# Continuing Potty Problem



## Dilly53 (May 31, 2011)

I greatly appreciated the helpful replies to my previous post regarding my first Havanese. I have housebroken at least 10 dogs with no issues. I've had Oliver (who was just 4 months when I purchased him) for 3 weeks. I've tried bell training him, but he has shown no interest. I have an x-pen that I was keeping him in most of the time, but he poops and pees in it all the time. I walk him at least 2 times a day and that is the only way I can get him to poop anywhere outside. I take him out at night but his crate is never clean in the morning, and I have him in a very tight space. I'm at the end of my patience with him. I love him but cannot live with this constant messing. I take him outside every 30 minutes and he will pee and has started marking but once we go back inside he will make a puddle within minutes. I had him at the vet yesterday and no health problems are apparent. I bought him from a breeder in CO Springs, CO who hasn't returned my email questions, so I'm concerned that something was wrong with him initially that he wasn't sold until he was 4 months old. I'm going to try crate training him now and am hoping someone on this forum can give me a quick guide to crate training. Please, can someone help me train my puppy so I can keep him?


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Hi Dilly,

That sounds so frustrating. It sounds like you're taking him out plenty and at almost 5 months I'd be thinking he could hold it for a few hours . . . But I hear Havs are hard to potty train and they are so small that their little bladders can't hold it very long. However, it may be that your pup hasn't learned to hold it even though he may be physically capable of it at 4.5 months. 

I'm by no means an expert - we've had Rollie for just over a month and he's our first puppy, but we're crate training and I can tell you what we're doing and how I found info. Firstly, I found tons of info on the web including a whole thread dedicated to housebreaking on thedailypuppy.com, not to mention from the forums here. I also asked a bunch of friends about their experiences. Overall the methods I read about were very consistent, but there are some things to decide such as whether you'll leave water, treats/toys or no treats.

I've read that there are a few factors to consider if a dog soils it's crate. Usually this happens with puppies from pet stores; they live in the cage so they get desensitized to living in their waste. I've read a few tips about how to stop this. Firstly, if you put bedding in there, it can sop it up and make it almost comfy for it to be there (the idea is that dogs don't want to muss in their waste or have it in their beds, but if the bedding soaks up urine, then they may not notice it). So I've heard that removing bedding can help. Also, putting a tasty treat or toy (Kong with yummy things inside) in there can also deter soiling b/c the pups won't want to soil their treat. However, I bet there's much more info out there on crate soiling and tips for stopping that. The key is that you want to be sure the dog isn't used to being in close-quarters with his waste because if he is desensitized to this, the crate loses it's power as a training tool.

We started Rollie in the crate the very first night and luckily, he likes it and took to it no problem sleeping in there. We were also lucky that he began to bark the 2nd night to let us know when he had to potty so we were able to take him out. Our big issue was deciding if we'd keep the crate in the bedroom or not and since he never cried at night and let us know that he needed to potty, it was perfect. Now he sleeps through the night most nights (on weekends we wake him up between 4 & 6 or so just so we can all sleep a bit later - Rollie LOVES to sleep in).

It sounds like your guy doesn't bark to let you know he needs to go out. In that case you need to determine when to potty him in the middle of the night and just wake him up. I'm wondering what time you take him out at night . . . If you have a routine, you may want to consider taking him out earlier by around 20 minutes each night until you catch him before he goes and he can wake up with a clean crate. Some nights Rollie needed to go twice and maybe yours does too. It can be a HUGE strain to do that, but until his bladder is bigger, it may be necessary. Even though some people told me they put their pups in crates for full work days and over night with no pottying, I don't believe that is fair or realistic - they just can't hold it that long and shouldn't be expected to do so. 

