# SOMETHING seems to be going around!!!



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

OK, now KODI has a tummy bug! Yesterday late afternoon he asked to go out, didn't potty, but my son let him eat a couple of mouthfuls of grass sticking through the snow beside the garage. (this is not unusual... we call him our little cow because he eats so much grass... always has) The one came in, and immediately puked all over my brand new couch. Cleaned that all up with Resolve.

He seemed to feel alright after that, and was his normal, chipper self. So when he started begging for supper, (a little late, but not TOO late) I fed him some chicken and rice, which he wolfed down, and gave him half a Pepcid. 

He seemed fine all night, so this morning, I fed him normally. He ran downstairs and asked Dave to let him out, then ran back up to get in bed with me, as usual. One smell, and I realized we had a problem. Into the shower for a butt bath, with clear evidence of diarrhea down his legs and tail. Got him cleaned up, but it happened twice more. (so two more butt baths) I feel bad for him running outside with a wet butt in this weather, but I don't know what else to do. He certainly wouldn't appreciate me dryer-ing his butt numerous times today!

He seems fine otherwise... not acting sick. So I think it's back to chicken and rice and Pepcid, and I'll add some pumpkin and double his probiotics too, for the next few days. If he seemed to feel sick, I'd take him to the vet. But without other symptoms, I know she'd just say to do what I'm doing.

I'm not sure if he picked something up at the trial, (though I never let him touch noses with other dogs at trials, and he ONLY drinks his own water out of his own bowl) or whether he ate something that didn't agree with him. (though I don't know what) But we skipped class this morning for two reasons. One, if he's got a bug, I don't want him "sharing", and also, I don't want him even eating training treats. That's actually the hardest part... staying home isn't bad, but he LOVES to work, and we usually have short training sessions several times a day. I don't dare give him anything extra until his tummy is back in order. Maybe he'd work for grains of rice?!?!:biggrin1:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm sorry he isn't feeling well Maddie has been a bit under the weather lately and she got sick on my bed. Although one of mine poops are looking constipated I'm not sure who. Hope Mr KODI gets better real soon.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

awwwww, poor guy! Hope he has a restful day and feels better soon!!


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Hope he feels better soon. Hanna had a virus as a puppy and she had diahhrea all night. About eight but baths later and a trip to the vet the next morning, and she was good as new within a couple of days.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks, everyone. He doesn't seem to feel awful, though I'm letting him lay low today. And he hasn't had any more diarrhea since this morning. I think I just made a BIG mistake thinking the vomiting last night was just a one time thing, and feeding him his usual breakfast. Chicken and rice tonight, for sure!!!


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

Don't know if this is of any significance, but last winter canine flu appeared on the Cape. All doggie daycares, groomers, vets, etc. we're encouraging flu shots for dogs who came in contact with other dogs. It was, initially, a series of two shots followed by yearly boosters. I just received Tyler's reminder card that he is due for his booster and made an appointment for him. Don't know if tummy upsets are part of this particular flu, but I do know that respiratory issues are - just like humans. It's worth a thought.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

sandypaws said:


> Don't know if this is of any significance, but last winter canine flu appeared on the Cape. All doggie daycares, groomers, vets, etc. we're encouraging flu shots for dogs who came in contact with other dogs. It was, initially, a series of two shots followed by yearly boosters. I just received Tyler's reminder card that he is due for his booster and made an appointment for him. Don't know if tummy upsets are part of this particular flu, but I do know that respiratory issues are - just like humans. It's worth a thought.


He has no respiratory symptoms at all, and is not acting sick, so I doubt this is flu. I talked to my vet about the flu shot, and she didn't recommend for vaccine sensitive breeds that were healthy, normal adults. I suspect they may have suggested it for Tyler because a respiratory infection in an old dog could be very dangerous... just like older humans.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

Poor baby. Feel better soon Kodi.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Aw, poor Kodi! Karen, I just can't picture Kodi with poopy butt! Hope your little man is soon back to normal. Glad he isn't acting like he feels sick.


