# Kinda of Quiet Around Here.....



## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I miss you guys!


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I have been thinking the same thing.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm with you. :hug:


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I think it's the elephant in the room that is keeping everyone away, if you know what I mean. :eyebrows: I think (hope) that some people are just keeping a "wait and see" attitude right now and that's why it's quiet. I miss the good ole days, too.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Yeah and I know it is back to school and back to college time, transitional time and all that...

I can't believe summer is over already, seems like it just started but I'll be glad to get back to my Fall/Winter routine, I seem to be more productive for some reason..


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Abby says "We're here!"


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

We're here too!


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

You could try branching out.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Maybe someone needs to hop on the table and dance, we should hire some Chippendales? ound: Spike the kool aid? ound:...


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

Hey guys I am here too....not sure for how long though. Just keeping an open mind.


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

I'll take one for the team and stand on tables and dance around.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

you don't have choose between the two.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Yungster said:


> I'll take one for the team and stand on tables and dance around.


ound:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Yungster said:


> I'll take one for the team and stand on tables and dance around.


well where is the youtube link Yung? 

I miss everyone too... and I miss the stories!!!! just taking a break from the politics of it all. I will be back.

so let me leave y'all with a story... Did you know if your Neezer eats lavender and uke: it does not smell too bad!!!! as I left the house today, I noticed Cash was pretty interested in a basket of dried lavender I leave on the floor. It is not new, and he has never given it the time of day before so I did not think twice. When I walked in our mud room smelled intensely like lavender and sure enough the poor little guy left a puddle of grass mixed with little lavender buds (and a some of my sprigs are missing their heads...) I know lavender is supposed to be calming and soothing and antibacterial, do you think my boy knew he needed it?


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Aw Missy. Maybe he did. Might not be a bad idea to give it to people who need it too.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm here!!!! Looking forward to cooler weather so I can take Whimsy out in the yard and run around a bit more!


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Well for a change of pace, I went shopping today. Got two pretty tops to wear to Nashville next week, bought an antique twin bed and finished the day off with margarita's in the kitchen. Got a new Faye Kellerman book downloaded to the Nook and off to read.


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## ls-indy (Apr 10, 2008)

Luciledodd said:


> Well for a change of pace, I went shopping today. Got two pretty tops to wear to Nashville next week, bought an antique twin bed and finished the day off with margarita's in the kitchen. Got a new Faye Kellerman book downloaded to the Nook and off to read.


Sounds great to me! We did lime margaritas last night... I need to look at new books to download too. Vacationing in Nashville? I really like Tennessee. My youngest went to school in Memphis (soccer player....) and we used to come down for games all the time....


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

No business, TN Engineering Assoc. and seminars--boring. But My eldest daughter is driving up from Huntsville on Wed night to celebrate her 49th birthday with a good dinner and celebration with adult beverages. My youngest child's wife is on baby watch and we may be at the hospital with newborn. I will suffer through the seminars until happy hour. I really am to old to remember anything new; but state licensing laws make you take 16 hrs of continuing education anyway to keep your license. Next year I am just going to retire my license, skip the seminars and go straight to the bar.


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm here......glad you are too!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

My mind is a bit closed at the moment. :bolt:


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm here. Been taking a few days to cool off. It's been so hot and humid this month but the last few days have finally been good enough to get us all out for some walks and drives.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm here too--I have just been crazy busy with my youngest special needs child starting back to school and my only daughter heading off to college. It has been a strange experience........


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Riki and Daisy are in the House*

Getting ready for a foreign exchange student from Italy. She has a little dog there that looks a lot like them...perhaps it is a Bolognese...

School starts next week...and it is finally summer around here!


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

I'm here too! 
Just can't find the time as much as I used to but I still try to drop in now and then and keep up on the latest gossip...lol


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

I am about to go on my first camping trip in 17 years..  My wife is excited and she dragged me to buy one of those pop up tents... I'm skeptical but I've learned this: happy wife, happy life.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I'm here too. I have noticed the forum is busiest in Winter and during snow storms. I hope everyone keeps in mind the people on the forum set the tone. I miss them too.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Julie said:


> I'm here too--I have just been crazy busy with my youngest special needs child starting back to school and my only daughter heading off to college. It has been a strange experience........


Is Lacey excited? How is Mama doing? When my daughter went all the way to Denver to college I cried & cried......lol

Is Robbie all settled in?


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Julie said:


> I'm here too--I have just been crazy busy with my youngest special needs child starting back to school and my only daughter heading off to college. *It has been a strange experience*........


I know  Jake and I have always been REALLY close and I have gotten more emails, texts and IM's and even some old timer phone calls from him the last 2 days than I have the last 2 weeks! lol It warms my heart that he misses me and he actually said he can now 'appreciate some of the things I do'..

Translation: I'm bringing home all my dirty laundry, mom. ound: hah. IDK, Its tough, but I am trying to enjoy this as watching them blossom even more into themselves.....


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Yungster said:


> I am about to go on my first camping trip in 17 years..  My wife is excited and she dragged me to buy one of those pop up tents... I'm skeptical but *I've learned this: happy wife, happy life*.


