# Proper Groom Coat for Showing



## barkingbasement (Feb 18, 2011)

I have a 2yr old female that has a very thick, fluffy coat. All the other dogs have coats that look more ****zu in that they are very silky smooth & my girl is wavy & bushy. Do I try to control & flaten her volume or allow the natural beauty explode? I thought that Havanese were to be shown in "natural" coat & have not seen many that look very natural as of yet. I am very new to this & want to do well & more importantly have lots of fun. Any help is much appreciated


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Interesting... Would love to see the opinion of those who are experts. Can you share a picture of your girl? We love pictures !!! Welcome.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Do you blow her dry? She might have the cottony type coat which is much fuller looking. I use conditioner on Abby when I bathe her and also blow her dry or she will be wavy.


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## GrannyMouse (Sep 3, 2010)

We have a puppy and we are planning to show her soon. I too am confused about the show grooming. I keep reading "natural" but when I look at the video from Westminster I only see maybe two that look natural. They definitely stand out but not in a good way. It is obvious that the feet are trimmed and the rear end is trimmed. Is this allowed? I don't want to over trim but I don't want to under trim either. Are the judges more lenient with puppy trimming or lack of?


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

Exerpt from AKC: http://www.akc.org/breeds/havanese/

Minimal trimming around the anal and genital areas, for hygienic purposes only, is permissible but should not be noticeable on presentation. The hair on the feet and between the pads should be neatly trimmed for the express purpose of a tidy presentation. Any other trimming or sculpting of the coat is to be severely penalized as to preclude placement.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

BarkingBasement, I was not going to answer this thread because I thought that more of the people actively showing would speak up. I have not done a show grooming for the Havanese (I have the Shih Tzu) my husband mistook the Havanese for Lhasa's at a big show, when he got up close he admitted his error. That show look even with out using a lot of product is done with brushing and in many cases a high power blow dryer. The best way to find out what people are using and what is ok, is to go to a dog show and observe what they are using, some will even tell you if you ask. Also if you are taking a conformation class may of the people will know someone and tell you and sometimes there is a show groomer they will usually talk. If you know a good groomer you might talk to them and they may for a fee show you how to do the feet and the sanitaryfor your dog. Hope this helps some.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

http://www.havanesebreed.com/ This is a good magazine that talks about showing and grooming. Among other things.
I am learning my self I have spent about six days just hanging out at two different shows. Some coats are not desirable for showing. 
I am not sure about some because different country's have some variation of what you can do.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Kathie said:


> Do you blow her dry? She might have the cottony type coat which is much fuller looking. I use conditioner on Abby when I bathe her and also blow her dry or she will be wavy.


I know nothing about show coats. But just wanted to respond to your comment here, Kathie. I have to use conditioner on Augie too, as toward his back end, his hair is quite curly and it is turning gray, kind of like some older women's hair I have seen that is gray and curly and is pretty wild and just does its own thing.  I try to blow dry him carefully though, so as not to lose the waviness - I LIKE the waviness - probably because my own hair has always been so stick straight!


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

It is ok to use conditioners on Havs, you just don't want them weighed down, the judge should be able to put their fingers through the coat with out it feeling sickey, oiley, greasy, they should be able to run the fingers through and feel the true texture of the coat. There are lots out there now days. Dogs like Tsu's and Yorkie's you can use lots of product and chalks and you are allowed to cut the coat and Lhasa's do not have to be shown in full coat.

Linda, You made me laugh!!! Yogi is again changing color some of his white parts are becoming cream like the top of his ears, his dark hairs are through out the coat along with the silver and white.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> I know nothing about show coats. But just wanted to respond to your comment here, Kathie. <snip> I try to blow dry him carefully though, so as not to lose the waviness - I LIKE the waviness - probably because my own hair has always been so stick straight!


