# smallest in the litter



## new2havs

I went to meet the litter we are interested in yesterday - 5 puppies. They all seemed to be active, friendly, curious. One of the 5 is smaller than the others - I would say he is about 2/3 the size of his siblings. This was the one we liked the best. Should I be concerned that he is smaller? His mother is 15 pounds and his father is 10 pounds, if that matters. The breeder seems to think he would be about 8 - 10 pounds when fully grown, certainly no bigger than his father.

Thanks!


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## krandall

new2havs said:


> I went to meet the litter we are interested in yesterday - 5 puppies. They all seemed to be active, friendly, curious. One of the 5 is smaller than the others - I would say he is about 2/3 the size of his siblings. This was the one we liked the best. Should I be concerned that he is smaller? His mother is 15 pounds and his father is 10 pounds, if that matters. The breeder seems to think he would be about 8 - 10 pounds when fully grown, certainly no bigger than his father.
> 
> Thanks!


If he is significantly smaller than his siblings (not just a bit smaller) I would want to do a liver function panel and have his heart checked thoroughly before committing to him. He MIGHT just be a healthy small puppy. But sometimes there are health reasons for one puppy to be significantly smaller. Honestly, if you have a choice, I'd chose one of the others.


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## new2havs

Thank you. That gives me something to think about. I am going to call the vet tomorrow and see what she advises. We have a refundable deposit on the puppy right now. He was sweet but I don't need a decade (or more) of heartache. I'm just not sure what a significant difference is because I only have the siblings to compare him to. They are 4 weeks old.

thank you for your advice!!


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## Marni

Since I was a child and my Dad bred beagles to hunt rabbits, I have been drawn to the runt of the litter. Resist that! Karen is right.


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## new2havs

thank you for your replies! I contacted the breeder and told her my concerns. She is bringing them this week to the vet and will share their "official" weights with me as well as a report from the vet. She assured me that I can have my deposit back at any time. I keep looking at the video I took and he is smaller, but maybe not as much smaller as I said in my original post. Anyway, I'll hear back this week and get to see the vet report and I'll take it from there, once I can see just how much smaller he is than the others. Thanks again!!


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## Barbara Levy

new2havs said:


> thank you for your replies! I contacted the breeder and told her my concerns. She is bringing them this week to the vet and will share their "official" weights with me as well as a report from the vet. She assured me that I can have my deposit back at any time. I keep looking at the video I took and he is smaller, but maybe not as much smaller as I said in my original post. Anyway, I'll hear back this week and get to see the vet report and I'll take it from there, once I can see just how much smaller he is than the others. Thanks again!!


See how close their weights are now. Loki was the smallest at birth but by the time he came home at 10 weeks there were 2 puppies smaller. The breeder thought he would 9-10 lbs but he is 13 lbs and lean at 15 months.


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## new2havs

Yes,I want to see exactly how much smaller he is than the others. the breeder is going to share that with me this week. He did not behave any differently than his siblings, he was moving around with them, he jumped on one of them who was trying to sleep. they were all hounding the mama dog and he was right in the middle of that too. There was nothing about him that made me think he was not developing the same ways as his siblings, except that he was smaller. Thank you for sharing your story of Loki!!


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## krandall

new2havs said:


> Yes,I want to see exactly how much smaller he is than the others. the breeder is going to share that with me this week. He did not behave any differently than his siblings, he was moving around with them, he jumped on one of them who was trying to sleep. they were all hounding the mama dog and he was right in the middle of that too. There was nothing about him that made me think he was not developing the same ways as his siblings, except that he was smaller. Thank you for sharing your story of Loki!!


If he's a "healthy small" puppy, there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking the smallest. You just want to make SURE that he isn't small because there is something wrong with him. It also sounds like your breeder is a good one, willing to work with you on this. That is so important in a breeder.

BTW, there was a significantly smaller puppy in Panda's litter too. I wasn't interested in that puppy at any point, but the litter is now 20 months, his family loves him to pieces, and he's a perfectly healthy but smaller dog. He's a little odd looking, and was from birth. But he has no health problems at all and is a lovely pet dog!


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## Cmward

I took the smallest dog in the litter, it turned out just fine. As has been mentioned he was checked, liver function panel, cardiac check he was fine just a little smaller than the rest. That was actually the reason we were bumped up on the breeder's waiting list, she wanted him in a home with no children. She told me he might only be 7-8 pounds he wound up at a lean 13.


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## Olliepup

Olive was also the smallest of her litter. I didnt really think to get her liver tested but the vet said she looked healthy during her initial puppy checkup. Shes now about 7.5 lbs at 1.5 years old and is a healthy sweet dog.


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## ShamaMama

Shama is the runt of a runt. She was about half the size of her brother. She weighed 1.9 pounds when we first took her to the vet at 9 and a half weeks. Now she weighs 8.5 pounds and loves to run agility! Below is a photo of her and her brother when she was five and a half weeks old. Then one of her the day we brought her home. Then one taken three weeks ago. Probably best to avoid runts, but we adore ours!


