# Bladder Control



## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Needing a little wisdom, please. Is it usual for a 5 month old not to be able to hold her urine more than 2-2 1/2 house during the day? I have pushed her to 3 hours for maybe a day and half and then I am caught off guard and she will have a pee accident after 2 hours. Amount of water or time of day do not seem to play a part. She does hold it for 7.5 to 8 hours during the night. I understand the logic of decrease activity and decrease intake means less output. Just wondering if she should be able to hold it longer. I have tried on and off for the last 3 weeks. Thank you.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Mine, up until recently (he's 2 now) typically went several times during the day. I take him to work with me and he'd need to go out usually mid-morning, then again at lunch, then mid-afternoon and then again at end of day. He used to poop once or twice during that time too (but not he only goes right at 5 PM). He always held it through the night. Since I, myself, go more often than once every 8 hours, I didn't worry about it.

Now, he quite often won't pee after his morning pee until either mid-afternoon or end of day. I still take him out a time or two just for a jail break!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Poop is no problem. She had one poop accident the first week we had her and none since. AND she does a half bark half whine to let me know she has to poop, if I happen to not see her at the door. I try to be vigilant when she is out in the kitchen,but sometimes when I am at the sink, I can't see her at the door, although I try to frequently look around to see where she is. She will not let me know she has to pee in this way...:-(


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## FRANKBULLETT (Mar 31, 2013)

Bandit just turned 6 months. She had the same kind of variations and it seemed like it would change day to day. Just being a puppy and I would not worry about it at all. Holding that long at night is a great accomplishment. She will get it. I assume she was not recently spayed as that can have an effect some times.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Actually she was... 2weeks ago. And variations day to day is a good way to put it. Just when I think, hey we may be on to something, she says uh uh. 
...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

swaye said:


> Poop is no problem. She had one poop accident the first week we had her and none since. AND she does a half bark half whine to let me know she has to poop, if I happen to not see her at the door. I try to be vigilant when she is out in the kitchen,but sometimes when I am at the sink, I can't see her at the door, although I try to frequently look around to see where she is. She will not let me know she has to pee in this way...:-(


My experience with Kodi, and reading many, MANY potty training threads here over the years, makes me think that THEY don't see "potty training" as being "one thing". I think, from their perspective, there is "pee training" and "poop training".


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Hmmm, that explains why occasionally she will go out and pee and in 5 minutes go out to poop (or vica versa?).


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Sometimes.....they just have to get it.....and immature bladders, small bladders.


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## Lila (Apr 9, 2013)

Mikey's almost 5 months and he goes pee almost regularly every 3 hours. Sometimes he has to go sooner if he's played hard or drank more or eats but his schedule is pretty much - 7:30 am, 10:30 then anywhere from 12:30 - 1:30 depending on my lunch schedule. Then around 3:30 and then I take him out between 5:30 - 6:30 depending on what I'm doing for dinner. Then around 8ish and then 10 - 11:00 pm, depending on when I go to bed 

There's been a couple times he's waited for 4 hours for me but then he's like desperate to go and goes first thing when his paws hit the grass  He does sleep all night: 8-9 hours without going.

I think that if she's real active every 2 - 2 1/2 hours is normal. Unfortunately since she's peed inside quite a few times it makes it harder for her to try to feel it necessary to hold it longer. It's like, "yea, I could hold it a little longer but it would be somewhat uncomfortable waiting so I'll just go where I've gone before"

I don't believe she has any bladder problems if she's holding it all night. She will learn that you and everyone involved is much happier when she goes ONLY outside and as she gets older she'll be able to hold it a little longer but with small dogs I think they still need out every 4 hours if not more most of the time.

Just my two cents :couch2:


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Please also remember.....just because your Hav can hold it 8 hours or so at night, does not mean they can hold it that long during the day.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Lila said:


> Mikey's almost 5 months and he goes pee almost regularly every 3 hours. Sometimes he has to go sooner if he's played hard or drank more or eats but his schedule is pretty much - 7:30 am, 10:30 then anywhere from 12:30 - 1:30 depending on my lunch schedule. Then around 3:30 and then I take him out between 5:30 - 6:30 depending on what I'm doing for dinner. Then around 8ish and then 10 - 11:00 pm, depending on when I go to bed
> 
> There's been a couple times he's waited for 4 hours for me but then he's like desperate to go and goes first thing when his paws hit the grass  He does sleep all night: 8-9 hours without going.
> 
> ...


