# Psychogenic Polydipsia



## expatmama (Apr 29, 2020)

Hi,
I posted previously about my 4.5 month old puppy drink a lot of water, I took her back to the vet last week and we ran all sorts of tests to exclude any medical problem, everything came back looking normal with no red flags, so it seems for now she just drinks a lot for no reason, I googled and its called psychogenic polydipsia, not sure how I should handle this, its very frustrating for her and myself and it really isn't helping with the house breaking  She eats kibble mainly but I have been slowly transitioning her dinner to cooked food so she is just getting a little bit of that for now, her play pen is in an air-conditioned room, I am not sure what else to do.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

That is a relief to know she’s healthy. I think of her now and then because her drinking prompted me to try and keep track of how much water my own Havanese drinks. It turns out we spill a lot more than I realized and we have water in different parts of the house so it’s not easy to keep track of! 

Did the vet have any suggestions on how to manage it? Maybe it would help for you to describe your routine and the puppy’s set up.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> That is a relief to know she's healthy. I think of her now and then because her drinking prompted me to try and keep track of how much water my own Havanese drinks. It turns out we spill a lot more than I realized and we have water in different parts of the house so it's not easy to keep track of!
> 
> Did the vet have any suggestions on how to manage it? Maybe it would help for you to describe your routine and the puppy's set up.


We only keep one water bowl in the house, always at the same location, so it is easy to know how much water Ricky drinks. It is about one to two cups per day. I don't know how much he should be drinking and I imagine it varies depending on the dog's physiology, what food they are eating, and how active they are. Ricky gets a lot of water in the food he eats which we don't count with his water bowl. The odd thing is, he likes his water icy cold. straight out the refrigerator. He seems to be well hydrated and potties about once every 4 hours (except of course at night where he goes about 10/11 hours without needing to potty). He knows from habit that when we take him for his evening walkies about 7pm, this is last time out for the day and he will potty maybe three times on the walkies to make sure his bladder is completely empty. It has been years since he has awakened us at night to go potty

Ricky's Popi


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

expatmama said:


> Hi,
> I posted previously about my 4.5 month old puppy drink a lot of water, I took her back to the vet last week and we ran all sorts of tests to exclude any medical problem, everything came back looking normal with no red flags, so it seems for now she just drinks a lot for no reason, I googled and its called psychogenic polydipsia, not sure how I should handle this, its very frustrating for her and myself and it really isn't helping with the house breaking  She eats kibble mainly but I have been slowly transitioning her dinner to cooked food so she is just getting a little bit of that for now, her play pen is in an air-conditioned room, I am not sure what else to do.


Just wondering if the test included blood tests to make sure the liver and kidneys are functioning properly. Also, there are some recent posts talking about the importance of adding water to your kibble. Wondering if you hydrate the kibble if she will drink less vs eating dry food and then slugging down a ton of water at once which is going to make potty training hard. Also wondering if the kibble you are feeding contains any salt or other ingredients that can cause more thirst. Here is an article talking about that.

https://dogcare.dailypuppy.com/can-switching-dog-food-cause-excessive-water-drinking-3223.html


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

did you get this by googling symptoms or did your vet mention it as a possibilty. Only your vet should be the source for diagnosing this. We are not qualified and I recommend discussing this with him only.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Since you have been to the vet twice, and a medical issue has been eliminated, I would post about the details of your potty training set-up and anything your vet suggested to manage potty training. That way people can offer specific suggestions to help you get through potty training. I remember you said that you had met with a trainer but were unable to continue because you’re living internationally in a city that’s locked down. If you felt the trainer was helpful, perhaps they would be able to help remotely. It might be harder internationally, but I imagine there might be resources to help you find a trainer or behaviorist in your area if you are unsure.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

You can change Vets and different a different opinion.

I'm wondering about the Kibble, which isn't good food. There are a lots of good food out and its cheap to feed these little dogs even very expensive food.

I use Honest Kitchen which is FDA approved as human food. I use HK dehydrated food which requires hydrating it with water.. It's thick and soupy. I don't know how much water Patti drinks because we there have three water bowels through out the house, but I've never noticed she drinks lots of water. She sleeps our bedroom and usually goes all night not drinking any water.

If it were me I'd get rid of Kibble. If that doesn't change things find another vet and get a different opinion.


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## expatmama (Apr 29, 2020)

Yes blood tests were carried out, diabetes, kidney disease, liver disease and Addisons have been ruled out, also did daily urine analysis and took it to the vet for testing everyday, all good.


