# This election scares me



## kawboy

I've always felt that even if my candidate didn't win we would be fine and life would go on as usual. I don't feel that way this time. We are either going to go back to being a capitalist nation that rewards hard work or we are going to move farther towards the failed Europeon socialist welfare state model. We are either going to work for a living or vote for a living. This is the most important election of our lifetime so please get out and vote. Unless, of course, you are voting for what will be four years worse than the last four.


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## Missy

Oh no! I learned 4 years ago not to talk about politics, religion or dog food on a dog forum! 

My lips are sealed this time around.


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## Luciledodd

You are correct, I just deleted my post.


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## bellapico

Oh goodness, can we have a politics free zone. This is the only safe haven I know of.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Politics on the forum rates up there with advertising puppy mill dogs for sale. Too much passion and heat.


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## FancyNancy

i agree. No politics on the forum. One thing is for certain, life will go on no matter what an election brings! Life and our pups. YAY for that.


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## motherslittlehelper

Missy said:


> Oh no! I learned 4 years ago not to talk about politics, religion or dog food on a dog forum!
> 
> My lips are sealed this time around.


I agree, although I didn't learn it from the forum - but just from life in general. Just got back from spending a few days with my dad, and he started in - our views are pretty much polar opposite. I finally had to tell him that it was better that we didn't go there - I didn't want to end up on his $#@* list! ound: I guess I did learn about dog food on the forum though, and pretty much just keep my mouth shut about that these days too! :biggrin1:


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## kawboy

Sorry. I figured anything goes in this section but if politics is a no no that's ok.


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## TilliesMom

kawboy said:


> I've always felt that even if my candidate didn't win we would be fine and life would go on as usual. I don't feel that way this time. We are either going to go back to being a capitalist nation that rewards hard work or we are going to move farther towards the failed Europeon socialist welfare state model. We are either going to work for a living or vote for a living. This is the most important election of our lifetime so please get out and vote. Unless, of course, you are voting for what will be four years worse than the last four.


not to get into politics... but I feel the same way.:behindsofa:


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## Missy

Actually Cawboy, I love talking politics. Even a heated debate. In fact I started a thread last time around... But it got very heated. I didn't mean to put the kabosh on this thread.


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## kawboy

Missy said:


> Actually Cawboy, I love talking politics. Even a heated debate. In fact I started a thread last time around... But it got very heated. I didn't mean to put the kabosh on this thread.


Seeing the state you live in my guess is you have some opinions about Romney. Here in Michigan we have a strange dynamic. The lower penninsula is heavy democratic while the upper penninsula where I live is much more conservative. It's like a blue and red state mixed in one. Polls show Romney even with Obama here which is shocking if it's true. I think welfare is the biggest "employer" in the lower penninsula.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Guys this is really not the time or is it fun to get in a big political argument, there are members who are dealing with a huge national disaster. This is a forum about our cute pups that mostly make us forget the harshness of everyday life and help to make life light. Politics are very ugly this time around many on here do not share the same views and we don't need to, I would like to see this forum remain civil.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Might I suggest that you try one of the political sites, you can let off steam by choosing one with your beliefs, or you can sink your teeth in to the opposite thinkers, these sites exist just for that purpose. Personally I am having a hard time not responding to many of my relatives that are using my facebook to try to push their agenda, I bet there are members here that are trying to deal with the same.


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## My2Havs

bellapico said:


> Oh goodness, can we have a politics free zone. This is the only safe haven I know of.


But this is the Coffee Shop forum and with a thread name like *"This election scares me" *which is a pretty obvious subject matter, can't those of you not interested in discussing politics just not participate? You don't even have to open the thread for heavens sake. I think kawboy stated it very well and I totally agree also.
Monica, Dooley & Roxie


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## The Laughing Magpie

It just is not fair to taint the forum with an election debate...it will only bring out strong feelings that will not change the election one way or the other. The Coffee Shop has often been used for telling about our families, sharing sorrows and happiness. There are other forums that are just for your political views. 

On a personal note I come here to share, laugh, and to discuss everything Havanese and dog in general, I like hearing about everyones families etc., politics are something I am trying to avoid and coming here lets me do it.


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## Luciledodd

Why not use the chat function this evening. No one ever goes there and I don't know why.


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## krandall

I have to say, I'd prefer not to have politics on the forum too. We have members from other countries, for whom this is of little-no interest, except that it shows the worst side of us as Americans.

I hate to say it, but listening to some people's views on politics ends up tainting my feelings about them too. I see all kinds of stuff every day on FB, it has been SO refreshing to come to the forum and know that it was a safe aven from all of that. Let's just leave it be.


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## narci

You know what I find funny about American politics?

The fact that Canadians are more interested in American politics then our own Canadian politics.


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## clare

In Britain we are very interested in your politics,as they affect us greatly.I have no wish to get anyones back up,but I thought you might be interested to hear how the vast majority of Brits feel about your 2 candidates.Let me know if you want to hear how Brits feel.


