# My Havy's groomer wants me to use an Andis Premium DeShedding Tool?



## bmshoaf (Dec 9, 2015)

I have a mobile groomer bathe and groom Bailey, our Havanese, every two weeks. I brush and comb her nearly every day. Yet, my groomer constantly complains if Bailey has even one mat. Now the groomer wants me to purchase an Andis Premium DeShedding Tool. I told her that I wasn't sure it was a good idea. Then she told me that she uses it on Bailey and the mats come out without pulling or hurting.

Have any of you ever used a deshedding tool on your doggie? It just doesn't sound appropriate, but thought I would check with you experts.

Thank you, Barbara and Bailey


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## RonniB (Jan 21, 2016)

Melo gets a groomed by a mobile groomer as well just not as frequently as Bailey. I purchased a specific comb that was recommended by all the experts here on the forum - Chris Christensen - Buttercomb Long Toothed Comb, Fine/Coarse, #005. It doesn't tear the coat.I also use a spray conditioner and detangler before coming him out.


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## NickieTwo (Jun 17, 2013)

Looks like a mat breaker to me. No, I wouldn't use that. Sharp and can hurt both the dog and the coat. Nickie, who is now three, is also bathed and brushed by a groomer every two weeks. (It simply works better for me.) In between I do almost daily combing and am careful to catch any fledgling mats early. When he was a pup the combing was always daily. My only tools are a full sized dog comb, a smaller dog comb that I use for face, ears, etc., and a small pin type brush that I use sparingly.


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## boomana (Jul 9, 2015)

Get a new groomer.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I just checked out the Andis DeShedding tool and don't think it is a good idea. When I was having difficulty controlling mats I asked Scout and Truffles groomer about this type of tool. The groomer said it wasn't appropriate for the Havanese coat, but I can't remember why. I think she called it a rake and it cuts the coat? She's coming this week so I will ask. I always watch my two being groomed and she only uses a slicker and a CC buttercomb. I never get every little mat, but I am improving! 😊


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

boomana said:


> Get a new groomer.


Ha!

I agree that a deshedding tool is absolutely the WRONG tool for every day Havanese grooming, though I did use one once in a while on a tough mat when Kodi was blowing coat. If the groomer is using it more than OCCASIONALLY on Bailey's coat, she will destroy his coat. A demoting blade cuts right through the hair.

OTOH, it's unfair to both dog and groomer to present the groomer with a matted dog. Whenever I've used a groomer, I've made DARNED sure there were NO mats in my dogs' coats before handing them to the groomer. If you can't do that, it could be that a shorter cut would work better for you.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

krandall said:


> Ha!
> 
> I agree that a deshedding tool is absolutely the WRONG tool for every day Havanese grooming, though I did use one once in a while on a tough mat when Kodi was blowing coat. If the groomer is using it more than OCCASIONALLY on Bailey's coat, she will destroy his coat. A demoting blade cuts right through the hair.
> 
> OTOH, it's unfair to both dog and groomer to present the groomer with a matted dog. Whenever I've used a groomer, I've made DARNED sure there were NO mats in my dogs' coats before handing them to the groomer. If you can't do that, it could be that a shorter cut would work better for you.


It has taken me a few years and a lot of practice to get the skill of getting better at keeping mats away. There have been many times when the groomer hasn't been very happy with me. Grateful she is so patient! My first havanese would come back from the groomers shaved and now I understand why. I asked the groomer if a shorter coat might not mat as much. She mentioned that the new hairs growing entangle with the old and can cause mats to develop at the skin level. Even if the coat was shorter mats would develop unless it was combed completely to the skin level daily. I try my best... Now I get graded and so far I'm at a B+!


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## bmshoaf (Dec 9, 2015)

I use the Chris Christensen comb and brush suggested by this forum. Thought the deshedding tool was inappropriate for Bailey. It is what I used on my collie occasionally. Just found out today that the groomer has been using the deshedding tool on Bailey for every grooming. Wondered why her coat stays so short and thin. Now, I know. 

Thanks to all of you for your advice and wisdom.

Barbara


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## bmshoaf (Dec 9, 2015)

Heather--Sounds very logical. Puppy cuts can't change hair texture just like cutting people's hair doesn't change their hair. 

Bailey is handed over to the groomer mat free nearly every time, but the groomer loves to complain about Bailey's fur. Keep in mind, the same groomer does my sheltie and never says a word. The thing that bugs me more than anything is that no groomer in their right mind would suggest shaving a collie, springer spaniel, sheltie, golden retriever, lab, etc., and if they did they would be dismissed on the spot. I wish that I had never heard the words--puppy cut!

Whew--feel better now after this rant!

Love my Bailey just the beautiful way she is.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Bailey coats look very soft and fluffy! I have had this discussion of matting with the groomer too many times! I could never replace the groomer we have. If theres a mat she does everything possible to break it up. If it is one of those little impossible mats next to the skin she scissors out.


