# Angie's Story: Hav-ing a Fit



## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

My rescue hava-shih Angie is train wreck when it comes to being groomed. After a 2 1/2 hour battle last nite, I'm wondering if I'm doing the best thing for her by grooming her myself. I'm looking for some advice.

I promised myself that I'd never take her to a groomer based on what we've observed since she first came into our home. She was in full dlight or fight mode. She ran into the front door, jumped on the sofa and landed on top of the lamp table behind the sofa, where she stayed for the next 6 hours. The story we were told by the local rescue group was that she had a good home, then went to a bad home, then a good Samaritan intervened and then she went to rescue. My belief is that she was so mistreated perhaps someone stole her and handed her over to resuce. Whatever the case, she has a wonderful home for life with us and we'll never do her wrong.

When she first came home, she had extreme fear aggression and was not motivated by food. It was so obvious to us that she'd been severly mistreated and physcially ambused. It took a solid six months to work through alot of her fears. Even now, putting her leash and collar on her can send her into a state of anxiety. If it takes too long, she starts screaming like we're going to beat her and tries to run under the coffee table. She gets all snarly also when I'm putting on her doggie seatbelt; the click of the plastic snap upsets her, even though she loves car rides.

We take her out in public, now that she's stopped biting nearly anyone who leans over her. She greets family and strangers nicely, seems to love kids and other small dogs. She loves to be outside and loves Gracie. The rescue lady said she knew she'd found her a good home when she learned we had a small white dog. She said Angie loves white dogs, so that made me believe she knew more about Angie than she could/would share. We had a lengthy interview and a home visit. I signed a binding contract.

She is bonded closely with me and with my DH, but for a while the family was afraid of her, for good reason, as she nipped nearly everyone within the first month. We always try to be patient, calm but in charge. We talk softly to her, never strike her, wait for her to collect herself when she loses it. We've worked on her barking-at-anything-that-moves-outside, and on the commands Come, Sit, Leave it, Look at Me. She sits before she is fed. She loves walks and does pretty well on the leash. She is better about being food motivated unless she is too stressed out and wild-eyed. She gives great signals about her anxiety, which I've learned to spot and now understand through reading Turid Rugaas' book on calming signals: licking lips, showing teeth, yawning, turning head away. It took her six months I'd say before she gave us solid, sustained eye contact.

Honestly, she is a completely different dog with but one remaining issue: grooming. I have worked with her for 18 months on grooming manners, but she still pitches a fit, snaps, bares teeth, bites, freaks out, screams, curls up in a ball, etc for bath time and major grooming sessions. I give her Rescue Remedy, but I've had to muzzle her to do anything with her feet, like trim hair or clip nails, or pull ear hair, which she has a lot of. She won't hold still so I can trim her face. She's reactive to her back end, under her front legs, under her belly, pretty much all over. I'm at a loss. :yield:

She is super sensitive about her legs and feet. She licks them like a cat. When her saliva dries her fur sticks together and makes micro-knots. We've been teaching her the "no lick" command, but she's smart enough to wait until we're not paying attention. It's a nightmare to keep her legs combed out and over the past three months I've slacked off on daily grooming cause I want to avoid all the drama.

In contrast, Gracie is a breeze to groom. I lay out the spray bottle, the comb, the brush and the bag of treats. She jumps up on the ottoman, lays on her side and away we go. She even falls asleep. Guess that's the beauty of starting with a puppy. [sigh]

In May I gave her what is called a lamb cut (pretty much a shaved body with long hair left on legs, tail and face). As you can see from her pictures, she looks more like a shih tzu than a hav. She may even be full-blooded shih tzu, for all we know. Her hair is double-coated but not great quality. She has a pretty face, beautiful eyes and a good tail, so I think the lamb cut is a good cut to keep her daily grooming to a minimum and keep her (and my) stress level down. She starts smelling spunky about 4-5 days after a bath.

