# HELP!!! Teeth - How long is Too long?



## Pamela Rolla (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi

I have a pup that is a little over 4 months old - still no pre molars and his K9's have just came in  since I brought him home at 8 weeks old, I have taken him to two local vets for his lack of teeth that said it was very odd to not have teeth in (average once a month). Today I took him to a better vet, out of town, more canine oriented and she referred me to a specialist for dental x rays and possible tissue removal or??? The swelling is pretty bad, and last week he became droopy drawers (just not him self) and was put on amoxicillin for possible infection from his teeth. 

I bought him specifically to show and breed - and now at a point where I am wondering if he is even appropriate to breed - could this be a genetic problem? 

or is this a problem at all? I understand some lines are slow to go getting teeth - but how slow is too slow? These vets are canine oriented but not super Havanese oriented.

Please Help Me!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Have you talked to your breeder about this? What did they say?


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## Pamela Rolla (Mar 26, 2012)

yes I did - last week before today's appointment, she said "her pups are always gone before his age and not been a problem that she knows of" 

even the specialist said this is not a common thing (on the phone).................. did not offer any genetic awareness.

I am getting ready to call her again now; need to get my thoughts clear and know what I want to ask of her - I am thinking a replacement would be the best thing at this point - the specialist would be extremely expensive and no guarantee he will pull through.  and on the out side chance it is genetic - I sure do not want anyone else to have this same experience.

Thanks

I am so sad!!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

She's NEVER kept one of her own pups to show or breed? That seems highly unusual.


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## Pamela Rolla (Mar 26, 2012)

Yes it does.  she did offer a replacement when one is available or cash back when she gets him sold. I am sure she means after taking him to her vet for "repair" 

She said just a freek thing - sometimes things happen. 

I will return him in two weeks when I can make the trip AGAIN  keep him on amoxicillin until then, and when we do meet will request cash back after sale - as I do not have the heart or stomach to risk this again. 

Thanks


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## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

Pamela Rolla said:


> Yes it does.  she did offer a replacement when one is available or cash back when she gets him sold. I am sure she means after taking him to her vet for "repair"
> 
> She said just a freek thing - sometimes things happen.
> 
> ...


Very sad. It's hard to give him/her up.

Did the breeder say what he/she is going to do with the puppy after you return it?


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## mamacjt (Aug 23, 2011)

Oh my! I feel bad for everyone in this situation! You, the breeder and especially the puppy! But, even at 8 weeks, the puppy should have had some teeth. I would think the breeder would have thought so too! Shame on her/him for putting you through this!


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## Pamela Rolla (Mar 26, 2012)

I am very concerned for the pup!!! I think she will do the right thing by him - and I do pray for a great out come for him. I have had a real hard time with this - but some how knew in my gut after the 2nd dental exam that this would be the out come  just super hard to choke down!! 

I have already been mislead twice by breeders in this area - ended up paying vet bills and selling as pet quality. Then this time bought from out of state - thus being S/E MO and me being new prompted that decission - paid way more out of pocket for the purchase - and now this.... 

Honest I am just sick!!

Thanks


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I need to study teeth because I herd about some having six something and some four something. I looked in maddies back part and she seems like she is missing some. She also had dubbed front teeth and had to have some pulled. So maybe it is a gene that is flawed.
Maybe you can find a Havanese club to join and go to shows. Its much better to be able to look at different lines and decide a show potential than to just find anyone who will sell full papered. The process may take up to a year but its worth it if showing and breeding is what you really want to do.


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## Pamela Rolla (Mar 26, 2012)

Yes I agree with you 100% Suzi  I have been looking for a club / training classes in my area for a while now and the closest AKC training club I have been able to find is a 2 1/2 hour drive each way. I guess I live in the sticks - haha The local clubs are ACA and MPBA - both of which I have been guarded against from an HCA member  and it seems when people find out I in live in MO the stigma attached does effect the contact - MO does not have the best reputation for breeders.

On a more positive note I am going to attend an AKC show May 5th & 6th in St Louis  I will attend the ACA shows in Poplar Bluff also  I picked up a flyer from Pet Co yesterday and they have some puppy classes - they are in Cape Girardeau which is much closer 45 minutes  I am attending the MPBA meetings once a month strictly for the speakers and the knowledge I might gain :/ Honestly I am considering biting the "gas" bullet and making the 5 hour drive for the one hour meeting in Jefferson County; they sound great on their web site, offer tons of classes and might be able to make some doggy friends. (being a suburb of St Louis may present a different out look 

The genetics involved with my male is what stops me from continuing dental care. I just have a feeling that even if I fork out 1000's of dollars to correct his mouth his pups may present this same issue - and it seems genetics are a real open ended question, no one knows for sure.  so it's not that I am dropping the ball on him as much as it is keeping my focus and insisting on getting what I paid for "this time" as I am pretty soft and tend to "fall in love" very easy - and at my own expense sometimes.  

I am in the; research and refine stage.  I am not disheartened - determined to keep pushing forward - and become a reputable show breeder in S/E MO  eventually it will come together. 

Thanks for responding


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

I have seen maltese with such problems here, but eventually they got all their teeth a bit later than ordinary pups. When I went to pick Roki from the breeder's he showed me his teeth, bite, paws ... went over whole Roki's body. He was nine weeks old and he had all his baby teeth. 
I doubt the the breeder you bought your baby from is serious or reputable. Otherwise he/she would warn you that there might be a problem with teeth and that boy is more pet than show quality. 
Other thing is that people who are looking for true show/breeding quality pup would wait untill they are at least five months old. At that age you can be sure that pup has good perspective as show dog. Lady that breeds havanese here waited until the boy she wanted to buy was 6 months old and then she went to Germany to check him and pick him up. Maybe you should do that as well if you really want to go into showing and breeding. 
I feel really sorry for little guy because I think his future is VERY uncertain and gloomy. I pray for him. He is so small and helpless and - yes - sick and probably in lot of pain!
Best wishes 
Marina&Roki


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Pamela Rolla said:


> Yes I agree with you 100% Suzi  I have been looking for a club / training classes in my area for a while now and the closest AKC training club I have been able to find is a 2 1/2 hour drive each way. I guess I live in the sticks - haha The local clubs are ACA and MPBA - both of which I have been guarded against from an HCA member  and it seems when people find out I in live in MO the stigma attached does effect the contact - MO does not have the best reputation for breeders.
> 
> On a more positive note I am going to attend an AKC show May 5th & 6th in St Louis  I will attend the ACA shows in Poplar Bluff also  I picked up a flyer from Pet Co yesterday and they have some puppy classes - they are in Cape Girardeau which is much closer 45 minutes  I am attending the MPBA meetings once a month strictly for the speakers and the knowledge I might gain :/ Honestly I am considering biting the "gas" bullet and making the 5 hour drive for the one hour meeting in Jefferson County; they sound great on their web site, offer tons of classes and might be able to make some doggy friends. (being a suburb of St Louis may present a different out look
> 
> ...


 That all sounds really good. My Havanese club does a lot of communication on line. We also have about five meeting or so a year. If I was to do it all over again I would do exactly what your doing. The cost involved in showing and breeding far out weighs the cost of the puppy. So one really needs to start with the best possible show potential puppy you can find. Most reputable breeders would be so much more inclined to mentor you and help you in your journey. I'm fortunate to have a group of really experienced show breeders and so far all of them have been really supportive and helpful to me. I have put my journey on hold because I don't have the time or finances to became a breeder. My new plan is to but it on the back burner and maybe someday go forward again It sure would be fun to have a litter of puppy's.


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