# Children in Dog Parks



## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

I'm looking for some advice from parents....

The dog park near my house recently limited access to people purchasing passes after proving their dogs were licensed and vaccinated. In the last 2 weeks I have had 3 situations with small children in the small dog area. In each case the parents were upset with me and left. While I don't think I was wrong in speaking out, these situations have left me feeling very unsettled and wondering if I could have handled them better.... 

Yesterday afternoon, as I was entering the park there was a 7-8 year old girl chasing a small dog, barking at it. The dog was clearly scared and ran to her owner who picked her up (the owner was sitting in a chair). The little girl stood behind the woman, getting very close to the dog's face, "barking". I could tell the owner was as uncomfortable as her dog but wasn't saying anything. It looked like a disaster just waiting to happen. I asked the woman and the other adult there if the child was theirs. Both said no, so I stepped between the girl and dog and told the girl she needed to leave the dog alone, she was scaring it and I didn't want her to get bit. The girl told me the dog had barked at her and scared her so she was barking back. She continued to bark at the dog, within inches of it's face. I put my hand on the girl's shoulder and guided her away and didn't let go until she was out of reach of the dog. 

At this point the child's mother finally came walking in. She had been in the big dog area! The little girl starting crying saying the dog had scared her and she didn't want to leave. The mother took the little girl and huffed out.

Last week as I arrived there were 3 young girls, probably ages 4-8 chasing a little 3 pound chihuahua with a plastic "paddle" saying that it was a "dog catcher". The dog was trying to run away as the children tried to swat the dog. Neither the dog's owner, nor the childrens' mother said anything. :frusty: I took Cody & Tess off to one side before putting them down, trying to stay out of the way of the kids who of course immediately ran over and surrounded Cody & Tess. I stepped in and asked them to stay away from the dogs. They didn't listen. I picked up Tess and stopped them from grabbing at Cody. The mother came over and told the kids "Don't touch those dogs, they're aggressive." I told her my dogs weren't aggressive, I just didn't want her children chasing and scaring my dogs. She got mad, packed up the kids and left.

This same woman came back another time and again I told her not to let her children chase my dogs. The kids didn't listen very well but the mother at least watched them. 

It was very clear that both women believed that the small dog area is also a play area for small children since "they get knocked down in the big dog area". Some of the small dogs are fine with the children, others are clearly intimidated. I take my dogs to the dog park so they can play with other dogs, not be chased by kids. 

There are not currently rules regarding children in the park. (The park is relatively new and run by volunteers so they're just getting the rules worked out.) Should I mind my own business and just make sure my dogs are taken care of? Is there a more diplomatic way to handle such a situation with the parents?


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Being a new puppy owner I have no experience with dog parks but I have to say when I read your posting I thought to myself I would have reacted in a very similar way. Then for future I would mind my own dog only and let the parents worry about their kids. Seems they don't want to learn. Unfortunately it will mean someone will be bitten and of course the dog will get blamed. Maddening isn't it? Unbelieveable that parents don't teach their kids more respect for living beings.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Hi Jill,
It sounds like you were in a tough spot. I am not sure what the correct answer is. I think I would have handled it similar to you. I think I may leave it up to the dog owner's as to whether they want to say anything to the children or not in the future. It may keep the peace a little better for you.

Your story reminded me of a few weeks ago when I was out to breakfast with my parents. There was a boy about 8 years old at the table next to us clanging his silverware on his glass. I waited about 10 minutes and the mother didn't do anything to stop him. Just kept chatting with her friend. I finally turned and asked him to please stop. The mother looked at me and said, "what is the problem, why did you tell him to stop". Was she serious? I turned to her and told her it was sending chills up my spine and I was trying to enjoy my breakfast. Anyway, sorry to go off on a tangent, but that one kind of set me off. 

Dog parks can be dangerous for kids and it is scary to think that a parent wouldn't be watching their children in that environment.


