# Not impressed



## West End Girl (Feb 18, 2011)

I haven't posted here on awhile. Quite frankly, with the breeders of mine, I've been reluctant to do so and my enthusiasm has diminished quite a bit.

In any event, I took Lola to the groomers for the 1st time yesterday. Her coat was long and I thought I wanted it that way, but the matts and my schedule were proving a little hectic.

My best friend is a groomer and the intent was to take her there. Unfortunately, that wasn't possible so I had to research a place where I could trust. Good luck.

I took her to a place called the Ark Pet Spaw and Emporium. I was told the groomer recommended was VERY experienced and catered to the "particular Havanese" owners- you know......us "anal" folks who dare want their dog groomed a certain way,

So anyways, when I took Lola in yesterday, I was greeted by this groomer who upon meeting Lola complimented her on her long coat, but as she began touching her, started to criticize, moan, and complain about how matted she was. She continued to say how "sick and tired" she is of combing matts and knots out of hair. I thought to myself, "That's your job lady" RED FLAG right there, but like an idiot, I proceeded to show her the photos of what I wanted Lola to look like (these are taken from the Havanese book by Barron's). She told me NOT to waste my time showing her photos as they mean NOTHING to her because it's the DOG she has to work with....NOT the photo.

RED FLAG #2

SHe quickly grabbed her and took Lola to the back. As I drove off, I began thinking WTF? I called the salon and told the owner/Manager what had happened and she was very apologetic. She told me the groomers are there to "groom" and that she would talk to her and ensure my Lola would look the way I wanted. Well I wasn't convinced and so my husband phoned to complain after I told him the fiasco. By then, we were informed that Lola was being groomed by a different groomer. Hello????? We should have been called. This new groomer had NO clue as to what I wanted. I later get a call asking me how I want Lola's head to look. I was liviid. I told them I would come down to show them a picture, but she insisted I explain over the phone.

Long story.....here are the before and afters. I can't tell whether the nose has been shaved, but I believe it has. The hair on the upper part of the nose and between the eyes is cut also. I specifically wanted a "spiked" look. I know it's hair and it will grow back but that's NOT the point.

I asked them to keep the TAIL and ears LONG Something they actually listened to. Although they're both thinned out.

Here's what I REALLY wanted Lola to look like (LOVE this Hav)

















Before of Lola










Fancy Before photo










And AFTER

















I can't tell whether the nose has been shaved......don't want to get myself more upset


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Poor you and sweet little Lola,she has the prettiest eyes,but from what you have now it will be easy to get her to look like the Hav in the pictures.Just letting strategic hair grow out here and there.I can never understand why groomers make so much fuss about tangles and matts[as long as they are not too bad]because without them they wouldn't have a job!


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

I am so, so, sorry for your bad experience. Sometimes our gut just tells us when something is not right. It looks to me that her nose is clipped. Lizzie's got shaved once and you could see the skin. That groomer was unprofessional complaining like that. I mean, that is her job. I don't have any advice for you as I have been in the same situation. My solution was to never go to a groomer again and I take care of Lizzie myself. The hair does grow-but I know, that's not the point.

Lola really does have a sweet expression. How are things going with her?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

They shaved between Lola's eyes, but it doesn't look to me like they shaved her nose. Funnily enough, though, the photos of the Hav you like DOES have a shaved nose. (and a much-shortened beard/moustache.

How are things going with training Lola?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

awwww, I am so sorry about your experience! 
I also had some bad experiences and have chose to groom my hav myself!!
It will grow out and she will be cute as always, just remember she doesn't notice the diffrence much and is still the same sweet hav !!


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

You have every right to be mad at how things were handled. Not very professional on their part thats for sure! Lola looks adorable no matter how she is cut..love her cute little face.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I feel your pain I think they do what you don't want because they have to get them in and out in order to make money. When my two have a bunch of mats it can take me up to 4 hrs to groom. A shop wouldn't make any money grooming slow and genital. Thats a big reason I don't like taking mine to a groomer. 
I think we go threw a bit of shock when they come back from a bad groom or just a look that we didn't expect. I think the groom I cant stand the most is when they do a sanitary cut my poor Maddie is to embarrassed to even show you her back end Here is pictures of Maddie after her groom. I don't like the shaving of the nose and eyes. And I was growing out her bangs at first I didn't like the paws but now I think she looks like a little ballerina she even looks like she is walking on her tipie toes


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## West End Girl (Feb 18, 2011)

krandall said:


> They shaved between Lola's eyes, but it doesn't look to me like they shaved her nose. Funnily enough, though, the photos of the Hav you like DOES have a shaved nose. (and a much-shortened beard/moustache.
> 
> How are things going with training Lola?


