# Met our Puppy and have questions about temperament



## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

Hi all,
So we were finally able to make a trip out to see the puppy that has been on hold for us with our breeder. He's a super cute little guy but before we make a final decision I wanted to ask for some advice with regards to temperament. They are currently 7 weeks old.

We went and stayed for about an hour and a half and played with the puppies between their naps. The Mom is a very nice dog, great personality and very welcoming. Our guy was more reserved and less enthused about meeting us than the other pups were. When we first picked him up he was shaking a little bit and wasn't keen to look right in our faces. But he didn't hide or anything, he did come out with the group of pups and was certainly involved with the happenings. Some of the other ones were jumping all over me as I sat on the floor, pulling at my pant leg, etc. 

This guy seemed less boisterous overall and more thoughtful, kind of wandering off on his own a little to smell something, not as quick to jump up underneath the coffee table or on the beds though he did do it with some encouragement. He wasn't as swayed to come over just by my presence, I had to really rile them all up to get them all jumping around on me. He played with his sibs, and could hold his own, but didn't seem to be the instigator. There were very clearly much more dominant, excitable/inquisitive pups in the group. He seemed to listen to Mom pretty astutely when she growled to tell them to stop chasing her for nursing and I feel like he stuck a bit closer to her than the others, at times.

He wasn't as squirmy when we held him; he seemed to settle in and kind of melt in the arms as some people have said. None of the other ones did that. He didn't seem totally pleased as punch to be held, but, he didn't try to get away really and let me turn him over on his back, play with his paws, whatever. But he didn't make really direct eye contact when I did that; more just kind of accepting his fate. The other ones were just totally trying to turn back over, get away, and just jump all over and lick my neck. I barely heard this guy whine and didn't hear him bark really. He would lick you a tiny bit with encouragement and if I made squeaky noises but wasn't non-stop about it (I'm not the biggest fan of licking because I have a mild allergy to dog saliva, so minimal licking is a cool/positive attribute with me).

The others were more demanding and/or vocal though none too much. After a while I felt like he warmed up to us, he did come over and engage in some play with me, playing with a rope and pawing a ball and stuff, but he was less hectic about it compared to the others, and when they would charge in he would kind of back off. When I put my head on the floor and used the high excited voice he did jump up on my head and chew my hair and stuff. When I would look at his face though when I handled him he would seem to have kind of a hesitant look... kind of "Ok, uh, do whatever you gotta do, I'm not too sure though". 

So- will this guy be a good fit for us? I think the dominant guy and even the tiny sister would be too much of a handful, and they are all spoken for anyway. We're a childless couple who are moderately active but not planning on doing agility or anything like that. We need a dog who will be quiet because we live in a small condo, but also one that can deal with everyday ruckus because our street is SO noisy and there are really strange people and many other people walking dogs who come around our condo (kind of a rough neighbourhood here). So lots of sirens, firecrackers across the street, motorcycles, etc. 

My concern is that this guy could be naturally kind of fearful and well, maybe a little less smart than his sibs? Or perhaps he is just more thoughtful? I feel like he would look to us more for direction instead of doing whatever he felt like like some of the others. He did respond to my encouragement to climb up on one of the little dog beds. Consider also that I have 3 pet parakeets who will be living in close proximity with our dog. I need a dog who will have a bulletproof "leave it" (with training of course) and who will not just pounce on a bird that flutters to the ground and attack it before thinking twice, you know? So that could be a positive attribute of this fellow.

My boyfriend likes that he is mellow and seems a bit like an old soul. I feel like this will make him pretty easy to groom. He seems pretty accepting of handling if a little timid initially. I am not clear how much socialization these guys are getting with the woman who owns the mother dog (where they're being raised in co-operation with the breeder). It seems like a pretty clean and nice home environment but I don't know how many people are around handling and interacting with the dogs, because she has been working a lot apparently. They do have larger dogs there that the puppies apparently get supervised visits with.

I have no experience picking puppies and I did meet some other potential candidates (with curly hair! Very cute but maybe difficult to maintain compared to this guy's silky tresses) but we did have our heart set on this guy initially and I want to give him a fair shake. He may in fact be the perfect dog for our lifestyle, but I really want to consider carefully to ensure it is a good match. The breeder heard our concerns and said she would spend more time over there soon (she had been involved with 2 weeks of hand-raising some orphaned pups and had been exhausted obviously!) and she would see how he developed. She didn't pressure us one way or the other, and said she could even hang onto him for another week when his sibs are in their homes to see how he develops when away from the little pack dynamics they have there. I feel like he is a bit repressed from the super-dominant ones.

