# Chocolate Havanese - Search for New Puppy



## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

First, a big thank you to everyone on this forum for all of your help. 

Our buddy Coco past away in May at 11 years 6 months old. We are definitely getting another Hav and searching for the breeders who have healthy puppies. I thought color was not important at first and I know we do not want to search for Coco's twin but we decided we love the brown nose and amber/brown eyes. Also, we would prefer a bigger Hav at about 15lbs and the curly coat is great. We always kept Coco in a puppy cut.

So all of you Chocolate Hav owners please help me in my search. If you know a breeder with great attention to healthy breeding, please post here or to us via private message. 

Thank you.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

This is our little chocolate girl Truffles Halloween morning


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## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

*Truffles - Chocolate*

Truffles is an absolute doll. Thank you for your responses to me privately and on this forum. It is much appreciated. Truffles could be my Coco's sister.

I hope other Chocolate owners respond. I especially interested in the health history.
Thank you.


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## AnnaM (Jun 2, 2012)

I have a chocolate Irish pied too. Sorry, this is the only picture I have on the iPad. She is the chocolate one on my profile pic. Health wise, she has been perfect( touch wood) so far. She is two and a half now.


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## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

Thank you, she is a doll too. Where did you get her? How much does she weigh? You are lucky to have 2 Havanese.


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## AnnaM (Jun 2, 2012)

I got her from Nevena's Havanese, currently in San Diego. She weighs fifteen lbs, on average. We wanted a slightly bigger dog, since we have young children at home. 
And the other one, we got from Havanese Rescue...


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

Anna, I had to add a recent picture of my chocolate furkid Sheldon. Looked so much like yours - same pensive expression!


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## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

The eyes and big nose and the mustache definitely remind us of our dear Coco. It seems the Chocolates have bigger noses? Does your guy have nice big teeth? Do you have Sheldon's parents names? What a nice photo. I always had trouble getting a photo of the beautiful eyes. Thank you for posting this photo.


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## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

Another question; It looks like Sheldon has curly hair? We like the curly look and it was not bad to keep with a puppy cut.


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

It is a little on the curly side - especially on the top of his head, for some reason. The rest of his coat isn't quite as curly. 

I'll check for his parents' names when I get home tonight; I don't remember them off hand.

About his eyes - not only are they the amber color typical of chocolates, but they are very big and round (you can't tell from this picture). Much bigger and rounder than my previous Hav. Combined with his affinity for making and holding eye contact with strangers, people always remark about his eyes.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Question for the breeders on this forum - why do chocolates tend to have round eyes instead of almond-shaped ones, which are breed standard? And why do they often have larger noses?


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## AnnaM (Jun 2, 2012)

DebW said:


> Anna, I had to add a recent picture of my chocolate furkid Sheldon. Looked so much like yours - same pensive expression!


 Very cute. We had a house guest recently who looked a lot like Sheldon, except he was black and white


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## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

*Chocolate nose*



MarinaGirl said:


> Question for the breeders on this forum - why do chocolates tend to have round eyes instead of almond-shaped ones, which are breed standard? And why do they often have larger noses?


I am not a breeder but this is an interesting question. Coco and other dark chocolates do have big noses. Coco had big teeth which were perfect. His eyes were beautiful light brown and I think almond. They were big. He was big at 21 lbs but lean and tall. His hair was curly and went from very dark chocolate to milk chocolate.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I haven't seen many chocolate Havanese, but have never noticed any difference in their eye shape and noses. Truffles has small almond shaped amber eyes. Her nose always makes me smile because it is so small and shaped like a heart  She isn't very big though. I would think everything would be in proportion to size.


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## emichel (May 3, 2012)

I think Benjamin has a pretty big nose, and he's B&W, but he's also pretty big all over. This is a very interesting hypothesis, that big noses are somehow correlated w/chocolate genes. I'm dying to hear if there's anything to it. Whatever is the case, I do have to confess that I really love dog noses, especially Havanese dog noses, of every color and size!


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

I just looked it up. Sheldon's parents were named Mardi Gras and A Pirate's Life for Me. His Dad was tiny for a Hav; his Mom was average sized.

Funny, I was not looking for a chocolate. I didn't care much about color, but would have preferred black or b/w if I had a choice. 

Reminds me of that old song. "She's got eyes of blue. I've never cared for eyes of blue. But she has eyes of blue, so that's my favorite now."


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I was not looking for a chocolate either and then little Truffles came along….


