# What can I do about my fighting dogs?



## smooter (Mar 17, 2008)

We had a two year old female Maltese (Zoey) and adopted an 8 week old female Havanese puppy (Maggie). The two dogs played together really well until the Havanese started getting bigger than the Maltese. At that point the Havanese became very dominant and bossy to the Maltese. For example, the Havanese would not let the Maltese eat until the Havanese was finished eating. The Havanese would steal toys from the Maltese and never let the Maltese play with any toys. The Havanese is now 10 months old and weighs twice as much as the Maltese. The Havanese will not let the Maltese eat any chew bones. Even if we put three or four bones out, the Havanese will hoard all of them. If the Maltese picks one up or starts to chew on one the Havanese will come and take it from her. We just chalked all that up to Alpha behavior, but recently the dogs have engaged in very vicious fights, generally over the fact that the Maltese has a chew bone and the Havanese tries to take it away from her. The Havanese has drawn blood from the Maltese's neck on one occasion but it could of been from us trying to pull them apart. Yet at other times the dogs seem to be great friends and will play with and chase each other. However we are very concerned about the viciousness of their fights and fear that the Havanese will seriously injure the Maltese. Is it possible for us to train the dogs not to fight?


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

That would be terrifying to me. I'm sure there is training that could help but this behavior has obviously been going on for a long time. One thing I know I would do is give the Maltese bones (or anything else) while the Havanese was in an ex pen so she clearly understood you wanted the Maltese to have it. If she growled or otherwise acted in an aggressive manner I would turn her on her back and let her know that you're the alpha and that her behavior was not acceptable.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of really good advice here.


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## smooter (Mar 17, 2008)

Thank you so much for your help. It is so hard to see it when it happens. I love both my dogs so much but I have to stop this behavior. I would stop giving them chew bones but Maggie needs to have things to chew on or she chews on other things. She is really the funniest dog and we have enjoyed so much the Havanese breed of dog. They have so much personality.


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

I would talk with a dog trainer and see what they suggest. 
Todd can be dominant with other dogs with toys and treats and so I always try to make him wait for his toy or treat until after the other dog gets theirs.
He doesn't always like it but when I put him in a sit and say "wait" he listens or he doesn't get his toy/treat and he knows that and so he usually listens. 
If he tries to take away something that another dog has I tell him "drop it!" or "leave it!" and give it back. 
NILF (Nothing in Life is Free) can also be helpful. Here's a website..
http://www.pets.ca/articles/article-dog_nilf.htm


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Are they both spayed?

I have a few ideas, but I'm not a trainer. You need a behaviorist to get involved to teach you how to handle it.


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## smooter (Mar 17, 2008)

Yes both are spayed. Maggie was just recently about 3 weeks ago. I was hoping that would help. I've look into a trainer and got a referral from our veterinarian but wanted to see if any of you had the same problem. When I researched Havanese dogs before getting Maggie I read that they were great with other dogs. My problem may have been that my Maltese isn't so great with other dogs.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Well, like people, not all dogs are compatible. There are some people I don't like and it doesn't mean anything is wrong with them. Fortunately, dogs are much easier to teach to get along than people are. That's why I think a behaviorist would be beneficial for you.


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

Do they both have crates or their own space? One thought is to only let them have their chew treats (i.e. bones, bullies, etc) when they are in their own space. Do they fight as much over the toys, or is it more the food treats? 
It may be that Maggie is food aggressive. In which case I think feeding her in her crate, treats in crate, etc...may be needed for harmony. I have to do this with my german shepherds because my male is food aggressive...they eat in their crates and get bones/treats in their crates only.


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## smooter (Mar 17, 2008)

Maggie really is just aggressive over chew bones. She allows Zoey treats and toys. I guess she will sometimes try to take them but Zoey willing gives them up. But there is no mean fighting that goes on unless it is with certain chew bones. I even put out like 4 of them at a time so that Maggie can see that there are plenty of them but she just then hoards them. I think I will try using their crates for them just to have the chew bones. I think that is a great idea. Thank you. If that doesn't work I'll call a behaviorist. They are both such great dogs I'm going to make this work! If I can. If not I will get help.


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

I think it is worth a try. Let us know how it goes.


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## smooter (Mar 17, 2008)

Ok so I put Maggie in her crate and gave her a chew bone and did the same for Zoey. Maggie didn't do anything with hers and Zoey wouldn't even go near her chew bone because Maggie kept growling. Ugh! So I put Zoey in another room and still neither of them would chew on the bones. I think Maggie was to preoccupied with where Zoey and the other bone was. So I took the bones away and let them out. Maggie ran to the counter that the bones were on and kept jumping up to try and get them but she left Zoey alone. So I guess that's a good sign that she didn't attack Zoey for having one. I'll try it again later and see if they get used to the idea. We'll see.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Are you taking the dogs for daily walks? Have you taken either or both of them to "doggy school?" How are you establishing yourself as head of the pack? Sounds to me like pent up energy and dominance coming out as aggression. I too suggest taking them both to "school" and finding a new "outlet" for the behavior.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Kimberly could be quite correct . This is not a simple issue. In the mean time here is a good article.From Dr. Dunbar's Video "Dog Aggression: Fighting": 

Dogs react fast, and sometimes get angry toward each other, just like people. The difference is that dogs respond immediately then, typically, forget about it once the disagreement is resolved. 

