# Potty Training Question for Tom or ...



## siggie (Apr 19, 2008)

... or anyone else familiar with his recommended technique. I read the descriptions from various threads I found by searching potty training, but I'm not certain I'm correctly visualizing what he describes. Sooo... I made a diagram to verify. 

The initial 2x4 space is on the left and the next step w/ the L shape (not quite to scale) is on the right. Finally, after the larger L goes well the two panels on the front would come off opening up the room, but leaving the litter box where it is. 
How'd I do? 

I don't get my pup for almost 2.5 more weeks, but I want to be sure I'm ready w/ my game plan.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Wow - looks like your pup will be trained by the first day. Very nice. Can't wait to see your pictures.


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## siggie (Apr 19, 2008)

I can't wait to take some pictures Lisa! I love photography, so it'll be fun to have a new and more willing subject. :whoo: In the meantime I'm really enjoying everyone else's photos and videos. There are definitely _plenty_ to keep me busy.

I don't know if he'll be trained by the first day, but I want to do it right from day 1, so I don't have to unteach anything. That's much harder to do.


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Tom King is back on line ---- so this is getting bumped up for you to hear from him. Your plan sounds great. Do you have your Hav yet?


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## siggie (Apr 19, 2008)

Thanks, I was just about to bump it myself. I don't have him yet... I pick him up on Saturday. :bounce:


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

So excited for you and can't wait to see the new puppy pictures!
You're plan looks terrific! Will the puppy be started with litter box training?

Beverly


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## siggie (Apr 19, 2008)

bump again because I see Tom online


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## 3girlsluvHav (Apr 11, 2008)

*Same boat*

Good Afternoon! I've been keeping an eye on your post b/c I have the same question. Our pup comes home in 2.5 weeks too! I would like to know this info as well. We have our xpen ready to go----I am going to set it up close to the back patio door so getting to the grass will take seconds. Our breeder said to also have med sized litter box with wee pads also in the xpen, a bed and toys- and to make the area small. Bascially it seems like the pup is in our arms, in this small xpen area, outside or on a walk......I hope we are on track. Congrats on your new pup and look forward to "talking" to you soon!

Alycia in Chicago


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Alycia - congrats on your new pup-to-be. Sounds like you have your plan ready to go. I always pick up my puppies from the crate or xpen and take them out to where I want them to potty outside. If their feet touch the floor, you're asking for an accident. As they get older, you can let them out of their crate, and RLH outside calling their name to follow you. If they stop, scoop them up and carry them the rest of the way.

Can't wait to see your new puppy pictures. I bet 2 1/2 weeks feels very far away.


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Look at the large crate set up for the pug puppy in this thread.

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=4635

They have the crate set up as an expen. Interesting set up.

Are you all set for your puppy???


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

What did you end up deciding, Ani?

I had the bed set up on the other side from the pee pad, with the play area in the middle. My pen was sort of a rectangle shape.

Kara


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Sorry that I missed this earlier. That is exactly the setup we use but those are actually progression steps that our puppies go through after already starting when they are three weeks old with several other setups. You can probably see pictures of the progression with some of my pictures in the gallery. Havanese are very much creatures of habit. They start pottying in the right place out of habit and not reasoning.


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## joytrink (Mar 19, 2008)

Hi. Could someone direct me to the advice that Tom wrote regarding potty training (as it pertains to the diagrams Siggi made). Thanks


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## 3girlsluvHav (Apr 11, 2008)

We are getting our puppy this week and have cut/paste his info for myself- here it is:
Potty training needs to be done as a progression. 

The first step is that the pup is 100% going in the expen in the right place. 

When a pup is at first by itself in it's new home we recommend that the expen be folded in so that it's 2x4 with the potty area, whether pad or litter box, is on one end towards where the pup's people will be when it wakes up. Once I have a pup by itself the expen is in the room where my chair is and the litter box is in that end. As soon as the pup wakes up it will automatically come towards me and go into the litter box. I use the desire to come out of the pen as incentive to "go potty" before the pup is allowed to come out and play. I go and stand next to the end where the box is and give the command "go potty"-no eye contact, no smiling, no nothing until the puppy squats to pee. The INSTANT the job is finished I pick the pup up and make much of it and let it run around like a wild thing to play. It usually only takes a couple of days and I will have the pup squatting to pee whether it has to or not on command.

After the pup is 100% going to the box in the 2x4, next another corner is opened up on one end and the box put in the new end so that there is a 2x2 bed area, a 2x2 open area, and the potty area in the other 2x2. If the pup potties on the floor in the pen you need to go back to the 2x4 for a day or so and then try the expansion again.

