# Pricing question



## monkeytam (May 7, 2007)

Why do havanese cost so much? I know there are reasons for it like vet cost and other things that the breeder must pay for, but really is it that expensive to have a litter of puppies? I have done tons of reading and would love to have a havanese but $1500-$2000 per dog? At that cost we will never get a dog, not any breed. I don't work, never have honestly. My husband is the only one who works, plus we have 3 kids to provide for then our other bills. We both are a bit discouraged about the prices, that I have seen in the Atlanta area, where we live. It is heartbreaking to me to read alot of nice things and then see the prices! I am sure it is not a nice thing for my husband to have to do, keep saying no to me. I am 27 years old and I have wanted a dog of my own since I was about 6 or 7 years old. I asked every stinking year in my letter to santa to please bring me a dog. I didn't even care if it wasn't at christmas! I was hoping to get one for christmas this year or after the first of the year, but nope. I am now looking into cheaper dogs. Sorry if I offended anyone, for going on and on and for not understanding....

Alicia


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Alicia, I have to say that if you can't afford a Havanese then the best thing to do will be to get a rescue. I would think that's your best choice. In addition, it's expensive just to have a dog. In the 3-4 months that I have had Kubrick, I have spent at the very least $2500 on him on top of what I spent to get him. Vet bills, beds, pee pads, leashes, toys, food, shampoo, grooming supplies (and that's because I do his grooming on my own - if you want someone else to do it it's a lot more expensive). It gets EXPENSIVE! I'm not trying to be mean, but if you can't afford a high maintenance dog, then you should look into another breed. Perhaps others here have a different opinion, but that's just what I think.

Also, it really is very expensive to keep a litter of puppies. You are not only caring for the puppies themselves, but also for the mother of the puppies. Yes there are breeders out there that use the large amount of that money for themselves but if you get a good ethical breeder, a lot of that money goes into socializing and properly caring for the pups. The time that it takes is also valuable... anyone who has gotten a puppy can tell you the amount of time and patience that it takes to raise them. I can't even imagine having a whole litter in your hands and dealing with potty training and all of that at such a young age.

I'm sure others here have better reasons, but that's how I see it.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Alicia, I certainly understand your issues - and I dont think you are offending anyone, I agree it is a costly venture, but I can say that I would imagine (as I am not a breeder) that between the costs of medical testing for the parents, fees to be registered, the possible need for vet intervention at delivery, the pee pee pads, food, initial vet bills and vaccinations and dewormings of the ENTIRE litter. That a breeder doesnt walk away with a whole lot of $. Again, that is just my opinion. Have you looked in to Rescue? look up Havanese Rescue - go to Petfinder.com You may find the perfect match for your lovely family, at a reasonable price. I hope that you are successful as this is such a wonderful breed, but your situation is certainly understandable. 
Laurie


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Alicia,
You will find that Havanese are not unique in the pricing for a puppy. Many purebred dogs that come from good, ethical breeders, charge over $1500 for a puppy, no matter what the breed. My son just got an English Bulldog and paid $1800 for it. A Lab breeder I know charges $1600 for a pet Lab. A Doberman breeder I know charges $2400 for a pet. A Yorkie breeder I know charges $2500 for a pet.

It is like anything else in life really. If it is something one wants bad enough, we save for it. No different then a person wanting a particular type of car over another. If one decides they want a Lexus over a Chevy, they save for it or money isn't an issue for them. 

It isn't cheap breeder good, healthy puppies and standing behind what you breed. There are many bad breeders out there, so the price isn't the issue to me, it is more what the breeder is doing and if that breeder stands behind the puppies they produce.

I assume by your age that your children are young. Maybe you could make it a family affair and have everyone start saving for a family dog. It teaches children responsibility and gets everyone involved in the idea of getting the dog they all want so badly. 

Hope this helps some,


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## monkeytam (May 7, 2007)

I am wary of rescues because of the temperment/backround of the dog. But that is something I will look into. Could I get a dog from rescue with 3 kids? ages 6, 5 and 1 year. I stay at home so care of the dog wouldn't be a problem.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

monkeytam said:


> I am wary of rescues because of the temperment/backround of the dog. But that is something I will look into. Could I get a dog from rescue with 3 kids? ages 6, 5 and 1 year. I stay at home so care of the dog wouldn't be a problem.


Typically no, your children are too young for most rescues I think. Also, any animal you get as a pet, will cost you money. The food, vet bills can be very, very high these days, grooming, etc.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I am not sure if you can get a rescue with kids, but I do know that there are a lot of people here with rescues and they are wonderful dogs. Especially if you get a puppy rescue. They're harder to come by, though. Shannon's Jax was a rescue pup, I'm sure you can ask her about him if you'd like.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I think it would depend on the adoption center. Some have more strict rules than others. I can say that the recent raiding of the puppy mill in Va opened up tons of puppys on the east coast. The NY Animal Shore League took over 120 of the dogs, and as of I believe yesterday, almost ALL have been adopted. They are out there, you just need to look. I just rescued a wonderful little Maltese boy, and he is doing fabulously in his new home. It was a few days of training, and he is fine.


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## Gracie's Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

Alicia~

It sounds like you are really down. Your kids are the most important! You definitely need to provide for them first. Don't put yourself or your family in hardship for a dog - totally NOT worth it!!! Even though - I absolutely love my dogs. Have you tried the rescues? Also, if you would like another avenue. . . I know there are a few breeders that don't do any testing. (I'm definitely NOT saying this is the way to go) I don't really encourage it because if you have never had a dog - trust me - you need one without health problems. The testing can help you avoid buying a dog that may have problems in the future. I've had dogs with health problems in the past and you may end up with a dog that would cost you SO much more in the long run. Also - you might do research on adopting a slightly older pup that the breeder kept in hopes for showing or breeding that didn't work out for whatever reason. They would still be wonderful pups. 

Though, I can't stress enough - dogs are expensive and you need to be prepared for the financial strain if you are crunching numbers. I am a lover of Dave Ramsey check him out at daveramsey.com. He has a wonderful plan that can help you if necessary. He's like Dr. Phil of the financial world. I'm not trying to imply that debt is an issue, but it is of many, many Americans and once it did get us over barrel. I hope that it will work out for you to get a little dog someday. Good luck - chin up! The timing just may not be right.

