# sore red bottom:(



## cindi21 (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi Everyone! My 8 year old havanese has a sore, red, infected bottom!!!!I've taken him to 4 different vets and a dermatologist, who after much testing, all concur that he's allergic chicken or beef. I've had him on the zd hypo-allergenic diet plus he gets an antibiotic shot every 2 weeks, but it's not getting any better. I've tried raw duck, as well as other dog foods with other sources of protein, but nothing is helping. Topically, we've tried everything... baby diaper cream, steroid sprays, hemoroid cream, antibiotic creams, vasaline, and even olive oil, but nothing is helping! We've also tried allergy medicine. He's so miserable, I've been using pain meds for him. If anyone has any info that might help, please let me know!!!!! Thank you! Cindi


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## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

Poor baby! That sounds terrible. I don't have any experience with allergies but I hope someone else has some advice for you. Hope he feels better soon


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Your poor baby and poor you! I know it is very distressful when we can't help our pups get better quickly. My dog Yogi has a very inflammed red rear (it is starting to get better) but his is from a uti, it hurts him when he poops and walks, he is on his 4th series of antibiotics, they will end after Nov., this means he will have been on for about 3 months, we did extensive testing and finally sent samples to NC State Vet school and they recommended the treatment he is on, he will also be tested after this course. The reason his rear is so inflamed and red is his licking it, thats what dogs do when they hurt, they lick and it colors the fur and can cause yeast. 

I was told to keep the area dry and clean, so after Yogi poops I wash and blow dry his rear and distract him so he does not lick. I would suggest watching for licking and trying to prevent it. Dyes in some dog treats can cause the redness but not inflamation. 

I don't know where you live, but this year has been a very bad flea season, did your Vet check for tape worms, they can cause a red sore bottom, even dogs on flea products can get them, all they need to do is eat one infected flea, the worm preventitives do not help with these, they need a different treatment. It's just a thought. 

As for food allergies, I have a older Lhasa and he has a true allergy (most food allergies in dogs are not allergies they are sensitivities, like humans with lactose intolarence), Boo Boo can not have wheat or corn, they cause him to get a rash and his whole body to swell up...he then has to have IV steriods for a few days, we have not had it for years since I quite feeding the birds any mix with corn (he will go out and eat it). Also we do not feed him chicken, nothing wrong with chicken it's a matter of if they are corn fed. He has never been treated with an antibiotic shot for allergies (maybe thats new). Severe food allergies are very rare in dogs but some breeds have more then others. 

I hope your pup gets better soon, if you feel the need to switch Vet's again consider a teaching hospital, in the long run is costs less and you know quickly, hopefully your pup is on the mend, try keeping the area dry and watch for licking...they will hid and do it. All the best and hope your pup is better soon.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

has your pup been tested for allergies??


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## JazzFest13 (Mar 12, 2012)

My 3 yr old black lab has terrible allergies, and from what I hear they only get worse with age. He also dealt with months of a sore red bum, and it was exhausting to him, me, and my wallet with all those vet visits and nothing working.

Since it's so difficult to narrow down what a dog is actually allergic to, I had to eliminate as many allergens as I possible could...both environmental and food. 

Jazz has been on Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Diet Duck and Potato since he's been a puppy. I had him on that Prescription Z/D Diet when he was younger, but I there are other over-the-counter allergy-free foods available. You've got to find your Hav a protein that he's never ever had. Venison? Buffalo? It must be limited ingredient and grain-free. Many dogs develop grain allergies. With that said, you must limit treats and chewies to those that fall under his Limited Ingredient Diet. Also, remember that it takes about a month on a new food to see positive results. Don't switch after only a few weeks or you'll just expose your pup to more allergens. 

Jazz also has flea allergies, but he doesn't get an itchy red bum from that, he loses his fur from scratching and biting at the flea bites. I use Trifexis, an oral flea, heartworm, and round worm med to keep them at bay. 

I also give Jazz a Zyrtec a day. I guess it's getting popular for vets to recommend. 

Hope your pup finds some relief soon.


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## cindi21 (Oct 5, 2012)

The dermatologist didn't recommend it, he said that Trevor would have to be put to sleep for the procedure, it costs $600, and the results aren't very acurrate. If you believe this to be wrong, please let me know, as I would try just about anything at this point If you think I should, let me know what procedure you think is a good one, I've heard of a saliva test as well as a test that's similar to our "scratch test"


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## cindi21 (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi Tammy and Tillie! My last post was in reply to your allergy test question


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## cindi21 (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi Robbie! Thank you so much for the advise....one of the doctor's concerns was the moisture since he holds his little tail down I'll try the cleaning/blow drying to see if that helps He's been tested for flees as well as other little critters, but nothing came back positive. I've had him in an inflatable cone so he doesn't lick the area. Did you have Yogi tested for allergies to figure out what he was allergic to?