Last night was the battle to end all battles, as I was trying to give her another lamb cut in advance of an upcoming Thanksgiving trip. She carried on like nobody's business. I used the clippers (or tried to) before I bathed her. She started showing me teeth early and I had to use one hand to leash her while I tried to use the clippers with my other hand. Every leg was full of tiny little knots. I used a rake on her legs, which I'd gotten during my month-long adventure to comb out her ears when she first came to us. Her ears were so matted they stuck way out from her head. She howled, screamed cried, snarled, then tried to crawl up my neck, she was so upset. I didn't want to shave her legs, nor did I think she'd even hold still for me to do so. So I muzzled her, held her down and alternated using the rake and the comb, until her legs were done, and we were both completely stressed out and exhausted. This went on from 7:15 -9:45 pm!!! :frusty:

Today she seems none the worse for wear but I'm second-guessing myself, wondering if she'd be better off with a professional groomer. I'm concerned about how she might be treated, but I'm not doing a very good job myself lately. What's better for her?

I've got to figure out how to put my comments above the picture, but in the meantime, the first two are the day she came, the third one is six months later, the last two are from last month.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

awwwwww, beautiful girl!! I am so sorry about all the stress grooming is causing you.
If it were me, I would go through the stress and struggles to shave her completely down... is she food motivated at all? if so, giving HIGH quality treats nearly constantly during grooming sessions? I'm so sorry, i hope that you can get some good advise that will help your sweet girl!!


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

I don't know if others would agree with me or not, but I would be tempted to talk to my vet and get a mild sedative for grooming times, at least, the times when Angie does actually have to be groomed (as opposed to desensitizing sessions). Struggling with her and forcing her to be muzzled and stressed the entire session is probably not helping her attitude towards future grooming... And, as Tammy said above, then I would go ahead and get her completely shaved down so that you can then concentrate on very short mini-sessions of 'grooming' (for instance, holding her leg with the brush near it for 10 seconds, then giving her at treat, and then doing something else) to desensitize her without the need to actually get her groomed (at least, for a while).

Good luck! And kudos to you for not giving up on her like her previous owners obviously did!


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Oh, she is so cute. Lizzie is a total booger when it comes to her legs and feet. I do get them combed, but not without a little attitude. I CANNOT trim her nails. I do take her to the groomer for that and they have difficulty . I think that Angie may react even more with a groomer especially since her past is unknown. I can only echo Tammy and suggest treats and go slow. I know what it is like to get started grooming and want to get it all done, though.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I am no expert, but the mild sedative came to my mind also. Shave her down completely, then slowly introduce grooming session. I would let a professional groomer clip her so the groom will be quick.


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## sashamom (Jan 12, 2009)

I agree with idea of a sedative. If she is that afraid I would be concerned that she will eventually hurt herself or you. Poor thing, fear is not something that a person can easily control, just imagine if you did not really understand what was going to happen. It sounds as if she might have had grooming issues which caused her to be even more abused.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

I agree that a tranquilizer is in order.


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

She is a very cute dog. Except for bathing, drying and brushing and neating up trimming of feet and anal area, mine are never brushed for more than 1/2 hour, usually about 15 minutes. My suggestion is start with 5 minutes EVERY day. After a few days, increase to 10, etc. I'm not sure about a groomer shaving her down, that might put her over the top.
I hope someone has the "perfect" answer. Good luck and keep trying.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Angie is such a pretty girl. I can relate - a little - to your pup's issues with grooming. My girl, Buffy, does not tolerate combing well at all on her legs or belly or anywhere if it lasts more than a short time [which it usually does because she has a cottony coat and my two play very roughly with each other which creates mats constantly].

I try to keep the grooming sessions short - less than 10 minutes - unless I need to get her completely de-matted prior to a bath. Buffy gets irritated if I spend too much time on any mat and will growl at me. if I do not heed her warning, she may snap at me. I talk to her as calmly as I can and switch to another location on her body but eventually have to come back to the same mat.

