# Does anyone know NY Breeder Jeff



## Looking4AHav

Hi. I'm new to this forum and was wondering if there are any Breeders out there who can help me? Does anyone know anything about this breeder? http://www.jeffshavanese.com/ I've been looking at the havanese for quite a few months and was thinking of purchasing a puppy from him. But I was wondering if his puppies are inbred because it appears that his dogs have puppies every few months. Their not AKC either. Is it very important for a companion dog to AKC?


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## juliav

Hi and welcome to the forum. :wave:

I don't know anything about breeders in NY, but we have a lot of people on this forum who can help you find a good breeder.

Good luck,


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## pjewel

Is this guy saying the mothers are *eight* months old . . . or less??? I'd have a really strong no on this one. And what about health testing???


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## Cheryl

I see nothing about health testing on his website. And he is breeding his mothers very young. This is not a site I feel comfortable about. People on your coast can direct you in another direction.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Havanese. 

Read this sight and study up. You are in for a great adventure!!


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## Looking4AHav

Thanks for the Welcome. 
He says that they're checked by his vet. I thought I saw him selling Latte a few months ago as a puppy but I was hoping that I was wrong. Where do you see the age of the mothers on the site? If you look at the about us page of his site, he shown with about 8-10 dogs. I wonder if they're all his or from "his" Camp. http://www.jeffshavanese.com/aboutus.php?id=21


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## Julie

This is just my opinion-ok? But I would not purchase a havanese puppy from the website you posted. If you look around this forum you will find several threads on what to look for. I assume you want a good quality health tested happy havanese......this is just my suggestion to you. Lots of back yard breeders have gotten into the havanese breed to turn a profit. Their business is to strictly sell dogs and make money. Quality havanese breeders health test they pups they produce,stand behind the pup for years or even a lifetime. The contract on this website has 72 hours or something like that? :nono: I get a better guarantee on a t-shirt at Walmart then that. I'd run from this one---:bolt:


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## joemodeler

Never heard of this guy. I find it odd that he sells the dogs using a cell phone number. I also do not trust his guarantee. I do not see on his site that he tests his dogs health. On sites that he advertises he states that he does but I do not find it on is own site.

Run !!!! 

Spend the extra money. Go to a true breeder who many on this site can point you to. It is worth the money and the headache of not knowing the background of your dog.


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## Havtahava

Look for a breeder that will disclose information on both parents in regard to all their health testing. They should be able/willing to give you information on their registered names, AKC registration number or OFA number, so you can go straight to www.offa.org and look it up yourself. (Many, many of us are willing to help you do this too.)

The breeder should be willing to give you pedigree info (names of parents, grandparents, etc.)

The breeder should have a health guarantee that leaves you feeling comfortable and confident. Find out what that includes and how long it lasts. Some breeders only guarantee for a month, others for years, and still others for life.

AKC registration is the only way (in the U.S.) to guarantee the dog is a purebred. There are hundreds of other "registries", but oftentimes a breeder can pay a small fee to get papers to say their dog is "registered" with them.


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## Looking4AHav

He says that the vet checks them out but not "health tested". He was charging $1,200.00 a couple of months ago. Now he's charging $1,800.00 and he doesn't do the tests. I think you are all right, he's out for the money. 
The more I think about it he seems like a minature puppy mill. I feel badly for the puppies .


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## Havtahava

I'm amazed how many backyard breeders say they get their dogs checked by their vet. Doesn't every pet owner get them checked by a vet? Even so, when was their last check? 2 years ago?

His web site is confusing. When you click on "Meet the parents", it seems to list a whole lot of dogs and I can't tell which ones are the parents. There aren't photos or other info to coincide.


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## BeverlyA

Hi Looking4aHav! Welcome to the forum!
You've chosen the right breed, they're the best for sure!

After looking at that website though, I would have some reservations about it and their puppies. There is no mention of health testing of the parents. Lots of the mothers seem extremely young to be bred. There is no information about the conditions that the dogs are kept in currently, what they're fed or where they sleep. I'm not saying that this information will be on every responsible breeders site, but most will be more personal and will give more details and invite you to check them out.

These puppies are not cheap. You can find a healthy, happy puppy for the same kind of money, that is guaranteed and is AKC registered and that you can be sure doesn't come from a puppy mill or backyard breeder. 
There are lots of good breeders but you need to ask questions and get answers and DON'T go see the puppies!!! 
There are a lot of wonderful breeders here on this forum and lots of owners that are very happy with their breeders who can share their information.

Just tonight I was on the HCA site and clicked on the breeders referral list. They have a long list of REPUTABLE breeders that do health testing on all their puppies parents, listed by state, with lots of them currently with available puppies listed in red. 
Please take your time with your decision, it will be worth it!

Beverly


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## pjewel

After taking a second look I'd say run, don't walk in the opposite direction. I'm sure you'll get many suggestions from people here about breeders in the New York area. I didn't get my boys locally but quite a number of people did. Hang in there and get the right puppy, not just a cute face. I almost made that mistake the year before I got Milo and I'm so glad I listened to my inner voice. That was long before I found this group.


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## bentimom

hi,
a good breeder will not ship puppies. you have to pick them up at the breeders home. run like heck.
m
good luck,
michelle


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## pjewel

bentimom said:


> hi,
> a good breeder will not ship puppies. you have to pick them up at the breeders home. run like heck.
> m
> good luck,
> michelle


Not necessarily true. There are good breeders who ship puppies.


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## gelbergirl

Is it possible for you to consider other breeders. Perhaps someone we might know and recommend. Are you affiliated with this breeder?
Because, it may be you are here to refine his website?

Just trying to protect the breed.


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## bentimom

I would not want my puppy shipped in cargo under any circumstance.
michelle


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## Melissa Miller

I think some breeders will ship under CERTAIN circumstances. Like, short distances and on certain airlines. I agree with Michelle, I would never ever want my new puppy to go cargo. Not knocking those who have.


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## EstrellaVila

Honestly, RUN!!!

The website scares me for several reasons: the "parents" can be as young as 8 months old??? That is still a puppy; and he should not be cranking out puppies every few months; there is no health testing (Offa, Cerf, Baer...) to be found, no guarantee to a registry??? What the heck does that mean? He doesnt pay for genetic related vet bills or will help you out if something goes wrong ??? 

I just dont like it... I am new to the breed but I gave myself a nice crash course in the show world and learned A LOT from several AMAZING local breeders. 

A puppy is a lifelong investment and will be a member of your family and cannot be an impulse decision. You are doing a good job joining the forum and asking these questions. Look on the HCA website for breeder referrals and even go to local dog shows to meet these people. It really helps, and they will seriously help you out. Hav's are expensive, be ready to pay a large amount from a reputable breeder and dont shop around for discounts, there just is not such a thing.


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## irnfit

This guy advertises in every newspaper, all the time. Sells his Havs for $950 but I haven't seen his ads for a while. I would run the other way fast. Too many litters, no testing, etc.


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## lfung5

the one word that comes to mind after viewing his website is, YIKES.

Those poor dogs! He is clearly in for the money and not for the love of the breed.


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## Looking4AHav

gelbergirl said:


> Is it possible for you to consider other breeders. Perhaps someone we might know and recommend. Are you affiliated with this breeder?
> Because, it may be you are here to refine his website?
> Just trying to protect the breed.


I would definitely take a recommendation to a Breeder in NY. I am not affiliated with him in any way.


