# What did you pay?



## rzj386 (Jan 23, 2011)

This is really a two question post.

First how much did you end up paying for your Hav? Seems like most puppies sale for one to two grand, depending on the breeder and gender. How much can you expect to pay for an adult Hav?

Also, anyone know of a good breeder in Tennessee? Since I can't get a Hav for probably a long time, all I can do is ask questions and do research. Thanks for any answers.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

I think you can expect to pay anywhere between $1500-2500 for the puppy, but you should also consider all of the start up costs as well.


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## hutsonshouse (Oct 14, 2010)

I got a deal!  I was looking for a new pup and picked one out the breeder had that was just what I wanted - a black/white girl. She was ready for pickup at Christmas and her name was Noel - PERFECT! I was meeting the breeder at a central location and they showed up with some older dogs since she had decided she might not give up Noel  

I ended up coming home with TWO white, male dogs that were about 18 months old! I think she knew from speaking with me on the phone I could not turn them down, even though we had not discussed older dogs. I got both for $400! We love them very much and they have two totally different personalities, and I feel as though I "rescued" these dogs


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## jacqui (Aug 7, 2007)

trueblue said:


> I think you can expect to pay anywhere between $1500-2500 for the puppy, but you should also consider all of the start up costs as well.


I agree with Kim on both fronts.


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## Cristina76 (Jan 7, 2007)

I agree... I got my boy from a rescue. Well both of my dog's are rescues. I think its an awesome feeling. And it sounds like you got a Good deal on your boys..


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## rzj386 (Jan 23, 2011)

hutsonshouse said:


> I got a deal!  I was looking for a new pup and picked one out the breeder had that was just what I wanted - a black/white girl. She was ready for pickup at Christmas and her name was Noel - PERFECT! I was meeting the breeder at a central location and they showed up with some older dogs since she had decided she might not give up Noel
> 
> I ended up coming home with TWO white, male dogs that were about 18 months old! I think she knew from speaking with me on the phone I could not turn them down, even though we had not discussed older dogs. I got both for $400! We love them very much and they have two totally different personalities, and I feel as though I "rescued" these dogs


I see you live in Georgia, and I am on the GA line in TN. Do you mind sharing with me who that breeder is? That deal sounds too good to be true, I hope I luck up and find something like that.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Be aware that someone selling puppies for low prices isn't doing health testing and showing that help to ensure the health and following the standard for Havanese (both health and temperament wise) that a good breeder does. Like my daddy taught me, if something seems "too good to be true," it is. You might get lucky. You might not.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

As my breeder said to me once, it isn't always the puppy or dog that you get that is the problem, it is where they come from. I wouldn't buy a dog if I couldn't see how the parents are treated and kept. I couldn't support someone who didn't treat my dog's parents the way my dogs are treated. With that all being said, two of my havs are rescues and one came from a wonderful breeder. He was $2000 and worth every dime. His breeder is wonderful. She shows her dogs, guarantees my dog, insists upon taking him back if there is ever any problem, fully health tests her dogs, and her dogs are first and foremost her pets. She has been there for me since the day I called her. She is still the first person I turn to regarding a problem with any of my dogs (whether they are my rescues or from her). This is the kind of person I feel good giving my money to and would refer to others!


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## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

I paid $1200. I have seen other breeders around here charge anywhere from $1100 (did not have a good feeling about that one), $1400, $1600 and 2000 being the highest I have seen. I have seen older dogs for a little less.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

hutsonshouse said:


> I got a deal!  I was looking for a new pup and picked one out the breeder had that was just what I wanted - a black/white girl. She was ready for pickup at Christmas and her name was Noel - PERFECT! I was meeting the breeder at a central location and they showed up with some older dogs since she had decided she might not give up Noel
> 
> I ended up coming home with TWO white, male dogs that were about 18 months old! I think she knew from speaking with me on the phone I could not turn them down, even though we had not discussed older dogs. I got both for $400! We love them very much and they have two totally different personalities, and I feel as though I "rescued" these dogs


It sounds like you probably did more or less rescue them. Sounds like a bait and switch scam to me!


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

hutsonshouse said:


> I got a deal!  I was looking for a new pup and picked one out the breeder had that was just what I wanted - a black/white girl. She was ready for pickup at Christmas and her name was Noel - PERFECT! I was meeting the breeder at a central location and they showed up with some older dogs since she had decided she might not give up Noel
> 
> I ended up coming home with TWO white, male dogs that were about 18 months old! I think she knew from speaking with me on the phone I could not turn them down, even though we had not discussed older dogs. I got both for $400! We love them very much and they have two totally different personalities, and I feel as though I "rescued" these dogs


I would not recommend, condone, or suggest that anyone go this route. While I'm sure your pups are super cute and you love them very much, no reputable breeder would make a "play" like this.

A reputable breeder will, like Kim said, charge between $1500-2500 for a puppy, most likely somewhere around $1800-$2000. This is for a healthy puppy with health tested parents. A reputable breeder doesn't re-home older dogs very often. Usually, it will be a retired show dog that is being kept in tact for future breeding, or a retired show dog that is being fixed. Sometimes, they will have an older puppy that they were holding for show and decided against showing.

