# WHAT is happening!?? (pics)



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Hello all!
About 2 days ago I noticed an "owie" on Tillie's neck (kind of by her "voice box" area)... i thought maybe one of the cats got her in thier "play" I've been putting neosporin on it and though it isn't healed it looks much better so far. Then yesterday i found 2 more owies on the side of her neck, about 2 inches below her ear, they are about as far apart as her nails. So, I thought, maybe it's a flea bite and she scratched and scratched herself... also been cleaning the area and putting neosporin on it. THEN just now I discovered yet another area, it was all crusted over with a yellowish scabby thing, and is right in the front of her chest area. I trimed around it and the scab came off and the area under looks red, raised and scaly. What could be going on!?? I am finding a new "owie" every day!? I am a basket case, worried about her, her hair is all greasy looking from the neosporin AND I just trimmed around them so they can breath... so she is NOT looking her fuzzy best right now! LOL
Here are a couple of pics, I will TRY to put them in order.
She had her frontline plus about 3 weeks ago, a bath a week ago and spends very little time outside. She hasn't eaten anything out of the ordinary and we haven't treated our lawn, or let her on others lawns. She hasn't been itching extra either...???
A trip to the vet is in our NEAR future, but wanted to run it by you guys while we wait for our appt... anyone have any idea what could be going on with my baby!???


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

don't know.  it sorta looks like bug bites. Seen any ticks? fleas? spiders?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

haven't seen any. I am thinking to treat her for fleas, but am hesitant because what IF the flea meds irritate her owies?? sigh ...


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

I wouldn't put more flea meds on since the Frontline Plus is supposed to last for a month and you don't want to over-medicate. I'm sure it is something simple but you won't feel good about it until the vet sees it!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I don't know what it is but I really feel for you. It's so hard when anything happens to our little ones. I'm hoping it's something really simple to cure. I wouldn't treat her with anything till the vet sees it. You don't want to risk making it worse.

Sending hugs your way.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

thanks for the thoughts! ya, that's what I was thinking about the Frontline (to not use it again, yet) We DID however treat the cats last night, since Tillie gets the flea from THEM. :suspicious:
I am beyond frustrated. The vet's office just called and apparently the vet had an emergency and cancled his appts for the rest of the day ... sigh. I will have to try to be squeezed in sometime tomorrow at the earliest. i just hope I don't discover MORE of these weird owies. :frusty:


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I think it looks suspiciously like flea bite dermititis. I would go to the vet and let them put you on a schedule. If the vet says its okey in the summer months in some areas you may need to use the frontline (or other topical) 2xa month. You do need to see your vet. My Lhasa is flea sensitive and it often looks like this, we use Benadryle if it gets this bad, and for my Lhasa it can go to swelling all over!!!!! Do ask your vet. When I first moved to NC I use to shave the undercarrriage of the dogs, after seeing a Allergist who ask if I could manage it. My dogs have been in full coat since. Seems Fleas and Ticks will ride around awhile before biting. So if I comb them out each night they seldom get bit anymore. This is not for everyone. My Vet also said few can deal with full coat. Hope you get to the bottom of this.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

thanks for the advice! I am kinda thinking it might be flea bites too, just cause I have NO idea what else it could be. I am hoping to get an appt tomorrow... I am a nervous wreck though, even broke down and bought her her 1st Bully Stick! LOL I SOOOO wish I didn't know what it REALLY is though. uke: she is going to TOWN on it and is wearing it down and eating it puke:uke:uke... I kinda thought it would LAST longer seeing as how BIG it is! LOL


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

SHOOT, Tillie just scratched off the scab on the new biggest one on her chest!! poor thing.. she was actually on me when she did it, so I was able to stop her right away, but it was bleeding...  I cleaned it up and got some neosporin on it, she is sleeping for the night now. sigh...


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

TilliesMom said:


> SHOOT, Tillie just scratched off the scab on the new biggest one on her chest!! poor thing.. she was actually on me when she did it, so I was able to stop her right away, but it was bleeding...  I cleaned it up and got some neosporin on it, she is sleeping for the night now. sigh...


