# Help! I think my puppy is depressed or has the blues



## Brody Brown (Dec 27, 2008)

Hi.. Well let me first start off that my name is Jennifer and I have recently purchased a brand new baby boy Havanese we named Brody on 12-26-08. He was born on 10-21-08, and we purchased him from our local Petland in El Paso. Brody is the cutest thing ever! We are a family of 5, with 3 children ages 7,5,3... Brody seems very mild mannered and mellow.. We are going to be crate training him. The first two nights we have had him, he has actually not yelped or cried at all in his crate at night.. As a matter of fact, he whimpered only in the morning to be put outside and then quickly did his thing and was brought back inside!! We have him running around the house during the day and feeding him 3x a times at 7a, 2p, and 7p. I've noticed he seems to be a little more attached to me than any one else in the home. The kids are great with him, with the occasional hoarding over him, and trying to pick him up. They are learning as well.. Ok.... so for my concern, tonight we started a movie and put him on the bed with us. He was really quiet and walked to the edge of the bed and lay with his head away from everyone and just lay there. Didnt nod off or sleep. I tried pulling him in closer and once again he just walked off and lay down again the same way. My husband tried doing the same thing, and again he walked away and lay down. I know his temperment seems to be mild and very mellow, however this struck me cause it wasnt behavior he has expressed before. Ther was (is) something different about him. I sensed sadness or maybe stress?? Maybe i am being paranoid as I feel like he really is my 4th child.. I guess my question is... Is there such thing as puppy depression, and how can I help him???


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Gosh, I think Brody sounds fine. He is now feeling comfortable enough to lie down a bit away from you. My 2 yr old Hav and 4 month old Hav do this all the time~~sometimes they feel too warm being right next to you. They do like a bit of space and quiet !  And with so many small children handling him, this makes even more sense.

At 8 wks he is a very young Hav, and in your busy household he may be a bit overwhelmed/overstimulated. I would give him some space and quiet time. Does he have an ex-pen with a little bed or blanket where he can be put for some down time to rest away from the children? As long as he is eating, sleeping, eliminating normally, I wouldn't worry . Welcome to the forum !

I should add, though, that I've never been around a puppy this young and some of the breeders on the Forum may have more to say. And, I hope you've had him checked by a Vet to be sure he is healthy and updated on his puppy shots.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Welcome, Brody is so cute! Our dog does the same thing, I think it's their way of staying close to us but having their own space at the same time. He's going to attach to one of you, if you're doing most of his care/feeding then it will be you. I'd have everyone in the house feed him, brush him and take him out for potty time so he gets used to you all. I made the mistake of doing it all at first!

Has he been to the vet yet? That would be my first step just to be sure he's healthy.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Jennifer, 

First of all, welcome to the group and to the wonderful world of havanese. You've only had Brody for a couple of days. He's still in his adjustment period, finding his place in his new world and his new pack. Nothing you've mentioned would give me any concern about your little boy. I would have to agree, just to be safe, make sure he's seen by your vet. Otherwise just enjoy him as he turns your world upside down and makes you laugh with his antics.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

He sounds just like my first shih tzu. He never cried in his crate, he actually laid down in my bed and watched tv away from me. I just thought he was a really good puppy, lol! Now, he's my shadow. He's never been much on being held, but he likes being right next to me no matter where I am. 

Brody is so cute! Please post more pics!!  Oh, and how rude of me. Welcome to the forum!!


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Welcome to the forum! You will gain so much information here, and everyone is so helpful. Brody is a doll, and his color is beautiful. He sounds very well behaved and normal. My dog will always stay close to me, and he follows me from room to room. However, he usually lays a foot or two away, as he prefers a little space. He's also not too big on being held or sitting on a lap (unless he's scared). Brody sounds fine!
Gina


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. He's still a little young pup. When you're that young, there's lots to learn and it can get tiring. He needs a good amount of nap-time and quiet rest time.

I used to put Henry down for naps early on - just to help him manage his energy. And it was just the two of us plus the cat. No other family members in the home.

Good luck and we'll look forward to seeing you here on the forum.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I would definitely say take him to the vet as most puppies are energetic and make sure nothing is wrong on that front. Have a blood panel run as he could have parvo or something like that. You also need to remember and really take in consideration that you purchased a puppy that was raised in a puppy mill. He probably grew up in a small cage where his mother has lived for years. Wasn't socialized until he was parted from his mother at probably 5 weeks old and then sold in a pet store. He probably feels most secure in his cage away from people how he grew up. I would imagine a puppy that lived in those conditions would be sad and stressed in a household. It is a big change. I would highly recommend some training classes as soon as you find out he is healthy.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Welcome to the forum!

Ryan


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Amy R. said:


> Gosh, I think Brody sounds fine. He is now feeling comfortable enough to lie down a bit away from you. My 2 yr old Hav and 4 month old Hav do this all the time~~sometimes they feel too warm being right next to you. They do like a bit of space and quiet !  And with so many small children handling him, this makes even more sense.
> 
> At 8 wks he is a very young Hav, and in your busy household he may be a bit overwhelmed/overstimulated. I would give him some space and quiet time. Does he have an ex-pen with a little bed or blanket where he can be put for some down time to rest away from the children? As long as he is eating, sleeping, eliminating normally, I wouldn't worry . Welcome to the forum !
> 
> I should add, though, that I've never been around a puppy this young and some of the breeders on the Forum may have more to say. And, I hope you've had him checked by a Vet to be sure he is healthy and updated on his puppy shots.


I couldn't agree more with this. I honestly don't think you need to take him to the vet just because he wants some space and quiet time. I'm sure with all the kids around that he's getting quite a bit of stimulation and definitely needs a quiet space that he can retreat to if needed.

Sounds like a normal puppy to me.


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

First let me say WELCOME!!! Now, Finnegan, my 4 month old, does this all the time. I think that is their "alone Time" - so as not to be too far from the family. Brody is a doll!!!


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## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

Ok, I'm sorry, but don't you think this is a little harsh? While I am definitely not for buying a pet store puppy because you just don't know about the background, how can you just state the puppy's history as a fact? Do all petstore puppies always come from puppy mills? Our local petstore deals with small homebreeders that they approve first (still not great, but not like the caged, crammed disease ridden places you see etc. )
If I came here for help and support and get slammed like this in the first post, I'd get the heck out of this place never to be seen again....

The question was about the puppy's behaviour and to me it just sounds very normal. Lots of Hav's aren't big snugglers and while they love being close to you, they often seem to prefer not to be that close. Marley is just now slowly turning into more of a snuggler, but he still picks and chooses the times he wants to be really close and the times he prefers to linger around.

