# I really don't think he can...



## CrazieJones (May 28, 2011)

hold it!

Roshi is almost 8 months old. He holds his bladder well when he's attached to me. 4-5 hours no problem. 

Fiancee and I went out for lunch and grab some groceries for 2.5 hours. Big puddle of pee in his ex pen. 

Why?!


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## West End Girl (Feb 18, 2011)

Do you "crate" Roshi when you go out? Or simply leave him in a large x-pen area?

I always lock/close the crate when I leave and the dog never makes a mess.


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## CrazieJones (May 28, 2011)

I don't dare to put him in his crate. When he was a wee pup, he had NO PROBLEM soiling in there and then walk on it (his breeder and the mommy dog did train the pups to soil away from the litter). Sigh.

I now shrunk his pen to 2'x2'. He peed in one corner, and stood in the opposite corner. Doesn't matter, he's almost 8 months. Shouldn't he be able to hold it for at least 3-4 hours? I did empty him out before heading out.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

he should be able to hold it, especially since he CAN and DOES when attached to you...?


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## West End Girl (Feb 18, 2011)

Is Roshi pad trained? Or does he go outside?

Odd about soiling his crate as generally speaking, they won't dirty the area they sleep in- that's considered their "home"

I would begin training him IMMEDIATELY using lots of treats and praise when he DOES use the facilities (pads/outdoors)

What about his water? Does he have free access to it all day?

It could also be a behavior issue where Roshi is "punishing" you for dare leaving him! This could be his way of telling you he doesn't like when you leave him. Perhaps NOT having him with you ALL the time when you're home and again, lots of praise when he does something right, will be a step in the right direction


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## CrazieJones (May 28, 2011)

At the beginning, he was pad trained outside... i had a pad on my porch because I had wet mud for a backyard. Then once things were a bit more dried up, he was put on dirt ground. Now, when we go to the yard, tons of praise and a little cookie. On our walks, just praise. 

Even a little freedom in the house (600 sq ft of open concept space on the main floor), when he needs to go, he will go to the door.

I went out for 1 hr before. Dry. Just after a 2 hr mark, he will just go pee!!!! Ahhh. I honestly think he is IMPOSSIBLE to potty train. Did I get a lemon pup?! Or should I always put him in a pen and do floor cleaning for the rest of his life?

I don't leave water in his pen. Cuz I know I won't be gone long. I'm sure 2-3 hrs won't cause dehydration


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

My Ache did this for some time every time I left her ( in her expen ). I think it was because of her anxiety of me leaving. If I were you, I will put a pee pad or a ugodog o whatever you want so he has an acceptable place to go when you are not home. If you have the expen 2' X 2', use one area for his bed, one area for the pad. It is better that he has an alternative than continuing peeing on the floor. When you are home, outside is the place to go. It won't confuse him, in my opinion. Good luck.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

It does sound like anxiety. Is his crate small enough? Mine have travel crates that we put them in when we go out. That way there shouldn't be room to pee or poop without getting in it. The smaller crates make them feel secure. Abby had anxiety when we first got her at 8 months of age and it helped when I put an old t-shirt that I had worn in the crate with her. Sometimes it just takes time for him to get used to you being away. He is definitely old enough to hold it for a few hours so I don't think that's the problem.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

West End Girl said:


> It could also be a behavior issue where Roshi is "punishing" you for dare leaving him! This could be his way of telling you he doesn't like when you leave him. Perhaps NOT having him with you ALL the time when you're home and again, lots of praise when he does something right, will be a step in the right direction


Dogs don't "punish" people for leaving (or other things). But it COULD be that he has a little separation anxiety that is causing him to feel the need to pee more often when she isn't around.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

shimpli said:


> My Ache did this for some time every time I left her ( in her expen ). I think it was because of her anxiety of me leaving. If I were you, I will put a pee pad or a ugodog o whatever you want so he has an acceptable place to go when you are not home. If you have the expen 2' X 2', use one area for his bed, one area for the pad. It is better that he has an alternative than continuing peeing on the floor. When you are home, outside is the place to go. It won't confuse him, in my opinion. Good luck.


I agree completely!


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## West End Girl (Feb 18, 2011)

krandall said:


> Dogs don't "punish" people for leaving (or other things). But it COULD be that he has a little separation anxiety that is causing him to feel the need to pee more often when she isn't around.


Of course. Dogs don't hold grudges. I think that's why we love them so much. They love US no matter what. See? It's been a LOOOOOOONG time since I've been a dog owner! Thanks Karen

I think you'll really just have to be consistent and use lots of praise. And try some separation exercises at home while you're there.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

shimpli said:


> My Ache did this for some time every time I left her ( in her expen ). I think it was because of her anxiety of me leaving. If I were you, I will put a pee pad or a ugodog o whatever you want so he has an acceptable place to go when you are not home. If you have the expen 2' X 2', use one area for his bed, one area for the pad. It is better that he has an alternative than continuing peeing on the floor. When you are home, outside is the place to go. It won't confuse him, in my opinion. Good luck.