If you're not willing to pay the higher price tag, I highly recommend you look into Havanese Rescue or simply do not purchase a Havanese. It's extremely important to promote RESPONSIBLE breeding, and purchasing a puppy from BYB, mill, pet store, or otherwise not reputable source is just damaging our sweet, wonderful, loving, amazing breed!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Brady's mom said:


> As my breeder said to me once, it isn't always the puppy or dog that you get that is the problem, it is where they come from. I wouldn't buy a dog if I couldn't see how the parents are treated and kept. I couldn't support someone who didn't treat my dog's parents the way my dogs are treated. With that all being said, two of my havs are rescues and one came from a wonderful breeder. He was $2000 and worth every dime. His breeder is wonderful, she shows her dogs, they are first her pets, and she has been there for me since the day I called her. She is still the first person I turn to regarding a problem with any of my dogs (whether they are my rescues or from her). This is the kind of person I feel good giving my money to.


I agree completely. IMO, it's false economy to save a few hundred up front on an animal that will (hopefully) live 15 or more years. That "bargain" can cost you no end of heart ache and medical bills over the years.


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## hutsonshouse (Oct 14, 2010)

Karen, that is the way I look at it. My boys are great. I do not doubt they are 100% Havanese, but in hind site there were some flags that I worked through and am happy I choose to bring them home. They are happy and healthy and get along great with my grandkids, which was very important to me
The joke I tell everyone is that my husband gave them to me to keep me company since I am a night owl and he goes to bed at sundown, the problem is that they are ready for bed when he goes which still leaves me alone in the evening and having to keep quite from waking BOTH my husband and now my dogs too!!! HAHAHA
I did not go into my search looking for a bargain dog. I had a $1200-$1600 budget and should I look for another dog in the future, I would do a little different, but I think my boys will be around for a while and will be my last dogs. That is unless we move to a farm with enough room for many more


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## Cailleach (Jan 30, 2010)

rzj386 said:


> I see you live in Georgia, and I am on the GA line in TN. Do you mind sharing with me who that breeder is? That deal sounds too good to be true, I hope I luck up and find something like that.


This thread is disturbing and I'd love to hear who the breeder is also...for sure a No Name. Purchasing from someone who sells by meeting "half way" is a red flag to me. Straight up, the last thing this breed needs is people "looking for deals" and supporting less than legitimate breeders.

I have a pet peeve about crappy breeders for a number of reasons. Nobody mentioned if the dogs were registered purebreds, these are the breeders who should be supported, the good breeders with excellent reputations and not fly by night meet you in a parking lot sellers. Some may get offended however I have distain for anyone who supports anyone selling questionable dogs.

Usually you pay for what you get. Purchasing from a legitimate breeder you have a far better idea of what to expect and the breeder will back up your purchase with help if there's a problem plus the mentor factor that's invaluable. Cheap may be nice at first but what health problems might pop up that can cost way more that makes the crappy breeder buy no longer such a deal. We are talking about the breed we all claim to love. So many good breeders spent their lives dedicated to preserve and improve the breed and promote it by health testing, showing against their peers, enforcing spay and neuter contracts for pet quality dogs and doing their utmost to provide healthy, happy, quality pups with a lifetime guarantee.

It disgusts me that BYBers and millers are churning out "fake Havs"... and IMO that's exactly what you are getting if you have no papers to back up your purchases. Sure lots of people want just a pet and not a show dog and there's always a "good breeder" who will have a pet quality available. They won't be cheap and they shouldn't be because good breeders breed quality dogs and stand behind them proudly for their lifespan. This peace of mind you will never get from any other type of breeder.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I just wanted to say I know no matter how you got your dogs I can tell you love them and they will be well taken care of.
Now here is the not so good stuff. I too had a funny feeling about a breeder promising a puppy and showing up with two year and a half year old dogs And meeting some place other than the breeders home. I keep thinking they could even be stolen dogs if you did not get papers how would you know? It is all very strange it costs more than that to adopt threw a legit adoption place.
My experience was more than likely a backyard breeder. This last week we spent $300.00 on our dog for health problems next week we are going to spend a bunch more I have had to take her to the vet 2 additional time besides normal shots at about $60.00 eh and she is only 7mo old .I just found out that she will more than likely be in pain throw out her life. And will need medication to help her. In my case we have spent way over the coast of what a reputable breeder would have charged probably up into the $2,000 price range.
I'll tell ya I am so happy My girl has us and I know your two will be well taken care off too. I hope they stay happy and healthy.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

rzj386 said:


> This is really a two question post.
> 
> First how much did you end up paying for your Hav? Seems like most puppies sale for one to two grand, depending on the breeder and gender. How much can you expect to pay for an adult Hav?
> 
> Also, anyone know of a good breeder in Tennessee? Since I can't get a Hav for probably a long time, all I can do is ask questions and do research. Thanks for any answers.


