# Making Kodi's food using Honest Kitchen



## krandall

In another thread, I said I'd post a new thread showing how I make Kodi's food using HK. I make it once every 3 weeks or so, and (other than freezing time) it takes me less than an hour. I'd spend more time going to the pet store for another bag of kibble! It's really easy and he LOVES it!!!

I use HK Preference, which is the one without meat. From everything I've read, the meat used in the complete forms of HK is good quality, but I don't see why I should pay the premium for freeze dried meat, when it is easy to supply my own. I have organic chicken breasts ground specially for me at Whole Foods most of the time. If I can't get over there, (we don't have a whole foods close) I will buy antibiotic and hormone free chicken or turkey (both are easy to get these days, right in the regular grocery stores) and use that. But you can use any meat source you want. Just choose something without a high fat content.

Here is the method I use. I cook the meat through with a little water mixed in to keep it from sticking. You can also use raw meat, (which is what HK is actually designed for) I just don't because of my own personal immune system problems. Then I mix in the rehydrated HK. (don't cook that, or you will remove nutrients. 

I spray the muffin tin with a bit of organic cooking spray to make the "muffins" slide out more easily, and pop them in the freezer for a couple of hours, then store them in Zip Lok bags. One muffin is one meal. I defrost them in the microwave for 1 minute, which defrosts them, but doesn't cook them any further. (which would remove nutrients)

Easy Peasy!  You've NEVER seen a dog eat faster than they will on this stuff!


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## Sheri

Karen, I have tried HK but it left a lot of green debris in his beard that was hard to get out. Do you have to issue? It seems too simple of a solution to be able to resolve it by having the food in a muffin shape instead of mixing it each meal in his bowl...? But, I wonder...


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## Sheri

Maybe it is the fact that the meat is more substantial in the way you are doing it than if it were freeze dried...


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## FancyNancy

This sounds great! Karen - would you mind saying how much meat and how much Preference you use? Do you add any supplements? Thanks!


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## Terri

Interesting. I tried the trial paks for Reilly and he loved it. Adding the meat looks easy enough and so nutritious. I too would like to know how much meat and how much preference you use to make those portions shown. Also, about what size is the "muffin",compared to say, 14/-1/2 cup food? And also any supplements needed to add? thanks.


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## krandall

Sheri said:


> Karen, I have tried HK but it left a lot of green debris in his beard that was hard to get out. Do you have to issue? It seems too simple of a solution to be able to resolve it by having the food in a muffin shape instead of mixing it each meal in his bowl...? But, I wonder...


It isn't muffin shaped when he eats it&#8230; that's only when it's frozen. It's just a convenient way to store it in meal-sized servings. But I haven't had any problem with it getting stuck in his beard, either. Do other wet foods get caught in his hair?

I wouldn't want to mix it just before feeding, because I want all the water to be absorbed. I don't like the idea of dried food possibly swelling in his gut and causing problems.


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## krandall

Sheri said:


> Maybe it is the fact that the meat is more substantial in the way you are doing it than if it were freeze dried...


Could be. I haven't tried the HK that includes freeze dried meat, but I did try the Sojo's version. The meat pieces in the Sojo's seemed to take an alarmingly long time to fully re-hydrate. (there were some hard pieces still after I left it soaking over night)


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad

krandall said:


> In another thread, I said I'd post a new thread showing how I make Kodi's food using HK. I make it once every 3 weeks or so, and (other than freezing time) it takes me less than an hour. I'd spend more time going to the pet store for another bag of kibble! It's really easy and he LOVES it!!!
> 
> I use HK Preference, which is the one without meat. From everything I've read, the meat used in the complete forms of HK is good quality, but I don't see why I should pay the premium for freeze dried meat, when it is easy to supply my own. I have organic chicken breasts ground specially for me at Whole Foods most of the time. If I can't get over there, (we don't have a whole foods close) I will buy antibiotic and hormone free chicken or turkey (both are easy to get these days, right in the regular grocery stores) and use that. But you can use any meat source you want. Just choose something without a high fat content.
> 
> Here is the method I use. I cook the meat through with a little water mixed in to keep it from sticking. You can also use raw meat, (which is what HK is actually designed for) I just don't because of my own personal immune system problems. Then I mix in the rehydrated HK. (don't cook that, or you will remove nutrients.
> 
> I spray the muffin tin with a bit of organic cooking spray to make the "muffins" slide out more easily, and pop them in the freezer for a couple of hours, then store them in Zip Lok bags. One muffin is one meal. I defrost them in the microwave for 1 minute, which defrosts them, but doesn't cook them any further. (which would remove nutrients)
> 
> Easy Peasy!  You've NEVER seen a dog eat faster than they will on this stuff!


How much does this cost compared?


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## krandall

FancyNancy said:


> This sounds great! Karen - would you mind saying how much meat and how much Preference you use? Do you add any supplements? Thanks!


I make 2 lbs worth of meat, and the amount of HK they say to mix with that at a time. (the directions are on the box)

He does get supplements, but they aren't "nutritional" supplements. HK plus lean meat are a nutritionally balanced diet. He gets a fish oil capsule (Nordic Naturals) and Glycoflex II to protect his joints because he works hard, Plaque-Off for his teeth, and probiotics.

He gets half an egg 2-3 times a week, just because he adores them, and they are good food too!  And MOST of his training treats are Nature's Variety freeze dried raw bites, so they are good nutrition too. (we do use higher value, less nutritious "junk food" like cheese, sausage and turkey meatballs for reward at trials! )


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## krandall

Terri said:


> Interesting. I tried the trial paks for Reilly and he loved it. Adding the meat looks easy enough and so nutritious. I too would like to know how much meat and how much preference you use to make those portions shown. Also, about what size is the "muffin",compared to say, 14/-1/2 cup food? And also any supplements needed to add? thanks.


OK, I just pulled out the box. I measured the ground chicken the first time, and found that 1 lb is about 2 1/2 cups. To that, (as directed on the package) I add 2 1/2 c HK Preference and 3 3/4c water. 2 lbs of ground chicken plus the appropriate amount of HK makes 24, half cup "muffins". (which fit in 2 gallon freezer bags)

Remember that this is "wet food", so per cup, contains more water and less "food" than kibble does. Kodi ate a scant 1/4c of kibble per meal, and eats a about a 1/2c "muffin". If I found this wasn't enough to maintain weight, I'd go to the 6 per tray "giant" muffin tins and just not fill them completely. Then you'd probably have to measure the food into the tins before freezing, (I can just heap as much in as will fit in each muffin cup, and know it's about right for him. )

You WILL have to play around with the amounts until you know exactly how much they need to maintain a good weight. Kodi goes for chiro every 6 weeks (again, just maintenance because of all the strenuous work he does) so I can weigh him every time he's there, and make minor adjustments as needed. I find that he needs a little more food in the summer, when he's spending a lot of time running outdoors on hike with us. Otherwise, he can be a little robby by the end of the summer! 

