# Shama Agility IV



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Below are links to four videos from July 31 (after my 17-day trip to France during which Shama hadn't practiced at all) and two videos from August 7. These videos were taken during my fourth eight-week agility class. We will be repeating this class in the fall because we haven't mastered the weaves. I'm looking forward to working with her in the fall when it won't be so hot in the training facility. I think we still have great potential. We need to work on our start-line stay and our weaves. (I'm hoping the orthopedic specialist that we're seeing on Wednesday will approve Shama's continued participation in agility. She has a loose patella, and we just want to make sure we're not putting her at serious risk by running agility. I'll let you know what happens.)

In the first video, you can see Shama LEAP from the top of the teeter totter. The man spotting for me hadn't done what I'd imagined he'd do. (I'd thought he'd just make sure it didn't drop too quickly, but he held it up, and Shama was like, "What's up with this DELAY? Let's go!")

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6h29loafsbnx5j/2017 07 31 1 scary jump from teeter.MTS?dl=0

In the second video, you'll see what I wanted him to do with the teeter. I had also been concerned about her getting flipped off the end of it after going over.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/volu5wd4wxjkl6x/2017 07 31 2 teeter success.MTS?dl=0

In the the third video, you'll see a pretty good run.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ta85os98nlyg6nl/2017 07 31 3 good run 1.MTS?dl=0

In the fourth video, you'll see me mess up the teeter because I lost eye contact with Shama.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5x76896dyuh07wd/2017 07 31 4 good run 2.MTS?dl=0

In the fifth video, you'll see us struggle a bit with the weave poles.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ml83jrs0wd3edm7/2017 08 07 Weave Pole Difficulties.MTS?dl=0

In the sixth video, you'l see us do better with the weave poles.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j12xrf4g5wuuzod/2017 08 07 Weave Pole Success.MTS?dl=0

Below are links to my first three Shama Agility threads:

http://www.havaneseforum.com/7-training-tips-advice/115858-video-intro-agility.html

http://www.havaneseforum.com/7-training-tips-advice/119090-shama-agility-ii.html

http://www.havaneseforum.com/7-training-tips-advice/121889-shama-agility-iii.html


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

You guys are doing great!!!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

It is so much fun watching these videos! Thank you!


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Doggone it I can't get into the page.  I'll bet Shama is adorable!


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

OH I tried again and can see them now! OMGOSH you are an amazing team she looks so happy and is sooo so cute! You guys are going to do well! Thanks for sharing these loved seeing you both in action Shama has the best smile.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Oh I am so excited now! Shama takes to that like a duck to water. Like you, I am more worried that I'll not be as quick, but I guess the main thing is to have fun. Agility looks like it was MADE for Havanese. It was instructive being able to compare the beginning classes with your 8th class. Shama looks ready for the pros! I'm counting the days till Thursday, our first class.


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Tux's Mom said:


> Oh I am so excited now! Shama takes to that like a duck to water. Like you, I am more worried that I'll not be as quick, but I guess the main thing is to have fun. Agility looks like it was MADE for Havanese. It was instructive being able to compare the beginning classes with your 8th class. Shama looks ready for the pros! I'm counting the days till Thursday, our first class.


For handlers that can't always keep up with their dogs, distance work is a fabulous option. It comes with time (Nino STILL isn't sure how he feels about it), but it can be a godsend, especially on fast portions of the course. As long as your dog can move, you can be a successful agility team


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

She is looking fabulous!! You can tell things are really starting to click for her. Can't wait until you guys are showing alongside us 

One tip. In agility, I try to never reward out of my hand. I want Nino focused on my signals, but not looking to me for rewards every time he completes an obstacle. Especially in weaves, I use treats I can toss that will bounce and roll. It helps with drive and independence (you just have to be careful the dog doesn't start searching the floor for treats whenever  ).


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

I struggle between wanting my treats to be tiny for my tiny dog (and even big dogs only need a tiny treat for motivation) and needing the treats that I toss to be VISIBLE to Shama. What do you all recommend for treats that will bounce and roll and be VISIBLE while at the same time not be too filling for a tiny stomach?


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

I think it may have a lot to do with the color of the flooring. I have discovered that if the tiny treat blends with the floor, Tux will walk right over it.


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

For tossable treats, I use Nature's Variety raw mixers. They are light colored and big enough to be visible but not super filling.


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## Barbara Levy (Apr 22, 2016)

Shama is so cute. You are both doing great. We are still working toward Canine Good Citizen. We would be making more progress if I practiced more with him. Bad mama.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

That's why I try to fill my week with classes, Barbara. Because we so rarely practice in between! The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I'm on my way . . .


