# Hybrid dogs??



## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Wow,, look at this little cross breed havanese dog... tons of cross bred havs on this dog finder website.. pretty odd.

http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/dogs/e77db0c3-aed1.aspx


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

The name of next day pets screamed puppy mill to me! It is a shame with some of these cross breeds- I especially hate the pugles- dogs that were breed to run for miles mixed with dogs with breathing problems... yikes!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I find it hard to believe that that dog will have the personality of a Hav, or even look like one. What a shame!!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

OMG, that "havachi" has got to be the saddest looking pup ever! It's just soooooooo stupid, it leaves me furious!  I'm emailing the seller. Going to give her a piece of my mind. hehehe

I'll keep you posted.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

O.k. I HAD to do it. Perhaps I've set myself up for an attack of some kind, but I don't care. Here's what I wrote directly to the seller:

*I notice your mixed Havanese breeds on here and can't help but wonder if you realize what you are doing by mixing breeds! The Havanese is an incredibly happy, intelligent and lovable breed and though you may think you are getting the 'best' of both breeds that you mix, you can not possibly guarantee that you will not end up with the WORST. Health issues and weight problems and even behavioural dilemmas can leave many of those purchasing these mutts from you with long-term worries and financial woes.

I can't help but think you are running a puppy mill and doing this only for the money. No reputable, knowledgeable and conscientious breeder would EVER knowingly mix a breed to any and all other kinds of breeds for a quick sale. How sad that people out there don't realize what you are up to.

Yes, 'hybrids' and 'designer dogs' are simply other words for mutts. I tell everyone I know that if they want a mixed breed, they might as well save one from a shelter than give people like you a single penny.

I just read the site's "How to Identify a Good Breeder" and I'm afraid that you do not fit the bill. May I recommend that you read up on breeding and perhaps you will have a change of heart and no longer sell these poor pups... ?*

So? You think I should protect myself from the onslaught of emails I might get?? Ahhhh...... but it feels good to vent.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Wow you are daring!! You might just get a 2 word answer & I cant type it here  Good for you for standing up for our beautiful babies!!!!!


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

GOOD FOR YOU, MARJ. YOU TELL'M GIRL. Let us know if you hear back.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

go for it Marj. We'll help you write replies to the reply should it be rude. But I doubt you'll get a reply- people like that are business people and won't waste their time on people who won't do business with them. 

Not to be rude here...But what would you call Havanese and a ****zu? Do you think that designer dog may have a life time of gastro-intestinal problems? 

Ohh perhaps I shouldn't have stooped so low- but I couldn't resist.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

ohhh look the web sit deleted the first part of my wrong spelling of Shih tzu. but you get it. good work Melissa.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Thanks guys. I got a confirmation that the email was sent, but who knows if and when I'll get a reply. I just hope I don't get into some kind of trouble!!  You'll all bail me out should that happen, though, right ??  

Yep, Missy, that would be one crappy puppy!! LMBO


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I guess since you are defending the bunch of us - we will bail you out!!


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## Callalilly (Apr 30, 2007)

Missy said:


> Not to be rude here...But what would you call Havanese and a ****zu? Do you think that designer dog may have a life time of gastro-intestinal problems?


OMG Thanks for the laugh!!!! That is hilarious, but I hope we never see one listed for sale, eerie how possible it is!

Hee Hee that'll make me giggle all day!! 

Thanks!!
Lisa


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Lisa, glad I could help with a laugh. Callie is such a sweetie. she reminds me of an owl. or Gizmo. we need more pictures...


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## Callalilly (Apr 30, 2007)

Missy said:


> Lisa, glad I could help with a laugh. Callie is such a sweetie. she reminds me of an owl. or Gizmo. we need more pictures...


Wow Missy, I hadn't noticed how much Callie looks like Gizmo! Maybe we should have named her Giz, but she really is more of a girlie Callie type!
I found this picture of Gizmo..

And the Owl....yes she looks one of those also...