Karen


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Kathy, I so agree with you, which is why I put down how much money I've spent on Kubrick so far. And I do think that's an underestimate. I just spent $591 on Kubrick's neuter so I'm sure I've spent more $$ than I would like to think about.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

It is so true about the "unexpected" expenses. Poor Leslie was shocked with Shadow, and I am sure that Marj can speak to this, once Ricky's bill comes in. But you have to decide what is important in your life, and I agree with Karen (as I am sure you do to) that the kids are what is important first! This is the best breed, and I can say well worth waiting for. I never had a dog and now have three Havs, but I did wait till things calmed down a bit, kids were in HS , and finances were a little better. Although I cannot afford to pay for pet insurance for 3 dogs, I have related to some of the other owners here and started a dog emergency fund ( whenever I have a little extra cash - I put it in an envelope incase one of my guys get sick & I dont have the funds for it). I surely feel for you , and your desire to have a dog, and to have a Havanese!! If you decide to wait, I hope you will stay on the forum to learn all you can so when the timing is right, you have all the info you need!
Laurie


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

There are several factors for the higher prices. The most obvious is that the price is market-driven.

Secondly, a lot of us show our breeding stock to ensure they conform the breed standard, which adds up quite a bit ($60-$300/wknd easily for 2-24 months). Then there is health testing and that is around $500-600 for a pair of dogs. Add in regular veterinary care, plus whelping supplies and any reproductive care. If the owner of the mother/puppies doesn't have the stud, then she is probably paying a stud fee too.

I don't know any good breeders that make a profit.

Now, for those breeders that don't show or do health testing, don't ask me how they justify their prices. I've never understood that except that they are trying to make money off their dogs.

Sorry, I started typing this before there were any replies, but got interrupted by a phone call. My reply doesn't flow very well.


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

I agree with others who suggest you consider a rescue or just be patient. Our youngest is six years old. It has been difficult to teach him the proper respect for a dog, even with a lot of work! He and Dusty get along well, but still need a lot of supervision from me. 
Not all rescue dogs have big issues, and with really young kids, a slightly older, well-socialized dog could be a very good thing. I agree with the post above, suggesting you get the kids involved in saving for or earning a dog. We had been without a dog for three years (by choice-our kids were young, our last dog wore us out!), and the whole family has really enjoyed having Dusty. Don't give up your dream of a dog. Just be patient and look for the right one-within your budget and right for your family. You'll find one and you never know, maybe it will be a havanese!

Another encouraging thought. A friend of mine with a ten-year old daughter recently adopted a mixed breed dog (probably pomeranian/chihuahua) that a friend of hers found abandoned on the street. This little dog has turned out to be the sweetest, best dog for her and her daughter! She was free except for the vet check and is just a wonderful little gal. They could not be happier.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Alicia, you've asked some good questions and gotten some very good answers. I will definitely admit that when I first started looking at Havanese and I read the prices of puppies, my jaw hit the floor with a great big thud. I had never paid over $35 for a dog in my life (they were pound pups and some were strays that were FREE!!) 

Your children are still quite young so I would second the suggestion of perhaps thinking about an older dog. Puppies are as much or more work than 1 year old humans, plus, they deserve as much attention, devotion and training as a 1 year old. Some small children are well equipped to learn how to treat a small dog gently and with respect and others are not. You would be the only one to know for sure about your own children. 

Perhaps take your kids to a local dog show. It would be fun for them to see all the dogs and it's a perfect opportunity to see the dogs up close and personal, plus you can talk to breeders and get their advice and their honest talk about what owning a Hav is all about what with the CERF testing, the grooming, the sensitivity to certain vaccinations etc.(although I haven't met one yet who tells you how often you will have to clean poopy butts!) Most importantly, they would get to know you and you may find someone who has some great ideas for you.

I'd be very wary of the cheaper, online Havs. You may get a perfect one but you may also get one that is in need of a LOT of veterinary care and then you'll find that the breeder has vanished into thin air. A good breeder will answer your phone calls, answer your emails, help you through any issues with your pup, reassure you when needed and even show up at the vet clinic with you if you need him/her and they are close by.

Good luck in your search.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm going to make another suggestion as well. If you really want one of these dogs and they do make great family pets, why not find a way to save up some money over time. Let me give you an example. My daughter-in-law was in need of extra income at a time when my son was starting up a business and she began to sell some household items, mostly things from the kids and from her wardrobe that they no longer needed, on ebay. These were things that would have been given away or thrown away, but instead she made money on them. She became quite good at it and earned thousands of dollars to help supplement their income.

Just understand that a puppy, any puppy is a big commitment and with three small children, know what you're getting into before you leap head first into an empty pool. 

Good luck whatever you decide.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Hi Alicia~~To be honest with you, the high cost of purchasing a purebred dog is only the beginning. The vet bills, meds, grooming, food, toys, neutering, dogsitters, accessories, toys, beds, training classes, etc. really really add up. My husband and I simply cannot believe how much we've spent this year on this fluffy white little guy. We're afraid to even add it up!! 

I think with three little kids you already have a very full plate. :juggle: The dog care & potty training is also incredibly time-consuming and demanding the first year~~like having another child! I would honestly wait until your children are a little bigger, and able to participate in the responsibility of caring for the dog, and you are able to budget more comfortably for a dog, any dog. 

I do understand your feelings because I have always ALWAYS wanted a dog since I was a child, and this is my very first dog, and I just got him after turning 60!! So you are still very young, sweetheart, and perhaps need to be just a little more patient. When the time is right, getting a dog will be wonderful. Best of luck & happy holidays to you & your family.


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> Now, for those breeders that don't show or do health testing, don't ask me how they justify their prices. I've never understood that except that they are trying to make money off their dogs.


I understand the higher price for a champion mom and dad....but I don't understand a breeder that ask a higher price with no showing on either side of the parents.

Health testing is a must, but I think for the highest price out there, there should be both health testing and showing of the parents of the puppies.

We have a breeder here is state that ask a high price for her puppies, does health testing but no showing of any of her 7-9 dogs she has. I was not willing to pay the high price, when she did not show her dogs.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Yes, I agree with Amy! The costs DO add up, and when I was 27 yo. I was swamped with paying college loans, starting a company, raising young children and a dog, even though I wanted one, was not practical for me at the time. Not only are Havanese more expensive than other breeds, they require a great deal of attention. And yes, bills quickly add up and that's not even considering if something HAPPENED to the dog that would require hundreds or thousands of dollars of surgery.

So, be patient.

To me, $1500-$2000 a dog isn't THAT much if I factor in cost per year 15 years of companionship for roughly $100 a year, which is what? $8-9 dollars a month (feel free to correct me, mathmeticians I did not pull up my calculator!) Add Medical cost, food and 'extras' to that and it may be around $30 or more, but I spoil my dog like nobody's business. 

So, maybe a Hav isn't right for you, right now..but maybe one day it will be.

Kara


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Welcome to the forum-a great place to get many questions asked. 

Who was it on here the other day that just got the free dog but then had to have a costly surgery on it? The unfortunate part of pet ownership is the expense! The initial cost of a puppy is nothing compared to the other expenses down the road and often times the cheaper the cost upfront, the more the cost is later.

