# Favorite pin brush?



## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

I just ordered CC’s wooden pin brush. I like the butter comb and my groomer was very impressed with his coat. I’m trying allll the things lol


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I love the wood pin brush. I loved it in the beginning because my puppy loved it but it didn’t work on mats or anything so after a while I mostly used it for quick stuff, like brushing around his harness area after a walk. After this last haircut, though, I love it even more. I combed him the day before yesterday but it’s been a busy couple of days and he really doesn’t do well with skipping more than a day of grooming. It’s not worth it to me because it’s 5 minutes if I do it every day but 3 times as long if I skip two days in a row. Tonight I brushed him with the wood pin brush, and I actually think it’s good enough to make it until his bath on Saturday! At least, as long as I brush around his “mane” tomorrow, where he’s the most dense.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*pin brush*



Melissa Woods said:


> I just ordered CC's wooden pin brush. I like the butter comb and my groomer was very impressed with his coat. I'm trying allll the things lol


We have the pin brush (the 20mm oblong one) but don't really use it much at all because with his puppy coat we can do pretty much everything we need with the 006 comb. I will sometimes run the pin brush over his back and head, but it's not really needed with his cut.


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

I do love Chris Christensen grooming tools. They are costly but long-lasting.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

His legs and sometimes his neck/ underarms really require a slicker brush before I can get the comb through, even at this length, which is a longer puppy cut. My current pin brush can't get through tangles (I'm not even talking about mats). There's another CC pin brush I'm considering. Any recs for a pin brush that DOES go through tangles?


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

The only brush we use is the wooden pin brush. Good luck!


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## cinquecento (Apr 23, 2020)

I have the Chris Christenden wooden pin brush number 20 and it works well.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Woods said:


> His legs and sometimes his neck/ underarms really require a slicker brush before I can get the comb through, even at this length, which is a longer puppy cut. My current pin brush can't get through tangles (I'm not even talking about mats). There's another CC pin brush I'm considering. Any recs for a pin brush that DOES go through tangles?


I like the CC brass fusion brush and prefer it over the wooden pin brush. I think the wooden pin brush is great for fluffing while blow drying. Other than that, it does nothing for Mia. I might as well run my hand over her. I run the brass fusion brush over her before combing to prepare the coat for combing and get rid of any tangles. It makes combing a breeze! I also prefer it over the slicker brushes. I rarely use a clicker unless she has a bad mat and that is pretty much never.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

mudpuppymama said:


> Melissa Woods said:
> 
> 
> > His legs and sometimes his neck/ underarms really require a slicker brush before I can get the comb through, even at this length, which is a longer puppy cut. My current pin brush can't get through tangles (I'm not even talking about mats). There's another CC pin brush I'm considering. Any recs for a pin brush that DOES go through tangles?
> ...


https://chrischristensen.com/chris-...MI7anU_I2M6wIV3h-tBh2grA1wEAQYASABEgI9YPD_BwE

This one?


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Woods said:


> https://chrischristensen.com/chris-...MI7anU_I2M6wIV3h-tBh2grA1wEAQYASABEgI9YPD_BwE
> 
> This one?


Yes that's it. I have tried other pin brushes and none of them work like this one. The pins glide through easily and Mia loves it. I know others have spoken highly of the wooden pin brush but for some reason it does not work very well on Mia.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I don’t like any of the brushes specifically for mats or detangling, including slickers, which a lot of people do like. I don’t think any of them work as well for detangling as the comb. I like the wire pin brush for drying, but I’m often detangling while drying so I end up using the comb because I’m too impatient to switch back and forth. I’ve tried several CC pin brushes, but I have not tried any of their slickers (I’ve tried off brand slickers that were too bendy or scratchy), and they might be a lot better. For me the wire pin brushes from CC are too flexible and the tines are too far apart, which is what makes them soft and comfortable, but they don’t get through tangles in my very dense Havanese. However, his coats is also on the longer side. I think the length and density of coat might have a lot to do with preference on this. Mine isn’t quite in full coat, but he’s maybe 5 inches long. The wood pin brush definitely doesn’t detangle. But I still love it, I just use it differently. 

The good thing about the CC brushes is I don’t feel like any of them were a waste, even if they don’t work as well for a specific task. I’d use any of them in a pinch, I just definitely have my preference for what works best on a daily basis. Compare that to all of the inexpensive brushes I’ve tossed, and to me it’s much less of a risk.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

There’s also a little CC triangle shaped pin brush that is the same length and softness as the one I use most, just triangle shaped. I kind of wish I had gotten that one instead, because I read that it can get into armpits and stuff a little better. In the end I went with the regular shape because it seemed more practical, but when you mentioned the more loose armpit tangles, I wondered if maybe the triangle one might work better for that. 

One thing I do like so much more about brushes in general is they catch the loose hairs better. I would love to find the perfect brush. The butter comb is definitely the perfect comb!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> There's also a little CC triangle shaped pin brush that is the same length and softness as the one I use most, just triangle shaped. I kind of wish I had gotten that one instead, because I read that it can get into armpits and stuff a little better. In the end I went with the regular shape because it seemed more practical, but when you mentioned the more loose armpit tangles, I wondered if maybe the triangle one might work better for that.
> 
> One thing I do like so much more about brushes in general is they catch the loose hairs better. I would love to find the perfect brush. The butter comb is definitely the perfect comb!


I love the butter comb but it doesn't get out tangles or mats without hurting him. I comb and when I hit a snag I'll try the pin brush I have (somewhat cheap which is why I want to try another) but usually the only thing that really gets through leg and armpit tangles is the slicker.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Thank you EvaE1izabeth! I’ve always wondered about the triangle brush. My curved CC slicker is my favorite (and the Ice Slip Dematting Brush). Now that you’ve mentioned it that’s a great idea for armpits. I’m about to put in an order on chrischristensen.com I read this just in time!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I just wanted to clarify that the reason I like the CC brass fusion pin brush is because I feel it prepares the fur to make combing easier. Mia used to hate to be combed, but once I started using the brass fusion brush prior to combing, I noticed that the combing became easier and Mia did not mind it. It may be useful for light tangles but I would not recommend it for mats. It simply stimulates her scalp, removes some loose hair and makes her hair smoother for combing. To me, combing is where the real grooming happens and where mats are prevented if done properly. So whatever can facilitate more thorough combing and make it easier on you and the dog is a good thing. And that is what the brass fusion brush has done for me. However, every dog is different and what works for one may not work for another.

Just for grins, I searched for recommended grooming tools for Havanese on the CC website and this is what came up. The brass fusion brush is listed. There are also a couple of combs there I have not tried that look interesting. I love experimenting with different tools. I know they are expensive but I have saved probably $20,000 over the years grooming my dogs myself so buying a new tool occasionally is a drop in the bucket.

https://chrischristensen.com/coat-types/coarse-coat-products/


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

That’s helpful Mudpuppymama! Do you use the 20 mm or 27 mm? I also just ordered the Chris Christensen 006 5" Face and Feet Buttercomb. Cotton and JoJo don’t need it but Jodie still seems to have enough hair for 5 Havanese. I’m hopping it will help-fingers crossed.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Okay, I get it, I think it has to do with the method of detangling the mat! I have seen videos of groomers doing it that way, I think how you’re describing with the slicker, where you sort of brush out the tangle starting really shallow, at the surface. I have never been able to figure out how to do that very well. When I reach a mat or tangle and the comb stops, like you describe, I take the top tine of the comb and use it to separate a few of the hairs from the outside of the mat and work my way in. Or I start at the ends and work up to the mat.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

It seems like slickers came up recently and there were some recommendations, but I think it was a tangent.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

JaJa said:


> That's helpful Mudpuppymama! Do you use the 20 mm or 27 mm? I also just ordered the Chris Christensen 006 5" Face and Feet Buttercomb. Cotton and JoJo don't need it but Jodie still seems to have enough hair for 5 Havanese. I'm hopping it will help-fingers crossed.


Jala, I am sorry but I do not know which size I have. My brush is 10 years old! I have the oval shaped one but not sure about size. Maybe you can maneuver into smaller places with the smaller one? For example, get behind the front legs into the armpit area which seems to be a troublesome area for mats.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> It seems like slickers came up recently and there were some recommendations, but I think it was a tangent.


Karen recommended the Artero slicker which I bought. It is softer than most. But I rarely need it.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

mudpuppymama said:


> I just wanted to clarify that the reason I like the CC brass fusion pin brush is because I feel it prepares the fur to make combing easier. Mia used to hate to be combed, but once I started using the brass fusion brush prior to combing, I noticed that the combing became easier and Mia did not mind it. It may be useful for light tangles but I would not recommend it for mats. It simply stimulates her scalp, removes some loose hair and makes her hair smoother for combing. To me, combing is where the real grooming happens and where mats are prevented if done properly. So whatever can facilitate more thorough combing and make it easier on you and the dog is a good thing. And that is what the brass fusion brush has done for me. However, every dog is different and what works for one may not work for another.
> 
> Just for grins, I searched for recommended grooming tools for Havanese on the CC website and this is what came up. The brass fusion brush is listed. There are also a couple of combs there I have not tried that look interesting. I love experimenting with different tools. I know they are expensive but I have saved probably $20,000 over the years grooming my dogs myself so buying a new tool occasionally is a drop in the bucket.
> 
> https://chrischristensen.com/coat-types/coarse-coat-products/


Thank you! This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I always need to brush through to loosen the coat before combing. When Oliver ended up being shaved from matting (he was blowing coat so it didn't help!) I was trying to work through mats with the comb. Using the slicker like Eva described works, but I'm trying to get a pin brush that will do the same thing, at least on his mane, because the slicker can break hair. I think the new one I got is perfect and flexible for legs and feet, armpit areas. After that, I go through with the comb and make sure there are no tangles, go through with the fine toothed part and separate anything I missed.

And update on the wooden pin brush: It came and I really like it! It's helpful for line brushing, because it's so gentle on the skin. It didn't quite pass the test-- I still hit snags with the comb I couldn't get through without using something else. The reason slickers/ pin brushes are, to me, easier than trying to work my way through everything with the comb, is that if you use the right motion with your wrist, it is faster and easier. My dog will only sit there so long. And I brush him every day or every other day. His coat isn't even that long, maybe 3 inches. Just very thick and fluffy. The wooden pin brush is a nice addition. And it's really good for Roxie, who I'm trying to get used to grooming with the CC butter comb. She HATES baths and is TERRIFIED of the blow dryer. So currently I'm trying to socialize those things without traumatizing her. Which means I turn it on for a minute and then she mostly air dries.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Woods said:


> Thank you! This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I always need to brush through to loosen the coat before combing. When Oliver ended up being shaved from matting (he was blowing coat so it didn't help!) I was trying to work through mats with the comb. Using the slicker like Eva described works, but I'm trying to get a pin brush that will do the same thing, at least on his mane, because the slicker can break hair. I think the new one I got is perfect and flexible for legs and feet, armpit areas. After that, I go through with the comb and make sure there are no tangles, go through with the fine toothed part and separate anything I missed.
> 
> And update on the wooden pin brush: It came and I really like it! It's helpful for line brushing, because it's so gentle on the skin. It didn't quite pass the test-- I still hit snags with the comb I couldn't get through without using something else. The reason slickers/ pin brushes are, to me, easier than trying to work my way through everything with the comb, is that if you use the right motion with your wrist, it is faster and easier. My dog will only sit there so long. And I brush him every day or every other day. His coat isn't even that long, maybe 3 inches. Just very thick and fluffy. The wooden pin brush is a nice addition. And it's really good for Roxie, who I'm trying to get used to grooming with the CC butter comb. She HATES baths and is TERRIFIED of the blow dryer. So currently I'm trying to socialize those things without traumatizing her. Which means I turn it on for a minute and then she mostly air dries.


Good luck Melissa! I was clueless when I got Mia and I know she got matted up a few times. I did take her to the groomer at first but I have a feeling that did not go well largely because she had mats. I decided then to groom her myself learning the hard way of course and slowly she came to like grooming sessions and I am able to keep her mat free. However, I still like to keep the grooming sessions as short and sweet as possible so always on the lookout for tools to help with that.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

"She came to like grooming sessions ..." How dreamy that would be! Shama "sits still" for most of our grooming sessions, only squirming when I do head, face, and rear. I would never be able to say that she "likes" grooming sessions. She likes chasing rabbits in our back yard! (They get in under the fence in one vulnerable spot. I don't fill it for fear that they'll make a hole next to it. Shama has never attempted to go out the rabbit hole!)


