# Breeder Won't Let Me Visit!



## ElaineK (Nov 10, 2006)

Ok, so now I've addressed the issue of buying a second puppy and found one I might like. Have visted with the breeder but when I said I wanted to come down tomorrow to see the dog and maybe other dogs she has she became very agaited with me and said she would not allow anyone to come to her home. Supposely she had a bad "experience" with someone and will bring the dog to meet me half way. I explained that I really would like to see the parents of this pup and some of the other males she has listed and was told that she sold one of them and probably will have the other sold. Now I am very leary of this situation. Think I should just walk away from it. What do you all think??


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I would walk away personally. Any breeder should welcome you into their home, IMHO. The fact that she won't let you see the parents or the other pups would worry me. Did she elaborate on what that "bad experience" was? I can't think of any reason as to why she wouldn't let you come to see the dog unless it was because she had something to hide.


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## RedHeadedGator (Oct 4, 2006)

Wow. If they won't let you visit or see the parents, I would not walk away, I would run! There are so many excellent breeders out there that would more than welcome you into their homes and would want you to see the sire and the dam.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

That seems like a huge red flag. 

I do remember one breeder on the big Hav Yahoo list that said she never let people visit the pups in her home. I don't know why. Everything we read tells us to visit the pups in their home environment and see the sire and dam. 

There are so many breeders who WILL let you come visit their puppies that if I were you I'd keep looking till I found one.

Susan


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Yes, i agree. I would not walk, i would run also.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

When I was searching for my puppy I fell in love with an adorable little girl and came very close to getting her though red flags were waving in the breeze from the get go. I'm so happy I ran from the situation and waited for my little angel. I join the others and say, "run."


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Good thing you asked!!!! I guess most people don't. We always encourage visits.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

Yes I would run! I also would assume there is probably something she is hiding.
You all are welcome to my house anytime! Party!!:whoo:


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Smells fishy to me, I would want to meet the parents of my pup and see what type of enviroment they live in.

Katie's having a party?? Count me in.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I think I would RUN..........

Katie- we are on our way !:jugglearty time!:juggle:


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Elaine--you know the answer to that question. You can see those red flags waving. There is no good reason that I can think of that she would not want you to see the house where the puppies are raised. 

Is the phone number listed? Try doing a google search on that number to see if you can get the address and then drive by yourself if you still have any interest at all.


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## ChristineL (Aug 31, 2007)

I think you should ask to see the parents. Big red flag here. It sounds like they have something to hide. You should also be able to see the other puppies in the litter to see how yours is in comparison to the others, and see what kind of environment the breeder is raising them in.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I see a red flag, but I wouldn't necessarily blow her off just for that reason alone. There are plenty of people who don't like visitors in their home and that is their perogative. There can be a variety of reasons for that. A (Chihuahua?) breeder was murdered about two years ago when she invited a puppy buyer over and her husband wasn't home. You just never know. I prefer for people to come to my home and let the dogs (the dam as well as others) meet them and let the person get comfortable in my home visiting the pups, but I realize that not everyone is like that.

Have you asked about seeing the health testing? Have you gotten information on both parents so you can look them up online? If you can't get that info, and you can't go to her home, that combo together is plenty enough for me to suggest that you not even bother with her.


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## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

I would drive by and see what I could ask neighbors if they happen to be outside. It sounds like she is not on the up and up. The breeder my Lilly came from wouldn't let my parents see her dam or sire dad bought her anyway and guess what she runs a puppy mill. So check her out then check some more. You do not know what you are going to get into other wise.


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## SHOWDOWN (Dec 17, 2006)

YES RUN AWAY


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Elaine--is this the puppy with the overbite? I am just wondering if you have a 2nd red flag?


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Hi Elaine, 

It does sound fishy, but I would ask again and explain that you don't understand what the problem could be. 

Ricky's breeder lives 3 hrs. away so I was reluctant to drive there and back twice within 2-3 weeks, though I did ask if I could anyway, just to see the pups and dam. I was told 'sure', though the breeder wanted us to wait until their first set of vaccines because otherwise, we could only look at them from far and not be allowed into the house. She was very strict about avoiding any potential contamination so I respected that. It meant, though, that we would go there one w/e and back, only to return the following w/e to actually pick Ricky up. I "took a chance" and we only went the one and final time. 

Like Kimberly says, though, if there are other red flags, it's just too much to be a personal choice of avoiding future owners to come visit. "Meeting halfway" isn't usually a good sign unless you are very sure about everything else! 

Good luck and do let us know, please. I'm sure this happens to many potential Hav buyers.