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## expatmama (Apr 29, 2020)

I just mentioned in my original post that I went to the vet.


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## expatmama (Apr 29, 2020)

so Coco is either in the play pen, or being played/trained or tied next to us if we are unable to follow her around and are sitting together as a family. She is not left to roam around freely for now at all. I put her in the play pen for 1 hour, give her 50 ml water (vet has suggested giving her water throughout the day at intervals as opposed to leaving it lying around) wait 5 mins, take her out for a pee and then she is with me or another family member for 2 hours, then we put her back in and so on and so forth all day, in between there are two long walks one in the morning and one in the early evening, water is given to her every two hours and I am trying to get her to hold her pee for two hours, sometimes she will hold slightly longer and sometimes she has accidents at much less time. We have recently started giving her food twice a day as she has not been very interested in the middle day meal. Morning is kibble which I don't wet but will try now, evening I am transitioning to cooked food. Also would like to add that I have seen three different vets and the last one is the only one that ran tests and took it seriously the rest just told me its puppy behaviour.


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## expatmama (Apr 29, 2020)

*Routine*

So Coco is either in the play pen, or being played/trained or tied next to us if we are unable to follow her around and are sitting together as a family. She is not left to roam around freely for now at all. I put her in the play pen for 1 hour, give her 50 ml water (vet has suggested giving her water throughout the day at intervals as opposed to leaving it lying around) wait 5 mins, take her out for a pee and then she is with me or another family member for 2 hours, then we put her back in and so on and so forth all day, in between there are two long walks one in the morning and one in the early evening, water is given to her every two hours and I am trying to get her to hold her pee for two hours, sometimes she will hold slightly longer and sometimes she has accidents at much less time. We have recently started giving her food twice a day as she has not been very interested in the middle day meal. Morning is kibble which I don't wet but will try now, evening I am transitioning to cooked food. Also would like to add that I have seen three different vets and the last one is the only one that ran tests and took it seriously the rest just told me its puppy behaviour.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I think you are doing exactly the right things, and that it’s just going to take her a little bit longer because she is drinking more, and her bladder isn’t fully developed yet. I think this is true of many Havanese puppies, it was definitely true of mine, but I think sometimes people just don’t notice it as much when their puppies aren’t drinking a lot. For me it did stretch to 4 hours by about 6 months, but I still had to take him out before that if there was any kind of change in routine or if we went on the carpet in a different room. 

I would try to identify when she goes the longest and see if there is a pattern as to what room she is in, or if she’s in her playpen, etc. With my puppy he held it longer in our bedroom and family room because he spent the most time there. If there are specific areas where she tends to have accidents more often, try to spend more time in those areas and back up to take her out every hour when you’re in that room. If the accidents are in her playpen, make it smaller. 

I can imagine it’s really frustrating, but do keep in mind that if you’re taking her more often because her bladder just hasn’t matured, in the long run she is going to be much, much more reliable, so it WILL pay off. Every time you take her potty, she is learning, so if you’re taking her out more, it’s just more opportunities for her to really get it down. Preventing accidents as much as possible, even if it means taking her out more often, is important because she’s learning each time she has an accident, too. 


Is she able to hold it during the night? 

I would plan that as the time she can hold it stretches, you still may need to take her out every 4 hours for quite a while. Once she is closer to a year old, maybe even a bit older, her body will be more mature and you should I have a better idea of how much you can push the time. As an adult mine can go 6-8 hours on average. Under different circumstances it’s longer or shorter, though. I could never leave him alone for more then 3-4 hours because he has to go more often when he’s stressed, and he gets stressed when he’s home alone. However, he regularly holds it for 10 hours overnight, which is think is a pretty long time. 

I don’t think it will be this hard for a lot longer. If you keep doing what you are doing, with small adjustments to prevent accidents, I really think you will start seeing her hit some milestones that make it easier to get through the long haul with potty training. At 6 months mine wasn’t even close to completely potty trained, but it was still much easier than it was at 4 months. 9 months was easier than 6, etc. I would say my Havanese was completely trained around 14 months. 

I hope something there helps!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

also I think it’s great that you picked up on her cue about the daytime meal, it sounds like she’s ready for that and it will help. Make sure to back up and take her potty a bit more often while you go through the process of transitioning food 

I would also try to stick with the last vet if you can for future visits.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Mikki said:


> I use Honest Kitchen which is FDA approved as human food. I use HK dehydrated food which requires hydrating it with water.. It's thick and soupy.


