# Balancing owning a Havanese and you working



## joemodeler

Hi all. I have been viewing this site for a couple of months and it is a great place to learn a lot about Havanese.

My wife and I unexpectantly adopted a Havanese from a family member. We love her very much. We have read in several locations on the Internet and at these forums that a Havanese should not be left home alone for 8 to 9 hrs as they enjoy interaction with humans.

Has anyone been successful in training their Havanese to be left home alone for 8 to 9 hours a day, 5 days a week with out causing it to have separation anxiety ?

We have an alternative schedule in mind and wanted to know other's opinions and who have a schedule similar to the one below:

Sat and Sun - we are home and she will get plenty of exercise
Mon - she stays home and rests from the weekend's activities/when we return home we play with her and take her on her scheduled walk
Tues - she goes to a dog care center/when we return home we play with her and take her on her scheduled walk
Wed. - she stays home and rests from the Tuesday's activities/when we return home we play with her and take her on her scheduled walk
Thursday - she goes to a dog care center or spends the day at my mother-in-laws house and gets/when we return home we play with her and take her on her scheduled walk
Fri. - she stays home and rests from the Thursday's activities/when we return home we play with her and take her on her scheduled walk

Have you adopted another Havanese or similar dog to keep your other dog company and been successful at lowering the separation anxiety ? (I am aware there are many unknowns to this arrangement but just asking)

Thank you very much for all of your assistance.

Joe


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## irnfit

Hi and welcome to the forum. I think you can get them used to your schedule. I like the idea of doggy day care. It allows them to socialize with other dogs and people, plus they get exercise. What I would suggest is on the days when she is home alone, may you could get someone to walk her mid-day. 

When she is home, is she crated or does she have room to play? I don't think she shouldn't be kept in a crate for that many hours.

Good luck. I know you will get some good advice from others on the forum.


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## Thumper

I know there are atleast a few on here that work 40 hours a week, and some of those people have helped ease the separation anxiety by getting another Havanese to keep the other one company!  lol

Sounds like you have a pretty good plan in place. I agree with Michele on the crate..8-9 hours seems like a long time to spend in a crate. Do you have a larger area to gate off? Or does your Hav have free roam of the house?

:welcome: to the forum!
Kara


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## Beamer

Hi Joe,

Welcome to the forum!

My wife and I both work fulltime hours. On the weekdays we leave Beamer at home alone in the lower level of our home. He has half the floor to himself. (When he was younger we had him in a pretty large x-pen) but now he has graduated to half the floor. Soon we will let him have full run of the house. He is 10 months old now.

Everyday we have our parents coming to visit him for acouple hours a day for play and to take him outside to potty. Sometimes they take him to their homes. So he really does not spend toooo much time alone, and when he does, he sleeps! (i have video taped him to see what he is up to)

He still does whine when we leave in the morning, but he has gotten better. And if we give him some GOOD treats before leaving, that also helps.

Ryan


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## juliav

:welcome: to the forum Joe.

Your schedule sounds pretty good and like the others have suggested, it would be great if you could have someone come in on the days she is home to walk and play with her?
I think it would be great for her to have another Hav to play with when you are at work. You know what they say, misery loves company.


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## Guest

:wave::wave::wave: Welcome to the forum, Joe!

When my husband and I first got married we had one dog, and although she had a large fenced yard with access to the garage, she became very destructive. Well, we decided to get another dog to see if having a buddy would change her behavior...which it did.

Since then we have always had two dogs, which also makes it nice if you have to go out for awhile or have to leave them to go on a trip.

I would suppose that you would be the best judge of how your dog reacts to being alone. I also think that given a bit more time on this forum you will no doubt fall victim to MHS..ound:


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## Missy

Welcome to the forum Joe. I have two Havs that are pretty independent and spend some days alone. Most of the time I work from home two of the 5 days in the week-- on those days I am not home I have someone come in mid-day-- So I think your schedule sounds really workable. That being said, How old is the Hav you are adopting? Does she already have a seperation issue? What is her name and of course-- Do you have pictures?


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## Laurief

Welcome to the forum Joe - lots of great advise from everyone. I agree with Michelle that 8 -9 hours alone is not the best for a Hav. They def. love interaction. My three are very spoiled cause we own our own business and our office is only 1/8 mile from my house. So between hubby & I they are never left more than 4 hours. I seriously wonder how they would do - or WHAT they would do (to my house) if they were left for that long. You have certainly came to the right place to get suggestions and I am sure more people will chime in. Let us know how you make out with that other puppy thing:biggrin1: Cause we like pictures!!! How about one of your current pup????


