# When to Neuter?



## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

I have confused myself. I always have had beasties. When they reach 6 months, they would get spayed/neutered. I kinda thought that was the rule of thumb.

Now I mentioned that I made Jack's appointment to a trainer. She said I should put it off as long as I could. Jack needs the hormones. He isn't done growing yet.

 but all my other beasties seemed okay.

Then I made an error of looking at the CD thread. Jack has one elbow that is rotated out a little. His wrist is rotated in. The vet told me that she couldn't tell if it was a genetic thing or if a birth defect/growth plate thing. Right now, it seems to be minor and not bothering him. She thought that when he is old, it _may_ cause problems.

Now I am wondering if I should hold out on neutering him. Would the extra time help his leg? Should I try some of the things mentioned in the CD thread first? eggs? supplements?

Ack... I think I will have to call the vet and ask their advice. Like I said, I confused myself.

P.S. Jack isn't being obnoxious or anything. No marking. No humping. He is just reaching that 6 month mark.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I have always neutered at 6 months myself. I always wanted to have it done before any of that stuff started. I have always had good luck too.

I am not an expert,by a long shot,but it seems wrong to think that testes and a bent elbow would go hand in hand to me. I have never heard that before.

Maybe a breeder will post some info here. I'll be really interested to find out their take on it.

Pam-don't worry yourself so much about Jack either. He is most likely just fine and not affected by CD.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

I wasn't worried about it until I saw the CD thread. His elbow doesn't tuck smoothly against his side. It rotates out from the shoulder joint. I will have to look closer the next time I bath him to see if the bones are straight.

Maybe I should neuter sooner than later if it will stop his growth. Jack is already 13 pounds and between 10 and 11 inches. Maybe I should be trying to keep his weight down to prevent added stress.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Pam, I agree with Julie in regard to the neutering. You sure don't want to wait until the bad behaviors begin - better to get it done before.

I love this forum very much but sometimes I think we have TMI and then we freak out over nothing! I've never worried over a dog more than Abby and I've had several small dogs over the years. I have a feeling that Jack will be fine but keep us posted! Be careful - these vets make their money on over-anxious mommies........lol


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> I have confused myself. I always have had beasties. When they reach 6 months, they would get spayed/neutered. I kinda thought that was the rule of thumb.
> 
> Now I mentioned that I made Jack's appointment to a trainer. She said I should put it off as long as I could. Jack needs the hormones. He isn't done growing yet.
> 
> ...


Hi Pam,

I think it's much more important to hold off neutering with big dogs. Early neutering can lead to the dog growing taller and having less muscle mass than he might have otherwise. (this is also true with horses) But these are statistical variations... it's not like Jack will be a giant if you neuter him now, or that he will be tiny and musclebound if you wait and neuter him at a year.

I had Kodi neutered at 6 1/2 months because that's what my vet suggested and what my contract called for. (though I suspect that if I'd had a strong opinion about holding off, the Kings would have been OK with it) Kodi is on the large side, but it isn't from early neutering... He was 6 lbs at 11 weeks... I often read about puppies on the forum who are 3lbs at 16 weeks! Would he have been a little smaller if I'd waited to neuter him? Who knows? More important, who cares? We didn't.<g>

It WAS important to me that we neuter him before he showed any signs of maturing sexual behavior, and he had already started to hump things at that age. I did NOT want to deal with a dog who marked. I found no compelling evidence that it was better to wait beyond 6 months on small dogs, although there seems to be clear evidence to support waiting on big ones.

As far as his elbow and wrist are concerned, I'd talk to June about it and also ask your vet. Of course it's possible that it's genetic, it's possible that it's congenital, and it's also possible that he hurt the growth plate by jumping (or falling) off something when he was younger. As hard as we try to protect our little ones, Hav puppies are jumping beans, and just jumping off a high bed and landing wrong can damage an immature growth plate.

If it was a trainer from Masterpeace who told you that you had to hold off, this is a "cultural" belief there. I love them all, and they are great trainers. But they are NOT vets, and only one of them (that I can think of) is a breeder. There are a lot of things that need to be weighed when deciding when to neuter a puppy.

