# Sad news in our house



## Laurief

Our sweet Logan, the most handsome dog every (in my opinion :bounce, is in for a very rough winter and spring. 

This past Wednesday he took off after a deer that was in our back yard. Somewhere between the house and the fence, he must have stepped in a rut, or slid in the mud and completely OBLITERATED his knee  We went to an orthopedic specialist and she feels that surgery is the only option  He is unable to put any weight on the leg at all. He destroyed his ligaments, injured the patella and the band around the knee. Soo... she cannot operate until the 27th. To make this as safe as possible for him, we are taking him for a teeth cleaning this Tuesday to get rid of any bacteria that might be in his mouth, and then will have his leg surgery next Monday. 
I am so worried for this sweet boy. He has the best personality, he is so loved by his patients that he sees as a therapy dog. I pray that this hardship does not change him in any way. 
I am also so upset that I need to shave him down. They will shave his leg, and his side for the pain patch. The specialist also suggested it since he has so much hair - that it would get in the way, and with him laying down so much for the recovery he will mat terribly. Also he is scheduled for physical therapy afterwards, which includes underwater treadmill, so a shorter coat will be best. 

I so welcome any suggestions on how to help keep him calm, get him around, get him to potty - from people who have been through this. 
We plan on keeping him in our puppy pen, so he has room to move, but not much. following is a picture of our sweet boy, and the puppy pen we will keep him in.


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## jabojenny

I'm so sorry to hear this news. You are a strong, caring and knowledgable fur mom who will be an awesome caretaker for Logan, no doubt in my mind. Things won't be easy but you have a ton of support out there for you guys don't forget. Hair will grow back it's what's on the inside that counts, Logan will have his good days and bad but with you there there's no doubt he'll come back as sweet as he is now. Keep your chin up and take care of yourself too, he needs you! I don't have any advise in the recovery process but you know I'm here if you need anything!


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad

I'm sorry to hear that and wish you, Logan and the rest of your family the best

Good luck


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## RitaandRiley

I'm so sorry Logan is injured! The hair will grow back, it's good healing and comfort that's important. I wish you luck!


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## Lalla

Oh, I am so terribly sorry for you all, and especially for Logan; but it sounds as if you are incredibly experienced, Laurief. I have nursed a seriously sick Coton de Tulear for two years, but due to a very different set of circumstances. Boredom will probably be a big issue and very gentle shaping is a great way of exercising the brain without any physical straining - I found incredibly useful with Pamba, my Coton, and thinking up new things for her to work on became a game in itself for both of us, that could be controlled very carefully. It's also the best way gently to introduce any physiotherapy that you might be required to use. Please keep us all posted on Logan's Progress. I know you will get a mountain of support from everyone here.


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## Ruth4Havs

Oh no! Poor Logan, I hope he will have a really speedy recovery!! I remember when Chester broke his paw/leg, we kept him out of boredom by feeding him treats, snuggling, and helping him to wherever he wants to go. But Chester was only about 12 weeks old and was very playful. I don't know how it happened but he was running everywhere in his cast, playing fetch and getting around perfectly well. Your case is definitely worse, as Logan needs surgery. Hang in there!


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## HannahBearsMom

Oh no! I hope Logan has an easy recovery and does not drive you crazy while recovering.


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## Suzi

Poor baby:hug: I'm so sorry. I can see why it would be better to have a hair cut maybe not shaved but scissor cut down to about two inches. How long after surgery can they have a bath?


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## gelbergirl

Sorry to hear of impending surgery for Logan. CLeaning teeth is a good idea.
Please give him little head scratches for me.


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## Laurief

They are going to shave the whole leg for the surgery , and his side for the pain patch - Also with the water/treadmill physical therapy, if he is long it will be so hard to keep up. I am sure he will look funny for a while because I refuse to cut his ears or tail. He has the most magnificent tail, so I will never ever cut that. He is a sweetheart no matter how much hair he has  
I Plan on cutting him down tonight in prep for his teeth cleaning Tuesday so I will try to take before and after pics.


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## davetgabby

wishing him the best, he couldn't be in better hands.


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## Alison

Logan's Delaware Valley Havanese Club Friends send their love and wish him a speedy recovery. If there is anything we can do, please let us know.
:hug::hug::hug:


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## andra

Well, he is in good hands and he will be ok. Just give him lots of love, attention, cuddles, talking to him to keep his spirits up and maybe look into doggie massage or acupuncture as an adjunct (just a thought, not sure if warrented here).

As far as shaving him down and his recooperation period, well, once he is back in action as a therapy dog, he will have lots of stories to tell his humans, who can most likely relate to having injuries/illness/rehab stories and the humans will be able to empathize, offer extra love and support and also he will be a role model for dealing with adversity. Heck, you could even do a 'form letter' with an update to send to his therapy clients to let them know what is going on and they can root for him from afar. Dont underestimate the power of group dynamics and others rooting for somebody (or furbaby) on the mend 

Good luck to you both!


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## Beau's mom

Let me know how I can help! Do you think Logan will want visitors? If you need an afternoon/day off -- call me and I'll come stay with him. I'll keep in touch.


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## Eddie

So sorry to hear about logan, our prays are with both of you, give him a hug and kiss from Jesse :kiss:


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## sandypaws

Oh Laurie, I'm so sorry to hear about Logan's injury. As one who has recently been through a similar situation, although without the surgery component, I feel so bad. It was very upsetting to see Tyler struggle during the first couple of days or so. In his case, I think the pain med, Tramadol, was making him worse than the bad knee and I took him off it immediately. He perked right up after that. I know it's going to be hard to keep Logan quiet after the surgery, but you will both get through it. I think his being shaved is the least of it right now, but I feel your pain on that too. You are right about the water therapy, especially during the winter months. No matter how much drying you do with a hair dryer before leaving rehab, it's never enough. They are always damp and it's important not to have the injured leg get cold. You will be amazed at how well he will do with rehab. It definitely makes a difference. Tyler is walking fine now, but I still don't allow him to use the stairs or his ramp because I don't trust him to not jump off them. Just a few minutes ago I went to pick him up in the backyard to bring him in and he decided to play keep away with me, running around the yard like a wildman. I get so frightened when he does it, but it doesn't seem to harm him at all.
Best of luck to Logan and if you want to pick my brain anytime, you can PM me and I will try to help. Do I see a home gym in Logan's future? Tyler and I are having a lot of fun with his new treadmill and he's getting the exercise he needs for his muscles. Take care and chin up. We're all here for you.:grouphug:


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## whimsy

OH NO! That poor baby!  I know you are just sick about what happened to him. My heart goes out to you. I know how you feel about having to cut him down as I would feel the same way if it were Whimsy.You are a good Mom and he will get the best of care and be back up and around before you know it. His hair will grow back as pretty as ever! Keep us posted


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## Lalla

sandypaws said:


