# Need advice about discipline



## Atomickittyn (Aug 25, 2007)

I need some advice about how to discipline Yoyo.

Just to give you some background, when I walk Yoyo for longer than he wants to, he starts to jump up, growl, and bite the leash. Today, we were walking across the intersection when he started to do all of the above and I wasn't able to talk him down. What I did was go to a quiet area just off the intersection, sat down, and made him sit (which he didn't want to do, I had to push his bum down and he was resistant the whole time). We sat there for 10 minutes just staring at each other, and he was looking at me quietly with his ears back. Eventually we started walking again but I kept him on a very short leash and didn't let him go anywhere further than right beside me.

Now my question is how in the world am I supposed to discipline this behaviour? Perhaps I did walk him too long (about 40 minutes) but I know that he is capable of walking much longer. I'm so frustrated at literally at the end of my leash. Any advice would be welcome.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I think you need to worry less about disciplining him, and work on developing a better relationship with him. You want him to get to the point that he WANTS to work with you, not have to "make" him do what you want. Please find a positive-based trainer in your area to help you.

In the mean time, if he balks at a 40 minute walk, take him on lots of 30 minute walks, making it as much fun as you possibly can. Talk to him, praise him lots, give him small treats when he is walking brightly and happily at your side. Stop for breaks now and then to let him sniff around a bit, then call his name. If he even LOOKS at you, tell him how great he is and give him a treat. If he doesn't look at you, don't do anything negative, but go to HIM, and say his name while handing him the treat, then resume your walk. It may take some time, but with patience and kindness, he will start to look forward to walking and working with you. 

Discipline or punish him, and he will shut down and have less and less interest in doing what you want. You will need to get more and more aggressive with your "corrections". I'm sure that what you want is a fun, loving relationship with your fluffy puppy, and kindness and positive training methods are the way to get there.


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## Atomickittyn (Aug 25, 2007)

Maybe the type of relationship that I have with him is not one of him considering me in the more dominant role, but perhaps as him being more dominant. He is extremely affectionate and attached to me, but I've read that this doesn't necessarily mean that he respects me as a leader.

I do appreciate the things that you wrote, especially in the 2nd paragraph, it was extremely helpful. I will try those techniques and hopefully it will be effective. You're right about the length of the walks, perhaps I have to keep them short and frequent rather than long less frequent. I know that that is my fault for not being observant.

Thanks again.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

I don't think it has much of anything to do with who is 'dominant' - that is mostly a myth, especially for people-oriented dogs such as Havs. How old is Yoyo? I know that Ceylon was impossible to walk for any length of time as a younger puppy. It took a lot of work (treats, VERY small corrections on occasion, lots of 'fun time' and most of all, persistence) to get him to walk 'nicely' on the leash. Also, even now, whenever I take him for a walk, I take care to make it 'fun' for him; I let him stop and sniff and mark, etc. quite often during a walk. If I am walking somewhere just for myself but bringing him, I find it easier to bring along a cloth shopping-type bag to carry him in eventually if I cannot stop to take the time to let him do his own thing periodically (or, if we are in a high-distraction area). He loves being carried in the bag and will climb in on his own, as long as I hold him and the bag such that he can still see everything going on.

As Karen said, short and frequent, and praise vs. discipline for sure, is better if he is having trouble walking with you, at least for now


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## Atomickittyn (Aug 25, 2007)

He is 4.5 years old. 

I do let him wander and sniff and mark all the time when we're walking and eventually at the end of the walk he walks nicely beside me all on his own. The only time that he misbehaves is when the walks are apparently too long, otherwise I never have a problem with him. I guess the solution is keep the walks shorter and more frequent.


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## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

i just took oreo for a 45 min walk down robson street and on burrard...he was so pooped when he got back to the car.

he's only about 3 1/2 months but i want him to get used to cars and people.

he walks by my side like a champ.

hmmm...do you think yoyo was thirsty on that long of a walk, that why he/she was cting up?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Atomickittyn said:


> Maybe the type of relationship that I have with him is not one of him considering me in the more dominant role, but perhaps as him being more dominant. He is extremely affectionate and attached to me, but I've read that this doesn't necessarily mean that he respects me as a leader.
> 
> I do appreciate the things that you wrote, especially in the 2nd paragraph, it was extremely helpful. I will try those techniques and hopefully it will be effective. You're right about the length of the walks, perhaps I have to keep them short and frequent rather than long less frequent. I know that that is my fault for not being observant.
> 
> Thanks again.


As Heatherk posted, the "dominance" myth about dogs is just that. It doesn't have any basis in current behavioral science. It's wonderful that your guy is affecrionate and attached to you, but you are clearly not meeting his needs, nor conveying your own in at least this situation.

There is no need to keep your walks short forever, unless Yoyo has a physical problem of some sort. (something you may want to check out). There is no reason a healthy, well conditioned Hav can't walk briskly and happily at their owner's side for a couple of hours if they get used to it slowly, understand the program and look forward to it with enjoyment. Kodi regularly walks for at least an hour with me, and it is a brisk, loose leash by my side walk, without a lot of dawdling, sniffing and NO marking. (I don't allow marking, but that is each owner's choice). He does have breaks, both for drinks and for fun off leash. I know that not all dogs are trustworthy off leash, and not all people have access to areas where they can allow their dogs off leash regularly on walks. So in these cases, perhaps intermittent places where the dog is allowed to sniff and wander at will can suffice.

But Yoyo is trying to communicate SOMETHING to you about his needs when he jumps and bites at the leash, and it is not dominance.


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## Atomickittyn (Aug 25, 2007)

I don't think he was thirsty because when we got home he didn't drink any water.

I think he's trying to tell me "I don't want to walk anymore" because it's always at the end of the "longer" walks, never during the short ones.


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## Atomickittyn (Aug 25, 2007)

So if I want to go on longer walks, should I be rewarding him with treats every once in awhile?


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## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

It seems to me the trick is to work him past this point gradually. So you have to figure out how to keep him going at that moment that he puts his paw down and refuses to go on. THEN, get him to go just a few more minutes and start home. And, on the next walks, you can start adding minutes gradually. The problem is that, at that face-down moment, nothing is being accomplished. You can't win a face-down.

So, if you can read him and determine at what point he seems to be preparing for a show down, you can head him off with a little play time or a short water stop and a treat and then go on as if you expected him to walk as usual. You may have to reward him for the extra effort, but, the good thing is -- rewards get responses!

Baxter is still under a year, and we've been lengthening out his walks gradually. He will start to peter out, and we try any number of tricks -- pauses, treats, letting him run a bit -- to keep him going. Last time, though, he just put his front paws up on my son's legs as if to say, "no more." My son picked him up and carried him the last little bit home. We didn't make a big deal about it, and we didn't do it the next time (he didn't ask).


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## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

We reward Baxter with a "good walking!" every time he's bouncing happily on the leash. I'm sure people think we're nuts, but he loves it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Atomickittyn said:


> So if I want to go on longer walks, should I be rewarding him with treats every once in awhile?


You should be working on making going for walks with you the most fun thing he could ever do. Part of that can be giving him small treats for good behavior.


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