# Spring Letter to my Puppy Owners



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

*It is that time of year when we start to worry about ticks and heart worm. I thought you might be interested in the letter I just sent out to my puppy owners. The information in this was run by my veterinarian before I sent it out. Please keep in mind that this advice is based on our geographical area, which is in the Northeast. Recommendations for both ticks AND heart worm are geographically specific. But this should give you an idea of the thought process, and also the life cycle of heart worm. It has to be warm for a certain number of days for the microfillaria to develop, whether there are mosquitos flying around or not. This is why heart worm is a much bigger problem in the warm, southern states than t is in my region:*

Hi folks,

There USED to be a temperature chart for the US showing when to start heart worm meds in what areas. But I couldn’t find it. So I turned to a vet friend of mine, who also happens to be ****’s breeder. (father of all of your puppies!) I am sending this to all of you at the same time, because I am sure heart worm will be on ALL of your thoughts soon, if it isn’t already!

So the short of it is, this is too soon to start Heart worm Meds. I usually start the first of June. (She says I start too soon! LOL! Remember that the “meds” kill microfillaria that are already in the dogs' systems. They do NOT “prevent” anything. They act like a wormer) I treat with Interceptor every 6 weeks (on the dot! If you think you might forget, do it monthly instead!) until November. If you can’t get Interceptor, Heartgard would be my second choice. Not “plus”, not with anything extra. Just the plain old regular of either one of these.

https://www.opvmc.com/forms/heartworm.pdf

Here is what my vet friend wrote to me:

"Climate plays a key role in the transmission of heartworm disease. The larvae require an average daily temperature of at least 57 degrees Fahrenheit to mature within the mosquito. In addition, the length of time it takes for the larva to mature depends on the average daily temperature. Maturation can take as few as eight days at 86 degrees Fahrenheit or as many as twenty-nine days at 65 degrees Fahrenheit. This means the occasional mosquito seen during a February thaw is not going to transmit heartworm disease. In fact, heartworm season in most areas of the United States generally lasts six months or less (except for the Southeastern and Gulf States). In the Buffalo area, transmission generally occurs from June to October " 

*NOW* as far as ticks and tick born diseases are concerned, this is shaping up to be a TERRIBLE year for ticks. We didn’t have enough cold weather this year to really knock the ticks back. I just pulled a tick off Pixel yesterday. It was embedded but it was not yet engorged. So it hadn’t been on her for very long, fortunately. I know my friends with large dogs who walk in the woods a lot are finding ticks daily and have started using Seresto collars. The problem with these collars on Havanese is that they must stay on the dog all the time to be effective, and they will mat them. They also contain known human carcinogens. So I don’t use them. You need to do your own due diligence on them. In the case of tick preventatives and TBD’s, it is very much a case of “pick your poison. We don’t have a great choice. Neither one is good. I know you all keep your dogs in shorter coats than I do, and I won’t fault you if you choose to use them, considering how bad a tick year we are heading into. I just want you to know the facts on both sides. 

The reason that keeping dogs protected from tick born diseases has become even MORE critical, is that we have found that Bartonella, one of the tick born diseases prevalent in our area is implicated in most cases of Hemangiosarcoma in dogs. You do NOT want this. It is ALWAYS deadly.









Bartonella Bacteria Found in Hemangiosarcoma Tumors from Dogs - NC State Veterinary Medicine


Researchers find more evidence of a possible connection between persistent bacterial infection and blood vessel cancer in dogs.




cvm.ncsu.edu





Frontline seems not to be working AT ALL for ticks any more. So I am sticking with my old Advantix II, which still seems to work relatively well, since it is a repellent as well as killing the ticks. That STILL means you will need to go over your dog DAILY and look for and remove ticks if you find them. You should be doing the same for all humans in your home! Keep them out of tall grass and away from leaf piles, stone walls and the verge of woods. If you decide to take them on a walk in a suspect area, make sure you comb them out CAREFULLY when you get home. 

