# Is all this growling and biting okay?



## bellasmom (Oct 20, 2010)

Bella is 10 weeks now, we have had her for 2 weeks. 

For 2 days she has been growling like crazy and biting. Not the puppy biting she was doing when we held her before, but growling like she's mad and lunging. She does this alot during the day and sometimes even when I take her out of her ex pen to play. I don't take her out until she comes to the edge of the pen, tail wagging and then she might play for a minute or two before she starts growling, biting my feet, pants legs, etc. When I go to pick her up to put her back in the pen (from all the advice from previous posts here) she growls and lunges. Even in her pen alone she has been growling and biting hard on her toys.

Other times when I try to pet her, she backs away from me. She had been coming when called a few days ago and now she just stares at me ready to lunge or just slowly backs away.

I've tried different things I read here but nothing is really working. Is this just a puppy thing that has to resolve itself or do I have an agressive puppy girl on my hands?


----------



## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

Could she not be feeling well?


----------



## bellasmom (Oct 20, 2010)

She seems okay except for this. She's eating and drinking normally and peeing and pooping normally. She comes for treats for when she goes potty, etc. This new growling behavior is not 24 hours a day but it happens enough during the day that it's making me wonder.


----------



## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

It's interesting that she just started doing this. Did anything happen to scare her?

Hopefully someone who's had experience with this will be able to offer some good advice. It might be a good idea to talk to a trainer, I think that's the type of thing you want to get help with.


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Have you tried throwing a sm tennis ball? I think you pup just has a lot of energy and wants to play. sometimes I put on ski gloves and let Maddie go to town pulling biting tugging at last I did not get hurt You still want to show them you are boss try to roll your pup on his back while playing . I'm am not a expert but it has gotten me threw some play times.


----------



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

It's hard to tell the exact tone just from a written description. It may just be normal play. At that age she would be playing like that with her littermates as normal play. Also between 8 and 10 weeks they get taught the limits and their manners by their Mom.

It might be a good idea to get some experienced help hands on. This is the kind of thing it's at least a good idea to talk with the breeder about on the phone.


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Its hard to say if it is play or aggression, and if she is scared of you (?) that could certainly be a problem. I would talk to the breeder and maybe a trainer if I could, I'd certainly enroll her in puppy preschool for the socialization when she's ready and her shots are all done.

I know when gucci was a puppy she'd growl and attack some toys, but not @ me, or the family, so I never really thought it was much more than her trying to be the boss of her xpen and toybox, she still beats up a few toys and has gotten really good banging her snuggle bear into the floor and flinging him across the room before she goes and loves on him,......lol

I wish I had an idea or advice~
Kara


----------



## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

It sounds like she is trying to play!


----------



## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

If it's just a growling noise it's probably just play. If she's showing her teeth then it could be aggression.Sophie growls when she's playing and gets really excited, mostly with her toys.


----------



## Bramble's Mummy (Mar 4, 2010)

I have a similar problem with my 11 week little girl! It's worrying isn't it? Poppy growls and bites in an aggressive manner when we remove her from a 'naughty situation' (and sometimes for an unexplained reason) and it most definitely isn't the fun growling she does when she is playing (although that sounds pretty ferocious at times!!). Most of the time she is a laid back sweetie!!

Our previous Hav never did this, and I'm really worried. Is it something that can be trained? Poppy is booked into puppy classes, but unfortunately the training centre that is recommended doesn't start until February.

Its good to meet someone with a similar situation!


----------



## bellasmom (Oct 20, 2010)

Okay, this morning when I came down she was jumping around and happy to see me. I picked her up from her ex pen and there was no problem. 

When I got back from dropping my daughter off at school, I picked her up again and she was okay and even sat nicely in my lap for awhile while I pet her. 

Then I carried her back into the kitchen and put her down on the floor so she could run around a bit while I made coffee, etc. She was good for a few minutes and then started growling and biting my feet. I got her rope toy and gave her that and she played with it for a few minutes and then dropped it and started growling again going for my feet. I told her to sit which she did and then said good girl and went to pat her head and she backed up from me. I called her to come and she lunged, but no biting. Then she got up, started growling again and started biting my toes - hard. I picked her up (she was growling the whole time and shaking her head back and forth) said "no bite" and put her back in the ex pen. She went right into her crate (I keep the door open) and just sat there. 

