# crate training question



## ripper

I haven't even gotten our hav yet and I am trying to prepare the best I can. Question is should I put a blanked in the crate while I am trying to house train him? I have gotten mixed messages: blanket will make him more comfortable or a blanket might tempt him to use it to pee or poop in. What do you think?


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## Guest

I always put a fleece pad or blanket in the crate and a plush toy so they have something to snuggle with. We use potty pads so I take the puppy to the pad right before they go to bed...after they potty I tuck them in for the night. Baby puppies will have accidents, but they learn quickly...at least that has been my experience. We usually put the water bowl up about one hour before bedtime.


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## ripper

Where do you have the puppy pad? You don't take them outside?


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## Guest

My dogs are trained to go outside or use potty pads...which makes it nice when we travel. I keep the potty pad in a tray in the laundry room. We never have accidents because they always have access to the pads.

One more suggestion...have you purchased an ex-pen? I have found that ex-pens really help with housebreaking. An ex-pen is like a baby's playpen. It keeps the puppy safe and in a controlled area. You can set up the pen with a crate or doggie bed, some toys, a water bowl and a potty pad. The puppy learns to use the pad for their business and the crate or doggie bed for comfort . After they use the pad, praise them BIG TIME and offer a treat if you want to and then let them out to explore and play. The ex-pen provides them with a little structure, but gives them more room to stretch and play than a crate.


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## Laurief

I used and Xpen for both my pups and it worked wonderfully. I opened it up and clasped the sides to each side of the open crate, so the pup could just walk into the crate to sleep yet had the pads at the other end of the pen, away from the sleeping area. We purchase a piece of linolium - not too expensive - at Home depot and put it underneath on the kitchen floor. Since my floor is wood, it protects it while they are training. It is a great place to put them when they need a nap, or you cant keep a close eye on them. Once we started to see nothing on the pads at night, then I would put the pup in the closed crate for short periods, and eventually the pads were gone & they went outside exclusively. The xpen & crates are great training tools - I think.


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## ripper

Thanks, these are great suggestions!


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## ripper

I haven't purchased an xpen, but my laundry room is right off the kitchen and I am planning on putting a gate at the door with his crate etc. while I am not at home or when I can't keep an eye on him. That should work the same I think and I can put the puppy pads down in there. thanks.


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## ama0722

I started Dora out with an Xpen too. She even still has the same fleece baby blanket that is in her crate in the car (powerpuff girls!) The more work you put into it in the beginning, I think the sooner you get the results!

Good luck,
Amanda


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## Tom King

We ALWAYS use expens. The amount of free space they have, and in addition the potty area, is most important for potty training. The laundry room will probably be too big to start with. To us, no accidents on the floor is the right number. With a single 10 week old puppy we will even fold the expen in to a 2x4 foot size with a litter box in one end. They naturally don't want to soil their sleeping area but will go a few feet away. We use this instinct to start training pups as soon as they start toddling around. They don't stay in the expen all the time. Just when they can't be watched all the time, to sleep, to eat, and to potty. The best incentive of all for them learning to "go potty" on command is to go over beside the box or pad end and say "go potty" stoically and with no other postive reinforcement until they do. Then pick the pup up and make much over it and let him/her out to play for a while. These are very smart dogs and they learn quick that going potty on command brings happy results. No baby talk before going potty. Of course it works best when you know they have to go-like right after they wake up. I can have a 10 week old pup squatting on command, even if it doesn't have to, in 2 or 3 evenings. Potty training comes before house training. To me leaving one loose in a room, even a small one, is asking for house training before you have acheived potty training. JB Pets has the best price on expens. We use the 2' ones for puppies which are easy for people to step over if needed.


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## ripper

Oh, I didn't understand potty training vs. house training until you just explained it that way. Okay, I got it now, that makes sense. I got a "manual" on the internet written by Fiona Kelly that has been helpful to and I didn't understand the difference between potty training and house training. This is so helpful. Thanks.


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## Melissa Miller

I would most def. put a blanket in the crate. You dont want them sleeping on a hard crate. My havs like to be cozy they always move the blankets around with their nose to get them just right. 

But my two think a crate means they are going somewhere. I have both of mine in bed with me. They are spoiled.


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## Sherman

Melissa, how old were your dogs when they started sleeping in bed with you? And how do you keep their hair out of their eyes when it's long and swept back over their heads? Your dogs are beautiful.


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## Melissa Miller

Carol, 
In the photos, its hard to keep their hair out of the face. I use Hairspray some on Stogie,. With Goldies cut, she is ok now. 
For every photo like my avatar, there is one with Stogies hair falling into his face. I just brush it back and spray it,, and they try and hurry to take the photo. They HATE their hair being down in their eyes. 

When Goldie was longer she would pout if her hair was not up and Stogie cant see, he will run into things. All I have to say is "Lets put your hair up", they run and put their head on my lap, its so cute!

My guys started sleeping in the bed from day one. We put Goldie in her crate and she made it for about 20 minutes and I got weak. Im lucky they are both great bed dogs.


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## susaneckert

Melissa can you use any kind of Hair spray ? Yoda hates Im mean HATES his hair up the second I let him down he runs all threw the house rubbing his head all over every thing he can fine to get the hair peice out.9 times out of 10 he gets most of his hair out of the band.Thats why his head is soooooo fuzzy its all his fault LOL I have been holding on to him for like 10 mins just for I can see what he looks like with his hair out of his face.I even correct him when he is doing it so he sneaks now he rubbs a little and looks at me like Im not doing it.What a stinker he is LOL I dont let him see me laughing cause he will do it more.Its so hard to keep a straight face at times . He will smile at me at times trying to get my attendtion waggs his tail like look at me you know you cant stay mad at me for long .And normally he is right but I dont let him know it.Any ideas on how I can get him not to rub his head? I know crates do not work with Yoda I have a 200 series and he hates it I think he was tramasied from when he flew to me the crate was so tiny . the cat crate I had was bigger than the one he came in. I am getting a wire crate soon I am hoping to get him train for it.maybe the open feeling might help him.Since I am going to try to show him he needs to learn that crates are good. Susan


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## Al Henderson

Sherman said:


> Melissa, how old were your dogs when they started sleeping in bed with you? And how do you keep their hair out of their eyes when it's long and swept back over their heads? Your dogs are beautiful.


