# Bath Time Woes



## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Anyone give up on bathing their Havs at home? I think I have. I am trying to grow out Sofie's coat and she is also blowing her coat. I have been told bathing is essential for ease of grooming during this time. Initially I was bathing once a week, but because she had been getting agitated during bathing, I prolonged it to 2 weeks. Tonight was the worse. She became very aggressive, attempting to bite. I did not complete her bath. She was still agitated during the drying process, but did eventually settle a bit. She continued her crazy behavior for about thirty minutes after drying . I have bathed large dogs and never had this kind of agitated, aggressive behavior. My groomer does not have a problem with bathing her. She does cooperate fully during daily grooming sessions.


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## BFrancs (May 17, 2012)

I almost had the same issue with Canela but our issue mostly had to do with this COLD-house we live in. She would be shivering the entire time. I started giving her baths in the kitchen sink, she never got aggressive but she sure wasn't trying to stay in the sink. We did the whole give her treat during the bath but that didn't grab her attention she kept trying to run away. I eventually move into the bathroom and turn up the heat in the house and she settle down. hopefully someone else will chime in.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

That's too bad. I wouldn't be able to afford to have them go out for their baths. I say if you can do it. You could just considerate on the combing


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## BFrancs (May 17, 2012)

swaye said:


> Anyone give up on bathing their Havs at home? I think I have. I am trying to grow out Sofie's coat and she is also blowing her coat. I have been told bathing is essential for ease of grooming during this time. Initially I was bathing once a week, but because she had been getting agitated during bathing, I prolonged it to 2 weeks. Tonight was the worse. She became very aggressive, attempting to bite. I did not complete her bath. She was still agitated during the drying process, but did eventually settle a bit. She continued her crazy behavior for about thirty minutes after drying . I have bathed large dogs and never had this kind of agitated, aggressive behavior. My groomer does not have a problem with bathing her. She does cooperate fully during daily grooming sessions.


I know I couldn't spend the money of taking Canela to groom every week (maybe every other week) but it would get pricey after awhile, but I guess, if it got soo bad like your situation I would take her to groomer til she gets a little older and gets use to it taking baths and maybe try again at home at a later time


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

swaye said:


> Anyone give up on bathing their Havs at home? I think I have. I am trying to grow out Sofie's coat and she is also blowing her coat. I have been told bathing is essential for ease of grooming during this time. Initially I was bathing once a week, but because she had been getting agitated during bathing, I prolonged it to 2 weeks. Tonight was the worse. She became very aggressive, attempting to bite. I did not complete her bath. She was still agitated during the drying process, but did eventually settle a bit. She continued her crazy behavior for about thirty minutes after drying . I have bathed large dogs and never had this kind of agitated, aggressive behavior. My groomer does not have a problem with bathing her. She does cooperate fully during daily grooming sessions.


I've never had that problem with Kodi, but we've seen from the beginning that your girl has been more of a "challenge" than the average Hav pup. I suspect that lengthening the time between baths made it less of a routine than doing it more regularly. If she's good with the groomer, it may be that she's upsetting you, and that is upsetting her, so it starts a vicious circle situation. Any chance that you could get your groomer to TEACH you how to bathe her calmly and quietly?

If not, I'd sure rather have someone else bathe her than get in a huge fight each time.

Another thought is, do you have something non-slippery (like a rubber mat) under her? &#8230; maybe she's afraid of slipping? Or is the water a comfortable temperature? Could it be too hot or too cold?

We used to have a long haired white cat. When she was young, she never needed any grooming, but as she got older, she got mats if not groomed regularly. But because we'd never groomed her when she was young, she would flay us alive if we even TRIED to groom her later in life. We finally had to take her to be groomed professionally once a month or so. The GROOMERS would tell us how WONDERFUL she was, and that they had NEVER worked with such a well-behaved, easy to groom cat. :doh: We would just look at each other thinking, "You COULDN'T be talking about OUR cat!!!!"

