# So...Are some health tests more important than others?



## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

I have come across a few breeders in the past weeks and not all of them do all the tests. i.e. Why? (besides costs)

Breeder # 1 CERF, HEART, Bile acids
Breeder # 2 CERF, PATELLA, BAER, HIPS, HEART
Breeder # 3 CERF, PATELLA

I know HIPS is done after 2 y/o correct? How about other tests, why not do them all?
Thanks!


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I'm not sure why a good breeder would not do all of the tests. Maybe it's because those are the problem areas in their line? Maybe the clinics are far away? It's probably best for you to go with the breeder who does all the health testing, starts housebreaking and socialization. Good luck!


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

The reasons are usually financial I would think. When I was looking for a puppy way back, That was the usual answer. the tests are to exspensive and also its to much $$$ to post them on the sites for the public to view. Especially in this recession? I wonder if less breeders are testing these days?

Ryan


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Beamer said:


> The reasons are usually financial I would think. When I was looking for a puppy way back, That was the usual answer. the tests are to exspensive and also its to much $$$ to post them on the sites for the public to view. Especially in this recession? I wonder if less breeders are testing these days?
> 
> Ryan


Reporting the tests is the cheap part. That's only 20 some odd dollars as a general rule. Getting to the people who do the tests can be expensive if you're in an area where the vets have no clue or there is no vet that does the test. I had my male's hips prelim done and the hips were so badly rotated that even I knew not to send them in. That was 300 for nothing. Then I called every vet within 50 miles of me (beyond that is nothing but open land for a few hours) and when I asked if they did OFA xrays they asked me what that was. I went back to the original vet that did the first rotated hip xray and had another done, another 300. Again the hips were rotated but after spending 600 I had enough and said the heck with it and sent them in to Dr. Keller. I called his office and talked to him the day he evaluated the xray and he said he was sorry, he wanted to give him a rating of good but since the xray was so bad he had to drop him down to a fair. Then he gave me the name of a vet to go to. The vet he told me to use is a 6 hour drive each way plus the time for the xray. I figure since I know for sure his hips are ok, the test can wait until he's in an area where they have vets who know how to xray. 
BAER testing starts at 2 am. An hour to wake up then get the puppies ready, then get in the car and drive to Houston. They only do the test at 9 am so by the time you get to the testing area you're already tired. Then you sit around for a few hours until they finish and make it home late that evening and fall in bed.
CERF is done by a vet that drives down from Houston once a month. Since he's an eye doctor and the only one that anyone has available to them, he takes the people with eye problems first and you're on a waiting list and if he has time, you get an appointment. If he doesn't, you hope you can get in the following month. Then after the report is sent in you wait another month, sometimes longer for the findings to be put on the ofa website.
Elbow xrays? The vets ask you how to shoot them here. How the heck do I know?
So you get a little picture of what it's like to test in some parts of the country. See why I'm so happy about MOVING TO CIVILAZATION?


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

Did the breeders themselves only say they did these, or were these the only tests done on their dogs that show up on offa?

While the X-rays should be evaluated by the OFA vets, many of the other tests can be passed/failed by your normal vet, so the breeder may have just not sent in their tests(there is a fee, but lets be honest, if a breeder cant afford to send in a fee, can they really afford to care for a litter?). Also, for the X-rays, if they are done prelim(before 2 years old) they do not show up on the website.

Although I, and I would think all of the breeders on here, would agree that ALL of the health tests you listed above should be done, and I would add leg-calf-perthes and elbos dysplasia too. JMO


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

AgilityHav said:


> Did the breeders themselves only say they did these, or were these the only tests done on their dogs that show up on offa?
> 
> While the X-rays should be evaluated by the OFA vets, many of the other tests can be passed/failed by your normal vet, so the breeder may have just not sent in their tests(there is a fee, but lets be honest, if a breeder cant afford to send in a fee, can they really afford to care for a litter?). Also, for the X-rays, if they are done prelim(before 2 years old) they do not show up on the website.
> 
> Although I, and I would think all of the breeders on here, would agree that ALL of the health tests you listed above should be done, and I would add leg-calf-perthes and elbos dysplasia too. JMO


Prelims show up on the OFA website if you check the box to release the information


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

# 1 the breeder told me (but I couldn't find it in OFFA.org)
# 2 Is in OFFA
# 3 OFFA and she told me. 

They are all in the same state, maybe within a few hrs drive for one of them.