Amanda


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Hi Alicia, welcome to the forum. I think your children may be a bit young for a Havanese, puppy. My son bought his 5 year old a miniture poodle and it would never have anything to do with her. She tried to carry it around and was not as gentle as she should have been. She was just being a 5 year old.

My children have had pure bred dogs all of their lives and if you ask which dog was their all time favorite both will say it was the Pound puppy a neighbor got and didn't want. Tramp was the best guard dog we had, meet the school bus every day and never slept in the house. 

My daughter now only has dogs from the SPCA. They are all healthy and happy. With limited funds I would suggest you look at the shelters, they have some really nice dogs with plenty of love to give. Once you have the dog the cost will be about the some as a pure bred (Havanese) with food, shots, wormings, etc. Shorter coated dogs are much easier to deal with, I have had both and the Havanese require alot of time on their coats with just keeping the everyday brushing done. 

Good luck with your search.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I think we scared her away. 

But, it is true. The initial cost of the dog is sticker shock, but then there is the upkeep of the dog for the next 14 years. Also, there is a big time investment to train the dog properly - and not just housetraining, but obedience, socialization, etc. I agree with everyone. Try a rescue group or the local shelter. 

And regarding the dogs from the puppy mill rescue...when it was announced that North Shore Animal League on LI had 135 dogs for adoption, people lined up the night before. They had a very successful adoption day last Friday.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Hi Michele, thanks for the confirmation, I heard over 120, I didnt realize it was 135!! Isnt that great to know that most if not all were adopted!! I hope we didnt scare her away, and she understands that we just want to help.


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## monkeytam (May 7, 2007)

I am still here. Just had to cook dinner and things like that. I think we can afford a dog/puppy it is just the intial money that will take so long to save. food, toys, vet bills, groomers things like that we will have covered. maybe if we save the income tax money from this year. We will have enough, to get the dog and beginner things we need. My husband says no more babies, (tmi, I know) so this dog will be my 4th baby. It doesn't bother me that the dog will be needy or a people dog. I want that so I am prepared for it. I plan to spoil it rotten. Thanks for everyone's input.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Ladies,

My husband just laughed HYSTERICALLY at my apparent LOWBALL estimate of what I spend a month on Gucci girl. He had to remind me of the $500, dehydrator, $300 grooming table plus dryer, $100 grooming supplies (and that doesnt' include my last 4-5 purchases, combs, brushes, etc) Her pile of dresses and coats..ehh..another 500? lol...oh, and then the fresh lamb and filet mignon/tenderloin...and that is just the last few months. lol

You have to be prepared for anything.

I've been on the phone/computer all day with a hysterical friend who's hav got hurt last night. The estimated emergency room and surgery will cost them atleast $3000. Anything can happen. 

Kara


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Laurie, they had to hold back some of the dogs because they were so skittish. They will work with them on socialization, and once they pass, they will be adoptable. They have a good program at NSAL, I just don't agree with their tactics.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Kara that is the same conversation I had the other night!!! The hav fun day was a bad idea cause I could have a new puppy right now! I told my husband my it was my allowance and then he actually showed me the credit card statement and I swear all the things that were suddenly billed and then the things billed early... lets just say last month, I bought half a hav and didn't realize it!

Amanda


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## Gracie's Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

If you think you're going to get one. Look for a reputable breeder - that will take time. Visit as many as you can or at least talk to as many as possible. Ask as many questions as you can think of. If possible, spend the extra money for a reputable breeder, they are worth so much more than the money you fork out. They will always give you the time you need to make you feel comfortable with your decision. Remember - they really do care about who is going to take their little puppy!! It is possible the breeder you choose, may just have a litter available around tax time. Good things are worth the wait. And yes, puppies are very expensive, but they ARE much cheaper than having a 4th child. Research the threads (as I'm sure you already have), and ask the forum as many questions as you need. Everyone is so helpful. Plus they love giving their opinions, which is really valuable when you weigh out how many caring responses you get. Good luck, and I hope it works out for you.

Karen


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Lina said:


> Kathy, I so agree with you, which is why I put down how much money I've spent on Kubrick so far. And I do think that's an underestimate. I just spent $591 on Kubrick's neuter so I'm sure I've spent more $$ than I would like to think about.


Yikes! The prices in NY are out of control. Scudder's neuter was 180.00.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Linda, tell me about it. It did include a microchip, tooth extraction and pre-op blood work, but I guess New Yorkers are used to being ripped off.


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

Smarty has a good point about young children and Havanese. My son is 7 and the two of them don't get along so well. He is just a bit too rough with the puppy and in turn Gryff doesn't always want to be around him and growls at him. I am convinced that they are both very young and in time will grow to be good pals, but right now it hasn't happened for them.

As for price, I was able to get Gryff for $1200 - a bargain! The woman I got him from wasn't a real professional breeder. This was only her second litter. Her female Havanese had such a good temperment that all her friends convinced her to breed her. She sired out the male show dog, but her dog was just a pet although purebreed. Perhaps you could find a situation like that (although $1200 is still a lot of money, it's not $2000!)


Kara - sorry to hear about your friend's dog. I hope he'll be okay. As for the amount of money you spend on Gucci - well that's just sick! Alicia, you don't have to spend as much on a dog as our little precious Gucci. Her mommy spoils her rotten!!!! Kara, my husband read me the riot act on spending too much on Gryff - and he only has two sweaters and a jacket. Poor thing barely has has a wardrobe at all.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I once tried to add up the money I've spent on the girls....... I gave up. Luckily I have a husband whose attitude is, "if the girls need it, okay." (That was his actual statement) Note that he did not define "need." He does, however, have a fit if I spend what the thinks is too much on me! He's darned lucky I'm not a clothes horse.


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from getting a dog but from experience I can tell you what it was like to have a puppy and VERY young children. Not fun, actually it was a disaster. I wouldn't do it again if I'd known. Puppies are an incredible amount of work, more than I realized. Even now, with my 3rd dog, and the kids gone, I'm amazed at the time and energy it takes. Also, it will be very difficult if not impossible, to teach a one year old how to properly treat a dog. I know, been there, done that! Also in looking back, I feel bad that my dog sort of got my leftovers, if you know what I mean. In retrospect, I wish I had had more time to devote to the dog, but kids are the priority.

I'm sorry if this sounds negative but I do believe in being honest. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

I think rescues are a great way to go. You may be able to get a younger dog that has already been vaccinated and spayed/neutered for a much more reasonable price. The younger they are I would think the less "issues" they would have. Also, those great foster families really work with the dogs to help them get over their "isues". I would have to say that with diapers to change I'm not sure I would also want to be potty training.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Hi Alicia!