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Just going to insert my opinion here. If our groomer consistently complained about the state of our dogs' coats, we would walk the other way. While I would never bring one of them in with multiple mats to the skin, I think it's unprofessional for them to protest even if you do. Looking at Bailey and based off what you are saying, that doesn't seem to be the case. Groomers are paid to groom, not complain. If we need a stubborn mat removed at grooming time, our groomer works it out gently and properly, and we too extra. Never once heard a complaint, and I don't expect to.

The full Hav coat is quite a beast, and many groomers will just use whatever the heck they can to rid it of tangles. If you can, find a groomer that specializes in or is at least knowledgeable about dogs with long double coats. Ours owns a Neezer and a Shih Tzu, and she keeps the Hav in a full coat, so we know we are in good hands. Ask around at local shops.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Bailey is absolutely gorgeous! How much work is it to keep his hair like that? Sophie would be a mess in minutes lol!

Heather I'm surprised to hear what your groomer says about the mats. When Sophie had her full coat I was cutting mats out every day and brushing/combing to the skin at least once if not twice a day. Since her puppy cut several weeks ago, there has not been one mat and I only brush her maybe once a week if that. Her coat is fairly long now, probably about 3 inches or so and I did find a small mat in her armpit yesterday but she hadn't been brushed in over a week since she was in the hospital and and that mat was more towards the end of her hair, not at skin level. She had a few little areas where the comb hung up slightly as I brushed her out but overall there was no problem at all. It has literally saved me hours a day in grooming time.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

KarMar I have not heard that term Neezer love it LOL!!!!


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Dee Dee said:


> KarMar I have not heard that term Neezer love it LOL!!!!


Hehe I'm not gonna lie, I heard it for the first time this weekend and had to start using it myself. Something about it just suits our little clowns


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Haha! It fits them!
My cousin can't get Sophie's breed straight and tells people she is a HaBernese.  Add a little tan and she might look extremely remotely like one lol! She can't get it right even though I've corrected her many times so I just let her say it. LOL


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## articshark (Apr 4, 2016)

Dee Dee said:


> My cousin can't get Sophie's breed straight and tells people she is a HaBernese.  Add a little tan and she might look extremely remotely like one lol!


I think Java looks like the sheepdog on Wiley Coyote with her hair not quite long and not quite short as it falls over her eyes. A little miniature cartoon sheepdog.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Dee Dee said:


> Bailey is absolutely gorgeous! How much work is it to keep his hair like that? Sophie would be a mess in minutes lol!
> 
> Heather I'm surprised to hear what your groomer says about the mats. When Sophie had her full coat I was cutting mats out every day and brushing/combing to the skin at least once if not twice a day. Since her puppy cut several weeks ago, there has not been one mat and I only brush her maybe once a week if that. Her coat is fairly long now, probably about 3 inches or so and I did find a small mat in her armpit yesterday but she hadn't been brushed in over a week since she was in the hospital and and that mat was more towards the end of her hair, not at skin level. She had a few little areas where the comb hung up slightly as I brushed her out but overall there was no problem at all. It has literally saved me hours a day in grooming time.


I think what she is saying is that if the coat is long or short it still needs to be combed to the skin daily or there will be mats. Sparky's coat was alway in a puppy cut and it would mat because I didn't know how to care for it. I agree if the coat is shorter it is easier to comb through, but it stills needs combing. Seems like there are all different texture of coats requiring different care. I wish I only had to brush and comb a few times a week!  My two definitely need a comb through daily or it would be too hard on them and me!


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

That makes sense! 

I thought Sophie's coat was extra hard to maintain long but it does seem much easier shorter. Maybe this winter I'll find it mats much faster when she's getting wet all the time. 

Dawn, Java does look like that cartoon dog you are right lol!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Dee Dee said:


> Bailey is absolutely gorgeous! How much work is it to keep his hair like that? Sophie would be a mess in minutes lol!
> 
> Heather I'm surprised to hear what your groomer says about the mats. When Sophie had her full coat I was cutting mats out every day and brushing/combing to the skin at least once if not twice a day. Since her puppy cut several weeks ago, there has not been one mat and I only brush her maybe once a week if that. Her coat is fairly long now, probably about 3 inches or so and I did find a small mat in her armpit yesterday but she hadn't been brushed in over a week since she was in the hospital and and that mat was more towards the end of her hair, not at skin level. She had a few little areas where the comb hung up slightly as I brushed her out but overall there was no problem at all. It has literally saved me hours a day in grooming time.


I find the same thing, DeeDee. Pixel was matting quite a bit before I cut her down, and she can go many days between groomings without developing mats. Now, picking up plant debris is another thing. She's a living Chia Pet!


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Ha! Chi-chi-chi-CHI-a is now going to be in my head all day. I can see Pixel with a boxhedge bush growing out of her coat! 