Welcome to the forum!!!



ama0722 said:


> I would definitely say take him to the vet as most puppies are energetic and make sure nothing is wrong on that front. Have a blood panel run as he could have parvo or something like that. You also need to remember and really take in consideration that you purchased a puppy that was raised in a puppy mill. He probably grew up in a small cage where his mother has lived for years. Wasn't socialized until he was parted from his mother at probably 5 weeks old and then sold in a pet store. He probably feels most secure in his cage away from people how he grew up. I would imagine a puppy that lived in those conditions would be sad and stressed in a household. It is a big change. I would highly recommend some training classes as soon as you find out he is healthy.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Jennifer, Welcome to the forum. Brody is adorable. He might be just a bit overwhelmed with all the changes in his young life. I wouldn't panic but I'd keep an eye on him just the same. If he seems lethargic or doesn't want to eat or drink, take him to the vet. More likely, he's just settling in. If he's eating well and drinking plenty of water and seems otherwise fine, I'd let him have some space. You might have a pup that doesn't like "squishy" hugs. I have one like that. I also have one that isn't a lap sitter or cuddler unless she's tired. 
Again, welcome!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Alexa said:


> Ok, I'm sorry, but don't you think this is a little harsh? While I am definitely not for buying a pet store puppy because you just don't know about the background, how can you just state the puppy's history as a fact? Do all petstore puppies always come from puppy mills? Our local petstore deals with small homebreeders that they approve first (still not great, but not like the caged, crammed disease ridden places you see etc. )
> If I came here for help and support and get slammed like this in the first post, I'd get the heck out of this place never to be seen again....
> 
> The question was about the puppy's behaviour and to me it just sounds very normal. Lots of Hav's aren't big snugglers and while they love being close to you, they often seem to prefer not to be that close. Marley is just now slowly turning into more of a snuggler, but he still picks and chooses the times he wants to be really close and the times he prefers to linger around.
> ...


Alexa- I am 100% sure no decent breeder would sell a 5-6 week old puppy to a petstore. I previously lived near a petland actually pretty close to petlands headquarters, amish mills, etc in Ohio. I have seen how those dogs were raised and have learned a lot about puppy mills. I do not think I am being harsh but honest. I would think it would be very tramatic for a dog raised in those conditions and my involvement with rescue has shown that it is very traumatic for dogs. I think training is the best thing to do from here as she already has the puppy. While puppy temperaments will vary and not all havs are snugglers, when a puppy grows up in a tiny cage, it is going to have a huge affect on its temperament. You may want to google petland and puppy mills and you can see many many stories. Here is one but there are many many more.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27822309/

I am not saying there is nothing you can do for the puppy, as training and socialization can do wonders especially since the puppy is so young. That is why I highly encourage it  I just wouldn't chalk up a puppy that came from a petstore just not being a cuddler.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi Jennifer, I am sure he is just getting used to his new surroundings and all the stimulation of a family. And it could have a little to do with him being in a pet shop-- where they do not get a lot of socialization, but he is young enough that your love and TLC will bring him around.

But I also want to say, that my Jasper was very much like Brody as a puppy. (He also was from a breeder who may have kept the pups isolated ) And just until recently I think he was depressed (he will be three in january) The things that concerned me as he got older, was he would sulk away and want to be really by himself in a little room in our garage (his potty room) he would get better for a bit and then retreat again... But when he stopped wanting to go for walks I knew something was really wrong. A sprained leg was what gave me insight to what was going on... when Jasper sprained his leg and went on pain medication, after 3 days he started playing again and wanted to be petted. So I went to our Vet with this insight and we started him on Joint suppliments... 2 weeks later, and to this day he is a new dog. We also changed his food. And this also seems to have an effect on him. I read an article in Bark magazine that underlying pain conditions are often the cause of behavioral issues with dogs.

here is a link to my whole discovery if you want to know more. 
http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=5122

So I just want to throw that out to you, if Brody does start to retreat more...do ask the vet about an underlying pain condition... But I am sure he is just getting used to life with the 5 of you. Brody is so cute. Please keep us posted.


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

Hi, and welcome. My Graice, 6 months today, has done this same thing since I brought her home. When my husband and I are snuggled up on the couch, she would rather be a foot or two away from us...

If he is eating and pooping normally, I wouldn't worry too much...just give him lots of love and attention. A vet check should be part of the first week home no matter where you get a puppy.


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## Shada (Feb 4, 2007)

Alexa said:


> Ok, I'm sorry, but don't you think this is a little harsh? While I am definitely not for buying a pet store puppy because you just don't know about the background, how can you just state the puppy's history as a fact? Do all petstore puppies always come from puppy mills? Our local petstore deals with small homebreeders that they approve first (still not great, but not like the caged, crammed disease ridden places you see etc. )
> If I came here for help and support and get slammed like this in the first post, I'd get the heck out of this place never to be seen again....
> 
> The question was about the puppy's behaviour and to me it just sounds very normal. Lots of Hav's aren't big snugglers and while they love being close to you, they often seem to prefer not to be that close. Marley is just now slowly turning into more of a snuggler, but he still picks and chooses the times he wants to be really close and the times he prefers to linger around.
> ...


http://www.hsus.org/pets/pets_related_news_and_events/petland_puppy_mill_112008.html

I don't believe this post was harsh at all. Sadly it is reality. The reality is that pups from Petland have been proven to come from puppy mills. And yes this will have an impact on its life. 
The poster tried to explain that the living conditions prior to being sold at Petland was not in the pups best interest.. these dogs are not socialized and minimal care is given. Many petstore pups have health issues directly attributed to the way they are bred and raised.

Jennifer, welcome to the forum! Tons of information here, lots of caring people that love this breed.. looking forward to happy updates of your little Brody! A vet visit will help you and Brody get a good start.. hopefully little Brody will be fine and have a long healthy life with you and your family.
He is a cutie. I wish you all the best with him!


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

Gryff was also very much like that when we first got him - still is sometimes. Right now, he's laying on the floor about a foot away from me. When he was a little puppy, I would wonder where he was and find him in his crate by himself downstairs. He just needed some time to sleep (alot) and adjust to his new surroundings. I too thought that there was something mentally wrong with him. It just took some time.