Me too! I LOVE Kodi's wavy hair. The parts closer to his body seem straighter, maybe from the weight of his hair, since it's quite long. But toward the end it has pretty waves that I just LOVE running my fingers through! That said, his coat is SIGNIFICANTLY different from what I saw in the ring at Westminster. How much of this is prep and how much is coat type, I really don't know. I do know that he's decidedly more "poofy" for the first 24 hours after a bath and blow dry.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Some of those dogs I have seen in the ring certainly don't look 'natural'. And, while watching their groomers or owners primping them and, in some cases, applying product after product before they enter the ring, I just find it hard to understand what is meant by 'natural'. Robbie, have you ever seen anyone disqualified for having too much product in their dog's hair? Oh, and those 'sanitary' cuts - holy cow. At the first dog show we attended, there was this very white havanese, very pretty, but when he/she was walking away from us in the ring, here was this bright pink/red 'bullseye' in his/her back end. NOT attractive! I felt so bad for that little dog. I promised Augie I would NEVER give him a 'bullseye'! ound: And I haven't seen the need for it...yet, anyway. If he ever gets a 'clinger', I just shake it loose.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Linda, I am again laughing. That is my point they do use product and a blow dryer. The new products are really great you can not feel them and they are light. I am not recomending any because it depends on the coat Havs have different coats. When someone gets disqualified it is subtle, you may just notice they are not showing and its depending what its for is not a big deal, it can teach you what not to do. A really good groomer can do a sanitary that you hardly notice. It is really a great thing if you have a nervous dog. I always do them on my dogs but, subtle!!!! My guys are trained to come in and push their butt in my face (almost) if there is something left behind. My Lhasa sometimes stays out and hides in the bushes, not because he is embarrassed, he just does not want a butt bath. Poor boy has so many things IBS, hemoroids, so sometimes he has one may times a day and he is 14 now. Yogi goes nuts as when he was younger I would say "dirty,dirty" in a high pitched voice. DH dreads this when he is alone with Yogi. LOL.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> Some of those dogs I have seen in the ring certainly don't look 'natural'. And, while watching their groomers or owners primping them and, in some cases, applying product after product before they enter the ring, I just find it hard to understand what is meant by 'natural'. Robbie, have you ever seen anyone disqualified for having too much product in their dog's hair? Oh, and those 'sanitary' cuts - holy cow. At the first dog show we attended, there was this very white havanese, very pretty, but when he/she was walking away from us in the ring, here was this bright pink/red 'bullseye' in his/her back end. NOT attractive! I felt so bad for that little dog. I promised Augie I would NEVER give him a 'bullseye'! ound: And I haven't seen the need for it...yet, anyway. If he ever gets a 'clinger', I just shake it loose.


ound: I noticed the same thing with some of the Westminster dogs. Between really tightly curled tails (a couple almost like a pug's tail!) and too much (IMO) hair removed, they had absolutely naked butts sticking up there for all the world to see! I like Kodi's "privacy curtain" as we call it.:biggrin1: He almost never gets cling-ons, even though you can't even tell he's pooping except by the position of his body. He gets up, and there it is, on the ground behind him.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Linda, I am again laughing. That is my point they do use product and a blow dryer. The new products are really great you can not feel them and they are light. I am not recomending any because it depends on the coat Havs have different coats. When someone gets disqualified it is subtle, you may just notice they are not showing and its depending what its for is not a big deal, it can teach you what not to do. A really good groomer can do a sanitary that you hardly notice. It is really a great thing if you have a nervous dog. I always do them on my dogs but, subtle!!!! My guys are trained to come in and push their butt in my face (almost) if there is something left behind. My Lhasa sometimes stays out and hides in the bushes, not because he is embarrassed, he just does not want a butt bath. Poor boy has so many things IBS, hemoroids, so sometimes he has one may times a day and he is 14 now. Yogi goes nuts as when he was younger I would say "dirty,dirty" in a high pitched voice. DH dreads this when he is alone with Yogi. LOL.


Kodi has a sanitary cut too, but you STILL can't see his butt. And the few times he HAS had a cling-on, it is immediately apparent. He doesn't even like a leaf stuck to his but, and will immediately start spinning, trying to get it off. Since his poops are usually well-formed and dry, a flick from a little twig is all that is usually required to knock one free. I can only EVER remember giving him a couple of butt baths, and that was before we figured out his intolerance to beef.

