# Definitely Need Feedback To Make A Decision



## Ollie"s Mom (May 23, 2014)

I need help from you forum gurus and am hoping you have some experience with this or some good suggestions on what I should do. 
Last week I took Ollie in to the vet to have them run a thyroid test. His coat is dry and breaking in one area and he has been gaining weight. In fairness to Ollie we have just gone through an absolutely brutal winter and walking was pretty much impossible most of the time. The really bad weather started in October, (very early) and has just ended now. I think the weight gain had a lot to do with that, I normally walk the boys twice a day. Dry hair has always been a struggle with him, but we live in an extremely dry climate and winter is really bad in that way. Having said all that his thyroid came back normal. We did the full testing too to make sure it would be accurate. Now the vet wants me to put him on Royal Canin Vet Hydrolized Protein Diet. This is my problem. It took a lot of trial and error to find a food he likes and is happy to eat. Bonus Hershey likes it too. They are on Petcurean Now, Grain Free for Small Breed. It is a really good quality food without a lot of stuff I can't pronounce. The vet food, on the other hand, when I read the ingredients the first ingredient was Brewer's Rice and they followed by a whole shwack of things I cannot pronounce. She said she wants to put him on this because she thinks it might be allergies. The thing is he doesn't show any signs of allergies. He has perfect stools no issues with gas or diarhea, he doesn't have an itching problem, no skin irritation and no ear infections. The only thing is his coat. If I change food and he happens to like it and it doesn't make any difference I would want to go back to my own food. The cost is going to be significant on this vet formula and I wouldn't continue if it didn't help. If that was the case I am worried he might not go back to his regular food. My gut is telling me this could be an exercise in futility, but I really don't know. The vet doesn't know either though and she is just trying it. It is not that simple for me with a picky eater that is on a food he really likes. Please everyone give me your opinion. What would you do?


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I am no expert, but I don't like any of the foods recommended by vets, myself. After living with terrible IBD and food sensitivities with my Tucker, I'd not change any food that was working for my dogs! Why experiment? Weight gain is probably exercise related, as you already think. 

How about adding coconut oil for the skin and coat? Or other healthy supplements?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree with Sheri. With no symptoms of allergies, why change food (to a lesser quality food!) just for dry hair. I think I'd try floating his coat in conditioner a few times before switching his food.


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## Ollie"s Mom (May 23, 2014)

Thanks Sheri and Karen. I like the supplement idea, his food already has deboned salmon and omega 3 and 6 oils, but coconut oil is an interesting idea. I would have to be careful so as not to cause loose stools, but I am sure there are formulas for dogs out there. Karen what exactly is floating his coat, I have never heard that expression? Could you expand on it for me please?


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## Layla's Mom (Feb 1, 2016)

I agree with Sheri and Karen, if there is no sign of allergies and he is doing well on his current food, I'd leave well enough alone and look for other remedies. Petcurean (Now) is an awesome company and food! If Ollie likes it and is doing well on it, I wouldn't change. I use the small breed kibble for my heeler and for low value training treats for Layla. I also, really like their canned varieties for my heeler and sometimes Layla. I would also suggest trying coconut oil. Both my dogs get it every day and they both have coats to die for. I give Layla a tiny bit (about 1/4 tsp) on top of her Primal and she eats it right up. You might also try an enzyme/probiotic supplement, if you don't already use one. That would help him to utilize all the nutrients you are feeding him, so he can get the most benefit. I feed mine Honest Kitchens goat milk. It is a dry formula that you add water to. I use it to soften their freeze dried food and it works great, but there are tons of other probiotics out there. I also LOVE Warren London's Hydrating Butter for my dogs. I just rub some all over their coats after grooming or baths and it really keeps their coats shiny and conditioned. I hope some of this helps and good luck.

Amazon.com : Warren London - Hydrating Butter For Dogs Skin & Coat - Guava and mangosteen, Net 8 Fl. Oz : Dog Lotion : Pet Supplies


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## whata_dog (Sep 10, 2015)

No advise on the food- but think the others advice is great. I like the coconut oil idea- I had that on my list but haven't picked any up yet.

