# EYE STAIN



## JoePat

Hi folks been a while since I showed my Avatar around here. Been busy, we purchase a Tiffin Motorhome and have been out and about seeing the world. My three pups love to travel and enjoy the couch rides we take. Anyway, I have been searching and expereminting to reduce or remove eye stain from my oldest pup Nuggie. He is 6 now and has had the red/rust eye stain since he was 8 weeks old. Several months ago I was in our Vets office for routine checkups and the eye stain issue came up. The Vet told me about a resent study of stomach issues with pups and a side effect was the eradication of red/rust eye and mouth staining. IAMS made a digestive aid called PROstora Max which was used in the stomach studies that lead to stain removal. Anyway we purchased a small supply to try out, one tab each morning, and after a month the staining was gone. We now give this to all of our pups and Beannie (our pied pup) had issues as well but being black in his face hid it. He too is now cured. Then we got word that IAMS was not going to produce PROstora anymore and the wild hunt was on. Contacted our Vet and he contacted the Doctors conducting the test in stomach issues for pups. Thank goodness there was another med that did the same thing and is in strong production. It is PROVIABLE-dc made by Nutramax. We again made a large purchase of Proviable and have been using it for the last month. Our Pups eyes and mouths are still clear of any staining and we are loving it. My larges pup, Nuggie is not snow while all over and looking great. 

Just wanted to pass this along to all stain haters, AMAZON still carries PROstora but for how long no one knows. Also be aware of dates as this med has a live culture in it and fresh is best. We keep this one in the frig at all times. Good luck and enjoy the small miracles (your pups) every moment. :grin2:


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## MarinaGirl

What great info Joe! Glad you finally found something that works for your 3 adorable fur kids. 

Do you know if the stuff is a pre or probiotic?


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## krandall

It looks like it is a pre/pro biotic. And, wow! It's expensive!!! $56 for a 1 month supply!!! I hate the staining, but that's a little rich for my blood, especially when mine are already on a good probiotic.


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## 31818

krandall said:


> mine are already on a good probiotic.


Which is? Ricky is on NaturVet probiotics.

We have been able to clean up Ricky's eye staining by feeding him only filtered water (Britta), daily face and eye washing, and weekly (and careful) application of Crystal White shampoo to the face. Costs just pennies a week.

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Which is? Ricky is on NaturVet probiotics.
> 
> We have been able to clean up Ricky's eye staining by feeding him only filtered water (Britta), daily face and eye washing, and weekly (and careful) application of Crystal White shampoo to the face. Costs just pennies a week.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


We do the same, and although Panda doesn't have tear stains, it really hasn't helped with her muzzle staining much. (if at all)


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## JoePat

I have done it all. We have two very good water filters always running in the house or on the road. We did raw foods, dry foods, can foods, and home made food. I have spent a fortune on trying to get my babies looking their best. I will continue to use the above meds noted and keep our pups in great shape. Also a side effect was good poops all the time when taking these meds. Having a long haired pup and not good poop is a pain in the $%#. Expense is not a problem for me when it comes to my fur babies. Only the best, All the time!


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## krandall

JoePat said:


> I have done it all. We have two very good water filters always running in the house or on the road. We did raw foods, dry foods, can foods, and home made food. I have spent a fortune on trying to get my babies looking their best. I will continue to use the above meds noted and keep our pups in great shape. Also a side effect was good poops all the time when taking these meds. Having a long haired pup and not good poop is a pain in the $%#. Expense is not a problem for me when it comes to my fur babies. Only the best, All the time!


Well, if it were a health issue (and if their poop isn't good, it may be) I'd be all over it. But in the case of Panda, her poop is fine, and she is on an excellent, vet approved pro and pre biotic with enzymes and eats top quality food. With her, she has no eye staining (and she has white hair there, so it's not just that it doesn't show) it's just around her mouth, and even there, it's not terrible. I think I'll just live with it.  She doesn't look too bad...


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## davetgabby

some tear stains respond to probiotics ,some do not this shows that yours responded to probiotics . There's nothing unique about these two products. I prefer human grade probiotics.


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## Tux's Mom

My dog doesn't have staining and his muzzle is white. He eats primal frozen nuggets that are nothing but unadulterated fresh meat with some veggies, bone, etc. ground in for dietary balance. I have often wondered if maybe the fact that most pet food and treats seem to be colored an unnatural tint that could lead to staining I also wonder what chemicals are used.


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## JoePat

I did not post to start a war here, I only wanted to let others know of my findings. Now I remember why I stopped viewing this forum sometime back. I will restrain from posting any other items for a while, Good Night.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

krandall said:


> It looks like it is a pre/pro biotic. And, wow! It's expensive!!! $56 for a 1 month supply!!! I hate the staining, but that's a little rich for my blood, especially when mine are already on a good probiotic.


