# Vaccine Reaction



## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

I just have to tell you of our LONG night. 1st, I mentioned before that Jax HATES to travel. He pukes all over. Well, we had an appointment to get his rabies & Dhlp/Pv shots last night(6pm). On the way there he pukeduke: projectile & it got all over my new car. It went down the side of the door & seat & got under the seat as well. So when we got home(45min drive) my DH had to remove my seat so i could steam clean the carpet & clean the seat. Did i mentionuke: !lol

Well that took about 1 1/2 hours & the pups stayed outside with us.Then it was dark & we had dinner. Jax was tired but seemed ok. Then we went to go to bed at approx 11 & I noticed i couldnt see his eyes. They were swollen shut & his face was puffy. I tried not to panic while i called the emergency vet. They said to bring him in right away. So here we go another 45 minute puke filled ride(there wasnt much left inside to puke up). 

So we had to wait awhile(they were very busy) and by then his eyes were getting slightly better. All his vitals looked ok & they gave him a shot of Benadryl. They said he did not seem to need a steroid shot. So they sent us home & said to keep an eye on him for a few hours to make sure he was ok.

:whoo: He is definately seems much better today. He is eating, drinking & driving Tripp crazy! All is well. Sorry so long, just had to share.

But i do have to give my opinion. Jax had a Dhlp shot 4 weeks ago when i 1st got him & he was ok. This time 2 shots were given. I think it was just too much for him & next time i will insist on giving then one at a time. I would appreciate your opinions here.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Poor Jax! That sucks that he had to get sick like that... (not to mention the car sickness..ewww)

Beamer is also very sensative to drugs, so our vet never gives him 2 shots at once. Rabies was done seperate 2 weeks after his last round of puppy shots. Sentinal Brown pill makes Beamer pass out..so go figure..


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

*Oooh...*

poor Jax....and poor new car!!!

Glad he's doing better.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Oh how scary Shannon, poor little guy I'm glad he is doing much better today.

My vet never gives Rabies with any other shot and he also doesnt charge a second office visit because he is the one that makes you come back 2-3 weeks later for the Rabies.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Shannon,

What an awful experience for all of you!! 
You are wise to insist that shots be given separately from here on out. The rabies shots are nasty things, in my opinion, even though they are mandated by law. I've read a lot about rabies shots as McKenna had reactions to hers and from what I've learned the rabies shots should be given about 3 weeks after or before any other shot. One reason for that is that if there is a reaction you'll know which shot caused it. My vet tried to tell me that McKenna's reaction was from her puppy shot and I listened to him but later (unfortunately for McKenna) was able to prove it was the rabies. She gets a waiver from any more rabies shots. Sedona, on the other hand, has had no reaction to any shot but I'll still be certain she gets only one shot at a time, assuming she'll ever need any more since I plan to have her titered.


Susan


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## Sunnygirl (Jun 1, 2007)

Shannon, my breeder was pretty adamant about separating all the vaccines. My vet wanted to do the 5 way at the same time as bordetella, and do them 2 weeks apart. Based on the breeder's advice, I kept the shots 3 weeks apart and didn't do either rabies or bordetella at the same time as any other puppy shots. Nico didn't have any reactions, and I don't know that he would have had we done the shots differently, but the breeder felt REALLY strongly about it, so I went with what she said over what the vet was willing to do.


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

I'm so sorry to hear that Shannon, I know you had to be so scared.

I glad he is all better now, and I'm sure the vet would agree with you on spacing the shots further apart. 

As far as the car sickness goes, let me know when you have a solution, I have tried everything with Reece and he pukes before I get out of my neighborhood.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

My vet separated the rabies from the other vaccines by three weeks. I am going to take Kubrick in for his rabies vaccine next Thursday and I hope everything goes well! At least he won't be getting any other vaccinations at the same time, so hopefully he will be fine.

