# Diarrhea and vomiting



## KristenC (Sep 20, 2021)

I spoke to soon. My pup is sick. We just came back from a few days away and my pup vomited and had diarrhea yesterday and today it’s only diarrhea (so far). Gave her chicken and rice with water yesterday. This morning I gave her a little pumpkin. Right now she is resting and she is not herself. 

I’ve run to the vet every time she has been sick. My husband thinks I over do it and I’m over cautious. When is it time to call the vet? How long do I hold off? How much pumpkin do I give her? How much chicken and rice? In the past vet said to give her same amount of chicken and rice as her kibble (2 to 1 ratio) but she seems to be hungry.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I usually give Molly a day or so on a bland diet to see if things start to normalize on their own. Smaller meals are better, even if you have to feed more times a day than you usually do. I would get concerned if my dog was not drinking and urinating enough or if she was acting lethargic. Then I would call the vet for sure.


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## KristenC (Sep 20, 2021)

Molly120213 said:


> I usually give Molly a day or so on a bland diet to see if things start to normalize on their own. Smaller meals are better, even if you have to feed more times a day than you usually do. I would get concerned if my dog was not drinking and urinating enough or if she was acting lethargic. Then I would the vet for sure.


Is your bland diet chicken and rice? How much do you feed?


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Molly had a lot of GI issues when she was younger. I eliminated chicken from her diet. I usually use boiled lean ground beef mixed with rice (although she can have chicken now from time to time). Molly is small, at about 8.5 lbs and eats 1/4 cup of kibble plus a little topper twice a day. When I give her bland diet I don’t measure but just put a comparable amount in her bowl twice a day. I also may give her a tablespoon or so of canned pumpkin with it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I thought you said she was sensitive to chicken? If so, that’s probably not a good idea when she’s sick. I’d switch to lean ground turkey or VERY lean ground beef rather than the chicken. 

Here are my personal “guidelines of tolerance” for going to, or at least CALLING, the vet with GI things. If the dog is ACTING normal, drinking willingly, and willing to eat, AND they vomit only once or twice with no signs of blood and/or the diarrhea is about the same FREQUENCY as normal poop, even if it’s pretty gross, I’ll withhold the first meal after a vomit if it was close to meal time, then feed light meals of ground turkey and sweet potato (it is binding like pumpkin, is easy on the gut like rice, and has a better nutrient profile than rice). I will do this for as long as over the weekend, if the dog seems otherwise well, and symptoms are getting no worse.

Things that would make me contact the vet right away:

The dog seems not to feel well
The dog is not drinking normally, or is not able to keep liquids down (THIS is an EMERGENCY in a small dog!!!)

Frequent or repeated vomiting
Blood or foul smell to the vomit

Diarrhea that lasts more than 24 hours
Diarrhea that is very watery and frequent (more than 3 times a day)
Diarrhea containing either red or black blood ( red blood is actually less alarming unless there is a LOT)
Very foul smelling flatulence and an odd REALLY bad smell to the diarrhea …usually the dog is pretty painful too, but not always (almost sure sign of a Clostridium overgrowth and need of antibiotics)

But my guide line is I’d ALWAYS rather be safe than sorry. I probably wait a bit longer now that I am more experienced, and have more tools in my tool belt, and know what to look for. (And how to take a temperature!) I was much quicker to head to the vet with my first dog, and don’t regret ONE of those calls.


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## KristenC (Sep 20, 2021)

krandall said:


> I thought you said she was sensitive to chicken? If so, that’s probably not a good idea when she’s sick. I’d switch to lean ground turkey or VERY lean ground beef rather than the chicken.
> 
> Here are my personal “guidelines of tolerance” for going to, or at least CALLING, the vet with GI things. If the dog is ACTING normal, drinking willingly, and willing to eat, AND they vomit only once or twice with no signs of blood and/or the diarrhea is about the same FREQUENCY as normal poop, even if it’s pretty gross, I’ll withhold the first meal after a vomit if it was close to meal time, then feed light meals of ground turkey and sweet potato (it is binding like pumpkin, is easy on the gut like rice, and has a better nutrient profile than rice). I will do this for as long as over the weekend, if the dog seems otherwise well, and symptoms are getting no worse.
> 
> ...


