# Is Kojo having seizures?



## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Kojo has had two episodes now which scares me. He suddenly starts trembling and he can't walk. Eyes glazed. I pick him up and hold and stroke him. He vomits. Then eventually calms down. I put him down and walks around like nothing happened but sleepy the rest of the day. He does not lose his balance or fall over. His front legs look woobly like he cannot control his legs. 

The first time this happened, he had just jumped off sofa. I thought he broke his leg and rushed him to Vet ER. They were so backed up, I waited an hour and Kojo didn't want to be held anymore. I put him down and he ran around like nothing was wrong. I took him home and saved big vet bill. Thought it was a "stinger" from jump. That was about a month ago. 

Today he did the same thing but hadn't jumped off anything. He seemed uncoordinated. I just picked him up and sat in recliner, stroking him until he quit trembling. He vomited. Then I put him on the floor and he walked around like nothing happened.

Anyone see anything like this?


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I would try to get a video of the episode so the vet can see it. Definitely call your vet and make an appointment to have him evaluated.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

I think I figured out what's going on. Kojo didn't eat breakfast this AM and barely sniffed at supper. I think he had low blood sugar. Apparently he doesn't like the food I feed I him anymore. Been skipping breakfast. So after this episode, I opened a can of tuna and he gobbled it down. He has been disinterested in his food for a few days. 

I ordered Stella & Chewy freeze-dried raw food. Will arrive in couple days. In mean time, I will cook him fresh cooked chicken & brown rice for couple days. Or more tuna.

He was on a hunger strike I guess. Any of you home-cook your Hava's food? Been searching for balanced recipes.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

If he’s disinterested in food and having these symptoms I would definitely have him seen. It could be a loss of appetite from whatever is going on, rather than symptoms from loss of appetite. I’ve never heard of those kinds of symptoms in a dog who hasn’t eaten. I understand not waiting at the emergency vet when his symptoms have passed but I would definitely follow up soon with the vet who knows him and try to get video of it, as Molly suggested. It’s hard when the incidents are far apart, but you could set up some kind of makeshift video in your living room. There are apps and home security/pet monitoring programs you could use with a laptop or an old phone for a temporary, low budget setup. It could help to document as much as you can about the day, including anything that might seem unrelated to him directly but might affect him, like the schedule or changes in his environment.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

A lot if people home cook but you have to be really careful about it. There are nutritionist and lots of groups that specialize in helping people set up systems to make sure they get the right nutrients. I would hesitate to start anything major like that until after he’s evaluated and the issue is resolved. There are also services that cost less than freeze dried raw that deliver fresh food properly balanced for dogs. If he likes the freeze dried you might look into frozen Stella and Chewy. It’s a lot less expensive. I feed freeze dried mixed with kibble, and Sundance occasionally picks out the freeze dried even though he does enjoy both. He just really loves the freeze dried, so even if he isn’t hungry he won’t pass it up!


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

I agree that vet needs to evaluate Kojo. Low Blood sugar is just a symptom of some underlying issue. Kojo's lack of appetite is also unusual. As I remember, the first "attack" was a day he refused to eat for 2 days. I just put out the same food (fresh) hoping he would eat. I have noticed some behavioral changes.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

This may not be the problem, however I believe Kojo is on Simparica? That can definitely cause seizures, along with all the other oral flea medications.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

And Kojo wet his bed in crate the night before. He always wakes me up by rattling crate door when he needs to go outside. That night he didn't wake me up to go outside. He hasn't wet his bed fot at least 18 months. It is possible he had seizure and had loss of bladder control.


mudpuppymama said:


> This may not be the problem, however I believe Kojo is on Simparica? That can definitely cause seizures, along with all the other oral flea medications.


Definitely not on Simparica. He got perforated stomach ulcer with bloody diarrhea. Necrotic gastroenteritis. He was really sick on IV antibiotics in pet hospital. Very expensive pill. Vet instructions did not say to give with food. I do my own research now before I accept Rx for Kojo meds from vet.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Simparica should be taken off the market and vets should not prescribe.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LUVmyHava said:


> Simparica should be taken off the market and vets should not prescribe.