In regards to how Havs are shown, I much prefer the European look. I'm sure they do their share of "primping" too, but in the end the dogs DO look much more natural. That said, I also do like the braids at the corner of the eyes look that one of the Westminster dogs had. (I know that's legal) and I CAN'T get used to corded Havs... they do nothing for me at all.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Karen, I like that - 'privacy curtain'.  When Augie has required a butt bath, not often, it usually has been after DH has taken him out to potty. Like Kodi, he will start spinning if there is a clinger, and DH does not know how to either flick it off or shake it off without getting it entwined in the hair. Though I haven't had to do it for quite a long time, so he must be getting better at it!  

I am not a fan of the corded look either - don't find it at all attractive. Mostly, it just does not look 'clean' to me. And I am wondering how one would even tell if there was a tick or ? in there?? That is the feeling I get when I look at humans with 'dreads' - I envision all sorts of little critters 'playing' amongst the dreads!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

You guys should look at the link I posted their is a long video on how to groom a Havanese. Does your dogs stay that still?


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Karen, You can not see Yogi's you know either. He does the turning thing too. He does get very upset after a class with lots of big dogs and when we come home he when he goes its runny we are now down to 1 time a week not two.

It was suggested to me I get a Puli, there is a woman in Sanford that shows and breeds, they are cute and smart. Petting them is not the same and the care and up keep of the corded coat OMG, they can have a musty smell and take hours to blow dry and on the Puli's there not fully corded until about 3. Too much work. I will admire them from afar.


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## Cailleach (Jan 30, 2010)

It's funny you folks mentioned the visible butt buttons blinking at everyone, I don't think I have ever viewed that in the ring so obvious before.ound: My favorite dog exhibited was the one with the braids although I didn't see the braids until they did the close ups. I saw it in the background behind the featured dogs and told myself I had to look for that white dog with the man in the black suit when it was their turn.

We don't use any products other than shampoos and conditioners and a "lot" of grooming for the show ring. We do trim sanitary areas minimally and feet. The European style of showing to me looks unfinished, more like my dogs at home as opposed to what I am used to as ring ready with the head hair all brushed back and the coats very tidy, like everything else, every person has their own tastes.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> You guys should look at the link I posted their is a long video on how to groom a Havanese. Does your dogs stay that still?


Kodi doesn't stay COMPLETELY still, but he stays still enough. I need him to turn around as I work on him, so some movement is good. The only thing we ALWAYS argue over is drying (or trimming, or doing nails on) his left front leg. For some reason he has ALWAYS objected to having that foot and leg handled. It DOESN'T hurt, I have never done anything to him that hurt that foot or leg... I haven't ever done anything that I don't do to the other three legs, but h's still squirrely about that one. But it's still not bad about that one either, I just need to be more patient, and realize he is going to take it way from me a few times as I work. He has gotten MUCH better about thatleg over time, but it's still a work in progress.

Remember that in your case, you are still working on YOUNG puppies. It takes LOTS of time on the grooming table, being gentle but persistent, with lots of positive reinforcement (AKA cookies) for a puppy to get to the point that they stay relatively still for grooming.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Karen, You can not see Yogi's you know either. He does the turning thing too. He does get very upset after a class with lots of big dogs and when we come home he when he goes its runny we are now down to 1 time a week not two.
> 
> It was suggested to me I get a Puli, there is a woman in Sanford that shows and breeds, they are cute and smart. Petting them is not the same and the care and up keep of the corded coat OMG, they can have a musty smell and take hours to blow dry and on the Puli's there not fully corded until about 3. Too much work. I will admire them from afar.


One of the trainers at our center was talking with us recently about "smelly dogs' (one of the other people has Newfies, and said that no one would want to ride in her car!) The trainer said, Newfies are nothing... She said she'd never compalin about "regular" dog smells again, after riding home from an outside obedience trial with a friend who had a Puli. I guess it rained during the trial and the Puli (along with everyone else) got wet. The trainer said that the smell was SO bad that they had to drive 2 hours home with the windows wide open to be able to breathe.ound:

No thanks! One of the things I love about Kodi is being able to bury my face in his sweet smelling coat!:biggrin1:


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

I like my dogs to be more natural when they enter the ring. Once in awhile I may use some thinning shears to just thin the butt hair a little, (like you guys I do not like the bulls eye either.) otherwise not one hair is ever trimmed on my guys


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Shaggy pup Nellie
Smooth pup Dizzie.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Oh I meant to say, both of them natural no fancy products, obviously Dizzie has been trimmed.They are bathed once every couple of months approx, and it has been 3 weeks since last bath.Dizzie is brushed every 4 or 5 days,and Nellie has just started to blow her coat so now I try to do it every day,and luckily she dosen't seem to mind.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

I like the shaggy look.  

