# Hi!



## susanwk (Jul 21, 2007)

Hi, just discovered this forum while researching info on Havanese. We'll be bringing our little Zara (a pied) home in two weeks and can hardly wait. My three daughters and I visited her last week and she is just adorable. The photos aren't that great , but I'll post them anyway. She's way cuter in real life!


----------



## Olliesmom (Sep 29, 2006)

Cuter in real life???? *Impossible - she is adorable!!*


----------



## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Awww she is a cutie! I bet you are so excited. Enjoy it, and make sure you get lots of pics!


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh Susan, she is adorable! It will be fun to hear about your adventures with Zara.


----------



## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

*Love the name!*

And what a sweet face.

Congrats and Welcome. eace:

Trish


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I like the name too and she looks like a lot of fun! I bet you can't wait!

Amanda


----------



## Sunnygirl (Jun 1, 2007)

Oooh, seeing that little cutie makes me want another one. Enjoy your puppy!


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Congrats on your new puppy coming home soon and welcome to the forum!:welcome:

She is a cutie!:baby:


----------



## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Welcome to the forum Susan and welcome to Zara as well !! What a cute face!! Bet you are having a hard time waiting for her. Once she comes home we want to see more pics!
Laurie


----------



## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

I agree...how could she get any cuter? I love her markings and I'm pretty partial to the black and white. I'm sure you can't wait to get her.

Judy


----------



## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

Welcome and congratulations! She is so incredibly sweet looking. Those last few weeks of waiting are very hard!


----------



## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Zara is just adorable. You are in for the time of your life with that little pup.
You will love the forum and find everyone very helpful.


----------



## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

My, oh my, what a cutie! Congratulations and :welcome:


----------



## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

Welcome Susan & Zara! She is a cutie pie! What made you choose that name? There is a great store called Zara that I like to shop!


----------



## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Susan and Zara! She's a sweetie!


----------



## susanwk (Jul 21, 2007)

*Thanks to all for such a warm welcome!*

I was so excited to see everyone's "welcome" and that you were all sharing my enthusiasm and excitement about Zara! This is fun. I WILL be needing help to as this is my first time training a puppy...so get ready!!! I did have a beautiful Springer Spaniel named Sam but we got him when he was already two so this is my first time doing it from the beginning. We lived overseas in Singapore for four years and due to cirucumstances beyond our control we had to leave Sam behind with another family and I have missed him terribly but know he is happy and loved...so Zara is going to fill up that void for all of us. We did get the name Zara from the store that my teenage girls loved to shop in while in Singapore. I think there are a few of them now in the States and I went in one in France this summer....but we just thought it was a cute name. Thanks!

O.k....I'll let you know how it's going once we get her here! And again, thanks so much for the welcome and well wishes!!!


----------



## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Cute pictures! Zara is a sweetie, love her markings. Welcome aboard, Susan! Don't be shy about browsing through the many threads we have in each forum here. There are tons of info on all kinds of topics since almost everyone here started the same way you will be starting.... from the ground up. 

Can't wait to get to know you and Zara better over the coming weeks!

I'm Marj, a SAHM of 3 (17, 15 and 12) and of 2 cats and 2 Havs, Ricky and Sammy who are both a year old. Life is busy around here! lol


----------



## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Susan! :welcome: 
Your Zara is really adorably supercute! :baby: You must be very excited, cause I am for you! Who's the breeder????? Hope my expected puppy will look nearly like her!!!
Maryam.


----------



## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Welcome Susan. Zara is too adorable. Love the name.


----------



## susanwk (Jul 21, 2007)

Hi Maryam,
Zara's breeder is Jeanne Roane. Her website is www.southernsilks.com. I am really impressed with her and the beautiful dogs that she is breeding. She is very particular and works hard to develop and refine her lines. Where will your baby be coming from and when do you get her?

Susan


----------



## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Hey Susan,
I'm getting my puppy hopefully around my birthday mid November, he'll be born mid September. I have a LOOONG wait ahead.  That's why I'm so excited for you! :cheer2: I'm getting my baby from Bobbi Lowry vom Bonneterre Havanese in SC, she's awesome. I'm VEEERRRYYY anxious&excited!
By the way, I'm from Berlin/Germany and we have tons of Zara's and Mango's, I use to love to shop there, but now I'm stuck in good old Greensboro, NC :usa2:
Maryam.


