# IF IT'S NOT COVID, IT'S SOMETHING ELSE - SHINGLES



## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Our oldest daughter, JoJoMomi, went to the E.R. this morning with a severe rash on her face. Her god daughter in Belgium is an M.D. there and told her to go in immediately because the rash was close to one of her eyes. Well DD texted us and she has been diagnosed with Shingles! :frusty: E.R. staff is concerned about losing sight in her one eye. She will see an eye specialist early next week. *Shingles and Covid are in no way connected.

Anyone on this list who has had Shingles and can tell me what to expect?

Ricky's Popi


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Oh no! DH had shingles when he was pretty young. He had a lot of nerve pain. Generally he is healthy and active, and was at the time. However, he was working full time remotely in a European time zone while also going to school full time, and our kids were 2 and 3 years old. He didn’t take much time off work, but he never does. I remember that the nerve pain lasted quite a while, even when he was functioning normally and otherwise recovered. He didn’t have a rash on his face at all, and he didn’t have any scarring or anything. They gave him the shingles vaccine since it can help the symptoms to be less severe. I’ll ask him to post.


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## stephsu (Apr 27, 2020)

So sorry. My sister had it but not on her face. She said it was quite painful but it did get better with time and meds. A good friend had it a few years ago and did have issues or concerns with her eyes. She was going to NYC to see an eye Dr. I will ask her if she has any advice. Hope she is better soon with as little discomfort as possible.


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## stephsu (Apr 27, 2020)

She just called me and said to see an eye specialist IMMEDIATELY. She got a special eye gel and time was of the essence. She did have some permanent eye damage so she said DO NOT WAIT. She did feel it in her eye, like there was a scratch on her eye. If she doesn't feel it in her eye then that's a good thing. See if she can be seen sooner, maybe a friend of a friend or something can help her.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Oh no! Shingles is MISERABLE!!! (and yes, unfortunately, I am speaking from personal experience) It is extremely painful, especially if you don't get on the antivirals ASAP. Hopefully, they did that at the ER. If I remember right, it is either Tamiflu, or something very similar. (it was a long time ago now. 

Because it is nerve pain, it does not, unfortunately, respond to normal painkillers well. They gave me Percocet to start with, which I hate taking anyway, for all the obvious reasons. Not only did it have all the normal side effects, but it did NOTHING for the pain. Then they gave me something specifically for nerve pain. Lyrica, I think? (not sure of that name either) It took a bit of time to get into my system, but that helped a lot more. The only down side was it did make me sleepy. But I didn't feel like doing much anyway.

Mine was on the back of my head and down my neck, though, so there was no eye involvement. So I have no experience with that. I just couldn't put my head down to sleep! I sure hope she is OK! It really does sound like she should be seen by someone ASAP...


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## aroq (Dec 14, 2018)

Will chime in that yes, shingles is absolutely no fun, As my wife said, I had it, and taking the medications helped me quite a bit. Mine was lower, going from my upper chest to under my arm, but the pain was like needles in my chest. I generally am pretty pain tolerant, but the intense needling pain was disabling, but thankfully that only lasted a few days, then it was much more manageable pain for me. I couldn't drive with the drugs, and I had a 30 minute commute at the time, so I remember driving more carefully than I probably ever have in my life so that my seat belt wouldn't pull against it. Once I was at work I could take medication and work without too much frustration. They put me on acyclovir (an antiviral) and some opiates for pain, but I would agree with Karen that getting the antivirals started asap is a very good idea.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Occasionally a patient in the hospital would develop shingles. They would need to be placed in isolation to prevent any spread of the varicella zoster virus. I think now most people have had chickenpox or received the vaccine. Something important to think about if you have not had chickenpox. As Karen mentioned the antivirals need to be started as soon as possible.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Heather's said:


> Occasionally a patient in the hospital would develop shingles. They would need to be placed in isolation to prevent any spread of the varicella zoster virus. I think now most people have had chickenpox or received the vaccine. Something important to think about if you have not had chickenpox. As Karen mentioned the antivirals need to be started as soon as possible.


Were they placed in isolation because they were being cautious of other people in the hospital? When DH had shingles, he wasn't restricted in any way. Our kids hadn't finished their courses of chicken pox vaccines and I don't remember there being any concern about it being passed to them. I wonder if this is unusual.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thank you to all of you who responded on this thread and PM's to me. This is a tough time for all of us with the Covid virus and then with associated complications - personal health issues, loss of income, bored children at home, gaining weight, etc. It is a great comfort to me for the support and patience of the HF family. THANK YOU!

