# Aloha, I'm new with a problem



## maya1 (Feb 17, 2011)

My Havanese-Chic was a former show dog I adopted. She is fixed and had three litters with her breeder. She seems very happy with me for one year and is very loving but her breeder told me she was an "escape artist" Today seh ran away when my guests were putting their suitcases in the car and I became distracted. For twenty minutes I thought I'd never see her again as we scoured the neighborhood. I was frantic. My leaving guests saw her around the corner and she cowered submissive and let me pick her up. Is this normal behavior for a Havie and how do I keep her in. She loves to go on walks and is very responsive and ok, manipulative to get what she wants. She used to be crated a lot when she was at the breeder and yet she escaped. I don't want to lose her. She has become my precious baby and I am adopting another girl from the breeder so I am extra afraid of what might happen. Can anyone help me please? Thank you Maya


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

Hi Maya, welcome to forum! Glad u got her back safe! A lot of us here have had some share of scares.. Mimi, our oldest Hav was once returned to us after wandering into the turn lane of a busy road. 

Is this the first time that she has escaped? Crate her or close her in a room. Gates. I'm not sure what its called but I saw this door barrier somewhere that allows you to open the door certain amount & keep pets inside. Invisible fence indoors.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Another thing you might want to work on, though it's not a quick fix, is to take some obedience lessons with her. This will accomplish two things. First, just training together will strengthen the bond between the two of you. Second, with time and repeated practice, you can develop a really reliable recall, so that, if the worst happens and she DOES get out, she will come right back to you on command. Again, this will take time, but I think it is WELL worth the effort!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Jack has shot down the driveway a couple of times. Scariest thing ever. Luckily, the snowbanks contained him. I try to make sure he is on leash before we open the garage doors. 

I know have to work more on Recalls with him. There are times he just looks at me, Pfft!, and walks the other direction.


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## madeleine (Nov 18, 2010)

I second the training and teach her to come to you everytime your call her. Use a treat that she absolutely loves. Training is important with dogs and horses especially as they both can bolt into the path of a car or run off or become tangled up on a lead or in a fence. Meanwhile, when you are expecting someone or need to go out the front door, secure her in her crate or a room. She sounds like the type that could climb a gate if she wanted to. Let us know your progress.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

In general, I read that hanaveze love to do such things. When Roki was around 10 months old he foud out that staircase in my building (I live in appartement) is great place to run away (at least it is safe). Whenever someone rang at the door, he saw that as opportunity to run, run , run... I chaesd him with elevator and it was even more fun to him. Little by little he stopped doing that. Now, when we come from walks, we don't take elevator but walk upstairs. It is good excersise (5th floor) but also perfect for training Roki. He learend to stop when I want to unhook him from leash and to stop when I want to tie him. Sometimes he escapese to 6th floor but that is not a problem because his favourite friend (bichon frisee girl) lives there.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I had the ultimate escape artist in Milo and have shared many a harrowing moment with him in the past. No matter what I did, he managed to find a way out of my (6 ft) fenced in yard, only to roam the neighborhood in search of adventure. I can't tell you how many late night excursions I had in search of my boy, praying that he was okay.

The worst time was when I searched till about 2:30 a.m., finally giving up and going home to the others. It was a nightmare and in my case only stopped after I finally put a second four foot fence up at the back of the house, inhibiting his ability to dig under two fences.

I think the training is a good idea. People also suggested to me getting one of thos electronic fences, though I resisted that. I feel for you. There is no more helpless feeling than knowing your dog is out there and in possible danger.

My prayers are with you for a resolution to this problem.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Oh, Geri, I wondered if you would post when I saw what this thread was about. I can still recall the terror that came through your post when Milo got away and you searched and searched and could not find him. 

I agree with what the others have written about the training and working on a reliable recall. We have been doing some training and I can see such a difference in Augie's behavior - it is almost like he understands what I am saying; like Karen mentioned, it has built a stronger bond between the two of us. I also agree with crating (or closing in a room) your Hav if you are going to be distracted with guests and doors may get left open. 

WELCOME to the forum, Maya and Chic! Also, we love pictures!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

That is scary  I'm so glad it ended well.

