# teaching come



## Jennifer C (Oct 16, 2018)

I've heard that puppies typically want to be where you are. Is that always true? Our new pup comes when called maybe 5% of the time. He does like to play fetch and tug with us, but he wags his tail only when we come home. If i call him, he just stares at me. We're trying to use a leash a lot, otherwise he will run when we go to pick him up sometimes. Is all that normal 3 month old puppy behaviors?


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## Sam I Am (Aug 26, 2018)

Hi Jennifer, ours is 21 weeks & at 3 months she was far busier trying to know everything about her surroundings than being too worried about us. Now she is wanting to give loving & get loving, & lots of kisses, although still busy. The thing about these guys over other pups we have had is the happiness factor, always happy, with that happy little bouncing gait (when they are not zooming!) We have her x pen in the living room where she stays at night, & when we are gone, or she needs to chill. I was just about ready to bring her in the bedroom at night, as her housebreaking & run of the house was going really well, when she took a dump under the desk in the den. She had gone there once before, her only other dump mistake, so for now, keeping the x pen going. She sleeps by my feet in the living room, preferring that to the couch because she feels more captive on the couch I think. Got her a soft, furry bed at TJ Maxx yesterday, which she is now using on the floor after first thinking it was a giant toy. Things keep getting better, so hang in there.


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## Jennifer C (Oct 16, 2018)

Thanks for the encouragement! This is my first puppy, so it's hard to know what to expect. I've only had older dogs.


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## Sam I Am (Aug 26, 2018)

Jennifer C said:


> Thanks for the encouragement! This is my first puppy, so it's hard to know what to expect. I've only had older dogs.


Well, you jumped in with both feet on this puppy then!! Heh. I have always raised from a puppy, & this one was more challenging than the other bigger breeds. Maybe I think that because my last puppy was 10 years ago, could be, eh? Anyway, she's worth it, wouldn't change a thing. This is my first small dog, & I really enjoy being able to pick her up, plus I don't worry about her being aggressive with people, kids, or other animals. I always had that concern in the past.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

he doesn't understand the word "come" here's a good article https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_9/features/Training-A-Fast-Reliable-Recall_20603-1.html


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## Jennifer C (Oct 16, 2018)

Good article. I'll read it over again and try putting it into practice. By what age should pups be coming consistently when called? I'm wondering if I'm trying to train him too young to do too many things.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jennifer C said:


> Good article. I'll read it over again and try putting it into practice. By what age should pups be coming consistently when called? I'm wondering if I'm trying to train him too young to do too many things.


Many good breeders start some training with puppies before they even go home to their new owners. So it is NOT too early to be training. All of mine were in regular training by 8-9 weeks.

As far as a CONFIRMED recall is concerned, ESPECIALLY in a situation where you are calling them away from something interesting, it will be AT LEAST a year of DAILY errorless practice before you have a reliable recall. For some, even with regular, consistent practice, it's longer than that. For some BREEDS (mostly hounds, because they are BRED to follow their eyes or nose) some of them NEVER have a reliable recall in the open. And even with the ones that do, it's a skill that you have to keep brushing up on for a life time.


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## GlenK (Feb 9, 2016)

I found a trainer I really like: Zak George. His enthusiasm is really good. Can't get the video to show up but search him in YouTube.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

GlenK said:


> I found a trainer I really like: Zak George. His enthusiasm is really good. Can't get the video to show up but search him in YouTube.


He's pretty good, and certainly positive. I like Kikopup even better. She is an excellent trainer (better than Zak George, IMO) and her videos are extremely clear and methodical.


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## GlenK (Feb 9, 2016)

I've seen hers videos too but I just like Zac better.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

GlenK said:


> I've seen hers videos too but I just like Zac better.


The problem is, you might like his personality better, but his training is very imprecise. The more clear your training is, the faster your dog will learn.


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## GlenK (Feb 9, 2016)

Thank you but my dog has done just fine using his techniques. Too each their own!!!