I'm glad you found the forum  I also have kids and would hesitate to get a rescue just because I would be worried about problems (what if the dog bit one of my kids' friends? etc.) I also agree that it might be difficult to get one with such young children in your home. Even our local shelter will not place many of the dogs in a home with kids under the age of 8. 

I know the price of Havs seems high. My husband keeps telling me that the least expensive part of owning a dog is buying the dog itself and there is some truth to that! With the Havs, there will be other expenses (like grooming) that add up. I'd recommend saving up for one though vs. trying to find one that costs less that may end up having expensive health problems. Good luck and keep us posted on your search.


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## suzyfrtz (Nov 12, 2007)

Yes, puppies and dogs are alot of work and they deserve to be 100% a member of the family. I remember many many years ago - like over 40 - when our children were very small -- we had outside, farm dogs then, who seemed content to putter around the yard and fields, and if they got sick...well, they would have to be really sick to see a vet....Paying for grooming? There was no money to spare even if my farm boy husband had ever heard of such a thing!  And with four little ones I was up to my ears just taking care of them! Things changed when the kids grew older. Our first inside dog was a mini doxie. Our finances were more stable, the kids could help take care of him, and he became a true member of the family. We are retired now and have our first Hav. and you will not believe how we spoil him, yes the former farm boy does too! His only objection is the bow in his topnot when he comes home from the groomers! Not manly! I would like to add that I think the costs depend on where in the U.S. or Canada you live. Our vet and grooming expenses here in the semi-rural midwest are not as high as those on either coasts or in the big cities. Also, our breeder had an older dog (not a show dog but a beautiful, sweet lovely looking dog with one year health guarantee) that she was willing to part with for a little less, given the hard economic times currently here in Michigan. Anyway, I agree with those who think you should wait for a Hav. until you can devote much time to him or her...they are the kind of breed which thrives on personal attention. Best wishes to you!


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Hi Alicia and welcome to the forum!

I understand your frustration, I felt the same way about other things myself.
Very often, life just simply isn't fair.
When you honestly believe your kids are ready to be trusted with a small dog, rescue is a wonderful option. BUT...on the other hand, I recently returned from Dallas with a 7lb Maltese rescue dog that had been turned over by a mom of 2 small kids that had tormented this poor, sweet dog. He is the most gentle, loving little guy ever, but he is terrified of kids. He's also missing teeth on one side of his mouth....

Please don't think I'm being mean or anti-kids, but animals can't speak for themselves and generally can't defend themselves, and if they do, they're the one's that are punished. 

Beverly


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## ChristineL (Aug 31, 2007)

I have my hands full coping with two full-coated Havs - I couldn't imagine having 3 young kids in the mix! I groom them myself, which takes a lot of time, but is one way that I cut down on expenses.

Mine also cost a lot upfront - Kahlua was $1800 and Buffy was $2000. I think we were ripped off with Buffy as she was supposed to be a show-quality dog, but there is no way that we could ever have showed her. Lucky she's a little angel and we love her to death regardless. I know the high prices for mine were because their parents were show champions imported from the USA and Europe to start the line up in Australia, so when I put that in perspective, the price makes sense.


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## Lo01 (Jul 22, 2007)

Gracie's Mom said:


> Alicia~
> 
> It sounds like you are really down. Your kids are the most important! You definitely need to provide for them first. Don't put yourself or your family in hardship for a dog - totally NOT worth it!!! Even though - I absolutely love my dogs. Have you tried the rescues? Also, if you would like another avenue. . . I know there are a few breeders that don't do any testing. (I'm definitely NOT saying this is the way to go) I don't really encourage it because if you have never had a dog - trust me - you need one without health problems. The testing can help you avoid buying a dog that may have problems in the future. I've had dogs with health problems in the past and you may end up with a dog that would cost you SO much more in the long run. Also - you might do research on adopting a slightly older pup that the breeder kept in hopes for showing or breeding that didn't work out for whatever reason. They would still be wonderful pups.
> 
> ...


Karen I agree with you 100%. BTW -- Dave will actually be in Colorado Springs some time in the near future for his Total Money Makeover Series. My family is currently both "debt free" and use no credit cards (only debit cards really), so as you can tell, we are huge fans of Dave !!! We look forward to possibly meeting him when he comes to town.

:focus:

"Better than I deserve.."
All the best,
*'Lo*


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## Gracie's Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

'Lo - 

So glad to hear of more D.R. fans. We follow his plan as closely, and loving it. We are nearly debt free. We took FPU and it changed our lives forever. I will look into his stop in C.S. We just stopped our membership to his My Total Money Makeover, so I haven't been visiting his website nearly as much lately. He really has a great no nonsense approach, and puts in such a great "package".

Thanks for the info!
Karen


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

monkeytam said:


> Why do havanese cost so much? I know there are reasons for it like vet cost and other things that the breeder must pay for, but really is it that expensive to have a litter of puppies? I have done tons of reading and would love to have a havanese but $1500-$2000 per dog?
> 
> Alicia


Hi Alicia. I remember thinking the same thing when I first found out how much havs are so I understand your thinking. I'll give you a rundown of what it cost me to breed my last litter.
Between the stud fees, paying the stud owner's gas, test for venereal disease, 2 flights, motel bill because she missed the plane and the airport is so far from her, and I forget what else, my bill was about 2500.00. That was the breeding only. After that, then I had vet care. Then I had puppy checkups to pay for along with puppy shots. I had the litter checked for hearing (BAER test) which was almost 400 and a 12 hour round trip.
There is health testing to do on the bitch you breed which depending on where you live the prices vary. There's the regular tests like cardiac and patella and then you pay a specialist once a year to check the eyes. There's also a hip xray which in my area I pay 300 for. 
Since when I breed I breed for myself first, that means I keep a puppy from the litter and cross my toes, eyes, and fingers and hope the puppy that I keep for myself turns out the way I want it to.
With 3 in a litter I can't find a profit margin in there and maybe that helps explain the cost of our breed a little.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Lo01 said:


> Karen I agree with you 100%. BTW -- Dave will actually be in Colorado Springs some time in the near future for his Total Money Makeover Series. My family is currently both "debt free" and use no credit cards (only debit cards really), so as you can tell, we are huge fans of Dave !!! We look forward to possibly meeting him when he comes to town.
> 
> :focus:
> 
> ...


I love to listen to him!! Dave makes so much sense.


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

I have to say I was shocked at how much the havanese were but decided I really wanted one. Now not only would I not be shocked, I would pay twice the amount for the amount of joy I get from Mirabel! She was worth every penny and more.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> Hi Alicia. I remember thinking the same thing when I first found out how much havs are so I understand your thinking. I'll give you a rundown of what it cost me to breed my last litter.


Wow, Jan. I also remember my dogs' breeder telling us it was about $1000-$1500 for a c-section too....