We have used a soft muzzle on her for doing her nails. My husband uses the grinder while I hold her. I would not be able to do it by myself even if she is attached to the grooming arm. Lately, I have just brought her into Petsmart and paid them to do it. she usually doesn't give them a problem, so it is a win-win.

It sounds as if your Angie may need to be gently sedated for grooming. If you can find an understanding groomer, it might be in Angie's and your best interests - especially for your relationship - to have the groomer take care of her big groom.

Please keep us updated about Angie and Gracie [who is very pretty, by the way].


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks for all your encouragement and good advice. I agree that a mild sedative may be in order, you know, one for me, one for her, lol! I'm also going to go back to the basics, back to grooming her a few minutes every day, hanging out with the comb and treats. It also occurred to me that I need to have a way to leash her so I can have both my hands free to work on her. Right now I'm trying to do it all with one hand. So I'm gonna need a grooming table and a real dog hair dryer. My gut tells me she wants to be good but gets so scared fear overcomes her. I think she's better off if I groom her, so I'm going to re-approach this with some meds, shorter sessions, better tools and more patience.

Thanks again, gals!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Lsprick said:


> Thanks for all your encouragement and good advice. I agree that a mild sedative may be in order, you know, one for me, one for her, lol! I'm also going to go back to the basics, back to grooming her a few minutes every day, hanging out with the comb and treats. It also occurred to me that I need to have a way to leash her so I can have both my hands free to work on her. Right now I'm trying to do it all with one hand. So I'm gonna need a grooming table and a real dog hair dryer. My gut tells me she wants to be good but gets so scared fear overcomes her. I think she's better off if I groom her, so I'm going to re-approach this with some meds, shorter sessions, better tools and more patience.
> 
> Thanks again, gals!


 You are a good mom to take such great care of her. I bet it's extremely hard. Let us know how she progresses .:hug:


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## Puppylove54 (Oct 19, 2011)

I guess I am a lucky mom as Kyia has no issues regarding grooming. She lays quietly on the grooming table or on my lap and I comb away and work on small mats. I both her with No More Tangles shampoo and conditioner and use the No More Tangles spray on the mats when dry combing and have found it much easier. I only take her to the groomer for her nails, feet and to trim up her mussel. I spend up to 1 hour per day grooming her. The groomer I go to said she has never seen a full coat Havanese without mats as all of her clients had their dogs cut down. If I can continue to get good results this way she will always have a full coat. Of course we look forward to our treat after every grooming no matter how long it lasts. I saw the picture of Angie. She is a beauty, I love this cut on her. Kyia's mom


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

What a story about your experiences with grooming and Angie. How is she doing now? She surely looks like all Shih Tzu...and she is beautiful!!


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

I would say it's a work in progress. My vet did put her on valium, to give it 2 hrs before i need to groom her. The meds definitely make her loopy, but not sure it helps with the agression. I got a grooming table and CC dog dryer for Christmas, so I am better equipped to handle her. Last week I bathed and dried her successfully without any meds. Had to get DH to help with cutting nails and feet trimming, though. I'm getting ready to get up and start dog baths right now, so I'll see how she does this time.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Good luck, the right tools do help!! Let us know how she does.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

I agree, going to a groomer will most likely be a step backwards, unless it is a groomer that specializes in difficult dogs. Consult your vet for the strength of sedative bc dogs can override being sedated and that is very dangerous. Just have her shaved for low maintenance and leave the brushing for your puppy. Brushing out even small knots and snarls can be asking too much at the same time. First get her to tolerate the brush and then you can go for a nicer hair style. You just want to take baby steps right now keep her comfortable and not worry about how she looks. She is very cute and I admire your commitment to her she is very lucky to have you.


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

atsilvers27 said:


> I agree, going to a groomer will most likely be a step backwards, unless it is a groomer that specializes in difficult dogs. Consult your vet for the strength of sedative bc dogs can override being sedated and that is very dangerous. Just have her shaved for low maintenance and leave the brushing for your puppy. Brushing out even small knots and snarls can be asking too much at the same time. First get her to tolerate the brush and then you can go for a nicer hair style. You just want to take baby steps right now keep her comfortable and not worry about how she looks. She is very cute and I admire your commitment to her she is very lucky to have you.


