# Who is off leash trained



## lucymyhavanese (May 1, 2012)

Just wondering who trained your havanese and how you trained your havanese to be very obedient and come when called off-leashound::whoo::biggrin1:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lucymyhavanese said:


> Just wondering who trained your havanese and how you trained your havanese to be very obedient and come when called off-leashound::whoo::biggrin1:


Kodi is, but it's a LOT of work, best started at a young age.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing, is that it's like potty training. You MUST set it up so that it's easy for the dog to do the right thing, and very hard for them to make a mistake. You must NEVER call your dog unless you are 95% sure that you can get him to respond immediately and with enthusiasm. Most people start with "Come, come *C O M E ! ! !* " over and over, (while the young dog pays NO attention, or worse, purposely plays keep-away!) from a very young age. Dogs that have had this sort of start on the recall will be even harder to train.

And there are some breeds (notably sight hounds) as well as some individuals of other breeds that just can't be trusted to recall reliably in the open EVER. They are just wired to follow anything moving. They act completely instinctively, without even thinking.

I had three things in my favor with Kodi.

1. He is EXTREMELY people oriented, so his favorite thing is being with me anyway.

2. When he was learning to be off leash, he was accompanied by an older, well-trained dog that he adored. So we could call both dogs back together, and Kodi happily did what the older dog did. (and still got HUGE praise for it!!!)

3. Kodi and I have worked with EXCELLENT positive-based trainers from the time he was a small puppy. They (and reading TONS about positive training methods) helped me avoid many of the pitfalls that other people make. This hasn't been inexpensive, but has been extremely rewarding, both in terms of my dog's behavior and in terms of all the fun we have had working together.

Then it just takes a LONG time, and many, MANY positive repetitions to get (and KEEP) it reliable. Even now, when we are out in the woods, I ALWAYS have cookies in my pocket. Several times in the course of our walk, I will call him back to me, pat him and tell him he's wonderful, give him a cookie and release him. As a result, when I see someone coming toward us on the tracks with another dog, even if he heads toward the dog, I can call him back, and he will turn right around and come back to me. I don't have to worry about him getting in any trouble with a reactive dog.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Mine started off with nice walks off leash. I can say there not trained like Kodi and I am probably stupid to let them do what we do . But they just have always followed me and has never been a problem getting them to come. I have however had a couple people get mad at me when they barked at them while off leash Bad mom! I do try to get their leashes on if I see someone coming or if a big dog is around. But for the most part are walks I don't run into anyone. I have a feeling that's why they aren't trained to walk on a loose leash. 
These are old pictures I thought I would share of Maddie on one of our off leash walks she was about 16 to 18 weeks old.


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## lucymyhavanese (May 1, 2012)

I am wiling to train Lucy however hard it is to have a reliable recall and although she almost 3 years old the saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" doesn't really apply to ANY dog. Especially since I want to get Lucy involved in agility after she goes through a 12 week recall and off leash training class at port Chester obedience club. Plus Lucy loves me but she also loves lots of dogs.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

That sounds like fun ! I


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

Atticus is off to a good start and is off leash trained in certain situations. I agree with everything said by Karen. It basically takes a long time, ongoing practice and you are, in my opinion never done training/rewarding recall. Atticus will be two in March so he is still very young and is often free and on all types of leash. He has a very long flex leash for his sniff walks in places that I don't feel comfortable with him off leash. He also walks with out pulling on a 6 foot leash, and will follow a "with me" command on either side that is basically a heel. He will follow a "with me" command off leash too and stay close to me in certain areas like leaving my house to go to the car with out running off to play in the yard. He is allowed off leash on my or friends property where I know there will be no strange dogs, cars etc. When he is just with me in the woods he has an excellent recall. I have not worked with him(YET) much with distraction i.e. calling him away from other dogs who are playing. If I don't think he will come I use his "wait" command and go get him. I find the "wait" to be a good one, if he sees something ahead he is more likely to feel comfortable waiting than turning his back on it and coming. I still do not use "Come" which will eventually be my serious recall word. This is a sacred word, still saving it! I have done much of my early training on long lines and dragged leashes. If you keep in your mind that you always want your dog to succeed and never put then in a position to fail you will only call them when you know they will come,be close if need be, have treats,don't expect difficult recalls to happen if you haven't trained for them. They are choosing you over all kinds of wonderful things,freedom,smelly stuff,friends, it's not easy and must be rewarded! Good Luck!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> Mine started off with nice walks off leash. I can say there not trained like Kodi and I am probably stupid to let them do what we do . But they just have always followed me and has never been a problem getting them to come. I have however had a couple people get mad at me when they barked at them while off leash Bad mom! I do try to get their leashes on if I see someone coming or if a big dog is around. But for the most part are walks I don't run into anyone. I have a feeling that's why they aren't trained to walk on a loose leash.
> These are old pictures I thought I would share of Maddie on one of our off leash walks she was about 16 to 18 weeks old.


