# Frustrated at 7 months



## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

Charley is 7 months now and I thought he was doing great with his potty business and then suddenly tonight he peed on the bed. It's been a couple of months since he did that but I feel so frustrated. I thought we were safe in that regard. Fact is it's my fact, took him out at 9:30 and he just wanted to come back in again. I thought it meant, "no mom, I don't have to go". Ten minutes laters he peed on the bed. 

There haven't been any accidents in the house (fact is I don't let him run free aroudn the house) just in the bed!!!! 3rd time now. :frusty::frusty::frusty: Can he just not be trusted. Will I ever be able to trust him. It seems that after he's done so well and seems to have iron kidneys, maybe I let up a bit and whammo. 

Also, everyone tells me they slow down a bit as they get older. When is older?? Charley is sooooooo energetic. I love it. He's great great fun but I am really looking forward to the slow down part.


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Man that stinks, one of my biggest fears even though it's never happened to me. DH started letting Timmy sleep with us a few months ago and I was always on edge. Do you have him in bed to sleep with you at night or just to hang during the day. Timmy is SO routine oriented which is good in some ways and bad in others. He takes his last drink of water at about 9:00-9:30 and then it's out to pee before I head up at 10:00. If he doesn't pee he's in his crate instead of in bed with us. I think he's learned no pee, no bed. Before I take his water away I ask him if wants a drink and I have to say nine out of ten times he takes a really long drink. He's hasn't had an accident since he's been about 5 months old. He still doesn't have free reign of the house but it's not because I don't trust him, I don't trust my messy kids leaving stuff out that can be eaten and then of course there's the kitty litter I don't want him near.

About slowing down, I think we have a long way to go. Timmy is about 9 months old and pretty layed back but he still has his puppy moments, but that's what we love about them isn't it? Either my kids or myself play a crazy game of fetch with him before he goes out to pee before bed which tires him out and might help him pee from all that running around. Like I said routine is the key here, kinda messes stuff up when we miss something but that doesn't happen too often. Seems like life is a game with these guys.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Charley is so cute!
I wouldn't give him access to the bed at this time. Especially after he didn't pee when you took him out.
At seven months, he is still young and he shouldn't be given the opportunity to make mistakes.
Don't get discouraged, this is normal puppy stuff. 
Also, make sure that the urine smell is removed from the bedding. Does your mattress have a water-proof cover? Hope so.

He will slow down eventually, although he may always be an energetic guy.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Do you go OUT with him to make SURE he goes potty??
I know with Tillie (who is 2 yrs) if I don't go out and tell her to 'go potty' there is an 80% chance that she won't go (gets distracted, forgets what she went out there to do LOL) and will ring the bell to go out again 5 minutes after she comes in... so I go out with her to make SURE she pees unless she is just going out to sunbath or something.


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## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

My girl is almost 8 months old. I was letting her in the bed but then in early july she peed in the bed and it was back to the crate. In the past few weeks I've have been letting her in the bed but only if I know she peed just before and if she didn't drink a bunch of water (sometimes we walk in the evening, she comes home and drinks a ton of water and i know she'll need to go). for the past couple weeks she's been in my bed about half the nights. She would have been in my bed last night but I wasn't paying attention when i took her outside and didn't see if she peed or not. I stayed out for 15 minutes and couldn't get her to go again. I wasn't sure so into the crate she went. She slept quietly all night so I guess she might have gone, but i wasn't going to give her an opportunity to have an accident again. This approach seems to be working okay for now.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> Charley is 7 months now and I thought he was doing great with his potty business and then suddenly tonight he peed on the bed. It's been a couple of months since he did that but I feel so frustrated. I thought we were safe in that regard. Fact is it's my fact, took him out at 9:30 and he just wanted to come back in again. I thought it meant, "no mom, I don't have to go". Ten minutes laters he peed on the bed.
> 
> There haven't been any accidents in the house (fact is I don't let him run free aroudn the house) just in the bed!!!! 3rd time now. :frusty::frusty::frusty: Can he just not be trusted. Will I ever be able to trust him. It seems that after he's done so well and seems to have iron kidneys, maybe I let up a bit and whammo.
> 
> Also, everyone tells me they slow down a bit as they get older. When is older?? Charley is sooooooo energetic. I love it. He's great great fun but I am really looking forward to the slow down part.


