# allergies?????



## Ruthi (Nov 10, 2011)

I know some of you have havs that have allergies. Thats a lot of haves, lol. Anyhow, what do you give your pups for it? Do you give them Benedril? Can I get some over the counter? Gabby is scratching and chewing on her feet, and I am sure it is allergies. The pollen falling around here is horrible. She is on the road with hubby right now, and he says it is getting bad for her. I need to tell him what to give her. Thanks yall. 








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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

My girl takes benedryl twice a day one third of a reg. pill, she takes it for a flea allergy one flea bit sets her off, my Lhasa also has had a flea allergy for years. The reason she was biting her feet was first because of the flea allergy it caused interdigital Pyoderma with secondary yeast infection the yeast is also very itchy, we saw our reg Vet it did not clear up (he though it was an atopic allergy), later with a referral to a Dermatologist at the state Vet school we went there. There was just no way I was willing to let my dog be miserable, the itching was making me nuts, imagine my poor pup. The problem is often the vet will try a number of things and sometimes they will work, when all else fails they use a steroid...my dog is young so it was important to me to know what the problem was. I got lucky they diagnosed her problem quickly. She no longer chews her paws her coat is better then ever, pyoderma can come back in humid weather so I was her feet twice a week with special shampoo. Before you start any medication even over the counter (benedryl is otc) see your Vet and rule out other things or have your Vet tell you the dose of an otc that is safe for your pet. The Benedryl for my girl is for itching caused by a flea or two not to treat the allergy or the Pyoderma, if an allergy get really bad your vet can have an allergic reaction, this is rare but my Lhasa had them many times. Please see your Vet first.

She was on antibotics for about 16 weeks with a anti yeast/fungal pill and baths twice a week and foot baths in wet humid weather, it did not cost much it just took time and patience.


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## ShelbysMama (Jun 15, 2011)

Benadryl doesn't do much for my Havanese. She had to get a steroid shot, which really helped her. The shots last for weeks. My vet told me that bendrayl doesn't work for some dogs, just like it doesn't affect some people. If your dog isn't drowsy, you know it's not working. There is also some prescription allergy medicine that works better than benadyl without the drowsiness. Cortisone cream works great for skin irritations.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

I agree that you should take your dog to your vet, and ask what might be done for the allergies.

My vet prescribed for Camellia, any of three different antihistamines:

1) Cetirizine hydrochloride (generic Reactine) - 10 mg. (a full human dose!) to be given once daily (it's apparently a time-release pill). She prescribed 7.5 mg, but said the 10 mg was okay.

2) Chlorpheniramine (generic Chlortripolon), 2 mg (half a 4 mg tablet) up to three times daily. Again, this resembles a human dose, though humans might take 4 mg three times daily.

3) Diphenhydramine hydrochloride (generic Benadryl); 20-40 mg up to three times daily. I got the 25 mg tablets, and rarely, give her 25 mg; more often, 37.5 mg (a caplet and a half).

Camellia weighs 8.7 Kg (about 19 pounds); she's a BIG Hav! Doses for smaller Havs might be somewhat less.

I tried the Reactine first. Kept at it for a few months, but it didn't seem to do that good a job. Next, I tried the Chlortripolon, and that didn't seem to work very well either. So then I tried the Benadryl - and THAT does help, quite a lot.

My vet was very enthusiastic about the Reactine, and maybe that would work for your dog.

If you can possibly avoid using steroids, please do, as there can be long-term consequences, including a tendency to develop diabetes - and - I had a diabetic dog; you don't want that! It's a lot of work, and fairly expensive to manage (though diabetes in dogs is a very manageable disease, and need not shorten the dog's life - but the scheduling is rough for the humans, because typically, you need to feed every 12 hours, no food between meals, and inject insulin every 12 hours, shortly after feeding.

My vet pointed out to me that Camellia's allergic dermatitis (atopy) results from her missing the natural skin barrier against allergies that dogs and humans normally have. So I use a special shampoo and spray, bathing once a week (religiously!) and spraying after the bath, and then once mid-week, between baths. The shampoo and spray replace the missing skin barrier!

Anyway, I'm suggesting you might talk this over with your vet.

