# Kodi's Agility Debut



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Well, Kodi had his public debut in Agility at the New England Pet Expo in Providence R.I. on Sunday. He was an agility demo dog for our training facility. As the youngest, least experienced agility dog there, he was a real crowd pleaser. Everyone was rooting for the little dog with the flying hair!:whoo: 

I was REALLY happy with Kodi. We did have some time to warm up in the ring, which he needed... It's not like a regular trial situation, there were hundreds of people pressed against the ring fence, kids dropping food and trash over the gating, very noisy, smells of other dogs, a cat show in the next room, ponies, sheep, goats, parrots screeching... you name it! but when we went into the ring to perform, he was awesome! The only mistake he made on the first course was "handler error". I sent him into the tunnel when I was supposed to send him up the A-frame. He did just what I asked him to do, I just got it wrong. On the second course, he missed his entry into the weaves, but otherwise had a great run, and the third time, we finally got it together. But for a dog that has never even competed in agility yet, (or even practiced anywhere but our regular training center) I couldn't have asked for more. I have to give myself a pat on the back too, because I really planned my courses, and where I was going to do my crosses, and stuck to the plan!:thumb: 

In between demos, I carried him around the show with me while we checked out booths. (and spoiled him rotten buying toys and goodies!) MANY people came up to us and asked, "Is that the little dog who was doing agility? Is he friendly? Can we pet him? He's SO soft!!!":biggrin1: I think he had a fun day too, but he slept ALL day yesterday!!!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Congratulations, I think agility is so fun to watch. Its funny that I woke up to this post because I went to sleep thinking about the course and how everyone walks around . I think it would be somewhat hard to remember whats next and you have to be a step ahead. 
Did you get a video? If this was his first how many hours of work did it take for you to get to this point?


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Fantastic! What a great practice for you and Kodi and lots of fun, too! Congrats on all your months of hard work!


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Karen, What an exciting day!!!!!! All your hard work is paying off in loads of fun for both you and Kodi. Such a big crowd and Kodi such a good boy to ignore it all. We do lots of proofing because some of the best dogs get distracted. Seems Kodi knows when he is on. I would have loved to have seen team Kodi and Karen!


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Yeahhh... Congratulations, handsome boy and Mom too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> Congratulations, I think agility is so fun to watch. Its funny that I woke up to this post because I went to sleep thinking about the course and how everyone walks around . I think it would be somewhat hard to remember whats next and you have to be a step ahead.
> Did you get a video? If this was his first how many hours of work did it take for you to get to this point?


I can't really tell you how many hours. First you need a strong foundation in obedience, and we took 2 classes a week of general obedience for his first year, as well as practicing every day. Then, after his first birthday we started agility classes, but also kept up with one day of obedience, and one day of Rally. So we do 3 classes per week, plus daily practice. All during the good weather, I tried to practice his weaves EVERY day. You don't spend a lot of time on it at once, but it usually takes a lot of practice to get that one down. We still miss entrances if I'm not careful. So it's been agility classes from last June till now. But he's STILL not ready to compete. He's still at the level where I need to stop and reinforce him regularly with treats to keep him focused on me. OTherwise, he just runs and does whatever obstacles he likes best (the contacts mostly!)

It IS hard to remember the course, and even more, it's hard to remember where to do your crosses to set up for the next part of the course. If you don't cross in the right place, you can end up running yourself into a corner you can't get out of.<g>

No, we didn't get any video this time... I didn't have anyone with me to man a camera, and it was just to busy and crowded.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kathie said:


> Fantastic! What a great practice for you and Kodi and lots of fun, too! Congrats on all your months of hard work!


Thanks! We really had a good time, and he LOVED all the attention.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Karen, What an exciting day!!!!!! All your hard work is paying off in loads of fun for both you and Kodi. Such a big crowd and Kodi such a good boy to ignore it all. We do lots of proofing because some of the best dogs get distracted. Seems Kodi knows when he is on. I would have loved to have seen team Kodi and Karen!


Well, as I mentioned to Suzi, we did NOT do it without treats. I don't need to lure him, but I DO need to bring him back to me and REWARD him for coming back to me... otherwise he runs amuck and starts doing what he wants with great enthusiasm, whether it's the right course or not!ound:


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Oh, I would have loved to have seen the 'little dog with the flying hair' doing the agility course! I always look forward to hearing of Kodi's and your experiences with these activities. What did you mean, 'the contacts', when you said he will run and do the obstacles he likes most? Wow, I guess I did not realize how many days a week you train (with actual classes). Maybe Augie and I will be ready in ten years?? Ha. The last agility event I watched (Suzi was there too), there were a couple of small dogs who wandered off course, and when we looked to see where they had gone, they had gotten under the fence and into the stands. Too funny! And some did, like you say, kind of ran amok and did their own course. I hope, one day soon, you can get someone to film you.  It sounds like you both had a great time. 

There are six dogs in Augie's Rally class - the other five are all at least Aussie or border collie size. People are always commenting on how cute Augie is - mostly his personality. Our goal is to hopefully compete in Rally by the end of the year. You are my inspiration, Karen.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Woot WOOOOOT! GO KODI and Karen!!! So proud of both of you!!!


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## dbeech (Jun 16, 2009)

Kodi is such a good representative for the Havanese breed!!


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## O'Bluff (Jan 29, 2011)

Congratulations Team K2! Wish I could seen that!


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## LilyMyLove (Jul 11, 2009)

Congratulations Kodi! Great work you guys, thats very inspiring!:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Congratulations!! "The little dog with the flying hair"... giggle. that is so cute.


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## Ninja (Nov 1, 2010)

Thats so great. It made me laugh when you said if you don't have treats he'll run and do the obsticles he likes best. LOL I can imagine him like "I wanna go on that one again" and run off ound:

Your hard work is paying off and it can be a real motivation to anyone looking into agility. I hope to see a video someday  Go Kodi!!


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## Cailleach (Jan 30, 2010)

Yay for the "K" team...go team go!!!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I would have loved to see a video of that. He's *so* good.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Well, we wouldn't have to train so many days if we didn't want to do EVERYTHING!!! And honestly, I ENJOY the training. If it wasn't fun for both of us, I wouldn't do it. But Kodi is my step-down partner from training horses, so the amount of time and work involved seems very small in comparison.

The "contacts" are the obstacles that the dog needs to climb: dog walk, A-frame and teeter. They are called contacts because there is a "contact zone" (pained a different color) on both the on and off sides that the dog MUST make contact with going over the obstacle. Kodi is totally obsessed with the teeter, and will choose it over ANYTHING else in his field of view if I don't REALLY keep his attention on me!

