# Groomer wants to do what to where?!



## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

Hi All. I have the groomer coming for the second time tomorrow. She took it easy with Eli in their first session because she didn't want to overwhelm him or cause discomfort, thereby, turning him off to grooming. She said next time she came she would, ahem, flush his anal gland. Do you have this done to your dog? Do you believe this is necessary? If so, is it OK to do to a puppy who's 5 months old? Does it hurt?!

Honestly, how do wolves "flush" their glands in the wild? I'm not saying it's not necessary but sometimes I think we just make stuff up because who would want to do this to a dog?!:jaw:


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

Its really not that big of a deal- I do my dogs myself about once a month during their bath.
Trust me, you don't want to get an abcessed anal gland. Been there-done that. Not fun.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

ewww... the smell!!


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## Buzzys Mom (Sep 28, 2010)

Yeah, you have to do it for some dogs. My older guy Buzzy has never had problems that are too bad- if I see him scooting, then I will express the glands (it's really gross). I just got a rescue that was chewing something fierce at his behind, took him to the vet int he morning, and it turns out he has an anal gland infection. It's not pretty- he chewed all the hair off of his bottom (poor little guy). You can't harm him or the glands by doing it (that I know of), and most groomers do it at each grooming visit (and the vet can do it also if you ask).


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

Sometimes Eli drags his butt across the floor. Is this what you mean by scooting? (Heehee, I love this forum! I get to say pee pee, poo, potty, and now, anal glands on a regular basis. What's not to love?


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes, that's a good sign he might need it!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Ellie NY said:


> Sometimes Eli drags his butt across the floor. Is this what you mean by scooting? (Heehee, I love this forum! I get to say pee pee, poo, potty, and now, anal glands on a regular basis. What's not to love?


ound:ound: Ha - you might throw in weewee, thang, and butt too!! ound:ound:


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## Buzzys Mom (Sep 28, 2010)

Scooting, dragging his butt, doing the penguin walk, whatever you want to call it... it's all because his butt itches. And his butt is probably itching because his anal sacs are full and that feels good on them and helps to relieve the pressure a bit. Just a quick note on it- he may still drag his butt on the carpet for a day or 2 afterwards because the sensation and the irritation from having them expressed is weird to him. My guy only does it for an hour or so after... no need to be worried though if he does it a day or so after.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

here is a good explanation but I couldn't do it. (wimpy owner here) Good solid poops help empty the glands, hopefully avoiding the gross procedure. I had a dog who would get upset and somehow express himself in the car. uke:

Witch Hazel... lots and lots of witch hazel to clean-up afterwards and kill the smell.

http://doganalglands.com/


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

morriscsps said:


> Witch Hazel... lots and lots of witch hazel to clean-up afterwards and kill the smell.[/url]


Kill the smell? Seriously?! I'm gonna uke:


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Until I took over the grooming of my guys, I never let my old groomer express them on any of my guys, and there has never been a need to do it ever with my three. 
If the dog is eating good food, and poops regularly, and solid, they may never need it. My vets feels that unless they need it you leave it alone. - just a view from "the other side of the fence"


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

Let your vet determine whether it needs to be done or not. Most dogs can empty anal glands on their own if need be. If you think its a problem go to the vet. Just my opinion


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Laurief said:


> Until I took over the grooming of my guys, I never let my old groomer express them on any of my guys, and there has never been a need to do it ever with my three.
> If the dog is eating good food, and poops regularly, and solid, they may never need it. My vets feels that unless they need it you leave it alone. - just a view from "the other side of the fence"


I agree! From what I've read, once you start expressing anal glands, you may have to do it periodically for the life of the dog. A few dogs might need that, but many don't.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

I, too, would check to see if he really needs it. But, the butt dragging is a good indication. We have had dogs that needed it regularly (a couple) but most never did at all. Abby is three and has never had the need.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Only one of my dogs ever needed to have his glands expressed (by the vet) and only once or twice a year. The rest seemed to do fine on their own. Occasionally, I have seen Nessie scooting but I toss her out of the house and let her scoot outside. That seemed to do the job.