:focus: We are so very glad you are doing your research for your future Hav. Lots of red flags out there telling you not to buy from certain places. We will help you out in lots of ways by providing you with important information on buying a Hav. An investment for a lifetime, one worth the money.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

hutsonshouse said:


> I got a deal!  I was looking for a new pup and picked one out the breeder had that was just what I wanted - a black/white girl. She was ready for pickup at Christmas and her name was Noel - PERFECT! I was meeting the breeder at a central location and they showed up with some older dogs since she had decided she might not give up Noel
> 
> I ended up coming home with TWO white, male dogs that were about 18 months old! I think she knew from speaking with me on the phone I could not turn them down, even though we had not discussed older dogs. I got both for $400! We love them very much and they have two totally different personalities, and I feel as though I "rescued" these dogs


Please start another thread. And, welcome to the forum! We know you will love and nourish your Havs. Please share your experience with us in another thread. Pictures would be lovely.


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## jacqui (Aug 7, 2007)

Cailleach said:


> This thread is disturbing and I'd love to hear who the breeder is also...for sure a No Name.
> 
> Usually you pay for what you get.


Deb, I'm relieved to hear you speak up. I was going to say the same thing. Caveat emptor (???) I think is the caution here.


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

I want to disagree with the meeting 1/2 way as a red flag. It is no different than the breeder flying in with the dog (at the expense of the new owner). If one lives in the North East, we know they have been hit by alot of bad weather this year. If the breeder and new owner find a mutually good travel weekend I think it is a good gesture on the part of the breeder to offer to meet half or part of the way. I have done this in the past and probably will again, even though I prefer the new owner to come to my house and visit with the puppies in a familiar setting.


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## Cailleach (Jan 30, 2010)

Becky Chittenden said:


> I want to disagree with the meeting 1/2 way as a red flag. It is no different than the breeder flying in with the dog (at the expense of the new owner). If one lives in the North East, we know they have been hit by alot of bad weather this year. If the breeder and new owner find a mutually good travel weekend I think it is a good gesture on the part of the breeder to offer to meet half or part of the way. I have done this in the past and probably will again, even though I prefer the new owner to come to my house and visit with the puppies in a familiar setting.


Becky, you are speaking of good breeders and I was referring to bad ones. Of course you are correct in your statement as you are stating a normal activity good breeders offer and you make a good point.

On topic...a relative of mine called me about 7-8 years ago wanting a Shi Tzu and I provided her with good breeders she could contact. A few weeks later she calls me and is coming over to introduce her new puppy to me. I was surprised she had found one so fast from the breeders list I had provided and was shocked to see her purchase.

The female pup was tiny but as all pups are cute as could be. The under bite was obvious but she didn't see it and the "breeder" was one from a newspaper AD she had found who traveled half way to pawn off this dog for a price tag of $400.00. Pup was only 5 weeks old but because she was in hurry (cousin) and didn't know any better she bought a very young unregistered Shi Tzu from a stranger with no knowledge of where the breeder resided. The people I recommended dogs were selling at around $2,000.00 and she thought she got a steal of a deal.

Time passed and she contacts me again seeking a reference for a male to breed her female to...I told her to spay the girl, explained that her dog wasn't breeding material due to the under bite and no breeder I knew would be interested in breeding an unregistered bitch, but she disagreed and we had a heated discussion, she was disillusioned to thinking it was a norm in the breed, which of course it isn't. Next I hear through the family grapevine that she acquired a new Shi Tzu male and puppies were expected. This male was an 18 month old unregistered boy that she paid $300.00 for that was delivered to her home. He also had an under bite and is very high in the back end, his back legs create a Z. This is what irks me...one met half way and the other delivered, so no tracing the previous owners and both cheap.

Naturally the quality of the offspring were destined genetically to be disasters but she did sell them. Of course the under bite and the bad back ends showed up in all of the offspring. Worse yet she sold the these pups for $400.00 and there were five so she made a tidy profit of $2,000.00 and repeated a second breeding before she finally spneuter them both. Small dogs are popular especially cheap ones and this is to my dismay.

A small price tag IMO should be a warning sign unless the dog is from a rescue or elsewhere that has already been altered. I don't think anyone would disagree that poor quality dogs of any breed should not be breeding but that's what some people do and it's the dogs that suffer. As previously mentioned...good breeders who do their utmost to provide healthy, happy dogs with lifetime health guarantees should be what anyone interested in acquiring a dog should be buying from be they be interested in pet or show quality. I hate it when bad breeders collect a bad representative of any breed from "breeders" who sell to naive buyers who don't know any better. If Shi Tzu was a breed I was interested in I would be really upset that under bites and bad back ends were being consider normal...equally I would be disturbed with poor quality "fake Havs" being bred. Again like I said...you get what you pay for and in my dream world there are good breeders offering both pet and show quality dogs from health tested parent with lifetime guarantees from people you can trust.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

Maybe it would be interesting to all of you! In Europe you can get top quality show Havanese for 2000 $ (champion parents, grandparents and Great grandparents..., health testing) for most reputable breeders all over the Europe. Usually the breeder will sell you dog only if you are going to show him/her. My friend is breeding bichons frisee (she has World champion sire) and she sold one boy and one girl from summer litter to people who were willing to sign contract thet they are going to show them and get the breeding licence for them. If you sign such a contract you might get super quality puppy for half price. But you have to invest in grooming and showing, which is not so cheap. 
Roki's parents are both international champions both tested for patella, cataract, heart disease and hearing. Roki's breeder is a vet and he is looking after his puppies as if they were his own kids. He managed to have completely ringworm and parasite free puppies. I paid 1000 $ for him. I am showing him, but breeder never asked me to do it. In fact he is helping me a lot during shows and he is so happy and proud when Roki gets good marks and wins prizes (we won junior Best of Breed and Junior Champion).
Marina&Roki


