# Beamer on RAW



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Ok, so I finally found a pet food store here that sold all the raw stuff. 
So I Bought Beamer the Natures Variety raw chicken formula.

He absolutly LOVED it.. I gave him 2 medallions and he wanted more! ( I should actually only be feeding him 1 and a half for his present weight..)

Hopefully he continues to love as I bought the bag with 48 medallions in it..

So I do havea couple questions..

Should I mix in some kibble with it? and give maybe 1 meddalion instead?
Or should I just get him on 100% raw?

Also, since its Raw, i know the bacteria is not good for us humans.. do i need to give him a full face wash after he eats to not spread bacteria? (his beard and mustach are quite long and i'm sure its in the food)

Thanks!!!

Ryan


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Ryan,
You might want to make sure you fully read about RAW first. I thought you can't mix kibble and raw!

Amanda


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Amanda,

Not sure about that?? On the Nature Variety website they have a interactive feeding guide that shows u how much kibble and raw combo to feed.. So, im not sure now?? lol..

Who feeds Raw here?

Thanks
Ryan


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Where do you buy raw? I've never seen it. Do they sell it at Petsmart? Is it kept frozen? What brands are considered the best/purest? I'm curious about it because I may do that when we travel, it seems like a good substitute for homecooking a few times a year.

Kara


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Here is a simple answer from BARF- feel free to check out their beginner's page http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm#kibble



> Can I feed kibble AND BARF?
> 
> Yes you can, but seriously, why? OK, I know change can be difficult, so please allow me to explain. Kibble and raw food are digested differently, and should NEVER be fed together, in the same meal. If you feed dry kibble at the same meal as the raw meat, you are increasing the amount of time the food is in the body, and increasing the possibility of illness from microbes. So, if you want to feed half & half, feed kibble one meal, raw the next. Your dog will probably be the one who will let you know, before you do, that BARF is IN and kibble is OUT! :>) But, if you really feel the need to feed kibble (alone or in addition to BARF) or just haven't made up your mind to switch completely to BARF, you may seriously consider a super premium all natural, holistic dog and/or cat food, such as Life's Abundance, which contains all natural and human-grade ingredients, including digestive enzymes/probiotics and grape seed extract (antioxidant)....and NO Corn, No Wheat and No Dairy, formulated by Dr. Jane Bicks, nationally recognized holistic veterinarian.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Kara,

I've only beena ble to find RAW at Global Pet foods. They sell all high end stuff.

I got Natures Variety frozen raw.
This is the one i bougut will rotate with other flavors..
http://www.naturesvariety.com/conte...n=naturesvariety:63E249C31883700926Phku82F503

There are acouple other brands to.. but i was told this is the best...sooo.. and its not to much $$$.. the bag of 48 1 oz meddalions was $13

Ryan


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Very cool!

I put my zip code in and the pet store around the corner carries it! I've never seen it though! lol, I'll have to look for the freezer next time I'm in there. I'm curious if she'll like it, and the price is very reasonable.

I'll definately consider that travelling (if I have access to a freezer! lol) Sheesh....

I'm glad Beamer likes it! Your problem may be solved 

Kara


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hopefully this RAW stuff works out..
Im just kind of neurotic about the raw food though?? I dont wan to have to give him a face wash every meal..lol...


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Yeah, I can see that as an issue!

Can you cut it up real small? Maybe that would make it easier for him and less mess? But I've given Gucci raw lamb and then, of course...she showered me with face kisses right after eating it! EWWW!!! uke: 

Kara


----------



## marbenv (May 31, 2007)

Kara,

They also sell it freeze-dried for travel.

Marsha


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

marbenv said:


> Kara,
> 
> They also sell it freeze-dried for travel.
> 
> Marsha


That's what I would probably need!  Thanks, I'm trying to figure out this travel/feeding thing because I DO love to travel with Gucci, and I plan on trying to take her more on these little business jaunts that I have to do periodically.

I'd like to start planning our family vacation next summer, too. I need some "dog" friendly ideas, maybe I'll start a thread?

Kara


----------



## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

My dogs really like the raw. Mirabel eats it so fast, and yes I cut it up for her, that I don't worry too much about the day to day germs. When she has bones that she has been chewing on I usually clean her face. As long as the food is being handled safely there shouldn't be much issue with germs. You could just wipe his face off with a wet paper towel after each meal.

Since I have bigger dogs too I decided to add kibble since all raw gets expensive. I bought Natures Variety Instinct. I went with this one as it is no grain and the bonding agent is tapioca rather than potato. I just bought this kibble today so we will see how they like it. 

The frozen stuff I have been getting is Natures Variety (they really like the venison). Today I bought some Primal nuggets in duck. I love the idea of them getting proteins that they might naturally chase down and eat. 

There is some really good kibble out there called Ziwi Peak that comes from New Zealand and is air dried to retain the nutrition of the raw. It is VERY expensive though. A shop I go to has been giving me samples though and I use them for treats. It looks like little pieces of jerky. If I do get some I will use it mainly to add a little extra texture to their food.

Oh, and Kara, I got samples at a local event of a home cooked dog food that they now sell at my local grocery stores. It comes in tubes and is refrigerated but would be handy for travel. It is called Homestyle select and my dogs loved that too.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hey Anne..
So yeah, i finally found the raw here.. 
Have you noticed any differences in your dogs since they have been on Raw?
Do you think the raw is enough for beamer? or should i add some of the other NV products in aswell??

Thanks!
Ryan


----------



## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I just put my guys on raw and they LOVE LOVE LOVE it. 
I have been putting kibble with it, so maybe I should stop?

I am going to read on that asap. 
Who on earth would abbreviate their food to BARF? hehe


----------



## arlene (Jul 28, 2007)

I have been feeding Nature's Variety Raw for probably 3 years . . . Javi was extremely picky and it was the only thing he ate with regularity. Phoebe is not quite as picky but she loves the NV Raw. I do keep the Natures Variety Kibble in the house but they rarely eat it and when they do, I have to mix it with tripe . . . usually they lick the tripe off the Kibble. I travel frequently and use the freeze dried or the canned. I do not reconstitute the freeze dried . . . they like it better dry . . . but you have to make sure they have water available when you serve it like that.

Their is a coupon on line for anyone wanting to try it:
http://naturesvariety.com/tryit/


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

freeway1976 said:


> Hopefully this RAW stuff works out..
> Im just kind of neurotic about the raw food though?? I dont wan to have to give him a face wash every meal..lol...


Ryan, I leave a bowl of kibble down all the time and feed them the raw at night--Sometimes they eat the kibble somedays they don't. I too was neurotic about the raw- so I actually cook it for the boys-- a splash of water and I microwave it for a bit (one medallion gets about 35 second) so that it is cooked but still pink in the middle- the water helps make a nice gravy. It is supposed to be a lot better for them if you feed it raw though- but this seems to working great for Jasper and Cash and makes me feel better. I use the Natures Variety too- but I am curious about the primal- although I think it is more expensive. try the NV rabbit... my boys go crazy for it.

How small is beamer that he only gets on medallion? my boys are supposed to get 4-5 a piece.


----------



## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I have been mixing it with kibble too. Melissa, please let us know what you find. For now, I will be changing things around at mealtime.


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Honest Kitchen sells a freezed dried, but my guys wouldn't eat it. We use the Primal which is like the Prairie, but has more veg. & fruit. It's all organic and USDA. I would wash his face with a warm wash cloth and little shampoo. I hand feed a lot, so they don't get it all over their faces. They just tried raw venison and loved it! The raw seems to work with my picky eaters. 

I free feed kibble, but I don't mix it with their raw. I just add an egg & grizzly salmon oil. If he likes the raw, I would get rid of the kibble. You can give him marrow bones for his teeth or raw lamb riblets.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Missy, 

I will be giving Beamer 3 medallions a day. He is 6.5 pounds or abouts. So thats what the reccomended serving is for him daily. I also got some great freeze dried beef and chicken breast treats for him, which he LOVES..