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Here are links to videos from our fifth and final private lesson at the farm. In the second video, I'm focusing on body movement and am trying not to issue vocal commands (just as an exercise, not as a permanent strategy).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/92jhlnrxpmtipmo/2017 08 22 Outdoor Run 1.MTS?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ey4vg3yh70tu1xq/2017 08 22 Outdoor Run 2.MTS?dl=0


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KarMar said:


> For handlers that can't always keep up with their dogs, distance work is a fabulous option. It comes with time (Nino STILL isn't sure how he feels about it), but it can be a godsend, especially on fast portions of the course. As long as your dog can move, you can be a successful agility team


Right! Havanese aren't naturals at distance work, but they definitely can learn! If I say, "Out, jump!" (or tunnel or whatever) to Kodi, he immediately veers away from me, looking for the obstacle. It also comes with learning the NAMES of the obstacles. Until they know those, there is no way for them to know which one to take when you send to a side-by side tunnel entrance and dog walk. (VERY COMMON)

Panda is like Nino and Shama, still not at a stage where distance work is very reliable. But from an agility perspective, they are all babies! 

We have a local agility ladies who is in her 70's, and ALWAYS has ]knee and wrist braces on. Watching her run her dogs (granted, they are Border Collies, and specifically bred for distance work) is poetry. Sh leaves the dog on the start line and walks to the middle of the arena. She can direct the entire run without ever moving faster than a walk... even with multiple layered obstacles. (meaning there are other obstacles between her and the one the dog needs to take) She never even raises her voice. She AND her dogs are AMAZING.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KarMar said:


> She is looking fabulous!! You can tell things are really starting to click for her. Can't wait until you guys are showing alongside us
> 
> One tip. In agility, I try to never reward out of my hand. I want Nino focused on my signals, but not looking to me for rewards every time he completes an obstacle. Especially in weaves, I use treats I can toss that will bounce and roll. It helps with drive and independence (you just have to be careful the dog doesn't start searching the floor for treats whenever  ).


That works better on a matted floor than outdoors, though. (I know these videos were indoors, so that's a great place to use thrown treats, but I know Shama also has been working outside) If your dog has a retrieve, you can use a petal ball, that they can snatch and run back to you to get the treats, but Havanese are not usually natural retrievers, and I'm betting Shama doesn't have a retrieve at this point. Throwing treats on grass is ASKING the dog to start sniffing and searching when they can't immediately see where it went.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KarMar said:


> For tossable treats, I use Nature's Variety raw mixers. They are light colored and big enough to be visible but not super filling.


Yes, those are good too. Great nutrition, so, again, you can just count them as part of her food for the day. I forgot about those, because they are (another) thing Kodi can't eat because of the fish oil in them.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> That's why I try to fill my week with classes, Barbara. Because we so rarely practice in between! The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I'm on my way . . .


It's harder with agility stuff (I have to MAKE myself go out to practice weaves with Panda in this hot, sticky weather!) But one way to structure a small amount of training time is to set the timer for 3 minutes before the dog's supper. (you can even use bites of supper as the "treats") Do two different exercises for 90 seconds each. It's amazing what a difference you can make in a behavior with 90 seconds over 5-6 days of a week!!! 

Another time you can structure "train without pain" is during commercial breaks while you are watching TV. Train one exercise for the length of the commercial. Short, frequent training like this is actually MUCH more effective than setting aside an hour, or even half an hour per day. And we can USUALLY find 3 minutes for training SOMETIME during the day!


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Our first day is tomorrow. Tux and I have soooooo much to learn. I picked a two o'clock lesson schedule and am beginning to wonder if that was not so good. It's in-between meals, and around nap time. Have any of you agility owners noticed a time of day where your pup performs better?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

My dogs are up for training any time. But they have also been in training since small puppies, and look at training as GREAT fun!!! He will get used to the schedule... just make it the most fun thing EVER for him. (Which means, don't take it too seriously. YOU have fun too! )


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Tux and I just had our very first agility lesson. After Tux's unfortunate injury from electric clippers at the vet a month or so ago, (they accidentally clipped his pee pee!) he has been shaking out of control whenever we get in a car to go anywhere. He was shaking and whining the entire way to the agility class. I was worried he might be miserable being put through this new endeavor. Long story short, Mr. shaky pants cry baby, turned into Mr. Athlete-that-can't-be-beat! It was nothing short of miraculous. He was one bundle of furry joy leaping and jumping, running through tunnels, running and sitting on a platform with virtually little sign from me, flying through the ring, while ignoring the pit bull at the end of the gym.

