# Yikes: today I got a surprise letter from the AKC



## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

Apparently Milo's lineage is in question. I don't know what to say after reading this. Breeders: is this common? What is my next move here?


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

Click on the letter for a larger image.


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## dbeech (Jun 16, 2009)

Have you talked to your breeder yet? She has to be aware of this situation.


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

Not common! Get on the phone with your breeder and see what they have to say. Since the letter doesn't say where in the pedigree this error occurred, it very well might not be the breeder's fault, but s/he should be aware of this situation and you can talk it through. 

I can't quite read the letter through, but if Milo was going to be a performance dog (obedience, agility, rally, etc) it sounds like this might have an affect on that. If so, the breeder should act accordingly!


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

I have every intention of contacting Milo's breeder. I have a strong feeling she's well aware of it by now. I just wondered if this has happened to other breeders on the Forum.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Did you have to send in Milo's DNA for some reason?

Milo's breeder will need to get it corrected and make sure the right parents are identified. Do you know if any of Milo's littermates have been kept intact? (Don't answer this because it is none of our business.) That would have a huge impact on the registration of the whole litter. If they are all spayed or neutered, I don't think it is really a big deal except that all the records are now wrong, but at least the errors can't be perpetuated.


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

For those of you who can't read it, it says

A parentage verification analysis of American Kennel Club was conducted on a dog in your dog's pedigree/lineage. The DNA results indicate that this dog could not be the offsring of the parents to which it is registered. Please be advised that this does not imply incorrect parentage or incorrect identity of your dog(s) or any offspring that your dog may have sired and/or whelped.

Because your dog is a direct descendent of a dog in the litter with incorrect parentage, the registration of your dog and its offspring have been placed on referral. This means that AKC service will not be provided if the dogs in this litter are bred, sold, transferred, and awards will not be recorded if these dogs participate in any AKC sanctioned or licensed events. We regret the necessity of taking this action.

The breeder of the litter with incorrect parentage has been notified and we have requested additional DNA samples to determine correct parentage. If correct parentage cannot be established, the AKC will evaluate the excluded litter to detemine if it meets conditional registration requirement. Because your dog's direct parentage is not in question, there is no action for you to take at this time. All recorded owners will receive written notification at the conclusion of this inquiry.


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

Kimberly,

No, I didn't have to send in Milo's DNA. I don't really know anything about his littermates. I'm wondering if Milo could lose his AKC certification.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Ohhhhhhhhh, I just read your typed out portion. So the problem is with the registration of one of Milo's parents. One of them had a parent listed incorrectly, so now Milo is affected. I get it now. In a sense, Milo's registration is on hold. Yes, the breeder will have to get this corrected right away.

This did happen to three breeders I know (and many pet owners) because one dog's registration (parentage) was found to be incorrect also. It was a huge mess because a lot of those breeders had puppies out in the ring and all of their registrations were put on hold as well.

ETA: I hope this doesn't worry you because it really doesn't change a thing for you. It will all get straightened out eventually. The letter was just to inform you. Now if you were showing Milo in any AKC events or breeding him, it would be a huge deal because no awards could be given to him and no offspring could be registered. In Milo's case, this is probably just a simple change on his AKC papers, which you will get in their correct format in a few months.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Oh wow Joyce....I'm sorry this has come up. I hope it all gets straightened out and you keep us updated on what your result ends up to be.


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## Trish (Jan 15, 2008)

I received the same letter also yesterday for my two pups.....I guess we will wait and see how this plays out!!!


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

I never sent in Gryff's papers.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

I hope this is the same breeder and not an epidemic! I know I would be upset no matter what I planned to do with the dog if I did not get the dog I thought I bought. One of the reason a person buys from a breeder to to know background/lineage, etc and that is part of the price of a purebred dog, at least to me it is!
Of course this does not change your love for the dog, just something I would want straightened out and I would be very upset if that breeder had not contacted me well in advance of receiving a letter from AKC. JMHO


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

Trish - may be the same breeder.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

ivyagogo said:


> I never sent in Gryff's papers.


Me either. I planned to, but didn't get around to it.


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

Yes, Flynn, that's exactly how I feel. Brook is a rescue dog who was found wondering the streets of Brooklyn. I'll never know her lineage, and that's fine. With Milo, I paid for an AKC dog with a clear lineage. I just find it upsetting. I never intended to breed or show him, but that's not the point. We dealt with his genetic illness -LCP- and the breeder did help with that cost. I thought we were done with issues.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Milo's Mom said:


> Yes, Flynn, that's exactly how I feel. Brook is a rescue dog who was found wondering the streets of Brooklyn. I'll never know her lineage, and that's fine. With Milo, I paid for an AKC dog with a clear lineage. I just find it upsetting. I never intended to breed or show him, but that's not the point. We dealt with his genetic illness -LCP- and the breeder did help with that cost. I thought we were done with issues.


