# Which puppy to buy? Male/Female, etc.



## ballteammom (Jan 12, 2008)

'Manhood' sightings.......

I am going to get a Havanese puppy. Do I want male or female? I have read that males are more affectionate in this breed but I've never owned a male dog and I am scared of him showing his 'manhood'. I have heard some people say their dog only shows his manhood when he is near a dog in heat. Some people say their show it all of the time. I don't want to be afraid to rub and play with the puppy but I would be if it 'excited' him too much.

Coloring....

How can you tell what color your adult havanese will be? They seem to do a lot of changes as they grow?

TearStaining....

How common is this problem with this breed? How can you fix it?

Anything else I need to know.....

Is there anything else I need to know about this breed? I think I've done enough research to be sure I like the breed. Any hidden secrets>


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

I have three males and I have never seen their manhood.

I would say get what you are comfortable with.

Here's a good website on their color changes http://www.mts.net/~mckay55/colours.html

One of mine has tear some tear staining, one has very little and one has none.

:welcome:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

First welcome to the forum. Havanese are wonderful! They also become quite addicting!

I think health is the most important issue, first of all. Did you check the health of the parents? Do they have Cerf numbers and you already verified their information online?

A lot of people say boys are more loving and more easy going but I have been told this is true for dogs in general not just havanese. I think the man issue- becomes not as much of an issue if your dog is a neutered pet. Do you plan on neutering the dog before he matures?

Color can help be determined by the parents. They are known to change color. Tear staining and mouth staining happen in a lot of dogs. I have a maltese that has always had this battle. The more I clean it and keep up with it, the better it gets but she hates it and I let it go, not as big of a deal to me. However, you might find a black havanese, gets it less. Nice thing about this breed they come in all colors. Has anyone had a black dog turn a different color?

Welcome to this forum, there is a search feature where you can find tons of information!

Amanda


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Hi ballteammom,

:welcome: to the forum. You'll get plenty of responses very soon I'm sure. 
Gender: it is totally up to your preferences and very pup is different. But you'll find lots of people here who started off with a female and then got a male and swear they'll only get males from now on. That doesn't mean that females are less good, but people seem to have different experiences with the males. Also you'll get your boy/girl neutered/spayed anyway (unless you want to breed) which *should* take care of the male behaviors you're scared of.
Color: colors of the rainbow is what you can find for Havanese. They really come in all colors and shades, but in order to have a slight guess as how your pup will eventually look, you need to see their parents, grandparents, etc. I also asked my breeder if her Black&White sire or dam had the silvering gene, which she denied. So that means there's a good chance he'll stay this way, BUT there's no guarantee. 
*HEALTH TESTING*=most important point to look for BEFORE looking at puppies. There are several threads on here about what to look for, this is very serious if you want to get a HEALTHY pup. I'm sure other people will be able to post links to other important threads soon, I'm too tired to do that, SORRY!!!


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Welcome to the forum!

My Beamer is 10 months old and I have NEVER seen his junk ever! I have never seen him hump anything before! 

Ryan


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## Elaine (Jan 17, 2007)

Welcome to the group, others have pointed out how important it is to check on all health testing of the puppies parents you are looking at. The website to check is www.offa.org and if you have the parents names you can look them up plus any of their relatives, also you might check to see if they passed the tests.
As to color and gender, I think what you need to do is hopefully find a breeder close to you and go over, sit on the floor with the puppies and see who picks you. You want to let the breeder know what you are hoping for in a puppy and hopefully they can pick something close, calm, spunky, etc. You will also find that once your puppy is home it's personality will change quickly to fit into its enviroment. They are very adaptable and will train you quickly if you don't stay on top of them, very intelligent also. If you go to www.havanese.org you can look on the left side for a local club to contact and hopefully meet some nice breeders. If you look around on the site you will find all kinds of great bits of information to help you in your quest. Good luck and let us know how your search goes.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Hi ballteammom and :welcome: to the forum.

I have two males, both fixed and no problems. I just love, love, love my boys!!!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

In general, I prefer the males for pets. They are so sweet, so wonderful and so much easier to train. They have a higher desire to please, so it makes training easier. There is nothing wrong with the girls by any means, but for that companionship and super sweet personality, I really like the males.


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

I have a male hav, and he's not really all that sweet. My female bichon mix is a real love, though.


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## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

They say that girls love you, but boys are IN LOVE with you. I have 2 boys!

The manhood (or red rocket as we refer to it) appears occassionally with 1 of my boys. It's funny, he's especially fond of 1 of my friends and everytime she comes over - YES, it appears. LOL! We laugh it off and he puts it away. Not a big deal. Both my dogs are intact. Neutering may make a difference?


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I don't think you can guarantee 'temperment' and 'personality' based on sex, just by readin g the forum, some males are a bit more independent/aloof than others, I have a female and I haven't seen her manhood...but she does indeed act like she has balls sometimes! lol, she doesn't put up w/ crap from other dogs if they pick on her.

She's very loving and affectionate and loves to be laying on me, partially on me, or right up against me, she dotes on me and follows me around and I can't imagine a dog being more loving. I don't own a boy, but I have a few friends here with males, so I've been around them plenty. I haven't seen any 'manhood' come out, luckily. And *some* don't seem as loyal to their owners as Gucci is to me, but again, that isn't a generalization. I often see how these big-blanket remarks aren't quite true for everyone. Just like "All boys are better at math and science than girls", there are always the exceptions to the "generalization"! 

But, I do think traits stem more from personality than sex, there are quite a few loving, affectionate girls here.

Tear staining? Well, some dogs have it..others don't. I found that it pretty much stopped after teething.

Lots of good advice so far on looking for a breeder! You'll love Havs!

Kara and Gucci


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## amy-ciara (Jan 5, 2008)

We have 3 havanese girls and 1 castrated male malteser. I prefer the female dogs.There is no reason, just a feeling)

The adults have no tearstone, the little one has it in the moment, but I think the reason is teething.It is going to be better.
The colour is a surprise. Amy is black and white, she did not change at all. Ciara was born brown, now she is creme- sable. In the last month she is getting a golden touch. 
Audrey Rose was born much darker than she is now, but she still has some black strands.

The others recommended to take a puppy which parents are health tested. That is very very very important and necessary !!!!! Good breeders do that anyway.
Good luck , hope you will find your dream puppy soon.

