# Kodi's Pyoderma



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Well, Kodi got a reprieve from his neutering surgery for a few days... He was supposed to be neutered last Thursday, but on Monday, (almost exactly two weeks after his long-acting antibiotic shot) the Pyoderma came back. So it was back to the vet again, where she gave him another shot, and gave me some antibacterial wipes to use on any new bumps that form. (ha! try THAT on a long-haired dog!!!)

She said (and I agree completely) that she didn't want to take a chance of cutting into skin with an active infection and spreading it, so his surgery was postponed until this coming Thursday. Like the last time, withing 2 days of being on the antibiotics, the bumps were receding, and are now just about gone. She said it's not at all uncommon for them to need to be treated for more than 2 weeks to completely clear it, so she was unconcerned.

The other frustrating part is that the ticks are still SO-O-O bad that it's hard to tell what bumps are left from tick bites, and what could be Pyoderma. His head has so many bumps that we've started to call him "lumpy"... he seems to have a strong reaction to tick bites, poor thing.

The vet had me switch him from Frontline to Advantix. I guess that Frontline just kills the ticks, but it can take 24 hours to kill them, during which time, they have probably already bitten the dog. I guess that the idea is that it is unlikely that they will pass a disease to the dog if they aren't attached for more than 24 hrs. Advantix actually has a tick repellent in it, so that hopefully they don't even TRY to attach themselves to the dog. I only put it on him on Friday, so I'm not sure yet how well it's working. There was another woman in the vet's office when I was exchanging the Frontline for the Advantix, and she said she'd done the same thing a couple of weeks ago, and it's really helped.

In the mean time, I'm trying to keep him out of wooded areas as much as possible, but that's easier said than done. He had an accident in the house the other day for the first time in a LONG time. I'm sure that the problem is that his favorite poop spot is on the wooded path around our property, and I've been trying to get him to go somewhere closer to the house. He doesn't mind peeing in his litter box, but only seems willing to poop in it when the weather outside is terrible. And even just out in the yard or even on walks on the street, he's still picking them up. Some guys are chick magnets, I've got myself a tick magnet!<g> In fairness, I've pulled lots off the cat too, so it's not JUST him. We've lived here for over 20 years and we've NEVER had such a bad tick season.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Oh Karen, I am so sorry to hear that it came back. But glad your vet is unconcerned. IHT! I have not seen any on the boys this fall...but the spring they were everywhere. I wonder if the garlic spray we used this summer stopped the cycle. 

Just a thought about your litter box...Jasper would not use the same tray for pee and poop... we added another tray and problem solved. (he did eventually decide outdoors is best and like Kodi must find the perfect spot even in the foulest of weather)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi Missy,

Kodi already has two litter boxes... one in his pen, and another in the kitchen, so I'm not sure I want to add a third. He won't poop in the one in his pen unless there is something REALLY urgent... like before we realized his tummy doesn't do well with beef, even in the form of bully sticks or small treats.<g> He won't poop even in the kitchen one, unless it is impeccably clean. So I'm really careful to remove any wet litter as soon as I see it. Even then, he really doesn't WANT to use it to poop. On a really rainy day, if I see him moseying around looking like he needs to go, I have to TAKE him to the box and tell him "go poop". Then he looks at me like a martyr, but will dutifully make his circles and poop in the box.<g> But it is CLEARLY not a popular choice. He looks like he's being punished, (how DO they manage to look so pathetic!?!) no matter how much of a "party" I make it for having done a good job!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

LOL! what a character these little ones are. yeah don't add a third.


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## irishnproud2b (Jan 13, 2009)

My Duffy get that bacterial thing all the time. My vet prescribed capsules of an antibiotic that I give him with Pill Pouches. This time it did not completely clear up, so we'll be going to the vet. Also, when he get antibiotics, he immediately gets a yeast infection in his ear, usually his left. I no sooner get that cleared up and back come the bumps and scabs! Ugh! :Cry:


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## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear that this is back 

I do want to say that this Thursday seems to soon to plan on the surgery,tho. Seems to me that you guys would want to make sure it stayed cleared up first and not assume it will be gone by Thursday???? 

