# is this normal?



## Rose (Nov 5, 2012)

hello all my name is rose. I will be picking up my baby Madona this saturday.. and i was just curious if her eye looked normal... she will be my first havanese. i have a toy poodle who is 11 so im just making sure this is normal.. thanks to all who reply!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Hello and welcome! 
Is she a purebreed hav?? To my eyes, she does not look very happy and to me doesn't look like a typical hav puppy ... the eye is worrisome, it could be just a lack of pigment or something along those lines. Have you been to the breeders house? Met the parents? seen how she lives???


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## Rose (Nov 5, 2012)

no because she is 3 hours away but she has offered many times.. to see her parents and all.. i was thinking maybe it was just her color cuz one of her sisters has that color nose with just a little black.. should i be worried?


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## Rose (Nov 5, 2012)

this is her brother when he was a few weeks old...


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## marlowe'sgirl (Jun 17, 2010)

That doesn't look typical to me; worth having a vet take a look. Is Madonna a purebred Hav and have you read the 'things to look for in a reputable breeder' sticky?


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## Rose (Nov 5, 2012)

she said she is.. it doesnt bother me and when i read info about havanese it says that it can happen if there is some chocolate in the dog and isnt a health threat.. i love her either way i was just wondering..


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

I would have an appointment set with vet as soon as you get her, have her checked out just to be on the safe side. She's cure regardless.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Madona<3 said:


> she said she is.. it doesnt bother me and when i read info about havanese it says that it can happen if there is some chocolate in the dog and isnt a health threat.. i love her either way i was just wondering..


SAYING she's a reputable breeder means nothing. Were both parents health tested? Have you SEEN the results (or the recorded results on OFA)?

If it's just missing pigment around her eye, it's not correct, but it also is not a health concern. What bothers me is that it looks like the HAIR is missing around the eye and the skin looks irritated. Typically, with dogs lacking pigment, the very edge of the eyelid will be pink, but they still have a normal amount of hair around the eye.

I know you say you love this puppy, but you haven't even MET her yet. You really love the IDEA of a puppy. It is as easy to fall in love with a well bred, healthy puppy from a reputable breeder as a poorly bred, sickly puppy from a back yard breeder. And the second can end up costing you MUCH more in vet bills (AND heart-ache!) in the long run. Buyer beware!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Oh, man! I just realized that these puppies are off Puppy Finder. This is an outlet for puppy mills and backyard breeders. NO reputable breeders sell their puppies through a site like this. I am afraid you are making a big mistake.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Havanese are supposed to have black pigment around their eyes. Like you said you love her anyway. All puppies need a loving caring home and i'm excited for you. She is also a curly coated havanese. The only thing I would say is I wouldn't pay top dollar. A good havanese from a reputable breeder costs around $1.600 . I payed $900 for my Maddie from a backyard breeder. She has issues but I love her. She probably does have some chocolate in her genetics.


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## Rose (Nov 5, 2012)

In th pictures when she was younger her nose was also light pink but has darkened up.. And yes they are off puppy find because I can't afford $2000 from a local breeder.. She does have vet papers for me so ill check that out.. And I'm hoping all is well I'm wondering if maybe the camera has a bad angle but ill "meet" her Saturday so hopefully all goes well


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## marlowe'sgirl (Jun 17, 2010)

Madona<3 said:


> In th pictures when she was younger her nose was also light pink but has darkened up.. And yes they are off puppy find because I can't afford $2000 from a local breeder.. She does have vet papers for me so ill check that out.. And I'm hoping all is well I'm wondering if maybe the camera has a bad angle but ill "meet" her Saturday so hopefully all goes well


Okay. Back-up and re-read that reputable breeders post. You may be saving money now. But a sickly dog - due to genetics or poor living conditions - will be costly and likely MUCH more costly than a well-bred from a reputable breeder. Dogs are an investment.

