# Ricco and the chair



## Ricco'sMommy (Nov 22, 2013)

I think Im going to be bald by the time I get through all Ricco's bad issues. We had a great few days of no pooping on floor then SLAM....we now PEE in my husbands chair. 

Hubby took him for a walk since it was nice out side. Gone 30 min....Ricco came in and jumps in his chair and pees on it. Now hes not a leg lifter, so I didnt notice the pee until I sat down IN it. My husband was not real happy. We didnt scold him, it had been a bit since he was in the chair any way so not like it helps. 

I dont know why just now these issues are popping up. Being a rescue I figured we would have a few quirks but this potty thing seems to get weirder as time goes on. 

We have though about a day time out door runner line {once its warm} to make the grass his pee spot. We have a nice shaded front yard with two big trees. Im just at such a loss  Im doing every thing suggested and still he wants to use my house as his potty. Now the furniture.....Im worried this is getting worse not better. 

Any ideas on what Ricco could be trying to tell us with all this? Other than hes a stuborn brat lol. I refuse to give up but Im now at the point of getting pampers for a dog!


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

I remember the first time we took Gibbs for a walk. He was so excited to sniff everything. He spent the entire walk in motion exploring all he could. Dana and I got tired and we returned home. As soon as we got inside and Gibbs settled down, he peed. That's when Dana and I realized he was so excited to sniff new things, he never stopped to pee. Now when we take him for a walk, our last stop is our yard where we wait for him to pee before coming inside.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeah it's not that he's trying to tell you anything. He's just relieving himself. Here is a good article that might help explain some things http://www.positiveresponse.net.au/page/attachment/184/house-soiling-nz-gazette

John you could try teaching him to go before the walk. This way the walk becomes a reward for eliminating.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Great article Dave!  -Jeanne-


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## Ricco'sMommy (Nov 22, 2013)

davetgabby said:


> yeah it's not that he's trying to tell you anything. He's just relieving himself. Here is a good article that might help explain some things http://www.positiveresponse.net.au/page/attachment/184/house-soiling-nz-gazette
> 
> John you could try teaching him to go before the walk. This way the walk becomes a reward for eliminating.


Good reading! He did however pee before, during and after walk. Im at a total loss here. Its like the more I try the more he pottys inside. Whats even more odd is this didnt start getting daily until Dec. Nothing has changed. he was very well behaved up till Christmas or so. He would have accidents {esp. when we didnt know his cues for telling us he had to go} but it was more like once a week....not daily and right after a potty run.

Oh and the "telling me some thing" is more a joke in our house. Like oh he peed on DAD'S chair haha hes mad at Dad kinda thing. I know hes not THAT smart lol.

I just cant figure out what IM doing wrong. Hes in the small kennel {borrowed an open one a bit bigger...he screamed and potties the entire day in that, just not ready to upgrade yet} during work/school hours, he goes out at 7:30am then again at 3pm. He gets tied to eat and drink {if we dont he tends to drag his dishes off spilling every thing} this is only for 45 min. Then he goes back out to potty. After that he gets free run time. THIS is when we see the most accidents. He will come in, sit nice for a treat then about 5 min later we see the pee/poop spot. Or like this one...hour later the leather chair is wet. He is doing both out side. I now watch to be sure the teen is making sure he does so.

Ive even put the pads down just to try and see if its a "I HAVE to go now" thing he would use those. Instead it ends up being carpet or now the chair. Could this be a former issue? Maybe the last jerks didnt let him out to pee so now carpet is his grass? If I have to I will buy those puppy pampers and work from there. Hes a smart dog, I just need to figure out what the heck we are not seeing here


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## Ricco'sMommy (Nov 22, 2013)

THIS!!!

"...a rescue dog may have 
been free to eliminate wherever and whenever he pleases 
and, for many, the concept of elimination being illegal 
inside the house is foreign."

This is what I mean by "former jerks" allowing the indoor potty. How do I work around that? I swear that seems like the light bulb went off lol!