Smart man!! lol

Camping? My idea of roughing it is living without WiFi ound: I am a mosquito magnet, too.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Julie, I imagine the thought of your 'little girl" going off on her own has to feel like a mixed blessing. She's grown into such a beautiful young woman. My thoughts will be with you. At least with Robbie at home you won't be feeling the empty nest syndrome. hope he's doing well.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Dexter is so grown up*

So how are your two doing now? Isn't it great to have a pair of wild ones! Mine still love to play with each other, especially after baths and eating...


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Since our DS, DDIL, their two babies (17 mos. and 7 wks. old) moved in w/us six weeks ago, I've been lucky to even get a chance to read a post or two, let alone post something of my own. 

Hopefully, things will return to normal around here in a few weeks and I'll be able to devote more time to my Havanese friends.


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## Pattie (Jun 25, 2008)

Yung,

I'm afraid this is off topic, but you have not answered my PMs regarding the 4 videos that I want to remove from the Forum. I sent you two PMS responding to your question about which forum they were in and it's been a couple of days without a response from you. Please let me know how I can remove the videos. Thanks again.

Pattie


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## Cailleach (Jan 30, 2010)

Yungster said:


> I am about to go on my first camping trip in 17 years..  My wife is excited and she dragged me to buy one of those pop up tents... I'm skeptical but I've learned this: happy wife, happy life.


Absolutely...lol. Happy wife, happy life. Hope you have fun.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Eva, I'm always happy to see you here. I hope your world is a much happier place these days. I suspect it is. My thoughts continue to be with you.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

It is pretty discouraging, I used to get up every morning with a lot of posts to read. Some people post in the middle of the night. I hope that everyone settles down and comes back.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Leslie said:


> Since our DS, DDIL, their two babies (17 mos. and 7 wks. old) moved in w/us six weeks ago, I've been lucky to even get a chance to read a post or two, let alone post something of my own.
> 
> Hopefully, things will return to normal around here in a few weeks and I'll be able to devote more time to my Havanese friends.


A couple of years ago we had our DDIL who was heavily pregnant at the time and our 2 older grandchildren staying with us for about 3 months,anyway I didn't seem to have time to turn around,but boy didn't DH and I miss them when they moved out even though it was only a stones throw away.And we still saw them most days.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Lucile, Not sure if that is your name or not, but you know who I am referring too. <grin> The shock of the ownership change and the changes that will be made as a result of that has effected the forum. Change isn't always easy for many of us. Time heals. Time allows for true "colors" to be shown. I am not so sure this forum will completely heal from what has happened. It is all the wonderful people that made this forum something of value. Some will leave forever, some will come and go, some will stay and new ones will join. It is sad that the new administrator here has already banned some people for speaking their opinion. That isn't how this forum was ever handled before.

In fact, I may now be banned for responding to your post on this thread.


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

I wasn't aware anyone was banned. I am here and other places,too. Since Mindy is a mixed maltese/yorkie i am on some maltese and yorkie forums,too. I am also getting busier with my silk painting as the Fall and Holiday season approaches, so my time on the Forum generally starts getting less at this time of the year.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Is that true, some have been banned? Who and how many? I figured if anyone got banned it would be me with controversial topics that really got people talking. I know that a lot have left for a time; but was hoping they would come back. I am not into change and have been keeping on waiting to see what would happen. 

Yung do you have an answer to this?


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Yes, Lucile it seems many of the old members can no longer post to this Forum. No notification or anything so I’ve been told. It is such a shame as this has been such a comfortable place for most of us for years. Now we will have to watch what we post or PM people. 

I would like to think this is a technical error but I don’t think so. If I disappear you will know it was not by my choice as for now. This is such a shame as most thought things would work out in time.

All of us would like to hear Yung’s explanation for people not being able to log on any more and the reason for "banning them".


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

People have been banned?? Seriously?? That's nuts! It used to be the only thing that got a person banned from this forum was blatant flaming of another member. 
Are you guys reading private messages, perhaps?? If so, why? What part of private doesn't apply here?
This place has changed and that is sad. It used to be the FIRST place I logged into every morning. I guess not anymore, starting tomorrow.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

:grouphug:


Kathy said:


> Lucile, Not sure if that is your name or not, but you know who I am referring too. <grin> The shock of the ownership change and the changes that will be made as a result of that has effected the forum. Change isn't always easy for many of us. Time heals. Time allows for true "colors" to be shown. I am not so sure this forum will completely heal from what has happened. It is all the wonderful people that made this forum something of value. Some will leave forever, some will come and go, some will stay and new ones will join. It is sad that the new administrator here has already banned some people for speaking their opinion. That isn't how this forum was ever handled before.
> 
> In fact, I may now be banned for responding to your post on this thread.


:grouphug:


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

If peope have been incendiary in their remarks I can certainly understand the desire to remove that from an aready difficult situation. If not, I'd want to know why.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Granted, I haven't read every post but I haven't seen any incendiary posts other than people getting upset that they cannot remove information and photos they've posted. I think that's understandable. 
This thing took a lot of us by surprise even though hints leaked out. Going "Corporate" isn't for everyone and I don't blame those who have resisted it.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Many people have been banned. I find it quite sad and childish.


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## klomanchiodo (Jul 5, 2010)

I'm here, I'm learning too much from everyone to run for the hills. I appreciate all of you!


