# Lovelink Havanese references?



## nupe588 (Dec 15, 2008)

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum and I'm curious if anyone has any experience with Lovelink Havanese. I've put down a deposit for a puppy that is scheduled to come soon. Last night I started worrying about the transaction because she wants the money first before shipping the puppy. I'm probably being paranoid, but I wanted to know if anyone else has any positive or negative experiences with them.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

nupe588, welcome to the Forum. You'll find lots of great advice here.
I just checked their website out and wasn't able to find any information about the health testings this breeder does? I tried to search for 'LL Chocolate Huckleberry' and 'lovelink' on www.offa.org where responsible breeders normally post health testing results and no dog was found. Also, most reputable breeders don't ship their dogs, they're either picked up by the owner or are flown in by the breeder/close contacts. 
By health testings I mean CERFF, patella, hips, bile acids, etc. not just taking them to the Vet and get a routine check-up. I'm sure one of our breeders on the forum will chime in and give you more info.
Stick around please, there's lots to learn here!!!
Just my 2 cents.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I guess we were checking and the same time. I didn't see any mention of health testing at all. No mention of pedigree, either. The pups are cute, so I can understand how you couldn't resist them.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

nupe588 said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to the forum and I'm curious if anyone has any experience with Lovelink Havanese. I've put down a deposit for a puppy that is scheduled to come soon. Last night I started worrying about the transaction because she wants the money first before shipping the puppy. I'm probably being paranoid, but I wanted to know if anyone else has any positive or negative experiences with them.


I've never heard of the breeder but I want to reassure you that breeders (to the best of my knowledge and definitely my experience) always want to get paid before shipping the puppy. Otherwise you have a puppy and they might or might not get paid. Also my experience is different than Maryam's in that both my boys were shipped to me without incident and their breeder does it all the time and has for many years.

I'll take a look at the site to see about testing, etc. Welcome to the group.


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## nupe588 (Dec 15, 2008)

pjewel said:


> I've never heard of the breeder but I want to reassure you that breeders (to the best of my knowledge and definitely my experience) always want to get paid before shipping the puppy. Otherwise you have a puppy and they might or might not get paid. Also my experience is different than Maryam's in that both my boys were shipped to me without incident and their breeder does it all the time and has for many years.
> 
> I'll take a look at the site to see about testing, etc. Welcome to the group.


Thanks! That answers question number one. Has anyone had any issues with the quality of puppies? I understand most breeders will register via the previously mentioned site, but if they didn't what is the downside for us? I know, I'm asking these questions too late...the kids have already fallen in love with the puppy.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

I took a look at the website and there isn't any information on health testing her breeding stock, no information that would lead me to believe her dogs are being shown ie: that they have proven themselves to be suitable breeding stock. The pups are cute, but I would be too nerv ous to deal with her. There are red flags for me. A cute pup is nice, but ultimately they're only puppies such a short time and the health of the dog is my bigger concern. Have you known the breeder long?


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

Welcome to the forum:wave:

Like the others I too went to their web site and found no information about their dogs, I went onto OFA's web site and found no information on their dogs for health testing and I also went and looked on the Havanese Gallery and their dogs are not on there either. It also appears that they do not show their dogs either, the only thing I see is they have done quite a bit of breeding. I would defiantly find out if they do in fact do any health testing or not on there dogs. If not I would also ask what their guarantee is on their puppy if it was to get sick. I would hope that they are not selling these puppies for a premium price if they are not going to back it up. A reputable breeder will always stand behind their dogs that they have produced.

And to answer your question about being paid in full, yes it is a normal process that the breeder is paid in full before the puppy leaves the breeders home.

Again welcome to the forum, there is a wealth of information here and a lot of good people, I am sure some of the other breeders on here will also chime in.


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## nupe588 (Dec 15, 2008)

good buddy said:


> I took a look at the website and there isn't any information on health testing her breeding stock, no information that would lead me to believe her dogs are being shown ie: that they have proven themselves to be suitable breeding stock. The pups are cute, but I would be too nerv ous to deal with her. There are red flags for me. A cute pup is nice, but ultimately they're only puppies such a short time and the health of the dog is my bigger concern. Have you known the breeder long?


