# HELP puppy not interested in potty training



## ttutah3

I have a male havanese that is close to 5 months now. We are still REALLy struggling with potty training. He seems perfectly content to go on the carpet. I keep a very close watch on him, so I know his cues. I also take him out every 20-30 minutes. it seems if he cannot even hold it that long as he usually has an accident within that time period. He makes it about 6 hours at night, but if you do not get to him ASAP (within 1 min) he wets his bedding in hiis crate. He is very stubborn and head strong, so when I notice "potty cues" and try to get him to go outside he runs away from me. I think it is a game of some sort (-: Sometimes i try to bribe him with a treat, but even that does not work. He seems bound and determined to go in the house. He knows that outside is where he is to go, except when I am away-which is very seldom. We use pee pads in his x-pen when we are gone, and he uses them at times. He has been known to pee in his bed though. I have tried pee pads by the door, but he is known to pee right next to them. I am at my wits end at what to do. I am thinking about a litter box, but I figure he will just pee next to that as well. We also did crate training in the beginning, but he hates his crate unless it is bed time. He is very high energy and dos not sleep musch, so laying in the crate seems to be depressing for him.

Any suggestions??????:brick:


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## dbeech

I know Dave has posted this link before and I have found it extremely helpful. The basic premise is that unless your pup has recently done his business, he has to be confined.

At 5 months, your pup will only be able to hold it about 5 hours at night.

The time and energy you invest now in housetraining will pay off throughout your dog's life.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/errorless-housetraining


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## Ellie NY

I'll leave potty training advice to others but I did want to jump in to offer some hope. What I've learned about Havs and potty training, both through this forum and from my own puppy, is that they are very difficult to potty train. I experienced much the same thing as you have and was on this forum begging for help. I think the reality is that around 6 months they just kind of "get it". Maybe their brains or bladders mature, I don't know. By 7 months you should notice a marked difference. By 8 and 9 months they should be pretty reliable. Eli is 9 months and he's doing amazing. We can leave him for 5-6 hours with no worries. Hang in there - it will get easier soon.


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## MaggieMay

I also agree with Ellie, Maggie wasn't quite as bad as you describe at 5 months, but she was tough, I was very consistent though, keeping her in small spaces and crating her when I went out. I hated doing it too. I would just try and take her for a good walk before crating her so she would be tired. When he does go outside praise the heck out of him and give him a treat immediately. When he goes inside don't say anything no reaction unless of course you catch him in the act and just matter of factly take him outside and say potty outside. I promise you if you stay on top of it you will have a potty trained dog!!!  Good luck


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## ttutah3

i have decided that we are going back to a strict crating schedule. It is better than the alternative of getting mad all the time or all of our carpets being soiled. Part of the problem is trying to be organized about it as I am not always great at follow thru. I decided tonight that I, and all of my family members need to stict to our guns on this. My husband travels a ton and I have three little ones under 11, so much of the burden will fall on me. I instructed my children that only mom or dad can let him out of the crate. I can trust my 11 year old to help as she is very responsible, but my 5 and 8 yr old will just let him run free if he is let out.

Do you think I should remove all bedding from his crate and x-pen? He often pees on it, even if it has been only 20 minutes since he was last let out. 

Finally, 2 x per week I work for 4 hrs outside of the home. I put him in a larger x pen with his bed, food, water, toys and a pee pad. Most times he will use the pad, but he is also known to get lazy and just pee in the bed. I am going to remove the bed next week and see if that will help. The xpen is on tile and he has never peed or pooped on tile, so I think that will help. Oh how I wish my entire house was tile or hardwood. He seems to like carpet!!!


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## MaggieMay

THat sounds like the right thing to do. I am no expert, but the trainer who did my pup kindergarten class said to get rid of all the pee pads, too confusing, your puppy may think all things that are soft and paddy are places to pee. She then had me shrink my crate with the divider to just enough room for them to sleep and turn around. It really seemed cruel to me at the time but it worked. THen also, any time he can't be watched (like a toddler near a swimming pool, she related it to) he must be crated. It was crazy and I also have 2 kids a 6 and a 10 year old with a husband who travels alot. It all fell on me. The trainer also told me to set my alarm for the middle of the night (take the last time puppy went out to pee then add 5 hours, especially since you said he can barely make 6 hours). Take him out let him pee, give him a treat praise like crazy then put back in crate until it's time to wake up. Little by little move the time up in the middle of the night until you get to desired wake up time. It was like having a newborn, I was getting up at 3 am to take her out. It really worked though. I can now leave my dog out in the whole house at 7 months old when I go out with no accidents for hours at a time. Hang in there I promise it will work. 
Also, I used poochie bells, I love them. They have a website poochie bells.com. Every time i took Maggie out I took her paw rang the bells and said "go potty" several times. And then outside I say a million times go potty go potty etc etc. And when she did go I made such a big deal out of it with a treat and all. (Do it as soon as they start squatting saying good boy, so they know exactly what you are praising). I am a first time puppy owner too so I hope I am giving good advice, I just know it really worked for me. Good luck again.


