# I had a HUGE Scare today



## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I first want to appologize for not posting as much. This February has been a crazy month for me, as I have had to pickup extra shifts to cover for a few girls that quit. I haven't had the time to catch up on this forum or even post and contribute like I have in the past - for this I am sorry. 

But I wanted to share with you all how HUGE of a scare I had yesterday and today. So, as some of you know I have been doing a part raw and kibble diet ( not combined) with Oreo. And up until a month ago, I ran out of kibble so I put him strictly on raw. I was using this brand called Healthy Paws that is supposedly made in Canada. Anyways, the past say 2 weeks I noticed a huge change in Oreo's overall condition. He was getting so skinny and boney. I then began to increase his amounts of raw to double to try to help him gain weight, and I also figured he may be needing a change from the raw chicken patties he was getting, so I got Venison. He seemed to be gaining weight but then yesterday, my son came in alarmed from Oreo's walk and said to me he had blood in his BM! I was freaking out and called the vet, who asked me to take a sample in asap. Well, Oreo made his last BM for the day yesterday, so I had to wait until today.

So here is what scared me: I was surfing through this forum, trying to catch up and Oreo was at my feet. I noticed he was sleeping belly up ( or so I thought), and was twitching. So I figured he was having his usual doggy dreams and was doing quivering with his legs. Well, I looked at him closer and he was wide awake!! So I immediately called him and told him to sit for me. I felt his tummy....nothing, his legs, no flinching (no pain), so I told him to go in a down again. He began showing me his tummy and then as I turned away to look at the computer again, thinking okay, it was just a dream, he began doing it again. That is when I freaked because, although it wasn't a seizure, it was the most unusual behavioiur I have ever seen in him. He has never done this before. And as I observed him more, I noticed he began panting as if he was hot. He rarely pants, unless he is super thirsty or its very hot out, but in this case for no reason he started to pant.

I called the vet and they told me to come in right away. As soon as we got outside Oreo did a BM, but it was almost black and slimy. Sorry, this is gross but it freaked me out further. I rushed him over, and they took the sample to test. They did full blood work on him and they said we may know the results by the end of today, if not tommorrow AM. They did advise me to take him off the raw and to put him back on the Fromm's kibble I had been giving him before. So we will see what results come in and I sincerely hope we can get down to the bottom of this. Sorry that this is so long.


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

That is really scary! Hope Oreo is okay.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Yikes, Helen! That is definitely unnerving. I hope you get some good news soon.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Very scary Helen, we are sending some good vibes your way.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Helen, that is very frightening. Please let us know when you hear anything.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

How scary for you Helen. :hug: I hope Oreo is okay and maybe he had a bad bunch of raw or something? Please keep us informed!:ear:


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Oh Helen, I was wondering where you had been. Poor little Oreo, obviously something is happening with the little guy. I hope that the vet is able to find the cause and that he will be ok. Keep us up to date, adn know that our thoughts and prayers are with you guys.

Hugs & kisses from the 4 L's to Oreo!!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Yikes. I bet you were scared out of your mind. I hope you find what is going on as soon as possible and it sounds like kibble is a good idea for the time being. Keep us posted and HUGS!

Amanda


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

How scary....I hope that you get the results back soon..please let us know what they say...give him some extra belly rubs from us.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I am right by the phone and waiting - I HATE waiting when it comes to these things!! I just want to know that there is no infection and that all the levels are normal. Prior to him getting neutered, they did do a full panel on him and everything checked out fine. So I am hoping and praying that it will be the same and that it is either a parasite or an allergy.

Thank you all for you love and support. This is the main reason why this group is growing at the rate it is, because a community is only as good as its members, and this community is a special one.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Oh Helen, How horribly scary!!! I do hope everything turns out OK. Sending the best most positive healing vibes to your little Oreo. Please keep us posted.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

How terrifying. I can just imagine how you felt. I'm sitting here on pins and needles waiting to hear about the results and sending healing vibes in your direction. It's frightening how many things out there can hurt our babies.

I'm sending you a cyber hug.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Helen, I am so sorry! You must be so worried about poor little Oreo! I hope that everything is okay. I will keep you both in my thoughts today. :hug:


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## Suuske747 (May 9, 2007)

Oh gosh, how scary!!!
Sending you hugs and good thoughts to you and Oreo!!


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

SO sorry to hear about Oreo . I know how devastating it can be when you notice something is amiss and you cannot trace the cause .. Hopefully you will have the results from the vet soon . I hope you have a positive rapport with him as well as in a time of concern and difficulty with illness this is important .
Keep us posted please !!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Helen, I know you're probably worried as heck just waiting. Did they give you any idea as to what they thought could have caused this?


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Wow!

That is VERY scary! Helen, I hope he bounces back quickly! I can certainly understand how scary it is when they get so out of sorts like that and you know they are in pain and not feeling good. it is heartwrenching. 

Maybe its just a bacteria type infection that can be treated with antibiotics.

I know alot of people here do the raw diet, but there is some research out there on dogs getting bacterial infections on it. I really hope the vet gives you a concise answer and the treatment is quick and beneficial. :kiss:

Please keep us updated! 

