# Crate Training questions and more



## lisaj1354 (Dec 8, 2007)

Hi all!

I have a friend who recently got a Hav (on Saturday) and asked me to ask this question for her:

She's been reading as much as she can about crate training, but she's stumped.

Her breeder told her that her dog was crate trained. As such, she went out and bought a crate (plastic travel crate) with a pad.

Night one, she put the pup (9 months old) in the crate and it went nuts. Since she and her hubby needed to get to sleep, they ended up taking the dog out of the crate, putting him on the bed, and the dog promptly passed out and slept the whole night. No muss, no fuss.

Next day, she put the pup in the crate in the middle of the day for all of 10 minutes. The crate had treats and toys in it. Puppy went nuts for all 10 minutes. She waited until the pup was quiet and let him out.

She also left treats in the crate and she's noticed the pup go into the crate, take a treat and go back into the LR.

Night 2, she just let the dog sleep on the bed since the crate was such a disaster the night before.

Day 2 she put the pup into the crate for 40 minutes. For the first 10 minutes the dog was flipping out (which was when I got her call). Then it was quiet for about 10 minutes. Then for the next 20 minutes the dog barked and howled.

She waited until he was quiet, went in gave him a treat (which he refused!!!) and she let him out. 

He pooped a tiny bit on the crate - which she admits might be a timing issue on her part - and then he wouldn't come near her at all.

So - long story short, she's a pretty capable lady, but this is upsetting her. She wants her dog to feel safe and happy. The breeder said that the dog was crate trained and house broken. The pup peed once when they got into her house (fear, marking, excitement whatever), and twice when she missed his signs. But otherwise, he's been terrific.

So here are her questions:

1. After buying a plastic travel crate, the breeder told her today that he used wire crates. Does this make a difference to the dog?

2. Is allowing the dog to sleep in the bed a bad thing? 

3. How much of the puppy hysteria is because he's new to his surroundings? She is now thinkng the breeder thinks that keeping a puppy in crate is being crate trained as opposed to actually training the dog to be in a crate and be happy.

4. And lastly - Making the assumption that the puppy really IS crate trained and is just unsure of his current situation (it IS all new to him), how can she keep him feeling safe while making sure that she keeps to the rules and can leave the house for a few hours (her call to me was because she has two drs appts on Thurs and can't change either of them and is afraid to leave her little guy all by his lonesome and is in a panic about it all).

I know its a very long post, and has a lot of questions, but I'd like to be able to help her out - after all, she named me his godmother (YAY!!!) and I want him to be a wonderfully happy dog.

I knew I didn't have the answers but I also knew you all would - so here I am...

Thanks in advance for all your responses!!!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

1. Yes it does. Some dogs don't like the plastic crates as they can't see out of them very well. They are good for sleeping but not so much for hanging out in them during the day.

2. It's not bad, if that's what she wants. If your friend doesn't care about having the dog on the bed, then just let him be on the bed. If it's bothering her and she wants to put him in the crate, then she needs to train him to do so.

3. The hysteria is most likely because he's never been left alone in an enclosed space in his life. Puppies are almost always kept with their siblings and will freak out if they can't be right next to you (the new pack), even if they were trained to stay in an expen all day, they usually had a brother or sister or another dog with them. Hitchcock, my second dog came from a wonderful breeder who trains her puppies to the crate for night time and keeps them in an expen during the day but he still freaked out about being left in an expen when at my house because he was in there all alone. It took some days for him to be used to being in it without getting upset.

4. She needs to do this in small time limits. You say that she put him in there for 40 minutes and he freaked out for 10 and was quiet for 10. Why didn't she take him out after the 10 minutes? 40 minutes was obviously too long for the puppy to take all at once. You start out on SHORT time periods - 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, so on and so forth. Making sure that she is ALWAYS within sight (a wire crate or an expen might be best here), she should ignore him but be near. Only when he's quiet, she should approach and praise him (he might not want a treat - verbal praise works too!) but only let him out after praising him and waiting some time (like 20 seconds or so) because if you praise as you let him out he'll think getting let out is the best thing. After he's fine with being in there for 20 minutes, she should start to leave for very short periods of time (only leave his eye sight not the house) and come back in - the whole time ignore the puppy. Have her do this multiple times a day. He'll start to realize that she comes back every time. After he's fine with that, then start to leave the house for small periods of time, working her way up to an hour or two. Also, if the puppy is eliminating in the crate, he might have too much space in there. He shouldn't be able to have any more space than to sleep. If she wants to leave him alone for longer periods of time, I highly suggest her to get a large wire crate so she can put a pee pad in it or an expen so the puppy will have some space to play and eliminate when needed.

