# Kodi's First Formal Obedience Trial



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kodi and I did our first two formal obedience trials today. (CDSP) By now I'm used to Rally, but I was pretty nervous about this! (which is why I didn't mention it ahead of time!)

We got our first two legs of our Novice title, with two scores of 194 1/2! I was very happy with my little boy.

As I've mentioned, I lost my little Kodak video camera, and I haven't had time to replace it. So we used my iPhone. Not great video, but at least you'll get an idea of how we did.:biggrin1: (you can see it better if you enlarge it to full screen)






Cross your fingers for us... we've got two more trials tomorrow, and if we get one more Q, he'll have his Novice title.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Karen, what a happy boy, that was fun to watch! Thanks for posting the video for us. You two are a real treat to watch.

I've got a question for you... A looooong time ago I did obedience (AKC) with my dogs where we earned their CDs, (Companion Dog.) We weren't allowed to give treats, or pet them, and there weren't any jumps. What is this that you are doing, and do you know how it compares?

Oh, and for sure, my fingers are crossed for you and Kodi for tomorrow.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sheri said:


> Karen, what a happy boy, that was fun to watch! Thanks for posting the video for us. You two are a real treat to watch.
> 
> I've got a question for you... A looooong time ago I did obedience (AKC) with my dogs where we earned their CDs, (Companion Dog.) We weren't allowed to give treats, or pet them, and there weren't any jumps. What is this that you are doing, and do you know how it compares?
> 
> Oh, and for sure, my fingers are crossed for you and Kodi for tomorrow.


In AKC you are allowed to reward them with pats and praise now, at the end of an exercise, but no treats. People actually encourage their dogs to leap and jump to touch their hand, etc. In CDSP, you can also use treats, but they must stay in your pocket until the judge says "exercise finished" and the dog must remain in position at your side while you are giving them the treats. also, if you drop a treat, you lose points for it.

Because the treats can only be given at the end of an exercise and under controlled conditions, I don't think it would help you much if the dog couldn't do the exercises anyway. Personally, I like giving a treat more than all the leaping around I see in the AKC ring. It's like the difference between AKC Rally and APDT Rally. you can use food rewards after stationary exercises in APDT, but the courses are much longer and harder in APDT. we've found AKC Rally to be a piece of cake after APDT Rally.

As far as exercises are concerned, Novice level obedience is only a little different between AKC and CDSP. The two main differences are that the recall is over a jump in CDSP, and it's a straight recall in AKC, and the long sits and downs in AKC are replaced with an honor stay in CDSP.

This change was done because the folks who developed CDSP (it used to be St. Hubert's) felt that there were safety issues having a group of dogs loose in the ring together. I know that this is what has kept us from trying Novice AKC yet... Kodi just doesn't feel safe in a line of big dogs, and won't stay sitting. He just makes himself smaller and smaller until he's on the floor. Honestly, I worry about it too. Even if HE is the one who breaks, what if it sends a big dog near him into prey drive mode? It only takes one snap, and the little dog is dead. I know it doesn't happen often, but I don't want the one time to be my dog.

We probably will eventually get to the point that we do AKC Obedience, but we'll do it at toy dog shows where he isn't intimidated by being between an Rottie and a Husky. In the mean time, since a bunch of the training facilities in our area have started offering CDSP trials, I thought it would be a good way for us to start working on some formal obedience titles without the pressure of the long group stays.


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## Cailleach (Jan 30, 2010)

Very nice, loved watching the vid. So jealous that, as was mentioned you are allowed to use treats and praise. Can't do neither up here. I got reprimanded for "over petting" when I did my first trial. Much harder here..."Hubby we have to move stateside"...lol. :whoo:


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Another good job! Great video. That Kodi has the cutest little tushi!  Hope the rest of your weekend goes well too!


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

So lovely,Kodi looks so happy and pleased with himself [as he should].Well done both of you!


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

what a wonderful job!...I really enjoyed watching that! Smart pup!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Cailleach said:


> Very nice, loved watching the vid. So jealous that, as was mentioned you are allowed to use treats and praise. Can't do neither up here. I got reprimanded for "over petting" when I did my first trial. Much harder here..."Hubby we have to move stateside"...lol. :whoo:


You aren't even allowed to pat or interact with your dog between exercises (like AKC)? As I mentioned, I'm not sure that the treats are much more of a motivator than the attention, but I don't understand that they don't allow some sort of reward for good behavior. Are you sure it wasn't just that one judge?

