# Riki's skin problems...little red bumps



## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

Riki is six. His parents weren't health tested as that wasn't such a big thing back then. Daisy has actually been my problem child with skin stuff. Each year vet visits for itching to the point of matting and losing coat. She has been on temaril p for seasonal itching and steroid shots, all of which worked a week or so and then back to itching.

My dogs have no fleas and eat a raw diet with all the best of everything. I have tried so many supplements and special things over the years. 

Riki started itching around his eyes. Then itching his paws...not all over his body like Daisy does. Then I noticed little bumps all over his groin area that went away after a bit. I thought he had a food allergy reaction as I gave him some tuna so I didn't think too much of it. Then he started getting these little red bumps that turned into round dry skin patches. Then he started getting pink skin. I took him to the vets and they treated him like Daisy with the temaril p, steroid shot, and antibiotics. No improvement. Blood work done, and it appears that he might have a thyroid problem...which I understand is a big cause of itching, hair loss, and other problems in havanese. 

He doesn't have the smell and itchy ears like those in the SA study. It is more a crusty dry patching small areas of the skin on the back of the legs, tail and losing coat around the last 1/4 of his back.

I have a call into the vet right now for a follow-up visit and more blood work. I understand it can be controlled with medication for life...good grief.

I guess this is another reason for health testing. I don't know how they would screen for thyroid issues. 

Anyone else experience something like this?


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Linda, I am so sorry to hear this about Riki. We had a false alarm with Cash and Thyroid test back when he was having so much problem with his weight, and he also had these raised red bumps. In his Initial thyroid test one of the markers came up elevated. So my vet (as well as Kimberly on here) recommended that we send his blood to Hemopet which is Jean Dodds foundation and that they really have the best knowledge of Thyroid Issues with dogs. We were lucky that on further testing he was fine. But I am glad he got a thorough work up. it cost $25 for my vet to draw the blood and ship it. and $85 for the complete thyroid workup. And it was all arranged through my vets office 

Hemopet/Hemolife- W. Jean Dodds, DVM
11330 Markon Drive, Garden Grove, CA 92841 

What helped his skin at the time was a shampoo called ChlorhexiDerm 2% by DVM (8 oz) we washed him 3 times a week with it and dried him completely each time. His turned out to be bacterial and likely caused from being damp a lot of the time from going out in wet snow, wet grass, etc. We also treated each spot with Tresaderm which is an anti-bacterial/steroid liquid. 

If you decide to try this to make him more comfortable while you wait for the thyroid tests use a heavy conditioner as the shampoo is drying. 

I will keep my fingers crossed for you and Riki that it turns out to be something less permanent as well.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Linda, so sorry to read of Riki's skin problems! It is so hard when they have health issues. I hope it is nothing serious and that you can figure out something to help him quickly. Missy has a good suggestion with Cash's experience, maybe that will give you something to try, especially the lab she suggested.

Good luck.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Darn! I was hoping he was doing better. Since Dr. Dodds is practically in our backyard, maybe you could make an appt. for Riki to see her in person? I'd be more than happy to go w/you, if you'd like


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*our vet...*

Well, our vet hasn't called me back yet and it is time to go to work...so I'll have to wait to hear from him.

Thanks for your support...


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

Poor Ricki! Itching can be soo mysterious. My mom's poor tzu has had terrible issues like this for as long a I can remember. They have done EVERYTHING imaginable-every test, every drug, restricted diets, and it's still not known what causes it. She's such a beautiful dog and I hate to see her uncomfortable. I hope Ricki can get some relief very soon.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Rikidaisy said:


> I guess this is another reason for health testing. I don't know how they would screen for thyroid issues.


Hi Linda,
I am sorry to hear that Ricki is having problems with itchy skin. That is so hard to diagnose since many things can cause itchy skin. To name a few,
fleas, other insect bites, dry skin, allergies, diet, shampoo, etc.

Breeders can screen for hypothyroidism by running a complete blood panel or just doing a blood test for thyroid only. It is thought to be genetic however, not for sure known as a fact. Most dogs can be treated effectively by taking medication daily and living a normal life otherwise. There is a lot of great information on the internet about it and Dr. Dobbs is a leader in this disorder.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Linda- If I were you I would take some of the advice here and do a complete blood panel. I have done one on each of my dogs at about 2 years old. They take the blood and send it out and you get all kinds of numbers that they go over with you (I recently did Dashers and have 3 pages!) I would also think about what Leslie said and go to the best... she is right there! (Make sure if you have your vet do it, they know ahead of time because it has to be shipped specially)

But if they are still doing the testing for SA- why not try it? Didn't you say before Daisy has allergy and skin issues too? (Are they from the same breeder/line?)