I have not known her long. I have no plans to show the dog, but I may breed in the future. I do have a contract that allows me to get the puppy tested here when it arrives and if we have problems it can be returned.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

nupe588, am I understanding it right that you are thinking about possibly breeding a dog whose parents apparently haven't had any of the health testings done?!?


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## nupe588 (Dec 15, 2008)

When you put it that way, it makes me feel kinda ill....

OK, best case scenario: I get the puppy, get it tested locally and everything turns out ok. 

Worst case: test results are not to our liking and we return the dog. Am I being overly simplistic and missing something? PLEASE educate me.


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

nupe588 said:


> I do have a contract that allows me to get the puppy tested here when it arrives and if we have problems it can be returned.


That is great, except does that contract allow for when she is of age for her test? Under a year old the puppy can have their BAER test for hearing and their CERF for their eyes, then at the age of one year they then can have their Cardiac and Patella's done and then at the age of two is when their Hips and their elbows can be done done.

I think I would be very careful and think hard of wanting to breed a dog later on that the parents have had no heath testing completed on themselves. That could be opening a huge can of worms, not to mention, why would you want to do that when there could be a possibility of your future puppies being born with some genetic defect. JMHO


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Are these dogs registered with AKC? As for breeding, to be a responsible breeder it takes a lot more than getting two cute dogs together. The breeders here can tell you that breeding is done for the love and betterment of the breed, not to make money. I assume then the breeder has given you a contract with breeding rights? That would probably be another red flag. 

I know it's so hard when the puppies are so cute, but I must be honest, I have some concerns.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

nupe588, getting the puppy tested locally as you say, would mean that you will have to get all of the health testings done that are recommended before breeding a dog, which isn't before the age of 2 (?) anyway. Even then, not knowing what is really 'inside' that young dog due to lack of its parents health history, is a great risk. Let alone the fact that you'd have to find a health tested stud with the suitable characteristics. 
'Worst case': the dog will (God forbid) develop health problems and you really think you'll be able to give it back once your entire family falls in love with it? Also it may not develop any problems until 2 years of age or later. What then?
Please don't get me wrong, ANY puppy can potentially have health issues. Choosing a pup from a responsible breeder however will definitely decrease the risks, because breeding responsibly is literally a science where people research, health test, etc. 
You may get a less expensive cute pup from un-tested parents, but the odds are that you may end up paying more for upcoming health issues in the long run. 
I believe almost ALL puppies are adorable, it's meant to be that way. I would either get a purebred dog from a reputable breeder or adopt a dog from Havanese Rescue.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

nupe588 said:


> Thanks! That answers question number one. Has anyone had any issues with the quality of puppies? I understand most breeders will register via the previously mentioned site, but if they didn't what is the downside for us? I know, I'm asking these questions too late...the kids have already fallen in love with the puppy.


It's not too late.

Please read this thread: http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=7098

There are plenty of threads here that talk about the regrets folks have had, including myself, with getting a dog from a less than reputable/responsible breeder.

Use your instincts and trust them.

Welcome to the forum.


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## nupe588 (Dec 15, 2008)

CacheHavs said:


> That is great, except does that contract allow for when she is of age for her test? Under a year old the puppy can have their BAER test for hearing and their CERF for their eyes, then at the age of one year they then can have their Cardiac and Patella's done and then at the age of two is when their Hips and their elbows can be done done.
> 
> I think I would be very careful and think hard of wanting to breed a dog later on that the parents have had no heath testing completed on themselves. That could be opening a huge can of worms, not to mention, why would you want to do that when there could be a possibility of your future puppies being born with some genetic defect. JMHO


These are great points to consider. If our puppy comes back from testing without any problems, should've that alleviate genetic concern issues..(nope, I just answered my own question...it could skip a generation).