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## FancyNancy (Oct 7, 2009)

So sorry Karen! Do you think that the Havanese is a breed particularly susceptible to sensitive stomachs? I'm beginning to think so after reading the frequent entries like yours on diarrhea and also my own experience with Henry. He is on a Sabine diet - home cooked - and still I have to be really careful otherwise he is runny stools and vomity too. Sigh. It's a tough life but someone has to love them!!! lol. Hope all returns to normal soon.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

poor little guy! Hope he bounces back quickly!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hope he's doing better.


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

Hope he's feeling better.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

FancyNancy said:


> So sorry Karen! Do you think that the Havanese is a breed particularly susceptible to sensitive stomachs? I'm beginning to think so after reading the frequent entries like yours on diarrhea and also my own experience with Henry. He is on a Sabine diet - home cooked - and still I have to be really careful otherwise he is runny stools and vomity too. Sigh. It's a tough life but someone has to love them!!! lol. Hope all returns to normal soon.


Actually, Kodi hardly ever has had loose stools. The only other time was also after several trials in a row. Dogs that show get exposed to a lot more germs than dogs who stay home... sort of like kids in school. The last time, he actually acted like he didn't feel great the day before obvious tummy trouble started. Not terrible, but just a bit sluggish. He still won his classes that day, and other people thought he seemed fine, but I could tell the difference. He didn't have his normal bounce in his step. We were also traveling at the time, which made it harder to deal with.

This time we weren't actually AT a show when his first symptoms came on. He seems pretty happy, but nothing much is being asked of him either. Fortunately, having had our previous experience, I put him right on the chicken and rice, upped his probiotics and gave him some Pepcid. He has had no vomiting since the one time last night, and no diarrhea since this morning. But I won't make the mistake I did last time of putting him back on regular food too soon. I'll give his tummy several days to settle down first!

So, back to your original question, based on the other competition dogs I know, I don't think he has any more problems than any of the others. It has only happened to us twice in 3 years. Can't say about Havanese in general, because he's the only one I've got! 

Oh... I forgot about his BIG "tummy trouble" that put him in the hospital. But that was a blockage cause by swallowing a big piece of a Greenie. That was just a "dumb dog eating something he shouldn't" thing ;-) The ER docs told me that Greenies are the number one reason for intestinal blockages they see, even more than raw hide.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks, everyone! He seems to be "resting comfortably" this evening. No more vomiting or diarrhea, and was THRILLED with his "fancy" supper.:biggrin1:


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I hope he's all better tomorrow.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Glad Kodi is feeling a bit better!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Hope Kodi is all better today.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

He's still not 100%. He's eating fine, and no more loose poop (thanks to the chicken and rice!) but he is WAY too interested in eating grass. I had to pick him up and carry him back into the house (at 6:30 in my PJ's!) to get him to stop eating grass this morning. THAT'S not normal. He doesn't seem to feel awful or anything though. I think it just needs to run its course.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

After looking like things were improving over the last couple of days, Kodi had a MISERABLE night last night. He started by a huge diarrhea in the evening, followed by the obligate butt bath. But then near bed time, he started crying, licking his lips and pacing, which lasted most of the night. He asked to go out over and over, but when I took him out, he would just hurry around in circles, looking like he wanted to find a place to go, but didn't. FINALLY around 4AM, he had yet another bout of diarrhea. After that, he seemed more comfortable, and slept the rest of the night. But then this morning, he kept asking to go out and just peeing. The first one sounded like gallons, but then he KEPT asking, and just made little dribbles.

This morning I decided he really needed to see the vet. It turns out he has a Clostridium infection, poor guy! She sent us home with antibiotics and some very powerful probiotics that I'm supposed to give him 3 times a day for a few days, then taper to 2 times a day. He can't have ANYTHING to eat for 24 hours (which he really isn't complaining about, so I don't think he was very hungry anyway) and then she wants me to switch him from the chicken, rice and pumpkin to boiled chicken (or turkey) and sweet potato. So I did a bunch of dog food cooking this evening. Felt like Tammy!ound: She said she thought it was most likely that he just doesn't know WHAT is making his tummy uncomfortable, so is trying anything he can think of, and that's why he keeps trying to pee.

He slept a lot this afternoon... I think he was as exhausted as I was! But this evening, he's licking his lips a lot, asking to go out over and over, and doing the peeing over and over thing. I've gotten two doses of probiotics into him so far, and one dose of antibiotics. I'll give him another dose of antibiotics just before bed. I have to give the two meds at least an hour apart, so it will be a bit of a juggling act for the first few days. The vet said they usually start feeling better pretty fast once they are on the antibiotics.

