# True Chocolate Color



## RioRocco (Jun 5, 2012)

I know there are a lot of dominate colors for the Havs but does the a True Chocolate Hav a rare or common color?

Lily attached picture is 5 months old and a someone told me she is a rare chocolate Hav.


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## Sharonefinkel (Jan 20, 2013)

I have a chocolate too, and I have always heard they are rare.

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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Chocolate is not one of the most common colors... largely because most good breeders don't purposely breed for color. If you look at colors in general, there are SO many that MOST colors, by themselves, might be considered "rare", with the possible exception of B&W and Sable. 

It IS unusual for chocolates to stay as dark as they are when they are puppies. Some do, but most fade... from a little to a lot. Your little cutie is adorable, but she's too young to know whether she will stay that color or lighten up over time. (oh, and to make things more confusing (exciting? ) Many Havs will go through periods of getting lighter, then darker, then lighter for their whole lives! 

P.S. I have a friend who is a breeder. Her parent dogs are NOT chocolate, and she's averaging about 50% puppies that are some shade of chocolate. So they aren't rare for her!. OTOH, she doesn't really care what color they are... she's breeding to produce healthy dogs with good conformation and great temperaments. And that's what breeders SHOULD concentrate on.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Maybe there just happen to be lots of people on this site with chocolate Havs, but they don't really seem particularly rare to me.

Your baby is adorable, no matter what her colour or how rare she may be!! LOL


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Am I the only one that sees part Yorkie in the picture? How old is your puppy? the ears and hair texture just look off to me in some way...?

I think some 'breeders' use the "rare" word to draw customers in and/or charge more for those puppies.
Personally I am not a fan of the chocolates.
sorry to be blunt.


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## RioRocco (Jun 5, 2012)

She is 5 months old.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

[QUI TEwe=TilliesMom;520194]Am I the only one that sees part Yorkie in the picture? How old is your puppy? the ears and hair texture just look off to me in some way...?

I think some 'breeders' use the "rare" word to draw customers in and/or charge more for those puppies.
Personally I am not a fan of the chocolates.
sorry to be blunt.[/QUOTE]

Maybe the ears are flopping upward because the pup is looking up and at that age the hair isnt long enough to "weigh" the ears down.

If I see a breeder charging more for a certain color that is an immediate "fail" in my book. I do like the color, and for many breeders it seems to just pop up randomly.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

The ones I've seen stay a true chocolate tend to be very dark as puppies. Some chocolates have a silvering gene so they may actually end up a very light brown to light copper, and the coloring can vary and be patchy-looking on the dog's body. This puppy has a lot of highlights in the coat so my educated guess is that she will lighten, but then again sometimes they can go through color changes during their lives so they can lighten or darken. You would have to look at other chocolate adult relatives to get a better idea. 

Since people tend to not like the fading chocolate coloring, breeders who produce non fading chocolates will state it on their website, along with pictures of an adult chocolate dog. If the breeder doesn't explicitly say "non-fading", at least from my observation, the chocolate puppies produced may have a higher chance of fading, most likely BC the breeder just wants to take advantage of the lable.

Breeders who produce chocolates tend to be either at the top or the bottom of breeder quality. At the top you have breeders who show and do all the required health testing, and who almost always do not specialize in chocolates (I can think of only one that I think is probably reputable, and that's Twins Havanese). At the bottom you have breeders that don't show (or don't use a titled stud), don't tell the buyers that the puppy color (that they are probably charging extra for) may fade, don't do all the health testings, don't care to analyze and plan out a healthy pedigree, and IMHO market and take advantage of people wanting a puppy based on the color.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Another thing to point out is that the color, "chocolate", is determined by nose and eye rim color, NOT coat color. You can have a dog (or puppy) that has a pale cream coat, and if it has a chocolate nose amd eye rims, it is still a chocolate.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

Cutie! As a breeder I don't see chocolates as rare. I hate it when people use that word so they can charge more, crazy! But it does look like your baby may have the silvering gene. I had a chocolate boy that was born pretty dark, but he ended up as a silver with a bit darker head as an adult. But I think Havs are AWESOME no matter what color they are!


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## m0rg4n (Feb 8, 2013)

We ended up with a "chocolate" by chance. My goal was to find a hav that didn't have a white face (I'm lazy and didn't want the added difficulty of keeping the eyes stain free). The breeder we went through happened to have a black and tan but he was show quality and we just wanted a pet. 

Indy was the biggest and has one messed up tooth (that doesn't impact him at all). He was also the only puppy out of the litter that continually curled up on his back in our arms so we could pet his belly - four months old and that his still his preferred sleeping spot. 

He's already lightened up so much since we brought him home and I can see the white hair coming in in places. I have no idea if he'll stay a bark brown or end up with a more than white face but at this point it's obvious he was made for our family... even when I do have to learn all about keeping his eyes stain free 

She is beautiful and I love how her eyes just shine.


