# I really need some advise



## SmittenHavaneseMommy (Feb 18, 2008)

Okay, so Kohl has been vomiting all day. 4-5 times so far. He's been acting okay, up until about 7:30. He's really whiney, really uncomfortable. He's been laying down on the bed since 9:00 and been really skiddish and trying to burry himself under the blankets, covers or whatever he can. Spastic like. 
I called the vet, he said give him pepto for the tummy and ice chips with some gatorade, etc... to keep him hydrated.. but... he's not taking anything. The vet said if he isn't better by morning, or he starts having Diarea to call back. I am just very worried b/c of how skiddish he's acting and burring himself in the covers.. i've never seen that before, and I have no clue if that's just normal or a sign of something very wrong? ANY ADVISE???? I'ms scared for my baby boy! By spastic I mean doing circles and then doing the RLH all over the bed till he can burry himself somewhere....


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## SmittenHavaneseMommy (Feb 18, 2008)

Kona also just vomited but it was just a few tiny spots of white foam looking stuff. No food or anything in it but a tiny piece of brown leaves. Ug... this is weird... they've not had a food change, they don't eat treats, the same bag of food for 2 weeks.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Were you still camping? Could they have eaten something at the camp site.....fish...dead frog? Sounds like since they are both sick that they must have both gotten into somehing. Cicero was a little sick one day and wouldn't drink water. I finally gave him the flavored Vitaman Water...and he loved it. I know you are worried, but just keep an eye on them and try to get them to drink something if they keep thowing up.


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## SmittenHavaneseMommy (Feb 18, 2008)

well, we didn't camp. it's been raining on and off all weekend, and we were afraid to have their First experience with camping to be stormy. We did spend alot of time outside today, so they may have ate something (leaves, etc...) but Kohls started this a.m. early before he was ever outside. Kona's I think was leaves he ate, they were brown ones (we have a pile from raking the yard) that's not uncommon for him to eat them and vomit the white foam. but Kohl's started this a.m. early, before ever going outside, so it would have been something from yesterday... I am gonna keep an eye on him tonight, taking him in to the e.r. vet if needed. I will try some flavored vitamins... or the gatorade in the water like the vet said. he just doesn't wanna drink. I gave pepto, which seems to be finally working a bit on him.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

He is so young and they can get into anything. When in doubt that young, I would take him in.


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

you really need to search their area see if you can find any remnints of anythig they may have eaten. Look under beds, blankets do a walk throught the yard. Could they have gotten into any poisons? Snail bat, ant poision, mouse or rat poision that kind of thing? Are you feeding any treats or dog food that has been recalled? That much vomitting is not Ok and especailly on a small dog. Dehydration can be devastaing to them. The fact that the other one is now vomiting is a sighn they both ate something they shouldnt have. What kind of leaves? Lot's of plants are poisious that people dont realize. Wisteria pods for example. At this point what ever it is is in their system but I would definetley take them in first thing in the morn and have the vet put them on IV fluids and talk in person with him. I hope everything works out ok.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Brooke, any update on Kohl? I hope his night was ok. Let us know...


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

Brooke just wondering how the boys are doing? Keep us posted!!! Belly rubs for the boys from all of us here. Hugs to you as well!!!


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Brooke - I know that some people have noticed if their dogs don't get a little bit of food in the later evening that they'll vomit bile type fluids. Could this be the problem? I sure hope everyone is feeling better today.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Definitely sounds like they got into something. With kids and pups you never know what is left lying around by accident. You have a buys house so it's easy for something to slip by you. Thinking of you all and wishing for the best.


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## SmittenHavaneseMommy (Feb 18, 2008)

Well, we are off to the vet this a.m. for a check on the boys. I think.... (just my thoughts) that is has to do with the food they've been eating. I can't find anything that they've been able to eat... I've done a thorough walk through in the house and outside. we did spray for ants, but the bottle says after it dries it's not harmful to pets of persons, but I did ask the vet about that and he seems to think that wouldn't cause them to be ill. We sprayed 2 days ago so that is long for a reaction. Thanks for asking. I will update you all when we get back from the vet. They ate and drank with no problems this morning. Kona only had the 1 episode last night, and the leaves were some brown dead ones that we piled up in the yard. I saw nothiing in Kohls vomit but food.


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

Gosh, hope they're ok. I'll be checking back all day..waiting for you to post.


