# Simba has Lymes



## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

No matter how careful we are or precautions we take, life offers no guarantees. Today I took Simba and Bailey for their one year, annual check-up. I was so proud of them for they were so good and well behaved. Bailey took his rabies vaccination and blood draw with no problems; Simba was not happy, and we were well aware of it when he tried flopping like a fish out of water. He squired so much the needle dislodged when they were drawing his blood, but they got enough to do the heartworm and Lyme testing. Overall, the boys were great and they looked so cute mimic king each other. They were always doing the same thing at the same time. When one sat, the other sat. When one turned his head, the other would turn his head at the same time. One woman commented that they reminded her of bookends. 

At last we are done! We are leaving and the boys are so excited they practically pulled me out the door. We almost made it to the car when the tech came running outside and called my name. I turned around and asked her if I dropped something and she said; "no, Simba has Lyme disease". Let me tell you, she could have hit me with a brick and I would not have been more surprised. Immediately I am thinking "how" they were vaccinated for Lyme's and we do the monthly application for flea and tick protection. Stunned I followed the tech back inside and I am devastated for all I could think about was Rags, my last dog who suffered immensely from LD. I started feeling angry for I took every precaution to protect the boys and I cannot believe this. Nevertheless, no matter what you do there is still a chance they might be exposed to it. 

We are lucky though because we caught it early and starting antibiotics before any symptoms arise, he should be okay. There was a discussion/thread not too long ago concerning the Lyme vaccine and how it is customary in the north to only administer the flea and tick prevention during the warm months. I made a comment in that thread and again today, before I knew about Simba, I was going to start giving it year round for our winters are not as cold as they used to be. The vet and I discussed about the vaccination and the preventative flea and tick medication, and I will continue to administer the medication and get the yearly vaccinations for the benefits outweigh the bad. Rags suffered. Dogs, after being exposed to LD do not develop immunity to it. They can become infected with it again. Below is a great web site explaining LD and ticks. I was shock to learn, it is not the ticks we see that are so dangerous, but the ones we can hardly see that carry the bacteria. 

http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/lyme.html


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*unbelievable...*

its the tiny buggers you don't see...so how do you know if your pet has one? One thing I don't miss about Maryland/Virginia. Although we have ticks here too, just not as many.

Hope all is well with your baby...thank goodness you had them tested!


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Oh, I am so sorry. It's great that you caught it so early and that he will be OK. Thanks so much for the warning.
Carole


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

How good that you happened to get them tested right at the beginning of the infection! I'm so glad for you about that, and sorry that Simba has it at all! Hope all goes well with his treatment!


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Colleen,
I am just glad you caught it early, and you had them tested! Hope all goes well with the treatment


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Colleen I am so sorry to read this but very thankfull it was caught so early. Hugs to you and belly rubs for Simba with hopes that no symptoms arise.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

glad you went and got the test.
can they do it a second time just to make sure if a mistake?
anyway hope Simba will be o-kay


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

I am so sorry to hear Simba has LD but thank goodness that it was caught early. Hope that the treatment works well and he doesn't suffer from any symptoms. Good luck!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

So sorry to hear this Colleen but glad it was caught so early to be treatable. That's worrisome since you did do all of the precautions! I hope he's feeling ok. :hug:


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Colleen, I'm so sorry to hear that. It's sad to know that these things still happen despite our best precautions. I hope Simba gets better quickly. Thank goodness you caught it so early!
Gina


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Colleen, I am so sorry this happened especially since you took all the available precautions. I didn't even know there is a LD vaccination - I am going to call my vet's office today to see about it. I hope Simba does fine and the meds will take care of it without any symptoms arising.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear this Colleen....glad it is being treated.


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## Mraymo (Oct 30, 2007)

So sorry to hear Simba has Lyme. I didn't realize they don't build an immunity and can get it again. What are the long term health problems associated with Lyme when they catch it early? I know my Aunt (who was diagnosed and treated for Lyme) suffers from joint pain even after treatment. Scary that you havd the vaccine and do the monthly treatments and Simba still got it.


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

oh wow, I would have been shocked as well. It's good they caught it early, and I do hope he makes a full recovery!


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Colleen~ How frustrating! :frusty: Here you took all the precautions, did all you could to prevent it yet, Simba still got it! ****! I sure hope he handles the treatment well and gets over it quickly. Hugs to you :hug:


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

So glad you caught the LD early and you could treat it. Keep us posted. 