 Maybe if she continues to itch so much before your Dr visit you could put that thing you got for when she was spayed. Is it called a cone? Do you have benadryl at your house? Poor Tillie and Mon


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## snfhav (Feb 24, 2011)

Could it be cat ringworm?


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

How is Tillie today? I hope you can take her to the vet today. Let us know. Good luck.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Hope Tillie is felling better. I forgot to say when Boo Boo starts the scratching, we put a shirt on him so he can not make himself bloody.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I was wondering about ringworm too. Ringworm causes round, red raised areas that can spread from one area of the body to another. I don't know if ringworm is necessarily itchy though. Has Tillie been in contact with any stray cats or other dogs in your neighborhood? 
It could be flea allergy too though. Whatever it is, I hope your vet can give you something that cures it quickly. Poor Tillie.


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## RickR (Feb 15, 2007)

Feel better Tillie. Hope you don't have to wear a dreaded cone!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Tammy, if you have not noticed any fleas, it could be hot spots or bacterial infection(yellow crusty) Cash used to get these all the time. The Vet gave me a anti bacterial shampoo (chlorahexidine) and a topical steroid/antibacterial (tresaderm.) Ultimately it was a food allergy that caused it. for Cash it was what he was eating. Since changing his diet he has had no more, ear, eye of skin guckies or itchies. But spring is here with lots of pollens, molds and new grasses. so it could just be seasonal.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

It is so hard when you don't know what is going on. I really fell bad for you. It seems like you have had one thing after another. You are the best Mom and it will get better
Has anyone herd that the flea medication needs to be applied in more than one location and that it only works when oils are being distracted?
Hope you can get into the vet this morning.:hug:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kodi has had two bouts of bacterial skin infections that were raised bumps that if you pressed on them were filled with yellow serum. The vet said that it had most likely started as an allergy, (it was EXACTLY the same time of year both times) which then allowed bacteria to enter the skin. He was on antibiotics for 2 weeks and it cleared right up. 

But I'm not sure that's what's happening with Tillie... Kodi wasn't scratching at all. OTOH, the vet said I caught it really early, because I felt the bumps and was able to get him right in. I don't know if he would have started scratching if it went on longer.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> Has anyone herd that the flea medication needs to be applied in more than one location


NBo, I've been told the opposite with both dogs AND cats. The reason you put it in between the shoulder blades is that they can't reach it there with their mouths, so there is no risk of ingestion. Obviously, with two puppies, you'l have to watch that one isn't licking it off the other. What would be the point of putting it in more than one location, especially on such a small animal?



Suzi said:


> and that it only works when oils are being distracted?


I don't know what you mean by this? Do you mean that you aren't supposed to put it on a freshly washed dog? I know that the directions say to wait at least 24 hours after a bath, but I'm not sure of the reason. I can ask one of my vet friends.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> NBo, I've been told the opposite with both dogs AND cats. The reason you put it in between the shoulder blades is that they can't reach it there with their mouths, so there is no risk of ingestion. Obviously, with two puppies, you'l have to watch that one isn't licking it off the other. What would be the point of putting it in more than one location, especially on such a small animal?
> 
> I don't know what you mean by this? Do you mean that you aren't supposed to put it on a freshly washed dog? I know that the directions say to wait at least 24 hours after a bath, but I'm not sure of the reason. I can ask one of my vet friends.


 I went to a havanese grooming seminar and the women giving the class said all that. She stated all I already wrote. Two other people stepped in and follow her way of flea control all said they only have to apply once a year. And it only works when the hair is growing and dis creating oils . She is some what of a healer type person  and also a dog behaviorist.
Do you all believe in preventative flea control Maddies skin has gotten so much better I'm worried about putting chemicals on her. Zoey has never had any yet. I do have a supply of frontline plus. Probably should apply soon. At least if Maddie gets bad again I would know it is the chemicals.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> I went to a havanese grooming seminar and the women giving the class said all that. She stated all I already wrote. Two other people stepped in and follow her way of flea control all said they only have to apply once a year. And it only works when the hair is growing and dis creating oils . She is some what of a healer type person  and also a dog behaviorist.
> Do you all believe in preventative flea control Maddies skin has gotten so much better I'm worried about putting chemicals on her. Zoey has never had any yet. I do have a supply of frontline plus. Probably should apply soon. At least if Maddie gets bad again I would know it is the chemicals.