Or people should get smarter and not use it!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I think seizures could happen with some of the other flea preventatives too but less likely than with the pills. Mia had some seizures following a vaccine so that is one of the main reasons I do not use any flea preventatives.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Sometimes you're lucky to live in place where fleas/ticks everywhere year round. Here flea/tick and heartworm prevention is a must. Kojo doing well on K9 Advantix II topical. He gets 6-month Proheart injection. I would not approve 12-month Proheart. It is triple the strength of 6-month shot. Heartworm is endemic here. My friend's lab got heartworm even though was getting monthly chew prevention. The treatment is arsenic-based and horrible. Better to prevent than treat.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LUVmyHava said:


> Sometimes you're lucky to live in place where fleas/ticks everywhere year round. Here flea/tick and heartworm prevention is a must. Kojo doing well on K9 Advantix II topical. He gets 6-month Proheart injection. I would not approve 12-month Proheart. It is triple the strength of 6-month shot. Heartworm is endemic here. My friend's lab got heartworm even though was getting monthly chew prevention. The treatment is arsenic-based and horrible. Better to prevent than treat.


You are right that heart worm is a terrible disease and there is no "one size fits all" solution. You need to look at where you live, read a LOT, and then work with your vet to figure out the best solution to protect your "dogs" based on their needs in your particular geographical area! This really is true in terms of the tick borne diseases too. There is no one perfect answer for every dog in every area!


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Struck out on Stella & Chewy frozen. Not one retailer in my state. So freeze dried only choice. Has anyone tried PRIMAL brand. That is available at Hollywood Feed.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I would also ask the vet about dosing when the preventative medications are a necessity due to the needs of the dog, family, and climate. Something I read about heart worm prevention and treatment in dogs with the MDR1 mutation is that in many cases the dosing can be modified and reduce side effects and be much safer for those dogs. Sundance has not been tested for the gene but had a lot of trouble on heartworm medication and one of the options the vet gave was reducing the dose. Since then I have questioned the dosing of medications for dogs in general because they are not always designed to give the lowest dose possible to the individual dog, they are designed to treat the widest group of dogs possible. Many Havanese are on the edge of size brackets so it’s worth asking. 

The owner of the small pet food store in my area stocks most of the Primal varieties and likes it, but I think she is big on frozen and hasn’t mentioned really preferring one brand over another. I’m pretty sure it’s what she feeds, or did feed at one point.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I would also ask the vet about dosing when the preventative medications are a necessity due to the needs of the dog, family, and climate. Something I read about heart worm prevention and treatment in dogs with the MDR1 mutation is that in many cases the dosing can be modified and reduce side effects and be much safer for those dogs. Sundance has not been tested for the gene but had a lot of trouble on heartworm medication and one of the options the vet gave was reducing the dose. Since then I have questioned the dosing of medications for dogs in general because they are not always designed to give the lowest dose possible to the individual dog, they are designed to treat the widest group of dogs possible. Many Havanese are on the edge of size brackets so it’s worth asking.
> 
> The owner of the small pet food store in my area stocks most of the Primal varieties and likes it, but I think she is big on frozen and hasn’t mentioned really preferring one brand over another. I’m pretty sure it’s what she feeds, or did feed at one point.


Which med can you reduce the dose? I talked to my vet (Perry's on Heartgard) - but she said that the medicine isn't evenly distributed through it so you can't split it in half (for example) to reduce it... would be curious if there's one that is more divisible.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I would also ask the vet about dosing when the preventative medications are a necessity due to the needs of the dog, family, and climate. Something I read about heart worm prevention and treatment in dogs with the MDR1 mutation is that in many cases the dosing can be modified and reduce side effects and be much safer for those dogs. Sundance has not been tested for the gene but had a lot of trouble on heartworm medication and one of the options the vet gave was reducing the dose. Since then I have questioned the dosing of medications for dogs in general because they are not always designed to give the lowest dose possible to the individual dog, they are designed to treat the widest group of dogs possible. Many Havanese are on the edge of size brackets so it’s worth asking.
> 
> The owner of the small pet food store in my area stocks most of the Primal varieties and likes it, but I think she is big on frozen and hasn’t mentioned really preferring one brand over another. I’m pretty sure it’s what she feeds, or did feed at one point.


Also, consider Interceptor. It is an older heart worm drug and less likely to cause seizure problems. It is the only heart worm med I will use on my dogs.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

Karen, do you use the tablets or the chewable Interceptor Plus(with the wormer)?


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Melissa Brill said:


> Which med can you reduce the dose? I talked to my vet (Perry's on Heartgard) - but she said that the medicine isn't evenly distributed through it so you can't split it in half (for example) to reduce it... would be curious if there's one that is more divisible.


I’m not sure if the vet meant to reduce the dose of the medication he was on, or reduce the dose of a different preventative. But he was on Heartgard, so my guess is a different one. I’m not sure if he meant a different brand or form of Inermectin or a different drug. I wonder if he meant Interceptor, because it’s available with separate doses for dogs under 12lbs and dogs 10-20, but Heartgard is all dogs under 25. 