I am not sure what I would do if I had an escape artist, I suppose I'd entertain the thought of an invisible fence (even though I think they are kinda cruel) idk..it'd be just as cruel to be ran over or lost in the woods hungry 
Tough one

Kara


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Geri, I too remember those posts!!!! I'm with the others about training even one class can make a big difference. This morning my DH was putting all his boxes in the car and didn't shut the door, he heard "woo woo woo" came around the corner and there was Yogi sitting in the doorway asking permission to come out. I have trained them to wait and sit at the door every time I open it, seem to have worked. In training they really get across how many many times you need to do an exercise.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

Yogi loves to escape! Chris likes to let her outside off leash whenever possible. Well with all the snow this winter, she has been contained more then usual, sticking to her shoveled runs. Monday evening, he let her out to potty. I had told him that she wasn't sticking to her runs anymore, what with all the melting...but her knows better them me..."She's not gonna go anywhere." Well I'm sitting on the couch, listening to him standing at the door calling her and calling her. Finally I get up, slam my snow boots onto my feet and out the door I go. She is NO WHERE to be found! I got stomping up the hillside, trying to coax her to come to me. Now the snow is crunchy enough on top for her to walk across, but I go through the crust and the snow is really quite deep, so it is a big struggle trudging through this crap up hill with no coat, falling down and FREAKING out, trying not to start bawling, cause I can't see her, can't hear her! Finally she shows up along side the woods back behind the neighbors. I call and go after her, but she has no intention of coming back home just yet! She's having a blast like she hasn't had since last summer! Chris came around from the opposite direction, and when she ran from Mom, (who was freaking out) she went to Daddy, (who is much calmer) who then took her home. When I got home, soaked from falling in the snow, exhausted from trudging thru snow, and real angry, Daddy got a tongue lashing like non-other! We definately need a plan, now that there's two! Chris is researching the invisible fence right now. Yogi has a fantastic recall...as long as we're in the house. If we're outside, she simply gives us the finger and goes on her way!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

dodrop82 said:


> Yogi loves to escape! Chris likes to let her outside off leash whenever possible. Well with all the snow this winter, she has been contained more then usual, sticking to her shoveled runs. Monday evening, he let her out to potty. I had told him that she wasn't sticking to her runs anymore, what with all the melting...but her knows better them me..."She's not gonna go anywhere." Well I'm sitting on the couch, listening to him standing at the door calling her and calling her. Finally I get up, slam my snow boots onto my feet and out the door I go. She is NO WHERE to be found! I got stomping up the hillside, trying to coax her to come to me. Now the snow is crunchy enough on top for her to walk across, but I go through the crust and the snow is really quite deep, so it is a big struggle trudging through this crap up hill with no coat, falling down and FREAKING out, trying not to start bawling, cause I can't see her, can't hear her! Finally she shows up along side the woods back behind the neighbors. I call and go after her, but she has no intention of coming back home just yet! She's having a blast like she hasn't had since last summer! Chris came around from the opposite direction, and when she ran from Mom, (who was freaking out) she went to Daddy, (who is much calmer) who then took her home. When I got home, soaked from falling in the snow, exhausted from trudging thru snow, and real angry, Daddy got a tongue lashing like non-other! We definately need a plan, now that there's two! Chris is researching the invisible fence right now. Yogi has a fantastic recall...as long as we're in the house. If we're outside, *she simply gives us the finger and goes on her way!*


Emphasis, mine. I know I shouldn't be laughing because nobody knows better than I just how scary they can be but the visual you set up just had me ROFLMAO!


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

I know, Geri! I can laugh now...that nite I was in a big rage! That man better learn!


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## holt24 (Jan 21, 2011)

This may be why we have Vana!She may have run then gotten lost.I just wonder why no one put out missing reports? I heard of a dog amber alert. Drake can go out and doesn't run off I count loud if he wanders to far(he is always back by 3) listens better than the kids lol Izzy stays close to Drake.

Vana needs some work!!!! She acts as if she has never been on leash and she doesn't come yet. and why is it always the men that leave the door open? This happened yesterday ad there goes Vana- where she doesn't know. I see her and try not to chase - she seems to think that is a game. She started to step off the curb and I yelled NO she dropped and rolled for me to pick her up. 

sounds like a pretty common thing..


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Jenny, if they see you and hesitate then run AWAY from them and they will usually chase you so you can just head back home! This happened to me once and it worked!

MEN - think they know everything! Just like when we picked Abby up at the airport and DH insisted she was too scared to run away - no need to bother with collar and leash. Well, thirty looong minutes later we had her in the car but the scariest minutes of my life! My mistake was not listening to my better judgement.......lol


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## holt24 (Jan 21, 2011)

good idea!! I am flashing back to when Drake was a pup and that worked, still does if I go to the mailbox and start to run back to the house- he always beats me no matter if I get a head start or not!


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## maya1 (Feb 17, 2011)

Mahalo(thank's ) for all the suggestions.
Chic was a show dog with ribbons etc when I adopted her. Does that mean I still have to obedience train her? I think she walks all over me. She lives inside and always was crated (the breeder crated her a lot since she worked and had 9 dog) I keep her inside except for a daily walk. I am so relieved to get her back. I couldn't imagine going to sleep without her in her bed next to my bed and to look at her stuff and not know where she had gone to. I love her so much. Today she is subdued but is still looking at the closed door. I am so glad I found this forum Aloha Maya


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

We have an electric fence. :behindsofa: It has worked beautifully for our Aussies. Jack.... not so much. You have to put flags up to mark where the warning beeping starts. It is billions of flags. After a couple of weeks, you start removing the flags.