Sherman, I have mine sleeping in the bed also. From the first night I brought him home at 8 weeks old. I usually place him in bed at around 11:30pm to midnight after I take him outside and make sure he does his business and he lays down and goes right to sleep till about right at 7:00am when he will lick you are make a little whining noise to let you know he is ready to go do his business outside. Never once in over a week so far has he went potty in the bed or the house course I watch him in the house like a hawk, plus spend alot of time with him outside playing which he loves to do.

Before I put him outside. I always place him down by the door where the wife has hung some little round christmas bells on the door handle and grab his paw to ring the bells as i say "Outside". This morning for the first time, I placed him by the door and he nudged the bells with his nose. I had to give him alot of praise for that.


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## irnfit

Kodi was terrific the first few days. About 9pm, he would climb into his Sherpa bed and go to sleep untill 6am. But, then he started to cry and my husband put him into bed with us. He curled up between the pillows and went to sleep, and this is how it has been ever since. We really don't mind because he sleeps all night. He wakes me up in the morning by licking my eyes. He's the greatest!


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## Laurief

We started that with ours , and they did great for a while until Lexi decided that readjusting herself in the middle of the night meant also giving Mommy a kiss, and then Lily decided that she wanted to get up and play at 5am each day. So they sleep with me till around 11:30 - when husband comes to bed, they go into their crates in our room & everyone sleeps till 6am. Not sure what I am going to do with the new pup yet - - leave him in the xpen at night, or crate him in our room too>!!??!


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## Tom King

Ours started out sleeping in the bed with us but when we passed four we ran out of bed corners. Then they started sleeping in crates in our room. When we passed 10, I built an addition with a new bedroom and dogroom beside the bedroom.


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## h-hhavanese

I have a question? We have 2 13 month old havanese and they were housetrained to a litter box. We have moved since and they are not adjusting to the litter box. They go by it but, not in it always. We were wondering what you would suggest and we were wondering how hard it would be to start them by going outside? Any suggestions would help us.


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## ama0722

With my havanese, she came to us in the spring so we trained her to use the outdoors. With my maltese, she was first litter trained as we were living in michigan and january was way too much snow for a 9 oz puppy and then my husband thought it was gross and decided to teach her outside in the summer. We had a battle of going back and forth... she decided outside it was!!! I think you have to be careful of using too many methods though. When we were at the inbetween stage is when she had accidents on the floor. Now we have the bells up on the door. When we travel, the bells come with us. This christmas we stayed at my in laws and showed the girls where the bells were and they knew right away.

Good luck,
Amanda


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## ripper

*bedtime questions*

I noticed many of you all let your dogs sleep in bed with you, aren't you afraid they might fall out of bed? I would be scared they would break a leg or something! I know Biscuit would love to sleep with me, but he is doing great in his crate in my room. He barks at my cat as soon as he sees him no matter what time of day. Yikes! How do I stop that!???


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## irnfit

Ripper,
We're not afraid they will fall out of bed, because they sleep between our pillows! Kodi is a older, so he can get in and out of bed by himself. Shelby is only 14 weeks, but she doesn't move once she finds her spot between us. Plus, it's worth all the "good morning" hugs and kisses they give me.


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## Sherman

Dear Ripper,
Thanks for the reply. My 7-month-old puppy Sherman is doing ok with potty training now that his neutering trauma last month is over. That vet experience made him lapse several times. I solved it by taking him out every 2 hours without fail except at night. It was exhausting! I keep a log of everything he does outside. Now I'm trying to lengthen it to 3 hours and that's working out ok. He hasn't had an accident in 2 weeks. whoopee!
But the interaction with the cats is very trying. I try to keep them separated with baby gates. The dog has to stay downstairs because the cat food and litter boxes are upstairs. He can't sleep in my bed because 2 cats are entrenched there and I don't want to disrupt them. He's gotten up here a couple of times. He loves cat food more than life itself. He chases the kitten who is his age, but the older ones stay away from him. But sometimes the kitten and Sherman sort of play together. I think there's light somewhere ahead of us. Thanks for your input.
Carol


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## marjrc

ripper said:


> I noticed many of you all let your dogs sleep in bed with you, aren't you afraid they might fall out of bed? I would be scared they would break a leg or something! I know Biscuit would love to sleep with me, but he is doing great in his crate in my room. He barks at my cat as soon as he sees him no matter what time of day. Yikes! How do I stop that!???


We haven't had Ricky sleep with us yet either.. hubby doesn't want to start that, although i'd love it! Thing is, our bed is high up and I also worry about him hurting himself trying to get off of it. He has his crate in our room, so for a while that will do. He's not completely trustworthy on his own anyway... I'd worry he'd get down w/o waking us and do something he shouldn't!

Oh dear, the cat... I can sympathize! We have two cats and Ricky "allows" Shadow to come into the gated kitchen and dining area, but barks when he's outside the patio door, he bites when Shadow jumps up somewhere and chases him mercilessly when the poor cat tries to get from the patio door to the other side of the gates! Gigi, on the other hand hardly ever comes into the kitchen... she can't stand Ricky! lol Ricky barks like mad if he's in his crate and spots the cats. sigh.....