I think you need to take in all the information you can so that you can make an informed decision. If that means a second opinion from a second vet (and I did that at the time too) go ahead and do it.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

The vet wasn't that worried at all. She thought it might have been an ..um, I forgot the word, drat... in the womb thing. You know when conditions are so crowded, that little bones/joints sometimes get formed out of kilter. Usually it is the tails that aren't perfect. 

One of my neighbors' dogs has a tail that is a perfect 90 degree angle. Cutest thing ever. She was born that way. She nearly pokes herself in the eye every time she wags.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Here is an idea. I keep the appointment and while he is under, have them do a x-ray of the leg. That way I will know and also have a baseline for future x-rays.

I do think I am suffering from TMI.  I never worried this much about my other mutts. Losing Kit (our oldest Aussie) last summer to cancer is probably adding to it. I need a sign, "Spazzy Hav Owner"


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> Here is an idea. I keep the appointment and while he is under, have them do a x-ray of the leg. That way I will know and also have a baseline for future x-rays.
> 
> I do think I am suffering from TMI.  I never worried this much about my other mutts. Losing Kit (our oldest Aussie) last summer to cancer is probably adding to it. I need a sign, "Spazzy Hav Owner"


That sounds like a good plan. I'd still mention it to June though, just for her input.


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

I have a friend who is an IG breeder who spays/neuters her 12-week-old puppies before they go to their new homes. She's been doing this for many, many years and never had a problem. She makes exceptions for dogs who are going to lure course. 

I agree with the above that a larger breed still has a ton of growing left at 6 months, but a toy breed is pretty much done. Unless you have huge plans for Jack to be a top-tier Agility-Champion 10 times over sort of dog, I'd neuter him before he starts to pee on things! 

Remember that not perfectly straight elbows or feet does not automatically mean CD. Some lines or dogs are a bit more prone to toe or elbow out a bit, but their actual bones are just fine. Responsible breeders just don't breed them


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

I have emailed back and forth to Raina, the breeder about Jack. June is co-owner of his sire, Rookie. I haven't spoken with June except to let her know that we chose one of Raina's puppies. June had a litter but they were on the smaller side. Raina's puppies were bigger so we went with her. Jack's dam is also a Jubo-Lee so I feel good about all of the health testing. I would assume they talk to each other. I am not sure how co-ownership works.

It is probably nothing. I plan on taking pics during Jack's next bath.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Maddie just turned six mo old. And we are going to have her leg xrayed. I soaped her down and took pictures of her legs. I posted it her on the forum and a few people took a look they made me feel better that it is not CD. 
I am only getting it looked at to see if it got broken . 
I know what you mean about reading to much and all.


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## Rita Nelson (Jul 13, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> I have emailed back and forth to Raina, the breeder about Jack. June is co-owner of his sire, Rookie. I haven't spoken with June except to let her know that we chose one of Raina's puppies. June had a litter but they were on the smaller side. Raina's puppies were bigger so we went with her. Jack's dam is also a Jubo-Lee so I feel good about all of the health testing. I would assume they talk to each other. I am not sure how co-ownership works.
> 
> It is probably nothing. I plan on taking pics during Jack's next bath.


 I got Tucker from June in 2009. We followed her advise and did not neuter him at 6 mo. but waited. In fact, he was 18 mo. old when he was neutered. He marked once or twice in the house after being around other dogs in 1/2 day doggie day care last winter. A firm no was all that was needed to stop it. He hasn't attempted marking since. He does mark when we take him for walks though.


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## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

I personally struggled quite a bit with when to neuter Eli. Common wisdom says 6 months but I was unsure given what I had read on this forum about postponing neutering. Eli began showing signs of sexual maturity and marking right around the 6 month point. After speaking with the vet, the breeder and others I felt that at 6 months it was time. In retrospect I think it was the right decision for us because we wanted to extinguish those unwanted behaviors. He seems like the same ole' Eli to me. His energy and personality appears unchanged, thank goodness. Good luck with whatever you decide.


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