# Matting in Undercoat seems worse since first full groom…



## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

I have been combing, bathing and grooming our Ivy since bringing her home at 8 weeks. She has done well, and has had very few mats that have been easily removed with gentle use of a dematting comb. I read early on that one shouldn’t use a round tipped pinned brush or a slicker brush with straight pins because they can damage the hair shafts on Havanese, so I’ve avoided them and only use a toothed comb to thoroughly comb through to the undercoat as well. We recently took her for her first full groom, and she came out having done great and looking good. Feeling silky and soft. But it wasn’t long before we began noticing several mats developing in the undercoat near the skin. She continues to have mats all over, and they obviously irritate her, and it’s been quite the job to try to remove a few each day. We don’t want her to have to face dematting everyday. Or itching and having to bite at the mats when they bother her.
Our question is… are there certain products, or grooming tools that can worsen tendencies for matting? What is the best approach for avoiding matting? We are not keeping Ivy in full coat. She is in a 3 inch coat, with trimmed shaped face. Our groomer uses OMG grooming spray by Plush Puppy. We know we will always deal with a couple mats here and there, but we definitely don’t want her uncomfortable due to many mats all the time. The other thing that could be playing a part here is… Ivy is almost ten months old and I’ve read about “blowing coat”, which I’m not sure what this really means. Could this be a reason for all the matting suddenly in the past couple weeks? Tips and tricks from experienced Havanese owners are sooo welcome! Please help!


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

I suspect that the mats you are seeing are due to cost blowing which is the transition from her puppy coat to her adult coat. For the next several months you will need to be very diligent about combing down to the skin multiple times a day. Many folks opt for a shorter puppy cut during this time which can help reduce the amount of time working through the mats but not really the need to check for mats forming. Once this transition is done Ivy’s coat will again be considerably easier to manage.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I think you’re right, she’s probably blowing coat! Since you’ve been grooming her regularly with a comb since she was little, she probably tolerates it well and will be okay with more frequent combing. It’s pretty fast to comb each day once you’re in the routine, especially compared to dematting, and since she’s in a long puppy cut. A lot of people cut them even shorter for this stage. 

I think puppies experience blowing coat differently - Sundance seemed to blow coat for a long time. But only a few weeks here and there were bad with mats as long as I combed each day because I found problem areas quickly. He went long stretches where I thought he was done and then there’d be a few weeks of trouble around his tail or something. He was accidentally cut short at the beginning but he grows fast and was about 3-4” at the worst points and it was manageable. He has a dense coat, though, so I think if he had blown all at once all over like some puppies do I would have needed to cut him shorter.

If you start to notice particular problem areas you could brush those areas in between combing. Brushing doesn’t work well to get out mats or replace a comb but I do think it’s helpful in preventing them. I used a brush right after i took his harness off in the areas where it rubs.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

At 10 months, she is almost certainly starting to blow coat. This is likely to continue for a number of months. Keeping the coat clean and well conditioned (at least weekly) will help, but at least daily, THOROUGH comb-outs will be needed, and you will, indeed, be finding mats daily. I soak them generously in Ice on Ice, hold the hair between the skin and the mat with my fingers, and gently work away at the mat with a single tooth at the end of the comb. On big mats, I will break it up first by slicing through the mat vertically, (pulling away from the skin) with the blade of very sharp shears. For mats in very tender areas, especially areas that don’t show, like arm pits, groin, or on the belly, I don’t fight with them, I just snip or shave the mat out. No one can see it anyway.

And remember, blowing coat is not the same for all dogs. I’ve had one “medium” one, two super easy ones, and one that was bad enough that I cut her down at a year, and decided that I’d let her grow out again after she finished blowing coat. Turns out, she was so cute cut down, we’ve kept her that way!!! But the point is, there is absolutely NO SHAME in crying uncle if a coat becomes too difficult to manage during blowing coat. Breeders and professional show people do it all the time if a show puppy has a too-difficult coat. They simply take the puppy out of the ring, cut them down, and wait for the coat to grow back in after the puppy finishes blowing coat! It does NOT make you a failure! It makes you a kind owner, who doesn’t want to hurt their puppy!!!

