# Potty training problems?



## Tabbyrawr (Feb 9, 2010)

We're still looking for a Havanese breeder to to find that perfect puppy, and we talked to a friend who owns a Havanese. Her dog is very unfriendly, and has possibly developed small dog syndrome (where the small dog thinks he/she is dominant). However, he pees whenever he wants, wherever he wants. Is this a common Hav problem?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.


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## ginaf (Mar 24, 2010)

I have a new puppy and he is doing great, I think it is all about the "trainer" and how much time you want to devote at first. Not knocking your friend but it sounds like he is not real socialized. I have potty trained 3 and it wasn't easy but so worth it!


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## Tabbyrawr (Feb 9, 2010)

I have a new puppy and he is doing great, I think it is all about the "trainer" and how much time you want to devote at first. Not knocking your friend but it sounds like he is not real socialized. I have potty trained 3 and it wasn't easy but so worth it!

Yes, I have definitely considered the likelihood of the dog not being socialized as a puppy and think that might be the reason why, since it contradicts pretty every other report of Havs.
We are not at home for about 7-8 hours each day though - can Havs hold their pee that long?


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## ginaf (Mar 24, 2010)

Dogs can do this later but not at first, but if you have done research on havs you will notice that they do not like being alone., you might be better with a breed that will entertain himself. I have always stayed home with mine and then when I am gone they have a doggie door to use. I have never crated my dogs but most people do, I don't know what to tell you about using a crate.


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## Tabbyrawr (Feb 9, 2010)

We spoke to a couple people who advised us about the separation anxiety problem - we are hoping that if we get a Hav, he/she will be okay. We'd have someone stop by in the middle of the day for the first couple of months - do you think that would be a good plan?


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## Me+Sydney (Mar 5, 2010)

I work full-time and have a 10-month-old Havanese. She does quite well with being alone now, but she still gets a mid-day visit.

When I first brought her home, I was fortunate in that my sister was not working at the time. I would leave Sydney alone when I left for work in the morning, so she got used to the routine, but my sister would come shortly after I left and spend most of the day with her. As the first two weeks went by, she came gradually later and later, but the most she was alone at one time at that age (10-12 weeks) was probably 1.5 hours. After those two weeks we stretched the time further, and I had my friend/neighbour come in twice during the day to spend time with her. She would come for an hour or so in the morning and again in the afternoon. Gradually, this became an hour in the morning and a half hour in the afternoon, and then ultimately just one visit. 

I always left her in the kitchen (we live in an apartment so it's not a huge amount of space) and left her crate with the door open, along with water, toys and a pee pad. More often than not, she hit the pad when she needed to go but the initial frequency of the visits helped with the potty training process for sure. Today the configuration remains the same, but without the pee pad.

Now I have a dog walker that takes Sydney out mid-day for an hour-long walk with some other dogs. Yes, it is an expense, but it was one that I always knew was part of the deal. (Actually the past two months we have been in New Brunswick for a short-term work assignment and I have been going home myself at lunch to take her out, but we are back to the dog walker on Monday!) 

At 10 months, we are at a point now where I think she could probably handle the whole day without the walk (half the time when I get home at lunch she stays in her crate to continue her nap until I coax her out for her walk), but I just feel too guilty to try it yet!


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Sounds like your friends have a case of a serious lack of training. That behavior is characteristic of ANY dog that is allowed to become the alpha and take control of the household. You can equate it to a teenager who has never had any rules to follow in the family, they don't usually respect their parents much. The same goes for dogs.

Not really fair to leave a pup for 7-8 hours per day an expect it to hold its pee. However, the good news for you is that most Havs are easy to train with litter pans and wee pads, especially if you start from the time they are babies. Roscoe is wee pad trained (we put it inside an empty litter box), and it has worked out wonderfully for us. I know that people say that dogs and hold their pee for a long time - so can I, but that doesn't mean I WANT to or that my bladder doesn't ache after sitting in a long meeting for hours. So, personally I don't think it's fair to expect my little guy to hold it all day. He's great with his potty and was completely potty trained by 12 weeks, only had a couple of accidents since then, which were not his fault.


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## Lilly'sMom (Jan 28, 2010)

Lilly is 8 months. I work full time. We already had a dog to keep Lilly company and she's never shown any signs of separation anxiety. I think I have more separation anxiety than she does. I have a picure of her at my desk and miss her all day. Maybe you should get two?????? I didn't crate her at all and used puppy pads which she learned to use pretty quickly even thought I wasn't as diligent as I could have been. What's great about the puppy pads is that you don't have to get up to let them out at night.


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## Tabbyrawr (Feb 9, 2010)

Lilly'sMom said:


> Lilly is 8 months. I work full time. We already had a dog to keep Lilly company and she's never shown any signs of separation anxiety. I think I have more separation anxiety than she does. I have a picure of her at my desk and miss her all day. Maybe you should get two?????? I didn't crate her at all and used puppy pads which she learned to use pretty quickly even thought I wasn't as diligent as I could have been. What's great about the puppy pads is that you don't have to get up to let them out at night.