New question: How do you suggest I bring up this line of questions to the breeder? My newfound research team has armed me with genetic concerns and she isn't listed on this offa.org site.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

nupe588, I honestly appreciate, that you 'inhale' the great information given to you in this thread without getting mad about our concerns. We love this breed and just want to help educate as many people as possible! 
The fact that you couldn't find any information on the offa.org website is a red flag it itself. I would contact the breeder and ask what kind of health testings are done on the parents, if she can provide you their numbers for offa, what her guarantees are, etc.


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## nupe588 (Dec 15, 2008)

maryam187 said:


> nupe588, I honestly appreciate, that you 'inhale' the great information given to you in this thread without getting mad about our concerns. We love this breed and just want to help educate as many people as possible!
> The fact that you couldn't find any information on the offa.org website is a red flag it itself. I would contact the breeder and ask what kind of health testings are done on the parents, if she can provide you their numbers for offa, what her guarantees are, etc.


Guys, THANK YOU!!! I am not getting mad at all, I'm worried. Sorry if I came off as mad. This is all very good information for me to digest and deal with before the puppy arrives. I like the suggestion to ask for the offa numbers.

I really need to address these issues with the breeder. Can you suggest more questions for me to ask? I feel sick....


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

nupe588, I'm sorry, I may have mis-written my statement. I meant it is great that you don't seem to get mad at all about our suggestions. You didn't come off as mad, that was my point 
I totally understand that you feel sick, but you came to the right place! Where do you live? I will try to come up with important questions to ask, hoping that others will chime in soon...


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Here's a link to Kimberly's (Havtahava) website. She is one of many great breeders here on the forum. The information stated there will help you get started until others help out.
http://www.havtahava.com/index_files/buyerbeware.htm


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

nupe588 said:


> New question: How do you suggest I bring up this line of questions to the breeder? My newfound research team has armed me with genetic concerns and she isn't listed on this offa.org site.


I would simply ask her what health test she has performed on her dogs and ask her for their OFA#'s if she says that she has had them tested but has not sent them in I would ask her why they have not been sent in and ask to see the forms for the results of the test. If she has not sent them in though, be very cautious as I have known some breeders in the past who use to only have one dog tested and then do a lot of copying and making new forms to appear that their other dogs were tested too when in fact they were not.

I would also ask her for copies of the parents pedigrees. IF you have the pedigree, often a lot of times you can do some research on the ancestors and if any of them were ever health tested.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

My experience has been when a breeder does not do health testing and you, as a consumer ask about it, they tend to get defensive. I came very close to getting the cutest little girl "Belle" from a breeder who raised red flags all over the place. Ultimately I decided not to go that route, but I so easily could have. The great people here gave me questions to ask too, but this breeder told me she didn't need to test because her dogs were all healthy and besides, if she did, she'd have no time for anything else. 

It took about eight months after that for me to get my first little boy Milo.


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## nupe588 (Dec 15, 2008)

I'm afraid to say where we live, she might be on this site...

How about this clue.... I really hate the jayhawks (but this hatred started April 7th)


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Here are a couple of links from the havanese club website:

http://www.havaneseclubofamerica.org/hcapupclass.html

http://www.havaneseclubofamerica.org/index.php/education/puppy-buyers/60-puppy-buyers

http://www.havaneseclubofamerica.org/index.php/breeder-ref


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Welcome to the forum and sorry your first experience was bad news. How did you hear about the breeder?

It looks like this breeder was discussed last year and it was discussed she doesn't health test. http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=2521

Welcome to the forum though 
Amanda


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

nupe588 said:


> Thanks! That answers question number one. Has anyone had any issues with the quality of puppies? I understand most breeders will register via the previously mentioned site, but if they didn't what is the downside for us? I know, I'm asking these questions too late...the kids have already fallen in love with the puppy.