Kara


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## Gableshavs (Jun 19, 2007)

This is so very upsetting, I hope whatever it is will be diagnosed quickly and that your baby will be home soon. 

I tried feeding my dogs the raw diet, Natures Variety, venison, they would not eat it raw but enjoyed it when I heated the meat in the microwave and then let it cool. 

Please let us know what happens.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Helen, is Oreo with you? or did you have to leave him at the Vets?


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## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

Helen I am so sorry that y0ou and Oreo are going thru this. I hope it is something easily treated and he returns to his wonderful self quickly.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Good luck Helen, I pray it is nothing serious. 

I took both my guys off of raw after it basically ruined their coats. They both were dry and itchy and were blowing coat like they did as puppies. Poor Stogie lost so much coat and he had a lot of breakage. They are bouncing back now that I put them on kibble. I just dont trust the raw any longer...there are too many IFS.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Oh, Helen, you poor thing. I know how scared you must have felt. I hope everything checks out OK. Do you still have the raw food in case they need to check it for bacteria?


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Very scary. Sending healing vibes to Oreo. I hope you don't have to wait too long to find out what the problem could be. :hug:


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

This is so scary for you.....I pray that Oreo will be fine.


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

Oh gosh, I'm hoping and praying along with everyone else that he'll be just fine.
A friend went through almost the exact thing with the raw diet, and stopped.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Helen,
Hoping Oreo is doing better now.. please let us know ASAP whats going on!!

Ryan


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Helen~ How frightening! I'll keep you and Oreo in my thoughts and prayers :hug: Please keep us posted.


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## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

Helen,

I haven't gotten to know you, as I'm kind of still a newbie on this Forum. 

But reading your Post made my head numb. 

I've spent enough time here on The Forum with the people whose Posts I look forward to each day, to really believe that you come to think of everyone else's sweetie as part your own, even though you've never met, and even though they might seem a world away!

People I know who haven't experienced this place roll their eyes at me like I'm a loony :crazy:, but we all know it's true! You really get to feel like you know everyone, simply because their evident passion for their pups equals your own!

Hold tight to that sweetie, and know you're in our thoughts and prayers! :kiss:


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Helen, hope to hear some good news soon! :hug:


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

Helen, this type of stuff freaks me out.....I am praying that Oreo will be A-OK! I will stay tuned for any updates! Glad you took him in!


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Helen- I'm *SO* sorry to hear this about our adorable Oreo. I'm sending hugs your way. Please let us know when you hear anything. I just hate it when one of our babies is sick.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Thank you all for your support. I have not heard back yet, but I have called them to inquire and they said if the results come back then they will most likely know around 6pm. That is, if they make it back today.  I will keep you all posted. I have to run to work, but when I get there I will fill you in on what the doctor thinks it may be.


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## SmittenHavaneseMommy (Feb 18, 2008)

I really hope that Oreo is going to be okay. how's he been so far this afternoon? He's so cute, and I just love your pictures! I am new too, but I feel like I've known everyone forever b/c I like to read all the posts I can. Big hugs to you and Oreo. I had a scare with Kona last night, (so not as scary or important as this one) but I hate that panic that overcomes your body. Please keep us updated as soon as you have some. I hope they come back tonight or a.s.a.p in the morning. Big HUGS


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## Jacklyn Weeks (Dec 23, 2007)

I am keeping you and Oreo in my thoughts today and I hope he feels better soon!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Helen, after many years of testing,whether kids, me or dogs, I have found that normally if it was bad news, you would know right away!! So it might be possible that Oreo just had a bad reaction to some raw food!! I hope you get good news soon. Please let us know as soon as possible, we are all thinking about him tonight!!!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Well, I haven't heard back, so I guess no news is good news. I will call in the morning to find out anyways. Oreo is acting like himself and does not seem to be bothered by things and is eating normally, so it could be the food.

The vet did tell me that it may be a bacterial infection from the raw food, but that is why they did a blood panel to rule it out. They will be testing for parasites too, so I will have to wait and see. The vet is not dead set against raw food but is very keen on the research and testing. So although she did not say that she want Oreo off raw, she wanted him back on kibble to rule out if it is a bad reaction to the food. What she did say was that if the meat is mainly red and muscle tissue, there can be instances of blood in the poop. But as a security measure she wants to see if the white cell count is elevated or not. So back to Fromm's it is for Oreo. I think this is enough for me to never put Oreo back on raw food again. She did say that some dogs, react the way humans do on atkins and go into ketosis - losing lots of weight. And in this case, if there is no parasite, then it would mean that this is what happened to Oreo with his sudden weight loss.

Melissa, as for the coat, Oreo's coat is also going through that as well. It is dry and looks like someone took a weed whacker to it. He is matting like crazy, so that means he is probably not getting the right nutrition as he is losing too much hair. So I will have to wait and see what the test results reveal. I will keep you all posted.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Helen, I am so glad that Oreo seems to be himself tonight. Losing weight that fast would be a big concern for me too, and hopefully you discovered what the problem is before it go too severe!! Give him a kiss for us and we will all hope that in the morning , he is great!!!!!


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

Wow, how scarey! Don't those vets know we can't wait for results for our pups any more than we can for our kids? I hope every thing turns out ok and Oreo is back to his normal self soon!!