Hmmmm, we haven't considered puppy pads. I don't want to be too reliant on them, but that sounds like a great idea.  Nor have we considered getting two dogs - it just seems like way too much work, since members of our family work full day. You seem to manage it really well though. Do you think it's a lot more work, having two dogs?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tabbyrawr said:


> Hmmmm, we haven't considered puppy pads. I don't want to be too reliant on them, but that sounds like a great idea.  Nor have we considered getting two dogs - it just seems like way too much work, since members of our family work full day. You seem to manage it really well though. Do you think it's a lot more work, having two dogs?


We use a litter box with wood pellets rather than pee pads, but what's wrong with a dog being reliant on having a correct indoor place to go potty? Kodi, and I think most of the dogs I've read about on the forum, eventually get to the point where they would PREFER to use the "outdoor potty" if it is available. But why make your dog choose between suffering uncomfortably until you show up to give him access to the potty or making a mess somewhere, which he KNOWS will upset you. (and probably him to)

I am a firm believer in having both options available. I LIKE not having to get up at 6:30 on weekend mornings just because that is his week-day potty schedule, and I feel much more confident leaving him for a few hours when I need to, knowing that HE knows the potty is available when he needs it. Likewise, when it's pouring buckets and neither I nor he really wants to go out in it, I just say "Use your indoor potty." and he goes and does it. I really don't understand why anyone wouldn't want that kind of convenience with a small dog.


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## gabdyl (Jun 16, 2008)

Tabby, 
The few breeders I spoke to in person wanted to know our lifestyle and each one indicated they wouldn't sell/adopt to a family that would be leaving the Hav alone for much of the day, most days of the week (unless I misunderstood). 

I have grown up w/dogs and I just have to tell you, I have never seen a breed like the Havanese in terms of their need for love and attention and connecting to their family.

Our Peanut has our other dog Chloe to play with all day and also I work out of our home so I am always here w/him ~ and still sometimes when he isn't getting enough attention, he sits on top of the couch looking a little sad. We have been thinking he needs another Hav so they can love each other up  

I hope I don't offend you but I just want to give you something to think about.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

krandall said:


> We use a litter box with wood pellets rather than pee pads, but what's wrong with a dog being reliant on having a correct indoor place to go potty? Kodi, and I think most of the dogs I've read about on the forum, eventually get to the point where they would PREFER to use the "outdoor potty" if it is available. But why make your dog choose between suffering uncomfortably until you show up to give him access to the potty or making a mess somewhere, which he KNOWS will upset you. (and probably him to)
> 
> I am a firm believer in having both options available. I LIKE not having to get up at 6:30 on weekend mornings just because that is his week-day potty schedule, and I feel much more confident leaving him for a few hours when I need to, knowing that HE knows the potty is available when he needs it. Likewise, when it's pouring buckets and neither I nor he really wants to go out in it, I just say "Use your indoor potty." and he goes and does it. I really don't understand why anyone wouldn't want that kind of convenience with a small dog.


AGREED ENTIRELY!!

Roscoe LOVES to potty outside. The second we walk out of the building he goes straight for the nearest grass and does his best to poop! Sounds great but it's kind of annoying because sometimes he forces himself to go and then we get squishy poo and dirty bum! yuck.

Just make sure you train with the "go potty" command and you will easily be able to transition from the wee pads to outside!


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

I have an 18 wk old 1/2 hav, 1/2 shih tzu. 
I have a full time job, gone about 8-10 hours, 5 days a week.
smart little puppy. the little dogs can suffer from hypoglycemia, so you'll have to either leave food out all day, or someone come by and serve lunch (usually hafta eat 3x/day to fight off the low blood sugar level). My neighbor and her two young children came over the first 3 weeks to feed and hang out with the puppy. I still leave food out for him. 
my other dog is a big dog (get along great), but it's clear that my puppy does count me as part of the pack, and every day I come home from work, or come back from running errands on the weekends, he greets me with am exuberant happy dance (walk on his hind legs and jumps alot, but not on me). 
I tried to crate him in the beginning but he just would FREAK out, cry really loud. so I left his crate open and available but he never used it. He does not like being left all alone. but when I go to Peets or starbucks to socialize him, he waits outside very nicely at a sit till I come back to sit with him.
He sleeps on my bed, since day 1, but he knows not to try for the pillow without permission, and he's still too short to jump on the furniture or bed.

