# neutering a male



## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

i have always had female dogs before and had them neutered, usually under a year old.
mugsy came to me at 10 months and since then i have not had the opportunity to take any time off from work (i want to stay home for the after surgery part) to get it done.

is there any benefit to not having him neutered?

the vet said he should be neutered to avoid several cancers when he is older. this was news to me.

joe


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Joe, I have always had all my dogs, cats, ferrets, spayed within their first year. My vet has always recommended it. I know that intact males have a tendancy to mark more and I believe some people have reported aggressive behavior. I would think it should be a decision for you to make with your vet.
My vet always said to do, I never asked why but the cancer issue makes sense to me!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

It is true that an unneutered male has a higher chance of getting cancer as their testicles are intact.

Are you going to breed or show him in conformation? If not, I don't see why you wouldn't want to neuter him in the first place.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

i have no plans to show or breed, mugs is my companion only.

i'm not against have him neutered but was exploring the options.
plus, i didn't realize till lately that, for him, it's a complete removal of his testicles and that sorta threw me...it's a male thing i guess.

i guess i need to find some time to book off work.
joe


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

ound: Joe, I am sure it IS a guy thing!!


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2008)

I had to smile when I read 'the guy thing' post. Meanwhile I am sure my DH cringed at the thought. :jaw:


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## Krimmyk (Dec 7, 2006)

mugsy said:


> i have always had female dogs before and had them neutered, usually under a year old.
> mugsy came to me at 10 months and since then i have not had the opportunity to take any time off from work (i want to stay home for the after surgery part) to get it done.
> 
> is there any benefit to not having him neutered?
> ...


Sully was a show dog before we got him at about 9 1/2 months. We decided to just get it done and over with, and do the deed. His parts were laser off and were healed up within days (one was healed in 3 days!). The other he removed his own stitches at 5 days I guess since they were healed. He was playful and yearning to do a RLH the second day. We waited. All and all, I have almost always had male animals, and always desexed them. If they are not showing or breeding why run the risk? And there is a debate on the cancer of the testies, I was not willing to take that risk with our little guy.
You will get lots of advise, but ask yourself, why did you spay your girls? If you do decide. The blood panels and pretests are worth the extra money, in my opinion. Best of luck in you decision.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Joe, if you are really concerned about him not having testicles, they sell prosthetics. They are call Neuticles. Honest, I am not kidding.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

You can also find a veterinarian that will do a vasectomy instead of full castration.


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

irnfit said:


> Joe, if you are really concerned about him not having testicles, they sell prosthetics. They are call Neuticles. Honest, I am not kidding.


For dogs? Now I heard of everything.

I only had girl dogs too until Houston. I didn't even think about it because he is only a pet. I didn't want him marking.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

oh lord, neuticles!
actually i think i saw something on cnn about them.

thanks for the advice, i need to book a chat with my vet too.

joe


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Vasectomy is also done in humans. But I asked my Vet about it and he said they prefer not to do it, because the testosterone problem remains with the testicles, which makes sense.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

That is very true, Maryam.

And if you want some more trivia about Neuticles, they are very hard and do not feel natural at all. If you want _the look_, Neuticles will do that, but if you take your dog to the vet for any physicals, you will definitely get some funny looks from them when they reach back and feel those hard knockers back there. LOL! (My veterinarians and I talk about everything.)


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## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

I'm living with 2 un-altered males. 9 mo. & 14 mo. We went through a period of marking in the house (one after the other), but with a stern "NO" we're doing great. I am going to have Rudy (black Hav) neutered because he does not enjoy showing. He's such a pretty dog, but just doesn't enjoy it, so we'll move on to obiendence. Rocky - he's a wonderful show pup, so I'll keep him intact and continue to have fun at AKC shows.


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## Elaine (Jan 17, 2007)

Joe,
You really don't have to take time off of work, just see if you can get an appt. on Friday. He can't eat Thursday night and you drop him off on the way to work and let them know you want to pick him up after work. You have the weekend with him and you will find that he will heal very quickly, males bounce back within 24 hours. You still need to keep him from to much activity all weekend but by Monday he should be fine. You could also have the surgery on Thursday and take Friday off and do the same thing. I don't like leaving them overnight at the vets as they usually aren't really there all night to watch them. I recommend you keep him in a kennel on the bed or next to it so he doesn't get restless in the middle of the night and fall off. The anesthesia makes them a little groggy some times for the first 24 hours. Good luck and you will find when it is all over with you really won't know why it made a difference to you to have him neutered.