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Thanks for the update Helen, it's good to know Oreo is actiing like himself. We will continue to send good vibes your way till you get to the bottom of this.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

This is the first post I checked when I got home. I am really glad that Oreo is acting like himself. I really hope you get answers first thing tomorrow. 

Hugs to you and Oreo.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Helen, please let us know how Oreo is doing - I was so concerned reading this thread. Thank goodness he seems to be doing better on Fromm's. I really hope the food was the culprit and that he will continue to get better and stronger from here on out. That is just so scary, the symptoms you described. 

For those of you who are feeding raw, do you add any kind of omega fatty acid or oil supplements for their coats?


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

i am glad that things are going better for you two...ya just never know about these little guys. please give him some belly rubs from Jillee..and please let us know what the vet says in the morning!!! Hugs to as well!!!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Supposedly raw is good for the coat, but the opposite has been true for Oreo over the long term. So I will be focused on feeding him his kibble and not give in to his pickiness. My vet said that if they get used to changes when they stop eating then it will reinforce the pickiness. So, I will stick to my guns and give Oreo what is best for him.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

:hug:Get Well Soon Oreo!!!:hug:


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Hope Oreo feels better soon!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

you know I too am trying to get the boys back to kibble and canned- I think there may be something to all that science that goes into making kibble. Cash is pudgy and Jasper has recurring anal gland problems-- so maybe all my trying to help them has been hurting them. 

We love you Oreo


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Helen,

I am so sorry to here Oreo is not well. I hope it is nothing serious....hope to hear the results of the test soon.


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## EstrellaVila (Nov 30, 2007)

Helen, 

I am so sorry for everything that is happening to your baby Oreo! My heart stopped when I read what was going on. I am glad he doesn't seem to be affected by whatever it is, but I know I would be crying like crazy if that were me! Those darn vets need to get their act together! I don't understand why they take so long, but hopefully its not going to take much longer. 

I will pray for your baby!

Estrella


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Helen,
I am sorry to hear about the scare with Oreo! I hope the tests come back ok. I will check back tomorrow. Kisses and hugs to Oreo.


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## dotndani (Mar 19, 2007)

How is Oreo feeling? Any news yet???


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I'm glad that Oreo seems to be feeling better! Please let us know when you hear from your vet's office!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I got in the door not too long ago and hubby let me know that the vet called regarding the blood work and all it normal. The results for the parasite will be tommorrow morning, and I am eager to know if there is anything that has been causing this. All I know, is I will simply focus on giving him the best kibble I can that has the science to back it up. Fromm's is a very good kibble and I am going to stick to that. Oreo is acting like his usual self and is no longer panting and doing that really odd shaking.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

So glad to hear Oreo seems to be feeling better.

We try so hard to be perfect parents, I've been thinking a lot about switching to a Raw diet, or one I've home cooked. I think some people have had great experienced with both. Scary to think Oreo may have reacted to food.

Take care.

Best wishes.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

My gosh, Helen, I'd be scared too! I know what it must have felt like as it sounds like Oreo had the same 'fit' that Ricky did back in Nov. He had a high fever. Did the vet take Oreo's temp.? That twitching, panting and not wanting to move or come to you was what Ricky did too. Very scary, so you were very right in getting him in to see the vet. Poor little guy. 

I will definitely be waiting to hear more as it could be anything, maybe nothing to do with the food at all. In a way, though, it would be easy if it was. Eliminate the source and little Oreo will be right as rain. ((hugs)) my friend!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Just caught your latest post. Great news! I agree that Fromm's is perfectly good food, so keep that up and I'm sure Oreo will do fine. Wow.... talk about scary though!!!!!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Good news so far! I'm so glad to read that the blood work is normal and that he is acting like himself again. Now I hope you get good news on the parasite screening next.


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Good to hear that the test came back normal. Maybe it was just an upset tummy. :hug: to you both


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Oh good news on the test Helen. I think you are right to stick with Fromms.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I am eager to hear the results of the parasite test because the rapid weightloss is a real concern to me, as is the black stool. It was very scary and I never ever want to risk anything again. 

Marj, they did take his temperature and he had no fever, and they felt him around the tummy and back to see if he was in pain, and he checked out fine. So, I hope that it was more of an allergic reaction to the venison.

Oreo was not a happy camper at the vet, he was whiney, panting and very stressed. He threw a fit, mind you - a delayed fit - when the inserted the thermometer. I was worried that maybe the groomers did not heed my requests to not drain his glands and may have hurt him, but his glands, thought 3/4 full, checked out fine. I got the vet to clean them out too. So Oreo was not happy, but as soon as we got out of there - he was very happy and so eager to get into the car - his 'nemesis'. 

I will keep you all posted on the results. I probably won't sleep tonight, trying to figure out what happened to him.


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

So scary. Glad he's doing better. Give him extra hugs.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Helen, I'm really glad that blood test came back good. Let us know what the parasite test shows!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

How scary! Keep us posted.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I so happy all is well and he is not showing the symptoms any longer .
It will be interesting to see what they have to say about the stool sample ..


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Helen,

How very scarry for you and Oreo. I am glad that the blood work came back normal and that he is feeling better. I am hoping that tomorrow results are negative for parasites.