Ryan


----------



## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

I forgot to mention that I bought the green tripe today as well. I have heard good things about it. I am thawing it and will let them try it tomorrow. 

I have had people suggest that make friends with a butcher. You can get the femurs cut into 3 inch sections for them to eat. I heard a local meat shop has sold ground chicken for 50 cents a pound and a another butcher that has sold turkey necks for 20 cents a pound around the holidays. I have a really good meat shop around the corner and I plan on going on there to see what they have.

My dogs love the raw. As I have been switching over I don't know that I have seen all the changed that will happen. Going to potato in kibble seemed to help my dogs slim down a bit which was nice. The one is really over weight cause of his medicine. Now I will try this kibble with no grain. 

The big difference between NV and Primal is the percentages. NV is 95% meat, bone and organ whereas Primal is between 65-73% I believe with all organic fruits and veggies. I don't know a lot of stats on the BARF brand diet even though they sell it where I go. 

The website also recommends like 3.2 oz for Mirabel a day but with her energy she just seems to need more. She is still very skinny so I feel it is ok. The best rule about feeding your dog I ever heard is not to read labels but to look at your dog. If they are too skinny feed more, too chubby feed less. I call Mirabel "skinny pig" all the time cause she eats everything and stays skinny. She obviously doesn't take after me ound:


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Yes, the Primal is more expensive, but my guys would not touch the NV for some reason.


----------



## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Since I've switched my girls to raw (Grandad's), Sedona has gone from a chubby 19.5 lbs to 16 lbs and McKenna has gone from a skinny 10 lbs to 11.1 lbs. They don't have 'doggy" breath, their poops are smaller and there's less of it to pick up and they have little or no tear staining. I do keep some Nature's Variety kibble on hand and have fed that if I don't have any raw defrosted at meal time. I wonder what the problem is in mixing them. I would think that nutrition is nutrition no matter what.
I haven't tried the freeze dried version of the NV. When we've gone camping I've brought the frozen food in an iced cooler. I'll have to try the freeze dried.
As for the germs, I just wash any dishes I use with dish soap and hot water, clean the counter with a cleaning spray and call it done. After I finish feeding them, I wash my own hands. That's it. It's the same routine I use when I cook for us. It's been many months on the raw and the girls are thriving and neither me nor my husband has contracted any illnesses.

Susan


----------



## arlene (Jul 28, 2007)

I agree, tear staining is almost gone now that I have gone to the raw diet.


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I have to say the boys seem to have more energy when I add a little extra carb to their raw (cooked raw)-- I just started add a little brown rice, or pasta, or potato to their dishes what every we have--- they love the pasta , but Jassy's tear stains have started to come back so I think it's the pasta. 

I think you are not supposed to feed kibble and raw together because it takes different enzymes to digest. I think that is why NV suggests rotation.


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

freeway1976 said:


> Hi Missy,
> I will be giving Beamer 3 medallions a day. He is 6.5 pounds or abouts. So thats what the reccomended serving is for him daily. I also got some great freeze dried beef and chicken breast treats for him, which he LOVES..
> Ryan


Ryan, if Beamer is still a puppy you may want to visit the Nature's Variety website for the amount to feed Beamer. I too feed my dogs (except Dream-she doesnt like it) the raw medallions & for puppies i have to feed Jax (he is 5 months old) almost 7 MEDALLIONS a day. The requirement is MUCH different for puppies but unfortunately its not stated on the package. I just feed half in the am & then in the pm. I feed Tripp 4.5 ounces. I will attach the link.
http://www.naturesvariety.com/ifc.l...n=naturesvariety:423B6835189631FEACLMl38AB09C

I really love how they do on it. NO more soft stools & MUCH less stool also. Tripp has so much more energy since i put him back on this. He is like a new dog. I have to feed it frozen. Tripp does not like it thawed. I cut it in small bite sized pieces(who's spoiled!)


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Shannon,
I actually am giving Beamer 4 medallions a day instead of the 3. ow much does your Jax weigh? I cannot imagine giving Beamer 7 a day?!?! He would blow up! lol (hes only 6.5 lbs)

You know, its only been 2 days of feeding him this raw stuff, and actually i already see differences in him.. he seems to be more active and not napping as much/long... interesting...

Do you feed your guys all the diffeent flavors or do you just stick to one?

Thanks!


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Ryan, we feed beef and rabbit. they don't like the chicken and lamb gives them the runs - it's trial and error. I just got the sample packaging of the primal raw - it has a few medallions of all the flavors for 5.99. we'll see if they like it. I like that it has more fruits and veggies.


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Missy,
I am curious to know if they like it, so keep me posted!


----------



## arlene (Jul 28, 2007)

My guys prefer the chicken and beef of NV. They also eat lamb. Venison was not such a big hit. They did not like the rabbit in the canned so I have not bought the frozen.

Arlene


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Jax weighs 7.5 lbs. But its because they are still growing & need more than adults is why they require more. Yes i feed Jax 6.5 medallions per day. I have had them on this for a little over a month and he is not getting overweight at all. As he gets older i will decrease the amount. He would eat much more if i let him.

I buy all the flavors and rotate flavors by the bag. When one bag is finished, they get another flavor. When winter comes(if it ever does!), i want to try the raw bones they offer from this company thats also in the frozen section.

I just wish i could get Dreamer to eat it!


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi Linda, let's just say they didn't leave it. It said to mix it with what you are currently feeding which is 2 NV medallions, 1 meat ball (or as I did tonight left over filet mignon) a spoonful of carbs (tonight was shredded potatoes) and a few green beens or lettuce or other green veggies) I am such a CDL (crazy dog lady) I plate their food so they have half a plate of meat, a little starch and greens seperate and a dollop of pinapple and yogurt (cash is still a poo eater) 

So tonight I just replaced one NV medallion with the Primal beef cube but instead of mixing it in to the other beef I left it on it's own so I would know if they liked it or not. no prob all gone. We'll see what happens-- it, as it turns out is not that much more expensive as the primal comes in 4 LB bags and the NV in 3 LB bags... it's about a $1 more a lb.


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Wow Missy, you really do it up. They are eating full gourmet meals over there!

I'm glad they liked the Primal! I've been giving my guys raw venison with the Primal and they can't get enough.


----------



## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

freeway1976 said:


> Ok, so I finally found a pet food store here that sold all the raw stuff.
> So I Bought Beamer the Natures Variety raw chicken formula.
> 
> He absolutly LOVED it.. I gave him 2 medallions and he wanted more! ( I should actually only be feeding him 1 and a half for his present weight..)
> ...


Ryan,
NO, you should not be feeding raw and kibble together. It takes a lot longer for the kibble to digest then the raw. The raw is healthier and better for dogs in my opinion. Stick with just one way of feeding.

I have missed a lot I suppose, but I thought you were going to stick to your guns and feed only his kibble. <grin>


----------



## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I have been feeding Oreo raw, and he LOVES it. And this weekend he was going beserk as here in Canada we are celebrating our Thanksgiving weekend - ha! When he smelled that raw turkey - boy he went nuts!! His eye were like popping out of his head and he was so exciting thinking that it was for him... LOL He did get a nice 'cooked" meal this evening with turkey, carrots, celery, yams and potato - a nice break from kibble. 

The raw food I have been giving him is my own meat that I have thawed and chopped and then added green beans, apples and yams to, but the medallions sound great. 

Not sure how much Oreo will need per day, looking at the calculator it tells me 4. I am not sure if that is for the day or per meal. 

Ryan, I am really happy you found that raw food at Global pet foods, I will look into it on Tuesday morning.  Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Oh, and as for mixing kibble and raw, please try to avoid that as, it does take a long time for kibble to digest vs the raw. So, if you give raw, it will digest in about 3 hrs, so no worries about bacteria forming in the gut, but if you add kibble it will slow down the digestion and open the door for the food to ferment inside the gut causing infection or illness. 