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## marjrc

Sherman said:


> Dear Ripper,
> Thanks for the reply. My 7-month-old puppy Sherman is doing ok with potty training now that his neutering trauma last month is over. That vet experience made him lapse several times. I solved it by taking him out every 2 hours without fail except at night. It was exhausting! I keep a log of everything he does outside. Now I'm trying to lengthen it to 3 hours and that's working out ok. He hasn't had an accident in 2 weeks. whoopee!
> But the interaction with the cats is very trying. I try to keep them separated with baby gates. The dog has to stay downstairs because the cat food and litter boxes are upstairs. He can't sleep in my bed because 2 cats are entrenched there and I don't want to disrupt them. He's gotten up here a couple of times. He loves cat food more than life itself. He chases the kitten who is his age, but the older ones stay away from him. But sometimes the kitten and Sherman sort of play together. I think there's light somewhere ahead of us. Thanks for your input.
> Carol


Great news, Carol, about the housetraining!

The cats do make life more interesting with a puppy, don't they? ARGH! It doesn't stay quite around here for very long either... there's a lot of barking when Ricky spots the cats, esp. if they are where he can't get to them! lol One of our cats is ok with Ricky, but our older one, Gigi, is not even going to try to care about him! She's cranky and will stay in other areas of the house for some peace and quiet. Smart girl! Thing is, Ricky will one day no longer need the gates we have here and will have run of the house - should be fun!! lol So far, their food dishes are separate but eventually, there will be no more gates and then what??  sigh......

I don't see my light yet... still too far away I think. LOL


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## irnfit

I have 3 cats and Kodi thinks he is the boss of them all. Shelby, the new puppy, really doesn't pay any attention to them. Kodi chases them all over the house.


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## ripper

OOOOOHHHHH! I didn't think about when my pup will have more freedom around the house, he'll be into the cat's food for sure. I noticed that Biscuit mainly barks "mad" when he can't get to the cat too, like when he's in his crate. But my cat, KC, is a typical cat who acts like he's the king of the castle and the low life puppy is just a pain and he'll put up with his barking and the lick's of curiosity. It's been interesting, I feel kind of sorry for my nine year old KC though, but Biscuit is sure cute, I just wish he didn't bark so loudly at my cat especially in the middle of the night when the cat jumps up on my bed to sleep.



marjrc said:


> Great news, Carol, about the housetraining!
> 
> The cats do make life more interesting with a puppy, don't they? ARGH! It doesn't stay quite around here for very long either... there's a lot of barking when Ricky spots the cats, esp. if they are where he can't get to them! lol One of our cats is ok with Ricky, but our older one, Gigi, is not even going to try to care about him! She's cranky and will stay in other areas of the house for some peace and quiet. Smart girl! Thing is, Ricky will one day no longer need the gates we have here and will have run of the house - should be fun!! lol So far, their food dishes are separate but eventually, there will be no more gates and then what??  sigh......
> 
> I don't see my light yet... still too far away I think. LOL


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## Laurief

When I had 2 cats & one pup, my vet warned me not to let the dog eat the cat food as it is VERY high in fat & calories. You may have to find a high place to feed the cat!


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## marjrc

Laurief said:


> When I had 2 cats & one pup, my vet warned me not to let the dog eat the cat food as it is VERY high in fat & calories. You may have to find a high place to feed the cat!


Yup, that's what my worry is too! Once Ricky is no longer gated away from where the cats' food dishes are, we'll have to come up with something. Thing is, I've spent all this time training the cats NOT to jump on our counters!!  Sigh..... LOL


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## Laurief

Thats a tough one, what about a laundrey room or bathroom? It is hard when both animal have free run of the house. My pups were never allowed downstairs in the finished & unfinished areas of the basement, unless someone was with them, so that is where we kept the cats food & litter.


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## ripper

I didn't know that the cat food was so high in fat. My cat will even eat the dog's food. I will have to come up with a better plan. Does your dog bark at the cats too? If not, how did you get them to stop?


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## marjrc

Laurief said:


> Thats a tough one, what about a laundrey room or bathroom? It is hard when both animal have free run of the house. My pups were never allowed downstairs in the finished & unfinished areas of the basement, unless someone was with them, so that is where we kept the cats food & litter.


AHA ! Yes! We could do that too since the cats' litter box is in the basement and for now, Ricky isn't let in there unless we're with him. That's only happened twice I think. The door to the basement is always open though since our oldest son has his room down there and the kids use the computer and video games there.... hmmm.... We'll think of something, I'm sure! lol

Ripper: Yes, Ricky barks at the cats - oh my, does he ever! It's not always 'crazy' barking at Shadow, but at Gigi it is because she doesn't even want to come into the kitchen. She sits up high somewhere, or at the living room window and Ricky, who is gated in the kitchen, spies her there and barks - a lot!! When Shadow goes out the patio door, having passed through the kitchen and endured Ricky's "puppiness", licking and nibbling, Ricky will watch like a hawk. As soon as Shadow jumps over the gate we have on the deck (so Ricky can't get down), Ricky, who is still indoors, goes nuts with his barking!

If I'm there, I can usually prevent it by ssshh'ing Ricky, rubbing him and distracting him with a toy... but not always. If he's already out on the deck playing when Shadow decides to come back in the house, Ricky will bark at him then too.

It's annoying, but very hard to stop.


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## Sherman

Holy cow! Today was raining ice and it coated the trees. We are very lucky to still have electricity! The grass was coated with ice and crunchy and cold and Sherman walked gingerly on it. But tonight the trees were raining chunks of ice on us--big ones that hurt and I had to bring Sherman in. I put puddle pads beside his bed and told him it was ok to go on them. Then he urinated on the living room carpet right beside me. He's 7 1/2 months old and will never be potty trained. I want to sell him! The cats are afraid of him too. He growls at people when he sees them outside. I'm so sick of him.


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## Laurief

Carol, I too am sad that you feel that way about Sherman. I am sure that all he really wants to do is to please you. I would use the crate more if I were you. Only let him out of the crate once he has gone outsite to pee, and then give him some freedom for about 1/2 hour. Then he should go to the pen, or crate again. If you are able to find a crate that he fits in that you can carry around, you could bring him with you throughout the house so he is not alone, but still confined. With a 12 week old, I feel your pain about the carpeting but once sherman "gets it" it will be worth it!! My older ones have done the same thing when the weather is really really bad. I sure would not want to go out in that kind of weather. Do you use puppy pads at all? Maybe you would feel more comfortable putting pads on the floor in the living room in case he doesnt make it outside?? Please keep us posted.


