# Teenage behaviors...



## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

..

Oliver is 11 months old and there's a couple things I want to work on with him. I'll definitely seek a trainer's advice too, but I have wait times w trainers around here because of the holidays. 

Chewing on stuff! When will this end? Clothing, socks, my chairs, grabbing little toys (scary!) and chewing. He also follows me around nipping at my socks (playing but still annoying). What is the best way to handle that kind of thing? This is part my fault because the more I tell him no, the more attention I'm giving it. Often he wants attention (pick him up and cuddle him and he stops). He's sensitive and sweet, which I love about him, but he also reminds me of a toddler who wraps their arms around your leg when you try to leave. I'll be working on my computer and he keeps jumping on the keyboard and nibbling my clothes until I pick him uo and cuddle him. I don't mind him in my lap, but I can't give him my full, undivided attention while I'm working. 

He also nips super gently when he has to go potty so I don't want to discourage that...

BECAUSE

Potty training. He has had two poop accidents recently because he sometimes refuses to poop outside. It's usually something like he'd rather go for a long walk, he gets distracted, etc. He hasn't peed in the house since he was 4 months old. But I can't spend so much time getting him to poop. or he won't go and let us know hours later (say 10 pm) that he needs to.


----------



## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Does he like chew toys - I would suggest having a ton of them around and substitute them for whatever he's taking. I've been very lucky, we got Perry at 8 months and he has always loved his chew toys (And cloth toys to tear and "kill"). But when I don't have any around (like at my Mom's where i keep the toys up to prevent fighting with my Mom's dog), he will go after things like socks.


----------



## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Melissa Brill said:


> Does he like chew toys - I would suggest having a ton of them around and substitute them for whatever he's taking. I've been very lucky, we got Perry at 8 months and he has always loved his chew toys (And cloth toys to tear and "kill"). But when I don't have any around (like at my Mom's where i keep the toys up to prevent fighting with my Mom's dog), he will go after things like socks.


He definitely likes chew toys, but he likes the whole forbidden fruit of theft lol. And now he gets the drop it command, gets into stuff and sure he'll drop it. For a treat. But I follow him around all day trading for treats. I'm also training kids to keep bathroom doors shut (so he doesn't get into trash and toilet paper) but that's a work in progress too


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> He definitely likes chew toys, but he likes the whole forbidden fruit of theft lol. And now he gets the drop it command, gets into stuff and sure he'll drop it. For a treat. But I follow him around all day trading for treats. I'm also training kids to keep bathroom doors shut (so he doesn't get into trash and toilet paper) but that's a work in progress too


Honestly? We ended up getting all foot-pedal type covered wastebaskets. I got tired of fighting that fight with Kodi...


----------



## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*waste baskets*



krandall said:


> Honestly? We ended up getting all foot-pedal type covered wastebaskets. I got tired of fighting that fight with Kodi...


I'm so thankful Perry hasn't shown much interest in the waste baskets... he will tear apart a paper on the floor if it's been there a while AND a few weeks ago when I had him tethered in the kitchen with me I must have knocked a wooden spoon off of the calendar (a clean one) because I looked over a few minutes later to see him shredding it  (that was a worry for a bit - did he swallow any or not!) To be fair, I hadn't brought any of his toys into the kitchen with us and he couldn't go get them himself because of being on restriction.


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Okay so the sock thing- mine will completely pull off my kids socks and he “conquers” them like they’re a toy, all to initiate play. I gave up on that one because he doesn’t do it with me, and he uses incredible bite inhibition when he grabs their socks when they’re on their feet. It drives my kids crazy when they’re putting their socks and shoes on for school, but they also sit there and giggle half the time, and stick their feet with socks on them in his face at other times to get him to play because they think it’s funny. I have decided this is a kid training issue, not a dog training issue, and if and when they get sick of it then they’re going to have to help solve the problem. I started treating shutting gates the same way and I feel your pain. It’s more work to get my kids to clean up a puppy shredding mess than to clean it up myself sometimes, but it took a few times of cleaning up those messes before they remembered to shut the gates and doors. I’m also mean and I’ve been known to have them come all the way back downstairs just to shut the gate  Everyone is learning together, it just takes time and repetition for those habits to form. 

As far as him nipping at your own feet as a cue to go potty, I wonder if there’s a way to replace that cue. Maybe someone can suggest a way to actively train that. Mine did it, too, when he needed to poop, but he doesn’t anymore, and I don’t know what changed. I did bell training, which turned out kind of funny. The bell was too heavy, and I meant to replace it but I never got around to it. We still rang it ourselves every time we took him out. Eventually he started sitting by the bell, even though he can’t ring it. I didn’t start bell training until he was already reliable though, and a big piece of him being reliable with poop was adjusting his diet. Maybe you could try taking him out earlier before he gives you his cue and training some kind of cue at that interval, then back off until he gives you his cue and use the replacement then. Not sure about that!