And as I said in another post, there is no need for any supplements for straight nutritional purposes&#8230; HK plus lean meat is a balanced diet. And all the ingredients are USA sourced and human food grade.

It's not a "cheap" way to feed a dog&#8230; I am quite sure that cooking from scratch would be less expensive. If he needed a specially designed diet for health reasons, like Tammy's Tillie, I'd probably bite the bullet and do that. But this is MUCH easier, fits our life style well, and he does great on it. On Dr. Becker's sliding scale of food quality, I think this fits somewhere between commercial freeze dried raw and home cooked&#8230; Pretty darned hit up the scale. 

Oh, Also, I get HK (and my cat food) from Pet Food Direct&#8230; the cheapest source I've found. If I can figure out exactly how much I need to order how often, and put it on automatic delivery, it will be even cheaper. And if you spend over a certain amount each time, (I think it's $75?) shipping is free.


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## Terri

Thank you for the prompt reply. You are right, easy peasey, love it! I Will be getting started on preparing HK meals tomorrow after a trip to the store for the meat...Appreciate
the help.


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## Lillysmom

I love THK foods and so do my dogs. They are an easy way to feed really good food to your dogs. My dogs have never looked as good as they do now since I started feeding them THK. I switch around with the different flavors and occasionally will do a week at a time of the Preference with cooked meat. It makes me feel like I am doing something a little special for them.


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## sandypaws

Tyler is also on HK, however I use the grain free variety for him which is all inclusive so it's not necessary to add anything. I mix up 1/4c of HK with a tad less than the 1/3c of water recommended, just prior to his meals. It does get stuck in his beard and seems to get washed off in his water which I change quite often after meals because of this. He, too, can't get enough of HK and continuously licks his bowl when finished. He also was a very picky eater for years and would skip meals periodically. Not now! He can barely wait for it to be ready and still, at 16 1/2, so ins and dances when I get ready to put down his bowl. It's a joy to see.


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## krandall

sandypaws said:


> Tyler is also on HK, however I use the grain free variety for him which is all inclusive so it's not necessary to add anything. I mix up 1/4c of HK with a tad less than the 1/3c of water recommended, just prior to his meals. It does get stuck in his beard and seems to get washed off in his water which I change quite often after meals because of this. He, too, can't get enough of HK and continuously licks his bowl when finished. He also was a very picky eater for years and would skip meals periodically. Not now! He can barely wait for it to be ready and still, at 16 1/2, so ins and dances when I get ready to put down his bowl. It's a joy to see.


Maybe the difference with Kodi not getting it stuck in his beard is that I make it ahead, so there are less discrete pieces?

Preference (the one with out meat) is grain free too, BTW.


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad

How much does a month's supply of food, including the added meat, cost?


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## lfung5

What a great idea Karen!! Looks like too much work for me though


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## krandall

Gibbs Mom and Dad said:


> How much does a month's supply of food, including the added meat, cost?


Ha! I don't know&#8230; I don't make food decisions based on cost, whether it's for my family or my animals.  I'm not even sure how I'd figure it out. You're the accountant! 

7 lb box (33c dry) is $53.99
Boneless, skinless chicken breast at Whole Foods 6.99 per lb.
or
Wild Harvest ground turkey breast 4.99 per lb

To make 24 single serving muffins, I use 5c of HK (dry) and 2 lbs of chicken or turkey.

What would that work out to?


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## Sheri

If you figure that out, John, I'd like to know, too. :ranger:


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad

krandall said:


> Ha! I don't know&#8230; I don't make food decisions based on cost, whether it's for my family or my animals.  I'm not even sure how I'd figure it out. You're the accountant!
> 
> 7 lb box (33c dry) is $53.99
> Boneless, skinless chicken breast at Whole Foods 6.99 per lb.
> or
> Wild Harvest ground turkey breast 4.99 per lb
> 
> To make 24 single serving muffins, I use 5c of HK (dry) and 2 lbs of chicken or turkey.
> 
> What would that work out to?


I just want to make sure I understand:

5 cups of HK + 2 lbs of chicken = 24 muffins.

There is 33 cups in a 7 lb box of HK for $54.00.

If my understanding is a correct, then

One Box 7 lb box plus 13.2 lbs of meat = 6.6 batches or 158 muffins.

The average price between chicken and turkey is $6.00 per pound.

Therefore, the price for 158 muffins is $133 calculated as follows:

13.2 lbs chicken/turkey x $6.00 = $79 + $54 for the box of HK = $133.

Therefore, if one muffin equals one serving served twice a day, then a 7 lb box of HK plus 13.2 pounds of meat is enough food for 79 days.

Therefore, the cost to feed is:

$1.68 per day
$51 per month
$613 per year

Karen,

I'm just looking for a sanity check on how long a box of HK lasts. If my understanding is correct, you should be purchasing a 7 lb box of HK every 2 1/2 months????

Does this make sense to you based upon your observations?


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad

krandall said:


> Ha! I don't know&#8230; I don't make food decisions based on cost, whether it's for my family or my animals.


Nor do I, which is why I am currently feeding Gibbs Primal Raw which he seems to enjoy and do well on. However, I know how well you treat Kodi and know you'd only feed him a high quality diet, so I wanted to entertain a comparison.

I'm confident enough that Primal Raw is a quality enough food source that making a change for the sake of change isn't necessary, but I'm also open enough to new ideas that I wanted to perform a complete analysis.

Do you know how the quality of HK compares to the Frozen Raw brands, whether they be Primal, Stella's or Nature's Instinct?


