# Casey Anthony



## davetgabby

Quite the trial. Gwen and I have been following this for the last three years. Love the fights with the crowd trying to line up for the 50 available seats in the courtroom. Hope there aren't any morons on the jury. LOL I 've watched more HeadLine News that I did the hockey playoffs.BTW... Congrats to Boston , I was actually pulling for them over our Canadian ,Vancouver Canucks.
Love Nancy Grace's BOMBSHELL TONIGHT.


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## dodrop82

I'm addicted too, Dave! Unfortunately I spend too much time working and tending to my family during the day, and watch the shows covering it all evening...which doesn't cover near enough for me! I got nothin goin' on tomorrow! It's gonna be me and the trial all day long!!!


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## davetgabby

yeah , at least we get half a day of court to watch on Saturday's. Gwen watches all day and fills me in when I get home at five. Then it's four hours of HLN. I could never understand how women watch soaps , but I must admit , I',m hooked on this one. Do you think Casey will testify? Amazing how half the "experts" say yes, half no. If she does , it won't be pretty for George. This woman is the worlds best liar and storyteller. For a trial that was supposed to be at least two months long, it sure has moved along. I'm worried about the one juror that "can't judge anyone". The judge should never have let her in. We'll see. I will never guess what will happen after what happened in the OJ trial.


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## Cailleach

I'm a bad Canadian...I Hate Hockey.


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## Julie

I have been watching the court case with Casey Anthony and I am just amazed at how truly awful that girl must be. I absolutely have grown to depise her and I don't even know her! uke:

I can't imagine accusing her dad and brother of molesting her....WTH? I don't believe that for a second and evidently they can't prove it either because the paternity of Caylee proved otherwise. Another lie huh?

Then there is George--trying to accuse him of killing Caylee or helping hide the body? How stupid are these people? He was a former police officer! Do you think he'd be stupid enough to lay his grand daughter's body out in a wooded area so close to his house? A police officer would know a little bit better way to dispose of a body I'm sure.

Then the bug guy today--------:der: I loved how the prosecutor wiped the floor with that dumb butt!

Casey is really lucky I'm not on her jury------she deserves the "attack of the blowflies".


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## Luciledodd

I am glad to know that someone else is watching besides me. Since I am home all day still recuperating that is all I have to do. Course if it was left up to me, I would have already hanged the woman. But one of my nurses has a terrible story that made the national news this week. Her little 17 month old niece was beaten and RAPED by the fathers girlfriend. She died at Vanderbilt hospital over this past weekend. DNA proved that it was the girlfriend and not the father that did this. The mother of the child is the sister of my nurse and the child was with the father for normal visit and the low-life leaves the child with his depraved girlfriend. The Huffington Post carried the story on the internet two days ago. Hopefully some prisoner that is already serving life will do this woman in before the state wastes money on a trial.


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## Lizzie'sMom

I cannot stand to watch Casey. Everything out of her mouth is a lie. That poor child.

Lucille-that is AWFUL.


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## sandybe

i dvr the trial and watch it every night.
can fly through the ads this way.


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## HavaneseSoon

:frusty: But, I keep watching....:couch2:


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## davetgabby

Glad there are some feelings here that I share. Yeah Julie it's hard not to dispise Casey. But boy can she make up a story with DETAIL on the spur of the moment. It will be something else if she testifies. Lucille , amazing how you don't even have to go far to find another SICKO. I have to check out the DVR , I missed today's testimony. It is nice skipping the commercials. Last Sat. we watched it on the internet. Yeah Linda, we\re gluttons for punishment ehh?


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## Julie

The thing I just can not believe--is today they (the defense) tried to ambush by asking their anthroplogist to testify about the duct tape that was not in any reports or depositions made prior to the prosecution. Yesterday and the night before it was the former jail bird who kidnapped his girlfriend in a domestic dispute back in the 80's. Funny how it turned out----George never called him and it was true,in fact that they had never spoke because it turns out the former jail bird didn't even have that phone number back when Caylee was missing. The defense is just all smoke and mirrors.....and todays testimony was no exception.


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## Julie

I am not sure why--but I do not find Casey's lies impressive at all. In fact--I don't think they even make sense at all. You do Dave? Maybe I am missing hearing of some of them. I had missed the early parts of the pros. case though.

I just find it unbelievable that Casey was molested by her dad,then her brother,the baby's father died.....and then didn't.....it was her brother's and then turns out not to be....then George finds Caylee dead in a swimming pool and has her in his arms only to give the dead body to Kronk who takes it home for awhile or something? and then spreads the decomposing body around in the wooded area close to her house....and all the time she is getting a tattoo and serving shots in a bar,partying with her boyfriend and entering hot body contests,and telling Cindy and George that Caylee is with a nanny? None of that makes sense to me. She is a piece of work.....and hopefully not one God will re-create.

I do not understand women who kill children and never will. There are millions of people who would of given Caylee a safe and loving home if she was such a restraint on Casey's running around and acting like a bimbo. It is just so sad.

What is your guys' take on what really happened?:ear:


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## davetgabby

Julie said:


> The thing I just can not believe--is today they (the defense) tried to ambush by asking their anthroplogist to testify about the duct tape that was not in any reports or depositions made prior to the prosecution. Yesterday and the night before it was the former jail bird who kidnapped his girlfriend in a domestic dispute back in the 80's. Funny how it turned out----George never called him and it was true,in fact that they had never spoke because it turns out the former jail bird didn't even have that phone number back when Caylee was missing. The defense is just all smoke and mirrors.....and todays testimony was no exception.


yeah Julie, I agree. Biaz is pretty shady. The judge will probably sanction him when this is over. Can't do it now ,for fear of jeopardizing Casey's expectation of a fair trial and representation. Yeah the anthropoligist seemed to bolster the prosecution's case LOL. Going to watch the PVR now for todays .


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## Julie

Dave--I must of missed the stories you heard about she told? I missed the first part of the prosecution case. Did they talk about it? Fill me in when you get a chance!


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## dodrop82

I missed the first week or so, too, as I didn't know we had the channels it was on! Dave...how do you watch it on the internet? My son was telling me I should watch it on the internet, and then they wouldn't be cutting away for commercials all the time....Which drives me insane! 
Julie...couldn't have said it better....


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## davetgabby

dodrop82 said:


> I missed the first week or so, too, as I didn't know we had the channels it was on! Dave...how do you watch it on the internet? My son was telling me I should watch it on the internet, and then they wouldn't be cutting away for commercials all the time....Which drives me insane!
> Julie...couldn't have said it better....


Yeah Stacey , here is one site. It throws in the odd commercial but yeah much better than missing half of it on HLN. http://www.wftv.com/caseytriallive1/index.html


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## davetgabby

Julie said:


> I am not sure why--but I do not find Casey's lies impressive at all. In fact--I don't think they even make sense at all. You do Dave? Maybe I am missing hearing of some of them. I had missed the early parts of the pros. case though.
> 
> I just find it unbelievable that Casey was molested by her dad,then her brother,the baby's father died.....and then didn't.....it was her brother's and then turns out not to be....then George finds Caylee dead in a swimming pool and has her in his arms only to give the dead body to Kronk who takes it home for awhile or something? and then spreads the decomposing body around in the wooded area close to her house....and all the time she is getting a tattoo and serving shots in a bar,partying with her boyfriend and entering hot body contests,and telling Cindy and George that Caylee is with a nanny? None of that makes sense to me. She is a piece of work.....and hopefully not one God will re-create.
> 
> I do not understand women who kill children and never will. There are millions of people who would of given Caylee a safe and loving home if she was such a restraint on Casey's running around and acting like a bimbo. It is just so sad.
> 
> What is your guys' take on what really happened?:ear:


No Julie, I don't find her stories believable at all. Not sure what you missed ,but EVERYTHING , AND I MEAN EVERYTHING that she told the police intitally was a lie. That she worked at Disneyland, that she last left Caylee with the nanny at a certain address. Everything was a lie. yeah Kronk never moved the body, He was just stupid and should have insisted on the police investigating when he first thought there might be Caylee's body. He will take a beating cause he was shady . But yeah this item is smoke and mirrors. But you're right CAsey's behavior for those 31 days that Caylee was missing speaks volumes. Even if she had drowned , a mother would not be out partying the day her child went missing or drowned. Pretty sick.


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## Julie

I agree Dave.......I totally agree. Can you imagine duct taping that little girls mouth shut after she was supposed to of drown? Who would do that after she was supposed to be dead? It just makes no sense. And--did you find it odd also that if indeed it was an accident and the defense was going to use drowning as a cause of death---why wouldn't they have asked their experts.....to the autopsy people (both sides)..."is there any way to tell it was an accidental drowning"?.......even knowing the answer is no...because it puts it out there over and over in front of the jury. Also-wouldn't it have made an impact to of had Casey up on the stand,in tears on the 3 yr. anniversary of when her daughter was supposed to of accidentally drown in the family pool? Instead-----there is no mention of it and she sets there with her baboon mug and her bangs hanging down on the sides,much like a mountain goat with an occasional word to the lady on her right. I'd just like to smack her into next week!

I am shocked--absolutely shocked that they haven't made her comb and fix her hair or get a scissors,clean up a bit....because it isn't working as a sympathy ploy. She struts in like a celebrity and has an occasion smirk for the camera. The only day I saw her have any emotion at all was the day the testimony was about an animal chewing on her daughter's leg bone...the same day (I believe) she claimed she was sick and they cut testimony short. I thought she should of been made to actually view all the photos of Caylee and actually see what she has done. (Okay--I'm mean).....but dog gone it! She is a total piece of poop Mom and I hope she feels the full impact of what she has done every minute of every day she is on the planet!

Oh yes---yes Dave....she was full of stories originally about the nanny and the threats and all of that. Evidently she was good enough to have the police and everyone looking high and low for the nanny and Caylee....all the time knowing she was dead. SICK. Just SICK.


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## dodrop82

And how about after her Mom testified the last time and mouthed "I love you" to her, and she curled her lip and rolled her eyes! OH MY GOD! Give me a ball bat!


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## LuckyOne

What channel do you watch this on? I have more free time this week and I have to say it was quite a circus seeing all the people tripping over each other to get into the trial. A woman ran a man over with her wheel chair!


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## dodrop82

HLN and truTV.


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## ItsMare

*Justice for Caylee*

I too have been following this case since the day Caylee went "missing".

I find it amazing how this sociopath has gotten away with all she has in her life before and after Caylee's death.

I have a few burning questions....

Will the Anthony's ever get to give little sweet Caylee's remains a proper burial?