Leo is 16 weeks today and follows basically the same schedule as Mikey though it starts a couple hours earlier in the morning as I get up about 5:30 to start my day. Leo holds it all night most nights, only had to go out during the night a couple of nights since the first week he came home. I haven't asked him to hold it more than 3 hours at a stretch during the day and still take him out pretty quick after he wakes up or has a vigorous play session. He is supervised VERY closely and has only had 1 pee accident and no poop accidents since he came home at 10.5 weeks. I think small dogs=small bladders and it seems unfair to expect them to go more than 4 hours as adults during the day without going out. As puppies, in order to prevent accidents and help them learn good potty habits, I think they need to be taken out frequently and praised for going in the preferred, by you, potty spot!


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## PiedPiper (Apr 30, 2013)

Piper is younger, but she also sleeps through the night. Her last potty break is around 10pm and then she is up between 6 & 7am when I get up. She can hold it well at night, but during the day, she is out every 2 hours, sometimes more. Does your pup have unlimited access to water? Or do you monitor when she drinks? Piper needs to pee almost immediately after drinking, especially if she's playing. If she comes and lays on your lap, she will sometimes wait an hour before she goes out. It just depends. If I remember correctly, your pup is pretty active, right? It could be that the combo of the activity and the pressure on the bladder is causing more frequent urination. I'd increase her potty breaks to avoid her opportunity to mess indoors and just keep trucking. I find it very discouraging sometimes when I look and see how very far we have to go yet. I love my dog very much, but I am NOT a puppy fan. I knew it would be a lot of work, but I didn't fully realize how MUCH work, if that makes sense. I can get very overwhelmed with all the aspects of training and how to do it, when to do it, what to do if it isn't working. LOL I've formed a bond with Piper, but sometimes I still wish I could just hand her to someone else to raise until she's 6 or so. LOL

I reread your post and realized you mentioned the water/activity thing. So ignore what I said! LOL


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

PiedPiper said:


> I find it very discouraging sometimes when I look and see how very far we have to go yet. I love my dog very much, but I am NOT a puppy fan. I knew it would be a lot of work, but I didn't fully realize how MUCH work, if that makes sense. I can get very overwhelmed with all the aspects of training and how to do it, when to do it, what to do if it isn't working. LOL I've formed a bond with Piper, but sometimes I still wish I could just hand her to someone else to raise until she's 6 or so. LOL


Ha! That's how I feel about kids. I love mine to pieces, but I was never a baby person, and now that mine are grown, I am SO done with babies. Children are fine in small doses, but even there, I'm glad I can send them home again!

While I am very glad I raised Kodi myself, because he is very much a product of MY hard work, I definitely hear you about puppies. I know I want another one "someday", and I know I'll want to raise it myself, but I'm sure not looking forward to the hard parts of that first puppy year!!!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Boy oh boy Piper, you nailed it for me! We have made such great progress in the 3 months we have had her, but it is daunting for me to think about how far we have to go. I miss my freedom at times, but so wanted another dog. I know the joys they give. My husband wanted the pup, me a 2 year old... He doesn't always have the patience it takes, however. AND this is our very first small breed. From experience with medium to larger dogs, I think the small dogs are much more work and I erroneously thought the opposite!! BUT, OH my she is so delightful and cute. I relish at her successes and her warm snuggles just warm my heart. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I was feeling whiney and guilty, too.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Oh and I will act on your advice of more frequent potty breaks, actually had started to. We are having some success with bell ringing, after reading the link Dave sent in my bell ringing post. She now rings the bell with her nose when she is presented with them. In a few more days if she continues to ring them without cues, I will try hanging them every 1.5- 2 hours and then remove them after she had potties outside. Sure hope this works!


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## 1stladysoul (May 17, 2013)

What I have noticed for Skye, is that when I have her on the leash in the house she does not have any accidents and will go only in the "designated area" almost all the time. However, when she is "free" she seems to go every hour all over the house. What we still struggle with is terminology for pooping as I can get her to "potty" on command at 4 months, but she stills does not associate pottying with pooping.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

krandall said:


> While I am very glad I raised Kodi myself, because he is very much a product of MY hard work, I definitely hear you about puppies. I know I want another one "someday", and I know I'll want to raise it myself, but I'm sure not looking forward to the hard parts of that first puppy year!!!