Sending healing vibes Oreo's way.


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Helen, I just caught up on this thread. How frightening! 

I'm so happy that the tests have come back normal and hope he continues to do well.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Helen, I just read this thread and how scary this must have been. I am glad that Oreo is doing better and his blood work is good. Hope you hear good news on parasites too. Wishing Oreo a speedy and healthy recovery!


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## Olliesmom (Sep 29, 2006)

oh how i can relate>>>>

olllie was so sick before his $1200 surgery....i was A MESS!!!!!!!


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## Olliesmom (Sep 29, 2006)

our sloppy kisses are going to you!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Helen, this is probably a dumb question, but since his stool was so dark, can you ask them if there was any sign of blood being present, even if there is no sign of parasites? Also, my vet always reminds me that parasites aren't present in every stool sample, so sometimes it takes multiple tests from different times of the day to get a true "clear" reading.

If they do agree that there is blood present, but all of his blood testing is clear, what can that mean?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I am glad to hear he is going back to being himself. I do hope you find out what happened for the future though.

Amanda


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Kimberly, I know you directed your question to Helen, but wanted to say that isn't dumb; as an RN it was my first thought when I saw he had black stools. But I just assumed the vet would have checked a black stool for blood. It's probably a good idea to not just assume something so basic though; mistakes are made every day!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I appreciate the feedback, Jan. I was thinking that it might be a dumb question to ask because it is probably something that has already been asked by Helen.


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## judith (Dec 15, 2006)

helen, i hope things keep looking better for oreo.


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

Glad to hear that Oreo is acting more like himself......keep us updated on any news from the vet.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Helen, thinking of you and Oreo this morning. Hope you get more good news from the vet.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Helen, I certainly hope you have a better day today, and that Oreo does too! I guess the best case scenario is that he had a reaction to the food...and once it stops, so will the problem. Said a little prayer for you last night, and I really hope everything turns out to be OK.


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

How scary for you and Oreo. I just got to this thread this morning or I would have posted sooner. The whole idea of the raw diet makes me feel queasy. I'm keeping Gryff on kibble.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm sitting here waiting for your results right along with you. You certainly made a good case for not feeding raw, which I'd been considering for a long time. Funny thing, I was about to try something new for my babies since the Fromm's is no longer exciting them. I'd rather risk the food sitting in their bowls till they get hungry enough to eat it than taking a chance with an unknown.

My prayers continue to be with you and little Oreo. God bless our little babies.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Just checking in Helen with you and Oreo. I do hope you go some sleep. Hoping for good news.


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## Gableshavs (Jun 19, 2007)

I'm checking in on Oreo, any news?


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Hello everyone, I just called the office and they have yet to get the results. They do have the lab in the office so its not like they have to wait and hear back from another lab. Then again, I don't know how long these things take, but they will be calling my as soon as they know.

Yesterday, the vet did ask me if Oreo ate something he shouldn't have. And to my knowledge he hasn't. He is very good with that and we always try to make sure there is nothing on the floor that is tempting to him. 

Kimberly, its funny because, although they didn't say it, they didn't exactly acknowledge blood in his stool, although to me, just looking at it, it was very dark and slimy - indicating a parasite to me. But then again, they did not look at the sample while I was there.

So I am know waiting, and now sticking to the Fromm's Gold and if the poop clears up then it most definately is a severe reaction to the raw venison.

I just thought it was odd, her saying that if they eat bloody muscle meat, that dogs have been known to have blood in their poop.

So, I will continue the Fromm's to eliminate that as a cause, and if this continues they want him to go on an elimination diet to determine if there are allergies. When Oreo was a pup and was on Chicken Soup food, he used to lick his paws a lot. So to make sure it wasn't an allergy, I switched him over to Fromm's. The paw licking stopped. It is only when I switched him to raw that he really started to lick his bum alot. And if you were to ever look at his anus you could see some pink, indicating inflammation. It was never swollen, but pink. Its only when I would switch him back to Fromm's that it would somewhat stop. I figured since he licked his bum alot, that that was the reason why his breath was really bad. So since I gave her all this information, she wants me to eliminate all raw and see if this clears up over the next couple of days. In the meantime if are testing for parasites and can't find nothing, we can atleast be heading in the right direction.  All this worrying is simply frustrating.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

aww Helen, we're right there with you. I know how frustrating waiting can be. I am glad the Fromm's is working. And especially glad that Oreo is acting his normal self. My Vet doesn't mind the raw either-- but she feels with little dogs who have a tendency to anal sac problems she prefers higher fiber than the raw affords.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if a switch of food is all that it is!!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I'm glad to hear Oreo is starting to act better. Raw obviously isn't agreeing with him  But, I know we just all try to find what is right for each of our dogs, they all seem so different. The closest thing to raw Gucci eats is sometimes I will sear her lamb to med. rare, but that's about it.

I wish they had purer dog foods out there, even the so called 'hollistic' foods still are so complicated. 

Maybe it was just a food sensitivity and he's free of infection and parasites? I sure hope he continues to heal.

Kara


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Missy, that is what I am hoping for and I know that that could simply be wishful thinking on my part. But here is to keep positive and not letting myself to begin thinking negative. But not knowing is the hardest part and worrying as to what it can be. So, I am hoping it is something that is treatable and more definitive.

