# Flea and Tick WARNING



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

__
https://178817671296%2Ffda-warning-flea-tick-products%23.W7oyGmhKjIU


----------



## katscleancutdogs (May 18, 2016)

Wow. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

I use advantix II (so not on the list), but since Perry is only in our yard (we don't go out on walks), I don't use it very often, maybe once every 3-4 months, if that. I did use it more often when we had my landlord's dog here because she did go out and would sometimes come back with ticks, but since she's been gone, I have reduced Perry's dose even more. I do usually give it to him before we go to the US in the summer - I haven't decided if he'll get a dose before we go in December or not, yet.


----------



## Jeanniek (Mar 20, 2018)

Good article. 
My vet requested I have Zumba checked for the MDR1 mutation before she would prescribe a heartworm medication. More info can be gotten at: Washington State University VCPL - MDR1 Test . She said though it started mostly as a collie mutation, it is appearing on small breed dogs. I am also thankful for Wondercide. It"s easy to apply and I don't have to worry about what the chemicals are doing to her body.


----------



## GlenK (Feb 9, 2016)

Rocky's taking Sentinel Spectrum which is not on the list. The vet recommended Bravecto® early on, but it made Rocky sick for two days after first dose so we dropped in promptly.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> I use advantix II (so not on the list), but since Perry is only in our yard (we don't go out on walks), I don't use it very often, maybe once every 3-4 months, if that. I did use it more often when we had my landlord's dog here because she did go out and would sometimes come back with ticks, but since she's been gone, I have reduced Perry's dose even more. I do usually give it to him before we go to the US in the summer - I haven't decided if he'll get a dose before we go in December or not, yet.


I use Advantix II also, but that is a different class of drugs. I don't like using even that, but I have a long enough track record with my dogs that I fell more comfortable with it than with the newer ones. Like you, I don't use it often. I can usually get away with two doses a year, only when the ticks get bad.


----------



## lolo1 (Jul 24, 2018)

This past weekend, within 1 hour, our Jack went from completely fine, normal stool, to vomiting with bloody/liquid stool and very ill. We are lucky to have a 24 hour emergency vet two towns away, and I took him there in the middle of the night. He is 14 weeks and has not completed his vaccines yet so my immediate thought was Parvo, but the vet ruled that out with a “stool” sample he provided on the office floor. He was checked in, with a treatment plan and the vet was glad we brought him in so quickly because he was not dehydrated yet so everyone was optimistic about his chances. We were very worried to say the least. To make a long story shorter, thankfully he is home now, on a bland diet, antibiotics and a dewormer, but test and x-rays showed nothing. However, the morning before all this happened we gave him a Nexgard for the first time, and before we even saw this post we agreed that we would never give it to him again. I can’t say for sure this was the cause, but we eliminated a lot of possible causes through testing, x rays, and a reviewing of what he did that day. It was a lot to go through, and I am mad at myself for not researching Nexgard more thoroughly. Thank goodness he is on the upswing, but now I am concerned about long term effects. Our Vet is one of the best in the area, but I am going to be more careful from now on :crying:


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm so glad he's doing better! And I agree, whether you know, for sure, whether the Nexgard caused it or not, after that bad a reaction, I wouldn't feel safe using it again either!!! ...And I'd feel that way even if there weren't other bad reports about it. You never know what one particular animal is going to react badly to, but you sure don't want to try it again!!!


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Jeanniek said:


> Good article.
> My vet requested I have Zumba checked for the MDR1 mutation before she would prescribe a heartworm medication. More info can be gotten at: Washington State University VCPL - MDR1 Test . She said though it started mostly as a collie mutation, it is appearing on small breed dogs. I am also thankful for Wondercide. It"s easy to apply and I don't have to worry about what the chemicals are doing to her body.


Can you tell me a little more about what she said? Does she prescribe a different dose or a different medication altogether if the dog is positive for the mutation? I ask because I read that the U.S. preventative doses are safe even with the mutation, so i'm curious if there is other information she's considering? My dog has diarrhea for two full days every month after his heartworm medication but when I mentioned it to the vet he practically rolled his eyes. Since then I assumed it is probably the ingredients in the chew and not necessarily the heartwork medication itself, but this makes me curious. How much does it cost to test for it?


