# Things you wish you knew before getting your havanese.



## Nirzhar Kar (Dec 24, 2016)

What are some things you learned throughout the years that you wish you knew when you got your havanese? Could be any general things like temperament/personality To anything with training or raising them. Basicallly tips for the new owner or people thinking about getting a havanese.


----------



## Annabellam (Nov 2, 2015)

I previously did not have a Havanese. What i discovered over time that they can be overly dependent sometimes. They are people oriented and do not like to be left alone for long periods of time. I love how Sammy will follow me around and how it always wants to lie on my laps. He's great with everyone but can be a bit conservative with strangers. I would love to hear of other people's experiences.


----------



## boomana (Jul 9, 2015)

Crate train immediately, and practice leaving your dog alone for short periods, starting with a couple minutes, from Day 1.
Also start brushing and combing your dog from the first day whether they need it or not. Not breed specific, but a tip I wish I remembered a little more often: if you use commercial poo bags on walks, get them open BEFORE you leave the house.....especially if it's dark....or raining...or you're in a hurry....or if you have more than one dog with you, barking, while you take friggen forever to get one open when they're ready to move on, and you end up dropping your phone you were using as a flashlight in the poo, and still can't get the stupid bag open............ just sayin'


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

boomana said:


> Crate train immediately, and practice leaving your dog alone for short periods, starting with a couple minutes, from Day 1.
> Also start brushing and combing your dog from the first day whether they need it or not. Not breed specific, but a tip I wish I remembered a little more often: if you use commercial poo bags on walks, get them open BEFORE you leave the house.....especially if it's dark....or raining...or you're in a hurry....or if you have more than one dog with you, barking, while you take friggen forever to get one open when they're ready to move on, and you end up dropping your phone you were using as a flashlight in the poo, and still can't get the stupid bag open............ just sayin'


ound: This definitely sounds like experience talking!!!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I think I was pretty prepared when I got Kodi. But the one thing I would have done differently (and HAVE with my girls) would have been to foster more independence. Not that I don't want a love bug of a dog... I adore that about him. But I inadvertently allowed him to become a demand barker, which can be annoying. I also "helped" him too often, and taught him not to try for himself. For instance, he won't jump up on the bed if we are with home, even though we KNOW he can and does when he's playing. Another example is, if a toy slides under a piece of furniture, the girls will try REALLY HARD to get it out on their own, often succeeding. Kodi just stands there and barks, expecting me to fish it out for him. It's my fault, because as my "first born", I spoiled him rotten... every wish was my command. He never learned frustration tolerance or had to problem solve for himself. (Other than in a training setting)


----------



## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Momi and I have talked about 'what we wish we knew before Ricky came to live with us.' The most important thing is, we had no idea how dependent WE would become on him and how WE suffer from separation anxiety when he is not with us.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## Cassandra (Dec 29, 2015)

One thing I knew from my research, but didn't truly "know" is that Havanese were bred to be companion dogs and that is what they want to be. You can do various things to avoid problems like separation anxiety ( lots of good tips on the forum) but deep down, they want to be with their humans. I had Shelties and Golden retrievers and my family has had generations of dachshunds as well as beagles but none had anything like this "companionship" goal of a Havanese.

I wouldn't describe it as "needy" but a deep desire to be around you, which I didn't encounter in other breeds, who all liked their people, but went off more frequently to do their dog things.

The other surprise was grooming..again, my research told me Havanese needed lots of grooming, but had no idea that this really requires daily combing, even with short cut, to avoid those little mats from growing. It is getting a liitle better but if I don't keep at it, they sneak back. On the other hand, no shedding compared to my shelties and golden.

If you are never home or work 12 hours a day somewhere else, even with a dog walker etc, this is not the best breed. I worked long hours with other dogs, with kids or housekeeper or dog walker to breakup the dogs' daytimes, and never worried but I can not imagine Cassie thriving with that kind of life.


----------



## Tweety (Jan 3, 2017)

I don't have anything to add. But considering I am couple of months away from getting one, this is so useful for me. Thanks to OP and all posters


----------



## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I wish I knew about titer testing before I got my guys. I learned about it early on but I wish I knew earlier because my guys got some unnecessary vaccines....


----------



## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

I knew they were smart before I got the pup. But they are REALLY smart, which to me, translated to more difficult to potty train, and harder to train with tricks. It's more like my Ollie trained me, on which treats he would work for. To me smart dogs have more personality, which I like. He is independent around the house, but out and about he is a true velcro dog, and would prefer to be with me all the time if he can, but not in my lap, just near enough to keep an eye on me.

Yes, separation anxiety can be an issue, but I do have another dog, so he isn't alone. when he comes to school with me, he does better with another heart beat, if I have a meeting, I will leave him in a classroom (with students), or with a colleague in my hallway. He is still not happy, but if I leave him ALL alone, then he becomes incontinent and is VERY upset when I return, about 30 minutes is his max. as a pup it was like 2 minutes, and he would vomit as well.

I will always have a havanese in my life, and yes, I am more attached to my half hav than he is to me, pretty sure about that.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lfung5 said:


> I wish I knew about titer testing before I got my guys. I learned about it early on but I wish I knew earlier because my guys got some unnecessary vaccines....


yes, yes, YES!!! This is a vaccine sensitive breed. Even if they "seem fine" when they get their shots, too many and you can run into problems with allergies and auto-immune problems down the line. Follow Jean Dodd's vaccine protocol FOR SURE!!!


----------



## boomana (Jul 9, 2015)

krandall said:


> ound: This definitely sounds like experience talking!!!