I found the Proviable-dc on Amazon for only $16 and some change for a month supply.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

MarinaGirl said:


> What great info Joe! Glad you finally found something that works for your 3 adorable fur kids.
> 
> Do you know if the stuff is a pre or probiotic?


I didn't know there was a prebiotic. What is the difference between pre and pro? I might try the Proviable-dc. It's not that expensive on Amazon.


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## Heather's

Thank-you Joe for the helpful information. I know eye staining seems to be a big problem for many. It's great to know this definitely works since you have tried everything. Great tip for a difficult problem!


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## Dee Dee

I appreciate your post JoePat! I hadn't thought a lot about eye staining as Sophie is black there but she does get goop sometimes so am wondering if I should be cleaning her eyes. 
Your 3 are just precious!


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## Heather's

I think Joe was trying to help those that know how difficult it is to find something that really solves the eye staining problem. I definitely
would try a product that was proven to work. When Scout was a puppy he had some staining on his left eye. I used Angel Eyes which cleared it up. That product is no longer available. It's something you would only understand if your dog is light colored. It can be big problem. Even if the product might be a little more expensive I would buy it knowing it 
actually works. I really appreciate Joe's post because he knows how difficult a problem it can be with a light coat.


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## KarMar

Hm...I didn't see any "war waging" happening here. I, like everyone here, would spare no expense in aiding my dogs' health, but like others, I don't like spending more than I need. These probiotics work for your dogs' poop quality, tear staining, etc, and that is wonderful. We love hearing about successes of our members. That said, I would much rather spend extra money on something that can improve the quality of my boys' lives than improve the way they look, especially because I don't mind the tear stains. Heck, my show dog has them and he WINS. They don't bother him, and they don't bother me. If I can find a pre/probiotic that can do what is essentially the same thing for cheaper than $60 a month and is human-grade, you bet your back I will choose that one. Those who commented that they didn't see the need for those have dogs that, though staining might exist, are happy and healthy were not finding fault in you; they were simply stating that they personally did not find them necessary for their dogs.

We would love to have your presence on the forum. Please don't feel the need to leave because you felt unwanted or unappreciated. I think it is unfair to negatively characterize a group that has been nothing kind, welcoming, and helpful to me.


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## Willie51616!

I am very new to the Havanese Forum, and love all the information posted. I had not thought about prebioticsome until reading this post. Are they essential? Is this something I should be considering for Willie? I don't think he has excessive staining... he has brown around his eyes so it's hard to tell. Is there something I should be cleaning his eyes with? Or his face? I must admit I have not been doing eith we r of those things. I just give him a bath once a week, and brush every day....


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## Heather's

My groomer was here today laboring on "Labor Day", thank goodness! Scout and Truffles had such a wonderful time In Tahoe romping everywhere including the beach. Given that it was our vacation, my husband and I let the dogs be free from daily brushing and combing. They loved it! The nightly tooth brushing was still enforced! :brushteeth::brushteeth:

I mentioned to her that there had been discussion about staining and Proviable was suggested. She thought it might be helpful to all on the forum that one reads the book " Eat Dirt" by Dr. Josh Axe. This book is written for humans but, it explains in detail how the digestive system works and why pre and probiotics are so valuable and necessary to maintain a healthy gut.


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## krandall

goldanimals said:


> My dog doesn't have staining and his muzzle is white. He eats primal frozen nuggets that are nothing but unadulterated fresh meat with some veggies, bone, etc. ground in for dietary balance. I have often wondered if maybe the fact that most pet food and treats seem to be colored an unnatural tint that could lead to staining I also wonder what chemicals are used.


It really seems that different things cause staining in different dogs. There seem to be as many "cures" as there are dogs, too!. 

In our case, it's definitely NOT artificial coloring, because there is none in anything she eats. She has 8 siblings, and of the 9 puppies, she was already developing staining around her mouth (not from her eyes) while she was nursing, and was the only one to do so.

OTOH, the handler I've been working with says not to sweat it. As long as she's clean (and she always is) that's the LAST thing a judge is going to get hung up on when deciding between two dogs. It's rare that two are so closely matched that the ONLY thing to make a decision on is whether one has a stained beard.


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## krandall

JoePat said:


> I did not post to start a war here, I only wanted to let others know of my findings. Now I remember why I stopped viewing this forum sometime back. I will restrain from posting any other items for a while, Good Night.


Hey, Joe! I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with what you posted! But I also think that everyone else involved in the conversation has been respectful, just offering their own experience and perspectives. That's how we all learn from each other. I HATE it when people on the internet pounce on each other and get nasty, but honestly, there is almost NONE of that here. If it happens, the Mods get on top of it FAST. I hope you continue to participate!


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## krandall

Jackie from Concrete said:


> I found the Proviable-dc on Amazon for only $16 and some change for a month supply.