----------



## Jeanniek (Mar 20, 2018)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Can you tell me a little more about what she said? Does she prescribe a diff erent dose or a different medication altogether if the dog is positive for the mutation? I ask because I read that the U.S. preventative doses are safe even with the mutation, so i'm curious if there is other information she's considering? My dog has diarrhea for two full days every month after his heartworm medication but when I mentioned it to the vet he practically rolled his eyes. Since then I assumed it is probably the ingredients in the chew and not necessarily the heartwork medication itself, but this makes me curious. How much does it cost to test for it?


She said she and this other vet saw this trend where small dogs were either dying or getting very ill after taking heartworm medicine so it started them thinking of that mutation and if that was the cause of the problem. She recommended if the dog has the mutation, to not give the medicine but to be aware of the symptoms of heart worm and bring the dog in if there are any chances it is sick. She did say that was the least preferred option, but better than the medicine fatally affecting the dog.

The cost is $60. I received the cheek swabs in the mail within a few days. I was worried about swabbing Zumba's small mouth. Didn't want to hurt her but had no way to really know whether I got a good enough sample or not. Within a few days they notified me they had received the sample and another 5 days to let me know the results.


----------



## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*other options*



krandall said:


> I'm so glad he's doing better! And I agree, whether you know, for sure, whether the Nexgard caused it or not, after that bad a reaction, I wouldn't feel safe using it again either!!! ...And I'd feel that way even if there weren't other bad reports about it. You never know what one particular animal is going to react badly to, but you sure don't want to try it again!!!


I agree, especially when there are other options out there! It might be a different conversation if it was the only choice and was vital, but given the variety of possible preventatives out there, there's no reason to continue with something that has even a slight possibility of having caused the reaction.


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Jeanniek said:


> She recommended if the dog has the mutation, to not give the medicine but to be aware of the symptoms of heart worm and bring the dog in if there are any chances it is sick. She did say that was the least preferred option, but better than the medicine fatally affecting the dog.


I'm a little surprised because I thought one of the dangers of heartworm is that dogs often don't display symptoms until the infection has matured. Our vet told us heartworm is a huge problem in our area, and he sees a large number of pets with heartworm. He gave me some terrifying statistic I've finally been able to forget! Since our dog goes to daycare frequently I don't think it wouldn't be worth the risk to not use a preventative treatment at all. It seems like prevention meds could be even more important if the dog has the mutation because the treatment doses are much higher. I guess the IF is key, and it's probably a good idea to do the test before worrying about it.

I wonder if the mutation just makes it too difficult to predict how to adjust the dosage? I could see that being a problem if too low of a dose could cause resistance the way it can with antibiotics, it's like a lose-lose.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I'm a little surprised because I thought one of the dangers of heartworm is that dogs often don't display symptoms until the infection has matured. Our vet told us heartworm is a huge problem in our area, and he sees a large number of pets with heartworm. He gave me some terrifying statistic I've finally been able to forget! Since our dog goes to daycare frequently I don't think it wouldn't be worth the risk to not use a preventative treatment at all. It seems like prevention meds could be even more important if the dog has the mutation because the treatment doses are much higher. I guess the IF is key, and it's probably a good idea to do the test before worrying about it.
> 
> I wonder if the mutation just makes it too difficult to predict how to adjust the dosage? I could see that being a problem if too low of a dose could cause resistance the way it can with antibiotics, it's like a lose-lose.


There is more than one heartworm med too... and dogs that have the mutation, as far as I know, can take heartworm meds, they just have to be given specific ones.

Heartworm is not transmitted dog to dog, so there is no additional risk with a dog in daycare. It is transmitted by infected mosquitos. I would not play around with heartworm in areas with high rates of infection (the south) Because of our long cold season, it is MUCH less common where we live. In fact, it is usually rescues from the deep south that show up here, already infected.

Because we live in the north with MUCH less risk (though not NO risk) of infection, we use a middle of the road approach. My dogs get Interceptor 4 times during the warm part of the year, at a 6 week interval. Then they are checked for Heartworm in the spring, before starting the meds back up. For us, this is the best way to protect them against a dangerous disease, while at the same time limiting their exposure to potentially toxic chemicals. But I would only use this method if you live in a part of the country where Heartworm is rare and you have discussed it with your vet.


