# Time Outs



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Just wanted to post some info on "timeouts" . One of the critical things with using this method of (negative punishment). and that's what it is in terms of operant conditioning. (who cares), is that the timing has to be precise. It has to happen within two seconds of the unwanted behavior that you are trying to "correct" or punish. One of the biggest misconceptions about "Positive Dog Trainers" is that they don't use punishment. But this is not true. It is virtually impossible to NOT use punishment at some time . But the biggest message on the use of punishment is, that it doesn't have to be strongly aversive ,intimidating ,fearful or physically painful But without boring you on operant conditioning terms, here are three articles on Timeouts and in specific to the use of crates/expens.

1. The crate and the time-out 
Yes, you can use a crate for time-outs without causing "crate-hate." Do you like your bedroom? Sure you do-even if

you don't want to be there on a Friday night. Your dog can like his crate too, even if he doesn't want to be there

while scheming to scam some chicken off the dining room table. Crates are okay for time-outs, because it isn't the

crate that is punishing&#8230; it is the loss of freedom in the middle of fun times that is punishing (see my Summer 2004

article for more on rewards and punishment). The same reasoning extends to children: they can be sent to their room

as a consequence for misbehaviour without learning to fear or hate their room. Your dog will only become afraid of

his crate if bad things happen while he is in there-so never scold him while he is inside. Time-outs don't need to

be long; 30 seconds to 3 minutes is plenty. And don't forget to give your Cool Hand Luke a clean slate once he's

done his time&#8230; no grudge-holding allowed. Jennifer Messer http://www.moderndogmagazine.com/articles/trainers-

truth-about-crates/174

2. "I never use the crate as a punishment; I don't want my puppy to have a bad association."
This is a very common statement I hear, and there is no basis to this. A timeout is used to teach a dog that the

behavior that she did resulted in her getting taken away from where she wants to be. If you put her in the crate

for a timeout, do so for a short period of time immediately following the inappropriate behavior, such as jumping

on you, biting, or chewing on furniture. Then, take her out after 5-30 seconds as long as she is calm and then

reward her for anything but the offending behavior. If she performs the inappropriate behavior again say, "Timeout"

and repeat. As long as you make sure to reward good behavior and use a timeout for inappropriate behavior, she will

learn not to do the inappropriate behavior because it doesn't benefit her. She won't hate the crate itself, she

will not like the fact that she was put in there and taken away from all the fun. That is an important distinction.

The only caveat to this rule is that dogs that already have separation anxiety often do not like being in crates

and can have a panic attack. These dogs are not good candidates for using this timeout strategy. Learn about

timeouts and teaching a dog to stop certain behaviors. Jeff Millman

3.Time out! - at your wit's end? Calmly and firmly give your dog a "time out." Pick out a spot - contrary to

popular belief the crate is just fine - and place your dog there for a time out. Time outs are not loud, scary or

very long: the point of a time out is social isolation, only for 30 seconds or at most a couple of minutes. Make

the connection between the undesired behavior and the time out clear, and you'll see an improvement. As a bonus,

you'll get a chance to regroup yourself. Eric Goebelbecker


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Nice article Dave. Thanks!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

HavaneseSoon said:


> Nice article Dave. Thanks!


Thanks Linda, but it probably doesn' t apply to Jack and Dexter, how are they doing?


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Well....I do not use a crate for a time out.....but, if Dexter gets on my last nerve by running into the kitchen constantly wanting a little snack and I said no.....I will put a leash on him until he calms down. It works! 

Dexter and Jack are doing great! They egg each other on to play. They are fascinating to watch. I am learning the dog language!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Good stuff Linda,. yeah you'll learn lots by having two.


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## IslandLady (Nov 7, 2010)

Very "timely" article, Dave. Thanks!

eace:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

IslandLady said:


> Very "timely" article, Dave. Thanks!
> 
> eace:


You're welcome Sheila, does that mean it's time for a time out.?ound:


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## IslandLady (Nov 7, 2010)

Quit laughin', Dave!

