# I think I need help with Bumi's Coat



## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

I have been using Spa Lavish Renew Shampoo & Spa Lavish Nourish Vitamin Conditioner on Bumi for a while now. I love the smell and the silkyness of his hair. It really cleans the hair well (much better than the other shampoos) and it smells wonderful. I also use the Fresh Facial scrub for around his eyes and mouth.

The problem that I am having is that he looks electrocuted after a bath. He is as soft as silk but his hair, the torso area is frizzy, very frizzy.

What am I doing wrong?

Is is the Brush? ( use something similar to a # 4 or 5 CC, but a regular store brand). Or is it the shampoo?...
What do you think?:ear:


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

we have a similar thing going on with Tillie, but I know for her, she is MOSTLY silky with the frizzy, cottony coat on her back ... sigh. hopefully you can find something to help!! Tillie is just made that way! LOL


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> we have a similar thing going on with Tillie, but I know for her, she is MOSTLY silky with the frizzy, cottony coat on her back ... sigh. hopefully you can find something to help!! Tillie is just made that way! LOL


Not necessarily! She is still young. When I made a comment about Kodi's middle being frizzier than the rest of his coat when he was about a year old, his breeder told me that that is the last area for them to lose their puppy coat, and that it would probably grow out to match his two ends eventually. At two, his coat is much more even in consistency. It's still a but curlier in the middle, but not much... and they say it takes at least 3 years for their coat to fully mature.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Carefulove said:


> I have been using Spa Lavish Renew Shampoo & Spa Lavish Nourish Vitamin Conditioner on Bumi for a while now. I love the smell and the silkyness of his hair. It really cleans the hair well (much better than the other shampoos) and it smells wonderful. I also use the Fresh Facial scrub for around his eyes and mouth.
> 
> The problem that I am having is that he looks electrocuted after a bath. He is as soft as silk but his hair, the torso area is frizzy, very frizzy.
> 
> ...


It's possible that your brush is breaking the ends of his hair and making him frizzier... it's hard to say.

While Kodi's coat isn't "frizzy" anymore, I did find that parts of his coat were getting a bit dry, especially when we were doing a lot of showing and he was getting bathed more often than usual. I have found that when this happens, Chris Christensen Spectrum Ten Hypro Pac Intensive Treatment is FANTASTIC making his hair soft, silky and shiny again. It works so well that I've started using it about once a month, just to maintain his coat.

You wash the dog the way you normally would, towel dry, then spread the Hypro Pac on any areas you feel need extra conditioning. Then you comb it through the hair, and let it sit for at least 5 minutes before rinsing out.

I don't think I'd want to use it with every bath for Kodi, as I think it might be a little heavy for a Hav coat if used that often. I've also noticed that I need to be careful to REALLY rinse his tail well, because it will weigh his tail hair down if I leave too much on him. But over all, I love the way it makes his coat feel, and I love how easy it is to comb him out when he's been conditioned with it recently.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

krandall said:


> Not necessarily! She is still young. When I made a comment about Kodi's middle being frizzier than the rest of his coat when he was about a year old, his breeder told me that that is the last area for them to lose their puppy coat, and that it would probably grow out to match his two ends eventually. At two, his coat is much more even in consistency. It's still a but curlier in the middle, but not much... and they say it takes at least 3 years for their coat to fully mature.


Well, then there is Hope. Bumi and Kodi are very close in age I believe.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Carefulove said:


> Well, then there is Hope. Bumi and Kodi are very close in age I believe.


I think they are... Kodi's B'day was April 30... If I remember correctly, I think Bumi is a month or so younger? I just remember he was an adorable little puff ball!


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## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

I don't know how old Bumi is, but her coat looks a lot like Baxter's -- who is about 5 months and the same cream/champagne color. I get so jealous when I see all the beautiful, silky coats on this forum. Baxter's is such a cottony mop! But it looks as though I need to be patient and see what's in store in the coming months


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

I have been looking at the CC products and wondering if I should give it a try. I hate purchasing something without seeing it first and the closest distributor is in NJ (2 hrs away).
I think CC's website sells a small sample bag for about USD 10. Maybe I'll give it a try.

I also think the comb I use has something to do with it, since it happens in the areas that I have to comb the most. his head, tummy and legs are perfect.

Tks!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

krandall said:


> I think they are... Kodi's B'day was April 30... If I remember correctly, I think Bumi is a month or so younger? I just remember he was an adorable little puff ball!


May 11. 
Yup, My polka dot pup!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Ok, I just put in an order of Spectrum 10 shampoo (the 16 oz bottle), the spectrum 10 conditioner and the spectrum 10 Hypro Pac Intense treatment.

