# New To The Havanese Breed



## kellybean48 (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi Everyone,

I just joined today and I happened to find your forum while researching seizures in Havanese.

My little Havanese Tucker came from a breeder in Georgia. The website is www.noahslittleark.com, the breeder delivered him to me from GA. 
When we first got him almost immediately it seemed like he was having seizures his legs would cramp up and he was vomiting. Anyways, we went to the vet, ER etc etc. 
They wanted to do a liver test on him, but after a few days from his last episode and his overnight in the doggie ER he seemed much better. (This was during the Thanksgiving week). 
He hasnt had any episode until yesterday when I gave him a bath. 
Tucker is a real shyly, so he seemed extremely stressed out. In the tub, he started the falling over and he lifts his legs up like he has cramps in them.

I gave him some Nutracal- and he hasn't had an episode since. So, I want to propose a question to all of you experienced Havanese owners. 
Has your puppy or dog ever had an episode where it appear his trembling all over and his legs kind of cramp up? Do you think this a seizure?

The testing is extremely expensive the liver test is about $120.00. It's just soo weird he seems fine and then when he gets stressed these episodes happen. I would appreciate any help.


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

OH Kellybean, I am soooo sorry to hear about your poor little baby. I'm sorry that I cannot offer any advice, but you are sure coming to the right place for some. There are so many wonderful, caring and experienced hav owners here. All I can offer right now is a BIG HUG :grouphug:AND my good thoughts and prayers for you and your little guy. All our best!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Welcome to the forum:wave:

I wondered if you had contacted the breeder? I'd definitely let them know what is going on.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I'm sorry to read about Tucker's strange episodes. I'm not familiar with those symptoms at all, but wanted to welcome you to the forum and hope that you get your answers.

This may come across as insensitive, but have you thought about returning him to the breeder if this continues?


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Kimberly, I had the same thought. My breeder has an unconditional guarantee. A dog she breeded was hit by a car and when contacted by the owners she offered them another puppy.

Kellybean...I'd contact the breeder immediately before doing anymore testing. Poor Tucker, I hope he's ok and feeling well.

Welcome to the forum. I'm in GA too. Where are you?


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I just looked at your breeder's site...they offer a money back guarantee or will pay the cost of corrective surgery on one of their puppies. I'd make them the next contact as I would guess you've already grown to love Tucker.


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## kellybean48 (Jan 2, 2009)

Thank you everyone! Tucker and I appreciate your well wishes. 
We did call the breeder. He says that he has never had anything of the sort happen. 
Anyways, he did tell me that he would pay for any testing surgery up the price of the dog, however, a vet has to certify that it's a genetic disorder. Which I understand. 

I'm actually in Tampa Florida, not GA. There are few breeders in Florida and the ones I found didn't have a litter. We thought about giving him back and the breeder was cool with that, but we decided against it. Well I appreciate all of your replies. 

I'm glad to have found this forum !!!


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## carohav (Nov 19, 2008)

I wish you all the luck in the world, and I pray for the health of your baby. I would never presume to tell you what to do, but if this dog does have liver shunt disease, his life will depend on very expensive surgeries. The sooner it's caught the better the out come.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Where are you located in Tampa? I've lived there and still have family in Brandon and Valrico.


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

I too am sorry to hear of this happening to your little guy.

It sounds to me that he may suffer from what we would call a sugar shock. When I raised Pomeranians years ago we would have some of our puppies go into sugar shocks and the would have seizure like symptoms. We thought that it was something like diabetes, but after being checked it was not, though back then we did not do a lot with health testing for animals so we as well as the vets were not sure of what was causing these problems. We always kept the Nutra-cal or honey around at all times, and when they go into the seizures we just put a little on their tongue and and we would hold and comfort them until it passed usually within a couple minutes of getting their sugar they would then be out of the seizure and then would act really whipped for about an hour or so. Is this how your guy would act?
The good news is 9 times out of 10 they would out grow this condition.
I am not saying this is what he has going on, just saying that this is what we would see in our Poms when were breeding them.
I hope you are able to figure out what is going on with him.