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## RIstream

Take a look at the website for T-Wags in Florida. Even if you don't use Tim{we did and our Cooper is awesome} his site has sooo much info on what to look for. Good Luck


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## JetersMom

*NY Breeder- Upstate NY*

Jeff
I live in Syracuse Ny and am the owner of 2 havanese that I got from local breeders. The more experienced breeder is Linda Brown and she's in La Fayette - 30 miles south of Syracuse. SHe does occassionally ship. Her dogs are great and Linda does all the necessary testing and does not over breed. Let me know if you are interested . I just got my second dog - shes 6 months old, from a different breeder but found out that she didn't do all the testing and may have breed the dogs at too young an age.. Sheri


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## bullwinkle

*jeffs havanese*



Looking4AHav said:


> Hi. I'm new to this forum and was wondering if there are any Breeders out there who can help me? Does anyone know anything about this breeder? http://www.jeffshavanese.com/ I've been looking at the havanese for quite a few months and was thinking of purchasing a puppy from him. But I was wondering if his puppies are inbred because it appears that his dogs have puppies every few months. Their not AKC either. Is it very important for a companion dog to AKC?


 My husband called him as he had a pup we were interested in . Am glad I didn't buy tho from what all seem to be saying..


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## KBStrauss

*Syracuse Breeder*



JetersMom said:


> Jeff
> I live in Syracuse Ny and am the owner of 2 havanese that I got from local breeders. The more experienced breeder is Linda Brown and she's in La Fayette - 30 miles south of Syracuse. SHe does occassionally ship. Her dogs are great and Linda does all the necessary testing and does not over breed. Let me know if you are interested . I just got my second dog - shes 6 months old, from a different breeder but found out that she didn't do all the testing and may have breed the dogs at too young an age.. Sheri


Hi JetersMom
Do you have a website or email or phone number for Linda Brown.. I tried to google her and couldn't find her
Thanks
Karen


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## JetersMom

*Syracuse Breeder*

I know she moved since I bought Jeter. I do have an old phone number 315-677-9731, I lost her cell but if I see her ad in the classifieds anytime soon I'll send that. Let me know if the home number I gave you works

Sheri


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## karlabythec

Poor little Ponce...I didn't know our havanese were "out of coat"...that is a term I hear with GSD's...looks like he was shaved down...I think Ponce is cute, not going through an "ugly stage"...anyway, I suggest you look for a more reputable breeder...you will get some good suggestions here.
http://www.jeffshavanese.com/breeds_categ.php?id=50
ponce
Sex: Male Age: 21 weeks 
Price: 800
About Me puppy is out of coat and needs a home now
reduced price no papers same health guarantee
coat wlll thicken up in 2 -4 months
he is just going thru the ugly stage right now ... (Read more)


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## Havtahava

I'm no expert, but I'd guess something else is going on with Ponce. At 5 months old, he should be in the prime of his coat. I've never heard of a puppy "out of coat" and those pictures don't look like a chewed coat or a coat that was cut poorly. It doesn't look like a "stage". It looks like a condition - like a medical condition.

Also, I wonder if he has had his BAER (hearing) test done. With no coloring, and no pigment (although it is hard to tell from the quality of those photos), it makes me wonder.


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## pjewel

Havtahava said:


> I'm no expert, but I'd guess something else is going on with Ponce. At 5 months old, he should be in the prime of his coat. I've never heard of a puppy "out of coat" and those pictures don't look like a chewed coat or a coat that was cut poorly. It doesn't look like a "stage". It looks like a condition - like a medical condition.
> 
> Also, I wonder if he has had his BAER (hearing) test done. With no coloring, and no pigment (although it is hard to tell from the quality of those photos), it makes me wonder.


I agree. He looks like something is wrong with him. And, from what I've read on his site, it doesn't look as if he does any testing. But then again, his champions are from that bogus group.


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## karlabythec

Maybe he had mange or something???


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## Havtahava

I don't know anything about mange except a few stories. Doesn't mange usually leave bald spots?


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## karlabythec

I think, so he is probably too young to have had that and have it growing out. Some of his adults are shaved down in the photo's page link...maybe he just shaved the puppy...but seems it wouldn't be needed at this age. When I got Gracie at 4 months, she had been cut down, not shaved, but her hair was short...the breeder asked me if I wanted to bring her back for a trim last week...I'm like...NO WAY!


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## Havtahava

Obviously, the quality of the photos isn't the best, but that is not a shaved puppy if you look at all the stray hairs. Shaved dogs don't have a bunch of fine, long hairs poking out in various places - just my opinion, of course. (Also, I don't think he'd be described as "out of coat" if he were shaved down.)


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## karlabythec

What on earth would cause a puppy to lose hair like that? So weird...poor little puppy. Maybe he just isn't healthy...


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## karlabythec

Maybe Ponce is really a Chinese Crested... hahahaha


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## hedygs

Poor little boy. It sure looks like he is ill. I wonder if he needs help....poor baby.


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## juliav

Oh the poor puppy, he really doesn't look well.


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## Havtahava

I wonder how he sets the prices. Ponce was $800 earlier today. Now he's $1200 - probably from all the hits to his page today.


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## BeverlyA

I wonder if this could possibly be Sebaceous Adenitis (SA)? It's an auto-immune disease that effects the skin and hair. I don't know if it's possible to effect an animal that young or not, but I know it has shown up in a few Hav's.

Beverly


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## hedygs

Havtahava said:


> I wonder how he sets the prices. Ponce was $800 earlier today. Now he's $1200 - probably from all the hits to his page today.


I keep looking at the poor boy. That breeder, which is too kind a word to use for what he is, should be prosecuted and shut down.


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## AgilityHav

It could be SA, that is starting to grow back....I have friends with poodles, and it is a HUGE problem in poodles(a good number of the poodles you see in the show ring have/have had extensions at one point in time due to hair loss. they are trying to breed it out, but it is everywhere in the breed!) and, since Havs are closley related to poodles...its very possible.....my 2 Cents 

Anyway, I too would run.....long and far away...


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## sweetlotus

Ponce's hair has grown back out!


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## Sheri

It still looks pretty scruffy and uneven to me.

Sheri


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## windfallhavs

The pigment and the front legs alone would have me screaming for the hills.


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## JCChaplin

Hi,
I have a little info. on the "breeder" jeff. When I read your post, I thought that I recognized his name. To make a long story short, we got our Havanese from a breeder on long Island. However, I know a lot more now than I did when we were originally looking. The place we got him from breeds many different types of dogs, which I now know is not the best scenario to begin with. They told us that they got our Hav from a breeder that they work with who only breeds Havanese. I thought that I remembered seeing his name on our dogs papers. I did some checking and I e-mailed him . Sure enough, he confirmed that he was the breeder who bred our dog and he told me to go to his web site to see my dogs parents. Now, a couple of things. Our dog is absolutely adorable, but some of you may remember that I posted about 6 months ago regarding his front legs/paws. I thought that he had chondrodysplasia, but Tom King looked at his pictures and was kind enough to tell me that it is not CD, but just a not so desirable front. His paws are "easty/westy". Tom said that a reputable breeder would not breed a dog with that type of front, but for a pet(which he is) it is fine. In addition, I happen to live very close to jeff the "breeder" so I asked if I could come meet my dogs parents. He kept up the e-mails with me for a while, but once he found out that I am not looking for another dog, he abruptly stopped communicating. So, the bottom line is, we are lucky to have a healthy adorable dog, but I think he is a backyard breeder who is in it for the money. Good Luck finding a reputable breeder!


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## irnfit

I had caled him at one point when I was looking. I asked some specific questions about testing, parents, etc and got the same answers. After doing some research, I decided to stay away from him.


