# Practical Application of Separation Anxiety



## virtualet (Apr 21, 2009)

Hi all

First, I want to thank you all for the plethora of information that's available on this forum. My wife and I recently purchased a pup (which we picked up last Thursday), and it's been difficult (to say the least). We knew that it'd be hard, but we had no idea that it'd be this hard. All your stories and advice have given us solace and guidance in rearing him.

We are having a bit of an issue with separation anxiety, however. Based on what I've read thus far, one tactic is to put the pup into a crate (ours is crate trained) and let him whine and howl for a predetermined amount of time. Our training cycle is something like this:

Put dog in crate for 10 min. Leave room
Open crate door. Ignore pup for 30 seconds
Say hi to pup and play.
Repeat and add 5 minutes.

Does this sound right? We originally left the dog in our gated off bathroom, but when we left, he would howl, whine and pee all over the gate. We finally realized to put him in his crate, since he won't pee or poo in there voluntarily.

Any other thoughts? I've been trying to desensitize him to our leaving signals, and he doesn't flinch. It's when we leave that he freaks out

Btw, his name is Ramon


----------



## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

What a cutie Ramon is! 

Sounds like you are doing the right thing. While I am not certain if this is the best approach, it is an approach and I can warn you that it is better dealt with now! My Lola is 2 and I spoiled her into severe SA. Now I pay the price. The SA became really bad when she started eliminating in her crate, expen, house - basically anywhere I left her. She is a basket case now and we are trying meds after 1 year of everything else.

Add in some yummy treats to your leaving. Freeze a kong filled with yogurt, cream cheese or peanut butter. That will give him something to do for 20 minutes when you are gone.

These havs stick to their people like velcro, and anything you can do to put some separation between you and him early on will help him be more confident.

Good luck and hang in there. Ramon is a doll.


----------



## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I am certainly not an expert at training, but I can tell you what we did with our boys. From day 1 when we got Brady, we started leaving him for short periods of time a few times a day so he would realize that we do leave, and we do come back. He did cry for the first week or two, but then got used to the routine. We would leave the tv or radio on when we went out, tell him to be a good boy, and give him a treat. Then we would go and not look back. Brady is a routine kind of dog, so even now that we don't leave him in the crate anymore when we go out, he runs into the crate when he knows we are leaving and waits for his treat. We did the same thing when we got puppy number 2, Dugan.

By the way, your baby is just adorable.


----------



## Patti McNeil (Apr 20, 2009)

Ramon is so stinkin' cute!!! How old is he? The crate training cycle sounds good. Does he cry when you put him in there? I would also try NOT leaving the room when he's in there. I was doing what you did at first, but then realized that there are times I want Toby confined when I need to be in the same room.

I can't chime in about SA because I haven't had to deal with it. You'll find awesome people here to help you. Welcome to the forum!


----------



## Jammies (Apr 4, 2009)

*All I can add is that Ramon is too darned cute for words!!!!! It's those cute faces that get us. We have a sheltie who is extremely smart. Our hav (Jammies)is no match for her, but I say what Jammies lacks in smarts, she makes up for in "cute". She is by no means a dumb dog, but I think Shelties are almost human!*

:welcome:


----------



## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

I can't speak on separation anxiety only to say you will get wonderful expert advice from many others who can. But I do want to tell you that Ramon is way too cute.


----------



## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Ramon is a Cutie!


----------



## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Ramon sure has a cute face! The separation anxiety just takes time and a lot of leaving and coming back.


----------



## virtualet (Apr 21, 2009)

Patti McNeil said:


> Ramon is so stinkin' cute!!! How old is he? The crate training cycle sounds good. Does he cry when you put him in there? I would also try NOT leaving the room when he's in there. I was doing what you did at first, but then realized that there are times I want Toby confined when I need to be in the same room.
> 
> I can't chime in about SA because I haven't had to deal with it. You'll find awesome people here to help you. Welcome to the forum!


Ramon was born on 4/29, so he's almost 11 weeks old. He doesn't cry when we first put him in the crate, but the second he loses sight of us, he'll start whining and howling. It was cute at first, but now it's annoying.


----------



## virtualet (Apr 21, 2009)

Btw, I didn't expect 90% of the comments to express how cute Ramon is. Thanks! He is cute, a little too cute for his own good (if you know what I mean)


----------



## baxterboy (Mar 17, 2009)

Oh my, Ramon is adorable!!

I can't help with the crate training because we did not do it with Baxter, but you have (and will get) great advice on that here.

