# What kind of Bones??



## Redorr

In various threads I have read mention of giving chicken necks and marrow bones and pork bones to dogs to munch on. What are the kind of bones I should be buying/requesting of the butcher? And they should always be raw, right? Cooked bones can splinter? I don't think I can go the half a rabbit route that the guys in Toronto have, but I know Lola would love to munch on a bone for about 5 hours! It seems more natuiral than the frozen cream cheese in the Kong.


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## Beamer

Hi Anne!

Is your dog currently a raw feeder? if so I'm sure he/she will LOVE the raw meaty bones!

I giev my Beamer beef neck bones and pork bones... He seems to liek the prok bones more..

Yes, raw bones are the way to go, as cooked bones can/could/will splinter... perhaps in a large breed dog its ok, but for the small guys, it could casue some serious issues..

I have yet to venture over to the half rabbit.. i took sa look last week at the store, and I knew my wife would have a problem with it, so i saved myself some troubke and did not bring it home.. lol... but Daniel's guys seem to enjoy..soooooooooo...

I also feed Beamer chicken necks.. but have never fed him marrow bones as they are VERY HARD and could potentially break his teeth$$$$$$$. Prolly best to leave the marrow bones for the larger breed dogs..

Ryan


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## DanielBMe

I think you have to distinguish between recreational bones and raw meaty bones.

Raw meaty bones (or RMBs) are soft enough for the dog to chew up and eat - things like chicken necks, turkey necks, or duck necks, which make up about 60% of your dog’s diet and 50% of your cat’s diet. Recreational bones, on the other hand, are larger bones that the dog will chew on but will not eat the whole bone - things like beef marrow or beef neck bones.

As to the rabbit. I don't think I'll buy those anymore. My guys were constipated for almost 2 days afterwards. I haven't seen any pork bones but to be honest I'm a little nervous now buying pork after it being in the news lately. Apparently there's some bacteria that they are finding on almost all pork which is like a super bacteria.

I think for recreational bones the beef necks seem to be best for my guys. I buy them in two different sizes, toy and small. The toy ones I feed more frequently just to give them something quick, whereas the small ones will keep my guys busy for 2hrs.


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## Redorr

When you give them a RMB, is that in place of a meal? Lola eats Nature's Variety raw freeze-dried and kibble, but not hardcore raw! I am not certain I want to disrupt her diet as she has been a great eater (and pooper). 

So it looks like the recreational bones is more what I am looking for. Just something to keep her happy for a few hours. She gets bored with bully sticks after about an hour. 


Thanks, guys!


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## Beamer

When I give Beamer the RMB's, I replace it with 1 meal if the bone is brand new, becasue there is so much meat on it and he will eat first before actually chewing on the bone. The first few times I gave him the bones Imade the mistake of feedinghim then tossing him a bone.. 
I have a scale and I weighed it before and after the first feeding. He took over 3onces of meat/bone off it in about. so that plus his dinner of 2oz, he was eating way to much.. lol

Ryan


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## DanielBMe

With the RMB I sometimes feed Bogie 2 or 3 chicken necks for dinner. If I feed them a recreational bone, I will usually give them maybe one chicken neck then toss them the bones. I kinda figured that the bones have about 2 oz or so of meat on them. I feed my guys a little more since I have two and they keep pretty active playing all day.


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## marjrc

I've given the dogs bones before, straight from the freezer usually, but have to wonder how you guys do it? Does the dog stay on a towel, in one room, in his crate? How do you avoid having raw meaty bones and chunks/juices all over the house? Summer is coming - probably one day - and I hate the idea of raw meat on our wood deck outside and even worse in the house.

Any ideas on how to avoid the mess?


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## Beamer

Hi Marj!

Yeah, this was a concern for me to. I place the bone on a very large beach towel. Beamer knows not to take it off the blanket.. he used to try along time ago, but not any more!

Ryan


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## DanielBMe

Same here, on a blanket. Brando will try to take the bone somewhere else every once in awhile. I just send him back to the blanket...an old bed sheet of mine. I have to wash it weekly though.


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## marjrc

I will try that. Thanks, guys.  I find that Sammy gets totally 'cave man' when he's got a bone/treat and there is tension between the two so I like to keep them separate. I'll try again soon.