I need to read up and research the subject to learn more.


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## Milo's Mom (Aug 31, 2008)

Living by the Connecticut shore, Milo gets a yearly Lyme disease booster. I didn't realize he could still get it despite the shot. That's scary!


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## tabby2 (Jan 19, 2009)

Simba is fortunate to have you taking such good care of him. I hope he recovers quickly and with no ill effects.


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## judith (Dec 15, 2006)

colleeen, i am so glad you caught it early. hope it is a speedy recovery.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Two of our puppies have gotten Lyme disease. One 6 or 7 years ago and one 2 or 3 years ago. They both got over it just fine on the antibiotics and we never heard that they had any lasting effects. One was in Conn. and the other in New England too, but I don't remember the state right off.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I'm glad you were able to catch it early enough to treat it! Hope Simba makes a full recovery and quickly.


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

Oh Colleen I am so sorry to hear this. It is so good that you caught it early. I hope there is a full recovery.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Your boys are so cute , and I am so sorry to hear about Simba's LD. But you've caught it early before it's really entrenched and hopefully can knock it back quickly. Try not to fret and enjoy those two little cuties. You have done everything you can, and I bet it must be frustrating.


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## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

I hope the anitibiotics work well. I love the image of the Havanese bookends. I appreicate your post (and the forum in general) because I learn something every time. Lyme disease isn't as big in Colorado but I will mention it to my vet because we are outside a lot and we do travel.


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear about Simba. I think it's going to be rampant this summer. My friend's sheltie down the street has it too. She gives her Frontline every month, but didn't vaccinate her because her other dog got Lyme even though already vaccinated.

I have pulled so many ticks off Gryff already this year.

It's so lucky that you caught it early - even before any symptoms.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm so sorry and yes we do worry anytime something is wrong with our furkids. I hope the meds work great and there are no more problems. Thanks for posting and I will talk to my vet about LD.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I'm going to mention it too. I didn't even know there was a vaccine.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Colleen,

I'm really glad you called our attention to this. I am bringing my "kids" to the vet soon and was going to decline the LD vaccine. Now, I'll surely have the vet give it to them.


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Thank you everyone for all your good wishes and thoughts! I love this forum! Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you, having computer issues. The vet called with Simba's level and it was high so we are on the antibiotic for 3 weeks. The first two days I was so upset, 20 minutes after I gave the pill he would vomit and there would be the pill. The third day I cut the pills into thirds and gave it 3 times a day and he did fine!! 

My vet prefers to give small dogs one vaccination at a time and when we went for the yearly, they vaccinated for the rabies and we are to return next week for the booster for Lyme. When speaking to the vet, I asked if I should bring Simba after he was finished with the antibiotic. Her response was "no, the opposite, we want to give him the booster, without it he has greater chance being infected again with another tick" Holy crap 

I also read a report where only 3 dogs out of 3000 were infected after the vaccine, Poor Simba but so far he has no symptoms. I was speaking with my one neighbor, whom I have not seen since last fall and she has LD. She said before and about 3 weeks after the antibiotic she had horrible, excruciating pain and you felt completely exhausted to the point that they had to put a porta potty next to the bed. It has been 5 months and she is still not up to 100% better. _I_ started wondering why humans could not be vaccinated for LD and I found there was an effected vaccine, but a very low demand for it, so the company stopped making it in 2002. Wondering if they will start making it again since it is so much more prevalent esp. in the northeast states.


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## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

I am so sorry to read this.

My only suggestion is that you might want to join the tick-l list. I know that in many cases, they prefer to give a higher dosage / longer dosage times b/c most of them feel that if all are not killed, then some will go into hiding in the muscles and return with worse symptoms. All I can suggest is that you join, read, and consider their viewpoint, then talk with your vet and make your own mind up. It will be a difficult decision.

http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ticklinks.htm

Oh, and don't forget to start giving probiotics -- and personally, I would give them for a good 6 months after the last of the antibiotics (in fact, we then stay on it a couple times a week from then on).

Again, I am so sorry.....but as everyone else said - I am glad you found it early.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Oh no! Colleen, how terrible. I'm sorry you and poor Simba are faced with this now. I don't know much about Lyme, but I really do hope Simba doesn't suffer from it and that the treatment will be efficient. thank you for sharing this as it will teach many of us things we never would have thought. ((hugs))


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Thank you Margj and Chasza thank you for the web site, I see the information and will ask my vet what she thinks about it. Interesting point of view. Simba is doing great and there is no chage in his mobility for he can still out chase Bailey. The only difference I have noticed is he will lay down more frequently and for longer periods. Simba is only a year old and that will help him to fight this even more. Were ok!


