# WHAT IS WRONG WITH CAESAR MILAN?



## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Some of you have posted that you couldn't stand Caesar Milan and his methods. I think I even saw the word "cringe" associated with him. Being a fan of the "Dog Whisperer" so far I haven't seen anything untoward in his methods. He says that he doesn't give up on any dog, doesn't believe in euthanasia for even the red zone dogs. I know that some of the rescue groups with put down a vicious dog and won't let one be adopted if it has issues--like food agression. And I reconize that there are some people who watch him are just too stupid to have dogs in the first place. He usually works on the owners and what they are doing wrong and teaches them how to manage their animals. For my part I am the "pack leader" and my husband is a "litter mate" to Rosie. She will mind me and husband just gives up. 

I would like for you to post those things that he does that you don't agree with and for his fans those things that he does that you agree with.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I personally think he has been one of the most influential rehabilititators especially for working dogs that can quickly become aggressive when they aren't given what they need. I also think for the average pet owner his ideas of exercise, discipline, and then affection along with the handler using calm assertive energy has really changed the relationship of some pet owners. I just started reading his "be the pack leader" that I was given as a gift but too busy. Every time I read or watch his show, I really feel I need to walk my dogs more often  He definitely does that for me. He also reminds me my dogs would probably need a nice walk more than anything else 

Just my opinion,
Amanda


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

I don't have anything against him, in fact I love his show. I use many of the techniques I learned form him on Bumi and I have had strangers come up to me to tell me what a good dog/puppy my Bumi is. 
In our house, I am not sure who is pack leader, I guess me, but DH has the same influence on him. My children are above Bumi in hierarchy and he knows it and respects them.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Different things work for different people and dogs. Keep in mind, often the dogs we see on his show are extreme cases when people have tried many other things that didn't work.

I agree with Amanda, his main point is almost always education of the owner, exercise, discipline, and then affection.

Think how many dogs he's saved from being euthanized, that's success in my book.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I agree with Amanda. I’m a fan of Cesar Millan. He does not give up on the dog but maybe the owner’s ability to handle the dog. His shows only show a portion of what he and the owners have to do to correct the behavior and this is the main thing I have noticed that his adversary find fault with, he makes it look easy.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

SMARTY said:


> I agree with Amanda. I'm a fan of Cesar Millan. He does not give up on the dog but maybe the owner's ability to handle the dog. His shows only show a portion of what he and the owners have to do to correct the behavior and this is the main thing I have noticed that his adversary find fault with, he makes it look easy.


I find him to be inspiring! "he makes it looks easy" translates to he makes it look possible for me. When I see he can train better behavior for the dogs he works with, it makes me get going on working with my dogs. He really convinced me that dogs need walks, not just time in the backyard, even little dogs. Because of him I am out with my dogs doin' the walk! Like all training advice I don't follow blindly in everything he does. I consider my dogs and then pick and choose what I think is good and will work for us.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

I have not watched a tremendous amount of his shows but I have watched several that involved toy breeds. I did not see any techniques he used to be questionable. What I saw, was through the fault of the owners :redface: (who me ?) relinquish their position as pack leader and allowed to dog(s) to develop a Napoleon syndrome.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Cesar Millan is not all bad. However, Cesar is not a dog trainer. He is a behaviorist and a lot of his methods are outdated and being challenged. His expressed purpose is to "to rehabilitate and maintain a dogs' natural state of being" and *there are very few Havanese who need to be rehabilitated, which is why I cringe when I see Havanese owners, especially those getting puppies saying they use Cesar's techniques.* Havanese puppies need training, as do all dogs, not rehabilitation.

Cesar has been very helpful for "red zone" dogs. No doubt about it. He also has a few fabulous techniques, but he also has a few that are straight aversives and can cause problems in dogs that do not have aggression problems if used.

I have to run, but will leave you with a quote from another commenter and some links:


> Cesar Millan always makes a distinction between dog behaviorists (himself) and dog trainers. Whatever label you choose to use, the fact is that dogs respond to classical and operant conditioning. Simply put, classical conditioning is responsible for involuntary responses, e.g. a dog salivating when dinner is served, while operant conditioning is responsible for voluntary responses, e.g. a dog sitting for a treat.
> 
> Behavior modification and dog training are both based on classical and operant conditioning techniques. Operant conditioning techniques can further be divided into reward techniques and aversive techniques.
> 
> *Cesar Millan uses mostly aversive techniques, which some consider to be overly harsh or cruel. However, some of Cesar Millan's most effective dog training techniques turn out to be reward based; even though he does not present them as such.*


Source: http://hubpages.com/hub/Cesar-Milan-Dog-Training-the-Dog-Whisperer 
Click on this link to see examples of techniques that are praised and those that are aversive.

and...