You think I would learn after the first or tenth time. 

Karen, if I didn't know you were talking about Kodi, I swear you were writing out my Watson's story. Not only does he bark to get toys from under tables he can easily walk under, he lets Lola have his toys and bully sticks then barks at me to get them back. Poor boy. I don't give in, but he never stops trying.

Titers, yes! And brush teeth.


----------



## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> yes, yes, YES!!! This is a vaccine sensitive breed. Even if they "seem fine" when they get their shots, too many and you can run into problems with allergies and auto-immune problems down the line. Follow Jean Dodd's vaccine protocol FOR SURE!!!


Can you direct me to some independent scientific research on this subject, please. I keep hearing this conclusion, but the opinions are anecdotal from what I have seen. Call me a person who is skeptical about unsubstantiated claims. Jean Dodds is not the only opinion on this matter. She is the one who asked the public to pay her past due legitimate taxes.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## Maistjarna (Oct 15, 2016)

Warning: very long!
Short version: Do not free feed.
If you feed kibble brush teeth, I sugest you feed raw food (in that case you don't need to brush teeth).


A lot of things that I wish I knew before have already been said (grooming, not spoiling...) but I would like to add, rhat if you plan on traveling (1 day trips +) I do not suggest free feeding. When we got our little girl we free feed her kibble and every time we went somewhere we took the food along and offerd it to her many times, but she would just eat like 1 or 2 kibbles. After a couple of months we stoped free feeding her.
I agree with brushing teeth, even thouh they are shiny white when they are puppies.
When we got our girl they (people in general) said, we should feed her kibble, because it helps clean teeth, so that is what we did (but we didn't clean/brush her teeth).
Then after about a year we were at a pet store, and a person there said it's better for dogs to eat raw food, so then fe feed her half BARF and half kibble (bad idea! Well it didn't hurt her, but it could have upset her stomac).
At this point she was 1 year and 3 months old and we had her on a diet like that for 1,5 months. After that we moved to only BARF for 1,5 months, late september when she was spayed. She didn't have a good apatite (not to suprising) so we feed her boiled chicken and she LOVED it. (Oh, I forgot to mention her teeth-they were getting worse and worse, the back teeth being almost completeley yellow at this point.) Then after she was done racovering from her spay (after 4 days) we decided not to boil the chicken, but just give it to her raw. And that is what she eats now-raw chichen breast, raw chicken wing, liver and hart (slightly cooked, because she won't eat it raw), tripe, eggs, tuna... She has been eating this food for a little over 3 months and her teeth are MUCH better (i thought I was going to have to taje her to the vet to clean them, but bones work just as well (ok, they need a little more time, but they work)). I bet that in another 3 months her teeth will be completely white.

Sorry for my spelling misataces.

Poslano z mojega SM-G800F z uporabo Tapatalk


----------



## Nirzhar Kar (Dec 24, 2016)

krandall said:


> I think I was pretty prepared when I got Kodi. But the one thing I would have done differently (and HAVE with my girls) would have been to foster more independence. Not that I don't want a love bug of a dog... I adore that about him. But I inadvertently allowed him to become a demand barker, which can be annoying. I also "helped" him too often, and taught him not to try for himself. For instance, he won't jump up on the bed if we are with home, even though we KNOW he can and does when he's playing. Another example is, if a toy slides under a piece of furniture, the girls will try REALLY HARD to get it out on their own, often succeeding. Kodi just stands there and barks, expecting me to fish it out for him. It's my fault, because as my "first born", I spoiled him rotten... every wish was my command. He never learned frustration tolerance or had to problem solve for himself. (Other than in a training setting)


So how exactly did you do things differently with the later ones. Did you ignore him when he barked?


----------



## Nirzhar Kar (Dec 24, 2016)

lfung5 said:


> I wish I knew about titer testing before I got my guys. I learned about it early on but I wish I knew earlier because my guys got some unnecessary vaccines....


Can you elaborate on this? What exactly is this?


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Can you direct me to some independent scientific research on this subject, please. I keep hearing this conclusion, but the opinions are anecdotal from what I have seen. Call me a person who is skeptical about unsubstantiated claims. Jean Dodds is not the only opinion on this matter. She is the one who asked the public to pay her past due legitimate taxes.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Most vets that I know acknowledge that this is a vaccine sensitive breed. (and far from the only one) I'm not a vet, so I'm not sure where their info is coming from. I know there are other vets who have studied this also. And I DON'T think that Jean Dodds is the one who put Havanese in that group, she is just the one who has published a vaccine protocol that will protect animals without over-vaccination. I BELIEVE (not sure on this, speaking from memory) that she originally developed this protocol for Weimeraners.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Maistjarna said:


> Warning: very long!
> Short version: Do not free feed.
> If you feed kibble brush teeth, I sugest you feed raw food (in that case you don't need to brush teeth).
> 
> ...


Well, first of all, ALL dogs should have their teeth brushed regularly, no matter WHAT they are eating. You are correct that kibble does not help, and isn't a great food source, but even on a raw diet, dogs need to have their teeth brushed regularly with an enzymatic tooth paste. Otherwise, you re in for more frequent, expensive professional cleanings or all kinds of health problems from bad teeth down the road. (and this is especially true with toy breeds)

A raw diet can be a very healthy option. HOWEVER, just feeding random meat is not a balanced diet. Dogs are NOT obligate carnivores as cats are. (and even they, if fed raw would need to eat the WHOLE animal, not just bits and pieces) They are opportunistic scavengers who need a lot of protein in their diets. In best circumstances, that protein comes from good quality meat, but they are amazingly adaptable. People who feed a raw diet need to EITHER purchase a commercial raw food that it nutritionally balanced, OR they need to become extremely well educated in terms of what goes into a species appropriate raw diet, and make sure that their dog is getting ALL the nutrients they need. You can feed a dog poorly (even though they might like it a lot and eat it with gusto!) for years without even realizing what you are doing to the underlying health of the dog. By the time you really that things are going wrong, it can be too late to completely correct them. This is ESPECIALLY true for dogs in their first couple of years, while they are still growing.

