# Invisible Fence



## BennyBoy (Apr 25, 2012)

I would like to get an invisible fence for our yard to keep Benny safe. We do not have a fenced in yard, and although he stays close by 95% of the time, I live in fear that he will dart in the road and get hit.

Sadly, a friend just lost her dog who was hit by a car, so I am even more anxious to keep Benny safe.

I would love to hear of others' experience with invisible fencing. Thanks


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Invisible fences are NOT safe for small dogs. They let larger animals in, while keeping the small dog enclosed where they can't defend themselves, hide, or run away. The only safe ways to contain a small dog are a good, solid fence, or constant supervision... On leash if they don't have a solid recall.


----------



## Sparkle (May 17, 2012)

I agree w/Karen. Invisible fences are great keeping your dog in the yard. But no barrier for keeping other animals out. So I would never leave a small dog outside by themself with invisible fence.


----------



## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

Please don't subject Benny to this. Karen is 100% right on the disadvantages. My take on this 'fix' for any size dog is that it is a cruel way to teach a dog to stay at home.

Keeper's Mom


----------



## Lisainidaho (Feb 1, 2012)

I had an invisible fence in my backyard which kept my Doberman out of my flowerbeds and kept him from stressing and running the fences. He still had plenty of space, I just wanted to keep him out of a specific area. He learned quickly, and he was very timid so my guess is that it wasn't so extreme that it scared him. I even tried it on myself! I had definite hesitation about using it, but after talking with some more experienced people, I thought it worked well for that specific purpose. 

That said, I agree with the other posters. It would scare me to have my dogs in the front yard with invisible fencing. Other dogs have no problem with charging into YOUR yard! I like the fact that you are thinking about Benny's safety, but I think you will have unwanted side effects. I'm also not so sure about using the collars on small dogs. I used mine on a 75 lb dog and used the lightest setting available. 

I am using a trainer who comes to my house, and we are training my pups to have a great recall as well as to learn certain techniques to stay in certain places. I won't leave them unattended, but I will rely on those tools - maybe you could think about having a trainer come to your house? Just a thought.


----------



## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Before I had my fence, I had invisible fencing for the outside dog. It worked well with the larger dog. You do have to walk them along the fence at first to train them and put up flags , etc. Anyway I had a little schnauzer at that time. I got her a collar and watched as she went along the fence. Then for whatever purpose, she started over it and when it shocked her, she ran forward across it. Then she couldn't get back. I never put it on her again. Just went out with her every time for potty and runs. She was not as headstrong as Rosie and minded me instantly. So my recommendation is no for a small dog. If you want it to stay outside for exercise, then put in a long lead that it can run along--sorta like a clothesline--then a long leash with a hook on both ends.

I am assuming that there are no big dogs running loose in your neighborhood and that you are watching your baby.


----------



## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

BennyBoy said:


> I would like to get an invisible fence for our yard to keep Benny safe. We do not have a fenced in yard, and although he stays close by 95% of the time, I live in fear that he will dart in the road and get hit.
> 
> Sadly, a friend just lost her dog who was hit by a car, so I am even more anxious to keep Benny safe.
> 
> I would love to hear of others' experience with invisible fencing. Thanks


I don't have personal experience with invisible fencing, but I read and talk very widely with other dog-people, including many professional trainers. In my own rural neighborhood, I've been aware of two or three places with invisible fencing.

Dogs who have ANY timidity are usually badly affected, no matter how careful the training; some become untraiinable for anything, as the emotional brain appears to become overwhelmed with fears, leading to unwanted shyness, and sometimes, even, aggression (defensive aggression, but that's still aggression).

I'm aware of one local dog who had to be put down as a result of being overwhelmed with fears (and aggressive as a result).

There are also numbers of possible malfunctions, even with the best-made systems. Among them, that the collar doesn't turn off, but keeps shocking the dog.

What I've done is put up kennel-mesh (also known as knuckle-wire) - 2"x4" oblong "holes" - for my small dogs, six feed high, with about six or more inches of that sunk into a trench in the ground, with chicken-wire attached at the bottom, and the chicken-wire laid flat, inside the fence, dug in, and then covered back up (to prevent digging out, for digging-dogs like small terriers).

For my maximum comfort and safety (my dog's safety is my safety), I;ve put fencing, uninterrupted, around my entire house, enclosing all door-exits to the yard. And put a dog-door in my front door (or whatever door works best).

Of course, I can always block the dog-door, and if I do, I block it on BOTH sides, so that if my dog is outside (and I'm unaware of that), it doesn't try to get in the dog-door and bang its head on the inside blocking-panel. Vice-versa for inside, of course.

Height of fence depends first on your dog's size, but also, on what might be outside the fence and try to jump in.Cougar? We have them in my area, and they find a small dog a tasty lunch. Deer?