Here is an update. I talked to DD this afternoon about 4pm, about 4 hours after she had been released from the E.R.
- The E.R. was VERY restrictive with admittance. They have Covid at their facility! DD said she has never seen the like.
- They gave her prescription drugs for anti-viral, opioids. and ointment for her eye.
- she has absolutely no pain at this time, so she is not using the opioid
- she has developed an irritation in her eye this afternoon. She doesn't know if it is because of the virus or reaction to the eye ointment she has been using this afternoon. She has assured me that she will continue to monitor and return to the E.R. if it gets worse.
- She is contagious at this time. Pustules are developing on her face. She can infect those who have not had chickenpox with chickenpox. She will continue to be contagious until the pustules scb over in about 7 -10 days. Momi and Popi have both had chickenpox as children and we had shingles vaccine about 15 years ago. I need to check to see if we need boosters at this time.
- Because of her position at the university where she works, she has a direct 24/7 line to the president of the U. The pres. says she should not come back to work without a doctor's release. The pres. told her the last thing she needs right now is a chickenpox outbreak on campus on top of the Covid situation. This would not look good in the press. The pres. said DD can work from home if she feels like it, otherwise play it smart.
- DD is in good spirits with a good attitude. She said she is more concerned about Momi and Popi than her situation. She said at this time she wants to continue working, from home (she loves her job)
- Just texted her. She is feeling optimistic. She belongs to the highest rated health insurance/HMO in the U.S. She says her caretakers are all over this and know what needs to be done plus she has her 28 y.o. god -daughter M.D. who is watching over her from afar. She says she has a huge support group and that makes her feel good.

I am annoyed that DD was not given a Covid test when admitted to the E.R. They did give her a questionnaire and took her temp. (which was normal) but still it would have taken two minutes to give her the C-19 test. Why Not?
@aroq you made me LOL :laugh: with your avatar, 'EvaE's errand boy" I needed that! It sounds like my household! It only gets worse as you age up and DW becomes more...........assertive. :wink2:

Ricky's Popi


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear your DD has shingles. It sounds like she is getting the best of care. Hoping she feels better after starting the antivirals. Now she just needs to get lot's of rest. I remember my father had shingles on his leg and it was pretty uncomfortable. This is a good reminder that I need to get that shingle vaccine!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Were they placed in isolation because they were being cautious of other people in the hospital? When DH had shingles, he wasn't restricted in any way. Our kids hadn't finished their courses of chicken pox vaccines and I don't remember there being any concern about it being passed to them. I wonder if this is unusual.


Hospitals have infection control protocols to prevent the spread of anything contagious to others. As Popi mentioned the blistered rash is considered active and can spread the virus until it is dry and scabbed just like chicken pox.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Heather's said:


> Hospitals have infection control protocols to prevent the spread of anything contagious to others. As Popi mentioned the blistered rash is considered active and can spread the virus until it is dry and scabbed just like chicken pox.


Ah, that reminded me, he did have to keep it covered until it was dry and scabbed. It would be hard to keep a rash presenting on the face covered, though.

Hopefully your daughter will be able to take the break she needs, and that all of the recent working from home will make it easier for her to to do so when she's ready.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Sorry to hear about your daughter, Popi. If your daughter starts feeling the nerve pain she should definitely ask her doctor for something like Lyrica or Neurontin. It will help a lot. I would also encourage you and Momi to get the newer Shingles vaccine called Shingrix. It is a lot better than the old vaccine and will give you better protection against getting Shingles or at least a milder case if you do get it.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

So sorry, Popi! I expect to hear the latest update at the play date starting in 80 minutes.


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

Yes, I would encourage you to get the new shingles shot as well (Shingrix). We had the older version, but our doctor urged us to get the new shot (it's a series of two). It is much more effective.


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## Janet (Feb 19, 2007)

I got a shingles vaccine, but then last year I had a case of shingles. It was pretty mild, which is likely due to having had the vaccine. My doctor suggested getting the newer vaccine Shingrex which is apparently more effective than the older one.

Janet


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Janet said:


> I got a shingles vaccine, but then last year I had a case of shingles. It was pretty mild, which is likely due to having had the vaccine. My doctor suggested getting the newer vaccine Shingrex which is apparently more effective than the older one.
> 
> Janet


It can also be hard to find though. I've been on a waiting list for it for a while.


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## Cassandra (Dec 29, 2015)

Ditto on waiting lists for the updated shingles shot..same with the “senior flu” shot...it was in short supply and we had to get the regular one instead. I shudder to think what will happen when and if we get a coronavirus vaccination. We watched “Contagion” the other night and when they finally got the vaccine, they had a lottery by birthdate system to distribute it..like the old selective service lottery. People who drew a low number were in a bad way...by the way, I do not recommend the movie for the faint at heart..too realistic for fiction.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Yesterday, Sunday was a VERY stressful day for me, despite the virtual play date (thanks Mama of Shama).

Early Sunday morning, DD sent me a picture of her face. She looked terrible! I called immediately. DD said she took my advice on Saturday and called/sent pictures to the E.R. which treated her on Friday. An E.R. doctor talked with her and assured her she was getting the most advanced medications for this stage of her infection. He said an eye specialist would reach out to her this next Tuesday. He said that she should return to the E.R. if she experienced blurred vision and/or her eye started turning red. She asked doctor about a release to return to work and doctor said no way. He said the staff will monitor her condition over the next week and write a release when appropriate, but not now. He couldn't predict when that might be. Momi called her again Sunday afternoon to check on her and her condition was unchanged - swollen, red face with tiny blisters on the right side and neck and her right eye 75% swollen shut.