I use treats in CDSP and APDT because the rules allow it, but honestly, he doesn't behave any differently at AKC trials where there is no food allowed in the ring. My feeling is that AKC doesn't want food in the ring because if people drop it, it's VERY distracting to other dogs. APDT and CDSP solve that by penalizing dropped food heavily. People are VERY careful of the kind of food they use, and making sure ALL of it gets into the dog's mouth.:biggrin1:


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## unjugetito (Jan 2, 2011)

*Kodi*

That was adorable. I love the little happy bounces at the end. You could really see he enjoyed himself. Going to need a poster of Kodi to put on Vanilla's wall as her role model LOL


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Karen,
Congrats to you and Kodi. 
The video was fun to watch. Kodi looks like a very happy dog!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Not only did you guys do a great job but Kodi's coat looks wonderful! During the video another dog barked and he didn't even flinch . Funny tho mine herd the bark and ran to the computer to see what was going on!
We are thinking of you and excited to here how it went today.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks, Karen, for that explanation. I've not been able to go to any trials of any sort in years, and things have obviously changed for the better.

When I competed with my Keeshond (about 30 years ago,) one time as we were going into the ring a 75 pound Belgian Tervuren walked by, grabbed my sweet boy by the neck, shook him, and threw him down! The judge didn't see it and we immediately had to go into the ring to compete; then at the end of that competition, we were in a line of long sits and down with this same dog a couple of dogs away. It was awful! I was young, nervous, and very lacking in self confidence and went along with it when I should have raised a stink!! (Now, it would be a very different story!) My sweet boy was perfect, although you could see him leaning away from this dog. He got a perfect score after all that! (We earned his CD in 4 trials, with a nearly perfect score.)

My keeshond was 40 pounds, with that very full coat. The Tervuren would have killed my Tucker, if he'd done the same thing to him! You have my full understanding and appreciation in not exposing Kodi to that risk!!

Looking forward to reading (and seeing?) how you and Kodi did today!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Go team. :whoo:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Well, today didn't go so well. In his run this morning, he was awesome in his heeling, figure eight and stand for exam. Then he broke his stay in the recall, so we NQ'd. 

He was really tired in the afternoon, and I thought about not even doing the 4th run, but went in, and he was very good again, tied for second. So we were called very quickly back to the ring for a run off. The judge was rushing us, and _I_ let myself be rushed and rattled, taking him back into the ring when I could tell he didn't feel ready. He was all over the place when we started heeling, then stopped and peed. Not only did that move us from second place to an NQ, but worse, I feel SO bad that I put him in that position. Next time, I'd forfeit th place before letting myself be rushed into the ring like that.

Oh well, lesson learned. He was still a very, VERY good boy.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Ah, well, good for you for knowing he was such a good boy, anyway, despite the circumstances! That's a really good team you've got going with the two of you. You'll both rest well tonight.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sheri said:


> Ah, well, good for you for knowing he was such a good boy, anyway, despite the circumstances! That's a really good team you've got going with the two of you. You'll both rest well tonight.


Thanks, Sheri. The worst part was feeling like I'd put him in a posirion where he HAD to make a bad choice.

The good thing is he doesn't hold it against me... He's snuggling with me now.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> Not only did you guys do a great job but Kodi's coat looks wonderful! During the video another dog barked and he didn't even flinch . Funny tho mine herd the bark and ran to the computer to see what was going on!
> We are thinking of you and excited to here how it went today.


Thanks Suzi. His coat is really pretty easy to maintain, now that he's an adult.

He's not afraid of other dogs unless they lunge at him. (I guess that's just smart!) He's been in so many classes and at so many trials with dogs barking near by that barking doesn't phase him in the least.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

that is awesome! ! I am SO proud and impressed! I love how they have all those people just standing there and he just goes about his business like a professional!!!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

krandall said:


> Thanks, Sheri. The worst part was feeling like I'd put him in a posirion where he HAD to make a bad choice.
> 
> The good thing is he doesn't hold it against me... He's snuggling with me now.


