# Trouble with Crating



## inphinyti (Feb 9, 2015)

My puppy is 14 weeks old -we have had him since he was 8 weeks old. We are having a lot of trouble with crating him. We had a trainer do an initial evaluation, and she basically just said he is being a puppy, but I don't want to make a mistake and make it worse. He's definitely showing signs of separation anxiety. He is not afraid of the crate itself, and goes in there when he's eating, wants to nap, but only if the door is open. He is also a velcro dog, meaning he follows us from room to room and gets a bit whiny if he doesnt know where we've gone. He is not completely housebroken so we obviously cant leave him roaming free. In the crate, he barks and cries for the entire time, whether it is 15 minutes or 2 hours (the most we've left him in). He will try to bite the cage, and also paws under his bed. And when we come back, his face is wet, but I am not sure if that is just from him biting the cage, or it is drool. He does take breaks from the barking though and lays quietly for a minute or so every so often. If this is actually how all puppies are, or even if it is just what this puppy is doing but it is "OK" and it will just take time for him to become accustomed to the crate and be quiet, then I can let it run its course, but as I said, I dont want to make things worse and get to the point where he needs medication. My husband is away for 2 weeks, and I am at my wits end as it's been a 24 hour job and I am trying to work from home as well. Would love your thoughts and advice on how to deal with this. thank you!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Get the DVD Crate Games from Susan Garrett's "Say Yes!" web site. If you follow even just the first 3 lessons, your dog will learn to love his crate!


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## inphinyti (Feb 9, 2015)

The crate games are for the puppy to play alone?


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## inphinyti (Feb 9, 2015)

And does anyone have thoughts on the trainer's suggestion which was basically to let the puppy cry it out which could take hours and even then perhaps months of doing it consistently? does this harm the puppy psychologically if he has anxiety?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

inphinyti said:


> The crate games are for the puppy to play alone?


No, you need to train your puppy to love his crate&#8230; without force. This DVD will show you how to do it. I don't know ANYONE who has used this method who hasn't been able to get their dog to love their crate.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

inphinyti said:


> And does anyone have thoughts on the trainer's suggestion which was basically to let the puppy cry it out which could take hours and even then perhaps months of doing it consistently? does this harm the puppy psychologically if he has anxiety?


I wasn't one to let my BABIES "cry it out", so I'm not going to do it to a puppy either. If they will stop after a couple of minutes, it's just a "protest", and they'll get over it. (although I'd STILL prefer to Crate Games way) but I think you could cause a huge amount of anxiety if the puppy truly can't settle for hours at a time. It just sounds cruel to me.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

inphinyti said:


> I am trying to work from home as well.


Is there a problem with letting your puppy lie at your feet while you are working from home? Mi Tia Auntie works from home and her 70 pound Lab (mi best amigo) lies contentedly at her feet while she is on the phone or computer.

Maybe you can start by letting the crate be ONLY a place where he can sleep in comfort at night and eat his meals, until he learns your routine. Maybe you can put his crate in the room where you work and where you sleep. Why not leave the crate door open so your puppy can come and go as he pleases. Set up an X-pen outside his crate and put down a plastic tarp for any accidents. Take him outside to potty every 30 minutes in the beginning to set him up for success. Your puppy is still VERY young and is still trying to find his place in YOUR life. You need to be patient. I eat and sleep in my crate, but it is ALWAYS in the same room as Momi and Popi.

I dunno, I love mi Momi and Popi so much, I want to be with them all the time, right in the same room, whatever they are doing. That characteristic is what makes us Havanese! eace:

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## inphinyti (Feb 9, 2015)

Krandall ok thank you. I found the website and will give that dvd a go. Wish us luck. 

Ricky Ricardo sure its ok what you suggested when we are there, but what do we do when we have to go out? right now, even very short times he is upset when we aren't around and he has to sit in his crate. Actually the only time he is OK with the door being closed is at night when he us sleeping. We want to get to the point where we can live our lives and go for a run or take a shower or go to dinner and know he is OK in his crate.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I think unless you are dealing with a severe case of separation anxiety that most puppies can learn that you will come back when you leave them. I would keep trying short times of crating during the day, like when you are showering or running a quick errand. I always left something in the crate like a kong or chew toy as well as a comfort item like a stuffed animal or tshirt that had my scent on it. Try to make comings and goings as not a big deal so they don't get too excited or anxious. I would also reward any time the puppy is being quiet in the crate and ignore the times they aren't. Here is a picture of Molly 2 days after we brought her home. She would stand up and literally scream her displeasure of being in the crate. We stuck with it and now she considers the crate her haven. She runs in there on her own when I tell her that I need to go shower!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Also, don't be discouraged if he continues to complain when confined while you are in the house. Kodi is 6 1/2, and STILL doesn't like to be crated or gated away from us while we are in the house. He's absolutely FINE gated in my office (he was in an ex-pen as a puppy) when we have to leave the house. We started with very short trips out (going to the mail box) followed by trips to the pharmacy down the street, followed by grocery shopping...


