# Some Things Just Aren't Meant to Be



## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Just wanted you all to know that Tori and Spunky couldn't seem to manage to get things worked out between them. After giving them 3 weeks together and still having daily "fights" we decided it was best for him to find a different forever home. So, that cute, sweet, feisty little thing is now back receiving Jan's TLC. We're disappointed it didn't work out, but we feel we did the right thing for all concerned.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

:hug:


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

:grouphug:Sorry to hear that:grouphug:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I am WAY behind on threads here from the holidays, I had no idea you had a new puppy, but Leslie, :grouphug:, you are 110% right, some things are just not meant to be and it takes alot of wisdom and courage to realize these things and make things right. Some dogs just do not get along with certain other dogs for whatever reason, I know Gucci dislikes a few of my friends' dogs (one in particular she bullies like crazy to the point of embarrassment!), and its not like I can make her like every single dog she meets..

But I could not spend every single day breaking up fights and resolving conflict, either, You are doing the right thing. :kiss:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Leslie,
Hugs, I know how bad you wanted it and how hard you tried and I am sorry it didn't happen :hug:

Amanda


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

I'm so sorry Leslie...{{{{{}}}}. I know you tried so hard.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Leslie, I'm sorry it didn't work out. It takes a strong person to know when to give something up. :hug:


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

:hug: Leslie. I know how hard this was for you but I really think you made the right decision for both Tori and this little boy.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

i wrote this to Leslie, but I want to mention it here too. We almost gave Cash back. He seemed to be torturing Jasper. But, DH put his foot down and said "this isn't a pair of shoes you can just return" I was very hurt,but saw his point too. I love Cash to pieces and he and Jasper have found a way to co-exist and even play from time to time and I do think they love eachother now. But I have often wondered if they both would have been happier dogs if they were better suited to each other. If Cash had a real playmate and Jasper had a submissive little girl he could protect. 

So I applaud you Leslie. It was not an easy thing to do. But I think you could tell that it wasn't meant to be.


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## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Leslie
I'm sorry! My two previous maltese never got along. They learned to coexist and tolerate eachother over the years, but they never ever played together and couldn't seem to enjoy a friendly relationship. It just seemed they weren't compatible!

It was very unselfish of you to make that decision Leslie. I know you though long and hard about it and I'm sure it was not easy. But both pups will be happier in the long run. Maybe you will find a new special friend for Tori in the future. I'm sure Jan will find Spunky a great forever home too.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

*Leslie, you are so courageous and you know how much I support you in your decision. Even in the best of circumstances, I must say integrating the second dog, the puppy, is much harder than I expected.  Our puppy is a very easy-going, happy-go-lucky guy, but rather than happily co-exist, Biscuit is jealous and wants to play-bite him all day long, will not share anything, etc. Since the idea was to make Biscuit happy, it is certainly frustrating. Hopefully it will be worked out/outgrown. Since we are now so bonded to the puppy , there's no going back. But I don't like the change I see in poor Biscuit.

Sorry, this is not about me, but meant to illustrate the complexity of these relationships and the way the dynamic totally changes when bringing a new puppy into the mix. I think on the Forum we do romanticize this a bit and maybe not talk about the reality enough? In your case the personalities simply couldn't co-exist and you have done what is best for everyone. I know you gave it your all, Leslie, and I so admire you! Hugs to you , and more hugs to Tori. amy xoxo*


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

:hug:


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

What a sweetheart you are to make such a hard decision.

The little guy will find his forever home and it will be wonderful.

That is how we got Sissy. She was sold and before she picked Sissy up
the lady fell and broke her hip and asked the breeder to keep her for a while.
Then she called back and said it wouldn't be right for her to take her while
recovering and released Sissy. We found her the next day.

What a blessing Sissy has been to us and I know your little guy will find
the right mix for him, too.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh Leslie, I'm so sorry. Hugs to you.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Amy R. said:


> *Leslie, you are so courageous and you know how much I support you in your decision. Even in the best of circumstances, I must say integrating the second dog, the puppy, is much harder than I expected.  Our puppy is a very easy-going, happy-go-lucky guy, but rather than happily co-exist, Biscuit is jealous and wants to play-bite him all day long, will not share anything, etc. Since the idea was to make Biscuit happy, it is certainly frustrating. Hopefully it will be worked out/outgrown. Since we are now so bonded to the puppy , there's no going back. But I don't like the change I see in poor Biscuit.
> 
> Sorry, this is not about me, but meant to illustrate the complexity of these relationships and the way the dynamic totally changes when bringing a new puppy into the mix. I think on the Forum we do romanticize this a bit and maybe not talk about the reality enough? In your case the personalities simply couldn't co-exist and you have done what is best for everyone. I know you gave it your all, Leslie, and I so admire you! Hugs to you , and more hugs to Tori. amy xoxo*


