# What is APRI registration?



## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Can someone tell me what APRI registration is or what significance, if any, it is to have an APRI champion. I was just on that Jeff's website and it blows my mind. He keeps mentioning the above and says nothing about any testing or any AKC registration. His site just upsets me and I have a feeling he's trying to fool people into thinking they're getting something they're not.


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

It is American Pet Registry--so I assume there is no AKC registry. I have no idea who Jeff is, but this is not the registry you would want if you wanted a pure breed. A hybrid could be registered on this registration. I would not expect to see any health testing and would run the other way.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Exactly what I thought. It makes me so angry when "breeders" try to fool the public. Thanks.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

I think APRI is one of those registries where you can just send a picture of your pet and tell them it's a Havanese or a Maltese and they will register your dog as such....scarry!!!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Look at this guy's site. The whole site is scary. http://www.jeffshavanese.com/aboutus.php?id=21


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

APRI is the most common registry that puppy millers use. Draw your own conclusions from that.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

It's sad because someone who didn't know better might think sites like that are legitimate breeders. This particular guy seems to have increased his business tremendously over the past couple of years. I wish there were a way to let people know.


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## joemodeler (Dec 3, 2007)

Check out this balony. A simple search of this alleged "club" and you will find that it so false. There is no "club." They are the club. Checkout the bottom and the disclaimers.

http://www.internationalkennel.com/

Geri, this place is right here in East Meadow. It burns me.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

How could they be champions? APRI champions? Where would he show them? I don't get that....

Also---did you notice all the different ages of all the different puppies? Looks like he is getting a lot of money for his pups.

I know this guy was brought up once before on here,but geez......he has changed his website I think,as I never saw the champion photos before.:suspicious:


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

joemodeler said:


> Check out this balony. A simple search of this alleged "club" and you will find that it so false. There is no "club." They are the club. Checkout the bottom and the disclaimers.
> 
> http://www.internationalkennel.com/
> 
> Geri, this place is right here in East Meadow. It burns me.


Jon,

I've seen that place. Aren't they right next to the Colony Diner? I think they have a big ad on the side of the building. I agree, these places make me so mad.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Julie said:


> How could they be champions? APRI champions? Where would he show them? I don't get that....
> 
> Also---did you notice all the different ages of all the different puppies? Looks like he is getting a lot of money for his pups.
> 
> I know this guy was brought up once before on here,but geez......he has changed his website I think,as I never saw the champion photos before.:suspicious:


Julie,

He has changed his website. He's also doubed his prices if I remember correctly. Although they're all different prices. Disgusting!


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## joemodeler (Dec 3, 2007)

They are across from a diner but the name escapes me, but they are across from Home Depot.


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## Paradise Havs (Sep 25, 2008)

Jeff's site gave me the creeps! I felt dirty just looking at it! Did you notice that one of the "mommys" was 10 months old? How did you run across that site in the first place?


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Paradise Havs said:


> Jeff's site gave me the creeps! I felt dirty just looking at it! Did you notice that one of the "mommys" was 10 months old? How did you run across that site in the first place?


I ran across it originally a couple of years ago when I was searching for havs in the New York area. It gave me the creeps even back then in its earlier incarnation which made no pretense to championship lines. Never gave it another thought again until someone mentioned it here as a possibility for getting a pup. And yes, he's had many mommies of a very tender age. Disgusting!

Jon, that is the Colony Diner opposite Home Depot in East Meadow. I've never been in the store but the huge sign on the side of the building bothered me too.


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## SCHZ (Mar 17, 2009)

*America's Pet Registry, Inc. ?*

APRI does not allow Hybrids nor do they allow a dog to be registered simply by submitting a photo.
There are actually quit a few AKC show breeders that use APRI shows to practice their dogs for the AKC shows. Of course at the risk of being ridiculed by other AKC show breeders, they keep it to themselves.....I personally know many.
If you have questions you should get the facts from their web site at www.aprpets.org rather than take advise from someone that doesn't know anymore than you do.
Yes, of course AKC is the best and the only one that has been around for over 100 years.....at least in this country. But Ford was once the dominant figure in their industry too. Thank goodness new comers came along & were accepted by the public so we can now own Toyotas should we choose.
Any and all registries are no more than a business.....in the business to make money off of registering your dog. All car makers are in the business to sell you a car so you can get from point A to point B. Some get you there in more luxury than others and some get you there for more years than others and of course some are cheaper than others. Same as with registries. Some are not reliable and certainly not reputable but some are. APRI is by no means AKC nor do they compare themselves to AKC. They do however have some nice advantages. 
Yes, there are some people out there breeding total non quality and using this registry to do so. Is this not the same with AKC? Some of the worst examples of the breed I have seen were registered with AKC. You all know that AKC does not monitor breeders stock for quality. If someone has two registered dogs, they have pups, these pups automatically quality for AKC registration and AKC will take their money to register them. Of course they will NOT allow this to represent the breed in the show ring and it is up to the puppy shopper to choose their breeder wisely.
Hope that answers the question............I know many show breeders that do not want to give out AKC papers with their pups to pet homes will supply the puppy owner with CKC or APRI papers. I personlly go the route of spay/neuter contracts with AKC limited to follow with proof of spay or neuter.
Cheers,
SCHZ