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> There is more than one heartworm med too... and dogs that have the mutation, as far as I know, can take heartworm meds, they just have to be given specific ones.
> 
> Heartworm is not transmitted dog to dog, so there is no additional risk with a dog in daycare. It is transmitted by infected mosquitos. I would not play around with heartworm in areas with high rates of infection (the south) Because of our long cold season, it is MUCH less common where we live. In fact, it is usually rescues from the deep south that show up here, already infected.
> 
> Because we live in the north with MUCH less risk (though not NO risk) of infection, we use a middle of the road approach. My dogs get Interceptor 4 times during the warm part of the year, at a 6 week interval. Then they are checked for Heartworm in the spring, before starting the meds back up. For us, this is the best way to protect them against a dangerous disease, while at the same time limiting their exposure to potentially toxic chemicals. But I would only use this method if you live in a part of the country where Heartworm is rare and you have discussed it with your vet.


Okay this is all just clicking together now with what the vet said. We live right next to the lake, near wetlands, where mosquitoes are really bad. Before I moved next to the lake I hadn't been bitten by a mosquito in the entire 15 years I've lived in the state, and then one morning after we moved here our porch was so swarmed with mosquitoes I couldn't open the front door. I seriously cried - I grew up in Oregon and I'd never seen anything like it! Other than these tiny pockets, our state is so dry there really isn't a mosquito issue, so I don't think people are concerned about it. He said the only cases of fleas he seen are from out of state, but people ask about flea meds all the time when heartworm is such a huge problem in our community. I didn't realize when he said "community" he really meant it in a smaller way.

The other parasites that are targeted with the preventative (like Heartgard plus) can be transferred from dog to dog, though, right? How do you manage those?


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Okay this is all just clicking together now with what the vet said. We live right next to the lake, near wetlands, where mosquitoes are really bad. Before I moved next to the lake I hadn't been bitten by a mosquito in the entire 15 years I've lived in the state, and then one morning after we moved here our porch was so swarmed with mosquitoes I couldn't open the front door. I seriously cried - I grew up in Oregon and I'd never seen anything like it! Other than these tiny pockets, our state is so dry there really isn't a mosquito issue, so I don't think people are concerned about it. He said the only cases of fleas he seen are from out of state, but people ask about flea meds all the time when heartworm is such a huge problem in our community. I didn't realize when he said "community" he really meant it in a smaller way.
> 
> The other parasites that are targeted with the preventative (like Heartgard plus) can be transferred from dog to dog, though, right? How do you manage those?


Yes. "Heartworm", literally, are worms that infest the heart, lungs, and bloodstream. So the class of drugs that gets them also kills many other worms. And yes, if you don't use heartworm meds, you may also need to use another form of wormer, depending on what your dog comes in contact with. Again, my dogs have a fecal done at least yearly, to catch any intestinal parasite load that could be brewing, and obviously, if I suspected a problem, I'd have them checked earlier.


----------



## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

My Dr. Dodds list vet has my pups on intercepter and we also use Advantix II. The idea of giving my dogs something to swallow that would kill bugs on their skin always sounded nuts to me.


----------



## GlenK (Feb 9, 2016)

We live in Florida so heartworm meds are a must. Mosquitos are everywhere!! Including in the house almost every time you open a door.


----------



## autumnwind (Sep 22, 2016)

*Flea & Tick Warning*

Dave, I want to thank you for the heads up on NexGard. My Lil Bear was due for his flea med. Mon. However, I held off as he seemed to itch a lot after taking it last month. Was using Frontline before with no problem. I bought 6mo supply but hopefully they will refund. Thanks, Donna


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> Yes. "Heartworm", literally, are worms that infest the heart, lungs, and bloodstream. So the class of drugs that gets them also kills many other worms. And yes, if you don't use heartworm meds, you may also need to use another form of wormer, depending on what your dog comes in contact with. Again, my dogs have a fecal done at least yearly, to catch any intestinal parasite load that could be brewing, and obviously, if I suspected a problem, I'd have them checked earlier.