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## pjewel

JCChaplin said:


> Hi,
> I have a little info. on the "breeder" jeff. When I read your post, I thought that I recognized his name. To make a long story short, we got our Havanese from a breeder on long Island. However, I know a lot more now than I did when we were originally looking. The place we got him from breeds many different types of dogs, which I now know is not the best scenario to begin with. They told us that they got our Hav from a breeder that they work with who only breeds Havanese. I thought that I remembered seeing his name on our dogs papers. I did some checking and I e-mailed him . Sure enough, he confirmed that he was the breeder who bred our dog and he told me to go to his web site to see my dogs parents. Now, a couple of things. Our dog is absolutely adorable, but some of you may remember that I posted about 6 months ago regarding his front legs/paws. I thought that he had chondrodysplasia, but Tom King looked at his pictures and was kind enough to tell me that it is not CD, but just a not so desirable front. His paws are "easty/westy". Tom said that a reputable breeder would not breed a dog with that type of front, but for a pet(which he is) it is fine. In addition, I happen to live very close to jeff the "breeder" so I asked if I could come meet my dogs parents. He kept up the e-mails with me for a while, but once he found out that I am not looking for another dog, he abruptly stopped communicating. So, the bottom line is, we are lucky to have a healthy adorable dog, but I think he is a backyard breeder who is in it for the money. Good Luck finding a reputable breeder!


He's a scary guy who's definitely in it for the money. His prices have about doubled in the relatively recent past and he breeds those poor baby girls often before they're a year old. Wonder where he got his dogs from.


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## KBStrauss

I had the same experience as Michele.. I called him and he was not as forthcoming as I thought he should be. He got defensive when I asked about testing.. and mentioned that he had been doing this for 15 yrs and had no complaints.. I would definitely stay away from him


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## sweetlotus

OMG! As someone who almost bought a pup from this guy b/c he was in NY, I visit his site now and then out of sheer curiosity. He has a pup posted with 1/4 of his feet missing because his mom cleaned him too well??? Do hav moms EVER eat their pup's feet off?? 

And poor Monty looks like he has issues too. This is really sad


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## gelbergirl

The OP hasn't been back either. Was she a promoter?


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## irnfit

pjewel said:


> He's a scary guy who's definitely in it for the money. His prices have about doubled in the relatively recent past and he breeds those poor baby girls often before they're a year old. Wonder where he got his dogs from.


Geri, that's what I would like to know. Where is he getting his breeding dogs from? Is he going to auctions or pet stores?


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## Havtahava

sweetlotus said:


> Do hav moms EVER eat their pup's feet off??


 Unfortunately, I've experienced something very similar. The mother ate the skin off the foot by accident (not the whole foot though - that would take bone & muscle). I had the puppy euthanized hours after delivery.


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## Sheri

Kimberly, do you know why the mom did that? Did she harm her other pups? Did you dare breed her again?


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## Havtahava

It was the first born and she was in a lot of pain. I assume she was so freaked out she tried to pull it out herself with her teeth (it was born feet first) and just got a little too rough. A whelping consultant had another theory that she was needing some other dietary assistance (and gave me specific direction), which caused her to be frantic, so I gave her the supplements and she was fine. Yes, I will breed her again. She had three puppies after that first one, and another litter after that and did just fine. It was an ugly learning situation for many of us. (I have a great support group of breeders that I share my experiences with that also led me to the whelping consultant.)


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## Sheri

Wow. Another reason to leave the breeding up to those of you who have the knowledge and grits!! That would have been quite terrifying!


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## letter4tony

Go figure, I just got off the phone with this guy. He told me the process of how acquiring a puppy goes about. Down payment, visits once a week until they are ready to go/or paid off (which comes first, I really don't know) but he was really quick to fill in the silent gaps when I was preparing to aska question about lineage and etc.

I'm in NY as well, and have been looking hard for a breeder to no avail. Sweetlotus I read your other thread back when you were looking for your own pup, did you end up following throughw ith that innitial place you deposited for?

I'm really looking for a good breeder around my area. Thought I would chime that in as well


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## Carefulove

L4T, check out El Divo Havanese, they are in NY I think. I spoke with Anthony once and he was very nice. I think he does all the health testing and had puppies recently. His pups are $ 2000


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## sweetlotus

Hi Tony, I did end up getting a puppy from that breeder, but I won't be recommending her to anyone. I tried to communicate with her after I bought Mochi and she just had a horrible attitude. She didn't even respond when I sent updates and photos of Mochi. She also got really defensive when I tried to question her about health testing and said that her puppies were always healthy and never had any problems. I found this forum AFTER I put the deposit down and won't ever be making the same mistakes again. However, I am obviously very very lucky because Mochi is the most amazing puppy EVER 

Just because a breeder doesn't do all the health tests doesn't mean that you won't get a great pet, but the question is, why take that risk? 

I just want to add one last thing. Thank god for this forum b/c I definitely didn't get any help from my breeder on how to raise Mochi. She even showed me how to do an alpha roll on another 8 week old puppy when I was picking Mochi up. She was very harsh and mean to the poor puppy and yelled at it while pinning him on his back. I was very shocked and will never deal with her again.


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## JetersMom

I know NY think Upstate is another country but Linda Brown ( Ashlynn's Havanese) is an experienced breeder and does all the testing. SHe is in La Fayette NY about 4;5 hours from the city. SHe occassionally ships under the right circumstances. She does all the testing. I got my 5 year old male from her and he has the best temperment. Linda's number is 315-455-6285 My doctor has 3 havanese , all from Linda, and he is also happy.

Sheri D
Syracuse NY


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## letter4tony

Wow, Thanks Sheri. I'm so glad I found this forum. Does she have an email or site? I'd hate to have to call her and intrude on her everyday life 

She looks very promising from what I've googled, (not that your reference only isn't satisfying of course )


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## pjewel

There are also reputable breeders in New Jersey, Connecticut and Pennsylvania. Many of the people here can tell you about their favorites.


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## Carefulove

You know, I went home last night thinking about this. Then I realized that I had emailed this man (Jeff) through one of the direct links on breeders. net I think. I of course, asked all the "are they tested, blah blah" questions. I never heard from him.

Some of the breeders I found and exchanged emails with are:

El Divo Havanese His Pucci had puppies recently. He is in NY and his puppies are $ 2000

De Vita Havanese . She is in CT and her puppies are $ 2000. Her dogs are Health Tested

Mt. Breeze Havanese. She is in PA and her dogs are also health tested. I believe her puppies are $ 1500

Avonlea Havanese. I think she is also in PA and per puppies are $ 1500.

I found this ones recently. Happy Havs Farm. She has beautiful dogs!

Do your homework before you buy a puppy. The same way a breeder asks you to fill out a questionnaire (not all do), you can ask questions too.
Good luck!


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## Brady's mom

My breeder is in PA also. She is Diane Koch of woodland havanese www.woodlandhavanese.com. She does all of the health testing and shows most of her dogs. She has one puppy right now (she was a singleton) and I think she is evaluating her and deciding whether to keep her. I don't think she has any other litters on the way yet, but she has a female in season right now who I think she is breeding. You could certainly contact her if you want more information. Her dogs are $2000.


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## letter4tony

We've been trying very hard and being diligent in finding the right breeder for us!!!!

Thanks for all those iwth the constructive input. I've reached out to many breeders and many of them have been very nice.

Anthony over at El Divo has some beautiful puppies as he sent me pictures. We have fallen in love at the sight of them, and it's only pictures!!! Unfortunately, that was the last time I heard from him (about a week ago?) and haven't heard from him yet. Left messages and sent emails  I might have scared him off!

Only time will tell. Wish me luck everybody!!!


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## Carefulove

Keep trying, there are other breeders available, and good luck!


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## virtualet

Hi Tony

Did you finally get a pup? What breeder did you use?

My wife and I are looking to buy a pup as well, and we're in Brooklyn. Finding a good breeder is tough! I've called up many of them, and i've been getting various answers regarding health tests. sigh... i just need someone to tell me who to go to, and to just buy a dog from them. simple. haha

we almost bought a dog from Jeff's Havanese as well, but knowing what we know now, we're glad we didn't

anyone heard of these breeders?

