# Please Help!



## hparadise (Jun 30, 2013)

Hi,
I'm hoping to get some answers, advice from some of you all that have been Havanese owners for a while or have had a similar experience.

I purchased my pup on June 1, 2013 and I felt like I did my homework but now I'm really doubting myself!! When I got my pup home I noticed she was itching herself very bad and I became concerned. This went on for a day or so and I contacted the breeder and she told me that a flea could have gotten on her. Well after a couple of days it got worse and I took her to the Vet and learned she had a bacteria infection!!!!! I was very upset and contacted the breeder and she acted like she was in shock of this news. I asked that she pay my Vet bill & she did. My pup was put on an antibiotic for two weeks twice a day and Benadryl every 8 - 10!hours. I noticed after a week she was not getting better & she was itching worse - called the vet & they said to give medicine full two weeks. I have done that my baby is still itching!! The vet did a fungal test it came back negative so now the vet thinks pup has allergies & she told me to switch her food to Royal Canin hypoallergenic dog food for 6 weeks to see if this will help with itching. If this doesn't help more testing to be done!! Friday we went in for 16 week shots and the vet see's how miserable my baby is scratching so she thinks it may be yeast - suggested I do another antibiotic for a week. On top of this she found an infection in her ear which may look like allergies. I'm very upset about all of this.... when I leave the Vet I contact the breeder - her response was I could exchange her for a "non itchy dog". I was very offended bc this pup has been with me for a month & I'm attached to her and I just can't "exchange her" as if she was a piece of clothing. I feel at this point the breeder needs to refund my money bc it seems I don't have a healthy pup!! So upset - Does anyone have advice or similar experience?


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I'm sorry you are going through this but just because your dog has allergies does not necessarily mean the breeder is a bad one. I feel you are over reacting a bit.

Maybe this is a reaction to frontline or vaccines??? My dogs got very itchy after I put K-9 advantix on them. No medicine helped. It took 6 weeks until the stuff was out of their system to stop the itching. Food could also be it and maybe chemicals on your grass....

I hope you get to the bottom of this!

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but I had a pup who had a liver shunt, another with cherry eye, and yet another with luxating patellas. So an itchy dog doesn't mean you should get your money back. My boy with the bad knees and the one with cherry eye came from good breeders so stuff does happen...


----------



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm so sorry you are going through all of this, BUT I agree that it isn't exactly your breeders "fault" your dog is itchy AND from what you ahve said, it seems she is doing more than most breeders would, with helping to pay bills and offering an "exchange" the reality is, you HAVE only had her for a month. So, if this is something that is overwhelming for you to deal with, maybe you should give her offer a second thought.
My hav had sores all over her head and chest when she was about 9 months old. Never even crossed my mind to contact her breeder. She had extensive testing done, was put on antibiotics, and had a full allergy panel done. She has a boat load of food allergies. Chicken, turkey, carrots, apples, seafood, potatoes. you name it, she is probably allergic to it. While concerning at first, we have learned how to deal with it and get her healthy and keep her that way. But it did take awhile and a lot of perseverance...
wish I could help more, but it really sounds like your breeder is trying to help you as best she can... so you should be very thankful for that.


----------



## hparadise (Jun 30, 2013)

Gosh I disagree with both of you!!! I found some very negative information on this breeder yesterday so that's what prompted me to reach out to some of you.


----------



## BearsMom (Jul 16, 2012)

Hi,
I understand that you are attached to your pup. I also became very attached to Bear very quickly. I think that you may need to make your mind up one way or another though. Give it a lot of thought so you can make peace with your decision but you need to decide that you will either stand by this pup and take care of her medical needs or "exchange" her. It's a shame that you found this information out about the breeder after you got her.....but what's done is done. I do think that the breeder offering to help pay was nice....at least it offset some of the initial bills.


