# Rabies Vaccine Question



## Planti (Aug 10, 2019)

Hello, My 5 3/4 month old Hav boy Bertie had his rabies shot last week. It was tolerated well, a reduced dose as he is only 7 lbs. I was told he might be a bit off, possibly lethargic.

He has been anything but lethargic, more like he has gotten into some crystal meth. He is racing around, growling at things that he never noticed before, like the furnace fan, birds out the window, bumps in the night. He won't come even when I say, 'treat'. (I know he can't be expected to come reliably yet). His play has become quite rough. He is still teething as he has a bad overbite and base narrow canines as well as delayed dentition. He will have crown reduction and partial pulpectomy and capping end of the year, so it is possible he is in pain, he is on soft diet and eating well, had some tummy grumbling and one loose stool the day after vaccination.

Worst of all he has regressed in his potty training and it is different. Before he was trained he had occasional accidents on bare floor, now he is targetting the Orientals and just after being outside. 

I have got him on long lead and upped the number of times we go out. He has a very big yard and I go out with him and praise him every time he goes. He has been lifting his leg outside and marking but the inside ones are not with lifted leg or up walls. 

I am not opposed to vaccination, though I am to overvaccination, he will have titers from now on. I am just curious as to whether anyone thinks this is a reaction or just that he is 6 months and has dental issues. He was such a good boy at the vet the day of the shot, my vet said he has a lovely temperament.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Planti said:


> Hello, My 5 3/4 month old Hav boy Bertie had his rabies shot last week. It was tolerated well, a reduced dose as he is only 7 lbs. I was told he might be a bit off, possibly lethargic.
> 
> He has been anything but lethargic, more like he has gotten into some crystal meth. He is racing around, growling at things that he never noticed before, like the furnace fan, birds out the window, bumps in the night. He won't come even when I say, 'treat'. (I know he can't be expected to come reliably yet). His play has become quite rough. He is still teething as he has a bad overbite and base narrow canines as well as delayed dentition. He will have crown reduction and partial pulpectomy and capping end of the year, so it is possible he is in pain, he is on soft diet and eating well, had some tummy grumbling and one loose stool the day after vaccination.
> 
> ...


It could be rabies miasm. I would seek the help of a homeopathic vet.

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/rabies-vaccine-side-effects/


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

mudpuppymama said:


> It could be rabies miasm. I would seek the help of a homeopathic vet.
> 
> https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/rabies-vaccine-side-effects/


Here is another great article on rabies miasm.

http://certifiedvethomeopath.com/treat-rabies-miasm/


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## Planti (Aug 10, 2019)

Hi MPM,

Thank you for those articles, the examples are extreme compared to what I am seeing. Bertie is still being a bit on the hyper side of things but settling a bit. We went for a short car ride after a walk in the rain and he fell asleep as he usually does. I got him a new coat and it was the first time he wore it and I expected he might be a bit uncomfortable but he took it pretty well. I mention this as an indication that he is not being hypersensitive to change but a bit to things that are not new. He is not fearful and eating, drinking, eliminating normally. 
I live in a smallish community and we don't have a homeopathic vet here. 
I take great pains to keep him toxin free (homemade human grade usually organic meats and fermented veggies, Berkey filtered water, no fire retardants in pet bedding or mine, HEPA filtered air, natural cleaning things). In Canada we have no thymoserol in the pet vaccine. My vet's recommendation was another shot in one year then probably never again. I have been following the Rabies Challenge. 
I guess what I am saying is that I had a heightened sense of vigilance about this vaccination and did wait a couple of months longer to give it to him than would normally have been done. We do have rabies endemic in the bats on Vancouver Island and had a recent human death due to a purported bat contact.
I am a human doctor so I know what our minds can do, but I will report my observations, which are possibly subtle or very mild, to my vet and continue to watch closely.
Many thanks, Lauren


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Planti said:


> Hi MPM,
> 
> Thank you for those articles, the examples are extreme compared to what I am seeing. Bertie is still being a bit on the hyper side of things but settling a bit. We went for a short car ride after a walk in the rain and he fell asleep as he usually does. I got him a new coat and it was the first time he wore it and I expected he might be a bit uncomfortable but he took it pretty well. I mention this as an indication that he is not being hypersensitive to change but a bit to things that are not new. He is not fearful and eating, drinking, eliminating normally.
> I live in a smallish community and we don't have a homeopathic vet here.
> ...


