# Rare Bone disorder



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

We finally found out that Maddie has a rare bone disorder. I have been trying to look up on the internet to see if there is a name for it. We took her to one of the top elbow specialist here in the portland area and he said in his whole carrier he has only seen two other dogs with her problem. 
The Bone on the left called the Radius is not attached at all to the Humerus it is on the out side of it. he said as pups developed their bones They fuse together and attach to the Humerus at about age 4 to 6 weeks. And that it is a genetic disorder . 
I was wondering if anyone knows of any other dogs with this same problem? He said the two he treated have lost contact with him so he really doe not know what the out come is. He talked a lot about pain management with pills. And even amputation Gulp 
I have included a picture of the three bones it is the one on the left . Maddies is growing on the outside of the Humerus. I asked him what if it grows more and he said by 7mo she has stoped growing he said unless havanese are different than other small breeds .*Please let me know if he is wrong about that.*


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Suzy, I am so sorry to hear about little Mattie. Hugs


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm so sad to hear this. I would definitely try to get more information about it. The vet didn't give you a name for the disorder?


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Thanks Robie, I really don't know what to do she loves running. We are thinking to let her run but only on a soft flat surface.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

pjewel said:


> I'm so sad to hear this. I would definitely try to get more information about it. The vet didn't give you a name for the disorder?


 No he didn't. The only thing I can find on the internet is Elbow Displacia And their is three differant things that can go wrong, but their is nothing I can find about her condition .


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

Oh I feel just horrible. She is such a sweet little thing.


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## dbeech (Jun 16, 2009)

Suzi said:


> No he didn't. The only thing I can find on the internet is Elbow Displacia And their is three differant things that can go wrong, but their is nothing I can find about her condition .


One of my parent's labs had elbow dysplasia. I think it is typically a large breed condition. Their dog was treated with arthroscopic surgery (not a major surgery at all) and did really well for many years. Hopefully, this is all it is. It is so hard to think about our babies having to live with a painful condition.

Good luck!!


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Suzi, I'm so sorry to hear about this condition. I know how much Maddie loves to run and jump! Did you ask him if there is any type of surgical procedure that could at least help? It would help to research more if he had given you a name for it. I think I would call back to the office and ask. Surely, there has to be a name for it. I know when I am shocked by something I sometimes don't always hear everything they say after that! Please keep us informed. I will be praying for you and little Maddie.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

dbeech said:


> One of my parent's labs had elbow dysplasia. I think it is typically a large breed condition. Their dog was treated with arthroscopic surgery (not a major surgery at all) and did really well for many years. Hopefully, this is all it is. It is so hard to think about our babies having to live with a painful condition.
> 
> Good luck!!


 He didn't think surgery would help her. With the exception of latter in life fusing the elbow or amputation for pain management. She is already compensating and favoring her left leg because it has more muscle. The left elbow is not very good either.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Well here's a thing, our eldest son use to get pains in his legs when he was a child, anyway the doctor took xrays and he to had missing bones on one side of each knee, there wasn't much to be done about them other than to keep an eye on how he grew. Well he grew big and strong and was/is a good athlete and has had no problems.We were told sport was good as it strengthened the muscles on each side of his knees therefore keeping the knee caps in place.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

oh NO, I am so sorry to hear this Suzi.  But know that YOU are the person maddie was meant to be with because you LOVE her and are taking care of her the best you can!


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Suzi,
I am so sorry to hear about Maddie! I don't know anything about this condition. I hope it's an easy fix.


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## CarolZ (Aug 12, 2010)

Suzi--so sorry to hear about Maddie. Know how hard it is to have our puppy kids have any 
problems. I agree with the other posters and would ask the vet consultant you saw for
a written diagnosis. Sending you and your girls Hugs & Doggie Kisses from Julie.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

clare said:


> Well here's a thing, our eldest son use to get pains in his legs when he was a child, anyway the doctor took xrays and he to had missing bones on one side of each knee, there wasn't much to be done about them other than to keep an eye on how he grew. Well he grew big and strong and was/is a good athlete and has had no problems.We were told sport was good as it strengthened the muscles on each side of his knees therefore keeping the knee caps in place.


 That is cool he does so good. Well all we can do is wait and see. I will let her run and play just not hard impacts . I like the idea of building muscles


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## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

Suzi, I'm so sorry to hear this. Does she act like she's in pain? I don't remember hearing that she is.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

SOPHIES-MOM said:


> Suzi, I'm so sorry to hear this. Does she act like she's in pain? I don't remember hearing that she is.


