# Question about the tail



## enp123 (Oct 26, 2010)

Hi,
We keep our Hav, Berto, in a puppy cut. The groomer does a great job--she keeps the paws longer than the body and he always looks stunning! I have noticed that she doesn't seem to cut the tail at all. Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. thx Elyse


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Hi, I am a groomer and most groomers will just trim the end of the tail so it doesn't drag on the floor. If she doesn't you can ask her to do that. Also, I've had people request the entire length of the tail trimmed because they think it's too much hair, but I try to talk people out of it because it ruins the tail and it takes a long time to grow back. A lot of times the tail ends up looking like a squirrel's tail - not very attractive!


----------



## Susan0406 (May 16, 2011)

My wee Whisky's tail isn't fluffy at all (it sort of looks like a feather), so I have asked the groomer to leave it alone. Will the tail get fluffier with age or will she always have a wee feather for a tail?


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

If she is a puppy, the length of hair on the tail will most likely match the length of the hair on the body if she hasn't had that hair cut yet. Tail hair can grow very long but it takes a long time. Just make sure she doesn't chew her hair out, I learned that the hard way! My puppy loves to chase her tail (like a lot of puppies) and one time she got a little too enthusiastic and bit off a big mouthful of tail hair! AARRRGGHH! I had to laugh as I picked up the fallen hair off the floor, now the end of her tail is quite thin ; (


----------



## Susan0406 (May 16, 2011)

Whisky loves nothing more than to chase her tail or wrap it around things and then bat at it (she is very cat like), I wonder if that has something to do with it being so feathery. It is funny I have spent a ton of money on toys and her two favourite are her tail and a plastic water bottle


----------



## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

I am happy to report that Baxter's tail has recently lengthened and is looking more plume-like (he is six-seven months). His was like a little feather, too, and I was having pretty serious tail-envy , but it does appear that they tails grow!


----------



## Susan0406 (May 16, 2011)

i definitely have some tail envy too  Thanks for giving me hope!!!!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

atsilvers27 said:


> Hi, I am a groomer and most groomers will just trim the end of the tail so it doesn't drag on the floor. If she doesn't you can ask her to do that. Also, I've had people request the entire length of the tail trimmed because they think it's too much hair, but I try to talk people out of it because it ruins the tail and it takes a long time to grow back. A lot of times the tail ends up looking like a squirrel's tail - not very attractive!


Why would a Hav's tail drag on the floor? Kodi's is curled neatly over his back the vast majority of the time. When he sleeps, he curls it around him.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Susan0406 said:


> My wee Whisky's tail isn't fluffy at all (it sort of looks like a feather), so I have asked the groomer to leave it alone. Will the tail get fluffier with age or will she always have a wee feather for a tail?


I don't know how old Whiskey is, but I know that I was concerned about this when Kodi was a puppy too. I saw other pups with beautiful, long tail hair, and Kodi had this little, skinny tail with just a fringe. His tail DID eventually grow, and now is a beautiful, long cascade over his back and down his side. I think Whiskey's is likely to grow too!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

atsilvers27 said:


> If she is a puppy, the length of hair on the tail will most likely match the length of the hair on the body if she hasn't had that hair cut yet. Tail hair can grow very long but it takes a long time. Just make sure she doesn't chew her hair out, I learned that the hard way! My puppy loves to chase her tail (like a lot of puppies) and one time she got a little too enthusiastic and bit off a big mouthful of tail hair! AARRRGGHH! I had to laugh as I picked up the fallen hair off the floor, now the end of her tail is quite thin ; (


At least you can blame her!!! Kodi lost a big chunk of tail at one point because I stepped on it when we were practicing tight finishes in obedience! Bad, bad Mommy!!!:frusty:


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

DonnaC said:


> I am happy to report that Baxter's tail has recently lengthened and is looking more plume-like (he is six-seven months). His was like a little feather, too, and I was having pretty serious tail-envy , but it does appear that they tails grow!


Oh, Kodi still had a wispy little thing at 7 months, so if Baxter is getting a tail now, you're doing way better than we did!:biggrin1: I think he was close to a year before it hung past the top plane of his back.


