# I need some prayers for Milo



## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

This is turning out to be a not too terrific weekend and it's only half over. I've just come back from hours at the emergency vet with Milo. Sometime around 6 p.m. he slithered under my chair with the other little ones right on his tail. I heard a lot of clopping around and I looked down and said "what's going on?" I saw Milo slapping frantically at the floor with all fours and when I tried to get him up he was stiff as a board and shaking like a leaf. It was some kind of seizure. If I tell you I thought I'd fall to the floor myself, I'm not kidding. It was the scariest thing I've seen in years.

I kept replaying what had happened over the past couple of hours. They had just come in shortly before from a romp in the yard. I did catch him with something in his mouth but he swallowed it before I could get to him. He seemed fine. I had gotten home from an Open House and had stopped to pick up something to eat on the way home. He had a few pieces of a toasted bialy with butter. I also recently bought a new water filter, a different sort of one that was attached to the faucet but the water, when filtered is diverted through a large filter that sits on the counter and dispenses the water.

Till I found a place (why do these things always happen when the vet isn't in?), I thought I'd have a heart attack. By the time I was ready to leave for the vet, he was better but I was afraid not to go lest it be something that would get him later. They did blood work, most of which was normal. Only a few values were high, his amylase was 1614, with normally range 500-1500. His LIPA was 1998 (normal rance 200-1800) and his Cl, at 122 was the highest of normal range (109-122).

They didn't know what was wrong and suggested leaving him overnight in case he had another seizure. I chose to take him home, agreeing to bring him back if anything goes wrong.

So, please say a little prayer for my little boy that he is okay. The vet seemed to think he was just going to have seizures and I should start him on medication. Not until and unless I know more.


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## LuckyOne (Sep 3, 2009)

Oh my gosh how scary! I will be saying prayers for both of you. Please keep us posted.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I thought he got into some poisonous substance. It's terrifying not knowing. I wonder if either of us will sleep tonight. I'm scared to death.


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## PuraVida (Aug 18, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear what Milo (and you!) are going through. How absolutely scary! I will certainly pray for him, you and the vet that they find what they need to.

You mentioned a new water filter - is it merely a filter or does it change the pH of the water? If it does, I don't know if that would be an issue but perhaps. It is for me which is why I bring it up.

Take care of yourself and special thoughts for Milo.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

As far as I know it's just a filter. I bought it quite awhile ago on HSN. Just never opened it before now. I'm going to be questioning everything now.

Oh, and BTW, the vet said his neurological exam was normal. His liver and kidney function, based upon the tests was all normal.


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## irishnproud2b (Jan 13, 2009)

Oh Geri, I do hope they find what caused the seizure. I'm saying a prayer for Milo right now. Keep us informed.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Thank you so much. I so believe in the power of prayer. One of my problems now, past the terror that it will happen again, is, if I don't know what happened, how do I know what to avoid?


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Oh my...sending my prayers your way....that must be so scary...


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

So sorry to hear about your horrifying experience, Geri! I'll be praying that you and Milo have a quiet, uneventful night, and that you get answers and a resolution to this issue very soon. Let us know when you know! Hugs to you both!


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## PuraVida (Aug 18, 2010)

pjewel said:


> As far as I know it's just a filter. I bought it quite awhile ago on HSN. Just never opened it before now. I'm going to be questioning everything now.
> 
> Oh, and BTW, the vet said his neurological exam was normal. His liver and kidney function, based upon the tests was all normal.


It is probably just a filter but check it just to be sure. Better safe . . .

Good news about the neuro exam. With everything so normal, it is hard to rest easy, I know. If only they could tell you what was wrong.


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

Wow, how terribly scary for you and Milo. I hope they find out what happened and certainly hope it never happens again.


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## LilyMyLove (Jul 11, 2009)

That must have been so frightening Geri, I am so sorry to hear that happened. 

From what I know about water filters, it was most likely not the culprit--unless the filter media had been treated with some sort chemical. Maybe he got a poisonous mushroom in his mouth? 

We will be thinking good thoughts for you guys.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

How horrible for both of you. Lots of positive thoughts coming your way.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks everyone. I'm relaxing on the bed, watching Milo breathe. Everything seems normal. I never thought of the possibility of a poison mushroom. I have had mushrooms in the backyard before. I haven't looked lately. He's never eaten one before, to my knowledge. 

