# Differnt foods



## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

Well, I work at a petstore(we focus on selling high quality foods and dog/cat products, NOT dogs/cats  ) and on our slow days I have been gathering information on some of the differnt foods in our store. I hope this is the right place, but I guess I will post the list here!
(I left off "grocery" foods, such as pedigree, bentaful, as 1) we hardly carry any, and 2) its not a food I would ever reccomend feeding a Havanese! I also left off the Iams/Eukanuva/Science Diet because of Corn/Byproducts. None of the foods listed have either)

The first few are in order of how I would(and am) feeding my dogs:

*Natures Varity Instinct(Chicken) *
Protien: 42%
Fat: 22%
Contains:
olive oil, flaxseed oil, sunflower oil, tapioka, pumpkinseed, alphalfa, clay, and too many vitamins/minerals to list!
*Grain Free*

*Timberwolf(Origional formula)*
Protien: 36%
Fat: 22%
Contains:
Salmon oil, eggs, milk, kepl, palphalfa, blueberrys, cranberrys
*Grain Free*

*Wellness Core*
Protien: 34%
Fat: 14%
Contains:
Salmon oil, canola oil, Kale, Apples, Blueberrys
*Grain Free*

*Innova Evo*
Protien: 42%
Fat: 22%
Contains: Eggs, apples, garlic, alphalfa, cottage cheeze, chicory root
*Grain Free*

*Blue Wilderness*
Protien: 42%
Fat: 16%
Contains:
Rosemary Oil, Herring Oil, Oatmeal, Blueberrys, Cranberrys, Alphalfa, kelp, Yucca, Green Tea
*Grain Free*

*Nutro Ultra*
Protien:28%
Fat: 16%
Contains:
Soybean, fish, nd sunflower oil, kelp
*Grain Free*

*Eagle Pack Hollistic*
Protien: 24%
Fat: 15%
Contains: Fish oil, oatmeal, beets, anchovy, egg, alphalpha, apples, Yucca

Others:

*Wellness Super 5 Mix*
Protien: 22%
Fat: 12%
Contains: Canola oil

*Prarie by Natures Variety*
Protien: 26%
Fat: 14%
Contains: Olive oil, Flaxseed oil, salmon oil, kepl, clay, tapioka

*Merric(Grammys Pot Pie)*
Protien: 23%
Fat:16%
Contains: Canola oil

*Soild gold(Just a Wee Bit)*
Protien: 22%
Fat: 10%
Contains: Sesme and almond oil

*Taste of the Wild*
Protien: 32%
Fat: 18%
Contains:

The ingrediants listed in the "contains" section are by no means all that is in this food, just the "special" ingrediants that stuck out to me as either unique or especually benaficial. There may very well be mistakes on this page, so correct me if Im wrong on anything, but I just thought I would share!

Thanks,
Natasha

p.s. at the moment my girls are on Wellness Core, but as soon as they are done with this bag they will be going on Instinct by Natures Variety.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Natasha, that was very nice of you to compile that list! Although my guys are on special vet perscribed diets, I am sure there are a lot of Hav owners who could benefit from this!! Good job!


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

Thanks, there are a lot of other good foods out there, but these are just some we carry. By the way, I know I kept spelling Different wrong  My computer keys are sticking


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Oh thanks Natasha = thats a good one "keys are sticking"ound: I am going to have to use that excuse too - I was unable to come up with one for my terrible spelling!!ound:


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

lol, "typing fast" always works too  lol!!


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## Dawna (Aug 3, 2006)

I know less than nothing about canine nutrition, but the amounts of protein in some of these foods kinda worries me. Can high protein amounts cause bladder and or kidney problems in toys breeds? (ie, bladder crystals, etc.) I know dogs would get an even higher percentage of protein that this, 'in the wild', but our little havs are pretty much removed from that at this point. hehe
Just curious if any of you guys know or have had experience with this?
Dawna


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Well I can tell you that Lily had bladder crystals, causing infections, one of them a staph infection. Dr. put her on special SO diet, then we changed to CD diet, but all 3 started getting FAT so they are on the WD weight control diet. I dont keep the bag, so I never read it, I just freeze their food in ziplocs. I guess the next time I get a bag I should check, but I would assume that protein is the big issue. Lily is not supposed to have cheese, peanut butter, or any treats other than her perscribed diet - so protein must be the issue with her!