I'm sure you and Augie will do great when the time comes to get into the ring. I had no idea what to expect at my first Rally event. I really had NO idea how he'd do. He has gotten consistently high scores, so now I'm getting greedy.<g> Qualifying isn't good enough... I want to Q a high score too!<g>


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks, everybody. He IS a really good little guy!

We had our class last night, and he was AWESOME!!!! He's really starting to get that it's not ALL about the obstacles, but that he's got to pay attention to me in terms of where to go next. I was able to get through a long and very complicated course only stopping him once for a treat/reward. And I didn't do it because he was losing focus, I did it as a reward for NOT losing focus.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

We did one six-week session where we were taking two classes a week and I could definitely see faster improvement during that time, even though we 'practice' every day when we are only taking one class a week. It is just very helpful to work on maintaining their attention with all the distractions - other dogs, dropped treats, etc. I would definitely say Augie 'gets it' faster than I do! We really enjoy going to classes too. I hope our trainer will have a beginning agility class soon.

I can definitely understand how you would 'get greedy' and want the high scores.  My kids were involved in competitive swimming, and it was always about improving their times.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Karen, For years I have had that same thinking about the time involved training and even grooming...compared to a horse or two..small dogs are easy to keep in coat and training you don't have to be as careful!!!! Oh and no show saddle's to clean with lots of silver, Yay. They're cute fun and I don't have to worry about falling in my old age...ok so I could trip, its not so far down though.

Linda, I often have trouble with the left, rights...my trainer teases me and says she can't help with that LOL.


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## brugmansia (Dec 6, 2007)

Congrats to both of you!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> We did one six-week session where we were taking two classes a week and I could definitely see faster improvement during that time, even though we 'practice' every day when we are only taking one class a week. It is just very helpful to work on maintaining their attention with all the distractions - other dogs, dropped treats, etc. I would definitely say Augie 'gets it' faster than I do! We really enjoy going to classes too. I hope our trainer will have a beginning agility class soon.
> 
> I can definitely understand how you would 'get greedy' and want the high scores.  My kids were involved in competitive swimming, and it was always about improving their times.


Yes, Kodi can be LETTER PERFECT at home, but that's not the same thing as being at a training center with all the distractions... that's a LOT harder. Actually, I've found that training sessions are HARDER than being in the competition ring, just because so many people drop food on the floor. When you've got a little dog, whose face is close to the floor anyway, it can be a real challenge to keep them from floor surfing with bits of cheese and deli meat all over the place!<g>

Even in APDT, where you are allowed to use food in the ring, there's rarely anything on the floor. People are VERY careful, because if either the handler OR the dog drops anything, it's an automatic 3 point deduction. Plus, the food rewards can only be given at the end of a stationary exercise, and where Kodi is MOST likely to go surfing is during long, open heeling patterns. The stationary exercises he thinks of as "tricks" and he's usually right with me.

At our training center, there are "classes" that you sign up for in 6 week blocks, and then there are "drop-ins". The drop-ins are cheap... the obedience drop-in is $8 for members ($10 for non-members) and Rally drop-ins are $4 per run. ($5 for non-members) I love the fact that I only have one class that I feel like I HAVE to work around because I've pre-paid. I PLAN on doing both the obedience drop-in and Rally each week, but if something comes up, I don't feel like I've wasted any money.

I stopped doing a regular obedience class a while ago, because Kodi was having a really hard time with all the waiting around we did while the instructor explained things and worked with other dogs. He started this demand barking in the ring that was driving me to distraction, and I couldn't get him to stop, no matter what I tried. He doesn't do it in agility classes (even though, in general, there are a lot more barking dogs) because he can wait in his crate. But there wasn't REALLY enough time to put him in his crate during the obedience classes, and also there was no place to put the crate without it being in the way.

So now we take occasional private lessons to work on new skills and then use the drop-in for our practice. Even though the private lessons are expensive, I think, in the end, I probably pay about the same amount because we only do one every few weeks. The person who runs the drop-ins really keeps things moving, because it is expected that that class is more of a "practice" than introducing new skills, so he doesn't get frustrated with the waiting. The only thing we need to wait for is our turn for the recall. And for that, I just take him out of the ring until it's our turn. With this approach, his barking in the ring has almost completely stopped. (thank heavens!!!:biggrin1

You should ask if you HAVE to wait for a beginning agility class. It could be that with a couple of private lessons to introduce Augie to the equipment, he could join a class of slightly more experienced dogs. When Kodi and I joined our current class, he was MUCH less experienced than the other dogs. When it was our turn, the instructor would break it down and just have us do a shorter sequence, or would help us with a new piece of equipment. It was a bit of a challenge, but he's learned really fast, and so have I. I think I've learned a lot MORE in this class by being able to watch the more experienced handlers choose where and how to do their crosses, etc. In the beginner's class we did, all of us were bumbling around, so you couldn't really learn from watching the others!ound:

As I said before, the hardest part is getting the weaves down, and for that, if you don't want it to take an AGE, you really need to practice at home. Kodi is actually doing worse on the weaves now than he was last fall, and I'm sure it is because until all the snow came, we were running the weaves at home every day. Not a lot... when we finished a walk, or went out to potty, we'd just run then once or twice in each direction. But it makes a big difference.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Karen, For years I have had that same thinking about the time involved training and even grooming...compared to a horse or two..small dogs are easy to keep in coat and training you don't have to be as careful!!!! Oh and no show saddle's to clean with lots of silver, Yay. They're cute fun and I don't have to worry about falling in my old age...ok so I could trip, its not so far down though.


I was thinking the same thing as I packed Kodi's bag and (little) crate into my Mini Cooper for our last trial... If it were a horse show, I would have spent the full day before the show cleaning tack, washing the horse and packing the trailer. Then I would have been up at some crazy hour before dawn to spend another hour and a half braiding and wrapping. Get to the show in time for (at least) 1/2 hour of warm-up (depending on the horse... with the young'uns, it was 1/2 hour on the lunge then an hour under saddle before a class!<g>). Then spend the day AFTER the show putting everything away again. And I thought that was FUN!?!? What was WRONG with me?!?!?ound:

(and then I hear people complain about the cost of showing (or trialing) dogs. EVERYTHING with horses is that x10 from what I've seen!

