# update pg. 4, little puppy potty training method poll



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Pam is thinking about training the week old litter that we have now to a different method than the litter that we have been using for so long. She is leaning towards the Ugodog, and wants to come up with the easiest system for a new owner. The little ones will be started on another surface and when large enough to handle the grate on the Ugodog, we'll make the transition, so when they leave here they will be used to the Ugodog.

Problems with litter: Purina no longer sells the right size box to work best in an expen. Bags of litter are fairly heavy to move into the house. Litter ends up on the floor, and hurts to step on with a bare foot.

http://www.ugodog.net/


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Thanks for the votes so far. For those that don't know, this is for training puppies starting at 3 weeks old, so they will know some method when they go to their new homes. This doesn't mean they are housetrained at that young age, but makes it a lot easier for a new owner to finish their training.


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

i have a new yet unused Ugodog in the garage, just waiting for a puppy. I've had it for 2 years, thinking I could train my two to use it so I wouldn't have to get up so early on the weekend and go down three flights of stairs at our lake condo. Obviously, they never took to it and I never insisted.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I have lots of piddle pads too....................we ended up using the outside lawn. But, I would think with tiny little ones, I would go with the pads.


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

My new puppy and littermates used the ugodog since 3-4 weeks old . They were comfortable walking on it... no need to use any other surface before the ugodog grates, I think.


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

Tom King said:


> Pam is thinking about training the week old litter that we have now to a different method than the litter that we have been using for so long. She is leaning towards the Ugodog, and wants to come up with the easiest system for a new owner. The little ones will be started on another surface and when large enough to handle the grate on the Ugodog, we'll make the transition, so when they leave here they will be used to the Ugodog.
> 
> Problems with litter: Purina no longer sells the right size box to work best in an expen. Bags of litter are fairly heavy to move into the house. Litter ends up on the floor, and hurts to step on with a bare foot.
> 
> http://www.ugodog.net/


Aaahhhh hummm, Tom, I think I read that your computer is down, but how can you expect us not to ask for puppy pics? Be reasonable! :frusty:


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

I have two ugodogs that I rotate for cleaning. When they were little I found a really nice Korean made potty on ebay, very similar but smaller. The size was perfect for them in the ex pen.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Lsprick said:


> Aaahhhh hummm, Tom, I think I read that your computer is down, but how can you expect us not to ask for puppy pics? Be reasonable! :frusty:


I almost have it worked out. I bought a cheap laptop to hold us over until I can build a new computer. The keyboard is a PIA, but I have the website software loaded on it now, and Pam may be able to do something with it tomorrow. I was able to save the hard drive out of the main computer, and have a reader to get files off of it onto the laptop, but I'm used to typing fast, and the laptop keyboard is a major PIA.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

shimpli said:


> My new puppy and littermates used the ugodog since 3-4 weeks old . They were comfortable walking on it... no need t wito use any other surface before the ugodog grates, I think.


Thanks. I was concerned about mid night cleanups with 6 puppies, so we thought we might start with something else easy to clean quickly, but we may just get extra grates.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

In a way, I like the litter better than a Ugodog with pee pad, because it is more environmentally friendly as well as a LOT less expensive. 

OTOH, a Ugodog is a LOT more portable, and there is no worry of the dog swallowing pellets. For some reason, if kodi sees me cleaning the litter box, he immedieately goes over and starts trying to eat it. That's the ONLY time he does this, but I either have to clean the box when he's busy with someone else, or I have to cover the litter until he forgets about it again.