MUMMY! It's past bedtime! (00)

So it is, Camellia; I'm coming! ;-^

Mon, 19 Mar 2012 22:12:54 (PDT)

Maybe your dog has something like that - a missing skin barrier! It's explained here (my vet gave me this link):

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...P=PRINT&A=1535

The shampoo and spray I use are by DOUXO, and my vet-insurance company, Trupanion, is covering 90% of the cost for me. It's expensive here in Canada, where I think you can only get it from vets. I've put in three claims so far, and they encourage me to keep submitting claims, and will pay forever! (for the rest of Camellia's life). It's the calming shampoo and spray.

http://www.douxo.us/dermatology/douxo-dermatology-dogs-allergies-shampoo.html

If you click on the Product Datasheet, it tells you how to use the stuff.

If you're in the U.S., though, you might be able to get it fairly cheaply, at amazon.com.

You might want to check out the possibility, with your vet, that your Hav is missing that skin barrier! The shampoo, spray, and antihistamines combined are working well for Camellia; keeping her quite comfortable most of the time.


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## Ruthi (Nov 10, 2011)

Wow, this is all confusing. As I said she is on the road with hubby right now, and he is working. I will see them in a couple of weeks, and there would be a couple of days there we could see a vet, before we head out again. Meantime, I think I will call the vet and see if there is anything he can give her now. Thanks


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## Ruthi (Nov 10, 2011)

I just called my vet, who is old school,........small town. Anyhow, first thing he recommended was Prednisone. I just googled it, and it sounds like a pretty scary drug. At this point, I dont know what to do. I am wondering if I should change her food to see if it could be a problem?


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Sometimes when the allergy gets out of hand you have to do a prednisone taper, this helps calm it down so you can treat the symptoms...there is no cure for allergies but they can be controlled, the object is to not get to the point that you need prednisone. Dogs do better then humans with prednisone, but long term use has horrible consequences. The Cortisone shot is sometimes effective but over time the allergy gets worse and you need to inject more times a year make no mistake it is a steriod. Allergy meds do not become ineffective like pain meds they quit working because the allergy gets worse and they can not keep up with the symptons. Since your husband is on the road he can start washing your pups feet at the end of the day the feet and noise is how our dogs absorb things. As soon as your pup is home please go to the Vet it is a long summer ahead.

Prednisone is not a quick fix it and steriods are very powerful drugs, they have a place but not for long term use. My Lhasa has had allergies for most of this life (all the time I have had him) his have been so bad he has had to have IV prednisone a few times over the course of his life, today he has Addison's this is because the prednisone use caused his adernal glands to shut down, also you may have read two weeks ago he developed secondary glaucoma the eye doctor now believes it was due to the prednisone he needs to treat the Addisons. This is not common but there are many other consequences of long term steriod use.

I know this stuff seems overwelming but if you are informed in the beginning you and your Vet can come up with a long term plan that you can live with, the key is finding something that works and sticking with it, failure of these medicines to control allergies are mostly due to non-complience, our lives are busy sometimes we forget esp. when the dog is doing well. Bendryl and other antihistamines take time to work...they do not work over night and sometimes one works where another does not, also if the allergy is raging then you need something like prednisone to calm it down so the antihistamine can do its job. Also foot bathing and bathing with special shampoos are important part of the process, also depending on the shampoo the Vet suggests, you need to think about flea control, Boo Boo uses a shampoo called Comfort it doses not strip topical flea control off your dog, it works like the one Carol uses for Camellia. All the best in finding something that works for your pup.


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## Ruthi (Nov 10, 2011)

Is the foot bath necessary if she doesnt even go outside? She pottys indoors, and we dont take her out much, not at all when we are on the road. Also, could it be her food?


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

The foot bath is because dogs absorb things through their feet not skin, like we do, it's what we bring into the house or car on out feet and clothes that gets on the dog. A foot bath on the road would be something like a wide mouth small coffee cut or bowl with 1 part white vinger and 4 parts water put one foot at a time (your really doing it for the parts that touch the ground) swish it around a minute and blot with a towel, it is easy and quick. Here in the south the pollen is bad right now and everywhere.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

I"d take Robbie's information to heart - good for you, Robbie. I agree with everything you said.

