# Has Anyone Used Eye Envy?



## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Just wondering if anyone has ever used Eye Envy for eye and mouth staining and can give a review on how well it worked. Thanks!


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## abi38 (Mar 23, 2017)

I have used them and am still using the powder.

Zelda has much more tearing from one eye. Her tear stains were never the red kind, just wetness and hair turn a darker shade of brown. I don't have any problem with her mouth staining so I did not use it for that.

Honestly I don't see much difference using Eye Envy eye wash vs other products. I was not super diligent I'll admit, only cleaning her eyes when I groom her so once a day with a missed day here and there. I even bought refills after the intro package are gone. In the beginning I was focus more or the liquid washing up and only apply the powder once in a while. I now decided the powder is better than the wash.

I stop buying the liquid at this point. I am just using Target brand saline eye rinse (it contains boric acid), but I like using the powder. I find the powder much more useful than the wash. With the powder apply liberally it soaks up the her tears and keeps the hair dry. The powder also temporarily and cosmetically lightening up the brown color.

So my current routine is at grooming time I brush everything out, dry her eyes with a tissue paper. Apply the powder very liberally with an eye shadow brush and that's it. Next grooming I'd brush out the crusted fur (from the powder soaked tear) under her eye, dry as needed and reapply powder. 1-2 a week or when I feel it is needed (like when the crust looks too bad to be brushed out) I'd use the saline solution to clean the whole area, or use no rinse facial wash for a deeper clean. The powder actually applies better on dry fur, that's why I avoid washing unless needed. Which is why I didn't use the powder well in the beginning because I was focused on washing.

That's the best approach I have found so far. I heard you can use half corn starch and half boric acid powder DIY mix, but I have not tried that since I still have lots of eye envy powder left.

Additional info: I have used dietary supplement "No Stain Fur Me". It seems to reducing tearing some so the stained hair are not as dark (because it is drier), but it does not eliminate it. I am now trying Karen's Proviable DC and it also seems to significantly reduced the amount of tears. I has only been half a month so I can't say the stains are doing away, but I'd go for anything that reduce the wetness since that's what really make her fur look dark brown. With the Proviable DC I noticed I can apply much less powder or even skip it and still have good result.

I just took this picture to show. You can see the darker fur from old stain running all the way down, but the active part from the tear is really not too bad. That's me not clean her eye for 1 or 2 days (can't remember, been busy getting my house ready for a birthday party))

The picture in my avatar was worse, I think I stopped using No Stain Fur Me at that time, and her face was freshly washed which accentuate the darker color when it is moist. I don't think I was using the powder then.


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## abi38 (Mar 23, 2017)

This is what she looks like after brushing out the crud and applying powder this evening.
I switched to Brita filtered water and Proviable DC at about the same time, so I don't know which one is making more of a different. But I am impressed at how good it looks.

P.S. in this picture you can see I am now tying hair that used to be under her eye, as you can see the streaks of discolored hair going up her head.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks for all this information. I've been using Proviable DC too, for just about 10 months or so. At first I thought it was helping a great deal but now I'm not so sure. The staining is lighter but I've been more diligent in washing her face so I don't know if that is why or if it's the Proviable.

She also gets filtered water. I have a Zerowater filter which is similar to the Brita. Plus we have a house filter on our well water.

I've been cleaning her eyes once or twice per day with a damp cosmetic pad. She seems to get goobers in the corners that I like to remove. I would like to try the power but maybe with the damp eyes it wouldn't work. I've also used over the counter human tear solutions similar to what you get at Target.

What I hate the most is the staining around her mouth. Plus she licks her feet and I see staining there but it doesn't seem as bad as it was a year ago. Maybe that's due to the Proviable DC.

I just wish there was a magic solution but I am beginning to just give up and live with the staining. I just see all the photos of these beautiful white doggie faces and I wish Willow looked like that! She doesn't care though!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

I was just on Amazon looking at the powdered Eye Envy and I see they have a product specifically for the beard. I think I might give it a try.


