# Probiotics



## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

Does anyone routinely give probiotics such as FortiFlora perhaps on a once a week basis?

Thanks.

Shirley


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Yes, I have been using them in Gucci's meals for over a year now and they work great, IMO. I use the integrative therapeutics brand and sprinkle a little out of the capsule.

Kara


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Tillie is on a home cooked diet from Sabine (dog nutritionist) and Tillie does get 1/2 a capsule of a probiotic each day...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yes, I give Kodi probiotics regularly. But I'm not sure what the point would be of giving them only once a week. If you are going to use them, use asa directed. I use Oma's Pride "O'Paws" Digestive Performance. Kodi gets the amount commended for his weight daily, and gets twice that (as recommended) when he is showing or otherwise under stress.

He might do fine without it, but when he had his expensive (and frightening) digestive problem last winter, the vet suggested putting him on it. When he was finally better, we talked about it, and decided it couldn't possibly hurt to put him on a probiotic, and it probably made sense for an active eprformance dog anyway. A jar is expensive, (I think it was about $60) but considering that it will most likely last 9 months or so, the daily cost is pretty low.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I would recommend using them , very beneficial Not sure about the one you mentioned. Here's an article by Sabine. http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=probiotics Here's the one I use.,very inexpensive no refrigeration needed. http://www.houseofnutrition.com/733739029133.html


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> I would recommend using them , very beneficial Not sure about the one you mentioned. Here's an article by Sabine. http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=probiotics Here's the one I use.,very inexpensive no refrigeration needed. http://www.houseofnutrition.com/733739029133.html


Yeah, Kodi's doesn't need refrigeration either. And while the jar is expensive because you buy a lot at once, It's chep to feed ona daily basis, especially for one of our little dogs!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeah Karen I'm thinking you're right about daily. For probiotics to do any good they have to be used long term ie. lifetime and daily usually. This is from Sabine....The most important detail is the concentration of “Colony Forming Units” of organisms, or CFU.
To provide a truly therapeutic effect, a product should supply at the very least 1-2 billion CFU per
serving. Do not waste your money on products that contain only several millions, or even just tens
of thousands. The second most important detail is how long the potency of CFU is guaranteed –
it’s better if the guarantee applies throughout the shelf life of the product rather than just “at time
of manufacture”.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

On looking at this web site, it looks more than a probiotic. Made by Purina. which for me is a red flag. Animal digest first ingredient red flag. But I'm not an expert , so I've got a email out to Sabine to answer your question. Back as soon as I hear from her. Nowhere does it mention the number of CFU's


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I knew I saw something on Animal Digest . Here is something on it from Sabines site. Products to Avoid 


Animal Digest 


AAFCO: A material which results from chemical and/or enzymatic hydrolysis of clean and undecomposed animal tissue. The animal tissues used shall be exclusive of hair, horns, teeth, hooves and feathers, except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably in good factory practice and shall be suitable for animal feed. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind or flavor(s), it must correspond thereto. 

A cooked-down broth made from unspecified parts of unspecified animals. The animals used can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), goats, pigs, horses, rats, misc. roadkill, animals euthanized at shelters, restaurant and supermarket refuse and so on


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

*Thanks*

Thanks to everyone for the points of view--valuable. The articles are
also helpful.

When Keeper had a bout of diarrhea several weeks ago--actually not a bout but two incidents first thing in the morning on two alternate days, we took him to the vet who found no 'bad' bugs. He said that the FortiFlora is the first line of defense against diarrhea and he was right--cleared right up.

I was confused on how often to give it if all was well. FortiFlora comes in packets that do not require refrigeration. I'm going to give his office a call and see what his recommendation is on just continuing giving it. He always recommended giving this 3 days before and 3 days after when he was showing.

Again, thanks for the help.

Shirley


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

FYI everybody. Keeper's vet said that while the probiotic may not be strictly necessary, it's a great way to promote digestive help and every day can't hurt. He does favor the FortiFlora so I'll look for it on-line. Vet prices are $1.75/packet (OUCH!)

Shirley


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Do you know if probiotics will get rid of stained eye areas?


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Interesting idea, not sure if they would remove the stains, but it probably wouldn't hurt to dab some on there and see, quite possible it would work.

