# Kylies color changes



## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

Hi all, 

Kylie is now a little over 12 weeks and he's really changing colors quickly!!

Here's a couple pics showing the color changes around his eyes, back & tail. 

I know it's hard to know but does anybody have any ideas what color he will become? Will the black become nonexistent?

Thanks!


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

It looks like his black areas might be silvering so you could end up with a gray and white dog. Molly is a black parti also. Her black areas haven't changed but her white areas are getting more and more covered with black spots due to the Belton gene. Always interesting to witness the color changes in our Havs!


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks Diane!! 

I love Kylie no matter what color he becomes but
I have to admit I will miss his black & white!!

Molly is adorable!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

He's definitely a silver! His black areas won't turn white, but how light they become will depend on whether he got a single copy of the silver gene or two copies. Dogs with a single copy stay darker, with a lot of black hairs still mixed with varying amounts of white hairs. Dogs with two copies can get as light as a silver poodle. They are really lovely!!! 

Pixel has a lovely silver sister who had a silver mask, even at 6 weeks. The jury is still out on Pixel and Birdy (Pixel's sister that the King's kept). They both got a splash of silver through their tails quite early, so we thought they were going to silver, though not as much as the 3rd sister. But now they are only 11 days from their first birthday, and neither has shown any more sign of silvering further. Time will tell though!


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I love the contrast of the black and pure white too. As you can see, Molly's white area is all speckled now and it does give a totally different look. I will say that I have seen some black and white Havs that have silvered and they were absolutely beautiful! Your puppy is a cutie pie!


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks Karen & Diane!!

My breeder wrote "Kylie is also my first puppy to change colors like that! WOW it looks like a steel or charcoal gray coming in. It must be inherited by a recessive gene on both sides. Dad is sable and mom is black and white." 

So I guess he could get very light. When do they usually stop changing colors?


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Colours of the Rainbow
This is an excellent site that explains color changes and has great pictures.


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

Thank you again Diane!!


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## Ollie"s Mom (May 23, 2014)

Our Ollie is a black parti and has stayed primarily black and white, but his dad is a sable with various shades of grey caramel and brown, he looked almost black as a pup. Now he has a lot of silver. Our Ollie has developed silvering where the black meets the white on his body, tail and legs. When he was a baby he had a white muzzle and a white blaze between his eyes that sprouted into a white poof on top of his head. The white poof is now silver. The black areas have stayed black for the most part.


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

I always thought that the black-and-white parties didn't change as much 
but it seems they do!


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## Ollie"s Mom (May 23, 2014)

Most stay primarily black and white, but if there is the silvering gene as Karen said it can make a difference. The amount of silvering depends on how strong the gene factors are in the parents/grandparents. Same with the belton gene. If the silvering gene is strong they can lose the black altogether. I have seen some that lose the black and end up silver/grey and white and they are really beautiful. If that happens to your pup he will be gorgeous.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LochTess said:


> Thanks Karen & Diane!!
> 
> My breeder wrote "Kylie is also my first puppy to change colors like that! WOW it looks like a steel or charcoal gray coming in. It must be inherited by a recessive gene on both sides. Dad is sable and mom is black and white."
> 
> So I guess he could get very light. When do they usually stop changing colors?


They can keep changing through their entire lives! It's not uncommon for silvers to go through periods where they are darker and lighter.

It's really too early to say how light your guy will get!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ollie"s Mom said:


> Our Ollie is a black parti and has stayed primarily black and white, but his dad is a sable with various shades of grey caramel and brown, he looked almost black as a pup. Now he has a lot of silver. Our Ollie has developed silvering where the black meets the white on his body, tail and legs. When he was a baby he had a white muzzle and a white blaze between his eyes that sprouted into a white poof on top of his head. The white poof is now silver. The black areas have stayed black for the most part.


When white areas get black spots, that has noting to do with the silvering gene, which changes dark hair to white. Black creeping into white ares is caused by the Belton gene. Molly has quite a bit of Belton spotting in her coat, Kodi has some, but a lot less. Panda appears not to have any... But her parents don't either.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LochTess said:


> I always thought that the black-and-white parties didn't change as much
> but it seems they do!


Black & White parties are the LEAST likely to change a lot, but they CAN change in two ways. They can have lightening of the dark areas (silver gene) or dark spotting in the white areas (Belton gene) The expression of both can vary a lot from one dog to another. I know one dog who started out as a B&W parti, but inherited BOTH the Belton gene and the silver gene. He ended up looking like a solid silver dog, as the white/Belton areas became sooty looking, and the black areas silvered.


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

Never a dull moment… pun intended  It looks like kylie's going to keep me guessing!!


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## boomana (Jul 9, 2015)

I've seen the most gorgeous silver/gray and white havies. I'm almost jealous they're so pretty.

My boy, half Coton, silvered a lot. If I would cut his hair, you'd see the most beautiful gray underneath. I'm almost tempted to give him puppy cut just to have it seen. He's still very black on his ears and a bit on his back. My Lola, who is almost ten months and was a dark reddish chocolate until a month or so ago, is just starting to silver. Her tail has lots of white, and it seems all her new hair on her back is coming in white. She's also starting to lighten around her eyes and mouth, but I can't tell yet if it's just lighter brown or actually silvering. 

