# Is this good advice?



## Mama Mills (Jul 5, 2020)

Our breeder has told me several times to feed Ernie 3x daily and feed enough so he leaves a few pieces of kibble in his bowl. When we brought him home at 8 weeks old he was getting an ounce of food with gravy (teaspoon of canned food + teaspoon of pumpkin) per meal. I steadily increased it and we got up to 2.5 ounces of food per meal and he’s still not leaving any behind. His stomach feels bloated when he eats this much. I’ve transitioned him to a combination of Stella and chewys Kibble and freeze-dried raw bites, still using a small amount of pumpkin. I recently picked up a bag of ziwi peaks and plan on incorporating that as well. Any advice on how I can determine the right amount of food for him per meal? Our breeder said he should eat 3x daily until 6 months. He’s 11 weeks old today unfortunately I don’t know how much he weighs. He has 3-4 well-formed poops each day (seems excessive?). In the past we’ve always had larger dogs and I’ll admit I’ve had the tendency to over feed, I really want to avoid this with Ernie.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

When Molly was a puppy she could have 1/4 cup of kibble three times a day. She never ate that much (only about half that much). As an adult she eats 1/4 cup of kibble twice a day. She also gets four pieces of freeze dried lamb mixers with each meal. Keep in mind that she only weighs eight pounds and puppies have a much higher calorie intake allowed than adult dogs.


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

Izzie was eating 1/4 cup kibble three times a day and then reduced at 12 weeks to twice a day per my breeder's recommendation. She has 3 poops a day at 5 months old. Izzie is still eating the same food her breeder recommended it's the same kibble brand my older dog eats. I buy Fromm.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I would contact the breeder and get input. It sounds like she’s concerned about under feeding or families moving to two meals (or even 1) before they’re ready, so if you let her know it’s not about your inconvenience, I would hope she’d help you figure it out. Mine did well eating 3 meals a day until he was almost a year but they were quite small. He is a fast eater and loves food as and would eat as much as he could. He still scavenges after every meal if we let him but his weight is healthy. You could also ask the breeder and your vet about how to monitor the puppy’s weight.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Every puppy is different, but it sounds like what you’re feeding is pretty close to what I fed. I split the daily portion into 3 but it wasn’t divided evenly, I fed a bit more in the morning. 

Maybe a slow feeding bowl would help.


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## Jeanniek (Mar 20, 2018)

I fed my Zumba 3 times a day till she was 1 years old. She is now 2-1/2 years old, and I still feed her twice a day. Zumba would have never left any food behind, though. That girl eats everything un her bowl, licks it clean, and then goes walking around to see if she can get into the cat’s food. She is not over-weight at all. In fact, when she had her check-up at 1-1/2 years, I was told I had to feed her more cause she was too thin! She is highly energetic and does a lot of running, so the vet said to feed her as if she was a puppy, until she slows down. By the way, she did poop 3 - 4 times a day till just a few months back. Now, it mostly 2 - 3 x / day.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Mama Mills said:


> He's 11 weeks old today unfortunately I don't know how much he weighs. He has 3-4 well-formed poops each day (seems excessive?).


Weight is not necessarily the best way to determine overall fitness for either dog or human. I know I carry more weight than is average for a person my height. My heredity is from big boned, large stock ancestors. It is the same for Ricky. Although the Vet's office weighs him and records his weight every time I take him in, it is only to establish a base line expectation. The Vet gives him a thorough "hands on" exam to determine his fitness. He feels for amount of fat on his ribs (the right amount of fat is good), his torso viewed from above (under all that hair), and his activity level. The last time I took Ricky to the Vet (about a year ago because of COVID) he pronounced that Ricky was extremely muscular and fit and therefore just the right weight. I would consult with your Vet to determine the right amount of food for Ernie at this time.

Ricky poops 2 to 4 times a day. Today, for example, he had 3 poops between 6:30 AM and noon. I expect he will have one more before his bedtime. The number of poops will depend on a dogs diet and what it has been eating.

Ernesto sounds pretty normal to me.

