# 95% Potty Trained



## SmokyFan (Jan 12, 2022)

Our Havanese, Smoky, turned six months old yesterday. He goes 7-8 days without an accident since mid-Feb. We can't seem to get over that hump. He did make it two weeks on two separate occasions but lately we are stuck in this weekly accident. 

He rings a bell to go out, we set a timer and he responds very well to praise. We started the timer at 30 minutes when we got him at eight weeks and gradually progressed to 75 minutes, where we are stuck.

His accident this morning (his first in 8 days) was before the timer had gone off and he never rang the bell. We don't punish, shame or scold him. We simply take him outside, clean up the mess and try to adapt our own routine to what he needs. He's very smart...sits, lies down, rings bell, sticks his nose out for a kiss and sits pretty all on command. 

Any suggestions for getting him over that hump? Or is this something that I should accept happens for a six-month old puppy and not get discouraged? We love him and think he's a fantastic addition to our family, but I'd love to tie up this loose end!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Six months is VERY young to be expecting him to be reliably telling you when he needs to go out. At that age, you are still establishing good habits. So it is still YOUR responsibility to get him outside before he has a chance to make a mistake. Do not depend on him ringing bells at this point!


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## SmokyFan (Jan 12, 2022)

krandall said:


> Six months is VERY young to be expecting him to be reliably telling you when he needs to go out. At that age, you are still establishing good habits. So it is still YOUR responsibility to get him outside before he has a chance to make a mistake. Do not depend on him ringing bells at this point!


Thank you--that's reassuring!


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## LWalks (Feb 7, 2021)

I’d also add that confinement was our best friend in that 6-8 month old period, as it helped her build her bladder control and helped her be more reliable about telling us when she needed to go rather than ‘meh, guess I’ll just go over here!’ Our girl is now almost 10 months, and we still have to keep in mind that it’s our responsibility to get her out in time— she had her first accident in 3 months this weekend, and it happened mid-zoomies… afterwards, we realized she hadn’t been out in well over 3 hours, so even though she hadn’t told us (which she has been very reliable about for the last 2 months) we shouldn’t have let her start a wild play session without going out first. It was a clear accident as she peed mid-sprint, whereas she generally goes in a neat little puddle. We were disappointed of course, but really disappointed in ourselves, as we should have known better!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Depending on your setup and where he is going potty, I would give him access to less space. As an example, two rooms of an open floor plan may be too much. If it means he doesnt have access to the door yet, maybe wait on expecting his cues. He’ll either find other ways to tell you, or once he’s ready for that room he’ll go back to giving you cues again. Personally I think it’s much easier on us to set a timer or set up routine than watch for cues, and you aren’t discouraging him giving you cues in the future. We did bell training and I read that it works best if you wait until they’re fully trained. I did start ringing the bell as we went out before he was fully trained, just to start making the association. Sundance picked it up quickly but usually he was telling me he needed an extra trip. It wouldn’t make sense for us to wait until he tells us, even as an adult, because it’s just part of our routine to go out at certain times during the day. It’s nice to have a way he can communicate if someone has forgotten or he drank extra water or something, but it’s not critical. 

I did room specific potty training so Sundance was potty trained in my bedroom and our main living area where he spent the most time pretty quickly. It took longer to give him supervised exposure to the other rooms in my house. It was gradual, but he could be free within most of the rooms in my house long before I started opening up a second room, which wasn’t until after he was a year old. To me that was the real test of potty training, and there wasn’t any reason to rush it because he was holding it for long blocks of time.

I sort of picture the space where a puppy is potty trained as a bubble relative to the puppy and the place where he spends the most time. The space grows as he grows and generalizes his potty training skills, and spends more time in other places. I don’t know if this part is true, but I also have this idea that if a puppy has the capacity to hold it longer, he’ll reach that potential faster in a space that’s on the smaller side. For me it’s easier to contain a puppy to a smaller space and be completely confident I don’t have to take them out as frequently vs. allowing more space to wander and constantly being on alert to take them out more often. I was reminded of this when I started opening up more space to Sundance after he was a year old, because I went from being being completely confident in his potty training to constantly on alert for a while, just in case. It went pretty well, but it reminded me that feeling with a young puppy is not fun


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## SmokyFan (Jan 12, 2022)