My husband was sick today so no pictures. I'm definitely going to try and get some next time. Tux took to this stuff like it was in his genes. He looked like he knew that this was his purpose in life......fly through the air and then watch mom grin from ear to ear. Now if I can only keep up with him...........:laugh2:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

AWESOME!!! I'm SO glad you both enjoyed it!!! Can't wait for pix!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> Another time you can structure "train without pain" is during commercial breaks while you are watching TV. Train one exercise for the length of the commercial.


 You sound like me telling my students to study their French vocabulary during the commercial breaks of their TV programs. The thing is, almost no one sits through commercials anymore! Oh well, we can still find time to train our dogs here and there throughout the day. I usually try to do a few minutes after going outside to potty.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

So glad to hear about Tux's first day! When are ready to post photos (this Thursday?), you should start your own thread so everyone sees them. Tux needs his own headline! Really happy you're giving agility a try.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

We had our second agility class Thurs. but it was impossible to get photos cause hubby couldn't be there. There was one OMG moment, that blew both the trainer and me away. Tux was learning the long dark scary tunnel versus the short happy yellow one. Miraculously he ran through it the first time, so the trainer said next time, take him over a jump after he exits the long dark tunnel. Tux ran in but turned around and ran back out the entrance. As the trainer was talking to me with tips on how to get him to do it correctly, (where to position my body etc.) Tux took it upon himself to go back to the entrance and run through the tunnel and over the jump!!!! The trainer had a deer-in-the-headlights look on her face. We both couldn't believe he just did that on his own. Sometimes that dog just blows my mind. It's downright scary. 

I will try to get someone to take pictures next time.


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

*He did whaaat?*



Tux's Mom said:


> We had our second agility class Thurs. but it was impossible to get photos cause hubby couldn't be there. There was one OMG moment, that blew both the trainer and me away. Tux was learning the long dark scary tunnel versus the short happy yellow one. Miraculously he ran through it the first time, so the trainer said next time, take him over a jump after he exits the long dark tunnel. Tux ran in but turned around and ran back out the entrance. As the trainer was talking to me with tips on how to get him to do it correctly, (where to position my body etc.) Tux took it upon himself to go back to the entrance and run through the tunnel and over the jump!!!! The trainer had a deer-in-the-headlights look on her face. We both couldn't believe he just did that on his own. Sometimes that dog just blows my mind. It's downright scary.
> 
> I will try to get someone to take pictures next time.


I know exactly how you feel.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Karen, what lotus ball do you recommend? Sophie, Shama is wild about the turkey mixers! It took me a while to find them at Petco because they're with raw food, not training treats. I got the sample size of three flavors - beef, turkey, chicken (I think). $2 for one ounce, or $12 for six ounces. I was surprised to not get a better deal on the larger package. Then I noticed $2 and $3 off coupons for the big packages on the backs of the little packages! Anyway, she eagerly practices her weaves in order to get these turkey treats! Thanks so much for the tip! So happy to have found a treat that is big enough to be seen by Shama when tossed on the ground yet low in calories!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

5:40 AM. Shama peed. Shama pooped. Shama did a perfect six-pole weave with me walking on her left. Tossed one turkey mixer. Shama did a perfect six-pole weave with me walking on her right. Tossed one turkey mixer. Hallelujah!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Videos from 6 PM tonight.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r74b3zeeume168/170907 six weave poles left.MTS?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdhpxpxi81dr0ec/170907 six weave poles right.MTS?dl=0

Had to try a few times to get the second one, but whatever . . . we're making progress!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Meant to attach this photo to show you that the long-haired dogs (at least mine, I guess) can see through the hair in front of their eyes. I do clip it back for class, however, and I will for trials too . . . (And, just in case you don't know, you can watch my dropbox videos without creating a dropbox account. You just click on the X in the top right corner to close that box . . .)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Karen, what lotus ball do you recommend? Sophie, Shama is wild about the turkey mixers! It took me a while to find them at Petco because they're with raw food, not training treats. I got the sample size of three flavors - beef, turkey, chicken (I think). $2 for one ounce, or $12 for six ounces. I was surprised to not get a better deal on the larger package. Then I noticed $2 and $3 off coupons for the big packages on the backs of the little packages! Anyway, she eagerly practices her weaves in order to get these turkey treats! Thanks so much for the tip! So happy to have found a treat that is big enough to be seen by Shama when tossed on the ground yet low in calories!


