# Pet Health Insurance



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I know nothing about it other than what I just read in the LCP thread.

I'm starting this one just for information for everyone.

Anything anyone knows about it, please post. With what seem to be outrageous costs for some things, it's looking more, and more like it's a good gamble for some owners.

Karen's post about requiring it for the first two years is worthwhile to discuss.


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## NotAMuggle (Dec 4, 2020)

I had Piper enrolled in Healthy Paws before she even came home. I read that it's good to do it early because there is a two-week waiting period for it to kick in, so the idea is for the waiting period to be over by the time you get your pup (god forbid anything crazy happens). It's only about $23 a month. I like having it to be extra safe. It doesn't cover any routine procedures like shots, annuals, physicals, etc. but you can submit a claim if you ever need an x-ray or antibiotics or if there's an injury or illness or surgery needed down the line I believe.

I think it makes sense for us because the monthly premium is fairly cheap since we got her enrolled early, but the math may make more sense to just make a separate "pet emergency fund" on your own if you're quoted at a much higher premium because your pet is older and has a few conditions and was never enrolled before. I think premiums vary by breed too - my sister was quoted at $45 a month when she was looking into it for her Corgi puppy, so she decided to just set her own $$$ aside for any future pet medical issues.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

NotAMuggle said:


> I had Piper enrolled in Healthy Paws before she even came home. I read that it's good to do it early because there is a two-week waiting period for it to kick in, so the idea is for the waiting period to be over by the time you get your pup (god forbid anything crazy happens). It's only about $23 a month. I like having it to be extra safe. It doesn't cover any routine procedures like shots, annuals, physicals, etc. but you can submit a claim if you ever need an x-ray or antibiotics or if there's an injury or illness or surgery needed down the line I believe.
> 
> I think it makes sense for us because the monthly premium is fairly cheap since we got her enrolled early, but the math may make more sense to just make a separate "pet emergency fund" on your own if you're quoted at a much higher premium because your pet is older and has a few conditions and was never enrolled before. I think premiums vary by breed too - my sister was quoted at $45 a month when she was looking into it for her Corgi puppy, so she decided to just set her own $$$ aside for any future pet medical issues.


The waiting period is why I enrolled my pups in the AKC free month of insurance when I registered them for each owner! Most insurance companies will not allow you to enroll a dog you don't own yet. How did you manage that?

Another thing that breeders should look into is that SOME insurance companies offer discounts if the entire litter is enrolled with the same company. But these offers come and go, and none were offering it at the time my litter was ready to go. So it's annoying and time consuming to sort it out.

Another thing I found was that it was almost USELESS to try to do research to help my puppy buyers. It might have helped my two puppy buyers that were geographically close to me, although even with them I suspect their rates might have been different, since one lives in a very affluent town, and the rates that vets charge in an area are factored in) but rates quoted for me would have been useless for my two puppies going out of state. This, unfortunately, is something where everyone kind of has to do their own homework. 

FOR SURE, the sooner you enroll, the cheaper it is. I can tell you that what swayed me were:

Reports from friends that the company payed out quickly without dragging their heels
The ability to choose your premium by deciding on your deductible. I was willing to take the risk on a higher deductible, for a lower monthly premium.
Make SURE that the company covers the genetic and congental problems likely to come up in YOUR breed. some are remarkably sneaky about disallowing those!
Because I am a big believer in rehab, I liked the my insurer allowed a rider for rehab services for only a couple of dollars a month. Those services can REALLY add up if you need to take your dog in for underwater treadmill work twice a week!


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## NotAMuggle (Dec 4, 2020)

krandall said:


> The waiting period is why I enrolled my pups in the AKC free month of insurance when I registered them for each owner! Most insurance companies will not allow you to enroll a dog you don't own yet. How did you manage that?
> 
> Another thing that breeders should look into is that SOME insurance companies offer discounts if the entire litter is enrolled with the same company. But these offers come and go, and none were offering it at the time my litter was ready to go. So it's annoying and time consuming to sort it out.
> 
> ...


From what I remember there's a waiting period for injuries/illness (i think 15 days) and ALSO a requirement to get the dog you're enrolling examined by a vet within 15 days of enrollment. The way i timed it I got Piper examined on day 15 (the last day of the wait period and the last day of the exam requirement). So far they seem pretty good, I filed one claim so far (vet visit for a coldlike bug) and they paid out within a couple days of filing.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

NotAMuggle said:


> From what I remember there's a waiting period for injuries/illness (i think 15 days) and ALSO a requirement to get the dog you're enrolling examined by a vet within 15 days of enrollment. The way i timed it I got Piper examined on day 15 (the last day of the wait period and the last day of the exam requirement). So far they seem pretty good, I filed one claim so far (vet visit for a coldlike bug) and they paid out within a couple days of filing.


