# Saddle or silvering gene?



## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

Curious about what is going on! Sasha's muzzle looks black at the moment, but when I part the hair I see that all the roots are some kind of light color (not sure if it's silver or cream)! Her cute face will clearly become lighter ...but what do you think..is this silvering or saddle gene? Is it even possible to tell at this point? How do you tell the difference between silvering and saddle gene? 
The rest of the black coat on her body is black all the way down to the roots. 
Can't wait to see what she is up to :biggrin1:. Fedja never changed a bit so I'm really excited to see all the color changes in real, and not only from the stories lol.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

i think she is going to be black&silver and that's veery pretty. But here is very good link for hava colors

http://www.havanesecolors.com/rainbow.html

Roki changed a lot, but now starting to regain the intensity of red sable. Her2 are some pix.


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

Hej Marina, your Roki is beautiful!!! His coat looks great! Nice grooming 
I'm familiar with the site, and Sasha will color wise probably be black/silver/cream (or some sort of silver throughout which I find beautiful btw...depending on how much copies of the silvering gene she caries..one or double), but I was more curious about the gene that is at play here. How to tell the difference between silvering and saddle gene. From the site:
SADDLE - Some Havanese carry a SADDLE gene. This is usually a puppy born black with tan/silver points, where the coat colour starts fading from the front towards the back, stopping around the shoulder area, leaving the front, face, head and neck lighter and the shoulders, back and rear darker. Similar in appearance to the pattern on a Yorkshire or Silky Terrier.
This sound exactly like what I see happening with Sasha. 
Silvering would take place on the whole body if I understand it correctly. But does that happen all over the body from the early age on or goes the same route as saddle....first head etc, and later on down the body? I just don't understand how one tells which gene is at play?


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

Here is another link with a lot of pictures. You have some pix od saddle havanese, but I don't think that sasha is going that way!

http://www.felici-animali.be/PdC_en_colours.htm

I cannot wait to see her at six months of age!


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

Me too! Familiar with that one as well lol (Dutch version available to us, yeah), but thank you. Difficult to find a new information site that a die-hard havanese fans don't know about lol ;-).

BTW: Look at Jamaica at the bottom of the page http://www.havanesecolors.com/colours12.html . What a beauty! I wouldn't mind for Sasha to end up silver like that lol.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

Yes, we are completely crazy people, special breed of dog owners! Completely crazy about our furbabies! I have like 150 havanese sites favourites on my laptop!

It is not the theme but it is cute saying. I found it last night: "All angels were busy, so they sent me a havanese!"


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

If I'm correct this would be a good example of hav with a saddle gene. Meet Rico . I'm totally in love with this guy :biggrin1: (let Fedja not hear me say this lol).
His page http://www.szafi.hu/domoszloi/havanese/kk-Havanese-Rico-a-uk.html


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

rokipiki said:


> Yes, we are completely crazy people, special breed of dog owners! Completely crazy about our furbabies! I have like 150 havanese sites favourites on my laptop!


Wow, you ARE crazy ound:.



rokipiki said:


> It is not the theme but it is cute saying. I found it last night: "All angels were busy, so they sent me a havanese!"


Nothing to add :biggrin1:.


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

I have no idea about the silvering or saddle gene, but I see that Sasha is in a bike basket, how did that go? I have one for Timmy, but although it's a mild winter here it's still to cold for a bike ride. I hope he likes it since it will be fun to take him out plus it will save me some gas if I can bike ride with him for my errands. My kids told me I better not ride around with Timmy on my bike since I'll look crazy, gotta love kids.


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

She is doing great with the basket. Just do it! Fedja was a year old when I took him for his first bike ride, and he got used to it in minutes. He soon learned that basket means fun . We then usually go to the beach or things like that. Put Timmy in the basket for just a short trip to a playing field. He will love it in no time!
It's cold for Sasha to go far away at the moment, so I just take her to a playing field around the corner. She already knows we're going to play when she sees the bike.