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Jane said:


> Wow, Jan. I also remember my dogs' breeder telling us it was about $1000-$1500 for a c-section too....


Bandit has a C section on her other litter on Christmas Eve. The office was closed but I called the vet at home and he went in with no staff and took care of her. I believe my bill was under 800 but would have to look it up. 
Prices run differently across the country. I pay a huge amount for hip xrays where others pay a third of what I do but it looks like a C section cost me half the price.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

> Kara - sorry to hear about your friend's dog. I hope he'll be okay. As for the amount of money you spend on Gucci - well that's just sick! Alicia, you don't have to spend as much on a dog as our little precious Gucci. Her mommy spoils her rotten!!!! Kara, my husband read me the riot act on spending too much on Gryff - and he only has two sweaters and a jacket. Poor thing barely has has a wardrobe at all


Ivy, Thanks! I've been crying with her all day! My friend is a wreck. Her dog hurt his poor leg and after about $1000 in Emergency room bills, they are now scheduling sugery, which will be another few grand. But she's not really even worried about the money. You know, we'd ALL fork it over for our dogs but its relevant to this topic.

I have a bad shopping habit! lol

Actually, though...when I was 27 I had children about the same age as you, 2, 5, and 8..and I can't imagine how hard that would be. I ended up re-marrying again around 32 to a man with FOUR children, so now I have 7. Most of them are in the double digits now 10, 11, 12, 15, and 18 BUT..I still have my 8 yo twin stepdaughter's that are here every other weekend and they are NOT great with Gucci. They both dropped her when she was a pup (not seriously, but the second I turned my back they went to pick her up DESPITE being told not to about 5894854 times) And they carelessly do cartwheels or run around/goof off and I really HAVE to monitor them 24/7. I usually keep the dog away from them, because...well, they are young kids and just a bit 'rough' and think she's a stuffed animal. It stresses me out to manage small kids and a small dog every other weekend..I can't imagine doing it day in and day out! That would drive me to sedatives and drinking! LOL

I'd say Gucci tolerates the younger kids, she likes to play with them at "her" discretion, but if they fiddle with her when she's not in the mood or get too loud...Gucci really gets annoyed and will hide from them. She prefers the teenagers, maybe that's because they treat/handle her more like I do? And my 10 yr old stepdaughter that 'doesn't like dogs' (Catherine is just ambivalent..like "Oh, a dog..**shrugs**, Kara, can we go shopping?" lol..So, I'll often see Gucci snuggled up next to her when she's here..but the younger one's or 'more hyper' kids? There's a certain careless/clumsiness with small dogs and very young children...I did wait til the children were older, and that was a good decision looking back 'for me' and my sanity! lol

Kara


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

I would say with three young children, you already have your hands full.

When I was growing up me and my siblings were only 1 year apart. My parents brought home a lab mix and he was very tolerant of us children. 

I don't think it would be a good idea to put a small dog in a home with 3 small children, but maybe a bigger breed from a shelter, would suit your family better. There are alot of bigger breeds that love children. Just do some research before going to the shelter. They have plenty of puppies.

Also, you are talking alot of grooming time with a havanese and I am sure you are plenty busy with three young children.

Don't get down. Just rethink what is best for your family at this point in your life and you can always get a havanese when your children are older.

Big dogs are just as loving. My boys are the first small dogs I have ever owned. I always preferred bigger dogs as they are usually on the calmer side and I always like the protection they offer.


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

My husband gave me a huge laundry list of requirements for a dog: non shedding, small, temperment, blah blah blah. I never thought I'd find a breed that would suit him, but then I found the Havanese. If it had been up to me however, I would have gotten a large dog. I find they are much better with children.

Gryff really likes kids -- all except mine!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

> Gryff really likes kids -- all except mine!


LOL! ound: Gosh, that's funny...but, yet..It Isn't!  I know what you mean though, Gucci loves toddlers and babies BUT if they lived here full time, she'd be hiding under the couch all the time or cowaring at my side, and toddlers are not very coordinated, just petting her..they are basically hitting her on the head, ya know? But I'd have to say my 8 yo twins are her 'least' favorite out of my crew.

Paige makes a really good point with a larger dog, but not all big breeds are good with children (I'm thinking of the weimy/lab mix next door, which has alot more weimer traits than lab) So you'd have to research that.

A small dog can be easily injured. I practically carry Gucci around when the twins are here and protect her. And my friend w/ the hurt-leg dog, her kids didn't do that...but I can EASILY see it happening with a young child and an 8lb dog to ANY of us. Havs are always underfoot!

Kara


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## JCChaplin (Oct 2, 2007)

My first dog who is now 9 years old was a rescue. At the time, my kids were 5,8 and 11. She has been an absolute gift!! I think that rescue dogs are gratetful to their owners and very loyal. If you go to a good adoption center(on Long Island we have the North Shore Animal League) they test the temperment of the dogs and would only let you adopt a dog that is good with kids. The reality is that even with a $2,500.00 dog, you don't always know the full temperment until you live with the dog for a while. good Luck!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

When we were at the funday, I overheard a breeder talking to a family who has children. He said the concerns aren't with a toddler but they are with children between 3 and 8 who are most likely to injure a toy dog. I didn't want to interrupt and ask why (come on I was busy with the puppies no time to talk!) but I would have thought younger kids who don't know better are more likely to hurt a dog. I know a lot of maltese breeders won't even consider a family with children and I have heard horrible stories so I understand why they are crazy about it. Both my girls like children but they are always monitored with them. Dora thinks of them as Pez Dispensers! 

Amanda


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## monkeytam (May 7, 2007)

Thanks everyone for the replies. I understand about what everyone is saying about younger kids and dogs. I am sure I could work with my older ones one on one with the dog and teach them. They are not to use to dogs because no one has one that we know, except for my grandparents and it is a Schnauzer. The dog has not been around kids so the dog is kept separate when we are there. I personally can't stand that breed. 