A little while later I was going to try again and stuck my arm in to pet her head (talking to her first in a regular voice) and she lifts her head so I can't pet it and opens her mouth to bite me. Now every time I try to pet her head she lifts it so I can't pet her. Sometimes she growls. 

The vet said she couldn't go out in public around other dogs until she's 4 or 5 months (she said to wait a while after the shot at 3 months) so it will be a while before a puppy class. I can try calling the breeder but pretty sure she won't be much help. She has not been a wealth of information thus far. She did tell me that Bella was "quiet" and "on the shy side" which she definitely isn't. So far she has socialized beautifully with anyone who comes to the house.

I hope it's just normal puppy behavior but trying so hard to do the training right and don't want to mess up and have an agressive dog on my hands.

Thanks for listening...
P.S. If she was afraid of me wouldn't she always be afraid or would she still let me hold her sometimes and growl and bite other times?


----------



## bellasmom (Oct 20, 2010)

Bramble's Mummy said:


> I have a similar problem with my 11 week little girl! It's worrying isn't it? Poppy growls and bites in an aggressive manner when we remove her from a 'naughty situation' (and sometimes for an unexplained reason) and it most definitely isn't the fun growling she does when she is playing (although that sounds pretty ferocious at times!!). Most of the time she is a laid back sweetie!!
> 
> Our previous Hav never did this, and I'm really worried. Is it something that can be trained? Poppy is booked into puppy classes, but unfortunately the training centre that is recommended doesn't start until February.
> 
> Its good to meet someone with a similar situation!


Hi Bramble's Mummy. Yes, it is good to meet someone with a similar situation. I have only had her 2 weeks and feel like a puppy training failure! And then when I read to find a solution, the information is conflicting and confusing. Hopefully our friends here can help us figure it out and I'm sure the puppy classes will help. I don't know if I can start mine until March, though. Where do you live? Are you going to a Petco kind of place or is it a private training center?


----------



## DorothyS (Aug 11, 2009)

First of all, I would definitely not wait 4 or 5 months for puppy classes. Read Dr. Ian Dunbar - he talks about the importance of early socialization. Vets always err on the side of extreme caution with shots, etc. but in the meantime, your puppy's social needs are being neglected. It sounds to me like normal play aggression, but she needs to learn her limits. Again, read some good books like Dr. Dunbar's, or Patricia B. McConnell to help you understand better what is happening and how to deal with it.

In our own experience, when Pixie was about the same age as your pup, she went through a stage of growling everytime we picked her up or moved her for some reason. Our trainer told us to use treats - give a treat, pick up, put down. Repeat 10 times. Do it again later that day. Then, change it to pick up, give treat, put down. See the progression? It took very little time (a couple of days) before Pixie was eagerly anticipating being picked up and there were no more growls. Now she only growls at Rascal, and he usually deserves it!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

bellasmom said:


> The vet said she couldn't go out in public around other dogs until she's 4 or 5 months (she said to wait a while after the shot at 3 months) so it will be a while before a puppy class. I can try calling the breeder but pretty sure she won't be much help. She has not been a wealth of information thus far. She did tell me that Bella was "quiet" and "on the shy side" which she definitely isn't. So far she has socialized beautifully with anyone who comes to the house.
> 
> I hope it's just normal puppy behavior but trying so hard to do the training right and don't want to mess up and have an agressive dog on my hands.
> 
> ...


I'd be looking for a new vet, first off. It's ridiculous to hold off on socializing ANY puppy until it's 4 or 5 months old... let alone one that you are worried might have aggressive and/or fearful tendencies.

Of course it's important to keep our little ones safe and healthy, but if it's at the cost of ending up with a dog that's not a happy, well balanced, TRUSTED member of the family, what's the point?

At VEry least, I'd get a trainer to come to the house to help you with her one-on-one. But I think she REALLY needs the socialization of group puppy classes. At a lot of training centers, dogs over 5 or 6 months aren't even ALLOWED in the puppy classes.


----------



## miko (May 28, 2008)

If possible, can you record the behavior and post a video? Have you tried playing with her with the toys instead of giving her toys to play by herself?


----------



## bellasmom (Oct 20, 2010)

Some great suggestions here. Yes, I have tried playing with her toys with her. She would rather bite my fingers than her toy but we have had a little bit of success.