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Hmmm... I was having trouble posting on another Forum that VS owns, but it is a technical issue- they are trying to find a way to not let BYB and puppy mill ads show up with other google ads which would be wonderful. Are the people sure they have actually been banned as opposed to it being a technical problem?


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Positive Jocelyn.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Does anyone know the reason they are being banned?


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Scooter's Family said:


> Positive Jocelyn.


No comment :frusty: I know so little but what I do know, it 'STINKS' !!!


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Scooter's Family said:


> Positive Jocelyn.


then I find it very sad


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Hi, 

In response to what some of you have heard about people being banned, let me clarify some things. I feel I have been very open to people's feedback and as you guys have seen, we have made a lot of progress. There are some users who are deadset on seeing the demise of this community. Not surprisingly, some of these users are the ones who started another site. That in itself, I have ZERO issues with. However, after I have attempted on numerous occasions to a) keep an open mind about the concerns that the community has had b) made changes to address them and c) given the entire community a committment that we would explore every avenue possible to satisfy the remaining concerns, said users still found things to pick at. It went along the lines of us doing something and then they would say, "well, I don't like that you haven't done this other thing," and we would fix that other thing and they would still find something to pick at.

I don't know about them but what I told them is that I have made a decision to move forward and try to restore things as close to normal as possible here. I have no interest in going back and forth with them in public to address their issues that I will never be able to convince them about in the first place.

One user has been spamming some of our members in private since last week because some members reported it to me in private. I removed his access to POST (and I did explain this to him in PM) but he still had access to his PM and on the weekend, I had another user PM me asking if we have anything to do with that other site because this user sent him/her a PM solitciting him/her to join. 

Then I received another 2 PMs that another user was solitciting our members about this other site on the weekend too. I removed that users' access immediately. 

There are two more users whose access I have removed TEMPORARILY because of their pattern of behavior towards us since the transfer combined with their association with this new site (i.e. being a mod or admin or founder of the new site) gave me reasons to believe that they would continue where the other two users left off.

I am serious about working together with the community here to make things as they always have been. If I'm correct, the only outstanding issue right now is the ads and as I have said on numerous occasions, we are exploring every possible avenue to not have any puppy ads appear here and until we can come to a satisfactory solution for everyone involved, we won't put any ads up period.

If you are serious about seeing this community remain as it was/grow, I have no issues if you want to give your honest feedback. I think I have shown that in all the threads that I have responded to. There comes a point though where hopefully, you will be able to work with me on some issues too or at the very least, give me the benefit of doubt until somethings happens that you don't agree with.


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## bethany (Apr 12, 2008)

I hear the person that owns this now promotes puppy mills


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## bethany (Apr 12, 2008)

Hey you guys theres a new place chat please join us


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## bethany (Apr 12, 2008)

Puppymills bite


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Oh, come on now, that's too much. Why would you post that kind of comment?? Just ugly.


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## bethany (Apr 12, 2008)

This place sucks now


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## bethany (Apr 12, 2008)

Truth


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

:nono:This is exactly what I'm talking about. Not surprised who the above user is.


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

I don't know who the user is above but this is the kind of stuff I have been dealing with in PM. I really have no time for users like this and if you disagree with that, I'm sorry. I am not about to waste this community's time engaging in an us versus them mentality. You guys are free to visit whatever sites you want. I can't concern myself with what other people do. I can only concern myself with that goes on here and how we can make things better and keep this as the #1 havanese related site online.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

bethany said:


> This place sucks now


I'm usually quiet about these things but I truly suggest, whoever you are, if you don't like it here, get the hell out!!!


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

:whoo:


pjewel said:


> I'm usually quiet about these things but I truly suggest, whoever you are, if you don't like it here, get the hell out!!!


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

I agree with Yung - we should give him the benefit of the doubt. It seems he is trying to work things out but a lot of people haven't given him time to do it. Has it even been two weeks? I miss the way things were, too, but it may get there again if we're patient!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Now this is really funny. I believe in free speech and I believe everyone has a right to their opinion, but I personally want to ping this misanthrope off this particular planet. Yung, can you give me very temporary access to the ejector button . . . please!!


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

:whoo: Thank you Kathie. All I ask is for you guys to see if we actually do anything going forward that goes against your beliefs for you dogs. If we do, then you can make a decision of whether or not you want to continue to support this community. That's all I ask. 

Aside from that, I think everything is back to as normal as it was before.. we have the TOS clarified and that will be up by Tuesday latest. All the editing permissions have been restored (they were originally limited after the transfer because it's a default setting our tech team users). The ads aren't here. Actually, we might be advertising for HRI soon. Cross your fingers. 



Kathie said:


> I agree with Yung - we should give him the benefit of the doubt. It seems he is trying to work things out but a lot of people haven't given him time to do it. Has it even been two weeks? I miss the way things were, too, but it may get there again if we're patient!


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

pjewel said:


> Now this is really funny. I believe in free speech and I believe everyone has a right to their opinion, but I personally want to ping this misanthrope off this particular planet. Yung, can you give me very temporary access to the ejector button . . . please!!


LOL... I took care of Bethany's permissions already. Sorry.  You can have the next one. Deal?


