# Question on deposits



## VE319

I have been reading and contacting breeders in my hunt for the "right" one.

I prefer a red sable, chocolate tri-color...(just like the looks of them)

What happens when you give someone a deposit and they don't have the color you want in that litter?

Some have told me that you get your money back then and others have told me that the deposit it kept towards the next litter, which in some cases wouldn't be for another year. It seems wanting a specific color makes things harder. 

Don't breeders keep a list of people who are interested and just go in the order they went onto the list?

If I was 3rd on the list and she didn't have my color, then wouldn't it just go to the next person?

I'm a little put off by the breeders who don't want to give you your money back. Waiting another year is extreme and what happens if they still don't have the color you wanted?

Everyone who has puppies, seems to sell them as fast as it's announced.
This is why I don't understand why they wouldn't just move on to the next person who wanted one. I haven't run across a breeder yet who had puppies just sitting around waiting to be had. (except maybe breeders you don't want to use).

I'm frustrated with trying to decide who to send a deposit to.


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## Havtahava

Every breeder is different. Some will keep the deposit, some will credit it towards another puppy/litter, and some will refund it. You need to ask specifics from each person. (I think I've only taken one deposit and that was because the family was going on vacation and I was doing the spay for them while they were away.)

Very few breeders work on a first-come, first-serve basis. Most try to match temperament of the puppy to the best home (best for that puppy) on the list. 

Many of us also have waiting lists. We can't keep puppies "in stock" so to speak. If you really want a certain look, especially from an ethical breeder, it may take quite a while.


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## Scooter's Family

We went looking for a female, and my daughter really wanted white or cream, but we got neither!  When we started talking with the breeder she told us not to make decisions until we met the puppies and then decide. She was so right! We got there and she took all the pups and the mommy out of the expen and told us to play with them, pick them up, play with the toys. We did and after a few minutes Scooter walked over to me and once I held him I knew he belonged with us. The kids were going on looks alone, DH and I listened to the breeder talking about temperament and we watched them all for a while. 

So...our cream female turned into a chocolate and white male and we couldn't be happier!!! Good luck on your search and I hope you don't have to wait too long.


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## RikiDaisyDixie

*Scooters story...a good one! Kimberly is very wise!*

Honestly, I didn't care about color...although we did want a girl at first. Riki was the one best suited to us personality wise, and he was a wonderful fit. With Daisy it was a harder choice as several of the puppies were wonderful. I actually wanted an all black...but Alana wanted the little black and white girl...and so now we have Daisy. Daisy's calm temperament actually fit better with Riki's assertiveness. They are a great fit.

Here is the challenge with these dogs, Riki started out black and white...and turned silver...and if you read some of the threads, many of the dogs completely change.

Yes, you might have your heart set on a specific color...but even in the ring, dogs of all colors are winners. You could even find a breeder with a good deposit situation and you get there to meet your perfect puppy, and you could even fall in love with another whose temperament matches you better.

A really good breeder knows that temperament is the key to your lifetime with a dog who could change colors up to three or more times! Your breeder wants to insure a good match, with color actually being secondary regarding being a good fit.

We wanted a girl and didn't care what color with the first. Ended up with a beautiful energetic boy who turned silver. We wanted a an black girl, and ended up with a very calm and sweet black and white parti girl who stayed the truest black.

Good luck. You might just get lucky and get all three...good deposit system, right color, and great disposition for your family and not have to wait too long.

Remember you aren't getting a dog, you are getting a lifestyle!


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## Cheryl

Please do not choose a puppy based upon color. Havanese change colors anyway. There are traits that will make that puppy fit into your family better than others. Breeders are much more willing to work with you on traits than colors.


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## ama0722

I would have to agree with Cheryl. Both the reds and chocolates often dilute so in a year you very well may have a cream dog  But if you pick the right dog, you could have a perfect family member regardless of color for 15 plus years!


