# Bladder Stone



## Dana N (Jan 27, 2011)

Hi Everyone,

I'm new here and have the sweetest Hav girl who is almost four yrs old. In trying to take really good care of her, I have tried to buy good dog food. She has a wonderful coat but after switching to Royal Canine small dog, picky eater variety, she developed a huge bladder stone which formed from urine which not acid enough. She had to have bladder surgery to remove it. We are now on a Hills Urinary Health food from the vet. Piper's urine is quite dark at times and she is not a big water drinker. We have well water. Got any ideas for us. I sure don't want my little to go through that again. Thanks so much. Dana N


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I don't know if it was food that caused your pup's problem or if she just had a predisposition in that direction. I DO know that Hill's foods are not rated highly from a nutritional perspective.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

HI~
I have dealt with stones in the past- no fun at all.
My suggestion would be to get bottled water for her to drink- and maybe add canned food to her kibble -some canned can be almost 80% water which will help with her water intake. If she isn't drinking enough than there is a good chance the stones could come back-


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I thought the same thing, about adding canned food to up her water intake.

ps. Hi Katie!!:hug:


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## Dana N (Jan 27, 2011)

Putting her on canned food was also a vet suggestion but it's so much harder to travel. Sounds a bit selfish now that I think of it but I was also given a dry food option. Would it work to add a little water to the top of the dry food? What about some chicken stock? I think I will try the bottled water idea. It just makes sense that the ph may not be the same among all water samples. Thanks, everyone. Dana


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## Dana N (Jan 27, 2011)

I also remember a few years ago about someone remarking about a dog food that caused stones. I think it was Royal Canine but, of course, the name didn't come to mind until after the stone. Does anyone remember this? Dana


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Dana, do you travel a lot? Does she go with you? That could be a reason she drinks so little.
Also, about a year ago I added extra water dishes around the house. I'm amazed at how much more they drink when it's just more available.
Good luck!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

My beasties love the water fountain bowls. I got the Drinkwell 'Big Dog' drinking fountain 3-4 years ago for my two Aussies. Now it is just one Aussie and Jack but I have to fill it every two-three days still. The cats love it too. I think the trickling sounds remind them to drink (and pee...)

Amazon.com: Drinkwell Big-Dog Pet Fountain: Home & Garden


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## Miss Paige (Apr 4, 2008)

Switch to distilled water-watch the protein level of the canned food-a lot of can food has over 25-30% protein level even if the can says 8%-mix low oxalate foods (human vegs) with the canned food or the kibble which ever one you decide to feed. Make sure the human food you are feeding is salt free-you don't have to do home cooked meals but adding vegs cuts the protein level. 

There is a great yahoo group that will help with the different types of low oxalate food-green beans-cauliflower-broccoli-black eyed peas are just a few I can think of. If you want the yahoo group info just PM me & I will get it for you.

Good Luck-
Pat (humom to)
Miss Paige
Mr Roman
Ms Tease (for a while)
Ms Frannie (my true angel girl)


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## LuckyOne (Sep 3, 2009)

mellowbo said:


> Dana, do you travel a lot? Does she go with you? That could be a reason she drinks so little.
> Also, about a year ago I added extra water dishes around the house. I'm amazed at how much more they drink when it's just more available.
> Good luck!


I have a water dish in the kitchen, in their pen and outside. They love to drink outside which is great because they don't drip water from their beards. Good luck to your pup. You might want to check out the dog food a site that rates them. Can't think of it right now. Will check and come back.


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## Ninja (Nov 1, 2010)

Hello Dana and welcome 

I'm sorry to hear about your little one's trouble. Maybe you could try giving her ice as a "treat". I tried this a few times and most dogs usually love it.


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

I agree with the suggestions about water intake. I just wanted to share that years ago I had a year old Sheltie that had bladder stones. She was operated on at the University of Tennessee vet hospital that had just opened. The stones were really big. I didn't change anything about her eating or give her special water (got our well water). She never developed any more and lived to be 16. None of our other dogs have developed them either. By the way, the vet school was so new this was the first bladder stone surgery and the vet who performed it, who was wonderful as far as "bedside manner" goes, wound up being the head of the place and retired a few years ago. My regular vet still often consults with him.


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## Miss Paige (Apr 4, 2008)

It also depends on the type of bladder stones they have-if it's oxalate stones they will come back-the sutrivite (sorry about the spelling) once they are removed they usually don't recur. 

Pat (humom to)
Miss Paige
Mr Roman
Ms Tease (for a while)
Ms Frannie (my true angel girl)


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

"A greater incidence of bladder diseases and stones/crystals in animals eating dry food is one
result. An increasing number of American Veterinary Medical Association members, including
board-certified veterinary nutritionists, are now strongly recommending the feeding of canned
food only instead of dry kibble to cats, but the issue has not been officially addressed in dogs".

