# Invisible Fencing



## David (Jan 25, 2007)

Hi Folks: I live in an rural area ( actually on a lake surrounded by bush) . I am wondering if any of you have had any experience with "invisible fencing" I would like to establish a "safe area" for my hopefully soon to be Havanese where he can wonder around without a leash. I would prefer the electronic fencing as opposed to the traditional type of fencing....but only if it is safe and reliable.  

David


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

We tried it with our lab several years ago. It was a low-end system, and we enclosed a fairly small yard. It was the type with a collar that zaps the dog if it gets too close to the fence. It turned out that we couldn't adjust it so that the dog had any safe area in our yard. The first time we tried it, she ended up cowering between our legs! We turned it off, dug up the wire and returned it to the store. Maybe there are better systems out there than the one we tried...


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

The problem with invisible fencing is that your dog can end up "trapped" in a small area and predators can still get in. You can't stop a larger animal or a human from crossing into your dog's territory, but your dog will be afraid of the jolt and won't leave. He has no means of escape.

I don't like invisible fencing for those reasons.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

I haven't had it myself, but I had a friend that did in a larger yard, with a larger dog. The problem they had was that occationally the dog would bolt over the fence area and then would be afraid to come back to the yard because of the zap. 
Beverly


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

David. I don't have it but my sister in law does for her Hav. She only uses it when they are outside with him. She enjoys it because they all can be in the back yard hanging out. However, as previously mentioned you cannot rely on it because other animals can come in.

She also has one for inside her house. It is portable and she uses it when she travels to my in laws.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

David,
I don't think it is safe or reliable. I would use the traditional fencing.


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## David (Jan 25, 2007)

Thank you for your comments; they have been helpful. One comment in particular about not keeping other animals out is important as we have bears, wolves,coyotes, and fishers in the area..
..think I will go for a traditional fence.

David


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

OH I love bears. A Hav might be caviar for a Grizz. 
Do you ever get them near your house? That would be awesome. Well if you were in a safe house kind of awesome.


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

Good choice, David. I don't like invisable fences for all the reason's others have stated here on the forum. A lot of people forget about other critters coming into the yard......I was worried you might pick the invisable fence, but now I feel better!


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## David (Jan 25, 2007)

Yes Melissa, we frequently get them near our house, but they are black bears and not grissleys...thank heavens. Actually fishers pose a greater threat than bears....fishers are one mean bundle of fur. The bears seem to show up after we have used the barbecue so I guess they are attracted by the smell of burgers.
Two years ago the weather was very dry and there were very few berries for the bears. I counted 23 bears at one time at a landfill site 2 km from us. People were buying bags of dog food and throwing it in the landfill for the bears to eat.

David


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## David (Jan 25, 2007)

Love your avatar Judy...the colour of your little Hav is exactly what I would like.

David


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

David. Good choice. My sister in law lives in the Pittsburgh suburbs and doesn't have to worry about bears and things. She only uses it when they are outside with the dog so it is kind of expensive for not letting them be able to run a little on their own. Most developments won't let you put up a fence so that is where her problem came in.

If you can go traditional it is the best. Keep the grizzlies out.

Good luck.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

David, It looks like I am the minority, but I love my electric fence. I normally do not let them out to play unless I am out there, or checking every 10 minutes, but it gives them a great chance to run and play, without a leash, or blocking off my view of my woods. My girls have been very good on it. Lexi only got out twice, only because she was running SO fast that she couldnt stop. She didnt go far tho,and came back. I also have one in my large garden so that they stay out of the flowers, and also one in my formal living room as that is where all my plants are. I find that it works best with the little dogs but I agree with everyone else, if you have bears etc, you should def. get the standard fence. I also worry at my place about hawks, whenever I see one flying around, I take the pups in. Don't want to see my pups being taken away like the flying monkeys in the Wizard of Oz!!!


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## David (Jan 25, 2007)

Yikes!...forgot about Hawks !!!..we also have Great Horned and Grey owls both of which I have seen in the day time ( especially in winter ), and both of which could easily carry off a small dog.....I think I could become paranoid about the safety on my Hav.....guess I will have to be with it at all times when I am outside 

David


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

yEA, WE have owls also, but they are only out at night & my guys are on leashes at night. It's a big world out there or these little guys!! I think that if I had bears, I would do the standard fence. I am in central Jersey so dont see too many bears. Fox, coyotes, racoons, and deer mostly!


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

I think the bottom line is no matter what you decide you have to monitor them. You cannot leave them out all day without some supervision. My neighbor gave up on the invisible fence and now put their Dalmation on a run but the Dalmation even took off with that. Plus it goes after small children and other dogs. Nice. I won't even start about other people who should keep their cats safe. They let them wonder into everyone's yard and leave presents in my flower boxes. UGH.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I have a fenced in yard, so they have the run of it. The only thing I have to worry about is squirrels .
If is sit out front, I leash them to a yard stake. I wouldn't use the electric fence out front, too many cats, other dogs, and small children in my neighborhood.


