# A "mutt" by any other name...



## marjrc

... is still a mutt!  Nothing wrong with that at all, but when I hear about "designer" dogs, I cringe!

Here's a link to an article that will help in choosing the right breeder and type of dog you really want as a new member of the family. Maybe the perfect pet for you is at the local pound!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17616672/from/ET/

*"When you want a dog that's one of a kind, there's no need to spend big bucks to get it. Visit your local shelter instead and come home with your very own roughcoated Malibu griffon, Golden Gate Chiwienie dog or North American mottled shepherd.

Whatever you choose, and whatever you call it, the dog will be just as unique and special as a pricier pup."*


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## dboudreau

I was in the local pet store a couple of weeks ago, and was completey floored by what was for sale. 

Shih Tzu - "Purebred" $900.00. 
"Shihpoo" - $1400.00  
Beagle - "Purebred" - $400.00
"Yorkiepoo" - $1400.00  

Ridiculous and sad in my opinion.


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## juliav

I totally agree with the article. If I want a "designer dog", I will get one from the pound!!! I just can't wrap my mind around paying $1,500.00 for a malti-poo or a golden doodle.....rediculous!!!


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## jolynn

I agree. I have a friend who wants my pup to mate with her dog, who is a 'chorkie'. I guess that would be a chorkenese?? It makes me very uncomfortable, beside that it would break the contract. I just said that I couldn't because of the legal implications, but in reality, I don't want to dilute the breed. I bought a purebred, if I wanted to breed him, it would be with another purebred. If I wanted a mixed breed, I would adopt one, not mix one up in a 'doggie lab' for a designer breed


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## juliav

Joanne - if I am guessing correctly, a chorkie is a Chihuahua and Yorie mix. That sounds like one ugly puppy....sorry. Gland you aren't going to agree.


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## marjrc

"Chorkenese" !! ROFL!! The names that come up are nuts.

Debbie, that is both sad and very frustrating.  I just shake my head at the audacity of pet shops as well as backyard breeders that only do this for the money. There is no way anyone will convince me this is for the "betterment of _________ breed(s)" ! 

The thing is.... before I researched any one breed and before I got onto Havanese lists (and this would go for any breed online mailing lists/groups), I had no clue that designer dogs were such a bad idea! 

I was naive about it all until I learned and that's what I hope this forum does....... teaches those looking for a dog to really think about it, to really do the homework and make sure they aren't encouraging the 'business' of getting sick dogs that end up in shelters because they can no longer afford to or want to care for them. And God forbid more people decide to BREED these "designer dogs" even more! Can you imagine one, two, five generations from now?? Heck, those pups could go for $5000 if the idiots had their way!! 

GRRRRRRRrrrrrrr !


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## Missy

Question: weren' all breeds designer dogs at some point- weren't they breed and cross breed to make new breeds to meet certain needs?


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## juliav

missy_frederick said:


> Question: weren' all breeds designer dogs at some point- weren't they breed and cross breed to make new breeds to meet certain needs?


I am quite sure they were, otherwise we would only have a wolf or it's cousin or some such thing.


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## irnfit

I really don't want to get started on this subject again. It makes me really mad. You can go to any animal shelter and get a designer dog, and they are called mutts. I guess a rose by any other name, etc., etc.

But, on the lighter side, I have a cousin who has a Malchi - Maltese/Chihuhua X. She is cute, black and white, looks like a maltese but very hyper. My daughter has two Dachshunds and they are not fixed because she wanted to breed them. Her male has taken a liking (a very strong liking) to my Shelby and we have been trying to come up with designer names for them - Havahunds, Dachsanese - just in case.  Shelby will be spayed in a couple of weeks!


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## marjrc

Yaaaaayyyyy for Shelby!!  LOL

Oh my, a hyper Maltese, eh?


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## good buddy

While I've been researching fior the last few months, I've seen something really interesting about dog pound mixes. Often, rescue groups get dogs from the pound and I've seen that when the rescues have a cute young puppy, even if it is a mix they ask a higher dollar amount for it! I've seen dogs for 400.00, even 600.00 from a rescue, being called a "guardian dog". The money received for a dog such as this goes to cover surgeries and care for the others. It seems that even the price of pound dogs is on the rise.
I agree that if you want a designer dog, please get one from a rescue. There are some wonderful dogs needing homes!

