# Crate training after "caving in"



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

This is going to be a lengthy post, so I apologize in advance. 

We were blessed with Havanna in our home when she was 7 weeks old. For the first 11 nights, I crated her. On the 12th night, after getting up with her three times every night while my husband slept peaceful through her whining/crying, I put her in bed with us. She only woke me up once that night to go potty. Needless to say, she's been sleeping with us ever since; she's now 4 1/2 months old. My husband is upset that she's still in bed with us; however, when I tried to put her back in her crate at night approximately 2 weeks ago, HE'S the one who caved in and put her back in bed with us after she barked (not whined or cried, but BARKED) for 20 minutes. How do I get her to enjoy being in her crate at this later stage? On the rare occasions that she's left home by herself during the daytime (I work from home), I put her in the crate. She's not afraid of it and doesn't hate it, as she'll walk in and out of it on her own during the day (and I make sure to occasionally play with her while she's in there - with the door open, of course!). She will not, however, go in there and sleep, relax, etc on her own. I'm afraid I'll only make her hate it at this stage, and she won't want to go in at all. I'd also like to know anyone's experience with what type of crate to have and where to place it. We currently have a crate that is plastic which has limited visibility; I've read that the wire crates are better because of air circulation and the puppy's ability to see all around himself/herself and feel more "open". The crate is also in our bedroom; is this the best place to have it, or should it be in another room (I've read varying opinions on this)? We are strongly thinking of getting another puppy (I'm going back to work outside the home in a couple of months, and Havanna will not be happy alone!), and I was considering putting two crates side-by-side in one of our spare bedrooms. 

I would very much appreciate any advice/guidance. Thank you all so much for having this forum!

Havanna's mama, Michelle


----------



## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

Michelle,

We had Gryff in our bed for about 8 months and we're now crating him. He went right in without a peep. I was stunned. We now keep him in the crate, but keep the door open so he can get up when I get up during the night.

Give it some time. She'll get used to being in there.


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

What has worked for me (with Dora and last night) put the crate next to your bed at the same level as you so the lil one can see you and still feel part of the pack. My dogs do sleep with me but this worked until the potty/chewing stage was over. The hard part is you- you need to stay tough and not give in.

As for daytime periods, an xpen is a great way to keep them away from things that can harm them and when you can't be there to watch him.

Amanda


----------



## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Michele, When we first brought Tessa home I put her crate beside our bed on a chaise lounge so I could put my fingers in if she whined. We do use an all wire crate and it is still in our MBR, although on the floor now. She'd be in our bed but my DH is hanging tough on this one.

I think she's just throwing a hissy fit and letting you know she's not happy with this new turn of events. If you give in it will be all over for you. It may take a few nights of crying and barking. Good luck, it's going to be difficult now that she's already been in your bed.

Oh yeah, I always give Tessa a small piece of a very high value treat after she goes in her crate every night.


----------



## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Oh boy, she's experienced nirvana and does not want to go back to doggyland. I agree that you will have to hang tough. When the barking goes on and on, I've hung a blanket or towel over the crate so they get the point that it's really lights out and night night. 

I agree that a high value treat is a great reward. Also, you may want to consider feeding in the crate so your baby associates it will all good things.


----------



## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Another suggestion, Michelle.
Cicero seemed to be more attached to my husband when we got him so I put a shirt my husband had worn in the crate....he curled right up on it and went to sleep.


----------



## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

LuvCicero said:


> Another suggestion, Michelle.
> Cicero seemed to be more attached to my husband when we got him so I put a shirt my husband had worn in the crate....he curled right up on it and went to sleep.


Oh, that's a good idea! Also, if the crate is up at the bed level as Amanda suggested, you can put your fingers through the mesh door into the gate. That seems to help too.


----------



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks, ladies, for all your comments so far. Dale, I have already started implementing your suggestions! I just wanted to share with everyone that these Havs are wonderful puppies! My mother, who says she's a devout dog hater, has actually "puppysat" for me on two occasions and has been making Havanna little scarves to wear around her neck! The Havs conquer all!


----------



## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

You have gotten great advice here. When Brady first came home when he was a puppy, I had him in the corner of our bedroom and he cried all night. As soon as I moved him on top of a table next to my bed, he slept through the night without a peep. I did use a wire crate so he could see us. I also feed Brady in his crate so he associates it with all kinds of good things. When he was small, we had one crate in the bedroom for sleeping and one in the den for when we went out. I always give him a special treat when I go out and he goes in very happily. I also leave the radio on for him when I am out. 

