# Always Hungry



## Lisa T. (Feb 5, 2015)

Rudy is always hungry. He is 10 1/2 months old. I'm not sure how much he weighs now. My guess is about 10 lbs. 
I have been feeding him 1/4 cup of Fromm puppy gold dry food (breakfast) and 1/4 cup of the same for dinner for a total of 1/2 cup per day. This amount was recommended by my vet when he was just 3 months old. I'm thinking to increase to 3/4 cup per day divided into two feedings. To anyone who has an older pup, and is feeding them mostly dry kibble, how much are you giving them?

Another question I have.... Does the freeze dried raw food fill them up more? My problem is the freeze dried is expensive. I'm thinking of adding some kind of booster to his 1/4 cup of Fromm Gold dry food as another option instead of increasing the dry food to 3/4 cup per day. If I added the freeze dried raw food as a topper to the 1/4 cup of his kibble, how much do I give him? 

I see a lot of posts about the fussy eater, but I have the opposite problem. He will eat anything and has no sign of allergies. My husband thinks he's starving. I think Rudy is going to be on the bigger side even though his mother is only 7 lbs and his father is 9 lbs. 

He was getting bully sticks, but I stopped giving them to him. He was going through them too fast and then recently he started this guarding behavior when we went near him if he had the bully stick. I don't know if this new guarding behavior is because he's hungry or because he's going thru the wonderful loving "Teen" years.

I appreciate any ideas you all may have.


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## Laellis (Jan 20, 2016)

Hi. I feed Lily Fromms Heartland Gold (no grain). Lily is 6 1/2 month and weighs 6lbs. I feed her 3/4 cup a day...sometimes a bit if she's hungry and sometimes she leave a bit in her bowl. According to the instructions on the Lily's food package, Rudy should be eating almost 1 cup a day.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

My last dog was a Bichon who ate 3/4 cup of kibble per day her whole life. Her weight remained stable at about 13 lbs. Molly is the opposite of Rudy and NEVER acts hungry! I am lucky if she eats 1/2 cup per day, as it is usually less than that.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lisa T. said:


> Rudy is always hungry. He is 10 1/2 months old. I'm not sure how much he weighs now. My guess is about 10 lbs.
> I have been feeding him 1/4 cup of Fromm puppy gold dry food (breakfast) and 1/4 cup of the same for dinner for a total of 1/2 cup per day. This amount was recommended by my vet when he was just 3 months old. I'm thinking to increase to 3/4 cup per day divided into two feedings. To anyone who has an older pup, and is feeding them mostly dry kibble, how much are you giving them?
> 
> Another question I have.... Does the freeze dried raw food fill them up more? My problem is the freeze dried is expensive. I'm thinking of adding some kind of booster to his 1/4 cup of Fromm Gold dry food as another option instead of increasing the dry food to 3/4 cup per day. If I added the freeze dried raw food as a topper to the 1/4 cup of his kibble, how much do I give him?
> ...


While there are some "fussy" Havanese, this is mostly a learned behavior. (i.e... Most have taught their owners to spoil them! )

Dogs are scavengers by nature, and, as such, they are ALWAYS hungry. They are opportunistic feeders, who will eat whenever they get the chance. Do NOT increase the amount you feed your dog because he "acts hungry". That's the way to a fat dog. Only increase his food if you and your vet feel he is actually too thin. (Hips and/or spine prominent is too thin... You SHOULD be able to easily feel ribs, and there should be a nice tuck-up behind the ribcage)

If you feel MUST add something for "filler" steamed veggies are nutritious, low calorie and a hit with most dogs. Things like green beans and broccoli.

Incidentally, Kodi is a MUCH larger dog than yours, and when he was eating kibble HE was only getting 1/4c twice a day. I would not increase what you are feeding without first consulting your vet about your dog's weight.


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## M&J (Mar 1, 2016)

krandall said:


> Incidentally, Kodi is a MUCH larger dog than yours, and when he was eating kibble HE was only getting 1/4c twice a day. I would not increase what you are feeding without first consulting your vet about your dog's weight.


So many vets are different. Ours said 1/4 cup three times a day. I have seen many that are at 1/4 cup twice a day and some 1 cup a day. Why such differences for the same breed? :frusty:


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

Our Ruby, who is 8 months old, eats 1 cup of food a day plus training treats and she has a fairly low level of exercise. She is not at all fat. Personally, I would only want to offer less food if there was an actual weight problem.


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## JoJo's Grayt (Dec 10, 2015)

Our vet wants to be able to fill ribs but not have them noticeable. I noticed on the label of the food we feed JoJo that there was a phase that went up about 1/4 cup and then back down around this age. I purchased a maze feeder b/c JoJo was gulping the food. I think her eating slower has helped her feel more full. She is very food motivated and checks the other pets food bowls given the chance. Have you asked your vet about this. We increased the food between 4 and 5 months. She is 6 now.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> Dogs are scavengers by nature, and, as such, they are ALWAYS hungry. ...................If you feel MUST add something for "filler" steamed veggies are nutritious, low calorie and a hit with most dogs. Things like green beans and broccoli.