> Oh Laurie, I'm so sorry to hear about Logan's injury. As one who has recently been through a similar situation, although without the surgery component, I feel so bad. It was very upsetting to see Tyler struggle during the first couple of days or so. In his case, I think the pain med, Tramadol, was making him worse than the bad knee and I took him off it immediately. He perked right up after that. I know it's going to be hard to keep Logan quiet after the surgery, but you will both get through it. I think his being shaved is the least of it right now, but I feel your pain on that too. You are right about the water therapy, especially during the winter months. No matter how much drying you do with a hair dryer before leaving rehab, it's never enough. They are always damp and it's important not to have the injured leg get cold. You will be amazed at how well he will do with rehab. It definitely makes a difference. Tyler is walking fine now, but I still don't allow him to use the stairs or his ramp because I don't trust him to not jump off them. Just a few minutes ago I went to pick him up in the backyard to bring him in and he decided to play keep away with me, running around the yard like a wildman. I get so frightened when he does it, but it doesn't seem to harm him at all.
> Best of luck to Logan and if you want to pick my brain anytime, you can PM me and I will try to help. Do I see a home gym in Logan's future? Tyler and I are having a lot of fun with his new treadmill and he's getting the exercise he needs for his muscles. Take care and chin up. We're all here for you.:grouphug:


Oh, Laurief and Mary, if you can bear it, please do post your correspondence publicly, I know we'd all like to know what you are saying, how Logan is doing, and what advice you have, Mary - if that might be alright? Re Tramadol - I had the same experience with Pamba, my first Coton; she reacted dreadfully badly to it and I took her off it, with my vet's agreement, except when things were really really bad.


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## Laurief

That is interesting with Tramadol - Logan has been on it since Thursday am and has not problems. In fact it seems to be helping him considerable! I am so glad he is not having any reactions. The Orthopedic Surgeon said that he will be in horrible pain the first few days so he will have a pain patch but I am sure he will need Tramadol later on when he starts therapy. 

He just got his shortie haircut and actually he looks really cute. Almost like a totally different dog.  

Thanks for the support guys, I am sure that I will need all the advise I can get when the time comes. 10 1/2 years with Havanese, and this is our first injury/surgery that we have had to deal with .


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## Lalla

Really good if Tramadol is ok, it's certainly effective and useful. Watch out, as with any painkillers, for constipation - maybe ask the vet what's best in those circumstances, should they occur, just in case?


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## littlebuddy

A friend of mine who had a Bichon that had hip problem used a pillow case to basically hold his back end up while he went outside to do his business. He was able to gently walk around without putting too much weight on his back legs. Just a thought. So sorry to hear about your dog. Thank goodness he didn't run off, it looks like you have set up a very nice "rest" area for him until his surgery. Sending positive thoughts your way.


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## Ruthiec

So sorry to hear this; poor boy and poor you, you both have a tough time ahead of you. Love and patience will get you noth through this.

Logan looks as if he could be Charlie's Dad - bet he looks extra cute with his trim ...... But then I am biased towards dogs that look like Charlie.


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## BFrancs

so sorry to hear about Logan - Poor Baby. Please give him extra hugs and kisses from all of us. I pray for a speedy recovery!


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## Laurief

Little buddy - he cant run off, the yard is fenced, but it is a spit rail with a mesh wire so he can see the deer but cant actually get to them.


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## Zarika

I like the pillowcase idea. They also make actual specialty backend harnesses for that. They work a little better with a smaller dog b/c you can order long harnesses.


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## lfung5

Poor Logan! I am so sorry Laurie. When Fred got his patella surgery he was in a cast. I did the same thing as you before surgery and cut his coat down. 

I put down a carpet remnant in my dining room and baby gated him in there away from my other guys. This way he wouldn't jump up onto any couches. He had his bed, water and toys in there. At night, he was crated. He even did well with potty. I was afraid because he wouldn't be able to use the dog door but he just held it until I carried him out. He had to be on a leash for months, because he was not allowed to run.

They suggested swimming for therapy but I just walked him. I built up his walks from a few minutes a day eventually to his normal 45-60 min. I made sure I did hills. When he went back to surgeon he said Fred was doing great with the therapy I was doing

Good luck


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## sandypaws

Laurief said:


> That is interesting with Tramadol - Logan has been on it since Thursday am and has not problems. In fact it seems to be helping him considerable! I am so glad he is not having any reactions. The Orthopedic Surgeon said that he will be in horrible pain the first few days so he will have a pain patch but I am sure he will need Tramadol later on when he starts therapy.
> 
> He just got his shortie haircut and actually he looks really cute. Almost like a totally different dog.
> 
> Thanks for the support guys, I am sure that I will need all the advise I can get when the time comes. 10 1/2 years with Havanese, and this is our first injury/surgery that we have had to deal with .


So glad that the Tramadol is working for Logan. When Tyler was on it after his injury, he wouldn't eat at all and looked as though he was drugged. His eyes were so glassy that it scared me, so I stopped it on my own. He continued on Rimadyl for a week without any ill effects. Currently he is not on any meds and just takes Cosequin DS which is chondrotin and glucosamine and he's been taking for about 4 years or so.
Logan will certainly be in pain with orthopedic surgery so I'm glad he's doing well with the Tramadol and I'm sure he'll need the pain patch even more. When he does begin his rehab, which will keep you very busy, they may actually give you or suggest one of those slings to hold up his back end when he has to go out. It looks as though Logan has a great private place to recuperate. He can keep an eye on what's going on around him but be safe by himself.
BTW, this was our first injury in 16 years as Havanese owners. No surgeries other than neutering, thankfully.


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## lfung5

I forgot to mention fred had a bad reaction to one of the pain meds. It made him very anxious so we ended up taking him off it.


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## sandypaws

Lalla said:


> Oh, Laurief and Mary, if you can bear it, please do post your correspondence publicly, I know we'd all like to know what you are saying, how Logan is doing, and what advice you have, Mary - if that might be alright? Re Tramadol - I had the same experience with Pamba, my first Coton; she reacted dreadfully badly to it and I took her off it, with my vet's agreement, except when things were really really bad.


Staying public works for me, Lalla.


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## Colbie

Sorry to hear and hoping for a successful surgery and a quick recovery.


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## maya1

Hope he feels better soon. He is beautiful


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## krandall

Poor Logan, and poor you! All fingers and toes crossed for him! I bet he's cute as a button in his new shot "do", and the last thing you want to be fussing with is grooming while you are working on his recovery!


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## Laurief

Well I might have spoken too quickly, Logan barely ate his breakfast this am. The vet suggested giving him pepcid for his belly so I think that I will try that. I dont want to take him off the pain meds, if he is in pain  

Lalla - public works fine for me too, I just dont want to bore anyone! 

Karen, he does look cute with is shortie haircut, and in fact I cut Lexi down too so I dont have to worry about her coat either during this time. 

Linda, I am going to have you come and walk Logan for me  since I cant go for walks yet. I overdid yesterday and am back in an ace bandage so need to cut back on my activity as well for now. the specialist did not say anything about a cast but I doubt he is getting one as she said he will need a cone so he does not lick the stitches. My poor baby is just going to be so miserable it is breaking my heart just thinking about it.