Glad to hear that your little one has converted your mom. To be honest, I am not a huge dog person, just havs!


----------



## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Michelle,

Hi neighbor - I live about 10 miles from you!

Finally, a havie near us!!!!!:whoo:

We started out with Sissy in her crate and then we just left the door open and she stayed. Now she starts out in her crate around 9:30 p.m. she puts herself to bed. Then sometime in the night she goes to DH's side and he puts her in bed with us. We love it. (Sissy's crate is in our bedroom)

If you really want her back in the crate - play really hard and then have a relaxing time. Put her in the crate when you all go to bed. Lights out.
If she fusses just ignore her. You might put your hand in the crate for her to smell. Some people have put their crates on the nightstand so that the little one can see them.

I know what you mean about she it ok with her crate. Sissy loves her crate but we never shut the door. She takes naps in it during the day - it's her hidy hole during storms, too.


----------



## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

Marley absolutely HATED his plastic crate...I could not leave him in there, he would completely freak out. 

He doesn't love his wire crate either, but he sleeps in there and we leave him there when we go out and he is ok. When we came back from vacation and he was at another house for 16 days, the crate was the one constant thing, and I did see how the familiar thing in the changing surroundings comforted him. I bought a larger on than necessary ( I want to say it's 30" long) and a super cuddly soft pad. At night I cover it with another blanket, during the day I leave it uncovered and turn the TV on when we have to go out.


----------



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Gosh, ladies, Round 1 of Crate Training has worn me out! After reading some of your replies, we bought a wire crate yesterday. Havanna seemed to like it better, as we were able to play with her in the crate with the doors shut which NEVER would have happened in the plastic crate. It didn't seem to make much difference when "nighty-night" came around, though. She went into the crate on her own, and I shut the door and gave her a treat. I made sure she could see me get in bed (we have a sleigh bed that is up pretty high, and I couldn't figure a way to put her crate on our level), and I said, "Nighty-night, Havanna." The barking immediately started! This went on for about 20 minutes, with my hubby saying, "Just put her in bed with us." I finally grabbed my pillow and a blanket, laid beside her crate and put my fingers inside. She stopped barking instantly...just whined real low. After about 35 minutes, there was silence...Havanna had fallen asleep! I waited another 15 minutes and tried to get back into bed...no such luck. Havanna started barking again. Needless to say, I spent the whole night on the floor. Did I mention that the hubby was sleeping peacefully on the bed through all this??? Hmm. Anyway, Havanna and I got up about 6:30 this morning. Sometime between then and now, she peed on the rug by the front door (housebreaking had been going well; she hadn't peed inside in about 7 weeks). Maybe she's trying to show me she's still the boss. Tonight, I'll make myself a more comfortable pallet on the floor (and hope I won't need it - haha). I also forgot Dale's advice to put my t-shirt in the crate, so I'll be sure to do that. Keep your fingers crossed that Round 2 goes a little smoother. Oh, and Gryff very definitely deserves lots of praise and kisses for going into the crate after 8 months without a fuss. What a little fur man!


----------



## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Michelle, I am sorry that you had such a rough night. It sounds like if there was a way to raise the crate up to bed level, you guys would be OK. Can you use your dresser or a couple of card table chairs? Since hubby slept so well last night, perhaps this should be his project.


----------



## Diana (Oct 23, 2007)

Hi-
I agree with Cheryl. Teddy was the same way at night until I bought one of those big plastic tubs at Target and put his crate on top of it with the opening facing my side of the bed. It worked like a charm! He is very happy with that setup. I had to recrate him at night because he was jumping off the bed and getting into too much mischief!


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Hmm..

I don't know if I would start the habit of sleeping on the floor by the crate. How far is the crate from your bed?

I can't imagine taking Gucci off the bed and into a crate, I'd have one depressed dog. lol. I do think it can be done, but you have to look at it from their point, they are pack animals and I think they DO get want to sleep with their pack, whether its in the bed, or a crate on the nightstand where they can see you. I know some do 'ok' alone, but I think most of them want to see you.

You've gotten some great advice so far, I hope something works for you! I just think if you keep sleeping on the floor, that'll be what she expects.

We don't mind Gucci in our bed, but I think its a decision that each family has to make. I would go heavy on treating and praise when she is being quiet or doing the right thing. And yes..I think they do act out or have 'accidents' when they are upset with us.. and she probably doesn't understand why she can't sleep with her 'pack' anymore and might think she's being punished.