Yes, we use Honest Kitchen too, but it is the base mix and then we add our own fresh protein to that (chicken or lean beef or fish). Ricky's Vet doesn't want us to use raw meat because of the danger of salmonella poisoning so we boil the meat first which increases its water content. We use the amount of water to hydrate as called for in the directions on the box. It is thick but I wouldn't call it soupy. I think it is because we use fresh protein.

In my opinion, dogs will drink a lot more water if they are on a kibble diet.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> At 6 months mine wasn't even close to completely potty trained, but it was still much easier than it was at 4 months. 9 months was easier than 6, etc. I would say my Havanese was completely trained around 14 months.


Yes, Ricky was around 15 months before is was 100% reliable. It took so long because we had no idea what we were doing in the beginning and made every mistake in the book. Havanese Forum helped us get through that difficult period with tips and tricks.

Ricky's Popi


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*water*



Ricky Ricardo said:


> We only keep one water bowl in the house, always at the same location, so it is easy to know how much water Ricky drinks. It is about one to two cups per day. I don't know how much he should be drinking and I imagine it varies depending on the dog's physiology, what food they are eating, and how active they are. Ricky gets a lot of water in the food he eats which we don't count with his water bowl. The odd thing is, he likes his water icy cold. straight out the refrigerator. He seems to be well hydrated and potties about once every 4 hours (except of course at night where he goes about 10/11 hours without needing to potty). He knows from habit that when we take him for his evening walkies about 7pm, this is last time out for the day and he will potty maybe three times on the walkies to make sure his bladder is completely empty. It has been years since he has awakened us at night to go potty
> 
> Ricky's Popi


It's funny because, outside of the water I put in his food, I doubt that Perry drinks 1-2 cups a week let alone a day. Since I hydrate his food really well (haven't measured it but I'd say at least 1/2 cup, possibly more twice a day in his food) and he does pee throughout the day (at least 3-4 times per day) I am not worried about his hydration level, but it is interesting how different they all are.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

So it was you that thought it might be psychogenic polydipsia. ? Just remember , if you switch to home cooked meals., do it with an knowledgeable nutritionist and not on your own. 
'


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I will say, mine if funny about water. Just today his water bowl was across the room but he “asked” for water that was in a glass on the end table. I realized his water bowl had something in it. He does NOT like his water contaminated, lol. Then tonight he REALLY wanted my glass of ice water. He’s pretty spoiled so I got him his own ice water. He will drink a whole glass of water if it has ice, he loves it. Its also pretty funny because we sometimes give him water out of these sort of wide mouth glasses when his water bowl is in the dishwasher, like I did tonight. So sometimes he’ll “request” water out of a glass. He’ll also “request” that someone hold it for him, lol.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Melissa Brill said:


> I am not worried about his hydration level, but it is interesting how different they all are.


Good to see you posting Melissa. A long time ago, I asked Ricky's Vet how much water is needed. He said that is a difficult question to answer because there isn't a standard, all dogs are different. He asked me some questions about Ricky's habits, he asked if there was anything about Ricky that caused me to ask that question, and he gave Ricky a physical exam. Upon conclusion, he said Ricky appeared to be well hydrated but if I was in anyway concerned, he could order some tests that would involve some expense. His recommendation was, that was not necessary at this time and I shouldn't be concerned. That was years ago and it has never been a problem.

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Yes, we use Honest Kitchen too, but it is the base mix and then we add our own fresh protein to that (chicken or lean beef or fish). Ricky's Vet doesn't want us to use raw meat because of the danger of salmonella poisoning so we boil the meat first which increases its water content. We use the amount of water to hydrate as called for in the directions on the box. It is thick but I wouldn't call it soupy. I think it is because we use fresh protein.
> 
> In my opinion, dogs will drink a lot more water if they are on a kibble diet.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


To top off the HK dehydrated food I add a few pieces fresh boiled chicken along with a few crunchy bits of HK Whole Food Clusters. I, also, add a little HK broth to the dehydrated food before adding water. But ... After boiling the chicken I use up the chicken broth water instead of plain water until it's gone.

When we have fish or beef for dinner I save a few little bites for Patti. She loves licking and cleaning empty plates.