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## ElaineK (Nov 10, 2006)

So appreciative to everyone for your input. I can only picture the situation I would find here. This breeder lives in a very rural area of Oklahoma and does not seem to know much about this breed.Since she quickly insinuated that her other puppies were or likely would be sold so I could not see them, I've determined that she must not be very proud of their enviroment. If she calls me back I will just explain that I'm not comfortable buying a puppie without seeing the sire and dam or other pups from the same litter. If she pursues, I will ask about the parents and if I can look them up, as suggested. We don't have a lot of breeders in this state, I purchased my Barney from a breeder in Texas and did the meet thing half way. Was never given the info to register Barney and was not told about his lack of pigmentation at the time. Thus, I am very leary and don't want to make mistakes again. Thanks all. Will let you know how this turns out.....BTW, I do have a beautiful and loving Hav and wouldn't send him back for anything...


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## pizno (May 8, 2007)

I remember when we visited our breeder to look at pups, when Marvin was just 4 weeks, they said that people visited them all the time. This seems the normal thing to do. It certainly makes you wonder what there is to hide! Before you rule them out entirely, though, do they check out in other ways, i.e do all the necessary testing? Can you talk to others who have bought from them and find out what their experiences were?

Carol


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## pizno (May 8, 2007)

One more thought............when we were looking for a puppy, I heard of someone who got one from a place a few hours north of here. They had one boy left, so I called to check it out. Well, turns out - the woman who was selling him was not even the breeder. She knew the breeder, and was helping him out by selling on the internet. They didn't do any of the testing, yet still wanted $1000 for the pup. I questioned the lack of testing and she said something like whether it's healthy or not is 'God's Will'. Brother - I dropped that one in a second! I am not aware of any reputable breeders in our state at all, so we went out of state, but not so far that we couldn't go visit and then pick him up.

Good luck! It sounds like you have a 'sense' that this isn't the right situation.

Carol


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I have to say I would not be comfortable if I did not see where the pups were raised. So many breeders want to see where the pups are going, its only fair to see where the pups come from. 

OK has a ton of puppy mills just so you know. Its normal to be concerned. There are some good breeders in Texas, Ok and the south, if you need some help, you can pm me. Go with your gut and walk away. There is another dog out there for you. No rush. Find your breeder first, even if they dont have puppies on the ground, then wait for a puppy. Its worth it!

Melissa


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

*I agree....*



Havtahava said:


> I see a red flag, but I wouldn't necessarily blow her off just for that reason alone. There are plenty of people who don't like visitors in their home and that is their perogative. There can be a variety of reasons for that. A (Chihuahua?) breeder was murdered about two years ago when she invited a puppy buyer over and her husband wasn't home. You just never know. I prefer for people to come to my home and let the dogs (the dam as well as others) meet them and let the person get comfortable in my home visiting the pups, but I realize that not everyone is like that.
> 
> Have you asked about seeing the health testing? Have you gotten information on both parents so you can look them up online? If you can't get that info, and you can't go to her home, that combo together is plenty enough for me to suggest that you not even bother with her.


I agree with Kimberly 100%. Nicely stated Kimberly. I don't let just everyone come to my home. I want to be sure they are legitimate, or at least seem to be before they come here. There are too many crazy people in this world. Remember the breeder that was on the national news in the San Diego area I think it was, who had 2 men come over to look at puppies to buy, and stole the entire litter at gun point?

But, as Kimberly stated, is this breeder isn't showing nor doing any health testing, then run, don't walk.


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

You are not the first on this forum to have a negative experience with a breeder from Oklahoma. At this time I can not remember the first, but i will keep trying to find it.


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

I found scary stuff out there puppy shopping, I mean really scary stuff....I can't remember where this location was but they had cute puppies on line and I called and talked to the lady and it sound like she was smoking while we spoke on the phone and she couldn't find a copy of the parent's pedigree!:jaw: and I asked about health testing and she said "all my dogs are checked by a vet once a year." checked or tested??? Anyway we went around and around....waste of my time. Her website went off line just a few days after I had talked to her and has not been back up. 

The last puppy questionaire I filled out, the breeder asked if she could come to my home and I said "YES" and I will go to the breeders home and this is the way it should be. 

The breeders get alot of information on their puppy questionaire, they have time to check out prospective buyers before they come to their house.

As a buyer this is how I want to do business, as I breeder I could understand your hesitation to let strangers into your home.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

That is a HUGE red flag to me. Meeting you halfway? On the defensive?

I understand some breeders are fearful of people in their home, but well....alot of people want to see the puppies and parents. Most of the breeders I dealt with when I was looking encouraged visits.

Heck, I bought my girl out of state (Far from me) but I sent over my father in law to their house to investigate for me! lol ound: Because he lived in the same area. I wanted him to go meet them and check it out before I booked the trip, and I was just going off phone calls and emails/pictures. I'm glad I did...she kept my FIL over there for 2hours having coffee and cake and playing with the dogs! lol, what a sport! He doesn't even "like" dogs...but he likes Gucchi 

I mean, that's like a salesman saying they don't like to "sale", or a cook that doesn't like to slice veggies, some things you just have to do even though you don't like it. If someone was worried about being murdered, they could hire an off duty cop to come over during the visits. There are ways to accomadate the buyers.