DD. texted me this morning with photos. Horrible! I called immediately. She was in good spirits, had just taken a shower and washed her hair, and she felt rejuvenated. She said that she was not in constant pain but periodically she felt a shooting pain through the nerve endings in her right neck and face. She found this sensation more annoying than painful. I could see her right eye was 75/80% swollen shut, but she assures me the white of the eye was definitely not red. She is getting lots of rest and her employer is ordering her to not work, either at the office or from home for the rest of this week. She said that she is taking three medications prescribed by her doctor - an antiviral in tablet form, Ibuprofen (prescribed at higher than normal rates supervised by her doctor) for swelling and pain, and an eye ointment. We will continue to give her morale support from our end but in reality she is calming me more than I am calming her!

Now if THAT wasn't enough for a stressful Sunday................our younger DD and her partner (they are both medical professionals) had taken her beloved 75 pound Lab, Bowowzer, to visit his father at home who was recovering from a stroke. The Bowowzer is a laid back, gentle giant. He is a non-aggressive good guy. As DD was taking him out of the car. A Pit Bull, who was off leash, came running from a yard across the street and put Bowowzer in a death hold on his neck and wouldn't let go. DD is very devoted to her dog. She reacted immediately and grabbed the P.B. in a bear hug but the dog still wouldn't let go. Then she blew into the P.B.'s nose and that caused him to release and allow the Bowowzer to run away. Bowowzer appears to be fine with a laceration on his ear but DD suffered bites to her hands. Momi talked to her this morning and she is still traumatized by what happened. I am urging her to contact Animal Regulation to report the incident. This is really upsetting to me! Yes, what DD did by grabbing the P.B. was not a wise thing to do, she admits that. But she felt the P.B. was attempting to kill her dog who she loves dearly and she will put her life on the line for her dog. BUT, I have to admire her True Grit, courage, loyalty, and ability to think under pressure and stress.

If Popi could only be as good as his daughters.

Ricky's Popi


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

How horrible for your younger DD! Who knows what you'll do when a pit bull attacks your sweet dog? I know I kind of froze when the Australian Shepherd attacked Shama at our obedience class. I was impressed your DD thought of blowing in his face. Of course, he could have released his grip on her dog only to bite her face - shudder! Did the pit bull's owner appear in this story? The incident definitely needs to be reported IMHO.

Here's the link to the Shama skirmish story which I just reread and which may interest people who didn't know us then ...

https://www.havaneseforum.com/7-training-tips-advice/121081-skirmish.html

I'm sorry to hear that your older DD is still suffering. It sounds like she is receiving good medical care and has an amazing attitude.

Hang in there, Popi! Better days are coming!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

My yorkie was attacked by an off leash pit bull in our neighborhood while I was walking him down our street. A dog attack is a very scary thing!!!! I tried to pick up my yorkie but was not fast enough. I also had my winter coat and gloves on which made it harder. The pit bull had my yorkie in his mouth and was shaking him. It was horrible. The neighbor finally got her dog to let go. My yorkie had several bleeding puncture wounds but luckily that was all. If the owner had not gotten there when she did I fear what would have happened. Since then I always have a huge walking stick with me and some sort of OC spray. I think it is good to have the spray on you at all times because you never know when this could happen. I saw a YouTube recently where a couple and their child was leaving church and an off leash pit bull went after their child. Good to have some self defense spray on you always.

Sorry Ricky’s Popi for all you are going through. ShamaMama, that sounds like a scary experience too. Glad that Shama was not injured physically but I imagine it was a very scary experience for both of you.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm sorry that you and your wife had such a stressful weekend. Hoping the medications start to help your daughter feel better soon. Thankfully your other daughter was not injured by the pit bull.That must have been a terribly scary experience. I would definitely report it to Animal Control. Years ago my friend had a beautiful red Chow which I was frightened to be around. Everyone I worked with thought it was funny. One day the dog attacked the owner and another friend. It was terrible scene in the ER. 
I am very cautious around large dogs after seeing what can happen.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Heather's said:


> I'm sorry that you and your wife had such a stressful weekend. Hoping the medications start to help your daughter feel better soon. Thankfully your other daughter was not injured by the pit bull.That must have been a terribly scary experience. I would definitely report it to Animal Control. Years ago my friend had a beautiful red Chow which I was frightened to be around. Everyone I worked with thought it was funny. One day the dog attacked the owner and another friend. It was terrible scene in the ER.
> I am very cautious around large dogs after seeing what can happen.


Small dogs can also be aggressive which can pose a threat to another small dog. I don't like a strange dog of any size getting near my dog. In one of my other dog forums, a woman had two chihuahuas. One has become very aggressive and attacked her other dog who consequently lost an eye. She is now trying to rehome it as it is too dangerous to have them together. In our area, reporting a dog to Animal Control does nothing unless a human is attacked. They do not seem to care about dogs attacking other dogs. However, in other areas this is hopefully different.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm so sorry, Popi! Since your daughter was bitten, even in trying to remove the dog from HER dog, this should DEFINITELY be reposted. The dog is dangerous, and most municipalities have a "two strike" rule on dog bites on humans. It should go on the record. No way is that OK. I'm REALLY glad they are both mostly OK, and that she didn't get her face ripped off.