 About three weeks ago she was in a lot of pain and would not walk on her right leg. I remember a long time ago she seemed sore also. She wakes up from naps a bit stiff but shakes it off . Her right foot has always been turned out. 
I think it is called dislocation of the Radius bone and I did find one article today I think it has to do with abnormal growth. The orthopedic DR is sending us his report. Most of the time you would not even expect anything is wrong. Although the doctor could tell she hurts . And sent us home with pain killers. just in case she acts sore.


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## Ninja (Nov 1, 2010)

Oh no Suzi I am so sorry to hear about Maddie's problem. I hope your able to find more information on it. I was told they stop growing at 6 months but Ninja stopped between 7 and 8 months.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi Suzi,

I found a couple of articles I thought might interest you:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1555675/

http://agilitynet.co.uk/health/elbowdysplasia_petervandongen.html


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Suzi, did you call your breeder about this? She needs to know if it is a genetic disorder.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> Hi Suzi,
> 
> I found a couple of articles I thought might interest you:
> 
> ...


 Thank you Karen! I copied this portion of the disorders it is a hard read form me but my HD thinks alot of this relates to what Maddie has.

Complete traumatic disruption of the elbow joint usually results in the radius and ulna being displaced laterally to the humerus (lateral luxation) (Fig. 23-7).(9) This occurs because the medial condyle of the distal humerus is larger, preventing the radius and ulna from moving medially. The clinical picture is that of complete instability of the joint with deformity. The animal holds the leg in abduction with external rotation. The level of pain evidenced by the animal is quite variable but seems to diminish with time. Palpation of the limb reveals a large prominent medial condyle with loss of normal features on the lateral aspect. Radiographs in two views prove the diagnosis and may rule in or out additional fractures.

FIG. 23-7 Lateral (A) and cranial-caudal (B) views of a lateral luxation of the elbow joint.

CLOSED REDUCTION
Reduction of a dislocated elbow may be difficult. Knowledge of the normal bony anatomy is necessary to reestablish an intact joint. Closed manipulation will often lead to successful reduction if swelling is not too severe.
Prolonged manipulation is not beneficial to the patient's joint, and open reduction should be considered if closed manipulation is not successful in a short time. To accomplish a closed reduction of a lateral luxation of the elbow joint, the joint is flexed to 90deg and the anconeal process is rotated medially (internal rotation of the radius and ulna) to interdigitate into the supratrochlear foramen. The leg is gradually extended with a lateral to medial force applied to the radial head while a medial to lateral force is applied to the medial condyle of the humerus. Simultaneously with these medial and lateral forces and gradual extension of the limb, the radius and ulna are internally rotated after hooking the beak of the anconeal process into the trochlear groove to snap the joint back into position. If successful in reduction, the joint should be carried through a full range of motion. If completely stable at this time, a soft bulky bandage can be applied to the elbow joint to ensure continued extension. If unstable in flexion, the joint should be immobilized in a Schroeder-Thomas splint in extension for 10 to 14 days. Occasionally the joint will be completely unstable, requiring open reduction with soft tissue reconstruction.

OPEN REDUCTION
Open reduction of elbow luxations is usually carried out through a lateral incision through the anconeus muscle. Following debridement of the joint, reduction is carried out via the method described for closed reduction. A bone elevator may be used carefully within the joint surface if necessary. Rarely open reduction is not successful through this approach. To obtain reduction, the lateral approach is combined with proximal ulnar diaphyseal osteotomy, which allows the luxation to be reduced easily. Special attention to closure of the soft tissues will result in good stability of the joint. Postoperative immobilization, usually in extension, is necessary for 10 to 14 days.

CONGENITAL AND DEVELOPMENTAL DISLOCATION OF THE ELBOW
Congenital luxation of the elbow usually occurs in the smaller breeds of dogs. The dislocation may occur as a complete luxation, as is seen with traumatic luxation, or may be found with luxation of the radial head with an intact ulnar articulation or with ulnar subluxation. Congenital dislocation can also be seen with an intact radial humeral articulation with subluxation or dislocation of the ulna. The ulnar subluxation in these cases has only a rotatory component that is the cause of the dislocation.

Congenital luxation of the elbow in the dog is reported to be associated with aplasia or hypoplasia of the medial collateral ligament as well as a functionally annular ligament.(1) It has been suggested but not proven that this condition is heritable.

