# The next great depression? Are you scared?



## tikaboo

We thought Y2K was bad; all the scary talk about depression is even worse. I figure now is the time to find out what our grandparents did in the depression and use some of their wisdom to plan ahead. Are any of you planning ahead, getting ideas and storing up dry goods or other things just in case? I'm thinking I should start planning now before it gets bad. I hope you all don't think I'm crazy! but I would rather be prepared and have nothing happen like Y2K than to do nothing and wish I had. 

Some people are saying things like "The next great depression will be worse than the Great Depression of the 30's. If that is any indication, the value of the dollar and the level of debts are worse than they were in 1929. People had work ethics back then, and the rudimentary skills to survive, like growing a garden, canning food, hunting, sewing, etc."

What are some of you doing? It might be good to share some ideas. 
I would hate to be the next president coming into office right now, I dont care what party you support this is not going to be fixed over night. The problem has been brewing for decades and may be finally coming to a head.


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## ECudmore

I do recall my mom talking about the crash of 29. Times were tough in this country.
I think we should all be geared for any change. I am going to try a weekly budget and
stop all the extras for myself and my dog. It is best to be prepared for lean times in this country for the next several years. 

Elayne and Racquet


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## Missy

We have also tightened the purse strings quite a bit. We're trying to save more. We are going out far less and I only go to Whole Foods for a few special items-- other than that I am going to market basket. And the boys are getting a lot less, I am not trying a million new foods to make them happy or buying new toys...I am sticking to what I know works and you know what? they are eating and not being finicky for a change. I will be having them cut shorter now when I take them to the groomers-- so I get a longer time between professional groomings. 

But yes, I am nervous. I watch my retirement account, that I put money into each week keep going down. I am at least 18 years before I have to think about it...but it is still scary.


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## lfung5

I have not dome anything to prepare. I do invest quite a bit monthly and invest even more when the market is low. I think you are smart. I am pretty frugal as it is and will continue to do so! That's probably the extent of my preparation.


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## Jane

I am concerned too. I am trying to cut back as well and to save more. I try to exercise more and shop less - better for my waistline and my budget! I have two friends whose husbands are out of work/soon to be out of work. These are really hard times. I also keep hearing news of deaths, and serious health problems - not sure if it is just the times or just that these things pop up more as we get older 

Time to go hug a Hav!


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## Renee

While I think there is a lot of unneccessary panic right now, I do believe it's time for people to start living within their means. It seems to be a "I want it NOW" society. And the recent problems in the financial world reflect this mindset. Best advice I would have is to get out of debt and try to save as much as you can. If the sky doesn't fall, like the media is currently predicting, then you'll just be that far ahead.


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## Scooter's Family

I agree with you Renee. I know several people who are in major financial crisis right now that they created by overspending! Using credit cards for things you can't afford or buying houses and cars that are way too expensive leads to nothing but trouble! I know one woman who never knows how she's going to make her mortgage payment but she never misses a manicure and still has a housekeeper!!! I've mentioned it and she just shrugs if off and laughs. Makes me crazy though.


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## mellowbo

Scooter's Family said:


> I agree with you Renee. I know several people who are in major financial crisis right now that they created by overspending! Using credit cards for things you can't afford or buying houses and cars that are way too expensive leads to nothing but trouble! I know one woman who never knows how she's going to make her mortgage payment but she never misses a manicure and still has a housekeeper!!! I've mentioned it and she just shrugs if off and laughs. Makes me crazy though.


I'm sorry but I can't feel sorry for a person like that when they lose it all. She probably thinks someone will "take care" of her, lol. Drives me crazy too Ann.
We have been spending less and saving more too. Our 401's are nosediving and we don't have the years to wait it out. Luckily we don't have debt but just looking at utilities, gas, food etc. is a lot each month.
Sometimes I think we would be better to keep our cash under the mtatress or bury it in a tin can in the yard, lol.

Carole


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## Cheryl

I was very scared on Thursday. Companies with great earnings and little bad mortgage exposure were going down. There was a run on the money market funds. Our government responded in the only way it could. I am feeling somewhat better, but I know we still have some rough areas in front of us.


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## JeanMarie

We'll be okay. 
We were in for a BIG correction...and we got it. Sadly, the mentality of the woman who barely makes her house payment but still has money for botox and lattes is what got us here. She'll have her big wakeup call soon enough.

I just retired and I see my nest egg taking a nose dive and it's pretty unnerving. But, I'm staying optimistic and living within my means and I know I can ride it out.


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## Thumper

Cheryl said:


> I was very scared on Thursday. Companies with great earnings and little bad mortgage exposure were going down. There was a run on the money market funds. Our government responded in the only way it could. I am feeling somewhat better, but I know we still have some rough areas in front of us.


We've just got watch that. They eliminated the short selling only 'temporarily', if they reinstate it with the up-tick rule, it'll probably be okay, but it'll be interesting to see what will happen.
I know most investors are sketchy over the mortgage crisis and election and worried about what will happen under each administration.

I guess the good news is, we have from the election til' inaugaration to get our money to a safe place...if we need to.

Silver and Gold are always good investments, my DH goes to this little pawn shop/silver dealer a few towns over and buys blocks of silver every couple of months. I think that's his way of safe investing. We started this about 2 years ago, we're both economists and have been predicting this for a few years now, we've been real cautious not to live outside our means and not use credit, just basically cutting back on the non-necessities like manicures and lattes! Although, I will buy beans and make my OWN latte .

But will it be like the 'great depression', I have my opinion on who's policy might cause more turmoil, but then again..these politicians don't always do everything they say they are going to do..so you never know!

K


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## JASHavanese

I think we're facing a lot more than we know. About a year and a half ago I started getting pretty concerned and started paying off our bills. We have lived on a very tight budget to do it but wow was it worth it to watch as each bill was paid off. I owe very little now but read up on how to keep your credit rating high. One of the things it said to do was to use your credit cards instead of just letting them sit so that you show an active way of how you pay your bills. I have a credit balance on a couple of my credit cards but those will be ones I use and pay off that month. I still have a balance due on one credit card so I'm really going after that one to get it paid. I also called the cc companies and told them to lower the apr or close the account. They lower it when you do that. The credit card companies are sending checks weekly trying to get you to use them and it finally dawned on us a few months ago to buy a shredder for them. Duh, I was just throwing them out. :brick:
The Mormons have a pretty good setup for bad times. I should look at what they do and get some tips from it.


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## Thumper

I usually rip those checks up but WOW..I get pre-approved credit cards EVERY day, they are really pushing us to spend $, and I think the majority of us are afraid to run up debt right now.

I love my American Express I can pay it off every month and it pulls up my rating, I do use a few cards and pay them off just to keep my score up.

Jan, I haven't shopped much lately at all. In fact, I can't remember the last time I bought new clothes or shoes? Well, just the tshirts from HRI at Nationals!! It will take alot for the consumer to snap out of this self-preservation mode we are in.

Right now, I haven't panicked and sold any stocks..I'm just waiting to make that call...I regret not buying Morgan Stanley last week at $11!!!

K.


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## Scooter's Family

mellowbo said:


> I'm sorry but I can't feel sorry for a person like that when they lose it all. She probably thinks someone will "take care" of her, lol. Drives me crazy too Ann.
> We have been spending less and saving more too. Our 401's are nosediving and we don't have the years to wait it out. Luckily we don't have debt but just looking at utilities, gas, food etc. is a lot each month.
> Sometimes I think we would be better to keep our cash under the mtatress or bury it in a tin can in the yard, lol.
> 
> Carole


I don't feel sorry for her either, I did at first until I found out how she was spending. She's 42 years old and still calls her parents begging for $ and they give it to her! I just read an article about how children and young adults aren't learning to live on what they have and many 20-somethings are looking to their parents to subsidize their income. My dad would have laughed in my face if I had asked for his credit card or for money to go out with! We're doing our children a disservice by not teaching them to manage their money and live within their means. We use every opportunity we have to teach our kids about money, hope it works because they won't be able to run to us whenever they're in a bind!


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## JASHavanese

Thumperlove said:


> I usually rip those checks up but WOW..I get pre-approved credit cards EVERY day, they are really pushing us to spend $, and I think the majority of us are afraid to run up debt right now.
> 
> I love my American Express I can pay it off every month and it pulls up my rating, I do use a few cards and pay them off just to keep my score up.
> 
> Jan, I haven't shopped much lately at all. In fact, I can't remember the last time I bought new clothes or shoes? Well, just the tshirts from HRI at Nationals!! It will take alot for the consumer to snap out of this self-preservation mode we are in.
> 
> Right now, I haven't panicked and sold any stocks..I'm just waiting to make that call...I regret not buying Morgan Stanley last week at $11!!!
> 
> K.


Since people aren't shopping, some stores are having great sales. The ones that are 75% off at Penny's I've been having a blast with. I did buy one pair of shoes......200.00 for a pair of zcoil's. Worth every penny for my back problems and they're the only shoes I wear now. I could have a yard sale with all the shoes laying there doing nothing. I remember the days I used to be in the stores all the time. Now I ask myself several times on the rare days I do go to stores if I need it and by the third time I've talked myself out of buying what I was looking at.....and I can't even remember all the things I talked myself out of so they must not be worth having.
We upped the money taken out for hubby's TSP at work and I've been putting more in the savings accounts but I have no clue which is safe and which isn't.


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## Thumper

Well, you are guaranteed up to $100,000 per acct. I think up to $200,000 on joint accounts under FDIC insured banks..but its still not fair that we have to worry about our savings accounts!

I love JC Penney's! They have the best sales, if you get their credit card (you don't have to use it) they send you TONS of coupons for card-members and you can pay with cash on most of the promotions. I do have a Penney's card with a max of $250! I love that card..it saves me tons of money on school clothes and jeans..forgot about that, I have to cloth these growing kids! I'm okay, since I still fit my jeans! lol

K.