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## cindi21 (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi Jazzfest! Thank you so much for your post! When you say it takes a month to see results, would I see anything positive or negative in the first few days, so I would know if I'm on the right track? When Jazz tried the ZD diet, did that work for him? I guess I'm surprised that it doesn't seem to be working for Trevor...I would think they would have the protein/grain thing all worked out....does the ZD diet not work for some dogs? I had one person tell me that she cooks salmon for her dog every night, but I'm concerned that it's not a balanced diet. Someone else suggested that I start with just white rice for a week, and then add salmon to that. I'd be happy to cook dinner for him if it would help, but one vet said it's not nutritious enough. I've been to the teaching vet her in Chicago, connected to the University of Chicago, and so far their approach is the same as the other 3 vets and dermatologist. (antibiotics/zd diet)


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

have you considered getting a consult with a dog nutritionist if you are concerned with getting enough nutrients and would be open to cooking for your hav, it might be something to consider....


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

cindi21 said:


> The dermatologist didn't recommend it, he said that Trevor would have to be put to sleep for the procedure, it costs $600, and the results aren't very acurrate. If you believe this to be wrong, please let me know, as I would try just about anything at this point If you think I should, let me know what procedure you think is a good one, I've heard of a saliva test as well as a test that's similar to our "scratch test"


sorry, just saw this! 
My vet, after rulling out parasites or other icky's, went straight to a blood test.
Tillie had horrible "pustules" all over her head and neck when I took her in.
I can find the name of the test later tonight. She did not have the scratch test done. It was after the results came back that I consulted with Sabine (the nutritionist) and got started on her diet. She's been on it for a year and a 1/2 now and is the picture of health!! eace:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

you said " I'd be happy to cook dinner for him if it would help, but one vet said it's not nutritious enough" With advice like this, who needs enemies. It doesn't matter what our dogs are reactive to , only yours. I would seek out another vet/allergy specialist and also talk to someone about food alllergies ie pet nutritionist, as Tammy mentioned.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Cindi, My Hav Yogi does not have allergies he has a UTI with pain in the rectum, so he licks it, this is what has caused the inflamed bottom, keeping it dry has helped, you can also apply a bit of cornstarch to the hair to help dry it, if it becomes damp due to licking.

My Lhasa has the allgeries we had testing done at CA State Davis in about 2002 they did put him under he was young at the time, he had a large shaved area near the stomach and arm pit area with lots rised dots after, we did hyposensitization shots for 2 years, we did these at home and our Vet gave them to us weekly (we lived in So CA), we were lucky often dogs need these for life. He also has a flea allergy so, flea control is a must, and the food allergies were found after he was rushed to the vet after digging in the trash and having a bad reaction first the wheat, my daughter had thrown out some horrible wheat muffins she made. The corn was found years latter after he ate one of the cobs a squirrel brought in to the yard. Boo Boo's head gets big like someone who has a crinal bleed, he also gets raised spots and his hair will start falling out...really scary also his body will swell if he does not get to the vet soon. It was very hard in those day to find a commerical food that had no wheat gluten, today there are many choices. Cooking for your dog can work if food is the problem, but you do need to consult an expert so you get the proper balance of vitamins and other things.

If you can get your pups bottom under control, you may be able to wait and see if the problem is seasonal or if going to a certain area causes it to come back or maybe it will not come back. Work with your vet and ask if it's possible to go in small steps. We did the allergy testing after a year and a half of large Vet bills, but we got a referral to a major teaching hospital, who then worked with our Vet for aftercare. Hope your pup gets better soon.


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## cindi21 (Oct 5, 2012)

Thank you all so much! Right now I'm boiling salmon and white rice....and putting diaper creme on his little bottom. I know the salmon/rice is lacking in some vitamins, but I thought if I could get his bottom problem under control, I can balance his food in a few weeks. I'm researching the best allergist in chicago right now I had just heard about the cornstarch a few days ago...so glad you mentioned it!