Can you send me the link? I'd love to try it at that price!


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## krandall

Willie51616! said:


> I am very new to the Havanese Forum, and love all the information posted. I had not thought about prebioticsome until reading this post. Are they essential? Is this something I should be considering for Willie? I don't think he has excessive staining... he has brown around his eyes so it's hard to tell. Is there something I should be cleaning his eyes with? Or his face? I must admit I have not been doing eith we r of those things. I just give him a bath once a week, and brush every day....


Reduction of staining is a nice side effect of pre-probiotics in the case of Joe's dogs. That's not the main reason people feed them. My vet feels that ALL dogs who have any stress in their lives, even if it's "fun" stress, should be on pre and probiotics and enzymes. It helps keep their intestinal tract on an even keel. And since MOST dogs DO experience some kinds of stress un less they sit on a cushion all day long, it sure doesn't hurt to have even household pets on them. My guys are training and competing on a regular basis, but even trip to the groomers or doggy day care can cause the kind of mild stress that can upset the intestinal tract.

As far as his face is concerned, depending on how short his facial hair is, it may not NEED washing after meals. If you are brushing him daily, it's easy enough to use a face comb to remove any "eye gunk" from the corners of his days. Panda and Kodi get very little, and that's all that is necessary for them. Pixel gets a bit more, and it's easier to soften it with a wet cotton pad (I usually just use water, though every once in a while I try a different eye cleaning solution) then comb it out. It's sure not a big deal, though! Oh, and Kodi and Pixel have black faces, so stains wouldn't show anyway. Panda does have a white muzzle, but her "problem" is not eye staining... it's actually clean under her eyes. In her case, it's around her mouth that gets so stained.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

krandall said:


> Can you send me the link? I'd love to try it at that price!


Here it is. I have ordered it but it hasn't come yet.

Amazon.com : Nutramax Proviable DC Capsules for Cats and Dogs, 30 Count : Pet Probiotic Nutritional Supplements : Pet Supplies


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

KarMar said:


> Hm...I didn't see any "war waging" happening here.
> 
> We would love to have your presence on the forum. Please don't feel the need to leave because you felt unwanted or unappreciated. I think it is unfair to negatively characterize a group that has been nothing kind, welcoming, and helpful to me.


I think part of the problems with online forums is that there is no eye contact or body language. Sometimes things get said in a way that is misunderstood and if one could see the person "talking" there would not be any misunderstanding.


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## krandall

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Here it is. I have ordered it but it hasn't come yet.
> 
> Amazon.com : Nutramax Proviable DC Capsules for Cats and Dogs, 30 Count : Pet Probiotic Nutritional Supplements : Pet Supplies


Thanks! Just ordered the 80 count... figured it would take at least that long to see any change.


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## KarMar

Jackie from Concrete said:


> I think part of the problems with online forums is that there is no eye contact or body language. Sometimes things get said in a way that is misunderstood and if one could see the person "talking" there would not be any misunderstanding.


Very true, which is why, in instances like this, it is important to take the way members have presented themselves in the past into account. It can provide a lot of context so that misunderstandings don't happen in the future (ie, Member XXXXX is often praised for their knowledge of certain topics and is generally thought of as a friend to other members. Maybe I am reading their post with an tone they did not intend.)

Side note: I am also very interested to see how the probiotic you mentioned works. I purchased one for our boys that has great Amazon reviews, but I haven't started them on it yet. Anyone around here know anything good or bad about Fidobiotic?


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

krandall said:


> Thanks! Just ordered the 80 count... figured it would take at least that long to see any change.


I only got the 30 count as I want to be sure she doesn't have some strange reaction. So hope it helps with the staining. Let me know if you see any change.


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## Nicm

Thanks for the rec I ordered too for Darla eyes! 

Nic Darla and Heidi


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

Karen - Have you seen any improvement in staining after using the Proviable for awhile? I've been giving it to Willow too. I'm not sure if I'm seeing any improvement, but it's not any worse. It might be a little bit better. Just not sure. I had her beard and mustache trimmed back a few days ago and it does look like the new growth is coming in white. She doesn't have the tear staining so much. I'm dealing with saliva staining. I'm also diligent in washing her face after eating.


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## krandall

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Karen - Have you seen any improvement in staining after using the Proviable for awhile? I've been giving it to Willow too. I'm not sure if I'm seeing any improvement, but it's not any worse. It might be a little bit better. Just not sure. I had her beard and mustache trimmed back a few days ago and it does look like the new growth is coming in white. She doesn't have the tear staining so much. I'm dealing with saliva staining. I'm also diligent in washing her face after eating.


Panda's is probably more saliva staining than tear staining also... here eyes actually tear less than my other two, and they don't tear much. But, no, I haven't seen any improvement yet with the Proviable. I've got a 90 day supply, and it's just another probiotic, so at worst, it's harmless. So I'll keep giving it to her until it's gone, and assess at that point!


