# doh!



## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

x-pen...ex pen...
i knew what you guys were talking about but had no idea what x pen stood for.
'exercise pen'!!

how did i discover this?

i just bought one today after work.

mugsy is too darn stubborn and will not stop peeing in the house. he can hold it if he chooses and i know this cause he does it occasionally, i think just to raise my hopes only to dash them again.
so every morning and every day after work i search the house looking for wet spots.
maybe the x pen will help and if not i'll know where to look.

so i set it up and threw in some of his favourite things, a smelly sock (mine), a handful of cheerios and some chew toys, along with one of his beds.
so far he has yet to go in.

joe


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

LOL, Joe, you have to PUT him in. I know Pablo wouldn't go in on his own either, these guys are too dang smart! Good luck.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

so far he has yet to go in. LOLOLOL I'm begining to see why he is still peeing on the floor :biggrin1: He wll learn when YOU don't give him a choice. Now it's time to crack that whip and get tough with that baby.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

mugsy said:


> x-pen...ex pen...
> 
> so i set it up and threw in some of his favourite things, a smelly sock (mine), a handful of cheerios and some chew toys, along with one of his beds.
> so far he has yet to go in.
> ...


ound::boink: LOL Joe, next step: put the dog in the x pen


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Oh Joe - I do feel your pain. Just be careful that your smart guy doesn't figure out how to scale the Xpen. LOL


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

i wanted him 'to choose' to go in. i even paid more for the one with the door.
joe


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Joe- I like that idea of my dogs making great choices but you need to help him make that choice! I would start by placing all food and water into the xpen. I would also put his favorite treats in there too 

Amanda


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

I agree with Amanda. Lure him in with treats. I think the basic crate training tutorials will help in this case too.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

LOL Joe, you do need to put him in. :biggrin1:


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

You'll need to put him in there and close the door (and LATCH it!) for quite a while before he will choose to go in there. I have puppies that are 10 weeks old and only half of them choose to go in there but it is because I have made a game out of coming in the house and running into the pen for treats (with me jumping over the top so they can come in and greet me for their treats). 

It will take a while, but he'll go in there by choice eventually. You need to teach him by routine first.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

As much as our Havs are smart and have us humanize them, they are still DOGS and why in the world would we want to give them 'choices' where we simply need to set rules? You're just making it harder on yourself Joe. If you do everything very matter of fact around Mugsy incl. him spending time in the ex-pen, he won't have a choice and deal with it and in the end be happy about it! Dogs, like kids, need clear rules. I think it's OK to set rules for Mugs (stay in ex-pen when told) AND give him a 'choice' within the rules: several toys, chews, treats, play, sleep, etc.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

quote:
"i wanted him 'to choose' to go in"

Sorry, but at this stage if you want a trained dog you have to do the choosing. The biggest problem that people have with training animals is that they expect them to do something because you want them to do it. This comes later but not for several years. Right now, you are creating habits. The good thing is that these dogs are very smart and catch on quickly. They are creatures of habit and routine. Once they learn how to do something one way it makes it much harder to retrain them to another way.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

can't seem to upload my pic of mugs in the pen.
to clarify, i was speaking a little tongue in cheek and going for the cheap laugh.
and yes, i would like mugs to just walk in on his on but i have no problem putting him in there.
he is in there now and very quiet.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Joe,

I'm watching carefully and hope it's the solution for you. Then I'll go get one for Milo. :biggrin1:


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

i thought mugs would hate the pen and bark or cry about being in there but he's fine.
we just went for a walk and all is normal.
i'll put him back in at bedtime for the real test but the truth is it will be harder on me without his company in the room. and tomorrow morning without his little face peering over the edge of the bed wanting up.

but the rug should be dry...


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Joe, how did it go? Hope well, then Geri can go by an ex-pen


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Joe, getting an ex-pen is a great idea to help with training Mugsy! I also spend some time looking around people's houses for little puddles that my guys may have left.  At home, it's not too bad. Sammy is the one who doesn't ring our bell (there is nothing I haven't tried and he refuses to touch it) at the patio door so he will sometimes pee somewhere in the house. At other homes, though, it's a concern because both he and Ricky will pee somewhere. Not always, but often and it's a pain! :frusty:

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

all is well, mostly.

mugs slept like a baby in the pen with not a peep out of him. i was surprised in the morning as i thought for sure he would try to let me know that he was awake.
the mostly part is that he did pee in there.
we went for our morning walk (he peed and pooped) and then while i was in the shower he peed & pooped in the living room.
like i said one stubborn dog.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Joe~ Have you tried pee pads w/Mugsy? Maybe teaching him there is an approved place to go indoors would help?


