# Any thoughts on this breeder in MN?



## chelsea

Any one heard of or had experience with www.charminlapwarmers.com in MN?
They have a few older pups available ~ 4-5mths old. Very cute looking. Sent me videos of the pups. They look well cared for & she seemed very gentle with them. I am in CT so I will fly out to pick one up but can't fly out for just a look-see that's why I asked for videos.
Should i be wary of this one. I have visited so many sites & spoken to so many people I am going a little stir-crazy weeding out the good ones from the bad.
Thanks for your help


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## krandall

OK, any time I see a breeder associated with "Next Day Pets" I get worried. Next there is no mention of them health testing their breeders. (they should have radiographs of hips, elbows and patellas after the age of two, eyes checked (CERF) annually, heart checked, results recorded with OFA) many also do liver and thyroid panels. I'm not saying they don't do it, but their prices look too low to me, and most good breeders are proud that their dogs are health tested, and say so on the web site. Next is that mixed breed puppy. Breeders who maintain more than one breed need to MAKE SURE this doesn't happen!!! Even if it was an "oops" (in fairness, it might well have been) IMO, they should just be looking for a good home for that puppy, not selling it as a "Havabolo"!

Finally is the contract. Basically, there's nothing in there to protect the buyer. Unless your puppy develops a genetic disorder AND it is serious enough to be life threatening, AND it happens before the puppy is 14 months old, you're out of luck. (remember that x-rays on dogs used for breeding can't be taken BEFORE they are 2 years old... there is a reason for that!) Even if something horrible happens to the puppy, you are stuck holding the bag with all the vet bills, and they will (hopefully) give you another one within 9 months. (Oh, but YOU have to pay to go get it or have it shipped) What a deal. This is one of those contracts that may sound like a "guarantee", but they guarantee nothing of value. If your darling puppy needs patella surgery at 12 months, and is hopping around on 3 legs, you're going to go ahead and pay for his surgery... not send him back to the breeder and ask "for another puppy, please."

If I were you, I'd keep looking. I KNOW there are good, reputable breeders out there. You might have to get on a waiting list for a puppy, but it will be worth the wait!


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## chelsea

1 agree with you on all counts except the one thing that swayed me was the videos she sent of her with the pups & she seemed to treat them beautifully & they in turn seemed well-cared for but you r so right about the lack of health testing & the price. Thanks for confirming what I already knew to be true but was hoping I was wrong.
One more ? I just read a contract from an accredited breeder of merit according to the akc & her contract guarantee was equally restrictive. And she was charging the earth, moon & the stars. She does have all the health tests done tho. Should that contract be a red flag & if so what should I expect in terms of a guarantee in a legit contract.
Thanks again. You are all so informative


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## chelsea

I think I have found my dream puppy from Jennifer Manders honor havanese. The pup's parents have all the official health tests done & the pup is gorgeous! A chocolate female born 8.10.13. Am very excited to bring her home


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## krandall

chelsea said:


> 1 agree with you on all counts except the one thing that swayed me was the videos she sent of her with the pups & she seemed to treat them beautifully & they in turn seemed well-cared for but you r so right about the lack of health testing & the price. Thanks for confirming what I already knew to be true but was hoping I was wrong.
> One more ? I just read a contract from an accredited breeder of merit according to the akc & her contract guarantee was equally restrictive. And she was charging the earth, moon & the stars. She does have all the health tests done tho. Should that contract be a red flag & if so what should I expect in terms of a guarantee in a legit contract.
> Thanks again. You are all so informative


Well, I just want you to be aware of what a contract is and isn't. IMO, a breeder should stand behind rheir puppies. But even among "top" breeders, as you've seen, contracts do vary. Although there are no absolutes when it comes to health and animals, your best "guarantee" is to purchase from a breeder who takes proper health testing (and therefore the well-being of the breed as a whole!) seriously.

As far as the video is concerned, all puppies are cute, and most backyard breeders try to convince themselves that they are doing the things they do for the right reasons. I'm sure she DOES love her dogs, but she is not acting in the best interest of the breed OR her puppy buyers if she is not health testing.


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## SJ1998

chelsea said:


> I think I have found my dream puppy from Jennifer Manders honor havanese. The pup's parents have all the official health tests done & the pup is gorgeous! A chocolate female born 8.10.13. Am very excited to bring her home


Jennifer's dogs are super cute!


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## chelsea

Oh Good - such a relief to hear that. I tried to upload a pic of her. Not sure if I was successful. Anyway she's super cute. 11wks


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## krandall

chelsea said:


> Oh Good - such a relief to hear that. I tried to upload a pic of her. Not sure if I was successful. Anyway she's super cute. 11wks


She is very cute! Just be aware, that it looks like she's going to be a lot lighter than that as an adult. See how much lighter she is around her nose and eyes? Not that color is that big a deal, I just don't want you to have your heart set on a deep chocolate dog, because I don't think she'll stay that way.

But she does breed very nice dogs. I believe a good friend of mine got her foundation sire, Ch. Honor Jump Jive Jimmy, from her. Not only is he a gorgeous dog, but he has produced a lot of gorgeous pups!


