# Potty Training in an Apartment?



## Lina

Hello everyone! I'm new here and have yet to get my own Hav... I'm waiting for the ultrasound on Wednesday to see if there will be enough puppies for me to get one for myself. The puppies are due mid-May and if I do get one of them (keep fingers crossed), I won't actually have her until August. However, I'm an over-planner in that I plan things out even years in advance because I just like having an idea about where things are going in my life and around it. Not that you all needed to know that. 

Anyway, I've been reading this forum for a while now and I've been researching Havanese for at least a year and a half. I'm really thinking about using the bell method as well as keeping pee pads in an x-pen. I've read through a lot of people's posts on using the bell but I've yet to read of someone who lived in an apartment. Is it possible to get a dog bell trained in an apartment (at least two floors up)? In addition, I live in New York City which means that I don't have a yard that I can just let the dog out to. I would have to take her down on a leash.

Any suggestions and comments are appreciated!

Thanks!


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## Laurief

Lina, congrats on your decision to get a precious Hav!! I do not bell train my guys, only because I felt that they would drive me crazy just trying to go out an play, when they dont really have to go potty. I dont see any reason why it wouldnt work where you live. Keep us up to date with the sonogram!! 
Laurie


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## good buddy

Hello Lina! A big welcome to you from one over planner to another LOL!! I know just where your coming from! <G> I haven't even gotton my Hav yet and I just found a great deal on a grooming table this week! Free! good deal huh?

I think if you read the "Stairs" thread you'll see that Capote's Mom just got her new pup and she's in a thrid floor apartment. Maybe you two can trade helpful hints.


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## CapotesMom

Ahh the bell method. A long lost ideal that has gone the way of the cuckoo.. 

Maybe someday I'll get him to ring a bell when he wants to go to the bathroom. For now I'll settle for when he goes on his pee pad. As much as I love cleaning up little puddles from heaven, I can't wait till he's housebroken. He goes outside everytime I take him out..it's just those times in between that frustrate you. Will it ever end? Good lord I hope so...


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## Havtahava

Lina, welcome to the forum!

For a puppy in an apartment, I really think bell training would be a defeating goal. When a puppy feels that urge, it is a pretty immediate need. However, when he is older, it will be a lot more feasible, but moreso because you have him on a schedule. One of my adult Havs recently moved to an apartment on the east coast and they were so good about taking him out regularly so things were successful. I will ask them if he ever gave them notice that he needed to go when they weren't ready, but I think his bladder & bowels were mature enough to wait until they could get downstairs and outdoors.

From one planner to another, I would recommend that you prepare for a potty area indoors until he is a bit more mature.


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## juliav

Welcome to the forum Lina,

You've got a lot of good advice from everyone on potty training. I will keep my fingers crossed that there will be enough puppies for you. 

Best of luck,


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## CapotesMom

Potty areas are a good idea and all, but don't really work. I had about 6 pee pads scattered about the living and dining room..sprayed with stuff that was 'supposed' to make them want to go there. Well..he'd go NEAR there...or in the round-about area...but never ON the pee pad. The only time he uses the pee pad is when he's in his expen when I'm gone at work (THANK THE LORD!) ...but if I'm here and he has free reign he goes where he squats. 

What I'm starting to discover is if you THINK it's time for him to go out, it more than likely is. So get off your rump and take him out...because when you're thinking he can make it a COUPLE more minutes cause you're busy with something, that's when he goes..and then you're mad at yourself..lol.


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## Lina

Thanks for all the welcomes!

I definitely think that being in an apartment makes it much harder to use the bell training since it does take a while to go downstairs and by that point the puppy will probably be ready to explode.  I'm definitely going to have a designated potty area, even if she'll have problems always going there, like little Capote there (who is so cute, btw)!

I'm thinking maybe I'll just try my hardest to keep to a schedule and go from there, as Kimberly suggested... I really hope to hear from the breeder that I've got the puppy! I'll let you all know if I'm going to get one as soon as I know.


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## dotndani

Hey Lina,
WELCOME from a fellow New Yorker!!!!I got my Hav just recently and he was 8 weeks when we got home.Ihave to tell you that they are very smart dogs.Duncan will pee on a peepee pad,as well as scratch at the door to go potty.
We take him out in the am,after naps,and several times during the day.He sleeps in his crate and even goes in now on his own and takes naps there.
He DOES NOT like to be penned up,but I have to put him their while I take my daughters to school and that's for all of 10-15 minutes.He just won't be quiet.They really really are velcro dogs.
Good Luck to you and I hope you get your HAv really soon!!
Dot


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## marjrc

Hi Lina! Your post caught my attention because my daughter's name is Lina and I don't see it that often.  Welcome!