Plus, as you said, this is SO much easier on the body. (though nothing keeps the weight off like cleaning stalls every day!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Karen, For years I have had that same thinking about the time involved training and even grooming...compared to a horse or two..small dogs are easy to keep in coat and training you don't have to be as careful!!!! Oh and no show saddle's to clean with lots of silver, Yay. They're cute fun and I don't have to worry about falling in my old age...ok so I could trip, its not so far down though.


I was thinking the same thing as I packed Kodi's bag and (little) crate into my Mini Cooper for our last trial... If it were a horse show, I would have spent the full day before the show cleaning tack, washing the horse and packing the trailer. Then I would have been up at some crazy hour before dawn to spend another hour and a half braiding and wrapping. Get to the show in time for (at least) 1/2 hour of warm-up (depending on the horse... with the young'uns, it was 1/2 hour on the lunge then an hour under saddle before a class!<g>). Then spend the day AFTER the show putting everything away again. And I thought that was FUN!?!? What was WRONG with me?!?!?ound:

(and then I hear people complain about the cost of showing (or trialing) dogs. EVERYTHING with horses is that x10 from what I've seen!

Plus, as you said, this is SO much easier on the body. (though nothing keeps the weight off like cleaning stalls every day!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Karen, are there several instructors at your training center? We don't really have a 'training center'. We have one instructor in our area. If there are more, I don't know about them. She holds classes at different locations. Our Rally class and her agility classes are held in a big barn. It has a sand floor, so kind of a pain as I have to throw Augie in the tub when we get home and rinse his feet in a pan of water (so the sand doesn't all go down the drain). Also people have been quite careless with their treats, dropping them in the sand, and that has been QUITE a distraction with him. I am getting somewhat better with holding his attention, though it is hard to compete with a good treat in such easy reach!  So I like the part about AKC where there are NO treats allowed in the ring. I have gotten so I don't treat him at all during our practice course run-throughs unless it is a move where he has had difficulty and he does it exceptionally well. I treat him after. I really like our trainer. She is very good at not letting people distract her with non-related stuff, keeping on task, watching to see where we could do better and gives everyone equal attention and keeps the class moving. She keeps class size to six people/dog teams. Augie is definitely tired at the end of class. I definitely feel we are getting what we pay for. But we don't have a drop-in opportunity available. 

You know, that might be a very good idea - to ask her about some private lessons to get started in agility. She says Augie is doing very well in the Rally and I think he will pick up the agility fast too. He's no dummy!  Our trainer talks about going out and walking the course before she competes with her dogs and how she memorizes the course and plans her strategy. That is definitely where I am going to have trouble. I am not so sure I can memorize the course. We will see. This is definitely good 'brain exercise'!! I surely don't have any high expectations at this point. We are just doing this for fun. I finally printed off some Rally signs to make flash cards. Should have done that before. I need to be able to think faster on the about turns and pivot turns and differentiate between them faster than I am doing now. 

It was so much fun watching the agility event at the last dog show I attended. You could tell those dogs were having the time of their lives!


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Brilliant,well done Kodi, he really is such a good little dog,I bet he stole the show, and of course he couldn't do it without his Mum!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> Karen, are there several instructors at your training center? We don't really have a 'training center'. We have one instructor in our area. If there are more, I don't know about them. She holds classes at different locations. Our Rally class and her agility classes are held in a big barn. It has a sand floor, so kind of a pain as I have to throw Augie in the tub when we get home and rinse his feet in a pan of water (so the sand doesn't all go down the drain). Also people have been quite careless with their treats, dropping them in the sand, and that has been QUITE a distraction with him. I am getting somewhat better with holding his attention, though it is hard to compete with a good treat in such easy reach!  So I like the part about AKC where there are NO treats allowed in the ring. I have gotten so I don't treat him at all during our practice course run-throughs unless it is a move where he has had difficulty and he does it exceptionally well. I treat him after. I really like our trainer. She is very good at not letting people distract her with non-related stuff, keeping on task, watching to see where we could do better and gives everyone equal attention and keeps the class moving. She keeps class size to six people/dog teams. Augie is definitely tired at the end of class. I definitely feel we are getting what we pay for. But we don't have a drop-in opportunity available.
> 
> You know, that might be a very good idea - to ask her about some private lessons to get started in agility. She says Augie is doing very well in the Rally and I think he will pick up the agility fast too. He's no dummy!  Our trainer talks about going out and walking the course before she competes with her dogs and how she memorizes the course and plans her strategy. That is definitely where I am going to have trouble. I am not so sure I can memorize the course. We will see. This is definitely good 'brain exercise'!! I surely don't have any high expectations at this point. We are just doing this for fun. I finally printed off some Rally signs to make flash cards. Should have done that before. I need to be able to think faster on the about turns and pivot turns and differentiate between them faster than I am doing now.
> 
> It was so much fun watching the agility event at the last dog show I attended. You could tell those dogs were having the time of their lives!


Yes, our center is owned by a husband and wife team who are both trainers (she does the obedience/rally stuff, he does agility) but then there are several other instructors as well. There are classes or drop-ins every morning, and most evenings, and the afternoons are usually available for privates or ring rentals. So there are a LOT of different choices. There are two rings, and both are rubber matted, so they are easy to keep clean, easy on the dogs' joints and the dogs stay clean. Pretty much every indoor dog training place in this area is rubber matted.

If you can learn a rally course, you can learn an agility course... there are less different types of obstacles, and they are numbered, just the way they are in rally. The only difference is that (eventually) you need to do it faster.:biggrin1:

As far as food is concerned, our trainers (all of them) are big on "putting money in the bank"... i.e. rewarding a dog LOTS while they are learning, then slowly fading the (food)rewards over time. It's pretty obvious when the dog is ready for you to fade the rewards on a specific behavior.

If you don't use food during run-thoughs, what DO you do if you lose Augie's attention? Our trainers don't want you to EVER tighten the leash, because the whole point is to eventually be able to trust the dog to stay in heel position without the leash. So you have to have some way of brining their attention back to you in a positive way.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

clare said:


> Brilliant,well done Kodi, he really is such a good little dog,I bet he stole the show, and of course he couldn't do it without his Mum!!


Thanks! But I don't know about that. I agree, I think he's brilliant too. But just think what he could do in the hands of someone who knew what they were doing!:biggrin1:


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

krandall said:


> Thanks! But I don't know about that. I agree, I think he's brilliant too. But just think what he could do in the hands of someone who knew what they were doing!:biggrin1:


Ha - methinks you are being too modest! 

