# Biting



## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

How do I deal with this? 

Dexter outside and has a pine cone and dh tries to take the pine cone away from Dexter.....don't know why....Dexter loves those pine cones, they are prized possessions. Well...............Dexter bites dh. Needless to say, dh is very upset and Dexter does not know what is going on now. Dexter probably received the wrath of God with the bite at the moment of the bite, but he does not know what is going on with dh now. Dh is ignoring Dexter right now. 

Dexter bit me weeks ago when I tried to get soft poop out of his mouth. 

I have taught Dexter to "Trade" after that incident and it works, but you have to have the treat on you at all times. 

I have gotten a lot of things away from Dexter with the word trade.

After the bite with Dexter with dh, Dexter came running to me when he came inside. Dexter is at my feet, I pick up Dexter and held Dexter, while Dexter is watching dh....Dexter knows something is going on, because he stayed in my lap very still, watching and waiting. Now, Dexter is at my feet, while dh is in the computer room with the door closed.

Help me deal with this situation.


----------



## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Linda,
Sounds like DH has a temper? I'm sorry...hopefully someone will have some advice.


----------



## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Yea.............He is sulking. He is even avoiding me! He also feels like Dexter should be already trained to do a lot of stuff..............In your dreams! Dh will calm down after awhile, I think he needs to know a little more stuff about Havs and do more training and taking care of Dexter.

I have learned a lot of patience and love with Dexter and I am learning to read Dexter, not sure what dh is learning? I will have to bring this learning stuff up with our conversation later.


----------



## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Good luck Linda.... DH a little jealous ???? My DH just adores the dogs but every now and again I get "remember me" or "Oh, its my turn for a kiss"....get over it !!!!

My father-in-law, who lives with us (Ugh !!!) thinks dogs come all potty trained and only need to be told once. And because Evye barks at him, he thinks she hates him and doesn't know him. I am raising obnoxious baby pups so hopefully some day I will have great dogs...these are grown men so.......tough doggy poo-poo. Hopefully you will great some great advice here regarding this situation.


----------



## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

my fiance has no patience for momo now too. Any time Momo barks, he gets mad. He thinks Momo should be fully trained and just knows everything he says, even though he doesn't train him. It's hard to deal with sometimes. 

I don't know how you can deal with DH, but with the biting, it has to stop. Momo used to bite too. Whenever he did, I would flick his nose and tell him no. Not too hard of course. And if you are playing with him and he bites you, stop playing with him immediately and ignore him for a little bit. 

That's what I did, and Momo doesn't bite now. He'll put his mouth around my hand, but never bite, which is good because I can get my hand in his mouth to wipe with those dental pads.

Good luck~!


----------



## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Sheri said:


> Linda,
> Sounds like DH has a temper? I'm sorry...hopefully someone will have some advice.


If a dog bit me and I came in the house and saw that dog in a lap being loved on, I wouldn't have much patience for the situation either. Sorry, I can understand his reaction. A dog is never to bite unless you tell that dog to attack and of course that isn't your everyday dog and not a situation most will ever deal with.
I'd run not walk to someone who deals with behavior issues and let them teach me how to deal with the dog. You should never have to worry about taking anything from a dog's mouth.


----------



## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> I'd run not walk to someone who deals with behavior issues and let them teach me how to deal with the dog. You should never have to worry about taking anything from a dog's mouth.


I remember there were several Dog Whisperer episodes where Cesar would work with dogs on guarding issues like this. (They have dvd's of his show at our local library, so maybe yours will too.) It can be done, if you know what to do and how to do it. Maybe you can find a good behaviorist in your local area you can work with? I would encourage you to try to work on this issue - it is an important one, for everyone's safety, including the dog's!


----------



## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Absolutely, no biting allowed! 

But, I was picking up on another nuance of the message... Angry people can really intimidate a dog and make him feel threatened, and it's hard to see your pets (or kids,) feel threatened by an angry person and be afraid to be around them. It also tends to make the angry person just that much more angry. (I'd already PM'ed Linda...)

But, biting in itself? Not allowed!


