# Where is your havanese from?



## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

When I was looking for breeders, some of them told me that their Havaneses come from Hungary, Ireland, etc.
What is the difference? (besides the obvious). Don't they all originate in Cuba and should be bred to Cuban Havs as well?

There was a lady that told me the ones from Hungary are said to be mixed with the Bolonka (sp??). Another breeder said that because his come from Ireland he doesn't do health testing :suspicious: since the are VERY healthy!

What's the story behind all that? 
Tks


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Hi Zury, 

Though I'm not a breeder, my two come from diff. countries. Ricky was bred here in Quebec, Canada and Sammy in Hungary. I know there is no Bolonka in his lines at all. Though there may be a bit of Lizard with the way this little guy licks and flicks his tongue... :biggrin1: 

Not all Havs originate in Cuba. Before they got to Cuba, they were in Spain and Italy, so the European Havs most likely stem from there, as do the Cubans, then the U.S. and some Cdn. ones. Some lines in the U.S. and/or in Canada carry a lot of Hungarian Havs, others none or very few. 

I love Ireland, but I can not see how an Irish Hav would be any healthier just because it was bred there, than it's counterpart anywhere else in the world! :suspicious: That's just silly! LOL


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

marjrc said:


> Hi Zury,
> 
> Though I'm not a breeder, my two come from diff. countries. Ricky was bred here in Quebec, Canada and Sammy in Hungary. I know there is no Bolonka in his lines at all. Though there may be a bit of Lizard with the way this little guy licks and flicks his tongue... :biggrin1:
> 
> ...


Thks, 
Yeah, the guy that claims his are "Very Healthy" cause they are from Ireland is selling them at half price too! :brick:


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Tess, a puppy mill breeder, is from Hungary. 

Odds are someone selling a Hav for half price is a backyard breeder/puppy mill.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Carefulove said:


> Thks,
> Yeah, the guy that claims his are "Very Healthy" cause they are from Ireland is selling them at half price too! :brick:


Sounds like how Tiffany's works - superior quality for half price. Not!

(Please don't be offended. I'm just in one of those moods tonight.)


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Half price would scare me to death, run away! I didn't realize they came from different countries! 

Now if Tiffany's had a half price sale I'd be all over it!!!:biggrin1:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Dora my dog from a backyard breeder- her pedigree is all from Hungary too. While I think there may be some nice havs that come from hungary- I also think a lot of the puppy mill and backyard breeder stock comes from there


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## Jazzy88 (Oct 25, 2008)

My hav is from Australia... but Charlie's lines (and most lines in Australia) are from UK /Europe.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Dugan came to me from Havanese Rescue. He was originally purchased in a pet store by an older woman who never had a pet before. It did not take her long to realize she was in a bit over her head (he is a handful) When I told Brady's breeder about him, she saw his picture and said he looked like he came from Hungary. Although I am sure there are probably some wonderful breeders in Hungary, according to Brady's breeder, a lot of pet store pups come from there (which means so do puppy mill dogs). Brady's lines have been in the US for as far back as I can see.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Havtahava said:


> ...(Please don't be offended. I'm just in one of those moods tonight.)


No way, why would I? I am not the breeder!ound:

Actually, the one for half the price are from "Ireland" and no, I did not buy or will buy it from there!
The ones from hungary are from a reputable breeder. Another breeder told me that some breeders stay away from the Hungary line because they could be mixed with Bolonka (back from the begining of times), but I doubt a breeder would miss that if they were getting a Hav from Hungary for them!
After looking at pictures though, I have noticed that the Havs that come from Hungary Havs are a bit smaller than others and the hair is not as straight, Has anyone else noticed that as well or is just me?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Zury, like the Havanese in the U.S., the Havs from Hungary have a variety of looks too.


