# mounting monster



## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

Hi

Haven't been here in awhile. Charley is now 18 mos. He's perfect in every way except that he loves to mount/hump other dogs. Doesn't matter the size. I wish the other dogs would snap back at him so that he'd stop but they don't. Charley is not aggressive in any other way - he's never shown teeth, growled or acted possessive. He's a very confidant little guy that just feels the need to hump other dogs. 

I don't know how to get him to stop. Is there something I can do?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

if no one is complaining let him Hav some fun lol. Here's more. 

Mounting by Jean Donaldson 

For the most part mounting is a sexual thing. Here once again is an article that explains it. 
Oh behave: Love and mounting 
October 31, 2008, By Jean Donaldson, ARTICLE, BEHAVIOUR 
My female dog mounts other dogs. Why does she do it? I assume she’s dominating others. She’ll be playing well with a dog and then suddenly she’s mounting him or her. I find it obnoxious and so do many other owners. What’s the best way to get her to stop doing it?
Ah, love. I’ll tip the hand early and tell you the greatest likelihood is that mounting is a sexual behaviour. In fact, I think this could stand some screaming from the rooftops: mounting is sex, mounting is sex, mounting is sex! That this is not obvious to any onlooker is pretty amazing.

Let’s begin at the beginning. Fixed action patterns, or FAPs, are important behaviours that are pre-installed in animals, kind of like bundled software that comes with a computer. Fixed action patterns require no learning and are triggered by something in the environment. A classic example is a moving bit of string that triggers a six-week-old kitten to pounce. The pouncing sequence is stereotyped across all cats. Another example is how a cat will turn sideways, arch his back, puff up and hiss. This is a self-defense FAP, again common to all cats and stereotyped.

Ethologists have coined the four big areas of endeavour under which most FAPs fall the “Four F’s”: fight, flight, feeding and reproduction. Animals that lack competency in the Four F’s don’t pass on their incompetent genes; but interestingly, domestication allows the occasional Four F incompetence to creep in. Domesticated animals are no longer making a living in the world the same way as their wild forbearers did, so they can afford to drop certain software programs without penalty. A cow without a well-developed flight response is in much less danger than a deer. In some cases, breeding practices have deliberately softened up or greatly raised the triggering threshold for an FAP, such as in the case of Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, which for the most part eschew fighting.

Cats are an interesting case as they retain most, if not all, of their Four F FAPs. Because of this, many consider them a semi-domesticated or even a non-domesticated species. Dogs, however, are all over the map – breed- and individual-wise – with regard to Four-F-FAP retention. A given dog may or may not be very predatory (feeding), skittish and neophobic (flight), or highly competitive over resources (fight).

Sex matters
On to sex. At last. Reproductive behaviour is, evolutionarily speaking, the biggest and most important of the Four F’s. An animal that lacks super-duper strong courtship and reproductive FAPs doesn’t pass on its ascetic genes. Genes are keen to get passed on and never neglect to install the pass-me-on-now urge, action and wow-was-that-ever-rewarding software in the animals they build. For the most part, domestic animals retain repro FAPs, although technology like AI reduces selection pressure here.

Sexual behaviour in animals has been studied a great deal. Female mounting is not at all unusual, especially during courtship. In one rat study, female mounting of what a girl rat considered a sluggish male was referred to as a “super-solicitational” behaviour. Perhaps the rat equivalent of fishnets and a push-up bra.

In dogs, the courtship and reproduction sequence was studied in considerable detail by Frank Beach, Ariel Merari and Ian Dunbar at the University of California at Berkeley. A female that’s ready to mate might flirt with a male by mounting, clasping and thrusting for a bit, then get off, run away and stop, hopefully with a super-solicited male in hot pursuit, not to mention oriented at the operative end of the female.