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

krandall said:


> Why would a Hav's tail drag on the floor? Kodi's is curled neatly over his back the vast majority of the time. When he sleeps, he curls it around him.


For the average pet owner of a drop-coated dog, trimming the tail to just above the floor is a good length because when the tail does drop down occasionally, the dog may not look balanced with a puppy cut and a tail that drags on the floor, many owners will tell me to cut it so it doesn't drag on the floor. Karen, your Kodi is full coated so it wouldn't really match the rest of him if his tail were trimmed. Most pet owners don't want any hair touching the floor as that tends to drag in dirt and debris, especially in the northeast where a little rain and dirt can make a big mess out of your dog. I'm also in a high income area with owners that send their nannies to drop and pick up the dog from grooming - they don't want their dog's hair dragging in the back yard into their homes.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

atsilvers27 said:


> For the average pet owner of a drop-coated dog, trimming the tail to just above the floor is a good length because when the tail does drop down occasionally, the dog may not look balanced with a puppy cut and a tail that drags on the floor, many owners will tell me to cut it so it doesn't drag on the floor. Karen, your Kodi is full coated so it wouldn't really match the rest of him if his tail were trimmed. Most pet owners don't want any hair touching the floor as that tends to drag in dirt and debris, especially in the northeast where a little rain and dirt can make a big mess out of your dog. I'm also in a high income area with owners that send their nannies to drop and pick up the dog from grooming - they don't want their dog's hair dragging in the back yard into their homes.


Right, I'm not talking about cutting Kodi's tail... My point was, how often would ANY Hav's tail be dragging in the dirt? Kodi spends a lot of time outside with me, and we have pictures of him (that I've shared here) up to his eyeballs in mud... but that tail never goes low enough to get in the dirt. The exception would be when sitting down (sometimes... even then, if he's alert, it's STILL in the air) but then it wouldn't matter whether it were long or short (unless it was cut VERY short)... it would still collect leaves or whatever. I can see some people would like a shorter tail just to sort of balance the "puppy look", but I can't see it from the standpoint of dragging on the ground.

Here are some examples. Can't get much ickier than this, but the TAIL stays clean!ound:

BTW, he was about 11 months old at the time.


----------



## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

krandall said:


> Right, I'm not talking about cutting Kodi's tail... My point was, how often would ANY Hav's tail be dragging in the dirt? Kodi spends a lot of time outside with me, and we have pictures of him (that I've shared here) up to his eyeballs in mud... but that tail never goes low enough to get in the dirt. The exception would be when sitting down (sometimes... even then, if he's alert, it's STILL in the air) but then it wouldn't matter whether it were long or short (unless it was cut VERY short)... it would still collect leaves or whatever. I can see some people would like a shorter tail just to sort of balance the "puppy look", but I can't see it from the standpoint of dragging on the ground.
> 
> Here are some examples. Can't get much ickier than this, but the TAIL stays clean!ound:
> 
> BTW, he was about 11 months old at the time.


Hahaha Karen, it looks like he was trying to make his belly match his head!


----------



## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Karen, these pictures of Kodi always make me smile, (and groan, a little... :fear: ) It's so nice seeing our beautiful dogs being.... dogs! Ha!


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

krandall said:


> Right, I'm not talking about cutting Kodi's tail... My point was, how often would ANY Hav's tail be dragging in the dirt? Kodi spends a lot of time outside with me, and we have pictures of him (that I've shared here) up to his eyeballs in mud... but that tail never goes low enough to get in the dirt. The exception would be when sitting down (sometimes... even then, if he's alert, it's STILL in the air) but then it wouldn't matter whether it were long or short (unless it was cut VERY short)... it would still collect leaves or whatever. I can see some people would like a shorter tail just to sort of balance the "puppy look", but I can't see it from the standpoint of dragging on the ground.
> 
> Here are some examples. Can't get much ickier than this, but the TAIL stays clean!ound:
> 
> BTW, he was about 11 months old at the time.


