# Roaming issue



## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

Ever since we visited Oreo as a pup at the breeders, he's naturally a roamer. He will put his head down and sniff and sniff and sniff ignoring everything around him.

Fast forward to a little over 1 year, he's still a roamer and will just go sniff everywhere. When I call him he won't even look up at me at the park. He's fine at home. He'll alertly look at me and half the time he'll come when called.

Is there anyway for me to curb his sniffing issue to help with recall training?

One more thing. Oreo still sniff and marks even though he is neutered. Is that normal?


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

That souund exactly like Jack. He is the one I have to keep track of.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

narci said:


> Ever since we visited Oreo as a pup at the breeders, he's naturally a roamer. He will put his head down and sniff and sniff and sniff ignoring everything around him.
> 
> Fast forward to a little over 1 year, he's still a roamer and will just go sniff everywhere. When I call him he won't even look up at me at the park. He's fine at home. He'll alertly look at me and half the time he'll come when called.
> 
> ...


I'm not really clear. Is he 100% reliable at home, or only 50%. If he's not reliable at home either, you should never have him off a long line if you are practicing recalls. (and follow the steps I've written below even at home) If you AREN'T practicing recalls, and he's loose in your yard, don't call him at all... just go get him. If he IS 100% reliable in the yard (or very close) then practice fast, enthusiastic recalls off leash, just to get him excited about the "games", then use the steps below when elsewhere.

If he's ignoring you 50% of the time when you call him, he doesn't believe that it's a priority. You've probably "poisoned" your recall word by now, by teaching him to believe that it's his choice. So pick a different word (it doesn't matter what) and start over. I'd practice it at home with VERY high value treats, over and over, until he's RUNNING to you with speed and enthusiasm. Then I'd take the "show on the road", and start proofing it in other places. I'd put him on a long line in challenging circumstances so he CAN'T ignore you, and practice LOTS, but only from short distances. Make sure you make it REALLY fun, and release him to play right away again. (so coming to you doesn't mean the end of fun) As he gets more reliable, add more distance, but still on the long line. I wouldn't even THINK about trying an off-lead recall until you are at least getting 90% solid recalls, fast, with enthusiasm.

It is perfectly normal for neutered dogs to sniff and mark. Not all do, but many do.


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## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

krandall said:


> I'm not really clear. Is he 100% reliable at home, or only 50%. If he's not reliable at home either, you should never have him off a long line if you are practicing recalls. (and follow the steps I've written below even at home) If you AREN'T practicing recalls, and he's loose in your yard, don't call him at all... just go get him. If he IS 100% reliable in the yard (or very close) then practice fast, enthusiastic recalls off leash, just to get him excited about the "games", then use the steps below when elsewhere.
> 
> If he's ignoring you 50% of the time when you call him, he doesn't believe that it's a priority. You've probably "poisoned" your recall word by now, by teaching him to believe that it's his choice. So pick a different word (it doesn't matter what) and start over. I'd practice it at home with VERY high value treats, over and over, until he's RUNNING to you with speed and enthusiasm. Then I'd take the "show on the road", and start proofing it in other places. I'd put him on a long line in challenging circumstances so he CAN'T ignore you, and practice LOTS, but only from short distances. Make sure you make it REALLY fun, and release him to play right away again. (so coming to you doesn't mean the end of fun) As he gets more reliable, add more distance, but still on the long line. I wouldn't even THINK about trying an off-lead recall until you are at least getting 90% solid recalls, fast, with enthusiasm.
> 
> It is perfectly normal for neutered dogs to sniff and mark. Not all do, but many do.


Thanks Karen.

He's 75% at home so looks like i'll have to find another recall word other them 'come' and restart. I have a feeling my mother & father in law 'poisoned' the command to come because they always use it non stop and he just ignore them.

He's good with the come command if he knows I have a treat for him. I usually practice 'sit', 'stay' and them walk off and them ask him to 'come' in different lengths of time and distance. Again, that's because he knows I have a treat.

I'm still a little dismayed at the sniffing. He's always preferred sniffing grass and trees etc. then playing with other dogs. At the dog park he has a few friends he'll play with but he'll just all of the sudden stop play and go sniff and wander and mark. He's good on paved roads...nothing to sniff I guess but once on the grass, off he goes (on leash). Is there anything I can do about this?

I'll follow your method with a new command 'here' and restart the training all over again.

Thanks Karen for the insights.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

That is the reason Rosie is not allowed out of the fenced back yard. Anywhere else she is on a leash. She can run faster than me or my husband and won't stop until she runs out of breath. I am beginning to think it is a havanese thing. Never had a dog to do that before.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

No advice on the recall stuff, but just wanted to say that Brody is a sniffer too. I call him my "stop and smell the roses" dog.