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Joe, how old is Mugs now? I'm not bragging but Cicero only woke to pee the first two nights we had him and has sleep all night since then and waited for us to take him out in the morings. I'm thrilled BUT I have been on the far other end of the stick with other pets that I didn't think I would ever get trained. Cicero is 6 months now and "I" want to put him in my bed so badly but "he" is happy in the crate....and I don't want to confuse him now. 

I do think if you put his pee pad in the pen with his bed and toys AND keep him in his "room" for a couple of weeks he will "get it" about where is is allowed to pee and poop. I learned with age and many pets that if we leave them in a larger area they will choose a place to go when they want. AND once they do...it's so hard to break. I made up my mind to be tough with Cicero -- hating to leave him in his crate -- but knowing after a couple of weeks I could have a good dog for years to come. Weeks vs years is a good way to think.
"Good luck"


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Joe, I agree with Leslie. Why don't you put a pee pad in the ex pen with Mugsy? I think it would help him out a lot in the long run.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

mugsy is now 19 months old. i got him when he was 10 months old and he had never been house trained. i think this is part of the problem.
i have tried the pee pads but he thinks they are for carrying around the house and shredding. i plan to try again and use the frames available to see if that changes anything. i do think that with the pen and the pee pads i can get closer to having him trained. he is a smart dog, he will fetch a ball and return it, he sits on command and knows what 'inside' means among other things.
the pads will start tonight, i didn't want to introduce the pen and pads at the same time.
i have hope...


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## michi715 (Apr 8, 2008)

Yeah, we leave a pee pad in the pen for Guapo at all times and (I hesitate to say this and jinx us) he RARELY has accidents at 3 months old (TODAY)! Puppies pee A LOT, sometimes I feel like Guapo goes on the pad every 5 minutes, but it's worth having the pad so he doesn't pee anywhere else. We had to be really firm about the pad shredding thing, which he tried to do a few times. Now he only does it when he wants a clean one (smart dog)! Good Luck, it sounds like you're on the right track!


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Joe, :laugh:

I'm glad you got your xpen setup going and hope Mugsy will learn to enjoy it! I have always preferred leaving them in an xpen vs. a crate just because they have more room to move around and spread out. 

When I leave the house now, I put both boys in my bedroom. So far, so good - no accidents and no destructive chewing.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

i am growing more soft as i age.
i never have had a problem leaving a dog in a good sized crate but i didn't have the heart to stuff mugs in one. the xpen is great as it's so much bigger, more light and play room, toys fit in and he can throw his little fuzzy dolls about.
of course it looks rediculous in the living room, like i'm about to raise chickens...


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

i didn't want to introduce the pen and pads at the same time.
i have hope...[/QUOTE]

Why?? I'm really not being rude I just want you to get this cute guy trained. You gave him a "house" with a bedroom (bed) a den (toys) and water (kitchen)....now why would you not give him a bathroom also? If you move into a new home...are you going to add the bathroom later?

If you put the bed, toys, etc in the back area and the pad at the front, near the door...he will more likely use it. At his age, to retrain, I think he will learn faster if he is outside playing -- "with you" inside -- or in the pen. If you leave the room to do 'anything' place him in his pen....so he only has that area to 'go'. Everytime you get him out of the pen said, "outside to potty" and take him out for a while. They are smart and he will get it if you stick with hard rules -- and when you are happy, he will be happier.

"Many" years ago I had a pet I couldn't train -- and people weren't using crates and pens and pads. It was just try to catch them...clean up...and pray they 'got it'. She never did because I couldn't 'always' catch her and she thought the bathroom was the corner of my dining room...uggggg I hope Mugs 'gets it' in a couple of weeks.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Joe,
Does it look kinda like this? :biggrin1:


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

looks pretty much like that, different shape.


