# Help! I think I need a potty training reality check . . .



## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Hi All,

My DH and I were so frustrated last night with Rolllie. He is doing so well with so many things, but he is still really unpredictable with peeing. First, let me say that we have the routine DOWN. He is very happy to go outside and never goes #2 inside. But particularly in the evenings, he is still having a pee accident around 1x/week. We learned that we still need to potty him every 20 minutes if we're playing in the house whether it's day or night - okay, fine. But the thing is that he still needs to either be in his playpen or crate or we need to be completely occupying his attention - I read someone else describe their pup as "busy" and that's exactly what Rollie is. You can't take your eyes off him because he will start exploring. And because he still has accidents, we just can't let him do that (and we have him properly confined to appropriate spaces so that's not my issue). Mostly, as I already said, accidents happen at night. And they're usually inexplicable surprises. This is what happened last night.

He'd just been out to pee. He was really sleepy (he'd been kind of dosing off in his playpen - it was around 10) and I thought it would be a good time to try sitting on the couch with him while we watched TV since he'd probably go to sleep. Well, he was excited about this, but overall did fine until he decided to jump down from the couch, grab a toy and start running around. No problem - we start our usual get-the-puppy-to-come-to-us-tricks, but he was in full zoomies. Then, as I went to scoop him up, my arm was wet. He'd been laying on the floor fully excited and peed and was in fact still peeing (a little) when I grabbed him. He's now nearly 21 weeks and I didn't expect that he'd still get overexcited and pee even though he'd just been outside 10 minutes before. 

It just seems like we can't do anything with him yet except confine him, take him outside, or completely occupy his full attention and desperately watch his every move. 

So now I need a reality check. I know he's still really young and I think he's entered that "regression phase" too b/c his attention has taken a nose dive and he's become more stubborn. It will get better, right? We'll eventually have a dog that we can let sit with us and play on the floor by our feet, right?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Jessica, sounds like you're doing the right things. This sort of accident can happen. Stick with your program. Big rewards for going outside. And NO scolding in ANY way for mistakes. here's another aritcle. http://apdt.ie/index.php/articles/house-training/ Actually he is getting near the adolescent stage and here's an article about that. http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/adolescent-dog-training-18-weeks-2-years


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Our Nellie who is 14 months old,still has excitement wee accidents very occasionally,and although it is a nuisance,she can't help it, it is not as if she is doing it on purpose,so we just put up with it,we kind of know the things that trigger it and try to avoid those situations,but dogs will be dogs!!


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Dave, the articles on adolescence are really helpful. I feel as though I'm getting somewhat mixed info on the best approach at this age. In some places I read that you should avoid any potentially frightening experiences starting at 6 months or so, but as this article states, I also keep hearing you need to keep socializing them and in fact, socialize MORE. I've always taken the stance of more experiences are always better so I am happy to read these articles that indicate that it is okay to keep giving adolescent pups new experiences.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Yeah Jessica, it's a never ending process but especially at this time. It's always advisable to avoid scary situations but not at the cost of socialization.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Patience and Love! 

I am still dealing with poo accidents from Jack and he is over a year. I have to be on the look-out for Jack's behavior... increased anxiety like wandering near the doors, taking him out after naps, before meals...after meals...etc....and that does not guarantee there will not be an accident in the house as soon as we get in the house or very soon. 

Jack is too busy outside with discovery of new stuff and is too busy to do the important task first (stool).

Dave...I need to read those articles again! Thanks for posting them!


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

HavaneseSoon said:


> Patience and Love!
> 
> I am still dealing with poo accidents from Jack and he is over a year. I have to be on the look-out for Jack's behavior... increased anxiety like wandering near the doors, taking him out after naps, before meals...after meals...etc....and that does not guarantee there will not be an accident in the house as soon as we get in the house or very soon.
> 
> ...


I totally feel your frustration. I'm in the same boat as the rest of you -Eli is 14 months and we still have occasional pee and poop accidents. This pee accidents happens 1 or 2 x a week at night. He sleeps in the room next to ours and I have to block his ability to get the first floor or he will pee down there. This morning, for the first time in forever, he left poop by the sliding glass door! I was so surprised (he normally doesn't do #2 until his 11 AM walk.) He's on a feeding and walking schedule which we adhere to pretty well, with small variances depending on what's going on. I recently purchased a Petzoom in the hopes he would use it if he needed to go inside but no luck.

