# separation anxiety?



## toyota1 (Jun 26, 2012)

Hello,
We have a Havanese male who is 10 months old, his name is Buster. He is a purebred and has not been neutered. I believe he has separation anxiety. My wife and I both work and her schedule changed back in January. I leave the house at 7am and return home around 6pm. She leaves the house around 9 or 10am and returns at 9:30 to 9:45pm. She is required to work OT very often. We also have two boys 6 and 9 years old and we bought Buster for them, my oldest has asthma and that is why we chose the Havanese breed.

Since my wife's schedule changed and even a little before that, Buster seems depressed when she is not at home. He does well at night and doesn't pee or poop in the crate. He doesn't bark or whine when I put him down for the night, but he does when she crates him. When I return home from work, his water and treats have not been touched and his face around his mouth is soaking wet. Is this from anxiety? I wait until he has calmed down and then get him out and walk him for 10 to 15 minutes outside. He is very anxious to get back inside and then just lies around. My boys try to play with him and sometimes he will, but mostly not. He will not eat or drink and lies there pointed at the door to the garage waiting on my wife to get home.

Once she arrives home, he barks and goes nuts, jumping and licking her to death, and then follows her around non stop. Then he starts to eat and drinks water like there's no tomorrow. She gets a little aggravated when he follows her, because he is right there every step.

I do not let him on the furniture or the bed unless someone is there with him and he does not chew destructively when I am home. Sometimes when I get home, I can tell he has been destructive while she was getting ready for work in the morning, there is chewed up toilet paper on our bed or the bedspread has been chewed on, or my boys tell me Buster pooped in the dining room and peed on the sofa. Does he do that because she is getting ready and not paying attention to him or he knows she is leaving soon? Usually when she wants some space and won't let him in the room she is in, he will whine and sniff like crazy at the door, I call him to come and sit with me or play, but I get ignored.


Buster is a good and loving dog and awesome when he wants to play, but I can't help feeling sorry for him being left alone all day. What can or should we do? I know Havanese are companion dogs and I do not want this to affect him the rest of his life or for him to suffer like this.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome. This is definitely no good. You have to figure a way to split this time away , in half , with some half hour to an hour of stimulation in the middle of it. Only you can figure out how to do that. It's not healthy physically or mentally.


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

Dave is absolutely right--this will never work. This wonderful dog cannot be crated all day and all night. There must be some way to solve this problem--doggie day care?


Keeper's Mom


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

You are not being fair to your dog! It is a companion dog and needs to be with people ,not put in a crate or a bathroom for hours and hours.


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## cap (Jun 21, 2012)

Oh, Michael, I feel so badly for you, your family, and most of all for Buster. I have not had to face those particular issues but I have friends who have. Is there any way you can have him in doggie daycare? We all know that puppies can not be crated for up to 8 hours. Daycare could provide a solution for the anxiety and for needed socialization. Apparently neither you nor your wife are able to come home in the middle of the work day. Is it possible to hire a dog walker to come in to walk him and play with him for an hour or so? Or, perhaps you have friends who would be able to babysit. I truly hope you are able to come to a solution to this problem.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

Seventeen hours in crate is horrible. Imagine yourself spending that time in small toilet or car without being able to walk or stretch a little! I think that it is quite depressing for little guy. He needs space to move around and play. I am against crating dogs for periods that are longer than one hour. I use crate only in the car for Roki's security and during dog shows. i have read somewhere thet crate is just an euphemism for a CAGE. When alone Roki has acess to whole appartement. He han never chewed or destroyed anything, never barked and no potty accidents. 
First step should be to allow him to stay confined to kitchen with his bed, toys, pee pad, food and water. Doggie day care is good solution. If you do not find solution think about rehoming him. It can be act of love and care!
His wet face indicates that he is in extreme state of stress and fear!


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

I agree with Marina ( rokipiki)that you should consider re-homing Buster.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

Michael, I went through your post once again and came to conclusion that Buster is dog with many issues and that TIME IS RUNNING OUT for him! You have to act really fast!