The important thing to keep in mind is that it iis FAR better to make that decision BEFORE the puppy is matted to the skin, and the groomer tells you that the only option is to totally shave the dog naked. Which is what will happen if you bring a matted dog in to the groomer. Even this will grow out, of course, but WE will hear from you, with the sad story, and the photos of the skinned-like-a-rat puppy,  So just make a decision before it gets away from you… either buckle up for a LOT of work or cut her down before she gets in trouble!


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

Pucks104 said:


> I suspect that the mats you are seeing are due to cost blowing which is the transition from her puppy coat to her adult coat. For the next several months you will need to be very diligent about combing down to the skin multiple times a day. Many folks opt for a shorter puppy cut during this time which can help reduce the amount of time working through the mats but not really the need to check for mats forming. Once this transition is done Ivy’s coat will again be considerably easier to manage.


Thank you for your thoughts and recommendations! It has been a difficult time, not really knowing how to handle this stage. I try to comb through every day, but there seems to be new mats every day… And some are very difficult to get out, so I haven’t been successful.


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

krandall said:


> At 10 months, she is almost certainly starting to blow coat. This is likely to continue for a number of months. Keeping the coat clean and well conditioned (at least weekly) will help, but at least daily, THOROUGH comb-outs will be needed, and you will, indeed, be finding mats daily. I soak them generously in Ice on Ice, hold the hair between the skin and the mat with my fingers, and gently work away at the mat with a single tooth at the end of the comb. On big mats, I will break it up first by slicing through the mat vertically, (pulling away from the skin) with the blade of very sharp shears. For mats in very tender areas, especially areas that don’t show, like arm pits, groin, or on the belly, I don’t fight with them, I just snip or shave the mat out. No one can see it anyway.
> 
> And remember, blowing coat is not the same for all dogs. I’ve had one “medium” one, two super easy ones, and one that was bad enough that I cut her down at a year, and decided that I’d let her grow out again after she finished blowing coat. Turns out, she was so cute cut down, we’ve kept her that way!!! But the point is, there is absolutely NO SHAME in crying uncle if a coat becomes too difficult to manage during blowing coat. Breeders and professional show people do it all the time if a show puppy has a too-difficult coat. They simply take the puppy out of the ring, cut them down, and wait for the coat to grow back in after the puppy finishes blowing coat! It does NOT make you a failure! It makes you a kind owner, who doesn’t want to hurt their puppy!!!
> 
> The important thing to keep in mind is that it iis FAR better to make that decision BEFORE the puppy is matted to the skin, and the groomer tells you that the only option is to totally shave the dog naked. Which is what will happen if you bring a matted dog in to the groomer. Even this will grow out, of course, but WE will hear from you, with the sad story, and the photos of the skinned-like-a-rat puppy,  So just make a decision before it gets away from you… either buckle up for a LOT of work or cut her down before she gets in trouble!


I really appreciate all the information you have taken the time to share with me! Ivy is our first Havanese, and though we have had a small dog before for 17 years (Bichon/shitzhu/Yorkie cross), we have not experienced this matting problem before. I thought I was being so diligent in keeping her combed regularly and getting her comfortable with grooming etc. It makes me so sad to see how her coat has become so difficult to manage because I really feel for her and how uncomfortable it is to have me trying to work out mats every day. It seems there are new ones every day. And some of the mats have been too difficult for me to get totally out, and I am afraid to cut them out, for fear she will have big spots in her coat that are quite short. Where they shaved her front leg when she was spayed at 6.5 months has still not grown in completely. The big problem areas we are finding are the sides of her neck and behind/below/under her ears, and the arm pit areas. She seems to have quite a thick coat, and it is quite soft, flowy and silky on most of her body, except for the last third of her back, leading towards her tail area. That area is more wiry in texture. This morning I took your advice and just tried to pick away at some of the mats with just the end tooth on my comb, and that did work fairly well. I wonder if the dematting comb actually makes the situation worse?? It does tear through mats, in a sharper way than the end tooth of a comb, but I wonder if the cutting or shredding of the fur makes that area even more vulnerable afterwards to rematting. I am not experienced enough to really know I guess. I think I will try the comb only for a little while. And look into getting a good detangler. I can’t find the Ice on Ice in any of our shops here. The other problem is some of her mats around her ear area are pretty close to the skin at this point and it is a sensitive area for her. It is hard to get a hold between the skin and the mat to protect her, as there just Isn’t much there that isn’t matted. These have been extra difficult areas to keep free of mats. She is booked to go to the groomer in a few days and I worry about how that will go. I am trying so hard to get as many mats out as possible before she goes. I think it will be better if we take her a little shorter this time for a little while, as you’ve suggested. We live in quite a cold winter climate in Canada, so we really do not want to have her really short and definitely not shaved. This has become quite stressful 🥹for us as a family, which may sound ridiculous, but we don’t like the thought of her being uncomfortable and we know mats are uncomfortable, and getting them out is even more uncomfortable. We face this daily now, and just need to find some relief from the situation for her and for us. 😊


