# Not keeping "den" clean



## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

I keep being told that dogs - all dogs - are den animals and they will not soil where they sleep. Well, Lola has soiled everywhere she has slept. She had serious regression last month, so we went back to square one ( which was 9 months ago!) and she has been tethered to me when I am home and in her crate when I leave. Her crate is the smallest wire crate made, just large enough for her to curl up in. Not even stretch out. She is in the crate because she had been in a 2'x4' expen and pooped and peed all over her bed in the pen. We have been working on holding it longer, and she has been great. We wait 20 minutes in the morning before going out, no problem. Well, today, when I was gone for 2 hours, she pooped in her crate. Right on her favorite treat and chew stick. She wasn't sick. It was normal, not runny, normal size. She sleeps in that crate every night. Likes it, jumps right in at 11pm every night, no problem. She is fed in the crate. This is her home.

I had taken her out for potty before I left - she peed, but no other action. She had 3 good poops earlier in the day and a light breakfast. She didn't want to go in the crate when I left, but by the time I left she was curled up nearly asleep. 

While she is dragging her leash around the house, she has been 100% accident free for three weeks. Always lets me know when she needs to go out. No problem there. And I don't have her attached to me all the time, but she's pretty velcro. Just dragging the tether seems to keep her in check. 

So what's up with this? :frusty: This kid is 11 months old, and was doing great until about 9.5 months.

All the threads say, back to square one, reduce space, tether. Well, there is no smaller space available! Could the "messing the den" be Separation Anxiety? For months she had been fine when left alone for a few hours. Never barked, just slept. Then several weeks ago, she was leaving a poop every day. That prompted me to reduce her space from the one room to an expen, and then down to the crate. Could she be getting really freaked out being penned in so that she has some sort of automatic elimination? 

I am tempted, when I leave, to increase her space back to the small room where she was calm before. And accept the poops (it's a concrete floor) and hope/wait for her to grow out of it. Is that crazy? 

I am up for any suggestions. :ear: Thanks, all!


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh, this is a tough one. It sounds like she poops a lot! 3 times in the morning and then again when you leave?

How long was this after she had breakfast? Are you free-feeding or schedule feeding? Scheduled feedings makes it easier for the potty training.

Also, make sure you wash her bedding with an enzymatic cleaner (like Nature's Miracle). Rinse out the bed, then saturate with the cleaner according to the directions and then wash in the machine.

Pooping in a small area seems to accompany anxiety, so you may be on the money about that. Does she freak out when you are leaving? Biologically speaking, dogs rarely ever soil their beds at night (unless they are stressed) because their metabolisms slow down when they sleep. If she is freaking out when you are gone, it could explain problems during the day.

Is it a problem to leave her in an ex-pen with a potty pad during the day when you need to leave? I'm just trying to think of what would be easier on both of you. Granted, it _can_ delay the house-breaking...


----------



## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

She does poop a lot. 1) When waking up, 2) an hour after breakfast, 3) 3 hours after breakfast, 4) 6 hours after breakfast. Then 5) only once in the evening. All that on 2/3rds cup a day. And my vet suggested I give her more food, as she could stand to gain some weight! We tested for any parasites - all negative. She has always been a speed eater. She eats every thing that I ever put down for her. I restrain her to 1 cup of kibble a day + 1 medallion. In the morning I give her 1/3 cup in a treat ball so it will take her some time to eat it. Then at night I give her the rest with all the vitamins, SeaMeal, and a little yogurt 3x a week. I think if I put down 2 cups of food she would eat it all in 3 minutes! 

I had taken away the pee pad 2 weeks ago and that has been fine. She had never peed in the house until the day of the expen freakout. She only ever used the litter or pad for pee. Wouldn't poop on it. Preferred the floor. 



Do they somehow magically become housebroken? If I can release some of her anxiety? Crazy little dogs! No lickey kisses tonight, that's for sure.


----------



## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

okay lola and posh are twins separated at birth...she's **** in her kennel two times in the last week...that's pooped censored. i'm chalking it up to too late of a feeding...human fault as usual.


----------



## Salsa's Mom (Mar 18, 2008)

Does it only happen when you're gone? If so, it sounds like it could be stress related. Maybe something happened when you were gone that scared her (some kind of loud noise or something)?

I'm wondering whether dog appeasing pheromone (D.A.P.) would help? Has anybody tried this for anxiety in their dogs. It comes in a plug-in, spray or collar. I use the plug-in cat version for my anxious kitty and I think it definitely helps - not sure about the dog version though.


----------



## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Oh do I feel for you - poop in a crate is the worst. Any chance that it's too big? If you've had success with another set up, I'd think about going back to that. Also maybe consider a grain-free kibble - like EVO or Orijen. That will cut the poop volume and I know that EVO is very high calorie and might help with the weight gain.


----------



## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

The food issue is difficult to figure out! She was on grain free NV kibble and medallions and her volume was huge. And she's an eater. Ewww. Then switching to NV Prairie with some non-wheat grain seemed to reduce the volume and didn't smell as bad. Maybe I will try another brand like EVO or even try raw, and see if I can alter the behavior from the front end!


----------



## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Keep in mind it could be the yogurt causing her to poop a lot as well. Some dogs don't do too well on dairy. I would try cutting out some of the sealmeal and vitamins as well just to get back to basics. Keep the food simple, either kibble or the medallions. Are you sure you aren't feeding too much? If she does fine, then add one of the supplements for a few weeks and see how she does. Then if she's fine, slowly add another. Definitely no easy answers. 

You could also try Innova rather than Evo, same manufacturer. 

Thing is if she's pooping in her crate, it more than likely could be separation anxiety as well. As indicated most dogs don't like to go potty where they sleep. She should be able to hold it for 2hrs no problem.


----------



## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Daniel - you do raw feeding. Didn't you say that you do unlimited free feeding when you first start them on raw? Maybe that experience would help her control her speedy intake. One time a sitter fed Lola all the kibble that was in a bag - 3x her normal volume. She, of course, wolfed it all down. And then in the morning pooped about 3 times within 5 minutes. Yowza, little girl! She can process food, this kid.


----------