I think I would never do something based on one person's say-so, when it is contrary to what many other experienced dog people and vets are telling me. It makes no sense to talk about it "only working when the hair is growing" on a Hav... Their hair is ALWAYS growing. So if that's when they create oils, they do it all the time.

I have NEVER heard that topical flea preventives can continue to work for a year. My guess is that if someone thinks they are working for a year, they probably didn't need them to start with.

As far as Maddie in specific is concerned, if you have a dog with a particular sensitivity, then, of course you want to be very careful what you put on her. Perhaps try the Apple Cider Vinegar rinses instead? That can't possibly hurt her. Or go a completely different route and try Comfortis instead of a topical, if fleas are the only problem. We have a much bigger problem with ticcks than fleas, so we have to use something to prevent both, and Comfortis doesn't affect ticks.

BTW, ALL the topicals last longer than suggested on the packaging (though not nearly a year!!!:biggrin1 They will last for at least 6 weeks. The manufacturer suggests treating monthly to make sure the animal is protected if people forget for a week or so. (and the cynical part of me suspects that they know it also makes them more money) I keep Kodi on an every 6 week schedule for Advantix. (same with the cat, though she gets Frontline)


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Dexter and Jack has the same thing. We use Frontline TopSpot for Fleas and Ticks. And......what the tick does is hang on for dear life while the tick is consuming the medication in the blood stream. 

Anyway....while the tick is hanging on....it dies...gets all dried up and ends up looking like a dried scab unless you are lucky to find the tick early...then, you can really see it was a tick.


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## lkwilson (Mar 6, 2011)

Any word on Tillie?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Just got back from the vet, he THINKS it is allergy to flea bites... although no signs of fleas were found. :suspicious: he told me to bath her, look to see if there are any other of these sores and reapply frontline tomorrow (24 hrs after bath) and if she is still having problems to bring her back in. So basically he doesn't KNOW what is going on, just guessing and ruling out things. sigh. 
The good news is the ones she has are healing up nicely and I haven't found any more ... soooooo, really I don't know much more than I did BEFORE the appt. LOL Oh, he didn't even think ringworm or anything, the sores are all different shapes ... and she has consistantly been on heartworm pills which is suppose to help with all types of worms...?


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I remember reading once that bathing in Dawn dishwashing liquid, submerging them in water up to their necks gets rid of any fleas. Here's a link


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I've read that too... since Tillie is light and she has barely a 1/2 inch of hair, I would think I would SEE something, flea poop at least! LOL can't wait to bathe her! With trying to heal up these owies, her whole neck looks all greasy from all the neosporin! can't wait till she is CLEAN!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Poor baby. When she's all clean and smells delish, give her a kiss from me.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

awwww, thanks, I WILL!


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

I hope she heals nicely. Hugs to Tillie.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> I think I would never do something based on one person's say-so, when it is contrary to what many other experienced dog people and vets are telling me. It makes no sense to talk about it "only working when the hair is growing" on a Hav... Their hair is ALWAYS growing. So if that's when they create oils, they do it all the time.
> 
> I have NEVER heard that topical flea preventives can continue to work for a year. My guess is that if someone thinks they are working for a year, they probably didn't need them to start with.
> 
> ...


 I was just wondering if anyone else had herd that . I didn't know that about topical lasting longer that's good to know. Do you treat in the winter?


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Here in NC, I might be able to miss one or two months (Dec/Jan) of the flea/tick medication, depending on if the weather stays cold. 

If you live where it is warm all the time, I would be giving the flea/tick medication every month.


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## Tony & Milo (Nov 25, 2010)

Hope Tillie is feeling better. Did you find out what it was? Keep us posted please.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> I was just wondering if anyone else had herd that . I didn't know that about topical lasting longer that's good to know. Do you treat in the winter?