...and yeah, we ALL do crazy things in the heat of the moment when a loved one, human OR animal is in grave danger!


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## stephsu (Apr 27, 2020)

That is SO scary. I am glad she is OK. I hope you and your family have a better week!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> How horrible for your younger DD! Who knows what you'll do when a pit bull attacks your sweet dog? I know I kind of froze when the Australian Shepherd attacked Shama at our obedience class. I was impressed your DD thought of blowing in his face. Of course, he could have released his grip on her dog only to bite her face - shudder! Did the pit bull's owner appear in this story? The incident definitely needs to be reported IMHO.
> 
> Here's the link to the Shama skirmish story which I just reread and which may interest people who didn't know us then ...
> 
> ...


I was involved in this thread at the time and it was still interesting reading back through it. I'm glad to see I still stand by what I said then. (except for mis-reading that it was a GSD in the beginning)


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

When it rains it pours, right? I hope you have a better week! 

I was also really impressed that your daughter thought to blow on his face, but it didn’t occur to me, as ShamaMama said, that he could have bitten her as a result! She is tough! 

You raised strong daughters, and you are a great, supportive dad.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

*UPDATE*

SHINGLES:

DD #1 had a tele-appointment with an eye specialist yesterday. She sent current photos to the specialist. She has a large blister at the corner of her right eye. Specialist said "so far so good." He said that medications prescribed by the E.R. doctor were doing their job and no change in medication is needed. The white of her eye is not red, she has no intense pain in the eye, and she has no blurry vision. The specialist advised to continue the current medication protocol and call immediately if conditions should change with her eye, but at this time, he feels there is no threat to her vision now or in the future.

DD is taking an antiviral, Ibuprofen for pain and swelling in higher than recommended dosage supervised by her attending physician, and an eye ointment.

She sent me photos this morning and she is looking much better with less swelling and redness. She is feeling pretty good, doing a little cooking, but is still getting lots of bedrest. I feel encouraged.

PIT BULL ATTACK:

DD #2 had a tele-appointment with her PCP yesterday because the hand that was bitten by the Pit Bull was quite swollen. Her PCP said they would stitch up her hand if she wanted. DD declined. PCP prescribed an antibiotic which she is now taking. PCP said she should be fine but call if her condition changes.

A neighbor observed the attack and came over to assist. That neighbor called Animal Regulation immediately after the attack. Animal Reg. called DD yesterday to get a report. Animal Reg. told her:

-Animal Reg. had visited the Pit Bull owner home earlier that day
-Pit Bull vaccinations for rabies is up to date
- There has been no reported previous complaints about this particular dog
- Animal Reg. is putting the dog in a 10 day quarantine to monitor the dogs health
- Pit Bull owners are being required to attend and pay for a County approved training program. Trainers will determine and recommend if the dog and owners are capable of integration into the neighborhood.
- Animal Reg. said they would assist DD in filing a legal complaint, but recommended against it since the dog was a first time offender as far as Animal Reg. was concerned. DD declined.
- This dog will have a permanent record on file. A second offense will result in serious consequences for the dog and owner

I am impressed how County Animal Regulation has handled this. DD is suffering PTSD from the incident. We are giving her support. She went back to work yesterday, she is very busy, which I think is good for her.

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> SHINGLES:
> 
> DD #1 had a tele-appointment with an eye specialist yesterday. She sent current photos to the specialist. She has a large blister at the corner of her right eye. Specialist said "so far so good." He said that medications prescribed by the E.R. doctor were doing their job and no change in medication is needed. The white of her eye is not red, she has no intense pain in the eye, and she has no blurry vision. The specialist advised to continue the current medication protocol and call immediately if conditions should change with her eye, but at this time, he feels there is no threat to her vision now or in the future.
> 
> ...


I am so glad that the neighbor reported it, and took the decision out of your daughters hands. It needed to be done, but I know your daughter had othe concerns on her mind. I am ALSO glad to see that animal control took it seriously and acted completely appropriately. A single incident COULD be a single incident. Maybe. A two strike dog that bites humans for ANY reason is a dangerous animal, and IMO needs to be euthanized if it can't be kept COMPLETELY under control and ALWAYS on the owners property. Which is almost never possible. The next time could be a kid's throat.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I’m so glad they have a system in place to provide training for the family. For the sake of the dog, and everyone in the neighborhood, I hope the owners truly take advantage of it.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I'm so glad they have a system in place to provide training for the family. ..........I hope the owners truly take advantage of it.


The family has no choice, they MUST take the training and have the trainer sign off on them with report to the County. I don't know the specific details, but I know it must be done quickly. I think this is a very innovative and pragmatic approach. Maybe everyone should be required to complete this training when getting a license for their dog. BTW, I don't know if this dog was licensed or not, but I can assure you that it will be licensed and chipped from now on! Ricky is licensed and chipped (I really need to update our current address). I urge everyone on HF has their dog(s) licensed and chipped.

It is unclear how this Pit Bull escaped from the yard. DD did not see it coming until it was on top of them. It is not clear how the dog was returned to the home, but the assisting neighbor from next door identified the dog and where it lived (across the street).