I honestly don't know if he will ever be "perfect" in this area and it is so worrisome. I took the kids to the beach for 3 hours yesterday and the whole time was anxious to get back because I was worried about this. We have vacation planned next month and I honestly don't know what to do with him. I can't give him to relatives knowing he may soil their house. Not sure if the vet's office is an option because I don't think they adhere to any type of schedule and I worry he will lose all his housebreaking know how.

Not sure my rant helped but know that we're all in the same boat. Except for this one thing he is a fabulous dog and that gives me a lot of comfort and patience to deal with his occasional accidents.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

HavaneseSoon said:


> Patience and Love!
> 
> I am still dealing with poo accidents from Jack and he is over a year. I have to be on the look-out for Jack's behavior... increased anxiety like wandering near the doors, taking him out after naps, before meals...after meals...etc....and that does not guarantee there will not be an accident in the house as soon as we get in the house or very soon.
> 
> ...


Kodi went through a phase like that, Linda. I found that for us, the answer was to take him out on a flexi, stand in one spot and tell him to poop. Once he went, we'd let him loose for some fun run around time. But he knew when he was on the flexi, it was time for business, no play allowed.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ellie NY said:


> I totally feel your frustration. I'm in the same boat as the rest of you -Eli is 14 months and we still have occasional pee and poop accidents. This pee accidents happens 1 or 2 x a week at night. He sleeps in the room next to ours and I have to block his ability to get the first floor or he will pee down there. This morning, for the first time in forever, he left poop by the sliding glass door! I was so surprised (he normally doesn't do #2 until his 11 AM walk.) He's on a feeding and walking schedule which we adhere to pretty well, with small variances depending on what's going on. I recently purchased a Petzoom in the hopes he would use it if he needed to go inside but no luck.
> 
> I honestly don't know if he will ever be "perfect" in this area and it is so worrisome. I took the kids to the beach for 3 hours yesterday and the whole time was anxious to get back because I was worried about this. We have vacation planned next month and I honestly don't know what to do with him. I can't give him to relatives knowing he may soil their house. Not sure if the vet's office is an option because I don't think they adhere to any type of schedule and I worry he will lose all his housebreaking know how.
> 
> Not sure my rant helped but know that we're all in the same boat. Except for this one thing he is a fabulous dog and that gives me a lot of comfort and patience to deal with his occasional accidents.


Hi Ellie, The peeing thing is a much bigger issue, since it's happening on a pretty regular basis. I don't know an answer to this other than the "go back to basics and confine more closely" advice. As far as a SINGLE poop accident, especially where it was right near a door, I'd be inclined to think something just made is tummy NOT on clock-work that morning, and he just couldn't hold it. Kodi ALMOST never needs to poop before we take him out in the morning, but there have been a couple of occasions that he has during the year and 1/4 that I would consider him to have been completely "house trained". The difference is that although he HATES going in the house, he does have (and understands how to use) a litter box. So when he has needed to poop early in the morning, that's where we find it.

I know that's not a huge help to you, because I think it's probably pretty hard to teach a dog who has been taught that it's never OK to go in the house to now use an indoor potty. But I wouldn't consider a single accident by the door a sign that he hasn't internalized that part of his house training. I think that truly was an "accident", beyond his control.

The peeing 1-2x per week, though, that's not an accident, that's a habit. Is there a reason that you don't crate him at night? Have to consulted a local trainer who might be able to help you to set things up physically for greater success?


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Thanks Karen! I was afraid I was going to have to leash him when I took him out...to do business first, then play later.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

jessegirl said:


> Hi All,
> 
> My DH and I were so frustrated last night with Rolllie. He is doing so well with so many things, but *he is still really unpredictable with peeing*. First, let me say that we have the routine DOWN. He is very happy to go outside and never goes #2 inside. *But particularly in the evenings, he is still having a pee accident around 1x/week*. We learned that we still need to potty him every 20 minutes if we're playing in the house whether it's day or night - okay, fine.