In your opinon do you think that CA killed her intentionally or do you think it was an accident then a cover up (on her part without George)??

Do you think Baez actually believes this story or just had to choose to believe the story because he was committed to the case and trying to get publicity?

Mare


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## Luciledodd

Baez couldn't believe the story. No same person could believe that story. As to putting her on the stand, if the attorney knows that the client is going to lie on the stand, he has to inform the judge--that is why most defendents don't testify. I didn't hear whether the judge has to inform the prosecutor. I don't know what happens to the defence lawyer either. Maybe the judge can have him censored. Course if he puts her on the stand knowing she is lying and doesn't inform the judge, then he could be disbarred. I wish the narrators would get into this more for those of us that want to know.

I haven't seen my nurse since the woman was arrested that killed her little niece. I think she is taking some time off and can't blame her. She had told me that the family was in crisis mode. This woman's trial will be soon probably and won't last over a week at most--small town and public defender--then straight to prison and hopefully death row. Yes I believe in the death penalty. The only thing wrong with it is that it should be swifter, especially in these cases.


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## davetgabby

ItsMare said:


> I too have been following this case since the day Caylee went "missing".
> 
> I find it amazing how this sociopath has gotten away with all she has in her life before and after Caylee's death.
> 
> I have a few burning questions....
> 
> Will the Anthony's ever get to give little sweet Caylee's remains a proper burial?
> 
> In your opinon do you think that CA killed her intentionally or do you think it was an accident then a cover up (on her part without George)??
> 
> Do you think Baez actually believes this story or just had to choose to believe the story because he was committed to the case and trying to get publicity? Should be interesting if she does take the stand. I can just imagine the bull**** detail she will go into when talking about how her father molested her.
> 
> Mare


Not sure , I thought they did finally bury Caylee.??? I think she killed her intentionally, because the experts testified that the duct tape was three layers and it was over her nostrils as well as mouth. Although the experts couldn't find the exact cause of death because of decomposition, the well known expert for the prosecution,figures it would have been asphyxiation from the duct tape. At some point chloroform was probably used as well ,because of the large amount detected in the trunk. Baez probably was told this story by Casey. He would be disbarred if he made it up. But he did promise in his opening statement that " you will hear" ... how this drowning occurred etc. sort of thing. If he doesn't put her on the stand , I don't think his ,or should I say Casey's story has any credibility.


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## ShirleyH

*Motive*

Hi Dave and everyone,

Why do I have this gut feeling that the motive for this horrendous happening has to do with her mother not wanting to let the child be adopted as Casey wanted. Her relationship with her mother is so dysfunctional that it seems she did not want her mother to have the child. Obviously the grandparents would have taken her.

Thoughts?

Shirley


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## Luciledodd

I vote GUILTY!


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## davetgabby

ShirleyH said:


> Hi Dave and everyone,
> 
> Why do I have this gut feeling that the motive for this horrendous happening has to do with her mother not wanting to let the child be adopted as Casey wanted. Her relationship with her mother is so dysfunctional that it seems she did not want her mother to have the child. Obviously the grandparents would have taken her.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Shirley


yeah Shirley, I think you're right. I'm hardly a phycologist but there seems to be some jealousy. It's been mentioned by some of the shrinks that Casey is so used to being the centre of her parents attention , that when Caylee came along that changed. It seems like the grandparents did the majority of bringing Caylee up . Definitely dysfunctional family. This one's going to be a movie.


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## davetgabby

Luciledodd said:


> I vote GUILTY!


Likewise Lucile.


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## ShirleyH

*Motive*

Dave and Lucille,

I'm wondering if the prosecution will bring this possible motive up in closing arguments. At any rate, this is a perfect 'how not to raise your child' scenario.

Shirley


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## davetgabby

I think they might. But ,it's really not their burden to prove motive. Although some say they should almost , in order to get the death penalty conviction. I think they might just leave it up for the jury to decide. They've already shown huge amounts of evidence to show that Caylee interfered with her lifestyle. And apparently there was supposedly a big fight between Casey and her mother the night before they last saw Caylee. This hasn't been mentioned yet by the prosecution and I'm not sure why. Supposedly it was to the point that Cindy was choking her. But I think the motive was freedom from responsibility basically. Shows how experts can dig into hard drives and retrieve so called deleted searches. The expert computer guy ,actually from good ole Canada , retrieved 84 searches on how to make chloroform , neck breaking ,shovel . Interesting ,because there were hundreds if not thousands of Internet searches on the computer that were not deleted from the history, but these were the only ones that she tried to delete. So even if you think you've deleted something on your computer , the experts can still retrieve it.


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## dodrop82

Dave, my son has predicted a movie as well...he also predicts the name of the movie will be 31 Days...I think he could be right....


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## ShirleyH

*Today*

Hi Dave,

Today will be interesting at the trial. I'll be watching on and off since Keeper will be neutered today and we'll be nervous until it's over and he's okay.

I think the prosecution must provide a motive--too big a quesion to leave unanswered.

Shirley


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## Luciledodd

Just watched the judge read the riot act to the defence attorney. Love it. Guilty, Guilty Guilty. We need a poll going.


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## dodrop82

Good idea, Lucile!


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## Luciledodd

Probably won't get any not-guilty votes because those of us that think she is guilty are also very vocal. Luckily though, we can't kill each other over the internet. lol


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## dodrop82

Well, whoopty-doo! Another day that I got nothin' goin' on and can watch the trial, and looky what we got! NUTTIN'!!! So the next two days should be VERY good for those of you who can watch, cause I gotta work and won't be able to watch...that's when the interesting stuff goes on! Stupid Defense lawyer who won't follow the rules!!!


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## Kathie

I haven't been watching but we saw a clip talking about the autopsy and the fact that the medical examiner never did an autopsy of the head. Why not? Wouldn't that show if she could have possibly had an anuerism (sp?) or something like that?


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## dodrop82

No Kathy, everything was decomposed and gone from inside the skull by that time. And the first medical examiner simply looked inside the skull from the hole on the bottom of the skull. The medical examiner for the defense said "You can only examine the inside of the skull by cutting the top of the skull off.


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## Luciledodd

And the mandible (jaw and bottom teeth) was not connected, so big hole to look in. Why cut off the top of the skull? The defence examiner was reaching for anything he could to call into question the first autoposy


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## Kathie

This was my first day to try to watch and discovered they were dismissed until tomorrow!


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## davetgabby

Yeah ,just heard the judge tore a strip off Baez' hide. His witness didn't show up , so nothing today. As far as the skull goes, I think the pros. expert will be called back to say there was no point in cutting the skull in half. Actulally Lucile, the lower jaw /mandible was still in anotomical correct position because the duct tape was holding it in place. Norallly they separate . THis was critical evidence for the pros. because it was proof that the duct tape was placed on at the time of death and not later by Kronk or someone else. Yep give em six months and the movie will be out. LOL. See yall tomorrow.


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## Luciledodd

Just think how smart we all will be when this trial is over. I will be able to get a degree in forencis (well maybe if I could spell it) and then criminal law. Botany and all sorts of things. We should have someone test us so we can get certified as experts then in our next lives we can do that for a living--not.


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## davetgabby

Lucile , we could open our own law office. LOL


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## davetgabby

Today it sounded like the defences witness bolstered the pros. case.


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## Julie

I missed bits and pieces the last couple of days,but got caught up on it now. I even got to see the prosecution's opening statement! 

Anyway--was that botany expert a joke or was it just me? She seemed to have no credibility and the more she argued and struggled to answer the defense's cross questions,the more credibility she lost IMO. Her idea that the skull could have plants growing through it,leaf litter and humus in 2 weeks defies logic! Not to mention her coyote/dog burying comment about Caylee's hip bone being 4" deep in the ground. UGH!

I am just amazed at the defense witnesses.....given Baez's track record and how great the prosecution is at cross....he should just set down and call some dumb butt he can hire that will give him info and jargon of some sort on drowning. That was their theory anyway? hahahaha

Also--something else comes to mind---after hearing Baez's opening statements and hearing this story of how she drown and stuff....that actually seemed plausible. The pool ladder was accidently left down,Caylee climbed in and drown while Casey and George were sleeping and Cindy was at work. I could believe that......IF......IF.....she had not involved George and then had the coverup. The problems are huge to me with their accidental drowning theory. First--why would you duck tape Caylee's nose and mouth after death? If it was a creepy thing like imagining bugs crawling in there and eating her or something....she should of duct taped the ear openings,vaginal/anal area as well etc. Then..if George really loved Caylee and Casey too as has been brought forward and witnessed IMO,by George....would you dispose of someone you deeply loved in the woods and haul them around in your car trunk for awhile first? Who would do that? If you love someone....you want respect for their body....not bugs and animals eating it like a carcus of road kill.Then there is the whole Kronk thing--which is a joke IMO. Who would keep anyone's body as it decomposed and after it was just a skeleton.....pick it up and throw it around a wooded area,digging part of the bones into the ground? If they actually find someone on this planet who will hold dead bodies as they decompose and haul them around and stuff.......they could probably have a lucrative business as murderers everywhere will be lined up. Isn't that the hard part? Getting rid of bodies? Decomposing ones have landed many murderers in prison if I recall.

My theory is this----I think Cindy and Casey had some anamosity between them and I think George was stuck in the middle. I think much of it came from Casey's irresponsible behavior in caring for Caylee. So many young mother's do not want to be tied down and perhaps Casey was no different and it irked Cindy (rightly so IMO). They argued and Casey took Caylee and left. I believe Casey was using something on Caylee to make her sleep more and not interfere with her partying/boyfriend stuff. I think it was probably Zanax to begin with and her boyfriend or ex-boyfriend? had heard about cloroform and Casey investigated that and used it. I believe she used cloroform on Caylee many times myself and nothing happened and she thought probably nothing would. Then....she used more or made it wrong or whatever and she died. I believe the duct tape was used on certain occasions when she needed Caylee to be extra quiet. Perhaps someone doped up on zanax or cloroform moans or snores or something? This is just what I think happened.

Oh--and the other thing that made no sense was in Baez's opening statement he said that George said "your mother will never forgive you--you will go to prison for the rest of your life for this". If it really had in fact been an accident....I think George would of made her come forward because the worst case scenero would of been manslaughter or something. Uhm.........is this a better option? Try covering up an accident and be up for murder 1 and the death penalty? Stupid. If George and Casey had such a great cover up and stuff.....why would he not come forward now and tell the truth? Why lie now and het her ash closer to the electric chair? I say because he was not involved and is dam tired of her crap. He knows she had to of been responsible for his grand daughter's death. Otherwise---I think as parents you would do what you could to keep your kid from death row.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Where are you watching this on tv? Is it on Direct TV? How much is left? Interesting. I think a Mother will always try to save her daughter, even if the daughter has murdered the grand daughter..A mother's love is beyond explanation IMHO...A father may be a bit protective of the Mother and of the Grand daughter...when he sees the daughter as damaging both the mother's life and killing the grand daughter...
Think you are right Julie...
Just glad I don't have to live with this...except as an observer..