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## joemodeler

Thank you all for the big welcome.

Her name is Luna. I do not have any pictures to post as I am not home presently, ha ha.
But her head is black and the rest of her is white but as she is growing older a little black peaking through it. She is 10 months old.

We do not crate her while we are not home. She has half the house to run around and the staircase as well - which we believe she has practiced going up and down as she has gotten better at it, we noticed - and we may graduate her to more of the house as she gets older. We would allow her in the den but she like many other Havanese I have learned here love to be on furniture and when she is on the back of the couch looking out the window she loves to bark at cars passing at 50 yards away so until we train her better she has a lot of space to roam and plenty of dog beds, our bed and living furniture to sleep on. She has plenty of toys and loves to dig through her toy bag.

She does have some separation issues but varies depending on how much energy she has. Most of the time it seems like angry. We have considered adding a dog walker for one day to the schedule. Further, my wife does not work far from our home but only has 20 minutes to spend with her and her schedule varies from day to day.

If we adopt another dog it will not be until after we struck Luna into our lives. I happy to see that others have been successful with two dogs and alleviating the separation anxiety.

Thank you for your suggestions.

Joe


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## Missy

you and your wife sound very loving and thoughtful-- I am sure you and Luna will work it out!!! I can't wait to see pictures of your little Luna.


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## joemodeler

A sentence should read 

"If we adopt another dog it will not be until after we -structure - Luna into our lives. No. no , not "struck."


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## ama0722

I now work full time but my girls are 5 and almost 3. When I am gone they have full roam of the house. However my husband has a strange schedule and works from home quite frequently (about the entire month he has worked from home). I do notice when he has to be gone long hours- they do get very clingy.

I think the doggy day care is a good idea as well-just really check it out cause you dont want your havanese playing with a bunch of crazy high strung dogs and getting injured. I would make sure you get a large set up for her on days she is going to be home alone- maybe the size of an ex pen or two on a tile area. How are you housebreaking her? This is where a young dog will have a lot of trouble I would think being left alone for such a long period. 

It is great you are thinking threw what would be best for her! Keep us posted!

Amanda


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## DanielBMe

Bogart was alone 10hrs a day 5 days a week while I was at work. He did ok but he definitely needed my attention and solid play time when I got home. I ended up never going out during the week because I felt guilty leaving him alone for 10hrs while I'm at work, then go home to walk him, then leave again. Coudn't bring myself to do that. 

Of course I still felt guilty hence why about 2 months ago I got another  It's much better with two and not all that much more work. Actually I wish I would have gotten both at the same time as puppies. Although bringing in a puppy now when Bogart was 17months old seems to have made him a bit of a puppy again which is a good thing.


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## CapotesMom

*I work 40 hours a week, 9 hours a day...*

And Capote has adjusted well. I used to freak out when I first got him, but it's what he's used to now, so he's ok. I started off in the beginning when he was a puppy, leaving the radio and a light on so he had some background noise. I'd leave him treats that took him a long time to work on like bully sticks and kongs with frozen peanut butter to keep him occupied.

I'm sure having a cat has also dulled the separation anxiety. He plays with the cat a lot so he seems content. I know when I had the tree up and the cat up during the day, Capote seemed more nervous when I got home than he used to, but now that the cat is back out he's been ok again, so I think having a play buddy speaks volumes.

I also leave him in the kitchen. He's crate trained at night so I can't leave him in there all day..it's just cruel. He has the freedom of the kitchen to run around and play with his toys, eat and drink and sleep. He's housebroken so he holds it until I get home, but when I do he makes a bee line for the door.

Hope this helps! I was worried at first about not being there as well, but daycare isn't an option (WAY too expensive for multiple days) and I can't not work so he had to adjust..and he did quite well.


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## Lola

Capotes Mom,
Can your dog go 9 hrs without messing in the house or do you have pee pads out. I would love to know how you trained him to go that long. My Maggie can hold it forever but my Lola, the Havanese, can only go about 4 hrs before having to go.


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## Rita

Hey Joe. :welcome: to the forum. I work and so does DH but our schedule allows that he is really only home 6 hours alone. He stays in his crate with Xpen attached with a washable pee pad. He doesn't use it but that is just in case something happens and he ends up being alone longer than expected. If we know it is going to be longer, Grandma and Pa come and visit.