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

rokipiki said:


> "All angels were busy, so they sent me a havanese!"


Actually I do have something to add...we should make this our forums motto :biggrin1:.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

El Bueno Habanero said:


> If I'm correct this would be a good example of hav with a saddle gene. Meet Rico . I'm totally in love with this guy :biggrin1: (let Fedja not hear me say this lol).
> His page http://www.szafi.hu/domoszloi/havanese/kk-Havanese-Rico-a-uk.html


Yes, Rico is adorable! Roki's dad comes from the same kennel (Christas Jumpy Clown - Budapest))

http://www.christasjumpyclown.com/

Roki's gradma is Kahlua and if you go to "Champions" find Roki's grandad Heady Harry. His colors might interest you as well as Emilio's.
By the way, Lara in "champions" is Roki's auntie (his fathers littermate)


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I just noticed the other day that under Maddies legs going up them she is turning a bit silver. Its really pretty. I'll let someone else chime in about the different gens because I don't get it. 
From her picture I think Sasha looks like she will have a tan mussel. Maddie has a very light tan compared to both your Havanese. Sometimes I think of it as cream.


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

rokipiki said:


> Yes, Rico is adorable! Roki's dad comes from the same kennel (Christas Jumpy Clown - Budapest))


Now that you mentioned different lineages I checked Rico's and Sasha's. When going back for 5 generations they share the same grandfather Ilkley Moor Prince Charming...and one other dog Budavári Fekete Titi. How can I find your Roki?


Suzi said:


> I'll let someone else chime in about the different gens because I don't get it.
> From her picture I think Sasha looks like she will have a tan mussel. Maddie has a very light tan compared to both your Havanese. Sometimes I think of it as cream.


Neither do I lol, and I love to learn! It's all so interesting.
Maddie's cream points are gorgeous! I think that Sasha's whole face will turn light, because all the hairs on her muzzle down to the roots are already light colored.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

If they are going to silver, it starts early. Look a Twinkle's and Brio's pages on our website. Twinkle was born black with white, but it silvered quickly. Brio is silvering too, but it looks like his won't be quite as light silver as Twinkle. Brio was also born black with white.


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

Tom King said:


> If they are going to silver, it starts early. Look a Twinkle's and Brio's pages on our website. Twinkle was born black with white, but it silvered quickly. Brio is silvering too, but it looks like his won't be quite as light silver as Twinkle. Brio was also born black with white.


Thnx Tom. Twinkle is so stunning, and her color change is absolutely beautiful! I have looked at her page many times . Her expression also reminds me very much of my Fedja . 
I understand that silvering starts early, but does it start to happen on all parts of the coat at once or only in certain places like muzzle for example and then with time goes further down the coat? And do the whole strand of hair has to lighten or only new roots? 
What would you say is the difference between silvering and saddle then? I'm really puzzled about these two genes. Hope someone can help me understand the two better . How would you differentiate early on between this two if that's even possible?


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I don't know anything about the saddling gene. I'm pretty sure Keeper has it, as well as silvering. His back was dark brown for the first couple of years, but turned dark silver, and the silvering faded from there front and back and down to really light.

The silvering starts all over, and even comes out in bands on each hair, gradually getting lighter until about age 1, and then darkens after that stage to its final color. It seems like it lightens earliest on the face, starting around the eyes.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

El Bueno Habanero said:


> Thnx Tom. Twinkle is so stunning, and her color change is absolutely beautiful! I have looked at her page many times . Her expression also reminds me very much of my Fedja .
> I understand that silvering starts early, but does it start to happen on all parts of the coat at once or only in certain places like muzzle for example and then with time goes further down the coat? And do the whole strand of hair has to lighten or only new roots?
> What would you say is the difference between silvering and saddle then? I'm really puzzled about these two genes. Hope someone can help me understand the two better . How would you differentiate early on between this two if that's even possible?