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Sorry, I think you've gotten some good feedback and alternative perspective regarding your situation. A top notch breeder can occasionally produce an unhealthy dog, and a backyard breeder can produce (much more by chance than careful planning) healthy dogs. It's just the nature of breeding, despite everything a breeder can do, they don't have 100% control of the outcomes, only nature does. I have seen people swear up and down that their dog from such and such questionable breeder was healthy and happy. Just because a dog is healthy or not doesn't necessarily correlate with the quality of the breeder, only that the chances of health or sickness relates to the breeder. I also think your breeder is doing more than many would, consider yourself lucky that you got a response, let alone that she paid the vet bill. Sorry it turns out you came across some bad stuff on your breeder, but there are unreasonable people that post bad reviews on people, when some times there is more to the story. And in my opinion, it is a reasonable and standard thing for the breeder to offer to exchange the dog. Your dog is still alive, and unless your immediate vet bills are as much or more than the cost of your dog, I don't think she should have to refund the full purchase price as it is not equal.


----------



## hparadise (Jun 30, 2013)

I'm curious atsilvers27 - how much did you pay for your havanese??


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm not going to say how much exactly, but I bought her with full registration and pick of litter. I've also had to spend money for the plain ticket to fly down to FL to pick her up, and for classes to train her for showing. I also didn't know as much back then about her breeder, genetics, her pedigree and conformation as I do now, I later found out about her high breeding coefficient and, although she is very beautiful, she is shy/leash aggressive around dogs (making her very difficult for me as a novice to show) and she has some minor show conformation faults that I did not expect her to have considering how much I paid for her and her pedigree. I have learned to let myself learn from whatever happens and move forward with life.


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Dogs with full registration and top pedigrees typically go for $2000+. On a spay/neuter contract the average seems to be $1500-$2000, but as for anything, depending on local economy and competition prices can be less than or more than the average.


----------



## hparadise (Jun 30, 2013)

Thank you I was just curious. On my paper work my pups Father AKC number was on there but Mother's was not. Is that typical or normal?


----------



## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

hparadise said:


> Thank you I was just curious. On my paper work my pups Father AKC number was on there but Mother's was not. Is that typical or noexistenceOTE]
> 
> Not sure what you have in front you but if it's anything official from AKC will have both parents registration #s - that is the whole point of their existance. Maybe you can post a pic of the doc here, more pair of eyes better than one, maybe you're just missing it.


----------



## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

I have a 1/2 hav (intentionally), and he's always been itchy. nothing as bad as you are talking about. You should take your pup to a dermatologist. yup, vet dermatologist. does she have any skin irritation showing? b/c that is helpful and I have met with a dermatologist and they said they need to see the 'rash' or whatever it is manifest, then they run the test on that.

Your vet should have a recommendation for a dermatologist. your vet, no offense is guessing. you deserve better.

yrs ago, I had a cat, with a really gross skin thing. it basically looked like an open mold sore, but all over her body. yup, totally icky.

the general vet had no clue, they gave me 4 different meds, to hit it at all sides, while it helped, I didn't know what had worked... but I took my cat to a cat specialist and he knew exactly what it was, fixed it right up.

hope that helps.


----------



## Ewokpup (Nov 3, 2012)

Do you live in another part of the state or country than the breeder? If so, maybe your pup has allergies that are specific for your region. 
Bear had skin problems due to allergies when he was being fostered in Texas. Since moving to Los Angeles, he hasn't needed medicated shampoo anymore (knock on wood). We still avoid the foods his foster mom said he was sensitive to, but as far as the leaves and trees and grass, California seems to suit him better than Texas. Of course that could change with the season....

I agree with the person who suggested a vet dermatologist.


----------



## hparadise (Jun 30, 2013)

No I don't Ewokpup. We live in the same town. I agree with sprorchid!! The vet said to give the food 6 weeks & if that didn't work we would have to go back to drawing board  feel so bad for my pup!