Know the signs of tick born diseases. Any sudden lameness that doesn’t have a known cause, ESPECIALLY if it seems to move from one leg to another is suspect. The same with fevers, even low grade ones(have a thermometer on hand and learn how to use it!), changes in disposition, or “just not feeling well”. These are all young dogs, but last spring, we were attributing a number of problems with Kodi to possibly being “age-related, and a course of tick-disease-approprate antibiotics had him feeling FINE in 48 hours!!! The GOOD news is that the TBD’s ARE very curable with antibiotics if the dog is treated promptly! (Unfortunately, it seems that Bartonella continues to "hide" in the body, even after treatment)

Please do NOT use “feed through” pill-type flea and tick preventatives.The problem with these is that once fed, if there is a problem, there is no way to get them back OUT of the dog. You need to live with the consequences until the toxins leave the dog's system 6 weeks or so later.

I think your dogs will be on the same schedule as Ducky for annual physicals, which will be in the fall. At that time, I would think your vets will want to do a tick titer. If not, make sure you ASK that it be done. You want to know if they have been exposed to tick born diseases, and if so, if they have a low titer (just exposure) or a high titer (active disease, even if they don’t have symptoms, and needing treatment).

Hope this helps! 

Karen


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I also live in a tick infested area. One thing I have discovered is that having a super cold winter has nothing to do with how bad ticks are the following spring. For example, last year was the coldest winter in history here. We had single digits and teens for many weeks. The spring after that was the worst I have ever seen in all my life as far as ticks go. I am wondering if the toughest ticks survived and reproduced like crazy!!! We are in a new location this year. It will be interesting to see how bad the ticks are. April and May are typically peak season. I have not seen a tick on them yet this year but it is not April yet.

As far as the heartworm map, I have never found a vet here that supports giving heartworm drugs for part of the year. However, this could be because our area is more risky. Every vet I have asked advises year round preventatives which does not really make sense to me because I have never in my 67 years seen a mosquito during the winter months. I hardly ever saw a mosquito period at our old house. It should be interesting to see if it is different at our new house.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

yeah... my vet gave me 'The Look' when she asked about heartworm meds. I did the 'I get it through the mail' routine. The same with tick meds. We get our yard sprayed with organic tick & mosquito stuff. That really cuts down on them. I'm a summer & fall meds person. It seems to work.

She also was pushing the Lyme vaccine. I haven't made up my mind on that. Previous beasties got it and were fine but.. Fez is too little and.... I don't know.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

morriscsps said:


> yeah... my vet gave me 'The Look' when she asked about heartworm meds. I did the 'I get it through the mail' routine. The same with tick meds. We get our yard sprayed with organic tick & mosquito stuff. That really cuts down on them. I'm a summer & fall meds person. It seems to work.
> 
> She also was pushing the Lyme vaccine. I haven't made up my mind on that. Previous beasties got it and were fine but.. Fez is too little and.... I don't know.


I have been rolling in the floor laughing for the past 15 minutes. I thought I was the only one who uses the “I get it through the mail” routine. Glad I am not alone.

Ticks I can deal with. Although I fear HW disease I cannot justify using it unless I see more than a dozen mosquitoes during an entire season. So for me it depends on how bad the mosquitoes are for a particular year. And in spite of how a vet frowns on me, if I do use it it is only June through December.

i just dealt with a foxtail. I will take a tick any day over that.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I also live in a tick infested area. One thing I have discovered is that having a super cold winter has nothing to do with how bad ticks are the following spring. For example, last year was the coldest winter in history here. We had single digits and teens for many weeks. The spring after that was the worst I have ever seen in all my life as far as ticks go. I am wondering if the toughest ticks survived and reproduced like crazy!!! We are in a new location this year. It will be interesting to see how bad the ticks are. April and May are typically peak season. I have not seen a tick on them yet this year but it is not April yet.
> 
> As far as the heartworm map, I have never found a vet here that supports giving heartworm drugs for part of the year. However, this could be because our area is more risky. Every vet I have asked advises year round preventatives which does not really make sense to me because I have never in my 67 years seen a mosquito during the winter months. I hardly ever saw a mosquito period at our old house. It should be interesting to see if it is different at our new house.


