# Frolic says time to breed now.



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I was sitting in my chair with 3 dogs-same chair as avatar-and Frolic stood up with her front paws on the arm of the chair. I thought she was asking to be picked up. I told her I already had enough dogs sitting with me. 

Pam had said a little while earlier that it was day 9 for Frolic. She and some of the other girls are separated in the living room, and the boys have to be separated back in the dog room in times like this.

Frolic bounced her front paws on the arm of my chair. I jokingly asked her if she wanted me to get Posh. I could tell by the look on her face that I had found the right answer, even though I was joking. She doesn't usually breed until day 11, so we thought we had a couple of days.

I opened the baby gate into the office, and Frolic pranced in and waited for me to roll up the persian rug, and carry it out of the room. I came back with Posh, and they courted a bit, and ended up under my Grandfather's rolltop desk, on a comfortable pad that some of the dogs like to rest on when one of us is on the computer.

This picture is with them tied, both lying down comfortably resting. I called Pam to take the picture, while we both tried our hardest not to laugh out loud and embarass them.

This is unusual, but an experienced couple.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Very cute picture. Looks like they had fun! Or should I say, are having fun?
Don't know how long the "process" takes.LOL

They must make very pretty puppies, as they are so beautiful.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Wow I wish that we could get another. I envy you getting the fun of the puppies and then getting more when they go to good homes. My husband would love to just cuddle up with a litter of pups. I raised a litter of walker **** hounds once and we loved the experience. When the owner came to get them, he was surprised at how fat they were. Hunters like to keep their dogs lean and hungry. My boys were little then and boy did they have fun playing with the hound pups.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

luv3havs said:


> Very cute picture. Looks like they had fun! Or should I say, are having fun?
> Don't know how long the "process" takes.LOL
> 
> They must make very pretty puppies, as they are so beautiful.


First tie is sometimes more than a half hour. This is the first time I've ever seen a pair laying down relaxing comfortably. Usually they are standing, and not always comfortable. One of us always stays close, so there is no jumping around, risking injury. This time, they took care themselves.

This is the same breeding that produced Courtney Carter's Watson, who posts here. This will probably be Frolic's last litter. There is enough carry over on the waiting list probably to speak for what this produces if those on the list continue to wait. Sometimes they don't, but it's why we don't require, or want deposits. It always seems to work out best for the pups.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Go Posh! More Starborn pups this winter!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Is it true the more they mate the more pups? Thought I herd that somewhere.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

Cute story and picture...they look so relaxed!


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Awesome picture... Of course, more so because now we know whats going on there.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Aww Love birds with tussled hair!!


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

What a brilliant and interesting picture.Now you can show prospective puppy owners the moment of conception!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

what a sweet couple. I can't wait to see the puppies.


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

Frolic was surely letting you know that if you didn't get the message, she surely did!

Keeper's Mom


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

I should probably just look this up so I don't show my ignorance, but I am going to ask anyway - how long is the gestation period? When can we expect to see photos of the beautiful offspring??!  Tom, I hope they don't find out that you have posted photos of them in a most vulnerable position on the internet for the whole world to see!! ound: You may have some explaining to do! ound:


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Gestation is 63 days.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

They look so comfortable.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Love Shack, day 2. We were going to wait until about the same time tonight as last night, but they both had very strong opinions otherwise.

They definately have the comfort part figured out. Tie today 22 munutes.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

Love Shack!!!ound:


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I wish my mother had lived to see this. One of the worse spanking I ever got was because me and my next door neighbor were trying to pull apart my collie and his cocker spaniel. It was cold and we were waiting on the school bus and we thought that they were frozen together. The whole world saw these two children beside a major highway with these dogs. Of course the bus driver called Mother to tell her. Perry Tyree and Lucile Dodd got spankings that night and my collie dog disappeared. Perry and I never knew until many years later what it was all about. That was in the days of innocence ... when children didn't know were babies or puppies came from and had never heard the word sex. Can't wait to see these puppies. 
Since they are exposed more than once, can't the puppies be born on different days?

And someone please give them a cigarette.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

I feel ignorant asking this, but is it normal for them to mate more than once?

@Lucille-did your parents get rid of the collie and why?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Luciledodd said:


> I wish my mother had lived to see this. One of the worse spanking I ever got was because me and my next door neighbor were trying to pull apart my collie and his cocker spaniel. It was cold and we were waiting on the school bus and we thought that they were frozen together. The whole world saw these two children beside a major highway with these dogs. Of course the bus driver called Mother to tell her. Perry Tyree and Lucile Dodd got spankings that night and my collie dog disappeared. Perry and I never knew until many years later what it was all about. That was in the days of innocence ... when children didn't know were babies or puppies came from and had never heard the word sex. Can't wait to see these puppies.
> Since they are exposed more than once, can't the puppies be born on different days?
> 
> And someone please give them a cigarette.


ound: only you Lucile.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Puppies just in time for Christmas!