LWalks said:


> I’d also add that confinement was our best friend in that 6-8 month old period, as it helped her build her bladder control and helped her be more reliable about telling us when she needed to go rather than ‘meh, guess I’ll just go over here!’ Our girl is now almost 10 months, and we still have to keep in mind that it’s our responsibility to get her out in time— she had her first accident in 3 months this weekend, and it happened mid-zoomies… afterwards, we realized she hadn’t been out in well over 3 hours, so even though she hadn’t told us (which she has been very reliable about for the last 2 months) we shouldn’t have let her start a wild play session without going out first. It was a clear accident as she peed mid-sprint, whereas she generally goes in a neat little puddle. We were disappointed of course, but really disappointed in ourselves, as we should have known better!


I appreciate your advice--thank you! I may need to think about more confinement.


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## SmokyFan (Jan 12, 2022)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Depending on your setup and where he is going potty, I would give him access to less space. As an example, two rooms of an open floor plan may be too much. If it means he doesnt have access to the door yet, maybe wait on expecting his cues. He’ll either find other ways to tell you, or once he’s ready for that room he’ll go back to giving you cues again. Personally I think it’s much easier on us to set a timer or set up routine than watch for cues, and you aren’t discouraging him giving you cues in the future. We did bell training and I read that it works best if you wait until they’re fully trained. I did start ringing the bell as we went out before he was fully trained, just to start making the association. Sundance picked it up quickly but usually he was telling me he needed an extra trip. It wouldn’t make sense for us to wait until he tells us, even as an adult, because it’s just part of our routine to go out at certain times during the day. It’s nice to have a way he can communicate if someone has forgotten or he drank extra water or something, but it’s not critical.
> 
> I did room specific potty training so Sundance was potty trained in my bedroom and our main living area where he spent the most time pretty quickly. It took longer to give him supervised exposure to the other rooms in my house. It was gradual, but he could be free within most of the rooms in my house long before I started opening up a second room, which wasn’t until after he was a year old. To me that was the real test of potty training, and there wasn’t any reason to rush it because he was holding it for long blocks of time.
> 
> I sort of picture the space where a puppy is potty trained as a bubble relative to the puppy and the place where he spends the most time. The space grows as he grows and generalizes his potty training skills, and spends more time in other places. I don’t know if this part is true, but I also have this idea that if a puppy has the capacity to hold it longer, he’ll reach that potential faster in a space that’s on the smaller side. For me it’s easier to contain a puppy to a smaller space and be completely confident I don’t have to take them out as frequently vs. allowing more space to wander and constantly being on alert to take them out more often. I was reminded of this when I started opening up more space to Sundance after he was a year old, because I went from being being completely confident in his potty training to constantly on alert for a while, just in case. It went pretty well, but it reminded me that feeling with a young puppy is not fun


These are helpful tips! I am going to have to think this through a little bit. We have a pretty open floor plan and while I can easily close bedroom doors, it's harder to keep him in one spot in our living areas. But I definitely see how that could help! We have an exercise pen, so maybe I could use that (we primarily use it for when we are gone and he has never had an accident there). 

What about treats for going out? We haven't done that, because our last dog (a lab) would want to run outside just to come in and get a treat. And our Havanese seems more motivated by praise than treats so we haven't used it so far. Am I thinking about that the right way? 

Thanks for all the advice!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SmokyFan said:


> These are helpful tips! I am going to have to think this through a little bit. We have a pretty open floor plan and while I can easily close bedroom doors, it's harder to keep him in one spot in our living areas. But I definitely see how that could help! We have an exercise pen, so maybe I could use that (we primarily use it for when we are gone and he has never had an accident there).
> 
> What about treats for going out? We haven't done that, because our last dog (a lab) would want to run outside just to come in and get a treat. And our Havanese seems more motivated by praise than treats so we haven't used it so far. Am I thinking about that the right way?
> 
> Thanks for all the advice!


Treats for potting won't hurt. Treats for"going out" will DEFINITELY not help. And unless you are going out WITH him and treating for the actual "event" treating for him going through the door will have absolutely NO carry-over to potting in his mind. The treat is associated to what he is doing when you give it to him.