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Well I am for going forward with this forum. Count me in.
Lucile


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Dang I got so excited that I forgot to hit the post button. Anyway as I tried to say, I am in for the duration. The previous poster was way out of line and I can't condone the behavior. It is something a teen-ager would do.


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Hey Yung- a little off topic, but several of us are still having trouble posting on the SM forum. It seems most of us are Mac users. Is the tech team working again?

ETA- I agree that the Bethany postings were way out of line!!!!


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

LOL... Jocelyn, let me look into that on Monday because if it's the same issue, I need to talk to our tech team. Sorry I can't get to it right away.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Yungster said:


> LOL... I took care of Bethany's permissions already. Sorry.  You can have the next one. Deal?


Thank you.  I have to say, I think anyone has the right to start up a group if they want to. To be honest with you I thought long and hard about leaving here myself when this shocking news hit about the changes in our dear forum family. This is home to me and my furry family. I've made friends here I truly care about. Many of them have made a decision to go elsewhere and that's fine. I, personally, will truly miss them. But to deliberately try to destroy another person's business and a place that some of us choose to give a fair chance to is ill advised, mean spirited and just plain wrong.

Whether this venue will continue or not should be left to the personal, private decisions of the people who visit here and the future direction the new owners take, not rumor or innuendo designed to stab this place in the heart.

I'm disappointed in the people who choose not to play fair.


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

pjewel, thanks for your kind words. Here's the thing everyone... honestly, it doesn't matter to me what site everyone is using. Every community has something to offer and I have learned that is especially the case on the internet. I am hoping that when people come to our house, they will be respectful and mindful of the people here that call it home.


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Yungster said:


> LOL... Jocelyn, let me look into that on Monday because if it's the same issue, I need to talk to our tech team. Sorry I can't get to it right away.


that's fine- I figured you had plenty on your plate right now!!! Just happened to see you were on line and thought I'd let you know


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## j.j.'s mom (Aug 16, 2009)

i have been lurking around, but in general really haven't posted much since i joined.
but i really am pretty outspoken and usually stay a little "mum" since i have a reputation for putting my foot in my mouth.

i believe people are basically good... 
and we are only human. so we will always make mistakes. and we can let those things go just like we do when our havs misbehave.
(j.j. thinks everyone is good, especially if they have a dog treat in their hand, bitch kitty and fat cat think something else)
i believe we are lucky to own the best dogs in the world.
we all have a lot to share with each other.
change is hard. 
yes, this forum is "business" now..
and being a business, it is in their best interest to work with the membership.
it is sad that a lot of the posting is going on somewhere else...
yep, i admit to going "there" because there is a lot of good stuff being shared.
there is just too much other crap going on in the world, and
life is just too **** short!!
can't we all just get along.. yes, have differences of opinion, but just get along??

so j.j. and i are still here...

i just hope i don't have to be emailing yung later in the week begging to have this post removed!!!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Geri,
You put it eloquently..
and...
all of these pseudo-backup-anonymous-member names that popped up during the political and silk threads are showing back up...pretty coincidental, ehh? Course I don't believe too much in coincidence these days.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Those recent postings were out of line and childish. It's one thing to disagree and leave for another outlet to discuss Havanese, but quite another to make posts like that. I hope it isn't anyone I know and respect. If it is, that respect is now gone.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

mckennasedona said:


> Those recent postings were out of line and childish. It's one thing to disagree and leave for another outlet to discuss Havanese, but quite another to make posts like that. I hope it isn't anyone I know and respect. If it is, that respect is now gone.


I don't like to add 2 + 2 and come up with 5 but it would certainly appear to be someone with an axe to grind.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> Geri,
> You put it eloquently..
> and...
> all of these pseudo-backup-anonymous-member names that popped up during the political and silk threads are showing back up...pretty coincidental, ehh? Course I don't believe too much in coincidence these days.


That never even occurred to me. Maybe I'm slow.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I find this all very sad. It was a great community here.
Maybe I'll delete my accounts from both sites. Who needs all the controversy? I get enough of that at work. If I spent less time on the computer, I could spend more time with my Havanese.


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## Dawna (Aug 3, 2006)

[/QUOTE] I am not about to waste this community's time engaging in an us versus them mentality.[/QUOTE]

Yung, 
As far as I can tell, you have been reasonable and completely accommodating since day one...if some people had adopted a 'wait and see' attitude...they might have been pleasantly surprised...and if not, well there is always that red 'x' in the corner of their browser...eace:
Dawna


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

mckennasedona said:


> I find this all very sad. It was a great community here.
> Maybe I'll delete my accounts from both sites. Who needs all the controversy? I get enough of that at work. If I spent less time on the computer, I could spend more time with my Havanese.


Susan, I can certainly understand how you feel. It's been more than draining, but ultimately it's all about our babies and I'm sure you'll stay somewhere. And unless you have to sign a "do not visit" clause in your membership from one site to the other, you might actually be able to stay on both. For me, I've loved you and your babies.

Ultimately it may just be a function of time. This has been such a hot issue and so painful for so many people.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

pjewel said:


> so painful for so many people.


yes.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

This is sort of like yelling 'fire fire fire' and there has yet to be a fire, I know we were all a little freaked out when the rumors started, but I am really happy to see Yung reaching out and listening to us, and asking for our input and suggestions.. Isn't that what we wanted? To be heard and have a say in our community?

