# Vet rant. Wants to give vaccinations annually



## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Took Kojo in for Heartworm test and prevention injection. Vet said he needed vaccinations and asked which ones. He said Rabies and told him Kojo's rabies good for two years. He said,"he needs booster and said NO VACCINATIONS. Then he says he needs Bordatella. Nope. During covid, Kojo isolating with me and sees no other dogs. I still walked out with $336 vet bill. Did urinalysis, ultrasound of kidneys, heart worm test, heart worm injection and flea/tick prevention. Do you give SIMPARICA? $129 for six monthly pills. I know there are cheaper flea/tick nonRx meds out there. What do you use? I used to use K9 Advantix II on my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel but vet said Kojo's cottony undercoat too thick for topical. Can' imagine what bill would have been if he gave all the vaccinations he wanted to give.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Well, honestly I don’t make my vet decisions based on cost, but I’d want to know why my dog needed either a urinalysis or an ultrasound of his kidneys. Neither of those sound like normal, preventaive medicine tests. None of my dogs, including 11 1/2 year old Kodi have ever had either one.

I use Advantix II for ticks (fleas are really not a problem for us) and I normally only need to use two doses in a season. I don’t believe that you can’t get them onto the skin of ANY dog, no matter HOW dense their coat is, if you apply them correctly. I do not believe in feed-though flea and tick preventives for a number of reasons.

I only use one heartworm med, and that is Interceptor. I use it every 6 weeks, during the part of the year mosquitos are active in my area. Heatworm needs to be handled differently depending on the part of the country you live in.

Again, I can’t understand the comment on the cost of added vaccines. It costs me more to titer than it woukd to jab my dogs with vaccines more often. I choose to titer because it is safer for my dogs.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Kojo was having symptoms of possible urinary tract infection having to pee every hour all night. So vet did urinalysis to check that out. But he did not tell me he was going to do ultrasound of kidney and I don't think Kojo needed that. I really hate it when vets decide to do things without asking me first and then surprise bill. Not happy with this vet so will be going back to vet I used with my previous dog. I don't believe in overvaccinating pets. Had one vet try to tell me that no vaccinations lasted more than a year. Vet at UC-Davis published that he believes after all puppy shots, immunity is lifetime. He checks titers of his dogs and all of them showed stable titers up to age 14 years. Most vets depend on vaccinations to support their business so will scare you into vaccinating unnecessarily. One vet told me there was no titer test. That is when I know I need a new vet. I want a vet that will discuss my pets health and allow me to make educated decision about the care of my pet.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

Shadow got his rabies at 6 months, then 1 year later, got a 3 year rabies shot. I use Sentinel for heartworm/flea control. I've used it for over 30 years. It's about $100/year but does not do anything for ticks. His first year, we had a big tick problem here so I used a pill for 3 months that year. 
That doesn't sound too bad pricewise if it included the $130 for the meds. I've never done the injections. I agree that I would want an explanation before they do stuff. Was this vet part of a chain? Vets at chains seem to like to upsell and insist on $service$.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

LUVmyHava said:


> Took Kojo in for Heartworm test and prevention injection. Vet said he needed vaccinations and asked which ones. He said Rabies and told him Kojo's rabies good for two years. He said,"he needs booster and said NO VACCINATIONS. Then he says he needs Bordatella. Nope. During covid, Kojo isolating with me and sees no other dogs. I still walked out with $336 vet bill. Did urinalysis, ultrasound of kidneys, heart worm test, heart worm injection and flea/tick prevention. Do you give SIMPARICA? $129 for six monthly pills. I know there are cheaper flea/tick nonRx meds out there. What do you use? I used to use K9 Advantix II on my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel but vet said Kojo's cottony undercoat too thick for topical. Can' imagine what bill would have been if he gave all the vaccinations he wanted to give.


Many vets around here still do annual vaccines. I would just find another vet who will do titers for you.