That is because you and he have such a positive history together in your training and experiences! 

I was in a position last March or April, when Augie and I tested for therapy dog certification, where I let the evaluator rush us, and I was so mad at myself after we got home, that I allowed her to do that. They are right when they say that the dog picks up on the handler's feelings of nervousness or being rattled. It's all an education and learning process. Thank you for sharing your experiences so that we can learn through them as well!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks. You guys make me feel better about a pretty rotten-feeling day!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

krandall said:


> Thanks. You guys make me feel better about a pretty rotten-feeling day!


I am so sorry you had a bad day today..I know Kodie forgave you right away. I bet that does not happen again...lol...What can you do in a situation like that Karen?


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

krandall said:


> Kodi and I did our first two formal obedience trials today. (CDSP) By now I'm used to Rally, but I was pretty nervous about this! (which is why I didn't mention it ahead of time!)
> 
> We got our first two legs of our Novice title, with two scores of 194 1/2! I was very happy with my little boy.
> 
> ...


Awww, he is such a cutie pie...I love to watch him work..you can tell he loves it..must be a good trainer there somewhere..?? ound:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> I am so sorry you had a bad day today..I know Kodie forgave you right away. I bet that does not happen again...lol...What can you do in a situation like that Karen?


AFTER the fact, a number of people told me that if I had just refused to go in, saying I had to take my dog out to potty, they would have had to wait for me. If they wouldn't wait for me, the next time I STILL wouldn't go in if I thought he wasn't ready. The worst thing that could happen is an NQ, (and I THINK I actually would have just ended up in 3rd place instead of 2nd) and at least I would have done the right thing for my dog. Who cares about a ribbon?


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## Jan D (Mar 13, 2007)

What a good by Kodi is!! It was fun watching the video...thanks for posting that. He's just adorable and so attentive!!


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## LunasMom (Sep 11, 2011)

Karen, I just saw the video but I didn't read all the posts because I just wanted to tell you how awesome I thought Kodi was in that video. I can not get over how he keeps looking up at you. He looks so much like Luna (or I guess Luna looks like him--he was here first) that I would love to imagine her looking up at me just like that. How did you get him to be so attentive:whoo:? I did basic (or novice) obedience with my Husky and he never was anywhere near so attentive. I am waiting until after the holidays to start Luna on obedience. She will be 6 months old then. How old was Kodi when you started working with him?


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

krandall said:


> AFTER the fact, a number of people told me that if I had just refused to go in, saying I had to take my dog out to potty, they would have had to wait for me. If they wouldn't wait for me, the next time I STILL wouldn't go in if I thought he wasn't ready. The worst thing that could happen is an NQ, (and I THINK I actually would have just ended up in 3rd place instead of 2nd) and at least I would have done the right thing for my dog. Who cares about a ribbon?


I know you will Karen, because you care more about the trust Kodi has in you to do the right thing...than any award!!! Beautiful relationship the two of you have!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LunasMom said:


> Karen, I just saw the video but I didn't read all the posts because I just wanted to tell you how awesome I thought Kodi was in that video. I can not get over how he keeps looking up at you. He looks so much like Luna (or I guess Luna looks like him--he was here first) that I would love to imagine her looking up at me just like that. How did you get him to be so attentive:whoo:? I did basic (or novice) obedience with my Husky and he never was anywhere near so attentive. I am waiting until after the holidays to start Luna on obedience. She will be 6 months old then. How old was Kodi when you started working with him?


Hi Carol,

He started in "school" at about 14 weeks, which was the first puppy class that started after I got him. We did Puppy K, then at least two rounds of "graduate puppy". (each set of classes is 6 weeks) We also went to a puppy drop-in class most Saturdays too. We probably started in an "Intro to Formal Obedience" when he was 6-7 months old, and started Rally run-throughs soon after that, at about 8 months. He started competing in Rally at about 15 months, and although he Q'd with good scores and finished his first title in 3 trials, he certainly wasn't consistent in terms of his attention at that point.

I would say that he was close to 2 before I was consistently getting the kind of attention you see here. (and he's better off leash than on)

I have friends with Siberians and Malamutes, and I think it's VERY hard to get the same type of attention out of those dogs. They are bred to be tough and independent. You and Luna will get there!


