# Tear stain opinion



## sfrt (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi all - looks like there's lots of good info in this topic and many suggestions so I won't ask for more of the same. What I'm interested is your opinions based on experience. If you look at the attached photo, you'll see our 12-week old mostly white pup has reddish staining from the eye. 
Right now I use a warm wet wash cloth in the morning and before bed at night. I can't say that this is reducing the staining but maybe it's preventing it from being worse?
I'm interested in opinions on a) how long you think this will last and b) whether the red stains will eventually go away. I love the colour of his coat and wish he didn't have this - though I get that this is normal and there are far worse things to have to deal with than this minor annoyance!
(Sorry the photo is sideways - I can't figure out why!)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Panda had some staining when she came home at 12 weeks, but I THINK hers was from nursing. I have been very religious about washing the area daily with this:






And I also put her on Angel Eyes Natural Supplement (the kind that does NOT have Tylan in it!!!):

Amazon.com: ANGELS' Eyes 120 Count Natural Chicken Formula Soft Chews for Dogs: Pet Supplies

I can't say for sure which of these is working, or whether it would have gone away anyway. But she CLEARLY has white, clean hair growing out. The stained part is still stained... I don't think there is any good way of removing that. But as long as the new hair is clean, I can wait for the stained parts to grow completely out.

My other two have black faces, so this was never an issue!


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## Raffi'sMom (Jan 25, 2016)

Raffi had these when I first got him. My vet recommended the Angel Eyes but I couldn't find any so I bought one from Martha Stewart Pets. I only used it at his weekly bath time and they went away. I still apply it now but have had no more stains. I also wipe the corners of his eyes once or twice a day as well. Your baby looks so much like mine.l:grin2:


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Leo had some tear staining off and on for his first couple years. My vet used a homeopathic remedy to treat him and the tearing and staining cleared. It's now been 6 months and we haven't had anymore issues with the tearing and staining. Find a veterinarian that is trained in homeopathy. I have used homeopathy over the past 20 years for various chronic issues. It can take a remedy a few weeks to work and often symptoms worsen for a few days to a few weeks before clearing. It took 4.5-5 weeks from the day Leo took the remedy until things cleared up.


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## sfrt (Jan 5, 2016)

Pucks104 said:


> Leo had some tear staining off and on for his first couple years. My vet used a homeopathic remedy to treat him and the tearing and staining cleared. It's now been 6 months and we haven't had anymore issues with the tearing and staining. Find a veterinarian that is trained in homeopathy. I have used homeopathy over the past 20 years for various chronic issues. It can take a remedy a few weeks to work and often symptoms worsen for a few days to a few weeks before clearing. It took 4.5-5 weeks from the day Leo took the remedy until things cleared up.


Thanks for this. We're very experienced and familiar with homeopathy for our family but for the pup unfortunately, we don't know of any vet locally with this expertise. Do you recall the name of the remedy you used?


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## sfrt (Jan 5, 2016)

Raffi'sMom said:


> Your baby looks so much like mine.l:grin2:


I was thinking the same thing! &#128512;


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

sfrt said:


> Thanks for this. We're very experienced and familiar with homeopathy for our family but for the pup unfortunately, we don't know of any vet locally with this expertise. Do you recall the name of the remedy you used?


I don't remember the remedy but will ask my vet.


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

We also use homeopathy at home but I haven't been able to find a suggested remedy for the excessive tearing. Some naturopaths say that it is a sign of an underlying imbalance in the body. I would like to hear what your vet recommended too.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

I think it is the case that a homeopathic remedy is given after a thorough homeopathic consultation. Homeopathy would look at tearing and resulting staining as an outward sign of an imbalance in the body. So that said I don't know if the homeopathic remedy my vet gave Leo would be effective for another dog. It would really depend on what was going on with that dog.


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

Pucks104 said:


> I think it is the case that a homeopathic remedy is given after a thorough homeopathic consultation. Homeopathy would look at tearing and resulting staining as an outward sign of an imbalance in the body. So that said I don't know if the homeopathic remedy my vet gave Leo would be effective for another dog. It would really depend on what was going on with that dog.


I agree that a homeopathic treatment should be specific to the individual dog but sometimes a standard remedy is given for a common condition and it would be great to have a starting place to try.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

krandall said:


> Panda had some staining when she came home at 12 weeks, but I THINK hers was from nursing. I have been very religious about washing the area daily with this:
> 
> Amazon.com : Tear Stain Remover for Dogs and Cats - Advanced Natural Formula Best for Effectively Cleaning Stains & Buildup Free of Chemicals Plus Prevents Dyed Fur - Gentle, Safe, Made in USA, 100% Guaranteed : Pet Supplies
> 
> ...


