# Question about the Havanese tail???



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

I have a question for some of you that attend and/or show dogs in conformation.

Do you see very many Havanese dogs with tails that don’t curl over their back? I ask because I am having trouble keeping Missy’s tail curled over her back at dog shows. She doesn’t curl her tail over her back at home very much either. She can curl it over her back and it looks beautiful….she just doesn’t do it.

I am wondering if I should continue to show her or wait until her tail matures and hopefully curls over her back more of the time. 

How important is a tail that curls over the back in judging these dogs? I love their curled tail, so it is a little frustrating for me to not be able to get her tail to curl over her back more.

Here are some pictures of Missy’s tail; one she is a puppy at the breeders, the other is a puppy with a curled tail when I brought her home, and the last one is at a show.


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Lynn, I know nothing about showing--- But I think *Missy is gorgeous!! * As you know Cash also has what I have heard some call a "lazy tail." When it is up it is a gorgeous plume. But in his relaxed state it hangs down, where as Jasper's is only down if he is scared. It is up more of the time now that he is older. I am curious to hear what others say.


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Missy does she do it when she is stressed out? Dasher's tail is fine as long as he isn't concentrating but it is really funny, if he is trying to get a toy out or the treat out of the kong, his tail will slowly unfold. Dora also puts her tail down when she is scared or overwhelmed- more of a fear in her body language.


----------



## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Both my boys' tails curl up almost all of the time. The only time I see Milo's tail down is when he's upset, and that's not often. I'd be curious to hear what others say as well.


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Her tail looks fine, Lynn. I see that she definitely has the capability of holding it correctly. The ideal tail should have more of a teacup handle shape, but some of them do stand up a bit more when moving. As her hair grows, the weight of the hair will hold the tail down some, but her tail may stand up a bit in movement all her life. It is just the way she is. Frankly, I like her tail better than Piaget's who has a tighter curl and you can't see any sunlight through his curl. Neither are ideal, but neither will get them excluded from the ring. If that is the worst thing about her, you're in great shape!


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Thanks Missy! I do think my Missy is gorgeous too


Amanda,
Missy's tail curls up when she is barking at another dog or when she steals Casper's toy or she is playing with Casper....but alot of the time it is down or straight up curled slightly at the end.


----------



## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Missy is so pretty. I don't know much about their tails, except for what the standard says. I don't know about why some curl, others don't. Maybe if you watch some videos of dog shows you will be able to figure it out. 

Kodi has a beautiful plume-type tail (except Shelby has destroyed it). It curls just right and is always up, except when he's trying to hide it from Shelby. Shelby has a very tightly curled tail that sits on her back. It is very funny to watch her try to chase her tail.


----------



## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Flag tail*

Riki has something the judge called a flag tail. It is tea-cup shaped but with a very large handle. LOL When he is feeling frisky though, it is tight and looks amazing. If we decided to show him, I think his testosterone would have kept that in check. The funny thing is that he "wags" his tail like other dogs which is so funny. Daisy's just wiggles in her curled up tail.

Many puppies have tails that aren't tight and they do get tighter with time. Riki's didn't. He is rather unusual though.


----------



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

That's the kind of tail that the Cubans like. It will come over as the hair grows but the tip of the bone structure will not touch the back which is just fine. When the Cubans talk about their dogs tails "flying in the breeze", that's what they are talking about. They think the tails tightly curled on the back are not proper (polite version).


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Thank-you Tom and Kimberly for your expertise. I was just beginning to wonder after being in a few shows now and all the other dogs have curled tails. 

It really is an eye-opener...most of the Havanese dogs, so far in the shows I have been in (Washington State) have professional handlers, so it is a little intimidating at the shows. 

They just look alot better than Missy and me:biggrin1:....but we are going to keep trying and get better and better at this.

Missy does like to "walk pretty".... so I think some day we will get it all figured.