She's close to 15 weeks. Does that make this like the "Terrible Twos"?
Or is that still ahead of us? :jaw:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Plenty ahead. LOL http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/adolescent-dog-training-18-weeks-2-years


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Roscoe goes in the ex-pen for "time out" when he's being incessantly yapping. If we command him "quiet" and he doesn't listen, he goes in the ex-pen for a 5 minute time out. When we leave the house, we also put them in the ex-pen, and he trots right over when we tell him it's time.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I've used the crate for a time out. Guess which of the babies occupies the space the most. Not that it's often, mind you, but still . . .


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## ls-indy (Apr 10, 2008)

Dave - Daisy and Beau have new "neighbor dogs" next door - daschunds that are "yappy". Every time the neighbors let out their dogs - the daschunds start barking. Daisy and Beau (in the house with us) hear them and bark in response.

Do you think crating them for a short time out would be an appropriate response if they don't respond to "quiet" or "that's enough"??? 

We didn't use to have any dogs next door. The new dogs are "snappy" and not very friendly, so we can't really have them socialize. The people are very nice and apologize for their dogs behavior.... but I can't see where the dogs will ever "make friends"...


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

ls-indy said:


> Dave - Daisy and Beau have new "neighbor dogs" next door - daschunds that are "yappy". Every time the neighbors let out their dogs - the daschunds start barking. Daisy and Beau (in the house with us) hear them and bark in response.
> 
> Do you think crating them for a short time out would be an appropriate response if they don't respond to "quiet" or "that's enough"???
> 
> We didn't use to have any dogs next door. The new dogs are "snappy" and not very friendly, so we can't really have them socialize. The people are very nice and apologize for their dogs behavior.... but I can't see where the dogs will ever "make friends"...


Hi Lynda, how do you know they are snappy. Have they met at all . Even if you are not interested in them meeting , which might help measurably. You have to make sure to properly teach a shush or quiet. cue. Can you get them to shush under other barking situations?


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I haven't done time out in the crate yet, mostly because we only use the crates for training, shows, vactions and if there is too much company and I can't keep an eye on them. Instead if Yogi starts his guarding behavior usually it is evening I am on the couch he is lying next to me and one of the other dogs starts to come over the minute he starts even one low grrr, it is 'No down, sit', then I let the other dog up on the other side of the couch the minute he stops the grrr's and looks at me he is invited to join us back on the couch. He seldoms Grrr's anymore at the other two at this poing I still have to keep an eye out for this behavior all of the time.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> I haven't done time out in the crate yet, mostly because we only use the crates for training, shows, vactions and if there is too much company and I can't keep an eye on them. Instead if Yogi starts his guarding behavior usually it is evening I am on the couch he is lying next to me and one of the other dogs starts to come over the minute he starts even one low grrr, it is 'No down, sit', then I let the other dog up on the other side of the couch the minute he stops the grrr's and looks at me he is invited to join us back on the couch. He seldoms Grrr's anymore at the other two at this poing I still have to keep an eye out for this behavior all of the time.


I've never used time outs as a punishment either, and am still not convinced that it's the best approach. We did use it as "calm down time" during that early evening "witching hour" that so many adolescent puppies go through, but it certainly wasn't a punishment. He got put in the pen with a chew to calm down and get his brain back in order.

I find that if Kodi is doing something I don't want him doing, the most effective method of changing that behavior is to immediately put him into "working" mode, even doing something as simple as "puppy push-ups" (sit, down, sit, down) to get his brain re-engaged with positive behavior. then I can reward him for that, and I've broken the fixation on whatever the "naughty" behavior was.