I'll be sure to take before and after pics of my electrified dog Bumi! :biggrin1:


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Nellie is just over a year old and has the maddest coat!But her breeder has told me that both her mother and her grandmother were slow maturing,and it took until they were at least 3 years old before they developed their true coats,which are beautiful now.Where as Dizzie's coat has always been smooth and silky[they both have the same Dad].Having said that Nellie's coat is far easier to look after as it never seems to matt.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Carefulove said:


> I have been looking at the CC products and wondering if I should give it a try. I hate purchasing something without seeing it first and the closest distributor is in NJ (2 hrs away).
> I think CC's website sells a small sample bag for about USD 10. Maybe I'll give it a try.
> 
> I also think the comb I use has something to do with it, since it happens in the areas that I have to comb the most. his head, tummy and legs are perfect.
> ...


I didn't believe that the CC combs could be THAT much better until I caved and bought one. Now I'd never go back. I like their pin brushes better than any others I've tried too. The pins have more polished tips, and don't seem to bother Kodi's skin the way other ones do. And as far as brushes go, the wood pin brush is best of all, and I don't think any other company makes one.

I don't know that I would have tried the CC shampoo and conditioner products, because I've been very happy over all with the BioGroom products I use. But CC had a promotion where you could get the wood pin brush (which alone usually costs $35 I think) plus good sized bottles of Spectrum Ten shampoo, conditioner and the Hypro Pac. I tried the shampoo and regular conditioner, and while I liked them, I didn't like them any more than the BioGroom products which are WAY less expensive. Then I finally tried the Hypro Pac and was really surprised how much I liked it. I'll definitely buy more when I've used this jar up.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Carefulove said:


> May 11.
> Yup, My polka dot pup!


Oh, so they are even closer in age... not even 2 weeks! Has he held his color as well as it looks in your avatar? I don't know how old that photo is. He looks like he's still got a lot of apricot. I love it!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Carefulove said:


> Ok, I just put in an order of Spectrum 10 shampoo (the 16 oz bottle), the spectrum 10 conditioner and the spectrum 10 Hypro Pac Intense treatment.
> 
> I'll be sure to take before and after pics of my electrified dog Bumi! :biggrin1:


Cool! Let us know how it works! It's always nice to see how products work on different coat types.


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## Ditto's Mom (Apr 29, 2007)

We have been using "Pure Paws Ultra Finishing Hydrating Anti-Static Spray", love it! It has made a big difference in Phoenix's coat.
You can view all their products and also a video at purepaws.net 
The "Ultra Reconstructing Shampoo" is one of our favs too.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Carefulove said:


> I'll be sure to take before and after pics of my electrified dog Bumi! :biggrin1:


Hi, Zury:

Are you saying that Bumi's hair is frizzy or full of static electricity? In other words, is his torso hair damaged [dry, brittle], or is it more fly-away?


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

If it's the silky coat, human hair products work fine. Look for one that does what you need.

Google this: Argan oil

Shop in Sally's Beauty Supply, instead of pet shops. The silky coat is closer to human hair than dog fur.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

krandall said:


> Oh, so they are even closer in age... not even 2 weeks! Has he held his color as well as it looks in your avatar? I don't know how old that photo is. He looks like he's still got a lot of apricot. I love it!


Yes, he has kept his Color. Not as dark as when he was a pup, but you can clearly see the apricot spots. His head has turned white, but his ears retained the Gold and black. Also the hairs under his muzzle are brown with black on the tips (it almost looks dirty) :brushteeth:
He also has some black hairs growing in the middle of his spots.



StarrLhasa said:


> Hi, Zury:
> 
> Are you saying that Bumi's hair is frizzy or full of static electricity? In other words, is his torso hair damaged [dry, brittle], or is it more fly-away?


I say Damaged.



Tom King said:


> If it's the silky coat, human hair products work fine. Look for one that does what you need.
> 
> Google this: Argan oil
> 
> Shop in Sally's Beauty Supply, instead of pet shops. The silky coat is closer to human hair than dog fur.


Tom, Argan is one of the ingredients of the famous Moroccan Oil correct? I actually thought of giving Bumi's hair a try with my Biosilk or Moroccan Oils. Next bath (while I wait for my CC products) I'll try the oils.

Thanks Everyone!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

:whoo: My CC order will be delivered Wednesday. Bumi is getting a nice luxury bath this weekend!!!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

OK, so I couldn't give Bumi a bath last weekend since it rained the entire two days.
I used the CC products today, shampoo, then the deep treatment (no conditioner) and I combed his hair while the treatment was in, then rinsed. I towel dried him and combed again, then I dried while running my fingers through his hair.
It is hard to see the difference in the pictures, but believe me when I say there is a difference.

