# Spay/Neuter and a dog's libido



## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Ricky (18 months) was neutered 7 months ago and is in perfect health. The object of Ricky's affection, Lucy ( a dachshund who lives next door) is 3 years old and was spayed about 2 years ago. Now, for the first time ever, Ricky is starting to mount Lucy and play hiney hula! It doesn't surprise me that Ricky is starting to reach sexual maturity, but I also get the impression that Lucy might be in heat.

I have searched the Internet on this subject - whether spay/neuter eliminates a dog's libido or alters the heat cycle. The information is conflicting. Ricky and Lucy can frolic to their heart's content and nothing will ever come of it, but evidently the desire is still there, even if somewhat diminished.

Any thoughts on this?

Ricky's Popi


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

not to worry, she won't be in heat. 
Dr. Ian Dunbar ..."The behavioral endocrinology of dogs is quite unique. Whereas the castration of most mammals appears to eliminate secondary sexual characteristics, the masculine characteristics of dog behavior appear to be emancipated from adult hormone levels. Whether or not a male dog will lift his leg when urinating, sniff and mount bitches and be more aggressive than females has all been preprogrammed by fetal testosterone in utero. Adult castration has absolutely no direct effect on urination posture, sexual preference or hierarchical rank. Castration does, however, exert a number of extremely beneficial behavioral changes. Castrated males tend to roam less than intact males. They are more content when left at home or in the yard and are less likely to develop destructive behaviors or attempt escape. A castrated dog will still urine-mark, using the characteristic male leg-lift posture, but it will do so less often. Most importantly, castrated male dogs are involved in far fewer fights than their male counterparts with testicles. All dogs have disagreements, and most dogs fight. However, over 90% of dog fights occur between uncastrated male dogs. Strangely enough, castration does not make dogs less inclined to fight, neither does it reduce the dog's social standing vis a vis other dogs. Instead, castration reduces the desire for other dogs to pick fights with your dog. Castration removes the source of testosterone, the male sex hormone which makes male dogs smell male. Thus, castrated males appear to be less of a threat to other males, which consequently will be less aggressive and combative towards your dog. In a sense, castration makes your dog appear to be less obnoxious to others. Furthermore, if other dogs are more relaxed around your dog, your dog will feel more relaxed around them, and thus, he will be much easier to control. Unlike most other mammals, neutered male and to a lesser extent, neutered female dogs will continue to mount other dogs. Quite common and quite normal. In fact, neutered male dogs tend to mount more than intact males, presumably due to a lack of discriminatory experience." Dr.Sophia Yin ..."Your neutered dog can still have sex. The take home message here is that if you neuter your dog, don’t worry, he can still have sex - if he wants. Most likely he won’t want to. With the lower testosterone levels he won’t have a red hot libido. But neutering doesn’t remove all sexual behaviors. That’s because the circulating testosterone in young male puppies causes brain changes that masculinize them."


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Ricky (18 months) was neutered 7 months ago and is in perfect health. The object of Ricky's affection, Lucy ( a dachshund who lives next door) is 3 years old and was spayed about 2 years ago. Now, for the first time ever, Ricky is starting to mount Lucy and play hiney hula! It doesn't surprise me that Ricky is starting to reach sexual maturity, but I also get the impression that Lucy might be in heat.
> 
> I have searched the Internet on this subject - whether spay/neuter eliminates a dog's libido or alters the heat cycle. The information is conflicting. Ricky and Lucy can frolic to their heart's content and nothing will ever come of it, but evidently the desire is still there, even if somewhat diminished.
> 
> ...





Ricky Ricardo said:


> Ricky (18 months) was neutered 7 months ago and is in perfect health. The object of Ricky's affection, Lucy ( a dachshund who lives next door) is 3 years old and was spayed about 2 years ago. Now, for the first time ever, Ricky is starting to mount Lucy and play hiney hula! It doesn't surprise me that Ricky is starting to reach sexual maturity, but I also get the impression that Lucy might be in heat.
> 
> I have searched the Internet on this subject - whether spay/neuter eliminates a dog's libido or alters the heat cycle. The information is conflicting. Ricky and Lucy can frolic to their heart's content and nothing will ever come of it, but evidently the desire is still there, even if somewhat diminished.
> 
> ...


Kodi has mounted (and penetrated) a bitch in heat. He "fools around with" mounting spayed females and males (neutered or not) in play, and they mount him back just as often.