Kara, I agree. Dog foods shouldn't be so darn complicated. But if this is a food sensitivity, then I will stick to the kibble from now on. I can't risk an irritation like that again.  I am just happy that they did not try to sell me the Science diet because I never would put Oreo on that.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Helen,

Hope Oreo is feeling better?? How long does it take these vet labs to tell you something?! ughhh..

What does Oreo's poop usually look like on the raw? Beamers usual raw poop is light colored.. light brown/whitish looking. Is that what Oreo's usually looks like?

That part of him losing weight in the last couple weeks is weird? Maybe it is some sort of parasite eating his food? I hope the vets call back sooon!!!

Ryan


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Helen, yes in many ways a parasite would be a better answer as it could be easily treated. (but then you would be worried that your family might have got infected....the worry never ends...) I am just so happy he is acting normal. That is the best sign of anything.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Oreo's poop has never looked whiteish - ever. It has always been a normal brown colour, but with the venison it got really really dark brown then to black with red in it. The slime is what freaked me out too because that is definately not normal at all. The colour change is not normal at all and that is what sent me in a tizzy. I am grateful that we got the results of the blood panel and all checked out and the white cell count is normal - so no infection. As for Coccidia testing they have to take it outside, but the other parasites they look at it at the lab. So I am waiting for those results. Sigh, the waiting always drives me nuts :frusty:


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Oh and one thing I did want to share ( the silver lining in this entire ordeal) is that the vet was amazed that I knew what testing needed to be done and why. She, told me that she was impressed with all the research I have done and that more and more owners need to do the same. That is when I mentioned our community and how it is important to us to do all the research before getting a puppy and that I do not support any kind of byb or pet store, but rather breeders who are actively involved with organizations supporting the betterment of the breed by advocating testing to ensure sound breeding practices. So, thanks to this community, I began my journey in learning all I can about this breed - and thanks to you I STILL am learning.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm thrilled to read Oreo is doing much better. The test results sound positive as well...so just hang in there Helen:grouphug: I'm sure it'll resolve itself or at least you'll know really soon. It must be a huge relief to see him acting himself now.:hug:


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

whitBmom said:


> Oh and one thing I did want to share ( the silver lining in this entire ordeal) is that the vet was amazed that I knew what testing needed to be done and why. She, told me that she was impressed with all the research I have done and that more and more owners need to do the same. That is when I mentioned our community and how it is important to us to do all the research before getting a puppy and that I do not support any kind of byb or pet store, but rather breeders who are actively involved with organizations supporting the betterment of the breed by advocating testing to ensure sound breeding practices. So, thanks to this community, I began my journey in learning all I can about this breed - and thanks to you I STILL am learning.


:thumb: Kudos to you! :thumb:


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

i just caught up with this thread and am glad Orea is doing much better. Keep us posted.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Helen, I'm glad to hear Oreo is doing better.
I was feeding the girls a prepared raw consisting of beef heart and chicken. On this particular food their bowel movements were very dark and sometimes slimy. I figured it was due to the beef heart portion since it hadn't been that way on the chicken. On one raw feeding site I read that if the bowel movements are black, add more calcium and phosphorous via bone meal powder or bone and if they stools are white add more meat. 
I finally decided that I didn't like daily poop baths and constant playing with food formulas and the constant worry that they might be missing some vital nutrient. I switched the girls to "Taste of the Wild" a grain free kibble and Nature's Variety Prairie. I will still give them raw but it is not their primary diet anymore. Unfortunately Sedona put back on some weight when I switched so there is still some adjustment of portions needed.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

So I got the call from the vet and she said the poop sample came out negative, but that it is not to say there isn't a parasite. She will put Oreo Panacur and come April I will go in for the regular heartworm testing to see if he did catch that. Today his poop is better and not as black as it was - its pretty dark brown but then again, last night he did have kibble and from now on he will be on kibble.

We will do a follow up test in 5 weeks for parasites but if the poop situation does not change then she wants to do a bile acid test to detemine if its not liver shunt that is causing the weight loss. I don't believe it is, as he is not lethargic after eating or behaviing oddly by rubbing his head on walls after eating. He is actually very playful after eating. 

She mainly wants to eliminate the its not heartworm or liver shunt. So putting him on panacur will ensure that if there is a parasite present that Panacur will kill then, I am willing to put him on that. So, for now, it will be the diet change, ensuring he is getting proper amounts and also, doing a preventative for parasites.
If it continues, then the bile acid test is my next option to see if a liver shunt is present.

So, there it is, I don't know whether to breathe again or worry some more. But in my heart of hearts, I don't believe its a shunt. Time will reveal what it is.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Helen, I am so glad to hear that the blood work came back ok, and we will all hope that the other tests come back ok as well. If it simply is the fact that he cannot handle the raw diet, then that is good news. 
It amazes me about all these foods out there. When I was a kid my dad had a hunting dog. That dog got the cheapest kibble in the store, mixed with whatever we had for dinner and water. That was it!!! And he NEVER went to the vets. Maybe too much of a "good" thing can be bad! 
Keep us up to date.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I think so, and growing up the dogs we had were fed the cheapest food my parents could find and they hardly ever went to the vet. Just for shots and neutering but they were rarely ill.