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## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

Hi Joe,
My Rudy was neutered today. He's 14 months. Full castration. URGH! Doesn't that sound awful. It IS awful. I feel so bad for him. However, after deciding that I will not show him any longer, he does "mark" in the house, there's a chance of testicular cancer later on, we made the decision to have it done.

Since I waited this long, my vet also recommended he have his 1 year vaccines while he was asleep and couln't feel it. So, that's done too.

He's resting on the couch. I put a childs Onesie on him (the kind that snap in the crotch) to keep him from licking the incision. He looks a little whimpy, and I'm glad I took the afternoon off to be with him.

He had baked chicken for dinner.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Poor Rudy! I hope he feels better soon, though with baked chicken for dinner, I'm sure he feels and is spoiled rotten.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Hoping Rudy is feeling like himself soon. What a sweet mommy you are Cindy to give him baked chicken for dinner.

Joe, you don't have to be in a rush to neuter him, anytime after a year is fine. The only problem with waiting is that they can establish that "marking" behavior which is difficult to change once started. It is safer for your dog if he is neutered because he won't be tempted to wander in search of that female in season.

My first Havanese had a retained testicle (or undescended) and the repro vet said I could wait up to three years before having him neutered. Said a lot of vets wouldn't agree, but in his 20+ years of practice he'd never seen cancer from a retained testicle.


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## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

Well, we've been home 7 hours and he's still pretty out of it. Just sleeping, and looking whimpy. I've put Rocky downstairs with my kids - he just won't leave him alone.

He loved his chicken dinner, so I know his appetite is okay! )


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

mugsy just turned 16 months the other day.
i will likely have him done this summer. i need to be less wimpy about it but i'll feel better if i know that i have a few days with him after the surgery.
he is alone during the day while i'm at work and i know i wouldn't get anything done worrying about him.
i have turned into a complete mush with this dog.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

mugsy said:


> mugsy just turned 16 months the other day.
> i will likely have him done this summer. i need to be less wimpy about it but i'll feel better if i know that i have a few days with him after the surgery.
> he is alone during the day while i'm at work and i know i wouldn't get anything done worrying about him.
> * i have turned into a complete mush with this dog.*


We just love a man who is owned by his Havanese. :biggrin1:


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## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

I just went to the clinic yesterday to get Marley's bloodwork done. He's up for the big snip next Wednesday. I'm already a nervous wreck, but I'm sure all will be ok!! He hasn't started marking in our house, but tried to in a friend's house the other day (who has a couple of male dogs). I caught him just in time, as he was lifting his leg against their living room couch.........AHHH


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Marley's pic looks like he already knows!:suspicious:

My breeder told me to consider 6 months for neuturing Jackson BEFORE he starts lifting his leg (he's only 5 months). His little testicles look like peanuts now so I hope he won't miss them too much, plus his hair covers them up pretty well. When we went to pick up Jackson, his dad was running around trying to mark everything in sight and the breeder had him in one of those bands. It was pretty funny, but not something I want to deal with!

The good thing is Barrett doesn't lift because he was neutered early. By the way, Joe, my husband is smitten and my sons are even worse about Jackson . . .


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Me&2Girls said:


> My first Havanese had a retained testicle (or undescended) and the repro vet said I could wait up to three years before having him neutered. Said a lot of vets wouldn't agree, but in his 20+ years of practice he'd never seen cancer from a retained testicle.


 That's a bold statement to make, but then again, just because he hasn't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think UC Davis would have a lot to say about that. I went to a lecture up there and they were very firm about chryptorchidism and avoiding it at all costs (including not ever breeding the parents again that caused it because both parents must be carriers for it to occur). They pushed it very hard, and if I recall correctly, testicular cancer was the biggest reason (next to heritability).


