# What color will he/she be?



## Josabermo (Apr 26, 2020)

Hello all!

I received word from our breeder that the puppies are ready to go home in early September!! Based on my description of our family, she offered 2 potential puppies for us to choose from. So difficult - they are both adorable! I am leaning to this brown/red? one but don't know much about Havanese coats other than they can change drastically. Is this little guy/gal a sable, a brindle or something else? Any guess as to what the coat will look like when they are older? 

Thanks!


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

Congratulations! A very cute puppy. How old are the puppies?


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Ideally the breeder will match the puppy's personality and temperament to your family. Color should not be a factor. Here is a link to a website that shows the variety of Havanese colors that exist. Another forum member will probably be along shortly to answer your questions about this sweet puppy! Please keep us posted as we love updates and questions and especially photos!


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

From your post, it seems like the breeder did some family matching? I would ask the breeder to give you a description of both personalities since she is there constantly and knows the litter better than anyone. Then select by that information. I am definitely no expert but temperament is more important than color or gender. You want the best fit for your family. The colors will change and are unpredictable which is exciting! Again congratulations!


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## Josabermo (Apr 26, 2020)

The puppies were born around 4th of July. I think they will be 12 weeks old when we get them in early September - we are so excited!!


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## Josabermo (Apr 26, 2020)

Yes, I told the breeder about our family and let her know we wanted an easy going beta dog since we already have an alpha dog at home along with a grumpy cat. She chose 2 puppies with sweet temperaments, though the other one will be smaller in size. These guys are so cute, it's hard to chose. I love the way sable Havanese look and was hoping to get one that is light for the most part but dark at the tips. But who am I kidding.... I will go nuts for any one of these guys! Just wanted to see if anyone had a guess of what this little guy will look like when he is older.


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

This is very exciting. I have a senior dog as well. I am looking for a sweet-natured pup as well. I am no expert but this puppy looks sable to me. Sables will lighten a look but oh so beautiful. I only saw one picture so I guess you made a decision already. Havanese colors change a lot. Yes, I agree it's hard to choose but sounds like you are working with a good breeder. I can't wait to see which puppy comes home with you!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Josabermo said:


> Yes, I told the breeder about our family and let her know we wanted an easy going beta dog since we already have an alpha dog at home along with a grumpy cat. She chose 2 puppies with sweet temperaments, though the other one will be smaller in size. These guys are so cute, it's hard to chose. I love the way sable Havanese look and was hoping to get one that is light for the most part but dark at the tips. But who am I kidding.... I will go nuts for any one of these guys! Just wanted to see if anyone had a guess of what this little guy will look like when he is older.


Sables Do mostly lighten. How much is VERY individual. You won't know until you know!  As far as the black tips are concerned, they will get cut off with the first major haircut and won't return. But they would EVENTUALLY grow out and go away anyway. Many sables keep some black hairs in their ears, tails and along their spines. SOME stay sort of "grizzly" all over, even as adults.

Go to the Havanese website to see a lot of different sables: Starborn Havana Silk Dogs

Redman is a red sable, and has retained a remarkable depth of red (which he also passes on)
Under "retired dogs" look at Tibi and Savi. Both are a little unusual in the amount of dark hair they retained even as adult sables. (and there are puppy photos of all of them also)

It is MORE common for sables to fade to "almost white dogs", but I don't happen to have a friend who has a website with photos that illustrate that!