No, can't tighten the leash - that is a no-no. In the novice level, where leashes are allowed, every time the leash goes tight it results in loss of points, from what I understand. I just talk to Augie, pretty much like I do when we are walking and his attention starts to stray and tell him what a great job he is doing . And when I get my speed picked up, like I am supposed to do , it really isn't too much of a problem keeping his attention, aside from the occasional dropped treat he smells on the floor. I do treat him when we are working on a new exercise or just practicing the exercises, but not every single time. This class is called "advanced" - we have completed the basic exercises in the beginning class. But our trainer feels that we should complete the advanced class before competing in the novice competition. Augie's main problem is ME - seeing the sign and computing in my mind what it is asking (even though we have walked the course beforehand) and moving through the course evenly and quickly. I obviously have a bigger problem with attention deficit and coordination than HE does. Ha!  Trying to wrangle a dog and a leash and a treat and read signs and using a clicker when learning the exercise - AAACK! :biggrin1:


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

The agility classes I took with my Aussies pretty much proved that I am an uncoordinated flibbertigibbet. My poor dogs. I would be skipping along and completely forget where I was supposed to go next. 

So what if it was numbered. I couldn't remember the number of the last obstacle we did. My best moment was when Nessie stopped in the middle of the course, looked at me spinning around like a drunk ballerina and just laid down where she was until I was ready to go on. The rest of the class was rolling. You could heard Nessie sigh. 

I can't wait until Jack is old enough to go to agility classes.  I make everyone else look really good.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> No, can't tighten the leash - that is a no-no. In the novice level, where leashes are allowed, every time the leash goes tight it results in loss of points, from what I understand.


Right, that's the same whether you're doing APDT or AKC.



motherslittlehelper said:


> I just talk to Augie, pretty much like I do when we are walking and his attention starts to stray and tell him what a great job he is doing . And when I get my speed picked up, like I am supposed to do , it really isn't too much of a problem keeping his attention, aside from the occasional dropped treat he smells on the floor.


He must have better innate attention than Kodi does. Kodi was a HORRIBLE floor surfer to start with. I had to hand him treats every 4 or 5 steps for a LONG time to keep his attention OFF the floor and ON me.<g> He does MUCH better now, especially in competition, where there's been no food on the floor, but I still reinforce good attention A LOT. (that's something I've needed to do in agility too. There, it's not floor surfing that's a problem, but choosing his own course<g>)

The other thing is that after novice level, you're faced with the offset figure 8 with food dishes, in both AKC and APDT... and the dog is off leash. So it's really important to be able to keep their attention on you even IF there's food on the floor. We recently started practicing by putting goodies inside suet-type wire bird feeders so I can practice heeling around and past them while keeping Kodi's attention on me. I still need food for that.:biggrin1:



motherslittlehelper said:


> I do treat him when we are working on a new exercise or just practicing the exercises, but not every single time. This class is called "advanced" - we have completed the basic exercises in the beginning class. But our trainer feels that we should complete the advanced class before competing in the novice competition.


We don't have a rally "class", just run-thoughs. The classes are all various levels of obedience. But the trainers all know (and use) the rally moves, because the whole idea behind them was that they all make dogs better obedience dogs in the long run. But we had seen all the Rally signs, right up through "Excellent" (or Level 3 in APDT) before I started doing trials. We can't do ALL of them yet... He can't back straight without a wall or guide pole yet, which is an AKC requirement at higher levels, and he can't reliably retrieve, hold and release an item, which is a level 3 APDT exercise. (I'm sure there are others too, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head)

I did our second run-though today off leash, with just a long line trailing. He as awesome! Even better than he had been on leash. That's the first time we've tried it at run-throughs, so I was very happy.



motherslittlehelper said:


> Augie's main problem is ME - seeing the sign and computing in my mind what it is asking (even though we have walked the course beforehand) and moving through the course evenly and quickly. I obviously have a bigger problem with attention deficit and coordination than HE does. Ha!  Trying to wrangle a dog and a leash and a treat and read signs and using a clicker when learning the exercise - AAACK! :biggrin1:


Awww, you'll get it! In no time, you two will be stars! How long are your sets of classes? It sounds like you guys are doing GEAT for the length of time you've been doing it!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

morriscsps said:


> The agility classes I took with my Aussies pretty much proved that I am an uncoordinated flibbertigibbet. My poor dogs. I would be skipping along and completely forget where I was supposed to go next.
> 
> So what if it was numbered. I couldn't remember the number of the last obstacle we did. My best moment was when Nessie stopped in the middle of the course, looked at me spinning around like a drunk ballerina and just laid down where she was until I was ready to go on. The rest of the class was rolling. You could heard Nessie sigh.
> 
> I can't wait until Jack is old enough to go to agility classes.  I make everyone else look really good.


ound:ound:ound:

I should not laugh too loud, however. I have a hunch that is how I am going to be!!! That was a wonderful visual Pam!! :biggrin1: A drunk ballerina.....ound:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> The agility classes I took with my Aussies pretty much proved that I am an uncoordinated flibbertigibbet. My poor dogs. I would be skipping along and completely forget where I was supposed to go next.
> 
> So what if it was numbered. I couldn't remember the number of the last obstacle we did. My best moment was when Nessie stopped in the middle of the course, looked at me spinning around like a drunk ballerina and just laid down where she was until I was ready to go on. The rest of the class was rolling. You could heard Nessie sigh.
> 
> I can't wait until Jack is old enough to go to agility classes.  I make everyone else look really good.


Pretty funny, but I suspect we ALL think we're the "worst" when we're out there. There is only one person in our class that we all hate. (well, not really, but you know what I mean...) There is this absolutely drop-dead gorgeous young girl, maybe 17 or 18, who comes with her mom and her adorable little Papillon. She's tall and slender, with these beautiful long legs, and she MOVES like a ballerina. She makes EVERY course look easy.

.. THEN the rest of us have to go.ound:


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Karen, how old is Kodi? I think Augie is a bit older (he was 2 in October), so some of the attention issue just may be a maturity thing. We had two 4 wk sessions of puppy classes when he was a puppy, and then did not do any more formal classes until this past Sept., although I did work on the skills we were taught in puppy classes. Then in Sept., we started again with basic obedience (8 wks), and then a 6 wk class of CGC (which we still haven't tested for) and 6 wk class of Beginning Rally - The CGC and beginning rally being taken in the same six-week time period. And, now, Advanced Rally.