He does not look electrocuted after his bath today. I believe with a few more treatments and his hair will be where I want it.
Here are some pics.

The first one is about 3 weeks ago (just after his bath)

The second one is today (just after his bath)


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

A few more, just because he is so cute!

The first two pics are of him being a good boy, the last one is him trying to dig a hole through my kitchen rug.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

He looks sooo soft!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Bumi sure is cute. My boys are both frizz balls. But different types of frizz balls... Hard to explain. It appears that Cash has an intense thick coat. But he dries so much faster than Jasper. Who appears to have a silkier, less abundant albeit frizzy coat... I have never found a product that has made Cash not look frizzy... But pure paws shampoo, and coat handlers conditioner makes my Jassy look very silky. A little cc pure silk or eqyss survivor rubbed on damp before I dry him is also terrific (both those may have silicon however). Alas one or the other of us was allergic to part or all of this combo. Pp shampoo made Jas itch. And coat handlers has lanolin which made me itch..and eqyss survivor is just a very intense smell. But it is a great gloss/tamer. 

The best that works for us I all areas is Isle of Dogs, 10 shampoo, 51 conditioner and nothing else. The IOD rep told me something very interesting... That it is the shampoo (theirs anyway) that offers the treatment for skin and coat, and should be allowed to sit for 5 or 10 minutes. The conditioner is for texture and ease of combing. I always thought it to be the other way around. But this method works great for us. 

Of course...my boys are kept short, so I am just running at the mouth..... But the coat handlers I do believe is worth a try.

If you can use human products (I too have curly frizzy hair). I just discovered garnier pure products... The anti frizz cream, has done wonders for me. It was nice to find something that works that isn't a fortune.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Karen did I read that Kodi was a Silk? If so does he have a double-coat? Would him being a Silk make a difference in his coat as opposed to our reg Havs--meaning pet Rosie?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Luciledodd said:


> Karen did I read that Kodi was a Silk? If so does he have a double-coat? Would him being a Silk make a difference in his coat as opposed to our reg Havs--meaning pet Rosie?


Yes, Kodi is double registered as both Silk and Havanese. And, yes, as far as I can tell, he has a double coat, though his under coat is nowhere near as profuse as some of the Havs I've seen. I've also met other (non-silk) havs that have no more, and sometimes less undercoat than he Kodi has. I think what makes Havs (and Silks) coats different than other double coated breeds is that there isn't a lot of difference in texture between the undercoat and the outer coat.

There are a lot of Hav breeders who have exactly the same lines as people who joined the Silk movement, so there are still plenty of Havs around who have the silky type coat. It's all in what the breeder feels is important to focus on in their breeding program. Ther is now genetic testing available to determine if a dog carries the curly coated gene, so breeders CAN remove those genes from their breeding stock if they choose, just as most breeders breed away from short haired Havs. But my guess is that if you like the corded look, you'd be better off with a dog with the curly coat gene.

My personal preference is for a dog that is easier for a pet owner to maintain without HAVING to put the dog in a puppy cut. And that means the silkier coat type.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

BTW... I should add that I didn't know any of this when I got Kodi... i just got lucky with his coat. I didn't even know what a Silk dog was.. I picked the Kings based on the longevity of their lines, the way they raised their puppies and the care they took in health testing.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

For Bumi go to Pawnation.com and watch the static dog video. I haven't figured out how to get it in here. I did manage to put it up on my facebook page. Anyway it is the funniest thing and Bumi looks normal compared to this dog.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Luciledodd said:


> For Bumi go to Pawnation.com and watch the static dog video. I haven't figured out how to get it in here. I did manage to put it up on my facebook page. Anyway it is the funniest thing and Bumi looks normal compared to this dog.


OMG, I laughed so hard with that video! ound:


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## apololaceymom (Aug 27, 2011)

HI, I USE SPECTRUM 10 ON MY HAV. I LOVE IT. TRY THE SILKY SPIRITS TOO..


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

Another thing to think of is how you dry them. If you aim the hair dryer at the skin the whole time, some of the hair dries straight up, causing lots of volume and - poof! 

Blow dry like you line brush. Flip or clip the top 'layer's of hair out of the way and and aim the hairdrier down and very slightly angled in. The air should pass through the coat as you brush. Go top to bottom and smooth the hair down with the air. 

Looking good with the new conditioner (I am a fan of the CC stuff too!) but thought that might help as well.


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## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

I must confess the coat issue in the breed has confused me from the beginning, but I am beginning to see the differences and to realize I am on the frizzy/cottony side and not the silky side of the line. For awhile I was thinking that, when he was done being a puppy, he would miraculously have this coat that laid down and flowed nicely. Ah well.  

