# Training a Scared Dog



## Cbelknap (Sep 17, 2014)

Background:

Max has shown a submissive nature from the day we brought him home at 9 weeks. He is 6 months old now and is a sweet, sensitive boy but can easily get his feelings hurt or become scared by new things. 

He tends to cower down, put his ears back, tuck his tail under, roll over or show a submissive grin if frightened. We have tried to build his confidence as best as we know how by trying not to reward these behaviors or force him when afraid. 

Recently:

We enrolled Max in a Beginner Obedience Class. He has already passed a Puppy Class, so this isn’t his first experience with other dogs or a training environment. During the 1st week, Max performed well and had a positive experience. 

During the 2nd week of class, Max was stepped on and snapped at by a bigger dog during the class. Max immediately got scared and tucked his tail under, put his ears back, and cowered down behind me. He refused to walk or move. I tried to verbally encourage him, but he couldn’t recover. The instructors were aware of his behavior and instructed me to ignore him and continue on. I tried to bend down and pet him, but was told to “keep your hands off of him” and “he will choose to walk or be dragged around”. This “tough love” concept caught me off guard.

The instructor took the leash from my hand and said, “Let’s go, Max” and began to drag him across the room. Max wasn’t being obstinate but was afraid and becoming more afraid with every jerk of the leash. I was horrified, yet questioning myself as a first-time dog owner versus a reputable dog trainer. They further instructed me to “stand up tall and walk with confidence” and force him to go even if he refused. I complied and began to pull Max across the room as he wimpered and tried to escape. I felt horrible and never treat my dog this way normally. The class continued, we tried our best to obey the instruction, but we neither one recovered from this experience. When the class ended, Max’s tail was still tucked under and his ears were pinned back. 

These past few days, Max continues to act nervous when I put a leash on him. 

Need Advice:

Was the instructor right about forcing Max to comply even when afraid?
What should I have done? 
How can I help Max overcome his fears and be more confident?

Thank you for any advice.


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## Adorable_Zeke (May 31, 2014)

Oh what a terrible experience for you and for Max! I'm sorry for both of you, but glad you had alarms go off at this training method. There are many much more highly knowledgable and experienced people on this forum who will certainly step in with wise advice to help.

From my research preparing for my first pup who is now 7 months old, the one thing that stuck very well with me is POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT is the way to go. Threatening, fear, intimidation, alpha dog stuff = do not do it. As you learned the hard way, that only makes the dog distrust and fear you and makes the situation you are trying to correct worse.

I would think having treats and luring Max to come to you with the leash in small increments at first would be a good way to proceed. After this incident you may have to treat him when you put on the leash a few times. then later treat him as you put the slightest pressure on the leash so he associates "oh collar, leash = yummy prize for me!" After you've broken the negative association, proceed with getting him walking unafraid on the leash again.

As for what you should have done in the class, I'll be interested to hear some answers on that too. I'm sure you'll hear get your money back and find a class that uses positive reinforcement methods. But what I'm not sure about is if you are in a situation where your puppy has been scared or hurt by a large dog, how do you handle that to both protect your pup, but also not have them perpetually anxious around a larger dog.... I'm guessing having him around large dogs in a controlled situation where he begins to again feel safe in that environment - maybe with a friend who has a well behaved large dog?

I look forward to the answers you'll get on here, and again I'm so sorry for what you and Max experienced.


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

I'm not an expert but I think your trainer was wrong. 

I'm sure Krandall and Dave Gabby will see this and reply with some good advice.

I am always saying this, but I think dog treats might be helpful here. is there a treat that Max really loves? If so maybe you could try giving him that treat when you put the leash on him? Also a hug etc. so he thinks getting the leash is super amazing. 