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

ShamaMama said:


> "She came to like grooming sessions ..." How dreamy that would be! Shama "sits still" for most of our grooming sessions, only squirming when I do head, face, and rear. I would never be able to say that she "likes" grooming sessions. She likes chasing rabbits in our back yard! (They get in under the fence in one vulnerable spot. I don't fill it for fear that they'll make a hole next to it. Shama has never attempted to go out the rabbit hole!)


Ha...I guess "like" is relative. I am sure Mia would much rather chase rabbits! But I would say she LOVES chasing rabbits! She most likely loves the treats I give her during grooming, so the grooming part is actually necessary evil to get treats!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Melissa Woods said:


> The reason slickers/ pin brushes are, to me, easier than trying to work my way through everything with the comb, is that if you use the right motion with your wrist, it is faster and easier. My dog will only sit there so long. And I brush him every day or every other day. His coat isn't even that long, maybe 3 inches. Just very thick and fluffy. dries.


Yeah, that's definitely true about the speed. It reminds me of round brushing, which is definitely more efficient, but it's also usually starting from a place that's completely detangled. I just get frustrated doing it that way because his coat is long and dense and it's hard to track where i am, and I'll find a mat and then lose it again. I have used clips before, too. I have a feeling you're more patient and focused than I am 

I think what it really comes down to is that I've finally sort of built our grooming routine around it not needing to be fast. It's my excuse to watch something on Netflix  I might regret that when we're back to our normal schedule! It used to be built around how I could do it in the car, between lessons, carpool, etc. At the peak of when he was blowing coat, when it was more like 45 minutes, anything to cut that down would have been helpful, too. I did brush before combing when he was younger, because it settled him down, but I still worked out mats with the comb.



Melissa Woods said:


> The wooden pin brush is a nice addition. And it's really good for Roxie, who I'm trying to get used to grooming with the CC butter comb. She HATES baths and is TERRIFIED of the blow dryer. So currently I'm trying to socialize those things without traumatizing her. Which means I turn it on for a minute and then she mostly air dries.


The wooden brush was perfect for introducing grooming. I had a super wiggly, energetic puppy, and I started with the brush. After a while he would roll over to have me brush his tummy! I just used the comb at the end of each quick grooming session because I didn't really need it yet but I wanted him to get used to it.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Yeah, that's definitely true about the speed. It reminds me of round brushing, which is definitely more efficient, but it's also usually starting from a place that's completely detangled. I just get frustrated doing it that way because his coat is long and dense and it's hard to track where i am, and I'll find a mat and then lose it again. I have used clips before, too. I have a feeling you're more patient and focused than I am
> 
> I think what it really comes down to is that I've finally sort of built our grooming routine around it not needing to be fast. It's my excuse to watch something on Netflix  I might regret that when we're back to our normal schedule! It used to be built around how I could do it in the car, between lessons, carpool, etc. At the peak of when he was blowing coat, when it was more like 45 minutes, anything to cut that down would have been helpful, too. I did brush before combing when he was younger, because it settled him down, but I still worked out mats with the comb.
> 
> The wooden brush was perfect for introducing grooming. I had a super wiggly, energetic puppy, and I started with the brush. After a while he would roll over to have me brush his tummy! I just used the comb at the end of each quick grooming session because I didn't really need it yet but I wanted him to get used to it.


You have to do what works. Oliver also has this super fine undercoat, It's very thick, but you can't even comb or brush through it when wet. I can't describe it, even. So I have to get the tangles loosened before I comb it. Or he won't stay still, and it hurts him to pick through the fine but copious little hairs with the comb. It seems to be much worse on his white hair. I'm hoping Roxie will be easier to groom, but I have learned that you can't tell ANYTHING by their coat as a puppy!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*well said*



mudpuppymama said:


> I just wanted to clarify that the reason I like the CC brass fusion pin brush is because I feel it prepares the fur to make combing easier. Mia used to hate to be combed, but once I started using the brass fusion brush prior to combing, I noticed that the combing became easier and Mia did not mind it. It may be useful for light tangles but I would not recommend it for mats. It simply stimulates her scalp, removes some loose hair and makes her hair smoother for combing. To me, combing is where the real grooming happens and where mats are prevented if done properly. So whatever can facilitate more thorough combing and make it easier on you and the dog is a good thing. And that is what the brass fusion brush has done for me. However, every dog is different and what works for one may not work for another.
> 
> Just for grins, I searched for recommended grooming tools for Havanese on the CC website and this is what came up. The brass fusion brush is listed. There are also a couple of combs there I have not tried that look interesting. I love experimenting with different tools. I know they are expensive but I have saved probably $20,000 over the years grooming my dogs myself so buying a new tool occasionally is a drop in the bucket.
> 
> https://chrischristensen.com/coat-types/coarse-coat-products/


This is really well said. That's exactly how I use the pin brush - as a quick once over and preps for combing


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*"liking" grooming*



ShamaMama said:


> "She came to like grooming sessions ..." How dreamy that would be! Shama "sits still" for most of our grooming sessions, only squirming when I do head, face, and rear. I would never be able to say that she "likes" grooming sessions. She likes chasing rabbits in our back yard! (They get in under the fence in one vulnerable spot. I don't fill it for fear that they'll make a hole next to it. Shama has never attempted to go out the rabbit hole!)


I completely agree! Perry will stand there for his full grooming (on his grooming table to get cut) but he really doesn't like it... and for his combing (legs/ face/ ears/ tail) on a more regular basis, when he sees me bringing out the dreaded comb he will 'come' to me but he does it in a way that he creeps over one tiny inch at a time until he's next to me (like if he does it slowly enough maybe I'll forget what I wanted to do).

The front feet/ legs are definitely the worst! the rest he'll try to evade (I end up combing his beard while his face is as high in the air as he can reach it - so usually right under my chin) but the front feet are a serious fight. I've seriously considered wrapping him in a towel to do them - especially to cut his nails (I can deal with him fighting me when I'm just combing it out). The vet was over yesterday to drop off his rabies titer paper and I actually had her cut his nails because even though I have been trying to do it, they've gotten sooooooo long over the last few months and it's a total drama trying to get them cut (not to mention that they're ALL black so I never want to cut too short and hit his nail bed so I end up leaving them long-ish even when I do cut them). Even with her - it took both of us - me to hold him and try to keep his leg still while she did the cutting. He makes me feel like we're incredibly mean people because as soon as you let him go he turns to face me and curls his feet between his body and mine to protect them (at least he still thinks I can protect him - even from myself  )


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I would caution those of you who have younger dogs/puppies, not to call your dog to you for grooming. It's a great way to ruin your recall! LOL! Just go get them! In fact, I have a friend who stopped all barking in her house by brightly announcing any time any dog barked, "Oh! You must want your nails cut!!!" (then carrying through  )

As far as nails are concerned, Pixel used to be like Perry. It took Dave holding her wrapped in a towel and practically SITTING on her, and me pulling out one paw at a time to get her nails clipped. Then I switched to the Dremel. It took a while for her to get to trust it, and I won't say she loves it, but I can do her completely by myself, with her just on the grooming table in a grooming loop. 

I can't tell you how much persisting, and learning to use a Dremel WELL has changed the lives of both my dogs and myself. It is no longer stressful for any of us. As a result, I do it more frequently, and as a result, they have consistently shorter nails.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I would caution those of you who have younger dogs/puppies, not to call your dog to you for grooming. It's a great way to ruin your recall! LOL! Just go get them! In fact, I have a friend who stopped all barking in her house by brightly announcing any time any dog barked, "Oh! You must want your nails cut!!!" (then carrying through  )
> 
> As far as nails are concerned, Pixel used to be like Perry. It took Dave holding her wrapped in a towel and practically SITTING on her, and me pulling out one paw at a time to get her nails clipped. Then I switched to the Dremel. It took a while for her to get to trust it, and I won't say she loves it, but I can do her completely by myself, with her just on the grooming table in a grooming loop.
> 
> I can't tell you how much persisting, and learning to use a Dremel WELL has changed the lives of both my dogs and myself. It is no longer stressful for any of us. As a result, I do it more frequently, and as a result, they have consistently shorter nails.


I have also switched to the Dremel and it has made a huge difference in nail trimming sessions.

As far as calling Mia for grooming, we groom every day about the same time, near dinner time when she is hungry. All I do is get her treats ready and bring them to the grooming table. And lo and behold! Mia is right there demanding to be groomed!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I have also switched to the Dremel and it has made a huge difference in nail trimming sessions.
> 
> As far as calling Mia for grooming, we groom every day about the same time, near dinner time when she is hungry. All I do is get her treats ready and bring them to the grooming table. And lo and behold! Mia is right there demanding to be groomed!


Perfect!!! If they just "show up", that's best of all, because it SHOWS they don't "mind" it, even if it's not a favorite activity. Mine are that way about regular grooming. But get the bath towels out, and take the dish drainer out of the sink and... all dogs have disappeared.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*Dremel*



krandall said:


> I would caution those of you who have younger dogs/puppies, not to call your dog to you for grooming. It's a great way to ruin your recall! LOL! Just go get them! In fact, I have a friend who stopped all barking in her house by brightly announcing any time any dog barked, "Oh! You must want your nails cut!!!" (then carrying through  )
> 
> As far as nails are concerned, Pixel used to be like Perry. It took Dave holding her wrapped in a towel and practically SITTING on her, and me pulling out one paw at a time to get her nails clipped. Then I switched to the Dremel. It took a while for her to get to trust it, and I won't say she loves it, but I can do her completely by myself, with her just on the grooming table in a grooming loop.
> 
> I can't tell you how much persisting, and learning to use a Dremel WELL has changed the lives of both my dogs and myself. It is no longer stressful for any of us. As a result, I do it more frequently, and as a result, they have consistently shorter nails.


I try to use the dremel more than cutting his nails as well - but I don't think the dremel I have is the best for this (Karen - what brand/ type of dremel do you have) - because it doesn't seem to take them down very fast and he still HATES anything to do with his front feet (I have a feeling it's more about holding/ touching his front feet than it is about the actual cutting process - he's fine with both dremel and cutting on his back feet). I will keep trying - the nice thing about the dremel is that you can do it very often, which I really need to do more consistently to try to get him more used to it. I think I have to start - maybe doing it every other day and just doing 1 or 2 nails a night to see if we can try to desensitize it!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*baths*



krandall said:


> Perfect!!! If they just "show up", that's best of all, because it SHOWS they don't "mind" it, even if it's not a favorite activity. Mine are that way about regular grooming. But get the bath towels out, and take the dish drainer out of the sink and... all dogs have disappeared.


Oh yes (about bath time). I was planning on giving Perry a bath today anyway, but last evening he threw up - and being Perry who doesn't like a mess on the ground - he rubbed his head in it to 'clean' it up. So, I had to give him a bath last night... He usually follows me into the bedroom or whereever, but as soon as he saw me take his bath towels out of the cupboard, it took 3 "come"s to get him to come down the hall (and then it was the slow, feet dragging, head down 'come'). Yes, I agree with Karen about ruining their recall - his is definitely not solid when there's something he's more interested in OR when he knows what I'm calling him for is something he doesn't like


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

The ice slip brush came today and I love it! Really gentle on his skin. His coat is really a lot more manageable now at 1.5 than it was even 3 months ago. It’s very silky soft. And now that he lets me brush/ comb with quality tools it’s easier. The brass fusion pin brush comes Wednesday. 

The ice slip brush, wooden pin, slicker and comb were all used during an unfortunate incident where he was playing under the table (mind you I had just gotten out a mat on his shoulder and was happy) and my daughter spilled orange juice. It dripped all over him as he tried to lap it up. Grrr. Late bath time


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Woods said:


> The ice slip brush came today and I love it! Really gentle on his skin. His coat is really a lot more manageable now at 1.5 than it was even 3 months ago. It's very silky soft. And now that he lets me brush/ comb with quality tools it's easier. The brass fusion pin brush comes Wednesday.
> 
> The ice slip brush, wooden pin, slicker and comb were all used during an unfortunate incident where he was playing under the table (mind you I had just gotten out a mat on his shoulder and was happy) and my daughter spilled orange juice. It dripped all over him as he tried to lap it up. Grrr. Late bath time


Awesome! It is so wonderful to find a tool that works for you. I do not have the ice slip brush but I do have the brass fusion brush which I really like. I would love to hear your opinions on how they compare. I may have to add an ice slip brush to my tool kit.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

I can’t wait to get the brass fusion! I’ll let you know the difference in utility once it arrives.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> I try to use the dremel more than cutting his nails as well - but I don't think the dremel I have is the best for this (Karen - what brand/ type of dremel do you have) - because it doesn't seem to take them down very fast and he still HATES anything to do with his front feet (I have a feeling it's more about holding/ touching his front feet than it is about the actual cutting process - he's fine with both dremel and cutting on his back feet). I will keep trying - the nice thing about the dremel is that you can do it very often, which I really need to do more consistently to try to get him more used to it. I think I have to start - maybe doing it every other day and just doing 1 or 2 nails a night to see if we can try to desensitize it!