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## FancyNancy (Oct 7, 2009)

Breeder in Tennessee: Sandy Barnes from Mischief Havanese. I got my dog from her and he is the best!!
http://mischiefsb.ihoststudio.com/


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## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

High price does not necessarily mean quality. You have to do your homework. When I was looking, I saw alot of very expensive puppies from champion parents that were not raised in a house but in kennels. Especially some of the big breeders. I knew I wanted my puppy raised in a house, the way I would raise it.Health testing is important but doesn't guarantee your puppy's health. I would run from a bargain price, but a 2500.00 puppy is not necessarily better than a 1000.00 puppy.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I think what Becky said is important and shows us once again that lumping breeders into a supposed category for something they do that some people disagree with, is doing them and the people who would buy from them a disservice.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SOPHIES-MOM said:


> High price does not necessarily mean quality. You have to do your homework. When I was looking, I saw alot of very expensive puppies from champion parents that were not raised in a house but in kennels. Especially some of the big breeders. I knew I wanted my puppy raised in a house, the way I would raise it.Health testing is important but doesn't guarantee your puppy's health. I would run from a bargain price, but a 2500.00 puppy is not necessarily better than a 1000.00 puppy.


I don't see how it is possible for a breeder to offer puppies for $1000 if they are really doing all that they should be doing to produce quality puppies. It just plain costs too much money. I spoke to a LOT of breeders and didn't find ONE that did all the health testing, provided soaps of both adults and puppies, raised the puppies the way I wanted them raised AND showed their breeding stock to their championships (thereby increasing the likelihood that they were breeding to correct type) who sell puppies for less than $1500. Far more were in the $1800-2000 range.

That's not to say that these breeders do not, on occasion, place a puppy for less money, but there's always a reason. I talked to one breeder who was placing two puppies for a friend who was very ill. Because of the other woman's illness, she had not been able to give these two the start you would hope for. They had spent a good deal of their time crated until this breeder brought them into her home. They were older than her puppies, and considerably behind them in terms of potty training, but coming along. She was very open and honest about why these puppies were being sold for $1000, while her own, younger, puppies were $2000. (and already spoken for) As a first-time puppy buyer, I decided to give these "bargain puppies" a pass. I'm sure that they could have been potty trained and become lovely pets for someone, but I wanted the odds to be in my favor with my first puppy!

I do agree with you that the $2500 puppies are on the way high end of the price range, if you are talking about pets. When I talked to a couple of the "$2500 set" I saw no advantage or difference between their puppies and the $1800-2000 puppies. (except that they often had expensive, elaborate web sites )


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Becky, I thought all ****zu's had an underbite, no?


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

$1800 for Pixie, 2K for Mig and worth every penny.


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## Cailleach (Jan 30, 2010)

AKC lists Shih Tzu standards as this... Fault: Pink on nose, lips, or eye rims. Bite - Undershot. Jaw is broad and wide. A missing tooth or slightly misaligned teeth should not be too severely penalized. Teeth and tongue should not show when mouth is closed. Fault: Overshot bite.

It's rather confusing. Undershot and overshot, at least in horses are two different dental alignments. IMO the best would be a happy medium, a perfectly aligned bite and that's likely what they mean but as non perfect bites are common they have a tad of leeway.


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## belgrad (Jan 10, 2011)

Marina,
Do you know any such breeders in Germany?


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

A puppy and an adult are two different things and there are a whole lot of factors involved. There are some adults that are pet quality that sell for 2,000, there are some that sell for very little. With me it's not a matter of the money, it's the home and if I know a whole lot about the person. 
I sold a champion bitch at a VERY reduced price because I knew she'd be treated like the queen she is at that home and they have more than lived up to being fantastic owners. That's payment enough for me but I did have them pay a little money for her simply because I have a 'thing' about free dogs yet at the same time, I have offered a free puppy to a man I have known for years and he lost his dog that I sold him in a divorce. He could well afford the dog at triple the price as he's a doctor, but because of his circumstances and the way he always dropped by and kept in touch with me about the dog and we became friends, when he lost his in the divorce, I did offer a free puppy. 
*Don't equate the price of the dog to the quality of the dog*. I know of dogs that are selling for 3,000 that I wouldn't touch. I also know of dogs that are selling from time to time for almost nothing that would make a fantastic pet.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

FancyNancy said:


> Breeder in Tennessee: Sandy Barnes from Mischief Havanese. I got my dog from her and he is the best!!
> http://mischiefsb.ihoststudio.com/


Have you ever read any of the stories she has written about her move to Tennessee? Amazing writer and I loved each and every one. She should/could write for a profession!