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:15:18 (PDT)


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## luv2bmomof4 (Feb 29, 2012)

I just spoke with Bellas vet on Friday about allergies (personally I didn't know that dogs could get them) but it was windy here one day and Bella got a runny nose, sneezing and she kept scratching after only going outside for a few min to potty. I gave her bath which helped but he said that I could have also just wiped her down with a wipe and put her in the bathroom with steam. He did say I could give her Benedryl I believe he said 1 ml for every pound of childrens liquid but it doesn't really relieve the symptoms but should relax her some. I haven't had the need to try it yet. He said if she got worse or I really felt as if she is in need we could talk about giving her something else but I think for now she is fine. Good luck.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

*Three-Glob (or Two-Glob) pilling method*



luv2bmomof4 said:


> I just spoke with Bellas vet on Friday about allergies (personally I didn't know that dogs could get them) but it was windy here one day and Bella got a runny nose, sneezing and she kept scratching after only going outside for a few min to potty. I gave her bath which helped but he said that I could have also just wiped her down with a wipe and put her in the bathroom with steam. He did say I could give her Benedryl I believe he said 1 ml for every pound of childrens liquid but it doesn't really relieve the symptoms but should relax her some. I haven't had the need to try it yet. He said if she got worse or I really felt as if she is in need we could talk about giving her something else but I think for now she is fine. Good luck.


I've done the children's liquid Benadryl in the past, many years ago - till the vets told me not to use it! Apparently the alcohol in it can be a danger to dogs. So now I use the caplets, and I cut them with a pill-cutter.

Then I use the Three-Glob technique to feed the bits of caplet.

Camellia, weighing about 19 pounds, gets 1.5 caplets of 25 mg each caplet. I put the caplet and half in a glob of canned dog food (same brand as I feed her dry). I also use a baby spoon.

First, I dip the baby spoon, pick up a glob of the food, put the caplet and half in the glob, and cover the pills up with what's on the spoon. Then I pull the glob off the spoon, and hold it in my hand, dip the spoon again, and pick up another glob of food.

This is actually the Two-Glob Technique, but I've used the Three-Glob Technique with earlier dogs.

Two-Glob method:

I hold out the glob with the pills, and, with the spoon and it's Glob right close by, feed the Pill-Glob; then immediately hold out the spoon, right in front of Camellia's nose. She takes the pills easily that way, and then goes after the Glob on the spoon, which requires some licking to finish.

Three-Glob Method

Glob One is Innocent; has no pills; it's fairly small. Glob 2 is loaded; I have it in my hand, and Glob Three is innocent again.

I feed Glob One, then, dog eager, Glob Two, while holding Glob 3 in very tempting position near my dog's nose.

So, Glob 1 tempts the dog and gets the dog started; Glob 2 usually disappears easily down the gullet, and Glob 3 confirms the whole process, making sure those pills get down the gullet!

When pills are to be given with food, I do this BEFORE feeding, to make absolutely sure those pills go down the gullet. and don't get spat out.

I do this on a clear area of the floor, so I can see if the dog spits the pill(s) out.

Some dogs are just too clever, and will extract the pills and hold them, and spit them out later, hiding them somewhere, but if the dog LOVES the canned food (as most dogs do), the Three-Glob technique should work well.

Part of the trick is to keep the dog from biting into a bitter pill; once a dog does that, things get really tricky. This is why I follow the loaded Glob absolutely immediately with an innocent Glob! It gets the pills down.

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:15:18 (PDT)


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## Ruthi (Nov 10, 2011)

wow, that is a good, thought out method.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Carol, I am glad you posted about the Benedryl we do not use the liquid either, Vet insists on caplets...safer. I use wet food also, I use a appetizer fork and all my guys get a turn it helps make for sure they gobble it all up...they don't want the others to grab what is theirs.
I live in the South it rained this morning and it is peak pollen season the gutters are full of gilded water, everything is yellow and the pines are droping their seed pods...yuck! We sleep with a cool humidifier at night and change the filters in the air every week in this season, it helps Boo Boo and me!!!


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

*The Glob Technique*



Ruthi said:


> wow, that is a good, thought out method.


Ruthi - it's tried and tested over many years with many dogs! Hasn't failed yet. ;-)

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:34:17 (PDT)


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

Robbie - I love how you do it - appetizer fork! and with other dogs wanting it too!

