# Update + Questions



## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Information dump ahead. My apologies.

In three days, we will be visiting the puppies again (8 weeks, wow!) and by that point, our breeder will have temperament tested and examined conformation to determine the best fit for us. Judging by some recent pictures, I'm guessing one of two black and white males (one parti and one pied, both stunning and spunky as ever) will be placed with us, as their conformation appears to be the nicest.

I think we've decided on a name. Coming from Minnesota, we are a very big hockey family (we've had relatives play in the Olympics), so we've kept a hockey theme with pets. Mario was named after Mario Lemieux (we also liked that the name had a bit of Spanish flare). After a lot of consideration, we decided we really liked the name Gordie, after hockey great Gordie Howe. 

Now for the questions. It's been 8.5 years since we got Mario, so bringing a puppy home is a distant memory. If anyone has what they believe to be a really inclusive, good list of supplies to have before the puppy comes home, that would be highly appreciated, whether it's in link form or typed out.

Another question: I'm pretty sure our breeder trains her puppies on pee pads, but we really would prefer to use litter for our indoor option (easier clean up, not as smelly, not shred-bait). Is it easy to make the transition from pads to litter? How does one go about doing that?

Thanks in advance. This whole journey really has been a whirlwind. Just over a month ago, we weren't planning on a puppy until June, and now our little guy's coming home less than a month.

(I've been hesitant of posting pictures as we don't know which is ours yet, but I couldn't wait any longer )


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Both boys are darling and I love the name you picked.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The people I know who have switched puppies from pads to litter, have done it as soon as the puppies came home, putting them in an ex-pen folded down small enough that there is ONLY room for the litter box and a bed. They put a pee pad in the box, and sprinkle litter on top. Over time, they add more and more litter, until the puppy is happily using JUST litter. 

I have to say that I REALLY like covered litter boxes, with a grate over the litter. Otherwise, the puppies are playing with it, digging in it, eating it... I don't think Rascal Dogs are available anymore, but I have found that you can use a UgoDog tray quite easily. It doesn't hold as much litter, but it holds enough to be absorbent, and gets around all the pee pad issues.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Gordie name have Spanish flare. Gordo mean "fat one" in Espanol an Gordie is de nickname. I like bof of dem! Day kinna look lik mi! :grin2: Y not get two?

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Gordie name have Spanish flare. Gordo mean "fat one" in Espanol an Gordie is de nickname. I like bof of dem! Day kinna look lik mi! :grin2: Y not get two?
> 
> besos, Ricky Ricardo


We jokingly call Mario "Fatty" because he's all ribs and legs...we may have to re-gift that nickname to the new guy though :wink2:


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

Did you consider Ted Lindsay or Bobby Orr or Wayne Gretsky for the pup's name or are you saving them for future puppies?
How about Rocket for Maurice "The Rocket" Richard?


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Eveningpiper said:


> Did you consider Ted Lindsay or Bobby Orr or Wayne Gretsky for the pup's name or are you saving them for future puppies?
> How about Rocket for Maurice "The Rocket" Richard?


We have close family friends who have named dogs after both Gretzky and Orr. Ted is the name of family members on both sides, so that's out. I do really like Rocket, though (that fact that he played for the Canadiens makes it all the better, in my opinion) and hadn't thought of it. I'll run it by the family:smile2:


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

krandall said:


> The people I know who have switched puppies from pads to litter, have done it as soon as the puppies came home, putting them in an ex-pen folded down small enough that there is ONLY room for the litter box and a bed. They put a pee pad in the box, and sprinkle litter on top. Over time, they add more and more litter, until the puppy is happily using JUST litter.
> 
> I have to say that I REALLY like covered litter boxes, with a grate over the litter. Otherwise, the puppies are playing with it, digging in it, eating it... I don't think Rascal Dogs are available anymore, but I have found that you can use a UgoDog tray quite easily. It doesn't hold as much litter, but it holds enough to be absorbent, and gets around all the pee pad issues.


Thanks for the advice! With the UgoDog, do you find yourself to be doing a full litter change more frequently than you might be with an uncovered box (like a Puppy Go Here box)? Does the grate tend to get really nasty? Is there a type of litter pups tend to be less interested in playing with?

When using the folded down ex-pen, do you use it only when the puppy is not being supervised, or should he be in there at all times until he begins to get the hang of it?

Sorry for my cluelessness. Mario was trained on pee pads with the breeder, and we grinned and bore the odor and occasional shredding until we had him fully trained to go outdoors. For the new puppy, we'd like to have an indoor option to minimize the chances of an accident happening due to owner error, but pee pads are no fun at all.


