# hobby/backyard breeders



## TrishK (Nov 29, 2010)

At the risk of setting off the ire of many of you, I have a question that I'm sure I can't be the only one wishing an answer to. Now please understand that I am not trying to be ignorant or dumb, but I don't know any breeders, professional, backyard, hobby or otherwise and I'm not referring to puppy mills, the owners of which should most certainly rot in h... I am new to 'the dog world' and my question is genuine. My question is this...why are BYB/hobby breeders frowned upon? Are they doing something wrong or irresponsible or is it because their dogs are not show quality or ??? Thanks.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I think it's a question of whether or not they know what they're doing. They might be well meaning, but if they breed just to see those cute puppies or to make some extra money, they're not checking the health or characteristics of the dogs they're mating. They may, accidentally or not, be breeding in undesirable characteristics or health problems.

But I'm sure you'll get better answers from others on here. They also likely won't be as careful about where their puppies wind up, which could open another whole can of worms and make for a lot of misery for more animals in this world.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

There's a pretty big difference between Back Yard Breeders and Hobby breeders. Back Yard Breeders are just trying to make money by investing the least amount into it. Your luck of the draw with what you get from them in a puppy is as good as their luck in putting dogs together and raising puppies.

Hobby breeders are in it because they love doing it and make every effort to produce only the best possible, without worrying about trying to make a profit. For instance, we qualify as Hobby breeders (according to the IRS), since we don't really make money doing it, but we are far from being back yard breeders.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Hobby breeders are the good guys They breed to better the breed.

Most backyard breeders don't care about health, temperament, conformation, socialization etc.

Not a bad question.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

To me--another thing would be that a back yard breeder really has limited knowledge or zero knowledge of genetics and so therefore only put together 2 dogs because they are a male and a female. To be what I would call a "reputable breeder"--you would have show quality dogs that have been proven in the show ring to be the best in conformation. If these dogs are not up to the standard they should not be bred (in my opinion)...then there is generations of dogs that should be trackable so you can do some checking on health issues etc. The most important to me would be health testing.If a person does not do all health testing and have desirable results,why buy? You want the healthiest,prettiest and best temperment you can buy for your money,don't you? 

Health testing is NOT--saying my dogs see a vet,or my vet says it is okay to breed. :nono:


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## TrishK (Nov 29, 2010)

OIC. Thank you all. This is interesting and informative. See, I had no inkling that the two were different things even, and Tom, I would have said definitely that you are a professional breeder, based on looking at your website and how long you have been breeding and showing. I mean, you certainly take your dogs seriously and this is clearly not just a whim for you. I imagine that by the time all the vet bills are paid and all the testing and paperwork, etc. is done, it's not necessarily a lucrative business. Probably a lot of people, myself included, as laypersons really don't have a clue what all goes into breeding healthy animals.
It's so hard to know, isn't it, who is really doing what and what their real intentions are. I guess that forums like these are really good for that...to weed out the good from the bad and to get good advice from people such as yourselves who are 'in the know'.
I think too that pictures of the dogs can speak volumes. I've seen pics on Kijiji and the poor pups just don't look happy, don't look well kept, I mean it seems they haven't seen a brush in a month, although the write up by the breeder says all the right things, but just looking at the pics gives me a bad feeling. Anyway, thanks for helping me out and explaining stuff.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

My question is their enough good hobbie Havanese breeders to keep up with the supply and demand? for the fast growing popular breed? I for one would love to become a breeder not for the money I just would like to do it. I would wait in tell Maddie was old enough to be health tested. Most of the back yard breeders will not give full papers because they feel like their would be competition and they would not sell as many. Most charge a lot less for the puppys. And who knows what the next person is going to do. The mixed Havanese "designer dogs are getting very popular. They do not come with pappers at all and the price is way up their. I guess what I am trying to say is not everyone who wants to become a breeder should have to have champions to have healthy quality puppys. And it is very hard to find good breeders who will sell with full papers. Maybe their could be contracts written That only after the two year health test would the breeder allow full papers.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Suzi said:


> My question is their enough good hobbie Havanese breeders to keep up with the supply and demand? for the fast growing popular breed? I for one would love to become a breeder not for the money I just would like to do it. I would wait in tell Maddie was old enough to be health tested. Most of the back yard breeders will not give full papers because they feel like their would be competition and they would not sell as many. Most charge a lot less for the puppys. And who knows what the next person is going to do. The mixed Havanese "designer dogs are getting very popular. They do not come with pappers at all and the price is way up their. I guess what I am trying to say is not everyone who wants to become a breeder should have to have champions to have healthy quality puppys. And it is very hard to find good breeders who will sell with full papers. Maybe their could be contracts written That only after the two year health test would the breeder allow full papers.


The reason good breeders not only health test but also show, is to better the breed. That means showing the dog to make sure the conformation/ temperament is correct. If you don't show, and just put 2 havanese together, generations down the road the offspring could look and act so different from the Hav's we know and love.

A good breeder won't give full registration, unless certain guidelines are followed, health testing and showing just to name 2. If they did, could you image all the mixed Hav's and Hav's in puppymills


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Health testing means they check the parents for several different criteria and you can look them up and see if the parents have been tested. I can't think what the details are off the top of my head but I know Tom could tell you what specifics to look for in health testing and how to find out.


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## dbeech (Jun 16, 2009)

Many hobby breeders are also heavily involved in showing their dogs. My dog came from a hobby breeder that has a litter every couple of years with their dogs that have excelled on the show circuit. They are obsessed with bettering the breed. They do every health test out there and post the results. I think health testing is the easiest way to differentiate a backyard breeder from a hobby breeder. 

Some of the health tests that should be done are cerf, hips, patellas, elbows, baer and chic#.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I think there are many people that don't understand why back yard breeding is bad. It is another story for people who buy a small popular breed and it has all kinds of health problems. Currently I am considering another shih tzu my first one was for showing..I did not like showing much...its a whole lot of work and sometimes not fun. Agility is fun you get to play and bond with your dog. Mr. Singh lived 18 yrs and had no health problems..ever. My second shih was a rescue...he is the one that broke my heart. His problems were all do to heredity. So now in my search for shih tzu's its hard to tell the good breeders from those with fake pictures claiming to have some of the same dogs or dogs from great breeders that are fakes. For me I want to hedge my chances of getting a dog that will have tons of health problems. Breeders study and know there breed and they also realize that they could lose a very nice bitch in the process of having puppies.


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## TrishK (Nov 29, 2010)

This is all very informative. Thanks guys. I guess one really needs to almost be a detective to figure out who is on the up and up and who's not. Sometimes it's easy though. I had an offer yesterday from a "breeder" that offered me different prices for the same dogs dependent on if I wanted the registration papers or not. Now, it's my understanding that in Canada if a dog is a purebred dog then it MUST come with its papers by law. (Please correct me here if I am wrong). So to me, this screams run. :bolt:


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