# Very Uncomfortable at the Vet About the Bordatella Vaccine



## sweetlotus (Nov 26, 2008)

I went to the vet a few days ago for Mochi's 2nd set of shots. Even without asking me what shots I wanted to get for Mochi, the vet automatically started taking out different vials and a needle. He was almost about to puncture one of the vials when I said WAIT, what shots are you administering for her today. He told me, parvo, distemper, and bordatella. I responded that I didn't want Mochi to get the bordatella shot. He then proceeded to pressure me and make me feel very uncomfortable. There was another technician in the room holding my puppy up ready for the shot, both of them are looking at me like I am the most ignorant, evil pet owner they have ever seen. 

I explained that I only wanted her to get the core vaccines and he proceeded to lecture me about how the bordatella is a core vaccine and that it was very dangerous for me not to vaccinate her. He asked me about my sources and I told him the internet. I never felt so small before!

After 10 min. of grilling me I finally said, no matter what, I'm not giving her that shot today. However, I will consider what you told me. And then he wrote out a waiver statement on my data sheet and asked me to sign it basically saying that if she catches kennel cough, I won't hold him liable. 

Now I know that no one is a vet on this forum, but please tell me, did I do the right thing??? Obviously if Mochi needs the bordatella shot, I would get it for her in a second. But I wanted to do minimal vaccinations and I'm pretty sure bordatella isn't a core vaccine? 

But lastly, I am really upset with my experience with the vet. Either way, I didn't appreciate the way I was treated and how I just felt incredible pressure to do something I wasn't comfortable with.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

I think you did the right thing- you need to go with your gut and I am proud of you for standing up for Mochi!
When I get the Bordatella done on my puppies, it's done nasally (a liquid in the nose) instead of a shot. If you decide you want to get it done, you can always go back in a week or two and get it. That way if she has a reaction to any of the shots, you will better know which shot it was!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I just spent a whole day with Jean Dodds, DVM yesterday and I don't understand why he said Bortadella was a "core" vaccine, because even though she doesn't say anything against it, the veterinary community doesn't list it as one of their core vaccines.

Bortadella is required almost everywhere if you are ever going to board Mochi, and many classes require it as well. I don't think you need to be especially concerned about this specific vaccine although there _are_ many that should concern you. Bortadella is available by injection or nasal administering. Both are acceptable and work out just fine, although you will hear various schools of thought against one or the other.

Lastly, I prefer to get vaccines administered separately. Just in case the dog has a reaction, you can tell which vaccine was the cause. Small breeds are documented to to have an increased risk for adverse reactions, so you might as well space them out to document which one causes trouble, if it does at all.

As for your vet, I wouldn't support any business person who can't be professional and respectful.


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## NewHavMom (Mar 20, 2008)

You go girl! I too believe in not over vaccinating our animals. I agree if the dog is not going to be in an environment that kennel cough may be an issue I would not give the dog a shot. I love Gizmo more than anything! I certainly would never make a decision that would in any way jeopardize his health. When I wasn't happy with the Dr's care of my children I had no problem finding another that was better. I would do the same for my dog!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Good to be tough and sounds like you remembered you are Mochi's only voice. You just have to do your own research and find out what is right for you but definitely take in consideration your area and lifestyle. After my move, I recently had to take my maltese in for a dental procedure and I knew I would have trouble in my small town about finding a vet but I actually found one that listened to me and let me tell you how different that felt! He actually was quiet enough to listen (a lot just talk talk talk) when I brought up the issue of anesthesia and what I wanted, he originally told me there was going to be a surcharge but he would do it, when I picked her up he said it was nice to find someone that cares so much about animals as he has been having a lot of drop offs and he didn't charge me. He didn't beat me up over not vaccinating and he stopped the selling about pet foods when I told him I fed raw. While ideally I would prefer a good holistic vet, I do need one close to me so I was excited that this vet would even listen to me and he just reminded me if I change my mind and decide to add the shots later, they won't even charge me for an office visit  

Before that the last vet visit with Dora's foxtails in her ear, I gave her rescue remedy when I just thought she was being itchy and upset, and I told the vet I gave her rescue remedy when she wouldn't calm down when we got to the office. And she said to me "so when your dog is hyper, you recreationally drug her?" Let me tell you how big I felt!!! Unfortunately it was an emergency but I would never go back there. She didn't know what rescue remedy was and she wouldn't even listen to me!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

You did good. I'd find another vet. Bordatella is Kennel Cough. It's sort fo like the common cold for us. If they get it, it lasts a couple of days and it's over with. Pam brought it home from a show weekend once years ago and it went through all our dogs.

If it is required for anything you do it's no big deal to get it.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I would get another vet. He sounds like a jerk.Vets make huge money on vaccinations. I once heard like 40% of some practices are made on shots!
I do not do vaccines now that my youngest is over 2 years old. I test their blood and if their antibodies are low to something, I'll consider a booster. I also do single shots. My vet is very accommodating. He still thinks I'm nuts though  Glad you didn't let him bully you!