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## boomana (Jul 9, 2015)

I love the name! My family lived down the street from Gordie Howe when I was very young, and although I have zero memory of him, apparently I was quite smitten when I was three and used to try and hang out with him.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KarMar said:


> Thanks for the advice! With the UgoDog, do you find yourself to be doing a full litter change more frequently than you might be with an uncovered box (like a Puppy Go Here box)? Does the grate tend to get really nasty? Is there a type of litter pups tend to be less interested in playing with?


I really never do a "full litter change". If you take out the wet litter daily, and pick up poops as they happen, the rest of the litter stays clean. No need to remove it. Remember, you want some LINGERING pee smell (not enough for us to smell, but enough for DOGS to smell) to stay on the litter box, so they remember that this is the appropriate place to potty.

As far as the grate is concerned, the only time it get gross is if you have a really wet poop, OR if the puppy is crazy and pounces around on it, squishing it into the grate. The first is still pretty easy to clean up if you catch it when it's still wet... It sprays out easily. I use the down stairs shower stall that is rarely used by people. If it were a frequently used shower, I'd spray it with bleach after washing it, just to kill any bacteria. Since it's hardly ever used for anything but dog rinsing or the occasional litter tray grate, I rinse it out after I use it, and it gets cleaned thoroughly, weekly. (Just like the other showers and tubs in the house)

I have to say, that if you've got a puppy that doesn't mind squishing it between their toes, you need to be creative with placement. Kodi and Pixel NEVER stepped in their poop, so it was a non-issue. In the beginning, Panda was making a MESS!!! I found that I could solve the problem by putting the litter box as far away from the area where she greeted us as possible. (In our case, it was against the outside wall) that way, when she started bouncing up and down to say "hi", it wasn't right on top of fresh poop!!!

If poop has gotten squashed into the grate, it does require using hot water and some sort of tool (an old knife or putty knife will work) to scrape it out of the squares. Then spraying it with hot water and something like Pinesol does the rest.

As far as types of litter, the ONLY thing I'd use is pine wood pellets (for horse bedding). The brand name is "Equine Pine". Tractor Supply has their own version... I suspect there are others. Wood stove pellets are PROBABLY OK, and I've used them in the past, because I do use them under grates. But there are some kinds of wood that are toxic to many animals (like black walnut) and you have no guaranty of what KIND of wood is in pellets meant to be burned.

I hate, hate, HATE commercial dog litter. It is TOO absorbent, and doesn't fall apart as it expands. When you see how much a single pellet expands when it absorbs liquid, the thought of a puppy swallowing a few of these is terrifying. In contrast, wood pellets are made to fall apart into bits of saw dust when they are damp. So if a puppy swallows a few, they will just break down and pass through.

Also, because dog litter pellets hold their shape so well, you can't tell which are peed on and which are still fresh. The result is that large amounts of ammonia can build up in the litter tray... Again, maybe not enough for our feeble noses to detect without getting down on the floor, but enough to totally turn the puppy off from wanting to use the box. That's what happened to me the only time I tried commercial dog litter. Kodi started having accidents. It wasn't until I was down on my hands and knees, sweeping up some spilled litter that I realized why!!! The smell was overwhelming, poor thing! And the litter LOOKED completely fresh.



KarMar said:


> When using the folded down ex-pen, do you use it only when the puppy is not being supervised, or should he be in there at all times until he begins to get the hang of it?


Yes, as long as the puppy is VERY closely (eyes on,) supervised, you can have them out of the pen, hopefully right after you know they've pottied. I would strongly advise that you only let them loose on an easily cleaned surface to start with, however. It's rare not to have SOME accidents! Also, as the puppy shows that they are happily and consistently using the litter box, you can start to expand the ex-pen, giving them a little more room with each expansion.

I would ALSO advise that you have a litter box easily available, and within the puppy's sight for a LONG time when they are out of the pen. If you see them sniffing or circling (in my experience, boys are easier to catch than girls, who often very suddenly squat and pee with little warning) scoop them up and put them on the litter box with a "Go potty!" cue.

Mine were all 100% from day one in the ex-pen. Pixel was 100% in a single room with a litter box from day one. Both Panda and Kodi needed more supervision, even in a single room for longer than that. Kodi had a LOT more accidents, but he was my first dog and I didn't know what I was doing. I also "felt bad" about locking him up. He still was completely reliable by about 6 months even with all my mistakes! I've done a much better job with the girls, and they've had many fewer mistakes, which means they learn faster! 

