# Prayers for Ollie please



## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

As some of you know I have 3 dogs. anatolian female (130 lbs), Kara, anatolian male, 18 months (75 lbs) Oz, and a 1/2 shih tzu 1/2 hav male, Ollie, 2 yrs old, 16 lbs.

The boys usually get along fine. but they have always had resource guarding issues used to be food and myself being one of them. and the boys have 'fought' maybe 4 time over 1.5 yrs in front of me.

Both boys are certified therapy dogs with TDI and local agencies. Oz spent his first day at school, in a severely autistic class today. He did awesome and had a calming effect on everyone. It was Oz's first time doing it and spending the 'day' with me.

upon arriving home today, I noticed Oz was a little growly, upon entering the home. about 3 minutes later, I'm not sure what triggered it but Oz started to kick Ollie's ass. my hands were full, and the fight was behind me, so I immediately put my things down, and as I turn around I see how hard Oz is shaking Ollie.

I break it up and immediately notice Ollie's eye has a red tinge. the ER is only 5 min. from my house. dashed there asap.

Ollie is now in the ER and being held for at least 24 hours. He is blind in both eyes and has swelling on the brain. One eye is full of blood, the other is non-responsive, most likely due to the swelling on the brain. the vet is very optimistic he'll make a full recovery. they are giving Ollie a medication to reduce the swelling on the brain, and I will know in 2 hours if it has helped. xray for the neck was negative and no puncture marks. also no limb damage.

I'm just in shock. and feel I've failed both of them. 

So please pray for Ollie. he'll live. but you know, he might be blind or worse.

My knee jerk reaction is to give Oz away, but I don't give up on dogs easily, and I love both my boys very much. also Oz's litter was rescued at 4 days old. I've had him since he's 9 wks old. 

anyway, thanks for your prayers. I'll keep everyone posted.


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

How heartbreaking! My prayers are with you and Ollie. Wishing him a speedy and fully recovery!

Hugs
Renee


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

the vet called. Ollie has responded very well to the meds that reducing the swelling on the brain. he now has partial vision back in his non-blood eye.

thx again for the warm thought and all the prayers.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh wow...what a horrible situation for you. Poor little Ollie. I hope he recovers quickly and fully.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

How frightening. May little Ollie recover completely. My thoughts are with you both. :hug:


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Poor dogs and you.I hope little Ollie makes a full and speedy recovery.


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

OMG, how terrifying for everyone. I hope for Ollie's full recovery and that everyone gets along in the future.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

That is just horrible..I can't even imagine how sick inside you must feel. I hope the little guy makes a full recovery! Nobody can tell you how to handle the situation with Oz..but I would certainly think twice about having him around children in the future. ( sorry...just my 2 cents)


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

Thinking of Ollie today and your dog family.


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## Cindi (Sep 5, 2011)

Oh, how frightening and sad for everyone involved. My thoughts are definitely with you, too. I've read so many books and articles how dogs can respond to the cumulative effect of small stressors and it sounds like Oz must have hit his threshold and just that moment.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

OMG, I am so sorry to hear about Ollie! I hope he will make a full recovery. Poor little boy. Please let us know how he is doing later today.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear this. It just breaks my heart. Praying that little Ollie makes a full recovery.


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

We're praying that Ollie makes a full recovery and Oz learns to protect the little ones. We've thought about getting a large breed dog to go with our two havs. This gives me something to think about. I'm sure Oz meant no great harm, just trying to feel a little alpha after a hard day's work. He's only a pup.


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

Praying for a full recovery for Ollie and peace for you with this difficult situation. We had two English Bulldog male siblings who fought, so I know how you feel.


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## Kalico (Jan 11, 2012)

Oh I'm so sorry you are going through this. Thoughts and prayers with all of you.


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## JCChaplin (Oct 2, 2007)

I am so sorry to hear about Ollie. I am sending healing thoughts your way. I hope he makes a full recovery!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

So I went this morning to the ER to get an update on Ollie. Had a chance to see him as well.

They found two puncture marks on his head. One pierced very close to the right eye that is full of blood, and is most likely the cause of all the blood. Hard to say whether or not he will regain vision in that eye. it's a wait and see.

They put a shunt (drain) in that puncture wound by the right eye to let any fluid drain so as to relieve the pressure in the skull as well. unfortunately the puncture is on top of his head, and shunt usually drain downwards. 

He did well last night. He should be coming home this evening. They wanted to keep him to observe him, make sure neurologically he's ok. 

Thanks for all the warm thoughts and for all the healing prayers for Ollie. I know he needs them and appreciates them.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

I will keep him in my thoughts! And here is to a speedy recovery!


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

oh that poor little thing...bless his heart. What a tramatic ordeal you have all had to go through.I'm sure you will be glad to get him home!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Thoughts and prayers for you. Difficult situation for sure. I might recommend talking with a well qualified dog behaviorist or even a certified behaviorist. to see your best options.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

I am glad that he will be coming home tonight, but am wondering if he should be isolated from the other dogs. Did the vet have any more thoughts on his vision?


