# Seeking input on the viability of having a puppy and working full time



## Calm45 (Feb 5, 2018)

Good evening.
So I'm now seriously seeking a Havanese puppy but have started to feel a little anxious about the fact that I work full time (3 out of 5 days a week), and I'm single, living alone. I do plan to get a dog walker, do the puppy socialization classes, do the walks in the morning and evening myself. I have two questions:
1. How long will I need to stay home full time for the dog to adjust? I'm very concerned about the house breaking and keep thinking the poor puppy will suffer if they are not cared for full time by someone.
2. Is it realistic to someone in my situation to get a puppy or am I insane? 
Thanks all


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Two Havanese breeders told my DH and me that they wouldn't sell us their puppies because we're gone from 6 AM to 4 PM on weekdays during the school year (we are both high school teachers). This was despite us saying that we'd get a dog walker to spend an hour with Shama mid-day. They insisted that the Havanese really needs its people more than other dogs and that the Havanese is very prone to Separation Anxiety. Finally a retired kindergarten teacher determined that we would be good Havanese parents and sold us a puppy. We had originally planned to get Shama in June and spend all summer with her before returning to our school year routine, but then we ended up getting her mid-August. At first we were disappointed by the timing, but later I read that it's actually best for a puppy to have his/her family pretty close to their regular routine from the beginning to avoid confusion later (when the family can be significantly less available to the puppy). We were concerned about the SA, so we took action from the very beginning to avoid its onset. We made comings and goings absolutely without fanfare. We ignored her for varying amounts of time before leaving her without saying goodbye, and we return home only to ignore her for varying amounts of time before greeting her calmly. I still feel a little bad just walking out on her, but I know that it's best for her, and she is really very well adjusted. She's very calm when the dog walker walks in and ignores her for a while before taking her outside to potty followed by play and attention. All this to say that with proper planning, I think you can get a sweet baby Havanese! Be sure to read these two documents:

https://www.dogstardaily.com/files/BEFORE You Get Your Puppy.pdf

https://www.dogstardaily.com/files/downloads/AFTER_You_Get_Your_Puppy.pdf

Please let us know what you decide! Good luck!


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## blevyva (Mar 31, 2016)

You can do it. Like ShamaMama, i was turned down by at least one breeder because we work full time but we got Loki almost 2 years ago and it hasn't been a problem. A trainer told me that with a puppy, if you are consistent from the beginning it is just what they know to be their reality. I stayed home a week with him. Then we had the walker come 2x a day/15 minutes each time for the first year. She now comes once a day. We walk before and after work. He barks and goes crazy when I take the trash out, but not a sound when I go to work. He knows when I pick up my purse, big bag I carry to work, etc. that I am really leaving - I give him a treat and tell him to watch the house and leave without a big deal. But always the same routine.


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## Svarner (Feb 22, 2018)

I can’t give much good advice because I’ve only had Marley for 3 months, but I can give you my experience as a working Havanese owner. I have learned so many things from this forum to help Marley. I am a teacher. I leave at 7:30 and get home at 6:00. I got Marley when she was 11 weeks old on Jan 3 and went back to school two weeks later. We had a hard 2 months. I came home each day at noon and 4:00 but Marley had pooped in her crate. So I tried the w pen with puppy pads and she would step in the poop and I had a huge mess everyday. I would have to bath her or wash her paws each day. Then this forum suggested a dog walker twice a day. That has been a miracle. Marley can’t hold it while I’m at work in the daytime over 4 hours yet, probably due to some separation anxiety. Now I walk her at 7:00am for 15 minutes. The dog walker walks her at 11:00. The dog walker comes back to let her out of the crate and play with her for 30 minutes at 2:30. I am home around 5:45. I walk her when I get home and we play fetch. She lays in the couch with me for a while at night. She’s been so great since I got the dog walker. She was always great when I was home on the weekends but the separation anxiety and potty problems was the issue while I was at work. Hopefully in August, the dog walker can just come at noon So...I believe you can work and have a Havanese if you work out the issues as they arise since puppies are hard.


