# smelly expensive day...



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Yesterday I was just about to take the boys for a walk and they were all leashed up when the mail man came...you a;; know how jasper gets with the mail man. But yay! he was leashed, I could use the opportunity to correct him because I was actually home... so we do Sits and No to barking... and he is doing what I ask of him... barks reduced to a low grumble while he sits looking like he is about to explode... Mail man leaves and we go for our walk... UPS comes... School bus lets off kids...and Jasper is wound up like a top... So we make it back to the house and I open the door and I am hit with the worst smell in the world. While I was correcting him with the mail man, Jasper must have expressed his anal glands... I couldn't find anything but I knew where he released by the smell... So spray, spray,spray with simple solution. and call the vet because I knew he was about due to have his A.G.'s expressed. She has cancelations (did I mention it was snowing and messy and I had just bathed the boys the day before) so in we go, figure I will get both their nails done while I'm there... 
So the vet expressed his glands (yup that was the smell!) and they were still very full... and she does his nails and then does Cash's nails... and then I remember I need Frontline and Heartworm medicine... and I am about to pay when the receptionist yells to the vet..."we need a heartworm test...oh and their immunizations are up at the end of the month..." So we go back in to do our annual exam... Weigh Cash...OMG...231/2 lbs...so we decide to do a thyroid test since all he eats is 4 medallions a day and a few tiny pieces of Jerky.... And of course they test them both for heartworm and ticks and do the physical and give them kennel cough and a 6 way...add the 6 month supply of Frontline and Intercept and what I thought was going to be an $18 dollar visit was $647. Ouch....

But before that...we had fun in the snow!

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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Missy said:


> So we go back in to do our annual exam... Weigh Cash...OMG...231/2 lbs...so we decide to do a thyroid test since all he eats is 4 medallions a day and a few tiny pieces of Jerky.... And of course they test them both for heartworm and ticks and do the physical and give them kennel cough and a 6 way...add the 6 month supply of Frontline and Intercept and what I thought was going to be an $18 dollar visit was $647. Ouch....
> 
> View attachment 20038


And that would be the reason that I only have one dog..lol :jaw:
I love this picture of Jasper and Cash in the snow..that is so cute!


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## suzyfrtz (Nov 12, 2007)

Very cute snow pictures, Missy! Cute enough to make up for the rest of your day!

Suzy


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## Hav a lot of pets (Apr 4, 2008)

What is sad is that I have had so many of those days throughout my dog parenting years. You wake up thinking it is a normal day, and in a matter of minutes it turns into a $500 bill. But, oh, the tests come back negative so we need to check something else....and....you know how it goes. 

And in the end, you do not miss the money, but still love the dog so it is all worth it.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Ouch, that hurts. The good news is that everything's okay but a visit like that puts a real dent in your wallet. Hope tomorrow is boring.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Wow, that is one very expensive anal glad and nail trim visit. Good thing the boys are adorable. :biggrin1:


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Ummm...Cicero just told me he loves being an only child. :biggrin1: When will you hear from the thyroid test? Has Cash just put on more weight lately? Vet bills can be a shock...but they are so worth it.!!!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

thanks for letting me and understanding my rant. I agree it is a good thing they are so cute. It was a shocker...but what else could I do? what else would I do? 

Cash has always had a weight problem(like his alpahette) since he was a pup. If I feed him any sort of kibble (with any sort of simple carb, even no grain but potatoes) he gets just ravenous and will cry himself to exhaustion for more food. And he gains weight... And he eats his poo... If I feed him nothing but the Natures Variety Medallion and green beans-- he does not seem nearly as hungry and will lose a little weight but not much (but he stops eating his poo too .) But we give him much less than what a 20 lb dog is supposed to get and he still gains weight. And both boys get a 2 mile walk every day and a lot of shorter walks...So we'll see... I would guess it will come back in a few days.


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## RickR (Feb 15, 2007)

Missy,
Jasper and Cash are so cute.
Sorry your day turned out to be so expensive............


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

What a day, you poor thing!!!! But they do look so cute in their sweaters.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Holy uke: that added up in a hurry. Those are the days when DH knows to just take the dogs and head to the car after the vet's finished while I take care of the paperwork...he'd just rather not know.

But just look at your babies! Could they be any cuter? I think not! That last picture made me LOL!

You're such a good Hav-mommy!

Beverly


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

What is up with that? I had my $300 surprise vet visit last week. Dayum. I should have been a vet. Actually, I could never be a vet. 23 pounds! That's one hefty hav. Gryff has gained a pound and a half since September. He's still only 13.6, so I guess that's pretty normal.

Sorry you had such an expensive, smelly day. Tomorrow will be better.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

I'm sorry you had such an expensive day, Missy. But the pics of your snowbunnies are so adorable! And we all know they are priceless.


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

Holy cow..that's some serious $$$ !! I went with my dad to take the basset to get her anal glands expressed a few months ago. He puts on her the table, and she poops and pees all over the place. It was NASTY!! This was after she tried to bite the poor vet. After he did his thing, and we went to pay. We were told "vet said no charge". I couldn't believe it. I thought we'd have to pay double, just because of the mess..lol. 


Anyways, sorry about your day. But, what adorable pics!! Love that last one. Bodie does that to Cooper's TAIL! ugh!! Just hangs on to it.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Whoa, that's quite a bill!

Let us know what the results of the thyroid test are - it really sounds like he eats so little! Lincoln was 18.8 pounds at his last vet visit, but when we got home, he did a huge poo that must have been at least 0.8 pounds :biggrin1:


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Oh Missy, sorry you had such a bad day but the snow pics are adorable! They look so cute in their sweaters. 

I didn't even know they could express their glands like that. Sometimes when Scooter goes poo it will smell sooooo bad! It looks just like normal though so I wonder if he's doing that when he poos.

I hope you have a better day today, one that doesn't cost anything!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Oh Missy - that REALLY was a bad day in the end!!! I know cause all mine have their yearly's in January and with three, and shots, and heartworm tests and meds, etc etc etc - it was really hefty. But look at it like this.... it should be over for the year!! 23 1/2lbs - hehe - that is a boy after my own heart!!! Logan ws 18 1/2 last month - I love those big boys!!
When I took Lily in she let her glands go in the vets waiting room, and then I picked her up = all over my clothes! Yuk. I hope that they are both feeling a little better - and guess you guys will be eating in for a few weeks! 

Love love love the sweater picture!!! One of the best I have seen!!