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

Pucks104 said:


> I suspect that the mats you are seeing are due to cost blowing which is the transition from her puppy coat to her adult coat. For the next several months you will need to be very diligent about combing down to the skin multiple times a day. Many folks opt for a shorter puppy cut during this time which can help reduce the amount of time working through the mats but not really the need to check for mats forming. Once this transition is done Ivy’s coat will again be considerably easier to manage.


From the thoughtful responses I have received here, for which I am very grateful, I think you are right. This seemingly sudden onset of excessive matting is likely due to Ivy’s coat blowing. I am hopeful that you are right in that after this transitional time, her coat will once again become easier to manage. It was much easier to manage prior to this, and our regular grooming has not changed. I only hope that this change in her coat does not take too many months to finish, as it continues to be quite challenging!


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I think you’re right, she’s probably blowing coat! Since you’ve been grooming her regularly with a comb since she was little, she probably tolerates it well and will be okay with more frequent combing. It’s pretty fast to comb each day once you’re in the routine, especially compared to dematting, and since she’s in a long puppy cut. A lot of people cut them even shorter for this stage.
> 
> I think puppies experience blowing coat differently - Sundance seemed to blow coat for a long time. But only a few weeks here and there were bad with mats as long as I combed each day because I found problem areas quickly. He went long stretches where I thought he was done and then there’d be a few weeks of trouble around his tail or something. He was accidentally cut short at the beginning but he grows fast and was about 3-4” at the worst points and it was manageable. He has a dense coat, though, so I think if he had blown all at once all over like some puppies do I would have needed to cut him shorter.
> 
> If you start to notice particular problem areas you could brush those areas in between combing. Brushing doesn’t work well to get out mats or replace a comb but I do think it’s helpful in preventing them. I used a brush right after i took his harness off in the areas where it rubs.


Yes, it seems that Ivy is blowing coat all over, all at once. And even working on mats every day hasn’t enabled us to keep up with them all. I am careful not to put her through too much of that each day. We usually work on a few mats each day and then comb out the rest of her. Which means that from one day to the next, there are always some mats left. It’s just too much for her to work them all out everyday… Even when we break it up and only work on them for 5 to 10 minutes at a time, a few times through each day. I will admit …it is quite a frustrating thing for her and me.😫


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Ivy’s Momma said:


> Yes, it seems that Ivy is blowing coat all over, all at once. And even working on mats every day hasn’t enabled us to keep up with them all. I am careful not to put her through too much of that each day. We usually work on a few mats each day and then comb out the rest of her. Which means that from one day to the next, there are always some mats left. It’s just too much for her to work them all out everyday… Even when we break it up and only work on them for 5 to 10 minutes at a time, a few times through each day. I will admit …it is quite a frustrating thing for her and me.😫


Coat blowing is challenging and there is nothing wrong with a short puppy cut for a few months until it passes.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Ivy’s Momma said:


> Yes, it seems that Ivy is blowing coat all over, all at once. And even working on mats every day hasn’t enabled us to keep up with them all. I am careful not to put her through too much of that each day. We usually work on a few mats each day and then comb out the rest of her. Which means that from one day to the next, there are always some mats left. It’s just too much for her to work them all out everyday… Even when we break it up and only work on them for 5 to 10 minutes at a time, a few times through each day. I will admit …it is quite a frustrating thing for her and me.😫


I hear your pain Ivy's Momma! Jodie started blowing coat at the same age and it was a nightmare. Since I now know exactly what it is, when Lacie starts I'm going to cut a lot of them out and try to just keep a small longer layer on the outside. Every time I think of it I can hear Karen saying "It WILL grow back."😋 That's the mantra I will be saying to myself. Below is what Jodie looks like now.


