# Havanese or Yorkie or Mini Doxie



## euni (Apr 8, 2013)

Hi I am new to this forum. I am very torn between getting a yorkie or a havanese. I know the differences of the two breeds but I still cannot decide. I am single and live in NYC in a condo building so it's important that I dont have an overly barky dog. I also like minimal shedding mini dogs. I have also considered getting a mini doxie as well.... oh the choices before the final commitment! Your insight and wisdom to help me decide would be much appreciated! Help me please!


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Everyone here is going to tell you to get a Havanese of course! I don't know anything about Yorkies, but all the Doxies I know bark their heads off constantly. Hav's LOVE their people and want you around, I don't leave Tim for more than a few hours without someone being home. Timmy does bark, I won't lie, he is a great watch dog, not guard dog though. Majority of the time he's quiet but he will let me know if someone's at the door. One more thing regardless of the breed choice is to make sure you use an ethical breeder regardless of what you pick. There's a good thread here somewhere on the forum that lists red flags with breeders, some of which I wish I new before I got Timmy, although he's awesome. Also remember that this is a about a 15 year commitment so make sure you're up for that too. I'm sure others will chime in with their two cents.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

IMO, Yorkies are even "barkier" than Doxies. Doxies are probably more protective and less friendly to people outside their families. Yorkies are terriers, even though they are small, and have that terrier tenacity. They are fierce little dogs! Doxies have regular "dog hair", so the definitely smell "doggie" and shed, unlike Havanese. I don't think Yorkies shed so much, but they need regular grooming, just like Havs.

Besides the fact that both breeds tend to be bigger barkers than Havanese, there are other reasons I wouldn't want either breed. Yorkies, in general, are much harder to potty train than Havs. I can't tell you how many I know that have NEVER been reliable in the house. Doxies have more of a "big dog" mentality when it comes to potty training, but they are VERY prone to back problems and nerve damage because of their strange, elongated conformation.

I looked at a LOT of small breeds before choosing Havanese, and I think Havs are a WAY better fit for an apartment dweller. That said, even Havanese bark sometimes, especially as puppies. They are dogs, after all. So you have to be willing to work through that with them.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I am not a fan of the yorkies. They are yappy and hyper. The havanese was my first dog and I couldn't be happier. Can you tell from my avatar??? Good luck!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Hands down. Havanese. I wouldn't even put them 3 breeds in the same catagory, except that they are small... it really depends on what YOU want in a companion dog...


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Havanese are the best small dog you can have. They do love company and will become your best friend very fast.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I want to add, havanese are bred to be with people. They are a companion dog. If you work, you will need to consider getting a dog walker. Havs do not to well when left alone all day long. They can get separation anxiety and will bark their heads off due to the stress of being alone. They are normally not a barky dogs though. Please take this seriously, because a lot of people don't and wind up with an unhappy dog. When I got mine, I considered all the expense that went along with getting a puppy.. My biggest expense is my dog walker/sitter. They are never left for more than 5 hours


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

I have groomed countless yorkies and I can tell you from personal experience I'd say about 20%ish are so high strung that they are very difficult to groom and have to be sedated by the vet or the owner ends up doing it. That and they are notoriously hard to house train. I have a cousin that has yorkies and she's had to put diapers on them. The epitome of a yappy, snappy, fussy and high maintenance little dog. They are at the top of the list of dog breeds I will NEVER own, right up there with Chow Chows, Siberian Huskies, German Shepherds, bully breeds, Shih Tzus and other short-nosed dogs, wheaten terriers, cocker spaniels, and westies/cairn terriers. No offense to anyone with one of these breeds, I have known some really great dogs, but many others with major health and/or temperament issues possibly due to over breeding and the general decline and ruin of the breed.


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## wynne (Apr 30, 2011)

I am not a doxie or yorkie fan!! Havs don't shed. My little Maya is always at my side and is a great companion. She does bark, but not a lot. She only barks when we are out walking and someone doesn't stop to say hello. ound: The only other time is if someone knocks at the door. Another one you might want to consider is a Cavalier spaniel.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

wynne said:


> I am not a doxie or yorkie fan!! Havs don't shed. My little Maya is always at my side and is a great companion. She does bark, but not a lot. She only barks when we are out walking and someone doesn't stop to say hello. ound: The only other time is if someone knocks at the door. Another one you might want to consider is a Cavalier spaniel.