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Wow! That's an expensive visit....but the pictures of your cute furballs are priceless. They are so adorable. Hope the rest of the year is uneventful. Good luck with Cash's thyroid test results.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Missy, wow, that was one steep vet bill. Seems like it's too much, even for two dogs and all those test. Jasper and Cash are so darn cute! I wish I had a big boy. Marble so fragile at 10 lbs, I'm always worried someone will crush him.
Gina


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Missy,
I love that last picture!! Ya...wow that was an expensive day!!!


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Whoa, Missy, that was expensive! But I'd rather pay that than deal with the anal glands myself. Ugh...I just don't think I could ever bring myself to do that.

Speaking of vets....know why they might be so darn expensive? One of the new vets at our clinic told me that there are only 27 vet schools in the country. That's it. Isn't that hard to imagine? Compare that to the fact that there are 200 ABA approved law schools. And vets are so much more humane.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

YIKES!! :jaw:


Hey, Missy, think how much money you'd save if you didn't vaccinate them? :biggrin1: J/K  And what's with the heartworm at this time of year? I see Laurie doing the same thing in Jan. Is that normal? I don't worry about flea/tick/heartworm until May or June! Mind you, I don't treat Ricky with any of those meds anymore and with Sammy, I just gave him 3 or 4 doses of flea med'n last summer. We did the heartworm test in June and they were all clear, so no meds. 

I just cringe when I think of how the vets just charge, charge and charge! :frusty: It is o.k. to ask if tests are necessary or if they can wait. Do you have insurance for Jas and Cash, Missy? I can't remember if you took any..... they will reimburse most of the costs for regular visits and tests/meds. 

It could be that the stress of having to sit still when all Jasper wanted to do was lunge caused him to express some "stool juice" ! Oooooooo,, I can't believe I just said that!!!!! uke: LOL I wonder why Cash is gaining with that diet, though? It's not a problem that he's a heavier Hav, some of us have heavier, though not overweight havs, but if it's the thyroid it will be good to know. Keep us posted, o.k.?


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## CinnCinn (Mar 30, 2007)

Cash is appropriately named. teehee

Sorry your day turned out so expensive!


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## Trish (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi Missy..Thanks for sharing your vet day....at least we do not have to worry about a college education and a car for the kids when they grow UP!! My Ricky (HRI) is 24 lbs (his thyroid test was NORMAL)and some hefty dude..I also give him 2 medallions in the am and 1/3 cup Nature's Variety Low/Carb Kibble in the evening with a mushed up (!/3) veggie burger for a mix-in. Literally no treats all day except small carrots..My Happy and Lucky are thinner by far and can eat more..but don't seem to need the FOOD like Ricky!!! When we first adopted Ricky, he was given a clean bill of health and I brought him to our vet and $250.00 later he was still healthy...blood work is expensive (and he came with his heartworm meds!!). So with three little ones under foot, I know it can be expensive..their physicals are not all the same time..nice way to to stretch the payments out. I did invest in Embrace Insurance after weeks of checking every plan out there..hours and hours on the computer and for $600.00+ they are insured for catastroophic issues..$200.00 total deductible for the year and $$5,000.00 cap per year..I was to nervous not to have back-up when preventitive health is soooo expensive. I love them all and would not have done anything differently..it is not for everybody that is for sure. My hubbie is retired and I work 1-2 days a week..(pays for puppy stuff!!) 
Your pictures are fabulous especially the pulling of the sweater photo..LOVE IT!!!!! That is what is so fun with more than one..play time..It is the greatest..Trish PS Anxious to hear about the lab results.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I love the snow pictures particularly the one pulling the sweater. Sorry about the bill, and hope all the test are negative. At least everything is one now for a year.

I would love to know if others have had this anal gland self expression with our otherwise perfect babies.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Missy, my wallet feels for you! I have had some bad ones, too, just because you want to do everything at once so you don't have to keep coming back. But the sweater pulling photo makes ups for it!! :biggrin1: Jackson is a little piglet eater and I can't wait to see what his latest weight is. I hope Cash's thyroid panel comes back OK and he is just one of those who needs a little Slimfast 



> And what's with the heartworm at this time of year? I see Laurie doing the same thing in Jan. Is that normal? I don't worry about flea/tick/heartworm until May or June!


Marj, I don't know about Canada, but our vets here (especially in the warmer climates) want the dogs on heartworm 12 months out of the year. And they make them have a test once a year just in case. I think it is ridiculous if they have been on the meds, but there must have been some isolated cases of the meds not working. I do take the dogs off the flea control in the winter for at least 3-4 months, but it's amazing how we can have a couple of warm days and things start hatching around here.

But I do have a question . . . how often should anal glands be expressed? My groomer usually does it, but we have not taken Jackson in quite a while. I guess I could let the vet do it since Jackson is due for his one year boosters.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Yikes! I hope you hear good results! Moving to the middle of no where does help with those costs


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Missy~ Those costs are exactly why I'm willing to drive 30-45 min. to get to the "cheap" vet ($32 for an office visit, as opposed to $50 for the local guy...) 

Love the pix of the boys playing


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Oh dear! where do I begin? thanks for all your support. 

OK Marj...."stool juice." ound:ound: Kathy is right... where I live they recommend 12 months a year of heart worm and require a test yearly as well as the tick test. And even the Frontline (which is the huge expense) I used to take january and february off of Frontline but then Cash got sick last year (very scrary and very very expensive) and they really think it was tick related I have been vigilant ever since. I do have insurance...but does not cover routine visits or meds.

Kathy, yes...it was really doing everything at once including buying the meds (my vet does honor the lowest price out there...but I forgot to bring my computer print out so they matched petmeds which is not the cheapest) 

Sandy, I know Suzanne's Sierra has this AG issue as well. I know a lot of havs seem to need them expressed...but I think the "spraying" is not that common. Jasper has only done it once before. I don't think there is anything you can do but keep them expressed. We go every month to 6 weeks. the surgery to remove them apparently causes incontinence. 

Kim, Anne, I think it varies from dog to dog. I never have Cash's AG's expressed I guess he must do it naturally when he poops like scooter. I was told that Jasper's AG's are higher than normal and so probably would not be expressed naturally even if we bulked up his stool. I think the saying goes if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

Cindy, When Cash was sick last year ($3500-- insurance re-imbursed 2K) that was when I wished I had named him "Rich" instead...don't they say be careful what you name your dog? 

Trish, Ricky is the only Hav I know to be bigger than Cash... But in defense of our Big Little dogs...they are not small havs that weigh double what they should weigh...they are Big Havs with a few extra pounds... I think if Cash was perfect he would weigh 20lbs...but still 3.5 extra weight is a lot for a 20 lb dog. By the way Trish...do you need a snowsuit for Ricky? my boys will not wear them. Laurie, Jasper's might fit Logan...if you are interested. 