Yes....those pics I love, but I told them I wanted the look w/o any shaving. Was I unrealistic in my request?

It bothered me so much that I went back there today to complain. I was told the following:

Every Hav's coat is different in texture and therefore, it's not always possible to achieve a "spiky" look like the "Sierra" look posted here by a wonderful member. I was told the spiky look works on silky coats NOT curled coats like many Hav's have.

I don't know whether that's true or not. I don't know what to believe anymore quite frankly. But what I DO know is that shaving is NOT necessary, nor is it appreciated if it's NOT requested.

As far as training Lola is concerned, things are slow. We are extremely busy and use hand signals with her mostly.

By the way.......I learned that the nasty, "attitude" groomer was apparently "let go" today. But so what? Her unpleasant manner will travel with her wherever she goes. And I don't plan on ever returning to that pet "spaw"


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm sorry you had such an unprofessional and unpleasant experience. There is no excuse for that. As a groomer, I always try to balance out what the owner wants and what can be realistically accomplished. It is unrealistic to ask the groomer to leave the dog in a longer coat if it is moderately matted. Suzi is right, we don't make any money because it takes too much time, and for me, I don't like putting a dog through the discomfort of such a groom. It also completely messes up my day because I have other dogs to groom and people get very upset if their dog is there for longer because I have to spend more time on another person's dog. Actually, if I had tried to demat and groom every matted dog, there would be many dogs that wouldn't have gotten their groom that days because their time would have been taken by the matted dog. If I feel the dog is demattable, I will tell the owner I can attempt a dematting session for that day and come back for the bath and groom another day. But I am more willing to work with the owners, my manager would say, Shave the dog or leave. Unfortunately, anyone can pick up a pair of scissors and say they're a groomer, let alone know how to properly care for the dog, execute the groom, and have good communication with the owner. Here are a few pics of my grooms, I have been slacking and haven't taken any recent ones. The Shih mix is from when I was first learning how to groom and I took the nose close just like how I was taught. Later on I developed my own style and will leave the bridge of the nose mostly untouched on many dogs, I just adjust it to the owner's directions and what matches the rest of the dog. Usually if a dog is in a shorter cut, the face will be trimmed shorter. On the long haired dog, the bridge of the nose is left alone. Same with schnauzers, I dont take the bridge hair off and get really ticked off if another groomer ruins one of my dogs by shaving the nose. That takes a while to grow back! And I'm the groomer, not the owner!


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I am so sorry .... You have come to the right place to blow off steam. You have a good groom to learn to follow. I have learned to groom on my own. It takes time to learn as you groom. I like to see the eyes, so I do trim the hair between the eyes.


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## West End Girl (Feb 18, 2011)

atsilvers27 said:


> I'm sorry you had such an unprofessional and unpleasant experience. There is no excuse for that. As a groomer, I always try to balance out what the owner wants and what can be realistically accomplished. It is unrealistic to ask the groomer to leave the dog in a longer coat if it is moderately matted. Suzi is right, we don't make any money because it takes too much time, and for me, I don't like putting a dog through the discomfort of such a groom. It also completely messes up my day because I have other dogs to groom and people get very upset if their dog is there for longer because I have to spend more time on another person's dog. Actually, if I had tried to demat and groom every matted dog, there would be many dogs that wouldn't have gotten their groom that days because their time would have been taken by the matted dog. If I feel the dog is demattable, I will tell the owner I can attempt a dematting session for that day and come back for the bath and groom another day. But I am more willing to work with the owners, my manager would say, Shave the dog or leave. Unfortunately, anyone can pick up a pair of scissors and say they're a groomer, let alone know how to properly care for the dog, execute the groom, and have good communication with the owner. Here are a few pics of my grooms, I have been slacking and haven't taken any recent ones. The Shih mix is from when I was first learning how to groom and I took the nose close just like how I was taught. Later on I developed my own style and will leave the bridge of the nose mostly untouched on many dogs, I just adjust it to the owner's directions and what matches the rest of the dog. Usually if a dog is in a shorter cut, the face will be trimmed shorter. On the long haired dog, the bridge of the nose is left alone. Same with schnauzers, I dont take the bridge hair off and get really ticked off if another groomer ruins one of my dogs by shaving the nose. That takes a while to grow back! And I'm the groomer, not the owner!


