# Obedience Updates Anyone?



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Okay I thought since we have an agility thread, we should also have an obedience thread for anyone taking classes just for fun or competition, etc. And just to bounce training and questions off each other.

I found a class that is only about 15 mins from me! She is an experienced trainer who competes with non performance breeds- westies and bernese! A lot of her students never plan to compete rather they train for fun which I found as a surprised. Right now they are starting Utility training and these people have never even competed in rally. I really like her style.

And guess who I took.... Dora! I will eventually put Dasher in class there but in the beginning levels they do heeling exercises and I want Dash to heel like a show dog for now. 

I have to admit, Dora kind of freaked out. I think she thought I was taking her to the vet though. She was on my lap waiting for the previous class to end. She was shaking. I felt bad but I knew she just needed me to ask her to concentrate on some activities. It took her about a half hour to adjust. I just ignored her fear and it got better. She was happiest when we got out some jumps. She loves to jump and they called her the show off kid cause she would do the directed jump and then when I would walk back, she would run and take it again!

BTW, Dora is once again the little dog with 2 labs and a newf!

Okay so who is doing obedience training and how is it going?


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

I'm not doing rally or obedience classes right now, because if I was gone anymore nights the du would get a new wife! Meanwhile, I do think Posh would almost like it better.we seem to be in a bit of a funk lately with agility. She seems to think that running a course multiple times means she has done something wrong... What do you think Amanda?


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## siggie (Apr 19, 2008)

Good idea Amanda!

Toby and I went to our very first class on Saturday. I wanted to die the first 10 minutes. My super well-behaved boy was whining and barking. I think he wanted to meet and play with the other dogs and didn't understand why he couldn't. There's a good mix of dogs. Couple Labs, a Golden, a Doxie, an Aussie, a shi-tzu (looks like one anyway), and a chihuahua... 
Toby knows how to sit already and sits immediately waiting for further instruction when I have treats. She insisted I catch him off guard and not cue him w/ my body language, instead putting the treat to his nose and getting him to sit that way. She something about he need to learn to follow the food. Does that make sense to you guys? 

I have been walking him w/ the Gentle Leader Easy Walker harness so we won't pull and he's gotten great about staying at my side on a loose leash when he has it on, but he pulls when he's on a regular leash and collar. Of course the trainer wants him to walk w/o the harness. She's starting everyone giving the dogs the full 4-6 inches of the leash and working on loose walking. Is this going to send Toby the wrong message? I don't let him get ahead of me w/ the harness. 

Agility class starts at the end of the month so I'll be posting there too. I'm super excited about that. 
I hope he takes to both agility and obedience b/c I think it'd be fun to compete. He should get some initials after his name if Mommy is working on some for her name.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Amy- hmmm, maybe she is just getting bored with it? Like repeat behavior. Or maybe she really does associate having to do it again cause she is doing it wrong. Do you praise her differently the first and second times?

Siggie- sorry, not sure if that is your name? That is great! I was practicing the the drop on recall with Dora by doing drop with my voice. The new people in the class do it with a signal and I havent been doing that. Dora looked at me like I was crazy when I used her normal down signal. I try to go back and forth with most things but I learned Sunday, I keep forgetting that one.

One of the things I really learned with obedience, is most people who compete in the higher levels, train backwards. Like they train retreive before heeling. So while I can't do heeling with Dash, I think we are going to start playing with a dumbbell this week.

What am I going to do with Belle... it is almost to the point, I have to lock her in a room to train. She really can be such a brat but she can be brillant. She learned the drop on recall within 5 minutes. Dora it took quite awhile! So I might just take her to Dora's class and get her used to the area and eventually go back and forth with them.

Amanda


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## EstrellaVila (Nov 30, 2007)

I am enrolling Tito in a beginning obedience class in a nearby city, looking forward to getting my little man some manners. LOL. 

Story time: This is fully my bad, but it is HILARIOUS! Somewhere along the way Tito drank out of my glass. Then DH let him do it, and so forth. Now whenever we have a drink he will just stick his face right in it and help himself, milk, juice, water, beer... you name it. It is bad, but incredibly hilarious at the same time. If we are drinking something from straws, he figured out the drink is coming out of the straw and tries to bite on it to make the drink come out. 

He should probably learn leave it ... what do you think? ound:


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## siggie (Apr 19, 2008)

Amanda - My name is Ani.  I didn't think it would be confusing when I picked my username (just went w/ the usual), not realizing the group here is a more friendly and intimate group than other forums. 
That's interesting. Any reason why they tend to do it backwards? 
Toby retrieves and I've taught him both drop it and give it. Sometimes he gets excited and drops, but will pick it up and put it in my hand when I say "give it." I don't think that's the drop you meant though.  Do you mean giving a down command after they've been recalled? 

