# Incessive Barking!



## pihler

I have a 9 month old and in the past month she has started barking constantly. We are not sure what it is that she wants. She is usually fed, been outside and we think it may be her way of wanting our attention but it is so annoying. Wondering if anyone has any ideas as to how to correct this. We have tried time outs and putting her back in her crate but it doesn't seem to be helping. 

I have noticed bark collars but wondering if they really work and if they are harmful to the dog?? Appreciate any feedback I get.


----------



## davetgabby

pihler said:


> I have a 9 month old and in the past month she has started barking constantly. We are not sure what it is that she wants. She is usually fed, been outside and we think it may be her way of wanting our attention but it is so annoying. Wondering if anyone has any ideas as to how to correct this. We have tried time outs and putting her back in her crate but it doesn't seem to be helping.
> 
> I have noticed bark collars but wondering if they really work and if they are harmful to the dog?? Appreciate any feedback I get.


Forget the bark collar .. Learned barking, also known as request barking,is the result of our intentionally or unintentionally reinforcing one of our dog's other types of barking. It is usually just one bark ,followed by a pause and then he waits for your reaction. I think you've all seen this. They all do it, or they wouldn't be dogs. If they get no reaction ,they will repeat their plea. This can really escalate into nuisance barking. ANY sort of attention, ie. looking at, talking to, yelling at, is still reinforcing. Most often it is attention seeking. And punishment is certainly not an option because in most cases what we consider as punishment , actually is reinforcing for a dog ,in the way of attention.
Examples include door opening ,begging for food, wanting to play etc, etc, etc. A dog would have to be pretty stupid not to have discovered that this experiment usually works. We are WEAK LOL. How many of you have had company pay attention to your dog when he barks. I think all of us. The best way to keep this from becoming a real problem is simple. Ignore them when you know it's one of these requet type pleas. 
Another type of learned barking can be from previous experiences. A dog may get excited with car rides. He's learned that getting into the car can mean good things or sometimes bad things. This can lead to a learned form of barking that is even more irritating as this is usually an excited form of barking with much more vocalization. Remedies for this are more complicated. 
But I know we've all seen this in our dogs many times and yet we somehow are overpowered by our desire to love and acknowledge our dogs. With their requests for attention we need to realize that too much of anything is not good. Pay attention but watch out ,attending to every cry for our attention can lead to a very demanding and annoying dog. Even the Havanese. Woof


----------



## pihler

*Incessive Barking*

Thanks for the response to my question. As hard as it is, we will try ignoring her when she barks. Today we took her to a doggie park for small dogs and she ran around so much she was totally tuckered out when we got home and there was no barking tonight when there normally is. Maybe that's the secret to get her tired out!


----------



## Adorable_Zeke

pihler said:


> Maybe that's the secret to get her tired out!


I have noticed a huge difference in Zeke's behaviors in the evenings on days he has had less exercise (stubborn, barking, nipping) and days he has had lots of exercise (sweet, self-entertained, listens well). So I'm an advocate of getting him good exercise every day!


----------



## davetgabby

pihler said:


> Thanks for the response to my question. As hard as it is, we will try ignoring her when she barks. Today we took her to a doggie park for small dogs and she ran around so much she was totally tuckered out when we got home and there was no barking tonight when there normally is. Maybe that's the secret to get her tired out!


definitely, boredom causes many problems.


----------



## Lalla

Totally agree with Dave on all counts, especially re anti-barking collars - PLEASE don't even think of going there! Seriously bad news.
I would personally recommend highly a little book by Turid Rugaas (Amazon has it) called "Barking - The sound of a Language", it's SO helpful.


----------



## Pucks104

Dave gave good advice. When you ignore be sure that your body isn't reacting to the barking. You need to truly behave as if the barking isn't happening. Also when you catch your dog being quiet say "name" good pup good quiet and maybe give a small pat and calm bit of attention.


----------



## pihler

We appreciate and have been trying to follow all the advice from members of this group. She still continues on even when we ignore her. Yes, if we get her out running around, she is much more quiet at night time and not barking for our attention. But boy is it annoying to say the least. We will continue to work with her and hopefully solve the problem with no bark collar.


----------



## Lalla

pihler said:


> We appreciate and have been trying to follow all the advice from members of this group. She still continues on even when we ignore her. Yes, if we get her out running around, she is much more quiet at night time and not barking for our attention. But boy is it annoying to say the least. We will continue to work with her and hopefully solve the problem with no bark collar.


I don't know if anyone else would agree with this course of action but I've had success with Tycho's night-time barking by giving him Valerian compound (it's a disgusting-smelling liquid) before bed. It's a herbal remedy, and can, apparently, be hugely successful with some dogs. It certainly seems to calm Tychy and he's been much better on this regime. I was recommended it by a very clever animal behaviourist I've been working with - I'm convinced that the training program is important too, but as an adjunct the valerian does seem to be helping.


----------



## Pucks104

Through most of Leo's first year he went to work with me everyday. At first he would whine and sometimes bark when I left my office. From the first day he came to live with us, we completely ignored any barking at home. I had to get the folks in my office to ignore Leo's vocalizations which was hard to start with. I wanted to reinforce the behavior I preferred so if I left my office even for a few seconds to a few minutes, if Leo made NO sound, then I would praise and treat upon return. If he made even the smallest sound I would ignore him completely, not even look his way, when I returned to my office. I had to maintain this strategy for several months but could see slow progress. It took 6-7 months before Leo could be in my office with no vocalization whether I was in my office or coming and going. I don't take Leo as often anymore because his days are more fun at home since my DH is there until late afternoon and Leo gets to play with his doggie sibs but when he does go to the office he continues to be very quiet. The combination of CONSISTENT ignoring the behavior you want to extinguish and rewarding the behavior you want to encourage will get results. It can take time and you need to look at the time you work on a behavior in light of the dog's lifespan. A few months of truly consistent effort will be rewarded with many years of appropriate behavior. This process isn't quick or easy but it works. A bark collar is in humane especially on such soft natured dogs like Havanese.


