# Anyone trained backwards? Gone form Pottying Outside to Litter?



## Forbulous (Mar 23, 2009)

Ok, So I have had my Molly for a year now, and I CanNOT get her to ALWAYS go outside. We go for weeks and then wham I find a pee, usually in my sons playroom, and on a toy! &#$^

Anyway, I am thinking since it is almost winter I may train her to use a litter box, so I can start to trust her and she doesn't have to be crated so much..

Anyone else done this? Litter trained later...any suggestions?


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## oohbetty (Mar 2, 2009)

That doesn't sound like a housebreaking problem, that sounds like a marking problem. In which case a litter box wouldn't solve the problem. Have your son start feeding him. Have him make your dog sit before he gives him the food. Also, have your son come in the door first when they go out and have your son make the dog sit before he is allowed in the house. That will let the dog know that your son is in charge. 

My dog was peeing on my things when he was a pup and I did these things and it stopped in 3 days.


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## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

It could be marking or a combination mark and need to pee. My dog will mark if he needs to pee and we forgot to let him out. (he is a rescue dog) And he will mark in the quiet out of the way place, so if the play room is empty she might be going there to be discrete.

You may want to look at your schedule, when she is fed food and water, exercised, trained and when she is walked. 

At a year old she should be able to hold it fairly long. I wonder how much time is she spending in her crate etc... 

You can clicker train her to pee on command. This requires a schedule though to be fair to the dog. 

My Havanese dog was trained at 3 months to ring the bell when she needed to go outside to pee. So there are lots of fun options...

Bringing a litter box in the house to me sounds like one added thing to clean and train. 

Angela


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

If she sleeps in a crate, training her to a litter box will be easy. Post if she sleeps in a crate or not and we'll go from there.


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## Forbulous (Mar 23, 2009)

Yes, Molly is crate trained. However the poor thing spends alot of time in her crate when I am at work, because I can't trust her.

She DOES go in the play room to be discreet. She goes in the same spot in the playroom, whether there is a toy in the spot or not. So I know it is not a dominance thing, more of a 'spot" thing.

I've even sprinkled kibble that she really likes but is usually a treat, in the area, thinking she won't poop where she eats...she just pees on top of it!

ARGGGGGGGGgggggg!

Thing is, she will go weeks without a mistake and our schedule never changes...then bang, she goes....


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## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

Do you know what time -- when she is peeing?

Can you rather than crate her, put her in the kitchen with the crate open but the room gated? So she can move in and out of the crate to sleep and walk around the kitchen floor. just a thought?

I don't know anything about litter box training...but I imagine to start you keep her space small. I'd be interested in reading how Tom King teaches that, as we have a sailboat and a litter box trained dog would be handy.

A


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I didn't go from outside to litter, but I did to paper & pads. Several reason for doing this but the main one was Smarty was having so may UTI that she needed a place to go when we were not at home. She was trained to go on command outside so showing her the area and telling her to pee pee was pretty easy. Galen is now trained to the go in the area also, both girls prefer the outside.


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## Forbulous (Mar 23, 2009)

I have tried and tried to get her to go on command.I say Go pee when she is sniffing and then again when she pees.

However she doesn;t get it. If I say "go pee" when she isn't sniffing. She comes over, sits down, licks her chops and looks at me sideways. She has no idea what I mean, even though I have said the same thing to her, every time, for 14 months!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Forbulous said:


> I have tried and tried to get her to go on command.I say Go pee when she is sniffing and then again when she pees.
> 
> However she doesn;t get it. If I say "go pee" when she isn't sniffing. She comes over, sits down, licks her chops and looks at me sideways. She has no idea what I mean, even though I have said the same thing to her, every time, for 14 months!


Both of my girls learned to pee by me saying "lets go pee pee" when we go out, as soon as they squat I say "pee pee", when they finish it is "Good Girl" and give the treat. This has taken months of repetition for Galen to be dependable.


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## Renee (Mar 27, 2008)

Forbulous said:


> I have tried and tried to get her to go on command.I say Go pee when she is sniffing and then again when she pees.
> 
> However she doesn;t get it. If I say "go pee" when she isn't sniffing. She comes over, sits down, licks her chops and looks at me sideways. She has no idea what I mean, even though I have said the same thing to her, every time, for 14 months!


Have you tried giving her a treat after she goes poddy outside? You can tell her "go pee"....and just be patient. Keep repeating it. If she doesn't go after 10 minutes, take her inside, crate her, and try a little bit later. She will eventually go poddy while you are watching and THIS is when you give her a treat and LOTS of praise. Then she'll figure out what you are trying to tell her. Whenever Miley will start having accidents in the house, we go BACK to this initial step. Both of my dogs will go on commnd now.