I will have to post more pictures of her soon so you can see she really is a puppy


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Marj- I *LOVE* your e-mail. I'm a firm believer in speaking out when you see something wrong. We'll totally support you should you receive a rude reply, but the seller probably knows you are right and won't bother. Good work!!


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Callie does look alot like Gizmo, but much cuter!


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I saw the puppies last week and posted it somewhere here, I just can't remember where. I don't know what they are going to come up with next. Our poor little Havs are being turned into beasts.  

I found Kodi on nextdaypets and feel I was very, very lucky. He is a great dog, fits the breed to a T, and has a very good pedigree. I even met his sire's breeder at Westminster in Feb. However, you have to check these people out, because a lot of them seem very fishy.


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

*No...these dogs look like Gizmo...*










OH and

How about the gremlins when they turn BAD....

EEEK...










Trish


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Until I saw the pictures, I didn't think dogs could be that ugly. I don't think even a mother could love that face. Sorry if I have offended anyone.


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

haha..I was at the vet today and they were like..'this is a petland dog, right?' and the same time that the vet tech said no, I flinched and said absolutely not. The vet asked me about my reaction and I was like..'have you been there?? They HAVE to support puppy mills..their animals are open for the public to pick up and carry around and their puppies are overpriced and hybrids. I walked out of there 5 minutes after I arrived. I would never support them' ...the vet smiled and was like..'I had no idea you were so informed.' I told him I read a lot online..lol. A lot here actually..


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

OMG!!!! The word Fugly come to mind!!! These dogs look positevely scarry!!!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Callie is so cute and her markings are like Gizmo, but she is so much cuter and sweeter 

Marj, you are brave!! You go girl 

As for the gremlin pics, those HAD to be morphed..... There is no way that dogs could look so ugly even if the breeders were bad


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Lisa, now that I see the picture, Callie is soooo much cuter! can't wait to see more picts of her. 

TNTWalter, where did you find those dogs???? I agree not sure even a mother could love the bottom one.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Missy said:


> Lisa, now that I see the picture, Callie is soooo much cuter! can't wait to see more picts of her.
> 
> TNTWalter, where did you find those dogs???? I agree not sure even a mother could love the bottom one.


The bottom one is a Chinese Crested and won the Ugliest Dog Contest 2005 at the Sonoma Marin Fair. He passed away last year. Here's the URL to Snopes http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/uglydog.asp

Yeah, he's not such a beauty.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Here you go, a Havanese/Shih-tzu cross puppy!

http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/dogs/deda2801-18b1.aspx


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

I viewed this site and the weird thing about the site is that there seems to be s lot of older pups for sale and the prices are very "up and down". Seems less expensive for a younger puppy. I don't like places like this. The pics could be stolen and the breeder names false. Who knows. It's nice to look before you buy, justy not online but face to little tiny face.

Derek


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

*Yes Sam wone Ugliest dogs 2 years in a row but has sadly [or thankfully]*

passed on.

The other dogs are called "mi-ki" and they're a fancy mixed breed that costs $2500+. Some breeders are mixing too many different breeds to create them. They're supposed to be a mix of Japanese chin, maltese, & papillon. There's a lot of strife and there are several official clubs. Sad for the dogs.

I found the breed because some havanese breeders also sell mi-kis and I emailed asking prices of dogs and received prices for both breeds.
Trish


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## amy94 (Mar 30, 2007)

The thing that gets me is how much they're selling these mixed puppies for! They are selling them for as much, if not more than if they were purebred.
Amy


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## Suuske747 (May 9, 2007)

Well done for that letter!!!

I have done several letters alike here in the Netherlands to ppl on a similar site to petfinder....I've had one response, which would have many bleeped words if I'd translate it, and from the other ones I never got a response....

