# "Pillowtalk" dogs and others



## marjrc

I wasn't sure where to post this question of mine, but I hope this forum is a good one for queries along this line. Basically, I had some questions about the Pillowtalk dogs, only because Sammy's lineage has so many of them. We're talking great-great-grandparents here, so they're far..... 

I hope Kimberly doesn't mind, but here's a quote of hers, from a certain thread (one I won't mention cuz it's gotten enough attention already! LOL)

"There is a cute bitch showing out here Pillowtalk's Heart of My Heart, who has no Destiny in her pedigree. In fact, I don't know if any of the *Pillowtalk *dogs do, but I haven't looked that closely."

This made me wonder what, if anything any of you might know and where I could get more info on that part of Sammy's heritage.

Also... that Hungarian Havanese Gallery at: http://www.havanesegallery.hu/index_en.php

is where I found the info, but what I dont' understand is this stuff here...

*DEUT. CH Nougat Wuslon Of Zb's: 4.6875%
Pillowtalk's Seda: 1.953125%
Havana's Toreador O'Pillowtalk: 1.953125%
Fillipok: 1.5625%
Pillowtalk's Heartbreaker: 1.5625%
Pillowtalk's Santana: 1.5625%*

This is what shows up when I click on 'pedigree' for Sammy. What do all those numbers mean??

I'm just trying to find out more but not sure what I'm looking at when I do find something! lol

Thanks!


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## Havtahava

No, I don't mind at all. Keep in mind that when you use any kennel name, it doesn't necessarily mean the dogs are related at all. For example, my kennel name is Havtahava, and all the puppies that leave my home will have "Havtahava" in the front of their name; however, even though Ahnold and Rufus both have names with Havtahava in front, they aren't related at all.

So, having said that, Pillowtalk is a kennel name from Germany and Monika Moser is the breeder of those dogs.

The percentages you see at the end of each name are the inbreeding coefficient (COI), which can theoretically range from 0% to 100%, and indicates the probability that the two alleles for any gene are identical by heritage/ancestry.

So, those numbers mean that, out of all his ancestry, Sammy has the most "blood" (genetic material) from *DEUT. CH Nougat Wuslon Of Zb's*, but it is only 4.7%. By the way, DEUT. CH means that he is a German Champion. (Originally said "Dutch", but was taught differently by Suuske below.)

If you go to Piaget's pedigree, you will see that he has a much higher COI because he was the result of a fairly tight linebreeding. His granddam is 12.5% and his grandsire is over 9%.

Can you tell me Sammy's registered name? I'd like to see his pedigree now that you list that. (I could eventually find it with the info you posted, but it would take some looking around to find offspring of offspring.)

Did that help any?


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## Suuske747

Havtahava said:


> (By the way, DEUT. CH means that he is a Dutch Champion.)


Sorry to correct you there, it's the most common mistake made in that respect....Deut. = Deutsch = German = Germany


Dutch = Netherlands' spoken language


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## abuelashavanese

Pillowtalks kennel is in Germany as well.

They have very beautiful and incredible Havanese!

http://www.havaneser.blogspot.com/

http://kleinhunde.blogspot.com/


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## Julie

This is very interesting to me too........Quincy does have Pillowtalk in his pedigree too.I found a pix of one that is so cute--I'd love to cuddle with her:She is DT.JCH,VS'85,ESJ'85 Pillowtalk's Diosa-"Diosa"
I have her photo.She just looks like a fat little Grama to me!Cute!


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## Havtahava

Suuske747 said:


> Sorry to correct you there, it's the most common mistake made in that respect....Deut. = Deutsch = German = Germany


Oh, I am so glad you corrected me on that, Suuske! I was told that several years ago and never thought to question it. Thank you!

AbuelasHavanese, arrrgh! I knew she was in Germany. I was looking through the Havanese Gallery (Hungary) and kept getting sucked back into the Hungarian side of the web site, and typed Hungary by mistake. I'm glad you caught that. I'll go back and edit that part.


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## mckennasedona

What beautiful puppies on those sites. I absolutely love the photo of the white puppy kissing the guy laying behind the tree!! 