A cavalier king Charles is possibly the sweetest of all dogs, but the breed is one of the sickest. About 50% will develop heart problems and about 30% will have a painful condition where the skull is too small for the brain. This all adds up to a very high chance of expensive medical treatment and heartbreak.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

wynne said:


> I am not a doxie or yorkie fan!! Havs don't shed. My little Maya is always at my side and is a great companion. She does bark, but not a lot. She only barks when we are out walking and someone doesn't stop to say hello. ound: The only other time is if someone knocks at the door. Another one you might want to consider is a Cavalier spaniel.


Cavaliers are adorable, but they'll break your heart. 100% of CKC's have heart disease. It's only a matter of when it expresses itself. A large percentage also have a condition where their brain pushes down into their spinal column, causing intense pain, neurological problems, and finally, death.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

atsilvers27 said:


> A cavalier king Charles is possibly the sweetest of all dogs, but the breed is one of the sickest. About 50% will develop heart problems and about 30% will have a painful condition where the skull is too small for the brain. This all adds up to a very high chance of expensive medical treatment and heartbreak.


I have been told by vet friends that the percentage with heart problems before age 10 approaches 100%. The problems are so severe that the guidelines for responsible breeders is to not even breed dogs who have not reached 5 years of age without health problems. There aren't many breeders who live up to this, as it's a very popular breed. It is such a crying shame that such a beautiful, sweet breed has been overbred to this extent.


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## waybrook (Sep 13, 2009)

Having had a mini doxie for almost 17 years and a Hav for nearly 4 I can speak from experience. The doxie was a shedder from day 1 and it never stopped. My son also has a mini doxie who is 11 & experiencing significant hip problems. We loved our little guy and still miss him terribly, but if you don't want a dog that sheds or barks, IMHO a doxie is not the right choice. 
Panda barks at people outside and when the doorbell rings, but as a rule she is a quiet well behaved girl. She occasionally barks when we leave her, mostly because she thinks she should go EVERYWHERE we go....and there is no shedding - but plenty of grooming!


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

krandall said:


> I have been told by vet friends that the percentage with heart problems before age 10 approaches 100%. The problems are so severe that the guideliamnes for responsible breeders is to not even breed dogs who have not reached 5 years of age without health problems. There aren't many breeders who live up to this, as it's a very popular breed. It is such a crying shame that such a beautiful, sweet breed has been overbred to this extent.


You should watch the BBC documentary about pure breds. The UK has a horrible genetic diversity crisis and many of the ckc breeders are not willing to do the right thing. It showed an affected ribbon winning show dog (tipped off to the filmmaker) being used to make litters. When confronted, the owner denied her dog was affected. A woman campaigning for better breeding standards (after her own dog became seriously ill and having to spend thousands of dollars for medical treatment) was met with animosity and was seen as an annoyance. It's really sad.


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## NvonS (Jul 8, 2010)

Havanese, hands down. I did my research and spend time at the dog park. You couldn't give me a Yorkie.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

My vote before it is too late! Get the Havanese. They do not smell like dogs.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Our Havs are great fun,But I only work part time,so they are not left much.Havs do not like to be with out their owners.Ours also have a lot of exercise,on average an hour a day walk,also they play in our garden.If the weather is appalling they are okay to go without their walk for a couple of days.Our girl Nellie plays all the time with 2 of our cats.Dizzie [other Hav]gets fed up with her playing,he wants a quiet life!


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## euni (Apr 8, 2013)

HavaneseSoon said:


> My vote before it is too late! Get the Havanese. They do not smell like dogs.


That is interesting that Havs do not smell like dogs... What do they smell like?


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## wynne (Apr 30, 2011)

havs don't have that wet dog smell. Love my little girl so much. She is so smart. Can't tell you how much happiness she has brought to our lives.


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## euni (Apr 8, 2013)

wynne said:


> havs don't have that wet dog smell. Love my little girl so much. She is so smart. Can't tell you how much happiness she has brought to our lives.


Thank you for the info. That is great the havs don't have the doggy smell. The only other breed I heard that about were the Italian Greyhounds.


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## euni (Apr 8, 2013)

Also, do you have a preference for a boy or girl Hav? I heard the boys are more loving but I am afraid of the leg lift since I am planning on doing both indoors pee pad as well as walks outside.


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## crabappel (Feb 22, 2012)

Before we got our Havanese a year ago, we had Cavaliers for the past 20 years. They are the most wonderful, sweetest dogs in the world but as everyone has said, they have serious health issues. Both died of heart disease after much suffering. And they do shed. Our Havanese is healthy (so far), smart (almost too smart), doesn't shed (no more allergy shots) & loves everyone & everything.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

I think Havanese are wonderful, but I'm obviously biased. I'm not going to say anything negative about other breeds because I don't think that's fair. I know I've seen threads on other breed forums where people are trying to choose between breeds and list Havanese as one of them, and some of the comments I've seen left about Havanese have really offended me (snappy, growly, vicious, horrible little dogs). Well-bred Havanese are NOT like this.

