# Worried about her weight...she's so tiny!



## sophie'smom (Jan 16, 2011)

My Sophie will be one year old next Wednesday. By all accounts she's a healthy happy girl, but she only weighs 6 pounds! I can't feel her ribs, but when I bathe her, you can really see how petite she is. She's very active and energetic, but is not a big eater. I've tried different foods and she seems to like Avoderm the best, but even that she just picks at. Should I be worried? I've never had a toy dog before - I'm used to big dogs that inhale their food and look at you for more. HELP!!!


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

:welcome: to the forum. :wave:

Your little Sophie does sound like a tiny little havanese and we do have a few little ones on the forum. With her little size, I would want to make sure that her liver function is normal. Have you done a full panel blood test on her or checked her liver enzymes? I would consider doing that just to be sure. I know that if I had a really small Hav, I would do a blood test and maybe even a BAT (bile acid test) to make sure she is ok. 

We would love to see pics of your little Sophie.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Sophie's Mom, Welcome to the forum. If Sophie were mine like Julia I would have the tests to be on the safe side. Have you called your breeder, sometimes the breeder will do a new breeding and get a couple of undersize dogs this is a real problem for the breeder if they sent that dog to a show home. Many of these dogs are healthy just undersize. Even if the breeder says they have had some undersize pups I think I would still do the tests. I hope every thing turns out fine. We need pictures, we love pictures, please don't be shy with pictures


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

I don't have any advice, but I am anxious to see your sweet girl! Welcome to the forum!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree with the others that I'd have a vet check her just to make sure there isn't an underlying health problem, but I would NOT encourage her to eat more. At her size, it is normal for her to have a small appetite... she is petite. You SHOULD be able to fell a Hav's ribs. She isn't likely to grow too much more at a year old, but you certainly don't want to end up with a fat little dog!!!


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

sophie'smom said:


> My Sophie will be one year old next Wednesday. By all accounts she's a healthy happy girl, but she only weighs 6 pounds! I can't feel her ribs, but when I bathe her, you can really see how petite she is. She's very active and energetic, but is not a big eater. I've tried different foods and she seems to like Avoderm the best, but even that she just picks at. Should I be worried? I've never had a toy dog before - I'm used to big dogs that inhale their food and look at you for more. HELP!!!


Two great suggestions above, starting with talk to your breeder. Sometimes, there are just tiny Havs because there were tiny dogs in her pedigree (ancestry). Some do have liver issues, and I might run a panel to be on the safe side, but some can be pretty tiny.

Lots of Havs are sort of "laissez-faire" eaters. They pick at their food, eat here and there. Many will very effective train their owners to feed them whatever they want! Owners get so worked up they bribe their Havs, and then the Havs demand only those goodies and won't eat the regular dog food. Stay out of the cycle! If she likes Avoderm best, or pick what YOU like best, and stick with it.

Also, if you put your thumbs on her spine and are unable to feel her ribs, that is an indication she is overweight. In which case, you sure don't have to worry about her picking at her food! If you're not sure, again, your breeder or your vet can help you with a good weight and condition for her.

Good luck with her!


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## TrishK (Nov 29, 2010)

Just as an FYI...there are also breeders out there that are breeding specifically for smaller dogs. I came across an ad on Kijiji recently where she states that her dogs are all on the smaller side; not quite classified toy, but smaller then the standard.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TrishK said:


> Just as an FYI...there are also breeders out there that are breeding specifically for smaller dogs. I came across an ad on Kijiji recently where she states that her dogs are all on the smaller side; not quite classified toy, but smaller then the standard.


Which is a very bad idea.


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## Judy -- Toby & Jaime's mo (Apr 21, 2007)

I would love to have a easy swoop pick up Havanese. My smallest is about 8.5# and she is SO much easier to pick up than my other two 11-12# Havanese. My husband just cannot understand how it can be so much easier, but I am a petite woman with short arms and it really makes a difference.