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## LJS58 (Mar 23, 2012)

I think doggy day care or re-homing asap. I'm also concerned that your wife gets annoyed when he follows her around after she gets home. I would feel guilty for having left him, not annoyed. If he's annoying her, then for both their sakes, please re-home.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I have to agree. I couldn't respond to the initial post. All I could think was, poor, sad little dog. Even zoos now know that animals need more enrichment in their lives than that.


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## toyota1 (Jun 26, 2012)

thank you for all the replies, information and suggestions. I am taking it all in and will be talking to my wife about what we need to do for Buster and what is best for him. Let me clear one thing up, I stated that my wife gets a "little annoyed" when Buster is following her and jumping on her. She knows he is excited and greets him well when she arrives home, but after you have worked 10 hours and driven 50 miles round trip to work, you would like to get changed and relax for a few minutes, that is all I meant by that comment. My wife is a dog lover and loves Buster, she grew up with dogs and has rescued dogs off the side of the interstate before, that is why Buster loves her so much, he can sense her love and caring. It's just a tough situation.


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## LJS58 (Mar 23, 2012)

toyota1 said:


> thank you for all the replies, information and suggestions. I am taking it all in and will be talking to my wife about what we need to do for Buster and what is best for him. Let me clear one thing up, I stated that my wife gets a "little annoyed" when Buster is following her and jumping on her. She knows he is excited and greets him well when she arrives home, but after you have worked 10 hours and driven 50 miles round trip to work, you would like to get changed and relax for a few minutes, that is all I meant by that comment. My wife is a dog lover and loves Buster, she grew up with dogs and has rescued dogs off the side of the interstate before, that is why Buster loves her so much, he can sense her love and caring. It's just a tough situation.


I understand that you are both working hard and are probably wonderful people. Never the less, the dog is being abused. Sorry for being so blunt, but in the end re-homing or at least doggy day care is what a "dog lover" would have done 6 months ago.


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## mamacjt (Aug 23, 2011)

It's a tough situation, but it's tougher for your sweet puppy! He needs love and affection and not for just a few hours a day. Perhaps re-homing him would be the best idea for now and when your kids are older, or you/and or your wife are retired, would be a better time to get a dog. Soon, your kids will be so busy with their own teenage lives that a dog won't make a difference anyway. Besides, they probably need you and your wife rather than a dog anyway.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

It's hard because Havanese are companion dogs and they really do thrive on company. I'm lucky in that I'm able to bring mine to work with me. He's in a crate inside an X-Pen for most of the day. He's 16 months now, but when he was younger he went to the washroom quite a lot during the day. I'd typically take him out around 10 (pee), noon (pee and poop), (between 12 and 1 was lunch so he also gets to play for this hour while I eat lunch) then out again at 3 (pee) and again at 5 (pee and sometimes poop, although quite often he'd hold the poop til we got home). I just cant imagine how uncomfortable he'd have been having to hold it for that length of time. I can't imagine how uncomfortable *I'd* be if I had to myself! 

I still take him out pretty much on the same schedule, but he doesn't always go to the washroom but he gets to walk around outside and he pretty much doesn't do the noon poop anymore. 

He does get to meet lots of people (and sometimes dogs too) throughout the day, so this helps keep his socialization up as well.

I think it'd be a much better setup if there was an X-pen setup with crate inside, an indoor potty area option in there, and room to move around a bit. Obviously this still isn't ideal, but at least the poor dog would be able to relieve himself during the day. 

I know lots of people do leave their dogs at home alone all day. Some dogs do better with it than others. I think in these cases it's really important to make sure that the time spent with the dog is quality time.

It just really sounds like a lot of crate time to me. I'm not going to say you need to re-home, but I do think you should consider how much quality time your family has to devote to the dog. It sounds like you have busy lives with busy jobs and small children and maybe there isn't room for a needy type of dog like a Havanese who do require lots of time with their people.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

This post makes me so sad and even sadder that I know this scenario is probably more common than we know of. As said, they are companion dogs and NEED to be around people and need attention and companionship, hypoallergenic thing aside, they are not cut out for 18-20 hours in a crate, they just aren't. That is only a few hours away from how the puppy mill dogs live :*(


Not to be harsh towards you, i understand that sometimes people pick breeds for one characteristic, not taking into account the other characteristics that they have. i've been guilty of doing so myself and had to rehome my first try at being a dog mom because i picked a breed that was just not suited for our needs at the time. I really did my research this time around and was looking for a hypoallergenic full time companion dog that I could take to work and on vacation and lug around with me in a bag.