I alternate the chicken and beef dehydrated food along with different HK broths and Whole Food Clusters ... beef, chicken, turkey. Haven't tried Lamb because personally I HATE Lamb.:laugh2: I suppose Patti would like it.

I give her 18th C HK dehydrated food - two times a day. After adding water and bites of chicken and food clusters about 1/4C per meal. She's a good weight at 15lbs.

We don't routinely give Patti treats during the day. She usually gets a few tiny training bites during the day. We give those to her when we call her to come in, usually at night or when she's stolen something she's not suppose to have like a pen, shoe, sock.

Patti's ia good at training Humans to give her a treat for returning stolen things.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

expatmama said:


> I just mentioned in my original post that I went to the vet.


I understand you've taken your baby to a Vet and had numerous tests done. If you are satisfied you dog doesn't have a problem, then go no further. If the water is excessive and not natural then if it we me I would consult with another Vet, preferably seeking out a Veterinary School program.

You already have done a lot of tests and those won't need to be repeated. The second Vet will have that information and can work on what else might be going on

Similary it's like seeking different physicians opinions. Each one learns from the last one what WASN'T the problem.

Eventually, the last doctor figures it out the diagnosis ... because he had information from all the doctors on what WAS NOT the problem.

The last doctor then becomes THE BRILLIANT DOCTOR, because they didn't have to do all the work on what eliminating what IT WASN'T.

Get It .. that how it works in medicine. :nerd:


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Mikki said:


> After boiling the chicken I use up the chicken broth water instead of plain water until it's gone.


Yep. that's what Momi does too. The aroma of the broth water drives Ricky NUTS!



> I give her 18th C HK dehydrated food - two times a day. After adding water and bites of chicken and food clusters about 1/4C per meal. She's a good weight at 15lbs.
> 
> We don't routinely give Patti treats during the day. She usually gets a few tiny training bites during the day.


Finally figured out "18th C" = 1/8 cup. LOL. Ricky's HK base mix is "grain free." We give him 1/3 cup twice a day but that includes about a tablespoon of grain based kibble per his Vet's recommendation and the additional boiled protein. He also gets 1/4 cup of fresh fruits and vegetables twice a day at our lunch and dinner times. He also gets low calorie training treats at various times throughout the day. His weight is stable at 15 pounds for the last several years, so he appears to be burning up those calories. He does walk with me, four to five miles a day, every day.

How about giving us a better picture of your beautiful peppermint Patti.

Ricky's Popi


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> also I think it's great that you picked up on her cue about the daytime meal, it sounds like she's ready for that and it will help. Make sure to back up and take her potty a bit more often while you go through the process of transitioning food
> 
> I would also try to stick with the last vet if you can for future visits.


I agree...stick with this vet...sounds like he took necessary steps to rule out medical conditions. That is critical now and for any future issues. If a vet does not try to get to root cause, I find a new vet. Remember that the vet works for YOU so do not feel bad about switching.


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## expatmama (Apr 29, 2020)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I think you are doing exactly the right things, and that it's just going to take her a little bit longer because she is drinking more, and her bladder isn't fully developed yet. I think this is true of many Havanese puppies, it was definitely true of mine, but I think sometimes people just don't notice it as much when their puppies aren't drinking a lot. For me it did stretch to 4 hours by about 6 months, but I still had to take him out before that if there was any kind of change in routine or if we went on the carpet in a different room.
> 
> I would try to identify when she goes the longest and see if there is a pattern as to what room she is in, or if she's in her playpen, etc. With my puppy he held it longer in our bedroom and family room because he spent the most time there. If there are specific areas where she tends to have accidents more often, try to spend more time in those areas and back up to take her out every hour when you're in that room. If the accidents are in her playpen, make it smaller.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your encouraging words it really helps as sometimes I feel like I am totally on the wrong track! I have also been writing EVERYTHING down everyday, as in when she ate, when she peed when she pooped when she had an accident, when she was excited and had an accident etc. trying to see if it will give me some clarity. Her last water is at 8pm and I make sure she pees twice before bed after her last water, so by 10pm she is in her confinement. She holds until I take her out at 7am and I don't want to jinx her but she has been very good about that thankfully. It was very challenging at first when I got her as she had gotten used to peeing where she slept so it took me a while to "clean" her. Your tip on placing her in the area where she is more likely to pee is very interesting I had not thought of it but I will definitely pay more attention and get her to spend more time there. I don't mind taking her out more often but I was under the impression that she needs to get used to holding it for longer? If I keep taking her out more often then won't she always get used to just emptying her bladder more often?