They both have the same coat texture so it's interesting Pixel and Sophie have easier to maintain coats trimmed. Sophie does pick up some debris but since it's way less than when her coat was long it softens the blow.  How long is Pixels coat right now? I love the length of Sophies very havanese-esque without the grooming. Her face is super cute right now too. So I need to learn to trim her face so I can do it just a tiny bit every couple of weeks or so and keep it where I like it rather than having to let it really grow out to justify going to the groomer.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Dee Dee said:


> Ha! Chi-chi-chi-CHI-a is now going to be in my head all day. I can see Pixel with a boxhedge bush growing out of her coat!
> 
> They both have the same coat texture so it's interesting Pixel and Sophie have easier to maintain coats trimmed. Sophie does pick up some debris but since it's way less than when her coat was long it softens the blow.  How long is Pixels coat right now? I love the length of Sophies very havanese-esque without the grooming. Her face is super cute right now too. So I need to learn to trim her face so I can do it just a tiny bit every couple of weeks or so and keep it where I like it rather than having to let it really grow out to justify going to the groomer.


I'd love to know Sophie's pedigree... They look SO much alike, and some of their "look" is not "typical Havanese" (their long legs! ) I wonder if they have ancestors in common.

Pixel's is DEFINITELY easier to keep debris-free now that it is short. Right now, it is TOO short, looks wise, IMO, but it was great on our camping trip, when I had the other two coats to deal with. I used the longest blade guard you can get, and clipped with the hair, and it's still no more than 1 1/2" long. (of course, it may be a technique issue, since it was my very first time doing it with the clippers!) I really liked what I did with scissors the first time better, but it took a LONG time.

I REALLY liked the way she LOOKED best just before I clipped her again. She was very fluffy, but still clearly not full coat. But it was starting to mat again at that length. Between that and the camping trip, and lack of time, I just used the clippers. I think I'm going to let it grow out to about where it was before, then try scissoring it, somewhere between where I cut her the first time, and the grown-out length. I just checked, and I first scissored her at the end of Feb., and then clipped her May 11. So I got about 10 weeks out of the first cut. (I did trim up her face a bit sometime in the middle) Since she's shorter this time, I think it will go a little longer.

I DO think, at least with her, she's cuter in the puppy cut. She's so little, and fine that when I look back, she just looked smothered in a long coat. She looks like a little "pixie" Pixel in her short coat!


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## boomana (Jul 9, 2015)

Bailey does have quite the coat. She's beautiful, but I can see how someone else might wish for less work maintaining it. Still, I think it should be a groomer's job to know how to work with the coats they're grooming. I do think it's unprofessional to complain about the stray mat here or there, and really not professional to use a de-shedder or bother to know it shouldn't be used.

I got lucky with my groomer. My neighbor/dog sitter had a show maltese, and takes my dogs to her groomer, and who has also been grooming for 30 years. Compared to the work involved with the show dogs she does, mine are a breeze. I know she plans on retiring soon, then I'm going to get concerned. I can probably handle Lola by myself, but although I keep Watson in a longish coat, it is trimmed, and I'm not prepared to do it.

I've been thinking about trimming Lola. She's such a patchwork quilt of colors right now, she looks really bizarre. I'm tempted, but hesitant.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Karen here is her Dad, Stinky (who she gets her personality from and I belive her head also)

STINKY'S HOME PAGE

and Mom Paris

PARIS' HOME PAGE

links Pedigree and Health records on both on page

would be interested to know if these girls could be related


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Dee Dee said:


> Karen here is her Dad, Stinky (who she gets her personality from and I belive her head also)
> 
> STINKY'S HOME PAGE
> 
> ...


Don't know about Pixel, but she's related to both of ours! Her great grandsire on both her dam's side and her sire's side is a full sibling of Mario's dam (and Nino's granddam's sire), and Nino's grandsire is in her pedigree a few times.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Dee Dee said:


> Karen here is her Dad, Stinky (who she gets her personality from and I belive her head also)
> 
> STINKY'S HOME PAGE
> 
> ...


Here is Stinky's page on Havanese Gallery:
BG's Viburnum V. Carlcephalum - Havanese Gallery

Here is Paris' page on Havanese Gallery:
BG'S ZANTEDESCHIA 'PARIS' - Havanese Gallery

Click on "Pedigree" in the yellow bar for 5 generations back:
http://www.havanesegallery.hu/pedigree_en.php?id=22926
http://www.havanesegallery.hu/pedigree_en.php?id=35180


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Dee Dee said:


> Karen here is her Dad, Stinky (who she gets her personality from and I belive her head also)
> 
> STINKY'S HOME PAGE
> 
> ...


Well, I had to go back a LONG way to find any breeder's names in common, let alone ancestors. So I'm stickin' by my theory that they are sisters, lost at birth.


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