# Breeder and vet disapointment



## maria v (Oct 31, 2007)

Hi everyone: This is the lil story about Paco's adoption
When I was ready to adopt I did what i thought i did good research, including talking to the vets office about the breeder " a very respectable breeder" , was told, I paid for a bile acid test in an attempt to ensure that everything was fine.
Got my puppy and with it a health certificate . This certificate noted a heartworm test and fecal test on the form. This form was signed by a vet and there was a certification that the animal was healthy. To me that meant they were done. I had spoken to the breder about products she used and she mentioned a generic for Heart Guard. Never told me she had not done the test on the puppy ( he was over 6 months when I got it)

When I took Paco to the vet in NJ they wanted a note saying the result of the heartworm test ( I guess this vet knew better).
The test had not been done!! , when I called the vets office they even say that the form was " misleading" 
This particular breeder show so I expected to be just fine.
I guess my only consolation is that I was able to check both parents , one of them b/c of age had not had one of the tests done , forgot which one.

I just have the test( heartworm) done, hopefully everything is fine.
I do not know what advise to give anyone regarding checking references.
Where did I do wrong??
PS The breeder is in IOWA


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Maria!
Sorry to hear about your bad luck? Even alot of research and the like still sometimes leads to heartache/issues it seems.. hmmm
Which breeder did you get your puppy from? website?

Ryan


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## maria v (Oct 31, 2007)

*disapointment*

Well, my dog AKA name is Majical Dusty.
Hope this will help you


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Maria - I can understand your disappointment but not having a heartworm test isn't the end of the world - your vet was smart and knew to check the result. He's young. Just have the test done and start the heartworm meds if you are in an area that's important you do so. You at least did some research and that's what counts.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi again,

Ok, yeah, that helped.. lol..
Website is pretty lean on info, but what can ya do.. I'm sure yous poke to the breeders...
I'm sure he will be fine! But you should let your breeder know what you 'found out' to try to keep the lines of communication open, atleast! 

Ryan


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## maria v (Oct 31, 2007)

*Thanks for your comments*

I guess what bother me the most is being mislead. I sure hope everything will be fine
Keep you posted


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## melissaj4 (Feb 10, 2008)

Is that Majical as in Florida or Majical as in Iowa?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Could you call the breeder and speak with her. Maybe if she knows how you feel, she would be willing to reimburse you for the expenses.

Amanda


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## maria v (Oct 31, 2007)

*misc*

Majical as in IOWA.

I sent the breeeder an email prior to "know " that the test had not been done, and some pics of my Paco ( probably last Wed nite). I know the vet's office had contacted her.
I have not heard a word.
The expense is not the problem.. but , I need to let go of this, back to paper training this head strong dude !!!!:crazy:


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## melissaj4 (Feb 10, 2008)

I got my Tux from Sissie as well. I also got him at 6 months old.
He was 100% healthy and is a wonderful little dog. 
All of her havanese parents are champions and get their Chic numbers as soon as they are older enough. 
She has also been there for me if I had any questions. I would recommend her to anyone looking for a show or pet puppy.
I wouldn't worry so much about the heart worm test. Her dogs are in an indoor kennel in *Iowa*. I'm sure there have been no mosquito's there in months!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

maria v said:


> Got my puppy and with it a health certificate . This certificate *noted *a heartworm test and fecal test on the form. This form was *signed by a vet *and there was a certification that the animal was healthy. To me that meant they were done.


(Bold emphasis mine)

When you say that the heartworm and fecal tests were noted, do you mean they were general options on the form, or were they specifically marked as "clear" or "normal"? If so, the veterinarian signed it. I'd be more curious why he/she is signing forms saying something has been done when it hasn't.

I know you feel like you were taken for a ride, but I really don't know any breeders that do heartworm testing on pups before they go to their new homes. Is that common? Heartworm testing & treatment seems to vary so much among areas and owners. I live near water and have a huge mosquito problem in the summer and fall, but I only recently started doing heartworm treatments, and definitely _not_ on puppies. I would leave that option up to the new owners to pursue or not.

If this is the only thing that has gone amiss in your dealings with Paco's breeder, I think you're doing great. It sounds like you did all your homework and there is no way to do enough reference checking to prevent a misunderstanding like that.

I look forward to hearing more about Paco!


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## dschles (Jan 23, 2007)

While I am not an expert on this, I do not believe puppies are ever tested for heartworm. I think this is just a misunderstanding created by your NJ vet.

Here is what it says on the Foster and Smith site:

Puppies under seven months of age can be started on heartworm preventives without first being tested. This is because it can take up to six and one half months after being bitten by infected mosquitoes before the dog will test positive. The puppy should be tested four to seven months after starting heartworm preventive to detect any infection acquired during the first few months of life. Consult with your veterinarian to determine the right testing schedule for your pet.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Diane, thank you for posting that. Drs Foster & Smith seem to keep a lot of good, solid information on their site, so I'd tend to lean towards what they post (unless it was understood to be negative for our breed, or our individual dogs, obviously). I am still in the learning stages of finding solid information on heartworm, so I'm glad to read that. I hope it is helpful to the OP, Maria, too.


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## maria v (Oct 31, 2007)

*healthy pups*

Well Melisa it is good to know you had a very good experience. My pup ( in addition to what I mentioned) was quite unsocialized, but we are working on it,I am glad toknow that yours are Ok. How old are they ?
If you want you can email me at my address
Maria V


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## maria v (Oct 31, 2007)

*puppies and heartworm test*

I think ( from what I have read that a test should be done at 6 months of age, 
maybe ia m wrong


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

dschles said:


> While I am not an expert on this, I do not believe puppies are ever tested for heartworm. I think this is just a misunderstanding created by your NJ vet.
> 
> Here is what it says on the Foster and Smith site:
> 
> Puppies under seven months of age can be started on heartworm preventives without first being tested. This is because it can take up to six and one half months after being bitten by infected mosquitoes before the dog will test positive. The puppy should be tested four to seven months after starting heartworm preventive to detect any infection acquired during the first few months of life. Consult with your veterinarian to determine the right testing schedule for your pet.