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

wow, I never even thought about this issue. I'll have to ask my breeder when we visit the pups next month.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

See Dora has straight as can be hair except where I have told others on her back legs it gets wavy if I let her air dry. But she has an amazing coat, even if it isn't correct for the standard <shhhh!>. It is my favorite out of my 3 pups as I don't have to brush it often and it is to the ground.


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## WhatsinAname (Mar 29, 2008)

Zury,
When I was looking for Cody a breeder also told me that they didn't need to be tested if they were from Ireland. The Bolonka is Russian (Russian Bolonka). I believe the same family as the Havanese but smaller. The Russian Bolonka is very rare in the US.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Carefulove said:


> After looking at pictures though, I have noticed that the Havs that come from Hungary Havs are a bit smaller than others and the hair is not as straight, Has anyone else noticed that as well or is just me?


I have heard the Hungary Havs are smaller but Tess is about 12 pounds, so not huge but not tiny either and her hair is pretty straight. Her dam & sire also have very straight hair.


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## baxterboy (Mar 17, 2009)

I am interested to hear from those of you who do have a havanese from a backyard breeder. Do you worry that your pup will have health issues later on? What can I do to be proactive.... aside from having his eyes checked yearly?

I am fairly certain Baxter is from a backyard breeder. She told me incidentally that his father was from Hungary (and it's in his papers.) Interesting. I realized she was a backyard breeder after we met---she didn't ask me any questions, was willing to let him go with me that day with no crate, no food.... I had to ask all of the "care" kind of questions (what kind of food is he on, how often does he eat, etc.) He hadn't been groomed in 7 months clearly (she said she liked the natural 'long' look...yeah, right---his belly was so matted they had to shave him when I had him groomed.) He was 7 months old when we got him, and even though I knew she was not on the up and up, our family fell in love with this little guy the moment we saw him. We were looking for an older puppy for a few reasons: My son was timid around dogs and was so afraid of puppies nipping at him. Baxter was past the nipping stage and she had said he didn't really chew on anything at all. BTW, that turned out to be true for about a month---along with the fact that he didn't eat treats.... NOW, he chews (not excessively, but we are careful not to leave the kids toys out etc.) and loves treats. Makes me think he was just never exposed to anything like treats etc. before. Anyway, when we met Baxter, he let us hold him, was so calm, gentle... I liked the idea of having an older puppy---knowing what his personality was like. We had looked extensively at rescue Havs, but couldn't find one who suited our needs (so many of them wouldn't consider us because of my 5 year old.) So there I was---had to make the decision whether or not we should take this sweet puppy home, even though I knew deep down this breeder was not on the up and up. I feel guilty about it, and am just waiting for the day when I will 'pay the price' so to speak. 

I recently found out the woman gets many of her puppies from the Amish. Ugh. They seemed like such a nice couple---religious and all.... 

So I had planned on crate training Baxter, and the woman said he was used to a crate and slept in one. Well, the first night he went crazy, went diarreah all over himself... wouldn't even stay in there with the crate in our room with me lying on the floor next to him. I called her the next day, and asked how big of a crate he was used to, and she told me 6 foot by 3 foot. Isn't that huge for a hav? Makes me think he was just crated in there all day.... although she "says" he was socialized with her grandkids. He is really good with the kids---and friendly around all people and other dogs....so maybe she did socialize him? Anyway, we gave up on crating him---he just seemed so traumatized by it. He does absolutely fine in a dog bed in our room. I like the idea of a dog bed better anyway 

She wanted $800 for him. I know, red flag. Quite honestly, we probably wouldn't have been able to afford an $1800 dog---which was the other reason we had been going the rescue route. She didn't bring up the fact that he was a "chocolate"--- even as a way to convince me to come see him on the phone (because I had originally been looking for a black and white parti when I called her.) Do you think she didn't even know enough about the breed that she didn't realize that he was actually worth more? When I asked her why she had had him so long, she didn't have a good answer (I know, I know, and I took him anyway....) sigh.... We did find out that one of his testicles hadn't descended at his pre-neutering check-up. 