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## marjrc

Update on the RMB's here. I've been giving the pooches raw chicken drumsticks lately and though Ricky thought it was some alien creature and wouldn't go near it at first, he now loves them as much as Sammy does. Believe it or not, I have had to sprinkle some crushed dried liver on top of the drumstick to get them excited about it! LOL I keep telling them they're carnivores, but ........ LOL I am LOVING hearing them crunch through those bones though! Great for their teeth and health. 

On to other types of bones eventually.


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## maryam187

Marj, are you 100% sure it's OK for dogs to eat poultry bones??????? I've only heard very bad things about them being too soft and a definite :nono: for dogs whether raw or cooked. I'd be too scared to try it out. Something only needs to happen once and :faint: or worst case :boom:


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## Beamer

Beamer loves his Chicken necks! Also, they really FIRM up the poop bigtime.. 
Thats why I thought his poop was peanuts.. ?!?!? lol

Ryan


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## DanielBMe

maryam187 said:


> Marj, are you 100% sure it's OK for dogs to eat poultry bones??????? I've only heard very bad things about them being too soft and a definite :nono: for dogs whether raw or cooked. I'd be too scared to try it out. Something only needs to happen once and :faint: or worst case :boom:


Actually the fact that chicken necks are soft is what makes them good to eat. They are highly digestible. It's the cooked bones or much larger type bones that are more difficult to digest. Keep in mind I think chicken necks are more easily digested than drumsticks which seem a bit thicker. However the darker chicken meat is a bit more nutritious than white meat.

You should definitely try beef necks. They'll chew on them for hours. They won't eat the whole bone though.


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## maryam187

Aha, thanks Daniel, might look into that. I was more worried about the chicken DRUMSTICKS that Marj talked about.


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## JanB

marjrc said:


> Update on the RMB's here. I've been giving the pooches raw chicken drumsticks lately and though Ricky thought it was some alien creature and wouldn't go near it at first, he now loves them as much as Sammy does. Believe it or not, I have had to sprinkle some crushed dried liver on top of the drumstick to get them excited about it! LOL I keep telling them they're carnivores, but ........ LOL I am LOVING hearing them crunch through those bones though! Great for their teeth and health.
> 
> On to other types of bones eventually.


marj, I tried a turkey neck with Tessa and she looked at it, then at me, back at it, and had a look on her face as if I was trying to poison her. lol!! I thought dogs would just naturally love them. Good to know you had the same reaction. So I need to smear a fave treat on the bone, eh? What we won't do for our dogs


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## Beamer

When I first started to give Beamer the beek neck bones he would not chew on them for long. I had to smeam a bit of bbq sauce on it to get him really going.. lol.. The bbq sauce is now no longer required.. he loves his bones.. Pork is his fav.

Ryan


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## DanielBMe

For Havs I think the Turkey necks are a bit too big. I was looking at them last weekend at the butchers. They were huge! I then talked to someone I know who has a large dog and is fed raw. He said the turkey necks were quite a task even for his dogs.


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## JanB

DanielBMe said:


> For Havs I think the Turkey necks are a bit too big. I was looking at them last weekend at the butchers. They were huge! I then talked to someone I know who has a large dog and is fed raw. He said the turkey necks were quite a task even for his dogs.


They are huge. I chopped them into smaller pieces when I tried them.


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## ama0722

Dasher had his first raw bone this weekend. I found a great butcher. He actually is known more for his dog recipes. He works with two vets and they write recipes for him with all different types of meats. He flash freezes it and sells it. While I was in there, 3 people were in there shopping for their dogs. While, I can't commit to doing raw, I do try to give my pups raw bones on occasion since they are so good for their teeth. To be honest, it still kind of grosses me out but they enjoy them so much, I have to give in.

Dasher was a bit unsure at first.

















Belle on the other hand no one can come close to. It is really funny to watch her be so crazy with these. I think she would love raw to be honest. She just loves food. But this makes me think she is a wolf. She quickly tried to bully Dash out of his bone too!









Dora is a bit more easy going about them but she is a fan too!


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## JanB

Amanda, I have a couple of those in my freezer but haven't tried them yet. Maybe they will be a bigger hit than the turkey neck.