Oh! Also, the "mask" gene seems to be separate from the rest of the sable thing... most puppies with masks retain at least SOME amount of mask, even as adults. So this puppy will probably always have some amount of the cute black mask! (which I personally adore!!!) Your original post mentioned something about the possibility of the puppy being a brindle. Only the breeder can answer that question for you at this point. Right now, with fluffy hair, there is really no way to tell. RIGHT after they are born, when their hair is very short, a brindle can be distinguished by the "tiger stripes" seen on a brindle of any other breed (think of the "stripes" on a brindle Great Dane or Greyhound) but when they start to get fluffy, those stripes get all smooshed together and are not obvious anymore. And they have the same fading qualities as sables. But brindles DO almost always have masks. (sables CAN have masks, brindles DO have masks)


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## Josabermo (Apr 26, 2020)

When I contacted the breeder about wanting to go with this little sable guy she said she was so sorry but she had to give him to another person who has been waiting for a sable puppy for some time. We are pretty disappointed as our family had made a decision about the 2 puppies and chose him. The breeder offered another little female puppy who was spunkier than the mellow sable guy but would still be a good match for our family, especially since we have kids. I asked for more pictures and said we'd decide once my family has a chance to see her. Sad but still hopeful... Will keep everyone posted...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Josabermo said:


> When I contacted the breeder about wanting to go with this little sable guy she said she was so sorry but she had to give him to another person who has been waiting for a sable puppy for some time. We are pretty disappointed as our family had made a decision about the 2 puppies and chose him. The breeder offered another little female puppy who was spunkier than the mellow sable guy but would still be a good match for our family, especially since we have kids. I asked for more pictures and said we'd decide once my family has a chance to see her. Sad but still hopeful... Will keep everyone posted...


All colors are "the best" once you get them home! Remember, so far, you were only falling in love with a photo, not a puppy! :hug:


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Josabermo said:


> When I contacted the breeder about wanting to go with this little sable guy she said she was so sorry but she had to give him to another person who has been waiting for a sable puppy for some time. We are pretty disappointed as our family had made a decision about the 2 puppies and chose him. The breeder offered another little female puppy who was spunkier than the mellow sable guy but would still be a good match for our family, especially since we have kids. I asked for more pictures and said we'd decide once my family has a chance to see her. Sad but still hopeful... Will keep everyone posted...


I'm sorry! I really wish you were having the opportunity to meet the pups (I understand COVID!) merely because I think you'd be way less concerned with the color, because you'd get to see the little pups and their personalities.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> I'm sorry! I really wish you were having the opportunity to meet the pups (I understand COVID!) merely because I think you'd be way less concerned with the color, because you'd get to see the little pups and their personalities.


I agree with that! And I DO understand the problems with Covid too! Many puppy buyers DON'T get a choice of puppies, though. It's just a choice of "yes or no" to a particular puppy. I know how hard Covid is making it for both the buyers AND the breeders!!! It must be totally nerve-wracking trying to make these "arranged marriages" between puppies and new owners with minimal contact! I give them tremendous credit to continue breeding during this time to try to meet SOME of the huge demand for puppies!!!


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## Josabermo (Apr 26, 2020)

Melissa Woods said:


> I'm sorry! I really wish you were having the opportunity to meet the pups (I understand COVID!) merely because I think you'd be way less concerned with the color, because you'd get to see the little pups and their personalities.


I know, personality is more important than color and that all puppies are cute! The breeder is about 5 hours away from us. We were going to go see the puppies in person but because of COVID-19, we ended up not being able to see them - the couple is older so I totally understand. She did send a few videos so we were able to get a glimpse of the personalities of the puppies. Hard to tell from a short clip but it's better than nothing! I know we will love whomever we bring home


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## Josabermo (Apr 26, 2020)

Vartina Ancrum said:


> This is very exciting. I have a senior dog as well. I am looking for a sweet-natured pup as well. I am no expert but this puppy looks sable to me. Sables will lighten a look but oh so beautiful. I only saw one picture so I guess you made a decision already. Havanese colors change a lot. Yes, I agree it's hard to choose but sounds like you are working with a good breeder. I can't wait to see which puppy comes home with you!


I love the look of sable Havanese, especially as they lighten and get older. It was their temperament and the lightening of the sable coat that initially got my attention when doing some research on the breed. But as everyone says, all of the dogs are beautiful!