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I was checking to see if you had gotten any news. I have no experience with these matters, but the above advice is very good.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*It isn't thyroid...*

It is some weird skin thing. No fleas, not since last summer...but he could be having reaction from that last season. He is taking a new medication called Clemastine Fumerate which is an antihistamine for dogs. I'm going to switch his shampoo from the neem and try oatmeal again or sulfoxydex or the other one suggested.

I also switched his raw to lamb, has been on venison and see how that goes. By the way, they love the lamb.

We live in Southern California where we have desert winds blowing and ocean breezes. We have eucalyptus all over the place and rag weed...so there are many allergens around here in addition to the "smog" and chemicals from cars and buses.

I'll keep you posted.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Thanks for the update, Linda. So glad thyroid has been ruled out. Sure hope you're able to figure out what it is that's causing the problem. It's great they are liking the lamb. Tori _used_ to love it, not so much lately.


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## TheVintageVamp (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm sure all of you already know this and it's already been eliminated, but with so many threads on itchy dogs I'll bring it up anyway.

Febreze sprayed directly on carpets or any of the powdered odor killing products can be a huge allergen source for humans and canines. Febreze sprayed on furniture can be a problem for dogs that get on furniture. Even the so-called 'unscented' versions can be problematic. Scotchguard treatments to new carpeting and furniture can also be a culprit in skin allergy problems.

If you have hardwood floors and use any of the Orange Oil based floor care products, this can also cause allergy problems for some dogs.

Some years ago I had cocker spaniel with severe skin problems and we found out that he was allergic to the Program flea control pills. The same drug (Lufenuron) is also found in Sentinel. You might want to talk with your vet about that possibility as well.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

What about trying chris' peace n kindness spray, may help!


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Riki's problem is bacterial*

Here is an email from his vet:

First, Riki's thyroid function is normal (T4 = 0.8, range 1.0 - 4.0 and Free T4 by equilibrium dialysis = 19.3, range 8-40). I was initially concerned due to the 0.8 reading and did not have the second test results yet. As it turned out, Riki's thyroid is in the normal range (Free T4 by E.D.) and is functioning normally.

Second, Riki's skin cytology showed cocci (grape-like bacteria), too numerous too count on our microscope's high-power field. This should respond to the Cephalexin (antibiotics). In the case there is no response, I may recommend a culture of his skin to check if this antibiotic choice is appropriate.
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Bacteria can be caused by one flea many months ago, and the dog biting at that bite or just bacteria caused by the flea. Fleas are horrible!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Linda, I would definitely try that Dvm shampoo I mentioned as well, it really sped up cash's relief. I also really liked the tresaderm for each spot. It is a liquid usually used for ears but my vet had me use it topically. I also keep it around and use it for bug bites.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*need to go back to the vet...*

Riki's skin is a very bright pink and his eyes are really red all around. I just bathed him and realized he has lost a lot of coat on his side and hind quarters. He still is getting these little bumps that open up to dry skin patches despite being on antibiotics for over two weeks.

I wonder if it is a staff infection or something...why would he have so much bacteria? I take such good care of him...could we have caught something at Eukanuba or the Pet expo being exposed to so many dogs? Or could one flea bite last year have caused this kind of reaction?

His skin is very dry in patches and if you scratch it, it can become very red...so something is quite wrong...


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Sorry you are going through this with Riki. I have no suggestions, just sending good thoughts and wishes for a solution.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Linda, I am so sorry to hear Ricki has not improved. I hope the vet has some answers for you. Is he itchy as well or does it not seem to bother him? wondering if you have tried good ole benedryl just to make him more confortable. I will be thinking of you both.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Poor Ricky. I wish they could talk. Does he seem to be in discomfort?


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*No itching...*

Sometimes his paws and around his eyes. He is taking clemastine fumerate which is better than benedryl for dogs.

It is some bacterial infection most probably. Dogs can get staff infections...and even from one flea bite...