Ricky's Popi


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

One thing interesting about my dogs is that they eat the same exact thing and the same exact quantity but my yorkie usually only poops once per day, occasionally twice. Mia poops two or three times per day. Before switching my dogs to raw food, I fed them grain free kibble and Mia would sometimes poop 8 or 9 times per day. It was insane. I do not think Mia can take much fiber in her diet or else she was sensitive to something in the kibble. It made potty training difficult.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Hi Mama Mills, we still feed our dogs twice a day and always have as soon as we brought them home. If your vet also thinks you need to give Ernie 3 meals a day for now I would go with that. We've never had dogs that could graze or leave anything behind without becoming overweight. As Popi stated, several poops a day is good and 3-4 is what all 3 of ours do. 
I feel their ribs and spines frequently since our human scales aren't always accurate. I'm doing it daily now since I'm in the process of transitioning our kiddos to homemade food with a high quality supplement. That's how I knew it was okay to add 1.5 pounds on Cotton so he could keep up with Jodie! Our dogs are on the lean side so we had full support of that change from our vet. 
Look at the nutritional profile for Stella and Ziwi to make sure there's not too much or too little of what they need. They are both good foods although personally I lean towards Stella and Chewy's. While AAFCO feeding trials are controversial, Stella does meet those minimum requirements and FSMA/HACCP (fda-food safety for animals). Ziwi explains why they don't do AAFCO food trials but have no info regarding FSMA/HACCP that I have ever been able find. That's just my opinion and of course we all have our own. 
Ernie is lucky to have such a conscientious Mom. Our kids would like you to know that they are neglected, unloved and starving-constantly😋


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

I think it would be unusual for an adult dog to NOT eat everything in the bowel. That sounds like a good way to develop an overweight dog or human. IMO....


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It is very common (usual) for Havanese puppies to go home eating 3 meals a day. It is also UNcommon for growing puppies to become overweight. With all three of mine, they showed when they were ready to drop to two meals by simply refusing one of the meals. I remember calling Pam King, worried, when Kodi stopped eating his third meal each day. Her very sensible reply was, “He probably doesn’t need it any more!” 

ADULT. dogs are scavengers, and are made to eat all they can, whenever it is available, because it might not be available again for a good long time. That is not true for our pets, who receive a nutritionally balanced diet on a regular schedule. So it is up to us to ALSO control the quantities.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

The only one in our house that self regulates is my cat. Dogs and humans do not.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*pooping*



Ricky Ricardo said:


> Weight is not necessarily the best way to determine overall fitness for either dog or human. I know I carry more weight than is average for a person my height. My heredity is from big boned, large stock ancestors. It is the same for Ricky. Although the Vet's office weighs him and records his weight every time I take him in, it is only to establish a base line expectation. The Vet gives him a thorough "hands on" exam to determine his fitness. He feels for amount of fat on his ribs (the right amount of fat is good), his torso viewed from above (under all that hair), and his activity level. The last time I took Ricky to the Vet (about a year ago because of COVID) he pronounced that Ricky was extremely muscular and fit and therefore just the right weight. I would consult with your Vet to determine the right amount of food for Ernie at this time.
> 
> Ricky poops 2 to 4 times a day. Today, for example, he had 3 poops between 6:30 AM and noon. I expect he will have one more before his bedtime. The number of poops will depend on a dogs diet and what it has been eating.
> 
> ...


Funny that this thread came up Ricky's Popi - because I was thinking about you and Ricky the other day and wondering how much Ricky pooped . I know, that sounds weird, but I switched him to Honest Kitchen last week and am thinking that maybe I should switch him back when this batch is done - because he poops soooo much more than he did on Stella & Chewy! He's pooping around 4 times a day on this new food and pooped 1-2 times a day on Stella & Chewy! So, that made me wonder how much Ricky pooped


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> Funny that this thread came up Ricky's Popi - because I was thinking about you and Ricky the other day and wondering how much Ricky pooped . I know, that sounds weird, but I switched him to Honest Kitchen last week and am thinking that maybe I should switch him back when this batch is done - because he poops soooo much more than he did on Stella & Chewy! He's pooping around 4 times a day on this new food and pooped 1-2 times a day on Stella & Chewy! So, that made me wonder how much Ricky pooped


:surprise: All of mine poop ABOUT twice a day. once in a GREAT while one might poop a third time, but it's rare.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Melissa Brill said:


> Funny that this thread came up Ricky's Popi - because I was thinking about you and Ricky the other day and wondering how much Ricky pooped .