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

We just bought a new bag of "Solid Gold Just a Wee Bit" and it lists the following:

Crude Protein = 28% min
Crude Fat = 18% min

This is a bison/salmon based food for those dogs that might have allergies to beef/chicken/lamb.

Both Pepper and April are doing great on this brand. I also like it because the kibble is tiny for their little mouths.

Wanda


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## elregalohavanese (Jun 20, 2007)

*foods*

I have to agree about the proteins. Those percentages seem rather high. We are new to toy breeds but used to have great danes and were always told to never feed them anything over 18% protein. We have always feed our dogs foods that fit in that category with good results. Does anyone know of a study with the protein amounts for toy dogs or any other health related problems. Susan


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## Lola (Mar 22, 2007)

Laurief said:


> Well I can tell you that Lily had bladder crystals, causing infections, one of them a staph infection. Dr. put her on special SO diet, then we changed to CD diet, but all 3 started getting FAT so they are on the WD weight control diet. I dont keep the bag, so I never read it, I just freeze their food in ziplocs. I guess the next time I get a bag I should check, but I would assume that protein is the big issue. Lily is not supposed to have cheese, peanut butter, or any treats other than her perscribed diet - so protein must be the issue with her!


Maggie got really fat on her liver food from the vet. I had to change brands. She blew up like a baloon. She is on Hills Science diet for liver now and it seems to agree with her and she has lost a bit of that extra weight. Lola was skinny and I put her on innova and she is putting on weight and really likes that food.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Well I can say that although my guys are fine with the WD weight diet, they each poop between 3-6 times a day!! It is driving me little crazy!! So they said that if they lost weight at their next visits, I could do 1/2 CD and 1/2 Wd. So hopefully that will cut down on the poops - I actually ran out of poop bags this week!!!! But my Lexi is a whole new dog, and one I am loving!! She is so much happier, more playful, and funny!! So I will take it!!


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## Lola (Mar 22, 2007)

elregalohavanese said:


> I have to agree about the proteins. Those percentages seem rather high. We are new to toy breeds but used to have great danes and were always told to never feed them anything over 18% protein. We have always feed our dogs foods that fit in that category with good results. Does anyone know of a study with the protein amounts for toy dogs or any other health related problems. Susan


Yikes!!!There is 42% protein in Innova. I thought that was a good thing as long as their are no liver problems. When I checked the poll most people were feeding their Havs Innova. I give her the chicken in the green bag not the venison.


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## Lola (Mar 22, 2007)

Lola also seems happier on the Innova and she eats less and seems less hungry. On her other food she always would seem hungry. I would hate to have her start with kidney problems.


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

I just recently read a long article about protein in dog foods. I think someone posted it here on the forum somewhere? It covered some of the more recent information about feeding a higher protein diet. I believe the article was put out by one of the dog food manufacturers that produces that type of diet (not Innova) so maybe it's biased, but it explained the reasoning behind it, anyway. If I can find the link to the article, I'll post it here.


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/documents/ORIJEN_White_paper.pdf

There's the link.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Laurie, they look like such little angels. :biggrin1: I guess it's just like your kids when they scare you like that - first you want to hug them, and then you want to kill them. I'm glad they are OK. Hope you are, too. :hug:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Lola's mom, that is the innova EVO that has 42% protein. the good old fashioned Innova has 24%. 

I discovered that my Jasper does better, and has more energy on lower protein. Cash I believe eats less poo on higher protein.


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

hmm, I was un aware of that in toy breeds.......Most of the breeders around here feed Eukanuba(and a few raw/home cooked) so I had never heard anything about protien. I have always tried to stay towards foods with high protien/fat content(The fat for their coats, and the protien and fat both because they are very active. Not only are they "show dogs" but My Cavalier and Hailey both do agility, and Hailey is going to start herding lessions soon. Brandi, the CKCS, runs about a mileish with me everyday. So, I had always figured a high protien/fat content was good for them...........

Brandi is a good weight for Agility, same as Hailey(they need to be a little more trim for agility vs. the show ring, its funny, I always have agility ppl telling me that our "show dogs" are over weight, and "show" ppl telling me that our "Agilty Dogs" are under weight.......) Anyways, I have definatly looked at solid gold, sorry if I got the ingrediant #s wrong, there were a LOT of foods at our store 

If anyone does have links to any type of study about toy dogs/any dogs really, and protien, that would be great!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

You have touched upon a subject that has become a passion of mine--since Roxie's recent diagnosis of mild MVD (liver disease) and my background in health care. I will tell you that there is not much real evidence--or controlled studies out there on canine nutrition. There are a lot of opinons. I had a dog live relatively healthfully into his 16th year by eating what ever was on sale at the grocery store plus the snacks (pretzels, fruit bits, etc) my kids were offering. I guess I could make a claim that is the best diet for a dog, but I know that we really need a controlled study where one group eats that diet and another group eats something else. That is where the research is lacking.