A little while ago she threw up a little bit - mostly 2 soft puppy treats with a little liquid came out (sorry, gross). I wonder if I gave her too many training treats while trying to work with her. 

I should also mention she growls (and sometimes barks) at her pee pad and sometimes her toys while she's biting them. It's not only me.


----------



## bellasmom (Oct 20, 2010)

krandall said:


> I'd be looking for a new vet, first off. It's ridiculous to hold off on socializing ANY puppy until it's 4 or 5 months old... let alone one that you are worried might have aggressive and/or fearful tendencies.
> 
> Of course it's important to keep our little ones safe and healthy, but if it's at the cost of ending up with a dog that's not a happy, well balanced, TRUSTED member of the family, what's the point?
> 
> At VEry least, I'd get a trainer to come to the house to help you with her one-on-one. But I think she REALLY needs the socialization of group puppy classes. At a lot of training centers, dogs over 5 or 6 months aren't even ALLOWED in the puppy classes.


I was thinking that was a bit old, too. We didn't specifically discuss puppy classes when I was at the vet because at that point I had only had Bella for 2 days. I asked about taking her out for walks on the sidewalk, etc. after she has her shots at 3 months and she said no, wait another month or 2 after that for the effectiveness of the vaccinations. I believe she even said before going to a store like Petco where there are other dogs. I'll have to clarify with her about puppy classes.


----------



## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Jack started puppy classses as soon as we got him - right around 11 weeks. It is okay to go. Just double-check with the school.

Do you do the puppy yip when she bites you? Next time she bites, give a high-pitched YIP and turn away from her! That is puppy talk for "that hurts and I don't want to play if you do that." Usually they stop, back off and give you that puzzled head tilt. Then they follow up with an apology lick.


----------



## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

The nipping at the pant legs and toes was defininitely something we had with Kipling - very annoying..and sometimes he seemed pretty assertive but we didn't know much about puppies/dogs at the time so it was a bit more intimidating as a result. We did the high pitched yip and DD who was 8 needed to fold her arms and cease playing. Sometimes I even stepped between them - firmly but not scary to Kipling. He learned very quickly - could be just a puppy thing ... but... the lunging is what I'd wonder about and the retreating to the crate. One thing our puppy trainer was very clear about was that fear in puppies isn't something to be ignored and could lead to bigger issues...so if it's fear...then professional help would be a good idea.

I'd suggest at the very least, have someone come in once to assess the behaviour and give you some perspective.


----------



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I've read all your posts, and I'm still not clear on whether it's just normal puppy behavior or not. I haven't read anything that really alarms me about her behavior yet. If you were anywhere near us, I'd invite you to bring her here, but I have no idea where you live.


----------



## bellasmom (Oct 20, 2010)

Tom King said:


> I've read all your posts, and I'm still not clear on whether it's just normal puppy behavior or not. I haven't read anything that really alarms me about her behavior yet. If you were anywhere near us, I'd invite you to bring her here, but I have no idea where you live.


Thanks, Tom. I'm glad it's not just me who's not clear on whether it's normal puppy behavior or not. She will definitely sit quietly in my lap at times so not sure why she sometimes will growl and bite. She often goes for the curved spot where my thumb connects to my pointer finger. A nice fleshy area where the bite really hurts :-(

Unfortunately I'm in New York (Long Island) or othewise I would take you up on your offer!


----------



## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

I don't know for sure, but it sounds as if maybe she gets a little bored,and loves playing with her Mum, but is also missing the rough play she would get with her litter mates,perhaps she needs you to play with her but at the same time take charge and be the pack leader, it sounds as if she is trying to take the upper hand, you need to be the boss.The trouble with these dear little dogs is that they know just how to wrap us around their little fingers[or should I say paws] but if they were a big Doberman we wouldn't put up with some of their behaviour, although having said that they are sensitive little souls, and need to be handled with care, but not spoilt, as they need to know their place.Good luck, gentle yet firm hand will win the day!


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I have been holding back on puppy class because of Parvo My vet even got upset when I told her I brought my dogs to a friends house with another puppy. I have been visiting my sister who has two dogs with all their shots. It seems to me one can find an alternative way of socializing. We had a puppy die of parvo when I was young. My HD had a pup die of it too. I think I would rather not take the risk. I am waiting tell Zoey is 4mo to start class


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Your vet is paranoid. Educate him with this article. http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy socialization.pdf Totally ridiculous to wait that long. A lot of this sounds like it is not aggression, but rather attention seeking behavior. I would ignore all of it for now but would definitely consider getting someone to come in first to determine whether puppy classes would be appropriate , or one on one . If you're interested in getting a trainer, I can help, email me privately.


