# how do we prevent people from buying from puppy mills.



## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm so upset. My secretary told me yesterday her mother was getting a puppy. She bought it "online" from a "breeder in texas". It's a mixed breed dog (snauzapoo or somthing ridiculous) and she's paid a ridiculous amount for it and is having flown here to Canada. I told my secretary that this is a puppy mill. Then we got online and looked up the "breeder" and it is definitely a puppy mill with lots of warnings online. She got upset and called her mother to tell her and see if he mother had already sent them money. Of course her mother has "fallen in love" with the photo. I then found a shelter nearby that had lots of small mixed breed dogs much like the one she's looking at, and much cheaper! She can't be convinced! People are soooo stupid! I don't know this woman (my secretary's mother) but i feel i need to try and educate people where I can but this one is too late to prevent (and I've already overstepped my boundaries with my secretary on this one). I'm so frustrated.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Someone said, "You can't fix stupid." You can help ignorance, but you can't fix stupid.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

My sister in law, who is a doctor and they are both educated people, bought a dog from a mall pet store last week  the thing is, I am pretty sure I had this discussion with them a few years ago when they bought their first 'guard dog' (who, is an Australian shephard and does not bark at anything and wants to be friends with the burglars..lol) and either, they weren't listening, or they didn't care...or, iDK, they think I'm a crazy dog person and off my rocker at any rate, I"m guessing this German shephard will be too sick to bark at intruders.

They want a dog like gucci, but in a bigger package..Gucci is the best 'guard/alert' dog ever,she can hear/smell people all the way across the house.

I really wish there was a way to fix stupid/ or fix caring...or educate the masses. I know we've all seen news reports and sad commercials, but how do some people not process those?


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

The only thing we can do is try to educate people before they buy that cute puppy from a questionable source. We also, sadly, have to recognize we won't reach everybody or make them understand.

Kara, you had me LOL with that story.


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## Bidik (Aug 23, 2012)

I once met a woman who bought a teacup puppy on internet. Turnout that he was not a teacup but a 2 week old! She was furious obviously, called the police and that particular puppy mill was busted but there are so many others out there. It is so sad.
When Cora and I go for a walk, we usually get questions on his breed and his character. I direct them to petfinder. There are many adult and puppy Havanese there that my heart breaks. I also regularly search petfinder and post the profile of dogs on my facebook page. You never now when and where you change the fate of a dog waiting for a loving home.


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## Dory (Jan 4, 2012)

Tom King said:


> Someone said, "You can't fix stupid." You can help ignorance, but you can't fix stupid.


Ain't that the truth!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Bidik said:


> I once met a woman who bought a teacup puppy on internet. Turnout that he was not a teacup but a 2 week old! She was furious obviously, called the police and that particular puppy mill was busted but there are so many others out there. It is so sad.
> When Cora and I go for a walk, we usually get questions on his breed and his character. I direct them to petfinder. There are many adult and puppy Havanese there that my heart breaks. I also regularly search petfinder and post the profile of dogs on my facebook page. You never now when and where you change the fate of a dog waiting for a loving home.


Even if it WERE a "tea cup" (no matter what breed) responsible breeders do NOT breed these dogs. They are outside the breed standard, and for good reason. Very small dogs are much more likely to heave heart problems and liver shunts.

Rescuing a dog, whether through petfinder, a breed rescue or a local shelter is a great idea for people who want to go that route. There are many lovely and loving dogs in need of homes. but there is also NOTHING wrong with buying a good quality, registered dog from a reputable breeder. Just do your homework first.

:rant:It drives me a little nutty when people tell me that they have "already fallen in love" based on a photo. I'm sorry, but that's just DUMB! These people haven't fallen in love with that puppy... they've fallen in love with the IDEA (usually a very idealized idea) of a puppy. When the person has never even interacted with the animal, and doesn't have the first clue whether the animal is going to have a compatible temperament and energy level they are just ASKING for trouble. Sure, sometimes it works out fine, but it is luck, not planning. When it doesn't work out, the people are shocked that little "Muffin" should have been named Cujo.