Welcome to the forum. Oh, and petstores and their links to puppy mills are are a BIG issue here. Don't be offended.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Brody Brown said:


> Hi.. Well let me first start off that my name is Jennifer and I have recently purchased a brand new baby boy Havanese we named Brody on 12-26-08. He was born on 10-21-08, and we purchased him from our local Petland in El Paso. Brody is the cutest thing ever! We are a family of 5, with 3 children ages 7,5,3... Brody seems very mild mannered and mellow.. We are going to be crate training him. The first two nights we have had him, he has actually not yelped or cried at all in his crate at night.. As a matter of fact, he whimpered only in the morning to be put outside and then quickly did his thing and was brought back inside!! We have him running around the house during the day and feeding him 3x a times at 7a, 2p, and 7p. I've noticed he seems to be a little more attached to me than any one else in the home. The kids are great with him, with the occasional hoarding over him, and trying to pick him up. They are learning as well.. Ok.... so for my concern, tonight we started a movie and put him on the bed with us. He was really quiet and walked to the edge of the bed and lay with his head away from everyone and just lay there. Didnt nod off or sleep. I tried pulling him in closer and once again he just walked off and lay down again the same way. My husband tried doing the same thing, and again he walked away and lay down. I know his temperment seems to be mild and very mellow, however this struck me cause it wasnt behavior he has expressed before. Ther was (is) something different about him. I sensed sadness or maybe stress?? Maybe i am being paranoid as I feel like he really is my 4th child.. I guess my question is... Is there such thing as puppy depression, and how can I help him???


Hi Jennifer and :welcome:, Brody is adorable, indeed.

As a mom w. a family of 9 (7 kids..think Brady bunch) and one Havanese, I can tell you that is 110% normal, at least from my experience. The one thing I noticed when Gucci was a puppy that she loved her sleep/rest and they need it. I think a houseful of kids can really wear a dog out, especially when there is one dog and 3+ children that want to play with him or her!

I know every other weekend I have all 7 kids here and Gucci does get to where she needs to go lay down alone, I call it her 'Me time', and I've finally gotten the kids to where they respect her naps/rests, of course, when they are new to the house the kids are always more excited.

She has always slept in the bed with us and the only time I've ever heard her grumble at my DH was when he woke her up, lol...She won't do it now, she knows it is a no-no, but she just wants to be alone sometimes to sleep, other times, she'll snuggle, but if she's hot, I notice she'd rather lay alone to cool off.

I really wouldn't read too much into it, maybe that is just the *spot* he has decided he likes, for whatever reason, or just needed rest, rest isn't always about sleeping! Just like we sometimes need to sit and chill out for a bit.

Oh, and Gucci is more focused on me than anyone else, Get the kids to help with feeding him and taking him out, so he knows that everyone is providing for him and caring for him.

Kara


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Welcome Jennifer and Brody. I think the first week they are getting use to new people, new sounds, new smells, etc. and he just wants some alone time to relax. Cicero does not like being on our bed and when he is there he stays at the foot waiting to jump when he's ready. He doesn't get on the back of our sofa like lots of others enjoy. I think he is just afraid of heights. It sounds to me like Brody is normal -- and before long you will not be able to catch him!! Enjoy.


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## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

But how do you know all that??? If the pup was born 10-21 and she got him on 12-26, that makes the puppy 9.5 weeks old at the time of purchase. So you are saying you KNOW that the dog has been there for 3-4 weeks? I am not seeing anything regarding that. Again, don't get me wrong, I do not support selling dogs through pet stores, I just think we're mixing this discussion into the wrong thread and I just don't think it's fair to give very strong answers and opinions to questions that were simply not asked.

The puppy is their new furbaby, they are proud of it, want to love and want the best for it. Not hear a post filled with "here's where you went wrong right off the bat".

It's like being the proud parent of your first baby and the neighbor shows up and says "wow, looks like he's got Granpa's big honking nose"....you won't hear any well-meaning advice after that...

Ok, I'll shut up now......



ama0722 said:


> Alexa- I am 100% sure no decent breeder would sell a 5-6 week old puppy to a petstore. I previously lived near a petland actually pretty close to petlands headquarters, amish mills, etc in Ohio. I have seen how those dogs were raised and have learned a lot about puppy mills. I do not think I am being harsh but honest. I would think it would be very tramatic for a dog raised in those conditions and my involvement with rescue has shown that it is very traumatic for dogs. I think training is the best thing to do from here as she already has the puppy. While puppy temperaments will vary and not all havs are snugglers, when a puppy grows up in a tiny cage, it is going to have a huge affect on its temperament. You may want to google petland and puppy mills and you can see many many stories. Here is one but there are many many more.
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27822309/
> 
> I am not saying there is nothing you can do for the puppy, as training and socialization can do wonders especially since the puppy is so young. That is why I highly encourage it  I just wouldn't chalk up a puppy that came from a petstore just not being a cuddler.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I agree Alexa... it is done deal and Brody is indeed an adorable pup. But I do feel that knowing some of the behaviors and possible health issues that sometimes arise from these situations will help Jennifer watch out for things and work more on socialization with Brody and her family. 

By the way Welcome to the Forum Jennifer and Brody!


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Brody is adorable! Welcome to the forum 
When Todd came home I felt like a new Mom. 
Every little whimper or the tiniest change in behavior had me either asking questions on this forum or on the phone with the Vet..lol
I think that Brody is probably just going through an adjustment period. Remember that he's probably always had mom and his littermates around to comfort and play with him and this is all new and proabably a little scary for him.
If you feel like he needs to see the vet, by all means make the call, it's better to be safe now than sorry later.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Alexa- While it sucks to hear what a puppy mill is and where pet store puppies come from, I think everyone should know let alone someone who feels their dog may have behavioral problems and posts for help on the forum. Ignoring it would be of no benefit for this puppy or other pet store puppies let alone themothers. Recognizing where the puppy came from and encouraging training and socialization would be in the best interest of this puppy and it's future. 

While she picked up the puppy at 9.5 weeks the day after Christmas. Do you think it was with it's mother up till Christmas day? That is isn't how pet shops or puppy mills work, I am sorry you feel sharing this info is wrong but this is something I am very passionate about educating others on and protecting our breed from being sold at pet stores.

What I would highly recommend is taking the puppy in for health care right away. Many puppies at pet stores are sold with parvo. I wouldn't trust the vet check that petland sends their puppies home with. While I do think there is an adjustment period for any puppy in a new home, I really caution chalking a puppy from a petstore up to just that.


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

:welcome: to you and Brody!