I ended up buying the Rascal Dog boxes, which can be used with litter, with a grate with XXX under it, or with a grass pad over the grate. The grass pads got smelly really fast, and NOTHING I did got the smell out enough for me to be willing to have them in the house. Then I tried the grate with a pee pad under it. Kodi will pee on this, but absolutely refused to poop on the grate. I eventually just went back to using the Rascal Dog boxes as a litter box, with the grate to cover it when he starts trying to eat it. (I take it off again once he's lost interest, so it is available if he wants to poop indoors, which doesn't happen often anyway)

The Rascal Dog boxes are great... Especially for for dogs that need to circle before they poop.:biggrin1: the ONLY problem with them is that they are expensive.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I trained mine on a washable pads. The problem is they get confused because the surface is similar to rugs. Mine have sence been using just pads but they also get confused with white towels on the floor. I also used fake grass just on my patio that works really good and is not very expensive to just replace every mo. I would hose it off but still liked buying new every four weeks. 
If I was to do it all over again I would try to make something similar to the ugo system I saw some grating at home depot that looked like the same stuff. I think its for celling lighting . The reason I like that idea is the texture cant get confused as rugs.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Ugodog openings are 3/8" square. That size scares us for 3 week old feet. Also, the size of the Ugodog doesn't fit tightly in an expen any kind of way.

The Little Rascal grate hole sizes are a little less than 1/4". That looks a lot better for little feet. Also, the grate size fits nice and tight in a 2 ' wide expen width. We may start with just the Little Rascal grate with a pad under it.

It shouldn't be any issue at all for one to go from a Little Rascal to a Ugodog since the surfaces are so similar.

Nothing is any easier to keep clean in middle of the night poop pickups than litter, because you can just grab it with some toilet paper and flush it, not worrying about getting a little litter with it. I'm not looking forward to switching out grates while I'm still mostly asleep, but if it works out better for new puppy owners, I guess we can get used to it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yeah, Tom. I have very mixed feelings because there are some things I like very much about litter. Besides eco-friendliness, price, and the ease of poop removal, I really like the fact that you can so easily see if the've peed in it and remove it right away. with the grate, it's hard to see, and Kodi is VERY fastidious about using a "dirty" (i.e. has been peed in ONCE) litter box. 

Still there are big advantages to a grate system, and I REALLY wish Kodi would fully accept it. It would make things much easier for me when traveling.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Maybe we can train them to more than one method.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> Maybe we can train them to more than one method.


Perfect! And the Rascal Dog certainly gives you a lot of options. But if Kodi would accept the grate to poop on, I CAN use the Rascal Dog, even with the grate, and put litter under it... ALMOST the best of all worlds. You do still have to spray the grate off from time to time, but you still have the cheap price and environmentally friendly properties of the pellets. I suppose you could just use newspaper under it too, if you wanted, but I think that might smell more than the pellets do, and be messier to change.

Although I won't use the grass mats anymore in the house, I was contemplating putting a third Rascal Dog on the back porch with a grass mat. When we were in the trying-the-grass-mat stage, he was perfectly willing to poop on that. If he'd accept it on the porch as a place to poop, we could avoid the nasty weather, and I wouldn't have to deal with smells in the house. Hmmm.

BTW, did you see Kodi on the Rascal Dog "testimonial" pages?:biggrin1:


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

I use both washable and disposible pee pads and my dogs go out too. I tried litter with my first two Hav litters but the mother and puppies ate it. I was concerned about the paper swelling in their tummy. I might try the wood pellets with my new litter. I did a sheltie litter with the paper litter and they did fine.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Becky Chittenden said:


> I use both washable and disposible pee pads and my dogs go out too. I tried litter with my first two Hav litters but the mother and puppies ate it. I was concerned about the paper swelling in their tummy. I might try the wood pellets with my new litter. I did a sheltie litter with the paper litter and they did fine.


I tried the paper pellets just ONCE when we had a shortage of wood pellets around here, and never again. First, like you, I was concerned at the ALARMING rate and size that they swelled to. Second, I stated to have trouble with Kodi peeing outside the box (RIGHT outside the box). This was when he was much younger, but still, he was very reliable about using his box by then.

