# Agressive Behavior that is not puppy nipping



## BBGELTZ (Apr 3, 2013)

This is my first Havanese. Cisco is 15 weeks old. My hands and arms look like they have gone thru a meat grinder. I am trying to assert myself as the alpha dog but with no success. Just trying to place him on his back only seems to escalate his agressive biting. He seems to be in such a rage that nothing seems to distract him. Dripping blood everywhere, I eventually get him into his kennel. I leave him in there for a 5-10 minute time out while I tend to my wounds. This does seem to calm him down. I will be having him neutered.

I am a senior citizen and do have problems with any prolonged holding. This makes it hard to do a marathon testing of wills. I have a 15 year old Lhasa apso, Sara Lee, who would also like a break from this unacceptable agressive behavior. 

I wanted a loving little lap dog but I am fearing I may have made a mistake in getting Cisco. I need help with this problem child!

I don't want to give the impression that Cisco is nothing but a raging bull. Most of the time he is a smart, playful puppy that I love having around.


----------



## RitaandRiley (Feb 27, 2012)

Please stop trying to put him on his back. That's been proven to be ineffective and seems to be getting you hurt in the meantime. Do you have appropriate chew toys to give him when he's in his biting frenzy? I'm hoping Dave will chime in, he's the expert!


----------



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

WOW, you need HELP ASAP before your sweet puppy is traumatized and you have some serious training issues!! PLEASE google Ian Dunbar and attempt to forget the whole alpha thing and don't read anything else by Ceasar Milan ... it sounds like your puppy is under stress and possibly doesn't understand what is happening. IF you are bloody it has gone WAY to far!! At the first SIGN of a nip IGNORE your puppy. turn your back on him, walk away from him, put him in his crate. 
Hopefully our resident 'experts' will chime in SOON!!


----------



## RitaandRiley (Feb 27, 2012)

Can you call your breeder for advice or is Cisco from a pet store? Pups from the pet store usually don't learn acceptable behavior as well as pups that stay longer with their Moms and litter mates. They require a lot more patience. Havanese are very sensitive dogs and need more patient and gentle handling.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeah forget about anything intimidating, . Something tells me you need help fast. Normally nipping in puppies can be handled by owners with the right methods but you sound desperate and in need of some dog friendly methods. I strongly suggest a trainer to give you some insight. If you want help finding one, let me know privately with your zip code.


----------



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

These puppies have LOTs of energy. They need exercise and interaction to burn the energy. Only after they have spent the energy can you expect to enjoy lap time. They won't always be like this, but the little ones need lots of play time. If they dont' burn off the energy with play, this is what you can expect. They are taught their manners a lot by their Mother a few weeks after they have been weaned when their teeth came out. It takes Mom a few weeks to dry up, so she can interact with the babies without them being like feeding pirahnas after her, and teach them their manners. Some puppies miss this, and then it takes an experienced hand.

Negative reinforcement will only work against you. Please find some help.


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Teething puppies have very sore gums and biting on things helps them feel better, and most puppies play by biting or mouthing. They are very energetic and rambunctious. You need a good trainer and quickly. In the meantime, stop rolling him over and instead, yelp loudly and leave the puppy whenever he starts to nip. Make sure he has plenty of toys to chew on. This is what other puppies do to say the playing is too rough. It is very rare that a puppy really tries to bite, but that may be because you are rolling him over. A puppy has needle sharp teeth so any pressure can scratch the skin. Once I was actually bit by a biggish jack Russell puppy and that HURT. I was helping to clip his nails and he sank his teeth into my hand. I was bleeding and most of my hand got a deep bruise. Good luck and try out some of the suggestions.


----------



## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Please let us know how it is going, too. And don't hesitate to write with more questions.


----------



## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi! In your case with a young puppy you do not need to use the cesar milan techniques. I would do what the others have suggested and use a combination of screams when he nips you (dont touch him, just scream and turn your back), lots of chew toys (kong with peanut butter) and play fetch with him to get him to burn off some of that energy. You wont get that nice lap dog for awhile because he's a pup, but he will be a fun sweetheart if you encourage the positive and can wear him out some. When he gets crazy the best thing to do is get some treats and try to train him to sit or do something. 

