# A new behavior that I am not sure how to handle



## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Lizzie loves to sleep on the back of our couch. Last winter she would snuggle her head next to mine. Well, all of a sudden if we move or shift position (if the cushion pushes back on her), she will growl. It is the same growl she used to have when she was a puppy and we would bother her when she was sleeping. The only thing is that tonight she sounded nasty. Saturday night my daughter was lying down and when she sat up Lizzie went nuts. 

She sleeps between mine and DH pillows and sometimes when I move she growls, too. 

Unfortunately, DH finds it funny to play wrestle her on the ground and make her growl. I constantly tell him not to do it and his response is "she likes it". He lays her on her back and hovers over her and messes up her hair. 

As far as the couch growling I tell her "no growl" and don't know what else to do. Any suggestions on how to handle this?


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

That's not good. It sounds lke she thinks she's the boss. I get a little confused with all this positive training stuff and the old-fashioned animal behavior about being the dominate animal so I'm not sure how to advise you. I do believe, though, that anytime we let our dogs sleep with us, lay on our laps, or sit above us on the couch, we are submitting to their leadership. I am guilty of this too, so no lecture. Lucy is so cute that it's so hard to not do all these things; I just know they're not good for our animals, or us eventually. I'll be curious as to what suggestions you get.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lizzie'sMom said:


> Lizzie loves to sleep on the back of our couch. Last winter she would snuggle her head next to mine. Well, all of a sudden if we move or shift position (if the cushion pushes back on her), she will growl. It is the same growl she used to have when she was a puppy and we would bother her when she was sleeping. The only thing is that tonight she sounded nasty. Saturday night my daughter was lying down and when she sat up Lizzie went nuts.
> 
> She sleeps between mine and DH pillows and sometimes when I move she growls, too.
> 
> ...


I would not allow her up on the couch or between you on the bed if she is going to growl at you. This behavior has NOTHING to do with dominance or leadership, but it IS a form of resource guarding. She's saying that she has something, and doesn't want to give it up. But that's not acceptable either.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Diann said:


> That's not good. It sounds lke she thinks she's the boss. I get a little confused with all this positive training stuff and the old-fashioned animal behavior about being the dominate animal so I'm not sure how to advise you. I do believe, though, that anytime we let our dogs sleep with us, lay on our laps, or sit above us on the couch, we are submitting to their leadership. I am guilty of this too, so no lecture. Lucy is so cute that it's so hard to not do all these things; I just know they're not good for our animals, or us eventually. I'll be curious as to what suggestions you get.


If you let your small child cuddle in bed with you in the morning, or sit in your lap, do you think they are trying to dominate you? I think it is more likely that they want a cuddle. Resource guarding can be a real problem, but it doesn't have anything to do with the dog trying to claim "leader****p" of the human. It depends a lot on the individual dog and on the physical space whether a dog will be a resource guarder. Some dogs are bad about this in multiple areas, while for other, it might only be confined to the food dish. Many other, including, probably, the majority of Havs, since they tend to be a very biddable breed, don't do much resource guarding at all.


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

krandall said:


> If you let your small child cuddle in bed with you in the morning, or sit in your lap, do you think they are trying to dominate you? I think it is more likely that they want a cuddle. Resource guarding can be a real problem, but it doesn't have anything to do with the dog trying to claim "leader****p" of the human. It depends a lot on the individual dog and on the physical space whether a dog will be a resource guarder. Some dogs are bad about this in multiple areas, while for other, it might only be confined to the food dish. Many other, including, probably, the majority of Havs, since they tend to be a very biddable breed, don't do much resource guarding at all.


Ah, thanks for explaining that to me, Karen. This makes sense when relating it to a child. How do you then apply the positive training in a situation like this?


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Well, I have a call in to a trainer I used when we adopted a Pom who is now my mom's. It's hard for me to admit that my cute, sweet, little dog has some issues!! I figured it was a reaction to being frightened while sleeping, but she actually scared me last night. When she growls on our bed her head is usually tucked under my pillow and I thought she was afraid of being rolled on. She is always by me and never a problem that I know I have slacked in the training area. Last night I started teaching her "off" to get off the couch on command and I will see what the trainer suggests.