Panda is 16 weeks, and she's FINE in my office with a litter box, but is not trustworthy in the kitchen, which also has a litter box. Go figure! Every puppy is different! So for her, she has a second ex-pen set up in the kitchen. When I'm playing with them, or if I'm SURE she has just pottied, I leave her loose in the kitchen, whith the ex-pen open so she can access the litter box. If I'm not SURe she won't need to potty, or if my attention will be elsewhere (like cooking dinner) I pop her in the ex-pen. that way she can see what's going on, but she is confined with the litter box and won't make a mistake. I leave it up to Pixel whether she wants to be loose at these times, or if she wants to be in the pen to play with Panda. I'd say, it's 50/50 which she chooses! 

Oh! One more thing! I know you intend to show, and the other nice thing about the UgoDog (as opposed to a bigger litter box) is how easy it is to pack and bring along to hotels. It fits easily into a kitchen trash bag. For hotel stays, I do line it with a pee pad, and just sprinkle a quart sized baggie's worth of pellets on it for the smell. Then it's easy to tie it all up and put it in the trash before you leave. Disposing of large amounts of wet litter in a hotel room is difficult. (Of course, the poop can go right in the toilet, no matter what system you use)


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

The pictures are Soooo precious!

Good idea to get ready before the puppy arrives. Our puppy arrived earlier than expected, and needless to say I was not entirely ready when she arrived. I had neither a crate nor an ex-pen (just a bed, pee pads, and one baby gate) so I had to improvise for her bed time setup using a combination of pillows, rubbermaid containers, etc. Needless to say my puppy kept trying to escape and I got no sleep at 
all!!! :frown2: So you're definitely doing the right thing to shop early. Transitioning to a litter box early is a good idea also. The puppies are just adorable! Congratulations!


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Thanks so much for the advice and well wishes everyone! It's been almost 17 years since we were a multi-dog household, and almost 9 since we had a puppy around, so all encouragement and help is very much appreciated. 

Yet another question. I'm making a list of questions to ask our breeder when we visit Sunday. Though she's readily available via Facebook, email, and phone, it's a whole heckuva lot easier to ask the questions in person when she can show you the ropes if necessary. Aside from asking about/investigating her potty training methods, what questions do you guys recommend we ask? I want to be sure to cover all the bases beforehand as we will be bringing puppy home during a time that is not as ideal as it could be.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Our most recent addition Rex was trained to a pee pad by his breeder. We added a UGODOG with the pee pad under the grate using the manufacturer suggested transition process. We did it over a couple weeks. I then decided to switch him to wood pellets under the grid. He seemingly took to the change very easily - that lasted about 2 days. Then he started peeing on the piece of vinyl flooring under his expen close to but not on the Ugodog. I clean the Ugodog thoroughly and tried again but it was a no go. I then cleaned the expen flooring thoroughly and put a pee pad back under and on top of the grate. Rexy immediately went back to using the Ugodog so I have stuck with per pads. Rexy is transitioning to the outdoors as our other 3 only potty outdoors. I expect it will be very hard to keep the indoor option going for Rex over the coming months. Puppies sometimes have their own opinion about their preferred potty option. It was more important to me that Rex use the Ugodog consistently than that he make the switch to wood pellets. It is also more important to me that he have reliable house manners than it is that he continue the indoor option for the long run. Rexy hasn't had a potty accident outside his expen and very few in his expen with the indoor option. At 5 months he will now use his Ugodog or go to the door to be taken out when I open his expen for he and Leo to play. So far he has earned play time in the kitchen and dining/sitting room where his expen is set up. It will be several months yet before he is permitted much time loose in other rooms of the house. Freedom should be granted very slowly and VERY close supervision is critical to help your puppy develop solid house training manners. A trainer once told me that going slowly with dog training is actually must faster than moving too quickly and having to back track. Have fun with your new puppy.


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## Laurmann2000 (Sep 12, 2015)

Both puppies are cute. Love the name Gordie.


