# German Shepherd Dog



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I finally found a picture of my grandfather's German Shepherd Dog. My grandfather purchased one of the first four dogs to arrive in America. Unfortunately records and pictures have gone astray. All I was able to track down from a cousin was this picture. I remember some of the stories my mother used to tell us when her father brought Asta home when she was a young girl. The breed has transformed vastly from it's origins. Much to its detriment. Here's Asta


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

And here's what our wonderful breeding has done to this dog.





!


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

That's so cool, I love old pictures. Yes, I agree with this breed changing physically, it's hard to watch them walk as show dogs in the ring. I fing it so strange that there are different standards with them as show dogs and working dogs.


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

That is one of the worst things I've ever seen. How can they do that to those animals? I had a german shepherd growing up and Linny certainly didn't look like those freak of nature "show dogs".


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeah , I won't even go there. It's a disgrace ,some of the bull**** that goes on in the show ring.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

ivyagogo said:


> That is one of the worst things I've ever seen. How can they do that to those animals? I had a german shepherd growing up and Linny certainly didn't look like those freak of nature "show dogs".


Right on Ivy.


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## Kalico (Jan 11, 2012)

Beautiful! Yes, they certainly have changed. My bf and I were shocked seeing this year's German Shepherd in the Westminster show. The slope of his back was just so pronounced.


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## jemmax (Jan 3, 2012)

German Shepherds are one of my favorite large breeds but to seem them in the show ring is so disheartening....their beauty and strength is so distorted in their shapes it is hard to watch....if the breeding standard is the show dog version I would take the working dog any day of the week.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Kalico said:


> Beautiful! Yes, they certainly have changed. My bf and I were shocked seeing this year's German Shepherd in the Westminster show. The slope of his back was just so pronounced.


yep the best in show group was nearly all examples of this poor breeding over the years. A disgrace.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

That picture of yours is certainly a treasure!
I noticed how odd the German Shep. looked when I watched Westminster this year. They look deformed. What a shame.


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## Kalico (Jan 11, 2012)

Dave, do you mean all the dogs in the final best in show group? Sometimes I see certain breeds that have changed drastically over the last fifty years (my own pet peeve is the Labrador), but the changes don't seem damaging physically to the dog, such as the German Shepherd's sloped back seems to be. But I know you can't always tell by looking. And I don't know enough about dogs to really make judgments about the health/breeding unless it's a physical trait that really stands out. I thought the dalmation in the final group was beautiful. After watching the video you posted I can see that the dachshund's legs are very short in comparison to decades past.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

That's sad. I'm not sure why the breed would have been bred to that standard. It looks painful.

The one thought I had as I watched that was our own warnings to prospective puppy buyers that they should buy puppies from breeders who show their dogs. I still believe that showing is important, however, it's stuff that goes on like this that makes people think they're better off without it.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Kalico said:


> Dave, do you mean all the dogs in the final best in show group? Sometimes I see certain breeds that have changed drastically over the last fifty years (my own pet peeve is the Labrador), but the changes don't seem damaging physically to the dog, such as the German Shepherd's sloped back seems to be. But I know you can't always tell by looking. And I don't know enough about dogs to really make judgments about the health/breeding unless it's a physical trait that really stands out. I thought the dalmation in the final group was beautiful. After watching the video you posted I can see that the dachshund's legs are very short in comparison to decades past.


Not familiar with the Kerry Blue, but the Pekinese, SH Dachshund, Dalmation , GSD, and Doberman all have been problematic, . And are worse off than the original breeds. There are a huge number of problems in this business, because that's what it's becoming. Breed standards are changing for the wrong reasons. The BBC documentary nailed that a few years ago. The Kennel Club is at least doing something about some of these issues. The King Charles Spaniel is one of the saddest examples.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> And here's what our wonderful breeding has done to this dog.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


While I agree that I hate what they've done to the GSD, that video is also a little misleading because the aspect ratio is off... it is squashed horizontally to make EVERYTHING look weird. Just look at the people's faces!

Showing is a double edged sword. It is important that breeders have a venue where someone (hopefully) impartial can help the breeder continue to breed to the breed standard. BUT it is up to the breed organizations to create a SOUND standard for their breed and not change the standard to go along with what happens to be popular among breeders. When the judge at Crufts says that the winning dog conforms more closely to the breed standard than a working dog, that is a problem with the way the STANDARD is written, not with showing or judging.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jabojenny said:


> That's so cool, I love old pictures. Yes, I agree with this breed changing physically, it's hard to watch them walk as show dogs in the ring. I fing it so strange that there are different standards with them as show dogs and working dogs.


GSD's are certainly not the only dogs where there are two different "sets" of dogs. Most of the hunting dogs have "show" lines and "working" lines.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kalico said:


> Beautiful! Yes, they certainly have changed. My bf and I were shocked seeing this year's German Shepherd in the Westminster show. The slope of his back was just so pronounced.