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## Vicky D

I found that my "Buddy" likes to snuggle with towels. He loves them, so I put them in his crate. The good part is, that if he has an accident I can simply toss them in the wash. I had a sherpa liner but he would just dig into it to try and have it ball up. It got destroyed so I tried the towel.


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## whitBmom

Hello Everyone  Carol, first off I am sorry you feel so frustrated, but keep in mind it is a BIG learning curve for both of you. Like Laurie said, he does want to please you. If you have to put him in his crate when you are stressed out, take a breather and get back to it again. Forgive yourself and him.
In my case I too am learning, our Oreo is 10 wks old and he is learning too  Just like when I had my 2 children, it was at times frustrating and I felt like I wanted to scream sometimes. With time, it all passed and I keep on reminding myself when I begin to feel that I am getting frustrated. This will pass. Carol, don't give up - you both can do this.

I do have a question for you Laurie. The is so much info on how often to take out a pup (ie take him out within 15-20 mins of eating, drinking and playing), but Oreo seems to just be set on holding it, and for the past 2 days he is really set on not going on the pads. It seems to be a battle of wills at this point and I am doing my best to not feel hopeless. Laurie, when you mean crate him, do you mean if he does not "go" then crate him for a while and try again? Could you offer up some suggestions? I need more ideas please


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## Laurief

Hi - that is exactly what I mean. Now that he has been with you for a while, you have an idea if - he goes 10 minutes after eating, immed after, 30 minutes after... so when you think he has to go, take him out. if he does not go, put him in the crate. Take out again in a ittle bit. If he goes, his reward is that he gets to stay out and play. Please dont think that by any means Logan is close to going only on the pads or outside. I took him out this am, we walked around - a lot - no poops - walked into house, got my coat and he pooped on the floor. It just takes time. All the reading I have done says that at 10 weeks old they dont learn a thing!! Their brains are not developed enough - that is a time for just love, trust & cuddles. At 12 weeks is when they finally can start "learning". I am just this week (Logan is now 12 weeks) staring to crate him when I go to work & coming home every 2 hours to let him out. Hope it works!!! Laurie


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## JodiM

Carol, it isn't Sherman's fault- he doesn't understand that you wanted him to go on the pads. Please don't be mad at him. 

I am noticing more and more that Princess is exactly like my toddlers, if I don't stay on top of her, she has an accident.. it was the same when potty training my kiddos. 
We have been 4 days without an accident, and while I think Princess is doing better, I think I'm the one doing better. If I stay on top of her, and either take her out, or put her in her crate when I can't watch her, she does great.

I agree with Laurie, you need to use the crate more. 

Keep in mind, Sherman has been through a lot too. Not only was he taken from him mama and siblings, and brought into a new home.. he went through getting fixed, and is having a harder time adjusting. Give him time, and I'm sure he'll get the hang of it.


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## Cosmosmom

Hi 
I got my little guy when He was 9 weeks old . I bought flannel baby blankets at Target first before switching to a fleece puppy pad . Actually now Target has puppy blankets and I find the AKC Potty pads to be the best . All sold at target The baby blankets are very soft and you just throw them in the washer if he has an accident .

I do not know if your puppy will be too happy being in the laundry room and you in the kitchen area . They are usually missing their Mom and their litter they need to be close to you . Also they are small and they need a small crate to make them feel secure - if you are thinking of getting a larger crate for when he is older get one that comes with a divider .

I know that we closed off the kitchen and also we had a playpen and a crate for the times he was very needy and we had it beside the kitchen table .. 
There are so many things you can buy now even a device that sounds like the mommy's heart beat to help him sleep through the night .. Do not plan on sleeping through the night for a few nights - you will be sleep deprived so get the puppy on a weekend not during the week . If you work you will have to arrange for someone to help with the potty training . They have very small bladders and they pee a lot . Remeber they do not like to do their business where they sleep ..


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## Laurief

Sherman's Mom, How are you doing?? I hope you are feeling a little better about him? Anything you need as far as advise goes, I am sure you will get it here. We all go thru those frustrating moments with them, just like kids, so hang in there!!
Laurie


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## Rita

I think you need to take a step back a minute. It is probably really frustrating having the weather like that......... When you get upset, dogs usually pick up on that and get upset too. Is this the first time he went in the house? Has he been going to the bathroom outside? If so, he probably was confused because he is a creature of habit and is used to going outside.

I highly recommend the "Housetraing for Dummies" book. It was suggested to me on this forum and its great!!!!!!!!!! It even has suggestions on how to fix housetraining problems. Sometimes it could be the feeding time, letting them have too much water,etc..........

I am sure once the weather thaws out and you get to work on this, things will be OK. Keep the faith.


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## Sherman

Thanks you guys. I've read just about every puppy book out there including the one about training in 7 days. All kinds! Yesterday he peed on the living rug. This morning he left a huge puddle on the couch where I was getting his coat and leash on. I was flabbergasted. He's never done that before. I'm thinking about asking the vet to check him for a urinary infection or something. But the rest of the day I kept him behind a gate in the kitchen. He can still look out a window, but he's very sad about not being allowed in the living room. He didn't have another accident and managed to do his "business" on the frozen grass every 3 hours or so. I haven't given up, but I'm pretty discouraged. He's almost 8 months old. How much longer is this going to go on?


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## Rita

Hang in there. You did the right thing about stepping back again. Many books and people on this site mentioned exactly what you did! Putting him back in the xpen or crate. Then take him out to the potty and only leave him out of the xpen for an hour. So pat yourself on the back for that.  

