# Groomer tomorrow / nervous about matts



## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Hi everyone

It will be Kipling's third time at a groomer tomorrow and I'm nervous about matts for the first time since we've had him. Though we do brush and work on matt's it seems they are showing up everywhere all of a sudden. Why is this? Is he due for a trim? I know split ends on women result in more tangles.

Anyway - my real question is this - can groomers get out stubborn matts under the 'armpits' likely caused by harness or are we doomed to have him with holes cut to remove those matts? I know I've tried and some have been so stubborn I've either left them or in some cases cut them out. 

Silly to be worrying about this...but I am. 

(I've also got Huey's pictures all ready to go to show the groomer what we'd like for Kipling tomorrow)


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## psvzum (Jun 11, 2009)

Our groomer is a miracle worker and has been successful getting 95% of Loki's mats out. She's careful not to work on him too long at a time. She has on occasion snipped some undue stress. 

Can groomers get out stubborn matts? Most of the time yes, if they're patient and not rushed.

Good luck : )


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

I think any good groomer CAN get them out--but most won't! It's more cost effective for them to shave the dog and move on to the next.


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## sandydlc (Aug 8, 2009)

My groomer told me that she can get mats out just by running the clippers through the area. If we were planning on trimming an area on Lucy that has mats, she tries that first before brushing or combing them out.

Since I brush Lucy every night, she rarely has any mats but when she does, they're not easy to get out!!

Sandy


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

How old is Kipling? He may be blowing coat and if he is he'll have lots of matting. The groomer should be able to trim under his arms so it won't show and it may help cut down on mats. Many groomers charge per mat or for time spent on mats so be sure to ask how you'll be charged!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice everyone - Ann Kipling is 8 months now....what exactly does blowing coat mean? I've heard the term but don't really understand it. Thanks for your help


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

He could be blowing coat then. They lose their puppy coat and the adult coat begins to grow in which can cause crazy matting! There are several threads on the forum so if you do a search you'll get lots more info than I can provide.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Ok - I'll look - thank you. Will post pictures later of a hopefully very pretty boy


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## JCChaplin (Oct 2, 2007)

This is definitely blowing coat. I have found that there are two things that have helped a lot. First, I use something called "the stuff" for dogs. It really helps with the mats if you use it every day. If there is a mat, I use a baby nail scissor (rounded tip) and I place the scissor at the bottom of the mat and cut straight up the middle vertically. This splits the mat down the middle and then you will be able to brush it out.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Ok thank you - just dropped him off at the groomer. She was quite relaxed and said that his matts really aren't bad at all. She was reassuring that she can get them dealt with. We also discussed my 'no uni-brow rule'



Fingers crossed he comes home fluffy, de-matted and smelling like a smoothie!


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Where do youtake Kipling to be groomed? We have tried quite a few different groomers for Beamer. We found that the groomers at Petsmart seem to be the best! We always get the same person to do Beamer and he always looks like a champ after. 

He just got groomed on Saturday and we went for the ultra spa package. Pretty pricey at $80.. but he smelt like strwaberries and cream...lol.. And they also brused his teeth! hahaha... First time he has EVER had his teeth brushed.. they said he was very confused and did not like it at all.. poor Beamer.. lol

Ryan

PS--we go to the petsmart at Woodbine and 7


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Beamer said:


> Where do youtake Kipling to be groomed? We have tried quite a few different groomers for Beamer. We found that the groomers at Petsmart seem to be the best! We always get the same person to do Beamer and he always looks like a champ after.
> 
> He just got groomed on Saturday and we went for the ultra spa package. Pretty pricey at $80.. but he smelt like strwaberries and cream...lol.. And they also brused his teeth! hahaha... First time he has EVER had his teeth brushed.. they said he was very confused and did not like it at all.. poor Beamer.. lol
> 
> ...


Maybe I chose the wrong petsmart....remember this?

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=10127&highlight=grow

I now take him to a place close to home called Coco's Doggie S'Paw. This will be their second time with him. I like that they listen as I go on and on about how we like him fluffy etc. So we'll see. I'll post pictures when he's home.

On the Toronto note - where do you get your brushes and/or combs for Beamer? Is there someone who sells the right brush? I still don't have a good one.

And where are Beamer's pictures? I'd like to see his beautiful strawberry look!


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

It sounds like he is blowing coat so you will need to use a comb on his coat daily to stay on top of it! Many forum members have either opted to shave them down at this point or if they can't keep up with the matting they end up with the groomer shaving them. A brush will skim right over the top and not get deep enough to get all the mats so be sure to test the coat with a comb afterwards! There are alot of thread on matting, just do a search!