The not knowing is scary.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Geri!!! :grouphug: OMgosh, I know you were freaking out, I can only imagine.

I will say prayers and send lots of healing vibes and healing hugs your way, I do feel some comfort hearing that the vet said the lab work looked fairly normal, and he was acting fine.

I have never seen a dog have a seizure before, but I know you'll follow up on that and keep a close eye.

This time of year you have to be careful with everyone putting all kinds of chemicals on their lawns, especially on the weekend..I can just walk outside and smell all the crap, fertilizer, weed/grass killer, etc., those chemicals can make them sick, too. It could be so many different things 

We'll be thinking about you and I hope everything is okay, keep the lil' guy close tonight :kiss:

Kara


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## LilyMyLove (Jul 11, 2009)

Yeah for some reason when I hear dog-seizure it makes me think of some kind of poison that would affect the nerves in the brain. If he doesnt have a seizure disorder it seems likely he ingested something. Not knowing and just waiting must be so hard. Hang in there..


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Oh, Geri, how terrifying! I hope both of you can sleep, and that it doesn't happen again!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

The vet said something funny to me. He said most people hope it's some sort of poisonous thing they ate, but it's more likely he has a seizure problem. It somehow doesn't seem to fit. He's been totally normal all of his life. Nothing even remotely like this has ever happened before . . . and it happened right after I caught him chewing on something in the backyard.


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## PuraVida (Aug 18, 2010)

pjewel said:


> The vet said something funny to me. He said most people hope it's some sort of poisonous thing they ate, but it's more likely he has a seizure problem. It somehow doesn't seem to fit. He's been totally normal all of his life. Nothing even remotely like this has ever happened before . . . and it happened right after I caught him chewing on something in the backyard.


How old is Milo?

I hope you get some rest tonight. Since it has never happened before and if it was something Milo ingested, he will probably be fine, certainly for tonight.

I've never seen a dog go through a seizure. I'm sure it is terrifying. But you need to try to find a way to relax tonight so Milo can feel that in you. Hold him, comfort him (and you). Put your hands on him and just allow yourself to feel that he is okay. Take a deep breath. You have done everything you can and it doesn't sound like the vet is particularly worried or he never would have let he two of you go home together. Tonight, it is all okay. Tomorrow you can decide if there is anything else you need to do. Besides, I believe you have a birthday to celebrate tomorrow, right?

You and Milo remain in my prayers.


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

Oh my gosh!!!! Poor Milo, and poor you! I really hope he is OK.

I don't have experience with seizures in dogs, but I had a bunny one who had seizures. I'm not sure if different seizures make animals behave in different ways, but my bunny behaved completely different from what you described. 

When he had a seizure, his eyes would roll back in his head, he would fall over to one side, and his whole body would sort of twitch. Not really hard enough that it would have made much of a slapping noise on the floor, though. And when I would pick him up, he would be completely limp. So much so that I would have to support his head so I didn't hurt his tiny neck.

His seizures started when he was about 4-5 months old, and once they started, he only lived about another 3 months or so. I have a hard time understanding how that sort of problem could start at this late stage. I would think signs (of seizures) would have shown up as a puppy.

Please keep us posted!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Very frightening! So sorry to read this. Sounds awfully coincidental that it happened after you saw Milo eating something unknown. We get these small mushrooms in our yard and I have always wondered about them - I pull them out when I see them and dispose of them, but I am always afraid he may get one I didn't see, not knowing whether they are poisonous or not. I certainly hope it is a one-time thing from something that was ingested. And I hope you are able to get some rest tonight - both of you. Keeping you in my thoughts.
Is it possible he picked up someone's medication that was dropped? I have also wondered about insects - whether any of them can be toxic if ingested?? As I have taken some out of Augie's mouth before.


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## mugsy & me (Feb 3, 2008)

scary stuff, hope all is well today.

my border collie used to get the occasional seizure...the first time was scary but mostly she was fine afterwards.

i'm keeping a good thought for you both.