Just to be clear, Ricky eats a total 2/3 cup of HK and about 1/2 cup total of steamed vegetables per day. If he ate HK only (for instance when traveling - car, airplane) he would poop twice a day, so the rest is from vegetables. Momi ALWAYS gives him a treat (piece of dried banana) and makes a big deal out of success every time. So he will do his best to squeeze something out. Most of his stools are pretty small as a result.

As an aside, I had a conversation on this subject with an RN while I was in the hospital for a month. He said that most humans poop on average once per day (from his 20 year experience in an ICU ward) but some variation is normal. He said that after 3 days they consult with the supervising doctor about using a laxative. 
Their laxative of choice is Senokot BUT IT CAN BE HABIT FORMING and should only be used under a doctor's supervision! Their backup is Collace which is less effective but non-habit forming. I thought that was pretty interesting from a human standpoint.

Ricky's Popi


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## itsgooby (Dec 2, 2020)

Melissa Brill said:


> Funny that this thread came up Ricky's Popi - because I was thinking about you and Ricky the other day and wondering how much Ricky pooped . I know, that sounds weird, but I switched him to Honest Kitchen last week and am thinking that maybe I should switch him back when this batch is done - because he poops soooo much more than he did on Stella & Chewy! He's pooping around 4 times a day on this new food and pooped 1-2 times a day on Stella & Chewy! So, that made me wonder how much Ricky pooped


Gooby poops 1x a day on Stella and Chewy, always in the morning after breakfast.


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## Mama Mills (Jul 5, 2020)

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful replies, I’ve learned a lot. I think talking to his vet is my next step. I remember the day I brought home my very first puppy, when I was 18 years old and living outside my parents home for the first time, and Brady (along with his brother Toby) ripped into an unopened 3# bag of science diet and (if my memory serves me correctly) they ate the entire bag! Golden retrievers so much larger puppies but nonetheless.. I’m just not confident that all puppies know when they’ve had enough lol. Ernie is very food motivated and I believe he would eat any amount offered. I’m happy to know 3-4 poops a day is normal. Right now he’s up to 3-4 ozs of food 3x daily and I think we’ll stick to that until his checkup. After reading everyone’s responses I feel less concerned about overfeeding. I look forward to him getting more meat on his bones!


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## Mama Mills (Jul 5, 2020)

itsgooby said:


> Melissa Brill said:
> 
> 
> > Funny that this thread came up Ricky's Popi - because I was thinking about you and Ricky the other day and wondering how much Ricky pooped
> ...


Hi Ali! One poop a day sounds like a vacation lol! It's amazing the amount of poop being dealt w in our house now that Ernie is here! I've got my hands full and my sleeves rolled up haha. I can't really complain bc he always uses his tray, however I notice if I don't add pumpkin his poops are sometimes soft and I have to spray the tray off. I know Ernie and Gooby are very close in age, how much Stella and chewys are you feeding?? I think another thing that's adding to my struggle is the fact that I'm mixing several foods and adding pumpkin... I guess I'm going with my gut on proportions, unfortunately history shows that my gut leads me to overfeed! Trying to be smarter this time around...


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

On Stella and chewy mine has a very large poop in the morning and usually, but not always, a smaller poop at night. When he ate 3 meals a day, he definitely pooped 3 times a day, regardless of the brand of food. When he was a puppy, we had to make sure to give him time to go twice. He just couldn’t get it out all at once, and I noticed he would start to circle again sometimes and go again. Once I figured this out, his poop schedule was really predictable, within an hour of meals. He outgrew the “double pooping” so I think it was developmental. The situation was a bit different, though, because mine started indoor potty training a little late and rarely pooped on the potty tray, he’d just hold it for ages and then there’d be a disaster. He had enough poop issues as a puppy, so I started taking him outside in the morning and at night to make sure he pooped.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Mama Mills said:


> Hi Ali! One poop a day sounds like a vacation lol! It's amazing the amount of poop being dealt w in our house now that Ernie is here! I've got my hands full and my sleeves rolled up haha. I can't really complain bc he always uses his tray, however I notice if I don't add pumpkin his poops are sometimes soft and I have to spray the tray off. I know Ernie and Gooby are very close in age, how much Stella and chewys are you feeding?? I think another thing that's adding to my struggle is the fact that I'm mixing several foods and adding pumpkin... I guess I'm going with my gut on proportions, unfortunately history shows that my gut leads me to overfeed! Trying to be smarter this time around...