Someone said something about a larger breed dog, I can understand that too. Except I don't think that would be a good choice for us. One reason is I have Cerebral Palsy. I don't have good balance and the last thing I need is a dog running at me, jumping on me and knocking me down. My sister had several lab/ lab mixes, they are good with kids but when they get excited about you coming over or just playing with them, good grief. My grandparents had shelties and sheltie puppies while I was young from about the age of 4 on until I moved when I was 20. Never had a problem with them at all. I have also been around yorkies, and poodles. I do better with small dogs. They may jump and get excited but I can handle them more. Plus every once in a while we travel to South Carolina to see family. So we need a dog that would fit in our van with out much trouble. Plus I don't think the inlaws would like a big dog in their house or the dog hair. That is why I am interested in getting a small dog that doesn't shed so much. Another reason is that the dog will be an inside dog. I don't go outside that much except to wait on my daughter to get home from school, she rides the bus home everyday. Now saying that don't be worried about the dog not getting enough exercise, it will. My husband will be responsible for that part. About the kids being rough with each other or with the dog. The kids when they are all home don't usually do alot of rough playing one because I don't like it and two my daughter, who will be 6 in dec. is a girly girl. They are usually rough when their daddy is home to play with them. And usually I am not in the room because I don't want to get hurt by accident. I wouldn't let the kids do any of that with the dog in the room, anyway no matter what size or breed we get. My older kids are pretty well behaved, very smart and loving. We usually get complimented when we are out on how well they are behaved. Also I wouldn't be against the idea of us getting a trainer or enrolling in puppy education classes. That would help in teaching the kids and us how to hande the dog. I have also been looking into the Bichon Frise. Does anyone here know about those? As far as temperant goes, are there any differences? I know they are in the same family as the havanese. I have been talking to some owners of those as well. The people say they are good with kids. One breeder said she does sell to people with kids but she has to meet them first, OF COURSE!. Since 1990 she has only had 2 bad things happen envolving kids. One being with her own grandchildren and the other being with someone who had to give up one of her dogs to another family. 

Sorry for such a long post!

Alicia


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Kodi and Shelby love kids. I think because they are closer to ground level. All except one kid. My cousin, who's daughter is 9 now, is an absolute pest when it comes to the dogs. You think she would know better, because she has 7 dogs. But, they are the worst behaved dogs I have ever seen. And she is part of the problem.

My two will growl at her, and Kodi has even snapped at her. The last few times we were together, I had her give them treats, and that sort of calmed them down. Then they started playing with her. They love kids, but they like to make the first move, no have the kids jump all over them.


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

I've heard that bichon frise have a great temperment also, but I don't have any personal experience with them. When we first began looking for a dog (this time!) we got a gigantic book on dog breeds from the library and read through it looking for one that met our requirements-small, non-shedding, great with kids, not noisy. That's how we found the havanese, but there are other breeds with similar characteristics as well. I've heard and read good things about bichon frise, poodles, etc.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Paige said:


> I would say with three young children, you already have your hands full.


I definitely felt "full" with my two active boys....I didn't and still don't even have houseplants because I couldn't deal with having anything else in my house that needed CARE in order to live.

But then, those nuturing hormones kicked in when my youngest was around 6 and we got Lincoln - he is my 3rd child....then after 2 years when Lincoln grew up and slowed down, we got Scout (my 4th child)!

I am really glad we got the dogs after the hu-kids were a bit older - both for me and for them. The kids interact really well with them.


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## monkeytam (May 7, 2007)

If anyone is interested here is my myspace. I have pics of everyone posted. I am not ashamed or anything about it, nothing on it would offend anyone I know. Just incase you all are curious as to what we look like.

http://myspace.com/aliciabsb97ctw4brok

Hope I did that right

Alicia


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

monkeytam said:


> Someone said something about a larger breed dog, I can understand that too. Except I don't think that would be a good choice for us. One reason is I have Cerebral Palsy. I don't have good balance and the last thing I need is a dog running at me, jumping on me and knocking me down.


I have a friend that has something similar to MS, so she has balance/walking issues. She just got a 10-year old collie rescue dog with arthritis who was going to be put to sleep because her elderly owners moved and couldn't take her along  She is not exuberant and very calm and gets along pretty well with her 6-year old son.

Havs, especially the puppies, can be very exuberant and seemingly underfoot :biggrin1:

Another friend has a very calm and sweet Bichon Frise girl. She grooms her every day so her hair is straighter and she looks more like a Hav that way (vs. a poodle). I think they are in general less expensive than the Havs too. Take your time with all this - I hope you will find the right breed and the right timing for your family, Alicia!


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## Gracie's Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

I can see why 3 to 8 year olds can injure the small dogs more than toddlers. It's because they can lift them. My daughter, who is 8, has tried lifting Gracie over her head. Ahhhhh!! That gives me a heart attack!! She is pretty good for the most part, but she is confident that she can handle the dog. _* A little more confident than she is really capable of at times. *_ Her little friend that is 7 recently got a pug and was swinging the poor little pup around by its front legs. I think we are OK with little Gracie, but if my daughter were any younger I would never get a thing done thinking she would hurt Gracie. When friends are over, I require that they only hold her in the living room (where I can supervise). They cannot wander the house with her. Besides, they take candy and junk everywhere. I just don't want Gracie to get hurt or eat something shes not supposed to eat. Besides the money you fork over for them . . . I'd be heartbroken if something happened to her.

Karen


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I don't know anything about Bichon's personally but my former boss has one (or I should say, his wife has one....) and they love the personality. 

Our dear friends have an 8 year old grandson that they are raising. He's a good kid but VERY active. McKenna and Sedona love him for about an hour because he really gives them a good workout. After that though, they are in someone's lap for some rest and we have to remind Jason that the dogs need to rest so he can no longer play with them. 

It sounds like you've thought a lot about your decision and how you would handle your children and a puppy. My only concern would be with a puppy during the puppy stages of nipping and biting. I've heard of too many pups being turned in to shelters because they "bit" toddlers. It would take a lot of patience not to scold the puppy for doing what puppies do, even to the point of nipping or snapping if a tail gets pulled or an eye gets poked by accident. 

I do wish you well in your search. A dog adds so much to a family.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Alicia,

I am going to suggest that you contact Havanese breeders who might have, or know of, an older dog who would fit with your family. Havs that I've seen, seem to be very youthful and active even over the age of 5. I'm not suggesting that you get a senior dog, although that might not be a bad idea, but I truly think that the right breeder could help you. Some may have older sweet, dogs who are used to kids, that they may not want to keep for various reasons. The cost should be less, also.

I hate to see you deprived of one of these precious dogs. Especially since you are home so much and would love the companionship!

It seems that your husband would be home in the evening to monitor the kids and you say that you stay away from them when they are getting active. You and your dog could "hang out" together away from the kids.

You could take the dog to obedience and work on this as a family. It would be a good outlet for you and you'd meet new people, and doggie friends. You could sit and watch, while your husband and kids work in the class. I am in a obedience class now and a 7 year old boy handles the dog. (dog is over 3 and already has had some training). He loves it and we all enjoy watching him.

I agree with the others that puppies get underfoot too much. I have a very calm 7 month old, but she is always right behind me in the kitchen and family room and I have to be very careful not to trip on her. 

You could also look into Bichons, or other small breeds, but it is the temperament that is key here, rather than the breed. With an older dog, the temperament is more evident, altho even that could change a bit with the circumstances, i.e. changing environments from a quieter one to a more active one.