When I got down on my hands and knees to clean up the pee on the floor, I realized that the box stunk to high heavens of ammonia! Unlike the wood pellets, which disintegrate and make a little mound of sawdust when they get wet, the paper pellets allow the liquid to drain through, and swell up underneath, still holding their shape. So the box LOOKED clean, even though it was very dirty. No wonder he didn't want to use the box with it smelling like that! I switched back to wood pellets immediately, and immediately the peeing outside the box stopped too.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I think we'll start this litter of puppies on wood pellets at night for easy, quick cleanup, and switch to a grated system during the day when we can monitor them more completely. We absolutely don't want them to get used to walking in it. That way they should recognize both surfaces as a proper place.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Tom, I am dying to see pictures of the new pups but also of Brio, the last pic I saw of him, he was a tiny pup. If he is growing as much as Toby, then he must be gorgeous.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Pam weighed Brio yesterday, and he weighs 11 pounds exactly. Yes he's gorgeous. A darker silver than Twinkle. Pam took him to a show just to socialize him, and he pranced around everywhere, always with his tail up, and let anyone who wanted to put there hands on him on the table. Pam was working on getting some pictures on the website, but got called away.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Toby is also 11 lbs. Same height as Bumi, but longer body. His hair is so long that he looks like an adult dog already. He is nuts about the kids and my husband!:biggrin1:


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## Ruthi (Nov 10, 2011)

Hi, I love the ugodog. Otis loves it, and he has no problem with circleing to poop, lol. Also, you can improvise if you are worried about the little feet. You can buy plastic grating that is much smaller at Lowes, and cut it to what ever size you need. works the same way. I did that for a while before I bought my ugodog.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Thanks Ruthi. We have at least one of every type made. The other trouble with the Ugodog for us with the baby puppies, is the size doesn't fill up any space we will use. The Rascal has a grate made of the same type of plastic, and even the same color. The Rascal grate fits tightly in a 2' wide space, which will work fine for us. I don't think there will be any problem at all for the puppies to go from using the Rascal grate in a confinced space, to using the Ugodog when they are ready for some running around space. Hopefully, you'll see them using the Ugodog in videos when they are out on the screened porch playing, when the time comes​


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

*Another reason we will need to keep the wood pellet litter at night, other than quick and easy cleanup, that I just remembered: We keep a baby monitor right beside the puppies, and our bedroom is in the adjacent room. I can hear their feet hit the pellets, and get up to attend them, almost automatically, without even waking all the way up. I don't think I will be awakened enough by them walking on the plastic grate.*

I don't know why that came out printed in bold.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> *Another reason we will need to keep the wood pellet litter at night, other than quick and easy cleanup, that I just remembered: We keep a baby monitor right beside the puppies, and our bedroom is in the adjacent room. I can hear their feet hit the pellets, and get up to attend them, almost automatically, without even waking all the way up. I don't think I will be awakened enough by them walking on the plastic grate.*
> 
> I don't know why that came out printed in bold.


Maybe it was at the thought of all those wake-up calls all night long!ound:


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

The UgoDog has worked well for us. If you still get a daily newspaper, that is what we use in the bottom of ours, rather than a piddle pad. So that is how we recycle our newspapers. Use several layers. We change the paper daily and spray the tray and grate with hot water. It doesn't seem to retain odor. The poop never falls through the holes, so that has to be removed; it isn't sitting there stinking all day.


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

Tom King said:


> Another reason we will need to keep the wood pellet litter at night, other than quick and easy cleanup, that I just remembered: We keep a baby monitor right beside the puppies, and our bedroom is in the adjacent room. I can hear their feet hit the pellets, and get up to attend them, almost automatically, without even waking all the way up. I don't think I will be awakened enough by them walking on the plastic grate.


Tom, You've got to be kidding! Maccabee runs across the living room and leaps into his litter box and barely makes a sound. Maybe I need to trip his paws again. The hair must be muffling the sound of his feet hitting the litter. LOL.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

HannahBearsMom said:


> Tom, You've got to be kidding! Maccabee runs across the living room and leaps into his litter box and barely makes a sound. Maybe I need to trip his paws again. The hair must be muffling the sound of his feet hitting the litter. LOL.


I was always able to hear when Toby was in his litter box (not when I was sleeping, I didn't have a baby monitor next to him  ) but during the day you could hear it crunching.