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## krandall

Gibbs Mom and Dad said:


> I just want to make sure I understand:
> 
> 5 cups of HK + 2 lbs of chicken = 24 muffins.
> 
> There is 33 cups in a 7 lb box of HK for $54.00.
> 
> If my understanding is a correct, then
> 
> One Box 7 lb box plus 13.2 lbs of meat = 6.6 batches or 158 muffins.
> 
> The average price between chicken and turkey is $6.00 per pound.
> 
> Therefore, the price for 158 muffins is $133 calculated as follows:
> 
> 13.2 lbs chicken/turkey x $6.00 = $79 + $54 for the box of HK = $133.
> 
> Therefore, if one muffin equals one serving served twice a day, then a 7 lb box of HK plus 13.2 pounds of meat is enough food for 79 days.
> 
> Therefore, the cost to feed is:
> 
> $1.68 per day
> $51 per month
> $613 per year
> 
> Karen,
> 
> I'm just looking for a sanity check on how long a box of HK lasts. If my understanding is correct, you should be purchasing a 7 lb box of HK every 2 1/2 months????
> 
> Does this make sense to you based upon your observations?


That sounds about right, John. And, of course, you could CERTAINLY buy lower cost meats and cut the cost down that way. "regular" chicken breast is routinely available on sale for $1.99 per lb around here. You'd have to stock up when you saw it, and then de-bone it yourself, but that would be a considerable saving. You can also get nice lean pork loin roast around here on sale pretty frequently for $1.99 per lb.


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## krandall

Gibbs Mom and Dad said:


> Nor do I, which is why I am currently feeding Gibbs Primal Raw which he seems to enjoy and do well on. However, I know how well you treat Kodi and know you'd only feed him a high quality diet, so I wanted to entertain a comparison.
> 
> I'm confident enough that Primal Raw is a quality enough food source that making a change for the sake of change isn't necessary, but I'm also open enough to new ideas that I wanted to perform a complete analysis.
> 
> Do you know how the quality of HK compares to the Frozen Raw brands, whether they be Primal, Stella's or Nature's Instinct?


It is top quality ingredients, human grade, prepared in a human food kitchen. So held to higher standards than the pet food trade. All ingredients are U.S.A. sourced, though not necessarily organic.

According to Dr. Becker, freeze dried raw ranks just below commercial frozen raw. I cook the meat, but you don't have to. So, if you used fresh raw meat and HK, I think you would be right up there with (or perhaps, depending on how the source and handle ingredients) slightly above a frozen raw diet. My guess is they are pretty comparable. For me it's better, because I get the same quality, and can still cook the meat for my personal safety. (my health problem&#8230; nor a general concern) If you are currently feeding a good frozen raw and he's doing well on it, I wouldn't change.

I think HK is an easy solution for people who want to take a HUGE step up from kibble or even canned.


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## Sheri

Wow, thanks, John. That is slick to know.


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## Carli

This thread is great thanks Karen!

For a four month old puppy, how many times a day would you feed HK?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Carli

Argh i cant find a website that ships HK to Europe!! Does any one know any?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## HannahBearsMom

Maccabee also eats HK. He is still on a low protein diet, so we stick with HK's Keen whose protein is organic turkey. I mix enough for 3 days. After it rehydrates, I use a blunt knife to mark 6 portions right in the rubbermaid container in which I mixed it. At mealtime I use a tablespoon to lift out one of the portions and plop it into Macc's bowl. 

I'm still trying to determine the optimal amount to feed him. He topped out at 11.2 pounds while I was transitioning him from kibble to HK (mixing the two). He's been off kibble for 6 weeks or two months and now weighs 10.2 pounds. I think 10 pounds is a better weight for him than 11 (he looked a little chubby). I'm going to continue doing what I've been doing and weigh him again in a couple weeks to see if I need to give additional food or not.

No question whether Maccabee likes his HK food. He jumps and dances as soon as I take "his container" out of the fridge. I tried timing him yesterday, but he ate so quickly it wasn't worth it. His meal was gone in less than 30 seconds!


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## Lillysmom

Carli, did you try the Honest Kitchen website itself? You can sign up and get a $5 coupon for your first purchase too.


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## Carli

Yea i tried they only ship to US :-( such a shame theres a BIG market for it out here in Europe!


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## dickli

I wanted to try this, so I stopped at Whole Foods and asked to have the (on sale) chicken breasts ground. The guy told me that about 1 lb of the 3 lb package of breasts would be lost in the grinding machinery, so it's better to buy it off the shelf (but that was $2 per lb more expensive). Anyway, just wanted to give a heads up that you might not get the amount of chicken you expect if you have it freshly ground at the store.


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## MarinaGirl

And the Whole Foods I went to said they couldn't/wouldn't grind up meat for me. :hurt:


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## krandall

dickli said:


> I wanted to try this, so I stopped at Whole Foods and asked to have the (on sale) chicken breasts ground. The guy told me that about 1 lb of the 3 lb package of breasts would be lost in the grinding machinery, so it's better to buy it off the shelf (but that was $2 per lb more expensive). Anyway, just wanted to give a heads up that you might not get the amount of chicken you expect if you have it freshly ground at the store.


That is WIERD! I get a lb of meat when they grind meat for me. (They weigh and price it after they grind it) And the ground chicken on the shelf is thigh meat... Much cheaper, but MUCH higher in fat. I want good, lean meat, which is why I have them grind the breasts. Glad we don't have this problem around here! I go to two different Whole Foods Stores, and haven't had a bit of trouble at either one.

If I buy off the shelf, and I do at times, just because Whole Foods is a bit of a trip) I buy Wild Harvest ground turkey breast, no hormones or antibiotics, 93% lean.


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## krandall

MarinaGirl said:


> And the Whole Foods I went to said they couldn't/wouldn't grind up meat for me. :hurt:


Ridiculous. i'd complain to the manager. and i'd CERTAINLY complain to the manager about them charging me for a half pound less meat than they gave me!


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## dickli

I forgot to mention that he did give me a pound of the off-the-shelf ground chicken breast gratis. He said it was exactly the same as the breasts I wanted him to grind, and the package says it's breasts only, hormone and antibiotic free and freshly ground in the store. At $6.49/lb it just seems too expensive, especially since the whole breasts were only $4.99/lb. But he did say I would have to pay for whatever stuck in the grinder. I'll see how it goes with the dogs. I'm making a little tomorrow to try it out.


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## Terri

I had a good experience at whole foods, as they did grind my chicken up yesterday, no problem, and no extra charge. I agree that you should mention this to the General Manager, to see if this is their particular Whole Foods store policy or an error on the part of the person who served you. Hope it works out for you. Starting my dog tomorrow on the food, finished making it this morning and just put it in the freezer. By the way everyone, how many times a day do you feed your dogs? morning and night? Noticed Reilly putting on a few pounds and thought maybe I feed him too often, 2X day, but that was what the vet wrote down. HIs exercise has not changed so, 
mmm, me thinks perhaps its the kibble w/1 tablespoon of canned food even if they are both Merricks Grain Free...Well, time will tell soon enough.