I agree with Teresita - you should try using an indoor potty system when you go out. I had a small synthetic grass potty thing that I would use whenever I went out, and Cey was pretty consistent about using it at first (and no, it didn't interfere at all with his natural desire to 'go' outside if and when he could). He has since outgrown it - it is pretty small, about 12 1/2" by 18" total (so the grass part was only about 10" by 16") and he finally has started to go elsewhere in the house when we are not home. I should have gotten him something bigger a long time ago (bad mommy!), but I finally just today ordered a 20" x 25" indoor grass mat system, and I think once it arrives he will adjust pretty quickly to using that consistently as well.

There are a variety of options for indoor potty systems that you can try; I would like to have tried the Ugodog, but since I already know that Cey will go on a synthetic grass mat (as long as it is big enough for him, that is), I was hesitant to spend over $50 on something that I wasn't sure he would take to! He never liked nor consistently used the pee pads either. In fact, I still have a lot of pee pads left, so I will use those under the grass mat once it arrives. I also considered a doggie litterbox system, but I have had cats before and never liked dealing with litter (not to mention the expense of constantly buying new litter). You should consider all of the options out there, and find something that Roshi likes to use, and just leave it out when you are not home; I bet he will take to it pretty quickly.

Good luck


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## CrazieJones (May 28, 2011)

My worry about an indoor system, especially a grass mat, is that it will stink!!! I have 3 washable "Pooch Pads". Roshi is good with them, but once they are used... the smell!!! 

But yes, I still have an accident once a week. Sigh. Of course, my fault. One day... we will conquer his bladder and bowel movements!


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

CrazieJones said:


> My worry about an indoor system, especially a grass mat, is that it will stink!!! I have 3 washable "Pooch Pads". Roshi is good with them, but once they are used... the smell!!!
> 
> But yes, I still have an accident once a week. Sigh. Of course, my fault. One day... we will conquer his bladder and bowel movements!


Of course it will smell a bit - - consider what it is being used for! But, having your pup able to consistently use an indoor system that can be relatively easily cleaned out is much better than them thinking they can go anywhere they want if you are not home. And, some indoor potty systems can be more easily cleaned/disinfected than others. I actually never really noticed too bad of a smell from the small grass matt that I used; I just emptied the pan out every day, and took the matt outside and hosed it down whenever it started to smell. From what I understand, I think that the Ugodogg system would be even easier to keep clean, since it's just a plastic grate sort of thing that you can hose down or run through the dishwasher whenever you like. I don't know what your plans are long-term, or what other people do with their havs, but I would think that eventually, you would want to let Roshi have a bit more freedom in your house when you are gone all day. Having a consistent, accepted place for him to 'go' indoors is IMO better than either just keeping him locked up in a puppy-sized expen once he's grown, or letting him go wherever he wants because he doesn't know any better.

I mean, yea, it's great to think that our puppies will someday be able to hold it for 8-9 hours at our convenience, but, in the meantime, there is reality that we have to deal with. Right now, because I failed to get my Cey an adequate indoor potty system for his size, he has started to go wherever. I am certain that once I get the new, larger grass system and I spend some time training him to go on it, that my carpets will be safe after that; but, at 10 months old, I know that I cannot expect him to hold it all day while I am at work. Will it stink, especially if I don't take the time to clean it every day? -probably. Still better than having him pee on the carpet! And, so, I will just have to take the time to clean it, if and when it starts to stink


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I've always had an indoor potty for Kodi... we use a litter box. I did try a grass mat system for a while, but it didn't smell "a bit", it STUNK!!! I could smell it the minute I walked in the back door, even RIGHT after I cleaned it. And there was no way I could get the smell out, no matter what I used on it.

I still really like my Rascal Dog litter pans, as they are large, and very versatile, but I use them with litter,(wood pellets) not with the grass mat. We are putting an addition on our house though, which includes a back porch. I AM thinking of putting one of the Rascal Dog boxes out there with a grass mat. Outdoors, I don't think the smell would be a problem, and it would give him a place to go in a snow storm or heavy rain. (he doesn't like to poop in the house if there is ANY alternative, and I don't like cleaning him up after a trip outdoors at 7AM!:biggrin1


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## CrazieJones (May 28, 2011)

Kathie said:


> It does sound like anxiety. Is his crate small enough? Mine have travel crates that we put them in when we go out. That way there shouldn't be room to pee or poop without getting in it. The smaller crates make them feel secure. Abby had anxiety when we first got her at 8 months of age and it helped when I put an old t-shirt that I had worn in the crate with her. Sometimes it just takes time for him to get used to you being away. He is definitely old enough to hold it for a few hours so I don't think that's the problem.