Amy, that is so true, the 'more the merrier' is romanticized here but there are so many dynamics involved, and it isn't always a cakewalk, but I think there comes to a point when the situation is causing us more grief than happiness (and I'm talking about everyone involved, unhappy dogs as well) that it is most sensible to regress back to everyone's comfort zone. I know it wouldn't be easy to do, but Leslie, it just shows how very much you love them both to want them both happy in their forever homes. :kiss:


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## Salsa's Mom (Mar 18, 2008)

Leslie, I'm so sorry it didn't work out, but I think you made the right decision. I'm sure Tori will be much happier, harmony will return to your home and Spunky will find just the right family. :hug:


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Leslie-You're so good to put the welfare of both dogs before your own wishes. I too would love to add another but it's my kids that don't want to. They think it will change Scooter and are worried about that. Big decision.

Hugs to you.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Thumperlove said:


> Amy, that is so true, the 'more the merrier' is romanticized here but there are so many dynamics involved, and it isn't always a cakewalk,


 Amen! I couldn't agree with this more.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Leslie, I'm so sorry it didn't work out and applaud you for making this very difficult decision.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Awww...Leslie, so sorry to hear that. How are you doing? I know that must have been a very difficult decision for you.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Sorry to hear it didn't work out Leslie. You are obviously so caring and want the best for all, a very selfless act.

Actually my biggest concern with adding another havanese, besides my husband, is Posh. I really want to do all I can to ensure it's a good match for her. I've even considered, when and if the time comes, having her help choose the puppy. I've noticed that she does choose pups she feels she can play with, and although she's doesn't pick on dogs, she does act aloof around some. It's kind of amazing to watch how they pick "their friends" in this intuitive way. She also has a "thing" for goldens, and I really don't know where that came from as her breeder has only havanese and a couple of tibetan terriers. We haven't had any good experiences in particular with golden retrievers, but she is ALWAYS interested in them. Maybe it's from a past life?! Ha!

Anyway, life is interesting...and I know Spunky will find his perfect match. Big hugs to you and Tori.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

*You made a brave decision*

Leslie,

I too am sorry that it didn't work out, but you get lots of kudos for trying your best.
Maybe someday the right companion Hav for your family and Tori will come along. 
Or, you may decide that Tori is fine as an "only". 
In the meantime, you can enjoy Tori, knowing that you made the right decision for her and Spunky too.


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## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

*Leslie,*

*I am sorry it didn't work out. Perhaps Tori needs to pick her out a puppy like Kona did. Brooks little boy. I know he (the Puppy) didn't live long but he and Kona sure did hit it off. Sooo there is hope I guess it just has to be Tories decision. :hug:*


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww....................... Hugs to you!


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## hedygs (May 23, 2007)

:hug:


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> you are 110% right, some things are just not meant to be and it takes alot of wisdom and courage to realize these things and make things right. Some dogs just do not get along with certain other dogs for whatever reason,


Kara well said...

Leslie sending you lots of :grouphug::grouphug:, hope you are ok


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

What more can I say, Leslie? You made a tough choice and thankfully, Jan took Spunky back home with her. I'm not worried about him finding a home, the right one just for him. Tori will find her playmate and it may be soon or might take a while, but you will know. 

I think it's great that you sharing this with us all because no, it's not always rosy, adding a new puppy. I think the best thing we did was add Sammy as an older pup to Ricky while Ricky was still a pup. It just happened that way and though there were a few days of adjustment and fear on Sammy's part (poor little guy didn't know what to make of boisterous Ricky!), within days they were best pals and the play sessions were fun for everyone. It could have been a terrible match though and we would have had to consider giving him back. It happens! 

(((hugs))) my dear and do please keep us updated on little Tori, with loads of pictures of course. :biggrin1:


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## Mizell26 (Aug 2, 2008)

Sorry it did not work out for you. Missy made a good point I believe. I would not want my dogs to just be able to co-exist with one another. I want them to be like family with one another...


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Mizell26 said:


> Sorry it did not work out for you. Missy made a good point I believe. I would not want my dogs to just be able to co-exist with one another. I want them to be like family with one another...


Tammy, the boys are more than fine now...it just took 2 years. LOL. And all I need to make them both the happiest pups on the planet is a little submissive girl who loves to play!!! LOL.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Leslie,
What a hard decision, but the best one for all of you, (including Spunky,) I'm sure! And, even though you put in an incredible amount of work into the little guy, just think of the blessing his new family will receive because of that!