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## Pucks104

Feed 2x/day once they are 5-7 months. Just keep an eye on portion size and treats.


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## Terri

thankyou. I am sorry, I forgot to tell everyone that he is approx. 2 1/2 years old .


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## RitaandRiley

Riley is the same age, I feed him twice daily. Sounds like you need to adjust the portion size if he weighs too much. Feed him the proper amount for what he should weigh, just divide it in half.


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## davetgabby

good to see we're talking about better food choices. I just wanted to mention a word of caution. Whenever one starts home preparation of meats etc. you have to be using safe methods. Here is a quote from Dr. Becker regarding this. ..." Dr. Becker ... Many veterinarians advise not to feed a homemade diet to your pets.

Why?

Simply because most pet owners - obviously with the best intentions at heart - do a poor job of preparing a well balanced, species-specific diet for their dog or cat.

Veterinarians, myself included, have witnessed far too many casualties resulting from pet owners' good intentions.

I have seen severe nutritional deficiencies, disease, and even irreversible organ damage due to unbalanced homemade diets.

Here's the thing&#8230;

Just because you toss together meat and a vegetable or two - or even worse - random leftover table scraps or a raw chicken

wing, you do NOT have an appropriately balanced diet!

You truly can cause more harm than good to your beloved pet if you don't know what you're doing. It's heartbreaking, but

true, to know you can bring about disease in your pet by feeding an unbalanced homemade diet.

Even though your pet may look healthy from the homemade diet you're feeding, nutritional deficiencies can easily go undetected in the beginning. Within two or three years, deficiencies can lead to major cardiovascular and organ changes. All it takes to cause harm is to leave out one essential nutrient". Here's her book

http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/real-food-for-healthy-dogs-and-cats-cookbook/

I would strongly recommend that if you want to prepare your dogs food, whether it be raw ,homecooked or any version where you are adding significant amounts to the diet, that you buy a book like hers, or consult with a nutritionist . 
Dr. Becker's worst food category is no. 13 which is IMPROPERLY PREPARED HOME RECIPES

Protein selection is not as simple as throwing in some chicken breast and "calling it a day. " as Dr. Becker says.

Chicken breast is a good source of protein but doesn't contain very many nutrients, so if someone fed only chicken breast, the diet would be severely deficient on trace minerals and some vitamins.

It's never as simple as it seems. And as far as suppliments are concerned. Even though some of the commercial diets are deemed "complete" and all stages , that doesn not make them ideal , it only means they meet regulations. Supplementing these diets is quite benefitial but it must also been done on a diet specific basis. Happy hunting and koodos to those whose strive to do better for their dogs.


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## Terri

thanks to all for responding with good information.Anyone care to comment on Dr. Beckers book? Has anyone followed her recommendations? Scares me to think I might be harming my dog by feeding him homemade food . From what I read here, most everyone uses supplements in or with the homemade food. My dog gets supplements (actually by Dr. Mercola) when he was eating commercial food and I will continue that with the homemade food. what say ye? Before I purchase that book, I would like some feedback on who has read and followed it. thanks. (Seems I opened a can of worms........)


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## emichel

Terri said:


> (Seems I opened a can of worms........)


That's easy to do around here.


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## HannahBearsMom

Terri said:


> thanks to all for responding with good information.Anyone care to comment on Dr. Beckers book? Has anyone followed her recommendations? Scares me to think I might be harming my dog by feeding him homemade food . From what I read here, most everyone uses supplements in or with the homemade food. My dog gets supplements (actually by Dr. Mercola) when he was eating commercial food and I will continue that with the homemade food. what say ye? Before I purchase that book, I would like some feedback on who has read and followed it. thanks. (Seems I opened a can of worms........)


For a few hundred dollars you can get a consultation with a board-certified veterinary nutritionist (a vet who is also trained as a nutritionist) at several vet schools. Univ of Tennessee and Cornell definitely provide that service.


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## RitaandRiley

Good to know!


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## FancyNancy

I started Henry on Karen's recipe yesterday. He loves it and so far his poops are perfect! I have been feeding him a complicated recipe from Sabine for a couple of years and I am sick to death of cooking and packaging it every week so this seems like a much easier alternative. I wouldn't have switched on the advise of any Tom, Dick, or Harry, but I totally trust Karen from the sensible entries she has always made on this forum. Thank you Karen for giving me a way to save time in my week without sacrificing the health of my baby!


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## krandall

dickli said:


> I forgot to mention that he did give me a pound of the off-the-shelf ground chicken breast gratis. He said it was exactly the same as the breasts I wanted him to grind, and the package says it's breasts only, hormone and antibiotic free and freshly ground in the store. At $6.49/lb it just seems too expensive, especially since the whole breasts were only $4.99/lb. But he did say I would have to pay for whatever stuck in the grinder. I'll see how it goes with the dogs. I'm making a little tomorrow to try it out.


Well, it's to be expected that you would need ro pay more for food that you have them process for you in some way... Especially if there is loss involved in the processing. If you want the cheaper meat, just take it home whole, and cut it up small tourself, either before or after cooking. You do pay for convenience.


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## HannahBearsMom

krandall said:


> Well, it's to be expected that you would need ro pay more for food that you have them process for you in some ay... Especially if there is loss involved in the processing. If you want the cheaper meat, just take it home whole, and cut it up small tourself, either before or after cooking. You do pay for convenience.


What Karen said. When I homecooked for Maccabee, I poached or broiled chicken breasts and then tossed them into my food processor. Don't process too long or you will end up with chicken paste.

Another option is HK food with the protein already in it. Maccabee eats HK Keen, which contains turkey, and he loves it.


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## krandall

FancyNancy said:


> I started Henry on Karen's recipe yesterday. He loves it and so far his poops are perfect! I have been feeding him a complicated recipe from Sabine for a couple of years and I am sick to death of cooking and packaging it every week so this seems like a much easier alternative. I wouldn't have switched on the advise of any Tom, Dick, or Harry, but I totally trust Karen from the sensible entries she has always made on this forum. Thank you Karen for giving me a way to save time in my week without sacrificing the health of my baby!


Just to be clear, I am FAR from an expert on nutrition. However, i did do my best to research the freeze dried food i chose, and to make sure that it is balanced with the meat I chose. ...then I checked what I was doing with both the nutritionist who works for the company and with my vet. (Who is not your average "jsut feed him Science Diet" vet, but who understands, supports and encourages the use of better quality diets.

