# Advice from Gryff's trainer regarding his dogphobia



## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

I thought I'd share this with you and get your opinions.



Hi Sandy,

I hope all is well with you. I have a question for you about Gryff. Today I took him down to New Jersey for a Havanese Playdate. I did this last year as well. Like last year, Gryff hid away from all the other dogs for four hours until we left. He did slightly better this time, but he was still miserable. He was the same way when I took him to Bowdoin Park last summer. He was panting and drooling and quite upset. So here’s my question: Do I continue to bring him to events like this with lots of dogs in the hopes that he will get used to it or do I avoid them as to not torture him when he obviously doesn’t like it? I’d like to know what you think.

Thanks,

Ivy

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Since I did not see Gryff, I can't give you an absolute. However, Gryff were my dog I would not continue to take to places where he is so overwhelmed that he gets himself upset. I would bring him to play with a dog one on one or maybe two or three dogs and see how he does. See where he feels comfortable and keep his play activity at that level. Some dogs just do not do well with a large group and for me that is perfectly fine as long as he will get along with a dog on his own in a small situation. He is such a nice dog that I would hate to have him become abnormally shy because of any possible trauma he feels when being overwhelmed. Go to the events without him or bring him and not have any expectations that he will play. If you go to Bowdoin Park, only go for as long as he seems to be ok. Leave while he is still comfortable. If you are talking about Paws in the Park, maybe don't take him onto the field. Sit quietly at a picnic table away from the crowds and let him observe. If he seems comfortable be happy with that, if he becomes stressed leave. I have had dogs who are like Gryff. I tried a few times and if they still were unhappy, I didn't push it. 

Hope this helps. Give Gryff a kiss for me and hope al is well at your house.

Sandy

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Thanks for the response Sandy. It sounds like solid advice to me. It makes me sad to see all the other dogs having so much fun while Gryff looks on, but I guess that’s just who he is!

Ivy

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Yes, just like people there are social ones and quiet, shy ones. All good people all good dogs.


Sandy


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Its a temperament thing...*

Is it normal for dogs to be at a dog park with tons of dogs they do not know? I have always wondered that. I've seen lots of fights and some very timid dogs (mine being one of them). I was told to keep taking her, that she would get used to it...she is five and never has...

Riki will play with other havanese on a havanese playdate. He will play sometimes with small dogs at the dog park.

Daisy has always stayed at my feet or jumped in my lap at any havanese playdate, and she shakes the entire time she is at the dog park. She has been a few times where there are only one or two other small dogs and she is fine with that. More than four and she gets anxious. We started taking Daisy to a special havanese training class when she was a puppy...she enjoyed the training and running around with Riki...she never played with the other havanese when they were in a large group. One on one maybe, but that is it.

Daisy loves all people. She isn't a doggy dog. I still take them to doggy playdates and to agility classes. I do not take her to the dog park unless we go off-peak hours and there are few dogs. It is just too stressful for her.

Ivy, he is a people dog, not a dog's dog. Havanese were raised to be companion animals so he is doing what he was truly born to do...be close to humans.

He is also gorgeous...let him love you and feel safe and comfy where he is happiest, with you!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

My guys are happy with other small dogs but Scooter is terrified of big dogs so we just stay away. I don't make a big deal of it, we just move on.

Gryff sounds like a sweetie!!!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

While each dog is different, I have found with time, Dora who was very timid in her first puppy class, has gotten way better. Now she can go to a playdate and while you aren't likely to find her RLH with the dogs, her tail is up the entire time. She visits with the people, looks for the food, etc. It took her many classes and many good experiences. 

I often find the dogs that stress and do bad at playdates or the dog park, their owners are often stressed and very worried about the dog. I think you have to try and go in very confident otherwise your dog thinks you are nervous too.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

All good advice, either way if it is to avoid or not avoid. I question Evye's lack of socialization with other dogs. Bentley seems to go right up to them and Evye is very timid and usually barks at them. In class, each week she seemed to get a little less excited but it was an on-leash class and I think she knew they would not get in her space. I don't know yet if it is going to get better or worse so this thread will be very helpful to me as well.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

*whoops...I forgot to say*

But Amanda, I think you are so right in saying they feed off of our reaction. I am petrified of big dogs and I don't know how not to feed my dogs off of my fear. I seem even more afraid of them now...not only will they hurt me but my dogs.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Sharlene- well, Saturday Belle was a bit of a monster at the playdate. I know everyone thinks she is cute but she shouldn't pick out dogs to beat up. I knew it wouldnt be good to have her in the car for 2 hours before a playdate. Not usually how I handle Belle and it kind of stressed me a little. Then it started storming and I know Belle has a tough time with storms. She came out her bag and set the stage being a bully to a few dogs. I was nervous about how she would do and I am sure she sensed it and read she needed to step up her game for both of us.