I don't know where you or the breeder lives but shipping a puppy with these kinds of temperatures is very dangerous. I know some airlines won't transport animals if it is under a certain temp. I would not ever ship a puppy. NEVER. Think of it from their perspective.... They are taken away from the only place they have known. Put into a carrier by themselves which is probably the first time they have been alone. Just to be put into a very loud and cold, dark place. Not an ideal scenario for a younger dog definately a stressful event for a young puppy. I as a breeder would want to meet my prospective puppy owner also. I can't imagine not getting to know the people by meeting them first.


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

nupe588 said:


> When you put it that way, it makes me feel kinda ill....
> 
> OK, best case scenario: I get the puppy, get it tested locally and everything turns out ok.
> 
> Worst case: test results are not to our liking and we return the dog. Am I being overly simplistic and missing something? PLEASE educate me.


Genetics from three generations back can come into play. So say that your dog passes all of her health tests but then you have to consider the fact that her parents or grandparents may have a genetic problem you have no idea about. It will eventually raise its ugly head in one of the puppies YOU produce. Do you want to pass that on to a unsuspecting family. Not only that but do you know the Havanese standard? How tall they should be, what shape their eyes are, what degree of shoulder layback. If you can't answer any of these questions honestly you should not even be considering breeding. It is a huge responsibility to do it right. Do you want to be part of the downfall of this breed or a savior? Do your homework, get a mentor and learn all about the breed before leaping into something you know nothing about. Sorry if I seem harsh but I am speaking from my heart.


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Nupe--welcome to this forum. You have gotten some good advice. Your breeder should be glad that you are asking appropriate questions. I am curious about a couple things:
1. How did you find this breeder?
2. Does she show her dogs?
3. Did she ask you a lot of questions about how you are going to raise her? Whether you have a fenced yard? Whether you have young children? 
4. Would she be willing to return your deposit if you decided this is not the right dog for you?
5. Did she tell you that she wanted you to have the dog neutered or spayed at a certain age?
6. Did she say that the dogs were AKC registered?


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## imamurph (Apr 15, 2008)

Hi..

Actually I bought both of my Hav's from Lovelink and they are awesome in everyway.
When I first bought Sophie (who will be 6 in March) I was looking for what I thought I knew as "pet" not "show" quality. I did not know what I know now, but she said up front that she did not health test (she also doesn't show) I can't say that this prevented me from going back to get my second one (whom we love to death!)

My friend also bought two Hav's from Lovelink. Her first developed IBS over the period of about a year and a half. Still, she loved the Hav so much, she went back and bought a second one who has no problems what so ever.

I think if I were to buy a third, I would look for someone who did health testing just 
because of everything I have heard and learned as part of this forum. It's an added measure of reasurrance.


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## nupe588 (Dec 15, 2008)

Cheryl said:


> Nupe--welcome to this forum. You have gotten some good advice. Your breeder should be glad that you are asking appropriate questions. I am curious about a couple things:
> 1. How did you find this breeder? _Internet_
> 2. Does she show her dogs? _No, I don't recall her saying she did._
> 3. Did she ask you a lot of questions about how you are going to raise her? Whether you have a fenced yard? Whether you have young children? _She did ask about these issues specifically. We have two kids, 11 and 7._4. Would she be willing to return your deposit if you decided this is not the right dog for you? _This might get answered real soon, the real question is "will my wife and kids keep me?"_
> ...


 _I'm racking my brain and I honestly can't recall asking this question. I assumed they were, now I really need to address this._


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## imamurph (Apr 15, 2008)

Nupe...

What I know is:

She doesn't show

Not all are AKC registered. Sophie and Gabe are registered through the Universal Kennel Club International. Pedigree is of Hungarian origin

I found her listed in the newspaper

She did require that they be spayed/neutered with in the year and that they were not to be bred.

She did ask about my environment/family/yard

All of her Havs were well groomed and had there own kennels


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## nupe588 (Dec 15, 2008)

imamurph said:


> Nupe...
> 
> What I know is:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I think the easy answer is to breed for family only should we decide to breed. Are Sophie and Gabe your puppies or your puppies parents? My puppy's parents are Sable and LL chocolate rudy red.

