# Ian Dunbar Methods/Not feeding out of bowl



## Lau (Apr 23, 2009)

Hi. I'm just following on from Lina's post about not feeding out of a bowl. I think what we would both like to know (prior to getting our puppies) is whether anyone has followed the methods of Ian Dunbar, as outlined in his book 'Before & After Getting Your Puppy' and on his website dogstardaily.com?

Amongst other things, Mr Dunbar recommends you don't use a bowl for puppy - but that ALL food (presume only works if you're feeding mainly kibble) is given in kongs, food toys or hollow bones. However, I've just read 'The Havanese' by Diane Klumb and she says that Havs aren't particularly attracted to Kongs, or food motivated when it comes to training. 

So I'm wondering - as great as some of Dunbar's methods sound - are they transferrable to the Hav breed? Anyone read Ian's book and used his advice with their puppy?

Laura


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## HavaBaloo (Mar 24, 2009)

Sorry Laura, I can't really help...well maybe. Baloo doesn't like any doggie toys, I have bought Kongs and all types of other doggies toys and nope he doesn't like any of them. I didn't get Baloo as a young puppy though so that may be why.

Good luck, it is hard to "go by the book" you may need to tweak a method that will be right for you and your situation.


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

I'm only a week into this with my puppy, but I am feeding raw, and I can't stuff that into a kong. Everything he talks about with food training that way assumes you are feeding kibble. 

My puppy is VERY food motivated, and we have already learned "sit" for treats. We're working on "down."  I think his dog of choice was the malamute and he's more familiar with the larger working breeds, Havs are probably a bit different. Violet is definitely going through a teething thing right now where she wants to chew on everything, and no matter how much I give her an acceptable replacement for hands, pee pads, rocks, mulch, etc., she wants to put virtually everything in her mouth. I know she will outgrow it, and I've done the yelping thing when she bites skin too hard. We have to work on "leave it" because she's put some holes in my sleeves and pant legs. 

I think the point of stuffing food into kongs is to keep them busy, and get them liking chew toys, which may or may not work with your eventual puppy. Violet could care less about rubber chew toys, she likes the soft ones that squeak, and I have really had to encourage her to chew on the Merrick Flossies (curly tried beef tendon). She's not particularly interested in the little kong squirrel I put a few of her kibble in (which I've transitioned her off of) unless I'm standing right there, and preferably shaking them out for her! She drops it if she thinks I'm about to leave the room. I do plan to keep experimenting with those, though, because we left her alone for the first time last night when we went out for a very rushed dinner, and I think during that hour and a half she started working out a way to get out of her ex pen by scaling her crate inside of it, so at least for now, she needs something better to keep her busy.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I think you'll find that, just as with babies, you can't necessarily "go by the book". Every dog is different even if they're the same breed. My two couldn't be more different! One will do anything for food, the other couldn't care less unless it's chicken. 

My advice, keep in mind I'm new at this too, is to read whatever you're interested in and then enjoy your puppy! Try not to freak out at any little thing, more than anything they need love and attention. Hopefully your breeder will give you good advice when you bring home your dog and that will get you started. 

You can do a search on this forum for any topic you have questions on as they arise and you'll get TONS of great advice that has worked for people with Havanese puppies.


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## Salsa's Mom (Mar 18, 2008)

I used Ian Dunbar's methods. We took our puppy classes through Sirius Pup which was founded by him. I loved their method of positive training. We did not use a bowl for the first year when Salsa was a puppy. I used mealtime as training time and used her kibble as treats. This worked really well for Salsa because she is very food motivated and tends to be a little on the heavy side so I could get a bit more training in without adding too many additional treats. It might not work for a dog who isn't interested in food. I still use a modified version of it now (17 months old) and have her do a few basic commands or tricks while treating her with a few pieces of kibble out of my hand before I put the bowl down for her to finish the rest. At the very minimum I always ask her to "leave it" before I let her eat from the bowl.

I used food in the kong whenever I left the house to help ease separation anxiety. She has no use for an empty kong to play with however and prefers soft, squeaky toys. There are many ways to stuff a kong. I think there's a website called Kong Stuffing 101 (or something like that) for ideas. Freezing food inside makes it last longer.


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## Newpup (May 6, 2009)

Hi,
I agree that depending on your puppy you may have to tweak a method here and there.

I have only had my puppy 2 weeks, so am still learning as I go. I read the same Ian Dunbar article after I already had him a few days. I do use the bowl to feed, but try to use his kibble for training treats, etc. (I measure out what I think his daily amount should be and take some out of there). It's hard cause if he is 'too hungry' he is too grabby for the treats sometimes, and if he's not hungry he is not that food motivated. I try to find a time he may be a tad hungry but not ravenous.

I also have a toy called the 'Busy Buddy' or something like that that you put food/kibble in and he has to tap or move it a certain way to get his food out. The other day I had to leave around lunchtime. I fed him a 'light lunch' then left kibble in that for him to work with while I was gone.

When I read the article you are referring to it made sense to me. If you can't or don't want to follow it 100%, there are still ways to incorporate the same principles. As well as other ways or methods to practice the same things.

I have read a zillion articles on puppies, etc. It was almost getting over-whelming and stressful to me. Now I am trying to take a step back and work on the basics, and enjoy my puppy while he is in this stage.

Good luck!