Grooming could also be an issue with you so you have to think long and hard about the coat of the Havs. That could be handled by keeping it in a cute short puppy cut.

I say, prepare yourself and your family, investigate further, know what you are getting into, and go for it. There certainly are families with kids who enjoy their Havs. With the will and committment, it can be done.
Life is short....


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

> She is pretty good for the most part, but she is confident that she can handle the dog. _*A little more confident than she is really capable of at times. *_


Yes, that is what I deal with regarding my 8 year old twins. They are not "bad kids" or little heathens, they are very sweet girls that LOVE dogs, but handle Gucci very clumsy and are KIDS, kids are not going to be as wary and aware of their surroundings as adults or older kids, because they are just not mentally capable. I am always aware when the dog is underfoot, but the younger kids can get caught in the 'zone' of thinking like a kid. We were making stockings this weekend on the sewing room floor and Gucci went to sit next to one of the twins and watch and she had the needle in her hand and went to move her arm to push Gucci away and I, of course, being a grown up sensed the danger before it even happened so I intervened and moved the dog and had to remind them to keep the door shut, Etc..., but that's just an example of what I mean about young kids/small dogs. Its not a good kid/bad kid thing, it is a 'maturity', "being able to asses risk and/or danger" thing.

Another point of contention with the small kids..are the doggie-naps!


> After that though, they are in someone's lap for some rest and we have to remind Jason that the dogs need to rest so he can no longer play with them


You'd think by my younger ones would understand this, but I have to explain this atleast 6 times when they are over here! lol

My husband says that having Gucci is like having a "permanent toddler", and its true, really. Just this morning alone, I've had to pull paper, a pen out of her mouth and pick up stuffing from the toy she shredded so she wouldn't eat it! LOL, Oh..and then empty can of McManns oatmeal that is 'scared' of. *sigh*

Kara


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## monkeytam (May 7, 2007)

What is the difference between the AKC and CKC? I am thinking AKC is better?


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

AKC is American and CKC is Canadian. I think there is also another CKC to?? Canine Kennel Club? (not sure what it is though,.....)


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Generally in the US, CKC is a made up registration that pet stores usually have- meaning puppy mill pup


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## monkeytam (May 7, 2007)

Ok so I want AKC then definately, thought so.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Alicia,
I know where you are coming from.I understand the financial aspect of a havanese puppy.I also had a terrible time coming up with the money to purchase Quincy.I have a special needs child that is almost 7 now.I wanted a havanese because of him(my son).My husband could never understand why someone would spend that kind of money for a dog.After tons of research,I still came back to the havanese.I ended up using part of my retirement acct. because I was absolutely positive he would help my son with disabilities.Everyone thought I was nuts,and so be it.I got Quincy and it was the first dog or any animal that didn't try to get away from him.He flew in on an airplane,and I took the lil' booger out and set him on my son's lap in the car seat.He curled up and slept.It was tear jerking.I tell about it in another thread...but do not give up hope.If you really,really want a hav--you'll think of a way.If I were you,I'd have everyone in my family all working to save a little here and there and put it in a jar or pick just the perfect dog bank etc.Havs are going to be around hon......don't be in a big hurry.In a year or two your kids will be a little older too,and you'll have the money to purchase a havanese puppy.You don't have to be rich to own a hav or I wouldn't have Quincy---just keep the focus,and you'll do it.Things to avoid----looking for puppies now.Been there-did that.I researched a long time....stay on here Alicia--when your time comes,you'll know exactly what you are looking for.:hug:


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## monkeytam (May 7, 2007)

Thanks Julie! Waiting is the worst thing about it. I told my husband that when we do finally get a dog, I'll probably have a heart attack or pass out. I sure hope I am sitting down when he tells me we can start talking to breeders and trying to find a dog. Good things come to those who wait though. I can say that with alot of things that have happened to me. What kind of disablity does your son have? I have Cerebral Palsy, but it is a mild case. Never had any surgeries or anything. Surgeries have always been elective in my case and I have always said no.


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## Olliesmom (Sep 29, 2006)

May sound crazy but.....

Buy yourself a BIG stand up piggybank of somekind...(mine is a huge plaster coke bottle shape)

Everyday put All of your change in it - your hubby kids etc....should all do it...

within a year you would be amazed how much $ you have....I saved $700 this year...and you NEVER feel like you are spending any money!!

We actually have fun every year when we count it....!eace:eace:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Waiting IS worth the wait...indeed! We see SO many stories on here from people that snatched up the first Hav they saw and end up heartbroken over a shady-breeder or unhealthy pup  It happens. There are NO guarantees of anything, but you can lessen your risks of high vet bills rolling in, ya know?

I probably could've managed a Hav when my kids were younger like yours, Heck..If I can handle 7 kids and a dog, I can probably manage anything, but it won't be easy! You'll have to be on top of your game at all times and very/extra *watchful* over them all. Dogs can bring alot of love, happiness and fun to a home.

Sorry to hear about your C. palsy!  I'm glad its manageable without surgery. I have my own medical problems which were also part of the reason why I wanted a smaller breed, along with allergies,etc.

The one thing that I read over and over again when I was researching Havanese, is that they are 'great family dogs'..although, what I've come to realize, is although they do normally interact well with the family, they are really ONE PERSON dogs. They attach themselves very closely to the main caretaker. My kids are sometimes jealous that Gucci will always choose me over them. So, be prepared for a little 'sibling' jealousy when the puppy starts getting lots of love and attention. You also have to give the human kidlets lots of extra love and kisses! 

Kara


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

Olliesmom said:


> May sound crazy but.....
> 
> Buy yourself a BIG stand up piggybank of somekind...(mine is a huge plaster coke bottle shape)
> 
> ...


Catherine, We do this too, and it is amazing how much it adds up.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

monkeytam said:


> What kind of disablity does your son have? I have Cerebral Palsy, but it is a mild case.


We are not exactly sure.I suspect celebral palsy,or autism.Just recently the education agency that works closely with our school system told me they think he is autistic.He was born at 29 weeks(2lbs.9oz.)


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

ama0722 said:


> When we were at the funday, I overheard a breeder talking to a family who has children. He said the concerns aren't with a toddler but they are with children between 3 and 8 who are most likely to injure a toy dog.
> Amanda


I have 2 very young grandkiddos that come over and the youngest is still unsteady on his feet. One of us is always holding his hand unless the dogs are in another room. If he landed on one it wouldn't be good.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Julie said:


> We are not exactly sure.I suspect celebral palsy,or autism.Just recently the education agency that works closely with our school system told me they think he is autistic.He was born at 29 weeks(2lbs.9oz.)