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

JaJa said:


> I hear your pain Ivy's Momma! Jodie started blowing coat at the same age and it was a nightmare. Since I now know exactly what it is, when Lacie starts I'm going to cut a lot of them out and try to just keep a small longer layer on the outside. Every time I think of it I can hear Karen saying "It WILL grow back."😋 That's the mantra I will be saying to myself. Below is what Jodie looks like now.
> 
> View attachment 179209
> View attachment 179210


She is adorable! How old is she now? We are considering getting another Havanese in the spring as we think Ivy would love a playmate in life … although she is not usually alone too much… she just seems so much happier when around other dogs and even our daughter’s cat! But this matting stage has had us wondering. I guess we will see how we get through this and how long it lasts. We have totally fallen in love with the breed though! So smart, sensitive and loving… and way too cute! Thank you for sharing your experience… it sure is nice to know we are not alone in this dilemma! 😌


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

JaJa said:


> I hear your pain Ivy's Momma! Jodie started blowing coat at the same age and it was a nightmare. Since I now know exactly what it is, when Lacie starts I'm going to cut a lot of them out and try to just keep a small longer layer on the outside. Every time I think of it I can hear Karen saying "It WILL grow back."😋 That's the mantra I will be saying to myself. Below is what Jodie looks like now.
> 
> View attachment 179209
> View attachment 179210


I just read back in your discussions a bit and had to tell you that I shed tears reading about your loss of JoJo. We lost our last dear sweet Zoe in July 2021, after she lost the use of her hind legs due to a nerve issue… wasn’t in pain and so we fully supported her through the use of a doggie wheelchair for the last 8 months of her 17 years with us. Our family was completely and utterly gutted, and it’s still hard that she is no longer with us. It took us a while to open our hearts and welcome a new puppy. After doing some research, we knew we wanted a Havanese, and we’ve been so blessed by Ivy! We never thought we’d ever have two dogs, but we’ve enjoyed Ivy so much that we want another one! It was so great to read how you’ve had three! And now I think I understand your crew… Cotton, Jodie and new little Lacie as of this past July! I love all the fun stuff you have for them all! The tunnels and ball pit is a great idea! We got an infant tunnel from IKEA and Ivy loves it! She‘d go crazy for your tunnel maze!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ivy’s Momma said:


> I wonder if the dematting comb actually makes the situation worse?? It does tear through mats, in a sharper way than the end tooth of a comb, but I wonder if the cutting or shredding of the fur makes that area even more vulnerable afterwards to rematting.


Yes, a dematting comb is not the right tool for a Havanese coat, and will definitely make matters worse. Either pick at it with a comb, or slice vertically through it with s scissor blade (away from the skin, toward the outer edge of the hair) and then comb out the mat after you have sliced it a few times. Yhis causes much less damage than the blunter dematting tool.



Ivy’s Momma said:


> I can’t find the Ice on Ice in any of our shops here.


You can order it from Amazon or Cherrybrook on line.



Ivy’s Momma said:


> The other problem is some of her mats around her ear area are pretty close to the skin at this point and it is a sensitive area for her. It is hard to get a hold between the skin and the mat to protect her, as there just Isn’t much there that isn’t matted.


Honestly, I would just cut those off, even if it makes her look funny for a while. The same with any in her arm pits or groin areas. Those ares don’t show at all, and they really hurt. I will not torture my dogs, even the show dogs, for coat!!!



Ivy’s Momma said:


> We live in quite a cold winter climate in Canada, so we really do not want to have her really short and definitely not shaved.