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## The Laughing Magpie

I have family living in Grt. Britain, please tell us how you feel after...it will just get people started. I have family in France and they always want to know all the salacious gossip...who got caught with their pants down, they can go on for hours about it, and how much more civil the French are. They amuse me when they are not annoying me. Really this election is not putting our best face forward so lets not go there.

I come here to smile, laugh, and sometimes share the sad times with others who are as dog nutty as I.


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## narci

I'd personally would love to hear what people outside north America think.

I'm in Hong Kong right now and there has been next to zero news about US politics.

Would love another perspective other then the cnn, abc, nbc propaganda machines.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Really we should be talking about our dogs and finding out how people are doing after Sandy. All that will happen is people will get mad and then there will be hurt feelings...the fall out from that takes a toll and is just not worth it and it's not fair to subject the forum members to more of the same.


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## luv3havs

I agree with not talking about politics here. I'm sick of all the ads and nasty comments.
Let's keep talking about the dogs....it's sweet talk!


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## emichel

I agree that knowing that people have radically different political views from mine makes me not even want to know what they think about dogs, or anything else, for that matter. It scares and angers me to think that people would even consider voting for Romney, who I feel is a pathetic candidate with no integrity whatsoever. And if you're interested, almost the entire world fervently hopes that he doesn't win. It is ridiculous to think that Obama is anything near a socialist, more like centrist or slightly to the right of that, and I don't have to guess where you get your "news". I do agree with the people who said that this is an open thread and that people don't have to read it if they don't want to, and I will not apologize to anyone who is offended by my views. Well, maybe eventually I will forget the names of the people who I think are beyond the pale politically, so that I can again read what you have to say about dogs some day. But not right now.


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## The Laughing Magpie

We really don't need this. Coffee shop is for personal things one might want to share, but not politics....this is a dog forum. Dogs don't vote. It is not a rule, it would be a nice gesture to this keep this forum non political. Many of us are trying to tune it out.
I personally don't want to see people leave the forum when passions are incited,feelings are hurt, or people become angry and leave the forum. This is just not the appropriate venue for political discussion.


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## emichel

I do see your point, Robbie, but I also think that when someone sees the topic heading "This election scares me" it is obvious what it is about. If anyone doesn't want to get into politics on here, they should not read a post like that. If these kind of opinions were inserted into another topic, that would be different. I also think that if someone is going to start a topic like this, they shouldn't be surprised if they get some blowback!
-- Eileen


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## kawboy

emichel said:


> I agree that knowing that people have radically different political views from mine makes me not even want to know what they think about dogs, or anything else, for that matter. It scares and angers me to think that people would even consider voting for Romney, who I feel is a pathetic candidate with no integrity whatsoever. And if you're interested, almost the entire world fervently hopes that he doesn't win. It is ridiculous to think that Obama is anything near a socialist, more like centrist or slightly to the right of that, and I don't have to guess where you get your "news". I do agree with the people who said that this is an open thread and that people don't have to read it if they don't want to, and I will not apologize to anyone who is offended by my views. Well, maybe eventually I will forget the names of the people who I think are beyond the pale politically, so that I can again read what you have to say about dogs some day. But not right now.


I don't need to guess where you get your news either. MSNBC?


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## rdanielle

My2Havs said:


> But this is the Coffee Shop forum and with a thread name like *"This election scares me" *which is a pretty obvious subject matter, can't those of you not interested in discussing politics just not participate? You don't even have to open the thread for heavens sake. I think kawboy stated it very well and I totally agree also.
> Monica, Dooley & Roxie


Very well stated, Monica & Kawboy. Couldn't agree more this is a public forum for chit chat.


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## Tuss

Chica'sMom said:


> If you don't like the subject matter in a particular thread, don't read it. It really is that simple.
> FYI this Canadian gal is drinking coffee out of her Obama mug. (Purchased in FL the year he was elected.) My little way of having coffee with my neighbor ... one I happen to like.


 Most canadians are pro-Obama and terrified of what could happen if the republicans get in power. I can't imagine why any woman would support the Republicans and set back womans rights by about 50 years!


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## The Laughing Magpie

As I see one can only try to keep the toxic out of something fun, many Americans have already voted. So now I will question why I even care, as people seem to want to taint even light hearted things, again my point all along this is not a policital blog or forum, it is to share the love of the Havanese.


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## mckennasedona

> Oh no! I learned 4 years ago not to talk about politics, religion or dog food on a dog forum!


Dog food, Missy?? Really? People fight over dog food? LOL 
I must have missed that thread but boy do I remember the Politics thread. Oh my.....another hot button is politics at dog shows......


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## narci

The heading for this section of the forums is "Family and Friends: A casual place for anything that may not pertain to dogs.", "Coffee Shop A good place for chit-chat"


Why must we talk about dogs in this section? There plentiful other parts of the forum for topics pertaining to dogs.