Ha! My husband and I had this coversation for 2 years prior to committing to a new puppy. We love dogs - grown, well-trained, well-behaved, wonderful dogs! Puppies - VERY mixed feelings! Of course they are adorably cute and lots of fun SOMETIMES but they are SO MUCH WORK! The conversation was we want a Havanese; if we get one it needs to be a puppy because of our other grown dogs; but MAN the house training, manners training, energy level - Agggh! But we really want a Havanese - but the puppy part!Agggh!

Well, Leo is here and we love him and are glad he is part of our household, however, if we could magically jump the next 2 years, I'd have to work really hard to turn that down!


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## PiedPiper (Apr 30, 2013)

krandall said:


> Ha! That's how I feel about kids. I love mine to pieces, but I was never a baby person, and now that mine are grown, I am SO done with babies. Children are fine in small doses, but even there, I'm glad I can send them home again!
> 
> While I am very glad I raised Kodi myself, because he is very much a product of MY hard work, I definitely hear you about puppies. I know I want another one "someday", and I know I'll want to raise it myself, but I'm sure not looking forward to the hard parts of that first puppy year!!!


I never minded the baby stage (though I did miss my sleep). I am enjoying the years as my kids get older and more independant though. It's nice when they can help clean instead of just making the mess. HAHA

I agree about reaping the rewards of your own hard work! So true!! We had originally looked at a couple older dogs before we got Piper, but they all had issues I wasn't sure I wanted to deal with. I figured if we went the puppy route at least any issues would be my own fault. LOL


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## PiedPiper (Apr 30, 2013)

swaye said:


> Boy oh boy Piper, you nailed it for me! We have made such great progress in the 3 months we have had her, but it is daunting for me to think about how far we have to go. I miss my freedom at times, but so wanted another dog. I know the joys they give. My husband wanted the pup, me a 2 year old... He doesn't always have the patience it takes, however. AND this is our very first small breed. From experience with medium to larger dogs, I think the small dogs are much more work and I erroneously thought the opposite!! BUT, OH my she is so delightful and cute. I relish at her successes and her warm snuggles just warm my heart. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I was feeling whiney and guilty, too.


Piper is our first small breed as well, and also our first in-house pet, so I can totally relate.


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## m0rg4n (Feb 8, 2013)

PiedPiper said:


> I never minded the baby stage (though I did miss my sleep). I am enjoying the years as my kids get older and more independant though. It's nice when they can help clean instead of just making the mess. HAHA


... I have a nearly 12 year old and haven't hit the "cleaning up after yourself" part yet!


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## PiedPiper (Apr 30, 2013)

m0rg4n said:


> ... I have a nearly 12 year old and haven't hit the "cleaning up after yourself" part yet!


LOL This is my youngest, for sure!! My oldest is very much a little "care taker" she will start the laundry, unload the dishwasher, etc without being asked. She has her moments, of course, but for the most part she is very helpful.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

PiedPiper said:


> I never minded the baby stage (though I did miss my sleep). I am enjoying the years as my kids get older and more independant though. It's nice when they can help clean instead of just making the mess. HAHA
> 
> I agree about reaping the rewards of your own hard work! So true!! We had originally looked at a couple older dogs before we got Piper, but they all had issues I wasn't sure I wanted to deal with. I figured if we went the puppy route at least any issues would be my own fault. LOL


Oh, don't get me wrong! I TOTALLY enjoyed my kids as babies... I just wasn't a "baby person" before or since. But MY babies were "the best babies in the world"!  But still, there were times when I wondered what I'd gotten myself into.:biggrin1:

The advantage to puppies is that if you are totally overwhelmed, you can put them in their crate and LEAVE for a while without getting arrested for it!ound:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

PiedPiper said:


> LOL This is my youngest, for sure!! My oldest is very much a little "care taker" she will start the laundry, unload the dishwasher, etc without being asked. She has her moments, of course, but for the most part she is very helpful.


Ummm. I don't have one like that. Of course, I also only have boys. Even at 20 and 22, they are Masters of Mess. It's not that they aren't willing to help, because if I ask them to do something they will. But I just don't think they even SEE mess the way I do.


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## PiedPiper (Apr 30, 2013)

krandall said:


> The advantage to puppies is that if you are totally overwhelmed, you can put them in their crate and LEAVE for a while without getting arrested for it!ound:


This is so, so true!!


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## PiedPiper (Apr 30, 2013)

krandall said:


> But I just don't think they even SEE mess the way I do.