No, but we get very cold winters with hard frosts and a lot of snow. I give their systems a break from mid Nov. (unless it's unusually warm) and the beginning of April, or until I see the first tick. (fleas are less of a problem than ticks for us)

I give Kodi's system a break from heart worm Meds during the winter too. There are certainly no mosquitos around here in the winter!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Have you read the other trend about fleas ? I think it is as bad as having head lice on a kid . I'm sorry to be so blunt but your hole house has to be treated . Your cats probably brought them in. We had some and bombed the house twice. I didn't go to the extreme of washing everything ext I just covered up food and any thing that would go in someones mouth. I'm sure you know it is extra hard with kids involved. Did you read about the borax that sounds like a good alternative for the rugs.:hug:


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Oh good grief!!!! Tillie most probably has Flea Dermatitis, this is a sensitivity to a flea bit, that is ONE bit, or any flea Bite, that does not mean someone has a lot of fleas or a flea problem in their house, all it takes is one flea bite!!!!! Every flea bit on a dog that is sensitive will do this. I had posted earlier. My Lhasa has this, many Lhasa's and Tibetan Terriers are flea sensitive this is consitered heritable (not genetic) and more so in some breeds. 

Tillies Mom, You need to be pro active. Just keep up with the flea meds and if you have an out door cat keep her at a reasonable distance even though cat and dog fleas are different, fleas will ride around to get to a host. If she keeps getting bit then your flea product may not be working in your area. Also keep her out of sand and pine straw esp. during the warm weather.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I am attempting to keep her away from the cats (though she is NOT happy and whines for them.) we did treat the cats with frontline 2 days ago, and they don't have any signs of having them. I know we don't have them in the house, never had a problem there. And like I said, No signs of fleas ON Tillie, just these strange owies that seem to be healing, slowly. I haven't found any new ones (YAY!) since yesterday and even that one is 50% smaller and healed now.
I think we are on the right track... as long as she doesn't get any new ones!!


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Tillie's Mom, You can only do your best. Remember it takes only one bite. We can't control every single place our dogs go. You may never see a flea.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I think it is weird that Tillie after all this time would suddenly developed flea dermatitis. And she has always been around your cats. She as far as I remember had not had front line before three weeks ago? She developed her soars after going to the groomer? Did your vet do a skin scraping? I'm Just not wanting her to have that
Hope she gets to play with her other fur friends soon


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

She actually hasn't been to the groomer in about 3 weeks, doesn't have anything to do with that... another possible culprit COULD be maybe one of the cats 'got her' and I didn't notice, heaven knows she irritates them enough that they DO swipe at her on occasion!
No, he didn't do a skin scraping. She's had Frontline 3 times now ... not sure what it is/was, but the owies are healing nicely and I haven't found any new ones.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Allergy's do not happen on a one time deal, they happen after being exposed many times. Tillie was probably in the wrong place and got bit. If your dog has a problem one bit will cause swelling and a big sore and each bite will do the same. Cats that play out side bring in all kinds of things, this is no fault of the cat it is its nature to explore. Then again we also bring in fleas. It is not the end of the world, one just needs to be proactive. It is no different then when we get bit and need to use calamine lotion or a pill to get rid of the itch. Also skin scrapings are for mites, doubtful at this point and not needed. The sores are there, the difference is a specialist has seen this so many times they can say for sure, our reg Vets may think this is it but, not feel comfortable, so they treat and do a lets see. Tillie's Mom don't stress.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

oh, no worries, I'm not stressed, do I sound stressed in my posts? LOl
Tillie's owies are almost all better and I haven't found anything else, I am wondering if it could have been spider bites or something? anywho.. all better!


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Doubtful true spider bites that are noticed often result in death or a lot of medical care. Check out the little article in Havanese Horizons, they have have a little thing about it being that time of year for flea bite allergy's.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

thanks, I'll check that article out!