> Another guest on Pet Central following Millan was Dr. Sophia Yin, who teaches at the University of California School of Veterinary Medicine - Davis, and is a member of the American Society of Veterinary Behavior. "Yes, owners should be calm and assertive and it's true to help dogs, we need to be in charge. *But dominance and leadership are two different things.* Dominance is defined as the use of force to gain priority access of the things you want, so animals compete for food, toys and favorite resting areas by fighting. Leadership is the ability to convince others to do things they normally wouldn't do otherwise. *A person can be a leader by bullying, or by providing incentives and rewards; in other words convincing followers you're working for the same goals. Would you rather follow a leader like Castro or Ghandi? It's no different for dogs.*"


Source and more comments on the fallacy of the dominance theory found here: http://www.stevedalepetworld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=204&Itemid=71

More links that address the specific question of the original post: http://sfdog.typepad.com/sfdog/2007/01/whats_wrong_wit.html

Again, going back to my first sentence, Cesar's techinques are not all bad, but when a person is new to dogs and needs to learn how to train a dog, it does scare me to hear them say, "Oh, I've been watching Cesar, so I'm prepared" because his show is not about training, much less training a Havanese puppy. Some of his techniques are going to be very helpful for specific situations, but it is incredibly difficult for a newbie to distinguish which techniques are helpful and which are, at best, unnecessary.


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## j.j.'s mom (Aug 16, 2009)

Havtahava said:


> Cesar Millan is not all bad. However, Cesar is not a dog trainer. He is a behaviorist and a lot of his methods are outdated and being challenged. His expressed purpose is to "to rehabilitate and maintain a dogs' natural state of being" and *there are very few Havanese who need to be rehabilitated, which is why I cringe when I see Havanese owners, especially those getting puppies saying they use Cesar's techniques.* Havanese puppies need training, as do all dogs, not rehabilitation.
> 
> :cheer2:
> davetgabby, i am waiting for your input.
> i have thoughts here, but somehow i think you can express them better....


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

My very amateur input: Pixie is super sensitive and the technique he uses with the finger jab and the "tssk" would absolutely destroy her-sort of like using tough love on a very sensitive child. I like Victoria Stillwel's methods much more for her. I find if she's looking directly at me and I calmly and softly tell her no, she gets it. I do think Cesar can do amazing things with many dogs, but with some another approach might be better.


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## Maxmom (Jul 22, 2008)

Both Cesar and Victoria use good techniques. It depends on the dog and the issue on which is best to use. What I like about Cesar is his joy when he sees the people "get it". It doesn't appear to be self-serving. My favorite Victoria episode was a recent one where she worked with a hyper bichon. The dog was so smart and Victoria was very impressed. The family followed her instructions and both dog and family were a success. I beamed like I had something to do with it!

Cesar's techniques have evolved over time. I like his show. I believe a calm assertive leader gives my dogs a sense of security. And a long walk solves so many issues. In fact, many of the issues go away or would never even happen with walks.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I like both shows,but Victoria Stillwell gas an edge over Cesar for me. What I think is the most important thing to get from both shows is not how the dogs are being trained, but rather how the owners are learning to train their dogs. 

I tried using Cesar's finger pokenwith the tssk noise. The dogs looked at me like I was nuts. Stillwell's training is pretty much of what we did in obedience classes.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I think there are many things you can take from each behaviorist or trainer depending on each dog. I have Isamonster and I will say Belle has obedience titles and she is a therapy dog so she can be a great dog as well  I do think I am Belle's pack leader and for the most part she respects me as such but Belle can easily get obsessive and dominant to other dogs. I guess in what Kimberly said, Belle's style of leadership she would be more like Castro or maybe even Hitler (she can be almost demented sometimes). 

My biggest problem is Belle has real issues around dogs that are not confident and then she picks on them. I have read a lot about this being a survival technique in dogs and that makes sense. Regardless of the reasoning, I do try and correct it when and before it gets out of hand. She has always been this way but I can usually see in a social situation what dog is going to be Belle's bully victim right when we walk in. If I take Belle into a situation with confident dogs, she behaves pretty decent. Belle never seems to pick on confident dogs. She isn't into too much doggy sniffing and won't put up with it. Sometimes, I do my sounds and will sometimes tap her to get to quit obsessing (an aversve) and this seems to work to get her focus on me. Dasher and Dora have don't have this issue thank goodness!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

good buddy said:


> Like all training advice I don't follow blindly in everything he does. I consider my dogs and then pick and choose what I think is good and will work for us.