The dogs had fleas last summer and the frontline wasn't working...although I bathed them often. So it would have been possible to have been bitten for the first time in his life. My cat actually had some, which breaks my heart as he was dying and never had any in his life...he passed away at 19 in August.

At least Tiger Lily is doing well...she also has an itching thing going on...I wonder if there is something in our house? Although vets said it was a bad year for seasonal allergies this year...we have Santa Ana desert winds, smog, and ocean dampness...but the weather is pretty great.

Here is a photo of Lily today...anyone in Southern California know someone who wants a really sweet rescue dog, non-shedding, house-trained, and a bit taller than havanese. Two years old, fifteen pounds. I would love it if I knew who it was adopting her...


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## kao9016 (Feb 5, 2008)

I was just reading this thread and my dog Riley is having similar problems. She was recently placed on the Venison and Sweet potato LID diet due to vomiting and dark stool which my vet presumed was an allergy to an ingredient in her diet (she has x-rays and blood work which were essentially normal). She has ONLY been eating this food for the past month. About 2 weeks ago, I noticed a red bump on her chest that she was licking. Now she has about 5 red bumps but they are all scabbing up. I've been putting cortizone on them, and the vet prescribed a pill, hydroxide (i think that's the name). He said it's not fleas or bites. Although the bumps seem to be getting better, she's still really itchy, esp on her belly and hear her crotch area. I feel terrible for her, and I don't know what to do. Allergies seem really hard to treat. I'm not sure if it's an allergy to the food, or some indoor allergy??? It just seems impossible to figure it out. I feel like I'm at a dead end right now. Does anyone have suggestions?


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Riki Update.*

I took Riki back to the vets after three weeks of antibiotics. He has lost a considerable amount of coat on his sides. The vet did some more tests, no more cocci or bacteria...so that is cleared up.

He doesn't have mites or mange from new skin cultures. It could be that his coat will grow back now that the infection is better....

Or if it doesn't, we need to looking at Cushings or possible SA...

I'm praying it was an awful skin infection. It could have been caused by some allergen, and then it got infected...

Oy!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

awww poor Riki!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Checking back in, I'm sorry Ricky is still having problems. that's a really cute picture of him.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

*Ricki*

Hope Ricki feels better soon!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Linda, I hope that Riki recovers back to normal! What a worry.


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## judith (Dec 15, 2006)

linda, i hope riki is diagnosed soon and back to normal, judy


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Riki*

I'm hoping he is back to normal again soon too. I'm praying it was just a bacterial infection left too long...and that the coat will be back soon and the skin less pink!

Thanks for all your support everyone!


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Continuing challenges*

Well. Riki has been tested for everything under the sun, and it is all negative. Except that he has still cocci back, which is a form of bacteria. He is taking a heavy dose of antibiotics again, and I need to get him some probiotics. He has lost about 25% of his coat...on his side and inside legs and belly, as well as part of tail.

This can be a reactive dermatitis from one flea bite or two last summer...or it is Sebascious Adentinitis.

It is not thyroid, cushings, any kind of mite or worm (been tested for all of that and then some).

The wonderful shampoo that has been recommended is not on the market right now. All DVS products are off the shelf. Sulphhexiderm

Any other ideas. Poor little guy is cold without his coat! I had to cut it all the way down to the skin for the topical medication and constant bathing...


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Linda- I thought they had a test for SA now? Was he tested negative for it? Have you contacted his breeder?

Ugh, I feel so bad for you and Riki.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*SA Test*

They do and it is quite expensive. Even if he does have it, there is no cure. I am in contact with the study and he will have the test in August when they get more funding. Mary Ellen has given me the things she does with the SA dogs she fosters, so I am doing the procedure to see if it works.

I will contact his breeder if he does have it...and I am praying that he doesn't. For dogs who have flea reactive dermatitis, it is just a big mess. Sue Nelson always thought a lot of these things have to do with the rabies vaccine that our dogs get in the same amount as a Rottweiler. Sigh.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Oh Linda- those pictures are just so sad. I hope you find some answers but I think it is great you are trying what others have had success with. I hope you find something sooner than later. 

I completely agree about the vaccinations and what trouble they can cause, I am friends with a breeder who doesn't vaccinate her dogs at all (she is in the fifth generation of her breeding program now) and it all started because of her dog's skin issues. It is a fine line to walk to protect our pups- both from what is out there and what is in those vaccinations.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*I know!*

And the Pet Expo is this weekend. Riki has been every year since he went his first time at six months. What will the booth do without this great ambassador to the breed! Unless I put an outfit on him and disguise his awful coat. And Amanda, you remember what a thick coat he had!

