# going backwards



## franny (Apr 24, 2011)

I need help desperately and hoping this group can help. I have always had goldens and this is my first Havanese, Teddy. Teddy has been doing okay house training, going from 10:30 to 6:30 for the past two months and the past week has been going while in his crate sometime in the evening or possibly early morning. I wake up every morning to a mess. This morning I heard him crying at 4am and took him out, peed but no poop. My husband took him out again at 6:30 and when I finally got up at 8 poop all over where he sleeps. I work full time as well as my husband and we are totally exhausted. It is enough that he gets up between 5:30 and 6 but now waking up to a mess on top of it is making me stressed to the max. He is 7 months old and going backwards. I work from home 4 days a week and try to walk him every 3 hours. The other issue is once I am out of his sight all he does is yap. He cries whenever I am not with him. I love him but I am at my wits end. How long should he be going between walks and how do I stop him from pooping where he sleeps. I never had a small dog and know house training was difficult but this is beyond anything I expected. I thought by now he could go from 10:30 to at least 6:30 or 7 and certainly not make where he sleeps. All I think about is how many hours is it and should I walk him. I have walked him in snow storms, torrential rains and blizzards so I could train him and know I feel like a failure. Sorry to write so much but really desperate, and exhausted. Anyone with advice. Oh last night tried to keep him in the crate in our room thinking if he saw us and also to hear him and all he did was yap to come out of crate so took him back to kitchen where he went to sleep. Will he ever sleep through the night, I am too old for a newborn. Thanks for anyone who can help.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

You say he's been with you for two months and this behavior is new? Have you changed his food or the times that you feed him? Has he had any shots recently? Is there any change you can account for that might contribute to this?

Have you ever tried to put his crate on your nightstand, right next to you, so he can see you when he goes to sleep. If he wakes, all you have to do is stick a finger or two in the crate and tell him shhh, and go to sleep. It might make night time easier.

If there's no change in his routine or food intake, I'd start from scratch with his potty training. I'm sure you'll get some excellent advice from the experts here. I can feel your misery. Milo was very hard to potty train, partially to circumstances beyond either or our control, partially because I got him when he was 5 1/2 months old. I can only tell you it does eventually get better, but there were days (many), when I wanted to slap a stamp on his rear end and mail him back to his breeder . . . or anyone else who would have taken him.


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## franny (Apr 24, 2011)

*backwards*

I have had him since 8 weeks old. No changes in feeding or anything else. It is the past week but he did get neutered but this started even before. Tried bedroom last night and didn't stop crying wanted to be on bed with us and my golden. put him in kitchen where he normally sleeps and went to bed but pooped somewhere after 4 am when walked him. so much work and so tired need my sleep desperately. thought of sending back but love him to much but not sure how much longer can keep this up. thanks for trying.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

I feel your pain! Abby used to poop in her crate when we would leave her - separation anxiety. Do you think he might be going through that? We started putting a t-shirt that I had worn with her in the crate and that helped. She eventually quit but it was sheer torture while it was going on. Abby has always been great at night since she sleeps in bed with me! You might want to see if that will settle him down if you have any room left in the bed!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Have you thought about trying a different food or feeding him later? If you decide to try having him sleep in your room again, you may want to put him up at eye level. We used to put ours up on top of a card table next to the bed when they were puppies. That way, they were at eye level and could see us and feel like they were with us. I wish I had more advice for you.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

I am certainly no expert, but I can hear the desperation in your post. I really think that it is separation anxiety. These dogs love to be with people. I notice that Lizzie poops when she is nervous. She never pooped in her crate (except the first night). She did get to the point where she cried all night and I was so tired and frustrated that I brought her to bed with us and problem solved.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Lizzie'sMom said:


> I am certainly no expert, but I can hear the desperation in your post. I really think that it is separation anxiety. These dogs love to be with people. I notice that Lizzie poops when she is nervous. She never pooped in her crate (except the first night). She did get to the point where she cried all night and I was so tired and frustrated that I brought her to bed with us and problem solved.