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## RioRocco (Jun 5, 2012)

Thank you everyone for the awesome feedback.

Lily is going to be a fun girl to watch how the color start changing on her. 

Anyone guess when you think the color changes would start?


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## m0rg4n (Feb 8, 2013)

RioRocco said:


> Thank you everyone for the awesome feedback.
> 
> Lily is going to be a fun girl to watch how the color start changing on her.
> 
> Anyone guess when you think the color changes would start?


At 4 months Indy's getting light tan eye brows and face markings. He's also getting more white hair on his back end (he's going gray early, life is hard). If you look closely you can also see the general lightening of all his hair (he was a VERY dark brown and is now more chocolate but you can see the tips).


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

RioRocco said:


> I know there are a lot of dominate colors for the Havs but does the a True Chocolate Hav a rare or common color?
> 
> Lily attached picture is 5 months old and a someone told me she is a rare chocolate Hav.


 I think the reason they are rare is that is takes both the mother and father having the recessive choc gene to produce a choc pup. And you still might not have a choc puppy. So its taken longer to have breeders who actually are interested in breeding to produce a choc pup. My friend had to fly with her bitch to Florida to mate with a dog their. She had one puppy a large boy who is beautiful and doing very well in the show ring.I love the color of the darker chocolate's I also love red Havanese I don't care about people saying not to breed for color. I think if I was a breeder it would be fun to have that challenge included in the breeding program. I love Pillow talks Havanese and they have very nice red havanese. A lot of breeders these days are getting rid of certain coats and going for a more silky what would be the difference.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

This is pic from Roki's playdate. Chocolate hav on the right is an adult chocolate hav, multinational champion and stud dog. Amelio is from US, from Carita Havanese, specialised in chocolate havs. They have good articles about that colour, the best I have read.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> I think the reason they are rare is that is takes both the mother and father having the recessive choc gene to produce a choc pup. And you still might not have a choc puppy. So its taken longer to have breeders who actually are interested in breeding to produce a choc pup. My friend had to fly with her bitch to Florida to mate with a dog their. She had one puppy a large boy who is beautiful and doing very well in the show ring.I love the color of the darker chocolate's I also love red Havanese I don't care about people saying not to breed for color. I think if I was a breeder it would be fun to have that challenge included in the breeding program. I love Pillow talks Havanese and they have very nice red havanese. A lot of breeders these days are getting rid of certain coats and going for a more silky what would be the difference.


I think the problem, Suzi, is when breeders breed SPECIFICALLY for a color, and don't continue to pay close attention to the breed standard. There's nothing wrong with wanting a certain color in your lines, as long as your primary concerns are health, conformation and temperament. (not necessarily in that order)

Likewise, if someone absolutely HAS to have a specific color, that's fine AS LONG AS they don't give up more important factors to get a chocolate. And the problem with chocolates is that the good breeders may be happy to get them, but that's not their top priority, so you may or may not get a chocolate puppy if you're on their waiting list. OTOH, look on Puppy Finder and you'll find that puppy mill chocolate Havanese are a dime a dozen. You can buy one any day of the week.


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## Sharonefinkel (Jan 20, 2013)

m0rg4n said:


> We ended up with a "chocolate" by chance. My goal was to find a hav that didn't have a white face (I'm lazy and didn't want the added difficulty of keeping the eyes stain free). The breeder we went through happened to have a black and tan but he was show quality and we just wanted a pet.
> 
> Indy was the biggest and has one messed up tooth (that doesn't impact him at all). He was also the only puppy out of the litter that continually curled up on his back in our arms so we could pet his belly - four months old and that his still his preferred sleeping spot.
> 
> ...


That funny about getting a chocolate because of the tear stains! I felt the same way, and it just so happened that the breeder had two chocolates. Bosco is so dark brown, but his father was mostly white and his mother was black and white. Who knows what will happen with his coat change???


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## m0rg4n (Feb 8, 2013)

Sharonefinkel said:


> That funny about getting a chocolate because of the tear stains! I felt the same way, and it just so happened that the breeder had two chocolates. Bosco is so dark brown, but his father was mostly white and his mother was black and white. Who knows what will happen with his coat change???


We have the same parent colors on Indy's side too. Mom is a white everywhere but her ears and a light (really light!) spot on her back. Dad is a beautiful black and tan.

Indy is already shifting but the most irritating part is that he's still nearly impossible to take pictures of. He just sucks the light out of a room


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## Sharonefinkel (Jan 20, 2013)

m0rg4n said:


> We have the same parent colors on Indy's side too. Mom is a white everywhere but her ears and a light (really light!) spot on her back. Dad is a beautiful black and tan.
> 
> Indy is already shifting but the most irritating part is that he's still nearly impossible to take pictures of. He just sucks the light out of a room


Lol!!! True! I have to take pictures in the sun, never in the shade!!


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