I agreed that maybe you should wait and have the vet check them on your next visit. Why stir up things if they don't need it?


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## Buzzys Mom (Sep 28, 2010)

The dogs i had before Buzzy never needed it. Buzzy needed it more before I got him on the right food. I don't think I have had to do it recently for him. 

Someone mentioned witch hazel- and that is definitely the way to go. I buy the Tucks pads, and do it with them- no smell, no mess. Also, witch hazel works wonders for soothing hot spots


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

I called the vet before the groomer came to ask if expressing the glands was necessary. After explaining that Eli sometimes scoots on his butt they said it should be done. 

The groomer came yesterday evening. Eli was particularly wiggly, more so than the first time! It took 3 of us (groomer and me or my husband by turns) and almost 2 hours to finish. I'm not even sure if she did express the glands because by the time she washed him (she would have expressed them at this time) we were all exhausted and hot and I wasn't paying close attention. She assures me he will calm down in the future and handle grooming better. I hope she's right.

I asked her to trim about 1/2 inch all over to maintain the puppy look and shave the belly. Anyway, he looks a little like a plucked chicken today and more like a Westy than a Hav (in my opinion). I know the hair will grow in over the next couple of weeks and he'll look more like his Hav-self. I'm going to browse more pictures to find a look a like. With the rain and snow, eventually, coming I don't want his hair too long.

He's a funny looking boy. Yes, he does have a noticable side part and his ears are a little crooked. DH says he's defective and we should return him for a refund right before he smothers Eli with kisses. He may be defective, but he's ours!

P.S. I saw the recent thread about long muzzles versus shorter muzzles. I've seen on Hav with a really long muzzle and thought Eli's was short by comparison. Can anyone tell me if it's long or short by Hav standards from his pictures? Thanks!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Too late - I was going to chime in with I wouldn't start expressing glands until needed either. And then I'd have the vet do it. My groomer does not do this.

Hard to tell on the pictures you posted re the muzzle question..would need to be a side shot I think.

I'm just back from the groomer myself and not entirely happy - she did it perfectly last time...I took pictures of what he looked like after her last groom..and today he comes home poodle - like - side of face too short...you have a westie..I have a poodle..thank goodness it grows.

A note..you may want to leave the ears longer next time to come back to a more Hav look...I don't have the groomer touch the ears at all. Up to you and all in what you like...

But I must say...he has one cute face!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

I guess I would say give the groomer the benefit of the doubt as you say he was wiggling all over, but my SIL's dog came home from the groomer with one ear noticeably longer than the other. I was amazed that they couldn't see that before they let him out the door.
But that aside, Eli is so cute - just want to pick that little body up and give him a squeeze!


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## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

I'll chime in here too - for further info if someone searches for a thread on the subject.

Neither one of my guys (almost 4 & 3 1/2) have had their anal glands expressed. They haven't need it. No butt scootin. When I asked my vet about it, he also said 'don't do it' unless you have to.


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

Sylvia - Thanks! I think you're right. The ears are way too short. I'm going to let all of him grow out a bit and leave his ears alone for awhile.

I don't think the groomer did express the gland because I found him scooting about an hour ago on the rug. He has very frequent, firm poop so I'm hoping they will take care of themselves. He's going to be neutered next month so maybe, if he still needs it, I'll ask the vet to do that when he's under.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Sounds like a good plan all around....you're dealing with short ears..I keep looking at Kipling irritated that the side of his head was cut too close...it makes his muzzle look long and the top of his head look poodle puff-ish...it's silly to be irritated but I am! Thank goodness I know from rough experience it grows out...this is what he's looking like today...and btw..I think the pictures are complimentary....I keep mussing his hair to try to get it to relax from the poof!