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

yes he will be separated from my other two dogs. he will never be left alone again with Oz.

the Vet says Ollie has vision in the 'good' eye, the eye with no blood. it's hard for me to tell b/c he's doped up on pain meds and is spacey.

the vet has estimated a 2-3 week recovery and is surprised how resilent and unaffected Ollie is from his injuries.

I am more concerned that Ollie's amazing, friendly, happy temperament (with other dogs) will be altered from this negative experience. I am hoping not.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm so sorry to hear this, and glad that Ollie seems to be recovering.

I have a good friend who has 3 large dogs and two little ones. One of the big ones is a Rottie. She is absolutely reliable with people, including small children. But she has limited patience/tolerance for small dogs. The problem when there is a large size disparity between dogs is that the larger one may do something that wouldn't hurt another dog its own size, and kill the smaller one by mistake. That is what happened to my friend and one of her pugs. The Rottie got aggravated, lunged at the pug and shook her. There wasn't even a mark on her, but the Rottie killed her in an instant. 

My friend is a very experienced dog trainer, and teaches dog training and behavior at a local college, so she really knows what she is doing with dogs. Like you, she is not someone who easily gives up on dogs. The way she has dealt with the situation is to gate the big dogs in one part of the house and the the little dogs in the other part. This way she can keep everyone safe, but didn't need to make the awful decision to get rid of one of her dogs.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

sprorchid said:


> yes he will be separated from my other two dogs. he will never be left alone again with Oz.
> 
> the Vet says Ollie has vision in the 'good' eye, the eye with no blood. it's hard for me to tell b/c he's doped up on pain meds and is spacey.
> 
> ...


To be honest with you, I think that is the ONLY option. It would be very difficult to try to reintroduce them again. Way to risky.


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

Hate to hear this but glad he's going to be ok. A friend who has Papillons was temporarily keeping an Islandic sheepdog for a friend. The big dog accidentally stepped on one of the Papillons and killed it. The big dog didn't do anything agressive, a pute accident. I'd never let one of my 2 Collies loose with my Havanese, just because of the size difference (& we know the Collie is a gentle breed) but this further made me think a good idea.


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## Mojo's Mom (Jun 6, 2009)

I'm curious in what order the three dogs came into the household. 

My friends have had Great Danes mixed with Cotons or Havanese for years, with no mishaps and great love amongst the dogs. BUT, they have always gotten the little dog first, then added the Great Dane puppy once the little dog is fully grown.

Having owned two dogs (fortunately equally matched) that fought, I can empathize with the love you feel for both and the horror over seeing one hurt the other.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

I believe she had the Anatolion female, Kara first, then got the Hav/Shih tzu, Ollie (male), and then she got the new Anatolion pup, Oz (male), who behaved badly...
I'm so glad to hear Ollie is improving! And I'm keeping him in my prayers! I'm so sorry you had to go through this, and I pray Ollie comes through it all unscathed in every way!!!!!!!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

Stacey is correct and gets the gold star.

Kara is 7 1/2 yrs old. sweet as pie and I think she's in love with Ollie.

then Ollie came at 8 wks old. the two always got along great.

Oz and Ollie been together since August 2010. didn't have fight club begin till Oz became sexually mature about 7 months old it started. 

That's the problem, Ollie doesn't know he's little, and thinks he should be behind Kara in the pack order, but Oz is MUCH bigger... I didn't draw a clear enough line for the boys. I allowed 'grumbling'. I don't blame the boys, I blame myself for not being a better alpha.

I do promise to straighten out my pack though and do whatever is necessary to keep them all safe. 

Ollie is coming home in a couple of hours. he's doing well. has a lot of pain on the side of the head with the 'blood eye', right side. he'll be coming home with 4 meds, 2 topical and 2 oral (antibotic and tramadol). 

Shunt will come out monday or tues. I want to see how the wound drains.


Karen - thanks for sharing your friend's tragedy. I helps me to feel a little better.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

LOL!!! Thank you! I LOVE to get a gold star!


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

Poor Ollie is in my thoughts and prayers. I hope he makes a full recovery.

Definitely consult with a certified behaviorist on how to handle the Ollie/Oz situation. Their size difference is too large to risk another attack - but I know you know that. 

Pepper sends hugs to Ollie - and we hope Oz is able to prove himself trustworthy again at some point.


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

OMG What a difficult situation. I hope Ollie gets better soon. Good luck.


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## mamacjt (Aug 23, 2011)

I had a friend with a wonderfully gentle male Great Dane and male Maltese. One day, the Great Dane just quickly turned and clunked heads with the Maltese, and the Maltese immediately keeled over. My friend rushed him to emergency where the doctors told her he had a severe concussion and would probably never wake up and if he did, he'd never be normal. No aggression, or anything....just the difference in size is not such a good idea.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

How is Ollie doing tonight? I'm so sorry you are having to go threw this:grouphug:


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

Hi all.

They told me to pick him up b/t 5-6pm. so I arrived at 4:40pm.

at 6pm they called my name to go thru the meds and shunt stuff. He's cleared for short walks on leash. He was very alert and peppy. and he has a good appetite. He can definitely see b/c he navigated our 5 min. walk in the dark with ease. 