As for the daytime, we just started putting him in there when we left for work or when we needed to leave the house. At times he tries to get out to play, but he never cries when crated (again, we are super lucky with him). We started with a 4-hour max, but experimented with various times before the 4-hour stints. We use it when we're not home and when he is clearly about to nap (or if he falls asleep in his playpen). He'll stay in there for hours sleeping and seems to be more comfortable in there sleeping than in his playpen or his doggie bed. We were lucky that we didn't need to desensitize him to the crate and we just experimented with how long he could stay there without an accident. He has had 3 or 4 urine accidents in his crate (mostly in the evenings when we had to go out - even if we had been home all day, the first few times we left in the evening for just a few hours he soiled his crate. My guess is that it was a tricky time of day - after dinner, etc.). But in the last 3 weeks he's had no crate-soiling issues. 

Good luck! Keep us posted! Again, I'm no expert and there is so much useful info on the web and within this site and similar sites - definitely check them out.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Dilly53 said:


> I greatly appreciated the helpful replies to my previous post regarding my first Havanese. I have housebroken at least 10 dogs with no issues. I've had Oliver (who was just 4 months when I purchased him) for 3 weeks. I've tried bell training him, but he has shown no interest. I have an x-pen that I was keeping him in most of the time, but he poops and pees in it all the time. I walk him at least 2 times a day and that is the only way I can get him to poop anywhere outside. I take him out at night but his crate is never clean in the morning, and I have him in a very tight space. I'm at the end of my patience with him. I love him but cannot live with this constant messing. I take him outside every 30 minutes and he will pee and has started marking but once we go back inside he will make a puddle within minutes. I had him at the vet yesterday and no health problems are apparent. I bought him from a breeder in CO Springs, CO who hasn't returned my email questions, so I'm concerned that something was wrong with him initially that he wasn't sold until he was 4 months old. I'm going to try crate training him now and am hoping someone on this forum can give me a quick guide to crate training. Please, can someone help me train my puppy so I can keep him?


I have a feeling that this pup may not have been kept in clean conditions while he was with the breeder, so doesn't know any better than to soil his bedding. Did you visit the breeder when you got your pup? Did you see how/where he was being kept, and the potty arrangements they had for him? I would PM Tom King and see if he can help you. Tom has trained SO many puppies that he may have tips to help you turn the situation around.

It's concerning that the breeder won't get back to you. Every time I called or e-mailed with a question Pam and Tom were there for me after I got Kodi. That's what a good breeder should do.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I agree with Karen . Your pup missed the boat on house training by your breeder. Now on the verge of adolescence it makes it that much more challenging to change an established habit. I was given this method for dogs in this boat. 
Get an ex-pen and set it up on a tarpaulin, in a location where you spend lots of time in your home. In the ex-pen, put a crate with a comfy bed in it, and if possible, put the crate up so that it is a few inches off the 
floor. Also make a bed for him that is a few inches off the floor. You 
are putting beds higher because dogs often like to sleep higher than 
their surroundings and with dogs who are not housebroken as adults they 
will sometimes take the height as a salient criteria for not soiling a 
bed. Then on the floor, cover 100% with pee pads. When you cannot 
directly handle him, that is where he should be. Don't worry about 
urination and defecation in the ex-pen cause the whole thing is covered 
and on a protected surface. When he has been on this successfully for 
three weeks, take away a pee pad. If he is successful on this surface 
for three weeks, take away another pee pad. Continue in this way until 
he is chooses pee pads. Once you get him reliable on pee pads, you can also try to transition to outdoors gradually. And here's an article on this. You've got your work cut out for you for sure. http://dogpottyexpert.com/transitioning-to-outdoor-potty-training


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## Dalmane (Oct 4, 2010)

My havanese is 11 months old and I think I see at light at the end of the potty tunnel. My issue now is she doesn't let me know when she has to go and when she's goota go its right now. I am thinking about a pet door actually its a cat door that is keyed to the microchip in the cat (or dog) I have a blind cat and have to make sure he doesn't get out. I really think it might be the answer for Mia.


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