We just did a fecal panel last week. They gave me an estimate before, but then something came up and my husband ended up picking up the dog and paying the bill. He texted me, "Did you know this test is $&;@ dollars?" Then a few seconds later, "Nvm." So when you said you do it yearly it was already on my mind that it's expensive, and then it occurred to me, you're doing it for 3! They're just so cute it's worth it.

I'm thankful for all I'm learning, but this makes me even more grateful I'm becoming more comfortable with our vet. It's hard to navigate these issues and all of the factors to consider. I was a little insecure about how to work with a vet after seeing some of the other vets in the same clinic and not liking them as much. Like the eye rolling vet. we've had a few extra visits lately since he's been sick and it makes such a difference when we see the vet who communicates well and seems to get us and our goals. It helps to see someone I can take these kind of concerns to and will help walk us through them.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

GlenK said:


> We live in Florida so heartworm meds are a must. Mosquitos are everywhere!! Including in the house almost every time you open a door.


Yes, it really does depend on where you live!


----------



## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Thanks for the warning. Scout and Truffles have been on NexGard for over a year without any problems. I have an unopened box that I'm going to return. I'll have to replace it with something else since ticks are a big problem here.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> We just did a fecal panel last week. They gave me an estimate before, but then something came up and my husband ended up picking up the dog and paying the bill. He texted me, "Did you know this test is $&;@ dollars?" Then a few seconds later, "Nvm." So when you said you do it yearly it was already on my mind that it's expensive, and then it occurred to me, you're doing it for 3! They're just so cute it's worth it.
> 
> I'm thankful for all I'm learning, but this makes me even more grateful I'm becoming more comfortable with our vet. It's hard to navigate these issues and all of the factors to consider. I was a little insecure about how to work with a vet after seeing some of the other vets in the same clinic and not liking them as much. Like the eye rolling vet. we've had a few extra visits lately since he's been sick and it makes such a difference when we see the vet who communicates well and seems to get us and our goals. It helps to see someone I can take these kind of concerns to and will help walk us through them.


Yes, preventive medicine can be expensive... but it can be a lot more expensive NOT to do it! And yes, 3 is a lot more expensive than 1. &#55357;&#56841;

As far as vets go, I am SO lucky that way. My regular vet is fantastic, and I trust her input. She also never forces anything down your throat, but explains the pros and cons to help you decide. I've only seen her co-workers for urgent care issues, but I've been impressed with them as well... and our regular vet ALWAYS calls to follow up if we've had to see someone else for urgent care. I travel a pretty long way for this vet... past at least a dozen other, closer, practices, but it is well worth it, IMO.


----------



## FutureHavMom (Oct 17, 2017)

Same thing happened to our Winston in June, though there was no blood in his stool. The Nexgard made him sicker than I've ever seen an animal. It took 5 weeks for his stomach to heal. We gave him a steady diet of boiled chicken and baked sweet potato with a daily probiotic. Once he returned to normal we re-introduced his kibble slowly. We haven't given him any flea or tick medicine since then.


----------



## lolo1 (Jul 24, 2018)

FutureHavMom said:


> Same thing happened to our Winston in June, though there was no blood in his stool. The Nexgard made him sicker than I've ever seen an animal. It took 5 weeks for his stomach to heal. We gave him a steady diet of boiled chicken and baked sweet potato with a daily probiotic. Once he returned to normal we re-introduced his kibble slowly. We haven't given him any flea or tick medicine since then.


I'm sorry you went through this too. We are headed into the colder months, so I have some time to do some more research on this, but I'm with you and thinking of going without any prevention in the future or something very basic. I'm sorry it took so long for Winston to recover, but thank you for providing that information. Jack is a lot better than he was, but I'm being super careful as his recovery seems slow as well.


----------



## Jeanniek (Mar 20, 2018)

GlenK said:


> We live in Florida so heartworm meds are a must. Mosquitos are everywhere!! Including in the house almost every time you open a door.


