# Dry food without FLAX?



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Hello All: wondering if you could do me a favor and check your bags of kibble for flax as an ingredient. I have spent hours in my pet store reading ingredients. The "pro plan chicken and rice puppy" I am feeding both Cash and now Jasper doesn't have it- and Jasper's itching has almost stopped....yeah. But, his tear and beard staining has returned.  By my own investigation (not scientific) I feel that JAS was reacting to flax and that something in the Pro-Plan is encouraging yeast- wheat perhaps?) So I am looking for a higher end kibble that I can feed them both, without flax or wheat. (the Bravo site referenced flax making dogs itchy) 

I have found two so far. Timberwolf, wild and natural which is a grain free but does have potato for carbs. And Innova adult- but not puppy. 

Does anyone have experiece with these two foods- the timberwolf looks kind of rich. Would the Innova adult be ok for a 4 1/2 month old puppy? 

I am very torn, because for the first time in his 14 months- Jasper is eating kibble with just a little wet food (evangers 100% meat) mixed in. But I hate the stains, but I love that he is not as itchy. But I guess I am also a little bit of a snob and would like them to be eating something other than Purina. 

thanks for your help.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Missy, I used to give Ricky Innova dry kibble for puppies and wouldn't recommend the adult version for a while yet, I dont' think. I hear it is quite rich and can be a strain on some kidneys... I think ..? I am slowly changing Ricky's to adult because at 8 mths., he's def. big enough and doesn't need the puppy stuff anymore. He'll probably be on it fulltime in a few weeks.

That food, "Natural Balance" has flaxseed oil, but so far no negative effects on Ricky.


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Hi Missy, I feed Sam Royal Canin "Shih Tzu" food. It doesn't have flax or flaxseed but it does have wheat gluten. Sam does have tear stains


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

My first two Havs were on Innova (puppy first, then adult) and it was a little too rich for their systems. Whenever we had a major change in our routine (trip for the weekend, vaccines, etc.), we ended up with very loose stools for three-five days. Since I keep my dogs in a full coat, that was not a pleasant experience. I utilize three different veterinarians and started using Innova kibble based on the advice of one. The second vet informed me that even though the ingredients are very good, it may be too rich for a sensitive Havanese stomach. I left Innova (despite my agreement that I did like the ingredient list) and haven't had any loose stools (except for illness) in almost two years.

That doesn't answer your flax or wheat gluten question, but I just wanted to tell you about my Innova experience. I love the company, but no longer use it for my Havs.


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

What food do you give them now?


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Missy - I really like Innova and never had problems with the food being too rich for Bugsy. I currently feed all three Evo (also by Innova), it is all meat, no grain, no flaxseed food. It is very rich, as all the high protein diets. But, they do put out Evo RM (stand for Red Meat) and Evo RF (stands for Reduced fat). The Evo RF has quite a bit less fat than regular Evo. Both regular and RM Evo have 42% protein, 22% fat and reduced has 52% protein and 15.5% fat. None have flaxseed.

Having said that, Bugsy currently decided to go on food strike and it takes all my effort to get him to eat 1/4 cup of kibble mixed with soft the entire day and a few kibbles here and there....sigh. He used to eat 1/4 cup 3 times a day. He is not sick and is as payful and active as ever. He would prefer to eat just table food.....sigh.

Kimberly - what do you feed your dogs?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Doggie Nut & Julia, I feed a blend of Purina Pro Plan (puppy small breed formula) with Avoderm (kibble) and dry egg yolk and salmon oil (Kronch brand) mixed into it. 

I have two girls with itchy skin, so I may move to Avoderm exclusively, but I have a pregnant bitch so I won't do any more changes until she is done nursing her puppies. A complete food change is too drastic.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks Kimberly,

Any advice on my picky baby? Do I listen to my hubby and just let him be hungry until he eats? I've done it with my previous dog, but he was a large English Setter and I wasn't worried about him becoming hypoglysemic. 

TIA,


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

My advice would be to read the chapter on feeding in "The Havanese" by Diane Klumb. Many Havanese will act picky and even forego eating for a day or two.

However, if your veterinarian believes that your dog is hypoglycemic, then you need to listen to her/his advice on feeding.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks again Kimberly,

I will refer back to the book....totally forgot about that chapter. And no, Bugsy is not hypoglycemic at all.


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## JodiM (Dec 28, 2006)

We feed Innova California Naturals Lamb & Rice for puppies ~ I just checked and don't see flax on the list.