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## FourPaws

Hi all:
Because I'm concerned about Chico's eye stain, I thought I'd go on the forum on the off-chance that I could get some advice and WOW! you folks are fantastic and all over it! I'm a little hesitant to tweak his food, give pro/prebiotics just yet because he does have a delicate stomach...and he's been fine, in that regard, lately (so if it ain't broke..).

His eye stain doesn't quite fit the patterns described above. It's one eye that is definitely staining more than the other, with the fur around the eye pinkish/rust-like. He itches it occasionally, though not in a nonstop/crazyboy way. The vet does have him on allergy pills 2X a day and is reluctant to up the dose, for which I respect her. And the pills seem to have alleviated other allergy symptoms (which she believes are seasonal).

Still, the pronounced eye stain in one eye only is new.(He is four.) Vet saw him 10 days ago and gave me ear drops to use when needed, to alleviate ear itching if skin looks patchy or irritated, because she wondered whether ear/eye-itching were cause/effect. But doesn't seem so. 

He looks a little miserable, my guy. Thoughts? Thanks all...so grateful for this generous forum.


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## Tux's Mom

FourPaws said:


> Hi all:
> Because I'm concerned about Chico's eye stain, I thought I'd go on the forum on the off-chance that I could get some advice and WOW! you folks are fantastic and all over it! I'm a little hesitant to tweak his food, give pro/prebiotics just yet because he does have a delicate stomach...and he's been fine, in that regard, lately (so if it ain't broke..).
> 
> His eye stain doesn't quite fit the patterns described above. It's one eye that is definitely staining more than the other, with the fur around the eye pinkish/rust-like. He itches it occasionally, though not in a nonstop/crazyboy way. The vet does have him on allergy pills 2X a day and is reluctant to up the dose, for which I respect her. And the pills seem to have alleviated other allergy symptoms (which she believes are seasonal).
> 
> Still, the pronounced eye stain in one eye only is new.(He is four.) Vet saw him 10 days ago and gave me ear drops to use when needed, to alleviate ear itching if skin looks patchy or irritated, because she wondered whether ear/eye-itching were cause/effect. But doesn't seem so.
> 
> He looks a little miserable, my guy. Thoughts? Thanks all...so grateful for this generous forum.


I would try to find a canine eye specialist. I would think if it were allergies then both eyes would be affected. I have no experience with this, but my first gut instinct would be an ingrown eyelash or hair that is unseen, an undetectable cyst under the skin, a tiny scratch on the eyeball (happened to my own eye), or just about anything that might need an ocular specialist.


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## FourPaws

YIKES! Good thoughts, all. Will pursue. LittleGuy just looks at me balefully and then digs the side of his head into the carpet , rubbing frantically. Gotta help him asap.

thank you!


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## krandall

I agree... it is NOT typical for a dog to suddenly develop eye staining period, and when it's just one eye, AND he's itching it too, I think an eye specialist is definitely in order. I think, since his other eye is fine, AND this one USED to be fine, if you get to the root of what's making his eye tear, the staining will go away too.


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## FourPaws

Thanks...poor LittleGuy...my heart is breaking for him...wish it were Monday already so I could get going. thanks, all.


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## Pucks104

I started Leo and Rex on Proviable-dc about 1.5 months ago. Leo's eye staining had flared up again. Rexy has had more of an issue with red staining in his beard. Rexy's beard is growing out without stains. There is a distinct line between the older growth that is stained and the newer growth that isn't and doesn't seem to be staining. Leo's eyes are no longer tearing this no eye stains. I order the Proviable from Amazon and so far am pleased with the results.


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## krandall

Pucks104 said:


> I started Leo and Rex on Proviable-dc about 1.5 months ago. Leo's eye staining had flared up again. Rexy has had more of an issue with red staining in his beard. Rexy's beard is growing out without stains. There is a distinct line between the older growth that is stained and the newer growth that isn't and doesn't seem to be staining. Leo's eyes are no longer tearing this no eye stains. I order the Proviable from Amazon and so far am pleased with the results.


Wish it had worked as well for me! Panda's staining isn't too bad anyway, but I really haven't seen any difference. I have the stuff, and it's a 90 day supply, so I'll use it at least until I run out, but so far, nuthin' here.


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## Pucks104

This is a close up of Rexy's muzzle. As you can see the new hair growth is coming in and is not staining. Since he is temporarily in a short cost I will trim away the stained growth before I start growing him back out.


