# Is it hopeless?? Please say "No"...



## Pepper & Honey's Mom (Dec 8, 2006)

We rescued two very sweet girls in August. They are approx. 1 and 3 yrs old. 

The problem is that they are STILL not dependable in the house as far as having accidents. At night, and any time we leave home, they are in a kennel. Yet they still "go" in the house the rest of the time. We take them out to their "potty area" of the backyard frequently, and sometimes they'll go, and sometimes they won't....But it really doesn't seem to matter!! And the times when they do go in the house, they are usually right with one of us. One of them pooped on the floor right behind me while I was transferring clothes from the washer to the dryer--and I didn't realize it...and stepped in it...and tracked it all over the house before I realized what happened--Gross. They will even perch up on the back of the couch to poop !! As soon as we notice anything happening, we always grab them, and race to the backdoor--trying not to show any emotion (like anger, for instance  ). They still NEVER run to the back door, or act like they need to go until it is actually coming out. Some days are very good, and some are VERY bad. I'm trying to be optimistic, but I really thought they'd be a little more dependable by this point. I'm starting to worry that perhaps they are too old to be house-trained, and that we will be dealing with these same issues forever. My husband really likes the dogs, but I'm afraid that he hates the "puddles and piles" in the house even more. He has suggested that they may need a different home if we can't get this issue worked out . These dogs really love me--they are my constant little shadows, and lap warmers. They are so incredibly sweet. Please help me find a way to make this work....


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Pepper and Honey's Mom: Just before I got Sam, his breeder sent me an article on rescued malteses and how to house train. It was a long involved process, but if I can find it on the computer can I send it to you? It is too long to post on the forum. But involved a puppy mill of Maltese dogs that were rescued and were placed in homes, and the method used to house train them. I'll look for it. Let me know if you are interested.

I couldn't find the web site I wanted but found a Maltese Rescue site, Ohio Maltese Rescue. I haven't been able to put the link on here. I'l try some more.

Ok. If you google Ohio Maltese Rescue. Then housetraining 101 there is some good info. Hope it helps.


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## Pepper & Honey's Mom (Dec 8, 2006)

That would be great. I sent you a PM


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

Sorry to hear that you are having problems with potty training. Are you able to have a doggie door? Or leave a door crack for they can get out when they need to? Another thought comes to might if weather allows you have you try leaving them out side for about 30 mins at a time? And do you feed them at the same time every day? And you said at night is most of the time you have a problem how late do you allow them to eat and drink try taking away there water and or food by 1 hour earlier I found that is what help yoda at night. I can not feed Yoda after 4 pm and he gets his last drink of water at 7 pm any thing later than this ends up with accidents it took me a while to figure out what was the best times for Yoda I hope it works out for you and your little ones


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## Pepper & Honey's Mom (Dec 8, 2006)

No, we don't have a doggy door--Our back door is full glass. There is an area where I think a doggy door would be great, but my husband isn't willing to put one there because it would involve cutting through wall and brick--in a very visable area...and we are only planning on living here about 5 yrs, so we are thinking of resale value.

We can't leave doors cracked either because we have small children--and its too cold !!!

On milder days, I have left them outside together for as much as an hour, but sometimes they'll STILL have an accident shortly after coming inside . 99% of the time, we carry them out to their designated area, put them down, and stand there until they go. Honey usually goes "potty" right away, but Pepper has to be really desperate to go.

We do feed them at the same time every day....and water is somewhat restricted as well. Taking tiny sips all day was causing lots of tiny puddles throughout the day. When they don't have constant access to the water, they tend to drink a little more at a time, and urinate more at a time. It helps make their need to urinate at least a little more predictable (sigh).

No, we don't have a problem with accidents at night. As I mentioned above, they are always in a kennel at night, and anytime that we are gone during the day. Bladder control doesn't seem to be the issue at all.

*My biggest wish is that they would run to the back door and whine when they need to go. How can I teach that?!?!?* Any sort of sign would be great really--other than squatting on my floor, of course...


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

THERE


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I would suggest keeping them in their kennels more often during the day. We found with Logan, if he is in a crate in the same room as us, he is fine. And once we take him out & he goes potty outside, he gets to play. If he doesnt go, he goes back in the crate for a little longer. I think it helps them learn to hold it longer too. Good Luck. 
PS You must be a very patient person, as I would most def. get angry if my guys pooped on the couch!!! Not sure I could keep quiet if that happened!