Thanks, that means alot coming from a professional. Your dog is just beautiful. I have beginner groomer envy, lol.

I have tried to take the path of least resistance for her, so I'm not coming at her with a brush and comb inbetween baths. I am sticking to a weekly bath. She starts smelling spunky after five days or so. I'm also wiping her face daily with sterile eye pads to keep down the smell.

I shave her myself, following instructions I found on a Shih-Tzu forum for what is called a lamb cut. I like to leave her legs and tail fluffy. I also like her ears longer. I think its probably more kosher to cut her ears the same length at her chin, but she has a graduating coloring on her ears that I would lose if I cropped them. To a professional groomer, she probably looks like a hot mess!

I bathed her yesterday, not using any meds. The grooming leash is helping alot and she wasn't very tangled on her legs. I know she's just scared, because as soon as I let her down, she's begging me for her cookie!

I'll put up some pics.


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

Here's some pics taken after her bath yesterday. In the last one, her leg looks bowed, but that's because the trim is crooked. Gotta work on that!


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

Puppylove54 said:


> I guess I am a lucky mom as Kyia has no issues regarding grooming. She lays quietly on the grooming table or on my lap and I comb away and work on small mats. I both her with No More Tangles shampoo and conditioner and use the No More Tangles spray on the mats when dry combing and have found it much easier. I only take her to the groomer for her nails, feet and to trim up her mussel. I spend up to 1 hour per day grooming her. The groomer I go to said she has never seen a full coat Havanese without mats as all of her clients had their dogs cut down. If I can continue to get good results this way she will always have a full coat. Of course we look forward to our treat after every grooming no matter how long it lasts. I saw the picture of Angie. She is a beauty, I love this cut on her. Kyia's mom


Sounds like you're doing all the right things! Kyia has such pretty coloring. I enjoy grooming sessions with Gracie my white Hav who is in a full coat. I started brushing sessions as a puppy so now she jumps right up and lays on her side. Angie came to us as an abused rescue, about two years ago. We think she is about four years old.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Lsprick said:


> Here's some pics taken after her bath yesterday. In the last one, her leg looks bowed, but that's because the trim is crooked. Gotta work on that!


I love that you leave the ears longer...the color is pretty.. Angie is just a pretty girl and so is Gracie...


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

I haven't read all the replies you have had.But just to say Gracie looks beautiful in the pictures,and it seems like you are doing a good job with the grooming.I chickened out with the grooming as Dizzie has always hated it,even though we started from day one,I think it was when coat blowing was at it's worst that he really didn't want anymore of it.Nellie has always been very easy to groom.But now they go to the groomers once every 8 weeks,and have the full works,so that means I'm not the baddie!I trust the groomer with them she is very good with all types of animals.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

It sounds like you are so wonderfully patient with Angie and it seems to be paying off. She looks so good. You are making a lot of progress with her!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Lsprick said:


> My rescue hava-shih Angie is train wreck when it comes to being groomed. After a 2 1/2 hour battle last nite, I'm wondering if I'm doing the best thing for her by grooming her myself. I'm looking for some advice.
> 
> I promised myself that I'd never take her to a groomer based on what we've observed since she first came into our home. She was in full dlight or fight mode. She ran into the front door, jumped on the sofa and landed on top of the lamp table behind the sofa, where she stayed for the next 6 hours. The story we were told by the local rescue group was that she had a good home, then went to a bad home, then a good Samaritan intervened and then she went to rescue. My belief is that she was so mistreated perhaps someone stole her and handed her over to resuce. Whatever the case, she has a wonderful home for life with us and we'll never do her wrong.
> 
> ...


I do notice she has no staining on her face...has she ever had? So pretty!


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

she looks very pretty


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