# Breeder Question



## alycejordan (Jun 13, 2019)

Has anyone heard of Heartfelt Havanese and if so what is there reputation like?
Thanks, Alyce


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

No, where is it? Do you know the breeders name? I researched alot of the Florida breeders 3 years ago.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

alycejordan said:


> Has anyone heard of Heartfelt Havanese and if so what is there reputation like?
> Thanks, Alyce


I don't know them, but I checked out their web site. They are doing all the right things. I would have no qualms about contacting them for further conversations about a puppy based on what I see there.


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## alycejordan (Jun 13, 2019)

Hi,
It came up on Rescue Havanese but they were offering a discount which seems fishy to me.What breeder offers
a discount and has a number of 11 week old puppies that aren't reserved.
My best friend took care of Peaches for me for two months while I was ill and I want to get her a puppy I will train and surprise her but only under the best circumstances.
AJ


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

alycejordan said:


> Hi,
> It came up on Rescue Havanese but they were offering a discount which seems fishy to me.What breeder offers
> a discount and has a number of 11 week old puppies that aren't reserved.
> My best friend took care of Peaches for me for two months while I was ill and I want to get her a puppy I will train and surprise her but only under the best circumstances.
> AJ


Do you mean that the puppy will be for your friend and not you? Are you absolutely sure she wants a puppy? Is she familiar with Havanese? They are great dogs but do require more grooming than some other breeds. Wondering if she is good with that. I would be hesitant about giving a puppy as a gift.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Do you mean that the puppy will be for your friend and not you? Are you absolutely sure she wants a puppy? Is she familiar with Havanese? They are great dogs but do require more grooming than some other breeds. Wondering if she is good with that. I would be hesitant about giving a puppy as a gift.


I don't know many reputable breeders who would sell you a puppy for that purpose.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

alycejordan said:


> My best friend took care of Peaches for me for two months while I was ill and I want to get her a puppy I will train and surprise her but only under the best circumstances.
> AJ


Love the name of your dog. Hope you are all better now.

I would do it a bit different. I would tell my friend that I would pay for a puppy of any breed that she would like. Then I would help her research breeds and breeders to pick the best puppy for her lifestyle. An important part of a successful match and bonding with a new family fur member is doing all the legwork yourself prior to acquisition. That is also part of the "investment." It is always fun to read about new owners here on HF who can't sleep at night waiting for their new furbaby to arrive after doing tons of research!

You are a good friend for wanting to do this. You do realize that a quality Havanese (and many other breeds) from a reputable breeder generally cost around $2500 - $3000 nowadays.

PS, I was very ill in the hospital for a month and Momi had to care for Ricky by herself. In gratitude, I have purchased her a Bissel Crosswave wet/dry vacuum. I can assure you she will like that better than a new puppy!!!!! :wink2:

Ricky's Popi


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I don't know many reputable breeders who would sell you a puppy for that purpose.


Good. Hopefully the breeder will be informed that the puppy is intended for a gift so they can decline.


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## alycejordan (Jun 13, 2019)

Yes to all the above. She is Peaches second mother and misses her terribly when we take her home. We have discussed a puppy with her and she would love it her only concern is potty training. We trained Peaches to go outside so it meant up every two hours at night for some months.Fortunately my husband was home all day so he could be consistent with training.
I have thought of an adult dog for her but really think a trained puppy is best she has an enclosed yard with a pool inside a lanai so safe for puppy.
AJ


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I’m probably projecting, but I think I get what you are trying to do. It sounds like this could be the kind of situation where your friend developed a relationship with your dog and now wants one herself, and you are trying to find a way to do this for her financially and give of your time to help train the way she helped you. I think you can go about this a different way, though, and it will still be a special experience for you, her, and her puppy (or dog, if that is a better fit for her). If this is the case, and she has expressed this to you, include her in this so she can enjoy it, so she can decide if she wants a puppy or maybe as adult, potty trained dog from a breeder, and be prepared, be able to ask questions and learn, etc. And it also gives her the opportunity to decline if she’s not ready for it or can’t afford the day to day expense, such as grooming. There are still ways to make the presentation of the gift a special surprise, without the puppy itself being a Living Surprise. You could make up some kind of certificate, or write her a letter. 

Something to keep in mind is a great thank you gift, that would probably cost less and be good for both of you since you’ve been sick, is a relaxing friends weekend getaway (once it’s safe for you medically for you to stay somewhere)


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

alycejordan said:


> Yes to all the above. She is Peaches second mother and misses her terribly when we take her home. We have discussed a puppy with her and she would love it her only concern is potty training. We trained Peaches to go outside so it meant up every two hours at night for some months.Fortunately my husband was home all day so he could be consistent with training.
> I have thought of an adult dog for her but really think a trained puppy is best she has an enclosed yard with a pool inside a lanai so safe for puppy.
> AJ


We posted at the same time! If she really does want a Havanese, and you've already been discussing this, making this her adventure that you are supporting is still a special thing, without the surprise  You might provide her names of a few reputable breeders to contact because it's a gesture that lets her know you're serious about doing this for her, but it places the ball in her court. It also allows her to build a relationship with the breeder she connects with. I would also reconsider an older puppy or young dog from a breeder. It's important you do this with no strings attached, as passenger and not a backseat driver  and really listen to what she wants. There have been several stories on the forum of people finding well socialized, potty trained, wonderful Havanese from breeders. Sometimes they have been older puppies or young adults, or retired breeding dogs.