But then, I didn't believe in or use "traditional" time-outs with my kids, either. Time-outs in our house were, "Go to your room, and when you are calm enough that we can talk about this, come down and find me." Seemed to work well for my "human animals" too.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> I've never used time outs as a punishment either, and am still not convinced that it's the best approach. We did use it as "calm down time" during that early evening "witching hour" that so many adolescent puppies go through, but it certainly wasn't a punishment. He got put in the pen with a chew to calm down and get his brain back in order.
> 
> I find that if Kodi is doing something I don't want him doing, the most effective method of changing that behavior is to immediately put him into "working" mode, even doing something as simple as "puppy push-ups" (sit, down, sit, down) to get his brain re-engaged with positive behavior. then I can reward him for that, and I've broken the fixation on whatever the "naughty" behavior was.
> 
> But then, I didn't believe in or use "traditional" time-outs with my kids, either. Time-outs in our house were, "Go to your room, and when you are calm enough that we can talk about this, come down and find me." Seemed to work well for my "human animals" too.


 I thought go to your room was a time out. That is what I have always thought. And what is the difference between the crate and a child's room?
I have used time out a few times like trying to teach not to bark at the vacume and lately when Maddie and zoey get to playing to hard. I guess that is the same as just calming down.


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## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

I will put Sophie in time out if she continues to do one bad behavior. She was untying the ribbons on my chairs over and over again. Every time she did it I put her in my mudroom for no more than 5 minutes.The first time she would come out and do it again. Back she went. It took about six times, and now she doesn't touch the ribbons on the chairs. I don't consider it punishment unless it's for an extended amount of time, and then they couldn't possibly know what they did to get them there.I've just started time out when she tries to chew my kitchen table. I have tried distractions, like giving her her bully, but when she has a mind set on something, time out is the only thing that works.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Sophies mom, Rub a little 'Vicks' on to the spot where she likes to chew on your table. Dogs do not like the smell or taste of it.

Karen, Watching for and dealing with the resource guarding behavior has been hard because it can go from one to ten in seconds. Yes, the down, sit is so his brain gets involved with a new task at first it was more the puppy push ups. The off the couch is a type of punishment taking away what he values but the minute he gives me the behavior not grrrr'ing and looking at me, the reward is he gets to get back on the couch which seems to be high value to him. The timing is sooo important and he only does this in the evening when we're relaxed so I have to remain in high alert!!!! It took about a month for me to get the timing right. He only does it a bit now, when the other dogs start to come over he turns away from them or gets down for a minute. I know this will take many reps before I can let my guard down. He also resource guards when getting groomed he grrr's if the other dogs start to get too close. Does not guard food to just seems to be these, I do watch in case he has more I haven't noticed. He started this at about 2. I did not use time outs either with my children they were not effective for me, they did give me breathing space, but did not change the behavior.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> I thought go to your room was a time out. That is what I have always thought. And what is the difference between the crate and a child's room?
> I have used time out a few times like trying to teach not to bark at the vacume and lately when Maddie and zoey get to playing to hard. I guess that is the same as just calming down.


There is no difference between a crate and a child's room. The difference is in how it is used. As I already stated, I do not believe in "time outs" or putting a puppy in a crate or pen as a "punishment" or "consequence". Redirection is, IMO, much more effective. Replace behavior you don't want with behavior you do want.

It might stop some puppies from barking if you put them in a crate, especially if they are over-wound and need some time to settle down. If, however, it is used as a consequence, you're likely to end up with a puppy who barks in the crate. Better to figure out WHY the puppy is barking, and work directly on that.


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## ls-indy (Apr 10, 2008)

davetgabby said:


> Hi Lynda, how do you know they are snappy. Have they met at all . Even if you are not interested in them meeting , which might help measurably. You have to make sure to properly teach a shush or quiet. cue. Can you get them to shush under other barking situations?


