# Overnight in crate too long>



## Barney's Mom (Nov 24, 2006)

Hi everyone,

I am a new member to this forum....and could use some guidance with our "new" 19 month "rescue" Havanese. We have had Barney for almost 4 weeks-he is very "soft" in personality...not sure if he was abused, but rescue volunteer here in MN didn't think he was! He is very cautious and will not approach anyone without tons of hesitancy and he seems startled at sudden moves in side and outside of the house. 

We have never had small dogs...only goldens that were big and luberly! So, question for today is...can a small dog hold his urine for 8 hours in his crate overnight? Barney doesn't like his crate (located in our laundry room) and has to be "put" into it each time...I've tried yummy treats (liver, hot dogsl, etc with no success) - we go to bed around 10:30 p.m. and I get up to let him out between 6 and 6:15 A.M. each morning...but he barks every once in a while from midnight on....we will be traveling with him by car come Jan and wonder if he will make our trip intolerable in hotels and in vacation rental? I have a couple of months to continue to love, cuddle, begin some training and reenforce routines, in the hopes of making our trip pleasant for all 3 of us! Any input would be greatly appreciated. 

He is a sweet dog...allows our grandkids (ages 8-14) to pick him up and cuddle without showing any aggression, even though he won't "come" to them...when I offer him a treat, he either comes slowly or not at all...unless I take it to him...want to establish alpha role here pretty soon but have been told these tiny dogs need totally different techniques from larger breeds. He was supposed to be housetrained, but rescuer here in MN had a doggy door and we don't have one...so most of the time, if I am constantly on lookout for signs, I can get him outside to pee and poop, but every once in a while he just does his stuff inside and I don't seem to be able to catch him in the act often enough (I am 66 and don't move as quickly as I used to). Do thesee small dogs ever become reliable? He gets plenty of exercise running around outside every time we go out (which is many, many times each day)...snow will be falling soon up here and not sure how we will take to that many times outside at that point! 

Anyway, I apologize for the length of this note...I wrote one earlier and it didn't seem to make it to the forum...must have done something wrong. Help anyone?

Thanks, Marge


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

8 hours should be no problem. Puppies start sleeping that long in a crate at around 10 weeks. I think maybe the problem might be that he is in the laundry room and not sure about how long he will have to stay in there by himself. When we start training the pups to crates they stay in our bedroom with the crate on top of the dresser where they can see us in bed.

I don't think that small dogs require different techniques than any other dogs but a lot of people talk baby talk to the little ones and greet them differently than large dogs. They speak dog the same as any others. Havanese are unusually bright though and if they realize that they have done something that disappoints you then that's enough "punishment".


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Hi Barney's mom,

I am new to this forum and have a 5 months old havanese puppy named Bugsy. I also have two standard poodle, like you I always had large dogs. I find that potty training is a lot trickier for small breeds than for large ones. One of my standards was fully potty trained/house broken the very first day I got him. I just took him out to the back yard once and that was it. (he was 12 weeks) My standard female got #2 right aways (she was 10 weeks) and #1 took almost 2 weeks to become fully trained. Now my little Bug is quite a different story. I am very tuned into him and and have to take him out often, as he will often make mistaes on his own. #2 is not a problem at all for him, but #1 looks like it will take a while....sigh. Bugsy plays with an 18 months female who in her owner's words "is not reliable" yet. I've talked to a lot of Havanese breeders and they said that Havs were easy to train, but most Hav parents I've met all said that they weren't. 

Good luck to you.
Julia


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I have to say that mine were not a big challenge to train, although Havanese are my first dogs so I dont have a lot to compare to. I keep a pen, on a large piece of linolium in kitchen, with a crate attached to it. That is where the puppy goes for sleep, eating & I have papers or puppy pads (whichever they dont eat), so if there are accidents, it is easy to clean. The pups go in there when I cant watch them, or they need time away from their siblings, and while we are at work. I felt that it was good that I have an "obssessive" personality so I was constantly watching them for signals & praising like crazy when they went outside. Now they tell me when they need to go out and unless they are sick - NEVER go in the house. My first two were kept in the pen at night in the kitchen, but when I bring my new baby home in Jan, I hope to work on the crate in the bedroom, although my husband is not too happy with the idea. He likes his full night sleep so with a puppy in the kitchen they can go on the paper during the night, but I think that will just delay his training. We will see. Good luck!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I'm of the school that says they're easy to train. They're very intelligent but not good with mixed signals. How you say something is as much or more important than what you say. Just like Arab horses, who are very smart, once they learn how to do something one way, retraining is more work than correct training to start with. People tend to talk to small dogs differently than large dogs.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

I've talked to a lot of Havanese breeders and they said that Havs were easy to train, but most Hav parents I've met all said that they weren't.