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Schz, welcome to the forum.

What is *the point *of giving CKC or APRI papers instead of AKC? 
Why do you opt to use AKC Limited instead of APRI?


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## SCHZ (Mar 17, 2009)

*WHY*

It is no more than personal preference. Some just don't want to give out the AKC papers with their lines out of total protection.
I do use APRI on some litters with the litters our of the ones I have championed out....mainly for the sake of that customer having fun with the pedigree to their dog.....we are talking about "pet" only buyers. Another reason is APRI draws a name once a month for what they call a "free" puppy. To be in the drawing the person must send a copy of their purchase agreement with the puppy registration. If their name is drawn, APRI will reimburse them the purchase price paid for their puppy up to $1200. I have had one of my customers win this. It was great! It is no different than putting a bow on the puppy, it is not needed but isn't it cute for the new owner when the pick up their puppy.....they get a kick out of it. :O)
But primarily my new puppy owners get spay/neuter contracts regardless of which registration is used or even if the litter is duel registered. Even at that, they rarely even register their puppy so it really doesn't matter which registry is handed out to pet buyers.
And it is beside the point of the topic. The topic was "what is APRI". The answers were basically "A puppy mill registry" in which my answer was there are going to be puppy mills regardless of the registry used because unfortunetly they are everywhere......the news testifies to that. I have seen AKC pups I wouldn't have taken for free and I know you all have as well.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

One thing AKC requires now that is impressive is DNA swab testing on all foreign dogs (even if in a foreign registry) not recognized by the AKC. Jackson's father is from Hungary and was required to have DNA testing. Expensive for the breeder, but very reassuring for the breed.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

I have to chime in and say that as someone who has purchased two purebred pet dogs-one from an ethical breeder, one from a "backyard breeder" I would not trust or have faith in a "breeder" who registered his/her dogs from any other organization but AKC here in the United States.

I am one of those pet owners that does alter her dogs, sends in registration forms, obeys the clauses in her contract even if the breeder isn't necessarily "watching." I try to be the most responsible pet owner, and most informed pet owner I can be.

Why wouldn't I trust a puppy from a breeder who used APRI or CKC? Because, as a consumer I would predict that either their home or their dogs were not up to standard. My dane was registered CKC, which pardon my French, was a bull-**** organization. It was like something you could find on the back of a dog food bag, a coupon you could fill out any which way, a joke. I didn't know then what I do now, and my dog suffered from a lot which I've already gone into on other threads, so I won't go into now.

When I got Posh from a good/ethical/responsible breeder, I registered her with her limited registry paperwork and sent it into AKC. I had originally put my husband and I both on the form, and then changed my mind and crossed out his name. Well, this was unacceptable to AKC and I had to redo the form, get my breeder's signature, etc...I was impressed with the fact that someone was actually looking at the integrity of this. 

Meanwhile, I do know that just because someone totes an AKC registered dog/puppy/parent or "Champion" lines that bottom line is they need to be a breeder who has the breed best interests in mind, that they are doing proper health testing and standing behind their dogs. 

Comparing APRI, CKC (Continental Kennel Club-not to be confused with Canadian Kennel Club) and AKC to Toyota vs. Ford is just asinine in my opinion.


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## WhatsinAname (Mar 29, 2008)

pjewel said:


> Exactly what I thought. It makes me so angry when "breeders" try to fool the public. Thanks.


I hate to admit it but When I got my first dog 1 1/2yrs ago I almost got a puppy from him. At that time I didn't know what APRI was.

He's now selling a chocolate/white puppy for $2,500.00 stating that both parents are Champions. It also looks like he started doing CERF testing. Perhaps he was reading all your posts and realized he should do the testing.  Even with the CERF testing, $2,500 for a puppy that's not AKC? Yikes.