Perhaps all this fuss about food and getting it just right has been what has affect Oreo so. Too much of a good thing , or anything, isn't good. So for me, I will go back to kibble. Actually, as I am typing this, Oreo is working so hard on his beef tendon and loving every second of it. 

I took him out to potty, and it was freezing - we ran to his potty area, and then the garbage can and back and he did his havanese trotting. He does that when he is really happy, so that is a good thing for me.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Well if he is doing his "Hav trot" then I am sure he is feeling better. It makes you smile when they appear to be happy!!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Right now, I will take any good signs and run with it. That is the only way I can keep my mind off any worse case scenarios. I don't want to go there unless testing shows otherwise. Thank you all for your good vibes and well wishes. It has done Oreo good and for this I am grateful.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Helen, I am so happy to hear that Oreo is feeling so much better! I hope that it really was just a reaction to the raw and that he is now 100%. :hug:


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

When I was growing up we fed our dog those things that looked like hamburgers. We would just crumble them up into her dish.

My grandmother used to cook liver for her dog. Once a week, the whole house would smell like liver (I actually like liver). That was one spoiled dog.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Yeah, Helen, that is good news!!!! I am thrilled your vet was receptive to you being informed. Some vets like doctors treat you like you don't know a thing.
I hope it was the food. Keep us posted.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I switched to Fromms too. Their coats are slowly getting better. Now I can at least feel they are getting softer. I just will never ever use Raw again. Joan went to a seminar and the breeder said a Raw diet ruined her dogs coats in 30 days. So it was not my imagination. 

I am SO glad Oreo is ok,. I hope it is not a parasite and just something wacky he ate that is passing. You were right to take him in and have the test run.


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## Krimmyk (Dec 7, 2006)

whitBmom said:


> Well, I haven't heard back, so I guess no news is good news. I will call in the morning to find out anyways. Oreo is acting like himself and does not seem to be bothered by things and is eating normally, so it could be the food.
> 
> The vet did tell me that it may be a bacterial infection from the raw food, but that is why they did a blood panel to rule it out. They will be testing for parasites too, so I will have to wait and see. The vet is not dead set against raw food but is very keen on the research and testing. So although she did not say that she want Oreo off raw, she wanted him back on kibble to rule out if it is a bad reaction to the food. What she did say was that if the meat is mainly red and muscle tissue, there can be instances of blood in the poop. But as a security measure she wants to see if the white cell count is elevated or not. So back to Fromm's it is for Oreo. I think this is enough for me to never put Oreo back on raw food again. She did say that some dogs, react the way humans do on atkins and go into ketosis - losing lots of weight. And in this case, if there is no parasite, then it would mean that this is what happened to Oreo with his sudden weight loss.
> 
> Melissa, as for the coat, Oreo's coat is also going through that as well. It is dry and looks like someone took a weed whacker to it. He is matting like crazy, so that means he is probably not getting the right nutrition as he is losing too much hair. So I will have to wait and see what the test results reveal. I will keep you all posted.


Awww, I just read this post Helen. My heart goes out to little Oreo. Sully and us send cyber hugs to you. Keep him on kibble darn it. Sully has been on Natures Variety, Blue Buffalo and not the Natures Science diet. His coat is beautiful and his teeth are sooo much better. NV and BB are only in the town about 45 minutes north of us and have found either have been gone on trips to get it, hence the changes in food. Oreo has good genes,so he will be beautiful no matter what! Quick recover to Oreo and you after the fear.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Good stuff, Helen! Nice to know that you are spreading the word of how great it is to learn what we learn here. I agree that the better educated dog owners are, the fewer byb's and mills we will see.

I dont' think Oreo has a shunt either. I think you're right about that. Seems like it was related to his food and hopefully that will just pass. Nice to hear he's as kookie as ever. My little Oreo!  Isn't it nice working with a great vet?

Don't worry about a thing, Helen. You did good.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Helen - great news about Oreo. I think you are right about it not being a liver shunt. Good luck with the kibble. Maybe try a little canned food to help him gobble up some extra and hopefully the weight will come back. Glad he had the Havanese happy trot despite the cold.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Helen,

I am so glad that Oreo's tests came back negative and that he is doing and feeling better.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Helen- I'm so glad to hear Oreo is feeling much better! Yay!! I wouldn't worry too much about a shunt unless Oreo is very small. I bet he had a reaction to the food. When Maddie eats anything with wheat in it, she gets a mucousy, bloody diarrhea (sorry if that's too much information! :biggrin1. Its a form of colitis that happens when something really irritates the colon. The vet said its not really an allergy but a food intolerance to wheat. Oreo probably had an intolerance to something else. In any case, I'm glad Oreo is feeling his spunky self!


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Bella, Freddie, Scudder and I pray for good news. We love little Oreo and hope he is diagnosed with something minor.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

I'm so relieved to read Oreo's doing so much better. Helen, you're such a good mommy to your fur baby!


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Melissa Miller said:


> I switched to Fromms too. Their coats are slowly getting better. Now I can at least feel they are getting softer. I just will never ever use Raw again. Joan went to a seminar and the breeder said a Raw diet ruined her dogs coats in 30 days. So it was not my imagination.


