# Pet Shops



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I was just visiting my Mother in Illinois. When we went into the mall I was shocked to see a pet shop selling puppies. I haven't seen dogs for sale in stores like this for years. If any stores have live kittens/puppies they are rescues from the animal shelter around here. 

The store was called "Fur Babies" and guess what the marketing stagedy was? You probably guessed-----baby cribs! All the puppies were in white baby cribs! I just couldn't believe it. They had a puggles, chih, boxers,a maltese,a long haired dachshund, yorkies and a shih-tzu. Honestly----I walked in,looked at each and every puppy,scanned the place and left. It just made me mad. There was a sign out front saying 1000.00 credit,no credit checks,and no one was there working over the age of maybe 20. They all looked like teenage girls. I just couldn't believe it. About 6 mo. ago I talked my Mom out of a cocker spaniel from the pet shop. I told her about puppy mills etc. After sitting in the mall a while,I saw a lady and her son come in. The son wanted the Mom to come and look-"just look Mom"--the Mom said no-I told her they are puppy mill dogs....she circled around,but retrieved her son and never went in that I saw. I hope I saved her from the heart ache of a pet shop puppy from a puppy mill. What I wanted to know from you guys...is do you think people are just kinda dumb or what? Why would a person buy a puppy from a pet shop for 1000.00-3500.00 when if you were going to risk a pup----wouldn't you just buy from the local newspaper? A back yard breeder is at least a step up from a puppy mill isn't it? Why would you buy a shih-tzu from a pet store for a huge inflated price when you could buy one from the newspaper for around 250.-350. and not be at any more risk? 

I found it interesting that Oprah is out of Chicago---and yet 100 miles from there a pet store like this exists.

Any thoughts?:ear:


----------



## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Our yard service provider, and neighbor, was so interested in Scooter and then proceeded to tell us about their little dog, she's a Maltese and she's beautiful. He got her from a pet store and was thrilled because she was "discounted". I think he said she was about 14 weeks old when they bought her and the store reduced the price because most people want younger puppies. He tried to get me to check out the store before we got Scooter but I just didn't feel right buying from a store and at the time I wasn't even aware of the puppy mills. He said he'd go back to the same store if they ever get another puppy but if he ever mentions it to me again I'll tell him to find out where they get their dogs first!


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I am curious to know if your neighbor looked in the newspaper for the breed he was looking for and if not why? What his thoughts were at why a pet shop would be better then an ad in the paper?

It just seems like you would be at least less at "risk" with the byb then the puppy mill...not to mention the inflated prices the pet shop has.

I realize it could be a touchy subject,but if you do talk with him and he's open about it---I'd just love to know.


----------



## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Julie, I have one of these puppy mill stores in walking distance of my house. It is called Shake a Paw. Every time I pass by I want to break the glass and let all the puppies out. My cousin bought multiple dogs from them (7) and there was something wrong with every one of them.


----------



## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Julie-He was told about it by one of his friends. He raved about how great the owners of the store were but I didn't even consider going there. If I get a chance to discuss it with him I will.


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Is it illegal in some states to sell puppies/kittens? I wonder why here(in any pet shops I've been in) they only have animals from an animal shelter. 

It is just unbelievable....I do have to say though---it is a great marketing scheme.Most women are drawn to the name "Fur Babies" and then to see all those baby cribs....it was amazing.

Michele--do they market them like this as well? I was expecting cages,not baby cribs!

Thank goodness there wasn't a havanese there---but believe it or not---there was a chinese crested. I always considered them a rarer breed,but I guess I'll have to re-think that now that I see them in pet stores in baby cribs!


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

We have a pet store full of puppies in our local Boise mall. That store has been selling puppy mill puppies for as long as I've lived here, over 15 years. Nobody under 20 works there either. Shoppers walk by and squeal in delight at the beautiful helpless pups in the window. Surely these shoppers must have heard of puppy mills by now! Do they just block it out? It breaks my heart.