I have a friend who does pug rescue and she has had to use some of the cesar techniques in consultation with a professional trainer on older dogs with severe aggression. These were last chance dogs. This is a different situation than with a hav pup. Your little guy is just a crazy puppy and if you can change your style he will be more controllable. Can you go to a puppy class in your area? 

I have a hav boy and he is loaded with energy! He responds best to positive reinforcement. I have never put him on his back (although he rolls in front of us sometimes!) but he has an AMAZING amount of energy. I can take him on a long walk and he gets home and still runs around the house! But he loves training and when he starts getting too wild I'll bring out the dog treats and we'll have a fun session of sits, downs, and I'll throw treats in his crate. 

You will get through this and people on here have a ton of great advice!


----------



## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Also with our girl, I have noticed 2 times when she gets out of whack. She either has to potty or needs a nap, sometimes nothing more than 15 minutes time out in her crate. Just calmly as possibly put her there with a couple of chew toys. This had been working for us. Most times just putting her down when she is nipping at our arms/hands and ignoring works, when it doesn't she gets a brief time out. Standing still like a tree and ignoring her has greatly diminished her nipping at our feet and pants legs.


----------



## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

atsilvers27 said:


> yelp loudly and leave the puppy whenever he starts to nip. Make sure he has plenty of toys to chew on. This is what other puppies do to say the playing is too rough.


This really does work. You have to make the yelp high-pitched like he makes when you accidentally stepped on his tail. He should pause and look up at you with that cute huh? look. Then while he is distracted, try to give him a chew toy. If he still is piranha puppy, the ignoring and jail time will have come into play.

Is he in a training class yet?


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Here is a good video clip for how to stop puppy nipping:


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SJ1998 said:


> Hi! In your case with a young puppy you do not need to use the cesar milan techniques. I would do what the others have suggested and use a combination of screams when he nips you (dont touch him, just scream and turn your back), lots of chew toys (kong with peanut butter) and play fetch with him to get him to burn off some of that energy. You wont get that nice lap dog for awhile because he's a pup, but he will be a fun sweetheart if you encourage the positive and can wear him out some. When he gets crazy the best thing to do is get some treats and try to train him to sit or do something.
> 
> I have a friend who does pug rescue and she has had to use some of the cesar techniques in consultation with a professional trainer on older dogs with severe aggression. These were last chance dogs. This is a different situation than with a hav pup. Your little guy is just a crazy puppy and if you can change your style he will be more controllable. Can you go to a puppy class in your area?


As far as I'm concerned, there is NO good reason to roll a dog, or use many of CM's other coercive methods. At best, you get a shut down dog who is bottling up his emotions... a bomb waiting to go off at some later time. There are many positive-based methods for working with reactive dogs and fearful dogs. Almost all "aggression" is resource guarding, or reactive or fear-based, regardless of how it looks to the untrained eye. The only dogs who don't fall into these categories are the vanishingly few who have a screw loose... usually because they are poorly bred. (like Springer Spaniels with Springer Rage Syndrome)

Flipping a fearful dog and holding them down does nothing to promote a healthy trusting relationship between the dog and handler, and can precipitate a serious bite.

If you can't handle your dog, find a good POSITIVE BASED trainer, who does NOT use aversive techniques such flipping, choking, shocking, yanking, spraying... you name it. There are scientifically PROVEN kinder and gentler ways to teach your dog all he needs to know.


----------



## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

krandall said:


> As far as I'm concerned, there is NO good reason to roll a dog, or use many of CM's other coercive methods. At best, you get a shut down dog who is bottling up his emotions... a bomb waiting to go off at some later time. There are many positive-based methods for working with reactive dogs and fearful dogs. Almost all "aggression" is resource guarding, or reactive or fear-based, regardless of how it looks to the untrained eye. The only dogs who don't fall into these categories are the vanishingly few who have a screw loose... usually because they are poorly bred. (like Springer Spaniels with Springer Rage Syndrome)
> 
> Flipping a fearful dog and holding them down does nothing to promote a healthy trusting relationship between the dog and handler, and can precipitate a serious bite.
> 
> If you can't handle your dog, find a good POSITIVE BASED trainer, who does NOT use aversive techniques such flipping, choking, shocking, yanking, spraying... you name it. There are scientifically PROVEN kinder and gentler ways to teach your dog all he needs to know.