----------



## susanwk (Jul 21, 2007)

Maryam,
I'm excited for you too...it is hard to wait, I know, but I am sure the time will go by quicker than you think. We were just in Germany a couple of weeks ago. We love Germany, my husband expecially loves the beer and the cars!!
Anyway, I'll let you know how it's going once I get Zara. I need to go out next week and get all my "supplies" in place. 
Susan


----------



## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Susan,
I'm so jealous of you now for 2 reasons: your puppy and your recent trip to Germany!
I haven't bought anything yet, but I recommend you to read as much as you can in this forum, you can find a lot of helpful advices. Also I'm sure you can ask your breeder many questions. I found this website, that seems to have good products for low prices: http://dog.com 
I'm not sure though if anyone in this forum has tried it out and would recommend it?! *All the Pro's, Susan and I need* :help:
Maryam.
PS: please make sure you post more Zara pics ASAP, everybody here loves puppins, especially when they're so terribly cute like yours!


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Susan,
Did you do some health checking for your new puppy?I do not know your breeder,but I went to the website and it looks like she is breeding the tiny havanese puppies?There is no such thing.There is a thread on here about a lady who bought a tiny hav pup and it ended up with alot of expensive health issues.I wish I could post it here,but I don't know how to.Breeders here stand behind their puppies,and her health guarantee seems different then most.I just kinda wanted to give you a heads up because I would hate to have you get a puppy that isn't healthy...or with some serious health issues.Hopefully someone else will jump in here and explain some of this better...or perhaps knows this breeder and her website is mis-leading?


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Maryam, many of us have used dog.com and I haven't heard any complaints. Just check the shipping & handling fees before you purchase. I can't remember if theirs are high or reasonable. It has been a while since I've purchased from them.

Susan, I know you are excited about Zara, but Julie has a really good point. Make sure you verify the health testing before you sign the contract. We can help you research the results at OFFA.org. Her contract doesn't look very giving if you run into trouble, especially the 48-hour health clause. You might not want to pick her up on a Friday with that. Yikes.


----------



## marbenv (May 31, 2007)

Susan,

Please take Kimberly's advice (Julie's, too ). Kimberly is a very reputable breeder from CA and knows what she is talking about. Zara is a doll, but if you read the threads on here about health issues, you will want to err on the side of caution. I looked at that web-site when I was first researching the Havanese. I bookmarked it because I thought I wanted a very small version of the dog. Then after I read more and found this forum, I realized that could be a grave and very expensive error, so I steered clear. Smaller than normal dogs are usually unhealthy dogs. I don't mean to be negative, I know how excited you are. I just got my pup two weeks ago, but we all try to look out for each other here. Maybe someone actually knows your breeder and knows that her dogs are healthy. That would be most helpful.

Marsha


----------



## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Susan,
I share the same opinion after I read through your breeder's site. Make sure you check if the puppy parents are registered on http://offa.org, in order for you to check that, you need to know the parents name or 'CHIC' number, your breeder should be able to provide you all this info. Also ask for soaped pics to look for bowing of the parents' legs. The dogs should be health tested for the following:
- CERF (1x/year) 
- BAER (1x/life)
- Patella (at age 1)
- Hips (at age 2)
- also ideally for heart, liver and kidney diseases
Did I miss anything, Kim?!? I have never owned a dog before, but I did TONS of research and decided that I'll only get a dog from a breeder who gives us a fully refundable lifelong guarantee on our puppy, which to me is a guarantee that the breeder fully stands behind her dogs.
I'm REALLY hoping that you've already done all this questioning about the health issue and will be provided with 'written official documents'. If the breeder only tells you, their dogs have never had any health issues, you better run! Common sense says: if they never tested their dogs, how do they know?!?!?
I'm really sorry we all sound so negative, but we just want to make sure you'll get the sweet little healthy puppy you and your family should have. 
Think about it, if your breeder is not able to give you all this info, then you should let the puppy go, which will only cost you the $200 non-refundable deposit and a few tears, but it'll save you a lot more money and tears in the future.
I hope all will turn out well for you, I know ya'll are VERY excited about the dog. Again, don't let the cuteness of that little puppy blind you for possible health issues!!!
Best wishes, Maryam.


----------



## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Did Julia get Bugsy from Susan's breeder? She has a picture of Julia's Bugsy on her website! Just wonderin'....

http://www.southernsilks.com/Havanese.html


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi Susan, Zara is absolutely adorable. And she did say on her first page that she breeds to the smaller end of the standard, just like my breeders breed to the larger end of the standard -- so she may be on the up and up but I would absolutley check into the sire and dams health testing as well as get Zara checked out. I know it may feel a little bit of a drag hearing this when you are so excited and everyone here shares your excitement and joy but just want you to benefit from the combined experience of wonderful breeders and pet owners. I have been truly impressed with the advice given here on the forum. Also something that caught my attention was a picture of Bugsy who belongs to Julia who is a member of this forum. Perhaps Julia did get Bugsy from southern silks - in which case she can ease any fears that may have been raised here- but if the woman is grabbing pictures off the web it should raise another red flag. I have Pm'd Julia and asked her to check it out.