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## davetgabby

I agree with most of what you are saying Julie. I think she eventually wanted to murder her though. If the duct tape was just over the mouth ,that could have meant that it was an accident and that perhaps the choroform accidentally killed her. But with it over her nostrils and three layers , that goes to premeditation. IMO Should be interesting to see if George's so called misstress is allowed to testify. She apparently is a shady character.


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## Julie

@Flynn--I am watching it on TRU tv channel 41 during the am and 
channel 61 here--in the afternoons/evenings. Channel 61 is HLN 

Channel 41 used to be Court TV and I LOVED it! Now some of those same commentators from Court TV host these 2.

Vinnie Politan, and gavel coverage from Jane Caserous and Beth Karas. I have watched all of these people for years! (I am a court room junkie I think). I watched many many trials on the old Court TV. Including parts of Jeffrey Dommer<sp , the trial of the wierd-o (Bardo)that killed a young actress (Rebecca Shaffer), OJ Simpson,the molestation trial of Michial Jackson,the double murder in the case of Betty Broderick(she killed her ex husband and his new lover),the trial of the man in California who took the little girl scout (neighbor) and drove her into the desert,raped and killed her with a motor home, and many others.Oh--his name was David Westerfield.


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## Julie

davetgabby said:


> I agree with most of what you are saying Julie. I think she eventually wanted to murder her though. If the duct tape was just over the mouth ,that could have meant that it was an accident and that perhaps the choroform accidentally killed her. But with it over her nostrils and three layers , that goes to premeditation. IMO Should be interesting to see if George's so called misstress is allowed to testify. She apparently is a shady character.


Yeah Dave--I'm just not sure whether Casey's intent was there or not. I guess maybe I haven't made up my mind on intent yet. I have no doubt she is responsible for Caylee's death...but not sure about the intent. If that duct tape was over the mouth and nose....then for certain intent would be there. I had seen that the duct tape fit over both--but had not seen proof that it actually was there and chances are we will never know. The 3 pieces seem like over kill..although I found the heart sticker residue fascinating.

I saw the tv interview done with the so-called mistress. ound: Geez....what next?


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## davetgabby

Yeah Julie, I am really intrigued by Leonard Padilla's claims on HLN. , the bounty hunter. He claims adamantly that Kronk knew approximately where Kaylee was buried beforehand. He says that Kronk's girlfriend who worked at the jail where Casey was being held, overheard illegally conversation between Casey and Baez stating where Kaylee was buried. Leonard never wavers from this. Anyway I'm off camping for three days so keep this rolling till I get back .LOL No internet or tv where I'm going darn. LOL


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Wow, you surely are a courtroom junkie. I like to watch, but hated it when I had to testify as to the evidence, photos, crime scene processing when I worked with the police dept. It was usually years after the fact, and of course you were supposed to remember everything vividly..and heaven help you if you did not..thank goodness for good States Attys who could give you a chance to clarify things after the first go round...a good attorney can make anyone sound right or wrong... Thanks for the info on the channels...not sure if I get them, will look and see...


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## Julie

Will do Dave! :thumb:

Flynn-I didn't know you did that! How cool is that??!!! I say.....WOO-HOO! That is super cool and yeah-I can imagine that testifying is or can be quite the ordeal. After seeing it so many times now,I think I would always say....well can I refer back to my notes? hahahaha


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## Julie

Last word out tonight as a breaking story was:

The attourney for the Anthony parents (George and Cindy) say they DO BELIEVE that Casey did something to Caylee and they all (her brother Lee as well) are just hoping she doesn't get the death penalty. Can you imagine how horrible it must be to actually think your own kid is guilty of killing your grand daughter? That must be so painful and just so heart wrenching on the entire family. I really feel for them.

Cindy Anthony is scheduled to testify tomorrow. She is being called as a defense witness.This should be interesting-------


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## Julie

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Wow, you surely are a courtroom junkie.


When Robbie was little we could not take him anywhere or expose him to germs. We spent allot of time in the house and although it sounds like I spent it in front of a TV....it actually was on as a back ground filler...and I'd hear something that caught my attention and look. I have always loved this real life court stuff. I think I missed my calling....I was probably meant to of been a prosecutor!

Thinking back on some of the cases I have watched......I remember a trial out of Texas where an adult son was accused of pushing his rich mother down the stairs I believe in anger over money and killed her. That was the first time that I had seen a computer generated mock up of what allegedly happened and found that fascinating. Unfortunately I do not remember the names involved,but thought maybe you would of remembered it?:ear:

I also followed the case of Lacey Peterson very very closely and also the Mendenez brothers(Eric and Lyle) who killed their parents.....I'm sure you all remember these 2 cases.


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## Luciledodd

This is the first one I have watched since the OJ trial. And since I have found the live stream on my computer, I am enjoying it more. the TV just breaks in with the commercials at the most inconvenient times. I don't remember that in the OJ trial. I think the ads were only when there was nothing going on or at a recess. Course there was no court tv then. and that was the trial that made Greta Van Sustran (sp). As I remember it, the jury was only out a few minutes--big shocker. 

I will always love my children no matter what they do, but I don't have to like them. I can't imagine what I would do if one of them killed a grandchild.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Yes, for Orlando Police Dept...at first it was exciting and I would tell my children everything, then as Orlando and crime grew, it got to be very challenging and not something I wanted to talk about or they wanted to hear. When you work in that, after a while you only look at what you can do to help from that point on. The cases I found most difficult, animal abuse, child and elder abuse...to this day those three make no sense at all to me..such useless cruelty..
At least there is always something left behind to reveal the truth..We really do leave a trace of ourselves everywhere we go..


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## Kathie

Where did you find it online, Lucile?


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Julie said:


> Last word out tonight as a breaking story was:
> 
> The attourney for the Anthony parents (George and Cindy) say they DO BELIEVE that Casey did something to Caylee and they all (her brother Lee as well) are just hoping she doesn't get the death penalty. Can you imagine how horrible it must be to actually think your own kid is guilty of killing your grand daughter? That must be so painful and just so heart wrenching on the entire family. I really feel for them.
> 
> Cindy Anthony is scheduled to testify tomorrow. She is being called as a defense witness.This should be interesting-------


My fear in a case like this is that even if she gets life in prision, so many rules change, so many are granted early releases, for so many reasons...mostly the state cannot afford the prisions..and what she could do again..
I just wonder if she is one of these people without a soul?


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## JCChaplin

I just saw this thread and I have to comment! Am I the only one who thinks it's very strange that Caylee was missing for an entire month and Caseys parents didn't call the police? If I told my mother for over a month that one of my kids, who she sees regularly, was missing or away with some babysitter who I was unable to reach she would be calling the police ASAP!. Also, George Anthony was a police officer so why would a police officer buy all these stories for a month? I suspect that there are some skeletons in the closet in that family. I think Casey did kill Caylee, but I also think there was something strange going on with the parents. Anybody else agree?


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## Julie

I think it is wierd too.....the 31 days is very very telling,but I feel reflects more on the mother (Casey) then on George and Cindy. It is my understanding Casey made up different scenerios as to where Caylee was to them. Beach,nanny etc. It was said last night on tv that George was said to of pinned Casey against the wall and started choking her to tell them the truth about where Caylee was. Somehow-I know if that was me and my house---that would happen and so I believe that is highly possible although it has not been confirmed.

The testimony today that Cindy gave about her doing the searches for choloform actually while she was at work....makes me lose all credibility in Cindy. I think she is lying through her teeth.


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## Julie

I'm just curious if there is anyone out there that believes Cindy Anthony's testimony about her doing the searches for chloroform/chorofphyl <sp (sorry) because she was worried about a sleepy yorkie puppy eating bamboo? Do you all believe any of that? Wouldn't a normal google search,if you were concerned be a search for bamboo or ????

I think she is lying through her teeth now and it is frustrating to me. I think she should be prosecuted for purjury.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Does not make sense to me either Julie!


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## Luciledodd

Julie I confess that I typed in how to make chloroform before. Seems that I have all the makings. DH better be good to me. lol. Anyway after Cindy testified yesterday, I typed in chlorophyll and low and behold one of the answers in the search was chloroform. I suspicion that it was included in the search answer because of my previous search but don't know. Now I will have to try the search on another computor or maybe you could try on yours. It has to be a google search. I do believe that Cindy would do anything to keep her daughter out of the death penalty.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Luciledodd said:


> Julie I confess that I typed in how to make chloroform before. Seems that I have all the makings. DH better be good to me. lol. Anyway after Cindy testified yesterday, I typed in chlorophyll and low and behold one of the answers in the search was chloroform. I suspicion that it was included in the search answer because of my previous search but don't know. Now I will have to try the search on another computor or maybe you could try on yours. It has to be a google search. I do believe that Cindy would do anything to keep her daughter out of the death penalty.


That is one of my pet peeves with Google, no matter what YOU type in it wants to give you all sorts of suggestions and substitutions...I have NO doubt it did the same to her..I just doubt her reasons..


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## ShirleyH

Someone PLEASE enlighten me on the chloroform and chlorophyll search. Chlorophyll is a natural substance found in all plants--it ain't gonna poison your dog. If you were concerned about something in the yard, wouldn't you google a specific plant, hibiscus, bamboo or something. Where does a chloroform search fit in this dogs-in-the-yard picture and who would believe that???? Searched 84 times????? PUH-LEESE. This is not going to convince a jury.

Shirley


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## Julie

It certainly doesn't convince me Shirley! I would think if she were a nurse (as said) she would be a bit....uhm....smarter then she is coming off on the stand. As a nurse,wouldn't you have some knowledge of what things are toxic to a child (as she testified to) and also if she had any worries about the yorkie...why not call the vet? It doesn't hurt to call and is free. Otherwise....my google search would be for "plants toxic to dogs" or "bamboo" or whatever. Certainly not 84 searches of chloform or clorophyll.......and you know what else? Maybe I'll learn how to spell these 2 words properly by the time Casey's jury comes back with a verdict! hahahahaha


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## Julie

Just out of curosity........do any of you remember a pop up on google you saw from 3 years ago? Do any of you remember a specific stain in a car trunk that you bought 11 years ago? This is so unbelievable it defies logic!


