# "Down" Command. His legs are so short!



## eripaulie (Jun 13, 2018)

Hi everyone!

Question about the down command. I use a clicker and a treat with Mr. Harry. He knows some good tricks, and "sit". (In the house he is great, but outside with distractions just so so!)

Anyways, I have had doberman dogs in the past. Teaching them "down" was a little easier because they were taller. My method is to hold the treat on the ground covered with my hand. I waited for them to go down on their stomach to get the treat then clicked, they learned it pretty easy.

Now, Mr. Harry, my Havanese puppy, has such short legs! I put the treat on the ground covered with my hand and he just bends his neck down. I push my hand with the treat under his stomach hoping that he will put his stomach on the ground, but it doesnt happen! His legs are so short , he just contorts himself like a pretzel without going down on his stomach, I cannot get him down to click!

Can anyone give me advice to teach Mr. Harry the "down" command with a clicker and treat?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yes! With Kodi I “captured” it with the clicker... I kept a clicker and treats in my pocket ALL the time. Whenever I saw him lie down on his own I woukd click/treat. He eventually learned it! Pixel learned it pretty much the way you described.

Then the Panda came along, and I had an even harder time with her. Finally, my instructor suggested that I st on the floor, legs out in front of me. She had me raise my knees just slightly to make a little tunnel to lure her through with a cookie. At first I had my knee high enough that she coul just walk under, but as she learned the game, I lowered my knee until she had to get down on her belly and crawl through. As she went down, I would click/treat. She very quickly got the idea, and I was able to get it without luring her under my leg.


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## eripaulie (Jun 13, 2018)

Oh wow, I never thought of that, with the bent legs on the floor! Ill give that a try first. Thanks krandall!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

I am resurrecting this thread. Fezzik has had his first Puppy Kindergarten class. His 'Sit' is coming along as well as looking up at my face. I got him to do one 'down' in class. Now I can't repeat it. He is standing. I am holding the treat at his nose level. Then I slowly move it down and towards his chest. Fezzik should be in the Cirque du Soleil. Pretzel Puppy. Nothing is working.

Should I reward him when he starts to bend his elbows? I am going to try Karen's trick of crawling under my leg next.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

YAY!!! I found Karen's training video of Panda!! Wow, Fezzik looks so much like her. Karen, I hope you don't mind that I reposted it.


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## eripaulie (Jun 13, 2018)

Hi Pam,

I was the original poster here in 2018. I finally got Harry to do the down command back then. I tried the under the leg thingy, it did not work for me at that time. I remember when I was working with Harry on the "down" I was doing it on a tile floor, which was kind of slippery, which I think made him hesitate to go down on his belly! Someone suggested to me to put a rug underneath Harry when attempting the command. I put a flat rug under him, then held the treat on the ground, used a clicker, and it worked! Good luck!

Lisa


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## lindam (Dec 16, 2020)

Wanted to chime in and I say I absolutely love the comraderie here in this forum!! I'm so happy I found this site. You all are amazing 💛


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Really cute video of Panda, Karen! Thanks for posting it. Thanks for finding it, Pam. Lisa, thanks for getting back to us. It's always so fun to find out what ended up happening! I don't recall seeing this thread before today.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

ShamaMama said:


> Really cute video of Panda, Karen! Thanks for posting it. Thanks for finding it, Pam. Lisa, thanks for getting back to us. It's always so fun to find out what ended up happening! I don't recall seeing this thread before today.


I agree ShamaMama, it is wonderful to hear back from folks. Often times we are left "hanging" and I wonder how things turned out!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

well, I got Fezzik to slither under my leg. His front half looks good but he is sticking his back legs out like a Havanese. It is a work in progress.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

morriscsps said:


> well, I got Fezzik to slither under my leg. His front half looks good but he is sticking his back legs out like a Havanese. It is a work in progress.