I don’t know the situation with heart worm where you live, of course, but it is pretty common for people to do it up here. It is not something that is SUGGESTED by a lot of vets, because it takes a lot more careful management on the part of the dog owner. You have to get your dog in for a heart worm titer before you start giving the meds, and then you have to be careful about start and stop dates. As I said in my letter, if you are going to do what I do, and dose on an every six week basis, you need to be even MORE careful, because there is NO leeway on dosing. I know many pet people who don’t want the responsibility of remembering all that… dosing once a month, year round is just easier to remember and keeps their dog safe from heart worm. (But DOES expose them to an unneeded toxin for more months than necessary) Everyone has to make their own decisions.

Both my old vet AND the one I use now were willing to work with me on partial year dosing. The vet I use now was the one who first told me that I could actually stretch the dosing out to every 6 weeks rather than monthly. But as I’ve mentioned, I am lucky to have an extremely enlightened practice.

I’m also not sure whether the cold winter situation is the same between where you are and where we are. We are in a much colder zone than you are. Even in a “normal” winter, our winters are much colder and snowier than yours are. So our tick life cycles may not be exacly the same as yours. We had ticks out in Jan. This year. That is SO not normal for us.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> yeah... my vet gave me 'The Look' when she asked about heartworm meds. I did the 'I get it through the mail' routine. The same with tick meds. We get our yard sprayed with organic tick & mosquito stuff. That really cuts down on them. I'm a summer & fall meds person. It seems to work.
> 
> She also was pushing the Lyme vaccine. I haven't made up my mind on that. Previous beasties got it and were fine but.. Fez is too little and.... I don't know.


I wouldn’t. It has a relatively high side effect profile. Once you give the vaccine, he will automatically have a titer. So if you THINK he’s been exposed, a tick titer won’t tell you. Worst, Lyme is only one of SEVERAL nasty tick borne diseases. The vaccine gives you no protection against ay of the others. I titer twice a year, spring and fall, and treat for first-time infections.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I don’t know the situation with heart worm where you live, of course, but it is pretty common for people to do it up here. It is not something that is SUGGESTED by a lot of vets, because it takes a lot more careful management on the part of the dog owner. You have to get your dog in for a heart worm titer before you start giving the meds, and then you have to be careful about start and stop dates. As I said in my letter, if you are going to do what I do, and dose on an every six week basis, you need to be even MORE careful, because there is NO leeway on dosing. I know many pet people who don’t want the responsibility of remembering all that… dosing once a month, year round is just easier to remember and keeps their dog safe from heart worm. (But DOES expose them to an unneeded toxin for more months than necessary) Everyone has to make their own decisions.
> 
> Both my old vet AND the one I use now were willing to work with me on partial year dosing. The vet I use now was the one who first told me that I could actually stretch the dosing out to every 6 weeks rather than monthly. But as I’ve mentioned, I am lucky to have an extremely enlightened practice.
> 
> I’m also not sure whether the cold winter situation is the same between where you are and where we are. We are in a much colder zone than you are. Even in a “normal” winter, our winters are much colder and snowier than yours are. So our tick life cycles may not be exacly the same as yours. We had ticks out in Jan. This year. That is SO not normal for us.


Although Missouri is supposedly a risky state for heartworm, the southern part of the state is where it is most risky IMO. The other parts are not quite as bad so maybe they sort of lump our whole state together. I do think the vet hesitancy could be related to not trusting us to dose correctly. They also say if you do this you must titer twice per year and some folks do not want to do that. The other thing here is that vets say the heartworms are becoming resistant to some of the standard drugs and maybe they think if you give it for a greater number of months post season that you have a greater chance to kill them. One vet told me if I was not going to give it every month all year I might as well not give it at all. Huh. I do not agree with this, however if giving it for part of the year and/or every 6 weeks it must be done correctly per an individual’s location.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I wouldn’t. It has a relatively high side effect profile. Once you give the vaccine, he will automatically have a titer. So if you THINK he’s been exposed, a tick titer won’t tell you. Worst, Lyme is only one of SEVERAL nasty tick borne diseases. The vaccine gives you no protection against ay of the others. I titer twice a year, spring and fall, and treat for first-time infections.