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## MaggieMay

Btw, for the time being I would forget putting him in an expen while you are working 4 hours 2x per week and just put him in that tiny crate with the seperator. I know it seems mean, but it is just for short term till he gets it. Before you know it you can leave him in the whole house. Just my opinion, I of course am no expert.


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## Tom King

He still at the "habit" age. They don't use reasoning on pottying for a long time. At least the first year is all about establishing good habits. If they have bad habits, it takes MUCH longer to reteach good ones. Just forget all about him needing to figure it out for now. You have to pick a method and go back to its beginning. You can never not pay attention. He doesn't get put on pause when the phone rings.


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## marlowe'sgirl

What helped me was thinking of the crate like a decked out bedroom - with a comfy bed, flat screen tv, a computer, xbox, etc, but instead it has a bed, a kong, a bully stick, a squeak toy, etc. I always gave my guy a special "crate" treat when he went inside. It got to where I pulled out box of treats and he'd go running into the crate. Done right the crate should be their safe place - a comfy haven. A place they can take a nap undisturbed or hide from the comb (as mine still does today).

What worked for me was a strict schedule and crating every time I couldn't watch him = this included being distracted while cooking dinner. At this age, an accident is your fault for not watching - not the puppy's for "not getting it." 

I let my guy out at wake-up, breakfast, around noon, evening, after dinner, and immediately before bed. Plus, I did/still do a long walk once a day - around an hr (about 3 miles). Initially for potty training, I let my guy out for 15 mins. This should be different than a walk outside or play outside. Go out a different door, use a different leash - something. During this 15 mins, I basically ignored my little guy (don't play with him). If he doesn't pee, I put him in the crate for 45 mins and try again on the next hour, repeating as many times as necessary. If he did go, I'd give him a special treat he only got for going potty, lots and lots of praise, and then a dedicated 30 mins of superfun playtime/basic obedience (that's a game for them). After the first day, he always went during the first 15 mins.

Like Tom said, it is not so much about him 'getting it' but about you establishing habits for him, so that his only option is going pee outside where you want him. And yes, do leave him in the crate when you are gone for 4 hrs. The expen is too much space at this point. Also, you might think about limited his water access after a certain point in the evening, so he doesn't go to bed with a full bladder. But the rule of thumb is a puppy can hold his bladder an hr plus 1 for every month (so a 5 month Hav - that's 6 hrs).

My guy definitely spent most of his first few weeks in the crate. But at 7 months, I started doing trials of 1 hr outside the crate while I was running an errand. By the end of that month, I got to where I rarely crated him at all. Now my 14 month old puppy has full range of our downstairs and is perfect - as long as I don't leave paper where he can access it and shred it (but that's a different issue).


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## toto3d

I'm not sure if I missed it in your initial post, but do you reward him with a treat when he does it correctly? We knew boiled chicken was Chester's absolute favorite treat so every time he went on the pee pad we gave him high praise and a piece of chicken.

So along with your rededication to crate training, I would also give him some sort of reward when he does go outside.

Good luck! As someone who once doubted the existence of alight at the end of the house training tunnel, I'm happy to say that I was wrong


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## The Laughing Magpie

Potty training is serious business, there are no short cuts!!!!! Just like real children you need to establish good habits. But dogs are not human and they do not reason. Even when you have breeders today helping by introducing litter boxes and litter pads, you still need to do the work!!!! The only thing that makes it seem harder to potty train a smaller breed is the size of their bladder and its growth rate. Larger breed dogs have a larger bladder and at a younger age can hold it longer. I think sometimes we expect too much too soon. Establishing a routine and taking the time and doing it the right way will be an investment for the future of your pet.


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## ttutah3

thanks for all of the awesome advice. I have heard some people that think 4 hrs in a crate is too long for a havanese when you are gone? Not sure why, but just thought I would throw that out there.


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## krandall

ttutah3 said:


> thanks for all of the awesome advice. I have heard some people that think 4 hrs in a crate is too long for a havanese when you are gone? Not sure why, but just thought I would throw that out there.


Kodi is always in his x-pen/crate arrangement whenever we leave the house. Quite honestly, no matter how long we're out, I have NEVER found him anywhere but in his crate when we get back, even though he his access to the x-pen too. He just LIKES it there.

Dogs sleep a LOT of the day away anyway.


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## Thumper

Tom King's posts on potty training really helped me out a ton, and you aren't alone, they can take awhile to get into the swing of things.

Also, hanging bells by the door REALLY helped ALOT for us, because she wouldn't notify us by barking like a normal dog, her cues were sniffing the carpet, lol..Once I taught her to ring the bell, she became more interested in peeing outside because she figured out how to notify me.

Is there a special potty outside only treat/praise? That might help. Something really yummy, jerky or chicken..that they ONLY get when they go outside? 