I think this can't be said often enough. There are things that Cesar does that I think are dangerous to the dog. (particularly when he works a heavy dog like a bull dog into exhaustion) and I'm REALLY not a fan of flooding either. Often, the dog may look "calm", when they are actually just "shut down". He also attributes certain behaviors of dogs to things we KNOW from scientific studies of wild dogs don't hold true. (most of his "pack" stuff for instance... dogs and wolves live in loose family "communities" and the "leader" changes frequently, depending on the circumstances)

THAT SAID, there's a WHOLE LOT of good, common sense in what he says, starting with his mantra of "exercise, discipline, affection". I happen to think you can give the affection mixed right in with exercise as long as your not riling up an over-excited dog. But I get his point... there are many too many dogs who are spoiled rotten and never get either the exercise or discipline they need to be happy, balanced dogs.

When it comes to socialization and dog aggression, he has something unique, and something few of us can really duplicate, and that is a large, stable pack of balanced dogs where he can safely socialize dogs whose owners have never done that piece successfully. If you notice, almost all of the really dog-aggressive dogs end up going back to his center, just to learn to be dogs.

I think the BIGGEST problem is that this is a TV show folks. It's "entertainment". If people try to train their dog using just what they see on TV, ALL of what they see on TV, and don't understand what, why and when to do it, they muck things up. You actually pretty often see a segment where the owners say, "We try to do everything you suggest in your show, but it's just not working". I think the BIG PIECE that many people miss is stated in every, single show... Find a good local trainer to help you.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Havtahava said:


> Again, going back to my first sentence, Cesar's techinques are not all bad, but when a person is new to dogs and needs to learn how to train a dog, it does scare me to hear them say, "Oh, I've been watching Cesar, so I'm prepared" because his show is not about training, much less training a Havanese puppy. Some of his techniques are going to be very helpful for specific situations, but it is incredibly difficult for a newbie to distinguish which techniques are helpful and which are, at best, unnecessary.


Really good post, Kimberly. As an addition to this, I was looking forward to Cesar's "special" on raising puppies, specifically because so little of what he does on the show has anything to do with raising puppies correctly the FIRST time. Unfortunately, even though his puppies, I'm sure all turned into nice, well balanced young dogs, his methods were totally unavailable to most of us. He relied heavily upon his pack to teach them, which is something the most puppy buyers don't have available to them. Some might have another dog or two, many have no other dogs at all.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

First I try to remember usually the types of dogs he is working with and the reality of the situation those dogs have been in usually for some time. A lot of them are working breeds without a job. My dogs get pretty tired after a 2 mile walk but that is part of their appeal and the reason I own the type of dogs I own. They also all do some training so they get mentally challenged as well. Then the wonderful thing about my havs is I know no one likes to hear this but they are both very balanced and close to perfect. I will take some credit but I will give them most of it. After writting about Belle last night I was chatting with my husband and the only thing we came up with is Dash and Dora can be naughty when chasing squirrels and not want to come. But seriously neither of them has ever done anything of the things Belle does. If I look at Dash and Dora they usually stop what they are doing to see what I want. They always seem to be checked in with me. But maybe part of that is I learned to be a better dog owner after Belle. 

I just wish those behaviorist who are such harsh critics would take say his example of say "flooding" btw, many call it "exposure" and say what they would do differently. The episode I remember him flooding the dog was the Great Dane and the tile floor. He exposed the dog and reinforced it but to some this is called flooding (it makes it sound a lot harsher too). It looked as if it worked pretty well to me but what would other behaviorist do? I also think a lot of the critics apply too many human emotions to the dogs. Dogs live in the moment and that is what makes them wonderful. I am not saying he is perfect but I think he has been a transformation asset for dogs. Aversives is another word that is thrown his way all the time. I think anything can be called an aversive- I have seen a flat collar and leash used as an aversive. Other behaviorist use them as well.

If anyone has specific examples I would like to talk about those as well. I didn't read as much alst night but I remember seeing Nunu the demon Chihuaha beforehand. Amazing how much was fixed with Nunu being walked and what a commitment to 2 hours a day!


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I too want specific examples of him being cruel or adversive. And I want to take issue with the statement that Havanese don't need behavior modification for the most part. Just go back through this forum and read about the issues members have with their havanese. They are like any other dog--expecially small dogs. And mostly those issues are caused by their owners or allowed to become issues by their owners because they are treated like babies and not dogs. Just to throw out one issue--jumping on company or strangers for attention. Rushing the door when company comes. That behavior would not be tolerated in a large breed dog--yet many havanese owners have this problem. Why? because they allowed it to happen. And Caesar has done many shows on just this specific behavior. Rosie is not ever allowed outside her fenced area off lease because she takes off running to the neighbors house. Some of you have dogs that do this also. And humping--I have read several posts about humping. Every male dog I have ever had was immediately corrected the first time it happened and it was never a problem after two or three corrections. I don't care to explain this to a three year old grandchild. Not all havanese are sensitive either--Rosie sure isn't. Believe me she is not perfect by any means; but she is no different in behavior than any dog I have had in my lifetime--just a whole lot cuter.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

ama0722 said:


