paying for the health testing, researching parents and blood lines, and the socializing my puppy everyday, etc. Otherwise you are really getting ripped off! 

Breeding is a lot of work and something Havanese breeders dont take lightly to just say "well I paid a bigger price tag" so I want to breed my dog once or twice. Reputable breeders will put show dogs on contract. Your dog will have to be shown, pass all health testing, and be over 2 years old before being bred. There is work to keeping an intact dog, a lot of times house training issues, etc. So it is something you probably want to do a lot more research on before you add your furfamily member. Also note a lot of breeers may see you as a future backyard breeder with those type of comments. Breeders should only be breeding the best IMHO.

Be sure to ask a lot of questions around her and if you can go meet a bunch of Havs at HCSC! Or visit a local dog show!


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## marjrc

Welcome to the forum, Mercedes! You sound responsible and mature and asking all these questions now sure beats wondering what you could have done before getting your new furbaby. Good luck in finding the breeder and dog of your choice. A good relationship with the breeder and knowing they health test (you can check at www.offa.org ) is very important.


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## auntd

Hi! I'm another newbie looking for a good Hav breeder in our area. I found one that looks promising but she's 4 hours from us & I'm going to have to drive out there to be sure. I'd be interested in posting a link to her site for some opinions from all the experts on here but I'm not sure if that is allowed? Does anyone have personal experience with a good breeder in the Charlotte, NC area? I would appreciate any advice or direction you can share! Thanks so much!


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## benz_909

Hmm I agree. Breeding is a huge huge responsibilty and shouldn't be " a thing I do on the side". Regardless, when I'm much much older, and hopefully have more expertise I will take the challenge on because I've always wanted to. We were also considering going to a dog show that is coming to LA soon (I forgot the name) in hopes of meeting some people and breeders. Also because we've just always wanted to see what it was like. 

I've prepared a long list of questions...well relativley long to ask the breeder today. I already had done a majority through email, but I've still got a few. Quite a few are about health testing vaccines, the contract (like if we could read it thoughly before we sign anything), how they're socialized and all that good stuff. Heres a few, and if you guys have any pointers, please let me know. 

What health conditions do the parents have? If any?
-What vaccines have they had (puppies)?
-What have you tested them for? Have you done any CERF testing?
-What methods of socialization do you use?
-What noises are the puppies exposed to? 
-What size and weight are the adults?
-Do you provide a gaurentee? 
-What about a contract?
-Will you be able to take him back or help us find a home in the worst circumstances?
-Are your puppies trained at all yet? What do you teach them at an early stage?
-How long have you been breeding Havanese? (A very basic one)
-How where you introduced to the breed? What made you want to show, or breed them?
-What will come with the puppy?
-Do you ship your puppies? (I would prefer to hear "no" because responsible breeders should meet their new puppy's owner first, unless they have exceptions such as if the family had already visited but moved to another state in the process things like that)

And I think a good breeder would be happy to answer them (and to see that I am asking these important questions)!

So let me know if I'm missing some things, I know I am but I can't brainstorm much right now. I'm very excited to meet her and her dogs 


Thanks again everyone!
Mercedes


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## davetgabby

good list Mercedes. You will do fine. Congrats on your eagerness to learn. Too bad so many people are not like you. For a 15 year old you are more responsible than a lot of 50 year olds.


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## krandall

auntd said:


> Hi! I'm another newbie looking for a good Hav breeder in our area. I found one that looks promising but she's 4 hours from us & I'm going to have to drive out there to be sure. I'd be interested in posting a link to her site for some opinions from all the experts on here but I'm not sure if that is allowed? Does anyone have personal experience with a good breeder in the Charlotte, NC area? I would appreciate any advice or direction you can share! Thanks so much!


I don't know about Charlotte, but there is a very, very good breeder right here on this forum who is also in N.C.... Tom & Pam King, Starborn Havanese. (do a search on him here, and you'll find lots of posts and photos. I know them not only from this forum, but from having the distinct pleasure of purchasing a puppy from them this summer. He's a wonderful puppy, and we couldn't be happier.

My trainer's comments about the way they breed, raise and socialize their puppies was, "They do everything right!". She came with me to temperament test the puppies, and her comment after that was, "You couldn't go wrong with any one of these puppies!" (of course, as far as _I'm_ concerned, Kodi is "the best"!) If I were to get another puppy in the future, I'd go back to them in a minute!


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## krandall

Hi Mercedes,

Lots of VERY good questions. Personally, I wouldn't buy a puppy of parents that had ANY known health problems... There is always the chance that any dog will have some sort of problem, but why stack the genetic deck in that direction? There isn't a lot of testing that can be done on the pups themselves, because most of the known problems in the breed don't show up until the dog is older. You want to know that the PARENTS have been fully tested, and have passed. You don't just want the breeders say so, you want proof. The results should be recorded with CERF (eyes) and OFA (joints). The puppies can (and should) have BAER testing for unilateral deafness, their hearts should be checked, and they should have a a thorough "going over" by the vet. If you want your pup to do anything more athletic than be a family pet (and possibly even then) you want to see soaped pictures of both parents and the puppy to make sure they have straight legs. Certainly this is REALLY important if you have any interest in breeding or showing.