----------



## susanwk (Jul 21, 2007)

ooohhhh..it's a good thing I got on-line tonight and checked to see if I have any new messages....I've just read everyone's advise rather quickly and I really do appreciate your honesty and concern....I am fairly ignorant on everything and I am paying a nice sum for Zara so I do want to make sure I am actually getting what I am paying for....and more importantly ...I want a healthy happy dog without health problems....I need to go back through and read everyone's advice and sift through things and obviously ask more questions etc. I've just received a message from Julia about Bugsy being from my breeder so I am going to start by talking to her which I know will be very helpful. Also, Zara is not a "toy breed", she is supposed to be about 8-10 lbs when fully grown, on the smaller side for Havanese but not the tiny ones. I did not want a tiny one, but yes, Jeanne does have a few of those. I am going to try and check on the "offa" site too as you all suggested. All of this is so new to me....I am so appreciative of all of your advice. I am heading out of town for the weekend tomorrow but will at least contact Julia before then and I will take advantage of next week and your help to make sure that Zara is what I think she is before I accept her next week. I'll keep you all posted and I appreciate your guidance and input.....Just to help me along...what do you mean when you say "have her health testing verifiied". Is this simply the testing from her vet? Also, is the 48 hour clause unusual? Also, what about "bowing of the legs"......o.k....one step at a time. I will talk to Julia tommorow....it's after midnight so I can't do anything tonight!


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Susan, the Havanese Club of America recommends breeders do at least four health tests (that are recorded publicly) on dogs before breeding: BAER (hearing), CERF (eyes, an annual test), patellas (knees), and hips. These tests should be done on both parents before they are bred. If they weren't done, find out why not. If she says they have been done, get the registered names of both parents and you can look it up on the web site: www.offa.org.

If she hasn't done the testing, she may be a fabulous person who has sold several healthy dogs in the past, but why chance it? You might as well eliminate the potential from one of the breeders who does follow the guidelines of our parent club.

And yes, I think 48 hours is too short, especially if you pick up your dog at the end of the week and can't get her in to see the vet before they close for the weekend. What is she going to do if your puppy gets cataracts at a year old?

On my web site, I have a page called "Buyer Beware." It will help you with some red flags, items to research and things to avoid. In addition, there are many of us who will gladly help you with questions and even research the parents if you'd like.


----------



## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Hi Susan, The people on this forum have become a "family" of sorts (you included) and when we see or read something that sends out "red flags" we get concerned. We want everyone to have the healthest and happiest puppies available. There are alot of threads about testing and how to find the right breeder, deposits required. I will try and find them for you and post them here. Good luck.

Finding the Right Breeder:
http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=380
http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=790

Deposits for Puppies:
http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=617


----------



## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Ahh everyone, 
I'm so glad you guys are so willingly giving all of us rookies such great advice&support. I hope Susan will get a healthy puppy and can relax&enjoy that little furry bundle.
All these questions put me a little bit into doubt about my future doggy. I'm getting him from Bonneterre and Bobbi is very supportive, serious sounding and seems to be a reputable breeder. I think some of you even have her dogs (Shannon) or have bred dogs from her dogs' bloodline.
I know I sound silly, but with Susan going through this roller coaster I think I just wanted you guys to reassure me that I'm doing the right thing, before it gets too close to actually getting the dog.
And now: :focus: Susan, we all hope it'll turn out fine, have you talked to Julia yet?!?
Thanks, Maryam.


----------



## KristinFusco (Jun 5, 2007)

Hi Maryam  ,

I have spoken with Bobbi Lowry at Bonneterre on a few occasions, and I find her to be very educated about the breed and informative. She performs all of the health testing required by the HCA plus extra tests on her breeding stock. I am not a breeder, just a happy pet owner, but I have heard nothing but wonderful things about her from other members and some breeders on this forum. 