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

THERE IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL. Keep faith there is a nother way of using a doggie door you can buy the ones for sliding glass doors they are a little costly but they work pretty good I think you can buy one for 189.00 at petco and pretty easy to install that way you wont have to cut a whole threw the wall and brick .Once it starts to warm up for your area you can always put a stick in the sliding glass door just wide enought for them to get out that way the little kids cant get out.They always have the ones that go's in your door if you have a door that leads to the area that they go pp at just a few ideas for you I hope it helps


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## Pepper & Honey's Mom (Dec 8, 2006)

*Laurief*--They do great in the kennel at night, but if we put them in there during the day when we are home, they will usually cry. Like I said, these dogs are my shadow, and want to be right beside me all the time. It can be a little annoying at times, but mostly sweet. Oh, and I DO get mad (esp. the few times that its happened on the couch), but I just try really, really hard to not demonstrate my anger. This is something I have LOTS of experience with. With 3 young boys, patience and a good sense of humor are absolutely essential  .

*susaneckert*--Thanks for the idea, but we don't have a sliding glass door--just a regular door that is full glass. I do think that would make life a little easier though....

*reece*--Thanks so much for mentioning that!! I agree that carrying them outside might be part of the issue--That makes lots of sense. The reason that we carried them outside, is because we want them to only go in a certain area of the yard. We want the rest of the yard to be pee/poop-free, so that we don't have to worry about what the kids might step in while playing. It's an area that is blocked off so that the kids can't get into it, but their is a small gap so that the dogs can run into it on their own. We were carrying them out, and putting them down right in front of the opening of that area because we were afraid that if we just let them run out the backdoor, that they would use some other area of the yard. We used to have a much larger dog that used the whole yard at our last house, but these dogs are so tiny that its difficult to even find their poop to scoop it when they go!!! I'll definitely try having them go out the door to their area on their own, and see if that helps. Thanks so much for the suggestion. I don't know why it didn't occur to me?!?!


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

Then the only thing I can think of replace the door with a regular door half glass and half wood then you can put a doggie door in that and save your full glass door for resale perpose LOL LOL


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Dusty doesn't like to go out and do her business on rainy days. We had a wet day last week and she went in the house (after playing in the mud outside, requiring a bath, but not going potty!). I emailed her breeder to whine and she emailed back to watch her carefully when she's out and if she comes back inside without going potty, she should go straight into her crate for half an hour or so and then back outside again. Repeat until she gets the idea. This is similar to a suggestion someone else gave. We haven't had another rainy day here in AZ, but a couple are due this week. I may be trying this, and I hope some of these suggestions help you out! Three young sons and two little dogs that poop on the couch! I salute your patience and wish you luck and much joy from your family!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

How did you potty train them? You might want to think of that. If you never showed them a signal then they aren't going to know to whine. Also always be aware this could be something medical, make sure the dog doesnt have a bladder infection, etc with your vet.

For my havanese Dora, we taught her to hit the "potty bells" (ribbon with bells on it hanging off my back door knob) to go outside. Obviously she wasnt going to associate this on her own. So how I taught her is, everytime I took her outside I would lift up her foot and make her hit the potty bells. Then I would go outside with her and wait for her to go potty. I would then say good potty and praise her "good potty." You have to be very consistent if that is the results you want. Now Dora hits the bells when she wants to go outside and I dont crate her anymore. My maltese Isabelle walks up and barks at you. She taught us before we had potty bells and had a condo on an upper floor. We liter trained her first and then had a house and decided to outdoor train her. A bit of a battle but she learned to bark at us to go outside.

The best part of this is now they both go 'potty' on command. So when we aren't home or traveling. They associate the command with the action. Now they don't have to be praised or treated, but they do it automatically.

When I had my foster Havanese this summer. He came in and one of his issues was not being potty trained/marking. He never had an accident at my house. I just didn't let him. I had him with me at all times and took him out following the same planning as with Dora. I praised him for going potty too. WHen I knew I couldnt watch him, I had him in an xpen in the kitchen. He went to his new home and they didn't have a fenced in backyard but they had him scratch on the glass door and they leash him up to take him out.

I think the most important step with any dog is always be watching them for their signals. If you can't watch them, then you have to place them where they will be less likely to have 'accidents.'