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Pucks104 said:


> Our most recent addition Rex was trained to a pee pad by his breeder. We added a UGODOG with the pee pad under the grate using the manufacturer suggested transition process. We did it over a couple weeks. I then decided to switch him to wood pellets under the grid. He seemingly took to the change very easily - that lasted about 2 days. Then he started peeing on the piece of vinyl flooring under his expen close to but not on the Ugodog. I clean the Ugodog thoroughly and tried again but it was a no go. I then cleaned the expen flooring thoroughly and put a pee pad back under and on top of the grate. Rexy immediately went back to using the Ugodog so I have stuck with per pads. Rexy is transitioning to the outdoors as our other 3 only potty outdoors. I expect it will be very hard to keep the indoor option going for Rex over the coming months. Puppies sometimes have their own opinion about their preferred potty option. It was more important to me that Rex use the Ugodog consistently than that he make the switch to wood pellets. It is also more important to me that he have reliable house manners than it is that he continue the indoor option for the long run. Rexy hasn't had a potty accident outside his expen and very few in his expen with the indoor option. At 5 months he will now use his Ugodog or go to the door to be taken out when I open his expen for he and Leo to play. So far he has earned play time in the kitchen and dining/sitting room where his expen is set up. It will be several months yet before he is permitted much time loose in other rooms of the house. Freedom should be granted very slowly and VERY close supervision is critical to help your puppy develop solid house training manners. A trainer once told me that going slowly with dog training is actually must faster than moving too quickly and having to back track. Have fun with your new puppy.


Thanks for this! I'm really hoping we are able to keep an indoor potty option for the new puppy, but like your situation shows, it really depends on the individual dog and their preferences. We switched Mario from pee pads to outdoors after shredding and odor became an issue, but I really do wish we had kept the indoor option around. After the initial transition, his only accidents happened if he was not let out before we left for the day or his signals were unnoticed, so they certainly wouldn't have happened had we kept the pads. The entire middle floor of our current house is completely hardwood and linoleum (save a gorgeous white rug that will DEFINITELY be tucked into a closet until puppy is very reliably trained), so any accidents that may happen won't be too awful when it comes to clean up. Fingers crossed, though, that he takes to the litter box nicely. We are seeing our breeder and the pups Sunday and will ask what type of indoor system she recommends.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Ask specifically that, 2-3 nights, before you bring your pup home that she have him sleep in a crate by himself separate from his litter mates. Some breeders automatically do this others don't. This should improve your chances of having a stretch of several hours at night without such an anxious noisy puppy. Sleeping separate from litter mates is a big step as is spending the first night in pup's new home. Better to have these events happen separately.


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

We want agreement on a name since it will be called through the house for the next 13+ years, and not all family members were keen on Gordie. Back to the drawing board (some familial suggestions have been Teemu and Hobey, both hockey players, of course...we'll see)



Pucks104 said:


> Ask specifically that, 2-3 nights, before you bring your pup home that she have him sleep in a crate by himself separate from his litter mates. Some breeders automatically do this others don't. This should improve your chances of having a stretch of several hours at night without such an anxious noisy puppy. Sleeping separate from litter mates is a big step as is spending the first night in pup's new home. Better to have these events happen separately.


Wonderful idea that I would not have even crossed my mind. Noisy puppies at night are no fun, and since we share a wall with another household Ialbeit soundproof), we'd like to minimize the nighttime crying. Thanks a million!


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

How about: Puck

And from my hubby (the Habs fan):
Dickie [Moore]
Henri [the pocket rocket] Richard
Gump [Worsley]


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Eveningpiper said:


> How about: Puck
> 
> And from my hubby (the Habs fan):
> Dickie [Moore]
> ...


_Love_ Gump. Can't do much better than a Habs/North Stars player :smile2: Will relay it to the rest of the fam. I think we're prepared for most everything; the naming process is proving to be the most difficult.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

If you can't come up with a hockey related name you could always switch to a Mario Brothers theme and call this one Luigi!


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Molly120213 said:


> If you can't come up with a hockey related name you could always switch to a Mario Brothers theme and call this one Luigi!


Made me LOL. We've been getting this suggestion since a few weeks before we brought Mario home. However, we already have a Louie in the house; a Luigi would be confusing to all parties involved. He was angling for the name Loki early on, but we nixed that quickly too


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

We had a *great* visit with the pups today. Our breeder had four extra Havs staying with her while their human was showing at Westminster, so it was a crazy house with 8 adult Havs, 2 senior Goldens, and 5 pups, eight weeks old. Don't know how she managed, but our breeder was lovely!

The 3 black and white ones are the ones she feels will be show quality, with 2 (the two I mentioned) exhibiting both the structure, muscle, and temperament that make a great show dog. Discussing ringcraft classes and hotel stays made it seem so much more real and exciting. The two that it looks like it will be between (one other buyer is looking for a show prospect) had tons of personality, one seeming more intelligent and the other seeming more spunky, though both had those attributes. Our breeder said those two, along with the little girl (who had been very rightfully placed in an obedience home) were catching on the fastest, so all good signs!