----------



## krandall

Lalla said:


> I don't know if anyone else would agree with this course of action but I've had success with Tycho's night-time barking by giving him Valerian compound (it's a disgusting-smelling liquid) before bed. It's a herbal remedy, and can, apparently, be hugely successful with some dogs. It certainly seems to calm Tychy and he's been much better on this regime. I was recommended it by a very clever animal behaviourist I've been working with - I'm convinced that the training program is important too, but as an adjunct the valerian does seem to be helping.


I think that something like that can be a very useful adjunct to training if the barking is anxiety or "hyper alert" related. If it's demand barking, though, it probably won't help much.

For the OP, anxiety or alert barking is usually directed outward. With demand barking, the dog often stands close, looking right at you and barks AT you. (like a spoiled toddler begging for a candy&#8230; which is exactly what's going on! )

Kodi was a TERRIBLE demand barker through adolescence, especially in training classes. He always wanted to be DOING something. The minute I stopped working with him while another dog was working, or even to listen to the instructor for a moment, he would start barking at me. I tried all the things the instructor suggested&#8230; ignoring, turning my back on him, standing on his leash to keep him in a "down" while turning away, taking him out of the ring&#8230; NOTHING worked.

I finally took him out of group classes, and just did half hour private lessons for almost a year, where we could keep him moving and concentrate just on him. When I finally put him back in group lessons, he was fine. I think two things happened. First, We were no longer letting him "practice" the bad behavior, because he just didn't have the opportunity. But I think the most important thing was that he just plain needed to grow up.


----------



## krandall

Pucks104 said:


> Through most of Leo's first year he went to work with me everyday. At first he would whine and sometimes bark when I left my office. From the first day he came to live with us, we completely ignored any barking at home. I had to get the folks in my office to ignore Leo's vocalizations which was hard to start with. I wanted to reinforce the behavior I preferred so if I left my office even for a few seconds to a few minutes, if Leo made NO sound, then I would praise and treat upon return. If he made even the smallest sound I would ignore him completely, not even look his way, when I returned to my office. I had to maintain this strategy for several months but could see slow progress. It took 6-7 months before Leo could be in my office with no vocalization whether I was in my office or coming and going. I don't take Leo as often anymore because his days are more fun at home since my DH is there until late afternoon and Leo gets to play with his doggie sibs but when he does go to the office he continues to be very quiet. The combination of CONSISTENT ignoring the behavior you want to extinguish and rewarding the behavior you want to encourage will get results. It can take time and you need to look at the time you work on a behavior in light of the dog's lifespan. A few months of truly consistent effort will be rewarded with many years of appropriate behavior. This process isn't quick or easy but it works. A bark collar is in humane especially on such soft natured dogs like Havanese.


I hope Pihler can see that this is another example of "there are no quick fixes". This is an annoying habit for a dog to get into, but well worth the effort to get under control. But it does take time.


----------



## davetgabby

pihler said:


> We appreciate and have been trying to follow all the advice from members of this group. She still continues on even when we ignore her. Yes, if we get her out running around, she is much more quiet at night time and not barking for our attention. But boy is it annoying to say the least. We will continue to work with her and hopefully solve the problem with no bark collar.


please do not use a bark collar., these devices cause more problems that they solve. Ignoring works ,you have to give it time. Dogs will go through an extinction burst and ratchet up the barking even more, because it has worked in the past. Like mentioned, you have to totally ignore it , EVERYONE, . If one person pays attention to it, it won't work. Bark, (shock collars) in my opinion are something to be used as a last resort and only by professional trainers. Of the hundreds of trainers that I have come to know , only a handful will use them as they are that dangerous.


----------



## gelbergirl

I'm having a barking problem with Henry. He barks at noises/movements outside the window.
I can't watch tv in the evenings. Just listen to his paced/intense/loud barking. It sounds like he's trying to intimidate whatever nothing there is out there to go away.

So I jut walk and walk him outside. Can I ever watch tv again?


----------



## Pucks104

A couple of things to try with Henry. When you are ready to sit down to watch something on TV, put Henry on his leash and have him lie down at your feet. Initially, you will inevitably have to work more on him lying at your feet than actually watching TV because when he gets up you will need to put him back into the down position. Do this calmly without allowing yourself to become frustrated with him. Eventually he will understand that you are not going to let him get up and he will probably go to sleep. When he does you can wake him and tell him what a very good boy he is and let him go. Repeat each evening or whenever you want to watch TV. If you are CONSISTENT, then Henry will learn to come lay by your feet when you watch TV. 
Additionally, sometimes at our house when there is a lot of activity on the street we just close the blinds rather than worry with barking. Even though our dogs can hear the sounds they seem to bark less when they can't see the commotion on the street.


----------



## BettyJ

I am with Pucks 104. I have a yummy treat say "Quiet" and put my finger in front of my mouth (the typical shush sign) and reward as soon as the barking stops. The treat distracts and she doesn't get it until the barking stops. It takes a while but my Elizabeth, who is a week away from 9 months, is making progress.


----------



## BettyJ

I've also found exercise solves a lot of problems.


----------