This is part of the male make up. I'm certain of it! DH will sweep the floor and miss half the dirt and not realize. If he does dishes, he forgets the ones on the stove. They have a blind spot, for sure!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

krandall said:


> Oh, don't get me wrong! I TOTALLY enjoyed my kids as babies... I just wasn't a "baby person" before or since. But MY babies were "the best babies in the world"!  But still, there were times when I wondered what I'd gotten myself into.:biggrin1:
> 
> The advantage to puppies is that if you are totally overwhelmed, you can put them in their crate and LEAVE for a while without getting arrested for it!ound:


Oh, what wit and wisdom in your last sentence!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

PiedPiper said:


> This is part of the male make up. I'm certain of it! DH will sweep the floor and miss half the dirt and not realize. If he does dishes, he forgets the ones on the stove. They have a blind spot, for sure!


I was going to say the same about the male species. Mine does the same same thing with the dishes.


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## 1stladysoul (May 17, 2013)

All this time I thought I was living in the "Twilight Zone" all alone with raising boys and what I went through with this being the first time I have raised a puppy from 8 weeks of age. I agree about raising boys, because my son means well, but for the life of me I can't ever understand why he doesn't see half the stuff on the floor when he vacuums, does the dishes leaving behind the ones on the counter, etc...

I am happy to report at least that I am finally able to get sleep during the night as Skye is finally sleeping the entire night! For the longest period of time, I kept asking myself, WHY would anyone do this. However, she is truly my sunshine and I wouldnt trade being without her for anything!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

PiedPiper said:


> Piper is younger, but she also sleeps through the night. Her last potty break is around 10pm and then she is up between 6 & 7am when I get up. She can hold it well at night, but during the day, she is out every 2 hours, sometimes more. Does your pup have unlimited access to water? Or do you monitor when she drinks? Piper needs to pee almost immediately after drinking, especially if she's playing. If she comes and lays on your lap, she will sometimes wait an hour before she goes out. It just depends. If I remember correctly, your pup is pretty active, right? It could be that the combo of the activity and the pressure on the bladder is causing more frequent urination. I'd increase her potty breaks to avoid her opportunity to mess indoors and just keep trucking. I find it very discouraging sometimes when I look and see how very far we have to go yet. I love my dog very much, but I am NOT a puppy fan. I knew it would be a lot of work, but I didn't fully realize how MUCH work, if that makes sense. I can get very overwhelmed with all the aspects of training and how to do it, when to do it, what to do if it isn't working. LOL I've formed a bond with Piper, but sometimes I still wish I could just hand her to someone else to raise until she's 6 or so. LOL
> 
> I reread your post and realized you mentioned the water/activity thing. So ignore what I said! LOL


I was just curious about your question of monitoring her water. Is this something I should be doing? I do remove het water about 2-2 1/2 hours before her bedtime. And I don't know for sure whether how much she drinks makes a difference for her time table to empty her bladder.


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## 1stladysoul (May 17, 2013)

I monitor Skye's water and do pick it up at least an hour or two before bedtime, as we take our last walk around 10:00pm. She is allowed to drink as much as she wants (which is minimal) after I get home from work until that time. She only drinks a little water in the morning before work if my son has played extensively in the mornings (around 6 am). The sitter was putting water in her crate during the day, but she only turned it over, so she is only given a very small meal during his visit with her. She is just learning to drink some water after our evening walks or after serious playtime. I am thinking about putting her in a ex-pen during the day and have been wondering if she will need one of the bottles for water I can attach to the pen. This is such a learning experience and each day seems to only bring questions and more research. Maybe by the time she is a year old, I will have this right! :der:


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

I agree about each day "bringing more questions and research". I can't decide if it is the breed, the size, or both. This is not our first pup by any means, but our first small pup.


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## PiedPiper (Apr 30, 2013)

swaye said:


> I was just curious about your question of monitoring her water. Is this something I should be doing? I do remove het water about 2-2 1/2 hours before her bedtime. And I don't know for sure whether how much she drinks makes a difference for her time table to empty her bladder.


Piper pees about 15 mintues after she drinks, so if your pup is drinking and you don't know it, then you could miss the "need to pee". We give Piper access to water multiple times during the day and then she gets her last drink 1 hour before bed.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

From an animal husbandry standpoint, I believe that ALL animals should have access to clean, fresh, water at all times. I won't use withholding water as a way to expedite potty training.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

That is what I have read, but also ok to remove it a couple of hours before bedtime.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

swaye said:


> That is what I have read, but also ok to remove it a couple of hours before bedtime.


Many people do it, and it doesn't appear to be harmful. But its not something I'd do to my dog.