The pictuctures show the colour change of Audrey Rose.

And of course : Welcome to the forum !


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I would go MALE all the way!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I agree that you probably cannot tell personality with male vs female. I have a very affectionate female and also a very affectionate male. 

Our tear staining was helped by introducing yogurt each day into their diets.

If I were to get a 4th - I would get a male! You do get used to the "manhood" issue - it quickly becomes a non issue.


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

The jury is still out here. We love our little Izzy, our 13 month old female. She isn't a lover, though she's getting more so as she gets older. Well, with me anyway. Doc, our 13 week old male, is more apt to lie around with me and will sleep on my DH's lap. Izzy would never do that with him. As far as training, so far, Izzy was a bit easier, but Doc is doing pretty well with it. He at least knows to go to the pad if I don't get him outside first. Health testing and temperament are the most important, and of course having a great breeder who is intersted in what is happening with his/her puppies is a real plus.


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## ballteammom (Jan 12, 2008)

Thank you to each and every one who replied to me. I started writing names but the list kept growing. lol I've definately found the right place to be.

What I'm hearing....find the right breeder. Found a great one and I will go sit on her floor Saturday and play with puppies. She is in constant e-mail with me and very caring.

Health....she says hers are tested and healthy and come with a health gurentee. I am going to look up their names and hit the site that gives information about them. Thanks for that info.

Male v/s female....sounds like manhood isn't the issue I thought it would be. I will fix my puppy so maybe that will prevent manhood issues.

Cindy.....you said 1 male greeted your friend in a manly way....does he present his manhood any other time. Like when you play or cuddle? 

tear staining....not the issue I was afraid it would be.

color...looked at rainbow site. and a black puppy can turn solid cream. sigh. my dad is dark gray/black so i was hoping his black puppy would stay black. the mom is a light mix.

Ya'll have been great so far. I know I'll have more to ask.

Anyone else that wants to talk to me about manhood I'd greatly appreciate. I know health is the most important thing, but with 4 boys and a husband I have just about all the manhood I can stand. lol


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

> Anyone else that wants to talk to me about manhood I'd greatly appreciate. I know health is the most important thing, but with 4 boys and a husband I have just about all the manhood I can stand. lol


LOL! ound:

Yes, "most" of the time my house is over-ruled by testosterone! I evened out the playing field when I got a female dog, Too funny!

My husband was totally against a male because he didnt' want to deal with marking and humping, but alot of people on here managed to stop that behavior in their havs, of course...Knowing my luck, If I'd gotten a boy, he probably would've been a humper/marker...Murphy's Law and all that.  He'd have been the 'exception' to the rule, no doubt.

But If you can go 'meet' the puppies and see their personalities and temperments, that would be great. You may deal with some tearing during teething, maybe not. I have a white dog and she has no stains, they are pretty easy to stop and take care of.

Kara


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

Oh, you have four boys, too???? What are their ages? My guys are 11, 9, 6 and 4.
I say go for a girl pup  We had a male golden, then got Daisy. Our Bichon mix. Finally, I had a little girl  
But, we call her our tomboy, lol. She loves to get dirty, she's totally obsessed with fetching a ball. And when I bust out the bows and little pink sweaters, she looks..well, like a dragqueen ound:
I want another girl pup, one that I can priss all up, hehehe. I've put the occasional sweater/sweatshirt on Cooper, and I think he looks silly. Daisy hates clothes. So, I need another girl to play dress up 

Oh, and Daisy isn't a Hav, but can go through spurts of having awful tear staining. I'm hoping to stay away from a a light color if I can. Just for that reason.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Oh and as for the tear staining: some have it, some don't, some have it temporarily. BUt if you really want to avoid any 'risks' try to go with a dark face/eye area. But even that puppy can have eye staining that makes the black look reddish/brownish...


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I think you need to get what you are comfortable with--as far as male/female. I have a 21 month old male neutered and he doesn't hump or show his penis in anyway. In fact no male dog I've ever owned has did that...all but 1 was neutered. 

By the way---females hump--so don't get this idea that girls do not do that.From this forum,it sounds like more females do that then males--but it isn't sexual anyway.It is dominance.Females are dominate in this breed from what I've read.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Once I found a good breeder I was sure I wanted a girl. I went and played with the puppies and one little boy just kept coming over to me. I feel Oliver choose me. I am so glad he did!
I now have great two boys:whoo:


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Welcome to the Forum.

We have two females and one is an absolute lover and one is more independent. Both are sweet, funny and loving and I wouldn't trade them for anything. They have had tear staining but I deal with that. There are products that help eliminate it and keeping the area dry and clean helps. 
McKenna is a definite alpha dog and will hump her sister. She does stop when I tell her no, however. 
Have fun playing with the puppies. Perhaps one will pick you. Havanese are wonderful dogs.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I have a male and a female. I don't find many differences, even though their personalities are their own. They are both affectionate, jumping in my lap and giving Hav kisses.

Tear staining - my don't have it, but I know some dogs do. I think it's the luck of the draw (or just good NY water).

Maleness - Kodi has never done anything in the way of being rude. He does hump Shelby all the time, but she does it to him, also. The still can't decide who is top dog in their pack.

Color is a crapshoot with Havs. But that is half the fun. Kodi was a gold/sable and white. He is now white/cream with some darker cream where he used to be gold. Shelby is b/w and has silvered a bit. 

Good luck with finding your new puppy. They are a treat no matter what you get.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Julie had a really good point, my alpha female maltese has humped a lot more dogs than most males! Most were at least tripple her size too! She also does quite a bit of marking (only outside) but attitude is everything!

Amanda


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Amanda, the marking thing is so true. When I had my other dogs, my female marked way more than my male. Shelby has started marking recently. I thinked she learned from Kodi, who has to mark every tree, pole and fire hydrant.


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## classeylassie (Jan 11, 2008)

When we got Molly I asked the breeder male or female.She laughed and said females love you,males are IN love with you.Boy what a job that would be my molly is non stop kisses can you imagine a male.lol...Molly only humps a duck slipper and only on our bed.lol..She never humps anything else nor will she do it in front of anyone else except us.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Yes, two of my girls mark too. Granted, they don't mark indoors, except Tinky - she thinks she needs to mark over the puppies' pee when she visits the puppy area. That drives me crazy, but at least she's going on the pads.