*The down side of mixing dogs is that you don't always get the best of both worlds. Sometimes you get the worst. There is no guarentee of a non-shedding dog just because it has been bred with a poodle or other non-shed breed. The only way to get a semi reliable mix of breeds is to breed a pure bred dog to another pure bred dog! Most back yard breeders aren't one hundred percent sure of the purity of the breeding stock they have!


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## marjrc

"Most back yard breeders aren't one hundred percent sure of the purity of the breeding stock they have! "

*** Exactly, Christy!


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## jolynn

Okay, a Havenese and a Poodle. A HavaPoo.  

Sorry, couldn't resist... I know you'all were thinking it!


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## irnfit

Jolynn, don't laugh. The Havapoo does exist. They tried to sell me one at Shake-A-Paw pet shop. I was there because I fell in love with a little Shiba Inu that was there. I told the guy that he was crazy if he thought I would pay $2000 for a mutt and he said it was a "hybrid". That is when started researching more and more. 
I didn't get the Shiba Inu either.


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## dboudreau

Don't forget the "Havashu' to go along with that "Havapoo" 

(Hav & shih tzu)


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## whitBmom

Well, along the lines of Havapoo, you know you can also get something else from the Havanese + Shih tzu.....  Sorry, crude I know, but I could not resist


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## marjrc

whitBmom said:


> Well, along the lines of Havapoo, you know you can also get something else from the Havanese + Shih tzu.....  Sorry, crude I know, but I could not resist


*Neither can I, Catherine, it's what I thought of as well!! Hava****z !

Why yes, sir, I need a hava****z - badly ! ROFL!!!! 

o.k.......... we digress.......  *

HEY - it won't even LET me digress!! It just replace my letters with *** ! LOL


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## jolynn

No, my hubby said it would be a Shi**enese.


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## juliav

My husband actually thinks that Shih Tzu/Poodle mix is a must: Shi_poo!!!
They actually have those too.


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## whitBmom

*Hee Hee Hee*

You are all to funny! I burst out laughing drinking my tea - not pretty at all!  My kids were looking at me like "Okay..... my mom has lost it...." That was just too funny  ROFLMAO!!!


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## marjrc

Yes, I suppose some of our posts should come with a warning to have paper towels handy!


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## Laurief

THANKS A BUNCH GUYS!!! I have not been on much, having a really bad week with a wedding reception at my house this coming Sat (50 plus people) I am doing all the cooking and yesterday the bride had panic attacks & I had to talk her off the ledge. 
she wants to xcell the church, do only the house, call people & tell them not to come etc etc etc etc - its been crappy!!

This post made me laugh so hard!!!! it is nutty the mixtures that you can come up with for these "designer dogs" Little did my dad now when we were little that his "mutts" were worth somethin!!
 
Laurie


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## marjrc

Oh dear! It sounds like things are a little on the hectic side over there, Laurie! You are very brave taking this on.  

Good luck with everything and best wishes for a great wedding on Saturday!!


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## whitBmom

Hey Laurie, I am happy to hear you at least got a laugh  I am sorry to hear you are under quite a bit of stress. You can always vent at our little coffee shop, if you need us. I wish you the best of luck, and simply do YOUR best, that's all you can do and before you know it, it will be all over.  We'll be here waiting


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## Laurief

Thanks guys!! Wedding is on- she is calmed down so all is on schedule. My only problem is worrying that on Monday my baby Logan gets snipped. But I am sure he will be fine & the wedding will go off without any problems.


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## sema4dogz

I'm not sure where to post this, and actually I'm not sure how to start a new thread as the only one I started was as a new joiner, so sorry if I'm in the wrong place ….

Here in South Australia, the Havanese seems very little known, though there are breeders in Victoria and NSW. Often people on the beach say "what is she , a Shi Tsu cross?" or something. When I say "no, a Havanese" ,they say " a Habba …what ? I say "No, a Havanese, you know, Havana, Cuba" . Then I enter into to a short history lol. Spain- invading Cuba- revolution -fleeing to America-reestablishing breed world wide etc. I do this even when they clearly don't care, and especially if they seem not to know what/where Cuba is. If they ask about her name, Corazon, I give them the meaning of that too. 