We were walking him twice a day once in the morning before we left and in the evening but the weather hasn't been good lately. So usually we have a 20-30 min intense game of fetch in the house before we go.

Houston has adopted to the situation very well. I do thank the breeder though for picking a perfect Hav for me because his personality was not clingy so we have no separation anxiety.

I am a true believer that it is the quality of time you give to them that is most important. You seem like you have a good game plan and have thought about it. That shows you are dedicated to giving your dog the best. :biggrin1:Good luck.


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## Elaine

Joe,
Can you post an area where you live and maybe there is someone on the list who might like a day play buddy. I agree that you need to check out the daycare because your Havanese will pick up on how the other dogs act there. They are very smart and if they see other dogs getting away with things than they will try it also. You sound like you are trying to work out a great schedule for your new girl and when I worked 6 hours a day my only girl at the time would explain to me how her day went as soon as I got home. You might want to limit Luna's free roaming of the house, at least where she can't bark at all the cars. You are not home enough to train her to not bark at them so you might want to only give her that local when you are home. It sounds like she has plenty of rooms and that you are not having a housetraining problem, x-pens across hallways work very well and they have some very nice fencing for in the house if you want to make it more permanent and look nice. Having more than one is always great, believe me most of the Hav owners on this list know you can't have just one. Good luck and keep us posted on her progress.


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## CapotesMom

Capote used to use pee pads. I left them out on the kitchen floor for him to use. One day I switched the brand he used before and he just stopped going on them all together. I'm guessing maybe he didn't like the smell of them or something? Either way he trained himself sort of to wait until I got home. My garage door is right next to the back door to the yard so as soon as I come in I open the door for him to go out..lol. 

I let him go out 2-3 times in the morning while I'm there, and then he's in for 9 hours. When I get home he usually goes out twice that night and that's all he ever needs. When he wants to go, he'll either lead me to the back door when I'm in the kitchen or jump up and down by it to let me know it's time. I was going to bell train him but I never really had to get that far. The good thing about him and havs in general is that they're so dang smart!! lol. They practically train themselves. You just set up a routine and that's what he gets used to. 

The same thing happens at night. When I tell him 'bedtime' he goes to his crate and lays down. Of late he's taken up the habit of taking his bully stick in there as well..I guess so the cat doesn't steal it at night?? (he's so possessive..lol)


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## Cheryl

When we are both at work, we have gated off 1/2 of our downstairs. We did get a second Hav to help keep the first one company. We have a doggie door. A couple times per week they have a couple middle schooler girls who come and play with them in the back yard. 

The one thing that I found helps a lot is I take them for a walk before work. I hate getting up early enough to do that, but the exercise is good for all of us.


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## brugmansia

Hi everyone! This is joemodeler's wife. We took Luna to the doggie daycare center today for an evaluation and she passed. We had to bring her medical history so they could see that she had her shots and then leave her for 4 hours. There was a toy poodle there and she had fun playing with the dog, as well as the staff. The place does have a webcam, so you can check to see how the dog is doing during the day while you're at work. She was worn out when we took her home.

To answer some questions, Luna usually does very well during the day until I get home from work. I do leave wee-wee pads by the back door as I had noticed that when we first got her, she would do her things by the back door. I try to come home during lunchtime to take her out, sometimes for a walk, in the back yard, and then play for a bit, running around the house or I'll throw a toy of her choice. It usually is about 30-45 minutes that I'll be with her. Then I go back to work. It's easier to leave her in the morning than in the afternoon. Both times I'll give her a treat before I leave. I will leave the radio on everyday, usually the classical station. She has her bones, chewie rawhide toys, and the rest of her toys available at all times. The only rooms she's not allowed in is the office and the den, along with the 2 bedrooms upstairs, otherwise she has free reign of the first floor of the house. We don't crate her during the day, but I do have her crate open in case she wants to go in, along with a pillow in the living room, and a pillow in the bedroom, although we have noticed that she has practiced jumping on our bed-there are impressions in our down comforter when we get home. I do have a cotton blanket over our duvet cover.

Here are a couple of pictures of Luna, one from May 2007 and another one in December 2007.

Hope you're all enjoying your weekend.


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## Guest

Mrs Joe and






to the forum!