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## Missy

Ha ha Susan. yes dog food gets pretty heated too! but not as bad as political debate and dare I say it "Havana Silk Dog."

I was really torn the last election cycle and really wanted to hear from people here their opinions--- but it didn't go down well. I'm just saying... from experience.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Sometimes no matter how much you warn people they never learn. But I feel often people just don't care. Sometimes people just want to push the their agenda. We don't have to talk about dogs...but thats why we came to this forum. 

Coffee shop is for chit chat but politics are very different from everyday chit chat. This is a year when politics are a toxic subject.


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## goiter6

Since this is a place to discuss Havanese - it seems natural that the most important issue here should be how these candidates feel about Havanese.

What I found through google:
Mitt Romney has no stated opinion on Havanese.
Barack Obama stated during a Barbara Walters' interview that Havanese are "little yappy dogs" and "girly dogs".

So there's the election in terms of Havanese:
Mitt Romney is the Democrat's caricature of not having any real opinions.
Barack Obama is the Republican's caricature of being an arrogant jerk insulting Barbara Walters' dog to her face.

...

This post was intended to be funny but in the back of my mind I can see dueling negative ads with this content. That makes me sad.


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## Tuss

goiter6 said:


> Since this is a place to discuss Havanese - it seems natural that the most important issue here should be how these candidates feel about Havanese.
> 
> What I found through google:
> Mitt Romney has no stated opinion on Havanese.
> Barack Obama stated during a Barbara Walters' interview that Havanese are "little yappy dogs" and "girly dogs".
> 
> So there's the election in terms of Havanese:
> Mitt Romney is the Democrat's caricature of not having any real opinions.
> Barack Obama is the Republican's caricature of being an arrogant jerk insulting Barbara Walters' dog to her face.
> 
> ...
> 
> This post was intended to be funny but in the back of my mind I can see dueling negative ads with this content. That makes me sad.


Hahaha. Did Obama really say that about the havanese? Tsk tsk. At least he is a dog person. Bo the white house dog is pretty cute...


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## rdanielle

Tuss said:


> Hahaha. Did Obama really say that about the havanese? Tsk tsk. At least he is a dog person. Bo the white house dog is pretty cute...


A true dog person would NEVER eat a dog.


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## The Laughing Magpie

What a breath of fresh air...Yes, presendential dogs are so much more interesting then people! Bush 1's dog wrote a book, Clinton's dog was a little excitable...Buddy went to India...In India they loved Bill, so did my French family but not for the same reason. Johnson had a "mutt" he was taken with, along with other dogs. I don't recall Carter's?

Goiter 6, Thanks for making it all fit and giving me a laugh...this is why I come here!


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## sashamom

The Laughing Magpie said:


> What a breath of fresh air...Yes, presendential dogs are so much more interesting then people! Bush 1's dog wrote a book, Clinton's dog was a little excitable...Buddy went to India...In India they loved Bill, so did my French family but not for the same reason. Johnson had a "mutt" he was taken with, along with other dogs. I don't recall Carter's?
> 
> Goiter 6, Thanks for making it all fit and giving me a laugh...this is why I come here!


Don't forget Socks the Whitehouse cat during Clinton's time.


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## kawboy

Tuss said:


> Most canadians are pro-Obama and terrified of what could happen if the republicans get in power. I can't imagine why any woman would support the Republicans and set back womans rights by about 50 years!


Women are moving heavily toward Romney. Why, because a woman is more than her reproductive organs. If she is a single mom trying to feed her kids and keep the lights, heat and water on she needs a job but doesn't have one. If she is married she is concerned about the same thing but her husband has been underemployed for three years with no good prospects. She isn't worried about free birth control or free abortions. She isn't afraid Romney will try to overturn Roe V Wade. She is worried where the money will come from to pay the next round of bills. She apparently is thinking Romney might just do a better job with the economy and if you don't have a stong economy you can't fix anything else.


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## The Laughing Magpie

You just don't quit there is no reason for this on a dog forum. Not everyone is unemployed and none of us know what goes on in anothers shoes or bed. This kind of talk is not productive...I knew you were going here, because the way you started the thread. We really don't need this.


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## narci

This IS the correct section of the forum for this kind of chit chat (please see my last post). If it wasn't, this thread would have been locked long time ago.

Regardless, I think the members here are respectful enough that we can have an adult conversation on politics.

I know as a Canadian which way I would vote if I was American but I don't want to get into the details for the sake of offending. It's only the future for the country for the next 4 years.

What I wouldn't mind chatting about is the elections as a whole. I personally don't understand the whole idea of a 'super vote' or why companies are allowed to donate anonymously. I also don't understand the little talked about tactic where the campaigns rigoursly try to throw out votes...some legal votes.


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## The Laughing Magpie

I guess no one is listening...it was horrible last election, it won't be better this time around. It would be nice for everyone to stay friendly.