I'm curious to hear if you will get a response....but well done!!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Well the Hav-a-shihtzu puppy is actually pretty cute.... But who knows what sort of problems could arise.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Thank you for your encouragement! I do appreciate it. I think that it's a little easier to complain and vent via impersonal emails, but at least I did. I just had to do something to let this seller know what i thought! Not that she'll care either way, I'm sure........ no response yet. I doubt I'll ever get one.  After seeing that other seller with the ShihTzu/Hav mix, I'm thinking maybe I should email ALL sellers that are mixing.....!!! hehehe I wonder if I could get into some kind of "trouble" over that.  

Capotesmom, great reply to your vet! It is so important to be aware of what's out there. Even good vets sometimes see nothing wrong with these 'next day' sites or with mixing breeds. Nice to know your vet was on the ball too.

Michele, I'm glad things worked out for you and Kodi. There probably are a handful of sellers on there that are quite legit and see nothing wrong in the selling on that site. Thing is, it all semms so "used car dealer"-like that it smells fishy!!  I wouldn't trust any seller on there.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I agree - I was sick when I saw what they had decided to use as the breeding companion .. Yilkes a Chewawwa. That is so wrong - those dogs have aggressive tendencies . I have almost been biten by those dogs twice .
I guess Iwill do as my Mom says and if I do not have anything positive to say - do not say anything .. but 
This is so wrong !! it should be stopped and yes you are right - it is just a business I doubt they will respond but thanks for sending the e mail !


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Ryan, I checked out that link you sent and from there you can visit the seller's "kennel". They breed, get this...... Terrier, ShihTzu, HavaShu, Shiffon, Dachshund, Chiweenie, Chihuahua, and Doxie-Poo.  What? Only those??! Gggggrrrrrr! How on earth can they do it ALL right? Beats me.

Here's what they say about shipping to new buyers:

*SHIPPING YOUR PUPPY

Shipping is very easy for you. We make all the arrangements for you and notify you of the flight schedule. All you have to do is go to the airport and pick up your new puppy. You will need a photo I.D.(drivers license) to pick up the puppy at the airport. The cost for shipping in the main 48 states of America is $225. If you live outside this area we would have to check on pricing. You may also drive to pick up your puppy.
Pay me securely with any major credit card through PayPal! 
*

How convenient!!!  Not one word about how it will be o.k. for the pup, that his/her experience with being shipped is a priority in the breeders' mind. Then they post this on their home page:

*We are happy that you have came to visit our website. We live in beautiful Cassville, MO with our 2 children. They love to spoil and play with our babies. We believe lots of love along with a high quality puppy food like Eukanuba small breed puppy food needs to be given to these precious babies. It is also important to give the latest and best vaccines. *

Yeah, a loving family with two kids. Sure ! MAYBE, maybe not. No recommendations as to what vaccines, no info on what raising a puppy entails, no links to ressources for important advice, nothing...... Just pick a blended pup and pay!

Oh, I'm so angry, I could spit!


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

*mix pups*

yeah, these mixed pups could be problems. I went into the PJ's petstore on the wknd and they had tons of mixed breed dogs. alost all were.. not many purebreds in that store! And the prices are redicuolous. its cheaper to get a health tested purebred from a breeder than to bu a mixed dog with no testing records..


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Here's another site to check out: http://havanesehugs.com/contact.html

This was just posted on the large Havanese list.

This is what the site says:

_Our mini size Havanese average 5 1/2 - 7 1/2 pounds as adults.
Our teenie tiny size Havanese average 3 1/2 - 5 1/2 pounds as adults. *SCARY!  *So much for the "tough, big dog in a small pkg. These are TOO small to be tough!" *
Our mini and teenie tiny size Havanese
have all the same wonderful traits of the regular size Havanese.
They just come in a smaller package...
They are very rare... and they are hard to find! *Unfortunately, not for long! *
Our mini Havanese and our Teenie Tiny Havanese
are now only being sold on spay/neuter contracts._ *Thankfully!! *

They have pictures of all their pups - and there are MANY!! The pups look like a Hav as a baby, I find, but as they grow older, not so much. Their faces seem quite different to me. Maybe it's just me, cuz I'm biased....

What these unscrupulous breeders don't get is there is a reason why they are "so rare"! They aren't meant to be so tiny! Grrrrrr! 