I have fed Oreo strictly kibble in the morning, and then at dinner fed him raw, giving time in between, but never together as I am afraid of him getting sick to his tummy... Just my 2 cents.


----------



## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

I started switching Rocky & Rudy to raw food (Primal) about 2 - 3 weeks ago. Holy cow, they love love love it. Rudy was my picky eater - now he's my little piggy. I started with the Duck, and this weekend picked up Beef & Venison. 

I need to compare if it's less expensive to buy it from the pet store or directly from Primal.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

So.. are the frozen raw medallions enough? Does he need anything extra? extra veggies? carbs? That is the only thing that worries me...

Also, the raw bones.. that could get messy, no? I mean if he is chewing on it all over the house, its gonna be pretty nasty??? lol

Thoughts??

Ryan


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Missy,
Your guys have been fine with you feeding them the raw plus other foods mixed in? (beans/pasta/potatos) ?? 
I'm just worried about the digesting timelines.. hmmmm..
Ryan


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Kathy!
Yeah...ok... lol.. The feeding of kibble was just getting to crazy with beamer. He just does not like it.. and i do not want him only eating when he is starving like every other day! It was actually turning meal times into stressful times for everyone involved..hehe

So we decided to look for alternatives.. And this raw stuff is awesome! I've never seen him eat every morsal of food and LICK the plate clean.. plus I no longer need to add a bunch f junk to his food to entice himt o eat.. so much healthier for him!

Ryan


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Helen,
I'm sure Oreo would be very pleased with the forzen raw meals! There are actually afew brands at Global.. they just got a new brand in that is double the cost of the NV.. no idea why its so pricey???
They aso have a raw brand that is made in Canada.. might look into that one... 

Ryan


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Ryan, i would only give the bones to eat outside. THats why i am waiting for winter so they stay somewhat frozen while they are eating them. Its definately an occasional outdoor winter treat.

Natures Variety is supposed to be nutritionally complete, so you should not have to supplement. However, i am concerned that little Beamer is not getting the recommended amount of raw for his growing body but i am sure you are doing whats best for your little furbaby. eace:


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Ryan, I don't actually feed it to them raw- I microwave it- (35 secs for 1 medallion- 2min for 6 medallions in two bowls) so maybe that is why there is no issue with mixing in foods or also feeding kibble. In fact, the little "tootsie rolls" are firmer than they have been in a long time. The kibble I leave out is mostly EVO which they claim is the equivalent of raw- I do mix in a little Innova though-- I personally was worried about my boys all protein diet and thought it was making them a little sluggish. I guess what I am doing is more like Home Cooked, except I use the NV medallions as my base. 

Basically I put the kibble out in the morning- some times they eat it,often they don't- but I have noticed that they are both eating more consistently now that I am not combining the NV and the kibble. So maybe Helen is right and they knew it all along.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi shannon,

Maybe you are right about feeding him a bit more? 
I gave him 2.5 meddalions for lunch and will do the same for dinner to equal 5. He ate the his entire lunch in about 1 minute or less. I cannot belive he likes this stuff so much?!!? Should i maybe gime him 3 per meal? I'm really just going by what his kibble diet was.. and he hardely ate...so, maybe im just in shock.. lol


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

*what about treats?*

So, should no treats be given 3 hours before and after a meal? Or are the treats small enough to not interfear with the digesting of the raw?

Thanks!
Ryan


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I learned something new today!I had read several times about medallions,but had never seen one.In my head,I pictured a hard flat medallions,but it's kinda like a hamburger patty?Right?


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Ryan, my Jax was a eater who took a long time to eat his food(kibble mixed with canned) but when i put him on raw-watch out! He about inhales his food. He just goes nuts over it. He finishes his in less than a minute also. Then he is after Tripp's food so i have to stand right there to watch him or remove him from the ex-pen. Tripp used to inhale it when he was younger but has slowed down a bit.

When he knows its time to eat at 1st he will just stare at me, then he will stand on his hind legs like a bear(he can hold that stance for a LONG time) then if no food he will give me a low growl. It is so funny that i sometimes do that on purpose just so i can see him do this!! I am mean, i know.


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I just bought some NV Rabbit medallions today! Julie, they are about the size of a scallop. I'm a beach girl, so I hope you eat scallops there! lol I'm not sure if scallops are as popular as chicken fried steaks? tee hee.

I cut one up and offered it to Gucci and she didn't eat it  Granted, I also bought her a new toy that she was over-excited about it.

I also bought a small frozen Bison Bone. Has anyone fed one to their dog? I'm guessing I should thaw it out first so it won't be too hard on her teeth?

I'd like to have the raw around incase the kids need to feed her and I'm out of town or whatever comes up. I'm hoping she's just not hungry and will eat it later 

Kara


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Kara, Tripp wont eat his unless its frozen. I just have to thaw it enough to cut it in bite sized pieces. She may just not like the rabbit either. Tripp does not like the venison but loves the rest.

I only do the bones when its very cold outside or it can be a mess & with this heat the meat could spoil much quicker. I only let them have it outside.

They do have the offer the raw medallions freeze dried for those who travel. I have not tried this yet. You can either feed it that way or you add water to plump them up.


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Thanks!

Gucci normally loves anything rabbit, so I thought that would be my best bet! lol, she is SO eating disordered it drives me crazy! lol

I'll try the freeze dried next. But like when we were out of town and my daughter had to cook for Gucci...I thought maybe the frozen would be simpler!

I did cut them up frozen, I also have some thawing in the fridge for tonight. *sigh*

Kara


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Julie said:


> I learned something new today!I had read several times about medallions,but had never seen one.In my head,I pictured a hard flat medallions,but it's kinda like a hamburger patty?Right?


Julie, they do offer it in burger style 8 oz patties for those who need larger amounts to feed. I tried that but its a pain for me. The 1 oz medallions are perfect.
Kara explained it well, its just like a large scallop.


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Kara, Since you feed Gucci home cooked you may want to cook the medallions for her-- raw may be an acquired taste. I do one frozen medallion for 30-40 seconds in the microwave - two gets 50-60 seconds. But if she is finicky with our home cooking-- she may only eat them if she is really, really hungry.

Julie, here is a look at the medallions and the patties- I agree with Kara Sea Scallop size.

http://www.naturesvariety.com/conte...n=naturesvariety:4C135499189c722A57gsJN2D14E4


----------



## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

McKenna doesn't like her food too cold. I have to microwave it for a few seconds before she'll eat it. Once the temp is to her liking, she inhales it.

I did try the NV medallions once. I bought venison I think. I didn't like the way it smelled and the girls weren't too keen on it either. I'm going to try the beef though. The place that sells the NV raw medallions is a LOT closer to our house than the Grandad's distribution center.


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

I wish i could get Dreamer to eat it. I love how my other 2 are when they eat it. She just nudges it all over but wont eat it. I wish there were other brands available around here so i could have her try another option.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Kara,

The person at the store told me they always get people to start off with the chicken formula as most dogs are used to it from kibble or whatever..
I will try the rabbit next i think...

Ryan


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

freeway1976 said:


> Kara,
> 
> The person at the store told me they always get people to start off with the chicken formula as most dogs are used to it from kibble or whatever..
> I will try the rabbit next i think...
> ...


I never had much luck with chicken flavored foods with Gucci, so I'm learning from my mistakes (and all the money down the toilet! lol) She's always liked rabbit jerky or treats, so I thought that would be the best bet, since I haven't bought real rabbit meat yet.



> Kara, Since you feed Gucci home cooked you may want to cook the medallions for her-- raw may be an acquired taste. I do one frozen medallion for 30-40 seconds in the microwave - two gets 50-60 seconds. But if she is finicky with our home cooking-- she may only eat them if she is really, really hungry.