More important than specific "methods" of socialization (I've seen puppy mill sites state that the puppies are handled by "the kids" daily) you want to see where the puppies are growing up. It should be in the middle of the household, with every-day life going on around them - not in the garage or a shed out back, no matter HOW clean (or not) their surrounding are kept. If you find a breeder who is REALLY doing their job, they will also be enriching the puppies' experience with lots of new and interesting toys and things to climb over, as well as lots and LOTS of "people time". With luck, they will have been introduced to crates, and possibly gone on a few short car rides.

You also want to meet, ideally, both parents plus any other family dogs, but CERTAINLY, at least the mother. (some breeders may have used a sire who doesn't live with or belong to them) 

It will help you A LOT with house training if the puppies have been started on this by the breeder. Do a search on this forum for Tom King's method of litter box training his puppies. There are lots of slight variations on this method, but you will have a WAY easier time if the puppy already has the idea that there are "right" and "not right" places to eliminate!

The guarantee should be part of the contract, and there MUST be a contract. Any good breeder should INSIST that the puppy or dog go back to them if, for some reason, the new owners can't keep it. Don't be fooled by "one year health guarantees". Even most puppy mills provide this, and in most cases, it just means that they will replace the puppy if something happens to it, usually with transport costs for both pups born by the new owner. Could you really return your pup if you found out there was something genetically wrong with it after 6 months? Most of us couldn't, and most genetic defects don't kill the dog; they can just lead to costly medical care. Some breeders are so secure in the health of the puppies they produce that they will agree to put the purchase price toward medical bills resulting from any genetic defect for the life of the dog. (that's how my contract is worded) 

The shipping issue has been debated here on the forum somewhat, but personally, I would not buy from a breeder who would ship a pup. I would want, at best, to go pick the pup up myself and fly back with him (as I did with Kodi) or at least, have the breeder either hand-carry the pup to meet me at the airport or help me arrange for someone else do do it. 

A couple of other questions to ask:

Do you breed other breeds? If so, how many? There are a few dedicated breeders who can manage two breeds, but beyond that, you have to wonder about the puppy mill thing again. 

Do you show your dogs? While there are some people on the forum who are very happy with pups they have bought from "pet-only" breeders, breeders who show their dogs are committing do breeding to the established standard to the best of their ability. There will always be dogs who are not quite show quality, but the breeder should be striving to produce the best dogs possible.

Your breeder should also be looking to establish a good working relationship with you. You want to feel that you can call the breeder at any time if you have questions or concerns about your puppy. (believe me, as a new puppy owner myself, they do come up!:wink For a responsible breeder, there will be NO "wrong" questions for you to ask as long as they are respectful... they will feel more comfortable sending one of their precious babies off with you if you care enough to ask!


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## DanielBMe

Welcome to the forum!

Holy Crap! From reading your email I kept thinking "Is this really a 15yr old writing this?". You definitely sound very mature and seem to be doing all the right things. Kudos to you!

Personally, I would stay away from breeding. It's expensive and takes so much time and effort. Get a puppy that you can neuter and enjoy your Hav. But you've gotten a lot of good advice here so not much more that I can add. I would add that when you meet the breeder, listen to your gut if you get a bad or strange vibe and ask lots of questions. 

Good Luck!

JMHO


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## psvzum

Wow! I wish my 28 year old was as responsible as you are at 15 : )
Welcome!!


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## Jammies

*Welcome to the forum Mercedes!:wave: It sounds like you have done quite a bit of homework and have the right questions to ask! Have fun looking for you furbaby and perhaps some breeders from your area are on the forum and would be happy to help you!

The thing we have to warn you about though, after you get your puppy...we're always crying "we want pictures!" and we do that a lot!

Again, welcome!
Debbie & Jammies
*


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## auntd

Thanks Karen! I looked on the Starborn website & plan to e-mail with Tom to find out when their next letter is due. I really appreciate the advice!!


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## ama0722

If you are in Charlotte right near there (I think!) is Lisa Workman. Last I knew she had a little boy available too! http://www.carohavhavanese.com/

You should consider joining Carolina Havanese Club. Lisa is the president. I am a member but I have been a slacker lately with going to shows. I will get better when life slows down!
http://centralcarolinahavaneseclub.tripod.com/


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## auntd

Thanks Amanda! I actually came across Lisa's website in my initial breeder search & sent her an e-mail inquiry but never heard back. I figured maybe she didn't have any puppies available right now or something. I would so love to get a white or white with apricot for my kids this fall. Oh, who am I kidding...the dog is for me...they might think it's theirs but it's really for me! I've wanted a Hav for years! =) Thanks for the link to the Carolina Hav Club - I'm going to check it out now! Love the pic of your babies too....