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## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

*Ballteammom*

In your original Post, you asked one question that hasn't been answered!

"Any hidden secrets about the Havanese?"

The answer is MOST DEFINITELY, YES! :whoo:

The biggest surprise is that until you bring one home, I don't think ANYONE could ever imagine how fast you can fall in love with these little fuzz-balls and how fun they are!

Have FUN letting your puppy pick YOU!

Send pictures!

Maureen and Molly


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Ya know...

I can't even get my girl to PEE in a public place?!? She won't! Its crazy..she will hold it til she gets home rather than pee where the commoners do.

And humping? My god..that must be beneath her too. LOL

I had almost convinced my husband that Male havs didn't mark, and then he happened to ask a few people at a playdate, and of course..they were having problems w/ their boys *sigh* (neutered to boot!) 

Kara


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

I have three girls...a nine month old havanese,a nine year old cocker spaniel,and a twelve year old yellow lab.....love them all to pieces!!!! I was afraid of the whole marking thing but I am now looking at getting a second havanese and I am going with a boy this time....I want to see how it is having a boy..plus I feel that it is all how you raise them!!!


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## Susanne (Jan 5, 2008)

We have both: a male and a female HAV.They are both marking outside. They are both the loveliest little dogs you can get. Their characters are so different like the sun and the moon. 

Our Bonny (female) ist a 3 year old HAV-girl and Clyde (male) ist a 9,5 month old HAV-boy. We have no problems with his manhood until now. When we will get problems, Clyde will have a visit at the VET....

I'm sure that your HAV will find you ;-)


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## Gableshavs (Jun 19, 2007)

I have three girls, one is a foster, the other two are here to stay, I also have a lovely male poodle. All three are so sweet and affectionate. I definitely prefer my girls, other breeder/friends adore their boys and say they are much more cuddly (no one is cuddlier than my Blossom.) I think the temperament of the puppy is what should guide your choice because they are just like us, they have different personalities, even moods. 

About humping, Mari is in heat now and the other girls are spayed, but it makes no difference they are trying to breed with each other, Lesbian dog love abounds at my house, it's really funny. Last night it got so bad I had to put everyone in their crate, no kidding they would not leave each other alone. My neutered male poodle ignores them and just sleeps.

In my experience both sexes are equally easy to train, depending on the amount of time you spend working with them. They need consistency, love, understanding, dedicated owners and patience, a combination for a successful human/dog relationship.
Paula


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Our 3 year old male Hav Chico is so affectionate and definitely "in love" with me and my dh too. He was neutered at 3 months and doesn't lift his leg to pee. He just lifts one little paw off the ground. It is so funny. 
He almost never humps and if he does, it is for dominance.

He is the the herder of the family. He has to check everyone out and make sure things are fine before he settles down. I hadn't wanted a male, but his breeder thought his termperament perfect for us. She was right.

Our 2nd Havanese girl, Cali is now 9 months old. She was more independent as a little puppy and not as affectionate as Chico. As she has gotten older, she is much more cuddly and loving. She is sweet and playful and an easy dog. Both have been wonderful.

I think perhaps it has more to do with temperament than gender.

You have so much fun in store for you with a Havanese!


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Definitely, it's temperament not gender!

We heard the same thing..."females love you, males are in love with you". Generalizations like that set people up for disappointment. Frankly, I think it's a load of bunk. You will see from reading threads on the forum that some have aloof, independent males and some have affectionate females, and vice versa. And yes, some males do mark inside and like to hump. Not all,but some. There are threads on this issue too.

At first my DH was dead set against a male b/c of the marking and humping worries. By the time we got to our breeder we were totally open to either gender. We visited our breeder twice to pick a puppy and it was clear that our pup chose us.

Our female is the most affectionate loving dog I've ever had, and I've had both male and female dogs. If she loved us (esp me) any more, we'd be fused as one, lol! She is a true velcro dog, following me everywhere, and when not playing loves to be either in my lap or snuggled right next to me. She loves to be hugged and loved on. She gives frequent face washes, sometimes out of the blue for no obvious reason. Believe me, she is IN love with me!

We couldn't be happier with her. My advice is forget the stereotypes and be open to either gender and get the puppy that chooses you.

Good luck and congratulations!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

There is more of an individual difference between any two Havanese than is made by gender in general. Work with a breeder that can find the right fit for your family. You always hear how important health testing is, and I would say that it's mandatory, but health testing doesn't guarantee the pups health. It merely helps with the odds. Study different breeders guarantees and question about the health history of generations behind their breeding dogs. Do they just say they will take the puppy back or will they pay for any congenital health problem? Is the puppy guaranteed against CD? Health testing is mandatory as far as I'm concerned but how is the breeder willing to back it up? You're buying the breeder's efforts and help in the future, not just a puppy.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

When I was searching for my hav, I was only getting a female. Males weren't even under consideration. My last three out of four dogs were female and I've just loved them to death. Then came the day when I saw Milo's picture on a web site and fell hopelessy in love. I didn't question it. I had no second thoughts, I just knew he was the one . . . and I'd been searching for over six months. Never regretted my decision, even when he ate the cord to my vacuum cleaner. ound:


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Gosh Gucci sounds like my Son - he would never go in a public place . if he got the urge I had to get in the car and drive him home to take care of business as Donna calls it .
AS to boys over girls I think you go with your gut .. I have always had male dogs and I seem to be attracted to males .
Donna has Tulip a little girl - she did not even consider a male . A female was all the breeder had available at the time and she took her . They are a perfect match . Donna is a girlie girl and so is Tulip .. She is adorable and my boys love her even though she is the older woman in their lives ..


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

I have a year old neutered male and no problems with "manhood". Actually he did this a few times before he was neutered and we corrected it by firmly saying no.

I say the most important thing is to talk to the breeder. Don't get to fixed on male or female but what the perfect dog is for your family. There was a girl tri that I was in love with from the litter. But she had attitude and the breeder decided she should go to someone who had lots of expereince with puppies and possibly show.

She picked Houston because he is sort of independent at times which works out well because we work and he is home a few hours by himself. 