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## Heather's

That's a pretty dramatic change! I started giving Scout & Truffles Proviable-DC last month. Scout gets a little staining in the corner of his left eye and it seems to be working here also.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

Willow is also on Proviable DC. I started her on it probably about a month or more ago. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but I do think perhaps I see a difference. It's hard to tell. I recently had her beard and mustache trimmed way back as it was so stained and dirty looking. I do think the new growth looks white. She also is a compulsive paw licker and her feet are also stained but it they don't look like they are getting worse and maybe even looking lighter. Her lady part is also somewhat stained but it doesn't look as bad either. I'm hoping it's not just wishful thinking on my part. I'm so glad to hear others are seeing a change.


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## krandall

Pucks104 said:


> This is a close up of Rexy's muzzle. As you can see the new hair growth is coming in and is not staining. Since he is temporarily in a short cost I will trim away the stained growth before I start growing him back out.


The interesting thing is that Panda also has a white ring of fur before the staining starts under her eyes... But that's not new, she has always been like that.


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## FourPaws

"Compulsive paw licker"....my vet thought allergies? we gave Chico a gentle powder treatment from vet (can't recall name) to calm down the itching..and he even used a cone for a while to help his paw heal...he's not licking anymore...maybe ask vet about that?


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## HavGracie

krandall said:


> The interesting thing is that Panda also has a white ring of fur before the staining starts under her eyes... But that's not new, she has always been like that.


Gracie's was like that too especially around her mouth. I had always attributed to the fact that it's new growth and hasn't been exposed to certain things, so hasn't had a chance to stain yet. Just my thoughts on it.....

I do have to say though, that since I've been feeding her Annamaet, she no longer has staining around her mouth. Her eyes, although they continue to get gunky, are much whiter than they have been.


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## Pucks104

Rexy's new growth has always stained quickly and doesn't seem to be doing that now. I will keep watching the grow out and see if the new growth stains. I'll update again in a couple of months.


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## Nicm

Well dang I ordered that product now Im hesitant to try it! Oh well cant hurt I guess, also Im changing foods too I think its gotta be diet, Ive read about Annameat but didn't see if it was grain free? Im thinking Im gonna try a little bag of Petcurean or Annameat..... if those are a failure Im going with Ziwipeak I don't care if its costly at this point Ha! My girls are very PICKY FINICKY eaters Im over it!

So glad we all can share what works what doesn't! But I really want to find that PERFECT probiotic for sure!!

Oh we took the girls to topsail NC beach just got in Saturday whew 8.5 hrs in the car not fun my girls did awesome though.. we went for 8 days lol wow my girls were LOVING every 2 mile walk 4xs a day now back in GA its hot and they are bored urghhhhh.............

Nic Darla N Heidi:smile2:


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## Pucks104

Nicm said:


> Well dang I ordered that product now Im hesitant to try it! Oh well cant hurt I guess, also Im changing foods too I think its gotta be diet, Ive read about Annameat but didn't see if it was grain free? Im thinking Im gonna try a little bag of Petcurean or Annameat..... if those are a failure Im going with Ziwipeak I don't care if its costly at this point Ha! My girls are very PICKY FINICKY eaters Im over it!
> 
> So glad we all can share what works what doesn't! But I really want to find that PERFECT probiotic for sure!!
> 
> Oh we took the girls to topsail NC beach just got in Saturday whew 8.5 hrs in the car not fun my girls did awesome though.. we went for 8 days lol wow my girls were LOVING every 2 mile walk 4xs a day now back in GA its hot and they are bored urghhhhh.............
> 
> Nic Darla N Heidi:smile2:


Wasn't Topsail Beach lovely! We definitely enjoyed our week there!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

FourPaws said:


> "Compulsive paw licker"....my vet thought allergies? we gave Chico a gentle powder treatment from vet (can't recall name) to calm down the itching..and he even used a cone for a while to help his paw heal...he's not licking anymore...maybe ask vet about that?


I have had the vet look at her feet. He didn't see anything wrong but feels that it's caused by the feet being damp frequently. I've tried some wipes and some spray that is supposed to help with itching, but it seems to make her lick them more. Trying to like the stuff off I think. We spent almost 2 weeks in the eastern part of our state on a summer camping trip. I noticed that when we were there she stopped a lot of the compulsive licking. It's quite a bit dryer and warmer in that part of our state than it is in the Pacific NW where we live. I have a feeling that it's our continual damp weather or dewy grass that is the cause.


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## FourPaws

Well, consider your priorities. To me, that's a sign that it's time to move! (just kidding. really.)


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

FourPaws said:


> Well, consider your priorities. To me, that's a sign that it's time to move! (just kidding. really.)


:laugh2: Good idea!


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## RedSoxFan

Hi all, on the subject of Tear Staining - I have a question for you. We have a chocolate havanese and she's espresso in color. Therefore, we are not concerned in the least with the appearance of tear staining. We hardly see the tearing. She's 5 months old now. My question is ... Is it normal for her to have consistent tear stains or eye discharge as a puppy? I'm assuming that she's teething and maybe that causes it. But I don't want to assume - I'd rather ask the experts. 