Karen,

You've made your point. Kodi is in a mud pond yet his tail is still sparkly white. If that were my dog half her tail would be brown because when she is more relaxed, she sometimes drops her tail. If you see on my avatar, her tail is down and I have to hold her tail up when stacking her in the show ring, she just doesn't hold it up all the time like Kodi! Not every Havanese on earth holds the tail as proudly as Kodi does! I was just offering a simple suggestion to someone's question, and as a groomer I do get a lot of "Trim his tail so it doesn't hit the floor, he drags in dirt," and I was just relating that.


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

krandall said:


> Right, I'm not talking about cutting Kodi's tail... My point was, how often would ANY Hav's tail be dragging in the dirt? Kodi spends a lot of time outside with me, and we have pictures of him (that I've shared here) up to his eyeballs in mud... but that tail never goes low enough to get in the dirt. The exception would be when sitting down (sometimes... even then, if he's alert, it's STILL in the air) but then it wouldn't matter whether it were long or short (unless it was cut VERY short)... it would still collect leaves or whatever. I can see some people would like a shorter tail just to sort of balance the "puppy look", but I can't see it from the standpoint of dragging on the ground.
> 
> Here are some examples. Can't get much ickier than this, but the TAIL stays clean!ound:
> 
> BTW, he was about 11 months old at the time.


I'm disappointed in your blatant MOCKING of my suggestions. I thought this was a place to help each other and chose tidbits from here or there, not to mock one another. I don't really care all that much about you trying to "win" a conversation, but it's just an opinion and people are entitled to chose. I'm just getting a little tired of it, that's all.


----------



## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

atsilvers27 said:


> I'm disappointed in your blatant MOCKING of my suggestions. I thought this was a place to help each other and chose tidbits from here or there, not to mock one another. I don't really care all that much about you trying to "win" a conversation, but it's just an opinion and people are entitled to chose. I'm just getting a little tired of it, that's all.


I really don't think Karen was trying to mock you, atsilvers.

Havs tend to have curly tails but you're right, some of them have less curly tails than others. Cey keeps his tail curled over his back almost all the time, except for when he's being reprimanded or when he's a little bit scared, or when he's just totally relaxed. Some hav's tails are tightly curled like a corkscrew, some are more plume-like when curled (like Ceylon's). There's even a hav on this forum who was born with a docked tail!


----------



## Tessa's Mommy (May 20, 2011)

:focus:
Cooper is five and has never had his tail cut, a little trim once in a while. His tail is usually up and curled except when he is scared like during a thunder storm. I just noticed yesterday, that Tessas tail fur has started grow and is starting to look like a real Havanese tail. I do not think that I will get either of their tails cut ever no matter how long or short I let their coats grow. I also am not going to let the groomer cut either of their ears either. Coopers ears were butchered about 2 years ago by a groomer who did not listen to me and the fur is still not as long as it was before she cut them.


----------



## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

krandall said:


> Why would a Hav's tail drag on the floor? Kodi's is curled neatly over his back the vast majority of the time. When he sleeps, he curls it around him.


Karen, I have had to cut Augie's tail at the tip to keep it from dragging on the ground. He carries his up over his back but the length falls and drops and was dragging on the ground. I think Augie is a bit older than Kodi - he will be 3 this month - so given time, Kodi's may end up dragging as well. It has been just in the last six months or so that it has gotten this long.



krandall said:


> At least you can blame her!!! Kodi lost a big chunk of tail at one point because I stepped on it when we were practicing tight finishes in obedience! Bad, bad Mommy!!!:frusty:


Augie doesn't have quite the thick tail he used to have, thanks to me doing the same thing - more than once. Made me sick to see those clusters of nice long tail hairs on the ground.


----------



## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Actually, Lizzie's tail is more of the "undesirable" circle shape. Her tail hair has never been cut and it is down to the floor. It blends in with her leg hair. It isn't the tip of her tail hair either, it is the hair that is at the beginning of the tail.