You were lucky, Suzi, that like me, you got one that just naturally wanted to stay with you. Then she probably helped train Zoey to stay close. If I remember, you didn't have barking problems until Zoey entered the mix... she probably taught Maddie that!:biggrin1:

As far as walking on a loose lead is concerned, it is entirely possible to teach different behaviors under different conditions. Kodi heels very properly in the ring, as I'm sure you've seen in our videos. He also will walk happily on leash, not in heel position, but without pulling if we are on a casual on-leash walk. He knows that in the agility ring, he is expected to work away from me, at speed, and on either side as requested, but still pay close attention to my direction. And then he knows the off leash, in the woods "rules" too. I'm sure, if he were a conformation ring dog, he could also learn to walk away from me, but on a loose lead, in that situation.

It's a matter of teaching each skill, and teaching them what the rules are under different circumstances. I know that most people who show in breed AND obedience use a different leash/collar set for one than they do for the other, just to help the dog differentiate in terms of what is expected. (a BIG difference is that when heeling in the obedience ring, the dog must sit in heel position every time the handler halts. As you know, you NEVER want a dog to sit in the conformation ring!!!)

To help Kodi know when heeling is required and when it doesn't matter and he can have more freedom, he wears a harness for casual walks and, of course (because the rules say they have to!) he wears a collar in the obedience ring. He runs naked in the agility ring. (some venues allow collars, others don't so I just don't use one period)

So, I guess my point is, if you WANT the sisters to learn to walk on a loose lead AND behave while running loose, you can certainly do that, but it does require training!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lucymyhavanese said:


> I am wiling to train Lucy however hard it is to have a reliable recall and although she almost 3 years old the saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" doesn't really apply to ANY dog. Especially since I want to get Lucy involved in agility after she goes through a 12 week recall and off leash training class at port Chester obedience club. Plus Lucy loves me but she also loves lots of dogs.


Oh, I never said you couldn't teach her at this age... I said you'd have to work HARDER!  (and 3 years old is actually a very YOUNG dog (this is something my trainers often remind me of if I get frustrated with progress in a certain area, as Kodi is 3 too!) in terms of training... It's just easier the earlier you start!)

And you are right to take your recall and off-leash training class before even trying agility. It is imperative that you be able to keep their attention off leash to get anything done in the agility ring!

Just don't be surprised if it take you significantly longer than 12 weeks to put a really reliable recall on her if it's a significant problem now. Most trainers will tell you that a really reliable recall takes AT LEAST a year to solidify with most dogs. There are exceptions, of course, in both directions. But to expect it to take less time than that is asking to be disappointed.

It's fantastic that you will will be taking a class with her... that is a GREAT first step!!!


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## lucymyhavanese (May 1, 2012)

krandall said:


> Oh, I never said you couldn't teach her at this age... I said you'd have to work HARDER!  (and 3 years old is actually a very YOUNG dog (this is something my trainers often remind me of if I get frustrated with progress in a certain area, as Kodi is 3 too!) in terms of training... It's just easier the earlier you start!)
> 
> And you are right to take your recall and off-leash training class before even trying agility. It is imperative that you be able to keep their attention off leash to get anything done in the agility ring!
> 
> ...


I am really grateful for your support and I hope maybe Lucy could be like your dog! You and your dog are an amazing team I am most definitely going to take more than 1 of those classes if not 4 or 5 because I really want little Lucy to be reliable recall proof:biggrin1::biggrin1:


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## lucymyhavanese (May 1, 2012)

Atticus said:


> Atticus is off to a good start and is off leash trained in certain situations. I agree with everything said by Karen. It basically takes a long time, ongoing practice and you are, in my opinion never done training/rewarding recall. Atticus will be two in March so he is still very young and is often free and on all types of leash. He has a very long flex leash for his sniff walks in places that I don't feel comfortable with him off leash. He also walks with out pulling on a 6 foot leash, and will follow a "with me" command on either side that is basically a heel. He will follow a "with me" command off leash too and stay close to me in certain areas like leaving my house to go to the car with out running off to play in the yard. He is allowed off leash on my or friends property where I know there will be no strange dogs, cars etc. When he is just with me in the woods he has an excellent recall. I have not worked with him(YET) much with distraction i.e. calling him away from other dogs who are playing. If I don't think he will come I use his "wait" command and go get him. I find the "wait" to be a good one, if he sees something ahead he is more likely to feel comfortable waiting than turning his back on it and coming. I still do not use "Come" which will eventually be my serious recall word. This is a sacred word, still saving it! I have done much of my early training on long lines and dragged leashes. If you keep in your mind that you always want your dog to succeed and never put then in a position to fail you will only call them when you know they will come,be close if need be, have treats,don't expect difficult recalls to happen if you haven't trained for them. They are choosing you over all kinds of wonderful things,freedom,smelly stuff,friends, it's not easy and must be rewarded! Good Luck!


