# Reputable breeder but the father is not on offa website?



## EricaP (Jan 4, 2016)

All of their other dogs are on there though. Should I be concerned that I can't find the father of our potential puppy on there? The father's birthdate is 6/2014 so he is not yet 2 years old. Could that be why? I asked and the breeder said his patellar and cardiac were tested and were fine. The hips and Legg-Calve-Perthes have not been tested yet since they are "prelimbs." . Should I still consider this puppy if the father hasn't been tested for those things???


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EricaP said:


> All of their other dogs are on there though. Should I be concerned that I can't find the father of our potential puppy on there? The father's birthdate is 6/2014 so he is not yet 2 years old. Could that be why? I asked and the breeder said his patellar and cardiac were tested and were fine. The hips and Legg-Calve-Perthes have not been tested yet since they are "prelimbs." . Should I still consider this puppy if the father hasn't been tested for those things???


The prelims should have been read, and should give you a really good idea of the conditions of the sire's hips. If you are concerned, you could ask that the xrays be sent to your vet or a vet you feel confident can read them accurately. Honestly, while the final xrays can't be taken until after the dog's second birthday, the rating rarely changes much from the prelims ("preliminary xrays") as long as those were done after 18 months.

Also, Lagg-Calve-Perthes is a hip disorder, as is dysplasia. So they both show on the same xray.


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## EricaP (Jan 4, 2016)

Thanks for that explanation! So if his patellar, heart, eyes, hips and ears are fine so far, all is good with the health screening? Are there any other tests to add to that list?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EricaP said:


> Thanks for that explanation! So if his patellar, heart, eyes, hips and ears are fine so far, all is good with the health screening? Are there any other tests to add to that list?


Some breeders also do thyroid and liver panels, and elbow xrays, but these are optional.


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## Karen Collins (Mar 21, 2013)

EricaP said:


> The hips and Legg-Calve-Perthes have not been tested yet since they are "prelimbs." .


This statement doesn't make much sense. Maybe the breeder meant the X-rays would be prelims, so she hasn't done them, but if you breed a dog under 2, its still common practice to X-ray the hips. They will be considered prelims at that point, but like Karen said anything after 18 months has a very high percentage of being accurate. You can read the accuracy stats on OFFA's website. For instance, I wanted to breed Dance before she was 2 so I had her hips done at 21 months. You can't get a CHIC number without hip eval after 2, so one day I will get her done again. But just for the paperwork. At 21 months her prelims are satisfactory for breeding.

Here's an excerpt: For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable.

If you really want this puppy, I would ask the breeder to provide test results on the sire's parents and grandparents. If there is only good and excellent behind him, then the chances are good he will be a good or excellent. Not a guarantee though.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Karen Collins said:


> This statement doesn't make much sense. Maybe the breeder meant the X-rays would be prelims, so she hasn't done them, but if you breed a dog under 2, its still common practice to X-ray the hips. They will be considered prelims at that point, but like Karen said anything after 18 months has a very high percentage of being accurate. You can read the accuracy stats on OFFA's website. For instance, I wanted to breed Dance before she was 2 so I had her hips done at 21 months. You can't get a CHIC number without hip eval after 2, so one day I will get her done again. But just for the paperwork. At 21 months her prelims are satisfactory for breeding.
> 
> Here's an excerpt: For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable.


Yes, this is exactly what happened with Pixel's dam. Pam had prelims done which were good, but Tibi was due to come into heat before she turned two. Pam didn't want to wait another 6 months to breed her, so her final hip xrays were taken after Pixel's litter. THOSE are now on file, and I think they actually were rated higher than her 18 month xrays.

Of course, a large part of the scoring with hip xrays comes down to positioning and the ability of the person taking them. You can't make bad hips look good, but you can make good hips look very bad! 

Anyone who has seen Pixel or her sisters (don't know about her brother... I'm not in touch with his family) "fly" would not be too concerned about her hips!


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