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Cailleach said:


> This thread is disturbing and I'd love to hear who the breeder is also...for sure a No Name. Purchasing from someone who sells by meeting "half way" is a red flag to me. Straight up, the last thing this breed needs is people "looking for deals" and supporting less than legitimate breeders.
> 
> I have a pet peeve about crappy breeders for a number of reasons. Nobody mentioned if the dogs were registered purebreds, these are the breeders who should be supported, the good breeders with excellent reputations and not fly by night meet you in a parking lot sellers. Some may get offended however I have distain for anyone who supports anyone selling questionable dogs.
> 
> ...


Oh my....that's a lot to go into but I know of dogs with SERIOUS health issues that were sold for 2,000-2,500 from 'reputable' breeders that in no way will back the dog even though the contract states they will. Never ever equate the price of the dog with the quality of the dog....and don't expect a contract to mean a thing unless you have the money for a drawn out legal battle that might cross state lines and include travel.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

JASHavanese said:


> A puppy and an adult are two different things and there are a whole lot of factors involved. There are some adults that are pet quality that sell for 2,000, there are some that sell for very little. With me it's not a matter of the money, it's the home and if I know a whole lot about the person.
> I sold a champion bitch at a VERY reduced price because I knew she'd be treated like the queen she is at that home and they have more than lived up to being fantastic owners. That's payment enough for me but I did have them pay a little money for her simply because I have a 'thing' about free dogs yet at the same time, I have offered a free puppy to a man I have known for years and he lost his dog that I sold him in a divorce. He could well afford the dog at triple the price as he's a doctor, but because of his circumstances and the way he always dropped by and kept in touch with me about the dog and we became friends, when he lost his in the divorce, I did offer a free puppy.
> *Don't equate the price of the dog to the quality of the dog*. I know of dogs that are selling for 3,000 that I wouldn't touch. I also know of dogs that are selling from time to time for almost nothing that would make a fantastic pet.


But I think this is completely different. You are talking about placing dogs in specially approved homes with people whom you have developed a relationship with. That's not at ALL the same as someone completely unknown coming along and wanting a bargain priced puppy.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Cailleach said:


> Straight up, the last thing this breed needs is people "looking for deals" .


You guys are amazing at keeping the BYB out of here but I'll tell you that someone most of you know and she's one heck of a wonderful dog owner was looking for a low priced Hav. They ARE out there, you just have to be at the right place at the right time as it's not an everyday thing and it really helps to know someone who knows a lot of breeders because we know what they have available and why they are available. I'll also tell you that I paid ONE DOLLAR for a show quality Havanese. I had no intention of getting a puppy and was at a breeder's house. The puppy would not leave my side and always wanted me. First I said no, then I couldn't deny the connection we have so she was mine. Then again, I've paid 2500 for the same show quality Havanese.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

krandall said:


> But I think this is completely different. You are talking about placing dogs in specially approved homes with people whom you have developed a relationship with. That's not at ALL the same as someone completely unknown coming along and wanting a bargain priced puppy.


This thread seems to cover a broad spectrum to me. That's why I am speaking in it. My main thoughts are these: 
Quality and price have nothing to do with each other.
A contract isn't worth much unless you want a court battle. I've watched breeders who say they always will take the dog back....uh huh, try it and they'll brag to their friends that they got rid of another 'pest' by using tactics that are horrid mentally to the buyer.
Some of the worst dogs come from the 'nicest' people who can handle being nice for a few months.
There are awesome breeders out there that will more than go the extra mile with you. There are breeders who talk the most wonderful story and sell you a dog that will break your bank and heart.
To someone who is trying to buy a hav with no knowledge of breeders....good luck, cross your fingers, say your prayers, and wish on a penny because that's basically what it comes down to.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

rokipiki said:


> Maybe it would be interesting to all of you! In Europe you can get top quality show Havanese for 2000 $ (champion parents, grandparents and Great grandparents..., health testing) for most reputable breeders all over the Europe. Usually the breeder will sell you dog only if you are going to show him/her. My friend is breeding bichons frisee (she has World champion sire) and she sold one boy and one girl from summer litter to people who were willing to sign contract thet they are going to show them and get the breeding licence for them. If you sign such a contract you might get super quality puppy for half price. But you have to invest in grooming and showing, which is not so cheap.
> Roki's parents are both international champions both tested for patella, cataract, heart disease and hearing. Roki's breeder is a vet and he is looking after his puppies as if they were his own kids. He managed to have completely ringworm and parasite free puppies. I paid 1000 $ for him. I am showing him, but breeder never asked me to do it. In fact he is helping me a lot during shows and he is so happy and proud when Roki gets good marks and wins prizes (we won junior Best of Breed and Junior Champion).
> Marina&Roki


 Hi so do you mean that most reputable breeders will not sell their pups unless you show them? Or give you breeding rights?
Congratulations to Roki on his good marks!
My goal is to inter My Zoey in a show in March we have a lot of work to do. I have been trying to find out if I should buy a special collor and leash .


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Suzi said:


> I have been trying to find out if I should buy a special collor and leash .


