# Raw vs Kibble, "What Should I Feed my Dog?"



## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-pet-foods-and-the-avma-part-1/

Not everyone can feed raw, for any of several reasons, but this is good information to know in general.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

thanks Sheri, I hadn't seen that one.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Would have been more interesting to me if they had tested the name number of dogs in both the raw fed and kibble fed groups. This seems a little misleading as they tested almost four times as many dogs in one group as they did in the other one.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Sheri said:


> http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-pet-foods-and-the-avma-part-1/
> 
> Not everyone can feed raw, for any of several reasons, but this is good information to know in general.


Here is the problem with the article tia Sheri, down at the bottom it says,
"David Brock is a raw pet food consultant with many years experience in feeding a raw, species appropriate diet for dogs and cats. He was instrumental in the setting up, development and rapid expansion of an award winning raw pet food company in the UK and currently resides with his partner and four dogs in Atlanta, USA, where he advises Allprovide Fresh Pet Foods in marketing, product development and customer service. "

Senor Brock is hardly unbiased. He has a financial stake in promoting his raw pet food company. His conclusions are preceded by "in my opinion." He is welcome to his opinions but that is hardly a scientific conclusion. The results of the study are interesting but there is no backup for the methodology used or professional interpretations of the results.

There is no one "right" food for us doggies. It all depends on the individual needs of your specific doggie. I recommend that you discuss this decision with your trusted vet. (S)he may recommend that you consult a Board Certified Pet Nutritionist. Then YOU decide what is best for your doggie rather than relying on anecdotal information posted on the Internet.

I can tell you what mi diet is (after consulting with mi vet), but that is inconsequential because mi diet may not be appropriate for your doggie.

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Here is the problem with the article tia Sheri, down at the bottom it says,
> "David Brock is a raw pet food consultant with many years experience in feeding a raw, species appropriate diet for dogs and cats. He was instrumental in the setting up, development and rapid expansion of an award winning raw pet food company in the UK and currently resides with his partner and four dogs in Atlanta, USA, where he advises Allprovide Fresh Pet Foods in marketing, product development and customer service. "
> 
> Senor Brock is hardly unbiased. He has a financial stake in promoting his raw pet food company. His conclusions are preceded by "in my opinion." He is welcome to his opinions but that is hardly a scientific conclusion. The results of the study are interesting but there is no backup for the methodology used or professional interpretations of the results.
> ...


most people that have a business are biased towards that business :frusty:


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I would need lots more detailed information about this study.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I would also be interested to see the results of saliva samples on the dogs, not just stool samples.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

here is more on this by Jean Dodds

__
https://34362052572%2Fraw-dog-food-versus-cooked%23.VYGdQY3bJMt


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Everyone is biased about everything, I doubt it is possible to not be biased.  Hopefully we can at least be open to hearing evidence from the "other side," consider it, and either take it into our own beliefs or set is aside after that consideration. 

I know that even in humans, doctors are not trained in nutrition. Nurses, Naturopaths, and unconventional health professionals have much more training in that field because their training is much more from a preventative approach. Doctors train to fix problems, not to prevent them.

I see this in the vets, also. I had a lot of difficulty with Tucker's digestive system from the time he was a puppy, (I am convinced that all the early vaccinations given all at once weakened his system.) After much research (long story short,) I ended up feeding him a raw diet by about age 1-1/2 years old. He had much better stools and overall health with raw. (He is 8 years old, now.)


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

koodos Sheri, and koodos to Jean Dodds for speaking out in defense of raw foods even though she knew she was pissing off AVMA s position.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Sheri said:


> I ended up feeding him a raw diet by about age 1-1/2 years old. He had much better stools and overall health with raw. (He is 8 years old, now.)


Would mi amigo Tucker be doing just as well on a kibble diet?