We feed her filtered water (always) and she's on a probiotic. The tear staining while not visible does come with a smell if not cleaned regularly. Your feedback is always appreciated. Thanks.


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## Tux's Mom

One thing you might watch is even the teeniest tiniest hair will cause the eye to product a protective "coating" of icky muck around the hair. I am always looking at Tux's eyes to make sure there are no hairs floating on or sticking into his eyes. If you don't have a damp cloth handy, you can use your fingers to gently move hair from around his eyes WITHOUT touching his eyes. Keep your fingers out of his eyes as that could cause infection. If that doesn't help, I would certainly call the vet and see what they say.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

I also clean Willow's eyes twice daily. I use a cosmetic wipe (NOT the kind that are pre-moistened) and make sure I get all the little hairs out of her eyes if she has any.


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## Heather's

RedSoxFan said:


> Hi all, on the subject of Tear Staining - I have a question for you. We have a chocolate havanese and she's espresso in color. Therefore, we are not concerned in the least with the appearance of tear staining. We hardly see the tearing. She's 5 months old now. My question is ... Is it normal for her to have consistent tear stains or eye discharge as a puppy? I'm assuming that she's teething and maybe that causes it. But I don't want to assume - I'd rather ask the experts.
> 
> We feed her filtered water (always) and she's on a probiotic. The tear staining while not visible does come with a smell if not cleaned regularly. Your feedback is always appreciated. Thanks.


I also have a chocolate havanese. Her hair has never been cut around her eyes. Every day I use the Chris Christensen face & feet comb to clean the corner of her eyes. I also wipe the corners with warm water. The area gets moist, but there is no staining. Scout had tear staining on one eye a few years ago. I started giving them Proviable-DC daily and Scout's staining cleared up. Sometimes I buy Earth Bath eye wipes too.


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## Lisa T.

I was wondering for those who use Proviable DC, is it still working for the tear stains. Rudy has been drinking only filtered water and he still has tear stains. I tried Angel Eyes and it doesn’t help either. I I clean his eyes everyday and that doesn’t help. I stopped giving him chicken to see if it was an allergic reaction and there was no change. I’m going to start adding a teaspoon of plain pumpkin to his food to help with his anal glands. Any suggestions?
Thanks.


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## Heather's

I still give Proviable DC to my two and it seems to still be working. Scout is a light color so I would notice on him if it didn't work. I really can't be sure with Truffles since she is a dark color. Her eyes water, but I think it's because he hair is long and it's difficult to keep it out of her eyes. I've had both there teeth cleaned a few weeks ago. Scout had an abscess on the upper right and left last molar. They were extracted and he was antibiotics for five days. Truffles had one abscess on the last upper molar that was extracted. The teeth looked ok, but on the x-ray the abscess was around the root. I now wonder if staining could possibly be caused by dental issues?


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## krandall

I still use Proviable DC for Panda too. She has absolutely NO tear staining any more. Every once in a while, I consider taking her off it to "see what will happen", but then I think about how long it took to grow the stains out, and... Nah... I keep her on it! LOL!

Below is a photo of her before I started using Proviable, and one from today. The difference ins remarkable. ...Enough so that my vet has recommended Proviable to other people with dogs with problems with tear staining.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

Wow, Karen. What a difference. I wish I could say the same for Willow. However it is the beard staining that I've been dealing with. I've been using a beard stain removal solution by Eye Envy. That and washing her face after every meal and after a bully stick session. I think it has helped but still not perfect. Here is a picture showing her staining.


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## Tux's Mom

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Wow, Karen. What a difference. I wish I could say the same for Willow. However it is the beard staining that I've been dealing with. I've been using a beard stain removal solution by Eye Envy. That and washing her face after every meal and after a bully stick session. I think it has helped but still not perfect. Here is a picture showing her staining.


If only Clairol Hair Color held so well. Looks like bully sticks and dog food get rid of that stubborn white and grey. LOL


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## Cmward

Tux's Mom said:


> If only Clairol Hair Color held so well. Looks like bully sticks and dog food get rid of that stubborn white and grey. LOL


How do you keep Tux's cute little face and beard so white?


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## Tux's Mom

Cmward said:


> How do you keep Tux's cute little face and beard so white?


Flat white latex paint. Just kidding! I think its his diet. His freeze dried primal nuggets don't have any added colors, so it's kind of a dusty light dirt color. He eats it dry and crumbled into bites so it doesn't smear all over his face. He drinks goat milk. His treats are so tiny they don't get on his face. I feed him strawberries bites (two tiny ones a day when we fix cereal) by hand because he has to perform for them. I've seen some of those chew things and they look like they have some sort of artificial coloring on them. I've never bought them cause they look messy. Tux might have a clean face, but he's probably not as happy as he would be with a really messy bone. There is already bone meal in his dinner nuggets.