Ollie is doing really well. it's b/c of all your good thoughts and mighty prayers. thanks so much. 

My house is only 1000 sq ft (California prices you know). the living room and dining room lead to the backyard (sliding glass door), and the two bedrooms have a bathroom in between on the other side of the house. a natural place to put a baby gate. so coming into the house, I had Ollie in my arms of course and everyone was friendly and polite. with Ollie on one side of a locked baby gate and Oz on the other, there was no growling or grief. Oz actually whined b/c he couldn't get to his brother.

Ollie's blood eye looks better (more open) and not as red this evening. the vet said that the blood eye should clear up b/t 5-7 days. then they can see if he has his vision back in that eye. the vet said aside from the eye test they do, they could tell his good eye was working b/c he would stare ppl down from the cage and beg to be let out when someone was close by.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

oh my gosh! I am so horrified to hear what has happened to sweet Ollie!!!
I pray he makes a full recovery and that there can be peace and safety in your home for everyone!!


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## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

Poor Ollie. Poor Oz. Hope they find peace together.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I had a male husky once that when he became sexually mature killed two stray puppies before I could say anything. I got rid of the dog. At the time I had a little schanuzer and would not take a chance. But before I found him a home, he came at me and the neighboring farmers calves. Then I had a trained doberman protection dog. He loved me and was so gentle, but tried to get to my grandchild and I had to hold her above my head to get back in the door with her. He left the premises the next morning. I do not give a second chance to a dog. I a so glad your ittle Ollie survived, but why put yourself and Ollie through having OZ around?


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

Lucile..I tend to agree with you.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I gasped when I read this. I'm so sorry Ollie had to go through this. I know your pain, loving both dogs and wanting to do the right thing for each. For me though, as much as I loved the other, I would not risk another attack ever. I actually had to make that decision a long time ago with two sisters. I adored the one who attacked the runt, Bandit. She did it more than once and, with tears in my eyes, and a lump in my throat, I found her a home in which she was the only one, with a young couple who loved her to death. Bandy went on to live a long and stress free life with me.

I pray that Ollie will regain the vision in his other eye and that he has no residual effect from this incident.


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## LunasMom (Sep 11, 2011)

I just read it so I didn't have to wait the hours you did not knowing how things would turn out. But I want to thank you for sharing this very painful event. Know such things can happen may allow others of us to beware. My son's Pug was attached by a Rottie in a dog park that allowed large and small dogs to mix. Luckily my daughter in law held on to her Pug and my son and two other men got hold of the larger dog. He hold was not as tight as it could have been so they were able to free the Pug who suffered minimal damage. I am so glad your little one survived and has sight in at least one eye.


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## whitzend (Dec 1, 2011)

So glad Ollie is home and doing well. I would be very careful from now on. It's hard to make a decision when you love both so much. But think with your brain and not your heart. What is best for both is what counts. It could happen again and keeping everyone separated is not fair to either one.
Sorry just my 2 cents 

Linda Cooper's Mom


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## jemmax (Jan 3, 2012)

I am so glad Ollie is home and seems in good spirits - it is a terrible ordeal for you all to go through and ultimately only you know what is best for all of you - thinking of you all


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

So glad to hear that Ollie is healing and that he has vision in at least one eye. May he continue to heal and do well.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

Good morning all,

Ollie made it through the night just fine. I'll admit that I spent 3 hours watching him sleep, just thankful he made it through and I still have him. he's got a good appetite and he's alert.

I thought this was funny, at the vet, the techs were telling me they knew he could see b/c he would stare them down (when he was in the cage) and would follow them around the room with his eye.. and then when they would open his cage he would launch himself into their arms.

I love anatolians as much as you all love Havs. and you are all welcome to give me your two cents, but Oz is a rescue (and so is Kara) and I am their forever home. I take this responsibility very seriously (and fosters too). 

I'm not going to lie, Ollie came to me after my cherished male anatolian Cosmo died. and I was so distraught... that and Ollie is my first small dog... If I could only have one dog, it'd be Ollie. 

I got Cosmo at 5.5 yrs (big and white), and his story is that he was on death row, put there for alleged dog aggression on the across the street neighbor's dog (two separate occasions) Cosmo was about Oz's age at the time, the trainer that had been working with the family rescued him off of death row. I adopted him 2 yrs later, b/c he stayed in foster care for that long.
I certified Cosmo as a therapy dog. and everyone that met him (with me), was floored of his history. dude, he was just 1 step above a coma, he was SO mellow. and never ever onnce in the 5 yrs I had him, did he EVER should aggression to any other dog... but he did when he was younger.

anyway, Lucile - you are one of my favorite ppl on this forum, and I won't deny that I haven't thought about giving Oz up. His sister is adopted by a great lady, only has big dogs, and is in a neighboring city to me. she'd be the perfect person to take him. I'll be honest though, I don't give up on dogs. I tend not to give ppl a second chance.

BUT I love Oz, almost as much as I love Ollie and Kara. I say almost b/c Oz has eaten my entire set of living room furniture... never when I've been home.

For me the important thing is to learn from the situation, and for those of us who have big dogs and little dogs to know that it can happen. 