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## Lalla

Laurief said:


> Well I might have spoken too quickly, Logan barely ate his breakfast this am. The vet suggested giving him pepcid for his belly so I think that I will try that. I dont want to take him off the pain meds, if he is in pain
> 
> Lalla - public works fine for me too, I just dont want to bore anyone!
> 
> Karen, he does look cute with is shortie haircut, and in fact I cut Lexi down too so I dont have to worry about her coat either during this time.
> 
> Linda, I am going to have you come and walk Logan for me  since I cant go for walks yet. I overdid yesterday and am back in an ace bandage so need to cut back on my activity as well for now. the specialist did not say anything about a cast but I doubt he is getting one as she said he will need a cone so he does not lick the stitches. My poor baby is just going to be so miserable it is breaking my heart just thinking about it.


You couldn't possibly bore anyone, Laurief, I'm sure we all desperately want to keep up with what is happening. I am SO sorry you are having such an awful time. Your baby WILL be miserable, but can I just add one note of optimism - he will recover, Laurief; he'll be ok. Having gone through two years of nursing a dog I knew would die, at least with these sorts of things there is hope and optimism, and you are working towards a good outcome, not a total stop. Be strong, I know you will be, and I know you'll have bad days where you doubt your own strength, but things will eventually get better for your boy. Just keep on sharing your feelings with us - it helps to share - and don't ever think you could be boring.


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## FancyNancy

so sorry Laurie! But - to echo everyone else because we all know it's true - Logan has the best mom in the world and a fantastic support system. No dog would have a better chance of coming though this unscathed. Sending good thoughts your way -


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## Atticus

oh dear so sorry but i opened this (sad news in our house) afraid that you had "lost" one of your dogs so I was relieved he was "only" hurt. What a drag for you all! best wishes for a quick recovery!


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## Laurief

Sorry JOdy - I didnt realize that but I guess it sounds bad.


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## shimpli

Ohh Laurie, I am so sorry this happened to sweet Logan. Poor boy! I hope everything goes as smooth as possible for him. Keep us posted. Hugs.


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## Lalla

Nothing much, just to say 'thinking of you all' and to send love,
Lalla


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## Laurief

Andra - I have been thinking about your suggestion and I decided that I love the idea of letters to his friends at the nursing home, with pictures and updates. Once he is feeling better, I think I will take him to visit in the stroller. Thanks so much for the idea. 

Alison - thanks for the good wishes from DVHC  

In fact I think the pillowcase idea is really good. I have some extra king size pillow cases that I might cut up to help with potty time.


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## Lily528

Just sending wishes for Logan's recovery, hope it goes well!


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## Thumper

Laurie  :grouphug: I'm so sorry the lil' guy got hurt. And I didn't see this sooner.. 

We'll be sending lots of love and healing vibes your way. Give Little Lo' a big kiss from Gucci :kiss:

Kara


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## Laurief

Well we made it thru the first issue. Logan had his teeth cleaned today. He is groggy/loopy but doing good. They did the surgery early because of the blizzard that has hit. We have over a foot of snow and it is still coming down hard!!


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad

Here's a :hug: from me.

Here's a :kiss: from Gibbs

Here's hoping Logan will :bounce: back in no time.


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## Lalla

So pleased to hear that the teeth-cleaning went well, and do hope Logan is bearing up, ditto you. Lots of love from Cuba and me.


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## DawnH

I'm so sorry. It's so hard to see the sick and in pain. Hoping for the best and a quick recovery.


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## Pixiesmom

Poor poor boy. Please know that we are praying for your complete recovery!!!!


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## Lalla

Thinking of you Laurie and Logan, and wondering when the next surgery is scheduled for? I do hope poor Logan is managing, and that you are alright.
Love and thoughts from Cuba and me, and Tycho says "Coton love from me!"


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## Laurief

Logan's leg surgery is scheduled for Monday morning. I am going out today to buy him a nice big cushy flat bed for him to rest on when he comes home.


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## Lalla

Laurief said:


> Logan's leg surgery is scheduled for Monday morning. I am going out today to buy him a nice big cushy flat bed for him to rest on when he comes home.


Logan is so unlucky to have had this happen to him, but so very lucky to have you.


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## gelbergirl

Laurief said:


> Logan's leg surgery is scheduled for Monday morning. I am going out today to buy him a nice big cushy flat bed for him to rest on when he comes home.


Can you order an LLBean bed? Some are orthopedic, would that be better for him?


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## sandypaws

Laurief said:


> Logan's leg surgery is scheduled for Monday morning. I am going out today to buy him a nice big cushy flat bed for him to rest on when he comes home.


Best of luck to you and Logan, Laurie. A big, cushy bed sounds wonderful. My firend's dog is going in for his second spinal surgery in a couple of weeks and she's facing an 8-12 week period of quiet and rest with her again. It's not easy but can and must be done. My thoughts and prayers are with you both. Please keep us all posted.


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## mckennasedona

I haven't visited the forum (logged in anyway) for a very long time but thought I'd take a look and I saw your thread Laurie. I'll be wishing you and Logan all the best. I went through the same thing with Sedona in July. She tore her ACL and had surgery. She had a TWO (Tibial Wedge Osteotomy) repair by an orthopedic surgeon. The recovery period was tough but we followed instructions to the letter and I am happy to say she healed up very, very well. Ice packs help the swelling and bruising and after that goes away, heat helps loosen tight muscles as do very gentle range of motion exercises. Keep ahead of the pain as that's easier than chasing it. Best of luck to you!


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## sandypaws

mckennasedona said:


> I haven't visited the forum (logged in anyway) for a very long time but thought I'd take a look and I saw your thread Laurie. I'll be wishing you and Logan all the best. I went through the same thing with Sedona in July. She tore her ACL and had surgery. She had a TWO (Tibial Wedge Osteotomy) repair by an orthopedic surgeon. The recovery period was tough but we followed instructions to the letter and I am happy to say she healed up very, very well. Ice packs help the swelling and bruising and after that goes away, heat helps loosen tight muscles as do very gentle range of motion exercises. Keep ahead of the pain as that's easier than chasing it. Best of luck to you!


Don't want to hijack Laurie and Logan's thread, but I think this is along the same lines.

Tyler tore his ACL in August at the age of 16 and because of his advanced age, we opted out of surgery which was agreed to by the emergency room vet as well as our own. He did 12 weeks of PT, with massages, range of motion exercises, core exercises and therapy on the water treadmill. We also used heat before exercising and ice after. He has done very well, can walk fine and RLH with the best of them. In his case, I chose not to use the Tramadol because he wouldn't eat and appeared to be drugged. Not the dog I knew! I also stopped the Rimadyl with great success. He takes Cosequin DS and has for a few years and doesn't even have the stiffness they told me he would have due to arthritis setting in in that joint. I signed him up for 8 more PT sessions this winter on the land treadmill and also bought him a doggie treadmill for home. He has done amazing for a 16 1/2 year old or for that matter amazing for any age. It was pretty scary in the beginning, however, as he couldn't get any traction on our wood floors and just kept collapsing until I made a trail for him from one room to the next with all my braided area carpets.

Glad to hear that Sedona has done well also.


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## RickR

Logan, feel better soon. Max and Bess sends lot of licks.


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## TilliesMom

Oh my gosh Laurie I am so very sorry to hear this news!!!
Praying for a smooth surgery and a quick recovery... that puppy pen sure is going to come it handy!!! ((((hugs)))


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## Laurief

Thanks for the. Info Susan. They are talking About laser treatment to reduce the inflammation & pain but I will be sure to follow the directions to a tea! I bought an orthopedic bed for Logan today. Hopefully that will help him. 

