# Be Wary of buying long distance.



## MZMom

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the forum but joined to share my story and warn others in the US considering buying from Canada. I live in California and have a 10 year old Hav. We love him and think the breed is awesome. We wanted to get a second one and wanted it to be small, red and male. I started looking in California but no one had any available meeting my criteria. So I found a breeder who claimed she had the red sable color I was looking for. She was all over the web and had won shows with her dogs so I thought she must be good. She mentioned a price, but changed it later when I picked a pup, stating that it wasn't a price she could offer for _that_ dog. (Strike 1).

When I picked up my pup at the airport, he was much much lighter than in the pictures. (bummer). She said I could return him. Yeah, right. Let me put this puppy through more trauma...

I noticed in one of the puppy pics that his eye looked a little teary. Bev from Misty Trails in Vancouver B.C. said that it was just happening because he was teething. When I went to the vet, he said that's ridiculous. (Strike 2). To make things worse, I brought my puppy for his first haircut at 7 1/2 months. He got an adorable cut but the groomer said his eyes are terrible... I tried NaturVet powder, I tried a probiotic prescription from my vet. I also tried NaturVet wipes. Nothing seems to help.

As part of the contract, I needed to neuter my dog and upon doing so I would receive $190 back. First off, this amount was based on the original price, not the higher price I was charged. (Strike 3). Secondly, when I did get the dog neutered, I had to get a certificate from the vet. I tore ligaments in my foot and was unable to drive for a month; the month in which was the due date for neutering. When I contacted the breeder to explain why I would be a week late (based on the date on the contract), she claimed she had to check with her accountant ....that the money had already been donated. WHAT? (Strike 4). So you're saying you can't find the money from all the dogs you sell?

Havanese lovers, take heed. Although I saw pictures, this was not enough. You have to get a sense of trust from the person you're working with. Please Please Please, go see the dog in person that you want to adopt. And meet the breeder and look them in the eyes. Breeders will tell you what you want to hear. If you don't get a good feeling, move on. If you can't go see the dog, move on. It's not worth it. A dog is out there for you.

Buying from British Columbia was not worth the hassle. I thought I was getting a really exclusive line, with top notch characteristics. Now I know I overpaid, and if I knew this transaction would be so difficult, I never would have looked out side of California.

I wish I knew how to get back my money for the neutering. But it seems I am SOL. Signed a wary MZMom.


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## andra

I am sorry that you had such a bad experience. I just wanted to welcome you to the forum and hopefully you will post pictures of your little furbaby


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## sandypaws

Welcome MZMom. Sorry to hear of your woes. Hope,you are enjoying your new puppy even though you had such a bad experience.


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## misstray

There is a havanese group on yahoo that has lots of Canadian breeder participation. You could possibly get some help through there.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/havaneseincanada/

I don't know anything about that breeder, but there are several very reputable BC breeders. Most don't ship puppies. I find it really odd about being charged a "refundable" fee until you get your pet neutered. I wonder if this is her standard practice or if it had to do with it being an out of country sale. Either way, it seems odd.

The way it worked for me, was I got Brody's CKC papers after I proved neuter. I had Brody neutered at 7 months rather than by 6 months and my breeder was more than happy with this.

When I was researching breeders I did run across that breeder, but there was just something I didn't like about their website (if I remember correctly they were a group of different breeders sharing one website at that time, though it seems to have changed now) and so I never contacted them.

As far as I can see, I don't see them listed as registered members of Havanese Fanciers of Canada. They very well may do all the right things regarding health testing, showing, etc., I don't know.

I do want to point out that Havanese are known for their colour changes. It's one of the many interesting things about them. Colour doesn't tend to reproduce well on pictures over the internet either. Many Havanese end up as practically "little white dogs" even though they started out life with colour.

As for the vet saying it was ridiculous to say that teething can contribute to runny eyes or tear staining, I'm not sure why he'd say that. My breeder said the same thing. My parents have had both a Bichon and a Maltese and this was an issue with both of their dogs. Brody had tear staining when he was teething and his face is mostly black. If you do a search on the forum and you'll find lots of threads about tear staining and eye watering. It's an issue with many havs (well-bred or not). Brody's went away after he finished teething, but some Havs continue to have problems with it.

Anyhow, I do want to say welcome to the forum. I'm sorry you've had a bad experience, but I'm sure your new baby is lovely!! We'd love to see pictures!


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## miller123

We got miller from that breeding group, and they where fabulous, though it may have been the dog you got? They do all the health testing and one of bevs dogs http://elitehavanese.com/reo.html was best havanese at Westminster 2012. Most if not all of the dogs show, are health tested and have all the proper testing done before they even think about breeding. Very reputable in my opinion, dont be turned off this breeder (for anybody looking for a hav right now in BC )


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## MZMom

*reply to miller123*



miller123 said:


> We got miller from that breeding group, and they where fabulous, though it may have been the dog you got? They do all the health testing and one of bevs dogs http://elitehavanese.com/reo.html was best havanese at Westminster 2012. Most if not all of the dogs show, are health tested and have all the proper testing done before they even think about breeding. Very reputable in my opinion, dont be turned off this breeder (for anybody looking for a hav right now in BC )


Hi miller 123,
I am not questioning the health of the dog as much as I am questioning the tactics used to sell their puppies. I do think my neuter refund should have been sent to me and I do not believe Bev's pricing should have gone up so much after she saw I was willing to pay a higher price for a partner's dog with whom I did not have a contract. It went up $500.00!


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## Laurief

I agree that it is SO important for you to visit the breeder, not just to "look them in the eye" but to see the facility/home. To see that the pups are being raised in good conditions! I strongly believe that if a breeder does not allow you to visit, that it is a big red flag!!