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

_i have turned into a complete mush with this dog._

Welcome to the club!!!! these guys are equal opportunity mush makers-- both me and my husband are total MUSH!

I agree, do it on a friday and it will be no problem. Just think of Mugsy as being artsty and androgenous.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Oh Kimberly, you are so right. He knew he'd have to put on his flame suit :flame: - but his point was that it didn't have to be rushed - just at some point in the future he'd need to be neutered. By the way, I've done a ton of reading on this and there are some environmental factors to consider that will cause chryptorchidism. Most often it is hereditary however.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> That's a bold statement to make, but then again, just because he hasn't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think UC Davis would have a lot to say about that. I went to a lecture up there and they were very firm about chryptorchidism and avoiding it at all costs (including not ever breeding the parents again that caused it because both parents must be carriers for it to occur). They pushed it very hard, and if I recall correctly, testicular cancer was the biggest reason (next to heritability).


Kimberly,

I'm really surprised about the parents. Does that mean I can never get another pup from Milo's sire and dam? How disappointing!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Geri, I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the parents can both be bred, but just should not _to each other_ again. I believe the lecturer said that both parents must be carriers in order for it to be produced, so any breeder should make sure they don't repeat that exact breeding pair again.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

I think either parent can be a carrier. In my case the sire had 25 puppies with no problems but the dam had been bred to two different sires and had chryptorchidism in the males in both litters, so the dam was the carrier. We did check the possible source on the dam's side and this particular breeder didn't keep males and if she did, she neutered them early. Needless to say, I steer clear of this line now. And no, I will NOT name the breeder. Unfair and needless as there are other causes, not often, but there are.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> Geri, I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the parents can both be bred, but just should not _to each other_ again. I believe the lecturer said that both parents must be carriers in order for it to be produced, so any breeder should make sure they don't repeat that exact breeding pair again.


Thanks for the info. At least I don't have to worry about it again since I want my next one to be a girl . . . which was what I was looking for this time till Milo hooked me. But then again, I'm easily hooked, so the next one could be a boy too. ound:


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## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

Hi Alexa,

I'm sure Marley will do great!! He's such a doll!
Are you going to the Seattle Kennel Club dog show this weekend?? It's at Qwest Event Center.


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## maryvee (Jan 26, 2008)

Billy was neutered at 16 months-- he was healed within few days-- it's funny because he sometimes lifts his leg when he goes, and other times he just squats-- depends on whether he has something to lift his leg up on!ound:


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## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

Back from the vet....Marley did great!!!!!!! I was expecting him to be drugged/out of it, but he is behaving pretty much normal, and all he was interested when we came home was to finally get some FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD.

He did try to nibble on his stitches, so I put him in a baby Guess onesis that I still have from when my kids were little...one stylin' doggie...

Alexa


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## storybookstory (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm getting ready to have my puppy neutered. He's 5 months, nearly 6 by the time of his appointment. Do you think it's really necessary to get the pre-op bloodwork done? He's perfectly healthy. I just think my vet pushes too many tests and things "just to be safe". She also "offers" a $26 extra stool test (on top of the standard $19 stool test) to look for giardia (why look for it if there are no symptoms?). I just hate being a fool paying for unnecessary or semi-unnecessary tests.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Yes on the pre-op bloodwork. Here is one reason, and here is another.

I wouldn't bother with the Giardia test if there are no other symptoms.


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

Yoda just got Neutred about 2 months ago I did not want any accidents with Leia and he did mont Leia as of yet but he would our cat LOL


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## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

How do you know he is "perfectly healthy"?????

I just had my Marley neutered and he is the picture of health as far as I was concerned. My vet was going to charge about $400 to have him neutered, so I looked around and decided to take him to a pet/neuter clinic for that one. I still pushed to have the bloodwork done, although most people that go there don't.

I am glad I did. The vet called me back the evening of the bloodtest and said that some of his liver values are high and the protein is low. Which COULD be a sign of a liver shunt. Now Marley is NOT a tiny Hav by any means of the imagination (14lbs last time I weighed him), so I was super surprised to hear that, since most of the liver issues I had heard about so far seemed to happen in the smaller Havs. We'll go back in a month or two to do more tests and see where we are at then, but for the time being I was super glad we did the test, because that is the one thing that can cause problems during the anestesia...