I don’t mean to suggest that your dog is, uh, loose, primarily because in play all manner of Four F FAPs are expressed in a giant jumble. In fact, the leading interpretation of why animals play in the first place is that they are rehearsing key FAPs. Dog play consists of chasing (feeding FAP by the chaser, flight FAP by the chasee); play biting (fight and feeding); wrestling, body slamming and pinning (fight and feeding); and courtship and copulatory behaviours such as pawing, mounting, clasping and thrusting. These are punctuated by meta-signals such as play-bows, bouncy movements and grinning play faces, which signal the playful intent of the F’s that precede and follow. And note, all sexes might mount other sexes: it’s play.

So, when you say she’s “playing well,” I presume you mean she’s biting, chasing, slamming and wrestling with other dogs. I am wholly fascinated by the sheer number of dog owners out there who find these behaviours non-obnoxious but consider sex play across the line or, amazingly, not about sex at all! At any dog park you’ll see owners continually and automatically defaulting to a non-sexual explanation for mounting, notably our old favourite, dominance. Now, I’m no shrink but unless dogs are way more into S & M than anybody has reckoned, when an animal mounts and thrusts, I think we need to rule out sex before entertaining other interpretations. In other words, when an animal does the granddaddy of all FAPs during play, mightn’t it be play sex, just like play fighting, play predation and play fleeing? Bottom line: She is also playing well when she mounts!

I am not sure whether the abstemious streak in North American culture whirls us, like a centrifuge, away from the S word when we see copulatory behaviours during play, or whether we’re so dominance-obsessed we co-opt nookie-nookie into some sort of power play. In any case, if you would like less of it, provide a non-violent consequence, such as a time out, whenever she does it. It could be two minutes outside the play area, or you could march her back to the car and take her straight home.

If, on the other hand, you think you might consider allowing her to do it during play, perform a consent test. If you suspect at any time that her partner may not be consenting, pull her off for a moment. Does the mountee grab this opportunity to get away? Does he or she hang out nearby? Or does he or she solicit play from your dog? This consent test works for pinning, wrestling, chasing and other behaviours where there is any doubt about whether both dogs are enjoying the action.

The consent of both dog owners is also important. Although I’ve poked fun at some of the Puritanical motives that may be driving us 180° away from interpretations of mounting that involve sex, no owner at a dog park should be bullied by other owners, however well-meaning, into allowing some activity with which they are uncomfortable, including mounting. If everyone passes the consent test, the dogs can proceed.

By Jean Donaldson


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I think the "consent test" part is HUGE and both owners have to be aware of it, and supervising carefully. When Kodi was younger, (full sized but not yet mature) we went to several Havanese play dates where there was one dog who would IMMEDIATELY target him, and start humping him over and over again, never letting him have any peace unless he was in my lap. Kodi CLEARLY didn't like it, because he would hover under my chair, and ask to get back in my lap every time the dog got near him. The owner never did anything about it other than say "Oh, "xxxx", leave Kodi alone!" Without stopping her dog. 

I think that's wrong. I think it's just like allowing your child to bully another. It FINALLY got sorted out, over a year later, when Kodi was mature enough to turn on the dog and snark at him. After Kodi told him off, the other dog left him alone. But until Kodi had the confidence to push this dog away himself, I had to protect him. The owner did nothing.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Karen, what you described happening with Kodi also happened with Augie at a Hav gathering when he was about 13 months old, Augie being the humpee. I read this article with interest because I have two total opposite ends of the spectrum residing here. Finn plays well in ALL areas, whereas Augie is definitely missing a bit of wiring....or maybe he is just more domesticated?  Although Augie is trying to learn. When they are playing now and wrestling, I've noticed that he now will hump Finn. But while Augie tolerates it from Finn, Finn hates it when the tables are turned. Usually, a sharp 'Finn, Off' gets his attention and he will stop. I keep hoping Augie will put him in his place but so far it hasn't happened.


