# Can a dog be taken away?



## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

We adopted Murphy from a rescue organization. He was given up by a family on vacation and they provided his AKC papers when they surrendered him to the rescue, the rescue then gave them to me.

I'd like to contact the breeder to ask for health history on his parents but I'm scared they'll tell me I have to give him back to them. When we got Scooter we signed a contract saying we'd return him to the breeder if we couldn't keep him for any reason. I tried to locate the breeder but could only find a home address for them and no listing for their breeding name, makes me think they're backyard breeders. 

I filed his papers with the AKC but haven't received them back yet. Is it safe for me to try to reach out to the breeder or can they try to claim ownership of Murphy?


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I don't see how the breeder could come after you since her/his contract was with someone else. However, I don't know if I personally would want to run that risk. He is the cutest thing. Why on earth would his owner have given him up??


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Ann, I hope you get some reassuring information here. I can't imagine it is even remotely legally possible...but I would be just as nervous as you are.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

The lady from the rescue said they had small children and went on vacation, took the dog they'd had only a week with them and then decided they couldn't handle him. She said he was dirty when they brought him in, had dried poo on him and his back legs were yellow. She thinks they were just keeping him in a crate. :rant: She was angry and told them so AFTER they signed him over. She said the first thing she did was give him a bath and that he fell asleep in her arms right after. Poor baby, he must have been so freaked out.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Ann, I don't know the answer to your question, but I keep thinking about Ellen when she rescued the puppy and then gave it away to another family. The rescue found out and came and took the puppy back. If it is a backyard breeder, they may not respond to you anyway. Have you tried entering his information in the havanese registry and seeing if you can get some names of his relatives? Then, you can try to enter them in the OFFA website and see some health info. I have never been able to find anything out on where Dugan came from. Havanese Rescue will not give the papers with the dog. I had some stuff that had a few names on it, but I was not able to locate anything.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Ann, I wouldn't chance it. My guess is the breeder was not responsive or the previous owners would have taken Murphy back to the breeder after just a week. I also can say... health testing does not always tell you anything about your dog. Cash's parents were tested up the wazoo and he still has mild CD and some other issues. I would say enjoy your pup and deal with any issue that may or may not arise. I keep thinking of Ellen too.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Ann if you have his papers you could always check the gallery and offa. I am not sure how much you would learn from the breeder. But usually people sign a release with rescue. If you want to pm me, I can help you look


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I forgot about that with Ellen! I think it might be best if I just keep my mouth shut for once. (My husband won't believe I just said that!)


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I didn't copy the paper before I sent it off so I'm going to have to wait to get them back from AKC, should have copied it!!! When it comes back I may ask for your help Amanda.
Thanks!


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Ann, Murphy is not going anywhere! :der: Attorneys are not cheap and feel they were in it for the money only. Karen and Amanda gave good suggestions to try to find out more info.
 It is horrible the way the family treated Murphy, thank goodness, they had the sense to give him up. Ellen . . . that whole episode was heartbreaking .


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I would think the breeder would be happy you rescued that adorable puppy. But, see what you can find out on your own to be safe.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I would never chance it!! It just could happen that the backyard breeder, is an attorney, or their kid is an attorney!! Just keep Murphy safe and happy where he is - with or without papers - he is still your baby!! And cute as a button!!


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

I agree with Laurie.


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## boo2352 (Dec 18, 2006)

I wouldn't chance it either. Also, like Missy, MacGyver's parents, grandparents, etc., had all the health tests, but he still had cd serious enough to need surgery, so parent history isn't everything.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

It's just hard for me to imagine that you could be held responsible for a contract made between two other people???
Carole


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Scooter's Family said:


> We adopted Murphy from a rescue organization. He was given up by a family on vacation and they provided his AKC papers when they surrendered him to the rescue, the rescue then gave them to me.
> 
> I'd like to contact the breeder to ask for health history on his parents but I'm scared they'll tell me I have to give him back to them. *When we got Scooter we signed a contract saying we'd return him to the breeder if we couldn't keep him for any reason.* I tried to locate the breeder but could only find a home address for them and no listing for their breeding name, makes me think they're backyard breeders.
> 
> I filed his papers with the AKC but haven't received them back yet. Is it safe for me to try to reach out to the breeder or can they try to claim ownership of Murphy?


*Mine in bold red*.

Were the original owners not supposed to return him to them? I would not stir this pot............If a problem comes up deal with it. Had you bought him from a breeder you would have wanted to know you were paying for a pup from a breeding with all health test but I can not see where this will serve anything.
You might buy a disposable phone and call them I would not want to let them know who or where I was. Just in case...


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

I agree with Sandi - I would leave it alone! I think you were lucky to even get papers and nothing in life is ever guaranteed.

Kathie


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Remember I ask to see his papers because I thought he looked so much like a friend’s champion male, which is so good looking. The breeders have bred long enough to have their kennel name on both the parents. If you want more info get a 3 generation pedigree from AKC. Then do the search. 

For people in the know ..... Does AKC notified the breeder when a puppy is registered? They did not when I was breeding but a lot of things have changed.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Ann, I don't know how far back the AKC papers go or if you got the extended pedigree, but I was able to find just about every one of Jackson's lines for several generations through the OFFA and European gallery. I could also see brothers/sisters, and comments about health problems, etc. And as already said, it still doesn't 100% mean anything anyway . . . health problems are always subject to popping up out of nowhere. 

If there is some problem with Murphy, the breeder, if responsible at all, would want to know and they could get angry at the first buyer. On the other hand, the breeder doesn't sound like they sold to a reputable person to begin with, so I'm assuming the breeder isn't very responsible and I would personally leave well enough alone. At least the first owner was with it enough to recognize they couldn't deal with Murphy and thank goodness got him to the Rescue. We'll keep our fingers crossed that his little muscle problems will resolve as he matures and has his hernia repaired. Jackson had a patella that was luxating a bit when he was very young, but it has corrected since.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I don't even care about the papers! I just registered him since the rescue gave them to us, doesn't matter a bit to me. I just wanted to see if I could get some health information on his parents and let them know he had a hernia. Some of the things I read said that dogs shouldn't be bred together if they produce puppies with hernias, even though it's quite minor. 

When I get his papers back I'll search on his parents and see what I can find. After that I'm done, I won't try to contact the breeder. I'm glad I mentioned it here and didn't just call impulsively.


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