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## David (Jan 25, 2007)

I just received "The Havanese" by Diane Klumb and she is definitely against invisible/electonic fencing.....guess I will have to become "Bob the Builder " next spring.

David


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

I have thought about "Invisible Fence", we have 5 acres and fencing the whole thing is not practical. The rep. in our area says it can be used on a Chihuahua. Our neighbour tried it with their labs with no success. I still have many, many doubts.


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

Debbie, My sister in law put in her own invisible fence. She didn't do a large area because he is just a little guy. But she did around the patio and above ground pool. She seems to love it but he is never outside unmonitored except for a quick pee stop with her on the patio. . She mainly did it so they could hang outside in the summer without her tying him or chasing him in the yard. As I said, in her Development you cannot put in fences, clothes lines, etc. So, she had little options.

I'll ask her what brand it is?


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Debbie, We put in the "invisible fence" brand & have been very happy. We only have an acre but we put it in the from only about 15 feet away from the road, so they cant get close to the street & someone is less likely to snatch them, and along the grass line in the back. Last year we extended out back yard further back about 100 feet but left the invis. fence where it was. The pups know that they cannot go into that part of the lawn. So you wouldnt have to do your entire property. I find that it gives my guys the freedom to play like they want. My girlfriend also has the fence on the same frequency and when her 3 come to play, or we go there to swim and play, all 6 are in either yard safely. I know most people think it is cruel but it only takes one zap for them to "get it" They are very smart!!


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Laurief, 

One more concern of my is if the collar will mat the coat? Sam is 14 months now and still matting like crazy. I can't trim because I'm still showing him.

So far Sam has not tried to go anywhere. We have 3ft fencing to stop him and the kids from getting to the road and everywhere else there is natural barriers, thick brush and ferns, that Sam has never tried to get through. My concern is the transition from snow banks and green foliage, you can see through, he may try to explore. If he was a beagle he would be long gone. But because of the "Velco Nature" of the Hav, he doesn't want to go anywhere. I'm afaid I'm pushing my luck.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Debbie, honestly I do not have a problem wit matting & their collars. I do keep my guys in a shorter cut, so that might be why. They are so used to having their collars on all day, that if you take them off to give a bath, or to go to bed, they get agitated & want it back! it is so funny to see. I would be careful about the 3 foot fence even it he has not tried, he might go over it & be gone before you know it. Logan is only 4-5months old & can climb out and over his pen which is 4 feet high. Logan has been off leash with no electric collar, cause he is too young & has not been trained yet, but I only do that when the girls are out with him - and I have trained him to come on command and he comes EVERY time - so that is good. It may be expensive to install initially but I love it!


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

For what it is worth David I think you are better going with the traditional fencing and fencing a small area where the dogs can play safely . 
Maybe Tom will help you - he seems to know what is best in rural areas ...
When you mention bears that is a concern to me . Trust me these are not cuddly critters . Bears have become a terrible problem here in Ca . They are doing major damage in Yosemite and Lake Tahoe . They break into homes and cars and they destroy kitchens in homes and restauraants and into cars and vans . They break into the trash cans we have to have bear proof containers with locks .They break in for the food - it is easier than finding their own 
Our home is fenced with chain link and gates every so often I have to walk the fence line to check it as critters can get in and on our property -their handiwork of breaking down the fence can enable the dogs to get out .. I live in a city but it has a rural look to where I am located . We have critters deer skunks feral cats and raccoons . I am always with the dogs - I do not let them hang out on their own . I am too nervous . Too many horror stories !!

I am not in favor of electronic fences . I just do not like to shock animals that way . Just my own personal bias . I know it is considered harmless but .. 

Also just a fyi . These are small dogs and they need to be watched if you have a lot of wild life nearby . You do not want to lose your dog - it can happen in a heartbeat .
I have had a friend who lost her Maltese to a coyote in Texas, a friend who lost her Yorkie to a coyote in the desert . A coyote just took a puppy from a woman walking her puppy here in the desert .
I would be a little apprehensive letting them have free run on your property..
I know you are concerned about helath issues so this should be a concern to you as well ..


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## David (Jan 25, 2007)

Hi Cosmosmom:
I agree with you about the invisible fencing and about NOT leaving the dog outside by itself. There hidden and different dangers in rural areas that city dwellers don't have to contend with( eg. my neighbor lost her dog this year when it fell thru some thin ice and drowned ) Our biggest threat would be 
a creature called a fisher.....these are related to wolverines and although smaller are absolutely ferocious. We have had two bears at our back door in the last five years; luckily they didn't stick around and did no damage...I think they were attracted by the smell of the barbecue. At any rate, I will be using the traditional fencing and only let our hav out when I am there.

David


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