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

I found a link about hypoglycemia in toy dogs that might interest you. 
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_toy_breed_hypoglycemia.html
It sounds like the symptoms that you described and gives ideas of possible causes including liver shunts
Here's another link..
http://www.papillonclub.org/Education/hypoglycemia.htm


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

Eva said:


> I found a link about hypoglycemia in toy dogs that might interest you.
> http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_toy_breed_hypoglycemia.html
> It sounds like the symptoms that you described and gives ideas of possible causes including liver shunts
> Here's another link..
> http://www.papillonclub.org/Education/hypoglycemia.htm


Thank you Eva, that was the other word that I was trying to think of was the hypoglycemic (not diabetes). Today is not a good day for my FMS so I was not thinking or should I say could not think.:brick: I hate it when I am in my Fiber Fog:frusty:


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I am so sorry to hear about your poor Tucker. I have never heard of anything like this in Havs, but I agree with everyone else that if it is a liver shunt that you should definitely get it checked out and tested right away. $120 is not too much money when you weigh it against the health of your pup, IMO.

I hope you figure this out soon!


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## kellybean48 (Jan 2, 2009)

Ann- I'm located just outside Tampa in Spring Hill. I'm originally from Allen Park Michigan and my husband is from Grand Rapids. I'm went to school at Grand Valley State University up there. I love it here in Florida ! Don't miss the snow. 
Brandon is just South of us. That's a really nice area. I'm not too familliar with Valrico.

Heather- Thank you!!!! 
After Tucker had the seizure symptoms, he did seem whipped. He went to sleep for about 2 hours. Since the seizures aren't something that occur often and he's not on medications the "sugar shock" you propose, seems pretty accurate. I did give him some nutracal and he seemed better after. I hope that is what it is. He's back to his normal self now "hell on wheels"  LOL


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

I do have to agree with Lina too though. I would have him tested to make sure he doesn't have a liver shunt. $120 really isn't all that expensive and it would be better to have it done and find out if there is a problem with his liver then to find out later and it take his life. Remember what I said with our Poms we never knew what it was and for all we know it may or may not have been some sort of liver problem as we did not do those kinds of test back in the late 70's early 80's.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Heather that was exactly what I was thinking, as I have a friend with a Cocker Spaniel named TUCKER (can you believe it?!) that also has hypoglycemic seizures. I would however have the bile test done. My vet would do it for about $50 so, maybe you just need him tested elsewhere, although I too think $120 is pretty reasonable but to each his own, so don't take that as a judgement call please. Tucker is adorable and welcome to the forum. I am posting a link that I referred my friend to, it is an all natural way of controlling and anticipating an "episode." http://www.purelypets.com/articles/epilepsyarticle.htm


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

I personally have no idea what could be wrong with Tucker, but you've come to the right place. This is such a warm, wonderful group of caring Hav owners here. Welcome aboard!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Welcome Kellybean! My Roxie had a bout of hypoglycemia when she was about 11 weeks old and still at the breeders. Hers occured first thing in the morning and she was unable to hold her head up. She was given IV dextrose (sugar) and recovered well. Roxie has always been small. At that time she was about 2#. Fast forward a few months, and she remained small although she was a good eater. I had her bile acids checked prior to her being spayed and they were elevated. With the support of my breeder, we followed up with more tests and since determined that she has a mild case of microvascular displasia. This is a nonoperable liver diesase, that is managed with medications and diet. Roxie will be 2 in March, weighs 7#, has a ton of energy and is managed on diet alone.

Please have Tucker's bile acids tested. It is a 2 stage test: bile acids are checked after fasting, the dog is fed and bile acids are repeated 2 hours later. Just out of curiosity, how big is Tucker.

In the mean time, I would feed him frequently. Roxie was fed 4 times per day after her hypoglycemic episode.

I can't end this message without commenting on how adorable your little guy is. Welcome again to the forum. Feel free to PM me if you have further questions.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Kellybean,
Welcome to the Forum! You've found a wonderful group of loving, active Hav owners. The advice you've received all sounds good to me, I've got nothing else offer, except to put in my two cents that I'd want your Tucker tested sooner rather than later. And, it might be less expensive in the long run.

I have a Tucker, too!