I did not want a tinsy little dog, but small and compact and that is what my 8.5# dog is. All my dogs will eat anything any where -- so I do watch their diet to keep them at just the right weight for their frames. It sounds like your dog's weight is right for her frame, so I would not worry. The comments about the blood tests are probably a good idea and I would not have know about that except through the Forum.

There is a breeder that advertises minis, and teensie etc. -- which do not even exist for the Havanese (and she charges a lot of money for the pups). She also has a lot of Havanese puppies, so . . . . .

http://www.wheatstate.com/~denson/index.htm

Would love to see a picture of your Sophie.


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

Sophie, what a lovely name 

She sounds healthy especially that you can't feel any ribs poking out. Unfortunately, more Havs are finicky than not. Also, not all Havanese stop growing at a year of age. Growth rate depends on their lineage. Some will be fully mature at 8 months while others it will 18 months before they fully mature. 


Perhaps she got hit by a shrinking gene?
We have a little one too and just turned a year as of 1/11. Both her parents weigh about 13 lbs yet she is only 5 lbs. We definitely didn't set out to breed for that it just happened that she got hit by the shrinking gene from both sides of her pedigree.


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Hi, and welcome!!! I wouldn't be overly worried. My Cocotini weighed about 7 pounds at 1 year old. She was a very finicky eater,too. Somedays she didn't really want to eat,too. She was not underweight,either. I did have the blood tests done and did do a BAT to check liver functions for my own piece of mind. Cocotini is very healthy!! Now at 3 years old-she is 8.5 pounds- she really filled out a lot between 1 and 1/2 years old and 2 and 1/2. Your little girl may do the same. I guess if I were you I'd run the tests just to give you piece of mind,too.!!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

:cheer2: Please please post pictures of your little ones 5and 6lbs :cheer2:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

rdanielle said:


> Sophie, what a lovely name
> 
> She sounds healthy especially that you can't feel any ribs poking out. Unfortunately, more Havs are finicky than not. Also, not all Havanese stop growing at a year of age. Growth rate depends on their lineage. Some will be fully mature at 8 months while others it will 18 months before they fully mature.
> 
> ...


 The shrinking gene, yes I'm sure it happens! 
According to the women on her web site she would sell your 5lb Havanese anyware $3,500 to $5,000 dollors .


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Having a small puppy as result of something that is back in its gene pool is one thing. Breeding puppies to be small is wrong on so many ways. Good breeders are trying to breed to the standard in order to better the breed and to have the best of the best. Small puppies can be a problem for breeders, if they send that puppy to a show home and it is too small to be shown, they replace it. Many problems can come up when people are just breeding small puppies for a price point.
An example of a dog that has been bred down with disastrous results is the Shih Tzu, there are breeders breeding what they call Imperial Shih Tzu's these dogs are not recognized by the AKC and can not be shown...what is worse is some of these are genetic nightmares. Why, one reason is Shih Tzu's can suffer from Dwarfism only some BB don't even recognize this and keep breeding!!!! Some of them brag they have 'Lion Headed' Shih Tzu's!!! A woman I know had one and it only lived 3yrs because of related problems..she thought the vet was making fun of her dog when he said "You have a dwarf". Breeding dogs down has consequences and is very different then a dog producing a small puppy or two.


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## sashamom (Jan 12, 2009)

sophie'smom said:


> My Sophie will be one year old next Wednesday. By all accounts she's a healthy happy girl, but she only weighs 6 pounds! I can't feel her ribs, but when I bathe her, you can really see how petite she is. She's very active and energetic, but is not a big eater. I've tried different foods and she seems to like Avoderm the best, but even that she just picks at. Should I be worried? I've never had a toy dog before - I'm used to big dogs that inhale their food and look at you for more. HELP!!!