Mary, you were so lucky Tyler is doing so well ! I wish we could have that option but sadly the orthopedic specialist says there is no choice.


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## Mouse

So sorry about Logan. Hope he has a safe surgery and his recovery is not to hard on him.


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## shimpli

Hello Laurie! Checking on Logan. How was surgery? I hope he is doing ok and recovers nicely from surgery. Keep us posted!


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## krandall

Yes! We all are worrying about your little guy! Let us know when you have the time!!!

I have another friend whose Keeshond Ruptured her ACL in the summer, had the surgery, did well, had JUST returned to work (she's an obedience dog) went out, slipped on the ice and tore her other one. This second wasn't a complete rupture, but they still felt surgery was her best option for complete soundness. She's having her surgery tomorrow. As my friends said, she's run out of back legs now, so after this, she should be fine! 

Kodi and I are keeping all fingers toes and paws crossed for Logan!


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## Lalla

Thinking of you, Laurie and Logan, and wondering, as are we all, how things are going. You are probably up to your eyes with looking after your boy, and too busy to post for now; just know that you are in all our thoughts. 
Bucket-loads of well-wishings from Cuba and Tycho and me.
Lalla


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## Laurief

Morning guys -thanks for checking in. Logan is not home yet. He had his surgery yesterday afternoon and we cannot pick him up till later today. 
The surgeon called to say she had to totally rebuild the cruciate, repair to the ACL and deepened the groove of the patella. Thankfully she did not have to put in pins!! 

she said that she wants him up and about pretty much right away. We need to schedule his physical therapy, laser treatments, and and she highly recommends him taking Dasuquin and getting Adequan injections. 

Has anyone heard of Adequan injections? And if so, how have they helped your dog??

I will let you all know later tonight how my boy is doing.


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## Lalla

Thinking of you SO much Laurie! Here's a link to info about Adequan, which you've probably already seen:

http://www.1800petmeds.com/Adequan-prod10721.html

It seems, judging from the majority of links, to be used mostly for equine treatment - Karen Randall might have some knowledge of it?

You will have a tough road to Logan's recovery, but you sound like the best of owners, and he is so lucky to be in such capable hands. So happy to know that the operation went well and that he's through that milestone. Please do keep us posted, and I know you know that you have much, much support here.


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## littlebuddy

My friend uses Adequan for her bichon's arthritis and it works well but I believe it has a side effect of sleepiness.


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## fandances

I hope Logan's recovery goes well. Sending healing thoughts.


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## pjewel

Laurie, I just read through this whole thread and though it breaks my heart, I was terrified at first that the news was even worse. Sending hugs to you both and healing to your sweet little boy. I'll be checking in for any updates.


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## krandall

Laurief said:


> Morning guys -thanks for checking in. Logan is not home yet. He had his surgery yesterday afternoon and we cannot pick him up till later today.
> The surgeon called to say she had to totally rebuild the cruciate, repair to the ACL and deepened the groove of the patella. Thankfully she did not have to put in pins!!
> 
> she said that she wants him up and about pretty much right away. We need to schedule his physical therapy, laser treatments, and and she highly recommends him taking Dasuquin and getting Adequan injections.
> 
> Has anyone heard of Adequan injections? And if so, how have they helped your dog??
> 
> I will let you all know later tonight how my boy is doing.


Glad to hear it's over and he's doing well! I don't have any experience in dogs, but we use Adequan all the time with horses.


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## krandall

Lalla said:


> Thinking of you SO much Laurie! Here's a link to info about Adequan, which you've probably already seen:
> 
> http://www.1800petmeds.com/Adequan-prod10721.html
> 
> It seems, judging from the majority of links, to be used mostly for equine treatment - Karen Randall might have some knowledge of it?
> 
> You will have a tough road to Logan's recovery, but you sound like the best of owners, and he is so lucky to be in such capable hands. So happy to know that the operation went well and that he's through that milestone. Please do keep us posted, and I know you know that you have much, much support here.


Ha! I just posted that we use it frequently with horses. In horse-size doses its a pretty expensive maintenance drug, though.


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## gelbergirl

_Glad to read Logan is heading into recovery._


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## krandall

littlebuddy said:


> My friend uses Adequan for her bichon's arthritis and it works well but I believe it has a side effect of sleepiness.


It is definitely not sedating in horses&#8230; If it were, we wouldn't be able to use it. Anything that alters them mentally is illegal. (because it can put the rider in jeopardy, as well as being unfair to other competitors)


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## sandypaws

Laurief said:


> Morning guys -thanks for checking in. Logan is not home yet. He had his surgery yesterday afternoon and we cannot pick him up till later today.
> The surgeon called to say she had to totally rebuild the cruciate, repair to the ACL and deepened the groove of the patella. Thankfully she did not have to put in pins!!
> 
> she said that she wants him up and about pretty much right away. We need to schedule his physical therapy, laser treatments, and and she highly recommends him taking Dasuquin and getting Adequan injections.
> 
> Has anyone heard of Adequan injections? And if so, how have they helped your dog??
> 
> I will let you all know later tonight how my boy is doing.


Glad to hear that it's over and that he did well during the surgery. You will now have your work cut out for you and so will Logan. Don't know anything about the meds but have unfortunately become an expert with PT and rehab. It's really good for them and does work. Good luck, Laurie, and keep us all posted. You are in our thoughts.


----------



## Laurief

We just got home at 7pm. Poor guy is very uncomfortable and whining. We are waiting for his pain pill to kick in so I can do an ice pack on him. I pray that he has a good night. 

Will post pics tomorrow.


----------



## shimpli

Poor baby. I hope you both have a good night. Feel better soon, Logan!


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## Tom King

We're all pulling for a speedy recovery here!!!!


----------



## RickR

Logan get better soon. So sorry you have to go through this.
Laurie, Max goes once a month for the laser and injection treatment.
Both his ACLs went out at different times and we did not want surgery because
of the thyroid cancer he had. It has made a big difference. I think he went every week
for 6 weeks and then once a month. They also massage his legs.


----------



## Laurief

Well we made it through the night - lots of whining until his pain meds kicked in. This morning was so sad - he was whining a lot. Poor guy is not used to being restricted in a pen so he is not happy. Thankfully he ate well, and is allowing me to pop into him easily. Here are two pics I took this am. The incision looks good, but the bruising on the inside of the knee looks very painful.


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## krandall

Poor little guy! Feel better, Logan!


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## whimsy

ouch...awww I feel bad for him! Hope he gets better soon. Thank goodness for pain meds!


----------



## Gibbs Mom and Dad

Hang in there. Although the recovery process may be long at difficult at times, Logan will recover and be back to his old self. Eventually (and hopefully), this accident and recovery will be a distant memory in a long and happy life together.


----------



## sandypaws

Feel better, Logan. I feel so bad for you. And, Laurie, I know how hard this is on you. It's so heartbreaking when they are in such pain and don't understand what's happening. Be strong!