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## SmittenHavaneseMommy (Feb 18, 2008)

So--- vet thinks they are okay. Kona is doing good. Nothing to worry about. The vet said he probably did eat some leaves/bark outside and it just upset his tummy. But b/c of Kohl being sick, it was more likely the food. Kohl on the other hand... we don't know about  He seems very ill. Although he ate and drank this a.m. he is not 100% better. The vet, has heard alot of stories with very similar reactions as this in pets who's owners feed Canidae. So--- we are going to switch foods. I know Katie fed canidae and her pups ended up with stones.... so this is good enough info for me to switch foods. Now.. what to feed. They gave Kohl some fluids and are doing a stool test. I am so glad our vet was willing to see the boys today. They were very helpful last night, he didn't call back right away like he usually does, b/c he was doing a C-Section, but I think they are very good and know what's best for my pups. I go to pick Kohl up at 1:00.  I miss him... I hope that there are no lasting effects from this episode or food.
I guess Kohl felt the effects faster and harder being smaller.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Fromm's is a really good food. You might want to try that.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Oh man, I'm so sorry that it wasn't something simple. Thank goodness your vet could see everyone today. When you change foods, try a different protein and maybe just one carbohydrate. In the meantime, boiled chicken and rice is really good for upset tummies.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Oh Brooke,

I am so sorry Kohl is sick and hope that when you pick him up, the vet will have some answers for you. I am glad to hear that there is nothing wrong with Kona. I really like Evo, Innova is also ranked very high, but my dogs would rather starve than eat it.


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## SmittenHavaneseMommy (Feb 18, 2008)

Should I do a full switch rather than mixing the 2 foods together?
How about Iams? The vet recommened that... but I don't know anything about Iams.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Oh no Brooke - not Iams. Search the food threads here, but I believe Fromm's, Innova, EVO, Orijen are all pretty popular. You can go to www.dogfoodanalysis.com for more food reviews. I've also tried Taste of the Wild but it was too high in protein for my Maltese. Currently I've got him on WeeBits and seems to be doing well. The food store told me that a whitefish/fish based food is usually a safe bet. The duck and potato from Natural Balance is good but a bit drying for the coat sometimes.

Yes, ideally you'd want to gradually wean the dogs from one brand to the next but since you've had trouble, I'd go direct to the new food maybe without switching proteins so you don't get such a big reaction unless you think that protein source is part of the problems.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Brooke,

Definitely not Iams, the food is rated very poorly and you can do much better. In your case I would do a full switch, condiering that the food they are on is causing the problem. You might mix it it with rice to help with possible runs.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

If I were you, I go straight to the chicken and rice to be easy on the tummies and then switch over completely to something else. I use Fromms and I feel really safe with them~haven't heard good things about Iams.


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## Mijo's Mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Let us know the results of the stool test Brooke. Hope all is well with your little ones!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Any word on Kohl???


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## Janet Zee (Mar 16, 2007)

Checking back for news about Kohl.


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## SmittenHavaneseMommy (Feb 18, 2008)

Kohl is doing good. His stools are still okay, still no diahrea.... and he's perky again like his old self. I am going to get new food to start them on, they are both on chicken and rice for now. To let their bellys heal and simmer down.  Thanks for all your advise and help.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

So glad to hear that he is better!!!


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

i remember when my dog was a puppy something was bothering him and he was acting like your dog. i realized later that he was acting the way he was because he was not use to feeling sick or feeling the way he was so it was scaring him and he wasn't himself. just keep an eye on him, if you can lay next to him so he knows your close by that will help, sometimes rubbing their ears helps calm them, just keep things low key and quiet and keep an eye on him, i would take him to the vet tomorrow if you can and if he's not any better. sometimes my dog throws up alot if he doesn't have anything in his belly, a yellow foamy barf. i've used pepto when he's had bad gas bubbels and lookslike he's in pain and that seems to help alot.


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

I am glad that the boys are feeling better!!! I hope everyone will better soon and you can get back to taking pictures for us all!!!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

*brooke*



Me&2Girls said:


> Oh no Brooke - not Iams. Search the food threads here, but I believe Fromm's, Innova, EVO, Orijen are all pretty popular. You can go to www.dogfoodanalysis.com for more food reviews. I've also tried Taste of the Wild but it was too high in protein for my Maltese. Currently I've got him on WeeBits and seems to be doing well. The food store told me that a whitefish/fish based food is usually a safe bet. The duck and potato from Natural Balance is good but a bit drying for the coat sometimes.
> 
> Yes, ideally you'd want to gradually wean the dogs from one brand to the next but since you've had trouble, I'd go direct to the new food maybe without switching proteins so you don't get such a big reaction unless you think that protein source is part of the problems.


yes Bfrooke check this site out . I like Innova Evo it is rated no. one but there are some other good ones .


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

good to hear they are on the mend. I have my guys on fromms, evo, and evanger now


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## Salsa's Mom (Mar 18, 2008)

Glad to hear they're feeling better.


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## SnobunnieNY (Oct 24, 2007)

Brooke - if you can find a "natural" food dogs store mauybe they will give you some samples of the better rated foods to try. I did that with Boo and he definiately had a couple of favorites. He did not like the Weebits or the EVO but loves the Timberwolf, Merrick and the Orijen. we started him on the Timberwolf and have recently switched to the Orijen as it has Glucosomine/Chondrotin in it.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Brooke, Good Luck on finding a food that your babies will love. We do have a nice pet store near me and they carry all the high rated foods -- and I have got sample bags -- and not found one yet that Cicero really likes. My vet told me to not free feed -- to put it down for 15 minutes and take it up and after a few days he will learn to eat when it is offered. Well....just like me....he will not eat anything he doesn't like.