Hope this helps reassure you a little :biggrin1: 

~Kristin


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Susan,
I hope you understand we are thrilled for you at the prospect of getting a new puppy...everyone is happy for you.It is an exciting time.I just have read and talked with people about the dangers of buying a havanese puppy without health testing.Some have bought and it turned out ok,but others haven't had such "luck"...that is why I asked.I would hate for you to get a pup with health issues and fall into that.No one wants that for someone here.It is heartbreaking.We do not know that Zara is a healthy puppy or not--you will have to decide that...but we have a forum of people here to help you.Kimberly breeds beautiful healthy Havanese puppies and will gladly help you......she knows all about it and then some!I went to the website had a red flag go off at her tiny breedings because of a member here Pennylite who bought a tiny dog Darby.There is also Jolynn who bought a tiny dog Skiver.Then her health guarantee also red flagged for me...I just want you to know I'm not saying buy Zara or do not buy Zara....I just want you to be really informed so you make a good decision and have a healthy dog to love.I just couldn't set back and not say something to you about the health testing prior to you picking up your puppy......I hope you got some good news from Julia as she knows this breeder....eace:


----------



## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Hi Kristin,
yes thank you, that does help me. I had the same exact impression of her and I usually trust my intuition a lot. But since I recently moved here from Germany and sometimes feel lost in this 'new universe' I just needed that little extra-reassurance. 
After all the research I've done for months it seems to have worked out for me, maybe I should start breeding now with all the knowledge I got :blah:
Just kidding!!!
Before you :banplease: I'd like to :focus: on Susan again. Any news?!??


----------



## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Drat! I just had a very lengthy reply disappear on me here! ARGH

First of all, Susan, I am happy to see that you are open to hearing what some of us have to say about our own experiences. No one benefits from you changing your mind or not, nor are there any conflicts of interest. We only want to make sure you are paired with a reputable breeder that will help you find the happy, healthy puppy you so want.

Kimberly, Tom, Jan, Katie, oh..... MANY of the breeders here are very knowledgeable and can help you ask the right questions and make the right decision. After all, the pup you get can grow to be 12, 15 or more years of age! You want those years to be the best they can. 

Debbie, I was about to post some links to those threads too. Thanks! GMTA 
I do have a couple more threads you might want to read, Susan.

http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=779&highlight=Skiver Where we talk about 'teacups', 'tiny' and hybrid Havs.

http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=329&highlight=Skiver About Penny and little Darby.

http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=268&highlight=Skiver About Joanne who first got Skiver and was having so many health problems with him, at the time.

http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=290&highlight=Skiver Health testing.

O.k........ I'm sure you'll have your hands full with lots of reading, Susan. lol Please know we are only trying to help. Don't hesitate to ask questions. That's what this forum is all about.


----------



## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

BTW - off topic - has anyone heard from either Penny or Joanne lately?? It seems it's been eons since I've seen posts from them! ???


----------



## susanwk (Jul 21, 2007)

*latest from SUsan*

O.k...rushing to get out of town for the weekend but did just get off the phone with Julia. She, like me, felt very good about Jeanne as a breeder and a person and feels super about Bugsy. I havn't mentioned to all of you that I live here in Louisiana about 45 minutes from the breeder and have been out to her house twice, seen the whole operation (which is amazingly impressive) spent several hours with Jeanne and just feel that she is completely dedicated and passionate about what she does and that she is totally confident in her dogs. Yes, I do need to ask her some more questions and will go through all of your suggestions when I get back next week. I plan to spend time on the websites etc so that I can be better educated if nothing else. One of the reasons I chose Zara specifically is because Jeanne was so proud of her and so convinced of her quality and beauty. I guess I am already in love with her and in the end perhaps it will be a gamble if the health testing requirements are not up to the standards recommended, but....I am feeling like I have to go with my gut here...and I truly do feel that Jeanne will stand behind her dogs. I do have the advantage too of living just a short distance from her and you can believe that if anything goes wrong she will know about it. I know....the legal angles....and expense...and heartache....and truly...I am going to take in and study all of what you all have offered. I have, at this point , only paid the $200, so next week I will carefully consider all....and I thank you all too! O.k....I have to get out of town....more later. I will say, it was great to talk to Julia so I am thankful for that connection. THis forum is so valuable!

Susan


----------



## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Susan,
I know I'm late in saying Welcome to the Forum! Zara is a wonderful name for your new puppy. I'm glad that you are taking everyone's advice to heart and checking everything out and talking with Julia. There's not much better than talking to someone who has dealt with your breeder before. 
Congratulations on your new puppy!! 