that's really good that you have a good recall at that young of an age:whoo::whoo:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lucymyhavanese said:


> I am really grateful for your support and I hope maybe Lucy could be like your dog! You and your dog are an amazing team I am most definitely going to take more than 1 of those classes if not 4 or 5 because I really want little Lucy to be reliable recall proof:biggrin1::biggrin1:


I think most Havanese can be like Kodi. He's very special to ME, but I've met so many wonderful Havs! It's just a matter of putting in the time and effort. I come from a background of training horses, so I knew ahead of time that to get him to be the dog I wanted him to be would take a lot of work... Not just in classes, but every day. As a for instance, today we worked on:

Dumbell work (he is FINALLY picking it up and HOLDING it!!!)
Drop on Recall
Signals (the dog has to do a moving stand, then from a distance, without words, you have to tell them to down, sit, then recall)
Fronts 
Back-up

I didn't spend a big chunk of time training, and I didn't spend a LOT of time on any one thing. But I worked on a little of this and a little of that at odd moments during the day. You've just got to always keep thinking about it.

So take advantage of those odd "free" moments (they always follow us into the bathroom, right? You can work on sit/stays there! and keep on working on little things. You can work on reinforcing your recall even at meal times. you KNOW she's going to come then, so be ready to "click/treat" as soon as she arrives. A 100% success training possibility!:biggrin1:


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

nope, Tillie isn't really off leash trained... but I am an over paranoid hav mom who doesn't LET her off leash anywhere any way. Just the pure THOUGHT of ANYTHING happening, her taking off for any reason, or a big dog coming over and her FREAKING out and that dog attacking her ... well, I am just not able to take that risk. She is "off leash" in our yard and any friends yards/houses we go to but that's about it. We do work on recall in the house and yard, but that's about it. I know I am in the minority, but honestly, I just do not let her off leash when we are out and about.


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

Tammy, not sure you are in the minority in this. I think people need to find what works for them and their dog, and safety and peace of mind are essential. I will never let Atticus off leash the way I have my big dogs even if he has a good recall because I'm too paranoid about other dogs, and all the wild animals that could hurt him. Sounds like Tillie gets out and about,runs in the yard and even goes on bike rides,lucky pup!


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Cey is fairly reliable off-leash - but only when there's no dogs, people, or other interesting things walking by! Haha, even then he is generally reliable, though still not 100%. But we started very young. I think that THE most important thing when training for a reliable off-leash recall is to repeat it over and over, giving a VERY high-quality treat each time - AND THEN LETTING THEM GO BACK AND PLAY. Do this EVERY time you take them out for training for recall. Don't EVER (at least, not until they are much older/more experience/more trained) call them back to you and then restrain them in any way, at least as much as you can help it. From the very start, the recall should be associated 100% with a completely positive thing, and never with a negative (i.e., put on the leash, put back in the car, etc.) thing. If you for instance are at the dog park, make sure the last time you recall them is to maybe put a flexi-leash on them and then let them go play a little bit more, even following them around for a while, so that they absolutely do not associate the recall with any sort of negative experience (and yes, being restrained/taken away from the dog park is, for a dog, a negative experience lol!). When they get more used to associating the recall with a completely positive experience, you can start occasionally calling them to you and then restraining them. But even now, I still generally give a treat of some sort to Cey when he comes when called, even if it's just coming inside from the yard after a pee-break.