Wow Lauren, you are definitely a woman after my own heart with regard to protecting your fur baby from toxins! Great you avoided the thimerisol too. I am so glad Bertie is doing better and you do not think it is rabies miasm. He is definitely in great hands.

Someone in our family had a dog that became extremely aggressive after the rabies vaccine and they believe it was rabies miasm. So I have seen it firsthand. Very sad situation.

Hope Bertie continues to improve and his dental procedures are successful!

With regard to homeopathic vets, some work with you long distance. Just FYI in case you ever need one.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I think it's too late for this round, but you might consider getting some Lysinum to have on hand for his booster in a year. This is the homeopathic our integrative vet suggests with Rabies vaccine. (I believe Jean Dodds does also) Being a homeopathic, it can't possibly hurt, and it might help. Who knows?

I have one dog who is on a Rabies waiver because of a severe reaction (high fever that required hospitalization and supportive care for 2 days) so I understand your concerns about the vaccine.


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## Planti (Aug 10, 2019)

Hi and yes, when I saw your posts on raw I felt we may have similar thoughts on things. 
We had a vet who combined facets of allopathic, homeopathic, ayurvedic, TCM and naturopathic schools. One of my other dogs, no longer with me, had a great response to platelet enriched plasma prolotherapy to his previously operated knees (for severe subluxated patellae). It worked very well. She has since moved to a larger centre but I think she might work with me long distance if I see more difficulties. My usual vet doesn't always agree with me but he is always up for debate and never dismissive. 

I also had to take some account of my own recent activities, was I giving him less exercise because I feared he might be out of sorts, yes maybe. Was the weather causing something different to happen in the house, and so on. It is hard being a very vigilant dog mommy. 

Since we are maybe talking about other issues can I ask your opinion on desexing? Bertie is purebred but never intended for breeding and has a genetic dental condition, however, I can and will stop him from breeding. I have concerns about desexing routinely, as I have always done with my previous charges. I never had the surgery done before 1 year ( and not until 4 for my female who was never bred) but am now reading lots about the consequences later in life of desexing.

Really appreciate your input, Lauren


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## Planti (Aug 10, 2019)

(I think it's too late for this round, but you might consider getting some Lysinum to have on hand for his booster in a year. This is the homeopathic our integrative vet suggests with Rabies vaccine. (I believe Jean Dodds does also) Being a homeopathic, it can't possibly hurt, and it might help. Who knows?

I have one dog who is on a Rabies waiver because of a severe reaction (high fever that required hospitalization and supportive care for 2 days) so I understand your concerns about the vaccine.)

Forgive me as I am new to forums and so don't know how to do the quote thing properly. 

I did give a homeopathic by Adored Beast called Anti-Vaccinosis (thuja silica) during his last shots but it was specifically contraindicated for rabies. I did look up on Dr Dodd's site about what to give before rabies and I missed the recommendation of Lysinum. I will definitely search for that online before his next dose in one year, but plan to titre first. 

My last three dogs had no immunizations beyond 1.5 years and because I don't travel or board them and had regular veterinary health checks it has not been an issue. However, cancer has been a very big issue despite all my longstanding environmental precautions. They were not Havanese so will not bring them up except to say that desexing seems to cause a lot of stress on dogs. Some countries have banned it unless there are predisposing issues.

I would welcome your opinion and that of your vet if you care to share them.
Lauren


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Planti said:


> Hi and yes, when I saw your posts on raw I felt we may have similar thoughts on things.
> We had a vet who combined facets of allopathic, homeopathic, ayurvedic, TCM and naturopathic schools. One of my other dogs, no longer with me, had a great response to platelet enriched plasma prolotherapy to his previously operated knees (for severe subluxated patellae). It worked very well. She has since moved to a larger centre but I think she might work with me long distance if I see more difficulties. My usual vet doesn't always agree with me but he is always up for debate and never dismissive.
> 
> I also had to take some account of my own recent activities, was I giving him less exercise because I feared he might be out of sorts, yes maybe. Was the weather causing something different to happen in the house, and so on. It is hard being a very vigilant dog mommy.
> ...