> *I just wish those behaviorist who are such harsh critics would take say his example of say "flooding" btw, many call it "exposure" and say what they would do differently. * The episode I remember him flooding the dog was the Great Dane and the tile floor. He exposed the dog and reinforced it but to some this is called flooding (it makes it sound a lot harsher too). It looked as if it worked pretty well to me but what would other behaviorist do? *I also think a lot of the critics apply too many human emotions to the dogs. Dogs live in the moment and that is what makes them wonderful. * I am not saying he is perfect but I think he has been a transformation asset for dogs. Aversives is another word that is thrown his way all the time. I think anything can be called an aversive- I have seen a flat collar and leash used as an aversive. Other behaviorist use them as well.
> 
> If anyone has specific examples I would like to talk about those as well. I didn't read as much alst night but I remember seeing Nunu the demon Chihuaha beforehand. Amazing how much was fixed with Nunu being walked and what a commitment to 2 hours a day!


Wonderfully said Amanda. Bold is in mine. Take the same dog, same problem and tell us what you would do differently. You are very correct in dogs do not have the same emotions as humans and they are creatures of habit.

I almost can't stand Victoria Stillwell as a Positive trainer. She is so negative when there are real issues such as aggression. She uses that loud horn or muzzle more than anything, but does stress exercise and potty outings which are basic for all training. Maybe it's her facial expression that look like she really doesn't like dogs that turn me off.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ama0722 said:


> I remember seeing Nunu the demon Chihuaha beforehand. Amazing how much was fixed with Nunu being walked and what a commitment to 2 hours a day!


Or what about the Rottie who was slated to be euthanized the next day because he was so unpredictable and aggressive with people. The dog ended up being his son's pet. He has also taken several dogs into his pack and given the owners an "easier" dog.

I also think that he has changes since the first episodes... or at least they are showing more of the "softer" stuff, rather than all the pit bulls ready to eat someone. He has recently had MANY segments dealing with small, anxious dogs, handling them very gently, and explaining to their owners that they are NOT aggressive, but afraid, and showing them how to help the dog become more confident.

There isn't very much of his "correction" stuff that we would ever need to do with Kodi, (though we do use "body blocking" to heard him away from the cat when he is standing there barking at her) because as you said about Dora and Dash, we got a good one. For the most part, Kodi turns himself inside out to please us. I just need to learn how to handle and teach him best. If he can figure out what I want, (and he isn't distracted by puppy-ness) he really tries to do it!

But I still watch the show when I get the chance.


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## Perugina (May 28, 2008)

It never ceases to amaze me how people pick dogs or breeds that will never match their energy. Those are the cases where he offered them a different dog. I've never seen anything I thought was harsh or negative in his shows. He does stress calm assertive leadership, and so does Victoria. They both use distractions to move the brain forward. Victoria just happens to use food more often. I like that Cesar adjusts to what the dog needs to move forward.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Luciledodd said:


> I too want specific examples of him being cruel or adversive. And I want to take issue with the statement that Havanese don't need behavior modification for the most part. Just go back through this forum and read about the issues members have with their havanese. They are like any other dog--expecially small dogs. And mostly those issues are caused by their owners or allowed to become issues by their owners because they are treated like babies and not dogs. Just to throw out one issue--jumping on company or strangers for attention. Rushing the door when company comes. That behavior would not be tolerated in a large breed dog--yet many havanese owners have this problem. Why? because they allowed it to happen. And Caesar has done many shows on just this specific behavior. Rosie is not ever allowed outside her fenced area off lease because she takes off running to the neighbors house. Some of you have dogs that do this also. And humping--I have read several posts about humping. Every male dog I have ever had was immediately corrected the first time it happened and it was never a problem after two or three corrections. I don't care to explain this to a three year old grandchild. Not all havanese are sensitive either--Rosie sure isn't. Believe me she is not perfect by any means; but she is no different in behavior than any dog I have had in my lifetime--just a whole lot cuter.