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## Jammies (Apr 4, 2009)

*UGH...I don't know much about puppy mills, but this sure looks like one to me! All those females and 2 males...and one of the males is for sale! I hope people do some research before buying!*


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Now I'm really confused! The Lone Star Havanese Club in Texas sponsored one of their shows? http://12.30.186.138/


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## Jammies (Apr 4, 2009)

*Also, don't you think the prices are a "bit" high????*


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

SCHZ said:


> It is no more than personal preference. Some just don't want to give out the AKC papers with their lines out of total protection.
> I do use APRI on some litters with the litters our of the ones I have championed out....mainly for the sake of that customer having fun with the pedigree to their dog.....we are talking about "pet" only buyers. Another reason is APRI draws a name once a month for what they call a "free" puppy. To be in the drawing the person must send a copy of their purchase agreement with the puppy registration. If their name is drawn, APRI will reimburse them the purchase price paid for their puppy up to $1200. I have had one of my customers win this. It was great! It is no different than putting a bow on the puppy, it is not needed but isn't it cute for the new owner when the pick up their puppy.....they get a kick out of it. :O)
> But primarily my new puppy owners get spay/neuter contracts regardless of which registration is used or even if the litter is duel registered. Even at that, they rarely even register their puppy so it really doesn't matter which registry is handed out to pet buyers.
> And it is beside the point of the topic. The topic was "what is APRI". The answers were basically "A puppy mill registry" in which my answer was there are going to be puppy mills regardless of the registry used because unfortunetly they are everywhere......the news testifies to that. I have seen AKC pups I wouldn't have taken for free and I know you all have as well.


Protection? How can one research the health of the puppy they are purchasing with out knowing the line? How can I protect myself if you are hiding VERY important information?


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Leeann said:


> Protection? How can one research the health of the puppy they are purchasing with out knowing the line? How can I protect myself if you are hiding VERY important information?


 You can go to offa.org and look up the sire and dam and it will show you the basics. It doesn't tell you if the parents are CD, doesn't tell you if mitral valve has been found, doesn't tell you if there is epilepsy in the lines, doesn't tell you if a dog has SA, doesn't tell you if heart murmurs are in the lines, etc. Every line out there has SOMETHING in it and if a person tells you there has never been a health problem in their lines I'd run like the wind.
So how do you protect yourself? I guess you pray or hope for honesty. Then again, there are some things that can be in lines that can be bred away from if it takes two to tango. If you're breeding away from it and it's not going to come forward, why scare the heck out of someone


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Jan being a breeder I KNOW you would not buy a puppy without checking the line or OFA to protect yourself and your line the best you can so why should anyone else not have the same opportunity even if the puppy is not for breeding purposes. Using APRI does not allow us as puppy buyers ANY information.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Leeann said:


> Jan being a breeder I KNOW you would not buy a puppy without checking the line or OFA to protect yourself and your line the best you can so why should anyone else not have the same opportunity even if the puppy is not for breeding purposes. Using APRI does not allow us as puppy buyers ANY information.


Everyone does deserve honesty, not just breeders. My comment is that even though I breed (rarely, but since I have bred I'm a breeder) that doesn't mean that everyone is honest, even to another breeder and we're seeing pretty bad things come into our breed because of it.
You know why I come here and read and don't read the yahoo group list mail (other than I just don't have time right now)? It's because most here are pet owners and that's where I hear the truth from. 
This is the place I learned we have liver issues in our breed and pet owners openly speak about it. Pet owners have nothing to lose by being open. if a breeder says this or that is in their line the fit hits the shan. 
I remember when I posted that a puppy from Bandit had an overbite. I got called any name you could think of for my honesty and was called a liar by friends of the owner of the stud saying I was trying to destroy the stud's reputation. MY dog had this puppy and that was my only thought. Those of you who have seen the Havanese Horizons have seen pictures of him. He's a doll and always looks like he's smiling :biggrin1: because of the overbite but that doesn't mean I'm happy that it happened but things don't always work out the way you wish they could.
APRI doesn't give you much information however stop and think about it. When you (et al) bought your puppy were you told what was in their lines? I'm still doing research to find out what's in my lines and that research will never stop because I can't breed away from something if I don't know about it.
Yes, you can go to offa.org and look up some health tests however that doesn't cover everything. That being said, I still want to see health records and tests that have been done. Right now that's about all we have to go by other than talking to people who have dogs that are a few years old that come from the same lines and frankly the information I get from people with older dogs weighs heavier than the ofa testing does but that doesn't mean I'm going to get a puppy from anyone with problems recorded on ofa.