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

They SHOULDN'T have bigger noses or round eyes or be larger than the standard. But if a breeder is putting color above proper structure in their breeding program… that's what happens. They might get the color they want, but at the expense of more important things. (from the perspective of the breed standard, where color doesn't matter)


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## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

krandall said:


> They SHOULDN'T have bigger noses or round eyes or be larger than the standard. But if a breeder is putting color above proper structure in their breeding program&#8230; that's what happens. They might get the color they want, but at the expense of more important things. (from the perspective of the breed standard, where color doesn't matter)


I think you hit the nail on the head. Although I too did not seek out chocolate with my first Hav, that is what I got and now we are hooked on the brown eyes and brown nose. Health is our first priority. If you can recommend a breeder that is to standard on the chocolates please let me know. I have been talking to several outstanding breeders. I am focused on the health issues and the breeder's handling of the pups. My husband calls it pre-school. I was very impressed with Starborn's program and Heartsong's.
I have learned so much on this forum. I thank everyone.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

My understanding is that all Havanese genetically have almond eyes. Just curious how color changes structure?


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

I have a chocolate lab and many people always make comments about the different colors of labs having different characteristics but I dont know if this is true. He looks and acts like a standard lab to me. The only thing I notice is that my lab absorbs heat in the Florida summers. We have to be careful that he does not do too much in the heat and we always have plenty of water. We've even taught him to drink from human water fountains just in case.


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

Havana browns are pretty too. Jennifer Manders had one on her site awhile back, what a beautiful dog!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Heather Glen said:


> My understanding is that all Havanese genetically have almond eyes. Just curious how color changes structure?


NOT all Havanese have almond eyes. All Havanese SHOULD have almond eyes, just like every Havanese SHOULD have straight legs, a head of a specific shape and a tail that curls up over the back. Not all do because no living creature is perfect. Responsible Havanese breeders know the standard well, and work hard to produce dogs as close to the standard as possible.

As much as I love Kodi, he's not perfect. He is extremely well bred, with multiple fully health tested show champions behind him on both sides, including both parents. Both parents are right in the middle of the "preferred" size range. Kodi is at the tippity top of the allowed size range, right at 11 1/2". His nose is also longer than you would like in a Havanese for the show ring. To balance that, he has very nice structure, straight legs, lovely dark brown, almond shaped eyes, a good, complete scissor bite and a beautiful tail set.

Breeders have to balance all parts of the dog when they breed. Since no dog is perfect, they may decide to breed a bitch with slightly rounder eyes (which often also goes with a slightly shorter muzzle) but a great tail set to a dog who has a great head, but a too-tight tail. Even two dogs who are very close to perfect will not produce consistently "perfect, show quality" puppies.

When, on top of all the qualities I've just mentioned (and more... That's a small part of the standard), a breeder ALSO tries to produce a specific color, it adds another BIG level of complexity. and GOOD, show ring worthy chocolate Havanese are exceedingly rare. Not only do breeder prefer good dark coat color, but their skin must be dark enough, with no light spots, and their eyes, though it is allowable for them to be lighter than other Havanese colors, can't be too light either.

Of the litters I've seen with chocolate pups, most of them HAD to go to pet homes, solely based on color... Their skin or eyes were too light, no matter HOW good their conformation was. So, the breeders I know who are serious about producing top Havanese for the show ring, actually avoid breeding dogs to each other that they know carry chocolate. They might not get chocolates that way, but they get more consistent, better quality dogs that way.

Because chocolate has become popular with pet people, there are a number of less scrupulous breeders who have jumped on that band wagon. They work to produce chocolate, particularly dark chocolate, at the expense of worrying about other parts of the standard. They know they can always sell these puppies, often at a premium, just because of their color, whether they are good examples of the breed or not.

This is NOT to say that good quality chocolates don't show up from time to time. But they tend to come from people who are breeding for the whole package, and just happen to have chocolate in their gene pool, NOT from people purposely breeding/advertising chocolates. It's very much "buyer beware". If the dogs are not the right size, don't have the right "type" and good conformation, but are being advertised just because they are "rare" chocolates, I'd be very, very careful.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SJ1998 said:


> I have a chocolate lab and many people always make comments about the different colors of labs having different characteristics but I dont know if this is true. He looks and acts like a standard lab to me. The only thing I notice is that my lab absorbs heat in the Florida summers. We have to be careful that he does not do too much in the heat and we always have plenty of water. We've even taught him to drink from human water fountains just in case.


Of course the heat thing would be at least as bad with a black lab. Also, the color genetics are much less convoluted than they are in havanese. There are only three colors and no modifiers. In a breed like that, it's easier to get the color you want AND the rest of the package.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Parrothedd said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head. Although I too did not seek out chocolate with my first Hav, that is what I got and now we are hooked on the brown eyes and brown nose. Health is our first priority. If you can recommend a breeder that is to standard on the chocolates please let me know. I have been talking to several outstanding breeders. I am focused on the health issues and the breeder's handling of the pups. My husband calls it pre-school. I was very impressed with Starborn's program and Heartsong's.
> I have learned so much on this forum. I thank everyone.


