# HELP!



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Hello all!

We've had very few "issues" with Tillie and overall she is amazing, BUT she does NOT liked to be bugged when she is trying to sleep. She has her crate, but she NEVER goes in it during the day on her own to take a nap, usually only when we leave and at night she goes in it just fine.
Well, my 9 yr old son likes to pet her and try to hug her when she is trying to sleep. We have told him numerous times to LEAVE her ALONE. That her growl is a warning and he needs to respect her and leave her be!
Well, about 5 minutes ago she was resting on the foot of my recliner and my son came up to pet her, she let out a very short growl and snapped at him, getting his EYE. thankfully he seems to be okay. but what the HECK!? I understand WHY she reacted this way, because too many times he doesn't respect her growls and continues to bug her, BUT with the snapping, what do I do!? How do I make it VERY clear to Tillie that this WILL not happen again. and make my son understand how serious this is?
HELP!!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeah Tammy this is something you might want to get help with ie. a behaviorist. Tillie has possibly become leary of your son. It's good you're trying to pay attention to the growl but it is vital to get Tillie on better terms with him. Keep in mind most dogs don't like hugs and some are sensitive to being disturbed when resting. If you watch for Tillie's signs and notice she is balking on his approach , it's time to call someone in. Once a bite has taken place, I always recommend getting someone in to give you some advice. It doesn't have to be extensive ,just someone to show you some d/c exercises and throw in some conditioning excercises. Please don't blame Tillie for this,. like you said ,your son has to respect her space .


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Thanks so much Dave! How do I go about finding someone to help?
Do you think her trainer at Pet Smart might have some ideas to help us?
In the meantime, while I am searching for a behaviorist, how do I treat the situation so it doesn't happen again, or what do I do if somehow it DOES happen again before we can get someone in to help?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

TilliesMom said:


> Thanks so much Dave! How do I go about finding someone to help?
> Do you think her trainer at Pet Smart might have some ideas to help us?
> In the meantime, while I am searching for a behaviorist, how do I treat the situation so it doesn't happen again, or what do I do if somehow it DOES happen again before we can get someone in to help?


Hi Tammy, no offence to Petsmart trainers, but you probably want someone experienced in this. type of behavior. I can help through the network of trainers . I know what to look for in general but it always has to be someone you're comfortable with. In the meantime, avoid any situations of surprise between Tillie and your son. If there is any sort of shyness on behalf of Tillie when your son comes near, tell him to avoid contact for now. Email me privately with your postal code and city .


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

I would check with your Vet or local SPCA for a referral as well


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Tammy, I am sorry sorry to hear this. I hope Dave's advice helps!


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear about the snap. I think some dogs are just trying to protect the one they love. Maybe tell your son that you are going to train Tilly - with his help - to make her know that he is the boss. Let him be the keeper of all treats and give her a 'tiny' one when she approaches him - and put him in charge of filling her bowl for meals. Tell him to ignore her till she learns he is boss with the goodies!! Maybe this will work for both!!


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I am so sorry to read this. Hav's love kids but they are still small dogs and children do not have the maturity to understand. Because I had a Lhasa and a shih Tzu when when my step grandkids were growing up and with my granddaughter now, we had a rule no touching the dogs when they are sleeping, and you can play only if they come to you. There was all the other things no kicking, no hitting, no picking them up. Lhasa's are known for their attitude (often not nice) even though Boo Boo has a very happy non nippy temperment, I was vigilant. If you think it would be a problem if your dog bit your child or your grandchild, imagine the fear if it bit the 'step grandchild' (a big fear for me). Things were not perfect, but the step grandkids reached maturity with out being bit by my dogs, and there were times when it was close. I hope you will be able to look back years from now and say we got through it, but it was close. Best of luck.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

thanks for the suggestions, we will try them all!


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

How old is your son? Our two older grandchildren aged 7 and 9 have both helped in the training, by this I mean training tricks so therefore give the dogs rewards,consiquently the pups get very excited when the children arrive.They are not so keen on our youngest grandson as he is only two and always wants to cuddle and hold them, also he is very noisy!!and can be unpredictable in his movements,so they are a little weary of him,although they love him at meal times as he always tries to share his food with them!I would say keep your son well away from Tillie whilst she is asleep [for the time being]But at the same time get him to do some simple training with her, just sit and stay, then your son can reward her and gain her respect by showing her he is the leader.I'm sure thing will sort themselves out,good luck.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

He is 9, but he has Aspergers, so he doesn't "read" people, or apparently DOGS very well. We started having him give her a treat every time he approaches her, which is nice and is working well, BUT my son has texture issues and doesn't LIKE to give her treats!? seriously. CHILD. sigh. So, I'm going to suggest maybe he can give her a small peice of cheese instead of a dog treat....


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I am so sorry that happened. It is strange after all this time. Are you sure Tillie is feeling okay? I hope it was just a one time thing and am glad your sons eye wasn't hurt.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Can you show your son in picture form,how to approach Tillie?Maybe a series of photos,of either yourself or your daughter.Cheese is a good idea,there must be some smooth textured treats out there.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> He is 9, but he has Aspergers, so he doesn't "read" people, or apparently DOGS very well. We started having him give her a treat every time he approaches her, which is nice and is working well, BUT my son has texture issues and doesn't LIKE to give her treats!? seriously. CHILD. sigh. So, I'm going to suggest maybe he can give her a small peice of cheese instead of a dog treat....


I have a "spectrum kid" and work with lots of families with others, so I'm familiar with the problems these kids can have. Most spectrum kids do best with "rules" that are straightforward and easy to remember. They also remember these rules best if they are paired with what they SHOULD do instead. For instance, "Never touch Tillie when she's sleeping. Instead, call her name from across the room. If she comes to you, you may play with her." or "Tillie doesn't really like hugs, and may nip if you surprise her. Instead, scratch her under her chin (or whatever)... she really likes that!"