I was wondering if Kojo has had the Proheart shot previously? Any drug that remains in my dog's system for a year sounds very scary to me. However, I see you are from the "Deep South" so I realize the risk is high. I was just wondering if Proheart is what the vets recommend in your area? Where I live risk of heartworm is also high. A friend of mine has a dog with heartworms who is being treated by a supposedly very good vet at the University of Missouri vet school. Per her vet, the heartworms here have become more and more resistant to the heartworm preventatives and she is seeing many dogs with heartworm that are on preventatives. The only heartworm preventative she recommends is Advantage Multi. Note that many of the dogs she treats are farm dogs. They are out 24x7 so the risk is much higher than a house dog who goes outside a couple hours per day.

I think fleas can be easily prevented by frequent vacuuming and washing of dog bedding, along with basic grooming. As far as ticks, I just do frequent tick checks. The topicals do not kill them fast enough and the pills are way too scary for me. I use a non toxic repellent on them to keep ticks, fleas and mosquitoes from biting them in the first place vs. letting the insects bite them and then waiting for the drugs to kill them. My understanding of tick borne diseases is that most dogs never show symptoms, even if they get a puffed up diseased tick on them. In other words, even if they test positive for Lyme, most dogs will never get Lyme disease. The biggest threat is heartworm IMO. Fleas and ticks are not that big of a threat...more of a nuisance than anything.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

No, this vet is independent. The one who saw Kojo yesterday hadn't seen him before. Kojo usually sees a female vet there. It's a 30-minute drive to get there. I have a long experience with a much closer vet and will transfer his care there. He gets Rabies vaccination every two years because it is state law even though vaccine good for 3 years. 

I will switch back to K9 Advantix II after done with Simparica. We have very bad mosquito, flea and tick problems here in deep south so I use prevention for heartworm and flea/tick year-round. We get big deer ticks here. A city truck sprays residential streets once a week around sundown for mosquito control from mid-spring through mid-fall. We are encouraged to avoid any water on our property like bird baths or puddles where mosquitoes lay eggs. But even I occasionally get mosquito bites when outdoors. 

Vet instructed me yesterday to not let Kojo out of his crate at 3AM when he wants to go outside. He thinks Kojo is playing me. So last night, I ignored his whining to get out and poor guy peed all over his crate bed. So even though he doesn't have UTI, he does need to pee at 3 AM. I will take him to his ex-pen and allow him to use pee pad instead of letting him go in backyard during the night. I limit his water after 8PM but he doesn't seem to be able make it through the night without pee break.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

*Fleas, Ticks and Mosquitoes.*



mudpuppymama said:


> Many vets around here still do annual vaccines. I would just find another vet who will do titers for you.
> 
> I was wondering if Kojo has had the Proheart shot previously?
> 
> I think fleas can be easily prevented by frequent vacuuming and washing of dog bedding, along with basic grooming. Fleas and ticks are not that big of a threat...more of a nuisance than anything.


Kojo gets Proheart every six months (not an annual shot). Fleas are very bad with my lawn full of fleas that bite me while in yard. K9 Advantix II REPELS fleas, ticks and mosquitoes. The problem with fleas is that dogs get intestinal worms from flea bites even if dogs don't get infestation with eggs in fur. So I prefer to prevent fleas bites rather than have him treated for worms. Ticks on dogs can give Lyme disease to humans. We have herds of wild deer in the city in forested areas and deer ticks have tested positive for Lyme disease by wildlife officials. So prevention is better than treating disease from these pests.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

LUVmyHava said:


> No, this vet is independent. The one who saw Kojo yesterday hadn't seen him before. Kojo usually sees a female vet there. It's a 30-minute drive to get there. I have a long experience with a much closer vet and will transfer his care there. He gets Rabies vaccination every two years because it is state law even though vaccine good for 3 years.
> 
> I will switch back to K9 Advantix II after done with Simparica. We have very bad mosquito, flea and tick problems here in deep south so I use prevention for heartworm and flea/tick year-round. We get big deer ticks here. A city truck sprays residential streets once a week around sundown for mosquito control from mid-spring through mid-fall. We are encouraged to avoid any water on our property like bird baths or puddles where mosquitoes lay eggs. But even I occasionally get mosquito bites when outdoors.
> 
> Vet instructed me yesterday to not let Kojo out of his crate at 3AM when he wants to go outside. He thinks Kojo is playing me. So last night, I ignored his whining to get out and poor guy peed all over his crate bed. So even though he doesn't have UTI, he does need to pee at 3 AM. I will take him to his ex-pen and allow him to use pee pad instead of letting him go in backyard during the night. I limit his water after 8PM but he doesn't seem to be able make it through the night without pee break.