Hope my poor little guy feels better tomorrow!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Poor Kodi! It is awful when our little guys are sick and don't understand! Hang in there, Kodi and Karen. Sounds like it will be another long night for you two.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hope he's feeling better soon, Karen. Yeah I still think the best thing for diahrea is a twenty four hour fast. Keep us posted.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> hope he's feeling better soon, Karen. Yeah I still think the best thing for diahrea is a twenty four hour fast. Keep us posted.


That will, hopefully, help his insides settle down. But it wouldn't have, in itself, solved this problem. The good news is that she told me it isn't contagious. I guess there are two different types. One is present in a dog's gut all the time, but under certain circumstances, they can have an overgrowth that crowds out good bacteria and makes them sick. The other (and I think this is the one that also causes C. diff. in people, though it's not as bad in healthy dogs) comes from either bad meat OR rotting vegetation of all things.

I know he didn't get ahold of any bad meat... unlike Linda's Scudder, Kodi hasn't had the opportunity for scavenging in a while!:biggrin1: But he is ALWAYS eating grass in the yard. He has always done it, and I've never thought anything of it. It never seemed to do him any harm. But I'm wondering with all the freeze/thaw weather we've had this week, whether he might have picked up the bacteria that way. I guess it doesn't really matter. Both respond to the same antibiotics.

BTW, to anyone else whose dog might come down with this, the vet told me that as soon as I told her how foul smelling his poop was, (it usually has only a very mild, and not unpleasant odor) she knew exactly what we were dealing with. She also checked his fecal sample under the microscope to confirm, but she said Clostridium is known for making their poop smell really bad. She said the same thing that caused the smell so bad also caused them to have really bad gas, which is why they get so painful.


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## FancyNancy (Oct 7, 2009)

YAY for you (and the Vet) for figuring it out. And now I hope poor Kodi is on his way to feeling better and that both of you are on your way to SLEEPING!!! Sounds like quite a workout. You are a wonderful Mommy and Kodi is so lucky to have you. Sleep tight tonight hopefully.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks!


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## Ruthi (Nov 10, 2011)

Hope it is back to normal soon for you.


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## Zarika (Dec 16, 2012)

Hope Kodi feels better soon! 

PS: the C. diff in people is usually after antibiotics. The antibiotics kill all the good bacteria and leave only a disproportionate amount of Clostridium (which are always present, but are usually way outnumbered).


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## Ditto's Mom (Apr 29, 2007)

Hope Kodi is feeling better today.


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## Georgette (Jan 3, 2013)

Hope Kodi is feeling better really soon! I am glad you found out what the problem was, so now he can be feeling himself very soon! Good luck Karen!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

He did have one bout of diarrhea last night (and another butt bath!) but he then settled down and slept comfortably the rest of the night. We both slept until 10:00 this morning!!! He's not really hungry, so it hasn't been a problem withholding food. He LOVES eggs, and even when we made eggs for breakfast, he wasn't hanging around waiting for them. Got another dose of abx and probiotics into him and now he's sleeping again. The only thing that worries me is that he hasn't peed since last night, which says to me that he's not drinking enough. He did drink some this morning, but I can't get any extra into him.


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## Zarika (Dec 16, 2012)

Maybe just call the vet and ask if some chicken broth (low sodium) would be okay? An easy way to get some extra fluid into him.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Oh I am sorry to read this Karen. But I know you and Kodi are in good hands (I <3 our vet) Are you you using the probiotic in the metered syringe? 

I hope he gets back yo normal soon.


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

Oh, Karen, I'm so sorry to hear about Kodi's tummy issues. I hope he feels better real soon and glad you were both able to sleep in this am. (((Hugs))) Keep your chin up!


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## Beau's mom (Oct 6, 2011)

Just catching up . . . sorry to hear of Kodi's tummy troubles! Sure hope the antibiotics do their job in a hurry and he gets back to normal real soon.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Zarika said:


> Maybe just call the vet and ask if some chicken broth (low sodium) would be okay? An easy way to get some extra fluid into him.


