# friendly off leash aggressive on leash



## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

Ellie is now 14 months and this problem is not getting better, as I hoped it would.

When she is off the leash (in the park during off leash hours), in a dog run or at a playgroup, she is friendly and playful. If a dog doesn't interest her, she simply ignores him, but is not aggressive.

But when she is on the street on the leash (long or short), or even in the park on a leash, there is at least a 50% chance that she will suddenly lunge and bark very aggressively at a dog who made no efforts to approach her. This happens with large and small dogs and she appears to be pretty serious about her attack, were she permitted.

Sometimes she even gets down on all fours as if to play but when the other dog comes close, she attempts to attack!

As noted, none of this is seen when she is off leash.

Any thoughts?

Louise


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

I wonder if it could be fear? Does she back away when she sees others while on leash?


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I've read that dogs are more aggressive on leash, but don't remember exactly why. Something about them not feeling free to defend themselves if they should need to, whereas off leash they are free to run or get away. No advice from here, though...good luck on figuring it out.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Just a thought--could she be trying to protect YOU from the other dog?


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

mintchip said:


> Just a thought--could she be trying to protect YOU from the other dog?


this was my thought exactly. Jasper tries to protect us from cars. We were told we have to take back the leadership roll. So when a car or person or dog is coming towards you... Tell Ellie to sit slightly behind you. And you address the intruder first. If it is dog and the owner is interested in helping...pat the dog and then let Ellie great the other dog.


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## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

KSC said:


> I wonder if it could be fear? Does she back away when she sees others while on leash?


It doesn't look like fear but I don't know.

She often sees the other dogs as they approach each other. She stands stock still and focuses completely. Then, when they get close, she barks and growls and lunges toward them - even when they are 9 times her size!

Louise


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## highreach (Sep 7, 2009)

You might find some good information on Cesar Milan's website. I have had that experience with my Aussie (male). He is a wonderful dog, absolutely great in every situation except on leash when he sees another dog - then he goes nuts. 

My limited understanding of it, is that my dog is not seeing me as the pack leader in that situation. He isn't afraid as much as he's protecting and being in charge of the "pack". Since it's happened a lot I get tense when I see another dog (knowing what's to come) he picks up on my fear energy and that in turn escalates the situation. What I do now is have him sit/stay when I see another dog coming, I give him a treat and keep him in the sit/stay because he focuses only on me and it's worked for the most part. You might try that. Keep looking - you'll find something that works. I do know how frustrating that can be!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Sheri said:


> I've read that dogs are more aggressive on leash, but don't remember exactly why. Something about them not feeling free to defend themselves if they should need to, whereas off leash they are free to run or get away. No advice from here, though...good luck on figuring it out.


Yeah Sheri that is probably the biggest reason for leash aggression. Another is a learned association between seeing another dog and the aversive feeling of getting choked by the collar. This problem is quite easily remedied but takes a little work. I would recommend a mini book (I think it was less than $7 at Dogwise ) called Fiesty Fido by Patricia McConnell Ph.D 45 minute read. Worth it.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Available on Amazon kindle too.
Carole


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## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks - I just got it on my Kindle but haven't read it yet.

Louise


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

I have the same problem with Marble. He barks continuously, pulls and lunges toward any neighbor or dog while on his leash. He has also attempted to nip at dogs while on his leash. I have worked with a behaviorist, a group trainer and tried to train him on my own. I admit that I have gotten lazy lately, but I have worked on it so long with no improvement. I send him to doggy daycare once or twice a week and he's fine, as long as I'm not there and he's not on a leash. I hope that you have some improvement with Ellie and that the book has some good advice


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## hannah&boo (Nov 4, 2009)

Hi Louise  I am having exactly the same problem with my little Hav boo, he is 4 years old and I only took him on 6 weeks ago so I suspected I would get one or two behavioural issues with him, but I am finding it really embaressing when I take him in to town on the leash and he lunges for dogs even if they are on the other side of the road, I really am unsure of what the right way to deal with it......any tips from anyone would be greatly appreciated. (btw yes my spelling is awful sorry!!!)


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## hannah&boo (Nov 4, 2009)

sorry all I am new to the site and at times I am a little slow! I have just read all the advice people have offered (after posting a request for some ideas!) I think I will try highreach's suggestion with making him sit and giving him a treat as Boo is very treat orientated!


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

I would be interested in ideas here too. My guys walk on a loose lead when there are no other dogs around. They can pass other people well, but when it comes to other dogs oy! I've been working with them ALOT the last few months and Rufus has gotton better with large breed dogs, but still goes crazy over little fluffly ones. I can tell he wants to play, but he pulls and barks. Marley is STILL loaded with puppy energy so it's hard to get him to settle well into our walk. Then any extra stimulation and he's barking and pulling. I've found it's better to work with him seperately...but gee I want to walk them together sometimes too.


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## hannah&boo (Nov 4, 2009)

Hi there Good Buddy, do you work with your dogs just by walking them lots and getting them more used to seeing other dogs or do you have any stratagies you could share!!


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## hannah&boo (Nov 4, 2009)

Hi there does anyone have experience of using a halti and what are anyones thoughts on them ....cruel or not etc etc???? I am reading up on them just wondering about using the halti for walks into town on the leash but I am really not sure if its going to really upset Boo or not.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

hannah&boo said:


> Hi there Good Buddy, do you work with your dogs just by walking them lots and getting them more used to seeing other dogs or do you have any stratagies you could share!!