Kara


----------



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

We have always said we were going to get another puppy (because we want two and to keep Havanna company). Do you all think that getting another puppy would help with the crate training (as their crates would be side-by-side and they'd be "together")?


----------



## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

I've never had much success with one teaching another that the crate is a great place to be. Some adapt super well, others are pills. My Maltese hates his door locked but will sleep in it whenever I'm near with the door open. My Havanese, adores her crate and heads there when I start to go out or for breakfast/dinner (I feed in the crate).

In fact just Friday I had an installer here and the Maltese is a dasher, so I put him in his crate and he just started to screech, put the Havanese's crate (MeMe's) right in front so he could see her and it didn't stop him at all. My only success has been to put a blanket over it.

But getting a second Havanese is always a wonderful idea. :biggrin1: How old is Havanna? She still looks very young. Maybe wait until she's a year or so but it really depends on how much work you want to put into potty and other training.


----------



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Havanna is 4 1/2 months old. When we first got her, I literally spent all day for the first two weeks playing with her (I work from home and have no set amount of work to do each day). I thought I was doing a good thing and getting her comfortable with our home. Unfortunately, I think it probably wasn't the best thing to do as now she acts like she can't play by herself. It's difficult for me to get work done (I have to wait 'til she's napping). She constantly wants attention and cries when you aren't interacting with her. I'm going back to work outside the house in a couple of months, and I'm very worried how she's going to handle that. She's my first indoor dog (my husband's, too, for that matter), and I'm afraid we have (unintentionally) made a lot of mistakes. I must say, though, the housebreaking is going much better than I thought (thank God for that!).


----------



## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

If you get another you will have to change your on line name to Havatwo!:biggrin1:

We got Roxie when Brutus was 5 1/2 months old because I was going to work full time. It turned out to be a great decsion for all of us, but don't expect it to solve the crate problem.


----------



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks, Cheryl. I really needed to hear that it helped to get another puppy. My husband has been worried about getting a second one right now, but I'm very concerned about Havanna being alone. I know my crate training problems won't be solved with two; I just thought maybe they'd feel like a pack of their own and be more comfortable with being in crates together. I found a breeder in Arkansas who has a little bit older Havs for sale (6 months old), and I'm seriously thinking of driving down there next weekend!


----------



## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

We are often asked by my SIL to take care of her Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Lucy. 

Lucy will be turning two at the end of the month. She has never been crated, and sleeps every night with my SIL, who is single and who has no children.

Lucy and Posh are the best of friends, and so, when she asked if we could care for Lucy for four days, I was super excited! Meanwhile, I thought-"there is no way I feel comfortable not crating the dogs when I leave the house (I am super paranoid about dogs getting into "trouble") and because I have a four year old human who finds her way into my bed around 3 a.m. I couldn't imagine a dog there too. My husband is extremely anti "dog in the bed" and although he's come around with letting Posh cuddle with us at our "reading" time, I wanted to respect this. 

So...I asked my mom if I could borrow her wire crate that she still hung onto after moving up a crate size with her oversized sheltie. We set up the two crates right next to eachother, with a nice black scarf (which I used to wear with dresses ha!) over the top of both, making it look like one little cozy den with two doors. I asked my SIL to bring over a blankie or something that would smell like home. The two crates side by side looked sooo stinking adorable! Totally made we want two! 

I put Lucy in the crate and rewarded her with a treat. I had to physically put her in, as she is never crated, but I made sure I rewarder her. Of course, Posh runs right in her crate and never makes a peep!  I said goodnight to the girls, turned off the lights, walked upstairs to the bedroom and of course Lucy started barking! I told my husband I was not going to make it listening to the poor girl. I was also worried Lucy would "teach" Posh to bark...My DH told me to turn on the bathroom fan, which I did, to drown out the noise of her barking. I knew she was okay, just wondering "What the hell? Why aren't I in someone's bed?" Eventually either I fell asleep, with the fan drowning out the noise, or she gave up and stopped barking.

The next morning, I thought for sure she'd be a nervous wreck, or mad, or something. Instead I come down to two happy dogs, wagging their tails, not making a peep, ready for me to let them out to potty and give kisses to.

For three nights she barked and I turned on the "white noise" to drown out the sound. Each night her barking duration got shorter. I never went down to visit her, and this was very hard. Kind of like the whole crying baby thing, which I was never good at. HOWEVER, each morning she was wagging her little tail, and by the last night she didn't bark in the crate at all.