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

OMG So scary. I hope Milo is OK and it doesn't happen again.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Gosh Geri - how frightening for you and Milo! I hope you were able to get some sleep last night, although I bet you slept with one eye open and on Milo. I don't think that the mushrooms that grow on our lawns here in Jersey are poisonous. But that doesn't mean that he didn't eat a piece of animal what was poisoned with something. I sure hope that this was an isolated incident and not a lifelong problem. 
Please let us know how he is doing!!
I would also get him in to see YOUR vet this week - I am sure hearing the opinion from our own vet will make you feel a little better.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Geri, that's scary! I'm glad he seems back to normal, but I'd be like you...driving myself crazy with worry and wondering what on earth could have caused it! Keep us posted...


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## Mom2Izzo (Jul 1, 2009)

Poor Milo. Poor YOU! I wouldn't have slept last night- bet you didn't either. I would assume that whatever he ate was the culprit. Just keep a close watch on your boy. I will say a prayer for him that he's ok. Please keep us posted and I hope you are able to enjoy Miss Ruby's 1st birthday today.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

pjewel said:


> Thanks everyone. I'm relaxing on the bed, watching Milo breathe. Everything seems normal. I never thought of the possibility of a poison mushroom. I have had mushrooms in the backyard before. I haven't looked lately. He's never eaten one before, to my knowledge.
> 
> The not knowing is scary.


I think if he had gotten into something toxic, they would have seen signs of it on his blood panel. I wouldn't worry TOO much about that one.

In the mean time, we're adding our share to the "Milo Prayers!!!"


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

pjewel said:


> The vet said something funny to me. He said most people hope it's some sort of poisonous thing they ate, but it's more likely he has a seizure problem. It somehow doesn't seem to fit. He's been totally normal all of his life. Nothing even remotely like this has ever happened before . . . and it happened right after I caught him chewing on something in the backyard.


Dogs CAN develop seizure disorders at any time in life, just like people. The range of severity varies greatly too. Some dogs with seizures have them very rarely, while for others, without meds, it can be a daily (or more often) problem.

I guess my point is, I wouldn't get TOO worked up, even if it IS a seizure disorder until/unless you see how severe it is. I think I'd wait until it happened a second time before I tried my dog on meds though. Seizure meds are powerful.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

kudo2u said:


> His seizures started when he was about 4-5 months old, and once they started, he only lived about another 3 months or so. I have a hard time understanding how that sort of problem could start at this late stage. I would think signs (of seizures) would have shown up as a puppy.
> 
> Please keep us posted!


Not necessarily. They can show up at any age. And controlled medically, dogs with seizure disorders can often live long, happy lives.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Thank you everybody for your prayers and good thoughts. I refused to let Milo out again last night. I wanted to be there with him and I couldn't see in the dark. He seemed totally fine the rest of the night. I held him in my arms and even when he fell asleep I had my arm around him for a long time.

This morning he seems totally normal. I went out with them and he was running all over the yard at one point. My biggest problem is, I can't see anything in the yard for all the leaves on the ground. This is all so frightening.

Years ago I had a poodle who had seizures. The first time it happened I thought he was dying, but it was totally different than this. He would fall on his side, foam and the mouth, eyes glazed, tongue hanging out. Milo went splat, on his belly, all four legs splayed outward and clopping on the floor as he shook violently, unable to get up. I don't know why I keep feeling, deep in my soul that he ingested something. Could I be wrong? Sure. 

As I sit here, he's eating his breakfast as if nothing happened. I don't think he could have found any medication. The only thing I take is for high blood pressure and the vet said his pressure was 165 and normal. One of the scariest parts of last night was being alone for all of it. I tried calling a few people to go with me to the vet. Nobody was available. In the end, it might have been good for Milo because I kept him in the front passenger seat (something I never do) because I wanted to watch him. It was a bit of a drive to the place. I kept talking to him soothingly all the way there and he seemed totally relaxed for the trip. I, OTOH, was/am a basket case.


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## Lilly'sMom (Jan 28, 2010)

I am praying that this was a one time thing and that it will never happen again, that Milo will be completely healed from whatever caused this.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

I hope and pray dear little Milo is totally fine and it was just a one off unexplained experience, or on the other hand not trying to make light of it, he was just trying to steel Miss Ruby Tuesday's thunder around her birthday!


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

*((((((((Milo)))))))))*


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

Oh Geri, How scary for you. I hope Milo is doing fine now and that this doesn't happen again. Our thoughts a prayers are with you as well. :hug:


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

(((hugs))) I hope it is something simple and easily identifiable. DON'T try searching stuff on the internet. You will just end up scaring yourself, thinking that he has some disease that only parrots can get. Our imaginations are our worse enemies.