And as the vet said about the footage he was shown, that dog, assumedly one of the top GSD's in the country really looked ataxic. It wasn't only weirdly built, but it looked like it had a neurological problem too. And that is supposedly "correct". I don't know what kind of "job" that dog could do, or how long it is likely to stay even "serviceably sound". (as we say in the horse world)


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Karen the AKC is a disgrace. They've got more than number/financial problems. They've got no balls.http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogb...eport-on-health-problems-with-akc-breeds.html


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Not familiar with the Kerry Blue,


I have two friends who breed Kerry Blues, and that breed seems to be in pretty good shape... but it's not a terribly popular breed. It seems that the more popular a breed is, the more trouble it runs into.



davetgabby said:


> Breed standards are changing for the wrong reasons.


Yes!!!



davetgabby said:


> The Kennel Club is at least doing something about some of these issues.


They aren't doing enough, IMO. I think this is something that REALLY needs to be policed by the breed organizations. They are the people who know the dogs.



davetgabby said:


> The King Charles Spaniel is one of the saddest examples.


It breaks my heart. One of the sweetest dog breeds in the world, and essentially ruined past retrieval. My understanding is that just about 100% will have heart disease by 10, and over half have it by 5. Fifty percent of Cavaliers have syringomyelia, where part of the brain actually protrudes from the skull blocking the flow of cerebrospinal fluid and causing intense pain.

If you want to read the horrors of indescriminate dog breeding, read some of this.

http://www.cavalierhealth.org/

Before getting a Kodi, I had considered a CCK until talking to my vet friends. The answer I got from all of them was, "They are WONDERFUL dogs... and they will break your heart."


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## Kalico (Jan 11, 2012)

krandall said:


> And as the vet said about the footage he was shown, that dog, assumedly one of the top GSD's in the country really looked ataxic. It wasn't only weirdly built, but it looked like it had a neurological problem too. And that is supposedly "correct". I don't know what kind of "job" that dog could do, or how long it is likely to stay even "serviceably sound". (as we say in the horse world)


This makes me so sad. I had no idea of the seriousness of this issue. I don't know if I'll be able to watch a dog show in the same way again.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Karen the AKC is a disgrace. They've got more than number/financial problems. They've got no balls.http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogb...eport-on-health-problems-with-akc-breeds.html


I wouldn't argue with you in the least that AKC has problems. I suspect, in this respect, the other major dog show organizations are no better. BUT, I still put the breeding of very extreme dogs with health problems as a result of that extreme breeding at the feet of the breed organizations who are responsible for their own standard.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Karen, certainly the Breed organizations are to blame as well. But they will continue on this route if the AKC doesnt do something . At least now the Kennel Club is doing something about their admitted problems. http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/2223


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Karen, certainly the Breed organizations are to blame as well. But they will continue on this route if the AKC doesnt do something . At least now the Kennel Club is doing something about their admitted problems. http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/2223


That's a good start, but what are they going to do about breeds that are completely non-viable without human intervention, like Bulldogs and Pugs that can't give birth to their own babies, all the brachycephalic breeds and, saddest of all, the CKC? I don't know if it's POSSIBLE to return those breeds to something functional.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

krandall said:


> That's a good start, but what are they going to do about breeds that are completely non-viable without human intervention, like Bulldogs and Pugs that can't give birth to their own babies, all the brachycephalic breeds and, saddest of all, the CKC? I don't know if it's POSSIBLE to return those breeds to something functional.


that's the sad part. Like the link on the link article talks about.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

poor puppies..  

I had always have loved the way German Shepherds moved but the past few years I switched my allegiance to the Belgian breeds. They look normal.

During the Westminster show, there were times you could hear the short-nosed dogs wheezing as they tried to walk back and forth. Who would want a dog who got breathless after a short walk?

Poor puppies.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> poor puppies..
> 
> I had always have loved the way German Shepherds moved but the past few years I switched my allegiance to the Belgian breeds. They look normal.


They are more normal looking, but I have yet to meet one that wasn't either sharp or timid temperamentally. They seem to train well for Obedience, but outside the ring, I keep a close eye on them.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Ahhh, one of those types. So, they are pretty but one of those breeds which you always have to be careful, especially around kids. You have to with any dogs but some of the guarding dogs need extra precautions. 

I will stick with what I know. OCD/ADHD Aussies and bouncy Havs.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> Ahhh, one of those types. So, they are pretty but one of those breeds which you always have to be careful, especially around kids. You have to with any dogs but some of the guarding dogs need extra precautions.
> 
> I will stick with what I know. OCD/ADHD Aussies and bouncy Havs.


I'm not sure exactly what it is about them. They seem to be very "one person" (or at least "one family") dogs, and also have a hyper-vigilance about them. They are pretty, but particularly since I always have a little dog with me, they worry me a bit. We keep our distance.


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