The vet's office isn't open on Sunday, and I really don't want to give him anything that could get his tummy going again. He did pee this evening, so hopefully he's drinking enough!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Missy said:


> Oh I am sorry to read this Karen. But I know you and Kodi are in good hands (I <3 our vet) Are you you using the probiotic in the metered syringe?
> 
> I hope he gets back yo normal soon.


I love her too, Missy! Yes, it's the probiotics in the syringe. And fortunately, he likes the tase enough that he'll lick it off my finger. Looks AWFUL though!:biggrin1:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

That is a bad bug he has been sick for three days. Poor baby. I hope he feels better by tomorrow.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> After looking like things were improving over the last couple of days, Kodi had a MISERABLE night last night. He started by a huge diarrhea in the evening, followed by the obligate butt bath. But then near bed time, he started crying, licking his lips and pacing, which lasted most of the night. He asked to go out over and over, but when I took him out, he would just hurry around in circles, looking like he wanted to find a place to go, but didn't. FINALLY around 4AM, he had yet another bout of diarrhea. After that, he seemed more comfortable, and slept the rest of the night. But then this morning, he kept asking to go out and just peeing. The first one sounded like gallons, but then he KEPT asking, and just made little dribbles.
> 
> This morning I decided he really needed to see the vet. It turns out he has a Clostridium infection, poor guy! She sent us home with antibiotics and some very powerful probiotics that I'm supposed to give him 3 times a day for a few days, then taper to 2 times a day. He can't have ANYTHING to eat for 24 hours (which he really isn't complaining about, so I don't think he was very hungry anyway) and then she wants me to switch him from the chicken, rice and pumpkin to boiled chicken (or turkey) and sweet potato. So I did a bunch of dog food cooking this evening. Felt like Tammy!ound: She said she thought it was most likely that he just doesn't know WHAT is making his tummy uncomfortable, so is trying anything he can think of, and that's why he keeps trying to pee.
> 
> ...


 I'm going backwards and am now reading this. How do they test for Clostridium infection ? I'm going to have to look it up. When Zoey was about 7 mo old she got diarrhea at a dog and other dogs were getting sick too. My breeder friend gave me a bottle of pills that were suppose to help I don't remember what they were but a lot of show people bring it with them. She said Its what the vet would give but you can buy it at feed stores too. I never gave it to her because I didn't really know what it was. Do you have any idea what it may have been? Or anyone else?
Any way I'm going back to continue reading about poor baby Kodi.
Maddie has still been eating grass and then throwing it up but her poops are fine.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I found this on pet meds site:
Your veterinarian may prescribe a week’s worth of oral antibiotics if the Clostridium perfringens toxin is found. Dogs that are being treated for long-term cases of diarrhea may need to be given antibiotics for a longer period of time.

Dietary management is also helpful in the treatment of this condition. High-fiber diets and diets formulated with prebiotic and probiotic ingredients (like lactobacillus) can help to balance and maintain the intestinal flora of the gastrointestinal tract.

Living and Management

This disease is treated and managed in long-term cases by switching your pet to a high in fiber diet, which reduces Clostridium perfringens and enterotoxin production in the intestinal tract. Your veterinarian might also recommend that you supplement your dog's high-fiber diet with psyllium, a soluble source of fiber. Prebiotic and probiotic diets might also be recommended by your veterinarian in order to try to maintain the normal balance of good bacteria in your dog's intestine.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yup. That's pretty much it, Suzi. There are several species of Clostridium, but since they all respond to the same type of antibiotics, it really doesn't matter which one the dog has. It can be dx'd from a fecal sample. (which I brought with me when I took Kodi to the vet)

There are lots of things that can cause a dog to have diarrhea, so I'm not sure what your show friends were trying to treat. People who are not trained veterinarians should NEVER be passing around antibiotics, and I doubt you can buy them in feed stores, so I'm not sure what they were giving their dogs. I think you did the right thing NOT giving it to Zoey.

Kodi had a little chicken and sweet potato for supper. He's still licking his lips as if he's slightly nauseated, but (knock wood) so far this evening we haven't had any more diarrhea.


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## waybrook (Sep 13, 2009)

Just catching up with this thread - sounds like y'all have been through a tough few days. Hope things go better this evening and both of you get a much needed nights rest...