I have a kitten that I rescued from a shelter, $50 adoption fee. Sweetest kitten ever that came from not so great living conditions and had multiple infectious diseases. She's now cost me double my Havanese costs with vet and specialist bills. I love her and she's a fantastic cat, but she was no bargain on the financial side.

To me the choice is reputable breeder or a rescue from a shelter. Neither will be cheap, one just costs you $$ up front with some guarantees (starting from good health and proper socialization, have a good inkling of personality and behavior) and the other is a gamble ($$ for potential health issues, $$ for behavioral issues if early living conditions or genetics predispose to them). By buying a puppy on puppyfinder, you are supporting puppy mills & backyard breeders AND taking the gamble on what's basically a rescue dog.

Any dog you get (shelter, reputable breeder, whatever) needs to be seen by your own vet very soon after getting them.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

marlowe'sgirl said:


> Okay.
> 
> To me the choice is reputable breeder or a rescue from a shelter. Neither will be cheap, one just costs you $$ up front with some guarantees (starting from good health and proper socialization, have a good inkling of personality and behavior) and the other is a gamble ($$ for potential health issues, $$ for behavioral issues if early living conditions or genetics predispose to them). By buying a puppy on puppyfinder, you are supporting puppy mills & backyard breeders AND taking the gamble on what's basically a rescue dog."
> 
> Well put.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I agree with Karen. And my other thought is that the puppy is not havanese either. Looks like somekind of poodle mix. I got a lovely kitten 3 years ago from the vet. She was free, but the spay and vac cost around 400 dollars. Then this year I spent $1000 o skin infections and finally the vet recommended that I have her put down. They charge for that also. Now I have another kitten that came to the house on its own and begged my husband to bring him inside and adopt him. So far I have spent $300 on him. Do not go and buy a dog from a puppy mill. It is one thing to rescue one or feed a stray that stays around, but to throw awa money on a supposedly havanese... And the papers can be forged. Yo have no idea what you are dealing with. Sorry but my opinion.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I notice you are from Ca! Me too! Northern Ca! There are several very reputable breeders in the Sacramento/Bay Area region... message me if you are interested. They have wait lists usually, so it gives us plently of time to save up! lol

I know full well how how expensive these pups SEEM up front. I researched and saved for over a year for my hav AND we drove 10 HOURS one way to meet the pups... almost all the way to Washington. My husband was like, we could buy a HORSE for that much money!! ound:

Honestly, please listen to what the other ladies are saying, they speak from thier hearts. 
What happens when your new pup has medical issues? Most likely she will come to you with some sort of intestinal parasite as she is coming from a puppy mill AND she will PROBABLY be incredibly hard to potty train because she has probably been raised in a crate and 'taught' it's okay to poop and pee in her sleeping area because she has no other choice.
This companion dog is not a toy, not a whim, getting a Havanese should be well thought out and planned for otherwise you will have a lot of heartache...
If you plan to go ahead and get her, we are here for advice and guidance, but please take our warnings seriously.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

oh and I agree with Lucille. Most likely a poodle mix of some sort... go to some reputalbe hav breeders website and look at the pics of thier puppies and you will see the difference we are seeing.


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## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

No, that eye is not normal and it looks quite irritated. I would look elsewhere.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Madona<3 said:


> In th pictures when she was younger her nose was also light pink but has darkened up.. And yes they are off puppy find because I can't afford $2000 from a local breeder.. She does have vet papers for me so ill check that out.. And I'm hoping all is well I'm wondering if maybe the camera has a bad angle but ill "meet" her Saturday so hopefully all goes well


"Vet papers" have nothing to do with health tested parents. Many puppy mill and BYB dogs come with "vet papers". They are also often sick, in spite of the vet papers.

The purchase price of a puppy is a drop in the bucket compared to what you will pay even over the first couple of years of a puppy's life (assume you are doing what you should). If you can't afford a quality dog, get a rescue. Save money and do a good deed rather than perpetuating the breeding of inferior quality animals.