Hi Dave - the neighbor told me Desi is snappy and very protective of her and her other daschund. When we've been out in the front yard (with the 4 dogs on leashes) she picks Desi up immediately. He barks the whole time we're talking and doesn't quiet down at all. Daisy and Beau will quiet down after the first few seconds.... They are interested in her other dog - but she kind of pulls the leash back away from our dogs. She is obviously embarrassed and apologizes for Desi's behavior and always says he's impossible and has always been this way etc.. When she's walks her dogs, she will cross the street when she sees other dogs approaching on the same side of the street. Her Desi lunges on the leash and barks from the opposite side of the street while Daisy and Beau will walk along just fine - after an initial barking response to her dogs as she drags them across the street. This same thing occurs with other dogs - not just Daisy and Beau.

Daisy and Beau bark when the doorbell rings - but will stop when we tell them "quiet" or "that's enough". Beau has had some trouble with "leash aggression" barking...but is getting much better because we start telling him "quiet is a good boy" at the first sign of any aggression and give him a treat for walking along nicely and not barking at other dogs when on the leash.

We live on a golf course and there is a cart path behind our house. We have 4' cedar shadowbox fencing and the path sits uphill from our yard so our dogs can see anything on the path....but not into the yard next door... People walk their dogs on the path all the time. Some are friends and they stop to come in our yard and let the dogs play. My dogs will sit out on the deck and not bark at dogs passing by. There is another havie, a black lab, a terrier mix and a Westie that are all neighborhood friends with our dogs. Additionally, my dogs play with my daughters, havie, American Eskimo and Aussie with no problems. They really LIKE other dogs.....

When the neighbor lets her dogs out, the daschunds start barking the second their door opens and run towards our fence growling and barking. If Daisy and Beau are in the house, they immediately run into the sunroom and bark in response. I send them out of the sunroom - but Beau in particular will continue to bark back at the daschunds....or lay by the doorway to the sunroom and growl in a low tone.... This is particularly aggravating when one of us is on the phone.... Daisy is sneaky. She usually give an initial small bark and then sits back and lets Beau take over the barking....and lets him get in trouble. Another smart havie!

If we're out on the deck (in the summer) and the dashunds are let out and start barking, Daisy and Beau will run around the sunroom to the fence, bark for just a few seconds, and then trot back to our deck looking quite proud of themselves! They don't keep barking when we're outside.... But the daschunds continue to bark and the neighbor usually call them in.

Don't know if you can picture this, but our deck is on the far side of the back (away from the daschunds yard) with the sunroom protruding from the back of the house in between our deck and their backyard.

I would prefer Daisy and Beau learn to ignore the daschunds barking every time they're let out.... that's why I wonder if time-out would work.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Karen, Watching for and dealing with the resource guarding behavior has been hard because it can go from one to ten in seconds. Yes, the down, sit is so his brain gets involved with a new task at first it was more the puppy push ups. The off the couch is a type of punishment taking away what he values but the minute he gives me the behavior not grrrr'ing and looking at me, the reward is he gets to get back on the couch which seems to be high value to him. The timing is sooo important and he only does this in the evening when we're relaxed so I have to remain in high alert!!!! It took about a month for me to get the timing right. He only does it a bit now, when the other dogs start to come over he turns away from them or gets down for a minute. I know this will take many reps before I can let my guard down. He also resource guards when getting groomed he grrr's if the other dogs start to get too close. Does not guard food to just seems to be these, I do watch in case he has more I haven't noticed. He started this at about 2.


I am lucky that Kodi has shown no signs of resource guarding, but that's pretty much what I'd do. We have a different problem we are working through with Kodi on the couches. He is allowed on the couches, but often he'll jump up and start to dig. I think this is actually nesting behavior, because I've also seen him do it to his bedding before lying down, but it sure doesn't do anything positive for the couches! So, the minute we hear him start to dig, we say, "Kodi! (in a sharp voice to get his attention) Sit quiet! (in a very quiet calm voice to calm him down) He will usually immediately sit down. The question is whether he'll SETTLE down, or whether he'll go back to digging. If he settles, he gets to stay. If he digs again, it's "Off!" and he needs to get off the couch. He's getting better about it, but it's far from perfect at this point!