Charley is still very young on both counts. it is not at all unusual to still be "riding herd" on a small breed dog at 7 months in terms of potty training. I think most people find that it takes a good year of diligence. In this particular case, where he has already peed on the bed several times, my guess is that he can smell the pee there, even if you can't and is responding to that. Frankly, you may NEVER be able to trust him again on that mattress.

As far as energy level is concerned, Charley is still a puppy, and puppy energy level is to be expected! I found that Kodi settled somewhat betwen 1 year and 18 months, but the biggest change was after his 2nd birthday. At that point, he had the capacity to just "hang out" when there wasn't anything more interesting going on. Before that, he was a "busy" boy!


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

TilliesMom said:


> Do you go OUT with him to make SURE he goes potty??
> I know with Tillie (who is 2 yrs) if I don't go out and tell her to 'go potty' there is an 80% chance that she won't go (gets distracted, forgets what she went out there to do LOL) and will ring the bell to go out again 5 minutes after she comes in... so I go out with her to make SURE she pees unless she is just going out to sunbath or something.


last nite I did go out with him. actually I always go out with him since I don't have a fenced yard. Last nite he just didn't pee when we went out and I was foolish to bring him up to the bedroom. I could kick myself! Anyway, tonight he's in the crate in the bedroom.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

Tuss said:


> My girl is almost 8 months old. I was letting her in the bed but then in early july she peed in the bed and it was back to the crate. In the past few weeks I've have been letting her in the bed but only if I know she peed just before and if she didn't drink a bunch of water (sometimes we walk in the evening, she comes home and drinks a ton of water and i know she'll need to go). for the past couple weeks she's been in my bed about half the nights. She would have been in my bed last night but I wasn't paying attention when i took her outside and didn't see if she peed or not. I stayed out for 15 minutes and couldn't get her to go again. I wasn't sure so into the crate she went. She slept quietly all night so I guess she might have gone, but i wasn't going to give her an opportunity to have an accident again. This approach seems to be working okay for now.


taht seems like the best way to do it. I suppose I have to get back to that routine.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

krandall said:


> Charley is still very young on both counts. it is not at all unusual to still be "riding herd" on a small breed dog at 7 months in terms of potty training. I think most people find that it takes a good year of diligence. In this particular case, where he has already peed on the bed several times, my guess is that he can smell the pee there, even if you can't and is responding to that. Frankly, you may NEVER be able to trust him again on that mattress.
> 
> As far as energy level is concerned, Charley is still a puppy, and puppy energy level is to be expected! I found that Kodi settled somewhat betwen 1 year and 18 months, but the biggest change was after his 2nd birthday. At that point, he had the capacity to just "hang out" when there wasn't anything more interesting going on. Before that, he was a "busy" boy!


actually the times he peed on the bed, it didn't go through to the mattress. phew!!! I was certain of that and the bedding was washed, washed again and again. but who knows.

it's been a really hot summer here and there are a ton of mosquitoes and I suppose it's my own patience that has been faltering.

I love his puppy energy . maybe I need to be able to say know to it though. I'm just not sure. everytime charley wants to play do I need to play? I think I'm too concerned that Charley is always happy. Sounds silly writing this down. But sometimes I just need a break and want to just relax with my little guy. I do need to be vigilant though. He needs to learn the house rules, e.g., when I open the Dw or dryer, that's not a time for him to want to get him. I mean it's cute 'n all but he has to learn what's his and what's not. he seems to need constant reminders. but as you say, that's to be expected at this age? My other dog was a puppy over 20 yrs ago. It seems I've forgotten quite a lot about puppyhood.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

*Puppyhood*



Charleysmom said:


> actually the times he peed on the bed, it didn't go through to the mattress. phew!!! I was certain of that and the bedding was washed, washed again and again. but who knows.
> 
> it's been a really hot summer here and there are a ton of mosquitoes and I suppose it's my own patience that has been faltering.
> 
> I love his puppy energy . maybe I need to be able to say know to it though. I'm just not sure. everytime charley wants to play do I need to play? I think I'm too concerned that Charley is always happy. Sounds silly writing this down. But sometimes I just need a break and want to just relax with my little guy. I do need to be vigilant though. He needs to learn the house rules, e.g., when I open the Dw or dryer, that's not a time for him to want to get him. I mean it's cute 'n all but he has to learn what's his and what's not. he seems to need constant reminders. but as you say, that's to be expected at this age? My other dog was a puppy over 20 yrs ago. It seems I've forgotten quite a lot about puppyhood.