I don't know? I feed her raw meat a few times a week. Usually its lamb, or I will lightly sear steak in a pan, so its like a medium RARE, but more RARE than medium! ound: And she's had raw chicken before, so I don't think its an issue with the rare. She's just being her uber picky self and reminding me WHY I went to homecooked to begin with. haha

Kara


----------



## arlene (Jul 28, 2007)

I feed Natures Variety but I had a question so I sent it through their website . . . The response I got was pretty bizarre and talked about weaning kittens and had nothing to do with my original question which was about rotating kibble, canned & raw. Even more interesting was that the response came from customer service at miindustries.com . . . So being the inquisitive type, I went to www.miindustries.com

They don't list Natures Variety in their product list but they do list a bunch of chicken jerky products and it sure looks like the rest of the stuff that comes from China.

Natures Variety has also changed their packaging on kibble and canned. 
Having had a problem with Chicken Jerky, I am really concerned about the response coming from M.I.Industries. Could be an over-reaction but I am really concerned about what I feed these guys.

I responded to the email and asked what their association with Natures Variety was but I have not received a response.

Has anyone ever heard of MI Industries or know if Natures Variety was sold?

Arlene


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Oh no Arlene. that is scary.


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Ok, so immediately wrote MI Industries after reading Arlene's post. Here is the exchange--- not very inspiring



> "Hi, I am curious if your plant produced the Prairie Natare's Variety line of pet food? Where is your plant located? and where does the source of your ingredients come from?
> 
> Thanks for getting back to me,"
> 
> Missy





> Ms. Frederick,
> 
> Thank you for your recent email inquiry to Nature's Variety regarding our line of pet foods.
> 
> ...


I wrote back and asked specifically if the plant was in the US and if the products were USDA inspected. we will see if he writes back.


----------



## arlene (Jul 28, 2007)

I am beginning to feel like you have to be a detective to figure out who is who in the pet food industry. It is so frustrating.

I think the relationship with MI Industries is new . . . more research required.

Arlene


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

FYI, I have tried NV, Aunt Jennys, Bravo, Steves, and Primal. My guys liked Steve's the most and then Primal. Primal is made in the USA. 

Kara, if Gucci doesn't like NV, Primal or Steves might be worth a try if she is picky. For some reason, my dogs just spit the NV out! 

I never cook it, because I feel it kinda defeats the purpose.


----------



## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

freeway1976 said:


> Kathy!
> Yeah...ok... lol.. The feeding of kibble was just getting to crazy with beamer. He just does not like it.. and i do not want him only eating when he is starving like every other day! It was actually turning meal times into stressful times for everyone involved..hehe
> 
> So we decided to look for alternatives.. And this raw stuff is awesome! I've never seen him eat every morsal of food and LICK the plate clean.. plus I no longer need to add a bunch f junk to his food to entice himt o eat.. so much healthier for him!
> ...


Ryan,
I am glad you understood I was giving you a hard time. I agree with you 100%, we want to see our "kids" eating well and remaining healthy. Feeding raw is good, at least in my opinion. I have never had any issues and in fact after doing a LOT of research years ago on the subject of what we feed our dogs, I decided it was best. What made me switch to a grain free kibble was when Molly was pregnant with her last litter, she actually refused to eat the raw all of a sudden. Well, when you have a bitch that is pregnant, believe me, you feed them whatever they will eat!

I am glad you found something Beamer loves!

Kathy


----------



## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

> I am unable to provide specific details surrounding our raw materials suppliers.


I don't like this statement at all! The consumer has a right to know where each and every ingredient comes from. We don't have a right to know secret recipes but we sure have a right to know if their ingredients are sourced from the US or elsewhere......maybe I won't feed the girls any more of the NV kibble even if I don't have any Grandad's defrosted....

Susan


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I agree susan, that was the line that made me suspect too. I am not sure what I will do yet. the NV medallions do seem to work really well for the boys.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

The actual package says 'made in the usa'.. so what does that mean exactly?


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Ryan, does it say that? that makes me feel better- I couldn't find it on my package. I guess it still could mean that they get their ingredients from overseas but probably not. Hopefully they will return my 2nd e-mail with some more specifics.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Missy,
Yes, my package has the made in the USA graphic on it. But, that could still mean its procesed and packages in the USA, and the ingrediants COULD be from overseas? I'm not sure about that.

Hopefully we will get clarification on this.. hmmmm

I might try this canadian brand..
http://www.pets4life.com/index.php?p=products/h4l#where
It looks good and is the same price... Maybe i'll pick up a small package and see if beams likes it!

Ryan


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Missy,

Any response yet from the NV people??

Thanks,
Ryan


----------



## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

This is great discussion on raw pet foods! Thanks everyone for their imput.

As I said earlier, Rudy & Rocky were switched to Primal raw foods a few weeks ago and absolutely love it. They lick their plates clean! They are truely enjoying their meals.

FYI - I picked up a couple bags of Primal from another pet store because they had a couple flavors I hadn't tried. When I got the bags home, I opened the beef and it looked freezer burnt and the nuggets were stuck together like a chunk of ice. Thank you *Linda* for e-mailing Primal so quickly!! The President & Founder of Primal personally e-mailed me and phoned the store where I purchased the food. _What I learned_...Sometimes the nuggets can be stuck together, but you should be able to lightly drop it on a cutting board and have the nuggets break apart. If they do not, most likely the food was thawed and then re-frozen. Do not feed your dogs re-frozen raw food.

I had given Rocky 1 of the beef nuggets - he threw it up. uke: He has NEVER thrown up anything, so obviously, YUK!


----------



## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

I thought that since there seem to be quite a few people already feeding their havanese raw diets, and a lot more interested in the subject, I would create a group for this topic. All info can be shared there. If anyone has research they would like to post about it they can. Also and tips or information that people would like to offer. Those that have been feeding their havanese raw for awhile now can offer advice and let those interested in it know how it has worked for them. I know that my dogs seem to really like it and would love to learn more about it.

You can access it by clicking on groups on the main page (it's over to the right under sizing photos) and clicking on Raw diets for Havanese.


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

That "puke face"symbol always makes me laugh.


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Here is what was written back to me from Nature's variety--- all the info is OK- I just don't like the tone-



> Ms. Frederick,
> 
> We source our raw meat products from USDA/FSIS inspected plants, or in the case of imported products plants that are in compliance with regulations set forth by the USDA/FSIS, and the products are "human-grade" as they enter our plant. We are not, however a USDA/FSIS inspected facility approved for processing human-grade food because we include bone and organ meat into our diets which would obviously not be approved but rather a USDA/APHIS inspected plant which approves our production for pet foods that are processed in the US and exported into the EU.
> 
> ...


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

This link is interesting.. It talks about why pre-made Raw is not so great.. But, i mean.. there is no way I'm going to throw a chicken carcus at beamer and say enjoy! lol... natural raw seems kinda gross to me. lol
http://www.rawlearning.com/premaderaw


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Ms. Frederick,



> We source our raw meat products from USDA/FSIS inspected plants, or in the case of imported products plants that are in compliance with regulations set forth by the USDA/FSIS, and the products are "human-grade" as they enter our plant. We are not, however a USDA/FSIS inspected facility approved for processing human-grade food because we include bone and organ meat into our diets which would obviously not be approved but rather a USDA/APHIS inspected plant which approves our production for pet foods that are processed in the US and exported into the EU.
> 
> The plant photos that you are seeing at www.miindustries.com are in US.
> 
> ...


Missy,

Its not just you! That does sound a bit rude and condescending, and a little bit "deceptive", if you ask me... 'Human grade' should mean its ALL human grade, not just a portion of it!