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## mellowbo

I didn't know about the $200,000. for joint accounts.
Funny, but whenever I hear about a Penny's charge account I think back to the '60's (when I was in diapers, lol) I remember my brand new sister in law who's father was RICH. He owned Bohemian Wine. Well, he paid cash for everything and Penny's turned him down for a card because he had no credit history to speak of, lol.
Carole


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## Thumper

I double checked the figure and here's what I found on wiki:

_The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) is a United States government corporation created by the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933. It provides deposit insurance which guarantees the safety of checking and savings deposits in member banks, currently up to $100,000 per depositor per bank. The vast number of bank failures in the Great Depression spurred the United States Congress to create an institution to guarantee deposits held by commercial banks, inspired by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and its Depositors Insurance Fund (DIF).
The FDIC insures accounts at different banks separately. For example, a person with accounts at two separate banks (not merely branches of the same bank) can keep $100,000 in each account and be insured for the total of $200,000. Also, accounts in different ownerships (such as beneficial ownership, trusts, and joint accounts) are considered separately for the $100,000 insurance limit. The Federal Deposit Insurance Reform Act of 2005 raised the amount of insurance for an Individual Retirement Account to $250,000._

My grandfather is VERY frugal and he's not a poor man, he has a bit saved up and made some great money on investments in the stock market, he also owns a ton of land, but he won't pay for soda or tea when water is free! I think much of that generation was effected by the depression.

The rate on the JCP card is kind of high, I think..unless you pay it off every month, but the weekly coupons are worth it! I barely ever use the card.

However, my teenage daughter applied for JCpenney card, (my suggestion to help her build credit) and they DENIED her!

K.


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## Thumper

Here is a book some of you might be interested in:

Amazon.com: Crash Proof: How to Profit From the Coming Economic Collapse (Lynn Sonberg Books): Peter D. Schiff, John Downes: Books

Its not written so difficult that it puts you to sleep and makes you scratch your head, but goes over some interesting theories and predictions. not that I believe EVERYthing I read, but its an interesting read, nonetheless.


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## SMARTY

This is a market correction that has been needed for a very long time. The mortgage companies have been giving bad loans to people who could not afford them, 100 to 103%, interest only, etc. is crazy. People getting loans with credit ratings in the 5 & 600’s, it was not rocket science to know if you don’t pay your bills you will loose your house. These were bad loans but the people could only see that they wanted that house and would worry about paying later. 

Those of us in the business new this was a wreck waiting to happen. We have been spoiled for a very long time on availability of anything you want and not a lot of accountability. We drive large gas hogs, I do too, do not recycle as a nation, eat whatever we want no matter what it does to the body and then have the nerve to want the government to bail us out of any of our problems.

This new 500 Trillion dollar bailout is going to cripple the next administration so no new programs or changes can go into effect. But what do you do?


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## Thumper

> The mortgage companies have been giving bad loans to people who could not afford them, 100 to 103%, interest only, etc. is crazy. People getting loans with credit ratings in the 5 & 600's, it was not rocket science to know if you don't pay your bills you will loose your house.


But keep in mind our "Community Reinvestment Act"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

All the while, there has been some lawsuits and pressure from the ACLU that some of these lending companies were discriminating against minorities and lower income families, not allowing them the priviledge to 'own' a home.

I think this may have started as an effort to help minorities and/or lower income families own a home, but then the middle class and above decided to take advantage and upgrade to homes out of their means, so it truly became a debacle.


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## mckennasedona

I'm afraid to check the balance in my 401K but since I'm not THAT close to retirement I'll ride it out. Thankfully we do live within our means and always have. When we bought our home 9 years ago we picked one we could easily afford with the debt we had at the time and we insisted on a 30 yr fixed mortgage. It's not our dream home and it's 31 miles from my office but we bought at a good price, at the right time. Over the years we've paid off everything except the house so that and the regular household monthly bills are all we have. We intentionally keep a low ceiling on our credit card and try not to use it all that often. It's so nice right now not to have multiple car payments or multiple credit cards. I'd be really scared if I had a bunch of debt hanging over my head.
We'll hold off on buying any new cars or any other big purchases for awhile and continue to save.


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## mellowbo

SMARTY said:


> This is a market correction that has been needed for a very long time. The mortgage companies have been giving bad loans to people who could not afford them, 100 to 103%, interest only, etc. is crazy. People getting loans with credit ratings in the 5 & 600's, it was not rocket science to know if you don't pay your bills you will loose your house. These were bad loans but the people could only see that they wanted that house and would worry about paying later.
> 
> Those of us in the business new this was a wreck waiting to happen. We have been spoiled for a very long time on availability of anything you want and not a lot of accountability. We drive large gas hogs, I do too, do not recycle as a nation, eat whatever we want no matter what it does to the body and then have the nerve to want the government to bail us out of any of our problems.
> 
> This new 500 Trillion dollar bailout is going to cripple the next administration so no new programs or changes can go into effect. But what do you do?


Yup Sandi, I agree with everything you said. I actually saw it coming in 2000 when people were cashing in on their overvalued stocks and taking that money and buying houses at any price. That, of course drove up the housing market to overvalued homes. Then people couldn't afford the home prices so the financial institutions decided they, in many cases, didn't need to even verify income. Many foolishly thought prices would keep going up and they would have more equity later and re-finance. or pull their over inflated equity out and buy whatever they wanted. 
The dot com heydays of the 90's created 22 million jobs and stock options. They lost their jobs in the 2000's. Stocks crashed in 2000 and 2001. Buying on money they didn't have, and never would have. Really, we have been in a financial mess for about 17 years and greed over took common sense. Now we have to bail it all out. I just get so irked at all the people who drove it all up and took their money and ran. Enron, etc. In my opinion it is wrong that we, the taxpayers, are going to all pay! But, we will.
I could go on and on but I won't bore you. It is scary right now.
Carole


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## SMARTY

Thumperlove said:


> But keep in mind our "Community Reinvestment Act"
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act
> 
> All the while, there has been some lawsuits and pressure from the ACLU that some of these lending companies were discriminating against minorities and lower income families, not allowing them the priviledge to 'own' a home.
> 
> I think this may have started as an effort to help lower income families own a home, but then the middle class and above decided to take advantage and upgrade to homes out of their means, so it truly became a debacle.


In most of the cases I witnessed it was minority giving minority loans. If minority customers didn't get loans they cried discrimination, now that many people in their communities are loosing their home they cry discrimination. They sign documents at the closing that says what the 2 loan payments are going to be; When you have customer after customer buying new homes, getting all new furniture and new cars, and then having them blame everyone else for the fact they can not pay their house note. It makes you understand that homeownership is not a right for all; it is an earned privilege.


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## mellowbo

That's right. Home ownership is a privilege not a right. There is no entitlement. 
Carole


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## Thumper

I agree with you both!

We aren't just bailing out the banks, we are bailing out the consumers that signed the dotted line.


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## siggie

Thumperlove said:


> Well, you are guaranteed up to $100,000 per acct. I think up to $200,000 on joint accounts under FDIC insured banks..but its still not fair that we have to worry about our savings accounts!
> 
> I love JC Penney's! They have the best sales, if you get their credit card (you don't have to use it) they send you TONS of coupons for card-members and you can pay with cash on most of the promotions. I do have a Penney's card with a max of $250! I love that card..it saves me tons of money on school clothes and jeans..forgot about that, I have to cloth these growing kids! I'm okay, since I still fit my jeans! lol
> 
> K.


I used to work at a bank. I think I remember this correctly (I hope)... 
It's 100k per person total across all accounts (joint, indiv, savings, mm,etc) except IRAs and trust accounts per bank. You get additional 100k for each beneficiary named though, so put all your kids on your accounts.


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## suzyfrtz

In answer to your question about what our grandparents and in my case, my parents, did during the Great Depression - they had no debt, or very little debt. My paternal grandparents owned a small dairy farm and were very frugal. I well remember Grandma put out leftovers on the table every day until someone ate it; I guess in the end if something remained past its time the dog and cats would get it. Also she canned her fruits and vegetables. I have her day book from before the depression, - she sold eggs and chickens; bartered and borrowed back and forth with others. My grandma even ironed her gift wrapping that was taken off a package so she could use it again. I used to find this pretty funny when I was a teen, but now, I save those gift bags!

My maternal grandmother was a widow and I believe she owned a house with three apartments. She also took in washing for people and did ironing.

My dad and mother were still single at the time. Dad worked as a merchant sailor on the Great Lakes and Mom worked in an office, so they both had an income. I know my Mom lived at home and helped her Mother with household expenses. 

Utility bills were lower. The farmhouse was heated with coal. Clothes were hung on the line to dry. Washday once once a week. They only drove to town (5 miles one way) to shop and go to church, or as othewise needed such as doctor's visits. 

Credit was more difficult to get. If you wanted a car or a new couch, you might get a loan from the bank, or in the case of the couch, you could make payments to the store. And since everyone knew you, the banker and the store owner, you would be sure to make those payments on time; if an illness arose, the banker or the store owner might very well carry you over those rough times. 

People, even those well-to-do, seemed, from what I've heard, to look out for each other. I am told that the owner of the salt mine in our town (Diamond Crystal) had one group of workers come one week, another group, the next week, so everyone had a little income.

Suzy


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## mellowbo

In my heart I don't think we will see those days again, but who knows. I just wonder if people are made of the same stuff they were made of back then. I would like to think people would actually want to work for their money and not just want a handout. It would be interesting, but let's hope we don't have to find out.
Our neighbor was telling us tonight that he and his son went to a soccer game today. On the way they drove through in and out for a hamburger because the food prices are so much at the stadium. They sat by some guy who was complaining because he just lost his job.....but he was drinking a $12.00 beer and eating a coupe if $4.50 hot dogs. Go figure...