As most others have said, I think Brody is simply adjusting to his new surroundings and situation. Give him a little room and quiet time to relax and take it all in. Keep an eye on him during those times to avoid potty accidents, but let him have his quiet time. In fact, you should create an area that is Brody's 'safety zone' where he can go to escape the kids and activity of the household. This should be an ex-pen or crate with bedding where the children are not allowed to follow or attempt to play or handle him. He's a little puppy and they need plenty of nap time to re-energize and stay healthy. It's not unusual for a puppy to need time to acclimate to his or her new home.

It's definitely good sense to take your new pup to the vet for a check-up within the first week. It gives your vet a baseline for future visits and may catch any problems early on to be treated before they become serious. Since Brody did come from Petland (yes, they are notorious for selling unhealthy pups from puppy mills), it makes even more sense to have him checked out sooner rather than later.

Puppy classes will be very good for building his social skills. Keep up the socialization and training with basic obedience once the puppy classes are done! It'll make life much easier, believe me! Don't forget to socialize him with humans, too. 

Don't be offended if Brody is one of those Havs that likes some personal space. It's just a preference that seems hardwired into some of these guys. My own Pepper is the same way to some extent. While he loves to cuddle on the sofa, he prefers to have stretching space in bed. I find it adorable...he's close enough to keep an eye on me, but he's not crowding my space either. Believe me, I appreciate the distance when I'm trying to turn over in bed and 'run into' our Chi/Pug mix who is pressed against my back, legs, butt and blocking my every move. :frusty:

Again, welcome and we definitely look forward to more Brody pics! hoto:


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Welcome, Brody and Family!

This group of people are the best for advice and support. Glad you found us--I didn't know about this group until just a few months ago.

Now that you already bought Brody, you are going to love that sweet little guy no matter what his background, so it's good to learn as soon as possible about the Pet Store problems. I learned this the hard way 25 years ago, and I'm afraid it has only gotten worse. But, hearing about it early can make sure you are proactive with your little guy, and may be able to head off problems. A vet check by someone other than Petland would be first on my to-do list this week! Let the vet know where you got Brody from. Then, you'll know he didn't come home with something.

Havs are the best, (prejudiced, absolutely!  ) and on this site you'll learn a lot about grooming and all that goes along with them. I hope you keep reading and coming back.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. Glad you found us. 

Brody is really cute. I hope that it is just the adjustting period and he will settle down soon into your loving, caring family. The Havs are the best and you and your family will be wrapped around those tiny paws in no time. Look forward to seeing pictues.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

ama0722 said:


> I would definitely say take him to the vet as most puppies are energetic and make sure nothing is wrong on that front. Have a blood panel run as he could have parvo or something like that. You also need to remember and really take in consideration that you purchased a puppy that was raised in a puppy mill. He probably grew up in a small cage where his mother has lived for years. Wasn't socialized until he was parted from his mother at probably 5 weeks old and then sold in a pet store. He probably feels most secure in his cage away from people how he grew up. I would imagine a puppy that lived in those conditions would be sad and stressed in a household. It is a big change. I would highly recommend some training classes as soon as you find out he is healthy.


Amada I think you are right on the money. There is a lot of huge changes for this very young puppy.

First, a visit to the vet is a must! That will be helpful in the event the puppy has worms or other issues going on that should be checked for with all new puppies NO MATTER where they come.

Second, this puppy is having to adjust to a new home, new faces, young children, strange noises and smells and that alone will cause it to be stressed and that in turn can cause it to not eat well, be withdrawn, have 
diarrhea and/or vomiting.

Third, this puppies temperament could just be that he does need some "space", but it would be wise to eliminate everything else first.

Fourth, since it is too young to have all of it's shots, I would not take him to training classes, but for now I would buy the book, HOW TO TRAIN A PUPPY YOU CAN LIVE WITH and I would buy the video for the kids to watch too as they play a very important role in how this puppy will develope from here on out. You can purchase both the book and the tape from www.dogwise.com

Last, yes it is a very sad fact that puppies come from puppy mills that are sold in pet stores. They might call themselves "breeders" but they in fact are not breeders that are breeding to improve the breed.


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## Brody Brown (Dec 27, 2008)

*thank you*

First I'd like to thank everyone who responded.. wow. what a response. there were some really helpful and interesting subjects that came up. As far as the whole purchasing from Petland, He had been there for 4 days before we purchased him, and i am actually glad that i was able to 'save' him. Brody will definately have the best home and loving care that he could possibly get here at my home. A keeper to the core! It seems to be the concensus that he is adjusting and just trying to find his place as well as maybe needing his own space. Most definately he has been scheduled for a vet visit tomorrow. I will certainly post more pics and am SURE that i will be asking more questions. Thank you all so much for the info. Much appreciated!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Hope the vet finds little Brody to be in the pink of health! He sure is a cutie!


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Welcome to the forum. Brody is adorable! I agree that you should have him checked by your vet. My daughter bought her dog from a pet store and brought it to their vet who said she was fine. Two days later, terrible case of kennel cough. The pet store paid the bill, but you just can't trust them. I'm sure the vet will give Brody a clean bill of health.

As long as he is acting normal at other times, I wouldn't worry about him not snuggling with you during quiet times. My Havs are 2 and 3 yrs old and have just started wanting more lap time. And when we watch tv in bed, one will be on our pillows and the other one will be at the foot of the bed.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Kathy said:


> Amada I think you are right on the money. There is a lot of huge changes for this very young puppy.
> 
> First, a visit to the vet is a must! That will be helpful in the event the puppy has worms or other issues going on that should be checked for with all new puppies NO MATTER where they come.
> 
> ...


I agree 100 percent with Kathy and Amanda. Just wanted to say that publicly.

Also, welcome to the forum, it's a great place. I'm glad you are in love with Brody, but I do think it's kind of a catch 22 to "save" a dog from a pet store which more than likely perpetuates the cycle of more havanese coming from puppy mills.

Sorry if this seems harsh, it's not meant to be, but this is a public forum and if I didn't denounce puppy mills and stores that sell dogs publicly I wouldn't be speaking out against something I think is really terrible.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Welcome...*

Riki is not a lap dog. While he is always within ten feet of me, he doesn't sit on my lap ever. He is obedient, smart, loving...but he is a dog and wants his space.

Now Daisy is my lap girl...still she prefers to sleep on her own. Both of my dogs have their spots, Riki likes to sit between the couch and the end table sort of like a cave. Daisy likes to stay on the pillow of the couch or on the recliner that is very padded.

When I am driving, they both want to sit on my lap though and they need to stay in the back seat. At night, they sleep near me if I am on the small bed but down at the bottom near my feet or at my side if I am in the bigger bed.