Mine was a finicky about poop but it’s gotten so much better. If there is a car next door I don’t even bother, I know it will take forever because he’ll just watch. He’ll still pee so I let him go and then take him back out in 5 minutes. Then I carry him to a spot and tell him to go potty and put him down. If he doesn’t start sniffing I pick him up and do it again. He rarely needs that second prompt, but sometimes he remembers someone was outside a few minutes ago, or that it’s almost time for the kids to get home so he’ll start watching for them. It’s just too cold outside for me to wait around for him to poop, I’m way too impatient! I do think some of it is age. He’s 2 now and he still gets distracted but it’s not anywhere near as intense and hyper. So keep pushing through!


----------



## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Okay so the sock thing- mine will completely pull off my kids socks and he "conquers" them like they're a toy, all to initiate play. I gave up on that one because he doesn't do it with me, and he uses incredible bite inhibition when he grabs their socks when they're on their feet. It drives my kids crazy when they're putting their socks and shoes on for school, but they also sit there and giggle half the time, and stick their feet with socks on them in his face at other times to get him to play because they think it's funny. I have decided this is a kid training issue, not a dog training issue, and if and when they get sick of it then they're going to have to help solve the problem. I started treating shutting gates the same way and I feel your pain. It's more work to get my kids to clean up a puppy shredding mess than to clean it up myself sometimes, but it took a few times of cleaning up those messes before they remembered to shut the gates and doors. I'm also mean and I've been known to have them come all the way back downstairs just to shut the gate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Elizabeth. All of this I can relate to. I think having kids can be both a help and hindrance in training! Lol


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> Thanks Elizabeth. All of this I can relate to. I think having kids can be both a help and hindrance in training! Lol


Husbands too. LOL!


----------



## Cassandra (Dec 29, 2015)

Cassie at four still likes to put forbidden things in her mouth.

Step on trash cans definitely necessary. Toilet paper a constant issue. Normally, it is kept on bathroom sink rather than on the toilet paper holder. When we have guests, I put it on the holder and about half the time, she checks, finds it and unrolls it..fortunately, she makes alot of noise doing it so gets caught. I can’t train her to leave it so prevention is the only solution.

Nipping stopped long ago but during puppy stage, it had to be trained away with time outs, ignoring etc.


----------



## nwhavmom (Feb 2, 2019)

My Teddy is also 11 months. I hope it gives you comfort to know that we are living mirror lives


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Hadn't thought about getting trashcans will lids and a peddle. Thanks for the idea. Right now I'm keeping my bathroom trashcans in the bathtub and my dog is 21 months old.:| She's been known to jump into the bathtub for a Look See.

Patti is an expert at the game of* Drop It for a Treat*. When we can - we ignore her - when she picks up a shoe, sock or something else we don't want her to have. Just encourages her more to steal things for a Treat. Grrrrr! >


----------



## aroq (Dec 14, 2018)

*Husbands...*



krandall said:


> Husbands too. LOL!


Believe me, @EvaE1izabeth knows how teenager-like a husband can be.... I am a serial gate offender...


----------



## havazoey (May 15, 2019)

These Havanese are special little creatures. My Zoey is 11 months old and is doing the exact same things. I keep my toilet paper on the tank, my garbage in the bathtub. She also watches my husband carefully to steal whatever he leaves out like newspapers, coats and pants with Kleenex in pockets, slippers ,socks, pens and drops whatever she gets at my feet waiting for her trade treat. Senior husbands are as frustrating as kids at not shutting doors and gates and putting things away.
She pulls at my clothes with her teeth if she wants attention but is getting better when I tell her that is bad and to get a toy, and now sometimes stops it when I stare sternly at her and runs and gets a toy. My husband also laughs at her like your kids do which just encourages the bad behaviour. They love attention. As hard as this all is sometimes, it is so worth it as she is the smartest and most loving dog you could want most of the time and her behaviour improves every month. .... Susan


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Okay so the sock thing- mine will completely pull off my kids socks and he "conquers" them like they're a toy, all to initiate play.
> 
> It drives my kids crazy when they're putting their socks and shoes on for school, but they also sit there and giggle half the time, and stick their feet with socks on them in his face at other times to get him to play because they think it's funny. I have decided this is a kid training issue, not a dog training issue, and if and when they get sick of it then they're going to have to help solve the problem.
> 
> I started treating shutting gates the same way and I feel your pain. It's more work to get my kids to clean up a puppy shredding mess than to clean it up myself sometimes, but it took a few times of cleaning up those messes before they remembered to shut the gates and doors. I'm also mean and I've been known to have them come all the way back downstairs just to shut the gate  Everyone is learning together, it just takes time and repetition for those habits to form.


