# Identifying a Havanese



## KMAX (Apr 8, 2007)

Hi everyone! I was at a animal shelter today and may have found a Hav. I'm not sure though. It came in today as a stray and must be held for 7 days before it's available for adoption. They identified it as a Maltese mix and maybe it was but it looked to be about 15 to 17 lbs and looked like it may be a Havanese but could be a Lowchen or Coton De Tulear.

The poor thing looked terrible, would not get up and just laid at the back of his cage. I tried to get him to stand up to see if the topline had a rise from front to rear but that didn't happen. He really looked in shock and remained still, not barking at all. 

I figure eventually he'll start walking and I'll be able to take him out of the cage (after 7 days). My question is, other than the topline rise are there any other sure ways to identify a Hav as a Hav. Does anyone know if a Lowchen walks on their back legs? Maybe if he walks on his rear legs and has a topline rise that would be enough proof.

Any ideas?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

It can be really hard especially a dog in rescue case where they have been shaved down. When the havanese I fostered came to me, he was shaved to the skin. I went to identify a maltese the other day for a rescue group and he was at the shelter in full coat (his previous owners did a better job grooming than me). I would say the best thing is to take a look at each of the breed standards that you could possibly identify the dog as. Maybe take them with you.

I don't know enough about Lowchen's standard to help though! Where are you located maybe there is someone on this list that could go with you? Or if you can take pictures! You could also drop a note to [email protected]

Amanda


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## KMAX (Apr 8, 2007)

Thanks Ama0722. The shelter will not allow pictures to be taken. Although after 7 days I could probably take him outside, take some pictures and post them. I'm in the beautiful state of New Jersey!


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## KMAX (Apr 8, 2007)

Ama0722 do you know of any other breeds that look like a Havanese?


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Many mutts can look like a Havanese. The really only difference is the topline. But if a Havanese was mixed with another breed, I suppose that too could be "passed" down.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

There is only one real way to tell if it is a Havanese. Give him a piece of paper. See if he has the shredding gene.  




(and yes, I'm being a bit silly)


On a serious note, without papers you will probably never know for sure. I've seen a lot of purebred Havanese that have a straight topline or a sloping topline (wrong direction), even in the show ring.


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## KMAX (Apr 8, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> There is only one real way to tell if it is a Havanese. Give him a piece of paper. See if he has the shredding gene.
> 
> (and yes, I'm being a bit silly)
> 
> On a serious note, without papers you will probably never know for sure. I've seen a lot of purebred Havanese that have a straight topline or a sloping topline (wrong direction), even in the show ring.


Good one! and what about run like hell?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh, by the way, when I said "without papers you will probably never know for sure" I meant registration papers that show his parentage. I wasn't talking about the paper shredding test there. LOL


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Kimberly and Kmax - I agree with paper shredding and run like hell, a true Hav has to do both. lol


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I think the llaso apso also looks like a havanese...Shih tzus are often what people think a havanese is,but you would definitely know this by the smushed muzzle.I think the closest look alikes besides the ones mentioned are the maltese..I am not familiar with the low chen,but size should help you there right?Isn't a low chen quite abit bigger then a havanese?Another thing to look for is the body line.A hav is long,like a rectangle...not square,and if the top line is at a rise.The rescue dog sounds pretty big,though some can get quite large.I hope this is the hav you are looking for-How cool !!!!  perhaps coat texture too!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I can usually tell maltese vs. havanese as I have one of each. I agree with a lot of posters those. I had my rescue Havanese that had AKC papers but he was about 3 inches taller than the standard and weighed 18lbs! But he did have papers. He had a sweet attitude-loving, playful, and just overall happy and he was an adorable guy once he grew hair!

I have said is that a havanese to a Coton on more than one occasion though! I think maybe if you asked people who knew both breeds, they could probably say this is X better than the average person. Also a heads up, shelters often write the wrong breed quite often!