Ok. I think Roshi does have some separation anxiety issue. Emptied him out around 7:10 after his dinner. Then I had to go out at 8 to give someone back his phone that I found at the dog park (Yes, I'm a great Samaritan!). Came home at 8:15 and found a piddle in Roshi's pen. Sigh.

So... how do I 'fix' this? He's ok when:
- I'm not around, but other people are around: like at the office, day home, etc.
- He's alone in his pen in the yard at my parents home.

I had stuffed Roshi in his little travel crate when I went out once for 2 hours. Good thing I had that diaper on him, or else he would have been mopping up the pee with his coat... and this was one month ago. Maybe he didn't see his travel crate as his safe haven...

Ahhh. What to do?


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

CrazieJones said:


> My worry about an indoor system, especially a grass mat, is that it will stink!!! I have 3 washable "Pooch Pads". Roshi is good with them, but once they are used... the smell!!!
> 
> But yes, I still have an accident once a week. Sigh. Of course, my fault. One day... we will conquer his bladder and bowel movements!


 I would continue doing what you have been doing if you are only having one accident a week that is great! The idea of a travel create for while you are gone is a good one. Less room then the 2 by 2 I wish I hadn't used a indoor system I think its a lot harder to totally train them. Where does he sleep at night?


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## CrazieJones (May 28, 2011)

he has a slightly bigger wire crate (than his travel one) at home beside my bed. he just started to go in it by himself when it's sleep time (before, it took some luring with some chicken, lol). 

I thought of shrinking the ex pen would help him hold it. I guess he might just be anxious. I want him to be in the crate, but so worried he will soil it, which he doesn't seem to have any issues doing (I think I got a lemon when it comes to "dogs don't soil where they eat and sleep"). It will be more cleaning (bed and crate pan) than the ex pen (lino floor).


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

CrazieJones said:


> he has a slightly bigger wire crate (than his travel one) at home beside my bed. he just started to go in it by himself when it's sleep time (before, it took some luring with some chicken, lol).
> 
> I thought of shrinking the ex pen would help him hold it. I guess he might just be anxious. I want him to be in the crate, but so worried he will soil it, which he doesn't seem to have any issues doing (I think I got a lemon when it comes to "dogs don't soil where they eat and sleep"). It will be more cleaning (bed and crate pan) than the ex pen (lino floor).


 Have you tried putting him in his night time crate while you are gone with something that smells like you?


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## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

i have the same issue with oreo. he can hold it when people are around but will pee and poop off the ugodog when i'm out for a few hours. worse is he has no regard for pee or poop and will step in it all the time.

i have a theory but it could be dumb. i think they pee and poop more when nobody is around to get attention. what i mean is...you leave, they pee and poop, you come back to clean it up and they see you cleaning it up. to them, it could mean...make a mess and someone will come clean it up. gonna to test this by ignoring that he peed and pooed like nothing happened and make sure he does not watch you clean up the mess.

i tried putting him in his crate when i'm gone but he goes ballistic and wants out. he's fine with his crate as he sleeps in it and knows the crate command to go in his crate. he'll also be quiet in his crate if we are around..for a short oeriod of time.

*sigh*


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## CrazieJones (May 28, 2011)

So I'm going to try leaving something with my scent with him. The problem is, I need to find an old shirt ... in case he pees on it. There is no way in hell I'm going to wear a shirt again with Roshi pee stain!!!! 

Anyways... other than those anxiety puddles... accident free for 1.5 wks. Go Roshi go.


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## Momo means Peach (Jun 7, 2011)

Roshi is very smart with all the tricks you've taught him - Yay, Roshi! Perhaps this can be a type of trick for him to learn? You leave for 5 minutes, no pee, big treat. 10 minutes, etc. Just a thought, maybe biological output outweighs all of that.


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

shimpli said:


> My Ache did this for some time every time I left her ( in her expen ). I think it was because of her anxiety of me leaving. If I were you, I will put a pee pad or a ugodog o whatever you want so he has an acceptable place to go when you are not home. If you have the expen 2' X 2', use one area for his bed, one area for the pad. It is better that he has an alternative than continuing peeing on the floor. When you are home, outside is the place to go. It won't confuse him, in my opinion. Good luck.


this is how Lucys space is set up. My intention was for her to use litter box only, but she likes to go outside So, when she is by herself she is in her ex-pen with litter box, crate, water, food, etc. when I'm home, these are still available to her but she chooses outside unless I am not paying attention to her


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## CrazieJones (May 28, 2011)

I used to set up the ex pen 2'x4'. Roshi would have a pooch pad (reusuable pee pad), a safe chew, and a kong of treats (usually done in 5 min). I don't usually leave the house for too long (1-2 hrs) so I usually don't have water for him. 