But other than that. The vet was impressed with the boys... ears, teeth, heart, skin... all perfect... both have slight luxating patellas-- even more important that I get the weight off Cash. I am torn about what I am hoping for with the results of his Thyroid test....part of me hopes he's fine and part of me hopes... a pill will fix it for him. I think the problem may be that Jas isn't a player (he saves all his energy for attacking the mail and expressing his AG's) and he has no one to burn off calories with...hmmmm.... now if that isn't a reason for a puppy...oh wait then, my bill would have been $1000 at the vet....LOL

Thanks for the cheers on the picts... I love the pulling the sweater too.... Cash has always reminded me of the coppertone dog who pulls the little girls bathing suit bottom... so this just reminds me of that more.


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

I split does of Advantage for my cats and it cost so much less!
You can do the same thing with Frontline or Frontline Plus..
I buy the largest dog size Advantage from my Vet and they give me a syringe and a vial to keep it in. I get 5 doses out of a $14 Vial 
Here's a website that gives the dosage amounts. 
http://www.lisaviolet.com/cathouse/advantage.html


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Oh yes, I remember you had insurance now that you told that story about Cash being so sick last year. 

You know, I whine and complain about how tiny my yard is and that it would be so nice to move to a more rural area (though I love the location we are at, just too many neighbors very close by), but those of you who do live in lovely settings, warmer climates, large yards, butted close to woods and trails, lakes, etc... well, you then have to deal with more ticks, fleas and other critters year round. In winter, things freeze, and I mean FREEZE here so there is no way a flea or tick could survive. We are careful for about 6-8 months, but I had Ricky and Sammy tested for h.worm and since they were clear, I did not use med'n. all summer long. Yup, that stuff is expensive too ! :frusty: They haven't been on h.worm meds since they were a year old. 

Anal glands should be left alone unless there is a chronic problem. I've read that having them expressed regularly will cause them to be "lazy" and then always need help being expressed. I would suggest doing it as little as possible unless the dog is really miserable or "shooting juice" because of them. LMBO ! ound: What we feed the dog will have an effect on his stool and how well the glands empty.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Missy - all my guys need snowsuits - so if you are willing to share?? I would love it! You have my address right? What can I send you for it??


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Marj,



> butted close to woods and trails, lakes, etc...


All I could think of us was those little Hav butts running through the woods!! ound: Yes, there are definitely advantages to very cold weather. I wish I never had to see a tick again . . . they give me the creeps.

Thanks for the advice on anal glands . . . that is one of those mysterious things that I would prefer never to have to deal with. My groomer always expresses Jackson's and says they are "full", so I didn't know if that was a good or bad thing to have done. I know my chocolate lab had impacted ones once when my father-in-law was keeping her and overfed her, so I know it can happen. Is that why some dogs scoot their butts on the ground? (There's that "butt" word again :biggrin1


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

yes "butt scooting" is my tell tail sign that I need to have Jasper's expressed. For the longest time I thought it was a sign of worms...but that is an old wives tail. But I have learned to do it before. I know jasper so well, that when he starts getting blue again...I know he needs them done. must feel like hemroids!!! ound:


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks, Missy. Wish I could get someone to show me how to do it, but not sure I want to know! :biggrin1:


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I KNOW I don't want to know, that's one thing I'm willing to pay for! 

The other day when Scooter had an upset stomach the bill was $92 for the visit, shot and medicine. At that time I was happy to only have one dog! Yesterdays bill at the pediatric dentist/orthodontist was $722!!! 3 kids check ups is so costly, and they all have braces/retainers. (No dental insurance.) We many need to wait until a kid or two is through college before getting another doggie.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Holy Mackeral! lol I hate when that happens,

I just called the vet on Monday for a refill of Frontline and hearworm, but they could only give me ONE heartworm pill since Gucci is due for the test too, which I know is $150 test (they do some other ones in there too, Can't remember what all the postcard said) So I have to make that appt too. After reading this post....I remember those tests aren't cheap!


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## JeanMarie (Mar 2, 2008)

Oh my gosh! Well they are worth it and that sweater picture is priceless!

My groomer takes care of Riley's AG. How often is too much?? He gets groomed about every 6 weeks.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

marjrc said:


> Anal glands should be left alone unless there is a chronic problem. I've read that having them expressed regularly will cause them to be "lazy" and then always need help being expressed. I would suggest doing it as little as possible unless the dog is really miserable or "shooting juice" because of them. LMBO ! ound: What we feed the dog will have an effect on his stool and how well the glands empty.


This is what I have always heard.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Cash's Thyroid is normal!!!! Yay! now what? seriously what should I try? i can't feed him less... he would not survive. The kibble's I have tried all make him eat his poo... Maybe I will try the Innova low fat with linda and her pack...


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Wow, that's a lot of $$ for one visit! Yikes! I'm glad everyone is okay, though.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Wonderful, glad to hear all is normal.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Eva,
All right! This sounds great. I might have trouble convincing my vet, but I've bookmarked this for the future. Thanks!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Glad he's ok. Our vet gave us a low fat food for Scooter while he's getting over this tummy upset thing.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Glad to hear the test came back normal!


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Missy, so glad the thyroid test was normal. I guess dogs are like people . . . some just look at food and it goes right to their hips :biggrin1: The only serious diet I remember a vet gave a friend of mine for her golden was the "green bean diet" which was normal food in the AM (or PM whichever your dog eats) and then a can of salt free green beans the other meal. I doubt a Hav would go for that without something else mixed in, and I also think they would not eat a whole can, but it did work for her dog . . . he lost about 10 pounds on it. I guess it fills them up without adding calories. I'm sure others have better suggestions for certain foods.

I did ask my vet yesterday about the anal glands, and she said that once they start getting expressed from inside, they will ALWAYS need to be expressed, so they don't recommend it unless the dog is having a problem. But she did say it is a problem for overweight dogs, and she did say it was OK for my groomer to do it as she only does it from the outside, and the vet does it from the inside. ??? She said sometimes the dog will start licking back there if they are full, and will actually uke: (sorry!) or the butt scooting thing.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

:jaw: Missy, holy smokes, that is a LOT of money! You could've almost gotten another Hav for that money! JK Glad to read Cash's thyroid is normal, but now the food game is on again for you, which sucks.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Good news about Cash's thyroid, Missy!  

Not sure what to recommend to have him lose weight though. 4 medallions/day isn't enough for a dog his size to gain! Any less, and he'll be too hungry. As others have sugg'd, how about adding green beans, low-fat cottage cheese, 1/2 a cooked egg, or a bit of brown rice to his medallions? I don't know......