The treatment of these problems is often based on the general wellbeing of the animal and on expectatation for reasonable function of the involved limb.(2,5) Often the anatomical bony structures are changed in such a way that the joints are incongruent when reduced. The absence of associated soft tissues may make reconstruction impossible, as is often the case with complete dislocation. Although not reported, arthrodesis might be a method that would allow functional stabilization of the elbow.

With an intact radial humeral joint, the ulna can be repositioned following proximal ulnar diaphyseal osteotomy and reduced into position. Stabilization is accomplished by attachment of the ulnar segment to the proximal radius using pins or small screws for fixation. When the radial head is luxated, appropriate treatment depends on the radiographic appearance of the proximal radius and ulna. Correction must be achieved, trying to maintain leg length. If the diaphysis of the radius is straight, proximal ulnar osteotomy is performed. If deviation occurs in the radius, only osteotomy of the proximal radius is carried out at the level of the curvature, and the radial head is repositioned properly after shortening the segment to allow it to be inserted properly. In most cases of radial head luxation, the radial head will have a spherical joint surface. This surface will not maintain proper congruency with the humeral condyles and will have to be contoured appropriately. This reshaping of the radial head will remove joint cartilage and may have a marked effect on the outcome of the procedure.

The ease with which little dogs manage to get around on three legs makes the corrective procedures uncommon, but the successes seen encourage further experience with surgical reconstruction.

Developmental dislocation may be difficult to separate from congenital dislocation except in relation to the age of onset. Animals may be of any size and develop subluxations first. If unchecked, dislocation of the elbow occurs later, usually following some form of traumatic insult to the growth physes of the proximal or distal radius and ulna.(4,7,5)

Premature arrest of ulnar growth is usually associated with lateral deformity of the forepaw but may be associated with luxation of the elbow or possible fracture of the anconeal process. In these cases, the ulna stops growing while the radius may continue to grow, actually pushing the humeral condyles out of position caudally, or the radial head may slip laterally and luxate in this manner.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Kathie said:


> Suzi, did you call your breeder about this? She needs to know if it is a genetic disorder.


 Not yet but we will. They are still mad at me for telling them they should Health test their dogs.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Also, not to excuse the breeder for poor practices, but from what I read last night, it can be very hard to tell whether these elbow problems are genetic, congenital or caused by injury, (or a combination of the above) unless you KNOW there have been more than one puppy produced with the same problem.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> Also, not to excuse the breeder for poor practices, but from what I read last night, it can be very hard to tell whether these elbow problems are genetic, congenital or caused by injury, (or a combination of the above) unless you KNOW there have been more than one puppy produced with the same problem.


 This reminds me of the same topic that came up under Prestons legs. 
My conclusion was that there needs to be more studies to deturmin how these things happen. All I can tell you is our guy who went to collage and specializes in elbows on a dog says it is genetic.
Okay environmental or genetic. 
I think what would be cool is if The willison would be willing to have Rockie And Mona studied to see why this happened.
See if the whatever gene is in their blood.


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## ttutah3 (Jan 1, 2011)

Who was your breeder? I was thinking we had the same one, but I could be wrong.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

has your vet mentioned ever swimming for Maddie? When my Kit developed tendonitis in his shoulder, the vet mentioned that we could do physical therapy in a pool. However the nearest pool was over an hour away. Riding in the car was torture for Kit. His extreme stress levels and anxious whining made riding in the car torturous for us, too.

Maybe you would be lucky and have a pool near by.  Swimming is great for them.... Havanese can swim, can they?


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Oh Suzi, I am so sorry to read this. Hopefully, the pain is only occasional and will stop once she has stopped growing. I am thinking it could be worse as her little body is still changing. 

Did you ask your doctor about joint support? I know this is different and more serious but glyco flex has really helped both my boys. But I would definitely ask the vet first as I am not sure if it would be good while she is still growing. 

Hugs to you and Maddie.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

ttutah3 said:


> Who was your breeder? I was thinking we had the same one, but I could be wrong.


 Their last name is willson from Boreing Ore. Is that the same?

I did read about swimming that would be fun!

Thanks Missy I will ask the doctor about Glyco Flex


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

morriscsps said:


> has your vet mentioned ever swimming for Maddie? When my Kit developed tendonitis in his shoulder, the vet mentioned that we could do physical therapy in a pool. However the nearest pool was over an hour away. Riding in the car was torture for Kit. His extreme stress levels and anxious whining made riding in the car torturous for us, too.
> 
> Maybe you would be lucky and have a pool near by.  Swimming is great for them.... Havanese can swim, can they?