I thought dosing was mentioned on the forum before because there is a way to give a heartworm preventative at different doses but only in one form, and I know it’s not a chew. Maybe I’m confusing a conversation about fleas or ticks.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tere said:


> Karen, do you use the tablets or the chewable Interceptor Plus(with the wormer)?


JUST Interceptor. Not the “plus”. It’s SUPPOSED to be chewable, but none of MY dogs will willingly eat it! LOL!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

krandall said:


> JUST Interceptor. Not the “plus”. It’s SUPPOSED to be chewable, but none of MY dogs will willingly eat it! LOL!


Scout and Truffles have been on Interceptor Plus for several years. When I put it in their mouth they would just drop it. I wrap it in a little soft cheese and down it goes. 😊


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

It’s funny how many dogs I know that won’t eat the Interceptor on their own. They really should improve the taste or smell or something. On the other hand, Molly thinks her Heartgard chew is the best thing ever. She rolls over and does tricks whenever she sees it coming!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Molly120213 said:


> It’s funny how many dogs I know that won’t eat the Interceptor on their own. They really should improve the taste or smell or something. On the other hand, Molly thinks her Heartgard chew is the best thing ever. She rolls over and does tricks whenever she sees it coming!


Meh. I'm pretty good at pilling dogs.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> Meh. I'm pretty good at pilling dogs.


For Perry a little peanut butter goes a long way. If I'm worried that he won't take it then a little extra peanut butter on my finger to keep him licking after he takes the pill and he never even notices. Generally though I just throw his heartgard and any pills in his food and he never even notices. 

I do sometimes just make him take the pill dry (hardest with his trazadone because it's a quarter of a pill so is a little chalky and sometimes gets stuck) but he enjoys it more the other ways


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Brill said:


> Which med can you reduce the dose? I talked to my vet (Perry's on Heartgard) - but she said that the medicine isn't evenly distributed through it so you can't split it in half (for example) to reduce it... would be curious if there's one that is more divisible.


My understanding is that you can reduce the dose by giving it every six vs. every four weeks. However, some vets say this is risky. Some folks only give during certain periods of the year based upon your climate. The vets I have had do not like these approaches because of the high risk in our area and because the mosquitoes are becoming resistant to the drugs.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> For Perry a little peanut butter goes a long way. If I'm worried that he won't take it then a little extra peanut butter on my finger to keep him licking after he takes the pill and he never even notices. Generally though I just throw his heartgard and any pills in his food and he never even notices.
> 
> I do sometimes just make him take the pill dry (hardest with his trazadone because it's a quarter of a pill so is a little chalky and sometimes gets stuck) but he enjoys it more the other ways


Kodi has gotten to the point that I hand him a pill and he swallows it, because he knows I’ll give him a cookie right after! LOL!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> My understanding is that you can reduce the dose by giving it every six vs. every four weeks. However, some vets say this is risky. Some folks only give during certain periods of the year based upon your climate. The vets I have had do not like these approaches because of the high risk in our area and because the mosquitoes are becoming resistant to the drugs.


The way it was explained to me by my vet was that the interval for dosing was planned by the manufacturers based on the knowledge that people would forget and let it slip. So it is effective still at 6 weeks but SAFE at 4 weeks, and if you forget for a week or a little longer, you are still OK. When she talked to me about the 6 week dosing, she was VERY CLEAR that there is no room for error on the 6 week dosing schedule. If you miss even a day, you can get into trouble. 

Also, I hope that everyone is clear that heartworm meds are not a “preventative” per se. They KILL microfillaria in the blood stream. When you dose your dog, you are killing any that they have been exposed to in the last 4-6 weeks, BEFORE they have a chance to trpurn into “heart worms”. They do not really protect your dog from infection… they kill any brewing infection your dog has picked up.


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## Mando's Mommy (Dec 8, 2020)

I have to crush the Interceptor and mix it with pumpkin purée. If I don’t crush it finely enough, Mando either won’t touch it or spits it out. 🙄


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Mando's Mommy said:


> I have to crush the Interceptor and mix it with pumpkin purée. If I don’t crush it finely enough, Mando either won’t touch it or spits it out. 🙄


You need to learn to pill a dog!


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## Mando's Mommy (Dec 8, 2020)

krandall said:


> You need to learn to pill a dog!