I am not anywhere near you and don't know any rescue people in the area unfortunetly! Maybe get the dog out and spend some time with it. I would sneak some cell phone pics


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

KMAX -that is a hard one, especially if you connect with the dog (in 7 days) and fall in love. Then if it is not a Hav - what do you do?? Hope it goes well for you. Where in NJ are you?? 
Laurie


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## KMAX (Apr 8, 2007)

I'm in North Jersey. It may be a Lhasa Apso, they do look close. Supposedly the Lhasa has hair that parts at the spine. I think the Lhasa Apso may be the likely choice, because they are pretty common.

Laurief, you are right, I see your point. However, if I took the dog and found out it wasn't a Hav, I would still keep it. Even if I was sure it was a Hav before I adopted it, I still might not take it. He may be too psychologically damaged for me to handle.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

KMAX - I am in central Jersey - it is nice to meet someone from around here. I do feel that if it were me, and I met the dog & fell in love, I would keep it not matter what it was too!! 
We got a Laso from a rescued organization before we got our first Hav. It was with us only a week & had to go back as he was very aggressive with my cats - But he was a cutie, he had a huge underbite - loved to be here, but the cats were here first, so they got preference. The cats never had any problem with the Havs - the Havs just wanted to play with them. I since have lost my 2 cats, but also have a ferret & rabbit & Lexi LOVES the rabbit. Exchanges kisses with her all the time.  Let us know what you decide!


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I have had three Havanese and I have a friend who has a Havanese . Each one has a different type of coat - so-o0 that may not be the true litmus test .
I agree with the run like Hell and the neck and roll play that Hav's do but this little fellow is in distress and he sounds like he has shut down and he is not showing his true personality right now .. 
I think it is time to ask Tom what he thinks ..
What is a dominant feature that would help us to identify this little guy as a Havanese ..


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Love Kimberly's suggestion of giving the dog some paper and see what he does with it! lol

I was at a dog show on Sat. and made the mistake of thinking a Coton de Tulear was a Havanese. I do that often when I'm too quick in assessing the dog. In my mind, the Coton and even the Lhasa Apso are probably the closest looking ones to the Hav. There is a difference in how they carry themselves though. The Coton doesn't have the spring in it's step that the Hav does and they are "poofier" most times. Thing is, like Cosmosmom mentioned, the type of coat can vary from one Hav to the next. 

Many Havs' have that part down the middle of the back, so that can be misleading too. There's the eyes, that "should" be almond shaped, but more Havs seem to be bred with the rounder shaped eye, so who knows?

With the dog not being in his normal state of mind, you might not get to see it's true personality so it could be hard to figure out. The poor thing.... I wonder what his history was before he got to the shelter.


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## KMAX (Apr 8, 2007)

LaurieF, I live in Union County, Exit 137 on the GSP. I'm never sure if that's northern or central Jersey. 
Yes, I agree the coat can be misleading, especially to me. It's helpful to know that Cotons don't have a spring in their step.

I went back to see him yesterday and he was in the middle of the cage lying down. He just layed their looking at me, not moving and not trying to get up. His white coat was very dirty and usually if they come in dirty then there isn't anyone looking for them. So he probably will not get claimed. They pegged his age at 5 years. 

When he becomes available I'll take him outside and see how he walks and behaves. Of course as much as a feel sorry for him, I also realize a dog like this may not be right for me. He may be better off in a rescue home.
He's still young and small and these are the dogs that get adopted quickly.

Thanks for the info!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I am from Somerset County - I do believe that Union is northern NJ. It is really good that you are taking this slowly and not assuming that you will take in this pup. Do the rescue people say anything about his activities, does he get up at all? Let us know how you make out.
Laurie


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I used to live in Madsion and Florham Park and I think that was considered to be Northern N J . ..


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

KMAX-please let us know how you turn out,if the shelter dog becomes available and what you decide to do!We are curious!


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## KMAX (Apr 8, 2007)

Well thanks for the interest. I went today and found him laying down, trembling. I'm not sure why he was trembling, no one else was there. I don't think my presence scared him and he is being well taken care of by the shelter.

