# Puppy colour change



## kashcheema (Apr 11, 2020)

Hi all,

Posting on behalf of my sister who's turn has come up on her waiting list for a havanese pup. Her kids wanted a light coloured pup and the breeder has sent her a photo of her pup. The pup is only 2 days old. The breeder has said that this little pup will get paler/lighter in time. My question is how does she know this and is this true? A picture of the little monster is attached.

Thanks










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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

This is a picture of the litter Molly came from as well as two of the brown puppies when they were older. All of the puppies that are brown were sables and they did lighten significantly to a cream color with hints of black and brown.


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## kashcheema (Apr 11, 2020)

Thank you Molly. How does one know if a pup will be a sable and lighten? The breeder has said to my sister that the pup will. But I don’t know if she is just trying to make a sell. 


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

kashcheema said:


> Thank you Molly. How does one know if a pup will be a sable and lighten? The breeder has said to my sister that the pup will. But I don't know if she is just trying to make a sell.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe before ruling out a darker pup, your sister should look at all the threads where folks with light colored pups are trying desperately to eliminate tear stains and are having to use whitening shampoos to get their light colored pup to look pristeen. There are advantages to a darker pup. Also, does color really matter that much? I would be focused on getting a healthy pup with a good personality.


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## kashcheema (Apr 11, 2020)

mudpuppymama said:


> Maybe before ruling out a darker pup, your sister should look at all the threads where folks with light colored pups are trying desperately to eliminate tear stains and are having to use whitening shampoos to get their light colored pup to look pristeen. There are advantages to a darker pup. Also, does color really matter that much? I would be focused on getting a healthy pup with a good personality.


I mentioned the tear stains to her. The pup is and will be healthy. Having it light is an added bonus for her kids I guess. As per my previous post, how could a breeder tell if a pup will get lighter? She's asked the breeder and the breeder said the pup just will get lighter 

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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

kashcheema said:


> Thank you Molly. How does one know if a pup will be a sable and lighten? The breeder has said to my sister that the pup will. But I don't know if she is just trying to make a sell.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here is a great website that goes through all the different colors in the Havanese.
https://havaneseabc.com/rainbow_main.html


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

You have no idea how big the question you are asking really is  I would send your sister to the Havanese Colors of the Rainbow site! 
https://havaneseabc.com/rainbow.html

Hopefully those more experienced with identifying coat colors will weigh in, but I know breeders can. Havanese colors are so complicated and confusing, and they are experts, particularly in their own lines. My breeder was right on about the possible changes we would see in my puppy. She said he would probably lighten but that he would likely hold a lot of his color, which is exactly true. I didn't completely realize what she meant until recently!

However, Havanese are famous for extreme color change. As to whether or not the breeder is trying to make a sale, your sister would have to rely on her research vetting the breeder and her relationship with the breeder. If your sister is wondering if the might be getting scammed, she may want to consider if she has done her due diligence, and if she should further cultivate that relationship, or if there are other things that are leading her to question the integrity of the breeder, and if she should find someone else. Remember it's not over when she brings the puppy home, she should be able to call the breeder and ask questions in the future. She needs to be able to trust the answers to those questions down the line.

The other thing to really consider is whether or not her color preferences might be impacting her perception of the situation. I think it's okay to hope for a certain color, but cautiously. It truly is one of the least important factors in bringing home a puppy. Especially because Havanese colors change so dramatically, so she could bring home a puppy that looks exactly like her dream puppy and he could completely change colors! Good breeders will never sell on color alone, and for that reason some good breeders will push back on color preferences, or not sell to someone attached to certain colors, because they sometimes see it as a red flag. She might be sensing some resistance from the breeder that she is misinterpreting. On the other hand, if the breeder is matching her based on the color of this puppy alone, and not giving other reasons why they are a good match, that is definitely a sign (to me) to be very wary of the breeder. Especially if it is very soon after the puppies have been born. I've heard many stories of temperament testing matching what the breeder already knows, so I could see a breeder giving an indication as to how they will likely match their litters earlier, but I think color is the last factor most consider.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

This page explains a bit about the changes in sable coats, but it's just one example. The breeder might know the parents carry slivering genes, etc.

https://havaneseabc.com/pts1.html


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

kashcheema said:


> I mentioned the tear stains to her. The pup is and will be healthy. Having it light is an added bonus for her kids I guess. As per my previous post, how could a breeder tell if a pup will get lighter? She's asked the breeder and the breeder said the pup just will get lighter
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry I guess I have seen too much prejudice against dark colors and it bothers me. Perhaps now is the time to give the kiddos a lesson in what is really important. Also, your sister is the one who is going to be stuck keeping the dog clean so I would think her opinion is more important.