Since I spent all -- and more -- of my doggie allowance this month on ex pen/flea remedies/kongs/and obedience training, I decided to wait for grooming fun til next month. But, when I gave Baxter a bath tonight, I did finish with just a bit of my finishing texturizing/frizzie shine product from Aveeda. It made a big difference.

I also discovered a ton of matts on the backs of his legs and realized that, even though I've been thinking I was getting there with the brush when I groom him every other night, I have not been. So, exactly what position do you hold puppy in when you get back there? There were so many (little ones) that I had to clip some away.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I lay Rosie across my lap on her back to do the belly, under-arms/legs, etc. To get the back of her legs I just hold the leg and brush the backside. If there are mats that I can't get out, I usually just snip into them and lose a little hair but then they comb right out.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Narwyn said:


> Another thing to think of is how you dry them. If you aim the hair dryer at the skin the whole time, some of the hair dries straight up, causing lots of volume and - poof!
> 
> Blow dry like you line brush. Flip or clip the top 'layer's of hair out of the way and and aim the hairdrier down and very slightly angled in. The air should pass through the coat as you brush. Go top to bottom and smooth the hair down with the air.
> 
> Looking good with the new conditioner (I am a fan of the CC stuff too!) but thought that might help as well.


 I would love to learn how to blow dry right. Zoey doesn't like the dryer and she wiggles a lot. I was taught to have her lay on her side and do what you just explained she will not lay on her side. I feel like I'm fighting with her to get her to lay down. Maybe just keep trying and she will eventually give in. Are you sure top to bottom? Do you mean top of the back to the under belie?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I wasn't taught how to do anything, just had to self learn and learn what worked for my girl! I will say I owe a TON to her breeder who started the pups young with baths and blow dry! To this day Tillie runs into the bathroom every morning while I blow dry MY hair and waits patiently for me to point it in her direction! LOL
She gets a bath and blow dry once a week and her hair is about 5 inches long now... For blow drying I try to have her STAND as much as possible, although she has learned that when she lays down she can tuck everything UNDER and I can't get anything but the top of her dry! little Stinker!! I have to continually stand her back up! sigh...
I think you just find what works for Zoey and go with it! never mind how it's "suppose" to be done! If it works, then go with it!  just my 2 cents!


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

Suzi said:


> I would love to learn how to blow dry right. Zoey doesn't like the dryer and she wiggles a lot. I was taught to have her lay on her side and do what you just explained she will not lay on her side. I feel like I'm fighting with her to get her to lay down. Maybe just keep trying and she will eventually give in. Are you sure top to bottom? Do you mean top of the back to the under belie?


It is helpful if they lie on their side but they have to be taught to relax. Start with just having her lie normally on the table and softly praise and pet her in a calm, relaxing way. Then she can lie on her side. Then once she's comfortable with lying on her side you can gently introduce some brushing, just a little to start, with lots of quiet, calming praise. Once you can totally brush her out while she snoozes you can slowly introduce the idea of being dried that way. It takes awhile - at a year old Will snoozes while I brush but isn't comfortable with the drier yet. Don't push them.

Clip the top/back hair out of the way but start drying with the belly hair (I actually start at their ankles and work up!). Sorry that wasn't that clear in the first post.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Narwyn said:


> Another thing to think of is how you dry them. If you aim the hair dryer at the skin the whole time, some of the hair dries straight up, causing lots of volume and - poof!
> 
> Blow dry like you line brush. Flip or clip the top 'layer's of hair out of the way and and aim the hairdrier down and very slightly angled in. The air should pass through the coat as you brush. Go top to bottom and smooth the hair down with the air.
> 
> Looking good with the new conditioner (I am a fan of the CC stuff too!) but thought that might help as well.


Thank you Kat, He is due for a bath next weekend. I will try this.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Narwyn said:


> It is helpful if they lie on their side but they have to be taught to relax. Start with just having her lie normally on the table and softly praise and pet her in a calm, relaxing way. Then she can lie on her side. Then once she's comfortable with lying on her side you can gently introduce some brushing, just a little to start, with lots of quiet, calming praise. Once you can totally brush her out while she snoozes you can slowly introduce the idea of being dried that way. It takes awhile - at a year old Will snoozes while I brush but isn't comfortable with the drier yet. Don't push them.
> 
> Clip the top/back hair out of the way but start drying with the belly hair (I actually start at their ankles and work up!). Sorry that wasn't that clear in the first post.


 Thank you  Zoey falls asleep while I brush and comb on my lap. She has gotten so much better at not wiggling while brushing just really dislikes the dryer. We will proceed slowly but surely


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