Did the vet advise adding pumpkin on a regular basis? I thought pumpkin was only used for occasional bouts of loose stool or constipation. I would question the food if it is needed all the time to produce a healthy stool.


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## itsgooby (Dec 2, 2020)

Mama Mills said:


> Hi Ali! One poop a day sounds like a vacation lol! It's amazing the amount of poop being dealt w in our house now that Ernie is here! I've got my hands full and my sleeves rolled up haha. I can't really complain bc he always uses his tray, however I notice if I don't add pumpkin his poops are sometimes soft and I have to spray the tray off. I know Ernie and Gooby are very close in age, how much Stella and chewys are you feeding?? I think another thing that's adding to my struggle is the fact that I'm mixing several foods and adding pumpkin... I guess I'm going with my gut on proportions, unfortunately history shows that my gut leads me to overfeed! Trying to be smarter this time around...


Jill :wave: He eats the Chicken & Salmon puppy patties, 6 a day - 1.5 patties at each feeding (4 meals a day). We were giving him 1/2 patty at each feeding of the Chewy's Chicken freeze dried raw while waiting for the puppy version to ship and he was OK with that too. I break it up and mix with water before stuffing it in a Kong, Toppl, slow feeder bowl or a Lickimat. It's hard to recommend how to determine the right proportion since there's a few diff varieties of food. I agree I think the mixture of several diff foods may be adding to the struggle. I know Ziwi has a feeding calculator you can check out here!

We just went for his first walk outside and pooped again! This is probably the 2nd time he has pooped 2x in a day. It may have to do with us introducing some non-freeze dried raw treats yesterday and the excitement of being outside.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

IMO the number of poops per day should not be the determining factor for choosing a food. My two dogs eat the same exact thing but have different pooping “styles”. Mia poops a little more often. However, the actual amount over the course of the day is roughly the same. As long as the stool looks healthy i would think you are okay. The frequency may differ between dogs, just like people. However, Mia did poop 8 or 9 times on kibble and the amount of the poop over the course of a day was way too much IMO. This is one of many reasons I tried raw food and the volume is amazing small. Whatever comes out of your dog is what they are not making use of. So if it is a huge amount I find that disturbing.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

:tea: Who would have ever have guessed the number of times a day a dog Poops would be so detailed and interesting. I might try to count. I don't follow Patti when she goes out To Do Her Job. I do, however, seem to pick up a lot of poop after a week or so. Sometimes I check to see if what's coming out looks OK, especially if I've changed her food or she's been ill. 

Once I found the clear rubber part of an Ear Bud that holds the Bud in your ear in her poop. We wondered where that went. We knew Patti had stolen it, chased her down but couldn't find it. I thought it was lost in our shag carpet. Had No Idea she'd actually swallow the darn thing. It apparently went through without a hitch.


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## Mama Mills (Jul 5, 2020)

mudpuppymama said:


> Mama Mills said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Ali! One poop a day sounds like a vacation lol! It's amazing the amount of poop being dealt w in our house now that Ernie is here! I've got my hands full and my sleeves rolled up haha. I can't really complain bc he always uses his tray, however I notice if I don't add pumpkin his poops are sometimes soft and I have to spray the tray off. I know Ernie and Gooby are very close in age, how much Stella and chewys are you feeding?? I think another thing that's adding to my struggle is the fact that I'm mixing several foods and adding pumpkin... I guess I'm going with my gut on proportions, unfortunately history shows that my gut leads me to overfeed! Trying to be smarter this time around...
> ...