Because of my locations, I've found six-foot fencing sufficient, but probably you'd need to add onto the top for keeping deer or cougar out of your yard- I'd add chicken-wire that leans outward from the fence - say, a couple of feet of that at least.

Coyotes? Foxes? Raccoons? None are desirable in your yard. Mink or weasel? Same, but they can probably get in anyway; hard to say.

Rogue bears would just push the fence down, so if there are bears in your area (there are here), you have to avoid attracting bear.

"This book tells me more about penguins than I care to know." (a quote given me by a dear friend about five decades ago).

Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:59:38 (PDT)


----------



## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

*Double-baffle gates in fencing*

I forgot to add about GATES in the fenced area!

I always have the main gate a double-baffle gate - that is TWO gates, with a baffle between them. The baffle area is about 4 feet wide, and at least six feet long - eight feet is better. The outer gate (outside the fenced area) swings outward, and the inner gate swings into the yard.

At the other end of the fenced aera, I have only a single gate - that's away from any normal treffic = not a gate people might try to open from outside the yard. But a double-baffle gate there would be fine, too.

Having a double-baffle gate helps prevent accidents such as - people forgetting to close the gate - thus allowing a dog to get outside the fence.

P.S. You don't have to fence in your whole yard! You can fence a fairly small portion, to help keep expenses down. Best that the fenced area NOT include the driveway. A local breeder lost a dog in the driveway - driven over by a visitor.

Wed, 11 Jul 2012 07:07:33 (PDT)


----------



## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Where I live many of the houses have these fences, when walking my dogs it is a pain as many of these dogs run to the line and aggressively lung and bark at us and some go to the over them anyway. There are a few who use these fences when they are out with the dog, gardening these dogs usually are near their owners and couldn't be bothered. We have a special fenced yard for the dogs, we also built a deck off our sunroom in the dog yard, so we can spend time outside with them, I also have a wooded yard and a yard next to the dog yard none of them are fenced but as time goes on, urban sprawl and neighbors with their own vision of how things should be I have lost screening trees large limbs of Hickory trees and children damaging native growth by trambling on them and teaseing the dogs, even with the fence it is not safe leaving the dogs out on their own, so with in the next year or so, for me more fencing will be going up.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

great replies so far. I would spend the money and reinforce the fence you Hav.

Here are some different articles that can shed some light.

http://ow.ly/1IO7L

http://media.causes.com/ribbon/792146

http://www.ust.is/media/ljosmyndir/dyralif/Trainingdogswithshockcollar.pdf

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a783707194~db=all

http://www.hollysden.com/say-no-to-shock-collars.htm#Invisible_Fencing_Systems

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/05.30/01-fear.html - 4th paragraph is especially telling

http://www.positivedogs.com/articles/electronic_fencing.html

http://www.positivedogs.com/articles/lisag.html


----------



## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

I sent you a PM.


----------



## BennyBoy (Apr 25, 2012)

Plenty of my neighbors have invisible fences for their small dogs - works just fine.

I could get a hard fence, but that doesn't do much for when the dog follows my kids out of the garage door - shall I fence my front yard too?

My goal is to keep the dog from being hit by a car. We are a big busy family and watching my dog's every move is not going to happen, so I want to do what I can to ensure his safety.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

If you think an electric fence is going to guarantee your dog from not running out into traffic , you're looking for trouble. I know hundreds of trainers who have experienced numerous problems with these devices. I don't know of one who recommends them.


----------



## BennyBoy (Apr 25, 2012)

davetgabby said:


> If you think an electric fence is going to guarantee your dog from not running out it traffic , you're looking for trouble. I know hundreds of trainers who have experienced numerous problems with these devices. I don't know of one who recommends them.


 I don't know of any way to GUARANTEE that my dog doesn't run in the street, do you?

You may not know anyone who recommends them, but I have countless neighbors who are very happy with them. Are they professional dog trainers? Nope, but why would that matter? They love their animals just like we all do.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

BennyBoy said:


> I don't know of any way to GUARANTEE that my dog doesn't run in the street, do you?
> 
> You may not know anyone who recommends them, but I have countless neighbors who are very happy with them. Are they professional dog trainers? Nope, but why would that matter? They love their animals just like we all do.


You haven't talked to the people who have had bad experiences , read the articles.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

There are all kinds of people that love their dogs. That doesn't mean they know what's good for them.


----------



## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

Hey Bennyboy,

if you want want to use the invisible fence go ahead. no one here can stop you. you started the thread to find out info about it and opinions. I'm sorry you aren't getting the responses that your neighbors are giving you.