I can't add much to Karen's excellent advice except to tell you my experience with Ricky. Ricky weighed about 12 pounds at one year. Ricky was and still is "always hungry" Currently he eats Honest Kitchen at mealtime, 1/2 cup in the morning and 1/4 cup in the evening. Throughout the day he gets training treats like Pioneer Naturals kibble, dehydrated banana slices (we have our own dehydrator), frozen blueberries and for snacks, steamed vegetables like cauliflower, zucchini, carrots, broccoli, etc. So in total he gets 1 to 1 1/4 cups of nutritious food a day. Today he is a 15 pound lean and mean playing machine! I can easily feel his ribs but he has a nice layer of fat over the top. His torso is the classic coke bottle shape. Oh, and thanks to Karen for the tip, Ricky ALWAYS gets a small cookie when I put him to bed at night in his crate!

Meal time for Ricky (morning and late afternoon) is always a "find it" game. I hide his food bowl in a different spot in the house at each meal. I put him in a sit/stay, hide the food and then release him. He then runs around the house like a maniac, using his nose to smell out the hidden prize, his dinner. He loves this game and we accomplish a lot of different positive training techniques at the same time!

Freeze dried food can be expensive, but we purchase Honest Kitchen Preference from Chewy.com. A 7 lb. box is abut $55 with autoship and lasts us something like 3 or 4 months. We add boiled, shredded chicken breast or white fish to the Preference base mix for his protein. Ricky always licks his bowl super clean within 2 or 3 minutes and is looking for more, more, more! :hungry:

Ricky loves bully sticks! But he can go through a 12" stick in about 45 minutes - the whole thing! But if we give him too much at one time, it gives him a soft stool. They are also very fattening and Momi hates the smell of them n the house. Therefore we give them to him infrequently and when we do, cut the stick in about 4" pieces (which he devours in about 15 minutes). If he gets the whole 4" piece, then he wont go into growling to protect his food like he might if we gave him a larger piece and had to take it away from him.



M&J said:


> So many vets are different. Ours said 1/4 cup three times a day. I have seen many that are at 1/4 cup twice a day and some 1 cup a day. Why such differences for the same breed?


 Every dog is different in their nutritional requirements. Up to about one year old a dog should get enough food to feed a rapidly growing body and high energy levels. Your Vet and breeder should be able to give you advice about how much food that should be. After about one year, you should be able to determine the proper amount of nutrition by feeling their body. As Karen says, you should be able to feel their ribs under a thin layer of fat (maybe 1/2 inch?). Also, at bath time when the hair is wet, you should be able to see a distinct "tuck up" behind the rib cage, the coke bottle look.

It is not uncommon for a young Havanese to be always hungry! That's a good sign! A sick dog usually will stop eating. The trick is to feed them enough to keep them healthy but not so much that they put on too much weight. The proper weight is a function of your dogs activity level, bone structure, and build. Rudy appears to be doing just great. Be sure and mix his kibble with some water to prevent dehydration. Keep up the good work!

Ricky's Popi

Oye, amigo Rudi :wave: yu wanna hab a hot dog eating contest? su siempre tengo hambre amigo, Ricky Ricardo :hungry:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

M&J said:


> So many vets are different. Ours said 1/4 cup three times a day. I have seen many that are at 1/4 cup twice a day and some 1 cup a day. Why such differences for the same breed? :frusty:


It depends somewhat on age. When Kodi was a puppy, and growing, he got 1/4 cup three times a day. On his own, he dropped the mid-day meal, and has stayed on the same amount since then.

But people have different needs for caloric intake, just as animals do. This is based partly on size, (and this breed can vary tremendously in size!!!) but also on metabolism. Some people have a "hollow leg" and can eat whatever they want without getting fat, while others of us gain weight if food is passed over our heads.  Dogs are no different. It also makes a difference how much exercise. Also, even if you just feed kibble, and many of us don't, different kibbles have different caloric content, so 1/4 cup of one doesn't equal 1/4 cup of another.

The bottom line is that you have to fine-tune the amount they get based on their physical condition, not based on an specific measure or recommendation.