----------



## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I have to admit that the past two years, as a member here, have been the most eye opening times. Prior to my friend getting a Havanese, I never heard of them. I only wanted one because of the friendly loving nature of the dog. I was just lucky enough (and I mean REALLY LUCKY) to have found a reasonable breeder who had wonderful dogs. Had I not been steered in her direction, I might have gone to a pet store and bought a Havanese! Years ago I would have thought that pet stores were the "good guys" vs the people who wanted to sell you pups at their house. Call it naive, but that was how I was "educated". It is all in the education. Thankfully Oprah is letting people know who the "good guys" are. Thankfully, the puppy mill issues are getting to the public - Thankfully some of the pet stores are "getting the message", but it will be a long road, and we just have to keep plugging to get the word out to the public that pet stores buy from Mills, and will use ANY means (cribs) to make a sale!!!!


----------



## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

I had not seen pet stores selling puppies until I got here to Long Island. It makes me really sad. Yesterday we went to our local LI fair and saw 2 Havanese. One was 13 months and the other just 8 weeks. Both were bought from a pet shop in Queens. The dogs were very cute and they attracted quite a few people like me who were interested to know where the owners got them. The breed is getting so popular that we are going to see more puppy mills selling them. It imakes me really sad and angry that the puppy mills aren't illegal all over the country.


----------



## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Julie, the shop in my neighborhood just has cages, except for the teacup size pups. They are kept in plexiglass boxes. I have been to stores that use the cribs.


----------



## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Two words: Sick Bastards.


----------



## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Laurief said:


> ...Years ago I would have thought that pet stores were the "good guys" vs the people who wanted to sell you pups at their house. Call it naive, but that was how I was "educated".


I agree with Laurie. I think a lot of people believe that they are getting a higher quality pet by going to a pet store than they would get by responding to an ad in the paper. We have pet stores selling kittens & puppies in a number of our big shopping malls. They advertise on the radio all of the time - with promises about the quality of their pups, give guarantees and talk about the wonderful places these pups come from. These stores have been there for years so I think people believe they are reputable. They know how to find this store if they have any problems whereas going through the want ads - they may not ever be able to find those people again. And if they can get a discount.....well, we all love to think we go a deal!

I also believe many of the people that buy from these stores - and they are always busy - don't think about where exactly these dogs come from.

Before Oprah got involved, most people I spoke to had no idea what a puppy mill was. And honestly, while I'm telling them how horrible Tess' life was, they're looking at a dainty, pretty little dog who looks healthy. The cute little dog they can pet is much more real than a story about this same dog being malnutritioned, flea-ridden, neglected, dirty & matted living in a cage having puppies.


----------



## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

rofl...wow.. I work with men too much. 

The first thing I thought of when I saw this thread wasn't that 'oh..it's about pet shops that promote puppy mills and rip off customers for sick puppies' 

...the guys at work refer to the 'pet shop' as the 'strip club' ..so when I saw the title I was like..'whoa...wtf??' haha...

There's a mall petshop near where my dad lives up near Boston.. they sell a TON of puppies. I used to work right across the hall from them..it was ALWAYS packed with people and even now when we go to the mall I have to steer my mom and sister in law away because they want to see the cute puppies..


----------



## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

The thing I don't understand is the pups in a puppy mill store are more expensive than from a breeder. I saw Havs in stores in NYC and they were almost $3000. When I was looking a few years ago, they were $2500. Why wouldn't you want to spend that money going through a breeder who does testing and has a good track records with their dogs? I think it just comes down to the instant gratification factor. Plus, they make it so easy with a credit card purchase.