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Not much of an expert on this subject, Timmy has a stuffed monkey he has his way with. I just came across this article and thought it might be an interesting read

http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/dog-behavior-training-5-reasons-hump-other-dogs


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

I don't think the dogs Charlie humps are enjoying it. They try to move away and there's Charlie trying to hump a moving dog. It's a ridiculous sight. I don't believe there is any consent. 
I want to stop this behavior and don't know how. he's relentless. He's a fast learner and maybe there's something I need to do??????


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

I just read your article Jen and if I were to guess I think for Charley the humping is a form of arousal and that it just feels good. He's generally trying to engage the dog in play as well and perhaps when he can't get them to play he humps? Just a guess? 

There are many neighborhood dogs here. I could try the stay with me routine but Charlie loves to play and it's hard to keep him from his friends. By the way, once the dogs start actively playing the humping usually subsides a bit. It's sort of an either or thing with him. 

But very frustrating. The other owners don't seem to object - not to my face anyway. :gossip:

I'd really like to stop this behavior. Or at least have some control over it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> I just read your article Jen and if I were to guess I think for Charley the humping is a form of arousal and that it just feels good. He's generally trying to engage the dog in play as well and perhaps when he can't get them to play he humps? Just a guess?
> 
> There are many neighborhood dogs here. I could try the stay with me routine but Charlie loves to play and it's hard to keep him from his friends. By the way, once the dogs start actively playing the humping usually subsides a bit. It's sort of an either or thing with him.
> 
> ...


If he were my dog, I'd handle it just the way I'd handle a dog humping a human's leg. I would be absolutely consistent about stopping it (even if it meant dragging him off) and redirecting him to a better behavior, as many times and as often as was needed until he got the message.

Remember, also, that Pam is a WONDERFUL resource for dealing with problem behaviors in your young dog... She's seen it all!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Not the Pam Karen is talking about but the Pam who is ashamed to admit that she owns a serial humper....

Jack is TERRIBLE. Front, back, side, ear.... He will try to hump it. I used to take him to a small dog play group. hump, hump, hump... I would let it go unless he was causing distress or preventing play. Or until I couldn't stand it anymore. I try distraction... yeah, right.. hump, hump, hump..... 

Some dogs he would play and chase. Those are the ones that snap at his humping. It is the poor timid ones that he tortured. They never escaped unless I rescued them. He didn't hurt them, just trapped them.

I haven't taken him back in a long time. They stopped the group and I wasn't up for playing with the big dogs.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

of course you are right Karen. I need to be consistent. So is it a reprimand. I hardly ever reprimand Charley. he's so well behaved except for this behavior. Aside from being a pick pocket and a thief! But that I don't mind. He's always stealing tissues from my pocket!!!

Is a firm "NO" what's needed? And then if he doesn't stop just drag him away? I have not been consistent about this at all. Not even slightly. Do I pull him off the dog? Should it be a very firm reprimand? In other words, let him know I'm really serious. 

If this fails I will definitely contact Pam.


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

I have had this issue, not horribly but I don't like it with Atticus. It only seems to happen with shy dogs that don't want to play who do not tell Atticus to stop . What I do is say "off" or "leave it" which are commands he knows. I will try to distract with running or a ball. IF it continues I leash him. I just don't think it is fair to the other dog or owner to have my dog making either of them uncomfortable. To be honest if someone said "oh thats ok with me" I would still stop him as I really do not want this behavior. He knows perfectly well how to play appropriately. he has easily stopped this behavior,I would never want it to become a "habit". Sometimes if I am on the floor with him he will hump me but (although I am somewhat amused) I always stop it and do something else.


'

'


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> of course you are right Karen. I need to be consistent. So is it a reprimand. I hardly ever reprimand Charley. he's so well behaved except for this behavior. Aside from being a pick pocket and a thief! But that I don't mind. He's always stealing tissues from my pocket!!!
> 
> Is a firm "NO" what's needed? And then if he doesn't stop just drag him away? I have not been consistent about this at all. Not even slightly. Do I pull him off the dog? Should it be a very firm reprimand? In other words, let him know I'm really serious.
> 
> If this fails I will definitely contact Pam.


