# Lepto shots?Yes or No?



## Julie

My breeder does not recommend the Lepto vaccine,as well as many other breeders,however my vet insists it is a good idea.
Here in the state of Iowa 2 different strands have been identified and Iowa State University is recommending highly people get the dogs vaccinated against it.
For those of you who may not know,they explained it to me as urine from a wild animal.If your dog would have contact with the urine from an infected rabbit,squirrel,raccoon etc.and even get it on their paw,they could come down with this.The symptoms masquerade themselves with liver and kidney failure etc.and it is hard to diagnois,as they tend to think of getting into a chemical such as anti-freeze,or poison,and they need to rule out genetic defects etc.Lots of pets,in fact most they said die from it because it is so hard to find the cause......so my question is:

should a person have a lepto shot or not?
does anyone know the exact reason havs are not recommended to get it?
statitics etc.?

Any info would be appreciated........


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## Sissygirl

Hi Julie,

You might want to check out this thread - there was a lot of discussion on Lepto.

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=1658&highlight=vaccine+reaction

My breeder advised me not to give the Lepto shot - she said that some havanese have been know to be allergic to Leptospirosis - which is sometimes given in conjunction with the rabies shot. My vet agreed
and Sissy does not get this vaccine. It is to protect against bacteria in standing water, muddy water, etc. which Sissy is not around.

There is a couple of websites that talk about the Lepto shot and the toy group having problems with this shot.

you have to scroll down the page to read about the Lepto

http://www.dublinvet.com/petinfo/vacs/lepto_1.htm

http://www.renaissancehavanese.com/holisticdietvaccineinfo.htm

this is what they say:

We stand by our belief that the Leptospirosis (Lepto) vaccine should not be administered to any toy breed, Havanese included. It is best to keep your Havanese away from environments where they may be exposed to wild animals urine, particularly standing water and always keep an eye on your pet, never allow them to roam in wooded areas unattended.

But then Erin came back on thread #38 and gave some info that was positive.


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## Julie

I'm afraid TO get it--and afraid NOT to get it.
We have alot of squirrels and rabbits in our yard.

Thanks Marie--I'll check it out.


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang

We were looking forward to taking Pepper with us on hikes through our local national forest. I'm guessing this might not be a good idea now?  

We live in the desert outside of Los Angeles. Lepto is not a vaccine we do out here. 

Wanda


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## irnfit

I've been putting it off an my vet has only slightly nudged me about giving it. I have even more info now, so we'll see what happens. He knows I am not comfortable about giving it.


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## Julie

It is hard to know what to do......I had the vet seperate every shot Quincy got...rabies,then distemper...this is the last one...and I'm torn.


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## ama0722

Isabelle started vomitting and shaking immediately after the vet tech made a mistake and gave her the lepto shot so Dora has never had it and Belle has never received another one. Is there a way to find out how many dogs contracted the strand in your area?

Amanda


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## lfung5

I don't do that vaccine. I think the only ones I do are rabies, distemper and parvo up to a year and then blood tests(titers). No more vaccines unless they come up with no antibodies for a certain virus.


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## marjrc

This was posted on the 'big' Hav Yahoo list yesterday... Oct. 3rd.

I dont' think I'm going to have them get the Lepto shot. Ricky for sure 'no' because he doesn't like anything, but it's Sammy I worry about. He goes around with his tongue sticking out, licking everything and anything he can! He especially loves going around garbage bins and puddles. EEEEEwwwwww! He's not due 'til April, so I'll see then, but we'll most likely skip it. It's too risky.

The following excerpt is from *Dr. Ronald Schultz's "Considerations in 
Designing Effective and Safe Vaccination Programs for Dogs" dated May of 2000.*

* * * * * * * *Begin Excerpt* * * * * * * *

"Non-Core" Vaccines: Which are Needed and When?
Which "non-core" vaccines are really needed? This question is difficult to 
answer and depends on the animal and its environment.

