# Baker's been acting up...



## timeblind (Sep 3, 2014)

Baker's pretty well trained on using his Rascal Dog litter tray (we put a pee pad under the grate). Even if we're playing in a separate room, he'd run out and zoom straight for his tray. After he got his second set of shots, my boyfriend and I started taking him outside to potty. That's when the troubles started.

We put Baker into his crate like 15 minutes before we take him out to pee. If he pees outside successfully, he's rewarded with a walk around the courtyard (leash training) and then freedom in the apartment for 15-30 minutes. If boyfriend and I can't supervise him, he goes into the ex-pen (which he absolutely hates by the way). He's been doing what I think are "vindictive pees" for suddenly putting him in the crate or locking him in his ex-pen. We have a plastic sheet under his ex-pen area to protect our floors and sometimes he'd just pee on the plastic. It's not a big pee so I know it's not because he can't hold it! 

He's also doing that "boy" thing, where he only puts two legs into his tray and so when he does decide to use the tray, he misses completely.

I think boyfriend and I gave him too much freedom on the get go, so now Baker is upset that we're not giving him that freedom anymore. And because I've been on holidays, I think Baker's gotten used to me being there for long periods of time, too, because he fights his ex-pen even when I leave for an hour and a half to two hours for appointments (I leave him a kibble & peanut butter filled Kong). This is troubling because I'm going back to work next week. 

He was doing so well up until we let him see the outside world. I feel like he's done a 180! Oh, Baker is almost 15 weeks old. Is he going to have tons of trouble adjusting to a new routine net week? How can I ease him into it?


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## RitaandRiley (Feb 27, 2012)

He's just a baby baby! It's too soon to expect a lot from him, more patience is needed. He might also be confused about the new "outside" thing. He's not doing "vindictive" pees. Dogs don't think like that.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yup. What Rita said. Puppies (or even adult dogs) are not "vindictive". If there are potty accidents, it is ALWAYS a training problem. You need to confine and or supervise more closely, and set him up for success. 

I'm not sure what your thought process is for putting him in the crate for 15 minutes before you take him out. It could be that this is causing anxiety, which is causing leakage with an immature sphincter. That's what it sounds like if it's only small amounts of pee.

As far as just getting his front feet in… that's not a "boy" thing… It's a puppy thing. You need to go with him, and make sure ALL of him in on the box before he pees.

It sounds like there were a lot of changes and inconsistencies over the holidays. This is a pretty typical consequence of that. He'll get back on track, but you have to be very vigilant, very consistent and very patient.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

timeblind said:


> Oh, Baker is almost 15 weeks old.


Speaking as a doggie with some experience in this area.....has Baker been (ahem) neutered yet? Doggies don't things to be mean. Baker is just going through his developmental stages. He may be in the very early stages of "marking his territory." My Vet told my Popi that the earlier a male is neutered (at an appropriate age), the sooner you can nip this kind of NATURAL behavior in the butt. Baker just needs consistent and patient direction from you. When I was adapting to my forever home, my Popi took me out every 30 minutes into the yard (on my leash) to see if I needed to go. It didn't take long for the light bulb to go on in my head that this is the behavior expected from me. I recommend you not put him into the crate or ex-pen to potty. He is now looking at those two places as a form of punishment. Take mi amigo Baker outside to relieve himself. And I can tell you this......a tasty training treat works much better as a reward than a tour of the yard! opcorn:

Baker, you are doing just great for only 15 weeks. Keep working hard at it amigo and before you know it, you will know exactly what is expected of you.

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## timeblind (Sep 3, 2014)

Thank you very much everyone! Yeah, my bf and I thought it was just a patience thing. It just threw us off because he was doing so well before the holidays. And I guess the change in routine with me being off work & the introduction of the outside world really confused him. We got a bell for him so we can start training him to hit the bell if he has to go potty outside! He's so smart so we're hoping he'll learn what the bell means in no time. We'll keep a closer eye on him in the mean time. 

Haha, I thought it was a "boy" thing to just put his front feet in the tray because I dug up on old thread where 5 or 6 people chimed in that their boys did the exact same thing! I think the thread was from 2012 though.