In regards to the breaking hair... 
I have a friend that is a hairstylist. My hair at one point was super dry and breaking- she recommended a specific shampoo/conditioner/reconstruct-er that has
hydrolyzed keratin in it. It moisturizers and strengthens the hair. I could tell after using it for a bit that my hair had more elasticity to it and wasn't breaking as much.
Over 25 years later I am still using it and I use it on my daughter who has almost waist length, pretty & shiny hair. 
I actually use the conditioner in a spray bottle watered down on my Lil Hav Girly during combing and love how soft it makes her between baths. I use the conditioner full strength on her when bathing as well. hahah she smells just like me and my daughter when she is done!

Now that you know the history & my train of thought ...

I did a quick google search out of curiosity after reading your post & thinking of dry breaking hair to see if there are actual dog products with hydrolyzed keratin in them and there is a few!
I think I might give this one a try so mine lasts longer! :laugh: It's not cheap! 
https://petology.net/products/keratin-conditioner-spray?variant=27335483014
They have shampoo and conditioner in the same keratin line... and free shipping! I'll try them all and report back.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Petcurean and.some quality EFA . http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=fattyacids


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ollie"s Mom said:


> Thanks Sheri and Karen. I like the supplement idea, his food already has deboned salmon and omega 3 and 6 oils, but coconut oil is an interesting idea. I would have to be careful so as not to cause loose stools, but I am sure there are formulas for dogs out there. Karen what exactly is floating his coat, I have never heard that expression? Could you expand on it for me please?


You bathe the dog, then fill the sink or a tub with warm water, deep enough for the dog to stand with just their head and neck out of the water. You add a good amount of conditioner (of choice, but I like CC Spectrum 10) to the water. Then you stand the dog in the water for about 5 minutes, scooping water up over any exposed parts of the dog. They usually don't mind it, and stand nice and still... I think it feels good! The idea is to let the conditioner really soak into the hair.

You can also get the same results by applying conditioner to the wet dog, wrapping the dog in towels and letting it soak in that way for 5-8 minutes, then back in the sink or tub to rinse. But I don't think the dog stays as warm that way, and mine end up getting squirmy. Plus, then you have towels coated with conditioner, and need a new set of towels is needed after rinsing the dog.


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## Ollie"s Mom (May 23, 2014)

Thanks so much everyone for all the great info. I am going to take your advice. I was definitely feeling the same way, but it is good to have some confirmation that it is the right thing to do. I will let you all know if the coconut oil, conditioning treatments and your advice too Dave makes a difference.


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## Chi-Chi's Mom (Dec 10, 2015)

krandall said:


> You bathe the dog, then fill the sink or a tub with warm water, deep enough for the dog to stand with just their head and neck out of the water. You add a good amount of conditioner (of choice, but I like CC Spectrum 10) to the water. Then you stand the dog in the water for about 5 minutes, scooping water up over any exposed parts of the dog. They usually don't mind it, and stand nice and still... I think it feels good! The idea is to let the conditioner really soak into the hair.
> 
> You can also get the same results by applying conditioner to the wet dog, wrapping the dog in towels and letting it soak in that way for 5-8 minutes, then back in the sink or tub to rinse. But I don't think the dog stays as warm that way, and mine end up getting squirmy. Plus, then you have towels coated with conditioner, and need a new set of towels is needed after rinsing the dog.


I did this on Saturday, not knowing it was a "thing". Usually, Chi Chi looks a scraggly mess a day after bathing so I tried filling the tub more than usual (I didn't think to go up to her neck) to give her something to play with and saturated her in conditioner while we played with a tub toy. Her coat was soft and shiny afterwards and 3 days in she still looks great.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I probably wouldn't change the food. Everyones idea of a spray conditioner is a great. Truffles breeder said it was very important to give salmon oil daily for the coat. I give Scout a Nordics Natural soft gel capsule. Truffles gets Grizzley salmon oil. I try to sneak it in her food. 😉


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Why the two types, Heather? Salmon oil vs. coconut oil for coat, anyone? We've never done either, but maybe we should start?