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## Renee (Mar 27, 2008)

Maybe they can add a rule that kids need to be on a leash too. :wink:

Those children have a total lack of respect for dogs. Although we don't have dog parks in our area, I teach my kids that they have to ASK for permission to pet another dog. Otherwise they are to leave them alone. But then, I also have a healthy fear of strange dogs. You never know which ones are mean.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

This is one of the big reasons I'm glad we got our puppy - it really does help to teach kids to respect life. I can't stand seeing kids allowed to tease animals.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Jill, we don't have dog parks in my small town so I don't know too much about them but since it is a new one and they don't have all the kinks worked out, maybe you should find out if you can get involved in helping them set up some of the rules and regulations. They might welcome the help! That way when something like that comes up you will have the "Rules" to point to. I don't think you did the wrong thing in that situation and I probably would have said something myself.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Jill- that is a tough and annoying position. Carry a water pistol and squirt the parents in the face and do it on video is my first thought!!! I think your best bet might be to contact the volunteers who run the park. Maybe they can put a reminder up no children without parent supervision- seems like a huge liability for me and one they would want to prevent.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

I have never actually taken Beamer to an outdoor dog park and have been to an indoor type once. Honestly, I prefer to let Beamer play with dogs in my area rather than going to the parks. The indoor one I went to was ok, but so mant dogs are peeing over everything, and since its not grass, if the owners do not clean it up immedialty, it jist sits on the floor while your dog does a dance in it. lol... pretty nasty.. lol

And I do not trust strange dogs and their people.. sooo.. lol

Ryan


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

ew. pee everywhere. ew. (mental note - take going to dog park with Kipling off to do list)


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

As a parent, I can say that people need to supervise their kids. Sometimes good parents lose track for a few minutes, and some people just don't watch their kids or care what they are doing or have the same standards of behavior that I do, also. I think you had every right to step in to keep the kids away from your own dogs, and even in the situation where it wasn't your dog. The kids could get hurt and so could the dogs. It's not okay to chase and scare a dog either, and the kids need to learn that. Sometimes it's easier to let the kids go off and play than it is to supervise them, but parents still need to take responsibility. I hope people will politely step in if they see my kids being stupid and I'm not noticing. It's a little touchy with strangers like that, but still--the kids need to learn what is appropriate, and not just from parents. I'd rather the kids/dogs not get hurt than I not get embarrassed. Sometimes kids hear it better from other people too.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Jill, I think you acted wonderfully restrained and polite in these situations!! I'm in awe at your self control, and yet your courage to stand up for the dogs (and the children, indirectly,) by intervening on the dogs' behalf. 

I think going to the volunteers and letting them know this problem exists would benefit everyone there, even from a liability standpoint. A list of "Rules" could be posted by the gate, taking the pressure off anyone in particular, by making courtesy a standard required for everyone. Since passes are required in the first place, it would be easy to also include a list of these rules to be followed voluntarily by all participants.


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## j.j.'s mom (Aug 16, 2009)

children do not belong in dog parks.
dogs do not belong in play grounds...
that is fair. 
btw.. do not touch any child in any way. at least in the land of fruits and nuts, ie. california, this is an excellent way to get sued.
i have to sometimes leave dog parks because of doggy behavior. some people are just not responsible or accountable for their dogs actions and certainly not their kids...


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

I didn't see anything wrong in how you responded. It took some bravery on your part to speak up! I think it's great that the dog park is issuing passes and making sure the dogs are vacinated. They should also post rules on being responsible for your dogs and a warning sign to parents they tehy accept all responsiblilty for any injuries their unattened children incur. (With a scary pic of child beign bitten!)


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Most of the time I take Todd to the dog park without my kids but if the kids come with us I take them during low use times and if they are getting too wound up they have a choice of playing outside of the dog area or sitting in the car...I expect them to follow the rules (which I tell them beforehand) and if they don't they don't get to hang out with the dogs (which they love!) 
Control your dog, control your kid and all is well 
Off topic but another thing that drives me nuts is parents that let their kids bang on enclosures at the Zoo...*GRRRRR* The poor animals are in cages..they can't get away..why torment them! *rant over* :angel:


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Jill, I go to dog parks very often living in the city, it's the only time the pups are off leash outside, so they're valuable property here. You were absolutely and 100% in the right in all cases you listed. You never mentioned, though, were those kids there with their own dog or did the mom just decide it would be fun to have the kids around the dogs? I only ask because the #1 rule in NYC dog parks is that NO ONE (not even an adult) is allowed in the dog park without a dog. In addition, we always invoke the idea that dogs aren't allowed in children's parks (they aren't here in the city) so children aren't (and shouldn't be) allowed in dog parks, especially without a dog and most especially without adult supervision!