I would physically separate him and the other dog. Be firm about it, but you don't have to be mean or angry-seeming... Just matter of fact. Decide on a word for stopping the behavior. It can be part of your universal "Leave it!" Command, for that matter.

When You use "Leave it!", do it with a bright, cheery voice, and encourage the dog to look toward you, and leave off whatever they are doing. Immediately give him a treat. If you use a clicker, click the moment he disengages then give him the treat. I like "Leave it!" Because you can use it for all sorts of situations, including this. As Charley learns the "Leave it!" Better, you can actually interrupt him before he starts to mount another dog, by saying "Leave it!" Before he gets started.

You can generalize this command to all sorts of other things too, like rooting in pockets for Kleenex!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Atticus said:


> I have had this issue, not horribly but I don't like it with Atticus. It only seems to happen with shy dogs that don't want to play who do not tell Atticus to stop . What I do is say "off" or "leave it" which are commands he knows. I will try to distract with running or a ball. IF it continues I leash him. I just don't think it is fair to the other dog or owner to have my dog making either of them uncomfortable. To be honest if someone said "oh thats ok with me" I would still stop him as I really do not want this behavior. He knows perfectly well how to play appropriately. he has easily stopped this behavior,I would never want it to become a "habit". Sometimes if I am on the floor with him he will hump me but (although I am somewhat amused) I always stop it and do something else.'


Ha! I should have read your post first, Jody!


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

Karen, We are often on the same page but you make the extra effort to explain. Saying "leave it" is meaningless unless you have trained it!


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

I like these suggestions. Charley knows the "leave it" command but I've started to work more intensely on it again today and will continue. Over the weekend we're sure to see some other dogs and I will be prepared with the clicker and reward. Meanwhile I am going to work on tissues and bookmarks. THose seem to be his favorites things to run off with. 

I will keep you posted. Thank you.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

just as a follow. have been working on leave it with Charley and it's working out great. when he tried to mount a dog on sunday I said leave it and it worked. will continue to do this and will hopefully resolve this porblem. 
thanks so much for your advice.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> just as a follow. have been working on leave it with Charley and it's working out great. when he tried to mount a dog on sunday I said leave it and it worked. will continue to do this and will hopefully resolve this porblem.
> thanks so much for your advice.


Great work!!!


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

thanks Karen. repetition is key here.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> thanks Karen. repetition is key here.


Absolutely, but remember that consistency is at LEAST as important as repetition!


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

yes. and that too. thank you. I'll keep you posted.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

so today Charley was with a few dogs and he started mounting one and I said "leave it" and he stopped. I then gave him a treat. happened a few times. but something doesn't make sense to me now that I'm doing this. if Charley wants a treat, he'll just start the mount, I say leave it and then he gets a treat. how will this train him not to mount???!



Charleysmom said:


> I like these suggestions. Charley knows the "leave it" command but I've started to work more intensely on it again today and will continue. Over the weekend we're sure to see some other dogs and I will be prepared with the clicker and reward. Meanwhile I am going to work on tissues and bookmarks. THose seem to be his favorites things to run off with.
> 
> I will keep you posted. Thank you.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> so today Charley was with a few dogs and he started mounting one and I said "leave it" and he stopped. I then gave him a treat. happened a few times. but something doesn't make sense to me now that I'm doing this. if Charley wants a treat, he'll just start the mount, I say leave it and then he gets a treat. how will this train him not to mount???!


First, that's not how dogs think. If you were BRIBING him away from the other dog, by holding the treat out to get him away, you might have this problem. But when we use treats properly, as rewards, the treat reinforces the very last thing the dog does. In this case, that's leaving the other dog and coming to you. How great is that!