Karen, do you think these products could work for saliva staining? I don't know if tear and saliva stains are the same type of stains. I've tried all sorts of cleaning products on Willow's beard. She has some tear staining but it's really the saliva stain that is unsightly. I know Angel Eyes has been recommended to me but I was reluctant to use it as I didn't realize there was a formulation without tylosin. I wash Willow's face twice daily with a no-rinse soap product from CC. The next time we go to the groomers, I'm going to get her beard trimmed to see if it's coming in white. Sometimes I think it is and other times I don't.


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## w8in (Feb 11, 2016)

Hank has got it also! If I miss a day or two of cleaning he has gunk. I have tried "Angel Eye" wipes but not the pills. I heard they were pricy. Maby I might try and see if it works.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

So I heard back from the vet. The homeopathic remedy she gave Leo was Thuja 200c. The tearing stopped which of course eliminated any staining. So I don't know why it worked but I am very pleased with the results. 
Apparently this remedy is used to treat vaccinosis. Makes one wonder!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Pucks104 said:


> I think it is the case that a homeopathic remedy is given after a thorough homeopathic consultation. Homeopathy would look at tearing and resulting staining as an outward sign of an imbalance in the body. So that said I don't know if the homeopathic remedy my vet gave Leo would be effective for another dog. It would really depend on what was going on with that dog.


Also, remember that tear staining in puppies is not necessarily a sign of ANY kind of imbalance. It can be from nursing in little puppies, and it can be from teething. Both of these types of staining clear up all by themselves. They are from mechanical pressure on the tear ducts.

Tear staining is also more common in dogs with shorter noses and rounder eyes... something that is seen in some Havanese lines. This, again, is a structural issue, not any sort of imbalance. And no type of "treatment", homeopathic or otherwise, is going to change the dog's facial structure.

So there are a LOT of things that can cause tear staining. Things like bacterial or yeast infections can be "cured" using traditional or homeopathic approaches, and sometimes by changing food or water. Puppy stuff will go away whether you do anything or not. And certain facial structures will make tear draining a constant thing that you will have to battle, no matter what.


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

Pucks104 said:


> So I heard back from the vet. The homeopathic remedy she gave Leo was Thuja 200c. The tearing stopped which of course eliminated any staining. So I don't know why it worked but I am very pleased with the results.
> Apparently this remedy is used to treat vaccinosis. Makes one wonder!


Thank you very much for giving us this information. :smile2:
I gave our Ruby some Thuja after her Rabies vaccine.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Here's another product that some Havanese owners on this site have had success with:

*I-Stain by Thomas Labs *
I-Stain is an all natural, non-toxic supplement for cats and dogs whose eyes constantly water and stain the eye area. Fight red yeast and fur staining around the eyes, feet and mouth area. Contains no antibiotics, drugs or chemicals. I-Stain is a water-soluble supplement that is high in probiotics and other natural ingredients.

Amazon.com : I-Stain by Thomas Labs 16 oz pwd- : Pet Eye Care Supplies : Pet Supplies

Good luck!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Karen, do you think these products could work for saliva staining? I don't know if tear and saliva stains are the same type of stains. I've tried all sorts of cleaning products on Willow's beard. She has some tear staining but it's really the saliva stain that is unsightly. I know Angel Eyes has been recommended to me but I was reluctant to use it as I didn't realize there was a formulation without tylosin. I wash Willow's face twice daily with a no-rinse soap product from CC. The next time we go to the groomers, I'm going to get her beard trimmed to see if it's coming in white. Sometimes I think it is and other times I don't.


I really have no idea. Panda has a bit of staining on her beard, but I think I need to stay more on top of washing it, especially after her canned food meal in the evening. She's a little piggy! 

And I agree, if they didn't have the Tylan-free version of Angel Eyes, I wouldn't have even tried it! But the ingredient list on this is all herbal stuff, so I figured it was worth a try!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Pucks104 said:


> So I heard back from the vet. The homeopathic remedy she gave Leo was Thuja 200c. The tearing stopped which of course eliminated any staining. So I don't know why it worked but I am very pleased with the results.
> Apparently this remedy is used to treat vaccinosis. Makes one wonder!


Yes, that's what we use it for... before and after every vaccine.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Eveningpiper said:


> Thank you very much for giving us this information. :smile2:
> I gave our Ruby some Thuja after her Rabies vaccine.