If you take her in with mats to the skin, the groomer may have no choice. BUT REMEMBER!!! Hair grows fast. Especially puppy coat. And in the mean time, even in Canada, you can keep her warm with sme little fleece sweaters. This is NOT the end of the world. Both of you will get through it, and she will be your adorable fluffy puppy again!!! 💕


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Ivy’s Momma said:


> I just read back in your discussions a bit and had to tell you that I shed tears reading about your loss of JoJo. We lost our last dear sweet Zoe in July 2021, after she lost the use of her hind legs due to a nerve issue… wasn’t in pain and so we fully supported her through the use of a doggie wheelchair for the last 8 months of her 17 years with us. Our family was completely and utterly gutted, and it’s still hard that she is no longer with us. It took us a while to open our hearts and welcome a new puppy. After doing some research, we knew we wanted a Havanese, and we’ve been so blessed by Ivy! We never thought we’d ever have two dogs, but we’ve enjoyed Ivy so much that we want another one! It was so great to read how you’ve had three! And now I think I understand your crew… Cotton, Jodie and new little Lacie as of this past July! I love all the fun stuff you have for them all! The tunnels and ball pit is a great idea! We got an infant tunnel from IKEA and Ivy loves it! She‘d go crazy for your tunnel maze!


That's the joy of an empty nest😋 Even though we still had 2 we were devastated when JoJo passed last year, we weren't expecting to be that distraught. It did help to not have an empty house. When we got Jodie, JoJo had a few months left, or so we thought. I didn't realize his definition of a few would be 26! I researched info on deaf and blind play with toddlers and worked with Jodie. A month later JoJo didn't detest Jodie's presence any more and she became his seeing and hearing dog assistant. We thought we might have to do the partial wheelchair that you had for Zoe. Her living until she was 17 is amazing! You are clearly an exceptional dog mom💖 
About 8 months ago Cotton stopped playing with Jodie and she desperately wanted her playmate back and we missed all that extra energy around the house. Having two active Havanese really changes the atmosphere, for the better in my opinion of course. Whenever I think about all the time and effort I'm putting in, I look at Jodie and know it's absolutely worth every minute. Ivy is just adorable and looks to have perfect pigment. I enlarged her picture and she has even more peach highlights than Cotton, so very pretty. I can imagine that cute little face running around the house. My 3 are next to me on the couch right now snuggling with each other. Since Jodie has stopped wishing the little monster would jump off a cliff, it's a harmonious and energetic house again.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Please don't be afraid to cut her down to a short puppy cut - it can help prevent the need to actually shave and it will make it easier to get through the blowing coat stage. If you're worried that she'll be too cold, it's easier for them to wear a sweater or fleece when they're in a very short puppy cut - even in the winter because it doesn't cause as many mats as when they're long (BIG DISCLAIMER: I don't know about wearing a fleece when also blowing coat... it might not be the best idea - BUT if your house is warm and toasty you could just get a coat for going outside - the short time she's in it probably wouldn't affect mats any more than a harness would). 

If you want to go back to a long coat after the blowing coat is done you can - but you might also decide that they're cute in a puppy cut - like Karen did with Pixel . I keep Perry in a really short puppy cut (slightly longer in the summer) because (1) he's cute in it (2) neither he or I loves daily grooming, (3)his legs mat very quickly (partially because of the dislike of grooming) once he gets too long, and (4) he does tend to puff rather than his hair lying flat when he gets too long.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Melissa Brill said:


> Please don't be afraid to cut her down to a short puppy cut - it can help prevent the need to actually shave and it will make it easier to get through the blowing coat stage. If you're worried that she'll be too cold, it's easier for them to wear a sweater or fleece when they're in a very short puppy cut - even in the winter because it doesn't cause as many mats as when they're long (BIG DISCLAIMER: I don't know about wearing a fleece when also blowing coat... it might not be the best idea - BUT if your house is warm and toasty you could just get a coat for going outside - the short time she's in it probably wouldn't affect mats any more than a harness would).
> 
> If you want to go back to a long coat after the blowing coat is done you can - but you might also decide that they're cute in a puppy cut - like Karen did with Pixel . I keep Perry in a really short puppy cut (slightly longer in the summer) because (1) he's cute in it (2) neither he or I loves daily grooming, (3)his legs mat very quickly (partially because of the dislike of grooming) once he gets too long, and (4) he does tend to puff rather than his hair lying flat when he gets too long.