Oh yeah! They also don't invite anyone to their home/kennel. They will "gladly" meet you at the airport. How convenient!! Can anyone say "RED FLAG" ?!!


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## vfeldman (Jan 26, 2007)

Maybe they are hard to find and rare because they have health problems and they die! Hate to be hard nosed; but the standard is the standard....people should experiment in the kitchen....if it flops you can always order pizza!

What is with the $225 for shipping? The most expensive shipping rate with Delta is $153.00 or there is a formula for poundage.....since they are so small and tiny......


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

vfeldman said:


> What is with the $225 for shipping? The most expensive shipping rate with Delta is $153.00 or there is a formula for poundage.....since they are so small and tiny......


Ahhh but if they only charge what the airlines charge where's the *profit* in that?? These people are not about the breed, the puppies health and well being, or the owners continued happiness-they are about making money!


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## vfeldman (Jan 26, 2007)

yeah.....i know....makes me sick! If these dogs only knew how they were manipulated!


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Scarry stuff!!! This breeder has joined with Kansas Mini Havanese, the breeders from whom Pennylite got her little guy (can't remeber the name). This definitely can't be good, as they are joining forces and growing. You would be surprised how popular the tiny dogs have gotten ever since Legally Blond movie....sigh. On top of that all the movie stars are now carrying those sickly looking (in my opinion) purse puppies. I think this is the main reason these tiny dogs are popping up everywhere. I never noticed the tiny breeds being quite that popular before.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

These people don't have any regard for the breed. They are only in it for the $$$. If they cared about the breed, then they would breed to the standard, do the testing, etc., etc. It is much more profitable to breed these misfit pups, not have to test, not register them, and charge lots of money to unsuspecting consumers. 

We have to find a way to stop these people. If PETA can implant their crazy ideas, then why can't all the legit people and pet owners get together to fight this? There has to be a way. These are the pups that are ending up in shelters, or worse, because of health problems.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

I bet there's a huge percentage of congenital liver shunts in those pups. I've always been told to avoid a pup that is significantly smaller than it should be....its often a sign of poor health and serious problems. Of course, these people specifically pick the smallest pups and use them for breeding. Talk about a recipe for disaster!!


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## judith (Dec 15, 2006)

*"cream of the crop"*

havanesebydesign.com


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

We are all right! Because of what we know, and thanks to being able to share information, questions and worries with breeders from all over, with other Hav owners here at the forum, we can see this for what it is... a business, pure and simple. I had no idea it was so "wrong" a year ago, sad to admit.  I'm sure someone looking for a cute, quaint, furcritter they can carry around that won't poop too big has no idea what they are getting into when they buy a 'mini' or 'teeny'.

What people dont' realize is that being "registered" with APRI means nothing! It's a simple pet registry, no standards need to be met. Belonging to some kind of "Teeny Club of America" doesn't mean squat when your puppy is having trouble breathing at 2 yrs. of age or has joint problems and can barely see!!  gggggrrrrrrrr 

Yes, Penny Lite's Hav, Darby, was a great example of what kind of health concerns can occur in a young pup. They had no idea they were getting a pup from a BYB with few scruples. Luckily, the wee thing made it o.k. after his first bout of sickeness and hopefully, he continues to do well today. We haven't heard from her in a long while......


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

You know, Judith, that website "hav by design" doesn't look bad! They sound legit, caring and not in it for the money. It's quite possible that these dogs are happy and healthy, but there is no control. No history of lineage, parents' health, what mixing the breeds can bring out in their pups.... too many "if's"!  But they are quite convincing.... I wonder if anyone here has dealt with them, asked questions, emails, etc.... I'm curious. Anyone?


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## Suuske747 (May 9, 2007)

marjrc said:


> Here's another site to check out: http://havanesehugs.com/contact.html
> 
> They have pictures of all their pups - and there are MANY!! The pups look like a Hav as a baby, I find, but as they grow older, not so much. Their faces seem quite different to me. Maybe it's just me, cuz I'm biased....