----------



## Lalla

Oooh, poor baby; but day by day things will improve, Laurie; you are on the road, and past the op, and Logan will begin to be his old self, little by little. Thinking of you SO much. When Pamba, my Coton, was so ill I got some of that DAP spray - I can't honestly say either way whether it was good or not for her, but I can truthfully report that it had a brilliant calming effect on ME!!! Seriously. I still puff a shoosh of it my way in moments of stress!! Don't laugh!! I'm obviously susceptible to brood bitch pheromones, or whatever it is supposed to be made up of!!! 

I have a friend who, when she is feeling low, says that what she needs is an 'accurate hug', not a sloppy, all-over-the-place take it or leave it hug, a really accurate one: so accurate hugs to you and a very carefully placed and gentle one to Logan.


----------



## Laurief

OK Lalla I did laugh - :sorry: - that is just so funny! 

I discovered that a lot of his whining today had nothing to do with pain, but not wantin to be in the xpen. I went upstairs to my office to work and he literally "howled"! It was so pathetic. So I had to carry him upstairs to a bed under my desk. 

I am starting to think that I spoil my guys a bit too much


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## RitaandRiley

Ouch! Here's hoping you heal quickly, Logan! No Laurie, your dogs are not spoiled, they're just well cared for!


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## Lalla

Laurief said:


> OK Lalla I did laugh - :sorry: - that is just so funny!
> 
> I discovered that a lot of his whining today had nothing to do with pain, but not wantin to be in the xpen. I went upstairs to my office to work and he literally "howled"! It was so pathetic. So I had to carry him upstairs to a bed under my desk.
> 
> I am starting to think that I spoil my guys a bit too much


I'm not sure we can spoil them too much immediately after the trauma of an accident and an operation, and sometimes I don't think it's a criminal act to give in to spoiling just because it makes US feel better - we deserve that kind of spoiling for ourselves from time to time, don't you think? It's dreadful when they howl like miniature wolves! It makes me laugh, too, in a way, it's so pitiful! And I'm glad I made you laugh, Laurie, at a time when I don't suppose you are managing to do much of that.


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## pjewel

Oh, poor baby. I hope he starts healing quickly so you both can rest a little. I'm sure being right there with you helps. I'll be watching for Logan updates. Sending him hugs.


----------



## lfung5

Poor Logan! The pictures bring me back to Fred's surgery. I can't believe no cast. The cast was a blessing because it restricted him more. Plus he couldn't bend his leg at all.

Kisses to Logan!


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## Atticus

UGG so sorry, my gordon setter had ACL surgery, no fun! That med that has a sleepiness factor may be a good thing! Hang in there!


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## littlebuddy

Poor baby. I hope he has good days and nights during recovery.


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## My2Havs

>>Has anyone heard of Adequan injections? And if so, how have they helped your dog??<<

Yes, our Golden Retriever took it for more than a year before he passed. He had arthritis and hip dysplasia and around age 11 he had a hard time getting up from a laying position and also was just not as quick on our walks. We tried at least 3 other drugs first with no success until we started these injections. It is expensive because you have to start by loading up with the doses (I think we did twice a week, then once a week, then every other week, etc) but eventually it's only once a month. We considered it a miracle that he did so well on it. And he never had any side effects.

So sorry to read about poor Logan, I'm sure under your care that he will recover as quick as any dog can. Give him extra hugs and kisses from...
Monica, Dooley & Roxie


----------



## Laurief

We decided to hold off on the Adequan at this time to see how he heals. If needed we will start, and I will learn how to do the injections myself. We are also starting him on Dasequin. 
Yesterday he ate like a horse, and today he is refusing to eat. Eating has NEVER EVER been an issue for him. Hopefully when his morning pain meds kick in, he will get his appetite back. 
He also was restless last night, which makes me wonder if his pain patch (which comes off tonight) is running out of "juice" 

I have to go to the grocery store today so it will be the first time I am leaving him. hopefully he will settle down and not howl the whole time I am gone.


----------



## Gibbs Mom and Dad

Laurief said:


> I am starting to think that I spoil my guys a bit too much


:hand:

Nonsense I tell you, nonsense!!!!

:thumb:


----------



## Lalla

I had to learn to give injections to my Coton, and gave them twice a day for months, Laurie; it's actually far easier than you might imagine. I was dreading it, but learned really quickly, and she was so good about it. 
Re appetite: don't forget that the meds themselves can depress the appetite sometimes…don't know if Logan's do specifically, but it could be a contributing factor? Hope you manage to get to the grocery store and back without a major Howlin' Wolf situation!


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## Laurief

had a LONG conversation with the specialist and they agreed that he is in lots of pain, and they put him on an additional pain medication and they told me to leave the pain patch on till Saturday night. He did better once he got on it but had a restless night last night. 
He is not eating his regular food - but is happy to eat rotisserie chicken - lol 
he is such a bugger. 

I look forward to him having a laser treatment today - that helps with pain and inflammation.


----------



## jabojenny

Poor Logan, and you! I'm glad he got more pain relief and he's eating what he likes, are the other three getting chicken too? Keep us posted on what laser therapy is like, it sounds interesting and will hopefully help out too. How is Laila doing? You're a busy gal  Keep your chin up.


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## krandall

Let that boy eat WHATEVER he want! :hug:


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## sandypaws

Good luck with the laser treatment and like Jen, will be interested in hearing about it. Hope it helps to manage Logan's pain. Hugs all around from Tyler and me.


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## Cuddles

Oh my. How terrible. Keep us up to date with good news from surgery


----------



## Cuddles

Amen


----------



## Laurief

Here is my Logan this morning in my office. He just finished with the ice pack on the leg. He looks quite drugged to me - lol :flypig:

I asked if we could watch the laser treatment and I was told that we need to wear special glasses, now I have to be sure that HE gets to wear them too!! 

ps- Jen, Laila is good, and yes has been quite busy  :wink::wink:


----------



## emichel

Aww. I hope he feels drugged, for his sake! Maybe he could get some medical marijuana. Or have some white wine with that chicken. Ha ha. Or maybe you could, Laurie. It is so hard to see our babies suffering, but we're all pulling for you, and "this too shall pass". Stay strong!


----------



## Laurief

Check out my sexy guy!!! He had to wear doggles for his laser treatment today.


----------



## Pucks104

Looks like he's laughing about it!


----------



## MarinaGirl

LOL :laugh:


----------



## Gibbs Mom and Dad

Laurief said:


> Check out my sexy guy!!! He had to wear doggles for his laser treatment today.


You say sexy, but I think he looks


----------



## Gibbs Mom and Dad

Gibbs Mom and Dad said:


> You say sexy, but I think he looks


an I love the way he :rockon: in the :mullet:


----------



## gelbergirl

Please tell Logan me and Henry hope he is feeling better. ha ha on the howling


----------



## sandypaws

Logan sure is a cool dude in those glasses. Love Eileen's suggestion about the medical marijuana and/ or the white wine. lol. Seriously, though, Laurie, Tyler looked absolutely stoned when he was taking the Tramadol and so not himself. It was a terrible look.


----------



## Pucks104

sandypaws said:


> Logan sure is a cool dude in those glasses. Love Eileen's suggestion about the medical marijuana and/ or the white wine. lol. Seriously, though, Laurie, Tyler looked absolutely stoned when he was taking the Tramadol and so not himself. It was a terrible look.


