# What's wrong with Moje?



## mcad64 (Oct 5, 2015)

Hello all,
Moje is just over two, up until now he has been right as rain. About a week ago ,on our normal walks out behind in the bush, he would stop, sit, then lay down, and not want to move further. I could sometimes entice him with treats but more often than not he would want to turn around and head home. Very unusual for him. Now his dog food has not changed. But we have been know to give him meat from our leftovers. Last week it was beef, with fat on the edges. I would also say he is somewhat lethargic around the house. Stools are normal, no vomiting and he is drinking normally. 
I couldn't stand it any longer so we took him to the vet yesterday. Blood tests were negative (was checking for pancreatitis from fatty beef) stool was negative (parasites he may have ingested snacking on rabbit turds) anal glands were clear and he did not wince when she pressed along the length of his spine. Temp was normal. Paws were fine.
She sent us home with some special dog food (low in fat) and some pain meds, and told us it was gas. He has not burped or farted once in the house during all this.
He has been doing alot of the downward dog stretch which the vet said is indicative often of stomach problems and the stretching make this feel better? The laying down seems to follow a bowel movement so I guess that would be evidence of gut problems.
This also seemed to coincide with him playing with the neighbours dog who outweighs him by a good 35 pounds and she has been know to pounce with both paws on his back. I wonder if he hurt his back, and if arching to poop exacerbates the problem?
Having a dog is frustrating cuz you can't say "Where does it hurt?" Well you can , but they will just look at you with those cute little eyes and a blank stare.
Anyway, I am hoping maybe this sounds familiar to someone out there in Havanese land!
Mike


----------



## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I have no suggestions, but hope whatever this is clears up.


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Does he act normal other than the laying down outside when walking and being lethargic? On you in a climate that is hot or hotter than it has been before? Willow hates the heat and will many times just lay down under whatever shade she can find if we are walking. I would suggest not to feed table scraps, especially anything fatty. We have been known to share food with Willow but limit it to bits of fruit or vegetables. I hope it's nothing serious and Moje is back to normal soon. Keep us informed please.


----------



## mcad64 (Oct 5, 2015)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Does he act normal other than the laying down outside when walking and being lethargic? On you in a climate that is hot or hotter than it has been before? Willow hates the heat and will many times just lay down under whatever shade she can find if we are walking. I would suggest not to feed table scraps, especially anything fatty. We have been known to share food with Willow but limit it to bits of fruit or vegetables. I hope it's nothing serious and Moje is back to normal soon. Keep us informed please.


I'm in Canada so it is definitely NOT the heat!! Lesson learned about the scraps. He seems to be eating normally and bowel movements seem normal as well. His activity level is WAY down however. He is doing more of the yoga stretch thing with his back arched and toes out in front. He is on tramadol for the pain, and of course some of the side effects of that can be drowsiness!!?? Why is it kids and now dogs get sick at the most inopportune times LOL? We are hosting my family for Christmas on Saturday and my wife's for Christmas on Monday....sheesh.
If he seems worse tomorrow I may call or take him back to vet. Nice to have a vet one minute away!!
Mike


----------



## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

When Scout had his cruciate ligament problems he stopped playing with Truffles. When he got up from a laying position he would stretch his back legs out. I didn't know anything was wrong until later the ligament ruptured and he held the leg up. Remembering this when you mentioned downward dog.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Many years ago, Kodi had a bout of non-specific pain. After several weeks and several docs, we were finally referred to the person who is now our regular vet, who specializes in sports medicine and chiro. She found that he had seriously pulled a muscle in his groin. He hobbled in dragging his tail, and trotted out with his tail over his back. So if you exhaust other avenues, you might want to consider an integrative-type vet who uses alternative medicine as well as western medicine.


----------



## mcad64 (Oct 5, 2015)

Heather's said:


> When Scout had his cruciate ligament problems he stopped playing with Truffles. When he got up from a laying position he would stretch his back legs out. I didn't know anything was wrong until later the ligament ruptured and he held the leg up. Remembering this when you mentioned downward dog.


