# Blue Sable?



## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

When I get bored at work, I look at puppies. I ran across this page of available puppies and saw that there is a blue sable male available. Looked on the McKay website, but didn't see any examples of adults in this color. Have any of you ever seen one? It just sounds so interesting...I'd love to see what they actually look like. Here's the website with the puppies so you can see what he looks like now...http://www.woodlandhavanese.com/woodlandhavanese.com/AVAILABLE_PUPPIES.html


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

Havanese do come in Blue....although I have never seen one in person, I would assume they would look like a dark sable except with a blue tint? This is interesting, the genetics behind Hav color is wild! haha, I too would be interested if someone knew what they looked like as an adult!


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## Mom2Izzo (Jul 1, 2009)

Ohhh, what cute puppies  I am interested in hearing about blue sable as well.
NO KIM NO!!!! LOL


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

Hummm-
Yes, Havanese do come in blue, I have seen them in person.
Although I am not sure this person knows what they are talking about- Blue Sable? Never heard of it..... Silver sable maybe...


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Never seen a blue sable Hav. When I was a kid, my dobie had a litter with a red and a blue pup. I was in LOVE with the blue one, he was so cute and glossy


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I always thought the blue sable were the dark silvery that some sables turn. But when I was thinking I wanted a blue Hav, many here told me they are usually black as puppies that mature with a sort of a charcoal haze over them...or lighten to a real silvery charcoal. (Is Cash Blue then?) But I thought I also read that the real blues also have a charcoal nose and lighter eyes. But don't hold me to any of this since I am surely no expert... Could the dad be a blue?


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## Rita Nelson (Jul 13, 2009)

Cornerstone Kennels.com has a page about Havanese coloring and its tells about blue and silver coloring along with all the other colorings.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I am on vacation right now, but will check into it when I get back. Diane (Woodland Havanese) is Brady's breeder. The father of that litter is Brady's father. I haven't seen Sweeper in a while, but he is a black and tan. He has a tint of blue (maybe). I will send Diane an email when I get back and ask her about him.  I have been eyeing those puppies.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Brady's mom said:


> I am on vacation right now, but will check into it when I get back. Diane (Woodland Havanese) is Brady's breeder. The father of that litter is Brady's father. I haven't seen Sweeper in a while, but he is a black and tan. He has a tint of blue (maybe). I will send Diane an email when I get back and ask her about him. I have been eyeing those puppies.


Karen, aren't they adorable?! Please let me know what she says. There's a picture of Sweeper on the page, and he does look bluish. Little Louis is the one I was looking at, but Princess Tiana is a cutie too 

Nicole, you got that right...NO KIM NO!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

In this case, it looks like blue is referring to the pigment. That nose isn't blackin the left photo; it's blue. (Although the right photo for Louis does look black, but it's so hard to tell in photos.) Yes, I suppose that could be a blue (pigment) sable (coat markings). I'd be curious to see what it looks like as an adult.

Does the ABC's of Havanese (Suzanne McKay's) web site even mention blue pigment?


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## TheVintageVamp (Oct 14, 2009)

Oh my....I think I'm in love with Naveen....although Odie has the sweetest little expression on her face.


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## karin117 (Mar 29, 2008)

*This is written by Mrs Mc Kay, on the ABC Havanese site*
http://www.mts.net/~mckay55/rainbow.html

"DILUTE BLACK (BLUE) - There have some Havanese puppies born a silvery blue colour. These dogs also have lighter eyes and blue/gray pigment. The term "blue" is generally used by geneticists to identify dilution of black."

"These are all considered Dilute colours and develop similar to the colour found in the Weimaraner. Both black and chocolate can be diluted. These dilutions are relatively uncommon in the Havanese at this time and remain ambiguous and controversial. See the colour inheritance pages for information on how these dilutions occur. In other breeds, these dilute colours are called Cafe-au-Lait, Lilac, Mouse, Pearl, Grey and Isabella."


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

trueblue said:


> Karen, aren't they adorable?! Please let me know what she says. There's a picture of Sweeper on the page, and he does look bluish. Little Louis is the one I was looking at, but Princess Tiana is a cutie too
> 
> Nicole, you got that right...NO KIM NO!


Uh oh. I recognize those symptoms. Get the antidote quick or you'll be up nights right along with me.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

I remember at the Nationals in Richmond there was a woman that had some "blue" puppies. The experienced breeders seemed to be able to easily tell the difference with the color, but for me they looked very much like a light black. Like Cooper compared to the very black Barki. It would have been very helpful for me to have a black puppy at that time to compare with the blue puppy. 
It seems like at that time they said that blue was a disqualification for AKC, but Lord knows my memory leaves a lot to be desired!

Beverly


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## Mom2Izzo (Jul 1, 2009)

Kim, I sent you a PM. Read when you can! Thanks!


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

karin117 said:


> "These are all considered Dilute colours and develop similar to the colour found in the Weimaraner. Both black and chocolate can be diluted. These dilutions are relatively uncommon in the Havanese at this time and remain ambiguous and controversial. See the colour inheritance pages for information on how these dilutions occur. In other breeds, these dilute colours are called Cafe-au-Lait, Lilac, Mouse, Pearl, Grey and Isabella."


OMG Amazing. I love the color of Weimaraners.


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

BeverlyA said:


> I remember at the Nationals in Richmond there was a woman that had some "blue" puppies. The experienced breeders seemed to be able to easily tell the difference with the color, but for me they looked very much like a light black. Like Cooper compared to the very black Barki. It would have been very helpful for me to have a black puppy at that time to compare with the blue puppy.
> It seems like at that time they said that blue was a disqualification for AKC, but Lord knows my memory leaves a lot to be desired!
> 
> Beverly


Yep  there were blue puppies there!