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

We had a sharpei that did real well on dog food that was lamb and rice based. We had to get the feed store to order it. It worked wonders.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Allergies are so frustrating. My Cash has them. It will take a while once you hit upon the right food. Perhaps weeks. Are there other symptoms you notice besides the sore butt? I ask because they may get better first. For instance, with Cash, first his eyes cleared, then his ears and lastly his hot spots. But switching around, you'll never know what it was that made him better. Our vet recommended Bison as an alternate source. We were already feeding commercial raw, so I just switched to their bison... Amazingly, it worked. Have you ever tried grain free? What made the vets think chicken or beef? 

But during this, we also worked topically. We bathed him (just his hot spots) in chlorihexidem shampoo. You have to dry your dog completely after. And followed with tresaderm 2 x a day. Tresederm is usually used for ear infections...it is an anti fungal, anti bacterial, and steroid all in one. Ask your vet about it. We always keep it in the house. Good for infected bites too.

I have found when these guys get an allergic hot spot they usually become bacterial and/or fungal cause they have so much hair and stay moist a lot of the time.


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## cindi21 (Oct 5, 2012)

*food allergies*

Thank you soooo much for your post!! I'm going to get the special shampoo as well as the tresederm! Trevor went back to the vets today, he got another antibiotic shot (every two weeks) as well as he got a shot of prednizone (sp?) for the swelling and more pain killers. The vet thinks we should take him off the salmon and put him back on the ZD ultra hypoallergenic. Unfortunately, as everyone has said, she said these skin problems can take 10-12 weeks to improve, but it's the only way to figure out the problem I asked about the allergy test, and she said they don't work very well for food allergies. Thanks so much for the tips, I'll try them right away! Cindi


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi Cindi. Glad Trevor got some stuff to relieve him. the ZD may be very helpful right now. The ingredients are super hydrolized to make the ingredients less allergenic. But it is probably not the ultimate solution for Trevor as there is no real food in there, and if the vet thinks chicken is the problem, chicken (albeit hydrolized) is a key ingredient.

Specific Veterinary diets do have their place for acute cased like Trevor. But they usually are not very good long term dog foods. Sadly, the only real way to access allergies are an elimination diet, which is very time consuming and frustrating. But there is an allergy/intollerance saliva test put out by jean dodds and hemopet... which can at least give you a place to start.

http://nutriscan.org/

if you want to pursue a home made elimination diet-- Sabine who is mentioned quite frequently here can help. she is terrific. just find the tab for consultation. her prices are very reasonable for the info and help you get.

http://www.betterdogcare.com/

But I would like to know why the vets thought food allergies if they did not test? fall is a great time for seasonal allergies rear their heads.

And I just have to throw out there... Cash completely turned around when we switched to commercial frozen raw. Every dog is different, but from my research I think grains are a huge source of skin allergies in dogs. So I would think eliminating grains would be an easy place to start. There are many brands out there of both grain free canned and kibble-- but also commercial raw which has no grain, but also has no synthetic vitamins (which may have been cash's problem) We use Nature's Variety. But Bravo, and Primal are also readily available. If the vets suspects chicken and beef for what ever reason, try a complete balanced raw lamb diet. Save the more exotic proteins like venison, bison, duck, rabbit til you know he does not tolerate the more common proteins. try this for a month and see if there are any signs of improvement? do trevor's eyes run? does he scratch? these may clear up before his butt does.

good luck. and we would love pictures of your boy!

oh and ps. the prednisone may make him pee more... be ready to take him out more frequently.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

great advice Missy. My bias is towards Sabine. If its' food related , the elimination diet is best. Vet foods suck. If food isn't the issue, at least you'll get an idea what a healthy food can do.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I was trying to be diplomatic about science diet Dave  I do think if you are ripping your hair out, and don't have the where-with-all to do an elimination diet, or are not ready for home made... There are options out there. As you know, i failed home cooked and made Cash worse! And just knew I didn't have it in me to work to redo the recipe one ingredient at a time.

Sabine by the way can help you find a commercial food too that works for your situation...and that consult is vey reasonable.