Thanks again all of you.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I am really glad that Ollie is doig well. Can't wait to hear about the blood-filled eye. As to what to do about the dogs, that is your decision to make and only you can make it. I know what I would do, but then what I would do and what your would do are two different things. I wish you well with the dogs. There may never be another problem with Cosmo.


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

What a heartbreaking story! I'm really sorry that you had to go true this :-(. I only can imagine how you must be feeling. Happy to hear that Ollie is doing so well!!! Hope that his other eye will fully recover. And that his sweet, happy disposition will not change, Will keep you in my prayers!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

Ollie had another good night. I decided to take the day off, so I can bring ollie into my normal vet this a.m. get the drain out of his head. and not rush around after work. plus I'm pretty tired from not sleeping well, and staying up to give meds and getting up early to give meds.

He can definitely see light in the blood eye. it's so much fun putting drops and ointment in the blood eye, I use my head lamp to see better and he squints the blood eye (even though I'm not shining it directly) but it is bright.
So that's a good sign.

I took a short vid of his face and head, but my download cable is at work.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

Thanks for the update. Are these the dogs in your avatar? Ollie on top?
Glad he is getting the TLC and please give him a belly rub from me.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

my avatar has Kara my anatolian female and Ollie at 8 wks old. they are in love with each other. I think Kara thinks he's her baby. never issues with the two of them.

here are the members of fight club. first rule of fight club: don't talk about fight club. you'd never know from this pic that they were members of fight club.










drain came out and Ollie is healing well. recheck on saturday. the vet I saw I've known for a long time (10 yrs) and she thinks Ollie will regain his vision in the blood eye. 
I'm going to take Ollie pop to work tomorrow, bought a crate for him and all.


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## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

Both beautiful. Oz is spectular looking.


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

I just saw this thread and am so glad that Ollie is doing well. I can't imagine having to choose between two dogs that you love. It's like choosing between two kids! I'm sure you'll do what you feel is right for your family. The important thing is that everyone is ok.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

Oz is one beautiful boy!


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

How awful! I'm so sorry to hear about this. I'm so glad Ollie is doing better now. What a fright!


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

sprorchid said:


> ...drain came out and Ollie is healing well. recheck on saturda. the vet I saw I've known for a long time (10 yrs) and she think Ollie will regain his vision in the blood eye.


That's a wonderful news! I'm so happy to read this!!!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks for sharing all this. Glad things are improving.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

How scary  I'm late to the thread, but I'm glad it is taking a turn for the better with good news about his eyes.

Gucci actually got attacked by a shih tzu last week, long story short, it was over food aggression, I broke it up, got bit on the hand protecting my baby.. but the dog belongs to one of my husband's employees (he has a dog open door policy at his office since we bring our dog) they are seldom there at the same time...but the point I am getting at, is the dogs' owner has owned the breed for years and was telling me how they are prone to be very food aggressive. (?) not sure how much merit to that.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread with another attack story..But what triggered it was, I was at my husband's desk reading him emails to him on the phone (he was out of town) and Gucci came to my feet and was attacked (the owner of the other dog thinks) because my husband gives Razzle (the shihtzu) jerky from that very spot and it triggered him to thinking she (my Guccigirl) was moving in on his jerky/ food territory. There was actually no food being dished out at the time..nor did I intend to give out treats to any said dog, but we were at the spot where my husband usually gives Razzle treats..

I think its hard to predict or know what will set dogs off. This particular instance was just the spot we were at, it could be a smell, a place, an item... I know if I were you I'd be neurotic worrying if it would happen again and how to prevent it  I'm sorry this happened. Keep us posted on the healing and fight club.

Kara (great dog's name, btw!!) I happened to name my son's 2 very popular dog names, Jake and Hunter and they'd be happy to know there is a dog named Kara in this world


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

No worries about the thread jack I thought it was relevant. I don't buy the shih tzu resource guarding...

I didn't name Kara, her previous adoptive family (couldn't keep her b/c the mom was very allergic) named her and were very thoughtful about choosing a name, so I kept it.

Nicknamed the boyz the Menendez brothers (that's what I'm calling them for now, as a joke ofcourse and never to their face). Ollie b/c he jumped so high as a pup (skate boarding term) and for his gait. and Oz b/c he was so mellow even as a pup, a friend said he seemed enchanted (made me think of the land of Oz).

anyway, Ollie is hanging in there. I told the kids at school that he bumped his head. Ollie, not being crate trained was VERY upset being crated, esp when the kids started to come for speech therapy. so after getting permission from all the kids, I let him out. sweet to see the compassion the kids had for Ollie's major boo boo.

I can tell his blood eye still hurts, b/c about an 7 hours into his eye pain meds, he starts to squint. He did this a lot the first day he was home.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

good news. His red eye is returning to brown. It just started this evening.

So Ollie has been coming to work with me all week, a combination of the weather (not riding my motorcycle) and Ollie sassing Oz thru the babygate.