I am not an expert on spay and neuter, however I thought that they can do ovary sparing spays and vasectomies. My girl and boy were desexed early because back then I knew nothing about it and I just did what the vet recommended. If I had it to do over again, I think I would leave the male intact and do the ovary sparing spay. In an unspayed female, I would be fearful of pyometra and I assume the ovary sparing spay would avoid this and the hormones would still be there. Please note that I am not an expert on this at all, so please get information from those more knowledgeable. My dogs are 10 and 11, both desexed early, and they are very healthy and no joint issues or any sign of arthritis. However, my girl did have a possible minor IVDD incident at age 7 and I have read that this is linked to early spay/neuter. She has been fine ever since, now 11, and I actually wonder if this was diagnosed correctly. I would also welcome opinions from others more knowledgeable.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Planti said:


> (I think it's too late for this round, but you might consider getting some Lysinum to have on hand for his booster in a year. This is the homeopathic our integrative vet suggests with Rabies vaccine. (I believe Jean Dodds does also) Being a homeopathic, it can't possibly hurt, and it might help. Who knows?
> 
> I have one dog who is on a Rabies waiver because of a severe reaction (high fever that required hospitalization and supportive care for 2 days) so I understand your concerns about the vaccine.)
> 
> ...


I have discussed it with my vet. I'm sure you know, things have changed over the years. My 10 1/2 year old (who started with a different vet) was neutered at 7 months. Something that makes me sad now. My next girl, who is 4 years 8 months had a laparoscopic ovariectomy after going absolutely nutso with a false pregnancy. We (and the other dogs) just couldn't deal with that. My youngest, 4 yo, is unspayed, and we have no pending plans of changing that. We will deal with it when/if there is a solid reason to do so, not "just because". Her heats are easy, Havanese are at low risk for both pyo and malignant mammary tumors, and I have my hands on her regularly. My vet has been in agreement with these decisions for the girls.

I am not militant about it. I think every family should feel comfortable deciding what is best for them and each dog in their household. The only one I have regrets about is Kodi, my oldest. If I'd known more then, I would have done things differently.

As far as vaccines are concerned, I believe in a minimal vaccine protocol. Again, Kodi got too much because I didn't know enough. The girls each got 2 puppy distemper and parvo shots, and have had only mandatory Rabies since. (just titers for distemper and parvo beyond that) Kodi is now on a Rabies waiver because of a severe reaction. My vet won't touch him with ANY vaccine! LOL!

I also use as LITTLE other chemicals as I can on them and still protect them against heartworm and TBD. We live at ground zero for Lyme and other TBD, so we do need to be careful. But we MOSTLY use management. We might use Advantix once or twice a season if we are heading into a heavily tick-infested area on a camping vacation. They get Interceptor starting in June, every 6 weeks, and ending in November. We titer for TBD twice a year, and for heartworm in the spring before re-starting the Interceptor.

That's the balance we've chosen and it works for us. But I think everyone needs to educate themselves and make their own decisions based on their area, their breed, and their own situation.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I have discussed it with my vet. I'm sure you know, things have changed over the years. My 10 1/2 year old (who started with a different vet) was neutered at 7 months. Something that makes me sad now. My next girl, who is 4 years 8 months had a laparoscopic ovariectomy after going absolutely nutso with a false pregnancy. We (and the other dogs) just couldn't deal with that. My youngest, 4 yo, is unspayed, and we have no pending plans of changing that. We will deal with it when/if there is a solid reason to do so, not "just because". Her heats are easy, Havanese are at low risk for both pyo and malignant mammary tumors, and I have my hands on her regularly. My vet has been in agreement with these decisions for the girls.
> 
> I am not militant about it. I think every family should feel comfortable deciding what is best for them and each dog in their household. The only one I have regrets about is Kodi, my oldest. If I'd known more then, I would have done things differently.
> 
> ...


Thanks Karen. Great information on the spay/neuter question. I think if I had it to do over, I would do neither unless some issue popped up that it would resolve, like you experienced. Glad to know Havanese are not at risk for pyometra which can come on fast and be quite deadly. Even if pyro does occur, I assume if a person is on the outlook for it and deals with it promptly the prognosis would be good.