I hope Kipling comes out nice today!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KSC said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> It will be Kipling's third time at a groomer tomorrow and I'm nervous about matts for the first time since we've had him. Though we do brush and work on matt's it seems they are showing up everywhere all of a sudden. Why is this? Is he due for a trim? I know split ends on women result in more tangles.
> 
> Anyway - my real question is this - can groomers get out stubborn matts under the 'armpits' likely caused by harness or are we doomed to have him with holes cut to remove those matts? I know I've tried and some have been so stubborn I've either left them or in some cases cut them out.


The ONLY place Kodi has matted was under his arm pits. I purposely cut the mats out and then shortened the hair there. You can't see it at all, and since then he hasn't gotten a single mat.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

good buddy said:


> It sounds like he is blowing coat so you will need to use a comb on his coat daily to stay on top of it! Many forum members have either opted to shave them down at this point or if they can't keep up with the matting they end up with the groomer shaving them. A brush will skim right over the top and not get deep enough to get all the mats so be sure to test the coat with a comb afterwards! There are alot of thread on matting, just do a search!
> 
> I hope Kipling comes out nice today!


Not just "test the coat", but I've found that it's the comb that gets out that soft, felt-like undercoat that wants to shed out. He's always got a big clump of it in the comb by the time I get done with him. I brush first, just to get the "big" work done, then go over him carefully with the comb, making sure there are no mats ANYWHERE.


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## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

Marley hates to be brushed, especially underneath his body, so mats form all the time in his armpits and tummy. I tell the groomer to trim the area there really short and shave if necessary and keep the rest longer. It looks perfectly fine and it's easier for everyone involved.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Looking forward to seeing the pictures!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Well he's back - happy, no uni-brow, and no more matts - smells like a smoothie. He wasn't cooperative about picture taking today so these are the best I could do. You can see his beard is wet - couldn't get a picture before he had a big drink.

As advised in a previous thread I asked the groomer to leave the hair to the outside of his eyes longer - what do you all think?


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

krandall said:


> Not just "test the coat", but I've found that it's the comb that gets out that soft, felt-like undercoat that wants to shed out. He's always got a big clump of it in the comb by the time I get done with him. I brush first, just to get the "big" work done, then go over him carefully with the comb, making sure there are no mats ANYWHERE.


Which brush and comb do you use? Can you point me to an image or brand name please?


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

We primarily use a greyhound comb on Beamer which you can buy anywhere. Its about 8 inches long and looks to be stainless steel. Works really well!
Will post pics of Beamers haircut later tonight!


Ryan


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

He is adorable!!!!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Just one more...post grooming relaxation


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

He looks very handsome-they did a nice job.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

He looks nice! He's poofy and still has a Hav face!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

good buddy said:


> He looks nice! He's poofy and still has a Hav face!


LOL..poofy is our technical term for how we like him to look and the groomer herself noted that he looks very Hav in how they did his face. I'm happy and glad you saw that too.


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## Mojo's Mom (Jun 6, 2009)

I'm so happy for you! You got just the look you wanted and he looks perfect.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

He really looks great, you're lucky to have a groomer you trust and who listens to you!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks everyone - I am lucky to have found a groomer that takes the time to listen but I've also benefited from my time here - I can now articulate much better what I want or don't want. Learning from all of you is helpful.


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## Maxmom (Jul 22, 2008)

He looks adorable and I agree about the relief that the groomer knows how to leave the Hav look.

Your baby is close to the age that mine started blowing coat. I suffered and my boys suffered until I finally forked over the money for a Chris Christensen butter comb and brush. It was the best purchase I've ever made for my dogs. The tools really do make a difference.

Another suggestion, if you don't mind, is to comb him daily now that you have a good groom on him. When they are blowing coat it is amazing how fast the matts come back. Even with every day combing, I barely was able to stay ahead of a major mess. Thank goodness blowing coat doesn't last forever! Now that my boys are 2 1/2, their coats are relatively easy to maintain.

Again, I want to tell you what an adorable baby you have!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Kipling looks great! and I love the post spa day nap! or is that yoga?


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

I think he looks adorable!! And he looks very relaxed and happy it is over!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Maxmom said:


> He looks adorable and I agree about the relief that the groomer knows how to leave the Hav look.
> 
> Your baby is close to the age that mine started blowing coat. I suffered and my boys suffered until I finally forked over the money for a Chris Christensen butter comb and brush. It was the best purchase I've ever made for my dogs. The tools really do make a difference.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I'm happy for all suggestions. Now I've looked up these comb and brushes and there seem to be so many? Is there a particular model I should look at? And...where do people get them? Online? thanks for any help you can give me on this one


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Missy said:


> Kipling looks great! and I love the post spa day nap! or is that yoga?


LOL...he's napping right under my desk as I worked in that picture. He looked so comfy!