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## lolo1 (Jul 24, 2018)

I think its good to start training young..these puppies have so much energy and enthusiasm and the interaction between you and your puppy is very important...I’ve been training Jack since 8 weeks; he is 21 weeks now and as far as “commands” go he will respond 90% of the time to sit without any treat and even in a distracting situation, but the other commands are more shaky...I think the videos can be misleading by insinuating that consistent response to commands can be taught in minutes, when in fact as another poster said, this is a long process of daily training. However, at 8 weeks Jack knew nothing of us, words, the world, people, noises, leash or harness, grooming, teeth brushing, vet visits, etc. and by focusing on socialization and getting him on a schedule and introducing things slowly he has learned a tremendous amount besides commands..I think its good not to expect too much, but I definitely struggled in the beginning trying to figure things out with him, so hang in there!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lolo1 said:


> I think its good to start training young..these puppies have so much energy and enthusiasm and the interaction between you and your puppy is very important...I've been training Jack since 8 weeks; he is 21 weeks now and as far as "commands" go he will respond 90% of the time to sit without any treat and even in a distracting situation, but the other commands are more shaky...I think the videos can be misleading by insinuating that consistent response to commands can be taught in minutes, when in fact as another poster said, this is a long process of daily training. However, at 8 weeks Jack knew nothing of us, words, the world, people, noises, leash or harness, grooming, teeth brushing, vet visits, etc. and by focusing on socialization and getting him on a schedule and introducing things slowly he has learned a tremendous amount besides commands..I think its good not to expect too much, but I definitely struggled in the beginning trying to figure things out with him, so hang in there!!!


Very good point! Little puppies are LEARNING almost every minute that they are awake... all day long. Sometimes we forget that they need to learn the whole world!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I can get any puppy we've ever raised to come, even if I haven't seen it for some number of years. Starting early, every time I put food down, I make sure they hear me call ''PUP EEZ", in a happy, sing song type voice before they can even see me. It doesn't take but a few repetitions of this, and they come running with wagging tails, and happy faces. You may have seen one of the puppy videos where a whole litter comes running to my call.

If we are keeping one, the PUP EEZ gets changed to their name, but in the same voice. I don't remember one not coming running from the next room to that voice, even with the word changed. I start by doing it when feeding, the same that I did when I taught them the puppy call. They always get an extra reward of praise, and petting. Going from feeding time, the next time I start doing it is outside, while in a happy play session. The word "come" is not added until much later, so really, this first lesson is teaching them their name, and come at the same time.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> I can get any puppy we've ever raised to come, even if I haven't seen it for some number of years. Starting early, every time I put food down, I make sure they hear me call ''PUP EEZ", in a happy, sing song type voice before they can even see me. It doesn't take but a few repetitions of this, and they come running with wagging tails, and happy faces. You may have seen one of the puppy videos where a whole litter comes running to my call.
> 
> If we are keeping one, the PUP EEZ gets changed to their name, but in the same voice. I don't remember one not coming running from the next room to that voice, even with the word changed. I start by doing it when feeding, the same that I did when I taught them the puppy call. They always get an extra reward of praise, and petting. Going from feeding time, the next time I start doing it is outside, while in a happy play session. The word "come" is not added until much later, so really, this first lesson is teaching them their name, and come at the same time.


Yup! My "emergency" recall is "Want Chicken?!?!" LOL!

I think many people make the mistake of trying to use a recall in a situation where it either ends the puppy's fun, or they are trying to interrupt something MUCH more rewarding.

I never EVER try to call Kodi when he's making a bee-line for a pile of horse manure... I KNOW I'll lose that one, and he'd just learn that he doesn't ALWAYS have to come when I call.  (the girls are less manure-obsessed.  )


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## cishepard (Apr 8, 2018)

I have a ‘saved for an emergency” recall command, as well. “DOG DINNER!!!” Never fails : )


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

cishepard said:


> I have a 'saved for an emergency" recall command, as well. "DOG DINNER!!!" Never fails : )


Love it!