They aren't perfect for everyone either. Probably the number one complaint you will see from people who haven't properly researched the breed is about their "velcro" quality. Some people find a dog that constantly follows them and wants to be near them annoying. (not all Havs are like this, but I think probably the majority are). Havanese are a social/people breed and want to be with their person/people all the time. 

In general I do think they are a quieter breed, but not all of them are. Mine is a talker and also feels the need to alert me to EVERYTHING!

My boy is the sweetest thing ever and I wouldn't trade him for the world. He's perfect for me, but might not be someone else's cup of tea.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

euni said:


> That is interesting that Havs do not smell like dogs... What do they smell like?


lol, they probably all smell a bit different, but mostly they CAN smell like sweet little fluffy clouds, assuming you bath them every 7-10 days...  
Tillie frequently smells like her food because I have to add quite a bit of water to her food to keep her hydrated! lol


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## Nic (Apr 11, 2013)

Hi. Like most people have said, it depends on what you're really looking for. I am new to having havanese. I've done a lot of research on them and they're supposed to be great family/companion dogs and very smart too. I've had a yorkie before. Her name was Rosalie and she only weighed 3 1/2 lbs. She was adorable and I loved her to pieces but could not get her potty trained. At almost a year old she still wasnt potty trained and my husband and I made the decision to find her a new home. She ruined just about every rug I had in the house. And I'm a stay at home mom, so she was outside all the time, I tried and tried, it was hopeless. I've heard of other people having the same problem. Yorkies are notorious for being hard to train. 
Dachshunds are yappers! My yorkie wasn't much of a barker, but my mom raises dachshunds and they drive me crazy!! Bark, bark, bark! So, if you want something that doesnt make too much noise, I would NOT recommend a doxie! And I am pretty familiar with the breed. My mom has been raising them for years and they're all yappers!! Oh, and dachshund's do shed, fyi. My mom has both smooth coat and long haired doxies and they all shed.
Good luck in whatever you decide!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

euni said:


> Thank you for the info. That is great the havs don't have the doggy smell. The only other breed I heard that about were the Italian Greyhounds.


Actually, that's true of all the short haired sight hounds, as far as I know... IG's, Whippets, Greyhounds and Basenjis.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

euni said:


> Also, do you have a preference for a boy or girl Hav? I heard the boys are more loving but I am afraid of the leg lift since I am planning on doing both indoors pee pad as well as walks outside.


Boys and girls are both loves. There's not a HUGE difference in temperament in this breed... it's more individual personality differences.

As far as leg-lifting is concerned, Kodi is almost 4 and never lifts his leg to pee. He will occasionally mark where other dogs have marked outdoors, but he has NEVER tried to mark indoors. He uses a litter box indoors (he also goes outdoors) and has never lifted his leg in the box. I can't think of a single person on the forum who has had a problem with an indoor male Hav not using their indoor potty appropriately (no leg lifting) if they are trained to it properly and early.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Our Havs are only bathed once every 2 months,and they never smell doggy,which is great.Dizzie our boy who is over 4 years old uses the indoor pee pads if I have to leave them for a long time or it is pouring with rain,he always squats,and when we are out he very very rarely lifts his leg,our little girl Nellie some times lifts her leg/bottom in a very bizarre way!Very hard to say which sex is best as their individual characters vary,but I think the girls can be feistier than the boys,our Nellie is bossier than Dizzie,she is also more playful and puppy like,but she is more demanding of our attention.Dizzie is very loving and gentle he is calmer,but how much of that is down to their sex or character it is hard to say.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

If you got a girl, you wouldn't be disappointed. I got Bella first and actually wanted another girl because she was so easy. I ended up with Fred. Having both, I can tell you the boys are more loving. Bella is loving, but not like my boys. She is more independent and can be bitchy. My 3rd Hav is a boy. I will always buy boys over girls in the future. 

My boys don't mark in my house. They all mark outside including Bella!

This breed is high maintenance in grooming. They need to be combed daily. If you keep them in a puppy cut, they need a haircut every 6-8 weeks. This is also something to consider.


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## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

another option, if you can't decide, is to go to your local rescue organization and see what small, non-shedding, non-barky small dogs they have available for rescue and you might just fall in love with one (regardless of what breed it is).


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

I get a sense they are all barkers.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

gelbergirl said:


> I get a sense they are all barkers.