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## MopTop Havanese

Maybe instead of putting down a deposit 'hoping' for the right color to be born, you can really research and find the puppy first, then put down a deposit.
Chocolates aren't all that rare, a true red is though- (it almost sounded like you want both in one dog? A red sable chocolate?) and yes most of the time both fade out to much lighter colors as adults. I have seen a couple of adults that have kept their red, but I don't see it very often. So I agree with everyone else. You really should aim toward a good personality fit and let the color come next.
What if you put a deposit down on a puppy that is the perfect color but it ends up being too shy or too hyper for your lifestyle?


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## Paradise Havs

This thread brings up a question that I have often wondered about. Does asking for specific colors or sizes or even gender raise any red flags with breeders?

Bentley was the breeders pick for me and is probably more aloof than my choice would have been. When I decided to add Eddie to the family, I really wanted a female but when I met the litter he immediately came up to me, put his paw on my knee and looked into my eyes. Its been like that with us ever since. When I added Rosie, she was an adult and a personality that would fit into "the pack" was most important.

Whenever I have added a dog I have had such a such an IWAP ache that I couldn't have waited for the perfect color anyway!


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## Havtahava

I knew one breeder (no longer in Havs) that would get so annoyed when people would request a certain color that she would call them shallow and ask if they would only take their kids if they had a specific look. She's no longer around, and while it seemed like a funny response, it was a bit harsh, in my opinion.

I think most breeders understand the aesthetic appeal of a certain look. Sizes requests only raise an eyebrow for me when they request very small. As for gender, I tend to ask questions about _why_ they want a particular gender, because I find that there are many people who are just uninformed and assume a male will be a humper & marker. - as we all know, it can be even more of a problem with a female.


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## Paradise Havs

Thanks for the reply! It must be hard for a breeder to watch their puppies go & wonder what their lives will be like!


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## Havtahava

Absolutely! I try to get to know each family well in advance of the puppy even being able to leave. It helps to ensure we match the right puppy to the right family, and we've built a relationship that will continue long after the puppy joins their family.


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## luv3havs

Someday, I'd really like a red or chocolate - and a smaller one, so I could lift it easily to sit on patients' laps. This of course, assumes that the health is good and temperament a fit. 
I hope no breeder would look askance at me for those reasons.

Of course, family, neighbors and friends would probably think I had lost my mind if I got a 3rd.
DH is as nutty as I, and very helpful, so no problem there.


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## Paradise Havs

> Absolutely! I try to get to know each family well in advance of the puppy even being able to leave. It helps to ensure we match the right puppy to the right family, and we've built a relationship that will continue long after the puppy joins their family.


Perfect Kimberly! If i didn't get this response from a breeder, I'd walk away!


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## Paradise Havs

> Of course, family, neighbors and friends would probably think I had lost my mind if I got a 3rd.


Too true, too true!


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## VE319

*a little frustrating*

I already had a breeder who didn't want to deal with me because I wanted a certain color.

She thought I was trying to breed and not just telling her...lol
I even told her she could keep a pup until it was fixed and then
I would take it. Just like the look of a certain color was all.
Nope! After that she wouldn't even talk to me...she had her
husband tell me that they weren't interested in giving me a puppy.
I found this very offensive!
I hope she didn't put me on some bad person list just because I wanted a certain color.

I find it a bit annoying to have to "interview" for a dog.
I understand that no one wants a dog to go to a bad home.
How many people can afford $1,500 to $1,800 for a dog?
I'm thinking in this price range, most people who want a dog for 
the yard instead of the family wouldn't spend this. I know there are exceptions to this of course.

Also, when my dad got his German Shephard the lady did the same thing.
Loads of questions...so concerned. Did she ever once check up on that dog once he paid her and we left? Nope. The dog is 8 years old now.
The breeder has no idea whatever happened to that dog.

Same thing with my cats. Had to go through this "interview" process and answer all kinds of questions and not once has a breeder ever asked how the cats were doing. I even sent pictures of my bengal as she grew older to show how pretty she was and the breeder never even responded.
I called to ask her if she changed her email and she said "no, I've just been busy".

I guess my frustration is knowing that I'm a good person and the "interview" process kinda annoys me. I understand why...I'm just saying it's kinda annoying.

My dad obedience trained dogs for 25 years. Never grew up without a dog.
Never had a dog who wasn't trained, socialized and wonderful.
Just want to throw that out there for those who think I'm picking by the color. Some like chocolate, some like vanilla.

