# Anti-social Havanese



## Rollagirl (Jul 8, 2007)

My elder Havanese, Kahlua, doesn't like strangers, She won't let strangers touch her. She also doesn't like strange dogs - she won't go near them. She's 4 years old.

When I brought her home, I socialised her as much as possible, took her to dog training for over 2 years solid, showed her for about a year as well, walk her every day. I can't understand why she's like this. My 2nd Hav, whom I got a year alter, is fine. 

Does anyone have any thoughts on why she could be behaving like this? Does anyone else's Hav behave in a similar way?

She was a pretty friendly puppy but not overly outgoing. She hated going on the lead and walking outside and was terrified of cars and horses and things like that. I thought it could have been because of the way she was kept at the breeders - very little interaction with the outside world till we brought her home. I don't think she'd seen grass till we brought her home actually.

She is so so loving and adores her family, but it's hard when wanting to go away on holidays or taking her with me places - also having people over!

Thanks,

Christine


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## Rollagirl (Jul 8, 2007)

I should also say she's super nervous and anxious all the time. She freaks out in thunderstorms and hides in the garden.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

My freddie is very shy when it comes to men. I socialized him like crazy, but it didn't help. He is still fearful of my husband and he is 2. I believe they need to be socialized starting with the breeder right away. This is only my opinion but I think if a pup is socailize the correct way from day 1, they grow up having that true havanese personality. I read something awhile back on Jan Davis's website about socailzing pups. Maybe it's still there.


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

I read a book called the Dogs Mind by Bruce Fogle. It said that alot of your dogs personality comes from the parents. If the parent are skitish, then their is a good chance that their offspring would also be. He said you can take some of it out by socializaition, but that it is inbedded in their brain.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Christine, I highly recommend a book that might help you understand Kahlua more: *"For the Love of a Dog: Understanding Emotion in You and Your Best Friend"* by Patricia McConnell.

I know a few breeders and pet owners who have read it and say it has greatly helped them know what might be going on with their dogs and how to communicate with them. I haven't read it, but it's in my cart at Amazon, http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/AS...59613-7417110?_encoding=UTF8&m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB

It is hard to know how to handle Kahlua until you really know WHY she's upset in different situations. You may never know what happened before you got her, but it's never too late to change a dog's habits, I dont' think. It takes a lot of work and consistency, but with help from books and/or training, you might be able to see some changes for the better. I agree that socialization is key, but it's also how you react that might make a difference.

She's such a pretty dog and I'm sure it's hard on you when you're out and about and she's too shy/fearful to enjoy it. I'd look into getting some professional help. She's only 4, so there are still many, long years ahead for you all. 

Good luck - keep us posted!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Oh Christine, are you talking about my Lily!!!! She is exactly the same way (as my playdate people can attest to). She is nervous around any new people, dogs, etc etc etc!! My other two are fine. The book that Paige is talking about sounds interesting, cause Lexi & Logan have the same Mom & Dad, but Lily has a different Mom & now I wonder if that is where she gets it from.
We hired a trainer to come to our house to work with Lily and she felt that it was a lack of self confidence that was her problem. We paid for a 6 week program and Shar came every week. the first 5 weeks, Lily would bark and bark and bark at her, never really let her stand withough barking, or walk thru the room, then on the 6th and last lesson, Lily was her best friend!!! It just takes her that long to trust and be comfortable with someone. I dont have a quick fix for you, cause Lily has not changed much, even though we put her thru the training exercises, although she is a little better, which I will take!!
Laurie


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

You should have seen Ricky and Sammy when our oldest, Alex, brought home 5 male friends the other night. They are 17 and 18 yrs. old and the dogs barked their heads off when they all came in and as the guys were walking through the house to get out onto the deck. Argh ! They were so scared, esp. Ricky who barked like a maniac. sigh..... 

I got them calmed down and when they saw the teens again, a little bit later, they still barked, but not quite as frantically. The kids have friends come over often, but big teen guys... well, that's another story! lol


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Marj, it is EXACTLY like that in my house. I have a 20 year old son and a 17 year old son. None of their male friends are SMALL - most of them are 6 feet tall and the dogs (expecially) Lily bark and bark and bark, the guys go downstairs to hang out and the second one peeks his head upstairs to use bathroom, get food, or leave, the dogs start up again!! The funny thing is that when they girls come over - they dogs run right to them with kisses. It has to be a male thing!!
Laurie


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Different dogs, different personalities. Like Laurie's Lilly, Kodi is the same way. He is very shy and it takes him a while to warm up to other dogs. Laurie can attest to the fact that he just sat on my lap at the playdate. He doesn't even play with my daughter's dogs and he sees them constantly. He loves people, though. A new couple just moved in next door, and he absolutely loves the guy there. 

I think when it comes to other dogs, it's the whole pack thing. He isn't really sure where he fits in, so he is shy and stays away.