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## Layla's Mom (Feb 1, 2016)

ShamaMama said:


> Why the two types, Heather? Salmon oil vs. coconut oil for coat, anyone? We've never done either, but maybe we should start?


That's question I have as well. After reading Dave's article (earlier in this thread), I'm also wondering the difference between them, cause I've been giving coconut oil to mine for about a year now. It is way less stinky then the salmon oil though


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## Ollie"s Mom (May 23, 2014)

I actually used to give Ollie the Grizzly Salmon Oil and I stopped because it was adding unneeded weight and I wasn't even giving him the amount he was supposed to get. He also would occasionally have loose stools. I think the coconut oil has other added benefits that salmon oil doesn't have too. My dog food has deboned salmon as one of the ingredients and other omegas so the coconut oil should hopefully do what everyone has talked about where his coat is concerned and apparently it has anti bacterial and anti fungal benefits, cancer fighting benefits and helps with metabolism and weight issues. I will try it and let everyone know if it makes a difference.


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## Layla's Mom (Feb 1, 2016)

Here's a description of the diff between salmon and coconut oil. It's seems like the article's saying that feeding both is beneficial and ok. Maybe feeding on alternating days would be best. Anyone out there have any experience? I also read to feed the unrefined not refined coconut oil.

Coconut Oil vs. Fish Oil For Dogs


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Why the two types, Heather? Salmon oil vs. coconut oil for coat, anyone? We've never done either, but maybe we should start?


We use coconut oil because Kodi became allergic to fish, so we couldn't use salmon oil anymore. Just be aware that these oils do have a lot of calories, and these are small dogs. So adjust their caloric intake elsewhere.


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## Ollie"s Mom (May 23, 2014)

Yes Karen all oils good or bad have high caloric value. With the coconut oil you should use only virgin or pure virgin or extra virgin coconut oil organic if you can. You can purchase it at your grocery store and it is very reasonably priced. I think I am going to start at an eighth of a teaspoon so no tummy upsets and build up. I checked dosages and we are supposed to go 1 teaspoon per 10 lbs of dog, but I think that is a lot of calories. I am hoping to just stick to 1/2 teaspoon max. I will build up slowly to let his system adjust. Moniter his weight and his coat improvement. There are approximately 40 calories in 1 teaspoon of coconut oil


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

I will look forward to your report, Ollie's Mom. Thanks for the article, Layla's Mom. I'm going to paste it into the Oils thread.


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## Ollie"s Mom (May 23, 2014)

I am excited to try it, I noticed my dog food also contains coconut oil so my dog food has deboned salmon, omegas and coconut oil so I am happy about that, although I am not sure how much. I haven't got the coconut oil yet, but I will get it this week and begin.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Ollie"s Mom said:


> I am excited to try it, I noticed my dog food also contains coconut oil so my dog food has deboned salmon, omegas and coconut oil so I am happy about that, although I am not sure how much. I haven't got the coconut oil yet, but I will get it this week and begin.


 the amounts in most processed foods are minimal and not of good quality. Here is from Sabines site ..."Despite the fact that the AAFCO still does not recognize EFAs as essential nutrients, more and more manufacturers include them in their products and of course proudly advertise the fact. Don't let yourself get fooled though, it's not enough that a brand is just advertised as "contains [high levels of] Omega-3 and Omega-6 Fatty Acids" - they need to be present in sufficient amounts and in the proper ratio. As with all other ingredients, the manufacturers of lesser quality products try to get away as cheap as possible to maintain a large profit margin. Incorporating EFA's into a dog food is rather expensive in terms of ingredients as well as preservation, since especially the Omega-3's oxidize (and thus spoil) rather quickly."


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

thats why for EFAs I use human grade Omega 3 wild salmon capsules . I poke a hole in the capsule and squeeze on her food. I don't use coconut oil and if i did it would be minimal .


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> thats why for EFAs I use human grade Omega 3 wild salmon capsules . I poke a hole in the capsule and squeeze on her food. I don't use coconut oil and if i did it would be minimal .


When I used to feed salmon oil, Kodi just ate them whole. I just put one on top of his dinner, and down the hatch it went! He liked them!


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