I know Havanna doesn't have a little pal to be crated next to, but, honestly, I don't think it mattered that Posh was there for Lucy. Lucy wanted to be in a human's bed, where she was accustomed. Posh didn't pick up on her barking, thankfully, and eventually Lucy figured out that "hey, this is comfy and no one is listening, so I'll go to sleep."

I'm not saying it was easy, and if it wasn't for the bathroom fan, I'd probably be down on the couch with Lucy. Meanwhile, I also didn't think it was fair for Posh to see Mom sleeping with someone else :suspicious:. 

This is going against what everyone else here has said, but...is your bedroom far enough away from your living room so you could crate her there? Do you have some "white noise" for the barking. You could still throw in something with your scent to comfort her. 

We keep Posh's crate in our living room because that's where we are mostly, and we wanted her to have a safe place, in the thick of it to go...this has worked well for us, but to each his own.

Also, I think you've done a great job being with her in her formative months, I don't think being away more would have done her any good. These guys are little shadows and Posh is literally one foot away most of the time. Give her some flossies, or bully sticks, or kongs when you need a break. Posh doesn't play usually on her own either when it's just me. HOWEVER, it is sooo fun to watch her play with another small dog i.e. Lucy. I think having the two dogs is a great idea if you are going back to work, and with a six month old they catch on quickly to potty training. 

I got Posh at six months, she hated the crate at that time, kind of slinked in....now she runs in when I say "time for night night." She barked the second night being home and it broke my heart.

Gosh I'm long winded...sorry!


----------



## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Kodi was pretty good about staying in his crate until night 3. Then he whined a little and DH put him in bed with us. Two and a half yrs later, and we have Kodi and Shelby in bed with us. I don't mind at all. They are really good and settle down immediately. They go to bed about 12pm and get up when I do, which can be anywhere from 5:30am to 8am, depending on the day. Shelby would live in bed if she could.


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

irnfit said:


> Shelby would live in bed if she could.


ound: I wonder if Shelby is related to Gucci?!?? lol Poor Gucci is in 'heat' right now and she is getting LOTS of beauty sleep. This morning, for the first time EVER..she ditched me at coffee-snuggle bear time to go back to BED with Daddy!!!! (traitor! ound

And talk about spoiled....she normally sleeps on my gorgeous gold silk comforter, which is folded and kept at the head of the bed, WELL..I covered it up with an old blue cotton sheet so she wouldn't BLEED on it...you should've seen the look she gave me..

"uhhh...no-you-didn't".

ound:

but....:focus: i do think you can train them to be in the crate, but I think they do wonder why they were demoted. lol Will another dog make it easier? maybe. But I don't think I would get another dog solely for that reason. I'm not saying you are, but you could end up with two unhappy dogs. My girl hated the crate no matter what I did to soothe her and make her like it, She flung herself against it til' she hurt herself 

Kara


----------



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

I don't think Havanna is every going to enjoy being in the crate; I think maybe she'll just get used to it (said with fingers crossed!). My husband and I are newlyweds and having Havanna in bed with us the last few months has certainly cut into our alone time. He's of the same mind as you, Amy, to move the crate out of our bedroom. I'm okay with that, eventually. I think she needs to get used to it first, though (and that might be me having a hard time "letting go").


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

havaone said:


> We have always said we were going to get another puppy (because we want two and to keep Havanna company). Do you all think that getting another puppy would help with the crate training (as their crates would be side-by-side and they'd be "together")?


NO...my experience is when they are young like that they just want to be by you (their human mom).

Can you put the crate on a table by the bed?


----------



## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Rather than making a nice spot for yourself on the floor, if I were you I'd search high and low for a way to get the crate at bed level. Wouldn't you rather sleep in the bed? If you stick to your guns the whining and barking will be shorter each night until your pup quits whining about it entirely. You might just be surprised to find in a few months she actually enjoys being in it! The crate can come in handy for vet trips or other times when she needs to be confined for a short time. 
My boy has been sleeping in his crate since we got him. At first we had the crate at the bed level and when he whined I put my fingers up to the crate to sooth him. Now he is a year old and the crate is on the floor next to the bed. If I doze off watching T.V. he'll paw at me to wake me up and lets me know it's time for bed. As I get ready for bed, he goes right into his crate and settles down.

Another hav is always a fun idea, but you should only get one because you really want one. After all, another hav means more food, more grooming, more back yard clean-ups, more walks, more playtime, etc. and you will be the one doing all of that!


----------



## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Michelle,
I do hope Havanna will get better each day with the crate....and I think she will if you hang tough. Most times it's a matter of who is going to cave in first....and she will try her best to get you to....and settle down when she accepts the fact that you wont.