Amanda


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Mine did cry also int he crates, but after a day or two, they realized that it doesnt work, Within a day or two they will stop. Then they will eventually figure out that if they potty outside, they get to play out of their kennel. Good luck to you on this!!!


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## Pepper & Honey's Mom (Dec 8, 2006)

*susaneckert*--Well, we recently remodeled this house this summer, and moved into it...and had just replaced the backdoor during that process, so I don't think we'll be buying a new one anytime soon LOL!!

*DAJsMom*--Thanks! That's a good idea!

*ama0722*--You mentioned not "letting" your dogs have accidents by keeping them with you, but our dogs ARE with me ALL the time!! It only takes a second of me glancing away (like in the story above where I was simply putting clothes in the dryer while they stood beside me) for an accident to happen. It's not like I'm ignoring them as they "sniff and circle" for 10 minutes...and they have been checked out by the vet  . I think you are exactly right though about bringing up "how" they were trained. Someone also e-mailed me some information that also talked about the bell idea. I'll have to do that! We had tried to teach one of our dogs about 9yrs ago to ring a doorbell when she wanted to come back into the house--instead of clawing all the paint off the door. She never was able to get the hang of it! I think the "potty bells" would be much simpler though, and would be a great starting place for us in teaching the dogs how to give us a signal--and having them walk out to their potty area instead of carrying them.

I really do appreciate all the advice. You are all able to be a lot more objective about this than I am....and you all have had such great ideas . Thanks so much for sharing. I'll try to update on how they are doing .


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi Pepper and Honey' s Mom, not sure if this will help you or not - but would you consider a litterbox or a pan with a pee-pad in it? 

When I got Jasper, the only other Hav I knew was my hav-in-law Lucy who was never properly house trained-- and then I went on-line to read stories about this breed being hard to house train- but I fell in love with Hav's --and also they were the only animal in the universe that I am not allergic too. So me and my husband took their small bladders into consideration and also the fact that there are days we are late getting home from work -- so we built a little room in a section of our garage with two pans (rabbit trays from Bass Rabbit Supply) with pee pads in them. Jasper accesses this room (and hopefully cash eventually) through a doggy door. We started training him to pee pads and slowly moved them out into the room. We played the come game in and out of the doggy door. 

Low and behold Jasper has an iron bladder and has decided he prefers to go outside -so usually he waits for us to walk him-- but occassionly he still uses it. And now with the new puppy and us saying "do your biz" all the time not to mention 10 degree temperatures he has used again. (We'll see what happens when I want Jasper and Cash both to go out there) Some people say it's confusing for them to be trained in and out- but we found it worked-- I think the trick for us was to make indoor exclusive for a while. Outdoor will happen naturally, by other scents. (the Dorothy Gooddale book gave us the idea) 

But I was thinking if Pepper an Honey could channel their need to go inside it might be easier for you-- Perhaps a corner of a laundry room? 

The other thing to consider (and I don't know your dogs) is it submissive urination? or spiteful (not paying attention to them) urination? I only say that because those are Lucy's issues. A trainer could help you if you thought that might be the case. 

Good luck, I know it sounds easier than done especially when you are going through it. I commend you for resueing. It will all work out.

Missy, Jasper and Cash.


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## Olliesmom (Sep 29, 2006)

Guess i got lucky with Ollie but We were out every half hour for about 2 months - we work so hired a gal to come in - forced him to wait 4 hours...during the day - when you are home you dont make them do that>>>>so he started learning he had to hold - also did the bell thing - works great but i am firm beleiver of the crate - my philosophy...crp!! crate...routine ...patience..


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Amanda wrote: *"For my havanese Dora, we taught her to hit the "potty bells" (ribbon with bells on it hanging off my back door knob) to go outside. Obviously she wasnt going to associate this on her own. So how I taught her is, everytime I took her outside I would lift up her foot and make her hit the potty bells. Then I would go outside with her and wait for her to go potty. I would then say good potty and praise her "good potty." You have to be very consistent if that is the results you want. Now Dora hits the bells when she wants to go outside and I dont crate her anymore. "*

This is what we did with Ricky. At first, at 9 weeks, we'd have him go outdoors all the time, saying 'outside' every time we opened the patio door to go out. We'd carry him to the grass and/or river rocks in our yard and once he squatted, we'd say "go pee" and GOOD BOY once he was all done. The reason we carried him then, was that he was too tiny to go down and up the stairs from our deck to the yard.