PLEASE learn more about feeding a complete, balanced, SPECIES APPROPRIATE raw diet before you do long-term harm to your dog, no matter how nice and white her teeth might look.


----------



## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> Most vets that I know acknowledge that this is a vaccine sensitive breed. (and far from the only one) I'm not a vet, so I'm not sure where their info is coming from. I know there are other vets who have studied this also. And I DON'T think that Jean Dodds is the one who put Havanese in that group, she is just the one who has published a vaccine protocol that will protect animals without over-vaccination. I BELIEVE (not sure on this, speaking from memory) that she originally developed this protocol for Weimeraners.


Thanks Karen. Out of curiosity, I have Googled information abut this controversy. After a brief search I have come up with the following.

_A Purdue University vet school study (by Moore et al), published in 2005 in the AVMA Journal and widely-cited elsewhere (see AAHA Guidelines p. 22), tracked vaccine reactions occurring within 72 hours of vaccination for 1.2 million dogs vaccinated at 360 veterinary hospitals. It showed that small breed dogs receiving multiple vaccines per office visit were at greatest risk of a vaccine reaction. The report recommends: these factors should be considered in risk assessment and risk communication with clients regarding vaccination.

"The VAAE [reaction] rate decreased significantly as body weight increased. Risk was 27% to 38% greater for neutered versus sexually intact dogs and 35% to 64% greater for dogs approximately 1 to 3 years old versus 2 to 9 months old. The risk of a VAAE significantly increased as the number of vaccine doses administered per office visit increased; each additional vaccine significantly increased risk of an adverse event by 27% in dogs ? 10 kg (22 lb) and 12% in dogs > 10 kg." (Find the article: JAVMA, Vol 227, No. 7, October 1, 2005).

Note too: In the WSASA Guidelines Q & A: Are certain vaccines or combinations of vaccines more likely to cause adverse reactions than others? Yes. Although the development of an adverse reaction is often dependent on the genetics of the animal (e.g. small breed dogs or families of dogs), certain vaccines have a higher likelihood of producing adverse reactions, especially reactions caused by Type I hypersensitivity. For example, bacterins (killed bacterial vaccines), such as Leptospira, Bordetella, Borrelia (Lyme) and Chlamydophila (Chlamydia) are more likely to cause these adverse reactions than MLV viral vaccines.

Breeds Most at Risk Listed in Order (for breeds with more than 5000 dogs studied)

Dachshund (by far the most reactive)
Pug
Boston Terrier
Miniature Pinscher
Chihuahua
Maltese
Miniature Schnauzer
Jack Russell Terrier
Toy Poodle
Yorkshire
Terrier
Boxer
Pomeranian
Pekingese
Shih Tzu
English Bulldog
Lhasa Apso
Weimaraner
Beagle
Bichon Frise
American Eskimo Dog
American Cocker Spaniel
Shetland Sheepdog
Shar Pei
Miniature Poodle
Golden Retriever
Basset Hound
Welsh Corgi
Siberian Husky
Great Dane
West Highland White Terrier
Labrador Retriever
Doberman Pinscher
American Pit Bull Terrier
Akita
Mixed
Australian Shepherd
Dalmatian
Australian Cattle Dog
Border Collie
Collie
Chow Chow
German Shepherd Dog
Rottweiler_

Havanese are not included, probably because they didn't meet the 5000 sample threshold in 2005. However, the Bichon, the Havanese first cousin, is included and is in the middle of the high risk group. So I think there may be some justification for extrapolating to the Havanese breed on that basis.

What the study does conclude is that OVER VACCINATION can cause health risks, but I don't see any definition of "over vaccination." I don't have any opinion on this subject and I certainly have no technical background, I just want what is best for my Ricky. I have friends locally who are dead set against any vaccinations for their dogs, including rabies which is currently mandated in California. They believe in homeopathic solutions. But I have another friend who is an M.D. and has a 13 1/2 y.o. Havanese. He tells me that there is only one institution in the US that does titers and that is the University of Kansas. The tests are expensive and they need to be performed on a regular basis because immunity is not necessarily permanent. So, judicious use of vaccinations subject to titer verification may be the best compromise.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> What the study does conclude is that OVER VACCINATION can cause health risks, but I don't see any definition of "over vaccination." I don't have any opinion on this subject and I certainly have no technical background, I just want what is best for my Ricky. I have friends locally who are dead set against any vaccinations for their dogs, including rabies which is currently mandated in California. They believe in homeopathic solutions. But I have another friend who is an M.D. and has a 13 1/2 y.o. Havanese. He tells me that there is only one institution in the US that does titers and that is the University of Kansas. The tests are expensive and they need to be performed on a regular basis because immunity is not necessarily permanent. So, judicious use of vaccinations subject to titer verification may be the best compromise.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I think NOT vaccinating dogs at all is irresponsible, both for the public (in the case of Rabies) for our own pets and for other people's pets. (in the case of extremely dangerous, extremely contagious, and absolutely preventable diseases like Distemper and Parvo)

The law says we MUST vaccinate for Rabies (except under certain, specific and very limited circumstances) Unfortunately, the law has not caught up with science, and although the scientific evidence is strong that a Rabies vaccine protects the dog for 7 years, all states still require Rabies at least every 3 years. Some, very backward states still require it annually, or did when Kodi was young. Not sure if they've changed in intervening years. Here in MA, it has been a 3 year vaccine (after the 1 year booster) since I first got Kodi.