I think I am now known as that boring woman with the cute Habbasomething dog.
Are Havanese really well known the US and elsewhere ?


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## Vartina Ancrum

Hi, I live in the South-Eastern part of the United States. I can say that neither the Bichon nor Havanese are well known in my area. When I had a Bichon, she was always referred to as a poodle. It will be interesting to hear the responses once I finally adopt my Havanese.


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## mudpuppymama

My Mia is a breeder “accident”. They thought her mom show dog was bred to a Havanese but the daughter’s papillion due to be neutered shortly did the job instead. I do not advocate mixes but I have the sweetest dog in the world. So I guess she is sort of a rescue. They were having a hard time finding a home for her. She looks pretty much like a Havanese except when her ears pop up. I do think there could be a cross breeding issue as her face is more refined than the typically Hav and her tongue will not fit in her mouth...always hanging out. Note I paid $200 for her...


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## Mikki

I don't disagree, admire people who adopt pound dogs and think the Designer Dog business has gotten out of hand.

However ... I will point out that *ALL Purebred *dogs are a mixture of breeds.

_WiKi: Havanese (a Bichon type dog) is the national dog of Cuba, developed from the now extinct Blanquito de la Habana ("little white dog of Havana"). The Blanquito descended from the also now-extinct Bichón Tenerife. It is believed that the Blanquito was eventually cross-bred with other Bichon types, including the Poodle, to create what is now known as the Havanese. Sometimes referred to as "Havana Silk Dogs", this was originally another name for the Blanquito de la Habana_

One day the Golden-doodle will likely be considered a Purebred Dog. IMO .... this not only a great dog but they're beautiful if you find a good breeder whose developed the dog beyond it's First Generation.


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## Mikki

sema4dogz said:


> I'm not sure where to post this, and actually I'm not sure how to start a new thread as the only one I started was as a new joiner, so sorry if I'm in the wrong place &#8230;.
> 
> Here in South Australia, the Havanese seems very little known, though there are breeders in Victoria and NSW. Often people on the beach say "what is she , a Shi Tsu cross?" or something. When I say "no, a Havanese" ,they say " a Habba &#8230;what ? I say "No, a Havanese, you know, Havana, Cuba" . Then I enter into to a short history lol. Spain- invading Cuba- revolution -fleeing to America-reestablishing breed world wide etc. I do this even when they clearly don't care, and especially if they seem not to know what/where Cuba is. If they ask about her name, Corazon, I give them the meaning of that too.
> 
> I think I am now known as that boring woman with the cute Habbasomething dog.
> Are Havanese really well known the US and elsewhere ?


My Reply to What is She: A Havanese. Know as the - Little dog from Havana Cuba.


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## Mikki

*This thread was started in 2007! What gives??*


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## davetgabby

sema4dogz said:


> I'm not sure where to post this, and actually I'm not sure how to start a new thread as the only one I started was as a new joiner, so sorry if I'm in the wrong place &#8230;.
> 
> Here in South Australia, the Havanese seems very little known, though there are breeders in Victoria and NSW. Often people on the beach say "what is she , a Shi Tsu cross?" or something. When I say "no, a Havanese" ,they say " a Habba &#8230;what ? I say "No, a Havanese, you know, Havana, Cuba" . Then I enter into to a short history lol. Spain- invading Cuba- revolution -fleeing to America-reestablishing breed world wide etc. I do this even when they clearly don't care, and especially if they seem not to know what/where Cuba is. If they ask about her name, Corazon, I give them the meaning of that too.
> 
> I think I am now known as that boring woman with the cute Habbasomething dog.
> Are Havanese really well known the US and elsewhere ?


yeah this thread is old. Please do not post onto an old post, but start a new one. :grin2:


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## krandall

sema4dogz said:


> I'm not sure where to post this, and actually I'm not sure how to start a new thread as the only one I started was as a new joiner, so sorry if I'm in the wrong place &#8230;.
> 
> Here in South Australia, the Havanese seems very little known, though there are breeders in Victoria and NSW. Often people on the beach say "what is she , a Shi Tsu cross?" or something. When I say "no, a Havanese" ,they say " a Habba &#8230;what ? I say "No, a Havanese, you know, Havana, Cuba" . Then I enter into to a short history lol. Spain- invading Cuba- revolution -fleeing to America-reestablishing breed world wide etc. I do this even when they clearly don't care, and especially if they seem not to know what/where Cuba is. If they ask about her name, Corazon, I give them the meaning of that too.
> 
> I think I am now known as that boring woman with the cute Habbasomething dog.
> Are Havanese really well known the US and elsewhere ?