I could understand all of this better if Yung said 'so what, leave if you don't like it', but that *didn't* happen, so why not just wait and see how it pans out before running for the hills

Some changes can be good, if the community splits, it splits, no need to dwell and sulk, just move on in whatever direction feels right to you and respect the decisions of others...things sometimes happen for a reason.


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## Pattie (Jun 25, 2008)

Okay. I'm here occasionally, too, waiting to see what happens. However, I have asked Yung to respond to my request to have 4 videos removed from this site. I have yet to have him respond -- and yes, I have PMd him. would like to remain on both forums about my beloved Havanese. If any of you have any pull with Yung, please ask him to help me out here. Thanks for any assistance you can provide.


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

Pattie said:


> Okay. I'm here occasionally, too, waiting to see what happens. However, I have asked Yung to respond to my request to have 4 videos removed from this site. I have yet to have him respond -- and yes, I have PMd him. would like to remain on both forums about my beloved Havanese. If any of you have any pull with Yung, please ask him to help me out here. Thanks for any assistance you can provide.


Pattie,
I think Yung change it so that if you go to those threads where you posted the videos, you should be able to edit your post by removing the link....then your videos would no longer be posted.


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## Pattie (Jun 25, 2008)

Heather,

Glad you made it home safely from the shows today. Love ya'. 

I tried to do that already on my own and was unable to do so -- that is why I contacted Yung for help. He asked me where the threads were located. I told him and have not heard back from him yet. I'm not asking for much, just a little technical help. I was able to remove my photos without assistance.

I don't mean to be rude, but I just wanted to get the videos off the site until I've decided to stay or go. Meanwhile, I continue my association here in hopes that things will eventually be more than tolerable.


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

understand , I just went to one of my old threads that had videos and was able to remove them, so not sure why you are not able to
it was a fun weekend at the shows...catch ya at the next ones


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Just a little FYI to anyone making new usernames and spamming...it's very easy for the admins to see your IP address and match it with that of an existing member.

I understand that some people no longer want to be a part of this site, that some members have moved fully to the new forum, but there are those of us who feel like we are being pulled in two directions. If members/admins of the new site are posting childish garbage on here, it's certainly NOT going to attract members to join that site. Not saying that anyone from the new site is trolling, just saying that it would be a terrible idea.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

I love this site,and I totally blame it and it's members for making me get a new baby!!It's all your fault,well thats what I tell DH!LOL.So although I have joined the new site as well, this is my first love and I will continue to post here,but keep in touch with the others on the other forum,Oh my how much more time am I going to spend on Havanese chat.I'm sure everything will work out fine in the end.In the mean time we have twice as much posting to do!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Many of us belong to several Havanese sites. We have friends on all of these. This forum had member groups leave before and it survived with no problem. As long as we are comfortable and happy there is no reason we have to choose one over the other.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I am still here. I am just sitting back watching and waiting to see what happens.

I still have my concerns regarding the ads and what will happen. I corresponded with Yung via PMs about 2 weeks ago and he stated that there will be ads, and that puppy mill ads will slip through. I appreciate that he has now recognized how just one puppy mill ad is unacceptable and is now trying to ensure this doesn't happen before putting ads up.

I also corresponded with Yung in those PMs regarding his original proposal for a TOS in which he stated:

"will say this to close: We reserve the right to remove/leave whatever content you post onto this site. This is not up for discussion. You have to remember that the internet is a form of communication that is no different than speech, writing on paper or other forms of communication. You cannot just post anything you want and expect to have it deleted at YOUR convenience. It doesn't work that way. 

In the same manner that when you speak something in person to someone, if you make a mistake about it, you cannot just say, "oops, I take that back" and pretend as if it didn't happen. This is why you always need to consider what you write on the internet BEFORE you post it, whether it's here or on FB or on any publicly viewable site. This goes for pictures, videos or anything of that matter"

Again, I appreciate that he has changed this statement and now will allow us to remove our photos or posts.

What I am trying to say is that with the inconsistency I have seen on the part of VS up to this point, I think it is fair to still be skeptical and mistrusting. With that being said, I am still here and taking the wait and see approach. I am happy to see the tone of VS is now one where they want to work with this group and make sure we are happy, but I can also see why some members jumped ship and won't be back. Based on the original statements of VS, I was tempted to do so.


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Pattie said:


> Heather,
> 
> Glad you made it home safely from the shows today. Love ya'.
> 
> ...


Pattie, sorry I haven't gotten back to you yet. It wasn't on purpose. I have received a bunch of PMs in the past week and yours got lost in the shuffle. As I mentioned in my original PM to you (and this is what I ask every user who has PM'ed me to remove content), I need a SPECIFIC link to the thread where the content is. You only gave me the forum name and the thread title. This is just something I make a habit of when users ask me to delete things -- it's to make sure we're on the same page and I am deleting the right content. I have had many instances on other sites where I was asked to delete content and the user provided me the wrong name of a thread title (human error of course) and it caused everyone regret.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Pattie said:


> Okay. I'm here occasionally, too, waiting to see what happens. However, I have asked Yung to respond to my request to have 4 videos removed from this site. I have yet to have him respond -- and yes, I have PMd him. would like to remain on both forums about my beloved Havanese. If any of you have any pull with Yung, please ask him to help me out here. Thanks for any assistance you can provide.