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## PiedPiper (Apr 30, 2013)

krandall said:


> From an animal husbandry standpoint, I believe that ALL animals should have access to clean, fresh, water at all times. I won't use withholding water as a way to expedite potty training.


To each their own, I guess. I definitely don't feel that Piper is in any way deprived, but perhaps it depends how the method is executed. Piper has access whenever she pleases everytime she's out of her kennel, which is the majority of the time. Because she is still in the same room with us though, we are able to monitor when she drinks. We do remove it before bed and she doesn't drink when she gets up in the AM, so I don't think it's bothering her.


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## 1stladysoul (May 17, 2013)

I don't think Skye is very fond of drinking water, as we have been out walking in this Houston heat and when we return home I consistently try to get her to drink water but she is usually more interested in sitting under her personal fan with her belly on the floor. I don't see anything wrong with limiting water drinking, especially after 9 or 10 at night, which is the same thing most people do for a human toddler. To be honest, I also limit my drinking before bedtime, which cuts out the need for me to get up in the middle of the night. We don't go to bed before 11:00 so getting up at 5:00 am is no picnic!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

PiedPiper said:


> To each their own, I guess. I definitely don't feel that Piper is in any way deprived, but perhaps it depends how the method is executed. Piper has access whenever she pleases everytime she's out of her kennel, which is the majority of the time. Because she is still in the same room with us though, we are able to monitor when she drinks. We do remove it before bed and she doesn't drink when she gets up in the AM, so I don't think it's bothering her.


This is what we do also. She is a water drinker, particularly after a long walk in warmer weather or after intense indoor play, including RLH.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Actually, as they get older, and the play time isl replaced by laying around time, our dogs always self regulated the water drinking.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

krandall said:


> My experience with Kodi, and reading many, MANY potty training threads here over the years, makes me think that THEY don't see "potty training" as being "one thing". I think, from their perspective, there is "pee training" and "poop training".


Karen, the more I have observed her elimination the past 3 days, I wonder if this isn't her thinking. Although she does do both pee and poop at the same outing most of the time, there are times (maybe once a day) she first pees and within 30 minutes or less she wants to go out again and than poops. My thought is how can one know if this is the case and is there a way to teach they are one and the same...or do they just have to one day "get it?" We use the same word for both. Thank you...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

swaye said:


> Karen, the more I have observed her elimination the past 3 days, I wonder if this isn't her thinking. Although she does do both pee and poop at the same outing most of the time, there are times (maybe once a day) she first pees and within 30 minutes or less she wants to go out again and than poops. My thought is how can one know if this is the case and is there a way to teach they are one and the same...or do they just have to one day "get it?" We use the same word for both. Thank you...


Kodi will go pee on command, even if it's just to squat and force out a couple of drops to appease me.<g> But if he doesn't feel the urge to poop, no amount of coaxing will get him to try. But I guess that's true of humans too. You can almost always produce a urine sample for the doctor, if requested. But the other? Happens when it happens. And if it's not the right time, no amount of "will" can make it happen. We can "hold it" longer if we need to (and so can they... especially as they get older) but we can't go if we don't need to go!

We do use two separate cues with Kodi... "go pee" and "go poop". We also pretty much know his schedule. So if it's around the time he's likely to need to poop, we can remind him to get down to business by saying "go poop" at those times. Other times of day, he would totally ignore us. He will ALWAYS "go pee" on cue, however. That's useful if we're getting in the car for a long ride!


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Brody knows the "go pee" command, but he won't do it unless he has to go. If he has to go then he'll start looking for a spot, etc. If he doesn't, he just gives me a look like "are you nuts?".


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## 1stladysoul (May 17, 2013)

misstray said:


> Brody knows the "go pee" command, but he won't do it unless he has to go. If he has to go then he'll start looking for a spot, etc. If he doesn't, he just gives me a look like "are you nuts?".


That is so cute. I thought Skye was special in doing the same thing. She will go on the "go potty" command, but if she does not need to go, she sits and looks at me with her head turned to the side. The look she gives me is priceless. Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I was wondering what command to give her so she will learn the difference between "go potty" and "go poop" Awesome!!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Yes, Sofie will go on command also (or pretend to). If I have to leave and will be gone for a couple if hours, I like to give her the opportunity to potty, even if she just went 30 minutes ago and 99% of the time she does (or pretends to). And likewise, poop is another story. If the urge is not there, no amount if time spent will bring about results! We pretty much know her poop schedule...until she changes it!


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