Good luck and best wishes to Milo and you.


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## ls-indy (Apr 10, 2008)

Hoping Milo is okay. I can only imagine how frightened you must have been! This will sound REALLY STUPID - but you said he "slithered" under your chair.... Is there anyway he could have bumped his spinal cord and it caused spastic symptoms? I don't even know if it is possible or not - but you know how it feels when you bump your elbow and your whole arm goes limp for a minute or so.....


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Hope Milo is doing well.

(at work)I have seen quite a few dogs have seizures and held them while they had them. It is scary at first. They can develop at any age. Some are once in a great while,some many times a day or even unstoppable in the most severe case. <--had this happen and it was an awful thing to be involved with and later have the dog put down. Anyway-Geri-hope you are doing well and Milo too. Try not to worry too much.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

It's so hard not to worry . . . and it could not have happened at a worse time in my life (as if there's any good time). So far, so good today. I have to go to work. I'll check in later.


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## SnickersDad (Apr 9, 2010)

Add our prayers and well wishes to the list. After Snoopys episode a week or so ago I fully realize just how scary these unexpected events can be.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Geri,
Sending prayers and hoping that all is well with Milo and that it doesn't happen again. 
My "granddog" started having seizures when she was @ 4 years old. Unknown reason. Ginnie has them rarely and they don't seem to have any ill effects on her. My son doesn't even want to give her medication because of the side effects and she does very well.

Hugs,


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Oh Geri, I hope that was Milo's first and last seizure! I know that must have been terrifying for you. I'll keep the little fellow in my prayers that this is just an isolated incident.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Was the vet you saw your regular vet? If not, when is Milo's next appointment? I need to know. I am a champion worrier.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Oh Geri,

I am so sorry this happened to Milo and you. Are you going to take him to your regular vet on Monday?


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I hope today is a calm, drama-less day and Milo is still on the mend.

Did you schedule a follow up or are they running more tests to see if it is a seizure disorder?

Kara


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Oh Geri, I am so sorry to read this. But happy to hear that so far it was a one time thing. I have you both in my prayers that this was just a fluke and will never happen again.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Geri, you poor thing. First Ms. Thang's exploits and now Milo. You must have been terrified. I know I would have been. My son's cat developed seizures a few months ago. She had one and they were total wrecks never having seen this before. Took her to the vet and she checked out fine. A few months later, she had another one, and she's still fine. Sounds like Milo is doing much better today. Hope you are too.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Can anyone tell me how to spell v-a-c-a-t-i-o-n. Boy do I need one and there's none anywhere on my radar screen.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ls-indy said:


> Hoping Milo is okay. I can only imagine how frightened you must have been! This will sound REALLY STUPID - but you said he "slithered" under your chair.... Is there anyway he could have bumped his spinal cord and it caused spastic symptoms? I don't even know if it is possible or not - but you know how it feels when you bump your elbow and your whole arm goes limp for a minute or so.....


That was one thing I was wondering... whether it could have been some how spine related rather than a seizure. I know long backed dogs can have disk problems. I know Havs aren't THAT long backed, but still...


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

His movements were spastic. As his body shook, his extremities were slapping the floor. Not sure if that was what was happening to him or whether it was his terror and trying to get himself up. Today's he's behaving as if nothing ever happened.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Hope you've seen the last of whatever this was. Hugs and woofs Dave and Molly. HYHYHT?


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I think Pam is right - dont go onto the internet. 
Hope tonight goes well!!


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

sending prayers to you and Milo.


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## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

Hugs to you and Milo. I can't imagine how scared you were.

I hope you get some answers and this was an isolated incident.


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

It's likely Milo swallowed something while he was outside. Although the affects are scary, if he is behaving normally whatever it was has likely passed through his system and he'll be fine tomorrow.

I had something similar happen with Eli many weeks ago. He swallowed an unknown substance while on a walk. They're so quick sometimes they have something in their mouths and swallowed before we can even get to them. Anyway, he was sick for the day (unresponsive and freely urinating) and he spent the evening with the vet. Luckily it also passed through his system and he was fine by morning.

Hugs and kissed to Milo!


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## MaggieMay (Sep 8, 2010)

Saying a prayer for Milo!!Poor little guy hope that doesn't happen again.