I am in definite need of a puppy fix. Unfortunately there are none nearby! Rats!

Susan
PS - Kimberly, aren't you supposed to be up north? Or are you on a wireless connection?


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## Havtahava

I'm not leaving the house for another 45 min or so. We show very late today - almost 3pm.


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## Havtahava

By the way, can I say something that may come across wrong? 
You can't "have Pillowtalk, or any other kennel name, in your dogs." That would be like saying "I have Safeway (or Vons or some other grocery store) in my vegetables." It is just a distributor, not a bloodline. The kennel name just means that is where the dog was bred, and could be completely unrelated to any other Pillowtalk dog. 

However, it would be correct to say that "my dog has a lot of Pillowtalk's Seda" in him. That's a dog's name, and a bloodline represented.

I hope that makes sense.


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## Havtahava

Piage, the name in front of the dog only tells you where the dog was born (usually). So, most likely a dog who has Pillowtalk at the beginning means that he/she was born in Monika's home. Just like most dogs that start with Havtahava are born in my home. But, just because they have "Pillowtalk" at the front, it doesn't mean they are related to yours UNLESS, they specifically have Toreado o'Pillow Talk or Pillowtalk's Cararrba in the name (or one of their immediate offspring).

If you look at my avatar, you will see three different bitches. Tinky and Martha are completely unrelated. However, any puppies born of Tinky, such as Rufus or Piaget, all bear the name Havtahava on the front of them. Likewise, when Martha begins having puppies, so will hers, but none of those puppies will be related to Rufus or Piaget. They will all start with Havtahava, but will not be related. Does that help?


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## marjrc

Thank you so much, Kimberly! I completely understand the kennel name/bloodline thing since you explained it so well.  I've seen you write about this before in reference to some other kennel name. Basically, Sammy has ancestors coming from the Pillowtalk kennel... way back.

Sammy's registered name is *Berill Canis Minor Toddy *and I entered him in the Hung. Gallery site a few days ago to see what would come up. I have the FCI certificate that lists all his ancestors to the great-great grandparents.

I am dying to see pictures of his siblings, IF he had any and IF there are photos available somewhere. His breeder wasn't very helpful and her website has only pics of Sammy's dam and sire posted. I'm just curious, is all!

Thanks for the explanation, Suzanne! I'd forgotten that Deutch was German/Germany.


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## Carol

Is it of any particular significance when the kennel name follows the dog's name? Or if it has 2 different kennel names and reads something like ABC's Puppydog at XYZ?


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## Havtahava

Carol, if the kennel name appears second (or at the end), it usually indicates the kennel that bought the dog or owned/raised it. My Hillary is named _Sedoso Havtahava Dominant Jeans _- Sedoso is her kennel of origin (Hi Greg!) and Havtahava is mine. If I could do it over again, I would have named her Sedoso's Dominant Jeans at Havtahava, but I was trying to play on the "Have to have dominant jeans."


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## Carol

Hmmmm. So is that something that is agreed upon at the time of purchase of the show pup or is it usually something that comes into play if you finish and then breed the bitch.

Thanks so much - these were questions that have been floating around in my fat head for quite a while now!!!!


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## Havtahava

Carol, different breeders require different things. It depends on what is in the contract. I know some breeders that decide the registered name of the dog and you can't change it. (Once a registered name is submitted to AKC, that is the final choice and cannot be altered later.) Some breeders only insist that the registered name start with their kennel and let you do the rest. Some ask that you work with them to decide the name so it can fit in with a theme or their record keeping or whatever. Then there are some that will not let you use their kennel name. LOL! (Don't want anyone to know it is their puppy or whatever.)

It varies greatly among breeders. Ask ahead of time if makes a difference to you.


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## whitBmom

I finally managed to enter all the fields and this is Oreo's Lineage....

http://havanesegallery.hu/pedigree_en.php?id=21474&gen=5

Marj, I am sure Oreo and Sammy are distant cousins.

Can anyone make any sense of the COI and LGD percentages... Its all confusing to me...


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