I thought raw would gross me out too but with the medallions from NV it's not so bad.


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## DanielBMe

Amanda,

I noticed that those were marrow bones. Be very careful. Those are extremely hard bones and are the ones most likely to cause broken teeth. If your guys are strong chewers I highly recommend beef necks instead.


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## Me&2Girls

I'm surprised beef marrow bones can cause broken teeth. I've never had any problems and know of many who give to teething puppies.


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## ama0722

Belle has had them for about 4 years and never broken a tooth. I don't think mine try to eat them eat them. I think they just try to get everything off them. My vet thought they were great for the teeth. I will make sure to watch Dasher with them in the future until he realizes their purpose. 

Amanda


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## Me&2Girls

But Amanda, we know that Belle is really a white lion - underneath that silky coat lies the heart of the "Queen" of beasts. LOL


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## ama0722

She does make me realize she is a wolf in sheeps clothing when you give her one of those things. If Dora or Dasher come within 10 feet of her, she sounds like she will eat them! I know I should probably correct her but it is so cute. Even Dora backs down!


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## marjrc

Maryam, I appreciate your concern and maybe drumsticks ARE a little too much for my guys. I dunno! They enjoy them and I watch them every time. Ricky is a slow eater and doesn't gulp things down. He throughly chews everything. Sammy is the hound here and I do have to watch him when he nears the end as he sometimes will swallow the 1- 2" inch bit that's left. I think he is like a snake, in that he could swallow a whole rat and let it sit in his tummy, digesting it all day long. LOL :biggrin1:

I tried chicken necks, but only once, and it wasn't a hit at all. Again, with Sammy's tendency to gulp things down, he swallowed that thing whole - about 2.5 " worth! :jaw: I got it out and he tried again so I threw it out. If it was a larger neck, though, like the turkey neck, then maybe that would be safer for Sammy?! He'd have no choice but to chew it.

The bone in raw chicken is soft and they crunch it easily, into a pulp almost. 

Amanda, I love the pics! Isn't funny when they just look at the thing like it was an alien? lol I used to give those types of bones, but stopped because I was afraid of broken teeth. If they only chew the marrow and the meat around the bone, then I wouldn't stop giving it to them. It's good for them.

Good points from everyone, so I think I will get some chicken necks and try those again.


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## Me&2Girls

Amanda, I'm all for everyone being able to "protect" something they adore. You know your dogs well and would correct something that was a problem. In my house, everyone is allowed one toy/treat that "no one touches except mom". As long as I can remove without incident then that works for me. Everything else must be shared including food bowls if someone's "done" but has leftovers.


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## ama0722

It is funny cause Belle would let Dasher come up eat her kibble, she will be the first one to give up a toy- it is better to attack the dog with the toy, etc. I do leave a bowl of dry dog food out all the time since Belle is so little but her meaty bones are different! She has received corrections from DH and I was proud he stood up to her


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## DanielBMe

For the chicken necks Brando would just try to gulp them down. I had to teach him to chew them. I would break the chicken neck in two, then feed him one by hand holding it while he tried to chew it. After a couple of times he figured out it was much more enjoyable to chew them.

I was told by a staff member in a pet store where I go (he's the person who gave me tons of info on feeding raw) that it's best to stay away from weight bearing bones such as marrow bones etc for my smaller dogs. The big dogs have much stronger teeth. Also for puppies it really isn't that bad if they lose a tooth since their teeth will eventually fall out anyhow and grow new ones.

I guess common sense dictates that you watch your dog and see how hard (s)he is chewing the bone and go from there.


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## marjrc

:whoo: Turkey neck was a hit here last week so am giving the boys another one tonight! Took Sammy a while, but suprisingly Ricky was the one to finish his first. I think I'll cut it lengthwise though, just to be sure that Sammy-the-Hoover doesn't hurt himself by gulping the thing. lol


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## DanielBMe

Oddly enought I just gave my guys turkey necks this evening. I cut them in half though otherwise it would have been too much food for them for the day. They already had about 5 ounces of food. I figure cut in half the necks were about 3-4 ounces. Bogart finished his half in about 10min flat. Brando about 15min.