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

I don't mean to be a sour note in this but I don't think this is a great idea. My adult daughter had been saying for years that she wanted a dog of her own. She did the research and even put down the deposit. I paid the balance as a gift. I am so grateful that the breeder has a surrender clause. My daughter likes to travel and socialize. She was rarely at home with the dog. She loved the dog and companionship but she failed to understand that a puppy is a lifetime commitment. My daughter finally heard what I was saying and surrendered her dog back to the breeder. Some of the reluctance was I gave her the puppy as a gift and she didn't want to seem unappreciative. Let your friend enjoy your dog and be done. My daughter is much happier now enjoying my dogs without the entire responsibility of pet ownership.

If your friend is concerned about potty training what happens if the dog gets sick or becomes a senior that has bathroom issues? A few dogs never become 100 % reliable. I had a friend whose dog never became totally potty trained in my opinion.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Vartina Ancrum said:


> I don't mean to be a sour note in this but I don't think this is a great idea. My adult daughter had been saying for years that she wanted a dog of her own. She did the research and even put down the deposit. I paid the balance as a gift. I am so grateful that the breeder has a surrender clause. My daughter likes to travel and socialize. She was rarely at home with the dog. She loved the dog and companionship but she failed to understand that a puppy is a lifetime commitment. My daughter finally heard what I was saying and surrendered her dog back to the breeder. Some of the reluctance was I gave her the puppy as a gift and she didn't want to seem unappreciative. Let your friend enjoy your dog and be done. My daughter is much happier now enjoying my dogs without the entire responsibility of pet ownership.
> 
> If your friend is concerned about potty training what happens if the dog gets sick or becomes a senior that has bathroom issues? A few dogs never become 100 % reliable. I had a friend whose dog never became totally potty trained in my opinion.


Vartina, these are really great points. If the concern with potty training is that it is "inconvenient" then that is just one of many inconveniences to come. Dogs get old, they get sick, they get injured, they get ticks between their paw pads. Sometimes they have to go potty in the middle of the night and sometimes they have to go several times during the night. Also, after the initial expense, there are many ongoing expenses to come. Is the owner prepared for this? Unless she wants to groom herself, that is one expense. Then there are vet bills and dental cleanings and any possible health issues. Even if healthy, there are wellness exams. All this stuff adds up. Taking care of someone else's dog for a few months is not the same as owning a dog. It is sort of like the grand kids coming to visit. Most grandmothers are more than happy to see them go back home and they are not about to have more kids themselves.


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

I do want to add this. Sometimes as parents of underage children, we get puppies and "say" it is a gift for the child but in reality, we know that as the adult we are mainly responsible for the pet. When afterschool activities or homework assignments are due, we parents are the ones that walk or feed the dog. This is a totally different situation. Also, there are occasions when a person gives someone special a pet as a gift. Pets are wonderful and add so much joy to our lives.

I am not saying that a pet should never be a gift, it just warrants serious consideration.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Vartina Ancrum said:


> Sometimes as parents of underage children, we get puppies and "say" it is a gift for the child but in reality, we know that as the adult we are mainly responsible for the pet.


Haha, I had no illusions about who would ultimately be responsible, but we did intend our puppy to be for DS. He asked every single day for years before we finally got our puppy. He loves our Havanese so much, but he is still a teeny bit sad that Sundance doesn't sleep in his room and will only follow him around if I'm not home. Things don't always go exactly how we envision them.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> He loves our Havanese so much, but he is still a teeny bit sad that Sundance doesn't sleep in his room


I am reluctant to get involved in family dynamics because it is often complicated with no easy answers. In our case, Ricky sleeps wherever we train him to sleep, that is wherever his crate is. If we required him to sleep in another room, we would move his crate there and ignore his complaints if he had any.


> and will only follow him around if I'm not home.


From my personal experience and observation, Havanese tend to become most attached to their primary care giver - that usually means food, care, play, Vet, etc. In our specific case, that means me as opposed to Momi. Ricky and I are inseparable and we both suffer separation anxiety when I am not around for some reason. Momi brings the issue up occasionally, that when I leave without Ricky, he puts up a tremendous fuss - crying, whining, morosity - but he soons gets over it and Momi then becomes his "go to caregiver". From my perspective, I tend to become a bit depressed when I don't have BOTH Momi and Ricky for emotional support.