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

maryam187 said:


> :jaw: Missy, holy smokes, that is a LOT of money! You could've almost gotten another Hav for that money! JK Glad to read Cash's thyroid is normal, but now the food game is on again for you, which sucks.


precisely!!!! Maryam you totally understand me. Although, this bill really did quell the IWAP a bit! and the "food game" just hit me over the head with a brick. :frusty:


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Sheri said:


> Eva,
> All right! This sounds great. I might have trouble convincing my vet, but I've bookmarked this for the future. Thanks!


 My friend is a Vet Tech and she told me about splitting doses when Tucker was a kitten and then I heard about the website with the dosages in another forum. 
My Vet was really helpful when I mentioned it to them and labels the Vial with the dosage amount for me.
Sadly Todd can't use Advantage or Frontline...they just don't keep the fleas away from him so he gets a $20 dose of Revolution each month. 
I do use the split doses on my cats and all of my foster dogs though and it works really well.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Missy, how about upping Cash's exercise? Isn't there someone on the forum who puts their Hav on a treadmill? I know Cesar has done it on his show. It'll get his metabolism going and help him burn those extra calories...


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

ha ha Jane... that would be good for me too! The boys get a 2 mile walk almost every morning. and a few shorter walks through out the day (granted with all this snow the shorter walks are far and few between) Cash has a hard time keeping up with Jasper and DH. he has short little legs and one of his front legs is a bit deformed. Alas... we have an eliptical runner (that makes a great clothes dryer) and really can't go out and buy another piece of exercise equipment for the DOG (that would end up a clothes dryer too) yes I said it...Cash is a DOG. I think it was on the other chubby Hav thread that I mentioned that we call Cash our miniature Newfie. He is just so, so, laid back... he just saunters about...rarely breaks a sweat..unless it is for treats...We have been doing living room agility...jumping form chair to floor to chair he has to do a full circuit and up the steps before he gets a piece of jerky I swear is no larger than 1/4" square. (of course Jasper gets one for just sitting there looking at Cash with disdain for jumpng through hoops...LOL) It is the only time I see Cash pant. he is just mellow. I am going to experiment with yet another Kibble brand (Merrick) and no extra enhancements to entice him to eat. perhaps it's possible that by cooking the medallion I have changed the way the food is metabolized... we'll see. 
Thank heavens I found something that works for Jas...


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## Mraymo (Oct 30, 2007)

I think you need to send Cash down here to hang out with Izzy for awhile. She's always up for a RLH.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Missy said:


> what I thought was going to be an $18 dollar visit was $647. Ouch....
> 
> But before that...we had fun in the snow!


Ouch is right! 
That last picture is so cute!


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Missy, I'm glad to hear that Cash's thyroid test came back normal. I guess you're really between a rock and a hard place. Cash is already exercising on your long walks. Would it work if you find a lower calorie kibble and make his treats something like raw carrots and string beans? Every so often, Maddie decides to go on strike and skip breakfast. I actually am happy about that. I figure its just a good way to lessen the calories for that day. She'll be famished at dinner and eat everything then. I try to keep treats very low calorie as regular treats can easily add up to alot of calories!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Jeanne, Yes. Jasper will sometimes skip a breakfast or even a whole day...I have no problem with his weight. In fact for a while I tried to feed Cash only what Jasper ate... Cash was so crazy hungry! that was when he turned himself into a pretzel to catch to tootsie rolls on the way out because he knew if they touched the ground they would be scooped up... so he won! we went back to feeding him more...


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## havjump (Apr 18, 2007)

Missy, sorry about the huge vet bill, and happy to hear the results on Cash.
I LOVE....LOVE.... LOVE your Jasper & Cash shot and hope you do not mind that I altered it a bit!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Wow, that looks terrific!


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## Esperanita (Jul 12, 2008)

Missy - I'm glad Cash is okay.

Question. Do most of you get Frontline/Advantage or Revolution from the vet? I recently got my Frontline and Heartgaurd off the internet and the prices were great. I got the Heartgaurd from Drs Foster and Smith and the Frontline from another site. The shipments both came very quickly and I read on the Frontline website that it doesn't expire. I got a full supply in preparation of getting Isabel (and Cuba needed more) and then I found out Isabel at 2.9 pounds is too small to use it. Oh well, more for Cuba...


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

my vet honors what ever price I find on the internet...so there is no reason not to buy through them... check out petshed.com. I always find the best prices there.


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## Trish (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi Missy..Ricky is also the larger than average Hav..He is so laid back he drinks his water sitting and barks while is is lying down...I never saw anything so funny in my life...what a SLUG!! He is perfect in every way, but tough to keep going FAST doing anything. Happy gets him going for short spells in the evening and Lucky chimes in so it is three Havs RLH!!! He will walk at a great pace when the weather is OK..NOT NOW!! I put hm on the treadmill everyday for 15 minutes..I am sitting in front of the treadmill encouarging him every step..he will literally sit on the "moving" treadmill and be very content!! So I pick up his BUTT and get him going again..he does it about three times during his treadmill exercise..I get a workout just keeping him going. He did loose a pound..we have at least 2 more to go..he came to us at 21+ lbs..would love to see him at that weight again...so I know exactly what Missy is talking about..he is a solid big boy..can feel his ribs!! His treats between meals (cut that back too) is carrots..my other two could take it or leave it..if they drop it Ricky is there!! This is probably the only real time he moves FAST!!!! Ricky definitely needed a home with other kids to play with even if it is short spurts!! 
When I had cocker spaniels, the breeder showed me how to express their anal glands at bath time..I have tried it on the kids with no luck..so all is good and they have not shown any problems so far like scooting, etc. My vet also wants heartworm meds all year round witha yearly blood test..sure does add up!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Trish, OMG. that is too funny. I love the visual of you picking up his butt on the treadmill. Yes Cash is very quick at the dropped morsel of food...LOL. and he does like his living room agility for the morsels...but it is so funny to have Jasper who so un-food motivated and Cash who will not do anything unless it is for food. My vet admits she is weight nazi and would like to see all dogs very thin. She even thinks Jasper could lose weight. he is not skinny but he is not Cash. I would be happy to have Cash be 21 too.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

That picture is just priceless!

Kathy, I'm so glad you mentioned that specific fact about the vet going _inside _compared to a groomer going outside. Cowboy John has been taking Barki to his small town vet to express her AGs about once a month, and I keep telling him we can do it. John keeps telling me the vet goes _inside _and I keep insisting that I have never heard of anyone going inside. Now I know! I thought he was crazy!