Well, there is certainly one specific time that I can think of when Cesar has gone overboard. The time when he had an (admittedly, incredibly stubborn, but hey, that's the breed) bull dog that he exercised and exercised and challenged with other dogs, and pinned on the ground until the dog's sides were HEAVING, and it was foaming at the mouth. To me, that dog, especially because of the breed involved, looked to me to be WAY too close to physical collapse. Maybe _HE_ could judge closely enough to know he wasn't going to kill this dog, but the average person sure wouldn't. I think he said it took 4 hours to wear the dog down to the point that he gave up. Fortunately, few owners would have the where with all to keep at it for that long. (which is good, because if they COULDN'T judge it well enough they COULD end up killing their dog)

Another time that I thought the force was unnecessary was when a guy who was involved in rescue had (I think the breed was) a Shiba Inu, who he said was great in MANY ways, but he wanted to be able to lay the dog down in the house. I just couldn't see WHY there was a need to force a dog down when he was well behaved in so many ways, but was really uncomfortable with this. The whole segment turned into a huge wrestling match between first Cesar and the dog (with a muzzle on) then with the owner and the dog. I just didn't get that segment at all.

Kodi is not comfortable with me laying him on his side either. (for grooming, not that I've ever tried to pin him as a punishment!) COULD I pin him? Of course. He's a little dog and I'm a big person. What would the point be? To make him submit? Why? He lets me groom him completely, sitting or standing on the washing machine. I am able to keep his long coat mat free even without lying him on his side. So why not let him maintain a position where he is comfortable.

But I have to say that MOST of the times I've seen Cesar get REALLY heavy handed with a dog, it has been a dog that everyone else has given up on. If he can get through to a dog that no one else can, and keep that dog from being euthanized, more power to him.

I don't think that Amanda was suggesting that all Havanese are perfect. But some of us are lucky enough to have found near perfect ones. (and those looking for puppies should take tempermanent SERIOUSLY into consideration when picking a puppy!!!) Temperament DOES make a difference, but then again, some of us work very hard at training our dogs, too.

Finally, NO ONE has said that "Havanese don't need behavior modification". But behavior modification can be reward based or aversive based. (or it can be changing the environment... I think Cesar actually does a LOT of this, but doesn't talk about it in those terms very much) I would venture to say that MOST Havanese learn better, faster and more completely with reward based training than with heavy handed aversive training.

I guess I'm squarely in the middle of the road in regards to Cesar. I don't think he's the be-all and end-all, but neither do I think he's the devil incarnate he's been made out to be by some groups. I guess I keep hoping that people will use their heads and realize that this is "reality TV" fer Heaven's sake. It's meant to be entertainment, or at MOST "edutainment". If you see something that might make sense working with your dog, try it. If it doesn't feel right, don't. But MOST important, if you're not an experienced dog handler, DON'T try to learn to be a trainer from watching ANY TV show... find a competent local trainer to help you learn.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

krandall said:


> I don't think that Amanda was suggesting that all Havanese are perfect.


Not all havanese are perfect, just mine!!! HAHHAHAHA Actually I was meaning I have two nearly perfect dogs and one pretty far from it. If I only had Dora and Dash, I would probably think many thing he does are cruel and I would probably think a lot of people are nuts and don't know how to train their dogs. But luckily my first dog as an adult was a feisty one. So I have tried many different methods for everything. And sometimes I still don't get Belle's choices or thought process. I have also met a lot of havanese that I feel would benefit from his methods especially the exercise part. I know my own dogs do. If I could commit to walking Belle 2 hours a day, she would probably be a cute lap dog too!

I haven't seen the episodes you have talked about so I can't comment. I have only seen a few but I have read his books.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Well said Krandall. One has to remember that some people should not have any animals at all or children for that matter; and we can't do anything about that group of people. I had a protection dog that lasted three days at my house. A terribley expensive domerman that was so well trained that I couldn't believe it. then my 2 year old granddaughter came to visit and we went out in the back yard. I had to fight the dog to get my gd back into the house. I was holding her up as high as possible and kicking him all the way back in. He wan't trying to get me--just the child. I imagine that he was jealous of the child or something. anyway he was on his way back to Nashville the next day. I had sense enough to realize that I couldn't manage this dog. He was given to a man in a wheel chair that had no family or children around. turned out wonderful for the man--not so much for my pocketbook. I then got another one and had the same problem with children. Yes I gave away two expensive dogs the same year. Caesar may have been able to fix both dogs; but I couldn't take any chances with my grandchildren so I didn't even try. Rosie gets away with many things that probably wouldn't be acceptable to others; but they are harmless and mostly funny. I don't want or need the perfect dog--just one that fits in with my lifestyle. But that being said, I have used many of Caesar's techniques with Rosie and it works for me--not my husband. I guess as Caesar would say--husband doesn't project the right energy.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Luciledodd said:


> I don't want or need the perfect dog--just one that fits in with my lifestyle.


You took the words right out of my mouth. I have raised my kids and had committment and responsibility out the ying-yang. I just want to enjoy my dogs. I'm not looking for perfection. I only want a little peace and harmony and work on the things that rock my world.