Any vet that says to ignore a dog that wants to get out of its crate at 3 am is NOT a vet I would trust with my dog. That is ridiculous! Kojo is so loaded up with drugs his kidneys are probably working very hard to get them out of his system. You would think the vet would know this. I really feel for Kojo and hope his system can deal with the toxic overload he is under.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

How old is Kojo? Because we do vaccinations every three years here, core ones. However the one year boosters are, IMO necessary. This is just like a human baby, as far as science goes. It's why you get the three jabs of Parvo till 16 wks. Not because the vaccines are not effective. It's because maternal antibodies are at odds with puppy's own immune system. I am cautious with over vaccinating, but I do think there is a potential for a vaccine to become ineffective at some point during that first year. I would be okay with tittering after that, though. And I personally prefer to do rabies after 6 months.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

krandall said:


> Well, honestly I don't make my vet decisions based on cost, but I'd want to know why my dog needed either a urinalysis or an ultrasound of his kidneys. Neither of those sound like normal, preventaive medicine tests. None of my dogs, including 11 1/2 year old Kodi have ever had either one.
> 
> I use Advantix II for ticks (fleas are really not a problem for us) and I normally only need to use two doses in a season. I don't believe that you can't get them onto the skin of ANY dog, no matter HOW dense their coat is, if you apply them correctly. I do not believe in feed-though flea and tick preventives for a number of reasons.
> 
> ...


I like interceptor. We do it 6 months out of the year. The flea/ tick stuff we use you apply to the neck and I do only 2-3 doses a year, too. I can't remember what the brand is on that one.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

I mean, with vaccines, people have strong opinions. I just wanted to point out that ours does boosters every three years except for the 12 month ones.


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## CaptainHavanese (Apr 24, 2020)

Wow almost $350 just to visit the vet for heartworm.  Good on you for not letting them push on the spot vaccinations on your pup - if he were really due for them, I believe they should have let you know far prior in advance than on the spot like that. I'm just learning now about titer testing, I'll definitely have that done with my hava who has vacinosis.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Woods said:


> I mean, with vaccines, people have strong opinions. I just wanted to point out that ours does boosters every three years except for the 12 month ones.


Just curious if your vet does titers or just automatically vaccinates every 3 years.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

mudpuppymama said:


> Just curious if your vet does titers or just automatically vaccinates every 3 years.


yes. but not for rabies, which is required by law. but he still prefers to do the entire puppy series--which includes the 1 yr. Also, after that he wants to do titers yearly, not every three. They actually do the tests themselves at this clinic where all bloodwork, etc is done. So, I am guessing other vets in this small area would send them there too.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

generally, I've never met a vet so laid back. He really only believes in the core vaccines, said the heart worm was unknown if it was. really needed here, and even the flea and tick. Problem is we have MASSIVE mosquitoes here in my neighborhood which isn't representative of the whole area. So, we compromise and do the pills in the summer months. Also, he's under the impression that my dogs are indoors all the time, I think. Because he said something like, don't worry about inside dogs. Well, he's right in that they are always supervised and not in the back yard alone. But we hike with them, take them by the river, etc. They aren't sitting on our laps 24/7 LOL

He scared me so much with Parvo though. We've had outbreaks here where puppies got it in their own backyards. It can live in soil for years. Now, I do let them in the yard. But I don't let puppies roam in public parks, etc and I would never skip those shots. It is unforgiving and not some uncommon thing


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I agree that the cost shouldn’t be a factor in deciding about vaccinations or not, but I definitely see how a high bill adds insult to injury when it’s for treatment you didn’t discuss and after having to fight the vet on vaccinations. 

As much as it’s important to avoid chemicals when possible, in some climates I think the risk of not using them outweighs the risks of the chemicals, and it sounds like you live in one of those places. Maybe there are other Havanese or small dog owners in your region with the same philosophies that could tell you how they balance the need for the treatment with minimal chemical exposure, and maybe they would be a good referral source for a new vet. Assuming there was a reason you switched in the first place!