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## Calm45 (Feb 5, 2018)

Svarner said:


> I can't give much good advice because I've only had Marley for 3 months, but I can give you my experience as a working Havanese owner. I have learned so many things from this forum to help Marley. I am a teacher. I leave at 7:30 and get home at 6:00. I got Marley when she was 11 weeks old on Jan 3 and went back to school two weeks later. We had a hard 2 months. I came home each day at noon and 4:00 but Marley had pooped in her crate. So I tried the w pen with puppy pads and she would step in the poop and I had a huge mess everyday. I would have to bath her or wash her paws each day. Then this forum suggested a dog walker twice a day. That has been a miracle. Marley can't hold it while I'm at work in the daytime over 4 hours yet, probably due to some separation anxiety. Now I walk her at 7:00am for 15 minutes. The dog walker walks her at 11:00. The dog walker comes back to let her out of the crate and play with her for 30 minutes at 2:30. I am home around 5:45. I walk her when I get home and we play fetch. She lays in the couch with me for a while at night. She's been so great since I got the dog walker. She was always great when I was home on the weekends but the separation anxiety and potty problems was the issue while I was at work. Hopefully in August, the dog walker can just come at noon So...I believe you can work and have a Havanese if you work out the issues as they arise since puppies are hard.


Thanks for sharing your experience. I sat down last night and thought about my schedule and I would probably end up having to do the dog walker twice a day for at least the first few months or a year. I'm so glad things have improved for you.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

You've heard from several people with full time outside the home jobs how it can work with a Havanese. It's all a matter of working out how you can/will handle it and having a reasonable plan. Having someone come in once or twice is really necessary if you are gone regularly for long periods. 

While it is possible for a dog of ANY breed to have separation anxiety, I do NOT believe that Havanese are any more prone to it than any other breed. I think a LOT of people MAKE their Havanese anxious about separation, as ShamaMama said. It is VITALLY important to start having relaxed, casual SHORT separations immediately. People who spend every moment catering to the puppy's every whim for a month or two and THEN leave them while they go to work all day are setting the dog up for problems. 

The only thing that I don't necessarily agree with that ShamaMama posted is the idea that you must ignore the dog before you leave and not tell them that you are leaving. This could backfire with some dogs if they worry that you might disappear without them knowing. You could end up with a dog who won't let you out of their site! My dogs get put in "their place" (for puppies it was an ex-pen, for my adult dogs, they get gated in my office with a litter box, water, and some toys) They get a cookie when we leave though I am sure this isn't strictly necessary.  Then we CALMLY and in an upbeat voice say, "We'll be back!" and we go. Because we have three, and it was important to use that they ALL be able to stay, either in different combinations or alone, we practiced that too. I believe that they deserve a warning that we are leaving. I don't want it to be a surprise. What you want to AVOID is any sort of "pity party". You want it to be as normal as possible.

And we do EXACTLY what Shamamama suggested upon return. Very quiet, not even paying attention to them until they are COMPLETELY quiet and relaxed. (we have one who ramps herself up when Daddy gets home, (even if I'm there!!!) and it's especially important with her!!!)

I don't leave mine alone for more than 5 hours at a stretch if at all possible. If I know ahead of time that I will need to be out longer, I make arrangements for someone to let them out in the middle. However, several years ago, my husband had a severe heart attack and ended up in a big hospital in another state for about a week. I couldn't on short notice, get someone to let the dogs out. So I left them in the office with water and their litter box (as usual) and some chews to keep them occupied. I'm sure they didn't love it, and I sure wouldn't do it to them on an n-going basis. But they were left alone for 9-10 hours a day that week, and we all survived just fine.


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## Barbara Levy (Apr 22, 2016)

Calm45 said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience. I sat down last night and thought about my schedule and I would probably end up having to do the dog walker twice a day for at least the first few months or a year. I'm so glad things have improved for you.


In our area, the dog walkers charge the same amount for 2 15 minute puppy walks as they do for a 30 minute adult walk. They consider a dog to be a puppy until they are a year old. That is why I didn't change Loki to one walk a day until he was a year old.