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## kawboy

The Laughing Magpie said:


> I guess no one is listening...it was horrible last election, it won't be better this time around. It would be nice for everyone to stay friendly.


For someone who doesn't like political discussion you sure are following this thread faithfully. In my first post it was easy to see who I support but there was no nastiness or disrespect for the President. We can have a civil discussion about the biggest issues facing our country. The only derogatory comment made in this entire thread was a claim that Romney has no integrity. Funny how the most personal insults come from liberals, the very people that pride themselves on tolerance and diversity.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Nanci, I guess you are asking about Super Pacs. In 2010 The Supreme Court in the case know as Citizens V. Federal Election Commission, a divided court ruled 5 to 4 that government may not ban independent political spending by unions, corporations, or other organizations in a candidate election. Citizens United is considered by some/many to be the Supreme Court's most controversial decision since; Bush v. Gore. It has changed our political landscape.

This means that corporations etc. can pool their money and put it behind a candidate with no limits. Some think this may make the political offices in the US up for sale, we really don't know what the out come will be, it is too new. I am sure you can look it up on the web., it is a lot of reading with many other election cases sited with it.

This is one of the reasons the election is so hot, our Supreme Court has many aging members and the next president will get to replace any that retire.


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## The Laughing Magpie

I have not said if I am conservative or liberal, I just don't think that this is productive, also I have not painted any economic group with a broad brush.


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## krandall

Missy said:


> Ha ha Susan. yes dog food gets pretty heated too! but not as bad as political debate and dare I say it "Havana Silk Dog."
> 
> I was really torn the last election cycle and really wanted to hear from people here their opinions--- but it didn't go down well. I'm just saying... from experience.


<gasp> No! Don't say THAT!!! :biggrin1:


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## krandall

rdanielle said:


> A true dog person would NEVER eat a dog.


Or strap pne to the roof of his car... Just sayin'


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## rdanielle

krandall said:


> Or strap pne to the roof of his car... Just sayin'


At least he was still alive


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## atsilvers27

Hmm, so far this thread has not crashed and burned so that's a credit to the forum members I think. All I have to add is I think if people want to go "in" there are more appropriate venues. I do have to say my mother personally knows Mitt Romney and I know some individuals that have interacted with him. Although my mom is a staunch Democrat she will vigorously vouch for his personal character. He is not really how a lot of the media portray him as he was my mom's bishop and helped out a lot of people in poverty, minorities, people with financial, marriage and addiction problems, etc.


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## narci

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Nanci, I guess you are asking about Super Pacs. In 2010 The Supreme Court in the case know as Citizens V. Federal Election Commission, a divided court ruled 5 to 4 that government may not ban independent political spending by unions, corporations, or other organizations in a candidate election. Citizens United is considered by some/many to be the Supreme Court's most controversial decision since; Bush v. Gore. It has changed our political landscape.
> 
> This means that corporations etc. can pool their money and put it behind a candidate with no limits. Some think this may make the political offices in the US up for sale, we really don't know what the out come will be, it is too new. I am sure you can look it up on the web., it is a lot of reading with many other election cases sited with it.
> 
> This is one of the reasons the election is so hot, our Supreme Court has many aging members and the next president will get to replace any that retire.


Thanks for the clarity.

Isn't it an obvious conflict of interest..especially when they can remain anonymous?

I read somewhere that total campaign contributions combined is over 2 billion dollars. Wow.


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## kawboy

The Laughing Magpie said:


> You just don't quit there is no reason for this on a dog forum. Not everyone is unemployed and none of us know what goes on in anothers shoes or bed. This kind of talk is not productive...I knew you were going here, because the way you started the thread. We really don't need this.


My hypothetical story wasn't intended to suggest everyone is unemployed and it had nothing to do with anyone's sex life. It was a simple example of the hardships many family's are experiencing. I have been very fortunate to be employed over the last four years and it sounds like you are doing fine also. Too many folks have not been nearly as lucky as we have. If we had a president who understands how the economy works and stopped the job killing policies based on his ideology we wouldn't be dealing with the chronic high unemployment we have. The only thing I want in life right now is to listen to Obama's concession speech on Nov 7th.


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## kawboy

atsilvers27 said:


> Hmm, so far this thread has not crashed and burned so that's a credit to the forum members I think. All I have to add is I think if people want to go "in" there are more appropriate venues. I do have to say my mother personally knows Mitt Romney and I know some individuals that have interacted with him. Although my mom is a staunch Democrat she will vigorously vouch for his personal character. He is not really how a lot of the media portray him as he was my mom's bishop and helped out a lot of people in poverty, minorities, people with financial, marriage and addiction problems, etc.


Mitt Romney is a class act despite the way the Obama campaign has tried to portray him. He didn't go to a church with an American hating racist pastor. None of his friends are domestic terrorists. In Obama's own words form 2007, "when you don't have a record to run on you paint your opponent as someone people should run from". Sounds a little like the Obama campaign strategy of 2012 doesn't it?