LOVE this groomed photo. Your work is excellent.

Hopefully when Lola's coat starts to grow out again, her face will look better.

On the body, I love the "velvet" look where it's super short. But again, I was told that it's not always possible to achieve as it's dependent on the dog's coat and texture which is subjective.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

West End Girl said:


> Yes....those pics I love, but I told them I wanted the look w/o any shaving. Was I unrealistic in my request?
> 
> It bothered me so much that I went back there today to complain. I was told the following:
> 
> ...


It IS true that every Hav's coat is a little different, and they also change as they mature... the bangs that worked on Kodi for over 2 years aren't working anymore. HOWEVER, there was NO reason for the woman to be rude to you, and NO reason that they couldn't have had that conversation with you BEFORE they did anything to Lola. Certainly, if they felt that something you wanted wasn't going to work, they should have discussed that with you, and told you what reasonable alternatives made sense so that you could choose.


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## lanabanana (Jul 2, 2011)

Well, your experience makes my supposed grooming disaster this week seem very tame! I'm getting used to Baxter's short bangs and opened up eyes. It really is growing on me and his body looks good, so I'm hoping the same will happen to you. I feel your pain, I'll tell you that.

Alanna


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I'm so sorry, and I just don't get the whole shaving nose thing. I don't see that being necessary with havanese, it looks odd to me (no offense to anyone who does the nose shave and likes it, I just don't 'get' it, I suppose)

Nice to hear the rude lady was fired. Hopefully, she will pursue another line of work that doesn't involve listening and dealing with the public in any way, shape or form.

Kara


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree... Even for a Hav in a puppy coat, I don't see the piont of shaving the bridge of the nose!


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

First let me say that Lola is adorable. I think you should learn to groom her yourself. It really isn't that hard to do. I groom my two because every groomer I have seen just wants to shave them down. I have a friend and his girlfriend is a groomer. She must do OK because her shop has been open for about 5 yrs now. Two summers ago I went to check her out and I saw about 7 groomers shaving dogs almost bare. They were all different breeds, but they all looked the same. That's when I started doing my own grooming.

One thing I've noticed is that Kodi had very cottony hair on his back. Since I've been grooming him, it has smoothed out and is not as cottony. The good thing is that it is hair and it does grow back.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

atsilvers27 said:


> I'm sorry you had such an unprofessional and unpleasant experience. There is no excuse for that. As a groomer, I always try to balance out what the owner wants and what can be realistically accomplished. It is unrealistic to ask the groomer to leave the dog in a longer coat if it is moderately matted. Suzi is right, we don't make any money because it takes too much time, and for me, I don't like putting a dog through the discomfort of such a groom. It also completely messes up my day because I have other dogs to groom and people get very upset if their dog is there for longer because I have to spend more time on another person's dog. Actually, if I had tried to demat and groom every matted dog, there would be many dogs that wouldn't have gotten their groom that days because their time would have been taken by the matted dog. If I feel the dog is demattable, I will tell the owner I can attempt a dematting session for that day and come back for the bath and groom another day. But I am more willing to work with the owners, my manager would say, Shave the dog or leave. Unfortunately, anyone can pick up a pair of scissors and say they're a groomer, let alone know how to properly care for the dog, execute the groom, and have good communication with the owner. Here are a few pics of my grooms, I have been slacking and haven't taken any recent ones. The Shih mix is from when I was first learning how to groom and I took the nose close just like how I was taught. Later on I developed my own style and will leave the bridge of the nose mostly untouched on many dogs, I just adjust it to the owner's directions and what matches the rest of the dog. Usually if a dog is in a shorter cut, the face will be trimmed shorter. On the long haired dog, the bridge of the nose is left alone. Same with schnauzers, I dont take the bridge hair off and get really ticked off if another groomer ruins one of my dogs by shaving the nose. That takes a while to grow back! And I'm the groomer, not the owner!