We have class tonight. He did something weird today while we were practicing. When he was supposed to get in heel position from the 'front' position, he got up on his hind legs about midway there and bounced like a kangaroo, turned around in place on his hind legs and then sat in heel position?? Hope he forgets THAT move tonight.  Maybe we should join the circus. :biggrin1: What I think would be REALLY fun is that freestyle dance stuff. Is that offered at your center?


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I love reading these posts it lets me know we are not that bad just normal. Meaning I get mixed up on occasion, this happens when Yogi is having a reactive day, I am like a hawk with watching so I can distract him, so it's hard to listen. I am really hoping that I can offically do Rally with Misty but where we go you can not do Rally without first passing the CGC. I have done some classes with her drop ins on invitation (I did not pay either). She is shy and now she will finally let someone touch her put I have to lure her with food the whole time, not allowed in the test. Plus there is the 5 minute separation. This is all normal stuff its just being touched is hard for her. In our class is a Clumber Spaniel he is a big boy!!!! Misty is terrified of him!!!! He is sooo playful and his owner can not control him and his feet are so big. She gets in trouble for not having control, so two weeks ago she pointed at me and said I brought my bitch that is obviously in heat. Misty is spayed, but he just wants to get to her. The trainer's were impressed with my cool. Misty's little head would fit in his mouth. For now I am just trying to work with Misty and anyone I can get to help with touching her.

Karen, It is sooo true I don't feel the training is so expesive or the entrance fees, yet I meet all these people who talk about the money and vet bills, just one Vet visit for a horse!!!! Yes everything is x 10 including the work.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> Karen, how old is Kodi? I think Augie is a bit older (he was 2 in October), so some of the attention issue just may be a maturity thing. We had two 4 wk sessions of puppy classes when he was a puppy, and then did not do any more formal classes until this past Sept., although I did work on the skills we were taught in puppy classes. Then in Sept., we started again with basic obedience (8 wks), and then a 6 wk class of CGC (which we still haven't tested for) and 6 wk class of Beginning Rally - The CGC and beginning rally being taken in the same six-week time period. And, now, Advanced Rally.
> 
> We have class tonight. He did something weird today while we were practicing. When he was supposed to get in heel position from the 'front' position, he got up on his hind legs about midway there and bounced like a kangaroo, turned around in place on his hind legs and then sat in heel position?? Hope he forgets THAT move tonight.  Maybe we should join the circus. :biggrin1: What I think would be REALLY fun is that freestyle dance stuff. Is that offered at your center?


Kodi will be 2 at the end of April, so yes, he's still a baby.. And you might be right that some of his distractibility is just immaturity. That would be nice, anyway!

What you describe Augie did today sounds EXACTLY like Kodi's finishes. I've never had anyone complain about it yet. He hasn't gotten marked down for it in APDT competition, and when he has been observe (informally) by AKC judges at our training center, no one has suggested that I discourage his "flourish".. In fact one judge told me that if she could have given him extra points for "cuteness" she would have.ound:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> I love reading these posts it lets me know we are not that bad just normal. Meaning I get mixed up on occasion, this happens when Yogi is having a reactive day, I am like a hawk with watching so I can distract him, so it's hard to listen. I am really hoping that I can offically do Rally with Misty but where we go you can not do Rally without first passing the CGC. I have done some classes with her drop ins on invitation (I did not pay either). She is shy and now she will finally let someone touch her put I have to lure her with food the whole time, not allowed in the test. Plus there is the 5 minute separation. This is all normal stuff its just being touched is hard for her. In our class is a Clumber Spaniel he is a big boy!!!! Misty is terrified of him!!!! He is sooo playful and his owner can not control him and his feet are so big. She gets in trouble for not having control, so two weeks ago she pointed at me and said I brought my bitch that is obviously in heat. Misty is spayed, but he just wants to get to her. The trainer's were impressed with my cool. Misty's little head would fit in his mouth. For now I am just trying to work with Misty and anyone I can get to help with touching her.
> 
> Karen, It is sooo true I don't feel the training is so expesive or the entrance fees, yet I meet all these people who talk about the money and vet bills, just one Vet visit for a horse!!!! Yes everything is x 10 including the work.


I can't believe how rude the person with the Clumber was! Didn't the instructor speak to her? At our training center they are VERY careful about dogs intimidating one another. If the owners don't figure it out and deal with it themselves, the trainers will step in, separate the dogs who are having trouble with each other, and give the person whose dog is causing the problem help to learn to keep their dog out of trouble.

If the dog STILL can't behave in a group environment, they are asked to leave the class and. Invited to take private lessons until the dog is in better control.

There are some things I would have to really work on before doing the CGC test with Kodi. I know the want them to allow someone to touch them all over, and Kodi is very sensitive about his feet. he won't do anything bad, but he'll dance around and try to pull his feet away. Also, I have to admit, I let him put his feet up on me for pats. He doesn't jump... He's very polite about it, but I'm tall and he's short, so it makes it easier to love on him if we split the distance.. As a result, he thinks it's OK to do with other people too. I'd have to really work on teaching him that it's OK sometimes but not others. Sometimes I think it's not worth it to do the CGC because he can easily do all the things in the test that are important to me, and the things he can't ddo, I'm not very motivated to change.

Is that some rule of your training center? It's certainly not a rule for competition. Could you get them to wave the rule for her due to her specific problems? It's not like she's overall poorly trained... She doesn't need to have someone touching her in Rally, and she doesn't need you to leave the room either. I don't see the point of not allowing her to do rally just because she (at this point) is too shy to deal with those to specific tests.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

The Clumber Woman is kinda difficult for the trainers, they help her all the time, she seems to lack listening skills. The one trainer kind of got in her face about it. she trys to pair her dog with mine, but the trainers are aware and openly send her off with a larger dog. Poor Misty has had only large dogs in every class we have taken and she is a small Hav. She is a good sport but the Clumber makes her forget all training and she sits facing backwards. 