Our Zoe was on Tramadol for a year or so due to a back injury. I truly believe that that medication contributed to the kidney disease that eventually claimed her life. If I'd known the eventual outcome I'd have tried to figure out a different way to manage her back pain.


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## lfung5

POOR LOGAN! HIS EYES SAY IT ALL Good thing you covered them up with the shades He looks totally cool. I feel bad for the little guy.


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## sandypaws

Pucks104 said:


> Our Zoe was on Tramadol for a year or so due to a back injury. I truly believe that that medication contributed to the kidney disease that eventually claimed her life. If I'd known the eventual outcome I'd have tried to figure out a different way to manage her back pain.


Good to know, Gena. I only kept him on it for one day because I didn't like the way he looked or acted, plus he would not eat at all. When I took him off, he went back to normal. I also stopped the Rimadyl because I believe that affects the kidneys and/or liver. The Cosequin DS seems to keep him active, pain free and without any stiffness.


----------



## Lalla

Laurief said:


> Here is my Logan this morning in my office. He just finished with the ice pack on the leg. He looks quite drugged to me - lol :flypig:
> 
> I asked if we could watch the laser treatment and I was told that we need to wear special glasses, now I have to be sure that HE gets to wear them too!!
> 
> ps- Jen, Laila is good, and yes has been quite busy  :wink::wink:


Day by day by day it'll get better, Laurie; what a brave boy, what a kind you. PS: every time you say "Laila" I read it as "Lalla" (just shows how we gravitate to our own names!!) and think things like "How does Laurie KNOW I've been quite busy?"!!!)
Thinking of you, and hugs from Cuba and Tycho and me (well, perhaps not Cuba, she's in season so might be a bit too exciting for Logan just now!)


----------



## Laurief

Too funny Lalla, I do the same thing, when I see your name, I "read" Laila. 

Logan is doing much better, no more whining and I have cut back on the tramadol a bit. I hope to be down to 1/2 tablet by tomorrow. He is allowing me to do some physical therapy on the leg without argument. We have removed the cone while he is with us, and is pretty good about leaving the stitches alone. 

We received the sweetest gift yesterday. Jen made this beautiful thick blanket for Logan, and sent it from Mae & Timmy. Logan was happy to get a gift from his niece. :biggrin1:


----------



## Laurief

Here is another


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## krandall

Awww, Logan looks adorable with his new blanket!


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## Lalla

Gorgeous blanket for a brave boy,
xxxLalla


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## sandypaws

Logan does look much better. Not drugged! A reduction in the Tramadol probably helped make him more like his old self. 

Love the blanket Timmy and Mae sent Logan. It looks so comfy and warm. Nice job, Jen.


----------



## Pucks104

Logan looks so cozy in his new blanket ( great job Jen). Hope gets through surgery and back in tip top shape as soon as possible!


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## whimsy

just catching up...so glad to hear he is improving!! That blanket is just beautiful..looks so comforting. Poor little guy has been though so much ..hope he gets a better each day.


----------



## Ruth4Havs

Awww, thats so nice of Jen to make that cozy blanket for Logan!:hug: I am glad to hear he is getting better.


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## gelbergirl

How is Logan today? I like his "L-blankey".


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## Laurief

Logan has his two week check up today, he had already chewed out his stitches(yes he had a cone on the entire time), so they only evaluated him for physical therapy. They did not do the underwater treadmill because he is not putting weight on his bad leg enough. 

We are working with him on rehab, walking, rocking, massaging, laser treatment etc in the hopes that in 2 weeks, he is ready for the water treadmill... They say that it is normal, that he has grown accustomed to walking on 3 legs, and now we need to force him to walk on that 4th leg. Once he starts, he should be fine but we need to let him "see" that it wont hurt him to do so. When they did force him to put weight on it, he was not in any pain at all, so he is just being stubborn! So we work on that for the next two weeks. 

My son WAS staying home, end of this week, to be with Logan, so hubby and I can go to SC to check out hotels, restaurants etc for our other son's wedding there in October. Sad to say, we had to postpone for another week (this is the second postponement), because we expect another 8-10 inches of snow, on top of the about 15 inches we already have!!!!!! I am SO DONE with living in the northeast!!!!! 

Thanks to all for thinking and asking about Logan. We still have a long haul ahead of us, but he does not seem to be in any pain anymore, so that makes me happy!~


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## littlebuddy

I'm so happy to hear he's coming along.


----------



## sandypaws

Laurief said:


> Logan has his two week check up today, he had already chewed out his stitches(yes he had a cone on the entire time), so they only evaluated him for physical therapy. They did not do the underwater treadmill because he is not putting weight on his bad leg enough.
> 
> We are working with him on rehab, walking, rocking, massaging, laser treatment etc in the hopes that in 2 weeks, he is ready for the water treadmill... They say that it is normal, that he has grown accustomed to walking on 3 legs, and now we need to force him to walk on that 4th leg. Once he starts, he should be fine but we need to let him "see" that it wont hurt him to do so. When they did force him to put weight on it, he was not in any pain at all, so he is just being stubborn! So we work on that for the next two weeks.
> 
> My son WAS staying home, end of this week, to be with Logan, so hubby and I can go to SC to check out hotels, restaurants etc for our other son's wedding there in October. Sad to say, we had to postpone for another week (this is the second postponement), because we expect another 8-10 inches of snow, on top of the about 15 inches we already have!!!!!! I am SO DONE with living in the northeast!!!!!
> 
> Thanks to all for thinking and asking about Logan. We still have a long haul ahead of us, but he does not seem to be in any pain anymore, so that makes me happy!~


Hope things will move along for Logan. One of the exercises I had to do with Tyler to get him to put weight on his bad right back leg was to hold his left leg up, thus forcing him to stand on his bad leg. I gradually extended the time each day. Now he has no problem standing on his two back legs with his two front legs up as he dances for his food or calls me to get out of bed at 5:30 am. Ugh! He had his last land treadmill session at the rehab facility today and will now continue on his home treadmill. He's been going to rehab for 5 months, using both the water and land treadmills. I hope Logan has as good a result as Tyler has had. I'm thinking of you and wishing you and Logan well.


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## Laurief

Thanks Mary, I sure hope that Logan has good results like Tyler. Yes, one of his therapies is the same, to lift the right rear leg so he puts weight on the left one. He is being very stubborn,


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## jabojenny

Laurief said:


> He is being very stubborn,


Didn't you see that coming? :laugh: He has to live with a house full of sisters give the guy a break. I'm so happy he's getting better, stubborn or not.


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## Jan D

I'm glad to hear Logan is doing well, the little bugger! Hopes for a continued good recovery. I'm sure once the weather improves he will be running around like before. Hugs and kisses to him!!


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## Lalla

Just caught up with this thread again, and am so happy to hear that Logan is doing well. Cuba sends tail-wags and greetings from the UK. From me, too - well, the greetings, not the tail wags...!


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## krandall

I just caught up today too. Logan's story reminded my of a border collie that lived on the horse farm where I worked many years ago. She got a broken leg (unauthorized herding of horses is hazardous! ) and was in a cast for a few weeks. When they took the cast off, she refused to walk on that leg. In fact, she would roll on her back and wave the "hurt" paw in the air, looking for sympathy.