Kid's stinky feet and their socks are the Best-Of-The-Best. Oh, my Kids and Dogs. @Elizabeth your kiddos will likely never tire of the dog playing the Grab the Socks Game. The dog will probably quit first. :wink2:

We have a 2ft gate that everyone steps over that blocks Patti out of the - Boys Cave. Patti loves carrying around their $200 Bluetooth Ear Buds and two sets have been replaced because Ear Buds are NOT designed for to be carried around by dog teeth. Good to have Insurance on those things when you've got a Havanese. :grin2:

We have another gate that open and closes so we can shut Patti off from an other area when needed. And, the boys now 13 and 16 are pretty good about remembering if they open the gate to close it. However, either being lazy or in order to not Forget .... they step typically step over the 3ft gate swing gate.

BTW...I rarely wear socks but Patti tries to grab mine if she's around when I put them.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

aroq said:


> Believe me, @EvaE1izabeth knows how teenager-like a husband can be.... I am a serial gate offender...


LOL!!!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Mikki said:


> Kid's stinky feet and their socks are the Best-Of-The-Best. Oh, my Kids and Dogs. @Elizabeth your kiddos will likely never tire of the dog playing the Grab the Socks Game. The dog will probably quit first. :wink2:
> 
> We have a 2ft gate that everyone steps over that blocks Patti out of the - Boys Cave. Patti loves carrying around their $200 Bluetooth Ear Buds and two sets have been replaced because Ear Buds are NOT designed for to be carried around by dog teeth. Good to have Insurance on those things when you've got a Havanese. :grin2:


Hate to tell you, but this is NOT "puppy behavior"... My very WORST "ear bud eater" is my 10 year old... :sorry:


----------



## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Hate to tell you, but this is NOT "puppy behavior"... My very WORST "ear bud eater" is my 10 year old... :sorry:


Mia has lost interest in socks but my 10 year old yorkie is obsessed with them! Every night he stops by the laundry room to see if the hubby has dropped any clothing on the floor (hubby still figuring out what laundry baskets are for). Bear will typically find a sock and drag it into his crate. Sometimes he scores a pair of underwear and he is in seventh heaven!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LOL!


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

@krandall and @mudpuppymam

*LMAO!!!!!* about the Ear Buds, Socks and Underwear.


----------



## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Yep. He loves to pull socks off feet! He doesn't nip as in puppy nipping skin. It's little teeny teeny nibbles at your clothes. It is sometimes when he's cuddling, and sometimes a sign he needs to go out. In play he'll try and play tug of war with my kids' sleeves but they taught him he could! I am so mad because he's ruining clothes, and then telling my kids CONSTANTLY to NOT LAUGH at this!

I really wish I'd done a better job teaching him that signal for potty vs taking him out on a leash every few hours. Now he nibbles or VERY occasionally goes to the door. If you say "do you have to go potty?" he walks to the door! He can hold pee for a long time and as long as I'm taking him out every so often it isn't a big deal. It is poop. So annoying. He'll walk an hour, not go, come home, go in the house. I've started putting him in his pen (which is no longer an ex pen but a pretty big area behind a gate. It's not a punishment, but he still doesn't like it. Usually he gets the message though. I take him out 20-30 min later and he goes FAST.


----------



## sema4dogz (Oct 22, 2019)

What is it with Havanese and socks! My Corazon ( nearly 11 months) can detect one being removed four rooms away . They - and anything else shoe/foot related - have been her obsession since she was 12 weeks old.


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

@Melissa Woods ... If it is possible for you to install a fence on the side or in the backyard, this pays huge dividends for having a dog. A Doggie Door only adds to the Plus Side. Doggie Doors can now be installed in patio windows and doors. My dog is indoor-housebroken to a potty tray but Patti prefers going outside, she asks to go or will use the Doggie Door. Something she taught herself.

If I were you, after you walk your puppy if he has not pooped put him in the ex-pen. Take him out in a few minutes, walk him back outside tell him to Poop (or whatever you say). If he goes, give him a Treat! Good Job! Yay!

If he doesn't poop, take him back inside and put him back in the ex-pen. Repeat! until he goes Poop. Then Treat!

You still have a very young puppy. These little Havanese are very smart. You can teach this little guy to respond to a Command for doing his business outside.

When he's tearing at clothes, I'd use the ex-pen to get his attention. I'd firmly say: No!. Pick him up, and put him in the ex-pen for a minute. Won't take long. He'll get the message if you will be consistent.

My dog will be two years old Feb 2020. She has settled down a lot but is still very Puppy Like. I just recently, took down a wire crate that I used to Settle her Down or Get Her Attention when I wanted her to stop doing something. Because she older, now when she steals socks, shoes and underwear she just carries the item around and doesn't chew holes in the item (very often).


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

sema4dogz said:


> What is it with Havanese and socks! My Corazon ( nearly 11 months) can detect one being removed four rooms away . They - and anything else shoe/foot related - have been her obsession since she was 12 weeks old.


