# Dental Cleaning



## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Emmie had her first dental cleaning yesterday (under anesthesia). She's 2.5 yrs old and I've done a decent job with her oral hygiene and feeding a raw diet, yet in spite of all this the vet said she definitely had plaque and tartar, and was happy I brought her in for a professional cleaning (scaling and polishing). He also explained that toy breeds have the same number of teeth, crowded into a smaller space, so it makes them more prone to oral diseases.

I'm now reinvigorated to give her the best care possible by brushing her teeth everyday, using Zymox enzymatic water additive (thanks for the tip Dave), and using OraVet plaque prevention gel 1x a week.

Check out this article from the American Veterinary Dental College regarding Dental Scaling Without Anesthesia and why it is not recommended.

Good luck with taking care of your Havs' pearly whites! :brushteeth:


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Important Links:

FAQ's about Pet Dental Cleanings

What is an Anesthesia Free Dental Cleaning?

What is a Professional Veterinary Dental Cleaning?

Risks of Anesthesia Free Pet Dental Cleanings

Pet Periodontal Disease

Stages of Pet Periodontal Disease

Reasons not to Choose Anesthesia Free Dentals for Your Pet

Questions to Ask Your Veterinarian about Pet Dental Cleanings

What to Say to Groomers or Providers Who Offer You an Anesthesia Free Pet Dental Cleaning

-Jeanne


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

One more link:

Pet Dental Health Videos

-Jeanne-


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I also believe dental care is so very important to over all health. I brush Scout and Truffles teeth daily. Scout had his teeth cleaned and x-rayed when he was 1.5 yrs old. Truffles will be 1 year next month and will be spayed. I plan to have her teeth cleaned at the same time. It is impossible to clean below the gum line without anesthesia. They depend on us to take care of their pearly whites :brushteeth:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

good stuff .


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

I am really curious about that poster who said her dog had to have teeth pulled and what she was doing, but she hasnt came back yet. 

I bought tartar shield chews, anyone else tried these? I bought them at the vet.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SJ1998 said:


> I am really curious about that poster who said her dog had to have teeth pulled and what she was doing, but she hasnt came back yet.
> 
> I bought tartar shield chews, anyone else tried these? I bought them at the vet.


I would not use dental chews, even ones from a vet. If the dog bites off and swallows a big piece, it does not digestin the stomach and passes into the intestines where it can cause an obstruction. How do I know this? An $1800 bill.

I do think that some dogs just have worse teeth than others. i don't know exactly why this is, though I suspect that crowded mouths may be at least a part of the problem. I know there are people who work really hard to keep their dog's teeth clean and still end up having to do cleanings or even extractions before the dog is geriatric.

Kodi's teeth are in great shape (checked regularly by the vet) at age 5 1/2 without ever having a professional cleaning. I do brush his teeth regularly however and also use products to protect his teeth. Still I know people who are just as diligent and don't have as positive rsults as I've had.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Thank you for posting this good information, Jeanne.


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

krandall said:


> I would not use dental chews, even ones from a vet. If the dog bites off and swallows a big piece, it does not digestin the stomach and passes into the intestines where it can cause an obstruction. How do I know this? An $1800 bill.
> 
> I do think that some dogs just have worse teeth than others. i don't know exactly why this is, though I suspect that crowded mouths may be at least a part of the problem. I know there are people who work really hard to keep their dog's teeth clean and still end up having to do cleanings or even extractions before the dog is geriatric.
> 
> Kodi's teeth are in great shape (checked regularly by the vet) at age 5 1/2 without ever having a professional cleaning. I do brush his teeth regularly however and also use products to protect his teeth. Still I know people who are just as diligent and don't have as positive rsults as I've had.


I am reluctant on the dental chews as well, but not sure what other options there are. The deer antlers werent too popular with my guys and the holistic vet said these are better than bully sticks. Supposedly these are a safe alternative. Here is the link, any red flags to you? https://tartarshield.com/product_details.asp?id=22


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

SJ1998 said:


> I am reluctant on the dental chews as well, but not sure what other options there are. The deer antlers werent too popular with my guys and the holistic vet said these are better than bully sticks. Supposedly these are a safe alternative. Here is the link, any red flags to you? https://tartarshield.com/product_details.asp?id=22


That product doesn't look good to me. One of the ingredients they tout is Sodium Tripolyphosphate (STPP); they claim it prevents tartar formation. However, in large quantities, STPP is a suspected neurotoxin, as well as a registered pesticide and known air contaminant in the state of California.

Sodium Tripolyphosphate is approved by the Food and Drug Administration as a food preservative. It helps retain moisture, which helps products look good longer and keep selling weight higher. It is used in many other things, like detergent and antifreeze, for instance, and it's in many cleaning products, as well as being used as a rancid meat preservative. I don't think this is a good chemical for dogs (or humans) to ingest.