This is the one I ordered the last time. It's just a "real" Dremel. Brand name:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TU0XG4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I got the "pet" one this time because it comes with less attachments, and I already have "all the attachments". The first one I bought was a 7700, which is no longer made. None of them are all that expensive. The EXPENSIVE part is replacement batteries. When the batteries wore out on my older one, and I tried to get replacements, a new Dremel was cheaper than replacement batteries!!! So alway, always ALWAY buy extra batteries when you buy one!!! The other reason to have extra batteries is to keep one battery charging while you are using the other. 

I don't think the model matters all that much as long as it's this brand. I think the other brands, especially those made specifically for the pet trade are junk.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> The ice slip brush came today and I love it! Really gentle on his skin. His coat is really a lot more manageable now at 1.5 than it was even 3 months ago. It's very silky soft. And now that he lets me brush/ comb with quality tools it's easier. The brass fusion pin brush comes Wednesday.
> 
> The ice slip brush, wooden pin, slicker and comb were all used during an unfortunate incident where he was playing under the table (mind you I had just gotten out a mat on his shoulder and was happy) and my daughter spilled orange juice. It dripped all over him as he tried to lap it up. Grrr. Late bath time


LOL! One time last winter... Pre-Covid, so I was in the office with him, The vet said, "I don't remember this tan spot on Kodi's shoulder...?" I had to admit that my granddaughter had spilled spaghetti sauce on him while clandestinely feeding him ravioli (which he shouldn't HAVE... he's allergic to cheese!) at dinner. I had washed him THREE TIMES trying to get the stain out. It finally just had to grow out. LOL!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

So many new tools! LOVE new tools. I haven't heard of the ice slip one... Hmmm...


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

LOL pasta sauce stains everything! I had to laugh at myself for scolding her about the dog. But unless you have a Havanese, you can’t understand what a disaster sticky orange juice can be for grooming!


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

*Pics*

This is the Ice Slip pin brush. It's 8 3/4 inches long and the width with the pins is 1.5 inches. The 20 mm pins are thick stainless steel. There is a short video on groomerspro.com Amazon refers to it as a dematting brush but all they other sites just say Ice Slip brush. I use it for detangling and as a general purpose brush.
Thank you for the post Krandall! I've been talking to my husband about getting a new dermal. He had the audacity to question whether or not we're actually saving money on professional grooming &#128518; Actually he finds my delight, when I get something new, quite entertaining.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

JaJa said:


> This is the Ice Slip pin brush. It's 8 3/4 inches long and the width with the pins is 1.5 inches. The 20 mm pins are thick stainless steel. There is a short video on groomerspro.com Amazon refers to it as a dematting brush but all they other sites just say Ice Slip brush. I use it for detangling and as a general purpose brush.
> Thank you for the post Krandall! I've been talking to my husband about getting a new dermal. He had the audacity to question whether or not we're actually saving money on professional grooming &#128518; Actually he finds my delight, when I get something new, quite entertaining.


I really like it. The thick pins are gentle on the skin while still going all the way through the coat and loosening tangles prior to combing. It isn't damaging to the hair like a slicker can be, but I can't see it getting a REAL mat loose, but rather preventing them. It's perfect for the mane, back, chest and armpits because of the size and shape. Though the video shows her getting out a mat in a similar hand motion as the slicker brush so I may try that. Really the biggest thing is the brush has so much utility without being remotely sharp


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Sadly, I have 3 dremels. I use the pet version all the time but not on my Havanese! It happens to be the smallest, so it’s light and fits into tight corners  I did plan to use it on him, and even slowly introduced him to it and started handling his paws more. Since most of the time I had his nails done while he was already at daycare, every time I went to do it myself I felt like I was doing it for the first time. Now I wish I had spent more time working on it!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Sadly, I have 3 dremels. I use the pet version all the time but not on my Havanese! It happens to be the smallest, so it's light and fits into tight corners  I did plan to use it on him, and even slowly introduced him to it and started handling his paws more. Since most of the time I had his nails done while he was already at daycare, every time I went to do it myself I felt like I was doing it for the first time. Now I wish I had spent more time working on it!


Don't feel bad EvaE1izabeth, I have a whole list of things I would have done differently! I am continually working on improvements in grooming and nail trimming sessions! I too wish I had conditioned them better for nail trims when they were younger but they finally tolerate it fairly well, although I doubt they will ever love it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Sadly, I have 3 dremels. I use the pet version all the time but not on my Havanese! It happens to be the smallest, so it's light and fits into tight corners  I did plan to use it on him, and even slowly introduced him to it and started handling his paws more. Since most of the time I had his nails done while he was already at daycare, every time I went to do it myself I felt like I was doing it for the first time. Now I wish I had spent more time working on it!


I think Kodi was over 6 when I finally got brave enough to do it. When you have multiples, it gets expensive AND time-consuming farming all this maintenance stuff out. Sometimes it's just easier to bite the bullet and learn to do it yourself! LOL!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

I hate nail clipping. Not as much as tooth brushing though. 

The pin brush came and I love it too! I can’t say which is my favorite only that this is sooooo different than the cheap pin brush I have with sharp, spindly pins. I think if you want a bit deeper of a brush through the pin brush is the way to go. But the shape of the ice slip is better on small areas like armpits, and the pins are more blunt so I don’t fear hurting him in sensitive areas like his sides


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I think Kodi was over 6 when I finally got brave enough to do it. When you have multiples, it gets expensive AND time-consuming farming all this maintenance stuff out. Sometimes it's just easier to bite the bullet and learn to do it yourself! LOL!


No kidding! I think I have saved 20,000 dollars over the life time of my 12 and almost 12 year old! Not to mention the time and stress of taking them somewhere. I also never feel guilty about buying another "tool" which typically costs less than ONE grooming session!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Woods said:


> I hate nail clipping. Not as much as tooth brushing though.
> 
> The pin brush came and I love it too! I can't say which is my favorite only that this is sooooo different than the cheap pin brush I have with sharp, spindly pins. I think if you want a bit deeper of a brush through the pin brush is the way to go. But the shape of the ice slip is better on small areas like armpits, and the pins are more blunt so I don't fear hurting him in sensitive areas like his sides


Thanks for reporting back on this. I agree...the brass fusion brush is definitely not in the same "league" as the typical pin brush! Similar to how the butter combs are so much better.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

OK, you guys are a really bad influence on me. Like I REALLY need another almost-$40 brush!  ...But I ordered one.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

krandall said:


> OK, you guys are a really bad influence on me. Like I REALLY need another almost-$40 brush!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hahaha! I don't spend as much on my own hair as his. I mean, with COVID my teenage daughter gave me my last haircut... she didn't do a bad job or anything but it did make me wonder when the last time I'd spent 100 dollars on grooming products for myself?


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Melissa, is the density of the pins different between the two? Thanks for comparing them for us! 

I wish they listed the diameter/gauge of the wire on the brushes for comparison. I found the length, but most of the brushes only come in 1-2 lengths so it’s like, short or long. But I haven’t ever found information on the density of the bristles or how thick they are, and that seems to be a more significant variation between the different brushes.

Even though I don’t use brushes often, I’d love to find the “perfect fit” brush for the way I groom. I can justify the cost as long as I use it occasionally, I’m pretty good at that! But a new brush would feel like a waste if it’s too similar to what I already have, and it’s hard to compare them online.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Melissa, is the density of the pins different between the two? Thanks for comparing them for us!
> 
> I wish they listed the diameter/gauge of the wire on the brushes for comparison. I found the length, but most of the brushes only come in 1-2 lengths so it's like, short or long. But I haven't ever found information on the density of the bristles or how thick they are, and that seems to be a more significant variation between the different brushes.
> 
> Even though I don't use brushes often, I'd love to find the "perfect fit" brush for the way I groom. I can justify the cost as long as I use it occasionally, I'm pretty good at that! But a new brush would feel like a waste if it's too similar to what I already have, and it's hard to compare them online.


The ice slip brush DEFINITELY has pins that are a little thicker/ wider. And steel. The thing looks indestructible!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> Hahaha! I don't spend as much on my own hair as his. I mean, with COVID my teenage daughter gave me my last haircut... she didn't do a bad job or anything but it did make me wonder when the last time I'd spent 100 dollars on grooming products for myself?


We are finding we don't spend as much on MANY things as we did pre-Covid. Even Starbucks... First, I don't drive around NEARLY as much as I used to (which also saves gas) but that means I don't go PAST Starbucks. Then, when I do, I see that huge long drive-up line, and think..."nah" and drive home without it. So that saves me $10-15 a week right there! (I'll admit it... I'm a latte addict  )

And training!!! I used to do 2-3 classes a week plus my private lesson, plus often rental time once every week or so, and that doesn't count trial/show entries... I guess I can afford a new brush.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I love Mudpuppymama’s point that one brush is still less than the cost of grooming. Actually, since I always add on everything under the sun, it’s 1/3 the cost of grooming!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> OK, you guys are a really bad influence on me. Like I REALLY need another almost-$40 brush!  ...But I ordered one.


Karen, don't feel bad...I just ordered the ice slip dematting brush to go along with my existing brass fusion brush!!! Just keep thinking about all those grooming dollars you are saving!


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

*New Purchase*

Hmmm, I think I'm experiencing FOMO about the Ice Slip brush, perhaps I'll order a back up just in case&#128523; I think I should also order the fusion brush for Cotton and JoJo's puppy cuts. I've been sharing justifications for shopping with my husband, who is actually entertained by everything. Krandall, multiple dogs is one of the best reasons-I think. One grooming session for all 3 of them is $250-$300.00 per month, depending on the groomer. Muddypuppymama, 20,000.00 over 12 years is a savings of 1666.66 per year or $138.88 per month. All those numbers are pleasantly accurate&#128523; Also, think of the savings on therapy our babies provide! 
Below is today's product. I ordered the CC 00R In the Ring Shorty Buttercomb 5" for $33.00. I had several windows open looking at prices and after I ordered it I realized the dimensions were different from site to site. I thought the teeth were 7/8" but they're actually 5/8". I looks like a Barbie size buttercomb. It doesn't begin to penetrate Jodie's proliferous layers of hair. I use the black plastic comb for JoJo and Cotton and it works like a charm. I am returning it for an exchange. Has anyone ever used the CC staggered teeth comb or the CC Drop N Drag Mini T-Rake A432? The T-Rake looks like the staggered teeth comb with a handle attached. 
I suppose I should get some work accomplished, although this is my online playground and the buzzer is broken so recess ends...&#128518;


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Karen, don't feel bad...I just ordered the ice slip dematting brush to go along with my existing brass fusion brush!!! Just keep thinking about all those grooming dollars you are saving!


That was my justification.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

So what's the difference between the CC brass fusion brush and the CC pin brush?


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> That was my justification.


Sometimes when I want to buy something I tell my husband I am doing my part in stimulating the economy.

It doesn't always work...


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Brill said:


> So what's the difference between the CC brass fusion brush and the CC pin brush?


Melissa, I do not have the regular CC pin brush so cannot really say. However, my understanding is that the brass fusion brush has 30 percent more pins and they are the smoothest pins available. The brush is static free and glides through the hair easily. I love this brush. I think if a dog is in a puppy cut you could probably get by with less combing if you use this brush. I called the CC support folks and they said the brass fusion brush is the pin brush they recommend for Havanese.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*puppy cut*



mudpuppymama said:


> Melissa, I do not have the regular CC pin brush so cannot really say. However, my understanding is that the brass fusion brush has 30 percent more pins and they are the smoothest pins available. The brush is static free and glides through the hair easily. I love this brush. I think if a dog is in a puppy cut you could probably get by with less combing if you use this brush. I called the CC support folks and they said the brass fusion brush is the pin brush they recommend for Havanese.


I have the regular pin brush, but honestly I barely use a brush at all with Perry in a puppy cut, I just use the comb. The only time I use the brush is more when I want to give him a little bit of a "massage" with it


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Brill said:


> I have the regular pin brush, but honestly I barely use a brush at all with Perry in a puppy cut, I just use the comb. The only time I use the brush is more when I want to give him a little bit of a "massage" with it


Good point. I guess there are many different puppy cut lengths. I keep Mia in a longer puppy cut typically and brushing her first is helpful.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Sometimes when I want to buy something I tell my husband I am doing my part in stimulating the economy.
> 
> It doesn't always work...