All dogs of all breeds make some amount of noise. People who can't live with that shouldn't have a dog. Kodi has certain barks he uses to communicate certain things. One short, deep bark means "I need to go out." Deep repeated barks at the door mean "Someone is in the driveway." Looking straight at me and a higher pitched bark (or two) means "I need XXX." (It's my job to figure out what "XXX" is!) But he is NEVER "yappy", and except when he needs to communicate something specific to us, doesn't bark. He's mostly a pretty quiet dog.

Even as an adolescent, when he drove me crazy with his demand barking, it was in ver specific contexts... it was just that I didn't necessarily want to GIVE him what he wanted. He has never been one to bark just to hear himself bark.

Even when I've visited the Kings, who have, I think, 13 Havanese in the house (not counting any puppies) except when someone comes to the door (and then they ALL need to get in the act of letting Pam and Tom know there are visitors!) it's a pretty quiet house.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Since we have had Nellie,Dizzie has become more of a barker if he hears something when in the garden,he thinks he is the protecter.Nellie will join in,though she doesn't really know what she is barking at!They both have a bark when someone comes to the door,but settle down pretty quickly once they know it is alright.We are all bias on this forum,obviously Havs are our first love,but they are all individuals,and you can be blessed with fantastic ones,and some not so great,and what suits one person might not be quite so good for someone else,we are all individuals too!We meet a very sweet long haired miniature Doxie in the park,it is the colour of autumn leaves,and plays well with our two loonies,she is very tiny,and called Maple.


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## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

some dogs bark more than others. My labradoodle is a barker. She likes the sound of her own voice and barks at everything. She barks when she is happy, sad, upset, etc. She barks just to hear herself bark sometimes (just puts her head up and barks with a look of pure glee in her eyes). My havanese on the other hand only barks if she really has something to say. She will bark maybe once or twice a day; if she is really excited with play, if someone comes to the door, if she sees a squirrel in the yard, if she needs to go outside and I have ignored all her more subtle signals, etc. However, i'm not sure you can generalize this to all havanese!


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## euni (Apr 8, 2013)

Thank you all Havanese lovers for your replies. I am sure I want a Hav at this point. If a Hav puppy at 18 weeks weigh less than 2.5lbs, what would be their approximate adult weight? I would love a smaller sized Hav, makes it easier to carry around, especially in the NYC cabs and subways but am not sure if they come smaller than 7 lbs.


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## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

a havanese of that size would not meet the breed standard. they do happen, but sometimes it means they are less healthy.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

be careful with a smaller hav... health issues...
my hav finally hit 10 lbs at 2 1/2 yrs old and it is an okay size to carry when needed...


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## Beau's mom (Oct 6, 2011)

euni said:


> That is interesting that Havs do not smell like dogs... What do they smell like?


I think they smell like whatever shampoo/conditioner used to bathe them!


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Be wary of the very tiny Havs,there could be health issues in the future.


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## tyrak33 (Jun 8, 2012)

I wanted to "weigh" in on what size to look for if you have to carry your Hav around. (Sorry, couldn't resist the pun  I have a rescue boy who is almost 2. He is an sweet natured boy with some health issues that cause him to need to be carried up and down stairs, on and off the couch etc. We take him hiking with our family but we have to carry him a large part of the way. (We do get some weird looks from the big dog crowd. Lol). He is 10 lbs and I carry him with one arm most places. It really does not seem too heavy at all. I would be way more worried about Havs who are bred to be extra small. The high maintenance issues and worries of the health issues are way more of issue than his size carrying him around. He is such a happy, playful little guy. You would never regret getting a Havanese.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## gertchie (Jan 28, 2012)

My guy Ozzie weighs 10 lbs and doesn't have any problem jumping up on the couch, bed, or into the car. We spend a lot of time hiking or running on the beach and he pulls me along...I have never had to carry him. He doesn't mind being held but would rather be on his own. He almost always smells good unless he's really wet and then he usually just smells like grass. He does like to bark when people come to the door or at the neighbors and other dogs but it isn't an uncontrollable barking. I did my research when deciding on my dream dog and havanese won hands down. Ozzie is the love of my life and I wouldn't trade him for the world


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

euni said:


> Thank you all Havanese lovers for your replies. I am sure I want a Hav at this point. If a Hav puppy at 18 weeks weigh less than 2.5lbs, what would be their approximate adult weight? I would love a smaller sized Hav, makes it easier to carry around, especially in the NYC cabs and subways but am not sure if they come smaller than 7 lbs.


Be careful of the small ones. If you are specifically looking for someone who breeds them small, you will wind up with a puppy mill dog/ broker/ BYB. Ethical breeders do not try to breed tiny. The problem with unethical breeders is then the pup might not act like a havanese. Might be scared, barky, hyper etc. They wont have the correct temperament. 18 weeks and 2.5 lbs is a red flag. Havanese are not meant to be less than 7 lbs. If you are looking for smaller than 7 lbs, you should look at another breed.

