# Not Going To Stop until I get an answer



## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

Both our Havanese come from the same breeder but different litters. DaniGirl is 10 and Bella is 3. They are normally healthy and happy.

In March we took Dani to the vet because of a hacking cough. After a round of antibiotics we had Dani's teeth cleaned and it was then that the vet found an inflamed tonsil. A couple more rounds of antibiotics and her tonsil was checked again--it was back to normal. But a couple of days after the antibiotics were stopped, the cough came back, but not as bad.

Inflamed tonsils are very rare. Our vet considered cancer as a possibility but when they were back to normal, that was ruled out. She thought bacteria from the teeth could have caused it.

Yesterday we took Bella in for a teeth cleaning. The vet found both of her tonsils very inflamed and a scraping showed they were loaded with bacteria. She did research but could not find a reason for this since it's very rare. Her blood work was normal but the white blood count was close to being low.

Question: has anyone else had this problem? I'm trying to locate a virus or reason for both to have inflamed tonsils.

Background: we have no carpet in the house, I use vinegar and water to clean, they don't spend unnecessary time outside, etc.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Nancy - as strange as it might sound - just ask them to do cultures for Staph. Humans (and I personally believe dogs) can be colonized with staph and it may take a different kind of antibiotic, and a longer treatment. 

Dont let the vet "poo poo" the idea I have lots of personal experience with this!!!!!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Yes, keep the post going until you have answers, it will relieve all of us to know what is going on.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I'd also get a second opinion. Your vet is doing everything right it sounds like, but a fresh perspective and the old, "two heads are better than one" adage might apply here. Whatever the bacteria is, they've shared it but that would be easy to do with dogs since their play always involves mouths and tongues. I hope you get an answer soon! Is there a vet school near you that you might try?


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

The vet said that if this didn't clear things up she'd do a culture. I'm hoping that doesn't have to happen but if it comes back, we'll have it done.

There is vet school that I'm going to contact to see if they know of something going around.

Because of their age difference, they rarely play hard and Dani doesn't chew often on toys. But I've begun washing the toys again in the wash machine. Bella loves when I do that because she waits by the dryer for the toys to be done--I guess there's something special about hot synthetic fur! And I wash their bedding after their weekly bath.

I just KNOW I can't be the only one in the world with this problem and what better place to find information than on this site!


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

Laurief said:


> Nancy - as strange as it might sound - just ask them to do cultures for Staph. Humans (and I personally believe dogs) can be colonized with staph and it may take a different kind of antibiotic, and a longer treatment.
> 
> Dont let the vet "poo poo" the idea I have lots of personal experience with this!!!!!


A few years ago Bella had red, inflamed feet. It was right before my father died and we were busy taking care of him so I didn't pay enough attention to Bella. Well, the vet took a culture at that time and Bella had staph and strep and a fungus on her feet. She had soaps, cream, and other things for it.
After that incident, we began washing their feet after morning walks.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

nancyf said:


> A few years ago Bella had red, inflamed feet. It was right before my father died and we were busy taking care of him so I didn't pay enough attention to Bella. Well, the vet took a culture at that time and Bella had staph and strep and a fungus on her feet. She had soaps, cream, and other things for it.
> After that incident, we began washing their feet after morning walks.


Now that is frightening...I have noticed Sir Winston biting one of his feet, will have to watch that...he will be having a bath today...is there anything you can use to help along the way, I guess you would have to give a foot bath and then a regular bath...


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Nancy, how are their anal glands? I came upon this article about tonsilitis and anal glands...

http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/anal_gland_problems.htm

another thought is all the strange delayed symptoms tick borne diseases cause. I don't know if it is the same in dogs, but I know in humans, Lyme does not always go completely away with one course of antibiotics and cause a host of symptoms.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

One never stops learning...that is interesting information...good to keep for reference, thanks Missy.


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

Missy said:


> Nancy, how are their anal glands? I came upon this article about tonsilitis and anal glands...
> 
> http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/anal_gland_problems.htm
> 
> another thought is all the strange delayed symptoms tick borne diseases cause. I don't know if it is the same in dogs, but I know in humans, Lyme does not always go completely away with one course of antibiotics and cause a host of symptoms.


I also saw that anal gland problems can convey bacteria but they are great in that area. They never mess with their tails.