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## triona (Dec 22, 2008)

HI,

I read Ian Dunbar's methods of using Kongs for kibble and had a few questions. I have two Havs 9 and 10 months of age. One is more toy and food motivated than the other. The smaller one would have a hard time getting her mouth around even the smallest kong. Has anyone used this method with two dogs? How could one prevent one dog from eating all the kibble?

Triona, Bess and Snugs


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## sweetlotus (Nov 26, 2008)

It definitely didn't work with my dog. I tried Ian Dunbar's method and I think Mochi would have starved if I didn't give up. She wouldn't have anything to do with her food stuffed toys or kongs. Completely ignored it. I tried showing her how to play with it and she would eat the kibble that fell out but she wouldn't try doing it herself. I thought it would be a great way to exercise her brain. Well, I bought a ton of toys to put kibble in and they are all sitting on a shelf somewhere now


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

I can honestly say I've never met a Havanese that enjoyed a Kong and my dogs are VERY food motivated. This is not to say that I disagree with Ian Dunbar's training in general, because I don't, I think he's terrific! My friends Hav is not at all food motivated.

Every Hav I've met has liked small, soft, stuffed toys with squeakers.
Beverly


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

I like Ian Dunbar's methods and the trainer I used was trained by him. We found the methods used in the training class to be very successful with Dusty. The things we have tried with Indie (we didn't do a class with her and haven't been very consistent with training) have worked well too, even though she has a pretty different temperament than Dusty.
Both of mine like Kongs and other food-dropping toys quite well. 
Dusty is much more food-motivated than Indie and will do anything for food, but Indie will also do what she thinks she needs to do to get a treat!
I didn't get Dusty or Indie as little puppies but I have always fed from bowls. They will eat their food however it's given though. Can't help you much with that one!
Havanese are dogs, just like all the other dog breeds. They have general breed characteristics, but individual differences as well. Personally, I think havs are awesome!


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Triona,
To feed both from Kongs or other food-dropping toys, you just need a way to keep them separate. Feed them on two sides of a gate, or put one in a crate or on a leash while you feed the other. Just feeding with two separate toys and in different rooms would work as long as they finish at the same time!


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## mimismom (Feb 15, 2009)

Mimi doesn't seem to be food motivated which has made training harder, but she does like the kong especially in her crate.. 

She likes soft toys the most.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Both of mine love their Kongs and will play with them even when there's nothing inside. They were great when teething but I still use them when I have to leave the house and they go to their crates, the Kong gives them something to do.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

I think everyone is right in that every dog differs with food motivation and training. Mine is highly food motivated. He absolutely loves his kongs (I stuff them with canned dog food), and I also put kibble in toilet paper rolls and fold the ends over to give himself something to do. The key with kongs is finding a food that your dog really loves. Before finding our current kibble, we tried nearly 10 brands that he refused to eat, whether they were in a kong or being handed to him. I do think kongs are a great idea to stimulate them and give them something to do.
Gina


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## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

I thought Nala wasn't food motivated at all. It took finding the right food! She loves kongs,( small and medium ones) busy buddys, rolling treat balls and her Nina Ottoman toy (she has to lift up bones and slide pieces over to get treats!).

I usually only do the kongs when I leave otherwise I feed her in a bowl.

Annie


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

there is are a few good reasons to hand feed especially a puppy . It is good because it teaches them that NILIF nothing in life is free. It gives you a chance to train them. Most dogs are motivated by food. It depends on what they are getting and how hungry they are. The kong is not really a toy. It is a reward and a pacifier. If your dog doesn't eat from one ,you are probably not putting in food enticing enough. Google kong recipes and you will find all kinds of good ideas. Freezing soft food and kibble together can keep them occupied for an hour. Free feeding Ie. leaving a bowl out with food in it so they can graze is not the best way to go or train. Anyway here is some of Ians reasons for handfeeding.

Handfeeding
1. Handfeeding teaches your puppy to like kibble.
Kibble may then be used effectively as lures and
rewards for handling and gentling exercises and
for basic training, especially by children, men,
and strangers.
2. Handfeeding teaches your puppy to like training
and his trainers, especially children, men, and
strangers.
3. Teaching your puppy "Off" and "Take it" will
help prevent her from becoming a food guarder.
4. Teaching your puppy "Take it . . . Gently" is the
very core of your puppy's developing a soft mouth
and learning bite inhibition. (See page 75.)
5. Handfeeding enables you to choose convenient
times for teaching your pup to control his jaws,
rather than having to deal with your puppy
whenever he decides to play-bite and bother you.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Salsa's Mom said:


> I used Ian Dunbar's methods. We took our puppy classes through Sirius Pup which was founded by him. I loved their method of positive training. We did not use a bowl for the first year when Salsa was a puppy. I used mealtime as training time and used her kibble as treats. This worked really well for Salsa because she is very food motivated and tends to be a little on the heavy side so I could get a bit more training in without adding too many additional treats. It might not work for a dog who isn't interested in food. I still use a modified version of it now (17 months old) and have her do a few basic commands or tricks while treating her with a few pieces of kibble out of my hand before I put the bowl down for her to finish the rest. At the very minimum I always ask her to "leave it" before I let her eat from the bowl.
> 
> I used food in the kong whenever I left the house to help ease separation anxiety. She has no use for an empty kong to play with however and prefers soft, squeaky toys. There are many ways to stuff a kong. I think there's a website called Kong Stuffing 101 (or something like that) for ideas. Freezing food inside makes it last longer.


Debby , you've learned from the best and have learned well. You've got the right idea.


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