----------



## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

I loved the picture in the mud. My Oliver is a "Pig Pen" but it's his feet and legs, sometimes belly hair. Had no problem with the tail. He's not one of those dogs who always has his tail up, but we've not had mud stains on his tail.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

atsilvers27 said:


> I'm disappointed in your blatant MOCKING of my suggestions. I thought this was a place to help each other and chose tidbits from here or there, not to mock one another. I don't really care all that much about you trying to "win" a conversation, but it's just an opinion and people are entitled to chose. I'm just getting a little tired of it, that's all.


I certainly wasn't mocking you! I'm NOT a groomer, and honestly haven't met many Havs who don't carry their tails up unless they are upset or scared. I thought Hanna's tail was down in your photo because she was on the grooming table... same for showing... I can see how that would be stressful for a young dog.

As far as the photos were concerned, I wasn't trying to "win" anything... I thought the pictures were funny, and thought you'd enjoy them too.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> Karen, I have had to cut Augie's tail at the tip to keep it from dragging on the ground. He carries his up over his back but the length falls and drops and was dragging on the ground. I think Augie is a bit older than Kodi - he will be 3 this month - so given time, Kodi's may end up dragging as well. It has been just in the last six months or so that it has gotten this long.


Wow!!! That's one long tail! But he seems to have a super luxuriant coat anyway... at least until he got a little brother!:biggrin1:


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> Right, I'm not talking about cutting Kodi's tail... My point was, how often would ANY Hav's tail be dragging in the dirt? Kodi spends a lot of time outside with me, and we have pictures of him (that I've shared here) up to his eyeballs in mud... but that tail never goes low enough to get in the dirt. The exception would be when sitting down (sometimes... even then, if he's alert, it's STILL in the air) but then it wouldn't matter whether it were long or short (unless it was cut VERY short)... it would still collect leaves or whatever. I can see some people would like a shorter tail just to sort of balance the "puppy look", but I can't see it from the standpoint of dragging on the ground.
> 
> Here are some examples. Can't get much ickier than this, but the TAIL stays clean!ound:
> 
> BTW, he was about 11 months old at the time.


 Good example his tail is about the only clean part ound: He sure has a good life.


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I have always loved Zoeys bulls eye black circle right on top of her tale. But I think it may be a flaw in the show ring because that is what you look at.


----------



## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

krandall said:


> Wow!!! That's one long tail! But he seems to have a super luxuriant coat anyway... at least until he got a little brother!:biggrin1:


I have very few photos of Augie's back end. He prefers to have his photo taken from the front - he thinks that is his best side; however, I think it is up for debate! ound: Here is one of him and Finn wrestling and isn't in focus at all, but you can get some idea of the length.

In going through my photos, trying to find one of Augie's tail, I am stunned at how big Finn has gotten. I want to cry. He was such a cute puppy and now he is this big stinker.  I think he is larger than Augie these days.


----------



## enp123 (Oct 26, 2010)

Thank you everyone. Sounds like groomer knows what she is doing. I happen to have a nice "rear" shot:


----------



## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

The tail set of the Havs use to confuse me until I read the standard. Both my dogs have different tails, they both have a tail within the standard. Yogi who is a hairy beast never fully drops his tail, he will lower it but never drops it. Misty who is a shy dog use to carry her tail down all of the time, I was told by a trainer she was too old to correct it. My experience has been different, Misty went through a period where her tail tip would flip up at the tip only. Today her tail is most of the time over her back...still not always...she still is shy. I too let my guys get dirty if Misty was still holding her tail down it would be dirty...but confindent dogs should not do this. The tail is a big deal if you are showing and puppies often take time to gain the confidence to hold their tails up.


----------



## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Milo has the most beautiful tail of my three and his often reaches the floor. All of mine almost always carry their tails high over their bodies. It's so cute to watch them wag those little plumes. At one point, Milo who almost never has problem stools, had not only had a really loose bowel movement, which I somehow missed till it was time to go to bed, but he obviously sat on it, making it for a time an integral part of his body. The stench drove me to search for the problem. It was so bad and so smashed into his fur that after trying desperately to get it out, I cut a portion, without realizing I was cutting a big chunk out of his gorgeous tail hair. It took a long time for it to look normal again.


