# Picking the right food for puppy...



## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

I'm trying to decide on a good food for our new puppy.
Right now he's still at the breeders and is eating Bil Jac 
http://www.bil-jac.com/store/products/bil_jac_puppy_food.asp
and it seems like a good food but the closest store to me that sells it is 45 minutes away. I bought a bag to transition with but I would rather feed a food that is available locally. 
I went to a nearby holistic pet food store and picked up some samples of foods that they thought might work for him. 
I have Halo (spot's stew)
Timberwolf Organics (Wild and Natural Dry) 
Fromm (Surf and Turf)
Wellness (Just for Puppy)
and Solid Gold (Wee Bit)
I thought that we'd try them out as treats and see what he thinks of each one. 
I'm open to other suggestions if you have any. 
I'm kind of overwhelmed by all of the choices out there.


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Hi Eva,
You should probably feed your new puppy the same food the breeder as been feeding it for awhile and then if you want to change the food you should introduce small amounts slowly of the new food.

My second havanese dog was sensitive to alot of different types of food and as soon as I switched her to a different food than what the breeder was feeding her she had problems. I would not recommend too many treats at first but lots of chews. Get some Merrick flossies for chews.

All the foods you listed are good...my dogs now only eat Solid gold dry and wet.


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## LOLAsMama (Jul 8, 2008)

My new pup was eating canine caviar prior to coming home with me and i'm continuing to give this to her. From what i've read about it, it seems to be of really good quality and she loves it. might be worth a look.


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

Doc came to me eating Canine Caviar too, and I've stayed with it. I have to order it online or go see my daughter in Columbus, Ohio, 8 hours away, to get it!! So far, it hasn't been a problem, but you could goodle search and find out where to get it.
I had Izzy on Solid Gold, so when I put Doc on adult food, I mixed a little Solid Gold with the Canine Caviar and that's what they both eat now.

I believe that some recommend not feeding puppy food and going right to adult.....there are many with much more wisdom than I on this subject so maybe you will hear from them........

BTW.....they eat the canine caviar much better than anything I tried with my granddog and continue to do so....granddog is eating it now too...


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks for the replies 
I'm planning on feeding Bil Jac to our puppy until the bag gets low(it's 7lbs) and then we'll start transitioning over to the new food. 
I picked up some Bully sticks and I have a Kong and stuffin' for chewing. 
I looked at flossies but they were so BIG...I thought puppy might be overwhelmed by the size at first  so I picked out a Bully stick instead. 
I'll look into Canine Caviar...hopefully it's available locally so that we can try it.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Eva~ You can find some help in choosing the best food for your new little one at:

dogfoodanalysis.com


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Wow - I've never heard of Canine Caviar - it's a first for me. Fromms, Wellness, EVO, Natural Balance, Orijen, Solid Gold Wee Bits are all excellent foods and fed by many here.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Lisa~ The Canine Caviar looks like a pretty good food. Check it out here. I was just at the feed store yesterday talking to the owner and he said it's become one of his best sellers. I bought some canned to mix w/Tori's Taste of the Wild kibble.


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks for the link 

What about Chicken Soup (for the puppy lovers soul)? 
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=908&cat=3
I feed it to my cats and have found it to be an excellent food for them. 
Does anyone here feed it to their Hav?


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

My 1st pup came to me from the breeder supposedly eating that brand. However, I could never get her to eat it here  It seems to be a good one, if they'll eat it...


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Leslie said:


> My 1st pup came to me from the breeder supposedly eating that brand. However, I could never get her to eat it here  It seems to be a good one, if they'll eat it...


Hmm...maybe I'll pick up a sample and see if he likes it...worth a try? 
The price of the Chicken Soup foods is great as is the quality of the product. 
If he likes it it would be a great choice for us.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Innova for puppies is very good. That's what I started my boys on.

You might want to go to www.dogfoodanalysis.com and check the reviews out for some of your choices.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Our puppies have always thrived on Purina Pro Plan. We switched our adults to a fancier, designer, organic, gourmet food but after thorough blood testing they came up low for Vitamin D so we switched back and now all are back to normal levels for everything.