Anyways... now that he is 8 mths old. I do expect him to be able to hold his waste for at least 1-2 hours. So for short trips, I take out the pad. Puddle on the floor. Sigh. 

Now I think I diagnosed it as some minor separation anxiety since the last time I went out was only 15 min to go to a corner store and I came home to a puddle on the floor.

Pad it is.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

CrazieJones said:


> I used to set up the ex pen 2'x4'. Roshi would have a pooch pad (reusuable pee pad), a safe chew, and a kong of treats (usually done in 5 min). I don't usually leave the house for too long (1-2 hrs) so I usually don't have water for him.
> 
> Anyways... now that he is 8 mths old. I do expect him to be able to hold his waste for at least 1-2 hours. So for short trips, I take out the pad. Puddle on the floor. Sigh.
> 
> ...


I guess my philosophy is a bit different. I like to go when I feel the need, and didn't see any reason for Kodi not to go when he felt the need. Also, I would MUCH rather have him have a "right" place to go in the house than to feel that he has to choose a "wrong" place on his own. So Kodi has had a litter box available to him 24/7 from the time he could toddle out of the whelping box. (his breeder litter box trained too) I couldn't honestly tell you how often he uses it, because I don't pay attention. But I can tell you that even though he asks to go out a few times a day, there are always at least a couple of wet spots in the litter in a 24 hour period. He always chooses to poop outdoors if we let him (in really bad weather, we choose to keep him in) but I wouldn't have a problem if he wanted to use the litter box that way either.

He stays comfortable, and my rugs and floors stay clean. (well, except for all the LEAVES he's dragging in right now!ound


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## Pooch (Nov 23, 2010)

Do you ever pretend to go out but actually stay home to see how you reacts when you are gone? Or video him? It would be interesting to see what he does and how he reacts when you leave him.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Pooch said:


> Do you ever pretend to go out but actually stay home to see how you reacts when you are gone? Or video him? It would be interesting to see what he does and how he reacts when you leave him.


Video taping might work, I seriously doubt most dogs would buy it if you "pretended" to leave but didn't. They are WAY too smart for that.


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## CrazieJones (May 28, 2011)

Did that when he was a pup! I set up my web cam and watched him at work one time. He did what a pup would do: howl/bark a bit, played with a flossie, nap, snack, drank, pee/poo, and repeat. LOL!

So tonight I had a condo meeting. I emptied him out first. This time I put him in his crate (no shirt yet, cuz I haven't found an old enough one). Worried about the soiling, I also wrapped a diaper around his wee wee. The meeting was longer than I thought... 2 hrs, but still reasonable. Came home, wet diaper. Sigh. So... again, soiling in his crate is not an issue for Roshi.

And yes, Roshi knows that I'm home in another room and he's not happy when "locked up" in a different room. He will be quiet for a few minutes then bark and cry like there's no tomorrow. LOL. Like... YO! I know you're out there and I'm stuck in here! But yeah, over a week ago, I had him in his pen and I went to shower. 15-20 min later, puddle on the floor. His last potty was 1 hr ago. Sigh. So now, I empty him first and then go shower. Puddle free. Guess I need to be consistent with this? However, making him pee when he doesn't have to = standing outside for a while. Winter is coming. It will suck.


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## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

CrazieJones said:


> 15-20 min later, puddle on the floor. His last potty was 1 hr ago. Sigh. So now, I empty him first and then go shower. Puddle free. Guess I need to be consistent with this? However, making him pee when he doesn't have to = standing outside for a while. Winter is coming. It will suck.


I now how you feel..Oreo would poo twice in the morning outside and then when I go shower, he always poops when i'm in the shower in his expen...lucky majority of the times on the Ugodog.

With pee it's tough because as they seem to pee alot..sometimes a drip, sometimes alot.

Oreo gets no water after 7pm and I try to empty him before we goto bed around 10pm.

Last night poor guy had to poop badly at 2am and at 5am. He is quiet sleeping and if he starts whining, I know he has to go out. Usually I have to coax him down the outside stairs but this morning he dragged me down the stairs and beelined it to his poops spot and poops right away.

What stinks is that I can't pick up his poo until when I leave for work because I can't see the poop when it's so dark out hahaha.

Separation anxiety, well, he was good last week..he would bark for 5 minutes after I left and be quiet and when i come home he is quiet. Now he barks up a storm and won;t stop for what i assume hours because when I leave he's barking and when I come home, about 3 hours later he is barking.

*sigh*


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