# HELP! Behavorial Issues at year and a half



## DaisyMazy (Dec 18, 2009)

This is new in Daisy's behavor and I dont' know how to nip it in the bud. While I am at work she is perfect just sits on her chair and looks out the window. The neighbors stop by and say hello. 

When I get home I take her for a walk and check my email messages. During that time she poos on the floor. I haven't caught her in the act but I don't know what to do. She has also been doing this when she gets up in the am and I am taking a shower for work.

This all started (I think) when I worked an entire weekend and didn't get up from the computer. 

Sometime during the night she got up and pooed in the entrance to the bedroom. I am thinking she is acting out but don't know how to correct her. 

You guys seem to know so much more than I do what can I do?


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Hi

Sorry to hear about this bout of teenage rebellion  Or acting out, it isn't too terrible uncommon for dogs to regress on the housetraining, and I've even saw several on this forum that happened in the 1-2 yo range, I know they say that dogs aren't spiteful, but everytime I've left Gucci for any significant period of time, she rewards me by peeing or pooping on the floor somewhere, I think she's upset....or getting me back, lol 

You will have to go back to the basics of housebreaking, time the water and food, watch, confine to xpen or ? if you have to turn away, reward going outside, etc.

I remember this happening to us around the same time, after about 3-4 days of housebreaking rules,she seemed to get back on track.

Kara


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I was just thinking the same thing with mine. All of a sudden I'm having someone(s) peeing and pooping everywhere, to the point that I want to put them all in an ex pen. You'll get some great advice here, much of which I've heard before, but I find it hard to go back to basics with three.

I'll be anxiously watching for advice. The good news is, it is reversible.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

There must be something in the air! My guys are 6, 5 and 4 years old. They are fully housebroken. I've been living in this house for 3 years and there has never been an accident. I was in NYC on business and when I got home there was a poop on the carpet! I am not sure which one of them it was. They have a dog door and this was such a shock to me. I am going back to walking them outside in the am, pm and after work. There is a slight chance my dog sitters dog was the culprit, but I can't be sure.


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

Mine do this for two reasons.

1) They are mad at me. When they're just kind of mad, it's by the back door (directly in front of the doggie door). When they're pretty darn upset, it's in the bedroom. And when they're downright angry, it's on my pillow.

2) The weather is changing. When it's raining, when it's cold, when it's really humid, basically when the weather is "uncomfortable" for going outside, they will potty in the house. But on these occasions, they try to hide it from me (like in the back corner of the kitchen). That's how I know it's the weather, not because of reason #1.

I've finally gotten them to mess in the garage instead of in the house when it's due to the weather. Still prefer they go outside, but I'll take the garage over the house any day.

With mine, if it happens once or twice, I just let it go. Clean up the mess and don't say anything. Either the weather changes enough for them to go outside, or they get over whatever they were mad about. But either way, the problem solves itself.

If it continues (more than once in a day, or more than 2-3 times before stopping altogether), then I do "regress" a bit. I still don't scold them, unless I actually catch them in the act. Even then, it's not scolding, but telling them to potty outside, and rushing them out the door. I do restrict access to the kitchen when I'm gone (instead of the whole house), and I am much more consistent/strict with feeding times, walks, potty breaks, etc. It usually doesn't take more than a few days of reinforcement before everything is back to normal.

Until the seasons change again.

Or I make them mad. 

My dogs are so well behaved.........:suspicious:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Yes, I swear she does it when she's mad at me too!! Even though they SAY dogs aren't revengeful...? I'm not totally convinced they can't reason in that direction..

Have you seen Dogs Decoded?

http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Dogs-Decoded-Nova/70148726?trkid=1537778#height1506

Pretty interesting stuff! I should probably start a new thread about it but it does basically say they are much smarter than we give them credit for.

Kara


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

So far, so good, haven't seen any regression in behavior (knock on forehead).

I agree that I think dogs and most animals are far smarter than humans give them credit for - have thought that for a long while now. Birds too. Figured that out after living with my parrot and two 'tiels for several years now. Humans are pretty arrogant in their assumptions about animals.......


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Maddie by no means is house broken but does know to ask at the door. She was doing good then not so good and that was because of all the rain. She was not doing so good over the weekend, when I caught her I would show her the door put her out and say potty out side. On Monday I had just taken her out and she would not go I came back inside and she piddled right in front of me.
I was so angry screamed no and did my usual showed her the door took her out said potty outside.(all with a not so nice tone to my voice)
I then because I was angry put her in time out in her crate. I thought to myself she is going in their for 2 hours. I put her in my room and closed the door. She cried and cried:violin: needles to say I only lasted 20 minutes with the 2hr time out. I swear it worked she has not had a accident in the house since.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Thumper said:


> Yes, I swear she does it when she's mad at me too!! Even though they SAY dogs aren't revengeful...? I'm not totally convinced they can't reason in that direction..
> 
> Have you seen Dogs Decoded?
> 
> ...