Just for future information, Dr. Dodds says that Lyssin is a better choice for Rabies vaccine... Thuja for everything else.


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## PaulineMi (Feb 5, 2016)

A holistic vet seems to be the only source for Lyssin. Is that correct?


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

PaulineMi said:


> A holistic vet seems to be the only source for Lyssin. Is that correct?


I bought Lyssin via mail order from here:
Dr. Peter Dobias - Holistic Veterinarian

For Canadian members, they do ship to Canada.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Eye staining is usually caused by excessive tearing. Tylosin has basically been banned by FDA for dog use. There are some simple things you can do but like tartar on teeth, it comes down to CLEANIG . Back with an article . here's the article http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2014/11/12/pet-tear-staining.aspx Sabine has noticed a significant reduction in tear staining when dog were switched off of commercial food.


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## PaulineMi (Feb 5, 2016)

Eveningpiper said:


> I bought Lyssin via mail order from here:
> Dr. Peter Dobias - Holistic Veterinarian
> 
> For Canadian members, they do ship to Canada.


Thank you. Unfortunately it shows "Sold Out". I'll check back a few times.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Medical causes of tear staining can include:
Teething in puppies 
Poor-quality diet 
Plastic food bowls 
Ingrown eyelashes 
Infection of the eye 
Unusually large tear glands 
Unusually small tear duct openings 
Glaucoma or another eye disease 
Entropion (inverted eyelid) 
Brachycephalic syndrome 
Ear infection 
Medications 
Exposure to secondhand smoke 
Stress


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## Lisa T. (Feb 5, 2015)

davetgabby said:


> Eye staining is usually caused by excessive tearing. Tylosin has basically been banned by FDA for dog use. There are some simple things you can do but like tartar on teeth, it comes down to CLEANIG . Back with an article . here's the article Tear Staining: What Is It and What Causes It? Sabine has noticed a significant reduction in tear staining when dog were switched off of commercial food.


Dave what kind of food to you feed your beautiful hav?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

freeze dried raw


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## Lisa T. (Feb 5, 2015)

davetgabby said:


> freeze dried raw


Which one? I plan to switch Rudy's food next month and overwhelmed with the selection.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

ZiwiPeak is a good brand for air dried raw and moist (canned) raw food.


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## Lisa T. (Feb 5, 2015)

How much does Emmie eat? Right now Rudy eats 1/4 cup twice a day. Would I give him the same amount? Do you think switching to this food would help with his eyes tearing?


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

PaulineMi said:


> Thank you. Unfortunately it shows "Sold Out". I'll check back a few times.


I didn't see mention of it being sold out here:

Lyssin 200c - for rabies vaccine side effects


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Lisa T. said:


> Which one? I plan to switch Rudy's food next month and overwhelmed with the selection.


Primal - Beef, Chicken, Lamb, Turkey/Sardine
Complete Freeze-Dried Raw Diets for Pets:

Orijen - Adult Adult Dog | Orijen

Nature's Variety - Instinct Chicken, Beef, Lamb
Instinct Raw Freeze Dried for Dogs and Cats | Instinct Pet Food for Dogs and Cats


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## w8in (Feb 11, 2016)

I feed Hank a few pieces of raw freeze dried chicken or beef for a treat he loves it! I call it his crack! He absolutely loves it! He hears the bag and goes nuts!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I noticed Pure Paws has a product "Love My Eyes" for eye staining. I have never used it. Looks like the product would prevent staining if used daily.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

MarinaGirl said:


> Here's another product that some Havanese owners on this site have had success with:
> 
> *I-Stain by Thomas Labs *
> I-Stain is an all natural, non-toxic supplement for cats and dogs whose eyes constantly water and stain the eye area. Fight red yeast and fur staining around the eyes, feet and mouth area. Contains no antibiotics, drugs or chemicals. I-Stain is a water-soluble supplement that is high in probiotics and other natural ingredients.
> ...


I am currently on my second bag of this product. I really can't say that it's helped any.


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## Lisa T. (Feb 5, 2015)

davetgabby said:


> Primal - Beef, Chicken, Lamb, Turkey/Sardine
> Complete Freeze-Dried Raw Diets for Pets:
> 
> Orijen - Adult Adult Dog | Orijen
> ...


Thanks! My local pet store carries all the ones you mentioned. I guess I should introduce gradually.