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## inphinyti (Feb 9, 2015)

Thank you so much guys. It's just been so hard especially this last week with my husband away, and I've just been so worried/frustrated/hopeless feeling, thinking we're never going to get our lives back, this helps so much. And thank you for the pic molly. That's simular to what my little guy does. So I'm so very glad to hear things got better.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

inphinyti said:


> Thank you so much guys. It's just been so hard especially this last week with my husband away, and I've just been so worried/frustrated/hopeless feeling, thinking we're never going to get our lives back, this helps so much. And thank you for the pic molly. That's simular to what my little guy does. So I'm so very glad to hear things got better.


Your pup is still a very small baby. Things will get better, but there's no doubt about it&#8230; the first year of puppy raising has its challenges!!!


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

I did the Crate Games program with my hav when he was puppy, and took my adult dog too. We were fortunate to have a class in my area. I cant recommend it highly enough. It helps not just with the dog learning to love the crate, but teaching the dog how to think. If you do this with high value dog treats it will work! In our class there were some major barkers and to see the improvement was amazing.


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## inphinyti (Feb 9, 2015)

Thank you! Will definitely look into the crate games. And yes it's certainly been a challenge. In hindsight i feel a bit foolish for not being prepared for it.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

inphinyti said:


> but what do we do when we have to go out? right now, even very short times he is upset when we aren't around and he has to sit in his crate.


Ignore him



> We want to get to the point where we can live our lives and go for a run or take a shower


Mi Momi and Popi haven't had a private moment in the bathroom for any purpose since I arrived on the scene! :biggrin1:



> or go to dinner and know he is OK in his crate.


Just close off one room with a child's gate. Leave some toys and a bully stick or Kong filed with treats for him. Put the crate in the room with the door open so he can come and go as he pleases. He may not like it, but he will learn to adapt (and the crate will not be viewed as a place where bad things might happen).

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

I am also having a problem with leaving the house. My puppy is now 20 wks but I found out early on that she is a climber. I had what I thought was a perfect setup for her for while I was out. We called it her "apartment", an area off the kitchen, gated, with her bed, toys, water, and puppy pads. This small "apartment" as we called it, was able to successfully and safely confine 2 adult Kuvaszok as well as a Dobie Even though I have since replaced the gate and it has worked so far, I am no longer sure how and where I will find her as she is getting stronger and more daring every day. I now crate her but I find myself always rushing to do what I have to do and get back ASAP. Any suggestions with a climber? Thanks,


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Zoe093014 said:


> I am also having a problem with leaving the house. My puppy is now 20 wks but I found out early on that she is a climber. I had what I thought was a perfect setup for her for while I was out. We called it her "apartment", an area off the kitchen, gated, with her bed, toys, water, and puppy pads. This small "apartment" as we called it, was able to successfully and safely confine 2 adult Kuvaszok as well as a Dobie Even though I have since replaced the gate and it has worked so far, I am no longer sure how and where I will find her as she is getting stronger and more daring every day. I now crate her but I find myself always rushing to do what I have to do and get back ASAP. Any suggestions with a climber? Thanks,


There really isn't anything you can do other than crate her or close her in a room with a solid door. It's really unsafe to let her climb, because they often just fall off the far side, and even if thy jump, it's still not good for them.

There ARE ex-pens with tops, and that's another possibility if you have room for it.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Molly is not a "climber" but I do know there are certain gates and pens that are easier to climb. If your gate has horizontal bars going across it,it makes it easier for a dog to step on and climb. My expen has diagonal bars and looks like it would be hard for a dog to get their foot in comfortably to climb. You may be able to find a gate with the same thing. Good luck!


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks. I thought of closing the door to her little room but was wondering if it wouldn't make her feel more isolated. Molly, do you have a picture or a link for the type of ex pen you described? Thanks, again for your responses.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Zoe093014 said:


> Thanks. I thought of closing the door to her little room but was wondering if it wouldn't make her feel more isolated. Molly, do you have a picture or a link for the type of ex pen you described? Thanks, again for your responses.


It might be a little more isolating, but I assume this is mostly when you aren't home? Most dogs just settle and sleep when their owners aren't home.

Even if you buy a new ex-pen, before making that investment, I'd make sure that you can enclose the top&#8230; otherwise you might find that you STILL need that option. Some Havanese are like little goats!


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

Hmmm... Thanks, Karen. Closing the door would definitely be the easiest and simplest solution. (Yes, it would be only for when I'm not home.) The only other idea I had was maybe cutting a piece of plexi-glass (not sure of the sp?)??? so she could see out.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Zoe093014 said:


> Hmmm... Thanks, Karen. Closing the door would definitely be the easiest and simplest solution. (Yes, it would be only for when I'm not home.) The only other idea I had was maybe cutting a piece of plexi-glass (not sure of the sp?)??? so she could see out.