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## cishepard (Apr 8, 2018)

krandall said:


> Love it!


Of course, then I have to cough up their meal, or it will lose all credibility ...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

cishepard said:


> Of course, then I have to cough up their meal, or it will lose all credibility ...


Ha! But for those "emergency" recalls, that's a small price to pay!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I


GlenK said:


> I found a trainer I really like: Zak George. His enthusiasm is really good. Can't get the video to show up but search him in YouTube.





krandall said:


> He's pretty good, and certainly positive. I like Kikopup even better. She is an excellent trainer (better than Zak George, IMO) and her videos are extremely clear and methodical.





GlenK said:


> I've seen hers videos too but I just like Zac better.





krandall said:


> The problem is, you might like his personality better, but his training is very imprecise. The more clear your training is, the faster your dog will learn.


I think a lot of the difference in preference is due to individual learning and communication styles. Sometimes even if the training isn't as systematic, it might make more sense to one person because they are following key words that click with them or something in the body language clicks more clearly. For this reason I find it really helpful to revisit skills our dog has learned over and over. It seems like I understand with greater depth when I continue to revisit a skill with a new perspective, training video, or game. Even when I think it's been mastered, it always seems to provide clarity I didn't know was missing.

I watched several of the Zac videos when we brought our puppy home, and even though his potty training videos were certainly simpler, watching him go through the steps, especially with the tether, was really valuable to me. They are also short and he has a really animated personality so I could show them to my kids so they knew what we were working on without information overload since they weren't the primary trainers. Later when we were having an issue with our puppy peeing in one place that was too far from the inside potty and on the way outside, I came across the Kikopup videos here on the forum. Her clear description of what to do was exactly what I needed. She does an excellent job of breaking down behaviors and providing specific steps to follow. However, it was also helpful that I already had a visual foundation in my mind to provide context. I sent the same Kikopup video to my husband and he was like, "Ohh, okay." He was not a fan of the Zac videos and may have possible made fun of them a few times (good naturedly, of course).

This is one of the reasons I love to come back to the forum all of the time - there's a lot of repetition of information, partly because generally we hold the same values when it comes to positive training - but every once in a while someone says something slightly differently and it's like, "Ah-ha!" I can give probably 20 examples of this from the last year!


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

I just want to add that turning and running away from Kosmo while shaking a bag of treats and shouting encouragement really did help me to teach him recall.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Marni said:


> I just want to add that turning and running away from Kosmo while shaking a bag of treats and shouting encouragement really did help me to teach him recall.


It's not a great way to TEACH a recall, but it's an excellent way to deal with an "emergency"!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Marni said:


> I just want to add that turning and running away from Kosmo while shaking a bag of treats and shouting encouragement really did help me to teach him recall.


Well I don't know why but I'm just picturing a dog having a bag of treats shaken and then the fascination and glee when the person runs with it and somehow it's hysterical to me right now. I think it's early and I'm tired.

Our dog comes any time he hears a crinkly wrapper of any kind so maybe that's why I find it so entertaining,


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Well I don't know why but I'm just picturing a dog having a bag of treats shaken and then the fascination and glee when the person runs with it and somehow it's hysterical to me right now. I think it's early and I'm tired.
> 
> Our dog comes any time he hears a crinkly wrapper of any kind so maybe that's why I find it so entertaining,


Kodi goes running if he hears Dave getting something out of the fruit bowl. He's our "fruitivore".


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

Kosmo was running down the street of our subdivision when it happened, one 5am last winter, and folks outdoor security lights were blinking on as we ran past. As Karen correctly sussed out, it was an emergency. Shaking the bag of treats and begging only got me a glance over the shoulder and a black lipped Havanese smile. When I turned away and started running and laughing in the direction of our place, he was at my ankles in no time. 