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## Beau's mom (Oct 6, 2011)

Hoping today is a better day for Kodi!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

*Just an update...*

Kodi seems much better today. After two nights wanting to be in bed with me, he's decided he's well enough that he wanted to sleep in his OWN bed last night.

He slept a lot this morning, but this afternoon was SO-O-O beautiful (sunny and almost 60F) that I decided to see if he wanted to go for a short walk. We ended up going farther than I had planned, because he was bright and chipper, and leading the way. He did spend longer than normal finding a poop spot in the woods, and looked like it was a bit uncomfortable to go. His poop was MUCH more formed than it was, though a little still got on his legs. We went through enough muddy stuff that I figured a bath would be in order anyway when we got home!

So I gave him a FULL bath (rather than the butt-only baths he's had for several days!!!:biggrin1 and blew him out. He looks great, and had a few minutes of RLH around the house when we got done.

He just finished his turkey and sweet potato supper (with probiotics added) and acted like he hadn't eaten in a week. A BIG change from the dog who was indifferent about his favorite foods for the last several days! I think he's on the mend!

I had to take a picture because he looked so pretty and fluffy after several days of "bed rest" (bed mess!ound


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

He really is all Boy!. I see him sitting on a black leather recliner. Well he would look better on a Red one. Glad he is doing better.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

good stuff, back to training, we want more ribbons lol


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

Glad you're feeling better, Kodi. You sure are a good looking guy looking so handsome in your clean, fluffy coat.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

So happy you're better, you cutie patootie.


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## Beau's mom (Oct 6, 2011)

Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy! So glad to hear/see this!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

That is great news - that Kodi is feeling good again! Such a handsome boy!


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## Georgette (Jan 3, 2013)

Great news!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> good stuff, back to training, we want more ribbons lol


Not much yet... the poultry/sweet potato stuff is a bit messy for training treats!:biggrin1: Besides, my obedience trainer is out with the flu too.

Tomorrow is agility night, and if he seems REALLY fine, I may take him for that... It's rewarding enough in itself that I don't have to use many treats.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Wow! I am catching up...so glad to read Kodi is on the mend. Gosh just when things are rolling along just fine, something unexpected happens! Kodi is a healthy dog he will get over this quickly.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

He's definitely feeling better, Robbie. It's hard to figure out how much wet sweet potato/turkey mush equals his normal serving of kibble. He seems starving, but I don't want to feed him too much and cause problems, either. 

The good news is that since we had to do the fecal anyway, they sent it to check for parasites (always another danger with show dogs, as I'm sure you know) and he was clean from that perspective.

The vet was right, and just a couple of days on the abx and probiotics, and he's a different dog. I just want to keep him on the turkey/sweet potato until I'm SURE we are well past all of this!


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

Antibiotic and probiotic for a few days, and Maccabee was a different dog!

Glad Kodi is feeling better.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Yay Kodi!!! and my oh my aren't you a handsome havaneezer!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

HannahBearsMom said:


> Antibiotic and probiotic for a few days, and Maccabee was a different dog!
> 
> Glad Kodi is feeling better.


Is that what Macabee had too?


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

I am just getting back to the Forum and am glad to read that Kodi has recovered from his bout with Clostridium. From what you wrote, it was no fun at all. I have 3 dogs (of 4) trying to eat grass on the lawn whenever we go out, and it is really difficult to stop all of them. They are really sneaky about it. They look as if they are sniffing, and then they nibble some. Fortunately, nobody's tummy is upset.


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## emichel (May 3, 2012)

I'm really glad that Kodi is feeling better. You can't keep a good doggie down!
-- Eileen


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

StarrLhasa said:


> I am just getting back to the Forum and am glad to read that Kodi has recovered from his bout with Clostridium. From what you wrote, it was no fun at all. I have 3 dogs (of 4) trying to eat grass on the lawn whenever we go out, and it is really difficult to stop all of them. They are really sneaky about it. They look as if they are sniffing, and then they nibble some. Fortunately, nobody's tummy is upset.


I'm not positive that's what it was, Starr... Kodi eats grass all the time. Too. (we call him the little cow dog!). I'll probably never know how it happened. I guess some forms of Clostridium they have un their gut anyway, and it's only bad if they get an overgrowth. That kind can even be brought on by stress. So who knows?


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