Eva, thank you for the tip on splitting doses of flea treatment, why didn't I think of that! :frusty:

Great news on the thyroid Missy, sorry it's back to the drawing board on the food issue though.
I believe Marj uses a treadmill with her pups, and I would think in another month or so, you would be able to pick up a used one at a garage sale really cheap!

Beverly


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

oh no, I came home to a message that the vet wants to do more testing on Cash. They had been waiting for thyroid test to come back. I guess the "everything is ok" msg that DH retrieved was about heartworm and ticks. She didn't say much in the msg. But she is not back in til wednesday. I am very anxious.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Oh Missy, I hope it all turns out ok. :hug:


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Missy, I know you are worried, but try not to read to much into it till you find out more from the vet. I am saying a prayer that things will be okay and Cash will surely pep up some with warmer weather on the way.


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## Trish (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi Missy ... That message is almost bad as getting it on FRIDAY!!! UGH!! I will be sending good thoughts to YOU and CASH to get this mystery answered..the waiting is tough. The thyroid panel takes longer to get results so maybe that is what has come back as you thought???? I know you will keep us posted..Trish


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

:hug: Missy. Let us know what you find out. :hug:


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Holy cow I could write a book of questions after reading all of this!!! Missy, that was one heck of a bill and I can totally relate for I have always had two dogs and it doesn't matter what breed they are when it comes to the vet charging. You want to say "no" they don't need this nor that but then the guilt comes and you know if you don't do it, even though you know there is no reason, you do it anyways because if you don't and something happens you will just die. So glad the thyroid test came back neg. The boys each weighed 15 lbs and I was under the impression that was heavy for Hav's but it isn't the first time I have thought wrong and it surely won't be the last. 

Pet insurance&#8230;I saw the cost for two dogs and still haven't done it. What insurance company do you recommend? Another one of those guilt feelings &#8230;**** if I do and **** if I don't. 

Today I fried two eggs, cream cheese, butter and dry dog food and fed it to the boys. They turned into gluttons! They licked the bowls so hard they moved them from one wall to another! Now I want to see if they go looking for cat poo with all that food inside of them. Here is something for you all to laugh over!!! When I first joined the forum I read most of the threads on feeding the Hav's. LOL LOL when everyone talked about kibbles and doing this with it and that with it &#8230;I really thought you were all talking about "Kibbles and Bits!" I need to go look at the ingredients of K&B's to see what was so special about it!! I never knew dry dog food was called kibbles!

Missy I love the pictures!!! The one with the sweater reminded me so much of the boys when they play. Maybe I should put sweaters on mine and give their tails some rest!!


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Missy, thinking about you and Cash. Hope you get good news while talking with your vet. Sending prayers and I will check back later this afternoon.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Missy, I hope you talk to the Vet soon and find out if anything is wrong. You should see it that way: if he has a hypothyroidism then that should be fairly easy to treat and you'd finally have an explanation for his weight. Don't worry too much, it's not THAT big of a deal!


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Missy said:


> oh no, I came home to a message that the vet wants to do more testing on Cash. They had been waiting for thyroid test to come back. I guess the "everything is ok" msg that DH retrieved was about heartworm and ticks. She didn't say much in the msg. But she is not back in til wednesday. I am very anxious.


Missy, I thought everything was fine with Cash and apologize for missing the above thread. Let us know what test the vet wants to do and the results of the thyroid. I am sure you are really anxious. Good luck.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Thanks for checking in all: Well I just got back from having more blood drawn from Cash. I spoke with my Vet today. Ironically, a part of Cash's Thyroid test (T4)came in HIGH. If it was hypothyroid (which would explain the weight)it would be low. Apparently it could be an indication of thyroid autoimmune...or it could be nothing. But even if it is the worst case scenario it is the same therapy and pretty easy on both pet and owner. So my Vet, is sending Cash's blood to Jean Dodds' lab in sunny California. Kimberly had suggested this as an option as Jean Dodds specializes in Canine Thyroid Disease...And before I could even suggest this, my Vet said this is what we will do next... and she also sang the praises of Dr, Dodds and was curious to hear what she has to say. So it gave me great confidence in my Vet. I think I am going to start a thread about Thyroid and Auto-Immune. I would be curious if there are others out there that could share stories and information. Isn't Django's Addison's kind of in the category? 


Meanwhile the boys are enjoying 50 degree weather and getting really dirty!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

oh just wanted to add...I spent another $150 today... the test was only $85 but drawing it and shipping it was another $65 (40 for shipping) VPI insurance will probably reimburse me some for the thyroid tests... the routine exam and tests are not covered. It's a good thing they're sooooo cute!


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## Trish (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi Missy..Thanks for writing so quickly..we can learn alot about thyroid/autoimmune issues through you and ,of course, CASH!!! Sounds like your vet really looks into things and never lets a stone unturned!! This vet sounds like a keeper...I guess there will be some time before you hear anything??? Hopefully VPI will kick in to help defray some of the cost...tests are expensive, but they are in humans too...most the time our health insurance cuts a deal with the lab to cover it completely or with a co-insurance kicking in in some cases. Will be waiting to hear the outcome..Licks and hugs to the kids..Trish and the furboys


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Wow, Missy! Sounds like you have an amazing vet. And :whoo: for Dr. Dodds - she sounds fabulous!


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Sounds like you have a great vet, Missy, and I will be praying that it ends up being 'nothing'.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I'll be anxious to hear what the results of the latest blood draw are. Your vet does sound wonderful. How reassuring! 

Pls. keep us posted, Missy! ((hugs))


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

So I am not sure I should post this...as the last time I did...I got a 2nd call. But I just got a call from the Vets Office...(from a vet but not my vet) that Cash's Thyroid levels are just fine! So-- I THINK I am happy to say-- we are back to square one. I mentioned this in Tom's thread-- but I am hoping to stop messing with food and just get both boys on a good kibble..even if it is not the same one.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Good news! You must be so relieved, now you can have a relaxing weekend.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Whew, Missy!

Both my boys are on different kibbles. I tried HARD to get them onto the same one, but what worked for one didn't work well for the other. So, TWO bags it is... :hug:


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## Trish (Jan 15, 2008)

Friday the 13th wasn't so bad after all Missy-that was great news!!...... I am a two bag kibble family too!! What ever works and they eat and thrive is good for me and the pups..they are my LIFE!!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

so Jane, I know Lincoln eats Merrick GPP. what does scout eat? 

what about you Trish? what two kibbles is your gang on? 

