# Is This Guilt?



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

This is a follow-up to Linda's post about the guilty look.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

This topic has been debated with much enthusiasm . I put a link to the article by Alexandra Horowitz that refutes the idea that dogs can feel guilt on the post by Linda. When I saw this video I didn't laugh at all. And the reasons were echoed by one of our members at IAABC who also had a response to this topic and this video. I thought her response was good. And with her permission, here is her comments.

While I think it's pretty clear from the research as well as dog 
lovers' experiences that dogs have associations that are remembered, to say that 
dogs have guilt is quite another thing. I agree with the thrust of an 
earlier post that in order for a dog to feel guilt, it would have to be able to 
internalize HUMAN beliefs about right and wrong and have a rather 
sophisticated sense of morality. While Bekoff and others are showing that dogs do 
have a moral code with each other and from a doggie point of view, I've not 
seen anything that suggests that they can learn to adopt OUR moral codes 
of right and wrong. They do build these associations with all kinds of 
minute environmental cues, including our facial expressions, tone of voice, and 
similar environments to prior situations where they were in trouble (as 
noted in other posts). I might add that the "wait until your father gets 
home" approach to discipline does not work well with children either, unless 
you are trying to build anxiety problems in your child. Then it's all about 
the anxiety and avoiding punishment and not about learning to stop the bad 
behavior anyway. (Avoidance of punishment is one of the lowest levels of 
moral development in humans and does not indicate true learning). I think 
the same is true of dogs, but they have less capacity to hold such 
behaviors in their heads until punishment is doled out. Dogs have memories and 
anticipation, but mostly they live in the present (one of their great 
beauties!).

We really don't need to punish dogs for these things - we either need to 
manage the situation (don't leave the steak on the edge of the counter) or 
teach an effective leave-it, even in the absence of human supervision. The 
focus really needs to be on the alternative behavior we want under certain 
circumstances.

As for the video clip of Denver the "guilty dog" - this has been under 
discussion in several online dog training/behaviorist groups, and I think most 
will agree that those dogs are throwing off stress signals like crazy. The 
"grin" is actually a submissive gesture that shows high levels of anxiety 
- I worked in rescue with a dog who did exactly this when he first came to 
rescue. He was inaccurately named "Happy" for his grin, but he was 
extremely fearful of human approach. A few weeks in rescue, and he looked like a 
different dog - truly happy but without his fearful grin anymore. I 
actually downloaded the guilty dog Youtube clip to show to my next 
animal-assisted play therapy training group - for use as an exercise in recognizing 
stress signals! (This video has gone viral because these are the behaviors 
that most people think are guilt!) I'm still not sure why it's "cute" or 
"funny" to make dogs feel this way deliberately. I can certainly cause these 
reactions in my dogs with my tone of voice when they have done absolutely 
nothing wrong, but I don't because I don't want to stress my dogs. We have 
lots more education of the public to do!!

Risë

"Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand." --Mark Twain
"Life is too important to be taken seriously." --Oscar Wilde
Risë VanFleet, Ph.D., President
Family Enhancement & Play Therapy Center, Inc.
PO Box 613, Boiling Springs, PA 17007 USA
717-249-4707
_www.play-therapy.com_ (http://www.play-therapy.com/)

Director
Playful Pooch Program
Canine Assisted Play Therapy
_www.playfulpooch.org_ (http://www.playfulpooch.org/)

Licensed Psychologist (PA)
Registered Play Therapist-Supervisor (APT)
Certified Filial Therapist-Instructor (NIRE)
Canine Good Citizen Evaluator (AKC-CGC)
Certified Dog Behavior Consultant (IAABC)


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I saw this one too Dave It looked like guilt to me!!! LOL

I feel bad that this poor dog was anxious. It almost seems cruel


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I guess the man in the video will know which dog ate the cat treats but watching for who has the poopers! ound:


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Thanks for posting this, Dave. I, like you, didn't laugh at all. It made me cringe to see Denver's reaction to his owner. I have had many friends post this video on FB and all were laughing at the "obvious guilty look". I've commented on several of their posts about the severe stress and calming signals Denver is giving. But, no one has given the slightest clue they've read, let alone understood, what I was trying to explain. 

Your friend is right, "We have lots more education of the public to do!!"


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Leslie said:


> Thanks for posting this, Dave. I, like you, didn't laugh at all. It made me cringe to see Denver's reaction to his owner. I have had many friends post this video on FB and all were laughing at the "obvious guilty look". I've commented on several of their posts about the severe stress and calming signals Denver is giving. But, no one has given the slightest clue they've read, let alone understood, what I was trying to explain.
> 
> Your friend is right, "We have lots more education of the public to do!!"


The old golden looks none too happy either. I want to smack the guy off side the head and say, "Why the heck did you leave the cat treats where the dog could reach them!?!?!?"


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Leslie said:


> Thanks for posting this, Dave. I, like you, didn't laugh at all. It made me cringe to see Denver's reaction to his owner. I have had many friends post this video on FB and all were laughing at the "obvious guilty look". I've commented on several of their posts about the severe stress and calming signals Denver is giving. But, no one has given the slightest clue they've read, let alone understood, what I was trying to explain.
> 
> Your friend is right, "We have lots more education of the public to do!!"


Exactly , both dogs actually exhibit stress behavior and calming signals ,especially the Lab. Everyone on our IAABC forum was digusted. I posted it there yesterday as well. And I;d bet this was staged.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

krandall said:


> The old golden looks none too happy either. I want to smack the guy off side the head and say, "Why the heck did you leave the cat treats where the dog could reach them!?!?!?"


 If you run into him Karen ,give him one for me. I bet he staged it.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

The video sickens me! People are so cruel, they have no idea about animal behavior. So many stress signals were given off by the dogs. 

Yes, the public needs LOTS of education on animal behavior!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

HavaneseSoon said:


> The video sickens me! People are so cruel, they have no idea about animal behavior. So many stress signals were given off by the dogs.
> 
> Yes, the public needs LOTS of education on animal behavior!


right on Linda.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> If you run into him Karen ,give him one for me. I bet he staged it.


You could be right, which makes it even worse.


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## holt24 (Jan 21, 2011)

this made me cry..that guy should be locked in the " penalty box" and I agree w/ you too Karen!


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