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I do appreciate Dr. Dodds very much. She has done much to help all dogs to find better health, through various ways.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

No, Ricky, kibble would be much simpler, but Tucker definitely does OBSERVABLY better on a good, safe, well-researched, raw diet.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

davetgabby said:


> most people that have a business are biased towards that business :frusty:


Then how can anyone know if that biased person is giving accurate information or just trying to promote their own business for profit? :lalala:

su amigo. Ricky Ricardo


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

davetgabby said:


> here is more on this by Jean Dodds
> 
> __
> https://34362052572%2Fraw-dog-food-versus-cooked%23.VYGdQY3bJMt


I guess I have a problem feeding raw because we do not eat meat. I always look at the raw food in the pet store, but I just can't buy it.uke: I try my best to balance their diet with cooked chicken, roast beef, vegetables, cottage cheese, Orijen and Acana kibble.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I imagine that if you are a vegetarian or vegan, (not sure of the difference,  ) it would not be at all pleasant to feed anything that even vaguely resembled meat.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

We eat chicken and fish, but meat just is not appealing to me. I walk quickly by the butcher department.:biggrin1:


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Sheri said:


> No, Ricky, kibble would be much simpler, but Tucker definitely does OBSERVABLY better on a good, safe, well-researched, raw diet.


Tia Sheri, it would be helpful to know the details of your controlled study comparing kibble to raw. What kibble were you feeding? You said mi amigo Tucker digestion problems were the result of vaccinations. Are you saying that because in your opinion Tucker is doing better on a raw diet, all doggies should be on a raw diet?

Bottom line is, you peoples are going to believe whatever you want to believe. I have a good vet and mi Popi works with him hand in hand to keep me happy and healthy and I choose to believe and trust him. I am recommending that peoples work with a trusted vet to develop a nutritional program for their doggie based on that doggies individual requirements. Do not rely on anecdotal opinions on the Internet.

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

If you find a vet that you trust, that is important. 

Even though you ask for details about my struggles with Tucker's digestive system, I won't go into that. It would be pretty extensive and I doubt you'd want to read it all. Most of the foods I went through to find his best health were what were what are considered to be of the highest quality. (Not grocery store quality, though I had even tried them at the beginning.)

I do want to point out to you that I didn't say Tuckers problems WERE the result of vaccinations, but that: "I am convinced that all the early vaccinations given all at once weakened his system." I don't KNOW that, but it is my biased opinion based on what I have seen in Tucker and read about with other small breed dogs, and what makes sense to me.

By the way, he does do quite well on dehydrated quality foods, too. But, it is messier in his beard, so I don't feed him that as often.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Then how can anyone know if that biased person is giving accurate information or just trying to promote their own business for profit? :lalala:
> 
> su amigo. Ricky Ricardo


:focus:


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

davetgabby said:


> :focus:


Here is what canine nutritionist, Sabine thinks about the question whether to feed raw or kibble:

Sabine finds what food you want for your dog whether it is kibble or raw , homecooked ,canned or whatever. It is a personal choice. Some dogs cant' handle raw, so it's not always the "preferred" for all dogs.

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## Zoe093014 (Jan 27, 2015)

off topic ... but just want to say that these debates about the best dog food are great! Very informative and enjoyable to follow.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I, too, think it is good to know about issues, research them, and make our best choices, whatever they may be. As long as we are informed and using our heads. :ear:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Here's an interesting article&#8230; It doesn't talk about specific KINDS of food, but separates the "wheat from the chaff" (so to speak ) in terms of types and quality of ingredients:

http://iheartdogs.com/company-resea...rmulas-and-finds-only-119-to-be-satisfactory/


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> Here's an interesting article&#8230; It doesn't talk about specific KINDS of food, but separates the "wheat from the chaff" (so to speak ) in terms of types and quality of ingredients:
> 
> http://iheartdogs.com/company-resea...rmulas-and-finds-only-119-to-be-satisfactory/


Gracias, tia Karen, interesting reading. I ALWAYS read the "comments" section after first skimming any article. A significant number of peoples commentators thought that the study was flawed. No se, I don't know enough to have an opinion one way or the other. Overall, I think the article is interesting and helpful. The chart that is particularly helpful is the "Quick Dog Food Type Comparison." which is "fair and balanced" in a generalized way. There is one type of dog food that stands out as most appropriate for mi familia lifestyle.