I hope you get your pup with this litter and not have to wait for another one. Once we make up our minds about getting our Hav, it's torture to have to WAIT!!  Good luck!

I agree that the bell training won't work so well for you. 

Mindy, Capote is still very young and there will be many piddles that dont' quite make it to the pee pad for a while yet, i think. Maybe if you wiped up a spill with one or more of your pads and left them on the floor so he might see that THAT is where the pee needs to be. He'll smell it on there and might figure it out. Not to discourage you, but Ricky was 6 months old before he was trustworthy around the house - no 'accidents' - BUT he's now 9 months and in the past week, he's peed on the floor about 6-7 times!  sigh...... 

Giving Capote a large area to roam in when you're home is going to make training him more challenging. I learned that too late, but if I had another baby, I would keep him gated in an even smaller area than what I had Ricky in. It helps you keep a closer eye on him. I was constantly watching Ricky and basically couldn't do much else. It was a little stressful.


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## Julie

Welcome to the forum,and good luck with your new puppy when he/she arrives.....keep us all posted!The waiting is the hardest part!


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## Thumper

I agree with Kimberly. It will be easier to really do the outside training when they are a tad older. 

I put the pee pad in her Xpen and keep the Xpen open a little so she can come in and out as she pleases and I also keep a pee pad in the laundry room.

Gucci trained VERY QUICKLY to use the pads and has had very few accidents since we got her. I just really watched her like a hawk the first few days and when she started sniffing around I put her on the pad, she learned quickly! 

I am presently training her to the outside now. She will be 4 months old this Friday and she is doing well. She knows what "go potty" means and will go on command (if she needs to). She is using both the pads and the outdoors and it works out great for our family! She will NOT go outside if it is raining or snowing, so that presents a bit of a challenge! lol She likes the water, but just not when it is falling out of the sky! lol...I hope that changes at some point.

Anyhow, good luck! I found potty pad training/housebreaking to be much easier than I anticipated! Havanese are very smart dogs!

Kara


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## Lynn

For alot of you new moms some of the things I learned with my dog during the potty training might help you now; they need to sleep in their crate at night, (at 6 months old we took Casper out of his crate, because he was doing so good with his potty training and let him sleep on the bed with us, well now he roams the house at night while we sleep and he pees!) -I know they would say put him back in his crate but we both like him sleeping on the bed. 

So I am back getting up in the middle of the night taking him outside to potty, if I wake up. 

Lynn


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## CapotesMom

Is it mean to keep him in his expen all day while you're home?? I keep him there all day when I'm at work and I feel like when I get home I have to pay LOTS of attention to him to make up for me being gone..and thats hard to do when he's in the pen and I'm not. 

He's good in his pen..pees on his pad. And when he's in his crate at night he doesn't potty so he's good there too.


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## Lina

Thanks for all the good lucks and advice! I can't wait until I get a puppy home! I really do hope the waiting is the hardest part, because it's been really hard not to think about it, even though I'm incredibly busy this week.

Oh and Marj, Lina is actually my nickname for some friends from college. My actual name is Carolina (no, not pronounced like the state... like Caro-Leena), and I really don't like Carol for many reasons and my nickname around my family is strictly for family, so my friends took to calling me Lina.


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## marjrc

I never would have thought Lina was short for Carolina! Cool. 

Dot, I dont' think it's cruel to keep Duncan in his xpen even if you're at home. Do you leave the door open to it while you're home? Does he have access to your whole house or are there gates up to restrict him? The bigger the space they have to roam in, the harder it is to housetrain them. I had Ricky in our kitchen and dining room and it was a little too big a space, but I didn't know until he was about 5 mths. old and couldn't find a way to reduce the space anyway! 

I realize you feel guilty and want to give a lot of your attention when you're home, but sometimes just being around him and letting him know you're there is enough. You can be busy with other things and chatting with him, stopping once in a while to play and cuddle. 

I gave Ricky loads of attention because I'm a SAHM, but I realized that I'd better stop a bit and let him learn to amuse himself or I'd risk having a very clingy pup, which I didn't want. I found that has worked best for me, being around if and when he needs/wants me, but also letting him know that I can be busy doing something that doesn't involve him and he will survive.  lol It takes time, so don't worry too much. You're doing great!