I have not tried an invisible fence but I did research it. before I had my 1/2 hav, I've always had anatolian shepherds. they tend to wander and expand their territory. I have a completely fenced in yard, this was to keep my dogs at least in the neighborhood if they got out. anatolians actually learn that the pain only lasts for a little while. so many anatolians escape with invisible fences b/c they have learned the pain is only temporary.

also I'm not a fan of physical pain for an animal to teach them something.

you asked, how can you guarantee your dog does not run out into the street.

you and your family are the guarantee. saying you aren't going to watch the dog's every move isn't going to happen is a cop out. you all need to take the responsibility and training to secure your dog before 'walking out of the garage' and make sure your dog isn't following you. dogs can't pick locks and open closed doors, ok, maybe some dogs can, but most can't.

your backyard not being fenced is an issue. 

have you thought about a 'shock collar'. bear with me, i don't mean for you to use the 'shock' function but the vibration function to train your dog to learn the boundaries you want it to obey. just a thought.

Or maybe you make a big expen type thing in your yard so your dog can't run loose.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

sprorchid said:


> Hey Bennyboy,
> 
> if you want want to use the invisible fence go ahead. no one here can stop you. you started the thread to find out info about it and opinions. I'm sorry you aren't getting the responses that your neighbors are giving you.
> 
> ...


Well said , but this is a shock collar. And they do work like any form of punishment . but at what cost . The whole principle behind them is that the shock has to be strong enough to deter the unwanted action. A small "tickle" is not going to work. Dogs become accustomed to low levels of shock and invariable need more shocking. That is the fundamental reason why punishment is not the best form of training. But great reply , training and management is what is needed. We can't leave our infants unattended and we shouldn't leave our dogs either , if they are not safe. Great post Jacqueline


----------



## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

Hey Dave,
My understanding is that the vibration setting on the collars have different amplitudes like the 'shock'. My suggestion is only coming from the lesser of the evils in that realm. 
instead of inducing pain, it is fear or 'scaring' the dog with the vibration that is being used. neither is ideal in my opinion.
you already know my philosphy that negative conditioning to induce or deter a behavior is not my preference. I understand and agree that tolerance or being accustomed/desensitized to the negative stimuli is always going to occur and hence a higher input of negative stimuli is thus needed. 

Ideally human or dog is not put in a situation that would set the stage for a behavior or poor choice to take place. for instance I strongly dislike crowds. it stresses me out. so I avoid them, hence avoiding the stress. my 1/2 have does not 'like' intact males. he shows distinct behaviors when in the presence of an intact male. therefore I limit distance and contact with intact males. If I wanted to I could systematically desensitize my little guy to intact males.

anyway, we're just posting our opinions. in the end bennyboy you do have the final say. we are glad that you are seeking a solution to keeping your dog from getting hit by a car.


----------



## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

This is a decision for you to make, but I will give you my opinion. We have a physical fence. My next door neighbors have a papillion and have an electric fence. She breaks through it at least once a week and runs over to my house to visit the dogs. I have found her up the street from our house and escorted her home many times. They have kids too and this is why they thought an electric fence would be better. I do know others whose dogs have never run through them. My fear is also that if they run through it, they won't go back because they will get shocked. I have had that with my neighbor on the other side who has a 40 lb mixed breed. She runs over to our driveway and then I have to take her collar off and take her home or she won't go. 

Could you put gates on your doorways? I know it is a pain to have people climb over gates, but it is pretty safe. We watch dogs in our home, so I have my kitchen and den gated off so no dogs can get to the front door. We have ex-pens set up in front of the gates outside so that if someone walks in, they then need to step over the ex-pen to get in the yard an the dogs can't get out. 

Just a few ideas for you. I hope you figure out a good solution. I know my breeder feels very strongly about no electric fences and will not sell dogs to a home with an electric fence. I would always have the fear that my dogs would be a sitting ducks in the yard for some other dogs or animals to come in and harm them.


----------



## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

From someone who has used the invisible fence--not good for little dogs. It worked really well with the yellow lab that could climb my six-foot high wooden fence. I put the invisible wire on top of the fence finally and Daisy only got shocked twice. Once because she was used to the beep being on the ground and she would just jump up on the fence and evade the shock--then she had to try one more time at a different place. No more trouble after that. But the shock can be set at different distances and you have to really train your dog to the fence. If not trained they will run right through it. I have two calves in the back enclosed with nothing but one strand of electric wire. They test it often, but do not go through. But stillo do not recommend for small dogs. Like I said before put up a line for it to run on or keep in the house all the time. You wouldn't worry about your toddler getting in the street because you would be watching all the time. Little dogs are the same as toddlers. They don't know any better. 

I can guarantee that Rosie won't run in the street. I do not let her feet touch the ground outside of the fenced area. I pick her up and carry her to the car and then carry her inside whereever we are going or she is on leash. The only place she is allowed off leash is in the fenced area. I do not let my 2-year old grandson out of the house either. My son-in-law owns the original invisible fence company, I know what I am talking about.


----------