Aw you sound just like me. We are a little older and our last dogs were puppies long ago when we had a lot more energy and patience. I keep waiting for Ted to stop all the puppy stuff, but in my heart I know darn well that 18 months is more the calm down age. I think this time period will be looked at fondly when its over, just like so many others on the forum that have multiple Havs, must feel. Our first Christmas should be nice!:drum:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> I love his puppy energy . maybe I need to be able to say know to it though. I'm just not sure. everytime charley wants to play do I need to play? I think I'm too concerned that Charley is always happy. Sounds silly writing this down. But sometimes I just need a break and want to just relax with my little guy. I do need to be vigilant though. He needs to learn the house rules, e.g., when I open the Dw or dryer, that's not a time for him to want to get him. I mean it's cute 'n all but he has to learn what's his and what's not. he seems to need constant reminders. but as you say, that's to be expected at this age? My other dog was a puppy over 20 yrs ago. It seems I've forgotten quite a lot about puppyhood.


It's PERFECTLY OK to sometimes say "no" to play. He should learn to keep busy on his own some of the time too. These are good times for a Kong, bully stick or antler in his pen. The same is true about learning "his" vs. "yours" and what he is/isn't allowed to do. It's probably unrealistic to expect that he would always be compliant about that part yet, but you can and should still be working on it!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lise said:


> Aw you sound just like me. We are a little older and our last dogs were puppies long ago when we had a lot more energy and patience. I keep waiting for Ted to stop all the puppy stuff, but in my heart I know darn well that 18 months is more the calm down age. I think this time period will be looked at fondly when its over, just like so many others on the forum that have multiple Havs, must feel. Our first Christmas should be nice!:drum:


Ha! Kodi was 8 months old his first Christmas, and the TREE had to be in an ex-pen for it's and his safety!ound:ound:


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

*Tree*



krandall said:


> Ha! Kodi was 8 months old his first Christmas, and the TREE had to be in an ex-pen for it's and his safety!ound:ound:


Oh Gawd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and here I thought that at 8 months we may have been safe!


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

krandall said:


> Ha! Kodi was 8 months old his first Christmas, and the TREE had to be in an ex-pen for it's and his safety!ound:ound:


that is so [email protected]


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

krandall said:


> It's PERFECTLY OK to sometimes say "no" to play. He should learn to keep busy on his own some of the time too. These are good times for a Kong, bully stick or antler in his pen. The same is true about learning "his" vs. "yours" and what he is/isn't allowed to do. It's probably unrealistic to expect that he would always be compliant about that part yet, but you can and should still be working on it!


when you say "no" is it a firm "no" or loud? or what? I don't think I've gotten my "no" down just right.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I am so old-school that I know most don't agree with me, but I say no the same way I said it to my kids. They knew I ment it when I said it and my grandchildren who are so spoiled that no one wants to see them coming are perfect little angels around me. I tell them no and they know from the tone of my voice and the look I give them that I mean it. Rosie and I communicate just perfectly. Dogs are smart enough to understand what one means without it being the traditional come, sit, stay, etc. Rosie knows to come when I say "Rosie get your butt in her". Otherwise she just looks at me. I love it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> when you say "no" is it a firm "no" or loud? or what? I don't think I've gotten my "no" down just right.


Sorry, I didn't LITERALLY mean "say No"... I meant that you can and should refuse to play unless YOU choose to. When he keeps at you, redirect him to another activity. If he can do that and stay close, fine. If not, it's off to his pen (gently) with something to chew on and keep him busy for a while. Work up slowly on how long you expect him to entertain himself.

"No" is a TOTALLY over-used word, and the puppy has no idea WHAT you are saying "no" to. Read the article Dave just posted. When you say "no!" waht are you saying "no" to? Is it coming to you? Is it because you are near the wall? Is it...? There are many, MANY possibilities, and more often than not, the puppy will make the WRONG association. Plus, the word "no" gets used so often, that they quickly learn that it means NOTHING... just like kids.