Moistening kibble will also help if food and or lack of water is indeed the culprit. Dogs eating kibble don't instinctively know to drink enough water.


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

Interesting that I come here to find this thread...Rico was diagnosed with calcium oxalate bladder stones today (two of them). He's having surgery tomorrow to remove them. We talked alot about diet and how to slow the return. He eats Fromm's Sweet Potato and Duck formula, exclusively, but the vet talked about a veggie diet. He's also going to have us add POTASSIUM CITRATE to his food.

Any recommendations for diet or anything else I should know? All advice and help are appreciated.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I am so sorry to read this. Your litttle baby is just not getting any breaks. This makes me sad, I do believe he will do fine in the surgery. I will be thinking about you both. I know from my own experience it hurts when our pups have troubles. I had a Husky who was on a vegetarian diet he did fine. Again this was a dry food diet. Sometimes when one of my sister in laws would visit they would make him a nice lentil dish. I hope Rico has an easy surgery and comes home quick. Hugs


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

Thank you so much, Magpie. The part I don't like is that Rico could be at the vet's over the weekend. Doc said they sometimes keep them up to 3 days, depending on how they do. So I'm hoping Rico does very well!


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

Rico came home today from his cystotomy. The stones have been sent to a lab to determine the exact makeup, but the vet believes they are most likely oxalate. he also found mineralization in one of his kidneys. I guess it's a good thing we discovered all this early.

So plenty of water, water, water. I'm "floating" his dry kibble for now and as soon as we get the results from the lab we'll figure out if he should add in the potassium citrate. Our vet also tells me that early research suggests that profilactic(sp) use of an antibiotic can stop these stones from forming. 

At least everyone's home and do OK!


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

Dana- someone somewhere mentioned making beef-sicles to entice a dog to drink. You freeze beef broth in an ice cube tray and add the cubes to a water bowl. The smell of the beef makes the dog want to drink! It might help.......I added enough hot water to Rico's kibble to make a nice sloppy stew. He gobbled it up today!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

iluvhavs said:


> Dana- someone somewhere mentioned making beef-sicles to entice a dog to drink. You freeze beef broth in an ice cube tray and add the cubes to a water bowl. The smell of the beef makes the dog want to drink! It might help.......I added enough hot water to Rico's kibble to make a nice sloppy stew. He gobbled it up today!


With issues like this ,it might be also benefitial to consult with a dog nutritionist. Sabine , at Better Dog Care is great with issues like this. Here's her main site and the link to her consultation site is there also. Very reasonable. http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main


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## Dana N (Jan 27, 2011)

Extra water dishes around the house are amazingly helpful so far. Now, I need to look into the dog food issue. Piper likes vegetables, especially raw carrots! She tosses them in the air, throws them around with a snap of her neck, sometimes rolls on them first but always eats them with loud crunching and eyes closed, in pure delight. She is the funniest little dog I've ever had and I sure want to keep her healthy! I appreciate all your help. I'm having some technical difficulty replying to messages so I hope all of you can see this. I find this site difficult to get around in. Thanks so much everyone! Dana


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## Dana N (Jan 27, 2011)

Rory,

I hope your little furby did well with his surgery. Piper's was home in the same day but she was loopy!!!! I really had to watch her. I would have sent well wishes sooner but did not find your email and half the time can't find my own post. This is a nice but complicated forum. Now I see there are directions to help users. It must be a common occurance! Dana


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## danak (Jun 17, 2007)

*bladder stones*

This is very interesting. I had a terrier mix, before my two little Havs. He had struvite, operated, then a year later he had to have another surgery for another stone.
What I've just read about the possibility of kibble being a culprit is intriguing. My terrier lived on dry kibble as I had been told it was the best.

I feed my Havs, Olie and Itsy 95%kibble and 5% canned to make them eat the kibble.

Welcome Dana,

Dana


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

I have a question for anyone who has experiemce with bladder/kidney stones. Rico goes back to the vet on Saturday to have the stitches removed and get the results of his biopsy. The vet woarned me that he would fell as though he had to go frequently and to make him go every 2 hours because the bladder had been stitched and made smaller. It will take a while for him to stretch back out.

However......I am finding that he has a decent urine stream the first time, then will try to go 5 - 9 more times in the same trip. Only drops or nothing come out. He obviously has the sensation that he has to go. I know this is a symptom of a bladder stone or kidney problems, but could it also be because of the surgery? Dana, did Piper have this problem after her surgery?


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Rory, I am happy to hear Rico is doing better. I don't know if it happens in dogs but when people have bladder surgery after they go they still feel like they need to go! I hope its all good news tomorrow.


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