I haven't ask them about lifting the rule, it could be because so many people want to do Rally and they don't want dogs that do not have basic skills as they limit the number of students and have a limited number of classes except the beginner classes. There is a big training facility in Sanford 45 mins I use to do Agility there and in the summer I will enroll both Misty and Yogi in a class, where I go they do not have summer classes, we use the community rec. ctr. and too many kids in the summer. I am going to try to progress Misty to pass the test and if she doesn't then I will talk to them. Because I have been working with Yogi for so long, Misty has progressed quickly. I had the tunnel set up outside with some jumps today and Misty was having a good time, my blind dog Boo boo loves the tunnel he likes to show how he can do it too. Yogi gets sooo jealous and whines when they get a turn LOL.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Our trainer is also careful of any dog that tries to intimidate another or that is out of control. She works with the owner so they can get in control of their dog. She knows which dogs the rest of us need to give a little more space. She is definitely in control of her classes and doesn't put up with any nonsense. We took the CGC class but haven't had an opportunity to take the test. Our trainer does testing periodically. We did a 'practice' test at the end of class which Augie passed, but I am sure we would need to brush up on skills before actual testing. Augie was allowed to start Rally at the same time we started the CGC class. We have had a lot of big dogs in our classes too, Robbie. At first, Augie was quite intimidated but has gotten much better around them the more he is exposed to them. I love taking the classes as I just think it provides good experiences for him.....

Until tonight - AAARGH!! There was a female in heat there. She had her little diaper thingy on. Wherever she had been in the barn, Augie was there with his nose in the sand - sniffing, sniffing, sniffing. I told him I was going to put Vick's Vaporub on his nose for next class so he couldn't smell anything! I swear he is a bloodhound in a Havanese costume! So tonight I had to work extra hard at keeping his attention and I wasn't altogether succeeding. He was pretty darned squirrely. Several of the dogs were acting up.

Karen, I asked about his kangaroo hop finish, and our trainer said there was no rule against it. I was surprised to learn that. Are dogs allowed to compete when they are in heat? If so, we may be in TROUBLE!

And now I have to go look up a clumber spaniel as I don't know that one.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> The Clumber Woman is kinda difficult for the trainers, they help her all the time, she seems to lack listening skills. The one trainer kind of got in her face about it. she trys to pair her dog with mine, but the trainers are aware and openly send her off with a larger dog. Poor Misty has had only large dogs in every class we have taken and she is a small Hav. She is a good sport but the Clumber makes her forget all training and she sits facing backwards.
> 
> I haven't ask them about lifting the rule, it could be because so many people want to do Rally and they don't want dogs that do not have basic skills as they limit the number of students and have a limited number of classes except the beginner classes. There is a big training facility in Sanford 45 mins I use to do Agility there and in the summer I will enroll both Misty and Yogi in a class, where I go they do not have summer classes, we use the community rec. ctr. and too many kids in the summer. I am going to try to progress Misty to pass the test and if she doesn't then I will talk to them. Because I have been working with Yogi for so long, Misty has progressed quickly. I had the tunnel set up outside with some jumps today and Misty was having a good time, my blind dog Boo boo loves the tunnel he likes to show how he can do it too. Yogi gets sooo jealous and whines when they get a turn LOL.


Maybe they should try an e-collar on the woman!ound:

Kodi is usually in classes with mostly big dogs too, though we do have a mix. He really doesn't mind well behaved big dogs. But if they jump at him, or slap with their front feet the way lab puppies do, he gets intimidated. (who can blame them?!?) One thing I really like about our agility class is that it is specifically for small dogs. We have two 8" dogs and the rest jump 12", so everyone is pretty well matched and have similar issues to face. That's one of the nice things about having a big, busy training center nearby... they can put together a lot of different types of classes.

It must be great fun seeing Boo Boo enjoying "agility" along with his buddies!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> Our trainer is also careful of any dog that tries to intimidate another or that is out of control. She works with the owner so they can get in control of their dog. She knows which dogs the rest of us need to give a little more space. She is definitely in control of her classes and doesn't put up with any nonsense. We took the CGC class but haven't had an opportunity to take the test. Our trainer does testing periodically. We did a 'practice' test at the end of class which Augie passed, but I am sure we would need to brush up on skills before actual testing. Augie was allowed to start Rally at the same time we started the CGC class. We have had a lot of big dogs in our classes too, Robbie. At first, Augie was quite intimidated but has gotten much better around them the more he is exposed to them. I love taking the classes as I just think it provides good experiences for him.....
> 
> Until tonight - AAARGH!! There was a female in heat there. She had her little diaper thingy on. Wherever she had been in the barn, Augie was there with his nose in the sand - sniffing, sniffing, sniffing. I told him I was going to put Vick's Vaporub on his nose for next class so he couldn't smell anything! I swear he is a bloodhound in a Havanese costume! So tonight I had to work extra hard at keeping his attention and I wasn't altogether succeeding. He was pretty darned squirrely. Several of the dogs were acting up.
> 
> ...


We don't have a specific class for CGC. I was there a couple of weeks ago for a rally show and go, and they were doing CGC and therapy dog testing in the other ring. I noticed that there were VERY few dogs from our training center doing the testing... it seemed to be mostly people from the outside. I think MOST of the dogs in my classes could easily pass the CGC, but it just doesn't seem like a priority for most of them. Not sure why.

You can't enter a bitch in heat in competition. I don't think we havge any firm rules about it for classes. (with a neutered male, I haven't paid much attention!) but I HAVE noticed that most people with unspayed females tend to keep them home from classes when they're in heat. And we have a LOT of intact dogs around, because many people show in conformation as well as obedience or agility venues.

Clumbers look like Cocker Spaniels on steroids. One won Westminster a couple of years ago at something like 10 years of age! They can be laid back to the point of being comatose, so you don't see them in performance sports that often. The one that's bothering Augie must be "special".:biggrin1:


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Clumber spaniels are BIG! They may have only 2 inch long legs  but they are solid masses of doggieness. I think 70 lbs is the normal. Misty must be smaller than his head! Poor Misty. 

I could never have a Clumber spaniel. All that drool. blech. I am anti-drool.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

How exciting for you and Kodi. I had never heard of Agility before last year. A friend I reconnected with on FB was in town with her Weimaraner and my daughters and I went to watch. It was fascinating. The show stealer was a little Chihuahua. He was so cute and when he finished he jumped up into his owners arms! That was when we got the dog bug.

Lizzie is starting up a basic class in a few weeks. We were puppy school dropouts due to her vomiting on the car ride there. Plus, she was very shy around the dogs. She only likes the little dogs in the neighborhood. Most of the puppies were larger breeds and very high strung.

Congrats, again!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

No, I wouldn't be interested in having a dog that drooled either. Blech. There are a few breeds that I am not sure what the attraction is - basset hounds are one that come to mind. The neighbor has one, or did. And I guess I shouldn't say that, because I really wasn't around it enough to learn what its personality was like. Appearance-wise, however, no appeal to me at all. 