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## The Laughing Magpie

Naci, Well, not a conflict the court ruled it was legel; to allow unlimited amouts of money to be donated anonymously may be corrupt, this is why who gets to pick the justices is important, as it can sway the court. In a perfect world it would not matter the court would rule on points of law, but they are human. 

The really sad thing is most people are looking at a narrow picture, of course this is important to them, but there are broader issues. 

As for buying the US hopefully Mansa Musa and Carlos Slim Helu don't have their sights on US.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Now the religion...I think I will go play with my pups they are never predictable!


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## kawboy

I have one dog on each side of me on the couch. Molly went to the groomer today and she is soooooo cute when you can see her face. We just finished watching The O'Reilly Factor and now it's Hannity. Molly likes O'Reilly but Tasha is more hard line conservative and prefers Hannity.


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## dodrop82

Yogi and Boo Boo are ALL about Obama!!! They've never voted before in their life, but they're gonna this year! Cause they feel pretty adament about THIS!!! And I support them, cause I know how darm smart they are!


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## rokipiki

Wow! I am reporter and columnist (from Europe) covering US politics for last 20 years. Since I read tons of stuff from US media every day, I can write a story or column almost in no time. But not now! Not about this election! It is kind of strange and seems to me that whole US political system is in BIG crisis. It is absurd that whole race for White house narrows down to eight swing states and that candidates spend almost all their campaign money in those states. Well, Nixon campaigned in all 50 states and Kennedy had intensive campaign in 45 states. That was interesting! The other thing is that both candidates suffer from chronic lack of ideas. it is kind of boringa and a bit scary.
People in other countries are interested in US election. When US sneezes, Europe gets nasty flu - that is definition of what happened during last five years with all those economic, finacial and other kinds of crises. US foreign policy is not so impotrat to voters in US, but is EXTREMELY important for us. If next president gives support to Israel for bombing Iran we could find ourselves in the middle of somethin that is going to be VERY hard to control. And Tel Aviv is two hours flight from my hometown and Teheran three hours. Practically it is in my neighbour's backyard. 
Kawboy, what's wrong with european welfare (socialist) state concept? The main idea of that system is to protect people, their life, their health, families and future! Best embodiments of that system are Scandinvian states. health care free, education (university inc.) free, each and every child gets fair financial support money the day he/she is born untill he graduates from school, hospices and homes for elderly free... It is capitalism with human face! And they are extremely hard working people! Europe is so proud of that concept and we are ready to fight for it. Roosewelt had the same idea for America, but unfortunately he died too early.


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## Missy

About Campaign Finance... I work for the documentary series FRONTLINE (just doing their promotion, not as a journalist) but I have to say I have been truly impressed by our reporting on this election and some issues surrounding it. Especially this last program we did on campaign finance called "Big Sky, Big Money." The two hour film on the two candidates "The Choice 2012"-was also a fabulous dual biography

Of course I am biased (about the program) FRONTLINE, although on PBS, has a reputation for truly being fair and balanced. Of course there is no true unbiased reporting, the best any journalist can hope for is to be balanced and judicious and thorough. But if you want to check out the show, or the reporting around it, on the web site, here is the link to our site. you can watch the programs on line too. of course local stations repeat our programs often so you can check local listings as well.

www.pbs.org/frontline

sorry for the sales pitch, but I think it these films are great!


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## rokipiki

Thanks a lot Missy! Great link!


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## narci

Thanks rokipiki and miss...always good to get other points of views.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Marina, Our system has changed in the last many years in a series of court decisions. Many Americans do care about foreign policy. One of our failings as Americans is we let things get personal, a truely seasoned and good Negotiator never falls for that, they keep the big picture in sight, each side will need a concession to reach a livable agreement. We have a reputation of being "Ugly Americans" when we travel and there is a reason for that.

This is the first time a candiate traveled abroad to another country and solicited campaign donations, in a hot zone with a very precarious place in the world, with the help of the government of that country. This while we have a sitting president trying to promote diplomacy in that region. For me it's not who did it, as it is legel today; It is that any candiate could and would. So what will happen in the next elections...prehaps the Saudi's, Iran, The sultan of Brunei, or a Drug Lord from Central or South America, or a conglomerate will step up to the donation plate...Preposterous...we no longer get to know. 

Also many Americans although some have traveled outside the country, mostly as tourist's, have no idea of life in other countries and every country is different, it's not only customs and rules, it's mind sets...we do not all think alike or what the same things and our core values are different...as Americans we need to understand different, does not make it wrong.

These are the reasons I don't like the idea of a political thread, it does not bother me for people to dicuss our election process, rules or goverment, it's the personal level of attacts that make it ugly and mean this election year and last. The media hypes these issues creating smoke screens obscuring core issues that will be in place and impact our children and generations to come. I truely feel that people should know the broad picture and then vote...however they feel. The President although important is only one part of our political system.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Missy, I love PBS. I love the calmness of the reporting.


