# agility question



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Do you recommend slow and go or running contacts? Shama is so fast that I'm concerned I won't be able to stay ahead of her if we do running contacts, but my trainer says training slow and go is very challenging. Thoughts?


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Karen knows more on the topic than I do (she was the one who advised me on this), but 2 on 2 off type contacts are not recommended for smaller dogs with longer (?) backs. The sudden stop, which is really nothing to a dog that fills the entire contact zone like a collie, can put a lot of pressure on the back, especially on the steep decline of the a-frame. 

Nino has done running contacts ever since we began picking up speed (when it was slow going, we made them a bit slower so the concept of hitting the yellow was clear). A smooth running contact is something beautiful and can give you a bit of a leg up on the competitors who do a 2o2o. To compensate for the speed, I work on distance at the more complicated sections and really sprint on the fast sections of the course. If you can, always use the 5 seconds on the pause table to get a lead out, and make use of the allowed lead out at the beginning of the course.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Do you recommend slow and go or running contacts? Shama is so fast that I'm concerned I won't be able to stay ahead of her if we do running contacts, but my trainer says training slow and go is very challenging. Thoughts?


Do you mean "Stopped contacts"? I've never heard of "slow and go".

My vet has been very insistent that I teach mine running contacts. She is a sports medicine and rehab vet. She feels that stopped contacts are too jarring on the spines of longer backed breeds like Havanese. It DOES mean that you need to learn rear crosses and distance handling with fast dogs.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Good tips, Sophie!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> Do you mean "Stopped contacts"? I've never heard of "slow and go".


From my trainer's notes . . .

There are basically three main choices for your dog's contact behavior (with variations available for each):
o A complete stop with a "2On/2Off Position" until the dog is released (variation may include 4on for
small dogs on teeter)
o A "Slow and Go" where you need to assist your dog by being in close proximity
o A true "Running Contact" with no slow down (and no "leaping")

The advantages/disadvantages of a complete stop in a 2On/2Off Position:
o Clear criteria for dog; dog will rarely miss a contact - this is a very reliable method
o Allows handler to get into position for next obstacle (very big advantage for handlers who are not fast
athletes, especially on the Dog Walk)
o Although the end result is very clear criteria for your dog (as long as handler is consistent with the
criteria) the training takes a bit more time. The dog must hold position until released no matter what
the handler is doing.
o Coming to a complete stop and having the dog hold position until released adds time to your run
o Coming to a complete stop from a run can be hard on the dog's shoulders (severity depends on
individual dog's structure, speed, etc.)

The advantages/disadvantages of a "Slow and Go" contact:
o Relatively easy to train - it is a modified (relaxed) 2on/2off (where the dog isn't asked to hold position
until released)
o Doesn't take as much time on course as a complete stop in a 2on/2off
o May be more motivating for a lower drive dog, not having to stop completely.
o Not as clear of criteria for dog, therefore you may not get as consistent of a behavior - expect more
"misses" from the dog
o Handler must be in close proximity to dog to "babysit" the end behavior, helping the dog slow down
using deceleration

The advantages/disadvantages of a "Running Contact" are:
o No loss of time on course to stop and restart the momentum of your dog
o Easier on dogs' joints
o Very hard to train - expect a lot of leaps over the contact zone
o Very difficult for handler to be able to get into correct position for the next obstacle on the course
(especially on the Dog Walk)
o This is a very advanced behavior, and is not taught within the context of this course

Seems like I could start with the "slow and go" and work toward running contact . . .


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The slow and go seems like your best option if she won't teach a running contact. I guess, since it's all I've taught, that I don't see what's so hard about teaching it. I also don't think, if it's properly taught, that there is any greater chance of missed contacts as 2 on 2 off (stopped contacts). I CAn see how the slow and go would be hardest to "explain" to the dog.

For running contacts, we teach them with a target, placed on the ground several feet away from the base of the obstacle. This makes them focus on running DOWN the whole length of the obstacle to get to the tareget, and have you give them the treat. None of mine have had ANY problem learning that they need to stay in the obstacle to the end when taught this way.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

She will teach any of the three options. She is just asking that we have a plan for our contacts. She said that the advanced instructors have noticed that the students don't seem to have a clear plan in mind for our contacts. I thought I might start with "slow and go" and work up to "running." It sounds like you think I should just declare running as my plan from this point forward.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> She will teach any of the three options. She is just asking that we have a plan for our contacts. She said that the advanced instructors have noticed that the students don't seem to have a clear plan in mind for our contacts. I thought I might start with "slow and go" and work up to "running." It sounds like you think I should just declare running as my plan from this point forward.


That would be my choice. Easier on the back of our dogs, and faster, if you put the work into learning to handle it properly, once you are competing.


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