Leptospira bacterins - The most important "non-core" vaccine is for 
leptospirosis since this infection can cause mild to severe illness and it is a 
zoonosis. The question could be asked why Leptospira bacterins are not included as "core" vaccines? The principal reason concerns vaccine efficacy - a high percentage of vaccinated dogs do not develop protective immunity, or they develop immunity for only a short duration of time. Until recently, bacterins contained only two serovars (L. canicola and L. icterohaemorrhagiae) and cross protection between leptospiral serovars does not occur.

Furthermore, the Leptospira sp bacterins are among the more reactogenic components in multi-component vaccines. Clinically, immediate and/or chronic immune-mediated reactions have been observed and, experimentally, multiple types of immune mediated hypersensitivities have been induced with leptospiral antigens. Moreover, Leptospira bacterins do not prevent infection or shedding of the organisms in the urine, even when they reduce or eliminate the clinical signs of disease.

Thus, the public health threat from organisms being shed in the environment persists. Finally, Leptospira bacterins are not considered "core vaccines" because leptospirosis is rare in many geographic regions of the USA and few or no clinical cases have occurred for many years.

Very recently, new vaccines have been licensed in the 
USA that contain L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona. The new vaccines should provide broader immunity and, hopefully, will prevent disease caused by those 
serovars. However, the new vaccine containing the four serovars requires evaluation in a large number of dogs before it is known whether it will reduce the incidence of canine leptospirosis in endemic areas and if adverse reactions are worse than those caused by current products which contain only 2 serovars.

According to our recent survey on vaccination programs, approximately 30% of veterinary practices do not vaccinate for leptospirosis. The responding 
practitioners either didn't believe that leptospirosis was a significant problem in their area or the vaccine containing L. canicola and L. icterohaemorrhagiae 
serovars failed to provide protection.

Also, there were concerns about adverse reactions when the current products were used. Approximately 50% of the veterinarians completing the survey must have felt leptospirosis was a significant problem since they vaccinated >75% of the dogs with the products containing L. canicola+icterohemorrhagiae. According to our survey Leptospira bacterins were used in more dogs than any of the other "non-core" vaccines except CPI.

* * * * * * * *End Excerpt* * * * * * * *


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## Cosmosmom

They do not reccomend the leptospirosis vaccine here in northern California . They say the strains that are now prevalent are not responsive to the vaccine . Apparently there are two different strain - the east coast strain and the west coast .
I was told that by the vet we go to in La Quinta in Southern Ca that leptospirosis was almost totally irradicated 5 years ago but it is now coming back and it is hard to treat .. .
You are right it can lethal to small breeds especially Havanese are very susceptible to the disease . it is very difficult to treat and it needs to be caught very early .. You are right - usually it is missed and it is misdiagnosed and it is then too late .. 
Cosmos breeder did not recommend giving the shot .


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## pizno

Jeesh! I'm glad (I think) I didn't know this! We did the lepto, and had no problems. Marvin finds plenty of raccoon poop (and pee, presumably)and I felt better about it, but did not know it wasn't recommended for small breeds. We also did a Lyme vacine, because we spend a lot of time in a VERY high deer ticky part of Wisconsin.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss!

Carol


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## pizno

The Fussy Puppy Gang said:


> We were looking forward to taking Pepper with us on hikes through our local national forest. I'm guessing this might not be a good idea now?
> 
> Wanda - I would not hesitate, myself, to take Marvin for long hikes. It's one of the things I really love doing with him. Havs are great trail dogs, and he loves it!
> 
> Carol


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## lfung5

I agree with Carol about the hiking. My guys can go for miles.


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## Cosmosmom

It is not transmitted in poop it is transmitted in urine and also contaminated ponds and stangnant water . It can also be transmitted by rats in their urine .. 
I now longer let my dogs check for messages meaning sniffing where dogs pee - not only dog pee may be present ..
As to hiking I think supervised hiking is fine - just be alert and aware .. supervise your dogs ..


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## Thumper

Gucci got the lepto shot, and was fine. I didn't notice anything but a little extra fatigue and soreness where the shot was given.

My vet really encouraged it because there is ALOT of wildlife here in Virginia, squirrels and rabbits are everywhere. I see them everyday, it would be near impossible for Gucci not to encounter their pee out on walks or even in our yard.