Stepping down off my soap box now. :bolt:


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

YES, the IDEA of a puppy/dog can be so very different from the reality.
Especially these cute little guys and girls... I regularly have to remind others that no matter how cute and Wonderful Tillie is, she IS a DOG and she does dog stuff, lol


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## Buzzys Mom (Sep 28, 2010)

My husband's cousin bought a miniature schnauzer from a pet store and his aunt was insisting it was from a breeder. I had to explain to her that just because they had papers and she is registered, does not mean she came from a reputable breeder, and that most likely the opposite is true. She said after this dog, she won't get another but I now know to keep an eye on his cousin for when he gets puppy dreams to discourage this.


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## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

talked to my secretary today and her mother won't change her mind. I've decided to keep my mouth shut, can't do anything now. With all the press around here about puppy mills, puppy mill seizures on the news, pet stores in the province have all stopped selling live animals, etc, i would think she would know better. I guess not everyone has gotten the message. Geez, just googling this "kennel" brings up 10 pages of warnings that it's a puppy mill. They had >200 dog breeds advertised


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Sadly I deal with this everyday. I hate the term "teacup----" usually a yorkie. There is no such thing only that the dog is within the breed standard, 3-7 lbs. Almost all yorkies I see are 10-20 lbs and almost all come from millers. There is no way to prevent people want things instantly and for cheap. Once I came across a lady who said she wanted a Havanese, but none of the breeders had puppies so she bought one at a pet store! That one turned out to be very nippy and hard to groom. Then, a lady bought a Havanese from a place that screens breeders and gets nice puppies, she said. This pup had a crooked under bite even more than a tzu, thin long, long legs, a small bump on the side and a healed broken tail. All these things I noticed during the check in, and I just had to pull her to the side when she came to pick up, and told her the third party was a puppy broker and the mother, almost certainly was abused and neglected. This is in a well-off, educated area.


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## Tia (Nov 28, 2012)

I have to admit before Doug I had little interaction with Dogs. I wasn't a dog person in the slightest. In the beginning I was considering a cross poodle, maltese for their 'cuteness' but I did my research and quickly learnt I was delusional! Sure, they look cute as puppies but there are so many health issues and in the end you really have no idea what you will end up with in terms of an adult dog - both in looks and temproment.

We did buy Doug before seeing him however had limited options for breeders local to us and after many phone conversations around our lifestyle, what we wanted in a dog we agreed to buy Doug. We got to see heaps of pictures of him, his parents and other pups from the litter and have all our questions answered by the breeder.

I am so happy that we went with a purebreed and did the research to find a reputable breeder we were comfortable with. I have actually been talking with other people who like me are a bit crazed by the cuteness however when they meet Doug and see his wonderful nature and how well he has taken to training (not to mention him being super cute) they are converted!


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## Alcibides (Feb 14, 2012)

This may sound off base, but is there no virtue in "rescuing" a puppy mill puppy even if one has been duped into paying a fortune for it and traumatizing the baby by flying it home? I am so grateful that Lucky came from a wonderful breeder and I know so many of his great qualities were bred into him somehow, and his breeder has been a touchstone in my care for him. BUT I have a friend with a sad little Cavalier (is that the name?) who was abused as a baby dog and is comfortable with no one but my friend. The dog seems so sad and terrified that I wonder how she gives any pleasure to her owners (I feel her angst every time I see her), but the joy of rescue and safe haven seem to mean a lot to my friend. Now granted my friend wasn't duped into thinking this would be a well adjusted show dog, but the associate whose mother is in love with a photograph may end up saving a little puppy from a dire future. Is this completely wrong headed?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Alcibides said:


> This may sound off base, but is there no virtue in "rescuing" a puppy mill puppy even if one has been duped into paying a fortune for it and traumatizing the baby by flying it home? I am so grateful that Lucky came from a wonderful breeder and I know so many of his great qualities were bred into him somehow, and his breeder has been a touchstone in my care for him. BUT I have a friend with a sad little Cavalier (is that the name?) who was abused as a baby dog and is comfortable with no one but my friend. The dog seems so sad and terrified that I wonder how she gives any pleasure to her owners (I feel her angst every time I see her), but the joy of rescue and safe haven seem to mean a lot to my friend. Now granted my friend wasn't duped into thinking this would be a well adjusted show dog, but the associate whose mother is in love with a photograph may end up saving a little puppy from a dire future. Is this completely wrong headed?