The question is...does your puppy follow you when you go out of the room? That is the one thing I would watch as it does seem that my dogs follow me.

When Riki and Daisy were both puppies they did tire of my daughter who was noisy and squeaky. Now that she is older and calmer, they like her more...but they still like me best. I am the alpha of the house, I feed them, I trained them, and I take them on their bathroom walks.

Your dog is adorable. I hope he is healthy and fine. Vet checks are always good. I took both of mine to the vet as soon as I got them just to have a standard of care.

You will learn a great deal here about these dogs and how much we love them. You are welcome here and will make lots of new friends.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

how's the little guy doing?
Get checked by the vet?
I am sure he's fine.
kisses to him.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Yes, I've been wondering, too. Hope the check up was all clear!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

At his age, I'd think he'd be quite a bit more active, but he is also going through a huge adjustment moving into your home. I definitely agree that you should get him to your vet right away. Between coming from a puppy mill and living in a pet store for several days, you have a much higher possibility of him having kennel cough, parvo, giardia, and/or coccidia. Just make sure your vet is checking Brody out for these things for you. If you see any symptoms of vomiting or diahrea, do not hestitate to get him the vet ASAP.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

*I am rooting for Brody to have a great vet check.

I do agree with Alexa that it's unfair and insensitive to lecture and moralise to our new member, who comes here with an open mind and heart, asking for advice and support, especially when none of us actually knows for a fact this particular puppy's precise history. Puppies are resilient and the odds are, whatever his background, he will be fine and make a wonderful pet. Buying a puppy is a profoundly emotional and personal experience and I think there is a kinder, more tactful way to educate newcomers to the Forum than to, right at the outset, say in so many words, you're an ignorant person who made an immoral choice. Now that's helpful.

A few weeks ago some poor newbie was buying a puppy from an apparently shady breeder, and the hectoring of that person became so intolerable to me as I was reading it that I was wincing. Let's remember there's an actual person on the other side of the computer screen, and that this isn't just some abstract soapbox.

I would also like to suggest that those with expertise and strong convictions re this topic start an entire educational thread on the relationship between puppy mills and pet stores, how wisely to choose a breeder. . . etc. etc. The basics. I certainly would like to learn more. That would be helpful and educational without personally focusing on, and no doubt embarassing or even driving away , a particular new member and their beloved pet.*


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

My quick reply without reading everyone else. My puppy was born about the same time as your puppy. At times, he will want to get away from me because he is tired and wants to sleep. Dexter loves me and stays with me when I am around the house, if I am busy doing something, Dexter will lay at my feet.


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

Amy this was very well said, I too agree with Alexa. 12 years ago, I purchased my Hamlet from a pet store, had no clue about puppy mills. Through this forum I learned so much, thanks - but I think if I had received these responses when I was new here I *would have went running*. Even when I got Seamus I had not been as educated so I'm not sure if that breeder had all the health testing etc. But because of this forum, and the education I received by reading here things were very different in getting Finnegan!

Jennifer and Brody - PLEASE STAY!!!! We NEED to see more pics and would love hearing from you guys. My Finnegan is around the same age so lets share experiences and stories (Hav stories always seem to be the best!!!)



Amy R. said:


> *I am rooting for Brody to have a great vet check.
> 
> I do agree with Alexa that it's unfair and insensitive to lecture and moralise to our new member, who comes here with an open mind and heart, asking for advice and support, especially when none of us actually knows for a fact this particular puppy's precise history. Puppies are resilient and the odds are, whatever his background, he will be fine and make a wonderful pet. Buying a puppy is a profoundly emotional and personal experience and I think there is a kinder, more tactful way to educate newcomers to the Forum than to, right at the outset, say in so many words, you're an ignorant person who made an immoral choice. Now that's helpful.
> 
> ...


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Amy R. said:


> *I do agree with Alexa that it's unfair and insensitive to lecture and moralise to our new member, who comes here with an open mind and heart, asking for advice and support, especially when none of us actually knows for a fact this particular puppy's precise history. *


I didn't read any post that was lecturing or moralizing the original poster Amy. What I read were caring people trying to help and educate. I take offense to your comments. This thread is a good thread to educate many people not only on how a 9 week old might typically be, but also the reason's why a 9 week old puppy might be a certain way and one of those reasons could be where the puppy was purchased. Puppies are a product of their enviornment, just like humans. It is a FACT where pet store puppies come from.

I am glad this puppy is with a family that cares and wants to do all they can to give this puppy the greatest life.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Amy, very well put. I think Kimberly has started a thread about just that. I just couldn't find it. 

I also want to pipe in that this breed has such a reputation for being velcro and playful and funny, that sometimes you can feel out of place having a more serious Hav. I know. I have Jasper, who is healthy and sound just more serious and independent than a lot of Havs. That being said... at almost 3 he has become our shadow, but in a very quiet way. 

Jennifer, I am sure Brody is just fine, and you are a great mom to him. Let me tell you the advantages of having a more independent, cautious Hav ... Brody will sleep through the night (unless something is wrong.) You will be able to leave him for a few hours without him being terrified... and he will likely love all members of your family equally in his own way. He is will be cautious and likely not get into any trouble...like eating things he shouldn't and you will find his gestures of love oh so much more special. 

The things, I wish I could go back and do when Jasper was younger (now knowing he is a quieter more insecure pup) was to socialize him more and and make a game out of everyday things...like the mail (he turns into a tazmanian devil.) and pots and pans making noise. We were with him constantly when he was wee pup(he even came to work with me for the first 2 months) ...but once he was house trained and reliable at about 6-7 months... we let up a bit on the forced socialization and introducing him to things... that and through a year or so is when I think he developed some habits we are now trying to nip not quite in the bud and it is harder. They are habits I think he developed because, we thought he was fine because he was so quiet and not demanding... so we let him do his thing...but somewhere along the line he decided we weren't taking care of things...so he would have to (like scaring away the mail man and anyone who comes to our door) and because being Alpha is not inherently in his nature it has caused a conflct in him. 

You know, I hope when you come back and write Brody is just fine and happy and playing like wild with those kids of yours...but if he still seems a bit blue after the holiday hoopla is over and he has had time to adjust I just thought my experiences with Jasper could help you out. 

Happy New Year to you and your family and especially little Brody Brown.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

I agree with Alexa and Amy.

Despite all the good intentions of those who comment on new puppies coming from less than ideal circumstances, i.e. pet stores, I think it would be a downer, to hear all the negatives AFTER the puppy has been chosen and/or is in the home.