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## dotndani

Marj,
thank you so much for your encouraging words.I am a SAHM for the most part,I only work 2 days a week,but Duncan is with my kids and MIL when I leave and hubby comes home a few hours after that.
I will try and be patient and hopefully all works itself out.

Lina,
where in NY are you??In the city???We should get together when you get your pup if you're not too far away.As my avatar says I live in Queens,and there's another nY'r here from Long Island.


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## Lina

Dot,
I'm actually in Queens too (Astoria) but I will be moving before I get the puppy to Manhattan (Upper East Side probably). We should definitely get together then! I would love for the puppy to be around other Havs. 

Marj,
Lina short for Carolina is definitely unusual. I only have two friends who call me that. Online I like to use it because you wouldn't believe how easily people mis-spell Carolina by either using an e or a y... it just makes things easier.


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## Kathy

I am confused by some comments regarding keeping a puppy in the xpen.

The xpen should only be a tool in my opinion. A place where the puppy can be safe while you aren't available to watch him/her. If you want a puppy housetrained, keeping it in an xpen all the time won't do the trick. When you are home, there will be times when you can't watch the puppy constantly, so putting it in the xpen would be fine. When you are home though, I feel the time in the xpen should be minimal. Puppies are like human toddlers, they need to explore to learn what is right and what is wrong. They need constant supervision so they don't chew on electrical cords, find something on the floor so small we miss being 5 feet plus from the floor, <grin> and they rely on you for direction just as they did their canine mother.

Just my two cents,


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## Havtahava

> I am confused by some comments regarding keeping a puppy in the xpen.
> 
> The xpen should only be a tool in my opinion. A place where the puppy can be safe while you aren't available to watch him/her.


 Thank you for commenting on that. If you have to leave the puppy unsupervised for a while, then an ex-pen with potty pads is obviously better than expecting him to ring a bell that no one would hear.

Mindy, if you are home, I wouldn't keep him in an ex-pen except when it is not safe to have him out (e.g. cooking and he is underfoot).


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## CapotesMom

see..thats what I thought! But on others advice I've had him in there tonight while I was watching TV or something and he's been playing and eating and resting without a sound. Which lets me relax from watching him like a hawk all night (I can't say THATS all that bad..) so he doesn't pee on the carpet again. I let him run around the apt a bit just after I took him out but I want him to get to know where to go when he has to potty..and thats near the door where his pee pad and his expen is. 

When my dad was training our Lhasa when I was a kid I remember she was always in her expen near the door with newspapers at first. She was housebroken..so maybe there's something to be said for it while he's still a puppy. At least till he learns where to go..


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## marjrc

I agree that you won't want to keep him in the pen ALL the time. I did notice, though, that the larger the area our 10 wk. old pup was in, the more I had to have eyes all around my head! It was a lot of hard work and lasted months. To do it all over again, I'd have a penned area, large enough for him to roam and play, but small enough that I could breathe a bit and not feel so stressed that I was missing a chance to correct possible accidental peeing where it shouldn't be. I'd take the pup out often, but that would be when all I had to do is watch and play with him.

I would also use pee pads next time!! Mind you, I tried twice with Ricky when he was 10 weeks old and he immediately grabbed them, shook them to death and wanted to shred them.  That was that! lol


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## Tom King

bump (so I can find this thread easily tomorrow to post to)


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## Tom King

Potty training needs to be done as a progression. 

The first step is that the pup is 100% going in the expen in the right place. 

When a pup is at first by itself in it's new home we recommend that the expen be folded in so that it's 2x4 with the potty area, whether pad or litter box, is on one end towards where the pup's people will be when it wakes up. Once I have a pup by itself the expen is in the room where my chair is and the litter box is in that end. As soon as the pup wakes up it will automatically come towards me and go into the litter box. I use the desire to come out of the pen as incentive to "go potty" before the pup is allowed to come out and play. I go and stand next to the end where the box is and give the command "go potty"-no eye contact, no smiling, no nothing until the puppy squats to pee. The INSTANT the job is finished I pick the pup up and make much of it and let it run around like a wild thing to play. It usually only takes a couple of days and I will have the pup squatting to pee whether it has to or not on command.

After the pup is 100% going to the box in the 2x4, next another corner is opened up on one end and the box put in the new end so that there is a 2x2 bed area, a 2x2 open area, and the potty area in the other 2x2. If the pup potties on the floor in the pen you need to go back to the 2x4 for a day or so and then try the expansion again.