Exactly! You just described Cotton to a tee. Although I do love grooming Jodie at this point but, unlike Cotton, she falls asleep half the time and frequently has one of her back legs dangling over the edge. Cotton would rather have an enema with boiling water than be groomed every day😆


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

krandall said:


> Yes, a dematting comb is not the right tool for a Havanese coat, and will definitely make matters worse. Either pick at it with a comb, or slice vertically through it with s scissor blade (away from the skin, toward the outer edge of the hair) and then comb out the mat after you have sliced it a few times. Yhis causes much less damage than the blunter dematting tool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are right! The end tooth on the comb and cutting into bad mats first before picking away at them is definitely the better way to go. I won’t use the dematting comb anymore. We managed to get all her mats out before going to the groomer… and just cut out those that were in sensitive areas. We asked our groomer to take her shorter for now, and she is still a cutie! It’ll be easier for now. I did find it on Amazon, I had been looking for a detangler/conditioner… but I realize now you are referring to a shampoo. Thank you again, for your great advice and words of encouragement!


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

JaJa said:


> That's the joy of an empty nest😋 Even though we still had 2 we were devastated when JoJo passed last year, we weren't expecting to be that distraught. It did help to not have an empty house. When we got Jodie, JoJo had a few months left, or so we thought. I didn't realize his definition of a few would be 26! I researched info on deaf and blind play with toddlers and worked with Jodie. A month later JoJo didn't detest Jodie's presence any more and she became his seeing and hearing dog assistant. We thought we might have to do the partial wheelchair that you had for Zoe. Her living until she was 17 is amazing! You are clearly an exceptional dog mom💖
> About 8 months ago Cotton stopped playing with Jodie and she desperately wanted her playmate back and we missed all that extra energy around the house. Having two active Havanese really changes the atmosphere, for the better in my opinion of course. Whenever I think about all the time and effort I'm putting in, I look at Jodie and know it's absolutely worth every minute. Ivy is just adorable and looks to have perfect pigment. I enlarged her picture and she has even more peach highlights than Cotton, so very pretty. I can imagine that cute little face running around the house. My 3 are next to me on the couch right now snuggling with each other. Since Jodie has stopped wishing the little monster would jump off a cliff, it's a harmonious and energetic house again.


It definitely sounds like you and your husband are enjoying your family of Havanese babies! I’d love to have more as well. The breed just has such a joyous character and they give such love! And from our experience with Ivy, the breed is very smart too! Just a ton of fun! I can imagine having three most definitely would fill your home with activity, keeping things interesting!
I’m happy to report we were able to get all Ivy’s mats out and we asked our groomer to take her shorter for now, while her coat is changing. It will grow out again. Much better for her and easier to manage while her coat is blowing. She has kept lots of peachy caramel highlights throughout her coat and on her ears. Sometimes It doesn’t show as much in photos, depending on the lighting, but in person, it’s very evident. We were not sure if that would be lost as she grew older and had hair cuts, but it’s stayed. Lightened some from when she was really young, but overall it’s stayed, which we’ve been happy about. We will try to get a very different colour in our next puppy, as you did, so they stand out in their own ways.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ivy’s Momma said:


> You are right! The end tooth on the comb and cutting into bad mats first before picking away at them is definitely the better way to go. I won’t use the dematting comb anymore. We managed to get all her mats out before going to the groomer… and just cut out those that were in sensitive areas. We asked our groomer to take her shorter for now, and she is still a cutie! It’ll be easier for now. I did find it on Amazon, I had been looking for a detangler/conditioner… but I realize now you are referring to a shampoo. Thank you again, for your great advice and words of encouragement!


No… Ice on Ice is a grooming spray. The shampoo I use, which might also help you, is Chris Christensen Proline Fair Advantage.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

There is an Ice on Ice shampoo and conditioner but it seems like it’s heavy for a lot of Havanese coats. My husband actually really likes it for Sundance because it makes it easier to comb or brush when the coat is a little tangled from the bath, right at the beginning of blow drying. I feel like there are other ways to prevent and manage that. I like it occasionally and used to rotate it in. It seems like when I just use it every once in a while he feels so soft and it’s easy to comb and I love it, but two weeks in a row is always a disappointment. It doesn’t cleanse as well and the conditioner feels too heavy. It’s also a lot more expensive than spectrum 10 because it isn’t concentrated and the bottles are smaller, although those things may have changed. The Ice on Ice grooming spray is lighter than the shampoo and conditioner, imo.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> It’s also a lot more expensive than spectrum 10 because it isn’t concentrated


This, I think, is the AMAZING value of Spectrum 10. It might SEEM more expensive than the same volume of many other conditioners. But it is DO concentrated that it’s actually kind of hard to deal with when you first get the bottle. For about the first 6 months (bathing 4 dogs) I replace whatever I remove with water each time and shake HARD. After about 6 months of use, I STILL have a “full gallon” of conditioner, but now, I can FINALLY pour it out of the bottle! LOL!