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## Cosmosmom

No doubt about it - this is a time of readjustment ..
People are concerned and I notice it . People seem to be driving less and eating out less . Funny you mentioned Whole Foods as it does not seem as busy as it it once was . We used to have very long lines in the check out .. 
I am not really interested in investing as I do not feel anythink is safe right now ..
It is hard to see the young people struggling .. It was so hard for them to buy homes - then they were finally able to find financing and now a lot of them are struggling to keep them and save them ..
Sad !!


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## Thumper

siggie said:


> I used to work at a bank. I think I remember this correctly (I hope)...
> It's 100k per person total across all accounts (joint, indiv, savings, mm,etc) except IRAs and trust accounts per bank. You get additional 100k for each beneficiary named though, so put all your kids on your accounts.


I did look at the FDIC page yesterday after posting that to make sure it was still accurate (I remember hearing the 100.000 a person awhile back) and there is protection if you ad your kids to the account. I have 7 kids, so I guess we'd be covered up to 9! lol, well..maybe, I wonder what the cut off is.

I don't think many people put their kids on their big accounts if they have them, but then again...I don't have that kind of $ in the bank, so I don't know! lol

K.


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## JASHavanese

mellowbo said:


> I didn't know about the $200,000. for joint accounts.
> Funny, but whenever I hear about a Penny's charge account I think back to the '60's (when I was in diapers, lol) I remember my brand new sister in law who's father was RICH. He owned Bohemian Wine. Well, he paid cash for everything and Penny's turned him down for a card because he had no credit history to speak of, lol.
> Carole


That reminded me of years ago when I was walking into Nordstrom's and the girl at the desk at the door asked if I wanted one of their credit cards and get a discount on my purchase if I did. At their prices, a discount sounded good. That woman was snooty as could be and had her nose so far in the air that I almost told her to forget it. Before she even took my information she told me to expect about a 250 credit limit. Oh yeah, what's that going to buy you? Anyhow, I filled out the information and she went off to run the credit check. She came back calling me by name, her attitude totally changed and polite as could be. What a change in attitude! Then she told me I had quite a large credit limit and wanted to know if there was anything she could do for me. I told her yes, she could change her attitude and treat everyone who came through the door with respect.
And on another visit to Nordstrom's, my daughter managed to make me turn every shade of red known to man. They had boots I wanted in 2 colors. My daughter is one of the most frugal people I know and was young at the time. Anyhow, the shoe salesman was just about ready to try the boot on me and my daughter picked up a pair of sandlals and saw a price of around 350 for them. She yelled all the way across the shoe dept for that salesman to get that boot off of my foot, we couldn't afford them. I about passed out! :faint: The shoe guy looked at me and asked if he should continue to try the boot on me. I gritted my teeth and said yes. I told him I'd take both pairs and he asked me if I was sure. By then I wanted to stuff a sock (or a boot) in my daughter's mouth. He finally rang up the boots and then asked me if I wanted them weather proofed.....and then went on to tell me it was a free service. Ugh.......my daughter! I still have those boots too! ound:
She did the same thing to her Dad in a restaurant. The kids got virgin drinks and when the waitress asked if they wanted another, she told her that her Dad couldn't afford it. Then it was his turn to wear a red face and the waitress bought her another virgin drink. Then my daughter got a really good talking to


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## JASHavanese

mellowbo said:


> On the way they drove through in and out for a hamburger because the food prices are so much at the stadium. ...


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I miss In and Our burgers! Why don't they move across the country!! I saw that Vegas has them now and had to have one. Yum!!


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## DanielBMe

The only great depression I'm scared of is the one in my couch that stays there for 10min after I get up...I really need to get back to the gym...

Other than that, seems to me things are still business as usual everywhere...and not in a good sense.


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## Missy

Kara, you seem to really have a handle on economics... I am really bad. so as long as your bank accounts are under 100K in one bank you are ok? what about retirement saving in mutual funds with Fidelity? how does that work?


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## Thumper

Yah..you should be fine if your bank is insured with FDIC and I think most of them are. I really don't think the government will let the banks collapse and thats' why we bailed out the troubled ones. 

I'm not a stock broker so I can't really advise to buy or sell, against the law for me to do so  you need to call your broker where you have the account and ask questions, they'd know more about the specifics of the stocks you own anyways, they may be doing well right now...Not everything is going down, some stocks are going up and usually those funds are diverse and pretty secure.

K.


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## Cheryl

I am curious. Is anyone more afraid today? The dow is down over 20% in the last 7 days. 

Do you have a belief of a candidate that can change the direction of this situation?


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## Beamer

Yeha, the markets are just insane right now. The whole global economy is in trouble right now. I would think the DOW will see 7000 in the next couple weeks. If not, I'm sure it will drift down to that level or lower in the next couple months. Lots of US banks are still going to go under! ughhhh

Ryan


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## Cheryl

Ryan, when this all started, I thought it would bottom out around 9000 and that was horrifying. Now I see no bottom.


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## Missy

Everyone has been saying 7-8K will be the bottom. But it sure doesn't feel that way. My 403b(non profit 401K) is down by half in just the last few weeks. I am not sure what to do...I mean it is all in funds-- they have to come back don't they?


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## Beamer

Missy, It depends what those funds are made up of? I honestly do not think the market will rebound at all until early 2009, but doubt we will see 2007 levels for atleast 3-5 years in the future!

Ryan


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## Cheryl

I think today many mutual funds decided to massively get out--that caused the big turn down. Funds are hoping to jump in later (at a lower price) and give you back some money. The sad thing is (and I have been through a major down turn before) is you will be txed on what is sold.


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## Beamer

Cheryl, Assett management companies were downgraded today.. so yeah.. they all took a big hit.. Redemptions are up HUGE since all this mess started. Also, GM's earnings screwed the market as well this afternoon... down over 30% today! I would say they are almost DONE.. ughhhh

Ryan


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## JASHavanese

mellowbo said:


> I didn't know about the $200,000. for joint accounts.
> Funny, but whenever I hear about a Penny's charge account I think back to the '60's (when I was in diapers, lol) I remember my brand new sister in law who's father was RICH. He owned Bohemian Wine. Well, he paid cash for everything and Penny's turned him down for a card because he had no credit history to speak of, lol.
> Carole


For some reason a Penny's card used to be really hard to get. I don't know if it's still that way. Now it seems people are throwing credit cards at you. I keep hearing how they're getting tighter with credit but it's the opposite. I get checks from all the credit card companies each week and offers for new credit cards a few times a week. Things are just too weird. I should have kept my business Am Ex card. They used to forget to put some charges on it. How kind of them :biggrin1:


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## Scooter's Family

I just saw financial analysts saying part of the problem was that so many people overspent, using 0% interest to buy things they couldn't afford and they called it a financial "hangover".

GM will be the next one asking the govt. for a bailout even though they've already gotten millions/billions to retool the plants.

The analysts did say the difference between the Depression and now is that world leaders are aware, whatever that means, and they're actively trying to work this out. I guess we'll see. It's scary though.


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## Renee

I think the media is adding to the problems in the stock market. I want to REACH through my TV screen and _strangle_ Harry Smith in the mornings. He is by no means a financial expert, and needs to quit "feeding the fear". One of the financial advisors I work for had a great analogy this morning. He said if you owned a house that you planned on living in the rest of your life, and suddenly the housing market went way down, would you sell it and move to an apartment? No. Same logic goes towards this market. Keep doing what you're doing by contributing to your 401k, or whatever. This market will turn around, and then you can reap the rewards!


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## JASHavanese

Scooter's Family said:


> I just saw financial analysts saying part of the problem was that so many people overspent, using 0% interest to buy things they couldn't afford and they called it a financial "hangover".
> 
> GM will be the next one asking the govt. for a bailout even though they've already gotten millions/billions to retool the plants.
> 
> The analysts did say the difference between the Depression and now is that world leaders are aware, whatever that means, and they're actively trying to work this out. I guess we'll see. It's scary though.


Have you heard Whoopi on the View? She thinks that anyone who bought a house from something like 2003 until 2008 should be forgiven half of their home loan. Who put a gun to their heads and told them to buy a house they couldn't afford? Why not reduce their credit card bills in half while at it? :brick::brick::brick:


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## JASHavanese

Renee said:


> I think the media is adding to the problems in the stock market.


I agree with you. The media holds a lot of power and I think they're really abusing it.


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## Renee

JASHavanese said:


> Have you heard Whoopi on the View? She thinks that anyone who bought a house from something like 2003 until 2008 should be forgiven half of their home loan. Who put a gun to their heads and told them to buy a house they couldn't afford? Why not reduce their credit card bills in half while at it? :brick::brick::brick:


I knew there was a reason I didn't watch The View! What's sad, is there are people who think movie stars or the general media know what they're talking about.....


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## Scooter's Family

Which is why I don't watch The View or most news programs. I couldn't care less who any celebrities are voting for, they don't live in the real world. They're probably supporting whoever their publicist told them to support.
The media in this county feeds on fear, it's sad.


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## Thumper

Renee said:


> I think the media is adding to the problems in the stock market. I want to REACH through my TV screen and _strangle_ Harry Smith in the mornings. He is by no means a financial expert, and needs to quit "feeding the fear". One of the financial advisors I work for had a great analogy this morning. He said if you owned a house that you planned on living in the rest of your life, and suddenly the housing market went way down, would you sell it and move to an apartment? No. Same logic goes towards this market. Keep doing what you're doing by contributing to your 401k, or whatever. This market will turn around, and then you can reap the rewards!


I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!

I wanted to reach through my screen and strangle CRAMER for telling everyone on the Today show to "sell, sell, sell". Of course, i don't watch the Today show, but the media picked it up and aired it everywhere. :frusty: I can't believe he did that.

I'm holding on to my stocks, some of them are taking a real beating (GM especially!) But I have a buy order in at $4.50 that's a heck of a bargain for GM and I'm PRAYING it turns around. I think its a great time to invest in some stocks at a great price. I'm being optimistic here. I wish the media will too. If people sell now and take HUGE losses and the market turns around later, they will be kicking themselves in the arse.

K.