 Sounds like that to me too. Both my Havanese sleep with me. They woke up in the middle of the night tell about 4mo now I wake up to a lick on the face about 7am every morning. I took maddie out of the crate the first time she messed in their I didn't want her feeling like it is okay to mess in her den. Now I only use the crate while we travel in the car.


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## franny (Apr 24, 2011)

*Backwards*

I appreciate the suggestions so far but sleeping in our bed at this time is not a good idea. First of all he has peed in our bed numerous times in the past so doing sheets at night is just as bad. Our other issue is we are going away this coming week-end and again at the end of May. I am leaving with lots of regret my dogs with my daughter and her three children and they sleep in her bed so sure she doesn't want Teddy there as well. I have 3 days to correct this and don't know how I am going to leave him in her care when I can't handle it. I am tempted at this point to leave the crate open in a pen and put a wee wee pad in the pen but after all the hard work I have done to try and train him I feel like I will be going totally backwards. Help!!!


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Your idea of the crate in the pen is something that a lot of forum members do. I don't know what threads you could search, though. I would go ahead and do that. I think he might still cry at night. I wish more members would give you ideas. Some threads gets tons of posts, while others don't.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

You could try posting on Havanese Talk. You have to join first. That board seems to be a little slower with postings than this one, though.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

I would probably do the expen with the crate and weepad. Maybe he is crying in the middle of the night because he needs to go out.

As for the agony of going from a big dog to a small dog, I hear you. We have always had border collies/aussies. I know that everyone swears up and down that Havs are brilliant but..... Nessie had ONE, count them, ONE accident in the house. And that was because she had an urinary infection. 

Jack is 9 months. I don't trust him not to poop in the house. sigh.... I just don't get it. 

sigh.... it will get better. I think that Jack had a mild setback at that age. It is the fearful stage, I think. They realize that they aren't invincible. Seven months is when Jack started barking at his reflection again. Oh joy. He has stopped it now.

(((hugs))) and good luck.


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## inlovewithhav (Feb 18, 2011)

Franny I would like to say I am very sorry about the potty problems you are having. My suggestion would be to start at the beginning with potty training and try to be vigilant. Also if pooing is an issue try feeding him earlier and limiting his water intake after a certain time. My pup also sleeps in the kitchen and the few times I have tried to bring him in the room with me he has turned into a chewing machine so we aren't there yet either. Please know that I am no expert though and that these are just suggestions that may help.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

All dogs are not the same and all dogs within the same breed have differences. Hav's and may small dogs are not like Goldens, if someone let you believe this, I am sorry. Hav's are a high maitenance breed, they need lots of attention. It is hard to house train many small breed dogs, because they have small bladders. I think one of the problems here is you went in to this with the best of intentions, and things have not progressed as you planned. This does not mean you have failed, but at this point in time you need to make many adjustments, we are the humans, dogs can not reason, can not compromise, or suggest strateges. There are no quick fixes for a dog that is not house trained, you need to go back to the start and it will take a large amount of your time or who evers to house train you pup. If you are not willing or do not have the time (and you could just have too much on your plate) you need to think about what will be best for you and you pup. I know this sounds harsh, but I am not being the bad guy here, I just want you to do a reality check, decide what is best for you, what you can you realistically do, what your willing to do, and what is best for your pup. Please go back and read your posts objectively, then decide what you are able to do, to change things.