Ricky's Popi


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> The family has no choice, they MUST take the training and have the trainer sign off on them with report to the County. I don't know the specific details, but I know it must be done quickly. I think this is a very innovative and pragmatic approach. Maybe everyone should be required to complete this training when getting a license for their dog. BTW, I don't know if this dog was licensed or not, but I can assure you that it will be licensed and chipped from now on! Ricky is licensed and chipped (I really need to update our current address). I urge everyone on HF has their dog(s) licensed and chipped.
> 
> It is unclear how this Pit Bull escaped from the yard. DD did not see it coming until it was on top of them. It is not clear how the dog was returned to the home, but the assisting neighbor from next door identified the dog and where it lived (across the street).
> 
> Ricky's Popi


By taking advantage of it, I meant not treating it like traffic school. It's an opportunity to really learn how to manage their dog, and I hope that they don't just go through the motions to fulfill their legal obligation. I'm glad the city has this program.


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

My close friend had the shingles. She said it was extremely painful. However, she was in her 50's when this happened. Her recovery time as slow. I am sorry to hear this but stay positive and we hope she has a speedy recovery.


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

Dogs that have a bite impulse are extremely dangerous and unpredictable. They are a threat to their owners, other adults, children, and other animals. During the six years that we had Brookie (a mixed breed Havanese puppy), nothing was permanently successful - therapy, training, medication, etc. She was sweet but also aggressive and prone to unprovoked biting. I will never forgot the day that she attacked Milo; I think she might have killed him if I hadn't been able to separate them. Putting her to sleep was the only responsible alternative. I still think of her every day. Please report all biting dogs and follow up on the report.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Milo's Mom said:


> Dogs that have a bite impulse are extremely dangerous and unpredictable. They are a threat to their owners, other adults, children, and other animals. During the six years that we had Brookie (a mixed breed Havanese puppy), nothing was permanently successful - therapy, training, medication, etc. She was sweet but also aggressive and prone to unprovoked biting. I will never forgot the day that she attacked Milo; I think she might have killed him if I hadn't been able to separate them. Putting her to sleep was the only responsible alternative. I still think of her every day. Please report all biting dogs and follow up on the report.


Oh, I remember HOW hard you worked to try to help her. It was absolutely heartbreaking to watch you struggle, trying EVERYTHING you could for her, then struggle to make the final decision to help her find peace. <3


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

Thank you, Karen. You were so kind to me during that very difficult time. I think sometimes that people don't realize that dogs can have mental health issues. Brookie was wonderful when she was well and out of control when she wasn't. I have come to cherish our best memories with her and accept the rest. Thanks again for the heartfelt words: they are so appreciated.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I know that must have been a extremely painful experience for you Joyce. I do believe dogs can never be trusted once they bite. Yesterday I stopped by our local pet store to pick up some treats. Someone was ahead of me was waiting to pick up their dog which had been groomed. They brought out a large Pitbull which appeared friendly. I immediately felt uncomfortable. My feelings go back to seeing what happened the day my friends Chow attacked. It's something that I will never forget when near a large dog. Animal Control immediately picked up the dog which was euthanized. This was 30+ years ago. I believe dogs in California now need to bite three times before being removed from the owner.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Milo's Mom said:


> Dogs that have a bite impulse are extremely dangerous and unpredictable. They are a threat to their owners, other adults, children, and other animals. Please report all biting dogs and follow up on the report.


We had a German Shepard in our neighborhood that the owner used to walk and warn others that her dog could be aggressive. I would avoid walking past her house and turn and go the other way while walking Molly if I saw them in the distance. One day my neighbor (my sister-in-law) was walking past their house and this dog came out of nowhere and charged her and bit her in her leg. The person at the home did not have the dog secured and did not have control of the animal. The bite was bad but could have been lethal to a small child or my 7 lb. Molly. The incident was reported and the dog was put down. Dogs like this are an incident waiting to happen and I agree that people should report them. Many times the owners are too blind to see what is going on with their own pets and are not thinking logically.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

I agree with you Diane.

I wish HF had something other than "like" for a post. I don't want to give your post a "like" because it might give the impression that I "liked" that your SIL was bitten. I wish there was also an "agree" button.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

*UPDATE*

Shingles daughter went back to her office today for the first time since being diagnosed with shingles about two weeks ago. She is supposed to work Mondays and Thursdays from her office and three days a week from home. She started working from home last Monday and her PCP gave her permission to go back to her office today. She is upbeat but still scarred from the shingles virus. The California governor is proposing a 10% pay cut for State employees (which she is) with a 10% cut in hours to pay for the dispruption caused by Covid and protests. She is fine with that and her JoJo doggie is ecstatic with that schedule! :grin2:

Dog attack daughter got a pocket stun gun for herself. She researched and found that an attacking dog in contact with her dog will NOT transfer a stun electric shock to her dog or herself, which was her primary concern. As an aside, I crossed paths a couple of days ago with the neighbor who carries an 18" baton stun gun with him. He said he has owned it 2 years and has never had the need to use it (even though he doesn't own a dog, he was attacked by a dog on leash a little over two years ago). He said the very sight of it keeps people with aggressive dogs away from him. He knows that Ricky and most dogs are no threat to him. He was showing me how it worked, pointed it in the air and activated about a 1/4 second blast of crackling electricity. Ricky was on a leash next to me and he literally rose 4" in the air, straight in the air, with all four paws at the sound. He was totally intimidated by the sound. On line reviews say that 90% of the time, that just a warning blast sound from a stun gun will send an aggressive dog in the other direction. I am ordering a pocket stun gun for myself.