I use the refrigerated ones too. It'd be nice to find someone to go halfsies on it and split the bottle and cost, I never end up using them all before they expire.

Kara


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Here's what Sabine just wrote. .." I don't like it, it's of poor quality and contains unnecessary additives. I prefer human-grade probiotic supplements"


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

I have problems with eye staining too. I have emailed Sabine telling her my problems and asking her with consult to make...not really sure. I will go to whatever it takes to get rid of the eye staining, if I can do it without chemicals/antibiotics...I finally decided I need help...lol...just like Dave told me..ound:so I am calling Sabine.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> On looking at this web site, it looks more than a probiotic. Made by Purina. which for me is a red flag. Animal digest first ingredient red flag. But I'm not an expert , so I've got a email out to Sabine to answer your question. Back as soon as I hear from her. Nowhere does it mention the number of CFU's


Which product are you talking about? O'Paws isn't made by Purina. First ingredient is dried whole egg, so I'm not sure why that should be red flagged...? And O'Paws has 3.3 billion CFU's per gram. (the jar contains 454 grams, so as I said, it will lst a while!)


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> I have problems with eye staining too. I have emailed Sabine telling her my problems and asking her with consult to make...not really sure. I will go to whatever it takes to get rid of the eye staining, if I can do it without chemicals/antibiotics...I finally decided I need help...lol...just like Dave told me..ound:so I am calling Sabine.


Good for you Flynn, as far as eye stains goes ,Sabine doen't recommend Angel Eyes for "cosmetic" purposes. Here's what she also said about it. ..."Angel Eyes is only used for eye stains, but the antibiotic it contains (tylosin) is used for many applications in all kinds of animals from dogs to cattle, including treatment of colitis in small animals, and as a growth promoter in food animals.

It is prescription-only, so use for the treatment of tear stains is not only technically illegal because it's off-label use, but also because it's freely sold over the counter".


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

and when I asked Sabine , how they can sell Angel Eyes over the counter she said...."Nobody cares enough to regulate pet supplements, that's why. It's even worse than with dog food, which at least has *some* regulation.

How do you think all the companies like Hill's and Purina get away with their false advertising and misleading claims? LOL"


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I was basically wondering if the PRObiotic would help inside the body and would help to promote a cleaner drainage from the eyes.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

HavaneseSoon said:


> I was basically wondering if the PRObiotic would help inside the body and would help to promote a cleaner drainage from the eyes.


 Not sure on that , but once we got Molly on a healthy diet we definitely noticed less tear staining.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Good for you Flynn, as far as eye stains goes ,Sabine doen't recommend Angel Eyes for "cosmetic" purposes. Here's what she also said about it. ..."Angel Eyes is only used for eye stains, but the antibiotic it contains (tylosin) is used for many applications in all kinds of animals from dogs to cattle, including treatment of colitis in small animals, and as a growth promoter in food animals.
> 
> It is prescription-only, so use for the treatment of tear stains is not only technically illegal because it's off-label use, but also because it's freely sold over the counter".


Hi Dave,

To be clear, at least here in the U.S., it is NOT illegal to use drugs for "off label" purposes... if that were the case, MANY of the drugs we use for animals could not be used that way. However, it is NOT legal to sell prescription drugs whether the use is for a labeled or off-lable use without a physician's or veterinarian's prescription.

Sabine is right, the pet industry is just not closely regulated in this regard. You can walk into any pet store and purchase several types of antibiotics to pour into your aquarium and "cure" various fish diseases. The ridiculous thing about this is that the antibiotics available are effective only against gram positive infections, and most fish diseases are gram negative infections. (besides the fact that bathing them in the stuff is a very ineffective method of administration.:frusty


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I think the message here is that when it comes to food or suppliments that , the closer they are to human quality the safer they will be. When there are no rules governing what Hills or Purina say we have no idea what to believe. Especially with suppliments. Finally some action ie, class action lawsuits are coming forward and putting these companies to task. We need more for sure.


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## farahmae (Oct 14, 2011)

What does probiotics do? can anyone answer me please? 

____________________________
mesothelioma treatment options


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

Hi Farahmae

Probiotics are an aid to digestive health. In other words, they populate the intestines with good bacteria to do away with the 'bad'.