It is interesting to note that FreshPet or Darwins did not make the cut. They say at the end of the article that if a certain brand was not on their recommended list, then it did not meet their criteria. Part of mi diet is TOTW and it didn't make the cut either, only because the label has been sold to Diamond Foods.  I know the writers of this article don't like corporate giants like Diamond, but I don't know if that should be an exclusive requirement for elimination from the list. :suspicious:

I'll take a good piece of stinky anchovy pizza or racoon poop anyday! :brushteeth:

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

krandall said:


> Here's an interesting article&#8230; It doesn't talk about specific KINDS of food, but separates the "wheat from the chaff" (so to speak ) in terms of types and quality of ingredients:
> 
> http://iheartdogs.com/company-resea...rmulas-and-finds-only-119-to-be-satisfactory/


I have major problems with this "study" . If you want expert advise on selecting a safe and healthy dog food. talk to a nutritionist.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Gracias, tia Karen, interesting reading. I ALWAYS read the "comments" section after first skimming any article. A significant number of peoples commentators thought that the study was flawed. No se, I don't know enough to have an opinion one way or the other. Overall, I think the article is interesting and helpful. The chart that is particularly helpful is the "Quick Dog Food Type Comparison." which is "fair and balanced" in a generalized way. There is one type of dog food that stands out as most appropriate for mi familia lifestyle.
> 
> It is interesting to note that FreshPet or Darwins did not make the cut. They say at the end of the article that if a certain brand was not on their recommended list, then it did not meet their criteria. Part of mi diet is TOTW and it didn't make the cut either, only because the label has been sold to Diamond Foods.  I know the writers of this article don't like corporate giants like Diamond, but I don't know if that should be an exclusive requirement for elimination from the list. :suspicious:
> 
> ...


I won't use food processed in Diamond plants either. There have been too many past problems. I didn't see Freshpet or Darwin's on EITHER the "good" or "bad" lists. I don't think the lists were exhaustive. I also don't look at it as a "study"&#8230; it's more a compilation of information on various foods. They said that even they weren't totally happy with their selection criteria either. It was interesting to see WHY they put a food on either list. If it's not something that's important to you, you can ignore that factor.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

one recall does not make a food bad forever .


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

davetgabby said:


> If you want expert advise on selecting a safe and healthy dog food. talk to a nutritionist.


:tape:

su amigo, Ricky Ricardo


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

Kibble can have problems and kill dogs the same as raw. The reason many vets are against a raw diet is not because raw diets are bad, but because they interpret "raw diet" as "let me throw that chicken wing in the bowl for fido" which isnt a good idea either.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

krandall said:


> I won't use food processed in Diamond plants either. There have been too many past problems. I didn't see Freshpet or Darwin's on EITHER the "good" or "bad" lists. I don't think the lists were exhaustive. I also don't look at it as a "study"&#8230; it's more a compilation of information on various foods. They said that even they weren't totally happy with their selection criteria either. It was interesting to see WHY they put a food on either list. If it's not something that's important to you, you can ignore that factor.


just as one example of an error , no Wellness foods have been manufactured by Diamond in quite some time, they severed their business relationship.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I have been struggling with my guys diets since wee pups. Bella had the worst diet because she won't eat anything. For the most part everything I have been feeding over the last 8 years is on Ricky's list. I've gone from Primal, to Stella's and Chewy's, to Ziwipeak, to fromm's, back to Primal & S & C, and now Acana. My guys had a month of upset stomach. I wasn't sure if it was from the raw digesting too quickly so I switched them to Acana 6 months ago. They are doing fine on the Acana so I haven't changed it. Might want to try Earthborn soon...


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## HavGracie (Feb 27, 2012)

Gracie used to eat TOTW, until they had a recall. I then switched to Acana two years ago, and she does fine on that. At this point, I don't have any reason to switch.


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

Molly120213 said:


> Would have been more interesting to me if they had tested the name number of dogs in both the raw fed and kibble fed groups. This seems a little misleading as they tested almost four times as many dogs in one group as they did in the other one.


Yeah, as a scientist, this "study" is ridiculous- not presented in any meaningful way- they may as well have just put made up numbers up unless you are willing to do the multiplication to actually compare!


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