Once the pup is 100% in the L shaped pen, you can try opening it all the way up, but be prepared to go backwards in size if necessary.

The next stage is to open one side of the pen when you let the pup out to play so that you can play with the pup near the pen and it can go back into the box in the pen to potty. The play area is gradually made larger until the pup has the run of the whole room and will go back to the box. The pup HAS to have CONSTANT supervision. It doesn't count as constant if everything is forgotten and the pup left to run around when the phone rings. If you have to leave the play area while the pup is out he goes back in the pen.

Potty areas staged around the room will not work to start with. The transition can be made to having a potty area but it has to be part of a transition with small steps.

No accidents on the floor is the right number. If the pups have been raised from the start not knowing anything but going in a box or on pads it greatly simplifies things. Yes, no accidents is possible. Our last 5 dogs at least have NEVER pottied on the floor-Roxie, Belle, Posh, Razzle, and Frolic.

The answer to the problem of "accidents" on the floor is that there is too much freedom and/or you are not paying attention. To be able to give complete attention to the pup the first few days is priceless. When the pup is running around playing it will always give some sort of signal that it needs to go potty. Males will have to sniff for a spot and circle, if only for a few seconds, and females will walk a bit differently, if only for a few steps, but they do give a signal.

I call this potty training and say that potty training is separate from house training. Potty training needs to come first, especially for a young puppy.


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## marjrc

Tom wrote:* "The answer to the problem of "accidents" on the floor is that there is too much freedom and/or you are not paying attention. To be able to give complete attention to the pup the first few days is priceless. When the pup is running around playing it will always give some sort of signal that it needs to go potty."*

**** I completely agree.  It's a lot of work, but having a smaller space for the pup makes it easier.


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## vfeldman

I totally agree with Tom. The dilemna I have is that Jazz is my third Havanese and she is definitely the 3rd wheel and wants to be where the other two are (which is all over the house); so I am confining all with me in a particular room so that I have more control; the kitchen, bedroom, etc; but she has been known to sneak off which MY supervision problem. Then I get pretty good at it and my 3 kids come home.....it is a constant struggle for me; she will paw at the door; stand at the door; tonight she wouldn't go after 3 attempts, I thought she just wanted to play. She promptly came back in and squatted! UGH I feel guilty separting her from the others because she feels that she is being excluded.


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## CapotesMom

since I've been keeping capote in his pen I haven't had one accident. It's been about 5 days now..I'd say that's progress. I still don't trust him enough to let him roam around the house..but he's not using his pee pad either..unless I'm not home cause I'm working a long shift, he holds it until I take him out.. But I'm sure if I let him run about the house he'd squat wherever he can..


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## radar_jones

I agree with what Tom says but I have a follow up question to this. Do you still incorporate crate training with the ex-pen? Can you hook up the ex-pen with the crate for sleeping at night and still have that confined 2X4 area for potty or are the two methods separate. Maybe hooking the ex-pen to the Crate will give the best of both worlds. you get the privacy of the Crate with the training potential of the ex-pen for the benefits of "No-Accidents". 

Derek


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## radar_jones

Or can you simply put a little bed in there for little Hav. And what's the fundamental difference between Potty Training and House Training with regards to the tools used in both training methods?

Derek


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## Tom King

We only use the crates for the pups to sleep in and then only a day or two before they go home. The expens have a variety of blankets and beds in them for pups to dig in, under, and be able to make a comfortable place for them to sleep. The size is important for potty training purposes. If they pee on the floor or bedding, they have too much room. We suggest that new guardians start with the expen folded in to 2 x 4 but it can quickly be expanded as the pups get used to their new surrounding.

Remember that potty training problems primary causes are too much freedom and not paying attention.

Also you have to be diligent to keep clean bedding in the pen so that they get used to thinking that it's the way it's supposed to be. When our pups have their bedding changed a number of times a day. When they are just a couple of weeks old through the time when they start eating food and are weaning off their mother they will leak some before they can get to the box even though they still go in the box. If they are used to clean bedding they get excited when they see it coming.

We have a system with the litter that ours never think about there being any other way than going in the box. Litter makes it easy to transition to anything else. All you have to do is put a handful of litter where you want them to go. We send new puppies home with a piddle pad folded around a handful of litter. That way the new owner can place that on the car floor or airport or airplane on the way home and fold it back up to put in a ziplock bag. Never heard of it not working.