Luna is just gorgeous! It's awesome that you found a doggy day care with a Web Cam..how cool is that?? :biggrin1:

Sounds like you've made a very nice environment for her to be in while you are both at work.


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## mintchip

She is adorable!
I agree 2 havs are wonderful!:whoo:


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## Rita

Hello Joe's wife. :welcome: Luna is a cutie.


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## juliav

Well hello there Joe's wife, welcome to the forum.
Luna is just beautiful. :biggrin1:


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang

I don't have any tips beyond what's been shared so far, but I did want to say WELCOME to the forum!

Luna is very pretty.

Wanda


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## Suuske747

Welcome to the 3 of you 

How sweet of you to adopt from your family member! You must really love her!

You've got it organised excellently....Basically she's alone at home just twice a week! She'll definitly be able to deal with that!

Doggy Day Care with Webcam!! WOW!!! May I ask what it costs you for those 2 days?

Welcome again, and please do share more piccies of Luna!! I love her name!!!


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## pjewel

Luna is adorable and obviously very well behaved. Happy to have you with us and look forward to getting updates. This is a great group. You'll love it here.


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## irnfit

Luna is very pretty. Sounds like the doggy daycare will work out very well.


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## Poornima

Luna is very cute and it appears that your arrangements are working out really well. Good luck!


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## brugmansia

Hi everyone. Today was Luna's first full day at doggie daycare. She was nervous at first when I dropped her off this morning, but then she was playing and dancing around by the end of the day when I picked her up. Tomorrow she'll stay at home. She's already tired. 

The cost for a full day is $28.00 + tax = $30.42. We're trying it out one day a week and the other she'll be with my mom. The other 3 days, I'll come home during lunchtime to spend time with her.

I will certainly post more pictures of Luna.


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## ama0722

Good to hear things are going well! I think it just matters in the daycare you find. Some are good and some not so much.

There is a doggy day car near my house that is $45 a day but what they offer is doggy field trips! They will pick your dog up at the house and take the dog to the beach, to the mountain, etc. I would just have to see how much they charge for the groom and bath afterwards- then I might as well just take the day off!


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## Rita

Glad to hear Luna had a good day. :biggrin1:That is not a bad price at all.


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## Jill in Mich

Hi Luna's people! I just happened to come across this thread today and wondered how things were going in terms of balancing full-time jobs & Luna? Leaving the dogs home during the day is probably what I worry about most. I did get a second dog, shortly after my first for company. I tried to do the doggy daycare on the same schedule you had set up but it just got to be too expensive. And having a dogwalker come to the house was almost as expensive as full day daycare. I walk the dogs every morning for 30-45 minutes and then every evening for at least an hour (every day, no matter the weather). I have pee pads set up in their room that they each use at least once during the day. I also try to find neighborhood dogs for them to play with as frequently as possible. One of the other things I do is just when I'm ready to leave in the morning, I run through the house throwing good treats (usually Natural Balance Rolls and cheese) in every room of the house - on furniture, in corners, in their crates (it's quite a sight, I'm sure). Then I leave them each a frozen bone with canned food. They race after me making sure they know where all the treats are and then run back to gobble them up. It's gotten so they can't wait for me to leave in the morning. (I don't leave chewies or bullies for them - I'm concerned about choking.) Overall they seem to be doing okay with it but I still feel guilty and don't go out very often because I don't want them to be home any longer than they have to. I try to remember that even if I'm home, they sleep most of the day. Have you come across any good tricks to use?


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## Lina

Jill, one thing I do that Kubrick LOVES is I put some of his beef jerky cut up in small pieces into a treat ball when I leave. I sometimes can hear him running around after it when the elevator is taking its time. He really loves playing with it! Here's the ball I bought for him:

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?f...24&ParentCat=30&CFID=1169660&CFTOKEN=24556832

I bought it in the small size (not the mini) so he can't actually pick it up with his mouth (they're not supposed to be able to).


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## Jill in Mich

Lina, you're my "font of information" today! Thanks!!! I like the looks of that ball. Tess doesn't understand the concept of rolling the ball to get the treats but is actually smarter than Cody since he rolls the ball and she snatches up the treats! I haven't been very happy with the ball I got, so I'll give this one a try. That would be a great alternative with the frozen bones.


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## brugmansia

Hi Jill. Apparently my post that I wrote yesterday didn't take. DH had asked me if I had responded to you, which I did. He came to this forum to read my answer to you and couldn't find my post. I will try to remember what I wrote yesterday.