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## M&J (Mar 1, 2016)

Ha ha....and our vet said absolutely no raw foods or boiled chicken or fish or lean meats like loin. Green beans and veggies are cool but no meats. I looked at him like WTH :crazy:.....everyone on here feeds it and recommends it. I like the facility but they push what they sell and nothing else so I am not big on their diet stuff but the medical vet care is TOP NOTCH!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I can't add much to Karen's excellent advice except to tell you my experience with Ricky. Ricky weighed about 12 pounds at one year. Ricky was and still is "always hungry" Currently he eats Honest Kitchen at mealtime, 1/2 cup in the morning and 1/4 cup in the evening. Throughout the day he gets training treats like Pioneer Naturals kibble, dehydrated banana slices (we have our own dehydrator), frozen blueberries and for snacks, steamed vegetables like cauliflower, zucchini, carrots, broccoli, etc. So in total he gets 1 to 1 1/4 cups of nutritious food a day. Today he is a 15 pound lean and mean playing machine! I can easily feel his ribs but he has a nice layer of fat over the top. His torso is the classic coke bottle shape. Oh, and thanks to Karen for the tip, Ricky ALWAYS gets a small cookie when I put him to bed at night in his crate!
> 
> Meal time for Ricky (morning and late afternoon) is always a "find it" game. I hide his food bowl in a different spot in the house at each meal. I put him in a sit/stay, hide the food and then release him. He then runs around the house like a maniac, using his nose to smell out the hidden prize, his dinner. He loves this game and we accomplish a lot of different positive training techniques at the same time!
> 
> ...


Mostly great advice here, but NOT 1/2" of fat!!! That would be whale blubber on a hundred pound dog!  MAYBE an 1/8" of fat... it's probably less. These are SMALL dogs... even the "big" ones like Ricky and Kodi!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

M&J said:


> Ha ha....and our vet said absolutely no raw foods or boiled chicken or fish or lean meats like loin.


I believe your Vet said that to be on the safe side because some dogs are allergic to some kinds of protein. I would give some of these proteins a try and see how your doggie reacts.



> everyone on here feeds it and recommends it. I like the facility but they push what they sell and nothing else so I am not big on their diet stuff but the medical vet care is TOP NOTCH!!!


Actually there are several dogs on this forum that have food allergies to certain foods. Fortunately, Ricky is not one of them.

Yes, some Vets "push" a certain brand of kibble that they just happen to carry in their office. Choose carefully

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> Mostly great advice here, but NOT 1/2" of fat!!! That would be whale blubber on a hundred pound dog!  MAYBE an 1/8" of fat... it's probably less. These are SMALL dogs... even the "big" ones like Ricky and Kodi!


:grin2: Karen, I'm sure you are right. I didn't know for sure (I decided not to do exploratory surgery on Ricky to find out :wink2 that's why I put a "?" after my guess. I was thinking that 1/2" is about half of what I have on my ribs!!!!!!! So 1/8" or less it is!

Ricky's Popi


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

ignore your vet re food. One cannot go by cups to find out how much YOUR dog needs. One cup of food A can be 40 percent more calories than food B. Once you know how many calories your dog needs at his specific stage you can greatly improve on his diet by adding some quality foods. Freeze dried is an excellent choice. But you have to figure out the calories of what you're adding, Here is an article on enhancing kibble, Enhancing a Kibble Diet - The Possible Canine 
If you add more than 25 percent new calories you should consult with a nutritionist like Catherine or Sabine, in order to keep it BALANCED,


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Reminder: Dog food companies are in the business of selling dog food so the amount they recommend you feed your pup may be too much. Please use your own judgement to determine the right amount; otherwise, you could end up with a pudgy/fat/obese dog.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I believe your Vet said that to be on the safe side because some dogs are allergic to some kinds of protein. I would give some of these proteins a try and see how your doggie reacts.
> 
> Actually there are several dogs on this forum that have food allergies to certain foods. Fortunately, Ricky is not one of them.
> 
> ...


But that still wouldn't make sense. IF a dog has a food intolerance, then, certainly, you want to get to the bottom of it. But you don't restrict a diet unnecessarily in a dog who hasn't shown signs of needing it. A varied diet is the healthiest as long as a dog can tolerate it. ... And restricting protein, in general, is crazy.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> :grin2: Karen, I'm sure you are right. I didn't know for sure (I decided not to do exploratory surgery on Ricky to find out :wink2 that's why I put a "?" after my guess. I was thinking that 1/2" is about half of what I have on my ribs!!!!!!! So 1/8" or less it is!
> 
> Ricky's Popi


ound: But I suspect that even a lean mean fighting machine version of you would be AT LEAST 10x Ricky's weight... Probably quite a bit more! 

Just didn't want people to feel their dogs, not feel 1/2" of blubber and start trying to feed them up! :laugh:


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## M&J (Mar 1, 2016)

krandall said:


> But that still wouldn't make sense. IF a dog has a food intolerance, then, certainly, you want to get to the bottom of it. But you don't restrict a diet unnecessarily in a dog who hasn't shown signs of needing it. A varied diet is the healthiest as long as a dog can tolerate it. ... And restricting protein, in general, is crazy.


That's why when the Doc said what he did I looked at him like...:doh: really?