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Hello. I know how you feel because many of us have been through hard times with our puppies. You need to take a deep breath and relax. This is not an easy or quick fix and it takes time and a big effort. I think Teddy may be picking up on your anxiety as these puppies are very sensitive. Sometimes it is difficult to train the puppy to just go outside. I think that giving the puppy an indoor option is a good idea. But he needs to learn what you want from him. In order to achieve that you need to be watching him all the time so when he goes in the pee pad or any method you choose, you praise him, make a party for him and when he goes in the wrong place you correct him moving him to the right place really quick. I don't see any problem if you keep walking him or taking him out to the place where you want him to go maybe every 2 hours. During the night you can consider having another expen beside your bed so he feels that he is not alone and you can watch him closely and see what's going on with him during the night.
As the time goes by, almost sure he will prefer to only go outside, as you want too. It is good that you work from home 4 days so you can make adjustments and watch him closely. It is not easy and it requires all your attention for a while. Good luck.


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## ls-indy (Apr 10, 2008)

I'd try feeding his dinner earlier, and picking up his food and water a couple of hours before bedtime.... Then keep him outside until he goes just before bedtime. We don't usually offer treats for going "potty" - but we do bribe them when we ask them to go on command.....

Daisy and Beau sleep in their crates in our bedroom. Havies are VERY social and want to be in the same room with us.... I used to work from home - and they would sleep on the floor in the office with me..... or chew on a toy etc.

We also keep a dog litter box in the sunroom for them to use in emergencies: http://www.rascaldoglitterbox.com/

It is only used about once every one or two MONTHS - but it gives them an acceptable alternative when necessary.....


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

It is more difficult to house train a smaller dog and they do often have a regression in their training. I'm not sure why that is, but there are tons of posts about it here. You really do need to go back to basics. It sounds like Teddy also suffers from separation anxiety, which compounds the problem. He really should be able to go 8 hours at night. If he's pooping in his crate now but was pretty reliable for 8 hours previously, have you taken him to the vet to rule out any physical issues? When he messes at night is it a "clean" mess or more like diarrhea? If it is more messy, it could be related to stress. 
He does feel your stress, so try very hard to be as calm as you can when dealing with him. Don't forget that at 7 months, he's still a baby. Try the ex-pen with the potty pad. If that works for you, you can at least get some sleep and relieve your stress. In time, you can transition him to total outdoor pottying.


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## HavAPuppy1 (Oct 24, 2010)

Our pup Amelia is 7 months as well. I don't know if any of this will help, hopefully it will. What we do with her: during the day while we are at work she is in her exercise pen in the kitchen with her pee pad and her crate. She also has a pillow bed, a bowl of water and a toy. She consistently goes to the bathroom on the pad. When we get home we give her the run of the apartment and have the pee pad out for her to go on. At night we pick up the water around 8 o'clock and then at like 9:30-10:00 we bring her crate into the bedroom. She sleeps in her crate next to my side of the bed. During the night if she needs to pee she will whine to wake me up. When we got her at 8 weeks she was waking me up like 5 times a night atleast. Now she usually sleeps til the morning, or will wake me in the early morning to use the pee pad. At 8 weeks old she would whine in her crate and we just had to ignore her. It was painful. I found that if I made my breathing louder she would think I was sleeping and give up and go to bed. Sometimes she still gets a little whiney and I just breath loud 3 times and she lays down.


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## DiegoCF_Boston (Apr 12, 2011)

Maybe his crate is too big? When we bought Diego, we really weren't ready (supply-wise) for a puppy so we borrowed a crate from a friend and used that for about the first month. The thing was a lot bigger than what a Hav should be in, so even though he got used to it and slept soundly at night (most of the time), he would still go #1 and #2 on the towels we put in it. There would just be plenty of room where he could sleep without being in his own filth. We have since bought him a new, crate thats more his size (it was still a little too big but luckily, it came with a divider piece so we set it up so there's room for his new bed in there....it was also the one where you can see through on every angle like # sides). Since we put him in there, with his new fluffy bed, he sleeps soundly through the night and when we wake up in the morning, there's no mess! No #1's or #2's! And he's been that way since mid April. So it could be that even though he's older and bigger than Diego, he could still feel that his crate is too big.