Someone suggested that I delete my "Bump" posts from "Importance of good breeder" post. I tried to do it myself and not being a tech savvy person, I was stumped when I couldn't do it after trying a number of times, I pmed Yung and he offered to delete them for me if I sent him the link to the thread, which I did. I do hope that he will be able to do it when he has a breather.

I do hope that yours is taken care of too.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Poornima, I wouldn't worry about those 'bump' posts, unless you are looking into getting all of your posts deleted.

It's been a roller coaster ride, I can tell you that.  I have friends in several places and am trying to do what feels good to me. If I had nothing better to do, I'd be on both forums and on all the yahoo lists to help support all Hav addicts! lol I won't support an admin team that bans w/o discussion, that closes threads when things go in a direction they don't like or that allows ads of questionable value to be displayed on our pages. A 'wait and see' attitude is probably wise, but there's a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, so we'll see. ((hugs))


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

Poornima: Remind me to add to the TOS that you are not allowed to use the "BUMP" smiley anymore. Just you. 

P.S. I think I got all your bump posts in that thread...all 25 plus of them.ound:


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

if that thread, which is so very important gets deleted because of a "bump" or you get banned because of "bumping" it up that seems really wrong.

this whole banning and "shushing" thing seems pretty North Korea.

but, just saying this i'm playing with fire aren't i?

i guess i don't understand why people couldn't just ignore the solicitations from others if they didn't want to join the new site. i highly doubt they would have had multiple requests. as long as these requests were not done by constant new threads, i'd have to argue that it really cannot be compared to a new business springing from an old "stealing customers."

why?

because this appeared/appears to be a place to build friendships and community vs. a business. but obviously, most things are not what they appear to be.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

marjrc said:


> Poornima, I wouldn't worry about those 'bump' posts, unless you are looking into getting all of your posts deleted.
> 
> It's been a roller coaster ride, I can tell you that.  I have friends in several places and am trying to do what feels good to me. If I had nothing better to do, I'd be on both forums and on all the yahoo lists to help support all Hav addicts! lol I won't support an admin team that bans w/o discussion, that closes threads when things go in a direction they don't like or that allows ads of questionable value to be displayed on our pages. A 'wait and see' attitude is probably wise, but there's a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, so we'll see. ((hugs))


Agreed, although right now I am having a hard time taking in all of this drama, I am still here and will wait and see. I am part of other lists as well and this is an absolute first for me. I guess people who love their havanese are extremely passionate people. Although this is definitely a plus for our breed, I hope that this entire thing will boil over and things can resume as normal. :grouphug:


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Yungster said:


> Poornima: Remind me to add to the TOS that you are not allowed to use the "BUMP" smiley anymore. Just you.
> 
> P.S. I think I got all your bump posts in that thread...all 25 plus of them.ound:


Can you tell how passionate I am about getting a puppy from a reputable breeder? :biggrin1:

Thanks for deleting the posts.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Posh's Mom said:


> *if that thread, which is so very important gets deleted because of a "bump" or you get banned because of "bumping" it up that seems really wrong.*
> this whole banning and "shushing" thing seems pretty North Korea.
> 
> but, just saying this i'm playing with fire aren't i?
> ...


Bold mine. Amy, I think you misunderstood (please pardon if I am wrong), it was only the bumps, not the thread. I wouldn't want to delete the thread at all. It was not my thread to beging with and moreover, I fully agree with the content of it. I would want the would-be Havanese owners to educate themselves about risks of buying from petshops and BYBs and supporting puppy mills through thier business.

Best,
Poornima


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

marjrc said:


> *Poornima, I wouldn't worry about those 'bump' posts, unless you are looking into getting all of your posts deleted.*
> 
> *It's been a roller coaster ride, I can tell you that.  I have friends in several places and am trying to do what feels good to me. *
> 
> ...


It was only the bumps from that thread, Marj.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

What is wrong with "Bumps"?


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

I think this whole thing is being misunderstood. NOTHING is wrong with BUMPS.. I didn't ask them to be removed...heck, if Poornima didn't ask me to remove them, I wouldn't have even known they were there. The comment I made about Poornima and the TOS was a joke in case anyone is having other thoughts.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

LOL Sandi, that's what I was wondering! I know it's only bumps, but if it bothered you, Poornima, to have them in there, then hey. Whatever works for you!  Amy, I agree with you.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

If you've ever played telephone as a child, this is beginning to feel much like that. What originally was said, got translated into something so far afield as to be almost funny. Poornima asked for her bump posts to be removed. They were. No drama there.


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## Dawna (Aug 3, 2006)

ound: Telephone game.. that's SO IT...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mckennasedona said:


> Those recent postings were out of line and childish. It's one thing to disagree and leave for another outlet to discuss Havanese, but quite another to make posts like that. I hope it isn't anyone I know and respect. If it is, that respect is now gone.


It wasn't even anyone who was a regular poster here. Weird.

I have joined, and enjoy the "other group". I've told Yung that in private. Things are still stilted and cautious here, and I hope, if/as VS proves itself, things will improve here again.