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## davetgabby

Julie said:


> I think it is wierd too.....the 31 days is very very telling,but I feel reflects more on the mother (Casey) then on George and Cindy. It is my understanding Casey made up different scenerios as to where Caylee was to them. Beach,nanny etc. It was said last night on tv that George was said to of pinned Casey against the wall and started choking her to tell them the truth about where Caylee was. Somehow-I know if that was me and my house---that would happen and so I believe that is highly possible although it has not been confirmed.
> 
> The testimony today that Cindy gave about her doing the searches for choloform actually while she was at work....makes me lose all credibility in Cindy. I think she is lying through her teeth.


Well I raced like hell to get home .LOL. Julie, we just saw a bit of Cindy's testimony before we left. I don't think she testified that she searched for Choroform but Chlorophyl for her dog LOL. She definitely is siding with her daughter. She said that even though the work history showed she was working when the search for chloroporm was done , that sometimes the work records are not always acccurate. LOL Give me a break. Yeah she pisses me off too. so Saturdaay's testimony got cancelled , sound s like something major is up. ???


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## Julie

Oh yeah Dave....she said both,because one lead to the other. (cholorform/chorolophyll) and all because she thought her yorkie was getting sleepy from eating bamboo. She admitted to searching for many other substances as well...but would NOT admit to searching "how to make chloroform or household weapons". She was lying like a rug and it seemed so incredible to me. Did you see Casey's face during her testimony? All kinda smilie and "interested" acting. uke:

Lee's testimony threw me for a loop. He cried on the stand about not being involved in Casey's pregnancy. I found that odd myself. Casey cried allot during this testimony as well as Lee. Something is not quite right about those two. I don't believe "normal" brothers would really care that much to cry about his sister being pregnant and "not in the loop". WHO CARES? When the baby comes...he'll see it,right? STRANGE. 

You didn't miss that much Dave....hopefully tomorrow will be a good full day. I have no idea what the bombshell will be come tomorrow am. Something is up and I bet that judge is livid! 

Oh--I think I may know what Lee meant at the memorial service they talked about (not in court-but on tv)....he said C.M.A. ---C.M.A.
I had training in management years ago and the first thing they taught me was CYA.(cover your ash)..meaning make sure you have things documented etc.
Do you think it is possible that the Anthony's have a CMA pact--(cover my ash)?

I happen to believe that Lee knew Casey killed that baby. I think she confided in him about the cloroform. Opinions?


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## davetgabby

I agree Julie ,I think they've made a pact to cover up the motive and so called dysfunctional family B.S. Total lies out of both of them especially Cindy. Cindy should be charged with perjury. If she would have done these searches she would have mentioned them a lot earlier in this case. Because that was the pros. evidence from day one as to premeditation. And suddenly she remembers finding the pool ladder was found up and she was so concerned that she called George at work. Meanwhile the pros. asked her how she phoned ,with a home base or cell she wasn't sure. Yeah. Anywho, waiting to see what the big deal for Saturday's cancelation was. ??/See ya tomorrow.


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## Julie

I hope you are watching Dave!!!!
Today has been unbelievable!!!

Cindy testifies,Lee counterdicts her,George is asked about the mistress (did you believe this testimony?) and now Roy Kronk.

Kronk is just part way through his testimony,but so far,he does not seem like the total knot head I thought he was and I believe him---at least so far. He has made a good witness I think.

George answered his questions about the mistress very defensively. I actually think he did mess with River...but I do not believe he told her it was an accident that snowballed out of control.

The testimony of the PI's and that video I saw yesterday----------shows how truly sick some people are! Can you imagine video taping and trying to sell it to make a profit off of a dead little girl? That's terrible.

Something is fishy----how would Cindy or anyone except Casey know where she put the body? If Cindy or George knew she was dead--I don't think they would of continued to look and spend money to find her.....not to mention the fact that neither would let their grand daughter lay decaying in the woods.Wouldn't she of had a proper burial? Just saying~~~


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## davetgabby

Julie said:


> I hope you are watching Dave!!!!
> Today has been unbelievable!!!
> 
> Cindy testifies,Lee counterdicts her,George is asked about the mistress (did you believe this testimony?) and now Roy Kronk.
> 
> Kronk is just part way through his testimony,but so far,he does not seem like the total knot head I thought he was and I believe him---at least so far. He has made a good witness I think.
> 
> George answered his questions about the mistress very defensively. I actually think he did mess with River...but I do not believe he told her it was an accident that snowballed out of control.
> 
> The testimony of the PI's and that video I saw yesterday----------shows how truly sick some people are! Can you imagine video taping and trying to sell it to make a profit off of a dead little girl? That's terrible.
> 
> Something is fishy----how would Cindy or anyone except Casey know where she put the body? If Cindy or George knew she was dead--I don't think they would of continued to look and spend money to find her.....not to mention the fact that neither would let their grand daughter lay decaying in the woods.Wouldn't she of had a proper burial? Just saying~~~


Yeah I just got home from work catching the news , replays and Gwen's updates. She watched most of the day except for a dr.s appointment. I would tend to agree that George doesn't look one hundred per cent innocent. But this River Cruse is a shady character too. The Pi's didn't show that they were in the correct area of the body. So their points are mute. Not sure why everyone was searching there but for the simple fact that it's the only bush near the Anthony home. Kronk apparently held up pretty well. He was supposed to be a key defense witness but this sounds like it didn't prove anything. How about that inquiry into Caseys sanity by three shrinks. She\s sane I guess , just evil. Now for the next four hours I'''ll see the repays on HLN.


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## Julie

I agree Dave~


I am watching George Anthony this am on the stand and I think Casey has reached an all time low. I can not imagine treating my father like that (the accusations and all) and for me~ I would never have allowed my attorney to disrespect my dad like that. The fact that she would like to have her dad in prison for her actions totally makes me want to puke.uke: AND--they claim George threw HER under the bus. HOW DISGUSTING.uke:uke:

I think that "b" is very lucky neither of us are on her jury.


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## HavaneseSoon

op2: I admit, I am hooked. What a day of testimony!


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## davetgabby

Yeah, I've just soaked in most of the highlights on HLN. George came across as very compelling testimony for the prosecution. Listening to the experts on HLN. they all agree today's testimony was devastating for the defense. Sounds like the defence might rest tomorrow. I don't think Casey is going to testify, as they said they will rest tomorrow. ???? I'm worried about missing this. We're heading camping Sunday. I do want to see the pros. coming back to tie this all up after all the BS. the defence put out.


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## HavaneseSoon

Testimony went very close to 5:30pm. George's mistress is suppose to be testifying tomorrow. 

I feel like the Defense is scrambling and wasting time. George's testimony was very emotional and real. Casey was unemotional as usual until the "Grief Expert" took the stand.


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## davetgabby

HavaneseSoon said:


> Testimony went very close to 5:30pm. George's mistress is suppose to be testifying tomorrow.
> 
> I feel like the Defense is scrambling and wasting time. George's testimony was very emotional and real. Casey was unemotional as usual until the "Grief Expert" took the stand.


yep, Linda , I totally agree.


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## HavaneseSoon

Ok......Casey does not take the stand. Lots of skeltons in this family's closet. 

I can believe this child drown (Tragic accidental drowning), I can believe Casey was sexual molested by her (brother)...and baby could.......be brother's child. I can believe the father lied and tried to cover up. I can also believe Crock moved the remains. 

I can also believe Casey is young and would hope everything would go away. 

BUT............I can't BELIEVE they waited 31 days to report this child was missing!


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## davetgabby

HavaneseSoon said:


> Ok......Casey does not take the stand. Lots of skeltons in this family's closet.
> 
> I can believe this child drown (Tragic accidental drowning), I can believe Casey was sexual molested by her (brother)...and baby could.......be brother's child. I can believe the father lied and tried to cover up. I can also believe Crock moved the remains.
> 
> I can also believe Casey is young and would hope everything would go away.
> 
> BUT............I can't BELIEVE they waited 31 days to report this child was missing!


Hi Linda, No way Caylee drowned. They would not be going through all this if it was an accident. George would have reported it. The worst thing that would have happened if it was an accident is that they would have felt guilty for being careless. The police probably would not have laid serious charges. These drowning things happen all the time and quite oftern no charges are laid. The punishment is living with your own guilt. I think it's possible Lee tried to molest her. Who knows , he was never ASKED about it????? I doubt George molested her. Caylee was not Lee 's daughter. FBI did a paternity test on him. The posibe father was killed in a car accident if you watch Nancy Grace ,the mother to this young man believes her son is Caylees. father. This is just breaking this story. I think Georg was lying about this affair this River Criuse seems credible to me. Too many text messages going on here. Only one of many was released in testimony today. She just was on Vinny's show HLN a minute ago , and does seem credible. Anyway the defence ended with a fizzle. prosecution closing statements tomorrow. should be interesting . They better answer some of the sticking points. I never have confidence in a juror. It only takes one to throw a monkey wrench into all this.


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## pjewel

Casey Anthony murdered her child and is able to compartmentalize it because she's a sociopath. In her little universe, the world revolves around her and everyone else is a supporting player and of little consequence, save for their relationship to her. She, and her like, make me sick. She is in desperate need of a soul. All the machinations of the defense to try to deflect from that fact are falling far short of their target. It seems to me their witnesses have helped the prosecution far more than the defense.


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## davetgabby

Well said Geri, my sentiments exactly.


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## HavaneseSoon

What do you think about the suicide letter from George. It was read on a TV show today. George is hiding something. I believe he had an affair.


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## davetgabby

Yeah Linda, I agree more now that he lied about the affair. I think his suicide letter helped the pros. case because it showed nothing indicating his guilt about Kaylee's death. The defence actually didn't want it brought into court. They accidently asked something about it and it opened the door for the pros. to bring it in. THe problem with his lying is that the jury is always instructed that if you find something untruthful with someone's testimony ,you can choose to disregard all or part of their testimony. He should have admitted to it. The problem with it was that River Cruise was unsure as to his exact words about "this was an accident that snowballed out of control". His testimony was " that it had to be an accident .... " meaning that he thought it was his opinion that Casey had to have killed Caylee accidentally. Big difference. I'm waiting for tomorrow when the pros. will be trying to impeach Cindy's testamony about doing the computer search about choroform. They will be bringing in a person from Cindy's work showing she was at work when the search was done. She's lying through her teeth.


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## Julie

I thought the defense case was a joke. I wouldn't hire that Jose Baez to walk me across the darn street. He is a joke....and with that dumb butt as her attorney,Casey didn't have a chance. Not that she deserves one.