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Joe, yes, I agree, put a pee pad or litter box in the ex-pen and put Mugsy in it at any time you do not have your eyes on him. Even if they have just peed and pooped and you are in the shower or otherwise engaged, in the ex-pen they go. I have an ex-pen in the middle of my family room too but I know it won't be forever. Tessa, at 11 mo, now has free reign in a limited area while I am gone. I do however, still put both of mine in a crate in our bedroom at night to sleep. You may think it is inhumane but dogs actually like the "den" feeling while they sleep.

It does work! Good luck!


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## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

juliav said:


> LOL Joe, you do need to put him in. :biggrin1:


MAYBE it's the smelly sock that's keeping him out...ound:ound:


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

he LOVES my smelly socks...kinda gross actually.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

lol That is too funny!!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

mugs is now in the pen and sitting on a pee pad!
i'm in the tv room playing on my new macbook...but i'm lonely w/o the little guy in here with me.

joe


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Oh well Joe, just think how great the "reunion" will be.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I know that lonely feeling. What I did was put Cicero's leash on him and hook it under the leg of my chair. That way if he sniffed or circled I knew it was time to go outside for business. He would stay by my chair and relax and chew on a bully stick. Now he is off lease but attached to my side each time I sit at the desk.
Maybe you can try that also. He CAN be with you....by you still in control.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

that's a very good idea.
thanks.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

mugsy said:


> he LOVES my smelly socks...kinda gross actually.


Probably the favorite things Jackson loves to snitch and run with . . . I don't know why, but they love 'em :biggrin1:


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

*They pick up habits....*

You're welcome.
Beware....you may end up being his pillow -- like this. Now he is with me at all times since I had him leased to me to potty train. I hooked him to my belt when I was doing chores. ound: He is on my foot as I type!!!!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

i just remembered the baby gate and we are both 'locked' in the tv room. it's a small room and he pretty much has to be in my sight lines.
joe


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

how can u be lonely with a new macbook?!? hehe once he's trained, then he can sit with u on the couch and you can take pictures together using photobooth. It has cool and funny effects. Try it out and post some pics for us


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

this macbook does seem pretty cool, i have to admit. but...i took some pics of the mugster in his pen, did a quick photoshop on them, saved them, i thought, in iphoto but when i went to post one here i couldn't find it.
i need some more time with the mac i guess.
joe


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Joe, I'm a big fan of tethering like Dale does! I highly recommend it 

Oh, and I love my Mac too :biggrin1: Enjoy!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

2 nights in the pen and all was quiet again last night.
mugs used the pee pad, first time ever!!! yeah!
of course he shredded the first one i put in there, got it out of the frame.

joe


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

"Good Dog" Be sure to always give good treats as soon as he goes pee and poop outside. I can see a trained Mugs in your future. All the hard work will pay off -- with years of enjoying Mugs and NO wet carpets.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Excellent! Way to go Mugsy!


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Way to go Mugs :clap2:


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Way to go Mugsy. By the way, I picked up an 18 month old rescue who wasn't house trained and it's taken over a year to really make him reliable. And boy, don't leave down any paper or his paper training takes over.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

mugs always gets a cheerio when he does his first pee and any poop outside. he comes right over to ask for it when he's done his business.

he almost went into the pen by himself this morning until he realized what he was doing, then he stopped short and lay down in a ball. but i think he will eventually.
he was very affectionate this morning also. he let me hold him, he lay against my chest and cuddled right in there. he mostly doesn't like to be held but prefers to just touch a part of me, like sleep up against my leg when we're on the couch or maybe sleep on my foot when i'm on the computer. i think he misses the early morning snuggles too.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

after work update...the pad was intact and still dry and so was the rest of the pen.
we went for our after work walk (say that 3 times fast) and he could not wait to do his thing outside.

a dry house..whatever will i do with all this free time?

joe


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Joe, that's great news!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

another intact and dry pad this morning.

i think i need a plan...how best to proceed?

the ultimate goal would be a pup who never 'goes' inside but i could live with a pup who had free range of the house and used the pads when needed.