I am a firm believer in raw, and would feed raw if I could. There is also nothing "magic" about chicken and turkey, except that they are two relatively low fat proteins that Kodi doesn't have a probelm with, and that i can get organic (or at least hormone and antibiotic free) at reasonable cost. We know Kodi is beef intolerant, so beef is out for us. Yes, there are other proteins, but since he has shown some food intolerance, we would prefer to hold some of the other proteins in reserve in case allergies show up in the future.

So what i chose for Kodi isn't necessarily rhe best choice for another dog OR another family. The point is, do your homework, and make your choices in a thoughtful manner.


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad

krandall said:


> So what i chose for Kodi isn't necessarily rhe best choice for another dog OR another family. The point is, do your homework, and make your choices in a thoughtful manner.


I would like to add my 2 cents to this thought.

It is so easy to lose focus in our quest to do what's best for our furbabies. My reaction to this thread is an example. I did my research months ago and settled on Primal Raw. It is within our budget and Gibbs seems to enjoy it. He's healthy and doing well.

I then read this thread and thought maybe there was something better out there for Gibbs. Maybe he'd enjoy H.K more, or maybe it is better, more nutritious etc. I then analyzed the cost, which is the same or slightly lower than Primal, and analyzed the nutritional value, which is roughtly equivalent to Primal.

I then discussed it with my wife who often keeps me from going off the deep end:

Why change if what we're doing is working well? It's not as if Gibbs isn't eating well and healthy. Stability and consistency is more important than chasing the "next great idea", as long as we are already providing is one of the many favored approaches.

I then decided to file this advice away in our bank of knowledge to draw on it in hte future should we experience any future problems.


----------



## krandall

Gibbs Mom and Dad said:


> I would like to add my 2 cents to this thought.
> 
> It is so easy to lose focus in our quest to do what's best for our furbabies. My reaction to this thread is an example. I did my research months ago and settled on Primal Raw. It is within our budget and Gibbs seems to enjoy it. He's healthy and doing well.
> 
> I then read this thread and thought maybe there was something better out there for Gibbs. Maybe he'd enjoy H.K more, or maybe it is better, more nutritious etc. I then analyzed the cost, which is the same or slightly lower than Primal, and analyzed the nutritional value, which is roughtly equivalent to Primal.
> 
> I then discussed it with my wife who often keeps me from going off the deep end:
> 
> Why change if what we're doing is working well? It's not as if Gibbs isn't eating well and healthy. Stability and consistency is more important than chasing the "next great idea", as long as we are already providing is one of the many favored approaches.
> 
> I then decided to file this advice away in our bank of knowledge to draw on it in hte future should we experience any future problems.


That's EXACTLY what I would have done, John. It makes me a little nervous when people start talking about me as some sort of guru&#8230; I definitely am NOT!


----------



## Nancy Collins

krandall said:


> Just to be clear, I am FAR from an expert on. We know Kodi is beef intolerant, so beef is out for us. Yes, there are other proteins, but since he has shown some food intolerance, we would prefer to hold some of the other proteins in reserve in case allergies show up in the future.
> 
> So what i chose for Kodi isn't necessarily rhe best choice for another dog OR another family. The point is, do your homework, and make your choices in a thoughtful manner.


Karen, just curious, what does the beef do to Kodi? Sonic (same parents as Kodi) also has issues with beef!


----------



## krandall

Nancy Collins said:


> Karen, just curious, what does the beef do to Kodi? Sonic (same parents as Kodi) also has issues with beef!


Poopy butt! :laugh:

&#8230;even in VERY small quantities. We had to switch him to a glucosamine supplement made from mussels, because the one made from bovine trachea was even enough to give him trouble.


----------



## Gibbs Mom and Dad

krandall said:


> It makes me a little nervous when people start talking about me as some sort of guru&#8230; I definitely am NOT!


:nono:

And I don't try and make people laugh at or with me. 

Face it, you're one of the forum experts and your opinions carry much wait.

I can understand how and why it makes you nervous to have so many people rely on your advice, but that's the cross you must bear for being so knowledgeable, experienced and helpful.

You should be more proud than nervous. Just think about the number of people and furbabies you've helped lead better lives, and further think about the number of people and animals they've helped.


----------



## Nancy Collins

krandall said:


> Poopy butt! :laugh:
> 
> &#8230;even in VERY small quantities. We had to switch him to a glucosamine supplement made from mussels, because the one made from bovine trachea was even enough to give him trouble.


I know how strange this will sound but beef makes Sonic have "excessive peeing spells"! It never fails. If I give him beef (homecooked, kibble, raw...doesn't matter) he will start drinking and peeing a ton...having accidents in the house. I have no explanation and just decided to stick to fish, chicken or turkey. :israel:


----------



## krandall

Gibbs Mom and Dad said:


> :nono:
> 
> And I don't try and make people laugh at or with me.
> 
> Face it, you're one of the forum experts and your opinions carry much wait.
> 
> I can understand how and why it makes you nervous to have so many people rely on your advice, but that's the cross you must bear for being so knowledgeable, experienced and helpful.
> 
> You should be more proud than nervous. Just think about the number of people and furbabies you've helped lead better lives, and further think about the number of people and animals they've helped.


Yeah, right! We KNOW you try to make us laugh! (and usually succeed!)

Seriously, though, I don't mind people taking what I say about training seriously&#8230; I DO feel like I have a good understanding of what'd going on there a lot of the time&#8230; and I don't say ANYTHING, if I don't feel pretty sure about what I'm saying.

That's a COMPLETELY different thing than talking about nutrition though&#8230; Then I can only tell people what I've chosen to do FOR MY DOG, and why. &#8230;And that might be a very different decision than the one made by someone else, for an equally valid reason.

If people learn anything from me as far as food is concerned, it's to do their homework, decide what is important to them and for their dog, and then make an informed decision.


----------



## FancyNancy

Here's one thing about the new diet Karen - all my white dishtowels are now green!!! Guess I'll have to switch to paper! But seriously, the new diet is great and so easy!!! Perfect poops!


----------



## krandall

Ha! Do I want to know why it's all over your dish towels?


----------



## FancyNancy

i'm messy! lol.


----------



## RitaandRiley

Two thoughts:
1. It's easy to grind meat at home. For example, my kitchenaid mixer has a grinding attachment. Hand grinders are cheap and not that hard to use for boneless meat. That way you know it's clean and not contaminated with something your dog should not have. Just saying.....
2. Riley cannot have beef in canned food. It gives him the runs. He can have fresh cooked or raw beef no problem. Figure that one out!