When I come home, he is behind the puppy gate. I usually stop and pick up the mail that is strewn all over the floor. He will sit nicely while I go through it but if I take too long he gets itchy and starts whining. I usually just ask him "Do you need to go potty" and open the back door. He will usually run a few zoomies in and out to blow off steam. Then potty.

He is a complete lap dog and wants to be right by me the rest of the night. He crawls in my lap while I watch tv, read or play on my tablet. I do hate to leave him on the weekend after being gone all week so he gets to go on lots of errands!

We have also left him with our trainer or my husband's son while we have traveled for up to a week or 10 days. He is happy when we get home but is fine while we are gone.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

You can do it!!! Many have mentioned SA, but we have never had that problem. I'm a nurse and work 12 hrs. I sleep during the day. My DH works during the day. He takes them for a walk and to the park before work. Thankfully the furkids sleep soundly until late afternoon. Scout starts pawing the bed around 4PM. When my husband comes home they RLH around the house throwing their toys around. I always find it funny they wait until he comes home to potty in the backyard. After having dinner they go to the park and for another walk. My husband says they need to be worn down. 😊 I don't know anything about training, but I think having a consistent routine helps. When Scout and Truffles were puppies I kept them in an ex-pen whenever I was unable to supervise them. Scout was potty trained within a few weeks, but Truffles took about one year. It might be helpful to have a dog walker mid day. I've been home several months and even though I'm busy doing things around the house they have stuck to their routine and sleep during the day.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Heather's said:


> I've been home several months and even though I'm busy doing things around the house they have stuck to their routine and sleep during the day.


This is an important thing for people to remember. While puppies are intermittently active during the day, adult dogs are "crepuscular" animals, which means dawn and dusk active. They adapt to our schedules and are usually happy to engage in daytime (or night time) activities if it means that they get to do fun things with us. But their normal biological rhythm IS to "sleep all day".


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> This is an important thing for people to remember. While puppies are intermittently active during the day, adult dogs are "crepuscular" animals, which means dawn and dusk active. They adapt to our schedules and are usually happy to engage in daytime (or night time) activities if it means that they get to do fun things with us. But their normal biological rhythm IS to "sleep all day".


Shama seems to get SO TIRED if we are home with her all day (like last week when we were on Spring Break). She seems restless, following us around and taking very short naps (just until we move). Sometimes we put her in her ex pen, and she just collapses, as if to say, "FINALLY I can get some serious rest!"


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> The only thing that I don't necessarily agree with that ShamaMama posted is the idea that you must ignore the dog before you leave and not tell them that you are leaving. This could backfire with some dogs if they worry that you might disappear without them knowing. You could end up with a dog who won't let you out of their site!


I feel fairly certain that we read about this idea of ignoring and then just leaving in more than one place. The idea was that you disappear for a very short while then reappear then disappear for longer then reappear, etc., etc., all the while varying the length of time you are gone and for sure inserting plenty of very short disappearances. The dog learns that no matter how long you're gone, you'll always return at some point.

That said, I feel fairly certain that I also read about people who say in an upbeat voice before leaving, "Keep an eye on the house!"

You'll see that there are many ways to raise your Havanese. You just have to find what works for you and your dog.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> And we do EXACTLY what Shamamama suggested upon return. Very quiet, not even paying attention to them until they are COMPLETELY quiet and relaxed. (we have one who ramps herself up when Daddy gets home, (even if I'm there!!!) and it's especially important with her!!!)


Panda?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Panda?


Nope! Pixel is the "Daddy Dog".


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## FutureHavMom (Oct 17, 2017)

Hello and welcome! I'm in the thick of this experience at the moment, so here's my $.02.

We got Winston in mid-March when he was 10 weeks old. My fiancee and I both work full-time jobs. I took off two weeks to help Winston adjust, but in hindsight, that adjustment was more for me. We brought Winston home on a Saturday. On Monday, we began the work-week routine, even though I was on vacation. Here's what that looks like:

1. I get up at 5:30 every morning, and I wake Winston up when I get up. I decided to do this so that he would have 2.5 hours of play time before being left alone for the day. We play for 30 minutes, then he goes into his crate while I shower, then we have breakfast, then we go for a walk (he's carried because he doesn't have all of his shots), then we play for a while longer before I leave. 