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## Scooter's Family

Savings in our country is at an all time low, people want to spend, spend, spend and now it's come back to haunt them!
I have a friend who is expecting her second child and her husband was laid off last month. They were prepared!!! Their house isn't huge but it's one they can afford, their cars aren't brand new but they are paid for, and they don't have any credit card debt. They also saved money just in case of lean times. I've used them as an example for my children to show them you can survive bad times but it's up to you to be ready. I don't feel sorry for the people who have gotten themselves into bad situations by living beyond their means and charging, charging, charging!


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## Thumper

Cheryl said:


> I am curious. Is anyone more afraid today? The dow is down over 20% in the last 7 days.
> 
> Do you have a belief of a candidate that can change the direction of this situation?


I don't know if I'm 'afraid'...But I am disappointed in BOTH candidates right now. Why aren't either one of them talking (campaigning) to the investors? I read a good article from Larry Kudlow on CNBC. Obama hasn't made a great connection with investors with the promises of capital gains and dividends taxing, but McCain..he hasn't connected with us either, imo..why isn't he talking to the investors? We are a big group of voters? Why aren't they talking to us about this?

I would feel much more confident if they both started talking to us, we are like the elephant in the room that keeps getting ignored (investors)

*Will McCain Make the Investor Connection?*Posted By:Larry Kudlow

While the presidential candidates were debating in Nashville on Tuesday night the Asian stock markets were selling off by 10 percent. Earlier in the day the U.S. market plunged by 500 points. These were big-time drops, yet presidential debaters never talk about the stock market. Nashville was no exception.

Roughly $2 trillion in U.S. shareholder capital has been lost in the past 15 months. Stocks are down 20 percent over the last month alone. Those are nasty hits. Stock market people are very unhappy campers right now. And the bad-news financial statements for September are now either in the mail or on the kitchen table. But there were no references to investors either by McCain or Obama on Tuesday night. This is nuts.

The investor class is a huge voting bloc. Shareholders in recent national elections represented nearly two out of every three votes cast. And most surveys put the investor-class population at slightly over 100 million. This includes direct investment through brokerage accounts, although the vast majority of investor-class members own IRAs, 401(k)s, and defined-benefit plans, such as state and city pension funds.

So why aren't the presidential contenders trying to connect to investors? More glaringly, why isn't McCain?

After the debate I checked in with TechnoMetrica's Raghavan Mayur, who puts out the respected IBD/TIPP poll. Mayur consistently ranks among the top pollsters in terms of accuracy, including his work on investor preferences. For September, Mayur's data show McCain with a small 45-41 lead over Obama among investors. That's roughly within the poll's margin of error, and for McCain it isn't enough.

Four years ago this September, George W. Bush had a 10-point lead over John Kerry among investors. In November Bush won investors by a 53-42 margin. By this measure, McCain is now way behind. And I suspect it may be a function of his reluctance to talk directly about investor taxes -- especially on capital gains and dividends.

The Bush tax cuts in this area were very popular among shareholders since they reduced the cost of capital and raised after-tax investment returns. Of course, McCain has pledged to maintain President Bush's investor tax cuts at the current 15 percent rate, while Obama proposes to raise them to at least 20 percent. But McCain seldom talks specifically about cap-gains and dividends, and the polling numbers strongly suggest he's not connecting with investors.

Obama constantly bashes businesses and successful high-end earners, and one would think investors would be totally turned off by this. But Mayer's polls don't confirm it. Why? Perhaps investors sense a lack of tax-cutting passion from Sen. McCain.

For example, during the debate, McCain did mention how he and Obama differ on tax policy. At one point McCain even compared Obama to Hoover. "My friends," he said, "the last president to raise taxes during tough economic times was Herbert Hoover, and he practiced protectionism as well." McCain later said, "I've got some news, Sen. Obama -- the news is bad. So let's not raise anybody's taxes."

But McCain never got specific on capital-gains and dividends, and he failed to educate voters on just how important investment is to healthy job-creating businesses.

Ditto for McCain's proposed corporate tax cut. The senator wants to slash the business tax rate from 35 to 25 percent. It's an excellent plan. But McCain doesn't explain how two-thirds of the benefits of a corporate tax cut go to the workforce through higher wages, with the rest then going to shareholders. He also doesn't point out that ordinary folks actually pay the corporate tax, since firms pass this tax cost along in the form of higher prices. So McCain could, in fact, call a corporate tax cut a consumer tax cut. But he's not doing this.

McCain also needs to put investors on red alert about Obama's middle-class tax cut. The Illinois senator's huge government-spending plans will overwhelm his ability to cut taxes for 95 percent of the people. In fact, McCain needs to remind voters that Bill Clinton made exactly the same promise as a candidate in 1992 before he broke it as president in 1993.

Time's running out. The investor class vote -- which still looks up for grabs -- has simply got to be a McCain priority if he is to win in November. Rag Mayur doesn't have his October polling results in yet, but he believes the race will be much tighter than mainstream pundits believe. Message to Sen. McCain: The investor vote could well tip the balance.


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## Renee

Scooter's Family said:


> Which is why I don't watch The View or most news programs. I couldn't care less who any celebrities are voting for, they don't live in the real world. They're probably supporting whoever their publicist told them to support.
> The media in this county feeds on fear, it's sad.


My thoughts exactly. Now if we could get everyone else to see it that way!


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## JASHavanese

Renee said:


> My thoughts exactly. Now if we could get everyone else to see it that way!


We do feed on fear and when we do that we hurt our own country. If we stop doing our normal things that we can afford think of all the businesses that affects. If they don't have customers people get laid off and we get a vicious cycle that spirals downward. Look at the fear we've lived under for so many years. Orange level one day, yellow another. The media finally got sick of it and stopped but how many didn't fly because of it? We let the media lead the way and you'd think they'd learn. I guess they profit from fear and if we let them, I don't see them stopping.
I'm going shopping. Enough is enough.


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## Thumper

JASHavanese said:


> We let the media lead the way and you'd think they'd learn. I guess they profit from fear and if we let them, I don't see them stopping.
> I'm going shopping. Enough is enough.


Ahh..thanks for the SMILE, Jan  I'm going to continue to be optimistic here, and still invest in America.

K.


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## Cheryl

I seem to have another take on this. Although I do believe that anxiety is part of the problem, I do not blame the media. They are only telling the truth as the experts report it. Would you want them to lie? 

For those who get their news from Whoppi and the View, that is an entirely different issue.

I believe that the anxiety can be attributed to a weak government, I also think that people are concerned that once January rolls around, the government will still not be strong enough. It is not just the president with a low approval rating, it is the congress.


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## JASHavanese

Cheryl said:


> I seem to have another take on this. Although I do believe that anxiety is part of the problem, I do not blame the media. They are only telling the truth as the experts report it. Would you want them to lie? .


I can understand how you feel, but if the anxiety level or threat level or whatever they call it is so important that it was headlines every day why don't we hear that threat every day like we used to? Planes weren't hijacked, security is still so so at best, and the sky didn't fall.


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## luv3havs

My husband and I are at retirement age right now, (although he still works part-time).
That makes us fearful, since we've done all the right things, paid off our mortgage and cars etc. and now we watch as our retirement accounts fall each day. We don't have years left to wait for the market to rebound.

I don't have too much sympathy for those who bought houses they couldn't afford and then as they increased in value, re-financed and took money out of their houses to buy more things and take trips... Whoopie is nuts! Why should we bail them out?
My son is one of those people and I don't think he should be bailed out. He bought a huge house, just because he could, due to the mortgage situation 2-3 years ago, of no down payment and easy financing. Now he's one of those in foreclosure.

Kara, I truly applaud your optimism. Wish I had more of it myself. It's hard not to be fearful at this age, but investor fear is causing some of the problems with the fall in the market. I'm going to stop paying attention to the news for my sanity.


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## Thumper

luv2havs said:


> My husband and I are at retirement age right now, (although he still works part-time).
> That makes us fearful, since we've done all the right things, paid off our mortgage and cars etc. and now we watch as our retirement accounts fall each day. We don't have years left to wait for the market to rebound.
> 
> I don't have too much sympathy for those who bought houses they couldn't afford and then as they increased in value, re-financed and took money out of their houses to buy more things and take trips... Whoopie is nuts! Why should we bail them out?
> My son is one of those people and I don't think he should be bailed out. He bought a huge house, just because he could, due to the mortgage situation 2-3 years ago, of no down payment and easy financing. Now he's one of those in foreclosure.
> 
> Kara, I truly applaud your optimism. Wish I had more of it myself. It's hard not to be fearful at this age, but investor fear is causing some of the problems with the fall in the market. I'm going to stop paying attention to the news for my sanity.


Whoopie is nuts.

I just got back from a lunch-Birthday party for our friend that turned 60 today, most of the people there were close to retirement age, that was the talk of the lunch, the fear and uncertainty. My husband and I are both economist, and although we disagree on some things, I think everyone is mad and/or fearful right now, just to varying degrees. I have shifted money from stocks to gold/silver, out of caution..and I am being more cautious about where I'm investing (looking for solid assets), so I guess that would be 'fear'...cautious just being a euphenism! lol

I think it might be rough til' Christmas. I know the election is not helping people, it only adds uncertainty and neither candidate is talking to the investment community right now, so that isn't helping!

Foreign investors did NOT like hearing that America is just going to print more money, and we sold them bad paper. But why should they trust us? We are in debt already from 9/11, Katrina, etc. and now we are printing up another bucketload of money for the 'bailout', and then our candidates are both talking about printing money for more stuff (the taxes won't pay for everything) so our dollar is likely to be worthless in their eyes.

Someone needs to figure this mess out.

I hope your investments do turn around, soon. The stock brokers make money when we buy and when we sell, so they are probably the only ones doing good off of this 'fear'.

K.