Right now-- I am trying to get Cash over to Orijen from the medallions (that I cook so I worry that I am damaging their mollecular makeup) 

and I am trying to switch (yet again) jasper from royal Canine to Merrick's GPP. he seems to like it. we'll see if he retreats into himself again.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm glad the test turned out great. I hope you can find a kibble that Cash will do good on. I have a bowl that has been full for 4 days...and still is full. How long can they go without eating? I think I've tried every brand there is to try by now -- and he will not eat any of it. This is my one worry with him!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I wrote this in Toms thread too.... http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=7268 But I have done a whole 360 on the mix and match/home made/raw...add a bit of this, add a bit of that philosophy. I have seen Jasper's transformation since he has been on primarily kibble (and low rated kibble at that (Royal Canin.) Of course there have been other things going on too... joint suppliments, some training things. But he is a different dog. There is so much science that goes into creating one of these bags of kibble-- they are balanced so that the dog can eat the same thing day in and day out. It is space food. So any thing you add to it can throw off this balance. I am not talking about a little chicken or vegetables... but who even thinks that a plaque fighter could change the balance of a dogs thyroid. And what about other suppliments? or like I have been doing, not feeding the food in it's intended form... RAW is great-- if you really do it. Homemade is great---if you really do it! But if you are a dabbler like me...I think my boys may be better off on a kibble.

Two thoughts on Cicero Dale. 1) he is holding out for your home made Jerky. 2) 4 day old food may be stale. What I did to get Jasper on kibble was to feed him less twice a day (I can't leave it out because Cash will eat everything) He didn't eat breakfast. But he ate dinner...and because I gave him less he ate breakfast the next morning. It is very rare now that he skips a meal. I would also give him less of that yummy home made jerky until he eats...


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Missy, he hasn't had any jerky in over a week. I have tossed out and refilled his bowl...but it's always full. Last night he ate maybe three pieces and walked away -- then came to my feet and whinned with a poor me look. I don't know how much longer "I" can hold out till I boil the chicken and make him a meal. I would love for him to like a kibble...any kibble at this point. It would make it easier on me and I guess be much better for him. Raw he will not touch. I gave him 1/2 of a chicken neck yesterday and it stayed on his towel to the point that I knew it needed to go into the trash. DH told him this morning that he would cook him something on the grill tonight if he hasn't ate today ~ I think I saw a smile on Cicero's face.  It's hard to believe he will go this long without eating. I havn't done any training treats this week. I keep taking him outside to RLH thinking he will get hungry and come in to eat...nope. He is a smart little fellow....but so picky with food.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Missy said:


> so Jane, I know Lincoln eats Merrick GPP. what does scout eat?


Scout eats Wellness (chicken flavor). They keep changing the name and packaging so I'm not sure exactly what it is called now, but its the regular one for adults in a purple bag (not light purple - that's for seniors, I think).

I tried to get Scout onto the Wellness, but he just reacts so badly to food changes with a runny butt. I'll try again maybe in a few months!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

It seems as if the toy breeds, or Havanese, anyway, are pickier eaters and have more sensitive stomachs than larger breeds. I wonder why this is?


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Missy said:


> So I am not sure I should post this...as the last time I did...I got a 2nd call. But I just got a call from the Vets Office...(from a vet but not my vet) that Cash's Thyroid levels are just fine! So-- I THINK I am happy to say-- we are back to square one. I mentioned this in Tom's thread-- but I am hoping to stop messing with food and just get both boys on a good kibble..even if it is not the same one.


:hug:Missy, Cash and family:hug:


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Dale, 

Four days?!?! You have nerves of steel! Ha! Doesn't Cicero have bad diarrhea by now? That is the first thing that happens when Tucker isn't eating.

Yesterday he didn't eat again, all day, then threw up quite a bit of volume in the evening, after having a tiny bit of "dingleberries." After he threw up, though, he came in hungry and gobbled up his food in his dish.

Wish I could figure it out....it IS a worry.


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Missy, I am so happy to hear all is fine!


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Sheri said:


> Yesterday he didn't eat again, all day, then threw up quite a bit of volume in the evening, after having a tiny bit of "dingleberries." After he threw up, though, he came in hungry and gobbled up his food in his dish.
> 
> Wish I could figure it out....it IS a worry.


Poor Tucker! :hug: I wonder if he wasn't digesting well so it all just came out. And once it did, he felt good again, and hungry! It's times like that I wish they could talk and tell us how they feel!


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Sheri said:


> Dale,
> 
> Four days?!?! You have nerves of steel! Ha! Doesn't Cicero have bad diarrhea by now? That is the first thing that happens when Tucker isn't eating.
> 
> ...


No, I'm going nuts trying to get him to eat kibble. I have bags of (1) Pinnacle, duck & potato (2) Evanger's, Pheasant & brown rice (3) Pro Plan Selects, turkey & barley ~ on my counter now. I keep getting a handful and trying to get him to eat as a treat -- not going to do it. The only one he has even tried is the Pro Plan. A while back he ate it for about a week, then stopped. He has never had diarrhea that I know of. I guess I will go back to cooking for him. It's not hard and I make a batch...but still it would be better if he would eat like a "big dog". When he was young he would throw up a little bile if he didn't eat...not this time. I can't figure him out when it comes to food.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Yeah Missy!!! So glad to hear all the tests are fine! We're a two kibble family also (although I mix with raw medallions in the am & 95% meat canned in the evening). Cody, who will eat anything is on Wellness. Tess who is a really picky eater gets Wysong. I've not heard anyone else talk about it on here and not sure it can be obtained nationally (it's made in Michigan) but it's the only dry food Tess will eat. (Due to her allergies, she gets the Anergen)

http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/se...DID=6937796512&OVKWID=84005080012#&CQB=090214


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Jane said:


> Poor Tucker! :hug: I wonder if he wasn't digesting well so it all just came out. And once it did, he felt good again, and hungry! It's times like that I wish they could talk and tell us how they feel!


Jane, 
That is what I figured. I've already been adding some digestive enzymes to his food, but have to add it to some yummy soft canned to get him to eat it. Yesterday I don't think I added it...can't remember for sure. I made sure to add it when he came in hungry.

It doesn't always happen this way, though...I can't figure out what is going on.