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

I'm pretty sure I saw Posh at a show or two several years ago. Hope the pups are beautiful


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## bellapico (Nov 29, 2009)

Luciledodd said:


> I wish my mother had lived to see this. One of the worse spanking I ever got was because me and my next door neighbor were trying to pull apart my collie and his cocker spaniel. It was cold and we were waiting on the school bus and we thought that they were frozen together. The whole world saw these two children beside a major highway with these dogs. Of course the bus driver called Mother to tell her. Perry Tyree and Lucile Dodd got spankings that night and my collie dog disappeared. Perry and I never knew until many years later what it was all about. That was in the days of innocence ... when children didn't know were babies or puppies came from and had never heard the word sex. Can't wait to see these puppies.
> Since they are exposed more than once, can't the puppies be born on different days?
> 
> And someone please give them a cigarette.


Lucile, you are out of control hilarious. So, what happened to the dogs? I agree with you that those two need a cigarette.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

The neighbor got to keep his dog. Mother got rid of mine. She was in heat and also probably going to have pups and that is something a little girl was not to be exposed to. By the way, the kids on the school bus teased us forever about tryng to pull the dogs apart. That was first grade, it was highschool science class before I had an inkling of what we were being teased about.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Lord, Posh is working overtime! 
But look at his face, is like he's saying...Can we do it again? can we? can we?


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

> Love Shack, day 2. We were going to wait until about the same time tonight as last night, but they both had very strong opinions otherwise.
> 
> They definately have the comfort part figured out. Tie today 22 munutes.





> Originally Posted by Luciledodd
> I wish my mother had lived to see this. One of the worse spanking I ever got was because me and my next door neighbor were trying to pull apart my collie and his cocker spaniel. It was cold and we were waiting on the school bus and we thought that they were frozen together. The whole world saw these two children beside a major highway with these dogs.


ound:ound:ound:Holy mary of mischief!!! This thread has turned out to be comic relief!!!!ound:ound: Seriousy, Tom, you should consider a reality show on Animal Planet....has that been done yet? Dog reality?.....ound:

And Lucille...ound: I'm surprised your mom whooped you over that, lol, I guess it was the preface to the birds and bees talk. Any kid would do the same thing! My dad had a razor strap that he used to threaten us with, good gosh. That would never be tolerated in this day and age!

Kara


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

To answer some of the questions: A heat cycle lasts a little over three weeks. The first 9 or 10 days, or until she's ready, she will snap his head off. The middle 5 days or so....:kiss:. After that until the end, see first 9 or 10 days. Once is enough, but you can't tell them that. If one comes for a visit, we might breed her 2 or 3 times over 2 or 3 days, and then they usually leave. When living under the same roof, they have more of a say in it.

Number of times, or on different days, (without getting into canine reproductive science) has nothing to do with number of puppies, and they are always born in the same session.

Zury, they're still tied in both those photos. I've never seen a breeding pair lay down while tied before. Posh doesn't get tired. He's good to go any time, any place.


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## Jan D (Mar 13, 2007)

Love Shack day 2...too funny Tom! More beautiful puppies! Thanks for posting this.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Our little Nellie is on day 15 of her heat cycle,and she and Dizzie are up to it all over the house most of the day,but of course it is getting neither of them anywhere as he has been done.I am feeling exhausted just listening to them!This is Nellie's second cycle she will be done just after Christmas,there was a medical reason as to why she has not been spayed yet.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Tom King said:


> ...Posh doesn't get tired. He's good to go any time, any place.


How typical! ound: He is a lucky boy, he has all the fun right at his fingertips! :biggrin1:

Back in Cuba, where dogs reproduce indiscriminately, you can see dogs tied on the streets and yes, I have never seen a pair lay down either. Usually moving about.


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## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

Luciledodd said:


> The neighbor got to keep his dog. Mother got rid of mine. She was in heat and also probably going to have pups and that is something a little girl was not to be exposed to. By the way, the kids on the school bus teased us forever about tryng to pull the dogs apart. That was first grade, it was highschool science class before I had an inkling of what we were being teased about.


I saw our dog mating as a child, too. I thought the two dogs were "stuck together," and I ran home sobbing to get my aunt to come rescue our Susie. I don't remember her reaction, but I'm sure, knowing her, she cracked up. It was very traumatic for me, though, and I've been careful to tell my kids about what animals do so none of them is terrified like I was.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Here's a full picture of the desk. Posh always thought it was pretty cool.

http://www.starbornhavanese.com/images/puppy_porch_vids_001.jpg

I couldn't find it quickly on the computer, and it was too large to download here. This is a link to a picture on a page of our (long overdue to be updated) website. Sorry for the trouble to have to click on the link. It may or may not come up as a "thumbnail". If it does, you can click on it to get a full sized picture.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Beautiful dogs and awesome desk. Do the silks have longer snouts? Rosie's mustache is always in her mouth.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Ours have always been Havanese. Cubans look for a 3 to 4 ratio between nose and top of skull. We've always looked to the original standard for guidance, regardless of how the Standard gets changed. Short muzzles have come in favor since admission in the Toy Group. Back in '99 when the Standard was being changed for AKC admission, some didn't want to be "so specific" about muzzle length, so "slightly shorter" got put in to suit everybody. Slightly shorter has become half in a lot of cases. We'll always stick with the original style regardless of what is currently in favor in the Toy ring, or with the latest version of the Standard. I'm intending to do a Study of Standards page on our website, but it's on a long to-do list.