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## rokipiki

Robbie, I agree with that about attacks on personal level. That's really ugly! But politics is integral part of our lives and I think that polite discussion, even on dog forum, is OK! The better political system, the better life for us and our pups! 
Let's make serious things more fun! Imagine our pups running campaigns as candidates for hav-president on our forum! Slogans - "Premium treats for every dog!", "No kibble, just meat!", "Havanese dog park in every comunity!" LOL!


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## Missy

my boys are opposites and they get along! (any excuse to repost this picture)


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## dodrop82

My son had me watch that Frontline show on PBS. It was excellant!


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## irnfit

I'm really scared about this election. It is only 5 days away and we are no where near getting power restored. And what about all the people who have lost their homes and are displaced???


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## SOPHIES-MOM

I am amazed that so many people are actually that enthused about either candidate.


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## SOPHIES-MOM

I've voted and I voted against a candidate rather than for one. Pretty sad.


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## Thumper

As a small business owner, it has been rough.. I can only agree that we should all get out and vote! No excuses,

I have seen political threads ruin friendships on THIS forum, so I can also attest to that happening, sadly. 

Kara


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## kawboy

rokipiki said:


> Wow! I am reporter and columnist (from Europe) covering US politics for last 20 years. Since I read tons of stuff from US media every day, I can write a story or column almost in no time. But not now! Not about this election! It is kind of strange and seems to me that whole US political system is in BIG crisis. It is absurd that whole race for White house narrows down to eight swing states and that candidates spend almost all their campaign money in those states. Well, Nixon campaigned in all 50 states and Kennedy had intensive campaign in 45 states. That was interesting! The other thing is that both candidates suffer from chronic lack of ideas. it is kind of boringa and a bit scary.
> People in other countries are interested in US election. When US sneezes, Europe gets nasty flu - that is definition of what happened during last five years with all those economic, finacial and other kinds of crises. US foreign policy is not so impotrat to voters in US, but is EXTREMELY important for us. If next president gives support to Israel for bombing Iran we could find ourselves in the middle of somethin that is going to be VERY hard to control. And Tel Aviv is two hours flight from my hometown and Teheran three hours. Practically it is in my neighbour's backyard.
> Kawboy, what's wrong with european welfare (socialist) state concept? The main idea of that system is to protect people, their life, their health, families and future! Best embodiments of that system are Scandinvian states. health care free, education (university inc.) free, each and every child gets fair financial support money the day he/she is born untill he graduates from school, hospices and homes for elderly free... It is capitalism with human face! And they are extremely hard working people! Europe is so proud of that concept and we are ready to fight for it. Roosewelt had the same idea for America, but unfortunately he died too early.


All the free stuff you alluded to is not free. Someone has to pay for it but government doesn't have any money. Government does not do anything to make money. Government takes it from taxpayers and then uses it to pay the bills. Nothing is free. When you are taxed too much it destroys the economy. You don't have to believe me just take a look at what's happening in Greece and Spain. Are they proud of themselves?


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## Thumper

I live in Virginia and they are driving me CRAZY, the phone calls, the knocking on doors, the flyers in the mail, the flyers tied to my door, stuck on the outside of my mailbox...

And did I mention the calls? My home phone gets about 6 calls a day from the republicans and 6 calls a day from the democrats (on average) today, I think I got around 15 as the election looms closer.

I cannot WAIT for the swing state harrassement to stop, I imagine it is just as bad for residents of Ohio, seems like they are flying back and forth from Virginia to Ohio,


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## Pixiesmom

Missy said:


> my boys are opposites and they get along! (any excuse to repost this picture)


That should be hanging in a museum.


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## Missy

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=/#/watch?v=OjrthOPLAKM


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## Kathie

Missy, when we were talking "ugly" topics the thought of the Havana Silks came to my mind, too! The worst was the political thread that got downright nasty. Controversy is very unnerving for me and although I don't really want to get into a knockdown drag-out I do have to say I voted for Romney! I respect others right to disagree. Clare, what do the Brits think?


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## Kathie

Missy said:


> my boys are opposites and they get along! (any excuse to repost this picture)


I love that picture, too, Missy! One of the best we've had here!!!


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## TilliesMom

SOPHIES-MOM said:


> I am amazed that so many people are actually that enthused about either candidate.


DITTO! it's like the lesser of 2 evils.. I vote absentee and did my ballot yesterday... noticed that ROSEANNE BARR is running for president!? wth?
How did this go un noticed!? let's all vote for her! bwhahhahhahaa better than the other options!  eace:


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## Missy

Kathy, i agree. it was nasty. and it did wreck some friendships. perhaps this can become a political satire thread. a place to share all the funnies about the election. that way people who want to can voice their preferences through fun stuff. 

the best thing we can all do is VOTE ! it really doesn't matter for who, as long as you do your own homework, come to your own conclusions, and don't let the bullies who's job it is to sway you (on both sides) , sway you from your convictions.