I definitely agree with what Karen said. In our area we have a few tick borne diseases but the main tick borne disease is Ehrlichiosis. On top of this, the side effects and risk of vaccinosis are simply not worth it. The organic lawn treatment sounds like a great idea. That may be all that is needed for some folks. Every area is unique.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I definitely agree with what Karen said. In our area we have a few tick borne diseases but the main tick borne disease is Ehrlichiosis. On top of this, the side effects and risk of vaccinosis are simply not worth it. The organic lawn treatment sounds like a great idea. That may be all that is needed for some folks. Every area is unique.


Besides lawn "treatments" Making sure that grass is kept mowed short and dead leaves are picked up and gardens cleaned out is really important. These are favorite places for ticks to wait for passing animals. They are also favorite mouse habitat, and mice are THE biggest vectors for ticks, ESPECIALLY deer ticks. Much more than deer, really.

You can also either buy or make "tick tubes", which are filled with soft bedding material treated with pyrethrins, and place these around the perimeter of your dog areas. (where the dogs can't get them) the mice come and take the soft bedding back to their nests, and get the pyrethrins all over themselves and their young, which kill the ticks. You can Google commercial sources for these as well as DIY instructions for making them.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Besides lawn "treatments" Making sure that grass is kept mowed short and dead leaves are picked up and gardens cleaned out is really important. These are favorite places for ticks to wait for passing animals. They are also favorite mouse habitat, and mice are THE biggest vectors for ticks, ESPECIALLY deer ticks. Much more than deer, really.
> 
> You can also either buy or make "tick tubes", which are filled with soft bedding material treated with pyrethrins, and place these around the perimeter of your dog areas. (where the dogs can't get them) the mice come and take the soft bedding back to their nests, and get the pyrethrins all over themselves and their young, which kill the ticks. You can Google commercial sources for these as well as DIY instructions for making them.


To add to what krandall said…For mosquitoes, it is helpful to make sure there are no areas of standing water. Even a small bit of standing water can turn into a mosquito breeding ground. It is also helpful to keep dogs in at dawn and dusk which are the prime mosquito feeding times.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Perry had his annual heartworm test - the vet tests for Tick diseases at the same time - and this time he came back positive for anaplasmosis - so I'll have to keep a closer eye on him as this is all the more complicated because he already has leg/ limp issues


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Brill said:


> Perry had his annual heartworm test - the vet tests for Tick diseases at the same time - and this time he came back positive for anaplasmosis - so I'll have to keep a closer eye on him as this is all the more complicated because he already has leg/ limp issues


I can see where already having an existing limp would be confusing. If it makes you feel better, mine have been positive for Ehrlichiosis for years and have never had an issue. Just curious if you use “preventatives“. I was wondering because almost every dog I know who is positive for a tick borne disease is on preventatives.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I can see where already having an existing limp would be confusing. If it makes you feel better, mine have been positive for Ehrlichiosis for years and have never had an issue. Just curious if you use “preventatives“. I was wondering because almost every dog I know who is positive for a tick borne disease is on preventatives.



Just being positive does NOT mean immunity, unfortunately. One of my dogs, (do't ask me which one now, I can't remember) had acute case of... something when they already had a low titer for it. The other problem is that having a titer for one thing doesn't even begin to protect you from all the other TBD's in your area. I think most snap tests test for the 4 ,most common disease in your area, but that is NOT the limit of TBD that can show up in any area. For instance Lone Star ticks have started to show up in this area, presumably because of all the rescue dogs that are brought up here. and the disease they carry is being seen occasionally. But the disease they carry does NOT show up on the snap test. Fortunately it AN be treated with Doxy, just like the others, so most vets treat the symptoms even before getting a more comprehensive tick panel back from a big lab in the case of a sick dog. In Kodi's case, He EITEHR had one of those "we don't test for it" things, or had a recurrence of the one he aready titers for when he got so creaky last spring, because on his more recent tick panel, (snap) he was back to the base line he's had for many years now. (titer for erlichia, nothing else)