And as far as the idea that "our Havanese seems more motivated by praise than treats," Don't kid yourself. If this is the case, you aren't using the right treats. . Dogs are dogs, and food treats are EXTREMELY valuable if they are the RIGHT food treats. HOWEVER, if they are not used at the right time, in the right way, they will not reinforce the behavior you are trying to reinforce.


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## SmokyFan (Jan 12, 2022)

krandall said:


> Treats for potting won't hurt. Treats for"going out" will DEFINITELY not help. And unless you are going out WITH him and treating for the actual "event" treating for him going through the door will have absolutely NO carry-over to potting in his mind. The treat is associated to what he is doing when you give it to him.
> 
> And as far as the idea that "our Havanese seems more motivated by praise than treats," Don't kid yourself. If this is the case, you aren't using the right treats. . Dogs are dogs, and food treats are EXTREMELY valuable if they are the RIGHT food treats. HOWEVER, if they are not used at the right time, in the right way, they will not reinforce the behavior you are trying to reinforce.


Ha! I'm sure you're right. In fact, we got him some kind of doggy cookie for Easter at our pet store and for the first time he was going NUTS over a treat. He hasn't liked anything else all that much...people gave us tons of puppy treats as gifts when we got him and he was not interested in any of them.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

SmokyFan said:


> Ha! I'm sure you're right. In fact, we got him some kind of doggy cookie for Easter at our pet store and for the first time he was going NUTS over a treat. He hasn't liked anything else all that much...people gave us tons of puppy treats as gifts when we got him and he was not interested in any of them.


Forget "puppy treats". Real meat! Boiled chicken, Fresh pet dog food cubed in little pieces, tiny pieces of steak or pork roast, meat baby food in a squeeze tube (this is a favorite of mine with very small puppies, because you can squeeze out a tiny bit at a time!) People try to feed little puppies cardboard, then say they "don't like treats"!


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## SmokyFan (Jan 12, 2022)

krandall said:


> Forget "puppy treats". Real meat! Boiled chicken, Fresh pet dog food cubed in little pieces, tiny pieces of steak or pork roast, meat baby food in a squeeze tube (this is a favorite of mine with very small puppies, because you can squeeze out a tiny bit at a time!) People try to feed little puppies cardboard, then say they "don't like treats"!


Interesting! Okay, the squeeze tube might be the thing. Thanks!


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## Steward Robbins (Sep 21, 2018)

We have been very lucky with six month old Pippin, who we have had for a week. I expected to have accidents here for a while, as he was used to a dog door and could go outside at will, never having to cue anyone. We don't have a dog door. He seemed to learn how to signal us to get out almost immediately. We had an accident the day he arrived, and two the next day, but it was clear to both of us that he had signaled and we had missed it. He has continued to give very clear signals every time he wants to go out. We take him out after meals, drinks, and naps, but otherwise he tells us. We are clicker trainers, and with dogs in the past that weren't getting it, we went out armed with the clicker and treats. Pippin hasn't needed that so far. We have started clicking for other behaviors, and he catches on very quickly. We keep all the doors closed where we aren't, but we started doing that to protect tp and Kleenex from his attacks on them. The constant supervision has probably helped as well. Also, he is teething so we need to stop his chewing on non-toys. You just have to supervise puppies for a long time. Fortunately we are retired and can do that easily. Karen is spot on - you reward for the behavior you want, not for going out the door.


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## SmokyFan (Jan 12, 2022)

SmokyFan said:


> Interesting! Okay, the squeeze tube might be the thing. Thanks!
> [/QUOTE





Steward Robbins said:


> We have been very lucky with six month old Pippin, who we have had for a week. I expected to have accidents here for a while, as he was used to a dog door and could go outside at will, never having to cue anyone. We don't have a dog door. He seemed to learn how to signal us to get out almost immediately. We had an accident the day he arrived, and two the next day, but it was clear to both of us that he had signaled and we had missed it. He has continued to give very clear signals every time he wants to go out. We take him out after meals, drinks, and naps, but otherwise he tells us. We are clicker trainers, and with dogs in the past that weren't getting it, we went out armed with the clicker and treats. Pippin hasn't needed that so far. We have started clicking for other behaviors, and he catches on very quickly. We keep all the doors closed where we aren't, but we started doing that to protect tp and Kleenex from his attacks on them. The constant supervision has probably helped as well. Also, he is teething so we need to stop his chewing on non-toys. You just have to supervise puppies for a long time. Fortunately we are retired and can do that easily. Karen is spot on - you reward for the behavior you want, not for going out the door.