To me potty training means that they go where you want them to in a very controlled environment and even by command. House training means that you can trust them not to forget with almost unlimited freedom.

They need lots of play time so even from a few weeks old they are taken out of the pen to play right after they potty. Later steps open the side of the expen and play with them close until they will go back to the box on their own. This will work every time with the proper progression. We like litter better than pads or newspaper for several reasons but they seem to go to it better if they are out than they will to piddle pads. We have trained them to newspaper, pads, and litter but like the litter best.

You have to pay attention though. Paying attention doesn't include forgetting that the pup is loose when the telephone rings.

We send pups home potty trained to the litter box but it's easy to mess up. A good start has to help though. I wouldn't want to take a pup who had been raised on a grid floor, like puppy mills do, who have had no incentive to do anything but let it fly anytime and anywhere.

They have the instinct not to soil their bed to start with. Use it to your advantage. We have kept putting a box in with puppies at younger and younger ages and have learned that it's not possible to introduce them to it too early.

I know a number of Havanese who have NEVER had an accident on the floor.

Anyone who says they are hard to housetrain is wrong. You do have to know what you are doing though and have some good advice if you start having problems. I'd say that probably half of our new owners start having problems at some point but Pam or I are able to get them through it quickly if they call.

Assumptions are no replacement for experience.


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## Tom King

I missed the question on crate connected to expen. We don't. Nothing wrong with it, we just don't do it. They sleep in the crate at night in our bedroom. A litter box needs to be a few steps away. They will sleep all night long but when a 10 week old pup wakes up they have to go RIGHT NOW. The time will be short until they can hold it longer but at this stage they are still babies and still learning.

At this early stage they are learning mostly by forming habits instead of understanding. As they age their understanding increases to the point that it's really astounding. Set them up to succeed.

Also I've found with new owners who use treats to teach pottying that it's really easy for them to get in trouble. Several people who got our puppies used other advice and started the treat method and started having problems. Pam spent hours on the phone with them, usually the same thing over and over, and went back to the beginning to achieve success. One lady called crying ready for us to take the pup back and Pam finally asked if she wanted to give the pup up or she wanted to fix the problem. The lady said that she loved the pup but her husband was going to make her give it up. Up until then she had been unwilling to accept that the other treat method wouldn't work. The pup was pottying in front of her to get the treat and even waking up in the night pretending to potty to get a treat. She finally agreed to do what Pam said to do. Things were quickly turned back around and this lady now has two Havanese and is a good spokesperson for the breed.

If you start having trouble ask for advice from your breeder right away. We don't use treats, other than incentive to get out of the expen, to potty train.


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## Eileen Marshall

Great Advise Tom, It has worked with Ben. I love it when he runs like hell for the litter box. It is also a good idea to bring one in the car if your out for a couple of hours. he wines if he has to go and he is in his crate. I pulled off the road and did not have to get out of the car with him. 
The x pen, litter box this has been the bigest help. It has taken all the fustration out of training a puppy.


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## radar_jones

Hi All. Well My Wife and I are using the ex-pen for potty training. We went to a movie tonight and left the little guy in the ex-pen. It was 2X4 and we had in there his litter box, his bed and some water for him. Well we came home and found that he had pooed on the floor and was barking. It seems that the ex-pen area, which was 2X4 Feet had a space between the litter box and the bed area. So he went potty in the space between the two. It was on the floor. My Wife held him while I cleaned it up and put the enzyme cleaner on it. I don't understand. I thought that the space would be enough for him to be able to eliminate and not have anywhere else to roam around and go to potty. I guess the space has to be made smaller then. The only problem is now that the area is so small that he can't move anywhere else but in the litter box. Should I keep the set up the same (2X4) and use newspaper in the ex-pen on the floor or should I keep shrinking the space so that he is so restricted that he can't possibly go anywhere else. any Suggestions?

Thanks

Derek


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## Tom King

Give him another chance and push the box a little closer to his bed even if it leaves a little space on the other side of the box. Ours have the advantage that they were started really early but we figured that out though trial and error. He will probably catch on pretty quickly. He is just not in the habit yet. At an early age it has to be habit. Understanding will come later. Getting out of bed to potty is a good start, he just has to be set up to succeed.