I know of someone who came on the forum full of enthusiasm about her new puppy and left because of the negative comments.

I hope this puppy gets a great clearance from the vet and that the new owner learns a lot from this forum.

Not everyone has the benefit of the forum before they get their Hav.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Amy R. said:


> *I am rooting for Brody to have a great vet check.
> 
> I do agree with Alexa that it's unfair and insensitive to lecture and moralise to our new member, who comes here with an open mind and heart, asking for advice and support, especially when none of us actually knows for a fact this particular puppy's precise history. Puppies are resilient and the odds are, whatever his background, he will be fine and make a wonderful pet.
> 
> *





> Amy R. said:
> 
> 
> > Gosh, I think Brody sounds fine..... I wouldn't worry .


Amy, I think you are right about we don't know this puppy's history, health condition as a fact but we know some of it. I suggested she get the dog to a vet and get some training. You suggest the puppy is fine and not to worry??? Well she thinks there is something wrong so get the dog checked out and get it some training and socialization. There are tons of puppies that come from pet stores and die with parvo or have bad health conditions right of the get go. If she didn't know about the puppy (I do assume anyone who knows about puppy mills doesnt buy a puppy at the pet store) she does now and hopefully she get the care for her puppy that it needs right away. The number of puppies who even die on the way to the pet store is astounding. A bit over 2 years ago, I picked up a havanese from a county shelter. HRI received a phone call and I was in the area. I actually took a camera to take pics cause I would have said no it wasn't a havanese. I thought it was a dachshund mix. It was still microchipped from petland and the owners never registered their name. It had luxating patellas in the third to fourth degree at around 9-10 months old and was dumped. Ofcourse the dog was in pain and not herself. HRI paid for the surgeries, helped her with her recovery and later adopted her out and she grew up to be a gorgeous black and tan havanese. I also fostered a havanese that came from an amish mill myself and he ended up going to a wonderful family with children and was a great dog. I am well aware these guys are resilient but I am also well aware of what happens when dogs are purchased from pet stores and the many stores behind many havanese that come from them.

Unlike what Alexa suggested, I didnt see pics of her dog and said "wow it has a big nose!" She came here asking for Help cause she thinks there is something wrong with her puppy and gave us the dog's history. I think do ignore where the dog came from would not be helping this family out at all.

Here is the little girl I told you about that I knew came from petland...
http://havaneserescue.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=99:patsy&catid=37&Itemid=149


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Ok guys! Calm down.. lol.. We don't need another 'puppy thread', do we?? lol

There are hundreads of active and thousands of non-active members here. I'm willing to bet that MANY of our havanese were purchased from Pet shops, back yard breeders that do no testing, and even straight from the puppy mills! (if not, then none of those places would be in business) And what classifies as a back yard breeder anyways? Someone that does not do ALL the suggested/required testing of parents? Someone that does not have any of their own dogs at a championship level?
Someone that does not raise the dogs with as much human interaction as possible in the home? Obviously there are lots of variables, and I bet some of the breeders on the forum fall into some of those grey areas to. Who knows...

Anyhow, you cannot go back in time.. so, just love and do all that is possible for your puppy/adult hav! 

I totally agree with Amanda and Kathy to, training is key! Does not matter if the dog is from the best or the worst breeder. How much you get out of your dog = the time you put into it!

Ryan


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## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

Amanda...you misunderstood my comment.. there were no pictures of the puppy, I simply tried to illustrate how some of the comments made could be perceived as very insensitive (e.g. if you just had a brandnew human baby and showed him to your neighbor and all you get is a comment on how ugly he is rather than a warm congratulations and gentle suggestions/help for the colicky nights).

All I ever wanted to say is that the most well-meaning advice is going to fall on deaf ears if it's delivered in the wrong way. If a person gets lectured like there is no tomorrow the first time they ask a question, how likely is it that they'll stick around and keep asking???? If a child in school asks a question and instead of an answer gets scolded by the teacher about all the knowledge he doesn't have, but should have by now, do you think he'll raise his hand again?

It's all in the way we communicate with eachother and I just really think that we need to put ourselves into the shoes of the person we are talking to before speaking out, especially when it comes to presenting our own assumptions as facts. 

Like Ryan just mentioned, there are many members on this board that love their dogs no matter what background they are from and I want them to stay and enjoy this forum as much as any owner of award winning, Champion Havanese with a bulletproof history of all sorts of health testing. 

I want to see this forum as a warm, welcoming place for every Havanese owner, informative and supporting without constant judgment. And if someone asks a very specific question, let's first and foremost focus on answering that question and maybe gently add in a side note if we feel compelled to do so rather than the other way around.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Brody Brown said:


> First I'd like to thank everyone who responded.. wow. what a response. there were some really helpful and interesting subjects that came up. As far as the whole purchasing from Petland, He had been there for 4 days before we purchased him, and i am actually glad that i was able to 'save' him. Brody will definately have the best home and loving care that he could possibly get here at my home. A keeper to the core! It seems to be the concensus that he is adjusting and just trying to find his place as well as maybe needing his own space. Most definately he has been scheduled for a vet visit tomorrow. *I will certainly post more pics and am SURE that i will be asking more questions. Thank you all so much for the info. Much appreciated!*


Did anybody read this response? I really don't think that Jennifer was upset at all about anything that was said re: pet store puppies and I'm pretty sure she says she will come back and post again... see what I bolded above. I personally agree with Amanda's posts 100% and think that we should be educating people on pet stores, etc. when they come in and actually ask a question about a puppy who came from such beginnings. If she had come in and said "look at my cute puppy, he is perfect," I doubt anyone would have said anything.

And as for the apparent hectoring of the other person who said she was getting a puppy from a bad breeder, I was someone who posted about that and I would like to defend myself in that I was polite and completely gave my honest opinion. The person who asked the question decided to keep the puppy and not once did anyone berate her for it so I seriously don't think that educating a person and then letting them make their own decisions is hectoring at all. In this case, Jennifer had already made a decision and Amanda chose to educate her on what she might expect based on that decision. How in the world is that rude? Personally, I think that having this discussion and bringing this up after Jennifer had already posted that she is staying and is happy to share Brody's life with us would drive her away much much faster than what had already been posted and Jennifer, I just wanted to add, if you're reading, that I don't think this has anything to do with you personally - people have strong opinions when it comes to certain things here, as I'm sure you'll find to be true anywhere in the world.