Any thoughts from anyone with more experience with puppies, maybe their own dogs, comments etc? Welcome any input from this experienced group of people! We're definitely leaning toward taking him, and I'm committed to training a dog however it needs to be trained to bring out its best characteristics.

Thanks!!


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

My thoughts are that it's too early to tell much and that early socializaton and training will take care of all your concerns. I feel the need to point out that this is clearly my "lay person" opinion and that others, including Krandall and Dave will provide better insight.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

I think this pup has the potential to develop into a wonderfully mello companionable dog. I do think that you will need to socialize him intensively with other people and gentle, vaccinated dogs from the moment he comes home with you. Take him outside in your arms so that he can acclimate to the noises in his neighborhood. Get him in a properly run puppy kindergarten class right away and continue with classes for his first coke of years. As a more reserved puppy, he will need lots of opportunity to build his confidence. Read a book titled The Focused Puppy and work on attention exercises from the beginning. Over the many years and puppies I have raised, I have had two ( not Havanese) that started with similar temperaments and developed into wonderful companions. More reserved puppies need lots of socialization and opportunities to build confidence but if you can commit to providing this they often are very sweet, calm and gentle. Be honest with yourself about your ability to provide a high level of socialization (lots of interactions with men, women, well behaved children, various indoor and outdoor settings and gentle well behaved dogs. If you can't provide the intensive socialization a more reserved puppy needs then you should probably wait for a pup with a more confident temperament.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Actually, besides him shaking, he sounded perfect to me. I like the old soul, easy going dogs My guys are just that way, besides the shaking. I'm not an expert but I do know I like a more laid back pup. I do not like the real active ones. If u look directly into
a dogs eyes most will look away. My Scudder will look directly into my eyes but he is the only one of my 3 to do that. I hope one of the breeders or Dave chimes in'


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

He sounds a lot like Timmy. He was pretty reserved and not as crazy as his litter mates but I didn't want a wild puppy either since I was bringing him into a cat household. Tim's breeder thought he'd be a good fit and we couldn't be happier. Now mind you I did start Puppy K with him immediately and socialized the heck out of him but he is still a very reserved pup. I thought about therapy work with him but upon getting to know him I think he would be stressed under new surroundings but he LOVES training and going to class so maybe there's Rally or Obedience in our future. I did get another dog recently, Mae, and she is my wild child. I wanted a more outgoing dog that I might be able to do therapy work with and a sibling that might help bring Tim out of his shell and my plan has worked magnificently. Don't be too concerned with comparing him to his litter mates and even if he is a reserved pup and you expose him to lots of different places and people I think he'll be great. There are benefits to a calm pup, Tim never jumps up on anyone and is one of the most gentle sensitive pups I've seen. I think he's an old soul too.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

It sounds to me like you ended up with the right one. They're different from one day to the next at this age, so it's not really fair to completely judge in an hour and a half. Socialize him as much as possible when you first get him, but don't put him in situations that will scare him.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeah I'm with Tom, seven weeks is when temperament tests are done but they are very limited and generally are a snapshot of the current moment. here's some tips on choosing a pup and what to be wary of.http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/choosing-your-puppy


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

Thanks a lot everyone, we feel more confident that this guy could fit into our lives. I was thinking to myself that if we had got there and 4/5 pups had been like him with our guy being the boisterous one I might be just as concerned about that! So it was more that he stuck out from the other ones behaviourally. 

I think I really didn't realize that puppies could be so different or that they could even show a hint of shyness at this age. I think I expected them all to just be totally nuts and happy-go-lucky. My boyfriend (first time dog owner) thinks he would rather the work of building confidence in a more reserved dog than of trying to rein in a boisterous dog. And that makes sense to me too.

The other thing that set him apart is that he would mouth my hands and fingers, but not tear at them & wrestle them like the others. He sat there kind of slowly chewing on them but not very hard and not rambunctiously. 

On the Ian Dunbar site it says that the pup should be like a ragdoll when you handle them- and out of the 5 he was the only one who would fit that description.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeah Ian is a firm believe in nurture vs. nature. It's what happens in the next five to nine weeks that is so important. Folllow the links in that article and read both before and after you get your puppy. They are free downloads. Hope you go for puppy classes. Very important. More reading http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/social-view-heredity


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Naturelover said:


> Thanks a lot everyone, we feel more confident that this guy could fit into our lives. I was thinking to myself that if we had got there and 4/5 pups had been like him with our guy being the boisterous one I might be just as concerned about that! So it was more that he stuck out from the other ones behaviourally.
> 
> I think I really didn't realize that puppies could be so different or that they could even show a hint of shyness at this age. I think I expected them all to just be totally nuts and happy-go-lucky. My boyfriend (first time dog owner) thinks he would rather the work of building confidence in a more reserved dog than of trying to rein in a boisterous dog. And that makes sense to me too.
> 
> ...