What are your thoughts? If any of you ended up with a backyard breeder, did you have similar experiences? Anyone mind sharing? Thanks so much 
Joanne


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

In my mind there is a difference between a back yard breeder and a puppy mill. I would almost consider Vinny from a BY breeder even though she has a champion (he was purchased that way). She only has a couple of litters a year and they are raised in the house with the family. They are xpened when necessary but also romp around a lot. This lady is super clean and just wonderful. BUT, she is not in the show world.

On the other hand I know a well known breeder who has many champions who was breeding the heck out of one champion male. The poor thing lived in a cage for 2 years and had females thrown in with him for 2 weeks at a time. When she finally "homed" him he won't let a human catch him! It makes me sick.

Then, there are the puppy mills and that's a totally different story. They make me vomit.

Carole


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Joanne-I wouldn't worry about all the past stuff now, love and train him! Sounds like you're already doing well by just having him in a dog bed if he was too traumatized to be in a crate. Unfortunately it seems that unless you find a site similar to this forum BEFORE you get a dog you just don't really know what to look for, what to ask about or what the bad signs are! 

I have a friend whose mother bred Dauchsunds (sp?) for years but got out of it many years ago. She just purchased a Maltepoo last Friday from someone she thought was an ok breeder. Today she took the dog to the vet and it has Mange, she tried to call the breeder and the number has been disconnected. 

I'd talk to the vet about him and just be sure he's well taken care of from here on out. Maybe find a trainer to deal with any problems that may crop up. Don't beat yourself up over it though!


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Oh Ann, mange? yuk. The dog next door has mange and I am terrified mine will catch it. Their vet said his mange us not catchable but it still scares me.
Carole


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

And she brought the puppy to my friend's house today, my friend is her daughter. They have a dog too but she was downstairs as she's a big dog and they were worried about her around such a tiny puppy. Wonder if she should now treat her house in some way??? I'm so glad she didn't bring the puppy by our house to visit yet!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Weren't there some Hungarian Havs at the last Nat'l Specialty? I've seen many Havs just as small as theirs or smaller, so I think you'll get as many varieties in their Havs as North American Havanese. I wouldn't want to generalize as I really don't know the facts about Havs from abroad. Sammy is definitely not 'standard', but then so are most of the pet Havs I've seen here and in the U.S.

Joanne, I am not sure I wouldn't have done the same thing you did in that situation! You may feel it's aggravating to think you 'encouraged' a BYB, but at the same time, you got a dog that you're all in love with, is happy and adapted very nicely to your family so in the end, that's what matters. Just knowing what to avoid next time and sharing your story so others know what to look for and avoid, is great! Thank you for that.  Better to not dwell too much on doubting yourself. Not much good will come from that. Not to mention that Baxter is absolutely, stinking adorable as far as I'm concerned! eace:


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

I don't think the Havs are that much different in Europe as they are here. 
Three of my Havs are from the Czech Republic, my girls are girls, meaning they have smaller more feminine features, and my boy is very boyish and is heavier and more masculine. My other girl is from Italy/Hungary, and she is a slightly larger bitch, but we still love her just the same. And our other two are home grown


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Thank you all for the answers.
In reality, I don't care what country they come from, I will love my dog regardless of that!


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## baxterboy (Mar 17, 2009)

Joanne, I am not sure I wouldn't have done the same thing you did in that situation! You may feel it's aggravating to think you 'encouraged' a BYB, but at the same time, you got a dog that you're all in love with, is happy and adapted very nicely to your family so in the end, that's what matters. Just knowing what to avoid next time and sharing your story so others know what to look for and avoid, is great! Thank you for that.  Better to not dwell too much on doubting yourself. Not much good will come from that. Not to mention that Baxter is absolutely, stinking adorable as far as I'm concerned! eace:[/QUOTE]

Marj,
Thank you so much. You pretty much read my mind and said exactly what I needed to hear


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