I got mine from Clean Run. It's the smallest one they had.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Glad she can see through her hair. Kodi and Panda have thick enough bangs that they really can't. An old agility trainer used to try to tell me that Kodi could see... until he ran SMACK into the first pole of the weaves right in front of me. After that, he believed me.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Below is a link to a video taken last night at open mat. She did 12 weave poles like nobody's business. Everything went well until 50 seconds when she wouldn't go up the teeter. Later she did though. I just edited this to put a better link. Can someone please tell me if the first link below works better than the second? Either way, I think you should be able to view the video without signing up for Dropbox. Thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pyfa36pdjnstfp8/2017 12 15 twelve weave poles.MP4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1o8p0px3eyrkmt/2017 12 15 twelve weave poles.m2ts?dl=0


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

I got it downloaded. That was so funny to see her run up the teeter grab the treat and run back down. She's not stupid, that's for sure. LOL The weave poles were impressive enough to make the teeter-trouble insignificant. Good for her! I realized watching the run they set up for you, that the class I was in was for much more advanced agility, in that the course was set so tight, and major reverse jumps and tricks to make the dog want to go in a tunnel instead of the ramp. Heck, Tux has only been to class about 9 times, and we have not been able to learn the reverse jumps (or whatever you call it) before the baptism by fire. 

I'm not sure what to do next....maybe private lessons?


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Do they offer a variety of courses ranging from beginner to advanced, or is everyone in the same course? You could try online courses like the ones offered at Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. I'm really liking my start line stay course. Private lessons would probably be great too. Good luck!


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

They offer classes based on levels of experience. What I discovered was the inattention to the necessary basics even in the beginning classes. The gym is usually divided up so that two dogs can work at once with ONE instructor, but the instruction is severely lacking. I went online and found lots of videos that show training techniques that convinced me that we were paying lots of money to use jumps and hoops without enough guidance. We live in a condo with no room to set up jumps. The academy we attended lost their original trainer, (as I discovered online), so that may explain the insufficient training.

I watched your video and saw that the course was easy to follow so that the dog and owner are set up to succeed rather than fail. If I were teaching this sport, I would make sure that a dog and owner could easily complete a successful course BEFORE I threw reverse jumps and obstacles purposefully meant to make the dog want to take the most obvious course rather than the course that is set. I understand why they do that, but I think its like asking a first year medical student to do heart surgery.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

You are absolutely right. They shouldn't be frustrating the dog and the handler at any point. They should be setting everyone up for success and joy. We're lucky (in many ways, not all) to live in a time where many resources are available online. Podcasts and online videos and online courses may be your best bet at this point. Our kennel club offers five levels of agility classes (I, II, III, one without a number, and IV), and our lower levels are jam packed with minute details and instruction. They were actually overwhelming, and I audited the first one even when I was in the fourth level (because it just meant staying after my class to listen). We are staying in the fourth level until we're approved to move up.

Class Schedule

So much information was presented in these classes that I know we could be stronger agility competitors had we only had the time to really practice, practice, practice what we learned at each lesson. We got multiple pages of homework at each class! (Prior to owning Shama, I'd always enjoyed watching agility here and there, like at the Minnesota State Fair, but I had not understood how much work goes into running agility courses. It isn't easy to be good!)


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## Cmward (Jun 28, 2017)

Shama looks like she is having so much fun, until she gets to that enormous teeter totter! I don’t blame her for wanting to take a pass on that one lol. Hearing her little groans of protest remind me of myself when I’m working out with my trainer, certain exercises just make a girl groan!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Here's a video from class tonight. She broke her start line stay, and she missed the entrance to the weave poles but then got it on the second try. Then things went downhill when I forgot where I was going and what I was supposed to be doing, but then in the end, despite my really awkward front cross, she did an excellent job on the last nine obstacles!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g7aeumgqjp76qa4/2018 01 26 awkward handler clever dog.MP4?dl=0


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Here's a video from class tonight. She broke her start line stay, and she missed the entrance to the weave poles but then got it on the second try. Then things went downhill when I forgot where I was going and what I was supposed to be doing, but then in the end, despite my really awkward front cross, she did an excellent job on the last nine obstacles!
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/g7aeumgqjp76qa4/2018 01 26 awkward handler clever dog.MP4?dl=0


Adorable! In spite of missing her first weave entrance, it was lovely how much distance you could keep on them once she got in correctly!


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Strictly speaking from a novice's viewpoint, I never would have known what was missed and what was not, and whether the "guidance" was skewed. Just post that great video of that beautiful pup racing through her obstacles, and we will all cheer in the end anyway! Bravo Shama! Good job Mama!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> Adorable! In spite of missing her first weave entrance, it was lovely how much distance you could keep on them once she got in correctly!


It's because I put six weave poles in the back yard and have her run through twice (once with me on each side) each time I take her out to potty.