Chicken was questionable as her ear infection cleared up during her food transition. Last time she was sick like this the vet told us to do chicken and rice and it did not bother her.

arugh! She has had diarrhea 4 times already.
I called the vet. Waiting for call back


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## Sabrina Henneman (Sep 23, 2020)

I’m pretty sure my vet said a teaspoon of pumpkinm making sure it’s only pumpkin in the can, and not the pure mix with sugar/spices. Addie has had some intermittent diarrhea but she’s a vacuum cleaner outside and I think sometimes we add too much water to her puppy patties when rehydrating. However I’ve started giving her Fortiflora to make sure she’s got good bacteria in her gut too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KristenC said:


> Chicken was questionable as her ear infection cleared up during her food transition. Last time she was sick like this the vet told us to do chicken and rice and it did not bother her.
> 
> arugh! She has had diarrhea 4 times already.
> I called the vet. Waiting for call back


Yeah... I would. They can dehydrate quickly.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I completely get it, it can be confusing! The problem is it shouldn’t have to be so hard! With human healthcare we are still trying to help people understand that we shouldn’t have to be in a position to make a decision about whether or not to go to the doctor. Good healthcare means it’s okay to go as a precaution, even if sometimes it means it feels overkill when the doctor says everything is fine. The idea is that it’s worth the cost of a copay (which in theory is affordable) to be sure in case in case there is a problem the average person wouldn’t recognize. But when we our kids were born and NICU, surgical, and other medical bills cost more than we made in a year, even with insurance, it was really hard not to second guess. I’m in no way trying to make this political because healthcare is complicated, but it took me seeing it firsthand to understand that the purpose of the efforts to make changes to the healthcare system, and make it more accessible, are to stop people from hesitating and just go. How to make that happen, that’s a whole different issue. I finally got comfortable with it and now veterinary care is a completely different thing! Yet our pets are our family members and we want to be safe and also reasonable, and they can’t speak for themselves, which can make it all confusing. The system for pet care isn’t designed to allow people to play it safe, because most people can’t afford to pay frequent $150 vet bills, just in case. When we first brought home our Havanese we could make it work, but it meant sacrificing other things, even with a decent income. So many families do not have extra money! Since we’ve had a Havanese, our opinions on what we would pay for and treat as far as veterinary care have changed, too. Just the other day DH’s friend with young children mentioned he had two $1,000 vet bills related to their dog’s broken leg. They were talking about how both of their families growing up never would have been able to pay veterinary bills like that, and that kind of injury would have meant putting the dog to sleep. 

The point I’ve been taking forever to make is that whatever criteria or standards you decide to set, don’t feel guilty about them when you’re empathizing with your sick pet. It’s hard! Better to be safe than sorry, but it’s also completely reasonable to give it time and use common treatment methods in many situations. You have to do whatever you feel comfortable with! It’s also reasonable to be more cautious with a puppy. Over time we learn more and more about their individual needs, and their immune systems grow, they don’t get sick as often, and we end up feel more comfortable recognizing and managing minor issues when they come up.

I really hope she feels better soon!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yes, there is the monetary side of it too, but I THINK, in this case, she was mostly wondering at what point it was worrisome to the point of "should I call the doctor... The difference between, "My kid has a 99º temp and the sniffles, or my kid has a 104º fever and is coughing so hard he can't catch his breath. One is REALLY not a "need to go to the doc" even if someone might WANT to. The other one is, "you REALLY need to take that kiddo to urgent care if your doc's office isn't open..."

I agree completely that no one should ever feel guilty about making the best decision they can within their financial ability to do so. That will be different for everyone.


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## LWalks (Feb 7, 2021)

SO sorry to hear she’s not feeling well. Karen’s list of ‘reasons to call the vet’ is a great one— for us, the biggest indicator has always been a change in behavior…. It’s what made us go to urgent care when Charlie was diagnosed with IVDD. He didn’t seem sensitive to touch, but was REALLY upset, and I’m so glad we took him in. And years ago, he was limping and looking up with this very plaintive look and couldn’t be comforted, so we took hin to urgent care (he only gets sick/hurt on Sunday’s and holidays 🤣). I was embarrassed when he walked on the foot fine when we first got to the vet, thinking I’d overreacted! But it turned out he had a foxtail infection his paw that had abscessed! So I am a big believer in trusting your gut, as you know your pup best!

Sending healing wishes her way! ❤


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> Yes, there is the monetary side of it too, but I THINK, in this case, she was mostly wondering at what point it was worrisome to the point of "should I call the doctor... The difference between, "My kid has a 99º temp and the sniffles, or my kid has a 104º fever and is coughing so hard he can't catch his breath. One is REALLY not a "need to go to the doc" even if someone might WANT to. The other one is, "you REALLY need to take that kiddo to urgent care if your doc's office isn't open..."
> 
> I agree completely that no one should ever feel guilty about making the best decision they can within their financial ability to do so. That will be different for everyone.


 Definitely! 

This was just my own experience. I related to the husband conversation about going every time, even if the reasons were different, because we had a puppy who was often sick. I think most people who do own Havanese probably don’t have to choose between buying food and going to the vet, because they’re a more expensive dog, and we never had to worry about anything like that. But I did consider the cost each time I took him and it was something I had to sort of figure out how to wrap my mind around. Sundance was also my first puppy so it took time for me to be able to recognize certain symptoms.

