# Anyone know of these breeders?



## Happy2hav

Hello all,
I've been reading through posts for about one month now but this is my first time posting. We live in NJ and are looking for our first havanese. Does anyone have recommendations for breeders in the area that will have pups within the next month or so? 
I've got a few names
Harlequin Havanese and Ross' grand havanese....
I'm learning a lot as I read but would love some more advice.
just from reading each website I feel I'm getting more educated. I just learned that there is a more American (larger) havanese and a European type (smaller). This is a big decision for us. I am learning to request CERF and OFA but the harlequin website makes some good arguments for good breeders not always having this done. 

Thanks.


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## krandall

Happy2hav said:


> Hello all,
> I've been reading through posts for about one month now but this is my first time posting. We live in NJ and are looking for our first havanese. Does anyone have recommendations for breeders in the area that will have pups within the next month or so?
> I've got a few names
> Harlequin Havanese and Ross' grand havanese....
> I'm learning a lot as I read but would love some more advice.
> just from reading each website I feel I'm getting more educated. I just learned that there is a more American (larger) havanese and a European type (smaller). This is a big decision for us. I am learning to request CERF and OFA but the harlequin website makes some good arguments for good breeders not always having this done.
> 
> Thanks.


Personally, I wouldn't choose either of these breeders. None of the Ross' Havanese breeding stock have their championships, and I believe it is important that breeders contine to challenge themselves to breed to the standard. They don't say anything about health testing, so that's a question you'd have to ask too.

As far as the Harlequin site is concerned, I would not consider any breeder who doesn't TEST (NOT "vet check"!!!) their breeding stock. This breeder has lots of justification and rationalization for their decision not to health thest their stock, but, IMO, it's all excuses. If you care about producing quality puppies, you health test. Period.

As far as "european" or "american" type is concerned, there are so many European lines in the U.S. and so many American lines in Europe that that's not a realistic distinction. American Havanese are NOT supposed to be 20 lb dogs, and few breeeders who ARE BREEDING TO THE STANDARD are producing dogs of this size. Do some Havanese go over the standard? Yes. But there are also Havanese below the size standard. In both cases, these might be lovely pets, but they shouldn't be used as breeding stock.

There are NO guarantees in terms of size. Kodi is at the very top of the standard, and both his parents are right within the "preferred" size range. (and, his grandsire on one side and his great grand sire on the other side is a European dog, BTW) Likewise, a pair that are in the middle of the size range can have ap puppy that is exceptionally small. It happens. But you should avoid people who ar purposely breeding undersized Havanese. These very small dogs often have liver shunts and other health problems.


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## tootle

Check out the folks on this site. If they don't have pups, they can help you find a good breeder who does.
http://havanese.org/breeder-ref/69
http://havanese.org/hcapupclass.html


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## lfung5

I'd keep looking.....

Delaware Valley Havanese club is the local Havanese club in your area. They have a breeder directory on their site. Be careful!


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## atsilvers27

krandall said:


> Personally, I wouldn't choose either of these breeders. None of the Ross' Havanese breeding stock have their championships, and I believe it is important that breeders contine to challenge themselves to breed to the standard. They don't say anything about health testing, so that's a question you'd have to ask too.
> 
> As far as the Harlequin site is concerned, I would not consider any breeder who doesn't TEST (NOT "vet check"!!!) their breeding stock. This breeder has lots of justification and rationalization for their decision not to health thest their stock, but, IMO, it's all excuses. If you care about producing quality puppies, you health test. Period.
> 
> As far as "european" or "american" type is concerned, there are so many European lines in the U.S. and so many American lines in Europe that that's not a realistic distinction. American Havanese are NOT supposed to be 20 lb dogs, and few breeeders who ARE BREEDING TO THE STANDARD are producing dogs of this size. Do some Havanese go over the standard? Yes. But there are also Havanese below the size standard. In both cases, these might be lovely pets, but they shouldn't be used as breeding stock.
> 
> There are NO guarantees in terms of size. Kodi is at the very top of the standard, and both his parents are right within the "preferred" size range. (and, his grandsire on one side and his great grand sire on the other side is a European dog, BTW) Likewise, a pair that are in the middle of the size range can have ap puppy that is exceptionally small. It happens. But you should avoid people who ar purposely breeding undersized Havanese. These very small dogs often have liver shunts and other health problems.


Yes, thank you Karen. If I could put my thoughts together intelligently, it would be what you said. When I am evaluating a breeder's website, the first thing I look at is how the dogs are presented. The dogs pictures should either be show wins, professional photos, or at least the breeder making an effort to present the dog clean, neat and happy. Breeding dogs should come across as prized specimens, not pets used to make puppies.