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## abi38 (Mar 23, 2017)

Good luck. I wouldn't know how to keep powder on the dog's beard. They always lick their muzzle. The lesson I learned is keep the fur dry and it is not always possible. I feel very lucky mine don't have stain on mouth and feet. 
Maybe add tear stain supplement also?
Willow looks great on your avatar  But I know what you mean about the discoloration, even it isn't that bad I still want it to go away


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm still using Proviable DC Jackie. I started using it last September and believe it has definitely has made a difference. About one month ago I purchase Earth Bath eye wipes and use them of Scout. They great for cleaning in the corner of the eye. I haven't ever used Pure Paws Love My Eyes, but use their other products. They also have a Bio-Enzymatic cleaner to remove stains, but the coat needs to be shampooed after the cleanser.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I've been using Proviable since last Sept. with Panda too, and there is a definite difference. She has almost no staining now. The improvement is so huge that my vet has started recommending other people with dogs with eye staining problems also try Proviable. I always clean her eyes when I groom her, but that's never more than once a day, and sometimes we skip a day here or there.


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

My dark eye discoloration on K also almost went away after two shampoos (weekly) with Bobbi Panter Stinky Dog natural shampoo. On label it describes itself as Deodorizing and Degreasing. Tear free. Says on label she created this shampoo after her own dog's eye surgery. Kosmo's staining lifted from brown to light peach color and blends in pretty well to rest of face now.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Vet Classics Tear Stain Supplement Powder is the only product we've ever used for tear staining. We haven't ever noticed bad staining around her mouth or on her paws.

http://www.vetclassics.com/index.ph..._new.tpl&pop=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

Good luck, Jackie! Shama is wild about Willow regardless of her staining!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Gosh, all you guys who have had great success with Proviable makes me eye envious! I wish I could say the same for Willow as she as been on it since about September too. I do think the staining is lighter but I don't think it's ever going away.

I'll take a look at the other products you all have mentioned too. I kind of worry about adding another supplement that's ingested since she is already on Proviable. I worry that there could be a reaction if something else is added. But I'll take a look at both the topicals and ingestibles that have been mentioned.

Thanks for all the comments.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Here is Panda last Sept., (9/19/16) around the time we started using Proviable DC, and the second shot was taken on 1/16/17, so four months later. You can see the staining is much lighter. The last two were on 4/23/17. So about 7 months later and you can see there is almost no discoloration on her face at this point. You can see there was quite a bit in Sept. Now, in Sept, she was about 11 months, and we know they tear more during teething. So it is also possible that part of the problem was teething, and she would have outgrown it anyway. But I'm not sure I want to stop giving it to her to find out for sure!!!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Wow huge difference! Willow's staining is more like the first photo. Not that it matters to me, but I'm just curious. If one is going to show a dog, do the judges deduct for staining?


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Thanks for the photos, Karen! I don't think they penalize dogs for tear staining. I was recently at a show where a dog had paws that looked that they'd been bleeding. The handler said it was just staining like tear staining. The dog also had major tear staining. I wondered why, when products to prevent such staining are available, a show dog would be stained. I didn't dare ask . . .


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Wow huge difference! Willow's staining is more like the first photo. Not that it matters to me, but I'm just curious. If one is going to show a dog, do the judges deduct for staining?


You know, if two dogs are EXACTLY the same quality, and the judge likes them EXACTLY the same otherwise, then, certainly, the one without eye staining will get the nod. but if you have a dog with better conformation with eye staining, and one with slightly worse conformation but no eye staining, the one with eye staining will still win. Panda won points the weekend that Sept. photo was taken, and ALL the points she has won were with staining. I haven't shown her in conformation since then, because we've been focusing on her sports career! 

But yes, I've even seen specials (meaning dogs who already have their breed championship) with eye staining. People who care a LOT about the staining on show dogs either bleach them or cover it with chalk. (the chalk isn't technically allowed in Havanese, but people do it all the time anyway.  )


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Thanks for the photos, Karen! I don't think they penalize dogs for tear staining. I was recently at a show where a dog had paws that looked that they'd been bleeding. The handler said it was just staining like tear staining. The dog also had major tear staining. I wondered why, when products to prevent such staining are available, a show dog would be stained. I didn't dare ask . . .