Ha! You sound like you arewhere we were here in New England when we got Kodi 10 years ago. People would ask, I'd say he was a Havanese, and they'd say, "That's a cross between a Pekinese and a...." LOL! Now EVERYONE here knows SONMEONE else with a Havanese! I'm not sure if that is true across the US, but certainly in the North East.


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## Mikki

PHP:







krandall said:


> Ha! You sound like you arewhere we were here in New England when we got Kodi 10 years ago. People would ask, I'd say he was a Havanese, and they'd say, "That's a cross between a Pekinese and a...." LOL! Now EVERYONE here knows SONMEONE else with a Havanese! I'm not sure if that is true across the US, but certainly in the North East.


This is a 2007 Thread. I don't know how it got started but it's a 12 year old!!! thread you're reply to. :nerd:


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## mudpuppymama

Mikki said:


> I don't disagree, admire people who adopt pound dogs and think the Designer Dog business has gotten out of hand.
> 
> However ... I will point out that *ALL Purebred *dogs are a mixture of breeds.
> 
> _WiKi: Havanese (a Bichon type dog) is the national dog of Cuba, developed from the now extinct Blanquito de la Habana ("little white dog of Havana"). The Blanquito descended from the also now-extinct Bichón Tenerife. It is believed that the Blanquito was eventually cross-bred with other Bichon types, including the Poodle, to create what is now known as the Havanese. Sometimes referred to as "Havana Silk Dogs", this was originally another name for the Blanquito de la Habana_
> 
> One day the Golden-doodle will likely be considered a Purebred Dog. IMO .... this not only a great dog but they're beautiful if you find a good breeder whose developed the dog beyond it's First Generation.


I agree on the golden doodle. Check out Goldendoodles of Narnia. Amazing breeder!!!


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## krandall

Mikki said:


> PHP:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a 2007 Thread. I don't know how it got started but it's a 12 year old!!! thread you're reply to. :nerd:


The person I responded to posted just the other day. i know the OP was old... but the poster from the other day is not here in the US. I was just being polite and answering her. &#128521;


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## Mikki

Interesting thread even started in 2007, then updated. I see someone found and replied since they didn't know how to start a new thread .... which isn't all that obvious.


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## Vartina Ancrum

Labradoodles and Goldendoodles from reputable breeders are beautiful dogs. Let's keep in mind that every breeder of pure breeds isn't reputable breeders. I communicated with a breeder, and she made a snobby remark about mixed breeds, and I scratched off her my list. It's a personal preference. My daughter's Australian Labradoodle breeder is very informative and ethical. We saw both parents. She told us what color to expect in the litter and the size. As of today, this breeder was accurate. We still communicate with her. Should my daughter be unable to keep her dog , the breeder will accept her back. She is a member and officer in Australian Labradoodles Clubs. Yes, they have clubs as well. My daughter's puppy lightened to the color she said, and her weight is around what the breeder predicted. The dog's appearance and coat is like she predicted. Also, the health of mixed breeds is commonly better. I have owned mutts, designer dogs, and pure breeds. I can tell you that I loved my mutt just as much as my pure breed with champion bloodlines. Should someone want to spend $$$$ on a designer dog that's their preference.


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## mudpuppymama

Vartina Ancrum said:


> Labradoodles and Goldendoodles from reputable breeders are beautiful dogs. Let's keep in mind that every breeder of pure breeds isn't reputable breeders. I communicated with a breeder, and she made a snobby remark about mixed breeds, and I scratched off her my list. It's a personal preference. My daughter's Australian Labradoodle breeder is very informative and ethical. We saw both parents. She told us what color to expect in the litter and the size. As of today, this breeder was accurate. We still communicate with her. Should my daughter be unable to keep her dog , the breeder will accept her back. She is a member and officer in Australian Labradoodles Clubs. Yes, they have clubs as well. My daughter's puppy lightened to the color she said, and her weight is around what the breeder predicted. The dog's appearance and coat is like she predicted. Also, the health of mixed breeds is commonly better. I have owned mutts, designer dogs, and pure breeds. I can tell you that I loved my mutt just as much as my pure breed with champion bloodlines. Should someone want to spend $$$$ on a designer dog that's their preference.


