# ARRGHH!!! Molly poops in her crate. . .



## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

. . .*EVERYTIME* I go out!!! :frusty::frusty::frusty:

I can't stand it! Today when I came home from my son's karate class there was poo all over her and the crate! I had to give her my first emergency bath. Boy did she stink!

I don't understand it. I think it's separation anxiety or something. This morning I left her for an hour also, and she pooped again. She must have been barking the entire time too b/c she was panting like crazy when I got home.

I always take her out before I leave, but of course she doesn't go.

Any ideas????


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

X-Pen? At least if she poops while you're gone, she won't be contained in it?? Just a suggestion. Good luck...that is the grossest thing to come home to...I've been there before, not with Cricket, but with my Standard Poodle. Ugh. You just brought back some BAD memories...lol..:biggrin1:


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

Bad Molly!


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## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

I'd also try the ex-pen, or containing the sweetie in the kitchen or laundry room that has a clear "YOU HAVE TO DO IT HERE!" area.

And then gradually help her with the separation anxiety...there's lots of good literature on exercises you can do to help her along...

I'd look at it the same way as I would with a small baby or child...they need reminding of the fact that they're secure and loved. Poor baby...and poor YOU for having to clean up the mess!


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks, Kim! X-Pen inside or out? I guess with a wee wee pad in it? 

The only problem with that is that I don't really have any place to keep it (assuming you mean inside). I really need to just stop the darn habit!


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## havaluv (Oct 15, 2007)

Oh gosh...Ollie used to poop in his ex-pen and trample all through it in a panic when I left him alone. He is so much better now. I do give him yummy duck breast jerky before I go out and that seems to keep him from going into a panic. 

Yes, I agree with Kim. Get an ex-pen and put the crate (door open) in the expen. Also put a wee pad and hang a water bottle. It's a great set up and Ollie still uses his like this. He doesn't panic anymore. I feed him in the expen and always put lots of toys in there with the door open when I'm around so he has positive associations with the ex-pen. Often when he gets a treat, he'll go into his ex-pen and inside his crate of his own accord so I guess he does feel like it's HIS place. 

Hang in there. It WILL get better. I know others will have more ideas for you too. :hug:


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

I agree with Kim on the x-pen. Also do not make a big deal of your coming and going, just give her a cookie and say I'll be back.


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

Oh--I didn't see everyone else's posts. 

Now that I think about it, I could probably put an x-pen in my little office off of the kitchen. I really have to clean it out though--it's my junk room. Ugh, I was really hoping to avoid that!

My other thought was to put a smaller crate in that office with her food and water in it--to maybe deter her from pooping where she eats--for when I go out, and keep her bedtime crate in my room.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Try an x-pen and maybe a kong or some toy to keep her busy. She maybe be nervous and having separation issues.


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

Sally, I actually bought her a kong today thinking it would help, but NOOOOOOO!!!


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## havaluv (Oct 15, 2007)

Did you put any treats in the kong? I stuffed mine with kibble, then put some canned food on top of that, then freeze the whole thing. He has to work at it a bit to get the food out, so the distraction seems to help.


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

I did put treats in there--the kong treats. She got one out, but she's literally still working on the other one!

BTW--how big are these ex-pens?


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## havaluv (Oct 15, 2007)

Mine is about 4x4 I think. It has 8 two foot sides that are hinged. You can make them smaller if you want and you can shape them in any way you like...long and narrow, big and square, trapazoid, etc. You can have it smaller in the beginning and gradually give more room too. I like that Oliver has a bit more room that he does in the crate, but I think when I'm gone he spends most of the time in the crate anyway. He does use the wee pad when he needs to as well, which is an advantage over just crating him.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Kubrick doesn't like kongs. He prefers to chase balls, so I fill this ball with K9 Jerky before I leave the house:

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?f...24&ParentCat=30&CFID=1169660&CFTOKEN=24556832

It will take him at least 10 minutes to get all the treats out (sometimes longer) so by the time he realizes I've gone he's not as anxious and just goes to sleep until I get back. I do think a smaller closed in area will help you out a lot.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

lulubella said:


> BTW--how big are these ex-pens?