He is much better at recall now, but I now really do call him in the tone of voice to suggest cake and candles are in the next room. Urgency in my tone gets me nowhere with him, and yet works fine with Zoey.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Marni said:


> Kosmo was running down the street of our subdivision when it happened, one 5am last winter, and folks outdoor security lights were blinking on as we ran past. As Karen correctly sussed out, it was an emergency. Shaking the bag of treats and begging only got me a glance over the shoulder and a black lipped Havanese smile. When I turned away and started running and laughing in the direction of our place, he was at my ankles in no time.
> 
> He is much better at recall now, but I now really do call him in the tone of voice to suggest cake and candles are in the next room. Urgency in my tone gets me nowhere with him, and yet works fine with Zoey.


Panda is the "troublemaker" in that regard among ours... She has an excellent recall in the obedience ring, and is pretty reliable EXCEPT if she decides to make a game out of it. But I've found a way to "out-game" her. I get a small, COMPLETELY closed plastic container of treats, and throw it at an angle TOWARD her, but far enough away that she needs to run to it. I tell her to "Go get it!!!" which, of course, she's happy to do. But without thumbs, she can't open the container, so she has to wait for me to arrive. I make a BIG show of getting out some cookies for her, then I close it up and throw it again. And again. By then she is totally "in the game" and will just follow me the rest of the way back to the house, which was MY goal to start with. ...Except SHE thinks SHE won.


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## cishepard (Apr 8, 2018)

krandall said:


> Panda is the "troublemaker" in that regard among ours... She has an excellent recall in the obedience ring, and is pretty reliable EXCEPT if she decides to make a game out of it. But I've found a way to "out-game" her. I get a small, COMPLETELY closed plastic container of treats, and throw it at an angle TOWARD her, but far enough away that she needs to run to it. I tell her to "Go get it!!!" which, of course, she's happy to do. But without thumbs, she can't open the container, so she has to wait for me to arrive. I make a BIG show of getting out some cookies for her, then I close it up and throw it again. And again. By then she is totally "in the game" and will just follow me the rest of the way back to the house, which was MY goal to start with. ...Except SHE thinks SHE won.


Oooh, that's a good one!

One of my problems is that in recent years my neighbourhood has been overrun by feral rabbits, which drives Mitzi (my MinPin) crazy. She will run out the door when my husband, who is less than careful, opens it and will not return. Even with "dog dinner!". Fortunately, when she was young, she had a facination with bugs and I got into the habit of calling her with the words, "Mitzi, look!" whenever I saw a bug for her to play with and also birds for her to chase, squirrels etc. in the yard, even food dropped on the floor and spills for her to lick up in the house. She will look where I am pointing and race over to see.

I have successfully used that trick a couple times when she would be off in the neighbourhood after rabbits, pointing to the open gate of our yard. Of course, this could end at anytime, if she starts to suspect there will be nothing there for her to see. I may have to teach the cookies in a can trick for future escapes : )


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

cishepard said:


> Oooh, that's a good one!
> 
> One of my problems is that in recent years my neighbourhood has been overrun by feral rabbits, which drives Mitzi (my MinPin) crazy. She will run out the door when my husband, who is less than careful, opens it and will not return. Even with "dog dinner!". Fortunately, when she was young, she had a facination with bugs and I got into the habit of calling her with the words, "Mitzi, look!" whenever I saw a bug for her to play with and also birds for her to chase, squirrels etc. in the yard, even food dropped on the floor and spills for her to lick up in the house. She will look where I am pointing and race over to see.
> 
> I have successfully used that trick a couple times when she would be off in the neighbourhood after rabbits, pointing to the open gate of our yard. Of course, this could end at anytime, if she starts to suspect there will be nothing there for her to see. I may have to teach the cookies in a can trick for future escapes : )


There is a hollow under our back patio concrete where the ground has settled and I'm certain there are mice or something living under there. It's making me crazy because I like to take him out to go potty at unscheduled times if we're getting in the car or something and if he doesn't have to go really bad he'll just sniff around and inspect whatever is under there that I can't see. Usually if I take him to grass and tell him to go potty he'll at least try to go, and even squeeze out a drop or two. But wild creatures demand way more attention than me!