So my boss, the school principal, she asked me yesterday if Ollie was a cyborg. making a reference to the terminator movies. I admitted that yes, he is the first prototype in the U.S. which is why he has so many tricks and so faithfully folows me every where even though he is offleash.

so I've been able to put the drops and ointment in his eye b/c he can't see so freehand, I basically blindside him and put the meds in. BUT tonight, he could see the ointment coming  b/c he would move when I got close. 

yes I was VERY happy. and I can see his pupil again. since the accident, Ollie has had a bright red eye with no lense, iris or pupil visible.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

so happpy to hear the Ollie is improving!! Keep it up Ollie!!
Thanks for the update!


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

I can imagine how happy you must be that Ollie is getting better :whoo:. So am I, great news!! Did he meet other dogs last days? How is he doing around them?


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

b/c he's on tramadol, a synthetic opiut, ollie has only been hanging out with my big female, Kara. we walk together, and every day I secure Oz, and let Ollie check out the yard.

we've run into dogs, but Ollie has been in my arms, non-reactive.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Thank goodness he is getting better. It sounds like mentally he has come through this unscathed. I wish the best for him and Oz.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

great to hear of his improvements. Keep em coming.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

Seems to me, like Ollie's gonna make a full recovery! I'm sooo happy for him, and You! Now I think ya gotta call in Ceaser or Victoria to learn how to bring Oz and Ollie back together in a safe way! And then the rest of us can watch it happen on an upcoming episode, OK? HeeHeeHee!!!


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

Yikes just read this whole thread, I gotta say I DO love this forum! Good luck to you and your fur family!!!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

*Nice to have big friends*

So I ran an errand today after work, gone maybe 4 hours...

tried the babygate at home. his big anatolian buddies liberated him.

Just eskew enough for Ollie to squeeze out. came home and Ollie was loose and they were all happy together.

back to the drawing board.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

wow, so they all just get along again?? I wonder what the heck happened that set Oz off like that!???


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

yup. all happy as clams.

Oz and Ollie are very attached to each other. they are similar in play level.

Oz is usually mellow and calm. I've seen Ollie fling himself at Oz and just bounce off of him. not sure if it was play or fight club (on ollie's part)... but Oz isn't usually reactive. 

I know that I am a trigger. but I also know they do fight when I'm not home. ok. I need to figure out how to keep them separated. I know ollie has separation anxiety, and I know that he might have liberated himself today. :suspicious:


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## AshleyCap (Dec 4, 2011)

I am so happy to hear of Ollie's recovery - what a scary incident! I can completely understand your heartache and love for both of your dogs and commend you on trying to make things work for all of you. I do hope things work out in the end and they an all just "GET ALONG"  Seems like Oz may have been aggressive towards Ollie because he had you all day long and he didn't want to share. 

I agree with Dave maybe a behaviorist would help. 

Good luck to you and Ollie, and Oz they are just gorgeous (as is Kara). Love reading about his recovery!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Maybe you'll have to get a big crate for Ollie when you are out of the house. (or a regular size one, but a big one would give him more room to move around)


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

:whoo:


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

I just read this thread and had a Sine wave of reactions. So glad Oz is on the mend.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

*update*

So I went to my regular vet today for a follow up.

good news - he might still get his vision back, the pressure within the eye was low, which is good (low of normal), no sign of glaucoma.

bad news - still lots of blood, too much to see anything worth noting.

my vet called a vet opthamologist, and ollie has 4 new meds to take.

from the ER he got:
anti-inflammatory non-steroidal eye drops
antibotic eye ointment
tramadol (synthetic opiut)
oral antibotic (for the bite wounds)

Now has (recommended by a vet Opthamologist):
Prednisone (steroid) oral
anti-inflammatory steroidal eye drops (works better)
cornea dialator (so that the cornea relax and contract to avoid scaring)
oral antibotic (same as before)

The opthamologist said blood can take a really long time to be re-absorbed. 
My vet wanted to be sure we are doing all we can to manage his eye, possible continued bleeding.

I was thoroughly impressed with her calling the opthamologist and with the optham. saying that his eye is too bloody to see anything and going to see the optham. would be a waste of money right now.

babygate update:

had dinner with a friend tonight and went gokarting (first time)... so my pack was left separated, but magically somehow reunited themselves by the time I got home :frusty: <sigh>

The good thing is no fight club... bad news - my dogs are smarter than me :der: I feel like wil-e-coyote going for the roadrunner.


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

I was just going to mention what your vet optham said that blood takes a long time to be reabsorbed by the body. I'm betting that he's gonna get all his eye sight back. You're a good momma and know your dogs best, so trust yourself.


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

Whe my daughter was 12, she got a very bad black eye while playing softball. Her eye was completely filled with blood. It took 6 months for it to totally heal; she had no vision problems. This is where "patience is a virtue" is the truth.


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## JacksSusan (Apr 6, 2011)

Please let us know how Ollie is doing! Glad he is getting better!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Glad to hear the good news in general. Secure the fort though, when you're gone. Hoping for more good news.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

I completely spaced that I have a couple of scat mats. I used them for my once beautiful leather couch.