Now the head trainer is telling me I really must invest in 12 weave poles that she is always used to doing 12. Her husband makes sets of 12 for $70. I was planning to research to see if that's a reasonable price. Does it seem reasonable to you? Do you agree that I should really get 12 poles for the back yard if we're going to be serious about agility?


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Tux's Mom said:


> Strictly speaking from a novice's viewpoint, I never would have known what was missed and what was not, and whether the "guidance" was skewed. Just post that great video of that beautiful pup racing through her obstacles, and we will all cheer in the end anyway! Bravo Shama! Good job Mama!


Thanks, Nancy! I remember having so much fun just watching agility before I knew how complicated it was. My current struggle is wondering whether I should treat frequently to keep her happy and engaged or not stop the momentum if she's on a run. The danger of not treating is having her lose enthusiasm and then treating to "bribe" her back to the activity which could be understood by her to be "mess up or stop and Mommy will give me a treat!"

So much to consider . . .


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

ShamaMama said:


> Thanks, Nancy! I remember having so much fun just watching agility before I knew how complicated it was. My current struggle is wondering whether I should treat frequently to keep her happy and engaged or not stop the momentum if she's on a run. The danger of not treating is having her lose enthusiasm and then treating to "bribe" her back to the activity which could be understood by her to be "mess up or stop and Mommy will give me a treat!"
> 
> So much to consider . . .


After the hurricane evacuation, a lot of "life" got in the way, and we let agility slide for awhile.

The one thing I know that inspired Tux, was not the treat at the end. The treat was used more as a tool for directing than for reward while he was learning how to go over or through an obstacle. Tux's real inspiration, was how fast we were running and the level of my excitement. Consequently, I ALWAYS screwed up the proper "route" and couldn't remember the next turn fast enough. Tux was so into it that he just kept going regardless of my hesitation and picked his own course at full throttle. He loved the tunnels more than anything. The instructor said the name for those dogs is "tunnel hugger".

I don't think I am cut out for quickly memorizing a one-time, set up that requires lots of maneuvering to get it "right". Tux isn't either because we both loved the action and the fast pace. You could see the glee in his face. I'm thinking for Tux's sake that if we build the house we are thinking about, we will have a yard to play in. We can then really speed around. That's why he loves spinning around and around the coffee table, reversing and growling. Such FUN!

I saw one lady get so exasperated at her new pup because it wasn't as "good" as her previous "champion". I felt badly for the pup. She took all the joy out of it. Dogs could give a hoot if they get it right or win, they just want to have fun and know their best friend is happy with them.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> It's because I put six weave poles in the back yard and have her run through twice (once with me on each side) each time I take her out to potty.
> 
> Now the head trainer is telling me I really must invest in 12 weave poles that she is always used to doing 12. Her husband makes sets of 12 for $70. I was planning to research to see if that's a reasonable price. Does it seem reasonable to you? Do you agree that I should really get 12 poles for the back yard if we're going to be serious about agility?


I don't remember what I paid for mine, but they are the competition type ones from Max 200.

You ABSOLUTELY need to get her past 6, and soon. Dogs that practice 6 for too long don't understand that they need to stay in and keep going. We actually sometimes train with more, just so that it's very clear in their heads that "we weave until there are no more."


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Thanks, Nancy! I remember having so much fun just watching agility before I knew how complicated it was. My current struggle is wondering whether I should treat frequently to keep her happy and engaged or not stop the momentum if she's on a run. The danger of not treating is having her lose enthusiasm and then treating to "bribe" her back to the activity which could be understood by her to be "mess up or stop and Mommy will give me a treat!"
> 
> So much to consider . . .


It's a tricky balance... and you have to decide it for your own dog. Once the dog is sequencing, I try not to treat more often than every 5 or 6 obstacles, and someplace that makes sense for them to pause anyway. And then vary it... sometimes 5, sometimes 7, every once in a while 4... It's when you do it repeatedly every x number of obstacles that you re likely to get into trouble.

And with Kodi (who HATES being wrong) I learned that I never EVER stop on a mistake. I ALWAYS do at least one more obstacle and have a party. If it's a "dog mistake", I try to think how I can sore-up that particular skill, but not in the context of a sequence. If it was MY mistake, even if I want to try it again, to see if I can handle it better, I do something else, PILE on the cookies, then go back to it.

Have a discussion with your trainer about those concerns, and tell her how you think you'd like to handle it. See if she agrees. If not, ask her how she would approach it, and if it makes sense for you and Shama, try i that way. If she likes your approach, she'll be aware what your plan is, and won't be surprised and think you made an off-course mistake or something.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tux's Mom said:


> After the hurricane evacuation, a lot of "life" got in the way, and we let agility slide for awhile.
> 
> The one thing I know that inspired Tux, was not the treat at the end. The treat was used more as a tool for directing than for reward while he was learning how to go over or through an obstacle. Tux's real inspiration, was how fast we were running and the level of my excitement. Consequently, I ALWAYS screwed up the proper "route" and couldn't remember the next turn fast enough. Tux was so into it that he just kept going regardless of my hesitation and picked his own course at full throttle. He loved the tunnels more than anything. The instructor said the name for those dogs is "tunnel hugger".
> 
> ...