The ex-pen come vary in height, 24" to 48". They have 8 panels, 24 " wide, one panel has a door. If Molly is a jumper you might want a 36" ex-pen. I bought mine on eBay as they are much cheaper ($40 with shipping for 24"). PetsMart has 24" for $75. The ex-pen set up works really well. I hope it helps you with Molly. Good luck!


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

I agree with the xpen. That way you can put a pee pad in one corner and she will have a lot more room to move around. Would she be a total disaster if she had the whole kitchen gated off or something like that?
Carole
xxoox


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

mellowbo said:


> I agree with the xpen. That way you can put a pee pad in one corner and she will have a lot more room to move around. Would she be a total disaster if she had the whole kitchen gated off or something like that?
> Carole
> xxoox


The only problem with gating off the kitchen is that I have 3 entrances to it! I'd have to buy 3 gates--2 of them would have to be very long!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

If you do not want to invest in an expen right away, you can try a small bathroom closed off. The disadvantage is that you will have to move the water bowl in there, set up a pee pad, and remove all dangers. You could set up the expen in a bedroom. where did the breeders keep her when she was alone?


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

I would ask breeder where she kept when the breeder went out. Crate? Xpen? Crated next to other dogs? Anyone think a radio or t.v. would be soothing to Molly when Susan is gone? I actually worried about my house being too small for an xpen set up until I saw one set up at an open house my breeder held for people interested in Havanese...didn't take up much room at all and it nicely organized pee pad, sleeping crate, food area and toys. What about putting something like a blankie or toy with your scent on in it her crate? I know nursing pads and bras always helped my babies sleep some ON THEIR OWN? Ha! Best of luck you'll get some great ideas here. I would even say maybe have her in an xpen every once in awhile with you in sight so she doesn't associate it with you always being gone, but with just being in a "safe" place. I don't know...


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Susan,

You don't have to gate off the kitchen. You can put the ex-pen in the back room between the table and the family room furniture. I would recommend getting a remnant of linoleum from Home Depot or Lowes and put it under the ex-pen. Make it big enough that she can walk around. Have her wee wee pad in there and a bowl of water and food (if you want) and a bed for her to rest on. 

All of this is a function of time. She's scared and needs time to feel safe and to know you'll be back when you leave. I know it's stressful but I promise this will pass.


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

I would think that being in a small closed off room might be scarier than being in a room she is used to, like a family living space in an expen. (I don't know this for a fact...I'm just putting myself in the dogs place ) There is some good information out there about slowly getting them used to you being gone...leaving for very short periods (5 -10 minutes) then coming back. Next time increase it a bit...etc...so that Molly knows you will be back. The expen gives her a bit of room to move around in and the security of her bed, water and a place to eliminate. We have ours set up in our TV room where we spend most of our time. Izzy roams the house now, but Doc stays in the expen/crate when we are gone or too busy to watch him. They will both go in to sleep during the day as we leave the door open unless we need them confined.
I will admit, we have never had separation anxiety problems, so I can only suggest you read what others have tried. Good luck, I'm sure it's frustrating for you and for Molly.


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

So, this would all be temporary?


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

It was temporary with Izzy until she was trained.....I'm not sure with Doc! He doesn't seem to be house training as fast as Izzy did! 
I would think that in time, Molly would become more comfortable and at ease in your home. It takes time....and patience! I'm sure others that have dealt with it can help you better with that answer than I can.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Here's a pic of the ex-pen/crate set-up we had for Tori up until a few months ago. I used marine grade vinyl for the "floor".


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

Wow--that's some setup Leslie! What a lucky puppy!! I'll have to see if DH will put up with that!


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## havaluv (Oct 15, 2007)

Leslie, that's very similar to Ollie's set up. Another good option if you have carpet is to go to Home Depot or Lowes and purchase a remnant of vinyl flooring. We got a big one for under $20 and put it under the ex-pen. It really made for easy cleanup.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*How we ended up with two*

We have two havanese. I had a trainer come and work with Riki in his xpen and large crate. The idea was to leave him longer and longer without him crying. Gee. It didn't work. She said I had two options, keep working on it hoping it would work or get another dog.

So now I have two. I can leave them alone in the house for more than an hour and they are fine. They are also both fully housetrained and have the run of the house. No accidents except by Daisy, the female. She has peed on the bed after a day of grooming.