Ollie hasn't quite figured out the mat yet. His paws are small enough that some times he has to get 3 or 4 on the mat, before completing the circuit. it's on the lowest setting, but it' enough to discourage him from standing in front of the babygate.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

eye update:
seems the anti-inflammatory steriodal drops are doing it's job. His eye is much clearer, still cloudy and red tinged but I'd say 50% better. I made an appt with the optham. on thursday morning. I'm worried if I wait I might miss an intervention that could save his vision. I'm still waiting to get the cornea dialating meds, it's not something kept in stock. might be back ordered (joy).

babygate update:
day 1: scat mat on Ollie's side - got out.

day 2: scat mat on Oz's side - got out.

day 3: tomorrow - the baby gate is in a place where there used to be a door. so I put the babygate on the side of the doorjam so houdini can't push the gate out, b/c the door jam is in the way. scat mat on Oz's side works well (fresh battery).

and someone (not sure who) marked a doggie bed in my room, it's usually where Oz sleeps (before fight club started) and I think it was him, b/c I did have the gate open and I saw Oz trot quickly out of my bedroom...


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

They are keeping you busy :biggrin1:. Happy to hear that Ollie is doing good.


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## whitzend (Dec 1, 2011)

So glad Ollie is doing so well. :whoo:


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

I'm glad Ollie is doing well! Sounds like you have a really good vet, too. I don't blame you - I would be making an appt. with the opthomologist (sp?) sooner, too! Hope things continue to go well. Good luck on keeping them apart! Sounds like they've got you beat!!!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

*Opthamology update*

Just came back from the optham. appt.

good news: eye is healing well, responding to the meds. no more blood in the eye.

bad news: Ollie will be blind in that eye. they can't be 100% sure but they are 99% sure, as he has a crease in his iris (the colored part) and non-reactive pupils. Highly likely he has a dettached retina. the lens is pushed in, which may cause irritation and or swelling, which may lead to removing the eye entirely, too early to tell.

the fluid in the eye is still pretty murky. so the optham. can't see clearly what's going on. recheck in 2 wks.


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## JCChaplin (Oct 2, 2007)

Glad he's doing well. Don't give up on the eye yet. Hopefully, once he heals, some vision will return. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

well,

one thing the opthamologist said is I guess it's a reflex, if you shine a light in one eye, the other pupil constricts.

nada for Ollie pop. I kinda of knew it wasn't looking too good, b/c every day I'd check his eye, and it was not reactive to light. when I put the cornea dialating drops in yesterday, no change. the pupil is really small in the affected eye.

we'll see. I'm just glad he's still alive, healthy and strong.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

sprorchid said:


> well,
> 
> one thing the opthamologist said is I guess it's a reflex, if you shine a light in one eye, the other pupil constricts.
> 
> ...


I agree, it would be great if he got the sight back in that eye, but he will do JUST fine, even if he doesn't!


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## whitzend (Dec 1, 2011)

sprorchid said:


> well,
> 
> one thing the opthamologist said is I guess it's a reflex, if you shine a light in one eye, the other pupil constricts.
> 
> ...


We had a poodle that lost an eye from an attack from larger dog and she did excellent. Think I was more upset with the loss than she was.

Ollie is healthy and strong other wise. With your caring and love he will be fine if his vision doesn't return in his eye. {{{Hugs}}} from Cooper


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

Just be thankful the other eye wasn't hurt too. He'll be fine, even if he looses vision in one eye.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

So, this weekend was interesting, Ollie retaliated and peed on all the bathmats in the bathroom in response to being on lockdown.

I have secured the fort, a scatmat on each side, I'll see if everyone is where they should be when I get home today.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

sprorchid said:


> So, this weekend was interesting, Ollie retaliated and peed on all the bathmats in the bathroom in response to being on lockdown.
> 
> I have secured the fort, a scatmat on each side, I'll see if everyone is where they should be when I get home today.


Good luck with that - sounds like Ollie is a real smarty-pants!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

*update*

So Ollie went for a follow up yesterday to the opthamologist.

permanently blind in the right eye. she said the blood as it clots leaves a film over the lens of the eye and therefore they cannot see to the back of the eye. the only way to tell what's really causing the blindness is to do an $800 ultrasound.

I passed on that. so he has low pressure in the right eye which is better than high pressure. typical of low pressure (5, 16-22 is normal), his eye will slowly shrink in size. this will cause a increasingly great gap b/t the orbit and eye lids, which will need irrigation and cleaning.

it's highly likely that he will eventually need his right eye removed, as it may become unsightly or painful (due to the small size). it's a simple surgery, and they sew the eyelid shut.

I could have a prosthetic orbit inserted into the sclera, $2500 surgery, and invasive with a long recovery.

Or I could get a glass eye for him (about $10k).

so we'll wait and see how quickly the eye is shrinking, back in 1 month to the opthamologist. he's doing well though, just about all the inflammation is gone.


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

So sorry to hear about Ollie's eye :-(. I was hoping it would heal eventually. 
How are thing going between him and Oz?


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## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm sorry about Ollie's eye  It's sounds like he's doing well otherwise and will be just fine without it.

How are you doing with everything? I can't imagine the amount of stress all this has caused you.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm sorry Ollies eye isn't going to heal. He will look beautiful no matter what ! I'm happy is is okay otherwise.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

Hope he's feeling okay and back to his happy self.
Interesting costs, I also think he'll be his cute self with the one eye.
Kisses to him and hope fight club is closed for good.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Oh, that's too bad about Ollie's eye. I too was hoping it would heal. I think I would go with the removal and sewing the lid shut. 