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## HavGracie (Feb 27, 2012)

TilliesMom said:


> Hello all!
> About 2 days ago I noticed an "owie" on Tillie's neck (kind of by her "voice box" area)... i thought maybe one of the cats got her in thier "play" I've been putting neosporin on it and though it isn't healed it looks much better so far. Then yesterday i found 2 more owies on the side of her neck, about 2 inches below her ear, they are about as far apart as her nails. So, I thought, maybe it's a flea bite and she scratched and scratched herself... also been cleaning the area and putting neosporin on it. THEN just now I discovered yet another area, it was all crusted over with a yellowish scabby thing, and is right in the front of her chest area. I trimed around it and the scab came off and the area under looks red, raised and scaly. What could be going on!?? I am finding a new "owie" every day!? I am a basket case, worried about her, her hair is all greasy looking from the neosporin AND I just trimmed around them so they can breath... so she is NOT looking her fuzzy best right now! LOL
> Here are a couple of pics, I will TRY to put them in order.
> She had her frontline plus about 3 weeks ago, a bath a week ago and spends very little time outside. She hasn't eaten anything out of the ordinary and we haven't treated our lawn, or let her on others lawns. She hasn't been itching extra either...???
> A trip to the vet is in our NEAR future, but wanted to run it by you guys while we wait for our appt... anyone have any idea what could be going on with my baby!???


Tammy, I felt the exact same way, but I was putting hydrocortisone cream on her. I thought maybe it was from her heartworm meds or maybe even ringworm. I know you had Tillie tested and she ended up with extensive food allergies. I sure hope the vet is right, and it's only "pollen" type allergies. We will wait and see. Thanks again for reposting this and also the pics. It sure looks like what Gracie is dealing with right now.

Thanks again,

Connie


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Can we have a picture of a healed Tillie?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

HavaneseSoon said:


> Can we have a picture of a healed Tillie?


lol, well I know I've posted tons of pics of her since then... there isn't much to see!  but here's one just for fun! 

her skin looks probably just like every other hav now... healthy pink-ish and no sores!


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Awwwwwwww....She is so pretty! So, glad she is all better. So, do you think it was a flea bite after all?


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## Ruth4Havs (May 13, 2013)

She could've been eating or smelling that she was allergic to.


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## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

Looks like bug bites to me. I avoid Frontline and all flea and tick meds like crazy after my Hav had an allergic reaction.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

lol, NO it was NOT flea bites! The vet did a thourough exam, skin scrapings for mites, she had over a hundred of these sores there was not a flea on her anywhere, or any flea debris... the vet said that often times havs can get flea bite dermatitis, but that this did NOT look like that and the fact that she didn't have even 1 flea on her ...
this was over 2 yrs ago.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

Glad to see her feeling better :amen:


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

thanks!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

so I just read through this whole thread and am fairly certain I must have started a new one because this thread doesn't have a conclussion! lol

Sooooooo... the sores started coming back rapidly and within a few days the back of her ear flaps were crusted over, she had sores all over her neck and head, it was horrible.
I took her back to the vet and he did skin scrapings looking for mites or worms or anything and it all came back clean... so he did blood work. Turns out she had a skin infection from these sores with an underlying food allergy. He did a whole allergy work up on her and she is allergic to almost everything you would find in traditional dog food... turkey, chicken, duck, carrots, apples, berries, oatmeal, soy, peas, potatoes, etc... so I made the desicion to homecook for her. It was very overwhelming at first and I did end up going through the dog nutritionist, over 2 yrs later the routine of making her food, doing the veggies, the vitamin mix, adding everything to her food, etc is all second nature. She is healthy and happy and hasn't had a flare up or any other skin issue since. 
The End.


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

Tillie is beautiful, Tammy. She looks like such a "girlie girl" and so photogenic.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Suzi said:


> Maybe if she continues to itch so much before your Dr visit you could put that thing you got for when she was spayed. Is it called a cone? Do you have benadryl at your house? Poor Tillie and Mon


Yes, I was going to suggest Benadryl as well.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

sandypaws said:


> Tillie is beautiful, Tammy. She looks like such a "girlie girl" and so photogenic.


lol, thanks! yes, she is a girlie girl, when I read about poop eaters and rolling in dead worms and mud, etc I realize yes, she IS girlie... she would NEVER even think about doing any of those things!!! lol


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

swaye said:


> Yes, I was going to suggest Benadryl as well.


this thread is over 2 yrs old ... it was resurected because another forum member was having issues with sores and I linked her to this thread to see the pictures...


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