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Melissa Woods said:


> How old is Kojo?... And I personally prefer to do rabies after 6 months.


Kojo is 18 months old (born Feb 8, 2019). Breeder did DAPP 1st series before I got him. Vet did DAPP again at 12 weeks and 16 weeks. He received two-year Rabies at 16 weeks which was June 2019 (14 months ago). Vet did not suggest boosters on DAPP. Just Rabies and Bordatella. I declined Rabies as it is good for two years and Bordatella because Kojo has no contact with other dogs since Covid-19 began.

You all may not make decisions about pet care based on cost. But I am on Social Security and costs must be considered in decisions about my own care as well as Kojo's. I do the best I can for us both but care with costs that have minimal benefit must be carefully considered.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Here is Canine Journal recommended vaccination schedule. DAPP is booster every 3 years, not annually. Rabies depends on local laws. Since my state requires every 2 years, he will get 3-year booster every two years.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

LUVmyHava said:


> Melissa Woods said:
> 
> 
> > How old is Kojo?... And I personally prefer to do rabies after 6 months.
> ...


I actually DO understand this. There have been several times where emergency vets suggested crazy expensive treatments that didn't make sense. One example is when we brought Oliver in at night with kennel cough. He was coughing up stuff and it freaked me out. So my husband gets there and they say, well it's kennel cough. Seems mild but we can either prescribe cough meds and an antibiotic OR just in case do a 400 dollar x-ray. If he was really sick I'd have done it. They even said it was mild because he'd stopped coughing by the time DH got there. But incidentally my vet would do an X-ray for much less than that, and he would be open in 7 hours. Oliver wasn't so ill we couldn't wait and see. And after one cough suppressant he slept through the night. He was better in a couple of days. So yeah, vets occasionally recommend unnecessary treatments "just in case" when it's not reasonable.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I try to spend money wisely. Especially now that my income will be 50% less this year and probably worse in the coming years. I've had several vets suggest some crazy things that would be not just expensive but crazy. Like doing patella surgery on my 16 yr old Bichon. The recovery would have killed his spirit. He lived for 2 more happy years without it.

I wish I could find a sensible vet that would just explain the options and cost. It is hard to find someone who is on the same page as I am. So many vets around here love to vaccinate, prescribe certain meds(that I don't want my dog to have like Trifexis.) It;s all about the money.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LUVmyHava said:


> Kojo was having symptoms of possible urinary tract infection having to pee every hour all night. So vet did urinalysis to check that out. But he did not tell me he was going to do ultrasound of kidney and I don't think Kojo needed that. I really hate it when vets decide to do things without asking me first and then surprise bill. Not happy with this vet so will be going back to vet I used with my previous dog. I don't believe in overvaccinating pets. Had one vet try to tell me that no vaccinations lasted more than a year. Vet at UC-Davis published that he believes after all puppy shots, immunity is lifetime. He checks titers of his dogs and all of them showed stable titers up to age 14 years. Most vets depend on vaccinations to support their business so will scare you into vaccinating unnecessarily. One vet told me there was no titer test. That is when I know I need a new vet. I want a vet that will discuss my pets health and allow me to make educated decision about the care of my pet.


I don't disagree with that at all. I definitely want to be informed about treatment options and be able to mke my own decisions. It was your comments on the costs being the driver of decision making that surprised me. Maybe I misunderstood your post.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

LUVmyHava said:


> Kojo gets Proheart every six months (not an annual shot). Fleas are very bad with my lawn full of fleas that bite me while in yard. K9 Advantix II REPELS fleas, ticks and mosquitoes. The problem with fleas is that dogs get intestinal worms from flea bites even if dogs don't get infestation with eggs in fur. So I prefer to prevent fleas bites rather than have him treated for worms. Ticks on dogs can give Lyme disease to humans. We have herds of wild deer in the city in forested areas and deer ticks have tested positive for Lyme disease by wildlife officials. So prevention is better than treating disease from these pests.