The pups are actually both litter and pad trained. Sheila said pads tended to be ideal for hotel stays and transport, but we might do litter and use the "port-a-potty method" Karen Randall has mentioned. I think we'll end up playing it by ear, seeing what we and puppy prefer. At 8 weeks old, they are relatively reliable. It was funny; as we were talking about how they were going in their potty training, one of the show prospects decided to give us a demonstration and galloped across the pen to the pee pad. Excellent sign!

Honestly, it's crazy to think that in just 27 days, we will have a new puppy in the house. The mix of emotions the family is feeling right now is crazy; we're all nervous but very excited!

(Pics coming as soon as Momz sends them).


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Here are the boys! The one in the first photo has a beautiful coat and is spunky spunky spunky (he could test Mario quite a bit, but hey...what are little brothers for?), but so so sweet. The one in the second and third (he was very busy chewing my finger in the second photo heh) is a little more mellow, but seemed to be more dominant during play. He's got a very wise air about him and has great shoulders. Whichever one joins our family will be so so loved (both already are, if I'm being honest).


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The second one has a Panda face.


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

krandall said:


> The second one has a Panda face.


He was the reason I had asked for early puppy photos of Panda a few weeks back. I haven't seen those markings much anywhere else, but the resemblance between the two is uncanny


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Although we can't resist another Panda face Havi, you can't go wrong with either one! :smile2:


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Molly120213 said:


> Although we can't resist another Panda face Havi, you can't go wrong with either one! :smile2:


I'll be in good company  We were saying as we were leaving "Can't we just take both?" Nothing quite like a Hav puppy.


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## Momof2pumpkins (Nov 14, 2015)

Very exciting! They are both lovely!


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Momof2pumpkins said:


> Very exciting! They are both lovely!


As is your new addition! Hope things going well with Zuzu so far


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Lovely puppies!


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Couple more photos! The 2 show prospect boys are pretty bonded to each other and were rarely more than 2 feet apart (see first photo). Should be fun to have them in the ring right around the same time


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

And we have a name! After this one was brought up a couple days ago, we got sign after sign that it was the right one. It's not my absolute favorite, but we needed one that all 4 of us agreed upon, and this one got the stamp of approval. I think it will grow on me. I'm going to try to keep it a secret until we bring our boy home (as well as which one is ours...we find out in 2 days) because I love a little pomp and circumstance. A couple hints though: we did manage to stick with at least 1 of our themes, and we are thinking the registered name will be Storm's A Brewin'. 24 days to go!


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## Laurmann2000 (Sep 12, 2015)

They're both so cute and you going to kill us with the wait. LOL Glad you have a name.


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Laurmann2000 said:


> They're both so cute and you going to kill us with the wait. LOL Glad you have a name.


The wait seems to be dragging on, but we know it will be so worth it. Can't wait to share our lil man with everyone here!


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

I've decided I'm just going to use this thread for all of my pre-puppy questions that have short answers.

Pee pads: do we need the scented ones that attract the dog, or not? I feel like I remember reading somewhere that that's either a gimmick or causes some sort of unwanted behavior.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KarMar said:


> I've decided I'm just going to use this thread for all of my pre-puppy questions that have short answers.
> 
> Pee pads: do we need the scented ones that attract the dog, or not? I feel like I remember reading somewhere that that's either a gimmick or causes some sort of unwanted behavior.


I don't like pee pads, but the couple of time we've used them (in the UgoDog, they've just been plain ones with some sort of (supposed) odor control in them. They didn't work. They still stnk, but the dogs used them just fine!


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Looks like there's a new panda-faced pup coming to the forum. We just heard from out breeder, and she told us we'll be taking home the pup called "Elf" (litter theme was Christmas movies). Hearing the reasons she chose him for us make us even more confident we're getting the right dog from the right breeder. The other show prospect is always the last to go to sleep and can be a bit of a pest, so she thought he might annoy Mario (and knowing his feelings toward puppies, she's probably right). Our guy is a bit more mellow, but still feisty. He's more food motivated and very eager to please, so she thought he would be a good fit for an inexperienced handler as he will be a bit easier to train. He's full of confidence; when we last visited, he had no problem curling up in my hands about 2 feet in the air. In just over two weeks, our guy will be home, and we couldn't be more excited (and anxious).


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

How exciting to finally know which pup you will be bringing home. Molly is very excited to have another "panda face" cutie joining us on the forum!


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