I am glad that he is doing well otherwise!


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear about that, I can't believe those prices! I'm glad Ollie's doing well though and hope things between he and Oz are okay.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Removing the eye won't be so bad. My daughter's spaniel mix lost an eye and it was not noticable because of the hair in her face, much like our pups. Just no more top knots.


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

Oh, I'm so sad for you and Ollie. This is a very difficult time for you all, not only because of Ollie's injuries but because of the tension in your home trying to manage all the dogs. I'm sending you all healing thoughts.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

We've had horses with one eye that have done everything in lesson programs, including jumping. The only thing you needed to remember was to not surprise them suddenly on their blind side. Dogs are so much less visual than horses (relying on scent and hearing more) that I think Ollie will do FINE without one eye. 

...And I agree, I wouldn't spend that much money OR put him through invasive surgery to give him a "cosmetic" eye... he won't care one way or the other!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks for the update, he'll be fine, .


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## whitzend (Dec 1, 2011)

Sorry about Ollie's eye sight. I think it will trouble you more than Ollie. Once the hair grows over it won't look so bad and he is already getting used to vision on one side. I know all that doesn't make it any easier.
Can't believe those prices :ear: {{hugs}} to you and Ollie.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks everyone.

Ollie is his regular fun, charming friendly self. one of the classrooms he works in, has a hamster, just got it. Fluffy. so I was to teach the kids, what 'fluffy' the adj. means.

Ollie was so in love with Fluffy, that when we put him away, Ollie followed the teach, who had the cage and wouldn't come back to the carpet to do tricks (we always close with tricks). at one point, I was holding fluffy, and he launched himself out of my hand. Ollie took the opprotunity to mouth fluffy, I quickly broke it up. yeah it was pretty funny.

someone asked how Ollie is going with Oz. Well, overall fine, but he is a little more grunty if Oz stands over him or hovers over him. Ollie will do that snort growl thing.they still play together, and Oz has been nothing but a gentleman goofball to Ollie.

yeah, I'm going to wait and see, hopefully his eye will shrink slowly.

He's chunked up a bit due to the pregnisone, but he'll tapering off that. hopefully he'll be his svelt self soon.

If you are wondering about the vet opthamologist pricing, it's about $100 a visit, they charge for every test (eye pressure, dialation...) but it's worth it to know what's going on.

when we were talking about surgery, I asked if I could keep the eye... working at a school and all, I could actually say it's all fun and games till someone loses an eye! don't worry I wouldn't show any kids the real eye, just trying to stay on the lighter side of things.

I'm sure Ollie has shaken it off and is moving along just fine, it's me that has the guilt and grief about it. 

as oprah says, if you know better, you do better. hopefully that's me.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

*Ollie and prednisone, enucleation*

I'm very new here I just read your entire thread.

Three cheers for you, for coping so well with Ollie, and meeting his needs.

How do you get Ollie off the prednisone? It's really a miracle drug, but I imagine you (and your vets - your regular vet, and your ophthalmologist) will be weaning Ollie off the prednisone gradually.

The dog I had before Camellia was diabetic. Prolonged use of steroids can contribute to the development of diabetes, though my dog Kumbi (Australian Terrier) inherited his diabetes; his sire had it, but wasn't diagnosed till he was five. In general, with diabetic dogs, we avoid steroids with very rare exceptions for very specific reasons.

Kumbi died on 8 June 2010 - NOT of diabetes, but of cancer. Diabetes can be managed, so that, barring other conditions, a dog has a normal life-span. Thought I'd mention that.

About enucleation - eye removal - one of the rescued dogs on the diabetes forum I frequent had this done a short while ago. We don't have very recent updates, but you might like to take a look, so I'll hunt up the thread for you.

Here's the full thread - very long, so I'll go find the part about the removal of the eye.

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2122

For the enucleation, you can start here:

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2122&page=10

There are pictures, which should be helpful (encouraging).

Anyone who reads there will recognize the devotion of the forum's members to their dogs - it's the same as here - of course, I recognize it here!

I am so wildly glad I found this forum - only a few days ago.

(Camellia has a thread on that forum as well - same as the blind dog Kobi, it's in the Everything Else part.)

Camellia waves her Magnificent Magic Wand in Ollie's favor, and in yours, too. I'll be watching for your updates on Ollie!

Fri, 17 Feb 2012 07:09:21 (PST)


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

Sorry..everyone has said it all.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

Great Kobi story! What a precious boy! So happy to know he's doing so well! Thank you for sharing, Carol!


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

dodrop82 said:


> Great Kobi story! What a precious boy! So happy to know he's doing so well! Thank you for sharing, Carol!


You could also have a look at Kevin's thread on Maggie, his other rescue he got after his beloved diabetic dog Ozzi died. That's a nice thread, too, and has some nice pictures.

That Kevin is perhaps a bit unusual, in that his knowledge on the medical side is greater than that of most forum members. And you can see his utter devotion to his dogs - same as I'm finding here, on THIS forum.