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

My three have the opposite problem, they think whoever walks through my door is surely here to see them. They want to jump up and kiss all over them, Reece is the worst, he cries when I hold him back. Its something I'm still working on.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I assume your dog was a being considered as a show dog . I do not know if you have read the books by Patricia Mc Connell . She has some interesting theories about dogs and socialization . Part of it has to do with the time and the age of the dog and the type of exposure . Part of it is genetic - . 
All I know is that every dog is different .. ASta was so different from Cosmo . He was never afraidof people he loved them he was so social and at tomes I think peple who did not like dogs were put off . 
Cosmo is much more reserved but improving . He still needs work though . Ahnold has a few issues when we meet dodgs when we are walking . I have no clue why but he really loses it sometimes .. 
Fortunately I have had dogs before and I have read a lot of books so I sm coping OK ..


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Dora isn't very social too. My maltese is a social butterfly (last weekend stopping in agility to visit a bar setter and barking at the obedience judge to pet her!) Dora takes awhile to like people. She will let people pet her when I am there but she doesn't seek out attention like Isabelle. I think dogs like people have different personalities. Dora has her therapy dog certificate but she just went thru the steps when I was there with her. I don't have her do one on one visits because she doesn't really enjoy them. She takes awhile to love a person.... cookies help!

Amanda


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## Rollagirl (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks for the replies everyone. The books sound great - I'm going to give them a go. Kahlua does eventually warm to certain people - she can always tell people who love animals, and after some initial shyness will eventually lick their toes and let them pat her. She also remembers these people when they come back, which is good.

I put her in shows for a year when she was a lot younger and she was so nervous she wasn't herself and tried to snap at a judge once who bcked her onto the edge of a table.

When with her family she's the most loving dog I've ever had. She wants nothing more than to sit by my side all the time and have her belly scratched.

It's good hearing from others who have similar problems with their Havanese. Thanks so much everyone - please keep the advice and anecdotes coming if you have any!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

We have similar issues with Jasper. He was a very friendly puppy with people but fearful of other dogs--- He still doesn't like to play with other dogs other than Cash. He barks like crazy when someone comes to the door but is fine once they come in. On walks he barks and growls at cars and bikes and sometimes people walking towards us he looks like a bucking bronco. We hire a trainer who worked with us-- she pretty much was from the Cesar school of thought. Like Laurie's trainer, she thought Jasper needed more confidence and also needed to know that we were alpha, that he was trying to protect the pack, but because he was not a confident,alpha dog he went a little crazy--- we started using a choke collar to keep him always beside or behind us. if a car came we were to place him behind us, if a person came we were to place him behind us and greet the person first. Also like Laurie, it has worked only a little bit... We keep scratching our heads to figure out what we did to make him so fearful. 

good luck, keep us posted with anything you find out.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Oreo has been the same way. He has a Napoleon complex, he is insecure and yet when he is out there he wants to be a tyrannical leader. sigh...

Here's the thread:
http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=240&page=5

I am now going through Bark Busters, and they are by no means cheap  I can now see where we here at home were lacking in showing our leadership, and we are all working to ensure we are fulfilling that role. I will be keeping everyone posted on Oreo's progress. The theory is that if we can assert our "alphaness" at home then outdoors isn't so much of a challenge.... We will see about that.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Helen, I will be very interested in your experience with bark busters. I had contacted them-- but it was a bit too pricey-- but if it works...
let us know.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Missy I will, as it is only a few hours past 24hrs. Just observing that Oreo is so much calmer makes me feel better. He still is my little shadow, but I have reversed the fact that "I" demand his attention and not the other way around. He tries to do his "poke" thing to get my attention, but as hard as it is, I have been ignoring him. As soon as he gives up I call him to me and give him all the cuddles I want. Oreo is now so attentive, so when we call, he comes running!!  This is only one day, and I am sure there will continue to be challenges, but Oreo is so motivated by praise and acceptance and this is working so far. Already we ran into a few dogs outside, but when I noticed he was all "attentive" I growled and he backed down - now that was shocking!! :jaw:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

WOW! Helen that is amazing. try to describe your growl. what do you say?


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Well Missy, it is very hard to describe, but its spelled "Bah" ,but it by no means sounds like a sheep. It comes from the chest and sounds like a low growl. Oreo hears this and responds right away, but I think the key with this is that everything is on 'my' terms. Even when he is staring for attention, I must ignore him until he gives up and then I call him for cuddles. I think all the actions combined with that "bah" sound help with Oreo's response. I can't really describe it, but I am actually getting how I need to "be" and "act". At least with Oreo because he is very insecure that he needs to know that his alpha is around to protect him and the pack.


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

I have to say that Radar seems to be very quick to want to lick anyone or thing that he runs into.....:biggrin1: Radar seems genuinely happy to see people and other dogs as well although he seems to be quite standoff-ish for a couple of minutes at first but then he's sad to see the other dog go bye bye. 

Derek


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