You must be a dog trainer! I agree, I would not put a dog on its back...and I dont believe in the spray bottles, dropping the crate up and down, etc. Especially with any puppy.

I did mention the situation with my friend...who is not a cesar follower...she and other trainers could not get the dog under control... but found someone who could. To be fair, i dont know exactly what "milan style" techniques they used on the biting pug, but whatever the guy did worked. She had to keep the dog because he cant be rehomed with his history (five dogs in that house!). He's doing well so that is the most important thing.

Now if you really want to go out of your mind, you should see the new dog owner across the street from me. He sends his puppy to doggie boot camp. When the dog is home, he has it OFF THE LEASH and gets visibly angry when the dog trots off next door to roll in the dirt (next door there is a home under construction so lots of dirt, cant blame the dog he is having a great time!). The whole thing is kind of sickening. We got our hav about a month after him and have followed a completely different approach. I have to avoid him or i am going to say something.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Tom King said:


> These puppies have LOTs of energy. They need exercise and interaction to burn the energy. Only after they have spent the energy can you expect to enjoy lap time. They won't always be like this, but the little ones need lots of play time. If they dont' burn off the energy with play, this is what you can expect. They are taught their manners a lot by their Mother a few weeks after they have been weaned when their teeth came out. It takes Mom a few weeks to dry up, so she can interact with the babies without them being like feeding pirahnas after her, and teach them their manners. Some puppies miss this, and then it takes an experienced hand.
> 
> Negative reinforcement will only work against you. Please find some help.


I agree with what you're saying Tom ,my only comment is about your reference to negative reinforcement. If you're referring to alpha rolling the puppy, generally this falls under the catagory of positive punishment, IF AND ONLY IF, the behavior is reduced. In this case that didn't seem to happen, which makes it nothing more than abuse. Yes please get some advice from a good trainer.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Keep in mind,as far as "aggression",. other than predation, the rest, from the perspective of the "aggressor" is a defensive reaction to a perceived threat.


----------



## Chere (May 22, 2009)

This is a very young little guy; I don't see that the original poster has responded yet to the comments offering help but I hope she does see this soon and can back off a bit with the puppy. I've had lots of puppies and those little needle teeth can easily draw blood and especially on elderly, thinner skin. I'd suggest, in addition to the other things mentioned, lots of short walks (he's too young to be able to do a really long walk) and plenty of chew toys for those aching gums (I'm pretty sure he is teething). I am really concerned about the puppy and his owner; she sounds like she really wants to help him but just doesn't know how.


----------



## rogersmom (Dec 31, 2012)

I have an 8 month old Havanese puppy who had a nipping problem, despite providing him with every toy I could find. I am also older and had lots of little cuts on my hands. Our obedience class instructor told me to make the ouch noise and turn around but it didn't help. He would nip the back of my legs! Then the instructor told me to take him by the collar and put him in his crate. This helped so much. She told me to think of him as a 3 y/o who needed a nap. I still give him some kibble after I put him in there, b/c the instructor told me to always treat him when he goes into his crate so that he will love it. He does love his crate and goes in there on his own and takes naps and sleeps there at night. He is a great puppy and is better behaved every day. I hope this helps you.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

rogersmom said:


> I have an 8 month old Havanese puppy who had a nipping problem, despite providing him with every toy I could find. I am also older and had lots of little cuts on my hands. Our obedience class instructor told me to make the ouch noise and turn around but it didn't help. He would nip the back of my legs! Then the instructor told me to take him by the collar and put him in his crate. This helped so much. She told me to think of him as a 3 y/o who needed a nap. I still give him some kibble after I put him in there, b/c the instructor told me to always treat him when he goes into his crate so that he will love it. He does love his crate and goes in there on his own and takes naps and sleeps there at night. He is a great puppy and is better behaved every day. I hope this helps you.