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## sandydlc (Aug 8, 2009)

Alexa said:


> Marley hates to be brushed, especially underneath his body, so mats form all the time in his armpits and tummy. I tell the groomer to trim the area there really short and shave if necessary and keep the rest longer. It looks perfectly fine and it's easier for everyone involved.


Lucy doesn't hate but doesn't exactly love her nightly brushing. I did discover tonight that using grooming spray before brushing really helped to prevent as much pulling while brushing. She sat through her whole brushing session tonight without trying to get away even once. Finally!!

I agree that a good brushing followed by a comb is the only way to make sure that there are no mats. Lucy gets them in her ear fringe and on the tops of her feet!!

Sandy


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Cute! I want to see pictures of him about 3-5 days after the groom.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

He looks adorable! You are so lucky to have found a good groomer and one that actually listens! I love the nap pose - that is exactly how Abby likes to sleep with her feet propped up on the wall or the back of the sofa......lol She was eight months old when she started blowing coat, too, and at that point I didn't know what it was and wondered "what have I gotten myself into?" But, after that ordeal she has done great and I only comb & brush her about once a week. She is 2 1/2 now.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KSC said:


> Well he's back - happy, no uni-brow, and no more matts - smells like a smoothie. He wasn't cooperative about picture taking today so these are the best I could do. You can see his beard is wet - couldn't get a picture before he had a big drink.
> 
> As advised in a previous thread I asked the groomer to leave the hair to the outside of his eyes longer - what do you all think?


Kipling looks adorable! He almost makes me want to get Kodi cut a little shorter. (but not quite ;-) I did save his pix so that if I DO change my mind, I can give them to the groomer for reference. I'm just concerned that if I cut him shorter, he wouldn't looke soft and teddy bear-ish the way Kipling does, because his coat is so silky, and doesn't puff out. OTOH, I guess it's possible that with less weight it WOULD puff out more.

The other issue is that I KNOW I'll lose the white on his back, and his belton markings would be more obvious. I know that eventually they will grow all the way down anyway, but I still love his all-white puppy fur! I know once it's gone, it's gone for good.

I DEFINITELY need help with Kodi's bangs and the hair on his head. I don't like what I did with him this last time at all... he just looks chopped. Part of the problem is that because Kodi's hair is so silky, it doesn't puff up like Kipling's, especially on his head. So if I JUST trim his bangs, he looks good when he's looking up at you, and the minute he looks down (or even just straight ahead) the hair on the top of his head falls forward and covers his eyes. So I shortened back farther on the top of his head, and now he looks like someone went over him with a hack saw. (I really did TRY to blend it in!!!)

Oh well, the hair on his head seems to grow really fast, so I'll let it grow out again, and then maybe I can find someone who can help me get it looking right!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KSC said:


> Which brush and comb do you use? Can you point me to an image or brand name please?


Ha! I just have ones I got at Petco!<g> I have RA, and need tools with big, soft handles, and they had them there. I'm not thrilled with the pin brush, because it does have the little knobs on the end, which I know you're not supposed to use. But I haven't talked myself into "needing" a $50 CC brush yet either. The onces I bought have soft blue handles. The combs come in regular, flea comb width and even the rolling style, and there are several versions of brushes. Some have a bristle brush on the back of the pin brush and that looked kind of useless for a Hav, so I got the straight pin prush. I think the prices for each piece ranged from $7-10.

BTW, I also wanted to say that I really like the way the groomer blended Kipling's head into his body. I don't like it when they cut their facial hair (and especially ears!!!) severely, but I also don't like the look where the facial hair is left completely alone, and it looks like the head and the body belong to two different dogs.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Karen it's amazing how much their hair texture factors into the grooming scenario - just like all of us when we say (in my case for example)...I'd like Farrah hair....all the while sitting there with straight brown no natural wave hair...ya. Not going to happen. 

So you're right in noticing that Kipling's hair on the top of his head has an actual poof factor to it. It's pretty fine actually. When it settles, that hair (which is his white hair) starts to curl like his mother's does. He also has white chest hair - also curly. I'll post a picture in a few days to show you all how he settles into his new do.

The apricot hair on the rest of his body has that puppy poof to it. So it is experience and really really looking at what worked and what didn't with each attempt at grooming.

Do you have a recent picture of Kodi's face? I'd love to have a closer look. 

The only other thing that I'd say works with K's face is I like his beard trimmed a little shorter. I think it makes him look more puppy-ish.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

That is a great cut. He looks so soft and neat. What a cute sleeping pic!!


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I thought the very top of his head hair was very fine! This is why I want to see a post groom picture. 

You will love the break from the daily grooming! I loved this time when Dexter was shorter, it was a break from the 2 - 3 x day brushing. It was nice.............

Dexter actually let me groom him for almost 30-45 minutes last night.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Good eye...yes it's very fine..but will kink in a few days.