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## new2havs

Thank you all for your replies. The litter was taken to their vet today and our small pup weighed 2.2 pounds - he's exactly 5 weeks old. The next smallest was 2.4 pounds, then 2.6. The largest was a little over 3 pounds. The difference from 2.2 to 2.4 didn't seem that bad? Their vet gave them all a positive report, hearts sounded good, no parasites, no hernias. I feel a little better - if he gets to be at least 2.5 pounds by the time he's 8 weeks, wouldn't that mean he'd be about a 9 or 10 pound adult? Using that "four fold" calculation?


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## Chi-Chi's Mom

I bought home a 2.5 pound pup at 8 weeks old. Her last weight check was 11.75 pounds at 17 months.


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## new2havs

thank you! that makes me feel better! I should hope he could put on 1/4 of a pound in 3 weeks?


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## Cmward

My Apollo weighed exactly 2.2 lbs at his 8 week check up. I posted about him earlier, he topped out at a healthy 13#'s his breeder estimated he'd be maybe 8 or 9.


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## Molly120213

Molly was 3.4 lbs. at 10 1/2 weeks old. At one year she was about 6 lbs. She did have an improvement in appetite and at three years old she weighs about eight lbs. She was the only girl in a litter of seven and was definitely one of the smaller ones. I spent a lot of time worrying that she had some health issue causing her to be so small but she has never had any issues come up so far. She is the perfect size for me!


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## krandall

new2havs said:


> Thank you all for your replies. The litter was taken to their vet today and our small pup weighed 2.2 pounds - he's exactly 5 weeks old. The next smallest was 2.4 pounds, then 2.6. The largest was a little over 3 pounds. The difference from 2.2 to 2.4 didn't seem that bad? Their vet gave them all a positive report, hearts sounded good, no parasites, no hernias. I feel a little better - if he gets to be at least 2.5 pounds by the time he's 8 weeks, wouldn't that mean he'd be about a 9 or 10 pound adult? Using that "four fold" calculation?


That's not exceptionally small for a Havanese puppy at 5 weeks. I don't think Pixel was much over 3 lbs when I brought her home at 9 weeks. I think, as long as the vet says their fine, that wouldn't keep me from choosing the puppy. HOWEVER< don't choose that puppy just BECAUSE he's small. There are far more important reasons to choose a puppy!


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## krandall

new2havs said:


> thank you! that makes me feel better! I should hope he could put on 1/4 of a pound in 3 weeks?


Absolutely! They re growing every day at this point!


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## new2havs

krandall said:


> That's not exceptionally small for a Havanese puppy at 5 weeks. I don't think Pixel was much over 3 lbs when I brought her home at 9 weeks. I think, as long as the vet says their fine, that wouldn't keep me from choosing the puppy. HOWEVER< don't choose that puppy just BECAUSE he's small. There are far more important reasons to choose a puppy!


Thank you! I chose him first from his picture - I thought he was cute. We had already picked our breeder and we were just waiting for the litter - she sent me photos and I picked. When the litter was about 2 weeks old, the breeder told me he was the smallest one. We were able to visit the pups in person when they were 4.5 weeks old and they were all very sweet and they all had deposits at that point, including our boy. I really do feel comfortable with the breeder, I feel like she's kept me in the loop every step of the way. I just got a little worried about him being smaller - I tend to google a lot and I started reading all of these horror stories about runts. I thank you krandall and everyone else who responded to me - I feel comforted by your stories! And this latest weight check also has me thinking that even though he's smallest, it doesn't seem like he's alarmingly small. His adult size doesn't matter much to me as long as he's healthy, and so far it seems that he is. Thank you to all!!


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## Tux's Mom

My story is reversed. Tux was the LARGEST of his litter. At 8 weeks he weighed 3 lbs. He is almost a year and a half now and weighs 8.2 lbs. and is about 10 to 10 1/2" at his shoulder.


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## new2havs

Tux's Mom said:


> My story is reversed. Tux was the LARGEST of his litter. At 8 weeks he weighed 3 lbs. He is almost a year and a half now and weighs 8.2 lbs. and is about 10 to 10 1/2" at his shoulder.


:smile2: he's 8 pounds of pure cute!!!


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## Askavi

Well, at 2.2 lbs at 5 weeks, he's not that small. My Raffy-boy was 2.7 lbs at 8 weeks and at 2 years has hit a consistent 12.2 lbs and lean. He was average size in his litter of *9* puppies.  It is interesting to see how some pups start small and get big and vice-versa.


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## Marni

*Puppies Weight Gain*

My friend Donna's Zoe was 1.8 at nine weeks and is now 3.3 at 12 weeks. Kosmo was 3.3 at nine weeks and is a lean 11 pounds at nearly 8 months.


