# Update on puppy search



## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

I'm finding it very frustrating looking for my female chocolate puppy. I have emailed and talked with many breeders. I'm finding it very interesting that I get very enthusiastic responses to my puppy inquiries until I ask about health testing- then NO MORE EMAILS from them!!!! I'm thinking there are alot of unethical chocolate breeders out there. I guess it's lucky I started looking early! There's a dog show coming up in my hometown this month- maybe there will be some breeders there to talk with. Any suggestions would be appreciated. thanks, Jocelyn


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

I think it is harder to find a specific color hav as there is so much variety and breeders don't know exactly what they will get. I think going to shows is you best bet as the breeders can get to know you. I would venture to say that there are a lot of unethical breeders out there, not just chocolate. There are also a lot of very good breeders and hopefully they can help steer you to your perfect puppy.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Jocelyn,

That's a really tough one. I know you are fairly close to me and there aren't a whole lot of breeders around us anyways, especially chocolates.

Unless you are willing to broaden your search to include other colors, you may be very limited and end up waiting a long time to get what you want. Like you, I did want a Cream Hav, but I wasn't completely commited to that...I did end up getting a cream, but I'd say that's probably more common than chocolate. I'm lucky that she's been so healthy and evaluated well, but now I think personality and temperment is probably the most important thing (after health!)..making a good match with you.

Maybe someone else knows of some breeders that health test and breed chocolates? Have you asked the HCA for a breeder referral?

Kara


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

It might be quite hard to find a chocolate. Even if both parents carry the chocolate gene, does that mean all offspring will aswel?

Ryan


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Kara, I do have the breeder referral list and you're right-not many breeders close to us. I have checked most of their websites( some don't have one), and did not contact any that did not have chocolates on their pages. They may get an occasional chocolate, but those may be far and few between. I was trying to narrow my search to those who were breeding chocolates on purpose since there are problems with the bite and pigment. I felt if I could find a really good breeder who was working on these issues, they would be the breeder I might want to use. Of course temperment, health and conformation are also very important to me- but I felt a good breeder would already be breeding for these traits. Ryan, since chocolate is a recessive gene,both must carry it. It doesn't necessarily mean that a chocolate bred to a chocolate will have all chocolate pups- but it does increase the chance you'll at least get some. I have talked with some very nice breeders, but many only very occasionally get chocolates in their litters. I guess I wanted to partly warn other people who might be looking for a chocolate puppy to please ask about health testing because many breeders who come up on the web when searching for chocolates don't seem to be testing. I have been conversing with a breeder this morning, though, that may be just what I've been searching for!!!!! Jocelyn


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## KristinFusco (Jun 5, 2007)

Jocelyn,

I realize that you really want a chocolate Havanese, but by choosing a puppy by a rare color and having so few options, perhaps you are limiting yourself to a puppy whose temperment may not suit your home.

There is a breeder in South Carolina whose kennel name is Ahavapicaro, and she raises two breeds in her home, Havanese and Russian Bolonkas. I believe the Bolonkas are small and may be non-shedding as well, and they all appear to be chocolate in color. She is relatively close by you as well. Her name is Patricia, and she was previously a member of the Delaware Valley Havanese Club before she moved to SC last year. I spoke with her on a few occasions and she was a very sweet person. Here is a link to her site: http://ahavapicaro.homestead.com/ I also believe that her breeding bitches have CHIC numbers which you can verify on offa.org, so it appears that she performs the health testing recommended by the HCA.

I haven't researched the genetics behind Havanese color inheritance, but if chocolate phenotype is indeed a recessive trait, then as someone who studies genetics I would think it would be difficult for a breeder to produce predominantly chocolate puppies without extreme line breeding or inbreeding, and line breeding should only be undertaken by a very experienced breeder with a superb knowledge of the standard and current health testing best practices.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Jocelyn,
I don't know anything about this breeder at all, but just found this online while looking at puppies...there's a cute female brown pup on the website that they are calling a chocolate (but it kinda looks like the nose is black...may be the lighting?). Anyway, thought you might want to take a look:
http://www.europeanhavanese.com/


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

thank you Kim and Kristen for your suggestions. I want a Havanese puppy ,not another breed, and if I need to compromise on color to find a puppy with the temperment and personality I want, then I'm willing to do that. After all- they're ALL ADORABLE!!!!! I guess the first one I saw was a chocolate and it's coloring was so unusual I fell in love. Since my first post I have talked with 3 very good chocolate breeders who do all the health testing and I would feel comfortable with one of their puppies. One in particular is my favorite so we'll see how it goes. Jocelyn


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Jocelyn, when you say Chocolate do you mean the hair or the nose/eyes?


