# Ready for grooming tools advice



## heatherk

Cey has started to matt, if I don't brush him daily. He tolerates being brushed and de-matted but just barely. I knew when I first got him that my cheapo brush/comb/shampoo/conditioner products were only going to work for so long, and I guess we have finally reached the end of that...

I don't want to (and can't afford to) spend hundreds of dollars... what is the bare minimum of good grooming tools that I can get away with, at least until he starts to blow coat (at which point I know I will have to brush him probably twice a day or more lol)? I've heard Chris Christensen many times on this forum, what specific products do you all recommend for Cey (whose hair I am trying to grow long)?


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## jessegirl

Heather, how old is Cey now? Just curious. Rollie's had a few mats always on the rear (from sitting). We started bathing him weekly and brushing him every day or every-other-day, and that really helped. But I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and Rollie's nearly 5 months old so I'm curious as to when that will be. Right now his floof is ridiculous - ridiculously cute!


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## heatherk

jessegirl said:


> Heather, how old is Cey now? Just curious. Rollie's had a few mats always on the rear (from sitting). We started bathing him weekly and brushing him every day or every-other-day, and that really helped. But I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and Rollie's nearly 5 months old so I'm curious as to when that will be. Right now his floof is ridiculous - ridiculously cute!


"ridiculously cute" LOL  I know exactly what you mean!

Cey was born on December 22nd, so he is about 6 1/2 months old... most of his matts have been on his belly (under his harness) and weirdly enough, on his front knees. His behind gets tangled, but not especially matted per say.


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## krandall

heatherk said:


> Cey has started to matt, if I don't brush him daily. He tolerates being brushed and de-matted but just barely. I knew when I first got him that my cheapo brush/comb/shampoo/conditioner products were only going to work for so long, and I guess we have finally reached the end of that...
> 
> I don't want to (and can't afford to) spend hundreds of dollars... what is the bare minimum of good grooming tools that I can get away with, at least until he starts to blow coat (at which point I know I will have to brush him probably twice a day or more lol)? I've heard Chris Christensen many times on this forum, what specific products do you all recommend for Cey (whose hair I am trying to grow long)?


Many of us find that the CC #5 Butter Comb is our "workhorse" tool. This will probably be your most expensive tool. I think they run about $35 but they are WELL worth it. I was not a believer that a comb had to be expensive to be good, so I bought a number of "lesser" combs first. I'm sure I paid more, for more combs, before finally caving and buying the Butter Comb. There really IS a HUGE difference.

You will also need a good metal pin brush, even though most of the work is done with the comb. The "regular" CC pin brush is not too expensive, and I really like it. Lots of people use Madan brushes instead. They are a LITTLE less money, but I don't like them as much. The pins seem sharper on the ends, and Kodi finds the Madan brush less comfortable. I'm also losing pins faster. This happens with all the pin brushes, but my CC brushes are holding up better. CC offers several shapes and sizes, all about the same price. It just depends on what feels best in your hand. I have large and small oval brushes, but I know some people here swear by the oblong brushes.

Then get a small spray bottle at the pharmacy and make a solution of 1 part your regular conditioner to 9 parts water. This will be your regular grooming spray. Dampen his coat with it as you groom to keep from damaging the ends of the hair.

For mat removal, BY FAR my favorite trick is corn starch. Sprinkle some on the dry hair, rub it into the knot with your fingers, and then tease the mat apart with just a couple of tines of your comb.

Finally, they don't have to be special grooming shears, but you will find that occasionally, in spite of your best efforts, a mat will get too big to tease apart without causing the dog a lot of discomfort. In these cases, slide the scissors vertically through the mat, getting between the skin and the hair then make a few cuts in the same direction as the hair (NOT across the hair!!!). You should be able to remove the several smaller mats much more easily than one big one. Yes, you'll lose a little hair, but you will no matter what you do if you have a big mat like that. This way, you at least maintain your relationship with your dog!

Those are the tools I think are "must haves" then there are "good to haves"...

I also have the Butter Comb face comb, which has much finer spacing on a smaller comb. It's great for the face, but it's also great for grabbing those tiny little spider web knots, which look like nothing today, but will be the base of a huge mat tomorrow!

Most recently I purchased the CC wood pin brush. I LOVE this brush for every day grooming, but I don't think it would work very well for knot removal while blowing coat.

There are almost as many coat products as there are dogs, and some will work better on one type of coat than on another. A good place to start is BioGroom because they are made without harsh chemicals (coconut oil base) and are also on the less expensive end. My breeder uses them on her dogs and I'e used them on Kodi since I got him, and they do a beautiful job on his coat. I use Super White, but you won't need that. There are several other BioGroom shampoos to choose from though. I use BioGroom Silk conditioner, and that should work fine on any color dog.