This rule does get broken from time to time but the dog owners are usually quick to defend their dog park. There were some problems at one time with parents actually dropping their kids INTO the dog park (as in over the fence - standing outside of it) and then not paying any attention while the kid terrorized the dogs. Someone (and usually more than one person) would either politely tell her to take her kid out or cussed her out - depending on who asked, LOL, not that I suggest cussing someone out first, of course.

You should talk to the volunteers of the dog park about implementing a rule like this. It's important because for a lot of dogs (especially in the city, not so much in your area, I think) the dog park is THEIR ground and their opportunity to run around and have fun. Being tormented by kids is *not* the idea behind the dog park, nor should it be.

I realize that if you have your own dog and kids that you need to take the kids with you, but that is no excuse for not being able to control them. And if that's the case, you have every right to tell the parents so. If they huff and puff out, let them. They obviously don't care about your dogs, so why should you care about them?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Jill , I would have done the same thing. It's the parents that are the problem. Children who are not educated about dogs by their parents are not to blame. It can be a very dangerous place. I would talk with whoever is running the park. These same parents should not be in the park themselves because obviously they don't know anything about dogs or they wouldn't be letting their children act like that. I guess in the States a number of parks have age restrictions. But in reality they should have moron restrictions. It only takes one incident like this to ruin a dog or ruin a kids face.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

It's an interesting situation and I'm glad you brought it up. I bet some parents see the small dog area like a Pet shop or petting zoo for their kids to play in. We are in the process of getting a dog park started here so it's nice to get some ideas of the problems that could come up.


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## j.j.'s mom (Aug 16, 2009)

here are the rules for one of our local dog parks for reference:

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There is a 3 dog per handler limit. Shore dogs' management believes that no person can effectively control and supervise more than three dogs. For that reason, we strictly enforce a three-dog limit in the park.
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Under NO circumstances may you bring a sick dog into the park - one that has been diagnosed with a contagious disease, or that shows signs of illness (e.g., severe runny nose/eyes, diarrhea, vomiting, etc.).
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Female dogs in heat or pre-heat, are NOT allowed in the park! Females in heat can inadvertently cause dogfights.
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Dogs that show pronounced aggression are NOT allowed in the park! Dominant aggressive dogs should NOT play in parks with other dogs. Keeping them on a leash increases the aggression - and letting them off leash eliminates your control.
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Dogs that show fear aggression (attacking other dogs because they mistakenly believe the other dog will attack them) should not be forced to play in parks with unfamiliar dogs. It will increase the fear and aggression.
Some dogs are not suited for dog park playing, or need some work before introducing them to a group.
Excessive barking may disturb the park's neighbors and may also incite aggression in other dogs. Quiet your dog if he/she is barking. You can do that by redirecting the dog's attention to something else, like playing with you, or by moving to a different area of the park. If the dog will not be quiet, you must remove him or her from the park.
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Do not keep your dog on a leash inside the park. The dog park is an "off leash" area. If you need to keep your dog on leash, you should, for your dog's own safety and comfort, not bring him or her into the park. Being kept on leash with other dogs that are not on-leash triggers aggression and creates tension and stress between the dogs. It will also put your dog at a tremendous disadvantage if something goes "wrong".
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Choke chains, prong collars, and head collars (Halti, Gentle Leader, etc.) should be removed before you let your dog loose in the park. Other dogs can get their teeth caught in the collar when playing and panic when stuck, causing injury to themselves and the dog wearing the collar. A prong or pinch collar may also get caught up on a fence and will be painful if pushed into the dog's neck during play, potentially causing a fight because of a perceived "signal of threat".
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Do not bring food of any kind into the park. Food is a HUGE trigger for fights between dogs - especially very tasty food like a chicken sandwich!
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Under NO circumstances are you allowed to leave your dog unsupervised in the park! If you leave, take your dog with you!
Do not leave the park gates open, and watch carefully for dogs on the other side when you are entering or leaving, so that they do not escape.
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This park is a designated "Dog Park". It is not intended as a children's playground. Dogs in the park can and will often assume "natural canine behavior" (run wildly while at play, etc.), which may not be a safe environment for small children. Shore Dogs Dog Club recommends that you don't bring small children into the park. Unaccompanied children are not allowed in the park -- you bring children at your own risk.
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Clean up after your dog. It's very unpleasant - not mention unhealthy - for dogs to play in a field liberally dotted with droppings. The park has pooper-scoopers, plastic bags and covered buckets to deposit the poop. If you notice that a dog has pooped and the owner seems unaware of it, point it out to them.