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## emichel (May 3, 2012)

Yeah, Tracey, too bad it's not only roses they are smelling. :-D
-- Eileen


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

narci said:


> He's 75% at home so looks like i'll have to find another recall word other them 'come' and restart. I have a feeling my mother & father in law 'poisoned' the command to come because they always use it non stop and he just ignore them.


It's REALLY easy to do. NONE of the trainers I know use "come" as a call word. THey usually use "front" for a formal obedience recall, and "here" in more casual settings.



narci said:


> He's good with the come command if he knows I have a treat for him. I usually practice 'sit', 'stay' and them walk off and them ask him to 'come' in different lengths of time and distance. Again, that's because he knows I have a treat.


You should be practicing "sit stays" separately from recalls at this point. Rather than your formal recall, what you REALLY need right now is a reliable recall from anywhere.

So you should wait until he wanders a little away from you, THEN call, reward, and release. If he doesn't come, you have your long line to step on and keep him from wandering off. If he doesn't come on his own, use the long line to gently guide him back to you, then tell him what a wonderful dog he is, treat and release. He SHOULD be getting good, HIGH VALUE treats EVERY TIME he comes to you at this point. He is WAY far away from being expected to do it without treats. Kodi has a very reliable recall, both the formal obedience type, and in the woods. But I want to KEEP it very reliable, so I continue to practice it regularly with food rewards. I don't ALWAYS give him a treat when I call him, but I do more often than not. BUT and this is a BIG but... Kodi's recall is up over 98% in terms of reliability. Until Oreo is well over 90% in any given setting, I would NOT ask him to come EVER (unless it's an emergency of course!) unless you have a treat to reward him. Don't show it to him ahead of time... have it hidden in your pocket, because you do NOT want to "lure" him with it. But reward him EVERY time for now. Remember, this doesn't even need to be outdoor practice... you can wait until he's in another room and in a really fun voice say, "Oreo, HERE!!!" and when he comes give him treats and tons of praise.



narci said:


> I'm still a little dismayed at the sniffing. He's always preferred sniffing grass and trees etc. then playing with other dogs. At the dog park he has a few friends he'll play with but he'll just all of the sudden stop play and go sniff and wander and mark. He's good on paved roads...nothing to sniff I guess but once on the grass, off he goes (on leash). Is there anything I can do about this?


Another thing to consider is that excessive sniffing the ground is often a displacement behavior when a dog is uncomfortable. Are you sure he's happy in the dog park? It's possible that he's just interested in the smells, but it's also possible that he's showing his discomfort around so many other dogs. And saying, "Stay away, can't you see I'm busy and not interested in playing with you!"


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

narci said:


> Ever since we visited Oreo as a pup at the breeders, he's naturally a roamer. He will put his head down and sniff and sniff and sniff ignoring everything around him.
> 
> Fast forward to a little over 1 year, he's still a roamer and will just go sniff everywhere. When I call him he won't even look up at me at the park. He's fine at home. He'll alertly look at me and half the time he'll come when called.
> 
> ...


hi Rocky. Maybe you;ve got a scent hound. LOL. Some dogs even toys are more nasal than others. Dogs like this are typically harder to get trained in recalls. My friend just finished a detailed course on how to get to the best possible recall. Not for the faint of heart but worth the read. http://pawsitivedawgs.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/rocksolidreliablerecallcourse/


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## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

Karen - Thanks for the tips. I will definitely try to train him to recall him while he wanders in stead of sit stay recall.

Oreo LOVES the park. When we get home, he's herding me to the door to take him out tot he park hahaha. If I walk towards the door, he's 5 steps ahead of me looking at me thinking 'are we going to the park now?'.

Oreo would rather much prefer chasing games with other dogs then just general rough housing. He likes other dogs to chase him and he will chase them back.

Oreo has ALWAYS been a sniffer. When we went to look for a Hav, the breeder had about 8-9 puppies. When she let them all out, all but 2 came running to our feet. Oreo was one of the two that just followed his nose around yard.

Dave - I will definitely read the link when I get home. Work blocks it foe some reason


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

narci said:


> Karen - Thanks for the tips. I will definitely try to train him to recall him while he wanders in stead of sit stay recall.
> 
> Oreo LOVES the park. When we get home, he's herding me to the door to take him out tot he park hahaha. If I walk towards the door, he's 5 steps ahead of me looking at me thinking 'are we going to the park now?'.
> 
> ...


OK, just checking. As Dave and Carol said, some dogs sniff just because they enjoy sniffing. As long as you are sure that it is not a stress reaction, then all is good!

As far as the way Oreo plays... it sounds like every Hav I know. They all LOVE to run around and chase in a big group, but they aren't much for rough-and-tumble play!