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## Josabermo (Apr 26, 2020)

krandall said:


> It must be totally nerve-wracking trying to make these "arranged marriages" between puppies and new owners with minimal contact! I give them tremendous credit to continue breeding during this time to try to meet SOME of the huge demand for puppies!!!


Yes, I understand. The breeder was very apologetic saying that it was so hard because people were asking for a particular puppy and some were making demands. Our family was pretty easy going and just assumed that she would match everyone according to temperament, didn't think to ask for a particular puppy.


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## Josabermo (Apr 26, 2020)

krandall said:


> All colors are "the best" once you get them home! Remember, so far, you were only falling in love with a photo, not a puppy! :hug:


I know... it was hard not to fall in love with a photo, especially with a face like that! But we will love whomever we get, we are just excited and grateful to be selected as a family to bring a little puppy home. The wait list is long and the demand is crazy due to COVID. Though this is an ideal time for us as a family as well since we are all at home and can potty train him/her during the "difficult" early months. Grandma will be at home to cuddle the little guy/gal when we eventually go back to school and work.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

krandall said:


> I agree with that! And I DO understand the problems with Covid too! Many puppy buyers DON'T get a choice of puppies, though. It's just a choice of "yes or no" to a particular puppy. I know how hard Covid is making it for both the buyers AND the breeders!!! It must be totally nerve-wracking trying to make these "arranged marriages" between puppies and new owners with minimal contact! I give them tremendous credit to continue breeding during this time to try to meet SOME of the huge demand for puppies!!!


Certainly. I had no choice with Roxie. It was yay or nay. I wasn't even planning on GETTING a puppy, but I have a close relationship with this breeder and she thought of us immediately for her. And she was full on new owners so I was flattered LOL. It probably helped that I send her regular pictures and updates about Oliver. And she was right. Oliver has been AMAZING since we got her. It's night and day, with his anxiety. I left them home with the kids while I went to the library to work (I'm on deadline for revisions for a novel and these kids are making it super hard). Anyway, DS is 17 and was babysitting the littles. He said Oliver babysat her most of the time, LOL. He'd even sit with her at her pen and she'd stop crying when DS couldn't let her out.

We DID see her prior to deciding. My breeder brought her in the front yard and I got to hold her. Keeping in mind that we picked her up at 8 weeks (which I do not regret, I'm having the time to do socialization I want. The puppy K 1 class is for 8-12 week old puppies, and I missed it with Oliver by picking him up at. 12 weeks).

I understand the OP thought she had the choice between two similar temperament puppies, though. So it's tough when you only have the picture!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> Certainly. I had no choice with Roxie. It was yay or nay. I wasn't even planning on GETTING a puppy, but I have a close relationship with this breeder and she thought of us immediately for her. And she was full on new owners so I was flattered LOL.


That's kind of what happened with Panda. I was NOT looking for a puppy... Pixel was still a puppy. But when I first saw Panda I was smitten. She was already "planned" as a show/breed dog for someone else. But my friend, her breeder, saw the connection between the two of us. She called me the next day and said, "No pressure, but if you want her..." What's a gal to do? LOL!



Melissa Woods said:


> I understand the OP thought she had the choice between two similar temperament puppies, though. So it's tough when you only have the picture!


Oh, I TOTALLY understand! You get your mind all set in one direction, and then find out it's going a different way! When we got Pixel, we knew that it was between her and Birdy, who the Kings kept. They are VERY CLOSE to identical. For a while Pam thought she was going to keep the puppy that became Pixel. Then she decided that she liked Birdy's tail set better. (Pixel's tail is a little tight) OF COURSE Pam got first pick, it was her littler. The two puppies were peas in a pod. But still, my brain had adjusted to one idea, and it took me a LITTLE while to rearrange my thinking to the new puppy. And while I HAD met them, I really didn't know them well, had no strong preference based on personality and as I said, they LOOK almost identical!