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> Prelims show up on the OFA website if you check the box to release the information


oh...thats odd then...I thought I checked that box when I had Hailey's done, but hers didnt ever show up on the website....Her brothers were done at the same time, and now that I check, his arn't listed on there either....I went with my girls breeder, and I thought we knew what we were doing...hmm, guess not! (It was the first time I submitted anything to OFA, so Im sure I messed something up sending it in haha)


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Beamer said:


> The reasons are usually financial I would think. When I was looking for a puppy way back, That was the usual answer. the tests are to exspensive and also its to much $$$ to post them on the sites for the public to view. Especially in this recession? I wonder if less breeders are testing these days?
> 
> Ryan


If a breeder is saying they don't have the money to do health testing on the sire and dam, then why are they breeding??? How can one improve the breed if they don't have basic info about the male and female they are breeding?

Just some questions to think about.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

BAER should be done on puppies
CERF should be done annually
Patellas can be certified after they are a year old. 
Cardiac, I get done after they are a year old.
Thyroid, I do the first test after they are a year old and re-test when they are older.
Hips can have a preliminary test when they are a year old (elbows too). The final exam is done after they are two years old. 
The LCP (Legg-Calve-Perthes) can be done after they are a year old, after the prelim hips are done.

I just had two dogs turn a year old and had their CERF, patellas, cardiac, thyroid and hip prelims done. Another dog just had a second birthday and had hips & elbows done. I've spent more than $1000 in three days for health testing, but I'm done until November when I'll have $105 more. That's a small price to pay for verifying the health of my dogs and it is less than the cost of one puppy.

You might want to read more about the health testing on the HCA's web site. There is a reason why they offer awards for various levels of health testing. http://havanese.org/health Obviously, CERF is given a high priority.

If the results of a breeder's health tests aren't on OFA's site, I'd be leary. Give them a few more weeks to post, but if they aren't there, ask why. It doesn't cost much of anything to submit them. It is the actual tests that are the biggest financial hit.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

AgilityHav said:


> oh...thats odd then...I thought I checked that box when I had Hailey's done, but hers didnt ever show up on the website....Her brothers were done at the same time, and now that I check, his arn't listed on there either....I went with my girls breeder, and I thought we knew what we were doing...hmm, guess not! (It was the first time I submitted anything to OFA, so Im sure I messed something up sending it in haha)


I think you also have to initial it. You can call Dr. Keller's office and ask them to look at the paperwork. If you asked that the results be released, they'll fix it.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> The LCP (Leggs-Calves-Perthes) can be done after they are a year old, after the prelim hips are done..


Don't they read the LCP from the hip xray you send in? 
On a different topic, I was told that I went overkill and did LCP and that if the hips are normal that LCP can't be present. Is there any truth to that?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

My vet sends the hip film & application in together, so I just send in LCP after the hip results post. It is no charge to submit it, so it doesn't really make a difference to me. 

I don't know about that, but I don't think it is overkill for you to do it, Jan. It only takes a minute to fill out the form and there is no fee for it other than the stamp at USPS. 

Edited to add: If you want a Top Paw Award as an HCA member, you want to send it in anyway!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

By the way, I goofed and wrote Leggs-Calves-Perthes by accident. It is *Legg*-*Calve*-Perthes. I corrected my post, but it is still quoted with the wrong spelling.


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks Everyone for your answers.
One more question, why some have CHIC # & some don't?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

You cannot get the CHIC number until the dog is two years old and has completed four basic health tests: BAER, CERF (must have been done within the last year), patellas, and hips. Also notice that the Havanese Club of America now encourages more tests than these four.

*PLEASE NOTE: ** A CHIC # does not indicate the dog has passed the tests. It only means the tests were done and submitted. You need to verify the results.*


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks Kimberly. Yes, I checked the results and their pedigree.

Tks.


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

I was goin to start a new thread but I think I'll just post it here..
I was wondering for those who have sent in CERF tests recently if this address is still current? I found tests from '07 that we hadn't sent in yet. Better late than never..

This is the address that was listed on the back of the form:
Purdue University
C.E.R.F/Lynn Hall
625 Harrison Street
West Lafayette, IN 47907-2026

I noticed its not listed on the CERF website.

Thanks


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

No, here is the current address: 
VMDB/CERF
1717 Philo Road
P.O. Box 3007
Urbana, IL 61803-3007

217.693.4800 - you might want to call about the current fees too. 
They are $12/dog for a new CERF, $8/dog for a re-CERF now.


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks! I'm so glad it got delayed sending it out as it would've gone to the wrong address.


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