Kara,
After watching that video, do you think my guy pooped inside because he/she was mad I went away? That's never happened before though.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> So far, so good, haven't seen any regression in behavior (knock on forehead).
> 
> I agree that I think dogs and most animals are far smarter than humans give them credit for - have thought that for a long while now. Birds too. Figured that out after living with my parrot and two 'tiels for several years now. Humans are pretty arrogant in their assumptions about animals.......


You won't hear me arguing about how smart dogs (or other animals) are. However, they have different agendas and different perceptions (and sensibilities) than we do. A dog might very easily decide that it's more aversive to go outside in the rain to potty than it is to go in the house. If they know their person is likely to get mad at them about it, they may very well decide to hide it.

I believe that a dog who is upset about changes in his/her routine may regress and have accidents in the house. I do not believe it is spiteful.

And while it is demonstrably easier to potty train a dog or puppy if there are already reliably potty trained dogs in the house, I think we've seen time and again that BAD habits are harder to break in multiple dog households, partly because they copy each other and partly because it's hard to identify (and individually work with) the culprit.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> Maddie by no means is house broken but does know to ask at the door. She was doing good then not so good and that was because of all the rain. She was not doing so good over the weekend, when I caught her I would show her the door put her out and say potty out side. On Monday I had just taken her out and she would not go I came back inside and she piddled right in front of me.
> I was so angry screamed no and did my usual showed her the door took her out said potty outside.(all with a not so nice tone to my voice)
> I then because I was angry put her in time out in her crate. I thought to myself she is going in their for 2 hours. I put her in my room and closed the door. She cried and cried:violin: needles to say I only lasted 20 minutes with the 2hr time out. I swear it worked she has not had a accident in the house since.


Putting a puppy out and telling them to "potty outside" is useless. She hasn't got a CLUE what you are telling her. You need to STAY out with her until she goes, then praise her and have a "party" IMMEDIATELY. If it's raining, take an umbrella to protect both of you. If she doesn't go while she's out, IMMEDIATELY put her in her crate... NOT as a "punishment" or "time out" (which she won't understand anyway) but because she is very unlikely to soil her crate. Then try to take her out to potty again in an hour (then and hour after that... until she goes)

A two hour time-out isn't the least bit useful in training your dog. She doesn't have a CLUE why she's locked away from you past the first couple of minutes. And because you did it AFTER you took her outside, she will associate the punishment with the last thing she did, (going outside with you) not peeing inside the door.

Getting angry is no reason to punish a dog or a child. Corrections need to be well considered and carefully timed to be effective and at the same time not damage your relationship with your dog.

Please consider getting some professional help with your puppy. You've posted a couple of things in the last couple of days that are worrisome to me.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Well said...My girl does not like her feet wet. Now she does go out in the wet grass and she knows when she comes in I will towel dry and then blow dry them this helped big time, treats did not (she is treat driven, just not enough to get the feet wet). This is because everyday I will stand for hours in the wet grass until she would go. Now we are working on the rain and I have created another kind of monster...she needs to have someone go outside to stand with her, the other dogs won't due. You just have to do the steps getting mad does nothing, dogs don't reason. As long as she will go outside, I will do whatever.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I spent about a hour replying to the post about what I wrote and when I went to send it I had taken so long that I got logged off that happens all the time to me.:frusty:
The topic I was trying to make a point with was how smart dogs are. Maddie must be smart or all the effort I have put into her house training has finally paid off.
I have not used the create for training I only use the create for when I can not be around her. So the day I got angry that she peeed right in front of me I thought to myself maybe their is something to crate training. 
I raised two kids and time out was how I handled some behavioral problems. 
It worked for me. My typing skills and writing skills are poor . I do go outside with Maddie we spend a lot of time out. The rain has scared her because it is new to her. And we have a covered patio. The noise of a hard down pour scares her. She is getting used to it. she has too because we live in a very rainy part of the country.
I have no Idea if it was the 20 mins I left her crying in her create or it was all the work I have done house training . Maddie has not had a accident in the house since her first time out. Before that we had only about two days with no accidents.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Must add that I agree with Karen - dogs are not "mad at us" - that's a human attribute being applied to dogs. Dogs may respond to a change in their routine or environment yes...but to think that they can tell time, know how long you are gone, and poop because they're mad is humanizing the dog's behaviour.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

pjewel said:


> I was just thinking the same thing with mine. All of a sudden I'm having someone(s) peeing and pooping everywhere, to the point that I want to put them all in an ex pen. You'll get some great advice here, much of which I've heard before, but I find it hard to go back to basics with three.
> 
> I'll be anxiously watching for advice. The good news is, it is reversible.


