# Chocolate Havanese. A scam?



## WarmWind

Does anyone here know of or has had an experience with the breeder from Chocolate Havanese? Is she legit or did I do something wrong??? 

I was about to place a deposit for a puppy but have not heard back from her at all. She asked me if there was a certain bank near me where I could place deposit for puppy. I responded to tell her yes, in same email I also told her I might just go pick up puppy (instead of having him shipped) so that he wouldn't have to fly alone. After that email she didn't reply, I haven't heard from her. I tried calling but it went straight to voicemail so I left a message but nada. She had stopped emailing me for a couple days before because she had gone to ER, so maybe she had complications or did she stop emailing me because I said I would go pick up puppy and she doesn't really have it? I don't know what to think. I also asked her if puppy could stay with mama until he was 9-10 weeks because everyone is recommending they stay with mom for that amount of time to prevent behavioral/learning issues. 

Now my son will be sad, I had showed him the photos of puppy and he fell in love. He even downloaded the picture and chose a name for him. I still haven't told him incase she is in hospital or something. If anyone has any info on this breeder please let me know.


----------



## krandall

I don't know anything about that breeder. Was it this site?: http://www.chocolatehavanesepups.com

If so, stay far, FAR away. These are puppy mill brokers, and you can put in any major city and find the same web site.

There are WAY too many "red flags" here for you to go forward. Never EVER buy a puppy from an internet site. That's different than finding a breeder's kennel web site and contacting them through that. Reputable breeders will spend time interviewing you. They won't sell very young puppies and they will be glad to welcome you into their homes to meet not only the puppies, but the parents as well. (At least the mother... Many breeders will use studs owned by someone else)

Your son may be disappointed, but he hasn't fallen in love with a puppy, he has fallen in love with the IDEA of a puppy. Far better that you should go back to the drawing board now, and find yourself a reputable breeder of quality puppies (see our "sticky" at the top of the forum) and end up with a wonderful friend for the next 15 or more years. A puppy mill puppy (or even one from a back yard breeder) can be years of heartache, in temperament, health or both.


----------



## MarinaGirl

Please read this sticky right away. *Things to Look for in a Reputable Breeder*

The fact that the breeder went dark after you asked about picking up the puppy in person is a HUGE RED FLAG. You should never agree to meet a breeder off site or have your puppy shipped by airplane. TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS ON THIS! A breeder that is not reputable discourages or won't allow you to come to their home for visits.

And breeders that breed for a specific color, especially chocolate, are often not reputable. Good breeders do not breed for rare colors or miniature sizes.

I know it's tough to have this puppy fall through but in the end it will be worth it. I walked away from 2 BYBs, had to fight to get my deposits back, and then I found Emmie's breeder. I visited her twice; once at 7 weeks and again at 10.5 weeks when I picked up my puppy in person. I'm glad I went with my gut and didn't settle for a lesser bred Havanese; it took more time but in the long run I have a healthy dog that has been fairly easy to potty train, socialize, and does well with other people, kids, and dogs. She's the best companion for me and my family.


----------



## Hsusa

That sounded like worse than a puppy mill, as bad as that is. It sounded like a scam. I think you got lucky.


----------



## midwifeheather

I know of this breeder local to me who prides herself on "rare chocolate havanese"
HavaHug Havanese Puppies - HavaHug Havanese Puppies of Michigan
I have no doubt she cares for the puppies/dogs but I have asked her who the dam was for her last litter and she didn't answer me. I know she has 3 chocolate bitches, I think she kept one from a litter she bred. She only has 1 sire, he's chocolate.


----------



## WarmWind

I follow Havahug on Instagram. 2 of her females recently had puppies according to her site. She seems like a good breeder to me and takes great care of her pups. Dogs look very healthy, well taken care of, happy, house is clean, etc. She also has videos on YT. Last year KitKat (one of the chocolate females) had 2 precious white chocolates. She also has a non chocolate female.


----------



## KarMar

WarmWind said:


> I follow Havahug on Instagram. 2 of her females recently had puppies according to her site. She seems like a good breeder to me and takes great care of her pups. Dogs look very healthy, well taken care of, happy, house is clean, etc. She also has videos on YT. Last year KitKat (one of the chocolate females) had 2 precious white chocolates. She also has a non chocolate female.


I think Heather was implying that, though she doesn't doubt they adore their dogs, they may not be your best bet, and looking at their website, I have to agree. They had 2 litters within 10 days of each other, which is nothing but trouble to me. She seems to also breed almost purely for the chocolate color, which is another red flag for me. Color is the absolute last thing a breeder should be selecting for. "White chocolate" is a gimmicky term she made up for a white pup with poor pigmentation, from what I'm gathering from her site.

If a clean home and happy and healthy looking dogs were all it took to be a "reputable breeder", we would be in deep trouble. As others have said, please please read the sticky on finding a reputable breeder.


----------



## Karen Collins

WarmWind said:


> I follow Havahug on Instagram. 2 of her females recently had puppies according to her site. She seems like a good breeder to me and takes great care of her pups. Dogs look very healthy, well taken care of, happy, house is clean, etc. She also has videos on YT. Last year KitKat (one of the chocolate females) had 2 precious white chocolates. She also has a non chocolate female.


It concerns me that she doesn't appear to do any health testing on her breeding parents. Also, it is very suspect that she advertises that she will sell a pup with breeding rights for additional money. Even though she says she will do it at her discretion, the very fact that she is advertising that invites puppy mills and backyard breeders. Which makes me suspicious that that is her intent. Also, she is charging the same prices for her puppies that you would pay for a much better bred and guaranteed dog. She also ships her puppies which is a cruel and inhumane thing to do to young pup. Down in cargo on a plane the temps will go from 20 degrees to 80 degrees on the same flight. There is no way to protect the puppy from those temp extremes. Enough blankets to keep him warm in 20 degrees will bake him in 80 degrees.

