# Internist visit



## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

We saw the internist today. I didn't let them do biopsies to rule in or out IBD since that is the main suspect anyway and Sophie has been through more than enough vet procedures. But we are going to treat it as such. The SIBO is a secondary issue to the IBD which is what I was afraid of.

Also could be lymphoma but I really don't think so, it doesn't fit nearly as well and she'd probably be more sick by now. It's very important to get IBD under control though and well managed, the inflammation can cause lymphoma so want to keep it down as much as possible.

We're not going to do much different right now, just see how she does on the Tylosin. We can add in metronidazole again as well as pred if we have to go there. She may be able to eat more foods eventually, depending on if she also has pancreatitis. 

She has been so awfully itchy so asked him if it would be safe to use Apoquel on her which was what I was looking forward to as I hear it's a miracle for itchies. But unfortunately he said he hates Apoquel, there hasn't been a lot of testing done on it and he has been seeing a scary amount of dogs on it coming in with cancers.  So not sure what to do about these itchies now. Poor Soph!

But I was encouraged that he said she should be able to get back to doing her favorite things again and that many dogs live a long full life with IBD! Am praying she will be one of those who can get by fine on very little meds.


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## AbrilsMama (Jun 24, 2014)

Believing along with you Dee Dee. Gotta get Sophie to a point where she can go with you and have fun again.


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

Hi Dee Dee,
I remembered today was your internist appointment so was glad to see your post about it. From the way she seems to be acting and playing, I agree with you about not making too many changes. She seems to be responding with whatever you're doing. Too bad about the itchies... hopefully you will eventually figure out something with that also. So glad she is acting more like her old self again!!!


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Would Quercetin help with her itches? Usually it is combined with Bromelain.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

It is like a roller coaster and a balancing act combined. It is hard work trying to figure out what is wrong, and hopefully make it better.


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## Hanna (Feb 25, 2016)

So sorry to hear this Hope Sophie will get better soon, and play with you again like before!

When I read this thread the one thing that comes to my mind is this article that I've found when I'm searching about and article about the dog food, and i've found this I think it will helped you! An article about the  dog food for dogs with pancreatitis they have a lot of information there related of the situation of your beloved Sophie.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

day at a time. Hang in there Dee Dee


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm glad to see this post as I was hoping for an update on the visit to the internist. More prayers coming that you can get Sophie's problems under control I know you are persistent and a good doggie mom so I have every reason to believe that Sophie will continue to improve under you diligent care! She's such a charmer!


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Pucks, she was on super quercetin for several weeks before her tummy issues and it didn't seem to help so we took her off once she started getting other problems and taking meds and herbs for. She gets NAET treatments for the allergies but to tell you the truth I haven't seen any change and didn't really with my Hallie either. Holistic vet has some things to give her once she's stable again but again I'm sure it wouldn't be a dramatic improvement like apoquel would have been. 

That is a great article Hanna! Thanks for the link I learned some new stuff! I agree with them it would sure be nice if someone started making an excellent commercial food for these kinds of problems.

Appreciate the support and advice from you guys! Sophie just had her 4th dose of Tylosin and is still feeling really good, last night when I took her out to potty she suddenly exploded into a whirling, growling flurry of puppy doing zoomies all around me at full speed, and would purposely plow right through her big pile of small plastic balls I put in her kiddie pool, balls flying everywhere. She also is still playing like crazy with her big beach balls. Love this girl.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

It's so good to hear that Sophie is acting her normal > self!


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

sounds like she is on the right track! So glad to hear that sweet baby is feeling better!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Thank you for all the updates. We are thinking of you both.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Hello Dee Dee. There was a question asked by a subscriber to the newspaper today regarding her dog's suspected IBD, and I thought of you. Not wanting to go to manufactured food prescribed by her vet, the subscriber was questioning Dr. Fox (who contributes nationally to newspapers), what diet he would recommend. She did not trust her vet's suggestion of Hill's I/D. Dr. Fox suggested to go to his website where he had a recipe for homemade dog food. He said that some dogs do not thrive as well on a raw food diet. There was a follow up from the first letter stating that the dog's issues cleared up after a week. I copied the recipe from his website. His site is www.drfoxvet.net his email is: [email protected]
Best of luck, Nancy

Dr. Michael Fox's Homemade 'Natural'
Food for Dogs

2 lb. cubed stewing beef, mutton or lamb (avoid ground hamburger especially because of potential bacterial contamination):, or one whole chicken, or half of a small turkey.

4 cups of COOKED whole grain brown rice (or barley, quinoa, amaranth, rolled oats, or rice pasta noodles) or 4 cups of chopped organic potatoes
Pinch of salt
1 T. wheat germ
1 T. cider vinegar
1 t. brewer's yeast
1 T calcium citrate/ or lactate, or human-grade bone meal

Combine all above ingredients. Add water to cover ingredients, simmer, stir, and add more water as needed until LIGHTLY cooked. Overcooked meats lose nutrients and can form harmful byproducts. De-bone chicken parts and do not feed cooked bones since they can splinter and cause internal injury. The recipe should be thick to be molded into patties (add oat bran or rice or buckwheat flour to help thicken).Mix well into the stew while it is still very hot, a cup full of blueberries or chopped apple, and 1 cup of either grated broccoli, cabbage ,collard greens carrots, sweet potato or yam.

