# Spay/ Neuter



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Thought I would post an informative article I found on spaying and neutering! Full of info 

I'm still leaning towards waiting until after the first heat, the increased risk is pretty slight, plus I think it will be better for her bone health if I wait until she is hormonally mature. (Is that a word? lol)

Enjoy!

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Kara


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## Sunnygirl (Jun 1, 2007)

That was a very interesting read, Kara. I was surprised to learn there were disadvantages to spay/neuter - no one has ever mentioned them to me. I'm required by my contract to neuter, and my vet has recommended doing it right at 6 months. That article makes you stop and think. Of course, I guess that even if you can't justify neutering a male for health reasons, you can justify it for behavioral or population control reasons. I'm still surprised that the facts aren't more widely publicized, though.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

I have thought about that also but i have to neuter Jax by 6 months old. Its in his contract. I do think 6 months is young but what do i know.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Well, I'm surely wouldn't encourage anyone not to neuter or spay. I intend on doing so, it is just a matter of *timing* with me. I am apprehensive about the procedure before she is fully developed....like someone said in a previous thread, would you do a hysterectomy on a 12 year old girl? 

I did talk to my vet, and my vet recommends to everyone to do it before 6 months (for the cancer reason) but cancer isn't the only thing that can go haywire. My reasoning right now, is since the Havanese breed is predisposed to chrondodysplasia (a bone issue) wouldn't it make more sense to let her bones fully develop before yanking her hormones out?

I've learned through all my dealing with doctors (for human reasons) that they ALWAYS just tell you one side of the story! lol, or lean towards one school of thought, so they don't talk about the other school of thought.

I've been researching this a few weeks, and I'm a little surprised at how many females that were spayed before 6 months experience such radical change in behavior (almost leaning towards aggresiveness) and have various bone related issues years later and/or diabetes.

I haven't really focused on males, so I can't say that applies to them. But I think there are probably variances among different breeds, too.

I'm still calling my cousin (vet) and talking to him about it.

I don't know why I'm so fearful regarding this......maybe my gut is just telling me to wait. Usually, when I go against a gut feeling, something bad happens 

Kara


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Kara, are you contractually obligated to have her spayed by 6 months?


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I can't remember if it specified 6 months or not, but its too late now, anyways (she is 7 months). The contract is at the office, but I already have her AKC papers in my possession. I just looked at them the other day, and I can still file them after she is 1 yr old, I just have to pay $30 more dollars.

We went on vacation the week she was supposed to be spayed. Timing was really bad. I just couldn't see taking her on vacation when she was recovering, or even worse, kenneling her 

I do intend to keep my word and spay her..just weighing the pros and cons on timing. 

Kara


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I just feel the sooner the better, get it over with and they can move on. My girls did very well with their spay,the only day that I was upset about their condition is the night they came home from afternoon surgery. Within a week they were back to normal!!! I am sure that Gucci will be fine once you decide to do this. 
Laurie


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

*I'm contractually obligated to WAIT until*

Winston is 8-10 months for the bones to fully grow in before neutering.

Interesting.

Trish


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

Hello all!!!
My breeder recommends waiting until she is a year old. My vet says to do it at six months or earlier. I am going to wait until she is around seven or eight months old. I am still not sure if I am going to show her or not!!! I do know that I do not want to breed her. So if i do not want to breed her then I should get her fixed. I just go back and forth on the whole subject. I am going to take a look at that article. I hope all is well with everyone!!!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I just emailed my breeder with my concerns, so I'm curious as to what she'll say. I gather that breeders have different opinions on this, too...since they all have different vets advising them. 

*sigh*

Kara


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

When I first got Riley I was contracted to fix him at 6 months but then all these studies came out and we (my breeder & I) decided to wait till he was a year. I am very lucky my breeder is easy to talk to and will give her opinion to wait but always says I have to do whats right for me, my boys and my family. 

This is great information Kara, I do think everyone has to do what they feel is best for them and their family.


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

*So Meg...since Jillee and Winston and bro&sis & Leeann...*

Riley's a half-brother....should I be waiting until he's a year?? Where's the scratching head smiley?? LOL.

Trish


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Leann, 

That's great that your breeder took your concerns seriously. Yes, "Cancer" is a big scary word, but its not the only thing that can happen. I worry about bone health and other things too. What I like about that article is that it doesn't seem biased to one side or the other.

I'll let you all know what my breeder says. I do respect the opinion of breeders, but ultimately...when the vet bills start rolling in, I am the one responsible for them. I just want to make a decision that can *help* insure optimal health. I know I best decide, and decide quickly....like by Friday! lol, and stick to my guns.

The thought of a bleeding dog, diapers, etc....does not sound all that appealing, either! lol I know I would be vigilent about keeping Gucci sequestered!! Almost to the point of paranoia! 