Our state is among the 18 that also DO allow a waiver for a dog who has shown a serious adverse reaction to the Rabies Vaccine, which Kodi has. When it first happened, my vet told me that she wouldn't recommend vaccinating him again. (he required ER hospitalization after the last one) I STILL struggled with it, when the time came. That means, that even though I am fully convinced that at least for another 4 years, he remains fully protected form the disease, he is NOT protected form the law. It means that if some one SAYS he has bitten them (not that the actually has, only that he is accuse of it) he could be, at best quarantined for a long time, at worst, destroyed that they could check his brain, the only way known to ascertain whether an animal is rabid or not. OTOH, another Rabies vaccine could kill him.

As far as you MD, he is misinformed as far as dogs are concerned. (I have no idea about humans or other animals) I'm not sure where titers go, though I don't think there is only one place to do them, and they are NOT expensive. My dogs (who all received their puppy shots, spread out, never at the same time) are tiered annually for distemper and parvo. It costs me $30 per dog. Vets who are charging more are doing it for their own reasons, because I am SURE that my et's office is not subsidizing this service for clients.

I also do not believe that your MD is up to date on current understanding of antibodies. I have spoken to MANY its and MD's about this, and they AL say the same thing. The problem is actually the reverse. You can have a negative titer, and STILL be protected against the disease. Unless the body has been relatively recently challenged by the disease, the antibodies decrease to a level where they are undetectable. When the body is again challenged y the disease, it quickly mounts a response, bringing the antibody level up to a much higher level.

So a negative titer COULD mean that the dog is no longer protected, (though that is unlikely, except in the case of an animal with an underlying immune system problem) OR it COULD mean that the dog had not come in contact with the disease for long enough that the antibodies can be detected. Because the vets, at this point, don't know FOR SURE which category the dog is in, they tend to err on the side of caution, and recommend revaccination for dogs who don't show a titer.

Dr. Dodds recommends titering every three years, my vet feels safer with annual titers. Since there is NO risk of the titer other than giving up a it more blood (and they have to have titers for tick borne diseases and heart worm in this area annually anyway) I just go with it. It's not that much money, and if it makes HER feel safer that she is caring for my animals well, I'm fine with it. I can tell you with certainty that Kodi still has strong titers at 7 1/2... I have friends with (much) older dogs who still have strong titers.

But I agree COMPLETELY that not vaccinating at all is doing a grave disservice to not only our pets, but all other people's pets as well. It's like the people who decide they aren't going to vaccinate their children, but have them wear foil hats to school instead.


----------



## Cassandra (Dec 29, 2015)

Thanks for the information the Purdue research. It certainly makes sense that small breeds would be more likely to have vaccine reactions, and the relationship of Havanese to Bichons makes sense as well. 

I know that people often have strongly held views on vaccines and don't want to divert this thread into a deeper discussion of the vaccine issue in general, but one step every one should consider with a new Havanese puppy is to space the vaccines rather than do the standard every-thing-one day approach. The same is true with infants. Almost every pediatrician will space infant vaccines if you ask. I have read that the practice of combining all infant vaccines began because of concerns that parents wouldn't return for separate injections...so on a population basis combinations might make sense, but you can opt to space them out. Same is true for puppies..at a minimum, consider spacing rabies from the others.


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

There are a couple of things I wish I knew or understood better before getting a Havanese.

One is I didn't realize how much grooming they needed. I knew they needed grooming and combing, but just thought a monthly trip to the groomer and maybe running a comb through their hair would be enough. I didn't realize how snarly they can get. However, Willow is so much easier to comb now than she was when she was younger. I didn't even know there was something called a puppy coat.

The other thing I wish I had known was how much they LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to shred paper - including toilet paper! > :surprise:


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Thanks Karen. Out of curiosity, I have Googled information abut this controversy. After a brief search I have come up with the following.
> 
> _A Purdue University vet school study (by Moore et al), published in 2005 in the AVMA Journal and widely-cited elsewhere (see AAHA Guidelines p. 22), tracked vaccine reactions occurring within 72 hours of vaccination for 1.2 million dogs vaccinated at 360 veterinary hospitals. It showed that small breed dogs receiving multiple vaccines per office visit were at greatest risk of a vaccine reaction. The report recommends: these factors should be considered in risk assessment and risk communication with clients regarding vaccination.
> 
> ...


here is what Jean Dodds considers over-vaccinating ..."! Over -vaccination can be from such situations as: 1) giving puppies or kittens too many vaccines in a series , and/or vaccinating for non-core vaccines in an area where exposure risk is minimal (e.g. Lyme and leptospirosis , corona virus , ad even influenza vaccines) and/or starting vaccines too young (especially with canine distemper vaccines, all MLV); 2) Giving unnecessary booster vaccinations in well-vaccinated and immunized dogs and cats [certainly not needed annually and not even every three years, as serum vaccine antibody titers can be measured instead for canine distemper and parvovirus, and feline panleukopenia virus; and 3) Requiring kennel cough vaccines for grooming and boarding., when these are not 100% efficacious anyway."