If it's a good breeder, is there really going to be a "bad" puppy in the litter?
Even if one's more dominant or one's more shy...it's still a puppy.
You can still train it to be the kind of dog you want, if you spend the time and effort needed to do so. This is why I figure that I should get a color that I like.

Just my opinion.
Sorry for the long post....just venting a little (don't kill me now)


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## Scooter's Family

Go ahead and vent, this is a good place to do it. 

This was our first dog so all of the doggie world was new to us. Our breeder wasn't as thorough as many of the breeders on this forum, and she doesn't check up on Scooter, but she's responsive to email. I don't know if all dog breeders are like this or if it's just with the Havanese. IMO, and from what I've read, the people who truly care about this breed are trying to keep them the sweet, loving, beautiful dogs they are through careful and responsible breeding. Breeders, feel free to tell me I'm off base here.

I'd find another breeder who's willing to work with you. Don't give up on these wonderful dogs due to someone treating you badly. Best of luck to you!


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## ama0722

I think you should mesh well with the breeder so probably a good idea to keep looking. But I don't blame the breeder for being honest with you either. I think it sends up a lot of red flags especially with a breed that a lot of profit is to be made from backyard breeders who don't show and health test and just produce puppies. A lot of the breeder (in fact any I would want to get a dog from) treat these dogs like their babies and put in a lot of time, money, and their lives into. As to temperament, it is huge in my opinion. I do a lot with my dogs so I don't want a dog that is too aggressive and I don't want a dog that is too shy. The last puppy I wanted, I wanted it to be perfect for my household and the things we do so I went thru looking at A LOT of breeders and A LOT of puppies. It just so happened he had the colors and markings that are my favorite  But he wasn't the first puppy with these colors or markings that I saw! So I would say keep up the search for the good breeder and maybe look at pedigrees of the looks/colors that you like and maybe contact a few and let them know what you are looking for, in both color and personality


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## Havtahava

VE319 said:


> I find it a bit annoying to have to "interview" for a dog.
> I understand that no one wants a dog to go to a bad home.
> How many people can afford $1,500 to $1,800 for a dog?
> I'm thinking in this price range, most people who want a dog for
> the yard instead of the family wouldn't spend this. I know there are exceptions to this of course.


 Yes, obviously there are exceptions or no breeders would even interview.



> Also, when my dad got his German Shephard the lady did the same thing.
> Loads of questions...so concerned. Did she ever once check up on that dog once he paid her and we left? Nope. The dog is 8 years old now.
> The breeder has no idea whatever happened to that dog.


Maybe she felt she did all she needed in the screening process and didn't want to interfere after that. Who knows.



> If it's a good breeder, is there really going to be a "bad" puppy in the litter?
> Even if one's more dominant or one's more shy...it's still a puppy.


Absolutely. That's the purpose of temperament testing. Not all puppies are "one size fits all." Frankly, I know there are others that are like me - not breeding dogs for the purpose of fulfilling the needs of all who want them. We breed for ourselves, can't keep them all and find the best home *for the puppy*. (Not the other way around.)



> You can still train it to be the kind of dog you want, if you spend the time and effort needed to do so. This is why I figure that I should get a color that I like.


As I alluded to above, every dog has his/her unique personality on top of the temperament that was bred into it. Not all dogs are able to be trained to what you want. Just spend some time reading this forum and how people describe their dogs. You'll see they aren't cookie cutter robots. They are all unique. A difficult situation with a dog isn't necessarily because the owner or handler can't deal with it, especially when you read further and find that owner has two Havanese. If it was due to something the owner can "train to what they want", then why isn't it the same for both dogs?

You do know that most Havanese change colors, right? I think that is the part that gets puzzling when someone gets stuck on a color, no less a color pattern that isn't seen often.



> Just my opinion.


And, just mine as well.