Pam is always looking at different foods but it seems like we always go back to Pro Plan. I don't think the small companies can compete with Purina's health testing.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

My Maltese did very well on the Pro Plan Select - Salmon and Rice. I was very impressed by it. The price is really high however for the protein content I think.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Tom King said:


> Our puppies have always thrived on Purina Pro Plan. We switched our adults to a fancier, designer, organic, gourmet food but after thorough blood testing they came up low for Vitamin D so we switched back and now all are back to normal levels for everything.
> 
> Pam is always looking at different foods but it seems like we always go back to Pro Plan. I don't think the small companies can compete with Purina's health testing.


Actually quite the opposite. They typically are much better quality wise than the larger companies.

If you look at www.dogfoodanalysis.com, most of purina's pro plan foods come across as 1 out of 6 stars based on nutrional content.

This is the rating of their small breed kibble.



> The first ingredient is a named meat product. This is not a meal ingredient, but is inclusive of water content (about 80%). Once that is removed, as it must be to create a dehydrated product, the ingredient will weigh around 20% of its wet weight. Ingredients are listed in order of weight, and the dehydrated ingredient would probably be more accurately placed much further down the ingredient list. It is unlikely that this ingredient makes any significant contribution to the overall meat content of the food. The main meat ingredient in this food is in fact poultry by-product meal. It is impossible to ascertain the quality of by-products and these are usually products that are of such low quality as to be rejected for use in the human food chain, or else are those parts that have so little value that they cannot be used elsewhere in either the human or pet food industries. The AAFCO definition of poultry by-product meal is "a meal consisting of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice." Unable to be identified even by species or source, it is a very low quality ingredient. This is the fourth ingredient, making it unlikely that there is any significant meat content in the food at all, but rather it is primarily a collection of grains.
> 
> Fish meal is a further meat ingredient in the food, but it is far too far down the ingredient list to make any significant contribution to the overall meat content of the food. We find no sign on the manufacturer's website of a guarantee that only ethoxyquin-free protein ingredients are used in this food (ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative, commonly added to fish ingredients, and that is banned or heavily regulated in human food due to the belief that it is carcinogenic).
> 
> ...


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Now compare that to say Innova Adult

Ingredients:
Turkey, chicken, chicken meal, barley, brown rice, potatoes, natural flavors, rice, chicken fat, herring, apples, carrots, cottage cheese, sunflower oil, dicalcium phosphate, alfalfa sprouts, egg, garlic, potassium chloride, choline chloride, calcium carbonate, direct-fed microbials, vitamins/minerals



> The first three ingredients in this food are all named meat products. The first two of these are meat inclusive of water content (about 80%) and once that is removed it is likely that these ingredients would be more accurately placed somewhat further down the ingredient list (ingredients are listed in order of weight). However, since they are followed by a meat meal ingredient, we can have confidence in the level of meat content of the food. There is a further meat ingredient 10th on the list, but this is too far down to make up a substantive portion of the food. It is herring, a good natural source of Omega essential fatty acids.
> 
> The main grains are barley and rice. Both are whole grains and good quality sources of carbohydrates and additional protein. Potatoes are likewise a good quality carbohydrate source. The food contains a range of fruits and vegetables, as well as whole eggs. Sunflower oil is a good quality source of linoleic acid.
> 
> Overall, this is a very good quality food with a good amount of meat and that uses high quality ingredients throughout. The food contains no fillers, grain fragments, or other nasties that commonly cause problems for dogs.


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks for all of the input 
My puppies breeder suggests feeding a grain free as an adult (Timberwolf Organics) and so we'll probably try that out when he's older. For now I guess (after the Bil Jac is gone)we'll just experiment and see which foods agree with him the best. 
I feed my Lab a mix of dry and Raw...hopefully we'll get puppy on the same diet eventually. Raw is good...*YUM* eace:


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Raw is what I give my guys. You can go to the alternate diet forum and see my recipe for my boys.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Yes, I understand the ratings but wonder how much of the rating is by blood analysis and how much is just ingredient analysis as in reading the ingredients. We were very disappointed that the best "fancy" food we could find by ingredient analysis left our dogs low on Vitamin D.