Linda


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

capote would knock over that expen in a heartbeat..and end up tangled up in it. I shudder to think! He jumps like crazy against the gate that keeps him in the kitchen, that lil wire thing wouldn't stand a chance..lol.

Can you gate off a room? Capote has free reign of the kitchen while I'm gone and is gated off from the rest of the house with one of those child gates. This way he can still see into the house but he's not just in his pen.


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

I forget that some of the dogs can escape their expens...and I suppose if they are really freaked out, it's easier to do. Another dog may be just the ticket!!


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

Kind people of the Havanese Forum. . . .I had enough trouble convincing DH to get ONE dog!! If I came home with another one we'd all be out on our butts!!!ound:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Gucci did much better on full roam than the xpen. The crate was a NIGHTMARE, I gave up on that after a few days of her throwing herself against the sides and hurting herself (from separation anxiety) 

I do agree with the others, the xpen may work better, but personally, it only gave her more room to go beserk in. Not only would she poop, she's throw her water and food everywhere. lol Sorry to be the negative here, but it wasnt' a cakewalk.

Although, amazingly...when I gave her full roam (actually just the first floor of the house minus the formal rooms) she quit having accidents and she never has an accident when I'm gone, she'll hold it or use the pad (but hold it 99% of the time)

Even though Molly is 1yo, you'll still have a fair amount of training and her readjusting her schedule. 

Kara


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

Haven't read all the responses but I went through this with winston. Ex-pen is the way to go...I promise! Winston just stress pooped. It was not worth the aggravation to have to bathe him and the crate every time. We stopped the crate early early on and never looked back.

I actually initially just baby gated off the kitchen but when I switched to the expen he stopped pooping in the house almost entirely [don't want to jinx myself. LOL]!!! ...it sits in the corner of the dining room. He often lays in there when we're home. It's his 'cave'. I bought it from amazon...it's a baby play pen.

Just read Kara's post above me and wanted to say the only thing in the pen is a dog bed and his favorite stuffy, his Aflac duck! No food or water. 
Good luck.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Tori has never had any separation anxiety. She is a pretty mellow Hav. We no longer have that setup for her, she has the full run of the house whenever we leave. We've yet to come home to any accidents, she's totally trained to the pads when she's indoors.

When we get ready to go I give her a kong w/2 baby carrots wedged in and "sealed" w/a bit of cream cheese (this is the _only_ time she ever gets that kind of treat so, it remains very special). She is so happy to get it she almost pushes us out the door ound:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Leslie said:


> When we get ready to go I give her a kong w/2 baby carrots wedged in and "sealed" w/a bit of cream cheese (this is the _only_ time she ever gets that kind of treat so, it remains very special). She is so happy to get it she almost pushes us out the door ound:


YUM! You are making me hungry!!!!

I'd push people out the door for veggies and cream cheese too! ound:

Although, carrots give gucci the runs. lol I could eat them all day, esp. with cream cheese! Lucky Tori!

The treats never worked for me, she was too upset to eat.

Kara


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## EstrellaVila (Nov 30, 2007)

X pen is a good idea for this. We leave the TV on and give lots of treats before we go so they are preoccuppied and dont care about us. Eventually it gets better!


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

I must admit that we have always just put pee pads down and left the pups with the full run of the house. It seems to work with very little stress on their parts. I know I'm a softy and you are suppose to confine them but I just can't stand the thought of doing that.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

mellowbo;130218. I know I'm a softy and you are suppose to confine them but I just can't stand the thought of doing that.[/QUOTE said:


> I am the SAME way. lol I just couldn't do the cage. Although, she's never been destructive, so that made it easy to go full roam.
> 
> K.


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## havaluv (Oct 15, 2007)

It's funny, but Oliver is happier being confined...even in the car. He is great in the car, except if he doesn't have his crate he cries. If his crate is there, with the door open or closed, he's happy as a clam. He'll come out for a few minutes if the door is open, but then goes right back in. If I leave him out in the house and leave, he just gets more upset...the confining seems to calm him. I guess they are all different!