When I got my CC wood pin brush, I got it as part of a promotional package, which included his "Spectrum Ten" shampoo and conditioner. They are OK, but they were a little heavy for Kodi's coat, and I'm sure, purchased separately, would be a lot more expensive than the BioGroom products. However, there was a third product in the package that I think I do like, and might work really well while a puppy is blowing coat. This is Spectrum Ten Hydro Pac. This is a very thick conditioner that you apply full strength, comb through the coat and leave on for at least 5 minutes. I tried this on Kodi last week, and his coat feels actually slippery. The comb just glides through his hair, even now, several days after his bath. I think it might be too much to use on Kodi's adult coat on a regular basis, but it might be PERFECT for taming that fuzzy baby fluff that causes all the mats.

A couple of final words of advice. I've always washed Kodi about once a week anyway, but I found that during blowing coat, I really had to step that up to no more than 5 days between baths. The cleaner I kept him, the less mats he developed. Also, if I combed him out thoroughly RIGHT before bed, he was in relatively good shape in the morning. If not, he would have developed several large mats during the night.

Oh, the joys of blowing coat!!! ound:


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## krandall

Also, Cey and Rollie are both a little on the young side for "true" blowing coat.:biggrin1: Sorry to disappoint you, gals!


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## heatherk

krandall said:


> Also, Cey and Rollie are both a little on the young side for "true" blowing coat.:biggrin1: Sorry to disappoint you, gals!


 I know he's not blowing coat yet, I still have that joy to look forward to! His hair is just long enough, and fine enough in certain areas, where my cheap comb and brush aren't quite up to the job...

Thanks for all of the great advice! Time for me to start shopping


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## heatherk

krandall said:


> ...
> 
> A couple of final words of advice. I've always washed Kodi about once a week anyway, but I found that during blowing coat, I really had to step that up to no more than 5 days between baths. The cleaner I kept him, the less mats he developed. ...:


Yes it probably doesn't help that I haven't bathed him recently. My daughter just left for the summer and I've never bathed him alone, and I am not looking forward to it - - not that I have a choice; there is no way he can go without a bath soon


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## krandall

heatherk said:


> Yes it probably doesn't help that I haven't bathed him recently. My daughter just left for the summer and I've never bathed him alone, and I am not looking forward to it - - not that I have a choice; there is no way he can go without a bath soon


Awww, you'll get used to it! Just remember how scary it was giving a BABY a bath the first time!!!:biggrin1:


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## lkwilson

Hi Heather, I'm in the same space with Coach right now. Came to our place in California where we have a large yard to run in versus the apartment walks. Oh my lord, Coach is getting full of mats but having a blast. He's 6 months and the hair is getting a bit long and messy and I'm not the best at keeping up with the grooming. Didn't really have to in Dallas.

I've been looking at the sierra cut thread and was thinking about tools so this is great timing.


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## Lizzie'sMom

My "workhorse" tool for Lizzie's mats is the #1 All Systems de matting comb. It has super wide teeth and works great. I use a spray I got at our local pet store. It is their house brand. I also have a CC 000 buttercomb I like. I use the CC 006 face and feet comb. I have a cheap brush and a Madan brush, but do not like brushes. I might buy a CC pin brush-I tried ordering the CC promotional pack Karen ordered, but was late to the party and it was sold out. I would recommend the de matting comb.


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## krandall

Lizzie'sMom said:


> My "workhorse" tool for Lizzie's mats is the #1 All Systems de matting comb. It has super wide teeth and works great.


You don't find that the teeth ar so wide spaced that knots slip through? I like the wide end of the Butter Comb to get started, but then I have to go to the narrow end or even the face comb because things just slip through the bigger spaced tines.

I agree with you, though, for the most part I only use brushes for two things. Quick fluff ups when I knw he's already combed through but I just want him to look nice, or else while I'm drying him. I like the wood pin brush for fluff ups, and the metal pin brush for drying.


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## Lizzie'sMom

krandall said:


> You don't find that the teeth ar so wide spaced that knots slip through? I like the wide end of the Butter Comb to get started, but then I have to go to the narrow end or even the face comb because things just slip through the bigger spaced tines.
> 
> I agree with you, though, for the most part I only use brushes for two things. Quick fluff ups when I knw he's already combed through but I just want him to look nice, or else while I'm drying him. I like the wood pin brush for fluff ups, and the metal pin brush for drying.


You would think that the mat would slip through the teeth, but it actually gently pulls the mat apart. Someone on the forum (the poster from Croatia??) recommended it and the groomer where I take Lizzie for nail trims. You work through the mat with the de matting comb to loosen them and then use the wider teeth of the CC comb to get them out all the way. There is less pulling and Lizzie tolerates it better.


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## HavaneseSoon

Keeping the belly hair short is great if you want to avoid a lot of mats and tangles on the belly area. The belly are and armpits are a very tender area. 

Keeping the pup bathed every 7-10 days with a good quality shampoo and conditioner. Clean hair does not seem to tangle as fast as dirty hair. 

Sometimes you have to work on tangles or brushing for a few minutes at a time and slowly lengthen the time until your pup gets use to the grooming. Don't forget...pulling tangles hurts. 