I do hope the example of enucleation will be a help to anybody who is facing a need for such surgery.

Fri, 17 Feb 2012 20:33:43 (PST)


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## Ryssa (Feb 17, 2012)

Terribly sorry to hear about what happened with Ollie and the difficulties ahead. But I am happy to hear he is doing better. I will keep him (and you) in my prayers.


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## ClaireVoyant (Jan 26, 2012)

Poor Ollie . . .sorry he and your family are going through this. But like Karen said, thankfully, our dogs are very auditory and I think he'll adjust just fine.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

Hey Carol,
thanks for posting up all the info about enucleation, and vocabulary word.

to borrow a phrase from the Matrix, 'it's inevitable'.

It is harder on me than Ollie. he doesn't seem to know he can't see out of that eye. makes me think he sees light, but he still gently bumps into things on that side. and if he walks with me and his blind eye is closest to my leg, he'll run into me. I know he'll adjust eventually.

the taper dose for pregnisone was from 2.5 mgs/BID, to 2.5 mg/qd then for 3 days, then 2.5 mg every other day till it's gone.


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## charley_brown (Mar 6, 2011)

Goodness! This makes me sad. 
I have a German Shepard at home but I keep him away from Charley. The german shepard is very territorial with his home & introducing Charley & him made me nervous. But it went well. However, Kahn (the german shepard) is almost "afraid" of Charley. The few times I have let them interact when Charley chases Kahn or tries to play, Kahn runs as fast as he can in the oppposite direction. 
Kahn is also about 11 years old. So I am terrified taht one day when I am not looking or have my back turned for a second that I could be in your shoes. For the most part, Kahn is outside and Charley is inside. It's really only at night time when Kahn is in the house (for sleeping purposes). And the boys NEVER play together in the backyard. They have seperate play times. 

So as sad as this is, it's a great reminder for people like me who have 2 very different dogs, to be mindful that although a bigger dog may not intend to hurt a smaller dog, we should do our best to micro manage their encounters. 

Thanks for sharing your story & I truly hope Ollie is well again soon!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

*video*

I finally was able to get the video off my camera. this was taken the 2nd day he got home. 1/22 I believe.

The eye was a little goopy from the antibotic ointment.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

Poor baby!! Ouch!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

*update 3/14*

So went yesterday to the 1 month follow up appt.

The vet was floored by how much better everything looked. eye pressure doubled to 8 (15-21 normal). the eye didn't shrink at all.

Ollie continues to bump into things (lightly). enucleation might be in the very distant future, yeah!

now we just need to lose the pregnisone weight.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

Wonderful news! Thank God! I love to hear good news!!!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks for the update! So glad to hear he is doing much better!


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

Glad to hear of improvement!


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Hooray for Ollie! :biggrin1: :whoo:


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Wonderful!


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

That really is good to hear!!:clap2:


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Very nice to read this!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

July 2012 update: was grooming ollie today, growing his coat out. he tends to guard whatever part of his body has a mat. he's been guarding his 'bad' knee for awhile, but i haven't checked it. today, my fingers lightely ran over that area. he's got a lot of water on the knee. gonna take him in tomorrow to see what they can do. it must be bothering him if he's guarding it (from me) but you wouldn't know it if you watched him, he plays and runs around like a crazy pup!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Oh, I hope that little Ollie is OK!


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## Izzy-bella (Mar 26, 2011)

I have been absent for a while so missed this...so glad his eyes are doing better and hope the knee is ok. Poor little thing he (and you) have been thru enough...happier days ahead for all of you.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

update: so the vet consulted with the dr that did the surgery, did an xray (I wanted to make sure it wasn't a tendon)... oh, it's just a ceroma, he needs to stay off the leg.

good and bad news. at least it's not bothering him. and it took 3 ppl to hold him down for his xray


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Glad to hear it's not too serious!!! Get well soon little guy!


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## Leah00 (Oct 21, 2011)

I just read all of this! So sorry that this happened to you but I'm very glad that he's ok.

I 100% understand when you say that you love them both and aren't the type to give up. I have been in similar situations. 

We haven't had any aggression with Jasper and Buttercup but she is so much bigger than him and plays so rough, that they are never allowed together without supervision. It's stressful to not be able to let them outside at the same time or let them just run around the house, but I have to be careful because I would hate for Jasper to get hurt. I'm hopeful that one day she will calm down, but until then...


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

I hear you Leah. My female is 140 lbs, and she has always played perfectly with little ollie, even when he was 8 weeks old and 3.5 lbs. Oz the middle weight, his issues are with pack order. they've never hurt each other playing. it's when Oz feels the need to put ollie in his place, and it's only around me, yes they boyz fight over me.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I am so sorry for you and Ollie and Oz too. what a difficult situation. My heart is breaking for your whole pack (humans included) Are you dogs spayed and neutered? 

so happy that Ollie is doing better. just tossing out a thought about OZ, if his behavior has changed suddenly, it could be a sigh of a thyroid issue. I might take OZ to the vet too and have him checked out. if you search Dr. Jean Dodds and Thyroid you will find that aggression is sometimes the first sign.


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