Alexa



storybookstory said:


> I'm getting ready to have my puppy neutered. He's 5 months, nearly 6 by the time of his appointment. Do you think it's really necessary to get the pre-op bloodwork done? He's perfectly healthy. I just think my vet pushes too many tests and things "just to be safe". She also "offers" a $26 extra stool test (on top of the standard $19 stool test) to look for giardia (why look for it if there are no symptoms?). I just hate being a fool paying for unnecessary or semi-unnecessary tests.


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

Why would you not run these test really if it was a human you would run them right? Its a safty factor When Yoda was neutred we ran all the test lucky for me they where all fine .I also had a deep cleaning on his teeth at the same time since he was a sleep any ways I save on an extra appointment and putting him a sleep again.I sure hope you do run all the test and that you have a good vet that is one of the hard parts finding a "Good" vet why take them in to see a vet if you dont do the test the vet thinks you should


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## storybookstory (Dec 29, 2007)

susaneckert said:


> Why would you not run these test really if it was a human you would run them right? Its a safty factor When Yoda was neutred we ran all the test lucky for me they where all fine .I also had a deep cleaning on his teeth at the same time since he was a sleep any ways I save on an extra appointment and putting him a sleep again.I sure hope you do run all the test and that you have a good vet that is one of the hard parts finding a "Good" vet why take them in to see a vet if you dont do the test the vet thinks you should


For the same reason many people here question their vet on what and how many and when to get vaccines. I can see the bloodwork is an "extra" safety precaution, but how many times (in a puppy that is thriving and energetic) does the bloodwork show anything to worry about? Probably very seldom. Most rescue organizations don't go through the extra cost of the bloodwork when neutering animals before adoption. When my 13 yr old cat needed dental surgery I had the bloodwork done, no question. There was a real chance of kidney/liver issues.

I know I should just do it but DH is not working so money is scarce, and $41 for something that is probably just fine is something I have to think about. Also, are there any cheaper "mail in" stool sample kits? The vet wants $19 which is probably not completely unreasonable but if there were a cheaper option it would be nice.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

storybookstory said:


> I can see the bloodwork is an "extra" safety precaution, but how many times (in a puppy that is thriving and energetic) does the bloodwork show anything to worry about? Probably very seldom. Most rescue organizations don't go through the extra cost of the bloodwork when neutering animals before adoption. When my 13 yr old cat needed dental surgery I had the bloodwork done, no question. There was a real chance of kidney/liver issues.


I don't fault you for thinking your puppy is probably doing fine, and hopefully he really is, but there have been an awful lot of liver problem finds in the last year. Many of them were discovered by doing the routine pre-op bloodwork. Other symptoms don't show up until later usually.


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

When I had Izzy spayed, I was unaware of doing pre-op bloodwork. Since she got along fine, does that mean she doesn't have a liver shunt? She did have a lot of pain and seemed pretty groggy for awhile.....could that mean it's possible her liver wasn't working as it should to move the drugs through her system? I'm thinking I should get the blood work done anyway just be to sure....she is a tiny hav at 7.5 lbs.


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## cpbittner (Jan 15, 2008)

*behavior change?*

My wife and I are getting our pup Ricco neutered on Friday, I am just curious if anyone has noticed a change in their dogs behavior afterwards?

Chuck


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I did not notice a single change in my boy Logan. He was his same, happy go lucky, lovey dovey self!! The actual day of the surgery he was a little lethargic, but fine the next day.


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## cpbittner (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanks, that helps.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Yeah, I did. Within a coule weeks of the neutering, my boy stopped pulling towards every single tree in the neighbor hood and lifting his leg! Now he'd like to maybe do it, but if not that's ok too!  He also became a bit more of a snuggler.


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## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

I didn't notice any change in his personality, but the marking that was becoming sooooooooo irritating stopped within a very short period of time, and that was a very welcome change!!!


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

mugsy said:


> i'm not against have him neutered but was exploring the options.
> plus, i didn't realize till lately that, for him, it's a complete removal of his testicles and that sorta threw me...it's a male thing i guess.