LOL! I'll have to remember that one!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Melissa, I do not have the regular CC pin brush so cannot really say. However, my understanding is that the brass fusion brush has 30 percent more pins and they are the smoothest pins available. The brush is static free and glides through the hair easily. I love this brush. I think if a dog is in a puppy cut you could probably get by with less combing if you use this brush. I called the CC support folks and they said the brass fusion brush is the pin brush they recommend for Havanese.


Ohhh! Static-free?!?! THAT would be wonderful for when we get to classes in the winter, and I take off their coats and they look like I just plugged them into a light socket!!! Il have to remember that! (must show SOME restraint and not buy another brush NOW... When there is ONE on the way already! LOL!)


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Ohhh! Static-free?!?! THAT would be wonderful for when we get to classes in the winter, and I take off their coats and they look like I just plugged them into a light socket!!! Il have to remember that! (must show SOME restraint and not buy another brush NOW... When there is ONE on the way already! LOL!)


The static free aspect is nice in winter so Mia does not look like she stuck her paw in a light socket. And we have a totally different coat here in our super humid months! It is like having two different dogs. Humidity is another reason I need to brush first. Her fur sort of puffs up in humid weather.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> LOL! I'll have to remember that one!!!


Let me know if it works for you. We are currently building a house so I am picking out LOTS of stuff so I have been using this on him quite often!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> Let me know if it works for you. We are currently building a house so I am picking out LOTS of stuff so I have been using this on him quite often!


Make sure you use it to include a nice utility sink and grooming area  With a pull down faucet!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Make sure you use it to include a nice utility sink and grooming area  With a pull down faucet!


We will have a big farmhouse sink in the kitchen with a pull down faucet so that should work!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> We will have a big farmhouse sink in the kitchen with a pull down faucet so that should work!


Yes! When we redid our kitchen, I told the builder that I wanted a sink big enough to be a swimming pool for Kodi!!! (And yes, a pull-down sprayer also. . I like being able to wash them right in the kitchen.


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

I might have a sink and new faucet with pull out sprayer sitting on my living room floor waiting to be installed.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Wulfin said:


> I might have a sink and new faucet with pull out sprayer sitting on my living room floor waiting to be installed.


Last year we had one installed in our travel trailer so I can bathe the dogs in the kitchen sink in there too! LOL!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Wulfin said:


> I might have a sink and new faucet with pull out sprayer sitting on my living room floor waiting to be installed.


I got a new faucet a while ago because the sprayer on the old one broke, and I love it so much! It isn't even really fancy, but it's pretty and it has a pull down. But it is amazing how it makes the whole kitchen look so much nicer, and it's so functional, i think about upgrading the sink all of the time. It's harder to justify because we'd have to adjust the plumbing to install the sink with the offset drain I really want. I wonder how many grooming sessions it would be equivalent to.

But if I was building a house, it would be on my list of non-negotiables, along with trash pullouts, closet organizers, and a very specific laundry setup. Those have turned out to be the hardest things to resolve in our existing house, and would have been easier to do before we moved in.

I also have tons of ideas saved for doggie gates, built in "caves" and houses. So many fun things I wish I could do! The more ridiculous, the better.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I got a new faucet a while ago because the sprayer on the old one broke, and I love it so much! It isn't even really fancy, but it's pretty and it has a pull down. But it is amazing how it makes the whole kitchen look so much nicer, and it's so functional, i think about upgrading the sink all of the time. It's harder to justify because we'd have to adjust the plumbing to install the sink with the offset drain I really want. I wonder how many grooming sessions it would be equivalent to.
> 
> But if I was building a house, it would be on my list of non-negotiables, along with trash pullouts, closet organizers, and a very specific laundry setup. Those have turned out to be the hardest things to resolve in our existing house, and would have been easier to do before we moved in.
> 
> I also have tons of ideas saved for doggie gates, built in "caves" and houses. So many fun things I wish I could do! The more ridiculous, the better.


Sadly I think we only learn what we really want by living with what we do not want for awhile! I have tried to apply what I have learned over the years to our new house design. However, I wouldn't doubt that there will be something in the new house I would do differently after living there awhile!


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

Totally agree! I need a sink large enough to bathe dogs in the kitchen and right now we have a split sink. My hubby likes having a split sink, so I was able to convince him that we should get an offset one with one side bigger than the other. So I’m excited. 

I also haven’t had a faucet with a sprayer EVER since I like large fish tanks and need a regular tap to hook up to the Python system. But I only have a small tank now so I just lug buckets of water instead. Lol. So I’m treating myself!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I got a new faucet a while ago because the sprayer on the old one broke, and I love it so much! It isn't even really fancy, but it's pretty and it has a pull down. But it is amazing how it makes the whole kitchen look so much nicer, and it's so functional, i think about upgrading the sink all of the time. It's harder to justify because we'd have to adjust the plumbing to install the sink with the offset drain I really want. I wonder how many grooming sessions it would be equivalent to.
> 
> But if I was building a house, it would be on my list of non-negotiables, along with trash pullouts, closet organizers, and a very specific laundry setup. Those have turned out to be the hardest things to resolve in our existing house, and would have been easier to do before we moved in.
> 
> I also have tons of ideas saved for doggie gates, built in "caves" and houses. So many fun things I wish I could do! The more ridiculous, the better.


Our kitchen was the last "upgrade" to the tiny old farmhouse that came with our (horse farm) property. The first priority, when our first child was on the way, was just plain ROOM. We only had two bedrooms, a SMALL living room and a small eat-in kitchen. (plus a TINY third room over the stairs that didn't "count" as a bedroom according to the town, but later got pushed into service as our second son's bedroom!) We added on a good-sized family room so the kids would have a place to play without being RIGHT underfoot. That's how the house stayed for most of their growing up years, though we did do a cosmetic "spruce-up" to the kitchen at one point.

When Robbie was in college, and Timothy was in high school, the office I had been renting for my business was sold. Renting a new office space would have cost more, and the mortgage rates were low at that point. For the same amount as renting another office for me, we were able to put an addition on our house that added half again the footprint. We added offices for Dave and me on the first floor, took out the tiny non-bed room that Timothy had used all his life and put in a master suite above the new offices. That left our old "master" (the same size as the other bedroom... only a "master" because it had two small closets instead of one  ) for Timothy, and Robbie's room as it was. At the time, re-doing the functional but dated kitchen seemed like a luxury we didn't want to add to an already large second mortgage.

Then came the coyote problem in MA. It was no longer safe to take Kodi out off-leash (but closely supervised) to do his business. We were followed back to the house twice by coyotes. I wasn't even thrilled with taking him out ON leash, after a couple of small dogs were snatched off leashes in our area. So I told Dave that I wanted to fence the back yard. We have horse fences everywhere, but they do not keep small dogs in or coyotes OUT! So we did that. The only problem is that we had no doors that opened into the new back yard. So we STILL had to walk him out of the front of the house, and around the side and into the fenced yard. Which was OK until winter froze the gates to the ground!

_I_ wanted to just put a gate in the existing porch railing and a set of steps off the porch into the yard. THAT would have solved the problem. DAVE would have none of it! He said we needed a door out of the HOUSE into the backyard, so we could let Kodi out directly. Thus became the start of the "Kodi's Kitchen Project". LOL! We tore out the entire back half of the downstairs. basically all of the house that had not been touched in the previous renovation. We added a deck off the back of the house with French doors from the kitchen, completely redid the kitchen and redid the half bath/laundry on that level as well, stacking the washer and dryer, giving us room to put in a shower, and turning it into a full bath. Not that we ever use it, but it was easy to do in the midst of everything else, added little to the cost, and we figured it added to the value of the house. We, literally, took the whole thing back to the studs. We made a second pass through into the dining room too (that room that USED to be the "living room" in the old TINY house!) The house is now unrecognizable from the original house... inside and out. To the point that people who haven't been here in a long time come down the driveway and think they are in the wrong place! LOL!

It took almost 30 years, but I FINALLY have the house I love on the property I've ALWAYS loved!

Below is the house on the day we bought it, the second photo is now. the third is Kodi supervising the destruction of his kitchen... back to the studs!, fourth is the "middle kitchen" (cosmetic upgrade, but same, poor floorplan, horrible cabinets and no counter space. The final one is the finished "Kodi's Kitchen" with his lovely French doors into his expensively fenced back yard. I'll tell you, this has been one expensive dog! LOL!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

But THIS is why we bought the farm... Not for the little ugly house but for this piece of Heaven on earth!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Beautiful place you have there Karen! You can upgrade a house but only so much you can do to property. We are looking forward to moving to our country place. My husband always fears starting any renovation because of what he calls the “cascading effect”. My simple kitchen renovation here started with replacing my white dishwasher with a stainless steel one. Then the cascade started!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Wulfin said:


> Totally agree! I need a sink large enough to bathe dogs in the kitchen and right now we have a split sink. My hubby likes having a split sink, so I was able to convince him that we should get an offset one with one side bigger than the other. So I'm excited.
> 
> I also haven't had a faucet with a sprayer EVER since I like large fish tanks and need a regular tap to hook up to the Python system. But I only have a small tank now so I just lug buckets of water instead. Lol. So I'm treating myself!


Have you seen the sinks with the lower partition? I thought that was a great alternative to a completely divided sink! Still fit a big cookie sheet OR a Havanese, but still divided. I wasn't sold on the idea of a farmhouse style sink at first, because I like to have a clean area and a dish area, but then I came across the big workstation sinks where you can use a dish bin in them...

Maybe what I should do is start setting aside my "saved grooming cash" in an actual envelope!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Have you seen the sinks with the lower partition? I thought that was a great alternative to a completely divided sink! Still fit a big cookie sheet OR a Havanese, but still divided. I wasn't sold on the idea of a farmhouse style sink at first, because I like to have a clean area and a dish area, but then I came across the big workstation sinks where you can use a dish bin in them...
> 
> Maybe what I should do is start setting aside my "saved grooming cash" in an actual envelope!


If you really like a double sink, you can get a huge one where a Havanese will fit into each side. My current double sink is 42 inches wide. Each bowl is 21 inches! The previous owner had a three sink setup but we replace with two. The sink is insane but we went with the existing cabinet.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Beautiful place you have there Karen! You can upgrade a house but only so much you can do to property. We are looking forward to moving to our country place. My husband always fears starting any renovation because of what he calls the "cascading effect". My simple kitchen renovation here started with replacing my white dishwasher with a stainless steel one. Then the cascade started!


Sounds like "Kodi's fence" that turned into "Kodi's Kitchen".


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Wulfin said:


> Totally agree! I need a sink large enough to bathe dogs in the kitchen and right now we have a split sink. My hubby likes having a split sink, so I was able to convince him that we should get an offset one with one side bigger than the other. So I'm excited.
> 
> I also haven't had a faucet with a sprayer EVER since I like large fish tanks and need a regular tap to hook up to the Python system. But I only have a small tank now so I just lug buckets of water instead. Lol. So I'm treating myself!


Someone ELSE who understands the importance of a PYTHON!!! When we re-did the kitchen, I tried to explain the issue to the builder and failed. He finally sent me to the plumbing supply place myself. I took the Python connection and told them I wanted a pull-down spray faucet, but that the head had to come off, AND THEN there had to be a way to adapt it to fit the Python. Otherwise, the deal was off. They thought I was crazy. There are only a VERY FEW that will work. But we found one! And they found the proper brass fittings to go from one to the other. I have a LOT of tanks, and they are spread around the living areas of our house. I couldn't survive without my Python. No buckets for me!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Have you seen the sinks with the lower partition? I thought that was a great alternative to a completely divided sink! Still fit a big cookie sheet OR a Havanese, but still divided. I wasn't sold on the idea of a farmhouse style sink at first, because I like to have a clean area and a dish area, but then I came across the big workstation sinks where you can use a dish bin in them...
> 
> Maybe what I should do is start setting aside my "saved grooming cash" in an actual envelope!


My sink is big enough that I can put a dish pan in one side and a dish drainer in the other side. So it's REALLY big. It has a SS grate on the bottom, and the drainer (which is also SS) stay in the sink most of the time. We just put the dish pan in when we actually wash dishes by hand, which isn't that often... Usually only big family parties. (who has THOSE anymore?!?!  ) For washing pots and pans, we don't usually use the dishpan anyway, we just wash them under the faucet on the free side of the sink and put them straight in the drainer.

Ours isn't a true "farmhouse style", because it doesn't have the big apron that comes through the counter at the front. It's just a big SS one-tub sink.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

It’s so pretty! Not just room to groom Havanese, but lots of room for them to run and play. 

Beautiful!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> If you really like a double sink, you can get a huge one where a Havanese will fit into each side. My current double sink is 42 inches wide. Each bowl is 21 inches! The previous owner had a three sink setup but we replace with two. The sink is insane but we went with the existing cabinet.