Yes, a show lead. You can buy them at shows or online. 
Your local kennel club might have classes in how to show and they might have some extra show leads you could use and they're a good source of help.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

JASHavanese said:


> Yes, a show lead. You can buy them at shows or online.
> Your local kennel club might have classes in how to show and they might have some extra show leads you could use and they're a good source of help.


 Thanks I will look into getting a show lead. And I finally found a class near by she has to be 4mo so that is soon. I joined the Oregon Trail Havanese Club and have a few very nice mentors. One women is a breeder and she has a pup a mo older than Zoey so she is going to help me . I'm excited even if she does not turn out to be a champion I think it will be fun.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

This is completely OT, but Jan, it is sooo nice to see you back on the boards. :biggrin1:


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

Cailleach said:


> AKC lists Shih Tzu standards as this... Fault: Pink on nose, lips, or eye rims. Bite - Undershot. Jaw is broad and wide. A missing tooth or slightly misaligned teeth should not be too severely penalized. Teeth and tongue should not show when mouth is closed. Fault: Overshot bite.
> 
> It's rather confusing. Undershot and overshot, at least in horses are two different dental alignments. IMO the best would be a happy medium, a perfectly aligned bite and that's likely what they mean but as non perfect bites are common they have a tad of leeway.


No, they mean that the breed should be undershot and they make that pretty darn clear. A Shih Tzu shouldn't have a "happy medium perfectly aligned bite" - the teeth on the lower jaw should overlap the teeth on the upper jaw. That is "undershot". Most brachycephalic breeds call for an undershot mouth because of the shape of their skull and jaw.

An overshot bite is where the top row of teeth significantly overlap the lower row. That's why it is a fault in that breed, because it is the complete opposite of what they are looking for as the ideal. Likewise, a scissor bite (which is what Havs should have) or a level bite would be faulted in Shih Tzus.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Thank you Narwyn! I use to show Shih Tzu's way back and you are so right they do not have a scissor bite and they should be undershot, as they age they have the worse teeth very crowded!!! Also right now a show quality Shih Tzu from a excellent show breeder will cost about $1000.00 good luck in having one of these breeders sell some one they have no knowledge of. This is a breed that has been ruined by being NO#10 in the US for a long time.

As for good breeders offering dogs for less then the going rate. In the past many months I have been offered many really nice dogs. These are people I have met at obedience shows. Some of the dogs are returns or over 1 yr and they have puppies the point is; many of the dogs I have been offered (for next to nothing) have some problem. I have also been offered dogs for very little, if I will show, at this time I have no intention of doing that. If in the future in order to get the right dog I need to bring the dog to champion status I will. But, I am just as likely to take the long shot. So for now I am staying away from anyone offering a deal. That being said I take pictures for our local no kill shelter.....there are lots of nice pets and yes many are purebreds.


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## Cailleach (Jan 30, 2010)

Narwyn said:


> No, they mean that the breed should be undershot and they make that pretty darn clear. A Shih Tzu shouldn't have a "happy medium perfectly aligned bite" - the teeth on the lower jaw should overlap the teeth on the upper jaw. That is "undershot". Most brachycephalic breeds call for an undershot mouth because of the shape of their skull and jaw.
> 
> An overshot bite is where the top row of teeth significantly overlap the lower row. That's why it is a fault in that breed, because it is the complete opposite of what they are looking for as the ideal. Likewise, a scissor bite (which is what Havs should have) or a level bite would be faulted in Shih Tzus.


Thanks for clearing this up for me. I have no experience with that breed as it doesn't appeal to me although I have seen some really nice ones. My aunt years ago raised Pekanese (sp) and Pomeranians and they were all shown but I for some reason am not drawn to undershot jaws and preferred the Poms. Is there another affliction, so to speak, with Shih Tzu muzzles? My cousins male has a twisted one...I'll try and describe this for lack of proper term. The bottom jaw is straight but the top one has a curve, from below the eyes it's bent enough that there's a gap there his tongue hangs out from. I've seen a poodle like this too.

BTW enjoyed your The Fuzzy Dog...a really good read, especially Now we're cooking and your thoughts on vaccinations. I've been doing a lot of reading on both of those topics lately.


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## marlowe'sgirl (Jun 17, 2010)

Just saw the question about TN, which was where I looked for my Hav. Southern Magnolia Havanese Club is a good place to start. I ended up driving to northern alabama for my guy (http://www.hinzncohavanese.com/) and she was great. The sire was from http://www.wyhaven.com/

And yes expect to pay 1500-2500. My healthy guy has costs me about the same as my rescued, disease-ridden (but now disease-free), wonderful kitten.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Hey Jan, have I told you lately that I love you?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

JASHavanese said:


> To someone who is trying to buy a hav with no knowledge of breeders....good luck, cross your fingers, say your prayers, and wish on a penny because that's basically what it comes down to.


But that's exactly why people ask about various breeders on this BB...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

CindyDiep said:


> After researching the cost of Havanese puppies for about 2 years now, I've found that they can range from $400-$2000. Personally, I would never pay over $1000 for a puppy. So it will take a lot of research, time, and patience to find the perfect puppy at the perfect price for you. My first puppy was around $400 and with shipping, maybe about $650. I live in California and every breeder here was charging at least $1500.
> 
> Winnie, my second puppy was actually raised in a home environment and crate trained even as young as 7-8 weeks. She was $1075 with shipping. I would highly recommend this breeder because they truly put a lot of love and care into raising these puppies the right way from the very beginning. Winnie has a great temperament. She is very social, friendly, and a total sweet heart. She is very smart and was potty trained in just a few weeks after joining our family.
> 
> ...