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

KSC said:


> View attachment 32841
> View attachment 32842


How do they get Kipling's body to look so smooth and uniform? That's what I wanted but Eli looks like he's been plucked! She used an electric razor to thin his hair, then she used scizzors. Of course, I don't think Eli will stay still long enough yet for it to come out like that but I love it. Kipling is gorgeous even with the lop-sided cut :biggrin1:


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

She uses the buzzers on him but I don't know what else she does...Kipling's hair is like goose down when it's that short..he's incredibly soft after his grooming sessions...I love that...but man I hate his head shape right now...


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

KSC said:


> Sounds like a good plan all around....you're dealing with short ears..I keep looking at Kipling irritated that the side of his head was cut too close...it makes his muzzle look long and the top of his head look poodle puff-ish...it's silly to be irritated but I am! Thank goodness I know from rough experience it grows out...this is what he's looking like today...and btw..I think the pictures are complimentary....I keep mussing his hair to try to get it to relax from the poof!
> 
> View attachment 32841
> View attachment 32842


Kipling! <3 <3
How is it so poofy on his head? Does she like backcomb it or something!?


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

galaxie said:


> Kipling! <3 <3
> How is it so poofy on his head? Does she like backcomb it or something!?


LOL..no..his hair is just so fine so when he's back from the groomer he always has the poof effect....but then...with a poor proportions it's emphasizing it..he's slowly starting to look better but goodness..what a nerd he's been!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Just the other side of the Anal Glands Issue (I like to call them AG's.) 

I have one who needs it done every 4-8 weeks and one who has never had it done. 

Jasper who needs it done, has misplaced anal glands. they are higher and further back than normal, so he can not express his own at least according to my vet. We have tried adding fiber to bulk up his stools but it has not helped, so I think she is right. 

Here are arguments to do it if he is scooting a lot, or licking his butt. 

1) you never ever want them to get so full that they express on their own or even leak. It is the most vile smell in the world and very hard to get rid of. (we have one friend who Jasper can't stand, and the first time he came to visit-- Jasper got so upset he expressed all over my living room) 

2) you don't want them to get full and gunky so they become impacted or infected-- 

3) I think this varies from dog to dog-- but he is probably uncomfortable-- I know when Jasper's need to be done long before he starts scooting because he withdraws. Now, he is a drama king, and very pain sensitive so Eli may not show you his discomfort...but I suspect it feels like human hemoroids. 

A groomer will express them from the outside. A vet will go in with a gloved hand and express them from the inside so it expresses them more thoroughly. I know with Jasper unless they are done from the inside it does not empty them and he will leak a bit. 

Lovely conversation I know, but been there done that. And for us it is worth getting it done.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Sylvia, it looks like your groomer did a rounded poodle clip on Kipling's head! I wonder why since his always looks so good - was it a different groomer? If not, I would mention next time that you do not want the poodle head! I had a groomer that made my poodle's head into a cone, poor thing, and we called her conehead for a few weeks until it got more normal looking and I could trim some off the cone!!!


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Kathie said:


> Sylvia, it looks like your groomer did a rounded poodle clip on Kipling's head! I wonder why since his always looks so good - was it a different groomer? If not, I would mention next time that you do not want the poodle head! I had a groomer that made my poodle's head into a cone, poor thing, and we called her conehead for a few weeks until it got more normal looking and I could trim some off the cone!!!


Exactly right Kathie - the first words out of my mouth were 'he looks like a poodle! This is not a Havanese look! You know better than that!"

Then I showed her exactly where it was too short (beside his eyes) and told her I want a rounder face and beard....So the groomer knows how I felt. That's for sure. She's made a note...

And what's worse is I had taken his photo from his last groom with me to show her how nice he looked last time - what a nice job she'd done. It was the same groomer...I can only think she didn't focus on him this time. She had two wheaton's on the go at the same time as him and maybe we were in Wheaton cut mode...I don't know....


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

Missy said:


> Just the other side of the Anal Glands Issue (I like to call them AG's.)
> 
> I have one who needs it done every 4-8 weeks and one who has never had it done.
> 
> ...