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## whimsy

Well here is a bit of humor! LOL Strong resemblance don't ya think! 
I love all the Saturday night live skits too.ound:


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## Missy

LOL Evelyn.


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## mckennasedona

Evelyn, too funny!


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## atsilvers27

That pic is so funny! I found myself looking back and forth between the two pics to take it in.


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## atsilvers27

I think informative discussion is good but there is always potential to go south.

Personally I started out as a Democrat but switched to Republican, though I'm mor, e to the center. Not too excited about Romney as a politician but he was a decent governor (I am from Massachusetts) and he was much better than the mess of a governor they have now, Deval Patrick. I went to church in the same building as Romney, though his political views have been all over the place he is not the boogeyman the other side makes him out to be.

I want this part of my comment to be about the media and not really go down the religion topic, but earlier in the campaign, since I do follow the news, I really loathed how the media tried to cast Romney in an unsavory light by labeling my religion as a cult and not part of Christianity, using outright false information. There is really more that we have in common than not, and even though I am young I find no point in fixating on the minutia (sp?). I can get along very well with a gay person or someone that doesn't have a religion. I have learned tolerance and respect from my church, and I can only hope that is reciprocated to me. I am glad the media has realized that calling Mormonism a cult never caught traction because it isn't true and that people rejected placing a religious test for the office of the presidency.


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## Kathie

Tammy, Roseanne Barr for president? Now, that IS scary.........haha


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## TilliesMom

lol ... ya, better than the other choices though! ound:


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## evolcire

Funny, on my facebook page politics ran rabid. People unfriending each other one after another.


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## emichel

Atsilvers27, my objection to Romney had nothing to do with his religion, it was his policies and also that he flip-flopped so many times it was difficult to trust what he said after a while. I agree with you that some people made unfair comments about Romney because of his Mormonism. On the other hand, some people never got over castigating Obama for being a Muslim, even though he is not! Imagine if someone was actually a Muslim, how much grief they would have to take! Too many people equate all Muslims with being radical jihadists, or all Mormons as being like the FLDS with many wives, even today. There is a lot of ignorance out there about religion (and other things, of course) to be sure. I'm waiting for a gay athiest president now, ha ha ha. Really, I'm just glad it's all over!

BTW, Tammy -- Roseann Barr is a very liberal progressive person, so I suppose you should be glad she didn't win. 
-- Eileen


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## mellowbo

Missy, Kara, my ulcer is getting stirred up just reading these posts, LOLOLOLOL! Thank God the election is over so I don't have to comment. ROFLMAO, eyes twitching and all..........xxoox


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## ClaireVoyant

LOL, see, I define a flip flopped as one who runs against individual health care mandates in an election, then after, signs a bill into law that fines those who don't buy health insurance. I define a flip flopped as one who promises to hold all health care debates in front of c-Span cameras, then conducts all hearings behind closed doors, away from cameras and won't even let the other side view ppt he bill before voting for it . . .saying "we have to vote for it before we can see what's in it".

I define a flip flopper as one who campaigns on a promise to close Gitmo, then promptly flip flops once he's in office and realizes what a moronic idea THAT was.

And flip flopping on gay marriage not withstanding . . .one of the biggest flip flops in modern day history was his claim that it was downright unpatriotic that W added to the National debt by $4 Trillion dollars in his eight years as President . . .then proceeded to add $6 MORE Trillion dollars in four.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=1kuTG19Cu_Q&desktop_uri=/watch?v=1kuTG19Cu_Q

I've only now been able to discuss this past election without my head spinning, but it is what it is. Come what may (and it won't be pretty), at least we have our furry friends to keep us company as we brace for the next four years. LOL

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## ClaireVoyant

Silly iPad doesn't like the term "flip flopper" much 

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## narci

ClaireVoyant said:


> Silly iPad doesn't like the term "flip flopper" much
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


Maybe Steve Jobs was a Democrat?


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## ClaireVoyant

narci said:


> Maybe Steve Jobs was a Democrat?


LOL, no maybes about it . Oh well, so are some of my bestest pals 

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## irnfit

Mitt Romney stated in his platform that he was going to create 12 million jobs when he was elected. So, he didn't get elected, therefore he is keeping those 12 million jobs a secret. Shame on him.


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## ClaireVoyant

A secret? Romney lost . . .his policies won't be enlisted. It will be the policies of the Obama Administration . . .you know, the one who promised if he could have a trillion dollars in stimulus to stimulate the pockets of his cronies and their green companies that have since gone belly up, we would have 5% unemployment. Why there's 21 million fewer people working today IS the secret 

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## Thumper

sigh, politics!