suggesstions welcomed.
joe


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Joe, what you are doing with the pen seems to be working. You need to keep it up until you know - without a doubt - that he is not going to 'go' inside. That takes time. If you go back to giving him free range you will go back to wet carpet. The reason he is doing so good is you have taken his choice away. His choice is to use the pad in his house and with his age he CAN hold it -- but with free range HE DOESN'T WANT to hold it. His nose can smell out a drop on the carpet and he will go -- unless you continue long enough for him to KNOW its outside or pad only.
I do honestly believe the only way you are going to make him reliable is to pen, lease him to you, or have your eye on him for quite a while.
It seems mean -- but it's not -- to train our pets!!!
The "choice" is really YOURS -- do you want wet carpets or not? He will learn....and have free range of the house for years to come!!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

this is working well and i really don't feel mean. 
when i am away, he is in the pen and when i am home i 'lock' us both in the tv room, with the baby gate, where i play on the laptop and watch tv or listen to music. so far he has not even tried to go in the tv room.
and lots of walks which we both enjoy.
joe


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## michi715 (Apr 8, 2008)

Sounds like you're doing the right thing...and this way you both get to be happy!


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

mugsy said:


> a dry house..whatever will i do with all this free time?
> joe


:laugh: Go shopping for more toys for Mugsy!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

mugs already has more toys than most kids i know
and his 'favourite' keeps changing.

joe


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

let me know if this is getting boring to you all

after work today - the pad was soaked and the pen was dry.

i'm liking this!


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Way to go Mugsy - sounds like you are both getting the message. Actually by giving him a safe place to stay and play when you're not around, you are helping him so much. I'd love to see the toy pile of Mugs when you get around to giving us a photo or two. HINT Hint. We haven't seen any new ones since you've gotten his hair cut and I'm sure it's growing out now.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Nope! I'm not gettign bored at all!! Hurrah for the great success! It's all going so well! Stay with it, your both doing great! And yeah I'd love to see hair growing out pictures too.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

photos are on hold till i figure out the new macbook.

joe


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Joe, I totally feel your pain. :frusty: Mugsy seems to be doing great now though! I wish I could say the same for Sammy and sometimes Ricky.

Sammy pees and/or poops in the house almost every day. We have to close doors to rooms with mats or rugs as he and Ricky will often use them.  We have a gate across the stairs to the bottom half of the house because it just makes my life easier, limiting their space somewhat. I have the gate opened many times/day, but it's when we are around and can be more or less in the same rooms as the dogs. They will be 2 yrs. old this summer. 

If it is raining, then Sammy will not go outside. That's when I really have to watch him. I had him leashed to my bathrobe this morning because it was raining, but I didn't do it as soon as we got up, so he beat me to it and manged both a pee and a poop in our living room. 

It is discouraging and stressful when we are elsewhere, as I'm constantly watching that they don't take off into people's bedrooms, bathrooms or places where I can't see them. I suppose I could crate them, gate them just in the kitchen, like we did when they were 8 month old pups, but somehow I konw that will turn out to be even more stressful. Ricky, with his very bad habit of barking, will no doubt drive us insane wanting out when the rest of us are in the other parts of the house. We don't live in the kitchen after all. sigh.....

I'm not sure what to do either, though I agree with all the advice from Dale, Lisa, and others here. Should I be buying an ex-pen too? Then what? Move it around from floor to floor when we move around? We used to have 2 or 3 gates up here and there, but I only have one left for indoors now. We have two outside off our deck. 

I found it a nuisance having Sammy leashed to me, but it's not impossible for me to keep that up, I suppose. It certainly beats wiping up messes!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

marj,
i am loving the x-pen. it has solved a lot of problems and made me realize how stressed i was about them.
mugs is either in the pen or the tv room with me and we are both 'locked' in there with a baby gate.
he uses the pee pads almost every day and sleeps on them when he doesn't. we go for a walk as soon as i get up and as soon as i get home. the rugs have been dry all week!
the best part is he doesn't bark or cry so i have not felt badly at all. you may have to just let them get used to it. turn the stereo up maybe?
there are other good parts too. he is more affectionate and less aggressive in his play, he loves me to hold him when i am on the computer and he really didn't like to be held all that much before.
he needs some 'encouragement' to get into the pen but i can live with that.
i heartily recommend getting one.

joe


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Joe, I'm glad Mugs is doing so well and that you have realized how much it has helped. I do believe that they feel and know when we are stressed over bad behavior (I didn't want to be with my parents when they were ill with me either...lol) -- and pets also know when we are happy with how they are acting. The saying is true...if moms not happy then nobody is happy...lol Cicero will go into his crate sometimes during the day to nap, but at night I have to give him a treat to get him to go in. I think that is okay since I like a midnight snack also. Keep up the good things...and Mugs will be doing anything you ask one of these days.