----------



## elregalohavanese (Jun 20, 2007)

*tail*

One of our girls has a beautiful tail and can hold it over her like she should but when she is super relaxed (like at home) it is not always curled over and when we tried to show her as a pup, she disliked showing so much that she never curled her tail in the ring. We may try and show her again as she gets older. She will probably come around in the ring as she feels more comfortable with the ring experience. Susan


----------



## windfallhavs (Oct 19, 2006)

My Lacey is the same way. I tried showing her when she was a puppy and she hated it so much that she would flag her tail and almost slink around the ring. Here at home, it is always curled and she looks like a million bucks....in the ring, she looked like a black 2x4 with a handle! HAHA I really think that once your girl gets more comfortable in the ring...and a little more hair...that the situation will resolve itself. Don't worry either about the pro handlers....you keep doing what you are doing with your girl, learn the ins and outs and you will be beating them in no time! My sister had never shown a dog before and was able to owner-handle her dog into the Top 25 for Eukanuba last year....if she can do it, you can definitely do it too! I look forward to hearing about your wins!


----------



## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

How about photos of tails....all three of ours are different. Doc's curls a lot, Izzy's just lays over her back, and granddog Zoey has a plume. What exactly should it look like?


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Judy, the correct Havanese tail set arcs forward up over the back like a tea cup handle, and if it still has a puppy coat, you should be able to see light through the center. When the full plume of hair has grown, you probably wouldn't see the light through it, but you get the idea of the arc.

Lynn, I also wanted to reiterate what Diane said. Don't mind the pro handlers. Learn to handle your dog to the best of her abilities and show her assets. If you can take a handling class and get some constructive criticism from some long-time Hav breeders in your area who can watch you in the ring, it will help too.


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

windfallhavs said:


> I really think that once your girl gets more comfortable in the ring...and a little more hair...that the situation will resolve itself. Don't worry either about the pro handlers....you keep doing what you are doing with your girl, learn the ins and outs and you will be beating them in no time! My sister had never shown a dog before and was able to owner-handle her dog into the Top 25 for Eukanuba last year....if she can do it, you can definitely do it too! I look forward to hearing about your wins!


Thank You Diane,
I am really needed a little encouragement, sometimes I feel like throwing in the towel.

Missy likes the attention she gets on show days and she likes the ring.


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> Lynn, I also wanted to reiterate what Diane said. Don't mind the pro handlers. Learn to handle your dog to the best of her abilities and show her assets. If you can take a handling class and get some constructive criticism from some long-time Hav breeders in your area who can watch you in the ring, it will help too.


I am starting another handling class tonight. As far as any long-time Hav breeders in my area...there are none. I have not found any Hav breeders that have been overly helpful in teaching me.

What is helping me is my husband takes lots of pictures and videos of everything during the show and I go home and study them over and over again. The way the pro-handlers are grooming their dogs, the expressions on the judges face, how the winning dogs look, their leads they use....I study the pictures for hours.


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

This must be so fun and exciting for you Lynn!!!


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Yes, Missy I really like it. I love seeing all the Havs at the shows, although there has only about 8-11 dogs in the shows I have been in.


----------



## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Lynne - good for you for hanging in there - It can be frustrating with the PH but you'll find the good judges who don't look up the lead to award ribbons. I'm very impressed with all the studying that you do of your videos. One thing long time exhibitors have told me is to watch other breeds as well. You can learn a lot. And since you have few Havanese exhibitors, someone from another breed may be more willing to mentor you. Good luck with your beautiful girl. As long as she likes the ring and you're having fun, keep going. Her time will come.


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Could someone post photos of what the perfect tail looks like or their impression of it (I would prefer the havanese standard as that is the one I am most interested in.) 

Amanda


----------



## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Lynn said:


> Thank You Diane,
> I am really needed a little encouragement, sometimes I feel like throwing in the towel.
> 
> Missy likes the attention she gets on show days and she likes the ring.