I still think Casey is guilty as hel for killing Caylee. I do believe it actually is possible it was an accident.....I think she used cholorform on that little girl as a babysitter so she could run around and enter hot body contests and all that stupid stuff she did. I think she used duct tape to silence any muffled sounds and it ended up suffocating the little girl....or she used choloform and did something wrong---used too much or something and the little girl died. Duct tape or not-----she was responsible for the death of that baby. I think she panicked and didn't know what to do.She stuck her in her car trunk or Caylee was already there.....she started stinking and I think she wrapped her in her winnie the pooh blanket and bagged her up and THEN FOR CERTAIN used duct tape to secure the body before finally deciding to dump the body in the woods,a familiar place to her as a teen.The duct tape could of shifted and re-attached to the skull with hurricane Faye and as the animals dug around and also through decomposition.The duct tape I see as a contributing factor---but to me,the real killer was the cholorform.<--notice I still can not spell it,so I won't be doing any google searches for it! ound: Let alone 84 times! 

I do not believe George had anything to do with it at all and I believe him completely with the exception of having an affair with River. I think he did and doesn't want to admit it because of Cindy and actually----I don't blame him. It's not like most men tell of their affairs....the ones I have heard about always get "caught".....they don't "tell". To me--that is normal behavior for general society.

I do not think Lee molested Casey--but there may be something kinda funky between them. Lee seems pretty emotional for a normal brother/sister relationship.

Cindy has lied to help Casey-----but we find out more about that tomorrow in the rebuttal case.

I just think that Casey is a real piece of work and I think this time she told a bunch of lies and her lawyers were stuck trying to defend her lies....even though NONE of that crap made sense. Jose Baez was totally incompenant and should of set her butt down and actually told her...uhm.....look.....your lies aren't gonna work here with nothing to back them up....give me something else....next....next....next....no,seriously.....something that makes sense we can actually show in court. Instead--nothing. She would of been better off to take a plea.

My gut says she will be convicted of 2nd degree murder and all those other charges she will found guilty of. She will NOT get convicted of the top charge,and will not get the death penalty.

What do you all think? Anyone think she'll walk?:ear:


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## pjewel

I don't think she'll walk and I agree, I don't think she'll get the death penalty. Where I disagree with you is I do believe it was premeditated murder and somewhere in all this is Casey's very disfunctional relationship with her mother. As for George, he breaks my heart. I do believe his thoughts of suicide and the letter he wrote, had more to do with his inability to live with himself, feeling he had let Caylee down and not been her protector. 

I also think the truth about "the affair" lies somewhere between what he said and she said. I think Kristal (whatshername) took advantage of a devastating situation and wormed her way into his life in search of something . . . perhaps her fifteen minutes of fame, perhaps something else self serving.


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## davetgabby

yeah Julie, that pretty much is my feeling too. I think they might convict of accidental ,but in Florida even if you accidenally kill someone under these sort of circumstances you still can get first degree murder. It's still somewhat confusing. I don't think she 'lll get the death penalty. How about that spectator flippin the bird to the pros. ??ound: He got six days in jail for contempt. Apparently ,had this been done with the jury present and say it was to the defence attorney., It could have been cause for a mistrial. Can you imagine that. That kid would have had to go into hiding after he got out of jail. LOL


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## davetgabby

Yeah Geri , I'll go with that too.


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## dodrop82

I pretty much agree with everything Julie thinks, altho Geri could be right about the premeditation....and I also agree with Geri on that skanky Ho...don't believe she's telling total truth, nor is George...And as for that bird flipper...what's he flippin off the prosecuting attorney for?!? What is he...a friend of "TOT MOM"??? And by the way...I can't wait til this trial is over so I never have to see Nancy Grace ever again. She is nothin' more then a walkin' talkin' Tabloid! Yuck.


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## Julie

Stacey! ound: Nancy Grace has gotten to you huh? :couch2:
She is definitely over bearing....or can be. Actually---I love to watch Ryan or Vinnie Politan. They are more..uhm....streamlined?:becky:

My husband is VERY sick of Nancy Grace as well.....He is tired of me watching this trial all together I think!:wink:


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## Julie

pjewel said:


> I don't think she'll walk and I agree, I don't think she'll get the death penalty. Where I disagree with you is I do believe it was premeditated murder and somewhere in all this is Casey's very disfunctional relationship with her mother. As for George, he breaks my heart. I do believe his thoughts of suicide and the letter he wrote, had more to do with his inability to live with himself, feeling he had let Caylee down and not been her protector.
> 
> I also think the truth about "the affair" lies somewhere between what he said and she said. I think Kristal (whatshername) took advantage of a devastating situation and wormed her way into his life in search of something . . . perhaps her fifteen minutes of fame, perhaps something else self serving.


You may very well be right Geri. The only thing I wonder about is what the jury thinks. If they have any doubt what-so-ever about the premediation,I think they'll go for 2nd degree.

George broke my heart yesterday crying on the stand. I have to admit,he made me cry. That was heart breaking to watch......I can not imagine anyone doubting his love for Caylee. That's for sure.


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## Julie

davetgabby said:


> yeah Julie, that pretty much is my feeling too. I think they might convict of accidental ,but in Florida even if you accidenally kill someone under these sort of circumstances you still can get first degree murder. It's still somewhat confusing. I don't think she 'lll get the death penalty. How about that spectator flippin the bird to the pros. ??ound: He got six days in jail for contempt. Apparently ,had this been done with the jury present and say it was to the defence attorney., It could have been cause for a mistrial. Can you imagine that. That kid would have had to go into hiding after he got out of jail. LOL


I didn't realize that Florida law was like that Dave. No wonder they have her up for the death penalty then. I have heard chatter many people didn't think this was a death penalty case...but if that's the case in Florida,then that makes sense they'd go for death.

I couldn't believe that dumb butt who flipped off the pros.......and I have to say----it tickled the crap out of me to see the judge go after the young puke and throw the book at him. That judge is a bad ash isn't he? I mean really--he doesn't take any crap at all. :thumb: When he puckers up his chubby cheeks and lips.....he is carefully wording a bitch slapping! ound: Don't you just know this guy would kick Jose Baez and Casey in the ash if he could? ound:


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## Julie

dodrop82 said:


> ...and I also agree with Geri on that skanky Ho...


ound: I LOVE THE WAY YOU THINK! ound:
You can certainly tell we are Iowa girls! Call it as we see it. I thought the exact same thing. I wondered what the heck she did for a job that she could afford to give George almost 4000.00? WTF? I THINK NOT. She may have fooled around with him a bit....but ???? Vinnie Politan confronted her with....it's like you were paying him for sex? I almost spit out my drink!eace:VINNIEeace:


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## davetgabby

Yeah Nancy can be a jerk at times. But darn :frusty: today Im off work ., Canada Day holiday. and the case if closed indefinitely because defence want times to proffer the pros rebuttal witnesses.


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## pjewel

Judge Perry gave the defense time to depose any witnesses involved in the rebuttal and sent the jury back to the hotel, rather than keep them holed up in the jury room. He said they would work all through the holiday weekend to complete this case.


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## Julie

I find it very frustrating how the prosc. must now wait on ice --yet again--for this stupid defense team. Good Lord! Why in the hel didn't they proffer yesterday,knowing dam well the rebuttal was going to start today.

By the way--did you see how Jose Baez acted....rolling eyes and clearly patronizing behavior when the judge told him he could take as much time as he wanted,but remember the jury and that this better not be an imaginary problem. That clearly pissed Baez off and he acted like Casey,or like that dumb kid who flipped the finger. Why didn't Baez get a bitch slapping from the judge over that? Do lawyers get a free pass to act like that?


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## davetgabby

Well quite the day. Cindy should be charged with perjury. It's obvious with all the records produced that she was at work the day she said she did the chloroform search on the home computer. And this one I anticipated , she also lied about phoning George at work when she claims she found the pool ladder up on the pool. At the time she said this on the stand , I said to myself , I hope she's not lying because phone records can prove or disprove this in short order. And they did. What a moron as well as a liar. I'm probably going to miss the conclusion statements and verdict possibly because we're off camping Sunday for a week. :frusty:


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## Luciledodd

Dave, I am not surprised by the outcome. Poor Cindy's goose is cooked. She will be mighty lucky not to be charged with perjury. I am like you, I knew that everything she said could be checked. But, most people are just not smart enough to think through everything. I believe that there are juryers on that jury that will vote not guilty. And most of the women commentarors seem to think that George had the affair with that woman River Cruise. I on the other hand think that she just did it for money her story to the Enquirer was probably worth more if she said they were having an affair. Boy, I can't believe that I just said that. I am usually the one that thinks the man is fooling around. What I do think if that he was so devastated that he sought comfort from whereever he could get it and may have sent the wrong signal to "River". If it takes the jury longer to come back with a verdict than it did with the OJ trial it will surprise me.


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## davetgabby

Lucile, I can't figure out how stupid Cindy was making these claims , now the premeditation is back in the spotlight. George should have admitted to this affair, but maybe ,like us he believes Cindy is stupid.


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## dodrop82

Oh no, Dave! I missed all of today's stuff, but DVR'd it all and am now trying to catch up on it all. But I figured the work records were gonna show she was at work, considering how hard Baez tried to stop it from being admitted into evidence! 
Julie, I think the judge didn't didn't see Baez's eye rolling and bitching, and that's why he didn't put the smack down on him....otherwise he wouldn't have hesitated. I adore the judge! 
And am I getting it right? No court tomorrow? Nothing until Sunday morning?


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## Luciledodd

Dave, back when the TV series West Wing was on, my daughter with 165 IQ stated that most of the people in the Walmart probably thought that Martin Sheen was President. I laughed at the time; but you know most people are just average IQ and they don't think through the whole scenario. And a whole lot of the average Joes on the street can't answer the simplest questions about our President or elected officials--but they can say Bush went to war for oil or the Republicans are going to take our social security. Course they never reason out that if we got all that oil, we wouldn't have to be paying such a high price for it now and if any Republican wanted to take away SS from the elderly, he might as well go before a firing squad-- no one is brave enough to even suggest that one.


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## davetgabby

yep, Lucile let's hope there's no morons on the jury.


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## Julie

Personally I was kinda irritated that closing arguments didn't start today (Saturday). I don't really get the reason for the delay. Does anyone know why Judge Perry didn't force a closing argument from one side today? 

I'm looking forward to watching them,starting tomorrow. I bet that jury is seven kinds of pissed off they are stuck as hostages in a hotel for the 4th. Anyway you look at it--their 4th is screwed up at best. Closing arguments on Sunday...they'll deliberate Monday won't they?