WOW!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> It's so pretty! Not just room to groom Havanese, but lots of room for them to run and play.
> 
> Beautiful!


But we waited 30 years for it! LOL!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> If you really like a double sink, you can get a huge one where a Havanese will fit into each side. My current double sink is 42 inches wide. Each bowl is 21 inches! The previous owner had a three sink setup but we replace with two. The sink is insane but we went with the existing cabinet.


That would be nice! I have a 33" cabinet to work with, unless I want to start a major cascade involving the entire kitchen island! When we moved in it felt so much bigger than our old one. I think maybe because of the way it's shaped, there are lots of things that don't fit. I bet you'll love your single basin, with all of the cooking you do.

I did fit my puppy in it for his first bath!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> WOW!!!


Technically you could wash two Havanese at once providing you had a helper. However, my husband disappears at bath time even faster than the dogs!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Technically you could wash two Havanese at once providing you had a helper. However, my husband disappears at bath time even faster than the dogs!


Pixel is our "roller"...she rolls in ANYTHING that smells bad. To the extent that one of her "pet" names is "Stinky". She is technically Dave's dog, and he takes that seriously. So he has learned to give her quick washes and even blow dries from rolling expeditions. He does duck bob and weave if there is any poopy butt that needs to be dealt with, though... even Pixel's "royal" butt! LOL!


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

krandall said:


> Someone ELSE who understands the importance of a PYTHON!!! When we re-did the kitchen, I tried to explain the issue to the builder and failed. He finally sent me to the plumbing supply place myself. I took the Python connection and told them I wanted a pull-down spray faucet, but that the head had to come off, AND THEN there had to be a way to adapt it to fit the Python. Otherwise, the deal was off. They thought I was crazy. There are only a VERY FEW that will work. But we found one! And they found the proper brass fittings to go from one to the other. I have a LOT of tanks, and they are spread around the living areas of our house. I couldn't survive without my Python. No buckets for me!!!


Those tanks are beautiful!! I miss having my large tanks but right now in my life it's just too much. Maybe when the kiddo is older. I miss having my oscars so much though. I am amazed there are sprayers that work with it!! Python makes life SOOOO much easier when you have large tanks or MTS.



EvaE1izabeth said:


> Have you seen the sinks with the lower partition? I thought that was a great alternative to a completely divided sink! Still fit a big cookie sheet OR a Havanese, but still divided. I wasn't sold on the idea of a farmhouse style sink at first, because I like to have a clean area and a dish area, but then I came across the big workstation sinks where you can use a dish bin in them...
> 
> Maybe what I should do is start setting aside my "saved grooming cash" in an actual envelope!


Hubby wanted a traditional divided sink. With high walls. Sigh. But at least the larger side will make life easier for me . It's not perfect, but it will do!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

krandall said:


> I would caution those of you who have younger dogs/puppies, not to call your dog to you for grooming. It's a great way to ruin your recall! LOL! Just go get them! In fact, I have a friend who stopped all barking in her house by brightly announcing any time any dog barked, "Oh! You must want your nails cut!!!" (then carrying through  )
> 
> As far as nails are concerned, Pixel used to be like Perry. It took Dave holding her wrapped in a towel and practically SITTING on her, and me pulling out one paw at a time to get her nails clipped. Then I switched to the Dremel. It took a while for her to get to trust it, and I won't say she loves it, but I can do her completely by myself, with her just on the grooming table in a grooming loop.
> 
> I can't tell you how much persisting, and learning to use a Dremel WELL has changed the lives of both my dogs and myself. It is no longer stressful for any of us. As a result, I do it more frequently, and as a result, they have consistently shorter nails.


What tip do you use for the Dremel?


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Pixel is our "roller"...she rolls in ANYTHING that smells bad. To the extent that one of her "pet" names is "Stinky". She is technically Dave's dog, and he takes that seriously. So he has learned to give her quick washes and even blow dries from rolling expeditions. He does duck bob and weave if there is any poopy butt that needs to be dealt with, though... even Pixel's "royal" butt! LOL!


That is hilarious. My husband will not get anywhere near a poopy butt!!! And when the cat hurls up a hair ball...he hands me a roll of paper towels!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Ok, if I had to buy only one brush, would you recommend the wooden pin brush or the fusion brush?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Faithb said:


> What tip do you use for the Dremel?


It's the one that comes with the "pet Dremel" (though you get some of them with the all-purpose "kits" too. Here, I found them separately on Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/Dremel-432...D7TEZSV1J41&psc=1&refRID=2XE1AHNNED7TEZSV1J41


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I got my Ice Slip brush, and I have to say, I LOVE it!!! It's like a fusion between a brush and a good quality comb. The "bristles" are as thick and rigid as the teeth of a comb, but spaced in a brush. They are in a rubberized base, but it is stiffer than the base of a wood pin (or other CC metal pin) brush, so they stand up and don't drag sideways when they go through a thick coat. I can get through Panda's long coat with it and Kodi's dense, shorter coat. 

I am not sure I could break up a mat with it, nor that I would want to... particularly with Panda's show coat, where I try to be very careful not to break any hair if I can avoid it. But I was easily able to work the few small mats I found in the two of them out with a comb after going over them first with the Ice Slip brush. It was easy to FIND the mats with the brush... you here the difference as it moves through the hair immediately when it hits a mat.

So, I am happy to say, I'm glad spent $40 on ANOTHER brush. LOL! I'm actually thinking of getting a second one, because this and a face comb could be all I need for quick "fix ups" before going in the ring at trials. Of course I don't need to buy that in any hurry... I'm not trialing until we get through this horrid virus anyway!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

*Dremel tips*



krandall said:


> It's the one that comes with the "pet Dremel" (though you get some of them with the all-purpose "kits" too. Here, I found them separately on Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/Dremel-432...D7TEZSV1J41&psc=1&refRID=2XE1AHNNED7TEZSV1J41


Thanks!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

krandall said:


> I got my Ice Slip brush, and I have to say, I LOVE it!!! It's like a fusion between a brush and a good quality comb. The "bristles" are as thick and rigid as the teeth of a comb, but spaced in a brush. They are in a rubberized base, but it is stiffer than the base of a wood pin (or other CC metal pin) brush, so they stand up and don't drag sideways when they go through a thick coat. I can get through Panda's long coat with it and Kodi's dense, shorter coat.
> 
> I am not sure I could break up a mat with it, nor that I would want to... particularly with Panda's show coat, where I try to be very careful not to break any hair if I can avoid it. But I was easily able to work the few small mats I found in the two of them out with a comb after going over them first with the Ice Slip brush. It was easy to FIND the mats with the brush... you here the difference as it moves through the hair immediately when it hits a mat.
> 
> So, I am happy to say, I'm glad spent $40 on ANOTHER brush. LOL! I'm actually thinking of getting a second one, because this and a face comb could be all I need for quick "fix ups" before going in the ring at trials. Of course I don't need to buy that in any hurry... I'm not trialing until we get through this horrid virus anyway!


I love it so much. I don't know about REAL mats either. I don't mind breaking them up a little with a brush, just to get the mat further away from the skin before soaking it in the ice on ice dematting and taking it apart slowly with a comb. I've been brushing daily. I almost like this brush better than the brass fusion.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Faithb said:


> Ok, if I had to buy only one brush, would you recommend the wooden pin brush or the fusion brush?


The fusion. As far as pin brushes go.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

I just caught up on this thread, and, 10 pages in, I no longer have any idea what the original subject was. Is it SINKS AND PYTHONS? And I could google this, but it's more fun to ask. Is a Python a really long hose with a nozzle that attaches to a kitchen sink and is used to clean far off fish tanks? Is it used to clean other far off things? Can you please post a photo of your dogs with your Pythons? (That would be another good new thread to start: Dogs and Pythons Photos ...) Shama does not live with a Python. She does, however, live with a Shark. That is my vacuum that I love. Maybe I should start a thread about Shama's relationship with my Shark ...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> I love it so much. I don't know about REAL mats either. I don't mind breaking them up a little with a brush, just to get the mat further away from the skin before soaking it in the ice on ice dematting and taking it apart slowly with a comb. I've been brushing daily. I almost like this brush better than the brass fusion.


I don't have a brass fusion, so don't know about that one. Until this one, I've found brushes pretty useless except for fluffing during drying. I've almost exclusively use a comb for "serious" grooming... for 11 years!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> I just caught up on this thread, and, 10 pages in, I no longer have any idea what the original subject was. Is it SINKS AND PYTHONS? And I could google this, but it's more fun to ask. Is a Python a really long hose with a nozzle that attaches to a kitchen sink and is used to clean far off fish tanks? Is it used to clean other far off things? Can you please post a photo of your dogs with your Pythons? (That would be another good new thread to start: Dogs and Pythons Photos ...) Shama does not live with a Python. She does, however, live with a Shark. That is my vacuum that I love. Maybe I should start a thread about Shama's relationship with my Shark ...


Yes, A Python is basically a long sucky thing that takes water out of your aquarium, then pours it back in again, without carrying buckets. Buckets may be OK for a 10G tank, but when you have tanks ranging from 75-125 gallons, and do 50% water changes on them every couple of weeks... It's basically the same thing as a water bed filling hose for people whom remember those.

I don't have any photos of my dogs with them, but I CAN tell you a funny "school" story. Many years ago, I ran a program in the public schools in our district where we put over 30 aquariums in various classrooms. Our "star attraction" was a large display tank in the library of the early elementary school building, which was right across from the principal's office.

I had one particular teacher in that building who was my "partner in crime" in this program when it came to setting up tanks, procuring funding, etc. We were working on this big tank after school hours. We had arranged for the Python company to donate one Python for each building, and the teachers shared them. I called out to my teacher friend, who was working on a tank in another part of the library, "Rena, where's the Python?" The principal's face WHIPPED out of his doorway, with his eyes bugging out of his head!

We had to explain to him, that, no, there was not a gigantic snake loose in the building, waiting to eat the kindergarteners, it was just a hose with green ends. Poor guy, though, I think we took a few years off his life. I KNOW we turned a few more of his hairs grey! LOL!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Too funny!


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

LOL, that is hilarious!! I don’t have my python anymore as I only have a 26 gallon aquarium currently. 

In my condo I had a 90gal with a breeding pair of oscars (the dogs of the fish work - you can train them to do tricks for their food). Then 2 20gal grow out tanks, a 20gallon guppy tank (breeding to feed oscars since feeding live fish would help stimulate the breeding process), and a betta sorority tank. There was no way I was going to lug buckets with all that. 

I keep toying with the idea of getting another aquarium for my office in the basement. 125gal for either a pair of oscars or maybe some fancy goldfish. But my dad is planning on retiring in the next few years and I won’t be working from home anymore (not sure if I’ll try to pick up a retail job or something). So I’m not sure I want to invest in something like that. If I’m not working, I’m on the main floor, which just wouldn’t support that kind of weight and I don’t want to spend all that on a tank no one will enjoy.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

At my house, it’s the opposite. If the poopy butt is too much for a little butt wash and requires a full bath, I hand him to my husband, lol. I used to always groom him afterwards, but he has even started drying him sometimes. It’s a little mind blowing, to be honest. DH is a huge, tough guy, 6’ 5”, and seeing him with little Sundance on his lap with a hairdryer and brush is pretty funny. 

I used to be spoiled by DH cleaning up gross messes, but I think my excuses are running out on that. Our old carpet cleaner broke and DH just got a new one this weekend, the kind where you can take off the smaller part to spot clean small stains. Just yesterday, only a day after we got it, Sundance threw up on the carpet. DH was teasing me that the new one is so much easier to take upstairs, it’ll be so easy for me to do it myself!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Faithb said:


> Ok, if I had to buy only one brush, would you recommend the wooden pin brush or the fusion brush?


It depends on how you groom. I haven't used the fusion, but i think most people would prefer any pin brush to a wooden brush if you're blow drying. If I had to choose, I would definitely choose the wooden pin brush, specifically because my Havanese loves it. I mostly use the comb so the wooden brush isn't intended for me to break up mats, just for quick grooms. DH prefers a metal pin brush, and it sounds like he would really like the fusion, because he feels a comb is awkward in general.

I've added the Ice Slip to my list, though. I have a feeling it could replace my pin brush and I would like it better because it sounds like the pins are more firm.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I have both the ice slip brush and the brass fusion brush. Both are nice but I prefer the brass fusion brush for a few reasons.

1) MAIN REASON: The brass fusion brush removes LOTS more loose hair! I ran the ice slip over Mia and then used the brass fusion brush. The brass fusion picked up lots more hair. To me, removing more loose hair makes combing easier. And loose hair is what tends to cause mats. Of course a comb will remove loose hair too, but I like getting as much loose hair out before combing.