Something new, I have come down with a somewhat common infection (not Covid related) that infects both men and women private parts on occasion. :wink2: I will be on the phone with my PCP tomorrow to get some prescription antibiotics. If it is not one thing, it is another. Ricky is not concerned! :grin2:

Ricky's Popi


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*training*



EvaE1izabeth said:


> I'm so glad they have a system in place to provide training for the family. For the sake of the dog, and everyone in the neighborhood, I hope the owners truly take advantage of it.


I was actually really glad to see that too. While I agree that this was really serious, I like that they get a chance to learn and get the training they need and then be evaluated instead of an automatic reaction for a 1st time problem.

Popi - I hope your daughter is feeling better.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*licensing*



Ricky Ricardo said:


> The family has no choice, they MUST take the training and have the trainer sign off on them with report to the County. I don't know the specific details, but I know it must be done quickly. I think this is a very innovative and pragmatic approach. Maybe everyone should be required to complete this training when getting a license for their dog. BTW, I don't know if this dog was licensed or not, but I can assure you that it will be licensed and chipped from now on! Ricky is licensed and chipped (I really need to update our current address). I urge everyone on HF has their dog(s) licensed and chipped.
> 
> It is unclear how this Pit Bull escaped from the yard. DD did not see it coming until it was on top of them. It is not clear how the dog was returned to the home, but the assisting neighbor from next door identified the dog and where it lived (across the street).
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Perry is licensed in PA even though we're only there a few weeks a year (as it's still my official US residence). He is also chipped though that is less useful in the places we live - so he also wears a collar 24/7 with a flat tag (doesn't dangle so can't get caught on things). I know some people have concerns about wearing a collar in his crate, but I minimize the potential problems by not having any tags dangling - for me, the danger of him possibly getting out without identification outweighs other potential problems.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> Perry is licensed in PA even though we're only there a few weeks a year (as it's still my official US residence). He is also chipped though that is less useful in the places we live - so he also wears a collar 24/7 with a flat tag (doesn't dangle so can't get caught on things). I know some people have concerns about wearing a collar in his crate, but I minimize the potential problems by not having any tags dangling - for me, the danger of him possibly getting out without identification outweighs other potential problems.


While my dogs don't wear tags/collars in the house and yard, I know you have a housekeeper and live in a different country, eith different concerns, where the risks of not having an ID collar on may be greater than the risks of wearing one. When my dogs are off the property, they always wear an ID tag, even though they are also chipped. Ifigure that if someone can just read the tag and call me, they will get returned that much faster tgan if they must be taken to a vet or shelter where someone knows enough to look for a chip.

Since I love pretty collars, our tags are on clips that make them easy to move from one collar to another. This also makes it easy for them to wear the tag in the car, but remove the tag for training or a trial, where they are not allowed.

While my dogs ARE registered in our town and also up to date on Rabies vaccines, they do NOT wear those tags. Just too much metal for little dogs to carry around for no reason. Those tags are always in a safe place, and I can produce them if needed.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I use collars from Genuine Collars. They are beautiful high quality collars of handmade leather and the tag does not dangle. I usually only put them on if we are off our property. Some of their leathers are softer than others so take that into consideration if you order one. I have had too many issues with dangling tags falling off no matter what clip I used and my dogs do not seem to like the dangling when we go for long walks. I know someone whose dog was laying on their deck and got a dangling tag caught between the boards. The dog hurt itself trying to get untangled. I think the dangling tags are risky.

https://www.genuinecollars.com/collections/leather-dog-collars

https://petrescuereport.com/2019/dog-owner-issues-a-warning-after-near-fatal-freak-accident/


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I use collars from Genuine Collars. They are beautiful high quality collars of handmade leather and the tag does not dangle. I usually only put them on if we are off our property. Some of their leathers are softer than others so take that into consideration if you order one. I have had too many issues with dangling tags falling off no matter what clip I used and my dogs do not seem to like the dangling when we go for long walks. I know someone whose dog was laying on their deck and got a dangling tag caught between the boards. The dog hurt itself trying to get untangled. I think the dangling tags are risky.
> 
> https://www.genuinecollars.com/collections/leather-dog-collars
> 
> https://petrescuereport.com/2019/dog-owner-issues-a-warning-after-near-fatal-freak-accident/


Since my dogs are never out of my care when they are wearing collars, I guess the dangling tags are a minor consideration. Since I lose them from time to time, I think they'd break off before they'd seriously get the dog caught up... especially at the tiny size used n my dogs.