I’m all ears! Mando doesn’t like peanut butter and is lactose-intolerant (even though he loves cheese). I tried stuffing his medicine in boiled chicken (his favorite) but he ate the chicken and spit out the meds. He’s too smart for his own good! 🤓🤣


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Mando's Mommy said:


> I’m all ears! Mando doesn’t like peanut butter and is lactose-intolerant (even though he loves cheese). I tried stuffing his medicine in boiled chicken (his favorite) but he ate the chicken and spit out the meds. He’s too smart for his own good! 🤓🤣


Forget trying to hide it. It just makes them suspicious. Have his favorite treats at the ready. Open his mouth, put the pill as far back as you can. Close his mouth and hold it closed. Stroke his throat and tell him to "swallow". Stroking his throat may help. When you FEEL him swallow, IMMEDIATELY give him a cookie. (This will help if you were wrong, and it's still "hiding" in his mouth somewhere, because he'll then probably swallow both together!!!) Follow with a second cookie and a BIG GOOD BOY!!!

Kodi has had to take a pill every day for so long that at this point, I can just hand him the pill and he swallows it himself, KNOWING that the cookies are coming... no "manhandling" required. But it took a long time to get to that stage, and probably won't happen with a dog who only needs pills once in a while!


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Kojo's Stella & Chewy Freeze dried dinner patties arrived today. Says 5 pattied for 15 lb doh. I broke up one patty and reconstituted in some water. Mixed it into his regular (he won't eat any more). Miracle. He immediately ate the entire bowl. No food hesitancy at all. Was quite interested as I prepared it. He may not be on Stella & Chewy 100% but have it mixed with other wet food. So far, a big hit. And very happy Hava dog and Hava Mom.


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## LWalks (Feb 7, 2021)

krandall said:


> Forget trying to hide it. It just makes them suspicious. Have his favorite treats at the ready. Open his mouth, put the pill as far back as you can. Close his mouth and hold it closed. Stroke his throat and tell him to "swallow". Stroking his throat may help. When you FEEL him swallow, IMMEDIATELY give him a cookie. (This will help if you were wrong, and it's still "hiding" in his mouth somewhere, because he'll then probably swallow both together!!!) Follow with a second cookie and a BIG GOOD BOY!!!
> 
> Kodi has had to take a pill every day for so long that at this point, I can just hand him the pill and he swallows it himself, KNOWING that the cookies are coming... no "manhandling" required. But it took a long time to get to that stage, and probably won't happen with a dog who only needs pills once in a while!


Totally agree—- pilling them SO much easier than trying to hide it. Charlie would always pick the pill out of whatever we stuffed it in, but he’s now great about swallowing them. Good to know about the interceptor though— we’re about to start Jolene on it late this month, and she’s picky as is!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LWalks said:


> Totally agree—- pilling them SO much easier than trying to hide it. Charlie would always pick the pill out of whatever we stuffed it in, but he’s now great about swallowing them. Good to know about the interceptor though— we’re about to start Jolene on it late this month, and she’s picky as is!


Fortunately, the ones for the small weight dogs are TINY!!!


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

No matter how I give a pill, I check to make sure the sneaky little black one actually has swallowed the pill. I check his face and body for it. He is so good at faking it and it is easy to miss.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Kojo ate Stelly & Chewy Freeze dried TURKEY dinner patties only one day after done with transitioning. Then wouldn't eat it. So tried new flavor, SURF N TURF which is salmon & beef. Add teaspon of American Journey Wild Alaska salmon oil. He consistently eats entire bowl immediately now. I guess he was tired of poultry flavor. I also got a bag of Stella & Chewy Marvelous Red Meat (beef, lamb and goat). Haven't tried that one yet. Stella & Chewy even have venison which would be a good try for dogs with food allergies. The Salmon oil is high in omega-3. So much food is too high in Omega-6, so salmon oil helps bring that into better balance. Kojo likes the Salmon oil. I put a 1/2 teaspoon in his food twice a day. Supposed to refrigerate after opening bottle.


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## BoosDad (Mar 8, 2020)

krandall said:


> Forget trying to hide it. It just makes them suspicious. Have his favorite treats at the ready. Open his mouth, put the pill as far back as you can. Close his mouth and hold it closed. Stroke his throat and tell him to "swallow". Stroking his throat may help. When you FEEL him swallow, IMMEDIATELY give him a cookie. (This will help if you were wrong, and it's still "hiding" in his mouth somewhere, because he'll then probably swallow both together!!!) Follow with a second cookie and a BIG GOOD BOY!!!


This also is the method I use, though I wear 2 gloves on my pilling hand as the skin on my hands is so thin.


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