It must be very hard, and the past weeks must have been so discouraging. I'm glad you have let us all know. This is a good reminder that it isn't always better to add a second or third dog. Sometimes yes. But, sometimes just one is good, too. I'm glad to know that.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

:hug:


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## imamurph (Apr 15, 2008)

Leslie...

No doubt it was a very hard decision, but we are all behind you!!!:hug::grouphug::hug:


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## danak (Jun 17, 2007)

Leslie you did such a difficult thing. I admire your wisedom.
Thumperlove-you said it perfectly.

hugs Leslie

Dana


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

:hug: to you, Leslie! I'm sorry it didn't work out, and I know you really tried. I hope you won't give up on looking for a second Hav, if that is what you want. It really can work out well, depending on how the two "fit" together


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Leslie, I'm sorry things didn't work out with Spunky. I'm sure it was a terribly difficult decision to make.  Sometimes things just don't work out the way we plan no matter how much we want it to work. :hug:


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Leslie--my heart goes out to you. I know you always do what is best for your dogs. Some dogs probably do best as only dogs.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Leslie, I'm sorry it didn't work out. But you did the right thing. You would only want a second hav if it made Tori happier. But that just wasn't the case. 

I was seriously considering a second Havanese until my back got so much worse. Plus, I have some other medical considerations that made the timing difficult. But even though Maddie loves to play with other Havanese, I found that frequent playdates and trips to the small dog park satisfies that need. She has a blast playing, then settles down into her routine with a close bond with me. So it kind of works out to be the best of both worlds. That might work well with Tori also. In any case, I'm sorry it didn't work out.:hug:


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## judith (Dec 15, 2006)

leslie, i am sorry i didn't work out, i am sure you gave it your all. judy


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Bless your heart...*

A hug to you...


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## earfax (Mar 24, 2008)

Leslie

Im sorry it did not work out


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

You all are beyond wonderful! :grouphug: Yes, it was a VERY difficult decision to make and one I hope none of you are ever faced with. Part of what made it so hard is that Spunky's a "licker and a lover". He was just delightful and so much fun, for us. Unfortunately, his exuberance for life was "over the top", as far as Tori was concerned. Almost every play session ended up in a fight  She was definitely having a hard time and I felt it just wasn't fair to her, or him (not to mention the toll it was taking on our nerves) I know he'll find a great forever home.

Tori went quickly back to her old routine after he left and seems to be fine. When I spoke to the vet about it, he said sending him back was probably the best thing for both of them. He said that although they may eventually be able to coexist, they may never truly get along well. And there's *no way* I want to live life like that.... Now, after reading all of your supportive words, I'm thinking I did the right thing and feel much better about the decision:hug:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Leslie,
I was talking to my husband about this and he actually made a good point. We are really only 2 and 2. Belle just ignored Dora (hey way better than beating her up) when she came to our house for a few months. They never wrestle but they sleep together, cuddle each other, once in awhile chase each other. They occasionally squabble but no real fights. Belle also accepted Dash right away which beyond shocked me. Just last night she decided to it was time for bitey face and grabbed Dasher's leg while he was sleeping. She bites and Dash takes it, when he starts to bite back, game over. 

But we have actually had 2 other dogs in our home that Belle did not accept period. One- the recent addition of Autumn. Every time Autumn tried to misbehave (and that includes acting like a dog!) Belle was trying to correct her. We knew it was only a matter of time where Autumn would say that isn't okay. But we had another Havanese in our home for fostering that Belle never gave into. She would grab his throat and be down right nasty to him. So with my rose colored glasses, I didn't think our additions have been hard but I needed the realist to remind me what really goes on and things don't always just work out. Cause if they did I would be up to 5 dogs right now!

Give Tori a few baby carrots and some hugs from me 

Amanda


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Sorry to hear things did not work out. I agree that it would not have been fair for both the dogs. I am sure Spunky will find a loving forever home. Good foresight of you to see all of this, despite how hard it may have been. We all want our fur babies to be happy for the rest of their lives. I would assume that good breeders would also be supportive, as they only want the best possible homes for the puppies they bring into this world.

:grouphug: to all of you.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

I don't know how you took it that long. When he came back here, he walked in and started humping every dog in sight. My dogs told him he'd be dinner if he didn't mend his little ways so 2 hours later he was back to his sweet old self, no more humping and a mild mannered little guy. I thought 2 hours of that was a lot much less the time you put in!!


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

whitBmom said:


> I am sure Spunky will find a loving forever home. .