PS: He no longer has a box.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Brody took really well to the Ugodog, his breeder used pads though. How on earth she made that work is beyond me, because he's a terror with anything paper! I tried having a pad at work for him and he just tore it apart.

I've watched a few puppy cams where the breeder used the Ugodog grates, but I've honestly never paid attention to how old/big they were when the grates were introduced.


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## lhwalker11 (Mar 4, 2012)

*Little Rascal with no grass?*

Hi all!

I stalk this board regularly and how found the information to be incredible helpful in my husband's and my research in the breed, breeders, etc. Now all looks good to bring a 9 week old pup home in August (provided the pups seem well socialized, etc. when we go to meet them in a few weeks...we expect them to be as we've visited the breeder before and her dogs are fabulous, great temperaments, all health testing etc)! We are getting VERY excited for our first Havanese!

Anyway, I have been reading this thread as we're looking into the best system for our new pup. The breeder uses pads, and we live in a third floor apartment. We do have a yard, but it doesn't connect directly (we have to go out and around) and we do want to use some sort of indoor potty system. I'd been thinking of the Ugo Dog but am intrigued by the Little Rascal you mentioned. Can one of you post the website? It seems like what you're mentioning has a grate (that you could put litter/pads/papers under), but when I did a quick Google search I came up with the "Rascal Dog" which seems to use only synthetic grass without a grate. I like the idea of the grate-- am I looking at the wrong site (www.rascaldoglitterbox.com) or misunderstanding the difference in this and Ugo Dog? Also, with the Ugo Dog, is there enough room under the grates to use litter instead of pads if you want? It looks more shallow, but I like the idea of the wood litter.

All of my previous dog experiences have been with large dogs in the suburbs, so I'm new to this raising-a-small-dog-in-the-city thing. Thanks for your help!

Lisa


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Yes, that's the same Rascal we've been talking about. It has a grate with small holes under the grass. It can be used several different ways. You don't have to use the grass.

It would be best to not make an abrupt change with your little one from what it has the habit using at the breeder's. It is easiest to make a transition at an early age though. If it is used to a pad, put the pad in the box to start with, and gradually make it smaller.


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## lhwalker11 (Mar 4, 2012)

Tom,

Thanks so much for the speedy reply! I think it's a good idea to use the pads in the box, especially at first while the pup is getting used to the change. I mostly don't want to use just pads because I'm not crazy about the shredding potential or the stepping in it, but that idea could help make the transition smoother.

Thanks!
Lisa


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Tom... these were my issues when I tried UGODOG... 1rst, we got both boys in winter and found it really hard to clean in the sink, when we had no hose. A really awkward size. 2) loose poops and the grates are just horrible (see 1) 3)Jasper hated the feel of the grate (he has really sensitive feet) and we had some accidents because of that.

We always went back to ppads not matter what we tried. More absorbent than paper, easy to pick up and toss. relatively affordable, and easy to travel with. Even more affordable is medical bed pads that you can get from medical supplier. The only con I could not solve was the pee pad shredding. came home once to the boys and their room covered in white pee pad powder!!! it looked like a pillow fight in the movies. a little bitter apple helped but didn't end it totally. We used pee pads in a these plastic rabbit trays to define the space and help keep everything cleaner.

http://www.bassequipment.com/Kennels/Plastic+Pans/default.aspx

a pee pad fits in the 24 X 24 nicely and 2 fit (overlapped) in the 24 X 36. we used two...as the finicky boys needed a clean place to poo (but of course)

Hope this helps you decide what to do. I really like the rabbit pans and have them tucked away just in case puppyitis hits again.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Today the puppies are 3 weeks old. Pam set the whelping box up with the Rascal grate on one end, with a pad under it. In short order, there were 4 separate wet spots on the pad. We'll switch them back and forth from this to litter, so they learn about both. Pam tried just the pad, but they slipped around on it too much, and weren't sure-footed on it at this stage.