I know some will disagree with me....but I have to feed what they like...just like I did my kids. They didn't have a balanced diet either and I think I worry more now about Cicero than I did them.  My kids grew up fine -- and I have got to stop stressing about Cicero getting everything he needs in his diet. I want him to enjoy running and playing...and eating. My Pom loved Little Ceaser's and gobbled it down....and it's a low rated food....and she was healthy and lived 17 years. I tried Cicero on it one day...and yes, he loved it. So, I think "I" will feel better just knowing he likes his 2 a day meals and as long as he is not biting the hand that feeds him...I will pray he is getting what he needs to grow and be healthy.
Again, Good Luck in finding a food your furbabies enjoy....and I'm so glad they are feeling better.


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## SmittenHavaneseMommy (Feb 18, 2008)

Well I got some EVO.. they didn't eat it, wouldn't touch it. So--- we are gonna keep it down and try it for the next few days. They are eating the chicken and rice, so I know they are getting food at least. LOL I wonder if I could order some samples from some companies for them to see what they like? The only natural foods I can find here are at like Petco/Petsmart stores.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Brooke, I started ordering Fromm from Pet Food Direct.com. They have an automatic ordering system, so they'll send me food every 6 weeks, or in whatever intervals I want. Cricket has eaten the Salmon ala Veg, Chicken ala Veg and Turkey and Sweet Potato. She hasn't turned her nose up at anything


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Sorry to hear the babies have been sick.  It's always so worrisome because it could be anything from a tummy ache to some liver condition. You never know, so it was a good idea to get them checked by the vet. As to his/her recommendation of Iams, I am a little shocked, though not terribly suprised. Very few vets even know a little bit about canine nutrition. Iams is definitely not a good food. It wouldn't be exaggerating to compare Iams to McDonald's. I mean, you can eat the stuff, but do it every day for 10 years and you wont' be too healthy! lol

Hopefully the boys will enjoy Evo, it's a great food. If you got it at a pet food store, they often have samples of these types of foods you can try before paying for a whole bag. I work at such a store and we sell Fromm's, Innova, Orijen, Horizon, Nature's Variety, Solid Gold, among several others and almost all offer their food in sample sizes. Hope you can get some. 

Although it is true that you don't have to get the best of the best and still have healthy dogs, for some it's a worthy investment. Depending on the dog, some are a touch more sensitive to the quality of their foods and any little change will show up in their health. It's kind of like buying a high quality motor oil to put in your car. Sure a cheaper one will work fine, but a better one just might make the car last a little longer with fewer expenses during that time. :biggrin1: Havs are cars now. HA ! LOL You know what I mean...... ound:

Good luck, Brooke!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Brooke, if you are looking for something you can get at a petco or petsmart. I have had luck with Royal Canin. It is not considered the best, but not the worst either. But I do believe we have some champions on the forum who at least ate it for a while. And it is the only kibble I can get my boys to eat even some of. Believe me I have tried everything from bil jac right on up to orijen. I think you could try the "special 30" for both the kohl and kona. I now use a mix of the "poodle 30" and "beauty 26"-- because the poodle is higher in fiber. If wheat is a concern, read the labels... some have them some don't. I think from the dog food analysis perspective-- the bad things are the corn gluten and the dried beet pulp as they are fillers. But, I have found that one of my boys (Jasper) does better with more grain and specifically corn in his diet-- his coat is softer and he has more energy-- so like everything-- no two dogs are the same and you have to find what works for you and your dogs. There were some royal canin products in the recall-- but I feel they dealt with it appropriately and feel that they have rectified their practices.... But what I like about RC as opposed to Purina Pro Plan is there is no Menadione or other scary things like "animal digest" Oh boy-- sorry for the long post.

http://www.royalcanin.us/products/default.aspx

Mini Dog Special 30:
ingredients: Chicken meal, chicken, brown rice, rice, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, dried egg product, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), natural chicken flavor, dried brewers yeast, brewers rice flour, anchovy oil (source of EPA/DHA) , soya oil, fructo-oligosaccharides, potassium chloride, flax seed, sodium tripolyphosphate, choline chloride, salt, Vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), niacin supplement, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, riboflavin (vitamin B2)], salmon meal, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], L-carnitine, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of Vitamin E) and citric acid, rosemary extract.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

What flavour of Evo did you get? There are two that my store carries, Regular and Red Meat. When I was feeding Evo, my guys loved the Red Meat.

One other option is to feed raw. My guys have been on raw for over 6 months now and are doing fantastic. You can buy it prepackaged or make your own like I do.


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