They don't even come in contact with other dogs. The only outside-yard activity is when we go for walks. I know sickness isn't supposed to be transmitted to humans from dogs, but Bella is a licker. I wondered if she could have picked up some bacteria when she greeted someone? It is a mystery.


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Nancy,

Sorry to hear the problem you are having with Dani and Bella - hope you find out info soon.

Just a thought do they drink water from the faucet or filitered water?

(Hugs)


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Do you feed raw? I've known of some very unusual bacterial problems from people feeding raw. I've never heard of one of these dogs having inflamed tonsils.


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

We don't feed raw. Bella is on Royal Canin SO and Dani is on Wellness Simple, both canned. And we have always used filtered water.

I wash their bowls after the AM and afternoon feeding and the water bowl gets washed in the evening. 

It seems like it has to be a common factor.


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

Inflamed tonsils are pretty common. If you talk to handlers, who regularly look for this, you'd find that many dogs are affected with this. Most times it causes no problems. If a dog goes in for a "debark" (bark softening) often the clinic will ask if you want the tonsils out too and vice versa. About a year ago I took a Sheltie in to have her tonsils removed and the clinic asked if I wanted the "debark" too (Shelties are barkers in general) but I didn't think she needed this.


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

Becky Chittenden said:


> Inflamed tonsils are pretty common. If you talk to handlers, who regularly look for this, you'd find that many dogs are affected with this. Most times it causes no problems. If a dog goes in for a "debark" (bark softening) often the clinic will ask if you want the tonsils out too and vice versa. About a year ago I took a Sheltie in to have her tonsils removed and the clinic asked if I wanted the "debark" too (Shelties are barkers in general) but I didn't think she needed this.


I didn't know it was common. Both our dogs are playful and don't act sick except for the gagging, slight cough, and like in Bella's case, hesitant to eat. I wonder what the dog comes in contact with to get the tonsils inflamed.


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

After more antibiotics and no lasting success, we took Bella in a week ago to have a culture done on the inflamed tonsil. The vet just called and she said it showed a surprising result. I said, oh no, don't tell me nothing showed up and she said, no, that it was ECOLI causing Bella and DaniGirl's problems.

This was very surprising because we wash their feet after walks, they don't eat the same food, and they don't have stool problems. We are trying to discover where this could have come from but the vet did say that they could have gotten this a long while ago.

Wow. I'm off to do some internet searches on ECOLI now.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

nancyf said:


> After more antibiotics and no lasting success, we took Bella in a week ago to have a culture done on the inflamed tonsil. The vet just called and she said it showed a surprising result. I said, oh no, don't tell me nothing showed up and she said, no, that it was ECOLI causing Bella and DaniGirl's problems.
> 
> This was very surprising because we wash their feet after walks, they don't eat the same food, and they don't have stool problems. We are trying to discover where this could have come from but the vet did say that they could have gotten this a long while ago.
> 
> Wow. I'm off to do some internet searches on ECOLI now.


So interesting..keep us informed, please. Good luck.


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## LuckyOne (Sep 3, 2009)

nancyf said:


> After more antibiotics and no lasting success, we took Bella in a week ago to have a culture done on the inflamed tonsil. The vet just called and she said it showed a surprising result. I said, oh no, don't tell me nothing showed up and she said, no, that it was ECOLI causing Bella and DaniGirl's problems.
> 
> This was very surprising because we wash their feet after walks, they don't eat the same food, and they don't have stool problems. We are trying to discover where this could have come from but the vet did say that they could have gotten this a long while ago.
> 
> Wow. I'm off to do some internet searches on ECOLI now.


Good Luck! Please keep us informed.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Do they eat chew bones like flossies, etc? They could be picking up a bug from something like that.


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## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

Yikes! I am glad you are figuring this out. 

This doesn't make me want to give my dogs the Raw Femur bones that they love so much.....


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

irnfit said:


> Do they eat chew bones like flossies, etc? They could be picking up a bug from something like that.


We don't give them chewies of any kind, or bones, etc. I remembered that DaniGirl has a fondness for rabbit droppings. We had one in the yard several months ago and Dani found a few droppings. Maybe that could have been a carrier of E Coli. They share a water bowl and will once in a while share a furry toy and it could have been transferred that way.

I have a phone call into our physician to see if my husband and I need to have medication since we have been exposed to this. While doing internet research on E Coli in dogs, I learned to not let a dog lick the face and to wash hands a lot. I assume that a dog could pick up E Coli from a persons hands--and Bella is a licker.


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