Today I was very brave. I used my clippers for the first time. It was only to clean up Jack's pads but I did it! Then I took tiny scissors and trimmed just a little of his bangs. The hubby held his head and stuffed Jack's face with treats while I carefully snipped millimeters of hair. We can see his eyes a little better now.


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## GrannyMouse (Sep 3, 2010)

CacheHavs said:


> I like my dogs to be more natural when they enter the ring. Once in awhile I may use some thinning shears to just thin the butt hair a little, (like you guys I do not like the bulls eye either.) otherwise not one hair is ever trimmed on my guys


You don't trim around the feet?


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

nope, I will once in awhile just trim right on the pads so they dont go skiing across my floor, but I never trim the feet up other wise.


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## GrannyMouse (Sep 3, 2010)

Your dogs are beautiful!! I love the color of the second one in your pictures. What do you call the color? I'm new to Havanese and am still learning colors.



CacheHavs said:


> nope, I will once in awhile just trim right on the pads so they dont go skiing across my floor, but I never trim the feet up other wise.


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## marlowe'sgirl (Jun 17, 2010)

My dog (not a show dog) has many different 'natural' looks. From the groomer, his hair looks straight, but is SOO poofy it sticks almost straight our from his body. After I wash and condition his hair well, then blow dry, he looks much more like the 'silky' havs with flatter hair and a slight wave. The rained-on-our-walk, haven't been brushed out yet look is often described as bob marley/rastafarian or like he got a recent 'perm' with very wavy hair. I'd argue the last is the 'most' natural, but you wouldn't see the look at a dog show. But most who know him, prefer the latter look on him. The rastafarian look totally complements his personality.


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

marlowe'sgirl said:


> My dog (not a show dog) has many different 'natural' looks. From the groomer, his hair looks straight, but is SOO poofy it sticks almost straight our from his body. After I wash and condition his hair well, then blow dry, he looks much more like the 'silky' havs with flatter hair and a slight wave. The rained-on-our-walk, haven't been brushed out yet look is often described as bob marley/rastafarian or like he got a recent 'perm' with very wavy hair. I'd argue the last is the 'most' natural, but you wouldn't see the look at a dog show. But most who know him, prefer the latter look on him. The rastafarian look totally complements his personality.


Would love to see pictures. This can be a great thread: the "different looks of your Hav" - pictures.


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

GrannyMouse said:


> Your dogs are beautiful!! I love the color of the second one in your pictures. What do you call the color? I'm new to Havanese and am still learning colors.


Thank you!  Is this the dog you are asking about? She is of many different colors. She is registered as a Red brindle tri color, but she does continue to change. You can still see the red in her, but she has now gained a lot of silver in her too. Her are a couple of different pictures of her and she is also the one in my avatar picture too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

CacheHavs said:


> Thank you!  Is this the dog you are asking about? She is of many different colors. She is registered as a Red brindle tri color, but she does continue to change. You can still see the red in her, but she has now gained a lot of silver in her too. Her are a couple of different pictures of her and she is also the one in my avatar picture too.


Heather, did you have an idea what her adult color would be like or was she a total surprise? She's gorgeous!


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

I read this the other night & learned something new. To fluff use a pin brush while drying. To flatten use a bristle brush while drying..
http://plushpuppyusa.com/document.php?id=156

If the link above doesn't work scroll to the Havanese:
http://plushpuppyusa.com/page.php?tpg=QU_ARTICLES


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## GrannyMouse (Sep 3, 2010)

Heather, that's the one!! She is beautiful. The others are too but I just love her color.


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