I haven't talked to the vet about this yet but I did read online from multiple sources that it's healthy in small doses. I don't plan on doing it longterm but since we've been introducing new foods steadily and he's pooping primarily on the grate I'm trying to keep his poops tidy and well-formed. Some have been a little softer and I think those may have been when I skipped the pumpkin.


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## Mama Mills (Jul 5, 2020)

itsgooby said:


> Mama Mills said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Ali! One poop a day sounds like a vacation lol! It's amazing the amount of poop being dealt w in our house now that Ernie is here! I've got my hands full and my sleeves rolled up haha. I can't really complain bc he always uses his tray, however I notice if I don't add pumpkin his poops are sometimes soft and I have to spray the tray off. I know Ernie and Gooby are very close in age, how much Stella and chewys are you feeding?? I think another thing that's adding to my struggle is the fact that I'm mixing several foods and adding pumpkin... I guess I'm going with my gut on proportions, unfortunately history shows that my gut leads me to overfeed! Trying to be smarter this time around...
> ...


Thanks for sharing Ali. I forgot you were feeding raw patties, good for you! I'm having a hard time picking one thing and sticking to it. I'm glad to hear Gooby is eating well with minimal poops, sounds like you're on track!


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## itsgooby (Dec 2, 2020)

Mama Mills said:


> Thanks for sharing Ali. I forgot you were feeding raw patties, good for you! I'm having a hard time picking one thing and sticking to it. I'm glad to hear Gooby is eating well with minimal poops, sounds like you're on track!


I was pretty worried when he was only pooping once a day! I texted the breeder right away thinking what if he's constipated?! It sounds great and all, less clean up and whatnot but I was really proud when he went 2x lol.


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## Mama Mills (Jul 5, 2020)

itsgooby said:


> Mama Mills said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for sharing Ali. I forgot you were feeding raw patties, good for you! I'm having a hard time picking one thing and sticking to it. I'm glad to hear Gooby is eating well with minimal poops, sounds like you're on track!
> ...


Haha it's like no matter what we are going to worry and wonder! Hey thanks for the heads up on the feeding bowls/games! We've got a puppy kong but I'm definitely going to add some other slow feeders to our arsenal! Our little guy gobbles his meals so fast, lots of benefits to the slow feeders &#128578;


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## Jneling (Dec 8, 2020)

Our 12 week old Havanese eats about 1/4 cup three times a day. She has gained 1.8 lbs in the past month (and that includes a 1/2 lb weigh loss due to a GI bug at the beginning). We just moved from Wellness to Royal Canin. And she has about 4 poops (or 5 if she gets distracted mid poop) each day.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*poop*



itsgooby said:


> Gooby poops 1x a day on Stella and Chewy, always in the morning after breakfast.


That was Perry (though like EvaElizabeth, he does sometimes have a 2nd after dinner/ late at night) - but on HK, he's pooping 4-5 times a day - one of the reason I'm seriously considering switching back to S&C . The main reason I changed, because I think they're equally good is (1)HK is not grain free and I figured with the possibility (I know it's not proven yet) maybe I'd add a good grain food into his diet and (2)the HK is much more compact which is important since when we live overseas I generally take 6 months of his food with me - and the S&C takes up a lot of suitcase space (the patties in the bags are not very efficiently packed  ).


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Melissa Brill said:


> That was Perry (though like EvaElizabeth, he does sometimes have a 2nd after dinner/ late at night) - but on HK, he's pooping 4-5 times a day - one of the reason I'm seriously considering switching back to S&C . The main reason I changed, because I think they're equally good is (*1)HK is not grain free* and I figured with the possibility (I know it's not proven yet) maybe I'd add a good grain food into his diet and (2)the HK is much more compact which is important since when we live overseas I generally take 6 months of his food with me - and the S&C takes up a lot of suitcase space (the patties in the bags are not very efficiently packed  ).


Honest Kitchen comes in Grain Free or Whole Grain: Either - Or. Your choice.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*HK*



Mikki said:


> Honest Kitchen comes in Grain Free or Whole Grain: Either - Or. Your choice.


