# grooming failure; starting over



## andra (Aug 23, 2010)

Well, I am a big failure and I am coming here for wise counsel regarding grooming and managing Dionna's coat.

Dionna has beautiful hair, both in color and it is very very soft and silky. I normally keep her in a cut that is a little bit longer than a puppy cut and I have two grooming tools to brush her (which I purchased from the groomer). I take her to a groomer that I really like as the set up is very dog friendly. I decided to try to grow her out a bit longer and then also hubby and I went away for a week and my parents watched her. I thought she looked so beautiful as she was getting a longer coat. I dont know what exactly happened but she started to progressively become more and more matted. And she also seemed to have a thicker coat (no change in color or texture) and I thought maybe this was due to winter but also maybe because the last time I had her groomed, she only had a light trim. I know this sounds like an exaggeration but it seemed like almost overnight, she became a ball of mats. Despite my efforts, I was unable to get a handle on them. Dionna, bless her gentle heart, would be patient while I tried to brush these mats out but I did not want to hurt her or stress her as she does not really like to be brushed.

So, yesterday I took her to the groomers and told her what happened. Dionna was cut really really short in order to basically start over evenly and to give her skin, which had not started to turn pink from the mats, a break. She looks so puny now Dionna does not seem to mind but I feel terrible about this. I know she will grow back out but I want to learn what I am doing wrong, what I need to be doing to maintain her coat and what products you suggest.

I feel very horrible about this and I almost hesitate to post because of my shame about this but I love her so much that I dont want this to happen again.

She has a vet appointment next week for distemper shot so I also plan on asking my vet for suggestions about her coat. But I wanted to ask the elite group of owners here their recommendations.

Thank you so much for your help!

andra


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I hate to tell you, but this is a perfectly normal happening. Your little one is "blowing coat". It happens to every Havanese actually every dog. It is the shedding of the puppy coat and at the same time the adult coat is coming in. On most dogs it is no problem, but with the texture of the Havanese coat, the loose hair tangles (mats) with the new coat. It lasts a while and you did exactly what I did. I tried to manage, but saw no advantage to torturing the dog; so I had Rosie cut down and life was good again. You can brush every day now and manage the matting process. It grows back and you and your dog are "happy campers". By the way, it doesn't matter what you try as far as product. I wasted a little money trying different things, some actually made it a little easier to detangle, but nothing really worked well. Now I just bathe Rosie with regular human shampoo and Pantene conditioner. The conditioner is the trick, otherwise you can't comb out the long hair. Good luck and enjoy your baby. By the way, we have to have pictures, its a rule.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

awwwww, does sound like blowing coat snuck up on you!! Try not to feel bad, hair will grow back fast!! I knew about blowing coat and was combing her out 3-4 times a DAY during coat blowing and I STILL lost the battle and had to have her shaved down. She was about 9-10 months old when this happened.
You need to purchase a GOOD Chris Christensen "Buttercomb" (#5) and use it on her everyday, on every inch of her body as her hair grows out! A brush simply can not get down to the skin when our babies have any amount of hair!!
Good luck and keep us posted!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Some dogs are just worse about matting than others, and if you have a combination of a dog who mats badly, AND resists being groomed, it's recipe for frustration!:frusty:

DON'T feel bad. There are plenty of people who keep their dogs in puppy cuts permanently! If you want to try growing her out again, do so, and just make SURE you keep up with that daily grooming... getting ALL the way down to her skin. But even if you find that she is just one of those who mats badly enough that it's not worth your effort, DON'T feel bad or embarrassed about it. She's still the same happy Hav underneath, long hair or short!


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## nlb (Feb 26, 2012)

Which Pantene conditioner? Any?


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I use the Classic. I went sunday to Walgreens to get shampoo--DH won't go in Walmart. We couldn't find just plain Pantene. I finally told him to just grab one. He came up with Smooth. Works the same as any. I guess the Classic was there also, but didn't see it. It is a small Walgreens. He was fussing and saying "thank God we don't have to go to Walmart". I was glad I didn't have tolook for the baby shampoo as I have plenty. He would have freaked out right there. lol Oh I use baby shampoo on Rosie to keep from stinging her eyes. It is hard to wash a dog's head and face without getting it in their eyes, so I just finally started bathing her entire body with the baby shampoo. I don't condition her head. The hair there is silky and thin, combs right out.


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## nlb (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks! 