Mine didn't have any requirement for an "extra" exam, and my contract required that the puppies be examined within a week of them going to their new homes. (which is a rather long time under normal circumstances, but... Covid!) And, of course, most people are bringing their puppies in for regular well puppy visits, so it's usually easy to get an exam done if needed. But it also sounds like you have a "wellness" plan, which I don't have.


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## Havanese Dreams (Jun 6, 2021)

I’m still on the fence about pet insurance vs. self-funding emergencies. What are the odds that a pet will have a large enough bill in the first year or two to justify the cost of a premium/deductible/copay? Or do those of you who’ve opted to get pet insurance consider it peace of mind?


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Havanese Dreams said:


> I’m still on the fence about pet insurance vs. self-funding emergencies. What are the odds that a pet will have a large enough bill in the first year or two to justify the cost of a premium/deductible/copay? Or do those of you who’ve opted to get pet insurance consider it peace of mind?


i think the chance is reasonable in the first two years to make it worth the premium, if someone can afford it. For exactly the reason Karen mentioned - that’s when a puppy is most likely to ingest something, and the bill for an overnight stay to monitor or for surgical removal could be $3,000 or more (that was about the estimate we were given, but I don’t remember what it included and our puppy passed the foreign object). It would take years of saving the premium to cover that. I definitely think there is always the potential of it feeling wasted if nothing goes wrong. Whether or not to do it I think depends a lot on financial situation.

Without getting too tacky about money, I feel pretty strongly that finances shouldn’t prevent a family from owning a dog under most circumstances. If someone can afford the cost of food, shots, and basic vet care, they should be able to enjoy the blessings a dog can bring their family if it’s what they want. But MOST people cannot afford an emergency vet bill that requires an overnight stay, X-rays, or surgery. I couldnt afford a $30/month premium on my social worker’s salary! After many years of struggling financially, largely for reasons out of our control, we are in a good place, but it would require creativity to scrape together a few thousand dollars to pay cash for an emergency bill, and it will probably be that way at least until my kids finish college (although I’m sure it would help if I cut out extra doggie toys). I definitely regret not enrolling in insurance. Sundance is pretty healthy but between giardia his first year and a single injury when he was 3, it would have been worth it. All of this I say coming from a family with a decent income, in a state where we can still afford to own a home. The idea that families with less have likely already made sacrifices to save for a dog as expensive as a Havanese, would then be faced with an expensive vet bill they can’t afford, is heartbreaking to me.

Something to consider is that first time dog owners are unlikely to realize how expensive vet care can be, and there is a good chance that their idea of what kinds of treatments they would want to pay for will change.

DH did come across insurance that will enroll older pets after Sundance’s injury. I think they have to be under a certain age, no injuries within a certain period of time, and they must be in good health (verified by a vet). It only covered emergency visits and was $20-30/month.


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## LWalks (Feb 7, 2021)

We got Healthy Paws for Charlie after his first visit to the ER at 3.5 for a foxtail in his foot. The bill was $700, and when we looked up prices on other health issues we decided it was a good idea so we never had to make a decision about his health based on cost. They’ve overall been great… they generally pay very quickly and I love that they cover things like PT and acupuncture the same as anything else… and no restrictions on various ailments. We just got a check for $1800 for his recent overnight stay when he had pancreatitis. I didn’t think the ‘we don’t cover visits’ was a big deal, until we started seeing specialists… since C was diagnosed with mitral valve disease, we now have a yearly cardiologist appointment, and while they cover the echocardiogram, the visit with the cardiologist (which is something like $225) doesn’t even count towards our deductible.

Because of this, we decided to go with Embrace for Jolene, and got it her first day home. They had a 6 month orthopedic waiting period in addition to the typical 2 weeks for illness/injury, but if your vet fills out a form saying that their joints looked good, it is waived. Not knowing what our financial circumstances will be in 10 years, it made me feel better to know that we could go see any specialist she may need, as frequently as she may need it (FYI Embrace offers discounts through USAA and some employer benefit programs). I like that with both you can adjust the amount of your deductible to find what works for you in terms of monthly premium.

To be clear- this is the first year that we will get more back for Charlie than we paid in premiums between the IVDD and Pancreatitis. BUT, if you’re considering it eventually, the reason it can be worthwhile to do early is that none of them cover pre-existing conditions. So if you wait until something happens, anything related to that wouldn’t be covered. And some of them are pretty aggressive on what is considered ‘related’— like one orthopedic condition could be considered related to others, and one cancer could be related to others. Premiums do go up when they get older, but this happens if you’ve had it since they were young. Charlie’s premiums have doubled in the last 6 years, and I assume they’ll go up again after he turns 10 this year.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I also got Healthy Paws for Scout and Truffles when they first arrived. Veterinary care and specialists are terribly expensive. Hopefully if you do get insurance you will never need to use it. They covered around $10,000 for two CCL surgeries. Recently Scout saw an eye specialist to have a small growth removed from his eyelid $1,250 which was covered. They make process of reimbursement very easy. I just emailed the invoice and received a check within a few days. Like Lisa and Charlie...our premiums have also doubled over the years.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