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## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

Interesting thread. When I got Nala I got all of Cesear's books and was so excited to work with her and be the pack leader and take lots of walks. I was ready to be the pack leader and not let her get out the door first and then I realized she didn't want to go out the door first, or at all. She was too scared and shy. She didn't even like to be out in the open for a walk and would try and walk right next to buildings or wall to avoid being in the open. I then found Ian Dunbar's books to be more helpful for her. And we did lots and lots of play therapy ( I am a pediatric therapist and I thought maybe it would help). I would throw toys and she didn't chase them or play at all. Then I let her chase small bunnies outside and that seemed to trigger her instinct and then she learned to fetch. My husband and I played fetch and tug of war whenever we had time and she is now literally one of the most playful 4 year old dogs I have ever seen. I really contribute all that playing with a lot of her healing and increase in confidence.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

The American Humane Association has had a position statement out for a while, regarding the inappropriate methods used by Cesar Millan. This year they are having a symposium and inviting a number of dog experts from around the world . This is basically a symposium to address these sort of concerns . Cesar agreed to attend and the AHA removed, their position statement from their site. They have however not retracted it. I guess they did it in good faith. 
I wrote them ,to see what was the status of this symposium and too see if our IPDTA could get some representation at this event. Here is her letter to me.
Dear David,

Thank you for your question. While we have not retracted or changed or position asserting that Cesar Millan's training methods are inhumane, our President, George Casey, made the decision to remove the stament from our website as we move forward in planning our Humane Dog Training Symposium. Mr. Millan contacted us and expressed an interest in attending the symposium and has stated that he is open to learning new techniques from trainers that employ humane methods. 
Here' Hoping.

Dena J. Fitzgerald, CAWA

Publications and Communications Manager

American Humane Association

63 Inverness Drive East

Englewood, CO 80112

(ph) 303-925-9453

(cell) 303-323-5206

[email protected]


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

We bought Cesar's "How to Raise the Perfect Dog..." book and literally none of it has been applicable to Roscoe. I learned more from "Puppies For Dummies" when training Maddie as a puppy.

I love Victoria. She is great, and I always learn a new technique on her show. Roscoe starts classes next weekend with a really sweet lady whose philosophy really reminds me of Victoria's. I'm really looking forward to it 

As a side note, I really think people can take Cesar's suggestions too literally. My boyfriend had never had a dog before Roscoe, whereas I grew up with dobermans, have a family Havanese, and had experience with a Shih Tzu/Maltese mix. So, I have caught Tim taking Cesar's methods too far a couple of times, like one time he pinned Roscoe down (not in a hurtful way), but Roscoe cried (for mommy) because he was scared. He is such a sweet, passive boy that he needs positive correction when he is not listening. Unfortunately, people like Tim with little to no previous dog experience don't know how to differentiate between the dog who might need that type of correction versus the type of dog it would just scare.


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

I'm in agreement that his techniques may not be good for all dogs.. Taylor in particular is so submissive and timid that if you did the finger-to-neck thing as a bite she'd probably have a heart attack, roll over and die. 

Capote however is a very dominant dog...if I wasn't aggressive he would try to take his place as pack leader...so from the beginning I've had to growl at him to keep him away from food that isn't his, put him on his side and growl to show him that I'm dominant over him, and press my fingers to his neck like a bite to keep him from misbehaving at certain points; it DEFINITELY works for Capote..... but I'd NEVER do it for Taylor. You really just need to know your dogs..


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

I'm in agreement that his techniques may not be good for all dogs.. Taylor in particular is so submissive and timid that if you did the finger-to-neck thing as a bite she'd probably have a heart attack, roll over and die. 

Capote however is a very dominant dog...if I wasn't aggressive he would try to take his place as pack leader...so from the beginning I've had to growl at him to keep him away from food that isn't his, put him on his side and growl to show him that I'm dominant over him, and press my fingers to his neck like a bite to keep him from misbehaving at certain points; it DEFINITELY works for Capote..... but I'd NEVER do it for Taylor. You really just need to know your dogs..


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

galaxie said:


> We bought Cesar's "How to Raise the Perfect Dog..." book and literally none of it has been applicable to Roscoe. I learned more from "Puppies For Dummies" when training Maddie as a puppy.


I thought Puppies for Dummies was OK, but I REALLY liked two other books much better:

Ian Dunbar's puppy book: "Before and After Getting Your Puppy"
And a book that I found at LL Bean, of all places: "Tao of Puppies - How to Raise and Train a Good Dog Without Really Trying" by Krista Cantrell"

Another good one was: "The Puppy Whisperer - A Compassionate, Nonviolent Guide to Early Training and Care" by Paul Owens and Terrence Cranendock.