Once the pup is 100% in the L shaped pen, you can try opening it all the way up, but be prepared to go backwards in size if necessary.

The next stage is to open one side of the pen when you let the pup out to play so that you can play with the pup near the pen and it can go back into the box in the pen to potty. The play area is gradually made larger until the pup has the run of the whole room and will go back to the box. The pup HAS to have CONSTANT supervision. It doesn't count as constant if everything is forgotten and the pup left to run around when the phone rings. If you have to leave the play area while the pup is out he goes back in the pen.

Potty areas staged around the room will not work to start with. The transition can be made to having a potty area but it has to be part of a transition with small steps.

No accidents on the floor is the right number. If the pups have been raised from the start not knowing anything but going in a box or on pads it greatly simplifies things. Yes, no accidents is possible. Our last 5 dogs at least have NEVER pottied on the floor-Roxie, Belle, Posh, Razzle, and Frolic.

The answer to the problem of "accidents" on the floor is that there is too much freedom and/or you are not paying attention. To be able to give complete attention to the pup the first few days is priceless. When the pup is running around playing it will always give some sort of signal that it needs to go potty. Males will have to sniff for a spot and circle, if only for a few seconds, and females will walk a bit differently, if only for a few steps, but they do give a signal.

I call this potty training and say that potty training is separate from house training. Potty training needs to come first, especially for a young puppy.


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## joytrink (Mar 19, 2008)

Thank you Alycia. God bless you and your new puppy


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## joytrink (Mar 19, 2008)

*Boy do I feel like a fish out of water*

We finally got our puppy this past Sunday. My son has decided to name him Koda, not Spot, after the little bear in Disney's movie, Brother Bear. He is adorable. I must say though, I feel like I did when I had my first child - completely inexperienced. I don't know some of the basic info. How much to feed him for instance. I will see a Vet tomorrow for his first check up and hope to get vital info from him. Potty Training of course is the biggie right now. So far I stink at it. How do I keep my eye on the puppy all the time and still get anything else done in the house,(like cooking dinner for instance). It only takes a second or less for Koda to pee on the floor. I have scooped him up during this time and rushed him outside to "his spot" but don't know if anything is clicking for him. Wish this was easier. But at least Koda feels loved. I have been reading many of the existing threads and have taken in some good info. Thank you all.


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## joytrink (Mar 19, 2008)

*house training*

Hi again,
I was just studying Tom's method of training. I understand the morning routine, but what do you do after all the praise? Put the pup back in his crate? I am a little confused about the details. When you have accomplished the "no peeing on the floor" what then? How do you transition to outdoors? Can anyone clear up my confusion? help: Thanks
Joyce


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

With my method the pup goes back in the expen after a play/cuddle session or when you can't watch it. If the pup is running around when you can't watch it that falls under the "too much freedom" category. The more time spent on this training to start with the shorter amount of time it takes. Our newest member of our pack, Blanchi, only took two days at most to be completely reliable in a big part of the house-which was closed off by baby gates from the rest of the house and had litter boxes always in sight. This was two days of doing nothing else but watching and playing with her except when she was sleeping and even when she was sleeping I was ready when she woke up.

Outdoor training can start at any time but I don't find any advantage to starting it early.


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## joytrink (Mar 19, 2008)

thanks for responding Tom.
What are the rules for house training?


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Just as the expen gradually expands as they are ready for it, housetraining is just a progression from the potty training. There is no single major leap, the space is just enlarged until the pup will go to the potty area from around a corner. The next stage after training them to "go potty" on command to get out of the expen comes by opening one side of the expen, sitting on the floor to play, until the pup goes back to the potty area on it's on and then gradually enlarged thereafter.

Housetraining has to come after they are old enough to be able to hold it longer than a few seconds when they realize they need to "go". In early stages those few seconds are the only ones available for the training opportunity.

Of course we have done this so much that we have a good feel for when a puppy needs to go, much like raising a child, but if you are observant you can figure it out. They won't do it just because you want them to. You have to help them develop the right habit.

We start when they are about 2 1/2 weeks old and even before, we change their bedding several times a day so maybe it helps their instinct to keep their bed area clean.


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## bella serra (Jun 23, 2008)

oops...my bella is 5 mo.s old and not using potty pad,the method i used very succcesfully for my 2 other dogs(both chihuahuas) they are both perfect 100% triained.
i am very frustrated and need help with suggestions..
thanks!!!


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