I'm glad that Jax is feeling better! My vet did tell me when Kubrick got the last set of shots that if I saw any swelling of the face or irritation at the injection site to be sure to have some benadryl handy to give him. I guess that's good advice for all dog owners as your vet did the same thing to Jax when you took him in.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

How awful an experience for you Shannon - how frightening too  I am happy to hear that Jax is feeling much better though :cheer2: Big hugs to you both.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Oh my, Shannon, how scary to see Jax react like that and you being quite far from the vet's. So sorry about the puking all over your car ! EEEEeekkk! What a job to get it all off. Thankfully, hubby was around to give you a hand. 

Poor little Jax. I totally agree that it is best for our little guys to have their shots done separately. My vet sugg'd it for Ricky and I did the same for Sammy. I am told to always stay in the waiting room a good 15-20 mins. afterwards to be sure there is no immediate reaction. Luckily for me, though, my vet is less than 10 mins. away.

Give poor ol' Jax a belly rub from me and maybe YOU can take a few minutes to put your feet up and enjoy some R&R. :biggrin1:


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Poor Jax. I would talk to the vet about this. Mine will only give rabies by itself. I usually hang around for 10-15 mins to make sure they are OK. But it seems like that wouldn't have helped you, because it happened quite a while later.

Glad he is doing better.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Shannon,

It may not be that he had two different shots at the same time. In people who are allergic to meds/vaccines etc. They will always have a reaction after the _second exposure_. Since this was the second exposure for the Dhlp for Jax, perhaps he's allergic to it.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

havashadow said:


> Shannon,
> 
> It may not be that he had two different shots at the same time. In people who are allergic to meds/vaccines etc. They will always have a reaction after the _second exposure_. Since this was the second exposure for the Dhlp for Jax, perhaps he's allergic to it.


Very good point Leslie, I have heard this also but forgot all about it. Just another good reason to have them done seperate so you know what set the reaction off.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Poor Jax, and poor new car!! Is he ok today? Wow that must have really been scary! Give him extra kisses from all of us.
Laurie


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Looking at Jax's records from the rescue place, this was his 3rd Dhlp. Does the allergy theory still apply & if he is allergic, what do you do? They still have to have their shots, dont they?
Does anyone give their dogs the shots themselves?


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Thats a good question, I wonder if it does ring true on the third shot. Is Jax's done with all his shots for this year? If so you are going to have to remember all this next year and either decide to forgo the shots and have titers done or at least make sure they are done seperate so you can figure out which one he is having a reaction to. Unfort. it is a law to have Rabies so you will probably have to have that one next year but it will most likley be good for 3 yrs. Just remember to hang out at the vets office for an extra 30 min. to watch for any major reactions and always keep benadryl on hand.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

About the Benadryl...... I'd like to keep some on hand, but how much do you give your dog should there be an allergic reaction of some kind? I would imagine it goes by weight, no? Do you just inject it into the mouth? And then what? How often do you give the dose - just once or .... ? 

Aren't the dogs due for some kind of vaccine around 1 yr. of age? It's early like heck right now, and I still haven't had my coffee so don't really feel like looking it up. Thought I'd ask while I'm here. LOL :biggrin1:


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

Poor little guy....Wow Poor Car As well. I hate to be the one to say it but I love my Car and it has received so many little scratches and dings not to mention the front bumper got kissed by a snow drift with some ice in it....ouch. Cars can be replaced but it's always a dark day when it's Brand New....perhaps a drop sheet would be in order next time.

Derek


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Shannon, you had to be terrified. I was just reading about it. Thank God he's alright. I have to bring Milo in for his last distemper shot and then his rabies and we should be through for awhile. The vet did say to do them separately, but I'll make sure now to space them out by two to three weeks. So much to worry about with these little ones.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Marj, when Kubrick got his shots and the vet said to be ready with the Benadryl he was 6.5lbs and my vet said to give him 1/2 tsp of the liquid Benadryl. If you are using the pills, the rule of thumb is 1 mg/lb. Usually a pill is 25 mg so 1/2 of one is enough for a 12lb dog.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

There is a children's version of Benedryl. I'd use that for them rather than the adult version. Unfortunately, the dosage on the bottle is given by age. Many pharmacists have charts that will tell you how much of a particular medicine (Motrin, Tylenol, Benedryl, Dimetap, etc.) to give, based on weight. If you ask, they will often give you one. They are meant for infants, but I suppose they could be used for Havs, too. Just make sure what you are giving them is safe for dogs.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Oh poor little Jax, what an ordeal!!! I am glad he is doing better and I hope you got a good night's rest after all that excitement!!!