----------



## JCChaplin (Oct 2, 2007)

We had the same thing with our "charlie". We were worried too. Most, if not all, of this was puppy behavior. Our trainer told us to be firm and say "no bite" or to yelp when he did this. We were also advised to put him back into his ex-pen and ignore him if he was doing something we did not want to encourage. She also said not to pick him up unless he asked for it ( very important). She was correct because we noticed a lot of his growling occurred when my kids (or I ) went to pick him up when he was otherwise comfortable. Charlie still nips at my pants (at three years old) when he wants to play. It's not a problem for us because we know it's just for play. I am sure others would say he is not trained properly,but for us it's ok. I am sure with a little discipline, this will work itself out!


----------



## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Another thing to do is to try not to loom over her. She is a little dog. We are giants. A lot of dogs don't like hands flying at their heads. When you reach for her, try to have your hand below her chin level.

That may be the reason why she pulls back and dodges your hand. You can use treats to get her use to being grabbed by the collar. Touch her neck/collar, treat, release. Do it again. Do it again but hook leash, treat, walk, release.... etc...

Someone on the forum had a video of a trainer using treats to get a dog to put its face into a haltie. It is the same principle. I will try to find it.

Found it: It was Jean Donaldson. I couldn't find the thread but found it on youtube.


----------



## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Bella, To me it sounds like normal puppy play. Puppys play with each other 'ruff' they use their little pin sharp teeth. You should try to find a training center with puppy classes not Petco if possible. The problem with Pet Stores is they don't check the dogs that come in with their owners to buy pet products to see if they have all their shots. At a training center they want to see the paper work on all dogs, more importantly the older ones must have all shots. The puppy class will help you understand what is normal for a puppy and how to deal with your puppys temperment. Also there are bound to be other puppy parents with the same worries and fears you have. If you choose wisely you will get a trainer who has a lot of experience and this will really help you. Some Vets are not dog people after all they see many types of animals. I once had a vet who did not seem to like small dogs, so I thought, later when he left the practice I found out he specialized in surgerys of smaller animals like turtles.


----------



## Tawnee84 (Dec 31, 2010)

it sounds like my puppy, he is 11 weeks old and was always growling and bitting at me and my husband. What we realized when he gets this aggressive its because he wants to go outside to the bathroom... the play bitting us has almost stop  the breeder showed us a trick and its working with him.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

morriscsps said:


> Another thing to do is to try not to loom over her. She is a little dog. We are giants. A lot of dogs don't like hands flying at their heads. When you reach for her, try to have your hand below her chin level.
> 
> That may be the reason why she pulls back and dodges your hand. You can use treats to get her use to being grabbed by the collar. Touch her neck/collar, treat, release. Do it again. Do it again but hook leash, treat, walk, release.... etc...
> 
> ...


Good point Pam. Where did you find this relic of Buffy, LOL But it illustrates how we have to desensitize them to handling. A trainer will be better to judge what's going on here. Words do not serve the purpose quite often.


----------



## bellasmom (Oct 20, 2010)

What a lot of great information here. Thanks so much for all your advice and concern -- I love this forum!


----------



## West End Girl (Feb 18, 2011)

Another great thread!

Bellasmom, your Bella is GORGEOUS!! I love the way she looks!

You know, I'd be questioning your Vet as well. Vaccines begin taking effect immediately and your body will start building antibodies to the dead virus. So, waiting for an extended period for the vaccine to "take effect" is bizarre. 

Our Lola is 10 weeks now and she does the biting/nipping with the kids. She'll nip at my feet and sleeves of my sweatshirt, but I do what KSC has suggested and just say "no", fold my arms and turn away. The kids do that too and it seems to work. 

With the kids it's funny because when Lola sees them, she gets SO excited and you can tell she just wants to play with them. And since my children have small arms and fingers, it makes for a tempting snack!

KSC, I haven't heard of this high pitched "Yip" thing, but maybe I'll try it. 