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I also see Laurie's point and think many people fall in that trap. I think if people don't know they go in and just fall in love. When I was in LA, I watched a maltese from the famous pet store where all the stars get their dogs. I think he was $3500 cause he was a "toy maltese." He has a horrible underbite, is very tall for the standard (thinking there is poodle in there), and just so socially inept- probably taken from his mom and siblings too young. When his owner met Isabelle, she was shocked and told everyone that is what a maltese is suppose to look like! She was also shocked at Belle's outgoing attitude and I reminded her they call them maltese terriers for a reason! And Belle would have gone for a lot more money based on her size- maybe after Sunday's obedience class, we should get Belle a crib and put a for sale sign on it 

I told her about puppy mills and she just didn't know. She fell in love with a puppy there- they were nice to her and she was still going back to shop there for him buying clothes and bags and stuff! She also has a lot of money so that wasn't an issue, she was going to get that instant puppy. Those darn breeders make you wait!

I just think the best we can do is talk nicely to friends and family members and inform them of where those dogs really come from. Also the pet stores lie and tell people they come from breeders. Even my MIL has asked where and it is always the same few states!


----------



## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Julie, I dont' have even a minute to read the other posts on here, but pet shops are more than a pet peeve of mine. I get very adamant about educating people on what type of pets are sold in most of them. I am glad to hear that you think it's "rare" and haven't seen any for years. Here in Quebec, pet shops ONLY sell puppy mill pups, but the public is so uneducated about it, that it makes my blood boil ! :frusty:

I want to read more and comment later on. Have to get to work now...... After what I've seen in the shelter, 160+ dogs rescued from a mill, there is no way someone is going to convince me that selling pups in a shop is a good thing. :suspicious:


----------



## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Julie, wow - white baby cribs? Talk about appealing to people's emotions. I think pet stores appeal to some people because you can just walk in and have a puppy the same day. It's so easy and anonymous - you don't have to go to someone's house, etc. My friend bought her beagle from a newspaper ad awhile back - she made two visits - one to meet the puppy, one to pick him up when he was a few weeks older. She realizes now the woman was a "backyard breeder" and her dog has fear aggression issues which she is bummed about. 

I think it is just hard to have to wait for something you really want to have. So many things now you can have "instantly". It really whittles away at our ability to be patient. I remember waiting for Lincoln to be born - it felt like forever! :biggrin1:


----------



## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I agree with Michele and Amanda in that it IS quick gratification. YOu go shopping, see this adorable dog, and they are telling you such wonderful things about it, money is no object, you can dress it up, show it off etc etc etc and BANG- they buy the puppy!!! Without MAJOR widespread education this will continue and continue. I think we are making some progress, but I feel it will take a LONG time before our entire country "thinks" before they purchase that cute fur ball!


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm really happy to come back to the forum and see the many responses/views. I guess maybe because we are kinda "rural" and lord knows,do not have but 1 pet shop north of us,I just don't see these type of stores. However when I was taking Lacy to the doctors in Des Moines---that is a big,big town---I also NEVER saw live puppies/kittens being sold for the "profit" in it----but rather,cages filled with animals from the animal rescue league etc. Is there certain states that allow these pet stores and some do not? Is it a choice a state/store makes? Who regulates it?

I was just shocked and surprised to see them myself---I did look at every puppy,and the one that caught my eye was the one I checked to make sure it wasn't a hav. The little white maltese. I saw no prices as they didn't have them posted,but the big sign of 1000.00 instant credit and of course my Mom telling me how much the cocker spaniel was. I was just instantly struck by the marketing(white baby cribs)and the name of the store. It absolutely blew me away! Then later I thought WOW!In Oprah's home state even...sad.sad.sad. 

Am I wrong in thinking a byb is better or a step up from a puppy mill puppy? I told my Mom,she would be better off buying from a real breeder first,then if not that a back yard breeder...because she would taking a chance with either pup(puppy store vs. byb) and her chances of a healthy pup were better with the byb....just in the sense that they are not necessarily breeding for profit over and over and over again. Am I wrong in this thought? I'm not speaking of havanese necessarily,but just cockers,shelties,dachshunds,etc.