----------



## farschie (Jan 6, 2021)

I have a tail tip question that might be silly, but....I snipped off the very tip of Kaya’s tail (12 week old puppy) and I regret it! Do you think the white tip will grow back? Now it’s all black and red and I miss her sassy little white tip! She has 4 white paws but is otherwise mostly red with some black and a white ruff.


----------



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that white tip is gone ... Kaya is such a little cutie!


----------



## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

What a doll! Our youngest (Jodie) has changed a lot in color the past 2 years. It's normal for some Havanese but Jodie has gone from almost black to mostly silver. I felt the same way when I finally had to trim her black tips😢 
Kaya is still a cute, sassy look'n princess though!


----------



## farschie (Jan 6, 2021)

Thank you both for replying. Gutless what??? The white is coming back!


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

krandall said:


> Why would a Hav's tail drag on the floor? Kodi's is curled neatly over his back the vast majority of the time. When he sleeps, he curls it around him.


I think Kodi has some curl in his pretty tail and he may have a high curl. Patti's body hair is black and white wavy hair but her white tail hair is straight as a pencil. Her black tail hair is curly or very wavy but a lot shorter.

Even when Patti curls and flips her tail hair up on her back the ends of her white tail hair dragged the ground. I trimmed the ends. It's good to know one should do much trimming if any on the tail.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Mikki said:


> I think Kodi has some curl in his pretty tail and he may have a high curl. Patti's body hair is black and white wavy hair but her white tail hair is straight as a pencil. Her black tail hair is curly or very wavy but a lot shorter.
> 
> Even when Patti curls and flips her tail hair up on her back the ends of her white tail hair dragged the ground. I trimmed the ends. It's good to know one should do much trimming if any on the tail.


It also occurred to me that the dragging may also have something to do with tail carriage as well as size. All of mine have pretty high tail carriage, with their tails held high over their backs, and only the very tip touching. That gives further for the hair to go before coming near the ground. If the dog has a tighter tail, so the tail lies closer to the back, it has a shorter distance (by several inches) before hitting the ground. Add Kodi's longer legs, and it's got a LONG way to go... especially when you compare him, at 11 1/2" to a bottom of the standard Havanese, at 8 1/2". Just for kicks, I just measured the top of the arch of Kodi's tail, and it's 4" above his rump. That means that his tail would need to fall about 16 1/2" to touch the floor. I ALSO measured his tail, and it's 14" long. So on an 8 1/2" dog with a TIGHT tail, so, let's say, only an inch above his back, the same length tail would be dragging on the floor by 5"! I THINK I figured it out! 

NOW... There are ALSO dogs like PANDA, who just have sparse little tails that are NEVER gonna touch the floor or even come close! LOL!


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

krandall said:


> It also occurred to me that the dragging may also have something to do with tail carriage as well as size. All of mine have pretty high tail carriage, with their tails held high over their backs, and only the very tip touching. That gives further for the hair to go before coming near the ground. If the dog has a tighter tail, so the tail lies closer to the back, it has a shorter distance (by several inches) before hitting the ground. Add Kodi's longer legs, and it's got a LONG way to go... especially when you compare him, at 11 1/2" to a bottom of the standard Havanese, at 8 1/2". Just for kicks, I just measured the top of the arch of Kodi's tail, and it's 4" above his rump. That means that his tail would need to fall about 16 1/2" to touch the floor. I ALSO measured his tail, and it's 14" long. So on an 8 1/2" dog with a TIGHT tail, so, let's say, only an inch above his back, the same length tail would be dragging on the floor by 5"! I THINK I figured it out!
> 
> NOW... There are ALSO dogs like PANDA, who just have sparse little tails that are NEVER gonna touch the floor or even come close! LOL!


When I first wrote my post about Patti's tail ... I tried to check how high Patti's tail stands on her back but she's very concerned about me messing with her tail. It stood high was a puppy but her Tail Feathers cover it up and I can't tell by looking. I think the weight of the hair may pull her curled down a bit.

I'll try again one of these days to check the height of her curled tail.:wink2:


----------