----------



## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

I agree with the others - see a specialist and/or a holistic vet. Also try bathing your puppy with an oatmeal shampoo and rinsing with apple cider vinegar. 

I'm not a huge fan of antibiotics - am sure they are necessary and helpful in some cases but when they dont work, more isnt usually the solution. My lab developed a bad rash and conventional vet offered antibiotics, before I tried that used coconut oil first and it cleared up.


----------



## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Also, try a consult with a homeopathic veterinarian. It has been my experience that homeopathy often works very well in cases such as this. Rashes, itchiness, etc. that Western medicine veterinarians want to throw steroids and antibiotics at without being certain of the cause.


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

hparadise said:


> No I don't Ewokpup. We live in the same town. I agree with sprorchid!! The vet said to give the food 6 weeks & if that didn't work we would have to go back to drawing board  feel so bad for my pup!


 My Maddie was very itchy as a puppy.Our vet said a food allergy would be the last thing he would suspect because it rare. Mites can take several scrapings to show on their scope . So instead of saying no she doesn't have mites he treated for it. She still itched. He finally recommended a dermatologist but right before the appointment she cleared up.
I think her itching was from chemicals in her system. She itched her ear at the breeders and he said I'll treat her for ear mites before she comes home. Then we put frontline on her. She itched and had dry flaky skin. Then our vet put more chemical on her for mites.
I hadn't used any flea treatment for over a year and a half after all that. I moved into an apartment that had a previous dog and both mine got fleas.I treated again with frontline and Maddie started itching.Not as bad as when she was a puppy but it lasted about two weeks and her skin got dry and flakey. I used a non soap shampoo to help clear it up. Its an oatmeal base. I also use ACV now to control fleas.
As for your Breeder not refunding your money I agree with everyone else. But I think if it is an allergy he or she should pay for the specialist. They cost more than a regular vet.


----------



## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

Yeah, my little guy has dry skin and senstive skin. frontline plus is too harsh for his tender skin and broke out in a rash last week, where I applied it. so I need to figure out another flea fix.

There's a great topical prescription powder, Neo-predef (neo - pred (like predator)-def (like deaf), and it's a 3-1 powder, has a steroid to bolster the skin, topical antibotic to keep an infection at bay and lidocaine to numb it so the dog doesn't feel the itch so the dog stops scratching and licking it. it's like $25 for a small bottle but you only need a puff or two on where the skin is inflamed. I used it on where Ollie broke on in a rash from the frontline plus last week, just treated it twice (every 12 hours) and that's all it needed to heal up. it's a clean scab now.


I also am a fan of holistic medicine but I'd get a diagnosis first of what's going on, before throwing meds or herbs at it. also holistic vets (and even acupuncture) and be very expensive, but everything to do with dogs is $$$$.


----------



## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

hparadise said:


> No I don't Ewokpup. We live in the same town. I agree with sprorchid!! The vet said to give the food 6 weeks & if that didn't work we would have to go back to drawing board  feel so bad for my pup!


I read this thread again and I agree with sporchild - it does sound like your vet is guessing a bit. You might want to get the pup off all the drugs - and hold off on vacs until you get this under control.


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

SJ1998 said:


> I read this thread again and I agree with sporchild - it does sound like your vet is guessing a bit. You might want to get the pup off all the drugs - and hold off on vacs until you get this under control.


I agree. Hold off on the vaccines until you get this under control. What are you using for flea and tick prevention and when was it last applied?

You might try the raw diet. Primal makes a good one. What ever protein source your old food was, change that. So if you were feeding a food that was chicken based, try beef or something else. Also, if you don't go raw, at least go grain free. Good luck!!


----------



## RitaandRiley (Feb 27, 2012)

This is an interesting article about allergies

http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20130701


----------



## hparadise (Jun 30, 2013)

RITA - Thank you so much for posting article about allergies. My pup has all those symptoms!! She now has a terrible ear infection that is very painful to her. 

lfung5 she has all her vacs now but thanks for the suggestion of raw diet or grain free. She is eating Royal Canin hypoallergenic.


