# Muzzle Staining



## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Timmy has a grooming appt soon, but I thought I would throw this question out there to you guys ahead of time in case I can try to tackle this before then. So I've heard about tear staining, Timmy has a black mask so I don't have that problem, well he might, but I don't see it. I thought his muzzle staining might be due to his raw diet, I wipe his mouth off with a damp paper towel after he eats, but it doesn't do anything. After doing some research I saw that it could be a type of tear staining due to licking and salivating, he's a major drooler, not all the time, but on occasion. I am very hesitant to try peroxide since we all know what that does when ingested, but how about a paste of lemon juice and baking soda? I'm sitting here in the dark with him sleeping on my arm, or I would take a picture. If I hear back from anyone that this option might work I'll take some before and after pictures. Anyone use Angel Eyes on a muzzle? I look at his older pictures and he's got such a clean white muzzle. I'm sure it doesn't help that he's part blood hound when we're out on our walks, but that should clean up with a spot wash.


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

Does he drink out of a bowl? When they drink out of a bowl their face is constantly wet which is a breeding ground for bacteria hence the stains. Switch to a water bottle and this should help prevent it from staining further. 

I like Rosie B. Good's Brighter Than a White Cloud shampoo it is as effective or more so than other whitening shampoos I've used and no fancy method of applying. I do let it sit for a few minutes. Apply it first and then work on shampooing the body..


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Yes water bowl, I never thought of that. Do you think he'll catch on to a water bottle? He had one when he was at the breeder, but that was a long time ago. Perhaps I'll look for a water bottle somewhere, do you use a particular type?


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## Beau's mom (Oct 6, 2011)

Jen -
Beau had a lot of staining around his mouth. It's not a quick fix, but switching him to distilled (purified) water really has made a huge difference. It took about a month to see any change, but in 3 months he was back to white!


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## Regina (Mar 9, 2013)

Lixit water bottle, I have read works really good, not much dripping.


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

Tyler, who has never had muzzle staining, all of a sudden developed it recently. He uses a bowl and always has but now really splashes the water with it dripping off his beard and all over the floor in front of his bowl. I try to remember to wipe his beard but lots of time he drinks without my knowing it, so I switched him over to the distillerd water about two weeks ago. DH says it's getting lighter. I haven't noticed a big change yet but will continue the "treatment", as I hate seeing him with a red beard! A water bottle is out of the question at 16 years old. He's never even seen one, although, having said that, he did learn to use his "handicapped" ramp on the back stairs right away.


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

I'll have to try distiller water, is that like the spring water you buy at the market? I was curios about the water bottle but I also have the cats to contend with so I'm not sure they would transition to a bottle so easily. I have two water bowls, one in the cat's area and one next to Tim's food bowl. Tim drinks out of their bowl a lot since its in the kitchen, the cats don't come near Tim's area I guess they're too high society to go slumming in the dog's bowl. :laugh: Timmy has only recently started with this staining too, he's a sloppy loud drinker between gulping and his tags banging against the bowl. I also heard that stainless steel bowls are a good choice. Trust me if this is the worst thing I have to go through with Tim I'll gladly take it, strictly a cosmetic issue. Next dog might have to be totally dark. ound:


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## Beau's mom (Oct 6, 2011)

No, distilled water and purified water are virtually the same thing, but "spring" water has all the minerals and metals in it -- and that's what causes the staining (supposedly). It's cheapest to buy distilled water in gallons (about $1 at CVS or the grocery store). Or, if your family prefers bottled water, CVS sells their "basics" brand of purified water in a 24-bottle case for about $2.99. _Aquafina_ and _Dasani_ are also "purified." Just read the labels -- it's easy to find.


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Thanks Lorraine, I'm going to Cosco later today I'll have to see if they have something. Do you drink it? Does it taste differently then normal spring water? I don't want to have two kinds of water here especially if one is "Timmy's" water, my family is getting very sensitive that "The Prince" has too many entitlements.


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## Beau's mom (Oct 6, 2011)

My guess is that your family will not be able to tell the difference. I can't.


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Distilled water, purified water, and spring water are not all the same.

*Distilled water* is a type of purified water. It's water that has gone through a rigorous filtration process to strip it not only of contaminants, but any natural minerals as well.

*Purified water* is water that comes from any source, but has been purified to remove any chemicals or contaminants.

*Spring water* is what you often find in bottled water. It's from an underground source and may or may not have been treated and purified.


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## Beau's mom (Oct 6, 2011)

Okay . . . either purified or distilled water works to decrease the staining.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Jen, 
my four drink from a water bottle, and Joey even learned to do so before he went home. 

We have not had problems with mouth staining - and I attribute it to two things. The water bottle, and distilled water! 
My guys have been on distilled water for years! 