Originally posted by *Ellie*: ... *pee accidents happens 1 or 2 x a week at night*

Do you leave water out for him in the evening? If so, you might consider picking up or emptying his bowl after a certain time.

We pick up their water between 7 - 8 pm so that their bladders won't fill up again after their last potty walk between 10 and 11 pm.

I am usually up and about in the morning before I hear from Buster around 7 am [later on the weekends, thank you very much!].


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

The books don't really talk about this housebreaking difficulty, but I can say from seeing so much of it on this forum for the last several years that Havanese are not the easiest to housebreak. They certainly are smart, but just as quirky with their potty habits as they are their eating habits. I can say that GUcci wasn't 99% reliable until she was about 2, yep.....2 and to this day she will have an occasional 'accident' if she is left home alone, but I honestly think that she gets so anxious she just has to go  its either that, or being spiteful..lol and anxiety just sounds better.



> Originally posted by Ellie: ... pee accidents happens 1 or 2 x a week at night


Have you considered maybe laying a pee pad or litter box down in the area she goes? We keep one in our bathroom for Gucci and she goes on it 2-3 times a week, especially if its raining outside..or maybe she just can't wake me up? sigh.

Kara


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> The peeing 1-2x per week, though, that's not an accident, that's a habit. Is there a reason that you don't crate him at night? Have to consulted a local trainer who might be able to help you to set things up physically for greater success?


Karen - I think you're right. Last night I tried to limit his access downstairs and woke up extra early to walk him but he peepeed on the carpeted stairs! It's definitely become a habit and one I need to break quickly!!

One of the issues that I am aware of that is not helping the situation is how late I remove his water bowl. It's been so hot in the Northeast that it seems cruel to remove his water dish at 7:00 PM when his last walk is around 9:30 PM and he's parched after.

The reason I don't crate him is because he cries and cries. DH loves, loves, loves, loves him and gets angry at me if I try to crate him or close the door to Eli's room (because in addition to the crying he scratches relentlessly on the door). DH will get up and let him out!

Eli will not potty if he sleeps in the room with us, but I just taught him to sleep outside of our room because of my allergies! However, I may need to confine him in our bedroom (and suffer the consequences) to extinguish this bad habit.


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

Thumper said:


> The books don't really talk about this housebreaking difficulty, but I can say from seeing so much of it on this forum for the last several years that Havanese are not the easiest to housebreak. They certainly are smart, but just as quirky with their potty habits as they are their eating habits. I can say that GUcci wasn't 99% reliable until she was about 2, yep.....2 and to this day she will have an occasional 'accident' if she is left home alone, but I honestly think that she gets so anxious she just has to go  its either that, or being spiteful..lol and anxiety just sounds better.
> 
> Have you considered maybe laying a pee pad or litter box down in the area she goes? We keep one in our bathroom for Gucci and she goes on it 2-3 times a week, especially if its raining outside..or maybe she just can't wake me up? sigh.
> 
> Kara


Kara - I have layed pee pads and the PetZoom in areas where I see that he goes but he totally ignores them. He seems to potty in the general area but not in the same place, give or take a few feet. I've tried to find articles that discuss paper training a housebroken dog but there aren't many and those few blogs that I've read say it's a really bad idea, very confusing for the dog.

We have a real problem when it rains or there's snow. If we could just fix this one little thing our lives would be ever so much easier.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ellie NY said:


> Eli will not potty if he sleeps in the room with us, but I just taught him to sleep outside of our room because of my allergies! However, I may need to confine him in our bedroom (and suffer the consequences) to extinguish this bad habit.


What would happen if you crated him right beside your bed, the way you would with a new puppy? If he could tolerate that, you might get him used to the crate enough that eventually you could move it to another room.

I would really talk to DH about the importance of getting him used to a crate. A time may come when he is hurt, or you want to take him on vacation somewhere that they won't tolerate a dog who isn't completely reliable in terms of potty training, and then you have a real problem if he isn't used to a crate.

You might want to consider visiting Susan Garrett's "Say Yes Dog TRaining" website, and purchase her DVD called "Crate Games". Using her method, you can teach Eli to LOVE his crate. You don't even need to do ALL the exercises, though they are fun, and great general training for the dog too.