Of course, there wasn't any such thing as physical therapy for dogs back then. They hardly did it for people unless you'd broken your back or something! So the vets novel answer to the situation was to put a cast on the other leg. She only had it on for about a week, but it got her using the "bad" leg again. She would still offer us the (perfectly fine) leg in the cast looking for sympathy. 

When they removed the second cast, she had trouble remembering which was the "sore one", and would start hoping around on 3 legs, but not always the right three!!! Silly girl just wanted sympathy and the cookies that came along WITH the sympathy! :laugh:


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## RitaandRiley

Great story, Karen!


----------



## Milo's Mom

We had walking issues with both of her dogs: Brookie with a broken leg and Milo post Leggs Calves disease surgery. Neither one of them wanted to walk on the affected leg, and both of them hated the water treadmill. The physical therapist suggested that we walk them up and down small hills. This worked with both dogs. In order to go up and down, they needed to put the target leg down. We would do this with them several times a day. It worked slowly but surely.


----------



## Laurief

I realized that it has been a while since I updated you guys on Logan. Things are a little crazy here - we are expecting a litter next week - and Logan is till going for physical therapy. 

He is 7 weeks post surgery - and although his laser treatments are done, he still has a few water treadmill treatments left. Here is a picture (sorry it is fuzzy) of him at therapy. 

He is coming along nicely - the docs say that the MORE we make him use the leg, the better, so that it strengthens. He is a little stubborn about doing his therapy all the time, but all in all he is doing well. I cannot stress enough, how tired I am :frusty::frusty: of having him on leash all the time, and carrying him up and down stairs - but I hope he can start doing stairs soon.


----------



## whimsy

aw...sweet baby. Sounds like you have a full plate at your house. It's good to hear that he is doing better and I will keep a positive thought that he will be using the stair soon. Thanks for the update...take care of yourself!


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## krandall

I know you're tired, and puppies aren't going to make that any easier. But they will bring some joy into your house, I'm sure!


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## RickR

Happy Logan is doing better.
Puppies coming!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sandypaws

Oh, Laurie, I know exactly how you are feeling. PT twice a week, plus exercises at home, which Tyler was very stubborn about most of the time too, can be exhausting enough without prepping for a new litter of pups. So glad that Logan is doing well and you will finally see a day when he can do the stairs. Unfortunately with Tyler, we cannot let him use the stairs due to his limited vision and, of course, his ramp is totally off limits due to his athletics! Thus, for the rest of his life, he will be carried in and out and this cold, snowy winter has been especially challenging. It's not so great standing outside in frigid conditions with snow and ice waiting for him to take care of business. He loves to dilly dally.
Logan's picture in the "tank" came out exactly the same as Tyler's ....fuzzy. You just can't get good photos shooting through that glass. Chin up, there is a light at the end of the tunnel and best of,luck with the new pups.


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## Pixiesmom

Go Logan! 
You are a wonderful dog mom Laurie.


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## Jan D

Hang in there Laurie, if anyone can do it you can!! Can't wait to see your new litter!


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## Lalla

Just caught up again, Laurie; glad to hear Logan is doing well, sorry you are so tired, but hope the puppies, tiring though they will be too, will keep your spirits up - maybe they have already arrived? I don't expect you'll have time for a bit to post photos, but when you do....!!! We shall all love to see them, I'm sure. Lots of good transatlantic thoughts coming your way, Logan's way, and the puppies' way from Cuba and Tycho and me.


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## Rileys Mom

A year ago, my 12-year old Riley blew out his knee, while running with two BIG German Shepherds after a ball. I saw it happen, while he was up in the air, he gave a "yelp" and couldn't get up afterwards. Had a TTA performed. The 16-week rehab was rough, because Riley can get out of anything, so I basically put life on hold and sat with him. Finally, everything was good (except for the 10 pounds I gained), for about 7 months, until he had a bump develop down closer to his ankle. He was having a reaction to a plate that was down there, so he had to go back in and have it removed. That was okay, they said, because he had healed enough that he no longer needed it. This infection was rare, but not unheard of. He did well after that surgery, and it was a much shorter recovery.

Almost exactly a year after his original surgery (and before his hair was even grown back from surgery #2), he blew out his other knee. He was in the house, and I noticed he was suddenly having trouble walking. Now he is 13, and last week, had TTA on his other knee. A friend had warned me that his Lab ended up having both done, because all the pressure is put on the good leg, and, like in humans, it stresses it.

The one good (?) thing in all this is that during admission for the 3rd surgery, a heart murmur was found early. Knee surgery was postponed for a day while a heart specialist was called in for scans, and he was placed on heart meds before too much damage was done. I live in a rural area, and all this complicated stuff is being done 5 hours away in a big city where they have specialists & equipment we don't have here...so I am trying to look on the bright side. Unfortunately, we don't have dog physical therapy here...maybe that would have helped the second knee. Riley's PT is just me and range of motion instructions.

So...TRY to not let a TTA dog ever get too wild after the surgery...altho with Hav's that is almost impossible...and to everyone....this B2 murmur was NOT detected by two different (and competent) vets only weeks before it WAS located...they can develop quickly. I wonder if it was because of two prior surgeries on an older (but amazingly healthy) dog...but I'll never know, and didn't have alternatives anyway. At least, we're quickly on top of the heart condition, and since this is only Week 2 after the knee surgery, I am again battling Riley to stay confined cause he's not allowed to walk around--I see another 16 weeks and ten pounds on my horizon...but Riley is worth it!


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## krandall

I have several friends with dogs who have needed ACL repairs. They are all larger dogs, but every single one of them has had to have the second knee done at some point. It's partly because they stress the other knee when the first is hurt, and it's partly that if their conformation predisposes them to the first tear, it is very likely they have a similar conformation in the other hind leg. 

They jokingly say that the good news is that then the dog is "out of knees" so no more problems.


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## Suzi

Well Mr Logan looks happy doing his water therapy. I was excited to read about a third litter! That is exciting and I know you will find the energy to care for a few more four legged friends.<3


----------



## Rileys Mom

Thanks...I'm currently searching for good news...and you have a good point. Actually, now I am more worried about the heart than the knee. We've weathered one, I guess we'll get through two. This heart thing really scares me, though. Everything I read says Havs have a 13 to 15 year lifespan...and I've been dreading this 13th year for half a decade--now this! I do love this dog!!


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## Lalla

commiserations to Riley, it is so hard when health issues clobber our precious dogs; it makes me feel lucky that my twice-a-week vet trips for two years were only an hour each way.

I was wondering, Laurie, how Logan is? And the puppies? 

love to all from Lalla and Cuba and Tycho


----------



## krandall

Rileys Mom said:


> Thanks...I'm currently searching for good news...and you have a good point. Actually, now I am more worried about the heart than the knee. We've weathered one, I guess we'll get through two. This heart thing really scares me, though. Everything I read says Havs have a 13 to 15 year lifespan...and I've been dreading this 13th year for half a decade--now this! I do love this dog!!


Don't start counting the days yet! Tyler is 17 and Twinkle is 17 1/2. We've had several members in the past with 15 and 16 year old dogs.