I would give it a try.


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## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

it's red yeast that stains the beard more than minerals. My dog also has some staining around her mouth. A groomer/show handler recently told me to put a drop of lemon juice in the drinking water and that it will prevent the yeast from growing when the beard is wet. I just starting doing it a few weeks ago and it's too soon to see if it makes a difference, but she doesn't seem to mind the "splash of lemon" in her drinking water. I also starter using brita filtered water, but don't think filtering the minerals makes much of a difference.


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

He should be able to pick it up quickly. You can stick some peanut butter at the tip of the bottle to entice him to drink from it.

Just using the water bottle makes a huge difference. I just use tap water. My adults have minimal staining. My puppies have no beard staining @ 16 weeks. I started my litter on the water bottle at 3-4 weeks of age and they picked it up in no time.

I love Madan water bottles, no drips. 
http://www.pawmarks.com/store.php?category=Water Bottle Adapters


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Muzzle update.... I switched over to distilled water and it appears to be helping. I really need to start documenting with pictures. I haven't made the jump over to a water bottle yet, that is a bit more involved. I did just take Tim to the groomer and asked her about it. She said that this type of staining has something to do with proteins, not red yeast, hmmmm. I asked what I could do to help things and she said really nothing but she has either heard or seen that if a dog goes on antibiotics that seems to help. I'm not sure what the correlation between proteins and antibiotics are, perhaps there are different reasons for tear/muzzle staining. I heard somewhere that it could also be a pH situation. She said in the same breath that she would never put a dog on antibiotics for something cosmetic like this but that's all she's seen that helps. I asked about remedies like Angel Eyes and she said there is some type of antibiotic in that product, I haven't even looked at the ingredients to confirm but something interesting to ponder. Has anyone else had a pup on antibiotics for something else but helped clear up this red staining? I also have an unrelated question for my vet so I might run this by her too and see what she says, red yeast makes much more sense to me in Tim's case. I'm not concerned with a tear duct bacteria problems since his issue seems to be on his muzzle.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Jenny, Scudder has the same thing. He is a huge drooler. When he was showing I tried bleaching products but they only made it worse and were temporary. They make the hair more porous to pick up more stains quickly.


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Are you insinuating that Timmy is a drooler? ound: I'm not going to do anything drastic about his dirty snout, he's still a cutie, I need something else to worry about but now that my girls are back in school and we're college shopping dirty muzzle will be the least of it.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I have a feeling its the raw meat. Think about it its blood staining his beard. You drop blood on a white shirt its hard to get off. Zoey has the same problem it has been worse with different food. I tried the water bottle and the sisters did learn to drink but the amount they drank was about 1/4 of what they drink from a bowl. Now i just use the bottle on car rides. I know others feed raw maybe they will chime in. Black faced havanese are so much easier .LOL I went to a groomer and she said it was a PH balance thing. She had heard someone giving her dog tomatoes to clear it up. Maddie wouldn't touch the tomato but Zoey liked it. I just haven't been consistent in trying that.
When I give a bath to them I find the face the hardest part to really clean. One thay lick the soap so I don't add much to that area. I'm lucky to just get their faces wet.and rinsed off. I've used products on Zoeys beard and it does work but you have to use it every bath. When I was showing her I got obsessive about the staining. Now we just live with it. Our new food is clearing it up nicely. But its not nearly as good as you raw diet.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I don't believe it's from feeding raw. I know too many people who feed nothing but kibble who have exactly the same problem.

And dark faces are not proof against staining, it just shows less. Kodi has a definite reddish tinge to his facial hair. It's just harder to see because the base color is black.


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## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

jabojenny said:


> Yes water bowl, I never thought of that. Do you think he'll catch on to a water bottle? He had one when he was at the breeder, but that was a long time ago. Perhaps I'll look for a water bottle somewhere, do you use a particular type?


Ellie never used a water bottle no matter how hard I tried and how appealing I tried to make it. She would sometimes "humor" me by giving it a lick. In the end, I felt it was too important for her to drink plenty of water and went back to a SS bowl with filtered water that I use for myself.

I try to dry her face and often she takes on the task by rolling on the oriental carpet, but her white muzzle is stained and I'm not sure what's causing it.


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## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

Beau's mom said:


> No, distilled water and purified water are virtually the same thing, but "spring" water has all the minerals and metals in it -- and that's what causes the staining (supposedly). It's cheapest to buy distilled water in gallons (about $1 at CVS or the grocery store). Or, if your family prefers bottled water, CVS sells their "basics" brand of purified water in a 24-bottle case for about $2.99. _Aquafina_ and _Dasani_ are also "purified." Just read the labels -- it's easy to find.