----------



## SJ1998

davetgabby said:


> good to see we're talking about better food choices. I just wanted to mention a word of caution. Whenever one starts home preparation of meats etc. you have to be using safe methods. Here is a quote from Dr. Becker regarding this. ..." Dr. Becker ... Many veterinarians advise not to feed a homemade diet to your pets.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Simply because most pet owners - obviously with the best intentions at heart - do a poor job of preparing a well balanced, species-specific diet for their dog or cat.
> 
> Veterinarians, myself included, have witnessed far too many casualties resulting from pet owners' good intentions.
> 
> I have seen severe nutritional deficiencies, disease, and even irreversible organ damage due to unbalanced homemade diets.
> 
> Here's the thing&#8230;
> 
> Just because you toss together meat and a vegetable or two - or even worse - random leftover table scraps or a raw chicken
> 
> wing, you do NOT have an appropriately balanced diet!
> 
> You truly can cause more harm than good to your beloved pet if you don't know what you're doing. It's heartbreaking, but
> 
> true, to know you can bring about disease in your pet by feeding an unbalanced homemade diet.
> 
> Even though your pet may look healthy from the homemade diet you're feeding, nutritional deficiencies can easily go undetected in the beginning. Within two or three years, deficiencies can lead to major cardiovascular and organ changes. All it takes to cause harm is to leave out one essential nutrient". Here's her book
> 
> http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/real-food-for-healthy-dogs-and-cats-cookbook/
> 
> I would strongly recommend that if you want to prepare your dogs food, whether it be raw ,homecooked or any version where you are adding significant amounts to the diet, that you buy a book like hers, or consult with a nutritionist .
> Dr. Becker's worst food category is no. 13 which is IMPROPERLY PREPARED HOME RECIPES
> 
> Protein selection is not as simple as throwing in some chicken breast and "calling it a day. " as Dr. Becker says.
> 
> Chicken breast is a good source of protein but doesn't contain very many nutrients, so if someone fed only chicken breast, the diet would be severely deficient on trace minerals and some vitamins.
> 
> It's never as simple as it seems. And as far as suppliments are concerned. Even though some of the commercial diets are deemed "complete" and all stages , that doesn not make them ideal , it only means they meet regulations. Supplementing these diets is quite benefitial but it must also been done on a diet specific basis. Happy hunting and koodos to those whose strive to do better for their dogs.


i did that with my lab. I started him as a puppy on commercial raw, then I started doing the food myself. I took him to the (holistic) vet for annual titers and she took one look at him and said he had a calcium problem and asked what I was feeding. She said the same thing happened to her dad's dog. In both cases we thought we were feeding higher quality proteins because we were buying them ourselves, but neither of us got the balance right. I didnt add anything like the HK or Balance IT.

Now I do commercial raw but I change brands and proteins regularly and also add vegetables and fresh proteins. Also avocados and papaya in small amounts. I use honest kitchen some as well, mostly Zeal and Embark. My lab doesnt seem to do as well if I use lamb, so I dont, and my hav doesnt do as well on beef. So they mostly follow a swim or fly diet for the proteins.


----------



## krandall

SJ1998 said:


> i did that with my lab. I started him as a puppy on commercial raw, then I started doing the food myself. I took him to the (holistic) vet for annual titers and she took one look at him and said he had a calcium problem and asked what I was feeding. She said the same thing happened to her dad's dog. In both cases we thought we were feeding higher quality proteins because we were buying them ourselves, but neither of us got the balance right. I didnt add anything like the HK or Balance IT.
> 
> Now I do commercial raw but I change brands and proteins regularly and also add vegetables and fresh proteins. Also avocados and papaya in small amounts. I use honest kitchen some as well, mostly Zeal and Embark. My lab doesnt seem to do as well if I use lamb, so I dont, and my hav doesnt do as well on beef. So they mostly follow a swim or fly diet for the proteins.


I agree completely. I would NEVER try to just make up a diet on my own. I know people who do it, and it's a LOT of work to do right. Using the combination of locally available, quality protein source and a high quality commercial "mixer" is a great choice for me.


----------



## SJ1998

krandall said:


> I agree completely. I would NEVER try to just make up a diet on my own. I know people who do it, and it's a LOT of work to do right. Using the combination of locally available, quality protein source and a high quality commercial "mixer" is a great choice for me.


Yes I agree. This weekend I am going to ask my whole foods if they will grind the chicken  The one in my area is not exactly customer facing so we'll see. I used to live in Austin and go to the flagship store. I really miss that one!


----------



## SJ1998

krandall said:


> I agree completely. I would NEVER try to just make up a diet on my own. I know people who do it, and it's a LOT of work to do right. Using the combination of locally available, quality protein source and a high quality commercial "mixer" is a great choice for me.


Totally off topic but did I read elsewhere that you have a Les Pooch? The gold one? I am going to buy one. My guy's coat is not bad but any labor saving device is well worth an investment in my opinion. I have the CC 005 but I want something for the face. I have a sable so his face is quite light and shows everything!


----------



## krandall

SJ1998 said:


> Yes I agree. This weekend I am going to ask my whole foods if they will grind the chicken  The one in my area is not exactly customer facing so we'll see. I used to live in Austin and go to the flagship store. I really miss that one!


You know, the other thing is, there is no saying the meat has to be ground. Dogs have teeth.  You could easily by whatever meat you wanted, then just cube it before or after cooking.


----------



## krandall

SJ1998 said:


> Totally off topic but did I read elsewhere that you have a Les Pooch? The gold one? I am going to buy one. My guy's coat is not bad but any labor saving device is well worth an investment in my opinion. I have the CC 005 but I want something for the face. I have a sable so his face is quite light and shows everything!


Yes, I do. It's the yellow one. (which, if I remember correctly, is the softest one) I LOVE it!


----------



## SJ1998

krandall said:


> Yes, I do. It's the yellow one. (which, if I remember correctly, is the softest one) I LOVE it!


Thank you!!!


----------



## SJ1998

krandall said:


> You know, the other thing is, there is no saying the meat has to be ground. Dogs have teeth.  You could easily by whatever meat you wanted, then just cube it before or after cooking.


That's true! Thanks!