Kara


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

LOL Trish, I was thinking the same thing you say a year, Meg says 8 months ,and I don't even know what my contract says.... When I talk to Kim she always says to try and wait at least 8 months . But with Winston, if it was me and he ends up needing any teeth pulled I would probably do it all in one surgery if I could. I guess the timing will tell for him, hopefully if he does need any work he will be about 6 months old and you can just get it all done in one shot. Surgery scares me anyway you look at it and if I know 2 things need to be done I would rather do them at the same time. Kim is great and will talk to you about all the different options but in the end she always wants you to do what is best for you and your pup. Just keep watching him like you are and you will know what is best for you and your family.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Oh Kara, I'm not sure if I could handle the bleeding/diaper thing either thank goodness you do not have a boy in the house. 
I guess I am very lucky Riley only tries to hump Monte every now-n-then but not too much, the sad part is he is the one that is fixed and Monte's not yet... Riley just has to remind Monte he is King Alpha every once in awhile. Monte is a couple day's shy of 7 month's and has never tried to hump anything (touch wood) thankfully.


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## Gableshavs (Jun 19, 2007)

*Spay/Neuter*

Kara, when you talk to your vet would you ask which procedure is better, traditional surgery or laser surgery? I have to spay Blossom and would like to use the best procedure for the health of my Havanese. One of the breeders I respect suggested we use the laser, but my vet does the traditional method. In fact, I have been unable to find any vets using the laser for spay/neuter in Miami. Still, I want Blossom to have an easy time of it and heal quickly. Thanks. Paula


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## EMarie (Apr 11, 2007)

Most vets recommend 6 months because it is at the end of the series of puppy vaccines...it is still fresh in the clients head then. The longer the client is away the less they think about it. Most people just forget about it and then they call when the female is in heat or has been bred and want the vet to fix the problem...or for the males, they are now aggressive (due to lack of training most people do not put into them) or humping things or running away from home. So it is more of a defensive suggestion and I read that report I have read so many of them saying the opposite of that one and some agreeing with it. No one really knows the exacts...but I can say that cancer can hit any animal regardless of what you have or have not done...I have delt with cancer (with our clients and personally) and some have done everything "by the book" and other have done nothing " by the book" and still ended up in the same situation. So just go with your gut instincts...get all the information you can and make your own dicission (sp), that way you won't have any regrets!!!!

Erin

P.S. dogs get fat after the surgery ( both male and female) because their metabolism changes (due to lack of hormons) and the owners do not change their daily life. Diet stays the same and now the pet is not as active as they were with all the activiness, not all dogs get fat...mine did not b/c I increased exercise and talored the diet.


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## marbenv (May 31, 2007)

Kara,

Thanks for that link. It was an interesting article. I've been trying to do some research to decide what was the best time to neuter Oscar. We signed s contract-by 9 months, but I want to do what is best for him. This article makes it sound like healthwise-NO neutering is best for males, but I don't want to deal with the marking, humping, etc. either!!:frusty: 

Marsha


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

My breeder recommended spaying at 6 months, but my vet wants to wait until she is atleast 6# so he prefers to wait (she is only 4.4# at 4.66 months). When I let my breeder know, she was fine with that plan.


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## dotndani (Mar 19, 2007)

Very informatice article,but I too got the feeling that the authors would rather not neuter/spay,but I also don't want to deal with the humping and marking!!
As far as the weight gain goes,my vet says it doesn't necessary happen to every dog.It depends on the owner,whether they take the dog for walks,play,etc.


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

*Hate to tell you...but....*

the humping doesn't necessarily stop after spay/neuter. Quincy humped until the end...my mom's FEMALE dachshund humps on occasion [she's been spayed for a couple years]...it's also a dominance thing as well as it just feels darn good. :biggrin1: LOL.

Winston has two 'friends' that he goes at [he's not neutered yet], a duck and a teddy...sadly my kids are mimicking it. :frusty: They say he's 'dancing'. :biggrin1: Hope they don't do it on the dance floor. LOL. I don't anticipate it stopping when he's neutered.

Trish


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## NBCZero (Jul 22, 2007)

LOL picturing cute Winston "dancing" with the duck and teddy! That is too much! I am right there with you banging my head when my kids mimic things - ugh!

Dixie


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

All three of mine, two girls, and one boy hump. They never do it to people, but they do it to each other as a sign of who is the boss. I just sternly tell them to stop and they do. So, sometimes the humping could have a different meaning.


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## EMarie (Apr 11, 2007)

humping is not always a sexual thing...it has more to do with the dogs trying to be dominant over the other dog...so if you are having an issue with humping you need to deal with the bigger issue and that is who is really in charge at that house...I am never had a humping issue with any of my dogs but I do in depth training and they know I am alpha in my pack!!!!
Erin


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