# Nails are super long, can't be cut



## Seeker (Dec 9, 2012)

Good morning. Need some information to see if anyone has had this issue and what was done about it. My Havi is 10 years old. His issue is that his nails are super long, along with his quick. I was taking him to the vet to dremel and cut what she could, because his quick is too long, She would give him a quick sedative, it was the only way to do it. I would dremel a what I could at home to help, but his nails just kept growing and growing. The vet found a heart murmur, and she can no longer give him a sedative to do the nails. Last time I was there, she was not able to do a thing. 

I give him a CBD treat and dremel what I can every two weeks or so, but it is a struggle. He fights me, pushes, wines and and anything else he can even though I am not hurting him. 

I don't know what else I can do. Should I have them cut when his teeth are cleaned and he is sedated? Will that be too painful? Too risky for infection? 

Any suggestions or advise would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks
P.S. Yes he goes for walks, always have, but that never helped, the nails got longer and no receding from the quick.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

The following video may help you. It explains the traditional nail cut vs alternative cuts. The alternative cut takes more material off the top of the nail and the sides which is what will help the quick recede. Also, taking it off the top and sides does not freak the dog out as much, especially one with long quicks. Frequency of nail trimming is important but technique is even more so IMO.






I have heard of rescue dogs with really long nails having their nails clipped short intentionally cutting through the quick while under anesthesia. I am not sure if this can cause any problems or not. I don’t know anyone personally who has done this.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I have heard of rescue dogs with really long nails having their nails clipped short intentionally cutting through the quick while under anesthesia. I am not sure if this can cause any problems or not. I don’t know anyone personally who has done this.


I have talked to my vet about this, because I know that some show people do it in some breeds. (It is not commonly done in Havanese) She told me that she refuses to do it. She says that it creates an open wound in the end of each nail, and even with cauterization, it is not only very painful for the dog to walk on when they wake up, but it is a a direct route into the blood system for a staph infection. The most she will do under sedation for dentistry (or other) is to take them back until they JUST START to bleed, and cauterize them there. But in a case like this, that probably wouldn’t take much off.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I have talked to my vet about this, because I know that some show people do it in some breeds. (It is not commonly done in Havanese) She told me that she refuses to do it. She says that it creates an open wound in the end of each nail, and even with cauterization, it is not only very painful for the dog to walk on when they wake up, but it is a a direct route into the blood system for a staph infection. The most she will do under sedation for dentistry (or other) is to take them back until they JUST START to bleed, and cauterize them there. But in a case like this, that probably wouldn’t take much off.


Thanks. I have also heard it cause some nerve issues long term. It does not sound like a good idea but I know some of those poor rescue dogs have nails so long they cannot even walk.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Thanks. I have also heard it cause some nerve issues long term. It does not sound like a good idea but I know some of those poor rescue dogs have nails so long they cannot even walk.


Yeah, that is probably a special case, and I don’t know what they do for them…


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Yeah, that is probably a special case, and I don’t know what they do for them…


I would think that frequent and correct nail trimming could still help to reverse them but may take awhile.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Do you groom him yourself or do you take him to a groomer. I know my groomer has an easier time doing Perry's nails than I do - so be sure that your groomer is also doing them for you.

How does he feel about you touching and playing with his feet? The first step (that I've been done/ had to do with Perry) is to just sit there and play with his feet - giving him treats the whole time. If it's a nail specific thing I'd do the same but spend more time pulling on, pushing on the nails, etc.

If he has a problem with working on his nails, you also need to do it every day, not every two weeks. At first try just bringing the dremel out and holding it (turned on) while you play with his feet, giving treats. then try just doing 1 nail (treating). Doing what you can to not stress him while you're doing just one or two nails at a time - even if it means doing it a few times in the day.

We're still working at it with Perry because I haven't been as consistent of doing it every day so consistency is important.


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## UrsaMinor (Jul 4, 2021)

I'm also working on reducing Ursa's quick. I'm doing it myself because it can be harder to take her to the groomer periodically.
I would think that 2 weeks is a long time to make a difference--but just my hunch. I try to get in there every week and either clip and/or dremel what I can.
I'm starting to see results that I didn't when doing it every two weeks.

In addition to Melissa's tips:
I watched the two videos below.