Try to do a search on this forum and look under Tom King. He had a lot of great advice. He is the dog whisperer.   

I am sure the stinky weather didn't help......... Winter gives everyone the blues. But ice really stinks....


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## juliav

Hi Carol,

I am sure the awful weather was causing the set back. You were right restrict his access to the house. 

Does Sherman go to the park and play with other dogs? Does he get to play with them off leash?


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## Laurief

Carol, just checking in to see how Sherman is doing? I know it is frustrating, we had the best day with Logan the other day, I cleaned up only one pee the whole day, so I'm thinkin (haha) that he's got it! Finally on his way. Boy was I wrong!! Today I cleaned up 2 poops on the floor and about 5 pees. So I know it is frustrating. It will get better. Let us know how he is making out.
Laurie


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## whitBmom

I totally get how frustrating it can be. With Oreo there are GREAT days and then, well, not very good days  We have the expen set up in our living room and we use a baby gate to limit his exploration to only our living room area ( just in the middle of the couches) Oreo is getting the idea that he can come out of his expen ONLY if he does potty. It's hilarious to watch how he tries to "squeak" out even a drop just to get out. WE have to watch him like a HAWK, in case he decides he is going to piddle or squat on our floor. Yesterday for the first time he walked in to the open expen to potty and came right back out so PROUD ( you know that little "strut" they do  ) of what he just accomplished. I always have to remind myself that the only reason he goes in the wrong spot is because I am not being clear enough for him or I am not being attentive. On the good days I can see how all the sacrifice is really worth it  Mind you, I get all the encouragement from you wonderful members of this forum. YOU are my life line  Thank you


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## Cosmosmom

I can totally relate to the good days versus the bad days .
There are days Cosmo will go outside and go potty on Command first no 1 then off to a new spot and do no 2 . Same thing . What a good boy I am . time for a treat .. 
Yesterday was a busy day for me and he had to be crated longer than I 
normally crate him . 
I just turned my back for a minute and off he went to his favorite spot on the living room rug . He made a large deposit on the carpet .
For a while not everything had been on the pee pee pads or outdoors . I know he knows what he is doing but it is just a way to get attention .
It is a fine line . They really need consistency unfortunately that is not the real world sometimes we have other things that come up unexpectedly and it seems lie we pay a price .
Today is a new day ..
I agree this site is amazing . I wish I had known about it when I brought him home and we had all the issues we had then ..
I have read so many books also but the Havanese is a unique breed . The number of books on Havanese are limited .