> This link is interesting.. It talks about why pre-made Raw is not so great.. But, i mean.. there is no way I'm going to throw a chicken carcus at beamer and say enjoy! lol... natural raw seems kinda gross to me. lol
> http://www.rawlearning.com/premaderaw


I'm pretty sure Beamer would LOVE you if you threw a chicken carcass at him! LOL ound: I haven't gone THAT far with feeding natural raw, but I have fed raw lamb steaks, chicken breasts and steaks. Sometimes, I will just very lightly sear the meat in a pan and brown the outside in a frying pan and the center is very rare, just warm. She loves it like that.

And honestly......I think the NV raw is GROSSER than the natural Raw! LOL, it smelled really funny to me, maybe that's because it was rabbit and I'm not used to that smell.

She refused it last night, too. I'll give it one or two more shots and then give it away. I guess I had to remind myself why I quit buying commercial foods. haha. :brick:

Kara


----------



## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

> it smelled really funny to me


Kara, I thought it was just me. I fed the girls a small bag of the venison version but I thought it smelled weird too. I'm thinking its the other ingredients, besides the raw meat, that make it smell weird.

Susan


----------



## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

The tricky part about raw feeding yourself (not using frozen) is that the dogs phospherous/calcium levels can get thrown off. It can safely be done but you have to make sure that your dog is getting the appropriate amount of meat and bone.


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Here is a great site- I found about feeding in general

http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

freeway1976 said:


> This link is interesting.. It talks about why pre-made Raw is not so great.. But, i mean.. there is no way I'm going to throw a chicken carcus at beamer and say enjoy! lol... natural raw seems kinda gross to me. lol
> http://www.rawlearning.com/premaderaw


I would just be afraid of leaving an important supplement out. If you buy raw meat how do you know what all to add to it? I like the premade stuff because I don't have to think about it.


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I agree Linda. I like having some consistency in their diet that I don't have to think too hard about. That is what scared me when I was home cooking too. I don't love the smell of the NV either. I think it is the mix of all the other stuff- But it is working really well for them- we'll see about the Primal- but I think once per once you have to feed more of the Primal- so I am afraid it will get too expensive for two-- Linda, do you know how many bags a month you go through with your 3 pups? (we know your 3 equal my 2 in weight) How many of the primal cubes do yours get each a day?


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Missy said:


> I agree Linda. I like having some consistency in their diet that I don't have to think too hard about. That is what scared me when I was home cooking too. I don't love the smell of the NV either. I think it is the mix of all the other stuff- But it is working really well for them- we'll see about the Primal- but I think once per once you have to feed more of the Primal- so I am afraid it will get too expensive for two-- Linda, do you know how many bags a month you go through with your 3 pups? (we know your 3 equal my 2 in weight) How many of the primal cubes do yours get each a day?


I don't know how much I go through. If 9 bags in my freezer tells you something! I don't give them quite the entire daily allowance, because they free feed the dry. I have to keep dry out for my step daughters dog. When they see him eat, they eat too. It's like they are in competition. That's why I don't feed them as many pieces as they should get. I don't want them to be full figured.

Freddie is 12.8- 13.4 lbs depending on when I weigh him. He is supposed to get 5.2 nuggets per day. I give him 4 nuggets, plus raw venison, egg, salmon oil and he free feed the dry. I just increased his raw to see if he would stay the same or chunk up. I am weighing him daily.

Bella is 6 lbs. She's suppose to get 2.5 nuggets. I give her 2 nuggets plus all the extras. She doesn't always eat it all.

Scudder is 12.8lbs. He's suppose to get 8 nuggets. I give him 5 or 6 a day plus all the extras. He eats more of the dry kibble then fred that's why he gets less. he is an oinker. Plus, he is now over 10 months and I am not sure if he should be getting less. I am also checking his weight daily.

So I guess I use 11-12 nuggests per day


----------



## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I travelled all over my town and could not locate the Natures Variety. I did find a Canadian raw food called Healthy Paws. I bought the package that came with 24 patties (1/4 lb each). For Oreo he is to eat one entire patty a day - 1/2 in the morning meal and 1/2 at dinner. I will be doing the morning meal raw and the evening meal kibble. Whoooweee did Oreo LOVE it though!! He wolfed it down in just a few seconds...  It also has the kelp and supplements, so I will see how Oreo's digestion is.

Missy, I do have to agree that the tone of the letter is a bit condescending, you simply were inquiring and a simple but polite response is all that is necessary... Sheesh...


----------



## Lo01 (Jul 22, 2007)

Missy,
There was quite a witch hunt on the itchmo forums with regard to Nature's Variety Rabbit products, given that they source those products from China

However, to the surprise of many, the company CEO actually posted a response on the public forum: here

Quite impressive.

Hank typically eats a rotation of NV's Organic Chicken, Lamb, Venison, Beef, and Rabbit medallions for breakfast. And has one of NV's kibbles for dinner. He used to be on Merrick Puppy Plate, however, he never ate his meals with such zest since the switch to "semi-raw."

BTW Linda, I strongly agree with you. It would be very difficult to replicate through home "cooking" what pre-made raw products provide. As a physician (not a vet), I liken it to feeding home cooked meals (baby food) to one's babies...it can be done, but the risk for poor/inadequate nutrition is much higher. Good intentions notwithstanding.

*'Lo*


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Thanks for posting that Lo. I have been very torn because- the boys do really well on the NV. I wish the guy who wrote me was as sincere as the CEO who posted on Itchmo. thanks again, I may try another flavor for the boys- currently they eat mostly beef and sometimes rabbit. lamb gives them the runs and they don't care much for the chicken medallions- but maybe the venison,


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Missy,
Keep in mind, I don't have kids. Its easier to afford an expensive dog food when you don't have that expense!


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

LOL Lynn, we don't have kids either. but we live in Massachusetts. need I say more.


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I wonder just how many of us here have kids, the human kind.

That might be an interesting poll.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

*NV in Whitby*

Helen,

Nature Variety is available at these 2 stores in Whitby!

Whitby 
PET VALU 
3050 Garden St. 
Whitby , ON L1R 2G7 905-668-9299

PET VALU 
1801 Dundas St. E 
Whitby , ON L1J 5C8 (905)433-5533 Products stocked: Dry Kibble Diets and Raw Frozen Diets

I also am going to try that canadian brand to see how Beamie likes!


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Why does it not surprise me that the Rabbit meat is from China? lol, I should just assume that right off the bat from now on!

We tried it again last night, and she won't touch it. She'd rather *starve herself* than eat it, so maybe I can find someone here in town that wants the rest of it? 

And you are all right about homecooking, it does require alot variety and I have to add supplements to balance off where she lacks each week. You should see the folder I keep on top of my fridge with nutritional requirements and sources of vitamins, etc. I have to rotate her veggies and carb source daily! She won't eat fruits of ANY sort, and is pretty picky with her veggies. It has taken me about 2 months to figure out what she will eat, and what she won't eat, and HOW she'll eat it! ound: Countless hours on homecooking forums and stacks of books with different opinions!

I doubt I would go full time homecooked "raw", there is a school of thought that believes that certain bacterias have "morphed" themselves (I can't recall the scientific word right now, I'm an Economist, not a doc! ) to where they "can" infect animals, specifically dogs and cats. I am not completely convinced that a dog can't contract salmonella or ecoli, or other types of food bourne illnesses.

I contracted "shigella" from tainted lettuce, during a large outbreak, when I was 14 years old and hospitalized for 2 weeks. I wouldn't wish that on my worst ENEMY.

Kara


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Has anyone heard of 'Aunt Jeni's' frozen raw food? She is a nutritionist from MD who gets her chicken from the same supplier that Whole Foods & Fresh Fields use. She even provides the meat companies websites. She has a FAQ area to answer where her meats come from. And she states its organic.

The place where i get NV also carries this line & was wondering if any opinions. Its not in medallions but its just frozen in its container. The website makes it look really well made(dont they all!).
Here is there link:

http://www.auntjeni.com/


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I tried it but they wouldn't eat it. Plus it was not as easy because it only comes on containers rather than nuggets.