Do you mean the frog look? Shama never did that. I always think it's so cute to see Havanese puppies (and dogs!) with their back legs splayed out like frogs! I wonder if there is a thread of Havanese/frog photos ...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> YAY!!! I found Karen's training video of Panda!! Wow, Fezzik looks so much like her. Karen, I hope you don't mind that I reposted it.
> 
> 2016 01 27 Panda early training - YouTube


Yes! This is still excellent foundation work for any puppy!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> well, I got Fezzik to slither under my leg. His front half looks good but he is sticking his back legs out like a Havanese. It is a work in progress.


There is NOTHING in the rule book that says where his back legs need to be in a down. 

(although, in all seriousness, that is going to go away as he figures it out!)


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Update:

Yay, he does 'down'... but only if he knows I have treats nearby. Then he drops like he has been shot. 

Work in progress.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

morriscsps said:


> Update:
> 
> Yay, he does 'down'... but only if he knows I have treats nearby. Then he drops like he has been shot.
> 
> Work in progress.


Ahh...same problem here but mine are over 12 years old and likely hopeless at this point!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

mudpuppymama said:


> Ahh...same problem here but mine are over 12 years old and likely hopeless at this point!


😆


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

ShamaMama said:


> Do you mean the frog look? Shama never did that. I always think it's so cute to see Havanese puppies (and dogs!) with their back legs splayed out like frogs! I wonder if there is a thread of Havanese/frog photos ...


It's funny how different dogs "frog" in different ways. Duncan (Perry's uncle - a scotty) will stretch his legs out behind him while he's standing and then sort of lean forward and lie down with his legs staying stretched out behind him. Perry, on the other hand, will lie down and then pop his legs back one at a time .


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

morriscsps said:


> 😆


There is still hope for Fezzik! Now I am happy that they can still hear the command!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> Update:
> 
> Yay, he does 'down'... but only if he knows I have treats nearby. Then he drops like he has been shot.
> 
> Work in progress.


I know you are working with a trainer. Your puppy is still a puppy, and should be working for out of sight treats for quite some time. Your trainer should help you learn how to fade those treats. But VERY, VERY SLOWLY. The biggest mistake people make is thinking that dogs should “perform for free” much too early.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

yup, I am the human with treat crumbs in ALL of her pockets.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Ahh...same problem here but mine are over 12 years old and likely hopeless at this point!


Oh, no! You don’t get away with that! Kodi sez “Old dogs enjoy learning new stuff every day!!!”


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> It's funny how different dogs "frog" in different ways. Duncan (Perry's uncle - a scotty) will stretch his legs out behind him while he's standing and then sort of lean forward and lie down with his legs staying stretched out behind him. Perry, on the other hand, will lie down and then pop his legs back one at a time .


Big frog, little frog...


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Oh, no! You don’t get away with that! Kodi sez “Old dogs enjoy learning new stuff every day!!!”


Yes I think mine agree with Kodi, however they like the treats in plain view!!!!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

krandall said:


> Big frog, little frog...
> View attachment 174030


That is stinkin' cute!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Yes I think mine agree with Kodi, however they like the treats in plain view!!!!


They are playing you...


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> They are playing you...


Most likely! Mia is also playing me with regard to grooming. I finally have gotten her to “love“ grooming through the heavy use of treats. However, she now stands by the grooming table when she thinks it is time for grooming and begs to be groomed. So...has she played me or have I played her? Or are we playing each other? I think I will start trying to vary grooming time! Sort of like varying supper time to avoid anyone getting antsy for dinner!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> That is stinkin' cute!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Most likely! Mia is also playing me with regard to grooming. I finally have gotten her to “love“ grooming through the heavy use of treats. However, she now stands by the grooming table when she thinks it is time for grooming and begs to be groomed. So...has she played me or have I played her? Or are we playing each other? I think I will start trying to vary grooming time! Sort of like varying supper time to avoid anyone getting antsy for dinner!


That's a LITTLE different, since you are doing something necessary, but perhaps slightly uncomfortable. So I'd give her that. But if you CARE about the other training, I'd fade the treats so they are out of sight, and therefore a reward rather than a bribe.  