Please post some new pics of Bella! She's beautiful


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I have a question. My friend who has a westy mix was told by her friend to get beonka (sp) fresh breath spray . She would say no bite and spray a bit in her pups mouth. I never did it because I thought it was mean. What do you guys think.? Also what do you think about spray bottles?
Madie is almost 8mo and has started doing a lot of barking at people and noises out side we have tried no Bark distraction, showing her what is causing the bark. We are thinking of a spray water bottle. Is that mean?


----------



## evaofnc (Feb 22, 2011)

Suzi said:


> I have been holding back on puppy class because of Parvo My vet even got upset when I told her I brought my dogs to a friends house with another puppy. I have been visiting my sister who has two dogs with all their shots. It seems to me one can find an alternative way of socializing. We had a puppy die of parvo when I was young. My HD had a pup die of it too. I think I would rather not take the risk. I am waiting tell Zoey is 4mo to start class


That's weird the vet doesn't want your dog around other dogs that you know the vaccination record of. Is it maybe because the puppy may not have all its shots?

The vet today told me Eva can hang out with dogs that I know they're fully vaccinated but it will be another 3 weeks before she can do puppy classes. That kind of bummed me out since I wanted to start next weekend but I also don't want her getting kennel cough and she won't get that vaccine until the end of March


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

evaofnc said:


> That's weird the vet doesn't want your dog around other dogs that you know the vaccination record of. Is it maybe because the puppy may not have all its shots?
> 
> The vet today told me Eva can hang out with dogs that I know they're fully vaccinated but it will be another 3 weeks before she can do puppy classes. That kind of bummed me out since I wanted to start next weekend but I also don't want her getting kennel cough and she won't get that vaccine until the end of March


 Parvo can be just about anywhere it can come in off your shoes . I did cheat and brought Zoey over to houses that the dogs has been vaccinated I also after her third shot started taking her anywhere. I tried to not let her sniff around to much at the park .
We decided against kennel cough we do not plan on kenneling her and I hope to do my own grooming. I was told that it is like a cold dog's get and it only protects against one kind of cold. If I can't handle grooming I will get the shot because I think she has to have it to go to a groomer.
I think they are good to go after the third shot. The forth is a anti protection shot the odds are way down by then. I am starting puppy class the middle of this mo. She will be 4 1/2 I'm hoping we will get a lot out of it because we are going to try showing at about 7mo I am taking another class at the same time for conformation. 
Was that her 2 or 3rd shot?


----------



## evaofnc (Feb 22, 2011)

It was her second. For some reason I thought it was only a two series shot. It's been awhile since I've done puppy vaccinations lol.

I'm surprised your puppy class will let you do it without the bordetella vaccine. Even the dog park in my town won't let you get a key without it.


----------



## Cindy3kids (Nov 16, 2010)

This sounds alot like my Ginger. She can get pretty agressive with her play. But interstingly, not so much with me. I have been the one in the house to enforce the rules. If she was chasing my feet and nipping, I would very firmly say no and stop walking. She would back away and stop and quickly learned to stop doing that all together. She never nips at me now. It didn't take much time to train her. 

She is pretty good with my younger two children as well but gets the most excited with my 8 year old son. Firstly, he gets hyper and will run around. Then he is surprised when she gets all excited and bites at his socks. Also, I think she almost senses that he is a little scared of her because of this. When she bites at his socks he will say no to her but in kind of a whiny voice and he does not enforce it. He will keep giving her attention (usually negative but still attention) so she just keeps doing what she is doing. It's frustrating because I am trying to teach but he is not doing so well! 

I have also taught her to sit. This was surprisingly easy as well. I used treats and she picked it up probably the first day I taught her. Now when she starts getting hyper, I tell her firmly to sit. Generally this will stop her bad behavior in it's tracks. 

I also think she is just a puppy with lots of energy. It's been so cold here so we have not been going for walks. I replace it with lots of play time - she loves playing fetch so she can run! 

So I definitely see progress with Ginger. We start pupy training soon too and I am so looking forward to it! I think training would help you a lot. Good luck!!


----------



## Cindy3kids (Nov 16, 2010)

I forgot one other thing - what you described about going to her ex pen and getting her attention and then lifting her out...sounds like she was growling because she wanted to be left alone. Ginger will do this if she is lazy or comfortable in her bed and someone goes to lift her up. If she does that, I just let her be...it's just her way of saying leave me alone! Which is fine because she still likes her cuddle time too.