A good breeder will help with perfect match.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

I have 5 girls and one boy.
3 of my girls mark (outside) over each others pee. :suspicious: All of them love to hump each other. :frusty: They range from pretty independent to obsessivley loving....
My boy has never lifted his leg in the house (or outside that I have ever seen!) He has never marked. He is 16 months old. He is by far my most active, yet still very loving. His favorite place to hang out is in our laps...and he is obsessed with ears! He likes to sniff and lick them...ewwwww!!
I am sure you will pick the perfect puppy for you~~!!
And yes, the color changes can be pretty dramatic! I know there is a thread here all about that with pictures, you can do a search for it~
Best of luck!:biggrin1:


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## ballteammom (Jan 12, 2008)

You are all wonderful. I have written down your names and little notes as to what you have said but there are too many of you to tell each of you how much I enjoy you and appreciate you. What a good attitude you all have joking about the no-nos your little ones get into. And each and every post had the most beautiful dog I had ever seen beside it. Each prettier than the next. I am overly excited to hold a little angel in my arms and tell you all about him/her. And post the most beautiful picture of them all. lol

I hear a lot about 'marking' is that just peeing someplace? If so, I can deal with that. It won't be an issue.

Humping can't believe the girls do it. lol As long as the boys keep their 'red thingy' covered up they can hump away on a stuffed animal....or duck slipper. TOO FUNNY CLASSEYLASSIE.

Lesbian humping This is one of the funniest things....and to see the boy sleeping through it all. Didn't he know that men were supposed to love that sort of thing? lol

*Manhood...to me MANHOOD involves the unveiling of the dreaded 'red thingy'*. This is where I start to freak out. I am hearing of no 'manhood' sightings in this breed and that makes me very happy. _Does that mean I can rub his little tummy and tickle him without seeing red? _

A runby of comments I enjoyed: Gucci won't pee with the commoners and humping is beneath her; Daisy is a drag queen. Wants a prissy girl....(I'll take a Mama's Boy too. My boys are 16, 13, 11, 10); Wanted a girl, a boy chose her; look for temperment not gender; paying for breeders efforts and help in the future, not just for the puppy; wanted a girl, fell for a boy; breeder will know match; 
And the number one thing I learned from my new friends......IF HE SHOWS IT'S MANHOOD JUST TELL HIM *NO*! (will it work on husbands! lol)


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## elregalohavanese (Jun 20, 2007)

*male or female*

I don't think you can really decide on a pup based on gender. Our eldest male is the most affectionate dog we have ever had. One of our girls is very affectionate and the other girl would prefer to sit on the bed and eat bon bons...She does not want to be bothered unless you are going to rub her tummy or give her treats. Thinks she is the queen. We also just placed a litter of pups and one family came dead set on getting a girl. However, one of the male pups ran up to their son(who is afraid of dogs) and plopped himself right in the little boy's lap and stayed. Needless to say, they went home with a boy. You may fall in love with a puppy that is a male or a female and not necessarily the gender you set out to get. Enjoy...picking out a pup is so much fun. In fact, we have 6 havs now...be careful...you can't get just one!LOL


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Boys rock! We have always had females and hubby was worried about a male humping his leg or marking in the house. We got a male anyways and we love this guy so much! He doesn't mark in the house and he doesn't show his manhood! If you're rubbing your dogs tummy and this happens, don't rub him like that! :redface: ound: We were told in puppy class to stop him when he tried to hump another dog in play so he would learn that we don't think that's appropriate play behavior. It's always up to you to decide what's ok in your home and if you don't want leg humping and your dog tries it you train him not too just like you train him not to chew the piano legs.

Not all dogs tear stain. It can be caused by clogged tear ducts (see the vet) excessive tearing due to allergies or teething or even a low grade bacterial infection. First find out what's causing the problem and tend to it. Then there are products to aid in getting rid of the stains. Or you could look for a dog with dark coloring. A true black dog seems to be more likely to hold the black color than others.

The absolutely most important decision you can make is in the breeder and really researching to be sure the dogs lines have passed their health testing. 
This can be a bit confusing. Some breeders will tell you yes the dogs are tested, yes the pups are guarenteed. You need to find out exactly what that means. Some breeders only mean that their vet saw the pups and they are healthy. What you want to ascertain is that the parents of the pups have specific testing done at the appropriate ages and that you can see the results. The results should be either certificates that your breeder can show you of the test results or they will be posted on the OFA website. Here: http://www.offa.org/
Also breeders can offer many different health guarentees. Some just offer if your dog has a problem they will trade puppies with you. Hmmmmm.... for me personally that would be difficult to do! Some will say they are guarenteed for a year against genetic defects. I don't really think many genetic problems show up in the first year and you will be so busy that first year getting vaccines and potty training the year will be up before you turn around. 
My best advice is to take your time...shop around... ask alot of questons jsut like you are now! :biggrin1:

Oh, and if I haven't been long-winded enough... you asked about any other little things? Well they do a real cool thing called "run-like-hell" where they whip though your house like the devil was on their tails! They seem to have apaper shredding gene and you will want to keep an eye on the TP, you Kleenex and hang on to your napkin! And one last little surprise is... little doggies with long hair will occaisionally need a little something we all call a "butt bath" because things didn't quite work out a cleanly as we had hoped. Keep him brushed and feed him healthy and hopefully this won't happen hardly ever! You could also ask your groomer for a sanitary trim if you so desire.

So! I hope that helped! HAV fun! They are wonderful dogs and I know we all love them like crazy! eace:


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

ballteammom said:


> *Manhood...to me MANHOOD involves the unveiling of the dreaded 'red thingy'*. This is where I start to freak out. I am hearing of no 'manhood' sightings in this breed and that makes me very happy. _Does that mean I can rub his little tummy and tickle him without seeing red? _
> 
> IF HE SHOWS IT'S MANHOOD JUST TELL HIM *NO*! (will it work on husbands! lol)




ound: ound: ound: LMAO. OK there may have been a communication meltdown. Houston is not that smart to put the red thing back in. LOL. I thought you meant humping. :doh::redface: Plus don't forget they are small dogs. It isn't like a great dane. LOL

Red thing used to come out once in awhile when excited. No problems since neutered. LOL

I don't think it works on husbands. LOL If it did well.................. we better not even go there. LOL


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

This thread is a hoot, thanks for the smiles tonight everyone it was definetley needed.