Like you, the Cesar book I bought, while entertaining in that it is an autobiography as much as anything else, gave me NO information useful in raising a young puppy. It all had to do with CORRECTING problem behaviors. What I wanted to know was how to RAISE my puppy so that he didn't DEVELOP problem behaviors. Fortunately, we seem to have done that pretty well without Cesar's help.:wink:



galaxie said:


> I love Victoria. She is great, and I always learn a new technique on her show. Roscoe starts classes next weekend with a really sweet lady whose philosophy really reminds me of Victoria's. I'm really looking forward to it


I don't like Victoria Stillwell's show either... WAY too much eye-rolling and a half an hour of listening to her voice is pretty grating. The one I really enjoy watching, when I get the chance, is Zach George... maybe because his training techniques and philosophy seem closest to my own.



galaxie said:


> As a side note, I really think people can take Cesar's suggestions too literally. My boyfriend had never had a dog before Roscoe, whereas I grew up with dobermans, have a family Havanese, and had experience with a Shih Tzu/Maltese mix. So, I have caught Tim taking Cesar's methods too far a couple of times, like one time he pinned Roscoe down (not in a hurtful way), but Roscoe cried (for mommy) because he was scared. He is such a sweet, passive boy that he needs positive correction when he is not listening. Unfortunately, people like Tim with little to no previous dog experience don't know how to differentiate between the dog who might need that type of correction versus the type of dog it would just scare.


Exactly. That and the danger of not differentiating between an adult dog with ingrained "problem behavior" and a puppy, who just hasn't learned any better yet. Even most (note: I said most, not all ) of the tough breed dogs Cesar works with probably wouldn't need the "corrections" Cesar uses if their owners had started early socialization and training, and had kept up with it.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Evye's Mom said:


> You took the words right out of my mouth. I have raised my kids and had committment and responsibility out the ying-yang. I just want to enjoy my dogs. I'm not looking for perfection. I only want a little peace and harmony and work on the things that rock my world.


Same here. I love my dogs, do the best I can with training and they're a part of our family. If someone comes over who doesn't like them or want them around then I'll put them somewhere else for a while. My dogs sure aren't perfect and neither am I. We wanted dogs to have fun with and that's what we're doing!


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

krandall said:


> The one I really enjoy watching, when I get the chance, is Zach George... maybe because his training techniques and philosophy seem closest to my own.


I loooooooove Zak George. He is great!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

galaxie said:


> I loooooooove Zak George. He is great!


Zak George worked at our local Pet Smart just before going to work with Animal Planet. My son and his standard took a basic obedience class with him, he had a dog with some aggression issues that was one of his Frisbee champion. My trainer and I were discussing him just the other day.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Yesterday, I took Rosie outside for a de-matting session. I wasn't hurting her; but she was stressed and kept trying to get away. I realized that this was a whole lot worse on her than a poke (like Caesar). So, I went in and got the scissors and cut out all mats and most of the hair under her arms and belly. she is happy and so am I. I think puppy abuse is what stresses your dog. Rosie doesn't get stressed when corrected or even yelled at; but the grooming thing is getting to her and me.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Luciledodd said:


> Yesterday, I took Rosie outside for a de-matting session. I wasn't hurting her; but she was stressed and kept trying to get away. I realized that this was a whole lot worse on her than a poke (like Caesar). So, I went in and got the scissors and cut out all mats and most of the hair under her arms and belly. she is happy and so am I. I think puppy abuse is what stresses your dog. Rosie doesn't get stressed when corrected or even yelled at; but the grooming thing is getting to her and me.


If the grooming thing is stressing you out, Rosie is going to feel that from you and it'll make her worse about it. If it's stressing you both, why not just get a short cut for now and avoid all the mats? I'm sure she would look very cute and that would make it all easier for both of you.


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## Me+Sydney (Mar 5, 2010)

Luciledodd said:


> Yesterday, I took Rosie outside for a de-matting session. I wasn't hurting her; but she was stressed and kept trying to get away. I realized that this was a whole lot worse on her than a poke (like Caesar). So, I went in and got the scissors and cut out all mats and most of the hair under her arms and belly. she is happy and so am I. I think puppy abuse is what stresses your dog. Rosie doesn't get stressed when corrected or even yelled at; but the grooming thing is getting to her and me.


I came to that conclusion too, following a particularly tough grooming session last week. Sydney goes into the groomer's tomorrow morning and I expect her underside to be shaved - still hoping to salvage the rest of the coat, but at this point, I'd rather just have things cut to avoid the unpleasant detangling for a while.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I am going to use the clippers this weekend and get rid of all the underbelly also. I thought this matting stage was over; but guess not. Clipping all the hair behind the ears also--that is where I was trying to get out--but it is not worth it to her or me.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Luciledodd said:


> I am going to use the clippers this weekend and get rid of all the underbelly also. I thought this matting stage was over; but guess not. Clipping all the hair behind the ears also--that is where I was trying to get out--but it is not worth it to her or me.