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Simba has been on the antibiotics for almost two weeks. Yesterday DH found a tick on his nose and I noticed that his hind legs are quite swollen. Last night his mobility started decreasing and today he only moves when he has to. I am trying to stay calm about it. On Friday, they had their boosters for the Lyme vaccination. On top of it all Bailey is walking, as if he is hurting, I even had to carry him down the stairs so I started him on Simba's antibiotic until the vet is in tomorrow. I cannot see going to the VET ER for they cannot do anymore than I am doing now. I hope that their symptoms are side effects of the vaccination. I have research and research exhaustively and there are so many different theory's of how to treat and prevent. They are on the Advantage K9 and I want to know why the tick was still alive. I even went and check for an expiration date and it did not have one. I was surprise to see it was made in Germany...funny how educated we have all become. I picked the Havanese for out of all the dogs they had the best health statistics, however, it still does not stop Mother Nature from putting her big nose into it all. I want to scream "I can't do this again" but I know I will for I love them so deeply and they are a part of me. I hope that tomorrow will bring better news and I am upset over nothing. Simba reminds me so much of Rags when he was sick, it is ripping my heart in half. I almost died yesterday when I read an article about dogs that are diagnosed with degenerative disc disease when in fact it is Lyme. I thought I was going to have a heart attack. Rags had Lyme’s and that horrible day we came home and he could not walk, we thought he was having a flare up of the Lyme. We had him to three doctors within 24 hours. His vet said she was sure it wasn't Lyme and it was DGD and we rushed him to the neurologist and he said he thought so too and an MRI would be 2000.00 and if that was the case it would be another 10,000 for the surgery with no guarantee’s and there was the possibility of him healing himself. We went to another vet and same thing. Therefore, we elected not to have the MRI or surgery because of the after care. Rags would be in a crate for 6 months wearing a halo and would need daily enemas and catherizations. Therefore, we elected to do nothing for I did not want him to have to go through that. Then the pain got so bad that we ...... it was hard and I made a decision. What if everyone was wrong? What if it was the Lyme flaring up? What if he is gone for no reason? I am beating myself up left and right for not having the MRI done.
Now I am looking at one dog who has Lyme’s for sure and probably the other one too. And I am sorry that I am in here crying, but my heart is breaking so much and I know there are a lot of other things they could have that could be far worst but they don’t, they are mine and they don’t feel well and in pain and I can’t stand it. And again…..why the hell was that tick alive on Simba’s nose???? DH found another tick on his own leg. This is the pits. It is Sunday and sunny for a change and the boys could have had a great time outside and here we sit looking out the window wishing ……............ok, I am done ranting and it didn't make me feel better.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Oh Colleen, I'm so sorry for all of you! I'm sorry you're all going through this and hope you get some good news from the vet tomorrow.
:hug: to you!!! You'll be in my prayers.


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## Mraymo (Oct 30, 2007)

Sorry they both aren't feeling well. Maybe it's just a reaction to the lyme vaccine. I can relate to your story about Rags. I went thru so much when Ruby was sick and I still sometimes I think could a, should a would a..... It really doesn't help me when I go there so I try not to stay there to long. Was the tick attached to Simba's nose or just on it? I use frontline and I know it doesn't kill them unless the tick bites the dog. Give Simba and Bailey some extra belly rubs for me.


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Thank you, no the d*** thing was attache, DH had to take it off with Tweezers. Looking for the best thing we can applied to the yard....I am petrify every time they go out the door and they are tired of us doing body checks all day long, their hair is so thick you have to separate every quarter inch and it takes a lot of time.


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

oh Colleen I understand how you feel. I went through all those feelings when my Seymore was so sick. Two years of vets and tests and I still don't know what was wrong with him. I hope this is just a reaction to the vaccine booster. I'm sending you spiritual hugs.


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## Miss Paige (Apr 4, 2008)

Colleen:

I am so sorry both "kids" are not feeling good today-and you are doing everything you can for them. If it had not been for your thread I would not have thought to have Paige tested the last time she went to the vet-we got the report back and it's negative-now I will be having the other two tested real soon-we live in the midwest and I swear there are more ticks here-I have all three of mine on Frontline even in the winter when you swear there are no living critters that can get attached to the kids.