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

expatmama said:


> I don't mind taking her out more often but I was under the impression that she needs to get used to holding it for longer? If I keep taking her out more often then won't she always get used to just emptying her bladder more often?


She will gradually hold it longer on her own, truly. It takes longer during the daytime, but she's holding it all night so that's a great sign. It's more important to prevent accidents, so if trying to stretch the time means she's having accidents, don't push it. She'll get there on her own. If she consistently goes 2 hours without having an accident, move up to 2:30, but if she has an accident, back up to 2 hours. If she's not having accidents at 2:30, increase it to 3. If you leave the house or change your routine, take her out an extra time. Time doesn't really mean anything to her, so I don't think she's really learning to hold it longer as much as she's physically able to hold it longer. What you're really teaching her is the proper place to go potty when she needs to. The more you can show her that when she's little and needs to go more frequently, the better she'll learn. That's how it makes sense to me, anyway.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

@ricky's Popi ... Here are some pics of Peppermint Patti known as Patty Cake Sweets with the grandkids and her Golden-Doodle buddy Lucy, with longish hair and short hair.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

More... Pattie Cake Sweets


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

deleted


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> What a beauty! Didn't I read on the Forum someplace that she is a Havamix? She sure looks like a 100% Havanese to me. I presume those are your good looking grandsons too. They look like 100% Havalovers to me!
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Patty is AKC registered and comes from good lineage. You have a good eye thinking she's 100% Havanese.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Oh my gosh. Tux is the same way. He will not drink water once it loses it's frigid temp. He loves ice water and will ignore his own bowl if one of us is drinking ice water from a Tervis Tumbler. The colder the better. He also loves licking the ice at the bottom of one of our empty drinks. He also won't touch stale water no matter how long he has gone without drinking. We have to change his water dish frequently.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Tux's Mom said:


> Oh my gosh. Tux is the same way. He will not drink water once it loses it's frigid temp. He loves ice water and will ignore his own bowl if one of us is drinking ice water from a Tervis Tumbler. The colder the better. He also loves licking the ice at the bottom of one of our empty drinks. He also won't touch stale water no matter how long he has gone without drinking. We have to change his water dish frequently.


Patti LOVES! LOVES! small ice cubes. She might like cold water in her bowel but I'm going there to find out. I

was sitting watching TV and having a drink last night. Suddenly, without warning a flying dog landed in my lap and there was almost a drenched dog and mommy. I was NOT happy but she was after the ice and I was ignoring her.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*water*



Tux's Mom said:


> Oh my gosh. Tux is the same way. He will not drink water once it loses it's frigid temp. He loves ice water and will ignore his own bowl if one of us is drinking ice water from a Tervis Tumbler. The colder the better. He also loves licking the ice at the bottom of one of our empty drinks. He also won't touch stale water no matter how long he has gone without drinking. We have to change his water dish frequently.


Sometimes I wonder if this is Perry's issue - but i haven't seen any difference in his drinking even when I change the water in his bottle (new versus water that's been there a few days).


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Melissa Brill said:


> Sometimes I wonder if this is Perry's issue - but i haven't seen any difference in his drinking even when I change the water in his bottle (new versus water that's been there a few days).


Ditto for Patti plus she loves ice cubes. I've never tried giving her ice water and won't be. Don't want to start a New Thing.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

I kept a bottle of water clipped to his playpen when he was a pup. One day I looked at it and ALGAE was growing in it. I did away with the bottles and switched to a small one cup pyrex dish. He will not drink water that isn't fresh, and has a nose for which one of his dehydrated raw Primal food bricks are "not right". I'd be thinking he just wasn't thirsty or maybe had stomach issues, and I'd wait for him to eat his dinner or drink from his bowl (which he never would until I changed it). Now I know, that his nose is the best judge of what isn't right. He occasionally would throw up for no apparent reason. His food hadn't changed.....at least I thought. Apparently the Primal bricks from the same bag differ. I started smelling them myself and sure enough, some were off. I think it's a survival technique. People say their dog is a "fussy" eater, but in my case, his being choosey was keeping him healthy. I respect it when he sniffs and walks away. I toss that dinner, and try another from the same bag, and he will dive right in. No more throwing up.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I switch out the water bowls and change the water in them frequently because I thought fresh water is important. I also do not use plastics bowls which I thought can harbor bacteria. I also thought crunching on ice cubes is bad for the teeth. Maybe I am wrong about these things but this is what I thought. I also filter their water and ours as well.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Sounds really good. I don't let Tux eat ice either. He loves to lick it. It's a sad state of affairs but we have to filter ALL our water in Naples.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Tux's Mom said:


> Sounds really good. I don't let Tux eat ice either. He loves to lick it. It's a sad state of affairs but we have to filter ALL our water in Naples.