2) The brass fusion brush has pins that are much closer together. I think it is closer to a comb than the ice slip brush and prepares the fur a bit better for smoother combing.

3) The brass fusion brush is static free. Not sure about the ice slip brush. I will have to try it in winter to see.

4) After combing, I like running a brush over Mia to sort of stimulate the oil glands and I think the brass fusion brush does this better, maybe because the pins are closer.

5) The ice slip brush is heavy. I do not mind this but something to consider if anyone has problems with wrists or hands.

I think the ice slip brush could be more useful if a dog is a bit more tangly. It will likely go through a tangly coat a bit better. Mia is rarely tangly so I don't know.

I will continue to experiment by first running the ice slip brush over Mia, followed by the brass fusion brush. I think the difference between the ice slip brush and the brass fusion brush is sort of like the difference between the brass fusion brush and a comb.

To me it is all about doing what needs to be done to make combing easier. For me, the brass fusion brush does this a bit better than the ice slip brush. But both are good and it could depend on your dog's coat.

Just wanted to add...the wooden pin brush has proven to be useless for Mia.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> At my house, it's the opposite. If the poopy butt is too much for a little butt wash and requires a full bath, I hand him to my husband, lol. I used to always groom him afterwards, but he has even started drying him sometimes. It's a little mind blowing, to be honest. DH is a huge, tough guy, 6' 5", and seeing him with little Sundance on his lap with a hairdryer and brush is pretty funny.


Photo, photo, PHOTO!

(You could take the photo from your DH's neck down if you wanted to preserve his privacy, or you could photoshop in a smiley face like some people do ...)


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Sheesh, a few days off and I feel like I fell of the grid too😋 You’ve convinced with your 2 posts Mudpuppymama, I just added the brass fusion brush to my order. Thank you for all the detailed info. I may need an extra one for myself when Fall arrives! Jodie and Cotton roll all over the place throughout the day so the ice slip brush helps with the loose tangles but you’re absolutely right about loose hair. I do need something that will collect as much of that as possible. Also, Jodie has such a profuse coat compared to her puppy hair that I’m already seeing pictures in my mind of her looking like a giant Tribble (sp?)
Oh goodness EvaE1iabeth, I could never groom 3 dogs myself without Ed’s help. He’s more physically diminutive than your guy but he is strong for his size. He can/build fix almost anything around the house but couldn’t care less Jodie’s Lilac or pink bows are when it’s time for her and Cotton to go for a walk with “Dad.“
...and holy cow Karen! When are you building a B & B?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

JaJa said:


> ...and holy cow Karen! When are you building a B & B?


LOL! We stopped taking (horse) boarders 15 years ago, and my son, DIL and granddaughter JUST moved out. We are ENJOYING being empty nesters. We don't want a B&B! LOL!


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Ooookay Karen, actually I’m with you on that. Our youngest is moving out on Saturday-yippeeeee! I’ve been ordering all kinds of things to redo the bonus room and the large bathroom upstairs. Cotton and Jodie have been oh so helpful😆 We love our sons very much but they’re in their mid 20’s so it’s time to move on. Let’s here it for empty nests!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

JaJa said:


> Ooookay Karen, actually I'm with you on that. Our youngest is moving out on Saturday-yippeeeee! I've been ordering all kinds of things to redo the bonus room and the large bathroom upstairs. Cotton and Jodie have been oh so helpful&#128518; We love our sons very much but they're in their mid 20's so it's time to move on. Let's here it for empty nests!


Same here!!! I love them to come home... For Sunday dinner! LOL! (27 and 29... it's time!)

I just had someone in THIS MORNING to give us an estimate on refinishing the floors in the "boy's" two bedrooms. While all the other floors are done, we'd put off redoing those until I was SURE (pretty sure?  ) we weren't going to have any more bounce-backs!!! The rooms are mostly empty of furniture now, so it seems like the perfect time. But yes, I can't WAIT to decorate them the way _I_ want them!!!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

I was browsing the CC site and left an item in the cart. I just received an email for $20 off $100. I’m definitely ordering the fusion brush and buttercomb now!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Faithb said:


> I was browsing the CC site and left an item in the cart. I just received an email for $20 off $100. I'm definitely ordering the fusion brush and buttercomb now!


Awesome! I discovered that if I leave an item in my cart some places will send me a discount to "help" me decide to go through with a purchase! I actually have never tried this intentionally, but it is tempting.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

That’s too funny Karen, I have someone coming out next week for carpet and kitchen floor estimates. Don’t forget before and after pics! Actually I should put it on my calendar so I don’t forget😋
Faith B. I do the same thing. I discovered it accidentally also and honestly, now I do it intentionally if I have a large order. It does help offset some of the shipping charges. Even with free shipping I don’t always trust Amazon with the integrity of some products. I usually order through Cherrybrook but always check both sites before I purchase. Sometimes the prices are less than Amazon so it compensates for shipping cost. Hope you enjoy your new products, my fusion brush is arriving Friday-I can hardly wait!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

I'm beginning to prefer the Ice Slip. LOL. Probably because I brush and comb him daily but he's STILL tangly.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I used the Ice Slip to brush out both Pixel and Kodi during and after blow-dries yesterday. I like it a lot. I only had to switch to the comb for the final "going over" on Kodi, whose hair is longer.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Woods said:


> I'm beginning to prefer the Ice Slip. LOL. Probably because I brush and comb him daily but he's STILL tangly.


For tangles I can see the Ice Slip working better. Mia rarely gets tangled as long as I brush and thoroughly comb her each day. I really try to get those loose hairs down by the skin out which seems to lead to mats. I also work in small sections. Otherwise, I miss some areas.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> For tangles I can see the Ice Slip working better. Mia rarely gets tangled as long as I brush and thoroughly comb her each day. I really try to get those loose hairs down by the skin out which seems to lead to mats. I also work in small sections. Otherwise, I miss some areas.


I think that loose hair might be from her Papillon heritage... some extra shedding. That is a HUGE problem when they are going through adolescent "coat blow", but once they are adult, they shouldn't have all that much loose hair. I get just about NO hair off Kodi and Pixel when I comb/brush them, and that is rarely more than once a week now that they are in puppy cuts. I might do Panda twice a week (more often if I'm taking her someplace) and even with that, I rarely get more hair off of her than I get from brushing my own hair.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

krandall said:


> I think that loose hair might be from her Papillon heritage... some extra shedding. That is a HUGE problem when they are going through adolescent "coat blow", but once they are adult, they shouldn't have all that much loose hair. I get just about NO hair off Kodi and Pixel when I comb/brush them, and that is rarely more than once a week now that they are in puppy cuts. I might do Panda twice a week (more often if I'm taking her someplace) and even with that, I rarely get more hair off of her than I get from brushing my own hair.


I don't either, unless there is a knot or a mat. I do brush daily because it's easier and faster. He's in a long puppy cut.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

mudpuppymama said:


> For tangles I can see the Ice Slip working better. Mia rarely gets tangled as long as I brush and thoroughly comb her each day. I really try to get those loose hairs down by the skin out which seems to lead to mats. I also work in small sections. Otherwise, I miss some areas.


He just won't let me section off his hair. He's only somewhat cooperative!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I think that loose hair might be from her Papillon heritage... some extra shedding. That is a HUGE problem when they are going through adolescent "coat blow", but once they are adult, they shouldn't have all that much loose hair. I get just about NO hair off Kodi and Pixel when I comb/brush them, and that is rarely more than once a week now that they are in puppy cuts. I might do Panda twice a week (more often if I'm taking her someplace) and even with that, I rarely get more hair off of her than I get from brushing my own hair.


That is definitely a possibility. The loose hair is not very much and not all the time, just enough to cause problems in mat prone places like where her legs meet the body and where the harness hits. One reason I may have to comb and brush her more is that I do not bathe her as often as most people seem to.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I think that loose hair might be from her Papillon heritage... some extra shedding. That is a HUGE problem when they are going through adolescent "coat blow", but once they are adult, they shouldn't have all that much loose hair. I get just about NO hair off Kodi and Pixel when I comb/brush them, and that is rarely more than once a week now that they are in puppy cuts. I might do Panda twice a week (more often if I'm taking her someplace) and even with that, I rarely get more hair off of her than I get from brushing my own hair.


With regard to the Havanese and shedding, the following is my understanding which I found online. Is this correct?

"Of course, the Havanese dog's long, silky, human hairlike coat is as unlike the Poodle's fast-growing, coarse, curly coat as possible. And yet both dogs have the same coat trait - a coat that sheds and then traps the great majority of its own shed hair, creating tangles that turn into mats if not brushed out regularly."

This is why I thought removal of trapped loose hair is important which is what Mia seems to have. For example, I never ever find any shedded hair. Only when I groom her.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> That is definitely a possibility. The loose hair is not very much and not all the time, just enough to cause problems in mat prone places like where her legs meet the body and where the harness hits. One reason I may have to comb and brush her more is that I do not bathe her as often as most people seem to.


I have to bathe Panda more often than the two who are in puppy cuts, for sure. I bather her every week - 10 days, while the others can easily go 2-3 weeks. They just FEEL much nicer freshly bathed! With Panda, though, if your goal is to preserve a show coat, (and I DO hope to get her back in the ring someday!) you want to keep it as clean as possible so that it tangles as little as possible, so you lose the very minimum amount of hair during grooming. Especially with light-coated dogs like mine, but even with the ones with really heavy coats, keeping them cleaner makes it MUCH easier to groom them.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> With regard to the Havanese and shedding, the following is my understanding which I found online. Is this correct?
> 
> "Of course, the Havanese dog's long, silky, human hairlike coat is as unlike the Poodle's fast-growing, coarse, curly coat as possible. And yet both dogs have the same coat trait - a coat that sheds and then traps the great majority of its own shed hair, creating tangles that turn into mats if not brushed out regularly."
> 
> This is why I thought removal of trapped loose hair is important which is what Mia seems to have. For example, I never ever find any shedded hair. Only when I groom her.


That is true. But they don't shed NEARLY the amount that a "shedding" breed does. They shed the way we humans shed... a hair or three at a time.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> With regard to the Havanese and shedding, the following is my understanding which I found online. Is this correct?
> 
> "Of course, the Havanese dog's long, silky, human hairlike coat is as unlike the Poodle's fast-growing, coarse, curly coat as possible. And yet both dogs have the same coat trait - a coat that sheds and then traps the great majority of its own shed hair, creating tangles that turn into mats if not brushed out regularly."
> 
> This is why I thought removal of trapped loose hair is important which is what Mia seems to have. For example, I never ever find any shedded hair. Only when I groom her.


My understanding is this is why it's so much worse when they're blowing coat. But after that, most don't shed very much, like Karen described. I don't know if it's because mine has such a dense coat, but he does seem to lose more coat than a lot of Havanese. It's way less than when he was blowing coat, but definitely more than a few hairs a day. The brush does help to trap the hairs better, but the wood brush works just as well for that for me. Or maybe it doesn't, but since I'm combing anyway, between the two i get most of it out.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> My understanding is this is why it's so much worse when they're blowing coat. But after that, most don't shed very much, like Karen described. I don't know if it's because mine has such a dense coat, but he does seem to lose more coat than a lot of Havanese. It's way less than when he was blowing coat, but definitely more than a few hairs a day. The brush does help to trap the hairs better, but the wood brush works just as well for that for me. Or maybe it doesn't, but since I'm combing anyway, between the two i get most of it out.


But he's still quite young. He's not 2 yet, is he? If not, he is still going through some coat change. That's not uncommon.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> But he's still quite young. He's not 2 yet, is he? If not, he is still going through some coat change. That's not uncommon.


He'll be 3 in a couple of weeks. I have noticed that breakage can lead to more breakage, which also means more caught hair. Since his recent trim, grooming is much faster than it was the last time he was this length! Most of what comes out in the comb is white, almost downy hair. If it does turn out he took an extra long time to blow coat and it slows down even more, I would throw a party!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> My understanding is this is why it's so much worse when they're blowing coat. But after that, most don't shed very much, like Karen described. I don't know if it's because mine has such a dense coat, but he does seem to lose more coat than a lot of Havanese. It's way less than when he was blowing coat, but definitely more than a few hairs a day. The brush does help to trap the hairs better, but the wood brush works just as well for that for me. Or maybe it doesn't, but since I'm combing anyway, between the two i get most of it out.