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Just being positive does NOT mean immunity, unfortunately. One of my dogs, (do't ask me which one now, I can't remember) had acute case of... something when they already had a low titer for it. The other problem is that having a titer for one thing doesn't even begin to protect you from all the other TBD's in your area. I think most snap tests test for the 4 ,most common disease in your area, but that is NOT the limit of TBD that can show up in any area. For instance Lone Star ticks have started to show up in this area, presumably because of all the rescue dogs that are brought up here. and the disease they carry is being seen occasionally. But the disease they carry does NOT show up on the snap test. Fortunately it AN be treated with Doxy, just like the others, so most vets treat the symptoms even before getting a more comprehensive tick panel back from a big lab in the case of a sick dog. In Kodi's case, He EITEHR had one of those "we don't test for it" things, or had a recurrence of the one he aready titers for when he got so creaky last spring, because on his more recent tick panel, (snap) he was back to the base line he's had for many years now. (titer for erlichia, nothing else)


The primary tick at our old house was the Lone Star Tick. This tick accounted for 90 percent of my dogs’ tick bites. It has a white dot so very recognizable. That is why I know. One of the diseases the Lone Star tick transmits is Ehrlichiosis which is one of the diseases that the 4D snap test checks for. Ehrlichiosis is the most common TBD here although there are others.

I was not meaning to imply that a positive titer means proof of immunity for a TBD. However, it does not mean they are sick either. All it means especially for Ehrlichiosis is that they have been bitten by a tick carrying the disease. My previous vet looked for other markers. Both my dogs are positive for Ehrlichiosis but have never had any symptoms from the disease and never had any of the other markers. Although my dogs were not on preventatives, I know many other dogs who have tested positive for TBDs that are on preventatives.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> I can see where already having an existing limp would be confusing. If it makes you feel better, mine have been positive for Ehrlichiosis for years and have never had an issue. Just curious if you use “preventatives“. I was wondering because almost every dog I know who is positive for a tick borne disease is on preventatives.


We do use Advantix II, but I will also admit to not being super good at remembering to do it on time . 

We have several dogs in the family that have had lymes, and it's always been very easy to tell when they flare up - the limp and lethargy is pretty obvious. I just wonder if it will be as easy for me to tell since Perry already has a limp. 

It also reminds me that I need to get the vet to write down what the prescription will be if/ when he might need it because I don't know that vets where we may travel will be able to test for it OR know what to prescribe if it's needed - so I need to have the prescription with me so I can get meds if I suspect it's happening.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Brill said:


> We do use Advantix II, but I will also admit to not being super good at remembering to do it on time .
> 
> We have several dogs in the family that have had lymes, and it's always been very easy to tell when they flare up - the limp and lethargy is pretty obvious. I just wonder if it will be as easy for me to tell since Perry already has a limp.
> 
> It also reminds me that I need to get the vet to write down what the prescription will be if/ when he might need it because I don't know that vets where we may travel will be able to test for it OR know what to prescribe if it's needed - so I need to have the prescription with me so I can get meds if I suspect it's happening.


I don’t think the preventatives are perfect and the ticks are getting stronger. Some of the diseases like Ehrlichiosis transmit very fast in as little as 4-6 hours. In addition, finding ticks on dogs is very difficult, especially black dogs!!! I try my best to check my dogs over but many ticks have puffed up on them despite my efforts. All we can do is try our best.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> The primary tick at our old house was the Lone Star Tick. This tick accounted for 90 percent of my dogs’ tick bites. It has a white dot so very recognizable. That is why I know. One of the diseases the Lone Star tick transmits is Ehrlichiosis which is one of the diseases that the 4D snap test checks for. Ehrlichiosis is the most common TBD here although there are others.
> 
> I was not meaning to imply that a positive titer means proof of immunity for a TBD. However, it does not mean they are sick either. All it means especially for Ehrlichiosis is that they have been bitten by a tick carrying the disease. My previous vet looked for other markers. Both my dogs are positive for Ehrlichiosis but have never had any symptoms from the disease and never had any of the other markers. Although my dogs were not on preventatives, I know many other dogs who have tested positive for TBDs that are on preventatives.