----------



## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

I totally agree with everyone here saying that you shouldn't wait until 4 or 5 months old before you go to the puppy classes. This is just so crazy! What about proper socialization? It's just ridiculous that your vet gave you this advice :crazy:!
Here in the Netherlands it's by everyone recommended to start with the first classes as soon as your puppy gets his second shot (over here it means by 10 weeks old). Puppy classes are not so focused on obedience as for puppies to be around many other dog breeds (smal AND big) and different people. 
Good luck with your girl!


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

evaofnc said:


> It was her second. For some reason I thought it was only a two series shot. It's been awhile since I've done puppy vaccinations lol.
> 
> I'm surprised your puppy class will let you do it without the bordetella vaccine. Even the dog park in my town won't let you get a key without it.


 Maybe they will require it I haven't looked at the form yet. I hope not we were just at the vets$$$$$$$$$


----------



## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

I am not at all an expert on puppy behavior, and my baby boy (10 1/2 weeks) thank god doesn't act aggressively or try to bite (sometimes he gets overexcited and will nip just slightly when he is licking if you are encouraging his kisses, but he always stops and looks SO guilty when you say a stern 'NO' - sometimes even before you say it, since I guess he knows he isn't supposed to do that lol) - but I have to chime in to say that it is _absurd _for *anybody *to suggest that a puppy has to wait until 4 or 5 months for socialization classes!! By then, most of the foundation for how they interact with other dogs/people/situations is already set in stone!!!

The ENTIRE POINT of socialization classes is to introduce them AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE to other dogs, humans, etc. so that they HAVE that early socialization, and can interact appropriately the rest of their lives! (I know that 'dog age calculators' are not entirely accurate, and nor are they exactly equivalent to human development, but most of them do say that a dog, at 4 months old, is about 3-5 years old by human years, in development. Think about what might happen if you didn't socialize a baby human until they were 3-5 years old... SO much, by that age, is already set in stone...) The first few months, heck, the first few WEEKS, are _so _important to puppies when it comes to socialization. I am sure that you have heard horror stories of people that have unknowingly bought their puppies from puppy mills - even if they get their babies as early as 6-8 weeks old, a lack of appropriate socialization during the first 6-8 weeks of the pup's life often results in major problems for many years, if not for the rest of the dog's life. And even after that, the importance of socialization does not somehow stop magically the day you get your baby... 

I _do_ agree that it is important to choose your pup's socialization situation carefully, most especially because of the risk of disease (NOBODY wants their baby to die from parvo, or rabies, or anything else... or even to get fleas or worms if can be avoided!). But the right places are out there, and it is SO important to continue to socialize your puppy appropriately for their age, IMHO.

Just my 2 cents... I too would guess that Bella is/was just trying to play aggressively.

Then again, it has been almost 2 months since you posted the original post; I would be very, very interested to hear how it's been going for you and for Bella?! What have you done, and has it worked? Bella is beautiful, btw!


----------



## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Our second pup Nellie didn't go to any socialising parties or classes ever,we picked her up when she was 11 weeks old, and when she went for her second shot the vet said there was absolutely no reason why she should as she was living in a lively house hold with another dog 4 cats and people coming and going all the time.We have 3 grown up sons and 3 grandchildren who all visit on almost a daily basis, not to mention my sister and her family who live next door and we share our garden, and my Mum who lives above us,what a commune!And also at the time there was a very nasty and infectious bout of kennel cough going around,so I was also told to be very careful where we went for walks,until she was old enough to have her kennel cough vaccine.Anyway she did just fine and is very social and out going no fear of other dogs or people, although very mischievous and full of fun.Like wise our first Hav Dizzie only went to a couple of socialising groups which he was not that impressed with!Has always been a very good calm dog.So some need and like the classes and others will be just fine what ever!


----------



## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

It's widely known that much like human influenza, kennel cough is caused by several different viruses and bacteria, and vaccine is not a 100% guarantee that your dog will not get it. It only reduces the risk, but it's still highly there. Like any vaccination out there it introduces some risks as well, there is always a chance for an allergic reaction, and I doubt if getting kennel cough vaccine is worth the risk (especially not being a 100% guarantee). 
Don't get me wrong, by no means am I advocating not to get it, (some dogs are more prone to catch kennel cough, and in that case I would do it for sure), it's only something to think about. 