Good point - maybe I could switch to the grain free next and see if it reduces the poop  and see if it is also more compact than S&C


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## Jneling (Dec 8, 2020)

Zoe's breeder suggested Fromm but our vet felt otherwise. Zoe at Wellness brand puppy food for the first month but we have since switched to Royal Canin. She loves RC. At three months she appears to be at a 3-4 poop a day schedule. As our behaviorist pointed out, what goes in must come out -- hence the 6-7 poops the day after lots of treats when training! Our vet was super specific about not using grain free food.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Jneling said:


> Zoe's breeder suggested Fromm but our vet felt otherwise. Zoe at Wellness brand puppy food for the first month but we have since switched to Royal Canin. She loves RC. At three months she appears to be at a 3-4 poop a day schedule. As our behaviorist pointed out, what goes in must come out -- hence the 6-7 poops the day after lots of treats when training! Our vet was super specific about not using grain free food.


Be cautious with recommendations from vets on grain free food. If it's an individualized recommendation, not just based on a 'better safe than sorry' philosophy, then that's great. Unless there's a reason, I do think it's become common practice to start with grain and only switch if necessary. The problem is that some grain free foods were initially developed for dogs with digestive problems. Our breeder specifically recommended grain free for a reason, not because of the hype around grain free a few years ago. Good breeders know their dogs, and they make these recommendations based on the food sensitivities and patterns they see in their lines, not based on marketing or trends, which is honestly what vets often see. Fromm also has several different formulations, with and without grain, and unless I missed a recall, or some major change, it doesn't make sense to me.

If he's pooping 6-7 times a day because he's eating large volumes of treats, and he's a pretty young puppy, I could maybe see that. Or if he's still in the middle of a diet change (which we had to do over weeks), or he's still very young. I just know when my puppy was pooping 6-7 times a day, even on 3 meals a day, we were at the vet. I might consider changing treats, or cutting then much smaller, because that would be concerning to me.

If a vet is against grain free diets for all breeds under all circumstances, that to me does not reflect the current data. From the very beginning, the message on grain free should have been to exercise caution and weigh risks based on the individual dog's breed, health factors, and needs, and unfortunately that's not what happened. Many vets do shut down any mention of grain free, and to me that's a vet reading the headlines and not the article. Maybe I missed new information on this.

I might call and run your experience with the vet by your breeder. Maybe the breeder will agree with the vet, and hearing that from a good breeder is almost a way of getting a second opinion m, but from an expert on your puppy! I also think they want to hear these things because it helps them know what to prepare people for in the future.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Be cautious with recommendations from vets on grain free food. If it's an individualized recommendation, not just based on a 'better safe than sorry' philosophy, then that's great. Unless there's a reason, I do think it's become common practice to start with grain and only switch if necessary. The problem is that some grain free foods were initially developed for dogs with digestive problems. Our breeder specifically recommended grain free for a reason, not because of the hype around grain free a few years ago. Good breeders know their dogs, and they make these recommendations based on the food sensitivities and patterns they see in their lines, not based on marketing or trends, which is honestly what vets often see. Fromm also has several different formulations, with and without grain, and unless I missed a recall, or some major change, it doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> If he's pooping 6-7 times a day because he's eating large volumes of treats, and he's a pretty young puppy, I could maybe see that. Or if he's still in the middle of a diet change (which we had to do over weeks), or he's still very young. I just know when my puppy was pooping 6-7 times a day, even on 3 meals a day, we were at the vet. I might consider changing treats, or cutting then much smaller, because that would be concerning to me.
> 
> ...


I do not understand the "dead set against grain free" mindset at all. I personally cannot tolerate any grains in my diet. I imagine it is the same way with some dogs. I think people should go with what works for their particular dog.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I feel like I might be losing my mind. I wondered if I missed something so I started searching, and it looks like there isn’t a lot of new research on grain free, maybe because of Covid? But I just read this overview of grain free that was presented at some kind of conference and I’m shocked. It takes the same studies from the last couple of years with very few conclusive results and then implies all dogs with heart diseases are somehow linked to grain free. I have never read a study that said anything like that. I don’t dare link it, it’s like the epitome of misinformation, and I’m not even sensitive to that kind of thing because I’m skeptical of everything by nature. What am I missing??