I knew there were two schools of thought on this one, but I had NO idea that it was so dangerous for ALL toy breeds? 

Too late now, we already opted to do it, based on my vet's opinion.

Oh, and there is a pond in our backyard! SO....am I starting to feel glad that I chose to get the shot now! lol, I guess it really depends on where you live and what you have around you. Sometimes, you just have to weight the pros and cons and see which one is heaviest! 

Kara


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## Julie

We have neighbors with hunting dogs that run loosefrustyThat is the nice version of how I feel about it!Now the darn thing had puppies and they are keeping one and another neighbor is keeping a pup!YUK!They are German Shorthairs or something like that--let's just say,ugly brown and white speckled dogs..They are drawn to my yard:frusty: and poop etc.and I'm afraid they will be vaccinated for Lepto,run around stepping in urine etc.from a wild infected animal,then come in my yard and Quincy will get it because he is not vaccinated.Vinnie got the lepto.I can not control what others do,but I really feel like I'm backed against a wall.If I don't get him vaccinated he could catch it and die.If I have him vaccinated he could have a reaction and die.There isn't really a clear cut answer.:decision: :decision:


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## mckennasedona

Kara's right. You have to weigh the pros and cons and look at your situation and the chances your dog could catch the disease in question and go from there.

My vet understands my reluctance to give vaccines but he did say that although he respects my choices, if my dogs do come down with whatever disease I have chosen not to vaccinate them against, they will do what they can to save them but often there isn't much they can do and my dogs could die.


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## Thumper

Julie,

It isn't an easy decision! I've made alot of tough decisions regarding Gucci that I never EVER would've anticipated when I decided to get a puppy! WHO knew? lol....that there are SO many different schools of thought on EVERYYYYYTHING.

I'm uncomfortable with commercial dog food, so I cook for her everyday. Now, if someone told me I would be doing this today...five years ago, I would've said they are outta their minds! lol, ound: :brick: Look at me NOW.

I just went with my gut on this one, I knew it was "little bit" risky, but I didn't as much research as you, which I would've gotten myself all worked up over, lol, and been torn...just as you are.

My vet really steered me towards it, and its hard when you have the breeders opinions, and the vet's opinion, but you really have to look at your LOCAL situation. Have you found any statistics on toy breeds that have negative reactions?

There is always a small risk with everything. Heck, even medicine for us humans really can reap havoc on a few people and be perfectly fine with others.

Sounds like you are backed into a corner  I don't know what you tell you, besides weigh it all out, and go with your instinct!

hugs,
Kara


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## Julie

Gosh,
It is just so scary.....I don't want to lose my Quince...and regret either way.I wish I had not really thought about it and found out about it.Like Carol,Marvin's Mom said...ignorance is bliss sometimes!:becky:


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang

Thinking about it, we've always taken our dogs camping or hiking and they've never gotten sick. 

I'm glad to hear Havs make great trail dogs. I guess the trick will be to avoid wet areas and keep him on the trail. I can't wait! 

Wanda


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## catlieber

Emma had the first of the 2 part series 3 weesk ago, and tuesday we are suppossed to get the booster. My vet had a case already reported, .. Oh Yes,,, Emma did not have a reaction. We go on walks in very wooded areas, she is not off the leash at any time, but... I actually prefer the parks to walk rather than the hiker bikerpath right outside my door.. We just seem to have a better walk. Anyway... now that I have read all of the postings i am rather hesitant tpo get the 2 part booster.. So I will have a chat with my vet. 
I never gave it a thought, other than my vet said that someone in the area already had reported having lepto,, I thought that it would be another preventative ....should have researched this before we went ahead and gave Emma the first Lepto. I believe that there is also a difference in the manufacturer of the vaccine, and also the vaccine has improved sice first introduced a fewyears ago as I recall my vet saying. 
Yikes,,, Our experience has been good..