I have 2 boys and I think I have only seen their crayon 3 times total between the both. Riley is 2 and Monte 1, they both try and hump each other Ry more than Monte because he is top dog but I would say it is more like just a mount then I tell him no and he stops. 
Neither one of my boys have marked in my house, Monte did start to mark over Riley's pee outside right before he got fixed but that stopped.

I love my boys and think they are the best, I have never owned a female so could not say if male or female is better. I can say I have two boys that do have different temperments, Riley is wild and Monte is more laid back but both very loving.


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## ballteammom (Jan 12, 2008)

Ya'll are keeping me busy. I am a member of a weight loss forum also. Between the 2 forums I just sit here for hours....so much for the exercise involved in weight loss. My fingers are getting thinner though. lol

So now we have bon bon eating girls and toilet paper shredding boys. 

elregalohavanese....6 dogs. wow!

Christy....If you rub him and he shows then don't rub him like that again. Well, that was great advice. Who knew! lol I'll check into the OFFA thing. so much to think of. And I'll be looking for the Run-Like-Hell syndrome. Now a Butt Bath sounds pretty darn yucky. I hope it involves a garden hose because I don't think I want that in my sink. lol

Rita....I did think Houston was really well trained. lol I would have been over here demanding NO if my boy wasn't a gentleman and wondering why your boy would listen and mine wouldn't. That's funny.

Leeann....2 boys....3 sightings.....i like those numbers. lol

Goodnight. Hug the babies for me.


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Oh, the RLH and the paper shredding isn't gender specific...they all do it!


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## ballteammom (Jan 12, 2008)

*look at my puppy's web site*

New Friends:

*Help me know if I have a good breeder, parents, and puppies picked out. *

The web site to go to is lap-it-up-pups.com 
The mom is Kissy. She is under the 'girls' section. She is pictured with the puppies from this litter.
The dad is Grayson. He is under the 'boys' section.
The puppies are in the 'puppy' section.
I have been e-mailing Betty.​Please help me find out if these will be healthy little ones to buy. And if you can by looking at the parents tell me what these babies might look like.

I e-mailed Betty tonight telling her my new forum friends asked me about their guarentee against CD and if their scores could be found on OFFA.ORG? So at least I sound like I know what I'm doing. If you have any questions that should be asked let me know.

*Which baby catches your eye and why?*


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Have you put down a deposit on a puppy yet? I see some disturbing things on this site.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I can't tell you about the breeder, but the daddy is beautiful and poor mommy looks exhausted. I must say, for me, I'm attracted to the light one (sable?) even though I have a beautiful Irish pied little boy myself.


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## ballteammom (Jan 12, 2008)

I have not put down a deposit for the puppy.

The breeder has gone down to $800 for the male when I told her $1300 was too high for me but if she would lower the price I would promise to love it forever. She said that $1000 was her regular male price.

Dreading the answer, what have you found disturbing with this site? gulp


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

I have a 2 year old boy. He is a show dogs so not neutered, I have never noticed him showing his "manhood". He is very loving but I wouldn't call him cuddly. He wants to be near me but not on me. 

I just got a little girl last week, she is also very loving and wants to be on top on me all the time. She is just 13 weeks old so she may change. 

Both of mine are "Red Sables" I love the way their color changes. You never know for sure what they will look like.

I looked at the web site you mentioned, I saw somethings that I would not be comfortable with. 

Good luck with your search.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Well the red flags I saw right away...The health guarantee is up until the puppy is only 6 months old, i don't see anything on health testing, also the big red flag on the opening page is she sells cross breeds. Also some of the phony registries advertised on the bottom of her site. Just some red flags- did she give you the chic numbers to research yourself?


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi there,

Sounds a bit like a BYB or whatever you want to call it. She breeds cross-breeds (they used to call them 'mutts' in the old days..), thats a big red flag.
6 Month guarantee from the date of birth? Most respectable breeders do 2 or more years from when you take ownership. 
She also wants 50% down payment which is non-refundable! lol.. big red flag..
And she is willing to barter for the price of the dog because you will love him forever? BIG red flag..

Just my 2 cents.. I'm sure u have received many pm's by now with the same advice.. 

Goodluck.. Hope you find your baby soon!

Ryan


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

ok more red flags for me too. She has many dogs and quite a few different breeds. APRI is not generally considered a serious registry and why is she advertising so many different registries? The price for me is a red flag right off too. A good breeder doesn't sell their dogs so cheaply. It costs alot to do the proper health testing and show their dogs to a champioship. I don't see Champion titles on her dogs, so I have to wonder if she's showing her dogs at all. Her health guarentee is pretty thin. Technically your pup could still be considered good enough for pet quality and have bad hips and elbows that could cause alot of pain as he ages and require expensive surgery. 
I would run the other direction if it were me. Sorry.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I seriously doubt there is much health testing on these dogs. This particular portion of the contract is bothersome:

*Buyer understands 
that the following slight genetic defects are not considered serious or life threatening and 
therefore are not covered: umbilical hernia, undescended testicle, under bite or overbite. 
Buyer understands that replacement option is only valid when health problems are attributed 
to a hereditary problem and not due to accident or contagious and/or other illness. Buyer 
understands that any and all guarantees expire six months from the date of birth.

We will not refund money to an individual that decides after purchasing the puppy and having 
it in their home they do not have time to take care of one. These are new family members and 
cannot be returned because you changed your mind.*

You seem really locked in! And despite her saying those things aren't a 'problem', they are. Severe bites deformities can require surgery, etc. Not to mention, make it really hard for them to eat.

That contract is really written to protect HER from losing money, and definately not the buyer! That'd scare me a bit.

Kara


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I would definately ask very specific questions about EACH puppy and find out which one has an underbite/overbite (and to what severity) and which ones have umbilical hernias (again, that needs surgery..too!) and ask if their testical is undescended on the boys.

That just makes it sound like her dam and sire carry these problems and are passing them to the offspring.