I have been getting concerned about Cass and her lack of fullness around her nose. Just a bit worried that her tail hair is still shorter than I would have expected right now.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

nlb said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I have been getting concerned about Cass and her lack of fullness around her nose. Just a bit worried that her tail hair is still shorter than I would have expected right now.


I don't know what to say about her nose, except that she DOES look like she has more hair on her nose than in the beginning. But Kodi had an awful little bottle brush of a tail at Cassie's age, and he's got a beautiful tail now. They do seem to grow at different rates!


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## nlb (Feb 26, 2012)

krandall said:


> I don't know what to say about her nose, except that she DOES look like she has more hair on her nose than in the beginning. But Kodi had an awful little bottle brush of a tail at Cassie's age, and he's got a beautiful tail now. They do seem to grow at different rates!


I was hoping you'd say that about her tail! Whew! I know with her colors there, it's going to be great!

I think her nose and chin are filling in some, but maybe she is destined to not be poofy there? The hair is getting into her eyes again, but I think I can train it to lay below them soon.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I had no idea that it would take so long for a Havanese puppy to look like the adults. I was sure that Rosie would not have a taill. Now she steps on it. Most little dogs are grown at 6 months--not these babies. I read that the adult coat was not complete until 3 years old.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Luciledodd said:


> I had no idea that it would take so long for a Havanese puppy to look like the adults. I was sure that Rosie would not have a taill. Now she steps on it. Most little dogs are grown at 6 months--not these babies. I read that the adult coat was not complete until 3 years old.


I'd heard the same, but Kodi will be 3 at the end of April, and his Belton marks STILL haven't grown all the way down through his coat, so I'm not sure his coat is completely finished even now!


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Karen, since I had Rosie trimmed twice, all of her hair started out the last time the same length. The ticking is in the undercoat--that is the only thing that makes sense and the reason why it is so noticebly when she was in a puppy cut. Now some on her legs is the same length as the rest of her hair an maybe a few other spots, but mostly it is about 2-3 inches and since her coat is so thick, it has to be undercoat.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

No one is ever a failure! It is a learning experience. It will take many lessons until you get it right. Hair grows.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

krandall said:


> Some dogs are just worse about matting than others, and if you have a combination of a dog who mats badly, AND resists being groomed, it's recipe for frustration!:frusty:


If you want an unbelievable mess, try throwing some greasy hair from ear medication into the mix of hair that mats badly (he is presently blowing coat) and a dog that resists being groomed, although Finn is improving somewhat in the last area. The only way I can look at Finn's mess positively, is that less hair around the ears may provide better ventilation and hopefully no more ear infections - I have had to remove tons of hair around his ears - it was matted so badly. This boy is none too handsome lately.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Luciledodd said:


> Karen, since I had Rosie trimmed twice, all of her hair started out the last time the same length. The ticking is in the undercoat--that is the only thing that makes sense and the reason why it is so noticebly when she was in a puppy cut. Now some on her legs is the same length as the rest of her hair an maybe a few other spots, but mostly it is about 2-3 inches and since her coat is so thick, it has to be undercoat.


That must be another variable from dog to dog, then. Kodi's ticking is DEFINITELY in his outer coat.(too?) His "stripes" are the same length as the rest of his coat.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

motherslittlehelper said:


> If you want an unbelievable mess, try throwing some greasy hair from ear medication into the mix of hair that mats badly and a dog that resists being groomed, although Finn is improving somewhat in the last area. The only way I can look at Finn's mess positively, is that less hair around the ears may provide better ventilation and hopefully no more ear infections - I have had to remove tons of hair around his ears - it was matted so badly. This boy is none too handsome lately.


Awww, I bet he's adorable anyway, even if he IS giving you a run for your money!!!:biggrin1:


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

Welcome to the club of matt busters (hav mums and dads)! My boy Roki (2 yrs.) started matting (again) heavily at the beginning of February (extremely cold and snowy weather) and now I can say I won the war against matts! Week ago I bought CC buttercomb #005 and I can describe that grooming tool as the "weapon" that decided the outcome of that war. It is expensive (in US 35$ and here on discount 45$ - full price 52$) but worth buying. What really helped me a lot is Isle of Dogs dematting (wonder) spray. Also expensive, but worth buying!
Marina&Roki


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## Rene831 (Mar 25, 2012)

Charly girl is only 6 months. I'm not looking forward to her blowing coat. I use "The Stuff" daily when brushing her and she has yet to have any mats. This forum has a wealth of info for us new-bees and I thank you guys for sharing your experience. I'm going to get Charly a wooded pin brush and a buttercomb.