Social stories can help a lot too. If your son has a BCBA who works with him at school, s/he should be able to help you with this. If not, check out Michele Garcia Winner's website for more info. Basically a social story is a story made up, with the child's help, that talks about the problematic behavior, and what the child should do instead. Depending on the child's ability level, they can read this over to themselves a number of times, or someone can read it to them. If he has the interest, you can get him to illustrate and color the story. If not, take some photos of him doing the RIGHT thing when approaching Tillie and put them in the book. Many spectrum kids are very visually oriented.

As far as treats are concerned, if it's the feel and/or smell of the moist treats, try Charlee Bears. They don't smell much, feel like a dry oyster cracker, and most dogs (for reasons I don't really understand) seem to love them. They are low in calories too. You might also start having him feed her all her meals, so that she starts to look to him as the "food person". With meals, he doesn't have to touch anything but the bowl.

I suspect if you can get him interacting with her better, her "problem behavior" may go away on its own. It really sounds like she is TRYING to tell him what she needs, and he just needs some help getting it. Some dogs don't mind being jumped all over and pummeled by kids... think most Labs. But there are LOTS of dogs who are just too sensitive to tolerate that behavior. In Tillie's case, she's also very small compared with even a 9 year old human, and she may just be feeling more and more defensive.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

thank you SO much Karen!! I really do think that it is my SON who needs to learn the rules and how to approach her properly. Not surprise her and NOT get in her face or take her TOYS away from her and not play fetch with them... ya. I just talked with the behaviorist Dave recommended and she also said that what we are doing (Nikolai giving the treats/feeding and not surprising her) is on the right track. She said she can't really give me "advice" without meeting her and our family. So, I am going to talk to my husband tonight and see if he wants to meet with her or if we are all on the same page regarding everything... so that this doesn't ever happen again and Tillie doesn't see my son as a "litter mate" ... I'll keep everyone posted and I'll try the ideas you suggested Karen! Thanks so much!


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Dr Ian Dunbar has a DVD for kids regarding "behaviors" around dogs. I wonder if that would help


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

TilliesMom said:


> thank you SO much Karen!! I really do think that it is my SON who needs to learn the rules and how to approach her properly. Not surprise her and NOT get in her face or take her TOYS away from her and not play fetch with them... ya. I just talked with the behaviorist Dave recommended and she also said that what we are doing (Nikolai giving the treats/feeding and not surprising her) is on the right track. She said she can't really give me "advice" without meeting her and our family. So, I am going to talk to my husband tonight and see if he wants to meet with her or if we are all on the same page regarding everything... so that this doesn't ever happen again and Tillie doesn't see my son as a "litter mate" ... I'll keep everyone posted and I'll try the ideas you suggested Karen! Thanks so much!


Yeah Tammy, what she said about not being able to give advice over the phone, is just being responsible by her. That is the number one rule with dog trainers is that when it comes to cases of aggression, it is not responsible to give advice without seeing the whole picture. It's not always as simple as it seems. It's a case of not only teaching your son, but also trying to change your dogs perception of him.. It's up to you but I strongly recommend having her come in.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Thanks Dave! we will be having her come, just not sure when yet... I need to talk to my husband and find a time when we are ALL home. LOL ummmmm... that doesn't happen very often!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

TilliesMom said:


> Thanks Dave! we will be having her come, just not sure when yet... I need to talk to my husband and find a time when we are ALL home. LOL ummmmm... that doesn't happen very often!


That would be the ideal situation. Great.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

This is what happened to Martha Stewart, she startled her dog and got hit. you heard about this right?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

gelbergirl said:


> This is what happened to Martha Stewart, she startled her dog and got hit. you heard about this right?


yep, it can happen to anyone. ANY dog can bite.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Yeah Tammy, what she said about not being able to give advice over the phone, is just being responsible by her. That is the number one rule with dog trainers is that when it comes to cases of aggression, it is not responsible to give advice without seeing the whole picture. It's not always as simple as it seems. It's a case of not only teaching your son, but also trying to change your dogs perception of him.. It's up to you but I strongly recommend having her come in.


Yeah, I wouldn't give advice on the dog part, but I can on the kid part. it's part of my real-life "day job".  She may well need some very specific help concerning how to change Tillie's perception of her son, but making sure her son is doing his part by interacting appropriately can only help, and you just can't work with spectrum kids the same way you do with NT (neurotypical) kids.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

krandall said:


> Yeah, I wouldn't give advice on the dog part, but I can on the kid part. it's part of my real-life "day job".  She may well need some very specific help concerning how to change Tillie's perception of her son, but making sure her son is doing his part by interacting appropriately can only help, and you just can't work with spectrum kids the same way you do with NT (neurotypical) kids.


For sure Karen.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Do you use communicate and print, with your son?Or do they use it in his school, they could easily set up a series of pictures to show him how to respond to Tillie.I also work with SN children.


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## marpars63 (Apr 16, 2011)

Your dog's reaction sounds just like the way Boo boo's started and we had the trainer fiasco. For a treat, how about a mini carrot? My dogs love them and they have no smell. Dave, do you have any trainer recommendations in Miami, FL?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

marpars63 said:


> Your dog's reaction sounds just like the way Boo boo's started and we had the trainer fiasco. For a treat, how about a mini carrot? My dogs love them and they have no smell. Dave, do you have any trainer recommendations in Miami, FL?


I need your zip code.


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## marpars63 (Apr 16, 2011)

33176


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

marpars63 said:


> 33176


Thanks , get back asap.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

sent you a private email.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Tammy, how are things going with Tillie? Is her behavior improving?


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