So is your puppy AKC registered?


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## imamurph (Apr 15, 2008)

Nupe..I believe she has it in the contract that buyers are not to breed, period...
Does your contract not state that? 

Sophie parents are Thea and Fredi. Gabe's are Thea and Boaz (who I believe is AKC registered)

If you are planning on breeding.. I would really strongly urge you to go with someone who health tests. 

I'm no expert, but there are alot on this forum who are, so I would take their full advice..:biggrin1:


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

nupe588 said:


> I have not known her long. I have no plans to show the dog, but I may breed in the future. I do have a contract that allows me to get the puppy tested here when it arrives and if we have problems it can be returned.


What is the reason you want to breed her? Like Heather pointed out, most of the testing can't be done until she is over a year old.

As for what to ask the breeder, there is a list of good questions both on the HCA web site and my own personal web site. How to ask the breeder, just be blunt. If she can't answer them, then I would walk away.


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## PepperToast (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi Nupe588,

I agree about having to pay in full for a puppy before it will ship. That is standard.

Here are some pros:

It seems as though you had to sign a contract. Hopefully this implies that she will stand behind the health of her dogs and that she cares about where her dogs go.

In the photos on her website all the dogs looked clean, the areas in the background looked clean and they were taken in all different parts of the house ( ie kitchen, bed, couch, at a mirror). This means they most likely are house raised and not kennel or mill puppies.

She posts her address on her website. She is not trying to 'hide' her location.

None of her pups looked freaked out in the photos. They seem like they are comfortable in their surroundings and have been exposed to the things around them. 

Cons: No proof of health testing. This will be especially important to you if you want to breed. Breeding dogs who may have/pass on disease or defect is devastating to the breeder (if they are good) and the new owner. It spells heartbreak all around. I suppose you could do all the appropriate health testing yourself but... breeding a dog after generations of health testing is the best way to protect the breed.

As far as having to show a dog to prove it's worthiness...I understand the reasons behind this. I know that there are show people out there who do TREMENDOUS good for a breed. I wanted to show Walter. He is absolutely wonderful. My very experienced groomer/show person (different breed) begged me to show him but...I just could not keep him in a long coat due to where he exercises. It was unfortunate that for that reason alone, it was not possible. 

Regardless, you on the right track to trying to do what is best for the havanese breed; You joined this forum and are asking great questions.

All the best,

Meeka


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I think your first decision would be if you even want to get a puppy from this breeder who doesn't health test.

I personally think it would be a lot easier to explain to your family children included why it is important to research the breed, do your homework for adding a new addition for the next 15 years than explain why the puppy they have lived with for a year is going back to the breeder because her patellas are blown and her parents weren't health tested. I don't mean to be harsh but there is no reason that you should want to breed a dog from this breeder. There are tons of Havanese already in rescue and with health problems that is why it is so important to health test, study lines, and really know the dog you are planning to breed.

Also, I wouldn't trust some photos on a website for buying a dog online. Here is a small article on why not to buy a puppy online.
http://www.caps-web.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=114&Itemid=164


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

One reason to be especially concerned about health issues is this breed is coming from a fairly small gene pool. That increases the odds of genetic problems. The most common genetic problems in this breed are luxating patellas (kneecaps), cataracts, (eye probs.), hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, Legg-calve-perthes, just to name a few! They can cause heartache for the owner and expensive vet bills in your future. If you then decide to breed this dog, you can pass on genetic problems to the pups so even if they only are meant for family members you could be breeding heartache for your family. You also take a risk with your female as labor is not an easy thing and I _think_ you are inexperienced as a breeder. (my apologies if this is not true)


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

I'm not saying it's a good idea, and perhaps I was just very lucky, but I bought both my puppies online, sight unseen, but with many photos emailed in advance and many conversations with the breeders. They did both health-test and are not puppy mills. One helped found the N. Cal. Havanese Club. I had very strong feelings both times about each being the right puppy for us, and I just cannot explain why, since I'd viewed many puppy pix. And I couldn't be happier with my decision.