I find it interesting that you warn about Netxtdaypets, but your breeder has a link to them on her site. Also, while there is some OFA info on the sire, I don't see any on the dam. Are all her breeding dogs fully health tested?


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I cringe to even read this post.



CindyDiep said:


> After researching the cost of Havanese puppies for about 2 years now, I've found that they can range from $400-$2000. Personally, I would never pay over $1000 for a puppy. So it will take a lot of research, time, and patience to find the perfect puppy at the perfect price for you. My first puppy was around $400 and with shipping, maybe about $650. I live in California and every breeder here was charging at least $1500.
> 
> Winnie, my second puppy was actually raised in a home environment and crate trained even as young as 7-8 weeks. She was $1075 with shipping. I would highly recommend this breeder because they truly put a lot of love and care into raising these puppies the right way from the very beginning. Winnie has a great temperament. She is very social, friendly, and a total sweet heart. She is very smart and was potty trained in just a few weeks after joining our family.
> 
> ...


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

I didn't see that she mentioned health-testing, either. Now that I know better that would be the first question I would ask a breeder.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Sheri said:


> I cringe to even read this post.


Thank you for saying something about it Sheri. I have been holding back and will continue to try to do so.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Sheri, me too! It seems that not only do BB's not realize what they are, others don't get it. Once we have a pet we love it, no question. Many people have slick add's on the internet but, they are in it for the money, don't kid yourself. They show a nice family etc., the truth is the dogs are for breeding, what do you think happens when their breeding days are over?

For people who feel they do not want to spend the going price, you can look at rescue, the dogs are wonderful and many have had their medical problems taken care of also if you are willing to wait and put your name and info in there are puppies sometimes. Also you can get in touch with breeders that show and sometimes they have retired show dogs, breeders or dogs that just didn't turn out right for showing. All these things take time and work. Supporting BB's just keeps our shelters full.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Brady's mom said:


> Thank you for saying something about it Sheri. I have been holding back and will continue to try to do so.


 I just looked up next day pets and their are 333 Baby Havanese for sale some are as low as $500.000 to $2,000 How many are puppy mills ? How many are BB how many are just folks that have no idea that they are sporting a company that lets mills advertise. I do not know whether the rating I saw was legit but the company has a 5 stare rating showed only 10 complaints. It is a good way to get a huge list of breeders to research who is a puppy mill. Or a back yard breeder


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

You can pretty much guarantee that if they are advertising with one of these big sites, they are either brokers of mill puppies or they are BYB's. No reputable breeders use these sites.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

If you can't afford the "going price" for a Hav, what makes you think you can afford a "cheap" one? Puppies who come from untested parents have a BIG chance of having some kind of health issue arise. Should that happen and your little one ends up sick like our 1st one did, just wait until you see the vet bill :jaw: Trust me, even paying up to $3000 for a pup from _fully health-tested parents_ will look like a great bargin in comparison.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

You should expect to pay 1500.00 - 2500.00 for a well bred havanese. You get what you pay for if you bargain shop. People, this is a life we are talking about, not a sweater for pete sake! Ethical breeders will health test and post the results of the OFFA website. They also show their parents and socialize the pups. They breed for the betterment of the breed. If you buy from a good breeder, you're getting a healthy, well socialized pup, that looks and acts like a havanese! Not to say that something can't go wrong with the health of that pup, but a good breeder will give you a guarantee. You have to be careful because some BYB and puppymills still charge and arm and a leg. You have to check the health tests on OFFA and see if they show their dogs. Problem with buying a 400.00 havanese is it might not even look or act like one and be unhealthy to boot. Breeders that are selling that cheap don't care about the health, look or temperament of the dog. No ethical breeder is going to sell their puppies for 400.00 because the testing and showing cost so much! Buying a pup for that price and having a puppy shipped, you can almost count on it came from a puppymill. These places are great at making their website look official and they are masters at lying. BEWARE THE CHEAP PUPPY PLEASE!!!!!!!!! I bought my guys years ago and paid 1500.00-2000.00. Lets be smart about buying a life!


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Leslie said:


> If you can't afford the "going price" for a Hav, what makes you think you can afford a "cheap" one? Puppies who come from untested parents have a BIG chance of having some kind of health issue arise. Should that happen and your little one ends up sick like our 1st one did, just wait until you see the vet bill :jaw: Trust me, even paying up to $3000 for a pup from _fully health-tested parents_ will look like a great bargin in comparison.


GREAT POINT LESLIE!!!!


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Driving halfway to place a puppy is one thing. Driving halfway and not even bringing the puppy is (IMHO) unethical! Having said that, I'm happy you are happy and that these two dogs have a happy home.

Getting the right hav really takes research and time. Most of us don't start out with that knowledge. If you are here asking before you buy then you are lucky to have a heads up, so read and listen.