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## SJ1998

krandall said:


> She is very cute! Just be aware, that it looks like she's going to be a lot lighter than that as an adult. See how much lighter she is around her nose and eyes? Not that color is that big a deal, I just don't want you to have your heart set on a deep chocolate dog, because I don't think she'll stay that way.
> 
> But she does breed very nice dogs. I believe a good friend of mine got her foundation sire, Ch. Honor Jump Jive Jimmy, from her. Not only is he a gorgeous dog, but he has produced a lot of gorgeous pups!


I saw the pictures of Jump Jive Jimmy and the puppy she is showing also on the other thread - so cute!!!

There's another one of Jennifer's dogs on here. When I was puppy shopping and lurking I remember seeing pictures of him...another cutie. I didn't get my dog from Jennifer, mine is from Lynn but a lot of Jennifer's foundation dogs are from Lynn. ...so cute. Love the Starborn dogs too though like your Kodi.


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## SJ1998

chelsea said:


> Oh Good - such a relief to hear that. I tried to upload a pic of her. Not sure if I was successful. Anyway she's super cute. 11wks


Beautiful, what a face!


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## chelsea

Thanks for the tip re color. I had read about the havanese tendency to change colors so I am prepared for whatever happens. She'll still be adorable to me. Her sire is a rich solid chocolate so poss for some of that choc to remain?
Picking her up Sunday.


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## krandall

SJ1998 said:


> I saw the pictures of Jump Jive Jimmy and the puppy she is showing also on the other thread - so cute!!!
> 
> There's another one of Jennifer's dogs on here. When I was puppy shopping and lurking I remember seeing pictures of him...another cutie. I didn't get my dog from Jennifer, mine is from Lynn but a lot of Jennifer's foundation dogs are from Lynn. ...so cute. Love the Starborn dogs too though like your Kodi.


Yes, the Starborn dogs are a different "type", but both lines produce lovely dogs with good dispositions. It's a matter of what type appeals to you and what you want to do with the dog. I think most of my friend, Pam Sowa's, dogs have Lynn's dogs in their background, and you couldn't find a sweeter group of dogs!


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## krandall

chelsea said:


> Thanks for the tip re color. I had read about the havanese tendency to change colors so I am prepared for whatever happens. She'll still be adorable to me. Her sire is a rich solid chocolate so poss for some of that choc to remain?
> Picking her up Sunday.


It's definitely possible. Some chocolates lighten and then darken again. Some just as they mature, others do it throughout their lives. (other colors do that too) She WILL be adorable, no matter what her adult color is. I just wanted to make sure you knew how they change. We had another lady who bought a sable (and they ALWAYS change... often A LOT!!!) and was very upset with her breeder when the dog started to lighten in late puppyhood. Glad to hear you understand that color change is part of the charm of the breed!


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## chelsea

"Yes, the Starborn dogs are a different "type", but both lines produce lovely dogs with good dispositions. It's a matter of what type appeals to you and what you want to do with the dog. I think most of my friend, Pam Sowa's, dogs have Lynn's dogs in their background, and you couldn't find a sweeter group of dogs!"

Can u explain what u mean by a different 'type'. Thanks


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## krandall

Lynn's dogs tend to have a little shorter noses, and a denser undercoat. The Starborn dogs have a little longer noses, and a less dense undercoat. Both are well within breed standard, but there are "family resemblances" you can see between one group and the other. Neither is "right" or "wrong", it's just a matter of preference.


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## SJ1998

Yes, my boy is very sweet, has that bouncy gait, and the big eyes. He will be a year old in November. He's never sick and smart as hell. I am a proud dog mom! I really need to do more with him as far as training goes, he really seems to like it. I dont know if this is true of all of her dogs, but mine is very high energy. He's not hyper or uncontrollable, but he's always ready to go somewhere. He never says no to a walk, wants to play fetch all of the time and if no one plays with him (us or our other dog), he creates his own games throwing his toys around himself. When we go for a walk, if someone says "cute dog" he amps up the bouncy gait significantly. It's very funny. He never has a bad day. When he first came to live with us, he was a little whiny the first few nights as normal, and in the car, but he doesnt do that at all now. We ignored him per instructions and that worked the best.

When you bring her home you will have a lot of questions and this forum will be invaluable! Krandall has helped me a lot with training and general advice and there are many other helpful members.


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## Suzi

chelsea said:


> Thanks for the tip re color. I had read about the havanese tendency to change colors so I am prepared for whatever happens. She'll still be adorable to me. Her sire is a rich solid chocolate so poss for some of that choc to remain?
> Picking her up Sunday.


 She is so cute. I see her keeping a lot of brown with a ring of cream around her nose. That will be even cuter than what she looks like now. What does the mom look like?


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## chelsea

The mom is a black & white parti, with some creamy bits too. She has just retired. Dad is solid choc & much younger.

I am looking forward to getting her home & starting bonding & training. Have been looking through some training & grooming discussions on this forum & I agree - Krandall gives good advice. This is my first havanese but not my first puppy by any means. Have had many pups thru the years & boy have training techniques changed dramatically in 30+ years! For the better!
Each time I have a pup I learn something new & each time I start over I try to do a better job than I did the time before.


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