You can always revisit this when your life situation changes and is better suited for all involved, the separation anxiety and depression is only going to get worse and add more stress to an already stressful situation for all involved.

Kara


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

toyota1 said:


> thank you for all the replies, information and suggestions. I am taking it all in and will be talking to my wife about what we need to do for Buster and what is best for him. Let me clear one thing up, I stated that my wife gets a "little annoyed" when Buster is following her and jumping on her. She knows he is excited and greets him well when she arrives home, but after you have worked 10 hours and driven 50 miles round trip to work, you would like to get changed and relax for a few minutes, that is all I meant by that comment. My wife is a dog lover and loves Buster, she grew up with dogs and has rescued dogs off the side of the interstate before, that is why Buster loves her so much, he can sense her love and caring. It's just a tough situation.


If you didn't care about Buster, you wouldn't be reaching out for help now. I wouldn't go so far as to say he is being "abused"... I think that's a little unfair.

I DO wish you would have thought things through more carefully before bringing a dog into your home. People (not just you, but EVERYONE) should NOT buy dogs "for their children". Dogs are not play-things. They are members of the family. The rewards of living and working with a dog are great, but they are also expensive to maintain and a tremendous amount of work. As well-intentioned as you and your wife were, this is no way for any dog to live, especially a breed that lives for human companionship.

If you can arrange for and afford day care for Buster, that would be a wonderful option. He will come home tired and ready for cuddle-time each day. He will also have burned off enough energy that there will be much less chance of destructive behavior. If you can't arrange for (or afford... I know it's expensive!) daycare, and decide to re-home Buster, it will be hard. But you will be teaching your kids a good lesson about what love really means. Realizing that you have made a mistake and are in over your heads is the first step toward making the right decision for both your family AND Buster.


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## LJS58 (Mar 23, 2012)

krandall said:


> If you didn't care about Buster, you wouldn't be reaching out for help now. I wouldn't go so far as to say he is being "abused"... I think that's a little unfair.
> 
> I DO wish you would have thought things through more carefully before bringing a dog into your home. People (not just you, but EVERYONE) should NOT buy dogs "for their children". Dogs are not play-things. They are members of the family. The rewards of living and working with a dog are great, but they are also expensive to maintain and a tremendous amount of work. As well-intentioned as you and your wife were, this is no way for any dog to live, especially a breed that lives for human companionship.
> 
> If you can arrange for and afford day care for Buster, that would be a wonderful option. He will come home tired and ready for cuddle-time each day. He will also have burned off enough energy that there will be much less chance of destructive behavior. If you can't arrange for (or afford... I know it's expensive!) daycare, and decide to re-home Buster, it will be hard. But you will be teaching your kids a good lesson about what love really means. Realizing that you have made a mistake and are in over your heads is the first step toward making the right decision for both your family AND Buster.


Ok, let me ask you this- suppose you needed someone else to take care of Kodi for six months, and you found out that he had been left in a cage for 16 or 17 hours a day, and on top of that, his caretaker was "a little aggravated" when he wanted attention when they arrived home after so may hours. Would you feel that he had been abused? I would, which is why I stand by my comment. I do applaud the owner for seeking help. No offense intended to anyone, but the owner did ask for input.


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

Michael, could you use this forum to ask if someone in your area (don't know where that is) could help you out? 

If you could see Buster during the day, this poor little guy is just going nuts and really suffering. Drooling is a sign of severe stress. He does not appear to be drinking while you're gone which is why he is so thirsty when he finally gets out. I am truly sorry for your work-hour problems which can be difficult, but I have a lot more sympathy for Buster. Did you investigate the breed before you obtained a Havanese? Other than being low on the allergy scale, did you understand that this is a very smart, extremely loving breed who MUST have human companionship. Your wife was originally home with him apparently. How did you expect him to make the transition and not be just miserable with his current situation? 