Then when cooled off add 1 T. vegetable oil (flax seed oil* or safflower oil), 1T. organic butter or coconut oil and 2 T.organic plain "live" yoghurt or kefir. And 1 t. Spirulina, 1 t. powdered ginger and 1 t powdered turmeric.
Serve 1 cup full of this recipe for a 30 lb. dog twice daily. Freeze the rest into patties and store in the freezer. Serve thawed, or frozen to gnaw on outdoors in hot weather.

For variation, you can use cottage cheese, plus well-cooked lentils, chick peas (garbanzo beans), lima beans or other pulses, or a dozen organic eggs as meat alternatives. Don't forget, lightly cooked, or if organically certified, raw calf and beef liver, heart, 'green tripe' and kidneys are good sources of animal protein and other essential nutrients. All pet food ingredients, ideally, should be organically certified. (Note: some dogs are allergic or hypersensitive to some foods, especially soy, beef, eggs, wheat and dairy products.).

T = Tablespoon
t = teaspoon

Also give the dog a daily multi-vitamin and muti-mineral supplement with one of the meals, such as a good quality human 'one -a day' supplement equivalent, crushed up in the food, calculating one half of the human daily dose for a 50 lb dog: one pediatric/baby one a day for toy dogs, or a specific dog product such as Animal Essentials Multi-Vitamin and Mineral supplement. For dogs under 30 lb, and for over-weight and less active dogs, use half the amount of rice or other carbohydrate in the recipe. When the food has cooled, put daily portions in food containers in the refrigerator, where it should be good for 3 days. Put in the freezer if you have small portions for a small dog.

This recipe ( minus any bones) can be put in a food processor and fed raw..

--TRANSITION YOUR DOG GRADUALLY ONTO THIS NEW DIET---MIX INCREASING AMOUNTS OF YOUR DOG'S NEW FOOD WITH DECREASING AMOUNTS OF THE OLD FOOD OVER A 7-DAY PERIOD TO ENABLE ADAPTIATION AND AVOID POSSIBLE DIGESTIVE UPSET.

IT IS ADVISABLE TO VARY THE BASIC INGREDIENTS TO PROVIDE VARIETY AND TO AVOID POSSIBLE NUTRITIONAL IMBALANCES, AND TO MONITOR THE ANIMAL'S BODY CONDITION SO AS TO AVOID EITHER OVER-FEEDING OR UNDER-FEEDING, BASED ON THE AVERAGE DOG CONSUMING ONE CUPFULL OF THE FOOD TWICE DAILY PER 30 POUNDS BODY WEIGHT.

I advise, since obesity is so prevalent in companion animals today, weighing the animal at weekly intervals when being put on a new diet and adjust the amount being fed according to any decrease or increase in weight down or up from the optimum weight determined by your veterinarian.

--NOTE: DIFFERENT ANIMALS HAVE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT NUTRITIONAL NEEDS ACCORDING TO AGE, TEMPERAMENT, AMOUNT OF PHYSICAL ACTIVITY AND HEALTH STATUS.*** Large dogs require less food per pound body weight, so adjust according to appetite and weight gain, and especially if deep-chested and prone to bloat, give 3-4 smaller meals per day.***

Keep teeth clean by getting dogs, especially toy breeds, used to a daily brushing. The best and safest natural tooth-cleaner is a raw, scalded (to kill off bacteria) 3-4 inch piece of beef shank/soup/marrow bone, or thin strips of scalded raw beef heart or shank meat-the tougher the better!

NUTRACEUTICALS/HERBAL SUPPLEMENTS: Ginger and turmeric are two examples of such that have a diversity of beneficial digestive, anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer pharmaceutical/therapeutic properties. I would also add a little cinnamon for dogs with diabetes and high blood pressure (often associated with kidney disease) and oregano, or thyme and sage, and cumin or fenugreek for those with digestive/dysbiosis issues. I would give a pinch in the food for habituation and acceptance then increase to about one-half teaspoon daily of each for a 30-40 lb dog. Older dogs with cognitive/dementia issues can benefit from 1 tablespoon per 50 lb of coconut oil in their food daily. Many people are surprised how many good medicines they have in their own kitchens, such traditional wisdom---Hippocrates urging let our food be our medicine and our medicine our food---is anathema and taboo and heretical to the legal pharmaceutical industry.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Thank you for the good thoughts! She is still feeling great!!!!! Getting into all kinds of mischief making me laugh all day. 

Wow that is GREAT information Gold....thank you so much for taking the time to post this. I read the whole thing and it's very close to the plan we are going to be switching to with our holistic vet. Except using bison instead of beef. And she does recommend ground meat not sure why I'll have to ask her. Just got tumeric for her and I both too!