It's complicated, it just depends.

Ricky's Popi


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

Ha Ha. I have been there too, EvaElizabeth. When my children were younger they begged for a pet. They promised to help feed and walk the dog. They did help when it didn't conflict with their plans (lol). 

It's definitely fine to give a pet as a gift but you have to consider other things. For instance, someone wants a dog but doesn't want to deal with potty training issues you have to consider there will be times you deal with bathroom issues and upset tummies (just like with human children). It is a part of parenthood and pet ownership although it's not our favorite part. I would just make sure my friend thought about this before proceeding. Sounds like you two have a wonderful friendship.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I am reluctant to get involved in family dynamics because it is often complicated with no easy answers. In our case, Ricky sleeps wherever we train him to sleep, that is wherever his crate is. If we required him to sleep in another room, we would move his crate there and ignore his complaints if he had any.
> 
> From my personal experience and observation, Havanese tend to become most attached to their primary care giver - that usually means food, care, play, Vet, etc. In our specific case, that means me as opposed to Momi. Ricky and I are inseparable and we both suffer separation anxiety when I am not around for some reason. Momi brings the issue up occasionally, that when I leave without Ricky, he puts up a tremendous fuss - crying, whining, morosity - but he soons gets over it and Momi then becomes his "go to caregiver". From my perspective, I tend to become a bit depressed when I don't have BOTH Momi and Ricky for emotional support.
> 
> ...


Yes and no. To some extent I agree. I think that if a well-adjusted Havanese that loves someone dearly loses that person and moves to a new home with someone else, they will develop strong ties to a new person. But our dogs are cared for as a group.. Exactly the same way, at the same times by the same person at each time. Sometimes I feed sometimes Dave feeds. Kodi seems to have a SLIGHT preference for me... unless there is food around because Dave is the softy who gives out snacks, where I don't.  But _I_am the one he trains with, and he LOVES to work. But the two girls really have chosen on their own. Pixel LOVES Dave. And she made that very clear, very early, and made that choice in SPITE of the fact that I spent much more time with her, did ALL her early training, etc. Conversely, Panda is ALWAYS my shadow. She picked me. 

I DO think girls may be a little more prone to this choosing "their" person than boys are... most of the boys I know are pretty equal-opportunity lovers!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I am reluctant to get involved in family dynamics because it is often complicated with no easy answers. In our case, Ricky sleeps wherever we train him to sleep, that is wherever his crate is. If we required him to sleep in another room, we would move his crate there and ignore his complaints if he had any.
> 
> From my personal experience and observation, Havanese tend to become most attached to their primary care giver - that usually means food, care, play, Vet, etc. In our specific case, that means me as opposed to Momi. Ricky and I are inseparable and we both suffer separation anxiety when I am not around for some reason. Momi brings the issue up occasionally, that when I leave without Ricky, he puts up a tremendous fuss - crying, whining, morosity - but he soons gets over it and Momi then becomes his "go to caregiver". From my perspective, I tend to become a bit depressed when I don't have BOTH Momi and Ricky for emotional support.
> 
> ...


In the beginning we rotated where Sundance slept, and it worked for the first couple of weeks when we were crating. When we decided not to crate, he woke up early to go potty and tried to wake them up, but my kids are ridiculously heavy sleepers, and then eventually find a place to go potty in a corner and then cry until someone heard him. It was sad. Before, in the crate, he would keep making noise until i could hear him in the next room, since I'm a really light sleeper. Crate training works! It just wasn't the best fit for us for other reasons. So we bought him a bed for our bedroom, thinking we'd rotate rooms again when he wasn't waking up so early, but it became his routine.

The cute thing is that my kids were preteens at the time, and as a result of Sundance being in our bedroom, this led to bedtime and early morning gathering in our room, which I love. At bedtime the kids come in and play with Sundance in the hallway for a few minutes and say goodnight to Sundance. In the morning when they're too tired to really get going, they come in and plop down on my bed, and give Sundance belly rubs and say good morning. They were entering the age where they put themselves to bed and get themselves ready, and don't seek out so many hugs from mom, so i love it.

While we were in the hospital DD was hopeful Sundance would sleep sleep in her bed. Her bed is actually quite high, higher than ours, so she did have an advantage in that he couldn't jump down and cry by the door. He snuggled with her until about midnight, when DH heard him whimpering. He probably could have ignored it but DD was asleep so DH took him to our room where he slept on my pillow!

I agree that they sometimes have a connection with their primary caregiver. We initially enrolled DS as the primary person in our puppy class for that reason but we had to reschedule it twice because he was so sick that year. Then we worked with a trainer, initially with DS as the primary person, but the focus became the separation anxiety. One day I would love for DS and I to do classes with Sundance.

Regarding the member wishing to help her friend with potty training, that training time builds the relationship between the owner and the puppy. As well intentioned as it seems, you could end up quite attached to that little puppy you spent time training for someone else!


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