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## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

Karen - thanks 

Dave - i'm looking at the website with my tablet but I find the site very confusing.

Where do I find week 1?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

narci said:


> Karen - thanks
> 
> Dave - i'm looking at the website with my tablet but I find the site very confusing.
> 
> Where do I find week 1?


ok here is the menu . http://pawsitivedawgs.wordpress.com/ scroll down to the start . It's seven segments go to page three to find the start. I'll give Anne hell for confusing you. lol


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## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

davetgabby said:


> ok here is the menu . http://pawsitivedawgs.wordpress.com/ scroll down to the start . It's seven segments go to page three to find the start. I'll give Anne hell for confusing you. lol


Awesome...thanks Dave.

It be nice to have a side menu to quickly find things.

I read a few pages so far. Good stuff :thumb:


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Rollie can get super, hyper focused like that. We tried clapping to get his attention, but that doesn't work. We bought "silent" whistles, thinking it would break his focus, but the whistles were defective. We just bought a hand-held thing that makes a tone in a good get-your-dog's-attention wavelength, but haven't opened it yet. We just got it. 

He tends to get into the super focus mode when he's encountered a really awesome scent outside or when the neighbors are out and he feels the need to watch their every move. If you go up to him and physically bring his attention back, he's all yours, but it's like he really doesn't hear you when he gets like that. The rest of the time, he's 90% set on "come" at home. He loves to play the "come" or "here boy" game. Now that he's really improved at home, we have to start training elsewhere. 

Oh, and he's neutered and he marks. He'll mark one of his bushes, smell it, then mark again just to be sure! If another dog is with us and that dog marks, he'll mark on top of it. Every now and then he tries to get in there before the other dog is done and we've had to rescue him from being marked on. Silly boy.


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Dave, from the site you suggested in the article called "Prepare for the Worst." I cracked up reading this - especially "roll in stinky things" (why do the LOVE that?):

Assume that your dog will:

pee in the wrong place
bark at the wrong time
chew the wrong thing
pull you along on walks
yowl when confined at night
whine & bark when separated from you
dig in the garden
growl at and maybe scuffle with strange dogs
jump up on the children
chase the neighbour's cat
hop up on furniture
guard food, treats and chews
steal your freshly made sandwich (that you were reeeeeally looking forward to!)
roll in stinky things
hump strange dogs
basically be a dog

(quoted from: http://pawsitivedawgs.wordpress.com/2010/12/27/preparefortheworst/)


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

She mentions teaching your dog that strange sounds, neighbors outside, etc., aren't cause for alarm. How do you do that?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeah Jess, no real evidence of why, take your choice http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-roll-in-garbage-manure-or-other-smelly-stuff And keep in mind any interrupter doesn't have to be aversive. It's purpose is to get the dog's attention or to interrupt an unwanted behaviour so one can re-direct and reinforce an alternative behaviour. To get a dog used to these sort of things is basic socialization, ie , slowly introducining them in a careful way.


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## gertchie (Jan 28, 2012)

This is a great thread! We just got back from vacation and I am just catching up. Ozzie is a sniffer and a marker too, a walk in the park could take forever if I let him sniff everything he wanted to! I read a book that said dogs "read" scents like we read bulletin boards so I'm ok with him letting all the other dogs know he was there  We were just at Crater Lake and his little sniffer was in overdrive and left his mark at many a viewpoint! Thanks Karen for the training tips and Dave for the links, these are things we are working on right now...Ozzie does great with recall about 75% of the time but sometimes he is in his own little happy smelly world


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## miller123 (Aug 13, 2011)

narci said:


> Oreo has ALWAYS been a sniffer. When we went to look for a Hav, the breeder had about 8-9 puppies. When she let them all out, all but 2 came running to our feet. Oreo was one of the two that just followed his nose around yard.


Miller must have been the other one... we are having the same problem.


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

davetgabby said:


> yeah Jess, no real evidence of why, take your choice http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-roll-in-garbage-manure-or-other-smelly-stuff And keep in mind any interrupter doesn't have to be aversive. It's purpose is to get the dog's attention or to interrupt an unwanted behaviour so one can re-direct and reinforce an alternative behaviour. To get a dog used to these sort of things is basic socialization, ie , slowly introducining them in a careful way.


Our sound thing isn't aversive - it is just a novel sound, and being novel, should catch his attention.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

That's good Jess.


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## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

Ok..so I went back to square one in training.

First thing...re-training to look at me when I call his name.

He's doing great in the house.

Now to go outside on the front lawn to add some outside distractions.

Quick question.

If I call his name and he's still not looking at me...what do I do? I know I should not call his name again because that will just reinforce his mentality that he can ignore me.


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