But when I went to pick her up, and saw her in person again, I fell in love "all over again". How could I not?


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

When my daughter got her Labradoodle she was set on a red or caramel color puppy. The litter happened to be cream and a couple of chocolates. Doodles don't stay the same colors either. I told her if she was serious about pet parenthood that I would pay the remaining balance as a birthday gift. I waited because she was so stuck on color. However, the puppies were born on her birthday and she fell in love. Her dog was at one time a lovely apricot-colored puppy, now she is a gorgeous cream-colored lady with a hint of apricot on her ears. My daughter loves her and never mentioned colors again. Colors change and colors don't matter even when you think they do.


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## Josabermo (Apr 26, 2020)

krandall said:


> That's kind of what happened with Panda. I was NOT looking for a puppy... Pixel was still a puppy. But when I first saw Panda I was smitten. She was already "planned" as a show/breed dog for someone else. But my friend, her breeder, saw the connection between the two of us. She called me the next day and said, "No pressure, but if you want her..." What's a gal to do? LOL!
> 
> Oh, I TOTALLY understand! You get your mind all set in one direction, and then find out it's going a different way! When we got Pixel, we knew that it was between her and Birdy, who the Kings kept. They are VERY CLOSE to identical. For a while Pam thought she was going to keep the puppy that became Pixel. Then she decided that she liked Bidy's tail set better. (Pixel's tail is a little tight) OF COURSE Pam got first pick, it was her littler. The two puppies were peas in a pod. But still, my brain had adjusted to one idea, and it took me a LITTLE while to rearrange my thinking to the new puppy. And while I HAD met them, I really didn't know them well, had no strong preference based on personality and as I said, they LOOK almost identical!
> 
> But when I went to pick her up, and saw her in person again, I fell in love "all over again". How could I not?


How can you not fall in love with that face! Yes you are right that our mind was set in the direction of the brown sable puppy as she had originally offered us a choice so now its a matter a changing course. We will love whomever we are blessed with - we have lots of love to go around!


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## CaptainHavanese (Apr 24, 2020)

krandall said:


> That's kind of what happened with Panda. I was NOT looking for a puppy... Pixel was still a puppy. But when I first saw Panda I was smitten. She was already "planned" as a show/breed dog for someone else. But my friend, her breeder, saw the connection between the two of us. She called me the next day and said, "No pressure, but if you want her..." What's a gal to do? LOL!
> 
> Oh, I TOTALLY understand! You get your mind all set in one direction, and then find out it's going a different way! When we got Pixel, we knew that it was between her and Birdy, who the Kings kept. They are VERY CLOSE to identical. For a while Pam thought she was going to keep the puppy that became Pixel. Then she decided that she liked Bidy's tail set better. (Pixel's tail is a little tight) OF COURSE Pam got first pick, it was her littler. The two puppies were peas in a pod. But still, my brain had adjusted to one idea, and it took me a LITTLE while to rearrange my thinking to the new puppy. And while I HAD met them, I really didn't know them well, had no strong preference based on personality and as I said, they LOOK almost identical!
> 
> But when I went to pick her up, and saw her in person again, I fell in love "all over again". How could I not?


Omg, Krandall she's so cute!! I could look at puppy pictures all day.

@OP, your pup will probably just change colors unpredictably, it's hard to tell! I'd just use the parents/relatives as benchmarks if you have any pics of them.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Ohhhh pixel such a doll. She reminds me a lot of Roxie with the coloring, obviously, but also the petite, feminine little face. I think Roxie will be around ten pounds, so not as tiny as we first thought, but it’s her features that are so delicate, if that makes sense. I can’t believe I wanted a red dog soooo much. I was certain I’d go find a clear red puppy in a year or so, but sometimes life throws curveballs. I love her shiny black coat even if it’s a bit tough to get the right lighting for pictures.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

What is a tight tail set?


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## Josabermo (Apr 26, 2020)

CaptainHavanese said:


> Omg, Krandall she's so cute!! I could look at puppy pictures all day.