Hope he gets and stays better!!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Ticks scare me, I can't imagine having so many that you have to keep getting them off the dog and cat! (I can't figure out how you even GET them off!) Yikes! I hope the Advantage works! I know when I headed to the mountains for vacation with Tucker that is what the vet recommended. We never did have a tick, but may have just been lucky.

I hope Kodi gets totally well with this antibiotic treatment!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

irishnproud2b said:


> My Duffy get that bacterial thing all the time. My vet prescribed capsules of an antibiotic that I give him with Pill Pouches. This time it did not completely clear up, so we'll be going to the vet. Also, when he get antibiotics, he immediately gets a yeast infection in his ear, usually his left. I no sooner get that cleared up and back come the bumps and scabs! Ugh! :Cry:


He could have been given pills, but the antibiotic of choice for this infection (cephalosporin) is one I am violently allergic to. By giving him one long acting shot that lasts for two weeks, we were able to avoid me having to handle it at all.

Fortunately, there has been no sign of a yeast infection, but I have ear drops for him in case it becomes a problem.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I'm so sorry you're having so many problems. Please keep an eye on Kodi on the Advantix, though. A few of us have had problems with Advantix and some dogs react poorly to it. Kubrick had muscle spasms on it, so I took him off of it and back on the Frontline. I hope Kodi feels better soon!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Chasza said:


> I am so sorry to hear that this is back
> 
> I do want to say that this Thursday seems to soon to plan on the surgery,tho. Seems to me that you guys would want to make sure it stayed cleared up first and not assume it will be gone by Thursday????
> 
> Hope he gets and stays better!!


The vet seemed to think it was safe because he would already be on the antibiotics, and will be protected by them for another week. If he has any sign of the Pyoderma, they won't do the surgery.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sheri said:


> Ticks scare me, I can't imagine having so many that you have to keep getting them off the dog and cat! (I can't figure out how you even GET them off!) Yikes! I hope the Advantage works! I know when I headed to the mountains for vacation with Tucker that is what the vet recommended. We never did have a tick, but may have just been lucky.
> 
> I hope Kodi gets totally well with this antibiotic treatment!!


Well, most of them haven't even attached yet when I take them off... they are just crawling around on his fur. The problem is his black head, where they are MUCH harder to see. It's really not that hard to remove them even once they are attached. Usually, you can just grab them with your fingernails and pull them out. Really tiny ones, like the deer ticks are harder to get ahold of. For those, I use this little plastic pronged tool from the vet's office. You slide the prongs on either side of the tick and then twist it off.

We live on a farm with woods all around, and lots of deer and coyote in the woods. It's pretty much perfect tick territory, but this year is much worse than most.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lina said:


> I'm so sorry you're having so many problems. Please keep an eye on Kodi on the Advantix, though. A few of us have had problems with Advantix and some dogs react poorly to it. Kubrick had muscle spasms on it, so I took him off of it and back on the Frontline. I hope Kodi feels better soon!


Thanks for the warning! That doesn't sound good at all. OTOH, short of keeping him in the house all day, I've got to find some way of protecting him from the ticks... they just carry way too many diseases.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Poor little guy. Have you considered any more natural treatment for ticks and fleas? I would be concerned using Advantix on a dog with a skin condition like that. It just seems like that might set it off further and might be the reason it isn't clearing up? I have heard about a lot of havs having reactions to flea medications. I know it is hard battle with the ticks in the woods as our house backs up to woods too. That is one reason I do the apple cider vinegar rinse each week. We had our first frost here so things have slowed down thank goodness.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Sorry to hear about Kodi's problem, Karin. I dont' know how you can write so nonchalantly about finding and pulling ticks. OMG, I'd FREAK out!!!! As much as I complain about having such a tiny yard with neighbors all around me and wanting to live "out in the country", whenever I read about tick and flea issues, I change my mind! LOL I suppose you get used to it. Thankfully, it's not something you deal with all the time, just that this time is really bad. Poor little guy.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Correction, it is Revolution that Tucker is on.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ama0722 said:


