# Bad Breeder Alert!



## windym300

I would like to start by saying that I don't post very much on here but I read just about everything that I have time to read. I do feel like I know most of you that post often. I really appreciate all of the advice and time you give to inform and try to help everyone who asks for it. Anyway, I don't want to write a long post to explain my whole situation that led up to why I am so mad right now. I am not great at writing and stuff anyway here goes.. I have a great friend that is also my dog's breeder who is wonderful and she is my mentor and everything. Anyway, one of my clients had asked me about this lady that she had went to school with that she ran into that also bred Havanese. Anyway, long story short- my breeder knew this lady and had tried to help her thinking she wanted to do things the right way. She took me over there one day last year to let me see her set up.. Let me just say OMG! She had so many dogs and she was keeping some of them(pups too) in electric fences because she can't contain them, is what she said! I could write a book about the hour or so I was there. She was having my breeder evaluate some of her pups for show. Which she never intended to follow through with showing any of them and she couldn't even tell you the pups mom and dad she had so many. When my breeder would say to me Bogie(My hav) is sooo cute! He just looks like a Havanese which she said made her feel so good about her breeding program. I would think well he is a havanese. But after seeing most of her dogs I can now see why she says that. So after that tramatic experience I have been so sad for all the poor dogs that she has. I even saw her a couple months later in the grocery store buying the biggest bag of the cheapest dog food available. So now the reason I am so mad! She now has a website with tons of pics of cute pups on it saying she does health test and dna?? And she has started to plaster classified ads everywhere. I know she is a nut!! Her dogs are not socialized!! And she has payment plans!! She has even been selling these pups with full registrations so just anyone could breed them too!! Needless to say my breeder and all of the good ones around us shun her and do not have anything to do with her but it is just so frustrating! I am not sure if after saying all that if I'm allowed to say the website or not so I will hold off.. I just wish I could do something! UGH! Thanks for letting me vent!

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## lfung5

Geez, she almost sounds like a puppy mill! I'm sure it's hard to erase those images you saw and I'm sure your heart breaks for the dogs. I wish she could be stopped. The sad part is I'm sure her pups will end up in mills if she is offering full breeding rights. Can you PM me her website? I'm curious.


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## windym300

lfung5 said:


> Geez, she almost sounds like a puppy mill! I'm sure it's hard to erase those images you saw and I'm sure your heart breaks for the dogs. I wish she could be stopped. The sad part is I'm sure her pups will end up in mills if she is offering full breeding rights. Can you PM me her website? I'm curious.


Yes! I would love to!

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## andra

Oh my goodness, that is so sad. My heart breaks when I read about dogs and pups being mistreated. And the electric fences for the puppies--I am assuming it means the pup gets shocked if it touches it. That is outrageous  It also worries me because innocent people not 'in the know' are thinking they are getting puppies that have been fed properly, loved and treated well. 

Could you send me her link, too. Although I am not currently looking for a pup, it would be just my luck to be duped by her if/when I begin my search.

This is a big fear of mine; if something happened to Dionna (other than old age), I would be out of my mind with grief, which would make me vulnerable to making a bad decision.

I am sorry that you had to witness that. It must have been incredibly heartbreaking.


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## lfung5

If people can't tell just by her website that she is not a good breeder, I give up! So sad for the wee pups.

She says she health tests, but that's probably a lie. Nothing is posted on OFFA site....


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## miller123

andra said:


> Oh my goodness, that is so sad. My heart breaks when I read about dogs and pups being mistreated. And the electric fences for the puppies--I am assuming it means the pup gets shocked if it touches it.


or the electric fences could be e-collar and under ground wire, which sickens me. I would never ever use such a thing on my dog, IMHO, people that use shock collars on family pets or very small dogs shouldn't own any dogs at all. Especially to contain puppy's.


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## Bidik

Have you considered letting authorities know about this?

http://www.humanesociety.org/forms/tell_us_your_puppy_mill_story.html

Please keep us posted on how it goes.


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## windym300

miller123 said:


> or the electric fences could be e-collar and under ground wire, which sickens me. I would never ever use such a thing on my dog, IMHO, people that use shock collars on family pets or very small dogs shouldn't own any dogs at all. Especially to contain puppy's.