Absolutely rehoming the dog if you cannot give him a decent quality of life is the humane thing to do and I wish you luck. I wish Buster even more luck.

Keeper's Mom


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## Lisainidaho (Feb 1, 2012)

Michael, I admire you for having the courage to write this. That said, I think it is horrible. I feel so badly for your Buster. You must know that this is a horrible situation for your dog. If you feel that you must keep the dog, then shell out the bucks and hire a dog walker for the middle of the day. Take him to a doggie daycare several times per week. Something - but in my very humble opinion what you are doing now is torture. I certainly don't know you or your family, but from what you describe your lifestyles do NOT warrant having a dog. 

I'm very sorry if that is harsh. I do not say these things lightly.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I sense that you are leaning towards rehoming and if you are, Havanese Rescue is a great organization with a long list of candidates.

I know someone locally in Virginia Beach That is looking to adopt/rescue a havanese, she came to our last play-date a few weeks ago to 'get to know' the breed, not sure how far you are from VA, but if you within a state or two and interested, send me a PM.

Kara


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Welcome to the Forum, Michael and Buster! :welcome: Please post some pictures of your little guy. we love pictures. -)

The previous posters have answered most of your questions and given many good suggestions. Your question about Separation Anxiety has not yet been answered, though. While I cannot diagnose SA (or any other psychological ailment in dogs), I can offer my own circumstances. I am home with my dogs, so your situation is very different.

I have 2 dogs adopted from shelters. The first adoptee, Buffy, was very freaked out as a result of being in a shelter situation and took a long time before settling down and not worrying about me leaving her. She would follow me from room to room, always underfoot, and she would stand at the door and bark if I went outside for chores such as watering the garden or even taking out the garbage. As time went by, she settled down more and seemed to worry less, and now (2 years after adoption) she only sometimes keeps one eye open when napping to check on my whereabouts. Usually, she just sleeps.

Buster, on the other hand, could not stand to be away from me for even a moment for most of the last 2 years. Even when Buffy would be right next to him, if he could not be right next to me (as when I went outside for quick chores), he would bark himself into a frenzy and not stop until I was back inside the house.

When I was crate training him (for potty training purposes), he would bark and try to get out using his front paws and teeth if I went out of eye range. Around the time he turned two, he made some positive behavioral changes (including finally learning to ring a bell to tell me he needed to go outside - yeah!!), and now he can allow himself to relax and just keep one eye open when he naps.

I believe that Buffy did not have true Separation Anxiety, but Buster did and still does to some extent. I have used a Thundershirt on him to help him calm himself, and that may have contributed to a reduction in his SA.

The drooling and chewing behavior sound like symptoms of SA, and your Buster may very well be depressed. It also sounds as if he is not getting nearly enough daily exercise.

Have you (and the rest of the family) gone to obedience classes with Buster? while waiting for your wife to come home, you and the kids can work on tricks with Buster. He needs more mental (and physical) stimulation than he seems to be getting.

The paper shredding is very common in Havanese - we call it the "shredding gene." He's just having fun.

What kind of chew objects do you have in his crate? Some people used frozen, stuffed Kongs to give their dogs something to do while they are crated or in their ex-pens while their people go out.

If you can afford doggie daycare, there seem to be quite a few (with varying pricing and services) in the Jacksonville area to choose from. I Googled doggie daycare Jacksonville, FL and found:

Camp Bow Wow http://www.campbowwow.com/us/fl/jacksonville/pricing/day-camp

Pet Paradise Resort (there are 2 locations in Jacksonville) http://www.petparadiseresort.com/locations/jacksonville-uni-blvd.aspx

Bark Avenue Pet Resort http://www.barkavenue-petresort.com/daycare.html

Mandarin Pet Care http://www.mandarinpetcare.com/pricing

The Barking Lot http://thebarkinglotjax.com/pricing.htm

Fresh Prints Pet Lodge & Day Resort http://www.freshprintspetresort.com/daycare.htm