Until you know who it is, it almost seems unavoidable that you need to take all three back to basics though...not fun but I wonder how else you would address it...nanny cam to figure out who it is?


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

KSC said:


> Must add that I agree with Karen - dogs are not "mad at us" - that's a human attribute being applied to dogs. Dogs may respond to a change in their routine or environment yes...but to think that they can tell time, know how long you are gone, and poop because they're mad is humanizing the dog's behaviour.


I agree that using the term "mad at us" is humanizing our dogs. I just use that phrase because I don't have anything more appropriate. My dogs (well, OK, just Bandit) literally do retaliate sometimes, and it's not due to change in routine.

It's not logical/reasoning behavior in the sense that we think of it, but he truly does act out, and the "crime" is in direct relation to his "perceived inequality."

Example: If he's chewing something inappropriate (such as a shoe) and I take it away but give him something less desirable to chew on (such as a rope toy), he'll pee in the doorway to my bedroom. If I give him something equal or better (such as a bully stick), he'll go happily to his bed and chew away. If he's chewing something REALLY inappropriate (such as a tasty tidbit of who knows what that he found outside) and I take it away but give him something less desirable (such as a greenie bone), he'll pee on my bed. Sometimes he'll poop on my pillow.

The "crime" is directly related to his "perceived injustice." You can believe me or not, but I've seen it way too many times related to way too many circumstances to be convinced otherwise.

No, I don't believe they feel human emotions. No, I don't believe they have the powers of logic or reasoning or any of the higher capacity thought processes that we do. But on some level, there are things he likes, things he likes less, and things he doesn't like at all. And he has found a way to express his appreciation or lack thereof. I characterize these actions with human terms, only because I have no other way to describe them.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Suzi, since you live in rainy country maybe you could put down a pee pad when it's raining outside. A downpour is no fun! I sometimes wish I had done that for Abby although now she is old enough to hold it until the rain slacks up enough to go out.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

kudo2u said:


> I agree that using the term "mad at us" is humanizing our dogs. I just use that phrase because I don't have anything more appropriate.


Gotcha!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

We all love anthropomorphizing. Like any drug, we must be aware of some of the downsides. We must realize that dogs are not out to get us, and certainly not out to" dominate" us. They don't spend their spare time plotting against us. Here is an excerpt from Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson.

"... This nightmarish world is the one inhabited by many domestic dogs all the time. Virtaully all natural dog behaviours – chewing, barking, rough play, chasing moving objects, eating food items within reach, jumping up to access faces, settling disputes with threat displays, establishing contact with strange dogs, guarding resources, leaning into steady pressure against their necks, urinating on porous surfaces like carpets, defending themselves from perceived threat – are considered by humans to be behaviour problems. The rules that seem so obvious to us make absolutely no sense to dogs. They are not humans in dog suits...

It is as inherently obvious to dogs that furniture, clothing and car interiors are good for chewing as it is inherently obvious to you that TV sets are good for watching. If I reprimand you for watching the TV, your most likely course of action is to simply watch TV when I’m not around… Housetraining is another classic example… Owners interpret dogs who “refuse” to eliminate on walks and then go on the carpet when the owner leaves the room to answer the phone as “getting back at them”. Absolutely not so. The dog has simply learned to go to the bathroom on an obvious toilet – the carpet – when the attacker is not present. He behaves obsequiously on the owner’s return to try and turn off the punishment that inevitably occurs when certain context cues (owner plus poop on rug) are present. It is clear from his terrified, submissive posture that the dog would dearly love to avoid that punishment if only he knew how. If someone punished you in a certain circumstance, you would beg for mercy too, regardless of whether you had any clue as to why they were about to punish you. It’s Orwellian what we do to dogs".


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

IDK.

I have a hard time believing that dogs don't feel anger, they feel *love*, *happiness*, *excitement*, *sadness*..they feel *fear*, they feel every other emotion...

but yet, they don't feel *anger*?

I know it is common belief that they don't feel anger, but when I tell gucci I'm leaving, she turns her head and won't look at me when she's mad, my husband and kids think its the funniest thing, because its one of the more human-like/diva-like things she does, I can even use my hand to tilt her face back to me and she'll jerk it back to look away if she doesn't like the word I am using "I'll be back" is the trigger word for the pissed off, I won't look at you..or I will go sit at the top of the stairs and not come say bye, behavior..

It just doesn't seem logical that they can feel any and all emotions besides the one that we don't like,

Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt....and shot of tequila 

Kara


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Just clarifying - I didn't say dogs don't feel emotions..I just thing we attach human meaning that's more advanced to a dog. I do not for a second believe in them doing something out of spite.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KSC said:


> Just clarifying - I didn't say dogs don't feel emotions..I just thing we attach human meaning that's more advanced to a dog. I do not for a second believe in them doing something out of spite.


Ditto.


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