I will say that the moderators on the liver shunt yahoo group recommend 2.5-3 gms of protein for each kg of body weight. That is hardly nothing. That is primarily a grain diet/vegetariun diet.

My vet told me that Brutus could eat the same diet as Roxie because we are not expecting him to grow anymore--and with Roxie we are using a low protein diet. My vet told me to give her a protein equivalent to most senior dog foods. That seems to be about 22%. 

High protein does lead to renal disease and urinary crystals. But what is high protein? I know that people have a tendency to believe that they need a lot more protein than they actually do need. So do we see the same needs for our pets?

Protein in our diets is for growth and the replacement of muscle breakdown in our bodies. Protein supplies 4 calories for each gram. That is the same for carbohydrates. Fat is actually 9 calories per gm. So if we are watching calories, protein and carbs do not make a difference. If we want an animal to gain weight we have to either supply more of what they are willing to eat or add more fat (and we have to believe that their are some consequences from adding too much fat.)

I believe that dogs who are overweight got that way by eating too much food that tasted way too good to them. 

So what is my point? I do not think (but this is an opinion and there is not evidence to back it) that our dogs needs 40%+ protein. I think the goal needs to be to meet the caloric needs of our dogs without doing harm.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

It's funny that you posted this now, Natasha, as I have been spending a lot of time reading dog food bags at my job too! lol I have been buying food from a health food for animals store for 1.5 years and just started working there a couple of weeks ago, part time. Many customers want my opinion and there are different situations for different dogs, so I try and give them educated advice. There's so much to learn about animal nutrition!

You have way more information than I can remember, so that's helpful. There is another food that sells well here in Canada, called Orijen. Made by champion foods, this is what they say:

_High-protein, low-carbohydrate and grain-free, ORIJEN features fresh regional ingredients in a Biologically Appropriate ratio of 70 percent meat, 30 percent fruit and vegetables and zero grain (70/30/0). _

I've been feeding Orijen to my dogs for months now and feel that I am giving them one of the best foods there is... of course, that's only my opinion. There are many great food choices for our dogs now. I do like to mix in some home-cooked, once in a while I add different toppers, and now am also giving them Solid Gold Holistique Blendz, a low-protein food so that the Orijen doesn't cause a problem for Ricky's liver issues at this point. (that's another story). 

Cheryl, I am not sure if a high protein diet is a factor in what Ricky had/has, but I doubt it since he had such a sudden 'attack', but hopefully we will get answers soon. I also have no evidence to back any of my beliefs, but we do what feels right to us until we learn otherwise, I suppose. I am not 100% sure just how bad or how good a high or a low protein diet is! I'm still learning. I am now reading a very interesting book, "Better Food for Dogs" by David Bastin, Jennifer Ashton and Dr. Grant Nixon, D.V.M.

I do think that giving a variety of foods that meets the dog's caloric requirement as well as supply the nutrients needed at different stages of his life is the ideal.


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Marj--I wonder if high protein made Ricky's blood tests elevated even though that may not have been the issue that caused his "attack." Once again, I have read articles and books that have no real controlled studies. We need vets who are interested in nutrition so that the studies are done.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Cheryl said:


> Marj--I wonder if high protein made Ricky's blood tests elevated even though that may not have been the issue that caused his "attack." Once again, I have read articles and books that have no real controlled studies. *We need vets who are interested in nutrition so that the studies are done.*


AMEN!!!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I agree! We need an indpendent source that will study what certain foods do to certain dogs and all that. Both Sammy and Ricky have been eating the same foods, so it would be interesting should the food be part of the reason for Ricky's elevated ALT. ARGGGH !!! I hate not knowing! :frusty:

And I LIKE Orijen. I like their philosphy and what their foods are made of. It's probably better than most foods I put in MY mouth! lol


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Sometimes, if you get the low fat food, it is a little lower in protein. Same good food, just less protein to reduce the fat content. If you feel your dog needs the extra fat, you can always add it in with some oils.


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