-Canterby, in Roslyn Heights, NY
-"Havanese Puppies Ready to Go" in Medford/Vincentown, NJ. The lady isnt' very computer savvy, so I don't think this is the name of her organization
-Nutmeg Havanese in Connecticut

Also, what do you guys think of a breeder who gets the hips checked out by a vet, but doesn't do the genetic testing? thoughts?


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## Jill in Mich

virtualet said:


> Hi Tony
> 
> Also, what do you guys think of a breeder who gets the hips checked out by a vet, but doesn't do the genetic testing? thoughts?


You'll here from many people but basically :bolt: RUN!

You might want to go through some of the other threads in the puppy and health section for excellent information on what you should be looking for and the importance of buying from a reputable breeder.

Good Luck and Welcome!


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## letter4tony

virtualet said:


> Hi Tony
> 
> Did you finally get a pup? What breeder did you use?
> 
> My wife and I are looking to buy a pup as well, and we're in Brooklyn. Finding a good breeder is tough! I've called up many of them, and i've been getting various answers regarding health tests. sigh... i just need someone to tell me who to go to, and to just buy a dog from them. simple. haha
> 
> we almost bought a dog from Jeff's Havanese as well, but knowing what we know now, we're glad we didn't
> 
> anyone heard of these breeders?
> 
> -Canterby, in Roslyn Heights, NY
> -"Havanese Puppies Ready to Go" in Medford/Vincentown, NJ. The lady isnt' very computer savvy, so I don't think this is the name of her organization
> -Nutmeg Havanese in Connecticut
> 
> Also, what do you guys think of a breeder who gets the hips checked out by a vet, but doesn't do the genetic testing? thoughts?


Yes, we have a pup that is currently from Happyhav farm. One of hte links earlier. Marian and her daughter Carrie are GREAT people. All her pups are health tested, AKC registered, but one of her recent pups mother was CKC registered so her pups will be CKC as well. The father is an AKC registered dog. She is a wonderful person. We live in Astoria ourselves and will be getting our puppy sometime in June .

Give her a call, she had two litters recently and might still have some pups available.


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## cjsud

I live in the next town over from Medford/Vincentown and do not know of this breeder. There was a big too do a while back about someone selling sick havs I think I found it by googling NJ Havanese. It may have been on ripoff.com. I do not know the breeder or if the story was true or not.

anyone heard of these breeders?

-Canterby, in Roslyn Heights, NY
-"Havanese Puppies Ready to Go" in Medford/Vincentown, NJ. The lady isnt' very computer savvy, so I don't think this is the name of her organization
-Nutmeg Havanese in Connecticut

Also, what do you guys think of a breeder who gets the hips checked out by a vet, but doesn't do the genetic testing? thoughts?[/QUOTE]


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## Carefulove

letter4tony said:


> ...Give her a call, she had *two* litters recently and might still have some pups available.


Three, one will be CKC and two AKC.


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## letter4tony

Carefulove said:


> Three, one will be CKC and two AKC.


This is true. Three of them, but two only worth mentioning since the puppies of the 1st litter are already reserved for families.


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## stephie1027

Is the consensus that Jeffs havanese is a breeder to stay away from? Im in the NYC area and looking for a puppy jeffshavanese.com


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## Cherin36

Hi, I live in NYC. I got Chewy from a wonderful breeder in the area-about 2 hours away. Does all the health testing and is registered on the websites so you can check.
If you would like to know more, please PM me.
Thanks,
Erin


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## FancyNancy

try to stay away from Blossom Havanese in Woodstock, NY. Several people I know have gotten dogs from her with severe allergies and bent legs.


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## krandall

stephie1027 said:


> Is the consensus that Jeffs havanese is a breeder to stay away from? Im in the NYC area and looking for a puppy jeffshavanese.com


YES, YES, YES!!! PLEASE find another breeder!!!


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## hedygs

stephie1027 said:


> Is the consensus that Jeffs havanese is a breeder to stay away from? Im in the NYC area and looking for a puppy jeffshavanese.com


Far away.


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## FancyNancy

pretty hard to get more of a consensus than that!


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## Jplatthy

Isn't that what happened with McGee that got adopted on this forum.....the mom chewed his foot off accidentally?


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## stephie1027

Thanks everyone. he is def off my list. Does anyone know anything about Woodlandhavanese.com with Diane Koch?


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## The Laughing Magpie

I think that there is someone on the forum that has more then one dog from this breeder and I remember they are very happy.......Who would that be????? I hope she reads this post so she can tell you.


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## trueblue

The Laughing Magpie said:


> I think that there is someone on the forum that has more then one dog from this breeder and I remember they are very happy.......Who would that be????? I hope she reads this post so she can tell you.


Karen got Brady from Woodland. She is very very happy with her breeder...and her dogs are gorgeous!


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## Brady's mom

Yes, it is me. One of the loves of my life, Brady, is a Woodlands boy. Brady is almost 5 years old. He is wonderful and the reason for many havanese in my world. My Mom now has a havanese, my aunt now has a havanese (another Woodland pup) and many friends  Dianne does all the health testing and socializes her dogs. She also shows her dogs. Dianne has always been approachable with any questions I have had. She is particular about her dogs going to homes where someone is home most of the time. If you have any additional questions, please let me know.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Hehe, I knew someone would speak up. Unless you were sufering the net for a breeder you would not notice that if you were looking for a breeder called Jefe who I hear is a very good breeder, often Jeff comes up. Jefe is in Mn, I think sometimes people spell it wrong. Just an observation.


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## MaggieMay

I just wanted to add to this thread, my baby is from jeff's havanese. I personally had a good experience with him. I've been to his house, visited with my pup every other week before I could take her home, met the parents, and got alot of advice and training from him. He treats his dogs very very well. He only raises havanese, all at his house. My puppy is a well tempered, well socialized pup. I couldn't be happier with her. His prices are a bit high for the chocolate but that's what I wanted. I don't really want to debate this, just wanted to give my experience since no one here has actually gotten a puppy from him. JMO


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## Kathie

McGee is my puppy - what is the question about him? His breeder decided to give him a chance at life when her vet recommended euthanasia. We are so thankful she nixed that idea. All she wanted for him was a family who would love him. She gave him to us strictly for that purpose and that is what we're now doing! He is a happy healthy boy who runs all over the place playing with his big sister!


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## krandall

MaggieMay said:


> I just wanted to add to this thread, my baby is from jeff's havanese. I personally had a good experience with him. I've been to his house, visited with my pup every other week before I could take her home, met the parents, and got alot of advice and training from him. He treats his dogs very very well. He only raises havanese, all at his house. My puppy is a well tempered, well socialized pup. I couldn't be happier with her. His prices are a bit high for the chocolate but that's what I wanted. I don't really want to debate this, just wanted to give my experience since no one here has actually gotten a puppy from him. JMO


We've heard that from other people too, and that's nice. But from everything we've heard, he does no health testing on the dogs. Also, I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly some or all of them were not AKC registered.


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## MaggieMay

Just wanted to add also from my experience Maggie's parents were health tested, and AKC registered. Maggie has papers to register her with AKC but I can't be bothered she's just my pet. 
It just bothers me that there are bad things said about a breeder all based on a website, never having met Jeff or got a dog from him. I felt I had to comment. I would get another puppy from him in a heartbeat. Again JMO.


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## Lynn

MaggieMay said:


> Just wanted to add also from my experience Maggie's parents were health tested, and AKC registered. Maggie has papers to register her with AKC but I can't be bothered she's just my pet.
> It just bothers me that there are bad things said about a breeder all based on a website, never having met Jeff or got a dog from him. I felt I had to comment. I would get another puppy from him in a heartbeat. Again JMO.


It is too bad when some people make negative comments about breeders when they are not sure.