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## Cailleach (Jan 30, 2010)

Sorry both of you had to endure the seizure. Sending good energy and hope it's the last of a very scary experience. I had a Pomeranian that had seizures in the mornings if he didn't eat as soon as he got up but he was ancient at the time.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Oh Geri!!!!!! Poor you and little Milo! I have been away so I am just seeing this. Hope this is a one time problem. Hugs. Just a note my Lhasa and my Shih Tzu both had IVD. Boo Boo blew a disc 2 summers ago and was diagnosed with grad 2 with parital paralysis (he has recovered for the most part and walks), the disc problems do look like a seizure...but they don't stop...they keep flipping around and sometimes passout or they are unrespondsive. I hope it is just a one time thing Milo, whatever it was. I am so sorry you went through this alone. Thinking of you and hopeing for the best.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

motherslittlehelper said:


> Sounds awfully coincidental that it happened after you saw Milo eating something unknown.
> .


That's where my thoughts went too. Geri we're thinking of you and Milo. :hug:


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## ls-indy (Apr 10, 2008)

Just checking back on Milo..... My daughter has an American Eskimo rescue that's about 5 years old. She started having seizures about 1-1/2 years ago. I know she does take meds for it - and has prescription dog food (I don't know if thats for another unrelated problem or not....) but Hope does well and is the alpha dog of their 3.

I hope everything is going well and Milo is feeling better....


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks again everyone. I really connected it with whatever he was chewing outside. Thank God and thanks to all your prayers, Milo is back to his old self. It felt too coincidental to me that the sequence of events had him eating whatever and within a half hour he had a seizure. I'm praying it never happens again. For now, all's quiet on the eastern front. Fingers crossed it stays that way.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Geri, it does seem coincidental. Did you look out in the yard. Anything unusual . No fertilizers mushrooms or such.?? What types of trees or shrubs.?


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I did look Dave but didn't see anything. Whatever he was eating was right near the house. It was nowhere near any plants or shrubs and I have no new vegetation in my yard. I didn't see any mushrooms but I have gotten them sometimes in the past. I have no idea what it was.

It's funny, he seems back to normal, other than wanting to be right next to, or on top of me much more. A little while ago he fell asleep on my chest. He just lay there till Ms. Tish managed to get into something again and I had to get it away from her.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Gosh, I hope the little man is ok. I'm praying he does not have another episode. Kisses and hugs from Milo from his buds!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I just thought of something else. I was eating a buttered bialy just before he had the seizure. I had bought it at a bagel store on my way home. They slathered butter on it. I gave each of them two small bites. Could that have done anything?


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

hmm... what did you have on your bialy? I know that onions and garlics are bad for dogs but I thought that would give more of a food poisoning reaction - vomitting and such.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

pjewel said:


> I just thought of something else. I was eating a buttered bialy just before he had the seizure. I had bought it at a bagel store on my way home. They slathered butter on it. I gave each of them two small bites. Could that have done anything?


Not sure, they can have onion in them right. ? I know onions are very bad, here's something to look at ,even though we shouldn't worry and searching the web can be stupid at times. Check this out though , I suppose it's a possibility. Definitely to be safe, I wouldn't give it again. http://www.all-about-hypertension.c...g-onion-ingredients-causing-my-dogs-seizures/


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

davetgabby said:


> Not sure, they can have onion in them right. ? I know onions are very bad, here's something to look at ,even though we shouldn't worry and searching the web can be stupid at times. Check this out though , I suppose it's a possibility. Definitely to be safe, I wouldn't give it again. http://www.all-about-hypertension.c...g-onion-ingredients-causing-my-dogs-seizures/


OMG, I never thought of that. It's been years since I've had one. I just happened to stop at the bagel place and bought a small cup of tuna. Looking for something less deadly than a bagel, I picked the bialy. They do have tiny little onions, especially in the very center of the bottom. Wouldn't it be terrible if, in trying to give them a treat, I hurt him? I'd never forgive myself.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hey , we all give stuff. Still this is just a possibility. Talk with a vet . But do be careful ,especially with human food. When you look at our food, so many items have onion ,or onion powder in it. Some dogs might be able to handle onion to a degree and others have an extreme reaction. Same with chocolate. My daughters dog ate a whole bag of chocolate bars and only had the ****s. But I've also heard of cases where a bigger dog ate just one ,and nearly died.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

pjewel said:


> I just thought of something else. I was eating a buttered bialy just before he had the seizure. I had bought it at a bagel store on my way home. They slathered butter on it. I gave each of them two small bites. Could that have done anything?