> The breeder has gone down to $800 for the male when I told her $1300 was too high for me but if she would lower the price I would promise to love it forever. She said that $1000 was her regular male price.
> 
> Dreading the answer, what have you found disturbing with this site? gulp


Honestly, $800 for a Havanese is a real bargain. Most of them sell between 1500-2500, I paid about mid range of that. However, if your dog has a problem, like above..that requires surgery OR ANY other health problem that needs surgery or vet visits, you will quickly see the price of your Hav go way over $2500, so..paying more upfront for a health tested dog hopefully will save you money in the long run. Granted, there are NO guarantees that a dog who has been through all the health testing, won't have puppies with problems, I've seen it happen more than once, but it will lessen the chances and put the odds in your favor. I've been very lucky with Gucci, even though I didn't know about the offa.org site, and actually..Gucci's parents aren't on it, but her Grandparents are and they had alot of 'Good' and 'Excellent' ratings, so that does ease my mind now.

Kara


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## Gableshavs (Jun 19, 2007)

I went to this lady's website and I agree, there's some red flags. I went to the OFA site and the parents are not even listed for CERF testing. Really, this breeder hasn't even tested for cataracts which all the breeders test. We have problems with health in this breed from cataracts, heart murmurs, thyroid, CD, liver shunt and more. Health testing of the parents and selective breeding is extremely important. You can't just put two cute havanese together and have puppies than sell them and not expect problems to surface in a few years. This is why we try to educate the public.

Also, if a breeder wants to give you another puppy from the same breeding, what good is it? They still carry the same genetic problems (just my opinion).

It appears this backyard breeder does not publish health testing or does not test at all for congenital problems. I hope you reconsider your choice of breeder and go to the AKC site www.akc.org then use their breeder referral service to find someone highly recommended and ethical. The best of luck to you.
Paula


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

ballteammom said:


> I have not put down a deposit for the puppy.
> 
> The breeder has gone down to $800 for the male when I told her $1300 was too high for me but if she would lower the price I would promise to love it forever. She said that $1000 was her regular male price.


That is strange to me. I never heard of a good breeder coming down in price. Usually they tell you to hit the road because they are loosing money with health testing etc.

Can you post where you live? Then maybe someone can PM you a breeder in your area that they know.


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> *Buyer understands .....................under bite or overbite.
> Good breeders stop breeding dogs when they notice a problem appears in the litter. Even a problem as small as underbite or overbite.
> 
> We will not refund money to an individual that decides after purchasing the puppy and having
> ...


I think you really need to post where you live. You might live close to some of the great breeders that we have on this forum.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Rita,

I have that 'buy back' in my contract too!

In fact, it is in my contract that the breeder will buy back Gucci under ANY circumstance, and incur any expenses and there is also something in there about not turning her over to rescue, I think? The breeder wants her back if I don't. 

Of course, this girl ain't going anywhere! lol She's found her 'forever' home!

Kara


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## ballteammom (Jan 12, 2008)

*Red Flags*

OK....I've read your red flags (Ryan I have received no PMs)

I haven't looked at the site a lot because I have talked to Betty so much and askeed so many questions. There are 3 breeders on this site. Betty only does Havanese. The other dogs belong to the other breeders and the mixes are theirs. The contract you read was Julie's. Betty has her own health contract....2 years covered for life threatening problems, hips, and eyes. If there is a problem in 2 years she'll replace the puppy or refund the money. If I want to keep the puppy she'll provide alternate arrangements because she knows it's hard to give back something you've slept with for 2 years.

She has asked for no money from me. No deposit or down payment. What you read must have been the other breeder's rules. Betty doesn't even know much about the site. I found her puppies through a 'buy a puppy' site. She let 'julie' set up the site. Betty sits home with her dogs and her 4 children.

I know I may not be dealing with championship bloodline. (I just want a pure pet puppy. The only papers I require are the potty training ones.) And maybe not a top notch professional breeder but I have a good feeling about her. She seems to be a momma that loves her kids and loves this breed of Dog. She got to know me, talked it over with her husband, and gave me a price I could handle. Maybe in her neck of the woods there is not a big demand for Havanese and if she didn't find a loving home she'd be left with 6 new family members.

My next step is to go to her house and get a feeling of everything there. See if it's clean, happy, and healthy.

*I feel like I've covered a lot of your red flags which makes me happy. Is there anything that still makes you really uncomfortable. As I said, I'm new to this and I appreciate all of the input I'm getting.*

Bobbi


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## ballteammom (Jan 12, 2008)

*Gucci among the commoners*



Thumperlove said:


> Rita,
> 
> I have that 'buy back' in my contract too!
> 
> ...


I could see Gucci among the commoners in a rescue. Where would she potty? lol


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

You mentioned Betty only does the Havs. But, if you look under the info about each breeder, she says she breeds peke/bichon mixes, too  
The high priced designer breeds kill me. I think they're adorable. Heck, I have one. But, to pay big bucks for one..:nono: That would instantly turn me away. I've seen a lot of purebred breeders, turn to the designer dogs to make a buck.

That aside, I like the little girl on her site .


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## Gableshavs (Jun 19, 2007)

The reputable breeders who health test sell puppies as pets. I took a course by Pat Hastings a short time ago. She told us most litters produce one show quality puppy, two if you're really lucky and these puppies will be seen and shown and hopefully make the breed better when they reproduce. The rest go to pet homes, these litters are from health-tested first and usually champion parents. You know the breeder will guarantee the puppy for life with a reputable breeder. They'd rather have a puppy back if you change your mind. These puppies are like their kids and they want to know they are ok. 

You know parents are health tested for serious genetically transferrable diseases. 

I have been there, done that by buying a puppy from a very nice breeder before I knew better. Her name was Raisen, my shih-tzu. At the age of 5 they discovered she had a heart murmur and eventually her heart murmur became serious and she had to take medication for the rest of her life. Her eye problems surfaced at 11 years of age, she was blind when she died at 16. When we buy a puppy it's a life time commitment, these puppies live to be 15 years old or older if properly cared for. You want your initial investment to be the best puppy you can get to prevent future extremely high vet bills and heartache. Many of these backyard breeders are very nice people but this is a new breed and you want the best puppy you can get and avoid future heartache.
Paula


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

ballteammom said:


> I could see Gucci among the commoners in a rescue. Where would she potty? lol


LOL! It is such an ODD quirk of hers. I first noticed it several months ago at Puppy Preschool at Petsmart. After class, we would take her to the grass and she would NOT go, even though I knew she had to! Then she would whimper the whole way home and when we pulled up, got out of the car..she would RUN to the back gate and the second I opened it she ran in and peed! LOL

We take her to the office a few times a week, and there is a vet in our complex, so most of the grass around us is used by the vet and she won't pee there either! So we use the pads. lol...