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## jeffshavanese

Hi everyone ,
Just wanted to let you all know i have been keeping silent and have decided enough is enough. I am not looking to argue with anyone . In my defense please visit my site to see the AKC inspection report ,all my adult dogs are Cerf tested yearly at Dr. Sapienza who is a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmologists. Dr David Halpern of Lefferts Animal Hospital has on file patella reports on each of my adult dogs.
My dogs are part of my family and live in my home.
Every negative comment posted so far on here has been posted by people in other states,and not by one person who has ever visited my home or purchased a puppy . 
This is an undeniable fact! Why people speculate the negative is not my concern but i will admit it is upsetting . I personally have asked people not to go on here and defend me as i feel its like feeding cats , the people who just like to spread negativity will just swarm to fight. Admittedly i can be gruff at first on the phone , but any breeder will tell you some of the calls we get and questions we are asked can at dinner times etc , be trying . If that's my short fall in my personality i can only say sorry for that.
I love my dogs , and try and spend as much time with them as possible as they are my life . I try to screen for good homes as best i can , and i do take deposits after pups are 2 weeks old and open my home up biweekly so families can visit and socialize with the puppy they have chosen for many reasons . Reason one is to watch the interaction of the new adopters with their puppy, so they can watch their puppy develop and partake in the milestones of their puppy life ie his/her first tail wag.
This unique approach allows me to over see the interactions and give advice and training tips . All adopters get a printed guide i have written for house breaking and i answer emails and questions with in hours of the question. I give tremendous after care and training support. For the record my dogs are AKC registered and also APRI registered , APRI MEANS AMERICAN PET REGISTRY not some store on long island.
I travel to the shows to a very welcoming bunch of people who do not care that i walk with a limp and allow me to handle my own dogs in the ring . I plan on attending upcoming AKC events with my partner as a handler in the very near future.
I give a health certificate with every puppy issued with in 7 days prior to the puppies departure along with a one year written health guarantee. I also give out an individual health record on each puppy , with its pedigree . I am licensed and inspected by NYS Department Of Agriculture and AKC and have never had a violation .
I want to thank the Havanese Forum for allowing me the opportunity to set the record straight , and ask anyone who has any other questions to please email me privately at [email protected] so this matter can be put to rest. 
I wish every member of the board all the best .
Jeffrey


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## Suzi

Sheri said:


> Kimberly, do you know why the mom did that? Did she harm her other pups? Did you dare breed her again?


 I asked someone why a bitch would do that and her theory was that sometimes there temperature goes up to high and they can go a bit crazy. I'm so glad Mcgee is here with us .


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## The Laughing Magpie

Let’s be clear: the APRI is not the AKC. The APRI is a registry supported by the pet industry and does not seem to address whether dogs conform to breed standards, which are set by the AKC and other similar organizations in other countries. AKC registered dogs are eligible to enter a AKC show if they conform to breed standards. On the APRI site, it’s hard to tell what kind of standards the APRI has because some links wouldn’t open. 

While Jeff’s Havanese may be breeding lovely pets, he does not seem to have the goal of enhancing the breed by producing dogs that are winning AKC conformation championships, which is the gold standard for determining the best representatives of the breed. Although his website says he has champion dogs he does not specify who they received their championships from, except for the pictures of some dogs with APRI blue ribbons. 

To some extent, this is a philosophical discussion. I subscribe to the philosophy that the purpose of breeding should be to improve the breed. Breeders who share this philosophy often have some dogs that are not show quality, and these dogs can be purchased as pets. Similarly, people can buy show quality dogs as pets without ever showing the dogs. Dogs from breeders like this are extensively health tested, which typically includes DNA testing, eye checks, and patella checks, all designed to limit the breeding of dogs with genetic problems. As a result, it is possible to buy pets from breeders who have records of success breeding dogs that win AKC conformation championships. Although buying from a breeder like this may be a little more difficult than buying from a pet store or a breeder who is not breeding with breed standards in mind, there are far too many dogs being produced in this country, and I believe that breeding pets without the goal of improving the breed adds unnecessarily to the over-population.


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## jeffshavanese

okay so lets be clear  i never said AKC IS APRI

once again i am not looking to argue

Both clubs strive to insure proper record keeping and both clubs will register a non show dog . both clubs require a valid traceable pedigree

AKC also gives a lot of legitimacy to the mills , a lot more so then APRI , " if its AKC its got to be good"
google search why that might be

Breeders make the clubs (that is what both are, clubs) Papers are only as good as what is reported by the breeder. Yes they both do spot checks and visit breeders.

As stated by me earlier my dogs are DNA tested by AKC and AKC did send out an inspector name etc on my site , Jeffs Havanese

Also to be clear , previously stated and Not challenged by senior members (what is a senior member, the title gives the impression

one would be a breeder or a judge to gain such a title) were untruths and slanderous statements like about Jeffs havanese such as :

I was not testing , i was breeding dogs at 4 months of age , "it doesn't look as if he does any testing". "But then again, his champions

are from that bogus group" a senior member stating "That breeder, which is too kind a word to use for what he is, should be

prosecuted and shut down.".how hurtful ! a 'Super moderator sating "He's a scary guy who's definitely in it for the money. His prices have about doubled in the relatively recent past and he breeds those poor baby girls often before they're a year old" Wonder where he got his dogs from."and another favorite from a senior member "YES, YES, YES!!! PLEASE find another breeder!!!
__________________
__________________
I am not looking to debate with you and as stated earlier AKC IS NOT APRI but dogs can be duel registered .

APRI scores dogs on 1 -Ring Presence appearance : points on grooming/conditioning,symmetry & balance ,coat, overall impression.
Movement:gait, tracking, rhythm
temperament:shy or nervous,aggressive, unruly

2 -Head points on muzzle/stop,bite, teeth, eyes,ears,expression

3-Bodyoints on topline,chest, ribcage,size&weight,neck& shoulders,tail

4- Front & Rear Quarters: points on feet,legs,shoulders, hips, angulation.

please lets stop with the slander innuendo and un truths .

Someone please define what the different classes of members mean and is anyone on here participating or making a comment that breeds or shows dogs other then me ? 
I wonder why the attacks ,They are seeming a vested interest by members on here

non of which have ever met me , attended an APRI

show etc, is it they are steering people to other breeders , they are affiliated with ,

people thay have purchased from or are they just hateful ?

Lastly please email me directly with questions as to not clog up the board with this @ [email protected]


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## krandall

Hi Jeff,

I think if you'd like people to feel more comfortable with you as a breeder, it's best for for people to ask their questions here, in public and you can also clear the air here in public. It sounds like some of the misunderstandings may come from missing information on your website, which might be valuable feed back for you to hear!

As far as "senior" and "junior" members, those are just assigned by the forums software, and most people who post here regularly know that. Senior status only means you've made a certain number of posts... If I remember right, it's 100 posts. So there are LOTS of "senior members". Moderators and super moderators are those who actually do the work of running the forum. 

And yes, there are a number of good, reputable breeders on the forum. They are NOT allowed to advertise puppies here, and most have waiting lists for their puppies. So they are not here looking for business, but to be a support to newer Hav owners, and to participate in what is a fun, supportive community.

While you have mentioned that you do DNA testing, CERF and patella "checks", you don't talk about x-rays, either of patellas or hips, not do you mention BAER testing on the puppies. Do you do these? Are the results posted with OFA? Do your breeder dogs have CHIC numbers so people can go look up and verify the testing themselves?

Also, do you provide soaped pictures of the parents and puppy to potential owners?

I do think it's great that you work hard on finding the right family for each of your pups, and that you encourage socialization with their future families before they are old enough to leave home!


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## pjewel

Jeff, I said what I said years ago strictly based upon what you had on your web site. You mentioned the age of the mothers and a number of them were under a year old. That did scare me. You also were at the time asking about half the price that you started asking sometime after that. At the time you had no mention of any of the standard testing most knowledgable buyers look for in the hopes it will give their new family member the best chance at a healthy life.