Also, we have had several farm dogs (three that I remember) live into their 17th year on Pro Plan. Our oldest Havanese are just eleven but they still play like puppies.

Actually, we found out about the vitamin D problem sort of by accident. We were asked to participate in a multi breed test for Vitamin D. The idea of the study was to see if it was possible that cancer was on the increase because so many Toy dogs spend the vast majority of their time indoors without exposure to the sun. We were contacted because we have willingly participated in health studies before which require several blood draws and have 5 healthy generations (in spite of some rude accusations) on site. Our dogs get free choice to outside and no doubt have a lot more exposure to the sun than the average toy dog. The results from the first blood draw was that all our dogs were considered "deficient" for Vitamin D even though no one really knows the consequences yet. There were such variances in Vitamin D levels across the study that the next step asked what foods were fed. Ours were on the best fancy food we could find after much research reading every label and all the sort of information such as in the previous post by different "expert" websites.

Long story short, we were very disappointed to say the least and our dogs are back on Pro Plan. No dogs in the study who were on Pro Plan were found to be low on vitamin D even though they spent little time outdoors.

One interesting result was that our lighter colored and skinned dogs had better levels than the darker dogs-pretty evidently just from exposure to the sun. This is really nothing new along those lines as the same thing happens in humans. The study was inconclusive as far as benefits to dogs for exposure to sun but did turn up some problems with food.

I don't care how good on paper the ingredients look. This was simply inexcusable for a pet food manufacturer to not know this.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Well to be honest I do think the ingredient list is very important. It tells you if you are feeding garbage or healthy food. I mean look at the breakdown of Pro Plan. I can't honestly believe you think the fact that it contains poultry by-product meal, no sign on the manufacturer's website of a guarantee that only ethoxyquin-free protein ingredients are used in this food, brewers rice and corn, etc, etc are actually healthy for you dog. The company can simply include an additional supplement for vitamin D. Just because your vitamin d is normal doesn't mean the food is good. I can eat at MacDonalds everday and take vitamin D, doesn't mean the food is good. 

You say the best fancy food but what food are you actually referring to? Certainly not Innova and not raw. Was it Orijen, Wellness, Solid Gold, etc ?? When my guys were on Innova their blood work always came out great. Same as on raw.

Not every high quality food agrees with every dog. I know I had to find a few that seemed to agree with my guys tummy. Some gave them looser stools, some made their stools quite stinky. It came to finding the best product that works the best with their bodies.

BTW I'm not trying to start a fight lol. Just quite surprised that you think Purina is a good food.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I have no argument with that theory but I just go by the results. I know it sounds awful when you read all that but what about the results. I doubt our dogs would live longer or be more fit and healthy on anything else. Pam has spent untold hours pouring over all the nutrition information and we have tried different foods over the years but always come back to Pro Plan for the results.

We always seem to have some other problem after switching to some "better" food for a while-like smelly poop or dirty butts, or fast, dark tartar buildup, or dull coats-in spite of all the claims.

I didn't mention the name of the food with the vitamin D problem on purpose but I think a lot of people here know as a lot of them switched when we did. If they dropped the ball on the Vitamin D what else did they leave out. We feel fortunate that we found out by accident since Vitamin D level is something we don't normally test for. Some of the other Purina food I wouldn't donate to the pound but we have had nothing but good results from Pro Plan.

We all want to do the best for our dogs but we have to realistically do what we see is right.


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## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

How do you know if your puppy doesn't like the dog food or is just holding out for something better? I am extremely frustrated because I can't get Havanna to eat her kibble. I have switched her food several times, which I am now being told is not a good thing to do...it makes them hold out for something better. And my husband just informed me he had been giving her food from his plate (another reason to not eat her kibble if she thinks she's going to get REAL food!!). It is actually to the point I'm worried she's going to start losing weight. 