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## susieg (Aug 28, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> I guess in the States a number of parks have age restrictions. But in reality they should have moron restrictions.


Well said, Dave....SO true! I hope you don't mind if I use that line sometime 

The dog park near my house is not a safe place for small children. Even the small dog area can be dangerous to a small child, especially one who is unsupervised and does not know how to behave around animals. I am amazed when I see parents letting their kids run around and "play" with the dogs in both the large & small dog areas. They are just asking for trouble....and if someone gets bit, it will always be the dog/dog owners' fault even if the dog was provoked. I think you handled yourself very well Jill!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

j.j.'s mom said:


> here are the rules for one of our local dog parks for reference:
> 
> #
> 
> ...


Excellent set of rules. Whoever set them up knows what they are talking about. I have seen similar set written by Pat Miller. Especially the one that mentions never to take a dog into the play area on leash. Thanks for posting.


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## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

I think you took responsible action. I am so glad you stood up for that little dog, and for your own dogs. Something should have been said to them, and it sounds like you did, while keeping your cool and not getting angry. The parents getting angry is uncalled for and they were not being responsible at all and it sounds like they didn't care too much. You did the right thing -- children should not chase strange dogs. I am glad that you responded that your dogs were not aggressive, but you just didn't want her children bothering your dogs. Point well made. And very, very resonable. Too bad you have to sometimes be a people trainer as well.  Again, good for keeping your calm, yet standing up for the right thing.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Jill...here is a pat on the back!! Sad that you even had to say something, but I'm glad you did.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Jill, you do great! I wouldn't touch the child though. 

I would have said the same thing about leaving my dog alone and told the child they were scaring the dog like you did. 

I have seen a 10 year old boy chasing and scaring the small dogs in a small dog park and the parent did not say anything. 

I am getting bolder about letting my feelings known to other dog owners. 

If another dog approaches Dexter in the dog park, I let them sniff, but sometimes the other dogs are all over Dexter and chasing Dexter around my legs. This is when I pick up Dexter and we go to another area of the park or go to the bench and let the other dogs smell Dexter from there.

I let the owners know that I am getting my dog use to the park and for the most part the dog owners curb their dogs away from Dexter because some dogs are overly friendly with Dexter.

I plan on putting the phone number to the dog park in my telephone list, so I can call if there is a problem in the park.

Information to everyone: When at a dog park, please watch the other dog's behaviors to determine if you want that dog around your dog and precautions you will have to take if the over friendly dog will not leave your dog alone.

I do know dog parks are asking for volunteer dog park monitors, I am tempted to call to see what is involved.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Thanks for everyone's responses. We went to the dog park tonight (no children!) and I talked to the other regulars. There is a rule (who knew!) that no children under the age 14 are allowed in the park. It's taking some time to get people to follow the rules so hopefully things will get better. I think I may print off the rules and bring them with me for any future incidents. 

I was concerned about having touched the kids (something I tend to be very careful about anyhow) - which is why I mentioned it - but didn't know how else to get the girl to back off since she wasn't listening and I was afraid she was going to get bit in the face. Any suggestions there?