OTOH, when one of our then members got her adorable puppy from you, I was the one who encouraged her as many others here back then did not. If you've grown in the way you do business, that's a good thing, both for you and for your future puppy parents.


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## jeffshavanese

No need to be scared :frusty:, my web site did not date properly at the time but you should know a 4 month old does not breed and if you ever have any questions just pick up the phone or email its far nicer then speculating. My mom raised me if i have nothing nice to say not to say it 
As i encourage anyone do not jump to conclusions based on internet postings anyone can post and on some sites the more gibberish you write the more higher your status on the site . I am home with my dogs 7 days a week , that's no vacations , many missed family outings , my dogs come first . I do this for my love of Havanese and i Did go to collage and take animal genetics courses amongst other complementary course studies all animal related,(and graduated) but again i am not here to debate my qualifications . 
i will happily soap up any dogs legs when any potential person asks when visiting.
"Patellae may be checked by your general veterinarian who is experienced palpating and grading the patellae" they are on file with DR Halpern who readily supplies them to prospective adopters and he checks patellas on all pups before leaving my home at 9-10 weeks .
okay i have pups to play with and have spent more time on the forum then i ever wanted to .
I know i produce great dogs , i know i am very careful to try and better the breed with each breeding and that's what counts


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## Suzi

Hi Jeff,
I'm glad you joined the Havanese Forum And you are able to come on and let us all know about your knowledge and experiences with your breeding program.
I am curious about the age you start a bitch out having puppy's. The reason folks are concerned is one we mostly believe here on the form that a reputable breeder has all the health testing done before starting a breeding program. And that can't be done before the age of 2. And making a dog have pup's before that time is not healthy for the animal.
I'm sorry for you that your breeding program is being the topic of conversation and in a negative way . I would like to someday become a small hobby breeder and am taking steps to be able to have some litters. I have been learning from the folks here on this Forum and their is a lot to learn. What I'm trying to say is that maybe this hole trend could be a good learning experience for you and your breeding program could make some changes. Go on to some of our Breeders web sites look and read about their Havanese.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Funny many people got of track. Jeff is in business and should not be crying hurtful. If someones pup was picked on, that is hurtful. We are talking about a business here, there is nothing personal about it.

I posted about the APRI and their 'shows'. We did get away from that by some members taking this as personal. Many of our members are new, I understand that they do not know some of the ins and outs of the breeding industry, they may not even care or have the time. Some of us do care, I am one. We all love our pets no matter who they came from after, we get them we love them. Please do not expect that I will send people to any breeder just because someone got a nice pet,frankly that is not enough. As for Jeff what is happening on the forum is "The Cost of Doing Business".

For those of you who would like to understand a little bit more about the AKC and pet registrys in general, who they are and what they mean, here are a few websites. One was written by a Chihuahua breed, but the content is very important. 
http://www.ahkennel.net/beware.htm

1.	http://vetrescue.blogspot.com/2010/06/things-to-consider-before-you-register.html - Similar pages

1.	http://www.heartlandgdr.org/dog_registries.htm - Similar pages


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## JCChaplin

You should all know that I will remove my previous post because This "wonderful Breeder" Jeff is threatening me with legal action if I do not. You may interpret that as you like.


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## vanessag

We got our dog from Jeff's Havanese and couldn't be happier with the experience. He really cares about his dogs and even checks in periodically to see how Diego is doing. We knew that we wanted a Havanese and did lots of research before going to Jeff. He came highly recommended and we were pleased from the day we went to look at puppies up until now.


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## CacheHavs

Wow! I am just now reading all this and catching up on such an old thread revived again.



JCChaplin said:


> You should all know that I will remove my previous post because This "wonderful Breeder" Jeff is threatening me with legal action if I do not. You may interpret that as you like.


Sorry that this is happening to you, guess if it is truthful it hurts eh?

Jeff I do not know you, nor do I know any of your breeding practices. However I can tell you as a breeder of 30+ years, I do this strictly as a hobby. In all my years of breeding and showing etc. I have only been lucky if I ever broke even on my puppy sales. I put thousands of dollars into my dogs to do all the health testing that I can on ALL my breeding dogs, as well as show them to their championship titles if at all possible. ALL of my health test on my dogs are published and listed on OFA's web site, is your's?? I have not been able to find any. 
You say you do CERF's and Patella's, that is great, but have not found them on OFA, and what about,BAER, Hips and Elbows, or Cardiac Or even 
LCP's? These are all test that should be done and submitted into OFA for all to see. I know that if I was looking for a puppy I would not just take your word for it that it was done, nor would I believe a piece of paper that you would maybe hand me as in today's world all those things can be falsified.

I think it is great if you are carefully screening your puppy buyers, and I hope that you are selling these puppies on spay neuter contracts too. It would certainly be a shame if so many people are allowed to have and unaltered dog to do what ever with if they are not experienced or have mentors to help them along. We have so many people wanting to come in and start breeding without having the first clue. Hope you are not adding to that.

These are just questions for you, and another thing, please don't be coming on here and threatening our members, that is just so distasteful.
I am done venting, I have better things to do like get my dogs ready for the show coming up.


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## Pattie

Jeff,

I have deliberately stayed out of this discussion, but now that you have had an opportunity to explain your breeding practices, I feel that I have the right and duty to offer my opinion on what good breeding means to me. 

It's fine that you have provided some pets to folks on HF and elsewhere that they love and are very happy that they have. However, the mark of a good, responsible breeder is one that not only loves each and every puppy they produce, but who does everything possible to guarantee their good health. In my estimation, the only way that can be done is by FULLY health testing the sire and dam of EVERY litter, by insuring that the breeding pair are of a proper age (over two years old); and by registering the health results with OFFA. When that is done, and believe me that is the least expensive part of getting the health testing done, then a person has only fulfilled part of the required things that make for a responsible breeder. The resultant puppies should also be tested in the same way its parents were, regardless of whether the pup is a companion or show prospect.

The breeder's line must be shown to many judges who offer their insight on one's dogs as to how they measure up to the breed standard. It is not enough to tout that a puppy comes from champion bloodlines, when it's sire and dam have not been judged to be good representatives of the Havanese breed.

And then, there is the relationship between the breeder and the puppy owner that must be built on a solid foundation of trust. Hopefully that relationship will grow and always be concerned with the welfare of the puppy into adulthood.

Many years ago, when I was breeding and showing Newfies, I made lasting friendships with my puppy buyers, some that still exist today, even though our mutual dogs have long since passed over the rainbow bridge.

I frankly don't know much about you or your line, but would encourage you to explain why you do not follow through with all of the health testing required by the national breed club. If I am mistaken here, I'd like to hear in what way.