I think by the time we reached level 3 (of many!) in Crate Games, Kodi was making a bee-line into his crate any time we said, "In your crate!" It makes things so easy that Kodi loves his crate. When we travel, whether we are staying in a hotel room or our RV, he's not only "OK" with staying in his crate, he will choose to go there and hang out, even if the door is removed from the crate. So we don't have to worry about leaving him in the room while we go out for dinner. We know he'll be perfectly happy while we're gone.

As far as withholding water is concerned... I'm with you, I don't like to do it. Kodi always has water available, even in his crate. He never has trouble holding it over night, (and hasn't since he was about 12 weeks old) even though he has access to water when he wants it. So I'm not at all sure that's what is causing Eli to pee in the house at night.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

While we pick up the water bowl by around 8 pm, the dogs sometimes let us know they are thirsty by basically sitting near the bowl and looking at one of us. 

At that point, we put a small amount of water in the bowl - to wet his/her whistle. S/he laps it up and usually doesn't repeat the sitting and staring routine but will go off and play. 

If the dog did repeat the I'm thirsty routine, we would give some more water. In the morning, they get to drink as much as they need/want. 

If we did not pick up the water, then one or both of the dogs would wake me up before my 5:30 am alarm during the week. The weekend's morning sleeping in would also be disturbed.

Note that they are not denied needed water, but they also don't get to fill up their bladders before bedtime.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

StarrLhasa said:


> While we pick up the water bowl by around 8 pm, the dogs sometimes let us know they are thirsty by basically sitting near the bowl and looking at one of us.
> 
> At that point, we put a small amount of water in the bowl - to wet his/her whistle. S/he laps it up and usually doesn't repeat the sitting and staring routine but will go off and play.
> 
> ...


I know a lot of dog people do this, and I've never heard a dog harmed by it. But it goes against everything I know about animal husbandry in general. So I choose not to. Kodi does get up around 6:30 AM, but I think that's more because that's what he's used to with my husband's schedule. He also goes to bed between 8:30-9 PM, so it has been quite a long time, with or without water. He also has a litter box available if he REALLY needs it, but he seldom uses it, preferring to go outside.

Kodi's body is on the same schedule whether it's week day or week end... On the weekends, one of us takes him out for a quick potty, gives him his breakfast and then we all go back to sleep as long as we want. Maybe we were trained by two kids, but we can do that early morning thing in zombie mode, and never really totally wake up!


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Hi All,

It is helpful to be reminded that potty training takes time. It is easy to expect too much especially when they're doing really well in other areas . . . I am still hoping that he'll learn to tell us when he needs to pee and I'll keep using that bell. One day we'll be able to relax - hopefully before another year passes!


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

Just an update, the potty accidents continue. Unfortunately, now we've had 2 pee accidents during the day! 

I've made several changes in the last few days to go back to housebreaking basics. First, I'm doing a variety of the things to help him love his crate again. I'm taking this slowly. 

I had him sleep in my room for a few nights but my allergies got so bad I realized I needed to move him out. His crate is in my office which is the room next to our bedroom. This is his room and where he normally sleeps at night except he could come and go at will. Last night I used an expen to create a large area outside of the bedroom and placed pads down on the floor. I figured he still had a good amoutn of mobility, felt close to our bedroom, but couldn't get too far. He cried on and off last night. I guess he just doesn't like the confinement. Anyway, no potty accident at night.

Today I took him for his walk at 6:30 and 11:00 (20 min each). He didn't pee on his 11 (which isn't all that unusual as he sometimes alternates) and pulled me home. Thirty minutes later he did pee pee in the middle of the living room! 

Words cannot express my frustration. I believe I read somewhere that "teenagers regress" so I'm trying to be patient. The past couple of weeks have been rough. If this gets worse or deteriorates further I may have to take it a step further and limit his mobility during the day.

I'm also thinking about calling a trainer but, honestly, I don't know what he/she would tell me that I don't already know. Any and all suggestions still welcome.


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Ellie, I can feel your frustration - I feel so upset every time he has an accident, almost like WE'RE somehow failing even though I KNOW we're doing everything we can do.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

*Reality Potty Check*

All Havs are different -

Jack ..... I think has finally got it! He has not had a poo accident in the house at least 2 weeks. He has been ringing the bells to go outside and poo'd each time going outside.