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## cindi21 (Oct 5, 2012)

After going to the vets yesterday, Trevor has the worst case of diarhea I have ever seen....I'm guessing it was the steroid shot.... as if he wasn't miserable enough!! Ok, so I need a little clarification.....I can do the home cooking, I can do the elimination diet, but I was told it takes 10-12 weeks to see if it's working. Is that true? It just breaks my heart to see him like this, and not know if what I'm doing is helping or making things worse....shouldn't I see some improvement after a few days? My vet's idea was to get him through this rough time with the ZD, but if the allergy is to chicken, will even the hydrolized chicken protein bother him? Is it possible that he will be allergic to the ZD diet also??? I tried a raw duck diet, but it had carrots in it, and that's the only treat he was getting when this latest problem started, so after a week, I went back to the ZD. (During that week, I didn't see any improvement, but it was probably too early to tell) Trevor has been suffering with this for at least 6 months, and 4 vets and a dermatologist all said it was food, not environmental allergies. He doesn't scratch anywhere and his eyes are fine....the only other place that's red and irritated is the sides of his mouth. The dermatologist did a test where they put scotch tape in between his paws, on his bottom etc and ran tests, he's also been tested for every bug imaginable, as well as had his glands checked and his buttom flushed. Dave, I appreciate the comment on the ZD, I'm well-past being diplomatic at this point, just give me any advise you can!!!! I'm actually very grateful, as 2 of the vets I asked said it was perfectly fine to put all my dogs on the ZD diet....nice to know it's not even food!! Grrrrrrrrr!!! I'll be getting them off it asap!! Thank you for the links you sent, I'm going to them now Cindi


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

my heart is breaking for your sweet hav... and for you. I know how hard it is to see our children suffer...:hug: If I were you I would get a food allergy test done immediatly. either the blood one or the saliva one, which ever you can and contact Sabine asap.
Tillie has a massive allergy to chicken, so if I were to have followed the (very wonderful) advice of putting her on chicken and rice instead of being stubborn and insisting on the allergy testing we probably would be where you are right now...


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Cindi, has there been any improvement in the last week?

Did the Vets discuss/test for Inflammatory Bowel Disease? Poor Trevor and poor you.


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## cindi21 (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi, Thanks for checking in with us....Trevor is still on prednisone and antibiotic, they've increased the dosage of the prednisone, but now the vet is suspecting that he might have perianal fistulas. It's not common in Havanese, mainly German Sheperds, but it's possible. We're going to put a cyclosporine cream on him, and continue with the ZD diet and see what happens. His bottom still isn't any better, so the vet recommended we try this route. I've requested a blood test, so we can get a better idea on food allergies, which are also common with PF. I'd love to put him on real food, rather than this ZD stuff, but right now, I'm afraid to do any more switching! Keep us in your prayers, it's heartbreaking to see him so miserable Cindi


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## Anna6 (Oct 21, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear he is still strugling. Prayers said for Trevor and you.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Oh I am sorry to hear this. In a way this makes more sense, since if it was a food allergy his itching and sores would be everywhere. I hope the cyclosporin works--- is there anything stronger? could they flush his glands/buts with antibiotics? 

I don't know if you can get him to sit in it.. but if you had a small tub and you could make an epsom salt bath (1 cup) , with a little baking soda 1/2 cup) in warm water. not only would it sooth but it will also a detox-- if you could keep his butt in it for 20 minutes that would be best...but even 10. just keep a handful of treats. 

I agree, it's best not switch right now. and I am glad you are getting the tests.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

I am so sorry that your poor Trevor is not better yet, but it sounds as if your Vet has a plan of action (with your input). Sending healing thoughts for Trevor.


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## cindi21 (Oct 5, 2012)

*bottom alittle better !!!!*

I'm soooo happy to report that Trevor's bottom is looking better!!! The vet increased his prednisone dosage, and after 4 days, I'm seeing improvement!! We're still waiting for the cyclosporin to arrive (they had to order the cream because he gets sick from the tablets). As far as the flushing, he's had that done once, but I'll ask when he has his next dental. The vet said I had to wait until he was off all meds for 6 weeks before I can do the allergy blood test, which is a bummer....I'd love to get him off the ZD as soon as possible!! I had tried the bath with epsom salts a few weeks ago, and he almost jumped out of the tub it hurt so bad, but now that there's been some healing, I bet it would be more soothing for him. I hope and pray this is all due to just an allergy, which would be such an easy thing in comparison to the perianal fistuals...the fact that his gums were inflamed and irritated too, gives me some hope!!!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

awwwwww, LOVE the picture! thanks for sharing!
SO happy to hear your little guy if finally getting some relief!!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Very happy to hear that he is beginning to heal. What an adorable picture of the little man with your daughter I assume. 

keep us posted... oh if things are healing, don't bother with the epsom bath... best to leave success alone.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

I am so glad to read that Trevor is improving, and he and your little girl sure are adorable. I agreevwith Missy: skip the sitz baths.

I also think you can feed him the Science Diet for as long as it is needed, and it really won't hurt him. There are enough nutrients in there for his body to use as long as he is actually eating it.

Keep up the good work!


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