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## eurobichons

*crate Training By eurobichons*

Crate Training:
Crate training is probably one of the best tools you can use to get off on the right foot in the discipline and house training of your new dog.
Your dog aims to please you. He derives sincere pleasure and enjoyment from
figuring out what you want him to do. When you praise and reward him, he likes it even better. Crate training paves the way for you to get the behavior you want from your dog.they have to learn to understand periods of
confinement.The key word is "understand" - it doesn't mean they'll like or appreciate it right away. Most dogs bark and complain during the first few days. If dogs are crate trained with a good, positive attitude, the sky's the limit on the good behaviors you can expect from your dog. Before long, your dog will think of his crate as "his own space," and will begin to hang out there even when he doesn't have to.
Crate Training Is Cruel, Right? Wrong!
The notion of putting your beloved pet in a "cage" is probably not a positive
thought for you.But crate training is not a cruel thing at all. A crate should never be used for long-term confinement. An adult dog, if properly
trained, can be left in a crate for as long as nine hours at a stretch. (Try not to leave your dog in his crate any longer than this.)
Also, a crate should never be used as punishment. As we'll see below, a crate
should be a peaceful sanctuary for your dog. The first and foremost reason to crate train is obedience. Does crate training lead
to obedience? Yes!
The way your dog relates to other members of his pack is largely determined
by his early socialization. Alpha Dog (you) is providing him with firm, fair, and consistent leadership. crate training is part of establishing yourself as the Alpha Dog. The benefit will be that your dog will look to you for leadership and
control, instead of the other way around.
(2) Housebreaking
Crate training is an efficient and effective way to house train a dog. Dogs do not like to soil their resting/sleeping quarters if given adequate opportunity to urinate elsewhere.
Temporarily confining your dog to a small area (such as a crate) strongly inhibits the tendency to urinate and defecate. However, there's still a far more important aspect of crate training. It's an opportunity, actually.
Because your dog doesn't want to urinate or defecate while in his crate, he will need to do so as soon as he is released. This makes for a perfect opportunity for you to praise him on having done a good job - something your dog longs for.This will take advantage of your dog's "clean nest" instinct, allowing your dog the opportunity to eliminate at the proper time and place.
Does this mean that a puppy will never relieve himself in his crate? No, but this is quite rare. Usually, a puppy or dog that has an elimination accident in his crate couldn't wait any longer.
(3) Discourage Destructive Behavior
Dogs, especially young puppies, love to chew. It's part of their natural instinct.
(4) Privacy
Your puppy needs a space. This should be a place where only your dog can go. . Even humans like a place of peace and quiet It's always a good idea to keep a few toys in your puppy's crate at all times,
possibly even an occasional treat. dogs, by nature, are den animals.
They like to have a quiet, dark place to hide and sleep. (5) Travel Safety
If he is used to a crate already, this won't be a problem for your dog,
or you!
How Long Does Crate Training Take?
and there's no pat answer. It truly is different for every
dog/owner combination.
most dog owners agree that you're ready to stop crate training when:
* You can trust your dog to urinate/defecate in the proper place at the proper time.
* You can trust your dog to be left alone for the day without his exhibiting
destructive behavior, such as chewing the furniture or scratching the door to your
house.
Unless this is true of your dog, you need to continue crate training * The crate should always be associated with something pleasant.
* Training should take place in a series of small steps.
Stay steady and consistent, and don't rush.
(1) Introduce Your Dog to the Crate
When you bring home the crate for the first time, place it in a relatively out-ofthe-
way place in the room you have chosen for it (see locations below). Try to fasten the
door open if you can. You don't want the door to hit your dog and frighten him.
Bring your dog over to the opening of the crate. Speak to him in a pleasant tone of voice when he is near the
crate. If necessary, encourage him by placing a few pieces of food or dog treats at the
entrance of the crate.
Some dogs won't go near their crates the first time they see them.
Don't force him to enter right away. He will gradually grow accustomed to the crate's
presence and the pleasant sound of your voice as he walks near it.
If necessary, toss some treats into the crate to urge him to go inside. If this doesn't
work, try tossing one of his favorite toys inside. Your goal is to lower the anxiety level
that he associates with his new "den."
He will eventually walk into and out of the crate at will, but be patient with him.
This could happen right away, or could take a few days.
(2) Start feeding your dog his meals inside the crate
Your goal in this step is to get your dog to associate pleasant events with his new
crate. One of a dog's favorite things to do is eat. So, we want to get him to associate this
with his new crate.
Place his full food dish as far to the rear of the crate as possible. If your dog has
an issue with going that far to the rear of the crate, try placing the dish a little closer to
the front. Continue to do this until your dog feels comfortable enough to eat without
hesitation.
Should you close the door while your dog is eating? Experts disagree on this
issue. Try to close the door once the dog begins eating inside his new crate, but watch
closely. If your dog exhibits signs of anxiety with closing the door, open it back. At the
next mealtime, try closing the door again. Eventually your dog will accept eating inside
the crate with the door closed. Again, you, the owner, need to show patience.
After your dog finishes his meal, praise him, but leave him inside the crate with
the door closed. These two positive reinforcers (his meal and your pleasant tone of voice)
should be enough to encourage him to stay inside his crate after his meal is finished. If he
begins to whine to be let out, you may have increased the length of time too quickly.
Next time, try leaving him in the crate for a shorter time period.
Important Note: If your dog whines to be let out, it's very important that you
NOT let him out until he stops whining. This will send the wrong message. You don't
want your dog to think that whining gets him what he wants. Exhibit tough love and
leave him inside until he calms down.
(3) Prepare your dog to begin spending more time inside the crate
It may take a while for your dog to feel comfortable eating his meals inside his
crate. Rest assured, he eventually will. After this, you can confine him there for short
time periods while you're home. Call him over to the crate and give him a treat.
Give him a command to enter. Here are some of the more popular ones:
* "Kennel Up"
* "Den Up"
* "Go Home"
* "Kennel Time"
* "Kennel"
* "Crate"
You can try to encourage him by pointing to the inside of the crate with a treat in
your hand. After your dog enters the crate, praise him, give him the treat and close the
door. Sit quietly near the crate for five to ten minutes and then go into another room for a
few minutes.
Once you return, sit calmly again for a short time. Then let him out of the crate.
Repeat this process several times a day. With each reiteration, gradually increase the
length of time you leave him in the crate. Also, gradually increase the length of time
you're out of his sight.
Once your dog will stay calmly in the crate for about a half hour with you out of
sight for the majority of the time, you can begin leaving him confined in the crate when
you're gone for short time periods and/or letting him sleep there at night.
This may take several days or weeks. The Wrong Way to Crate Train
It is possible to misuse (or abuse) crate training with your dog. What is the biggest
mistake dog owners make with crate training?
Using the crate as a method of getting a dog "out of the way" for long periods of
time.
A crate does get the dog out of the way occasionally, but some people misuse it to
get the dog out of the way, most of the time. Crating a dog for eight hours overnight or while you're at work is not cruel.
However, if you plan to do this, the dog must be taken for a long walk prior to crating.
Also, make it a point to let the dog out to eliminate immediately after you return home.
People who crate a dog for extremely long periods should question why they
wanted a dog in the first place. 
Another common mistake dog owners make is letting the dog out of the crate too
quickly and for the wrong reasons. The first time you put your puppy into his crate, he
will whimper and cry. When he does, you will be highly tempted to take him and hold
him.
This would be a mistake. Again, do NOT do take him out when he cries. If you
do, you will be reinforcing the wrong behavior (i.e., the dog thinks "if I cry, I get let
out."). Don't defeat the purpose of crate training by reinforcing behaviors you don't want.
However, done properly, crate training can be a wonderful experience for the both
of you. The benefit will be a well-behaved dog that's happy and secure in his
surroundings. You'll thoroughly enjoy your dog for years and you'll be proud of him or
her as well.

if you need more help please log onto our site
www.eurobichons.com
for help and advice for all bichons breeds


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## Rita

Thanks for the post on crate training. I just had a long discussion with someone who was a bichon owner and thought crate (actually called it a cage) was cruel. Boy. Did I set her straight...............


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## irnfit

I have never crate trained a dog, mainly because when I got my first one (about 21yrs ago), nobody was talking about this method. When I got the 2nd dog, we just trained him the same way we did the first. They were very well behaved dogs and I think that is because they knew that I was the pack leader. They lived to be 17 and 16 yrs with no problems, either behavioral or healthwise.
So, when I got Kodi, and now Shelby, I train them the same way. I think everyone has to choose the method that fits them and their lifestyle, as well as their dogs'.


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## eurobichons

Each to their own, nobody is suggesting we all should do it, but if like me you have 14 dogs then trust me when I say this is the safest method to train dogs in this environment.I also teach dog training I run a clinic for dogs and I also treat dogs that have some psychological problems because daft owners thought the dog was human !
www.eurobichons.com


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## Rita

Please don't get me wrong either. I wasn't knocking not using a crate. My previous 16 year old dog didn't use one either. There was really no info about it at that time (no internet and not a lot of books). But this lady was almost stating that anyone who used one was cruel to animals. Now, if anyone leaves a dog in there all day and night long, yes that is cruel. But most people, even online here at the forum, basically use it for housetraining, at night, or as a den (with the door open for them to come and go). So, I just simply explained the "den theory" to her. Plus, I made mention that I now understand why my Cairn Terrier used to lay in under my recliner when you had the feet part up (she thought it was a nice dark den). Which used to drive me crazy because a few times I forgot she was there and almost made a doggie sandwich out of her. Ow!!!!!!!!