My hav is also on the small side, she is about 6 1/2 lbs and will be seven this year. She is healthy and certainly gets plenty to eat. I will have to watch her weight until we find a new agility facility. LOL I would do the tests if you are concerned but it is not uncommon to find smaller sizes. I would have preferred a little bigger size but she was the smallest in the litter and it certainly has not been a health issue so far. Linda


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

sashamom said:


> My hav is also on the small side, she is about 6 1/2 lbs and will be seven this year. She is healthy and certainly gets plenty to eat. I will have to watch her weight until we find a new agility facility. LOL I would do the tests if you are concerned but it is not uncommon to find smaller sizes. I would have preferred a little bigger size but she was the smallest in the litter and it certainly has not been a health issue so far. Linda


Sometimes someone buys a puppy from a breeder who is consistently breeding to the standard and that puppy happens to be small, either be cause it was the runt of the litter or just because it ends up being unusually small. Kodi went in the other direction... His parents are both perfectly normal sized Havs, his sire around 11 lbs, his dam around 12 lbs. He ended up 16 1/2 lbs at fighting weight. He just BARELY makes it within the breed standard for height at 11 1/4". Sometimes it just happens.

That's a completely different issue than those "breeders" (and I use that term lightly) who are purposely breeding away from the standard to produce a dog outside the norms for the breed.

But in either case, with the real little ones, especially if they are young, it probably makes sense to do a thorough health check just to make sure that their growth has not been stunted by an underlying liver or heart problem. They are PROBABLY just little, but it's better to know ahead of time so that any potential health problem can be managed as well as possible.


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## Beanie (Aug 30, 2009)

I say "not to worry". My Beanie was a little over 6lbs at a year and now at 18 months is 8 lbs. She had a smaller dam & sire. In fact, Havanese used to be toy dogs...but now, they are being bred larger because larger dams may throw more puppies (hence, hate to say this, more profit). I like the smaller size. Beanie is a solid little dog; she started putting on muscle just shortly after she hit one year. I love the fact that I can scoop her up with one hand (still). She will probably not get any larger than 8 lbs.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

The Havanese standard is 8 1/2 inches to 11 1/2 inches, the ideal being 9 1/2 inches to 10 1/2 inches. There is no weight standard but you usually add one pound to the height in inches. In other words, a 8 1/2 inch hav would be about 9.5 lbs and a 11 1/2 inch hav would be about 12.5 lbs. Havanese are suppose to be sturdy little dogs and naturally the heavier boned they are would make them weigh more.
That being said, I have an 8.5 hav and a 21 lb hav. Both are very healthy and both continued to gain weight up to about 3 years old. I also have two at about 11-12 lbs.
It is advisable to do blood tests on tiny havs because it is sometimes, although not often, an indicator of liver concerns. I had my littlest one tested for bile acids to be safe.
GOOD breeders breed to the STANDARD! Naturally, with all good intentions, that isn't always accomplished. Hopefully Havanese lovers will not intentionally support breeders who are trying to breed tea-cups. If a tea-cup is desired, perhaps a Maltese or Yorkie would be a better choice.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Have you guys looked at the breeders web page? Its in a few posts back. She does not state that she health tests. Although she really thinks the original Havanese were much smaller. She thinks this because the wealthy women in Havana would hid them in their skirts their for she thinks they must have been smaller. Any way to each their own.:ranger:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Suzi said:


> Have you guys looked at the breeders web page? Its in a few posts back. She does not state that she health tests. Although she really thinks the original Havanese were much smaller. She thinks this because the wealthy women in Havana would hid them in their skirts their for she thinks they must have been smaller. Any way to each their own.:ranger:


 To add to that the Maltese was part of the Havanese gens correct me if I am wrong.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> Have you guys looked at the breeders web page? Its in a few posts back. She does not state that she health tests. Although she really thinks the original Havanese were much smaller. She thinks this because the wealthy women in Havana would hid them in their skirts their for she thinks they must have been smaller. Any way to each their own.:ranger:


If breeders are not breeding TO THE STANDARD, what is the point of having one? I don't believe that the Havanese standard, at any time, called for the exceptionally small dogs some "breeders" are producing just to get more money out of the unsuspecting public.