Scudder was the same way. As a puppy he stood out as being reserved. He was not hyper or loud. I just love that in a dog. He is definitely an old soul and very mellow compared to most hav's. I think it's a very good thing!!


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

davetgabby said:


> yeah Ian is a firm believe in nurture vs. nature.


So was Randolph, and he was proven right. It was the most expensive dollar he ever won.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Gibbs Mom and Dad said:


> So was Randolph, and he was proven right. It was the most expensive dollar he ever won.


yeah if I've learned anything from the stock market is that there are no "experts" , like the dogs of the Dow, every dog has it's day. I came within a hair of winning a $10,000 stock picking contest ten years ago roughly. I had the lead up until the last day of a four month contest. and thought I was going to win, except the people that ran the contest misquoted a stock that had gone through a split. I found this out on the last day, what a pissoff to say the least. Finished third out of over 3000 contestants, some of who were "experts".


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

You want a quieter dog, so that sounds good. I wanted a dog with a lot of play drive, because i wanted a dog for competition. The things that would worry me A LITTLE are the shaking and the lack of eye contact. But as Tom said, a one time, hour and a half isn't much time to truly know a puppy's personality. It worries me more that the breeder is so uninvolved with this litter.

I think, if I were going to get him, I'd want to get him on the earlier side (8-10 weeks MAX) so that *I* could work right away on socializing him as much as possible. As Tom said, don't put him in situations that will scare him, but work on building up his confidence as much as possible.

This is a puppy who would definitely benefit from lots of puppy agility equipment to climb over, under and through and interact with... Not to turn him into an agility dog but to increase his confidence. I'd also start the "name game" IMMEDIATELY and feed him most of his food in fun, interactive training, so that he starts looking to your face and actively interacting with you rather than just accepting what you do to him.

Raised right, he could be the perfect puppy for you, but he may take a different KIND of work and training than a more rambunctious, outgoing puppy.


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

The shaking did decrease after we were there for a while, it was mainly just when we picked him up right after we arrived and before we sat on the floor for a while playing with them. So he did warm up to us after some time. 

I'm hoping to hear more from the breeder soon as she says she will have more time to go over and work with those guys now that the woman she's helping with the orphaned pups is going back home. If he's a little independent that is probably good since separation anxiety can be an issue with Havs. But I do want him to be interested in us. I did manage to attract his attention and get him licking my face and stuff. 

I'm pretty sure I have the option to get him whenever I want. They usually let them go at 9 weeks but she offered to keep him for 10. But it sounds like maybe I am better off getting him earlier? Is 8 weeks too early to be separated from the litter? I am not sure if that is an option or not. I know they learn so much from Mom and their littermates.

I think I am a bit cautious because in our family we have had some dogs that are a bit "daft", that just don't really care what you are thinking and seem to be in their own world to an extent. So I'd like to avoid that situation and I want a dog who will care when I call him to come and ask him to do something (or not do something). One of the dogs we had a problem with (I am talking about bichons & toy poodles here) actually seemed SO hyperactive that she could never spare a second to look at you or stand to stop wiggling long enough to sit. The other one was just really kind of in her own world. So... if I can teach this little guy to focus on us and to pay attention to us, and if he's not automatically hyperactive, it could be a good match.

But I wouldn't be able to really take him out anywhere to socialize him until his 2nd set of shots right? Though one vet told me that it's okay because they have immunity from Mom and from their 1st set of shots... but you have to be very sure to keep on the schedule.


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

*Pics of the little guy from our visit*

Here are a few pics from our visit. I had to make lots of noise but I did get him looking at the camera.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Naturelover said:


> The shaking did decrease after we were there for a while, it was mainly just when we picked him up right after we arrived and before we sat on the floor for a while playing with them. So he did warm up to us after some time.
> 
> I'm hoping to hear more from the breeder soon as she says she will have more time to go over and work with those guys now that the woman she's helping with the orphaned pups is going back home. If he's a little independent that is probably good since separation anxiety can be an issue with Havs. But I do want him to be interested in us. I did manage to attract his attention and get him licking my face and stuff.
> 
> ...


IMO, if the puppy is in an absolutely awesome environment, with people whoa re experienced enough to give them all the socialization they need, it's OK to leave them a little longer. In a less than ideal situation (and it kind of sounds that way because of the absentee breeder) it's better to take them earlier and start that critical socialization yourself. 8 weeks is the earliest you want to take them&#8230; Most larger breeds go to their new homes at that age. Many breeders of small breed puppies prefer to keep them to 10-12 weeks. If this was going to be my puppy, I'd want to get him as close to 8 weeks as possible.