We are also deluged with pollen at the moment; from the alder, which is everywhere around here. Result - Camellia is shuffing (reverse-sneezing) just a bit, but we're keeping it under control with Benadrul (generic), and the baths and sprays with DOUXO calming shampoo and spray.

Today was Bath-Spray Day. And Camellia gets one more dose of Benadryl this evening. Then off to beddy-bye!

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:37:08 (PDT)


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## Ruthi (Nov 10, 2011)

So, Gabby weighs 9 lbs, and the vet suggested half of a 25 mg benadryl. Does that sound right. Carol, guess I am not up on this stuff. That is why I am always asking questions, lol.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ha! Carol, you are a riot! I am glad Kodi doesn't have such a discriminating palate! With him, all I need to do is fold a little strip of American Cheese in half, squeeze the pill in the middle and hand it to him. He swallows that cheese so fast he doesn't ever notice there is a pill in the middle!

Now the cat is a different story... No tricking her, so it's not worth trying. I just have to pry her mouth open, shove the pill into the back of her throat, then hold her mouth closed until I see her swallow.:biggrin1:


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Ruthi, Did your Vet say twice a day? My girl Misty gets 1/3th twice a day she weighs under 10pds, my Lhasa use to get 1/2 twice a day he weighted about 14pds at that time. My Vet is very conservetive, and he works with the Dermatologist we see over at state, 1/2 reg. pill could be right. When you have time and are in town please take your pup in that way if you are on the road the Vet will be better able to tell you what you need if your pet has a bad spell, getting the Vet to work for/with you will save expense down the road and help your pup not develop an out of control situation.


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## Ruthi (Nov 10, 2011)

He just told me how much i could give her. He didnt say how often. I guess I just assumed twice a day.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

*Benadryl - how many times a day?*



Ruthi said:


> So, Gabby weighs 9 lbs, and the vet suggested half of a 25 mg benadryl. Does that sound right. Carol, guess I am not up on this stuff. That is why I am always asking questions, lol.


Ruthi - I'm a great believer in asking questions! I've pestered vets so much you would hardly believe it! There was one stage, when I was raising my first puppy, when I'd call the vet once a day! (And take answers from the techs.) They were very patient with me. That was before we had full-blown Internet available.

About dosing with antihistamines, this link my vet gave me indicates dogs can be on them very long-term, and my vets said the same.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...P=PRINT&A=1535

On the handout my vet gave me, she suggests three times a day for Benadryl (or Chlortripolon). I see Robbie does twice a day.

If it were me, I'd phone my vet - I'm still not afraid to be a pest! - and ASK how many times a day. Best to follow your vet's instructions, or, at least, work very closely with your vet. That's true for any good vet. If a vet is really failing you, then a second opinion might be a good idea.

You might want to check in on Dr.Nancy Kay's blog - all kinds of interesting topics there. There are links to her web site and blog here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/links.php

I hope you can bring the allergies under some kind of control!

Wed, 21 Mar 2012 17:51:02 (PDT)


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## Ruthi (Nov 10, 2011)

Thank you so much Carol. Our vet is really old school. He is older, small town, bout ready to retire. Very helpful, and willing to help out, but I know he is not up to speed, lol. I was told Benedryl 2 times a day, so, we will try that and see what happens for now. If no improvement, I will take her to a vet when hubby gets home. I sure miss the little stinker. I leave Friday to go to Colorado. My sisters hubby is a minister, late 70s, bad health, and he is preaching his last service Sunday. My daughter, her two boys and I are going to surprise him and show up for the service last minute. It will be such a surprise. I am excited.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

Oh, Ruthi; you are SO sweet! Actually I find I expect that of all the humans here! After all, who but very sweet humans would have Havanese? (hahaha!)

I think it's wonderful you're going to surprise your sister's hubby that way! Big trip, to Colorado from Georgia!

I know what you mean about missing your dog! So, when your dog gets home, then you might seek out a second opinion if need be (if you don't get the allergies under reasonably good control).

Rooting for you! Big hugs,

Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:24:23 (PDT)


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## Ruthi (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks Carol. Yes, you are right about humans who own havanese. They are the sweetest dogs around, so, the humans have to match, lol.


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