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## nwhavmom (Feb 2, 2019)

Hi all! Just thought I would add my most recent experience to the discussion. With my current little boy I was determined to not neuter him. The act of neutering seemed unecessary, with health risks and to me at the time, even cruel. At 6 months he was potty trained. At 8 months, he began to mark outside and within the following two weeks he was marking EVERYTHING inside and out. The marking was completely different than being potty trained. I would take him out to do his business and then he would come inside and mark. He marked couches, draperies, walls, blankets, pillows- everything. I spent my day using the enzymatic cleaner never really being able to save many of those items. I began to wonder if I could get through this. Teddy either had to be in his room or gated in the kitchen. As soon as he was let into any other area, he would mark. I work from home and he is with me nearly the entire day. He did not mark when I left him alone in his special room (with puppy cam). When he would lift his leg in front of me and I could interrupt the act, it made no difference. I started to think maybe I should get him neutered around the age of one. I was so concerned about the health benefits of waiting, I tried to stay with him 24/7 to alter the behavior but marking is a tough one to break. After 3 weeks of really struggling with this difficult issue, I went ahead and had him neutered. Honestly, the behavior changed immediately. Since he was neutered, he never once marked again inside or outside. ( I am fortunate because I know that this is not always the case.) I also have to say, regardless of the literature, he has also very much calmed down which has made our lives much better. So, perhaps there are reasons to consider neutering and every circumstance is different. Teddy is now 11 months old with no accidents since his neutering nearly two months ago and is a little dream boy <3


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

nwhavmom said:


> Hi all! Just thought I would add my most recent experience to the discussion. With my current little boy I was determined to not neuter him. The act of neutering seemed unecessary, with health risks and to me at the time, even cruel. At 6 months he was potty trained. At 8 months, he began to mark outside and within the following two weeks he was marking EVERYTHING inside and out. The marking was completely different than being potty trained. I would take him out to do his business and then he would come inside and mark. He marked couches, draperies, walls, blankets, pillows- everything. I spent my day using the enzymatic cleaner never really being able to save many of those items. I began to wonder if I could get through this. Teddy either had to be in his room or gated in the kitchen. As soon as he was let into any other area, he would mark. I work from home and he is with me nearly the entire day. He did not mark when I left him alone in his special room (with puppy cam). When he would lift his leg in front of me and I could interrupt the act, it made no difference. I started to think maybe I should get him neutered around the age of one. I was so concerned about the health benefits of waiting, I tried to stay with him 24/7 to alter the behavior but marking is a tough one to break. After 3 weeks of really struggling with this difficult issue, I went ahead and had him neutered. Honestly, the behavior changed immediately. Since he was neutered, he never once marked again inside or outside. ( I am fortunate because I know that this is not always the case.) I also have to say, regardless of the literature, he has also very much calmed down which has made our lives much better. So, perhaps there are reasons to consider neutering and every circumstance is different. Teddy is now 11 months old with no accidents since his neutering nearly two months ago and is a little dream boy <3


Thanks for sharing. I have no experience with an unneutered male and I only know one male dog who is not neutered, a Shiba Inu. The Shiba Inu did not have this issue, but I assume every dog is different. My neutered yorkie marks on every single vertical "thing" he can find outside but has never done this inside. It sounds like you were informed and did your best to avoid it. The sanity of the dog owner is a critical thing to consider as well. We all do our best.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Thanks Karen. Great information on the spay/neuter question. I think if I had it to do over, I would do neither unless some issue popped up that it would resolve, like you experienced. Glad to know Havanese are not at risk for pyometra which can come on fast and be quite deadly. Even if pyro does occur, I assume if a person is on the outlook for it and deals with it promptly the prognosis would be good.


All unspayed adult females ARE at risk for Pyo, but some breeds are much higher risk than others, and Havanese are one of the lower risk breeds at 10 years. (the study I read didn't extend beyond that, and not sure if I'd stretch the non-spay that long either. We'll see. At this point, my vet feels comfortable waiting until at least 6 with otherwise healthy, non-breeding females.

And it Pyo is a loaded gun. It comes on fast and can be deadly. It means an EMERGENCY spay, often in the middle of the night at an emergency hospital with unknown staff (because isn't that when/how emergencies happen?  ) and it means operating on a dog with an already raging infection. Putting off spay indefinitely is NOT an easy decision to make. It is not the same as deciding never to castrate a male dog. And again, every owner has to make the decision for themselves and their specific bitch, based on their situation (like access to middle of the night emergency care and willingness to pay for what is going to be a MUCH more expensive procedure if it does happen) and willingness to assess and accept the risks vs. benefits. Yes, there MAY be some long-term benefits. We aren't sure. But Pyo CAN be a death sentence. Even if it's not, it is DEFINITELY painful, traumatic and expensive.