> Poor little guy. Have you considered any more natural treatment for ticks and fleas? I would be concerned using Advantix on a dog with a skin condition like that. It just seems like that might set it off further and might be the reason it isn't clearing up? I have heard about a lot of havs having reactions to flea medications. I know it is hard battle with the ticks in the woods as our house backs up to woods too. That is one reason I do the apple cider vinegar rinse each week. We had our first frost here so things have slowed down thank goodness.


Well, according to the vet,(and a couple of vet friends I cross-checked with) Pyoderma isn't a reaction, but an infection. So I don't think he could have gotten it from the flea and tick stuff. And he definitely didn't get it from Advantix, because I was using Frontline when he got it. You put the flea and tick stuff up behind their shoulders, where there is no Pyoderma... that is all between his legs and in his groin area, so it's not going on any broken or irritated skin.

I've never heard of doing cider vinegar rinses, but I'm game, and he gets bathed weekly anyway... how much vinegar do you add to the water? Do they smell bad afterwards?

Unfortunately, we've had several frosts and it doesn't seem to be slowing the ticks down noticeably. (Thank heavens the mosquitoes are gone though!<g>)

The good news is that it doesn't seem to bother him at all... he's not itchy.


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## irishnproud2b (Jan 13, 2009)

I had my 2 on Advantix and they would act weird after I applied it (would spit up a little, not eat for a day, be sedentary.) After the 4th month of using it, they landed in the vet hospital for 3 days and nights. At first we didn't know what caused it - diarhea and vomitting that I could not get to stop. Our vet was afraid they'd get dehydrated so admitted them. It was over Christmas last year. There is no proof that it was the Advantix, but in searching this forum for answers I found similar complaints. I switched to Frontline Plus on the advice of people here on the forum and they've not had that since.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

marjrc said:


> Sorry to hear about Kodi's problem, Karin. I dont' know how you can write so nonchalantly about finding and pulling ticks. OMG, I'd FREAK out!!!! As much as I complain about having such a tiny yard with neighbors all around me and wanting to live "out in the country", whenever I read about tick and flea issues, I change my mind! LOL I suppose you get used to it. Thankfully, it's not something you deal with all the time, just that this time is really bad. Poor little guy.


You REALLY wouldn't have liked it when, several years ago, I was out riding with a friend and our horses must have gone through a nest of ticks. We got home and fund their legs literally crawling with them. We pulled close to 150 ticks off the two of them that day. :fear:

There are down-sides to living in the sticks (though we're really in a fairly suburban area... we just have a little pocket of farm land and woods around us) but as far as I'm concerned, the positives far outweigh the negatives!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

irishnproud2b said:


> I had my 2 on Advantix and they would act weird after I applied it (would spit up a little, not eat for a day, be sedentary.) After the 4th month of using it, they landed in the vet hospital for 3 days and nights. At first we didn't know what caused it - diarhea and vomitting that I could not get to stop. Our vet was afraid they'd get dehydrated so admitted them. It was over Christmas last year. There is no proof that it was the Advantix, but in searching this forum for answers I found similar complaints. I switched to Frontline Plus on the advice of people here on the forum and they've not had that since.


The problem is that the Frontline was doing NOTHING, so we have to try SOMETHING else...


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## irishnproud2b (Jan 13, 2009)

I don't blame you for trying whatever will work.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

krandall said:


> We pulled close to 150 ticks off the two of them that day. :fear:


Ewwww!! Makes me cringe just to hear about it!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sheri said:


> Ewwww!! Makes me cringe just to hear about it!!