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## MyLittleStogie (Oct 22, 2009)

He looks so cute!

Stogie just had his first visit to the groomer last week. His cut didn't turn out quite how I wanted it, but they still did a very good job. And we'll learn as time goes on.

He's now sporting a modified kennel cut. He looks like he is wearing bell bottoms. I'll try to post a picture later.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Can't wait to see your pictures! I am definitely learning as I go with Kipling. I was horrified at his first cut and my kids were angry with the groomer....thank goodness hair grows!!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Can't wait to see it! I am sure he looks adorable.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

I like his new do. He's such a pretty color, too.


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## MyLittleStogie (Oct 22, 2009)

I took these pictures quickly with my phone, so the quality isn't that great. But you can definitely see his bell bottoms.

I didn't want the back cut so short. It's only about half an inch. Next time he goes in, I will get them to just tidy the back and cut the legs a little shorter.

What do you guys think?


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

He is to die for cute! If you want body and legs more in synch then it makes sense to ask them to leave him shaggy in the body and trim the legs. I find it's a bit counter intuitive to a groomer at first when I ask for this so I've said - less is more with me...I'd rather he be too long than too short. This seems to help them get over this issue a bit.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Darling!!! So cute. Thanks for sending the pictures.


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## MyLittleStogie (Oct 22, 2009)

I definitely agree - the less is more approach is probably the way to go from now on.

I should post more pics of him, since I know how much everyone loves pictures.
I have a couple good ones for the body language thread and I was thinking of doing the January photo challenge, but I just need the time to sit down and get the images together.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Oh yes..post away. We love those furry little faces


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Looking forward to those post groom pictures. Hint......Hint....


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

I know I know...lol..I've been charging my camera battery - Mr. Kipling is not being terribly cooperative but here are the two I managed to get (several morsels of cheese later...). You can see his natural kink is emerging on his head - is this what you expected to see?


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Oh, he's darling! He looks puppy-ish and still Hav-ish!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Aw..thank you Sheri...the second one really shows his perky little personality - he's totally anticipating his cheese in that picture.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Very pretty! 

I was looking for the little spikey hairs up top. Very nice groom! Hang tight to your groomer, they did a great job!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Thank you! Yes I will. The best part is that he looked very relaxed when I came for him. He seemed to feel very comfortable with them.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Kipling is now one week post groomer and he's gone back to being very shaggy. We like him this way but I know for many they'd likely say he hardly looks groomed....I'm ok with it though - was most worried about his matts which are resolved. Have now ordered the CC brush and buttercomb. Here he is!


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## Mojo's Mom (Jun 6, 2009)

Yay! Back to normal, after that excellent grooming. He looks just right!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Mojo's Mom said:


> Yay! Back to normal, after that excellent grooming. He looks just right!


Thank you!


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I just love that shaggy look! So.....When did the groomer say to come back? Just curious?


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## psvzum (Jun 11, 2009)

He looks so beautiful! I love how they groomed him : )


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

HavaneseSoon said:


> I just love that shaggy look! So.....When did the groomer say to come back? Just curious?


They didn't say but I suspect I'll take him at least every 6 weeks. They will deal with matts between visits - they just said bring him in and they'll take care of it which is good. And they will also trim toenails if needed just on a drop in basis.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Kipling looks darling. Looks like you have found a really good groomer.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks again everyone - I do have a different question - now that you've seen his grooming pictures, would you say he has a cottony or silky coat? I've never been quite clear on this distinction?

After he blows coat, does the texture change? He's just such a puffball right now and we love it!


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## Perugina (May 28, 2008)

Looks a lot like Sophie's coat, cottony...and yes they do matt more easily. Sophie was featured in a dematting video produced by my groomers' pet grooming school. The dvd is part of a set they sell to students.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

So if once a cottony coat always that coat?


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## susieg (Aug 28, 2009)

Kipling looks great in all the pics! I especially love the way he looks in the shaggy, week-after pic! Lola has that same kinky part on the top of her head.

I too get confused by the different descriptions of coat types. I was thinking of cottony as soft and wispy [more like cotton candy or a cloud], but really I think everyone means thicker and fluffier [like a cotton ball]. Lola's coat is pretty fine and silky. It lays flatter and isn't as fluffy as some havs like Kipling. Seems like her coat is similar to how Karen described Kodi's coat earlier in this thread.

Lola is 8 months and I had been noticing a lot of hair coming out in the brush/comb so was convinced she was starting to blow her coat. But I finally bought the CC wood pin brush and #5 comb and now I don't notice as much hair coming out. Hope I wasn't pulling out too much hair with that cheap-o comb/brush. I had no idea there would be such a difference, they're worth every penny!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Good to know on the tools as I just took a deep breath and ordered the brush and comb too!


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