Sounds like Tux might be a Lure Coursing candidate! Now with the AKC "CAT" program, even non-sight hounds can play. I know a couple of Havanese with Lure Coursing titles.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> I don't remember what I paid for mine, but they are the competition type ones from Max 200.
> 
> You ABSOLUTELY need to get her past 6, and soon. Dogs that practice 6 for too long don't understand that they need to stay in and keep going. We actually sometimes train with more, just so that it's very clear in their heads that "we weave until there are no more."


I checked at affordableagility.com, and 12 poles are $439.

I also checked at Max 200, and the price is also higher than what I could pay here.

I went ahead and ordered from the husband of my teacher. She emphasized the fact that his are spaced properly, and it seems the price cannot be beat!

Thanks for your insight!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> I checked at affordableagility.com, and 12 poles are $439.
> 
> I also checked at Max 200, and the price is also higher than what I could pay here.
> 
> ...


Sounds good, but do you need 12? I thought you already had 6...

My first 6 (also competition spacing) were on 2x2 bases. At the time, I also had a set of 6 cheap, PVC base ones from Ebay (also the same spacing, though) and when I got my Max 200 ones, I just put them end to end. Kodi had no problem with it.

Later, I got 6 more from Max 200, those are 3 poles to a base. (so 2 bases make a set of 6) I like that I can put them all together as a straight 12, or twist the 2x2's out to make an easier entrance, or help a dog out if they are struggling and popping out in a certain place. Having the two sets of 6, and having the different length bases not only makes them very flexible in terms of how I use them, but also makes them MUCH easier to carry. The ones at both training centers I go to are full 12 pole sets, and the the base is hinged in the middle. So carrying that HUGE (and heavy) piece of iron around to move it is a real chore.

In the summer, my set is outside on grass, so needs to be moved weekly to mow. I like that it's not too heavy when disassembled. And for this winter, when Panda needs regular work on them, I can set up 6-8 in the basement. I can actually fit the whole 12, but not with much room to work entries or exits, and thenI can't do ANYTHING else in my training space without taking the whole thing down.

Right now, I'm working to get her to drive through 6 straight without looking at me. So I've got a Treat'n'Train set up as far from the end pole as I can set it. As soon as she successfully clears all 6, I press the button, so she runs straight ahead to get her treats.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Can you please post a link to your treat n train? We're borrowing the six weave poles, and I want my 12 to all be the same type and ones I can keep!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Can you please post a link to your treat n train? We're borrowing the six weave poles, and I want my 12 to all be the same type and ones I can keep!


Oh, that makes perfect sense then! I didn't realize that the ones you had at home were borrowed!

Here's the Treat'n'Train:https://smile.amazon.com/PetSafe-Tr...025&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=treat+n+train&psc=1


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

krandall said:


> Sounds like Tux might be a Lure Coursing candidate! Now with the AKC "CAT" program, even non-sight hounds can play. I know a couple of Havanese with Lure Coursing titles.


I watched a video of Lure Coursing and I don't think that would be a good fit for us. Tux is not a distance type racer. He loves the jumps, tunnels, skywalks (or whatever they're called). He likes participating with Mom and I can't run as fast as those plastic mice things they used for bait. LOL I think what he needs is a smarter "guide" who can memorize the course well enough to stay ahead of him.

We could have a blast if we could run the same course for more than 10 minutes a week and be able to repeat until its flawless. We wound up in a class of five people, so there were 5 dogs with two different courses, each crammed into one half of one room. They waited until our hour began to set up both courses. Needless to say, there was not nearly enough time or attention devoted to getting it right. To make it worse, the one instructor could only deal with one half of the room at a time. The owner of the agility school is seriously into competing with her own dog. I privately wondered if the classes were more about income than success for the dogs. So in the spirit of fun, Tux and I did the best we could at the speed required to achieve the "happy dog" award.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> Here's the Treat'n'Train:https://smile.amazon.com/PetSafe-Tr...025&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=treat+n+train&psc=1


Seems like a fun gadget!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Tux's Mom said:


> We could have a blast if we could run the same course for more than 10 minutes a week and be able to repeat until its flawless. We wound up in a class of five people, so there were 5 dogs with two different courses, each crammed into one half of one room. They waited until our hour began to set up both courses. Needless to say, there was not nearly enough time or attention devoted to getting it right. To make it worse, the one instructor could only deal with one half of the room at a time. The owner of the agility school is seriously into competing with her own dog. I privately wondered if the classes were more about income than success for the dogs. So in the spirit of fun, Tux and I did the best we could at the speed required to achieve the "happy dog" award.