I do know that for some of the people who have permanently left, even VS's efforts to keep puppy mill ads off this forum is not enough. The fact that they condone them on other sites means they are part of the problem, not part of the solution. I can certainly understand this point of view, and it makes me feel torn, using this forum. OTOH, I DON'T want to lose touch with my other friends here who HAVEN'T chosen to join the new forum.

Maybe VS will have an epiphany as a result of our protests over puppy mill ads here. I know that "pet forums" are only a small part of what they do. For people who are not passionate about dogs, (or at least animal wellfare in general) the whole issue of puppy mills is probably a non-issue. If they ARE a company that tries to behave ethically, this will make them re-think their position on puppy mill ads in general. Wouldn't it be great if they were banned from ALL VS pet forums!?!?

So for the time being, I will maintain a foot in both worlds with mixed emotions about both. We'll see how things develop in the future.


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## Diana (Oct 23, 2007)

krandall said:


> *Maybe VS will have an epiphany as a result of our protests over puppy mill ads here. I know that "pet forums" are only a small part of what they do. For people who are not passionate about dogs, (or at least animal wellfare in general) the whole issue of puppy mills is probably a non-issue. If they ARE a company that tries to behave ethically, this will make them re-think their position on puppy mill ads in general. Wouldn't it be great if they were banned from ALL VS pet forums!?!?*
> 
> So for the time being, I will maintain a foot in both worlds with mixed emotions about both. We'll see how things develop in the future.


That would be wonderful!eace:


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Yungster, maybe you can answer this to me. If you guys use Google ads, would it benefit us to send protests to them about not filtering and allowing such people to advertise?? Or maybe they have a filter to simply weed out ANYTHING pet oriented. 

Although it would be really nice to see ads for products, if would ok having NO products advertised, if it was lumped into the "pet oriented" weed out. 
Does that make sense??


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

I honestly don't know what Google's response would be. From a business standpoint, I'm sure they receive tons of concerns in terms of what they advertise for -- for a company that brings in billions of dollars in ad revenue each year, I'm sure someone has a beef with them.



Laurief said:


> Yungster, maybe you can answer this to me. If you guys use Google ads, would it benefit us to send protests to them about not filtering and allowing such people to advertise?? Or maybe they have a filter to simply weed out ANYTHING pet oriented.
> 
> Although it would be really nice to see ads for products, if would ok having NO products advertised, if it was lumped into the "pet oriented" weed out.
> Does that make sense??


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

krandall said:


> It wasn't even anyone who was a regular poster here. Weird.
> 
> I have joined, and enjoy the "other group". I've told Yung that in private. Things are still stilted and cautious here, and I hope, if/as VS proves itself, things will improve here again.
> 
> ...


This line of thinking won't change any of the questionable ads. Its like getting mad at a guppy (Yung/vs) in a large sea (Google) (sorry, Yung no offense in the guppy comment)

IF this place was filled with puppy mill and byb' ads and they were flashing all over the place like a Las Vegas Casino, I'd be gone..too, but that hasn't happened yet.

Food for thought:
(just directed at the general audience here, not the OP)

WHY is everyone mad at the fish in the sea, instead of the sea? Is everyone going to boycott Google? and boycott EVERY place that has a google ad?

Has anyone written to Google to ask them about removing these ads from their system?

If Melissa would've put google ads on here to help pay for her forum expenses, would we be in a uproar? Or would we have focused at Google?

If a person really wants to see these ads off of the internet, the efforts should be focused on a broader spectrum... even if they aren't aired on this particular site, which is just a small spec in the big sea, the puppy buyers will see them at every corner of any search they do for any related products, services, etc.

Leaving HF wont' fix any problems or stop these ads from finding their way to all pet related sites..


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

We are on the same wave length today, Laurie! :kiss:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thumperlove said:


> Leaving HF wont' fix any problems or stop these ads from finding their way to all pet related sites..


I'm not saying I agree with the rational... I'm still here. However, I have to respect it. I respect people who choose to only buy Fair Trade coffee too. It may be a drop in the ocean (sticking to our water theme) but eventually drops can add up. I don't know... maybe the people who have chosen to leave do boycott Google. I haven't asked them.

In the end, people will do what's right for them.

Best,


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I'm posting this twice 

This makes me sick. Just when I thought everything was going to be fine.

My friend Ann and I wanted to test the PM system here. She sent two PMs one to me and one to another close friend. In it she invited us to checl out the new forum. We reported it to no one. She is now gone from the member’s list as Scooter’s Family and cannot get into this Forum to post.

Comments Yung on Private Messages. Or is there another reason Ann can no longer post.


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## Administrator (Aug 5, 2010)

I already commented on this in your other thread.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

But we "me" do not understand how this happened.


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## Pattie (Jun 25, 2008)

Oh gosh, this is all so senseless and tedious. Really. To all, I just went in and deleted my videos from the threads that I asked for help with. I won't be checking back until this has all worked itself out. I will miss you in the meantime.


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

pjewel said:


> Eva, I'm always happy to see you here. I hope your world is a much happier place these days. I suspect it is. My thoughts continue to be with you.


Aw..thanks Geri :hug:
My world is a wonderful place with much less drama these days..lol


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I couldn't be happier. How great is it to breathe free. Kids doing well?