The Havanese falls into two catagories , the small breed catagory and the white dog breed catagory. Potentionally double the trouble.
Her data on breeds prone to vaccine reactions come from the published literature, like the one you mentioned, including her own, plus decades of clinical and research experience and data from soecific breed club national surveys. 
I don't mind you being sceptical as I am also one who relies on science. But I'm not going to sit by when you YET AGAIN bad mouth an innoccent person such as Jean with your remark " Jean Dodds is not the only opinion on this matter. She is the one who asked the public to pay her past due legitimate taxes." 
For anyone who thinks Jean's not for profit Hemopet blood bank for dogs, deliberately tried to avoid taxes ,you are invited to read the story here http://www.havaneseforum.com/10-health-issues-questions/112146-dr-dodds-trouble.html


----------



## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> As far as you MD, he is misinformed as far as dogs are concerned. (I have no idea about humans or other animals) I'm not sure where titers go, though I don't think there is only one place to do them, and they are NOT expensive. ..............I also do not believe that your MD is up to date on current understanding of antibodies. I have spoken to MANY its and MD's about this, and they AL say the same thing. The problem is actually the reverse. You can have a negative titer, and STILL be protected against the disease. Unless the body has been relatively recently challenged by the disease, the antibodies decrease to a level where they are undetectable. When the body is again challenged y the disease, it quickly mounts a response, bringing the antibody level up to a much higher level.
> 
> So a negative titer COULD mean that the dog is no longer protected, (though that is unlikely, except in the case of an animal with an underlying immune system problem) OR it COULD mean that the dog had not come in contact with the disease for long enough that the antibodies can be detected. Because the vets, at this point, don't know FOR SURE which category the dog is in, they tend to err on the side of caution, and recommend revaccination for dogs who don't show a titer.


With regards to where titers are sent, Ricky's Vet also said they are sent to Kansas. This is in the context of a full panel including rabies for dogs traveling to a foreign country, in Ricky's case Mexico. According to the U of K website the cost is $310. Costs for partial panels not including rabies are in the $30 or less range.

My M.D. friend was also speaking in the context of foreign travel. He has taken his Havanese on more than one occasion to EU countries. EU countries evidently require the full panel and I presume is only available at the U of K. I also think the problem is that a EU country considers a negative titer as insufficient for entry. A negative titer is ambiguous in the meaning, I presume. And what is acceptable and exceptable in the USA is not necessarily acceptable and exceptable in other countries. It is also my understanding that in EU countries the titers must be completed within X amount of days before entry, it is not a 'lifetime' exemption.

So I think everyone is in agreement but through my fault, we were not on the same page. This topic deserves a thread of its own.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> With regards to where titers are sent, Ricky's Vet also said they are sent to Kansas. This is in the context of a full panel including rabies for dogs traveling to a foreign country, in Ricky's case Mexico. According to the U of K website the cost is $310. Costs for partial panels not including rabies are in the $30 or less range.
> 
> My M.D. friend was also speaking in the context of foreign travel. He has taken his Havanese on more than one occasion to EU countries. EU countries evidently require the full panel and I presume is only available at the U of K. I also think the problem is that a EU country considers a negative titer as insufficient for entry. A negative titer is ambiguous in the meaning, I presume. And what is acceptable and exceptable in the USA is not necessarily acceptable and exceptable in other countries. It is also my understanding that in EU countries the titers must be completed within X amount of days before entry, it is not a 'lifetime' exemption.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think very few of us are worrying about foreign travel, Well, maybe Canada and Mexico, but few further than that. Canada doesn't require (or accept) any titers, just proof of vaccination. Since Mexico is a LONG way from us, it's unlikely our dogs will travel there with us.  In the US, titers for Rabies are not useful except if the owner wants to know that information. A Rabies titer would not be accepted anywhere. Proof of vaccination within the state required time limit is the only thing that matters. (or in the case of a dog like Kodi, in a state that allows it, a waiver from the vet) I guess that's why few people or vets seen bother with a Rabies titer.


----------



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

I'll try to make this brief. There are many things we wish we'd known, but there are also things we knew . . .

Wish we'd known . . .

1. to touch and comb face and head A LOT from the moment we brought her home - would have made styling her hair easier

2. to start with claw-type hair clips instead of ribbons with bands as we could have worked our way up to bands

3. to keep her on a leash for pottying until exactly where to go was established - we let her off too early, and now she just goes anywhere in the fenced-in yard

4. to introduce her to horses at a young age (she barks like mad at horses on TV - was hard to binge on Seasons 5 and 6 of Game of Thrones over winter break with her barking at every single horse!)

5. to put her food and water in shallow dishes when we first brought her home - she was on goat's milk and kibble when we first brought her home, and we couldn't figure out why she was only lapping up the milk until, TO OUR HORROR, we realized she couldn't REACH the kibble!

6. to get a breakaway collar for her to avoid accidents (and to not have her wear a collar at all unless necessary for some reason)

7. to get a British-style slip lead which is collar and leash all at once for quick trips outside (on the road, at homes without fenced-in yards, etc.)
Rope Leashes - Mendota Products, Inc.

8. to establish a clear signal for when she wants to go outside (she paws at sliding glass door or other door if we are enclosed in a room, but if there's no door, she has no signal)

9. to get the squirrels in log toy right away - recommended by goldanimals/Tux; video of Shama receiving it this Christmas at link below
http://www.havaneseforum.com/41-fun-photo-assignments/116641-christmas-photos.html

10. to take a photo of Shama each month with a little sign saying how many months old she is - below is the photo taken yesterday when she turned 19 months old


----------



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Things we knew . . .