 I like your pictures. Did you go to a grooming school or were you trained at your shop? I applied at several petco's but no one contacted me. Does your back get sore? how many dogs do you do in a day? what shampoo and conditioner do you use. Maddie came home really soft compared to when I groom her I don't know if it was the more experienced groomer blow drying or the product. Okay I'm done with my fifty questions.


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## West End Girl (Feb 18, 2011)

Krandall, Lanabanana, Thumper, & Irnfit.....you ladies are lovely. Thank you for making me feel better. It's amazing the excuses the Manager came up with as to why the face needed to be shaved and why the groomers do what they do. Many don't give a crap. After all......they don't have to see your dog everyday and the majority of their excuses is that "hair will grow back" My view is that, once hair is CUT, that's IT. Go too far and you'll have to wait, so best to err on the side of caution.

I think I will educate myself as to how to groom Lola. I will research what tools are needed etc......

With that said, I did invest in 2 good pairs of shears today and came home and trimmed Lola's face- the fur by her nose and mouth. I took it about an inch shorter and "spiked" it in so that it looks natural and more "puppy-like" I didn't like the longer sides beside her nose hanging towards her chin- she looked silly to me and it wasn't a very attractive look.

I'm attaching a few pics of my work LOL My kids and husband said she looks much better already. I think so too.

































And one of the back of her head to show what she looks like. The ears are cute!


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

so sorry to hear about the gromming gone bad! your pup still looks beautiful but i know when you are expecting one thing and they look completely different. if you see dogs out while you are walking yours and you like the way the look, stop and ask the person who grooms their dogs. we had a horrible groomer initially (actually someone else groomed him instead of the owner) and it Django looked like a trian wreck. i am sure pictures would be helpful as well. call different vet clinics, that's how we round our groomer who is great.
just remind your pup they look beautiful and continue on with the search. such a bummer.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

West End Girl said:


> Krandall, Lanabanana, Thumper, & Irnfit.....you ladies are lovely. Thank you for making me feel better. It's amazing the excuses the Manager came up with as to why the face needed to be shaved and why the groomers do what they do. Many don't give a crap. After all......they don't have to see your dog everyday and the majority of their excuses is that "hair will grow back" My view is that, once hair is CUT, that's IT. Go too far and you'll have to wait, so best to err on the side of caution.
> 
> I think I will educate myself as to how to groom Lola. I will research what tools are needed etc......
> 
> ...


Oh, I agree! You did a great job. She looks MUCH better now. Now whay couldn't THEY do that!?!?!

Another option besides doing it completely yourself is to find a groomer who will let you stay with Lola and watch what she is doing. Obviously, that's probably not going to be at a Petsmart or Petco... It will have to be an independent person. But that's exactly what I do with my groomer. We stand together and make decisions as she works. Of course, by now she knows exactly what I want, and at what time of year. (I have her shave his belly in the summer, and we let it grow out in the winter, for instance) She also knows I'd MUCh rather have her be cautious, and pay to come back sooner than have her take too much off.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

awwwww, you did a TERRIFIC job on her face!!! good for you!!
and I love the way her little curly coat looks on the close up pic! 
adorable!!!


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## West End Girl (Feb 18, 2011)

Thanks Karen & Tammy! :hug:

She looks MUCH better with her mouth spiked and trimmed. Amazing what one inch makes! And you're right Karen......why couldn't THEY do that? 

There IS a place here called "Bark & Fitz" It's a franchise, fancy, schmancy dog store but they also incorporate a grooming section (that's separate but IN the store). Anyways, the Manager of the new location and I have a great relationship and one of the groomers does an AMAZING job on Havanese breeds. I actually was in the store when a client picked up her Hav and he looked great. I might try that groomer next time as the grooming section is visible with lots of windows and owners are welcomed to stay and watch their dogs being groomed- a plus in my opinion. 

It's a gorgeous day today so I might take some photos of Lola. 

Finally, I'm excited about her look! She's my little Princess!


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