Havs need to get use to grooming before the dreaded "Blowing Coat" starts because you will spend more than an hour combing at times more than twice a day sometimes. The mats are very close to the skin and they will take time to remove. When the "Blowing Coat" starts you will want to pull your hair out!


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## motherslittlehelper

Am hoping to get down to the big dog show in Portland coming up this month. Have a list going of things to look at. Feel with two dogs now to groom, I can justify the acquisition of a few more grooming tools/equipment!! :biggrin1:

Yi, Yi, Yi - I have been very busy doing yard work the past week or so, stopping mostly only to take the boys out to play in their play area a few times a day to keep them active and tired!  But, I have been a bit neglectful about combing Augie out as well as I should have been and with the roughhousing with Finn, have I ever got myself a mess to deal with. Thank goodness, Augie is at an age now where he tolerates the combing and brushing well!! Think we are getting closer to a trim job! Finn not enjoying the grooming process so much. Although he doesn't do too badly for baths. Went and looked at a portable laundry tub with legs and I think it will fit in the bathtub that I use for bathing the boys. It isn't too expensive, so that is going to make its way home soon.


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## heatherk

motherslittlehelper said:


> Am hoping to get down to the big dog show in Portland coming up this month. Have a list going of things to look at. Feel with two dogs now to groom, I can justify the acquisition of a few more grooming tools/equipment!! :biggrin1:
> 
> Yi, Yi, Yi - I have been very busy doing yard work the past week or so, stopping mostly only to take the boys out to play in their play area a few times a day to keep them active and tired!  But, I have been a bit neglectful about combing Augie out as well as I should have been and with the roughhousing with Finn, have I ever got myself a mess to deal with. Thank goodness, Augie is at an age now where he tolerates the combing and brushing well!! Think we are getting closer to a trim job! Finn not enjoying the grooming process so much. Although he doesn't do too badly for baths. Went and looked at a portable laundry tub with legs and I think it will fit in the bathtub that I use for bathing the boys. It isn't too expensive, so that is going to make its way home soon.


Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know about that show but maybe I will go as well! What is the protocol? Will you be bringing your dogs? it says, "ONLY 'SHOW ENTRY" DOGS ALLOWED INSIDE HALLS No Public Dogs/Pets Please"? Sorry, I've never gone to a dog show before, but I'd like to show Ceylon eventually...


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## krandall

heatherk said:


> Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know about that show but maybe I will go as well! What is the protocol? Will you be bringing your dogs? it says, "ONLY 'SHOW ENTRY" DOGS ALLOWED INSIDE HALLS No Public Dogs/Pets Please"? Sorry, I've never gone to a dog show before, but I'd like to show Ceylon eventually...


Most shows only allow dogs who are entered.


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## jessegirl

krandall said:


> Awww, you'll get used to it! Just remember how scary it was giving a BABY a bath the first time!!!:biggrin1:


I'm STILL traumatized by Rollie's first bath experience!


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## motherslittlehelper

Heather, I think Karen is probably right on this one as well. I have only been to a couple of shows and I didn't take Augie, so I really didn't pay a whole lot of attention to that part. I will try to remember to ask that question at class tonight as I think someone there is running her dog in Rally. With all the dogs coming and going, as this is quite a large show I believe, I am not sure how they keep track of who comes and goes. I would love to watch some Rally and cruise the vendors and watch Havanese conformation, of course!

Jessica - I recall Augie's first bath as well. The WHOLE kitchen, Augie and I were soaked by the time we got through. I thought he was going to end up jumping onto the floor from the counter. While he had more space to try to get away from me, it was definitely better in the bathtub! I didn't even try Finn in the kitchen sink. And his first bath went pretty well. Most of the water stayed in the tub! I do want to purchase the portable laundry sink and place in there. I think that might be easier and keep them corralled better. Augie's baths made a huge jump for the better the summer when he was a puppy and we let him play in the hose outside. After that, he wasn't nearly as afraid.


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## atsilvers27

I agree with everyone. If you're trying to grow a long coat there is no way around having good quality tools. I've found that groomers who have cheap brushes and combs have to replace them often. Cheap combs can rust, bend and teeth can fall out, not including the lower quality materials they are made with make combing more difficult and can damage the coat. As everyone has said, and as a groomer myself, you MUST have these basics: greyhound comb (half fine half medium) pin brush, de matter, detangling spray, all of high quality or you risk damaging coat or making the process more uncomfortable for both than necessary.

Two important points:

1) Many owners make the mistake of bathing a dog first and then brushing. Unless your dog is on a weekly grooming routine and you know there are no mats, you absolutely need to make sure there are no tangles in the coat or it will get worse after the bath and you could have a completely preventable problem on your hands. Use your hair dryer (on low heat or no heat) to see where the mats are on your dog. All of the hairs should appear perfectly straight and separate out from where the air is blowing. Where you see clumps, balls or hair not separating is where you should work on (Note, on a wet dog, the hair has to dry first before it separates). For me this is the best method of seeing where the mats are on a long coated dog. 