By the way, I still never let him off-leash in a busy area, let alone if there are cars around. I completely envy the people with dogs who can walk off-leash in situations like that, but I just could never do it with Cey... he is only off-leash in very limited areas where I am fairly certain he won't run into a street and get run over or anything if there's another dog he sees...  But I do let him off-leash on the beach, or in the (unfenced) front yard, or occasionally when for instance I take my daughter to soccer practice and I'm letting him out of the car to go run around and there is plenty of grassy space for him to run without too many other distractions around. As I said, he does pretty well - not 100%, but he is reliable enough in those situations that I am confident that he would return to me if need be. (I still usually take at least one or two nibbles of cheese with me however, and mix those up with his more boring treats, and call him to me and give him treats and then let him go, to remind him of the wonderful things he could get from listening to me hahahaha! -In other words, I don't think that the recall training ever really completely ends )


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

heatherk said:


> I think that THE most important thing when training for a reliable off-leash recall is to repeat it over and over, giving a VERY high-quality treat each time - AND THEN LETTING THEM GO BACK AND PLAY. Do this EVERY time you take them out for training for recall. Don't EVER (at least, not until they are much older/more experience/more trained) call them back to you and then restrain them in any way, at least as much as you can help it. From the very start, the recall should be associated 100% with a completely positive thing, and never with a negative (i.e., put on the leash, put back in the car, etc.) thing.


I agree with this EXCEPT, it is very important for them to accept restraint and NOT look at that as a negative experience. Otherwise you can end up with a dog who comes back to you, snatches the cookie and dances just out of reach... in a possibly dangerous situation.

So make sure that when they come back to you, that you do grab the collar. (or even a big hunk of hair on a Hav:biggrin1 Do it gently, but make sure they know that you have them. THEN deliver the treat, tell them they are wonderful and release them (develop a consistent release word too!) to go play again.

Otherwise, this is a great post!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Chica'sMom said:


> I'm with you. We keep the leash on.


That's fine, but it is still VERY important to develop a reliable recall in at least semi-open areas (like a large enclosed field or yard) for emergency use. Leashes fail, dogs panic at loud noises and pull out of collars and harnesses, dogs dash out the door when they see a squirrel, people trip and drop leashes... even when people are being careful, things can go wrong and dogs get loose. A dog with a really reliable recall is MUCH safer.

And in the case of the OP, she wants to do agility with her dog. Even if the trial is held inside a completely enclosed building, (many are) your dog STILL needs to come back to you reliably or you can't work him. There is NO way to do agility (or even competitive obedience above the MOST basic level) if your dog isn't reliable off leash.


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## Buzzys Mom (Sep 28, 2010)

A reliable recall has been great with Oscar (see poop eating post- we call him and he comes, gets a treat and then he forgets about the poop eating). Also, he has learned to be off-leash at my in-laws backyard. He does his business and then comes back to the door. I think we started it by calling him when he finished making (again, so not to poop eat), and now he does it by himself. With that being said, he was a runner when we first got him and bolted out the door 2x. No more- he will walk out the front door if the UPS lady comes or whatever, but I use the "here" command and he comes back. How we taught it? We learned in puppy class for both of us to hide around the house with treats. We did and we would call him "Oscar. here!" He would come and get a treat. Then we practiced it on leash outside (long leash), then with leash on, but not in our hands until we progressed to not needing him on a leash anymore. I think everytime we use the "here" command we give him a treat (or most times), so he always obeys. IT only took a week or 2 to teach it to him.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

krandall said:


> I agree with this EXCEPT, it is very important for them to accept restraint and NOT look at that as a negative experience. Otherwise you can end up with a dog who comes back to you, snatches the cookie and dances just out of reach... in a possibly dangerous situation.
> 
> So make sure that when they come back to you, that you do grab the collar. (or even a big hunk of hair on a Hav:biggrin1 Do it gently, but make sure they know that you have them. THEN deliver the treat, tell them they are wonderful and release them (develop a consistent release word too!) to go play again.
> 
> Otherwise, this is a great post!


Thanks, yea, good point. I meant more like don't restrain them and then keep them restrained, at least not at first, but I guess I didn't really say that! Thanks for clarifying .


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## Buzzys Mom (Sep 28, 2010)

This is a good point- ALWAYS reach for them (pet them, grab the collar for a moment) BEFORE you give them the treat. In our case we pick Oscar up, then put him down, then the treat.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Bumi is, I didn't actually trained him, he is just a very obedient dog and can go off leash ans still stay within reaching distance of me.


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## phil57 (Feb 5, 2013)

I can't believe I'm posting here we don't even have our puppy yet. We get him Feb 18 very excited. I will post a introduction soon and I have lots of questions. 
We had a Brittany and a trainer had us start the off leash And stay at the same time. We would use her leash and tie a long rope to it. We would start with short distance. Sit stay come treat. We would keep getting longer distance and would control her with the rope. We stopped with the rope when we got out 30-40 feet but she learned quickly and I trusted her to come on command I most every situation. I don't know how that translate to a Havanese but I will soon find out.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

LOL! Welcome phil57! Can't wait to see your new pup soon


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