Yes, you absolutely can and should start socializing him IMMEDIATELY&#8230; just be smart about it. Choose calm, friendly dogs that you know are healthy and appropriately vaccinated. DO NOT take him to Petsmart or Petco or to the dog park. By all means, walk him around your own back yard, but not on bust city streets where he can come into contact with waste from other dogs.

Start him in a well-run puppy K as soon as possible. (look around now for one you like and get him signed up even before you bring him home) And make sure he meets TONES of people every day, especially men (ESPECIALLY men with hats!!! ) and small children. I used a neighborhood day care for socialization. I had all the kids sit in a circle with treats. In turn, I'd have one after the other call him over, stroke him and give him a treat. This was a HUGE hit both with him AND the kids!

Remember that the window of opportunity for socialization is already closing by 16 weeks, so you don't have much time to do a LOT of intense work those first few weeks!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Naturelover said:


> Here are a few pics from our visit. I had to make lots of noise but I did get him looking at the camera.


He's adorable! And it's completely normal for puppies to avoid cameras&#8230; lots of adult dogs do too!


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

You can see in one of the pics he is sitting beside my boyfriend. Most of the other puppies would not even stay still enough to do that at all. And I know that's something my boyfriend preferred about this guy (he's a cat guy). Good to know it is normal for them to be a bit camera shy. I think he looks kind of hesitant in a lot of the pics because he's wondering what the heck I am doing pointing that thing at him!

As for the socialization, I do have a few friends with dogs I can bring him to. I know that one aspect of building confidence is letting the pup do things himself, e.g. have him walk into his crate himself instead of putting him there, have him approach new people himself instead of just picking him up and handing them to him. But when it comes to keeping him safe healthwise I may have to break a few of those guidelines. With a pup that is more reserved about new people is it a good thing or a bad thing to pass him around to a bunch of friends when he is young? Is it ok to pass from arm to arm even if he's timid about it and just let him get used to it and learn that the people won't hurt him?

The thing is we live right on busy city streets- I can probably bring him to my friend's place in the suburbs who has her own backyard, but even in my apartment building, other dogs will have walked in the hallways, the parking garage, everywhere. One thing I thought of doing would be to sit down in the apartment building lobby with him and let the people going in and out say hi to him and give him treats. But then they are coming in from the street too... just not sure how paranoid I would need to be vs. getting him the appropriate socialization.


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## Lillysmom (Oct 9, 2012)

He looks adorable! I like the one of him looking at you while licking your chin! There is a lot to be said for a calm dog! I would rather have a calm dog than an out of control rambunctious dog any day.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Naturelover said:


> With a pup that is more reserved about new people is it a good thing or a bad thing to pass him around to a bunch of friends when he is young? Is it ok to pass from arm to arm even if he's timid about it and just let him get used to it and learn that the people won't hurt him?
> 
> The thing is we live right on busy city streets- I can probably bring him to my friend's place in the suburbs who has her own backyard, but even in my apartment building, other dogs will have walked in the hallways, the parking garage, everywhere. One thing I thought of doing would be to sit down in the apartment building lobby with him and let the people going in and out say hi to him and give him treats. But then they are coming in from the street too... just not sure how paranoid I would need to be vs. getting him the appropriate socialization.


I know socialization is very important, but I'm not sure about flooding him with contact he's not ready for. I'd try to find a good, local positive based trainer who can help you make those decisions based on what she sees in him.


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

The breeder sent me a video of the little guy playing with the other pups and with her granddaughter. He was right in the middle having a good time. He got his tattoo and even a bit of grooming and apparently is a champ. I'm definitely feeling more relaxed overall now and now that I have been objective about this whole thing I finally get to be unabashedly excited about bringing little Archer home! So I'll be able to get him in about a week but my schedule might make it impossible for me to get over to Vancouver Island to get him... so he might stay till he is 9.5 weeks. But I am trying to make it happen as soon as possible. Also I am getting a better impression of the level of socializing and stuff that is going on over there so I will try to get him ASAP but I don't think it will be a disaster if I have to wait a wee bit longer.

Thanks again to everyone for your comments!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sounds awesome! Sounds like he was just having an "off" time when you saw him… it happens to all dogs (and people!) from time to time! SOOO glad you are feeling more confident about him, and can't wait to hear you've got him home!


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## andra (Aug 23, 2010)

HE IS ADORABLE


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