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## DanielBMe

I also bought beef soup bones on the weekend. Then I did some reading and every single source said to stay away from soup bones. ONe of the best ways to break teeth. So looks like I'm making soup!


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## marjrc

Yep, I'd read that too so stopped giving the soup bones last fall. 

Well, wont' be giving Ricky any RMB's for a bit now.  I definitely have to stay away from the raw until his liver issues are resolved. After many, many hours of research and asking a ton of questions to a couple of groups, I realized that it isn't what he needs right now. Saw the specialist today who confirmed my thoughts and so I'll be giving homemade with the kibble that they still love and get once in a while. Sammy will still get some raw, but we'll have to see about the RMB's. Kind of hard giving them to one, and not the other!


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## littlebuddy

i know everyone is going to gasp when i say this but i give my dog purina rawhides in chicken flavor. he is eating a very well balanced diet, he doesn't eat the rawhide, he just licks the chicken base, it something that he likes and only get one a day. i guess it would like me eating a small piece of cake every now and then! it's not good for you but sometimes, it's okay.


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## DanielBMe

marjrc said:


> Yep, I'd read that too so stopped giving the soup bones last fall.
> 
> Well, wont' be giving Ricky any RMB's for a bit now.  I definitely have to stay away from the raw until his liver issues are resolved. After many, many hours of research and asking a ton of questions to a couple of groups, I realized that it isn't what he needs right now. Saw the specialist today who confirmed my thoughts and so I'll be giving homemade with the kibble that they still love and get once in a while. Sammy will still get some raw, but we'll have to see about the RMB's. Kind of hard giving them to one, and not the other!


That's odd because everything I read seems to indicate raw is the way you should go for liver problems even in Dr Pitcairns book on natural health. Seems to me it just makes more sense that kibble would be harder to digest than raw. I'm not referring to rmb's but just raw meat.


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## JanB

A word of caution:

I decided to try the turkey necks again. I am worried about Tessa's teeth since she's totally on the NV medallions now. I bought several very small skinny ones, packaged by NV. I did some research and everything I found said it was perfectly fine for puppies. I cut a small piece for Tucker and gave the rest to Tessa.

Tessa wouldn't have anything to do with it. She sniffs it, licks it, then backs slowly away as if it's poison.

Tucker however went after it as if he was starving. He chomped happily away and looked like he was in puppy Nirvana. He wouldn't even sit down, he was standing with the neck hanging out of his mouth as he chewed away. About 10 minutes later he began running around his ex-pen in a panic making the most horrific screaming sounds I have ever heard. My DD was in her bedroom upstairs with the hairdryer going and she came running down the stairs to see what was going on - that's how loud it was. The small piece of neck was all gone. I ran to him and picked him up. He didn't seem to be choking but he was obviously in some type of pain. I was contemplating taking him to the vet when he stopped. I was scared out of my mind that he had perforated his esophagus or something just as devastating.

The only thing I can figure out is when the piece got small enough he swallowed it whole and it hurt like hell going down. He seems to be Ok now. But I'm not - I'm still playing the what-if scenario over and over in my mind.

I think it will be along while before I try raw bones with him and then I will watch closely and take it away when it gets small enough to swallow whole.


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## DanielBMe

Jan, some dogs in the beginning get a little too excited when eating raw bones and will try to swallow them. Bogart and Brando both in the beginning swalled chicken necks whole and throw up in the middle of the night. Freaked me right out. But I spoke to the pet food store where I get all my stuff and I was told it was normal to happen in the beginning. To get them to chew the bones I was told to hold on to them while they were chewinging on them. It helped to slow them down. That worked well. My guys now chew the bones well. I can hear them crunching them right up. 

Keep in mind I would never have started with turkey necks though. THey are much larger and harder than the chicken necks. Also when I do feed turkey necks I don't give them a whole one, just half. I then also snap the bones in one or two places so it's easier for them to chew. 

I would definitely only feed your guys chicken necks as they are easier to chew and digest. As well one thing you can do is put a drop of apple cider vinegar on the chicken necks. I put out 4 -6 chicken necks for my guys and put a few drops of ACV on them. They love ACV.