1. to prevent separation anxiety - from the beginning, we ignored her for a bit before leaving then left without saying goodbye, and we ignored for a bit upon return then greeted her in a very low key manner - it's great because now she doesn't fuss when we come/go or when our dog walker comes/goes

2. to take her to several puppy classes and Petco's small breed puppy playtime for socialization purposes (both other dog and human)

3. to keep taking her to obedience and agility classes not only for training but for bonding and fun

4. to establish a default behavior (learned about this in a puppy class) - whenever she wants something, she sits

5. to get her to love the camera from an early age (something about a tasty treat right above the camera makes her look!)

6. to research all of our questions (our breeder, local Havanese Club, vets, groomers, trainers, books, internet, this forum!)


----------



## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Sophie is my first Havanese and I LOVE her to pieces. But my first suggestion like many others is get them used to you being gone from the beginning. I work from home and have never dealt with separation anxiety with any of my dogs so wasn't prepared for it. I made a big problem to now I have to have a sitter here if I'm gone and I rarely go since they are expensive. This problem wouldn't be such an issue if she hadn't gotten IBD which makes her sick when she is stressed. So I haven't been able to fix the problem as quickly as I would have liked.

Which is my second piece of input, I mainly got a Havanese due to reading how healthy they are. Overall they are a healthy breed but I hadn't been so lucky with Sophie. She has IBD and allergies. Having said that though we have been working hard for months with holistic treatments and as of right now she is symptom free! Of her tummy issues she is still itchy but not as much. I have heard of quite a few Havanese with similar health issues. Your chances of having a healthy one are great but I had it in my mind most would be totally fine. 

Grooming is a little more than I envisioned it to be. I do love to groom her but it does take a lot of time. So I clip her down some which helps a lot. I love that they don't shed!

They are super smart! I saw someone mention that theirs were harder to house break and teach tricks to. I have found the opposite with Sophie loves to "work" and learns really fast. She was housebroken in just a few days and has been 100% reliable since. She will be 2 in less than a month. AAHHHH I said it out loud!!!! That happened way too fast. 

The rest is totally wonderful they are adorable, funny precious little dogs. You won't be sorry.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

god to see you back Dee Dee.0


----------



## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Thanks Dave it felt like the pre Christmas orders would never end :surprise:


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Oh Dee Dee it's so good to see a post from you. I'm just thrilled that you finally got a handle on Sophie's health issues. You and Sophie have been in my prayers daily. I can relate how you must feel with Sophie's medical problems after what you went through with your doxie. Welcome back! :drum:


----------



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Nirzhar Kar, how is it going?


----------



## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

Squirrels in log toy is awesome Kosmo favorite.


----------



## Boop (Mar 5, 2017)

Marcia Tallent said:


> Squirrels in log toy is awesome Kosmo favorite.


I recently bought a package of three squirrels without knowing about the tree part! Griffin took them right away but, as is often his modus operandi, he immediately chewed the tail off the first one and is currently working to defluff the tail on squirrel number two. Squirrel number three is waiting for its turn to be abused once one of the first two has to be thrown out.... I will say, he's pretty consistent with how he treats his toys!

What I wish I had known:
1) the level of separation anxiety our particular little guy would have
2) the level of grooming our little guy would require
3) the degree to which he hates being in the car (he's had car sickness since the beginning which, naturally, creates anxiety). This was almost a deal breaker because we spend a lot of time in the car. He's gotten better but with occasional setbacks. It's enough to give us hope.

Regarding the anxiety issues, we have tried the Thunder Shirt, Rescue Remedy, the pheromones, Dramamine & Benadryl. We have tried all these things individually and together (not the Dramamine & Benedryl) but to little effect. We have tried short rides around the block with fun stuff at the other end, we've tried longer rides with fun stuff at the other end... There was very little benefit from any of them. Most of the time, the only thing that would work was the passenger would have to reach back into the crate and Griffin would snuggle up to it. Eventually the hand *might* be removed for short periods of time which we have tried to prolong the time with the hand and substitute a plush toy. We've been having some success with this in addition to using MaxxiCalm instead of RR.

All that said, he's a complete love and I find myself feeling like its Christmas morning every day when he escorts me from the bedroom into the kitchen. How can you beat that?


----------



## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Amigo Griffin, SHRED IT, SHRED IT, SHRED IT! >

su amigo in crime, Ricky Ricardo


----------



## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

I like to hold one squirrel in each hand, squeeze them one after the other, and watch Kosmo run from hand to hand. My daughter got two collie puppies and one gets motion sickness. It is terrible. Her vet told her that people who buy boats and take off from a harbor with a dog on board they don't know is prone to this are the biggest losers of all. I think this is one of those issues a very good breeder of expensive pups could save us from.


----------



## Boop (Mar 5, 2017)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Amigo Griffin, SHRED IT, SHRED IT, SHRED IT! >
> 
> su amigo in crime, Ricky Ricardo


Speaking of shredding... We save cardboard toilet paper rolls for Griff. Sometimes while "sitting there" I'll hand him a roll much to his delight (he takes it from my hand so gently and with great reverence) then the fun begins! I now have cardboard spitballs all over the house! :grin2:


----------



## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*squirrels in the log*



Boop said:


> I recently bought a package of three squirrels without knowing about the tree part! Griffin took them right away but, as is often his modus operandi, he immediately chewed the tail off the first one and is currently working to defluff the tail on squirrel number two. Squirrel number three is waiting for its turn to be abused once one of the first two has to be thrown out.... I will say, he's pretty consistent with how he treats his toys!


