# Show vs. Pet Breeder



## ophelia (Oct 26, 2014)

Hi everyone,

In my search for a Hav breeder I have come accross a situation that has me a bit torn. There is a local breeder who I really like and trust but she is doesn't show her dogs. She used to show 9 years ago and at least one of the puppies she produced has championed recently. I'm not interested in showing, but do want to do agility (more for fun than intense competition. Lots of positives:

has dogs health checked annually
pups raised in home with family and children
dogs have wonderful temperaments
doesn't 'overbreed' her females
lives close so i can visit pups several times before bringing her home

I think I've done all my homework, have just requested pedigrees of my desired Sire and Dam and she will be providing ASAP. If those check out, I think I'm good to go...

She says she chooses not to show right now because she has a busy family with young teenagers. I can relate.

My only concerns are:


Not all of her dogs health testing is registered with OFFA
Only has 1 sire and 3 Dams

Can anyone speak to these concerns?

Bottom line is that I trust her and feel I have done my research and asked the right questions. Should the fact that she chooses not to show her dogs be an important thing to consider?

Thanks everybody! Appreciate whatever insight you can offer.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

It really would depend on the circumstances. Showing just proves you are breeding to better the breed. If breeders don't show, who know if the pup will look or act like a havanese.

I would consider a pup from someone who didn't show only if everything else was good. The pup would have to be the perfect temperament for me. I would not settle. I would ask to see both parents test results. She should have them. I would also look at both parents. Make sure you like their look and temperament. Also make sure they don't have bowed legs. If she socializes and housebreaks the pups, I would consider her...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yes, the concern I would have is the lack of health testing on the breeding stock. ("yearly health checks" means NOTHING… That's what every responsible pet owner does, even if the dog is a neutered pet!)

Especially if you have any interest in agility, you need, first and foremost, a sound dog with good structure. With a breeder who doesn't show, you need to rely solely on the breeder's word as far as structure is concerned. Without the parents (and preferably several generations) being x-rayed after 2 years of age to make sure they have sound hips, elbows and patellas, you are taking an unnecessarily large chance that you will have a dog that you've fallen in love with, who can't participate in the sport you have chosen without worsening a pre-existing condition.

With the cost of hip, elbow and patella repairs if something goes wrong, I would never, EVER buy a dog from parents who have not been fully health tested. Regardless of the showing issue.

There are PLENTY of "pet quality" dogs produced by "show" breeders who do everything they should. I wouldn't want to encourage the breeding of dogs whose TOP potential is "pet quality".


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## Karen Collins (Mar 21, 2013)

There are a lot of good reasons NOT TO show. But if you choose not to show, then you miss out on the good benefits of showing, like having an "unbiased" exam of your puppies like Linda said.

OTH showing doesn't definitively prove that a dog is breeding material. Plenty of crappy dogs get their championship titles. Honestly, if you enter enough shows, just about any dog can win eventually. I've seen it all too many times. Especially in a semi-rare breed when there isn't always a lot of good competition at different seasons.

If you are looking for a great pet, then make sure that health and temperament is priority one with your breeder. And not just the health of the parents, but also grand and great-grands and aunts and uncles. To the best of your ability. A good breeder can trace their dogs health back multiple generations. 

Then there's puppy development after they are on the ground. Does the breeder do more than just cuddle and love their pups. Do they understand the different developmental stages of a young pup and stimulate and encourage these small windows of opportunity?

You can be as obsessive as you want about choosing a breeder. Bottom-line for me would be, can this breeder support me and my pup for his entire life. How committed is the breeder? Sometimes these are hard things to determine. Ask for references of other owners of her pups. 

You said you feel comfortable with her, so the short answer is no, not showing shouldn't be deal-breaker. Good Luck!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I guess I didn't make it clear enough in my post, but I agree with Karen and Linda… the not showing would not be a deal-breaker for me. The lack of health testing would be. …It would be (for me) even if I "only" wanted a pet. But, IMO, it is CRITICAL if you want an agility dog.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

krandall said:


> I guess I didn't make it clear enough in my post, but I agree with Karen and Linda&#8230; the not showing would not be a deal-breaker for me. The lack of health testing would be. &#8230;It would be (for me) even if I "only" wanted a pet. But, IMO, it is CRITICAL if you want an agility dog.


Me too. The lack of health testing would be a deal breaker for me.


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## Karen Collins (Mar 21, 2013)

Karen R, your post wasn't up when I wrote mine or I wouldn't have responded. What you said was enough.  Without good health and temperament you have a tragedy. And that can't be fully judged in the show ring.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

I won't repeat what everyone else has said, but honestly, I rather have a dog from a no show breeder than a dog with parents that haven't had any health testing. I am not very familiar with the costs, but If you are spending the money to do the health testing necessary for breeding stock, then publishing them with OFFA can't be much more expensive. I have always heard from breeders that the biggest cost is the testing, not registering the results with OFFA.


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## Karen Collins (Mar 21, 2013)

Registering the results does cost less than the tests, but it still adds up quickly especially on multiple tests for multiple dogs. Some tests are done every year like eyes and cardiac. Which is one reason why these guys cost so much. Still its the best practice IMO.


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## ophelia (Oct 26, 2014)

Thanks everyone! All the insight is proving to be extremely helpful!


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