PS. Keep your TV off, the dow (and Nasdaq and S&P) are moving back UP! Maybe that's the secret  not to watch. :kiss:


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## Scooter's Family

JASHavanese said:


> We do feed on fear and when we do that we hurt our own country. If we stop doing our normal things that we can afford think of all the businesses that affects. If they don't have customers people get laid off and we get a vicious cycle that spirals downward. Look at the fear we've lived under for so many years. Orange level one day, yellow another. The media finally got sick of it and stopped but how many didn't fly because of it? We let the media lead the way and you'd think they'd learn. I guess they profit from fear and if we let them, I don't see them stopping.
> I'm going shopping. Enough is enough.


I did my part today! I bought some things for Scooter and a few for me!:biggrin1: Mommy needed a new sweater!


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## Renee

luv2havs said:


> My husband and I are at retirement age right now, (although he still works part-time).
> That makes us fearful, since we've done all the right things, paid off our mortgage and cars etc. and now we watch as our retirement accounts fall each day. We don't have years left to wait for the market to rebound.


Hang in there! I can only imagine your fear right now, being at retirement age and the stock market falling right now. I've got at LEAST 25 years til I retire, so I do not have the worries you currently face. My advice would be to take as little as you can out of the stock market so your accounts have a chance to recover over the next few years. Sounds like you've done the right things, and I do believe that WILL pay off for you. Find creative ways to make money, live frugally, and just wait it out. It will recover. And don't let the media freak you out!


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## JASHavanese

Cheryl said:


> I seem to have another take on this. Although I do believe that anxiety is part of the problem, I do not blame the media. They are only telling the truth as the experts report it. Would you want them to lie? .


How did I miss this part? The media is a pro at slanting things to whatever they want you to believe and they are POWERFUL. I could give you at least 4 examples but I'd be here all day typing. One thing I know about up close and personal like is my in laws house. A guy who looked like my husband robbed a credit union. The teller put a device in the bag so the police could follow him. They chased him, he wound up jumping out of his car and over a fence into a residential area. He went yard to yard until he found a place to hide which happened to be my inlaws shed. The house was surrounded, a shot was heard, and the police moved in. Found the guy dead..killed himself and they took a picture of him to show to neighbors. The neighbors called one son at work and he went right to the house and when they tried to call my husband at work, they were told he took the day off. Ah ha...hubby guilty of robbery, and then brother 'detained' for his murder because he was angry his brother robbed a credit union. We were laying on the couch together...he stayed home because I had surgery the day before when the news broke in to show the swat team going into his parents house. This was hours after the fact and nobody bothered to call us since hubby was 'dead'. The news was all ready to run that story and they were on air when we showed up. Oh boy did we ruin their day. Anyhow then they had to change angles and get an interview with the police. Since the police kept reporters behind a brick wall, there was only the police to go by. The police said they didn't shoot any tear gas into the house and said it was just a guy dead in the shed. Instead, the police forgot to mention that my bil gave them the key to the house since they wanted to search it (for WHAT reason?) and they also had a k9 with them. Instead of using the key and k9, they shot through every friggin large window with tear gas (it leaves pretty orange and purple spots on the walls) into the house. They knew they messed up so then they searched the house....tearing apart cushions, going through every drawer in the house, and turned the place inside out. I guess they figured they were bound to find something illegal in there to warrant a search and destruction like that. The guy shot himself out in the backyard in the shed..not the house and the house was locked up tight with no sign of entry. The insurance wouldn't cover it....damage was done because of a crime, and the police wouldn't cover it because they acted in the line of duty <ahem>. Everything had to be taken out of the house including silverware, clothing, carpeting....you name it because they have to decontaminate it to get the smell out. When we found out the police lied to the press and nobody was covering all that damage, we went to the reporter and told her the truth. She used her power to go to the police and tell them she was running the story on the front page of the Sunday paper (I still have the paper) and were putting this elderly couple in gas masks and plastering their face on the cover and in the story they would say whether or not the police were going to cover the damage they did. Basically she blackmailed them into covering it and it worked. Had they not been an older couple and been given the whole story, it would have been oh well.
That same bil and his wife have taken dancing lessons for years under the same teacher. Dateline wanted to do a story on the teacher and he asked my bil and sil if they'd be in it to show the dancing. They said sure and it's a good thing my bil has a sense of humor. When the story ran, it showed the life of a gay dancing instructor and one of the clips they showed was him dancing with my bil. What he was actually doing was showing my bil the step but instead Dateline made it look like he and my bil were an item. Imagine the laughing we all did as we watched that show. He got ribbed at work for months. 
The news or media can do whatever it wants and it's up to us to decide what's real and what isn't.


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## JASHavanese

Scooter's Family said:


> I did my part today! I bought some things for Scooter and a few for me!:biggrin1: Mommy needed a new sweater!


:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## mellowbo

JASHavanese said:


> Have you heard Whoopi on the View? She thinks that anyone who bought a house from something like 2003 until 2008 should be forgiven half of their home loan. Who put a gun to their heads and told them to buy a house they couldn't afford? Why not reduce their credit card bills in half while at it? :brick::brick::brick:


Statements like that are why I stopped watching the view. How rediculous. Actually I think they should go back to 1991, that's when we bought our house. How about you guys, shouldn't we all get a share of this? haha
Carole


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## Scooter's Family

That's why the govt. can't do something like that. What about renters? What about the people who only bought what they could afford??? It's as if the foolish will be rewarded and the responsible penalized.


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## mellowbo

Nan, DH and I are also at retirement age. We have done the same as you and are free of bills, mortgage, etc. But I had tivo'ed Dr Phil yesterday and Cramer was on it and was scary! The "experts" were telling everyone not to spend anything! They said it would take 5-10 years to recover and DH and I don't have 5-10 years. How the heck do you pull out 401K, etc money anyway? Taxes would kill you. We need to wait this out.
They also said pensioners should be careful because we could be notified that our pensions would be cut by 20%. I could hardly sleep. lol
Like you, DH works part time and still makes good money. We were hoping to completely retire next year but I don't think that would be smart right now with all this uncertainty. 
Maybe it's just my nature though, but I think we will all be ok. Somehow. We need to keep on course and not panic. I know I contribute to the economy, lol.
Carole


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## Esperanita

Cheryl said:


> I seem to have another take on this. Although I do believe that anxiety is part of the problem, I do not blame the media. They are only telling the truth as the experts report it. Would you want them to lie?
> 
> For those who get their news from Whoppi and the View, that is an entirely different issue.


I agree with you 100% regarding the media. Information is power - good or bad. Just think what would happen/how you would feel if you went to your bank to get a loan having great credit and they told you no. Would you know it is part of an international credit crisis or would you make up some other reason to panic about. I am no scholar on the great depression by any means, but it sounds like a lot of problems were exasperated by a lack of knowledge (and stupid moves by the government such as tightening the money supply when they should have loosened it).


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## luv3havs

Carole,
I'm surely glad that I didn't see Cramer on the Dr. Phil show. 
The day he said (think it was on the Today show earlier this week) that people should take out all the money they would need for the next 5 years, that is when panic set in. 
My kids were calling and telling us to follow that advice. We did take some $ out of our 401K account and rolled it into cds, but we were reacting to the panic.
If I had heard him make the statement about our pensions being cut, I'd have really flipped out. I have been fearing that anyway.

Today I'm feeling less panic. I do remember my parents talking about the 1929 market crash and the depression and that's when I get scared.
My DH says we should spend our money, because we need to help the economy lol.
If I were younger and still working and earning, I think I'd feel less powerless.
But I'll try not to worry.


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## Esperanita

I've always heard you should take your money out of stocks or at least rebalance your portfolio as your get closer to retirement. I actually thought I heard that you should take out money from stocks about 5 years before you absolutely needed it, but the time frame could have been shorter.


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## mellowbo

But I don't think I really understand 401K's, IRA's etc. Can you roll that into CD's and not pay taxes until you take it out of the cd's???
Our retirement investment accounts are not in stocks, they are conservative mutual funds. However, everything got hit real bad so they are now worth about 40% less. We are going to leave it alone at this point, it's already down a lot. But we don't need it now. It's the people who have been living on their retirement funds and don't have a pension that I am concerned for. If they were pulling out say, $3000. a month, now they would have to cut that amount down or they would be depleting their account too fast. 
Nan, don't worry about the pensions, I'm not going to. We are so lucky we don't have mortgages and we will be fine! xxoox


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## LuvCicero

DH and I grew up an hour away from Atlanta...in the country. We were both raised by parents that lived a simple...but good life. We were both raised by fathers that said, "if you can't pay for it - don't buy it." And they meant SAVE till you can PAY FOR IT. I will/have never forgot what my Daddy told me when I got married. "If you borrow $100.00 from someone...they are going to charge you more for letting you have it...so it's better to save till you have the $100 - don't give away your money!" They both built their own homes and paid for it as it went up. We neither knew of our parents to 'make payments'. They had farm aminals, gardens, etc. Our mothers cooked, canned, sewed, etc. Our fathers both owned their own business. DH and I have lived mostly the way we were raised...except for the farm animals..lol DH has always been self-employed. He told me when we got married that he was going to retire when he was 50...so we needed to plan and save. We have always enjoyed eating at home instead of out. I sewed and made mine and my girls clothes till they were in high school (by hand for many years till we saved for a sewing machine). I canned and froze foods. I'm not a shopper, so I usually know what I'm going to get when I leave the house. The first couple of years we saved every dollar we could...and lived on love..lol We raised three children who had everything they needed...and half of what they wanted. Ronnie is a jack of all trades so no repair people to pay!! During the years we bought land when we had the money saved and later would sell it for a good profit. My DH worked hard and his construction business did well....and he will still ask me to darn his socks at times...lol..I don't have to any longer! We are blessed in many ways. We now own 4 homes and several pieces of land and enjoy living a good simple life...and 24 pints of scuppernong jelly just got canned in our kitchen!!

I sure hope we don't lose it all in the next couple of years!!!