Amanada, I especially like you're idea of a water gun. I think that would get the point across much more effectively than words! I'll make to have it filmed (including the part when the police arrive to arrest me).


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Jill, I agree with everyone's responses and think you handled the situation perfectly. Dogs have the right not to be terrorized, chased or frightened by children while at the dog park. I agree with Amanda's suggestion to contact the volunteers who run the park, as it is a huge disaster and liability waiting to happen if kids are allowed to torment the dogs. Some child is eventually going to get bit. Apparently some very large signs need to be put up that children must be supervised by their parents and that they cannot chase or tease the dogs. I'm really sorry that you had to go through that.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

j.j.'s mom, That's a great list of rules. I'm going to find out who is in charge and see what they are planning. Maybe I could suggest these if they haven't got much planned.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Jill,

I think you handled this situation very well. My kids are now older (18 and 16), but when they were young, I would have never ever thought of brining them to a dog park. Running, screaming kids = dog bate, and my kids were entirely too precious!!! Kids don't belong in dog parks and dogs don't belong at the kids' playgrounds. Unfortunately, some parents just don't get that. Last Thursday I was at a local, non fenced in dog park while waiting for my daughter's class to end. It was not fenced in but a designated dog park and what do you know two sets of parents with small kids came to play with dogs.....:grrr Now mind you there is a kids play ground just around the corner.  I had to take my dogs out of there to a grassy field near by. Running screaming kids and dog is just an accident waiting to happen.


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## milomyguy (Oct 2, 2009)

I am sorry...the cheese (me) is going to stand alone on this one but you had no right to touch that child. I would have come unglued on you. That child was wrong in her behavior but you are not her mother and you may not touch other people's children. I understand your concern for the dog and for the child but you crossed a line in my book. When you say you did not let go of her until she was away from the dog that makes it sound as though you were more forceful then necessary. Also, if the owner is going to sit there and let the poor dog be tormented then what does that say about the owner? The owner could have walked away or they could have told the girl to leave the dog alone. They could have found the girl's mom. Any number of things.

The mother should never have left her child alone in the small dog area. That is not acceptable. To me it sounds as though everyone was wrong in this situation. 

I made the mistake of taking my daughter to an off leash dog park. She is three. She always stays with me and we had never had a prob before. Some husky got in her face and when we tried to walk away it came after us. The dog tried to bite her and I pulled her away and tried to leave. It followed and nipped at her face. I made a large step towards the dog with no intention of touching it. I only wanted to remind the dog who was bigger. The owner, who had been M.I.A. until now came unglued and got in my face. Screamed at me and threatened me. I feel we were both wrong. Sometimes you just can't win.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

milomyguy said:


> *I am sorry...the cheese (me) is going to stand alone on this one but you had no right to touch that child. I would have come unglued on you. That child was wrong in her behavior but you are not her mother and you may not touch other people's children.* I understand your concern for the dog and for the child but you crossed a line in my book. When you say you did not let go of her until she was away from the dog that makes it sound as though you were more forceful then necessary. Also, if the owner is going to sit there and let the poor dog be tormented then what does that say about the owner? The owner could have walked away or they could have told the girl to leave the dog alone. They could have found the girl's mom. Any number of things.


Emphasis mine.

Honestly, and I don't really know you so this isn't directed at you. I think this is such an "American" idea that does NOT work when you're dealing with parents who are not watching their children. If the mother isn't doing anything or isn't around, what are you supposed to do? Wait until the child gets bit and the dog has to be put down for being "aggressive?" Whose fault would that be then? She didn't grab the child. She didn't hurt her or push her away. She took her shoulder and guided her away. What does that matter? What's the big deal about touching someone else's child anyway? If that kid's mom was afraid of her child getting kidnapped and/or hurt then she should have been watching in the first place and shouldn't have let her child taunt that poor dog in the first place.