From ShamaPapa:

We got Healthy Paws for Her Royal Highness right after we got her. We were not entirely sure it would be a good investment at the time. Now, however, with her CKD, we are very happy to have it. They have covered much of the costs of her vet visits, testing and medications. I am not sure what we pay each month at this point. I know it has gone up since the initial $25/month.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

I had Healthy Paws for Willow since got her. However about a year ago they raised her premium to almost double. Seems to me it was up around $90 a month. I also had problems with them repeatedly asking for information - vet exam information. I repeatedly sent them what I had. Also, I tried to send the information via fax as I don't have a scanner. Their fax line never worked. I feel I am able to take care of Willow's medical costs without insurance. Insurance is such a gamble. Costco now offers Figo pet insurance in some areas. I did look at that and got a quote. Half of what Healthy Paws wanted. I believe Healthy Paws is probably the best even though it's more expensive. I don't know why I had problems. Seems like no one else ever did.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Could someone that knows more about it than I do start a poll, or list that has columns for company name, cost, deductible, and satisfaction with interactions with the company?

There are a lot of questions to ask, and this could be a good place for owners to get an understanding. Insurance is always a gamble, but someone is going to get unlucky at some point.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> Could someone that knows more about it than I do start a poll, or list that has columns for company name, cost, deductible, and satisfaction with interactions with the company?
> 
> There are a lot of questions to ask, and this could be a good place for owners to get an understanding. Insurance is always a gamble, but someone is going to get unlucky at some point.


The problem with costs and deductibles, Tom, is that with most companies, you can choose a deductible based on the monthly premium you want to pay. And premiums are completely different based on the age of the dog and where you live. So just because one person is paying a certain amount with one company, it doesn't mean that someone else will pay the same amount with that company, even with another Havanese of the same age.


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## Havanese Dreams (Jun 6, 2021)

Do any pet insurance companies lock in your rate as your pet ages? For example, this is how my life insurance policy works. No matter how old I get, I always pay the same rate.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Havanese Dreams said:


> Do any pet insurance companies lock in your rate as your pet ages? For example, this is how my life insurance policy works. No matter how old I get, I always pay the same rate.


I have never heard of a pet insurance company locking your rate for an older pet. I may be wrong, but I think the premium would more then likely increase due to the increasing possibly of having to pay out.


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## LWalks (Feb 7, 2021)

krandall said:


> The problem with costs and deductibles, Tom, is that with most companies, you can choose a deductible based on the monthly premium you want to pay. And premiums are completely different based on the age of the dog and where you live. So just because one person is paying a certain amount with one company, it doesn't mean that someone else will pay the same amount with that company, even with another Havanese of the same age.


Yeah, it’s kind of impossible to compare with different coverage, dogs of different ages, locations, etc. You can get quotes across different companies pretty easily up front, but you have no idea how they’ll change the premiums. It seems fairly unregulated, and the prices can jump quickly. Charlie had small increases each year and then it jumped like 30% one year… they said it was had nothing to do with claims, but I find that hard to believe since that was the year he was diagnosed with mitral valve disease and mild arthritis! It’s a pretty weird industry, and yet I’m really happy to have it for peace of mind knowing that we’ll never be making a decision based on cost of treatment, which unfortunately so many people have to given the cost of specialized vet care.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

LWalks said:


> Yeah, it’s kind of impossible to compare with different coverage, dogs of different ages, locations, etc. You can get quotes across different companies pretty easily up front, but you have no idea how they’ll change the premiums. It seems fairly unregulated, and the prices can jump quickly. Charlie had small increases each year and then it jumped like 30% one year… they said it was had nothing to do with claims, but I find that hard to believe since that was the year he was diagnosed with mitral valve disease and mild arthritis! It’s a pretty weird industry, and yet I’m really happy to have it for peace of mind knowing that we’ll never be making a decision based on cost of treatment, which unfortunately so many people have to given the cost of specialized vet care.


My experience is that insurance companies increase premiums when a claim is made. Although not pet related...we had a burglary 2015 and our yearly premium was increased for three years.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Havanese Dreams said:


> I’m still on the fence about pet insurance vs. self-funding emergencies. What are the odds that a pet will have a large enough bill in the first year or two to justify the cost of a premium/deductible/copay? Or do those of you who’ve opted to get pet insurance consider it peace of mind?


I can't speak to the "odds" but personal experience says that if you might need it it's worth it .

I know Perry is probably an outlier, but for him insurance has been completely worth it.

I got Perry healthy paws when he was about a year old (we got him at 8 months old and by the time I figured out if I wanted insurance and got it, he was around a year old). We got the 90% coverage with the $250 deductible. As someone mentioned, they don't cover routine things, but do cover other medical issues, medications, and things like PT.