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## dickli (Jun 19, 2012)

Hello. This is my first post, but I've been reading a lot of good information on the site. I will say that my new puppy, Zoey (11 wks), is not a purebred Havanese, so I'm not sure if my postings are welcome or not, but I hope you don't mind. We're trying the Pet Patio Potty, which gives the option of using artificial grass or gravel on top of the plastic grate. Below the grate, cat litter can be used because the puppy can't get into it. I'm using a clumping litter. So far (only two days) she is doing great. I placed a little Purina dog litter on top of the grass because that's what she's used to, and she used it as soon as we brought her home.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

dickli said:


> Hello. This is my first post, but I've been reading a lot of good information on the site. I will say that my new puppy, Zoey (11 wks), is not a purebred Havanese, so I'm not sure if my postings are welcome or not, but I hope you don't mind. We're trying the Pet Patio Potty, which gives the option of using artificial grass or gravel on top of the plastic grate. Below the grate, cat litter can be used because the puppy can't get into it. I'm using a clumping litter. So far (only two days) she is doing great. I placed a little Purina dog litter on top of the grass because that's what she's used to, and she used it as soon as we brought her home.


Hi! First of all, I wanted to tell you that you are INDEED welcome here!!! There are a number of people here who have part Havanese, and others who think their dog MIGHT be Havanese. (because the dog is a rescue, with no way to know for sure). It doesn't matter. If you are interested in the wellbeing of your little friend, you will be welcome here!

The Rascal Dog, which I use, is similar to the Pet Patio Potty, in that there is a grate that you put something under, and then you can put something (or nothing) on top of the grate. We used the fake grass for a short while. It was great in that Kodi took to it immediately. It was bad in that the fake grass quickly became to stinky to have in the house, no matter how often I washed it, and what I washed it in. We still use the Rascal Dog, but either open, with wood pellets in it, or with the grate over the top. Kodi will pee on the grate, but won't poop ther. That's OK, though, because he never wants to poop in the house anyway!


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## dickli (Jun 19, 2012)

Thanks, Krandall, for welcoming me. My puppy is part toy poodle. I'm sure I'm still in the honeymoon period, but she's been absolutely perfect so far.

I was hoping that with mostly outdoor pottying, the grass would be ok with a light bleaching once a week or so, but it might be a good idea to try something like wood pellets or gravel. I wonder if the gravel also starts to smell. You're supposed to be able to rinse it down with a hose or soak it in dilute beach solution periodically. My other dog, who's never used a box, tried to eat the dog litter I used to transition to grass (the new puppy didn't). Has anyone tried pea gravel or pea pebbles (available at Home Depot or garden stores)?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

dickli said:


> Thanks, Krandall, for welcoming me. My puppy is part toy poodle. I'm sure I'm still in the honeymoon period, but she's been absolutely perfect so far.
> 
> I was hoping that with mostly outdoor pottying, the grass would be ok with a light bleaching once a week or so, but it might be a good idea to try something like wood pellets or gravel. I wonder if the gravel also starts to smell. You're supposed to be able to rinse it down with a hose or soak it in dilute beach solution periodically. My other dog, who's never used a box, tried to eat the dog litter I used to transition to grass (the new puppy didn't). Has anyone tried pea gravel or pea pebbles (available at Home Depot or garden stores)?


I've never tried pea gravel in the litter box... I'm sure it would be HEAVY!!! That said, I know that Kodi LOVES this surface for eliminating. This is what is used in the runs at our training center. With regular hosing, they don't smell at all with multiple dogs (including mostly big dogs) using them. But that's out doors. I'm not sure if it would smell indoors.

They said the same thing about my fake grass (hose down and soak in bleach) but it didn't work. I even tried doing that, then soaking it in enzymatic rug cleaner in hopes of keeping the smell down. I was never able to get it to a level that I found tolerable. Maybe my nose is more sensitive than most!

Is your puppy one of the Island Mini Doodles?