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

If Ricco lived with me I would work with him as though he were a brand new baby puppy with no real notion of when or where he could eliminate appropriately. His place would be a small expen area that would just accomodate bedding (easily washable) and a place for food and toys and if you want an indoor potty option that would be included. Maybe 2 ft x 4 ft in total. If he is outside that space for the next couple months minimum, he would be attached to an attentive me. Additionally I would use an enzymatic cleaner to clean EVERYWHERE that Ricco has had an accident. It is really difficult to clean dog urine off/out of things sufficiently enough that the dog can't smell it and think oh I went here before so I can go again. I would take Ricco out often, use a marker word such as Yes when he pees outside where you want him to go and give him a treat. Know that dogs don't always eliminate fully that first time they pee so give him a bit of time to see if he needs to go again. If he doesn't go in a 3-5 minute timeframe you decide but be consistent, then he goes back in the expen for 15 minutes and try again. If he does go then he can stay out of the expen for a bit but attached to me with a tether. The opportunity for error needs to be greatly minimized if not eliminated until Ricco has established new appropriate habits for elimination. If he wasn't taught appropriate elimination habits and about keeping his sleeping and eating places clean when he was a baby, then teaching those things to him as an adult will be much harder. It will require frequent opportunities to eliminate appropriately, consistent reward for doing so, and constant close supervision to eliminate the opportunity for error. Rescued adult dogs can be retrained to eliminate appropriately but it takes a lot of effort and consistency because inappropriate habits must be unlearned and appropriate habits must take their place. Ricco is given the opportunity for an enlargement of the expen when he consistently keeps it clean or uses the indoor option (pee pad for instance) that you have provided. This isn't a quick fix and everyone in the household needs to be consistent.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricco'sMommy said:


> I think Im going to be bald by the time I get through all Ricco's bad issues. We had a great few days of no pooping on floor then SLAM....we now PEE in my husbands chair.
> 
> Hubby took him for a walk since it was nice out side. Gone 30 min....Ricco came in and jumps in his chair and pees on it. Now hes not a leg lifter, so I didnt notice the pee until I sat down IN it. My husband was not real happy. We didnt scold him, it had been a bit since he was in the chair any way so not like it helps.
> 
> ...


The trouble is, that you have no idea about his past potty training. For all you know, that could be the reason he was surrendered. It is a common reason with small dogs.

I would not be letting him on ANYTHING that can't be easily cleaned for the foreseeable future. A week of potty training success is a great start&#8230; but it is JUST a start with a non-house broken adult dog. He has had SO many opportunities to make mistakes, it's going to take a REALLY long time to get those good habits solid. In the mean time, you really have to treat him like a little baby puppy and ASSUME that he could have an accident, any time, any place. He's not a stubborn brat&#8230; he's just confused. He really hasn't learned this well enough to be successful yet. I would expect, with a dog who is over a year old, and having so much trouble, that it could easily take another year of consistent effort on your parts to get him to the point of being reliable in the house&#8230; maybe longer.

I would NOT EVER put a small dog out on a run. (well, I wouldn't put a big dog on a run either, but that's not the point) A run is EXTREMELY dangerous for a small dog, because they are a sitting duck for any larger loose dog, or worse, they are coyote bait. That is the biggest problem with them for little dogs. For ALL dogs, runs make dogs reactive and territorial. They are not a good solution.

I'm not wild about diapers, but if you really can't do the work needed to get him potty trained, that's a better solution than tying him out.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricco'sMommy said:


> Ive even put the pads down just to try and see if its a "I HAVE to go now" thing he would use those. Instead it ends up being carpet or now the chair. Could this be a former issue? Maybe the last jerks didnt let him out to pee so now carpet is his grass? If I have to I will buy those puppy pampers and work from there. Hes a smart dog, I just need to figure out what the heck we are not seeing here


He has no idea what the pads are for. He doesn't understand that THOSE are where you want him to go and not other places in the house. Unless you can confine him to an ex-pen that is completely lined with pee pads until he REALLY UNDERSTANDS that that's where you want him to go (by watching him carefully,e ben IN the ex-pen and praising him HEAVILY every time he uses the pads, the pads won't help.