2) Make sure you comb from the skin out. Don't just take the comb or brush and run it over the top of your dog, you have to get into the coat and work every square inch of it. On puppies it's very easy to take care of, but then again I do see a lot of clients who end up having to completely shave their 5 month old puppy.


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## heatherk

atsilvers27 said:


> I agree with everyone. If you're trying to grow a long coat there is no way around having good quality tools. I've found that groomers who have cheap brushes and combs have to replace them often. Cheap combs can rust, bend and teeth can fall out, not including the lower quality materials they are made with make combing more difficult and can damage the coat. As everyone has said, and as a groomer myself, you MUST have these basics: greyhound comb (half fine half medium) pin brush, de matter, detangling spray, all of high quality or you risk damaging coat or making the process more uncomfortable for both than necessary.
> 
> Two important points:
> 
> 1) Many owners make the mistake of bathing a dog first and then brushing. Unless your dog is on a weekly grooming routine and you know there are no mats, you absolutely need to make sure there are no tangles in the coat or it will get worse after the bath and you could have a completely preventable problem on your hands. Use your hair dryer (on low heat or no heat) to see where the mats are on your dog. All of the hairs should appear perfectly straight and separate out from where the air is blowing. Where you see clumps, balls or hair not separating is where you should work on (Note, on a wet dog, the hair has to dry first before it separates). For me this is the best method of seeing where the mats are on a long coated dog.
> 
> 2) Make sure you comb from the skin out. Don't just take the comb or brush and run it over the top of your dog, you have to get into the coat and work every square inch of it. On puppies it's very easy to take care of, but then again I do see a lot of clients who end up having to completely shave their 5 month old puppy.


CC Comb, pin brush, and bathing products are on their way to me 

Thanks for the advice. I knew not to bath him uncombed, but not about the hairdrying trick!


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## heatherk

krandall said:


> Awww, you'll get used to it! Just remember how scary it was giving a BABY a bath the first time!!!:biggrin1:


Yes, well, my baby at least kindof liked baths - the same can't exactly be said of Cey! (I certainly never had to tie my daughter to the bath to keep her in LOL!)

I was actually pretty terrified of trying to give Cey a bath by myself, and so I hadn't until tonight. Oh I've been diligent about keeping him brushed and combed and tangle free and such, but I kept putting off giving him a bath. Then I arrived home earlier and not only had he made a mess on the carpet, but half of it was still stuck in his fur all the freakin way down his paws lol. I am still not sure what caused it, it's been a while since I had to give him a butt bath and it was NEVER before that bad. Of course he needed out to go pee when I got home, and then while he was out, he also pooped. Well, I was getting ready to give him butt bath and then I knew the second I saw him squat that all of it was going to be stuck because the previous mess was so bad, and I was just cringing! Lol...

So, he wasn't exactly brushed completely before his bath but I had combed him out thoroughly last night, so I went ahead and gave him a full bath. And he still hated it overall but he kept his tail up longer than before, and would still wag it at me when I kissed him. And although we still made a minor flood in the kitchen (he likes to keep his front paws up on the edge of the sink, which means I can't wet or rinse his head, neck, or shoulders without water getting everywhere but in the sink - but of course I am not going to force him down, I can clean up the water so I let him do what he is comfortable with as long as most of him is in the sink lol), but overall he was fine. I'm not really sure why I was so unwilling to bathe him myself, since he has been getting regular baths every week or every other week, so its not like he isn't used to it, even if he doesn't really like it, but, I was. Probably just because I had never ever done it by myself before, I guess. Well, no longer . I guess its a good thing he had the worst need ever for a butt bath (I literally had to squeeze his latest poop out of his fur, it was 100% caught up in the previous mess lol - probably TMI I know, but, it was BAD!) because it forced me to bathe him, and to realize it wasn't that bad - so, weekly baths, here we come again


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## heatherk

And, of course right after the bath last night, the Chris Christensen tools arrived this morning. So I also went out and bought higher-quality shampoo and conditioner for the next time I bathe Cey, and also a conditioning spritz spray (all of them Avoderm brand - I looked at the BioGroom products at the store that I went to but the Avoderm looked better for what I think I need) on the way home tonight, and I used the conditioning spray and the CC brush and comb on Cey just a bit ago - and, O.M.F.G.

I've never liked brushing or combing Cey damp - every single time I've tried it before, his hair just simply WILL NOT comb. No matter how long I try, or what products I've used to dampen his hair. The only way I could get him brushed or combed before was if he was completely dry, and I've hated that, because I knew that I was damaging his hair by combing or brushing it dry, but, it really was the only way I could get it done. Damp or wet, his hair would tangle horribly, and no matter how long I tried with the cheap brush and comb that I had, it would never, *ever *brush smoothly when damp. But earlier tonight, I had my new conditioning spray and I wanted to see if it would work, so I tried it. Well, at first, even using the new CC tools, I was about ready to give up - at first, his hair would NOT comb smoothly with the spray in it, no matter what I did. And then, suddenly, IT DID. There was quite a bit of fur in the comb by the time it did, but, omg, once it started to comb smoothly, it was just freaking BEAUTIFUL. I could comb it from ANY direction and it would comb like butter!, something that I have NEVER seen his hair do!!!