Some 90% of a puppyUs time is spent biting other puppies. This is part of developing bite inhibition, in which young dogs learn how to control their jaws. The optimal time for dogs to develop bite inhibition is between two and four and a half months of age. Dogs need free play as puppies with puppies and mother dog to develop their bite inhibition. (See last week's Tip on Bite Inhibition, which is posted on the PAW website under Pet Tips.) 

Dunbar cites some general principles: 

* Dogs initiate fighting when they do not feel secure around other dogs. 

* The top dog knows he's boss and usually is able assert rank within 3 seconds. Usually, the top dog does not have to resort to actual fighting to prove his point. 

* Middle-ranking order male dogs feel insecure and in need of proving something. 

* Females have the potential to engage in fights, and to be as tenacious as males. When females fight with female or male dogs, often it's to gain a possession. 

* Dogs perceive neutered dogs as less of a threat. With male dogs, neutering reduces the chances dogs will bite and neutering is linked with a reduction in several kinds of aggression. 

* Dogs may also display aggression to dogs who approach them outside, especially when their owner gets tense in the presence of other dogs and yanks on the dog's collar. For example, the dog may be communicating to the other dog: "Go away! When dogs like you appear, my owner gets upset and gives me a punishment." 

* Dogs growl at younger dogs in an attempt to put youngsters in their place. By the way, many male dogs have testosterone peaks between 10 months and one year of age, explaining why they seem more hyper. Dogs can smell testosterone. 

* When dogs growl at younger dogs, this leads to the development of active appeasement on the part of the lower-ranking dog. The lower-ranking dog learns to show deference, which signals that he understands and respects the hierarchy. So then, typically, the older/more dominant dog will let the youngster play. 

* Playing is more than having fun for dogs; it's a way to compete and a way to establish rank. 

Positive steps you can take: 

* Socialize your pup. You can keep him nearby when you're home by tethering him to you with a leash. Praise the dog whenever he does good, and whenever he stops aggressive look or other undesirable behavior. 

* Most people ignore good behavior. But it is important to praise and reward good behavior in order to encourage the dog to repeat it. Solicit and praise good behavior, instead of punishing the bad. 

* Dunbar suggests teaching the command, "GENTLY," which can be useful in diverting dogs from a fight. "SIT" and "OFF" are also important commands. It is important to be able to redirect your dog's attention to you -- and thus away from another dog who may be engaging in challenging eye contact and aggressive or otherwise undesirable behaviors. 

* Do not tense up with the leash or yell during the approach of another dog. That can make your dog associate the sight of another dog with punishment. 

* Remember that timing is everything, and that it is crucial for you to develop the ability to redirect your dogUs attention back to you. 

By the way, Dunbar cautions against using tranquilizers, which affect bite inhibition (a learned behavior). You want the dog to be able to inhibit his own bite. 

Some people attend "growl classes" with their aggressive dogs, at which they work on moderating the dogUs reactive behavior. The dogs wear muzzles and the owners keep them on leash until the end of the classes, at which point participants work the dogs off leash. DunbarUs video included footage from a "growl" class. 

3. Tips for avoiding


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Hoarding seems to be a Havanese Behaviour . One of my dogs does it as well . We also have periods of time when they disagree over who gets to sit closet to me and also about who gets which Flossie . it got to the point where I picked them up and did not let them have them for a while . NO flossies - no treats .. nada .. 
I also sometimes give one of them a time out .. remove him from the situation and put him in the crate for 5 minutes .. I let them know this is not accceptable behaviour .. I say Leave it and give them a time out ..
It seems like you are having hiearchy issues and who belongs where in the pack .. It is hard to correctly assess the situation from where we sit and I think this is why a behaviourist has been suggested . 
They are able to watch you dogs and make an accurate assessment and suggestions ..
I think the program itis me or the dog has done a few programs on this type of behaviour ..
I do have one comment Donna & I have a friend who has a maltese and he can be very disagreeable at times . Asta & Tulip were very friendly and easy going and Niki was always picking a fight .. 
He was an only dog and very indulged by his Mom & Dad ..


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## smooter (Mar 17, 2008)

Yes I do walk my dogs everyday for a good mile to a mile and a half. I also go outside for play times during the day throwing a soft frisbee or ball using commands and rewarding with treats. My Maltese isn't as interested in the play time but loves the walks. Maggie loves everything! I took Zoey to puppy school through the Pet Smart program but felt I could socialize Maggie and teach everything I taught Zoey two years earlier. I'm giving commands and teaching them I'm the pack leader by having them work for everything like having them sit before I put the lashes on. I make them sit while I go through the door. Then allow them to come. They are taught "off" and "down
I'm trying to be consistent at the same time as learning the differences in Havanese verses Maltese breeds. I'm wondering if my Maltese is just having a hard time giving up her seniority? Thank you for all your comments everything helps to reinforce what I need to remember in training my dogs.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*one fight in four years*

My dogs have been together since Daisy was 12 weeks and Riki 10 months. They had one fight about three months ago, and it was over a bully stick. I couldn't believe it. It wasn't play, it was a fight.