What bothers me is that you don't find the accidents until later. THis can only be because you, and by you, I mean all the people in the family (other than the baby ) aren't supervising him closely enough. Somebody needs to have FULL ATTENTION, EYES ON, CLOSE ENOUGH TO GRAB HIM and get him outside, EVERY MOMENT that he is not confined.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricco'sMommy said:


> THIS!!!
> 
> "...a rescue dog may have
> been free to eliminate wherever and whenever he pleases
> ...


You have to treat him as if he's an 8 week old puppy&#8230; Only it's HARDER, because an 8 week old puppy has no BAD habits to break. It's going to take a long time, close confinement (preferably in an ex-pen with pee pads or another potty solution) and CLOSE SUPERVISION when he's not confined if you want to have a prayer of getting this under control.


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## Ricco'sMommy (Nov 22, 2013)

krandall said:


> He has no idea what the pads are for. He doesn't understand that THOSE are where you want him to go and not other places in the house. Unless you can confine him to an ex-pen that is completely lined with pee pads until he REALLY UNDERSTANDS that that's where you want him to go (by watching him carefully,e ben IN the ex-pen and praising him HEAVILY every time he uses the pads, the pads won't help.
> 
> What bothers me is that you don't find the accidents until later. THis can only be because you, and by you, I mean all the people in the family (other than the baby ) aren't supervising him closely enough. Somebody needs to have FULL ATTENTION, EYES ON, CLOSE ENOUGH TO GRAB HIM and get him outside, EVERY MOMENT that he is not confined.


Your correct. Its mostly just me when the guys have homework to do. Both son and hubby in school so Im the prime "adult" figure for both baby and pup. I find it mins after or AS he does it. The chair was a shock. I went potty,hubby was at the store...5 min and he had a potty place.

The runner is when Im supervising. Even my larger boxer was never left alone on his. We live in town so I know there are strays and Ricco is never out side alone, ever. Id like to have a nice run for him for when Quinn and I are out to play so all 3 of us can get fresh air and Im not tied to a running Ricco lol. I even had a body harness for Bobb that was made for his run line. Ricco would have the same.

Pampers...I REALLY hate. Ive tried putting the pads in his areas. he moves them, pees or poos,then covers it with pad...Im pondering if hes watch my cat do his potty lol.

Hes a smart pup. Little over a yr old now. hes getting ideas and training down fast but seems to be stuborn with this potty issue. Like a typical terrible 2s kid. He comes to tell me he has to go, he goes out then as soon as I go potty and he knows Dad or Zak isnt in the same room we have the issue.

Can this be linked to his abandonment? It seems like it when I walk off and he cant see me.


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## Ricco'sMommy (Nov 22, 2013)

Pucks104 said:


> If he is outside that space for the next couple months minimum, he would be attached to an attentive me.


I thought of this. Leashing him to me when Im here alone. Problem is I cant change or tend to my 5 mo old with a Ricco attached. Im wondering tho if movo\ing a teather spot close to me and only enough room for him to sit or lay would work?


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## Ricco'sMommy (Nov 22, 2013)

I do have to give him credit. Hes now learned sit,stay,down,find baby,bed and out. He learns so fast it amazes me. I feel Im just working out kinks in finding triggers for his potty issues. Like what makes him feel so freaked out when he cant see me or why he would pee on a chair when Im not there. Our vet did say that he feels Ricco has abandonment issues {he would scream and get very upset when i left the room} and we are working through these as well as potty time. 