You know what I think about the Kings.  and although I don't know Karen (Heartsong) in person, she and I agree about just about ebpverything here on the forum, so I suspect I'd like the way she raises her puppies. . But I KNOW the kings don't have any chocolate in their lines, and I don't THINK Dance does either.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Well said karen. There is one particular breeder who breeds chocolates. Her name keeps coming up as a good breeder and I just cringe....I think the chocolates are adorable but I still like the black coloring the best


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I like black skin and dark eyes. other than that, I've seen a lot of colors I like. All else being equal, I'd love a red. But the same thing is happening with them as has happened with chocolates, though not as bad yet… some people are breeding JUST to get red puppies, with no regard for the more important things.

Bottom line is I'd NEVER choose a puppy based on color. That's the very least important on my list of need, want, and would be nice.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

There are 3 chocolate Havanese that I see at some of the local dog parks and they all remind me of a cockapoo because they're bigger than a typical Hav, have round eyes, more curly than wavy hair, big noses, and their tails look a little different. The owners all say they're Havanese but I always forget when I first see them. They're very cute though!


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

It is probably possible to have it all, health, color, size etc. but you may have to wait awhile.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I have only actually seen a few chocolates and ever noticed they were different in any way except in color. Color really is not important to me, but health is. Truffles came from a long time breeder and we are very happy with her


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## Marbel (May 20, 2014)

I have a chocolate and she is perfect to me. This thread has gotten too technical with coloring, etc. We all want perfect puppies, but that's just not possible. Have confidence in whichever breeder you choose to get your puppy from and if your comfortable with your chose that's all that matter. Giving that puppy a loving home is the greatest gift.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Marbel said:


> I have a chocolate and she is perfect to me. This thread has gotten too technical with coloring, etc. We all want perfect puppies, but that's just not possible. Have confidence in whichever breeder you choose to get your puppy from and if your comfortable with your chose that's all that matter. Giving that puppy a loving home is the greatest gift.


I think it's fine to choose (or be chosen BY ) a chocolate Havanese if that's what comes along, and the breeder is trustworthy and the dogs are health tested. But I think that people who set color (ANY color&#8230; not just chocolate) as the first criteria on their "wish list" for the perfect puppy, can either make a a big mistake or have a long wait ahead of them.

The chocolate puppies that were mistakenly produced by a friend of mine (she didn't realize that both parents carried for chocolate) were lovely in every way except for pigment. They all made WONDERFUL pet dogs, and I'm sure their owners couldn't care less that they wouldn't do well in the show ring.

You just have to be very careful that a breeder that is purposely breeding for chocolate is ALSO doing everything else they should. (especially that all-important health testing) There are definitely GOOD breeders of chocolates out there, and there are some lovely chocolate Havanese. But there are also too many BYB's who have tried to jump on the "chocolate bandwagon" to make a quick buck. We just want people to avoid those, so they get to enjoy the love of their life for a very long time!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I agree Karen…
Chloe is just the cutest Marbel


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

Chloe is really cute! Love that puppia harness too.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Where did you get that cute ID tag with her name?


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## Marbel (May 20, 2014)

Heather Glen said:


> Where did you get that cute ID tag with her name?


Petsmart.


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

I showed her pictures to Sheldon and he said 'wow, she's hot!'


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## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

They are made for each other. What cuties!! Thanks to all of you for your help in moving me onto my next love. It has really helped.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I saw this show breeders dog at the show today. She might be worth looking into if you don't mind flying to CA to get a pup.

http://www.chocolatesilkdogs.com


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## parrotfeathers (Sep 15, 2014)

It is more difficult to produce any quality animal if all you are concerned with is color. There has been a new color showing up in labs due to a dilute gene--they are silver. There is no such color in the registry so breeders are registering them as chocolates. Purportedly there are health problems that go with this.


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## RioRocco (Jun 5, 2012)

*Love all of my CHOCOLATES*

Here are the 4 that I have. Each one 1 year apart with the far right 1 year old boy and the little girl is 2. Other 2 boys are 3 years old.


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## azcolaw (Jul 19, 2013)

What a cute group!!! What is the size difference with your four?


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## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

This is quite a Havanese photo? My big question is how did you get all 4 to sit for the photo?


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## RioRocco (Jun 5, 2012)

Boys are about 13 lbs, girl is 9lbs. 

Positive reinforcement with treats and they line up like this all the time with out any help. Not always in the same order but do line up and sit.


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## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

That is so cute!! They are darling!


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## parrotfeathers (Sep 15, 2014)

What cuties!!


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