It still wasn't easy, given that he needed a real combing all over with a high quality comb - I had to go over his entire body part by part, spraying and brushing and combing and combing and combing to make it reach the point of compliance. I think it took over 2 hours, and by the time I was done I had a very sizable amount of fur that I had combed out of his hair - and this was only a day after bathing and combing him what I thought was 'thoroughly' with my cheapo comb! But now that he is combed thoroughly *for real* (what I thought I was doing before, but apparently I wasn't, and the difference was the comb I was using, not me or what I sprayed on him or anything) WOW. What a difference!!!!!!!

*Thank you* to everybody who recommended the CC tools to me. Just as I think Karen said, I also initially thought that spending mega bucks on a comb was silly - but, it's not. In fact, having my CC comb now and knowing what a difference it makes, I would pay much more for it than I did. I've been combing and brushing Ceylon's hair since the day I got him, but, it has NEVER been this soft, smooth, and easy to comb through. Thanks again everybody, and thanks Chris Christensen


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

I was asked by another breeder to bring my new dog to the shows so they could "see" her...no way...first I would worry the whole time about what I would be exposing her to and second...I would never enjoy the show...
Karen, do you think CC will offer that package again? Would love to have that..lol..day late, dollar short.


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## krandall

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> I was asked by another breeder to bring my new dog to the shows so they could "see" her...no way...first I would worry the whole time about what I would be exposing her to and second...I would never enjoy the show...
> Karen, do you think CC will offer that package again? Would love to have that..lol..day late, dollar short.


I have no idea... I didn't know about the last package offer until someone posted it here!

I wouldn't worry TOO much about taking her to shows. Keep her form touching noses with other dog's, and don't let her sniff poop left on the ground. But, in general, I think show people take really good care of their dog's... I think you're a lot safer there than in a city park, or worse, Petsmart!


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## krandall

heatherk said:


> *Thank you* to everybody who recommended the CC tools to me. Just as I think Karen said, I also initially thought that spending mega bucks on a comb was silly - but, it's not. In fact, having my CC comb now and knowing what a difference it makes, I would pay much more for it than I did. I've been combing and brushing Ceylon's hair since the day I got him, but, it has NEVER been this soft, smooth, and easy to comb through. Thanks again everybody, and thanks Chris Christensen


As another plug for CC... A few months after I got my first comb, one of the teeth fell out while I was grooming Kodi. I didn't pull hard... It just fell out. I e-mailed them and told them what had happened... The sent me a new comb the next day!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Thanks Karen, I know most show people take great care of their dogs..I don't think I would enjoy worrying about her the whole time though...I like to walk around and look at the dogs and I am sure she would want to be in the middle of everything...this is when I would need a stroller....


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## krandall

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Thanks Karen, I know most show people take great care of their dogs..I don't think I would enjoy worrying about her the whole time though...I like to walk around and look at the dogs and I am sure she would want to be in the middle of everything...this is when I would need a stroller....


That was my thought when I first started reading your post!:biggrin1:


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

krandall said:


> That was my thought when I first started reading your post!:biggrin1:


Has anyone purchased a stroller which will hold two dogs? How do you like it? Once thing I have learned is two dogs think the same.. SW did not like lettuce until SHE decided it was good...and if I put one in the stroller the other is going to be standing there with paws up wanting to go...lol


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## StarrLhasa

Hi, Linda:

Which tub did you look at? Did you see either of these dog bath systems? I don't know if the legs will fit into your tub, though.

Here are the lonks to Costco's website:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...=1&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1


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## motherslittlehelper

Yes, Starr, I think the footprints on those are too large. This is the one I ended up getting. It is still sitting in the laundry room and I haven't even tried it as I had just given Augie a bath before DH picked it up for me. Guess I should check it out in case I have to return it, huh?  A stopper didn't come with it, so I need to look for one that will fit. There is a kind of shelf on the back side of it - that is the only part I am concerned about - whether it will hit the wall. The feet should fit fine.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202505372/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053http://


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## StarrLhasa

Oh, I see it. it's something I need for my laundry [and dog washing], but there is no room for a laundry sink unfortunately.

I have been using the bathtub. In order to keep them in it as well as the bath water, I bought a bathing restraint (a grooming loop) which uses a rubber suction cup attached to the side of the tub. Of course, I need to use a garden kneeling pad for me or my knees would be in trouble.


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## Kathie

Starr, someone on the forum mentioned sitting on the edge of the bathtub with your feet inside to bathe your dogs. I tried it with Abby (not McGee yet) and it worked very well and not near the strain on the back or knees! We have a hose on our shower so I used that, too and it did a great job.