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## imamurph

Ok..I have been watching the highlights of this trial and have to say I don't believe the mom when she said the father of Casey's daughter was a friend who has since died..my husband thinks the dad is Casey's brother or father...possible or just weird..? 

I don't think she drowned..just doesn't add up..


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

What do you think? Defense sounding good too. I am really sick of the HLN reporters all trying to sound like Nancy Grace and bite the head off "good morning"...Sensationalism at its best.


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## pjewel

I think the defense is doing the best it can with nothing. They have nothing and they're trying to find some reasonable doubt, not matter who it annihilates in the process.


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## Luciledodd

Enough already. If I was on the jury, I would be pretty tired of the defense by now and liable to convict because of them going on and on. Especially this last man, The judge will instruct the jury of what he is saying. So, they will have to sit through another lecture by the judge. GUILTY


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

I think the defense is scoring some points toward doubt...which is what he wants to do...


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## Julie

After hearing the closing agruments from both sides and hearing the judge instruct on the law------I have to say----I was surprised Jose Baez could put any spin on such stupid nonsense,but he did and actually did a good job of spinning crap. I was shocked at his behavior to the pros. in his closing "that laughing guy" reference was just uncalled for---although I think the pros. was wrong as well.

None the less---I know what I would do. She would be found guilty of 1st degree felony murder. That is what I would vote for myself. She would also be guilty all the 4 counts of lying to police. 

Her facial gestures may me want to------> uke:
For some reason--when I look at her face I see a babboon face and that children's ditty pops into my head-----bunny,bunny foo-foo......."pop" em on the head. I think she needs a bunny bunny foo-foo pop (fist) on the head.:fish:


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Julie said:


> After hearing the closing agruments from both sides and hearing the judge instruct on the law------I have to say----I was surprised Jose Baez could put any spin on such stupid nonsense,but he did and actually did a good job of spinning crap. I was shocked at his behavior to the pros. in his closing "that laughing guy" reference was just uncalled for---although I think the pros. was wrong as well.
> 
> None the less---I know what I would do. She would be found guilty of 1st degree felony murder. That is what I would vote for myself. She would also be guilty all the 4 counts of lying to police.
> 
> Her facial gestures may me want to------> uke:
> For some reason--when I look at her face I see a babboon face and that children's ditty pops into my head-----bunny,bunny foo-foo......."pop" em on the head. I think she needs a bunny bunny foo-foo pop (fist) on the head.:fish:


I love that little bunny foo foo. 
Wish I had heard rebuttal...seems like she did a good job?


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## pjewel

The phone call from prison was chilling. If anyone had any doubt before that, I think it was eradicated by that conversation. Casey is one sick, soulless young woman.


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## dodrop82

I think of her as a MONSTER. Hang her and do it quickly. I sure hope the verdict comes in today. I am soooo ready to move on! And I certainly hope and pray we don't have to go thru this again (Appeal or Hung Jury....Which is what I fear!) And I'm sure Cindy, George and Lee need it all to be over with, so they can start the process of healing and moving forward, instead of living in this nightmare 24/7/365! Can you even imagine the horror that has been there life for the last 3+ years!


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## JCChaplin

While away for the holiday weekend,I had relatives with me who were fixated on the trial so I had to join in of course! I found it fascinating how the two sides could spin the information so differently. I have to say, thought, that the defense's position requires you to abandon all common sense! I also feel Baez made a big mistake going on for 3+ hours. I think he "lost" the jurors and i don't think that they appreciated it, making them less receptive to what he was saying. Either way, I say she's toast!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

"last in, first out" is a saying I thought of after the Prosecution's excellent rebuttal. However, I wondered when listening to the verdict instructions. I think it will be difficult to wade through all of that, usually the longer the jury is out, the better for the defendant..we will see. I agree, it needs to be over..but not sure it will be, even after the verdict..


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## pjewel

I'll be shocked if they don't come back with guilty of first degree murder. There is no way to reconcile her behavior for the 31 days after Caylee died if she didn't know exactly what happened to her. And, there was no remorse. She got that tattoo, claiming "La Bella Vita" to the whole world as her daughter's body was decomposing in a swamp. Soulless, there is no other word for her.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

I have said from the beginning that woman (Casey) has not soul.


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## Susan0406

Verdict is in - will be read at 2:15 est today!


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## JCChaplin

I am not completely surprised at the verdict. Although I feel she's guilty, there was a lot of circumstantial evidence but no scientific ie. DNA, tying her to the crime. A friend of mine is a criminal defense attorney and he predicted this verdict. I am surprised they reached the verdict so quickly, though. All I can say is it's a good thing for her that I wasn't on the jury!


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## StarrLhasa

Ronn Owen's Talk Show on KGO 8.0AM radio in San Francisco discussed the verdict immediately after it was read. Everyone was shocked at both the outcome and the quick time the jury came back in. Apparently, the jury felt that the prosecution had not met its burden of proof. Amazing that she got away with it and what a shame.

I hope her life is miserable and that she does not profit from it.


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## TilliesMom

wow. that's all I can say... I haven't followed the trial as closely as the lot of you, BUT I have been following this thread and am totally shocked by the not guilty verdit... I wonder how Caylee's grandparents are feeling about the verdict??


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## pjewel

She got away with murder. It's that simple. And now she'll profit from it. I still believe she'll pay the ultimate price for what she did . . . someday. Sadly, she'll enjoy her life in between.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

I wonder how Cindy, George and Lee feel? There is NO verdict that could mend this fractured family. It is sad beyond belief...they will surely tear each other apart piece by piece for the rest of their lives...nothing will bring back that little Caylee.


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## Lizzie'sMom

OMG-although I have not followed the case very closely, I am sure in my heart that she is guilty. This is really sad that someone can get away with murder.


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## Luciledodd

My DIL called and asked if juries are just made up of stupid people. Of course the answer is no. But most professionals and people who are aware of what is going on in our country are able to get out of jury duty


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## Julie

After hearing the verdict~I must admit it made me cry. I sat there in shock and just cried! It is with absolute disbelief I set here even now. I am just shocked at how this has came to pass. I think the jury did not apply the facts or lacked all common sense.

Jose Baez comments afterwards IMO,almost make ya wonder if he,deep down inside doesn't know she did it?

I thought Cheney (or whatever his name was) who scolded the public/tv ought to have a quick kick to the ash-----what an arrogant jerk.

All I know--is there is surely an injustice in our justice system today....Caylee Anthony is proof of that. May she rest in piece.....as far as her worthless POS mother goes--all I can say is there must be a special place in hel for a bitch like that. A woman who would kill her child,or even if she did not kill her.....have her body decomposing in the trunk of her car,wrapping her in a blanket,bags,using duct tape on her face and throwing in a swamp to rot and for animals to eat......I hope there is a place in hel reserved for her. May we all be so lucky as to have her get the same sort of treatment she gave her little girl.

I hope George and Cindy do not let that worthless POS daughter come back home and live off of them any longer come Thursday. After how she threw her family under the bus and accused them of such unspeakable acts--I can not imagine,blood or not,taking her back into the fold of family. For me--I sure as hel couldn;t. I'd be more then done with her.


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## Thumper

Disgusted Disgusted...disgusted

With so many proclaimed "checks and balances" in our legal system, its still apparent that the innocent can get wrongfully convicted and the guilty can walk.


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## pjewel

After listening to the alternate juror who spoke to the press, I give up. I think it is true that jurors come into the process with their minds essentially made up and fit all the testimony to support their viewpoint. Scary indeed.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

BOTH sides picked that jury~! And did you hear about some of the jurors backgrounds? I do know it was hard to find a jury in Florida that had not heard of this case, but they did not try hard enough. Their backgrounds were awful. And then one woman in the crowd saying how she was so sorry she had wiggled out of jury duty (she was from Pinnellas County) yep, she did not have time for jury duty, but had time to come to Orlando to watch. It is the professional person who gets out of jury duty we should be angry with right now...and if the shoe fits wear it!! We all want justice but few of us will do jury duty. I am proud to say I have done jury duty whenever called. And no, it has not always been convenient.
NOW, I do want to say that I am also upset with the parents...Cindy and George. They threw themselves under the bus for their daughter. Now they have to live with all the excuses they gave their daughter, Cindy lied for her..who knows what went on...I am not sure if they know what happened to Caylee or not..but what a nightmare either way..
For one, I cannot believe we will never know the truth here of how that little girl died.
Yes Cheney Mason is a Pompous A.. You have to be in order 
to be a successful defense attorney, meek and mild does not win. AND yes, the media has tried to manage this trial. 

I also want to know...who pays??? HLN said Casey does not have to pay that WE have already paid? 

HLN is complaining about the defense table and Casey being right across from the jury...DUH...have they (HLN) never heard of the right of the accused to face their accusors? Casey did have the right to face the jury each day...absolutely.

At least now I won't have to watch the sensationalism...too bad I did not have a better and less biased news coverage available. 

HLN was truly off the charts with their condemnation and biased reporting.
Again, I can't believe we will not know what happened to that child...off my soap box now!


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## irnfit

My heart aches for that beautiful, sweet little girl. I didn't follow the entire trial, but from the closing argumenets and the judges charges, I knew this was going to be the outcome. I hope they can live with themselves!


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## Tom King

I was not surprised at the verdict. I have been a juror on a case that would have sent someone to jail for the rest of their life with much life left-all on circumstantial evidence. Both sides of lawyers always think it's about them, and either winning or losing. It's not. As a juror, you will think about how it will affect you, and your ability to sleep, for the rest of your life, and you need something concrete. To expect a jury to come up with a verdict of guilty for First Degree Murder, the proscecution has to come up with some indesputable evidence-there was none. Even trying as best they can, lawyers for either side rarely come up with 12 people who are simple minded enough to only be ruled by their emotions. We had a few of those on the big case I was a juror for, but they couldn't answer questions about exactly what evidence they were basing their opinion on, so were easily persuaded to see reality.

In my experience, procecuting lawyers and DA's, are fighting a hard battle against superior opponents in both intelligence and depth of pocket for research ability.

The prosecution made a big mistake by going for First Degree. I thought that from the beginning. If I had been one of the jurors, I would not have been able to come up with a different verdict than this one.


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## wynne

what just happened!!!! I am speechless. No justice for poor Caylee.


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## whimsy

people will be talking about this trial for a long time...much like they did with the oj Simpson trial. I followed that one closely and I remember how shocking it was when that verdict was read.