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## Sissygirl

Julie said:


> We have neighbors with hunting dogs that run loosefrustyThat is the nice version of how I feel about it!Now the darn thing had puppies and they are keeping one and another neighbor is keeping a pup!YUK!They are German Shorthairs or something like that--let's just say,ugly brown and white speckled dogs..They are drawn to my yard:frusty: and poop etc.and I'm afraid they will be vaccinated for Lepto,run around stepping in urine etc.from a wild infected animal,then come in my yard and Quincy will get it because he is not vaccinated.Vinnie got the lepto.I can not control what others do,but I really feel like I'm backed against a wall.If I don't get him vaccinated he could catch it and die.If I have him vaccinated he could have a reaction and die.There isn't really a clear cut answer.:decision: :decision:


Julie,

If you do the shot - ask the vet to separate it from other vaccines. You might check to see if it is the shot itself or if it is given with the other shots.

Just a thought


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## Thumper

Julie,

What did you decide, honey? 

Kara


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## Julie

I actually haven't decided yet either way...I'm still sitting on the fence about it.This weekend I had a female hunting dog with two pups running (they are weaned and stuff,and bigger then Quince)around in my yard and the big one pooped!I almost had a stroke trying to hurry and get it picked up!Not because of Lepto,but because I didn't want Vin or Quincy to sniff around it and Quincy taste it or something gross!The neighbor is roofing a big garage and I talked to him about the dogs.:frusty:It didn't do any good!His dogs--the mother and 1 pup are his,wear those electric shock collars and he said they have a remote if she doesn't come when called etc.he shocks her.So guess what?He thinks it is ok to let them run loose and poop etc.in others yards---of course for some crazy reason,they just love to be in MY yard...and the puppies?The neighbor next to him bought one(that's why there are 2)and they are just drawn to me...if I'm outside and either one of them are too--here they come!One peeks at me and just sits and watches every move I make,with a longing in the eyes,that just is pathetic...and I just hate hunting dogs!I told the neighbor I would like to put up a fence...he never even caught on!:brick:
Anyway---I think if Quincy did get the Lepto and had a reaction...they can reverse that right?I'm going to ask my vet,but I thought that was the case?


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## susaneckert

Do they ever catch on about a fence no I plan on talking to my vet about Lepto too


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## Cosmosmom

I am very interested to hear as well . Three local vets including vets at U/C Davis said the lepto vaccine does not work for the strain that is out there here in Ca ..
I am not trying to alarm anyone or tell anyone what to do - maybe they have come up with something new in the past year .. 
Cosmos breeder was quite clear about not recommending it for Havanese especially puppies . It was in her Dos and Don't .. 
Friends of mine who live near the Russian River immunized their Bichon Frise and he is OK ..


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## Thumper

Julie said:


> I actually haven't decided yet either way...I'm still sitting on the fence about it.This weekend I had a female hunting dog with two pups running (they are weaned and stuff,and bigger then Quince)around in my yard and the big one pooped!I almost had a stroke trying to hurry and get it picked up!Not because of Lepto,but because I didn't want Vin or Quincy to sniff around it and Quincy taste it or something gross!The neighbor is roofing a big garage and I talked to him about the dogs.:frusty:It didn't do any good!His dogs--the mother and 1 pup are his,wear those electric shock collars and he said they have a remote if she doesn't come when called etc.he shocks her.So guess what?He thinks it is ok to let them run loose and poop etc.in others yards---of course for some crazy reason,they just love to be in MY yard...and the puppies?The neighbor next to him bought one(that's why there are 2)and they are just drawn to me...if I'm outside and either one of them are too--here they come!One peeks at me and just sits and watches every move I make,with a longing in the eyes,that just is pathetic...and I just hate hunting dogs!I told the neighbor I would like to put up a fence...he never even caught on!:brick:
> Anyway---I think if Quincy did get the Lepto and had a reaction...they can reverse that right?I'm going to ask my vet,but I thought that was the case?


I'm not sure if they can reverse it or not call the vet and ask?

YIKES on the neighbors! I have neighbors like that myself! They have NO problem letting their dog crap and PUKE in my yard! Last week, we found a mound of puke on our DRIVEWAY. Husband was SOOO mad and I was utterly disgusted. The kicker was, their hose is right on that side of the house and they COULD'VE easily washed it off for us, if they were cool like that, but apparently NOT. I'm so sick of their dog, but I feel sorry for it. She has been out back ALL day barking non stop! And whining. Neglected. I flip out because they aren't taking it to the vet for shots and fleas, etc. and I dont' want Gucci on that side of the backyard even NEAR the dog.