Marge,
My personal feeling is if anyone has a dog at 18 months old that is not reliable, it is because the human hasn't done their part. All of mine have bee very easy to train. I have also found that with each new member, they learn from the other's quickly too, as to where the doggie door is and what is expected. Like Tom was referring too, CONSISTANCY is the key in my opinion, both with dogs and children. <grin>


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

HI Kathy so you live iin Sac. are you going to the show this weekend? Just thought I would ask I am going to go to theEuk. national in long beach but I am not showing since Yoda coat is so bad.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

susaneckert said:


> HI Kathy so you live iin Sac. are you going to the show this weekend? Just thought I would ask I am going to go to theEuk. national in long beach but I am not showing since Yoda coat is so bad.


Hi Susan,
I was at the show in Stockton on Sunday only. However, two of my pups finished this past weekend, one with a bang too. He got Winners Dog/Best of Winners/Best of Breed to finish him and then got a Group 4 at 9 months of age! I was thrilled. Then his litter sister won WB that same day and the got WB/BOS the next day to finish her.

I will be at the Eukanuba show also. I co-own Frankie, the #2 Havanese with Mary Lopez and Marilyn Vaughn so I will be rooting for him on Saturday! <grin> Hope to meet you while I am there.


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

How wonderful it sounds like you did great on your last show Congradulations. That would be nice to meet you at the show. I will prob. go up both days I am watching only . This will be the first show I have gone to for my own pleasure. I use to "Have" to go as a kid LOL so I know I will enjoy it alot more now since I am wanting to get in to showing with Yoda. I happen to get lucky and meet a person on line that has Yoda's breed Jerome he is a really helpful man he is giving me all the tips ect. So maybe in June or something I can start showing Yoda Im so excited about the show this weekend actually to see other Havanesers and Havanese in my area I heard of 2 havanese so this show be a real treat for me. Hope to see you at the Show Susan


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## Barney's Mom (Nov 24, 2006)

Hi to Kathy,

I couldn't agree with you more...unfortunately, Barney was extremely neglected until the 10th of October of this year - which is why we are so grateful to his original owners that made the decision to give him to the Havanese rescue org....so we, as his new owners, and after 4 weeks with us, we continue to be patient, vigilent and consistantly doing our best to provide direction and love to this little dog.

I welcome suggestions from anyone who has the time to share!

Marge


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

HI Marge just remember delicate hands and time time time and lots of Love Im sure you will do just fine. If you need any thing just email me or do a post I will be gone for the next couple of days but will be back on monday or when ever . 

HI Kathy I will be at the show so I hope to see you there. I wish I could bring Yoda that would be nice.We love to show him off a little his coat is coming along nicely. Have a safe trip tomarrow and be careful on the grape vine .They have been doing alot of road work out there.And the high winds to Susan


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Barney's mom, Please give details of what the behavior is that you want changed. Is the crate in the bedroom now? Does he whimper or whine??? etc., etc.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Barney's Mom said:


> Hi
> We have never had small dogs...only goldens that were big and luberly! So, question for today is...can a small dog hold his urine for 8 hours in his crate overnight? Barney doesn't like his crate (located in our laundry room) and has to be "put" into it each time...I've tried yummy treats (liver, hot dogsl, etc with no success) - we go to bed around 10:30 p.m. and I get up to let him out between 6 and 6:15 A.M. each morning...but he barks every once in a while from midnight on....we will be traveling with him by car come Jan and wonder if he will make our trip intolerable in hotels and in vacation rental? I have a couple of months to continue to love, cuddle, begin some training and reenforce routines, in the hopes of making our trip pleasant for all 3 of us! Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks, Marge


Hello Marge - I'm a Marj too 

Our Ricky was 9 wks. old when we got him mid-Sept. and at first the potty training went very well. I was going up and down the deck stairs in the back yard maybe 20x/day though! Sure, he peed in the kitchen now and then, but I was usually watching him non-stop - couldn't do anything around here during those first weeks! lol - and with the nice weather, it was easier to take him out often.