Well, the only product that RELIABLY prevents staining in pretty much all dogs is Tylan. That's an antibiotic, and it's NOT good for the dog's health to be constantly on abx without medical need. (and eye staining sure isn't a "medical need") So breeders/owners who care about their dogs often say "no" to that. You can also bleach the stains out using hydrogen peroxide. But for eye staining you have to be REALLY careful not to get it in their eyes, and you can't do it often or the hair begins to break. (which would look way worse!) So some people DO do it, but they save that "trick" for before something big, like the national specialty or Westminster. It's more common (and is actually allowed in some breeds in AKC, but not Havanese) to "chalk" the discolored area so it covers up the staining just for the show ring. There are certainly Havanese owners who do it... go to any show and look for white "rings" on grooming tables, and you'll know which dogs are chalked. They don't even hide that they are doing it.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Ricky and I visited a canine ophthalmologist last month. I asked her about eye staining. She said there has been no medical research about the subject because it is not a health issue, it is a cosmetic issue. She said that she has some anecdotal information from some of her clients but she (the Vet) coud not recommend anything other than some antibiotic that should not be used over a long term and the results would be only temporary. She did say that "Angel Eyes" (and similar products) is not recommended for any purpose.

Ricky's eye staining is very minor. We tried Proviable for 3 months and found no difference so I didn't reorder. The best thing that works for us is to wash Ricky's tear duct corners of his eyes and down below that with a damp cloth at least once a day to get all the eye boogers out. We also feed only filtered water. Works great! When we go on vacation and Ricky stays with his tias they don't do as good a job and the tear stains come back. It takes 2 or 3 months to let his fur grow out enough so we can cut out the pink colored stain. Ricky will also get staining on his beard as a result of licking with his tongue after eating. We keep his face in a "teddy bear" cut to minimize staining at his mouth. Ricky will lick and chew his front paws if he has gravel or debris between his pads. Ricky hates stuff in his pads and I don't blame him. If we let that go on too long he will develop a stain there. Consequently, we give him a foot bath as soon as we see he is licking his feet and he stops immediately. 

I don't believe that there is one solution that works for all dogs.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

I would like to elaborate a bit more about tear stains from what I learned at the ophthalmologist.

Severity of tear staining is related to (among other things like body chemistry) the amount of moisture (tears) the dog produces. The more tears the more staining, *IN GENERAL*. The amount of tears produced is generally a matter of heredity not necessarily by breed, but some breeds typically have moister eyes. The moisture of a dogs eyes is not a health issue unless the eyes are particularly dry or particularly wet and it is obvious enough that a typical pet owner will recognize a problem immediately. Those dogs that produce more tears may need to have the area of staining washed SEVERAL times a day to minimize staining. She said Ricky's eye moisture was average and therefore excellent.

I told her that sometimes we will let Ricky hang his head out the car window at slow speeds (under 25 mph) which he absolutely loves. I told her that Ricky's eyes would tear up once we got home for 24 hours or so after and get lots of eye boogers. Oh dear, I got a gentle lecture! She said NEVER let a dog hang his head out the window of a moving car. It causes drying of the eye and then promotes excessive tearing to compensate, it exposes the eye to microscopic debris that can lodge under the eyelid and elsewhere and can cause an injury, it exposes the eye to pollen which manifests into an allergic reaction, and it is just not safe. Lesson learned :fish: 
She also cautioned about taking a dog outside in excessively windy conditions especially in areas with blowing dust and debris. Just safer to stay indoors, as much as possible, on those days to avoid the possibility of an expensive visit to the Vet.

Ricky's Popi


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Popi - all good information. Willow's cleaning routine is about the same as Ricky's. I don't do the foot baths though, unless she has picked up a lot of grass or debris. She gets filtered water too. Maybe I should have her face trimmed in more of a teddy bear trim like Ricky. The new hair growth is always white but the longer it gets, the more stained it appears.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Maybe I should have her face trimmed in more of a teddy bear trim like Ricky. The new hair growth is always white but the longer it gets, the more stained it appears.


Yes, the longer it gets the more staining results. You may want to try a Teddy Bear cut on Willows face and see what you think. It is not typical Havanese but we think it looks cute. Ricky thinks Willow looks cute any way her fur is cut! He's a ladies man fur sure. :wink2: If you don't like the look, the hair will grow out after 3 or 4 months.

Ricky's Popi


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## abi38 (Mar 23, 2017)

What's a teddy bear cut? How is it different from a puppy cut? Curious mind wants to know for the day when I want to cut mine. I tried google and am still confused.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

abi38 said:


> What's a teddy bear cut? How is it different from a puppy cut? Curious mind wants to know for the day when I want to cut mine. I tried google and am still confused.


Gosh, I just don't have any appropriate pictures of Ricky right now.

A "puppy cut" generally refers to a shorter than natural cut over the whole body and a "teddy bear cut" is essentially the same thing. We prefer to cut Ricky in his natural long fur over most of his body. We like the look and the long fur keeps him cooler during the summer when it is hot. It is 96 here today.