BTW, I use a Madan brush and have really liked it. The comb does the real work, though. We have a Bamboo brand comb with rolling teeth that works well but when we find a tangle I use a finer toothed comb to work it out. If you hold the top edge of the comb downward through a big mat it will also work it out (losing a little hair) but I like that approach better than scissors. The comb I use for the mats is one made by Hartz that is so old I don't remember what dog I had when I got it - probably when things were better-made than they are these days!!!

I use the Madan brush just for fluffing on Abby but use it on McGee everyday. It takes care of everything he needs so far and he loves it! When I first tried grooming him I used a comb and he he hated it and kept biting at it - with the brush he will lay across my lap and enjoy! Don't want to forget the flea comb that I use for faces but also on the tiny fuzz balls that can't seem to be caught with a regular comb. Believe me, when we groom we are armed for battle.....LOL My DH has been doing Abby for a few months now and I only assist when there is a mat. That is a big help with my RA and my shoulders thank him!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Kathie said:


> Starr, someone on the forum mentioned sitting on the edge of the bathtub with your feet inside to bathe your dogs. I tried it with Abby (not McGee yet) and it worked very well and not near the strain on the back or knees! We have a hose on our shower so I used that, too and it did a great job.
> 
> BTW, I use a Madan brush and have really liked it. The comb does the real work, though. We have a Bamboo brand comb with rolling teeth that works well but when we find a tangle I use a finer toothed comb to work it out. If you hold the top edge of the comb downward through a big mat it will also work it out (losing a little hair) but I like that approach better than scissors. The comb I use for the mats is one made by Hartz that is so old I don't remember what dog I had when I got it - probably when things were better-made than they are these days!!!
> 
> I use the Madan brush just for fluffing on Abby but use it on McGee everyday. It takes care of everything he needs so far and he loves it! When I first tried grooming him I used a comb and he he hated it and kept biting at it - with the brush he will lay across my lap and enjoy! Don't want to forget the flea comb that I use for faces but also on the tiny fuzz balls that can't seem to be caught with a regular comb. Believe me, when we groom we are armed for battle.....LOL My DH has been doing Abby for a few months now and I only assist when there is a mat. That is a big help with my RA and my shoulders thank him!


Oh Kathie, why did I now know this yesterday...I bathed both Sir Winston and Lady Mia in the tub...it is hard on the knees...
I am not sure he will have any hair left. Playing is hard on the coat, but they love playing so much, we will just muddle through..whatever...fun is more important in my house...after all I am not showing..but I love long coats..mine will just be a little straggley...lol.


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## motherslittlehelper

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Oh Kathie, why did I now know this yesterday...I bathed both Sir Winston and Lady Mia in the tub...it is hard on the knees...
> I am not sure he will have any hair left. Playing is hard on the coat, but they love playing so much, we will just muddle through..whatever...fun is more important in my house...after all I am not showing..but I love long coats..mine will just be a little straggley...lol.


Augie's coat has taken a real beating since Finn arrived on the scene. But you are right, playing and having fun with each other is far more important than keeping the coat beautiful! If we have to, we will give him a short 'do. But it seems as we get as much matting as when he has worn a harness.

Flynn, if sitting on the tub doesn't work, have you tried using the garden kneeling pads as Starr mentioned? I use one outside in the yard all the time but never thought about using one for bathing the boys. I am sure hoping my laundry tub affair works.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

motherslittlehelper said:


> Augie's coat has taken a real beating since Finn arrived on the scene. But you are right, playing and having fun with each other is far more important than keeping the coat beautiful! If we have to, we will give him a short 'do. But it seems as we get as much matting as when he has worn a harness.
> 
> Flynn, if sitting on the tub doesn't work, have you tried using the garden kneeling pads as Starr mentioned? I use one outside in the yard all the time but never thought about using one for bathing the boys. I am sure hoping my laundry tub affair works.


Thanks Linda, I have the sliding doors on the tub so it is uncomfortable, I probably need the pad I will look for it...any garden store??? I learn so much on the forum..


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## motherslittlehelper

Yes, you should be able to find them in any store that has a gardening section. I can't imagine trying to maneuver around sliding doors on a tub. I think I would just climb in with them!! :biggrin1:


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Yes, actually Linda, I took down the doors but the track is still on the edge of the tub..that smarts I will say!!! But SW is way too big for the kitchen sink...even a laundry sink I think...I like to fill the tub so I get his coat really floating...but the rinsing takes a while...so far he hasn't tried to swim...but he hates the sound of the running water..lol.


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## StarrLhasa

Kathie said:


> Starr, someone on the forum mentioned sitting on the edge of the bathtub with your feet inside to bathe your dogs. I tried it with Abby (not McGee yet) and it worked very well and not near the strain on the back or knees! We have a hose on our shower so I used that, too and it did a great job.


Kathy:

Thanks for the tip. I'll try it next time.


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## heatherk

FYI, I tried the cornstarch trick for matts and it worked but I absolutely cannot stand the feel of it (I'm funny with some things like that, pure cotton give me the shivers too). So I tried applying the CC hydropac 10 deep conditioner on Cey's matts the other night and it worked wonderfully! Just a couple of drops of conditioner rubbed directly into the matt really helped with loosening it up and then the hair didn't seem to break as much as with the cornstarch either...