Ricky, Baker hasn't been neutered yet. He'll be neutered around the 6 months mark!  And we do give Baker a treat after he potties outside PLUS a walk around the courtyard in the morning, afternoon and once in the evening too. Other times, he gets the privilege of zooming back up 3 flights of stairs and down the hallway. 

Karen, I think I misunderstood/misread something - that I'm supposed to put him in the crate only if he doesn't potty the first time around... oops! He never liked his ex-pen in the first place... but we'll work on that.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Speaking as a doggie with some experience in this area.....has Baker been (ahem) neutered yet? Doggies don't things to be mean. Baker is just going through his developmental stages. He may be in the very early stages of "marking his territory." My Vet told my Popi that the earlier a male is neutered (at an appropriate age), the sooner you can nip this kind of NATURAL behavior in the butt. Baker just needs consistent and patient direction from you. When I was adapting to my forever home, my Popi took me out every 30 minutes into the yard (on my leash) to see if I needed to go. It didn't take long for the light bulb to go on in my head that this is the behavior expected from me. I recommend you not put him into the crate or ex-pen to potty. He is now looking at those two places as a form of punishment. Take mi amigo Baker outside to relieve himself. And I can tell you this......a tasty training treat works much better as a reward than a tour of the yard! opcorn:
> 
> Baker, you are doing just great for only 15 weeks. Keep working hard at it amigo and before you know it, you will know exactly what is expected of you.
> 
> besos, Ricky Ricardo


Dear Ricky, if Baker is only 15 weeks old, he is MUCH too young to be neutered yet. Nor should he be marking. There has been a lot of research showing that early spay/neuter has a number of serious health risks. Vets like to promote it,because they can't always tell who will be the responsible owners who keep their pets from breeding indiscriminately and who won't. By all means, if you can't/won't keep an intact male or female away from intact dogs of the opposite sex, spay/neuter earlier rather than later.

As far as marking is concerned, it is definitely DIFFERENT from "potty training", but it is a behavior that can be trained, just as easily, if you are consistent. I just had a 3 year old stud dog with me for 2 1/2 weeks. He had just bred his first "lady friend", and that he was "all that". He came to me in a belly band, because his owner said she didn't yet trust him, since his little tryst. In less than 2 weeks, he was reliably NOT marking in my house, after me carefully watching and/or confining him.

When he went back to his owner, we were not sure whether this training would carry over to that environment, but two days later, and he's still staying dry! So you can CERTAINLY teach a dog not to mark in the house, just as you can potty train them.

You just need to understand that in the DOG'S mind, peeing and pooping are NOT the same as marking. It has a completely different purpose in their life. You just need to teach them that this isn't acceptable in the house either!

All that said, I don't think this has ANYTHING to do with what Barker's doing. He's just a little baby dog who hasn't developed strong (good) potty habits yet.


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

Looks like the gang here have this covered, but I'll chime in and say that if you're leaving for 1.5-2 hours, it may be better to leave Baker in his crate for that period of time. The close confinement prevents pottying, and limits the kind of angsty pacing and whining and barking that can happen if they feel they've been abandoned. I don't think I left Archer alone in his ex-pen when I left the house until he was probably 5 or 6 months. And I started slowly with just 15-20 minute jaunts out of the house when I wanted to do the ex-pen. Even now, he is limited to one room when I am out for the day, and I'll be working on expanding that over the rest of the winter. Even with many options on how to entertain himself, when I check in on him using my webcam, he is usually snoozing in his open crate!

In terms of outdoor pottying, when I started training Archer for that, I also moved his rascal dog tray to our outdoor patio. Mind you I am on a 3rd floor of a downtown condo. I wanted to transfer the whole concept of pottying to be outdoors, and I didn't fancy having an indoor litterbox for the long-term. I love having it on the patio though for those early mornings and late nights. If you have any way to set up something similar, it might be worth doing. Archer steps to the sill of our patio and whines when he wants out. Works for me because it gets my attention from across the apartment. He prefers to wait until his walks for #2, but he always has the option to be let out to the patio when we are home.