That is interesting. Mia also has a very dense coat but it is kind of fine and a bit silky. Perhaps the fine texture is what causes the wooden pin brush to sort of slide over her fur. If the texture was coarser I would think there would be more "pull". I guess the "pull" i am looking for is what I get out of the fusion brush.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> He'll be 3 in a couple of weeks. I have noticed that breakage can lead to more breakage, which also means more caught hair. Since his recent trim, grooming is much faster than it was the last time he was this length! Most of what comes out in the comb is white, almost downy hair. If it does turn out he took an extra long time to blow coat and it slows down even more, I would throw a party!


I still think of him as one of the forum puppies!!! :laugh:


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> I still think of him as one of the forum puppies!!! :laugh:


Well, we do call him "Puppy!" We always joke we should have named just named him Puppy because we call him that any time he is being cute, which is pretty much constantly.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

I love papillons too. I was back and forth on whether to get a papillon or a Havanese, and eventually chose Havanese because they are a bit sturdier as far as small dogs go. And I think a little cuddlier. But they are so cute and sprightly.


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

Keeper has the DENSEST coat. I’m dreading his coat change.
I might need to try this new brush....


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Wow, this is all so interesting. All 3 of mine are different. Of course you’ve all heard about Jodie (19 months) and her profuse coat. JoJo (15) has always had soft Loose curled hair and 6 months ago Cotton’s (11) fur completely changed to dry and brittle. It use to be wispy and soft. It doesn’t seem to matter how much I comb and brush him, he also has more fine loose hair than ever before. When I get my fusion brush on Friday I’m attacking Cotton first. Then I’ll incorporate it into my 45 point grooming with Jodie. Small sections like Mudpuppymama😋


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Could you recommend a good shampoo and conditioner for my puppy? Thanks


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Faithb said:


> Could you recommend a good shampoo and conditioner for my puppy? Thanks


Until/unless he has a long coat, I really like Chris Cristensen Proline Fair Advantage. It is an all-in-one shampoo and conditioner. So you only have to soap up and rinse once. It hase a lovely mild scent and leaves them feeling clean soft and shiny. It was not conditioning enough for Kodi's profuse coat when he was in full coat, but I even use it on Panda about half the time, and it's all I use on the two in puppy cuts.

It doesn't specifically SAY "no tears" on it, but Ihave seen no sign that it bothers my dogs eyes, even when washing their heads. I've used it on both the girls since they came home. (Didn't know about it when Kodi was a pup!) I buy it in gallon bottles!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I still think of him as one of the forum puppies!!! :laugh:


When waiting for a puppy, time goes S-L-O-W. After you get them, it's warp speed. I cannot believe Mia turned 12 last week! It does not seem possible.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

JaJa said:


> Wow, this is all so interesting. All 3 of mine are different. Of course you've all heard about Jodie (19 months) and her profuse coat. JoJo (15) has always had soft Loose curled hair and 6 months ago Cotton's (11) fur completely changed to dry and brittle. It use to be wispy and soft. It doesn't seem to matter how much I comb and brush him, he also has more fine loose hair than ever before. When I get my fusion brush on Friday I'm attacking Cotton first. Then I'll incorporate it into my 45 point grooming with Jodie. Small sections like Mudpuppymama&#128523;


I think the following video does a great job of explaining how to work in sections so you don't miss anything. Until I watched this I was a "hit or miss" groomer. He uses a slicker but I use the fusion brush instead.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> When waiting for a puppy, time goes S-L-O-W. After you get them, it's warp speed. I cannot believe Mia turned 12 last week! It does not seem possible.


That's for sure! I feel the same way about Kodi!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I think the following video does a great job of explaining how to work in sections so you don't miss anything. Until I watched this I was a "hit or miss" groomer. He uses a slicker but I use the fusion brush instead.


Although he "cheats" by using that Snoopy dog, who never moves a muscle while he's being groomed!  LOL!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Although he "cheats" by using that Snoopy dog, who never moves a muscle while he's being groomed!  LOL!


No kidding! I would like to see this demonstrated on a wiggle worm!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> No kidding! I would like to see this demonstrated on a wiggle worm!


I'll let him demo on Pixel. SQUIRREL!!! LOL!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Faithb said:


> Could you recommend a good shampoo and conditioner for my puppy? Thanks


I will say, that the discussions we're having here about the woes of grooming, don't apply to young puppies. They are EASY to brush and bathe. I use a regular pet store shampoo on Roxie and she smells wonderful. Mats and tangles aren't bad. The worst is making sure poop doesn't get stuck in the fluff around their butt. The biggest goal, IMO, with puppy bathing and blow drying is socializing them to tolerate it. So, while I spend a longer time massaging Oliver to get skin circulation good etc, I do a shorter bath for Roxie. She doesn't like it and I want the experience to be POSITIVE. I use a blowdryer on LOW and have someone hold it while I hold her against my chest. With an adult or an older puppy blowing coat you'd want them COMPLETELY DRY to avoid mats. With Roxie she's going to be okay staying damp. So it's more wanting the grooming session to end on a positive note than reaching the grooming goal. And luckily, puppy coat is easy to work with.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I'll let him demo on Pixel. SQUIRREL!!! LOL!


How about a bucking bronco? Mia is pretty good but only FOR SO LONG! And if I run out of her grooming treats mid-session, heaven forbid - grooming session over!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> With an adult or an older puppy blowing coat you'd want them COMPLETELY DRY to avoid mats. With Roxie she's going to be okay staying damp. So it's more wanting the grooming session to end on a positive note than reaching the grooming goal. And luckily, puppy coat is easy to work with.


That said, it depends on the coat. I often leave mine damp-dry, just to get through the bunch of them. It has never caused matting.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> How about a bucking bronco? Mia is pretty good but only FOR SO LONG! And if I run out of her grooming treats mid-session, heaven forbid - grooming session over!!!


LOL! No treats here until I'm finished! I'll do that while a puppy is learning to be groomed, but the adult dogs just have to suck it up and let me get it done.  (I know, mean "mom"  )


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> LOL! No treats here until I'm finished! I'll do that while a puppy is learning to be groomed, but the adult dogs just have to suck it up and let me get it done.  (I know, mean "mom"  )


I think Mia is still learning to be groomed! I am working on extending the time between treats! Hopefully someday that will be the end of the grooming session.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Havanese puppies are definitely easy to groom. Once Jodie started blowing her coat I switched to CC Spectrum 10. At this point, I’m not sure she’ll ever have less than 50 layers of hair. I recently switched again to CC’s Diamond Series and that has been better than I was anticipating. I use the Miracle Moisture shampoo and conditioner on Cotton as well. Spectrum 10 still works well with the old guy though, JoJo always feels soft and has minimal tangles when he is wet. As Melissa pointed out, after your puppy begins to get an adult coat grooming techniques when bathing are vital to avoid matting. Enjoy that wonderful puppy coat!


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

*An interesting new toy-for me*

I received a new comb today. It's a CC staggered tooth comb. Have any of you ever tried this? It weighs 8 oz so it's much heavier than a standard buttercomb. However, it does seem to work on Jodie and detangles about half her layers at one time. I've never seen or used anything like this so I had my doubts. I'm going to try it again later tonight after Jodie and Cotton roll over the carpets a few more times.


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Thanks for the sharing the grooming, shampoo advice and video link. I had to look up the term blowing coat as I had no idea what it meant, lol. Just two days away from bringing home my baby and Oh boy I have lots to learn!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

JaJa said:


> I received a new comb today. It's a CC staggered tooth comb. Have any of you ever tried this? It weighs 8 oz so it's much heavier than a standard buttercomb. However, it does seem to work on Jodie and detangles about half her layers at one time. I've never seen or used anything like this so I had my doubts. I'm going to try it again later tonight after Jodie and Cotton roll over the carpets a few more times.


Is that the CC 011 comb? It looks like it. That is one of the many tools I bought out of desperation trying to groom Mia. That thing is a "beast"! I know what you mean about heavy. I was afraid if I dropped it on Mia it would knock her out! I understand it is a dematting comb. For Mia is was overkill but it has great reviews and may be great on the right kind of coat. Please let us know how you like it. I think we forum members are doing our part in keeping Chris Christensen in business! I know I have!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Shama doesn't get treats while I'm grooming her, but we do often play or go for a walk when she's done. She always hops down, shakes (often loosening her clip/s to the point where I have to immediately redo them), then looks at me like, "OK, why did I have to look nice? Where are we going? What are we doing? Who are we seeing?"

Shama only gets a full bath when we take her to the groomer, which is every 4 to 5 weeks. She gets a butt bath whenever her poop sticks to her coat which used to happen more when I'd use rich training treats without being smart enough to mix kibble into the rich treats. I only recall giving her a full bath between groomer visits once, the day she discovered the horse manure pile at my agility trainer's farm ...


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## mlg (Feb 23, 2020)

Kenchii has one that can get out some mats without enraging Ellie. I also found an undercoat rake on Amazon which is wonderful for mats but I do have to be very gentle. There are many but I found this one most comfortable in my hand with no rough edges PawsPamper Dual-Use Undercoat Rake - Dematting & Finishing Grooming Tool


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Yay Faithb! Please post baby pics when you can❣
Yes, Mudpuppymama 011 it is. It definitely is overkill for my guys in puppy cuts and with the info you’ve shared I can see it would be overwhelming and Mia thinking “Yikes mama what is that?” 😆 Maybe we should all buy stock in CC. I’m just grateful to have access to people who won’t tell me I’m too obsessed with Havanese and I need help.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

JaJa said:


> I'm just grateful to have access to people who won't tell me I'm too obsessed with Havanese and I need help.


I love this forum ...


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

I second that!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mlg said:


> Kenchii has one that can get out some mats without enraging Ellie. I also found an undercoat rake on Amazon which is wonderful for mats but I do have to be very gentle. There are many but I found this one most comfortable in my hand with no rough edges PawsPamper Dual-Use Undercoat Rake - Dematting & Finishing Grooming Tool


Just don't ever use these undercoat rakes or other commercial dematting tools on a dog you want to show! They rip out and destroy coat! If you're only goal is mat removal, then it's OK.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

JaJa said:


> Yay Faithb! Please post baby pics when you can❣
> Yes, Mudpuppymama 011 it is. It definitely is overkill for my guys in puppy cuts and with the info you've shared I can see it would be overwhelming and Mia thinking "Yikes mama what is that?" &#128518; Maybe we should all buy stock in CC. I'm just grateful to have access to people who won't tell me I'm too obsessed with Havanese and I need help.


I don't think anyone here will ever think you are too obsessed with Havanese! So no need to worry about that!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Is anyone familiar with the CC 507 comb? Another one of my “investments”...:nerd:


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

krandall said:


> That said, it depends on the coat. I often leave mine damp-dry, just to get through the bunch of them. It has never caused matting.


I hope this happens with Roxie. Oliver's does invariably. Granted, maybe his coat will change? He's still young


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

mudpuppymama said:


> Is anyone familiar with the CC 507 comb? Another one of my "investments"...:nerd:


oooh what do you think of this one? I only have one butter comb


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Woods said:


> oooh what do you think of this one? I only have one butter comb


I have several combs and use them all. This may be overkill however.

006, 000, 001 and 507. The 001 is definitely not necessary because the 000 has both coarse and fine. The 507 is probably not necessary either. I am still playing with that one. However, I don't think I could do without the 006 and 000.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> I hope this happens with Roxie. Oliver's does invariably. Granted, maybe his coat will change? He's still young


My guess is that it's at least partly his hair. Their coats really aren't mature until they are close to 3


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I have several combs and use them all. This may be overkill however.
> 
> 006, 000, 001 and 507. The 001 is definitely not necessary because the 000 has both coarse and fine. The 507 is probably not necessary either. I am still playing with that one. However, I don't think I could do without the 006 and 000.


I have several 006's, (and the equivalent size Greyhound feet and face comb) and a couple each of 000's and 001's. (And again, one similar size Greyhound) I like one in my desk, one up in the bed room, one in the "show" grooming bag and of course, the ones at the grooming table. When I only had one of each, I found that the comb I wanted was always not where I needed it! I certainly wouldn't buy them all at once for a puppy, but over time, I've just added to the collection!


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Mudpuppymama and Melissa, I am familiar with the CC 507 comb but it’s described as a teasing comb. Does it work for detangling or dematting also? I just received the 006 recently but it’s too small for Jodie, I’m testing on Cotton and JoJo right now. Also, I love my $10.00 Andis buttercomb. Is the regular CC buttercomb worth the extra $40.00?
I love this forum too❣ Yesterday I told one of my critics that I found a tribe online that’s speak my language. Then I politely intimated that she can mind her own business 😋


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

JaJa said:


> Mudpuppymama and Melissa, I am familiar with the CC 507 comb but it's described as a teasing comb. Does it work for detangling or dematting also? I just received the 006 recently but it's too small for Jodie, I'm testing on Cotton and JoJo right now. Also, I love my $10.00 Andis buttercomb. Is the regular CC buttercomb worth the extra $40.00?
> I love this forum too❣ Yesterday I told one of my critics that I found a tribe online that's speak my language. Then I politely intimated that she can mind her own business &#55357;&#56843;


The CC 507 comb has teeth that are fairly close together and uneven. The teeth are very thin also. It is a very light comb. I got it because I was looking for a comb a little finer than the one I had and this looked like the only one. I would think this comb is not for a super dense coarse coat or for dematting but I really don't know. They say it is a teasing comb but why would you tease your dog's hair? So I am wondering myself what it is for but it works for me as a fine comb and I run it over them lightly after I am done with the other brushing and combing.