We are doing well with balancing our jobs and incorporating Luna into our lives. I take her to doggie daycare once a week on Tuesdays so that she's semi-tired on Wednesday. Thursdays I'll take her to my mom's if she's available, otherwise I'll take her to daycare. On the weekends Luna has us for the entire weekend. I will play with her in the mornings as I try to exercise (right now I'm doing my walking around the house and she'll run in front of me with a toy in her mouth), then I'll feed her, leave her a few treats here and there before I leave. If I have time, I'll come home during lunch to spend some time with her and play. When I come home, it's mini-playtime, then dinner time, then play until DH comes home. She'll give him her undivided attention then. DH will usually take her for a walk around 8pm. Since we're getting our yard completely fenced in - hopefully tomorrow - we'll be able to take her out in the yard and let her roam freely, or either one of us will be able to really throw a ball and have her run the full area of the yard. We'll still take her out for a walk. We figure with the warmer weather coming, everyone will be walking their dogs and it will get busy. During the cooler months, the 8pm walk seems to work as no one is out then. She seems to love the windy days. She'll then be tuckered out by 9pm. We try to work out her energy that's she has held up during the day. 

As for her treats, well, she'll usually eat one, then save the others for the moment I walk in the door at the end of the day. She'll whip them up in the air and play with them, then begin munching on them. We give her Old Mother Hubbard.

We are thinking of getting a companion for her. At times she'll see her reflection in the fireplace glass doors and begin growling at herself. That's when we feel she needs a playmate other than ourselves.

I just make sure that before I leave for the day, I pet her and say I'll see her later. I know that she's heading to bed to sleep. There are days that I come home from work and she'll still be in the bedroom or just coming out of the bedroom from sleeping to greet me. Those are my signs that she was wiped out from the day (if it's daycare day the previous day) or we worked her out the evening before. Her whining and barking has diminished when I leave for work since we began taking her to daycare one day and to my mom's the other day. Then there are other days that she'll get into some minor mischief when we don't have as much time to attend to her. I've come home and found that she's chewed up my sneaker laces or shoes. She want our undivided attention at all times!!!


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## Jane

Lina, thanks for the link to the clear treat ball! 

I think my boys will do better with that one. They just aren't "getting" the concept of the soft kind of treat ball that you have to put in your mouth to get the treats to come out.

Cool!


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## DanielBMe

I just recently bought a Tricky Treat Ball for my guys. They just LOVE it! I put a couple of treats in and it literally takes them all day to get them out. Bogart walks around the house with the ball lol. Definitely get one, it will keep Luna active and working for hours.
http://www.omegapaw.com/TrickyTreatBall.html


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## marisoma

This thread got me thinking. Right now, I am home with Giotto. It's one of the reasons we got a puppy because someone would be home with him. However, I am going back to work full-time by the end of the year, likely by fall. During that time Giotto will be on his own while I am gone for the day. It's not so much a concern now since I am home, but it will be soon enough. I am worried about how he will be able to handle it. I don't know if there is a way to prepare him for this transition, but if there is I would like to get started on it soon. 

He is very much a velcro dog. He goes everywhere with us, usually with me. I even bring him in the car to run an errand. He's just always our shadow. We don't mind this, we even enjoy his company, but I worry that we are setting a bad example and only making him more clingy to us than he needs to be. I do leave him for little bits of time while I am cleaning or busy in the house, but he is usually whining or barking that entire time. I don't want him to do that for 8 hours a day while I am gone. He is only 4 months old now and will be a year when I go back to work, so maybe he'll be better adjusted by then. I am just thinking ahead and wondering if there is anything I can do to prepare him to handle this better when it happens.