----------



## Terri

Hi Karen, just one question. I have been using your receipe and its great. But, it seems when I make the food and rehydrate, it is a bit loose,a bit watery. Am I not leaving it long enough to rehydrate? I put 5 cups of food and 2-3&3/4 cups water for the 5 cups of food,( as I think I read 3 &3/4 for 2 1/2 cups food.0 Then I put in 2# meat. Looks ok, but the food is a bit wetter than I think it should be. How long do you let the food rehydrate before mixing in the meat ? By the way, my dog eats it anyway, and he looks much better than he was looking on his kibble. thanks, terri


----------



## sandypaws

Terri said:


> Hi Karen, just one question. I have been using your receipe and its great. But, it seems when I make the food and rehydrate, it is a bit loose,a bit watery. Am I not leaving it long enough to rehydrate? I put 5 cups of food and 2-3&3/4 cups water for the 5 cups of food,( as I think I read 3 &3/4 for 2 1/2 cups food.0 Then I put in 2# meat. Looks ok, but the food is a bit wetter than I think it should be. How long do you let the food rehydrate before mixing in the meat ? By the way, my dog eats it anyway, and he looks much better than he was looking on his kibble. thanks, terri


I'll let Karen answer your question because you're using her recipe, but I find that it depends on how much water you add to HK whether it comes out wet or dry, not the amount of time you rehydrate it. I use either Zeal or Force, however, which do not require the addition of a protein as they are complete and grain free.


----------



## krandall

sandypaws said:


> I'll let Karen answer your question because you're using her recipe, but I find that it depends on how much water you add to HK whether it comes out wet or dry, not the amount of time you rehydrate it. I use either Zeal or Force, however, which do not require the addition of a protein as they are complete and grain free.


Ha! It's not "my" recipe, Mary&#8230; It's the one on the bag! 

But I agree with you, it depends on how much water you add. Obviously, you want to add enough water that there is no chance that the freeze dried food hasn't absorbed all it can&#8230; you don't want it to pull water OUT of the gut after the dog eats it. But I have found that with both HK and Sojo's, their recommendations for water are pretty generous&#8230;. probably to keep people from making the mistake of not using ENOUGH water. If you follow the directions on a package of Sojo's, you basically have soup, no matter HOW long you let it wait. So I have learned how much water I can get the HK to absorb without it being soupy, and that's the amount I use. I can't give you an exact amount, because I kind of do it by feel. I think the package says to wait at least 15 minutes, so I make SURE that it is well-hydrated at 15 minutes before mixing in the meat.

Incidentally, I've added bison to the meat rotation for Kodi along with his turkey and chicken, since I found a source for organic, grass fed bison.


----------



## sandypaws

krandall said:


> Ha! It's not "my" recipe, Mary&#8230; It's the one on the bag!
> 
> But I agree with you, it depends on how much water you add. Obviously, you want to add enough water that there is no chance that the freeze dried food hasn't absorbed all it can&#8230; you don't want it to pull water OUT of the gut after the dog eats it. But I have found that with both HK and Sojo's, their recommendations for water are pretty generous&#8230;. probably to keep people from making the mistake of not using ENOUGH water. If you follow the directions on a package of Sojo's, you basically have soup, no matter HOW long you let it wait. So I have learned how much water I can get the HK to absorb without it being soupy, and that's the amount I use. I can't give you an exact amount, because I kind of do it by feel. I think the package says to wait at least 15 minutes, so I make SURE that it is well-hydrated at 15 minutes before mixing in the meat.
> 
> Incidentally, I've added bison to the meat rotation for Kodi along with his turkey and chicken, since I found a source for organic, grass fed bison.


I find that if I use the recommended water on the Zeal, which is fish based, that it will be soupy, so I cut back a bit, but the Force, which is chicken based, does require the recommended amount or even a little more. Different consistencies in each product. HK is the only food that Tyler has really gone nuts for in his entire 16+ years. He was always been one who would skip meals every now and then. It makes me feel so good to see him eat with gusto.


----------



## Terri

Thankyou both! I just made a new batch this afternoon and poured the water in from my measuring cup slowly, not all at once so I could see how it was doing. Just a little less than what I had used before and it seems really good. It hydrated for 15 minutes as per the box and as I did before,and it was not at all dry nor too soupy, (no straw needed-hehe) even after the chicken was added.


----------



## Thebean28

I have a question about how you handle this kind of food if you're traveling? Also, what if your dog is staying with someone for a few days? It's easy enough to give the muffins to a friend to put in their freezer, but what if you're taking them on vacation and staying at a hotel?

I"m considering changing from dry to a diet like this, but trying to think it all through 

Thanks!


----------



## Pucks104

Though I have moved to using The Honest Kitchen Preference and added meat for Leo's meals at home I use other of The Honest Kitchen types that include meat and are complete meals when we travel. I take water from home in gallon jug(s) depending on how long we will be gone and just mix the meals just before Leo's breakfast or evening meals. This has worked well. I have had access to a microwave for warming the water prior to mixing it with the dehydrated food.


----------



## FancyNancy

I hope Karen will chime in on this, but I was recently traveling by car for a few days and I handled it by giving Henry some low fat canned food that I knew was so mild it wouldn't jar his system. I used Purina I/D Restore. However, I think a healthier solution - and one I may try in the future - is to use one of the Honest Kitchen complete foods - the ones which are a complete diet in themselves. I will try one of these before a trip and see how he does. If it seems OK then I think I could use it for a trip and not worry about adding meat which might spoil.


----------



## sandypaws

Going with the HK complete foods works very well. Tyler eats HK Force (chicken) and/or Zeal (fish) twice daily and is doing very well. The biggest plus is that he LOVES his food now. He can't wait for me to prepare his meals and gobbles them down. This is important to me because he has never really eaten with gusto before. I still use a small amount of kibble with the HK and prepare enough for only his two meals a day. Thus, doing it that way, it would be very easy to use when traveling.


----------



## Carmenchanwong

When is the best time to introduce canned food/homemade / frozen raw food to the puppy?


----------



## davetgabby

Carmenchanwong said:


> When is the best time to introduce canned food/homemade / frozen raw food to the puppy?


slowly over two week period. ASAP


----------



## Thebean28

Thanks for the answers. Another question I had was does raw food require greater teeth care since it's softer than kibble?


----------



## Pucks104

I think daily tooth brushing is important regardless of the type of food fed. I think this is especially important for small dogs!


----------



## Carmenchanwong

Dave, Prince will be 11 weeks when i pick him up this coming weekend, so I can introduce the canned food to him, i mean in this young age?