This is an excellent booklet put out by the Puppy Culture people talking about the pros and cons of spay/neuter, and actually cites all the research Jane used to reach her own conclusions. She also does NOT "tell people what to do". She just tries to give people the information they need to make their OWN, informed decision that is best for their dog and their family. Which is, I think, the best.

https://shoppuppyculture.com/collections/books-1/products/puppy-culture-spay-neuter-booklet


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> All unspayed adult females ARE at risk for Pyo, but some breeds are much higher risk than others, and Havanese are one of the lower risk breeds at 10 years. (the study I read didn't extend beyond that, and not sure if I'd stretch the non-spay that long either. We'll see. At this point, my vet feels comfortable waiting until at least 6 with otherwise healthy, non-breeding females.
> 
> And it Pyo is a loaded gun. It comes on fast and can be deadly. It means an EMERGENCY spay, often in the middle of the night at an emergency hospital with unknown staff (because isn't that when/how emergencies happen?  ) and it means operating on a dog with an already raging infection. Putting off spay indefinitely is NOT an easy decision to make. It is not the same as deciding never to castrate a male dog. And again, every owner has to make the decision for themselves and their specific bitch, based on their situation (like access to middle of the night emergency care and willingness to pay for what is going to be a MUCH more expensive procedure if it does happen) and willingness to assess and accept the risks vs. benefits. Yes, there MAY be some long-term benefits. We aren't sure. But Pyo CAN be a death sentence. Even if it's not, it is DEFINITELY painful, traumatic and expensive.
> 
> ...


Great information. Thanks again Karen. I do know someone who lost a dog to pyro. It was a super scary and very sad situation. That is why I originally mentioned the ovary sparing spay. I am wondering if this would keep the hormones yet eliminate risk of pyometra?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

nwhavmom said:


> Hi all! Just thought I would add my most recent experience to the discussion. With my current little boy I was determined to not neuter him. The act of neutering seemed unecessary, with health risks and to me at the time, even cruel. At 6 months he was potty trained. At 8 months, he began to mark outside and within the following two weeks he was marking EVERYTHING inside and out. The marking was completely different than being potty trained. I would take him out to do his business and then he would come inside and mark. He marked couches, draperies, walls, blankets, pillows- everything. I spent my day using the enzymatic cleaner never really being able to save many of those items. I began to wonder if I could get through this. Teddy either had to be in his room or gated in the kitchen. As soon as he was let into any other area, he would mark. I work from home and he is with me nearly the entire day. He did not mark when I left him alone in his special room (with puppy cam). When he would lift his leg in front of me and I could interrupt the act, it made no difference. I started to think maybe I should get him neutered around the age of one. I was so concerned about the health benefits of waiting, I tried to stay with him 24/7 to alter the behavior but marking is a tough one to break. After 3 weeks of really struggling with this difficult issue, I went ahead and had him neutered. Honestly, the behavior changed immediately. Since he was neutered, he never once marked again inside or outside. ( I am fortunate because I know that this is not always the case.) I also have to say, regardless of the literature, he has also very much calmed down which has made our lives much better. So, perhaps there are reasons to consider neutering and every circumstance is different. Teddy is now 11 months old with no accidents since his neutering nearly two months ago and is a little dream boy <3


And you should NOT feel that you need to "explain" or defend your decision any more than the person who decides not to neuter at all, but is also conscientious about not letting their boy breed indiscriminately. I think that's my main point. We need to educate ourselves, for sure. but then the "right" answer may be different for each of us, and even for each animal in our care.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

nwhavmom said:


> At 6 months he was potty trained. At 8 months, he began to mark outside and within the following two weeks he was marking EVERYTHING inside and out.
> 
> The marking was completely different than being potty trained. I would take him out to do his business and then he would come inside and mark. He marked couches, draperies, walls, blankets, pillows- everything. I spent my day using the enzymatic cleaner never really being able to save many of those items. I began to wonder if I could get through this.
> 
> I tried to stay with him 24/7 to alter the behavior but marking is a tough one to break. After 3 weeks of really struggling with this difficult issue, I went ahead and had him neutered. Honestly, the behavior changed immediately. Since he was neutered, he never once marked again inside or outside. ( I am fortunate because I know that this is not always the case.