Here are some pictures to illustrate what I am talking about. Neither dog is a picture of Ricky. I am speaking about a "teddy bear cut" to Ricky's face only.








Don't look at the whole body of this dog, just the face. The fur is cut short around his muzzle and around his eyes. Ricky is not shaved there, just cut shorter. His ear flaps are left natural. It allows us to see Ricky's beautiful expressive eyes with out the hair on his head falling over the eyes and it keeps his whiskers and beard cleaner.

We also put his paws in a "teddy bear cut."








This picture gives you a general idea but our groomer does a much nicer job and Ricky's paws are not cut this short but more like the first picture. The upper part of his leg is left long and natural but we have the groomer taper down to his paw about 2 inches above his paw and his paws look like teddy bear paws. If we left them natural, his paws would be surrounded by a 2 inch mop of fur which would always look and be dirty.

We do the teddy bear cut on his face and paws about 3 times a year but especially in November when the rainy season starts, to avoid mud and wet in the fur of his lower leg.

Everyone likes their furbaby cut a different specific way and I have never seen one I didn't love.

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Yes, the longer it gets the more staining results. You may want to try a Teddy Bear cut on Willows face and see what you think. It is not typical Havanese but we think it looks cute. Ricky thinks Willow looks cute any way her fur is cut! He's a ladies man fur sure. :wink2: If you don't like the look, the hair will grow out after 3 or 4 months.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Well, I don't think more staining RESULTS from long facial hair... That certainly isn't what I see on Panda, whose hair has never been cut. But, obviously, if you HAVE staining, there is more discoloration to see on long hair!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Gosh, I just don't have any appropriate pictures of Ricky right now.
> 
> A "puppy cut" generally refers to a shorter than natural cut over the whole body and a "teddy bear cut" is essentially the same thing. We prefer to cut Ricky in his natural long fur over most of his body. We like the look and the long fur keeps him cooler during the summer when it is hot. It is 96 here today.
> 
> ...


Yeah, these feet are more Poodle feet than "teddy bear feet". As you described, teddy bear feet are a lot "rounder" and fluffier, but not the "bell bottom" look of a natural length Havanese. I occasionally had Kodi's feet done like that when he was younger, just rounded and sculpted in so the DO look like "teddy bear feet". They ARE a lot easier to keep clean that way!!! (and very cute!) 

This is a good example of a teddy bear cut on a Shih Tzu, (from what I've been told, the cut was developed specifically for Shih Tzus and "Shih-poos") A long nosed Havanese is going to look quite a bit different with this same cut, so don't expect it to come out just like this picture, but, as Ricky shows, they still look very cute this way!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> But, obviously, if you HAVE staining, there is more discoloration to see on long hair!


Yes, that was the point I was trying to make but stated it in-artfully. The longer the facial hair under the eye, the more staining you will see has a result of flowing down the longer, as opposed to shorter, hair. Hair length has nothing to down with the amount of staining, it has to do with the visual impact of staining.

Ricky's Popi


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Well, I was kind of thinking that the longer hair has more staining as it's older hair and has been exposed to the saliva or tears more than the shorter, newer hair. I probably don't know what I'm talking about though! It just seems Willow's beard is much darker at the ends than the newer growth.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Well, I was kind of thinking that the longer hair has more staining as it's older hair and has been exposed to the saliva or tears more than the shorter, newer hair. I probably don't know what I'm talking about though! It just seems Willow's beard is much darker at the ends than the newer growth.


Jackie, I am talking abut two different kinds of staining. One type is under the eye resulting from tearing. The other is from chemicals in saliva (and not all dogs have the same chemical balance) around the mouth and, if a dog chews its feet, on the paws. This is obvious on Ricky when he chews his paws because there is debris in them. If I don't wash his paws immediately, they will have a pinkish/brownish discoloration on them a couple days later.

Regarding Willow's discoloring at the end of her whiskers being a natural occurrence, I don't know and perhaps someone with more experience can answer you. Ricky's beard does the same thing and I thought it was a result of saliva and licking around his mouth. He does eat Honest Kitchen in a semi-wet condition and it could result from food stains, I just don't know. Anyway, we have fixed 90% of the "problem" by frequent washing of the eye and mouth/beard area and keeping his face in a teddy bear cut.

Good Luck
Ricky's Popi


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