Unfortunately, city water in the US is some of the worst so don't feel bad about filtering. Almost all city water has chlorine and fluoride added to it and contains lots of other potential contaminants depending on your particular city. I once read the report for my city and many contaminants were way above acceptable levels. Best to filter it in my opinion.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Melissa Brill said:


> but i haven't seen any difference in his drinking even when I change the water in his bottle (new versus water that's been there a few days).


Melissa, I recommend that water be changed at least once a day, twice is even better. There is potential that bacteria and mold can grow rapidly in water when combined with dog saliva. Also, Ricky refuses to drink from one of those bottles with a spout. He will only drink water from a bowl (we use either stainless steel or glass). and even his bowl is thoroughly sanitized every night.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

mudpuppymama said:


> Unfortunately, city water in the US is some of the worst so don't feel bad about filtering. Almost all city water has chlorine and fluoride added to it and contains lots of other potential contaminants depending on your particular city. I once read the report for my city and many contaminants were way above acceptable levels. Best to filter it in my opinion.


MPM I agree with you. Our water is pretty bad. We use a Britta water filter to improve the taste, BUT it does not filter out all the contaminants you mentioned. The solution is a Reverse Osmosis system that is relatively expensive and requires a lot of maintenance to keep them working properly. An R.O. system is on my "to do" list.

[EDIT] We don't give Ricky ice cubes. He doesn't lick them he chews them. Ricky's Vet was horrified when I told him that. He said absolutely don't let him chew ice cubes. It will crack the enamel on his teeth and cause tooth and gum disease. And then he said, "That goes for you too Popi!"

Ricky's Popi


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Ricky, you mentioned stainless steel bowls. I bought 6 of the high quality stainless with tops. (They come in sets of three). It's called "Messy Mutts". These are wonderful and come out of the dishwasher looking bright and shiny and brand new every time. Tux eats four times a day, so it's nice to have a clean bowl at the ready. Great for quick travel trips that require a to-go meal. See Photo.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> MPM I agree with you. Our water is pretty bad. We use a Britta water filter to improve the taste, BUT it does not filter out all the contaminants you mentioned. The solution is a Reverse Osmosis system that is relatively expensive and requires a lot of maintenance to keep them working properly. An R.O. system is on my "to do" list.
> 
> [EDIT] We don't give Ricky ice cubes. He doesn't lick them he chews them. Ricky's Vet was horrified when I told him that. He said absolutely don't let him chew ice cubes. It will crack the enamel on his teeth and cause tooth and gum disease. And then he said, "That goes for you too Popi!"
> 
> Ricky's Popi


We use a Berkey filter with the additional fluoride filters. Hard to get the fluoride out but these help get most of it out. An RO system removes everything...good and bad...and there are some food minerals in water. The Berkey can also be used in case of emergencies to filter yucky water in case it ever comes to that which hopefully it won't. Anyway, just wanted to pass this on as a good option that is easy and not too expensive. Here is a picture of ours...sorry picture is sideways.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

OMG!!! - PLAEEEZE! A couple of small ice cubes or chips are not isn't going to hurt a dogs or anyone's teeth. Such over reactions on this forum.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

mudpuppymama said:


> We use a Berkey filter with the additional fluoride filters. ..................just wanted to pass this on as a good option that is easy and not too expensive.


Thanks MPM, but Berkeys are banned in California because they are not certified as "lead free." Berkey says, trust us, they are lead free but we don't want to spend the money to have them certified. They are allowed for outdoor, non-potable use like for plant irrigation but that's not good enough for me and I will pass on a Berkey.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Mikki said:


> OMG!!! - PLAEEEZE! A couple of small ice cubes or chips are not isn't going to hurt a dogs or anyone's teeth. Such over reactions on this forum.


I going to take the advice from Ricky's experienced Vet . Ricky's Vet and I work as a team to keep Ricky in the tip top physical and healthy condition he is in today.