----------



## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Ryan, I checked out the locations in Whitby and despite what the website says they don't carry it. Actually the lady and the first location was just plain rude to me and in an abrupt manner said they didn't carry it. I told her that she should contact Natures Variety to let them know they are not vendors, and she said "we don't carry it ALRIGHT!" , rolled her eyes at me and offered a smirk to another customer as if I was stupid or something. I lost it and told her that she does not need to be rude to me and if the address of that location is on the website and she does not carry it then it is false advertising! I was livid. They sent me on a run around and finally I gave up. There was a location I found where the help was so polite and helpful. That is were I found the other brand, and Oreo loves it because everytime I prep it his eyes are practically popping out of his head with excitement. Thanks for the addresses Ryan.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Helen,
So which brand is Oreo eating now?

I'm still wondering about the NV Rabbit? Are they from China or the US? anyone ever get any resolution on that??


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

For all who are feeding Raw....

Beamers poops are soo small now! I'd estimate maybe 20% of the normal size before the raw.. Also, he seems to get pooping a bit more frequent.. around 3 times a day since on raw. But they are like rocks. lol

How is everyone elses poop on raw?

Ryan


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Ryan, I am staying away from the rabbit. I think it is from china based on the CEO's letter that Lo posted from the itchmo site. But I think all the others are sourced from US.


----------



## Squirt (Oct 10, 2007)

I have been feeding Squirt raw in the mornings, kibble at night. I'm doing it this way because both my vet and the breeder told me to make any food changes slowly, and add new food by substituting 1/4 new food, one week at a time for four weeks. She dances with excitement at the raw and turns up her nose at the kibble. LOL Her poop has definitely gotten more solid (thus easier to pick up YAY). It's hard to say if it is more frequent because she is new to our home. But she is pooping 4 or 5 times a day. (she's a year old).


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Peggy!

Pooping 4 or 5 times a day?? wow, thats alot! That how much Beamer pee's a day.. 

Well since you are doing half raw and half kibble, you might not notice any reduction in poop size yet.. Beamers are so small its funny.. sometimes i cant even find it in the grass to dispose of it.. lol

Ryan


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Missy,

Beamer is eating the vension and chicken right now. I want to give hima 3rd flavour, but not sure which? I wanted to do the rabbit, but wont if its from China..
Have you had success with any other of the flavours? Do any of the other raw brands make rabbit thats not from China?

Thanks!
Ryan


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Ryan, Beef is the standard flavor here. The boys like their red meat. I am afraid of the lamb because lamb kibble gave them the runs but I bet beamer may like it if he has not had a problem. I know Bravo makes a rabbit log not medallionsbut not very convenient and I am not sure where they get their rabbit. I just got a bag of chicken to replace the rabbit--- My Guess Cash will like it but not Jasper- we will see. I guess why I always liked the idea of rabbit was that you can imagine a pack of these little guys in the wild (LOL) hunting rabbit. But not if it is from China.


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

freeway1976 said:


> Missy,
> 
> Beamer is eating the vension and chicken right now. I want to give hima 3rd flavour, but not sure which? I wanted to do the rabbit, but wont if its from China..
> Have you had success with any other of the flavours? Do any of the other raw brands make rabbit thats not from China?
> ...


Not that I know of. I know China is the cheapest source and they farm more rabbit than the US. It tends to be an expensive meat here. If you find one, let us know!

I'm glad Beamer is doing great on it!  Gucci would NEVER even taste the raw  (well, not the commercial raw anyways) I've been searing her lamb to a medium rare and she loves it.

Kara


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

freeway1976 said:


> For all who are feeding Raw....
> 
> Beamers poops are soo small now! I'd estimate maybe 20% of the normal size before the raw.. Also, he seems to get pooping a bit more frequent.. around 3 times a day since on raw. But they are like rocks. lol
> 
> ...


What poop? LOL

I agree mine eat the raw and they have teenie tiny solid hard poops. They also poop less, about 2x per day.


----------



## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I have just discovered that mine *love* lamb. I was looking through the freezer to see what was in there and found a loin lamb chop. I cooked it with a little salt and garlic powder and the two of them stood in the kitchem crying while I was cutting it up for them. Guess I have to buy more lamb.


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

irnfit said:


> I cooked it with a little salt and garlic powder and the two of them stood in the kitchem crying while I was cutting it up for them. Guess I have to buy more lamb.


This is the scenario at my house! lol, she sits there and drools and occasionally whimpers. The scent must be intoxicating for them? Lamb is really good for them, its loaded with aminos and low fat.

Kara


----------



## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Hey Ryan, the version of raw I am feeding Oreo is Healthy Paws - a Toronto based company.. Its funny you ask this as I was going to report Oreo's response to the sample of Tollden chicken he was given. It wa funny because the first day I gave him the 1st half ( I do half raw and half kibble), Oreo was his usual happy self licking his lips in anticipation of his raw meal. He ran up to his bowl, only to sniff the Tollden brand and eat it with not so much gusto... The next day, well, he was excited, ran up, sniffed and TOTALLY backed AWAY.... Then he gave me this look as if to say: "You really expect me to eat that?!" LOL I threw that sample away and defrosted some of his healthy paws and he finished that in seconds!! The look was just priceless  As for the popping it is small and I started to wonder if he is getting constipated. He does lick his bum a lot now. uke: EWWWWW!!! Last night I caught him, lying in the back of his crate licking his bum. I pulled him out only to find he was actually going and eating it at the same time!!! I think I better get back to adding the pineapple ASAP to the raw meals - seems he likes it a little too much. Gross!!


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Helen,

What?!?!?! He was eating it as it was coming out?? hahahahaha.... sorry for laughing, but that has to be the most gross and funniest thing I have ever heard.. lol

Ok... soo... Beamer is also having a bit of a hard time 'going' to.. He will try.. then move up a few paces.. then try.. then if finally comes out... sometimes it takes longer.. or shorter... but I read that is totally normal that its hard for them to squeeze out when eating raw.. and apparently its good for the anal glands to!

I dont think Beamer likes the Tollden farms chicken either.. he actually left a bit of the sample on the plate.. He has never left any NV behind..
I picked up a sample of Tollden Beef today.. just to see if he likes..

The Healthy Paws, thats the one that is in an ice cream container, right?


----------



## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

I read these posts and have to ask myself, why are you feeding raw? 

I think I may have missed the posts with all the benefits, but this post is not selling it to me.


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Cheryl said:


> I read these posts and have to ask myself, why are you feeding raw?
> 
> I think I may have missed the posts with all the benefits, but this post is not selling it to me.


I've read a lot of articles on the different diets for dogs. After doing my research, I feel the raw is the best diet for my guys.


----------



## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Ryan, the one I got for Oreo comes in patties, and he gets 1/2 a patty a day, as I feed him the kibble in the evening. And yeah, that was the most grossest thing I ever experienced with Oreo. As much as I can see he really put on quite a bit of muscle and his appetite has increased, I at times worry if the hard stool isn't good. In humans, its not a good thing, so I figure it wouldn't be in dogs. I do give Oreo apple slices and raw carrots, he loves those, but this is the first time I have seen Oreo do this! Maybe I haven't caught him doing it before.... uke: This behaviour is absolutely disgusting


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi cheryl,

When I first started to research the raw diet I asked this forum for thought on it. Got some great responses from some of the members... much of the webpage links are at the front of this thread. After alot of reading and research I wanted to give it a go.

I've never seen Beamer eat like this before! Its as if he is now in love with food.. He has never been food motivated before.. now he is.. He loves his raw food!

He is happy, and I'M VERY HAPPY now.. finally!

Ryan


----------



## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I guess that it what is important, is that they are happy and eating well. It becomes a bit of a worry when they undereat. Now, its just a piece of mind that Oreo is now getting what he needs. So far, in the past 4-5 weeks Oreo has not gone on a hunger strike - which is great. Ryan, I am happy that Beamer is eating well, it is a big peace of mind.