Perry's squirrels still have their tails, but have lost their ears and the fluff on the top of their head 

Ears seem to go first - he also has an earless pink monkey (he chews them the I cut them off once they seem to be ragged) and his skineeez raccoon is now missing its ears, nose and feet.


----------



## GlenK (Feb 9, 2016)

I thought Rocky would really love the squirrel log but he only played with it for about two days.
Now has no interest. It's hard to project what he will like or not.


----------



## Jojofergy (Jun 27, 2016)

I wish I knew about the grooming I know ppl tell u they need to be groomed but I didn't fully comprehend how much time it would take and I wish I knew how awesome havanese puppies are I would have gotten one sooner if I'd known lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

I'm happy to hear that the squirrels in a log are favored among many. One tip: you can put anything in those logs and it is still as much fun to pull them all out! (Puts a new twist on an older toy).

Hint: try to have a toy box that does not resemble a trash can in any manner. Tux acts like he can't tell the difference (or maybe he is just faking it.....which would not surprise me in the least). Smart little buggars!


----------



## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*squirrel in a log*



GlenK said:


> I thought Rocky would really love the squirrel log but he only played with it for about two days.
> Now has no interest. It's hard to project what he will like or not.


To be fair, Perry loves his squirrels, but the log is not that interesting - he pulls the squirrels out in about 15 seconds (probably less) and then the fun is the squirrels, not the log (I've ordered a 2nd set of squirrels to see if having more of them in there, harder to get out will make it take longer).


----------



## Cassandra (Dec 29, 2015)

Cassie loves the log as well as the squirrels. After squirrels have been removed, tossed in the air and mauled, she sticks her nose inside the log, runs around tossing it and shaking it with her teeth. I move the log around different places so she has to find it. When I am busy doing something, she will go into my office, find it and scatter squirrels and log around the house.


----------



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Shama likes to wrestle with the log when it attacks her (my hand inside) . . .


----------



## Nirzhar Kar (Dec 24, 2016)

ShamaMama said:


> Nirzhar Kar, how is it going?


hey! currently in the middle of buying a house. right after i do buy, i will start putting in a deposit for a hav!! but trying to get everything set first before making the jump.


----------



## Boop (Mar 5, 2017)

Melissa Brill said:


> Perry's squirrels still have their tails, but have lost their ears and the fluff on the top of their head
> 
> Ears seem to go first - he also has an earless pink monkey (he chews them the I cut them off once they seem to be ragged) and his skineeez raccoon is now missing its ears, nose and feet.


Sounds like me with a chocolate Easter bunny >


----------



## Nepa (Nov 8, 2016)

I wish I knew how much havanese like to eat their poop. I have to creep up to Leo when I think he's pooping on the pee pad and make sure to call his name the moment he has pooped. If I'm doing something else and can't watch him at all times, he will either eat some of it or move it to another area. I love him dearly but this is really gross! 

We've tried pumpkin in his food and products to make his poop not taste good. He eats Fromm's puppy gold with wet can food and we give him probiotics and vitamins so it's not a diet issue. Otherwise, he's a healthy 12.5 lb, almost 7 month old active, happy puppy.


----------



## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Nepa said:


> I wish I knew how much havanese like to eat their poop. I have to creep up to Leo when I think he's pooping on the pee pad and make sure to call his name the moment he has pooped. If I'm doing something else and can't watch him at all times, he will either eat some of it or move it to another area.


This is the way we handle the issue. Ricky is NEVER allowed to poop in the house, - on a pad, or a litter box, or anywhere. We DO NOT have a doggie door. He is never allowed to go outside, for any reason, unless we are "eyes on" with him (we have too many things in our garden that could harm him if he ate them). As soon as he poops outside, we swoop in and pick it up. When he poops outside, we escort him indoors immediately where is rewarded with a cookie ( a slice of dehydrated banana or a frozen blueberry). He has learned to head to the back door when he is finished, for his reward, and he shows no interest in what he has left behind.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Nepa said:


> I wish I knew how much havanese like to eat their poop. I have to creep up to Leo when I think he's pooping on the pee pad and make sure to call his name the moment he has pooped. If I'm doing something else and can't watch him at all times, he will either eat some of it or move it to another area. I love him dearly but this is really gross!
> 
> We've tried pumpkin in his food and products to make his poop not taste good. He eats Fromm's puppy gold with wet can food and we give him probiotics and vitamins so it's not a diet issue. Otherwise, he's a healthy 12.5 lb, almost 7 month old active, happy puppy.


All breeds of dogs can be poop eaters... Or not. I am lucky, none of mine have any interest in eating dog poop. I have many other friends with many breeds (including Havanese) who do eat poop. I just got lucky. But it's not a "Havanese thing".


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> This is the way we handle the issue. Ricky is NEVER allowed to poop in the house, - on a pad, or a litter box, or anywhere. We DO NOT have a doggie door. He is never allowed to go outside, for any reason, unless we are "eyes on" with him (we have too many things in our garden that could harm him if he ate them). As soon as he poops outside, we swoop in and pick it up. When he poops outside, we escort him indoors immediately where is rewarded with a cookie ( a slice of dehydrated banana or a frozen blueberry). He has learned to head to the back door when he is finished, for his reward, and he shows no interest in what he has left behind.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Kodi was supervised at all times, and on leash when pooping for his first several years. I was FANATIC that he was NEVER going to acquire a taste for poop. I'd love to pat myself on the back for my good training, but I just don't think he's a poop eater. I was more laid back about the girls and their poop and they've NEVER had any interested in eating poop. (dog poop, anyway... Turkey poop is a 'nuther story!  ) I have friends that if they are not WITH the dog, on leash, so they can immediately drag the dog away, they will whip around and eat it as fast as it is produced.