Marj.....The pen would be great for you also. Get those boys trained to grow up to be good men. And no you don't move the pen around -- you make it their place. I don't follow DH around everywhere - and enjoy having my alone time. :biggrin1: I think, like Joe, you would see lots of change besides just potty training. Also, the pen doesn't have to be forever -- they learn how to be a great family member -- then the pen can come down. Usually within 3 days...they stop whinning and you will see a good change. Can't hurt to try one for a couple of weeks -- then you will probably want to keep it for a while.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

We don't have a pen, gates are up though to keep Scooter in the same part of the house we're in. He has the family room, kitchen-breakfast room and laundry room. He only has an accident every few days and it's usually because we haven't gotten him out in time. Does it seem that he has too much space to run around? Whenever he's upstairs he's closed into whatever room we're in with the door so he's never up there alone. I don't want him to have to much space or too little.


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

*I love our expen!  [COLOR="Black"]Izzy was trained by 5 or 6 months and Doc hasn't had an accident in the house for a month. ( he is 8 months) He was harder to train and we gave him too much space too soon, but once we were more dilegent again, he remembered how things were supposed to be!! I still don't totally trust him like I do Izzy, but I don't think it will be long until I can put the expen away for good. He too, uses it as his sleeping area when we are home.*[/COLOR]


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

Our baby pen is FABULOUS. Solved Winston's stress pooping [when I left I would just gate him in the kitchen and he would almost always poop] issue I was having a few months ago. We call it his 'cave'. I leave it open while home and he's in there a lot snoozing [he's in there right now!].
It has his bed and a couple toys and I'll sometimes fill a kong with peanut butter and treats for him to work on.

Best $50 I've spent.


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## michi715 (Apr 8, 2008)

I'm sure this varies by puppy quite a bit and Alan and I initially disagreed, but you can't deny the results. Basically, Guapo is in the pen if we are not home or if we need to be doing things and can't keep a relatively close eye on him. He loves his pen and has everything a puppy could need in there so he doesn't usually mind being in there. There was a two-three week span when he had a few accidents that I believed were directly related to him having too much freedom, Alan disagreed. However, now that he has somewhat less freedom (and I mean that, he really doesn't spen very much time in there unless he's sleeping if we're home), he hasn't had an accident in well over a week. :whoo:


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

another good morning for the boys at my place!

mugs jumped into the x-pen today following a cheerio. 

i'm wondering about the next phase in this plan though.
would it be wise to set up another pad in a frame and leave that one outside the x-pen? this was he starts to get used to using a pad that's not in a pen.
joe


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## michi715 (Apr 8, 2008)

That's great news, Joe!

We have a pad w/ frame outside the pen, but more because Guapo does not like to poop on the pad inside the pen than that we're trying to get him used to anyother pad location.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Joe - I wouldn't worry about the pad in the pen at this point. Right now you want all the success you can get - so leave it in there. And unless you are really tight for space, can't you leave the xpen up for quite a while? It's a perfect safe playpen.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

This is just my opinion....and you know what thay say about that. 

Joe, I think it might be possible to confuse Mugs if you change to soon. I think sometimes we 'jump the gun' when things go well for a week and we are ready to move on to another level before it is 'set' in their mind on what they are doing. Now he is using the pad in his pen because he more or less has to....but if you put out another one he might get confused thinking "does he want me to use this pad instead?" I would keep things the way they are -- since it's working -- and wait till you know for sure that he "got it" before trying to tell him it's okay to use a pad in a different location. At his age you probably know when he has to poop as most dogs get in a pattern, usually after they eat and can go outside. Not trying to tell you what to do, but I hope you don't have a set-back and have to start over when you seem pleased with Mugs. When training "habit" is a big thing for these guys...and it takes a while for pads to become a habit.