I think I would seriously consider a fence if I were you! I am not a fan of hunting dogs either, but I think Quincy and Vinnie would be safer if they aren't exposed to them. God knows what they pick up in the woods.

Kara


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## dboudreau

I did decide to give Sam the Lepto vaccine. The vet recommended it because there have been cases in my area. We live on 5 acres with a drainage stream on one side. Sam had no reaction. After giving the vaccine we waited in the waiting room for about 20 -30 minutes, the vet said if he were to have a reaction it would happen quickly and they could treat him.

I do believe that good fences make great neighors. I certainly don't miss our last neighbors. They left their 6 week old lab baby out tied to a tree all day, with no food or water. The poor thing cried all day. They never spoke to me again after I called Animal control, they made them put up a outdoor kennel, so at least the pup didn't get tangled around a tree, but still cried all day. We were very happy to move from there.


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## Lynn

I did check today at the Vets about the Letro shot and she said they don't get it to small breeds because of possible reactions. I do have raccoons in my back yard at night sometimes, so I am going to keep researching this.


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## anneks

I opted to not get the vaccine. After reading about it I decided that we were not at high risk for catching the disease, my vet agreed. I also made them split up her other vaccines. Mirabel had lot's of pain after her vaccinations and micro-chipping. I will be asking for titers before any vaccinations in the future. It still kills me that they give my 3 lb puppy the same dose of vaccine as a full grown st. bernard (or any large breed).


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## Julie

I did have my vet seperate all the shots Quincy had.It made more trips to the vet,but safer for my guy.I had them seperate Rabies and Distemper.The last one is this Lepto...still no decision yet.:decision:


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## Guest

So, did you get Quincy the Lepto shot? Just wondering if you had and if there where any reactions.


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## irnfit

I still haven't given mine Lepto shots. I am holding out.


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## Julie

Quincy did not get the lepto shot---nor did my sheltie Vinnie. I decided it was unneccessary-----but now,I'm noticing more and more wildlife in my yard and hunting dogs running loose. I always knew we had rabbits,but they actually poop alot in my yard,I see in the snow. For 2008 I will get lepto for my boys.


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## Havtahava

The problems with Lepto are:
- the one vaccine with the most negative reactions in dogs
- is effective against only a few strains (estimated as low as 20%), so if your dog gets Lepto, it is more likely to get one strain that isn't in the vaccine
- only lasts a short time (does not give a lifetime immunity like Rabies, Distemper and/or Parvo)
- Leptospirosis is often treated successfully (without having the vaccine)

Leptospirosis _is_ a serious disease, and can be deadly, but if you catch the symptoms you can treat it too. If you live in an area with an abundance of wildlife, it is good to discuss this with your veterinarian based on your location and lifestyle.

Having said that, I choose not go utilize this innoculation and I recommend that my puppy homes do not get it either, but that they keep a close eye on their dogs and watch for unusual symptoms, always.


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## Guest

We live in Wisconsin, out in the country. Coyotes, fox, rabbits, squirrel, deer, raccoons, chipmonks, skunks and more oh my. We also have a stream/creek that runs through our backyard that leads into a local river. 

My dogs (None Havanese) were/are vaccinated for Lepto per vets recommedations because it is in our state.

Just wondering if those who were in 'danger' of contracting it, decided to opt in or opt out.

** Taking notes for our future Havanese ;-)


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## brandy

I was against it because I didnt want to take a chance of reaction and it not really being necessary at the time but now it's around and since it can be passed to humans I do it. My friends Weimeriner was diagnosed with it and now my friend has it too. Not a good thing! The vaccine company's are doing a lot more with the Lepto vaccine. They now cover way more strains, like 80%, I think and they are less reactive. My dogs just had it with no problems at all and being a Veterinary Nurse I have to say it's mostly been Rabie vaccines that come back in with reactions. Corona too but that was a long time ago, no one gives that now. Lepto was the last on the reactions we saw. Merrill company Lepto vaccines are the ones that I would reccomend. Stay away from the Fort Dodge Lepto for now at least.