As many of you know, Perry has had many medical issues. He had his first surgery for a CCL tear a few years ago and 2021 was a host of costs. I think I calculated and at this point his 2021 medical bills were around (through November, haven't added December to the calculations yet) $10,500 and we've been reimbursed close to $9000 (the rest was deductible plus the 10% that we have to pay). I don't remember what we payed when we started the policy - but it did raise to around $50/ month last year. 

We're still dealing with issues on his front leg (his PT vet has recommended visiting a specialist in the Baltimore area) and need to do annual xrays (around $700-800) for the lesions on his spine. I figure that that alone practically makes it worth the cost of the insurance every year, plus I can cancel it at any time and will have already made it more than worth the cost with what we've incurred versus what we've had to pay up to now.

I know this is not necessarily the norm, and I could have covered these costs myself without the insurance, but I like the piece of mind of having it.

I find them very easy to work with and get reimbursed very quickly. I attach everything to the claim when I put it in - if I don't have a scanner I just take a picture of the bill and submit it. They have occasionally asked for other paperwork, but it never was a major problem.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Out of curiosity, I got a quote from Healthy Paws on Ricky Ricardo an 8 y.o. male, 11 - 20 pound small breed canine. Here are some of the details:

$44 per month premium
Only two deductibles were offered, $750 and $1,000. I selected $750
Three coverages were offered. 70%, 60%, and 50%. I selected 70%
Premiums are good for 12 months only and can be changed due to dog age and increased veterinary care in your zip code
Coverage starts 30 days AFTER the start of premium payments
Pre-existing conditions are excluded
Routine care is not covered plus there are a lot of other exclusions like hip dysplasia.
For canines over 6 y.o., no qualifying Vet exam is required
I did a breakeven cost analysis on the policy. I would need to spend about $2,500 per year in extraordinary veterinarian expenses for this to cover my premiums, deductibles, and co-pay. If Ricky lives to be an average age for a Havanese, I would need to spend about $20,000 on extraordinary health care for him to breakeven during his remaining lifetime...IF the premiums were to remain the same, which I know they won't. That means the breakeven point moves to $20,000+++.

I can take that $2,500 per year I would be spending on his extraordinary health per year and invest in his own stock portfolio. Currently, I am getting about 8% return on investment in the stock market (which could go up or down) and earn $200 per year on that investment. That would mean my breakeven point would be reduced to 5 or 6 years rather than 8 years...IF the premiums and coverage were to remain the same, which they won't.

It is a tough call for me. I think it depends on each individual's specific financial circumstances, dog's age, dog's general health, location, etc. For some it makes sense to get insurance and others it won't.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

DogFather said:


> Out of curiosity, I got a quote from Healthy Paws on Ricky Ricardo an 8 y.o. male, 11 - 20 pound small breed canine. Here are some of the details:
> 
> $44 per month premium
> Only two deductibles were offered, $750 and $1,000. I selected $750
> ...


I agree. I don't think it makes ANY sense to sign up an older dog. I am not sure it makes sense for MOST people to continue with insurance after the first couple of years AS LONG AS they have the money to handle big, sudden expense. HOWEVER, I think that the cost is much more reasonable in the first couple of years, and while the vast majority of Havanese puppy owners WON'T need it, the few that do, will thank their lucky stars that they have it!!!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Pam went to a website today that compared policies. She just picked the one on top of the list. For a 12 week old puppy, a $250 deductible Major Medical policy for our zipcode was $23.88 a month. To include Preventative, it was 24.99. I don't know any more details, and she doesn't either. It was just for curiosity.

With what any veterinary procedure costs these days, it seems pretty reasonable.

As an aside, our website might be back up tomorrow. I moved to a new domain host, and it's down completely now, but we very well might be able to edit and update it tomorrow.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> Pam went to a website today that compared policies. She just picked the one on top of the list. For a 12 week old puppy, a $250 deductible Major Medical policy for our zipcode was $23.88 a month. To include Preventative, it was 24.99. I don't know any more details, and she doesn't either. It was just for curiosity.
> 
> With what any veterinary procedure costs these days, it seems pretty reasonable.


Exactly. It’s quite a bit higher in my area… I had to accept a $750 deductible and major medical only to get a premium of around $30 for 8 week old Ducky… and I did shop around. But even for THAT kind of coverage, I think for that price, it’s well worth it. Kodi had 2 “issues” in his first few years… obstruction due to a Greenie, hospitalization for a couple of days, treated medically, no surgery needed $2,000. Then a ham string injury. I’m not sure how much it cost over time, but with numerous doctor visits, diagnostics, then finally PT once we had a dx, I’m sure it was WELL over $2000 when all was said and done. And both of those were really relatively minor In the scheme of things. If that obstruction had become surgical… I would have gotten my money’s worth out of insurance on him in his first couple of years, for sure! LOL! It really doesn’t take that much.