I'll add neutering to prevent marking needs to be done at a young age. My mother had a Yorkie who marked everything, even though he appeared housebroken and had access to a doggie door where he could go outside at will. His pee-pee was such as small amount you couldn't see it and he never did it in front of my mother or me. My mother finally figured it out and had him neutered when he was several years old. Didn't work. He ruined expensive rugs and was eventually put to sleep because he was such a problem and unbreakable. An unhousebroken dog is the main reason they end up in shelters and put down.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

I waited until after Patti had her first Heat and then had her spayed. She didn't bother her wound and there was little down time after the surgery. I thought about removing only ovaries and after research decided there could be problems not doing a full hysterectomy. I didn't see a reason to leave a uterus without ovaries.

Correction: I researched leaving the ovaries ... referred to as Ovary Sparing Surgery - OSS which would leave the uterus and decided on a full hysterectomy. 

Patti had little blood and kept herself clean during her Heat. Those two weeks were problematic but not particularly overwhelming, although it did prevent me from going on a family trip.

All my dogs have been spayed. I prefer female dogs. The last one was a 17-years old and died of old age.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

It is great to hear personal stories. Sounds like there are pros and cons to neutering or not neutering, as well as the various options of neutering. As Mikki said in a recent post, there are now tons of options for everything and I think it makes it so much harder to decide! My husband and I went to the store for light bulbs the other day...after scratching our heads for 30 minutes, we left empty handed! :smile2:

I was curious about ovary sparing spays. On the surface, they sound like a good option, however there are still pros and cons! Here is a great article by a person struggling with this decision. They eventually went with the OSS because their breed is at high risk for IVDD. And IVDD can be heart breaking. I was involved with Dodgerslist.com for awhile and I saw this first hand. Anyway, I thought it was a great article for anyone considering this option.

https://bloggydog.com/the-pros-and-cons-of-ovary-sparing-spay-oss-for-your-dachshund/


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

there seems to be more of a movement in change for large breed dogs. https://healthypets.mercola.com/sit...n=20191113Z1&et_cid=DM388464&et_rid=748843545


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## Planti (Aug 10, 2019)

Wow, I missed a lot of replies to my queries and I am still trying to work out how to navigate the posts and quotes and.....
I am impressed with the thoughtfulness and candor of all the replies to the question of neutering. Every one has a point and they are all good points. 
When I found the Parsemus Foundation website I was gobsmacked to see that there is a vet in my smallish community that will do sterilization without desexing. I contacted them out of curiousity about how to refer if the time came that I had a female in the house (I am going to adopt another dog soon) and the links I was sent were intellectually insulting, about "men" wanting to keep their dog's scrotum intact and suggestions of replacement synthetic testicles that could be any size you like! I did not want to have to separate them from each other during heat cycles. Now I have determined that it will have to be two boys. Sometimes though people can't choose. 
My own vet who knows me very well through years, and who is a very sensible and nice guy as well as being the best vet in town, said don't do anything invasive if you don't have to which doesn't exclude brushing the teeth. And that is about the best thing I can think of. 
I really appreciate this forum, thank you.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> there seems to be more of a movement in change for large breed dogs. https://healthypets.mercola.com/sit...n=20191113Z1&et_cid=DM388464&et_rid=748843545


Which really astounds me, considering how much easier it is to keep small dogs intact from breeding than large ones! LOL! Panda is in heat at the moment. In fact, RIGHT now, she is in standing heat. Which is, frankly, a pain in the neck. Kodi can't impregnate her, but he can and will tie with her, which isn't good for either one of them on a recurring basis. So it means keeping them closely supervised or separated. If he were intact, the "closely supervised"wouldn't be good enough. I'd HAVE to keep them STRICTLY separated for at least 2 out of the 3 weeks of her heat cycle. But it's still entirely possible with crates and doors. Or just picking them up. They are little!

Big dogs make it a much bigger management problem during those 3 weeks twice a year. They can jump much bigger fences. They can dig out under fences. They can pull leashes out of owner's hands... They've been known to smash though windows to get out of houses...


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## Planti (Aug 10, 2019)

Oops that was ambiguous about teeth, vet of course is very much for brushing and so am I.


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