A bialy is similar to a bagel, in that it is a round, chewy roll. But it is unlike a bagel in three important ways: One, it does not have a hole in the middle, but a depression; two, bialys never became popular outside of New York City; and three, bagels are boiled and bialys are baked. The indentation in the middle of the dough is filled with *onion*
Oliver was extremely sick from a small piece of onion.We almost lost him. Thankfully we got him to the Vet ASAP. The Vet asked me if he had any seizures as that could occur as well if the dog has onions


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks for that Sally. This is beginnning to smell like onion to me.?


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## MaggieMay (Sep 8, 2010)

Wow that is scary!!! Glad to hear he is doing better. I didn't realize about the onion, I gave Maggie a few tiny pieces of meatball in her food bow with her kibble. She had diarrehea the day after. My girlfriend told me about the onion after. Last time I'll give her one of my home made meatballs. She sure did love it though!!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I think you're right. I think, in my effort to make them happy, I almost killed my sweet little man. I must have given him that little center piece without thinking. In a way it's better though. At least I don't have to look at everything outside as a possible culprit.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Hey Geri, if this is indeed the culprit, at least you know to watch out for it. We all ,sometimes push our luck by giving them our foods. I know we're guilty of it. I just gave my wife hell today as I found yet another of her pills on the floor. Live and learn.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

FYI----

Onions are toxic to dogs. The toxicity is dose dependent, so the bigger the animal, the more onion need be consumed to cause a toxicity. Onion toxicity causes a Heinz body anemia. Heinz bodies are small bubble-like projections which protrude from a red blood cell and can be seen when the cells are stained. This "bubble" is a weak spot in the red blood cell and, therefore, the cell has a decreased life-span and ruptures prematurely.
If numerous red cells are affected and rupture, anemia can result. It is a form of hemolytic anemia. Onions are only one of the substances which can cause Heinz body anemia. Other substances such as Acetominophen (Tylenol) and benzocaine-containing topical preparations can also cause Heinz body anemia in the dog.

The toxic effect of the onions are the same whether the product is raw, cooked or dehydrated. The hemolytic episode usually occurs several days after onion ingestion (lowest hematocrit around day 5 post ingestion). Daily feeding of onions could have a cumulative effect due to ongoing formation of Heinz bodies versus a single exposure with a wide gap until the next exposure, allowing the bone marrow time to regenerate the prematurely destroyed red cells.

The cat is even more susceptible. Recently, Gerber began to add onion powder to all its meat baby foods. They are labeled as "better tasting". Since baby food is often used in sick dogs and cats that are not eating (to stimulate their appetites), there was concern that the onion powder would cause a Heinz body anemia in these cats. Within a week or two of the change, there were numerous reports of Heinz body anemia in dogs receiving Gerber baby food in their diets.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I was feeling relatively secure now since his blood work was mostly normal. Now I'm worried that he'll have a problem days from now. His hematocrit now was good.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Yeah, talk with your vet and tell him what you think may be the cause.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Hi, 
I'm so sorry millo got so sick. The same thing happened to my friends puppy about two weeks ago. My friend left for a short time and her husband let the puppy out of his crate he let him out side and didn't watch him much. The vet was worried that it might be parvo because he was only fifteen weeks old. He was better by the time he got to the vets. She still has no Idea what happened. The grass had just been fertalized and they have mushrooms in the yard. A week later the pup got in to some decon poisoning in the barn she had no Idea her husband had put it out luckley she caught him before he ate it. After hearing that I thought that is what happened the day he got so sick. I hope Millo is better and you too.
Suzi


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Geri,
I am so glad Milo is O.K.!!! and I am glad everyone has helped you figure out what probably made him sick. 

It is a reminder to all of us that give those treats...to think about what we are giving them. I know it will remind me to be more careful...I am always giving treats.