I knelt down to his cage and spoke softly to him and after a few minutes he got up and came to the front. I thought that's a start. I then put my hand against the front of the cage and he sniffed at it and looked away. I like to see a dog try to lick my hand and if I move my hand to continue trying to lick it. Pressing their body against the front of the cage to try and get closer to me is another sign of an affectionate dog. He didn't do that, maybe he'll come around with time. He is very docile, not hostile at all. 

When he was standing I was able to look at him from head to tail and did not see a topline rise. It's still hard to tell what he is but I would not bet he is a Havanese. Saturday he will be able to be adopted and I will be able to take some pictures and post them here.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

The poor pooch. I think he has come around a lot from a week ago. Lord only knows what he's been through. Getting up and approaching you was such a big step. I bet next time he'll give you a kiss! He just needs to feel safe and trust someone again.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Look forward to seeing the pictures .. 
Kodi's Mom is right is sounds like he made a giant step approaching you .. Next time I am sure he will recognize you .. Yeah !! She's back !!
This is why I stay away from shelters and pet stores .I would take them all home ..


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## vfeldman (Jan 26, 2007)

Unfortunately his behavior sounds like he was not in a good situation, so the paper shredding and running like hell may take awhile. My first 2 Havs are also on the bigger side and I have seen lots of different toplines....the eyes sometimes may be an indicator (almond). He may be a mix which is why it is hard to tell. I hope he goes to a loving home where he will be able to put the above behaviors into action.


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## KMAX (Apr 8, 2007)

Hi, I went back to see him and took him outside. Outside he became a wildman. No leash manners at all so it was hard to get a picture of his face.
He didn't bark at all. Here are a couple of pictures, if I can get them attached


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## KMAX (Apr 8, 2007)

Well that was the first time I uploaded pictures, it was easier than trying to take a face shot of him. It's hard to tell anything from that shot.


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## Olliesmom (Sep 29, 2006)

What a QT!! ARe you considering an addition???

Olliesmom


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

He is cute!! It sounds as if you are going to have a long road ahead of you if you adopt him. What do you think you will do??


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

KMAX- he looks a lot like my Jasper. I wouldn't bet that he is not a havanese. 
he definetly doesn't look like a ****zu to me. could be a coton- but I thought they were smaller than the HAV's he is very cute. Let us know what you decide to do.... the eyes are def Hav eyes


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

KMAX- he looks a lot like my Jasper. I wouldn't bet that he is not a havanese. 
he definetly doesn't look like a ****zu to me. could be a coton- but I thought they were smaller than the HAV's he is very cute. Let us know what you decide to do....


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I think it is really hard to tell if he is a havanese or not,but he sure is a cute guy!I bet he would clean up nicely...one "sign"of a hav is they are not supposed to bark much...so that is a good sign.It seems odd to me that any havanese would make it to an animal shelter at all because they are such great dogs and VERY expensive,but I guess they do!Here no one has ever heard of one,or seen one,so to have one show up here at the humane society would be impossible.He looks similar to the dog you have as your avatar!Keep us posted!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

I think KMAX has estimated the weight and not acutally taken it. But here are my thoughts: The nose does not look like a lhasa or ****zu. It seems tooo big for a maltese. I would not rule out poodle mix, especially with the curlier hair. 

The impotant thing is if this is the dog that you want. The actual breed may be irrevelant if this is the dog that meets your needs.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

> The actual breed may be irrevelant if this is the dog that meets your needs.


I completely agree!

However things work out, KMAX, I wish the best for you and the dog both. If you choose to adopt him, you definitely have to keep us updated on his progress and your adventures together.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Kmax,

I agree with Cheryl, he doesn't look much like a shih tzu or a laso, as he has nose (not flat faced) and shih tzus and lasos have an underbite. He could be a mix of either one of the two breeds with a poodle, mabe a maltese/poodle mix.....who knows. The important thing is to find out if he is the dog for you. 

Misty - Cotons are actually slightly larger than Havs. According to Coton's standard they can't be taller than 13" and no more than 18 lbs.