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## Lina

Marisoma, you have to get Giotto used to being left alone and fast before he gets used to having you around 24/7. You should start this right away by leaving him alone for small increments of time and slowly increase that time away so that you can be gone 5 minutes or 3 hours and Giotto will be just fine. It sounds like he already has some separation anxiety. Kubrick had it bad. Here is an old post I wrote on separation anxiety that might help you:



> Here's a list of things that worked really well for me:
> 
> 1. Before you leave, ignore your puppy for 20 minutes. That means no eye contact and no touching. This shows him that he can be apart from you while you're home and be happy. It might be hard at first because he might beg for attention. He will stop doing this eventually, though.
> 
> 2. When you leave give him an extra special treat that he LOVES and ONLY gets when you are leaving home. Kubrick, for example, gets some boiled chicken and a piece of beef jerky. He gets so excited to get his treats, he's actually HAPPY that I'm leaving. You can also do this with a toy if you don't want to go the treat route. I now have a clear treat ball that I put jerky into that lets out treats as it rolls. It keeps Kubrick busy for 10 minutes or so so he doesn't notice that I'm gone. It's the only thing he will touch, he leaves his toys and chews alone while I'm gone, so you might find that to be the case.
> 
> 3. Leave a shirt or pillowcase that you've slept in for a week or so in the crate with him. This will give the puppy your scent and will help soothe him while you're gone.
> 
> 4. Leave the TV or radio on for background noise.
> 
> 5. When you leave, use a key word. I always said Be Good. This will help him associate this word with you coming back.
> 
> 6. When you come back, ignore him until he's completely calm. I know this is very hard, especially for the kids since they love to see an excited puppy. But it's better for him in the long run. By ignoring him until he's calm, you're showing him that it's OK for you to be out of the house, he doesn't need you around all the time and being calm gives him attention and love.
> 
> I hope some of these tips can help you. My vet and my trainer both told me to do these things and it helped Kubrick immensely! I haven't had him cry and/or bark when I leave in a really long time and you had to have seen what he was like before. He used to do the same thing, knock his water dish over, throw everything around and act very upset with lots of barking and crying.


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## Jane

Those are really great tips, Lina!

Lincoln never had separation anxiety - he is an independent soul.
Scout would have had it bad, but we had Lincoln to keep him company :biggrin1:


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## kelrobin

Lina, do you think that ignoring an excited puppy would work when someone comes to our house? Jackson goes crazy over someone new, and I'm trying to get him to calm down and sit (impossible with a 6 month old).

Joe, if it makes you feel any better, I work at home so I'm constantly nearby, and Jackson _still_ wants me to play a lot and tries to get attention which I can't always give him. We do have another dog, a big old lab who really helps keep him company - Jackson sits out in the yard with him on pretty days while I am in the house which helps. Some days I think I need doggy daycare even though I am right here! :bounce:


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## talemaker_havanese

Two from the same litter can be challenging and if you do not bond to each individually - they will rely on each other too much. This is a consideration when they get aged. I believe more than one is better. Hey, I have many. You can get arounds this by investing one on one time alone with each doing fun things. We have 6 havanese and I not only groom them daily and any visitors but also do snuggles, hugs and games with each one on one. It matters with multiple dogs. Yes, its easier as the have a playmate but they also need you too.

We also watch 'just havanese' for people in the Toronto area. It's not truly a business though we do charge but rather a home environment that has lots of safe play and walks. There is another lady in my area that does the same - just Havanese but also adds bolognese - and I believe small dogs into the equation.

Now I post this not to create business but rather to tell you that there must be other people that are crazy like us that adore the Havanese and do it from their home. They are bound to be cheaper and its bound to be safer as there are less dogs.

Keep at it and find the right place for you. If you can't afford it, and you dog is exhibiting signs of anxiety about staying at home, read my tips on leaving them at home' at http://talemakerHavanese.com <- in the right column halfway down is a tips block and its included there.

In my book, there is nothing like the havanese.


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## Lilysplash I

Luna reminds me of my Sadie!


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## Esperanita

Cuba is doing well during the day when I'm at work. He doesn't really cry when I leave and he plays during the day, eats his food and uses his potty pads. In fact, I think he has too much fun since I occasionally have to pick up poo from the floor. He gets so into his toys that he pushes them around in play and ends up pushing them into the potty pad causing poo to scatter. Well, at least my floor has never been so clean.

Cuba has a room of his own. I leave the lights and music on during the day. My biggest issue is teaching him the potty pads are not chew toys. I found that laying them down when he is not in the room helps. If he sees them as I snap them open, it is almost like he is a bull and I have a red cape in my hand. Cuba is 14 weeks today.


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## talemaker_havanese

Esperanita:

Happy 14 weeks to Cuba. You are dealing with a puppy and Havanese have a passion for paper. They will tear it into a million pieces. It's almost easier to get a potty system that soaks through but doesn't have paper. They are pricier but I know a couple of our puppy people who live in condo units find them a lifesaver and much better than the paper. 