No this was an actual electric fence! Her excuse was that all her fencing was destroyed in the tornados we had the previous yr. It had been a yr though! Not enough excuse for me. Yes, when we first arrived one of the pups was playing with a ball that had slipped under the fence and it was trying so hard not to touch the wire when it was pawing at the ball trying to get it back and I didn't understand why and then all the sudden it touched it and yelped and she told us she had to have it that way because they kept climbing out.. This is only one example of what I saw there, it was very tramatic for me to say the least. Sad thing is she really wasn't trying to hide any of this stuff.. So hopefully most people will realize she's nuts.. I just wish this stuff didn't happen but it does and I wish I could do more to stop it.

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## windym300

Bidik said:


> Have you considered letting authorities know about this?
> 
> http://www.humanesociety.org/forms/tell_us_your_puppy_mill_story.html
> 
> Please keep us posted on how it goes.


No, I guess I could try that. I will keep you posted on that! Maybe I could do more! Thanks!

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## Suzi

I don't see why you cant post the name of her web site. That way when people find it their is a chance they will see this trend. Then they can read how to look for a reputable breeder. Its a free country and you can express yourself with out being sewed for slander . I think that's true?. Why feel you need to protect this forum its not a rule we cant post web sites.


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## windym300

Well I just didn't want to be out of line. Do you think it is allowed? I also didn't want to do it out of anger.. But I'm still angry about it..lol..

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## waybrook

Would you please pm me the website? There have been a number of people locally asking about breeders in the GA, FL, AL area - I want to make sure they avoid this one...
Thanks!


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## Suzi

Hopefully one of our monitors will tell us if its okay. Will you PM me I'm far away but want to see.


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## Ruthi

Can you pm me the website? I am in the area. That is just plain old abuse to puppies.


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## Beau's mom

Please pm the breeder's name to me also. Thanks.


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## emichel

Why don't you just post in instead of PM-ing everybody. If it's a website it's public knowledge, so I don't see what's wrong with posting the link. The more people that know about it the better.
-- Eileen


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## dodrop82

Yep, go ahead and post it. We've discussed the pros and cons of many websites on this forum.


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## krandall

I don't see any problem with posting a web address and letting people come to their own conclusions.


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## andra

Especially since you witnessed, first hand, what you reported on at the breeder's house. You are not making this up therefore it is not slander/libel.

I looked at the website; it is heartbreaking to look at the puppies knowing that they are not being properly cared for based on what you reported.


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## Odieo

Wendy, yes please post the website, I know one of my co-workers is looking for puppies here in GA, I would like to let him know to stay away from this one. Or PM me please.


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## windym300

Ok since I am being very truthful and did witness this all then I will just go ahead and post the website. Sorry for all the hoopla I just didn't want to do too much out of anger. But to get the facts straight it was a while ago that I was at her house. Last May I think. I just found her new website this weekend. I didn't realize until I saw her website it looked like she really turned into a puppy mill. She actually looked close to a puppy mill to me in May but was still seeking help and advice from my breeder so I didn't really know what to think. Anyway, without further a due harvestmoondoggies.com ..

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## Suzi

I looked at the web site and she seems to price her puppy s really strange. One she says is very rare but the puppy will end up all cream I bet .
Tan/tri-color male. Buff/ white/ blaze face. $1,900 Very Rare. Black puppy's go for less than half of her so called rare one. And Black and white are more too. I bet she just charges what she thinks someone will pay or makes the dog seem rare just by saying so. She has curly genetic's in her lines too. I wish she showed the bitches and dogs she has I wounder how many breeding Havanese she has? So the moral of the story is just because one shows dogs it doesn't mean they are good breeders and have the best interest for our precious Havanese.


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## lfung5

Good that you posted. I almost feel there should be a section on the forum, pointing out questionable breeders. We can not stop these bad breeders, but at least we can make people stop and look a little harder at some of these people. Maybe it would slow down their sales and put them out of business..... We are only pointing out what's there for everyone to see. It's just that some people don't know what to look for.