If you want to help by rescuing a puppy mill dog or pup, do it by getting the dog through a reputable RESCUE. EVERY TIME someone buys a puppy mill pup they are not only perpetuating the problem, but they are also dooming the parents of that pup to more years of neglect and abuse, and probably a horrible death when they are no longer able to produce large frequent litters. IMO, there is NO acceptable reason for buying a puppy mill dog.

There are plenty of puppy mill dogs (and some puppies too) that make it into rescues through raids, and even owner surrenders. In fact, the majority of purebred dogs and puppies in shelters (and breed rescues) are puppy mill dogs, because GOOD breeders write it right into your contract that if you can no longer keep the dog, you MUST give it back to them. So for the people who want to feel good about rescue, they should REALLY rescue... through a shelter or breed rescue.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Maybe their is a way when people find the web sites to some how advertise above and below the web page warning people its a puppy mill? our post end up on if we use a breeders name or a company name. Maybe that would help.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Most of the public do not know about puppy mills/commercial breeding (USDA inspected), they see them on the news and feel sorry, but they do not identify at the time. Many people remember the days of getting a dog from the local pet store who sold local breeders or back yard breeder puppies only displayed on the weekend if ever. Many people watch the rescue shows and think all shelters and pounds will find their nuisance puppy a home so they drop them there.

People who suddenly want a dog often go to the internet and buy based on looks...often they do not get the puppy in the picture (lots of cut and paste) the designer dogs have caused an already strained shelter system to overload. The dogs as someone pointed out sometimes do not stay cute as they envisioned some are sick, will have life long problems (due to poor health of mother and poor conditions), many will have behavioral problems. The dog does not deserve this or do we. 

Even some show breeders misrepresent their dogs, generally I side with the breeders, but there are problem ones, people need to educate themselves, all we can do is keep talking, sometimes it does sink in. It may take a learning curve for your friend or family member but when they finally say to you next time I am doing my homework and getting what I paid for.

I have a friend she bought a Golden years ago from a pet store...it was too late...she was in love. He was smaller then the standard and was slow...sort of dull in the brain. He died at 13. She called me and said Robbie I got a new dog and I listened to you I did not go to a pet store. I bought from a breeder and met him and the puppies in the parking lot of the store...Well, she half listen. She paid 1,500 for the Golden and $2,000 for a Boxer. The Boxer has aggression problems she has paid to have a trainer work with him...she does not trust him with her child. Last year she looked at me and said I made a mistake with my last two dogs...I get it now...I will only buy from someone I meet at a dog show or visit their kennel and meet them and the dogs. It took a few thousand dollars, some disapointments, and 15 years for her to get it. This is an educated career woman.

I also know a judge who paid 3,500 for a Maltese from a show breeder her puppies are all small but the standard is small, after a week the puppy got sick, she took it to the Vet after two more weeks she went to NC State Vet School, she paid several thousand dollars, the puppy had liver shunt inoperable...her husband made her take the dog back to the breeder (he told me he was not willing to watch it die, and she would not put it down), the breeder claimed the puppy was fine...but would give her another next breeding, but no money back because the puppy was fine. Two years later no money back and she found out the woman had the dog destroyed a week later and has had many puppies with liver shunt. We as buyers need to do our homework, if she had of done hers she would have gotten an older one if small or a bit larger and went with someone who health test and publishes their results. Sometimes it takes hard lessons, it breaks my heart but I hope everyone keeps putting the word out.


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