We learned our lesson, though&#8230; when we got our current (long haired, white) cat, we started grooming her REGULARLY, even though she didn't really need it when she was young. It has paid off, because now, in her teens, she DOES develop a few mats if not brushed regularly, but since we've been doing it all her life, she doesn't try to dismember us the way the old cat did!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

krandall said:


> I've never had that problem with Kodi, but we've seen from the beginning that your girl has been more of a "challenge" than the average Hav pup. I suspect that lengthening the time between baths made it less of a routine than doing it more regularly. If she's good with the groomer, it may be that she's upsetting you, and that is upsetting her, so it starts a vicious circle situation. Any chance that you could get your groomer to TEACH you how to bathe her calmly and quietly?
> 
> If not, I'd sure rather have someone else bathe her than get in a huge fight each time.
> 
> ...


I do use a bath mat and I do not put water in the tub, because I sensed she was leery of standing in the water. I groom her daily, no problem at all. It is just the baths. I did feel myself initially getting a bit tense at the thought of bathing her tonight, but thought I had switched gears to matter of fact as I proceeded with getting her bath ready. She even got growly while I put cotton in her ears. I was firm during the bathing, but she just got worse with me. I will not feel comfortable going through this again. I will certainly ask my groomer about her bathing techniques, but not sure I feel up to even trying again at this point. One of the issues may be our water delivery system. I use a pitcher for wetting and rinsing. I cannot find a hose to fit our square shaped tub faucet. She no longer fits in our double sided kitchen sink... my only option may be to get her cut short...


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## Gabs (Apr 15, 2012)

Have you tried a handheld shower head? That's what I use and it made all the difference in bathing my hav. You can control the temp of the water and makes the whole process faster.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Gabs said:


> Have you tried a handheld shower head? That's what I use and it made all the difference in bathing my hav. You can control the temp of the water and makes the whole process faster.


Never occurred to me that there was such a thing. The only thing I was familiar with was the handheld sprayer for tub faucet. I will look into it!


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## BFrancs (May 17, 2012)

swaye said:


> Never occurred to me that there was such a thing. The only thing I was familiar with was the handheld sprayer for tub faucet. I will look into it!


We use a hose from the showerhead too. The hose is from PetEdge - Master Equipment™ 6-in-1, 120" Coil Spray Hose https://www.petedge.com/zpetedgemain/catalog/productDetail.jsf?wec-appid=PEDM_WEBSHOP_TR&page=72A214C22827430A9795247F1BF064D6&closeLiveSearchOverlay=TRUE&itemKey=005056A633791ED2B58649162EB2AFB3&menuLinkSelected=none&wec-locale=en_US comes in handy since I hate turning the water off and on esp since maneuvering behind the utility sink is very not comfortable.


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## NickieTwo (Jun 17, 2013)

I let the groomers bathe Nickie. We've always done that with the Sheltie and so do the same with Nickie. Mostly I don't bathe Nick because I don't have a comfortble location for me and I don't have enough hands to hold him while washing and then hold him while drying and combing at the same time. He does get combed every day.


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## Gabs (Apr 15, 2012)

swaye said:


> Never occurred to me that there was such a thing. The only thing I was familiar with was the handheld sprayer for tub faucet. I will look into it!


I just got my hand held shower head at Home Depot - it's not specifically for pets, but works great when bathing these little guys in the tub


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## Zarika (Dec 16, 2012)

I agree it's not worth a huge fight every time so I would take her to the groomers for her real baths. However, I would start working on little parts of the bath (put her in tub, treats praise, when that goes well wet one foot, ect). You're going to want to be able to bath her. I can think of reasons a dog could get really dirty or stinky in a day and the groomer might be booked for the day, closed, ect.


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## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

Another option that might be cheaper than the groomer is one of those "do it yourself" grooming places. There is one in my city and there seem to be a lot popping up. They basically have all the supplies: proper grooming tubs, sprayers, etc. They supplies shampoos and conditioners (i usually bring my own in case they don't have what i like for my dogs crazy coat). You do all the work, but they clean up the mess.