But I do understand the reasons why it could be a very bad idea, with disastrous results for the uneducated, unsuspecting buyer. And it is an easy medium for the unscrupulous breeder to exploit.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

nupe, any news?


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## imamurph (Apr 15, 2008)

Nupe..Do you have any photos of your baby??? She sent me some really sweet ones of my two..:biggrin1:


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## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

Do you know who the parents of your pup will be/are? Some of her females or was it males have AKC numbers that you could use to investigate their history. OOPS I am wrong it was her dogs parents. Sorry.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I'm sorry, but I'm a little bothered, o.k. ..... a LOT bothered by this breeder!! I'm sorry, Diane, I know your two are from there, and I'm sure they are fine, but to have a contract open to breeding the puppy you buy, is a recipe for disaster. Why would you, Diane, get a contract to have your two spayed, but not everyone? Strange.

I mean, what experience does any new puppy buyer have in breeding?? It takes *years* for someone to be a reputable and quasi-knowledgeable Hav breeder. No? I mean, there's going to shows, meeting the handlers and breeders there and being mentored, understanding the health tests required and what genetics are in the line of the puppy's family, studying conformation of many, many other Havs, learning, learning and learning.... and then some! When people breed "just for fun" or "for the family", they are opening doors for more Havs to end up in mills, or pet shops. How? Let's say Uncle Bob gets a puppy and of course since he dosen't HAVE to spay or neuter this puppy, he also decides to breed once or twice. Those pups end up ...... Lord knows where, all the while no one, or hardly anyone, is neutering these Havs!! Things get out of control. This is not o.k. by me! These Havs are not health tested, not just at 6-12 mths. or at 2 yrs., but every year or two of their lives (ideally). These "bred for fun" Havs are maybe not quite standard either. What about their temperaments? The list goes on..... :suspicious:

There are so many red flags this woman is waving, that I would cut my losses (the deposit) and take the time to really understand what getting a healthy Havanese is, where you can find one and wait until the time is right. Kids will get over it when they know there is still going to be a puppy in their future, just not until you know where to get the best one for your family.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Marj, I absolutely agree with you.

nupe588, I hope you change your mind at least about your breeding intentions. Think about all the poor dogs in shelters that need a home or even get euthanized simply because shelters lack $ and space. If you simply like being around puppies, you can always try and find a breeder near you (even non-Hav) where you can help out. No need to put more possibly unhealthy/unwanted puppies in this world.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

I agree with Marj!

what was the deposit?

Ryan


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*even if you don't breed...*

You get a puppy that is havanese, and guess what you totally fall in love with it. If it turns out to be "sick" would you have the heart to return it?

And here is the other challenge, having a dog can be costly...even a healthy one! Just to walk into the vets office is anywhere from $50 to over $100 depending on where you are in the US. That doesn't include any treatments.

Just to give you an idea of routine care of a healthy havanese puppy or dog...
Grooming (even if you do it on your own, the cost initially is not cheap). 2x a month.
Good food...(junk is cheap, good food is not)
Nail Trimming
Anal Gland Expressing
2 dental cleanings per year at $85 a pop
Initial vaccines
special leash with collar for soft necks (just to begin with, the list continues)

So what we all now know that we might have not known before are costs associated with dogs that do have problems. Let alone temperament issues.

Because you have the knowledge, go with your gut and not because you want to be a "nice" person as so many of us have done in the past. A havanese lives average of 15 years, why not have healthy ones.

A normal ear infection for my dog was over $250, an eye allergy due to grass a little more. Grooming can be up to $100 for a full comb out and cut! Save the money for the normal parts of having a healthy dog!


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## nupe588 (Dec 15, 2008)

Guys, I had to take a break from the forum and completely forgot about it. The transaction turned out just fine. Thelma and her puppies were just as advertised. We couldn't be more pleased with our puppy. Lovelink gets two thumbs up from us.


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