I have a lot of collars from a lot of places. My favorites are embroidered ones from the dog shows. They each have several. I like those because they have quick snap releases, so they are easy to put on and take off. I also love Kodi's Stibbar braided colars and leashs for trials, but those collars are just to stiff in the tiny sizes needed for the girls. I tried ordering one for Panda, and I really didn't like it. (Panda's are particularly silly, because you can't SEE any of them on her  )

... And you should see their show leash collection.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Since my dogs are never out of my care when they are wearing collars, I guess the dangling tags are a minor consideration. Since I lose them from time to time, I think they'd break off before they'd seriously get the dog caught up... especially at the tiny size used n my dogs.
> 
> I have a lot of collars from a lot of places. My favorites are embroidered ones from the dog shows. They each have several. I like those because they have quick snap releases, so they are easy to put on and take off. I also love Kodi's Stibbar braided colars and leashs for trials, but those collars are just to stiff in the tiny sizes needed for the girls. I tried ordering one for Panda, and I really didn't like it. (Panda's are particularly silly, because you can't SEE any of them on her  )
> 
> ... And you should see their show leash collection.


Your collars are beautiful and I can see why you like the detachable tags. I guess everyone has different scenarios where they use collars. For me, it is mainly when we visit friends and relatives, some of which are in rural areas. These are unfamiliar places to my dogs and although I watch them I guess I fear they could get out somehow especially at large gatherings. My main concern is that they have a tag that stays on so that someone can call me vs. trying to find a vet to read their microchip. One time we had a stray dog show up at night on a weekend on our porch. I was so glad it had a tag. The dog belonged to someone attending a party down the street and they had set off fireworks. The dog got scared and ran off. If it did not have a tag, I guess I would have had to find an emergency vet to read the chip. I know it is unlikely they will get lost but I feel better with a reliable tag on them.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I use clip tags, but I clip them to the ring on the back of the harness, only when we are away from our home or neighborhood. The chances of him getting out at home are extremely low, and if he did get out, we would know immediately. 

Sundance has “escaped” a grand total of maybe 6 times in his whole life, but every single one was a dramatic event. He ran once on a trail, leash trailing behind, but fortunately he likes to stay just out of reach and keep us in sight. Another time, DH needed to run into a store to grab something and asked DD to take him potty while he was gone. While DD was getting out of the car, he somehow escaped and he thought EVERYONE was going inside! He ran a couple of circles in the parking lot, then raced into the entrance of Best Buy where DH was still walking inside and intercepted him. DD was terrified he would get hit by a car, but the parking lot was empty. Once was in the rain, in the park right in front of our house, he had a wild case of the zoomies. The neighbors came out and watched! When he figured out how to escape his old harness, he sauntered down the street to the neighborhood dog park and waited there for DD. I think he actually did that more than once. 

The very first time he got out was soon after we brought him home, and I think it made me focus on preventing it as much as possible, though we were really good about practicing recall for a while after that. DS came home while I was picking up his sister from her school, and Sundance had escaped his ex-pen. He darted outside as DS came inside, and DS has mobility issues and couldn’t catch him. He ended up trailing after him for 10 minutes until Sundance got tired and ran home. I realized that because of DS’s disabilities, we needed to puppy proof the house in ways that were unique to his needs, the same way we adapted and made things accessible for him in other ways. 

Regarding the tags, the one time tags would have been most helpful, he didn’t have them. Last summer when we were on a trip, he was staying with a sitter and escaped their yard. He was being supervised, but he was so fast, by the time she went through the gate to the front, he was far down the street, and by the time she had her kids in the car, he was nowhere to be found. He ran over a mile home to our house! It was maybe 45 minutes, and we were on the phone and posting on both of our neighborhood Facebook groups (there were several sightings) but it felt like forever! She found him waiting on our porch. I think he’d only walked that way one time, with DD. He didn’t have tags, I had forgotten to pack them. I will never forget that again!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I use clip tags, but I clip them to the ring on the back of the harness, only when we are away from our home or neighborhood. The chances of him getting out at home are extremely low, and if he did get out, we would know immediately.
> 
> Sundance has "escaped" a grand total of maybe 6 times in his whole life, but every single one was a dramatic event. He ran once on a trail, leash trailing behind, but fortunately he likes to stay just out of reach and keep us in sight. Another time, DH needed to run into a store to grab something and asked DD to take him potty while he was gone. While DD was getting out of the car, he somehow escaped and he thought EVERYONE was going inside! He ran a couple of circles in the parking lot, then raced into the entrance of Best Buy where DH was still walking inside and intercepted him. DD was terrified he would get hit by a car, but the parking lot was empty. Once was in the rain, in the park right in front of our house, he had a wild case of the zoomies. The neighbors came out and watched! When he figured out how to escape his old harness, he sauntered down the street to the neighborhood dog park and waited there for DD. I think he actually did that more than once.
> 
> ...