Another thing that might help you is getting a noose for your tub. I have one for my big dog since she can jump out of the tub. It's basically a grooming noose with a big suction cup that stucks onto the wall of your tub. That way the dog can't get away from you. Makes the grooming experience much faster when the dog can't spin around or escape from you. This is the one I bought, you can probably get them off amazon. http://www.renspets.com/dog-stay-n-wash-noose.html

I would keep trying, don't give up. Every 2 weeks is fine, just be "matter of fact" about it and don't let her be the boss. It might be worth getting the dogs coat trimmed a bit during the blowing coat phase if this whole experience is traumatic for her. You can grow the length out next year; just go to an experienced groomer and make sure they know you intend to grow it out and that you just want the body thinned down to make grooming easier for now (not a puppy cut). They should just go over the body with thinning shears and take out some of the length which will make the process easier for both of you but won't affect the look of the coat 2 years from now. Some people even do this with their show dogs who have difficult coats so don't feel too bad.

Good luck. Sounds like you have a head strong puppy that is testing your limits!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tuss said:


> Some people even do this [thin coats] with their show dogs who have difficult coats so don't feel too bad.


Even though it's not legal for show Havanese.


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## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

krandall said:


> Even though it's not legal for show Havanese.


Well, it's a fault to show them with a trimmed coat, but some just don't show them for the first few years. They trim the coat when they are blowing, then let it grow out completely and then start showing them again. They feel it's not worth traumatizing the dog thru the blowing coat phase, especially for a dog that will need a lifetime of frequent grooming and would rather have an easier time grooming during the "challenging period" They have to be very careful as to where it is trimmed and how much so it will grow out properly (ie they never trim the face or legs, just the body. They look silly for awhile but definitely would make them easier to comb out. I was lucky that my girl had an easy coat and never had a difficult blowing period like some do.

If you're not planning to show the dog and just like the look of a full coat, then don't hesitate to trim it. Do what is ultimately best for the dog. A coat will always grow back.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tuss said:


> Well, it's a fault to show them with a trimmed coat, but some just don't show them for the first few years. They trim the coat when they are blowing, then let it grow out completely and then start showing them again. They feel it's not worth traumatizing the dog thru the blowing coat phase, especially for a dog that will need a lifetime of frequent grooming and would rather have an easier time grooming during the "challenging period" They have to be very careful as to where it is trimmed and how much so it will grow out properly (ie they never trim the face or legs, just the body. They look silly for awhile but definitely would make them easier to comb out. I was lucky that my girl had an easy coat and never had a difficult blowing period like some do.
> 
> If you're not planning to show the dog and just like the look of a full coat, then don't hesitate to trim it. Do what is ultimately best for the dog. A coat will always grow back.


Oh, I'm not talking about letting a puppy get through blowing and then letting them grow out. There ARE people who thin show coats, even though it's against the rules. &#8230; Just like chalking, etc. It's not SUPPOSED to be done. but it is.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Zarika said:


> I agree it's not worth a huge fight every time so I would take her to the groomers for her real baths. However, I would start working on little parts of the bath (put her in tub, treats praise, when that goes well wet one foot, ect). You're going to want to be able to bath her. I can think of reasons a dog could get really dirty or stinky in a day and the groomer might be booked for the day, closed, ect.


I like this idea and have started this. I have got to the wet foot stage and no reaction... I even wet her back in one spot.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Tuss said:


> Another option that might be cheaper than the groomer is one of those "do it yourself" grooming places. There is one in my city and there seem to be a lot popping up. They basically have all the supplies: proper grooming tubs, sprayers, etc. They supplies shampoos and conditioners (i usually bring my own in case they don't have what i like for my dogs crazy coat). You do all the work, but they clean up the mess.
> 
> Another thing that might help you is getting a noose for your tub. I have one for my big dog since she can jump out of the tub. It's basically a grooming noose with a big suction cup that stucks onto the wall of your tub. That way the dog can't get away from you. Makes the grooming experience much faster when the dog can't spin around or escape from you. This is the one I bought, you can probably get them off amazon. http://www.renspets.com/dog-stay-n-wash-noose.html
> 
> ...