I took the bully stick away and that was the end of it. Daisy started it by growling at Riki who is bigger over not taking her bully after he ate his. Usually they shift back and forth and it has never been a problem.

It was scary for a moment, the two best friends going at it like that. They eat out of the same bowl, they share everything. No more bully sticks here though.

I hope you can find something that works. Smaller dogs sometimes get tired of being pushed around. I tell them leave it when they act up...and that is the end of that.


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## smooter (Mar 17, 2008)

I'm so sad to report we had another incident tonight. I put Maggie in her crate and gave her a bone to chew she started her growling thing so my husband took the bone from her and told her "no growl". We let her out of her crate and she went sniffing around. Well Zoey in the mean time went up to Maggies crate not in it but just up to it. Maggie went up to Zoey and then the fight started. I think Maggie thought maybe Zoey was going for the bone but it wasn't in the crate anymore. This time I didn't give Zoey a bone because she didn't seem interested. After this trial and error we know we need help. My husband and I decided to get a trainers help. We know it needs to be corrected for the dogs safety and for our peace of mind. I feel so bad that I couldn't correct this problem. In a way I feel I am letting them down by not being able to control the situation enough to stop it from happening. I have been sharing this with a neighbor and she is willing to take Maggie for her kids to have a dog but I just can't do it I love her too much. It would brake my heart to have to give her away. I just hope I find a great trainer who can help. I really appreciate all of the help I have received from all of you. I signed up for this forum in March and never got around to figuring out how to use it until I got desperate with this new situation my dogs have been having. It has really given me the help I was looking for and the support I needed. Thank you so much. I will let you know how things work out. I'm still learning about Havanese dogs so I'm sure I will have more questions coming your way.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I hope the trainer can help you with this!


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*her breeder*

Have you talked to your havanese breeder? Has she had any experience with any of her dogs acting up a bit?

I do hope that the behaviorist can help you. It is wonderful when two dogs get along, they can have such fun. Maltese can be characters, there is one at the dog park who is a toughie. Some havvies can be tough too. We have one in our club who is a real alpha girl.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

When you are looking for a trainer, keep in mind that there are no qualifications needed to be called "a trainer." Instead, look for certification in one of the dog training groups. A *behaviorist* is a very specialized trainer.

Also, be sure to let the trainer/behaviorist know that you are specifically needing help with *dog aggression* (dog on dog problems). A trainer will understand the difference in how to work with you on this as it is different from _human_ or _stranger aggression _(dogs flipping out at humans).

Any solution is going to take work. It looks like a pattern of behavior has been created, so once you get the corrective measures in place it will take some diligence on your part to make it happen, but that will make it all the more worthwhile too.

Best wishes for a quick resolution and a peaceful, enjoyable home.


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

I'm glad you are getting a trainer, please interview more then one to find one that suits your needs and has experience with dog aggression.

In the mean time, if it were me, I would take the bones away for a time (maybe even a month or two)...then I would re-introduce the bones to them in the crates...if they wont chew them in the crates, then they must not really want the bone. 

You still need to work with a trainer though...sounds like Maggie is trying to be the alpha and she needs to know that isn't her place, it is yours.  Let us know how it goes!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I feel your pain in this one. I had my DD’s Matilda for 3 months. She and Smarty never become friends. They did tolerate each other at times but we would have some really serious fights that were very frightening. We called in a well respected dog trainer that did help, but not around the dog bones. We finally decided they would only have bones in their crate and at no other time. When they came out we had a couple of fights when Matilda approached Smarty’s crate. After that the only time they had bones was if one was in the office and the other was in another room with the door closed. That seemed to work better than the crates for us. I was to the point of no bones for either of them, ever if their teeth rotted out. Good luck


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I agree - it is a behaviourist not a trainer .. It makes all the difference .. and they should have that on their credentials ..
Do not feel like you have failed or let your animals down .. Absolutely no way !! If you child was failing Geometry and you did not have the math skills to help him you would hire a tutor ..
Same thing .. You are hiring a tutor for a brief period of time .. Once you get the information you need and you follow through you will no longer need them .. 
the good thing is you realize there is a poblem and you are going to seek help ..
Do not be discouraged if you need to consult more than one ..
I was fortunate the first one I found was absolutely amazing and gave me the information and confidence to correct the issues we were having at the time ..


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

smooter said:


> I just hope I find a great trainer who can help. .


I'm a dog trainer and that's one I'd turn over to someone who deals with behavior issues.
If it was my own dogs I'd deal with it, but I'm with them and can monitor them all the time. My own dogs used to grab treats out of my hands until I put my foot down. Now they gather around me and when they hear their name, they take the treat from my hand gently and know not to touch it unless their name has been said.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

smooter said:


> but recently the dogs have engaged in very vicious fights,


If you have to break up a fight, try grabbing the tails and lifting the back feet off of the ground. That usually stops a fight quickly and saves your hands


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