I just wanted you to know I am sending you and the "kids" tons of hugs and get well wishes.

Pat (humom to)
Miss Paige
Mr Roman
Ms Frannie


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Colleen,
I am sorry to hear Simba has Lyme. I know in humans, once on the antibiotics, the symptoms get worse. I have Lyme and thought the antibiotics weren't working, because my symptoms got worse and I got new ones. The antibiotics kill the lyme spirochetes, releasing poisons into the bloodstream. This is called a HERX reaction and makes you feel worse before getting better. I hope this is true for Simba. 
I also use the k-9 Advantix. This year I am pulling off live ticks too! I called the company and found out there are some KNOCK OFF"S out there. The real Advantix has an EPA number on the tube. Mine was real, so I still don't know what the deal is. The only thing I can say is, the ticks are abundant this year, because of the mild winter. The company told me I could try putting a drop on their neck, middle of back, and tail. I will try it on the next round.
Hugs and kisses to Simba from the gang.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear about Simba and I hope you get good news.

My vet recommends the Preventic collar for ticks. It will kill and detach them in 24 hours and keep them from getting Lyme. She said it "really works" and for me to put it on Cicero any time he is going to be near woods. http://www.virbacvet.com/preventic/

Colleen, I will say a prayer for you and the boys.!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Colleen, It is terrible reading what you are going through with your sweet little boys!! I'm so sorry! I'll be watching to see what your vet says tomorrow, and I hope it is part of the healing process that will pass soon!

Dale, I'm keeping that info on the tick collar for when we go to the mountains, thanks.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Our vet also told me a lot of people are using the flea and tick collars because it's so bad this year.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Colleen, I am so sorry things are getting worse, and I hope Linda is right about things getting worse before better. I can't believe that you have found a live tick, and I can't imagine why either. I hope someone will be able to give you an answer.I'm so sorry for what you're going through, and I hope today will bring good news!:hug:
Gina


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Good news! Bailey was having side effects from the vaccine! WHEW! I forgot to ask about the collar, I was so worried about the Lyme I forgot to ask. I did read several articles stating not to use more than one type of treatment at one time so I will have to wait until next month to try it. I did ask if Simba was side effects to the vaccine or from being on the antibiotic and since he has been on antibiotic for 2 weeks she felt it was the vaccine. I had both boys outside and they are running and playing with no symptoms! Thank you for all the good wishes and listening to me whine. :ear:


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Oh, what relief!!!!

Yeah!!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

It's a good day here! Bailey & Simba are feeling better, Logan pooed, YEAH!!!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Ay yi yi, what stress! Colleen, I am so very happy to hear there's a good explanation for Simba and Bailey feeling badly, and that it's not a worsening of the Lyme disease. Go ahead and vent, sweetie. We have all had scares and you have so many more reasons than many of us to worry, based on your past experience. Please don't doubt yourself. What's done is done and you did the absolute best you could for Rags. (((hugs)))


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

This totally sucks. i am so sorry for all you have been through and what you are going through. I have no experience so no advice, just know your are in all our thoughts.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

sweater32 said:


> Good news! Bailey was having side effects from the vaccine! WHEW! I forgot to ask about the collar, I was so worried about the Lyme I forgot to ask. I did read several articles stating not to use more than one type of treatment at one time so I will have to wait until next month to try it. I did ask if Simba was side effects to the vaccine or from being on the antibiotic and since he has been on antibiotic for 2 weeks she felt it was the vaccine. I had both boys outside and they are running and playing with no symptoms! Thank you for all the good wishes and listening to me whine. :ear:


2nd post didn't finish reading.

Great
Wonderful
No whines here, just friends talking things through.


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

OH Colleen Thank goodness! I'm so glad they are both feeling better and you have good news.


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

update: Yesterday was the last day for the of 30 days antibiotics. He still doesn't show any signs or synptoms. We go back in three months for recheck. I need to find out what pobiotic(??) I have to find where i read it about it. Good luck Jill....I know it can be heartbreaking, 

How is Cody doing? better I hope!!


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Great news!!!!!:whoo: I'm so glad he's feeling better and showing no symptoms. I am sure the recheck will go smooth, and I know you are relieved that this is all behind you!
Gina


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

Hooray My girls are on FortiFlora for a probiotic


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Good on Simba!!


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Great news on Simba!


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