Thank goodness they don't allow dogs in heat to compete; if they did, we might as well decide absolutely we are just doing this as an activity with no thought of ever competing. Karen, Augie has been neutered. He doesn't lift his leg, he doesn't mark, he doesn't hump. BUT....if there is any smell to be smelled, he is johnny-on-the-spot right there smelling. The trainer felt it was the female in heat that he was smelling, where she had sat on the floor. In our beginning obedience class, there was one night where he acted like that - it was held in a doggie day care business. He went around the room smelling every single surface - nothing visible was in site - and she thought that was probably what he was smelling there too. He is on leash when we take him out to potty. I can tell if anything has been in the yard, as he will put his nose to the ground and go nuts following the path that some animal has made - zigzagging all over the place. Are all Havs as into following scents as that? The female in heat is an Irish setter. Maybe the owner thinks it only fair that our dogs have a distraction too. There are chicken barns to one side and behind the barn where we train. This setter will get toward the back of our barn and just stops and faces the back of the barn and won't move. Will NOT turn her back end toward the back of the barn. She obviously has had quite a bit of training, because when she isn't distracted, she moves very nicely through the course.

Our CGC class was called Level II Obedience but covered things that the dogs would need to know to pass the test. And I still would like to pass it. I think he might be a good therapy dog - he loves kids. As he is getting a little older, he is calming down and will sit nicely with people now. 

Karen, it sounds like you have a WONDERFUL facility for training. I just don't think there is the demand for that much here. Portland may have something, I don't know. Do you have to drive far? Robbie, it sounds like yours isn't too bad of a drive at 45 minutes, if you don't have to deal with nasty traffic. 

Robbie, that is neat that Boo Boo joins in and does the things that the other dogs are doing.


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## jacqui (Aug 7, 2007)

krandall said:


> Well, Kodi had his public debut in Agility at the New England Pet Expo in Providence R.I. on Sunday. He was an agility demo dog for our training facility. As the youngest, least experienced agility dog there, he was a real crowd pleaser. Everyone was rooting for the little dog with the flying hair!


Sounds like a hoot! I love to watch agility and have a ton of respect for the time owners have to put into it.

Congrats!


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

During much of the year I only drive less then 10 mins to class, in the summer I drive 45. At our training center females in heat are a no no, that is why the Clumber woman was saying Misty was in heat, she was trying to get rid of the distraction. Her dog is still an over grown puppy she is trying to show in conformation and is doing obedience also to get some control of her dog. It is not the dogs fault the owner just has no listening skills. If the owner does not listen and their dog is out of control because of it, after the class is over they can't enroll again. I have seen in the beginning class owners with Labs and shepards out of control and if after the third time they refuse to work on a prong coller, they are out. In Misty's classes until this class all of the dogs have been on prong collers except her. These dogs were way out of control and breaking free.

Where we train they do CGC testing three times a year and Therapy at the same time. They have a big program for Therapy dogs. There is also an obedience and Rally AKC trial at our center in April.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lizzie'sMom said:


> How exciting for you and Kodi. I had never heard of Agility before last year. A friend I reconnected with on FB was in town with her Weimaraner and my daughters and I went to watch. It was fascinating. The show stealer was a little Chihuahua. He was so cute and when he finished he jumped up into his owners arms! That was when we got the dog bug.
> 
> Lizzie is starting up a basic class in a few weeks. We were puppy school dropouts due to her vomiting on the car ride there. Plus, she was very shy around the dogs. She only likes the little dogs in the neighborhood. Most of the puppies were larger breeds and very high strung.
> 
> Congrats, again!


Hi Lynne, agility can be great for building a dog's confidence. If you're lucky (like I am!) you might be able to find a training center that offers a "small dog" agility class. It doesn't matter THAT much, our beginning agility class was mixed dog sizes, but if she's intimidated by bigger dogs, it might help. Kodi likes to be in his crate in between runs anyway, so he's nice and cozy, tucked away and bigger dogs can't bother him.

The dogs are always on course separately anyway, so that part doesn't matter much. But if there isn't much room between the obstacles and where people are sitting with large dogs, it can be a bit off-putting. The biggest problem with mixed sizes in an agility class is having to change the height of all the jumps between runs all the time.

You also might want to try some private obedience lessons, or see if you can go somewhere else that has better control of the dogs in the class. Kodi's obedience classes contain Huskies, Malamutes, Great Danes and a German Shepherd, but the dogs are all under good control, or they wouldn't be in the class. In fact, we have to separate Kodi from the Dane during long sits and downs, because he isn't that reliable in them yet, and if he gets up and starts moving (he's not purposely going toward her) SHE is intimidated by HIM!ound: But her owner and I both know this, so we just make sure there is least one other dog between the two of them. Likewise, though the Malamute is always well behaved, she is young and playful, and her owner doesn't take any chances. She keeps her WELL away from Kodi just incase she decides he looks like a stuffed animal toy.

If you get Lizzie to the point that she can participate in more advanced classes, you probably won't have any problem, because by that point, all the other dogs are under better control too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> No, I wouldn't be interested in having a dog that drooled either. Blech. There are a few breeds that I am not sure what the attraction is - basset hounds are one that come to mind. The neighbor has one, or did. And I guess I shouldn't say that, because I really wasn't around it enough to learn what its personality was like. Appearance-wise, however, no appeal to me at all.
> 
> Thank goodness they don't allow dogs in heat to compete; if they did, we might as well decide absolutely we are just doing this as an activity with no thought of ever competing. Karen, Augie has been neutered. He doesn't lift his leg, he doesn't mark, he doesn't hump. BUT....if there is any smell to be smelled, he is johnny-on-the-spot right there smelling. The trainer felt it was the female in heat that he was smelling, where she had sat on the floor. In our beginning obedience class, there was one night where he acted like that - it was held in a doggie day care business. He went around the room smelling every single surface - nothing visible was in site - and she thought that was probably what he was smelling there too. He is on leash when we take him out to potty. I can tell if anything has been in the yard, as he will put his nose to the ground and go nuts following the path that some animal has made - zigzagging all over the place. Are all Havs as into following scents as that? The female in heat is an Irish setter. Maybe the owner thinks it only fair that our dogs have a distraction too. There are chicken barns to one side and behind the barn where we train. This setter will get toward the back of our barn and just stops and faces the back of the barn and won't move. Will NOT turn her back end toward the back of the barn. She obviously has had quite a bit of training, because when she isn't distracted, she moves very nicely through the course.
> 
> ...