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## LuckyOne

Julie said:


> After hearing the verdict~I must admit it made me cry. I sat there in shock and just cried! It is with absolute disbelief I set here even now. I am just shocked at how this has came to pass. I think the jury did not apply the facts or lacked all common sense.
> 
> Jose Baez comments afterwards IMO,almost make ya wonder if he,deep down inside doesn't know she did it?
> 
> I thought Cheney (or whatever his name was) who scolded the public/tv ought to have a quick kick to the ash-----what an arrogant jerk.
> 
> All I know--is there is surely an injustice in our justice system today....Caylee Anthony is proof of that. May she rest in piece.....as far as her worthless POS mother goes--all I can say is there must be a special place in hel for a bitch like that. A woman who would kill her child,or even if she did not kill her.....have her body decomposing in the trunk of her car,wrapping her in a blanket,bags,using duct tape on her face and throwing in a swamp to rot and for animals to eat......I hope there is a place in hel reserved for her. May we all be so lucky as to have her get the same sort of treatment she gave her little girl.
> 
> I hope George and Cindy do not let that worthless POS daughter come back home and live off of them any longer come Thursday. After how she threw her family under the bus and accused them of such unspeakable acts--I can not imagine,blood or not,taking her back into the fold of family. For me--I sure as hel couldn;t. I'd be more then done with her.


Ditto! Well said!


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## Luciledodd

Everyone just pray that Casey never has another child or marries someone who has children.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

So what is the feeling about what happened to Caylee? Did Casey kill her? Was there some accident at home that was covered up?


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## HavaneseSoon

I am so sick of this trial! I finally quit watching HLN and I will quickly change the channel if they are talking about the case. Did I say... I am so sick of this Justice System!!!! 

I really truly believe it was an accidentally death from the duct tape combined with the chloroform due to Casey or her boyfriend's neglect of Caylee. 

And then.....I could believe Caylee was also getting old enough to talk to let you know...something was not right...if you asked the right questions. 

And...I believe her parents tried to cover up as much as they could. 

And....I am sick that Casey could make lots of $$$$ from this trial in books, interviews, and movie rights. 

Casey should of been charged for something relating to Caylee's death. I am sooooooooooooooooooooo sick of it all!!!:frusty:


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## wynne

Whatever happened, I don't believe Casey intended to kill Caylee. IMO, I think she wanted to go out for the evening, used the chloroform to knock her out for awhile and instead killed her - she then panicked! I dont think that George or Cindy had any involvement. I don't think Casey should have been put to death, but she should have stayed in jail for 20 or so years. The system really failed sweet Caylee!
Casey will make millions with movie rights and books deals and will really be able to party . Don't know if someone can file a civil lawsuit like they did in the O.J. case on Caylee's behave.


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## Lizzie'sMom

wynne said:


> Whatever happened, I don't believe Casey intended to kill Caylee. IMO, I think she wanted to go out for the evening, used the chloroform to knock her out for awhile and instead killed her - she then panicked! I dont think that George or Cindy had any involvement. I don't think Casey should have been put to death, but she should have stayed in jail for 20 or so years. The system really failed sweet Caylee!
> Casey will make millions with movie rights and books deals and will really be able to party . Don't know if someone can file a civil lawsuit like they did in the O.J. case on Caylee's behave.


I agree with you. The entire situation is so sad.


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## pjewel

I think she knew what she was doing and that it was premeditated. The message to Casey Anthony. You can get away with murder. She always thinks she can lie her way out of anything and she did it again.

I do pray she has no other children but I suspect she will. If she does, she had better feel very secure in the life and relationship or I believe that child will be in danger too.


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## Thumper

I thought for sure at the very least she'd get involuntary manslaughter, the innocent on all accounts just blows me away


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## JCChaplin

I found it so "low class" that Jose Baez sat there in front of reporters popping open champagne. Does he not remember that there is a dead child and a destroyed family? There are no real winners here. All he was thinking about, I'm sure, is what this will do for his career. Personally, I think he made a lot of mistakes and I think the not guilty verdict had more to do with the lack of DNA evidence to definitively tie Casey to the murder than it did to Jose Baez's skill as a lawyer.


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## ShirleyH

*Thoughts*

About this mess:

Vengeance is mine saith the Lord (and so is justice)

This child did not kill herself, put duct tape on her mouth and nose, put herself in a plastic bag and throw herself in a swamp.

The jury's decision may be constitutionally correct, but beggars common sense (which isn't too common).

Casey Anthony will be out of jail by the end of July. Time off for good behavior you know and isn't that an irony to exceed all ironies.

How is it possible for an attorney, on either side, to make an opening statement that destroys someone's reputation and then not provide evidence. This means that the attorney got his money's worth when he made the statement, correct?

This, perhaps, is why I love dogs. Dog Moms don't kill their puppies so they can have more food, more fun, or more anything.

Shirley - Keeper's Mom


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## wynne

So Casey could get out by Wednesday for good behavior and time served. She better go into hiding and sleep with one eye open! She can't go any where where she won't be recognized.


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## casperkeep

If I was her I wouldnt be caught in a dark alley.


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## wynne

just saw a news report here where lighning struck a tree in an area where Caylees remains were found today after the sentence. Even mother nature is angry!!!!


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## Julie

JCChaplin said:


> I found it so "low class" that Jose Baez sat there in front of reporters popping open champagne. Does he not remember that there is a dead child and a destroyed family? There are no real winners here. All he was thinking about, I'm sure, is what this will do for his career. Personally, I think he made a lot of mistakes and I think the not guilty verdict had more to do with the lack of DNA evidence to definitively tie Casey to the murder than it did to Jose Baez's skill as a lawyer.


I agree. Jose Baez is a poor example of a good lawyer. He made HUGE mistakes and basically got lucky in my opinion. His client got off but not by his doing.


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## Julie

ShirleyH said:


> About this mess:
> 
> Vengeance is mine saith the Lord (and so is justice)
> 
> This child did not kill herself, put duct tape on her mouth and nose, put herself in a plastic bag and throw herself in a swamp.
> 
> The jury's decision may be constitutionally correct, but beggars common sense (which isn't too common).
> 
> Casey Anthony will be out of jail by the end of July. Time off for good behavior you know and isn't that an irony to exceed all ironies.
> 
> How is it possible for an attorney, on either side, to make an opening statement that destroys someone's reputation and then not provide evidence. This means that the attorney got his money's worth when he made the statement, correct?
> 
> This, perhaps, is why I love dogs. Dog Moms don't kill their puppies so they can have more food, more fun, or more anything.
> 
> Shirley - Keeper's Mom


I understand your feelings too and agree. Isn't it a shame what Jose Baez and his lying client can absolute destroy her father's reputation and get away with it? That is incredible to me. The bottom line to me is: Jose Baez and Casey both lied about the sexual molestation and the only person who paid the price of both of these people's lies were George Anthony and Caylee herself. Isn't it just a tragedy every way there is?


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## Julie

wynne said:


> just saw a news report here where lighning struck a tree in an area where Caylees remains were found today after the sentence. Even mother nature is angry!!!!


I had not heard this myself....but one can only hope that Caylee's memory will haunt Casey ever single minute of every single day.

I found it sickening that today Casey walked into court all bubbly,with her hair down and more makeup,smiling and thinking she cut a fat hog in the ash......only to have to return back to jail. ound: Thank you Judge Perry for given her all he possibly could. The real tragedy will be next Wednesday when she walks out. It just makes me ill.......uke:


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## TilliesMom

she got a WEEK? a freaking WEEK? you have GOT to be kidding me!?


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## Julie

TilliesMom said:


> she got a WEEK? a freaking WEEK? you have GOT to be kidding me!?


Well actually---she was convicted on all 4 counts of lying to a police officer. The maximum sentence is 1 year. All of these lies were actually in 1 meeting with the police. It is said she was actually "overcharged" in the indictment. That being said.....Judge Perry sentenced her to the maximum penalty under law.....she got 1 year on all 4 counts (4 years)....however ---she got credit for the time she has already served....and in Florida they only serve 85% of their time (good behavior etc.). That puts her out next Wednesday. She was also fined 1000.00 for each count.....she will owe 4000.00

It pays to throw a body out in a swamp till it is skeletonized in Florida.........less evidence and no one can ever say "beyond any and all doubt". How many murderers do you think will flee to Florida now?


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

I want to ask what you all think about the jury being threatened? I wonder what we would have thought if we had all been JUST inside the courtroom and heard JUST the evidence instead of all the medial coverage? 
With the death threats being leveled against the jury, you have to wonder how that will affect future trials? 
One thing I hate is that the attorneys and Casey will make a great profit off all this, possibly the Jurors also..
My lasting impression of Cheney and his chain gain would be seeing Cheney giving the middle finger to everyone outside the bar and his nutty side kick jumping up and down and then taking photos of the people outside looking in..she really made an ash out of herself...how professional for that whole group..


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## TilliesMom

I wasn't able to watch any of the trail, so what do you mean when you say the Jury was THREATENED!? why? with what?? wow.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

TilliesMom said:


> I wasn't able to watch any of the trail, so what do you mean when you say the Jury was THREATENED!? why? with what?? wow.


ooops...sorry. The Judge announced that some of the jury had been threatened..the media wants the names of the jurors released to the public. He will probably release the names after the 7 day cooling off period he mentioned...that is public information I understand...Cindy and George Anthony have also said they have received death threats via phone.


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## davetgabby

What can I say .? I found out the verdict by a camper . There's no doubt she was guilty of premeditated murder.I've followed this case for three years, and there's no doubt in my mind, that when you place duct tape over some one's nose and mouth , that you are either trying to kill them or are making sure they are dead already. Hard to believe twelve people can be misled . If they had a problem with the death penalty, they shouldn't have been on the jury. There should be professional jurors ,too many people are too easily led astray. This is on the same level of absurdity as OJ . trial .


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## pjewel

Exactly Dave. For now, she's gotten away with murder, but there will come a day when she has to pay the price for her acts. The thing I find most frightening about her is that see appears to feel nothing about the loss of her daughter . . . but relief. It's as if Caylee was a doll she played with, then tired of, and threw her away. If, someday she feels like playing with another doll, she'll have a baby again. And that thought terrifies me.