No good breeder purposely produces a puppy with bad patellas. But they happen occasionally. They are not “life threatening” in most cases, so I suppose, technically not covered by most puppy contracts. OTOH, I’d feel bad if I produced a puppy with bad enough patellas that it needed surgery. If the puppy can be insured for a reasonable amount of money, it protects the puppy, the new owner AND me.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

krandall said:


> Exactly. It’s quite a bit higher in my area… I had to accept a $750 deductible and major medical only to get a premium of around $30 for 8 week old Ducky… and I did shop around. But even for THAT kind of coverage, I think for that price, it’s well worth it. Kodi had 2 “issues” in his first few years… obstruction due to a Greenie, hospitalization for a couple of days, treated medically, no surgery needed $2,000. Then a ham string injury. I’m not sure how much it cost over time, but with numerous doctor visits, diagnostics, then finally PT once we had a dx, I’m sure it was WELL over $2000 when all was said and done. And both of those were really relatively minor In the scheme of things. If that obstruction had become surgical… I would have gotten my money’s worth out of insurance on him in his first couple of years, for sure! LOL! It really doesn’t take that much.
> 
> No good breeder purposely produces a puppy with bad patellas. But they happen occasionally. They are not “life threatening” in most cases, so I suppose, technically not covered by most puppy contracts. OTOH, I’d feel bad if I produced a puppy with bad enough patellas that it needed surgery. If the puppy can be insured for a reasonable amount of money, it protects the puppy, the new owner AND me.


We have basic insurance for Jodie and Cotton which is close to the costs Tom listed. JoJo had patella luxation his entire life and never needed surgery. After he began having periodic seizures and juvenile cataracts I contacted the breeder on 3 occasions and she refused to acknowledge me. I told her we loved JoJo and weren't seeking any type of monetary, or other, compensation. I just thought she might want to know. It's been 16 years and the website still has the same pics and no updates. That's why I was SO picky finding a breeder for Jodie. When people ask Ed about it he responds with "She was, is and will always be worth every penny." Even though Cotton is Daddy's little boy Ed doesn't play favorites. Unfortunately for Jodie, neither do I 😋 That's how I know that you and Tom are exemplary breeders!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

JaJa said:


> That's why I was SO picky finding a breeder for Jodie. When people ask Ed about it he responds with "She was, is and will always be worth every penny."


 Your ED and Ricky's Momi are exactly alike. When we purchased Ricky she said, "We just paid how much for a dog?!" Today she says Ricky is priceless. Anything Ricky wants, needs, or has to have, there is never any discussion about the cost.


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## UrsaMinor (Jul 4, 2021)

We're in Los Angeles County and I just did a quick search for Ursa. With Embrace, the accident & illness plan with an annual max. of $15k, deductible of $500 and 90% reimbursement would be $53.37.

By the way, is $15k max annual reimbursement reasonable?


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I used one of the comparison sites, too. The difference between a plan with no yearly max and a limited yearly max was $3/month. Although the rate suggested to me seemed low, $24, once I read the fine print it stated that any diagnostic tests and exams were separate! Adding those on was another $4. For a plan with a lower deductible, no yearly max, and both diagnostic and treatment coverage, it was $31 for an 8 week old puppy. Out of curiosity I entered the same criteria for the plan using zip codes for two different states and in one state it was $2 cheaper and in the other it was $4 more. I was surprised that in the more metropolitan area it was less expensive.

Here’s the crazy thing: I ran it one last time with Sundance’s age of 4 years (before I entered 8 weeks). The company recommended to me previously as the best value by the comparison tool didn’t come up at all. But the recommended plan that came up was $18/month, less than the puppy plan! Once I was directed to the site, I found some plans did start at $18 but those seemed very limited. The plans with coverage for both illness and injury and with no yearly limit started at $21. I don’t know if that was accurate because it didn’t specify the type of illness/injury Sundance had previously, I’d have to register to continue. I suspect there is some reason the price is lower for 4yrs and the premium would increase with age.

The plan I just found is also less expensive than the one DH came across a while ago. Sundance has his annual exam coming up and I think I may sign up at that time.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

UrsaMinor said:


> We're in Los Angeles County and I just did a quick search for Ursa. With Embrace, the accident & illness plan with an annual max. of $15k, deductible of $500 and 90% reimbursement would be $53.37.
> 
> By the way, is $15k max annual reimbursement reasonable?


some policies have no maximum. I think Ursula is a puppy? If you are seriously looking, I’d KEEP looking! Also, it’s entirely up to you, of course, but I was willing to accept a higher deductible to have a lower monthly premium. A number of companies offer that.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I used one of the comparison sites, too. The difference between a plan with no yearly max and a limited yearly max was $3/month. Although the rate suggested to me seemed low, $24, once I read the fine print it stated that any diagnostic tests and exams were separate! Adding those on was another $4. For a plan with a lower deductible, no yearly max, and both diagnostic and treatment coverage, it was $31 for an 8 week old puppy. Out of curiosity I entered the same criteria for the plan using zip codes for two different states and in one state it was $2 cheaper and in the other it was $4 more. I was surprised that in the more metropolitan area it was less expensive.
> 
> Here’s the crazy thing: I ran it one last time with Sundance’s age of 4 years (before I entered 8 weeks). The company recommended to me previously as the best value by the comparison tool didn’t come up at all. But the recommended plan that came up was $18/month, less than the puppy plan! Once I was directed to the site, I found some plans did start at $18 but those seemed very limited. The plans with coverage for both illness and injury and with no yearly limit started at $21. I don’t know if that was accurate because it didn’t specify the type of illness/injury Sundance had previously, I’d have to register to continue. I suspect there is some reason the price is lower for 4yrs and the premium would increase with age.
> 
> The plan I just found is also less expensive than the one DH came across a while ago. Sundance has his annual exam coming up and I think I may sign up at that time.