Another red flag, purposefully breeding small for breed instead of overall package. There are many nice smaller Havanese used for breeding, but not because they are small but because the overall package is great and the dog happens to be on the smaller side. One of the breeders had several 7 lbs dogs for the purpose of breeding smaller Havanese and marketing them. This could lead to health problems for the breeder down the road.


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## krandall

atsilvers27 said:


> Another red flag, purposefully breeding small for breed instead of overall package. There are many nice smaller Havanese used for breeding, but not because they are small but because the overall package is great and the dog happens to be on the smaller side. One of the breeders had several 7 lbs dogs for the purpose of breeding smaller Havanese and marketing them. This could lead to health problems for the breeder down the road.


I agree completely. I have a friend with an adorable 8 lb bitch who is currently raising her first litter. She is tiny, but that's NOT why my friend chose to breed her. She also has her Grand Championship, all her health testing AND Agility titles. She really is the "whole package", just petite. And she was bred to a mid-sized male, not another little one.


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## CacheHavs

It has been said before, and I will say it again. Please DONOT give out personal information, and please don't recommend certain breeders. We are here to help educate, not sell puppies. 

The best thing we can all do is to help educate and help guide, in the end it has to be the person questioning to take the info they receive to make their own decisions. IMO it is OK to tell someone what they may see as red flags, but please don't recommend this breeder or that breeder. Thank you.


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## krandall

Hi Heather, I'm sorry, but I don't know who said what wrong in this thread. I thought that all we did was mention possible red flags. (I said I wouldn't buy a dog from someone who...) but that, to me is a personal opinion. I wasn't saying what someone else should or shouldn't do. So I'm a bit puzzled by your response.


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## misstray

krandall said:


> Hi Heather, I'm sorry, but I don't know who said what wrong in this thread. I thought that all we did was mention possible red flags. (I said I wouldn't buy a dog from someone who...) but that, to me is a personal opinion. I wasn't saying what someone else should or shouldn't do. So I'm a bit puzzled by your response.


There was an earlier post, that has now been deleted, that gave a breeder's phone number.


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## CacheHavs

Karen it was not in reference to you, you did just the right thing. Member "Eddie" had posted their breeder and their phone number, I had only removed that breeders info as this is a public place and no one should be posting their personal info, but can share it privately . I see that "Eddie" has since deleted their post.


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## Happy2hav

Thank you for your responses. You gave me more points to ponder. I did check out the HCA website. If anyone has a recommendation, feel free to private message me.


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## lfung5

LOL! We all must be paranoid! I thought she was referring to me!!


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## krandall

CacheHavs said:


> Karen it was not in reference to you, you did just the right thing. Member "Eddie" had posted their breeder and their phone number, I had only removed that breeders info as this is a public place and no one should be posting their personal info, but can share it privately . I see that "Eddie" has since deleted their post.


Oh, OK, thanks! I was just confused!


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## TripnWillow

I know this response is very late and am sure that the original poster has already made a decision, but I wanted to share some of my experience with Harlequin Havanese if anyone else reads this thread in the future. I had looked at getting a puppy from her, but did not for 3 main reasons. 1) She does not do the HCA recommended health testing and will give you many excuses why it's ok that she doesn't. 2) She would not allow me to visit and meet the puppies or even parents in person. 3) she was very hesitant to share pedigrees of the parents with me. When I did further research on my own, I realized that the sire of the litter was only seven months old.


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## lfung5

Yikes. Huge red flags! You were so smart to walk away!


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## Happy2hav

So glad we didn't go with this breeder!


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## Thumper

TripnWillow said:


> I know this response is very late and am sure that the original poster has already made a decision, but I wanted to share some of my experience with Harlequin Havanese if anyone else reads this thread in the future. I had looked at getting a puppy from her, but did not for 3 main reasons. 1) She does not do the HCA recommended health testing and will give you many excuses why it's ok that she doesn't. 2) She would not allow me to visit and meet the puppies or even parents in person. 3) she was very hesitant to share pedigrees of the parents with me. When I did further research on my own, I realized that the sire of the litter was only seven months old.


That isn't just a red flag that is a bag of flags on fire!

I do not think there is ANY good reason for not having the health testing done.

Kara


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## PJL1067

*Need help finding a reputable breeder*

I have been thinking about welcoming a dog into our family and I have settled on the beautiful Havanese breed. I have 3 children between the ages of 4 and 7 and my main concern was finding a breed that would fit in well with the kids.

I have been trying to do my research on where and how to buy as I just don't want to walk into a random pet shop and spend money on a dog that is potentially a puppy mill dog that might have some major health complications later on down the road.

Can anyone recommend a reputable breeder in or around the NY area? I am located in Suffolk County NY (Long Island)

Thanks


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