They are currently a DQ in AKC, but they are showing up more and more in litters and some breeders that year were trying to get Blue added to the standard so they could be shown. I have no idea where it went after that though, I didn't hear anything more about it :/


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## karin117 (Mar 29, 2008)

I have never seen a blue havanese IRL.

The AKC breed standard say this on color of pigmentation

_"The pigment on the nose and lips is complete, solid black for all colors except for the chocolate dog which has complete solid, dark chocolate brown pigment. No other dilution of pigment is acceptable"_

The FCI standard quite the same. Not allowed in the showring.

They are still sweet


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

Oh crud, I am in love with all of them!
IWAP!!!!!!!!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Yes, there are a few breeders that have experience with blue and are getting more and more in their litters. I prefer black pigment, but hey, being one of the least excited about chocolate, I ended up getting one of the most unusual dark chocolate brown brindles. Figures.

Blue and chocolate are both dilutes.

Of non-show dogs in the pit bull family, people seem to highly desire the "blue nose pit".


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Havtahava said:


> Yes, there are a few breeders that have experience with blue and are getting more and more in their litters. I prefer black pigment, but hey, being one of the least excited about chocolate, I ended up getting one of the most unusual dark chocolate brown brindles. Figures.
> 
> Blue and chocolate are both dilutes.


You've got to love chocolates after having Mousse! He's beautiful.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Nope. I love Mousse, but I still don't love chocolates. LOL


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

http://losperritos.com/Puppies.html

Los Perritos has some adorable blue puppies, including blue and tans. I wonder if they'll retain the color. They sure are cute.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

thanks for that Beth!!! IWAP that blue and tan girl!!!! (thank heavens she is sold)


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

I know, she is gorgeous. I always look at that website. The scary thing is that it's a 45 minute drive from me.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

[http://www.foreverpoodle.com/Havanesepups.html
Here's another site I always check, just to get your puppy fix (which is also very close, too close).
Sorry-I don't mean to hijack the thread!!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

oh those are some good puppies too. I especially like the white one...he has a little petulant expression like my Jasper gets sometimes.


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

OK, maybe I'm just really slow......

But is Tango blue? I always thought she was black. Until Bandit came along. She's definitely not gray, because she's starting to show her age and is TURNING gray around her muzzle, and that's a VERY different color than the rest of her body. But look at these two pictures of Tango and Bandit. These were taken in the same spot in our kitchen, under the same light. Although Tango is a little farther left than Bandit, but I would think that would make her look darker and not lighter?

Then the other picture of Tango (on the sofa) was a few months ago, when her coat was much longer. But look at the coloring on her back legs, look how silver it looks. Depending on how the light shines on her, her entire coat can look this way.

So is that blue?

If you can't tell by these pictures, I'll try to get one of them together tonight. What do you think?


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

OMG...that little blue and tan boy is ADORABLE!! *sigh* Puppies can always make me happy, even when I can't have them. 

I'm not sure if Tango is "blue" or if he's just silvering. I think the pigment coloring is different in a blue dog, at least that's what I get from reading the McKay site.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

And Beth, hi-jack away...as long as you keep posting links to puppies


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm far from an expert on this subject but I'm thinking that unless the eyes are blueish they are charcoal, not true blue. And then it's interesting to think about all the shades of black. When I look closely, all three of my havs have black noses, but they are 3 different shades of black. Could one of them be blue or just a bit of a diluted black? Charcoal? I think the jury is still out on all the blue stuff. 
At the show in Palm Springs this weekend there were some really interesting colors. A couple of them were colors that even the breeders didn't know what to call them. And they are Champions! One of the males looked taupe, no, blue, no, charcoal, no, brown! Honestly it just depended on what angle you were looking at him from.
Very interesting!
Carole


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Pixiesmom said:


> [http://www.foreverpoodle.com/Havanesepups.html
> Here's another site I always check, just to get your puppy fix (which is also very close, too close).
> Sorry-I don't mean to hijack the thread!!!


OMG! The white chocolate boy is to dieeeeeeeee for! I love his little brown nose.

Holy crap I want a second puppy. Roscoe would be so happy to have a playmate...his daddy would KILL me though


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## TheVintageVamp (Oct 14, 2009)

OMG....that little sable Irish pied female is to die for!!!!!!!!! and the white chocolate male is pretty dang cute as well....


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## imamurph (Apr 15, 2008)

Pixiesmom said:


> http://losperritos.com/Puppies.html
> 
> Los Perritos has some adorable blue puppies, including blue and tans. I wonder if they'll retain the color. They sure are cute.


Oh Why, Oh WHY, did I have to LOOK :doh:

....self inflicted MHS torture! :frusty:


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Bummer...Louis is spoken for. And look how cute he is now!

http://www.woodlandhavanese.com/woodlandhavanese.com/AVAILABLE_PUPPIES.html


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

Wow - what a cutie!!!

I guess I'm just color blind or something. Or maybe the color differences are just so subtle that I don't know what I'm looking for, but I really can't tell the difference between "blue" and "charcoal" or "silver" or "fill in the blank."

Thanks for your help with Tango. Her pigment is lighter than Bandit, but I really can't figure it out. Not that it matters.....I love her the same no matter what her "official" color is!

Funny though - I used to have a blue heeler - an honest to goodness working dog, from (champion) working lines, and I couldn't even see her blue pigment. Just looked like a little different shade of black to me.

Good thing I have no plans to ever breed, I guess! I'd be selling puppies as one thing, and they'd be something completely different in reality! :lie:


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