Can you findthat comparison site and share it? That would be VERY helpful!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

There are a few but I used the Forbes version. “Comparison” might not be the best choice of words, because I didn’t see a way to view the plans in detail side by side, at least on mobile. But most companies I’m aware of seem to be included in one place on the site and are rated with concrete criteria so it’s easy to make comparisons between them. There are other sites that do have chart type comparison regarding coverage details and deductibles but it does not include the monthly premium since it varies. When I search “dog insurance comparison” all of them technically show up tagged as ads, probably because the links are click through, but the information seems accurate.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

DogFather said:


> Your ED and Ricky's Momi are exactly alike. When we purchased Ricky she said, "We just paid how much for a dog?!" Today she says Ricky is priceless. Anything Ricky wants, needs, or has to have, there is never any discussion about the cost.


Bingo❣That is why, last year, we decided to just stay in this house and not upgrade to a fancy neighborhood. We qualify financially (since we're old😆) but I would have to alter my favorite past time. That's not happening! Isn't it funny/wonderful how a Havanese can quickly soften a pensive attitude? Ed was just as devastated as me last March when we lost JoJo. Still having 2 more didn't lessen our grief for him 💖 We are grateful for Cotton and Jodie and we can't imagine not having Havanese in our lives no matter how old we get!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

JaJa said:


> Isn't it funny/wonderful how a Havanese can quickly soften a pensive attitude? Ed was just as devastated as me last March when we lost JoJo. Still having 2 more didn't lessen our grief for him 💖 We are grateful for Cotton and Jodie and we can't imagine not having Havanese in our lives no matter how old we get!


Havanese aren't dogs, they are beloved members of your immediate family. 🤩


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

DogFather said:


> Out of curiosity, I got a quote from Healthy Paws on Ricky Ricardo an 8 y.o. male, 11 - 20 pound small breed canine. Here are some of the details:
> 
> $44 per month premium
> Only two deductibles were offered, $750 and $1,000. I selected $750
> ...


I can't remember the exact premium cost nine years ago, but it was around $40.00 for Scout. It has doubled over the years. For us it was a good decision. My friend had a $12,000.00 bill for one week of hospitalization.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Heather's said:


> I can't remember the exact premium cost nine years ago, but it was around $40.00 for Scout. It has doubled over the years. For us it was a good decision. My friend had a $12,000.00 bill for one week of hospitalization.


Yikes!😱 It's definitely worth the premiums for emergency coverag.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

DogFather said:


> Havanese aren't dogs, they are beloved members of your immediate family. 🤩


Sing it brother!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

I just received an unbelievable offer for pet insurance from my primary insurance carrier (home, auto, and umbrella policy), GEICO. The policy is offered through EMBRACE. Here are the particulars:

For Ricky, 8 y.o. Havanese male in our zip code
Annual Deductible = $1000 (can be as little as $200 at higher premium)
Reimbursement percentage = 90% (can be as little as 70% for lower premium)
Annual reimbursement limit = $10,000 (can be higher or lower from $5K to $30K)
Waiting period = 2 days illness, 14 days accidents, 6 months orthopedic (unless you opt for an orthopedic exam in which case waiting is reduced to 14 days)
Does not cover pre-existing or routine care
Cost = $25.67 monthly ($12 annual discount if premium paid annually)
Optional Wellness plan = $18.75 per month (covers routine care and exams, no deductible, max. annual reimbursement $250) I think I would opt out.
Obviously premiums will increase annually as local costs and dog age increase.
I'm very tempted. Anybody have experience with EMBRACE?


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> Can you findthat comparison site and share it? That would be VERY helpful!


@krandall here is a comparison site by U.S. News that I found very helpful.

I find that EMBRACE is the best plan and fit for my specific needs. Your needs may be different than mine. They do offer a 10% discount for multiple pets - dogs and cats. (and military veterans) 😉


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Dog Father, I just came across this link you provided. I've got it saved in my Favorites as it looks really helpful. Thanks for sharing the link. Looks like there are several companies to choose from for Willow. Embrace is one of them. Seems odd that Healthy Paws did not even show up in the recommended list.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Jackie from Concrete WA said:


> Dog Father, I just came across this link you provided. I've got it saved in my Favorites as it looks really helpful. Thanks for sharing the link. Looks like there are several companies to choose from for Willow. Embrace is one of them. Seems odd that Healthy Paws did not even show up in the recommended list.