The Laughing Magpie said:


> I did not use time outs either with my children they were not effective for me, they did give me breathing space, but did not change the behavior.


My kids were very verbal, very early. (wonder where they got that?) I also strongly believe that MOST small kids don't purposely do bad things. (at least mine didn't purposely push boundaries until they were teenagers, at which point, time outs are pretty meaningless anyway) I found that USUALLY, if they did something wrong, they didn't know any better, and we needed to have a conversation about it, setting clear limits. There is a saying in our house that Robbie never made the same mistake twice, but he made a new one every day.

The other time things sometimes went wrong was when emotions were running too high, or they were too wound up. (these were often the brother-brother altercations) Those were the times when sending them to their rooms until they were CALM enough for a conversation worked best.

I had to laugh about the time-outs giving you breathing space. I STILL remember the most effective "time out" that ever took place in our house. It was one of those rainy afternoons when the two of them were really getting on each other's nerves and on MY nerves. I don't remember exactly what they did, but I got SO angry that I realized there was a reason that some animal mothers eat their young. Whatever I walked in on, I just looked at the two of them and said, "I am going to my room for a time out, because I am too angry to talk to you right now. Until I come out, you are NOT to make a sound, and NOT to open my door. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?!?!" They both just nodded.

Eventually I did calm down, and we talked about the problem. But do you know, out of ALL the times I had to discipline my kids over the last 20 years, THAT afternoon is the one that is indelibly etched in their brains.:biggrin1:


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## ls-indy (Apr 10, 2008)

Karen - Daisy used to dig at the couch last year. We actually taught her not to with a command of "no digging." They are such smart dogs and can understand so much of what we say.....


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ls-indy said:


> Karen - Daisy used to dig at the couch last year. We actually taught her not to with a command of "no digging." They are such smart dogs and can understand so much of what we say.....


Oh, he knows what "no digging" means. He also knows what "sit quiet" means. He just seems to find it irresistible.<g> We'll continue to work on it. He HAS gone through several phases of getting sort of fixated on a habit that we had to discourage... one of the WORST was eating the fringe off our oriental rugs!!!! :frusty: While he was doing it, it seemed to go on forever, but it's been over a year now since he did it. He used to eat pillows too, and has stopped that! So I assume (I HOPE!!!) that if we continue working on this consistently, he'll stop this too.:biggrin1:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

krandall said:


> I've never used time outs as a punishment either, and am still not convinced that it's the best approach. We did use it as "calm down time" during that early evening "witching hour" that so many adolescent puppies go through, but it certainly wasn't a punishment. He got put in the pen with a chew to calm down and get his brain back in order.
> 
> I find that if Kodi is doing something I don't want him doing, the most effective method of changing that behavior is to immediately put him into "working" mode, even doing something as simple as "puppy push-ups" (sit, down, sit, down) to get his brain re-engaged with positive behavior. then I can reward him for that, and I've broken the fixation on whatever the "naughty" behavior was.
> 
> But then, I didn't believe in or use "traditional" time-outs with my kids, either. Time-outs in our house were, "Go to your room, and when you are calm enough that we can talk about this, come down and find me." Seemed to work well for my "human animals" too.


Hi Karen. I'm not quite sure what you find wrong with time outs. It's simply giving not only the dog , but you , a chance to chill. Let's face it if a dog gets unruly for some reason , there is nothing wrong with putting him in his expen or crate for a brief minute. This is by definition punishment, but it is constructive and informative if done properly and is very low on the aversive scale. Going to our rooms as kids was a time out and it is by definition , punishment. (negative punishment.)