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> But that still wouldn't make sense. IF a dog has a food intolerance, then, certainly, you want to get to the bottom of it. But you don't restrict a diet unnecessarily in a dog who hasn't shown signs of needing it. A varied diet is the healthiest as long as a dog can tolerate it. ... And restricting protein, in general, is crazy.


I agree, we don't have the reasoning behind the Vet's recommendation, so we don't have the whole story. But I don't think the Vet was recommending against restricting protein, he was just recommending the protein (kibble) that he sells. :grin2:


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> ound: But I suspect that even a lean mean fighting machine version of you would be AT LEAST 10x Ricky's weight... Probably quite a bit more!


Have you been sneaking a look at my scale?! :surprise:

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I agree, we don't have the reasoning behind the Vet's recommendation, so we don't have the whole story. But I don't think the Vet was recommending against restricting protein, he was just recommending the protein (kibble) that he sells. :grin2:


Except kibble isn't all protein... Or even mostly protein in many cases...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Have you been sneaking a look at my scale?! :surprise:
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Ha! No... But I think you mentioned being retirement age, and Something you once said made me think you are not short. So, unless you are skeletal, I figured it was unlikely that you were less than 150 lbs!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> So, unless you are skeletal, I figured it was unlikely that you were less than 150 lbs!


 ound:ound:ound:ound:!


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## Teddy Bear (Apr 11, 2015)

davetgabby said:


> ignore your vet re food. One cannot go by cups to find out how much YOUR dog needs. One cup of food A can be 40 percent more calories than food B. Once you know how many calories your dog needs at his specific stage you can greatly improve on his diet by adding some quality foods. Freeze dried is an excellent choice. But you have to figure out the calories of what you're adding, Here is an article on enhancing kibble, Enhancing a Kibble Diet - The Possible Canine
> If you add more than 25 percent new calories you should consult with a nutritionist like Catherine or Sabine, in order to keep it BALANCED,


I'd have to agree with Dave on this!
Think vets don't always have the best knowledge on pet nutrition.

When Teddy was sick, I asked 4 independent vets about what food they recommend... they were all contradictory!
2 even recommended he be fed avocado regularly (even though all my online research claims its bad for him)!

Teddy's appetite increased alot when he was between 8-12 months so I think Rudy is going through a normal growth phase. I think he does need more food than when he was 3 month but its best to confirm the amount with a nutritionist.


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## GlenK (Feb 9, 2016)

Rocky is 4 1/2 months now and eats like a freed POW!! I called the breeder and she said stay with 1/4 cup Royal Canin 3 times a day. That's the food they raise all their Havanese on. Our vet agreed with that schedule. He eats his 1/4 cup in about 15-20 seconds and looks at me like, that's it??

Based on some feedback on here I now add 1 teaspoon of yogart to his breakfast. (this has seemed to help reduce his interest in eating deer poop)

You also have to throw in a few worms he eats on his walks. He's fast, I can't catch them all!!

But I've decided to just stick with this routine for now as he's a healthy growing boy and is getting bigger every day. No sign of body fat, he's lean and not mean!!! 

So I've really decided to just go with my gut AND Rocky's gut and gauge his body's development and make any adjustments as needed. I have often wondered exactly how much it would take to fill this guy up. He's never once walked away from a bowl with any food left in it.


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

Maybe a slow feeder or a Kong will turn his meal into a more leisurely and filling experience and you won't get that "please sir, can I have some more" look.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Eveningpiper said:


> Maybe a slow feeder or a Kong will turn his meal into a more leisurely and filling experience and you won't get that "please sir, can I have some more" look.


Actually, I WANT my dogs to get their meals done quickly. It's normal and natural.


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

krandall said:


> Actually, I WANT my dogs to get their meals done quickly. It's normal and natural.


I had understood that dogs who eat too fast can get bloat and other digestive problems.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> Actually, I WANT my dogs to get their meals done quickly. It's normal and natural.


Interesting comment Karen, why do you say that?

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Eveningpiper said:


> I had understood that dogs who eat too fast can get bloat and other digestive problems.


Bloat can be a problem in large breed, deep bodied dogs. It would be extremely unusual in a toy breed.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Interesting comment Karen, why do you say that?
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Because it IS normal and natural, and I have better things to do than stand their waiting for them to finish up. 

I don't worry about the "entertainment value" of meals, because my dogs are kept pretty busy with training, walks in the woods and play.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

it's natural for dogs to eat without chewing and the speed with which they eat varies dramatically. A lot is based on neonatal experiences and proximity to other dogs. Valued food is eaten faster than lower valued foods quite often. The important thing is to recognize when your dog is eating faster than normal in order to watch out for signs of resource guarding. A dog should always be allowed to eat in comfort with no threats real or perceived . My Molly eats very slowly and I think she actually savours her food lol.


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