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs on how to raise children, of course, but if a kid is tormenting my dog you bet your ass I would touch that kid to keep him away. And if the mother came over to yell at me, I'd give her a piece of my mind on parenting as well. I think so much fear exists when it comes to how to treat other people's kids that it creates even bigger problems in society, not only for adults but also for kids. I can't even tell you the number of times I've heard "You're not my mom" tauntingly spoken to adults by children. It gives them a huge amount of entitlement to know that they are in the right whenever it comes to someone telling them what to do who is not a parent. You can even see this in schools as it regards teachers!

It's one thing to tell your child not to allow someone to hurt them and/or grab them in anger but it's quite another to tell your child that no one but YOU is allowed to tell them and/or stop them when they're doing something stupid that could hurt themselves or others.

Sorry, I couldn't help it and had to say something. Rant over.


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## JeanMarie (Mar 2, 2008)

Here's a thought:
Your child is standing on a curb and you turn away for a second just as car comes around the corner. Your child starts to step off the curb. I am standing there but let your child walk into the street because "I shouldn't be touching your child?" Excuse me. I would rather get hit with the full wrath of a protective Mom then let a child be in harms way. As I see it, that's what the call was here.

For gosh sakes, we need some common sense in this world! Rant on Lina...I am in your corner!


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I think I would of stepped in front of the child to interrupt the bad behavior when there is a good break in space between the dog and child, just make sure you do not look like you are touching the child. 

Was the owner of the other dog being bullied too afraid to say something to the child? 

In this day and age, there are a lot sue happy bunch of people with bad attitudes. You just have to be careful in what you do these days.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Lina and Jean Marie,
Ditto, ditto!! This country is in a whole lot more trouble than it might otherwise be because of the unwillingness of people to get involved in their own communities. There used to be a time when there was a lot more respect towards other adults and persons of authority. A willingness to be involved with the kids in the neighborhood. By golly, I have prayed for people to be around my kids, when they were growing up, that cared enough to correct them and help them to grow up into responsible adults. The country is so lawsuit crazy that no one dares to do this any more. Our schools suffer because our teachers have no means of authority and control over a classroom of children who know they can get away with thumbing their nose at authority. 

Well, anyway, rant on Lina...I agree!


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## sandydlc (Aug 8, 2009)

As a parent (and a fairly strict one) I would never have allowed my kids to just run around without supervision, regardless where we are, but especially in a dog park. My son is 9 and is such a well-behaved boy. Despite growing up around a grouchy chihuahua, he learned how to be respectful towards animals from day one.

We took Lucy and Paco to a dog park a few weeks ago and it was an interesting experience. I found that most of the owners there were more interested in chatting than in watching their dogs, and the other children that were there were not being watched or disciplined the way that I would have. We realized that Paco is probably not suited for a dog park. Although he plays just fine with other dogs when we're not around (when he stays at the PetHotel at Petsmart), I think he's too protective of my kids to make him safe at a park. He seemed to be constantly on alert and nervous - not a good combination, so we eventually just picked him up.

Lucy did better, but several very large dogs were just playing too rough for my taste and she got knocked around a bit too much. We eventually just left and were a bit unsatisfied with the whole experience.

I think that if I really want my dogs to run free, I'd rather find another dog park that has a larger small dog area, and we'll probably only take Lucy next time.

Regarding your experiences with those other kids - I agree that it was an accident waiting to happen. I might have asked the little girl where her mother was and then spoke to the mom about the dangers of allowing the child to "bark" at the dog. Or, you could have found the owner of the dog and warned them to pick up the dog before anything happened. I probably would agree with some of the comments that I wouldn't necessarily have led the little girl away and tried to discipline her myself. It's a very touchy, no-win situation and I'm sure that you must have sensed imminent danger or you wouldn't have chosen the resolution to the situation that you did.

Sandy


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*parents and kids in dog park*

We don't go to our local dog park at all anymore. Just too much drama. I try to take them to yards of friends who have dog friendly areas. Its sad that the dogs have to stay home because of the people!

The challenge is my dogs like kids but they aren't too crazy about the terriers who chase them and bite on the back of their behinds. The challenge though is that I've seen moms take their small kids in with food and other things like toys which can cause all sorts of issues. One pet owner did confront the mom and she said, well gee, it will teach her a lesson. Meaning the child should be knocked down or chewed on...and who would have been at fault? The dog owner and the poor pet.