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## Suzi

I'm sorry you are unhappy. Did she not know you were just looking for a pet Havanese when you first talked? Its not uncommon for a breeder to charge more for their pet quality puppy's. The Show potential are usually co owned and have much more detail to the contract. The Spay refund I suppose she just has to draw a cut of date at some point.But I'm sorry she didn't work with you on that.
The color you were trying to get is my favorite too. Look up Pillowtalk Havanese they have beautiful reds.
* Where is our picture?*


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## atsilvers27

MZMom said:


> Hi miller 123,
> I am not questioning the health of the dog as much as I am questioning the tactics used to sell their puppies. I do think my neuter refund should ha been sent to me and I do not believe Bev's pricing should have gone up so much after she saw I was willing to pay a higher price for a partner's dog with whom I did not have a contract. It went up $500.00!


I am with you on this one. Though she does extensive health testings and has some high ranking show dogs, I chose not to get a dog from her, though it would have been for show/breeding, her contract is very unfair to the buyer. She wanted a puppy back (not uncommon)AND she also wanted half of all profits made from the dog. That was just a bait I refused to swallow. I guess if someone wanted into her bloodlines that badly AND had "sucker" written on their forehead, they could do it. The little revenue that might be made from breeding a show dog might not return the money put into the dog to the owner, but thento half it would be a money pit in comparison to normal show contracts.

She recently partnered with Jeff's Havanese, who looks like he changed his website name to New York Havanese and realized he needed to get into showing and actually use SOME titled dogs in his breeding stock. I hope he has changed his ways but his name has really been mangled on here, what with charging high dollar for unproven parents and breeding females very young.


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## Island Lillies

Hi MZ Mom:
I read your statement regarding issues related to the purchase of your puppy from Misty Trails and wished to address some of your issues. 
Firstly, to address the eye tearing and staining. Many puppies teething do tear or even salivate just as a human babies do, this is very common and often disappears as they grow. It’s most unfortunate that you were not aware but more concerning is the comment by your veterinarian. A good veterinarian knows all to well the many symptoms associated with teething and teary eyes is at the top. 
Secondly, change of colour within the havanese breed is most likely, some lighten and some get darker as they mature. This is not just associated with havanese but also in many other breeds like the Shih Tzu. Shih Tzu can change colour more than once during their life time.
Thirdly, I’m not sure what your groomer was referring to with the statement ”the eyes are terrible” but if you are referencing staining around the eyes there can be many contributing factors from your tap water, foods you feed, or genetics. I suggest you take the time to research this topic as it may help you to understand and also to find solutions.
Also, just because a breeder in not a member of a parent club does not mean they are not a good, dedicated breeder that breeds for health and structure. Many choose not to become a member as in many cases being a member takes time, work and its just easier not to be involved in another club. Breeding and showing dogs is a very expensive sport and, as we all know, the price of veterinarian visits has increased exponentially. It seems all costs associated with owning a pet have risen. 
Many breeders propose contracts to aid them in continuing with their breeding programs, they are terms set forth prior to an agreement being made so each potential puppy purchaser can either agree or disagree to the terms before signing in.
I hope this helps give some clarification to your concerns and that you love and care for your puppy. I do agree that all parties should meet, its alway a good idea to visit, meet the puppies, see how they are being raised and meet the breeder prior to purchasing. 

In closing I am not affiliated with Mistry Trails and do not even own a Havanese but I do show and breed Shih Tzu. Each breeder sets their own parameters and I for one do not ship and would never sell unless the purchaser has visited my home and my puppies.

Good Luck and enjoy!


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## krandall

Island Lillies said:


> Hi MZ Mom:
> I read your statement regarding issues related to the purchase of your puppy from Misty Trails and wished to address some of your issues.
> Firstly, to address the eye tearing and staining. Many puppies teething do tear or even salivate just as a human babies do, this is very common and often disappears as they grow. It’s most unfortunate that you were not aware but more concerning is the comment by your veterinarian. A good veterinarian knows all to well the many symptoms associated with teething and teary eyes is at the top.
> Secondly, change of colour within the havanese breed is most likely, some lighten and some get darker as they mature. This is not just associated with havanese but also in many other breeds like the Shih Tzu. Shih Tzu can change colour more than once during their life time.
> Thirdly, I’m not sure what your groomer was referring to with the statement ”the eyes are terrible” but if you are referencing staining around the eyes there can be many contributing factors from your tap water, foods you feed, or genetics. I suggest you take the time to research this topic as it may help you to understand and also to find solutions.
> Also, just because a breeder in not a member of a parent club does not mean they are not a good, dedicated breeder that breeds for health and structure. Many choose not to become a member as in many cases being a member takes time, work and its just easier not to be involved in another club. Breeding and showing dogs is a very expensive sport and, as we all know, the price of veterinarian visits has increased exponentially. It seems all costs associated with owning a pet have risen.
> Many breeders propose contracts to aid them in continuing with their breeding programs, they are terms set forth prior to an agreement being made so each potential puppy purchaser can either agree or disagree to the terms before signing in.
> I hope this helps give some clarification to your concerns and that you love and care for your puppy. I do agree that all parties should meet, its alway a good idea to visit, meet the puppies, see how they are being raised and meet the breeder prior to purchasing.
> 
> In closing I am not affiliated with Mistry Trails and do not even own a Havanese but I do show and breed Shih Tzu. Each breeder sets their own parameters and I for one do not ship and would never sell unless the purchaser has visited my home and my puppies.
> 
> Good Luck and enjoy!


I'd like to point out that you are responding to a thread that is 9 years old.


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