One thing to think about. She is now having to get use to a crate "after" sleeping in the bed. Now if you decide to later move her crate to the den..that might be another change to work through with more crying wanting back in the bedroom. My opinon....and sometimes I am wrong (don't tell my husband I admitted that lol) but it might be best to decide "where" you want her to sleep -- put the crate there - cover top at night with towel or something --add your shirt -- give her a treat -- put her in and turn off the lights. In a week she should know "her place" and the routine. These little furbabies are creatures of habit -- their place to potty -- where treats are kept, etc.

Just keep trying and I think before long the newlyweds will be able to enjoy their alone time!!


----------



## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

I am smiling at what you said, Karen. You said it perfectly. DH and I are not "huge dog people", either, "it's just havs" for us, too. ;-)


----------



## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Michelle,

It seems like Havanna is a little princess and would rather sleep with mommy and daddy.  

I would also recommend getting a plastic tub or a small folding table to so that you can put Havanna at the same height as your bed. I don't think I would want to start the habit of sleeping on the floor. 

I know it can be tough to crate train the dogs. I have one that never goes into a crate unless he has to. One that crated trained herself and will not sleep anywhere but the safety and comfort of her crate, and one (Bugsy) who I crate trained since day one and he also always sleeps in his crate. 

Good luck,


----------



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

I owe a big "thank you" to all you ladies who have helped me over the last couple of days! Last night was a great night in the Maine household! I had to rearrange the bedroom yesterday (the hubby raised his eyebrows at that), but I finally got Havanna's crate on level with our bed. When I put her to bed last night, she curled up and went to sleep..no whining, no crying, no barking. Gosh, it was wonderful! She wasn't under foot for a little while today (when she's quiet, she's usually up to mischief!). I found her in the last place I looked; she'd jumped up into her crate! That was quite the jump for her, so I moved her little staircase where she can climb in and out of the crate. The hubby says it looks like her thrown. I don't think she really likes the idea of the crate (I'd put three of her babies in bed with her last night, and she spent some time today moving every one, one-by-one, into the livingroom!), but things have certainly improved from just yesterday! A good night's sleep was had by all last night! :whoo: I appreciate every one of you who has given me such great advice!


----------



## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Rock on! So glad you had a good night.


----------



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Havanna asleep in her crate.


----------



## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Awww - thanks for the photo! What a cutie pie. Amazing how they can adapt...with human love and perserverance. If you keep at it, you should be able to move that crate down to the floor in a few days. That may help with the "alone time". Great going Havanna!


----------



## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Wow!! You guys have come a long ways in a very short time! Havanna is adorable. How is hubby doing with the new arrangement?


----------



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

The hubby said "thank you" to me Monday morning when Havanna slept all night without a peep. I told him he needed to get on this forum and thank you all! I read a lot on crate training on the internet before I asked you all what to do, and NOWHERE did it say to put the crate at bed level. That, and getting a wire crate, were absolutely the keys!


----------



## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Maybe nowhere on the internet are people with velcro dogs as in need of human contact as our Havs. 

My Lola is at her dog walker's tonight for a trial run at sleeping over. Hopefully it will work out so she can watch her when I go on vacation for a few days. We'll see how it works when you move the crate to a whole new house!


----------



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

I hope Lola had a good sleepover! I haven't even thought that far ahead! I'm still crossing my fingers that I'll be able to move her crate to the floor someday! One small step for man, one giant step for Havanna.....


----------



## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Oh, Havanna looks so sweet in her litte den. I am so glad things are going well for all of you. I have found out during my years of always owing little furbabies that the earlier you teach them what you want - the better it is for all. I think it's better to teach from the beginning that to try to change a behavior or routine. It seems when they are tiny they learn in a few days...compared to a couple of months when they are older and already doing something bad. I've learned do's and don'ts and 'wish I had' by making many mistakes raising kids and puppies...LOL Like, my first child slept with us till she was 6 years old -- but my other two were put in their 'crate' each night and put themselves to sleep...
Send more pictures of that pretty girl!!


----------



## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Has Havanna's little crate made it to the floor yet? I hope all is going well with the training. I'm sure you are finding out that these little Havs are addicting....and love to give kisses.


----------



## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks for asking. No, Havanna's crate is still on its pedestal.  Besides the first night when she slept straight through, she has woken me up whimpering around 4AM every morning. I just put my fingers in her crate, and she goes right back to sleep, though. I may have acquired a permanent bedside table!


----------