I always take him out on leash because part of our yard isn't fenced, but on rare occasions he has escaped when someone is bringing in groceries or something. He always runs to the same places, and he always watches to make sure someone is coming. Once when DD wasn't home he ran straight to the dog park in our neighborhood. He looked around and then ran to the field at the school, which is right down the straight and the other place they play together a lot. He looked around again, and then he just stood there and waited for me to come and get him. I swear he was looking for her! It made me wonder if he imagines whenever she's not home she's at the dog park playing by herself, haha.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

cishepard said:


> Oooh, that's a good one!
> 
> One of my problems is that in recent years my neighbourhood has been overrun by feral rabbits, which drives Mitzi (my MinPin) crazy. She will run out the door when my husband, who is less than careful, opens it and will not return. Even with "dog dinner!". Fortunately, when she was young, she had a facination with bugs and I got into the habit of calling her with the words, "Mitzi, look!" whenever I saw a bug for her to play with and also birds for her to chase, squirrels etc. in the yard, even food dropped on the floor and spills for her to lick up in the house. She will look where I am pointing and race over to see.
> 
> I have successfully used that trick a couple times when she would be off in the neighbourhood after rabbits, pointing to the open gate of our yard. Of course, this could end at anytime, if she starts to suspect there will be nothing there for her to see. I may have to teach the cookies in a can trick for future escapes : )


I've always said, anyone who owns a Min Pin better have a sense of humor! LOL!

Pixel is VERY gullible about "joining up" to examine something in the grass. She doesn't play "keep away" like Panda will if given the opportunity, but she can be pretty much "I'll come when I'm ready!" about it. But she will NEVER get out of sight, so if you bend WAY over, and make a big deal about examining something REALLY INTERESTING on the ground... She.can't.help.herself. She HAS to come see what it is. Then I talk to her about it, while continuing my "examination" with her help. She takes this VERY seriously. When we have thoroughly examined "the spot", I skritch her back and pick her up. She is SO happy to have spent this "moment" with you, that she is completely happy to go back in the dog yard or the house.

Panda isn't that gullible. She wants "the goods". LOL! Seriously, I think the difference may be that I've done some nosework with Pixel, so she understands that game, where Panda doesn't really.


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## Jeanniek (Mar 20, 2018)

krandall said:


> I've always said, anyone who owns a Min Pin better have a sense of humor! LOL!
> 
> Pixel is VERY gullible about "joining up" to examine something in the grass. She doesn't play "keep away" like Panda will if given the opportunity, but she can be pretty much "I'll come when I'm ready!" about it. But she will NEVER get out of sight, so if you bend WAY over, and make a big deal about examining something REALLY INTERESTING on the ground... She.can't.help.herself. She HAS to come see what it is. Then I talk to her about it, while continuing my "examination" with her help. She takes this VERY seriously. When we have thoroughly examined "the spot", I skritch her back and pick her up. She is SO happy to have spent this "moment" with you, that she is completely happy to go back in the dog yard or the house.
> 
> Panda isn't that gullible. She wants "the goods". LOL! Seriously, I think the difference may be that I've done some nosework with Pixel, so she understands that game, where Panda doesn't really.


Oooh! I like this! Zumba has to smell EVERYTHING she encounters on our walks and 80% of that, it seems, has to end up in her mouth. It drives me crazy. I think I am taking the wrong approach. I need to embrace this with her and check everything out with her. Don't know how well we will do with the potty walk, but at least it will be more fun for the both of us. And i may have a future nosework dog in the making!