Don't give up Lynn as long as you both enjoy it. Watch how her tail changes as she matures  The weight of the hair will pull it over her back


----------



## EstrellaVila (Nov 30, 2007)

You can do it Lynn!! Missy is adorable and I think as long as she is having fun and you are enjoying it just keep trying, be patient, and it will pay off. Her hair will grow and all it will change the way her tail looks. I practice a lot too and it is super hard, you just have to keep trying. I take Tito to two conformation classes a week and it does help. Mostly its my confidence and stress that needs work, he just likes the hot dogs.


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

ama0722 said:


> Could someone post photos of what the perfect tail looks like or their impression of it (I would prefer the havanese standard as that is the one I am most interested in.)
> 
> Amanda


Amanda, I was looking through the Havanese Gallery for you to see if I could find one, but there aren't many dogs that have a side profile with short enough hair to see. I'll keep looking later.


----------



## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

Lynn,
Don't give up! You know I was close to hiring a PH - and that's when we got our 4 pt. major. Don't give up! Just a little more time, and you'll have it down!! Missy looks great!

As Thumberlove told me when I started..."Everyone is new at one point". Even the PH had to start somewhere and were new at one time or another. As long as you and Missy are having fun, then it's all worth it. Quality fun-time with your puppy!


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Thank you all for your advice and encouragement, it is very much appreciated.

I am going to put all of it into practice....


----------



## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

I found a couple of side shots of my girls that show their tails. Someone more knowledgeable will have to critique them! My breeder said Dusty has a bit of a lazy tail (she said that when Dusty was seven months old though and in this picture, she was carrying it up) and that Indie has a nice tail set. Their tails do seem to be very different. Indie's tail is usually a little more curled than the photo shows.


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> Don't give up Lynn as long as you both enjoy it. Watch how her tail changes as she matures  The weight of the hair will pull it over her back


Just wanted to update you on Missy's tail...check this out. Jan was right, as she matured her tail, is just beautiful.

We are heading back to the show ring this fall....give it another shot.


----------



## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*She is stunning!*

Good luck in the ring!


----------



## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

Judy A said:


> How about photos of tails....all three of ours are different. Doc's curls a lot, Izzy's just lays over her back, and granddog Zoey has a plume. What exactly should it look like?


...I think tail shots should be mandatory with this thread.. 

Just sayin..

I'll try to post mine.. Capote would be easy. He's a cocky lil snot.. His tail is curled near 100% of the time. Taylor on the other hand.. her tail is almost always straight with a slight curve to it. 'fan tail' is what I've heard some of you call it. It doesn't seem like she has the confidence to let it curl. I've seen her in the back yard when she's got her guard down and isn't thinking about people around her tail just STARTS to curl over her back.. but then something will spook her or distract her and that tail will either be lowered or straight again.

:sigh: ...she's coming along slowly..but I don't think she'll ever be as confident as my ham Capote. You'd think at 7 months wasn't very long in her short lil life.. but aparently it's enough to make a good impact on her personality. She's starting to trust me more.. she comes up for petting.. she's taking the 'good' treats from me.. and today she sat for a good 30 minutes on my lap.. (I think that's cause my dad is in town and she's still wary about him here) ..but she's definately not the rambuncious hamball that capote is.. at least not when there's people around. When she's playing with Capote it's all ham all the time..

Missy's tail looks great! Glad it finally settled out for you!


----------



## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

Lynn said:


> Just wanted to update you on Missy's tail...check this out. Jan was right, as she matured her tail, is just beautiful.
> 
> We are heading back to the show ring this fall....give it another shot.


Good luck. She is very pretty. I think that girls mature later than boys. Both my girls finished in the 12-18 mos. class. That is when they really come together.


----------



## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

yeah, henry drops tail when he's not happy (because I've scolded him), otherwise he is always happy.


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Lynn- She is looking great! As to tails, I recently saw one of the top winning havanese in person that has more of a straight up tail. When it walks you can really see it and not when the handler holds the tail down. I also heard tail set is one of the easiest things to correct in breeding in the future.