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## KMAX (Apr 8, 2007)

Poodle! that may be it, I didn't think of that. It makes sense because like Julie said it is unlikely that a Hav would make it to shelter and there aren't that many around compared to a Maltese and Poodle. A Maltese/Poodle mix seems likely. 
I am going to pass on this one. He'll find a furever home, dogs like him are in demand and he was likeable. I picked him up and he didn't object. I rolled him over on his back, held him down and he didn't bite or growl. Not aggressive at all.
Oh well, the search goes on. Today I'm going to a dog show in West Windsor NJ. The Havanese will be "on stage" at about 1PM. I want to check out the Dachshunds too. If anyone is in the area stop in. 26 Havs are slated to show. 
http://www.raudogshows.com/shows/May/Trenton.html


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

WHOA! 26 Hav?!  And I was thrilled to bits to see 8 of them at once two weekends ago! lol Have a great time and let us know how the show goes.

That dog is a cutie and likely does have a bit of poodle in him. We'll never know, but I do hope he finds a good home.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I just thought I would post this here. Buyer beware. Just saw a "new breed" advertised online - Chivanese - Chihuahua/Havanese. What are they doing to our lovely breed?


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## Lola (Mar 22, 2007)

Kmax,
There is another breed that is very similiar to the Havanese called Russian Tsvetnaya Bolonka. It has curly hair just like the one in the picture and can be any color like the Havanese. There is a breeder in Bethlehem called Ahavapicaro and one in South Jersey called Fairekamalot. These two breeders both breed the Bolonka and the Havanese. They are listed in the in the Havanese Club of America in the Delaware Valley Havanese Club. They might be able to help you identify the little dog if you send those pictures to them. I have a Bolonka and a Havanese and the Bolonka has very curly hair like the one in the picture and also a tale like it. The Bolonka has big round eyes. The breeders both have pictures on their site to look at. If you go the the Delaware Valley Havanese club you will be able to click on to their site. Ahavapicaro is in the process of moving right now and may not be on line but check anyway. There are many picrtures from both the breeders.


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## KMAX (Apr 8, 2007)

I'm Back from the show and I'm not sure what happened but there weren't many entries that showed up. I saw about 10 Havs. I also saw a Lowchen for the first time and was speaking with the owner and he said they are just like a Havanese. It looked like a Hav to me, they definitely are closely related. 
I didn't see as many Dachsies as I hoped to see either.

I now wish I had taken a picture of the Lowchen. Instead my best picture was of these Spaniels. I love Spaniels when they are bred correctly.

A Chivanese?  I don't want to think about that. Why? That's like breeding a Hav and a Dachshund. Why do that? I agree with you Irnfit.

Lola, yes I am familar with the Bolonka. I keep forgetting about them because there isn't much info on them. I have spoken by phone to Candi from Faireland, nice lady, she was the one who first told me about Bolonkas.

The Bolonka and Hav are similar in many ways. Seeing as how you have both what are the differences? I know the Bolonka is smaller, about 8-10 lbs if I remember correctly. How much grooming is there compared to your Hav?

Here's the link for others to visit. Interesting dog, again if I remember correctly they were not welcomed in Russia because they weren't working dogs and lap dogs didn't serve a purpose. But they survived.
http://www.fairelandhavanese.com/TSVETNAYABOLONKAENTER.html
Another site,
http://www.tsvetnayabolonka.homestead.com/


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

KMAX - gee I wish I had knows about the show in West Windsor, I probably would have gone!!! I am sure that you made the best decision for you with regard to the shelter dog. If you decided that a Hav is right for you - I would be happy to provide you with the website for my breeder in PA. Although she does not have a litter right now, she always have several thru the year. 
Laurie


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Me, too, Laurie. I looked it up, and it said it was only 1-1/2 hrs from me. It was a nice day for driving, too. Oh, well. I'll try to catch the next one. I went to a show last week, and mine were the only Havs that I saw there. It was a fun match.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Kmax,
Thanks for sharing the picture from the show!Beautiful color!


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