Additionally, the key ingredient in the Tartar Shield Soft Rawhide Chews is beef hide, which can present a choking hazard.

I don't believe dental chews are a good idea and think you're better off taking care of your Hav's teeth by daily teeth brushing, occasional dental cleaning by a veterinarian, and feeding raw meaty bones on a regular basis.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

The best dental care you can provide your little one is brushing daily and regular professional cleanings.


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

Thanks, I did not know that about the STPP. I got these from a holistic vet! 

I do clean the dogs teeth (they have their own oral B!) but I was looking for something for chewing with an added bonus of teeth maintenance. They both enjoy chewing. The turkey necks do not last long. In fact after the first turkey neck episode I wondered if I should call the emergency vet until I found out that was normal. They arent too keen on the deer antlers, and marrow bones cause excessive wear. I used to give my other dog marrow bones and his teeth always looked amazing, until I noticed they started to wear down. Any suggestions?! Maybe I could try rib bones or knuckle bones. 

Aside from the chemical I dont know if these will work anyway because it did not take either dog long to get through one of them. They are very soft and kind of flake off (i dont think choking would be an issue due to the texture but I dont want them eating chemicals either).


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## Deacon Blues (Nov 22, 2013)

Great post Jeanne. Is there an age you should do this?


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Deacon Blues said:


> Great post Jeanne. Is there an age you should do this?


Here's some info I found online:

Most dogs should receive professional dental care by age 2 to 3 years. The frequency of dental examinations, scaling, and polishing depends on how quickly calculus forms on the dog's teeth. A good program of home dental care will cut down on how often your dog's teeth need to be professionally cleaned.

Brush the teeth and gums at least three times a week using a toothpaste made for dogs. Start the program when the dog is young and her gums are still healthy. If the dog develops periodontal disease, you will need to brush the teeth every day.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

More info from the Internet:

Unfortunately, periodontal disease (also called gum disease), occurs five times as often in pets as it does in people. As a matter of fact, more than 80% of dogs over 3 years old have periodontal disease.

All of this can add up to a mouth in great pain. But a dog owner almost never notices the chronic pain because our pets have evolved to hide it. Their animal instincts urge them never to show a sign of weakness. Your dog's mouth could have bleeding gums or abscessed teeth and your dog may still eat just fine. That's why it's vital you do your part for your pooch's oral health.


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## Deacon Blues (Nov 22, 2013)

It's also interesting to note that in the 2012 Health Survey conducted by the Havanese Club of America two of the top three major health problems identified were dental; 2) decayed and excised teeth, and 3) bad breath (linked by most to item 2).

These outranked the luxating patellas and heart murmurs, and the rest of the list.

The health study is available here if anyone is interested.


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## Seeker (Dec 9, 2012)

*Chemical free toothpaste*

I am looking for a toothpaste but everything I find has chemicals, sugar or what nots. I was using a gel for Mercola, but he doesn't like it and it seems to give him acid reflux. And it really doesn't work. Does anyone know of any products that work and are holistic? I have been searching for a while but haven't been successful.:frusty:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Seeker said:


> I am looking for a toothpaste but everything I find has chemicals, sugar or what nots. I was using a gel for Mercola, but he doesn't like it and it seems to give him acid reflux. And it really doesn't work. Does anyone know of any products that work and are holistic? I have been searching for a while but haven't been successful.:frusty:


I was recommended and use these, the toothpaste gel and the drinking water additive http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=26460


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree that brushing with a good enzymatic tooth paste is the best thing you can do to keep your dog's teeth clean. I am NOT at all sure that all or most dogs need professional cleaning at 2-3 years of age. I am sure some do&#8230; Just as with people, I am sure there is a huge variation in how different dog's mouths are. I had a mouth full of fillings by the time I was a teenager, while my son is almost 25 and has never had a cavity. Some of it is modern dental care, but it is also just that he has better teeth than I do.

I think it is important to have your vet assess your dogs mouth periodically and follow their advice. But at 5 1/2, everything leads me to believe that Kodi's moth is in excellent shape. His teeth are as shiny and white as they were when he was a puppy, his gums show no redness or puffiness and his breath is clean smelling (unless he has just eaten something gross!!! ) The vet also agrees that his teeth are in great shape, so putting him under anesthesia to clean his teeth just wouldn't make sense at this time.

As far as another "chew thing", try the flavored moose antler blades from: http://acadiaantlers.com

They are a little softer and more flavorful than deer and elk antlers. Kodi totally ignores deer and elk antlers, but uses his moose antlers frequently.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Just because a dog's teeth are white doesn't guarantee his teeth are healthy.