----------



## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

*"..... -there was a Chinese crested. I always considered them a rarer breed,but I guess I'll have to re-think that now "*

*** I, too, thought they'd be quite rare and yet the puppy mill raid here 2 weeks ago found 6 or 7 adults and 4 CC pups. Unreal.

Like Laurie, I also thought getting a pup at a pet shop was a 'good' way to do it because I figured there was a guarantee, somewhere to go with questions, they were the "experts" after all. I'd visit pet stores all the time, just to get my puppy fix and see what different kinds there were. The prices are NOT cheap, some going for $1000-$2000, so my thinking was 'well, they must be good!'. :suspicious:

And then I learned. Once you know, you just can't go to one of these stores for your dog, or at least, if you have a conscience you can't. Most people are totally ignorant about mills and that pet shop pups come from those places. Others think they are "saving" the puppy by buying it. When you ask about the dog's breeder, you are told they can't just give out names like that, but that there's a guarantee. You just bring the pup back for another if it gets sick. Now we all know how that works!! I've heard stories at the store I work at and there are times I want to scream, other times, like yesterday actually, where I want to strangle the person! :frusty: This 25-ish yr. old, single male comes in and says he wants a good food for his new ONE month old puppy! Yup, 1 month. I blurted out, 'but why so young? where is the pup's mom?' and he said that it was good for him to get it so young as he could now train it well. When I asked where he got it, he hemmed and hawed for a couple of mins and said 'a breeder that wants me to have him so young'. Hmmm...... oh, and the pup is a Pit Bull. Nice, eh??? :frusty:

Julie, I also looked into ads in the paper when we were looking for a puppy. I saw that ShihTzus were going for $250-$350 and came from "good homes", so why go and pay some breeder a ton of money when I could get a good deal? But I didn't know. Then I learned and I would never ever even consider going that route. It would be a shelter pup before I go to a byb, simply because I'd rather save a dog than line someone's pockets who may not have the dog's (or his parents') best interest at heart. I think if you ask a lot of questions on health, the parents, their environment and years of experience, you just might get a good quality pup from the lady down the street. I'm sure many dogs have lived long and healthy lives that came from these breeders. It's just not for me.


----------



## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

You see what happens when I'm gone working for a whole week and have no time to come here and chat? I have LOTS to say!!!!! :biggrin1:


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I think I put mills in a group of their own. However, when we think of dogs without homes, sitting in shelters, overpopulation- 2/3rds of all dogs come from back yard breeders. So it is important to remember the effect that back yard breeders have. A lot of BYB are making money too. Look at our breed, often times BYB charge the same price as great breeders... in fact, they will allow you to pay $200 for full registration on any pup! They are often times doing the same thing the mills are just on a smaller scale but hopefully better living conditions for the dogs.

I also try to remember a lot of people aren't comfortable paying for a quality dog and they don't realize what it really does cost breeders that do all the work- the showing, the health testing, the socializing, etc. I think if one can't/doesn't chose to spend their money that way- I think the best thing is just go to the shelter. This way you can at least play with the dogs and see how they interact, and then you aren't supporting BYB either. I am married to a family that would never pay that type of money for a pet, but now they understand it. They also have never paid for a dog or cat but find/rescue all of them and they currently have many handicap pets.


----------



## Esperanita (Jul 12, 2008)

I went into one of these puppy stores over the weekend. I had gone to Petco and one other supply store looking for step-in harnesses and they didn't have any. I knew this puppy shop did from my online search. They had the harness, but I just couldn't buy it. The sales pitch from the young sales person was amazing. She was saying because the puppy had been there X amount of time it was discounted. The buyer wanted an additional discount and was told no because it is the only one left. Then she mentioned that they just happened to have a vet on site that day and the buyer could get the last set of vaccines in and he wouldn't have to go to the vet gain for a year. This ridiculous line was working! I couldn't believe it! Cuba is my first pet ever so I do not have much experience, but even I know that whole sales pitch sounded like a bad line. 