A week ago I started him on Nature's Variety kibble with grain, thinking maybe he needs more grain, not less, and he is having firmer stools. Coincidence? Don't know yet.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I caved. :brick:I put 1/2 cup kibble in his bowl ~ added some boiled chicken ~ added 1 Tablespoon of the dumpling broth, and mixed. He was at my feet the entire time doing a happy dance...and licked his bowl clean. I figured I had better feed Cicero when I saw DH had my suitcase on the bed. ound:I guess I will continue to add a little to the kibble in the hopes that I can get him to eating it by slowly removing the add-on.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Dale-What's dumpling broth? Are you making chicken and dumplings??? Scooter is a hold out too, he's on a hunger strike again. He'll eat if we mix canned food in with his kibble and we didn't add any yesterday or today so I've thrown away 4 feedings. :frusty: He throws up bile if he doesn't eat though.

Boiled chicken is like crack to him, he goes completely crazy! Not sure what I'm going to do but he has to eat! It's like a 2 year old who won't eat his veggies.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Dale, to each his own and if you want to add stuff to Cicero's kibble, it's definitely your right to. However, I do have to say that anything you give Cicero, and I do mean _anything_ at all will give him even more chance to refuse food. I know you said that your husband gives Cicero an M&M at night and that you give him chicken when he goes into his crate, etc. Is this continuing while he's on his hunger strike? Because he can live off of that, no problem, while waiting for you to cave in. You might think he's starving himself, but he isn't. Dogs can go something like 3 days without any food (and act normal - not starving) and if they're getting little snacks here and there... they can last even longer. If you REALLY want Cicero to be on kibble only, you need to cut out every single piece of food that goes into his mouth and do NOT leave the kibble down all day. Put it down for 20 minutes each meal 2x a day. Pick it up, put in a ziploc bag (so it won't go stale) and put it down again at the next meal. Wait it out, I promise you he will NOT starve himself. Dogs won't do that unless they're sick and there's something really wrong with them physically, which I'm pretty sure is not the case here as Cicero is obviously holding out for dumpling broth and boiled chicken. 

Like I said, if you're happy doing that then more power to you, but if you really want to Cicero to be a kibble-only dog at meal time, you need to be tough, cut out ALL extra treats and do the 2x a day feeding. Good luck!


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Lina, Ronnie and Cicero both got cut off from M&M's a good while back. I haven't make jerky in a while so he hasn't had any. We did hold out trying to get him to eat his kibble. After 4 days -- DH said "Okay, enough, he has got to eat something." So, I mixed in chicken we had with the kibble and he finally ate. I've owned dogs all my life -- some picky -- some not, but this is the hardest one to deal with food. He reminds me of my youngest grandson....he can smell some foods and start throwing up...LOL


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Dale, LOL! Well, considering how smart Cicero is, maybe he's just figured out a way to have YOU do tricks for HIM.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Ann, yes I cooked chicken & dumplings today and the thickened broth was what I added a spoon of. Cicero's favorite thing is boiled chicken. He has really went 4 days without eating. Last night he was whinning at DH's feet as we were eating....something he never does...and I told DH not to give him a bite of anything and he would eat today. NOT Tonight DH said "he has got to have something to eat, so you might as well give in ~ he does not like dry food." If there is a way he can pick out the good stuff and leave the kibble...he does. I have to try to mix stuff with the kibble that he will eat the entire meal....at least he is getting kibble that way. I have got to make up my mind on how to handle him...because I worry to much over this one thing.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Lina, you might be right...lol I would have NEVER let my human kids go 4 days without food -- and it has been hard to see Cicero watch me eat...then sit his kibble down for him and him walk away. It has been hard to not do any training because I didn't want to use the treats. Any dog that can train me....is a really smart dog. ound:


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## Mraymo (Oct 30, 2007)

Missy - So glad to hear Cash's tests came back good. 

I've been trying to switch Izzy from ProPlan Small Breed Puppy to ProPlan Natural Turkey and Barley. Izzy weighs 14 lbs now, I'm worried she's gaining to much weight so I figured I'd switch to an adult kibble. I tried it twice, I put a small amount in with the puppy kibble. She threw up both times. So it's back to just the puppy kibble. Not sure what I'm going to do now. Fortunately, she likes the puppy kibble and is a good eater.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

These guys really know how to play us, don't they? I think Lina is right about them being able to go quite a long time without eating. I just give nothing but kibble (Blue Buffalo chicken & brown rice) twice a day. Abby always eats it right away. But, I've heard that you should put it up after 30 minutes if they don't eat it and try again at the next meal. We did have a poodle years ago that probably would have starved to death if we hadn't given her canned food. I guess she knew I would cave! She just plain refused the dry and it drove me crazy. I think the best thing is to always just stick with the dry and they will never know any better! We do give Abby baby carrots and pretzels when we are eating them - we try to stick to (mostly) nutritious snacks.

Kathie


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Dale, I cave big time with the boys! And they are smart for I am still in training!


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## Trish (Jan 15, 2008)

Missy..My Happy and Lucky (thinner pups) eat Natural Balance(D. Van Patten) kibble..all varieties. They are eating Duck/Potato at the moment. I picked up samples of all their dry kibble and they liked them all (quite a variety)..nice size and disc shaped..they need to sort of chew it!! I alternate it with cut cubes of Natural Balance (sausage like package) to spice up the choice..they get bored with same old same old...I guess I would too?? My chubba Ricky gets Natural Balance Low Carb dry kibble...he never gets bored with any food!! Ricky is still working out on the treadmill..we are both tired when HE is finished..Trish


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Dale-Scooter's on a hunger strike too. He was getting canned food when he wasn't feeling well and prefers that to kibble. DH said to just buy some canned and we'll mix it with the kibble. I work harder at getting this dog to eat than I ever did with my kids, I make them eat what I cook and won't give in on that. The dog is another story, we must have 10 different kinds of treats that he gets. We don't overdo the treats, just like to have a variety.

I think I'm going to the petstore tomorrow to get some canned Evo to mix in. At least then he'll eat. (I hope!)


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

:frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty: Hunger strikes are nothing. I can deal with the hunger strikes...the eating poop I absolutely can't abide by...and... after 2 days of giving Cash Kibble morning and night (orijen low carb) and one medallion he goes out this morning and eats hims poop. I swear when he get nothing but 4 medallions a day he just smells it and walks away. 

So, either 1) Cash is very smart and knows that if he does this he gets his cooked medallions again.

2) the kibble makes him hungry (low carb but still has potato) 

3) the kibble makes the poo taste yummy!

Again, the only reason I would like to switch from the medallions is that I am a afraid I ruin some nutrition by cooking them....What in Kibble would make him eat his poop...he eats the kibble no problem. I wish there were a canned that didn't look/smell like canned. like little meatballs in a can! no goopy gravy. did I say :frusty:


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## Esperanita (Jul 12, 2008)

I had the reverse problem with Isabel. When she wasn't feeling well, the vet hd me give her Prescription Hills ID Canine. She ate it for two days and then wouldn't really touch it. I had to keep Cuba from it because he would inhale it if given the chance. Isabel preferred the Evo kibble and I had to keep her away from it.