A small dog like a havanese can be stepped on...and sometimes puppies up to thirty pounds are pretty big for my dogs...and for little kids too! Moms amaze me that they would drop off little ones without supervision.

I work in a store and I cannot tell you how many women attempt to shop and try on clothing with a baby in a stroller or sling and several other children running around the store...often knocking down fixtures and clothing all over the floor. Why would a mom try to shop with toddlers...and we have steps. I have saved the lives of several children as their moms were off in the dressing room while the toddler was wandering around alone. One woman put her baby on the floor and I almost stepped on her...that was so scary. The baby was under three months...

I have placed my hand on another child about to hit mine, I have also put my hand between the foot of a toddler and my dogs. Usually parents think it is cute...I think it is destructive and teaches the child nothing except that respect for others and animals is not necessary.

The park is not a place for learning about dogs...it is not a playground. If someone chooses to bring their children to a dog park and leave them...well you could just call child protective services...think of what happened to the guy who left his baby in the car...


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

I cannot stand when parents don't supervise their kids, and I don't care WHERE they are when that happens...dog park, grocery store, mall, etc. It drives me crazy, and I wonder what kind of people those kids are going to be when they grow up. Look, my kids are young. They like to go wild and have fun, but they understand that there are times and places for that. Can you imagine what its like to TEACH kids who have no discipline at home? I couldn't do it.

Jill, sounds to me like you only used force necessary to protect the child from getting gnashed in the face. I know people love to sue for anything these days, but I wouldn't worry about it at all. What harm was caused by your actions? None. All you did was prevent damage, not cause it.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I would have touched that child too, I think you did the right thing. We're so concerned with the "rights" of the child and it's BS, so many kids are out of control now because they think they can do anything they want! It makes me sick and I'm a parent of 3 kids. Mine have been raised to respect the authority of all adults, while also being educated on what's appropriate behavior from those adults.

What's happened to responsible parenting??? If that kid had been bitten you can bet that woman would have been blaming the dog and the dog owner while taking no responsibility for the fact that her own child was unsupervised.


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## mikeb (Mar 11, 2009)

I agree, what you did was fine. I definitely like having well behaved children in the dog park with parent and dog, especially the small dog area. Children socializing with dogs is important to dogs and children. But they must be watched closely by their parent and be polite. The ones I have met in our dog park have been polite and watched closely. We have a huge dog part though and not that many visitors to the small dog area.


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## j.j.'s mom (Aug 16, 2009)

sheri...:amen:

there are alot of things wrong today. lack of respect of authority.. lack of respect for other people in general...


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## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

Our dog park has rules:
1) No child under 3 allowed in the dog park fenced area
2) Children under 10 must have parent with them on the same side (no parents on large dog side and children on small dog side)
3) No food in dog park (i actually saw some kid walk in with a mcdonalds bag-stupid parents)

ETA: This is just a partial list of course-just rules involving kids, all dogs in our park have to be spayed/neutered as well, I'm surprised that's not on the list above


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## milomyguy (Oct 2, 2009)

I guess it is hard for me because I have never needed anyone to correct my daughter. I have always been a hover parent. If I can't see her and quickly grab her then I am not comfortable. So for us the situation would never have happened. I mean....It is hard for me to hear you touched that girl in anyway because my style parenting is such that no one has ever needed to touch my daughter in order to correct her. If I were in your shoes I guess I can see that your reaction was appropriate. And I do not think you are wrong that children need to be behaved around dogs or that parents need to watch their children I just think in today's world, as some have mentioned, you don't touch other people's kids. and yes, if she got bit it would have been her and her mother's fault.

Has anyone looked at the owner of the dog being harassed?
I mean did the owner just sit there. I know the dog got picked up and the girl continued but what did the owner do? anything?


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Lessons learned in a dog park! 

Jill brush it off....sometimes we do thing instinctively without even thinking about it when we or our loved ones are in danger and that includes a child standing right next to you.