With my dog, we have a problem with rain. My dog does not like rain, but sometimes I have to take him out in it. It started to become stressful. He will walk, but looks at me like I am criminal for taking him out. One night I decided I would bring along chicken (he loves rotiserrie chicken) - and just stop here and there and give him a piece of chicken. What a difference! The tail was up and he was a lot faster in getting the doggie business completed. So now I make a point of doing that. Food really works with him. He also hates the dog across the street (with good reason, its a long story) but unfortunately when the dog is around is very random so I dont always have chicken with me. But in general I have noticed that the high value dog treat goes a long way with any issues. 

My guy does not like getting the leash put on either, which is weird because he loves walking. But sometimes he kind of cowers over like he doesnt want it. I always hug him after i put it on too. That one I have never been able to figure out. Maybe it is uncomfortable or something, I am not sure.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

get rid of the trainer. What they are doing is called flooding the dog. It will only increase the fear. You should look for another trainer. If you want help to find one ,let me know . Private message me with your zip code. But I strongly recommend more training.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Oh, my! I agree with Dave completely. First, the environment should be managed so that dogs in group classes don't have the opportunity to be stepped on or snapped at by other dogs. If, in spite of good management, something happens, it needs to be handled carefully and gently to get a frightened dog feeling more comfortable again, especially in a group environment. 

You definitely need a different trainer... someone who will work with him in a positive manner, first, probably, alone, then introducing one "safe", quiet, well behaved dog at a time as your poor boy builds his ability to work around other dogs again. Shame on this supposed "trainer", and kudos to you for recognizing that this is not the right way to deal with his fears.

My heart hurts for your little guy!


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## Cbelknap (Sep 17, 2014)

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

Your advice has confirmed the way I felt in my heart. I appreciate your wise words.

I have always used clicker training, positive reinforcement, and Max's favorite chicken treats to teach him. Thank you for encouraging me that this way will produce the results I am looking for.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

here's some reading http://fearfuldogs.com/key-concepts-of-training-fearful-dogs/


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

Quit that class!!!!

TRUST ME and the others, trainers think they are right with their specific theoretical construct, but alas they are not, and scare and scar our doggies. bad trainer!

If I lived close to you, I talk to the trainer for you. all creatures respond far better to positive reinforcement vs negative. 

One of my rescue anatolians, she was a stray, found on the street (hit by a car) with a thick rope tied around her neck, she had chewed herself free from. When I got her (second rescue home), she was collar shy. understandably. 11 yrs later, she loves her collar, and walks like a perfect lady on loose lead. 

Hang in there. Always trust your gut.


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

Everyone else eloquently explained why, and I'm going to throw in my opinion that you should not return to that class or trainer. EVEN if that one thing were forgivable (and it certainly isn't), that one act tells you that his other methods could be flawed too as he is operating from an incorrect mindset. That is the type of training that could actively set your dog back.

Check out this paper if you are into the science.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037663571400223X

They are starting to see that dogs may not be picking up so much on our intentions (e.g. they may not act fearful when we do). There is still plenty more research to be done, but the science is definitely in on the enormous value and utility of positive reinforcement-based training, and that learning cannot really be done when a dog is over threshold and in a fearful mode.


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

Cbelknap said:


> THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
> 
> Your advice has confirmed the way I felt in my heart. I appreciate your wise words.
> 
> I have always used clicker training, positive reinforcement, and Max's favorite chicken treats to teach him. Thank you for encouraging me that this way will produce the results I am looking for.


I'm so glad you are going to keep focusing on positive training methods. One thing that could be very beneficial is to really learn how to apply counter-conditioning. It's a little different than clicker training, in that the fear-producing thing "predicts" the delivery of the treat. And it doesn't have to be close enough for them to be scared; better if it isn't, distance is the first thing I would do for your dog, when showing those signs in your dog class.