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## Lizzie'sMom

I don't like the cornstarch either. Just feels creepy! I have a spray that I use and it works well. I really like my #1 all systems dematting comb. I know people say you don't need one, but it has been very helpful to me. I also have great success after a bath. The hair is all conditioned and I can get Lizzie mat free before blow drying.


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## motherslittlehelper

I tried out my new laundry tub this morning to give Finn a bath. It works pretty well and fits quite solidly in our bathtub. Finn kept trying to climb on me so I ended up pretty wet. Also, I had to rest my knees a bit on the tub for balance, so don't know how that would feel for someone with bad knees. We added a plastic tube onto the drain underneath so it would carry the water down closer to the floor of the bathtub, rather than just letting it splash. 

I am also thinking, if I can find a drain stopper, it would require a lot less conditioner than a bathtub to do the floating the coat thing. The tub is 11.5 inches deep.

I am guessing Finn is a good 10 lbs. by now and he fit easily in the tub. Didn't get a picture of Finn - I was afraid he might try to hop out if I let go of him. Haven't tried it with Augie yet.

For wintertime Rally classes, we train in a barn with a sand floor. When I bring Augie home, I usually dip his feet in a pan of water to get the bulk of the sand out of his hair so it doesn't go down the drain. I am thinking maybe I could use a rubber band and attach old pantyhose to the bottom of the drain tube on this laundry sink to catch the sand? Or does anyone have a better idea?

I did take some measurements; if anyone is interested, I can post them.


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## krandall

That's cool, Linda! Do you have to take this in and out of the tub, or is this an extra bathroom? If you have to take it in and out, where do you store it? It looks big!


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## HavaneseSoon

Do you stand in the tub? Or do you lend over?


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## motherslittlehelper

Karen, I wish I could take credit for the idea, but shortly after I joined the forum, someone (and I can't remember who it was and I haven't found the old photos or posts) posted photos of a laundry tub they had placed in a shower and I thought at the time it was a great idea and wondered if I could find a tub that would fit in our bathtub.

I put this in the downstairs bathroom - the tub there is used for washing the UgoDog, bird cages, and giving the dogs baths. That bathroom is VERY small, but I think there is room to set it out of the tub when I do the bird cages; otherwise, I am just going to leave it there. If I have special guests over (where it would look tacky), I may take it out  , but we don't get too 'uppity' around here! :biggrin1: I could set it in a corner in the laundry room or out in the garage - if I rearrange a few things. It must be the angle I took it, but in the photo it seems larger than it really is. It is 25 inches across the top, front to back, including the shelf; 24 inches across top side to side. It stands 33 inches tall. The bottom of the laundry tub is a bit smaller, 26 inches on the diagonal, than the top, 28 inches on the diagonal. The bottom foot print was 19 inches side to side, 17 inches front to back, and one also would have to take into account the 'ledge' at the top that set it away from the back of the tub a bit. In our case, the ledge rests against the wall and makes it fit nice and solid. And is a great place for setting the shampoo. And the legs are plastic too, so it shouldn't scratch things. And it was less than $50, I believe.

Linda, it would be nice if I could 'kick' toe space into the bottom of the tub.  I didn't have to lean too far. I found myself kind of resting my knees against the top edge of the tub. For someone with bad knees, not sure how that would feel. I wasn't using any padding, such as a towel or bathmat, and it didn't bother me. I think it would also work to have one foot in the bathtub and one on the floor and kind of stand at the corner, probably at the left side of it so you could easily reach the faucet - you would want to be sure to have a bathmat or something on the floor so you wouldn't slip when you stepped out of the tub and your foot was wet. I usually wear a t-shirt and shorts when I bathe the dogs, because I get pretty wet and I can't stand to be in wet clothes.


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## Carefulove

I have a sink exactly like that one in my laundry room and that is where Bumi takes his baths. I then dry and comb him on top of the washer or dryer since it is tall enough and I do not have to bend down.
I just want to buy a shower head like that to install to faucet. Don't they sell them at a dog supply store?


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## motherslittlehelper

I don't know about a dog supply store. This one probably came from Home Depot, Wal Mart, Target or a similar type store. I would like to get one that has a more flexible tubing on it. This one is a bit stiff - we have had it a long time - and it wanted to whip around and spray me in the face. The bathroom I have this in is right next to the laundry room. I sure would like to remodel the whole area and set up a dog grooming station since I have two dogs now, but doubt it will ever happen. I may have to clean off the top of my dryer and try setting up something there....... that will be the next project to work on!


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## krandall

motherslittlehelper said:


> I don't know about a dog supply store. This one probably came from Home Depot, Wal Mart, Target or a similar type store. I would like to get one that has a more flexible tubing on it. This one is a bit stiff - we have had it a long time - and it wanted to whip around and spray me in the face. The bathroom I have this in is right next to the laundry room. I sure would like to remodel the whole area and set up a dog grooming station since I have two dogs now, but doubt it will ever happen. I may have to clean off the top of my dryer and try setting up something there....... that will be the next project to work on!