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

I think you did the right thing and if it were me, I would definitely find a different vet. I haven't done Bordatella, but if I needed to board my dogs I would have them vaccinated for it. The vet should be willing to listen to you and help you make an informed decision, not just tell you what they think you should do!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I think you need to find another Vet who is willing to discuss. You may need to get Mochi bordatella if you plan on taking Mochi to classes, or board him or sometimes even groomers will require it. But the point is, I do expect my vet to have more info than me and encourage me to do what she/he believes is right... but it has to be a discussion. I found a different Vet right in the same practice who is much more receptive to a conversation.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

You did a great job of standing up for yourself and your puppy. You are not ignorant, but your vet is a bully and I would look for another one quick. Bordatella is not a core vaccine and having it doesn't necessarily prevent your dog from catching a kennel cough. I never give my guys bordatella, it's like a common cold you either get it or not. I think our dogs are really over vaccinated and have stopped giving my poodles their annual shots. Bugsy received his boosters a year ago and I am not going to give him his boosters either. We stop vaccinating our kids after a certain age and I believe the same applies to dogs. I only give the required rabies shots at this point. Has anyone else stopped giving annual vaccines?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Julia- me  Ever since Belle's accidental lepto scare. And my dog's have never had kennel cough (I know I shouldn't be jinxing myself!) and they go to training class every week


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## sweetlotus (Nov 26, 2008)

I thank all of you for your support. I feel so relieved to know that I wasn't being an awful parent for not giving her that shot. She will not be boarded or groomed anytime soon and I will definitely consider it in the future if necessary. Of course I would never have known that the shot wasn't necessary if not for this forum!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

It isn't necessary, except in specific situations where it may be required, but it isn't detrimental either.


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## JeanMarie (Mar 2, 2008)

Riley got his Bordatella at about 4 months and only because he needed it for his play group. My vet didn't think it was a "core" vaccine. He got the nasel mist and I just called, walked in and it took 5 minutes.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

juliav said:


> I only give the required rabies shots at this point. Has anyone else stopped giving annual vaccines?


The vet practice I go to has also stopped recommending annual vaccines.

They recommend the puppy series + 1 year booster, then vaccinating again at age 4 and age 7. No vaccines at or beyond 10 years of age. That sounds more reasonable to me. I am still trying to decide whether to do titers or not, since Lincoln is due for shots in July (he's almost 4).


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Jane said:


> The vet practice I go to has also stopped recommending annual vaccines.
> 
> They recommend the puppy series + 1 year booster, then vaccinating again at age 4 and age 7. No vaccines at or beyond 10 years of age. That sounds more reasonable to me. I am still trying to decide whether to do titers or not, since Lincoln is due for shots in July (he's almost 4).


That's great to know. Romeo hasn't been vaccinated since his one yearbooster shots. He is 4.5 now so maybe I will give him a 4 year booster now.


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

My vet too doesn't do them annually. He recommends a 1 year booster and then every 2-3 years after that. 
So I'll do Gracie's boosters at a year, and then again at 4 and 7.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

My vet also does not recommend annual shots. He says puppy and 1 year. He said after that the only one we need to keep up with is rabies in case they ever bite someone and that person turns the dog in. As for kennel cough, he said the shot or nasal spray lasts a very short while and doesn't think it's necessary either. Sometimes you are required to get it though. 
You did good girl!!! Less is better!
Carole


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

i get so angry at vets who think all dogs are created equally! it was my understanding bortotello was given if you kennel your dog. my dog never goes to the kennel so he's never had a bortotello shot. my new vet is great and suggested tittering, which my breeder also suggested. django has his rabies shot and one other but that's it. my new vet feels your dog doesn't need all immunizations and thinks tittering is the way to go. i've always learned to listen to your gut and maybe find a new vet.


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

Good for you for holding your ground!

We've had to bump heads with a few of the veterinarians at our local clinic over the years, but our primary vet is very accepting of what we want and she has never pushed us to get something done that we didn't feel was necessary. 

If I remember correctly, bordatella is recommended twice a year for those dogs that are routinely kenneled or in day care. Even then, the vaccine does NOT protect against all strains of kennel cough, so your dog may still catch it even if vaccinated. It is NOT a core vaccine. 

Since all of our foster dogs are seniors now, they'll only receive rabies as required by law. The only two that are due for core boosters will be April and Pepper - and I have them on a 3-year schedule.


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## dschles (Jan 23, 2007)

I would definitely change vets. It is bad enough to be dealing with vaccine issues with a vet who doesn't listen to and respect his clients. Imagine dealing with a medical emergency with a vet like that!


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

I think you did the right thing for sure. It isn't a shot that dogs MUST have or even really need. Less is better, I agree with you. I would look for another vet for sure, one that won't make you feel like you are not doing what is in the best interest of YOUR dog. Hang in there, you were right and the vet was rude and wrong to treat you that way.