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I wish we could sticky threads. This one is from 2018, and there is a newer similar one from 2019. It is just full of links to such good information. It's Melissa's post!

https://www.havaneseforum.com/6-general-discussion/133032-grain-free.html

Here are just two of the links from the thread, posted by Dave at the time, to articles by Dr. Dodd and Dr. Becker. Both articles also include links to additional sources

Maybe we could create a new thread with links to these last threads? Dave posted each time there was news (or in one case lack of news, and the professional response to that), and each of those threads contains links to articles, information about and from dog food manufacturers, all kinds of stuff. I also remember Karen shared a link to a study during the summer. I think this subject comes up often because many Havanese have food sensitivities, and because grain free (or not) is confusing since there hasn't been a resolution.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2018/09/19/food-related-heart-disease-in-dogs.aspx?utm_source=petsnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20180919Z1_B&et_cid=DM239786&et_rid=423342879


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

This is completely crazy, the forum is flagging the article from Dr. Dodd’s as inappropriate, and won’t let me link to it. I opened the link in a new window and copied the link again multiple times and it’s still not working. I posted the first article from Dr. Becker separately because I couldn’t figure out what was going on. The Dr. Dodd and HemoPet articles on the progress of grain free research are really well written, if you can get to them from the original Havanese forum thread.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

https://www.havaneseforum.com/6-general-discussion/133032-grain-free-9.html#post1420768

Maybe this will work to link directly to the post in the thread, but if not, it's #84


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> This is completely crazy, the forum is flagging the article from Dr. Becket as inappropriate, and won't let me link to it. I opened the link in a new window and copied the link again multiple times and it's still not working. I posted the first article separately because I couldn't figure out what was going on. The Dr. Dodd and HemoPet articles on the progress of grain free research are really well written, if you can get to them from the original Havanese forum thread.


Wow! I've never seen THAT before! They let Central Puppies post every other week, but won't let you post a link to a research paper?


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

It’s also strange because Dave shared it before! I opened his link and copied it directly from the new window, and also independently navigated to the page in a new window, but they both flag as inappropriate. I don’t see any words with double meaning, so I wonder if it’s because it’s tumblr. 

Grain/grain free is probably not so much of an issue to most people, because it’s not a huge deal to just go with grain, especially if there’s no reason to question the information out there. But this whole issues was difficult for me to sort through, and with Sundance’s food sensitivity, grain wasn’t an option. These kinds of threads over his first year are what initially kept me returning to the forum, when he had ongoing digestive trouble. When I started searching “grain free dog food” online after the announcement, all that came up is the FDA warnings, information from dog food manufacturers, and news reports. Unfortunately, they are based on anecdotal conclusions from completely biased data, the whole point is that they need research. None of the few actual studies or any contextual articles came up in my search results, I had to actively seek them out. I’m truly not “pro grain free,” I am “pro information,” and it was frustrating to me that it was difficult to find.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> It's also strange because Dave shared it before! I opened his link and copied it directly from the new window, and also independently navigated to the page in a new window, but they both flag as inappropriate. I don't see any words with double meaning, so I wonder if it's because it's tumblr.
> 
> Grain/grain free is probably not so much of an issue to most people, because it's not a huge deal to just go with grain, especially if there's no reason to question the information out there. But this whole issues was difficult for me to sort through, and with Sundance's food sensitivity, grain wasn't an option. These kinds of threads over his first year are what initially kept me returning to the forum, when he had ongoing digestive trouble. When I started searching "grain free dog food" online after the announcement, all that came up is the FDA warnings, information from dog food manufacturers, and news reports. Unfortunately, they are based on anecdotal conclusions from completely biased data, the whole point is that they need research. None of the few actual studies or any contextual articles came up in my search results, I had to actively seek them out. I'm truly not "pro grain free," I am "pro information," and it was frustrating to me that it was difficult to find.


I agree completely. I am not "pro-grain free" either. I just have a dog who NEEDS limited ingredients, and very SPECIFIC ingredients missing that happen to be INCLUDED in almost ALL dog foods that also include grains. So I am forced into no grain or home cooking.


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