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## JanB

Daniel, thanks for the input. These must have been tiny turkeys because the bones were really small. I did cut a small piece off the neck - the piece I gave Tucker was no larger than my finger. I will take your advice and try chicken necks and hold it while he's chewing so he doesn't take that last little bit and swallow it whole. But I'm so traumatized I may wait a couple weeks.

I could have taken the throwing up over the screams of pain. That was horrible.

I'm confused. Is the ACV used to entice them to eat the necks? You think that would make it more appetizing to Tessa? I would think vinegar would be a deterrent, lol! I was thinking of smearing some of the NV medallions on the neck and see if that would get her to eat it.

.....(I swear sometimes I read what I just wrote and it seems surreal...NEVER did I see myself having these kinds of concerns and conversations about my dogs :biggrin1:....


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## DanielBMe

Actually dogs love the taste of apple cider vinegar. Just as long as you don't drench the necks in them. If you are feeding say two chicken necks per one dog, I would put maybe one maybe two drops and rub it over the necks.


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## Me&2Girls

Wow Jan - scary story. Daniel - thanks for the tip about holding the chicken necks when they learn to eat raw. Not sure I ever will, but if I do - I now know how to "teach" them to slow down.

I've used raw apple cider vinegar in food and water in an effort to help the tear stains on my Maltese. The ACV in food didn't bother him to much but every one preferred the untreated water and I started with 1 tsp in about 1/2 gallon of water. I'll have to try again since the staining is getting thick again.


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## DanielBMe

I have a white persian cat. Not my choice, left over from the ex gf. She got the dining table and I got the cat ;-)

Anyhow, she has sealed tearducts, so her eyes gunk up like crazy as well as stain. I have to wipe them 3 times a day. I was told to put ACV in her drinking water. She would simply not touch the water.


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## JanB

Daniel, so they like the SCV on their bones but not in the water? Or is that just the difference between cats and dogs? 

I did e-mail with the breeder today and she uses the large soup bones or round roast bones for recreational chewing. Since my concern isn't nutrition from the raw bones, I just want to keep their teeth clean, I will try them next. She also suggested chicken wings but it seems I read (maybe here?) they are more likely to splinter?

So Tessa turns up her nose at my raw bones but this morning she carried a dead baby bird in the house that had obviously recently fallen from the nest so it was nice and fresh and gooey with the head separated from the body and hanging on by a string of flesh. She tried to bury it in my sofa (luckily leather so it could be cleaned). A discriminating palate, huh? YUCK!


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## DanielBMe

I've been warned about using soup bones. Apparently a good way to break teeth. I've read that in a few places.


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## JanB

DanielBMe said:


> I've been warned about using soup bones. Apparently a good way to break teeth. I've read that in a few places.


ACH!!! What to do??? :frusty::frusty:


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## DanielBMe

beef necks. They are softer bones.


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## marjrc

Jan, that is one scary incident! I'd be pretty freaked out too, if one of my boys screamed like that. Glad whatever it was, was temporary. Sammy would easily do something like that. He's a regular Hoover!

I agree that those round, soup bones are very dangerous for the teeth. They just have no give in them at all and often cause teeth to break or be chipped. ... so I've heard.

I haven't given Ricky any RMB's in a few weeks, because I'm concerned about his liver not being able to fight any extra bacteria. You should see his teeth though, after eating RMB's just a few times. Already a nice improvement! I'm definitely getting back to them once his liver issue is over. (praying that it does end one day!)


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## Julie

After reading this whole thread,I'm scared to try any!:bolt:

I'd like to be able to give my boys something for teeth cleaning-----but--------


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## Redorr

It isn't surprising they wouldn't drink the apple cider vinegar in the water...isn't that what you are supposed to spritz over a dog's head to get them to quit barking? Don't they hate vinegar?


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## baca008

I just got Avery some marrow bones. She just loves them. She's not much of a biter but more of a licker. But I will keep my eye on her.


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## DanielBMe

Redorr said:


> It isn't surprising they wouldn't drink the apple cider vinegar in the water...isn't that what you are supposed to spritz over a dog's head to get them to quit barking? Don't they hate vinegar?


Not apple cider vinegar. My guys like it. Never heard of sprinkiing it on their heads though.