What's the problem with Belle? Is she too stubborn to listen sometimes? 


Estrella - :jaw: That's funny, but I'm a little grossed out at the same time. I've seen the garbage Toby picks up, so I can't imagine drinking out of the same glass. Does he only do that to your family or guests too?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Ani- I think the harder activities they start teaching in advance cause it takes a lot more time. I didn't know and I have done things backwards with Dora and the higher levels take a lot more time to teach and absorb.

Oh when I say drop, i mean the drop on recall. Here is a video in the spring from Belle first learning. This is an exercise in open. You call the dog, the judge gives you a signal and you yell drop, the dog quickly goes down and then the judge gives you a signal to call your dog, and the dog does a formal call and sits in front of you. Here Belle is just starting to get it.





While it seems simple, they start anticipating and not getting it. Here Dora goes so slow cause she knows I am going to ask her to do a down. Then she tries to get close to me, that is how she always has been, she doesn't like working away from me and so we always have that battle. She is very soft too so it hard to show her what I want without her not wanting to play the game.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Estrella- there are many havs on this forum that are poo eaters... I have to ask now, what about Tito? :brushteeth:


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*good trainer!*

Is someone giving you a treat too Amanda! Good trainer! They are doing very well.

Once a guy told me to give it up, that Havanese cannot be trained. He told me their heads are too small. Well their bodies are rather small as well. I think his head was rather small...he made me laugh. He had a lab and said, see how big my dog's head is, that is so he can learn. GEEEZ! See how big your dog is Sir!

And then he showed me how the cranium of a havanese is small in proportion to the labs. Holy cow!

Other people have said, why on earth are you training those adorable dogs. I'd just spoil them. Well, good trained dogs have more freedom!

And yours are adorable and trained...and get cookies!


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Amanda,
It was fun watching the videos.
You are all doing so well.

Thanks,


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Thanks you two, we still have a ways to go. 

Linda- I was pretty much taking classes for fun. A lot of the trainers I was taking classes with were very serious trainers. I started taking classes cause Dora walked behind me on a leash. It wasn't fun to go for a walk.

I put Dora into her first obedience competition at a big trial. I shouldn't have but hey, I love my dog! Well Dora kicked butt. I wore jeweled flats that clicked when I walked so we might have done better if I didn't do that  But Dora took second place in a giant class. It went GSD, Dora, Sheltie, GSD. Now that is when my competitive drive kicks in! Now my lil girl has eve more of a competitive drive. Isabelle has never not taken first place, when she qualifies! I won't tell you how many times she hasn't qualfied though...

But right now, you all know the top toy dog in obedience is a havanese!


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Great thread Amanda, even though I do not do obedience I love reading and watching how others are doing.

Ani, one of the things that caught my attention in your post was how your trainer wants Toby to follow the food and not your body language? I found that odd, I was trained just the opposite. And if you do plan on going forward with agility you WANT Toby to be able to read your body, your body movements are what help him run a course more accurate. Amanda does both obedience and agility so she should be able to give you some great hints like being able to work your dog on both left and right side.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Amanda, Dora is soo much like Posh. This looks and sounds exactly like Posh at agility class the second or third time we go through a course, even if the course is different, it's like she waits and goes slowly. Any advice?!


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## EstrellaVila (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh guys, give me more credit than that!! LOL!! 

First Tito doesn't eat poo. Second, he only does steals drinks when we are on our bed (not table, couch, etc) after he has eaten his dinner. I dont know what his deal is. We dont have guests as I live with my parents, and I doubt if we did they would join us on our bed for any drinking (not that kind of house!).

Its just funny since you could be sitting there and next thing you know he will jump on the bed and help himself to your ice water. Maybe I will invest in some sippy cups for extra protection.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Amy- I need to be the one asking advice on this! Dora is just very easy going in nature and she is always like that. Going slow and absorbing things. She gets it done just at her pace. However, you drop her in the atmosphere of an agility trial and she forgets stays... ironically! What I generally try to do for Dora is psych her up and not feed her the day of classes until after the class. Even if it is 5pm, she is much more energetic when she is hungry. I also reward when she is more interested. If she flakes off, I will do something else or get another dog. The later one works the best!

Amy- one more thing. I was told with obedience and agility, you don't have to start anythign with a sit stay and with a slow dog, that helps.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

ama0722 said:


> If she flakes off, I will do something else or get another dog. The later one works the best!