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## lfung5

Suzi,
I don't see anything that says she shows her dogs. Maybe I didn't look that hard. I think the studs she uses are show, but that doesn't mean she owns the studs. The person who owns the studs, should not be breeding with her.....!


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## lfung5

I just checked out her site again. She only says she shows and health tests, but there is not proof of it. There are a lot of people who lie......She is not on the OFFA site


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## Pixiesmom

I wonder why they don't show the sires/dams that are the highest champion show dogs in the nation.


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## dodrop82

Yeah, good question Beth....I think we probably know why...


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## Tia

Wow what an eye opener.....

Buy now before someone beats you to it!!! 
Crazy prices that I can't make sense of. When I was looking the prices were the same for all pups in the litter...
She is charging a lot too, ok if you were buying from a breeder who is reputable but people might think that because the pricing is what they would expect to pay that they are buying quality.
"persistent perfection" 
"DNA studies to create impeccable Havanese dogs"
Wow these must be the most amazing dogs in the world!

I hate how it sounds so mechanical... your not *creating* puppies!!


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## windym300

I know, I guess the website really speaks for its self. I'm really not sure why she talks about the DNA tests. I heard that she had to test them to make sure who the father was because she couldn't keep up with it. She does have one GCH male but he isn't that young and of course she wasn't the one that showed him. I'm not sure if she has any other CH dogs. Like I said she had lots of dogs but she is not currently showing them. I hope people can educate themselves with this example. It would be interesting if or what proof she could actually come up with. What's sad is she has a family member and the family member's spouse that are vets. So a lot of things she can put off on them and sound credible. I really have no ill will towards this lady she was really nice to me and she wasn't mean to the dogs accept in my eyes keeping them in the electric fence. She may have a different fence set up now. I'm just disgusted at what she is doing to this breed I love so much. It's funny one of the big red flags for a not so great breeder is advertising in major newspapers, and that is where I saw her ad and website. It's just sad that the general public doesn't know this!

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## Suzi

Tia said:


> Wow what an eye opener.....
> 
> Buy now before someone beats you to it!!!
> Crazy prices that I can't make sense of. When I was looking the prices were the same for all pups in the litter...
> She is charging a lot too, ok if you were buying from a breeder who is reputable but people might think that because the pricing is what they would expect to pay that they are buying quality.
> "persistent perfection"
> "DNA studies to create impeccable Havanese dogs"
> Wow these must be the most amazing dogs in the world!
> 
> I hate how it sounds so mechanical... your not *creating* puppies!!


 I love black Havanese they don't show the dirtound: I would pay more for that not lessound: And I really think the one she says is so rare will be all cream very fast. Poor little Havies.


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## Suzi

windym300 said:


> I know, I guess the website really speaks for its self. I'm really not sure why she talks about the DNA tests. I heard that she had to test them to make sure who the father was because she couldn't keep up with it. She does have one GCH male but he isn't that young and of course she wasn't the one that showed him. I'm not sure if she has any other CH dogs. Like I said she had lots of dogs but she is not currently showing them. I hope people can educate themselves with this example. It would be interesting if or what proof she could actually come up with. What's sad is she has a family member and the family member's spouse that are vets. So a lot of things she can put off on them and sound credible. I really have no ill will towards this lady she was really nice to me and she wasn't mean to the dogs accept in my eyes keeping them in the electric fence. She may have a different fence set up now. I'm just disgusted at what she is doing to this breed I love so much. It's funny one of the big red flags for a not so great breeder is advertising in major newspapers, and that is where I saw her ad and website. It's just sad that the general public doesn't know this!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


 I hope the dogs are not out side all the time.


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## Coco's locos

*Why can you mention the website?*

I'm sorry, maybe I'm too new in all these, but I think is very important to help prevent others from breeders that are not doing the right thing...
... Also I'm extra curious, if you don't feel comfortable publishing the web here, could you send it to me by pm?

Thanks!


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## StarrLhasa

Coco's locos - she did give the website address at the very end of post#21 (it just doesn't stand out).


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## Coco's locos

StarrLhasa said:


> Coco's locos - she did give the website address at the very end of post#21 (it just doesn't stand out).


Thank you!!!


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## Becky Chittenden

she's currently having a pro handler showing her dogs


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