It is MUCH easier to teach a dog to DO something than it is to teach them to STOP doing something. As a fer'instance, Kodi always follows me into the bathroom. I don't care. What I DO care about is that when I stand up, he would jump up and grab my leg. He didn't start humping, but it was that kind of grab, and I felt it was inappropriate. I tried pushing him off, saying "no" saying "off", nothing worked. Then I started THINKING.

I decided that what I needed was an appropriate REPLACEMENT behavior. So I thought about what "good" behavior would look like. In a single session, I taught him to lie quietly on the bathroom rug until I've washed my hands and I've released him. At that point, we both go into the kitchen and he gets a small treat reward. (when we were working on it, I had the treats right with me in my pocket) Voila! In one session, I replaced a behavior that had been driving me nuts for months with one that was a perfectly acceptable solution for both of us. If I'd kept up with the admonishments and pushing him off, I think we'd STILL be on the same feed-back loop!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Luciledodd said:


> I am so old-school that I know most don't agree with me, but I say no the same way I said it to my kids. They knew I ment it when I said it and my grandchildren who are so spoiled that no one wants to see them coming are perfect little angels around me. I tell them no and they know from the tone of my voice and the look I give them that I mean it. Rosie and I communicate just perfectly. Dogs are smart enough to understand what one means without it being the traditional come, sit, stay, etc. Rosie knows to come when I say "Rosie get your butt in her". Otherwise she just looks at me. I love it.


This can work as long as the dog DOES know what you are saying "no" to. But puppies often don't have enough experience yet to know.


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## Miss Paige (Apr 4, 2008)

Karen,

Loved your tree in an expen-We put up a tree this year & it went in an expen. I have three here that think the living room is their race track-so I put the expen around the tree to keep everyone safe.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Glad it helped, Pat! This summer, the ex-pen went into service as protection for the blueberry bushes. Kodi was "helping himself" to blueberries a LITTLE too often!


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

krandall said:


> Sorry, I didn't LITERALLY mean "say No"... I meant that you can and should refuse to play unless YOU choose to. When he keeps at you, redirect him to another activity. If he can do that and stay close, fine. If not, it's off to his pen (gently) with something to chew on and keep him busy for a while. Work up slowly on how long you expect him to entertain himself.
> 
> "No" is a TOTALLY over-used word, and the puppy has no idea WHAT you are saying "no" to. Read the article Dave just posted. When you say "no!" waht are you saying "no" to? Is it coming to you? Is it because you are near the wall? Is it...? There are many, MANY possibilities, and more often than not, the puppy will make the WRONG association. Plus, the word "no" gets used so often, that they quickly learn that it means NOTHING... just like kids.
> 
> ...


Karen, this is so helpful thanks. I too don't like the idea of saying no repeatedly. Having the inapporopriate behavior replaced with an appropriate one makes a lot of sense.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

Luciledodd said:


> I am so old-school that I know most don't agree with me, but I say no the same way I said it to my kids. They knew I ment it when I said it and my grandchildren who are so spoiled that no one wants to see them coming are perfect little angels around me. I tell them no and they know from the tone of my voice and the look I give them that I mean it. Rosie and I communicate just perfectly. Dogs are smart enough to understand what one means without it being the traditional come, sit, stay, etc. Rosie knows to come when I say "Rosie get your butt in her". Otherwise she just looks at me. I love it.


thanks. I don't think Charley has developed a good understanding of "no" yet. I've just recently started to say it but he doesn't always respond. I need to do some reading on this (e.g., the article Karen suggested) so that I know what to teach him.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

krandall said:


> Sorry, I didn't LITERALLY mean "say No"... I meant that you can and should refuse to play unless YOU choose to. When he keeps at you, redirect him to another activity. If he can do that and stay close, fine. If not, it's off to his pen (gently) with something to chew on and keep him busy for a while. Work up slowly on how long you expect him to entertain himself.
> 
> "No" is a TOTALLY over-used word, and the puppy has no idea WHAT you are saying "no" to. Read the article Dave just posted. When you say "no!" waht are you saying "no" to? Is it coming to you? Is it because you are near the wall? Is it...? There are many, MANY possibilities, and more often than not, the puppy will make the WRONG association. Plus, the word "no" gets used so often, that they quickly learn that it means NOTHING... just like kids.
> 
> ...