The Sinker the sock is - All The Better. Kids stinky sock feet are the Best-of-the-Best. >


----------



## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Mikki said:


> The Sinker the sock is - All The Better. Kids stinky sock feet are the Best-of-the-Best. >


No way! Hubby socks win the prize! They are bigger too...more surface area for stinkiness!!!! Bear will drop a sock of mine to trade up for a hubby sock!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> He'll walk an hour, not go, come home, go in the house. I've started putting him in his pen (which is no longer an ex pen but a pretty big area behind a gate. It's not a punishment, but he still doesn't like it. Usually he gets the message though. I take him out 20-30 min later and he goes FAST.


That's PERFECT!!!


----------



## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

krandall said:


> Melissa Woods said:
> 
> 
> > He'll walk an hour, not go, come home, go in the house. I've started putting him in his pen (which is no longer an ex pen but a pretty big area behind a gate. It's not a punishment, but he still doesn't like it. Usually he gets the message though. I take him out 20-30 min later and he goes FAST.
> ...


Oh gosh. It gets better. Today we went out and I said, "I'll give you a treat if you go potty." He looked up and me, right in the eye. I said, "yep I have treats" He IMMEDIATELY pooped (I gave him one of course). I'm sending my DH out with treats now. Back to basics. I could not believe he understood that though! I could tell by the look in his eyes. My son was with us, and he was shocked by it.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> Oh gosh. It gets better. Today we went out and I said, "I'll give you a treat if you go potty." He looked up and me, right in the eye. I said, "yep I have treats" He IMMEDIATELY pooped (I gave him one of course). I'm sending my DH out with treats now. Back to basics. I could not believe he understood that though! I could tell by the look in his eyes. My son was with us, and he was shocked by it.


I think I've mentioned that each of mine had a back-slide after I thought they were fully potty trained. In Kodi's case, I was warned by another forum member to watch for it. I didn't believe her... thought he was totally reliable... she was right.

With the girls, I was watching for it, and true to form, it happened with them too. The good news is that because they had a very solid foundation, it didn't take long going back to "boot camp", and they were all right back on track again!


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

It's amazing how many words these little dogs understand. Often I find myself Spelling Out Words such Go Outside, Walk, Go in the Car, Eat and especially Treat, because Patti stops and looks up at me with those beautiful little brown eyes in anticipation .... *NOW?*


----------



## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Mikki said:


> It's amazing how many words these little dogs understand. Often I find myself Spelling Out Words such Go Outside, Walk, Go in the Car, Eat and especially Treat, because Patti stops and looks up at me with those beautiful little brown eyes in anticipation .... *NOW?*


I find myself spelling out words too. One of them is T-U-R-T-L-E!!! This is because my yorkie goes INSANE when he sees a turtle. So when my hubby and I are walking the dogs we are always on the lookout for them. We used to say the word turtle when we saw one but Bear figured out what this meant. So now we have to spell it out.


----------



## Bongo (Jun 1, 2019)

krandall said:


> I think I've mentioned that each of mine had a back-slide after I thought they were fully potty trained. In Kodi's case, I was warned by another forum member to watch for it. I didn't believe her... thought he was totally reliable... she was right.
> 
> With the girls, I was watching for it, and true to form, it happened with them too. The good news is that because they had a very solid foundation, it didn't take long going back to "boot camp", and they were all right back on track again!


So is it usually somewhere around a year when this happens? Koa's been pooping on the carpet in our bedroom when she had been reliably going on the tray in my office (next to the bedroom) and I'm getting a bit concerned that it's happened a few too many times now. I was starting to think maybe the indoor training was a mistake. I started closing off parts of my room but would forget to close a gate here and there and then find surprises on the carpet. I thought maybe I just needed to take her outside more often, in case she had developed a preference to go outside instead of inside, but, today I had just taken her out to go, she didn't go, and then less than 30 mins later she went on the carpet.

At a year old, for a dog who uses an indoor tray most of the time and therefore doesn't tell me when she has to go...she just goes...what does back to basics look like exactly?

Thanks!


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I would just move the tray into the bedroom for a while. if that solves the problem, then slowly move back to the office and practice going to the tray to go potty. I really think that will be enough, but if it isn’t you can set up an expen and confine more tightly, and slowly expand her space again. It’ll be faster this time. Something about the way you described it reminds me of a Kikopup video that ShamaMama shared around the time we got our puppy. It explained how they view their “home,” and about teaching them the path to the potty. 

It really doesn’t have anything to do with the indoor potty, IMO. Most likely she would have the same accidents if she was outdoor trained, probably more often because at her age she’s less likely to go to the door and signal someone to take her potty. She’s just at the age where she needs a reminder about the right place to go, and the best way to remind her is to confine her more. I wouldn’t give her enough freedom to wander to a room where you can’t see her for a while yet, even when this is resolved. If she’s out of sight, keep her in an expen, for a couple more months after this is resolved.