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

*Awesome*

Hi Karen,

It is such fun watching you two and Kodi is a star. This is just working through problems which you will. I am wondering if Keeper will ever be willing to 'work' if he doesn't see/smell a treat! He's very good even off-leash if a treat is in the picture. We shall see.

The trainer in his obedience class did teach me a valuable lesson when he consistently barked at a very large 8-month-old Portuguese Water Dog in his class. I was saying 'no bark' and praising him when he stopped. The instructor said he just was not interpreting it that way. No praise for stopping the bark. He took the lead outside the ring and when the PWD came in and he barked, he said a stern 'ACH!' and did a quick pull on his lead attached to his halter. He never barked again during the class with me. A collar is not in the picture for him and the instructor says it is fine--perhaps a little more difficult, but he agreed with me.

Good luck and I know you'll have it--it will be more than luck with you two.

Shirley


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShirleyH said:


> Hi Karen,
> 
> It is such fun watching you two and Kodi is a star. This is just working through problems which you will. I am wondering if Keeper will ever be willing to 'work' if he doesn't see/smell a treat! He's very good even off-leash if a treat is in the picture. We shall see.
> 
> ...


You'll get there with your heeling, but it does take time and oatience, especially with a little dog. There are number of methods that work well to help a bigger dog learn the right position that you just can't use with a little one. Just make sure you are using your treats as rewards, and you aren't luring with them. He WON'T learn if you are luring. (past the very initial stage). Also make sure that all treats are given RIGHT at the seam of your pant leg.

Well, I don't believe in the use of "leash snaps" to punish a dog, even if it's a harness rather than a collar. We don't use any punishment in training. If the goal is to make the dog WANT to work with you, it's really important that it be fun for the dog, and not a place where he worries about being punished.

It may have taken longer, but we solved Kodi's barking problem in class by removing him from class consistently every time he started. He very soon learned that he didn't get to play, and had to sit in the "boring office" with me ignoring him if he wouldn't keep his mouth shut.. When he had not really internalized this lesson, and was making it too difficult for me to participate in classes, we simply stopped doing group classes for a while, and did privates instead. (in his case, this didn't completely stop the barking, because he was "demand barking" at ME, not barking at other dogs. But it cut the problem down, because there was much less "wait time" in a private lesson than in a group class.

BTW, the barking on the video wasn't Kodi, it was a dog outside the ring.


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

Karen, I didn't feel badly about the tug on the lead. Keeper looked at the trainer as if to say 'oh, he means it' and didn't repeat the behavior. He is very good on commands and really pays attention. At home, it's a real hoot. The paper with his week's 'homework' is on my desk in my office. The training treats are on the kitchen pass-through counter. When I pick up the homework paper, Keeper immediately marches to the kitchen counter and sits, waiting to get his leash on. Any dog that bright can be trained. I'm going to take your advice on being sure the treat is given at the seam of the slacks.

Have a great day and kisses to Kodi.

Shirley


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

krandall said:


> You'll get there with your heeling, but it does take time and oatience, especially with a little dog. There are number of methods that work well to help a bigger dog learn the right position that you just can't use with a little one. Just make sure you are using your treats as rewards, and you aren't luring with them. He WON'T learn if you are luring. (past the very initial stage). Also make sure that all treats are given RIGHT at the seam of your pant leg.
> 
> Well, I don't believe in the use of "leash snaps" to punish a dog, even if it's a harness rather than a collar. We don't use any punishment in training. If the goal is to make the dog WANT to work with you, it's really important that it be fun for the dog, and not a place where he worries about being punished.
> 
> ...


I knew it was another dog barking, and I thought Kodi would pay some attention but he appeared completely focused on what he was doing with you...great focus!!


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## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

Great job Karen and Kodi! What a pleasure to watch, Kodi's such a good boy.