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## kashcheema (Apr 11, 2020)

Hi all thanks for the advice. This is an open forum and I respect all opinions. I think light coloured pups have a tendency to show their features more easily, I don’t know. 

The breeder did get back to her and said the pup will become a golden sable. Unsure what colour a golden sable is to be honest 


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## kashcheema (Apr 11, 2020)

Can anyone else help on what a golden sable is? Thanks folks. 


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

I actually wanted a darker colored dog as I did not want to deal with tear and beard staining. As you can see from Willow's picture, I did not get a darker dog as that was not what was most important to me. And Willow does have beard staining and a little tear staining. It's not a big deal to me as she is my buddy. I think the photo of the little monster is a beautiful color and will probably also end up a beautiful color. Do check out the colors of the rainbow links others have posted.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

*Here's our "dark" baby*

I echo what's been said and included a pic of Jodie as a puppy to compare to the picture on my ticker below. I didn't want her to get lighter but now my connection with her is far more intense than any color preference. If color is the predominant preference it could be an issue with the Havanese breed. Other than that, they are fantastic family members!


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## kashcheema (Apr 11, 2020)

Thank you all. I have learnt a lot from this forum in the last year and have sat down with my sister yesterday and showed her the colours of the rainbow website. I explained that colour preference should not be the driving factor behind choosing a pup for you nor the breeder. The breeder has video called her to look at her living arrangements and garden, so I’m happy that the breeder is taking into account other important factors too. The pup has also somewhat lightened 3 days after birth, guess he is a sable. 


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

kashcheema said:


> Thank you all. I have learnt a lot from this forum in the last year and have sat down with my sister yesterday and showed her the colours of the rainbow website. I explained that colour preference should not be the driving factor behind choosing a pup for you nor the breeder. The breeder has video called her to look at her living arrangements and garden, so I'm happy that the breeder is taking into account other important factors too. The pup has also somewhat lightened 3 days after birth, guess he is a sable.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That has nothing to do with change in hair color. That only has to do with getting dry.


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## kashcheema (Apr 11, 2020)

krandall said:


> That has nothing to do with change in hair color. That only has to do with getting dry.


Haha probably Karen! 

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## kashcheema (Apr 11, 2020)

My sis just sent me this. This is his colour now. He's gotten lighter and you can see he has a darker mask 

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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

What a sweet picture!


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## kashcheema (Apr 11, 2020)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> What a sweet picture!


It's lovely right! 

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## Frank (May 18, 2010)

Our breeder (Highborn) gave up on trying to determine what color the adult dog would be. Lani started out with white with dark brown markings and ended up white with cream colored markings.


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## pvlahos (Jan 2, 2020)

I wanted to show how much our little Havanese has changed. He is a chocolate Havanese. When we got him he was a very dark brown/almost black with white spots. Now the brown/black has faded quite a bit to a medium/light brown. Is this considered sable? Not sure. Anyway, as others have said Havanese colors can change quite a bit and while the breeder may have a pretty good idea through lots of experience, they shouldn't guarantee it. We wanted a spotted puppy but we knew when we got him that he could change quite a bit over time (even going full white). It's a chance we were willing to take.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Our breeder said the same thing. Wow a short haired Havanese, that’s quite a find! It’s fun to see someone else who has 3 Havanese besides Karen and me, I also like your proverb😋


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## kashcheema (Apr 11, 2020)

pvlahos said:


> I wanted to show how much our little Havanese has changed. He is a chocolate Havanese. When we got him he was a very dark brown/almost black with white spots. Now the brown/black has faded quite a bit to a medium/light brown. Is this considered sable? Not sure. Anyway, as others have said Havanese colors can change quite a bit and while the breeder may have a pretty good idea through lots of experience, they shouldn't guarantee it. We wanted a spotted puppy but we knew when we got him that he could change quite a bit over time (even going full white). It's a chance we were willing to take.


Your little one looks like a cute little old man after his cut! 

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