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## ruthann (Jan 26, 2007)

Shannon, I'm so glad all turned out ok. My Vet also gives vacs separately, and at least three weeks apart. I have questions for the experts out there. My Vet told me there was no titer acceptable for rabies and that the law required them every three years, no exceptions. Is this true? For this kind of reaction, I would have given Benedryl right away, would this have been the wrong thing to do? My Vet always gives Annabelle Benadryl with an injection because she is sensitive to many things. The best to you and Jax.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I missed this topic yesterday Shannon. How awful for you and Jax. I'm glad he is doing better now.



> But i do have to give my opinion. Jax had a Dhlp shot 4 weeks ago when i 1st got him & he was ok. This time 2 shots were given. I think it was just too much for him & next time i will insist on giving then one at a time. I would appreciate your opinions here.


 My opinion is to definitely give vaccines separately. That way you will know for sure which one caused the reaction if there is one.

Is Jax back to normal today?


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

LuvMyHavanese said:


> But i do have to give my opinion. Jax had a Dhlp shot 4 weeks ago when i 1st got him & he was ok. This time 2 shots were given. I think it was just too much for him & next time i will insist on giving then one at a time. I would appreciate your opinions here.


Wow Shannon, what a day for you and Jax and poor hubby that had to clean the car. 
If it helps any, one of my dogs used to puke every time we got in the car even if we only went a block. I kept taking him in the car with me and eventually he got over it but it took a year. 
One time I took the poodles to the beach and was so thrilled that we made it there without him throwing up. I was so excited about it that I told him what a great dog he was because he didn't throw up and then he puked all over the car right after I said it.  There went the beach trip for the day and I drove home. As we were pulling in the driveway, I told the other poodle who never pukes in a car that I was really happy she didn't throw up and the minute I said it, she threw up too. What can you do but laugh at that point, well, other than clean for an hour.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

lbkar said:


> Just remember to hang out at the vets office for an extra 30 min. to watch for any major reactions and always keep benadryl on hand.


We did wait at the vets office for 30 minutes. We did not notice any reactions until a couple hours later.

But he is doing great now. Thanks everyone for your concerns. I will definately remember this in the future & NOT let them give 2 doses at the same time again!!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm glad to read Jax is doing better now.Good grief that must of been scary!:hug:


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Shannon,

Glad to hear Jax is feeling better. My doctor said that I could give Sissy
a whole children's benadryl for allergies.

I normally give her the benadryl after her shots. They give her the shots at the same time. My breeder advised me not to give the Lepto shot - she said that some havanese have been know to be allergic to Leptospirosis - which is sometimes given in conjunction with the rabies shot. My vet agreed
and *Sissy does not get this vaccine*. It is to protect against bacteria in standing water, muddy water, etc. which Sissy is not around.

There is a couple of websites that talk about the Lepto shot and the toy group having problems with this shot.

you have to scroll down the page to read about the Lepto

http://www.dublinvet.com/petinfo/vacs/lepto_1.htm

Also,

http://www.renaissancehavanese.com/holisticdietvaccineinfo.htm

this is what they say:

We stand by our belief that the Leptospirosis (Lepto) vaccine should not be administered to any toy breed, Havanese included. It is best to keep your Havanese away from environments where they may be exposed to wild animals urine, particularly standing water and always keep an eye on your pet, never allow them to roam in wooded areas unattended.

Anyone else refuse the Lepto shot?

Marie


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

My girls do not get Lepto. One of them will get a waiver for rabies as well. 

Ruthann, if your dog has a bad reaction to the rabies shot your vet can give you an exemption that will still allow the dog to be licensed and "legal" without the shot. 