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

It would be nice if everyone was honest. Jan you are right we all deserve honesty. You know what I'm going to email my breeder and let him know Zoey has had some problems with pancreatitis. I just never thought it would matter but maybe after reading your post maybe it does.


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## Chere (May 22, 2009)

Well, I'll chime in here with our experiences as rescue adopters. Our dogs came out of a puppy mill and we got them when they were two years old. We were not really looking for a Hav specifically but were on three different breed rescue groups. We did research to find several breeds that we thought would meet our needs and we knew we wanted rescue if at all possible. 

Our Havs are wonderful but I can look at their feet and tell they are not really right, they spay out to the sides. One has signs of liver issues which are controlled right now. We love them and would not trade them but we will be faced with higher vet bills (most likely) than owners who buy health checked puppies from responsible breeders. Our dogs likely were bred before we got them and so any faults they have might have been passed on. 

It is likely that I will always have rescue dogs as I just believe in rescue but my way is not for everyone. Anyone wanting a healthy puppy should go for a responsible breeder who health checks. Registration anywhere means nothing without that, in my opinion.

I grew up when cocker spaniels were hugely popular; as a result they became popular with mills and backyard breeders and the breed suffered tremendously, to the point that many vets recommended not getting a cocker spaniel because of the breeding issues that resulted in temperment and health issues. Other breeds have also gone through this. Our last dog was a cocker and she was wonderful but had many and severe health issues that hurt her and cost us many dollars. 

Knowing the line of your puppies parents and the health of generations is so important unless you are prepared to risk future problems. I don't want to be misunderstood here, I also support adopting from shelters but anyone doing that must know that there could be issues that cannot be foreseen.


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## mimismom (Feb 15, 2009)

As a fairly new dog owner and one that had not fully understood registering before, I can say that the general consumer who sees "registered" on a dog for sale will assume that they are getting a dog that is registered with the AKC and has had proper health testing done.

I have seen some breeders and dog stores charge extra because their dogs are registered with CKC, APRI, and any other "Kennel Club" you care to mention. Did you know some of these include hybrids? (To me those dogs are mutts, and makes no sense to register them but to each his/her own)

What I hate to see is that people are often misled into purchasing a dog they feel is up to standard and of highest quality lines because of some registry attached to that dog.

If the breeders would explain the guidelines and criteria of the registries to the potential new dog owners, that would begin to build awareness.

And Yes, I think it does matter as to "*why* you would use the APRI as a registry" in this topic. It gives everyone a better understanding of what the registery is all about and how it is used.

If a breeder wants to keep protect their AKC registration, they why give "papers" at all to pet-only owners? why not do limited registry? To me, that would seem misleading. > "The parents are AKC, but I am going to give you this other registry instead">

I have yet to purchase a registered dog, but am considering it in the near future. My inquiries are so that I can be an informed customer and have a better understanding about registries.


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

JASHavanese said:


> Everyone does deserve honesty, not just breeders. My comment is that even though I breed (rarely, but since I have bred I'm a breeder) that doesn't mean that everyone is honest, even to another breeder and we're seeing pretty bad things come into our breed because of it.
> You know why I come here and read and don't read the yahoo group list mail (other than I just don't have time right now)? It's because most here are pet owners and that's where I hear the truth from.
> This is the place I learned we have liver issues in our breed and pet owners openly speak about it. Pet owners have nothing to lose by being open. if a breeder says this or that is in their line the fit hits the shan.
> I remember when I posted that a puppy from Bandit had an overbite. I got called any name you could think of for my honesty and was called a liar by friends of the owner of the stud saying I was trying to destroy the stud's reputation. MY dog had this puppy and that was my only thought. Those of you who have seen the Havanese Horizons have seen pictures of him. He's a doll and always looks like he's smiling :biggrin1: because of the overbite but that doesn't mean I'm happy that it happened but things don't always work out the way you wish they could.
> ...


Kudos Jan!!!! I feel the same way as you. We all know that there are different health problems in most of the lines. There is because we started with such a small gene pool. I would rather have a puppy with an overbite than a liver shunt. Once Dr. Center gets done with finding the gene responsible for liver shunts and figures out if it takes both parents to be carriers, we can make better decisions in the whelping box but right now everyone needs to be forthcoming so we don't double up on health problems.


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

What is his last name? Under the clubs page, he acts as though he is an HCA member. I think HCA should check up on this to see if he is misleading the public.


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