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## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

Right on, Dave! Also, if it's one behavior you want to change, and you see them doing it over and over, diverting their attention just doesn't work. They go back to it because they don't know what they did. In time out they can relate the behavior to the consequence, if they are caught in the act several times. I don't think it's cruel in any way unless they are left too long.In that case it doesn't work because they don't remember what they did.No more than 5 minutes.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

SOPHIES-MOM said:


> Right on, Dave! Also, if it's one behavior you want to change, and you see them doing it over and over, diverting their attention just doesn't work. They go back to it because they don't know what they did. In time out they can relate the behavior to the consequence, if they are caught in the act several times. I don't think it's cruel in any way unless they are left too long.In that case it doesn't work because they don't remember what they did.No more than 5 minutes.


Exactly.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Hi Karen. I'm not quite sure what you find wrong with time outs. It's simply giving not only the dog , but you , a chance to chill. Let's face it if a dog gets unruly for some reason , there is nothing wrong with putting him in his expen or crate for a brief minute. This is by definition punishment, but it is constructive and informative if done properly and is very low on the aversive scale. Going to our rooms as kids was a time out and it is by definition , punishment. (negative punishment.)


First, MANY times here we've seen posts about people putting a dog in "time out" for an extended period of time. I KNOW that's not what you are suggesting, but that's what often happens.

I also see it being used for inappropriate purposes. I've said right along that it can be appropriate to settle down an over-wound puppy (or child). I DON'T think it is an appropriate method for potty training, and that has come up several times recently too. IMO puppies don't need punishment of any kind for potty issues. They need close supervision and encouragement to develop good habits.

Second, my experience with my kids and those of many families I have worked with is that traditional "punishment" type time outs, (Go to your room for XX minutes) just doesn't work very well for kids either. IF they work at all, it's because it gives a bit of cool-down period AND THEN the parent works to teach the child a better or different way to respond when faced with the same problem.

Hmmm. That sounds like what I wrote at the end of the last paragraph... Whether that are kids or puppies, "They need close supervision and encouragement to develop good habits."


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

krandall said:


> First, MANY times here we've seen posts about people putting a dog in "time out" for an extended period of time. I KNOW that's not what you are suggesting, but that's what often happens.
> 
> I also see it being used for inappropriate purposes. I've said right along that it can be appropriate to settle down an over-wound puppy (or child). I DON'T think it is an appropriate method for potty training, and that has come up several times recently too. IMO puppies don't need punishment of any kind for potty issues. They need close supervision and encouragement to develop good habits.
> 
> ...


yeah Karen , I', m certainly not talking about timeouts for housetraining issues. Here is an example of a proper time out case. Here's a person's question to Jean Donaldson and her answer....
Q: Play biting or teaching bite inhibition to a puppy - some say ignore play biting and walk away, others shout

"Ouch" and then continue giving pup attention - what do you think works best, as books seem to vary so much on what

to do?
Reply:
Although there are some puppies for whom expression of pain is sufficient, many, many find this actually

stimulating or don't read it as well. Therefore, I usually advise "ouch" followed up by time-out penalty (thirty

seconds in crate or other penalty box or everyone in room abandons puppy). This gives owner more legwork (and so is

a compliance bug sometimes) but has a terrific success rate. The consequence must be sufficiently potent.

The most appropriate human intervention is the use of "negative punishment," in which the dog's behavior makes a

good thing go away. In this case, the most appropriate negative punishment is a time-out. Used in conjunction with

a "no-reward marker" (NRM) or "punishment" marker, this works best for bullying behavior.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

My girl and my lhasa both try the digging thing...I always say 'no digging' its our word. Yogi does not do it he has his own problems. I do think they are nesting.

Karen, yes as parents often when are children are small we really do need Mommy time outs!!!! The "Conversation" when I was growing up my grandparents used the "Interview" I was so scared of the interview, they would have me wait outside of the study door for a time and those always were the worst five minutes of my young life!!!! They never did anything really so bad to me. It was the waiting and the unknown. To make matters worse we had a live in maid who would with out fail say to me "Now you don't want be late to the interview". It was like everyone knew!!! So don't be suprised if your children tell you someday how they disliked the "Conversation"


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

That's a better scenario for the use of time-out than, I think, ANY that I've seen on this board, certainly in this discussion. And she's talking about 30 seconds. I think the shortest time I've seen mentioned by someone using it is 5 minutes. I just don't like it, and CERTAINLY not until other methods have been tried first. 