I have to say, THAT made ME cringe too!!!<g>


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Karen I use to use K9 Advantix on Riley because we trained in an area with lots of ticks with no issues. Once I read all the problems others were having with it I decided to try Frontline, Riley was itching like crazy and got a bald spot where I applied the frontilne so I refuse to use it anymore. Like people each dog will respond different to different things.
This year I have been doing the apple cider vinegar rinse after each bath and have had great luck with it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Leeann said:


> Karen I use to use K9 Advantix on Riley because we trained in an area with lots of ticks with no issues. Once I read all the problems others were having with it I decided to try Frontline, Riley was itching like crazy and got a bald spot where I applied the frontilne so I refuse to use it anymore. Like people each dog will respond different to different things.
> This year I have been doing the apple cider vinegar rinse after each bath and have had great luck with it.


I'm glad to hear that Riley was fine with the Advantix... So far Kodi certainly hasn't had any negative reaction to it. OTOH, if a simple vinegar rinse will do the trick, that would be awesome!

I have to say that either the tick plague is waning, or the Advantix does do a better job than the Frontline. I only found two ticks on him today.


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## irishnproud2b (Jan 13, 2009)

ama0722 said:


> Poor little guy. Have you considered any more natural treatment for ticks and fleas? I would be concerned using Advantix on a dog with a skin condition like that. It just seems like that might set it off further and might be the reason it isn't clearing up? I have heard about a lot of havs having reactions to flea medications. I know it is hard battle with the ticks in the woods as our house backs up to woods too. That is one reason I do the apple cider vinegar rinse each week. We had our first frost here so things have slowed down thank goodness.


Amanda and Leeann - could you tell me if there is water in the vinegar rinse? How much? What's the ratio? Thank you!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I just put in a about 1/4 of a cup to a gallon of water for the final rinse and then leave it on- dont further rinse it off. I havent been using the meds in over a year now and I haven't had an issue with fleas. Dash did get a few ticks this year but we moved to a wooded subdivision. But it does work like a charm. 

Some will also say diet is very important with this as well. I haven't had to go this far yet but a friend adds garlic to her dogs diet (note this is in small amounts cause large amounts can be harmful).


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## irishnproud2b (Jan 13, 2009)

Thank you! My Havs are fine, but my sister is struggling with her dogs and the house is infested! Yipes!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Oh my, Karen, I can't imagine dealing with that many ticks!! :Cry: I do agree, that the pros must far outweigh the cons, living in a more quiet, rural setting. Good to hear about the vinegar rinse! 

Yikes, Kathleen! An infested house is my greatest fear!! Bad enough, we are infested with teens and pets. I don't need bugs to add to it!!


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## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

I have two questions, please.

One, I didn't catch whether you could use either white vinegar or if it had to be the apple cider type.

Two, Amanda says she does this weekly. Do you think it would work to rinse weekly without getting baths? I bathe mine very rarely.

My girl (non-hav) has severe flea dermatitis, so I would love, love, love, love, love, love it if this helped the fleas not to bite her in the first place!!!

Thanks, 

Lynn


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

My German Shepherd gets deep pyoderma's all the time...we have to have her on antibitotics for like 6-8 weeks...if we don't, it comes right back. 
Hope this clears it up for him!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Lynn- you could always try. I know some put it in a spray bottle and mist their dogs. My dogs just get dirty with the woods and agility outdoors on the clay. It has been 6 days and with all the rain he needs a bath already


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## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

Thanks, Amanda. Don't know why I didn't think about spraying them with it -- I have a spray bottle of vinegar to clean the kitchen counters, and one for the floors after doggie oops....but didn't think about spraying their coat. I will dilute it much more for spraying on them.

I'm not saying mine couldn't use more frequent baths  
.....I understand about the agility and clay and being dirty.......my white dog is constantly digging in the dirt and has to have leg/paw cleanup frequently. I imagine your dogs have a blast and it's worth the clean-up time


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