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## luv3havs

Actually, it wasn't a 401K, but an IRA account that we have. It consists of different investments, mostly Mutual Funds ,very balanced and moderately conservative.We just switched a portion of the mutual funds into cds within the IRA account, therefore not taxable until we take the money out.


Carole, you are doing the right thing, according to all the conventional wisdom. If you don't need the money for 5 or so years, you are not supposed to do what we did.
I just got nervous and made the move, thinking that we would be keeping some money"safe". DH went along with it, to humor me, I think.

I do feel for the people who have to take money out of their retirement funds each month to live.

Interesting times we are living in, with the election and the economy, and the war.
I'll keep your good thoughts about the pensions.
xox


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## Thumper

mellowbo said:


> Nan, DH and I are also at retirement age. We have done the same as you and are free of bills, mortgage, etc. But I had tivo'ed Dr Phil yesterday and Cramer was on it and was scary! The "experts" were telling everyone not to spend anything! They said it would take 5-10 years to recover and DH and I don't have 5-10 years. How the heck do you pull out 401K, etc money anyway? Taxes would kill you. We need to wait this out.
> They also said pensioners should be careful because we could be notified that our pensions would be cut by 20%. I could hardly sleep. lol
> Like you, DH works part time and still makes good money. We were hoping to completely retire next year but I don't think that would be smart right now with all this uncertainty.
> Maybe it's just my nature though, but I think we will all be ok. Somehow. We need to keep on course and not panic. I know I contribute to the economy, lol.
> Carole


Well, Carole depending on who is elected, I'm really curious what will happen to the market, especially now. The capital gains tax rate is 15%, but if it hiked to 28% or more, that's a big tax hit (where is the gun to the head smiley?). But we have til' Inaugaration, at least to take out what we need to and avoid the bigGER tax hit. I don't want to pay 30% tax on my retirement/investment. Crazy. Why do I work my arse off and save?! lol Better yet, who are we working for! 

(I hate capital gains tax if you can't tell. I think it should be more like 5-8%! It is OUR risk, OUR gamble, OUR savings and retirement, OUR smart thinking and investing in the growth of American companies, isn't that patriotic enough? )

K.


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## mellowbo

Kara, how does that work? We are not planning to take any money out but if we did would there be capital gains on the money invested in the last 5 years if they are worth less than what we paid?? That's probably not a fair question since you are a very good economist, not a tax advisor, lol. xxoox


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## mellowbo

LuvCicero said:


> DH and I grew up an hour away from Atlanta...in the country. We were both raised by parents that lived a simple...but good life. We were both raised by fathers that said, "if you can't pay for it - don't buy it." And they meant SAVE till you can PAY FOR IT. I will/have never forgot what my Daddy told me when I got married. "If you borrow $100.00 from someone...they are going to charge you more for letting you have it...so it's better to save till you have the $100 - don't give away your money!" They both built their own homes and paid for it as it went up. We neither knew of our parents to 'make payments'. They had farm aminals, gardens, etc. Our mothers cooked, canned, sewed, etc. Our fathers both owned their own business. DH and I have lived mostly the way we were raised...except for the farm animals..lol DH has always been self-employed. He told me when we got married that he was going to retire when he was 50...so we needed to plan and save. We have always enjoyed eating at home instead of out. I sewed and made mine and my girls clothes till they were in high school (by hand for many years till we saved for a sewing machine). I canned and froze foods. I'm not a shopper, so I usually know what I'm going to get when I leave the house. The first couple of years we saved every dollar we could...and lived on love..lol We raised three children who had everything they needed...and half of what they wanted. Ronnie is a jack of all trades so no repair people to pay!! During the years we bought land when we had the money saved and later would sell it for a good profit. My DH worked hard and his construction business did well....and he will still ask me to darn his socks at times...lol..I don't have to any longer! We are blessed in many ways. We now own 4 homes and several pieces of land and enjoy living a good simple life...and 24 pints of scuppernong jelly just got canned in our kitchen!!
> 
> I sure hope we don't lose it all in the next couple of years!!!


I JUST LOVE THAT STORY!! That is so wholesome and the good old American way.


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## mckennasedona

Dale, I love your story. It reminds me of my own parental advice and the stories of my grandparents who did live through the depression and the lean times. Those people did what they had to do to survive and they made it work because they had a good work ethic, perseverance, and they didn't expect everything or anything RIGHT NOW. 

PS, what is scuppernong jelly?


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## irnfit

Well, I don't know what else can happen. Since we lost our busines, I am throwing everything we have into paying off 2 mortgages. So we are now living from paycheck to paycheck. My DH has a small pension I hope will be OK. I don't have a pension and no investments other than the 2 houses. If we have to, we can take a reverse mortgage on one house, because that is the investment property anyway. 

We only have one car (DH doesn't drive), we don't take huge vacations, I'm not a jewelry person and we don't buy "toys". We are just finding it harder and harder to make $$ stretch. 

But it could always be worse.


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## mellowbo

Oh Michele, I'm sorry things aren't looking too good right now. I will pray it will get better!!


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## Scooter's Family

My parents taught us the same thing, if you can't pay cash then you don't need it! Very valuable lesson I'm trying hard to pass on to my children! 
***But if Scooter needs it then that's different!ound:


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## LuvCicero

Susan, Scuppernongs are a type of grape. Some people plant vines but often you can find them growning wild. Ever heard of muscadiness? They are the dark purple ones...scuppernongs are greenish, taupey color. Sooo good to just eat. Soooo good to make wine.  Mostly you can find the jelly in specialty stores. For me the fruit is free...and the jelly is delicious!!

Glad some of you enjoyed my story...life...lol I have always had everything I needed...and things I wanted because I don't ask for much. Family, home, kids, food, good times together...what more could I want !! My entertainment tonight...I'm going to my grandson's (13 today) football game....and grandparents can get in FREE. As Cicero would say...What a treat !!!


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## mellowbo

Geeze, speaking of 401's, etc, you're not going to believe this one! We just got our 401 statement today and I usually never pay any attention to them. (my bad) So today I take a look and what do I see? For this entire year they have only been taking 1/3 of the amount they are suppose to take out of DH's check for the 401! I don't know if i should be elated or really ticked off. Arghh. DH has to call payroll Monday and see what's going on....Ya know we really need to pay attention more! lol
Carole


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## Scooter's Family

Have fun tonight Dale! Seems like the times we enjoy ourselves the most are the ones we don't have to pay for. I hope your grandson's team wins the game!

Carole-I'm the same way and it makes my DH crazy. I tend to bury my head in the sand when something makes me nervous and our economy is definitely making me nervous!


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## luv3havs

Carole,
That could be a good thing. Less $ for you to lose in the market.


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## mellowbo

luv2havs said:


> Carole,
> That could be a good thing. Less $ for you to lose in the market.


That's what I was thinking Nan but it was also money we paid taxes on because it wasn't deducted. It may be kinda a wash, lol.
Carole


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## luv3havs

Oh yes, I forgot about the tax sheltering aspect.
Hope it was a wash or maybe a bit of a plus for you.


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## JASHavanese

Did anyone watch the Today show this morning? I'm so thrilled with them!! They threw a happy day and refused to report FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR. They said that all this talk about fear is breeding more fear and I agree with them.
The way to feed our country is to live our lives normally and within our limits. The way to starve our country is to buy into fear and stop living our normal lives. When we stop spending we bet against our own country.
I'm not saying to go charge up your credit cards, but don't let fear run your life. 
One of the up sides is that it's a great time to buy a house. Prices are finally affordable and not skyrocketing out of control.
Look at how many people freaked out over gas prices. Many bought new cars that get great mileage and now have a car payment and the gas prices here are down to 2.70 so those people have a car payment and where did they save money by buying into fear and not waiting something out?


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## Missy

well said Jan. I wish I had seen the today show today. that would have put a smile on my face.


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## JASHavanese

Missy said:


> well said Jan. I wish I had seen the today show today. that would have put a smile on my face.


I hope more of the media starts this and the Today show deserves an award for keeping a cool head. The news media knows how much they control public opinion and I think most are being irresponsible. Yes, be careful but don't freak out. Bet on our country not against it.


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## Esperanita

JASHavanese said:


> Look at how many people freaked out over gas prices. Many bought new cars that get great mileage and now have a car payment and the gas prices here are down to 2.70 so those people have a car payment and where did they save money by buying into fear and not waiting something out?


Gas prices were high due to supply and demand. The supply is limited. The cheap oil which produces cheap gas is running low or in the hands of dictators - Saudi Arabia, for example, won't even report how much reserves they have where Russia has been playing "Do what I say or we'll cut off your supply". The oil sands in Canada are expensive to extract. It is worth while to extract when gas prices are high.

Gas prices only dropped because global demand is down due to the global recession or whatever you want to call it. When the economy picks up, you can bet gas prices will rise with it unless we find some type of alternative fuel. Demand is down because people don't really have a lot of excess money to make unnecessary trips. It is all related. If you sold your paid for car or SUV and got a brand new car with payments, it was probably not just due to high gas prices. Those people were probably looking for a new car anyway - it is the only thing that makes sense when you think of total cost.


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## Scooter's Family

I kept my SUV because I didn't want a car payment and it's only a year and a half old. I have one because we have 3 kids that are involved in sports, church groups, etc. and it seems that it's always full of kids! (Mine and others!) When the oldest goes to college in 2010 I'll consider down-sizing. I am much more careful about unnecessary trips and try to hit every place in one area when I can. 

I wish I had seen the Today show do that. The media has the power to calm or panic and they're often careless with that power.


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## ama0722

I did get my stock and retirement statements in the mail. I am in it for the long term though. I guess it is in part cause I don't know what I am doing and I am always scared changing things around too much will hurt me in the long run. But boy did my stocks go down!!! That is pretty scary to me as they have never been this low since I have owned them! But I only get quarterly statements so hopefully they turn around soon.