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## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

Renee said:


> Have you tried giving her a treat after she goes poddy outside? You can tell her "go pee"....and just be patient. Keep repeating it. If she doesn't go after 10 minutes, take her inside, crate her, and try a little bit later. She will eventually go poddy while you are watching and THIS is when you give her a treat and LOTS of praise. Then she'll figure out what you are trying to tell her. Whenever Miley will start having accidents in the house, we go BACK to this initial step. Both of my dogs will go on commnd now.


Yes, or with the clicker -- first introduce the clicker as per the book. When you know they will pee you say "be busy" (or such) then when they finish peeing you click and treat. The clicker speeds up the understanding because it marks the behavior.

You may also want to check if she has a bladder infection, these things can linger in a very low profile way.


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## letter4tony (Jan 30, 2009)

Mochi has the same patch of grass on the curb of our sidewalk that he loves to pee on, (but the neighbor HATES) - he pees in that one spot preferably, but will pee anywhere outside while walking, but if it's a quick in and out pee, that's the spot, and then we take him to the backyard for a poop, always in the same spot.

When I'm at work for 8 hours a day, he's at home in a portion of my room with his bed (before was his crate) and a petapotty and his toy box. On rainy days, he'll use the petapotty, on random days, he'll use the petapotty like 5 or 6 times in a span of 10 minutes which I think he's just marking, he'll do just random squirts at the poor thing.


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## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

Along with teaching to pee on command...

Also clean the area that she pees in with an enzyme cleaner, to eliminate any traces of urine. http://www.naturemakesitwork.com/home/index.php And put down some rubbing alcohol on the spot, this really discourages the dog to pee there.

(do not use ammonia cleaner like windex)


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Okay, it will make it easier since she sleeps in a crate.

First you will need to decide which type of litter you prefer. There are four brands or types.

1. Purina Second Nature- extruded recycled newspaper pellets. They have a kind of sharp smell to my sensitive nose, are sold at Petsmart, and are the most expensive of the choices. We started using it when it first came out and have been litter converts ever since. We don't use this type any more.

2. Petco litter. also extruded newspaper but it doesn't have the smell like the Purina does. It has baking soda in it, only sold at Petco, and cheaper than the Purina.

3. Wood Pellet horse bedding sold under a bunch of different brand names. Probably less than half the cost of 1. and 2. They are made from Pine and have some pine odor but it's not bad. This can be found at any tack and feed store and places like Tractor Supply. The bags are heavier than the Purina and Petco-typically 40 and 50 lbs. versus 15 and 20 pounds, so you have to be able to handle that weight if you pick this option.

4. This is our first choice. Wood Pellets for Wood burning pellet heaters. They are made from hardwood, have little smell, and are by far the cheapest. A 40 lb. bag is around 6 bucks whereas the Purina is approachng $20 for a 20 lb. bag. The bags are typically 40 lbs but not as large in volume as the pine horse bedding of the same weight. We buy ours from Tractor Supply Company which is a chain with stores all over the country. I'm sure it's sold in other places too but TSC is convienient for us as we have one a lot closer than a Petsmart or Petco. We go through several hundred pounds raising a litter so the price difference is substantial. Tractor Supply doesn't keep it out on the floor when it's not heating season but they usually have a pallet in the back. We make sure our TSC keeps some in stock for us.

All the above look like they come through the same sort of extruding machine and are all about the same diameter and length pellets. We have found it's better to stick to one type, at least for a while, as when a new type is introduced it becomes a novelty and must be investigated by chewing and digging. Once they are used to one type, they accept it as nothing else but something to potty on.

Potty training and house training are nothing but establishing a habit. Reasoning about it doesn't come until much later and most people get into some sort of trouble with it to start with because they expect the puppy or dog to reason it out. We always start by creating a habit. These dogs are very much creatures of habit and if they do something once, it's very easy for it to become a habit for them.


I'll come back and edit this post later to add to it rather than post something else later in the thread and make it hard to find. Right now Pam and I are in a dog washing marathon. I'll bump the thread up and state in the bump post which post # this is.

We recommend the Purina standard size box for adults so you will need to purchase that, your litter of choice, and an expen or improvise something around the box to start with. We order boxes and expens from JBpet since their shipping charges are by dollar amount and not weight.

Later,

OP, let me know what you have decided to work with on the litter training. I'll be back to add to this later. To simplify the training and make it a speedy transition, the litter box will be set up so that she goes in it as soon as she gets up in the morning and has to "go potty". The box needs to be contained in something like an expen so she has nowhere to go but in the box. I'll tell you exactly how to act and what commands to give including timing. We use this method with puppies if one in a litter decides that he/she really would rather not go in the box or if one regresses. It's a pretty quick turnaround and we have trained adults with no housetraining to this method too. She won't stay in the box unless you are standing there with her so if you can sense when she has to go it will help a lot. We know they have to go first thing in the morning so this is a good time to start. They will usually learn the command the first or second time.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Tom, I just got back to this thread. Great advice. I would have never thought of the wood pellets or shavings. My girls are not allowed in the barn because of the shavings in their coats, so I would definitely go the extruded wood pellets.