The next step, after he's really reliable about listening when you say "leave it" is to start a variable rate of reinforcement. That means that sometimes you give him a treat, other times, you just pet him and tell him how wonderful he was to listen to you! Variable reinforcement is actually MORE likely to increase the performance of the desired behavior than steady, every time reinforcement. (Assuming that the dog has truly learned the behavior... If there is any doubt on that, or if performance falls off, increase the rate of reinforcement again).

Over time, you will reduce the frequency of reinforcement until it's just occasional. But when you are asking him to leave off something that he finds highly desireable, (like humping) make sure that you still reinforce his compliance fairly frequently. Working for you needs to be a higher priority for him than humping. . The fact that he's come so far so fast says to me that he really does want to do what you ask of him.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

good stuff Karen. The first thing to understand is chaining. Chaining occurs where one behaviour that is cued causes at least one following behaviour to be carried out. This occurs when two behaviours have only one antecedent and one reward. A common example is the dog who jumps up and is taught to sit to get reward; dog jumps up, sits and then gets attention. Not all dogs are great at chaining.
You can avoid chaining with most dogs by getting the timing right.Generally just over three seconds between reward and cue will make it more difficult for most dogs to learn the connection between the chained behaviours. But, if you are concerned about the dog chaining how often is this combination of behaviours occurring?
'Leave it' should mean, if it is meant to be used in such contexts, stop what you are doing and come to me. Right now it seems that that cue, to the dog, means stop and get a treat and go back to what you were doing. 
Also, with a behaviour such as humping, what is the context in which this happened? Sometimes, in play this can be ok and sometimes it can be inappropriate and a sign that the dog is over aroused and that the play is too much. 
A better way of stopping this is to look at the cause of humping behaviour and supervise play a bit better.
Asking the dog for a leave it, recalling him and then asking him to carry out a couple of manners behaviours is probably a better idea. You can reward this with the opportunity for the dog to return to the game. This will allow for regular little breaks and calming down during play sessions.


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

Our Humane Society hosts a wonderful play date each week for dogs < 15 lbs. I took Sheldon last week, and he sat under my chair the whole time.

We returned this week, and Sheldon left the security of my chair and attempted to mount the couple of dogs that were smaller than him! My goodness, I have a 12 week old sex fiend on my hands. This does not bode well for doggie daycare.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

DebW said:


> Our Humane Society hosts a wonderful play date each week for dogs < 15 lbs. I took Sheldon last week, and he sat under my chair the whole time.
> 
> We returned this week, and Sheldon left the security of my chair and attempted to mount the couple of dogs that were smaller than him! My goodness, I have a 12 week old sex fiend on my hands. This does not bode well for doggie daycare.


From the time Leo came home I have interrupted with "Leave it" any mounting attempts aside from his "fun" with his bear friend. Now at 21 weeks he seldom attempts to mount the other dogs and responds quickly to the leave it command. Just be consistent and he'll get the message.


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## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

I have been trying to rid Sophie of cat humping for quite a while. I did time outs consistently for about a month. Now I say"no!" and pull her off, and her humping action continues for several seconds while I'm holding her. It is strange, at best. It is a sexual behavior and it is definitely play to Sophie. And the cat doesn't mind nearly as much as I do or he would get away. I am going to get Sophie another hav as soon as I find the right one. I've applied to hav rescue but nothing yet. I may get a puppy after Christmas. She must have a very playful one because she will wear it out.


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## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

Many of you saw the Sex in the City movie with the little yorkie that humped everything. How did they get that little dog to hump on demand?