Michelle


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

havaone said:


> How do you know if your puppy doesn't like the dog food or is just holding out for something better? I am extremely frustrated because I can't get Havanna to eat her kibble. I have switched her food several times, which I am now being told is not a good thing to do...it makes them hold out for something better. And my husband just informed me he had been giving her food from his plate (another reason to not eat her kibble if she thinks she's going to get REAL food!!). It is actually to the point I'm worried she's going to start losing weight.
> 
> Michelle


Hi Michelle,

You can try putting a little bit of something "yummier" to her in with the kibble to entice her to eat. I used to grate Natural Balance roll over the food - that way it was too tiny for them to pick out (leaving the kibble). Now, I just keep chicken thighs in the freezer and microwave them - then shred little bits of chicken over the kibble. But my boys are not picky eaters.

I could see how putting add-ins might make the picky-eater problem worse....but, just an idea.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Jane said:


> Hi Michelle,
> 
> You can try putting a little bit of something "yummier" to her in with the kibble to entice her to eat. *I used to grate Natural Balance roll over the food* - that way it was too tiny for them to pick out (leaving the kibble). Now, I just keep chicken thighs in the freezer and microwave them - then shred little bits of chicken over the kibble. But my boys are not picky eaters.
> 
> I could see how putting add-ins might make the picky-eater problem worse....but, just an idea.


Oliver and Comet never refuse that!! :biggrin1:


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## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks, Jane. I've tried putting low-sodium chicken broth on her kibble (worked for a day), grated Parmesan (she licked it off the kibble and spat the kibble on the floor) and IAMS gravy (didn't work at all). I give her Natural Balance for training treats, so I'll try grating it into her kibble. At this point, I'd try just about anything to get her to eat!!!

Michelle


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## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

Jane: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I just grated some Natural Balance into Havanna's kibble, and she started spitting the kibble on the floor:frusty:. I thought, "Here we go again!" (See pic below). But then she actually started eating her kibble, too. eace: This is the first time she's eaten it on her own in about a week. Hopefully, she keeps this up!

Michelle


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Oh, Michelle! I laughed when I saw that photo of the kibble all spit out over the floor. These havs are just too much! I'm glad the NB roll worked tonight. Let's hope it continues tomorrow!


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Michelle it maybe the dishes.......some dogs don't like the stainless dishes. Try a ceramic dish with the same food


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

mintchip said:


> Michelle it maybe the dishes.......some dogs don't like the stainless dishes. Try a ceramic dish with the same food


Especially if Havanna wears a collar and tags - the tags may bang against the metal bowl and make a noise she does't like :suspicious:


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## havaone (Mar 25, 2008)

I hadn't even thought of that! Havanna doesn't wear a collar at home, though, and she used to eat out of the metal bowls. It's just been within the last two weeks I've really had problems getting her to eat. She won't eat in the morning at all (I was feeding her 1/2 cup of kibble in the morning and 1/2 cup at night), and she'd eat maybe 1/4 cup at night. I had to make a game out of her eating. She sat in the livingroom, and I'd be at her food bowl. I'd roll a piece of kibble to her across the tile floor, and she'd pounce at it like she was attacking something. Then, she'd eat it. I'd roll the kibble a littler closer to me each time (and closer to the bowl), until I'd finally have her eating out of the bowl. My husband thought I was nuts, but I've really been concerned about her, and when you're desperate.....BTW, she ate most of her kibble this morning w/ the NB roll grated in it.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

havaone said:


> I'd roll a piece of kibble to her across the tile floor, and she'd pounce at it like she was attacking something.


This is Shamouti all over! :biggrin1: I just started the boys on Fromm's Duck and Sweet Potato this week and they are both wild about it! This is the first time I've ever seen them both run to the food bowls and gobble it up. You ight want to try her on a little piece of sweet potato first though.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Michelle, how old is Havanna now? 

At some point, they need fewer calories and will regulate their intake, eating less. As long as she feels good (feel just behind the rib cage, around the belly area - she shouldn't feel squishy and overweight, or very bony and underweight, but you should be able to feel her ribs), don't worry about her missing a meal or two. 

My friend handfed her Hav through that emerging picky stage and he ended up overweight. She had to put him on a low calorie kibble and a diet later on.


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