Eli only scoots very occassionally. He's going to be neutered in a few weeks so I'll ask the vet to check his glands then and express them if needed while he's under. I don't know if they'll do that since that might "dirty" the surgery sight but I will ask. I did not know this would be one of the joys of dog ownership. He's definitely added many surprises to my life.


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## LuckyOne (Sep 3, 2009)

My boys do not get their AG's expressed. They are 19 months old. I have never done that to a dog. I take the boys to the same groomer each and every month and the cuts are never consistent. But they seem to like it there and it's so cheap I can't bring myself to look elsewhere. I even take in a photo. Go figure.


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## LuckyOne (Sep 3, 2009)

LuckyOne said:


> My boys do not get their AG's expressed. They are 19 months old. I have never done that to a dog. I take the boys to the same groomer each and every month and the cuts are never consistent. But they seem to like it there and it's so cheap I can't bring myself to look elsewhere. I even take in a photo. Go figure.


I always add that "I don't want them to look like a poodle or a bichon." Sometimes it gets through sometimes it doesn't. :brick:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I've never had to do this or have this done..I don't know why, but I'll count my lucky blessings that her anal glands don't get impacted. lol

Eli looks really cute, I like the puppy short cut, like someone said in an earlier post, if you do want to keep more a hav look, leave the ears and beard a little longer, they aren't real problematic matting areas anyways, well, sometimes the back of the ear..

I have a friend who leaves the leg hair long too (with the tail hair) and they look sort of like lions to me.. 

I think all puppies are probably difficult the first few baths and grooms no matter WHO does it, I've always done gucci's hair and she gave me a fit in the early days..now, she'll walk right up and sit down, they get used to it.

Kara


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

LuckyOne said:


> I always add that "I don't want them to look like a poodle or a bichon." Sometimes it gets through sometimes it doesn't. :brick:


Add shihtzu to that list..I always say no square face...


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Okay, this is the one thing that scares the crap out of me. It sounds sooooo gross!!! I'm even okay with poop, but this... I don't know. I have been planning to do a lot of the grooming myself, but this expressing is definitely going to have to be done by a professional.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I have not had any problems with anal glands on my boys. They have NEVER scooted along the carpet and they have never tried biting back there except for the tapeworm issue. That's another store in another post.

I go by the saying...."if it aint' broken, don't try to fix it." 

Now, I did have a Cocker Spaniel years and years ago and I was at the vet where the Vet expressed the anal glands and it was a very nasty smell, the gland was full and the liquid squirted out at least 5 feet! The stuff is thick and black looking and smells to high heaven!

When you have a Hav, you will be very surprised what you will be willing to do.


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## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

eww. I have never thought of doing this. I never did this to my previous Lhasa ever. Maybe the groomer did, ad I was unaware. However, we just got our Havanese puppy this week, and our groomer told us to never let the groomer clean the anal gland. She is doing research now on whether this needs to be done on the Havanese. I think it probably needed for some, but maybe not the rest. Good food is a must. And maybe her concern is that the groomer often doesn't know what they're doing and to have a vet do it. I am not sure, but she told me not to let them do it.


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## shiggins (Apr 14, 2010)

Hello All, I work for a vet and if you are having a problem with the anal glands it is because there poop is not big enough to express the anal glands when they are pooping. It usually means that there is not enough fiber to make the poop big enough. We recommend that you put a teaspoon or so of canned pumpkin on their food. (the kind u use to make pies or cookies) Most dogs love it and it bulks up the poop and express the glands for them. Hope this he;ps


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## shiggins (Apr 14, 2010)

I found a web site Perritoshavanese.com if you click on See Izzy and walkers litter born on Oct6th and page down to the second photo on the right side of the pictures you will see a picture of Sky Walker sporting his puppy cut. I took this picture to my groomer, I think this is a great puppy cut. they look like a havanes and not a poodle or a bishon.


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