And these from krandal helped me see how she holds their paws and, not sure if mentioned on these videos or elsewhere to wet the paw hair to get it out of the way.


krandall said:


> You are very sweet! I’ll dig it out for you!
> 
> Here you go. I gave you all the foot care ones together:
> 
> ...


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Seeker said:


> I don't know what else I can do. Should I have them cut when his teeth are cleaned and he is sedated? Will that be too painful? Too risky for infection?
> 
> Any suggestions or advise would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks
> P.S. Yes he goes for walks, always have, but that never helped, the nails got longer and no receding from the quick.


When Truffles had her teeth cleaned they did a complimentary nail trim. 😊


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

They will definitely do a complimentary nail trim when they are under for teeth, but it won't take them back a tremendous amount. 

I also wanted to mention that in the link posted by UrsaMinor, the photo of the dog with the very short nails, a Havanese foot and nails are NEVER going to look like that. Our dogs' feet are not constructed tight and upright like that. They re ALWAYS going to have somewhat longer and loose nails than that. Not that you STILL shouldn't work to keep them as close and short as possible, but do NOT feel bad if they never look like that dog's, because they won't! 

(they should also never EVER look like the dog on the left!!! 😢 )


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## Johanna (11 mo ago)

I have a friend that runs a small dog rescue that has taken a few dogs to get their nails "lasered". These were dogs that had very long nails that had curled under and needed more than a basic trim. I'm not familiar with the technique myself and I know that only certain vets have the equipment and training to do it but it might be worth looking into. Again, I'm not promoting it because I don't know a lot about it personally but when I heard about it the first time, it intrigued me.


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## Seeker (Dec 9, 2012)

mudpuppymama said:


> The following video may help you. It explains the traditional nail cut vs alternative cuts. The alternative cut takes more material off the top of the nail and the sides which is what will help the quick recede. Also, taking it off the top and sides does not freak the dog out as much, especially one with long quicks. Frequency of nail trimming is important but technique is even more so IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for this video. I am going to try doing this way to see if would help. I am so surprised that vets and groomers don't do this. 

I groom my dog since every groomer that I have taken him to has hurt him in one place or another. The last one I tried after a high recommendation, not only did a terrible grooming job, but cut his paw. So I am very apprehensive about taking him to another one, even though it is exhausting grooming him since I am not a pro. 

thanks to all who responded.


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## Seeker (Dec 9, 2012)

krandall said:


> I have talked to my vet about this, because I know that some show people do it in some breeds. (It is not commonly done in Havanese) She told me that she refuses to do it. She says that it creates an open wound in the end of each nail, and even with cauterization, it is not only very painful for the dog to walk on when they wake up, but it is a a direct route into the blood system for a staph infection. The most she will do under sedation for dentistry (or other) is to take them back until they JUST START to bleed, and cauterize them there. But in a case like this, that probably wouldn’t take much off.


Thank you. This is why I have not taken this route. I appreciate your response.


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## Seeker (Dec 9, 2012)

krandall said:


> They will definitely do a complimentary nail trim when they are under for teeth, but it won't take them back a tremendous amount.
> 
> I also wanted to mention that in the link posted by UrsaMinor, the photo of the dog with the very short nails, a Havanese foot and nails are NEVER going to look like that. Our dogs' feet are not constructed tight and upright like that. They re ALWAYS going to have somewhat longer and loose nails than that. Not that you STILL shouldn't work to keep them as close and short as possible, but do NOT feel bad if they never look like that dog's, because they won't!
> 
> (they should also never EVER look like the dog on the left!!! 😢 )


Thank you


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> They will definitely do a complimentary nail trim when they are under for teeth, but it won't take them back a tremendous amount.
> 
> I also wanted to mention that in the link posted by UrsaMinor, the photo of the dog with the very short nails, a Havanese foot and nails are NEVER going to look like that. Our dogs' feet are not constructed tight and upright like that. They re ALWAYS going to have somewhat longer and loose nails than that. Not that you STILL shouldn't work to keep them as close and short as possible, but do NOT feel bad if they never look like that dog's, because they won't!
> 
> (they should also never EVER look like the dog on the left!!! 😢 )


I am so glad you clarified this. I have been trying to reduce Mia’s quicks for years and although they have improved and look pretty good finally, they do not look like the short nubby nails in many YouTube videos!!! Now I don’t feel so bad!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Melissa Brill said:


> Do you groom him yourself or do you take him to a groomer. I know my groomer has an easier time doing Perry's nails than I do - so be sure that your groomer is also doing them for you.
> 
> How does he feel about you touching and playing with his feet? The first step (that I've been done/ had to do with Perry) is to just sit there and play with his feet - giving him treats the whole time. If it's a nail specific thing I'd do the same but spend more time pulling on, pushing on the nails, etc.
> 
> ...