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

My biggest concern is that the people that wander in as guests do not see the same ads that we, the regular and long time members see. Now we may be able to "report" what we perceive as a mill ad, but who is going to report the ad's that the guests see? Those are the people that need to be protected from mill and BYB ad's. Long time members generally know to stay away from them, but someone looking at the site for the first time would be the type of person that might very well be looking for a puppy. 

We are not going to see the puppy mill ad's that they will see as guests. 

PetFinder has Google ad's and they don't have puppy mill or BYB ad's. I'm not saying there is an easy fix, but somehow it is possible.

For all of those that were interested or involved in the S.A. study you will need to email Janet Hicks about it now as she too has been banned from this site and will no longer be able to post any of the health study information. If you need her information let me know. The S.A. study is still very active.

Beverly


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Eva, so great to hear you are doing well. 

I have a foot in both playgrounds too. Cause there are too many people I have come to care for in both camps. I personally think a commitment to take down the ads once they appear is a good faith effort from VS that will likely cost them revenue... 

Would you/could you boycott google as a protest to allowing questionable's to advertise? let's face it, it's not only puppy mills that advertise on google, but cigarettes, escort services, and even that controversial PBS series FRONTLINE! (gasp) all use Google ads.. pretty much the only game in town. But if your searching something, they are heads and tails above the other engine's --- So are you going to boycott Google?


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

:grouphug:


clare said:


> I love this site,and I totally blame it and it's members for making me get a new baby!!It's all your fault,well thats what I tell DH!LOL.So although I have joined the new site as well, this is my first love and I will continue to post here,but keep in touch with the others on the other forum,Oh my how much more time am I going to spend on Havanese chat.I'm sure everything will work out fine in the end.In the mean time we have twice as much posting to do!


I love your post but will change it just a bit! Hope you don't mind........
_I have joined the new site as well, *Oliver and Comet are* my first love and I will continue to post here *and post * on the other forum_ :grouphug:
Bold=changes I made


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

and I pray everything will work out but will just have to wait and see!


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

pjewel said:


> If you've ever played telephone as a child, this is beginning to feel much like that. What originally was said, got translated into something so far afield as to be almost funny. Poornima asked for her bump posts to be removed. They were. No drama there.


AMEN, wisest post ever! eace:


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

I think so too......boy oh boy has it all been misconstruded.....spelling not right i am sure.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I am out of this discussion. I think Yung explained eveything and I really don't think anyone has time to read our PMs--nor do I care. Maybe the rumors will quiet down now.


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## Lilly'sMom (Jan 28, 2010)

I have such a hard time resisting negativity, even though I know how destructive it can be. I don't like the way I feel when I give in to negativity in any form - gossip, judgement, speculation.......but it's so hard to resist. I've tried to stay away but I can't resist checking in to see what the latest drama is. I wish all the drama would just go away because I will eventually have to force myself to stay away, and I really don't want to do that.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Lilly'sMom said:


> I have such a hard time resisting negativity, even though I know how destructive it can be. I don't like the way I feel when I give in to negativity in any form - gossip, judgement, speculation.......but it's so hard to resist. I've tried to stay away but I can't resist checking in to see what the latest drama is. I wish all the drama would just go away because I will eventually have to force myself to stay away, and I really don't want to do that.


Kind of like rubber-necking an accident! That is normal and natural but refusing to add posts to negative threads will bring order and peace to this wonderful forum sooner than later.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Fortunately this place is rarely about drama. It's been about love, caring and sharing. And most of all, it's been abut sharing stories and photos of our delicious furballs.


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## Lilly'sMom (Jan 28, 2010)

pjewel said:


> Fortunately this place is rarely about drama. It's been about love, caring and sharing. And most of all, it's been abut sharing stories and photos of our delicious furballs.


That is exactly why I started coming here. I found hav owners to be as delightful as their little darlings. I always found warm fuzzies here, even if they were sad warm fuzzies. I saw a tv show about women's health that said we should find something everyday that makes us go "awwww". It really makes a difference when you make a concentrated effort to focus on things that make you feel good. I hereby pledge to stay away from all negative threads!


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Lilly'sMom said:


> That is exactly why I started coming here. I found hav owners to be as delightful as their little darlings. I always found warm fuzzies here, even if they were sad warm fuzzies. I saw a tv show about women's health that said we should find something everyday that makes us go "awwww". It really makes a difference when you make a concentrated effort to focus on things that make you feel good. I hereby pledge to stay away from all negative threads!


eace: I agree! A friend sent me a picture this morning of a sweet Llasa Apso puppy and that little face has stayed in my mind since. Of course, now IWAP.....lol


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Lilly'sMom said:


> That is exactly why I started coming here. I found hav owners to be as delightful as their little darlings. I always found warm fuzzies here, even if they were sad warm fuzzies. I saw a tv show about women's health that said we should find something everyday that makes us go "awwww". It really makes a difference when you make a concentrated effort to focus on things that make you feel good. I hereby pledge to stay away from all negative threads!


I had exactly the same thought last night. I'm with you.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Its a good idea, indeed. They have a way of taking a toll on your health and body, at least...I know a lot of women seem to have that problem, I know I do!


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