The snap test is different in different parts of the country, depending on what the major tick diseases are. They aren’t the same everywhere. (For instance, we have virtually no Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever here, while this is a big one in other parts of the country) Here, the protocol is, assuming the dog is healthy we do the snap test at least once a year. (I do it twice) If the dog is positive for any of the 4 diseases that it tests for, they look at the dog’s record. If it is one the dog has been positive for before, and the dog has no symptoms, they do nothing. If the dog is positive FOR THE FIRST TIME for that disease, even without symptoms, the sample is sent out for a specific antibody count. With this information the vet will decide whether they should be treated or not. Kodi, when first positive for Erlichiosis, had a very low titer. So it was decided that even though he was exposed, he had been able to fight the infection off by himself. Conversely, a few years later, on a routine snap test, Pixel was positive for Lyme. She had no symptoms, but her antibody level was very high. So she was put on Doxy for for a month.

Here in MA, when Kodi was two, I was told that even WITH preventatives, 60% of dogs have seroconverted to positive for Lyme by their 4th birthday. And that doesn’t even TOUCH the other TBD’s. Honestly, my biggest fear now is is Bartonella. We can cure the other ones. Knowing that THIS is the cause of Hemangio? As much as I hate tick meds… I think they are less of a danger than Hemangio, at least for my three younger dogs.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> The snap test is different in different parts of the country, depending on what the major tick diseases are. They aren’t the same everywhere. (For instance, we have virtually no Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever here, while this is a big one in other parts of the country) Here, the protocol is, assuming the dog is healthy we do the snap test at least once a year. (I do it twice) If the dog is positive for any of the 4 diseases that it tests for, they look at the dog’s record. If it is one the dog has been positive for before, and the dog has no symptoms, they do nothing. If the dog is positive FOR THE FIRST TIME for that disease, even without symptoms, the sample is sent out for a specific antibody count. With this information the vet will decide whether they should be treated or not. Kodi, when first positive for Erlichiosis, had a very low titer. So it was decided that even though he was exposed, he had been able to fight the infection off by himself. Conversely, a few years later, on a routine snap test, Pixel was positive for Lyme. She had no symptoms, but her antibody level was very high. So she was put on Doxy for for a month.
> 
> Here in MA, when Kodi was two, I was told that even WITH preventatives, 60% of dogs have seroconverted to positive for Lyme by their 4th birthday. And that doesn’t even TOUCH the other TBD’s. Honestly, my biggest fear now is is Bartonella. We can cure the other ones. Knowing that THIS is the cause of Hemangio? As much as I hate tick meds… I think they are less of a danger than Hemangio, at least for my three younger dogs.


I did not realize there are different types of 4D snap tests. When Mia first tested positive for Ehrlichiosis, they ran a separate test that tests for presence of the organism. I think they called it a PCR test? Anyway, it was negative. However, I read up on the PCR test and it sounds like it is very unreliable anyway. For Ehrlichiosis, they never sent out to see the actual titer count, however the vet said the other markers on their blood tests were good so not sure if that had anything to do with it. Bartonella does sound concerning.

Jury is still out on how bad the ticks will be here at the new house. There is no vegetation within 100 yards of the house which I think will help. And I can easily avoid the edge of woods. Complete opposite of the old house.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I did not realize there are different types of 4D snap tests. When Mia first tested positive for Ehrlichiosis, they ran a separate test that tests for presence of the organism. I think they called it a PCR test? Anyway, it was negative. However, I read up on the PCR test and it sounds like it is very unreliable anyway. For Ehrlichiosis, they never sent out to see the actual titer count, however the vet said the other markers on their blood tests were good so not sure if that had anything to do with it. Bartonella does sound concerning.
> 
> Jury is still out on how bad the ticks will be here at the new house. There is no vegetation within 100 yards of the house which I think will help. And I can easily avoid the edge of woods. Complete opposite of the old house.