Karen, do you remember what thread teh article Dave suggested is in? I just looked through some of his posts but didn't find it. if maybe you know it offhand would you let me know. thanks so much


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> Karen, do you remember what thread teh article Dave suggested is in? I just looked through some of his posts but didn't find it. if maybe you know it offhand would you let me know. thanks so much


Here you go:

http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=17944


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

thanks Karen. I'll take a look.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

that article is great. I really like the concept. thanks for telling me about it. now I just have to apply what I've learned.


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Rollie still isn't allowed on beds. In the past he's gotten over excited and had accidents. The last time was months and months ago, but we're still not taking any chances. Oh, and he's one and a half. 

7 months is still really young. We read many postings about puppies reliable by 4 months and by 6 months and by 8 months . . . But all pups are different and then there's the regression period. Your pup will come around. Just keep faith!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jessegirl said:


> Rollie still isn't allowed on beds. In the past he's gotten over excited and had accidents. The last time was months and months ago, but we're still not taking any chances. Oh, and he's one and a half.
> 
> 7 months is still really young. We read many postings about puppies reliable by 4 months and by 6 months and by 8 months . . . But all pups are different and then there's the regression period. Your pup will come around. Just keep faith!


Yeah, sometimes when someone posts about their "completely trustworthy" 4-6 month old Havanese puppy, I want to smile and say, "Just wait!..." But I hate to burst their bubble.

I'm sure there are a FEW who are really, truly totally, reliably house trained by that age, but I think it's VANISHINGLY few. Kodi wasn't having accidents at that age either, but it was because I knew his schedule, and kept him in areas where I was sure he could be successful. For a long time, every time he had an accident, it was because I tried to give him more freedom... obviously too soon.

I think MOST of them have some periods of regression. Sometimes it's just once, other times it can happen several times.


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## marlowe'sgirl (Jun 17, 2010)

I had by all counts a really reliable Hav puppy. We didn't have accidents at all after the 5 month mark - but I think it was because - like Karen - I knew his schedule. I didn't allow my pup any unsupervised time until he was 7.5 months and then only an hour or two after long walks when I was sure his bladder was emptied. From then on, it was slow allowance of freedom. It was a long while before I felt that he 'got it' vs I just knew his schedule. He didn't get to sleep in the bed until 11 months old.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

Charley is almost eight months and he's had three acciddents since I have him - all three on my bed. I guess that says it all. Like you he doesn't have freedom in the house unless I am certain he is empty empty. And then he gets about 1/2 and hour of supervised run around time. It's so tempting though to allow him in the bed - he was such fun to sleep with. As soon as I open my eyes I'd get the "Oh, good you're up" look and an avalanche of hugs and kisses. But for now, he's sleeping in the crate by the bed.

So....the big question - what is it that happens between now and 1 year or 2 years that makes him ready to sleep in the bed? Charley has the litter box and he much much prefers to go outside but does use the box here and there. I'd like to keep the litter box especially for those rainy cold nights when I have a fever. But will using the box slow his learning? Alot of questions. Maybe I shoudl start another thread...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> Charley is almost eight months and he's had three acciddents since I have him - all three on my bed. I guess that says it all. Like you he doesn't have freedom in the house unless I am certain he is empty empty. And then he gets about 1/2 and hour of supervised run around time. It's so tempting though to allow him in the bed - he was such fun to sleep with. As soon as I open my eyes I'd get the "Oh, good you're up" look and an avalanche of hugs and kisses. But for now, he's sleeping in the crate by the bed.
> 
> So....the big question - what is it that happens between now and 1 year or 2 years that makes him ready to sleep in the bed? Charley has the litter box and he much much prefers to go outside but does use the box here and there. I'd like to keep the litter box especially for those rainy cold nights when I have a fever. But will using the box slow his learning? Alot of questions. Maybe I shoudl start another thread...


I don't think having an indoor potty slows their learning. I think it just gives them another "OK" spot to go.

As far as "when" Charley might be ready to sleep in your bed, I can't really say. Kodi doesn't want to. He LOVES to snuggle in the evenings, but then he asks to be taken down to bed in his crate. In the morning, Dave takes Kodi out to potty when he gets up, gives him his breakfast, then Kodi runs upstairs and gets back in bed with me for a little more cuddle time. So I guess it doesn't have to be all of one or the other. Maybe you can enjoy cuddle time with Charley, but still havee him spend "sleep" time in his crate.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

Ted has had 2 days of no misses, but my bed is a way long off!


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