I have a good feeling that once spring comes and Mommy here can take him and his baby out more we may be able to curb this better. Spending more time with him and teaching him good habits. Like when out side and he potties I can reward him WHEN he does it there. Right now theres 7 inches of snow...he has to be let out more offten and for less time due to cold. {cant have a frost bitten pup}


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricco'sMommy said:


> Pampers...I REALLY hate. Ive tried putting the pads in his areas. he moves them, pees or poos,then covers it with pad...Im pondering if hes watch my cat do his potty lol.
> 
> Hes a smart pup. Little over a yr old now. hes getting ideas and training down fast but seems to be stuborn with this potty issue. Like a typical terrible 2s kid. He comes to tell me he has to go, he goes out then as soon as I go potty and he knows Dad or Zak isnt in the same room we have the issue.
> 
> Can this be linked to his abandonment? It seems like it when I walk off and he cant see me.


You can get a frame to hold the pee pads, called a "UgoDog". This would keep him from moving them around. He just doesn't understand what the pads are for, and it's much harder with an adult dog&#8230; even an older puppy/young adult like Ricco.

This isn't stubbornness, nor is it "terrible 2's". It is MUCH harder to teach/learn NOT to do something than it is to teach them to DO something. That's why this takes so much longer. Also, he's been allowed to make LOTS of mistakes. And you need to have, probably 20-50 "correct" responses to make up for every "incorrect" response. It's all about establishing habits.

No, I don't think it has anything to do with abandonment. He may be STARTING to learn, "I don't go potty when she can see me" but he hasn't generalized that to, "I don't go potty anywhere but outside." If you're the only trustworthy family member, then you MUST confine him (or bring him with you!) when you have to use the bathroom. Either eyes ON him, FULL attention, or confine him. That's the only way you'll get him to learn this. I wish there were short cuts, but there aren't. And as I said, EVERY time you allow an accident to happen, you've got to get it right 20 or more times just to erase that one mistake. The down-side form accidents is HUGE!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricco'sMommy said:


> I do have to give him credit. Hes now learned sit,stay,down,find baby,bed and out. He learns so fast it amazes me. I feel Im just working out kinks in finding triggers for his potty issues. Like what makes him feel so freaked out when he cant see me or why he would pee on a chair when Im not there. Our vet did say that he feels Ricco has abandonment issues {he would scream and get very upset when i left the room} and we are working through these as well as potty time.
> 
> I have a good feeling that once spring comes and Mommy here can take him and his baby out more we may be able to curb this better. Spending more time with him and teaching him good habits. Like when out side and he potties I can reward him WHEN he does it there. Right now theres 7 inches of snow...he has to be let out more offten and for less time due to cold. {cant have a frost bitten pup}


He may very well have abandonment issues too, but that's NOT why he's not potty trained. HE puts no significance on the chair. It's just another "place" in the house, and he doesn't yet understand that he is not supposed to potty in the house.

Unfortunately, the way this winter is going, spring is probably still a couple of months off. If you can't prevent accidents between now and then, you will have an even HARDER time trying to fix this problem then. It's not just a matter of living with it now and fixing it later. As I mentioned previously, you need many MANY correct repetitions to make up for even ONE mistake!!!

As far as tethering him near you is concerned, I think he will still have accidents this way. Your attention is STILL going to be on the baby, not on him. If you want to move him around with you so he can be near you, move his crate close to where you will be and put him in his crate when you are tending to the baby.


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## Ricco'sMommy (Nov 22, 2013)

krandall said:


> He may very well have abandonment issues too, but that's NOT why he's not potty trained. HE puts no significance on the chair. It's just another "place" in the house, and he doesn't yet understand that he is not supposed to potty in the house.
> 
> Unfortunately, the way this winter is going, spring is probably still a couple of months off. If you can't prevent accidents between now and then, you will have an even HARDER time trying to fix this problem then. It's not just a matter of living with it now and fixing it later. As I mentioned previously, you need many MANY correct repetitions to make up for even ONE mistake!!!
> 
> As far as tethering him near you is concerned, I think he will still have accidents this way. Your attention is STILL going to be on the baby, not on him. If you want to move him around with you so he can be near you, move his crate close to where you will be and put him in his crate when you are tending to the baby.


I tried the leash near me and he was out for 4 hours with no oopsies. This was during the "up" time when work/school was on. Lol Im betting that was a fluke tho, like you said he is older and teaching the potty things gonna be harder before better.