And I encourage you to PM Melissa Miller up a few posts, she is in Dallas and knows the breeders around the state/surrounding areas 

Kara


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Have been away for day or so, so first want to say - congrats. on your new puppy search. I understand that a breeder might be uncomfortable having stangers come to their home, but may you could suggest that she have a guy around, or something that would make her feel more comfortable. If I could not see the parents of the pups, or especially where they live, I dont think I would go thru with it!! My breeder does not allow any visits until the pups have their 6 week shots, but that is a health issue, so understandable, but she lets you visit after that. And her parents pedigreesf are listed on her website. I think you should see if you could find a new breeder. - sounds too fishy to me!!
Laurie


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Elaine, I think everyone here has pretty much summed it up. That being said, like you I got my first Jasper from a breeder who sent up every single red flag in the book--- couldn't meet the puppies or mother before 8 wks when I was picking him up, no registration (she said she had been burned by buyers who whited out limited and then sent to AKC and breed off her line, ) she wanted cash.... But I had fallen in love with the thought of Jasper and I couldn't find another breeder within driving distance who would sell to me because I worked 3 days a week... At the time I hated the idea of shipping a little pup in the belly of the plane. When we got there, we did get to meet the parents but never saw where the pups were kept, which makes me think a kennel. 

Jasper is a wonderful dog who we adore to pieces, he is very healthy (she had a 5 year health guarantee) although lacks confidence that perhaps better and earlier socialization could have given him. But we are working on it. We notice the difference with our second dog Cash who we actually did have shipped. But I got daily e-mails with photos and stories about Cash and several Hour of so long conversations with the breeder who I adored. Cash was a little shaken when we he got off the plain and then threw up in the car. But the minute he was home he owned the place (in fact we thought he had a real Alpha personality at first (he does not) because he was just being a puppy and we were so used to Jasper who is soooo melllow) 

Point I guess is "Run." But as you know from your first, good dogs come from not so good places... But these little fur babies have the potential to be absolutely amazing and I think that amazingness comes from good breeding and good early socialization


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I can understand caution about having strangers in one's home but I would think that there are ways to ensure safety as much as possible, like having a neighbor come over at the same time. Or, as Kathy said, get a really good feel for someone before inviting them to your home. Heck, even meet them in your front yard, with the dogs in an ex-pen, while the neighbors are out mowing the grass. Or, meet at a friend's home or something.
I suppose my biggest red flag in the original message was that the breeder got agitated with you when all you did was ask to come and see the parents. Why get agitated? 

Susan


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

I'm glad I read this post because I have been on the fence about this situation for a while now. Im the type of person that if it's going to happen it seems to happen to me. I dont like people to come over at all if they are just shopping around. It's waaayyy to dangerous and I have my two small children to think about as well. If someone comes over just to look even if you have your hubby home they can always come back when he is not. I had someone try to steal a dog right out of my arms when my husband was home with me becuase they refused to accept the fact that I wouldnt let them breed even though they new it before hand. (it's always different when you have to sign on the dotted line) in fact the guy said to me well i will just breed her withouth the papers and I scooped her up and said I dont think so. Thankfully the puppy and my husband was ok. But were talking a 6'3 250lb guy that was a friend of my sisters (that is whole different story) and my husband is short and stalky. OMG! Thankfully he was able to roll and wrestle him out the door so we could lock it and it was in brod daylight! The neighbors came out and he took off but I didnt sleep for weeks with worry that he would come back to steal them or hurt us.
I dont let people come over unless I know they are serious and I can do a bit of a background check on them to confirm who they are, where they live and that they are decent people. Im still leary though and would rather not do it untill I have a deposit from them. We have had a few situations in Northern Ca. where people are getting thier puppies stolen. I can understand wanting to see the parents etc.. but I've been trying to figure out a safe way to do that for a long time.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Brandy - wow that must have been very frightening!! There has got to be some middle ground so that you breeders feel safe, yet the consumer is able to view the pup and parents and living conditions. I have read that many breeders require the name and number of the potential owners vet. I would think that that would be a good recommendation - it tells you that the person holds an account somewhere & hopefully the vet staff is willing to give you enough information to feel more comfortable. An outside meeting with neighbors & hubbys around might be helpful & they are only invited in once you feel comfortable about the person. 
It has to be rough as both sides need very importants items - one to be safe, the other to be sure they are purchasing what they think they are! The fact that the lady got nasty makes me think there is something wrong, other than not wanting someone to come to her home. I think a normal person would just nicely explain why.


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

I remember my breeder saying she did a background check before she would meet people............. I always thought it was to see if I was able to afford the dog and give it a good home. Now I see that she probably did it to make sure that I wasn't a nut!!!!!!!! I guess I can see why. That is scary stuff.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

I totally agree that you shouldnt let casual lookers over but most breeders require potential parents to fill out a LONG application before it goes any further. THen they have the chance to check out references etc... ANd should have had many conversations(i wore my breeder out with emails & questions!) so everyone is comfy with one another.