If fleas are that bad in your yard, you could treat your yard. There are some non toxic options. If is usually more effective to treat the environment vs your dog because the environment is where most of the fleas and eggs are. In other words, focus on reducing the next generation. Poor Kojo is going to get bit by all these fleas whether he is on preventatives or not.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

mudpuppymama said:


> If fleas are that bad in your yard, you could treat your yard. There are some non toxic options. If is usually more effective to treat the environment vs your dog because the environment is where most of the fleas and eggs are. In other words, focus on reducing the next generation. Poor Kojo is going to get bit by all these fleas whether he is on preventatives or not.


Would love to know what I could put on my lawn. Everything I have looked at has "toxic to pets" warning. You know the name of a product?


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

krandall said:


> I don't disagree with that at all. I definitely want to be informed about treatment options and be able to mke my own decisions. It was your comments on the costs being the driver of decision making that surprised me. Maybe I misunderstood your post.


Costs must be factored in for both my healthcare and my dog's. I am on Social Security and have fairly high Healthcare costs myself. So it is always a cost versus benefit analysis. High cost for minimal benefit doesn't make sense for my financial situation.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

LUVmyHava said:


> Would love to know what I could put on my lawn. Everything I have looked at has "toxic to pets" warning. You know the name of a product?


https://www.wondercide.com/products...ncentrate-kills-repels-100s-of-pests-ecotreat


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Kojo is really sick today with diarrhea, lethargy, fever and won't eat anything. Proheart and Simpatica really hit him hard. Really glad I didn't agree to other vaccinations.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

mudpuppymama said:


> https://www.wondercide.com/products...ncentrate-kills-repels-100s-of-pests-ecotreat


Thanks. Looks like one store here has it.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

LUVmyHava said:


> Thanks. Looks like one store here has it.


Another idea to avoid chemicals is to use a flea comb. I can get one through Mia's hair fairly easily if I keep her in a short puppy cut. A flea comb is an effective and very underrated tool. One time I had a cat that had fleas pretty bad and that comb was super effective.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

LUVmyHava said:


> You all may not make decisions about pet care based on cost. But I am on Social Security and costs must be considered in decisions about my own care as well as Kojo's. I do the best I can for us both but care with costs that have minimal benefit must be carefully considered.


Absolutely, and Melissa's example is great.

I meant that with regard to vaccines, I think how often to vaccinate and whether to titer should be based on what the owner believes is best for the dog. Vaccinations are already part of the cost of owning a dog, and titers are even more expensive.

I'm thankful for what we have, that we have income at all right now, but budget is definitely a consideration. It wasn't that long ago that money was especially tight and the bill was the first thing that popped into my head with regard to any kind of doctor visit. It's hard not to let that guide decision making. But I have to trust it will work itself out. It's even harder in some ways with vets because offices can sometimes be more commercial. I hope you can find a vet that you trust in the midst of everything right now!

I've been really lucky with our vet. Not so lucky with doctor's offices, though most have been good. I once had a terrible experience with an eye center that was part of a chain. Someone called me about it and offered to have us seen at a different office for free, I think because they were getting a lot of complaints about the doctor. Then they billed me for the visit! I called and spoke to someone and they reversed the bill, but I decided to completely switch offices. Two months later, after I had already gone to a new eye doctor (and paid out of pocket since I'd already been seen twice that year) and ordered new contacts online and covered by insurance, the old office sent me contacts I didn't order in the mail and billed me for them. Sometimes it's completely about the money!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Like the vets that sell pet food...


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

I learned A LONG TIME AGO ... VETERINARIAN'S do not NOT DOG GROOMERS. $70 bucks for trimming the dogs head and without permission!! That's a Vet looking at anything to make money. Best to stay away.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

mudpuppymama said:


> If fleas are that bad in your yard, you could treat your yard. There are some non toxic options. If is usually more effective to treat the environment vs your dog because the environment is where most of the fleas and eggs are. In other words, focus on reducing the next generation. Poor Kojo is going to get bit by all these fleas whether he is on preventatives or not.


You pretty much HAVE to treat the yard. There are non-toxic options, and usually most effective if applied by a professional. Thing is, one flea gets on him or even you, and your house is infested. Seriously, you've gotta. treat your yard.