Melissa,

That is really interesting! I wonder what is deficient in the raw diet to cause coat problems - is it too low in fat? Low in nutrients? Vitamins? Just curious to see if Joan mentioned what was said in the seminar about why this is the case.

I do kibble with healthy add ins and supplements, but I was just curious.


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## Diana (Oct 23, 2007)

I am so glad Oreo is doing well. How scary that must have been for you!


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

Yippee! Oreo is on the mend! This is great news!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I do believe it could be an intolerance and I will be very mindful as to what he is eating. He did very well on fromm's and I will stick to it. As for the coat, he is matting profusely and I brush a quarter of his body to find the brush completely full of hair. I think there is something he needs more of that he was not getting on the raw diet. But right now my main concern is doing a preventative for any parasite and also ensuring he doesn't have a reaction like that again. It was just too scary and I never want to risk that again.


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## SmittenHavaneseMommy (Feb 18, 2008)

I am so glad Orea is feeling better! That's so great!!!!! I hope the new food is going to work better for him. He's so darn cute, I just LOVE LOVE LOVE your avatar pic of him in his little shoes!!!!!


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Helen,

Glad to hear Oreo is feeling better! Hope you get to the bottom of this!! Beamer send his love! 

Jane,

I think all dogs/cats/animals react differently to different foods/kibbles/raw meats..
Beamers coat has never been better since switching him to raw 7 months ago. Of course its quite dry and static filled now because of the VERY cold and dry weather. But during the late summer and fall period, it was soooooo silky soft! A 'better' coat is one of the top points for switching your dog to raw in all the 'top reasons to switch' I have ever seen... But then again, all aniamls will react differently to certain things I guess! 

Ryan


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## EstrellaVila (Nov 30, 2007)

So glad Oreo is doing better! At least you know what to do to fix it, and hopefully it works fast =)


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Well, hubby took Oreo out and his BM's are now a lighter brown and normal 'firmness'. It is looking promising. I will be starting Oreo on the Panacur tommorrow and then continue to observe him and his reactions to the kibble. 

I have to admit that this is an eye opener for me and I can now see that Oreo does not respond well to Venison. I gave raw an honest try and for him it doesn't work well with his system. I guess really the lesson is that we all will see what works for our pets and if we follow our gut regardless of what is being said, then it will be the right thing for our pups.

Ryan, I switched Oreo to raw mainly for the coat, but as you can see his reaction was definately not favourable - scary actually  I am just thankful he is okay.

Oh and he is milking this for all he can  He just loved how I focused all my attention on him. Sigh, these past 2 weeks has been a rollercoaster ride that ended in the ultimate scare. I am just glad things are looking better.


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## Gableshavs (Jun 19, 2007)

Great news.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

whitBmom said:


> Oh and he is milking this for all he can  He just loved how I focused all my attention on him. Sigh, these past 2 weeks has been a rollercoaster ride that ended in the ultimate scare. I am just glad things are looking better.


Smart Boy!!! so glad he is doing better.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

whitBmom said:


> I do believe it could be an intolerance and I will be very mindful as to what he is eating. He did very well on fromm's and I will stick to it. As for the coat, he is matting profusely and I brush a quarter of his body to find the brush completely full of hair. I think there is something he needs more of that he was not getting on the raw diet. But right now my main concern is doing a preventative for any parasite and also ensuring he doesn't have a reaction like that again. It was just too scary and I never want to risk that again.


Helen,

I really like the supplement I use, it is called K9-RX

www.k9rx.com

I've turned a few Hav owners locally on to it, and they are all loving the result and they ALL say the dogs coats have really gotten nicer on it. I add a tsp or so to whatever I'm feeding her. I just mix it with a little water and make a sauce (it is flavored) Anyhow, just an idea to get him back on track.

I keep checking this thread to see how he's doing. :kiss:

Kara


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Helen, I am so glad to hear that Oreo is doing better. My vet did tell me not to be too concerned about blood in the stool if they have been having intestinal problems. They said that their bowels get irritated easily. So maybe he just got some food that "churned" him up inside. Does he look like his putting his weight back on??


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

When a small pup loses weight and his stools are so radically changed, it is very scary. I also feed raw, but only occasionally and the dogs love it. I haven't noticed any changes, but I give some raw N.V.'s medallions maybe one or two meals a week and other times, I cook it up to add to kibble. 

Kara, that K9RX stuff looks good, but they are backordered for quite a while. I'm going to look into getting some elsewhere if possible. I'll even ask the owners of the shop I work at if they can get it. It's just what I was looking for that might be of help to Ricky. thanks! 