Info from American Veterinary Dental College (AVDC):

*How do I know if my pet has periodontal disease? *
The truth is that you don't. Unfortunately, by the time there are obvious indications of periodontal disease, such as bad breath and loose teeth, there is already significant damage. Periodontal disease begins and exists under the gumline where it is not visible. White teeth do not mean that your pet is free from disease. The only way to prevent or identify periodontal disease early is through regular veterinary dental cleanings under anesthesia, where the pet's mouth is thoroughly evaluated, cleaned and all the teeth are radiographed to identify bone loss, periodontal pockets and other disease involving the tooth root and surrounding bone.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

This is very good information. Scout had baseline x-rays during his cleaning. I was there during the procedure and he was well monitored during and after.


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

thank you for the tip about the acadia antlers, I will try those!


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

Seeker said:


> I am looking for a toothpaste but everything I find has chemicals, sugar or what nots. I was using a gel for Mercola, but he doesn't like it and it seems to give him acid reflux. And it really doesn't work. Does anyone know of any products that work and are holistic? I have been searching for a while but haven't been successful.:frusty:


My dogs like the kissable brand, vanilla flavored. Petco used to sell it but i havent seen it there in awhile. I usually buy it online.


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

They are really defensive about the anesthesia free cleanings. It seems like you could do both - the full treatment if your dog needs it every two years or so, and the anesthesia free the odd year along with home care.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I personally think anesthesia free cleaning is not a very good idea. Your little one will have to be restrained and wrapped since there will be no anesthesia. How scary for them.. There is probing with sharp instruments. The chance of injury to to delicate tissue and infection.


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## Naturelover (Nov 30, 2013)

Archer is only 8.5 months old, and I did have his teeth scaled/polished when he was neutered. I have been brushing several times a week but he is still getting used to it, and the plaque seemed to be coming back. I have given him raw bones but he doesn't seem to chew them with great gusto. I haven't given chicken necks yet as I am leaving him off chicken for a while before reintroducing it. I bought a smoked beef knee, and carefully supervised him with it. He chewed it for 2 solid hours and his teeth, especially the upper, outer molars, look much cleaner than before. Something about the shape of the knee really encouraged him to use those teeth. He managed to scrape off a layer all around the outside of the bone, but no large chunks seemed to be able to come off of it. 

I'm sure there are also many bad stories about smoked bones, but at this point, I feel comfortable offering it once a week or so under supervision as I really want to make sure his teeth stay in good shape. I still need to make sure it all comes out the other end ok. 

It seems like he may have a mouth more prone to this kind of buildup, although his teeth are not particularly crowded and he is actually missing a few teeth.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

MarinaGirl said:


> Just because a dog's teeth are white doesn't guarantee his teeth are healthy.
> 
> Info from American Veterinary Dental College (AVDC):
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I can justify the risk of anesthesia on the off chance that there is a problem with teeth when my very good vet says his teeth are fine.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

We all must do our own research and make our own careful decisions about what's best for our beloved pets. In animals, just like in people, good oral health is conducive to overall health and quality of life. fMy view is that after 5+ years, the chances of a dog having plaque and tartar below the gum line is greater than the risk of anesthesia done by a vet accredited by the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA).

Below is info from a couple of sources that I hope will alleviate concerns about canine anesthesia.

From the American Veterinary Dental College (AVDC):

*Anesthesia for Veterinary Dental Patients*

Fear of general anesthesia is a natural concern voiced by many owners when a dental procedure is recommended. However, the risk of chronic oral infection, for example, is far greater than the risk of an anesthetic complication.

Appropriately administered general anesthesia entails extremely low risk for the patient, as a result of a combination of pre-anesthetic assessment of the patient (including blood tests or other tests as indicated), use of modern anesthetic agents and local anesthetic blocks (which minimizes the depth of general anesthesia required), plus modern anesthetic monitoring equipment. Many patients are awake and standing within 15-20 minutes of completion of the procedure and go home the same day.

From Dr. Karen Becker, DVM:

*For Pet Owners Who Are Apprehensive About General Anesthesia*

If you're nervous about anesthesia for your cat or dog - and most people are, especially those with older pets - you should know that it's actually quite safe when performed according to current standards.

The reason senior pets are handled more cautiously for anesthesia is because they are more likely to have a systemic illness. That's why additional tests are run on older pets prior to scheduling procedures requiring anesthesia. These tests usually include a complete blood panel, urinalysis, chest x-rays and a BNP test which checks for certain forms of heart disease.

If your pet's test results show no problems with her general health, there is no increased risk for anesthesia. And even if there are some borderline numbers in an animal's test results, we must weigh the benefits of creating and maintaining good oral health against the potential risks associated with anesthesia.