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## January (Oct 23, 2008)

In addition to the unfairness to the dogs these parents are also endangering their children. It is dangerous to leave small children in one section of the park while the parent is in another. Don't they know that a young child without its parent is prey for all sorts of deranged people? How are the other people in the park to know if a child is leaving with a safe person or a predator? I work in a public library and am appalled at how careless parents are with their children. We have a rule that any children under the age of 11 must be accompanied by their parents/guardians at all times. This means they cannot leave their kids in one room while they go elsewhere. This is a difficult rule to enforce; many parents/guardians resent it and try to ignore it. If you talk to the park volunteers you might want to mention this. Probably won't do any good, but perhaps worth a try. All in all, I think you handled it appropriately. I'll get off my soapbox now.
January


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

My sister works at the mall in a large department store. The other day a man went into the men's restroom and left a toddler girl in a stroller outside the door. This is right next to an elevator and not far from a mall exit door. My sister and another employee noticed and watched the child until the father came out, approximately 5 minutes passed. Neither the child or the man spoke English. WTH would he have done if he had come out and that child was gone???
I would have called the police.


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## Xtina88 (Oct 5, 2009)

Ugh, I think those dreadful "shock" collars were originally invented for children - for this reason. Not to mention the parents... tsk tsk. Honestly, I love children. It truly is the parents who need to learn a lesson. Oh, and the whole, "It's easy to lose track of a toddler/baby/10-year-old... whatever" is a load of bull. I'm sorry, but I have a lot of experience in childcare and if I can keep track of eight 2-3 year olds by MYSELF on a half acre playground area then you can keep track of yours. If you can't keep track of your child then you shouldn't have your child out in public at all - that is a SAFETY hazard for everyone involved, including innocent dogs.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

milomyguy said:


> Has anyone looked at the owner of the dog being harassed?
> I mean did the owner just sit there. I know the dog got picked up and the girl continued but what did the owner do? anything?


In both cases the harassed dog owners definitely deserve some of the blame since neither did anything at the time except look very uncomfortable and then thank me profusely when the situation was over. Others at the park have said they would probably have a hard time saying anything also - for many of the reasons mentioned by others above - basically afraid of a confrontation with the children's parents. I'm typically not a confrontational person (I tend to avoid it like the plague) so my response was out of character for me.

Thanks for everyone's responses. I'm still not sure what I think the best thing was to do.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Me too Jill! 

Lessons learned every day.


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## Drew"s Mom (Jul 29, 2009)

There is this little girl in my neighborhood who always thinks she can pick up Drew. (she's in kindergarten) I take him to the bus stop with me. One day this little girl came running up and tried to pick Drew up. I said to her before she got to him not to pick him up. Well, she kept coming towards him. I went to pick him up but, she had already grabbed him. Drew's response was to pee all over the front of her clothes. :angel: I said to mom, "So Sorry" in a sarcastic tone. Mom said oh she is okay, she loves dog. I said Nope, I am sorry, my dog just peed all over your daughter.  Mom wasn't to happy. I tell this same girl every day not to touch him. All the other kids ask to pet him, which is fine with me. By the way, Drew is only 7 months old. He loves everybody he meets. Sometimes too much!


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## AmeliasBabaloo (Jul 16, 2009)

Way to go Drew. She deserved it.


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## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

Drew's Mom...too funny....!!

I had a neighborhood child of about 8 that constantly picked up my dog Coco who does not like to be picked up, I finally lied and said, he has a bad back, you cannot pick him up. To this day, my little Coco is not that fond of kids.


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## mikeb (Mar 11, 2009)

I am very lucky in my dog park and I forget other dog parks are different. My area has a huge large dog area and even bigger small dog area. I have been there about 10 times and 8 of the times there were no other dogs in the small dog area (large dog area had about 6-10 dogs). The one time there were 5 people (same family) and 2 were children (not tiny about 8-9) and george and the dogs and family had a great time. The children were very well behaved and watched by 3 adults though and actually made george sit for treats (my treats). I agree that no small children should be in a dog park and only well behaved older children. I agree with what you did completely.


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