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

davetgabby said:


> good stuff Karen. The first thing to understand is chaining. Chaining occurs where one behaviour that is cued causes at least one following behaviour to be carried out. This occurs when two behaviours have only one antecedent and one reward. A common example is the dog who jumps up and is taught to sit to get reward; dog jumps up, sits and then gets attention. Not all dogs are great at chaining.
> You can avoid chaining with most dogs by getting the timing right.Generally just over three seconds between reward and cue will make it more difficult for most dogs to learn the connection between the chained behaviours. But, if you are concerned about the dog chaining how often is this combination of behaviours occurring?
> 'Leave it' should mean, if it is meant to be used in such contexts, stop what you are doing and come to me. Right now it seems that that cue, to the dog, means stop and get a treat and go back to what you were doing.
> Also, with a behaviour such as humping, what is the context in which this happened? Sometimes, in play this can be ok and sometimes it can be inappropriate and a sign that the dog is over aroused and that the play is too much.
> ...


that's a interesting point Dave. What happened with Charley is exactly what you said - humping - leave it - reward. But then he started to hump to get the reward. actually, he'd hump anmd as he was doing it he was looking at me - as if waiting for the leave it and then the reward.

Haven't been with other dogs last several days. Just so hot no one has been out for very long.

But when we do, I will do the leave it - recall - manners and then allow to play again. in other words, no reward after the leave it??? Will he be motivated to stop and do all that just to play again?


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

SOPHIES-MOM said:


> Many of you saw the Sex in the City movie with the little yorkie that humped everything. How did they get that little dog to hump on demand?


hump on demand? that's funny!!


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

davetgabby said:


> good stuff Karen. The first thing to understand is chaining. Chaining occurs where one behaviour that is cued causes at least one following behaviour to be carried out. This occurs when two behaviours have only one antecedent and one reward. A common example is the dog who jumps up and is taught to sit to get reward; dog jumps up, sits and then gets attention. Not all dogs are great at chaining.
> You can avoid chaining with most dogs by getting the timing right.Generally just over three seconds between reward and cue will make it more difficult for most dogs to learn the connection between the chained behaviours. But, if you are concerned about the dog chaining how often is this combination of behaviours occurring?
> 'Leave it' should mean, if it is meant to be used in such contexts, stop what you are doing and come to me. Right now it seems that that cue, to the dog, means stop and get a treat and go back to what you were doing.
> Also, with a behaviour such as humping, what is the context in which this happened? Sometimes, in play this can be ok and sometimes it can be inappropriate and a sign that the dog is over aroused and that the play is too much.
> ...


gee. i responded earlier and somehow my response is not here. anyway, this is what I said. I do believe that when I said leave it to charley when mounting he began to connect mounting with getting a reward and therefore mounted. as a matter of fact, after a mounts, leave it, reward, he would mount, look at me and wait for the leave it and then get reward.

it felt like uh-oh, this isn't going to work.

so I like the idea of mount, leave it, recall, manners etc and then play again as the reward. in other words, no reward after leave it???

only thing is - will leave it, recall, manners and then play be enough reward for him to stop the mounting? is the chain too long?

I will often ask for a few behaviors before Charley gets something - for example, do x, then y, then z and then I throw the ball. Works great. he loves it.

But, leave it, recall, manners (by the way, what does manners include?) all while Charley's doggie friends are around and playing with each other - hmmm..I do wonder.

have I got it right?


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

this is weird. I just replied again and then I saw my two previous replies just appear. sorry for being repetitious. 

also, Dave you mentioned - is the dog overaroused? how do I know? Charley just seems very sexual if you ask me. I think it's those Starborn genes but he's just got a lot of testerone. I actually wondered after he was fixed - thought maybe the doctor missed something. Maybe I should ask the doctor? And it's funny, but Charley never lifts his leg. He's a squatter. (My female dog Molly always lifted her leg). Sorry I'm off the topic here.


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

*Mounting monster*



Charleysmom said:


> this is weird. I just replied again and then I saw my two previous replies just appear. sorry for being repetitious.
> 
> also, Dave you mentioned - is the dog overaroused? how do I know? Charley just seems very sexual if you ask me. I think it's those Starborn genes but he's just got a lot of testerone. I actually wondered after he was fixed - thought maybe the doctor missed something. Maybe I should ask the doctor? And it's funny, but Charley never lifts his leg. He's a squatter. (My female dog Molly always lifted her leg). Sorry I'm off the topic here.