You've got a good trainer who is helping you manage the situation AND teach your pup better manners at the same time. Good for you. And welcome to the forum!


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

rogersmom said:


> I have an 8 month old Havanese puppy who had a nipping problem, despite providing him with every toy I could find. I am also older and had lots of little cuts on my hands. Our obedience class instructor told me to make the ouch noise and turn around but it didn't help. He would nip the back of my legs! Then the instructor told me to take him by the collar and put him in his crate. This helped so much. She told me to think of him as a 3 y/o who needed a nap. I still give him some kibble after I put him in there, b/c the instructor told me to always treat him when he goes into his crate so that he will love it. He does love his crate and goes in there on his own and takes naps and sleeps there at night. He is a great puppy and is better behaved every day. I hope this helps you.


I also agree you have a good trainer. The part of ignoring will work, but not necessariy right away. You have to be patient and consistant before this can be extinguished. A time out can also be benefitial, along with redirecting with a treat. Not to worry about accidentally "rewarding" with the treat, as you have already used negative punishment hopefully, by removing your attention. The crate and treat are just a method of redirecting. Welcome and koodos on the trainer too.


----------



## rogersmom (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks for the positive feedback. Our trainer was so helpful. I had never "crate trained" a dog before. I thought that was all about house training. I have found that crate training is one of the most helpful things I have learned with this puppy.


----------



## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

I, too, wish BBGeltz would respond as I am concerned. Some initial responses were a bit harsh and hopefully that did not scare her away. Perhaps, she returned then puppy thinking, it may have been the best for both. Whatever, I do hope she found some help.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

swaye said:


> I, too, wish BBGeltz would respond as I am concerned. Some initial responses were a bit harsh and hopefully that did not scare her away. Perhaps, she returned then puppy thinking, it may have been the best for both. Whatever, I do hope she found some help.


I actually looked back over the initial posts, and I don't think they were harsh. Puppies are defenseless baby animals, and should not be subject to abuse, even if it is unintentional. (as I'm SURE it was in this case) I certainly hope that she either got competent training help, or re-homed the puppy. If the puppy came from a reputable breeder, there was probably a clause in the contract saying that the puppy had to be returned to them if there was a problem anyway.


----------



## Susmckee (18 d ago)

I have a 10 month male Havanese who has become very aggressive. He has bitten me 3 times in 3 weeks. Last night...Christmas eve was bad. He was relaxing in a chair and I went over to give him love. His pretend bone was there so I picked it up and said "want me to hold your bone so you can chew on the end."No reaction when I held it to his mouth so I left it and went to scratch behind his left ear. He attacked me biting almost through the tendon on my right wrist! He had found a small orange peel and was laying on it. I didn't know. I cried because it hurt so much and bleeding! I am 72 years old and have lost all trust in him. I love him dearly but love without trust is not a fun relationship...it is terrifying! I know I can't keep Keever but what do I do? Had dogs since I was 2! Never experienced anything like this!!!! HELP🙏😭


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

This is clear resource guarding, and it does not sound like you are reading situations well right now. While resource guarding in dogs of this age can be modified, it is not something to be done without the help of an experienced behaviorist. As you have already seen, a dog with this kind of problem can hurt you badly.

In the mean time, He should not have ANY food or chews outside of his crate, and you should not touch him or approach him when he has either. You have not mentioned if he resource guards anything else, but if he does, also be very cautious around these things.

If you decide you cannot keep him, first contact your breeder. Any reputable breeder will want to take him back and be involved in his retraining/rehoming. If he came from a less than reputable source, contact HRI and explain the problem to them. They have very experienced fosters who will put the time into rehabbing him before finding a home for him that will be able to handle him.


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

This has been a very helpful post for me and Sydney as well. Hope it helps the original poster.


----------