----------



## PepperToast (Oct 27, 2008)

I would say that Dexter and your husband need to work on their relationship. If your husband is intimidating and angry Dexter will react a certain way. In my opinion it is not so much Dexter that needs the training but your husband, which is probably the harder to train of the two (as is mine). 

I don't really blame a dog for acting and reacting like a dog. They have mouths to bite and they will do so given the right triggers. One of the red flags that I pay close attention to is when a stranger with a dog I have never met to me says, "He is friendly, he would NEVER bite." You can't guarantee a dog won't bit ever no matter how well trained a dog is. Heck, I can't even guarantee you my kids won't ever bite 

But you can predict that he most likely won't ever bite if you minimize his exposure to aggressive, angry or over domineering people and dogs and keep up with the training that you are doing so Dexter's instinct will be to happily give up what he currently has.

Meeka


----------



## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

We had (sometimes still have) the same problems with Scooter. The best thing so far has been "give it" and "take it". He gives me whatever he has and takes the treat as a reward. This is what the trainer taught us, she only believes in positive reinforcement. The hard part for me is getting the kids on board with this. They'll just try to take things away and wonder why he gets crazy over it. Never a problem with the "give and take". I keep treats all over the house and outside on the porch. Hopefully sooner than later he'll understand it and not always require a treat but because it's so important I keep doing it. 
Good luck, this one takes lots of practice so don't give up. Maybe try explaining this to DH. My oldest son reacts that way and now Scooter has very little to do with him and he wonders why.


----------



## awedwards (Mar 22, 2007)

Please get help from a behaviorist AND a trainer. Biting is unacceptable even if your dog is small. From reading your post, it seems like your husband got angry after he was bitten, not while he was trying to take the pine cone away. Therefore, it isn't necessarily a fear reaction on the part of your dog. A trainer/behaviorist should be able to diagnose more accurately the reason behind the bite after meeting your dog. Unfortunately, this situation will require a lot of dedication on your part involving training and/or socialization. The good news is that all your hard work will pay off. It is not "normal" behavior for a dog to bite. During my life, I 've had lots of big working dogs (German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Leonbergers, Bernese Mountain Dogs) in addition to a Havanese. None of these guarding breeds has ever even growled at me, let alone bitten someone. There is an underlying issue with your dog or how you interact with your dog that needs to be addressed. Clearly you love your dog, so I've no doubt you'll sort it out.


----------



## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Linda, I think everyone has given you very good advice here. From seeing Dexter's age, I do think he is still very much a puppy and using his mouth to bite things is normal!

Learning not to bite people is critically important, but I think you have two issues here. The first is dealing with the biting. If you will go to http://www.dogstardaily.com/, and search for "biting," there are lots of good articles as well as training tips.

Jackson is a year and a half, and sometimes he will be going for a toy and grab part of my hand by mistake. We have worked very hard to teach him to "give" and I still need to work on the "take." He did bite me the other day jumping up to get a treat, and I had a strong reaction of "no" as well as putting my hand firmly around his mouth at the same time. Needless to say, he did not get the treat. He also likes to nip and "herd" when he wants to play. We have figured out several ways to eliminate this, but dogs will sometimes use forbidden behavior on an unknowing person (they are smart - this is where they will test the waters to see how a "new" person reacts sometimes.) Training is so important, and it is good to get other people than yourself to practice some of the same commands, including DH. My sons play rough with Jackson which gets him hyped up, and I have to remind them of the right and wrong way to play.

As far as DH, he sounds like he is trying to relate to Dexter but simply may need some knowledge on commands. I teach my DH along with Jackson, and when he gets frustrated, I show more attention to my DH than the dog! He has always said "the dogs are yours," but he loves the dogs. Did your DH grow up with dogs and ever have a good relationship with a dog? I have heard several men comment that "the dog eats better than I do," or "guess who gets the first kiss when they walk in (not me . . . the dog!)" That made me very careful that DH doesn't feel neglected while there is this cute little adorable fluffball running around. I know you will figure this out and DH and Dexter will become great buds.