I just checked DogFather's link and Healthy Paws was #1. It has proven results for me! 😊 Before choosing a policy I would definitely check the companies reviews.


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## Havanese Dreams (Jun 6, 2021)

I got pet insurance as a result of this thread. I did some additional research and ended up going with Healthy Paws for my almost 9-month-old, Kiki. It was around $30 per month with a $250 deductible and 80% reimbursement for our zip code and her age. I'm hoping we'll never need it!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Havanese Dreams said:


> I got pet insurance as a result of this thread. I did some additional research and ended up going with Healthy Paws for my almost 9-month-old, Kiki. It was around $30 per month with a $250 deductible and 80% reimbursement for our zip code and her age. I'm hoping we'll never need it!


Healthy Paws has no annual or lifetime cap. I have submitted three claims and received reimbursement within the week. Our monthly rate has increased over time, but that is something I expected happen.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Heather's said:


> I just checked DogFather's link and Healthy Paws was #1. It has proven results for me! 😊 Before choosing a policy I would definitely check the companies reviews.


Healthy Paws was listed on the first screen, but when I put in all Willow's information to do a scan of insurance policies for her, Healthy Paws wasn't one that showed up. There were quite a few other companies but not Healthy Paws. I was surprised as I've always heard Healthy Paws was one of the best. That's why I chose that one when I had her insured. They raised the policy so high for me I had to cancel. The new premium was going to be in the $90/month realm.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Our policy is getting up there too and we have two. Because of the leg surgeries we still have saved quite a bit. It seems recently just walking in the door to see a vet without treatment starts at $250. 🙁


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Heather's said:


> It seems recently just walking in the door to see a vet without treatment starts at $250. 🙁


.
I believe you @Heather's . That is why most insurance companies, for any kind of policy, will want your zip code to adjust for local pricing. For example, I live in a relatively low rent district and an office visit to our Vet is $80 without treatment. The cost of pet insurance will depend on your specific location.

I was talking with my daughter about pet insurance a couple of days ago. Years and years ago, she used to work for a human health insurance company. She said to be careful to read the "fine print." Many insurance companies will only pay the coinsurance for what is a "reasonable and customary" cost in your zip code. For example, if you happen to use a Vet that is more expensive than other Vets in your zip code, and you have 80% coinsurance,,,,,,,your pet insurance company may not pay 80% of your Vet bill, but something much less if the local "reasonable and customary" rate for that procedure is less. It is always best to have a chat with the customer service rep of that insurance company before signing up with that company.

For the record, Healthy Paws is rated #1 for pet health insurance in most surveys. However, that comes with a cost. Healthy Paws is among the most expensive for pet health insurance. In my specific case, in my zip code, Healthy Paws policy is almost DOUBLE the cost for Ricky than the company I am seriously considering for exactly the same coverage and copay. AND, many insurance companies do not necessarily provide coverage in all zip codes if they deem it is not cost effective to produce a profit in that zip code.

This is not an easy decision.


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## TotesMcGotes (11 mo ago)

Just my 2 cents and from what I've been told from people that work in the pet insurance industry.

I'd save the $25/month in a regular brokerage account that grows at 5% after inflation. After 10 years, that's $4k in the bank (in today's dollars adjusted for inflation). Furthermore, any stocks that haven't been traded for at least 1 year you don't have to pay any capital gains tax (except if you are a higher earner I forget what but say $150k+/year in which case it's like 15%). 

The pet insurance industry is unregulated and corrupt and so they can jack up the price tremendously after you use it. They will start you out at something cheap like $20/month but then after a few years or using it will jack it up $50 or more. Imagine if using health insurance for people say for heart disease or cancer would raise your rates 100% or more. 

The problem is most people don't save enough or at all and don't have the discipline to invest something simple as $25/month aside for pet emergencies. I recommend Schwab bank for instance & open a Schwab checking account and brokerage account and put the money into a basic index fund/ETF that tracks the S&P500. Every month put $25 and don't touch it. 

You only really win with pet insurance as long as it's something catastrophic and then after that they will jack the rates up tremendously.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

TotesMcGoats said:


> I'd save the $25/month in a regular brokerage account that grows at 5% after inflation. After 10 years, that's $4k in the bank (in today's dollars adjusted for inflation). .......The problem is most people don't save enough or at all and don't have the discipline to invest something simple as $25/month aside for pet emergencies. I recommend XXXXX bank for instance & open a XXXXX checking account and brokerage account and put the money into a basic index fund/ETF that tracks the S&P500. Every month put $25 and don't touch it.


