# "Terrible Twos" or Something Wrong - Need Advice



## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

Gibbs turned 12 weeks on Saturday and all training seems to have taken a few steps back.

1. We were at 2 straight days with no peeing or pooping in the house, not even in the "allowable" spots. He had rung the bell everytime he needed to pee and poo. Now he doesn't seem to care where he goes.

2. He is starting to growl at Dana and I if he doesn't get his way - which includes chewing on the puppy pads, his toy basket, etc. 

3. On only three separate occasions, we gave him a very small piece of "adult" food as a treat. Now he growls at us if when we don't give him any and immediately pees.

4. Last night he nipped me on the nose when I went to give him a kiss.


I'm open to all suggestions.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Others will respond I am certain, but Gibbs is testing the limits and reactions to his behavior. At 12 weeks, he is testing you and you need to handle this appropriately so that Gibbs understands that this behavior isn't acceptable. If Gibbs is your first puppy you would probably benefit from working with a positive method professional trainer for at least a few sessions. This would help you learn techniques and strategies that could help correct behaviors that you don't want and learn to teach behaviors that you do want. For instance, any nipping = ignoring (placing in expen or crate for a brief timeout). Growling can be playful but can also be a warning so the specific circumstances are going to dictate how you handle this. That is why working with a trainer who can be with you and observe the circumstances in which these behaviors occur would be the most helpful.


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## Ruth4Havs (May 13, 2013)

I got worried when you said, "if he doesn't get his way". Do you always give him what he wants? You need to establish rules, supervise Gibbs very carefully, and make sure he knows you are his master.


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

Ruth4Havs said:


> I got worried when you said, "if he doesn't get his way". Do you always give him what he wants? You need to establish rules, supervise Gibbs very carefully, and make sure he knows you are his master.


No, that's just it. Up until two days ago, no meant no. If he started to chew something, a stern "NO" and he would stop. Now, he growls and chews it anyway. I phyiscally remove him from the object and he nips at my hand when I pick him up.

I was clearly his "Pack Leader" until Monday. Now he's challenging me and my "NO's" have to be getting louder and he's getting more "time-outs".


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

He may need to go for a vet check to see if he is okay. Mine have never acted that way towards me.


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## RitaandRiley (Feb 27, 2012)

Good point Suzi, especially since he's peeing so much.


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

RitaandRiley said:


> Good point Suzi, especially since he's peeing so much.


Please elaborate because I notice he can hold his pee overnight for up to 7 1/2 hours, but pees during the day at least 6 times. I was assuming he's simply trying to maximize his treats and/or attention.

He rings his bell whenever Dana and I sit down to eat or are otherwise occupied, but still can find a way to squeeze out some pee.


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## RoutineAvocado (Feb 6, 2013)

That doesn't sound too unusual. Zelda starts behaving like that when she's tired. Kind of like a cranky toddler who insists she isn't sleepy. We just do the time-out in the pen method, then let her try again. If she persists, then she stays in the pen and usually falls right asleep. Sometimes I can also curb the crazy by holding her Himalayan chew on my lap. If that's what she needs, she will immediately settle in and chew it as long as I'm willing to hold it (she can chew on her own but she doesn't settle down as well when it keeps falling).

For the potty issue, he may just be too young for that much responsibility to self-monitor.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

To add to what others have said, if you havent already, enroll in puppy K and find a positive based dog trainer. These dogs respond best to being told what you want versus what you dont want. For example when I took my puppy to puppy K they told us not to use the word "No" but rather divert them away from the behavior and give them something else to do. For example, with toys you teach "drop it" and then throw it or whatever. 

With the peeing, take him outside more often. The bell ringing is tricky. With my dog he seemed to "get it" really fast, but then we had setbacks. Either he'd ring the bell to go outside because he wanted to walk around, or he wouldnt ring it all and sit next to it! 

The nipping and growling, in many cases that's how they play although it can seem aggressive. It gets better but again, you have to divert them to something else. My dog trainer suggested that if our puppy nips, to just walk off, kind of a "if you're going to do that I am not playing with you." This does seem to work. Also a lot of chew toys!