Cuba will occasionally not eat, but usually I just leave the kibble out and when he's hungry enough he eats. Now, if he doesn't eat it, I know Isabel will...


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

I noticed a lot of people use Evo when they're finicker eaters won't eat. Is it that good?

Missy, we took the boys to the park today and ended up leaving earlier then planned for they were eating the deer poo which totally grosses me out and it was here and there and everywhere, they were in pooo heaven! They love cat poo too, but don't eat each others or their own. Nothing like knowing your dog ate poo and then they lick your face, which I usually love my dogs to do, except when they don't eat poo and I know it. UGH


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Colleen, I have the same problem with Abby but it's cat & duck poo! I always check her face when she comes in and if it smells she gets a face wash and a teeth brushing! Now that we're putting her out on a line she can't get near the pond to eat the duck poo and the cats always go quite a way from the house so I think the problem is solved - sort of!! A couple of days ago I was walking her around the side of the house and she stuck her face down in the grass and came up with an old dried up piece of poo and I yelled "drop it" and she actually did it! Never a dull moment with these guys!

Kathie


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Geshhh Kathie! I wonder why they do it? Some articles say they are missing something in their diet but what in the world would be in others poo that they don't get? Missy's fur babies eat their own poo so that doesn't add up. Too boot I don't have a cat, the neighbors cat likes to go in my flower bed and the boys have a radar nose for poo!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

colleen, just ONE of my fur babies eats poo....LOL...(luckily he is not the kisser) and only if I try to feed him kibble... (bigger LOL) I think as it gets processed other stuff is added to it...the food doesn't come out the same way as it goes in... Oh and Cash enjoys rabbit poo too.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Missy said:


> 3) the kibble makes the poo taste yummy!


Probably all three are working against you here, but I wouldn't underestimate #3! Sorry, Missy. It really must be :frusty:


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I think Cash is smart like Cicero and knows to do whatever it takes to get the food he loves...lol

The three of us in this house have reached a decision...there will always be some boiled chicken in this house to sprinkle in with the kibble. At least this way he eats most of the kibble.

I had never had a dog to eat any kind of poop, but when Cicero was a baby there were several times when he would bring in a dried piece of his own. I put vinegar in a spray bottle and carried it outside with me and when he pooped, I sprayed it good. After a week I stopped and he hasn't ever pay attention to poop again. I'm not sure if the vinegar helped or if he just grew out of wanting to save it...LOL


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

LuvCicero said:


> The three of us in this house have reached a decision...there will always be some boiled chicken in this house to sprinkle in with the kibble. At least this way he eats most of the kibble.


Dale, if it makes you feel any better, I always sprinkle some cooked meat on my boys' dinner kibble (usually chicken thighs or salmon, or whatever we are eating). They will eat their kibble without it, but I know they enjoy it. Once when I ran out, Lincoln looked into his bowl and barked at me indignantly as if to say, "You forgot the MEAT, Mom!"


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

The reason I am sure it has something to do with how he digests kibble, is he really liked the "taste of the wild" and he didn't eat his poop until he had been on the kibble for weeks and then he started again. He hadn't even looked at his poop since the last time I tried him on kibble. This last time with Orijen it was just a month in between and it didn't take long for him to feel famished. We'll see how the raw goes...it sure is easy, The house doesn't smell foul from cooked medallions and boy do they love it. I have been feeding it slightly frozen, well just really cold, so it is not messy at all and then I just wipe down their faces. Cash has always kept his face in the bowl until all is done...but Jasper is my take a mouthful over to the rug Hav. well not with the raw...he at almost as fast as Cash. 

Ha ha ha ha...how did my expensive day at the vet turn into a poop eating threat?


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

The reason I am sure it has something to do with how he digests kibble, is he really liked the "taste of the wild" and he didn't eat his poop until he had been on the kibble for weeks and then he started again. He hadn't even looked at his poop since the last time I tried him on kibble. This last time with Orijen it was just a month in between and it didn't take long for him to feel famished. We'll see how the raw goes...it sure is easy, The house doesn't smell foul from cooked medallions and boy do they love it. I have been feeding it slightly frozen, well just really cold, so it is not messy at all and then I just wipe down their faces. Cash has always kept his face in the bowl until all is done...but Jasper is my take a mouthful over to the rug Hav. well not with the raw...he at almost as fast as Cash. I think I am going to do a food consult with Sabine from the dog food project that Dave posted. She may have some more insight. My friend has had the consults with her 3 aussie's and she says this woman is awesome.

info:
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=myths

for a consult: 
http://www.betterdogcare.com/

Ha ha ha ha...how did my expensive day at the vet turn into a poop eating thread?


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

"Thank you, Jane" I have had dogs all my life and never worried about their foods ~ but I wasn't on a forum that talked about food so much!! I got to feeling like a bad doggie Mom and wanted Cicero to eat "the best". I've spent a year working this little guy. He hates dry food and I hate can foods. Tried all the suggestions on raw...he is not going to try it cold or warm. So for a while I was cooking "just for him" to make sure he got everything he needed -- that's hard when you think in years!! So there is "one" kibble he will eat "if" I add some chicken to it. For now that is what I will continue....unless he changes his mind about that one kibble also. :frusty: I told Cicero I am not a bad doggie Mom...he is a BAD eater...lol


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Dale, 
I'd be SO happy to have it narrowed down to one kibble with a little meat sprinkled on top! Be thankful you've got a working plan! I wonder if I'll ever be able to figure out what to feed Tucker without him randomly throwing up or having diarrhea, or refusing to eat! Sigh...


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Sheri...that is just for right now. It will not surprise me for him to refuse this kibble in a few days. I think he likes to have different meals.  It has also hit me that "texture" has something to do with what he will eat. I picked that up from toys...he will not play with anything that is rough textured. He loves balls that are smooth...but the basketball that is rough...he will not pick it up. He will not eat a piece of hamburger..cooked or raw...picks it up and drops its. So, I am now trying to notice if texture has anything to do with the foods he will eat. I know...sounds crazy!!! I'm glad he will eat this one kibble with some topping...better than having to cook entire meals for him.

Missy...it is funny how threads can really take a turn at times...:biggrin1:


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Oh, that is so interesting, Dale! Cicero must have a highly refined palate! I wonder what food would meet his "texture" requirements...something smooth....and meaty.....calamari? sashimi? hot dogs? 

These guys are just too smart....they really have us working for them!


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