But you are right. What ever works for the owner and the dog. Dogs just like humans have their own preferences........


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## juliav

I cate trained Bugsy as soon as I got him,

We used the crate at night primarily because at 12 weeks he was 3.6 lbs and I was afraid someone might accidently step on him. During the day we used the play pen when I wasn't able to watch him like a hawk. Now that is is fully house trained I took down the expen, as it has served its perpose. I do keep his crate open during the day so he can come and go as he pleases, but at night he can't go to sleep unless he is in a crate. Romeo (cream poodle) hates the crate and goes there only when he has to, but Brandy (red poodle) crate trained herself and loves to rest in it during the day and at night.


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## Lynn

Kara, 
this is alot to read - but it has good infor on crate training, which helps on potty training


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## Judy A

juliav..this is off the subject, but I see that Bugsy was 3.6 lbs at 12 weeks. Izzy is 3.3 lbs at 12 weeks and I just wondered how big Bugsy is now and how old? I really don't know what to expect as far as her adult size....


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## dboudreau

Does anyone know how Sherman is making out? They had such a terrible day and I don't remember seeing any posts since. I sure hope he is doing better

*


Sherman said:



Holy cow! Today was raining ice and it coated the trees. We are very lucky to still have electricity! The grass was coated with ice and crunchy and cold and Sherman walked gingerly on it. But tonight the trees were raining chunks of ice on us--big ones that hurt and I had to bring Sherman in. I put puddle pads beside his bed and told him it was ok to go on them. Then he urinated on the living room carpet right beside me. He's 7 1/2 months old and will never be potty trained. I want to sell him! The cats are afraid of him too. He growls at people when he sees them outside. I'm so sick of him.

Click to expand...

*


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## juliav

Hi Judy,

Bugsy just turned 8 month on the 21st of February and weighs 10.2 lbs at this time. He also stands about 10.5" tall, if I am measuring correctly. I don't know if he is going to get taller, but I am guessing maybe another 1/2" and maybe another pound or two in weight.... I am a first time Havanese owner, so it's all new to me as well.

Debbie - I haven't seen any posts from Sherman's mom. If anyone has, please post.


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## Laurief

Debbie, 
I am afraid that maybe Sherman's mom was unable to keep him. Although we gave lots of encouragement, she has not been on ( I dont think) since that post where she was so frustrated. I have also asked on the forum but have gotten no response - sad but maybe the right decision for their family. 
Laurie


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## Lynn

There was a post on 2/13 from Sherman's mom about the corded dog at Westminster, so I think she still has Sherman - she makes a referance to her dog being 8 months old now. Maybe she just doesn't get on the site very much any more. You can look up her ind. posting on the membership list and her last post was 2/13.


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## Laurief

I hope you are right and that she reaches out to us again.


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## Sherman

Hi everybody, not to worry. Sherman hasn't had an accident indoors since early January. He's almost 9 months old now and is doing well. He still growls at the cats and chases them, but they've learned to just avoid him by going upstairs. I think he's just about fully grown and he's eating adult food. He goes outside about 4 or 5 times a day which is a big improvement over what he did just a couple of months ago. He even refuses to use a puddle pad overnight. He just got a bath and looks like a proper Havanese puppy. If I could figure out how to post photos, I'd show him off. He really looks almost exactly like Susan Necker's puppy--white body and black ears and around his eyes. He should be named Bandit, for sure.
I'm sorry I worried you all with that depressing posting from a couple of months ago, but everything is fine now.
Carol


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## juliav

Hi Carol,

I am so glad to hear that Sherman is doing so well.  
Thanks for posting to let us know and don't be a strager.


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## dboudreau

Hi Carol, Good to hear things are better for you and Sherman. These little guys can be very frustrating at times. Sam is almost 14 months and will still "mark" on the toilets. If I keep the doors closed everything is fine. But with two little kids, its hard to keep them closed.  

There is a thread some where here to help in posting pictures. Love to see pictures.


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## Lynn

Hi Carol,
Good to here you and Sherman are happy and well! We missed you.


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## Laurief

Carol,
I am so glad to hear you and Sherman are doing well. We missed you!!
Laurie


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## whitBmom

Hello Carol, I am so happy to hear the good news. I agree it can be frustrating at times and I can see where you were coming from. Time and patience really was the key hear and you did it!! That is so great and also a wonderful lesson and reminder for those of us who may be going through any frustrations. Way to go, Carol and Sherman!!


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## Judy A

I'm also happy to hear that it is working out for you with Sherman. I'm so far behind at home with laundry, cleaning, picking up, etc. etc. since we got Izzy 1.5 weeks ago! It does get time consuming training a pup, but I know in the end it will be worth it. We were without power for three days which made for an interesting time at my mom's....two dogs, a grandson, son-in-law and two daughters really changed her 84 year old habits!! I'm glad to be home....but not much time for the forum except at work occassionally!! Again, glad you made it though the tough times..


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## Lisa Yager Rosales

Hello, I just joined this forum. I have a 3.5 month old Havanese girl. (Gidget) 
She does very well at ringing the bells and at night in her crate, which is kept in out bedroom. She is to the point of sleeping most of the night. Our problem is she is not doing very well during the day in her crate. This is a different crate than at night. We keep this crate in the kitchen. Am I expecting too much for her to hold it say from 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.? Any ideas or is it her age?