Jack was so afraid of the flags, he never got close enough to hear the warning beeps. Another thing I have to work on when spring comes. For now, if Jack yanks the leash out of our hands, we send Nessie to herd him back. :redface:

We can't have a real fence because we have wetlands and aren't allowed to do anything.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Kathie said:


> Jenny, if they see you and hesitate then run AWAY from them and they will usually chase you so you can just head back home! This happened to me once and it worked!
> 
> MEN - think they know everything! Just like when we picked Abby up at the airport and DH insisted she was too scared to run away - no need to bother with collar and leash. Well, thirty looong minutes later we had her in the car but the scariest minutes of my life! My mistake was not listening to my better judgement.......lol


Kathie - I agree with the "MEN - they think...." statement! Without going into the long story, that is why I no longer have one of my cockatiels.....

Yes, running back to the house, away from Augie, and hollering 'let's go get a treat' has brought him back pronto in the past. But I was there to see him start to take off - it wasn't like he had taken off without me seeing him.

Maya, No, you don't HAVE to obedience train her, but it sure makes life a heck of a lot easier when they have some obedience training. I don't think people who show their dogs for conformation train their dogs in obedience as a rule, as far as I know. I shouldn't say for sure, as I don't really know. But, as was stated before, going through the training will strengthen your bond with Chic and they behave better around guests and family too. People have told me that Augie behaves and 'minds' better than their kids. I have found the training classes to be a lot of fun. Augie loves going too and he loves practicing his homework. It also gives him the experience of being around the other dogs. The class members were all commenting after our Rally obedience class last night how much we have all gotten from it. I think it is a win-win for the humans and the dogs both.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

maya1 said:


> Mahalo(thank's ) for all the suggestions.
> Chic was a show dog with ribbons etc when I adopted her. Does that mean I still have to obedience train her? I think she walks all over me. She lives inside and always was crated (the breeder crated her a lot since she worked and had 9 dog) I keep her inside except for a daily walk. I am so relieved to get her back. I couldn't imagine going to sleep without her in her bed next to my bed and to look at her stuff and not know where she had gone to. I love her so much. Today she is subdued but is still looking at the closed door. I am so glad I found this forum Aloha Maya


*Absolutely!!!* Being a show dog doesn't mean she has ANY obedience training. Show training is very specific, and is meant to show dogs off, on a leash, in the ring. That's all.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Karen is so right some are not even house trained. Some show breeders don't do obedience as they say it causes the dog to sit, when it needs to stand. There are some that do. Show dogs have to have a great personality and that sometimes is not what the breed call for. So they need to find that one dog and of course all of the other breed things with it. Many show dogs are kept in a kennel, an example is Shih Tzus some show breeders keep them in oil to keep the coat nice there is no way a dog in oil can be on your house walking around. They train them for show and of course their exceptions.


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## Ninja (Nov 1, 2010)

Wow Geri I had no idea what you gone through. I think for the most part we've all experienced something similar. I no I did a few times!!

Theres a lot of great advice given here. I think you just have to work on the recall. Like they say, theres no quick fix to anything. You just have to be persistant and patient.


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## maya1 (Feb 17, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. Chic Was taught never to bark and she doen't bark at all. She whimpers when she wants something. This makes it hard to find her too. I think an electric fence would freak her out as she is hyper already. I keep her inside and she is trained to go on puppy pads or outside with us on a walk or in the yard supervised. She also doen't sit because show dogs have to one, not bark, and 2 stand. She seems to know she is retired now and wants to be free. Having said that, she is a wonderful girl


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Hehe, Yes show dogs must stand and wee wee pads are common. I had a show male a Shih Tzu who I kept because he was my first and he was trained to go outside as well as wee wee pads but, we did obedience and he had the comand to stand. My Lhasa does not bark, my fault, I trained him not to bark when we lived in the city. When I moved here I have never been able to change. You can, with work change anything and there is a settling in period. The really cool thing about x show dogs and show dogs in general is their temperment and the way they can just go with changes.


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## maya1 (Feb 17, 2011)

Yes, she sees her breeder once in a while and jumps on her to say hello, but less and less. Do you find Havanese to be one person in a household dog. She follows me all around the house but not my bf?


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I don't think they are one person dogs, I do think sometimes they favor the person who is home and gives them more attention. My DH will tell you our dogs favor me more as he claims when I am away they sit looking out the window waiting. The truth is, if he is away in the evening they do the same, just not in the day. My girl gets up on the loveseat where my DH often works and waits for him in the evening, so the other dogs don't take her spot! It is very cute as she falls asleep early and likes to sleep by him.