No way would i just let anyone over.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Brandy, how scary for you and your family! I'm sorry that happened, but I'm also very glad you took that little girl back and refused to sell it to that a****** ! 

I am so upset at how common puppy mills are, how unscrupulous so many breeders and buyers can be and that they seem to be impossible to get rid of! :frusty: I could strangle these people and not shed a tear at their demise!

I now understand why Ricky's buyer had us sit at a table on their porch when we went to pick him up. I'm sure they were sizing us up as we chit chatted and looked at the pups in their large pen outside. The pups were born and raised in their house, but the setup they had on their porch was great for keeping the pups in sight while still being able to go outside once in a while. Once we had chosen Ricky and were ready to leave, we went inside to sign the contract. 

I think I'd also be a little nervous about all kinds of people coming over to my home. Especially if you have young kids. It can make you feel a little vulnerable. I suppose this is where the questionnaires, phone calls, checks and emails come into play. Both sides get a feel for each other before taking that step.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Brandy!! Yikes!

That is SO scary  And even scarier that he was a friend of your sisters, so you probably felt a little safety in that beforehand.

There has to be some some sort of happy medium, I know buyers want to make sure the puppies aren't being neglected, or coming from a mill, and want to know they are raised in a loving, social, safe, environment, but yet..the breeders shouldn't have to feel in jeopardy about people coming in their homes.

Elaine, did you ever ask the breeder to elaborate her reasoning?

I would think one solution, is to have a certain day set aside, like maybe a weekend day, and you could always make sure that someone is there for your safety, husband, big burly friend, off duty policeman, etc.

I was releived that Gucci's breeder let my FIL go visit her house, it really eased my worries buying from a different state, and sending a family member to check things out before I went through with it. Although, I had already sent in a deposit check before he visited, so she knew I was very serious about a puppy....IF the 4859485 emails and questions from me weren't enough! ound: 

Kara


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

It was very scary. The worst part about it was he wouldnt give up. He kept calling threatning me and my husband with violence. My sister was no help either. She couldnt understand how I could expect someone to pay that much money for a dog and not be able to do what they wanted with it. The most upsetting part about it all was the lack of support from my sister. We didnt talk for over a year and still dont have a good relationship. I'm not really sure she even understood everything that was going on. I couldnt get a word in edge wise to tell her. She was/is a real B****. Actually I should have known better than to do business with one of her friends but I actually thought it was one of her "new" husbands friends who happens to be a police offer and when I called him he told me it was my sisters friend and he barely knows the guy. UGGG! He didnt want to get involved...nice guy huh. I think my kids were 1 and 3 at the time.

I do a lot of screening before hand but have never had them fill out the app. before they came over. That's a good idea. I normally sent them a copy (without my address of course) so they new what to expect and there were no surprises. I try to get all my questions and theirs answered so the only thing left is to meet me and my dogs. I can think of more stuff to add to my app. now that would enable me to do some more checking on them. Thank you.
Also the vet reference is a good idea too. I could also confirm their address that way and even do a drive by their home first. Lots of great suggestions. Thank you. Keep em coming...
Seems lately I have been having a lot of people interested in the breed but not ready to buy and wanting to come over to meet my dogs to see if the breed is for them. For those people I have been referring them to dog shows and the internet for group playdates. Im sure I have turned a lot of buyers away that way but better safe than sorry. 
~Brandy


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

When we went to get Shelby, we had the option of driving 6 hrs to pick her up, or meeting 1/2 way (for an additional). We chose to pay the additional money and have the breeder meet us 1/2 way.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

I'm sorry that happened to you Brandy - that would be so scary!

I am very happy with how things worked out for us when we got Lincoln.
I corresponded with my breeder by email first, then she invited me to a show near me that she was going to be showing at, then we went to visit her house (2 hours away), and then we lucked out because she came down to my area for her granddaughter's birthday and so she offered to bring my puppy down here to me (no extra charge)! Actually, she delivered 4 puppies that day - all of us just happen to live in this area, so we met at a place just off the freeway. It was nice to meet the other owners in person too. But I was really glad I got to see where my puppy grew up - the breeder's backyard is like Havanese Disneyland!

When we got Scout, I brought Lincoln to the fairgrounds near here (my breeder was here showing again) so they could meet each other on neutral-ish territory which worked out really well.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Jane said:


> But I was really glad I got to see where my puppy grew up - the breeder's backyard is like Havanese Disneyland!


 Yes, that's a fun way of describing it! LOL!