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

I think you definitely did the right thing with your vet. I had the same thing happen with Casper's first shots, the vet just started getting out needles and I had to call him on it. I have never and will never go back to that vet, I have since found another vet that listens to all my concerns and is glad I do my own research. 

There is really a lot to know about vaccinations and I have learned it all on the forum, do a search for any of your questions on shots, there really is a lot of infor.

I now have titers done on both my dogs, when time for booster shots, and any shots given they are always done one at time...in case of a reaction to the shot.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Lynn said:


> I now have titers done on both my dogs, when time for booster shots, and any shots given they are always done one at time...in case of a reaction to the shot.


Lynn, how often do you repeat the titers? Annually?


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Jane said:


> Lynn, how often do you repeat the titers? Annually?


After running titers on my dogs for years, I have never had a dog needing more then their initial puppy shots and the 1 year booster. Our Golden who lived to be 14 and our Schnauzer who lived to be 15 never needed shots after the 1 year booster. An analogy I use is: Do we give shots to our children annually? After all humans are mammals too. <grin>


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Kathy said:


> After running titers on my dogs for years, I have never had a dog needing more then their initial puppy shots and the 1 year booster. Our Golden who lived to be 14 and our Schnauzer who lived to be 15 never needed shots after the 1 year booster. An analogy I use is: Do we give shots to our children annually? After all humans are mammals too. <grin>


That is great information, Kathy. I am still trying to decide whether to start doing titers or not. My vet said we can do titers, but then we have to decide how often to repeat them. Do you do them annually? Or every other year?

Anyone? :ear:


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Jane said:


> That is great information, Kathy. I am still trying to decide whether to start doing titers or not. My vet said we can do titers, but then we have to decide how often to repeat them. Do you do them annually? Or every other year?
> 
> Anyone? :ear:


Dr. Dodds says you can do titers annually if you want to know. It is highly unlikely that you need anything beyond the puppy vaccines & 1-year booster. (The 1-year booster is essential to have to complete the vaccinations.) Rabies, of course, is the exception because of the law.

By the way, can you believe there are still two states that require annual Rabies vaccinations? Thankfully, all the other states have progressed beyond that, but Arkansas & Alabama are behind everyone else on this.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Kathy said:


> After running titers on my dogs for years, I have never had a dog needing more then their initial puppy shots and the 1 year booster. Our Golden who lived to be 14 and our Schnauzer who lived to be 15 never needed shots after the 1 year booster. An analogy I use is: Do we give shots to our children annually? After all humans are mammals too. <grin>


Kathy, that is exactly what my vet said. He has never seen a dog that has needed more shots after a year. The titers have always maintained an exceptable level! And the vet sees lots of titer results! 
Carole


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Thanks, Kimberly. Wow, I didn't realize immunity could be lifelong!

I really don't want to repeat the titers annually - that's a lot of poking and test fees. That's why I am trying to figure out do I want to just do the vaccinations at 4 years and 7 years OR titer every year OR.... ???

Maybe I'll titer this year (age 4) and again at age 8? Beyond age 10, my vet doesn't recommend any more vaccinations.

Just trying to come up with a reasonable plan. Has anyone else who has decided to do titers come up with a plan on how often to repeat them? Maybe our Havs are too young, in general, still?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Jane said:


> Beyond age 10, my vet doesn't recommend any more vaccinations.


 You should be encouraged to know that Dr. Dodds would agree with this. She was just saying how so many veterinarians are backwards in their thinking about this, using the logic that older dogs need vaccines even more because their immune systems become compromised. In reality, vaccines should only be given to healthy dogs, so she says that you should never vaccinate an elderly dog.


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Jane said:


> Lynn, how often do you repeat the titers? Annually?


Jane,
This is a good question...I have to research this next. When I did titers on Missy in Dec. she needed her 1 yr shot. I elected not to have the shots and do the titers. The titers came back, with the results she didn't need the shots and now it sounds like they should get their 1 yr shots. I am going to have to research it and talk with the vet, but I do not believe in vaccinations if they do not need it.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

If you have any concerns (Jane, Lynn, et al), please feel free to email Jean Dodds, DVM. She really doesn't mind answering email questions. You can find her email address at www.hemopet.com. She is very knowledgable and has invested her adult life in dogs and science. She is most known for her work in canine vaccines, but she has also moved into the areas of canine thyroid function and nutrition.


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> If you have any concerns (Jane, Lynn, et al), please feel free to email Jean Dodds, DVM. She really doesn't mind answering email questions. You can find her email address at www.hemopet.com. She is very knowledgable and has invested her adult life in dogs and science. She is most known for her work in canine vaccines, but she has also moved into the areas of canine thyroid function and nutrition.


Kimberly,
Thank you for the infor, I will contact her with my questions, thanks


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