She did go in a few 'strange' places when we took her to Michigan, but she had no choice, but here in town? She'll hold it for an extra few hours not to pee in a public place. its crazy! She's a little Diva.

She won't hump either, but I've seen her bully a 80 lb dog into submission. She will show her teeth..or "show her toothpicks" my husband and I say! It cracks us up. Also, she won't let other dogs sniff her butt, I've noticed..but she'll sniff theirs!

I'm glad to hear that contract is not the one you are signing...it is disturbing. I'd still ask her if the puppies have any hernias or bite problems.

Also, you could ask for soaped up pictures of the parents legs to see if they are straight. She should be able to provide that to you, its easy enough for her to do.

Kara


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Bobbi, sorry I didn't answer last night about the red flags. I wanted to hear first if you had put down a 50% deposit and then I went to bed before seeing your response.

Many people have already answered thoroughly regarding the red flags. Nice woman or not, I seriously doubt she does health testing, not if she's selling her puppies for that price. So even if all the things already mentioned don't bother you, or you believe her explanations (I myself would be more skeptical), run the other way as fast as you can. Yes, she's nice, and the puppies are cute, but you will likely have heartache and enormous vet bills later. Even if you get lucky and your pet is OK, you'd be supporting this type of breeding program.

I too have a pet quality pet but the breeder thoroughly health tests with the results listed on the offa.org site, and I have a 2 yr guarantee and the breeder will take the puppy back anytime for any reason if I am unable to care for her. 

Most reputable breeders breed championship lines but sell pet quality puppies. They do that for the betterment of the breed, a huge concern among good breeders. Just think about pure bred puppies like cocker spaniels and what happened to them when back yard "family" breeders and puppy mills bred indiscriminately w/o health testing.

I would really trust the people on this forum. They have a lot of knowledge and experience with this breed. You would do well to heed their warnings.

If the price is an issue you can always look into getting a rescue puppy.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Bobbi,
as others mentioned, just because Betty is 'nice' doesn't mean she knows what she's doing. If you want to sacrifice health testing then I'd say go with a rescue pup that will have the same chances/risks health wise as these puppies, will cost you less AND you truly save a sweet soul from rescue. I'd honestly either go with a great reputable Breeder with obvious thorough health testing OR get a rescue. To me it doesn't make any sense to go with a 'nice' wannabe great breeder and pay that much money not knowing what you get, as I said: for less money you could get a rescue with the same unknown risk factors.


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

Do good breeders REALLY advertise? I've been looking through puppyfind.com, just cause I can't help but ooh and ahh over the cute pups. And I'm amazed at how many low ball prices I see. And how totally shady these people seem.
I've been browsing for wks, and have yet to see a single breeder that I would seriously consider going to.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Bobbi,
you also might want to read through this currently ongoing thread:

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=3000


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## Gableshavs (Jun 19, 2007)

There are good breeders who advertise, but they also health test and post the results. Sorry, I know I sound like a broken record, but I feel it's so important an issue. Consumers need to ask the right questions and lots of them then make a thoroughly informed decision. So many people want a puppy right away, that's how pet stores stay in business.
Paula


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Bobbi,
At the risk of this not going over well--I'm going to post it anyway,because it is the truth and I feel could help you.There are some forum members here that have bought dogs without doing the proper health testing.Most all of them never knew about the testing prior to purchasing their dogs.When you know better,you do better.We are trying to help you make the best possible decision and guide you to get the healthiest puppy you can. That being said--you need to do what you feel right about. Some people have posted you can not buy a dog for 800.00 and have it be healthy etc. I'm not saying they are wrong--but I'm in the midwest. The prices here are alot different then other portions of the US. You do not need to "sell the farm" to get a good quality havanese. A big price does not guarantee a heathy dog...it just gives you less at the grocery store! I'm not saying a bargain hav isn't something to be leary of---because you do have to do your homework...but price isn't everything either.
I do think you need to actually go to this website and look yourself. Look at the dogs closely. I'm just going to state my impression/opinion of it ok?You can take it with a grain of salt if you want....I don't believe if I was a breeder of havanese--purebred AKC havanese,I would share a website or link a website to those breeding mixed breed mutts,or designer dogs as they call them nowadays.I can say I have never seen a havanese breeder's website with other mixed breeds dogs. I also think the photos are of the dogs are awful. I would not post a picture of my dogs looking like that here-let alone on my own website wanting to sell them--and I have a plain easy share camera.Those are some of the nastiest looking bichons I have ever seen.Bad hair cuts,looking tear stained etc.I know you are after a havanese,not a bichon--but would you let someone post those nasty dogs photos with your dogs? I would not. Now,I hope I haven't hurt anyone's feelings,but if I were you--I'd look elsewhere.The same or a little more could get you a better chance at a healthier hav. I post this hoping it'll be worth it for you in the long run. I do want you to get the healthiest hav you can.:hug:


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Julie, I'm glad you had the courage to mention the photos of the dogs on that website; I thought the very same thing but was afraid to mention it.

BTW, I'm in the Midwest and the Havs from the 'testing' breeders are in the $1800 - $2000 range.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I agree with Julie completely and that is what quite a few of our members are sharing with you simply because, you want to be informed as to what to look for. You may not be interested in "champion bloodlines", but that is not what conformation shows are all about.

The very fact that there is no return policy if you for whatever reason can no longer care for it, does NOT sit well. Sometimes, we may develop allergies, have to move somewhere where dogs are not allowed, a death - something legitimate and not laziness or later realization that a puppy is too much work. But than again, good breeders prefer you to send the puppy back for ITS well-being. They care for each and every puppy. 

And honestly, genetic defects? overbite? underbite? Does this breeder think you were born yesterday??? Showning in conformation helps to root those things out for the breeders who are conscientious about bettering the breed. A pup is born with an underbite, that is a fault, therefore you don't breed it!! The dam produces litters with deformity, take it off the breeding line. Allergies? You get the idea.