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## Cmward

Askavi said:


> Well, at 2.2 lbs at 5 weeks, he's not that small. My Raffy-boy was 2.7 lbs at 8 weeks and at 2 years has hit a consistent 12.2 lbs and lean. He was average size in his litter of *9* puppies.  It is interesting to see how some pups start small and get big and vice-versa.


I got the runt of the litter with my Yorkie, mom was 4.5 lbs dad was 4 lbs...My "runt" topped out at 9! He was not at all fat. He also had the thickest coat of any Yorkie I've ever seen, it never lightened in color either. He was a pretty great looking dog, I much preferred his look than the normal Yorkie look. His brother and sister were 4 and 5 pounds with silky coats that silvered.


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## new2havs

what a cutie your dog is, Marni!!!


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## Marni

*She belongs to one of my best friends.*



new2havs said:


> what a cutie your dog is, Marni!!!


But Donna is having behavior issues and works too much, so she may be mine soon. Bless Zoe, she lifts her top lip and exposes teeth and growls. She is usually overly tired, but it happened when my 14 year old granddaughter had her in her bedroom playing with her, and Alison said, "This puppy hates me." People and dog signals don't always mesh. My son in law, (pictured) asked me if Zoe was the last puppy left that nobody wanted.

If you are looking for a cheerful puppy, don't pick based on size and looks. And, if you want something that purrs instead of growls, get a cat.


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## Tux's Mom

Marni said:


> But Donna is having behavior issues and works too much, so she may be mine soon. Bless Zoe, she lifts her top lip and exposes teeth and growls. She is usually overly tired, but it happened when my 14 year old granddaughter had her in her bedroom playing with her, and Alison said, "This puppy hates me." People and dog signals don't always mesh. My son in law, (pictured) asked me if Zoe was the last puppy left that nobody wanted.
> 
> If you are looking for a cheerful puppy, don't pick based on size and looks. And, if you want something that purrs instead of growls, get a cat.


My first guess at the situation, is the 14 year old and may need some education in how to bring the best out in a young dog. Most puppies are by nature fearful, no matter how playful they may appear. It is an ingrained instinct to "live". Something as simple as a new grooming tool to a young puppy may cause a self defensive response, not to mention over aggressive "play". Learning how to motivate and calm an animal is a good precursor to learning how to motivate your future children. I would suggest finding a really good book on raising a puppy for your granddaughter and your friend. My husband said the same thing about Tux because he didn't understand "puppy fear" and why Tux would constantly bite his hands even if my husband wasn't touching him. Once he learned how to deal with it, they are best buds and Tux ADORES my husband.

My good friend has a ten year old Havanese that growls when something doesn't suit him. My friend confessed that when the dog was a puppy, her 11 year old daughter would pick him up by his front paws and dangle him thinking that would be fun for the dog. I can't begin to tell you how my insides churned when I heard that. SOOOOO, I really wanted to respond to this so that you could put both your granddaughter and your friend on the right track. It takes patience and understanding and calmness. Taking a dog from a hyper emotional/playful/bitey/fearful state is not difficult to do once you understand WHY the dog is doing what it is doing. TRUST is critical with all animals. Teaching a pup that it doesn't need to fear is a worthwhile endeavor that will pay off in more ways than one for your granddaughter. There is a better way to "play" and a way to teach trust. Wishing your friend, your granddaughter and Zoe the best! (Dogs were put here on this earth to make us better humans)


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## new2havs

The puppy we chose was friendly and sweet when we met him, otherwise I would have asked for my deposit back if he had a bad personality. His mother was also friendly and sweet. My original question was a health concern. I don't care how big he grows as long as he is healthy. I have had many dogs in my lifetime and I already have a cat.


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## Marni

It was a fear response when Zoe went under the bed and Alison bent down to her eye level and put her hands on her to get her out from under the bed. The growl was a warning, "I am tired and have found a nice den." The little dog also growls when you first pick her up, and certainly when you hold her near your face.

Puppies don't think the way we would like them to if we want a cuddly toy. At least, not often. I told Allison this. Looking directly into their eyes is perceived as threatening, and picking up a puppy (that may instinctively think, "Mom is doing this 'cause mom senses danger and wants a new den location) does not often rub them the right way. Also, seven month old Kosmo wore her out with play, and provided an example of "look at me, play with me" gregariousness to Alison that a new baby couldn't match.

I am getting an education of what adding a second puppy to my household will be like with these family dynamics.

And, if Zoe had growled at her and bared her teeth at the breeders, I am sure Donna WOULD have decided on a different dog. But I think Zoe will win her over. She does the Havanese puppy talk thing, and really is fun to look at.


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## Marni

*Off on a tangent.*



new2havs said:


> The puppy we chose was friendly and sweet when we met him, otherwise I would have asked for my deposit back if he had a bad personality. His mother was also friendly and sweet. My original question was a health concern. I don't care how big he grows as long as he is healthy. I have had many dogs in my lifetime and I already have a cat.


We got a little off topic, as sometimes happens in this forum. I am sure your puppy will offer you many years of happiness.:laugh2:


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