Ann, I also think if your furbaby is having "any" accidents -- they are being given to much space. The 'habit' to use the pad is not strong enough to call them potty trained if they are peeing anywhere else beside the pad or outside.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

i live alone so space for the pen isn't a problem. i wasn't thinking of taking the pen down already or taking the pad out of the pen. i was thinking about adding another pad, outside the pen.
but i can understand the point that it may be confusing to mugs.

joe


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I don't think it would be confusing for him. When Kubrick was smaller, we had two pads going because we noticed that if he was in the kitchen, he wouldn't have time to run back to the pad in the living room so we put one next to the bathroom in the hall. He used both with no problems and no more accidents! Eventually we did take the second one down altogether when he was 100% reliable and in order to make sure he didn't poop there, we fed him dinner where his pad used to be for 3-4 days afterwards. Worked like a charm.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I'll be honest. My head tells me we have to do something "tough" to fix this pee problem or we are in for even more trouble/stress down the road. Dale, I love what you say about turning these boys into good men! True!  I want dogs that are well-behaved and that I don't have to worry about when we go visiting, as often happens. Just for example, we are going away for a week and might have another Hav owner lined up to watch Ricky and Sammy. I can't help but be worried about Sammy's problem with house training!  It's a burden to place on others.

I do wonder, however, how on earth I'm going to get them to stay in a pen when they've had run of most of the house for over a year! They are almost 2 (this summer) so we aren't talking about puppies here. I know dogs are trainable to anything as they take things one day at a time and with determination and consistency, you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. But man...... with our barking Ricky, I'm wondering how huge a pain this is going to be! :frusty: Do I really want to spend $100 on an expen for the two of them? 

Maybe I'll try the leash thing with Sammy. It's usually in the morning and late at night that he sneaks off to do his pee/poop in the living room, so if I tie him to me then, then it might be enough. I'll give that a go first. If only he could ring that @#%! bell by the patio door, then we could help him avoid going indoors. But I know it doesn't bother HIM to eliminate in the house, it just bothers ME!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

marj,
mugsy is 19 months old and adapting very well, in fact, tonight he is jumping in and out of the pen on his own. that is something i was not expecting to see for quite a while.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Marj,
I would never try to talk you into anything concerning your babies. You love them and I know you know your boys...and I don't.

I will just say that 2 years is young since they should live many more years. I also think 'most'...not all...adjust to a pen much quicker than you would think. There is just something about them being den animals that make them like having their own 'home' and changes their behavior. Every pet I've had seem to listen to me better and train in other areas once they knew where their 'home' was. Hard for me to explain, but I've always had good family members by being tough and continuing till I get the behavior I want. I don't attach the lease any longer -- and didn't have to much. It was easier to put Cicero in his pen where he could nap, chew a stick or toy and I could get things done without him sneaking off to pee. I think by taking him out of the pen at certain times and going outside..his body set a clock on when to poop. At 9 -- morn and again at night - I take him out with a ball and after he runs a couple of times, he hits the woods and poops.

I just wish you didn't have to deal with potty in the house. I've been there many years ago and I know that pet picked up on my attitude of having to grab a paper towel and do a clean up -- nobody is happy about that chore. It is so much better when they bark, whin, or ring a bell -- and potty outside. You feel good when they have 'got it' and that helps your overall relationship with a pet.

I know it would be harder now than if they were 12 weeks, but I think it could be done. I wish I lived near and Cicero and I could keep them for your trip. They are handsome little guys!!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

i thought i'd update this thread...

mugsy has been using the x-pen regularly. he has been using the pad regularly also and has not had an accident on any of the rugs!!!

this past week, he has 'held it in' till i've come home from work and is doing all his business outside.
he still is using the pad overnight though.

i also put another pad just outside the x-pen to see if he had any interest but so far he has ignored it, except for sleeping on it

slowly he is learning and i could not be more pleased.

we are a happy 2some.

joe


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Joe,
Great news!
It should be encouraging to those who are trying to train their puppies.
It seems like you are almost ready for a buddy for Mugs ??


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

mugsy said:


> slowly he is learning and i could not be more pleased.
> 
> we are a happy 2some.
> 
> joe


What a wonderful update Joe! I'm so happy to hear he's finally getting it. Potty accidents and clean up can really put a dent in your relationship after the puppy time is over. Yout hard work is really paying off. Good job!


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

:whoo::whoo: So happy to hear your good news, Joe!!