Also wanted to add - how are you holding him while you do his nails? I know this may not necessarily be the "classic" position, but for Perry I sit on the floor/ bed and flip him onto his back and cradle him on my legs. This gives me better access/ visuals (though it also gives him better angles to try to kick my hands away from his front legs with his back legs  )


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## Laurasch (Jul 1, 2008)

I spoke with a vet tech once who said that they had a dog staying at their hospital kennel and trimmed his nails a tiny tiny bit every couple days. They did this for weeks, but his quicks never receded. Their conclusion - once a dog is an adult, their quicks may never recede. This was a one-off experiment, so too small a sample to assume anything really, but I still found it interesting so thought I'd share.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Laurasch said:


> I spoke with a vet tech once who said that they had a dog staying at their hospital kennel and trimmed his nails a tiny tiny bit every couple days. They did this for weeks, but his quicks never receded. Their conclusion - once a dog is an adult, their quicks may never recede. This was a one-off experiment, so too small a sample to assume anything really, but I still found it interesting so thought I'd share.


Mia’s quicks got long as a puppy because I did not do them correctly or often enough. I have gotten them to recede but it has taken some time. As mentioned in the video I posted, if you do the traditional cut they will not recede. You have to angle it back and take some off the top of the nail to discourage the quick from growing downwards. I believe this is critical. It may not work in all cases but gives you a better chance.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Laurasch said:


> I spoke with a vet tech once who said that they had a dog staying at their hospital kennel and trimmed his nails a tiny tiny bit every couple days. They did this for weeks, but his quicks never receded. Their conclusion - once a dog is an adult, their quicks may never recede. This was a one-off experiment, so too small a sample to assume anything really, but I still found it interesting so thought I'd share.


That is absolutely NOT the case... If the nails are rimmed correctly, it is definitely possible to get the quick to retract. However, it will take more than weeks.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

So with Sydney (10 wks) am I still ok using the human baby clippers? Or will that guarantee the wrong technique. Luckily she has clear tips (for now.)


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Missy said:


> So with Sydney (10 wks) am I still ok using the human baby clippers? Or will that guarantee the wrong technique. Luckily she has clear tips (for now.)


IMO the technique becomes super critical when you are trying to get the quicks to recede. I would think Sydney still has short quicks. So I think you are most likely fine as long as you do them often enough and prevent them from getting too long.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Missy said:


> So with Sydney (10 wks) am I still ok using the human baby clippers? Or will that guarantee the wrong technique. Luckily she has clear tips (for now.)


You are probably getting to the very end of when they are usable. But she is small enough that you may have a few more weeks! If she has clear nails now, you may have gotten lucky! She may keep them! If you are going to use clippers, IMO, these are the best:









RESCO Pro Series Plier Style Nail Clippers, Small, Black/Chrome - Chewy.com


Buy Resco Pro Series Plier Style Nail Clippers, Small, Black/Chrome at Chewy.com. FREE shipping and the BEST customer service!




www.chewy.com





These are usually available from Amazon too, but don’t seem to come up when I looked tonight.

But I really prefer the Dremel. Once you get used to it, there is no worry about quicking the dog, so you relax, they relax, the quick recedes faster (not an issue for you now, but I’m sure you know, it’s an in-going battle with this breed!) and all around it is likely to get done more frequently.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> IMO the technique becomes super critical when you are trying to get the quicks to recede. I would think Sydney still has short quicks. So I think you are most likely fine as long as you do them often enough and prevent them from getting too long.