Maybe I don't know my yoga poses then. He is stretching his front legs out and arching his back. Vet said this is often indicative of a dog with a sore stomach.


----------



## mcad64 (Oct 5, 2015)

krandall said:


> Many years ago, Kodi had a bout of non-specific pain. After several weeks and several docs, we were finally referred to the person who is now our regular vet, who specializes in sports medicine and chiro. She found that he had seriously pulled a muscle in his groin. He hobbled in dragging his tail, and trotted out with his tail over his back. So if you exhaust other avenues, you might want to consider an integrative-type vet who uses alternative medicine as well as western medicine.


The odd thing is , he can go outside , run like crazy chasing a squirrel...Stop...sit ..then lay down!! Very odd!! I am starting to think it is musculoskeletal in nature.


----------



## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

After reading all of your posts, I can only think of one thing. He could be either tired, fearful or both. When Tux gets up from lying down, he always does the paws out front, butt-in-the-air stretch and he is fine. What got my attention is Moje prefers to stay near home rather than walk. You mentioned that he plays with a neighbor dog that outweighs him. Stress can come from playing with a dog that one must be on guard about. Maybe he is fearful of meeting up with the larger dog and wants to head back inside? Tux always assumes a playful position (butt in the air and hopping around like a flea out of control) when he is confronted by dogs he is not sure about. I know him well, and I see he is being playful/watchful. He was pounced on by an over zealous Bijon that outweighed him 3 to one when he was about 3 months old. Ever since then, he is not really willing to make contact with any dog. He just bounces around. He usually pulls us toward home when we walk and prefers to zip around the house for exercise. He prefers to sleep or lay up against a wall or back of a chair or under a Xmas tree rather than be exposed. He is obviously being watchful for anything that could be a threat and wants to feel safe when he closes his eyes. Tux is about Moje's age.


----------



## mcad64 (Oct 5, 2015)

Tux's Mom said:


> After reading all of your posts, I can only think of one thing. He could be either tired, fearful or both. When Tux gets up from lying down, he always does the paws out front, butt-in-the-air stretch and he is fine. What got my attention is Moje prefers to stay near home rather than walk. You mentioned that he plays with a neighbor dog that outweighs him. Stress can come from playing with a dog that one must be on guard about. Maybe he is fearful of meeting up with the larger dog and wants to head back inside? Tux always assumes a playful position (butt in the air and hopping around like a flea out of control) when he is confronted by dogs he is not sure about. I know him well, and I see he is being playful/watchful. He was pounced on by an over zealous Bijon that outweighed him 3 to one when he was about 3 months old. Ever since then, he is not really willing to make contact with any dog. He just bounces around. He usually pulls us toward home when we walk and prefers to zip around the house for exercise. He prefers to sleep or lay up against a wall or back of a chair or under a Xmas tree rather than be exposed. He is obviously being watchful for anything that could be a threat and wants to feel safe when he closes his eyes. Tux is about Moje's age.


Moje does the same thing after waking. His morning stretch as it were. But he is doing this in the middle of the day , not even after a nap.
I actually mentioned the fear thing to my wife the other day. I would have thought maybe if it was fear there may be a certain spot at which he would stop each time, due to fear. He has no method to his madness, so to speak. In fact yesterday he balked about 100 meters into the bush, we turned around and he chased one of his toys in the back yard vigorously for about 10 minutes, then stopped and laid down.
Mike


----------



## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

We had a Havanese prior to Tux for 13 years. Both dogs had boundless energy for about a year or more, but then tended to not like extended periods of exercise. They both preferred once or twice a day "run like your pants are on fire" bouts of energy for just a few minutes, and then suddenly stop and climb into our laps, or drop whatever object we were tossing far enough away that we wouldn't toss it anymore. That was the signal that this "running business was OVER". As far as going outside, both dogs reacted the same way. Once they learn that they can pull on a leash and redirect you, they will find a way to "communicate" what they want. They are more wary with age, and rightly so........survival instinct. Havanese are really smart and readily find a way to direct you. Moje may have smelled something coming from under that bush that you couldn't. Perhaps a bear peed on it, or a snake was rattling under it, or he just didn't feel like being in that area.