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## Phoebs (May 28, 2009)

Personally, I think the onion sounds like too easy an "out", and you should talk to your vet and probably keep looking for the culprit. On quick web search, it was hard to find an LD50 (dose at which half animals die) for onion- just vague references that relatively large amounts were needed for hemolytic anemia (on the order of a cup or more). This is in contrast to chocolate (it's the dark stuff to worry most about, milk chocolate may have little enough to let you skirt by with only GI symptoms), or xyletol, which is well documented to be very lethal at very small doses. I'd bet you only gave him a gram or so of onion in that bite of biali. The main thing is that the bloodwork should have shown up pretty clearly if he had a seizure from anemia, and you didn't see that. Presumably, the vet also took his BP (they do that, don't they?). However, it does look like Havs might be very sensitive to onions in terms of GI symptoms- I know my Phoebe is very susceptible to getting the runs, and I prefer to boil her some chicken if she's having human food. If we let her have juice from steak, we're walking a fine line on messy business, and we don't offer practically anything else based on experience! Let us know what your Dr says about whether onions are a likely source, since that would indicate that Havs generally might be very sensitive to onions. Hope he stays well, and that you never have such a scare again. 
Now I thought of it, there was no chance he got hold of a piece of sugar free gum or such? I think xyletol leads to desperately low blood sugar, and I believe that this is a well-documented cause seizures. Could he have skirted the worst from a xyletol ingestion? For a 10 lb dog, the LD50 for xyletol is approximately the size of one small piece of sugarless gum.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Interesting, I never would've thought a wee piece of onion flavored bread could reap so much havoc. Gucci is pretty picky with foods and doesn't like most processed foods..but she LOVES butter....even when I eat it she'll run her nose a million miles a minute trying to take it all in..lol I suppose she would eat an onion if there was enough butter on it..

But if you gave it to all 3 of them, and the other 2 were pretty normal?

Would Milo eat a bug or bee...or wasp? 

I don't know if you'll ever have answers to this mystery, but I hope it never happens again!

Kara


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Phoebs said:


> Personally, I think the onion sounds like too easy an "out", and you should talk to your vet and probably keep looking for the culprit. On quick web search, it was hard to find an LD50 (dose at which half animals die) for onion- just vague references that relatively large amounts were needed for hemolytic anemia (on the order of a cup or more). This is in contrast to chocolate (it's the dark stuff to worry most about, milk chocolate may have little enough to let you skirt by with only GI symptoms), or xyletol, which is well documented to be very lethal at very small doses. I'd bet you only gave him a gram or so of onion in that bite of biali. The main thing is that the bloodwork should have shown up pretty clearly if he had a seizure from anemia, and you didn't see that. Presumably, the vet also took his BP (they do that, don't they?). However, it does look like Havs might be very sensitive to onions in terms of GI symptoms- I know my Phoebe is very susceptible to getting the runs, and I prefer to boil her some chicken if she's having human food. If we let her have juice from steak, we're walking a fine line on messy business, and we don't offer practically anything else based on experience! Let us know what your Dr says about whether onions are a likely source, since that would indicate that Havs generally might be very sensitive to onions. Hope he stays well, and that you never have such a scare again.
> Now I thought of it, there was no chance he got hold of a piece of sugar free gum or such? I think xyletol leads to desperately low blood sugar, and I believe that this is a well-documented cause seizures. Could he have skirted the worst from a xyletol ingestion? For a 10 lb dog, the LD50 for xyletol is approximately the size of one small piece of sugarless gum.


For sure, a talk with the vet is in order. Yeah , reading articles on the web is always risky when trying to find accurate info. But as an example with chocolate. Yes dark chocolate heavy in Coaco is more lethal than milk chocolate, but like I mentioned I personally heard of a lady who's Lab nearly died from eating one OhHenry chocolate bar.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

My initial thought is that it wasn't the bialy (I had to look that one up - never heard of them) either as the reaction was too fast, and from reading here, the reaction to onion takes a few days? Along with the fact that your other dogs were OK, although I suppose he could be more susceptible or have gotten more, but I still think the reaction would have been too quick. Do you have any pesticides around the perimeter of your house - for ants, mice, ? I had wondered about bees, wasps, spiders, etc. too, that he may have ingested. In doing a bit of reading, they say no, that the venom is a protein and that the stomach acids break it down. But who is to say one couldn't sting on the way down. But I am not a vet, so....just my thoughts. It may be that you never discover what happened. I am just hoping, along with everyone else, that this was a one-time occurrence, never to recur.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I took some very good advice I think from people I trust here and didn't look on the internet. I didn't want to scare mysef to death. So far, it's as if nothing happened (poo poo poo). It did happen almost right after he ate the bialy. I don't know.