Wonderful advice...I can tell the dh we have to get another hav so Posh can do better at agility ! Actually, I sort of "hinted" to my eight year old son, who trained with Posh and me this summer, that if he was still into agility and obedience that he could start doing some junior handling, and maybe we could get another dog in a bit so we'd have one for each of us to work with. I've told myself I really can't get another wee one until Violet has gone to kindergarten and I'm suffering from severe empty nest syndrome. Well, guess what, this is her last year of Preschool! 

We have class tonight, so I'll let you know what works, maybe if I get desperate Mom will let me run her sheltie mix with Posh in her crate.


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## siggie (Apr 19, 2008)

Amanda - Got it now! Haha... Thanks for the videos.



Leeann said:


> Ani, one of the things that caught my attention in your post was how your trainer wants Toby to follow the food and not your body language? I found that odd, I was trained just the opposite. And if you do plan on going forward with agility you WANT Toby to be able to read your body, your body movements are what help him run a course more accurate. Amanda does both obedience and agility so she should be able to give you some great hints like being able to work your dog on both left and right side.


Interesting point Leeann. I have nooo idea what that's about. Maybe it'll become clear in the next classes. I'm wondering if she's insisting on it so I can guide him w/ a treat into a down?

--------

I tried working on loose leash walking Toby today and I had to do some deep breathing not to completely lose my patience. He just doesn't get it. He's so much better on the easy walker harness, but w/ his collar and leash, he just doesn't get it. He'll run ahead and pull, so I'll stop like we were told to do and he'll stand there or get up on back legs, eventually give up and sit. That loosens the leash just enough, so I take a step forward and he tries to run ahead again and I have to stop again. We just don't get anywhere and he thinks it's some game where he takes a few steps and then sits so we can take another few steps. No progress at all! :frusty: There's got to be an easier way! I don't care about loose leash walking, can't I skip to heel? Not that I know how to teach that either...


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## siggie (Apr 19, 2008)

Loose leash has been coming along. We signed up for a rally O mini course (4 weeks) which starts this Saturday. The trainer told me not to worry about heel, that we'd work on it the class. I'm excited about rally... it looks fun!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Rally is a lot of fun. We occasionally get our rally signs and doodle with them. Yeah, heeling is lot of work... I personally hate it! I just like doing the fun stuff when it comes to rally but a lot of the scoring is in between the signs!

Dora still is not taking classes. I haven't taken her back to the training center as I am usually in a rush on Sunday nights but I hope to get her there in the next month just to sit and watch and realize it is a fun place. Crazy thing is Belle acts totally opposite when we go, she gets energetic and zoomies!


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## siggie (Apr 19, 2008)

Amanda, does Belle like doing Obedience or does she just excited about getting there?


Rally went okay last week. We jumped right into a course and we got through it. Would have been a DQ for tight lead the whole time, but he did each station fine. 

It took some leading to get the "sides" and "go arounds". How do I teach those? I've been trying side at home combining w/ some fronts which he knows. He usually follows the treat but won't align his body right so I move him say side again, mark it, and treat. Will he eventually get it this way? 

I'm going to try and catch the trainer a few minutes before class to ask her about teaching heel.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Ani- It all depends on her mood that day! Some days she gets really excited to work, other days she wants nothing to do with work but will do some for treats. She is definitely a dog that I better have treats or a toy where she can see them. She does tend to like rally a bit more cause I can always tell her she is doing something right.

For finishes, does he know touch? I teach my dogs all the touch command and use my hand with touch to shape what they want to do. So for instance, I would have the dog in front of me, then I would say touch and put my hand down by right ankle, then behind me, switch to my other hand and say touch over there. I shape a lot of rally exercises with touch actually. Luring with a treat is fine too. You just have to eventually take the treat away which becomes a bit more challenging for some dogs.

I think most of rally eventually comes down to heeling. The exercises individually are fun to do and a lot of people concentrate on those and forget the heeling in between. Including me with Dasher as a puppy at National. He walked like show dog 3 feet in front of me the entire time  Hard to get him to do things when he was that far ahead!