That's absolutely correct. Puppies are not tested until 6 months of age BUT heartguard should be given and started young then dogs should be tested yearly. It's simple blood test and the results are read right in the office and you get the results in 15 minutes. Heartworm is transfered by mosquitos. Where ever there are mosquitos there are chances of heartworm. Regardless of inside or out. Mosquitos get in the house all the time. Some people used to opt to not give the heartguard because it wasnt prevelent in certain areas but now it's everywhere and it will kill your dog. Tretment is extremely costly and painful, prevention is much better. 
I'm a little confused about the test on the form. Maybe I missed something but Health certificates are a general form. They are not specific to age or breed. They have boxes on them for things like tests and then results of the tests. Just because the box is on there it doesnt mean it was done. THe box would be checked and the results would be there saying either negative or positive.
I give Heartguard to all my dogs and the puppies and also make sure the new owners continue treatment. It also kills other parasites like Hookworm and roundworm wich your dogs should be wormed for one a year anyway so it's a great prevenitive all around.


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## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

> My pup ( in addition to what I mentioned) was quite unsocialized


This is a concern. It seems to me like this breeder has A LOT of dogs and puppies. I wonder how much attention they get. Doesn't she breed Papillons too? She seems to always have puppies listed on puppyfind.com.


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## maria v (Oct 31, 2007)

*thanks*

It is reassuring to hear


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## melissaj4 (Feb 10, 2008)

Well according to her website she has 8 havanese adults!
I dont know if she has paps or not, it doesnt say on her website.
If you have a problem with this amount of dogs you need to stay
away from some of the bigger breeders that have Alot!
Most of these people have some of the best lines in the breed.

If you dont want to buy from someone who has more than a few 
dogs then dont, if it concerns you. 
As for me when I look for a dog, I look for... health tested parents, Ch parents with 
good pedigrees, a nice type (I dont like certain types of havs) and lastly a knowledgable, helpful breeder. 
Everyone would love to get a puppy completely potty trained and socialized but that doesnt always happen!


Maria emailed you the other day like you asked and I havent heard back.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

melissaj4 said:


> Well according to her website she has 8 havanese adults!
> I dont know if she has paps or not, it doesnt say on her website.
> If you have a problem with this amount of dogs you need to stay
> away from some of the bigger breeders that have Alot!
> ...


I actually think Sissie might have/had some puppies that she is offering through another breeder that is out of the Minneapolis suburban area. I was looking at all of the Minnesota breeders with pups right now "just in case." (shhh! don't tell the DH)!

Here is a link to the other breeder's site.

Melissa, you are totally right that you mostly just have to choose what you feel personally comfortable with. I am so glad you are so happy with Tux, he looks just beautiful and it seems Sissie is involved with a lot of showing and health testing. You are so right about it being so different and going with what you're heart tells you is right.


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## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

I like a well socialized puppy. A good tempered puppy is as important to me as Health testing. So I tend to look at Breeders who only have 1-2 litters a year max. Jeez, the last puppy I looked at, the Breeder had had 2 litters in 3 years and her pups were wonderful (and parents fully health tested). So as you say, we look for what's important to us.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

It sounds like to me, the vet might be the one who mislead you. The first vet, not yours. Im sure your puppy is fine and I hope the tests came back negative. 

If she is doing health testing on her dogs and getting Chic numbers, then she is ahead of some breeder stories we hear here. 

I would just enjoy your puppy and take lots of photos.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

I agree that socialization and health are equally important. The first puppy we looked at was so shy that we worried she was not socialized enough. And her brother was the opposite . . . too high strung. It was heartbreaking not to take them home, but I just didn't have a good feeling about them or the place.

Jackson was raised in a breeder's home and was the only one in his litter, but at least had other puppies with which to socialize. Along this line, though, I have been frustrated that my breeder has yet to deliver papers for Jackson. The breeder was recommended with much experience and he does a few other breeds . . . beautiful King Charles and Cotons . . . and I was shown all the health testing, etc. I got Jackson at 12 weeks and he has checked out perfectly and was well socialized, but the parents were imported from Hungary. The breeder told me the AKC is requiring a DNA swab test on the sire which apparently takes awhile. I thought the Hungarian registry was recognized here, but apparently there is some question. Does anyone have experience with this? It was the breeder's first Havanese breeding, so I know I was taking a risk, but he guaranteed the health and the parents were on site and so wonderful . . . and then one look at Jackson . . .


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Jackson was raised in a breeder's home and was the only one in his litter, but at least had other puppies with which to socialize. Along this line, though, I have been frustrated that my breeder has yet to deliver papers for Jackson. The breeder was recommended with much experience and he does a few other breeds . . . beautiful King Charles and Cotons . . . and I was shown all the health testing, etc. I got Jackson at 12 weeks and he has checked out perfectly and was well socialized, but the parents were imported from Hungary. The breeder told me the AKC is requiring a DNA swab test on the sire which apparently takes awhile. I thought the Hungarian registry was recognized here, but apparently there is some question. Does anyone have experience with this? It was the breeder's first Havanese breeding, so I know I was taking a risk, but he guaranteed the health and the parents were on site and so wonderful . . . and then one look at Jackson . . .


I see this is an old post but I'm curious to find out what happened with the DNA test?


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