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Leslie said:


> Joe,
> Does it look kinda like this? :biggrin1:


I was just looking at the picture I took (I think I took it...maybe you did) of your xpen setup a couple of days ago. It's a little different and I think Tori was in it. I'll have to look around on my hard drive and see if I can find it again.
Joe, do yourself a favor and google NILF....nothing in life is free. Sounds so simple, works so good.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

marjrc said:


> I'll be honest. My head tells me we have to do something "tough" to fix this pee problem or we are in for even more trouble/stress down the road. Dale, I love what you say about turning these boys into good men! True!  I want dogs that are well-behaved and that I don't have to worry about when we go visiting, as often happens. Just for example, we are going away for a week and might have another Hav owner lined up to watch Ricky and Sammy. I can't help but be worried about Sammy's problem with house training!  It's a burden to place on others.
> 
> I do wonder, however, how on earth I'm going to get them to stay in a pen when they've had run of most of the house for over a year! They are almost 2 (this summer) so we aren't talking about puppies here. I know dogs are trainable to anything as they take things one day at a time and with determination and consistency, you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. But man...... with our barking Ricky, I'm wondering how huge a pain this is going to be! :frusty: Do I really want to spend $100 on an expen for the two of them?
> 
> Maybe I'll try the leash thing with Sammy. It's usually in the morning and late at night that he sneaks off to do his pee/poop in the living room, so if I tie him to me then, then it might be enough. I'll give that a go first. If only he could ring that @#%! bell by the patio door, then we could help him avoid going indoors. But I know it doesn't bother HIM to eliminate in the house, it just bothers ME!


Marj, you may be surprised. Dogs are den animals. The only one who gives me narrowed eyes is my standard poodle when I say to kennel up but she thinks she's a human and Mother of the animal world and above things like kennels because she's so well trained (and she'll be happy to tell you that)


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Jan,

My standard poodle Romeo never uses the crate (unless he is at the groomre's and has to), because just like your standard female, he is just too perfect to be put into one.  One female loves, loves, loves her crate and can't sleep well without being in it. 

I don't know if you ever saw the big pics of my standards (I remember you asked in one of the threads), so if you didn't here they are. 

Edited to add, that I didn't mean to hijack the thread.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Julia - your standards are just beautiful. I love their names, Romeo and Brandy. How romantic!


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

mugs goes into and out of the pen on his own if i leave the door open.
if he has a favourite toy in there he will jump in to get it.
at night and in the morning i just say, 'inside' and he runs over and jumps in. of course he likes the cheerio treat that follows.

as for a buddy for mugs, the local humane society' website is showing a couple of small dogs, real cuties, that are tempting. my plan was to wait till august but i may go look this weekend.

joe


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Joe,

Your story is so encouraging to me. My ex-pen just arrived today. I haven't set it up yet because I want to figure a way to do it in the kitchen whereby I can also walk around and function. I also want to give the floor a good scrubbing before I set it up, so that's a job for tomorrow. 

I have, so far, been keeping the boys gated in the kitchen when I can't be with them every minute and I still get puddles, more I think from Milo than Bailey. Just today Bailey was really good, doing all his business outside and looking for his treats for "being good." Then tonight, shortly after we came in from the yard (and he had piddled), he started jumping at me and barking. He does that sometimes though so I didn't pay attention. Sure enough he then had an accident. I'm praying for a success story with this too. Life in this house would be so much better if I don't have to stress all the time about ruined carpets and a smelly house.

Fingers crossed, but I do see some progress even now.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

the worst part is missing the early morning cuddles that we had before.
now i am dressed and ready for our very early morning walk before i let mugs out of the pen.
we are usually out by about 6:15 most mornings.

joe


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Joe, I'm happy to read your update. It seems like you are doing fantastic and mugs is happy that he is pleasing you. It's nice to hear that he is getting better and better, and that you are seeing good results.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

What a doll Julia! Standard poodles are too smart for OUR own good LOL. There must be some kind of connection as I've talked to many who have the 2 breeds and they mix so well


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Oh duh, that's 2 different spoos! I'm a little slow this morning.....shoot what morning am I ever awake  I love the pictures


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

and another dry pad this morning...we are on a roll!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

:whoo::clap2:


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## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

Joe, your persistence has paid off! way to go! I love that you kept a humorous & happy spirit through the whole process. This can be so frustrating to deal with!