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## krandall

A lot of people find that beard staining can be resolved with a diet change. The fact that her feet are also stained make me strongly suspect that the bully sticks are the culprit. They would be in contact for both her feet and beard for a prolonged period as she chews on them.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

krandall said:


> A lot of people find that beard staining can be resolved with a diet change. The fact that her feet are also stained make me strongly suspect that the bully sticks are the culprit. They would be in contact for both her feet and beard for a prolonged period as she chews on them.


Actually, I think Willow's feet are stained as she licks them A LOT! It's not so bad during the summer months when it's dryer. I talked to the vet about her licking the last checkup and he suggested trying a light dose of Apoquel during the wet months and it does seem to help. She hasn't been licking nearly as much. However, I hope I'm not doing her harm with the drug. There's pros and cons.

I think I'll start another thread asking for educated opinions on Apoquel.


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## Cmward

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Actually, I think Willow's feet are stained as she licks them A LOT! It's not so bad during the summer months when it's dryer. I talked to the vet about her licking the last checkup and he suggested trying a light dose of Apoquel during the wet months and it does seem to help. She hasn't been licking nearly as much. However, I hope I'm not doing her harm with the drug. There's pros and cons.
> 
> I think I'll start another thread asking for educated opinions on Apoquel.


If they are stained from licking she probably has systemic yeast, that is what we were told about Apollo. We tried all kinds of things to rid him of the yeasty beasts it can be a lifelong battle. I really like Nature's Farmacy Probiotic Max powder and we used medicated shampoos for topical.


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## EvaE1izabeth

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Wow, Karen. What a difference. I wish I could say the same for Willow. However it is the beard staining that I've been dealing with. I've been using a beard stain removal solution by Eye Envy. That and washing her face after every meal and after a bully stick session. I think it has helped but still not perfect. Here is a picture showing her staining.


If it's her beard, could it be minerals in the water? My daughter and I both have reddish-gold hair and when we moved we both noticed less of a red cast in our hair color. I'm convinced it's the water softener and filters in our new house, and the high iron content where we lived before. Suddenly all of my shampoo and conditioner worked like a dream, and my daughter's hair was especially voluminous and shiny, too. So, it could also be that we had dirty, product build up and now we have clean hair


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

EvaE1izabeth said:


> If it's her beard, could it be minerals in the water? My daughter and I both have reddish-gold hair and when we moved we both noticed less of a red cast in our hair color. I'm convinced it's the water softener and filters in our new house, and the high iron content where we lived before. Suddenly all of my shampoo and conditioner worked like a dream, and my daughter's hair was especially voluminous and shiny, too. So, it could also be that we had dirty, product build up and now we have clean hair


I've thought about the water too but we do have a house filter on our water coming in from the well plus I use a Zerowater pitcher to filter the water again. Since her feet get stained, I think it's something in her saliva.


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## Tux's Mom

Our first Havanese had life-long foot licking problems and a few skin lesions on her belly. They at first diagnosed Staph. Wrong. We did everything we could to solve the issue. (Tons of diet trials, antibiotics, $1200 of allergy tests, Avantix (which nearly killed her), you name it). Finally one smart vet (we had just moved to a different state), did a bunch of tests and sent them out of state for analysis and found out it was a particular bacteria that none of the prior antibiotics she had been prescribed would resolve. I can't remember the bacterium, but the new antibiotic saved her. Poor thing it took 11 YEARS for the right veterinarian to get it right. I felt sick that she suffered for so long for no good reason.

You may have to search the web, for a specialist in canine bacterial infections. 

As far as the beard staining, if the bully stick is reddish in color (which a lot of them are) I would think that is the cause of the staining.


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## Marni

One of the many hav breeders I have bothered believed the mouth staining is caused by bacteria that grows when the beard stays wet. She puts her water in bottles on stands made of PVC pipe. She would think that drying the dogs face would be more important than a wash. I have noticed that though Zoey and Kosmo have no staining around the mouth, little Joy has a little and she does seem to dunk her face in the bowl when she drinks. I dry her face when I notice. She is crazy in love with the blow dryer.


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## Melissa Brill

I didn't get the Proviable for Perry (the price still seemed kind of high) but I did get a good human quality probiotic. You can't see his tear stains but the eye gunk and it matting down his face (despite trying to wash it which he hated) was bad. With the probiotic every day the tearing isn't completely gone, but the majority of the eye gunk is, so it's much more manageable to just wipe his face with my hand once or twice a day.


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## Lisa T.

How long to it take to see results?


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## Melissa Brill

*how long*



Lisa T. said:


> How long to it take to see results?


I started the probiotic in mid-January and noticed it was much better in less than a month, probably just a couple of weeks. I don't have a staining issue (Perry is black), so it was more how much he was tearing and gunky and how bad. Like I said, he does still tear, but not nearly as bad.