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## Boomer's mom (Apr 18, 2020)

*Thanks Karen --- makes me feel better about my choice*

* I only use one heartworm med, and that is Interceptor. I use it every 6 weeks, during the part of the year mosquitos are active in my area. Heatworm needs to be handled differently depending on the part of the country you live in.*

Karen, I'm glad to know what you use. I have selected Interceptor for my 19 week old even though my vet wanted me to use Heartgard. We liked that Interceptor was dosed for the proper weight of my 8 lb pup. Also, I plan to give every 45 days so I was happy to see that you do the same! It's hard to determine the best course of action when the vet's opinion is based on conventional theories. Unfortunately, I will have to give the heartworm year round since I'm in FL during the winter.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Kojo has been sick with diarrhea and vomiting, fever, refuses to eat and lethargy for two days since receiving Proheart 6 injection and dose of Simpatica. Both of those can cause these side effects. I won't allow any future injections of Proheart 6 or 12. The guidelines are specific that vets should not administer any vaccines when injecting Proheart. OMG. Vet wanted to administer Rabies and Bordatella at the same time as Proheart. Kojo could be a lot sicker or even died. FDA says owners must give informed consent after being told all the risks. He didn't tell me a thing, And vets must be approved by manufacturer (received proper instruction) to administer. The dose costs about $42 but vet charged $159. No wonder vet didn't even suggest any other heartworm preventive. My opinion of vets have really changed to suspicion and distrust.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I'm sorry that Kojo is still not well. I didnt like the sounds of the Pro-Heart when a friend told me about it. My vet has not suggested it(yet), probably because I insist on using Sentinel, which is heartworm and flea control in a monthly pill. I can remember to give a pill! I mark it on my calendar! I always plan for a week in between any meds and any vaccination. Crazy, I guess.
I refused the Bordatella when he had to go in March for his heartworm test since Shadow was getting another vaccination. Vet was not happy.
I am positive that he will not be boarded or in close contact with other than his couple pals in the hood. But if I decide he needs it, he can go in and get it from the vet tech without paying for an office visit. 
I hope Kojo is back to his usual self very soon.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

LUVmyHava said:


> Kojo has been sick with diarrhea and vomiting, fever, refuses to eat and lethargy for two days since receiving Proheart 6 injection and dose of Simpatica. Both of those can cause these side effects. I won't allow any future injections of Proheart 6 or 12. The guidelines are specific that vets should not administer any vaccines when injecting Proheart. OMG. Vet wanted to administer Rabies and Bordatella at the same time as Proheart. Kojo could be a lot sicker or even died. FDA says owners must give informed consent after being told all the risks. He didn't tell me a thing, And vets must be approved by manufacturer (received proper instruction) to administer. The dose costs about $42 but vet charged $159. No wonder vet didn't even suggest any other heartworm preventive. My opinion of vets have really changed to suspicion and distrust.


I am sorry Kojo is suffering. Please make sure he does not get dehydrated. Small dogs can get dehydrated quickly when they are vomiting and have diarrhea. The vet may need to give him subcutaneous fluids.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Kojo still having diarrhea 5 days after Proheart 6 injection. But he is eating and not vomiting. Gave him part of IMODIUM AD Gelcap. Research on web said one 2mg Imodium AD could be given 3 times a day for dog 25-50 pounds. Gelcap has 2mg so squeezed half of gel unto a little bit of cooked ground turkey. That was 3 hours ago and is he still having diarrhea every 30 minutes. I am watching his fluid intake closely. He enjoyed a bone broth ice cube and is drinking water. The vets here do not work on weekends. We have an emergency animal hospital that takes care of all off hour cases for all vets. If not better soon, will take him there.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Kojo at Animal Hospital today. Dehydration from vomiting and diarrhea. Gastroenteritis from Simpatica with blood in vomit and stool. His labs were OK so getting IV fluids with antiemetic and a drug that coats stomach and intestines and antibiotic. So not using any oral flea/tick preventive. Will use topical in future.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Ugh. Hope he feels better soon!