Most people do not realize puppies/dogs will not soil where they sleep unless they have no alternative. When I was breeding (Boxers) I used a raised wire pen (2X6 feet) attached to the 4X4 foot whelping box. Under this wire pen were newspapers, the pups would sleep and play in the whelping box and with no training whatsoever around 3 or 4 weeks start to go to the wire pen to poop and pee. By the time they left the whelping box they were paper trained. 

With our two havanese traveling with us it is easier for me to stick with the paper/pads for the emergency situations, bad weather and for easy clean up.


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## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

thanks Tom, I will keep this post when we decide to take the dogs sailing...i'm glad they don't need one now though :wink:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

hvapuppy2 said:


> Along with teaching to pee on command...
> 
> Also clean the area that she pees in with an enzyme cleaner, to eliminate any traces of urine. http://www.naturemakesitwork.com/home/index.php )


Even using an enzyme cleaner, Kodi sniffed around at a couple of places where he had accidents on our oriental rugs, and while I watched him very carefully to make sure we didn't have a repeat performance, it made me nervous that he still obviously smelled something there. I bought a Bissell "Green Machine", which is a small, portable steam cleaner for under $100 at Target. You can get a cleaning solution for it that is specifically made for pet stains. I can't believe how well it works. He completely ignores the places that he previously sniffed at now. (the machine is also great at cleaning up kid messes :wink


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## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

oh yes *the nose, knows!* :tea:


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## monica (Sep 26, 2009)

I am new to this site.
I need help or this dog is out of here.
I have a sweet 10 month old BABY Havanese, named Kenya.
Kenya is crate trained
I am a stay at home Mom
Kenya HATES to go out in the rain, cold or snow
Kenya will not shake the bell if she has to go
Kenya will pee at the door NEXT to the bell
Kenya likes to jump up on me and now bites at my shirts (many of which have tiny holes at the bottom) I turn around or remove myself but she continues to jump and bite
Kenya went for training at Petsmart but there were to many dogs there...is was crazy
Help me or Kenya is going back to the breeder...says hubby


Monica


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

Monica, I'm bumping this for you. Someone will add to my suggestions.
Sometimes you have to go back to square one and start from there-like keeping her next to you on a lead, not letting her have run of the house. Many dogs on the forum don't like the rain or snow either. Maybe you could consider an indoor potty like Ugodog for bad weather . Pixie uses one like clockwork, but knows it's ok to go outside too. Have patience, sometimes it takes some dogs longer to establish a successful routine and they can go backwards. As far as the nipping, I'll leave that to someone to comment on. She's still young, so don't give up. Good luck.


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## Renee (Mar 27, 2008)

Kenya is such a pretty name for a puppy...we need to see pictures of her!!

Miley doesn't like to go in the rain either. On the advice of someone else, I just bought a large umbrella, and will be putting her on a leash to go poddy next time it rains. She also has a poddy pad on a tray inside, and will use that if she doesn't feel like going outside. That might be a viable option for you. When you catch her in the act of going, move her immediately to the poddy pad or litter box so she knows that is an acceptable place to go.
As far as the nipping, part of that is being a puppy. And part of it is lack of training. Have you taught her to sit and stay? Are you adequately exercising her? Sounds like she is trying to get your attention, even though it's in a negative way. Cesar Milan has some great videos with training ideas that are easy to implement. 
Also, there are MANY great threads on this forum about training techniques. Spend some time searching and finding ideas to try. It will be worth it in the end.


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## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

yah, gotta see pictures of this gal!

great answers so far.

yes, Cesar milan is a good source for understanding a calm assertive way to be with your dog...he teaches the people rather than the dog 

you may want to find another trainer, there are lots out there from accredited sources. I dunno about petsmart.

super puppy has a handy booklet, to deal with nipping but like all methods including cesar, it is better to have a proper trainer advice you, because you *do not* want to go *overboard.* http://home.att.net/~pvee/spbook.html

I could give you suggestions on this post, but by the sounds of your initial post I think it's better to have one-on-one advice.

While some hav's may not like the rain, my Havanese does not mind the rain and the cold, so it is not a breed specific trait. A jacket may help? When we compete in agility my Hav' is actually faster and more fun the colder and wetter the conditions!

You might want to sign up for agility too with this gal? it's a great way to build their confidence and build team work with your dog.

As a stay at home mom, you are busy but at least you are there, so you will definitely be able to get your little gal on track!


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## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

I should also add, if she is teething you may want to look into a raw diet, the bones, like chicken or turkey necks and backs are a great outlet for dogs.


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## leena365 (Sep 17, 2009)

I give both my pups cheerios as a treat when they go on the potty pad but I also confine them in an ex-pen. A recommendation I received from this website. It is working great. I am just leary about giving them too much freedom unless I know they have already gone since they are only 12 and 11 weeks old.


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