----------



## ruthann (Jan 26, 2007)

It seems as though all have gone to feeding raw meat and bones. Why buy all these frozon dog meats when you could buy fresh meat and then you would know what they are getting? Are you sure it is safe? I feed Annabelle 4 oz's of meat a day, but I make meat balls and bake them to medium and keep them in the freezer and take out two meatballs every night and give her one with breakfast and one with supper. What is the advantage of raw over slightly cooked? I would think the cooking would kill germs? I missed any info on why you all are feeding the raw?


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

ruthann said:


> It seems as though all have gone to feeding raw meat and bones. Why buy all these frozon dog meats when you could buy fresh meat and then you would know what they are getting? Are you sure it is safe? I feed Annabelle 4 oz's of meat a day, but I make meat balls and bake them to medium and keep them in the freezer and take out two meatballs every night and give her one with breakfast and one with supper. What is the advantage of raw over slightly cooked? I would think the cooking would kill germs? I missed any info on why you all are feeding the raw?


I think someone started a GROUP about raw feeding. If you go to the main page, it on the far right by photos sizing. I can't view it because my account has been messed up for weeks now. 
I buy the premade, because it has all the supplements needed for a balanced diet. I don't have to add anything else. It's safe because it's all human grade USDA and organic. It's just as good as the the organic meat you buy at Whole foods. You don't have to worry about bacteria, because dogs can't get that. There digestive tracts are short and their system process the food. Dogs can't get Salmonella ( spelling) etc., can't carry it in their saliva or on their fur. Cooking the raw meat defeats the purpose.

Do your research and just do what you feel comfortable with. My picky eaters are now eating!


----------



## Squirt (Oct 10, 2007)

I read a lot in this forum and other forums about the raw diet. Why, how, benefits, etc. My breeder feeds some raw and was enthusiastic about it. I asked my vet and he said he really had no opinion one way or another. He works with a lot of police dogs and many of those are fed a raw diet. He said it is the subject of much heated debate. Very heated debate! LOL He feeds his own dog kibble for the convenience, but has no problem with a raw diet. 

I am feeding commercial raw (Nature Variety) because it has all the supplements and I know that the bones are ground small enough for my 4 1/2 pound bundle of fun. 

I am feeding kibble at night because I still want Squirt to get some grains and carbohydrates.


----------



## havaluv (Oct 15, 2007)

> Can I feed kibble AND BARF?
> 
> Yes you can, but seriously, why? OK, I know change can be difficult, so please allow me to explain. Kibble and raw food are digested differently, and should NEVER be fed together, in the same meal. If you feed dry kibble at the same meal as the raw meat, you are increasing the amount of time the food is in the body, and increasing the possibility of illness from microbes. So, if you want to feed half & half, feed kibble one meal, raw the next. Your dog will probably be the one who will let you know, before you do, that BARF is IN and kibble is OUT! :>) But, if you really feel the need to feed kibble (alone or in addition to BARF) or just haven't made up your mind to switch completely to BARF, you may seriously consider a super premium all natural, holistic dog and/or cat food, such as Life's Abundance, which contains all natural and human-grade ingredients, including digestive enzymes/probiotics and grape seed extract (antioxidant)....and NO Corn, No Wheat and No Dairy, formulated by Dr. Jane Bicks, nationally recognized holistic veterinarian.


I am just getting started reading about the raw diet. I am feeding Life's Abundance that is mentioned in this quote. My Ollie absolutely *LOVES* this kibble. Was your primary motivation for starting the raw diet because of picky eaters, or was it the health benefits? Sorry if this is a dumb question...I just want the best for my furbaby. He's eating so well, I'm not sure I would want to change it. Has anyone else fed Life's Abundance?


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

I started feeding the raw because Beamer would not eat kibble.. He eats the raw like he is making love to the plate, i tell you!! 
And after reading all the positive things on raw, I will be keeping Beamer on it!


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Helen,
I bought some Lamb green Tripe by Healthy Paws today. Will be serving some up to him at dinner time.. wow, does it STINK!!!!! I bought the 1lb frozen bag of it. Had to cut (saw) off a section to thaw and put the rest back in the freezer.

Have you tried the tripe before? Wow, does it STINK!?!? lol.. hope beamer likes it.. saposed to be very good for them!

Ryan


----------



## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Ryan,

Has Beamer gained any weight on his new diet?


----------



## Krimmyk (Dec 7, 2006)

freeway1976 said:


> Hi Amanda,
> 
> Not sure about that?? On the Nature Variety website they have a interactive feeding guide that shows u how much kibble and raw combo to feed.. So, im not sure now?? lol..
> 
> ...


With NV you should be able to switch out from raw to kibble as the food is really just freeze dried meat. Sully had Salmon and now is on venison...no problems! LOVE NV! and it is made in Nebraska where we are living. Catch is it takes 45 minutes to get to the "local" place to get it! Grrr. BevA told us about it, I love the idea of being able to switch him out each bag if I decide too for variety!


----------



## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Ryan, I have not tried the tripe. Oreo is on the chicken and it does not smell bad at all. Not to sure how I feel about tripe - but maybe the beef will be the next flavour I try. But first I better let Oreo get through his Chicken patties. LOL

Oreo even eats his kibble and gobbles it up - unlike before he would eat it very slowly. The only problem is, is that when I feed him kibble his breath STINKS!! ...... But then again, I digress, it could simply be the poop.... uke:


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Helen,

Ok.. i fed Beamer about 1 once of healthy paws tripe today after his NV raw. I almost puked just puting it on the plate in its thawed state. Then after he wolfed it down he smelled like it cause his beard got into it while eating it... I had to wash his face twice to get rid of the stench. I'm not sure if I can continue feeding this to him. maybe once a week or so.. but no way in hellllll every day.. ughhhh... it is HORID!!!!

Ryan


----------



## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Um Ryan, I would not blame you if you never wanted to feed him Tripe again. I don't think I would ever try... It does sound horrid and I can only imagine the stench... uke: I will only stick to the chicken patties and beef patties. And I will change it up when he is finishing up the chicken ones...


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

freeway1976 said:


> How is everyone elses poop on raw?
> Ryan


Ryan, did you EVER think you would be asking a question like that!!


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Shanon,

Hahaha.. yeah seriously.. When I picked up Beamer that day a few months back, I would have never thought that I would be asking about others poop to compare his with. To funny.. lol
What can i say!?! I'm passionate about poop! 

Ryan


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Yes, tripe smells so gross that i gag.

I feed raw mainly because of the health benefits after much reading. They have done soooo well on it i cant see ever feeding anything else. My dogs are picky too but i could not get Tripp & Jax's stool under control no matter what i fed them. I had to do too many butt washes every day. Jax & Tripp used to poop 4-6 times a day & it was a LOT, plus you could smell it a mile away. With the raw, they poop 2-3 times a day & you can barely even see it it so tiny & hard.

Jax used to have a very poor coat when i adopted him. I used to say he looked like a little mutt dog. But the change in his coat thats growing in & the change i see in Tripp is, to me, amazing. More energy & more alert. I just wish i could get Dreamer to eat it. I have tried different brands but nope! SHe has always been a good eater/pooper so i cant complain.

I feed mainly NV raw medallions but i also just tried Aunt Jeni's raw & i really like that too. I have tried their Turkey & Chicken. Tripp didnt like Turkey much-it had a lot of greens in it. But Jax loved it. THe chicken smells really good & fresh & they both LOVED it. Its organic & looks like made with really good ingredients. I do like the way it looks & smells more that NV but they love them both so i will alternate.

The only thing i do add is salmon oil & also a probiotic enzyme.


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

freeway1976 said:


> Shanon,
> I'm passionate about poop!
> 
> Ryan


Its amazing what we all do become passionate about, isnt it. Is there anything we wouldnt do for our babies?!