Also, just wanted to add that this is not at all a personal attack on anyone who has posted that they think Amanda was wrong in what she said. I am just stating my opinion in much the same way that I think you're stating yours as I'm sure none of you would intentionally attack Amanda, who is a sweet and caring individual much like all of us on this forum.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

*Guys, PLEASE, I don't think anyone was wrong per se in anything they said in this thread or a prior thread. If you re-read my post you will see I did not use the word RUDE. Lina, you are always polite. And the people with the highest standards and most knowledge here are what gives this Forum its integrity and backbone.

 I really thought twice before posting on this topic because I feared a lot of defensive posts in response. However, in the thread I am thinking of, my impression was that some people were debating back and forth as if the questioner didn't even exist. It made me really uncomfortable. And I've a right to point that out. I'm one of the older Forum members, though also possibly one of the coolest, so you should regard me like your mom, i.e. someone with tons of life experience, and reflect on what I point out. LOL

Jennifer didn't leave, good for her, but I have seen others slink away over the couple of years I've been a member, never to be heard from again.  ALL that I am asking is that we be more sensitive to the new person coming here for support and advice. PERIOD. And, sorry, but I just don't always see that, and of course, it's not intentional, it is inadvertant. ALL I am asking is that we try to look at the entire situation from the perspective of the newbie who knows little or nothing about Havs. Ok, let's not beat a dead horse or have a drama. Jeez. There is no real disagreement here, rather it's just a matter of nuance and emphasis. !!! And thanks so much to Amanda for starting that wonderful new thread. *

O*K now I've got to go bake a fancy dessert (buche de noel) for a New Year's party. HAPPY NEW YEAR!*


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

I agree Amy! I think it is awesome that we have so many educated members here on the forum that have knowledge on a plethora of subjects.....I have learned so much of which I am thankful! Being a new member of any forum can sometimes be overwhelming depending on the type of responses you get to your questions. I am a member of another group (not dog related) and when I first joined, I had a difficult time breaking into the the "inner circle"....seems I asked a question that raised suspicions of my motives for being on there in the first place.....i was totally clueless of what the problem was! I honestly wanted to get an answer! I almost quit but decided to stay and I am so glad I did! Remember a little bit of sugar always helps the medicine go down!


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## Brody Brown (Dec 27, 2008)

Hi all! Okay so the pet visit went great... Brody is 3 lbs, and doctor says is in really good shape.. He has actually been doing really well... As far as him having puppy blues, I think that most people here were right on the money when it came to him wanting some space. Brody does follow us around the house, will lick our faces and wag his little tail when we are playing or cuddling with him. At the same time, I think we may have also just have gotten a little one with a mild and mellow temperment.(that may change, I HAVE only had him a week!) It might just be who he is... He does actually like being up on the bed with us, as we catch him at the side of the bed, looking for a boost up. And when he is up, he has his spot where he lays and seems very content with it. He is very curious and and is eating well. Very good with the kids so far, (although when he's had his share with them, he will walk away for his own space) We love Brody. Didnt think you could get so attached to this little ball of fluff so quickly.. 
And one quick comment.. As far as the replies are concerned, I really dont take anything towards me buying him from Petland as a direct insult. It was a choice I made, didnt know the whole pupply mill fiasco, and am really happy with the new family member I chose! I'll just take it with a grain of salt... On a lighter note, I am extremely pleased with all the very helpful information and want to say thanks to those who seem to really express a true concern for Brody and his well being!! The forum is great!..........

So now, how DO you clean up the little eye tearing/discharge from his little face?!:focus:


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Good morning! Happy New Year!

I'm so glad to hear he got a clean bill of health from his vet checkup!!!

For the tearing, every morning I clean Tucker's inner eyes very gently with a kleenex, being careful not to touch his eye ball. Then I gently comb those face hairs with a tiny flea comb. You'll find that many/most Havs have tearing/staining issues, but if you can figure out what works for you and keep on it, you can keep pretty good control. If you do a "search" for tear staining here you'll find lots of threads about it.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Brody Brown said:


> So now, how DO you clean up the little eye tearing/discharge from his little face?!:focus:


Is the area under the eyes always wet? If so, it is possible that he may have a blocked tear duct or two. That can be resolved later when he is a bit older (with the aid of your vet or he may grow out of the blockage). In the meantime, you just want to keep it dry. The wetness causes staining.

Flea combs are great for helping to comb through the hair under the eyes.

To wash it, you can use a human eye wash (Bauch & Lomb is a good brand), or a "no tears" shampoo, or a dog eye wash product like Angel Tears. If you keep some washclothes on hand, you can rub the area on occasion to keep it dry. If it is just slightly damp, you can _carefully_ place a little cornstarch on it and comb it through with a flea comb. If it is totally wet, don't bother with cornstarch. Just wipe it dry as often as possible.

Tip: Talk baby talk and give him some extra head rubbing when you work on this area and he'll have no problem with you doing it often.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Good news!*

Well, here I am on January one, thinking of you and your new "baby." So to let you know where we are at this moment, I am typing on the computer...Daisy is on her throne pillow sleeping on the couch, and Riki is on his pillow on the other couch. Now if I got up or moved, they would come with me...but they are very content with their own space.

No night is another story! I woke up with a dog on each side and my cat licking my ear to get up to feed him. We went outside on our morning walk and Riki began crying...our neighbors were outide with their lab that he knows and he was pulling me to get to them...although he stops at the edge of the street because he knows he isn't allowed to go in the street without my ok. (if my husband had been in the bed, they would have been at our feet...they don't like to be crowded,LOL)

He was more happy to see the people than the dog...tail wagging and just beside himself with excitement. Daisy, on the other hand is more mellow, giving little kisses and a sweeter greeting.

So many folks want lap havanese...and from my experience, most aren't. They like to be near you but not on you...they are dogs after all. They find perches in the house up high or personal thrones! Most dog books say to leave an open crate for the dog to go into for their own space, like a den. Mine have found their own caves in the open table near the couch which they immediately retreat to when they see a pin brush or a comb!

Enjoy this lovely journey. I didn't know anything about responsible breeding at the time I got my dogs and was just fortunate. After reading and learning over these years, you get quite an education. I am volunteering for havanese rescue to do my part as I try very hard to focus on what I am for, not against.

You will find us very passionate for our breed and you will find out why as you listen to our stories and what many of us have been through with our dogs.

What I will tell you is most folks get a dog....we get a lifestyle.

We are glad you are here.

Linda


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Linda, I like that: "most folks get a dog...we get a lifestyle." 