----------



## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Kathy, I just read your post and so well stated. If it had happened to me, I would be feeling pretty scared and uncertain how to handle the situation. Some very good advice and support on this thread so if it ever does happen, I won't feel so lost.

And you also made a very good point about being careful not to let DH feel neglected and secondary. My DH is not typically needy so when he makes comments I will be certain to pay attention. For the most part, we are on the same page in terms of the role the 2 pups play in the household, but you opened my eyes to be more aware.


----------



## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

To clarify, there is biting and there is biting. What matters is the reason for biting. If a dog is pushed way beyond a reasonable limit (like a child is torturing it), then biting is its way of defending itself. That isn't what I'm talking about. Nor I am talking about "play" biting.

The biting issue described here sounds like a "guarding" behavior (like food guarding). You should always be able to take something out of the mouth of your dog, at all times, no matter what it is. It is for their safety as well. Dogs get into all kinds of things they shouldn't. I have removed many weird things from the mouths of my dogs, mostly Scout. At this point, when he sees me coming, he will just spit out whatever rock or bug he has. I can easily do a full finger sweep in their mouths and they will not bite me. Drop it and leave it are also wonderful commands to teach. 

I think it is easier to teach them this from the start, but I would think it isn't too late to teach it later too.  A behaviorist might have some good tips for working with a dog who has already been exhibiting this kind of behavior. Let us know how it goes!


----------



## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Hey Linda, I am sure you are really confused right now and so is DH. As much as we love our furbabies, it is not worth putting a wall between you and DH. The issue has to be worked out, between you two, and then work together with Dexter. Maybe, if you ask DH, what his thoughts are, and include him in the solution, he won't feel threaten or left out. Good luck sweetie and I hope things work out for you.


----------



## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Linda, I'm sorry to hear about the biting and the stress it's causing. My DH has had a very hard time with Marble, and I can tell you that Marble has been more stressful and more work than my two children. I feel like I spend most of my day training him.

There was a great post on growling recently (http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=6543) that I think applies. Lina's post #13 talks about how she taught Kubrick to give up anything in his mouth. Dave's post #72 showed an article that taught how to trade a treat for the item in the mouth, and Kimberly's post #30 recommended a book that looked good which I haven't read yet.

I have had this issue with Marble a little. When we play, he'll growl when I say "give", but he never bites. However, I gave him his first bully stick last week, and he turned into CUJO!!! He growled if anyone came near him. I had to get the bully stick away because I didn't want him to eat the whole thing at once. He growled, bared his teeth and bit me. He has never been that bad before, so I went back and looked through the post I mentioned. I am now trying to practice trading a treat for the bully stick. It has only slightly improved, but I am going to keep practicing.

I know you've been working on this with Dexter but can't get him to "give" without a treat (that's my problem, too). Hopefully, with practice, it will get drilled into their heads...hopefully! Good luck!
Gina


----------



## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Gina, I just saved the link you posted in the event I ever need to refer to it. Evye has never growled/bitten when I have had to take something from her mouth....when I catch her that is...but I have a feeling I might encounter this with Bentley. He hasn't yet but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. He seems to have a "temper" when he has to do something he doesn't like. Needless to say, we will be practicing drop it/take it with a vengence.


----------



## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Thanks for all the links and tips. I will be practicing with Dexter. I bought a little treat bag so I will always have a treat available to "Trade" with Dexter while outside. Dexter knows what trade means for sure.


----------



## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

JASHavanese said:


> If a dog bit me and I came in the house and saw that dog in a lap being loved on, I wouldn't have much patience for the situation either. Sorry, I can understand his reaction. A dog is never to bite unless you tell that dog to attack and of course that isn't your everyday dog and not a situation most will ever deal with.
> I'd run not walk to someone who deals with behavior issues and let them teach me how to deal with the dog. You should never have to worry about taking anything from a dog's mouth.


I AGREE, and the trading him for a treat, what's that? DH may have been wrong in his reaction but to comfort the dog in your lap after he did a bad dog, is a no no too, just my unprofessional 2 cents.