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## davetgabby

pjewel said:


> Exactly Dave. For now, she's gotten away with murder, but there will come a day when she has to pay the price for her acts. The thing I find most frightening about her is that see appears to feel nothing about the loss of her daughter . . . but relief. It's as if Caylee was a doll she played with, then tired of, and threw her away. If, someday she feels like playing with another doll, she'll have a baby again. And that thought terrifies me.


yeah Geri, my feelings exactly. She should be spayed.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Odds on that she will have another child within a year..just to show the world she can..adopted or natural. That woman is sicko...truly I believe she has no soul and is a sociopath (sp?) The more people condemn her publicly the more she will dare to do to "Show them"...
On the other hand, I think it should be illegal for anyone involved in a major crime to make a profit from it... (Guess the world is glad I am not Queen lol)


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## Tom King

I didn't follow the whole trial, but I did hear Spitz's testimony that the duct tape was put on after decomposition, so that was enough to put doubt on it as the murder weapon for jurors. I thought when I heard his testimony, that it would be a Not Guilty verdict. For 1st Degree Murder, the jury would be playing God to come up with a guilty verdict without even a method of death. I expect they decided to leave vengence to a higher authority.

I don't want to breathe the same air that Casey breathes, but I would have rendered the same verdict with the case as presented. I expect that if the proscecutors had Spitz's whole testimony, as they should have had, before the trial, that they might not have even tried the case.


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## dodrop82

I wish you were queen, Flynn! And can you imagine any adoption agency running a back ground check on Casey Marie Anthony...HaHaHa...I gotta think they'd stamp her app. with DENIED!!!


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## davetgabby

Tom King said:


> I didn't follow the whole trial, but I did hear Spitz's testimony that the duct tape was put on after decomposition, so that was enough to put doubt on it as the murder weapon for jurors. I thought when I heard his testimony, that it would be a Not Guilty verdict. For 1st Degree Murder, the jury would be playing God to come up with a guilty verdict without even a method of death. I expect they decided to leave vengence to a higher authority.
> 
> I don't want to breathe the same air that Casey breathes, but I would have rendered the same verdict with the case as presented. I expect that if the proscecutors had Spitz's whole testimony, as they should have had, before the trial, that they might not have even tried the case.


Spitz was an idiot in my opinion. He was'nt allowed because he wasn't an expert. NO Way. The duct tape was washed clean of any evidence, the cotton backing was even missing . That duct tape was in the swamp as long as Caylee.


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## wynne

Such a sad sad case. I know in my heart that Casey is guilty. People have been convicted of muder with much less evidence.
If Caylee drowned, call 911 dont lead police on a goose chase. Now Casey will become rich with book and movies offers at the expensive of Caylee.


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## Tom King

I don't understand what you mean by saying Spitz's testimony was not allowed. His testimony was what made the difference regardless. The defense almost got into trouble because they had not fully disclosed what his testimony was going to be to the proscecution beforehand like they are supposed to, but the Judge had to allow it anyway because of it's importance to the case. The jury had already heard it anyway, so it wouldn't have mattered whether or not it was allowed. I never heard anything about it not being allowed.

His presentation was of course pretty poor, but his credentials are pretty deep, and his testimony was that cause of death was indeterminable. The prosecution was not able to convince the jury beyond a shadow of doubt that duct tape was the cause of death after that, so if you look over all the emotional part, there was no evidence for premeditated murder beyond a shadow of doubt. The jury was not watching Nancy Grace and other TV commentators to get pumped up like apparently almost everyone else was.

You are asking the jury to send someone to their possible death based on beliefs and feelings. I have no doubt that Casey will be dealt with at some point sooner or later, but I would not have made the decision, especially when it's supposed to be based on beyond a shadow of doubt, to her death based on the case as presented.


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## davetgabby

yeah Tom I guess we disagree on this guy. Common sense tells us that duct tape was not put on the body later. and the prosecution witness was far more convincing. The jury dropped the ball. Anyone that believes Kronk had anything to do with it, is searching for an excuse. This was an open and shut case in my opinion. No doubts at all. The jury was lacking . Call it what you want .I've listened to probably over a hundred experts watching this case over the last three years and next to all of them agree. Geeze even Casey's parents believe she had something to do with it. As much as Cindy lied to protect her, she knows that George or Kronk didn't do it. When a dozen people and two dogs (who you should know ,don't lie ) tell you there was the smell of death in the trunk, I think that is pretty convincing evidence. Why on God's green earth would someone put the body of a child in the car . She was the only one with access to that car for the time previous to the discovery.


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## pjewel

Tom, I think the operative phrase you used was "I didn't watch the whole trial." If you had, I find it hard to believe you wouldn't believe Casey Anthony, with premeditation, murdered her daughter and disposed of her as she would any other toy she no longer wanted.

In order for anyone to be found guilty of murder, there has to be no *reasonable* doubt, not without a shadow of a doubt. Whatever the jurors did or didn't get from this trial, next week there will be one more murderer walking free in a world where there are already too many. In my world, there is no greater crime than to dispose of, in a callous and calculated way, a totally dependent and innocent child.

I have no doubt that one day Casey Anthony will get to be accountable for her crimes. For now, she is one of the scariest people to me. She has no soul and she's a pathological liar. I feel terrible for, and can't imagine being her parents.


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## Tom King

I do "believe" she was guilty of doing something evil, but the method of death was not presented in concrete enough evidence to prove that she planned it and carried it out. Yes, there is no argument that Casey is a liar. That's why she was easily convicted on all counts that she was charged with for being a liar. I did watch the cross on Spitz, but didn't think the prosecution presented enough of an argument to prove that duct tape was the cause of death. I did think that it was quite possible it was put on some time after death.

Spitz has been the go-to guy forever on forensic evidence and wrote what I understand is required reading for all lawyers. He's an old scientist and English was not his first languge. I know plenty of guys like this, understand what he was saying, why his presentation was like it was, and where it was coming from. He's far from being an "idiot". It raised plenty of doubt as to the question of whether duct tape was put on before or after death. I see nothing to indicate it was "common sense" that duct tape was the murder weapon.

First degree murder means it was planned in advance (premeditated) and the plan was carried out. I was never convinced that it was not some sort of terrible accident even as a result of some awful devious action.

What evidence are those of you who watched the whole trial using to say that it was !st degree murder? On the case that I was a juror in, at first vote we had 10 not guilty, and 2 guilty. When the two who voted guilty were asked why they thought the defendant was guilty, one said, "he looked like he was guilty", and the other said, "I believe he's guilty." The first opinion based on the look was not aggreed on by the other 11. She changed her vote when she heard that everyone else didn't agree. The person who said she believed he was guilty, could bring up no point in the trial to offer concrete evidence to support her belief. This was not even a possible death penalty case, but it was probable that the defendant would go to jail for the rest of his life. When the holdout on belief was asked if she was willing to send him to prison for the rest of his life based on her belief, she quickly changed her vote and the verdict was not guilty.

Here is the Florida Statute on Murder: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html

Second degree would have been a sure thing. First degree not so much. In my opinion, the prosecution was too greedy going for 1st Degree, when 2nd would have at least put her away for life.


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## ShirleyH

*Sad But True*

The 'line' between reasonable doubt and reason is difficult to wrap around. Tom, if Caylee died as the result of 'some devious action' by her mother, it is felony murder.

What I believe is that no one gets away with murder and this woman will not. Sometime, somewhere, perhaps not in this life, this little girl will have justice. I do hope that no more violence will be done. Those who would avenge by killing are just as guilty of murder.

I think it highly likely that someone in the family knows a lot more than they told. Cindy, for one, is as disturbed as her daughter.

Shirley


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## Tom King

Shirley, I agree with what you are saying. But you cannot simply charge someone with "murder". The prosecution has to choose between the various "degrees" as laid out in our laws. Any one is a felony. I believe the wrong charges were brought against her as far as being able to convict. You can't simply say that you believe it should be different with a different result. We have to go by the letter of the law.


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## ShirleyH

*Charges*

Tom, maybe I'm totally wrong, but I thought the charges as written allowed for Murder One, Felony Murder (both eligible for the death penalty) Second Degree murder, and Manslaughter.

At any rate, what we know for sure is that this child is dead and did not die by her own hand.

I continue to think this is very probably constitutionally correct, but reason is lost. George Anthony was right 'one and one makes two'.

Shirley


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## Tom King

Yes, you are right sort of: http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/july/273571/Casey-Anthony:-The-charges-against-her

But I think it was a mistake going for First Degree. Once that is struck down in the jury's mind, they will look at the lack of evidence for first to mean there wasn't enough for second. The depraved mind part of second would have been a much more influential part in convincing of second degree. I think once the jury goes over the lack of evidence for premeditation, it weighs strongly against having enough evidence for anything without a cause of death. I think it's too much to expect the average person, which is typically what is on juries, to make the complicated decision to say, well they didn't show enough for first degree, but can convict of 2nd without it being brought up by the prosecution, so the verdict is simply "not guilty".

I think the jury could have justified in their minds life in prison for Second, a lot easier than they could for the possible death penalty in First. The possible death penalty is a big weight over anyone's head, even when you know it's not individually up to you, but you are part of a group that it's left up to for a recommendation, and you have no control over the other 11's recommendation.


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## davetgabby

Tom I don't know where you think placing duct tape over someones' nose and mouth is not premeditated murder. ? The only question was whether Caylee died because of the chloroform or the duct tape. But the duct tape was done to maybe make sure she was dead. Either way it was premeditated. They origninally charged her with murder and no death penalty. After the body was found with the duct tape , it was OBVIOUS that the person who did this wanted Kaylee dead and that's when they charged her with first degree and capital punishment as the top charge.


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## wynne

I would have have been happy with life in prison. With pictures of Caylee plastered all around here as constant memories ound:. If she had been sentenced to death on first degree murder it would have gone to appeals. We will never ever no Exactly how Caylee died. The body was too decomposed too tell, but no doubt Casey contributed to it. 
Kids die in swimming pools every year, it is a tragic accident, but you don't throw their bodies in a garbage bag as their coffin and then into a swamp. 
Casey told lie after lie. The whole swimming thing did not come up until later. Even when the defense showed pictures of Caylee by the swimming pool and how easiy she could have gotten up the ladder, her grand-mother was in every photo supporting her up the ladder.


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## ShirleyH

*No Real Answers*

Thanks, Tom, I looked at the 'charges' link and find the 'lesser included' reference confusing. I agree with Dave and most everyone that this child died at her mother's hand. How 'beautifully' this scenario played out for Casey Anthony. The body not found when evidence was available; drugs in the system, DNA, etc. Apparently when the body was left, it was under water and no one thought to poke around in that water. The length of time the child was missing also played into her hands. So, no cause of death can be determined and no evidence remained.

However, I believe the manager of the impound lot who has smelled dead bodies many times in cars left there. I also absolutely, utterly believe that the dogs found evidence of a cadaver having been in the yard. This, though, probably plays into the 'accidental drowning' alibi.

It's over, but not forever.

Shirley


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