Dogs can be disgusting creature!


----------



## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

We have also always "swooped" in to get Shama's poop the moment it's on the ground. (Haven't ever seen her eat poop.) She still doesn't know the joy of a slice of dehydrated banana yet though. We're invited to Ricky's house to try . . .


----------



## Boop (Mar 5, 2017)

We've been fortunate with Griffin. He never showed more than a cursory interest in his poop (hallelujah) but we've always made a point of picking it up immediately and flushing it. No muss, no fuss, no multiple piles of aged poo... And no stinky garbage bin!


----------



## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

*Poop Eater*

I am still training, and accidents happen behind the furniture. I know I am not supposed to react when he puts it in his sweet little mouth, but I shriek. I have made it a game. He does it less now that I am also feeding him Gold with his rabbit. He is also better about going outside, where I can quickly pick up.


----------



## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

When I took Kosmo to the vet and she asked about separation anxiety, I said, "It is pretty bad, but I got a bag to carry him in, so as soon as I find a dog friendly grocery store, I think I will be cured."


----------



## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*poop*



krandall said:


> All breeds of dogs can be poop eaters... Or not. I am lucky, none of mine have any interest in eating dog poop. I have many other friends with many breeds (including Havanese) who do eat poop. I just got lucky. But it's not a "Havanese thing".


As far as I can tell, Perry doesn't eat poop - there seems to be the 'right' amount in the yard whenever I do a scan. But he will (in the past at least) occasionally find a piece and carry it around (yuck!!) which made me worry that he would eat it, but so far nope.


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Nepa said:


> I wish I knew how much havanese like to eat their poop. I have to creep up to Leo when I think he's pooping on the pee pad and make sure to call his name the moment he has pooped. If I'm doing something else and can't watch him at all times, he will either eat some of it or move it to another area. I love him dearly but this is really gross!


Willow eats her's too but only when it's fresh and warm! I have to pounce on it to get it picked up in time.


----------



## Jojofergy (Jun 27, 2016)

I sure hope sprocket never develops a taste for poo lol 
he's pee pad trained since I work I didn't feel it was fair to try to make him hold it till I come home at lunch 
so far he doesn't even notice it after he goes 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jojofergy said:


> I sure hope sprocket never develops a taste for poo lol
> he's pee pad trained since I work I didn't feel it was fair to try to make him hold it till I come home at lunch
> so far he doesn't even notice it after he goes
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh, believe me... They notice it. If he's not eating it, it's because he's not a poop eater.


----------



## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

That is exactly right. Sprocket is no eater of poo.


----------



## Magnadoodle (Apr 19, 2017)

So far, we have had no issues...but, it's only been five weeks since we got her. What I wish I would have anticipated though, is my love for her. She makes me want to quit my part time job to become a full time puppy mom. 

For the last 17 years we have always had a retired greyhound in our home, and I felt very knowledgeable about them. Maggie makes me feel like a beginner all over again.


----------



## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*noticing it*



Jojofergy said:


> so far he doesn't even notice it after he goes
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Perry definitely notices his - in fact, he has to turn around to see it - even though he's not actually done yet (one part pops out, falls to the ground, he turns to sniff it while he's pooping the last small piece out).

Actually, he's a bit preoccupied with all of his bodily functions - when he pees he bends his head around to look (like 'what's this coming out of me')


----------



## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*fresh versus old*



Jackie from Concrete said:


> Willow eats her's too but only when it's fresh and warm! I have to pounce on it to get it picked up in time.


Funny, while Perry doesn't eat his, I have (when we first got him) caught him picking up a piece to carry around - but only when it was older/ dry, definitely not fresh and warm


----------



## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

The first time I met Charley he pulled the zipper down on my sweatshirt! I didn't realize then what a clever clown he'd turn out to be but some things are annoying, e.g., he's a pick pocket and a thief. People know when they enter my house to come with empty pockets especially of tissues or money. Once Charley stole a $20 bill from someone's pocket. It all seemed funny back then but I wish instead of laughing I thought to stop these behaviors when he was a puppy. 

That said, if I had known now what I know about Havanese I would have gotten one many years sooner.


----------



## Hammer (Apr 30, 2017)

What about getting a 2nd dog someday, to help with separation anxiety ? Our last dog had it BAD and we would feel guilty about leaving her. We have a new pup coming and we are already talking about getting a 2nd one. So that they have one another when we are gone.


----------



## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*2nd dog*



Hammer said:


> What about getting a 2nd dog someday, to help with separation anxiety ? Our last dog had it BAD and we would feel guilty about leaving her. We have a new pup coming and we are already talking about getting a 2nd one. So that they have one another when we are gone.


I know that is some times one of the recommendations, we did (or I did) think about it when Perry was showing signs of separation anxiety, but decided to work on him being able to be alone. I know that even if you have two, it's also recommended to get them both to a point where they're ok alone - after all, there might be times when they do need to be separated (vet visits, surgeries, etc.) and if they haven't had a chance to learn how to be ok alone then the problem might be even worse.

If you do decide on a 2nd one, the literature seems to recommend not getting littermates (read up on littermate syndrome). And, for your own sanity, I would probably recommend spacing them at least a few months or, even better, wait til the first is house trained before getting a 2nd.

So, I guess bottom line, my thought is that having a companion for a dog that has to spend time alone is good, but I wouldn't depend on it as a solution to separation anxiety.


----------