I completely agree!!! These are mixed breeds!! Must be, that small.....probably mixed with chi's to get them smallers.....




marjrc said:


> Here's another site to check out: http://havanesehugs.com/contact.html
> 
> What these unscrupulous breeders don't get is there is a reason why they are "so rare"! They aren't meant to be so tiny! Grrrrrr!
> 
> Oh yeah! They also don't invite anyone to their home/kennel. They will "gladly" meet you at the airport. How convenient!! Can anyone say "RED FLAG" ?!!


I sooooooooooo agree!!! But what can we do as long as the law is not on our side....that's the whole problem!!! Here in the Netherlands too....it's terrible!!!


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Wow..this one is odd...

http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/dogs/fc663b63-1a51.aspx

Can that really happen?


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## aak (Mar 16, 2007)

My aunt has a dog that has only one ear because his mama licked the other one off at birth.

aak


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Yikes That is horrible. Where were the "human" parents when this was happening???
Laurie


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## jolynn (Dec 26, 2006)

*Mixed Hav Breeds*

We've had one 'lady' that comes into our store (where Skiver goes every day) that has insisted she wants to breed her mixed dog with him. My husband has been much more polite than I would have been!!! and just keeps saying, we are not going to breed him. She just keeps insisting. Then when we got him neutered, she got really mad! What a B*#&%^. Like she had some kind of right to breed with him.

Gosh, even if I didn't have that written in my contract, I wouldn't have done it. She did not have a Havanese, why would I allow a breeding? She's gonna do the same thing when she sees Seaclaid. She won't say a word when I'm there, cuz I've known her for years, she knows I'd say what I think, and it wouldn't be nice :brick:

BTW, did I mention that we pick up Seaclaid on the 16th??? wooohooooo!!!!!!eace:


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

It is awfully rude for her to do that!! Especially to get mad!:crazy: 
the 16th will be here before you know it! - Although it wont seem like that to you. Any new pics of Seaclaid?
Laurie


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## jolynn (Dec 26, 2006)

His breeder emailed me today and promised some pictures within the next couple of days. When I get them, I'll share!!


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Joanne, #1 - Congratulations on your new pup and where are the photos?!!! :whoo: 

#2 - I was one of the lucky ones. I got Kodi through nextdaypets, but these were legit people. Kodi comes from great lines. His sire's breeder also shows dogs, and I met her at Westminster in Feb. When I got Shelby, the breeder forgot to mark off the little box that says "limited reg". If I was dishonest, I could have left it blank and then bred Shelby with anything I wanted. But I filled in the little box. I knew her faults and wouldn't think of breeding her. When I do decide to breed, I will do it the right way. I love this breed to much not do everything possible to do the right thing.

Sorry, I get carried away. I feel very passionate about this. :rant:


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

:frusty: Havanese hugs/Kansas breeder:frusty: 
They are associated with each other......isn't it sad that another jumped on board the teenie wagon to disaster?
When I looked at these sites,the dogs don't even look right to me.uke:


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

freeway1976 said:


> Wow..this one is odd...
> 
> http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/dogs/fc663b63-1a51.aspx
> 
> Can that really happen?


This lady (I can't use what I think), has 44 puppies for sale under 6 weeks old. Scarry, no wonder the pup was hurt by its Mom. :frusty:


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Well if that doesn't SCREAM "Puppy Mill" then, I am not sure what does!! How awful, it just disgusts me!!:frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty:


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

O.k., well..... you know ME! I just HAD to email this woman "AngelaAngie", though I didn't rant and rave. :spy: I decided to email requesting more info on that poor "special baby" as well as the parents. I asked if she health tests, etc... 

Should be interesting if she replies and what she has to say! I'll let you all know. THEN I'll blast her!!!!! hehehe :brick: :boom:


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Hey Marj,

Don't be shy, just tell her how you really feel.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

hEY MARJ, did you ever hear from that other one that you blasted??:rant:


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Nope, never heard a thing. Not very surprised. I blasted two diff. people, now going to see how this last one will respond to my 'innocent' questions. 