Carole- that happened to DH last year, he wasn't checking and they weren't taking his retirement out. I think he just suddenly thought Universities pay more! <BG>

We still don't have mid or premium gas in my area but gas prices have gone slightly down. My gf in Ohio said they are down almost a $1 a gallon. I wonder if it is really supply/demand or how much it has to do with our vote in the next 30 days.

I have my honda CRV and lucky for me it takes regular gas but I do think I am going to try and get something a bit cheaper on gas next time around. To be honest though, my husband little convertible sucks down more gas. But since moving we barely drive. We are eating out a lot less- but I think that has a bit more to do with options and me being home to cook.

I think I see the economy out here a lot more than I did in Los Angeles. But then again I was surrounded by people out there that their daily habits weren't effected the same way that they are here. When I first moved, I had to go and purchase a lot of household items. The cashier at walmart was explaining to me how expensive garbage bags are and how if I just use my plastic walmart bags and throw them out each day, I could save $10+ a month. While I was in a rush that day, she left an impression on me how people really are struggling in the area.


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## Esperanita

Speaking of sport cars. my G37 is horrible on gas. I get about 18-19 miles per gallon on premium. I don't complain to others because I can't honestly say I got it to conserve gas. I love a powerful engine so unless my situation changes drastically, I probably will always have performance car of some type.

Amanda, you might have said it before, but why did you move from CA to SC? What other economic differences have you seen? I thought that comment was fascinating. It speaks to a smaller town or perhaps Southern, "look-out" for everyone mentality and also bad economic times. I could not imagine that happening in CT, Boston or even at my neighborhood Atlanta Kroger...


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## ama0722

My husband took a position at Clemson University so we up and moved again. I will be honest, in LA, I worked with people who were very wealthy living in beverly hills who I know have no clue of the price of garbage bags, etc. But there are a lot of people in LA who don't live like that so don't get me wrong there! I just happened to rub elbows with the other side for awhile 

I also hear people complain about gas here all the time. I just recently joined a local volunteer club and I was told some members aren't going and aren't participating because of the price of gas. They gave out gas gift cards to members who did a lot of driving in the last activity. Now most of these members are retirement age or older and they can't go to the meeting cause of the price of gas. Unfortunately, there isn't cheap public transportation like there is in LA (even though their system sucks compared to many big cities!)

It is definitely different in small town. I still think gas is cheap out here after living in LA for a year. People do talk your ear off around here whether you want to hear it or not. It is a warm atmosphere that is completely different. Like I have said before, some days I love it, others I don't! Depends on if I am in a rush or not for the most part. I did think it was sweet the woman was trying to tell me how to save some money. DH thought she was being too nosey going thru our stuff! <BG> but hey if I was scanning groceries- I would be nosey to what people buy too!

They also are doing the local farmer's market less around here because people aren't coming. People are spending less on groceries and gas.

I guess you just hear it a lot more cause there isn't a huge divide in wealth out here, and they are friendly enough to tell you!


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## Thumper

mellowbo said:


> Kara, how does that work? We are not planning to take any money out but if we did would there be capital gains on the money invested in the last 5 years if they are worth less than what we paid?? That's probably not a fair question since you are a very good economist, not a tax advisor, lol. xxoox


Yes, you'd be taxed when you cash out if you have a profit (even a small one) Net capital gain is the amount by which your net long-term capital gain is more than your net short-term capital loss..right now, If your capital losses exceed your capital gains, the excess is subtracted from other income on your tax return, up to an annual limit of $3,000 (I had to pull that one off the IRS site), depending on the going rate which is 15% right now, McCain is leaving that tax at the current rate, Obama wants 28% tax rate, now..if he does it, IDK. The market is pretty volatile right now and I think it'd be a dumb move, but I'm an investor not a politician!

Also, my husband deals with the capital gains/losses on our returns. I don't have the patience as much as we trade! In fact, he's at the office right now working on it!

You have to watch those statements, we trade often and probably get about 20 or more trade statements in the mail every week, on top of our statements from the company, but we've seen our brokerage firm overcharge us on trades before, or other 'errors' ..so we do look at them now and make sure they match what we traded and the commission they should get.

Did you know real estate gains are also taxable under capital gains?


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## JASHavanese

Scooter's Family said:


> I kept my SUV because I didn't want a car payment and it's only a year and a half old. I have one because we have 3 kids that are involved in sports, church groups, etc. and it seems that it's always full of kids! (Mine and others!) When the oldest goes to college in 2010 I'll consider down-sizing. I am much more careful about unnecessary trips and try to hit every place in one area when I can.
> 
> I wish I had seen the Today show do that. The media has the power to calm or panic and they're often careless with that power.


I have my SUV too and plan to keep it. It's got 50k miles on it and it's a 98! I used to buy cars every 2 years until I met hubby. He fell in love with the Camero I had and when I went to trade it in, he begged me not to so I broke my every 2 year rule. When we moved here we sold it instead of having it shipped. Then I got a 2 year old car and found out that I was the smallest on the road here in South Texas. I gave hubby that car and got the SUV which was 2 years old and like it so much that I've kept it. I came close to trading it in when Saturn came out with their convertible but found it had no trunk with the top down and that's the only car I've seen that interested me enough to have a car payment.


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## Scooter's Family

DH would like to have a new car, his is a 2002, but we just don't want payments and the increase in insurance since we have a 17 year old son driving too. We'll cave in at some point but we have remodeling that needs to be done in the house. Have to decide which takes priority!


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## irnfit

I have a compact SUV - 2001 Hyundai Santa Fe. It has 76,000 mi on it and I love it. If I got another car, it would probably be another Santa Fe. The only car I have liked better was my Volvo 240.


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## mellowbo

Thumperlove said:


> Yes, you'd be taxed when you cash out if you have a profit (even a small one) Net capital gain is the amount by which your net long-term capital gain is more than your net short-term capital loss..right now, If your capital losses exceed your capital gains, the excess is subtracted from other income on your tax return, up to an annual limit of $3,000 (I had to pull that one off the IRS site), depending on the going rate which is 15% right now, McCain is leaving that tax at the current rate, Obama wants 28% tax rate, now..if he does it, IDK. The market is pretty volatile right now and I think it'd be a dumb move, but I'm an investor not a politician!
> 
> Also, my husband deals with the capital gains/losses on our returns. I don't have the patience as much as we trade! In fact, he's at the office right now working on it!
> 
> You have to watch those statements, we trade often and probably get about 20 or more trade statements in the mail every week, on top of our statements from the company, but we've seen our brokerage firm overcharge us on trades before, or other 'errors' ..so we do look at them now and make sure they match what we traded and the commission they should get.
> 
> Did you know real estate gains are also taxable under capital gains?


Yeah, I knew it about real estate. That's just one of the little areas where we might be paying more taxes depending on the elections.
Thanks Kara for all the info.
Carole


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## mellowbo

Carole- that happened to DH last year, he wasn't checking and they weren't taking his retirement out. I think he just suddenly thought Universities pay more! <BG>

Yeah Amanda. Unfortunately for us the change in the deduction happened at the same time as the college announced that he would be getting paid 8 times a year instead of monthly. I just never did the math. arghh


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## JASHavanese

irnfit said:


> I have a compact SUV - 2001 Hyundai Santa Fe. It has 76,000 mi on it and I love it. If I got another car, it would probably be another Santa Fe. The only car I have liked better was my Volvo 240.


I loved my Camero. It had the biggest engine in it that was possible and during those days I was a lead foot.
We were on an open stretch of land when I first bought it and hubby (who wasn't hubby yet) had his seat fully reclined and was laying down. The car next to me was some hot shot turbo charged whatever and gestured that he wanted to race, so I nodded. Hubby had no clue as the radio was pretty loud and and his eyes were closed. When the light turned green, the race was on. 
After the race, hubby crawled out of the back seat he got thrown into (can't help it, that still makes me giggle) and looked over at me and said, "Judging by the smile on your face, you won". See why I love the guy so much :biggrin1:
He knew ahead of time I used to race Vettes at OCIR so he couldn't complain  Well, I guess he could have since he wound up in the back seat but he should have had his seat belt on


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## mellowbo

I'm saving for a Lexus Hybrid SUV. I want RED, lol. Needless to say it's going to take a while.
Carole


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## Renee

Esperanita said:


> Gas prices were high due to supply and demand. The supply is limited. The cheap oil which produces cheap gas is running low or in the hands of dictators - Saudi Arabia, for example, won't even report how much reserves they have where Russia has been playing "Do what I say or we'll cut off your supply". The oil sands in Canada are expensive to extract. It is worth while to extract when gas prices are high.
> 
> Gas prices only dropped because global demand is down due to the global recession or whatever you want to call it. When the economy picks up, you can bet gas prices will rise with it unless we find some type of alternative fuel. Demand is down because people don't really have a lot of excess money to make unnecessary trips. It is all related. If you sold your paid for car or SUV and got a brand new car with payments, it was probably not just due to high gas prices. Those people were probably looking for a new car anyway - it is the only thing that makes sense when you think of total cost.


My opinion of high gas prices, after listening to several economists, is that gas prices got so high because of SPECULATION, not necessarily current supply and demand. Gas is $2.82 here, last I checked. A nice break for the budget. Funny thing is, I remember after 9-11, gas prices went up to $1.75 per gallon. We thought that was HORRIBLE and that we were getting gouged....what I wouldn't do for $1.75 gas now!! It's all perspective....


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## Thumper

Renee said:


> My opinion of high gas prices, after listening to several economists, is that gas prices got so high because of SPECULATION, not necessarily current supply and demand. Gas is $2.82 here, last I checked. A nice break for the budget. Funny thing is, I remember after 9-11, gas prices went up to $1.75 per gallon. We thought that was HORRIBLE and that we were getting gouged....what I wouldn't do for $1.75 gas now!! It's all perspective....


So much of the stock market is 'speculation' you can see that when a company puts out it earning 'estimates' for the next quarter, and if they are lower than past years, the stock holders panic. But its really interesting to me how that works, look at GM, they took a beating last week, but they have like 80 billion dollars worth of hard, tangible assets (cars, plants and such), so if they liquidated their assets, the actual share price would be around $18 a share (number of outstanding shares divided into tangible assets and net worth of property), even though they were trading as low as $4 ish.