Just a thought..


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## Esperanita

talemaker_havanese said:


> Esperanita:
> 
> Happy 14 weeks to Cuba. You are dealing with a puppy and Havanese have a passion for paper. They will tear it into a million pieces. It's almost easier to get a potty system that soaks through but doesn't have paper. They are pricier but I know a couple of our puppy people who live in condo units find them a lifesaver and much better than the paper.
> 
> Just a thought..


Thanks for the suggestion. I was thinking of liter training him, but I would really like for him to go outside. I might have to reconsider and have it only as a backup if I have to stay extra long at work or something. As for now, he seems to be progressing nicely, although I still have to keep him off my carpets. It seems like he has a hard time distinguishing between grass and carpet fibers 

He's actually been really good with other types of paper. I have not had any toilet paper issues, newspaper issues, etc. Although, you should see him trying to bring the Wall Street Journal in each morning. Maybe that is how his affinity to rip paper will start...

Hope


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## RikiDaisyDixie

*two havanese...*

I spent quite a bit of money and time with a trainer to help Riki with separation anxiety. She told me we could keep working on this or I could get another dog. I wasn't even working then.

Two havanese is a good combo. I have a boy and a girl. The days I work, I come home for lunch or my husband does. They love each other and are okay together...but they aren't ok alone.

Good luck.


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## Esperanita

Rikidaisy said:


> I spent quite a bit of money and time with a trainer to help Riki with separation anxiety. She told me we could keep working on this or I could get another dog. I wasn't even working then.
> 
> Two havanese is a good combo. I have a boy and a girl. The days I work, I come home for lunch or my husband does. They love each other and are okay together...but they aren't ok alone.
> 
> Good luck.


This might be a little off subject, but how did you decide on getting a boy and a girl? I'm already planning to get a second hav in February when Cuba is older and house trained. I thought I would get a girl because I have the perfect name , but would it be better to get another boy or does it not matter? I was going to get Cuba neutered, but after reading another discussion on the forum, it seems like the perceived health benefits are not really substantiated. Since he's a house dog, I'm not worried about puppies. If I do get a girl, though, then I would definitely have to do it...

Hope


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## Lina

Esperanita said:


> This might be a little off subject, but how did you decide on getting a boy and a girl? I'm already planning to get a second hav in February when Cuba is older and house trained. I thought I would get a girl because I have the perfect name , but would it be better to get another boy or does it not matter? *I was going to get Cuba neutered, but after reading another discussion on the forum, it seems like the perceived health benefits are not really substantiated. Since he's a house dog, I'm not worried about puppies. If I do get a girl, though, then I would definitely have to do it...
> *
> Hope


Never mind, Hope, I think I misread your post.

As far as your question about whether to get a girl or a boy you need to talk to your breeder about personality and getting personalities that mesh well. Girls tend to be more dominant so if you get a girl after the boy there's a good chance that she will dominate him. Is this okay with you or would you prefer your first boy to be dominant? These are some questions you need to ask yourself.


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## Me&2Girls

Hope, eventually dogs need to be neutered because the risk of cancer does go up with each passing year. Plus it keeps even a house dog safe from wanting to wander if a female in the neighborhood is in heat. So I think what you meant about not being worried about puppies is that Cuba doesn't get out.

As to a male or female the second time round, I've heard to get the opposite sex. But my first two dogs were males a few months apart in age and they lived long lives very happily together. Also you should have a female spayed by no later than the age of two to reduce her chance of mammary tumors and related problems. Plus it keeps neighboring dogs out of your yard or hanging out and whining.


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## RikiDaisyDixie

*My mentor, Sue Nelson*

Sue recommended with pairs, the male female combo works best. I have friends with two females, and two males. Both of mine are "fixed" so that isn't the issue.

They enjoy each other. He is alpha outdoors, she indoors.


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## Esperanita

Me&2Girls said:


> Hope, eventually dogs need to be neutered because the risk of cancer does go up with each passing year. Plus it keeps even a house dog safe from wanting to wander if a female in the neighborhood is in heat. So I think what you meant about not being worried about puppies is that Cuba doesn't get out.
> 
> As to a male or female the second time round, I've heard to get the opposite sex. But my first two dogs were males a few months apart in age and they lived long lives very happily together. Also you should have a female spayed by no later than the age of two to reduce her chance of mammary tumors and related problems. Plus it keeps neighboring dogs out of your yard or hanging out and whining.