Also, sometimes, I crate Diego while I'm home for about a half hour to an hour and he's ok with it...except when I leave the room and Olive (our bulldog) follows me. When he's by himself, he whines and whimpers, but when either Olive or I go back in the room, he quiets down (it really is INSANE how much he and Olive love each other...)...so I would suggest bringing his crate in the bedroom and get him used to sleeping in the same room as you...he'll probably be insane for the first couple of nights, but he'll get used to it...they are called Velcro Dogs for a reason! 

Please keep us updated on what's going on!! Maybe with more progression updates, we'll be able to come up with more ideas that may help you out!! GOOD LUCK FRANNY!!!


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## DiegoCF_Boston (Apr 12, 2011)

*BTW*



DiegoCF_Boston said:


> Maybe his crate is too big? When we bought Diego, we really weren't ready (supply-wise) for a puppy so we borrowed a crate from a friend and used that for about the first month. The thing was a lot bigger than what a Hav should be in, so even though he got used to it and slept soundly at night (most of the time), he would still go #1 and #2 on the towels we put in it. There would just be plenty of room where he could sleep without being in his own filth. We have since bought him a new, crate thats more his size (it was still a little too big but luckily, it came with a divider piece so we set it up so there's room for his new bed in there....it was also the one where you can see through on every angle like # sides). Since we put him in there, with his new fluffy bed, he sleeps soundly through the night and when we wake up in the morning, there's no mess! No #1's or #2's! And he's been that way since mid April. So it could be that even though he's older and bigger than Diego, he could still feel that his crate is too big.
> 
> Also, sometimes, I crate Diego while I'm home for about a half hour to an hour and he's ok with it...except when I leave the room and Olive (our bulldog) follows me. When he's by himself, he whines and whimpers, but when either Olive or I go back in the room, he quiets down (it really is INSANE how much he and Olive love each other...)...so I would suggest bringing his crate in the bedroom and get him used to sleeping in the same room as you...he'll probably be insane for the first couple of nights, but he'll get used to it...they are called Velcro Dogs for a reason!
> 
> Please keep us updated on what's going on!! Maybe with more progression updates, we'll be able to come up with more ideas that may help you out!! GOOD LUCK FRANNY!!!


Oh, BTW, Diego did have one accident in his new crate...before we bought him his bed (it's a square-ish one with fluffy sides...it looks very comfortable and cuddly and I'm not gonna lie...I'm kinda jealous...), he used the towels again, because that's what he was used to...but the end of the towels fit perfectly under the divider in the crate...so when we got home, we went to take Diego out and he had pooped...and pushed the part of the towels with the poop on it underneath the divider and into the part of the crate he couldn't get in to!! Smart little devil!!! So when we got the new bed, we made sure it covered that little crack...and it's been accident free!


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Hi, Franny:

How is Teddy doing besides the nail clipping problems? My two Havs have very different temperaments.

Buffy will try to bite me when she gets tired of my grooming efforts, and we have at times, used a soft muzzle on her so I don't get bitten and can finish grinding her nails or combing out some mats. My DH needs to help with nails because I cannot manage it by myself, and it needs to be done!

Buster lets me do anything to him.

I just re-read yous posts, above, about house training and [possible] Separation Anxiety and was wondering if Teddy is doing better now and what worked for you?


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## franny (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks for responding, soft muzzle may have to do since he needs brushing and his nails and giving my husband and I the toughest time. It wasn't good before but since he was groomed it is 10x worse. As for the other issue I called my kindergarden instructor and she told me it was a scheduling issue. I was trying to feed him later so he would sleep a little later. When I went back to the original schedule it totally stopped, amazing what a little change could do. Now if he will let me clip his nails and brush him we are good to go. This is my first time with a little dog, goldens before and one still with us. They make me laugh everyday except for this. My golden lets me do anything to her she is so good. Then I have this squirt who goes to bite me. Hopefully, I will resolve it and I love this forum when I have the time to go on it. Thanks again.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

That is amazing! The teacher sounds as if she really knows her stuff.

Do you have any pictures of your two pooches?


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