Susan


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Glad to hear Jax is doing great, gosh that would have scared me to death.

Marie, my vet also does not give Lepto to any toy breed.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

I never gave lepto to any of my dogs.


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## Tiff (Jun 17, 2007)

Will most vets argue about it if you tell them you don't want the lepto?


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

I don't know about most vets, but mine says she "never" gives Lepto. I may have to argue with her about Corona when it comes due, though. For some reason, she likes to give that.  However, they're *our* dogs, so we have to be advocates for our furbabies.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

My vet was candid about giving Lepto to such a small dog and said it isn't all that necessary, but it depends on the dog. Sammy, for instance, is ALWAYS drinking stagnant water, wet pavement, puddles wherever he can find them! :frusty: He licks everything and eats anything he can get his tiny jaw on. sigh....... I did give Sammy the Lepto, but didn't give it to Ricky.

Next year? I'll see..... I might not give the Lepto because I do know it's quite risky. The only "wild" animals we have here are raccoons, mice and maybe some skunks. 

Thanks, Lina, for the dosage!! 

Glad to hear Jax is all better! :biggrin1:


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

My vet just asked me if we have standing water around our house, if so she would recommend Lepto otherwise no. Marj, i didnt think of water on my deck etc...as being standing water. Tripp is ALWAYS licking the deck outside after it rains. I wonder if that makes a difference. We have a creek near our house but he kept drinking out of that, so i keep them away from it.


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## dschles (Jan 23, 2007)

I think attitudes towards the Lepto vaccine vary be region. Lepto can be spread through standing water that has been contaminated with Lepto through the urine of infected wild animals. We live on a 5-acre property in Wisconsin now that is visited by deer, bunnies, coyote and other wildlife. Our vet says that there have been Lepto cases in the area this year, and he recommends the vaccine. He says that Lepto can be difficult to diagnose and is fatal if not diagnosed early. When we lived in Los Angeles, Lepto vaccines were never given (or even offered).


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## EMarie (Apr 11, 2007)

I think you are all mis-understanding the lepto vaccine. If you give it seperate from your other vaccines ( which is now possible ) you will rarely see reactions. In fact in 3 yrs at the clinic we saw less than a dozen. I have seen one anafliactic (sp) reaction not caused by a annual vaccine at all. lepto is an inportant vaccine...what people don't understand is that you can get it from your dog and by the time they find it in you or your dog the chances of survival is very grave. The systems in a person is flu like and in your dog it is just lethargy until they are really sick. We diagnosed a few dogs with it and only one of them survived. Now I do live in the suberbs of Gerogia and we have more deer and wildlife then most. But you can not tell me that you have not had wildlife in your backyard. My girls also go hikeing and camping with us...they don't stay at home or in a kennel. So you do have to weigh out the odds...but like I said if you seperate it out from your vaccines then you should not have a reaction. IF your dog does have a reaction then don't give it but you need to understand all the odd first. I have been to seminars about it and read everything (both good and bad) about the disease. Now the vaccines actually only vaccinate agains 4 strands of the virus. They have diagnosed lepto from Minn all the way down the east coast and out to California. Most of the people who are coming down with it are veterinary staff but if I can help in the prevention of spreading the disease I will do what I can. I do understand the hesitation to vaccinate against stuff you think your dog won't come in contact with but out of the few dogs we did see with it only one of them lived out in the "country" and had the chance to "come in contact with possible lepto" the others were your basic house dogs, including a mini schnauzer and a toy poodle. Go Figure!!! But you should NEVER give it all at the same time. Always spred them out with about 3-4 weeks in between. It is not nesessarly the vaccines they are reacting to but the amount of vaccines causing a major systemic reactions, it is the same in children, when more than 2 vaccines are given to children many of them get sick as well. While a minor fever is a good thing with about 12 hours of lethargy any more than that is not a good thing. 
Ok I will get off of my soap box now, I am sorry if I offended anyone but I strongly believe that owners are not given the whole story and it is deffitently a sore spot. I guess it is just to many years in the veterinary field.

Erin


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Thanks you, Erin, very good points.


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