((((((((((((Julie)))))))))))) I'm concerned about my grandson and talked to my daughter about him a couple of days ago. He had a doctor appt the next day so she mentioned my concerns. The dr said he needs a speech therapist and hopefully we aren't dealing with autism. I guess time will tell. I'm sending you and your son hugs.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Jan, I just wanted to tell you that it's possible that just because he needs a speech therapist that he is just fine. My fiance had to go to a speech therapist until he was 8 years old and to this day he uses words that don't exactly mean what he meant to say and his English skills are not as great as they could be. That having been said, he's incredibly intelligent and does extremely well at his job and doesn't have any problems except for the fact that he sometimes needs to think harder about what to say than I would, for example.

I hope that's the case with your grandson! :hug:


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## monkeytam (May 7, 2007)

Julie said:


> We are not exactly sure.I suspect celebral palsy,or autism.Just recently the education agency that works closely with our school system told me they think he is autistic.He was born at 29 weeks(2lbs.9oz.)


CNN had a show on last night about autism. I watched a little bit. I wish you all the best with your son. I have been through so much in my life with people not understanding me and making fun. When I was younger it was especially hard.

Alicia


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Alicia, thank you for sharing your story. I tried the link you posted, but only saw a page with a cutiepie picture. Must be your youngest, right?  

As so many others have mentioned, it can be very challenging having a pup when we are so busy with young kids. I am sorry to hear about your CP, though it sounds like you have an amazing spirit and are handling life very well. I have 3 kids who are now 17, 16 and almost 13 and we only got Ricky a year ago. I have health issues as well, Fibromyalgia, and have had chronic back and shoulder pain for 18+ years so I was only interested in small breeds. There was no way I could physically handle a puppy or even an older dog until the kids were older and I got my health issues straightened out.With all my other criteria, we naturally ended up looking into the Havanese and the rest is history... we now own two Hav boys. 

My neighbor got a Maltese pup a week before we got Ricky and two weeks later, this tiny 3.5 lb pup was getting x-rays taken and had a hairline fracture in one leg because their 5 yr. old girl picked him up and dropped him. She'd been told a gazillion times not to pick the pup up, but ..... you know kids! And girls? They seem to be worse, thinking these tiny pups are dolls. lol 
Her 3 kids are all under 12 and she's told me she should never have gotten a small pup at this time as it's like having another baby in the house.

I'm sure you know exactly what having a young pup is like. You have years of dog experience already which helps greatly. There is always the risk of injury to the dog when there are young kids around, and it can also affect the personality of the dog if he/she is always afraid, hiding or becomes aggressive to protect himself. You might also want to consider getting a 'bigger' Hav that is a lot more solid and can take a few 'lumps'. Ricky is 16.5 lbs and quite tall and long so I don't fear him getting trampled on. Sammy, however, is a petite 8.5 lbs and low on the ground. He is skittish and more delicate. Some breeders have larger Havs on a regular basis so this might be something to consider.

The effort of grooming, wiping poopy butts, spit-up on the floor, picking up objects that can be hazardous to the pup, opening the patio door to let the dogs out, playing, clipping nails, prepping food, shopping for what they need, etc.... can be quite demanding for me on some days. At least I can count (sometimes!) on the rest of the family to help out because they are all old enough to be able to. Hubby and I can even go out once in a while and know the kids are doing o.k. with the dogs and all is fine. That helps! 

Good luck in your quest, Alicia! Take all the time you need, hon.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

My neighbor has a little girl, she is just going on 6 yrs now. At 2-1/2 she still wasn't speaking, not even momma and daddy. The dr. contacted the school district and they got her into an early intervention program. Within 6 mos she was speaking. Since then, they have diagnosed her as developmentally delayed by about a year, but other than that, she is fine. 

My cousin has two children with autism, 6 and 4. Because of all the special services and one-on-one they get, they are making very slow progress. 

Early intervention is key.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Lina said:


> Jan, I just wanted to tell you that it's possible that just because he needs a speech therapist that he is just fine. My fiance had to go to a speech therapist until he was 8 years old and to this day he uses words that don't exactly mean what he meant to say and his English skills are not as great as they could be. That having been said, he's incredibly intelligent and does extremely well at his job and doesn't have any problems except for the fact that he sometimes needs to think harder about what to say than I would, for example.
> 
> I hope that's the case with your grandson! :hug:


Thanks Lina, I hope you're right. Count us in with your fiance. My husband and I finish each other's sentences a lot for each other.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Our Lily is half Bichon and she is very sweet and loving. I can't speak for the breed since she isn't full Bichon, but she has no traits that would scare me away from her. 
Best of luck!

Beverly


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## monkeytam (May 7, 2007)

Just thought I would post a little update. Over thanksgiving weekend we went to South Carolina to see my inlaws, my mom and grandparents. My husband took the 2 older kids to see my grandparents dog. It went well. When the kids got back inside they said that they got to pet the dog. Both dog and kids were nice. That is good since neither of them are used to the other. My daughter will be 6 tomorrow. Time sure goes by fast. Saw some fimilar faces on myspace. All of your dogs are so cute! Hope everyone is doing well.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

Jan (and all)
My son Carter has speech therapy starting when he was 18 month old (his only sound at that point was "dah" and he was diagnosed at a 9 month speech level), until he was 3. (He also had occupational therapy at the same time for sensory issues and body strengthing/awareness).
Today he is a happy, healthy 7 1/2 year old. You would NEVER know he ever had any intervention. In fact, he is in the GATE class this year and reading at almost a 5th grade level and he's in second grade!
I too agree that early intervention is the key. I want to cringe at the parents who have the "wait and see" attitude. Kids benifit SO much from getting help early~plus they have less time to "make up". Why wait until they are years behind if you can catch them when they are only months behind???


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

monkeytam said:


> Why do havanese cost so much? I know there are reasons for it like vet cost and other things that the breeder must pay for, but really is it that expensive to have a litter of puppies? I have done tons of reading and would love to have a havanese but $1500-$2000 per dog? At that cost we will never get a dog, not any breed. I don't work, never have honestly. My husband is the only one who works, plus we have 3 kids to provide for then our other bills. We both are a bit discouraged about the prices, that I have seen in the Atlanta area, where we live. It is heartbreaking to me to read alot of nice things and then see the prices! I am sure it is not a nice thing for my husband to have to do, keep saying no to me. I am 27 years old and I have wanted a dog of my own since I was about 6 or 7 years old. I asked every stinking year in my letter to santa to please bring me a dog. I didn't even care if it wasn't at christmas! I was hoping to get one for christmas this year or after the first of the year, but nope. I am now looking into cheaper dogs. Sorry if I offended anyone, for going on and on and for not understanding....
> 
> Alicia


Alicia..there is a current posting listed "Havanese Rescue" where a woman is wanting to give her Hav away and she is having housebreaking problems..I would snatch it up in a heart beat if I could..check it out!


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