Great points Vartina. I think there is a huge difference between willy nilly mixing of breeds vs. conscientiously breeding them. Narnia Goldendoodles is a great example of a conscientious breeder. She is also a natural rearing breeder of whom I have great respect.


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## krandall

Check with veterinarians. It is a myth that the health of mixed breeds is better than purebreds. (in general... of course there are a few purebreds that are trainwrecks, but we are not talking about those)

The rest I won't debate. spending money for mixed breed dogs is not my cup of tea, but if that's the way people want to spend their money, AND they are CAREFUL about the breeder... (most are not, and buy them from pet stores and puppy mill outlets) it's their money, they can do what they want.


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## Vartina Ancrum

Not all breeders of pure breeds dogs breed to standards. The bottom line is it is an individual's choice of what they spend their money. A true lover of animals wouldn't be so inclined against a mixed breed dog just because it does not have a pedigree. As for the AKC, it doesn't take that much to get AKC papers, and that's not a myth. I prefer a pure breed dog, but I am still researching because I want to make sure I pick the right breeder and breed. I still have some questions and concerns.


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## PensiveRN

I totally agree with you Vartina. Not all breeders of purebred dogs are ethical. Even reputable breeders have puppies who may wind up with an early demise- Maltese for example..... I have seen many pass before reaching age 12, mine included. They are prone to a multitude of health issues.... CHF, liver shunts, Cushings. I often see Maltipoos who live a full life....15 -16 yrs and I dare say the “poo” in them sometimes creates a smarter dog. I would never buy from a pet store but there ARE many hobby breeders who do raise cross breeds- first generation whose both parents have been genetically tested for health issues. They are raised lovingly underfoot in their home and properly socialized. You just have to do your research. In this scenario you also have a better chance of selecting the gender and color of your choice if that’s your perogative without a breeder “ deciding for you” which of their pups is “best suited” based on a few questions that may or may not be that relevant.


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## krandall

There is no question that there are many poor breeders of purebred dogs. we preach that regularly on this forum. Anyone who spends more than a day or two on this forum would know that. 

There is no doubt that WELL BRED Poodles are a nice breed. No reputable breeder of Poodles would allow their dogs to be crossed with another breed. Ask them. They will tell you. Therefore, it is a given that any "Poo" crosses start with underbred Poodles. Poodles are also a smart breed. No question. If you want a Poodle, get a Poodle, IMO. OTOH, they aren't the only smart breed. Having worked with them, I honestly prefer Havanese.

I also know several Maltese who have lived to 17 years old. crossbreeds do not have the corner on longevity. Again, I'm not going to have that debate. Talk to the vets. 

Oh, and I agree completely... I would NEVER let a breeder make the final decision on what puppy I got. Nor would I be naive enough to think _I_ would be the one to call all the shots when choosing which puppy out of a litter I got. What I would ALWAYS insist on, (and have never had a problem with the breeders I've worked with, nor with my friends who are breeders with their puppy buyers) is that I would always want the right to pass on any puppy that I didn't feel was right for me. I have never worked with a breeder who required a deposit, but if I did, it would have to be a completely refundable deposit if there wasn't a puppy in the litter that both the breeder _AND_ I agreed was the right puppy for me. A deposit that is just held over to another litter is a scam as far as I'm concerned.


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## PensiveRN

I’m not going to argue the topic of which makes a healthier dog either because I just don’t know- the literature from what I’ve read is mixed from “cross breeds living longer lives” to no appreciable difference in health between the two. I imagine you’d get different responses depending on what vet you ask.


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## krandall

PensiveRN said:


> I'm not going to argue the topic of which makes a healthier dog either because I just don't know- the literature from what I've read is mixed from "cross breeds living longer lives" to no appreciable difference in health between the two. I imagine you'd get different responses depending on what vet you ask.


I'm talking about going back to the scientific literature. Not asking for opinions.


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## PensiveRN

When you said “ talk to the vets”, I thought you meant “ talk to the vets” literally 😉 Another poster today started a thread linking a couple of scientific studies I had read earlier on this topic- very informative.


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