----------



## baxterboy (Mar 17, 2009)

Sam375 said:


> I AGREE, and the trading him for a treat, what's that? DH may have been wrong in his reaction but to comfort the dog in your lap after he did a bad dog, is a no no too, just my unprofessional 2 cents.


The trade for treat is something I've seen Victoria Stillwell do on It's me or the dog.... Use with the drop it command and distract them with something else.... when they drop what they have to take the new thing, you take what they have dropped.


----------



## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

This is what we were taught to do as well.


----------



## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

I do it too, trade as in drop it. They trade me for the sock in their mouth and they get the treat. On my real lucky days I get to "trade" poop for a piece of chicken. Someday it could be a piece of glass, a small object, or poisonous plant and I would want them to know what I mean when I say drop it or trade even without a treat if one is not available.


----------



## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

JASHavanese said:


> If a dog bit me and I came in the house and saw that dog in a lap being loved on, I wouldn't have much patience for the situation either. Sorry, I can understand his reaction. A dog is never to bite unless you tell that dog to attack and of course that isn't your everyday dog and not a situation most will ever deal with.
> I'd run not walk to someone who deals with behavior issues and let them teach me how to deal with the dog. You should never have to worry about taking anything from a dog's mouth.


My thought exactly. I would be pissed if after my dog bites me, I come inside and find him on my DH's lap.

If he bit your DH and you see DH is mad, then you adress the situation, this way you bring neutral energy, rather than a frustrated energy that your DH probably had (which would be normal after what happened).

PS: Also, maybe DH can learn the training techniques you are using so he can start using them as well with Dexter? Would he be willing to learn that?


----------



## baxterboy (Mar 17, 2009)

Evye's Mom;254895 On my real lucky days I get to "trade" poop for a piece of chicken. [/QUOTE said:


> LOL that made me giggle
> 
> Funny story... One night last week I'm watching tv, and I look over and Baxter has what looks like a live HUGE spider dangling from his mouth. I absolutely lost it. Usually my instinct would be to grab it right from him immediately, but I am so scared of spiders (completely unrationally) that I can't even kill them on a wall etc. So froze and I'm screaming for my husband and telling Baxter to drop it all at the same time, but I was so hysterical that he just cocked his head and looked at me so confused. So there he is, these legs dangling from his mouth, just looking up at me as if to say, "Whats all the fuss about?" Dh ran in and grabbed it with a tissue........ and needless to say, it was a rubber fake spider (one of the kids that hasn't been seen in months, but Baxter must have found it under/behind the couch etc.) LOL


----------



## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Joanne, that made me giggle !! I am right with you...spiders !!! If it were a live one, that would have taken everything I have in me to try to get the spider from him. Luckily your DH was home to get the play spider away from Baxter...LOL.


----------



## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

That is too funny!


----------



## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

baxterboy said:


> LOL that made me giggle
> 
> Funny story... One night last week I'm watching tv, and I look over and Baxter has what looks like a live HUGE spider dangling from his mouth. I absolutely lost it. Usually my instinct would be to grab it right from him immediately, but I am so scared of spiders (completely unrationally) that I can't even kill them on a wall etc. So froze and I'm screaming for my husband and telling Baxter to drop it all at the same time, but I was so hysterical that he just cocked his head and looked at me so confused. So there he is, these legs dangling from his mouth, just looking up at me as if to say, "Whats all the fuss about?" Dh ran in and grabbed it with a tissue........ and needless to say, it was a rubber fake spider (one of the kids that hasn't been seen in months, but Baxter must have found it under/behind the couch etc.) LOL


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Thanks for that! Also the POOP trade! I needed a chuckle!


----------



## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Harry just runs away from me when he sees me coming.


----------



## TobyBaby (Mar 8, 2008)

Totally unrelated...but I am in LOVE with Baxter. My goodness he is a cutie.


----------



## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

TobyBaby said:


> Totally unrelated...but I am in LOVE with Baxter. My goodness he is a cutie.


I totally agree.


----------



## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Get a trainer...*

The trainer will help hubbie understand the dog...and it won't be you having to do it. It helps when an expert talks to our dear husbands...truly.


----------