Yesterday, we did therapy dog for the first time and met all the dogs outside first. Belle totally ignored them. I was confident, so I think she didn't need to be the pack leader  I really feel it has a lot to do with your energy and they pick up on things you don't realize you are even doing. I was watching a lady in the dog class before ours who when the new class members arrive her dog gets crazy but she grabs the leash with 2 hands and prepares and I honestly think she gets the dog all strung up before there is even an issue. BTW, it is always easier to see when other people do it, harder to realize it yourself so kudoz to you!


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Ivy, how old is Gryff?


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## HavaBaloo (Mar 24, 2009)

Good information here, Baloo was very shy at first wouldn't go around any of the neighbourhood dogs, but I slowly introduced him through one-on-one situations. Now he has playtime with 2 of the neighbourhood dogs a few times a week and is much more comfy.

Mind you sometimes it takes 2 or 3 minutes before he will actually start to play, he is timid and coming around me then sniffing the dogs, but eventually he will RLH with the other dog.

Perhaps you can find another dog small like Gryff and work slowly at socializing. It may take time, but don't push. Maybe he just likes playing with his human family


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I have one that likes play dates because she loves to run and another who would prefer to avoid them altogether. 
Sedona does not like large gatherings of dogs. She chooses a chair to sit under or a lap to sit on and there she stays. When we have play dates at our house she goes in and sits by the front door well away from the back yard and all the dogs. At first it made me sad becuase she does love to play but then I realized that she's just a girl who likes small gatherings of no more than four dogs and that's okay.
I still take her to play dates, in fact we're going to one on the 16th, but I don't ever force her to interact with the other dogs. She is absolutely happiest with her people and with her sis, McKenna. She's my cuddly homebody.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

McKenna is a real sweetheart!
Good luck Gryff. You have come along way and soon you'll be a play date star!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Ivy, I hope we will still see you at the playdates even if Gryff stays at home. You can pretend Brady is Gryff and hang with him for the day.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Lizzie is shy and quite reserved. She too sits in my lap or on my foot and follows me everywhere when we attend playdates. She is okay with dogs coming to our home but will rarely play. She is on the sidelines watching the fun. Benji is VERY outgoing. They both have different personalities. I trained her, socialized her the same way I did Benji but she is just happy to be with her 2 humans and one furball family.


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Indie does better with just a couple of new dogs at a time. However, in January we left her and Dusty with our breeder for a few days. Indie was running from the other (six) dogs at first--even the puppy. When we came to pick them up, she was part of the pack. A few hours just may not be enough time for Gryff to get over his fear and adjust to that kind of situation.


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

Evye's Mom said:


> Ivy, how old is Gryff?


Gryff will be 2 later this month.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Mine don't do well at the dog parks, so I stopped taking them there. I was very surprised at how well they do at playdates, but they are not perfect. It takes them a while to warm up to the other dogs, but then they will play. We went to Jon and Sylvias's about a month ago, and I was very happy to see how well they got along.

Gryff is a doll, but if he is not happy in a crowd, I can understand it. I hope he will grow out of it so we can see him, and you, again.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Ivy, you got some good advice from the trainer. Yeah you don't want to overwhelm Gryff . I would take that trainer up on some training. He needs some classical conditioning. Here is an article about it. 
http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/classical-conditioning


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Thank you for posting this question. It has helped me to the let the cards fall as they may. If it gets better...wonderful. If not, I cannot force her to be comfortable. I cannot call it a dogphobia or a dog dislike, just dog uncertain.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Ivy, Tess is petrified of the dog park - when it's busy. I started taking she and Cody there in the evening when no one else was there and she loved running around and sniffing. Frequently at least one dog would show up while we were there. To start with Tess would absolutely panic. I would pick her up and put her in her Fundle (her safe spot), wait about 5 minutes and then take her out and put her down. She would be fine. Now, I don't have to pick her up if there's one or two other dogs there. She doesn't really interact with them but she doesn't panic either. Since we've been doing that I'm seeing her more willing to approach small dogs when we meet someone on a walk. I don't think she'll ever like big dogs and I've decided not to try and push it. 