I thought your suggestions regarding when to go were helpful. Our vet was good about teaching us what we could do when Sundance had recurring issues. Even if someone plays it extra safe and takes a puppy to the vet more often, it doesn’t necessarily reflect how often they’ll be taken as an adult. And the tolerance level for when to go change with age, too. A 10 week old puppy with diarrhea is different from a 9 month old puppy. A 4 year old adult Havanese with diarrhea from eating pizza is much less worrisome!


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## BoosDad (Mar 8, 2020)

krandall said:


> Yeah... I would. They can dehydrate quickly.


I totally agree with Krandall. Dehydration can be a very serious issue. I would not hesitate to seek veterinary help, if diarrhea/vomiting occurred on more than two or three occasions or over more than one day. I admit that I have always been overly cautious with Boo. I went through my vet bills and realized, during the past 5 years (age 14 to nearly 19), I spent over $17,000 on veterinary care. I feel that it was well worth it, and have no regrets. I always err on the side of caution. It has worked for us as I still have a fairly healthy old man, who will be celebrating his 19th birthday soon. Every day is special with an older Havanese.


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## GoWithTheFlo (Oct 11, 2018)

Poor Charlotte😞 And poor you too, it’s so worrying when they’re poorly and you don’t know what to do for the best. I think you’ve been given great advice from the other posters. Hopefully your phone call from the vet will settle your mind either way of whether to take her in or not. Let us know how she gets on😘


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LWalks said:


> (he only gets sick/hurt on Sunday’s and holidays 🤣).


First rule of pets and vets. 



LWalks said:


> I was embarrassed when he walked on the foot fine when we first got to the vet, thinking I’d overreacted!


Second rule of pets and vets!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Sundance was also my first puppy so it took time for me to be able to recognize certain symptoms.


I read an article that said this is part of the veteran art crunch right now... especially in terms of urgent care. (and I am NOT saying this in regards to Kristen's situation!) But I guess with so many people beib first-time-pet people due to Covid, there are also LOTS of first-time-over-anxious pet people who really don-t KNOW "how sick is sick", and are really TRYING to do the right thing. They are also more likely to let their dog or cat get into trouble, just because they are newbies. The result is a MUCH bigger demand on urgent care services.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Our vet was good about teaching us what we could do when Sundance had recurring issues.


Yes, even if it's something that the vet would want to see the initial time, when the same thing happens over and over, very often, you can develop a plan with the vet on how to manage the problem at home, and when things have escalated to the point of bringing the dog in. We always have Kodi's ear medicine at home because he has had so many ear infections in his life. Only if an infection doesn't clear up after a week of treating THAT way do I need to bring him in to the vet. Likewise for managing his chronic shoulder injury.



EvaE1izabeth said:


> And the tolerance level for when to go change with age, too. A 10 week old puppy with diarrhea is different from a 9 month old puppy. A 4 year old adult Havanese with diarrhea from eating pizza is much less worrisome!


Absolutely! Just as with small children, things that are safe to "wait and see" for a day or two with and adult dog are NOT safe to do that with in a very young puppy. (Like diarrhea beyond a single messy stool) SOMETIMES a phone call is enough. They can give you guideline on what to try and when it's time to bring them in.


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## GoWithTheFlo (Oct 11, 2018)

krandall said:


> First rule of pets and vets.
> 
> 
> 
> Second rule of pets and vets!


Third rule: children will also follow rules One and Two😤


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## KristenC (Sep 20, 2021)

krandall said:


> I thought you said she was sensitive to chicken? If so, that’s probably not a good idea when she’s sick. I’d switch to lean ground turkey or VERY lean ground beef rather than the chicken.
> 
> Here are my personal “guidelines of tolerance” for going to, or at least CALLING, the vet with GI things. If the dog is ACTING normal, drinking willingly, and willing to eat, AND they vomit only once or twice with no signs of blood and/or the diarrhea is about the same FREQUENCY as normal poop, even if it’s pretty gross, I’ll withhold the first meal
> 
> ...





krandall said:


> I read an article that said this is part of the veteran art crunch right now... especially in terms of urgent care. (and I am NOT saying this in regards to Kristen's situation!) But I guess with so many people beib first-time-pet people due to Covid, there are also LOTS of first-time-over-anxious pet people who really don-t KNOW "how sick is sick", and are really TRYING to do the right thing. They are also more likely to let their dog or cat get into trouble, just because they are newbies. The result is a MUCH bigger demand on urgent care services.


This is definitely me!!!!! I accept this as a newbie pet I owner. I just really appreciate the feedback on this forum. The feedback on how bad is bad was very helpful for me.
I spoke to the vet yesterday and they suggested no more bland diet until
The morning. So far she has had two small meals and has kept it all in!

keeping my fingers crossed!


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