Then I looked at the puppies. Very few were purebreds. They had all sorts of mixes - yorkiepoos, etc. To pay those prices for essentially a mutt? I couldn't believe it. And then there were sale signs everywhere. Needless to say, I left.


----------



## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

Julie,

I have a pet store in my local mall. It is so appalling to see these puppies in cages, it just breaks my heart. We had a boutique place called The Puppy Place which at least had the dogs in pens, but they closed down about two years ago. I used to go in there occasionally to play with the puppies - I felt so badly for them. 

Now that I know about puppy mills and about how you are supposed to house break dogs, it goes against all reason to have these poor dogs in closed in areas with newspaper on the bottom of their cages. How are people supposed to house break these dogs? I imagine that is a huge reason why dogs wind up in shelters.

There really should be a national law against these stores.


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Is it actually illegal in some states to sell these puppies like this in a store? Anyone know?:ear:


----------



## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

Julie said:


> Is it actually illegal in some states to sell these puppies like this in a store? Anyone know?:ear:


When I was a child I remember seeing puppies for sale in pet stores. But, I only see rescue dogs in them now. I haven't seen puppies for sale in a pet store in Ky for over 20 years.


----------



## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Esperanita, I totally understand how you feel. I know that a large chain of pet stores has items I can get, perhaps on sale even, but I will not go in there and give them a penny. I just can't. To think that just weeks before we decided on getting Ricky and me learning all about good breeding, mills and pet shops, I was visiting them weekly! 

One pup, an English Spaniel, was in one store for 3 months! They had "discounted" the price for him, but he went from 2 to 5 months, living in a glassed in cage, never seeing the outdoors more than a handful of times, not mingling with other puppies and doing his business in that pen. What kind of pup do you think that makes for a family who finally buys him? :frusty: Ivy, you are right that many of them end up in shelters for that very reason. 

Isn't it just so darn stupid?!?! :doh: :der:


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Esperanita said:


> I went into one of these puppy stores over the weekend. I had gone to Petco and one other supply store looking for step-in harnesses and they didn't have any. I knew this puppy shop did from my online search. They had the harness, but I just couldn't buy it. The sales pitch from the young sales person was amazing. She was saying because the puppy had been there X amount of time it was discounted. The buyer wanted an additional discount and was told no because it is the only one left. Then she mentioned that they just happened to have a vet on site that day and the buyer could get the last set of vaccines in and he wouldn't have to go to the vet gain for a year. This ridiculous line was working! I couldn't believe it! Cuba is my first pet ever so I do not have much experience, but even I know that whole sales pitch sounded like a bad line.
> 
> Then I looked at the puppies. Very few were purebreds. They had all sorts of mixes - yorkiepoos, etc. To pay those prices for essentially a mutt? I couldn't believe it. And then there were sale signs everywhere. Needless to say, I left.


I know how you feel. I felt like that too.....I actually just scanned the store for their other merchandise.I was so focused on the puppies in those cribs I couldn't hardly see anything else. My Mom asked me if I even "looked" and I said yes--but I wasn't going to buy anything from them. Not one thing. One of the teenage girls was holding the chinese crested for a little bit-then put him back in the crib. I wonder now what was wrong with him....


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Julie- I think in most states, animals are legally considered property unfortunately. I know a lot of states have laws at what age puppies have to be to be sold but that is pretty much it.

I know there was a pet store a few years ago that the humane society was suing since so many people had sick/dead puppies- wizard of claw and I think they put them out of business. I had coworker who had a yorkie from them. They would take cute pics of these puppies dressed up. She bought a little yorkie in a teacup and when he was shipped to her, he looked totally different so she probably didnt even get the dog she bought online. He was healthy but he wasnt the tiny dog that she thought she bought.