I also found it really takes time for these little guys to be able to "hold it". I think somewhere around 5-6 months it was like the control kind of suddenly appeared, and now, at a year old, Archer has no problem being home 9-4, though I prefer not to leave him so long. And yup, the two feet on the tray also happened here, but what I did was not reward him with his little post-potty food treat unless he was "all-aboard". You may want to hold off on that though until his habits are better instilled. At his age, even showing the intention to get over to the tray is a positive thing, I think.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jen, Kodi is 5 1/2 and I STILL see no reason to give him more than one room when I'm out… for two reasons. First, I can see that he is more anxious when I leave even for a few minutes if he's loose. When I get home, he's not snoozing comfortably in his open crate, he's plastered himself to whatever door I went out. 

Second, dogs are dogs and you never know when they are going to get it into their minds to eat something you NEVER would have expected. And if that happens to be something that's bad for them and you aren't there to intervene… When he's in my office with a gate across, he is perfectly comfortable and happy. He has the couch, his crate, and under my desk. He has some toys, a couple of antlers, his water bottle and his litter box. He's all set. 

Actually of all the experienced professional or competitive dog people I know, almost none leave their dogs loose when they are not home to supervise. And that's especially true if it's a multiple dog household. Developmentally, dogs are a lot like toddlers. And you wouldn't leave your toddler unsupervised. At least we have the option of crating or otherwise confining our dogs… I think they call Child Services if you do that to your kid! :laugh:


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

krandall said:


> Jen, Kodi is 5 1/2 and I STILL see no reason to give him more than one room when I'm out&#8230; for two reasons. First, I can see that he is more anxious when I leave even for a few minutes if he's loose. When I get home, he's not snoozing comfortably in his open crate, he's plastered himself to whatever door I went out.
> 
> Second, dogs are dogs and you never know when they are going to get it into their minds to eat something you NEVER would have expected. And if that happens to be something that's bad for them and you aren't there to intervene&#8230; When he's in my office with a gate across, he is perfectly comfortable and happy. He has the couch, his crate, and under my desk. He has some toys, a couple of antlers, his water bottle and his litter box. He's all set.
> 
> Actually of all the experienced professional or competitive dog people I know, almost none leave their dogs loose when they are not home to supervise. And that's especially true if it's a multiple dog household. Developmentally, dogs are a lot like toddlers. And you wouldn't leave your toddler unsupervised. At least we have the option of crating or otherwise confining our dogs&#8230; I think they call Child Services if you do that to your kid! :laugh:


Wow, that is really interesting. It seems a fine arrangement to me; but I thought I may be holding him back from the next level of development or something. The only problem is my office area closes with glass doors and gets super-hot in the summer. So I was hoping not to have to confine him as much by then (he was in the ex-pen the last summer). I could get gates but the way things are there aren't any that will fit well.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Naturelover said:


> Wow, that is really interesting. It seems a fine arrangement to me; but I thought I may be holding him back from the next level of development or something. The only problem is my office area closes with glass doors and gets super-hot in the summer. So I was hoping not to have to confine him as much by then (he was in the ex-pen the last summer). I could get gates but the way things are there aren't any that will fit well.


The funny thing is that the gate I use for my office is a cheap, cheap, CHEAP trifold similar to this: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Pet-Parade-Pet-Gate/16661404

It wouldn't keep him in if he didn't want to be there. I've even come home and found the cat has pushed a corner open to get through. All he'd have to do is nudge it with his nose, and he'd fit through too. But he doesn't. He knows that's his space.

He had an ex-pen in the diningroom where he was confined when we were out until he was about 2 1/2. At that point, we put an addition on the house, and the ex-pen was in the way while work was being done, so we had no choice but to crate him when we weren't home. (WAY too many things to get into with construction going on!!!) When my office was completed, that seemed like the perfect "next step" and he's been there ever since.