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## benz_909

urgh silly me. I thought i had replied and told you all about the visit already. 

im very tired 

so the breeder was really sweet, and so were her dogs. She was very knowledgeable, and had medical documentation which is always a 4 thumbs up. My father and I concluded however, that when looking for a breeder, you don't need to get your pup from the first breeder you meet. You may go back to them, but you should always venture out and have some contrast. We also would've like if she had put some more effort into our visit. I know it sounds anal, but she made it so casual , which is nice, but her pups are $1,800 and she didn't even bother to bathe her doggies. 

Again, I sound anal, but I want to make the best decision possible. But really the most important part is the health of the puppies. 

So any more recommendations? I've checked out all already from the AKC, and really there was only 3 in California, and we've emailed one of them a few weeks ago, and we're eagerly waiting their reply.

Thanks everyone for the really warm welcomes. This is such a friendly forum!!


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## karin117

Hi
I just need to comment on the bath thing...I bath my dogs regulary, groom A LOT, but I do not bath "special" for visitor. I bath for a scedual and to fit my show planes...

I have a lot of people who come and visit me and my dogs...for different reasons...I wellcome them but I can NOT make my grooming scedual from the visitors...I have to much thought in it for that...

BUT sometimes the visitors and i bath together...or groom....

Maby this do not apply to your visit...just a thought...


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## Scooter's Family

I wouldn't be too concerned that the dogs weren't bathed, you'll see that bathing and grooming takes a lot of time! Just think of how many visits the breeder could have over time, they'd be bathing all the time! I would be more concerned with the environment the puppies are being raised in.
You're doing a great research job!


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## ama0722

Good for you with taking your time. It is a long investment so why not take your time, meet a bunch of breeders and decide what is the right breeder and pup for you and your family.

I love my Bellatak Neezer but she doesn't have any puppies right now. But I will say good things come to those who wait. http://bellahavanese.com/ I do have to agree about grooming though- dogs get dirty fast. I try to bath mine weekly but I live in the woods and they play, etc. So if you popped into my house at any point, I might have scruffy hounds! At the same token, the dogs should look well taken care of.

I also stress to everyone check health testing before you meet cute puppies! I fall in love with everything and then think secondly!

BTW, I think I need to lie and say I have puppies and get people over to help groom and bath my dogs... that sounds like a pretty good idea!!!


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## ama0722

Aunt- just remember you might get a white even if you start with a totally different color  A lot of breeders will be able to tell you the color of the dog from lineage and the puppy as it is older. I have one that totally changed color and one that didn't change anything!


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## karin117

OHHH I would LOVE if it was me getting help to do grooming...NO this is me showing, giving advice...let people know what they are given them self in too...and give pointers to make the grooming more easy...

Perhaps I should start to go the other way around...NOOO...I am soo fuzzy on my dogs coats...

Both me and my dogs love to have visitors and talk and feel havanese:blabla:


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## carohav

Gosh I'm sorry I didn't respond to your email. My inbox is a spam magnet and I overlook important emails in all the clutter!! I sent you a private message, at least I hope I did, with my phone number 

Lisa


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## Perugina

auntd said:


> I would so love to get a white or white with apricot for my kids this fall. Oh, who am I kidding...the dog is for me...they might think it's theirs but it's really for me! I've wanted a Hav for years! =)


LOL! That's how we(I) got Sophie...for my daughter's 16th bd present *cough*:biggrin1:


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## auntd

LOL! Glad I'm not the only one... 

Lisa, thanks for your message! I sent you a private message back - I think. Still learning my way around!


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## BeverlyA

Hey Lisa, is it this little guy? I want him!!!


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## marjrc

Back down, Beverly, you have enough Neezers for a while.  LOL


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## BeverlyA

LOL, Marj, when it comes to the color *red *all bets are off!

Beverly


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## carohav

marjrc said:


> Back down, Beverly, you have enough Neezers for a while.  LOL


Enough? I didn't know such a thing was possible!!!


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## carohav

BeverlyA said:


> Hey Lisa, is it this little guy? I want him!!!


That is Lewis! He's my girl Charlotte's son, owned and loved by Kathy Ambler. He still loves grandma tho


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## Perugina

carohav said:


> That is Lewis! He's my girl Charlotte's son, owned and loved by Kathy Ambler. He still loves grandma tho


I got to meet Kathy and Lewis this weekend at the W. MI Harvest Cluster Show. What a cutie patootie!


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## carohav

Oh, I'm so excited that you met my baby!! Couldn't you have just eaten him with a spoon?? I was so proud that he was winners all three days, it's a grandma's dream :bounce:


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