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

Poor Kojo! He's been through alot. Hopefully, he's feeling better. I wonder how they knew it was the flea/tick med and not the ProHeart shot? What are you going to do now? I'd be calling the vet to tell them what happened and calling the manufacturer of the med. You should at least get a refund for it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Boomer's mom said:


> * I only use one heartworm med, and that is Interceptor. I use it every 6 weeks, during the part of the year mosquitos are active in my area. Heatworm needs to be handled differently depending on the part of the country you live in.*
> 
> Karen, I'm glad to know what you use. I have selected Interceptor for my 19 week old even though my vet wanted me to use Heartgard. We liked that Interceptor was dosed for the proper weight of my 8 lb pup. Also, I plan to give every 45 days so I was happy to see that you do the same! It's hard to determine the best course of action when the vet's opinion is based on conventional theories. Unfortunately, I will have to give the heartworm year round since I'm in FL during the winter.


The only thing is you do six week dosing with Interceptor is that there is NO ROOM FOR ERROR. You need to write it on the calendar and REMEMBER. The reason they suggest monthly dosing is that so many people DO forget, and that gives some sproo. For "slippage". If you do the 6 week dosing, you don't have that gace oeriod, so you HAVE to give it on schedule.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Poor boy, and poor you! What an experience!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

One issue with pills is that the dog can vomit them up. Also, I would think if administering flea and heartworm pills, it is best to administer them as far apart as possible. Not just because of toxicity but in case of vomiting up the pills. My yorkie used to vomit up his heartworm pill fairly often. And if it did stay down, we were up at 3 am with loose stool.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

mudpuppymama said:


> One issue with pills is that the dog can vomit them up. Also, I would think if administering flea and heartworm pills, it is best to administer them as far apart as possible. Not just because of toxicity but in case of vomiting up the pills. My yorkie used to vomit up his heartworm pill fairly often. And if it did stay down, we were up at 3 am with loose stool.


4 of my Bichons had this issue with Heartguard. It's a different heartworm med in Sentinel. Shadow apparently had this problem with Heartguard too, but not with Sentinel.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

I use NexGard and HeartGard during flea and tick season. Never had an issue with the meds.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Mikki said:


> I use NexGard and HeartGard during flea and tick season. Never had an issue with the meds.


All dogs are different. I would think it is best to give them on separate days so if one or the other causes issues you would know which one caused it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> All dogs are different. I would think it is best to give them on separate days so if one or the other causes issues you would know which one caused it.


Yes, I think this is ALWAYS best practice, even if you have been using the same products with no problem for years. You never know when an animal WILL react negatively to a product, and it is so much easier to track down if they are given separately.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*flea/ tick and heart worm*



mudpuppymama said:


> All dogs are different. I would think it is best to give them on separate days so if one or the other causes issues you would know which one caused it.


I do advantix II and heartguard - and yes, even though one is a chew and the other the stuff you put on their skin I do them about 2 weeks apart (As Karen said - if there is a reaction, easier to figure out what caused it that way). No problems with either - but he doesn't really get the flea/ tick every month because it's not a huge issue here...


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Tere said:


> Poor Kojo! He's been through alot. Hopefully, he's feeling better. I wonder how they knew it was the flea/tick med and not the ProHeart shot? What are you going to do now? I'd be calling the vet to tell them what happened and calling the manufacturer of the med. You should at least get a refund for it.


It was Simpatica pill because very rare for injected medication to cause stomach ulcer. Simpatica and Proheart 6 are made by the same company, Zoetis. I wrote Zoetis and they wanted report from vet. The
Vet did give me a partial refund on the 5 unused Simpatica. The Animal ER always faxes records to vet. Vet said he would be reporting to Zoetis. I will be using K9 Advantix II topical for flea, tick, mosquito. Proheart 6 may have been just fine but I won't choose that again.  Simpatica, Proheart, Interceptor and BRAVECTO(sp) all have the same potential side effects. Vomiting, diarrhea, neurological problems. Wish we didn't have to give poison to our pets.

Kojo had Simpatica and Proheart 6 once before with no problems. Maybe shouldn't be given on empty stomach but I was given no instructions to give with food. Previous time I gave Kojo Cerenia before going to vets because carsickness and may have fed him when I got home before giving Simpatica.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

I was so happy to see big, firm poop a couple days ago. He is back to normal self but has shaved front legs from IVs.


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