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Shannon,

Beamers coat is very silky and shiny now as well sine we have been on raw. His coat was always nice, but now its like silk! The raw food transformed him into an HSD.. lol 

By the way, the NV raw includes salmon oil in all its products - so you may want to stop adding it, you dont want to give your guys a over dose of the stuff! lol

What is the probiotic enzyme for?

Thanks!
Ryan


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Ryan, actually i dont really feel you can give too much of salmon oil(we dont add a lot) plus Aunt Jeni's does not add it to their foods-here is why according to their website(they say you dont have to add anything but if you want to this is what they say):

[I*]'Yes, there are ground flax seeds in Home Made 4 Life®, and they are very beneficial. However, the seeds lend more in terms of fiber, while the oil provides a greater benefit in terms of Essential Fatty Acids. We don't add oil to Home Made 4 Life® because of the volume of our batches and the handling involved--mixing, packaging, etc. Oils go rancid quickly, and that process is speeded up by exposure to air. We feel that the quality of the oil would be compromised, and that it's best to add oils just before feeding to get the best quality and make sure your pet receives the full benefits. Oils can be safely frozen without harming their integrity. But once you have opened the bottle of oil, the oxidation process begins. This is why they must be stored refrigerated and kept tightly closed.'*

They also say to add vitamins C & E because: 
*'Vitamin C is the most delicate of all vitamins. It is very easily destroyed by: heat, light, moisture/water, and air. If you add vit C at the time of preparation and do not serve it immediately, all of the value of the vitamin is lost, unfortunately. With the high cost of this vitamin, and the potentially terrific benefits from consuming it, it seems a shame to throw that all away by adding it ahead of time. We definitely think vit C is a wonderful supplement to use. However, it is one that does not adapt well to being thrown into the mix ahead of time. Best to keep it on your counter or in the cupboard (away from light) and add it daily, just before feeding.

Vitamin E will also oxidize quite quickly once exposed to air. This is what makes it a powerful "antioxidant" inside your body. Many manufacturers use vit E (and C) as natural preservatives for their foods. While they may accomplish this job, there will definitely not be anything leftover to act as a beneficial supplement to the pet consuming the food. We feel it's misleading to consumers, who see "vit C" and "vit E" on the label, and mistakenly think they do not need to give these vits to their pets since they are already in there. We'd rather have you spend your money on your own fresh vitamins that you can take proper care of, and add yourself, so your pet will truly benefit from them.'*


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

And for the probiotic/enzyme question, they say its good to add when feeding raw. I found many long answers to post but here is a short version:

*'What are enzymes and how are they useful?

A. Enzymes play a role in practically all body functions, including the production of energy, repair of tissues, organs, and cells, and digestion of our food. Enzymes are necessary even when there are sufficient amounts of vitamins, minerals and other nutrients already present. Digestive enzymes are secreted in the gastrointestinal tract, where they break down food particles, enabling nutrients to be absorbed into the bloodstream. Anytime you change your pet's diet, or your pet experiences stress from showing, illness or breeding, or as your pet ages, he/she can benefit from extra enzymes.

Q. What are Probiotics and how are they useful?

A. Probiotics are "friendly" bacteria, which support digestion as well as vaginal and urinary tract health. Probiotics are effective in combating yeast overgrowth, irritable or inflamed bowel conditions, stress, and negative effects of antibiotics, as well as helping prevent bloat, and restoring proper pH levels throughout the digestive tract. Thanks to their antimicrobial properties, they have also been shown to fight food poisoning and relieve flu-like symptoms.'*


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Shannon,
What form does the enzyme come in? Do you buy it at the pet store or elsewhere? Let me know!

Thanks..
Ryan


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Its in powder form. The one i like the most is 'Fresh Digest'. It has the enzymes & probiotics all in one with no fillers. Here is a link thru amazon:
Amazon.com: Fresh Digest Daily Digestive Aid for Dogs - 100 grams: Kitchen & Dining

Here is the companies website: http://www.inclover.com/fresh_digest_dogs.htmlhttp://www.inclover.com/fresh_digest_dogs.html

I love KVvet, the prices are fantastic & they only charge me $5 for shipping-no matter WHAT I BUY!! So i load up when i order. Plus i dont have to pay taxes. But i am not sure what shipping is to you in ON.

There is Prozyme, but it only has enzymes & no probiotics.

You only have to add 1/4 teaspoon per day.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

*NV rabbit*

Ok, i wrote a letter to Nature Variety today in regards to the sourcing of the raw materials, mainly rabbit.

This was their response:

*****************************************

Thanks for writing! We currently import rabbit carcasses, organ meats and fat from a facility in China. These are used primarily in our rabbit formula Nature's Variety™ Raw Frozen Diet. I have visited the facility personally and some of the associated rabbit farms. The sanitary standards and procedures are excellent. The facility is certified to export product to the European Union, which has very strict product quality and animal welfare requirements. We are currently working to qualify this EU-approved supplier for our can production where we face a shortage of EU-approved rabbit meat products.

The rabbits are fed an all natural, grass-based diet. No antibiotics or hormone supplements are used in rabbit production there (the rabbits breed and grow pretty fast all on their own).

It is helpful to understand the international market for rabbit meat to appreciate why we are sourcing product from China. Rabbit meat is consumed mainly in Europe, with France the largest consumer by far, followed by Germany and Italy. Europe is a net importer of rabbit meat; that is, more rabbit comes into Europe than is exported from it. China is the largest exporter of rabbit in the world and has been for many years. In order to assure an adequate supply of raw material we have gone where the product is available.

In addition to my personal inspection, we have a US-educated, Ph.D. food scientist on staff in China in order to assure product quality. He coordinates the services of third-party firms that provide additional quality audit and testing services. All products are tested for quality prior to being shipped. We test the raw materials for contaminants such as those involved in the spring recalls. All of our tests have been negative.

Our customers want rabbit products and we have sought out quality raw materials. We found them in China. We have taken steps to assure ourselves that the products are of the highest quality. I am seeking to convey that assurance to you in this post. We understand that some consumers do not trust any Chinese products regardless of assurances like this or otherwise do not want to purchase products from China. Many others do, however.

The lamb and Venison come from New Zealand and the rest of our meats are sourced from here in the US.

Thanks for your interest in Nature's Variety!

Customer Service


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Interesting Ryan, you got a much nicer response than I did (earlier in this thread) It looks like he lifted what the ceo posted on Itchmo. I stopped the rabbit, but I might go back. right now they are eating mostly the beef. and a little chicken.


----------



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Missy..
Wll I bought the rabbit yesterday and gave it to him tonight or dinner.. he loved it! (same as the other meats...)

Does anyone here see a problem with feeding the rabbit which is sourced from China?
Thanks!

Ryan


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Hmmmm, I don't know about the conditions in which rabbits are raised, but I refuse to buy fish from China anymore due to polluted waters. In all honesty, I'm leary of buying anything from China if I can get it here.


----------



## mikeyness (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm running out tomorrow to see how my boy does on raw, sounds like he'll love it. We all love our dogs so much that we'll spend hours researching what they eat, but then turn around and eat junk we shouldn't. I spend 5-10 minutes preparing Riley's meals, and will throw some frozen lasagna in the microwave for myself while preparing :biggrin1:.


----------



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Yep! We make sure they eat food with no fillers, preservatives-that have the best human grade ingredients etc... while we are stuffing our faces with Twinkies!! :doh: :laugh:


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

LuvMyHavanese said:


> Yep! We make sure they eat food with no fillers, preservatives-that have the best human grade ingredients etc... while we are stuffing our faces with Twinkies!! :doh: :laugh:


LOL. I'll feed my husband a bowl of soup for dinner. As he's eating, he sees me preparing USDA raw organic meat such as venison mixed with chicken or beef, soft boiled egg, salmon oil, organic veggies, topped of with a little yogart cheese! He just looks at me cross eyed!


----------