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## ElaineK (Nov 10, 2006)

You know you all have listed legitimate reasons for breeders being careful and I can truly understand that. But when you have a breeder who doesn't seem to unerstand that the one dog you asked about may not be the one your wanting, and she has other dogs listed that may be better or best suited to your needs and wants and just dismisses them when you even mention coming by to see them, it just raised questions for me. I'm not interested in being in their home, just outside to be able to visit with all the puppies available and make a good choice. What ever happened to the idea of watching puppies to see how they behave and then kinda just know when one if right for you. You see also, I have been thru this before and did not get the honest scoop from the breeder. My Barney could not be registered because she never provided me with the information. Also, his one eye is devoid of pigmentation, not mentioned when we discussed price and so on. Had to call her Vet several times for Rabies and shot information, ended up getting another puppies records and had to start all over. Very hard for me not to be suspectious when this woman just all but jumped at me for wanting to come by and see the dogs. But, she ran scared after that conversation and never called me again, so now I'm looking elsewhere. Oh well, I know I'll find the right puppy, I'm not discourged but so thankful to hear all of you express your concerns, just proves how much your dogs mean to you, and that's a "good" thing.. Elaine


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## lcy_pt (Aug 17, 2007)

There is always two sides to the story....


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Brandy, I just caught up on this thread-- What a horrifying situation. I'm glad it turned out OK. I've always wondered how realtors do it? They are always alone in cars and in often times empty houses with strangers. It's scary.


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

girls, it was scarry. Thankfully my husband is pretty good at holding his own despite his size. 
It's difficult being stuck between a rock and hard place and I know Im a lot harder to get to meet than most breeders but I think our family and our dogs safety comes first. I have gotten some good ideas to help open my doors a bit to find a happy medium.
I never thought about being on the realtors side of the fence. Wow! It's amazing you dont hear of horror stories with the situations they put them selves in. 
~Brandy


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I have heard alot of stories of realtors being raped, or robbed! Scary!

My husband used to own a jewelry store and was robbed, tied to a chair and almost shot. He is still very precautious/paranoid to this day about keeping the alarm on, and watching my back, etc. So, I know how deeply it effected him. 

This is the first I had ever heard about breeders, I never would've thought it would be so risky. I guess I probably didn't have any problems because I had sent a deposit in?

My husband isn't a real big guy, but he can definately HOLD his OWN and doesn't put up with any BS. He's a character.

But yes, you have to protect your kids and yourself, too.

Funny, your story reminded me of a comment I received about Gucci, someone had asked how much she cost, and I think I told them $1000 (which was less than I paid,but I didnt' want to tell the real price/offend him) and he was like "You need to breed that dog for that kinda money and get some back", "You coulda got 10 dogs for that price", "I could buy a car for that", etc. (a real ******* type of guy) So, yep......I can see how *some* people think that way. I'm pretty sure Gucci cost more than his car, but I wasnt' going to point that out or tell him what I paid. lol 

Kara


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Well Elaine,
I think the right puppy is out there for you somewhere.You'll just have to keep looking.:hug:
You have every right to see where the pups grow up,or see the entire litter,Dam and Sire etc.I know from the breeder's point of view,it must be difficult too...I understand that side as well.Elaine,just remember you are PAYING a FEW dollars for a havanese.......your money should get you a great healthy puppy and a great breeder too or at least a breeder who is open about how/where/when/why etc. as it pertains to the pup.

:thumb:Here's hoping you find one soon!:tea:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

great way to shut people up about how much you paid for your dogs is the Allergy Excuse. In my case it happens to be true-- but if you tell them " I would have loved to rescue a pound dog-- but I am allergic to all other breeds" 
it usually shuts them up.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

That is really TRUE for me, but I never thought to mention it. I didn't want a dog that would exascerbate my allergies/asthma. I'll remember that, Missy..thanks.

I didn't want to seem pretentious. And I know some people think that if you spend more than $100 on a dog, than you are pretentious, etc. I am generally leary of dogs from the pound, because I worry that I would've had aggresive issues, which would be alright for someone that is a very experienced dog person, but not for someone learning as they go, ya know?

I could probably handle it now, I guess...but I love Havs 

Kara


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

ElaineK said:


> Ok, so now I've addressed the issue of buying a second puppy and found one I might like. Have visted with the breeder but when I said I wanted to come down tomorrow to see the dog and maybe other dogs she has she became very agaited with me and said she would not allow anyone to come to her home. Supposely she had a bad "experience" with someone and will bring the dog to meet me half way. I explained that I really would like to see the parents of this pup and some of the other males she has listed and was told that she sold one of them and probably will have the other sold. Now I am very leary of this situation. Think I should just walk away from it. What do you all think??


I welcome people to come see my dogs but there are risks involved and maybe she's had a litter get sick with parvo that someone brought into her house or maybe people from the net scare her unless she's already met them. Remember that yorkie breeder in California that had her litter stolen by people who came to look at them? I'd say to give her a chance to explain why she feels this way. If she's willing to meet you, find out you aren't a danger to her and then says you can't come over, then I'd run the other way. Has she already done a background check on you?