That sounds great! Our YARD is pretty safe too. But not much beyond that…


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## Johanna (11 mo ago)

krandall said:


> *It is that time of year when we start to worry about ticks and heart worm. I thought you might be interested in the letter I just sent out to my puppy owners. The information in this was run by my veterinarian before I sent it out. Please keep in mind that this advice is based on our geographical area, which is in the Northeast. Recommendations for both ticks AND heart worm are geographically specific. But this should give you an idea of the thought process, and also the life cycle of heart worm. It has to be warm for a certain number of days for the microfillaria to develop, whether there are mosquitos flying around or not. This is why heart worm is a much bigger problem in the warm, southern states than t is in my region:*
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> ...


On the subject of ticks, I'm wondering what is safe to use on our new puppy. We have no problems with fleas/ticks at our home but we own a beach cottage in Florida that we visit several times a year. Ticks are a big problem there. There are many gopher tortoises that live in the sand dunes and other areas on our property and we always see ticks attached to them. I always treat our dogs before we visit but I've never taken a small puppy before. Our new baby is 12 weeks old and we will be traveling to the beach cottage next week. I don't know if I should put a preventative topical on him or if I should just give him a good check over daily. I know that Advantix 2 says it's safe for puppies over 4 pounds but I would love some advice from experienced Havanese owners.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Johanna said:


> On the subject of ticks, I'm wondering what is safe to use on our new puppy. We have no problems with fleas/ticks at our home but we own a beach cottage in Florida that we visit several times a year. Ticks are a big problem there. There are many gopher tortoises that live in the sand dunes and other areas on our property and we always see ticks attached to them. I always treat our dogs before we visit but I've never taken a small puppy before. Our new baby is 12 weeks old and we will be traveling to the beach cottage next week. I don't know if I should put a preventative topical on him or if I should just give him a good check over daily. I know that Advantix 2 says it's safe for puppies over 4 pounds but I would love some advice from experienced Havanese owners.



I guess it depends on how young your puppy is, and how much you think you will have him on the ground his first summer. I decided, with the help of my vet, that the safer option for Ducky, (born in April) was to keep in out of "tick territory" through his first tick season. He was ONLY on grass in our pretty tick safe back yard, so I did not use tick products on him. I DID use heart worm meds on him (interceptor ONLY, on a 6 week interval) starting July 1) because she felt that was very important, especially since we would be camping and it would be very hard to avoid mosquitos at dusk.

This is a situation where I would WISH that every puppy owner had a vet like mine, where you could discuss the nuances of your situation, the pros and cons, and have them help you come to a well-reasoned decision on the best choice for your specific puppy in your specific situation. There really is no one-size-fits all answer to these questions. IMO, you want to use the least chemicals that will keep your puppy/dog safe from some potentially dangerous diseases. THEN you want to know how to identify the signs of those diseases, and what to do if you suspect them!


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## Johanna (11 mo ago)

krandall said:


> I guess it depends on how young your puppy is, and how much you think you will have him on the ground his first summer. I decided, with the help of my vet, that the safer option for Ducky, (born in April) was to keep in out of "tick territory" through his first tick season. He was ONLY on grass in our pretty tick safe back yard, so I did not use tick products on him. I DID use heart worm meds on him (interceptor ONLY, on a 6 week interval) starting July 1) because she felt that was very important, especially since we would be camping and it would be very hard to avoid mosquitos at dusk.
> 
> This is a situation where I would WISH that every puppy owner had a vet like mine, where you could discuss the nuances of your situation, the pros and cons, and have them help you come to a well-reasoned decision on the best choice for your specific puppy in your specific situation. There really is no one-size-fits all answer to these questions. IMO, you want to use the least chemicals that will keep your puppy/dog safe from some potentially dangerous diseases. THEN you want to know how to identify the signs of those diseases, and what to do if you suspect them!