Suzi, I'm sorry to hear about this. I hope as you learn more you can share so we can all learn.

I second the swimming - Clover swam to rehab one of his knee surgeries. It is fantastic exercise and no impact, so it builds muscle without pressuring joints. I am lucky that I have a dog beach nearby (and that he had surgery in the summer!) but it is a great option to look into.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> has your vet mentioned ever swimming for Maddie? When my Kit developed tendonitis in his shoulder, the vet mentioned that we could do physical therapy in a pool. However the nearest pool was over an hour away. Riding in the car was torture for Kit. His extreme stress levels and anxious whining made riding in the car torturous for us, too.
> 
> Maybe you would be lucky and have a pool near by.  Swimming is great for them.... Havanese can swim, can they?


Yes, Havs can swim, and it's interesting that you should mention this. One of the links I sent Suzi mentioned swimming as PT for a Dachshund who had surgery to fix a similar elbow problem


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I just found out Zoey has a under bight and I cant show her I swear I looked at her teeth so did the vet I don't get it. I guess It just was not meant to be. _ _ _ _


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

Oh Suz! I can't even believe that! I'm sooo sorry! OK, time for plan B. Do you have a plan B? Maybe you and Zoey could get involved in those other sporty things people do...Agility and what-not....


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

dodrop82 said:


> Oh Suz! I can't even believe that! I'm sooo sorry! OK, time for plan B. Do you have a plan B? Maybe you and Zoey could get involved in those other sporty things people do...Agility and what-not....


 That would be plan c  Zoey was plan B  Her under bight is so slight and her baby teeth are sooo little maybe I could get her bracesound:


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Our old and sadly departed Tibetan Terrier did in fact have a brace, it was so long ago I can't remember the reason why he had dentistry work, it was whilst he was a puppy, and it worked well.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

One of my Mom's cockers has really crooked lower teeth in front. She has always joked about getting him braces...perhaps a retainer...


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

dodrop82 said:


> One of my Mom's cockers has really crooked lower teeth in front. She has always joked about getting him braces...perhaps a retainer...


 Maybe I could teach her how to suck her Paw ound:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

clare said:


> Our old and sadly departed Tibetan Terrier did in fact have a brace, it was so long ago I can't remember the reason why he had dentistry work, it was whilst he was a puppy, and it worked well.


 That's interesting.


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

Sorry about Zoey, too. Even if you fixed her teeth to show, you can't fix her genetics to breed her. That's a big advantage of buying from a breeder who actively shows their dogs, they can pick out things like that at any early age.

The good news is Zoey is otherwise healthy! Clover also is undershot - he looks like he is smiling in pictures.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

Yeah! Or, how bout give her a pacifier!


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

When I got Yogi as you know he was a rescue and we thought he was maybe part Lhasa, after we took him to two breeders one a Lowchen and the other a Havanese and it became clear he was most probably a Havanese, we ended up taking him to two specialists one for his eyes, he seemed clumsy so we thought he might have an eye problem his eyes are fine the specialist told us sometimes dogs that are crated for hours on end as a puppy are often clumsey until they have learned to use their legs. There is no way we will ever know. We also took him to a doggy dentist because our reg vet and the vet for the rescue thought he might need some teeth pulled. The dentist told us if it were him and Yogi was purely a pet he would not, however the bite would probably be off, but it should not effect him. He also said if we were showing he could pull some and use a spacer to see if he could tweak the bite, he also said it is not really all that ethical even though so many people do it and there is no guarantee!! I could not imagine!!!! Today Yogi's teeth are out of line it is very visaible if you pull up his lip it does not effect him in anyway. My girl has a very even bite and even though she is older then Yogi and had two litters her teeth are much whiter and very evenly spaced. Misty came from a good breeder and besides her parents, she also has had all health testing. Good breeding makes a difference and I prey that the good Havanese breeders will try their best to keep our breed out of the hands of unethical breeders that want only to pander to the wave of popularity that our breed has achieved, by breeding and providing a steady stream of unhealth tested "pet quality" cute dogs to provide the masses with instant gratification.


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## holt24 (Jan 21, 2011)

Robbie, that is veryinteresting about Yogi- when we rescued Vana we thought maybe the same thing- lhasa? but as I have been researching I have come to the same conclusion- she has to have som Hav in her..I found a dna test that list havanese as one of the breeds- I might check it out.

Suzi- hope your Babies are happy and loved regardless of their flaws- praying for no pain for Maddie!


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