# Process



## EllenO (Sep 28, 2021)

Hi!
We have been searching for a Havanese to add to our family. I have identified a few breeders who do health screenings and seem to be responsible breeders. Their litters are due next month. 
My question is about the process. Many request an application and deposit. Does that happen before I even see the litter/puppies? Some breeders have waitlists so I don’t want to lose the opportunity to get one. But I feel like I’m putting all my eggs in one basket by committing to puppy I never had the chance to meet. 
Any feedback is greatly appreciated! Thank you! 
EllenO


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I don't think it's fair to ask for a deposit before the breeder knows they have a puppy born for you. We don't.

Soon after our puppies are born, Pam starts contacting people on the waiting list. Some will have already found a puppy somewhere else, and will have not notified us, and others will have had something come up in their lives that makes the current time not a good one. It takes a while to sort through all that, but usually by the second week, after puppies are on the ground, the list is narrowed down to people getting puppies, and those send deposits.

The deposit is really just for good faith, because you'd probably be surprised at how many people will talk like they're going to get a puppy, but when the time comes, they don't show up, if we hadn't asked for a deposit. The deposit is refundable, if something does come up, as soon as the next person is definite on the puppy, and has sent their deposit.


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## EllenO (Sep 28, 2021)

Thanks for your reply and for explaining your process to me. It makes a lot of sense to me and seems fair for both the breeder and future puppy parent.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EllenO said:


> Thanks for your reply and for explaining your process to me. It makes a lot of sense to me and seems fair for both the breeder and future puppy parent.


This is pretty much what I did too. I DID have prospective buyers fill out an application, just to get to know them better, and for those who lived close enough, I wanted them to come and meet me and my dogs BEFORE the litter was bon, so that we could get to know each other and get to know my dogs. Honestly, you will get to know a lot more about what your puppy will be like by meeting the parents than by meeting the puppies. ALL puppies are cute! 

Like Tom, I do not take deposits until well after the puppies are born, and only from people I know I will have a puppy for. That does NOT mean, however, that they will get to "choose" a puppy, or even have a specific puppy assigned to them until much later. (around 8 weeks) A family always has the right to refuse a puppy, and I always take the wishes of a family into consideration, but I make the decisions best on placing the puppies in the homes that make the most sense for them and for the families. So far, my families have been very happy with my choices! 

Like the Kings, my deposits are fully refundable in the case that a transaction doe not go through.

Be aware that not all breeders do things the same way. There ARE breeders that ask for "non-refundable" deposits WAY in advance, many times in states where this is not even technically legal. I, personally, would not purchase a puppy from a breeder with a non-refundable deposit policy, OR with a policy where the deposit just rolls over to a future litter.

Also, I wanted to mention something else in your initial post. You mentioned "health screening". I HOPE that you mean that the parent dogs have had all breed-required heath TESTING, and that the results have been RECORDED with OFA and that the dogs both have a CHIC number on file. Often, the term "health screening" is used in a looser way, meaning, that the breeder has taken the dog to the vet and the vet has said, yes, on such and such a date, she or he is "healthy". That is NOT acceptable health testing for a breeding dog!


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## EllenO (Sep 28, 2021)

Yes, I find the non-refundable deposits a bit unnerving. But I’ve come across it frequently even for breeders who seem to be responsible. 🤷🏻‍♀️
And yes, thank you for checking…. The health screenings I mentioned are OFA recorded for both parents. I did find it interesting that one parent of a litter I’m considering was tested for legg calve perthes but not the patella. I plan to follow up with the breeder regarding it before making any decisions. 
Finding a puppy from a responsible breeder has been challenging. But this forum has been so informative and helpful


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EllenO said:


> Yes, I find the non-refundable deposits a bit unnerving. But I’ve come across it frequently even for breeders who seem to be responsible. 🤷🏻‍♀️
> And yes, thank you for checking…. The health screenings I mentioned are OFA recorded for both parents. I did find it interesting that one parent of a litter I’m considering was tested for legg calve perthes but not the patella. I plan to follow up with the breeder regarding it before making any decisions.
> Finding a puppy from a responsible breeder has been challenging. But this forum has been so informative and helpful


LCP is on the same Xray as hip dysplasia. So they are cleared for both at the same time. Patellas are done by physical palpation.


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## EllenO (Sep 28, 2021)

krandall said:


> LCP is on the same Xray as hip dysplasia. So they are cleared for both at the same time. Patellas are done by physical palpation.


Makes sense as her hip was recorded on OFA too, along with eyes. Just not the patella.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EllenO said:


> Makes sense as her hip was recorded on OFA too, along with eyes. Just not the patella.


I’d want to know why. Often, when something is not recorded, it’s because there is a problem with it.


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## EllenO (Sep 28, 2021)

Agreed! I will make sure to ask about it. I want to make sure our puppy has the best start possible! Thanks for your words of wisdom! 



krandall said:


> I’d want to know why. Often, when something is not recorded, it’s because there is a problem with it.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

If the Vet who took the hip xray uses digital xrays, they have to send the form in to OFA. This doesn't work 100% of the time. At that point, it's out of the breeder's hands, and reliant on the Vet sending it in. We have some that are Way past due since the xrays were taken, and have begun to wonder if they actually got sent in.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> If the Vet who took the hip xray uses digital xrays, they have to send the form in to OFA. This doesn't work 100% of the time. At that point, it's out of the breeder's hands, and reliant on the Vet sending it in. We have some that are Way past due since the xrays were taken, and have begun to wonder if they actually got sent in.


Yes, I had to chase down Panda's and have them re-sent too... with the vet saying they had sent them, and OFA saying they never received them... the the vet saying they couldn't FIND them.  (they eventually did, but REALLY?!?! They had a copy of my invoice!) I thought electronic transfer was supposed to make things EASIER!!! LOL!


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