----------



## hparadise (Jun 30, 2013)

Also lfung5 you had asked about what I use for flea protection. The vet recommended Trifexis last month but since we are having all the itching issues she has suggested that I give her revolution. Trifexis was given on 6-4, not sure sure about revolution since that goes on her skin.


----------



## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

lfung5 said:


> I agree. Hold off on the vaccines until you get this under control. What are you using for flea and tick prevention and when was it last applied?
> 
> You might try the raw diet. Primal makes a good one. What ever protein source your old food was, change that. So if you were feeding a food that was chicken based, try beef or something else. Also, if you don't go raw, at least go grain free. Good luck!!


My dogs like the Primal also. In fact I just ordered some online from wag - usually I buy it locally but I noticed they had it and I had a $10 coupon plus free ship if you spend enough (not hard to do with two dogs).


----------



## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

hparadise said:


> RITA - Thank you so much for posting article about allergies. My pup has all those symptoms!! She now has a terrible ear infection that is very painful to her.
> 
> lfung5 she has all her vacs now but thanks for the suggestion of raw diet or grain free. She is eating Royal Canin hypoallergenic.


Has she had rabies vaccine already?


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I believe the trifecix has the same ingredient as advantix. If so, maybe try frontline. The stuff in advantix is so harsh and caused severe reactions in my guys. My vet doesn't even recommend it.


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

hparadise said:


> Also lfung5 you had asked about what I use for flea protection. The vet recommended Trifexis last month but since we are having all the itching issues she has suggested that I give her revolution. Trifexis was given on 6-4, not sure sure about revolution since that goes on her skin.


 There are a lot of dogs that have really bad side effects from the Trifexis. Look it up on the internet. Did the itching start after that medication? My sisters dog has liver problems from that product. Some have had seizures and back legs going out. If you have to use a heartworm medication I think the new protocol is
different as to the time between doses. I don't have to use it here in Oregon so I'm not sure.


----------



## hparadise (Jun 30, 2013)

Okay so I'm glad she is off the Trifexis that is so scary!!! No the itching started before the Trifexis. Is the revolution bad?


----------



## hparadise (Jun 30, 2013)

SJ1998 - Yes she had her rabies vaccine last Friday.

Also just curious what grain free food do you recommend?


----------



## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

hparadise said:


> SJ1998 - Yes she had her rabies vaccine last Friday.
> 
> Also just curious what grain free food do you recommend?


Currently feed Fromm Grain-free - there are several protein varieties. My dogs get them on a rotated basis and handle all of them well. We fed Taste of the Wild when we first switched to grain-free but did not like the way Diamond Pet Foods handled the most recent recall so went in search of another food. There are other good ones out there. We tried Orijen but my JR/Corgi mix did not tolerate it well so Fromm is the one we have settled on and all 4 of our dogs are doing well on it.


----------



## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

ziwipeak is wheat free, I think grain free, but you can check. My dogs loved it but it's pricey and I have 250+ lbs of dog to feed, so I'm back to kibble.

http://www.ziwipeak.com/


----------



## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

hparadise said:


> Okay so I'm glad she is off the Trifexis that is so scary!!! No the itching started before the Trifexis. Is the revolution bad?


Revolution saved Roki from flea bite allergy. It also kill some mites, intestinal parasites and heartworms. Flea bite allergy can be SOOO bad! Even one flea can make dog itchy and miserable. They are fast and difficult to catch. Just put her on white bedsheet and comb her out. If you see something like black powder on her skin, she has fleas (it's flea poop). I would recomend Revolution because it destroys flea population in all stages. After two rounds of Revolution our vet was 99 percent sure he has flea allergy dermatitis. 
Roki is extremely allergic to Advantix (itching), but Revolution is OK.


----------