I think stretching is a good thing. It certainly helps me, so I would assume it's good for dogs too. 

The more I hear other's stories about Havanese behaviors the more I see amazing similarities. The first time Tux sat down in the driveway and expressed his "desire" NOT to go for a walk, I encouraged him to get up and go, but kept in mind that it was getting hot, and I wouldn't want to be walking in Florida with my fur coat on. We did a short walk and headed back to the air-conditioning. You can't let them win all the time, but you need to balance it with "maybe we can compromise".


----------



## mcad64 (Oct 5, 2015)

I'm happy to report Moje is once again right as rain!! I think it was a musculoskeletal injury of his back, stomach , intercostal muscles or in that area as a result of some rough play/ abuse from some larger dogs.
Which begs the question. Do you let your Havanese play with much larger dogs? These dogs had no malicious intent, they are just dogs being dogs. They just happen to be bigger than Moje by 40 lbs and he was exuberant and maybe did not get himself out of harms way in time!! He LOVES to play with them, but what do I do? What would you do?
Mike


----------



## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

mcad64 said:


> I'm happy to report Moje is once again right as rain!! I think it was a musculoskeletal injury of his back, stomach , intercostal muscles or in that area as a result of some rough play/ abuse from some larger dogs.
> Which begs the question. Do you let your Havanese play with much larger dogs? These dogs had no malicious intent, they are just dogs being dogs. They just happen to be bigger than Moje by 40 lbs and he was exuberant and maybe did not get himself out of harms way in time!! He LOVES to play with them, but what do I do? What would you do?
> Mike


If Moje was injured previously by "harmless" play, then I would be very hesitant to put my dog into the same situation. When Tux was about 3 months old, he was jumped on by a playful over-sized out of control Bijon who weighed about 16 pounds. It terrified Tux to the point that from then on, he has been very fearful of playful dogs.......and I can't blame him. He wasn't hurt at all, but the fear remains. There are a lot of big dogs that know how to play nicely, so I would try to find him some more compatible friends. Tux loves being around calm dogs even if they are HUGE. If Moje loves to play rough, then find dogs his size who pass the friendly test. Be safe above all.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mcad64 said:


> I'm happy to report Moje is once again right as rain!! I think it was a musculoskeletal injury of his back, stomach , intercostal muscles or in that area as a result of some rough play/ abuse from some larger dogs.
> Which begs the question. Do you let your Havanese play with much larger dogs? These dogs had no malicious intent, they are just dogs being dogs. They just happen to be bigger than Moje by 40 lbs and he was exuberant and maybe did not get himself out of harms way in time!! He LOVES to play with them, but what do I do? What would you do?
> Mike


No, I do NOT let my dogs play with older, rough dogs no matter how well intentioned. There is just too much chance of injury with such different weights/sizes. Not to say that I don't let them interact... My son's Treewalker and my brother's Bassett/Husky mix (what a cross, huh?!?!) both are WAY bigger than my guys, and they re all fine in the house together, where we do not allow any rambunctious play when everyone is together. If they re outside, like at a family barbecue, the bigger dogs are on leash or my dogs are in the house. The big ones are the world's sweetest dogs, but they get running fast and enjoy "tackle" games that are just not safe for my smaller dogs.

My guys get occasional play dates with other Havanese (although other small breed dogs of the right temperament would be fine too) and they can have their run-and wrestle fun when it's not so dangerous.


----------



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Really glad to hear Moje is feeling better. I agree with Nancy and Karen about the danger of playing with larger dogs.


----------