2. During the first week, I put him in his pen at 8:00 am and then went to my bedroom and hung out there until 12. At 12, I came out for 30 minutes to play with him and then put him back in the pen for the afternoon while I went back to my room.

3. During the second week, I put him in his pen at 8:00 and then left for the day. At noon, his new dog walker (whom he'd met the week before) came for a half hour of play time before putting him back in the pen for the afternoon. This is his routine four days a week. Once he is fully vaccinated, the walker will take him for a 30-minute walk in the park with two other dogs. We can't wait for this because we know a vigorous 30 minute walk will absolutely tucker him out for the afternoon. 

We do four things to help with the daytime separation. First, we leave a radio on during the day. It's a classical station with a bit of talking in between songs. Second, he gets a kong stuffed with kibble and wet food when I leave in the morning and when the dog walker leaves in the afternoon. He LOVES the wet food, but he only gets it when he's left alone. The excitement of delicious food distracts him from our departure. By the time he's finished eating, he's ready for a nap. Third, we got a Nest camera so we can see him during the day. This is more for us than for him. Fourth, we leave him in his pen, not his crate, so he has room to play. In his pen he has a bowl of water, his crate, his bed, his toys (nothing he can chew to pieces or choke on), and a patch of grass for his toilet area. We've also left two of our t-shirts in his bed so he can smell us. 

Admittedly, we might have gone a bit overboard with some of this stuff. But, like you, we desperately wanted a Havanese and were committed to making his time home alone as pleasant as possible. It still breaks my heart to leave him in the morning, but someone else on this forum noted that we go to work so we can pay for our furry friends, and that makes it all a little easier.

Good luck!!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

We're lucky in that my husband is usually home during the day, but when he's in the US (we live in Kampala, Uganda), my housekeeper is here for about 4-5 hours a day. 

Our routine is that I get up at 6, he goes out (pee), we come back in, I shower/ dress, he goes back out (poop), then it's usually hanging out for 1/2 hour - possibly some snuggle time, before it's breakfast time in his crate and I leave. My housekeeper comes 3-4 hours later and is here til around 4-5, and I usually am home between 4:30-5:00. I try not to leave him alone all day -- but there has been more than 1 occasion when I've been at work and my housekeeper has been sick so didn't come and he's home alone all day. I feel bad, but it doesn't happen often and it's not predictable. 

Perry does love his routines - but for us that's part of the problem. He knows when I'm supposed to go to work and when he's supposed to go to bed... and he even knows when it's time to go in his crate because it's Saturday morning grocery shopping time - no noise, no whining and no signs of separation anxiety at any of those times. However, when it comes to going into his crate at other times, us leaving the house, or going into his crate and us leaving if we're at a hotel or somewhere - yep, the noise starts! 

I need to figure out how to deal with him being ok when it's not routine times. So, that would be my advice - try to break up the routine sometimes so that they're ok outside of the routine.


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## Barbara Levy (Apr 22, 2016)

Melissa Brill said:


> We're lucky in that my husband is usually home during the day, but when he's in the US (we live in Kampala, Uganda), my housekeeper is here for about 4-5 hours a day.
> 
> Our routine is that I get up at 6, he goes out (pee), we come back in, I shower/ dress, he goes back out (poop), then it's usually hanging out for 1/2 hour - possibly some snuggle time, before it's breakfast time in his crate and I leave. My housekeeper comes 3-4 hours later and is here til around 4-5, and I usually am home between 4:30-5:00. I try not to leave him alone all day -- but there has been more than 1 occasion when I've been at work and my housekeeper has been sick so didn't come and he's home alone all day. I feel bad, but it doesn't happen often and it's not predictable.
> 
> ...