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## radar_jones

Morning All. It's just after 7:30 in the a.m. down here. The little guy went #2 in the litter box this morning. I think the agony in the ex-pen yesterday got him a tiny bit used to it which is a good thing thast and My Wife and I shrunk the ex-pen even further last night so it's like a closet. Hey has anyone ever had a situation where a Husband or Father has shaved off a beard or moustache and have had their pup see them for the first time without any facial hair and get all weird like they don't even know who you are? I shaved part of my beard last night and this morning when Radar saw me he wasn't as affectionate as he usually is. He wasn't licking my face as much as usual. I just figured he was wondering "who the hell are you and why are you here?" Funny Stuff.

Derek


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## Missy

I think there is a lot of stress about potty training. I know we sure had it as the only havanese we knew before we got Jasper had never been trained and did her biz where ever she felt like it. I from experience with 2 now, I agree with Tom that it is a process. You have to go from convinement to giving them more and more space. And you have to expect some mistakes. But I have found catching them in the act is a wonderful training tool. 

Lina, We have chosen to train them for inside and out. We have a potty room in a closed off section of our garage that they access through a doggy door. It's a about 4 months that we start them going out there-- until them we place the pads in a tray in front of the doggy door so the pups get used to running from there from anywhere in the house. In in apartment, maybe you have an extra closet? or part of a bathroom... We found that if we focus soley on inside pottying until it is ingrained in their heads (about 5 months) then transition to outside (which they take to naturally) they still remember they have an inside option and that it's not confusing. 

Both my boys were 6 months before I felt truly comfortable with their being house trained. But we still leave them in the kitched and sun room (with access to their potty room) when we are gone or cannot watch them. 

For us it has been a great solution. It's not often, but there are few times when it will be 10 hours before we can get home. And I feel that they have an option if they can't hold it. 

The one problem I have found with this method is they still think it's ok to go in petco ound:


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## radar_jones

I enjoy reading about other experiences on this forum. It makes me feel like I'm not alone when it comes to the potty training method. I had thought about some of the information that I had read about potty training and I read once that Havs are not that prone to going potty in the kitchen because it reminds them of their den and then it hit me. Radar has since gone everywhere in the apartment except for the bathroom (easy to restrict access) and the kitchen....ODD...:suspicious: Then I thought about the "Catching Them in the Act" method. Wouldn't that be of no use of they have been potty trained using the Ex-Pen. I thought about making him a little Puppy Play area complete with covered floor for easy clean-up and even a little potty area with his litter box and a custom feeding area where there is a feeding device with a timer that drops food down for him and is set for a specific time of the day so he can have lunch delivered, y'know like Domino's Pizza.....:biggrin1: Even an area where chew toys are kept and he can have all these areas separate. Now keep in mind this will be when he's been fully trained and will be a very special thing for him becasue he can have his own place sorta-speak to get away from things like a teenager....:biggrin1: 

Maybe I'll build it for his first birthday.

Derek


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## good buddy

radar_jones said:


> I thought about making him a little Puppy Play area complete with covered floor for easy clean-up and even a little potty area with his litter box and a custom feeding area where there is a feeding device with a timer that drops food down for him and is set for a specific time of the day so he can have lunch delivered, y'know like Domino's Pizza.....:biggrin1: Even an area where chew toys are kept and he can have all these areas separate. Now keep in mind this will be when he's been fully trained and will be a very special thing for him becasue he can have his own place sorta-speak to get away from things like a teenager....:biggrin1:
> 
> Maybe I'll build it for his first birthday.
> 
> Derek


Hi Derek! I'm glad to hear about Radar's successful #2! :whoo: Maybe I'm wrong but it's my understanding that the ex-pen area...once your dog is a bit more reliable about using the litter IS supposed to be the Puppy Play Area. It should have a bed or crate, water, litter box and some room to play toys...but maybe it's not so necessary to have an automatic feeder lol! I would think that seeing you bring the food each time re-establishes that you are the Alpha--the provider. What do you think?


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## radar_jones

Well I would agree that the Ex-Pen area should be for playtime but what about the rest of the apartment? If the puppy is proven to be reliable wouldn't it be better for play time to have a bigger area for playing with puppy? I wouldn't want to keep getting in and out of the Ex-Pen everytime the dog wanted to play which explains the method used by Tom King where he opens up the ex-pen for play time so that the hav can come out for and then when you can't watch them they go right back in. I would also think that the Ex-Pen would be only really be for leaving the Pup alone when you go Out or when you can't watch them. Leaving them in the ex-pen all the time can sometimes defeat the purpose of potty training them since the positive reinforcement for going potty os coming out of the Pen for playtime.