Just wanted to give you a bit of hope regarding the Separation Anxiety, because I know it can all be so overwhelming at first, and I remember how I thought "oh Lord, what have I gotten myself into!" that first month. Baxter was 7 months old and was most likely a puppy mill dog when we got him. He would NOT do the crate---even with me laying next to him petting him through the bars he would get so upset he'd have diarreha all over himself. We decided to nix it, and he ended up doing wonderful at night in a dog bed (I would take him out 1/2 way through the night) but during the day when we were gone was a different story. I'm a teacher, and so he was left almost 8 hours right off the bat. Not the best situation (I had planned on getting our hav over the summer, but well, Baxter kind of fell into our laps, and plans changed.) 

We would leave him in our laundry room with toys, a stuffed kong/treats, a dog bed, water, and a pee pad. At first we had a gate up, and the first day I walked in to find him gone. He had jumped over the gate and had proceeded to poop and wee throughout the house. After that we closed the door, only to find his toys and treats untouched and the door clawed at. We covered the door with masonite board, and after about a month he was much better. He stopped clawing at the door, and he slowly started taking to the treats / kong and now (5 months later) he has run of the house when we are away. No destructive behavior at all. We did install a doggie door---which is a godsend! And I have an automatic toy dispenser that throws out peanut butter lined kongs, or toys/chews out throughout the day. He only gets treats when we are either training him, or when we are gone. It really has seemed to help the separation anxiety. It just took a while for him to actually go near the treats while we were gone---and I remember posting the question on this board! But in time, he did. 

Always say the same thing when you leave his sight.... "Be good" is what I say. Now when we leave, I put down a toy with a treat that he has to hunt for to keep him busy ("Hide a squirrel", or "egg babies", or a nina ottosson toy) and say "be good." That's his signal that we are leaving, and we will come back. It's like his safety code that gives him some control over what is happening and what will happen. He just needs to experience you COMING BACK enough that he understands that "be good" means: I get treats, I spend time alone, and they always come back. Keep at it, and have faith--it will get better!


----------



## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

:welcome: to the forum! Ramon is such a cutie! 

I did want to say that I think 10 minutes is too long with the way you are approaching this. Did you say that every time you come back you let him out? All this is teaching him is that when you get back he gets to be let out and that is SO much more fun than being stuck in this stupid crate. What I would do instead is this:

Put him in his crate after giving him plenty of exercise. Play with him and wear him out. STAY in the room, but don't give him any attention or eye contact. You said that he's fine in the crate if you're in the room. For how long is this? 10 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour? You need to make sure he's fine in it for at least 30 minutes while you're in the room. If you find that he's restless, keep him occupied with a stuffed toy (like a kong or something similar) or a chew treat. He may or may not touch it. Some dogs won't eat if they're separated from you, my Kubrick used to be like that. Now once you know he's okay for at least 30 minutes by himself while you're in the room, start SLOWLY taking time away from the room. The first time you do it you should just walk out for like 10 seconds and walk back in. Do NOT look at him or approach the crate as if to let him out. Just walk in and out. Make sure he can see you walking in and out. Do this many many times. Eventually he will realize that you walking out does not mean you'll be gone forever. But you NEED to leave him in his crate because letting him out when you walk back in is teaching him incorrect behavior. Once he's fine with you walking in and out, start increasing times. First do 2 minutes, then 5 then 10, etc. Spread this out over DAYS, not just in one day. Make sure that his time in the crate isn't ALL upsetting or he'll begin to hate it. He may cry, but that's okay. Ramon is crying because he's alone and he doesn't know why. It's annoying and upsetting (trust me, I know!) but try your best to ignore it. It'll get better with time, I promise. Ramon is still very young and it might take a while. Try not to get frustrated with him as they do pick up on that.

Also, for actually leaving the house, not just the room, there's a whole other process I go through. If you're interested in that, I can post it here for you.

Good luck and keep us posted!


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Welcome Virtu & Ramon!

Anne, I was just telling a friend (Stephb11) to search for your training on desensitizing Lola and now I am bummed to read that you are still battling this. I was hoping that she had outgrown it along with the training.

Great advice, Carolina. I'm sure you have plenty of other things to do, but Stephanie is looking for the specific advice about leaving the house, so if you'd be willing to post your method, maybe she and others can benefit from it. Pretty please?


----------



## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Kimberly, sure thing. I wrote this post up a long time ago and have copied and pasted it many times, LOL. Here's the list of things I do when leaving the house (nowadays I don't do the TV thing anymore except at night as I've found the pups get more upset when we leave them at night than during the day):



> Here's a list of things that worked really well for me:
> 
> 1. Before you leave, ignore your puppy for 20 minutes. That means no eye contact and no touching. This shows him that he can be apart from you while you're home and be happy. It might be hard at first because he might beg for attention. He will stop doing this eventually, though.
> 
> ...