I read somewhere that if they have one copy of the silvering gene then start the silvering process in adolescence, and if they have two, they start silvering much earlier. I don't know if that's true, but if so, you might have one of those gorgeous silver and white dogs I was talking about.


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

It amazes me how quickly they and drastically they can change colors!!

Actually we could see some silvering around his eyes at 5 weeks so he 
probably does have both.

It's kind of funny to think that the pup you see now is going to look so totally 
different in few weeks/months...:surprise: I love the way he looks now and I'll
love him no matter what color he turns into but the suspense is killing me!!:smile2:


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## Laurmann2000 (Sep 12, 2015)

He's so cute. Please post pictures as he changes. I find it so fascinating to see the color changes in these dogs.


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

Thank you, will do!!


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

I don't know if it's my imagination but the black hair seems to have a brownish tint to it.
I also noticed that his lips towards the back of his mouth is brownish and the front lips are black.

His father carries the chocolate gene so I wonder he may turn brown in addition to the silver/gray
in some areas?

I'm not sure if you can see it but here's a few pictures of his lips


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LochTess said:


> I don't know if it's my imagination but the black hair seems to have a brownish tint to it.
> I also noticed that his lips towards the back of his mouth is brownish and the front lips are black.
> 
> His father carries the chocolate gene so I wonder he may turn brown in addition to the silver/gray
> ...


A dog can have poor pigment, so not be as black as he's supposed to be, but they can't turn from black to chocolate.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I have noticed that in certain light Molly's black areas look like they are a very deep reddish brown. This might be what you are seeing with your dog. Molly is a black parti but I just think in certain light it just doesn't look jet black. I have wondered if it was the shampoo I am using.


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks Karen! So it's most likely poor pigment and not a preview of his future color...

Diane that's exactly it, a deep reddish brown. I think you're probably right and it has 
something to do with the lighting. My friend thinks I'm either color blind or a little crazy 
because she doesn't see it…:der:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LochTess said:


> Thanks Karen! So it's most likely poor pigment and not a preview of his future color...
> 
> Diane that's exactly it, a deep reddish brown. I think you're probably right and it has
> something to do with the lighting. My friend thinks I'm either color blind or a little crazy
> because she doesn't see it&#8230;:der:


A LOT of black Havanese have a BIT of a reddish/brownish undertone to their coat. Not all, but many.

I also don't know that it's poor pigment in the case of your puppy... It looks pretty normal from the photo you posted. All three of mine, (One with a totally black head, and one who is almost all over black (just some white toes and a white patch on her chest) when I look at them closely, the pigment is not as strong toward the corner of their mouths as it is further forward. All of them have excellent pigment in terms of noses, eye rims and lips where you can see them.


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

I've never seen a different color on the lips before. 
Ricky was a black & white parti and his lips were all black.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LochTess said:


> I've never seen a different color on the lips before.
> Ricky was a black & white parti and his lips were all black.


But, when I look at the photo you posted, that looks like black pigment too... Certainly not chocolate...


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

Maybe I am colorblind...but in that first picture it looks to me like the back lips are brown 
and towards the front is black. But if you think it looks normal I'm a happy camper


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## Piper's Mom (Dec 10, 2012)

Kylie is a cutie! It's been a while since I've been around the forum but I can't resist an excuse to post Piper pictures. Like Kylie, she was a black and white parti (Irish Pied) at birth but quickly began silvering. She was already silvering around her eyes and down her back by the time we brought her home at 10 weeks. Now she's completely silver and white, and thought you might appreciate some "progress photos" to give you an idea what Kylie might end up like. The first photo is within days of bringing her home. The second is her at about 6 months old. The third is her a few months over a year, and the last is just from recently. As Karen said earlier silvers often go darker and lighter, and you can really see that with Piper. I love watching her change (and the shocked looks on folk's faces when I say "just over 3" when they ask how old she is ound 

Oh, and for reference her mom's a silver and white parti and her dad's a true chocolate and white parti.


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## Laurmann2000 (Sep 12, 2015)

Wow, Pipers color has changed so much. She's so pretty. Thank you for sharing these photos of her.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Piper is absolutely darling!


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## LochTess (Aug 22, 2009)

Piper is gorgeous!!!! If Kylie turns out to look like Piper I will be very happy!!!:smile2:

Thank you so much for posting the pictures and it's really amazing to see how much 
Piper changed, she really looks like a different dog!! 

Do you think she's going to stay that color or continue to change?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Oh, she's GORGEOUS!!! I'd love a silver like that!  IF Pixel silvers more, I'm sure she'll still be quite dark.


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## Piper's Mom (Dec 10, 2012)

LochTess said:


> Piper is gorgeous!!!! If Kylie turns out to look like Piper I will be very happy!!!:smile2:
> 
> Thank you so much for posting the pictures and it's really amazing to see how much
> Piper changed, she really looks like a different dog!!
> ...


Thank you! I think she'll fluctuate between a few shades darker and a few shades lighter throughout her life, but I don't think she'll ever get as light as she was in the photo under the tree. Then again, I'd be a fool to say that with how much this breed changes. Right now I can see about a half-inch band of a lighter shade coming in along her back when I comb her out.



krandall said:


> Oh, she's GORGEOUS!!! I'd love a silver like that!  IF Pixel silvers more, I'm sure she'll still be quite dark.


Thanks Karen! I think she's pretty great too, but I'm pretty biased. It'll be interesting to see if Pixel silvers as she ages more.


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