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## jeffshavanese

Pattie , 
i had decided not to answer anymore on this forum as the climate was so hostile , it just is not worth it to me . 
i appreciate at least the compassion and tone of your email so lost here on the forum. 
Most of my dogs i imported from Europe years ago , i went myself and it was at a time when Americans were held in a higher regard. I have friends in Germany and Hungary and with their assistance made connections with top breeders only too happy to sell their best to me, out of the country , eliminating the chance of their own lines competing with them selves.
It was at a time when the American dollar was high against the Forint and you could purchase a quality dog for the equivalent of 4 thousand dollars . 
Here in the USA with the limited gene pool and the American breeders so worried about loosing the monopoly on Havanese and still are, it was impossible .
In Europe the gene pool is larger and quite frankly the quality of all dogs i have seen there much greater. Our American greed has destroyed many breeds here to a large degree including but not limited to the golden retriever with heads like dobermans, Cocker spaniel, that in our county pees when you look at it (YES THERE ARE STILL SOME TOP BREEDERS HERE BUT NOT LIKE IT WAS) , American breeds that the Europeans coveted when they purchased them from us back when AKC was AKC.They paid a high price and maintained the quality of our own dogs that by in large we did not.
I am in contact with my customers and have the same phone number and address for 25 years , i started doing the Cerf , patella tests years ago so i could stop explaining myself. Funny my first test of all my dogs was at a specialist attached with the University of Penn, they all were clear ALL 
So i continued yearly after that and have retired one dog in the years with a questionable result , that's a pretty low average .
Patella were always checked on yearly checkups preformed at my home by my veterinarian Dr Halpern. he keep a list of all my dogs and the results of that. 
Baer testing , well honestly its a hearing test and my dogs all come when i call them individually , so the point is ?
I retire my females at 5 yrs of age always spayed first. 
I have never misrepresented my dogs to any potential adopter ,and never would .
I do this as a hobby and honestly i am winding it down as i would like to have some time to travel , sleep thru a night with out a bark and stop living my life entirely for my dogs .
If you take the time to visit my site you ill see i am a avid gardener and i spend a lot of time making my dogs life rich with fun things to do.
Has anyone seen my treadmill videos on my site? my dogs run an average of 3 miles a day , hows that for heart health ? we have cake parties (HEALTHY of course) weekly in the summer and nightly i fill with treats kongs 20 of them at least and hide them all over my home and property while the dogs are asleep or before they wake so we have treasure hunts daily , yes daily . I think their minds need to be stimulated and it makes for a healthy dog . I claim to produce healthy beautiful Havanese representative of the breed according to the breed standard. Well adjusted with all the breed characteristics Havanese are known for . I never claim to be selling a show dog or one that will win Westminster, i have purchased a few that had that claim behind them , actually just retired a AKC male w 5 majors that to me was far from up to par w a coat like a poodle .not my cup of tea but AKC judges loved him and the handler,breeder i got him from flat ironed his hair to make some points .I can name name i will not , like one breeder who 2 years ago lost his litter except one to parvo ! Parvo ? a preventable disease ,wait he remembers to do his testing but did not vaccinate ? I got the phone calls from the panicked people near xmas time , i never mentioned his name not to a customer not on here , i am not that type of person . I will leave you all to your own devices , the educated people see thru the scare tactics some breeders use , or the give me a deposit but i will not tell you what puppy you can have till the pups are 8 weeks old game .Or the breeders with the fancy contracts (MINE IS STRAIGHT FORWARD i hear it all from the people who find them selves here after realizing the games many breeders play. I return all call and emails with in hours , i treat my potential adopters as people , respect gains respect .I have a following and the more i get bashed on here the more people that hit on my site and the more inquires i get .
Each breeder has their protocol now you know mine . 
THANKS FOR ALLOWING ME TO SHARE , IF ANYONE HAS QUESTIONS EMAIL ME directly . have a great summer!!! 
jeffshavanese


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## Pattie

Jeff,

I read your response with interest and appreciate your reply; however, I asked specifically why you do not follow through on ALL of the required tests that show that a breeder is breeding to better the breed and why you do not register the results with OFFA. You did not answer those 2 questions. 

In my humble opinion, to better the breed and better what you have in your line is the only reason to produce Havanese puppies. There are plenty of people out there who raise Havanese for the money. And frankly, the only way a person can make money on breeding is by not taking proper care of their dogs; not getting them the proper medical care; not having them tested for good health. 

I realize, too, that your dogs can hear you when you call. So can mine. But, that does not mean that they would automatically pass the BAER test. My dogs can see, but it is important for them to be CERF'd annually to make sure that no eye diseases crop up as they grow. Dogs should be certified by a cardiac specialist and should have their hips and elbows X-rayed for the various dysplasias that can occur. And the results of all of these tests should be published on the OFFA site, good and bad.

The only way to prove that you are breeding according to the standard is to exhibit the dogs for fair appraisal by knowledgeable judges. We all suffer from kennel blindness on occasion. 

I agree that flat ironing coats, and otherwise altering our dogs' appearances are plain wrong. But your one example does not explain why you are not showing the dogs that you yourself bred, if as you say they are bred according to the standard.

I would hope that you are using a spay/neuter contract for your puppy buyers. I would hate to see people lining up to breed pets that should not be bred. It is unfortunate but it appears that you are not willing to fully health test your dogs and that makes people suspect that you do not have their best interests at heart. I hope I am wrong about that.

Anyway, I don't intend to belabor the point again. Signing off,

Pattie


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## Suzi

I had no Idea this trend was started three years ago. I need to remember to look at dates.  I hadn't read the whole trend and started from page one took along time then noticed. :blabla::ranger: Gee


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## clairezane

I am very happy with the puppy I purchased from jeffshavanese. I can't imagine a breeder being more helpful than Jeff has been. I have needed assistance to help with the early stages of owning a puppy and Jeff has always been readily available with good advice. In fact the day we picked up our beautiful puppy, Jeff gave a puppy class to all the new puppy parents to help us get started.


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## krandall

clairezane said:


> I am very happy with the puppy I purchased from jeffshavanese. I can't imagine a breeder being more helpful than Jeff has been. I have needed assistance to help with the early stages of owning a puppy and Jeff has always been readily available with good advice. In fact the day we picked up our beautiful puppy, Jeff gave a puppy class to all the new puppy parents to help us get started.


It's great that Jeff is so supportive of his puppy owners. We have never heard anything to refute that, and several people who own his dogs have said the same. The problem is that he doesn't thoroughly health test his breeding stock. Many of us also feel that a good breeder should be showing his breeding stock to their championships in order to get an unbiased outside opinion on whether the dogs produced conform to the standard.

I'm sure I speak for all of us saying that we are very glad that you are happy with your puppy from Jeff, and wish you all the best with him!!!


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## Suzi

I'm just curious is a chocolate Havanese all differant colors and are the light ones considered standered ? Is it just the eyes and nose that make it a chocolate.?


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## Suzi

Non-Legitimate Registries

The Continental Kennel Club and the Canadian Kennel Club are in NO way related even though they share the same initials. Many believe this similarity of name to be a ruse on the part of Continental Kennel Club to trade on the reputation of the Canadian Kennel Club.

The same could be said for the non-legitmate group : FIC Federation of international Canines trading on the legitimate reputation of FCI Fédération Cynologique Internationale because of the very similar names. 

CKC Continental Kennel Club

APRI American Pet Registry Inc.

ACA American Canine Association

UKCI Universal Kennel Club International

NAPDR North American Purebred Dog Registry

DRA Dog Registry of America

APR American Purebred Registry

USKC United States Kennel Club

WWKC World Wide Kennel Club

WKC World Kennel Club

FIC Federation of International Canines

ARU Animal Registry Unlimited


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## Ninja

Don't mean to create a problem but to mee, its very strange how all of a sudden we have 2 new members who joined this month and this is the first thread they come and post on. IDK it would make me question how legit both individuals are due to the timing and all. :suspicious: anyone can create more then 1 account with another email address. Just saying..


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## dodrop82

That made me giggle too, Ninja...Duh!.....opps, sorry! HeeHee....


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## CacheHavs

Ya notice though how for someone so creditable we can't seem to get any straight answers  It's great to have all the new puppy owner support for the small things, but what happens if or when one of those that he has bred ends up with a health problem?? One that may have been prevented in the first place with the proper health testing, but does he stand behind his dogs and would he help with the cost of a very expensive surgery?? 

I pray for yours and your dogs sake that you should never have to go through that, but you know we have had folks here that bought from someone they thought was great and they got the deal of the century on their puppy only to later find out their puppy has now tripled in price because it had to have a expensive surgery and a painful recovery on some thing that could have been prevented in the first place had the breeder actually done a few health test on their breeding stock.