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## littlebuddy

i took information to my vet regarding lepto. i had given in to my dog a few years ago and it took it's toll. he was out of it for days, had a fever, i told myself never agina. i took all the info to the vet, he agreed and we decided not to give lepto to my dog. bottom line, if it is something you are uncomfortable giving your dog, you don't do it. rabies on the other hand, a must but some of these other vacs. we need to rethink.


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## Havtahava

When it comes to vaccines, you all might want to check out Dr. Jean Dodds and her web site for information. She's the leading authority on vaccines and most veterinary associations are leaning towards her protocol.


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## irnfit

We have to give rabies, as it is a state law. I have not given Lepto, for the reasons Kimberly has posted. We don't have any wildlife except for racoons once in a while, squirrels and the occasional wacko walking down my street.

They are due now for shots and I am going to a new vet, so I am sure we will be having this conversation.


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## irnfit

Thanks Kimberly. I just printed that out and will bring it to the vet.


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## Havtahava

irnfit said:


> We have to give rabies, as it is a state law. I have not given Lepto, for the reasons Kimberly has posted. We don't have any wildlife except for racoons once in a while, squirrels and the occasional wacko walking down my street.


ound: OK, you made me laugh on that last part, Michele!

You're welcome.

I'm a little hesitant to give Rabies when they are young, but I am required to give it to my dogs, so I just hold out until they are closer to six months unless my local license enforcement says something sooner. My veterinarian is very accommodating with holding off or getting me in right away. The only wild animals we have around here are squirrels, birds and a couple of feral cats, but my dogs are rarely in my own backyard unsupervised.


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## casperkeep

My breeder told me about the protocol you guys were talking about....My dogs go in our backyard that is fenced but we are out there with them.....I am sure we have some wildlife but I do not think we have alot coming through our yard plus we have a fence as well.


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## Lola'smom

I found this site too late, while trying to read about Lepto immunization adverse reactions in Havanese.

We have a 3yr old spayed beauty named Lola, who has been seen at the same vet office for 3 yrs. She has never had this vaccine before nor has it been suggested.

But yesterday afternoon a new vet was filling in at the practice when I took Lola in for a ck up and said she should have it. I asked why and she told me that "it's best." I said I felt strange about it given that our regular vet had never suggested it, but--I cannot forgive myself--she insisted and I gave in.

Lola shrieked with pain when I took her off the exam table and within 15 minutes had gone into shock. She vomited, gums turned white, shallow rapid breathing, complete and utter listlessness and lethargy.

I rushed back to the vet's office where she had to be given steroids, oxygen and benadryl for it and she stayed there till stable a few hours later, when we brought her home.

I've spent hours looking for info about this and I have spoken to the office mgr and will speak to the regular vet--who owns the practice--later today. But I have talked to the American Vet Medical Assoc, the CDC, etc, because I think it has to be notated that this is particularly dangerous for toy breeds in general and Havanese in particular.

Lola is 14 lbs, house dog who we take on walks around our neighborhood, with no contact with rodents or any of that. Doesn't go to dog parks. 

I cannot tell you how upset I am about this.


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## Sheri

Oh, my goodness, Lola'smom!! How awful! I'm so sorry for you, for Lola; how terrifying! I hope she's better, all better, today? I'm so glad that you are going to talk to people about this. And, I'm very glad that you were able to get her back into the clinic in time to help her!

Oh, MY!

Sheri and Tucker


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## Pixiesmom

Wow-I'm really sorry about poor Lola!
Pixie did have the Lepto shot and she was around 3 pounds at the time. I did question it and my vet said lepto is very prevalant in FL. The vaccines were all seperated. This is the same vet Pixie's breeder uses and has used for years with her Havs. No reaction whatsoever in Pixie. Lola was unfortunately one of the dogs who was sensitive to Lepto. Feel better Lola!!

Beth and Pixie Puff


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## joemodeler

I am sorry to hear of your shock and your dog’s reaction. How frightening.