Also, the original question has a bit of a problem with it too. OF COURSE if all you do is say "ouch" and continue to play with (i.e. rile up) the puppy, the "ouch" is unlikely to make much of an impression. But for lots and LOTS of puppies, there's a middle of the road... Say "ouch", stop playing and turn away. 

I'm sure there are some that will not settle down and will keep biting, but I bet that very few Havs are among them. For the ones who won't settle down, then we get into the territory where I've said all along that I think an ex-pen is appropriate... a safe place (in this case for both the puppy AND the humans) for the puppy to unwind to the point that it can listen and be redirected.

Maybe we're talking semantics here, but "Time Out" means something very specific to me in terms of children, and from the way I've seen some people using it, it means the same thing to them. This "formal" "Time Out" is not, IMO, a great tool for changing the behavior of children, and I'm not convinced that it's a much better choice for puppies. If you are talking about a calm-down period, or even a 30 second separation UNDER VERY SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES, I can buy it a whole lot better. But then I'm not sure it qualifies as what I would call a "Time Out".


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> My girl and my lhasa both try the digging thing...I always say 'no digging' its our word. Yogi does not do it he has his own problems. I do think they are nesting.
> 
> Karen, yes as parents often when are children are small we really do need Mommy time outs!!!! The "Conversation" when I was growing up my grandparents used the "Interview" I was so scared of the interview, they would have me wait outside of the study door for a time and those always were the worst five minutes of my young life!!!! They never did anything really so bad to me. It was the waiting and the unknown. To make matters worse we had a live in maid who would with out fail say to me "Now you don't want be late to the interview". It was like everyone knew!!! So don't be suprised if your children tell you someday how they disliked the "Conversation"


Actually, we've talked about it (we still talk a lot!) and they think it was a good way to handle things, They were often shocked by the seemingly arbitrary "consequences" they saw meted out at friends' houses. I'm sure I didn't always get it right... particularly when I was arbitrating a problem between the two of them. But I did try REALLY hard to hear them and understand their point of view, then come to a solution that worked for all of us.


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## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

OK, I am one of the ones who was instructed by my breeder to use time outs for 30 minutes to an hour for potty-training. Through this forum, I got an ex pen and revised my ways and have seen much better success. I was wondering, however, if timeouts were something to be done because there are times that separating the dog briefly seems to help. For instance, while reading this article, my dog was just pulling and pulling on my son's sleeve and jumping on him. After repeated no's and attempts at distraction, we put him in his crate for about a minute or two, just let him out and have a well-behaved dog again.

I use and fully believe in time outs for my children as an appropriate disciplinary measure. There are some kids where distraction works, and some who are more strong willed. When things get physical and they start hitting, time outs to think about what they did are a must. one minute for each year of age is what we use, but I mainly look for the attitude adjustment.

I do not however use their room for the same reason people cite not using the crate. I don't want their room to be seen as punishment or the punishment to be seen as fun. I make them sit at the bottom of the stairs in the time-out spot...the most boring place in the house. Supernanny suggests the same thing.

I have had a behavior issue of my dog jumping up on my toddler. This is mostly when he has food, and he tries to knock out of his hand. But he has even humped my child for dominance. I spoke to a dog trainer about this that uses positive reinforcement, and when we start classes next month, we will try to work on it, but this is a hard one. If he gets too crazy, I will put him in his ex pen just so my son can eat his food. I have tried to say down and reward with a good boy. I was advised not to use treats for this. Would a short one minute timeout also be a good deterrent? I'd like to nip this in the bud while he's young.

Oh, and he totally does the couch digging thing on my leather couch. I think he must smell crumbs in between the cushions or something. My Lhasa used to do this to "fluff" his spot.


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