Ricky's Popi


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Thanks MPM, but Berkeys are banned in California because they are not certified as "lead free." Berkey says, trust us, they are lead free but we don't want to spend the money to have them certified. They are allowed for outdoor, non-potable use like for plant irrigation but that's not good enough for me and I will pass on a Berkey.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Interesting! I did not know that.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Regarding feeding ice to a dog...

As with anything - depending on certain conditions like exact size of chip, aggressive chewing style of dog, etc. perhaps it would be okay to feed some small ice chips but some people may not want to take a chance and worry about all those IFs.

I feed raw bones. Now some people freak out about that but I make sure ones I feed are soft enough for my dogs and will not hurt their teeth and are suited to their chewing style. However, marrow bones and hooves are terrible tooth breakers and many people think it is okay to feed them even though they freak out about feeding a chicken neck. I know many dogs with tooth fractures because of marrow bones and hooves.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone needs to assess risk and decide whether or not something is worth it.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> I switch out the water bowls and change the water in them frequently because I thought fresh water is important. I also do not use plastics bowls which I thought can harbor bacteria. I also thought crunching on ice cubes is bad for the teeth. Maybe I am wrong about these things but this is what I thought. I also filter their water and ours as well.


I think with the type of bowls it matters less if they are cleaned often and properly. I wash it at night and use ceramic. I change the water at each meal and I check it in the afternoon, or if we go for a walk and come back in. I have no idea if that's frequent!

Mine doesn't crunch on the ice, he just licks it. He LOVES it.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Mikki said:


> OMG!!! - PLAEEEZE! A couple of small ice cubes or chips are not isn't going to hurt a dogs or anyone's teeth. Such over reactions on this forum.


My dad is a dentist and he says to never chew ice.

I do it anyway, but I just realized I only do it when I'm alone. I must be subconsciously hiding my crunching ice from my dad, lol. It's stress relief! I dream of a French door refrigerator with pebble ice in my kitchen one day.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> My dad is a dentist and he says to never chew ice.


That's what my dentist says too, AFTER I chewed on an ice cube, cracked a tooth, had to have it extracted, and then a bridge put in. :frusty: Several thousand $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ later.

Everyone has to do what they think is best for their dog. We are individually their primary guardian. I suppose it will vary from person to person.

Ricky's Popi


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*bowls/ bottles*



Ricky Ricardo said:


> Melissa, I recommend that water be changed at least once a day, twice is even better. There is potential that bacteria and mold can grow rapidly in water when combined with dog saliva. Also, Ricky refuses to drink from one of those bottles with a spout. He will only drink water from a bowl (we use either stainless steel or glass). and even his bowl is thoroughly sanitized every night.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Perry only uses a bottle for water (and the water that rehydrates his food) - so no saliva... when we used a bowl for water he was throwing up a lot more - most likely because he was drinking too fast and then throwing up - we switched to a bottle and now he very rarely throws up (except when we're in the US and he has access to a water bowl because my Mom's dog uses one). I wasn't sure he'd get used to it - the first few days I was sure we'd have to scrap it - but then he figured it out (lots of peanut butter on the end of the spout helped  ) and it's all he uses - we have one on his crate and one on a stand in the living room.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> What a beauty! * Didn't I read on the Forum someplace that she is a Havamix? She sure looks like a 100% Havanese to me.* I presume those are your good looking grandsons too. They look like 100% Havalovers to me!
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Patrick,

You asked online for me to share information about Patti and then followed up that request with a PM. In our PM chat, I provided information about Patti telling you she was AKC registered, after you told me Ricky Ricardo came from a Championship Line.

After you twice asked for me to provide pictures I uploaded them. *Then in a reply you say.... some where you read she is a Havamix .... "she sure looks like a 100% Havanese to me." * Hummmmm....

I do wonder about your motivations.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Mikki said:


> I do wonder about your motivations.


I am sorry for any misunderstandings, I apologize. I have deleted the post that offended you.

Ricky's Popi


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I really wish when people are going to jump all over other people in the forum they could do it privately. I personally find it very disturbing.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

mudpuppymama said:


> I really wish when people are going to jump all over other people in the forum they could do it privately. I personally find it very disturbing.


Sometimes it's not possible when other's are manipulative and passive aggressive.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Mikki said:


> @ricky's Popi ... Here are some pics of Peppermint Patti known as Patty Cake Sweets with the grandkids and her Golden-Doodle buddy Lucy, with longish hair and short hair.


Great photos - and boy, you have some really good looking grandkids! Must be some good genes in your family!


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