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I think I might have been assuming your set up was a certain way. It sounds like you might be working from home and spending a lot of time in your office, so the tray is there. Then she’s going into the bedroom by herself to go potty. If that’s the case, I wouldn’t let her in the bedroom alone. I’d spend some time playing in your bedroom with her and practicing the route to the potty. And again, she might be trained well enough to have free access to the room you’re in, but if you’re in the office, I wouldn’t give her the freedom to wander into the bedroom alone until this is completely resolved, and when you’re with her in the bedroom you are seeing her go from the bedroom to the potty tray on her own, and she hasn’t had any accidents for a couple of months.


----------



## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

krandall said:


> Husbands too. LOL!


Haha, there is an old movie titled If a Man Answers with Sandra Dee and Bobby Darin about training your husband using a dog obedience guide. I haven't seen it in ages but thought it was pretty comical at the time.


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Bongo said:


> So is it usually somewhere around a year when this happens? Koa's been pooping on the carpet in our bedroom when she had been reliably going on the tray in my office (next to the bedroom) and I'm getting a bit concerned that it's happened a few too many times now. I was starting to think maybe the indoor training was a mistake. I started closing off parts of my room but would forget to close a gate here and there and then find surprises on the carpet. I thought maybe I just needed to take her outside more often, in case she had developed a preference to go outside instead of inside, but, today I had just taken her out to go, she didn't go, and then less than 30 mins later she went on the carpet.
> 
> At a year old, for a dog who uses an indoor tray most of the time and therefore doesn't tell me when she has to go...she just goes...what does back to basics look like exactly?
> 
> Thanks!


My Precious is 2.5+ yrs old and indoor-potty tray trained. At 10-months Patti was trustworthy enough she was given access to three rooms in the house. Other parts were gated off. To everyone's surprise she went into Heat around 11-months and Lost Her Mind.

At that time I didn't have fenced yard and when walking Patti she would squat or raise her tiny leg :nerd: to mark every rock and blade of grass she came into contact with. When I brought her back into the house to my surprise :surprise: she immediately started to do the same thing in the house. I said, NO! and took to her potty tray saying, _Do Your Job...HERE. 
_
During those two weeks, Patti and I were bonded together with a leash inside the house because I didn't trust her. If I was working at my desk I would attach the leash to my chair. If I was watching TV and could keep an eye on her, I gated that room off (which had a potty tray) and took off the leash. Other times I put her in the ex-pen when keeping her with me was inconvenient.

Once her Heat Passed Patti was no long Crazy and had free rein of three rooms. Patti right away remembered what the Potty Tray's were for but for those two weeks we were Bonded even at night in bed.

*ANOTHER TIME*....Patti was going to the potty tray but started peeing or pooping beside the tray. I learned I needed to replace the Equine Pellets more often. She doesn't like a dirty tray.

*OUTSIDE*...Around 1+ years old, after we fenced our yard Patti would go out side and come right back in to use her Potty Tray. :| Hummmm! _I thought dogs preferred going outside._

Eventually, she got to where she preferred_ Doing Her Job_ outside and would wake me up in the middle of the night to go. :Cry: Then I worried: Oh NO! has she stopped using the indoor-potty. Although, I prefer that she go outside I want her to remember to use the indoor-potty tray. Not to worry. I occasionally found something on it.

*ANOTHER CHANGE:* Patti either asks to go outside or can go out on her own through a Doggie Door. This summer Patti reverted back to using the indoor-potty tray MOST of the time. *GOOD GRIEF*! I thought, what the heck is going on. I want her to use the potty tray but NOT ALL the time. :crying:

*MYSTERY SOLVED*: Wet Thick Grass. We had an unusually Wet year and a yard that was picture book perfect. Even after mowing the grass was so thick it was hard for a human to walk on. If it wasn't wet from rain it was wet from dew. Patti didn't like the Wet Grass.  When things dried out she was back to going outside.

We are currently vacationing in a small three story mountain town-home, with NO yard. It's very inconvenient to walk her three or four times a day. Even though it's been over a year since Patti was here, she knew what to do and uses the potty tray. I keep water bowels by two trays ... J_ust as a Reminder_...in case she needed that.

It won't take you long to get your little one back on Track. Leash her to you and keep a close eye on her. When you see her start to poop on the floor CLAP YOUR HANDS TO STOP HER. SAY NO! Pick her up and put her on the potty tray. An ex-pen with a potty tray will be helpful.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Bongo said:


> So is it usually somewhere around a year when this happens? Koa's been pooping on the carpet in our bedroom when she had been reliably going on the tray in my office (next to the bedroom) and I'm getting a bit concerned that it's happened a few too many times now. I was starting to think maybe the indoor training was a mistake. I started closing off parts of my room but would forget to close a gate here and there and then find surprises on the carpet. I thought maybe I just needed to take her outside more often, in case she had developed a preference to go outside instead of inside, but, today I had just taken her out to go, she didn't go, and then less than 30 mins later she went on the carpet.
> 
> At a year old, for a dog who uses an indoor tray most of the time and therefore doesn't tell me when she has to go...she just goes...what does back to basics look like exactly?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, with mine, it was around a year, but it can be any time after you think they are reliable.