Wow these must have been scary experiences for you! I wanted to add that another reason I quit using the dangling tags was when I got my second dog. They would rough house and one time the dangling tag was dangling from my yorkie's mouth. Just wondering else to consider when using dangling tags.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

My Dad had to be very careful when opening the front door because his Havanese/Sparky would take off running. I was over at his house visiting once when we decided to come up to my house. Sparky stayed at his house. We had dinner and were watching tv when the phone rang. It was the police in my Dad's house. Apparently the front door must have not shut completely. Sparky had run 1.5 miles down the hill through many crosswalks and two intersections to the downtown area where the policeman caught him. Thankfully he had his collar and tag on. He brought him home, walked through the house to make sure everything was ok and called me. Not sure how he got our number. The policeman said he would wait until we returned to the house.😊 That was very scary because he could have easily been hit. Scout and Truffles only wear collar with tags when going for a walk, but they are microchipped.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Your collars are beautiful and I can see why you like the detachable tags. I guess everyone has different scenarios where they use collars. For me, it is mainly when we visit friends and relatives, some of which are in rural areas. These are unfamiliar places to my dogs and although I watch them I guess I fear they could get out somehow especially at large gatherings. My main concern is that they have a tag that stays on so that someone can call me vs. trying to find a vet to read their microchip. One time we had a stray dog show up at night on a weekend on our porch. I was so glad it had a tag. The dog belonged to someone attending a party down the street and they had set off fireworks. The dog got scared and ran off. If it did not have a tag, I guess I would have had to find an emergency vet to read the chip. I know it is unlikely they will get lost but I feel better with a reliable tag on them.


I agree, everything is a trade-off. You need to weigh the risks based on what you do with uour dog(s) and then make the best decisions for them. I know someone who insists that NOTHING but a tatooed phone number on the inner thigh of her dogs is a safe enough answer!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Oh! I should add that the one time our dogs DO. wear their collars and tags all day is when we are camping. We have just a 24” ex-pen “fence” as our dog yard against the trailer, and in nice weather often leave the door open so they can come in and out at will. They have never challenged the fence, but, of course any of them COULD jump it. So we don’t take chances. Especially far from home.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

And some of you.may remember our one “lost dog story”. It was just a bit over a year ago. The vet’s office called, and said, “Someone just called us, and they have Pixel!, we knew you’d want to know!” My first reaction was for my heart to jump into my throat. My second was to look down and see a little black furry face looking up at me.

“No,” I said, “Pixel is on my kitchen floor staring at me right now.”

“Are you sure? They said she was a little black fluffy dog!”

“I’m REALLY sure...”

It turns out that the Rabies tag they’d tracked down was the right NUMBER but the previous year, and that dog ALSO just happened to be a small black dog named Pixel. What are the chances? They did get the dog reunite with the RIGHT owners on the next call! LOL!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

In agility, dogs can't have hanging tags for safety reasons, so I got out of the habit of putting a collar on Shama at all. Her fur also mats whenever she wears any sort of collar. (I am grateful to the groomer friend who told me to get a rolled leather collar for Shama. That is the only kind of collar she wears when she does wear a collar.) Now we only put a collar on her when we are away from home or at obedience class. For walks around the neighborhood, we use the fleece leash/collar combo we got from this local company for agility trials. It's slick because the collar just goes over her head then tightens when you pull on the leash. When you relax the leash for walking, the collar loosens, but not enough that her head slips out.

Thanks for the update on your family, Popi! Glad to hear Ricky is doing well despite it all ...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> In agility, dogs can't have hanging tags for safety reasons, so I got out of the habit of putting a collar on Shama at all. Her fur also mats whenever she wears any sort of collar. (I am grateful to the groomer friend who told me to get a rolled leather collar for Shama. That is the only kind of collar she wears when she does wear a collar.) Now we only put a collar on her when we are away from home or at obedience class. For walks around the neighborhood, we use the fleece leash/collar combo we got from this local company for agility trials. It's slick because the collar just goes over her head then tightens when you pull on the leash. When you relax the leash for walking, the collar loosens, but not enough that her head slips out.
> 
> Thanks for the update on your family, Popi! Glad to hear Ricky is doing well despite it all ...


Yes, that is true in obedience and rally too, and for the same reason... after Novice level (in AKC) the dogs are jumping. And the possibility of getting caught on something is too high. In some venues (NADAC, for one) they can't even wear collars. They must run naked.

And, yes, the matting issue with coated dogs is why we got in the habit of never leaving collars on at home. All of our dogs were in long coat for at least a good long while, and Panda still is. It seems silly to have collars on some and not on others.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Milo's Mom said:


> Dogs that have a bite impulse are extremely dangerous and unpredictable. They are a threat to their owners, other adults, children, and other animals. During the six years that we had Brookie (a mixed breed Havanese puppy), nothing was permanently successful - therapy, training, medication, etc. She was sweet but also aggressive and prone to unprovoked biting. I will never forgot the day that she attacked Milo; I think she might have killed him if I hadn't been able to separate them. Putting her to sleep was the only responsible alternative. I still think of her every day. Please report all biting dogs and follow up on the report.


What a sad situation! This happened to someone I know. She had two cairn terriers from a reputable breeder with similar genetics. One of them became extremely aggressive. They finally put him down. It was definitely the right thing to do but has to be a heartbreaking experience. I have read articles saying that the rabies vaccine can sometimes trigger aggression in dogs. I am not sure if this is true or not. It is required in most places so hard to avoid it. It is good to do the 3 year if possible vs. 1 year for many reasons.


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