Good luck! I hope this was a little bit helpful!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

It sounds like she is going to need to do some crate training, despite what she was told.

Sleeping on the bed before potty-training is asking for trouble, in my opinion. Once the puppy has an accident, then what will she do? 

I know I'm not answering all your questions, but this is what comes to mind immediately after reading.


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## lisaj1354 (Dec 8, 2007)

Lina - thanks for your quick response.

I'm seeing a trip to Petsmart in her future to exchange that crate. 

Also - should she put the crate (during training) where he can see her? She now has it in a second bedroom, and the puppy can't see her. Or should she go into the bedroom with the dog and hang out in there with him?

He has been an only dog since he was purchased from the breeder at 12 weeks. She got him through a friend from work who knew someone who knew someone (I should be so lucky!) who had sent him back to the breeder. A job loss by the original owner was the cause of the return. So from 12 weeks till last week he was an only puppy.


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## lisaj1354 (Dec 8, 2007)

> Sleeping on the bed before potty-training is asking for trouble, in my opinion. Once the puppy has an accident, then what will she do?


He's housebroken. She believes the little acccident in the crate was her fault timing-wise and not his.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

So, if the puppy is housebroken, what is the purpose of the crating? (Not being antagonistic; just asking.)


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

I would def say to exchange the plastic crate for a wire one. I have a few dogs that would flip in the plastic one, but do fine in the wire one.
And YES the crate should be where ever she is!!!!! Imagine what this poor dog is going thru, it has left the only house it's known since it was a baby, gone back to the breeder, and is now in another new house.....then gets put in a crate it doesnt like, in a room all by it's self!!! Poor guy. Thats alot of changes. Tell her to keep the crate where she is, and reward the puppy when he quiets down in the crate. The crate should also be in her room at night-
Good luck!


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## lisaj1354 (Dec 8, 2007)

> So, if the puppy is housebroken, what is the purpose of the crating? (Not being antagonistic; just asking.)


There are a number of reasons.

He's new to her home and she isn't sure that he won't destroy something or bark like crazy. She lives in an apartment (we live in the same building)when she's gone.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I'm not sure crating will deter barking if he is prone to barking, but for containment purposes, she might want to consider an exercise pen (also called an ex-pen or x-pen) for a little extra space, yet still limited.


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## baxterboy (Mar 17, 2009)

Yikes, do we have the same breeder? LOL---we went through the same thing.... Breeder said 7 month old Baxter was crate trained and potty trained. Well, first night he had diarreah all over himself in the crate---went nuts. I tried keeping the crate in our bedroom, lying next to the crate, treats in the crate.... He just hated the darn thing. We tried him in a dog bed one night right next to our bed, and wouldn't you know he slept all night! So for me, that was the end of crate training---he just seemed to be so traumatized by the darn thing, and everyone I knew who had crate trained dogs seemed bewildered by his behavior.

For us, not having a crate has worked out fine. I really like having him in his dog bed in our room. He just seems comfy and happy  Just also wondering why she's so set on the crate?


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## baxterboy (Mar 17, 2009)

lisaj1354 said:


> There are a number of reasons.
> 
> He's new to her home and she isn't sure that he won't destroy something or bark like crazy. She lives in an apartment (we live in the same building)when she's gone.


Oops, sorry---you answered my question about why she's set on crating...
I understand now


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Yup, a wire crate would likely help and as Lina said, your friend will have to go at the training slowly, but consistently. Crate training is mostly used to help with the potty training of a dog/pup and to provide it with a safe place for when he's left alone.

Here are a few sites that might help ------------

http://www.ottawahumane.ca/crate.html

http://www.barkbytes.com/training/crate.htm

http://www.cratetraining.net/


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