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Kellybean, I just wanted to welcome you to the forum and wish you the best with little Tucker. (BTW, I grew up in Trenton!)


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

welcome, and get well wishes to your Tucker. He's a handsome little guy from your avatar pic! xxoxoo


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## kellybean48 (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your support. 

Tucker-man has a 01/13/2009 appointment with the vet and I will ask then how to proceed with the liver testing. You are right, what's $120.00 if my little guy could lose his life. Then I would really be sorry.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

Hi Kellybean and Tucker. We're neighbors!! 
I hope all goes well with puppy.

Beth and Pixie Puff


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## Olive25 (Dec 22, 2008)

Welcome! I hope you find out what's wrong and it's nothing too serious. I'm new here too with an 11 week old!


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## momma_raven (Dec 27, 2008)

Welcome Kellybean, Tucker is just adorable!!! I'm new here too and I can tell you that there are a lot of wonderful, caring, helpful people on this forum with a wealth of information about Havs. I will keep you and Tucker in my prayers and hope it's just something he will outgrow.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Good luck with Tucker's testing, hope it all goes well!


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

It sure sounds like hypoglycemia to me, too. When I got Lucy, she only weighed 2# and the breeder and vet told me to have Nutracal ready for her at all times. They told me if she doesn't eat every few hours, she may have the shakes and go into shock (especially when stressed out like at bath time). All was well with Lucy, thankfully, but I guess this is not an unusual problem for small breeds. 

Are you leaving food down for Tucker at all times and making sure he eats at least 3 times a day?


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

Welcome to the forum....and prayers for your little Tucker!


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## JeanMarie (Mar 2, 2008)

Oh what a cutie Tucker is! Welcome!

I'm glad you are getting him tested. Please keep us posted. In the meantime....how about some pictures of your little guy. :biggrin1:


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## Hav a lot of pets (Apr 4, 2008)

When Linus was a baby, he was tiny and had hypoglycemia. The problem is some livers do not regulate sugar at a constant level. I had to keep Nutra-Cal with me at all times. I actually brought Linus in a carrier with me everywhere for two weeks (yes, EVERYWHERE, even church). 

As he grew, he was more able to regulate himself. He has always needed to eat frequently and still grazes. We had his liver tested, and his numbers came back fine. He is just tiny.

My son became jaundiced for about two weeks when he was an infant. Lots and lots of tests. Found out that some organs take a longer time to become fully functioning (they are still forming). I hope this is what you also find out, and that it is nothing too bad.

By the way, now that you have a puppy, I highly recommend adding a line in your budget for vet bills and such. It seems that emergencies occur and never between the hours of 9 to 5! 

Happy 2009 and welcome!

Karen


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## kellybean48 (Jan 2, 2009)

Noah's Little Ark- If only I knew then what I know now. Tucker is 6 years old now. He is my best bud and I love him to pieces, but we have been through a lot. I purchased another Havanese puppy 1 year after I got Tucker (from a different breeder) and the difference between the looks of these two dogs is completely different. When I tell people that they are the same breed they always say how different they look. I know now that he doesn't even look like a Havanese, but I'm ok with that. He's still a cutie pie! They seem to breed their dogs really small comparitively speaking He was diagnosed with seizure disorder in 2011 and he's now on 1 1/2 of phenobarbital 2x a day. We've had to increase it yearly it seems. He does have break through seizures on occasion. When he does it usually ends up a trip to the ER vet or my reg vet as he doesnt' come out of them like he should. Thank god for care credit as I have vet bills on a constant basis as I have to get his liver enzymes and phenobarb levels tested every 6 months or so. Tucker also has subluxation of his knee which hasn't required surgery just yet, but we are careful of him jumping off the couch. My mother also got a dog from this breeder and he has already had surgery on his leg. There is a health guarantee on their website, but these types of problems don't even show up for two + years
I just thought I'd post as it seems there have been quite a few posts out there on this breeder and I wanted to share my experience.


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## Hsusa (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi Kellybean, I just read through this thread. I'm sorry Tucker has had health problems. It sounds like you are really on top of things, though. He looks so cute. I'm curious. You say that Tucker "doesn't even look" like a Havanese. What do you mean exactly?


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