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## dboudreau

Hi and Welcome to the forum.  You maybe expecting too much from Gidget. An ex-pen and pee pads may work better until she is a little older. Sam's breeder told me a good judge on how long a puppy can "hold it" is their age. 3 1/2 months = 3 1/2 hours. Good luck with your pup and we love to see pictures. Post some when you can. Again Welcome


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## juliav

Hi Lisa and welcome,

Your puppy is doing great, but I do think it is too much for her to hold everything from 8 to 4 at this point. Do you have someone who can come and let her out and play with her for a little while during the day? If not, maybe get a dog walker, it would be great for her to get exposed to other dogs.

Best of luck,


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## Lisa Yager Rosales

Our crate is about as large as the small x-pen. I can fit a pee pad at one end and a bed at the other. She usually goes on the pee pad but then she tries to throw the mess she has made out the sides of the wire crate. Or she runs around in it.I also give her a stuffed toy, chew bone and chew rope. She also has a mobile hanging.


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## Olliesmom

We both work full time so we have someone come in once a day - works great - 

the crate size could be an issue for the daytime...rule of thumb for a crate for potty training is no bigger than an area where they can stand up turn around, lay down etc...they don't want to soil their own area (den) - but a crate that is too big is not their area just the sleeping area is....

he seems to be telling you that by tossing it away!

Olliemom


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## Laurief

I use an Xpen with a crate attached to it, and the pad on the other side of the pen. that way they can go potty away from their sleep area. Logan is now out of his pen, as he figured out how to get out, so he is in a crate in the kitchen. He is 4 1/2 months old and I only leave him 4 hours at a time. 8 hours is a very long time for a little one. I actually dont even leave my older ones that long. I would try the pen, it requires a little less clean up and then the crate is a happy place cause it is clean. Good luck & welcome to the forum.


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## Rita

Welcome Lisa. I think Ollismom and Laurief gave you great advise. Does your crate have a divider? Make it small enough so he can not turn around.

I plan on using the crate and attaching the xpen to it. They do say that you are supposed to put the pee pads on the opposite side.

A whole day is a long time. See if you can get someone to stop by.


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## Lisa Yager Rosales

We tried the division of the crate thing. That did not work, she started making herself vomit. My husband does go home for lunch most days, unless he is on the road. Sometime that works and sometime it does not. Someone at work suggested only feeding her in the evening. We feed her around 6:00a.m. and then when we get home around 5:00. I think I will need to find someone to come in and let her out.

Thanks for your suggestions. They have been quite helpful.


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## Laurief

Lisa, at that age, she should actually be fed 3x a day. I believe that up to 4 months they need 3 meals, then two - but still puppy food until about 6 months. She def. should be fed in the morning. The xpen is really great for your situation. I would give it a try. I kept my guys in there till they could hold it for the amount of time we were out. After I started seeing less and less on the pad, I made the pen smaller - gradually - over a 3 week period. Then I just closed them in their crate when they were holding it longer & longer. Good luck.
Laurie


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## Rita

Lisa, I agree with Laurief. I am not sure about 3x a day but I know my pup is coming home with 2x a day feeding. It may only be a timing thing. Make sure you feed her in the morning and give her enough time to relieve #2 before you put her in the crate or xpen. For a small pup, it shouldn't be that long of a time before she eats that she poops.

If she is vomiting it may be separation anxiety or her food. Did you change her food? Or do you leave her food out for her during the day. If you leave her food out, most people will tell you not to do this. Just give her enough time to eat it and then take it away. That can get her on a better poopy cycle. 
If its not the food maybe it is anxiety. Some dogs get so upset they can get sick. Try leaving a radio on for her. 

If someone could stop by 1/2 way through the time she is alone that would be great. I would definitely try the xpen too. It will seperate her pee area from her den and since it is such a long day she needs the area to romp.

Good luck. It takes time. If you look at past threads, a lot of people have been in the same situation. At least you came to a good place for advise.


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## marjrc

Hi Lisa,

Welcome to the forum! Yes, as everyone has stated, your wee one is still quite young to hold it in for the whole day. Her bladder is about the size of a quarter and fills up every time she eats, drinks, plays, runs around, wakes up, stretches, yawns... well, you get the idea! lol  

I was feeding Ricky, when I got him at 9 weeks, 3x/day as well. I'm a SAHM and there was no way I could leave him for more than 2-3 hrs. at first. It's true that you need a crate that is just big enough where she's not going to want to soil it, but I see you have an x-pen for her to move around in. Good idea! 

Puppies that are bored, anxious, scared and/or not well rested will tend to "get into trouble". I don't like to say it that way because really, it isn't their fault, but I mean they'll chew inappropriate things, maybe they'll bark at the slightest thing, play aggressively, whimper all the time, or vomit from the anxiety. Pups need a lot of training - a lot of repeating and tons and tons of praise. It's a lot of work! We've all been there, done that. Hang in there and pls. don't hesitate to ask if you have questions. The Internet is a great place to search for sites that can be very helpful too!

Chat soon!


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## Lisa Yager Rosales

Thank you all for the great advise. Some ideas I have already tried. I will try others. I think the main key is she is too small. She does a great job when we are home and she can be with us. She is very loving. I will keep working with her.


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## Cosmosmom

Hi 
I have learned so much form this forum . I wish I knew about it a long time ago .
Tom is right on . I did not have an X Pen so Iused my grandson's old play pen . Now Cosmo never had an accident in his crate but as soon as he was in the play pen it was a different story . 
I want you to know I strted with a 5 lb puppy and I used the smallest crate - I did not use a crate with a divider . It was perfect for him .
Now as to what to put in the crate . I used a small bath rug I bought at Target and then then I put a babies receiving blanket (also from Target ). I also had some leftovers from my grandson . I would just throw them in the wash and use a new one . As I said he never had an accident in the crate .
I would not leave him in a long time - it is a slow process - no longer than 2 hours in the beginning and then out to potty ..
Everyone has thir own system but I wish I have read all Tom's advice when I had Asta - he was given farr too much freedom .
Live and learn I say !!


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## Rita

Lisa, I have to correct the miss info above. When I picked up my puppy the schedule is 3x a day for food. She gave me the schedule when we picked him up.


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