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> If breeders are not breeding TO THE STANDARD, what is the point of having one? I don't believe that the Havanese standard, at any time, called for the exceptionally small dogs some "breeders" are producing just to get more money out of the unsuspecting public.


The number of Havs this particular breeder has for sale is very worrisome. I would be worried that this is a business where quantity might trump quality. I get the whole desire for tiny designer dogs but the effects of breeding dogs with "unfavorable" genes can be disasterous. I have a neighbor who purchased a tiny teacup Maltese, supposedto be around 3lbs full grown. That poor dog looks like it scraped the bottom of the gene pool. It just doesn't look "right".


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Suzi said:


> Have you guys looked at the breeders web page? Its in a few posts back. She does not state that she health tests. Although she really thinks the original Havanese were much smaller. She thinks this because the wealthy women in Havana would hid them in their skirts their for she thinks they must have been smaller. Any way to each their own.:ranger:


I've looked at this website and unfortunately some years back we had a couple of member who bought puppies from her. One of the puppies was a tiny, failed to thrive and eventually died. I am not sure what happened to the other one. Please, please, please stay away from her and her dogs.  I wish I was better at searching so I could bring up that thread.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I don't think the original poster ever said where her little Sophie is from, did she?


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

I don't think she did. My comment was strictly about the link to mini havanese breeder posted a page or two earlier.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Our Abby was 7.3 lbs. when we got her at 8 mos. and then a year later was still 7.3 lbs.! She has a fairly small frame compared to most Havanese and our vet said she is healthy but a little on the slender side. Now, at 3 1/2 yrs. of age she is in the 8 - 8 1/2 lb. range. I think some seem to fill out slower than others. Abby's coat has also finally started to fill out nicely after all this time!

Just wanted to share that some are a little smaller than others!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Kathie said:


> Our Abby was 7.3 lbs. when we got her at 8 mos. and then a year later was still 7.3 lbs.! She has a fairly small frame compared to most Havanese and our vet said she is healthy but a little on the slender side. Now, at 3 1/2 yrs. of age she is in the 8 - 8 1/2 lb. range. I think some seem to fill out slower than others. Abby's coat has also finally started to fill out nicely after all this time!
> 
> Just wanted to share that some are a little smaller than others!


 Abby sounds like Maddie She is still under 8lb I hope Maddies coat fills out like hers has! Did she ever Blow her coat? Maddie is very easy to comb she does not get mats any more.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Abby does get mats but not that many and she is also really easy to comb. I only comb her once a week, though. And yes, she definitely blew her coat - just at the time we got her and it really freaked me out thinking she was always going to be that way! I did not find the forum until later so I didn't even know what blowing coat was!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Kathie said:


> Abby does get mats but not that many and she is also really easy to comb. I only comb her once a week, though. And yes, she definitely blew her coat - just at the time we got her and it really freaked me out thinking she was always going to be that way! I did not find the forum until later so I didn't even know what blowing coat was!


 How old was she when you got her?


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

8 mos.


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## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

How is a dog measured? 8.5 inches seems so small if they are measured from nose to tail. Or is it neck to tail?


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

It is measured at the withers (shoulder) to floor.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Jack is hefty. I think he measures about 10.5 inches but weighs 13 lbs. I am not worried because you can feel every rib. He is only 6 months. I suspect he would be taller if his front legs weren't so bowed.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> Jack is hefty. I think he measures about 10.5 inches but weighs 13 lbs. I am not worried because you can feel every rib. He is only 6 months. I suspect he would be taller if his front legs weren't so bowed.


Poor little guy! Well, I guess it will just give him a rolling sailor's gait to go along with his "Jack Sparrow" costume, right?


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

ound:


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

ound:ound:


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