Glen, what do you give your dog? We saw the vet yesterday and she prescribed Heartguard. The thing is she said to gt for less than 10 lbs, but the site she recommended says it is for 0-25 lbs. which seems to me like too big of a range. So I am thinking she meant get a Heartworm medication for puppies less than 10 lbs, regardless of the brand, and am looking for other options. I am in Central Florida.


----------



## GlenK (Feb 9, 2016)

Jeanniek said:


> Glen, what do you give your dog? We saw the vet yesterday and she prescribed Heartguard. The thing is she said to gt for less than 10 lbs, but the site she recommended says it is for 0-25 lbs. which seems to me like too big of a range. So I am thinking she meant get a Heartworm medication for puppies less than 10 lbs, regardless of the brand, and am looking for other options. I am in Central Florida.


We live in St Augustine and Rocky takes Sentinel Spectrum. It is for heart worms, fleas, tapeworms, whipworms, roundworms, and hookworms. Rocky is 13.6 lbs so he takes the 8.1 to 25lbs dosage. It doesn't bother him at all and seems to work.

It just doesn't do anything for ticks so we have to be careful there about where we go. Check him carefully.


----------



## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Jeanniek said:


> Glen, what do you give your dog? We saw the vet yesterday and she prescribed Heartguard. The thing is she said to gt for less than 10 lbs, but the site she recommended says it is for 0-25 lbs. which seems to me like too big of a range. So I am thinking she meant get a Heartworm medication for puppies less than 10 lbs, regardless of the brand, and am looking for other options. I am in Central Florida.


I just wanted to say that Molly has been on Heartgard Plus since she was a puppy, so for almost five years. She was 3.4 lbs. when we got her and is 7.5 lbs. full grown. We have not had any reactions of any kind with this medicine. Molly also loves the taste of it and acts like you are giving her filet mignon!


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I actually learned when the vet’s office called by mistake to schedule a screening that most people in my area do not use year round heart worm prevention. Our vet has been recommending it to anyone living by the lake because he has seen so many cases. Everyone else does a yearly screening for heartworm like a few others have mentioned here. We use Heartguard, and I still have a couple of doses left, but the more I think about it I want to do the test. It always gives him diarrhea for a couple of days, and i felt like I just had to deal with it, but it’s a huge pain. It could just be the food product, but if he’s going to be on it his whole life it would be good to know.


----------



## tklp55 (Mar 29, 2018)

Maybe it depends on how prevalent it is in your area. It is almost unheard of in our area so I refuse to add another toxic thing to Diva's system (Heart Wormer). She never got a single tic this year until suddenly last week she got two bubbled up tics on her. We removed them. Even the cat, who's discovered hunting at age 3 and is out a lot hasn't gotten a tic.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tklp55 said:


> Maybe it depends on how prevalent it is in your area. It is almost unheard of in our area so I refuse to add another toxic thing to Diva's system (Heart Wormer). She never got a single tic this year until suddenly last week she got two bubbled up tics on her. We removed them. Even the cat, who's discovered hunting at age 3 and is out a lot hasn't gotten a tic.


But heartworm doesn't come from ticks, it comes from mosquitos.


----------



## tklp55 (Mar 29, 2018)

Oh...
Our cat, (shown below, when she was trying to figure out hunting), is now a hunting maniac. Mostly she brings them to my (Alpha Wolf) husband, trying to impress him (which she has!), but occasionally she'll leave them where Diva gets hold of them. I've got a worming pill from the vet, but as Diva isn't showing any signs of worms yet, and the vet is so stingy with worming pills, I'm trying to wait to give it. Don't the rodents eventually hibernate once it gets solidly very cold (we're in Ohio)? We have wormed the cat, but she'll need it for sure again. I'd like to give Diva hers, but think I'll try to wait till the ground is solidly frozen and the rodents are hiding.
As far as other creatures in the yard, Diva now rarely uses her pet door in the night, preferring to snuggle. The only trouble we've had over the years is with male cats from the next farm down the road coming down to work over our (previous) cat.
Let's just say my husband puts an immediate end to that. They have outdoor cats that they just let proliferate. 
A loose dog is possible but so far all our neighbors who have dogs walk them on a leash and have good control of them.
Since Diva prefers to be velcro'd to me, she isn't outside that much unsupervised.


----------