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

The pups are doing great with their potty training so far. I don't believe the bedding has ever been wet. This afternoon, Blanchi had a bath. She's in full coat, so it took a while to dry her. By the time we were finished, it was time to feed the dogs, so Blanchi wanted to come in the kitchen while hers was being prepared. By the time she finally went back into the room where the puppies are, there were two poops on the grate. The Mom takes care of this while she is still nursing, so this is a couple of weeks earlier than we start looking for poop cleanup. The bedding was clean and dry. They are 3 weeks and 4 days old.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

Charley uses the litter and I must admit that I really love it. Like everyone else has said, it's easy to grap the poop and easy to see when he has peed. There is absolutely no smell with the litter and I can hear when he goes into it. Although I probably wouldn't switch I'm interested to see how the ugo dog works out. I don't think I would like stinky pads though. I have a scooper that cleans up the pee so nice and easy. Anyway, looking forward to following this thread.


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

Charleysmom said:


> Charley uses the litter and I must admit that I really love it. Like everyone else has said, it's easy to grap the poop and easy to see when he has peed. There is absolutely no smell with the litter and I can hear when he goes into it. Although I probably wouldn't switch I'm interested to see how the ugo dog works out. I don't think I would like stinky pads though. I have a scooper that cleans up the pee so nice and easy. Anyway, looking forward to following this thread.


I feel exactly the way you do, but I'd love it if Maccabee could use pads when we travel. Thus far we've only taken car trips, so lugging a litter box (a covered Sterlite container) with us has not been a problem. But if we go somewhere by plane, I can't imagine taking a litter box and litter with us. Buying a Sterlite box wouldn't be that difficult, but finding the wood pellets might be.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

For close traveling, like in an airplane seat, Pam puts 3 or 4 handfuls of litter in the middle of a piddle pad, folds it up, and puts it in a ziplock bag. If the pup has to go, and knows what the litter is for, they will always use it. More than a few have left here, that were flying home with their new owner, with this setup. Anyone that's ever needed it, said it worked fine.

It would probably be a good way to train one to use just the pad too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> For close traveling, like in an airplane seat, Pam puts 3 or 4 handfuls of litter in the middle of a piddle pad, folds it up, and puts it in a ziplock bag. If the pup has to go, and knows what the litter is for, they will always use it. More than a few have left here, that were flying home with their new owner, with this setup. Anyone that's ever needed it, said it worked fine.
> 
> It would probably be a good way to train one to use just the pad too.


Yes, it worked great for Kodi on the way home from your house, a trip that included two long drives plus the flight and airport time in between. Unfortunately, when I tried the same thing later, he completely refused to use it. So I think if people want to continue too do that, or want to change them over completely to a pad, you have to do it when they are still little.


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

Tom King said:


> For close traveling, like in an airplane seat, Pam puts 3 or 4 handfuls of litter in the middle of a piddle pad, folds it up, and puts it in a ziplock bag. If the pup has to go, and knows what the litter is for, they will always use it. More than a few have left here, that were flying home with their new owner, with this setup. Anyone that's ever needed it, said it worked fine.
> 
> It would probably be a good way to train one to use just the pad too.


I think that MIGHT work during the traveling phase, but what about once we arrive at our destination? I think it would be difficult to find the wood pellets in a city or touristy area.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

HannahBearsMom said:


> I think that MIGHT work during the traveling phase, but what about once we arrive at our destination? I think it would be difficult to find the wood pellets in a city or touristy area.


If you're doing it the way Pam does, you only need a handful of pellets. It's really only to give them the idea that the pee pad is the place to go. The pee pad does most of the absorbing. I think a gallon size bag of pellets would last a week or two.

We haven't travelled with Kodi by plane since bringing him home, but when we travel either by car or with our travel trailer, we just bring a 5 gallon covered bucket from Home Depot with pellets in it, and our smallest litter box. He doesn't LIKE the small litter box, but will use it for emergency pees, (like first thing in the morning on the 7th floor of a hotel ) which is all we need at this point. In the travel trailer, his litter box is set up all the time, just like at home. Even with this larger litter box, a 5 gallon bucket of pellets lasts more than 3 weeks... The longest we've ever been away.


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