We like it, we switched from Innova EVO (which I actually liked, but it gave Princess gas, and well, no one wanted to love on the puppy  ) a few weeks ago, and so far so good.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Jodi, the california naturals lamb and rice was a success tonight- they both ate it dry with no wet enhancements. Thanks for checking your bag for me. 

the other one they both seem to like is the royal canin "poodle"... go figure. 
but it has corn in it-- but it does have more fiber which is good for Jassy. 

thanks everyone.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I feed Brady Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul. I just checked the bag and I did not see any flax. We have not had any problems with tear staining and he handles the food quite well. I started using it when Brady's breeder switched to it and suggested that I compare the ingredients with Science Diet (I was using that at the time).


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I didn't read through the ingredients but here's what we feed with nothing but good results.

http://www.frommfamily.com/products-fs-d-d-chicken.php

We know 2 other Havanese breeders who had dogs itchy on Pro Plan who switched to Fromm and the dogs are no longer itchy.


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## boo2352 (Dec 18, 2006)

We use California Natural puppy food, and I don't see Flax (or wheat gluten) as an ingredient, MacGyver scarfs it down.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Tom, that's what I just bought last week. Our new pup was eating only Fromm's so I've been mixing into what I already had here and both boys love it! I'll likely be sticking with Fromm's only once the other stuff is gone. 

I was also very happy with the Innova for puppies.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I ran out of Purina....I feed the Chicken and Rice Pro Plan, and bought some Fromm. My guys wont touch it. They hated it. So back to Purina and they like it. I have to say Im really happy with ProPlan, its easy on their stomach. I often wondered if it was good for their coat etc... I do know Stogie quit throwing up because of his acid reflux and that is huge! 

Melissa
Missy, we can be Purina snobs. Lets start the rumor...Purina is the hot food now. The must have... It was on all the Spring runways...ok Im just kidding...


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

I use Purina too....mine is one the vet gives me because my bichon has allergies and scratches all the time. They all eat it and love it! I agree Purina rules! Vicki


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Another Purina Pro Plan user here too. We have beautiful coats and firm stools - the two most important things to me. LOL!


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## JodiM (Dec 28, 2006)

Missy said:


> Jodi, the california naturals lamb and rice was a success tonight- they both ate it dry with no wet enhancements. Thanks for checking your bag for me.
> 
> the other one they both seem to like is the royal canin "poodle"... go figure.
> but it has corn in it-- but it does have more fiber which is good for Jassy.
> ...


That's great, I'm glad it worked out for them.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Melissa, Missy, Doggienut and Kimberly - I think Purina needs to pay you guys fees for good advertisement.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

OK- I am going back to purina pro-plan. Cash just had the most disgusting poo I have seen in his little life after one meal of the califirnia naturals. They both hated the pro-plan selects--- What do you guys think of "animal digest" though as an ingredient.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Missy, you probably already know this, but make sure you do gradual food changes 75% former brand to 25% new brand for a couple of days, then 50/50, then 75% new brand and 25% former brand, and then you can move to 100% change.

In immediate change to another kind can result in stomach upset, no matter which brand you change to.

I have no idea what "animal digest" is.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

_""""Missy, we can be Purina snobs. Lets start the rumor...Purina is the hot food now. The must have... It was on all the Spring runways...ok Im just kidding...""""_

Melissa. that is too funny--- let's start the rumor.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

It took me forever, but the Nutro Ultra and the Wellness I have in the house both have Flax. There is a Natures Variety Prairie Raw Instinct kibble that has flaxseed oil but it's way down the ingredients list, maybe halfway. 

Lol @ dogfood snob....if this petfood disaster causes a big spike in the "premium" dogfood prices, I'll be right there in line at the co-op, and no, that's not a huge old building that's been turned into housing units, for some purina! 

Beverly


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Beverly - are you kidding - Co-ops are the best places!! I get all my pet stuff, gardening stuff, bird stuff , plants, rabbit food, ferret food, I love it!
When hubby says he has to go to the co-op for something, I am in the car! Good prices, very knowledgable people & you can buy stuff in bulk!! I am a little nervous about this food scare, Lily has has loose stool for 2-3 weeks now, off & on. But the other dogs are not having a problem and eat the same food, which is not on the list. Not sure what to do, think I gotta call the vet.
Laurie


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

It could simply be that all of a sudden something is just too rich for Lily. But nonetheless, follow your gut and get her checked out. I had to switch over from the puppy formula, of Oreo's food, to the adult formula and he is much better with his stools. I was getting worried that maybe he got worms but his sample came back negative. So I ruled out that the puppy food was too rich and now on the adult formula his tummy settled really nicely. Boy, its amazing all the guesswork we have to put in sometimes


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Yes- I would have thought that too, except she has not had a change in food. We did start turkey hot dogs for some training about 3 weeks ago, and that is when she started with potty problems. We stopped the hot dogs after she started but she got better, then bad, then better, then bad. I just wonder if it cause the weather is getting better, they are outside more & eating "garbage" from the lawn. Mulch, leaves, dirt etc!