Edited to add......... I reread the info on K9 supplement and realize that since I'm feeding the dogs a very good quality food that already contains all these ingdts., I think it's not necessary after all. I'm sure that it would be needed if someone continued to feed Iams or Science Diet.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

marjrc said:


> When a small pup loses weight and his stools are so radically changed, it is very scary. I also feed raw, but only occasionally and the dogs love it. I haven't noticed any changes, but I give some raw N.V.'s medallions maybe one or two meals a week and other times, I cook it up to add to kibble.
> 
> Kara, that K9RX stuff looks good, but they are backordered for quite a while. I'm going to look into getting some elsewhere if possible. I'll even ask the owners of the shop I work at if they can get it. It's just what I was looking for that might be of help to Ricky. thanks!
> 
> *Edited to add......... I reread the info on K9 supplement and realize that since I'm feeding the dogs a very good quality food that already contains all these ingdts., I think it's not necessary after all. I'm sure that it would be needed if someone continued to feed Iams or Science Diet.*



I wondered about that as well......
Are we giving TOO much of a good thing by adding supplements?:suspicious:


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Kara, thanks for the heads up on that supplement. I will look into one to add to Oreo's food, as I noticed he has been having 'cracking" when he stands or sits. 

Laurie, It could be that the venison just did not agree with him and it just irritated his bowel. But since I had doubled his serving he has been putting on weight again. Yesterday, I had asked the vet to give me the exact amount he needs daily when I feed him the Fromm's kibble and they told me anywhere from 3/4cup to 7/8 cup. I have seen no unusual BM's since we switched back to kibble Monday evening and that is a relief. I am sure the panacur will kill what needs to be gotten rid of ( if there is something present), but in the meantime he will be getting extra yogurt and probiotics in his food.

I have also heard a lot about Missing Link, as a supplement for nutrition. But right now I don't think neither of us are ready for any 'new' foods. LOL At least for now.

The grateful thing is that he is okay and recovering and that there are no more signs of blood and inflammation. Now, I will have to pick up some extra shifts to cover the vet bills... Just when I thought I had a busy February.... It looks like I will be busy this March too. But with the knowledge that everything is okay.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

whitBmom said:


> Kara, thanks for the heads up on that supplement. I will look into one to add to Oreo's food, as I noticed he has been having 'cracking" when he stands or sits.
> 
> Laurie, It could be that the venison just did not agree with him and it just irritated his bowel. But since I had doubled his serving he has been putting on weight again. Yesterday, I had asked the vet to give me the exact amount he needs daily when I feed him the Fromm's kibble and they told me anywhere from 3/4cup to 7/8 cup. I have seen no unusual BM's since we switched back to kibble Monday evening and that is a relief. I am sure the panacur will kill what needs to be gotten rid of ( if there is something present), but in the meantime he will be getting extra yogurt and probiotics in his food.
> 
> ...


:ear:glad to hear Oreo is doing better!:hug:


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

So true, although you will have extra work - you have a good feeling that he is well!! Those vet bills sure do add up quickly!!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

They do add up very quickly, but just having that peace of mind is priceless.


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Any news on Oreo?

Sorry I posted from the front page.....I am glad to hear he is ok and hope he continues to do well.

Kisses from Sissy


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Helen, how is oreo doing now? has he gained back some weight?


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Sorry for being tardy in posting. I have to fill in during day hours for a head administrator at work ( she's on vacation). But Oreo's stool is normal now and he is steadily putting on weight. But since yesterday, he is getting 'picky' all over again... Sigh :frusty: That was the reason I switched to raw in the first place because he actually ate all his food. Now according to the vet, he is supposed to get 3/4 cup to 7/8 cup per day. As of yesterday, I'd be happy if he'd eat HALF :frusty:

The vet did tell me not to make switches to often as some dogs learn to hold off for the "good stuff", so with her advice in mind I am sticking to the Fromm's and he will have to eat it when he is hungry.

Oreo is done his Panacur treatment, and I have to wait another 4 weeks before we re-test his stool. Thank you all for your support and good vibes. Oreo is recovering because of all of you.  :grouphug:


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Helen, good to hear that Oreo is doing so much better! That sucks that he is becoming picky again, though I'm sure he will eat if he's hungry. Let us know how the next test goes! :hug:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Glad to hear he is doing better. One thing I try to remember to not give into these guys, if it was up to my girls they would eat junk food all day, but if they are hungry they will eat their kibble! Just something I have had to remind myself about!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Great news Helen. Yes I need to do better on that front too. repeat after me "if they are hungry they will eat"


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I am so glad that Oreo seems to be feeling better - what a [email protected]!


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Helen, I'm so glad Oreo is doing so well. What a relief.

I agree about the supplements. Kara, I know you are home cooking so you aren't feeding Gucci a food/kibble with a lot of added nutrients so she probably needs it. But many of the kibbles on the market already have added nutrients and yes you can have too much of a good thing. So for dogs on any kind of high quality kibble, it's not necessary and excessive amts of certain vitamins can even be bad for them (same with humans!)

I feed Tessa the NV medallions for one meal a day and use different kibbles for her second meal. So far, she's doing well.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

I am so glad Oreo is doing better. 

Just remember that Havs are really picky eaters and will drive you crazy with their eating if you let them. I am going through the same thing right now. You probably won't believe it, but Bugsy decided that he is no longer interested in home cooking. He is also not interested in any dry kibble or soft dog food. He acts normals, plays normal, so we are playing the battle of the wills game. Since he is already on home cooked, it ain't gonna get any better for him. He will have to eat at some point!!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Helen, How is Oreo doing?


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Not only how is Oreo doing, but can we see some pics of the little guy? It's been AGES since we've had any and I am in serious Oreo withdrawal, Helen. PLEASE???? :biggrin1: hoto:


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