Amanda


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

CapotesMom said:


> ...I think tail shots should be mandatory with this thread..
> 
> Just sayin..
> 
> :sigh: ...she's coming along slowly..but I don't think she'll ever be as confident as my ham Capote. You'd think at 7 months wasn't very long in her short lil life.. but aparently it's enough to make a good impact on her personality. She's starting to trust me more.. she comes up for petting.. she's taking the 'good' treats from me.. and today she sat for a good 30 minutes on my lap.. (I think that's cause my dad is in town and she's still wary about him here) ..but she's definately not the rambuncious hamball that capote is.. at least not when there's people around. When she's playing with Capote it's all ham all the time..


Mindy,
I can give you encouragement on this....I agree with Jennifer the girls seem to mature later. Missy really didn't start showing her personality until after her first heat (at 12 months). Then her tails started to come up more and more and now she is telling Casper what it is more often. :biggrin1:

I find the Havanese tails as interesting as the change of color in their coats.


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

ama0722 said:


> Lynn- She is looking great! As to tails, I recently saw one of the top winning havanese in person that has more of a straight up tail. When it walks you can really see it and not when the handler holds the tail down. I also heard tail set is one of the easiest things to correct in breeding in the future.
> 
> Amanda


Thanks Amanda,
Missy does look alot better than she did at 9 months, her tail is up and her coat is fuller.

People have told me also...about a top winning havanese with a straight tail, I think it was Kimberly,but everything I read in the Havanese standards says the tail curls over the back. I wonder how a dog gets to be a top winning dog with a straight up tail, must have alot of other good things going on. I would love to see a picture of this dog.


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Lynn said:


> Thanks Amanda,
> Missy does look alot better than she did at 9 months, her tail is up and her coat is fuller.
> 
> People have told me also...about a top winning havanese with a straight tail, I think it was Kimberly,but everything I read in the Havanese standards says the tail curls over the back. I wonder how a dog gets to be a top winning dog with a straight up tail, must have alot of other good things going on. I would love to see a picture of this dog.


I think I said "straighter", meaning it has the "Cuban flag" type that doesn't necessarily touch the back. It still curls over, but can be held high in movement and doesn't arc all the way over to touch. And yes, I think it is safe to assume that the dog would have other great qualities. A tail isn't necessarily one of the most important [structural] qualities.

Obviously, we can't evaluate Missy by those photos, but I daresay that she is looking mighty fabulous, Lynn! Her coat looks wonderful.


----------



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Lynn, Missy is absolutely stunning!!! and her tail!!!! it is fabulous.


----------



## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

Lynn, she's looking most gorgeous!!! Are you coming to HavFest next month???


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

CinnCinn said:


> Lynn, she's looking most gorgeous!!! Are you coming to HavFest next month???


YES!!! I am already excited for it!!! I am so excited to get to meet all the washington forum people. I hope everyone can make it.


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Missy said:


> Lynn, Missy is absolutely stunning!!! and her tail!!!! it is fabulous.


THANKS MISSY!!! WE LOVE YOU and all your support


----------



## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

Lynn, can't wait to meet you in person! The Cascade Club is growing. Have you checked out the website lately? www.cascadehavanese.org Lots of improvements.


----------



## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Yes I have, it is the first time in my hav years I have actually seen anything going on with the site.


----------



## RickR (Feb 15, 2007)

Lynn, Missy is so beautiful. Maybe we will finally met at the HavFest.
It also will be great meeting other people from Washington.
Paula


----------



## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

Lynn, isn't that great. Great group working on the board. Lots of excitement for monthly havwalks, etc...

Pauls, can't wait to mee you. Will you Havs be in Halloween costumes? LOL


----------



## RickR (Feb 15, 2007)

Looking forward to meeting you Cindy and of course all the Havs.
I don't think we will be doing the Halloween costumes!
Paula


----------