Anyway the goal with counter-conditioning (the "other" CC for Havanese folks) is to fundamentally change the dog's conditioned emotional response. Pretty fascinating stuff.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Naturelover said:


> I'm so glad you are going to keep focusing on positive training methods. One thing that could be very beneficial is to really learn how to apply counter-conditioning. It's a little different than clicker training, in that the fear-producing thing "predicts" the delivery of the treat. And it doesn't have to be close enough for them to be scared; better if it isn't, distance is the first thing I would do for your dog, when showing those signs in your dog class.
> 
> Anyway the goal with counter-conditioning (the "other" CC for Havanese folks) is to fundamentally change the dog's conditioned emotional response. Pretty fascinating stuff.


good stuff and here Jolanta explains CC a little more. http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/pets/dog-behavior/counterconditioning but realize your limitations like she mentions on page four and seek professional help if needed .


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## Cbelknap (Sep 17, 2014)

I want to say a big "thank you" to each of you for responding. The advise and articles are extremely helpful. 

I have used "counterconditioning" in the past to help Max overcome his fear of nail trimming. Now when the nail grinder appears, Max expects pieces of yummy roast chicken and is able to tolerate most nail trimming sessions.


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## Cbelknap (Sep 17, 2014)

*From Scared Dog to Canine Good Citizen!*

I just wanted to update everyone on Max...

After our traumatic training experience, I took everyone's advice and found a new training center. We found a place where the trainers use clickers, treats and positive reinforcement methods only. There are NO choke collars, squirt bottles or "correction" methods allowed! What a difference! They have worked with Max to rebuild his confidence and allowed him to work at his own pace. We take breaks when needed and are never forced to get close to other dogs if Max shows fear. I encourage everyone to use positive reinforcement methods and never allow a "trainer" to convince you that your dog must be dominated by you in order to become obedient.

On a side note, my 11-year old daughter and I have learned so much about good vs. bad training methods. We have experienced what harm can be done by negative, forceful training. My daughter is now very passionate about positive dog training and completed the Karen Pryor Dog Trainer Foundations Course. She may be a future dog trainer! It has been a "lemons to lemonade" experience for us all.

I am also proud to report that Max and Molly both passed the AKC Canine Good Citizen test last week. What an accomplishment!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Cbelknap said:


> I just wanted to update everyone on Max...
> 
> After our traumatic training experience, I took everyone's advice and found a new training center. We found a place where the trainers use clickers, treats and positive reinforcement methods only. There are NO choke collars, squirt bottles or "correction" methods allowed! What a difference! They have worked with Max to rebuild his confidence and allowed him to work at his own pace. We take breaks when needed and are never forced to get close to other dogs if Max shows fear. I encourage everyone to use positive reinforcement methods and never allow a "trainer" to convince you that your dog must be dominated by you in order to become obedient.
> 
> ...


Wow Camree so much has happened since I last pm'd you. This is absolutely wonderful to hear. Amazing what a good trainer can do. And Jane is a great resource for sure. Super to hear about your daughter. You should be very proud of yourself. Therapy dogs rock.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Cbelknap said:


> I just wanted to update everyone on Max...
> 
> After our traumatic training experience, I took everyone's advice and found a new training center. We found a place where the trainers use clickers, treats and positive reinforcement methods only. There are NO choke collars, squirt bottles or "correction" methods allowed! What a difference! They have worked with Max to rebuild his confidence and allowed him to work at his own pace. We take breaks when needed and are never forced to get close to other dogs if Max shows fear. I encourage everyone to use positive reinforcement methods and never allow a "trainer" to convince you that your dog must be dominated by you in order to become obedient.
> 
> ...


Oh, I am SO happy for you AND for Max!!! You truly took a horrible experience and turned it into a really positive one! Congrats on their CGC's!


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## Hsusa (Dec 21, 2014)

I'm sorry you and Max had that experience. Don't give up, you will find a good trainer who uses positive reinforcement. A cautious dog is not the worst thing in the world, either. We used to say our little poodle, Stella, was more chicken than dog! But she was an absolute sweetheart, never ever aggressive, and we loved her dearly.


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