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## JanB

OK, I had a long talk with the owner of the pet food store where I buy the dog's NV medallions. According to him if a dog is totally on a raw diet, even one that doesn't involve RMBs, dental decay is not an issue.

Apparently kibble, even an excellent kibble, will stick to the teeth like cookies and that is why kibble eaters need to be extra careful about teeth cleaning.

Raw diet eaters still want/need to chew for recreation. He's had his own dogs on the NV raw and does not feed the raw bones. He suggested these:

http://www.freerangedogchews.com/catalog/product.asp?pid=45

I bought a couple of the small ones and will try them out soon and let you know how it goes. I know both of mine like the Moo brand bully sticks so hopefully they will like these too.

Hopefully with these type of chews along with the Petzlife gel, dental decay will not be an issue.


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## JanB

Oh, forgot....

Here are the chews my breeder recommends -these have both her vet's and pet dentist (who knew there was such a thing?) approval:

http://www.revivalanimal.com/store/p/2596-CET-Chews.aspx


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## marjrc

JanB said:


> OK, I had a long talk with the owner of the pet food store where I buy the dog's NV medallions. According to him if a dog is totally on a raw diet, even one that doesn't involve RMBs, dental decay is not an issue.
> 
> Apparently kibble, even an excellent kibble, will stick to the teeth like cookies and that is why kibble eaters need to be extra careful about teeth cleaning.
> 
> Raw diet eaters still want/need to chew for recreation. He's had his own dogs on the NV raw and does not feed the raw bones. He suggested these:
> 
> http://www.freerangedogchews.com/catalog/product.asp?pid=45
> 
> I bought a couple of the small ones and will try them out soon and let you know how it goes. I know both of mine like the Moo brand bully sticks so hopefully they will like these too.
> 
> Hopefully with these type of chews along with the Petzlife gel, dental decay will not be an issue.


Jan, as you know, I also work in a health food for pets store and I totally agree with what your store owner said. That is what I've learned from my many hours of research on raw feeding.

I'm not familiar with the products you bought, but if they help... great!


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## JanB

Marj, thanks for the input! It's good to have that info backed up! Now I don't need to worry so much.

I gave them the Moo knuckle bones last night. First Tessa takes hers and buries it in the cushions, then steals Tucker's to chew ound: Poor little guy, I had to intervene and give him his bone back 

They went after the marrow first, and they are still chewing those bones. Obviously a big hit here! I like the fact that they aren't greasy or messy so they can chew them anywhere.


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## DanielBMe

The odour free moo stickts are great. It's much harder to get them here now though.


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## JanB

DanielBMe said:


> The odour free moo stickts are great. It's much harder to get them here now though.


I've found these locally and they really are odor free and the dogs love them:

http://www.freerangedogchews.com/catalog/product.asp?pid=106


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## DanielBMe

JanB said:


> I've found these locally and they really are odor free and the dogs love them:
> 
> http://www.freerangedogchews.com/catalog/product.asp?pid=106


It's almost impossible to get those here in Canada. I tried ordering them from the US but nobody seems to be able to ship to Canada.


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## Beamer

I think dogs get plaque and decay with kibbles because they are high in carbohydrate. This is what causes the issues. Raw food does not have much if any carbs so teeth cleaning is not really nessasary. Throw in some RMB, and you have perfect teeth! 
Ofcourse if you give lots of cookie type treats high in carbs you will want to clean the teeth or give RMB's.


Ryan


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## JASHavanese

DanielBMe said:


> Actually dogs love the taste of apple cider vinegar. Just as long as you don't drench the necks in them. If you are feeding say two chicken necks per one dog, I would put maybe one maybe two drops and rub it over the necks.


Mine hate it. I tried putting a couple of drops of ACV in their water and they refused to drink it until they got so thirsty they couldn't stand it and drank just a little water. I tried it several times all with the same result.


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## Redorr

Daniel - I have a box of the Moo odor free sticks which I bought in bulk. They are 6" triple braids. Lola spends about an hour a day chomping on them and they last two weeks. I would gladly send some of them north of the border to you (I think I have 50!) if you can figure out the customs and food import issues. I don't want to send them and have them confiscated or have you pay 3x duty. If you are interested, and maybe some of the others in ONT, PM me and we can investigate.


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