We had a HELL of a time when he was 3 to 5 months, but at 6 months, things starting going very well and we're doing great !  I have more to suggest, but my timer just went off... i'm off to a Physio appt.! lol

later....... good luck!
marj


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Hi 
It seems to me that you might have too many potty rules for these little guys . They need a place they can feel safe and comfortable and get adjusted . Trust me they do want to please you but they need to know what is Ok and what is not .. 
Do you walk the dogs at all . Do they go for walks for exercise . This is very important so you learn to communicate with the dog .. They can learn to go pottty outside out of your yard if you are worried about the little presents. Just take a poop bag and clean up after your dogs .
Do they have specific potty times ie right after meals .. be alert and take them to potty .
Cosmo never fails he goes righ after he eats . I have to extra diligent as my other dog went before he ate . It is hard for me to remember as I get distracted .. 
Maybe you should have an animal behaviourist come to your home to get a visual understanding of your home and your parameters and they can make some helpful suggestions and give you guidelines . It may be worth the one time visit just to show you what will work and what will not work ..
I am having difficulty figuring things out as to where they are allowed to go and do their business and I bet they are confused as well . You say only certain areas of the back yard . ? is this area fenced off or not ..
Have you tried pee pee pads in the house in the kitchen or laundry room . Can you fence off your kitchen and give them one room they can call their own . .
I agree do not carry them to the spot .. They need to get some control back 
You need to keep them away from your couches . 
There are lots of books available also and also articles on line that will help but first I think you have to be clear commited and consistent and have a manageable plan . 
They will get it eventually . These are very smart dogs ..


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Pepper and Honey's Mom, 
How are things going for you now?Just wanted to check back with you.Alot of great advice here on this forum...


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## Pepper & Honey's Mom (Dec 8, 2006)

*Cosmosmom*: I'm not sure what you mean by too many rules? Our whole backyard is fenced, and there is a smaller fenced area where the dogs go potty. It's fenced so that the kids can't get into that area, but the dogs can get into/and out of the area by themselves. We usually just stand there by the gate to their area until they've finished their business, and then they come out and follow us back into the house. I'm also not sure how I could be making them feel unsafe? I guess I need you to explain your perspective a little more.... I haven't been doing a great job of walking the dogs lately. It's been very cold, and they shiver when I take them out. They have sweaters, but they don't seem to help much...I can still see their little tails vibrating . Our weather has been much warmer this week, but my oldest child, husband, and myself have all been dealing with the flu (and two other younger children too), so we haven't been able to take much advantage of how beautiful its been outside. Oddly enough, the dogs haven't had any accidents in the house at all this week. We've been so, so sick....and yet they've been great . Maybe we've been trying too hard? I don't know.

How would I go about finding an animal behaviourist in my area?

No, we haven't used the pee pads.

*Julie*: It's good to hear from you again . Things with the dogs have actually been really good this week--They are healing well now. The rest of us have been terribly sick though. A very rough week. I guess the plus side to all of that is that I've been too sick, exhausted, and busy taking care of myself and the rest of the sick people in my family to cry about Sandy. I do think I'm going to change to a different vet though. I need a little more compassion and sympathy than I've been getting lately . One of the days right after surgery, Honey was acting really weird...I was so scared of losing her too , but she's doing much better now. I noticed you've got the pictures of your dogs up now--They are both so beautiful!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

So sorry to hear you have all been sick.That flu is nasty!We had flu over Christmas,then respiratory etc.6 SOLID weeks we had here with sickness.Out of the 5 of us 1 or 2 sick non stop!YUK!I know what your going through!Hope you will all get better soon.That's great news though about Honey and Pepper! That's your girls! They are healing well,and probably sensing Mom's already busy enough!
You need to make sure you have a vet you like and trust.If that means changing,I wouldn't hestitate...
 Keep Sandy in your heart,not always in your mind...ok? 
Keep in touch.......as you can
Julie


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I am probably getting ahead of myself, and will have a little letdown, but Logan turned 16 weeks on monday and the last 2 days have been accident free!!! We just took apart the pen, as he has figured out how to climb out, so now he just has his crate in the bedroom, fam room, and kitchen. He seems to be figuring out how to tell us, unfortunately a little to quietly, that he needs to go, but if we keep an eye on him, we know when he needs to go! I am so excited - hopefully he will keep it up. 
Pepper & Honeys Mom - You have had a week of no accidents - that is GREAT! It sounds like you are on your way. Once my girls went a week, it was just a matter of a little time before they seemed to be fully trained. Although, do expect an accident here or there, but 1 or 2 a week is much better than 1 or 2 a day!