Sorry, but I can't be positive about this at all. Other people come here having already MADE the mistake, and we support them as well as we can. But in your case, we are explaining the problems with puppy mill and BYB puppies, you have the choice to change your mind, and you are choosing to go that route anyway. It's a real shame.


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## Momo means Peach (Jun 7, 2011)

My Ume's eye looks very similar to this dog's eye. I had him checked when I rescued him and he was healthy. 

That being said, I wouldn't have bought him with his eye looking the way it does. But, I would and did get him from a rescue group.


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## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

Agree with what others have said

1. looks like a poodle mix, not a havanese

2. a rescue dog would be a better choice than a puppy mill dog

3. you may think you are rescuing this puppy from a puppy mill, but what you really are doing are subjecting it's mother to another litter of puppies to replenish the supply.

4. Havanese do come up occasionally at shelters and thru rescue organizations and there are lots of poodle mixes, ****zus, maltese, etc. that are available for adoption from shelters; many come with a vet check certificate. Those dogs will be inexpensive, may already come spayed/neutered and definitely will be rescued. 

I know you have your heart set on this pup and probably are already in love with her (how could you not with that sweet face), but the right decisions are not always the easy ones to make.


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## Rose (Nov 5, 2012)

well in note of what you all have said i have decided not to get her.. i already have a poodle and if i wanted another one i would buy one lol.. and upon asking for pictures of the parents she stopped answering me.. so i am getting a registered havanese that comes with all background info from the parents and i am making the drive to meet the whole family.. thank you all for making me think twice.. i hope the little mix doesn't suffer and finds a good home though


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

You've made the correct choice! When I first inquired into the Havanese breed, I was shocked at the cost. My husband was "NO WAY!". Then we met one in real life. After that, no matter how long I had to save money and search for the "right" breeder, and then wait for the momma dog to become pregnant and have the puppies AND then wait for them to become old enough it was all worth it ten-fold. This breed is exceptional! I believe you will never regret making the choice you made. Welcome to the world of Havanese!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I hope you continue to post about your journey towards your new family member!! 
I know this must have been a hard desicion, but in the long run, I know you will be thankful you made the right choice!!


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Madona<3 said:


> well in note of what you all have said i have decided not to get her.. i already have a poodle and if i wanted another one i would buy one lol.. and upon asking for pictures of the parents she stopped answering me.. so i am getting a registered havanese that comes with all background info from the parents and i am making the drive to meet the whole family.. thank you all for making me think twice.. i hope the little mix doesn't suffer and finds a good home though


I think you've made the wise choice, too many red flags and I'd be worried about health problems. I can only imagine how hard it was to make that decision - even only from pictures the little guys can steal your heart away. Kudos to you. I know you'll find the right Havanese for you and you know that everyone on this site will be more than happy to offer advice and wisdom.


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## Rose (Nov 5, 2012)

Sofar i'm not having any luck It's very discouraging! :frusty:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Madona<3 said:


> well in note of what you all have said i have decided not to get her.. i already have a poodle and if i wanted another one i would buy one lol.. and upon asking for pictures of the parents she stopped answering me.. so i am getting a registered havanese that comes with all background info from the parents and i am making the drive to meet the whole family.. thank you all for making me think twice.. i hope the little mix doesn't suffer and finds a good home though


We are SO proud of you!!!! Isn't it funny how they have no answers when you ask informed questions? You are making the right decision.:whoo:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Madona<3 said:


> Sofar i'm not having any luck It's very discouraging! :frusty:


A lot of us found that it took a while to find the right breeder and the right puppy. For me, it was about 6 months. Other on the forum have waited a lot longer. For me, it was COMPLETELY worth it. Kodi is the perfect dog for me.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Glad you made the right choice. I agree with everything everyone else is saying. The pup looks very unhappy and unhealthy

Good luck finding the right pup from an ethical breeder.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I was pm'ing the starter of this thread and researching and found mulitple reputable breeders near her area last night for her to check out/contact... hopefully she does, I've yet to hear back from her.


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