Coastal Veterinary Hospital has well-dog daycare http://www.coastalvethospital.com/news#!__services/vstc1=dog-daycare

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Coastal-Doggie-Daycare/134169933020

Just Like Home Dog Boarding & Day Care (specializing in small dogs) http://www.justlikehomeboarding.com/Rates.html

Dogtown USA in St. Augustine (in case you are in the vicinity) http://dogtownresorts.reachlocal.com/?scid=2440244&kw=34254&pub_cr_id=17127040658

Here is a company that comes to your house: Dog Days & Cat Naps http://www.dogdayscatnaps.com/services/ratespolicies.html

If you are thinking about re-homing Buster, does your contract with his breeder require you to return him to the Breeder for re-homing?

If not, please consider Havanese Rescue: http://www.havaneserescue.com/assistance.html

Please update us with what you decide to do. We care.


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## bellapico (Nov 29, 2009)

LJS58 said:


> Ok, let me ask you this- suppose you needed someone else to take care of Kodi for six months, and you found out that he had been left in a cage for 16 or 17 hours a day, and on top of that, his caretaker was "a little aggravated" when he wanted attention when they arrived home after so may hours. Would you feel that he had been abused? I would, which is why I stand by my comment. I do applaud the owner for seeking help. No offense intended to anyone, but the owner did ask for input.


I understand that the owner asked for input but I agree with Karen that we also have to treat people kindly. Seeking advice is not the same as passing judgement. The quickest way to scare people from this wonderful forum is to berate them, that was not necessary. At the end of the day, your comment was not adding value (it was all said prior to you), but plain and simply not nice. I think the poster gets the point at this time and all we can do is coach and encourage towards an alternate resolution for all parties involved.

Havanse rescue and Halo are both great organizations so please reach out to them for support. I wish you the best in your decision.

Good wishes and good luck.


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## LJS58 (Mar 23, 2012)

Ok, but you it sounds like you are berating and passing judgement on me for (in my opinion) being truthful and trying to help a dog who has been neglected for six months. I am entitled to my opinion of the situation, as are you.


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## toyota1 (Jun 26, 2012)

I did research the Havanese breed before we got Buster from the breeder, he was 12 weeks old. As I stated before, my wife was PT, only 12 hours a week when we got him and she had applied for FT work at another company before we got Buster. She got the FT job and then 4 months later, she had a shift change. Buster was not always in the "Cage", we kept him in a good size pen as the breeder suggested and had a crate on stand by, because she suggested crate training him. He started climbing out of the pen and he still wasn't potty trained fully, so we started to crate him then and he done well. Only since she had the shift change has Buster gradually gotten worse and that is why I came on here for help and advice. Buster is not “caged” 19 to 20 hours a day as some as you say, do the math! He is crated at night which he is ok with, he sleeps through the night and doesn’t get put down until 11:00 or 11:30pm and then is back out at between 7 or 8 am. He is crated during the day, 4 days a week, because my mom-in-law is off and she gets him or takes him to play with her dogs. So the other days he is crated for about 7 hours while we are at work. I did not realize when I posted on this forum for help that I would feel a need to defend myself and my wife. Buster has not been abused or neglected; he is healthy (physically), has had all his shots and is on regular maintenance for heart worms and flea/tick control. He goes to the groomer ever three weeks and gets bathed by us as needed. We are concerned for his mental state and his need for human companionship which he is not getting enough of now. We have started the process of Re-Homing him now and my awesome wife agrees. This is an easy decision for Buster’s sake, but no one for my family; he will be extremely missed by us!


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

Michael, I applaud your efforts on behalf of Buster--he is a darling dog. You are right that he isn't getting what he needs from a very busy household and rehoming him is the right thing to do. I know you'll be very careful where he is placed and hopefully not at a regular shelter. This will be better for all of you at this time and I wish you all well.

Keeper's Mom (Shirley H)


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## mamacjt (Aug 23, 2011)

I wish I lived closer. He looks adorable!! My heart goes out to you and your family! This is not an easy decision and I'm sure you will miss him terribly!