That nails it!


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*It's true, ins't it!*

The other day, my dogs were in the "dog house" because one of them peed near the tree and the other marked that pee. I made them stay downstairs for an hour.

So I am sitting at the computer totally missing them! So who had it worse?

When I am stressed or driving in traffic, I think of petting them and I am soothed.

Every time I come home, I am welcomed with adoring love...what is better than that. They are small enough to go just about everywhere I do, except the beach. I have this forum of other folks who love them as much as I do so I don't have to bug my friends and relatives who don't get it. And I do agililty, have the Havanese Club of Southern California, my rescue friends and volunteer work, and even get to meet up with other forum buddies in our area.

Riki says hello!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Riki is a handsome boy!


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

I'm glad that Brody had a good check-up, Jennifer. It sounds like he has found the perfect home, a great fit, and you have all bonded beautifully. It does sound like he's easy-going; in my limited experience (with 1 and 1/2 Havs, LOL) , their little personalities seem pretty imprinted from birth. Of course, other environmental factors and training, etc. also intervene.. . . 

And how fortunate you found this forum when he is little and are getting great advice re all the little puppy issues. We have several breeders on the Forum who are so generous with their expertise. I didn't find the Forum for several months after I got Biscuit, and was really flying by the seat of my pants. Looking forward to more pix of Brody when you have a chance. We love puppy pix!!


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Sheri, look a little like someone you know?*

Yes some of us are rather partial to silver and whites!


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## danak (Jun 17, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. You sound like you'll be a very healthy, happy furbaby mom and forum member. I've learned so much here. All I knew when I arrived was that I had one rescue from a mill, now I have added a georgeous little white girl from a backyard breeder.

In this whole thread that resulted from your arrival I learned so much about habits of non mill dogs that are so much like the habits my two. Habits that I thought were only dysfunctional habits of rescues. Wow we're so much healthier than I thought. If you can make sense of that it really means there is so much here to learn.

The people here are great and from love of the breed will answer all questions. 
Happy New Year , I'll be looking for you.
Dana


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## Olive25 (Dec 22, 2008)

Brody Brown said:


> Hi all! Okay so the pet visit went great... Brody is 3 lbs, and doctor says is in really good shape.. He has actually been doing really well... As far as him having puppy blues, I think that most people here were right on the money when it came to him wanting some space. Brody does follow us around the house, will lick our faces and wag his little tail when we are playing or cuddling with him. At the same time, I think we may have also just have gotten a little one with a mild and mellow temperment.(that may change, I HAVE only had him a week!) It might just be who he is... He does actually like being up on the bed with us, as we catch him at the side of the bed, looking for a boost up. And when he is up, he has his spot where he lays and seems very content with it. He is very curious and and is eating well. Very good with the kids so far, (although when he's had his share with them, he will walk away for his own space) We love Brody. Didnt think you could get so attached to this little ball of fluff so quickly..
> And one quick comment.. As far as the replies are concerned, I really dont take anything towards me buying him from Petland as a direct insult. It was a choice I made, didnt know the whole pupply mill fiasco, and am really happy with the new family member I chose! I'll just take it with a grain of salt... On a lighter note, I am extremely pleased with all the very helpful information and want to say thanks to those who seem to really express a true concern for Brody and his well being!! The forum is great!..........
> 
> So now, how DO you clean up the little eye tearing/discharge from his little face?!:focus:


Hi there! I'm a new Havi mom too. Lots of good advice here. I'm glad you took Brody to the vet just to be checked out. He's adorable and looks kinda like Olive! Olive will be 11 weeks old on Friday. Her birthday was Oct 19. We picked her up from the breeder at 8 weeks. Looking back on that I think I might have/should have had her stay with her mama a little longer. She was fine but she woke us up several times a night that first week. We have her crate right by our bed and now she only wakes us once during the night. Soon she will be moved out of the bedroom! Just like a little baby moving to the crib from the bassinet. 

Our breeder recommended "angel eyes" for the tears and "oxyfresh" to put in her water for her teeth. it controls tartar. Has anyone used this before?


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Brody and Olive*

They are sort of similar! What do you call this coloring combination?


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## Brody Brown (Dec 27, 2008)

LOL.. HOw cute.. Brody and Olive do look alike.. And born within 2 days of eachother. I have uploaded 3 pics, and will get to adding some more soon!


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## Olive25 (Dec 22, 2008)

Rikidaisy said:


> They are sort of similar! What do you call this coloring combination?


Black & tan.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

> Our breeder recommended "angel eyes" for the tears and "oxyfresh" to put in her water for her teeth. it controls tartar. Has anyone used this before?[/COLOR]


I would not use Angel Eyes for an extended period of time, and actually would try to avoid using it until you absolutely have to because it is an antibiotic and continued use of an antibiotic for something other than a bacterial infection is not a good idea - your pup might become immune to that antibiotic. I would instead try some of the "natural" cures first, like a little bit of fresh parsley sprinkled into her food or some yogurt (with active cultures) mixed into the food. These can help control tear stains naturally and should be tried first, I think.

Oxyfresh is very good... I use it with Kubrick in his water and it really does hep with his bad breath!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Also, while Angels Eyes works REALLY well... besides its having an antibiotic in it, I read on the Forum here (old thread) that if you use it in a puppy it can turn their adult teeth off-colored.


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## Olive25 (Dec 22, 2008)

Lina said:


> I would not use Angel Eyes for an extended period of time, and actually would try to avoid using it until you absolutely have to because it is an antibiotic and continued use of an antibiotic for something other than a bacterial infection is not a good idea - your pup might become immune to that antibiotic. I would instead try some of the "natural" cures first, like a little bit of fresh parsley sprinkled into her food or some yogurt (with active cultures) mixed into the food. These can help control tear stains naturally and should be tried first, I think.
> 
> Oxyfresh is very good... I use it with Kubrick in his water and it really does hep with his bad breath!





Sheri said:


> Also, while Angels Eyes works REALLY well... besides its having an antibiotic in it, I read on the Forum here (old thread) that if you use it in a puppy it can turn their adult teeth off-colored.



I didn't realize angel eyes was an antibiotic. I haven't really looked into it. Olive is black so the tears really aren't an issue. She mentioned it before we chose her and were also considering the ivory pup. I would use caution before using it too.

When should the oxyfresh be started? Does it matter...should I wait until her adult teeth come in?


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Tina, no, you can start using the Oxyfresh now. In fact, it would be a good idea to start when her puppy teeth come out because they can get really bad breath during that time.


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