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## civano (Sep 29, 2014)

Naturelover said:


> Looks like the gang here have this covered, but I'll chime in and say that if you're leaving for 1.5-2 hours, it may be better to leave Baker in his crate for that period of time. The close confinement prevents pottying, and limits the kind of angsty pacing and whining and barking that can happen if they feel they've been abandoned. I don't think I left Archer alone in his ex-pen when I left the house until he was probably 5 or 6 months. And I started slowly with just 15-20 minute jaunts out of the house when I wanted to do the ex-pen. Even now, he is limited to one room when I am out for the day, and I'll be working on expanding that over the rest of the winter. Even with many options on how to entertain himself, when I check in on him using my webcam, he is usually snoozing in his open crate!
> 
> In terms of outdoor pottying, when I started training Archer for that, I also moved his rascal dog tray to our outdoor patio. Mind you I am on a 3rd floor of a downtown condo. I wanted to transfer the whole concept of pottying to be outdoors, and I didn't fancy having an indoor litterbox for the long-term. I love having it on the patio though for those early mornings and late nights. If you have any way to set up something similar, it might be worth doing. Archer steps to the sill of our patio and whines when he wants out. Works for me because it gets my attention from across the apartment. He prefers to wait until his walks for #2, but he always has the option to be let out to the patio when we are home.
> 
> I also found it really takes time for these little guys to be able to "hold it". I think somewhere around 5-6 months it was like the control kind of suddenly appeared, and now, at a year old, Archer has no problem being home 9-4, though I prefer not to leave him so long. And yup, the two feet on the tray also happened here, but what I did was not reward him with his little post-potty food treat unless he was "all-aboard". You may want to hold off on that though until his habits are better instilled. At his age, even showing the intention to get over to the tray is a positive thing, I think.


Your reply was really helpful to me as I've never used an xpen before until now with my Havanese puppy and had only used crates before and the last puppy I had was over 10 years ago!

Thanks to the original poster for posting! :biggrin1:


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## timeblind (Sep 3, 2014)

Naturelover said:


> Looks like the gang here have this covered, but I'll chime in and say that if you're leaving for 1.5-2 hours, it may be better to leave Baker in his crate for that period of time.


I think Baker's getting used to the ex-pen again. The key is to get Baker tired enough that he just wants to sleep when we leave him for the day. My boyfriend and I both have to work (staggered schedules, luckily), and for this first week (back to work for me, after the holidays) my boyfriend's mom has been coming over after 2-3 hours of alone time to take Baker out for a walk/run, even taking him out to meet her friends' dogs! And then Baker's home alone again for 2 hours or so before my boyfriend comes home. He'll be lounging in his bed when we come home, sometimes asleep, sometimes on alert, but he never barks. And we make sure to act normal and put down our stuff first before we give Baker any attention so he knows us coming home isn't a big deal.



Naturelover said:


> In terms of outdoor pottying, when I started training Archer for that, I also moved his rascal dog tray to our outdoor patio. Mind you I am on a 3rd floor of a downtown condo. I wanted to transfer the whole concept of pottying to be outdoors, and I didn't fancy having an indoor litterbox for the long-term.


We would put his tray on the patio, Jen, but even though our patio's covered, if there's even a slight bit of wind, the entire patio gets wet. 



Naturelover said:


> I also found it really takes time for these little guys to be able to "hold it". I think somewhere around 5-6 months it was like the control kind of suddenly appeared, and now, at a year old, Archer has no problem being home 9-4, though I prefer not to leave him so long. And yup, the two feet on the tray also happened here, but what I did was not reward him with his little post-potty food treat unless he was "all-aboard". You may want to hold off on that though until his habits are better instilled. At his age, even showing the intention to get over to the tray is a positive thing, I think.


Yeah, Baker's definitely not that reliable yet! I think he holds his potty moments for when someone's home now. We'd let him out of his ex-pen and he'd come for some hugs and kisses and then he'd go pee on the tray if we don't take him out right away (lesson learned after this happened twice!). Plus he gets treats if he potties outside. I never treated him for pottying into his tray... but for some reason he hasn't done the "just two feet" thing since I posted about it here.

And the bell is working! Well, sort of. Two days ago he pooped in his tray AND THEN he rang the bell. ound: Today he drove my boyfriend crazy because he'd ring the bell, then they'd go outside, then they'd come back up (we're on the 3rd floor too!) and Baker would ring the bell again. Except the 2nd time Baker rang the bell, he did end up pooping outside. Yay! Progress!

Thank you everyone for your help and reassurances! :whoo:


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