This is a little off subject, but I couldn't resist. Tyler is not a Starborn dog but does have the same sire as Twinkle (Fievel) and, prior to his old age, had always been a mounter and a marker. I, too, always said that the vet didn't get everything when he was neutered. However, he always lifted his leg, and very, very high I might add, but these past few months has decided to alternate with squatting.

Sorry to have butted in, but your comments about Starborn genes and the vet who didn't get it all really hit home. Good luck with your training.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> that's a interesting point Dave. What happened with Charley is exactly what you said - humping - leave it - reward. But then he started to hump to get the reward. actually, he'd hump anmd as he was doing it he was looking at me - as if waiting for the leave it and then the reward.
> 
> Haven't been with other dogs last several days. Just so hot no one has been out for very long.
> 
> But when we do, I will do the leave it - recall - manners and then allow to play again. in other words, no reward after the leave it??? Will he be motivated to stop and do all that just to play again?


Remember to be working on the "Leave it" a LOT in other contexts, with LOTS of rewards just for that part. That way he'll still maintain that behavior, even if you ask him to do a couple of other things after leaving off humping. I didn't realize that he was purposely going back to humping JUST to get you to say "Leave it" again.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> gee. i responded earlier and somehow my response is not here. anyway, this is what I said. I do believe that when I said leave it to charley when mounting he began to connect mounting with getting a reward and therefore mounted. as a matter of fact, after a mounts, leave it, reward, he would mount, look at me and wait for the leave it and then get reward.
> 
> it felt like uh-oh, this isn't going to work.
> 
> ...


Even if there were no humping involved,calling him away from play, asking him to do a couple of easy behaviors, then rewarding him, either with a treat and/or allowing him to go play again is EXCELLENT recall practice. The "manners" work could be a couple of "puppy push-ups", a few hand touches (which many dogs find rewarding in themselves) or if he knows how to go through your legs, a few turns through your legs. (also rewarding in itself). Then release him to "Go Play" again.

As I said in response to the other post (that you couldn't see, so I'm not sure you can see my response) practice ALL these things frequently, in other settings, where there is no opportunity for humping too. He should willingly "Leave it" no matter what it is. (easier said than done... I will admit that Kodi found a dead neighbor's chicken in our yard over the weekend, and "Leave it" alone was not enough for the "mighty hunter"... I had to use bribery with a piece of dried duck to get him off it! )


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> this is weird. I just replied again and then I saw my two previous replies just appear. sorry for being repetitious.
> 
> also, Dave you mentioned - is the dog overaroused? how do I know? Charley just seems very sexual if you ask me. I think it's those Starborn genes but he's just got a lot of testerone. I actually wondered after he was fixed - thought maybe the doctor missed something. Maybe I should ask the doctor? And it's funny, but Charley never lifts his leg. He's a squatter. (My female dog Molly always lifted her leg). Sorry I'm off the topic here.


Kodi was 3 before he lifted his leg, and he STILL doesn't lift his leg unless he wants to mark. (usually where lots of other dogs have been) Otherwise, to just pee, he just stands like a little horse, stretches out and goes.

As far as mounting is concerned, he did a lot of mounting THINGS when he was over-excited as a youngster. (6-18 months was the worst) Now he rarely does it unless he's getting overly "lovey" with one of his donut beds. I don't think he has ever mounted another dog though.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

generally over aroused behavior is something you "hav" to be the judge of. You know his levels best . Do some calming exercises before you know what's coming up. Chances are , if he not paying attention to your calming cues ,he's over aroused . Back away from the situation until he can approach relatively calm. I'm the opposite , I tell Molly to hump her duck. I cheer on the sidelines lol. Talking about cueing "hump"., Jean Donaldson took a lot of flack for doing a video ,teaching Buffy to hump her leg on command. People are sometimes too Puritanical. JMO