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## PaulineMi (Feb 5, 2016)

Eveningpiper said:


> I didn't see mention of it being sold out here:
> 
> Lyssin 200c - for rabies vaccine side effects


When I used your link it shows up as a normal item to order then quickly flashes to "Sold out ...this product is not available".


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Lisa T. said:


> How much does Emmie eat? Right now Rudy eats 1/4 cup twice a day. Would I give him the same amount? Do you think switching to this food would help with his eyes tearing?


Dog Feeding Instructions from ZiwiPeak. And on the page for Air-Dried Dog Food, there's a feeding calculator.

When I first got Emmie she was on kibble and had a lot of tearing and beard stains. I switched her to ZiwiPeak and they improved. But every dog is different so you may or may not have the same results for Rudy. Good luck!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

PaulineMi said:


> A holistic vet seems to be the only source for Lyssin. Is that correct?


No, I bought it on line:

https://www.elixirs.com/products.cfm?productcode=S94W

It's a bit of a pain that you need to buy so much when you need so little, but to me, it's still well worth it.


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## PaulineMi (Feb 5, 2016)

krandall said:


> No, I bought it on line:
> 
> https://www.elixirs.com/products.cfm?productcode=S94W
> 
> It's a bit of a pain that you need to buy so much when you need so little, but to me, it's still well worth it.


Thank you. Yes, I agree it's worth it.

Side note...when I first clicked on the link apparently I missed the mark. A ticker factory page came up with all types of tests and methods related to pregnancy. :surprise: :grin2:


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## sfrt (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks everyone. Your advice must have had some kind of effect - though I haven't changed my twice daily washcloth/water cleaning regimen, as of yesterday he's been producing far fewer tears so all I mainly see are the dried stained area and towards the end of the day a couple longer wet strands. Really looks much better now. 

The Lyssin topic was raised somewhere along the line and I'm glad - I'll definitely use this as he's coming up on four months and will be due for his rabies shot. So, a couple questions on that:
- potency of Lyssin: should it be 30 as suggested in this thread or 200 as sold by Dr Dobias (and the potency I see references in other reviews I googled)? I don't expect a professional homeopathic opinion of course, just wondering if anyon has been given advice one way or another before I purchase. 
- rabies timing: the protocol recommended by the vet and my breeder is that he should have his final set of puppy shots at 16 weeks plus Rabies. Dr Dodds suggest 16-20 for puppy shots and 24 weeks for Rabies. For the final set of puppy shots, I'm leaning towards doing it at 16 weeks primarily because I'm anxious to start to socialize him with other animals and allow him to go outside on the ground now that spring is around the corner. For Rabies, I'd be interested in opinions on timing. I'd probably lean towards doing it 3-4 weeks after his last set of puppy shots but my main concern is appreciate thoughts on is what risk do I put my pup in? We're in Canada which I'm told is not a rabies free country. I should also mention that I think he showed some symptoms after his last set of shots (I did give Thuya right after the shot). I still can't be sure if there was swelling but I now realize his eyelids turned slightly red (because four days later I realized they were fully brown again which I hadn't noticed prior to the shots). One very slight loose stool a few hours after then mostly normal. No vomiting. One instance of rubbing face in carpet. 12 hours later a bout of biting the spot and yelping as he did so. Back to normal in about 1-2 days. 


Thanks.


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## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

I would definitely not combine the rabies with any other shots.


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## sfrt (Jan 5, 2016)

sfrt said:


> - potency of Lyssin: should it be 30 as suggested in this thread or 200 as sold by Dr Dobias (and the potency I see references in other reviews I googled)? I don't expect a professional homeopathic opinion of course, just wondering if anyone has been given advice one way or another before I purchase.


Bump ... wondering if anyone has thoughts or has received any advice on Lyssin potency before I purchase? I.E. 30 vs 200? Thanks.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Scout had some tear staining for the first year. I did use Angel Eyes before the formula changed. I only used it for one month after discussing it with the vet. The groomer had to trim the stained hairs in the corner of his eyes. It did work....He hasn't really had a problem since. Any staining shows up with light coats. I clean the corners of Scout's eyes daily. Once a month he is groomed and the corner of his eyes are trimmed. I may be wrong, but if the hair is red I think that might be yeast???


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Sissy had this when she was a puppy but we started using filtered water.

We also used Amazon.com : Top Performance ProEye Tear Stain Remover - Professional-Grade Solution for Removing Tear Stains Around Pets' Eyes, 4 oz. : Pet Eye Tear Stain Removers : Pet Supplies

I haven't had a problem in years...she is 11.


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