How much exercise is he getting? I have a boy and he is very high energy. If he doesnt get a decent walk (make that walks) that's when I find him going for my shoes etc. 

You'll get more responses, krandall and dgabby will have very good suggestions in addition to what's already been posted. I dont think any of this is abnormal and he isnt doing it to spite you, although it may seem that way! I think sometimes because they do learn so fast, we expect more out of them. It has helped a ton to go to our local dog training club for classes. Not only does he learn and have things to do, we can ask the trainers for help with any problems.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Gibbs Mom and Dad said:


> No, that's just it. Up until two days ago, no meant no. If he started to chew something, a stern "NO" and he would stop. Now, he growls and chews it anyway. I phyiscally remove him from the object and he nips at my hand when I pick him up.
> 
> I was clearly his "Pack Leader" until Monday. Now he's challenging me and my "NO's" have to be getting louder and he's getting more "time-outs".


"Pack Leader" is a meaningless term. It is based on totally outdated ideas on how WOLF packs behaved, and even for wolves has been totally de-bunked.

If saying "No!" works for a while with a young puppy, it is because it startles the puppy out of whatever it was doing,not because it has the SLIGHTEST idea what the word means. No what? Sitting on this rug? Putting this in my mouth? Peeing? Peeing where? You don't want me to pee in front of you?

You get my drift. "No" is not NEARLY enough information, and puppies don't understand WORDS for a long time. You establish a behavior FIRST, then put a word cue on it later. So when you want to teach a puppy not to do something, you teach them what you DO want to do (an acceptable replacement behavior) first.

For instance, no puppy will understand, "Puppy, stop chewing my shoe!". Any puppy will understand it if you hand them a yummy Kong full of goodness, and simply take the shoe away when their attention is diverted. EVENTUALLY they will learn the acceptable things to chew, and will leave YOUR things alone. The same premise goes for teaching acceptable potty habits.

HOWEVER, a 12 week old puppy is still an infant. It takes a year or more of good, consistent teaching to to get the average puppy to the point that they have consistently acceptable house manners. Also, learning is not linear, in children or in dogs. There will always be peaks and valleys. If your training practices are good, being consistent and patient will get you through the valleys. If you're not SURE of your training strategies, get the help of a good POSITIVE based trainer. ...and please don't follow TV advice on raising puppies.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SJ1998 said:


> To add to what others have said, if you havent already, enroll in puppy K and find a positive based dog trainer. These dogs respond best to being told what you want versus what you dont want. For example when I took my puppy to puppy K they told us not to use the word "No" but rather divert them away from the behavior and give them something else to do. For example, with toys you teach "drop it" and then throw it or whatever.
> 
> With the peeing, take him outside more often. The bell ringing is tricky. With my dog he seemed to "get it" really fast, but then we had setbacks. Either he'd ring the bell to go outside because he wanted to walk around, or he wouldnt ring it all and sit next to it!
> 
> ...


Sounds like you've found a great trainer! If I'd read your post first, I wouldn't have had to write as much!:thumb:


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

I'd like to thank everyone for their reply and provide some clarification and an update. 

SJ - The exercise was key. Monday and Tuesday were lazy days in our household and Gibbs didn't get much exercise.

Avocado - Gibbs didn't take any naps on Monday or Tuesday, probably because he didn't get much exercise. He was clearly tired and cranky those days.

Puck - He is certainly becoming more adventurous and willful. 

Ruth - Dana and I have done a reasonably good job adhering to the limits we set, at least for the first 3 weeks. He loves his crate and den, even though it's on an entirely different floor from where we sleep. Feeding times are consistent at 6am, 12 noon and 5:30 and his outdoor time was confined to our yard. He knows whimpering doesn't get him what he wants, and calms himself very quickly. I think our biggest "failing" is that he was so quick to earn our trust, we expanded his boundaries too soon. 