Jack is 16 months old.

We do not take up our water. We live in the East and temperatures are in the mid 90's. Dexter is my water drinker.

If your pup drinks water in the evening, then plan on taking them outside within 30-45 minutes.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ellie NY said:


> Just an update, the potty accidents continue. Unfortunately, now we've had 2 pee accidents during the day!
> 
> I've made several changes in the last few days to go back to housebreaking basics. First, I'm doing a variety of the things to help him love his crate again. I'm taking this slowly.
> 
> ...


I feel your frustration. If it makes you feel any better, Kodi regressed in his "teenage" months a couple of times, and we had to go right back to confining him to the kitchen and piece of the family room that has no rug for a few weeks. It feels SO frustrating when you are in the midst of it. but if you are consistent about confining them until they are reliable, they DO get it eventually!


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> I feel your frustration. If it makes you feel any better, Kodi regressed in his "teenage" months a couple of times, and we had to go right back to confining him to the kitchen and piece of the family room that has no rug for a few weeks. It feels SO frustrating when you are in the midst of it. but if you are consistent about confining them until they are reliable, they DO get it eventually!


Karen - I really appreciate your support. You're always so fantastic with me and others in lending support and sanity! This forum has been so helpful. I realize I'm just as responsible for Eli's behavior (if not more so) as he is and I remind myself we're both on a learning curve. I'm trying to have patience with us both.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ellie NY said:


> Karen - I really appreciate your support. You're always so fantastic with me and others in lending support and sanity! This forum has been so helpful. I realize I'm just as responsible for Eli's behavior (if not more so) as he is and I remind myself we're both on a learning curve. I'm trying to have patience with us both.


I think we love these little guys SOmuch that we want them to be "perfect"... And we think WE need to be "perfect parents".. I know every time Kodi had an accident, I felt like it was a personal failure on my part.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

All you frustrated puppy owners, hang in there and stay the course! I swear, you will wake up one day and realize, he/she got it! It's like they get it overnight! Once they do, life gets so much easier. It Bella and Fred a year to get it.


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

Hi All. Wanted to give you a 1+ week update. As I mentioned before, we began confining Eli in his bedroom over night. We keep the door open but use the xpen to make a V so he has some room to leave and can keep on eye on our bedroom doors. Since we began nighttime confinement he's obviously had no opportunity to run downstairs to pee during the night. This seems to have also curtailed accidents during the day. So, a little over a week ago he'd begun having regular nightly accidents and a few daytime accidents, we've now had none (knock on wood) and we've had to leave him alone for longer stretches than normal. 

If this continues in the next couple of weeks I will slowly start to ween his walks down. We currently walk him 5 - 6 times a day and I think we haven't done him any favors by not helping him learn to hold it. I'd like to get to a place where we walk him 3 - 4 times a day but we'll do that slowly.

I've also continued to acclimate him to his crate during the day. He will snooze there sometimes but he, understandably, prefers the cooler wood floors. We're at the point where I will entice him into his crate with a treat and close the door for a few minutes. I leave the room and there's silence. So far so good.:whoo:

My next big "to-do" is to get him to walk on leash. Currently, he walks me! Taking leisurely walks at the park are a total chore. I've watched a few Youtube videos and read some articles but I can't quite master the click-treat, correct, click-treat thing yet. Plus, all the snacks gave him an upset stomach! uke:

Hope I've given those dealing with potty training some hope!


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

We continue to struggle .. . DH and I had to go away for a few days and Rollie had 2 accidents for my mom and one for us the night we got home (I thought he was just doing his post-bath zoomies and he zoomie'd right into the corner and pee'd). I actually bought a 15 ft. lead that I can tie around my waste and keep him somewhat confined when I'm moving around the house. Unfortunately he can now jump out of his playpen and even though we are using the top mesh now, he gets angry when he can't get out and ends up shaking the whole works up and spilling his water everywhere . . . Teenagers!!!!!

Elllie, we're working on the walks too. It is so hard to click and treat a dog that is barely a foot off the ground!


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## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

I bought a new rug for the dining room, and it's waiting in the garage for the day I'm done potty training. That's my note to self: don't give up hope!


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