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## havame (Feb 22, 2007)

Lowes hardware has a storm door thats has a doggie door all ready made on to it.I thinks they are about $175.00 I have one and my dogs love it.Mikey Martin


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## Pepper & Honey's Mom (Dec 8, 2006)

*Julie*: Thanks

*Laurief*: Thanks for the encouragement! I'm hoping this week is a sign of things to come--well, with the dogs anyway, not with all this sickness!!

*Havame*: We have a Lowes in our area, so we'll look into that. Thanks for that info!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Laurie congrats on getting Logan well on his way to being fully potty trained - that is awesome!
As for Oreo, he has YET to figure out he can actually jump out of the ex-pen, and we keep him there, or tethered to us, or in his crate for naps and when we can't keep out eye on him. I have not attempted to let him romp freely in our home. The only thing that Oreo does is whimper when he needs potty, but at times it is hard to tell the difference between him asking for treats or potty. I think I am going to have to get the bells and show him how to ring them. Its been about 5 days since using his pee pad and I am wondering when you all think it is wise to just get rid of it all together? I want him to eventually go outside exclusively. And when do you all find you can give them more freedom, as opposed to tethering him to myself? Just wondering, what are my next steps. So far we are very pleased with Oreo, I just like to anticipate what to do next or what signs I need to look for that show me he is ready for the next step. He will be 16 weeks on Sunday. Time flies!!


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## Olliesmom (Sep 29, 2006)

Ollie uses the bell...I got rid of the puppy pads as early as I could as I did not want him going in the house....the bell thing took awhile - but now he rings it like crazy if we are ignoring him when he needs to go - we have always used cat food for treats as it is tasty, cheap, tiny and he loves it - he is in puppy classes and it works great - he especially likes anything with a fish taste! we still give him one or two kernals when he does his dutie after he comes in - that is when we practice our sit, down and stay etc also..


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Hi 
Sorry I did not mean to come on so strong . It was just hard to figure out the dynamics and the area where they were supposed to go . I did not get it if they were allowed to be inside outside or strictly outside .
That is why I asked about the pee pee pads . Cosmo does both but he feels more comfortable doing it on the pads . I have them right at the door hoping the transtion will be easier . We do not have freezing cold and snow but it is cold at night so sometimes he just looks at me and say i think I will go on the pad . I do not have a problem as I have an idea as to if he is drinking enough and well hydrated . No 2 is a challenge as he is shy so he sneaks it on a different emergengy pad . it is a work in progress .
At least he does not do what ASta did and head for the white carpet . No longer have that I might add..

These dogs are so intuitive and they know when you are stressed . So sorry to hear about all the illness in your family . I went through that just after Christmas and it is not fun .
I think you might be right . You might have been trying a little too hard and now due to the illness in your home your priorities have switched temporarily and their energy has changed and they realize it is time to please Mom and make amends .
Trying hard is not a bad thing I just know that I was the same way and once I lowered my expectations the dynamics changed . My husband would drive me nuts checking for presents all the time . I finally said it is a natural thing and if he goes I will deal with it and clean it up .
I undestand the concern you have about the sofa however that is a bummer . I had a male cat who sprayed all over my living room furniture and i had to reupholster it I could never get the smell out .. 
What we do for our little critters ..
Hang in there - the weather will get warmer every one will get over their bugs and soon you will have more time and a new prespective ..

I can certainly relate to what you are going through with the cold weather and snow I used to live in Montreal . Now living in California I have a tendency to forget about the 6 feet snow banks and 15 below zero . 
Trust me I did not mean to be judgemental and critical and if I came across that way I apologize ..


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

If he has not used the pee pee pads in 5 days, I would say it is time to take them up. I waited about that long & just Tuesday the pad were gone (not that he used them that much) I have gotten Logan on to 2 meals a day now and he seems to have a schedule of when he goes, so we know just when to take him out. He is allowed to run free in the kitchen & family room once he has gone potty. When we are in the fam room, his gated in with us, and runs to the gate & looks back at us, when he needs to go out. Just watch Oreo & keep track of when he usually goes potty. You begin to kinda just get in a rythem once you can figure out their schedule. Good Luck & thanks for the good wishes on Logan!


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