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## krandall

Melissa Brill said:


> I didn't get the Proviable for Perry (the price still seemed kind of high) but I did get a good human quality probiotic. You can't see his tear stains but the eye gunk and it matting down his face (despite trying to wash it which he hated) was bad. With the probiotic every day the tearing isn't completely gone, but the majority of the eye gunk is, so it's much more manageable to just wipe his face with my hand once or twice a day.


I don't think any probiotic works though, My dogs are ALWAYS on a good quality, correct strength probiotic, and that didn't stop Panda from staining. The Proviable made it go away. I don't know why and I don't know the difference. But I don't think it's a coincidence that so many of us have had success with that SPECIFIC brand, when we have always used other probiotics.


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## krandall

Lisa T. said:


> How long to it take to see results?


I started the Proviable in Sept., and it was Jan. before I was absolutely certain it was growing out. I THOUGHT it was working... but that was how long it took for me to be sure.

Also, Panda has never had a lot of tearing, so that really wasn't the issue. I'm not sure why she stained so badly.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

Marni said:


> One of the many hav breeders I have bothered believed the mouth staining is caused by bacteria that grows when the beard stays wet. She puts her water in bottles on stands made of PVC pipe. She would think that drying the dogs face would be more important than a wash. I have noticed that though Zoey and Kosmo have no staining around the mouth, little Joy has a little and she does seem to dunk her face in the bowl when she drinks. I dry her face when I notice. She is crazy in love with the blow dryer.


Willow does use a water bottle for water. I do towel dry her face after washing but she hates the hair dryer. I guess I should try it though.


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## Marni

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Willow does use a water bottle for water. I do towel dry her face after washing but she hates the hair dryer. I guess I should try it though.


Not if she hates it, Sweetheart. Willow is lovely just as she is.:wink2:


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## krandall

Marni said:


> Not if she hates it, Sweetheart. Willow is lovely just as she is.:wink2:


I agree! She doesn't care AT ALL that her hair is stained!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

krandall said:


> I agree! She doesn't care AT ALL that her hair is stained!


I know. It's just vanity on my part!


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## Melissa Brill

*specific*



krandall said:


> I started the Proviable in Sept., and it was Jan. before I was absolutely certain it was growing out. I THOUGHT it was working... but that was how long it took for me to be sure.
> 
> Also, Panda has never had a lot of tearing, so that really wasn't the issue. I'm not sure why she stained so badly.


Interesting, I may need to try it (will see if the level of tears while he's on his current probiotic is dimished enough or if we should add the other one). There were two reasons I didn't go with the proviable - (1) price - it's so much more expensive than the other high quality probiotics and (2) they're so vague on the numbers and descriptions compared to the one I did end up getting. However, it might be worth a try to see if that improves things even more. Will look at getting it our next trip to the US and experimenting.


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## krandall

Melissa Brill said:


> Interesting, I may need to try it (will see if the level of tears while he's on his current probiotic is dimished enough or if we should add the other one). There were two reasons I didn't go with the proviable - (1) price - it's so much more expensive than the other high quality probiotics and (2) they're so vague on the numbers and descriptions compared to the one I did end up getting. However, it might be worth a try to see if that improves things even more. Will look at getting it our next trip to the US and experimenting.


It wouldn't be my first choice if I were looking for a probiotic for gut health. I honestly have no idea what's in it that helps with the eye staining, and that, of course, isn't what they sell it for. I just know it worked for Panda, and has for a number of other dogs with eye staining.


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## abi38

I tried Proviable DC and it didn't work for Zelda. Nor filtered water and stainless steel bowls. Her stain is not the reddish color one, just a darker shade of brown and mostly just wetness. Daily face washing also did not help

The eye stain supplement seemed to help a little. I am using Angel Eye non antibiotic stuffs. Instead of washing her face, I use a tissue to dry up the fur as much as I can, brush it out and apply liberally the eye envy powder. What I learned is it is all about the wetness for her. The powder keeps her fur dry and that reduced staining. The avator picture is at her worst time after a face wash. I think face washing make the whole face wet and exaggerate the stain even more, and never allow the fur to dry up completely. I only do a face wash once in a while if I feel like it is needed.

She does have a little muzzle staining but it doesn't bother me so I don't do anything about it. It looks more natural 

Another interesting thing is she only has real problem of staining out of one eye.Makes me wonder if her tear duct in one eye just does not drain as well.


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## krandall

Yup! For sure, there is no one answer for every dog!


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## ShamaMama

We still swear by Vet Classics Tear Stain Supplement.

We got it at the vet's office. Ours looks like this . . .

https://cdn3.volusion.com/qxyca.qbdtq/v/vspfiles/photos/17446-2.jpg?1464100925

When I googled it, however, it seems the packaging may have changed.


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