You aren't the only one! Another local Hav owner I met has a female and male, and her husband will NOT allow her to have the male neutered! They are both pets. At least the female has been spayed so no unwanted pregnancies.

I have heard of male dogs getting vasectomies - but is it really true? Can anyone verify this?


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Kubrick, like Rufus, became a lot more of snuggler than he used to be... that's about it.


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## Trish (Jan 15, 2008)

Joe..I had neutered both my pups at 6 months and prior to that they never lifted their legs to pee..sort of a squat. Their procedure was done on the same day (in at 8 and out by 3) and they slept for an hour when they got home and off they went...it was tough to keep them from running and jumping. They had pre-op blood work done and their shave was very small on one paw for the IV...no stitches and barely a wound to notice..no licking either!! They didn't need a collar and recovery seemed to be in a day or so as far as their activity and behavior went. I haven't noticed any real change in either of them..still very boyish and love to play. Good decision to have it done!!! Trish


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Jane said:


> I have heard of male dogs getting vasectomies - but is it really true? Can anyone verify this?


Yes, but it isn't very common. I think neuticles* are more common than vasectomies.

*Neuticles are prosthetic testicles that are inserted into the scrotum so they look like they still have their testicles. If you touch them, they don't feel the same as real testicles at all (they are hard and almost marble-like, whereas testicles are not). I've heard that some people have even considered having neuticles implanted so they can show a dog, but since all dogs get a testes exam by the judge, it wouldn't really work.

Don't ask me how I know about neuticles. LOL


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> Don't ask me how I know about neuticles. LOL


I won't ask, but I'm guessing it wasn't for your own dogs! These Havs have er, tiny testicles which are hidden by so much hair anyway!


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## cpbittner (Jan 15, 2008)

I've seen a few comments mentioning pre-op bloodwork, do Havs have a tendency to problems during operations?


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Our vet said she prefers to do blood work the day before any surgery so we're doing it the day before Scooter gets fixed. She said she feels better prepared, and knows before they begin if there could be a problem.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Jane said:


> I won't ask, but I'm guessing it wasn't for your own dogs!


 Oh no, definitely not for my own dogs. If mine are sterilized, they lose all the looks of having the jewels too! LOL



cpbittner said:


> I've seen a few comments mentioning pre-op bloodwork, do Havs have a tendency to problems during operations?


It isn't specific to Havanese. It's a precautionary look that should be done with most any dog prior to going under anesthesia. It gives the veterinarian the a-okay that everything is normal before putting the dog under. (For example, a dog with extremely elevated liver values may perish under anesthesia. The bloodwork gives them the warning information.)


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## cpbittner (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanks, we're calling the vet tomorrow to make sure that is on their agenda


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## cpbittner (Jan 15, 2008)

14 Days...wow...that is how long the vet said we should leave the e collar on for that seems like a lifetime - anyway, I have a question. During the neutering the vet removed 6 deciduous teeth - I was a little taken back by the vet removing teeth without calling me. Is this a common practice?


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Without calling you first is NOT a common practice and would make me feel uneasy too. However if your little one has any retained teeth while they are under for a spay or neuter it's a great time for them to be removed. My breeder already cautioned me that Shamouti has a good chance of retaining his baby canines and will most likely need them pulled, so I'll be watching for that and scheduling his neuter to coinside with having them pulled. It's common to have it done then.


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

Our experience thus far with neutering.

Cooper went when he was about six months old. Had bloodwork, etc. Almost died when they put him under. His chart is redflagged for something regarding use of narcotics or something? I can't remember. 
Had to have more testing and some other form of putting him under and he was finally nuetered about 4 months ago.

Brought him home and crated him for a few hours. Then fed him. We tried our best to keep him down for a few days, but he wouldn't have it. He did just fine. And he never had a collar or even bothered the stitches at all.
Bodie was neutered the day before we brougt him home from the pound (they usually do it that morning, you pick up later that day. and bring a really bummed out dog to a new house..no thanks)
He came home and played with no problems, either. Again, no biting or anything at the site.


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