In Nov. we decided to bell train Ricky and allow him to eliminate on the deck because we had some snow/ice there and felt it was safer and much easier than having me get dressed and carefully carry him down icy steps! We did try a litter 'bin' out on the deck (a large plastic shallow bin filled with gravel like the kind he went on in the yard), and it worked like a charm for about 3 weeks... then Ricky decided it was NOT the place to go. We went back down to the grass or gravel area and that worked well again. But ..... the deck is what he uses now because of the colder temps.

There is a lot of info on bell training so won't go into it all right now if you're not interested.... if you'd like more info, I'll be glad to share what we do. 

Unfortunately, even at 6 mths. now, Ricky still pees in the house, but not every day. Some days it can be 2 or 3 times, other days ... nothing. Sigh.... I have found it to be a trying situation, but we try to be consistent and take him out on walks and play out front where he gets a good workout and elminates.

On Ricky's 5th night with us, we put the crate in our bedroom because I had spent two nights awake with him in the kitchen and wasn't up to doing that anymore. It has worked like a charm! We bring his crate up at night and he usually sleeps 6, 7 or more hours until he needs to pee and whimpers to be let out. The crate is brought back down and after he's done his business out back, in he goes for a longish nap from 2 to 4 more hours before I get up for good and give him breakfast.

Since day one, Ricky has enjoyed his crate because we started by giving him his meals in there. He's only assoc'd the crate with good things - other than a couple of times when we had to go out and he whimpered for all of 10 seconds. 

I only joined the forum now and found your post interesting - I wonder how things are going with your Hav nowadays... ? How was your Jan. trip, have you gone yet? Keep us posted!


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Hi Marj,

I am not Marge, but I also posted that when Bug was 5 months old training him to go #1 was a problem. Fast forward 1 1/2 months and I have to say that my diligence has paid off. Bugsy has been completely accident free since he turned 6 months. Something must have just clicked for him, because I honestly don't even watch for any signs anymore, it like he finally "got it". Of course I spent a lot of time training him to go "wee'-wee" and rewarded him with treats. Just keep working and he will get it.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

*Overnight in a crate*

Havanese are very different from large dogs .. They also seem to have potty challenges and you have to work it out . They are very smart dogs and they want to please you so they will learn . You can teach them to be potty trained on pee pee pads . It is not as easy as with a larger dog . They do seem to slip at times . 
I had a German shorthair - he was trained at 10 weeks and then we got a Havanese after he passed away ..
HAvanese dogs are very very social and they need to be near their pack and their owners . They do not like to be in a laundry room so far away . Try crating him in your bedroom . 
If this dog is a rescue he already has abdonement issues and isolating him is making it worse .. 
My dog Cosmo is 6 months and he sleeps through the night from 9.30-6.30am 
Make sure they drink most of their water during the day not too much after 7 pm 
They need the security of knowing they are part of the family . These dogs can be very portable but also it may depend on their temperment 
My first Havanese was great and we took him everyhere in a sherpa bag for short periods of time . He loved the car and he was happy just to go and to be with us . He was crate trained and never had accidents in the crate WE traveled by plane by car and we stayed in hotels and our condos .. I was able to establish a walking and potty schedule with him and he rarely had accidents .
Walking is key - they need exercise to eliminate .. 
Unfortunately he passed away this August . 
Cosmo our new dog is still a puppy and he continues to have challenges .. He does manage to sleep through the night and he goes potty first thing either outside or if the weather is too cold or rainy he will go on a training pad .
Be consistent and persistent and Good luck .. If at all possible let the dog be with you at night . They need the security and reassurance ..


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Kodi is 14 mos and is trained to the pee pad if he can't get out to go. Shelby, the new 14 wk old pup is sometimes trained to the pee pad, but doing really well. Thank goodness for the mild weather we are having. They go out before bedtime and I tell them to "go pee". Kodi does, an hopefully Shelby will start to understand as well. Kodi was about 9 mos old when he had his last accident in the house. He brought me to the den, where he peed, and I told him in a very stern tone that was not the place. He needed to use the peed pad, and I guess he understood, because he hasn't gone in the wrong spot since. They are very smart and do get very tuned in to what you say. Consistency ixs so important. Just like with kids!


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