Many a time we see pups and try to look at everything with Rosy coloured glasses even though our intuition or gut instinct tells us different. If you had no doubt, you would not be asking. 

I would love for you to find the right puppy, that is matched to you and your family in terms of temperment. I know certain colours are so lovely, but the temperment is the most important thing.

These Backyard breeders will tell you all you want to hear, for you to buy their pup. Once they get paid, they take the money and run and if any health issues arrive, they will find a way to cut you off. As Julie mentioned it did happen to a few members here.

We love the havanese here and are very supportive of good breeders who only breed for the betterment of the Havanese. I am positive, that with more leg work you will find the right puppy and that it will bring you years of joy. But in the meantime, the key here is patience and asking LOTS and LOTS of questions of more than one breeder and listening to your inner voice. Its there and you have the answer. Better to spend more money with all the research behind you than to go ahead and look for the most inexpensive option, only to find that later you will be spending thousands in vet bills while seeing your lovely pup suffer from the breeders neglect. This may stir things but I had to say it. Best of luck to you :hug:


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

I just posted 'Warning Gross Question' ...regarding the red rocket...

My boy is older...9 months today...I think I waited a month too long...he started lifting his leg outside and he made his big stuffed bear wet after humping it. THAT was the day I called to schedule the neuter. I just wanted to get through the holidays. :frusty:

Now about the breeder you're considering. I don't like the health guarantee.

My pup has an overbite. I knew when I bought him he had an overbite. At the time we weren't concerned, the breeder or myself and others I talked to, he was evaluated and most thought he'd grow out of it. However, my vet was concerned. I went to a specialist for $100. He wanted me to pull his puppy canines for $800 and he would also probably have to fix his adult teeth for ANOTHER $1K. I freaked! My breeder stepped up. I decided to forgo the puppy surgery [seemed unnecessary risk] and 'wait and see' especially since I knew breeder would help me. Thankfully I just got a good bill of health reagarding the teeth from my vet [when she neutered him she took a good look around] so more than likely we won't have to do do anything.

BUT you would not have any protection AT ALL for many things that you might not discover. So the DEAL you think you got, won't be a deal at all. If I was going to buy a dog without a good guarantee or health testing, I'd RESCUE the dog rather than support the backyard breeders. Have you checked out petfinder.com. There are many here who have rescued their havs.

So if money were tight, that would be the way I'd go. In fact, my neighbors across the street fell in love with my dog and rescued their own havanese, Otis!

Good luck.

sorry that was REALLY REALLY long...

Trish


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

JanB said:


> Julie, I'm glad you had the courage to mention the photos of the dogs on that website; I thought the very same thing but was afraid to mention it.
> 
> BTW, I'm in the Midwest and the Havs from the 'testing' breeders are in the $1800 - $2000 range.


My midwest is different then yours I guess Jan. Here they are 1200.00-1400.00 for a contract spay/neuter pet havanese.Mostly that low end.


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## Ans (Jan 4, 2008)

I have a male Havanese from Martina from the Happy Puppy Tower from Germany.
Havanese are bright and lovely dogs!
They come in many colours.
I've got a tricolour.
In the Netherlands they cost between € 900 and € 1500.

Look here for the colours of a Havanese.

http://www.mts.net/~mckay55/rainbow.html

Figure 1 - Agouti Banding (dark light)
Figure 2 - Eumelanin Banding (shades of dark)
Figure 3 - Phaeomelanin banding (shades of light)


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Seeing how I have read only the recent posts I went back to reread and found the website. And OMG those poor Bichon Frises don't even look like bichon Frise's!! The dogs are dirty, with the exception of the very first picture, but its blurry so I can't really tell. Sorry, but they look shady to me too  Very sad


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Helen,
The havs are not as nice as the ones on the forum either......


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

You are right Julie, but you have to wonder where they also go their havs to start their breeding operation??? Crazy!!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

That was my thought also Helen.....:wink:


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I am wondering if they are direct imports from Cuba?? But then again the only dark would have to be the Havanna Brown, and the male does not look like one. Also, that dog is not registered either! I should say ANY for that matter!!


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

I agree, if a breeder can't bathe a dog before taking it's picture to put on their website. Do you really think they are taking the time to care for the dogs as they should.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Yup, just as I suspected... Imports... Check it out:

http://www.lap-it-up-pups.com/Pedigrees.html


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

At least the male Havs are... And as for the females, I have not heard these Kennel names! Not to mention, the paper looks made up.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Yikes, I am with you guys. They didnt bathe the pups first - yuk!! Things are very wrong there!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

And really if they cannot bathe them themselves they should have a groomer! No WAIT, now that is just too expensive! Hmmm, but you know, seeing how they pay no additional cost for CERF, BAER, CD testing etc.. then I am sure grooming could be!!! :frusty: You are not going to convince me they take them to the vet either. Because NO VET unless shady themselves will turn a blind eye to what they are doing! RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE!!!!


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Just a quick question--- Have you even asked if they do health testing? If so, what was the response? Yes or No? (i might have missed this earlier in the thread or have forgotten by now.. lol)
You might as well go pay the breeder a visit, just to see what her dog area looks like. If its not to far from you, no harm done and not much time wasted.

Ryan


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

That one pedigree paper looks 'made up', like it was created on Word or something, but I think other breeders here on the forum have imported from Hungary too, so maybe they can attest to authenticity and health of Havs from Hungary

As to the tear staining, well...looking at the pictures of her dogs, I'd say there is a pretty good chance the pups will have it since most of the adults do. But it isn't impossible to control, just extra grooming.

Kara


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Kara, the extra grooming is what it takes, but they don't even do 'basic' grooming!


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Julie said:


> My midwest is different then yours I guess Jan. Here they are 1200.00-1400.00 for a contract spay/neuter pet havanese.Mostly that low end.


Well, the Midwest is pretty big  I looked in the IN, OH, and IL areas and that's what I found but I certainly can't say I did a thorough exhaustive search, looking at every breeder. I just looked at the ones recommended to me. I know areas of the country can vary.


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

Unfortunately, there used to be some forum members from last year who no longer post with us. A few of them had purchased puppies with health problems. It would be nice if they were still online to give advice...... but who knows what happened.

Take your time and search.
There was a thread started on what to look for. I will try to find it and post.

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=211&highlight=%22advice+puppy+buyers%22


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