I'm sure if I had the time, I could sit at the computer all day long and see ads for Hav pups for sale that most likely come from mills or BYB. Sad to think they are a dime a dozen.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

You go Marj, you let 'em have it  I think they deserve what's coming to them, seeing that they are so irresponsible towards dogs. Crazy people!!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

*Well...... I got a reply to my "innocent" email query. Here's what I asked...*

"I would like more information, please, on the Havanese puppies you have available.

I find it quite alarming that the mother of your 'special baby' chewed off his toes. What could have caused her to do this?

Are both parents purebred Havanese? Do you have a website I can visit? What health tests have these dogs had?

Thank you for your reply!
Marjorie R.C."

*And here's her reply:*

"i think i explaned it was moms first litter and she was nervous. yes the are fullblooded as i stated they are reg aca. they have had all shots and wormings. there isnt much more you do for a dog.

penny"

*The dam is "nervous" so she chews off her puppy's toes??? Have any of the breeders at this forum ever experienced this? 
NO? Well, then, maybe you aren't really observant! :doh: Maybe you were so busy NOT doing more for your dog, that you forgot to count all the pups' toes before they left your home!!?? Could it be?! :crazy: 

And thank goodness, Penny's pups are "fullblooded". We wouldn't want to get any pups that are missing a pint or two, now would we??

OH! And let's not forget that they are REGISTERED, with ACA no less! OOOOOOOOOooooooooo!!! I am so impressed!

"There isn't much more you do for a dog"??? AAACCCKKKK!!! :brick: Somebody let me at this woman!!! :rant: :fencing: :frusty: 
*

Edited for my 'ack' expletive!


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

Ooh, YOU GO GIRL!!::crutch: Excuse me but what is ACK?? Seems to me not all her oars are in the water.....if you know what I mean!:suspicious: :crazy: :bolt:


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Well, Vicki, ACK can be spelled AAAAACCCCCKKKKK!!!!! Or AARRRGGGGGHHH!!!! Either way, it's me letting out a bit of steam. LOL 
You know, it does look like it could be some dog club acronym or something! OOPS!~ :redface: ound: 

I am itching to reply to her post, but I want to think on it. Any suggestions??


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

Refresh my memory....did someone on this forum get a pup from this person or inquire about one??


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## amy94 (Mar 30, 2007)

Sounds like she was pretty rude and defensive for no reason. Are you going to reply back to her?
Amy


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

:whoo:


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Her last statement says it all. *PUPPY MILL, PUPPY MILL, PUPPY MILL!!!*
:rant:


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## vfeldman (Jan 26, 2007)

Marj, you crack me up! In the midst of all this horribleness with people like this woman, I had visions of hanging IV bags of blood! She sounds worse than ignorant; it is very scary. Too bad you don't have to pass a test or take an oath before you breed.:frusty:


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

Great job Marg and what is it with HYBRED dogs all they are is a mutt what gets me is they get as much for them as a prebreed if not more. have you seen the havpugs EEK UGLY alls I can say is WHY WHY WHY!!!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

:dance: You go Marj! :dance:
That woman needs this:fish: and :rant: then :boxing: then :rant: and finally :brick:


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Seriously,:ear: 
don't stupid people like that just make you mad?
how could they possibly think they could sell a mutt with it's toes chewed off?Heck,just finding it a good home will be hard!Can you imagine?I just can not believe how truely stupid some people can be!:frusty: I swear it gets worse every year!uke:


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Doggie Nut said:


> Refresh my memory....did someone on this forum get a pup from this person or inquire about one??


No, Vicki, no one dealt with this seller as far as I know. There was a link that Ryan posted in this thread and some of us checked it out. I just HAD to email to see what this woman had to say. Obviously, she (though it could be a HE for all we know, or some group) sees nothing wrong with the dam's behavior - though I strongly suspect the dam had little to do with the missing toes!