I think the Wall street/ investment issue will be addressed tomorrow night at the debate, I hear they both are working on new plans to stabilize it, looking forward to that.

K.


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## Esperanita

hvapuppy2 said:


> Liberal economist wins Nobel Prize...
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081013...l_economics;_ylt=AvrFTRoBBze9WY5RClXG.C6s0NUE


Way to go Krugman! I had him for my freshman econ class at MIT. He was a great professor and made micro interesting  Now sometimes even I find some of his policies out there, but he has written some great work looking at the Asian tigers and does a nice job tying things together.


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## Esperanita

Part of supply and demand is speculation. It is almost impossible to accurately predict supply or demand before it is realized. You can speculate where it will be. I agree that there has been a lot of discussion about traders running up oil prices, but the fact is China, India and other "3rd world" places are becoming wealthier and affording the luxuries we have. When Tata motors in India is planning a $2500 car, that is a lot more people needing gas. Likewise, I forget the numbers but I found it amazing how many new drivers/cars hit the road in China daily. The other problem is there is a not enough refining capacity in the US. I was reading through the GA politician tidbits preparing to vote early and one was like we need new refineries on the East coast. I agree, but the problem is no one wants a new refinery n their backyard.


----------



## The Fussy Puppy Gang

JASHavanese said:


> I loved my Camero. It had the biggest engine in it that was possible and during those days I was a lead foot....


What type of Camero did you have? My first car was a 1972 Camero RS and oh, how I loved that car.

Now we drive a 1998 Mitsubishi Montero Sport (with 250K miles) and no plans to change any time soon. It's a good car. Like a Timex, it takes a licking and keeps on ticking. But I do miss that Camero. I can't imagine having to keep that gas tank full nowadays, though.

I heard on CNBC that October is the second month in a row that China will not be buying foreign oil. That's part of the drop off in demand. It would be nice to have gas prices return to a below-$3.00 price and stay there.


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## JASHavanese

The Fussy Puppy Gang said:


> What type of Camero did you have? My first car was a 1972 Camero RS and oh, how I loved that car. .


Good question! LOL I can't remember. All I remember about what kind it was is that it had the largest engine you could put in one. Does that tell you which one it was? :doh:


----------



## JASHavanese

tikaboo said:


> Some people are saying things like "The next great depression will be worse than the Great Depression of the 30's. If that is any indication, the value of the dollar and the level of debts are worse than they were in 1929. People had work ethics back then, and the rudimentary skills to survive, like growing a garden, canning food, hunting, sewing, etc.".


Have people calmed down yet? Gas prices are half of what they were, the prices of homes aren't artificially inflated anymore and people can afford them now, and the stock market is doing fine.


----------



## Thumper

Stock market was doing better til' Bush spoke this morning! LOL He has a negative effect, everytime he goes on TV and talks, stocks go down.

Did you see the new stock market/economic plans unveiled today and yesterday? I love some of the ideas, leary of others.

But finally, they are talking to investors about this, about time!

K.


----------



## Esperanita

JASHavanese said:


> Have people calmed down yet? Gas prices are half of what they were, the prices of homes aren't artificially inflated anymore and people can afford them now, and the stock market is doing fine.


I wished I live where you do. Here, in Atlanta, although prices have fallen, I am still paying $3.40 a gallon for premium. Also, the stock market really isn't doing fine. I've heard estimates of up to 5 yrs to get maybe close to where it was last summer. My portfolio lost almost half its value. I'm a long term investor so I am not panicking, but I think we have quite some way to go before the market is back to where it was. In addition, it seems like the credit market is still pretty frozen. The unfreezing of the credit market is what's going to make a difference based on the analysts I've heard...


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## mellowbo

Here in San Diego gas prices are 3.69 for supreme, about 3.39 for regular.

Esperanita, I've been laying around last night and today with the flu and I watched a show called Real Housewives of Atlanta on Bravo. Have you ever seen it? It's a hoot!
Carole


----------



## Esperanita

mellowbo said:


> Here in San Diego gas prices are 3.69 for supreme, about 3.39 for regular.
> 
> Esperanita, I've been laying around last night and today with the flu and I watched a show called Real Housewives of Atlanta on Bravo. Have you ever seen it? It's a hoot!
> Carole


I'm sorry to hear that you are sick. I hate colds anytime, but especially in the fall.

I have not seen the show, but I've heard about it. I don't know, maybe I'm jealous, but the excessive waste of money I saw in the previews made me think "What are they thinking?!?" Hopefully, the good times continue for them... I must admit I saw the Deion Sanders show and he was riding around in his house on what looked to be a go cart. That was too much for me. He blamed bad knees. I guess he's involved in enough activities that he's probably going to be okay 

Hope


----------



## mellowbo

Esperanita said:


> I'm sorry to hear that you are sick. I hate colds anytime, but especially in the fall.
> 
> I have not seen the show, but I've heard about it. I don't know, maybe I'm jealous, but the excessive waste of money I saw in the previews made me think "What are they thinking?!?" Hopefully, the good times continue for them... I must admit I saw the Deion Sanders show and he was riding around in his house on what looked to be a go cart. That was too much for me. He blamed bad knees. I guess he's involved in enough activities that he's probably going to be okay
> 
> Hope[/QUOT
> 
> It's hard to realize that people actually live like that. I was watching it with my mouth hanging open, lol (Probably so I could breathe) haha


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang

JASHavanese said:


> Good question! LOL I can't remember. All I remember about what kind it was is that it had the largest engine you could put in one. Does that tell you which one it was? :doh:


You'd have to tell me the year model, but the 396 cu in engine was the largest engine for the Camaro and I think it was in the SS and the Z28. Not sure if the RS came with that engine size. Mine was a 350 cu in. The cars today just aren't the same.

FYI - Supposedly in 2009/2010 Chevy is coming out with a fifth generation Camaro that is supposed to look retro - back to the first generation Camaro of the 60's. We'll see if that still happens with all that's going on in our economy now.


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## JASHavanese

The Fussy Puppy Gang said:


> FYI - Supposedly in 2009/2010 Chevy is coming out with a fifth generation Camaro that is supposed to look retro - back to the first generation Camaro of the 60's. We'll see if that still happens with all that's going on in our economy now.


Mustang tried that and it didn't go over very well...or rather it didn't go over well here. 
And a side note, our gas is down to 2.50 a gallon


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## JASHavanese

JASHavanese said:


> And a side note, our gas is down to 2.50 a gallon


Oops, I just looked it up. I haven't been out since last Friday night and have been home with a stomach bug and missed that it went even lower.

Lowest Gas Prices in Corpus Christi

Price Station Address City Time 
*2.32* Valero
4010 E Causeway Blvd & Surfboard Ave
Corpus Christi - North
Oct 14,9:30 PM 4010 E Causeway Blvd & Surfboard Ave Corpus Christi - North Oct 14, 9:30 PM 
*2.32* Valero
4502 E Causeway Blvd & Beach Ave
Corpus Christi - North
Oct 14,9:30 PM 4502 E Causeway Blvd & Beach Ave Corpus Christi - North Oct 14, 9:30 PM 
*2.32* Citgo
1701 US-181 near Billy G Webb Dr
Portland
Oct 14,9:30 PM 1701 US-181 near Billy G Webb Dr Portland Oct 14, 9:30 PM 
*2.32* Murphy USA
2045 US-181 & Broadway Blvd
Portland
Oct 14,9:30 PM 2045 US-181 & Broadway Blvd Portland Oct 14, 9:30 PM 
*2.32* H-E-B
1600 Wildcat Dr & Lang Rd
Portland
Oct 14,8:00 PM 1600 Wildcat Dr & Lang Rd Portland Oct 14, 8:00 PM 
*2.35* Exxon
1201 Wildcat Dr & Daniel Moore St
Portland
Oct 14,8:00 AM 1201 Wildcat Dr & Daniel Moore St Portland Oct 14, 8:00 AM 
*2.35* Valero
1650 Wildcat Dr & Lang Rd
Portland
Oct 13,11:30 AM 1650 Wildcat Dr & Lang Rd Portland Oct 13, 11:30 AM 
*2.38* Stripes
102 Sunset Rd & Black Welder 
Gregory
Oct 12,11:39 PM 102 Sunset Rd & Black Welder Gregory Oct 12, 11:39 PM 
*2.39* Diamond Shamrock
302 US-181 & FM-631
Taft
Oct 12,11:48 PM 302 US-181 & FM-631 Taft Oct 12, 11:48 PM 
*2.39* Stripes
204 Us highway181 & mcintire 
Taft
Oct 12,11:47 PM 204 Us highway181 & mcintire Taft Oct 12, 11:47 PM


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## mellowbo

Arghhh, maybe I should drive over there to fill up! hahahaha


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## JASHavanese

mellowbo said:


> Arghhh, maybe I should drive over there to fill up! hahahaha


Go shopping on your way and boost the retail stores  Sales are down so imagine the great prices for Christmas presents.


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## Scooter's Family

mellowbo said:


> Esperanita said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that you are sick. I hate colds anytime, but especially in the fall.
> 
> I have not seen the show, but I've heard about it. I don't know, maybe I'm jealous, but the excessive waste of money I saw in the previews made me think "What are they thinking?!?" Hopefully, the good times continue for them... I must admit I saw the Deion Sanders show and he was riding around in his house on what looked to be a go cart. That was too much for me. He blamed bad knees. I guess he's involved in enough activities that he's probably going to be okay
> 
> Hope[/QUOT
> 
> It's hard to realize that people actually live like that. I was watching it with my mouth hanging open, lol (Probably so I could breathe) haha
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen the show but I have a friend who works at the country club where two families belong. She said she never sees the moms but sees the Nanny's there with the kids all the time. These shows make me sick!
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