It concerns me that it sounds like this has happened numerous times. You want to nip this kind of behavior in the bud! One poop or pee in the wrong place is an "accident. A second one should set off alarm bells. A thrid one, and you are allowing it to become a habit!!!

Going back to basics means STRICT confinement and/or supervision. The dog should not be out of your sight without being confined, so IF they start to make a mistake, you can correct them. Gently, but firmly. By this age, they DO know where they should go and not go. (Assuming this is a dog who has already established that they know that... we are NOT talking about a rescue dog here... I know there is a new one of those on the group)

With a dog who has been allowed to make multiple mistakes, as it sound like yours has, I would not allow them out of my sight for at LEAST a couple of months. I would not allow them unsupervised in the room where they have been having the accidents for MANY months. Instead, I would be taking them into that room throwing kibble on the floor in that area for them to find and eat, playing games there, and making a BIG deal that this is a fun place to be, and NOT a "quiet potty zone".

But once the "habit" of using a specific area has developed, it can take a LONG time and concerted effort to break that in that specific area. And this has NOTHING to do with indoor potty training, BTW. At least as many people with "outdoor potty only dogs" do this.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I would just move the tray into the bedroom for a while. if that solves the problem, then slowly move back to the office and practice going to the tray to go potty. I really think that will be enough, but if it isn't you can set up an expen and confine more tightly, and slowly expand her space again. It'll be faster this time. Something about the way you described it reminds me of a Kikopup video that ShamaMama shared around the time we got our puppy. It explained how they view their "home," and about teaching them the path to the potty.


Sorry, I usually totally agree with your advice, but not on this one. For me, the alarm bells are ringing on this one. This dog is too old, and it sounds to me like this has happened multiple times. It needs to be nipped in the bud and evry opportunity for another accident stopped IMMEDIATELY. Every time the dog practices it, is that many MORE reps needed to undo the damage done to training, I do not believe that a year old dog has suddenly "forgotten" the way into the other room, or "can't" make it there in time. This dog has found that this is a convenient place to go, and noone has taught her that it's not appropriate.



EvaE1izabeth said:


> It really doesn't have anything to do with the indoor potty, IMO. Most likely she would have the same accidents if she was outdoor trained, probably more often because at her age she's less likely to go to the door and signal someone to take her potty. She's just at the age where she needs a reminder about the right place to go, and the best way to remind her is to confine her more. I wouldn't give her enough freedom to wander to a room where you can't see her for a while yet, even when this is resolved. If she's out of sight, keep her in an expen, for a couple more months after this is resolved.


Absolutely agree with all of this!!!


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> Sorry, I usually totally agree with your advice, but not on this one. For me, the alarm bells are ringing on this one. This dog is too old, and it sounds to me like this has happened multiple times. It needs to be nipped in the bud and evry opportunity for another accident stopped IMMEDIATELY. Every time the dog practices it, is that many MORE reps needed to undo the damage done to training, I do not believe that a year old dog has suddenly "forgotten" the way into the other room, or "can't" make it there in time. This dog has found that this is a convenient place to go, and noone has taught her that it's not appropriate.
> 
> Absolutely agree with all of this!!!


I agree with you, I realized after I wrote it I was picturing a similar situation with my own puppy that was quickly resolved but made assumptions that weren't in line with the original post when I read it again. I think any time a puppy is finding a place away from people to go, it warrants closer confinement.

To be honest, my dog will probably never have complete freedom, and it's not really a potty training issue. He has complete freedom upstairs when someone is upstairs and complete freedom downstairs when someone is downstairs. But I don't think he really even had that until around 14 months.


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Nikki, I love all of your examples of the little changes and quirks in Patti’s potty habits. 

I think all puppies have some of these little changes they go through. Mine had to poop twice every time we took him out until he was around a year old. They may seem reliable earlier, but that’s why I lean towards waiting until they’re well past they seem ready to allow freedom. These are smart little dogs, but just because they understand how to use their potty tray doesn’t mean they are completely trained.


----------



## Bongo (Jun 1, 2019)

Thanks for the input everyone; appreciate the comments that it's nothing to do with indoor training. I should've restricted access to my bedroom sooner (and/or for longer). I gave her the benefit of the doubt too quickly after using the upstairs tray again after an accident. We've never had a pee accident; only poop; she seems to prefer softer surfaces for poop. I added a second tray to my office thinking that would help, and I thought I would catch her from my office, but I certainly didn't have eyes on well enough (or at all, really), while working. Lesson learned the hard way I guess.