We were told by our breeder of our new pup not to have this shot given. Our Vet is trying to convince us but so far we are standing our ground. Our breeder informed us that if you know your dog you will know something is wrong and thereby you will take the dog to the Vet and Lepto will be easily identified and is treatable. If I recall properly it is the third shot that could be fatal. My thoughts are with you and your dog.


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## Poornima

I am so sorry to hear Lola. How terrifying for you and her. I pray that Lola recovers soon and gets back to good health at the earliest. 


After moving to Long Island, a vet strongly recommended Lepto shot for Benji and Lizzie. My breeder told me not to give the shot. And when I read up on the possible scenarios of contracting the infection, I realized that our risk was extremely low.


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## Eva

How scary for you and Lola!  
My breeder had warned me about Lepto when I brought Todd home and so I had a whole speech planned out in case I needed to use it with my Vet. Luckily she was aware that Lepto should be avoided and so I never got a chance to argue my case..lol


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## Sheri

Eva said:


> How scary for you and Lola!
> My breeder had warned me about Lepto when I brought Todd home and so I had a whole speech planned out in case I needed to use it with my Vet. Luckily she was aware that Lepto should be avoided and so I never got a chance to argue my case..lol


Eva,
Who is your breeder?

Sheri and Tucker


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## Eva

Sheri said:


> Eva,
> Who is your breeder?
> 
> Sheri and Tucker


Stephanie Penner at Alderon Havanese.
She is in Toledo, Wa. which is about 10 minutes from me


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## Paradise Havs

Two years ago my vet said that his practice was now recommending lepto shots for all dogs as there is now lepto in wildlife. My two Haves had the shot and were scheduled for boosters. That afternoon Eddie was acting weird and when I looked at him his eyes were almost swollen shut and his gums were pale. I tossed him in the car and took him back to the vet. They gave him an antihistamine shot and some steroids. When he was doing better I took him home and cancelled all the booster. I called my breeder and she said that they are not recommending lepto. It is a gamble I guess. But I haven't given any more lepto.


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## Sheri

Eva said:


> Stephanie Penner at Alderon Havanese.
> She is in Toledo, Wa. which is about 10 minutes from me


Eva, I've PM'd ya.

Sheri


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## DanielBMe

No lepto for either of my guys. If I lived in an area where it was really required I might, but still not sure of the safety of it.


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## pjewel

How terrifying that had to be for you and poor Lola. I too was told, not by my breeder but a friend who breeds bichons, to avoid the Lepto shot. My vet had the same reaction as many and tried to change my mind. I stuck to my guns and refuse to take a chance with my babies when there have been so many reported issues with this vaccine. How is Lola feeling now?


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## Lynn

I am so sorry about Lola, I am just so glad she is ok now.


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## EMarie

I hope Lola is ok, but I want everyone to understand that your dog can have a systemic (hives, swollen eyes, panting ect) reaction to any injection, vaccine or medication. It it is your bodies response, yes you give dex (a steroid) and benadryl to counter act the reaction but it can happen with anything. Infact my pit will find something in our backyard to bite him about 1 a month in the summer which causes the same reactions. But the same injection can also cause an anafilactic reaction wich is much more fatal but anything can cause it. I would recommend everyone reasearch the vaccine and then discuss it with your vet. If they recommend it ask why and if they don't ask why. You can decided one way or another but make sure you have all the education you need. Don't just listen to your breeder, while there are some really smart one who have done their own reasearch many of them have not veterinary expirence and are going on what so and so has told them. I personally do not give it to my dogs anymore, but all of them have been vaccinated for it. And like I have said on a different thread, make sure you always split your vaccines up!! Never let your vet give more than 1 maybe 2 shots at the same time. Your DHPP is one vaccine and even in children always split them up. O yeah and it takes the same amount of antigen to stimulate the immune system in a 4 pound dog or a 100 pound dog that is why they get the same shot. Sorry this is a bad subject for me because I believe that many people just don't get all the information and are misled by many different people...
I do hope Lola is feeling better though, that is never anything fun to go through. Not to mention it can get scary if you have not seen it before!!


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