She just seems too commercial for my liking. Faust Haus Havanese in NC is a much better choice if you are looking specifically for a chocolate.


----------



## Lisa T.

Karen Collins said:


> It concerns me that she doesn't appear to do any health testing on her breeding parents. Also, it is very suspect that she advertises that she will sell a pup with breeding rights for additional money. Even though she says she will do it at her discretion, the very fact that she is advertising that invites puppy mills and backyard breeders. Also, she is charging the same prices for her puppies that you would pay for a much better bred and guaranteed dog. She just seems too commercial for my liking. Faust Haus Havanese in NC is a much better choice if you are looking specifically for a chocolate.


I'm having trouble find red sables. Eventually we would like to get another Havsnese when Rudy is closer to 2 years old. 
They are hard to find.


----------



## Eveningpiper

Lisa T. said:


> I'm having trouble find red sables. Eventually we would like to get another Havsnese when Rudy is closer to 2 years old.
> They are hard to find.


A few of us on the forum have Rockhurst pups and Beth has beautiful clear red and red sable dogs.


----------



## Lisa T.

Eveningpiper said:


> A few of us on the forum have Rockhurst pups and Beth has beautiful clear red and red sable dogs.


Where is she located? We live in Virginia.


----------



## Lisa T.

We're looking to stay in Virginia, North Carolina, and South Catolina area.


----------



## Eveningpiper

Lisa T. said:


> We're looking to stay in Virginia, North Carolina, and South Catolina area.


She is in Ottawa, Canada but some on the forum have flown up to get their pups from her and made a little holiday out of it.


----------



## krandall

KarMar said:


> I think Heather was implying that, though she doesn't doubt they adore their dogs, they may not be your best bet, and looking at their website, I have to agree. They had 2 litters within 10 days of each other, which is nothing but trouble to me. She seems to also breed almost purely for the chocolate color, which is another red flag for me. Color is the absolute last thing a breeder should be selecting for. "White chocolate" is a gimmicky term she made up for a white pup with poor pigmentation, from what I'm gathering from her site.
> 
> If a clean home and happy and healthy looking dogs were all it took to be a "reputable breeder", we would be in deep trouble. As others have said, please please read the sticky on finding a reputable breeder.


I agree with most of what you have written here, except that it is very common for females who live together to start cycling together So there are certainly times that an excellent breeder could have two litters very close together. I certainly wouldn't hold that against a breeder if that were the only "issue"... Which doesn't seem to be the case with this breeder.


----------



## krandall

Lisa T. said:


> Where is she located? We live in Virginia.


Rockhurst is in Canada. While she does produce some very nice puppies, keep in mind that the laws have changed, and a puppy can no longer be brought into the U.S. without a rabies vaccination... which means you either have to vaccinate much too early, or wait an awfully long time to get a puppy from her if you are in the U.S. It's a shame, and not her fault,but that's the way it is.

Please don't chooses a puppy just based on color. That is the LEAST important thing when choosing a dog.


----------



## KarMar

krandall said:


> I agree with most of what you have written here, except that it is very common for females who live together to start cycling together So there are certainly times that an excellent breeder could have two litters very close together. I certainly wouldn't hold that against a breeder if that were the only "issue"... Which doesn't seem to be the case with this breeder.


And I did mean that that wasn't necessarily an issue in and of itself, but the fact that she doesn't seem to be breeding with the best intentions makes me doubt that she put much thought or planning into the litters. It seems she only uses the one stud dog and one of her two or three (can't really tell from the website, also not a wonderful sign) bitches no matter what.

Mario's breeder, who is nothing short of wonderful, had a litter that went home about a week after Mario was born and another that was born a month after he came home (new puppy's breeder's foundation bitch came from that litter, actually). These pairings were all planned around a year in advance, the girls in the house just happened to go into heat in pretty rapid succession that year


----------



## Heather's

Lisa T. said:


> Where is she located? We live in Virginia.


Our Scout is from Rockhurst. His mother is red and the sire apricot sable. Beth does have beautiful reds and other colors too. We flew to Canada to pick him up. I didn't know there were new restrictions.


----------



## midwifeheather

So when i first started looking into havanese i found havahug and was thrilles since they are literally 15min away from me! Her two females were pregnant for the first time, at the same time.
Admittedly i wanted a chocolate. I contacted them and she told me she had 3 reserves on the chocolate litter but i could reserve a spot on the other female i declined. Of her first chocolate litter she kept a chocolate parti female.
When she bred them again i admit i was on the wait list, but i was able to get a refund when i adopted my smores. I found smores and was researching on this site about reputable breeders and was concerned that at havahug i would be paying $2k for a puppy from parents that didnt appear to be health tested. That is when havahug had her second litters with the two "rare white chocolate"puppies.
And now it appears she has bred the same bitches a 3rd time? She just had another chocolate litter and those puppies i asked who the dam was. I was genuinely curious. I love her Facebook page and photos and her puppies are stunning.


----------



## krandall

Heather Glen said:


> Our Scout is from Rockhurst. His mother is red and the sire apricot sable. Beth does have beautiful reds and other colors too. We flew to Canada to pick him up. I didn't know there were new restrictions.


They were enacted within the last couple of years, so it's possible that you got Scout just before they went into effect.


----------