I have a 7 lb adult havanese. She had a liver shunt. that's why she is so tiny. Cost me 4000.00 to fix.....be careful. Because of her shunt, she has bad teeth so it cost me another couple thousand in dental bills. If you are looking for small, a 9-10lb female would be more realistic. I know a breeder in Pa who is ethical and her pups tend to be this size. I could look up her info if you are interested. I believe good breeders shoot for their pups to be between 10-12 lbs. If you find someone breeding them tiny, they tend to be unhealthy and I bet they don't do all the health testing. Please read the threads on what to look for in a breeder etc. It's worth it to buy from an ethical breeder. I hope I don't come of sounding harsh. I am just trying to save you what I had to go through with bella. good luck!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

If you buy from a reputable breeder, they should be able to give you an idea of how large the dog will get. Not that they are always 100% correct, but they know their lines and a range. Please buy from a breeder that health tests. We have 3 havanese and dogsit many others. The only one I have met smaller than 7 pounds is Linda's Bella who is a liver shunt dog. My smallest is between 9-10 pounds. I have 2 tiny maltipoos that I watch. The family lost their 3rd at 2 1/2 years old. When they breed down to get tiny dogs, they tend to have medical problems.


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## euni (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your replies. I had a maltipoo as well, and I loved her dearly, so I guess I may be trying to replace her but this time around, I want a more loving breed. I did check with their vet and they confirmed that the puppies are very healthy. They are the runts of a litter of 4 and it seems the parents (both normal weight) produced 2 tiny ones before as well.


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## euni (Apr 8, 2013)

lfung5 said:


> Be careful of the small ones. If you are specifically looking for someone who breeds them small, you will wind up with a puppy mill dog/ broker/ BYB. Ethical breeders do not try to breed tiny. The problem with unethical breeders is then the pup might not act like a havanese. Might be scared, barky, hyper etc. They wont have the correct temperament. 18 weeks and 2.5 lbs is a red flag. Havanese are not meant to be less than 7 lbs. If you are looking for smaller than 7 lbs, you should look at another breed.
> 
> I have a 7 lb adult havanese. She had a liver shunt. that's why she is so tiny. Cost me 4000.00 to fix.....be careful. Because of her shunt, she has bad teeth so it cost me another couple thousand in dental bills. If you are looking for small, a 9-10lb female would be more realistic. I know a breeder in Pa who is ethical and her pups tend to be this size. I could look up her info if you are interested. I believe good breeders shoot for their pups to be between 10-12 lbs. If you find someone breeding them tiny, they tend to be unhealthy and I bet they don't do all the health testing. Please read the threads on what to look for in a breeder etc. It's worth it to buy from an ethical breeder. I hope I don't come of sounding harsh. I am just trying to save you what I had to go through with bella. good luck!


Can you send me the breeder contact in PA? Thanks so much!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

euni said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies. I had a maltipoo as well, and I loved her dearly, so I guess I may be trying to replace her but this time around, I want a more loving breed. I did check with their vet and they confirmed that the puppies are very healthy. They are the runts of a litter of 4 and it seems the parents (both normal weight) produced 2 tiny ones before as well.


Just be aware that "runts" are likely to have liver shunts (which is why they stay small) and this doesn't always show up right away. It can be very expensive to fix, and depending on where it is and how complicated it is, sometimes it CAN'T be fixed.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Here is her website,

http://www.wyndwardhavanese.com

She does all the OFFA health testing too


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

krandall said:


> Just be aware that "runts" are likely to have liver shunts (which is why they stay small) and this doesn't always show up right away. It can be very expensive to fix, and depending on where it is and how complicated it is, sometimes it CAN'T be fixed.


I agree....They used to think liver shunts showed up right away, but I know of many showing up later. Bella was 1.5 years old and another forum member I think her pups showed up at 2.5 years old.


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## rachsieg (Mar 9, 2013)

I just got my havanese pup from nychavanese. He is in Queens. I avoided him initially since on this forum they seemed to bad mouth him. My pup is wonderful. Jeff is a no nonsense kind of guy but his dogs are amazing. You are welcome to come and see my pup. I also live in a condo on the ues.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

There are breeds that I admire the looks of and toy with the idea of owning some day (polish lowland, sealyham to name a few), but then I just cannot bring myself to imagine owning anything but a havanese. They are absolute sweetie pies and are guaranteed to make you laugh daily. Perfect-no, but pretty darned close IMO.


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