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## LunasMom (Sep 11, 2011)

Hi Karen,
Thanks so much for the description of Kodi's classwork history. It looks like a formula for success. Karen/ Kodi has become Carol/Luna's role model. lol Luna has finished her Puppy class and I am still working with her on heeling, sit, down, and stand (weakest of all three). There was no basic or novice class that started after the end of puppy class and I believe she would do better if I waited until January (after holidays) when she will be 6-7 months old just as Kodi was. I hope that adolescence will not be an issue then. Do you recall any behavior issues at that time with Kodi? From my readings regarding dogs in general I got the impression that adolescence is a hard time but I don't recall having issues with my Husky. Also, do you think Hav's mature a bit more slowly than bigger dogs?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kodi is my first dog, so I can't compare Havs to other breeds, other than what I see at our training center. And even there, I'm only able to compare Kodi, not Havs in general. (at least as far as obedience is concerned... I do agility with two other Hav owners.

I can tell you that few other dogs (other than those owned by the trainers) have progressed more quickly than Kodi has, and many far less quickly. The breeds I know of that tend to learn the fastest (other than Kodi) in obedience are Aussies and Duck Tollers. If I weren't allergic to them, I'd have a Toller in a heart beat!

As far as adolescent behavior is concerned, yes, Kodi went through it too, and according to our trainers, they ALL do, not just Havs. Kodi was "Peter Perfect" for his first 6 months, and could do no wrong... very attentive, learned things super fast, and always quiet. Then several things happened. Worst, as I remember it, is that he found his voice. He was in a class with adult dogs and people who were trying to work, and any time it wasn't his turn, he would bark at me. The trainer would tell me not to look at him or to turn my back, or to stand on the leash, but nothing worked. The few times he stopped barking and I thought he was finally "getting it", he was chewing up his leather obedience leash!!!. He also seemed to "forget" a lot of what he had previously learned, and became VERY distracted in terms of his heeling. 

The trainers just kept reminding me how young he was, and that this was normal, and we just patiently kept working through it. Eventually, it started coming together again.

Oh, and as far as the stand is concerned, there is a whole thread on that, between me and Linda (Augie and Finn's mom) probably in the Rally section of the forum, because we BOTH had trouble with the stand. It took NINE MONTHS before Kodi would RELIABLY stand and hold it.


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## Pattie (Jun 25, 2008)

Karen, you and Kodi are my idols. Great work.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Awww, thanks, Pattie!


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Hi Karen,

I finally got around to watching this video/reading the entire thread (sorry, but I wanted to wait until I had the time to focus on it!) and Karen, Kodi is BEAUTIFUL! I mean, I already knew that from your pictures of him, but, seeing a dog in motion is very different. He is just gorgeous!!

I liked the person's commentary behind the camera lol. Couldn't really tell what if anything she was saying at first, until the first time Kodi jumped up (which I assume he is not really not supposed to do) and she said, "Oh, KODI!" lol. Then she had a few more comments to make at the end. Anyway, I think Kodi did great - -I need to get Ceylon to that level of attention to me with distractions around!! Sorry if you had a not-so-great rest of the event, but, it's all a learning experience right? 

Anyway, he is just beautiful in motion, and, I can't believe how he doesn't even barely take his eyes off of you throughout the entire trial despite the dog barking, people walking around, etc. Wow!!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

krandall said:


> Kodi is my first dog, so I can't compare Havs to other breeds, other than what I see at our training center. And even there, I'm only able to compare Kodi, not Havs in general. (at least as far as obedience is concerned... I do agility with two other Hav owners.
> 
> I can tell you that few other dogs (other than those owned by the trainers) have progressed more quickly than Kodi has, and many far less quickly. The breeds I know of that tend to learn the fastest (other than Kodi) in obedience are Aussies and Duck Tollers. If I weren't allergic to them, I'd have a Toller in a heart beat!
> 
> ...


I cannot believe Kodi is your first dog and you have accomplished so much...great work Karen!!!


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## LunasMom (Sep 11, 2011)

Karen, Thank you so much for the detailed reply to all my questions. For those of us just starting out these details of events as the dogs mature are critical knowledge that will keep us from freaking when our "hard times" come. Knowing that Kodi went through some "not so perfect" times will surely make me feel better especially when I know that Luna is not "Peter Perfect" right now. I guess I should order some tranquilizers for me to take in January when she turns 6 months. lol


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

heatherk said:


> Hi Karen,
> 
> I finally got around to watching this video/reading the entire thread (sorry, but I wanted to wait until I had the time to focus on it!) and Karen, Kodi is BEAUTIFUL! I mean, I already knew that from your pictures of him, but, seeing a dog in motion is very different. He is just gorgeous!!
> 
> ...