Thanks for the kudos on the #2 in the pen.

Derek


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## juliav

Derek,

Congratulations to you and Radar on the first successful #2 experience.  He will get the hang of it soon and all the problems will be a distant memory, you just have to be consistant.


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## Tom King

quote:"I would also think that the Ex-Pen would be only really be for leaving the Pup alone when you go Out or when you can't watch them."

This quote is right on target but I think where people have trouble is the "or when you can't watch them" part. When you can't watch them includes things for some people like when the telephone rings, cooking supper, or when you have to take your own potty break.

The goal is zero accidents on the floor and it is achievable. The first "accident" slows up the whole process. Diligence to start with is well rewarded.

When I say open the expen, we don't use the door. We undo the snaps and open one whole side of it up. When the pup goes back to the box while out playing you know you are making progress towards house training.

To teach "go potty", as soon as the pup wakes up I quickly go stand at the end of the expen where the box is and say, "go potty". No baby talk, no smiling, no eye contact, NO NOTHING until the deed is done. The INSTANT the pup is finished he/she is picked up and made much over and let loose to run wild and have fun. I can have any pup squatting to pee, even if it doesn't have to, on command in a couple of evenings as soon as I have one by itself-even at 8 weeks old.


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## radar_jones

Thanks. I think I'll look back on this experiene and laugh about it. He's really a great little guy. Very lively and energetic. He just always wants to play and he's very precious when he's laying on the living room floor catching a snooze or in the crate in the car on a trip. He's a smart dog and will hopefully catch on very fast just like going pee in the litter box right away.

Thanks....:biggrin1: 

Derek


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## good buddy

radar_jones said:


> Well I would agree that the Ex-Pen area should be for playtime but what about the rest of the apartment? If the puppy is proven to be reliable wouldn't it be better for play time to have a bigger area for playing with puppy? I wouldn't want to keep getting in and out of the Ex-Pen everytime the dog wanted to play which explains the method used by Tom King where he opens up the ex-pen for play time so that the hav can come out for and then when you can't watch them they go right back in. I would also think that the Ex-Pen would be only really be for leaving the Pup alone when you go Out or when you can't watch them. Leaving them in the ex-pen all the time can sometimes defeat the purpose of potty training them since the positive reinforcement for going potty os coming out of the Pen for playtime.Derek


I guess maybe I didn't say that well. Yes, I meant that play time should be with out and outside of the ex-pen. :biggrin1: I was only thinking that when you can't watch them 100% they get placed in the ex-pen and I think it's ok to have toys and such in there once they are using the litter area for potty needs.

I don't even have my pup yet, so I'm enjoying following right along with you and your experiences.


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## radar_jones

It's All Good.

:whoo: 

Derek


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## Cosmosmom

I think another person had the same question no too long ago so you may want to look up other threads ..potty training and apartment 
Potty training is always a challenge and you have good days and bad days . I think it has all been covered before confinement crating X pens pee pee pads .. Walking - but remember accidents do happen and they are puppies so if you have expensive rugs or carpet do not expose them to it .. Keep the dog in the kitchen .. or a managable acceptable area .
We are in the process of remodeling our kitchen so we are changing the rules again .. 
The dogs are handling all the chaos and change better than my husband and I .. 
They are smart they want to please . 
Be patient consistent and praise for good behaviour .
Pee pee pads were invaluable for us but everyone has to find their own way and routine . Everyone is different ..


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## ksabrosa

Hi Lina! This is my first post here as well since I just joined a couple of days ago, but I live in an apartment and have a 2 year old Havanese. Getting another one tomorrow which is why I've been addicted to the board, getting all of the advice I can. When I first got "Havana" I kept her confined to the kitchen area with a gate and a wee wee pad when we were out, and basically put them all over the house when we were home so that she was always close to one. As soon as I saw her sniffing, I would put her on the pad. Eventually she started to look for it and when she was around 8-10 mnths old, we were able to give her the run of the house when we weren't home. Now we replaced the pads with newspaper to just about eliminate the cost, and keep her area in the bathroom. I haven't had an accident in over a year.

I plan to do pretty much the same thing with the new girl, but this time she has a big vinyl looking excercise pen since our new kitchen has too many nooks and crannies for her to get into trouble. I will start her out on the pads again. BTW, the best and cheapest pads Ive found are from Target - they're Arm N Hammer and cost around $10 for 33 pads. I just moved to Fort Lee, NJ from NYC and have been looking for other Hav owners in the area. I'm happy to have found some here!