I don't think the Havs she is selling are mixed, but I could be wrong. Either way, you know they aren't likely to the standard and there is no guarantee whatsoever as to their health.

I am going to email a reply. I kind of want to poke a little more.... hehehe :boink:


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## Eileen Marshall (Apr 6, 2007)

good for you Marg, We all need to join in and tell this person we are spreading the word. Any ideas how we can make our point? I know there are a lot of terrible breeders out there. This little guy looks sad.
what is the web site?


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Marj, good for you!!  Silly people are just plain ignorant. Just the other day I was asked if we could breed Oreo with their bichon frise!!!! Initially, I was a bit ticked at the idea, then I couldn't help but chuckle and say that it was NOT possible seeing how Oreo was neutered, and that THAT was my agreement with my breeder in order for me to own him. Of course, they were shocked and "disappointed", but I am so grateful that he is neutered - I don't think I could handle having people bombard me with requests for impregnating their bitches !!! Come to think of it, as much as the couple was a nice couple, I have to admit that after a couple of days mauling that one over, I am quite cheesed off!!!


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

OMG MARJ she reply back you go get her nail her to the floor let the dogs have at her and say oops your toes are missing and take 2 pints of blood and say oops your a bleeder


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

You're too funny, Susan! LMBO I just emailed back with a bunch of questions - asked ever so innocently, of course!  :angel: :evil: 

Helen, I think people consider it a compliment to want to have their dog bred with yours, but don't fully realize what it involves. I'm sure there are some BYB's that think they are doing no harm at all and that it's cute, a good experience for the kids, a nice hobby, etc.... I see ads for pups up on the billboard of a food supply store here all the time! I even considered getting a ShihTzu that way once last summer. Hey, it SAID the pups were healthy and they were ONLY $350 ! 

The pups, the mom, the sire, are all probably just fine and in relatively good health, but there is no screening, no tests done, no genetic history or family tree to verify any of it. It's taking a chance, and though there are plenty of mutts at the shelters that you have no clue what kind of health they'll be in years from now, it doesn't stop people from buying or adopting these types of dogs either. And we wouldn't want people to stop cuz these shelter dogs need homes! sigh...... 

I have a problem with the mills, of course. We all do. Then you have the BYB's who are ruthless about their 'hobby breeding' and do it solely for the money. These are the people I want to give a piece of my mind to! :argue: :rant:

I think this Penny Woodall is not the sharpest tool in the shed. (Gosh, I hope I don't get sued for libel and slander here!!! HA!)


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

LOL naaaaa I dont think you will be sued from posting here LOL Hey I found a toy fanicer club here in the same town I live in.They meet every first weds. I just sent a email to them asking about there club Im taking baby steps , lol


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

marjrc said:


> I see ads for pups up on the billboard of a food supply store here all the time! I even considered getting a ShihTzu that way once last summer. Hey, it SAID the pups were healthy and they were ONLY $350 !
> 
> The pups, the mom, the sire, are all probably just fine and in relatively good health, but there is no screening, no tests done, no genetic history or family tree to verify any of it. It's taking a chance, and though there are plenty of mutts at the shelters that you have no clue what kind of health they'll be in years from now, it doesn't stop people from buying or adopting these types of dogs either. And we wouldn't want people to stop cuz these shelter dogs need homes!


That's why I have such respect for good, ethical breeders. There is just so much involved in breeding happy, heathy puppys and kittens. The showing, the testing, the breeding and of course all the learning that goes in....just makes my head spin.

As far as mutts in shelters, in my experienced, the healthiest dogs (and the longest living) that I've met were mutts. At the dog park where I frequent, one Husky mix named Andy just went over the rainbow at the age of Almost 19!!! My friend Dorothy's mutt named Nemo (a beautiful dog) is almost 13 and you would never guess by looking at him. The way he moves, the way he looks and his gorgeous shiny coat!!! So, you really never know. Of course, these dogs weren't "designer" dog, just accidents I am sure.


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