That's too bad. Are there any other agility schools in your area? I was wondering how long it takes my instructor to set up our courses (we start at 6 PM on Friday and run three courses consisting of the same obstacles numbered in three different ways; we usually don't leave much before 8 PM even though class is supposed to last only an hour). Then today, when we were having lunch together after a Kennel Club event, she mentioned that she'd gone in at 4:15 AM to set up our course before work! I was startled at the thought and then didn't think to ask how long it took . . .

Can you take a tricks class? We're taking a four-week trick class where we're free to work on what we want with the trainer's guidance. Tux would like that, I think!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tux's Mom said:


> I watched a video of Lure Coursing and I don't think that would be a good fit for us. Tux is not a distance type racer. He loves the jumps, tunnels, skywalks (or whatever they're called). He likes participating with Mom and I can't run as fast as those plastic mice things they used for bait. LOL I think what he needs is a smarter "guide" who can memorize the course well enough to stay ahead of him.
> 
> We could have a blast if we could run the same course for more than 10 minutes a week and be able to repeat until its flawless. We wound up in a class of five people, so there were 5 dogs with two different courses, each crammed into one half of one room. They waited until our hour began to set up both courses. Needless to say, there was not nearly enough time or attention devoted to getting it right. To make it worse, the one instructor could only deal with one half of the room at a time. The owner of the agility school is seriously into competing with her own dog. I privately wondered if the classes were more about income than success for the dogs. So in the spirit of fun, Tux and I did the best we could at the speed required to achieve the "happy dog" award.


Actually, even if you were seriously interested in competing, "The happy dog award" is the number one requirement for success! It is just not possible to MAKE a off leash dog do what he doesn't want to do... especially when they need to go fast at the same time. Good for you for knowing what to make a priority! Maybe you can find another agility school with a better atmosphere.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Seems like a fun gadget!


It's pretty useful for a lot of training where you want to control the dog's access to a treat, but at the same time, not have the treat come from your body.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> That's too bad. Are there any other agility schools in your area? I was wondering how long it takes my instructor to set up our courses (we start at 6 PM on Friday and run three courses consisting of the same obstacles numbered in three different ways; we usually don't leave much before 8 PM even though class is supposed to last only an hour). Then today, when we were having lunch together after a Kennel Club event, she mentioned that she'd gone in at 4:15 AM to set up our course before work! I was startled at the thought and then didn't think to ask how long it took . . .
> 
> Can you take a tricks class? We're taking a four-week trick class where we're free to work on what we want with the trainer's guidance. Tux would like that, I think!


At the agility school I go to, which has really high level competitor, the course is set up on Monday mornings, and often is a course from a high level competition that has happened recently. Of course, for the beginner classes, they don't work the whole course, and will give easier approaches to very technical sequences, etc., so dogs (and handlers) are not over-faced. But the course only is set up once a week. They have a staff member whose job is to use the map she is given to set up the course each week, then the senior instructor, who is an AKC and USDAA judge, and has competed on national teams checks distances, etc. They also have an obedience ring and a "pet class" ring, so all the rings are set up all the time during the week. For a trial, they rearrange moving dividers to accommodate the course, spectators and crating. (plus a warm-up area and sometimes vendors)

Even in the much more relaxed, "for the fun of it" agility classes at my obedience school, the courses are ALWAYS set up before the students arrive. But they are smaller (about half the size of a standard agility ring) and simpler too. The students never have to wait for a course to be set up. If you are in the last class of the day, the instructor does usually ask people to help take things back down, though. Our obedience school can accommodate 2 competition size obedience rings, plus spectators and crating, so it is often used for obedience and rally trials, but it isn't big enough for a regulation size agility ring, even if they use both sides.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Video from tonight. Still need to practice what I learned in my start line class, but otherwise happy.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QkI1IoMteFJuQYBRAKzl1Oq2uRGKXQoe/view?usp=sharing

Please let me know if you are able to see the video. Thanks!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Video from tonight. Still need to practice what I learned in my start line class, but otherwise happy.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QkI1IoMteFJuQYBRAKzl1Oq2uRGKXQoe/view?usp=sharing
> 
> Please let me know if you are able to see the video. Thanks!


Saw it and it was a lovely run! Good girlie!