A well-trained, skilled and experienced veterinary staff, following the most current standards of practice, can safely anesthetize senior and geriatric pets, as well as pets with significant systemic disease. By using the latest anesthetic monitoring equipment, pets can benefit from the same diagnostics as people undergoing anesthesia. Make sure to check with your vet about how anesthetic monitoring is performed during your pet's procedure and recovery period.
*
Benefits of General Anesthesia with Intubation for Dental Patients*

Anesthetizing a cat or dog prior to a dental procedure offers a number of benefits, including:

- Immobilizes the animal to insure his safety and cooperation during a confusing, stressful procedure.
- Provides for effective pain management during the procedure.
- Allows for a careful and complete examination of all surfaces inside the oral cavity, as well as the taking of x-rays.
- Permits the veterinarian to probe and scale as deeply as necessary below the gum line where 60 percent or more of plaque and tartar accumulates.

Intubation while the patient is under general anesthesia protects the trachea and prevents aspiration of water and oral debris.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yes I agree, the risk is very small according to my three vets.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I understand Karen's concern with anesthesia. There is always a minimal risk with us and our pets. That is why I wanted to be with Scout during his cleaning. Our pet hospital allows it clients to be with their pet to observe. He was on monitors throughout the procedure and woke up immediately after being extubated. We went home a few hours later. I was impressed with the care he received. He was only 1 1/2 yrs and his teeth were perfect before the cleaning. After x-rays they were able to show me where I could brush the lower front teeth better to prevent problems in the future. Our pets really do need regular dental care, just like us  My first Havanese had dental problems when he was older and it was a very difficult time


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I think a professional cleaning is SUPER important to their health, for all the obvious reasons that apply to humans..that dental disease can also cause other health problems, etc.

We found out that Gucci had a cracked tooth (a back molar) when we took her in a few months ago to have her teeth cleaned. It was a crack that they did not see (and could not see) in any regular exam and they had to extract the tooth. But since then, she hasn't experienced any bouts of pain that she would have before (whimpering and walking in circles and laying on my chest and shaking and crying) I always thought that it was her stomach that would hurt her because it would usually happen after she had her treats and I thought it was from eating too fast…but turns out it was a tooth causing her all that pain 

It wouldn't happen every week, or month for that matter..I think she learned to live with the pain or eat with the other side of her mouth but we never would've known unless we had her teeth deep cleaned.

I still use the pets life gel, which the vet says her teeth look great. she still hates it. lol

Kara


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

Interestingly enough, we are having a guest speaker at our kennel club meeting this Monday evening who is a veterinary critical care nurse and the subject is, "When your dog needs anesthesia, what questions should you ask"? Sounds like a great topic and I will be listening intently.

In his 17+ years, Tyler has only had his teeth cleaned once and it was about 4 years ago or so. I have always brushed them daily and he loves it. When he had his 17 yr check-up, the vet said he has the teeth of a 4 yr old. He also has all his teeth, except for the three front ones he knocked out when he smashed into the steps last year due to his poor vision.


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## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

We started brushing Coco's teeth around age 5 and he loved it. We used Chicken tooth paste. He did not do well with the Vet putting him under and it was so easy to brush them every night. His teeth looked liked he had been to an orthodontist they were so perfect. Good luck with those products. I will keep the names for our new puppy.


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## Parrothedd (Oct 1, 2014)

*Coco's perfect teeth*

Coco had teeth that were perfect. They looked like he had been to an orthodontist. He did not do well with the Vet cleanings and we did not like to put in out to do it. So we started brushing every night with Chicken tooth paste. We did it the same time every night and he was very cooperative. Start out with a little on your finger and call it a treat and then gradually work the brush into the routine.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Beautiful boy


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

sandypaws said:


> Interestingly enough, we are having a guest speaker at our kennel club meeting this Monday evening who is a veterinary critical care nurse and the subject is, "When your dog needs anesthesia, what questions should you ask"? Sounds like a great topic and I will be listening intently.
> 
> In his 17+ years, Tyler has only had his teeth cleaned once and it was about 4 years ago or so. I have always brushed them daily and he loves it. When he had his 17 yr check-up, the vet said he has the teeth of a 4 yr old. He also has all his teeth, except for the three front ones he knocked out when he smashed into the steps last year due to his poor vision.


You must have been reading my mind - I was going to ask you about Tyler's teeth.
Henry has had his teeth cleaned once, at 6 yrs old. I may do it again now, at age 8, as he has a growth on his head that could come off under anesthesia. I figure, well let;s do the teeth again.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

gelbergirl said:


> You must have been reading my mind - I was going to ask you about Tyler's teeth.
> Henry has had his teeth cleaned once, at 6 yrs old. I may do it again now, at age 8, as he has a growth on his head that could come off under anesthesia. I figure, well let;s do the teeth again.


Yes, I agree, I would certainly have it done prophylactically if my dog was going to be under anesthesia anyway, as long as there wasn't any medical reason to avoid it at that time.


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