potty training: he's 80% trained. I have a puppy pad down for him all the time, and usually they have free reign of the house and yard, with the sliding glass door open 24/7 weather permitting. I love the puppy pads b/c like other have said, it's convenient. sometimes though, he gmay go in a place closer than the puppy pad, usually in the middle of the night, or if it's cold outside (early morning, 5am when I get up) or if it's raining out, he'll leave me a gift in the house. Since he's been able to go on walks I've been very very good about taking him out first thing in the morning so he can learn good habits, but honestly he hates the rain and he hates the cold. can't blame him.
Training: find puppy to be uber smart, has already learned a host of tricks - down, sit, stay, roll over, fetch, leave it, come, jump (360 with a 1/2 twist), stand, walk (hind legs only), on your side (lay on your side) shake, high five, and other useless but fun tricks.
He's snuggly and affectionate but he doesn't need to be on me like white rice, he's not a velcro dog. I would say he equally prefers dogs to people. He's been very well socialized with ppl and dogs and ofcourse very very friendly and outgoing but appropriate.

I like my new pup so much, I'm thinking about getting another little one, this time pure hav.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

sprorchid said:


> the little dogs can suffer from hypoglycemia, so you'll have to either leave food out all day, or someone come by and serve lunch (usually hafta eat 3x/day to fight off the low blood sugar level).


I have never heard this before. Kodi stopped eating lunch on his own around 12 weeks, and I was told by the breeder that was pretty common. I think almost all the dogs on the forum eat twice a day with no problem, though a few free-feed, and one or two feed only once a day. I've never heard anything abut hypoglycemia in Havs. Is this something in Shih tzus?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

To answer your first question, I would say that this owner simply didn't train her puppy. And yes toy breeds are more prone to hypoglycemia and it can help to feed more frequently especially when they are young. But it is never recommended to leave food out all day. The best way to train a puppy is to use his total daily allotment for training. ie, no food bowls.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> To answer your first question, I would say that this owner simply didn't train her puppy. And yes toy breeds are more prone to hypoglycemia and it can help to feed more frequently especially when they are young. But it is never recommended to leave food out all day. The best way to train a puppy is to use his total daily allotment for training. ie, no food bowls.


HI Dave, I'm not questioning you, but why, if hypoglycemia is such a problem with small dogs, haven't we heard more about it on the forum, and why do so many dogs just naturally drop their mid-day meal on their own between 12-16 weeks? Personally, the only dog I know who needs a third meal as an adult is my brothers hound mix, who vomits in the afternoon if he doesn't have a noon meal.

As far as not feeding ANY meals but using all food for training, I did a LOT of training with Kodi as a little puppy... I'd wager to say much more than the average pet owner. Even so, Kodi still needed SOME breakfast and supper too... I just factored the food used for training into his daily allotment. I know that Ian Dunbar says to put the rest of the food in Kongs, but Kodi showed no interest or aptitude when it came to removing food from Kongs when he was little. (Now he doesn't bother... he just tears the Kong up. Perhaps not the intended use of a Kong, but effective, none the less!)


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

krandall said:


> HI Dave, I'm not questioning you, but why, if hypoglycemia is such a problem with small dogs, haven't we heard more about it on the forum, and why do so many dogs just naturally drop their mid-day meal on their own between 12-16 weeks? Personally, the only dog I know who needs a third meal as an adult is my brothers hound mix, who vomits in the afternoon if he doesn't have a noon meal.
> 
> As far as not feeding ANY meals but using all food for training, I did a LOT of training with Kodi as a little puppy... I'd wager to say much more than the average pet owner. Even so, Kodi still needed SOME breakfast and supper too... I just factored the food used for training into his daily allotment. I know that Ian Dunbar says to put the rest of the food in Kongs, but Kodi showed no interest or aptitude when it came to removing food from Kongs when he was little. (Now he doesn't bother... he just tears the Kong up. Perhaps not the intended use of a Kong, but effective, none the less!)


Hi Karen , I'm not sure how prevalent hypoglycemia is in toys , just that it's more common in this group. I think after a few months of age ,it is less common. What he is saying and I agree , is that the more food you use to train with the better. Train three four five times a day for five mins. using it for luring and rewarding. Rather than just putting it out two or three times a day. Especially when they are really young.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

krandall said:


> HI Dave, I'm not questioning you, but why, if hypoglycemia is such a problem with small dogs, haven't we heard more about it on the forum, and why do so many dogs just naturally drop their mid-day meal on their own between 12-16 weeks? Personally, the only dog I know who needs a third meal as an adult is my brothers hound mix, who vomits in the afternoon if he doesn't have a noon meal.


Roscoe still eats three meals per day: 7am, 12:30pm, 6pm. If for some reason he is late on a meal, he is starving. He gets excited to eat every single time. He's 6.5 months old. And we didn't eliminate his fourth meal until he was about 4 months old.

I guess he just likes to have a fully tummy rather than over stuffing himself twice per day. I agree with him - I'd rather have a reasonable sized breakfast, lunch, and dinner, than try to eat enough at breakfast to keep me going until dinner time!


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