It has been my impression that as a human, distilled water is not so healthy because we do need many of the minerals in the water. Thus, a good carbon filter that removed the "bad" chemicals is preferred.

However, mineral powders are sold to put back the good minerals into distilled water - that might be the ideal solution.


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## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

Suzi said:


> I have a feeling its the raw meat. Think about it its blood staining his beard. You drop blood on a white shirt its hard to get off. Zoey has the same problem it has been worse with different food. I tried the water bottle and the sisters did learn to drink but the amount they drank was about 1/4 of what they drink from a bowl. Now i just use the bottle on car rides. I know others feed raw maybe they will chime in. Black faced havanese are so much easier .LOL I went to a groomer and she said it was a PH balance thing. She had heard someone giving her dog tomatoes to clear it up. Maddie wouldn't touch the tomato but Zoey liked it. I just haven't been consistent in trying that.
> When I give a bath to them I find the face the hardest part to really clean. One thay lick the soap so I don't add much to that area. I'm lucky to just get their faces wet.and rinsed off. I've used products on Zoeys beard and it does work but you have to use it every bath. When I was showing her I got obsessive about the staining. Now we just live with it. Our new food is clearing it up nicely. But its not nearly as good as you raw diet.


Ellie has been on raw food (Natures Variety) since I got her at two months. Now, at 5 1/2 years, some of the staining seems permanent. But it seems mostly limited to the bottom of her muzzle hair so that after a grooming, a lot of it has been cut away. So clearly, something the hair is in contact with causes the problem.


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## dickli (Jun 19, 2012)

We started using a water bottle (Lixit glass) when we got Zoey, who was our second dog. She used one at the breeder's house, but our older dog had never used one. I put a little peanut butter on the nozzle a few times and he took right to it. I kept a water bowl out for a while, but it didn't take long before it wasn't needed. They have no problem using a bowl at someone else's house. Our older dog has the same coloring as Timmy, and his muzzle stays pretty clean for the most part.


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

I am finally conquering Tyler's stained beard. I tried distilled water for a while but didn't feel it was working. For the last couple of months, I have been wiping his beard dry, each and every time he drinks, as it's the wet that is causing the staining. I also recently began, on his groomer's advice, to paint his beard with a solution of 1/2 distilled water and 1/2 buttermilk, twice a day. Don't know if it's a combination of these two things or just one, but it's working. The red is finally fading. Give it a try.


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Mary that's a strange concoction, I'll have to give it a try, when I can store buttermilk :Cry:!


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

jabojenny said:


> Mary that's a strange concoction, I'll have to give it a try, when I can store buttermilk :Cry:!


It sounded strange to me too, Jen, but she swore that it would work. She even said that I could put a tsp in his food, but I won't do that, as I would rather use it externally.


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## DawnH (Jan 21, 2014)

Buttermilk is supposed to be a home remedy for fading freckles so maybe it works.


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## Deacon Blues (Nov 22, 2013)

In researching tear stains I found myself in both Maltese and Poodle forums where an accepted external approach is bleaching with Polident Whitening denture cleaner. A tablet is dissolved in an applicator bottle. It is blue in color for a bit but the blue does not tint the hair.

I tried it when Rory's staining was severe and it did bleach the stains out and was not harsh or problematic at all. The normal caveats about not squirting it in your dog's eyes apply.

I watched the Grooming 101 video by Darla Potechin of Talemaker Havanese (right hand column) and she warms EZ Groom Whitening Shampoo in her microwave (judiciously I'm sure) then paints it on stained areas with a highlighting brush.

It's a complex subject and there are as many theories as approaches, but these are two I haven't seen discussed here.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Scudder has terrible mouth staining. I just live with it. I don't think that they can get enough water out of those water dispensers. My guys guzzle water after their hikes. I've tried the distilled water and that didnt help. Scudder is a mouth licker so I think that's a lot of the problem.


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## cruzr (Dec 5, 2013)

We started applying raw goats milk to Rosie's muzzle and beard for one week now. It has stopped the bacteria from staining, and her hair is whitening up again. I learned about the raw goats milk from our dog boutique, and purchased it from them. They said a lot of the Maltese owners in our area use it to stop the staining. The enzymes in the milk attack the bacteria that causes the staining. Processed goats milk from the grocery store may not have the same effect.


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## Ruthiec (Jun 18, 2013)

Thanks guys, this is good timing.

Changing Charlie from kibble to freeze dried raw cleared up his tear staining. However I've now changed him to a wet raw diet (premade patties with raw chicken). He literally dances for his food now. However he is also a mouth licker and since I changed, the hair around his mouth has turned ginger. 

Is there any reason to be concerned about this other than cosmetic?


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