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

brandy said:


> I'm glad I read this post because I have been on the fence about this situation for a while now. Im the type of person that if it's going to happen it seems to happen to me. I dont like people to come over at all if they are just shopping around. It's waaayyy to dangerous and I have my two small children to think about as well. If someone comes over just to look even if you have your hubby home they can always come back when he is not. I had someone try to steal a dog right out of my arms when my husband was home with me becuase they refused to accept the fact that I wouldnt let them breed even though they new it before hand. (it's always different when you have to sign on the dotted line) in fact the guy said to me well i will just breed her withouth the papers and I scooped her up and said I dont think so. Thankfully the puppy and my husband was ok. But were talking a 6'3 250lb guy that was a friend of my sisters (that is whole different story) and my husband is short and stalky. OMG! Thankfully he was able to roll and wrestle him out the door so we could lock it and it was in brod daylight! The neighbors came out and he took off but I didnt sleep for weeks with worry that he would come back to steal them or hurt us.
> I dont let people come over unless I know they are serious and I can do a bit of a background check on them to confirm who they are, where they live and that they are decent people. Im still leary though and would rather not do it untill I have a deposit from them. We have had a few situations in Northern Ca. where people are getting thier puppies stolen. I can understand wanting to see the parents etc.. but I've been trying to figure out a safe way to do that for a long time.


Thank goodness you were lucky Brandy. 
This isn't about puppies but I know a woman that belongs to a large group of people that do artwork online. She invited one of the men in that group over to her house and oh my gosh, the police pictures of her body when he finished with her were enough to leave your jaw hanging. That's one time that AOL stepped in and worked with the FBI to nail him. I'm surprised he left her alive in that condition but at that time AOL was making a big deal out of not letting anyone see their records of who had what account so maybe that's what he counted on.
On a funny note, I let someone come to my house that I thought I knew. I 'knew' her online for years and thought she was kind of a prude when I first met her online. When she came to my house, she jumped up on my KITCHEN ISLAND with her pants off and asked my husband to change her body jewelry. He ran and hid in the bedroom with the dogs and locked the door :fear: and I scrubbed that island for days with bleach after putting her on a bus to go home. uke: uke:


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

ElaineK said:


> You know you all have listed legitimate reasons for breeders being careful and I can truly understand that. But when you have a breeder who doesn't seem to unerstand that the one dog you asked about may not be the one your wanting, and she has other dogs listed that may be better or best suited to your needs and wants and just dismisses them when you even mention coming by to see them, it just raised questions for me. I'm not interested in being in their home, just outside to be able to visit with all the puppies available and make a good choice. What ever happened to the idea of watching puppies to see how they behave and then kinda just know when one if right for you. You see also, I have been thru this before and did not get the honest scoop from the breeder. My Barney could not be registered because she never provided me with the information. Also, his one eye is devoid of pigmentation, not mentioned when we discussed price and so on. Had to call her Vet several times for Rabies and shot information, ended up getting another puppies records and had to start all over. Very hard for me not to be suspectious when this woman just all but jumped at me for wanting to come by and see the dogs. But, she ran scared after that conversation and never called me again, so now I'm looking elsewhere. Oh well, I know I'll find the right puppy, I'm not discourged but so thankful to hear all of you express your concerns, just proves how much your dogs mean to you, and that's a "good" thing.. Elaine


That's a shame that you had a bad experience Elaine. We'll all just have to send good wishes out to the universe for you to find the puppy that's perfect for you and with a breeder that's honest with you and respects you. They are out there.....hang in there and you'll find one.
If you've seen a picture of this puppy and feel a strong tug to it, talk more to the breeder about her fears and see if she'll meet you half way to get to know you. For all we know, she may have been attacked when a messed up person 'came to see the puppies'. Give her a chance and then decide if she's someone you want to have a relationship with. When that puppy leaves a breeders house, your relationship should grow, not go away. 
Sending best wishes that you find the puppy of your dreams.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Missy said:


> Brandy, I just caught up on this thread-- What a horrifying situation. I'm glad it turned out OK. I've always wondered how realtors do it? They are always alone in cars and in often times empty houses with strangers. It's scary.


I used to be a Realtor and we were told that we had to stay in pairs because there had been a rash of attacks on Realtors and one death of a male Realtor. It's a spooky world out there.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Sorry Jan-----but I'm still picturing the bimbo on your kitchen counter!ound:
I'm sorry--it not funnyound:I'm sorry!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Jan, _"On a funny note, I let someone come to my house that I thought I knew. I 'knew' her online for years and thought she was kind of a prude when I first met her online. When she came to my house, she jumped up on my KITCHEN ISLAND with her pants off and asked my husband to change her body jewelry. He ran and hid in the bedroom with the dogs and locked the door and I scrubbed that island for days with bleach after putting her on a bus to go home."_

OMG! ound: ound: :crazy: Julie and I are NOT laughing that this happened to you, Jan. Really! We aren't!