The issue with baby clippers is that they aren’t very strong or sharp. As the puppy’s nails get thicker, you will get to the point where they crush more than cut, and that gets very uncomfortable. When they are still at the baby “hook” stage, it should be fine, though.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> The issue with baby clippers is that they aren’t very strong or sharp. As the puppy’s nails get thicker, you will get to the point where they crush more than cut, and that gets very uncomfortable. When they are still at the baby “hook” stage, it should be fine, though.


Ahh thanks for clarifying. I know I am dealing with nails like horse hooves now!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> You are probably getting to the very end of when they are usable. But she is small enough that you may have a few more weeks! If she has clear nails now, you may have gotten lucky! She may keep them! If you are going to use clippers, IMO, these are the best:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm team dremel as well, partially because I am more relaxed when using them which I am sure translates to Perry. He still is not a huge fan of doing his front feet, but if he does move then around i dont worry about hurting him with the dremel whereas I do worry that it might go to high when using clippers


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I just wanted to add for anyone new to the Dremel, please be very careful not to get the hair in it! One time I almost got Mia’s voluminous tail caught in it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I just wanted to add for anyone new to the Dremel, please be very careful not to get the hair in it! One time I almost got Mia’s voluminous tail caught in it.


Be careful, but don’t be overly afraid either. It DOES stop automatically if the hair gets caught in it. So you can turn it off and get it unwound in an orderly manner if YOU don’t freak out. Yhe only time I had a big problem was the first time I tried, (having NO idea what I was doing) and let Kodi get his mustache caught in it! He got surprised, Yanked the Dremel out of my hand, and flung it across the room. THAT caused the Dremel to yank out a big hunk of hair.

But it REALLY wasn’t the fault of the Dremel… IT had stopped turning! LOL! I think it was another three years before I touched the Dremel… after a lesson from my groomer!!!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Be careful, but don’t be overly afraid either. It DOES stop automatically if the hair gets caught in it. So you can turn it off and get it unwound in an orderly manner if YOU don’t freak out. Yhe only time I had a big problem was the first time I tried, (having NO idea what I was doing) and let Kodi get his mustache caught in it! He got surprised, Yanked the Dremel out of my hand, and flung it across the room. THAT caused the Dremel to yank out a big hunk of hair.
> 
> But it REALLY wasn’t the fault of the Dremel… IT had stopped turning! LOL! I think it was another three years before I touched the Dremel… after a lesson from my groomer!!!


I agree. Something to be aware of but not afraid of. I was unaware until Mia lost a few “tail feathers”!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I bought a dremel years ago and never used it. Our first groomer told me not to use.  I had the dremel discussion at our last appointment with our new groomer. She said groomers sometimes use a nylon with only the nails exposed to prevent the hair getting caught in the dremel.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Heather's said:


> I bought a dremel years ago and never used it. Our first groomer told me not to use.  I had the dremel discussion at our last appointment with our new groomer. She said groomers sometimes use a nylon with only the nails exposed to prevent the hair getting caught in the dremel.


I have heard of that. My problem has only been with Mia’s giant tail!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Heather's said:


> I bought a dremel years ago and never used it. Our first groomer told me not to use.  I had the dremel discussion at our last appointment with our new groomer. She said groomers sometimes use a nylon with only the nails exposed to prevent the hair getting caught in the dremel.


I've learned how to do even my dogs in full coat without getting their hair caught in the Dremel. But you have to have the dog standing on the table, tucked under your arm, facing away from you, and the foot back. (the way a farrier works on a horse's hoof, or the way you pick a horse's hooves of you've ever done that) In that position, it is easy to just hold the hair out of the way as you do each nail as long as you've trimmed the hair on the bottom of the feet first. I showed the position I use in the video I posted of Dremeling Kodi that was posted a while ago.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> I've learned how to do even my dogs in full coat without getting their hair caught in the Dremel. But you have to have the dog standing on the table, tucked under your arm, facing away from you, and the foot back. (the way a farrier works on a horse's hoof, or the way you pick a horse's hooves of you've ever done that) In that position, it is easy to just hold the hair out of the way as you do each nail as long as you've trimmed the hair on the bottom of the feet first. I showed the position I use in the video I posted of Dremeling Kodi that was posted a while ago.


That's how Perry's groomer does it... and how she does the pads. Now though she practically had to stand him in his back legs to do his left front or have someone hold him since the wrist spent bend anymore..


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