I would definitely spay a girl because it does seem the probability of cancer is much higher. However, the study posted on the forum, done by a master thesis at Rutgers, essentially said the pros and cons of neutering were about the same...

On the positive side, neutering male dogs
• eliminates the small risk (probably <1%) of dying from testicular cancer
• reduces the risk of non-cancerous prostate disorders
• reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
• may possibly reduce the risk of diabetes (data inconclusive)

On the negative side, neutering male dogs
• if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis.
• increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism
• increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
• triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
• quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
• doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
• increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations


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## talemaker_havanese

Male unneutered dogs mark (so do females) when faced with competition. They also have protective territorial issues if no one is a strong leader in the family to correct. A dog that is not fixed can't go to a play center or most times boarded. Even if you are able to curtail the behavior as you are a strong leader, the dog when faced with a visitor will mark profusely everywhere. I know - I deal with it. It's not fun.

An unwanted tie can happen in a minute or less. Once tied, you can't separate.

It is wrong to allow a dog that is not fixed no matter what gender to be in an off leash area - to be taken out when in heat if you are not able to fully deal with the consequences.

The bottom line, it's a lot of work and the list of potential medical issues pros and cons for fixing and non fixing is not as great as perceived. We are talking about a generalization of possibilities that are not necessarily true. Dogs that aren't fixed can face serious health issues later in life as well.

You can always find reasons not to or do so. Do your research and decide what is best for you but if its to not fix, be responsible and be proactive with socialization. This will be difficult with a dog that's not fixed but critical. An under socialized dog that is not fixed can show serious territorial issues. 

Adding an addition is not a gender related issue unless the dog is not fixed. It is a personality trait issue. You would never mix two alpha assertive dogs together and it doesn't matter if they are males or females but you would mix two submissives or a balanced alpha and a submissive etc. This matters more than the gender unless of course you are dealing with procreation challenges.

The bottom line is if you do not fix, you need to be completely responsible and that means only socializing with the same gender if they are not fixed.

Just my 2 cents to get you to think of the possibilities and make up your own mind.


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## Esperanita

Thanks Talemaker for the reply. The socialization information is interesting and definitely something to consider. I am going o do a search on the forum, but something I wondered about is why do vets tell you to neuter at 6 months, but the Atlanta Humane Society will neuter at 3 months.

Hope


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## talemaker_havanese

Vets will tell you different times to fix. There is a school of thought that one should wait till their growth plates are done due to growth issues but there is also another that once a natural behavior solidifies - well it is difficult to be corrected. Dogs that have matured will mark and will also be on the prowl more - so to speak even if they don't have the equipment. Females can and do get territorial but for them, most of the marking can go away easier than a male even if fixed later but not always. It's that - ah - faint memory. heh

Many people get a dog fixed late - as in 4 years old and think that by doing so the marking will stop - the interest in the gals/guys to a high degree will stop - the territorial issues - she's mine will stop but rarely do they. It is a habit too often like getting up out of bed. You just do it. Fixing early on curtails it as it doesn't become such a learned behavior.

Every time a male comes over to visit or stay, I have to go through an introduction to eliminate any possibility of aggression due to territorial issues. An unfixed male in an environment of females will protect its turf and the only way you can curtail that is to fix them and/or you be the alpha and control the behavior.

It doesn't make your male 'bad' to protect its turf but its a natural behavior and hormones do kick in. If I wasn't using my male, life would be easy having him fixed. My females would not have to be separated during their heat (3 weeks) and they don't all happen at once.

Last night we had a male came over and our male went into the mode of protection. I corrected. I introduced one on one and life was grand but I am in charge and this dog went submissive. That one was easy but they all aren't but I do achieve play without aggression 100% of the time - some just are more intense work. I have never had an incident and my male is a charmer - a softie - a lovie etc but in a house full of females and hormones raging - well a natural instinct kicks in and it can be controlled but unless you are breeding - why put your male through such an emotional roller coaster?

I would like to think my male is better off and our bond is great due to this training and experiences. We have MANY dogs visit so he gets a lot of conditioning but life would be easier if he was fixed. That's just a fact. Emotionally it might be better for him.

See what we go through when we fall madly in love - we consider the entire package and strive to do what's best. It's like kids (we had 7) - you learn as you go and it never quite stops.

>>Darlah
http://talemakerhavanese.com


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