I'm not so sure I'm the one to go to for advice since mine are no where near perfect! I've been walking them out across the dam several times a week where many people walk and alot of them take their dogs. On Sundays there is a group of dog people that all walk together and those days have the most positive results. This is a pack of dogs that are used to walking together and they put out a great positive energy. My dogs get a chance that day to learn good behavior from other dogs.

On other days I take lots of treats and my clicker. I click and treat when the dogs are heeling well and looking up at me often. I also pre-load my hand with treats as other walkers are getting closer to keep their attention and when they pass the people without pullng and barking I give a click and treat. If they pull or bark, I say uh-uh and keep walking and wait until they are coming along well then click and treat. They have learned to look to me as soon as they notice another person approaching in anticipation of getting a treat.

Some days I feel like they are getting better, but then some days they are barking and pulling every time they see a dog and I feel like I am apologizing alot and pulling them along.

I've googled up dog body language and determined that it's mostly excitement type barking, but how do you get them to be less excited about seeing the other dogs?


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## hannah&boo (Nov 4, 2009)

thanks for the advice and I have only owned my Hav for 6 weeks so I am very inexperinced although I read about the breed for months before getting Boo, it doesn't seem to prepare you for the real thing, it's lucky they are so lovely a breed in all other areas!
And I have read alot about the halti head halter today and I really am considering buying one and giving it a go, Boo already has a harness but that does very little to stop the lunging and barking but does stop him choking himself so I don't look really awful in public whilst he is barking being agressive and choking at the same time (not a good look!!!) but I will keep you posted I think I may order one today and see if it helps....heres hoping


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Hannah, Can you tell what kind of barking Boo is doing? I don't now anything about the Halti but the harness or leash can only help you control the dog. It won't solve the problem if the dog is aggressive or fearful. You might want to consult a trainer locally that can evaluate Boo and give you siggestions for working with him. 

The dog group that walks on Sundays here is led by a dog trainer and she has helped me some.

MY biggest concern with my dogs is their barking at other dogs can start that dog to bark and I worry about it triggering an aggressive response, especially in a larger more powerful breed.  That is why I am determined to work though it.


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## hannah&boo (Nov 4, 2009)

Hi Good buddy, Boo from what I can tell is being agressive lunging and growling and barking at other dogs but only when on the lead and I have heard about a training group near to me on Thursdays but I think I may have to do one on one because I am unsure how he would be with a group of dogs, he does as you said with your pups have good days and bad days, I took him to his vet for a full check up a week ago and there were four other dogs in the waiting room and he was fine he sat down and behaved it seems to be much more problamatic when we are walking. I also take him to a couple of my friends houses with dogs and my sisters and although on the initial visit he was uncomfortable and did growl, after a few minutes he was fine. So I think it is outside situations more than inside and as I only got Boo as a four year old I have no idea of any bad experiences he may have been through.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

With aggressive barking you should consult a trainer and work one on one with him. There has to be some reason why he's fine sometimes and not others and a trainer should be able to observe him and give you good ways to work with him. I hope you find some answers!

Good for you adopting an older dog!


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## hannah&boo (Nov 4, 2009)

I must admit I was looking for a puppy but the more I heard about Boo the more I had to take him on mother him! he had been with his initial family for three years but the family broke down and they stopped looking after him then he went back to his breeder for a year and then I took him on so I knew it was never going to be straight forward but he is sooo affectionate and loving all the hard work is worth it.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Not trying to discourage anyone here, but I had several very good trainers tell me that some dogs will just never be good on a leash. It's a very restraining device (as it's meant to be, of course) and some dogs don't like the feel of them. It makes them aggressive because they are scared of not being able to get away. Of course, work on it a lot and try your hardest to train them out of it, but if you've been working on it for years and haven't seen improvement, it could be that you never will. It depends largely on the dog. Kubrick to this day is scared to death of children when he is on a leash. He will yank hard to get away if you try to start an interaction and actually slipped his collar once (my sister had put it on and it wasn't tightened enough). Off leash, he does just fine with kids because he knows he can get away from them. Of course, he isn't aggressive, but he does freak out. I tried correcting this for years but it never got better. Now I just tell kids on the street to leave him alone but that they're more than welcome to pet Hitchcock (who was better socialized by his breeder and is 100% okay with children on or off leash). It did seem like I was giving up at first, but I feel like we're both happier that I'm not trying to force the issue anymore.

Again, I want to reiterate that I'm *not* telling people to just give up right from the beginning, but that I do think that it's important to realize your dog's comfort level when training.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Lina said:


> Not trying to discourage anyone here, but I had several very good trainers tell me that some dogs will just never be good on a leash.


Lina, it sounds discouraging and comforting at the same time, like saying do your best to work with them, but don't feel defeated if you can't change it.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hannah&boo said:


> sorry all I am new to the site and at times I am a little slow! I have just read all the advice people have offered (after posting a request for some ideas!) I think I will try highreach's suggestion with making him sit and giving him a treat as Boo is very treat orientated!


Hanna ,where abouts in the U.K. are you.?


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## hannah&boo (Nov 4, 2009)

Hi Dave and Molly, I am in Frome which is close to Bristol and Bath  (South West Uk!)


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

This sort of a problem is quite correctable. It doesn't happen in one week or even one month. Just takes a little dedication. Buy the book.


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## hannah&boo (Nov 4, 2009)

hi guys thanks I will order online tonight do you think I can correct the problem on my own or should I be taking him to a trainer too?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hannah&boo said:


> hi guys thanks I will order online tonight do you think I can correct the problem on my own or should I be taking him to a trainer too?


on your own. Just be patient. lol.


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## hannah&boo (Nov 4, 2009)

thanks


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

My guys are the same way. They aren't on leashes very much, but when they are, they turn into pit bulls!


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