That could work too, but what is there to see when you're not home?


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

True.  I'll try it! When the weather gets warmer I will bring her in her crate. (Indoor ring at the barn.) but right now I think it is still to cold to do that especially if she is just watching in the crate. Thank you so much!!!


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Molly's expen is the North States Superyard which is actually for babies. She is not a climber but I think you will see what I was talking about where the holes go in a diagonal direction.


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks for that site, Diane. They seem really nice for babies but I was just wondering if they could possibly get a paw stuck in the small diagonals? My Zoe is really curious, daring and mischievous and can get into trouble before you know it! Even with the vertical slats I have to make sure they're narrow enough so she couldn't get her head stuck.:jaw: I was thinking that an ex pen might not be a bad idea for outside as well.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Zoe093014 said:


> Thanks for that site, Diane. They seem really nice for babies but I was just wondering if they could possibly get a paw stuck in the small diagonals? My Zoe is really curious, daring and mischievous and can get into trouble before you know it! Even with the vertical slats I have to make sure they're narrow enough so she couldn't get her head stuck.:jaw: I was thinking that an ex pen might not be a bad idea for outside as well.


I LOVE my ex-pens. We STILL use them from time to time! We had work done on the house last summer and used them to keep Kodi out of paint, grout, etc.

And when friends come over to do agility, we put the dogs who are waiting their turn in the ex-pen, and have just the one running out at a time.


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks, Karen and Molly for the great tips. In hindsight I can see I made some mistakes. Just hope I can recoup from this point on. ound:


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

When Emmie was a puppy I used a pet playpen. It has a mesh top that you can zip closed so your Hav can't jump out.

This one is currently on sale. I think it is the same as the one I have.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/OxGord-Portable-Exercise-Fence-Kennel/dp/B00IUUGL0U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1425079244&sr=8-3&keywords=pink+puppy+playpen"]Amazon.com : Pink OxGord 45" Pet Dog Cat Play Pen Tent Portable Exercise Fence Kennel Cage Crate : Pet Supplies[/ame]


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

You're so sweet! Thank you, Jeanne! It would have been perfect. I didn't have anything portable when she was little and I wanted her to move around a little rather than just sit or lay in a crate all day. I don't know if she is too old for it now, though. She's kind of big and really athletic. BTY, your hav is so beautiful!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Zoe093014 said:


> Thanks, Karen and Molly for the great tips. In hindsight I can see I made some mistakes. Just hope I can recoup from this point on. ound:


It's never too late to do things right. 

You will have to be even MORE vigilant and consistent, but you can do it!!!


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

OK...I'm up for the challenge! She's outwitted me so far on everything but the game's not over yet! Wish me luck!  And thanks for the support ... I needed that!


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## inphinyti (Feb 9, 2015)

Well we've made quite a bit of progress. My puppy is actually relatively quiet even we leave him in the crate and leave the house (we have a Webcam). Yay!! 

The problem now is for times when we put him in while we are there, he goes nuts. For example, while we eat dinner. once he is done with his treat, he's done and wants out immediately. We ignore him, but he makes awful noise. He's gone potty by then, so it's not that and seems to be a tantrum. Any suggestions? the only thing we can think of is to leave him in there and let him understand he's not getting out till we are done, but it's been going on for over a week and does not seem to be getting any better. Just wondering if there is a better suggestion.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

inphinyti said:


> Well we've made quite a bit of progress. My puppy is actually relatively quiet even we leave him in the crate and leave the house (we have a Webcam). Yay!!
> 
> The problem now is for times when we put him in while we are there, he goes nuts. For example, while we eat dinner. once he is done with his treat, he's done and wants out immediately. We ignore him, but he makes awful noise. He's gone potty by then, so it's not that and seems to be a tantrum. Any suggestions? the only thing we can think of is to leave him in there and let him understand he's not getting out till we are done, but it's been going on for over a week and does not seem to be getting any better. Just wondering if there is a better suggestion.


What you are doing is right. Sometimes it can take a while to get the message through. Make sure you are not talking to him or looking toward him, and as hard as it is, TRY to carry on as usual. We had a lot of trouble with Kodi over this exact thing (crating during human meals) and we did find that covering the crate so he couldn't see us helped him to settle down.

Puppies do seem to have a "witching hour", just like toddlers, which often corresponds to the time that the humans in the house are cooking and eating dinner. I found with Kodi that it was partially being tired and TRYING not to give in to sleep. When he finally settled, he would fall SOUNDLY asleep for an hour or more. Then, when he woke up, he was good to go for the rest of the evening.


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## inphinyti (Feb 9, 2015)

The hard part is not looking at him. He seems to ramp it up when we do. Thanks for the advice. We'll keep at it and i think with time he will be better at this too. Thank you!


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