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Hi Dee Dee. I think the reference to ground beef meant not to buy it already ground. There is too much opportunity to introduce bacteria in the handling and processing. Some stores will get rid of older meat by grinding it in with fresher meat. Best to buy whole and grind it at home. Nancy


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

I wonder if that is just for raw? Or if you cook it also? (I am totally clueless in the kitchen...  )


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Dee Dee said:


> I wonder if that is just for raw? Or if you cook it also? (I am totally clueless in the kitchen...  )


If you boil the ground beef you will kill any bacteria so it is not an issue. It will also get rid of a lot of the fat.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

if one is following a recipe it has to be EXACT. You cannot substitute meat types or cooking methods. In this recipe it says stewing beef lightly cooked NOT ground beef. Every meat has it's own nutrient profile. Putting Bison into this recipe will not work . Be very careful when following recipes.

Doing it right Jean Dodds 

The biggest concern with homemade diets is that, unless properly formulated and followed, the diet may not be nutritionally balanced. For this reason, I strongly advise that you obtain your recipe from a reputable source, such as a book published by a holistic or holistically minded veterinarian, board-certified veterinary nutritionist, or canine/feline nutritionist where the recipes have been tested and verified as nutritionally balanced. If you are able, you can also consult with a reputable animal nutritionist to design the diet. 

When preparing a homemade diet for your dog or cat, it’s essential to stick to the ingredients listed. Substituting ingredients can result in a diet that is no longer nutritionally balanced. Also, be sure to add all vitamin/mineral and any other supplements as directed; these supplements are essential to ensuring that the diet is properly balanced


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Yes I do boil it to get the fat out so that's good to know. 

I agree Dave! I would never come up with my own recipe, I always do it with the guidance of our holistic vet and follow her instructions to a T. We often have to make tweaks (with Hallie too) so really need someone who knows that they are doing. And do urine and blood tests periodically (I have urine strips so can keep tabs myself).


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Dee Dee said:


> Yes I do boil it to get the fat out so that's good to know.
> 
> I agree Dave! I would never come up with my own recipe, I always do it with the guidance of our holistic vet and follow her instructions to a T. We often have to make tweaks (with Hallie too) so really need someone who knows that they are doing. And do urine and blood tests periodically (I have urine strips so can keep tabs myself).


yes if your nutritionalist says to boil it then fine. She has a reason possibly to remove more fat. This quote recipe does not , it requires more fat for an AVERAGE dog . It is not a dog specific recipe and therefore is very limited in its application.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Right, it is to remove fat. I would worry about even following a good recipe online or from a book, without some kind of guidance, your dogs needs can change and you wouldn't know. We have had to tweak Sophie's diet and supplements several times through this ordeal we've gone through, as we kept learning more about what was going on with her. I know several people who home cook without guidance and aren't adding calcium which is crucial. And of course other stuff as well.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I know you know what I'm saying Dee Dee as we have discussed this privately I am posting it for others benefit >


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

yes me too lol


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

some sources on dog nutrition

monica segal Optimal Nutrition

Dr. Pitcairn Dr. Pitcairn?s Complete Guide | ANHC Education Programs

Catherine Lane Cat Lane - The Possible Canine

Sabine Contreras The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

Diana Laverdure Pet Food Diva - Powerful Pet Nutrition Information to Raise Awesomely Healthy Pets

Dr. Jean Dodds Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Companion Animal Nutrition Articles

Dogs Naturally 2016 Home Page - Dogs Naturally Magazine


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I leave out The Dog Food Advisor. Although of some help , he is not a nutritionist. And at the bottom of the list veterinary prescription diets or big box diets recommended by a vet.

actually Dr. Becker has a diet that is worse 

Dr. Becker ..." #13 Dead last on the list and the worst thing you can feed your pet is an unbalanced, homemade diet – raw or cooked. I'm seeing an increasing number of misguided pet owners in my practice who think they're doing the right thing by serving their pet, say, a chicken breast and some veggies and calling it a day "


the reason iT is last is that although commercial kibble diets are survivable whereas an unbalanced raw or homecooked diet void of certain nutrients can KILL YOUR DOG.


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## AbrilsMama (Jun 24, 2014)

Dee Dee said:


> I wonder if that is just for raw? Or if you cook it also? (I am totally clueless in the kitchen...  )


We boil Abril's ground beef and alternate with chicken breasts. But loved the article also. I add sweet potato and peas in her food right now but am concerned with the nutrition issue. Waiting for vet to get back to us. Abril has not been able to digest the vet food. They want to try one more brand before going to regular food with meds...this is very concerning.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Patty do you add calcium? My understanding is that's very important...how is Abril doing?


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## AbrilsMama (Jun 24, 2014)

That is why I have a message to the vet. Because of the type of stones I do not know if she can have calcium. I want her to have a complete diet. She is more active and full of vinegar than we have ever seen her and she will be 7 in December but I need to get her healthy as the puppy comes the end of August and she too is a cutie.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Argh I am sorry I knew that! My old brain!
Will be curious to hear what vet says. I am SO happy to hear she has been feeling so good! Yeay! Your efforts are paying off! Made my day to hear that. 
Can't wait to see that puppy! A friend of mine has a havie a month younger than Sophie and told me today she's getting a little brother for her. Darling little black guy! Makes me want to go puppy shopping again! Not that I will but window shopping is always fun.


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