With Fedja I didn't go to any puppy classes either, but by 10 weeks old I did take him just about everywhere with me...busy streets, shopping, dog parks, escalators and lift's, trains and tram's, you name it. I have a very quiet household, so in our case not doing this would make for some nervous and shy dog (even now he still is a little). What ever type of socialization you choose (I agree it doesn't have to be a puppy class), I think it should be done way before 4 / 5 months of age.


----------



## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

At this particular time the virus was very bad and was in all the local news papers,as there had been several deaths from it, so every one was being extra cautious, our older dog had his annual kennel cough vaccine brought forward just to be on the safe side,as those who had ,had the vaccine did not get the virus as badly as those who had not had it.


----------



## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

Totally understandable to be extra cautious with such a bad virus ! Glad to hear that in this case kennel cough vaccine proved to benefit the dogs !


----------



## BabyLeo61 (Aug 22, 2011)

Bella, I'm having a similar situation with my 11 week old Havanese. He just loves nipping our feet and legs, and will hold onto our pant legs as we're walking. I've tried everything.. the yelp, ignoring him, putting him in time out, etc. What has been working is the change in the coffee can. Even though I don't really want to scare him, if I shake the can he stops immediately. Now it's to the point where I just walk with the coffee can in my hand and he usually won't nip.


----------



## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

Sorry for bringing up an old thread.

With Oreo, we have a slight biting and gowling problem but thsi is due to his excited state. He only does this when we play with him and get him worked up. What we do is to try to calm him down by ignoring him before we continue play.

We also have a slight exicited pee issue, just a couple drops, but have started to ignore him when we come home while he is in his expen. He'll jump up wanting for us to pick him up but we just ignore him till he calms down. He still jumps for attention in the expen but he knows that if he sits down quietly, he will get attention.

Biting, again, Oreo only bites when he is excited. We stop play if he bites because we know he is excited and will only continue when he calms down.

He has also learned my tone of voice when I saw 'NO' and stops what he does and look at me. He also know a 'Psssst' sound I make and he snaps out of whatever his tricky little mind intended to do, stops and looks at me.

Not sure with other Havs but with Oreo, he's starting to learn to control his excitement and we hope to continue what we are doing to reinforce that was of thinking.

We only do positive reinforcement and never negative.

Sneaky little bugger has learned that if he potties on the pee pee pad, he gets praise and a treat. He would pee and I would praise and give him a treat. He would go back and squat but no pee and come running for a treat. He's done that quite a few times now hahaha.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

narci said:


> Sorry for bringing up an old thread.
> 
> With Oreo, we have a slight biting and gowling problem but thsi is due to his excited state. He only does this when we play with him and get him worked up. What we do is to try to calm him down by ignoring him before we continue play.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're handling him really well! We had someone else whose puppy did the "fake pee" thing for cookies... they even were able to catch it on video for us! They are so cute and funny when they are little. Almost makes me want another puppy. (NOT!!!)(well, at least not YET!ound


----------



## Trixie (Oct 9, 2010)

I have a funny / not so funny related story of how when Trixie was a small pup, she had a period also where she wanted to nip at my feet/shoes & pant legs, especially when I was walking. Well, one afternoon, we're in the backyard, ... and she chases after me and grabs my pantleg with enough force to throw me off balance, and I went flying onto the ground. I almost fell on her, and it was close enough that I think I grazed her, (she scampered out from under me before I fully landed)... and THAT experience, scared the bejesus out of her,... I even remember her utterly *shocked* expression on her face, as she scampered away back to the house. And she never tugged on my pant leg again after that unexpected lesson. LOL.


----------



## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Rosie does the fake pee thing. So I quite giving her treats for potty outside. With a long hair dog it is not obvious. So as I was suspicous, I got toilet paper and wiped and sure enough not wet. They ware smart little buggers.


----------



## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Brody did the pretend to pee for treats thing too. I just laughed and gave him his treat. I figured it probably helped reinforce where he was supposed to go anyhow so I didn't worry about it. He eventually grew out of doing that.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kodi pees on command, which is useful when you want to "empty him out" before getting in the car for a long ride or going into someone else's house. But he has this look on his face like he knows he's humoring me by squeezing out those last few drops!:biggrin1:


----------