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## melissaj4 (Feb 10, 2008)

_Good luck with your search. I know first hand it can be 
a booger! In my very little experience with dog shows
I have yet to see a chocolate. _


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Maryam, chocolate as in the nose and eyes. Melissa, the very first one I saw was at a dog show. A beautiful caramel color male with the chocolate nose- I wasn't looking for a dog at that time- wish I knew who he was. I did snap a picture and if I ever figure out how to post photos I'll post it( I am the least technical person I know!!!!). In talking to some breeders I gather it's difficult to get show quality chocolates-problems with pigment (a dilute chocolate), problems with the bite, and with the topline. As I'm not planning on showing it doesn't matter as much to me. But I do want a healthy, sweet, typical havanese temperment puppy. Jocelyn


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Jocelyn, if you took a picture of the dog and happened to get a human (owner or handler) in the photo, we can probably figure out the dog's identity pretty fast. The Havanese network isn't that big. 

I'm glad you are considering health and temperament first. Chocolate doesn't always last, but temperament will.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Jocelyn, I too am glad you consider health&temperament being more important! So basically you fell in love with the nose color? That's really cute...


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Kimberly, I looked at the photo. Not much of the handler visible but I'll still try to post the picture. Maryam- yeah, I guess I fell for that cute brown nose-call me :crazy: !!!!!!


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

hartman studio said:


> But I do want a healthy, sweet, typical havanese temperment puppy. Jocelyn


This is the best reason to get a hav! They have amazing personalities. It's nice to be able to get a color you want, just be prepared to wait longer to get one.


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

OK, trying to see if I can post this picture. I'm a technical idiot so bear with me


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Yea!!!!!!! It worked- see more than just a cute brown nose!!!!!! Jocelyn


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Jocelyn, you're right, but it is still probably enough to find the person attached to him/her. Do you want me to try? I would just need to know the date and location of the show where you saw him/her.


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

You never know. Someone may recognize the dog and let you know who the owner and breeder are.


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Kimberly, that would be great!!! It was at the Raleigh, North Carolina dog show last March. I don't remember which day it was as they sponser about 6 days of shows. I know it wasn't on the weekend. Would that be enough info?thanks, Jocelyn


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Cute! Reminds me of Dusty, only bigger, but I don't know of any relatives of hers in the Carolinas, and she wasn't there last March because she was with us!


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## elregalohavanese (Jun 20, 2007)

*dog*

You might be able to tell who it was or at least narrow the prospects by going to infodog. You can pull up shows by states and it will show which dogs were showing at last years shows, then you could try and look up those breeders....that is assuming the dog was showing?


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Jocelyn, I can see now, why you fell in love with a nose, LOL. It truly is an adorable pup with a yummy chocolate nose. Hope Kimberly will be able to help you find the breeder!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Awww- it looks like caramel coloring to me! I have seen a dog with that coloring before and thought it was unique and striking too!!!


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Yes,he was showing. He won best of breed the day I was watching. And my camera lightened his coloring a little, but he did look like a big caramel puff ball


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Jocelyn what beautiful color on that guy. My Riley’s mom is chocolate but her coat is a lot darker, browner. OK can't resist showing off Riley puppy pictures with mommy :biggrin1:


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

hartman studio said:


> Kimberly, that would be great!!! It was at the Raleigh, North Carolina dog show last March. I don't remember which day it was as they sponser about 6 days of shows. I know it wasn't on the weekend. Would that be enough info?thanks, Jocelyn


That info, along with the note that you said he won Best of Breed does help a lot. I can narrow it down pretty fast.

Tuesday 3/20/07 - Danville Kennel Club - Havanese BOB Winner
9 *CH LYNYEAR'S CARAMELO-DE-MIRAMAR*. TR 06070204. 10-13-02 
By Ch Namaskar Bernie Of Fuzzyfarm - Ch Pocotesoro's Abeja de Carino. Dog. Owner: Leora Levy., Greenwich, CT 06831. Breeder: Gail & Buck Farrenkopf. (Kathryn A Mines, Agent).

Wednesday 3/21/07 - Salisbury North Carolina Kennel Club - Havanese BOB
(Same as Tuesday)

Thursday 3/22/07 - Alamance Kennel Club, Inc - Havanese BOB Winner
(Same as Tues & Wed)

Friday 3/23/07 - Durham Kennel Club Inc - Havanese BOB Winner
Was won by a puppy bitch:
14 HARBOR-KELLEY'S MAGIC STARLET O'HARA. TR 56297702. 09-16-06 
/BP (3 Points) By Ch Harbor's Ziggy Stardust - Ch Lynyear-Harbor Hare'Nochi Guu. Owner: Phyllis Kelley & Connie Field., New Port Richey, Fl 34655. Breeder: Connie Field. (Harry Bennett, Agent).