We only have 1 1/2 baths, though we are currently in the middle of a BIG construction project, which will add another bathroom. But with my boys still at home, even with the new master bathroom, we couldn't dedicate the tub in the old bathroom to dog washing duty. And since the tub is on the second floor, storing the thing when I WASN'T washing Kodi would be problematic.

Like Zuri, I dry and groom Kodi on the washer in our laundry room/1/2 bath. But there is just an ordinary bathroom sink in there, not big enough for even a small Hav! (and no space for a bigger sink) Fortunately, I have a pretty big kitchen sink, so I wash him there. But enough depth to float his coat would be nice. He CAN fit entirely in the sink, but he tends to stand with his front feet on the divider between the two sides. MOST of the water ends up back in the sink, and I put a Shamwow across the front edge of the sink to catch the overflow.

A dedicated grooming space would be awesome, but considering what we're paying for the addition we're doing, it just wasn't in the cards. (I could sure use it this summer with all this construction going on, though!!!)


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## motherslittlehelper

My kitchen sink is just not good for bathing the dogs, not nearly big enough, and the sprayer in there has never worked well, even though a new one was put in. The downstairs tub has sure come in handy for the birds and the dogs though. I don't know what I would have done without it since I don't have a sink in the laundry room. I want to try the washer/dryer grooming station idea - I had seen your photos previously. I need to get better light in my laundry room. And I keep forgetting the Shamwow idea and I have a box of them sitting here - I just don't remember! :frusty:


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## TilliesMom

this is a very interesting thread!
I just wanted to pop in with my bath set up!
I actually got a Martha Stewart doggie bathtub on CLEARANCE for $14 back in October, it fits perfectly on our bathroom counter... and I do it old school, using a big plastic cup to water and rinse her! LOL and then I set her up to blowdry on the kitchen counter... ha ha we have a tiny house!!


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## Becky Chittenden

I have a similar tub to Linda's. I set it up in the bathtub and have a hand held shower massage there. I'm short, about 5'3" and it is just the right hight for me. I dry and brush on a grooming table (I always have one set up in our I bought the tub at Home Depot for about $50 and it is worth every penny.


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## HavaneseSoon

I bathe the boys in the kitchen sink. When it was time to get a new faucet, we got a new sink at the same time. We have a two basin sink, but one is bigger than the other and that is the side I bathe the boys. 

The boys always stand on the divider between the basins. 

So....if you are due for another kitchen sink, make sure you get one side bigger than the other. It is a great height for bathing.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Has anyone used Ziggy's pet products? They have a shampoo which is 16 ozs, and you dilute 50/50. If you order now, you get a 16 oz conditioner free.
I read it on a post by Ann Adams and thought I would share here. The products are all cruelty free. www.ziggyspetproducts.com.
I don't have a favorite shampoo yet.


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## motherslittlehelper

Finally bathed Augie in the portable laundry tub that I placed in the bath tub that I wrote about earlier in this thread. It worked GREAT! Why didn't I do this sooner???! :frusty: Better late than never, I guess. Here are a few pictures so you can see how he fit in it. He is close to 13 lbs. 

I also used my hair conditioner on him as I have liked it so well for years for my own hair and I don't use very much so tried it on him. I will be curious to see how his hair is in a few days, as I have NEVER had an easier time combing him out after a bath than I did this time after using it. It is also very low in fragrance. I used his Pure Paws shampoo first and then the ISO Hydraconditioner. Of course, maybe it was so easy to comb out because he has so much less hair these days, thanks to his little terror of a brother!


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## heatherk

motherslittlehelper said:


> Finally bathed Augie in the portable laundry tub that I placed in the bath tub that I wrote about earlier in this thread. It worked GREAT! Why didn't I do this sooner???! :frusty: Better late than never, I guess. Here are a few pictures so you can see how he fit in it. He is close to 13 lbs.
> 
> I also used my hair conditioner on him as I have liked it so well for years for my own hair and I don't use very much so tried it on him. I will be curious to see how his hair is in a few days, as I have NEVER had an easier time combing him out after a bath than I did this time after using it. It is also very low in fragrance. I used his Pure Paws shampoo first and then the ISO Hydraconditioner. Of course, maybe it was so easy to comb out because he has so much less hair these days, thanks to his little terror of a brother!


Aw sooo cute! Augie still has much more/longer hair than for instance Ceylon - Augie doesnt have that drowned-rat look that cey gets in the bath, just a wet-dog look lol. Thanks for the pics! I don't currently have a tub so cey just goes in the sink for now, but he still fits and he is minding it less and less these days. Just the other day I had to give him a dreaded butt-bath so I picked him up carefully outside, deposited him in the sink, put on a rubber glove, got the sprayer water to the right temp, and did a quick wash shampoo and rinse of his behind. Then I turned the water off and he gave me the most quizzical look, as if to say, "that's IT mama?" Lol...


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