Now Cody loves to play with other dogs, but does much better when there's only 1 or 2 other dogs. More than that and he's overwhelmed. I was shocked when he didn't play at the playdates. I just think it's too much for him - in that situation he'd rather come and sit on my feet.


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## Perugina (May 28, 2008)

I got Sophie at 4 mo. Her pack consisted of mom, dad, auntie havanese, an australian shepard and a collie. Big dogs are her favorite (unless she senses they don't like little dogs or want to eat her!). Her "boyfriend", the one she whines over, is the boxer across the street! When we go to the dog park, we stay on the little dog side and she tries to get everyone to play RLH. Then she goes to the fence and wants to flirt with all the big dogs. 

In our neighborhood, Sophie gets too excited when she sees a new dog on our street, she barks and hops on two feet at the end of her leash because she wants to meet them! I then ask if Sophie can meet the new dog. I try to get her to calm down, especially if it is a big dog, and turn her around so the new dog can sniff butt first (it's how they greet and get a sense of eachother). I then take her around back so she can do the same. Face to face with a big dog (or fearful nervous dog) for the first time usually scares one or the other into a fearful aggressive nip. Once the sniffing has been completed, Sophie will try all her tricks to get the other dog to play with her.

How social your dog will be probably depends on temperament and how much he was socialized early in life. I agree with the previous advice about starting one-on-one and gradually adding in more and different dogs. The best advice is to stay calm and confident so your dog will know you are in control, this will ease the fear and anxiety. 

Sophie would love to show Gryffy a good time and introduce him to all her buddies! :cheer2::grouphug:


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

let me know if you want Henry as part of small playgroup for Gryff one day . . . they have fun together. . .


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Ivy, I am so happy you started this post. I read about a leash off dog park not to far from me and we were going to go today and did not make it. I have never been to one and didn't think about what could happen or how the boys might really react to it. We don't have a fence in yard and my thoughts and visualizations were the boys running free together, hair flying back and loving it. 

When the boys were in puppy kindergarden classes Bailey received an invitation to a tea party. When I inquired "what is it" and why not Simba too, it was explained that Bailey needed to be socialize more around other dogs. So we went and let me tell you it was a bloody nightmare. There were at least 25 dogs in one room and poor bailey was the smallest, youngest of them all. These dogs were running around like crazy, barking, jumping, grabbing one another and poor Bailey clutched onto me for dear life. I couldn't put him down in that mess, however, it made Bailey more wary than anything.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Thank you for this thread. Smarty had all the socialization as a young do; basic obedience, 4 secessions of agility, conformation classes and shows. No problems at all and loved the other dogs. Her very best friend is my DS’s standard poodle, but do not ask her to go to a small dog play date and have fun. Every dog that has ever been mean to her was small. Last Saturday she was a perimeter girl, not interested at all in the other dogs or treats. 

She has been very accepting of little Galen, they play and rough house so I am hoping this will be a positive experience for her with a little dog.


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## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

Great thread! I have been meaning to write about this issue with Nala. Her least favorite dogs are male Havanese. She likes large, gentle, herding like dogs-minauture australian sheperds, border collies that are calm. Her boyfriend is a grey hound/rhodesion ridgeback mix! He is very gentle though-if I try to give them both treats he will often let Nala eat both!

The main issue is she has a horrible way of meeting dogs. She will snarl agressively before the meet and greet even happens. Most dogs in my town ignore her but I fear that a dog will bite back. Mostly we avoid dogs on the street and visit dogs that I know personally. If there are loose dogs around I will pick her up. 

She snarled horribly at my sister's dog several times but once the dog was scared of her they got along quite well.

Please help! She has made so much progress in all other areas. I live in a very small town and we have gone to the dog trainer. We will probably try and take the class again. It started with her barking at the group of dogs and eventually she was able to heel and weave through all the other dogs. But it didn't seem to carry over into the way she meets dogs on the street.
I did read about a technique of having one dog in the middle and walking her around it and giving her treats for being calm. Maybe I should go back to trying that.


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