I love my mop dog. issues and all I love him to pieces. Im just going to keep on trucking along with positive attitude {and scream when i get in my shower haha} and see where we are in a few weeks.

Ive also taken to writing down how long hes out {walks and out time}, when he pees/poos in and out side and whats going on in the house if I miss the oops. Im thinking like you did, I need to have more up time till I can allow him to tag along more. At least with this IF we have an issue perhaps I can see what the consistant problem on MY end is and fix it.

I will add that silly Ricco decided snow is the MOST amazing thing hes ever seen. he played in the 6 inches of it on Monday, made tracks all thru my yard while dragging the laughing teenager along for the ride. They were out for 45 min! So glad it was warmer or Id have frozen kids now lol. He passed out cold after he came in. Was so sweet to see him cuddled at my feet snoozing <3


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Sounds like you are on the right track with Ricco. Patience, consistency, and VERY slow forward progression should help Ricco learn what you expect. He is lucky to have found a home where he will be helped to learn appropriate elimination behavior.


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## Ricco'sMommy (Nov 22, 2013)

Pucks104 said:


> Sounds like you are on the right track with Ricco. Patience, consistency, and VERY slow forward progression should help Ricco learn what you expect. He is lucky to have found a home where he will be helped to learn appropriate elimination behavior.


Hes an absolute joy to have in the family. Lol silly and playful yet cuddles us non stop. <3 my little rescued fluffy


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## dianaplo (Dec 30, 2013)

My rescue has been with me for 2 years and I still do not ever let her roam the house unsupervised. She has many years of neglect to unlearn. I must keep one eye on her when she is out of the 2rooms that i keep gated off for her. Occasionally I will catch her trying to slip out of sight and I always go outside with her then because she just doesn't want to say that she needs to potty. Remember that all of the activity in your home is a lot for Ricco to process. This may be just a little reminder to you to give him more time. Here is my Molly's pic...she isn't Havanese but she's still perfect! And she is a great big sister to our Havanese puppy even though he can be a brat. (She hates flash photography and closes her eyes the minute I grab a camera loll)


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## Ricco'sMommy (Nov 22, 2013)

dianaplo said:


> My rescue has been with me for 2 years and I still do not ever let her roam the house unsupervised. She has many years of neglect to unlearn. I must keep one eye on her when she is out of the 2rooms that i keep gated off for her. Occasionally I will catch her trying to slip out of sight and I always go outside with her then because she just doesn't want to say that she needs to potty. Remember that all of the activity in your home is a lot for Ricco to process. This may be just a little reminder to you to give him more time. Here is my Molly's pic...she isn't Havanese but she's still perfect! And she is a great big sister to our Havanese puppy even though he can be a brat. (She hates flash photography and closes her eyes the minute I grab a camera loll)


Aww shes beautiful  Ricco is a Schnoodle...I had no idea that breed even existed lol. I came here thinking he was a have...I got fooled  hes a great little guy to love.

I feel that we as a family are very busy most of the time, this tends to make us less aware of oopsies if Ricco has them. He comes to me only to go potty, so thats hard too. The guys dont SEE his potty action then and have no clue till i get there attention. Another issue we have is our boxer boy would be VERY clear he had to go. Hed come over and literally sit on me. Then run to the door....well you cant miss a 60 pound boxer at your door! Ricco just comes and pats me and runs off. So if Im busy its hard to catch the signals he sends. Im working on it  He is after all a rescue. No clue what happened to him before us. Just know that the shelter scared the hell out of him. He was curled up in a ball shaking  Once home tho he opened up so well!!! Now he is active,playful and very loving.

I couldnt have rescued a better little boy <3


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## dianaplo (Dec 30, 2013)

Yep just keep in mind that less freedom now will lead to a better future for all of you.


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## Ricco'sMommy (Nov 22, 2013)

Oh I know. Just cant get my heart to keep my brain in check lol! Ive done better. When he cries I walk off. Just kills me. I want to grab him up and cuddle him


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