Thanks Karen! We do have a maintained grass yard there. I think I'll just take him out in the grassy area for potty time and then carry him down to the beach when we go. I'm sure the ticks are mostly in the scrub areas. I'll give him a thorough check daily when I comb him just in case. I don't like to use chemicals (especially on such a little guy) if I don't have to.


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## LWalks (Feb 7, 2021)

Johanna said:


> Thanks Karen! We do have a maintained grass yard there. I think I'll just take him out in the grassy area for potty time and then carry him down to the beach when we go. I'm sure the ticks are mostly in the scrub areas. I'll give him a thorough check daily when I comb him just in case. I don't like to use chemicals (especially on such a little guy) if I don't have to.


We waited as long as we could with any flea/tick preventatives for Jo bc she was SO tiny as a pup, and my vet was on board with that. I kept such a close eye on her anyway, so it was easier to keep her out of long grass, etc I kept fingers crossed bc fleas are a problem year round here, but we were ok until a few weeks ago. So she got her first treatment at 9 months. I need to see pictures of this new puppy! Searching other threads now 😊


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## Johanna (11 mo ago)

LWalks said:


> We waited as long as we could with any flea/tick preventatives for Jo bc she was SO tiny as a pup, and my vet was on board with that. I kept such a close eye on her anyway, so it was easier to keep her out of long grass, etc I kept fingers crossed bc fleas are a problem year round here, but we were ok until a few weeks ago. So she got her first treatment at 9 months. I need to see pictures of this new puppy! Searching other threads now 😊


Haven't posted any pics yet. I'll try to get something on here. It's been a busy few days!


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

I am concerned about the same thing as @Johanna above. The young lad is going to be just a smidge over 12 weeks when he gets his shots and the vet suggested Nexgard.
I went through prior threads going back to 2009 - and honestly, I'm lost. Simparica Trio, Nexgard - they all seem to have potential side effects, and I don't know what to do since mosquitos and Florida go hand in hand.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Montgomery26 said:


> I am concerned about the same thing as @Johanna above. The young lad is going to be just a smidge over 12 weeks when he gets his shots and the vet suggested Nexgard.
> I went through prior threads going back to 2009 - and honestly, I'm lost. Simparica Trio, Nexgard - they all seem to have potential side effects, and I don't know what to do since mosquitos and Florida go hand in hand.


I absolutely WILL NOT use combined drugs or chewable flea or tick “poisons” (because that’s what they are) on my dogs. The only heartworm med I use is Interceptor, which is an older, well known, med, and well-tolerated by Havanese. If/when I need a flea/tick product, I use a topical, as sparingly as I can get away with it. The one I use is Advantix II. The topicals stay in the epidermis, and OUT of the internal organs. Also, you can make sure they are dosed separately from the heart worm meds, so you are not assaulting the system with both at the same time.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I just wanted to add. Please, please, please do not let them give your dog the Proheart vaccine! I know someone whose vet tried to talk them into this saying that the heartworms are becoming resistant to some of the other drugs.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

krandall said:


> I absolutely WILL NOT use combined drugs or chewable flea or tick “poisons” (because that’s what they are) on my dogs. The only heartworm med I use is Interceptor, which is an older, well known, med, and well-tolerated by Havanese. If/when I need a flea/tick product, I use a topical, as sparingly as I can get away with it. The one I use is Advantix II. The topicals stay in the epidermis, and OUT of the internal organs. Also, you can make sure they are dosed separately from the heart worm meds, so you are not assaulting the system with both at the same time.


Thank you so so much - I've read and re-read your response and other threads multiple times over and I've finally decided on this for his 4 month shots:


Just the Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV (from Dr. Dodd's protocol)
No rabies shot (will wait till after 4 months and then spread it out so it's given by itself with a minimum 2 week gap)
No Nexgard
Interceptor (not the plus version) (if I can find it)
Advantix II topical


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