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Laurief, they could also be drinking water outside and maybe getting some bacteria from that. I have to watch mine all the time. They always seem to find the buried cat poop.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Good going, Catherine! Glad to hear that Oreo's b.m.'s are more normal. I know you were worried for a while there. How old is he again?

Laurie, that's too bad about Lilly!  It could be anything! The vet might have some input, but he/she might only have to guess just as you are. It can be pretty confusing trying to figure things out sometimes - sure wish they could talk!!

Sammy has the stinkiest farts ever!! For such a small guy, he is a huge stinker!! lol


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

That is a good point about the water outside. Although they get distilled in the house, I am sure they are licking puddles, eating spring worms, or whatever! The vets office said to try to give her a little yogurt in her meals to get the bacteria under control in her belly. I guess we will give it a try.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Laurie, I hope things settle down for her quickly.

I'm sure you know this, but make sure it is a plain yogurt that still has active cultures in it. (Mostly posting this in case anyone else is reading and thinks that a cup of Yoplait will help. LOL)


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I really was not sure what kind, but I figured either plain or vanilla. Do normal yogurts have active cultures?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Laurie, rather than having me leave something out, here is a really good link on yogurt. To answer your question specifically, scroll down to the section called "How To Buy The Healthiest Yogurt: 5 Tips". It tells you to avoid anything that has been heat treated or pasturized and how to read the labels. It does promote one particular brand, but you can find others that are good.

If you have a Trader Joe's near you, they always have good yogurt in their refrigerated section. My local grocers just started carrying some good yogurt, but they used to be hit or miss.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Thanks a million!! I think that my grocery store might carry stonyfields - We have a trader Joes in our state but it is about 1 1/2 hours away - too far for just yogurt Thanks again.
Laurie


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

You think 1.5 hours is too far for yogurt?! I have a Trader Joe's just five miles away and opted to hit the local grocery yesterday for my yogurt instead of doing that drive. (Interpretation: I agree with you!!)


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Kimberly, GMTA. I always tell people that not just any yogurt will do. They usually are pasteurized so that kills all that good bacteria in there. They're useless! lol Thanks for the link.... bookmarked it. 

BTW - always try to take some good bacteria, either in Acidopholous capsules or yogurt, when taking antibiotics! Hmmmmmm..... I think that was already mentioned in this thread.... maybe....... lol


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Marj,


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Lauri, Co-ops in Jersey? Are you kidding me? My friends in A.C. never told me that, they made me think everything we had in Nebraska was stricktly farm-like and they'd never have any such thing there on the "right" coast! 

It's weird because Cooper has had loose stools also the past week or so and his diet hasn't changed either. I'm guessing it must be eating the usual suspects out in the yard, or maybe extra bones his buddy Cowboy John brings him on the weekends. Come to think of it, John also brings him the occational turkey hotdog too....hmmmm.

Beverly


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Yea , well Atlantic City is city!! We live a little more country in Mid NJ and my co-op is just 1 mile up the road. My town is 59 square miles and I would say that although we have a very large population we also have about 40% farmland or preserved land. So there are some places on the "right coast" that are farm-like. 
Well today or tomorrow I am going to try to get the yogurt & see how it works. Hubby & kid are away tonight to visit colleges, so its just me and the pups by ourselves. Hopefully Lily wont need to get up in the middle of the night again!! 
Laurie


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## JodiM (Dec 28, 2006)

Trader Joe's is worth a 1.5hr drive, but not just for yogurt. 

Can you give just straight acidopholus? That might be easier to store for those that don't have a grocer that stocks the live bacteria yogurt.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I have heard that about Trader Joes. If I were not so busy at work, I might. Will have to wait till things calm down a bit. I do have acidopholus in my cabinet, if it is pill form, how much should I give her?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Sorry, I can't answer the question on how much acidopholus to give, but I just wanted to add that I see my grocery store is now carrying Mountain High brand yogurt, which is a good one too.


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

Thanks gang. Read this post and went out and bought Purina Pro Plan for puppies. I just starting mixing it with his old food but Houston seems to like it better. We will see. He still is itchy but I will give it some time.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Just caught up on this thread, too funny! 

Rita, you are "cool" now. Go Purina Go. 


Im only joking around, Im just glad to find something my dogs LIKE and it seems to be good for them.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Well, by the time I was able to get out and get the yogurt, Lily went back to normal!! Well at least whatever it was, is over now. - Isnt that always the way - by the time you get the car in for that "noise" - you never hear it anymore 
Laurie


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