AND it works really well, and has a light, pleasant fragrance.


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

krandall said:


> No… Ice on Ice is a grooming spray. The shampoo I use, which might also help you, is Chris Christensen Proline Fair Advantage.


I found the spray! Thank you!!


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> There is an Ice on Ice shampoo and conditioner but it seems like it’s heavy for a lot of Havanese coats. My husband actually really likes it for Sundance because it makes it easier to comb or brush when the coat is a little tangled from the bath, right at the beginning of blow drying. I feel like there are other ways to prevent and manage that. I like it occasionally and used to rotate it in. It seems like when I just use it every once in a while he feels so soft and it’s easy to comb and I love it, but two weeks in a row is always a disappointment. It doesn’t cleanse as well and the conditioner feels too heavy. It’s also a lot more expensive than spectrum 10 because it isn’t concentrated and the bottles are smaller, although those things may have changed. The Ice on Ice grooming spray is lighter than the shampoo and conditioner, imo.


This is so good to know! Thank you!


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

krandall said:


> This, I think, is the AMAZING value of Spectrum 10. It might SEEM more expensive than the same volume of many other conditioners. But it is DO concentrated that it’s actually kind of hard to deal with when you first get the bottle. For about the first 6 months (bathing 4 dogs) I replace whatever I remove with water each time and shake HARD. After about 6 months of use, I STILL have a “full gallon” of conditioner, but now, I can FINALLY pour it out of the bottle! LOL!
> 
> AND it works really well, and has a light, pleasant fragrance.


It is so good to have this info. Shared by those with experience with these products! Thank you!


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## Ivy’s Momma (4 mo ago)

I want to thank everyone for all the terrific information and supportive guidance! Ivy is now in a shorter puppy cut until she finishes blowing her coat. She seems to love it shorter, and combing is definitely easier and more enjoyable for us both for now!


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## HiggieSmallsLady (10 mo ago)

Hey Folks!
It's so relieving to read these, because Higgins has been experiencing the same thing. Around 9mo I noticed (too late) that he had matts along his legs and arm pits. I was very good at working through this back and shoulder, but was missing his legs. 
So we shaved him down. As he was growing back, I asked to groomer to keep his hair as long as possible -- only 2-3 inches. He was still getting matts. Now only where his harness rubs. 

*I have three questions -- 
one:* *has anyone used the WildOne harnesses?* I love all of their products, and am so hesitant to try another harness because these are so soft and easy to clean. (plus we have two already), but if that's the problem than we can get a different harness
*two: *since getting matts he is not a fan of the comb. He gets one special treat (they're non-training treats - so not 3cal lol), and I break it up as we go because he hates getting combed now. He will wiggle away. and then I have to hold him in my arms which he doesn't like. I will try to coax him, talk sweet and calming, but he still doesn't like it. I have started breaking the treat up, and giving him small pieces every couple minutes if he is doing a good job, but then he won't focus on the toy or chew piece in front of him because he gets fixated on the comb or trying to get the rest of his treat.
*How do we get past this so that he doesn't wiggle away? PB on a slow lick floor mat, then just accept a pb face?

three:*
I started cutting the matts out, but I have been cutting horizontal, not vertical. Great to know!!!!
*If I cut vertically to separate the matt, but am not able to comb it all the way out, is it then worse / more likely to pull in more hair?*

We are coming into winter so it is only going to get colder and ranier. I put a little hoodie on him for a few days to keep him warm, but of course it made it worse. 

Thank you so much!
Morgan and Higgins


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Ivy’s Momma said:


> I want to thank everyone for all the terrific information and supportive guidance! Ivy is now in a shorter puppy cut until she finishes blowing her coat. She seems to love it shorter, and combing is definitely easier and more enjoyable for us both for now!


There's nothing wrong if you decide to keep her in a puppy cut even after she blows coat. It's all personal preference (yours and the dogs  ). I love Perry in a puppy cut and he loves NOT having to do long grooming sessions multiple times a week


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