I would like to add that you do not have to do the crate thing forever. I used the crate for maybe a week before transitioning to leaving Kubrick in the crate with the door open to his expen to just leaving him in his expen to finally giving him run of the house. He had run of the house by 5-6 months or so.


----------



## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

virtualet said:


> Btw, I didn't expect 90% of the comments to express how cute Ramon is. Thanks! He is cute, a little too cute for his own good (if you know what I mean)


:welcome:

We are a picture loving group, we just get very overwhelmed with precious looking little puppies!

Just remind us again what you would like to learn. We will try to remember to post additional information besides how cute your little puppy is:bounce:


----------



## virtualet (Apr 21, 2009)

HavaneseSoon said:


> :welcome:
> 
> We are a picture loving group, we just get very overwhelmed with precious looking little puppies!
> 
> Just remind us again what you would like to learn. We will try to remember to post additional information besides how cute your little puppy is:bounce:


haha. yes, i realize that you all love the cuteness. nothing wrong with that.

our biggest problem with Ramon is that he pees everywhere when we're away. he's fairly potty trained, in that he knows where to go eliminate when we're present. he's comfortable being by himself in our bathroom which is gated off, as long as he can see us from the gate. he's comfortable being in a crate while we're in the same room with him. he whines and howls (which is tolerable) when we're away, but the peeing is the disconcerting part. i figure if he can learn to be alone without us in the room while he's in his crate, he'll learn to not pee. does that sound right?

btw, he doesn't really do destructive behaviour, mainly because there's nothing in the bathroom to destroy.


----------



## stephb11 (Jul 5, 2009)

This post has helped me immensely! Thanks Kimberly for directing me to it!

I cannot imagine (at this point) Luke having the run of the house within the next 2-3 months with as much as he uses the bathroom when were home now! LOL!

StephB


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I hoped this would be helpful!


----------



## Thumbelleina (Apr 2, 2009)

Ramon is adorable! Buster has bad SA. He poops, just a little by the door, each time we leave to let us know how upset he his. (I've tried taking him out, tiring him out, etc...nothing works). He can't be left in his cage because he makes a racket and we don't have nice downstairs neighbors. He can't be locked up in the kitchen because he's made a drywall tunnel by the gate. 

So what works (sorta)....we tivo'd a dog agility show and he sits on the couch and watches it while we're gone (after he's made on the floor). We set up a camera to see if he was really that upset when we were gone and found out that he does watch for us by the window, but if the tv show he loves is on, he's usually on the couch watching until he hears a car. Maybe try seeing if Ramon enjoys the dog show company?


----------



## virtualet (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks for all the help/advice. I figure that this is going to be slow-going, so patience is key. We left Ramon home alone for about an hour yesterday, and while he was yapping and barking when I arrived, there was no pee on the ground. Small victories, right?

Another quick question: Ramon can't sleep through the night yet. We have to take him to go pee at least once a night. When did your pups start sleeping through the night? We put up his water at 7pm and make sure he gets a potty break right before bed. He's currently 11 weeks old. Thoughts?

Here's another picture of Ramon for you puppy lovers. I don't think I'm ever getting a puppy again, but I'm glad that I'm doing this at least one time.


----------



## lcy_pt (Aug 17, 2007)

virtualet said:


> Thanks for all the help/advice. I figure that this is going to be slow-going, so patience is key. We left Ramon home alone for about an hour yesterday, and while he was yapping and barking when I arrived, there was no pee on the ground. Small victories, right?
> 
> Another quick question: *Ramon can't sleep through the night yet. We have to take him to go pee at least once a night. When did your pups start sleeping through the night? We put up his water at 7pm and make sure he gets a potty break right before bed. He's currently 11 weeks old. Thoughts?
> *
> Here's another picture of Ramon for you puppy lovers. I don't think I'm ever getting a puppy again, but I'm glad that I'm doing this at least one time.


OMG! Look at that squishy face!!!!

Sorry about that....just a little puppy meltdown...hehe!

I have two brothers from the same litter. They usually made it until 5 a.m. This lasted only a few weeks before the time slowly increased. We're now up to approx. 7:30 or so. I also took their water away about 7 pm as well and pottied before bed (them...not me  ) It does get better.


----------



## Patti McNeil (Apr 20, 2009)

Toby is almost 4 months old, and he will sleep from 9:30pm-4:00am, but then will go back to sleep for about an hour. Up until about 3 weeks ago, he was getting up around 1 and again 4.


----------

