# Help on deciding between crate or ex-pen @ night



## KarmaKat (Feb 19, 2010)

I am indecisive right now about permanent sleeping arrangements for Tybee. He will be 11 weeks old this Sunday. I would be grateful for all thoughts on my situation.

The problem is that I have four cats that are not yet used to having a 5 pound addition to "their" house. So the sleeping choices seem to be:

*1. Tybee can sleep in a safe crate near our bed. 
*
pros: Tybee seems happy sleeping next to me. He goes up to 6 hours without needing to use the potty. He goes right back in without a fuss. His crate is "cat proof and safe." He has nighttime companionship.

cons: Sometimes I don't get done with my housework till late at night, so Tybee has to stay up or sleep in his ex-pen until crate time. Since he is crated, I have to escort him to the weepad/potty. The cats prefer a Tybee-free bedroom. When I tried to transition to another food, he had to potty more often. 

*2. Tybee can sleep in another room inside of a 3' x 6' apx. ex-pen with a wee-pad/litter box setup.*

pros: Tybee can go to sleep and not get disturbed by being moved into the crate when I go to bed. The cats are thrilled. Tybee seems content as long as a soft light is on. He uses his wee pad by himself and goes back to sleep. He settle himself quickly if someone opens the door to check on him.

cons: The door to Tybee's room has to be shut at night to keep out the cats. I worry that as a "companion" dog he feels isolated. A low wattage ceiling light must be left on or he gets scared. I worry that the light will interfere with true rest.

So there it is. I think I have to choose between providing Tybee with 1) "freedom" of movement and potty use with less nighttime companionship or 2) less freedom of movement, having to ask or hold it for potty, but with more nightime companionship.

I don't think an ex-pen in our bedroom would work. The cats might get territorial, and I might not wake up if they go too close or get into the ex-pen. Also, there is limited room for a big ex-pen.

BTW, Tybee is out of his room and gets tons of companionship during the day. In fact, I find myself having to monitor attention so as not to over do it. Someone is always home with him except for when I have to run a "no dogs allowed" errand. I try to save those for later in the day when hubby and kids are home. I would like him to get used to being in "his" room to keep him separate from cats when I can't be home.

I really prefer option 2, but need reassurance that I am not isolating the poor guy.

TY in advance for your thoughts.

Can I also take this moment to give Tybee a good job shout-out as he already knows the meanings of leave it, no-bite, nice kisses, settle and down - not that he always complies


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Hello. I will also go with #2 when my puppy gets home. If he is happy being in his Xpen , keep the soft light on and everybody will have a good night. He gets all your attention during the day so there's no reason to feel bad by leaving him in another room at night. He seems to be a really good boy so you are a lucky mom !!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kodi has slept in his ex-pen/crate combination since his first night with us. While there is no "door" on the room his pen is in (it's in the dining room) we are on the second floor while we are on the first. So he is at least as isolated as Tybee would be.

Not only does this arrangement not bother him, he is VERY comfortable with it. If I stay up later than he wants to (rare, but it happens<g>) he puts himself to bed.

While we aren't concerned about our cat bothering him, we were concerned about her "rights" in the household. She has always slept with us, and it seemed really unfair to let a puppy usurp her place. So Kodi stays downstairs, and the second floor is her "safe zone", where she doesn't have to put up with him!

Here's a photo of his "bed room", with him sprawled out on his back, sound asleep. He was younger then... now he can't have any stuffed animals or he tears them up. But you get the idea! Oh, and the towels on the back and side are partly to make it a little more cozy and den-like, and partly because there is a vent nearby. I didn't want the air conditioner or furnace blasting directly on him.


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## KarmaKat (Feb 19, 2010)

Kodi looks so cute. What a gorgeous Hav. Thank you so much for the picture. It really helps to see the lay out.

I know what you mean about usurping kitty bed rights. My little 11 pound Maria will "share" the bed most of the time, but she also arbitrarily kicks off our 18 lb. head honcho Thomas O'Malley. 

I feel so much better now. Tybee really seems to be quite fine with option 2 (ex-pen in another room), and now I won't worry that I am interfering with his companionship traits. 

Thank you Karen


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## KarmaKat (Feb 19, 2010)

Teresita, Thank you for posting your intentions to use the ex-pen. It is reassuring to know I am not a lone wolf in my ex-pen/sleeping choice.

Can't wait to meet your puppy-to-be


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## dainnj (May 3, 2009)

My Luna sleeps in an expen in our family room. When we first got her, we would put her in the expen during the day, but bring her crate up into our bedroom at night. Once she started sleeping through the night and outgrew her little crate we started leaving her in the expen in the family room at night. She's very happy with this arrangement and we are also. I'm a light sleeper, so I don't hear every little noise, but I can hear her if there's a problem. Our plan is to eventually let her decide where she wants to sleep, but that's once she's completely housetrained and we can trust that she won't get in trouble. Like you, I'm mostly home during the day, so I don't worry that she doesn't get enough companionship.