Our routine is like yours in the morning - Up between 5:30 and 6:00, Loki goes out to pee, he gets Angel Eyes(which he things is a treat) and I get coffee, he snoozes on the cushion behind me or in my lap while I read the paper, I go up to shower/dress - that's when he used to get breakfast but he quit eating it, then we go for a 20 minute or so walk before I leave for work. When it gets hot, we will walk earlier before I dress. I leave about 8:30, the walker comes about 12:30, and either DH or I are home by 5:30 at the latest. I look at him periodically on the nest camera we set up when he was a puppy. In the mornings he will be playing with his toys - he takes them out of the toy box and puts them by the gate in the kitchen every day - but in the afternoon he is usually asleep. A lot of times, we can sneak up on him when we come home because he is so sound asleep.

I have some of the same problem you do when leaving when it isn't work time... taking the trash out or going to get something out of the car - creates all kinds of drama. I have it worked it out if we are leaving in the car or walking to dinner though - I just go through the routine like in the morning - pick up my purse, give him a treat, tell him to watch the house, and I will be back soon all in a very matter of fact way - he seems to understand that means we are leaving.


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## Calm45 (Feb 5, 2018)

FutureHavMom said:


> Hello and welcome! I'm in the thick of this experience at the moment, so here's my $.02.
> 
> We got Winston in mid-March when he was 10 weeks old. My fiancee and I both work full-time jobs. I took off two weeks to help Winston adjust, but in hindsight, that adjustment was more for me. We brought Winston home on a Saturday. On Monday, we began the work-week routine, even though I was on vacation. Here's what that looks like:
> 
> ...


The step by step breakdown is super helpful. Thanks!

How many times do you have to get up a night to take the puppy out to potty?


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

FutureHavMom said:


> First, we leave a radio on during the day. It's a classical station with a bit of talking in between songs.


Shama listens to classical MPR while we're at work.

Fun to read about everyone's routines!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*outside of his routine*



Barbara Levy said:


> I have some of the same problem you do when leaving when it isn't work time... taking the trash out or going to get something out of the car - creates all kinds of drama. I have it worked it out if we are leaving in the car or walking to dinner though - I just go through the routine like in the morning - pick up my purse, give him a treat, tell him to watch the house, and I will be back soon all in a very matter of fact way - he seems to understand that means we are leaving.


I think I have to work on a new leaving routine because it's not just being off if I'm not leaving for work - it's even if I leave for work later than usual. He's not usually too noisy in those cases but when I'm leaving for work he goes right in his crate, leaving for saturday shopping, same thing... but if I go in late or go shopping later than usual or if the shopping is sunday, he balks at going into his crate.

He's also fine going in when it's time for dinner (I've been feeding him in his crate since he was on crate rest for his knee - and continue it because he's less likely to dump his food in his crate) and at bed time.

I think I need to work out a new routine that is the same no matter what time it is (though he always gets his breakfast when I leave... so might need to think about doing that differently too so that every leaving is the same routine regardless of time).


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## FutureHavMom (Oct 17, 2017)

Calm45 said:


> The step by step breakdown is super helpful. Thanks!
> 
> How many times do you have to get up a night to take the puppy out to potty?


The first night was rough - he was up every 20 minutes. The second night he was up every hour. Ever since the third night, he sleeps straight through. We pick up his water bowl between 7:30-8 and go to bed around 10 and get up at 5:30.


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## Barbara Levy (Apr 22, 2016)

ShamaMama said:


> Shama listens to classical MPR while we're at work.
> 
> Fun to read about everyone's routines!


I leave Animal Planet on TV for Loki. I don't think he watches though.


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## Henry&Kate (Mar 29, 2017)

> How many times do you have to get up a night to take the puppy out to potty?


People's experience seems to vary on this. And the younger the puppy, the more likely you'll be going out. Henry was 10 weeks and slept through to about 5 or 6 most nights with the occasional night needing to go out for the first few weeks. I fed him early (about 5 pm) and took his water up a few hours later.

I think it's important how you take them out during the night. To do it quietly. No talking or playing or snuggling. Just out, do the deed, and then back to bed. You don't want to reward them for getting up.

