# Growling and resistance



## Suuske747 (May 9, 2007)

In the Problems with Puppy thread some ppl said to turn the hav over on its back when growling to demand submissive behaviour..... 
Well, Sierra is very submissive....except when I brush her or want to cut her nails......when I brush her she'll grunt in discontent....she'll ly down on command but be grunting at the same time.....but she lets me...

When wanting to cut her nails, that's a real disaster.....she'll really growl and carefully pull her upper lip a little, the more I hold her down and tell her "NO" the louder she'll growl, it'll really become a contest....I'll carefully hold her muzzle, and be so firm with her....the more I am, the more she'll resist...it's amazing.....
today we needed 3 ppl to hold her while the vet tried to cut her front paw nails.....I am full of scratches and she snapped at my partner....She becomes a completly different dog when wanting to cut her nails...really bizar.....she goes in complete panic.....

I guess I am to blame, as I miscut the first time 2 nails, bled like mad.....I miscut because she didn't like it to start with and she kept twitching and pulling back.....it must have hurt so badly......and she must have remembered....

When I want to trim her paws, she'll first resist a bit, but when she realises I am not doing her nails, she'll let me trim her paws, but will show that she doesn't agree and is keeping a close eye on me hahaha

My breeder said to give up the fight with the nails, as it won't do any good to the relationship we have....she'll not trust me....as she already runs when she sees me take the brush.....when I call her, she'll reluctantly come up to me and lie down on her side without me saying it, but she'll grunt......

We call her grunt-monster.....you know the green monster from sesame street who's always in a bad mood....

So have you guys got any experience similar to mine?

The thing is, things like plucking her ear-hair is no problem, other dogs yelp and such,....but Sierra not....she'll shake her head and let me continue....

PS I have tried all kinds of rewards and such, even just one nail a day or so...doesn't matter, it'll be a fight...

And don't get me wrong, she is a submissive, happy funny social dog, as you have seen in the many vids here....it's just the nails and the brushing......mainly nails....with the brushing I just ignore her sounds of discontent..and keep brushing...and that works......
when I am done brushing and say "ready, oh you're beautiful" she'll be bouncing around the room!! So funny!!!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Lily growls and grunts at everything!! It is her way of communicating. She growls/boofs for food, water, to go outside, when you move her when she is sleeping, just to talk to you. My girlfriend always thinks she is being mean, but honestly she is just communicating with us. She grunts & growls when I brush her, but I just keep doing it, she is telling me she doesnt like it , but too bad!!


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Sissy didn't use to like for me to brush her - but I switched to a comb.

I started out doing easy things not pulling or anything - praising her - how wonderful she is, etc. Then would get into a couple of areas that might take a little extra combing. I didn't make her lay there a long time and gradually increased. Now she loves it and seems to enjoy her combing time.

I normally have the groomer do her nails but my DH has done it a couple of times and she would pull back (but she is not a growler at people anyway)

I am wondering if when Sierra bled it must have hurt for days and she remembers that and doesn't want any part of that again....poor baby. I have never tried myself to clip her nails - it would kill me if I hurt her. 

You might try giving her the best treat you have during this time. Like cooked chicken or something to make it worth her while....lol

Marie


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Yes, my Freddie is a grump and chicken dog.LOL! He growls and groans, but would never bite. He will grunt and walk away in a pissy mood. He thinks he's a prince!


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

Suuske,

Have you thought about using a nail grinder? Most dogs that are terrified of nail clippers will tolerate a grinder with no problem. Just make sure you don't catch their fur on the grinding wheel.

It's easy and quick, and definitely helps from taking too much nail.

The type I'm talking about is like this:

http://grooming.petedge.com/Dremel-...Id=214&subCategoryId=501&subsubCategoryId=345

Wanda


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## EMarie (Apr 11, 2007)

First of all, I would tell you not to give up. She will have to understand when you want to do something to her you will. How old is your girl? My pom hated it and I would actually have to all but sit on him to cut his nails and about 2 months of that he finally gave in and now I can do them whenever I want. But I cut his nails every week for 2 months. Just cut the tips of them, that way you don't run the risk of quicking her. Then she will eventually realize that it is NOT hurting her. But DON"T give up, she will figure it out that if she pitches a fit then you will stop. Then it will get worse and she will behave like that when ever she wants you to stop anything.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Suuske747 said:


> In the Problems with Puppy thread some ppl said to turn the hav over on its back when growling to demand submissive behaviour.....
> Well, Sierra is very submissive....except when I brush her or want to cut her nails......
> 
> So have you guys got any experience similar to mine?


Hi Suuske,

Yes - very similar, with plucking the ear hairs. Lincoln is very submissive and tame and has only tried to snap at me once (when I moved his tail trying to figure out where some back pain was originating due to an injury).

At first, he tolerated it, but he never liked it. After awhile he just could not stand it anymore. I was amazed at how much he fought me - I could physically not restrain him!

I really don't think it is worth fighting if it is THAT bad, especially if you have other options (a groomer or vet to do the deed, etc.). The relationship is the most important thing to me. And I found a compromise - I clip the ear hairs with a blunt scissors, and Lincoln will tolerate that. He puts up a slight fuss with nail clipping, and I have nicked him twice in the past. Since the fussing is slight, I do feel it is worth the battle over that one, and I'd encourage you to keep right on brushing Sierra


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## Suuske747 (May 9, 2007)

thank you for your sweet replies!

The nail grinder definitley seems worth a try to introduce it bit by bit with lots of praise and treats...I'll have a look for it here, it's the first time I've seen such an item....Dremel is a good brand!

