# UC Davis Havanese genetic diversity resource for breeders...



## smemft (Feb 22, 2017)

I came across this while doing some Havanese research and just wanted to share it since it appears as if it might be a helpful resource specifically for Havanese breeders:

https://www.facebook.com/HavaneseDiversityProject/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

smemft said:


> I came across this while doing some Havanese research and just wanted to share it since it appears as if it might be a helpful resource specifically for Havanese breeders:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/HavaneseDiversityProject/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


Yup. I don't think you'll find many good breeders who aren't aware, and more and more are getting involved all the time. 

The nice thing is that our breed is showing some nice genetic diversity... which is not true of a number of other breeds. We have to work to maintain that, though.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Sonrisas Havanese ..."Autoimmune problems seem to be the biggest health issue in the Havanese, which is perfectly understandable considering that there were so few dogs used to rebuild the breed. Lack of genetic diversity increases the chance of autoimmune problems in any mammal and especially in dogs. "


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Sonrisas Havanese ..."Autoimmune problems seem to be the biggest health issue in the Havanese, which is perfectly understandable considering that there were so few dogs used to rebuild the breed. Lack of genetic diversity increases the chance of autoimmune problems in any mammal and especially in dogs. "


I agree that autoimmune problems are a big problem in the breed... possibly the biggest, though crooked fronts and bad patellas a re right up there too. (and autoimmune problems are on the rise in all breeds and mixed breeds, which means there is something other than JUST genetics involved) However, the UC Davis study is not showing that we have an excessively small gene pool... probably because our "foundation stock" was not all purebreds. Dorothy Goodale collected them based on phenotype, not with any for-sure pedigrees on a number of the dogs. Plus the addition of some eastern European blood that was probably not purebred, infant it is strongly suspected that some weren't Havanese at all. ...Add to that that the Havanese being added to the gene pool from Cuba are, genetically, not closely related to the "American Havanese at all, and as long as people are careful, we have a lot of genetic material to work with.

What the UC Davis study is showing, however, is that we ALSO can't tell for sure how closely related two dogs are in terms of their genetics, based on how closely related they are by pedigree. Two full siblings can have remarkably different genetics due to the genetic "roll of the dice" inherited from each parent, while two dogs who would appear, based on pedigree, to be a pretty good outcross, could have more genes in common than you would expect. The information coming out of UC Davis shouldn't be used as the ONLY way to determine whether a certain breeding makes sense, but it is certainly a useful data point to help breeders make sound decisions.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeeh Rita at Sonrisas is active in promoting this study. It's definitely worthwhile.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> yeeh Rita at Sonrisas is active in promoting this study. It's definitely worthwhile.


A lot of good breeders are getting behind it. The more people are involved, the better we will understand our gene pool.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yes , for sure. 

study... ". The fact that the IR and IRVD curves are very similar to each other indicates that Havanese still retain a great deal of the genetic diversity present in ancestral village dogs. Nevertheless, there are still a number of mildly to extremely inbred dogs in the population."


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

ICB has an interesting tool for breeders as well ICB Breeder Tool - The Institute of Canine Biology


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## smemft (Feb 22, 2017)

*Quid pro quo...*



krandall said:


> Yup. I don't think you'll find many good breeders who aren't aware....


- - -

I figured as much but just in case wanted to post anyway. I have an innate sense of equity and feel compelled to try to give something back to the forum since I have received such a benefit from the resources and information available from those that kindly take the time to post and help others here.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> yes , for sure.
> 
> study... ". The fact that the IR and IRVD curves are very similar to each other indicates that Havanese still retain a great deal of the genetic diversity present in ancestral village dogs. Nevertheless, there are still a number of mildly to extremely inbred dogs in the population."


Absolutely. Whenever you have breeders who do extensive line breeding to "fix" certain"desireable" traits you also take the chance of concentrating undesirable traits. We certainly have seen that in other breeds and other species. When chicken farmers focussed solely on producing chickens with bigger breasts, they ended up with birds where the roosters were so aggrssive that they could not be kept with the hens without killing them. That was sort of a dead-end breeding plan, pun intended.


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## havix2!! (Apr 23, 2018)

I just lost a 10 year old to osteosarcoma only 2 months after she was diagnosed and my second dog age 11 has hemangiosarcoma which we have treated with 2 surgeries. She is back on chemo again, hoping to forestall the inevitable from this always fatal cancer.
We would like to get another 2 Havanese females but are hesitant given the heartbreak we have had. We appreciate Havanese are not prone to cancer. 

Would testing for genetic diversity help minimize the likelihood that our new family are not bred to closely related parents?

We all know how wonderful Havis are and we would like two more when the time comes. We have had 2 other pairs of dogs - 2 Westies, 1 Lhasa and 1 poodle terrier mix -who all were 
healthy and lived long lives -but we would like havis.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Boy, I certainly feel for you! Two devastating cancers that are not at all common in Havanese, and you got them both. I am so sorry. I think all you can possibly do is talk to potential breeders and ask if they know of any incidents of these cancers in their lines. But I don't think it is likely, because neither one is common. 

My preference is always for dogs who are not TOO closely bred. So it always with discussing that with your breeder too. But "testing" for genetic diversity is not an exact science at this point. (partly because there are not enough dogs in the data base for it to be totally accurate) It is a tool to help breeders make good decisions, but should not be the ONLY data point on which decisions are made.

Unfortunately, there are no guarantees with biological entities. I WISH there was a way to ALWAYS guarantee that every puppy would be healthy. Breeders do too, I'm sure. But unfortunately, there isn't. I am REALLY sorry that the dice rolled the wrong way for you, twice in a row. Did both your Havis come from the same breeder? If so, have you discussed this with him or her?


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## havix2!! (Apr 23, 2018)

I did let the breeder know about the one who died; I can’t reach the other breeder - she is no longer at the address and number I have. Estie’s parent are old now and in good health.

Perhaps an environmental toxin caused this to happen but I have no idea which of the many possibilities (lawn fertilizer, ant bait, bug repellent, do on). My husband and I are healthy as are my adult kids but cancer from environmental toxins may take longer to appear in people than in dogs whose life spans are so much shorter. I will probably never know. I try to enjoy every day with my one havi while always aware that we are on borrowed time.

Thank you for responding.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Know that we are all here for you.


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