I have 7 kids, mostly now teens and college age/ early 20's, and I have noticed they are quite disgruntled and pessimistic against BOTH parties, and I do feel that their generation (or one shortly thereafter) will likely push for the creation of a 3rd party, or somehow, the Green party, or Libertarian, or whatever it will be called is just ripe for the taking right now, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we all see a 3 party government system in our lifetimes, I even know a few people who voted for Gary Johnson (Libertarian), and I was over hearing this conversation of this younger generation and their thoughts on how any 3rd parties never get much of a chance, via debates, press, etc. and I think its just a matter of time before one of the other parties gains some power,people are just sick of the deadlock, and something needs to happen.

Kara


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## ClaireVoyant

I would truly love to see the Libertarian Party become a bigger player . . .but in today's climate of two party system and the way they're funded, I just don't see that happening.

As for gridlock, that's not always a bad thing. When one party had control of both the House and Senate and controlled the White House, the leaders in the Senate ended filibustering by striking a deal with former Senator Arlen Specter. He switched parties, giving Democrats the super majority in the Senate and prevented filibustering so that Democrats didn't have to negotiate with Republicans on health care. Instead, they were able to ramrod it through both the House and Senate without so much as a single Republican vote and then signed into law by the President.

Of course, that maneuver cost Democrats control of the House and a return to filibustering when they lost their super majority in the following midterm 2010 election.

Which is why Democrats . . .unable to have a super majority in the Senate the "old fashioned way" . . .are working on ending filibuster privileges of the minority party by way of rules change.

Gridlock was purposefully and artfully placed in the Constitution by its framers for the express purpose of preventing one party from running roughshod over the country. That's why there's three independent branches of government . . .it was designed to be a stopgap measure to prevent dictatorship. Until now, it's worked admirably.

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## Missy

mellowbo said:


> Missy, Kara, my ulcer is getting stirred up just reading these posts, LOLOLOLOL! Thank God the election is over so I don't have to comment. ROFLMAO, eyes twitching and all..........xxoox


LOLOLOLOL Carole...so many fond memories! nope not gonna engage this time!


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## ClaireVoyant

LOL, the thread title makes the content pretty clear . . .and clicking is still a choice . . .enter at your own peril 

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## narci

Now that the election is over, what needs to happen is that both parties have set aside their personal differences to work together and plan out what's best for America and it's people.

No 1 party is 100% correct but if you take the good points from both, you can come closer to solving issues.


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## ClaireVoyant

Problem is, compromise is defined as Republicans caving and Democrats get what they asked for. Case in point: in August 2011, Washington hit the debt ceiling and the President needed the debt limit raised to continue to function. Republicans said fine, we'll raise your limit, provided you make budget cuts . . .Dems said we'll agree to cuts beginning in Jan. 2013 if you will give us the debt ceiling raise now. Republicans, believing Democrats were sincere in their promise to make cuts, caved, the limit was raised and S&P lowered our credit score for the first time in US history because Republicans were rolled like weenies.

Now we have the so called "fiscal cliff" looming and the president says give me the tax increases and we'll decide what to cut LATER. but this is a spending problem not a tax problem and not addressing budget cuts IS what's sending us over this cliff.

It's so bad . . .the last two budgets the President has sent to Congress were so outrageous in spending, they were voted down by 100% of Congress (see? Democrats and Republicans CAN agree the President is a tax and spend politician).

We have to do something, here . . .the debt ceiling limit must be raised again next month . . .and the time is ticking on this fiscal cliff. Congress will soon leave Washington for Winter Break . . .while the President shuffles off for his three week Hawaiian vacation. None of these people have earned the break . . .we're sitting on the edge and short of a miracle, we're ALL falling off.

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## goiter6

The "Fiscal Cliff" is the compromise from the debt ceiling debate.


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## kawboy

What is happening with the fiscal cliff issue is the president is trying to make it look like republicans fault no matter how it plays. This is in the hopes that democrats will gain control of the house in the next midterm election. This is how slimy Chicago politics works. Hold the entire nations economy hostage for political gain. It amazes me that nobody who voted to give Obama a second term thinks there is any chance we are heading for an economic collapse. Our system is truly broken and four years from now it might just be irreparable. Obamacare is starting to create the problems so many of us knew were coming. We have a tax on medical devices set to start at the first of the year. Now we have democrat senators trying to get the tax postponed or repealed. One major maker of medical devices has notified employees that 1000 workers will lose their jobs. Problem is obamacare needs the 29 billion this tax will generate. Once again we have a new entitlement program the government will not be able to pay for. Hide your money because the government will be looking for it as it heads to bankruptcy.


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## atsilvers27

My point was more to the fact that the media has and always will be in the bag for Obama. Romney may have been doomed from the get-go BC of his flopping around, but Obama has also changed views IE gay marriage, except when it's Obama it's called "evolving" and is largely ignored by the media. Unfortunately Americans voted for the the obscure "cool" guy that votes present as a senator so he has no record to get picked at vs the talented awkward guy. My husband predicted the last recession and he's saying we're headed into another one. And you might just want to hire a good tax accountant.


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