OTOH... this falls into the "mind over matter" category in terms of training IMO... For me, since I do competitive obedience, where the dogs MUST perform in the absence of treats, I have to get them to perform willingly without treat present. But in your case... "If you don't mind, it doesn't matter"! LOL!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> That's a LITTLE different, since you are doing something necessary, but perhaps slightly uncomfortable. So I'd give her that. But if you CARE about the other training, I'd fade the treats so they are out of sight, and therefore a reward rather than a bribe.
> 
> OTOH... this falls into the "mind over matter" category in terms of training IMO... For me, since I do competitive obedience, where the dogs MUST perform in the absence of treats, I have to get them to perform willingly without treat present. But in your case... "If you don't mind, it doesn't matter"! LOL!


Great advice. I will have to decide if it matters or not. One thing that may influence me is the desire to NOT have fat dogs so fading can have other benefits!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Great advice. I will have to decide if it matters or not. One thing that may influence me is the desire to NOT have fat dogs so fading can have other benefits!


Well, THAT is VERY easy to manage! Believe me, I do LOTS of training, and use tons of training treats. I am just careful to factor those calories into their weekly (not daily) allotment. If we train a lot, I cut their meal time calories a little bit. Susan Garrett uses their meal food to DO the training. And yes, she feeds raw. She just uses a spoon to deliver.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> Most likely! Mia is also playing me with regard to grooming. I finally have gotten her to “love“ grooming through the heavy use of treats. However, she now stands by the grooming table when she thinks it is time for grooming and begs to be groomed. So...has she played me or have I played her? Or are we playing each other? I think I will start trying to vary grooming time! Sort of like varying supper time to avoid anyone getting antsy for dinner!


Sundance doesn’t do it as often as he used to, but he will roll into his back near where we groo
to “invite” me to brush his belly and give him a treat.

Are you still busy driving out to your new house on the weekends? It would be fun to see you and both of your sweet dogs on the play date! Especially you since the dogs sometimes wander off after a while.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Well, THAT is VERY easy to manage! Be lieve me, I do LOTS of training, and use tons of training treats. I am just careful to factor those calories into their weekly (not daily) allotment. If we train a lot, I cut their meal time calories a little bit. Susan Garret uses their meal food toDO the training. And yes, she feeds raw. She just uses a spoon to deliver.


These are great ideas. I actually have been including treats into their diet calculations for quite awhile. Otherwise, I would already have FAT dogs!!! For example, I always feed the organ portion of their diet raw and semi-frozen. As far as other treats, I am not a raw purist. I also use some homemade cooked or dehydrated. I definitely do not want to hide raw treats around the house! Freeze dried treats are way too expensive and half the bag is sometimes dust so I do not use freeze dried treats anymore.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Sundance doesn’t do it as often as he used to, but he will roll into his back near where we groo
> to “invite” me to brush his belly and give him a treat.
> 
> Are you still busy driving out to your new house on the weekends? It would be fun to see you and both of your sweet dogs on the play date! Especially you since the dogs sometimes wander off after a while.


Thanks Eva...how sweet of you! Yes we are still spending quite a bit of time on the new house and driving back and forth. Also, things at the current house have decided to start breaking so dealing with a few things there. I will see if I can make it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I definitely do not want to hide raw treats around the house!


Eeeewww! LOL!



mudpuppymama said:


> Freeze dried treats are way too expensive and half the bag is sometimes dust so I do not use freeze dried treats anymore.


A friend of mine found a dehydrator on the edge of her street with a "free" sign on it, and we take turns using it to dehydrate dog treats with it. But even a brand new, low-end dehydrator can be had for about $30 I think. So that is another option!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Eeeewww! LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> A friend of mine found a dehydrator on the edge of her street with a "free" sign on it, and we take turns using it to dehydrate dog treats with it. But even a brand new, low-end dehydrator can be had for about $30 I think. So that is another option!


Actually I already have one. We used it for awhile and then we got lazy! I will have to get it out again!


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