Susan


----------



## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Julie said:


> Susan,
> Did you do some health checking for your new puppy?I do not know your breeder,but I went to the website and it looks like she is breeding the tiny havanese puppies?There is no such thing.There is a thread on here about a lady who bought a tiny hav pup and it ended up with alot of expensive health issues.I wish I could post it here,but I don't know how to.Breeders here stand behind their puppies,and her health guarantee seems different then most.*I just kinda wanted to give you a heads up because I would hate to have you get a puppy that isn't healthy...or with some serious health issues.Hopefully someone else will jump in here and explain some of this better...or perhaps knows this breeder and her website is mis-leading?*


Susan,

I had an "experience" w/Jeanne. She was very nice and talked and talked about the "lines" her dogs came from. When I began asking specific questions about what health testing she did on her dogs and what kind of guarantees she offered, she became extremely defensive, almost angry sounding.

When I shared that I had found another breeder who did health testing and gave good guarantees, her response was something like this: "If she's so good, then I think you should go w/her pup. Ask her if she know's about Diamond Chip, and some others (can't remember what the names were she gave) If she's admiring of them, then she's probably ok. Good luck with her pup."

After that, I ran in the opposite direction from her. I don't think she does any testing at all. She never did answer my questions directly. I'm assuming that because of her angry responses to my questions about health testing.

Just wanted you to know what my experience had been w/her. I hope things work out well for you.

Leslie

P.S. I did go w/the other breeder and, unfortunately my pup has been very ill (you can read about it on the thread Shadow's sick) What I can say is that my breeder is standing behind me more than 100%. Not only is she refunding Shadow's purchase price to help w/the vet bills, she is refunding a deposit I have w/her for another puppy, plus she is planning to give me the other puppy for free. Now that's a guarantee!!!


----------



## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

If a breeder only gives a 48 hour guarantee I would RUN. Most breeders I know would take a dog back at ANY time through out the dogs life. The way Leslies breeder is handling the situation is very admirable. Every breeder is going to have a problem now and then, its how they react to that problem and what they do to prevent them in the first place that is important. 

What if you have your puppy a week and it develops a serious problem? How reassuring that its too bad because your 48 hours is up. Its not a gold fish! Its a puppy! 

I don't know this breeder. However, all you have to do is search the stories here of people who have bought the "tiny" havs and the problems they had. Havanese are not made to be that small. Its heartbreaking. 

Maryam, I have heard wonderful things about Bobbi. I heard she was a good breeder, and I do believe until she went with the HSD that she was heavily involved with HCA. I think you are making a wise choice and will get a great dog. I did meet her last year at Nationals and although she wouldn't remember me, I found her very knowledgeable about the Havanese.


----------



## marbenv (May 31, 2007)

I sure hope Susan doesn't go with her heart. Sounds like a risky decision to me.

Marsha


----------



## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Melissa,
thank you for your comment, that helps me a lot! I hope no one here thinks I ever thought anything bad about Bobbi. I just got a little worried (for no reason) and negative after I read about Susan's puppy issues and poor Leslie&Shadow.
Susan,
none of us can decide for you, but make sure you THINK in this situation instead of FEELING. If the puppy parents are fully health tested (with good results) and your breeder is breeding *within* the AKC-standards but on the smaller side, that sounds quite good. But that contract does sound a little scary compared to other breeder's contract I've read.
Best wishes, Maryam.


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Maryam,
I'm sure you'll be just fine with your pup.We don't mean to scare anyone...just want everyone to have "thee best" outcome.:becky:
From your posts it sounds like you did alot of research on the hav breed and testing.That's good!I did that too.I spent about 6 months researching the toy breeds and looking at havs.They are just adorable!They capture your heart!eace:


----------



## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

> They are just adorable!They capture your heart!


Julie,
I know, that's why my heart skips a beat with everyone in this forum who gets a new puppy. Since there are so many -future/new- puppy owner in this forum I'm almost in cardiac fibrillation :bump:
Susan,
hope you'll be back soon from your trip and tell us how your investigations went! eep:
Maryam.


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Maryam, I didn't see your message earlier. I highly recommend Bonneterre Havanese. I don't think you can do much better in finding a breeder who will stand by her dogs than Bobbi.


----------



## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

eace: 
Kim, 
with you being apparently a very reputable breeder, I feel SOOO much more relieved to hear that nice comment about Bobbi. As I said, I did a LOT of research and feel VERY comfortable with Bobbi's statements and answers to ALL my 25,000 questions. I guess I can still trust my good old German intuition despite the relocation :whoo: 
Thanks again to all of you who helped reassuring me even though this thread isn't really about me!!!
Maryam.


----------



## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Susan!
How are things going?! Are you getting your puppy girl Zara tomorrow? Hope I didn't get the days mixed up...
Maryam.


----------



## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Maryam,
I wondered about Susan too and what she decided about Zara....
We'll be here for her either way!:grouphug:


----------