No pesticides or anything else I could see. It's true. I may never know and I pray to God I never have a need to know. I want my baby to die of old age . . . very, very old age.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Geri, I am just so glad to know that Milo has had no more symptoms. To be honest the first thing I envisioned was that gooey center of a bialy filled with onions... but I did not mention because there is no reason to beat yourself up. I have heard and read, and heard and read some more that onions are extremely toxic to dogs. But then I have had vets tell me that like garlic it is a matter of quantity. Many feed their dogs raw garlic gloves to prevent fleas. 

And to make you feel even better, I got some treats the other day (from Bravo -a reputable raw company) that on closer inspection had onion and garlic powder in them. I of course read the recent posts on here and threw them out. But please, don't beat yourself up. Like with humans, sometimes weird stuff happens that you will never figure out or understand. but go give that boy a hug!


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

motherslittlehelper said:


> My initial thought is that it wasn't the bialy (I had to look that one up - never heard of them) either *as the reaction was too fast, and from reading here, the reaction to onion takes a few days?** Along with the fact that your other dogs were OK, although I suppose he could be more susceptible or have gotten more, but I still think the reaction would have been too quick. Do you have any pesticides around the perimeter of your house - for ants, mice, ? I had wondered about bees, wasps, spiders, etc. too, that he may have ingested. In doing a bit of reading, they say no, that the venom is a protein and that the stomach acids break it down. But who is to say one couldn't sting on the way down. But I am not a vet, so....just my thoughts. It may be that you never discover what happened. I am just hoping, along with everyone else, that this was a one-time occurrence, never to recur.


* Not all the time----Oliver's was within 24 hours. ( I don't remember exactly but I think within 12 hours)
(((Hugs and belly rubs to Milo!)))


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm grateful that he's okay. As of the moment, he seems back to normal. I still keep a closer eye on him but I think he's okay. Fingers and toes crossed. But boy will I be careful from now on.

It just occurred to me, we should have a separate thread on here for all the newbies (and some of the older senile of us) with a list of all the foods or actually anything toxic to our dogs. So many of the things are not necessarily obvious.


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## kudo2u (Mar 7, 2009)

So glad to hear Milo is showing no further signs. Hopefully this will be the one and ONLY instance!!!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

pjewel said:


> It just occurred to me, we should have a separate thread on here for all the newbies (and some of the older senile of us) with a list of all the foods or actually anything toxic to our dogs. So many of the things are not necessarily obvious.


I would *LOVE* that! Maybe have it as a Sticky at the top of the Health forum.

My latest "Is that bad for him?" question is sunflower seeds and shells. Jack thinks the debris under the bird feeders is very cool.


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

Just saw this one. I fed Gizmo something with onion in it and freaked out when I found out it was toxic. I called the ASPCA Poision Line and they told me the tests to do to see if the onions were going to cause more issues. They also said that it makes the pee a pinkish tint. If it's been a few days and he is peeing normally then he is probably okay. They said after a little time as long as no more onion is givin the levels of whatever the issue was would restore themselves. If you do see pinkish pee then call them and they will tell you the special tests he would need. At the time my vet said since there was no pink and it was such a small amount to just keep an eye on it and don't give her anymore. 

I tend to be on the side of it was too coincidental to have never happened before and happened now after two possible things he ate, I think he will be okay 

Praying for Milo.


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

morriscsps said:


> I would *LOVE* that! Maybe have it as a Sticky at the top of the Health forum.
> 
> My latest "Is that bad for him?" question is sunflower seeds and shells. Jack thinks the debris under the bird feeders is very cool.


A good thing I found out while trying to buy houseplants is if you call the ASPCA Poison line with a question like that they will answer it free. If you need advice on what to do if it was ingested then they charge you.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks for the prayers. I didn't know about the free aspect of poison control. I did know about the paid because when Milo first came to me he ate some dessicant from a pill bottle and I freaked. It took about $55 or so to find out it was no problem.


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

When I called I said I was at the store and wanted to buy the plant and would I have to pay to find out if it was poison to her and they said no and asked a vet. I tried their website first but the type of Orchid I was looking at wasn't on the list. It costed me $65.00 when she ate the onion, worth every penny though when they said she should be fine


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

A lot better than what Milo's onion incident cost me.


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