Since you are pretty sure it wasn't on the weekend, I won't even pull up Saturday & Sunday's information on the BOB Winner. It looks pretty safe to me that the boy in your photo is Ch. Lynyear's Caramelo-De-Miramar, who is 5.5 years old now and was bred by Gail Farrenkopf. *EDITED TO ADD: It has been ruled out that it is not Hercules (Ch. Lynyear's Caramelo De Miramar).* (See a few replies down.)_Thanks Diane! _

I don't know anything about Gail, but after looking through some other information, I have found two people I know that can probably help you get in touch with her. Send me an e-mail or PM if you'd like that.


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

THANK YOU, KIMBERLY !!!!! Now that I hear the name I recognize it! I'll send you a pm.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Holy Toledo. I'm behind on my e-mails, but I just read that Hercules (Ch. Lynyear's Carmelo-De-Miramar) just won Best Dog at Crufts this week. That is a huge honor!

While Westminster is known across the U.S. as probably one of the biggest shows (in noteriety), Crufts is known as the biggest show in the world. It is wonderful to have a U.S. dog recognized like this.


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

Kimberly you are amazing how quickly you got that information pulled up! This forum is so helpful! LOL, here you were looking for the dog and it is making headlines everywhere.


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

I guess it wasn't just me that fell in love with him. Jocelyn


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## windfallhavs (Oct 19, 2006)

Kimberly...the dog in the photo she posted is NOT Hercules. He is black and white, not chocolate...he was actually shown at Westminster this year. Here is his gallery link

http://www.havanesegallery.hu/show_dog_en.php?id=10222

That is definitely not the same dog that she posted a picture of. Back to the drawing board! LOL


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

Nope, seems you have pretty good taste Jocelyn! It pays to be persistent in what you want. Hopefully things turn out well and you will find you wonderful chocolate havanese.

Oops, posted too soon! Seems it may be another dog. I am sure everyone will get if figured out for you.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh wow - I'm glad you knew that Diane! Obviously, I don't know Hercules. LOL!
I am guessing that Connie's bitch isn't a chocolate either, right?

Jocelyn, it would seem that it wasn't the Best of Breed winner of any of those days. I wonder if it was Winners Dog...???


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## havanesebyha (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm just reading this about Hercules and I can't believe the name - Hercules. My DH announced a couple of weeks ago that Kohana can have a baby brother (he didn't say when) and we are naming him Hercules and will call him Herc. Now, I will tell DH that Hercules won Crufts! He's beautiful!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Jocelyn, may I get your permission to snag the photo and upload it to one of my photo hosting sites? I have another idea on finding the owner or breeder.


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Sure, Kimberly. But I was almost sure he won best of breed. I'm pretty much of a dog show novice though,* so it could have been best of winners. I know that they took photos of him after the Havanese ring finished, as I got my photo when he was coming out of the ring where the photos were being taken. I thought his name had something to do with his color, so Carmelo(?) made sense to me as he was so caramel colored. oh well, so much for MY memory.:frusty:


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Could this possibly be the dog you fell in love with?

She is a female gold chocolate named Zujero Carmel Candy Apple "Carmi."

I put in the word "carmel" in the search part of the Havanese Gallery website and she looks an awful lot like your photo.


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## windfallhavs (Oct 19, 2006)

The dog's name is C.S.TA's Enzo and he was Winner's Dog, he was bred by Shawn Butler. Here is the link:

http://cstakennels.com/senors.html

Good luck with your puppy search!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Wooo Hoooo to Diane's researching skills! I was searching all over for his photo this morning, but I was typing it in like it was listed on Infodog "CSTA" and couldn't find it. In fact, I don't think any of the winners had listings over at the Havanese Gallery.

Hooray to Diane!


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Diane, wow-you are good. I've seen pictures of Enzo, but didn't connect the two. I've talked with Charlene Edwards (Shawn's mother). I'll have to tell her it's all Enzo's fault that I want a chocolate :becky:


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

I just looked at Enzo's picture again on the link you gave Diane- I don't know how I missed that he was the original chocolate I had seen. He looks just like my picture.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

:clap2: Diane :whoo:


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

The win goes to Diane. She was the first one to spot the mistake and corrected it. I still say it was a record in how fast the dog was located!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Kimberly-Diane,
:yo:You guys are awesome!:yo:
What a cute guy Enzo is!


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