Buy a ribbon and some bells at Michaels and tie it to the doorknob you use to go outside (and take it with you if you go on vacation or stay with family, etc)

Kara


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## Suzi

Maddie started peeing in her crate at about 5mo she could not last more than three hours or she would hear my car and get to excited? It bothered me to the point that I stopped using the crate. I then set up a area in my kitchen/dinning area with a x pin . She then learned to climb over the x pin. I have come close several time buying a larger wire crate. 
I am having potty training issues too. Zoey is about 41/2 mo and maddie about 71/2 mo . We have about 2 accidents a day and it is Zoey doing it . It is because I do not spend enough time out side with her. They both go to the door and ask to go outside but zoey I think forgets or just doesn't like all the rain. 
I learned a trick that has really helped in training. When I *catch* them doing something that I do not like I don't say a word I think the worst things in my head swear go er make a funny face . You may not even have to pretend all these awful thoughts because you are mad. I have done this while cleaning up a accident I do it when they bark. *A dog behaviorist* taught me that she says the best trainers would be people who don't talk at all A animal can sense how you are feeling.
Another thing I would do is get your carpets cleaned the pee can even go threw to the pads it is hard when they can still smell where they went I know that is my problem even tho I use a cleaner.


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## ttutah3

*thanks*

I already have the carpet guy scheduled for tomorrow... starting off on a clean slate. Our plan is to recarpet the entire house, but I do not want to do that until he is reliable. SO far so good with my new crate iniative. NO accidents in over 12 hrs... it is a record. Also, he seems much calmer...he is a fiesty one. I have to say, he NEVER sleeps during the day, so I hope he starts sleeping more when I am gone during the day. I think he has doggy ADHD

ANd yes, we do super big praises and rewards when he goes potty outside


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## Tom King

quote from Suzi: "*A dog behaviorist* taught me that she says the best trainers would be people who don't talk at all A animal can sense how you are feeling."

Another old dog training quote that is very accurate: "The less you talk, the more your dog listens." But the "talk" is not just about language that we recognize as language.

Give a command once, and then wait up to about 45 seconds. The most important part of that is the "wait". You give the wheels in their head a chance to finish turning. He/she heard you say it. The wait includes no motion, no change of facial expression, no anxiety, no change of heart rate, or respiration rate. His/her world stops turning until you get the right answer.

But next comes another most important instant. The INSTANT you get what you wanted, the pup is lavished with praise and affection. It doesn't last too long either. Quickly after the short party, move on to something fun.


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## marlowe'sgirl

Tom King said:


> But next comes another most important instant. The INSTANT you get what you wanted, the pup is lavished with praise and affection. It doesn't last too long either. Quickly after the short party, move on to something fun.


I use a clicker to try to capture this INSTANT more accurately. It worked really well for us.


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## ttutah3

*****UPDATE*****

Just thought you would all like to know that since we went to a strict crate routine, Joey is 100% accident free for 48 hrs now. WOHOO!!! It has taken a lot of persistence but it is working. We are hoping to extend his free time more next week. I am Hopeful:whoo:


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## krandall

Good news! When Kodi was a puppy, any time he had an accident, I took it as a sign that WE weren't doing a good enough job. Potty training is hard work, but it's SO worth it in the end!!!


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## Jan D

Expen and wee wee pads didn't work for Havee. It wasn't until we did a strict crate routine that he started doing well. We limited the space in his crate and gradually increased it as he grew and did better. He still sleeps in his crate at night. Stay with it, it will pay off tenfold if you set it all right now!


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## rvk5150

So we are in a similar boat with Eleanor and I have to ask for advice.

This is her second day home...so far we have had two successful sessions and five bad ones. We have her in an ex-pen (we picked up a medium crate so she could turn around and she HATED it so it went back). In the pen is her bed that she LOVES; water bowl; food bowl; a few toys; and the "litter box." 

Her breeder showed me she was trained on newspaper and the time I went to see her and then a few hours later when we went back to pick up up the minute she would get out of her pen (same size as the one we have) she would go right to the newspaper and do her business. The breeder would only say "good girl" and give her a treat.

So the litter box is just the flat plastic and we have newspaper on top...she will go to it and again we have two good trips today of which she was rewarded with a jerky treat and praised...but we had four bad poddy trips and one bad #2 in the pen when we left for about three hours. 

Going outside seems out of the question...again being how small she is (I was mistaken; she is about 4 to 4.5 lbs as we actually weighed her) she simply goes back to the door and whimpers to go back inside; she also starts shaking as if she is cold.

With respect to overnight she did not wake us up once and did not have any accidents last night....she is on the main floor while are up in our bedroom on the second floor. I woke up once about 2:30 AM and went to check on her...sleeping like a baby with the pen bone dry.

Thoughts? Did we make a mistake but not sticking to the smaller crate and giving her too much luxury with the pen? The nice thing is she LOVES it and her bed...goes in and out freely all day.


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