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## curly_DC (Nov 27, 2011)

I would not ever feel ashamed of a bad hair cut, as long as your dog is well cared for. Hair grows, and as long as they're comfortable, they don't know what their hair cut looks like. 

I still get people asking me if Sergio is a Bichon. I'm not sure if I'm going to grow his hair out beyond a mop top or not. I just wanted it to grow a bit more to look a little bit like a mop, and then I'll keep it trimmed. 

I don't mind if people laugh at Sergio's haircut. I almost didn't recognize him when he bounced from the groomer's. He's a funny little dude!!

And part of it was my fault, because I told the groomer I wanted him to have shorter ears. And she even asked, "Are you sure you want to cut his ears shorter?" 

I've decided to take him to the groomer every 2 weeks for his shampoo and condition and blow dry and nail trim instead of doing it myself. I wasn't really enjoying it, and I'm not sure I was able to fully rinse out the shampoo. And I was over conditioning. He's much less scratchy and itchy after his professional grooming. I no longer touch his coat except for a quick brush or comb with CC. 

My own hair is pretty low maintenance, so I would rather pay to take him to the groomer.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

Rene831 said:


> Charly girl is only 6 months. I'm not looking forward to her blowing coat. I use "The Stuff" daily when brushing her and she has yet to have any mats. This forum has a wealth of info for us new-bees and I thank you guys for sharing your experience. I'm going to get Charly a wooded pin brush and a buttercomb.


Awww! What a sweet choco girl! Want more pictures! 
The Stuff contains an old, harsh type of sylicone that leves heavy residue on the coat. I think that it is a bit too strong for a pup. if you want to use product with sylicone, there are much better and safer products like CC Ice on Ice. I prefer more natural products like Isle of Dogs Evening Primrose Mist to which I add one small bottle of pure aloe vera juice. I strongly recomend Chris Christensen wood pin brush and buttercomb #005. I have bought two other brushes and one comb, but now I use almost exclusively wood pin brush and buttercomb.

Marina&Roki


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## Rene831 (Mar 25, 2012)

rokipiki said:


> Awww! What a sweet choco girl! Want more pictures!
> The Stuff contains an old, harsh type of sylicone that leves heavy residue on the coat. I think that it is a bit too strong for a pup. if you want to use product with sylicone, there are much better and safer products like CC Ice on Ice. I prefer more natural products like Isle of Dogs Evening Primrose Mist to which I add one small bottle of pure aloe vera juice. I strongly recomend Chris Christensen wood pin brush and buttercomb #005. I have bought two other brushes and one comb, but now I use almost exclusively wood pin brush and buttercomb.
> 
> Marina&Roki


Marina, Thanks for the recommendations. I like the way the sylicone works to coat the hair so debris falls out so easily. If a natural product that is safer does the same thing I'm going to get a bottle. Charly and I go to the dog beach 2-3 x a week and she has play dates where she gets a few stickers.


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## curly_DC (Nov 27, 2011)

rokipiki said:


> Awww! What a sweet choco girl! Want more pictures!
> The Stuff contains an old, harsh type of sylicone that leves heavy residue on the coat. I think that it is a bit too strong for a pup. if you want to use product with sylicone, there are much better and safer products like CC Ice on Ice. I prefer more natural products like Isle of Dogs Evening Primrose Mist to which I add one small bottle of pure aloe vera juice. I strongly recomend Chris Christensen wood pin brush and buttercomb #005. I have bought two other brushes and one comb, but now I use almost exclusively wood pin brush and buttercomb.
> 
> Marina&Roki


My groomer used CC Ice on Ice leave in conditioner on Sergio, and Sergio's blow out stayed looking fresh for almost two weeks. He's only now starting to look a little scruffy again, and he's due at the groomer's tomorrow for another shampoo and conditioning.

I also bought the CC small wooden pin brush and the Buttercomb #005 and the smaller face comb.

The funny thing is though, I leave those combs and brush out in my entry hall so I can give Sergio a quick brush when we come back in from outside if I think he needs it. A couple times he's picked up the brush with his teeth when I wasn't looking and moved it to the living room. I'm not quite sure if it's because he wants me to brush him there, or he's just trying to hide the brush.  I don't think he's too keen on grooming when I do it.


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