I hate to be the one to tell you but if she has a cotton coat I don't think it is ever over. Smarty will get mats so much easier than Galen. Last night her neck was a mess from the collar, and she had several rather large mats from picking up the little cling ons.

I still give my girls treats while grooming.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks I needed that happy thought--I am doomed. You know I got Rosie because they are listed as happy little long-lived dogs with few health issues. If this keeps up she will still be the same little dog but look like that dog that looks like a lamb. LOL I have clippers that I used on the schnauzers--they may come out of retirement before long. Since she is the only one is this town, most people already think she is a sitz.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I just had Scooter clipped down short on his body but left his head and tail longer, it's really cute. She blended the head hair on the back so you don't just see a huge head on a skinny body. He's very curly and mats like crazy so I think this is the cut he'll be in from now on.

Murphy is cottony, his coat looks like Rosie's, and he mats a lot too.  The cleaner he is the better and I just try to brush him every day.  Doesn't always happen but if I keep it up the mats aren't so bad. 

Rosie would be very cute with her head and tail long and body shorter. And if you don't like it.....it will always grow back!


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## KarmaKat (Feb 19, 2010)

We have had Tybee home for 3 weeks now. It didn't take long for us to realize that he is a status seeking pup 

Guess the main thing Milan has done for me is to encourage training and using good energy. 

So I read about having a leader body posture. I walked into our living room with my body straight, chest out, chin up (to impress Tybee in the ex-pen)... and my 11 year old son, who I wasn't even walking that close to, looked up from the tv and questioned, "What?" 

So it worked on Tybee and my son. 

And the quote "a little education is a dangerous thing" comes to mind. 

Hopefully, with all of the animal edutainment on tv, people will research and choose good options.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Luciledodd said:


> Thanks I needed that happy thought--I am doomed. You know I got Rosie because they are listed as happy little long-lived dogs with few health issues. If this keeps up she will still be the same little dog but look like that dog that looks like a lamb. LOL I have clippers that I used on the schnauzers--they may come out of retirement before long. Since she is the only one is this town, most people already think she is a sitz.


That is so funny, I read that the Havanese were a non shedding, with silky easy to care for coats. Not true&#8230;&#8230;.


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## tuggersmom (Oct 16, 2008)

I would like for you to post those things that he does that you don't agree with and for his fans those things that he does that you agree with.[/QUOTE]

I have seen a lot of trainers, especially in my experience with Training and showing german shepherds in obedience, tracking and protection work. I have felt that most trainers picked either too hard (do it or else--you would be shocked what punishment some trainers would do!!) or too soft (cookie trainers) and very few worked from the middle ground. I think Ceaser is a great middle ground trainer. He also comes at the training from a different perspective from most trainers. He doesn't care about what tricks they know, he wants them to be good pack members. He cares that they show respect to the other pack members and other dogs and people the meet. Many, many dogs in obedience classes can heel, come, sit down and even earn obedience titles in a controlled environment. But, many of these dogs are not easy to live with in the real world. I know many that will growl/snap at their owners or owners kids or other people and fight with other dogs but be perfect 'gems' in the ring.

I also like that he teaches about body language in dogs. I wish more people would watch his shows so they could tell what they dog is conveying, especially at dog parks. I get so tired of seeing dominant dogs, trying to mount every dog at the park and the owners laughing it off...until another dog has issue with it. I am especially cautious with dogs going into prey mode especially when I have the little dog. I always step in when I see the ears forward, tail low, crouching, intense eyes, and the growl chase. And other owners will say "he is just playing!!" - not with my dog! The funny thing now is that Tugger knows now when the other dog is not playing and he will not run but walk over to me.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Tuggers Mom: Really good answer. Those are the things that I like also. My mom used to have chihuahuas when I was a girl (many years ago). They were just like those that he is always "fixing". Really he is showing the owners what they have done wrong and how to reclaim their pack leader status. I think that when he says dogs will take on the pack leader role if they have to is correct; but they are not happy little dogs--just nervous (can you see them shaking all the time?) little dogs. Rosie only shakes at the Vet and I can't blame her.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

tuggersmom said:


> *Many, many dogs in obedience classes can heel, come, sit down and even earn obedience titles in a controlled environment. But, many of these dogs are not easy to live with in the real world. * .


Tugger's Mom, I agree with all you are saying other than I do not think of Cesar as a trainer as much as someone who understands what is happening and gives the owner the guidance to correct the problems. In fact, I have never heard him refer to himself as a trainer.

Your statement above is exactly what my trainer is always telling me. I have one of those dogs that can go into a ring, come out a winner but has had some issues in the real world that we are working on now.


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