Tybee looks so cute. I love black and whites!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KarmaKat said:


> Kodi looks so cute. What a gorgeous Hav. Thank you so much for the picture. It really helps to see the lay out.
> 
> I know what you mean about usurping kitty bed rights. My little 11 pound Maria will "share" the bed most of the time, but she also arbitrarily kicks off our 18 lb. head honcho Thomas O'Malley.
> 
> ...


Thanks! We think Kodi is pretty special, but we might be a WEE bit prejudiced! As far as sleeping in another room interfering with companionship traits... I am typing this with one hand, as the other one is supporting Kodi's head as he sleeps curled up in my lap. He gets PLENTY of cuddle time, but still is self-assured enough not to have any problems when we do need to leave him alone for a few hours.


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## KarmaKat (Feb 19, 2010)

Damaris, Thank you for your post. It makes me feel more secure that Tybee will be okay with daytime loving 

Luna is so pretty. Very sweet eyes.


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## KarmaKat (Feb 19, 2010)

Awwwww Karen. I can picture Kodi all snuggled up on your lap. He is special 

Tybee did really well last night. He went in at about 10pm and didn't make a fuss at all until 6am. Turns out he needed his wee pad changed. 

(We changed the ceiling bulb to a 25 watt bulb before we put him in the ex-pen.) 

Thank you everyone for helping with this. I think the whole house got a good nights sleep last night. :tea:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KarmaKat said:


> Awwwww Karen. I can picture Kodi all snuggled up on your lap. He is special
> 
> Tybee did really well last night. He went in at about 10pm and didn't make a fuss at all until 6am. Turns out he needed his wee pad changed.
> 
> ...


I suspect that over a period of time you could probably change from the overhead light to just a night light.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

After reading some of Sandi's posts on another thread, I am inclined to believe you should use Choice 2. 
A. I think it might be important to not "over-do" the companionship. (i.e., talking to them all the time, having someone with them every minute.
B. It is good on several levels that he learns to be by himself at times. (i.e., perhaps having to do so due to family circumstances, overnight trips to the vet, visits with family, etc"

Just my thoughts. I know my cats are upset with the new guy on the block coming in and after thinking about it, they need their time also..thanks for starting this thread!


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## dainnj (May 3, 2009)

Glad to hear you got a good night's sleep.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Tybee will adjust to whatever you decide is best for your situation. He does not need to sleep in your room to be happy although dogs are pack animals and prefer to be with companions..

At this age, my solution would be larger crate in your room with bed and pee area. So
in time maybe he and the cats will be able to be together.


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

I vote option #2 as well, though it seems like you've settled on it anyway! 
One, I think giving a puppy access to an area at night to relieve himself will helps with housebreaking (vs. peeing the crate or learning that you'll wake up at every moment to go outside!). 
Two, though they are definitely companion dogs, as mentioned above there will ALWAYS be times they have to be away from mom/dad/other pets. It just happens sometimes. Provided they get the attention/activity/general stimulation they need, there's nothing wrong with the other room at night. 

One of the best things we can give to our pets is to equip them with the skills to "cope" if mom isn't there every second! 

~Kat


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SMARTY said:


> Tybee will adjust to whatever you decide is best for your situation. He does not need to sleep in your room to be happy although dogs are pack animals and prefer to be with companions..
> 
> At this age, my solution would be larger crate in your room with bed and pee area. So
> in time maybe he and the cats will be able to be together.


I found that a crate that was big enough for a bed and a pee area didn't work at all for Kodi when we tried it on vacation. He clearly thought the potty was too close to his bed, so would try to "hold it" longer than he could, leading to the only crate accidents he ever had.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Personally, I would never have any of my pups sleep anywhere but in my room unless they chose to! But, I don't have any other animals.

Roscoe sleeps in his crate beside our bed. As a teeny pup he used to wake up to potty once in the middle of the night. At about 3 months old, he started sleeping through the night, from about 11pm to 7am. Now he will stay happily in his crate for 10+ hours! On the weekends, I always wake up at my regular time to use the bathroom, so I usually let Roscoe snuggle in bed with us until we get up. It's his special time with mommy and daddy, and he LOVES to sleep on our bed.

Anyway, I think you should do whatever works best for you, Tybee, and the cats. Just remember, the dog and the cats are eventually going to have to get along. He is not always going to need an ex pen, as one day he will (hopefully) be totally trustworthy in the house. At that time, he may not be so content to sleep in the ex pen setup.

PS - Most nights, Roscoe falls asleep in his ex pen or somewhere on the living room floor before Tim and I are ready for bed. We just tell him "hey buddy, time for nite nites" and he follows us right into the bedroom and straight into his crate. I don't think that you being up later than his regular bedtime will be an issue when it comes to where he sleeps!


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## KarmaKat (Feb 19, 2010)

Hi Everyone. Just an update. I moved Tybee to our room in an expen setup near the bed (like Karens but in bedroom). 

Turns out we get more sleep in the morning that way. If he stays in the other room, he goes to bed earlier but wants to join us early in the morning. In our room, he just hangs out till we are awake. Our schedule changes bother him less that way. 

Thanks again everyone 

ps - Natalie, I still remember my first dog (over 20 yrs ago) cuddling up on my pillow at night  She was a rescue and very scared, so she felt safe next to my head. Her name was Trigger  It is a very sweet memory that I will have forever.


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