I am looking at puppy pictures all day, terribly distracting since I'm supposed to be working from home!



CaptainHavanese said:


> @OP, your pup will probably just change colors unpredictably, it's hard to tell! I'd just use the parents/relatives as benchmarks if you have any pics of them.


I have seen pics of the parents. Like most Havis, they did change color and lighten up. They are beautiful


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## Vartina Ancrum (Oct 10, 2019)

I definitely understand. They are such a pleasant distraction!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> Ohhhh pixel such a doll. She reminds me a lot of Roxie with the coloring, obviously, but also the petite, feminine little face. I think Roxie will be around ten pounds, so not as tiny as we first thought, but it's her features that are so delicate, if that makes sense. I can't believe I wanted a red dog soooo much. I was certain I'd go find a clear red puppy in a year or so, but sometimes life throws curveballs. I love her shiny black coat even if it's a bit tough to get the right lighting for pictures.


From your very first photos of Roxie, she reminded me very much of Pixel. And yes, there are certainly smaller Havanese than Pixel... (Panda is actually shorter) but she is just very delicate and fine boned. She just SEEMS "petite". (And has also been 10 lbs give or take an oz or two, her entire adult life) ...And she just makes everyone who meets her smile!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Sorry about your roller coaster ride. Sounds like you have a good attitude. Looking forward to hearing your updates and seeing your photos!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

...And your little girl will wrap you around her little paw. Boys and girls ARE different, though it's subtle. The boys are love-bugs, there is no doubt about it. But the girls... They DEMAND a place in your heart!!! <3


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## Josabermo (Apr 26, 2020)

krandall said:


> ...And your little girl will wrap you around her little paw. Boys and girls ARE different, though it's subtle. The boys are love-bugs, there is no doubt about it. But the girls... They DEMAND a place in your heart!!! <3


This seems to be the case with human kids too - I have 2 sons and a daughter. She knows that she is the youngest and the only girl so she always "wins"... Dad spoils her rotten! I bet this will happen when our furbaby comes home!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Josabermo said:


> This seems to be the case with human kids too - I have 2 sons and a daughter. She knows that she is the youngest and the only girl so she always "wins"... Dad spoils her rotten! I bet this will happen when our furbaby comes home!


Yes, I would say that is similar! LOL! In our house, Pixel can do NO WRONG in Daddy's eyes!


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## bpentino (Mar 23, 2020)

krandall said:


> Sables Do mostly lighten.
> 
> Oh! Also, the "mask" gene seems to be separate from the rest of the sable thing... most puppies with masks retain at least SOME amount of mask, even as adults. So this puppy will probably always have some amount of the cute black mask! (which I personally adore!!!) Your original post mentioned something about the possibility of the puppy being a brindle. Only the breeder can answer that question for you at this point. Right now, with fluffy hair, there is really no way to tell. RIGHT after they are born, when their hair is very short, a brindle can be distinguished by the "tiger stripes" seen on a brindle of any other breed (think of the "stripes" on a brindle Great Dane or Greyhound) but when they start to get fluffy, those stripes get all smooshed together and are not obvious anymore. And they have the same fading qualities as sables. But brindles DO almost always have masks. (sables CAN have masks, brindles DO have masks)


The breeder identified our dog as Sable- gold brindle. We were confused by this because we don't see the gold brindle. He lost hair on his hip which is now growing back. You could really see the gold brindle. Below is a picture where you can see the brindle. Wish I had a pic from 2 weeks ago because you could see it even better then.

Your puppy looks cute. Sounds like the breeder is taking into consideration personality & your family needs. Either way you will happy, I think. Best of luck!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Your puppy looks beautiful! The colors of the Rainbow site was very informative and I loved looking at the photos of the changing colors. It’s fun trying to figure out what your puppy will look like when he or she is an adult. Best of luck to you.


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