Yep she has her moments! House training was a breeze as were basic commands. She gave me fits about grooming, but now is very compliant. This bath thing has been the worse. I suppose the adolescent phase does not help the situation. We have just purchased a showerhead hose and if need be Iwill purchase a bath noose. I am familiar with those. I appreciate the advice about the thinning and actually had thought about asking my groomer to do this. I am NOT showing Sofie. I just like the full coat look.

We use to have a pet store that had grooming/bathing available, but unfortunately they shut down a few years ago. I had thought about that as an option, but there are none close by anymore.

Thank you for your good suggestions. I will try again. I was feeling very defeated a few days ago, buy feel encouraged with all of the helpful suggestions.


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## BFrancs (May 17, 2012)

swaye said:


> I like this idea and have started this. I have got to the wet foot stage and no reaction... I even wet her back in one spot.


Thats good your not giving up on her.

Slowly but surely you will get there and Sofie might even end up...enjoying a nice bubble bath :bathbaby: sorry couldn't resist, just came across this pix today.


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## fandances (Jul 4, 2013)

That bubble bath picture....priceless! Thanks for the laugh. And that is so NOT my puppy at bathtime.


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## Seattleite (Dec 4, 2013)

BFrancs said:


> Thats good your not giving up on her.
> 
> Slowly but surely you will get there and Sofie might even end up...enjoying a nice bubble bath :bathbaby: sorry couldn't resist, just came across this pix today.


That is cute! I always take my puppy into the bathroom when I take a bath or shower so I don't have to crate her, but ever time I take a bath, she stands on her hind legs at the side of the tub and cries, trying to get in with me. The other day I finally gave in at the end of my bath and let her in. She was so excited to be in there with me, lol.


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## snowhite (Dec 10, 2013)

BFrancs or anyone, where could I get one of those tubs, (as shown in your picture) to put in the bathtub? And what are they called, beside "tub", so I can do a product "search"? I do do the baths at home, in the bathtub, but oh my back....... :Cry:


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

snowhite said:


> BFrancs or anyone, where could I get one of those tubs, (as shown in your picture) to put in the bathtub? And what are they called, beside "tub", so I can do a product "search"? I do do the baths at home, in the bathtub, but oh my back....... :Cry:


I believe they are called utility sinks and are carried by places like Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. It sure would save your back!


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## BFrancs (May 17, 2012)

snowhite said:


> BFrancs or anyone, where could I get one of those tubs, (as shown in your picture) to put in the bathtub? And what are they called, beside "tub", so I can do a product "search"? I do do the baths at home, in the bathtub, but oh my back....... :Cry:


Mary got it right&#8230;. Home Depot is where I bought mine. It saved my back!! Check out this thread post #20 http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=17916


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

BFrancs said:


> Thats good your not giving up on her.
> 
> Slowly but surely you will get there and Sofie might even end up...enjoying a nice bubble bath :bathbaby: sorry couldn't resist, just came across this pix today.


Oh I loved the pic of the Pom (I think)! I can dream can't I?? I just wanted to give an update. I gave Sofie a bath today. We did purchase a showerhead hose as suggested. She seemed to ok with it and oh it was so much easier wetting and rinsing her. I did take in treat with me and gave them to her frequently. She cooperated with the shampooing until I reached her hind quarters and back legs, then started her growling and nipping. I continued with bathing and treating. When she started the growling and the nipping, I took her sweet little face in my hands and looked her in the face and said "no biting" firmly. She did stop but soon started again as I tried to wash her hind quarters. I repeated my holding her face in my hands and "no biting". One would think from her reaction hat her hindquarters might be painful, but I can brush/comb her there with absolutely no reaction. She jumps and dances on her hind legs seemingly without discomfort. I really doubt that the area is painful to her as she does not react except in the bath. She is handled frequently daily. Rinsing her off was no problem either. I praised her exuberantly after we were done and of course treated her. I could tell for awhile afterwards that she was upset with me and her bath experience. Drying her is no problem either. She cooperates 100%

As a side note, my husband and I like the new showerhead.