PM Geri, in case she hasn't seen this thread. Milo must have the saddle gene. (I haven't heard of it before either) His coloring is just like a Yorkie... he's BEAUTIFUL!!!


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

Tom King said:


> The silvering starts all over, and even comes out in bands on each hair, gradually getting lighter until about age 1, and then darkens after that stage to its final color. It seems like it lightens earliest on the face, starting around the eyes.


Thanks for your explanation Tom. Sasha's clearing did start around her eyes, but you say that the silvering starts all over, and she is not silvering anywhere else, so I guess she isn't silvering.



krandall said:


> PM Geri, in case she hasn't seen this thread. Milo must have the saddle gene. (I haven't heard of it before either) His coloring is just like a Yorkie... he's BEAUTIFUL!!!


Thnx for the tip Karen. Just checked the picture of Milo on Geri's user page, and I'm 100% sure you are right! Will ask her if she will share some of his puppy pictures here . And yes, he is very beautiful!


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

El Bueno Habanero said:


> Now that you mentioned different lineages I checked Rico's and Sasha's. When going back for 5 generations they share the same grandfather Ilkley Moor Prince Charming...and one other dog Budavári Fekete Titi. How can I find your Roki?
> 
> Neither do I lol, and I love to learn! It's all so interesting.
> Maddie's cream points are gorgeous! I think that Sasha's whole face will turn light, because all the hairs on her muzzle down to the roots are already light colored.


Titi is 16 years old an she is Christa's first havanese. You can see her on her kennel page. Roki has Titi in his lineage as well (from his father's side). Yo can find Roki's parents pedigrees on Compania Vivaz Kennel web page (that's his breeder) His mother is Winsome Doggies Bonita and his father Christa's Jumpy Clown Lewi (Rocky sr.). He is from F litter. Ha, ha that fat brown little ass!

http://www.compania-vivaz.com/


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

Cute, cuteee...I can see why you choose him .


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

As a matter of fact, the one who matched me with Roki was the breeder. I wanted a girl, but in that litter only boys were available. He sent me a photo on 13th Jan. and called me immediately saying that he has a perfect dog for me. When I saw the picture, I knew that's my boy. Love at first sight!I started chosing name. The list was long, but i liked his fathers name Rocky. I called breeder and asked if he minds if I give him that name and he told me that day ago he gave him that name and sent documents to Kennel Club. 
This is the famous 13 th January pix


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Here's two pictures of my Yogi one when he was starting the changing process and after, today he is mix is both black hairs and silver in the white, his mustache is a mix of of the colors also.


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

Your Yogi is beautiful! I like these 'silver' havs very much!


Tom King said:


> The silvering starts all over, and even comes out in bands on each hair, gradually getting lighter until about age 1, and then darkens after that stage to its final color.


Yogi is a good example of what you have said Tom about getting darker again after the first stage of silvering.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yogi is gorgeous, Robbie!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I did miss this thread. I've never heard of the saddle gene before. Milo has essentially remained the same color on most of his body (not his face) all his life, and he'll be five on the 23rd. He's a tricolor Irish pied. I'll find some photos and post them here.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I don't have Milo's puppy pictures on this computer. I'll try to load them later from the other computer. In the meanwhile, here is a collage in which you can see some stages of Milo's life. I also have a few other shots I can add in another post. You'll probably have to increase the size to see it better.


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

Nice collage thnx for sharing Geri! Good looking boy you have there :hug:. What was the color of his face in his puppy days? On some pictures he clearly has saddle on his back, especially on the second from the right, on the top of your collage...and the forth pic down the right side of the frame. But now you got me confused because you said he didn't change ...I don't see black saddle on his back anymore in the two pictures on the bottom of the collage...has the black saddle disappeared there or is it lighting/camera/my monitor issue that makes it look that way?
Can't wait to see his puppy pictures  
Saddle is described on the well known havanese colors website. It sounds like everyone has missed it )).


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