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## siggie (Apr 19, 2008)

ama0722 said:


> Ani- It all depends on her mood that day! Some days she gets really excited to work, other days she wants nothing to do with work but will do some for treats. She is definitely a dog that I better have treats or a toy where she can see them. She does tend to like rally a bit more cause I can always tell her she is doing something right.
> 
> For finishes, does he know touch? I teach my dogs all the touch command and use my hand with touch to shape what they want to do. So for instance, I would have the dog in front of me, then I would say touch and put my hand down by right ankle, then behind me, switch to my other hand and say touch over there. I shape a lot of rally exercises with touch actually. Luring with a treat is fine too. You just have to eventually take the treat away which becomes a bit more challenging for some dogs.
> 
> I think most of rally eventually comes down to heeling. The exercises individually are fun to do and a lot of people concentrate on those and forget the heeling in between. Including me with Dasher as a puppy at National. He walked like show dog 3 feet in front of me the entire time  Hard to get him to do things when he was that far ahead!


Oooh! He does know touch! I'll try that, thanks!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

*Dashie is an obedience boy!*

So I have obedience to talk about for awhile  I enrolled Dasher in an obedience class last Nov and kind of forgot. This is a competitive obedience class that the goal is for us to get our CD's this fall. I haven't been working any obedience with Dasher. I really think he is better suited for agiity cause he is a little too wild and excited about training for obedience still but he is very young. Dash doesnt know sitting on the lead. He does know to sit on a recall but overall he did really well. His recall is insanely fast. What can I say he loves his mama. He does need some work heeling on lead as we haven't taught that formally but I used a cookie and am getting him used to me. He has great concentration on me. But he did his sits and downs perfectly. For a whole 3 mins  It was pretty cute to watch him between all the big dogs- the smallest dog beside Dash is a lab. But that is likely how it is going to be in the show ring too so that is fine and it is great he is socialized to this type of environment with big dogs.

Anyone else doing obedience now that the holdiays are over?


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## Salsa's Mom (Mar 18, 2008)

We're in a Novice I class right now and when we finish with that class we're going to start Rally. I've never done any dog training before so we're going very slow.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Debby that is great  I am also glad they are doing novice before rally. I learned kind of the hard way. Thinking I was ready for Rally as Dora knew all the signs but there was all the heeling in between signs that we didn't practice! I do love Rally though


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Cali and I are taking an intermediate class at the local Petsmart. I am doing it to keep her socialized to other dogs and to strengthen her bond with me.

It's not the greatest class, but when we finish, I may go on to a better quality class and aim for a CD.

Meanwhile since Chico and I are doing the trick class and I'm committed to READ and visiting at an assisted living, I feel like I've literally gone to the dogs!
See what happens when your kids grow up and you retire from your job.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

*Bull in a China Shop Recall*

The other night I spent time teaching Dasher come and sit are two things he needs to do on one command. With his conformation training and agility, he never sat so this has been a bit of a process but he is quickly getting it. We still need to polish him up and get him straight but I love his energy. He LOVES the word come as you can see


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Ha ha! I love Dasher's energy too.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Oh I cannot wait. We are working on home training and really doing so well, but we don't start formal obedience training until March (the next opening available). She can sit, stay, down, working on leave it, come and leash training (OMG...leash, not going so well). Reading and watching these links, makes me have so much to look forward to.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

So we are in week 4 of our training class session. I haven't worked as much on obedience as I should but he just picks it up when we do short training sessions. Last week we went to class and we did practice at home during the week in little spurts and we get to class and his brain was fried! He really forgot silly things and just couldn't put together what we were doing. I think it didn't help we took a conformation class Friday at the same building. Like sitting when I stop automatically- nope had no clue what I was talking about like we have never done that. Then on the recall when he ran to me and stood and I waited. I often do this for him to get a chance to figure out why I haven't said yes, he would lay down or auto finish each time. He just really had a goofy off week but he was still very enthusiastic and wiling to try doing every trick he knew. 

Well this week, I didn't practice much at all. Then I went away with my husband came home picked him up and took him to class. The little guy was completely on! Doing everything he was suppose to!!! Stand for exam- he didn't try to walk away with the people when they leave (Dashers thought, you just rubbed me, keep it up!), he did auto sits, he ran in and sat on the recall on his own. Maybe on my overnight trip, he read the obedience rule book? When one of my classmates teased us for being a show off, I had to confess that we haven't been working as a team- one of the teammates was lazy!

But I am thinking I might throw him in a rally trial in the spring to gauge our training


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

ama0722 said:


> The other night I spent time teaching Dasher come and sit are two things he needs to do on one command. With his conformation training and agility, he never sat so this has been a bit of a process but he is quickly getting it. We still need to polish him up and get him straight but I love his energy. He LOVES the word come as you can see
> 
> YouTube - DashCome


Too cute, I LOVE the sssslllliiiiddddeeee he does just before he stops at your feet!