The desk belonged to my Grandfather. His records show he bought it in 1899.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Tom, You know Posh is not doing too much work, mostly he's along for the ride.:biggrin1:
The laying down in comfort is over the top.

Lucile, I have one of each Yogi has a shorter snout and Misty has a longer one, both have very different coats which have nothing to do with the size of the snout.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Tom King said:


> ...The desk belonged to my Grandfather. His records show he bought it in 1899.


It looks to be in great condition to be over 100 years old!

I love old things and so DH, even my children love to watch the Antique road shows that DH is so addicted to.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Tom, You know Posh is not doing too much work, mostly he's along for the ride.:biggrin1:
> The laying down in comfort is over the top.
> 
> Lucile, I have one of each Yogi has a shorter snout and Misty has a longer one, both have very different coats which have nothing to do with the size of the snout.


Yes we too have one of each,and they have the same Dad.In Britain the slightly longer snout is favoured over the shorter one,our breeder was a little disappointed when I chose Nellie as she would not be considered as true to type as Dizzie,but there you are she was the one I fell for,and I like the fact that she looks very much the female whilst Dizzie has a more masculine head and face,he is also bigger.She also has a mad coat,easy to brush but always a mess!Where as Dizzie always looks smart with his dead straight hair parted down the middle.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Tom King said:


> Love Shack, day 2. We were going to wait until about the same time tonight as last night, but they both had very strong opinions otherwise.
> 
> They definately have the comfort part figured out. Tie today 22 munutes.


The leg room under desks seems to be very popular when it comes to reproduction!Here's a couple of when our cat had her kittens.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

clare said:


> The leg room under desks seems to be very popular when it comes to reproduction!Here's a couple of when our cat had her kittens.


Boy are those fat kittens! Mom feeds them well!:biggrin1: I love silver tabbies. We don't have many around here... the tabbies are almost invariably the ones with brown in them.


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

Hi, everyone, another newbie here, seeing all this action incented me to stop the lurking and jump into the community. (Along with Dave's recent coaxing....) I will go and properly introduce myself on the Intro thread with pictures. 

But just wanted to say that I'm excited to be on Tom's "waiting list".


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Welcome Leslie!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lsprick said:


> Hi, everyone, another newbie here, seeing all this action incented me to stop the lurking and jump into the community. (Along with Dave's recent coaxing....) I will go and properly introduce myself on the Intro thread with pictures.
> 
> But just wanted to say that I'm excited to be on Tom's "waiting list".


Fantastic! Then you'll have a Kodi... cousin? half sib? Who knows, but if the puppy coms from Pam and Tom, I'm sure s/he will be wonderful! I can't imagine life without my Kodi boy!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome Leslie, glad I lured you in . Hope you enjoy it . These people are great.


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

Tom King said:


> There is enough carry over on the waiting list probably to speak for what this produces if those on the list continue to wait. Sometimes they don't, but it's why we don't require, or want deposits. It always seems to work out best for the pups.


I'm hoping for one of the puppies from this litter!

Laurie


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Here's the results. Four boys and one girl. All healthy, strong, and gaining weight. I don't know where anyone stands on the waiting list. Pam keeps up with that, and I'm positive she hasn't had a chance to even think about it through the past week.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Awww, adorable pups! Frolic looks like a very contented mom!


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

These are the pups concived under the roll-top desk? Gosh I wish I had one but know it is not in the cards. Great litter though.


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## mamacjt (Aug 23, 2011)

Oh, how I wish I lived closer so I could come and visit. I would LOVE another one! And, truly, my Toby needs a playmate!


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

beautiful!!


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Congrats, Grandpa!


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

Very cute, makes me think about possibly breeding Wendy this year and again put her conformation career on hold. Want alot more pictures


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Wow, that seems quick! I didn't look at the original post date. They are so cute. Mom looks very happy. I am getting IWAP syndrome.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Aaawww! so cute. When did they arrive?


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

I was wondering, thought there might be some news real soon! How exciting!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

They are so adorable. The white with black markings is just gorgeous!


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

Adorable!


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## waybrook (Sep 13, 2009)

Frolic looks like she's very pleased with her babies...and they are adorable!


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