Krandall - Similar to my last line above, Dana and I sometimes forget how young he is because he seems to learn so quickly. I'm learning the ebbs and flows or peaks and valleys are to be expected. Please don't take what I put in "quotes" so literally. "Pack Leader" was in rely to Ruth and used in place of "Master" or "Top Dog" or "Big Dog", which I've seen elsewhere in this forum. Also, please don't think I berate my Gibbsy and scream "NO" at him all the time. He's a quick learner and has learned a few choice words, such as Mommy, Daddy, Gibbs, kisses, treats, good boy and no. Thank you for the suggesting of offering him a substitute. We were offering him various chew toys, but he seemed disinterested. I posted this thread just before going to the Pet Store and purchasing him a Bully Stick (Bull Penis) and Deer Antler. He now chews nothing but the Bully Stick.

Suzi & Rita - His next scheduled appointment is next Tuesday. I don't think there's an emergent problem and will wait until then.


Everyone - Thank you for taking the time to reply and offering your insights. Dana and I have discussed puppy classes and training and are seriously considering it. I think the best thing we can do is work on our own patience and trust what we've read and learned. We read three books before bringing Gibbs home - Cesar Milan's "Raising the Perfect Dog", "Puppys for Dummies" and a book specific to Havanese. We need to remain more confident in our approach and what we've learned. I've been using this forum as a way to quickly check if what we're experiencing is normal so we can quickly guage if there is an emerging problem that needs to be addressed. I post the instant there appears to be a behaviorial change.


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

krandall said:


> Sounds like you've found a great trainer! If I'd read your post first, I wouldn't have had to write as much!:thumb:


Thank you so much! We're really lucky at the dog club and this forum.

You do have to filter though - for example when I did crate games, one of the dogs was barking in the crate and one of the trainers suggested the spray bottle. I really dont think that works.


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## HalleBerry (Feb 22, 2012)

FWIW, training classes outside the home - group classes - do a lot to teach you how to train your dog. They give your puppy a chance to learn in another setting how to behave, and they give you a group of people with something in common to talk to. It's not just about training your puppy to sit/down or whatever, it's also about teaching them how to do it in other scenarios.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

I would like to add, if he is doing something inappropriate, divert his attention from it. Don't leave items you don't want him to chew on lying around. I had to remove my books on my coffee table and any items on the lower shelf of side tables. Anything on the floor was fair game. Also to distract, we found what worked for us was an empty pill bottle with a few stones, pasta, or what ever makes a loud and sharp sound when shook. Worked like a charm for us and only had to use it one time per offense for some things.. Worked much better than no. I think Karen is saying we have to teach them what we want them to do, before no will mean anything.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SJ1998 said:


> Thank you so much! We're really lucky at the dog club and this forum.
> 
> You do have to filter though - for example when I did crate games, one of the dogs was barking in the crate and one of the trainers suggested the spray bottle. I really dont think that works.


Yeah, THAT's not so "positive"! I'm glad you knew better.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

HalleBerry said:


> FWIW, training classes outside the home - group classes - do a lot to teach you how to train your dog. They give your puppy a chance to learn in another setting how to behave, and they give you a group of people with something in common to talk to. It's not just about training your puppy to sit/down or whatever, it's also about teaching them how to do it in other scenarios.


Absolutely! It's one thing to get your dog to do what you want in the quiet of your living room... but can you do it with distractions?

And you're right... where else but among your doggy friends will people understand why you have to talk ENDLESSLY about dog training, behavior and the cute thing they did last night? ...Well, besides here on the forum!


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Also a tweaking in your interpretation of what he is doing...tho it sounds like you've already made that. At 12 weeks he is still really a little baby and none of the behavior you mentioned would alarm me. He is too little to ring the bell on his own and I don't think dogs pee indoors out of spite. Try to understand him from his angle (again it sounds like you're already going in that direction). His world now is food, sleeping, eating, playing, and chewing on things to relieve painful gums from teething. Really testing limits is for adolescents, as in 7+ months, after the puppy completely understands what is being asked and chooses something else.


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