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Rosie immediately humped Sherron's puppy. Rosie is not a humper either. I am one of those puritanical ones that won't tolerate humping. I didn't treat Rosie or any of the other things like "time out". (what dog knows what time out really means?) I just used my stern voice and said "STOP". End of the behavior. My son is a deacon in his church and has two little girls. He was so embarrassed at Rosie's humping. Course the children wanted to know what Rosie was trying to do. They are way to young to explain the sexual thing. Humping is not a behavior I am going to put up with a dog or child. My old protection dog humped an employee once. The employee knocked him off of his leg and Axel never humped another thing in his long life.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

you're right in having your own view , thank God there are people like you to keep guys like me in line. Love ya Lucile, where hav you been?


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah where would all of you be without my dissenting voice? I have had a lot of health issues this year and trying to keep the company books at home. Grandkids staying over and one painting the house. Also trying to exercise every day to get my strength back. I do read the post, just no energy to reply. Getting better though.


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

sandypaws said:


> This is a little off subject, but I couldn't resist. Tyler is not a Starborn dog but does have the same sire as Twinkle (Fievel) and, prior to his old age, had always been a mounter and a marker. I, too, always said that the vet didn't get everything when he was neutered. However, he always lifted his leg, and very, very high I might add, but these past few months has decided to alternate with squatting.
> 
> Sorry to have butted in, but your comments about Starborn genes and the vet who didn't get it all really hit home. Good luck with your training.


Definitely Starborn genes. Maccabee has rough sex with his favorite bed. As soon as we enter Scott's house, he looks for the bed and then mounts it. Leave him with any bolster bed and he turns it into his girlfriend.

FWIW, Maccabee does lift his leg most of the time.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hope to see you more, soon., Lucile. Hugs


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

good to know that the mounting is in the genes. but charley doesn't have a surrogate! my last dog Molly seemed to be a humper from the start and so I supplied her with a stuffed sex toy (I called it her man) that she used most of her life. she never humped dogs but just her toy which didn't bother me. 
I wish I could transfer Charley's affection to a toy or donut bed. His friends were over yesterday and he was at it again. He humped, I said leave it, pulled him off and did some doggy pushups and then return to play. I hope this works in the long run. 
I'm feeling a bit discouraged. I've been doing the leave it but next time he just does it again.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Charleysmom said:


> good to know that the mounting is in the genes. but charley doesn't have a surrogate! my last dog Molly seemed to be a humper from the start and so I supplied her with a stuffed sex toy (I called it her man) that she used most of her life. she never humped dogs but just her toy which didn't bother me.
> I wish I could transfer Charley's affection to a toy or donut bed. His friends were over yesterday and he was at it again. He humped, I said leave it, pulled him off and did some doggy pushups and then return to play. I hope this works in the long run.
> I'm feeling a bit discouraged. I've been doing the leave it but next time he just does it again.


I really think that a big part of it is that his arousal level just gets too high when he's in a "play date" situation. With consistency on your part, and just maturity on his part, I think you will see it tail off. But it WON'T be a quick fix, because it's his reaction to the overstimulation of the whole situation.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

krandall said:


> I really think that a big part of it is that his arousal level just gets too high when he's in a "play date" situation. With consistency on your part, and just maturity on his part, I think you will see it tail off. But it WON'T be a quick fix, because it's his reaction to the overstimulation of the whole situation.


I sure hope you are correct. We'll continue with the training and see what happens. I'll keep you posted.


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

Maccabee and his bed/girlfriend/sex toy


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Leo has his bear friend. Other than their time, he has learned to curtail the impulse.


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

HannahBearsMom said:


> Maccabee and his bed/girlfriend/sex toy


wow! you weren't kidding. He's definitely into his girlfriend!


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## Charleysmom (Dec 6, 2011)

Pucks104 said:


> Leo has his bear friend. Other than their time, he has learned to curtail the impulse.


maybe I should get Charley a "girlfriend."


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