You have to have trust in the breeder. Get references if you can. Look for breeders that show and are breeding not only to the standard, but to improve the breed. Ask, ask, and then ask! 

These are beating little hearts. They are a precious breed. It shouldn't be about the money, if it is then you probably shouldn't have one. Havanese are high maintenance dogs.

OK, I'll step down now........


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Carole,
You make some good points!! These are things I didn't even think of. If you are looking for a cheap havanese, you probably can't afford this breed is right! Just grooming costs alone, add up. Not to mention, vet bills, flea & tick prevention, dog food, bedding, clothes, leashes, collars, toys. Then if you are crazy like me, there's pet insurance, titers, dog sitters, car seats, dog coats & boots, grooming sprays, shampoo & conditioner, dog training classes, and high end dog food! I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Bella was my first pup. Unfortunately, she came from a bad breeder. She was still 1750.00, but was not well bred. She cost me over 4000.00 in surgeries her first 1.5 years.


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## Cristina76 (Jan 7, 2007)

*Puppy love...........*








CORKY BLONDIE GRIZZLY
I have the most lovely -precious little Havanesse girl (Blondie Girl) that actually came to me w/her 2 brothers. They were abandoned, I was told, by a breeder in Central Ca in Nov/Dec 2009 who lost their home and supposedly just left them behind to die :-(. When they were found they were 1 ½ weeks old, along with their mom, dad and two other older siblings that were from the previous litter - all havanesse. The dad and older siblings were immediately spayed/neutered and adopted out too, for a fee. After the puppies were older, the mom too was spayed and adopted out as well. I did foster them and yes I gladly paid 500.00 each for the three puppies to the rescue that saved them. I fell in love with all of them. I kept the little girl and my daughter and a friend of mine have the other two (Grizzly and Corky).As far as the cost - every dog needs love and a good home. I would not sell mine (or any of the 3 for that matter) for any amount of money. Ultimately every dog, regardless of the conditions they came from or the ignorance or greed of the breeders deserve love and to be cared for properly. If you are looking to breed your pet, then indeed a whole lot of research and commitment has to be considered. As you know, all breeding should be done to better the breed not to add to the quantity or to a pocket book. If you want a pet then I only wish you have the luck we had. My little girl has the worst under-bite, only 10 lbs - definitely nowhere near "show quality" - but she has the best personality, funny as can be, very verbal and the best best "love quality" there is. I use to breed dog's years ago but my heart and major discuss in the bad and greedy breeders took a toll. Not all breeders are that way - but the one who are make it so hard for the good ones! Please don't look the other way because of the person or the environment - look at the dog and let your gut lead the way - I have had rescues of one kind or another for the last 20 + years and have never been disappointed. I wish you a lot of luck in your hunting and I know you will absolutely be overjoyed in your special puppy to be..... Note - This response is not from "Cristina76" it is actually from her mother...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi Cristina's mom, It's so nice to hear the story of Grizzly and his "family". We, of course, know Cristina and Grizzly, (and his "brother" with the fabulous ears!!!) but have never seen the group together. They are all adorable! And I think you are absolutely right... if people want a Hav but don't have the money to buy from a good breeder, there is still a Hav out there for them. There are many like yours in rescue and shelters who need good, forever homes. 

And a $500 fee to one of these places is going to very good purpose. It helps cover the cost of the rescue work the group is doing, veterinary care, etc. It's going to a GOOD cause rather than supporting an unscrupulous breeder.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I figured that if Pam was compensated as a full time job compared to a modest income at another job, which the dogs are for her anyway, that raising the same number of puppies, which is already the maximum we can put the time in to raise like we feel best, that we would sell the puppies for $5,500.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Tom King said:


> I figured that if Pam was compensated as a full time job compared to a modest income at another job, which the dogs are for her anyway, that raising the same number of puppies, which is already the maximum we can put the time in to raise like we feel best, that we would sell the puppies for $5,500.


 She has to love what she is doing I bet its all the licks and waging tails. Not to mention breeding such healthy Pups. Good job!


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes, all those puppy kisses are great compensation!!!

Cristina's Mom - what beautiful dogs! I have pretty much decided that when I get another dog it will be a rescue. There are so many out there that need people who care.


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## hutsonshouse (Oct 14, 2010)

Kathie said:


> Yes, all those puppy kisses are great compensation!!!
> 
> Cristina's Mom - what beautiful dogs! I have pretty much decided that when I get another dog it will be a rescue. There are so many out there that need people who care.


Me too Kathie! I think after getting my older dogs and the "success" I have had working with them, that I am up to the challenge of a rescue Like you said, there are so many out there, and I really must stop looking now or I might end up with one sooner than later:whoo:


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## Corky'sMom (Feb 12, 2011)

My husband and I are the fortunate people that belong to Corky, the sibling of Blondie and Grizzly. He has no papers, and I doubt that he received a health screening, but it doesn't matter. He needed us... and now we need this imp just as much. I firmly support responsible breeding of these delightful creatures, but the less than perfect pups need a loving home too, and I'm so glad we opened ours to Corky.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Corky is absolutely adorable, and you are right that EVERY dog deserves a loving home! Welcome!


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