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Those are some well placed front crosses! She reads them loud and clear  Not my strong area AT ALL :laugh:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KarMar said:


> Those are some well placed front crosses! She reads them loud and clear  Not my strong area AT ALL :laugh:


That's cause you're always running to catch up with your little speed demon!!! LOL! It's good thing you're young! LOL!


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## LoriJack (Aug 21, 2017)

ShamaMama said:


> Video from tonight. Still need to practice what I learned in my start line class, but otherwise happy.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QkI1IoMteFJuQYBRAKzl1Oq2uRGKXQoe/view?usp=sharing
> 
> Please let me know if you are able to see the video. Thanks!


I am so impressed with you and Shama for the discipline, patience, coordination, and determination. I would not be able to keep up with KC's speed and it will be a long time before I could train him to remain focused on any consistent basis! Shama is a very impressive little girl

https://ios.pitapata.com/view.php/488570b129037a4c5c53a830510801cb/2/4/22.png itaPata Dogshttps://pitapata.com


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

krandall said:


> That's cause you're always running to catch up with your little speed demon!!! LOL! It's good thing you're young! LOL!


I have learned to REALLY love rears  :laugh:


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## Ollie"s Mom (May 23, 2014)

She is absolutely wonderful, loved watching the videos. Way to go Shama you pretty little girl.


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## Genie1000 (Apr 13, 2017)

Looks like you are both having so much fun! Thanks for sharing your videos. They motivate me to try something new!
I’m looking for a place to do rally with Penelope.


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## hlang (Jan 21, 2018)

I sure enjoyed watching how she progresses from classes 1 to 2 to 3. You two are an amazing team. She looks so tiny.


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

great video!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Here's a video from two nights ago.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdoxxlvq0eqnoce/2018 03 26 good run.MP4?dl=0

At the end of the night, we realized that there may be one good way to achieve a good start line stay. (I have no video.) I tell her to WAIT, putting my hand in front of her face, then I cross my arms (like I do in obedience when I'm across the room and she's going to be staying for a while), then I side step away from her, then I step forward with my right foot (instead of my heeling foot), then I turn to face her as I'm walking away with my arms crossed looking at her. THAT seems to result in a start line stay. I'll keep working on that, plus I need to reread my online start-line stay course lessons . . .

Our goal is to be ready for the Havanese specialty show in August, and I should probably enter her in a trial or two before then for the practice. She hasn't done a trial yet.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Oh how I wish we had a set up like that here in Naples. Shama is doing really well. I was trying to tell if you have specific words that you use for specific commands. Tux knows "wait" (with my hand face out to him) which means, as soon as I give a release word, he can go. Maybe if you used, "Wait" and "GO". Then Shama wont get confused with just body language. Experiment with both words and body language. You can use those every day at home, or out and about, to practice.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

My release word is BREAK. I sometimes also release with the name of the obstacle.

GO TUNNEL! (One of my classmates says IN!)
CLIMB IT! (A frame)
WALK IT! (Dog walk)
WEAVE!
HUP! (Jump)
TIP IT! (Teeter)
GO! (If I just want her to run straight, jumping all the remaining jumps.)

I use WAIT both at the start line and anytime I want her to slow down and await the next command. WAIT is also what we use during all of our photo shoots!

My first agility instructor said not to name it until you love it. I.e., don't start using a specific command until the dog can already execute the behavior consistently. I've only recently started saying, WEAVE, for example.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Here's a video from two nights ago.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdoxxlvq0eqnoce/2018 03 26 good run.MP4?dl=0
> 
> ...


One important part of really getting a good start line stay is going back OFTEN to reward her for staying... even if you only can take a step or two away to start with. Panda has a very good start line stay, and still, at least every third time I put her on a start line in practice, I'll do my lead out (I can lead out 3 obstacles at this point) turn, tell her she's a good girl, and walk back and give her cookies. She's never positive whether this is one of "those times" or if I'm going to release her to run. So she stays where she belongs!

Remember that you can practice that at home easily too, even without obstacles. Just set her up, move as far as you can and be SURE that she'll stay, go back and reward. Then start slowly increasing the distance you can walk away from her, but alternate with shorter distances too, so she doesn't get discouraged by it ALWAYS getting harder.


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## abi38 (Mar 23, 2017)

Zelda is too "good" at start line stay recently. She doesn't even move when I say break. I don't know if she has trouble hearing me or not, but I had to call her name, clap or make excited noise for her to start.
When I train them I do a lot of "fake" starting motions (everything that might trigger them without saying Break) like bending over, moving my arms, running away. Wonder if I faked her out too many times, Link certainly needs that practice tho.

It'd be great for Sharma to go to the Specialty show


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