That is wonderful that things are going so well for your little guy!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

SmokyFan said:


> These are helpful tips! I am going to have to think this through a little bit. We have a pretty open floor plan and while I can easily close bedroom doors, it's harder to keep him in one spot in our living areas. But I definitely see how that could help! We have an exercise pen, so maybe I could use that (we primarily use it for when we are gone and he has never had an accident there).


I would buy an inexpensive wire ex pen if you can, Midwest brand or generic, separate from your regular expen so you can keep that set up how it is now, since it’s working well when you aren’t home. 
The wire ex pens can be stretched open like an accordion to create temporary barriers and they really helped with my somewhat open floor plan. I still find them incredibly useful with my adult Havanese and i eventually ended up with a few. In the last year I’ve used it so that Sundance could hang out with me in the garage with the door open while I was painting, and in part of my yard where there isn’t a fence. I have a couple of permanent wood barriers that are nicer, but the flexibility of a wire expen was so helpful to me between ages 6 months and 1 1/2 years.

it definitely depends on the puppy, but I didn’t always need hard and fast, perfect barriers when I was home and nearby. I could stretch out my expen between my family and dining room and there was still a small gap at the end that Sundance could have fit through if he really tried. But the barrier was enough of a message to keep him from scavenging for crumbs in the dining area, and I wasn’t leaving him alone this way. It helped in the stage where he was old enough to hang out in the same room as us without the expen, our eyes weren’t necessarily glued to him but we were still keeping an eye on him, and we needed a way to control the environment so that he didn’t have too much freedom too early. Being creative with furniture placement and other items can help, too. I moved a sofa that floats in the room against a wall for a while because Sundance peed behind it when I tried to open up the room to him. It didn’t look great, but it was temporary. After a short time, maybe a couple of weeks, he was laying where the sofa had been and there hadn’t been any more accidents, so I moved it back. Then I made a point to play with him behind the sofa a few times so that he’d see it as a play place and part of the room, not a pee place. I was a little paranoid about area rugs, and playing with him and giving him treats on them worked for area rugs, too.

Good luck! I really think this period makes a huge difference with potty training. They “get it,” it’s a lot easier, but they’re still generalizing.


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## SmokyFan (Jan 12, 2022)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I would buy an inexpensive wire ex pen if you can, Midwest brand or generic, separate from your regular expen so you can keep that set up how it is now, since it’s working well when you aren’t home.
> The wire ex pens can be stretched open like an accordion to create temporary barriers and they really helped with my somewhat open floor plan. I still find them incredibly useful with my adult Havanese and i eventually ended up with a few. In the last year I’ve used it so that Sundance could hang out with me in the garage with the door open while I was painting, and in part of my yard where there isn’t a fence. I have a couple of permanent wood barriers that are nicer, but the flexibility of a wire expen was so helpful to me between ages 6 months and 1 1/2 years.
> 
> it definitely depends on the puppy, but I didn’t always need hard and fast, perfect barriers when I was home and nearby. I could stretch out my expen between my family and dining room and there was still a small gap at the end that Sundance could have fit through if he really tried. But the barrier was enough of a message to keep him from scavenging for crumbs in the dining area, and I wasn’t leaving him alone this way. It helped in the stage where he was old enough to hang out in the same room as us without the expen, our eyes weren’t necessarily glued to him but we were still keeping an eye on him, and we needed a way to control the environment so that he didn’t have too much freedom too early. Being creative with furniture placement and other items can help, too. I moved a sofa that floats in the room against a wall for a while because Sundance peed behind it when I tried to open up the room to him. It didn’t look great, but it was temporary. After a short time, maybe a couple of weeks, he was laying where the sofa had been and there hadn’t been any more accidents, so I moved it back. Then I made a point to play with him behind the sofa a few times so that he’d see it as a play place and part of the room, not a pee place. I was a little paranoid about area rugs, and playing with him and giving him treats on them worked for area rugs, too.
> ...


Thank you! I have not seen this wire type of pen, but I will look into it! It sounds like it might be really helpful. And thanks for the encouragement.


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