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## frankiemuniz01 (Feb 19, 2011)

comment removed


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Karen is so right some are not even house trained. Some show breeders don't do obedience as they say it causes the dog to sit, when it needs to stand. There are some that do. Show dogs have to have a great personality and that sometimes is not what the breed call for. So they need to find that one dog and of course all of the other breed things with it. Many show dogs are kept in a kennel, an example is Shih Tzus some show breeders keep them in oil to keep the coat nice there is no way a dog in oil can be on your house walking around. They train them for show and of course their exceptions.


It's a pretty irresponsible breeder that doesn't have housebroken dogs. Likewise, there is a big difference among manners, and any sort of competition - obedience, agility, rally, conformation - and there's no excuse for a dog not to have house manners. If I am holding a treat and asking my dog to stand nicely instead of sit nicely - neither involves jumping all over me like a fool - does that mean my dogs aren't trained? To me, someone whose dogs are not housebroken and/or do not have manners (or, they are not working on these things) has more dogs than they can handle.

Most show dogs are EXTREMELY well socialized - 'bomb proof' - and that's a great thing for every dog. Breed standards all address temperament, and while every dog must be able to be examined by the judge, it's pretty common for a breed standard to call for an aloof or stand-offish dog (just not a Hav!).

I use oil on show coats... they walk around my house. I usually put it in right before bed so most of it is absorbed by the next morning. No locked up and no grease stains. We also went to the dog park today, then spent two hours washing the mud off them.


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## maya1 (Feb 17, 2011)

Thank you for all the info about ex show dogs. Chic my dog had three litters, was a great mom but during her last litter, the breeder told me she bit the hair off of her tail of out stress. Now it grew back black and white instead of all black, so the kids in the hood call her skunk tail. lol But she is trained to go outside or on pads. She never, ever barks which is weird to me- and she is sometimes hyper but in general she is a happy merry dog. The one thing that scares me is her roaming ways. She is a 'escape artist" extrodinare and I am thinking of a GPS device to make sure she doesn't get in trouble. Side note she never won dog shows but they bred her because of her breed standards they tell me are very good. I wouldn't know the dif. Aloha


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Narwyn said:


> It's a pretty irresponsible breeder that doesn't have housebroken dogs. Likewise, there is a big difference among manners, and any sort of competition - obedience, agility, rally, conformation - and there's no excuse for a dog not to have house manners. If I am holding a treat and asking my dog to stand nicely instead of sit nicely - neither involves jumping all over me like a fool - does that mean my dogs aren't trained? To me, someone whose dogs are not housebroken and/or do not have manners (or, they are not working on these things) has more dogs than they can handle.
> 
> Most show dogs are EXTREMELY well socialized - 'bomb proof' - and that's a great thing for every dog. Breed standards all address temperament, and while every dog must be able to be examined by the judge, it's pretty common for a breed standard to call for an aloof or stand-offish dog (just not a Hav!).
> 
> I use oil on show coats... they walk around my house. I usually put it in right before bed so most of it is absorbed by the next morning. No locked up and no grease stains. We also went to the dog park today, then spent two hours washing the mud off them.


Just to be clear, it was me who mentioned training to start with, and I was SPECIFICALLY talking about obedience training. Here's what I said:

Another thing you might want to work on, though it's not a quick fix, is to take some obedience lessons with her. This will accomplish two things. First, just training together will strengthen the bond between the two of you. Second, with time and repeated practice, you can develop a really reliable recall, so that, if the worst happens and she DOES get out, she will come right back to you on command. Again, this will take time, but I think it is WELL worth the effort!"

I wrote this in response to the OP's questions concerning safety measures because the dog was running away when she got out of the house. I know LOTS of pet owners don't bother to put a reliable recall on their dogs, and I'm guessing that's true for many breeders too. As I;m sure you know, putting a reliable recall on a dog takes a LONG time and a LOT of work. My guess is that few breeders who don't also have an interest in formal obedience have the time/interest to work on it to that extent. I think it IS a realistic goal for most pet owners, and can come in VERY handy if the dog gets loose inadvertently.


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## maya1 (Feb 17, 2011)

Thank you Krandall,
I think obedience training would help Chic as she was trained only in show. She maniupulates me because she can. Before she was kept in a crate most of the day and now she is free so I guess it is natural for her to test the limits. I don't want to lose her and I would do anything, and I mean anything to keep her safe. Look at that face. Aloha


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

That IS a pretty cute little face!


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Maya1, You will love obedience, you might not want to do obedience trials,(some find it boring) but you will love the beginning classes. It will bring you and Chic even closer. Hopefully one day she will not have the desire to escape/explore. A reliable recall is the the best thing you can do to keep Chic safe.


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