Julia - your poodle is georgous!!!! Just a beauty! My friend just got her 3rd Standard. She's addicted to poodles as I am to Havs.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

*Yeaaaa*







WAY TO GO, MUGS


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

mugsy said:


> the worst part is missing the early morning cuddles that we had before.
> now i am dressed and ready for our very early morning walk before i let mugs out of the pen.
> we are usually out by about 6:15 most mornings.
> 
> joe


Joe - so glad Mugs is performing! I am working with Lola on housebreaking...of course...and our trainer advised to get her to learn to hold it. So in the mornings, I let her out of her crate at 6am. We used to rush outside immediately. The last month I have been putting a tether leash on her when she gets out, and having a morning cuddle on the sofa for 15 minutes, 20 minutes, before we go outside. It has been no problem! Amazingly enough. This morning I had to remind her to go outside after an hour. We got outside and she immediately went pee and poop, and scrambled back in for more cuddles. Then I had to rouse her for breakfast! Might be something you try...just to get that cuddling going.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

Redorr said:


> Joe - so glad Mugs is performing! I am working with Lola on housebreaking...of course...and our trainer advised to get her to learn to hold it. So in the mornings, I let her out of her crate at 6am. We used to rush outside immediately. The last month I have been putting a tether leash on her when she gets out, and having a morning cuddle on the sofa for 15 minutes, 20 minutes, before we go outside. It has been no problem! Amazingly enough. This morning I had to remind her to go outside after an hour. We got outside and she immediately went pee and poop, and scrambled back in for more cuddles. Then I had to rouse her for breakfast! Might be something you try...just to get that cuddling going.


great idea!
thanks


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Joe - Mugsy is doing great, congratulations. :whoo: :whoo:

Jan - Standards and Havs do mix incredibly well and everyone always comments on it. My cream male, Romeo and Bugsy are really two peas in a pod, inseparable and the best of friends. It's so adorable to watch them rough house and of course my little princess Brandy always gets in the middle, just to make sure she doesn't get left out. I would recommend Standrad and Hav combo to anynone. :biggrin1:


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

another dry pad this morning!!

is this how it works normally?
i had envisioned mugsy using pads plus outside forever, but do they normally just stop using the pads?

joe


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

ok, having thought about it a bit, i'd say that just stopping the use of the pads by mugs is not a normal thing. it may happen but using both the pads and the outdoors is maybe more usual.
i plan to just continue as is for now as he seems to be fine using the pen and i feel more secure with him in there.
but i do wonder what the next step should be.

joe


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Joe, I think he has just learned to 'hold it' during the night -- therefore dry pad in the morning. Which is great. Cicero only woke us at 4 am for two nights, then started waking us at 6 am for a couple of weeks. Now he sleeps till we wake and make coffee and get him out around 8 or 8:30. Mugs may use the pad during the day if he can't hold it till you get home, but at his age he may just want to go outside and stop the pad on his own. If he likes the pen, it's the best place when you are gone and you will feel better knowing he is safe and not going to get into anything that could harm him. You and Mugs both have done GREAT on this issue!!!!!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Joe, the next step is to give Mugsy some freedom. Not too much, just a room. Maybe give him an hour or two more than he's been getting and see how things go. Keep the pad there. Eventually you will be able to do away with the pen altogether. If you still want to use it when it's convenient, though, then you can definitely do that, but you want to get to the point where you can let Mugsy have full run of the house and he is still trustworthy. Now that he knows there's a pad there, he should be much better. Just take it slowly... don't give him too much space at once, and he'll be fine.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

i have been giving him a bit more space, during the evenings i have stopped using the baby gate on the t.v. room so he has the run of the place, but he sticks close to me anyway. and no accidents.

he did use the pad overnight last night but i think that's ok.

i plan to continue with the pen for the foreseeable future.

joe


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Joe, that is wonderful news! Your patience is paying off and Mugsy is the better for it. Good job, guys! :biggrin1:


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

we had 2 accidents this weekend...

yesterday i fell asleep on the couch and i guess mugsy didn't want to use the pad, the pen was open.

and tonight, he was limping earlier and slept all day and i guess when he woke up he had to go. the limp seems to have gone away. not sure what happened there.

joe


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