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## stephie1027

@ Ninja: I am the new member that started this thread up again. I live in NYC and was doing my homework on the breeders that are in the surrounding area. I happened to google jeffshavanese and this thread came up. After that I joined knowing that I could utilize this forum since I am in the process of adopting my lil one. I saw that this was a really old post and wanted to re-ask the question so I could get a current consensus instead of just going with what was said so many years ago. I have learned a lot in the last month and thank the members for answering all my questions and I look forward to getting my little boy home. As soon as I get pictures they will be up.  I hope this puts the legitimacy of my membership to rest. I would like to think that this forum is here to answer questions and be supportive especially to newbies like myself who are eager to learn and want to do the best by the breed.


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## Ninja

stephie- My comment was not made about u at all..


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## stephie1027

@Ninja- oh ok.. my bad then.


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## David Halpern DVM

Hello, my name is David Halpern and I am the senior Veterinarian and Medical Director of the Lefferts Animal Hospital. I have been practicing 25 years and have known Jeff of Jeffs Havanese for over 20 of these years. I check all his adult dogs 1-2 time per year and issue health certificates on the puppies he sells. The health certificate is not issued until each puppy is thoroughly checked including the heart, hips, patellas, eyes, and more. I see Havanese from other breeders and many pet stores in my practice and can comfortably say Jeffs are of the highest quality. In addition to my examinations he has all his adults CERF tested and patellas certified. I have seen many of his puppies after sale and the owners are universally satisfied. 
I am not on this site to enter into conversations. My hospital in Queen N.Y. is experienced in caring for this wonderful breed. I welcome any of you whether purchased from Jeff or any other breeder to come visit us.


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## The Laughing Magpie

This is beyond the pale!!!!!!! Shame on you!!!!!!! I would hope a busy DVM would have better things to do then pander to a client. There are no words. Let me remind everyone that this is America we have choices and we all have the right to speak out. Strong arm tactics and intimidation have no place on this forum.

Also let me say I feel very disapointed with the members on the forum who thought becaused they bought a dog from this man and they were happy, that they must find a way to 'make' or 'force' everyone to see things the way they do.


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## FancyNancy

I dont see anything wrong with the Vet's letter or Jeff's attempt to defend himself and his business in the light of so much negativity (much of it unfounded and heresay). Further, I think questioning the legitimacy of new members in this public forum without knowing all the facts is particularly low. Stephie has nothing to apologize for (and by the way, welcome to the forum and I hope you stay in spite of this thread!). In fact, this whole thread has a mean-spirited tone that I think is beneath the good heartedness that is usually the hallmark of the Forum.


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## luv3havs

I have been on this forum for a long time.

I think we have just about covered all the issues with Jeff's Havanese. Can't we just move on?


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## The Laughing Magpie

As I sit back discussed it occurred to me what some people might be missing here is if you look back on any thread asking about a breeder the criteria has remained the same. It is not one thing that determines a good breeder it is many things we have discussed this over and over on this forum. The criteria haven’t changed, because it is sound advice. 

This Breeder does not meet those criteria. I will never agree anyone breeding pet quality pups to feed a public that wants ‘The cool pup of the moment’ is a good practice. Too many dogs are discarded and then destroyed in this country everyday.

It is and always has been the buyers choice, the words “Let the Buyer Beware” has so much meaning.


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## Ninja

I said it before and I'll say it again, I was not questioning stephie at all which I made clear. And it is a public forum so like Robbie said, we have the right to speak out and I was just stating an opinion of mine that I thought was very weird. If you go back and read my thread I mentioned specifics who joined in May. Stephie's been here since April. 

I don't want anyone to misinterpret anything as I have no problems with new members because I myself was one not too long ago and was very much welcomed. It was just two people I thought something was odd about so I mentioned it. What is the problem with that? If I'm proved wrong then great...

Stephie- No problem


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## The Laughing Magpie

Nan, I just read your post and I think that is a lovely idea.


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## FancyNancy

I will not be discussing this further, but Ninja you questioned the legitimacy of members whom you knew nothing about. You pointed a finger without knowing the facts. No one needs to "prove you wrong" - anyone can join this forum without having to prove anything to anyone. And while it is true that everyone can speak their mind and voice their opinion, making unfounded negative accusations for no reason other than idle gossip strikes me as not in the spirit of this forum (at least that is what I hope).


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## Pattie

My LAST comments are that I have not said anything "mean spirited" to anyone on this forum let alone my earlier comments in this thread to Jeff; and Jeff needs to spend the money (as little as it is), to file his health test results on the OFFA website so that all may see them. Period.


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## The Laughing Magpie

This thread turned nasty when Jeff threatened legal to censor a members voice. Maybe we need a reminder the first amendment gives all of us the right to speak without censorship.

Nancy, I personally did not find Lumi's statement about the two members who joined and only posted here to be mean spirited. Yes she does not know them and neither do most of us, where she did wonder out loud about their legitmancy, it did not strike me as an accusation. I find your criticism of her mean.

It also might be noted that we do not allow puppy sales on the forum, Jeff's vet has now endorsed Jeffs business.


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## jeffshavanese

really Magpie? but these were posted and are okay?
take a look at the website for T-Wags in Florida. Even if you don't use Tim{we did and our Cooper is awesome} his site has sooo much info on what to look for. Good Luck
__________________
Donna & Brian
Cooper 

L4T, check out El Divo Havanese, they are in NY I think. I spoke with Anthony once and he was very nice. I think he does all the health testing and had puppies recently. His pups are $ 2000
__________________
Zury

know NY think Upstate is another country but Linda Brown ( Ashlynn's Havanese) is an experienced breeder and does all the testing. SHe is in La Fayette NY about 4;5 hours from the city. SHe occassionally ships under the right circumstances. She does all the testing. I got my 5 year old male from her and he has the best temperment. Linda's number is 315-455-6285 My doctor has 3 havanese , all from Linda, and he is also happy.

Sheri D
Syracuse NY
Some of the breeders I found and exchanged emails with are:

El Divo Havanese His Pucci had puppies recently. He is in NY and his puppies are $ 2000

De Vita Havanese . She is in CT and her puppies are $ 2000. Her dogs are Health Tested

Mt. Breeze Havanese. She is in PA and her dogs are also health tested. I believe her puppies are $ 1500

Avonlea Havanese. I think she is also in PA and per puppies are $ 1500. 

I found this ones recently. Happy Havs Farm. She has beautiful dogs!

what is YOUR agenda and why are you so angry , what is your vested interest ?
You even attacked my veterinarians factual statements ?
what makes a person so hateful?
we are all just wondering why >you lurk on here , with no name


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## coopersmommy

*People - What is your agenda??*

I was fortunate enough to find Jeff via the internet a little over two years ago after I had a horrible experience with an animal "salesperson" that tried to sell me not one, but two havanese that were sick. When I spoke to Jeff for the first time, he wasn't a sleezy salesman, but to the contrary, someone who understood what we had been through with trying to get a healthy havanese and spoke to me for over an hour and made me feel so comfortable that I had found the right place to go to get our darling Cooper. From the moment that Jeff placed us on the waiting list, we were in constant contact until the birth of our puppy. Once the puppy was old enough, we were welcomed into Jeff's home every Saturday morning to visit and bond with our puppy. It was the most amazing experience. During this time Jeff would answer questions, provide information and show us how loving he was with our puppies. In between visits I would call and email Jeff to hear about my little puppy. Cooper has been the most welcome addition to our home and honestly, this wonderful joy would not have been possible without Jeff. Not only is Jeff supportive during the initial process, two plus years later, we are still constantly in touch with questions and Jeff often emails to check on Cooper's progress. As far as Jeff's vet making a testimony about him as a breeder, I take offense to that, as this is also Cooper's vet. There is not a more caring, compassionate vet in the business. Not to mention being state-of-the art with every current procedure. All I can say is if someone here has a bone to pick with Jeff, it's probably because you didn't get your Havanese from him, because if you did, you would be the happiest person in the world. Case closed!!!


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## CacheHavs

I think we have all heard enough and we really need to get back on track away from all this negativity. so this thread is now closed!!


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