Yes, since the fuss over brushing is slight, she groans, and twitches, but she lets me, and she will lie down when she knows I want her to, it's just that she informs me she doesn't agree hahahaha, I do brush and comb her daily...

I will see my breeder at a show at the end of the month, and will ask her to pick a good brush and comb for me, as I wonder if maybe the pins are hurting her.....

With the nails.....clipping, no I will not do that again..it breaks my heart to restrain her like that....and as it's not that much of a necessity as the brushing is, I will have to find other solutions like the vet and her breeder and maybe a good groomer (haven't found one yet that I trust) to have her nails done, it's just the front paws....back paws are really really short from doing RLH on the driveway......my vet said she must be going so fast that she takes off with her front paws hahahahahaha Well he's never seen a Hav do a RLH hahahaha


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## Suuske747 (May 9, 2007)

oh, she is 1 3/4 yrs. old...so still young....

I just checked that site properly....shipping outside of USA is special pricing......so I'll having to google it some more....


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

Has anyone with their hav in full coat used the nail grinder? How hard is it to keep the hair out of it and how do you keep it out?


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Suuske747 said:


> I will see my breeder at a show at the end of the month, and will ask her to pick a good brush and comb for me, as I wonder if maybe the pins are hurting her.....


I found two pin brushes that I like; both are slightly different. The one from Chris Christensen has rounded/sanded pins, so it does not scratch the skin at all. You can run it over your own skin and see that it feels really smooth.

The other pin brush I got from Mark Kolbe who was advertising these European brushes in the most recent issue of Our Havanese magazine (PM me if you want the contact info). Those pins are not as smooth, BUT, the pad they are set in is very very soft and gives easily. So, I can see that the pressure of the pins on the dog's skin will be less than with the CC brush (which has a firmer pad and does not give as easily with pressure).

My boys are fine with both - I don't see a difference in their reaction. But, you might want to try the CC w/ the smooth pins and just use a light pressure while grooming. Good luck! Keep us posted!


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

What's up with plucking ear hair? My vet warned me to tell my groomer not to do it. She said it creates open pores which are more easily infected. I imagine it would really hurt too.


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## Suuske747 (May 9, 2007)

I am told to do that by my breeder and my vet...
According to them, if you don't, sometimes hair doesn't grow out of the ears, but curls up inside.....them the dirt stays in, and when there's too much hair curled up it puts pressure on the ear canal and can infect....


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I just plucked Gucci's ear hair last night and there was CRUD in one ear. UGH. :frusty: It looked like dirt of some sort, and I keep her REALLY clean, I think I should be more vigilent about plucking the ear hair from here on out. I don't want her to get an infection 

Kara


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I use a grinder all the time and have found if I have the hair damp, not wet, on the feet I do not catch the hair. I worked with treats, I do not hold her she stands on the grooming table with a rubber matt. if I run down the nail and it hits the matt it is not big deal. The hair is pushed back from the nails. I grind down the curve on the front which causes the quick to receed. Then pick up the foot to round off the tip.

I started with grind, click, treat, grind, click, treat. The more I tried to restrain her the worse she was. 

Be sure to just touch the nail, if you let it get hot they will resist. I do it 
wilth little taps.

I use the Cordless Dremel 4.8V with charger. It is not for dogs but is small and works well for me.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

There are many who say pluck the ear hairs and many who say it's not at all necessary. We have some threads here about that, I'm sure.  If you pluck, I think that yes, you do leave 'room' for infection to possibly set in. The ears usually clean themselves out naturally, or you can add some product now and then to get them clean w/o having to remove any hairs. 

My vet told me 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' meaning the hairs are there for a reason so not to worry about removing them unless there are so many that it stays humid in there and I smell something bad. When I had Ricky groomed for the first time, I compromised after the groomer wanted to remove all the hairs. I said 'don't take out more than half the hair'. lol Silly, but it works for me! I do the same for Sammy.

Btw, removing ear hairs doesn't usually hurt one bit. They hardly react, other than to shake their heads after because I imagine it tickles a bit. lol You dont' even need tweezers. I grab a couple of hairs and twist and pull gently and out they come. Very easy and painless. 

As to the growling Sierra, I agree that you might want to either try the grinding for her nails or have someone else do them. It is hard to go through a fight each and every time. Hard on Sierra and hard on you, your partner and anyone else helping. 

Because Ricky has black nails, it took me a week to cut them all for the first time when he was 9 wks. old. Hubby would help and I'd sweat and swear. Forget it! I found my groomer, who for $5, will trim all the nails and another $5 will get the fur on the paws all nicely trimmed. It's not worth the headache for me! lol 

Good luck, Suzanne!


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

My vet told me not to pluck ear hair. He said he sees more problems from plucking than from not. I think you just have to be more vigilant with cleaning and checking them. Shelby was scratching behind her ears and when I checked, she had mats in them. Since I cut them out, she is fine.

As far as growling and grunting, Shelby is the one. She is the moaner. And when I brush her, it starts out with moaning, then growling, then biting my hand.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

irnfit said:


> As far as growling and grunting, Shelby is the one. She is the moaner. And when I brush her, it starts out with moaning, then growling, then biting my hand.


Imagining Shelby brought back memories from my childhood when I'd be watching my mom groom our Lhasa. She's always try to bite my mom, so my mom would be sitting with her on the floor, belly up, with my mom's feet "stepping" on the dog's long ears to keep her head down to keep her from nipping. That, and she'd get a steady stream of treats during the whole process. Thankfully grooming Lincoln and Scout isn't too bad!


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