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## BFrancs (May 17, 2012)

Good for you for not giving up on her. It's gonna time for her to get use to it ... The good thing she is making progress...Remember the more treats the better 

Sent from Petguide.com App


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

YAY!!! Sounds like a MUCH better experience all the way around! Kodi had ONE front foot that he made a HUGE fuss about, no matter what you were doing to it… clipping ails, trimming hair or just grooming. There was never anything wrong with it, and we never did anything to that foot that wasn't done to the other feet. He was just VERY sensitive about it. So I just kept working at it, rewarding good behavior with cookies and praise and ignoring the silliness. (he didn't bite, so I didn't have to deal with that! ) 

I'm very happy to say that at this point, Ir member it happening, and remember how frustrating it was, but I can't remember which foot it was, now! Hopefully, in a couple of years, this will just be another "challenging puppy" memory. 

Just keep reminding yourself how far you've come. If it weren't for your patience and persistence, you wouldn't have the wonderful girl you have now. This is just one more bump in the road!!!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

krandall said:


> YAY!!! Sounds like a MUCH better experience all the way around! Kodi had ONE front foot that he made a HUGE fuss about, no matter what you were doing to it&#8230; clipping ails, trimming hair or just grooming. There was never anything wrong with it, and we never did anything to that foot that wasn't done to the other feet. He was just VERY sensitive about it. So I just kept working at it, rewarding good behavior with cookies and praise and ignoring the silliness. (he didn't bite, so I didn't have to deal with that! )
> 
> I'm very happy to say that at this point, Ir member it happening, and remember how frustrating it was, but I can't remember which foot it was, now! Hopefully, in a couple of years, this will just be another "challenging puppy" memory.
> 
> Just keep reminding yourself how far you've come. If it weren't for your patience and persistence, you wouldn't have the wonderful girl you have now. This is just one more bump in the road!!!


Thanks Karen for your encouragement...it means a lot!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

BFrancs said:


> Good for you for not giving up on her. It's gonna time for her to get use to it ... The good thing she is making progress...Remember the more treats the better
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Thanks BFrancs...you make a good cheerleader. Something I have needed with this sassy, spirited little miss!


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Last up date...unless we take a significant backslide. Bath time this morning!! Used the showerhead hose AND a bathtub tether. Worked so much easier! She seemed more at ease, too. Washing/soaping nearly completed with only one episode of a growling/snarkiness (again at hindquarters). I can rinse and massage that area with no problem, but the shampooing irks her (or my time is up in her mind). Husband fed her treats during the process. Overall it was much, much better. I am hoping for eventual Zen-like bath time. She gave me a hard time with daily grooming, now it is Zen-like and requires no treats (although I do give her a bit of a special treat afterwards). We both enjoy it... Thank you all for your wisdom and encouragement. I appreciate it.


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## Gabs (Apr 15, 2012)

That's awesome!!!! I remember bath times being such a struggle then around the 1.5 year mark something changed - she just started to accept it, no more trying to jump out! The shower head helps a lot, and it's something you can enjoy too lol win-win


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yay!!! i'm so glad you were able to figure out something that worked better. I think that sometimes, when something is stressful for us too, it becomes a huge negative feed-back loop with the animal.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

krandall said:


> Yay!!! i'm so glad you were able to figure out something that worked better. I think that sometimes, when something is stressful for us too, it becomes a huge negative feed-back loop with the animal.


As one who has always shared our home with our canine kids, I have observed that. Honestly, the best dog we ever had was a mutt who didn't get much one on one attention in her very young years (we were remodeling and had young kids), was the least stressed and most well behaved we ever had.


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