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## DAJsMom

You are looking for a breeder who will give you what you want in a puppy. I don't think you should be surprised that good breeders are looking for what they want in a puppy owner. You should be asking questions to confirm you are getting a good breeder, and the breeder has the same right. Before you enter into a transaction/relationship involving a lot of money and 15 or more years in the life of you and a dog, everyone should be comfortable with the situation. 
Our breeder asked us a lot of questions and had us fill out an application. We asked her a lot of questions also. We checked up on her health testing. We visited to meet our possible new family member (a 2 1/2 hour drive each way). We called her the next day asking if we could have the pup we had seen. She delivered Dusty to our house a few days later, inspected our house and yard, and made sure we knew how to care for Dusty, including grooming. We got an amazing, smart, wonderful, crate-trained, house-trained havanese, and made a friend as well. Our breeder has always been available to answer our questions, respond to our emails, enjoy the pictures we send, help us add a second havanese to the house, and even babysit our dogs when we are out of town. 

I'll add that we did have a color preference. My husband was determined not to get a dog that looks like a cow(B&W parti)!! Apologies to all you who love parti's-- my husband does not!! We did share this with our breeder and she thought it was hilarious and teased him about it, and Dusty happened to meet the color pattern requirement as well! We were prepared to wait much longer than we ended up waiting in order to find the right dog for our family. Color was not the first criteria, although it did play into it some also.
You may have to be much more patient to find the color you are looking for. If you are unwilling to wait to find a good match for you and the breeder that is also the right color, I think you are going to get pretty frustrated.


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## Paradise Havs

There are at least 3 "pet breeders" who advertise in our newspaper. One started out breeding Bichons and when she had a hard time selling $1500 Havanese, started crossing them & asking less! The others seem to have a couple dogs that they breed. They have been advertising pups at $800 since its hard to sell expensive pups. I know for sure that one of them does not require a neuter/spay contract or any contract. A friend talked to her and she said "After you buy her, she's yours, you can do what you want." BTW friend passed! 

If good breeders don't interview & screen buyers, look how quickly breeding can spin out of control!


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## Paradise Havs

> My husband was determined not to get a dog that looks like a cow(B&W parti)!!


Too funny!! Never thought of that! I have always thought "panda"!!


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## Elaine

I find that you have done a lot of research, but you came here asking first about deposits and then were upset about being interviewed. Most of the breeders here would not lose touch with you if at all possible, the internet is a wonderful communication tool and we create groups for our puppy buyers to share pictures and fun adventures. You seem to want to lump all of us in with the experience of you and your families past history. Breeders and Buyers are so much more educated and I like to think that most Havanese people are as sweet and fun as the dogs we have. If you come across someone with the puppy you want and they don't ask questions and want to get to know you better than I would run the other way. We do become your friend and we are there at all hours of the day and night to help you and hold your hand should something happen and you need it, and I am not saying you would. We are actually very caring people besides being breeders. You made a comment on the price people pay and 10 years ago I paid $1,800 for my first Havanese so I don't see any inflation here. The parents weren't health tested and never shown to a Championship but they cost plenty. Most of us show our dogs, not getting any cheaper, we health test our adults, not inexpensive, and we do vet well puppy check ups and the first set of shots, at least, and if BAER testing is available we do that also. We spend so much more money then my original breeder did and we don't ask any more for our puppies then the original breeders did. I love my dogs and I adore all my puppy owners because they are now part of my family if they want to be, I do have some that I have a hard time getting in touch with. I hope that you can find what you are looking for and that your experience is great when you find your new Havanese. Please don't beat us up for wanting to know who we are adding to our families, we do want to match a personality to our new owners. Glad to have you here asking questions.


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## VE319

I'm not trying to beat anyone up....lol

I'm just surprised from my experiences.
All of the breeders I've had over the years (cats and dogs)
no one has ever stayed in contact with me once I left.
Just seems odd to be so concerned before giving you the animal and
then once you leave, they never check on them?

As I said previously, the bengal cat breeder I used didn't even respond
to my emails or updated pictures I sent. Now, I wonder if I was to get another
bengal cat would I use that breeder again? The cat is beautiful, great temperament,
no health problems, etc...but now I feel put off because she seemed to not be interested in keeping in touch with me. Doesn't that seem odd or no?

I guess this is why this a good place to ask questions and see what other people's
experiences have been.


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