----------



## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I would say about 18-10 years ago we had pet stores selling cats & dogs, I got one of my cats from one. I dont see it anymore. Thankfully!!


----------



## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*how much is that doggy in the window...*

It wasn't until I had my dogs and learned more about the breed that I was even aware of the world of pet store puppies and mills. I had no idea something like this could even exist in america. I thought pet store puppies were "marked-up" from breeders...so I never considered looking at that.

Honestly, I have always rescued pets before now. We had two senior cats and we fostered two rescue dogs at separate times on a trial basis. The first one growled constantly at Alana, and the second one chased our cats which would have been a disaster. I read about havanese, learned that they are good with behaving children, and get along with cats...as well as hypo-allergenic. I had to search long and hard to find a breeder five years ago.

Luckily I found the havanese club of southern california and met all sorts of great people and learned all about the doggy world from dog shows to puppy mills and everything in between. It was quite an education. I had no idea.

I think most folks probably purchase from pet shops with the same idea...marked up dogs from breeders. They have no clue. We have a dog in rescue recently that was returned to the pet store with hip dysplasia by the buyer. The poor dog stayed in the pet shop for months before being turned over to rescue who is getting it treated and will find a new furever home. How many are out there, I don't know.

And that goes back to getting a reputable breeder, I know there are no absolute guarantees on health...as I have one from a great breeder with skin allergies...but I have friends with pet store dogs and even rescue dogs that are costing them lots and lots of money with problems. And then there are those rescue dogs (like my 18 cat) who have never been sick luckily.

I am sort of rambling. I've seen those puppy mill videos and I hear the challenges these poor dogs have in rescue. However, the beauty of this breed is many many are given a second chance and after much love and time do amazingly well. The patience it takes from the foster moms and dads is the power of love...on both sides.


----------



## Atomickittyn (Aug 25, 2007)

Oh this thread absolutely breaks my heart. I know Yoyo would go crazy if he was confined to that small an area day in and day out. And considering how much exercise he needs every day I can't imagine the detrimental effect _not_ getting that exercise would do to a dog mentally! While everyone is ooh-ing and aww-ing over the "cute" dogs in the window it almost makes me want to cry knowing they are trapped in there like that. I wish I could take them all home and let them run around like crazy and free them but that's just not possible and it would just encourage the pet store to get another batch from those awful puppy mills. There honestly should be some kind of law banning any sales of any animals from pet stores! I wish there were some way to go about doing this. For now all I can do is stay away from pet stores so I don't have to look at those sad little faces...

What happens to those dogs when they get too "old" to be cute and sell anymore? Are they all sent to shelters?


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

It really is too bad that Oprah and big celebrities can not keep bringing up pet shops/puppy mills to the public. That way no one would have the excuse they didn't know about puppy mills. Don't you think? Education seems to be the real answer--as sales would drop from stores selling puppies in baby cribs and stuff like that--then you could go into a pet store and adopt an animal from the humane society like I see here in my area.


----------



## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Julie, it would be GREAT for celebrities and people in the media to get the message out and be common knowledge. In this "advanced" world we live in, we still treat our canine and feline companions worse than cattle. Of course, then there's the whole thing about how some farm animals are raised for food and we won't get into that!! 

I am working on making flyers to put under cars' windshield wipers. I want to go to the parking lots of these pet stores we have here. I've said I would do this since spring and still haven't and of course we are now going into our cold season, but I do want to do this. It isn't much, but I hate feeling so helpless while the business of puppy mills continues to flourish! If you hear about some crazy dog lady getting arrested, think of me. :biggrin1:


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

That's kinda funny to think of you being arrested for putting flyers on cars. You know that theres an old saying about best friends right?

Good friends will bail you out of jail----
Best friends will be sitting in the cell beside you!

See? We all need you to move closer-so we can join in the "fun" ound:


----------



## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Oh and what fun we'd have!!! LMBO :whoo:


----------