As for the Andis comb, I actually have one and it is very good so not sure the CC comb is worth it.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

I only have the 005. Hmm.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Melissa Woods said:


> I only have the 005. Hmm.


I'm a terrible influence, but you might want to try one of the combs with extra fine teeth! I don't know what I'd do without it. You'll probably still prefer brushing overall, but when you do hit a mat, it might help. For me, the closer together they are, the easier it is to get the mat out, because it's usually super fine hair at the center of it.

The 005 is probably great because it's 2 in 1, right? I bet it's great for a puppy, too. I don't think I could do without 001, though.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Haha! I guess that will be my next order. I do use the comb every day too.


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Prior to reading this thread I had purchased an inexpensive slicker brush, pin brush and greyhound style comb from Amazon in preparation for my new little one. Taking your advice and advantage of the CC coupon, I purchased the fusion brush. Now, I just need a dog so I can start using it, lol.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

JaJa said:


> Mudpuppymama and Melissa, I am familiar with the CC 507 comb but it's described as a teasing comb. Does it work for detangling or dematting also? I just received the 006 recently but it's too small for Jodie, I'm testing on Cotton and JoJo right now. Also, I love my $10.00 Andis buttercomb. Is the regular CC buttercomb worth the extra $40.00?
> I love this forum too❣ Yesterday I told one of my critics that I found a tribe online that's speak my language. Then I politely intimated that she can mind her own business &#128523;


Here is the description of the CC 507. Mia's hair is super dense but on the fine silky side. It works great for her but not sure about coarser cottony type coats.

The 507 Chris Christensen Jill Teasing Buttercomb is 8.5-inches, has a 1¼ inch tine from the base with fine density and a staggered type edge finish. The staggered edges of the tines are what makes this comb unique and is great for penetrating dense fine coats from Persian cats or a Coton de Tulear dogs. The comb is featherweight making a delightful comb to run through coats without fatigue. The delicate tines are gentle and great for fine coats preventing hair breakage. It comes in a silver nickel finish that will not chip or rust. About All the Chris Christensen 500 Series Buttercombs: The 500 Series Buttercombs come in three different types a fine/coarse, all coarse and a staggered "teasing" type comb. They are all 8.5 inches long with 1 1/4 inch tines. What sets the 500 apart from the rest of the Buttercombs is the very thin tines and the featherweight making it a pleasure to glide through coats. These combs are great for thin and dense hair of Australian Shepards, Persian Cats and Golden retrievers.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

That’s helpful. Oliver has very thick, fine hair, especially the undercoat. When I use the 005 on those tiny mats they’ll actually slip right through the teeth of the comb and I usually pick them out with my fingers. Which isn’t hard or anything, just describing how fine the hair is near the root. That’s why I have to kind of comb it out while I blow dry and get it really dry or the tiny little hairs will stick together and occasionally mat. If they’re dry it doesn’t happen so easily. His white hair especially is more fine. It reminds me a bit of my kids with ultra fine blond hair that easily tangles


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> The CC 507 comb has teeth that are fairly close together and uneven. The teeth are very thin also. It is a very light comb. I got it because I was looking for a comb a little finer than the one I had and this looked like the only one. I would think this comb is not for a super dense coarse coat or for dematting but I really don't know. They say it is a teasing comb but why would you tease your dog's hair? So I am wondering myself what it is for but it works for me as a fine comb and I run it over them lightly after I am done with the other brushing and combing.


There are a bunch of breeds where they tease hair on various spots to make them look fuller for the show ring... including Havanese. If you watch a class at a big show, you will see at least a few where the hair on their heads has been teased. You can tell because their "headpiece" looks like it is wobbling if the dog turns its head fast, or bounces while gaiting.

It's not allowed under our standard, but a lot gets done at dog shows that isn't really allowed. (Like chalking white markings, filling in missing black pigment with magic marker...  )


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> That's helpful. Oliver has very thick, fine hair, especially the undercoat. When I use the 005 on those tiny mats they'll actually slip right through the teeth of the comb and I usually pick them out with my fingers. Which isn't hard or anything, just describing how fine the hair is near the root. That's why I have to kind of comb it out while I blow dry and get it really dry or the tiny little hairs will stick together and occasionally mat. If they're dry it doesn't happen so easily. His white hair especially is more fine. It reminds me a bit of my kids with ultra fine blond hair that easily tangles


Panda's white parts are more likely to get those tiny mats too. Like you, I usually resrt to taking them out with my fingers. They will even run right through the teeth on a feet and face comb.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> There are a bunch of breeds where they tease hair on various spots to make them look fuller for the show ring... including Havanese. If you watch a class at a big show, you will see at least a few where the hair on their heads has been teased. You can tell because their "headpiece" looks like it is wobbling if the dog turns its head fast, or bounces while gaiting.
> 
> It's not allowed under our standard, but a lot gets done at dog shows that isn't really allowed. (Like chalking white markings, filling in missing black pigment with magic marker...  )


Wow I put lots of effort into preventing mats. Teasing a dog's hair sounds like you are asking for it! The CC 507 is working well on Mia but I will NOT be teasing her hair with it!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Laughing at the dog show cheating lol. I’m so so curious as to what kind of coat Roxie will have. She has more curl, adorable puppy curl. Very shiny and luscious. Last time I saw her mom was when Roxie was 5 weeks old. She’s such a sweet dog; I picked her up, as well as Oliver and Roxie’s dad. Her coat was cut this time (couple of years ago she was in a full coat). She has more curl in the puppy cut. They don’t have TRUE curly hair, but there’s a difference to the amount of wave in her lines, especially the dams. Oliver has a super SOFT coat. He’s cuddly by nature so you just can’t help but touch it. But with short hair, he’s a puff ball. I really only see wave when it’s wet. And I haven’t let him grow past 5 inches or so.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

mudpuppymama said:


> Wow I put lots of effort into preventing mats. Teasing a dog's hair sounds like you are asking for it! The CC 507 is working well on Mia but I will NOT be teasing her hair with it!


Right? Lol. I am definitely going to try this comb. Question about your Yorkie. How is he to groom?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Wow I put lots of effort into preventing mats. Teasing a dog's hair sounds like you are asking for it! The CC 507 is working well on Mia but I will NOT be teasing her hair with it!


LOL! Not something I'd do either!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Woods said:


> Right? Lol. I am definitely going to try this comb. Question about your Yorkie. How is he to groom?


My yorkie is super easy to groom, however I do not have him in full coat. He is in a long puppy cut. Another thing with him...don't need to trim the hair between paw pads!!! He has hardly any hair there! YIKES...Mia has so much hair between her paw pads it is incredible.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Melissa Woods said:


> It reminds me a bit of my kids with ultra fine blond hair that easily tangles


DD has fine, reddish, curly hair. When she was little, it was ultra fine and wavy, and if I didn't dry it she'd have "mats" by the time she got home from school, just like Sundance! Now the texture has matured, but she's determined to keep it long, and it tangles easily. I have gone through all of this with brushes/combs with her hair, too. If she doesn't comb all the way to her ends with a super fine comb, the brush skips right over the tiny knots. It's frustrating because she's at the age where she wants to do it her way, but then I can hear her banging things around in the bathroom because it's not doing what she wants.

She actually really wanted to help groom Sundance. She is really good at combing his face, but at first I thought I would also have her brush his legs each day to prevent mats. It didn't work out because she pulls too hard, but she doesn't even feel she's doing it, which explains a lot about her own hair. She does his face when she gets home from school, and it's really cute. He knows when it's time for the kids to get home and waits in the window. They have a little playtime break together, and she has her snack, so he's a little angel while he waits, and then she does his face and he gets his treat. When it's time for her to get ready for dance, he runs to the door any time she walks by. Sometimes he gets to go in the car so he has to be ready, just in case!

DS tries to "groom" him sometimes. Usually Sundance is more tangled afterwards. But he does lay there and let him do it, at least for a few minutes.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

*Fusion brush-thank you Mudpuppymama!*

You're right, it does help remove more loose hair-even on Jodie! I still have to begin with the ice slip brush or staggered teeth comb but the fusion brush works well after that. Her feet are the worst so I tried the fusion brush between the comb and the slicker brush and it was helpful. If I get to Cotton and JoJo every day I don't need to comb first. Today I began with the brush and it doesn't create static like my other items. Thank you for all the wonderful info you provided (page 11).
Faithb, I think it will be a while before you need much more than a greyhound comb. Of course I personally think you should hang onto the fusion brush also. I originally had a $15.00 slicker brush but then gave into the small curved CC slicker brush. The pins are softer overall but effective. Then I used my arm for testing and those cheap pins were sharp! Although you're right, the first order of business is to actually get your baby&#128518; This forum is the best place for information and questions I've found over the past 15 years.
I think I may need to buy a few more things next month. I have the Karen method. I don't show my dogs but I do have several duplicates of things upstairs just in case I need to comb through something or find a little knot that needs to be snipped. I also have a doggy bag with lots of pockets in my car so i don't have to hunt for everything when we leave town. It also helps to have extra in case I misplace something from the grooming table. Speaking of Karen, I have a question about ProLine Fair Advantage Shampoo. Does it really smell like almond extract? I definitely don't need volume for Jodie but an all in one product would be ideal for JoJo because of his age and condition. I thought you had mentioned that product in one of your posts. 
Happy grooming everyone! The picture below is an example of what a teasing comb might be used for paired with dog hairspray. Someone asked about that a few days ago I think.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

JaJa said:


> You're right, it does help remove more loose hair-even on Jodie! I still have to begin with the ice slip brush or staggered teeth comb but the fusion brush works well after that. Her feet are the worst so I tried the fusion brush between the comb and the slicker brush and it was helpful. If I get to Cotton and JoJo every day I don't need to comb first. Today I began with the brush and it doesn't create static like my other items. Thank you for all the wonderful info you provided (page 11).
> Faithb, I think it will be a while before you need much more than a greyhound comb. Of course I personally think you should hang onto the fusion brush also. I originally had a $15.00 slicker brush but then gave into the small curved CC slicker brush. The pins are softer overall but effective. Then I used my arm for testing and those cheap pins were sharp! Although you're right, the first order of business is to actually get your baby&#128518; This forum is the best place for information and questions I've found over the past 15 years.
> I think I may need to buy a few more things next month. I have the Karen method. I don't show my dogs but I do have several duplicates of things upstairs just in case I need to comb through something or find a little knot that needs to be snipped. I also have a doggy bag with lots of pockets in my car so i don't have to hunt for everything when we leave town. It also helps to have extra in case I misplace something from the grooming table. Speaking of Karen, I have a question about ProLine Fair Advantage Shampoo. Does it really smell like almond extract? I definitely don't need volume for Jodie but an all in one product would be ideal for JoJo because of his age and condition. I thought you had mentioned that product in one of your posts.
> Happy grooming everyone! The picture below is an example of what a teasing comb might be used for paired with dog hairspray. Someone asked about that a few days ago I think.


So happy you like the fusion brush. I remember how happy I was when I started using it! My dogs seem to have loose hair fairly often. Losing hair does not seem to be hurting Mia too much...she still has TONS of hair!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> My yorkie is super easy to groom, however I do not have him in full coat. He is in a long puppy cut. Another thing with him...don't need to trim the hair between paw pads!!! He has hardly any hair there! YIKES...Mia has so much hair between her paw pads it is incredible.


THAT is pure Havanese! LOL!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

JaJa said:


> Speaking of Karen, I have a question about ProLine Fair Advantage Shampoo. Does it really smell like almond extract? I definitely don't need volume for Jodie but an all in one product would be ideal for JoJo because of his age and condition. I thought you had mentioned that product in one of your posts.
> Happy grooming everyone! The picture below is an example of what a teasing comb might be used for paired with dog hairspray. Someone asked about that a few days ago I think.


It doesn't smell like almond extract to me... more like a very light lemon smell.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> THAT is pure Havanese! LOL!


Mia is definitely "high maintenance" compared to my Yorkie! However, since mom now knows better how to groom her she is not so bad.


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