She is a little booger with her food and one of our cats. If he walks by she goes after him and only him. They both beg when they smell meat and she goes after him then, too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Diann said:


> Ah, thanks for explaining that to me, Karen. This makes sense when relating it to a child. How do you then apply the positive training in a situation like this?


Hi Diann,

It's much easier to teach a dog to DO something than it is to teach them NOT to do something. (this is actually true of children too!) That can make some forms of resource guarding difficult.... what you want to teach them is NOT to guard whatever the item is. It's not so much your idea of how to deal with the situation that is wrong... I wouldn't let her stay by my head on the couch and growl at me either, it just doesn't have anything to do with dominance. At the same time, I'd try to find a replacement behavior I could teach her, such as "Place", which means to go to to a specific rug or dog bed or what-have-you until released.

I'll tell you about a similar problem I had to solve with Kodi. It wasn't resource guarding, so it's not exactly the same, but I think you will see the similarities in terms of teaching a dog "not" to do something.

Kodi has ALWAYS followed me into the bathroom every time I go. I don't really mind that, I know he just wants to be with me. What I DID mind was that when I go to pull my pants up (I know, TMI) he jumps and grabs my leg between his front legs. He doesn't start humping, but it's that same posture, and I don't like it. I have NO idea why he does this, but it was happening more and more often. I would tell him "Off!" in a stern voice, and he would back off, but then sometimes come right back at me again.

Eventually, it struck me:brick: that I needed to find a different approach. Telling him "Off!" every time didn't STOP the behavior from happening, it just made him get down, after he had already started. So now, when I go into the bathroom, I put him in a down/stay. He must remain there until I'm completely finished, including washing and drying my hands (I intentionally dawdle at times just to test him ). THEN I say "OK, want a cookie?" and he races to the kitchen to wait for me to arrive and get him a treat. I felt like a dope when I realized how simple the solution was, after I had been handling this completely ineffectively for MONTHS.

This is the difference between even a very mild "negative" (me telling him to get "off" over and over again) and a positive approach of asking him for a different, appropriate behavior BEFORE he did something I didn't like. Telling him "Off" till I was blue in the face didn't solve the problem, telling him to down/stay BEFORE he got in trouble worked the FIRST time I tried it. I am sure that, eventually, the behavior will fade from his mind, and it will just become habit that if he follows me into the bathroom, he lays down on the rug. He is already starting to do this without me telling him...but I am still reminding him to "wait" for me to finish.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lizzie'sMom said:


> Well, I have a call in to a trainer I used when we adopted a Pom who is now my mom's. It's hard for me to admit that my cute, sweet, little dog has some issues!! I figured it was a reaction to being frightened while sleeping, but she actually scared me last night. When she growls on our bed her head is usually tucked under my pillow and I thought she was afraid of being rolled on. She is always by me and never a problem that I know I have slacked in the training area. Last night I started teaching her "off" to get off the couch on command and I will see what the trainer suggests.
> 
> She is a little booger with her food and one of our cats. If he walks by she goes after him and only him. They both beg when they smell meat and she goes after him then, too.


Sometimes the only way to keep other animals safe when feeding a dog who is a resource guarder is to feed the dog in a crate. It's MUCH easier to get a dog to stop guarding from people than from a cat or another dog.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I have a different take on this because Milo does it too. I feel as if he's just grouchy if he's in a deep sleep and I have the nerve to disturb him. Just before I get ready for bed lately he lays down right in my spot at the edge of the bed and immediately falls asleep. Whey I try to get into bed he growls at me. He never did like being disturbed when he's sleeping, sort of like a grouchy old man. When he does it, I just say "don't you growl at me," and I shove him over till there's a sliver of bed for me.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

pjewel said:


> I have a different take on this because Milo does it too. I feel as if he's just grouchy if he's in a deep sleep and I have the nerve to disturb him. Just before I get ready for bed lately he lays down right in my spot at the edge of the bed and immediately falls asleep. Whey I try to get into bed he growls at me. He never did like being disturbed when he's sleeping, sort of like a grouchy old man. When he does it, I just say "don't you growl at me," and I shove him over till there's a sliver of bed for me.