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## vfeldman

FYI--if anyone has Kroger near them, they have 101 pads for 19.99 It is a red and white box and has 101 Dalmantions on it. (maybe it is 102). That was the best deal I could find when we had litters!


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## juliav

:welcome: Ksabrosa and Havana. Did we mention yet that we love, love, love pictures!!!:biggrin1:


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## ksabrosa

Thank you so much! So the little girl in my avatar is Havana 
She's has very interesting greenish eyes and a brown nose which really confused me at first, but now I think she has some chocolate in her (???). I am getting baby #2 "Lune" tomorrow at 9PM. I am super excited...I'll try and link her pic I hope this works


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## Doggie Nut

Welcome! Your babies are precious! You've got ebony & ivory....chocolate & vanilla.....salt & pepper.....:banplease: whoops....there I go again....


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## ksabrosa

Hee hee I hope my bigger one isn't too much for the puppy. She is very hyper and doesn't even tire after her daily "Havanese run" around the apartment. It's the funniest thing to watch. Anyway correction the baby's name is "Luna" not Lune. Let's hope girls take to each other quickly!


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## MaddiesMom

Welcome Ksabrosa, Havana and Luna! :welcome: I love your two babies. Was Havana a darker color as a puppy? She does look like she has some chocolate in her. I love her brown nose! And Luna has the most adorable puppy face! Lucky you!!! :biggrin1:


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## ksabrosa

You know she's always been stark white with the green eyes and brown nose so that's why I never thought she had any chocolate in her. The litter she came from all had black eyes and black noses as did her mom and dad. *shrug* She must've come from the milkman lol.


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## Lina

Hi ksabrosa! :wave: Welcome to the forum! I'm pretty new myself (as you can see) and still awaiting my own puppy...

I think your Havana is BEAUTIFUL. I love her brown nose! Luna looks really adorable too! What a great pair they will make together. :brushteeth:


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## Havtahava

Ksabrosa, welcome to the forum. Havana and Luna are going to be like night and day with the color differences! Enjoy your new puppy.

And yes, it is safe to say that Havana_ is _a chocolate. "Chocolate" refers to nose, eye and lip pigment, not coat color. With her obvious brown nose and eyerims, I'm assuming her lip color is also brown, no?


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## juliav

Kimberly,

When it comes to show dogs, are only the choclates and choclate partis allowed to have brown noses, eyes and lids and the other colors have to have black?


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## marjrc

Welcome aboard, Havana's and Luna's mommy! Great that you came out to play with the rest of us. 

Your girls are so pretty! I , too, am a fan of Havan's adorable nose.

It sounds like what you did with her worked, so hopefully, Luna will learn the same way. How exciting to get a new pup! I'm sure Havana will have a ball playing with her. :whoo:


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## Havtahava

> Kimberly,
> 
> When it comes to show dogs, are only the choclates and choclate partis allowed to have brown noses, eyes and lids and the other colors have to have black?


Julia, I'm not sure exactly what you are asking. Brown noses, eyes and lids is what makes a dog a chocolate, so yes, they would have brown and all others would have black. (However, they can also only have a spot of black. The only disqualification is to be completely absent of black. Whereas, in other some breeds, incomplete pigment - or a lack of being completely black - is a disqualification.) I hope I answered what you were asking.


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## juliav

Thanks for the answer Kimberly, that's exactly what I was asking, unfortunately, sometimes I have a problem wording my questions correctly.


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## ksabrosa

Thanks for the chocolate confirmation. I'm telling you I used to be so confused like where did this dog come from? lol. Im waiting for my new girl to arrive and Im super nervous. She's in Dallas waiting for her connecting flight :-( Does anybody know where they keep them while they're waiting for the connection? I cant wait to get her home safe, fed, and out of the heat!


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## good buddy

ksabrosa said:


> Thanks for the chocolate confirmation. I'm telling you I used to be so confused like where did this dog come from? lol. Im waiting for my new girl to arrive and Im super nervous. She's in Dallas waiting for her connecting flight :-( Does anybody know where they keep them while they're waiting for the connection? I cant wait to get her home safe, fed, and out of the heat!


You can call the breeder and ask them. If they booked the flight, they should have checked on what arrangements there were for the dog between planes. If you have the information on the Airline and the flight and such you could also call the airline and find out. With some airlines you can even follow along through a website and know as they arrive at each destination.


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