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

Ok--I don't know if this was just a coincidence or what, but I moved Molly's crate into my office this morning and I left her locked in it (I don't have an ex-pen yet) for 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon with an hour break in the middle while I was home, and she didn't poop!!!! :whoo::whoo:

I'm wondering if it's because I put her in my office b/c every time I'm in here on the computer she lays next to me and goes to sleep. Maybe this room is comforting to her b/c I'm in here a lot?

We'll see what tomorrow brings!
I know it sounds like a long time to be in the crate, but I am a very busy person who is out and about a lot, so I need her to get used to my hectic schedule.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Good for you . . . and Molly. I hope you're headed in the right direction. Once again it's just a function of her getting to the point where she feels safe and knows you'll always come back. Fingers crossed.


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## ILoveLucy (Apr 4, 2008)

lulubella said:


> I actually bought her a kong today


For some undeterminable reason, Lucy is afraid of her kong. She treats it like a grenade. It's really funny to watch!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Glad to hear things went better this morning. Moving the crate may have helped. I had posted not long ago about trying to move Brady's crate and he was so upset by it. He is always fine when we go out and when he is alone, but when we moved the crate, I suspect he cried the entire time we were out. I came home and he was soaking wet from drueling. So, I think location of crate could have a lot to do with it.

Shelly, Brady is the same way. I have been trying to leave him out when we go out because I trust him and feel bad that he is in the crate. But, when he is out and we come home, I can tell he is out of sorts. He really just seems happier in his crate.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

lulubella said:


> Ok--I don't know if this was just a coincidence or what, but I moved Molly's crate into my office this morning and I left her locked in it (I don't have an ex-pen yet) for 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon with an hour break in the middle while I was home, and she didn't poop!!!! :whoo::whoo:
> 
> I'm wondering if it's because I put her in my office b/c every time I'm in here on the computer she lays next to me and goes to sleep. Maybe this room is comforting to her b/c I'm in here a lot?
> 
> ...


Have you asked the breeder what she did with Molly when she left? Was she crated or trusted in the house? Maybe she just wasn't left alone much? I guess those are Q's to ask your breeder, she can probably steer you in the right direction if the pooping and SA doesn't resolve itself.

Kara


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

Kara,

She was always in a crate when they went out, and the breeder was definitely out a lot (she runs 2 businesses & does tons of shows), but I think she was also around other dogs all the time.

Knock-wood she was VERY good yesterday, so we'll see what happens today!

Thanks!
Susan


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I thought of one more thing. I am sure someone may have mentioned this already, but just in case, I thought I would ad a post. I always leave the radio or tv on for Brady when we are out. This way, there is still normal noise for him and he doesn't hear anything going on outside. I saw a report recently on tv with a cd that they had for dogs that is supposed to relax them. It was classical music. I usually leave on a soft rock station for Brady. He is not too picky about his music.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

That's funny. I often leave the television on for the dogs. With the voices going I feel as if they may feel they're not alone. They're always calm and relaxed when I get back.


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Susan - How's Molly doing? I assume she is being a very good girl.


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks for asking Anne! She's actually doing really well! :whoo:
I ended up getting her the smaller crate--she had too much room in there. She's only pooped once in there. Also the breeder told me to sprinkle some baby powder on the bed to make it really cozy and smell good so she won't pee on it, and it worked!! She has only peed once too!

So, fingers crossed that she's done with that. Now, if I could only get her to stop peeing and pooping in my house!!!!!


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Well, focus and love should get you there. Some of our Havs are not reliably housebroken until 18 months - with our full time focus since puppyhood! My Lola is not yet housetrained - despite constant attention from me for the past 6 months. She is 9 months and we call her "Princess Pee and Poop"! But, fingers crossed, she has been accident free for a week. We mark our time in days and weeks in the potty training department! 

I have to keep Lola in an area where I can always see her. I have my house gated off with ex-pens as fences. So she is really only in 2 rooms ever, and I can see her at all times. As soon as I leave the room, she will either poop or, if she doesn't have to , she wil grab a piece of paper to shred to bits. Or maybe grab my eyeglasses off the coffee table. It's always something. But overall she really is a good girl. I know so many owners of other breed that have serious chewing and destructive behavior problems with their dogs. The Havs are not like that at all. 

Molly is one lucky girl to have found you!


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