I agree with your concept in general but the problem with your concept is that where I live in SoCal, the current inflation rate is 4%. Couple that with a GUARANTEED 5% ROI in an index fund and I am looking at a 9% ROI. I don't know of any index fund that will guarantee me a 9% ROI. I do not like "basic index funds" that invest in a market segment as a whole (like the S&P 500) because I am then investing in companies that I may not agree with their political alignment or product assortment. So I do have a brokerage account but I invest only in companies that are in agreement with my personal global philosophy. My approach is HIGHLY RISKY (I repeat, highly risky) only invest in the stock market an amount you can afford to lose. I am not a "day trader" and I ride my portfolio through the ups and downs and don't touch it (other than to add to it through "dollar cost averaging"). Fortunately, over the last two years, I have been able to beat the S&P index with my personal portfolio, but nothing is ever guaranteed!

There are several reputable online brokerage companies. It is best to do your own due diligence to select the one that best fits your needs.




> Furthermore, any stocks that haven't been traded for at least 1 year you don't have to pay any capital gains tax (except if you are a higher earner I forget what but say $150k+/year in which case it's like 15%).


Thank you for that tip, I was unaware of that, probably because I have never had the need or opportunity to use it! 😉



> The pet insurance industry is unregulated and corrupt and so they can jack up the price tremendously after you use it. They will start you out at something cheap like $20/month but then after a few years or using it will jack it up $50 or more. Imagine if using health insurance for people say for heart disease or cancer would raise your rates 100% or more.
> You only really win with pet insurance as long as it's something catastrophic and then after that they will jack the rates up tremendously.


Again, I agree with you. However, everyone has different needs and philosophies about insurance of any type. For some, pet insurance will make sense and for others it won't. My Havanese is getting to the age when pet insurance is starting to make sense for my specific needs. I do not want to be put in a position that I would have to make an "end of life" decision for him based on lowest out of pocket cost to me IF I didn't have pet insurance.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TotesMcGoats said:


> Just my 2 cents and from what I've been told from people that work in the pet insurance industry.
> 
> I'd save the $25/month in a regular brokerage account that grows at 5% after inflation. After 10 years, that's $4k in the bank (in today's dollars adjusted for inflation). Furthermore, any stocks that haven't been traded for at least 1 year you don't have to pay any capital gains tax (except if you are a higher earner I forget what but say $150k+/year in which case it's like 15%).
> 
> ...


I agree with you in the long run. I USED to agree with you all around. However, I’ve changed my mind about puppies. Puppy insurance for major medical is relatively inexpensive, and many of the biggest unexpected expenses you are likely to run into with a dog (those swallowed socks?  ) come in the first couple of years. After that, if people decide they don’t want to continue with it, I agree!


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## LWalks (Feb 7, 2021)

TotesMcGoats said:


> Just my 2 cents and from what I've been told from people that work in the pet insurance industry.
> 
> I'd save the $25/month in a regular brokerage account that grows at 5% after inflation. After 10 years, that's $4k in the bank (in today's dollars adjusted for inflation). Furthermore, any stocks that haven't been traded for at least 1 year you don't have to pay any capital gains tax (except if you are a higher earner I forget what but say $150k+/year in which case it's like 15%).
> 
> ...


You make good points here, and I hate how unregulated the pet insurance industry is, and how much they can (and do) jack up the prices. However, my experience has been that vet care is so expensive that the money saved in an account could go really fast… My almost 10 yo Hav was diagnosed with mitral valve disease at age 8, and now has to get a yearly echocardiogram for $600…and that’s not even the emergency stuff! He also had pancreatitis this fall out of nowhere, and 24 hrs in the ER on fluids was around $1800. We would have exhausted his account already if we’d done that approach, and we hope to have him around for a lot longer! And any kind of orthopedic or neuro surgery is unbelievably expensive, and will often need multiple surgeries. Im the type of person who would always prefer a planned expense monthly to a very large sudden expense, so the insurance companies love me 😄

But of course everyone needs to figure out what’s right for them. I think the approach Karen described makes sense for many people, because a savings account won’t be able to cover an emergency for several years, and puppy expenses can be extreme. Our puppy had Giardia, a bad case of kennel cough, and a fall that needed x-rays in the first two months we had her, and thankfully none of those ended up being as serious as a puppy that ingests something it shouldn’t or has a growth plate injury. Getting it for a puppy also means you’d have the insurance coverage in the event that a chronic condition is diagnosed— say a hip or knee issue, or bad allergies— which will likely incur expenses for the life of the dog. This is important because i don’t think any of them cover pre-existing conditions, so if you wait until there’s a diagnosis, you’ll never be covered for that issue. My mom didn’t have it for her last dog, a miniature poodle, and when she looked into it after he’d developed kidney stones and bad seasonal allergies, it didn’t make sense to buy it since those things wouldn’t be covered. She spent a LOT out of pocket on his care from age 7-13 related to these issues. Thankfully she was able to afford it and never had to make a choice about care based on cost, but unfortunately so many people end up w that impossible choice when faced with a $5k surgery.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Dog Father - Is Embrace the one you are still considering (if you don't mind my asking). I haven't had a chance to study the plans yet, but I'm getting emails from Embrace, Pawp and Wag! Wellness as a result of the scan.


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