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## Patti (Apr 19, 2018)

Yes! We noticed this with Merry when we first brought her home. She wanted to sniff Everything! Whoa! What was THAT smell???? So we did sign her up for nosework and she absolutely loves it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jeanniek said:


> Oooh! I like this! Zumba has to smell EVERYTHING she encounters on our walks and 80% of that, it seems, has to end up in her mouth. It drives me crazy. I think I am taking the wrong approach. I need to embrace this with her and check everything out with her. Don't know how well we will do with the potty walk, but at least it will be more fun for the both of us. And i may have a future nosework dog in the making!


Well, Zumba is still a young puppy, so that's different from an adult dog anyway. But I don't "walk" when pottying my dogs. Ever. I go to an appropriate place, stand there and say "go potty". They have as much freedom as the 6' leash allows. That's it. I allow them to sniff around and decide where they want to go in that radius, but I find, especially with puppies, that they are like butterflies, and like to flit from one interesting smell to another, COMPLETELY forgetting what they are supposed to be doing.

Some dogs also quickly learn that once they potty, the fun is over, and they are taken back inside. So if that is the message they are getting, they are going to put it off as long as possible. My guys are always pottied BEFORE we go on a walk or get in the car. Not to say they never go again on a long walk, but we don't "walk to potty", so they know they better take care of business, or the fun stuff isn't going to happen.


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## Jeanniek (Mar 20, 2018)

krandall said:


> Well, Zumba is still a young puppy, so that's different from an adult dog anyway. But I don't "walk" when pottying my dogs. Ever. I go to an appropriate place, stand there and say "go potty". They have as much freedom as the 6' leash allows. That's it. I allow them to sniff around and decide where they want to go in that radius, but I find, especially with puppies, that they are like butterflies, and like to flit from one interesting smell to another, COMPLETELY forgetting what they are supposed to be doing.
> 
> Some dogs also quickly learn that once they potty, the fun is over, and they are taken back inside. So if that is the message they are getting, they are going to put it off as long as possible. My guys are always pottied BEFORE we go on a walk or get in the car. Not to say they never go again on a long walk, but we don't "walk to potty", so they know they better take care of business, or the fun stuff isn't going to happen.


Yes, I have read that. So our potty walks is she pretty much takes care of business fairly quickly in our front yard and then we go for our walk. I like to get down the lane where the horses are at, but Zumba is just too entertained with everything else so we have only made it that far (which is not too farJ once. When we turn to go back home, I tell Zumba, "Let's go home!" And then we both run home. I would prefer if she didnt dally so much so that I would have a bit more road to run back on.

I did stop and check out her spots with her today. I think she didn't consider that as much fun. She wanted to turn back to go home fairly quickly. Lol!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jeanniek said:


> Yes, I have read that. So our potty walks is she pretty much takes care of business fairly quickly in our front yard and then we go for our walk. I like to get down the lane where the horses are at, but Zumba is just too entertained with everything else so we have only made it that far (which is not too farJ once. When we turn to go back home, I tell Zumba, "Let's go home!" And then we both run home. I would prefer if she didn't dally so much so that I would have a bit more road to run back on.
> 
> I did stop and check out her spots with her today. I think she didn't consider that as much fun. She wanted to turn back to go home fairly quickly. Lol!


Be careful of running with her at this stage... I can't remember her age, but I don't think she's very old yet, right? You can do damage to their bones and joints running them too far or on hard surfaces. The other problem is that if you get her to hyped up about the "coming home" part, she is likely to want to turn sooner and sooner (because the running is fun!) and then if you DON'T let her run, she is likely to start pulling on the leash. I know she probably seems to be having a blast running with you, but she doesn't know what is good or bad for her, so you have to make those decisions.

It's great that you are getting her to potty before you head off on your sniff walk!  It could just be that she's too young to enjoy "communal sniffing". But as I said, Panda isn't all that interested in it either. So it seems to be that some get more of a kick out of it than others!


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