Ah well, perhaps we need a rest this year...so there are no accidents. Don't need to spend all that money I do on all the wonderful things they have there.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Linda- when I cut Belle down I just threw on a dress I was just embarrassed of the job I did (it happened so fast and is still growing out). Riki may very well enjoy the time being out and about so maybe if the weather is not too warm, he can wear a tshirt and still have some fun showing people Havs are lovers!


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*thank you Amanda*

And those little agility champions of yours!


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Bald or not, he's still cute!

Hopefully he isn't suffering too much, I don't know if you looked into the peace spray, lots of good feedback for those who have used it on here.

I would just put a tshirt on him if you feel like you have to go to the show.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Linda, Your poor baby and poor you! My Tzu had a bacterial skin infection this year it is common here in North Carolina seems the reason things grow so big in my garden is partly the bacteria in the soil. He was on Keflex 250mg for two months ( he has a bad heart so it also caused damage there) the shampoo I was given is called "Chlorehixidine Shampoo 4%" It is a broad spectram antimicrobial by Animal Pharimaceuticals. It worked on the coat and skin right away and I was warned not to stop the med's because the shampoo has a good effect but can not cure it alone. It might help. I have a Lhasa that has flea reactive dermatitis his gets bad with cat fleas it starts as a huge swelling bite that spreads so I have tons of shampoos and topicals (messy). So this was a whole different shampoo (leaves the coat dry and does not clean so shampoo use it leave it on for 15mins rinse, rinse and condiction). Just a thought.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Poor, sweet Riki! 

Linda, Tori and I will be at the Expo on Friday (I think we're working the MTB booth but, haven't heard from Linda S. yet) I'd love to give that boy some ear-scratchies and smooches. Those pictures break my heart


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Leslie said:


> Poor, sweet Riki!
> 
> I'd love to give that boy some ear-scratchies and smooches. Those pictures break my heart


*(((((((HUGS)))))))))))*


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Poor Riki, and dpoor Linda, having to see and worry about your sweet boy. What a nightmare. Give him a tummy rub from me and his look-alike, Tucker. 

How sad he looks!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Poor Riki and you. Absolutely no advice just wanted to let you know we all wish you a quick find of the source and a cure. I actually talked to my vet last week about the vaccines. He said there are a very few reaction cases compared to the number of shots given. One case is to many if it is your dog, but he sees 100 times more dogs with the sicknesses that could have been prevented than the reactions to the shots. Galen got her shots all of them.


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## judith (Dec 15, 2006)

linda, good luck in your quest for a solution to riki's problem. i am unable to attend the expo also, will sure miss going. judy


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Has your vet ruled out pemphigus foliaceus? It's also known as immune mediated disease. When Bogart was scratching last summer, the vet took a skin sample and found some acantholytic keratinocytes. Turns out it was nothing though. Thank God!

The problem is you could have a mix of a food allergy and an environmental. If Riki is licking his paws (the pads and not the top) and rubbing his eyes/muzzle I would be suspect for a food allergy. It's also quite feasible that all the itching has caused the infection. My vet recommended that I put a tshirt on Bogart when he was itching so he wouldn't cause an infection. It definitely helped.

Any type of red meat such as venison, bison, beef etc are not going to give you a good result for the food allergen. The only way would be to get either Kangaroo or Ostrich. Although it may be a pain, if you did that, within a few months you would be able to 100% rule food if the scratching doesn't stop or lessen to a large degree. You could go on with all sorts of testing and medication but in the end you will be paying lots of money and probably be in the same boat a few months from now. Might as well try to at least rule out one item by using the Kangaroo or Ostrich meat.

I highly doubt a flea bite from last year is causing the problem. When Bogart was tested for allergies, he came back with a high sensitivity to flea and mosquito bites. One bite will make him itch like crazy for a week or so. 

If it's an airborne allergen, being in California is going to be a problem. The warm weather is just a field day for airborne allergens. Right now in Toronto, Birch is in the air in a large amount (due to the warm winter and really warm spring weather) causing allergy sufferers, both human and dog, a lot of grief.

Like my vet said, you need to start with one item and work in steps. Trying a whole bunch of things will much more likely result in a miss rather than a hit.


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