I never worried about it because it was always when she is sleeping, never when she is just sitting there. A lot of times she will just get up and move. Unfortunately, both of my older daughters got right in her face after she growled and she got mad. I need to train the daughters not to tease, but Lizzie should not get act that way. Lizzie starts out sleeping at my feet and if I touch her getting into bed she does a short growl, too. She wanders up between the pillows during the night. I never notice until DH gets up.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Gucci has grumble growled a few times in her sleep and it seems to happen when someone lays on her tail/touches her tail..____ "anything to do with her tail" I will hear that grumble, not quite a growl, her 'altered' version of a growl because she got in trouble for the growl so created a funny mimic (I"m sure someone here can relate and has a grumble growler!)

I've always thought it was to warn us not to lay on her or hurt her lil' cute tail, like a "I'm here, back off" version of what a person would say. "OUCH!" or...
"DAMMIT".....ound: "for the love of Cool whip!"......"watch it".

Well, I hope whatever it is, you get it nipped in the bud. I know we all hate the growling but it is a form of communication for them, much like our cursing..lol

Kara


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## smilinjack (Feb 10, 2011)

My deceased Havanese did the same thing. And, she was the Perfect Dog! If we would bump her in the night she would growl and sound vicious. She did it her whole life--it was in her sleep and she was harmless. Oh, how I wish I could hear that sound again. By the way, she growled when she played also. And she was having the most wonderful time of her life. ( I thought they all did) The Havanese next door does it too.
My new 10 month old is a cry baby. I've never had a dog do that before either. When she wants me, or wants something--she will cry. This one I have now does not growl in the bed, or at play. I guess they all have their thing. I'm sure that many will disagree, but I really don't think that you have anything to worry about. I would not punish her for something that she does while she is sleepy, or sleeping.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

smilinjack said:


> My deceased Havanese did the same thing. And, she was the Perfect Dog! If we would bump her in the night she would growl and sound vicious. She did it her whole life--it was in her sleep and she was harmless. Oh, how I wish I could hear that sound again. By the way, she growled when she played also. And she was having the most wonderful time of her life. ( I thought they all did) The Havanese next door does it too.
> My new 10 month old is a cry baby. I've never had a dog do that before either. When she wants me, or wants something--she will cry. This one I have now does not growl in the bed, or at play. I guess they all have their thing. I'm sure that many will disagree, but I really don't think that you have anything to worry about. I would not punish her for something that she does while she is sleepy, or sleeping.


Lizzie is as big growler when she plays!! Yes, it is when she is sleepy/sleeping.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Lizzie'sMom said:


> Lizzie is as big growler when she plays!! Yes, it is when she is sleepy/sleeping.


Ceylon sounds absolutely VICIOUS when he and my daughter play together! I will have to capture it on video some time, he sounds like a ferocious beast! He never growls like that outside of play - if he feels threatened or protective, he does a small growl but then he barks.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

heatherk said:


> Ceylon sounds absolutely VICIOUS when he and my daughter play together! I will have to capture it on video some time, he sounds like a ferocious beast! He never growls like that outside of play - if he feels threatened or protective, he does a small growl but then he barks.


Kodi's ferocious growling is all in play too. Particularly if you are playing tug with him. But if you stop tugging and say "drop it", he gives you the toy right away, and stands back waiting for you to throw it. So I KNOW it's all a game. (our trainer said it's like little boys playing "war".

I think the ONLY time, in two and a half years, that I've seen him growl in earnest was the Christmas incident I told people about where a bunch of (to him) strangers cornered him and tried to take a toy away from him. I really think that if I hadn't intervened, he might have bitten someone that day. BUT it was all caused by stupid people behavior. When I got them to let him out of the corner, he ran into another room where, once he had settled down a bit, he very nicely gave me the toy when I asked for it.

I can't think of another time when I've heard him growl in earnest. He tends to treat everyone, person or dog, as a friend until proved differently, at which point, his default behavior is to run to me and ask to be picked up.


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