The Bassetts I've known have been great pets for people who don't want to have to do much training. They are low energy in the EXTREME. So if you want a dog that just lays around, they aren't a bad choice. My brother has a Bassett cross, and he's PERFECT for their family. I agree though, they wouldn't be my choice!<g>

I can tell you FOR SURE that not ALL Havs have good "smellers" Kodi has trouble finding food dropped on the floor. (I suspect that's part of the reason he's always "surfing"... he can tell that SOMETHING is there, but can't quite locate it) Does your training center offer nose work classes? It sounds like Augie might excel at that.

I am SO happy that we live in an area with lots of options for training. The place I go to is only 20 minutes away, but within an hour, there are at least 3 others that I know of. (and that's not counting the pet store type) For the same reason, there are lots of opportunities to compete without having to travel too far.

I WILL probably eventually get Kodi's CGC... it seems silly not to. And eventually it would probably be fun to do therapy dog stuff with him. But his dance card is a little full right now!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> During much of the year I only drive less then 10 mins to class, in the summer I drive 45. At our training center females in heat are a no no, that is why the Clumber woman was saying Misty was in heat, she was trying to get rid of the distraction. Her dog is still an over grown puppy she is trying to show in conformation and is doing obedience also to get some control of her dog. It is not the dogs fault the owner just has no listening skills. If the owner does not listen and their dog is out of control because of it, after the class is over they can't enroll again. I have seen in the beginning class owners with Labs and shepards out of control and if after the third time they refuse to work on a prong coller, they are out. In Misty's classes until this class all of the dogs have been on prong collers except her. These dogs were way out of control and breaking free.
> 
> Where we train they do CGC testing three times a year and Therapy at the same time. They have a big program for Therapy dogs. There is also an obedience and Rally AKC trial at our center in April.


Prong collars are not allowed at our center at all. If the dog can't be controlled on a flat buckle or martingale collar or an anti-pull harness or "haltie", they are not ready for ANY class. The owners are welcome to bring them for private lessons until they can handle the more distracting setting of a class. A HUGE emphasis is put on getting and keeping your dog's attention in the beginner and "continuing education" classes. Dogs don't move out of these classes until they are pretty reliably paying attention and walking on a loose lead. Doesn't have to be perfect heeling, but they must be on a loose lead.

If a dog hasn't come up through the entire program there, you have to start with a private lesson/evaluation with the owner before being placed in a class. They are all about safety and control using positive training methods. Past the beginner and continuing ed classes, you won't see a single dog in anything but a flat buckle or martingale collar.

They also do have a "reactive dog" class, but in that class, it's a lot of working with the owners. The dogs are in crates, and taken out one at a time to work, then are slowly introduced to working with other dogs when the owner can keep good attention individually.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

There is just no way they could not let them use a prong collar, many of the dogs coming to the beginner classes are dogs that the owners have not trained from day one or they came from back yard breeders and their just uncontrolable lots of labs, goldens, and shepards and boarder collies. I have never seen any of these people advance to higher classes. We have had some Pit bulls because you need to have your CGC if you live on Fort Bragg and you have one. The owners come in on a buckle or a choke chain, choke chains are not allowed. To advance to formal obedience you have to be accepted, not many get accepted and I was told its more if they see you are working at home as well as class with your dogs. It is a training club, so it is a bit different. My trainer likes the fact that Yogi is her first Havanese and is a rescue. In the class after mine there are two Lowchens after you get past the hair cut, they look a lot like Hav's, their Hair feels different, our dogs all have somewhat different hair so maybe I just haven't felt one with the same hair.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

We can only use buckle collars or Martingales in our classes too. I think someone was allowed to use a harness of some sort, but no prong collars or choke chains. I don't know if our trainer works with the dogs that would would need those kinds of collars on a private basis or not - I imagine she does. Or I think that maybe a lot of people just don't train their dogs (the ones that would really benefit from training) as we don't have a military base (or anything else) in our area that requires training that I know of.

I really liked our Level II Obedience/CGC class. We worked a lot on greeting people and having our dogs sit nicely, milling around other people, walking past others with their dogs, our dogs being handled by the other humans, long sits and down stays, etc. It was so amazing the difference between the first night of class (pretty chaotic) and the last night - the progress that was made. Mostly big dogs - a great dane that started out as a handful and a lab who was also a handful. The great dane would be driven up to class in the back of a pickup truck. We would be waiting in the parking lot and that truck would drive up with that huge dog, and I could hear Augie's low growl in his throat. But by the end of the session, all was good and he was no longer nervous around the great dane. There was also a labradoodle - actually two of them - one huge, but a teddy bear of a dog, and the other was small but yippy and hyper.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> There is just no way they could not let them use a prong collar, many of the dogs coming to the beginner classes are dogs that the owners have not trained from day one or they came from back yard breeders and their just uncontrolable lots of labs, goldens, and shepards and boarder collies. I have never seen any of these people advance to higher classes. We have had some Pit bulls because you need to have your CGC if you live on Fort Bragg and you have one. The owners come in on a buckle or a choke chain, choke chains are not allowed. To advance to formal obedience you have to be accepted, not many get accepted and I was told its more if they see you are working at home as well as class with your dogs. It is a training club, so it is a bit different. My trainer likes the fact that Yogi is her first Havanese and is a rescue. In the class after mine there are two Lowchens after you get past the hair cut, they look a lot like Hav's, their Hair feels different, our dogs all have somewhat different hair so maybe I just haven't felt one with the same hair.


The problem is that prong collars just irritate, and in many cases, make a reactive dog MORE reactive. It's too bad that they take these dogs (in classes) at all. The dogs would be much better off with private lessons and positive training methods.

It's good to hear that even in that environment, you've been able to make such good progress with your two. No wonder Misty gets intimidated, though!


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Hehe Misty only has got intimidated with the clumber and the CGC is only buckle coller. They do not use the prong on reactive dogs (I think Yogi is the only reactive dog) or shy dogs and the trainers fit them, they want them right not hurting the dogs, these are dogs on the line of "Marly" knocking people over and the owners never addressed it, and usually have no clue. There are lots of country areas here, some of these people know no better, so the fact that they are even bringing them is big. Many of these people could not afford private lessons, all of the methods are postive and even with the collers they show them how, they are to be used. They look bad but they are nothing like a choke coller.

The classes Yogi is in now mosty everyone has a titled dog or two. So the dogs in his class are soooo well behaved, he is the demon!!! Sometimes he's fine and every once in awhile I spend my whole time trying to get him to focus. Sometimes she works him to show me what he can do, he's sooo much better with her!!!!


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