I have never heard of a spayed female going into heat... They shouldn't because the hormones come from the ovaries, which are removed with the spay. (Same with males who are neutered... The hormone are produced in the testicles). That said, ALL dogs of both sexes, from very young puppies, and whether they are neutered or not, are likely to hump.

I do know from horses that it is POSSIBLE for some gonad material to be misplaced in the abdomen. This continues to produce hormones, and although the horse is not capable of reproducing, it may still act like a stud, and even have male secondary sexual characteristics.  I would suppose that this is possible in dogs too.

We hardly EVER spay horses (because it is dangerous, invasive surgery in a horse) but I certainly suspect it would be just as likely that hormone producing cells could be mis-placed in a female.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> not to worry, she won't be in heat.
> Dr. Ian Dunbar ..."The behavioral endocrinology of dogs is quite unique. Whereas the castration of most mammals appears to eliminate secondary sexual characteristics, the masculine characteristics of dog behavior appear to be emancipated from adult hormone levels. Whether or not a male dog will lift his leg when urinating, sniff and mount bitches and be more aggressive than females has all been preprogrammed by fetal testosterone in utero. Adult castration has absolutely no direct effect on urination posture, sexual preference or hierarchical rank. Castration does, however, exert a number of extremely beneficial behavioral changes. Castrated males tend to roam less than intact males. They are more content when left at home or in the yard and are less likely to develop destructive behaviors or attempt escape. A castrated dog will still urine-mark, using the characteristic male leg-lift posture, but it will do so less often. Most importantly, castrated male dogs are involved in far fewer fights than their male counterparts with testicles. All dogs have disagreements, and most dogs fight. However, over 90% of dog fights occur between uncastrated male dogs. Strangely enough, castration does not make dogs less inclined to fight, neither does it reduce the dog's social standing vis a vis other dogs. Instead, castration reduces the desire for other dogs to pick fights with your dog. Castration removes the source of testosterone, the male sex hormone which makes male dogs smell male. Thus, castrated males appear to be less of a threat to other males, which consequently will be less aggressive and combative towards your dog. In a sense, castration makes your dog appear to be less obnoxious to others. Furthermore, if other dogs are more relaxed around your dog, your dog will feel more relaxed around them, and thus, he will be much easier to control. Unlike most other mammals, neutered male and to a lesser extent, neutered female dogs will continue to mount other dogs. Quite common and quite normal. In fact, neutered male dogs tend to mount more than intact males, presumably due to a lack of discriminatory experience." Dr.Sophia Yin ..."Your neutered dog can still have sex. The take home message here is that if you neuter your dog, don't worry, he can still have sex - if he wants. Most likely he won't want to. With the lower testosterone levels he won't have a red hot libido. But neutering doesn't remove all sexual behaviors. That's because the circulating testosterone in young male puppies causes brain changes that masculinize them."


The only thing I'm not sure of in this is the idea that mounting and even penetration is something unique to dog. Cats do it, steers do it, horses do it, sheep do it, goats... Most of the domestic mammals I know of do it, neutered or not.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> Cats do it, steers do it, horses do it, sheep do it, goats... Most of the domestic mammals I know of do it, neutered or not.


Birds do it, bees do it
Even educated fleas do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love

In Spain, the best upper sets do it
Lithuanians and Latts do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love

The Dutch in old Amsterdam do it
Not to mention the Fins, Folks in Siam do it 
- think of Siamese twins

Some Argentines, without means, do it
People say in Boston even beans do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love

Romantic sponges, they say, do it
Oysters down in oyster bay do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love

Cold Cape Cod clams, 'gainst their wish, do it
Even lazy jellyfish, do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love

Electric eels I might add do it
Though it shocks em I know
Why ask if shad do it - Waiter bring me
"shad roe"

In shallow shoals English soles do it
Goldfish in the privacy of bowls do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love

In old Japan, all the Japanese do it
Up in Lapland little Laps do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love

The chimpanzees in the zoos do it
Some courageous kangaroos do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love

I'm sure giraffes on the sly do it
Even eagles as they fly do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love

The world admits bears in pits do it
Even Pekingeses at the Ritz do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love

The royal set sans regret did it
And they considered it fun
Marie Antoinette did it -
with or without Napoleon

(thanks to Ella Fitzgerald and Tia Karen for a walk down memory lane)

And thanks to all for the information on this most interesting subject. I am really a novice at all of this.

Ricky's Popi


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