Also, you might want to read Mary's thread on Tyler's ACL tear. Because it wasn't a complete rupture, and because of his age, they decided to try a conservative approach first with physical therapy. Tyler did wonderfully. This probably isn't as "strong" a fix, and probably wouldn't be the best choice for a younger, more active or larger dog, but Tyler has done great!!! He is sound on that leg and has shown no sign of arthritis settling in.


----------



## sandypaws

Rileys Mom said:


> Thanks...I'm currently searching for good news...and you have a good point. Actually, now I am more worried about the heart than the knee. We've weathered one, I guess we'll get through two. This heart thing really scares me, though. Everything I read says Havs have a 13 to 15 year lifespan...and I've been dreading this 13th year for half a decade--now this! I do love this dog!!


Karen response is right on the money regarding Tyler and his recovery. I was told by his vet and PT that he has has the same outcome as dogs who have surgery. No issues and he can still RLH, although I don't want him too. The only thing that has changed in his case since his accident a year ago August is that we now do not trust him on his ramp or the stairs and thus have been carrying him in and out ever since. It's not that he isn't able to do it, but he can't be trusted to use either properly as he wants to jump. In fact, this Tuesday we brought him back to his former rehab facility to socialize with his "buddies" and one of the first things he did was head for the ramp which they use for dogs to get into the water treadmill tank. They proceeded to take it away to keep him safe. So have faith that things will go well for Riley.

The other thing I'd like to comment on is the heart murmur that is worrying you, as I've been through that as well. I had a puppy mill rescue Bichon several years ago who had a heart murmur, although I don't know the grade, who had several syncopal episodes during his senior years and lived until we put him down, three months shy of 17. Also, my first Havanese, Bailey, had a heart murmur, again I don't know the grade, since he was young and lived to be 15, although it was finally pericardial effusion (fluid around the heart) that was the cause. Finally, Tyler was diagnosed with a heart murmur, no grade indicated, about four years ago which to this day has remained unchanged and as Karen mentioned he is 17 yrs and 3 mos, I might add. I hope that Riley does as well as my three. Hang in there. They are a tough breed.


----------



## Rileys Mom

SO glad to hear of success stories. On these unstaged heart murmurs, were any of your dogs placed on heart medications? Riley was immediately placed on two...which, while it won't cure the valve problem, they are supposed to slow it down. I hope it slows WAY down!

As far as the knees, I think he will have a good outcome, since he is no kid. I just hope this latest one won't have another plate reaction. Hav's are just so hard to tone down, but he seems to be more cooperative on this second knee's recovery. I do think that each surgery has aged him a little. Before the first one a year ago, he thought he was still a puppy--which is what got him into trouble (competing with the Big Dogs). After each surgery, he sleeps a little more, tears around a little less, and I swear, hears a little less. 

Again....so appreciative of your success stories...I'm starting to feel a little better! Would like to know of any experiences involving (or not) heart meds for valve problems.


----------



## sandypaws

Rileys Mom said:


> SO glad to hear of success stories. On these unstaged heart murmurs, were any of your dogs placed on heart medications? Riley was immediately placed on two...which, while it won't cure the valve problem, they are supposed to slow it down. I hope it slows WAY down!
> 
> As far as the knees, I think he will have a good outcome, since he is no kid. I just hope this latest one won't have another plate reaction. Hav's are just so hard to tone down, but he seems to be more cooperative on this second knee's recovery. I do think that each surgery has aged him a little. Before the first one a year ago, he thought he was still a puppy--which is what got him into trouble (competing with the Big Dogs). After each surgery, he sleeps a little more, tears around a little less, and I swear, hears a little less.
> 
> Again....so appreciative of your success stories...I'm starting to feel a little better! Would like to know of any experiences involving (or not) heart meds for valve problems.


None of my three were placed on medication. I do wish, however, that Bailey had been, as I really felt he had gone into congestive heart failure because about three months before he collapsed, he developed a cough in the morning when he got up and panted after going for a walk even though it wasn't hot. The vet said his heart and lungs sounded clear and perhaps it was allergies such as post nasal drip when awakening in the morning, as he was prone to seasonal allergies. She told me to watch him. Eventually, the cough changed and then he stopped coughing, so we thought all was good. The day we lost.him, I had taken them for a walk, groomed them and brushed their teeth. While I was putting everything away, he walked across the floor and collapsed. We rushed him to the emergency facility as it was a Sunday (as was Tyler's torn ACL). His chest was filled with fluid which they aspirated and were going to keep him overnight and have the cardiologist see him the next day. However, he filled up again, collapsed and couldn't breathe, so by 6:00 that evening, he had to be out down.
I'm not trying to scare you, but just tell you that perhaps if Bailey was on medication, he would have lived even longer. I think the meds are a good thing when warranted. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Rileys Mom

> "I'm not trying to scare you, but just tell you that perhaps if Bailey was on medication, he would have lived even longer. I think the meds are a good thing when warranted. Good luck and keep us posted."


Not to worry...I'm already scared and your sad experience with Bailey gives me hope that maybe Riley will do well on the meds. Thanks so much for sharing.


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## StarrLhasa

This could belong on a new thread, but since you are voicing concern about Riley's age, I thought I would share this website with its tribute pages for the elders of the Havanese world. Rita of Sonrisas Havanese has written on several yahoo groups inviting peope to post photos and stories about their Havanese who are/were older than 15.

Here is a link: http://www.sonrisashavanese.ca/mojoproject.html Starborn's Twinkle is on one of the pages.

************ *Mary*, you are welcome to submit your Tyler, too. *************


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## Laurief

Hi Lalla, 

Thanks for asking about Logan. He is doing fantastic!! I know for a fact that the laser treatments and treadmill helped him tons! He has no limp, no pain, and is back 100% !! He is back doing his pet therapy and just loves his one patient Georgie!

I sure hope Riley is doing better


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## sandypaws

StarrLhasa said:


> This could belong on a new thread, but since you are voicing concern about Riley's age, I thought I would share this website with its tribute pages for the elders of the Havanese world. Rita of Sonrisas Havanese has written on several yahoo groups inviting peope to post photos and stories about their Havanese who are/were older than 15.
> 
> Here is a link: http://www.sonrisashavanese.ca/mojoproject.html Starborn's Twinkle is on one of the pages.
> 
> ************ *Mary*, you are welcome to submit your Tyler, too. *************


Thanks for the info. That's a great website. I can't believe the advanced ages of some of the dogs shown. Amazing!


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## Celesthav

The Webpage is a Beautiful tribute to the longevity of Havanese. Truly Amazing to see and read about each one. Love the comment on HotShot. He still has all his teeth :brushteeth: Must be those great genes.

Yes, Mary, please add Tyler and his adventures. 17 is wonderful! 
Thanks so much for sharing the website. 

Jeanne & Maggie


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## Ollie"s Mom

I loved reading the website on seniors. I'm hoping our little 6 month old lives as long as those guys.


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## Rileys Mom

StarrLhasa said:


> This could belong on a new thread, but since you are voicing concern about Riley's age, I thought I would share this website with its tribute pages for the elders of the Havanese world. Rita of Sonrisas Havanese has written on several yahoo groups inviting peope to post photos and stories about their Havanese who are/were older than 15.
> 
> Thank you for the info....I am feeling better all the time!


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