On our main level, which is hardwood and tile, she hasn't had any accidents since the first puppy weeks bringing her home (and even that wasn't much). We still have her expen on the main level with her tray in the expen, and that is her preferred spot to go. I've been having second thoughts about that now, since her favorite potty is the corner of our living room, but I'm not about to move it now! We had just started giving her access to the entire main level (aside from the gated kitchen/living room area), and keeping eyes on her near the area rug in the dining room, but so far, she has always successfully run to her tray in the expen. 

It's only been on our second level carpeting where this has happened - and yes, that is where I work from home, in the office off of my bedroom. I can easily confine her in the office with me, where I have a vinyl sheet that covers most of the carpet (it's a relatively small room). I guess I was just feeling like by now she should have more freedom. It helps to read that others around this age were still only giving access to a few rooms. And EvaE1izabeth - that you still don't give complete freedom. We're at about 13 months now and I had started doing the same thing - freedom downstairs when i'm downstairs, and freedom upstairs when I'm upstairs. She has run to the office potty from upstairs rooms, so I thought we were in the clear, but maybe it wasn't established quite well enough yet, or I wasn't diligent enough after opening up more freedom. 

Mikki - thanks for all the examples! Koa doesn't like a dirty tray either. We created an outdoor gravel pit for her to go in once we fenced our backyard, which she will use, but I would NOT say she prefers her "potty pit" to her trays yet. Maybe if it were grass she would.

Krandall, Mikki, EvaE1izabeth - thank you all! I'll keep working on this! Our upstairs carpet is long overdue for replacement anyway. Maybe it's a good excuse to finally take care of it (and switch to vinyl plank) - not that that will solve my problem, just easier to clean. I'll keep her out of there a loong time as suggested. 

Have a good rest of your weekend


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Bongo said:


> It's only been on our second level carpeting where this has happened - and yes, that is where I work from home, in the office off of my bedroom. I can easily confine her in the office with me, where I have a vinyl sheet that covers most of the carpet (it's a relatively small room). I guess I was just feeling like by now she should have more freedom. It helps to read that others around this age were still only giving access to a few rooms. And EvaE1izabeth - that you still don't give complete freedom. We're at about 13 months now and I had started doing the same thing - freedom downstairs when i'm downstairs, and freedom upstairs when I'm upstairs. She has run to the office potty from upstairs rooms, so I thought we were in the clear, but maybe it wasn't established quite well enough yet, or I wasn't diligent enough after opening up more freedom.
> 
> Krandall, Mikki, EvaE1izabeth - thank you all! I'll keep working on this! Our upstairs carpet is long overdue for replacement anyway. Maybe it's a good excuse to finally take care of it (and switch to vinyl plank) - not that that will solve my problem, just easier to clean. I'll keep her out of there a loong time as suggested.


The thing is, that just like potty training children, there is no exact "time" on any of it. They are ready when they are ready, and not before. Every single one is different. And there is NO specific time when YOU should feel like you haven't done your job!

As far as the carpet is concerned, if your plan was to change from carpet to planking, that WILL help. Carpet hold odors MUCH more, which invites further accidents in the same place. It can make it almost impossible to prevent further accidents. We took up our dining room rug for that reason. After raising 3 puppies, it had had too many accidents on it, and it was an "accident waiting to happen. After removing it, we never had a SINGLE accident in there. But it wasn't a room we could gate off, since you need to go through it to get ANYWHERE in the house. So going without rugs in there was the right answer.

Since our whole house is hardwood and orientals, and we learned our lesson with the dining room rug, we have been OVER cautious with the family room. Well, that and we don't want rough-housing on our leather couches. The dogs are gated out of the family room at all times unless we are in there with them. We have never had an accident in there as a result.

The dogs also aren't allowed upstairs without us. There is no need for them to BE up there without us. The ONLY reason ANY of them go up there without us is trouble. In specific, Panda goes up there to unmake EVERY.SINGLE.BED in the ENTIRE house!!! You'd think she was playing Goldilocks and the Three Bears!!! As a result, the upstairs is gated off. They can go up if we go up. This has been doubly important since our granddaughter was living with us last year. They have moved out now, but they lived with us from her age 1-2. So SHE couldn't have access to the stairs either. So it just became "part of life" that the stairs were gated off.

...And ALL my dogs are ALWAYS gated in my office, with a litter box and their water bottle whenever we are out of the house. I know they are safe, can't get into trouble, and MOST important, we have decals on all doors telling firefighters where to find them in the event of a fire when we aren't home. Dogs die in fires when they get frightened and hide under beds and whatnot, where firefighters can't find them.