Actually, it's fine that he jumps up in his fronts and finishes as long as he doesn't touch me with his paws. We've been working hard on that part and he didn't touch me during the trial... He used to SLAM me, he was so happy to be back with me, but now he's got it more under control. She just said, "Oh, Kodi" because everyone thinks his fronts and finishes are so cute. It has sort of become his "signature". Other dogs do it, but it doesn't look the same without all the hair flying!:biggrin1:

AS far as the NQ's are concerned, the one where he broke the sit is one of those things that "just happen" when you are dealing with a loose animal, and can only give a single voice command. The rest of that run was as nice as what you see on the video, so it's what we call a "good NQ", where he automatically NQ'd on one specific technicality, but was very good over all. There were people who Q'd, where _I_ wouldn't have been happy with the performance if it were my dog. For instance, there were several dogs who were so laggy in their heeling that they were at the very end of their lead, that's how far away from their handler they were. They Q'd because you can lose up to 30 points and still Q, but it wasn't pretty.

The second NQ, he had not only Q'd, with a score well over 190, but was tied for second place. Then the rush into the ring for the run-off (which is re-doing the heeling pattern, and he would have, normally done very well) when I didn't have a chance to let him potty first, was too much for him. THAT was DEFINITELY a learning experience. I really don't care about the Q, and I CERTAINLY don't care about whether he got second place or third. But I will NEVER let anyone feel like I HAVE to get him in the ring if he doesn't feel ready. I'd NQ myself rather than do that to him again.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> I cannot believe Kodi is your first dog and you have accomplished so much...great work Karen!!!


Thanks, Flynn, but remember that although Kodi is my first dog, I have more than 35 years experience training horses. So I'm not new to training animals.:biggrin1:

Somethings are quite different; the dog is loose (or at least at the end of a loose leash) while you have constant physical contact with the horse's body at all times. (unless things go VERY wrong:biggrin1 And a horse is a prey animal, whose natural instinct is to "run first and think later", while a dog is naturally bolder and more curious. Also, the potential ability to harm you, even though it's usually completely by mistake, is SO much greater with a horse. But keeping those differences in mind, you are still training a mammal, and need to develop a good relationship with them and teach them kindly and patiently if you expect a willing AND brilliant performance out of them.


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## GrannyMouse (Sep 3, 2010)

Congratulations! That was great.

We are on our 4th week of obedience training and having a blast. My only problem seems to be what type of collar to use. Any advice?


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Congrats.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

GrannyMouse said:


> Congratulations! That was great.
> 
> We are on our 4th week of obedience training and having a blast. My only problem seems to be what type of collar to use. Any advice?


IMO, there are really only two choices, and for Havs, only one. Either a flat buckle collar, I like rolled leather best because it causes less matting, or a limited slip martingale collar. The martingale collars are great for Greyhounds, Dobies and other dogs with large necks and small heads who might back out of a collar, but this isn't really a problem with Havs, and I think the martingale collars are hard to get off with all the hair.

What other type of collar were you considering?


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## GrannyMouse (Sep 3, 2010)

krandall said:


> IMO, there are really only two choices, and for Havs, only one. Either a flat buckle collar, I like rolled leather best because it causes less matting, or a limited slip martingale collar. The martingale collars are great for Greyhounds, Dobies and other dogs with large necks and small heads who might back out of a collar, but this isn't really a problem with Havs, and I think the martingale collars are hard to get off with all the hair.
> 
> What other type of collar were you considering?


I started with a nylon choke collar but her hair clogged up the release. I then changed to just a buckle collar which I'm using now I thought I'd try the rolled leather and see how that works.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

GrannyMouse said:


> I started with a nylon choke collar but her hair clogged up the release. I then changed to just a buckle collar which I'm using now I thought I'd try the rolled leather and see how that works.


Yeah, you definitely don't want a choke collar. I wouldn't use one on any dog, but especially not on a small, soft breed like a Havanese. At our training center, people aren't allowed in class with a choke collar.


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