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Amanda, Dasher is doing great! He has great enthusiasm too. I love to watch that boy of yours.


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## n2scouting (Dec 9, 2008)

*Obidience update*

My wife Melissa and I took Quincy to obidience class at petsmart. The class runs every saturday for 8 weeks. The first class we used a clicker then a reward. We then moved to the watch me command with clicker and reward. I have been working with Quincy everyday to reinforce what we have learned so far. I threw in sit just for fun. We can hardly wait until the next class. This video was taken at the first class as the dogs greeted each other and the instructor was introducing himself. Quincy is 5 months old as is his class mate Noah, a Great Pyrenees.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

That is so great that Quincy is getting good interaction from a big dog breed. Dasher's friend in obedience class is a newfoundland too. Copper weighs 136lbs but Dash still thinks she is sexy! She is a bit dangerous when she first comes into class as she is very excited and she isn't as aware of her body as Dash is but about 5 mins later Dasher is the one to do the most damage jumping on her to try to get her mom's cookies.

Jeanne- it is a lot easier with a dog with enthusiasm, let me tell you! Dora has always been slow especially when we had to phase out the treats. Belle always had it but it would quickly change to enthusiasm to many other things and never quite came back to me or obedience. It is nice to work with a dog that would pick me over anything else


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

I've signed Tess up for an obedience class starting in March. I considered doing just a small dog class but decided she really needs socialization with all size dogs. I'm not as concerned about her learning commands (we've been working on that at home and it's coming along) but I would like her to get more comfortable with dogs and people. It's a six week course and I suspect it may take her 4 of those not to be frozen in fear. Fortunately I can repeat this course as many times as I want with her, at no additional charge.

Amanda, I had to laugh at Dash's mad dash and slide on recall. Recall is one of the few times Tess goes at full speed --- just cracks me up.

I've also signed Cody up for an advanced class. I'd like to start doing some agility but he definitely needs stronger basic skills.

I took them both to the dog park at about 8:00 last night - we were the only ones there so I was able to work on recall with both and keeping Cody at my side (off leash) during a crazy walk/jog/run. 

I'm trying to determine if Tess is partially deaf (vet said she may have damage to her ear drums from untreated ear infections when in the puppy mill) or if she just decides when she's going to respond to me.

Amanda, I'm not clear on how the touch command works to shape behavior? I'm trying the touch command to teach Cody to weave in & out of my legs as I walk. Is it the same principle when trying to teach coming around and sitting next to you for example?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Jill- woo hoo! You know something about the training club here bothers Dora. She HATES it here! I am not sure if she thinks it is like the vet or what. But I have done is taken her to sit in the crate during Dash or Belle's classes. She has made little strides but she acts like herself when I finally get the leash out to go home. Everyone there who knows me laughs cause Dash and Belle love the place and I can barely put their leash on when getting them out of the car cause they are so excited. So I think you are setting yourself up to do well if you take it in small strides. Also I think if my dog can do 60% of what he does at home in class that is great. Distractions are everything when it comes down to it. 

As to touch, are you using it to finish him in the finish after recall? I am actually working on this with Dash right now. In rally, you can completely use your hands, in obedience you only get a small hand signal or a word. So what I am doing is Dash is in front of me. And I want him to finish to my left side. So I take my left hand and step back with left leg at the same time. Since he is going to have to get further back to sit next to me. And I spin him around using my hand. Does that make sense? I will look and see if I have an old instruction sheet. Eventually you phase out your step and do a less exaggerated hand signal. When he starts to get it (he is at this stage now) I am using a word. For me me, it is here. Unfortunately, Dash gets so excited he isn't finishing well. Another thing you want to do is not always do this with recall- as Dash showed last week, he was finishing automatically. He knows the exercise and it is easier if he just goes around me and sit. But they are two separate exercises in obedience.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Amanda, I think that makes sense - thanks. I'll give it a try with Cody. I'm not currently using touch to finish the recall. In fact I'm not sure there's a finish to our recall at all - they both sit when they get to me (I think) but not due to anything we've worked on. I'll add that to my list. 

I considered taking Tess with me to Cody's class also & letting her sit in the cage where she can see us but the other thing I'd like to work on is that she's never been without Cody in the year she's lived with me - including going to the vets/groomers/etc. so I'm thinking it would be best if I leave her at home for the 2 hours of Cody's class to get used to that. 

I'd like both dogs to be able to get their CGC. At this point, neither would qualify - for opposite reasons - Tess because she's too timid and Cody because he's too exuburant (had to work to come up with a a nice word for his wild behavior!)


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