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

If you decided down the line you want to move the downstairs potty, I was trying to be extra careful and moved it a couple of feet every day. Maybe it was overkill, but he didn’t have any accidents. But I wouldn’t make a lot of changes at once, or during a bit of regression. I ended up using a low profile tray that slid under the bench in our mudroom if people were visiting (it’s by the guest bathroom) and it blended enough with the floor that it wasn’t even noticeable. There might be a way down the line to better incorporate it into your living room or move it somewhere on the same floor where it doesn’t bother you as much, but I think it’s smart to keep it where it is right now. 

DH thought our puppy should have a bit more freedom before I did. Honestly, I think he was hoping Sundance would come and find him to hang out in different parts of the house. Even when our gates are left open, he’s pretty much my shadow, so I don’t think that was really going to happen anyway


----------



## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

krandall said:


> The dogs also aren't allowed upstairs without us. There is no need for them to BE up there without us. The ONLY reason ANY of them go up there without us is trouble. I*n specific, Panda goes up there to unmake EVERY.SINGLE.BED in the ENTIRE house!!! You'd think she was playing Goldilocks and the Three Bears!!*! As a result, the upstairs is gated off.


*This made me LOL!!!! *This is one problem I don't have. Awwwww! such a fun thing for Panda to do. :grin2:

We, also, still have gates around the house depending on whose around. One is used to gate off our grandson's room because it's very expensive for Patti to be in their room without EYES ON HER. Best Buy finally quit offering insurance on Ear Buds and I think it's directly related to Patti. Eye Glasses are still endanger, as are Pens. Patti just got a hold of my digital art pen. I now have a new one. It's wasn't on the floor. It was "safely" on the top of my desk but my chair happened to be in a perfect spot.

There must be some Ancient Cat DNA in the Havanese breed. No matter where you try to put things they're so resourceful if there's away to jump on top of a counter they'll be up there.


----------



## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I guess I must be lucky. Neither of my dogs have ever chewed up anything! My yorkie has always stolen socks but he just takes them into his crate and lays on them. I have a friend with a daschund who periodically eats an entire pencil, including metal and eraser. She says it just passes through!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Mikki said:


> There must be some Ancient Cat DNA in the Havanese breed. No matter where you try to put things they're so resourceful if there's away to jump on top of a counter they'll be up there.


We call Pixel the "cat-dog"


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I guess I must be lucky. Neither of my dogs have ever chewed up anything! My yorkie has always stolen socks but he just takes them into his crate and lays on them. I have a friend with a daschund who periodically eats an entire pencil, including metal and eraser. She says it just passes through!


You are, indeed, lucky! Pixel doesn't chew things, and Panda is pretty selective. (Ear buds, and glasses... she only goes for EXPENSIVE things! LOL!) Kodi Will steal any paper he can get to, or anything wood, like pencils, rulers, paint stirrers (those are a REAL favorite!!!) small branches smuggled in from the back yard if the back door is left open, pieces of plastic... He is really pretty terrible.


----------



## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

I’m fairly lucky in this regard. Denver will only go after paper. Keeper is a chewer and will chew anything. But he loves shoes. With a passion. He tries to take them to bed. But it’s making us put them away (most of the time).


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Wulfin said:


> I'm fairly lucky in this regard. Denver will only go after paper. Keeper is a chewer and will chew anything. But he loves shoes. With a passion. He tries to take them to bed. But it's making us put them away (most of the time).


Sundance loves shoes, too, but doesn't chew them anymore. He did chew flip flops as a puppy. I had to buy my kids a lot of pool shoes his first summer with us. Now he just smells them and uses them to try and entice us to play. He also learned how to take my kids' socks off of their feet and then shake them around. My kids let him because they love it - except when they were trying to leave for school! Shoes and socks have so many smells...


----------



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> You are, indeed, lucky! Pixel doesn't chew things, and Panda is pretty selective. (Ear buds, and glasses... she only goes for EXPENSIVE things! LOL!) Kodi Will steal any paper he can get to, or anything wood, like pencils, rulers, paint stirrers (those are a REAL favorite!!!) small branches smuggled in from the back yard if the back door is left open, pieces of plastic... He is really pretty terrible.


Sundance would probably get into more wood if I hadn't figured out that's what he loves. We had an incident with a paint stirrer, and one or two with paintbrushes. He also took a wood shim that didn't have weight on it yet, and he was so fast about it I didn't know he took it, and I leveled a shelving unit completely wrong. I usually remember now and keep wood out of his reach. Pencils are the main culprit, though, because they fall out of backpacks and pockets, get left around for homework, etc.


----------



## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

My main problem with chewing “bad stuff” is my yorkie eating acorns and cicadas. During the year of the big cicada swarm he went nuts eating cicada skeletons and made himself sick. Lots of dogs in our area were getting sick from overdosing on them. Every fall we have our annual acorn digestive issue...probably due for that soon. He can cleverly carry five or six into the house without me knowing about it. I always keep slippery elm bark powder on hand. I make a paste of it and put it on his food. It coats the digestive system and just about anything will slide out.


----------