I saw a program on dogs recently and it said that dogs know when to expect us home not because of elapsed time but because of their highly developed sense of smell. When we first leave our scent is strongest and it slowly dissipates during the course of the day. Dogs learn when the scent declines to a certain point, that's when to expect us home. I don't know what we can do with this info (scent of humamma candles?) but thought it was interesting.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

My experience has been completely different, but our puppy has anxiety. Not just separation anxiety, he’s timid and fearful. Although, getting more confident every day! We had some inklings of this from the breeder, who did offer a different puppy. The thing is, we also have a son born with serious medical problems. It just felt like we would be sending a confusing message to our kids, partly because DS has been struggling with some of these issues, to change our minds about the puppy we’d been matched with because he wasn’t perfect. I still feel that was the right decision for our family, but I do wish we had lined up help right from the beginning. We received some really poor advice about how to handle crate training behaviors that made some issues worse (not from this forum, of course). 

We truly have the sweetest puppy I could ever imagine. I definitely believe that you can work and still have a puppy! I think the important thing is that you are in a position to be flexible based on your puppy’s needs. Whether that is a dog walker or a class or both or something else. For us it meant working with a trainer, which I didn’t plan to do. 

Everything I know, which admittedly isn’t a lot, leads me to believe that if you’re working with a good breeder, they’ll do the best they can to match you with a puppy with the best temperament for your lifestyle. If I could go back, I would have communicated a lot more with our breeder. I respect her, and I do think she made a good match based on the information she had. I just didn’t always ask the right questions, and I might have been more prepared if I handled that differently.


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## Calm45 (Feb 5, 2018)

Thank you everyone for the great input. I met the breeder yesterday and went over some of the challenges of raising a puppy when working full-time, and living in an apartment in the city. I feel good about been able to take care of a puppy on my own. It will be an adventure but I'm feeling confident about it.

Thanks for all your comments!


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## FutureHavMom (Oct 17, 2017)

Calm45 said:


> Thank you everyone for the great input. I met the breeder yesterday and went over some of the challenges of raising a puppy when working full-time, and living in an apartment in the city. I feel good about been able to take care of a puppy on my own. It will be an adventure but I'm feeling confident about it.
> 
> Thanks for all your comments!


What city are you in?


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## Paddington (Feb 15, 2016)

Calm45 said:


> Thank you everyone for the great input. I met the breeder yesterday and went over some of the challenges of raising a puppy when working full-time, and living in an apartment in the city. I feel good about been able to take care of a puppy on my own. It will be an adventure but I'm feeling confident about it.
> 
> Thanks for all your comments!


Make sure you book in for puppy classes with a positive trainer as soon as possible. I am sure you should be able to find some after hours or on weekends. This will help you deal with any puppy behavioural issues as and when they crop up. I think this is particularly important if you are on your own and also working to maintain your sanity. All puppies are different but it is possible that you might suffer sleep deprivation for the first couple of months...

My husband and I both work full time and Paddington was in an apartment for his first 1yr +. It is totally doable - particularly if you are willing to pay for a walker, if need be, to break up his/her day. We have a walker come Monday -Friday to take him on a group outing. This is usually scheduled for the middle of the day to break it up for him. On occasion his walk is earlier in the day particularly if it is forecast to rain or extreme heat over summer -but he seems fine on those days.

Start thinking about indoor toileting options and food puzzles.


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## wrldtravlr345 (Aug 14, 2017)

You have received some good advice. What has worked for us is that we’ve had a routine since he came home at 2 months, he’s now 11 mo. He gets a treat filled puzzle toy when we leave the house and appears to care less that we’re leaving. I also leave the tv on. I work part time so the days I work I have a dog walker come in for 2 days for half hr and on the other day I work he goes to dog daycare which he LOVES. He walks for 1.5 hours a day between my husband, walker and I so he seems quite adjusted. The kids also tire him by play and can’t say we’ve experienced SA.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*Animal planet/ nat geo*



Barbara Levy said:


> I leave Animal Planet on TV for Loki. I don't think he watches though.


Perry definitely would not find that relaxing - he thinks all the animals on TV are invading his house! Only the ones on the TV though, anything on the computer he doesn't care about - I think the size of the TV convinces him they're real, but the computer is too small to care.


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