He has one, _another_ doctor. What are the odds of 3 different doctors in 3 different areas of Texas in 3 different fields of medicine wanting a havanese all of a sudden? We've had him back a while now and have had time to make sure he's ok from the changes he's had and I asked his new owner to hold off a few days to take him even though he's fine. I've known this man for years and adore him. He comes up here all the time so we'll get to see them. :whoo:


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Jan, I am so glad that he has found a new home so quickly. I know if was so hard for Leslie to make the decision, even though it was the best for both Tori and him.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Leslie,

I know that must be breaking your heart, but it took a lot of courage. You did the right thing!
Gina


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Leslie-
You know you had my support either way...I know it was difficult for you,but all things happen for a reason they say. Hugs to you,your family,and Tori.

Jan,
I'm so happy to read Spunky found a new home already! I'm not really surprised as he sure is a cutie!

One day Leslie I hope you can add another hav like you want too...maybe this little guy just wasn't the perfect fit. From what Jan said it sounds like he got extra "spunky" and became kind of a "spit fire rebel " on the trip....stinker! :becky:


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

:rockon: 
I know what a hard decision that was for you Leslie, but as usual you did good girl! It sounds like it all turned out a win-win :hug:
Carole
xxoox


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I was interested to read about how Tori is doing now. I wondered if she'd miss him once he was gone. So glad things are doing well, now. That was a long time of trying to adjust! 

And, Spunky has a new, excellent home, already! Great. The new owner needs to send a word of thanks for all the hard puppy training Leslie and Tori put into Spunky! Ha!


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Laurief said:


> Jan, I am so glad that he has found a new home so quickly. I know if was so hard for Leslie to make the decision, even though it was the best for both Tori and him.


It was very hard for her and that's a shame. It was pretty hard here too and if I could have, I would have flown out there to see if I could help. That was the first time I had heard of a sweet puppy turning into a little bugger and there were lots of tears and sleepless nights everywhere.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Leslie, what a roller coaster ride! I'm so happy to read everything turned out just fine and you made the absolute right decision. Here's still hoping Tori will get a sibling one day that suits her better. :hug:


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Leslie, as you get farther away from the decision in time, and all the emotions involved, it will seem even wiser. You absolutely did the right thing.  It wasn't a good fit with Tori. I know Jan understands and I'm so sorry to hear how hard it was on both of you. Both such good people !!

The first week or 10 days with Heath I told the breeder several times he would have to go back if the crazy barking non-stop which the neighbors were complaining about didn't stop. Like Jan, she was very surprised at his transformation fronm sweetie-pie into devil puppy. She thought he would settle down into his mellow self and she was right. Thank goodness. But he is a far less dominant puppy than Spunky.

He and Biscuit are still working it out. Biscuit wants only to play-fight with him, but now I am letting them just do it, cause Heath is bigger and holds his own, and after they get tired, they lie down together and chew. Progress.

My dogsitter has a cute little Hav she cares for who does that humping thing and must always be dominant and it is really disconcerting.

Anyway, you know I can totally relate and I know you did what's best for all of you!


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## danak (Jun 17, 2007)

Jan you made something very real for me in this case. I would read that survey about paying full price, which would mean getting a dog from a reputable breeder or paying less if possible. Given this case wasn't about money, it was about the reputable breeder part. Now I see what a "reputable breeder" means for sure. You made that very real for me. I would never waiver again. I really admire that you live by your values and walk your talk.

Leslie I can only imagine how hard a decision this was and you did what was right on your end.

I am forever gripping to people I know about the lack of values I see nowaday. Well I sure found it here. The good of the dogs came first. 

I'm a proud reader. Hope I haven't rambled too much!

Danak


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Danak, no worries, I am chief rambler here. ound:

But seriously, you are so right about the caliber of people on this Forum. Very well said!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I agree with Amy, the more time you put between this, the more it will seem/feel right and meant to be.

Hugs,
Kara


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

danak said:


> Jan you made something very real for me in this case. I would read that survey about paying full price, which would mean getting a dog from a reputable breeder or paying less if possible. Given this case wasn't about money, it was about the reputable breeder part. Now I see what a "reputable breeder" means for sure. You made that very real for me. I would never waiver again. I really admire that you live by your values and walk your talk.
> Danak


Thanks Danak.
Rerun (we renamed him since he isn't a "Spunky" here) was going to go to a doctor that lived south of me, but his mom was diagnosed with a serious cancer and all of his time is going to be spent with her so that's not the home for a puppy. I'm glad I wanted to hang on to him for a while after he came home to give him some stability. I would have gone nuts with him in such an emotional atmosphere and too much alone time. The up side of it is that a gal who bought one of the other puppies from the litter is also a doctor and she deals with cancer every day so I put them in touch with each other and maybe he can get some help from her.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Wow Jan, what a turn of events. Sometimes things are just meant to be. I know things will end up good for all concerned. And, I sure agree with Dana about the breeder thing.
Carole


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