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## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

Michael...thank you for coming to the forum and seeking advice. It sounds like you knew deep down that your current family's situation isn't the best for your pup and it sounds like everyone's feedback has helped you make a decision. 
Every Havanese is different, but the one thing they all seem to have in common is that they like to be really close with their peeps as much as possible. Some have an easier time being on their own and others don't do well with that at all. 
One of my friends does work all day and so does her husband, but she takes her dogs for long walks twice a day..before and after work.. (and she got the second dog as a companion for her first Hav).
With two young boys in your house, I bet there are lots of sports and other school related events, too, so a needy dog like a Hav is just not a good fit. Most dog breeds like company, but these little guys need and crave it so much more. 
Good luck with everything and don't hesitate to ask for more help if you need help with the rehoming....there is someone out there that needs him as much as he needs her/him!

Alexa


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

IMO, I think some people passed judgment on Michael, which I didn't think was called for. As a new member, I really appreciate it when people post about hard problems since sometimes others are going through the same thing (of varying degrees). Please don't assume the worst, rather, focus on advice to alleviate the issues instead of emotionally charged statements about how someone is raising their Havanese.


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## Kalico (Jan 11, 2012)

MarinaGirl said:


> IMO, I think some people passed judgment on Michael, which I didn't think was called for. As a new member, I really appreciate it when people post about hard problems since sometimes others are going through the same thing (of varying degrees). Please don't assume the worst, rather, focus on advice to alleviate the issues instead of emotionally charged statements about how someone is raising their Havanese.


Agreed. I have seen several threads like this one lately. It makes me visit the forum less, and I can imagine it would make people who are sincerely seeking advice about what is best for their dog (as Michael seems to be doing) hesitant about posting their questions at all.

Michael, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I can imagine it is extremely stressful and upsetting for everyone, and especially for Buster. Life circumstances can change suddenly in ways that are very challenging. I have experienced this first-hand myself recently. You are taking the right steps to figure out how to address this. You have gotten some good advice about doggie daycare, rehoming, etc. I'm sure you will find the right thing for Buster and your family!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

That's the best move.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

Sending a lot of prayers that all goes well for Michaels family and sweet Buster!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

toyota1 said:


> I did research the Havanese breed before we got Buster from the breeder, he was 12 weeks old. As I stated before, my wife was PT, only 12 hours a week when we got him and she had applied for FT work at another company before we got Buster. She got the FT job and then 4 months later, she had a shift change. Buster was not always in the "Cage", we kept him in a good size pen as the breeder suggested and had a crate on stand by, because she suggested crate training him. He started climbing out of the pen and he still wasn't potty trained fully, so we started to crate him then and he done well. Only since she had the shift change has Buster gradually gotten worse and that is why I came on here for help and advice. Buster is not "caged" 19 to 20 hours a day as some as you say, do the math! He is crated at night which he is ok with, he sleeps through the night and doesn't get put down until 11:00 or 11:30pm and then is back out at between 7 or 8 am. He is crated during the day, 4 days a week, because my mom-in-law is off and she gets him or takes him to play with her dogs. So the other days he is crated for about 7 hours while we are at work. I did not realize when I posted on this forum for help that I would feel a need to defend myself and my wife. Buster has not been abused or neglected; he is healthy (physically), has had all his shots and is on regular maintenance for heart worms and flea/tick control. He goes to the groomer ever three weeks and gets bathed by us as needed. We are concerned for his mental state and his need for human companionship which he is not getting enough of now. We have started the process of Re-Homing him now and my awesome wife agrees. This is an easy decision for Buster's sake, but no one for my family; he will be extremely missed by us!


You should be proud of yourselves. I know what a hard decision this must be, but you are doing it for the right reasons!


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## bellapico (Nov 29, 2009)

Michael, I know this must be tough decision and I wish you and your family all the best. You made a selfless decision and I think you should walk away from this experience with your head up high because you acted with integrity and that is a life lesson for your kids too. Good luck and I wish you the best during this tough time.


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