Shirley H.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

farahmae said:


> What does probiotics do? can anyone answer me please?
> 
> ____________________________
> mesothelioma treatment options


Welcome to the forum, I posted a link to an article on the first page of this thread. Don't forget to introduce yourself on the thread called " Introduce Yourself part 2.


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## Pamela Rolla (Mar 26, 2012)

How much of the; "Now Foods Acidophilus Stabilized 3 Billion 90Tabs" to give each dog per day? Thanks


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

HavaneseSoon said:


> I was basically wondering if the PRObiotic would help inside the body and would help to promote a cleaner drainage from the eyes.


Yes, they are going to help. But it is better if they are combined with some digestive enzymes. Probiotics restore good bacterial flora in the gut and it stops overgrowth of yeasts in the gut and on the skin. Malassezia yeast is that cause tear stains and rusty discoloring of dog hair. Probiotics do not remove tear stains overnight. You have to give them for couple od months to see results. My friend who has bichon frisee had quite a big problem with tear stains. She started with enzymes/probiotics. She also used Virbac Pyoderm shampoo to wash his muzzle and area under the eyes (twice a week) and in beetwen she used Malaseb medicated pads/wipes. Basically both products contain chlorhexadine which is a superb yeast and bacteria killer. 
Marina&Roki


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## Cindi (Sep 5, 2011)

Shirley,

You can get FortiFlora through Revival Animal Health for $21.99 for 30 packets. We had a canine gastroenterologist recommend it a couple of years ago for Mojo and have used it ever since. Every time I go in to see my vet I ask if there's anything else that might be as effective and just a couple of months ago she told me that there was a large clinical trial recently completed. FortiFlora was in the top 3 (in terms of efficacy) for controlling diarrhea secondary to clostridium overgrowth due to stress. But she also said another probiotic, I think it was Proviable, did slightly better in the trial. I had a few months worth of FortiFlora in the house so I haven't tried this one yet. I think I will though when I run out because I think the FortiFlora is messy. If I don't squeeze it in with some canned food, Mojo gets it all over himself. For all that "animal digest" sounds gross -- it must taste pretty good


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Pamela Rolla said:


> How much of the; "Now Foods Acidophilus Stabilized 3 Billion 90Tabs" to give each dog per day? Thanks


One daily. It's a pill like an asperin. I crush it with a spoon to a powder and sprinkle it on her canned food.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Cindi said:


> Shirley,
> 
> You can get FortiFlora through Revival Animal Health for $21.99 for 30 packets. We had a canine gastroenterologist recommend it a couple of years ago for Mojo and have used it ever since. Every time I go in to see my vet I ask if there's anything else that might be as effective and just a couple of months ago she told me that there was a large clinical trial recently completed. FortiFlora was in the top 3 (in terms of efficacy) for controlling diarrhea secondary to clostridium overgrowth due to stress. But she also said another probiotic, I think it was Proviable, did slightly better in the trial. I had a few months worth of FortiFlora in the house so I haven't tried this one yet. I think I will though when I run out because I think the FortiFlora is messy. If I don't squeeze it in with some canned food, Mojo gets it all over himself. For all that "animal digest" sounds gross -- it must taste pretty good [/QUOTE
> Yeah Cindy, here's what Sabine says about digestive enzymes ...
> ...


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

With probiotics here is what Sabine recommends. 

What to look for:
The most important detail is the concentration of “Colony Forming Units” of organisms, or CFU.
To provide a truly therapeutic effect, a product should supply at the very least 1-2 billion CFU per
serving. Do not waste your money on products that contain only several millions, or even just tens
of thousands. The second most important detail is how long the potency of CFU is guaranteed –
it’s better if the guarantee applies throughout the shelf life of the product rather than just “at time
of manufacture”.


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## Pamela Rolla (Mar 26, 2012)

Great Thread!! 

I remember using acidophilus as a vegan in the 70's for intestinal health - and again with my children from time to time.

Chica & Josey do fine with almost anything going - but Pedro (bless his heart) has been threw the food battle finally settling on a high quality grain free diet for stool consistency only to find his anal glads stopped up at 4 months of age  The vet said a grain free diet promotes softer stools thus not enough pressure on those glads for him to secrete on his own. Now I am switching him to Orijen puppy - I have noticed a number of forum members using this product with success - so we will give it a try and add acidophilus also.

Pedro is not under stress at this point.

Thanks everyone


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