I've crossed the country to stay with an online friend I'd never met. I was staying in her home, with her hubby and kids for 5 days. I travelled there with a Toronto online friend that I'd also never met! I've met several online friends in person and had 4 as guests in my home, but of course I keep telling my kids "Don't EVER do what I do!"







LMBO


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Jan, I'm sorry but that mental picture is just too funny! I think that would have been the perfect excuse to remodel my kitchen!! I've been very lucky with the few folks I've met online and subsequently met in person. One has turned out to be a long time dear friend even though there is about a 13 year age gap (I'm older than she). 

I feel very, very lucky to have found our breeder. We emailed a few times and then I got up the guts to make a cold call and we talked on the phone for about 30 minutes and then I asked if we could visit her home to see some adult dogs and the rest is history. She says she does get a little nervous sometimes if her husband isn't home and someone wants to look at puppies. I told her that my husband and his friend Alex would be happy to just happen to be cleaning and loading their M1 Garand rifles (they enjoy going to the shooting range) in her front yard when visitors arrive...... 

Elaine, I wish you the best in your puppy search.

Susan


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

The kitchen counter thing is kinda funny!!ound: 
I was thinking the same thing about my hubby & son, just let them clean their target shooting guns while company comes!
I was just so LUCKY to have found my breeder, I never checked her out before hand, and when I got Lily didnt know at thing about Havanese, and testing etc. - so again - I am really lucky!!!


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

The icons are making me laugh even harder than remembering what she did on my kitchen island. It is funny now but oh did I say a few choice words as I was scrubbing and scrubbing that island with bleach for a few days. I think it took me well over a month to even put food on it again. :becky:


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm sorry Jan......ound:
I know it must not of been funny.....but ound:
I just can not get that visual out of my head....I'm thinking I wonder what all was pierced?OUCH....."Hey big boy....wanna change my stud?"ound:


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> The icons are making me laugh even harder than remembering what she did on my kitchen island. It is funny now but oh did I say a few choice words as I was scrubbing and scrubbing that island with bleach for a few days. I think it took me well over a month to even put food on it again. :becky:


I can imagine your husband thinking-----I'd like to make me a sandwich,but...where?Where o' where should I put my bread!uke:


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

OMG Jan! When I first read that I thought you were kidding! Where on earth did you find this person?? I would have done more than change her hardware!:jaw:


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Julie said:


> I'm sorry Jan......ound:
> I know it must not of been funny.....but ound:
> I just can not get that visual out of my head....I'm thinking I wonder what all was pierced?OUCH....."Hey big boy....wanna change my stud?"ound:


ound: :laugh: Now that's funny!! I found out she had her top female and bottom female parts pierced. Before she jumped up on my kitchen island, she asked me if we had funky jewelry stores in town so I took her to the mall. Silly me, I'm thinking studs for her ears but it was a little lower than that. Anyhow we're in this strange shop that sold stud jewelry and I was so dumb I didn't even know what it was for. The guy asked her what size stud she needed and she said she didn't know so she pulled her top down and showed him the size she needed. Should have given me the first clue, huh? 
But, I now know that studs come in different circumferences! LOL a lot of good that information is going to do me.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

ElaineK said:


> I'm not discourged but so thankful to hear all of you express your concerns, just proves how much your dogs mean to you, and that's a "good" thing.. Elaine


Elaine, I can feel the frustration in your post and I'm so sorry for you. You've had a bad experience and want to make sure you get a good one the next time. My best advice is to talk to people who have puppies or dogs and ask them about their breeder. Ask if the breeder keeps in close touch with them, if the breeder trained them before sending them to their new house, ask if the breeder met their needs, if they felt the breeder was honest with them, etc. All of those are important things. Take all the information you can gather and narrow down your search from there.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> My husband used to own a jewelry store and was robbed, tied to a chair and almost shot. He is still very precautious/paranoid to this day about keeping the alarm on, and watching my back, etc. So, I know how deeply it effected him. Funny, your story reminded me of a comment I received about Gucci, someone had asked how much she cost, and I think I told them $1000 (which was less than I paid,but I didnt' want to tell the real price/offend him) and he was like "You need to breed that dog for that kinda money and get some back", "You coulda got 10 dogs for that price", "I could buy a car for that", etc. (a real ******* type of guy) So, yep......I can see how *some* people think that way. I'm pretty sure Gucci cost more than his car, but I wasnt' going to point that out or tell him what I paid. lol
> 
> Kara


I wonder if anyone could really get over being almost shot and robbed? I think I'd always be watching my back too. A lot of the time I have the house alarm on during the day and it's always on at night or if we're out. We were going to get security cameras for the outside of the house then found out the house across the street from me covers the front of my house and the house behind me has security cameras that cover the back of the house. They saved me a few thousand dollars. I think that's really nice of them :biggrin1: 
I tell people my havs are mixed breeds and who knows what they are. It's common in this town to have purebred dogs stolen and I don't want one of my dogs nabbed while I'm out walking them. :fear:


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

mckennasedona said:


> She says she does get a little nervous sometimes if her husband isn't home and someone wants to look at puppies. I told her that my husband and his friend Alex would be happy to just happen to be cleaning and loading their M1 Garand rifles (they enjoy going to the shooting range) in her front yard when visitors arrive......
> 
> Elaine, I wish you the best in your puppy search.
> 
> Susan


She has more nerve than I do. A woman called me about the little girl I have and wanted to come see her because she said she was going to be in town that day and the next BUT she says the friend she's coming with is giving some speech during the evening so she can only come during the day when my husband wouldn't be home. I sent her to a breeder that lives near her.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Doggie Nut said:


> OMG Jan! When I first read that I thought you were kidding! Where on earth did you find this person?? I would have done more than change her hardware!:jaw:


Putting her jeweled self on a bus gave me enough pleasure. Then my husband could come out of hiding LOL I think that was the funniest part. He actually went in the bedroom and locked the door. I had to knock to get in my own bedroom


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Gosh, what terrible stories. I never thought of the risk to breeders of having random people come by to see puppies, for heaven's sake. What a world we live in! I met my breeder half-way to pick up my puppy, but only because of the distance. It was my idea. We had talked and corresponded for a month. Elaine, I would find a different breeder. This one sounds flakey.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> Putting her jeweled self on a bus gave me enough pleasure. Then my husband could come out of hiding LOL I think that was the funniest part. He actually went in the bedroom and locked the door. I had to knock to get in my own bedroom


That's funny too Jan!

Seriously--you were pretty lucky--there are alot of wierd-o's out there.I hadn't really thought about the risk to breeders.I guess it really could be a huge risk letting someone come by to view puppies.It truely is a shame the world is like that...eace:


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## ElaineK (Nov 10, 2006)

I did it, found an "older" puppy. She is 10 months old and she and Barney play like there is no tomorrow. I did post in another thread about Barney "humping" our new little female and now see that there is already a thread with lots of information available. "Bella" is due to visit the vet this Friday since she had not been spayed yet and I was told, had not come into heat, but think she probably did without owners knowledge. Bella is tall for a Havanese and I would like to find the thread I saw previously asking owners to send in the weight and height of their puppies. If anyone remembers where that was would appreciate finding it. Thanks!!
Elaine


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Congrats on finding Bella! She sure is a beauty! 

The thread on the weight and height is here:

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=1681&highlight=height+weight


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Congratulations on your new puppy. She is very pretty. Can't wait to see more pictures.


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Hi Elaine,

So glad to finally see a picture of "Bella"!

Hope everything is going well - she is adorable. Give us more pics!

:bounce:


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

ElaineK said:


> I did it, found an "older" puppy. She is 10 months old and she and Barney play like there is no tomorrow. I did post in another thread about Barney "humping" our new little female and now see that there is already a thread with lots of information available. "Bella" is due to visit the vet this Friday since she had not been spayed yet and I was told, had not come into heat, but think she probably did without owners knowledge. Bella is tall for a Havanese and I would like to find the thread I saw previously asking owners to send in the weight and height of their puppies. If anyone remembers where that was would appreciate finding it. Thanks!!
> Elaine


Congratulations on finding her!! Good luck finding folders you're looking for. I still can't figure this forum out. I heard Leslie named MyKee and am trying to find that. I may be up till 5 am digging through here. <sigh> 
Hand me the forum dunce hat please.
arty: Ah well, close enough


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> Congratulations on finding her!! Good luck finding folders you're looking for. I still can't figure this forum out. I heard Leslie named MyKee and am trying to find that. I may be up till 5 am digging through here. <sigh>
> Hand me the forum dunce hat please.
> arty: Ah well, close enough


Leslie named her puppy where??? I cant find it either.. Jan are you starting rumors or do I need to borrow your dunce hat today ound:


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Elaine, what a beautiful Hav! Bella is a great name too.  I'm happy you found your pup and an older one is much easier in my opinion, when you don't want to go through the baby/house training all over again.

Congratulations!


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

I would for sure Run as fast as I could on the average if some one wont let you come to there home when you are buying one of there dogs that they are saleing they have something to hide like a puppy mill or bad up keep on the animals there are so many reasons why a breeder would not let you see the animals in there own home. I have seen breeders that want you to see them in there own home and then even go as to say well I want to see where the puppy will be living if I decided to sale one to you PLEASE be very careful I look at it this way if you dont have any thing to hide and you take very good care of your animals then there is no reason to not let you . It is just "MY Thinking " on this matter been burnt once it will never happen to me again.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Elaine, I'm glad everything worked out for you and Bella to find each other.


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