Try not to let it upset you too much. It would be a bit disconcerting for me too. I would contact the breeder and nicely ask her to explain. Perhaps it is just a simple error. It sounds like AKC is working to sort it all out and let everyone know. It would be very frustrating if you were showing or competing and had to put that on hold. I hope it's not too very many dogs affected by this and that it gets sorted out quickly.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> ... and I would be very upset if that breeder had not contacted me well in advance of receiving a letter from AKC. JMHO


The breeder was probably informed at the exact same time and therefore, not able to inform anyone in advance of her receiving the letter.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Perhaps I am missing something here, but if DNA testing was done, didn't the breeder have to know prior to the letter from the AKC? Maybe it was the breeder of the grandparents, but someone had to know for the DNA testing to be done, didn't they?
At some point a breeder should have contacted those involved. Or am I wrong here?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Well, we don't know what triggered this.

For example: The AKC requires DNA to be done on a male that has sired four litters (and they will not register any of the pups in that fourth litter until it is done). You send the swab into them and later they send you the DNA breakdown in the form of a letter. Done. Now, if that test showed the sire could not possible be the product of the sire that is listed _for him_, then AKC would shoot letters out to that dog's sire's owner, the current stud in question and of course, all of the owners of the offspring. It would all go out at once.

In the case of the situation I mentioned several posts above, it could have been a case of an oops breeding or a dual sire breeding (some pups belonged to one sire, some to another), but one person insulted the breeder about her sloppy breeding practices and she decided to say "screw it" and didn't get DNA done on her dogs to figure out what happened and a whole bunch of people had their registration pulled on their dogs.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Havtahava said:


> Well, we don't know what triggered this.
> 
> For example: The AKC requires DNA to be done on a male that has sired four litters (and they will not register any of the pups in that fourth litter until it is done). You send the swab into them and later they send you the DNA breakdown in the form of a letter. Done. Now, if that test showed the sire could not possible be the product of the sire that is listed _for him_, then AKC would shoot letters out to that dog's sire's owner, the current stud in question and of course, all of the owners of the offspring. It would all go out at once.
> 
> In the case of the situation I mentioned several posts above, it could have been a case of an oops breeding or a dual sire breeding (some pups belonged to one sire, some to another), but one person insulted the breeder about her sloppy breeding practices and she decided to say "screw it" and didn't get DNA done on her dogs to figure out what happened and a whole bunch of people had their registration pulled on their dogs.


IT all goes back to the same thing I guess, trust your breeder!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Well, unfortunately, trust doesn't have a lot to do with accidents. Every breeder I can think of has had an accidental breeding, and sometimes you don't even know it until later.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

By the way, I have no idea who the breeder is or the reason for the letter, so I'm certainly not defending him/her. There could be so many reasons for the letter being distributed that it is hard to make any conclusions without more information. That's all.


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

I have written an e-mail to the breeder, so hopefully there will be a good explanation.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

It's not necessarily a problem with Milo's breeder, although it certainly could be. Just as the letter states, the problem is with a dog on Milo's parents pedigree. There is obviously more to the story.


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## Trish (Jan 15, 2008)

I just got a call from my breeder who was upset over this situation and tried to notify everyone before the letter arrived. She will keep me posted and hopes it will be straightened out soon. I appreciated the call and look forward to hearing from her when things become clear on the lineage.


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

I also heard from the breeder. She explained to me that if a dog sires more than 3 litters a year or more than 7 in a lifetime, the DNA test must be done. She is upset with this situation; unfortunately, it's out of her control at this time. She is dealing with elderly breeders from out of state. She is hopeful the situation can be resolved. She wonders why the AKC doesn't require DNA testing before breeding the first time. She will have many unhappy owners if this can't be corrected. There are many puppies involved. I never intend to show Milo, so it's not a crisis for us, just a disappointment.


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## Wildflower (Dec 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry -- I have to delete my post (at the request of my friend) as the similar situation I mentioned is apparently still in the courts.


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## KarmaKat (Feb 19, 2010)

So sorry to hear about this. It must have been a shock coming from a letter like that. Hope everything works out. Hugs


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## jacqui (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm late getting into this thread but, Joyce, I am so sorry for your stress. I can see how easily this can happen and hope you let us all know how it works out.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

DNA may bring many skeletons out of the closet. Years ago a great hunting dogs was a dud stud. His brother was not. Guess who got the glory and who got the girls. This was not as bad as the many stories of breeders with different studs, using the one they thought was best for a bitch not the one the bitch’s owner selected. Or if the selected stud was sick or incapacitated using another stud. There are probably much worse wrong pedigrees than these in the history of many of dogs. 

In some cases I’m not sure how it would ever be corrected which is horrible for the breeders. Most of them started just like us, buying a dog then showing and off they go into the process of becoming a breeder. For those of us with pets registration is only a piece of paper for breeders and their lines this could be devastating for some.


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