----------



## krandall

Just to chime in, we really haven't gone anyplace that it has been a problem keeping Kodi's food refrigerated or frozen. Even driving all the way from Boston to Chicago last summer, I just packed it in a cooler with ice packs and off we went. If I were going somewhere that refrigeration was a problem, I'd do what others have suggested, and transition him to one of the complete freeze dried foods well before we left, and re-hydrate as we went along. 

As far as kibble keeping their teeth clean? It doesn't. It actually sticks to teeth. The only thing that keeps teeth clean is regular brushing… just like people.


----------



## davetgabby

Carmenchanwong said:


> Dave, Prince will be 11 weeks when i pick him up this coming weekend, so I can introduce the canned food to him, i mean in this young age?


yep. And raw can be introduced at nine weeks too. Raw is better for teeth than kibble. , but yes you still have to brush .


----------



## krandall

Carmenchanwong said:


> Dave, Prince will be 11 weeks when i pick him up this coming weekend, so I can introduce the canned food to him, i mean in this young age?


You can introduce canned food at any age. HOWEVER, don't change your puppy's food for at least a couple of weeks after he comes home to you. He will have enough upheaval in his young life without changing his food too. Your breeder will probably send him home with a supply of the food he has been eating. Use that to slowly transition over to whatever you choose to feed him. If you change things too fast or too soon, you can end up with a lot more butt baths than will make EITHER of you happy!


----------



## Pucks104

When you bring your puppy home give him a couple weeks on the same food that the breeder has been feeding. This will be one less change during this time of many many changes. You will also have a chance to see if the pup will be dealing with any parasite issues. But then you can go ahead and begin very slowly switching him over to whatever diet you choose. You do not need to feed a "puppy" food just one that is complete and balanced or something like The Honest Kitchen that you add either raw or cooked meat to. Check dogfoodadvisor.com to do some comparisons of foods you might wish to feed. It is important to feed the best quality food you can as it will help keep your puppy healthier.


----------



## SJ1998

I put my dogs on a combination of Honest Kitchen Preference and a protein (usually a commercial raw such as OC or Primal). I have noticed a difference in my dogs, especially my older lab. He is much more energetic.


----------



## Terri

Great to hear..Now your dogs are part of the honest kitchen foodies!!! wonderful for them and they are showing it.


----------



## SJ1998

It is very interesting to see the difference. Before it was all raw - maybe too many calories or something.


----------



## Suzi

Okay I love the idea of this food . If I stopped going to Starbucks at $2.00 a day And I deduct what I spend now on kibble and add buying coffee for home . 
$1.68 per day
$51 per month
$613 per year

Coffee $2.00 per day
$60.00 per month
$720.00 per year.
Oh I forgot I have two dogs:frusty: I could quit smoking and have enough for my Starbucks too. I could use cheaper chicken the kind I buy for myself. .99 lb
I'm sure it would still be better than the kibble. :hungry:


----------



## Suzi

MarinaGirl said:


> And the Whole Foods I went to said they couldn't/wouldn't grind up meat for me. :hurt:


 If I do it I'm just going to put my meat in my crock pot and stew it get the bones out and fat off.  I've never tried to feed pork Zoey seems to have a bad taste for beef but it has been a long time since I offered it.


----------



## Suzi

RitaandRiley said:


> Two thoughts:
> 1. It's easy to grind meat at home. For example, my kitchenaid mixer has a grinding attachment. Hand grinders are cheap and not that hard to use for boneless meat. That way you know it's clean and not contaminated with something your dog should not have. Just saying.....
> 2. Riley cannot have beef in canned food. It gives him the runs. He can have fresh cooked or raw beef no problem. Figure that one out!


 I don't think it would have to be ground . Unless it makes it more mixable to get even amounts? I would think one could weigh it out and just put the meat in the bottom of the muffin tins and add the other on top. It all goes down the same tube anyway.:ranger:


----------



## krandall

Suzi said:


> I don't think it would have to be ground . Unless it makes it more mixable to get even amounts? I would think one could weigh it out and just put the meat in the bottom of the muffin tins and add the other on top. It all goes down the same tube anyway.:ranger:


Yes, there's no reason that it HAS to be ground&#8230; Just makes it easier to portion. In a pinch, I've used boneless, skinnless chicken (hey, I'm lazy!  ) and cut it up fairly small, cooked it and used that.


----------



## Suzi

Hi Karen, I just went to go buy some and my store was out of samples. He did however find a product called Sojos. I know you cant feed raw but I think unless someone has researched this brand that I may try it. The cost is very affordable. I've found several places where its like $70.00 for a 8 lb bag. 
8lb bag 
4.6 cups to a pound
8 x 4.6 = 36.8 cups in a 8 lb bag
serving is 1/2 c a day for a dog up to 12 lb. ( Kodi would eat more  
So if I'm doing this right I can feed both my girls a raw diet for about $70.00 a mo. That's really only twice the amount I spend now. 
My feed store guy needs a lesson in switching food to fast. He said just give them this and see if they like it. It says right on the bag to give it a ten day introduction a small amount and add a bit more for ten days.
I also paid for a small box of your brand but he only had one with turkey already in it. I do like the idea of raw freeze dried. It seems like a good way to have the bacteria controlled. 
* Has anyone studied Sojos? *


----------



## krandall

Suzi said:


> Hi Karen, I just went to go buy some and my store was out of samples. He did however find a product called Sojos. I know you cant feed raw but I think unless someone has researched this brand that I may try it. The cost is very affordable. I've found several places where its like $70.00 for a 8 lb bag.
> 8lb bag
> 4.6 cups to a pound
> 8 x 4.6 = 36.8 cups in a 8 lb bag
> serving is 1/2 c a day for a dog up to 12 lb. ( Kodi would eat more
> So if I'm doing this right I can feed both my girls a raw diet for about $70.00 a mo. That's really only twice the amount I spend now.
> My feed store guy needs a lesson in switching food to fast. He said just give them this and see if they like it. It says right on the bag to give it a ten day introduction a small amount and add a bit more for ten days.
> I also paid for a small box of your brand but he only had one with turkey already in it. I do like the idea of raw freeze dried. It seems like a good way to have the bacteria controlled.
> * Has anyone studied Sojos? *


The only thing about Sojos is that they HAVE occasionally used ingredients sourced from China when they couldn't find them locally. I tried it before I knew about the ingredients from China, and Kodi did like it. But it worried me, so I gave the rest away. That said, I haven't heard of any dogs having a problem with it.

Mary (Tyler's mom) uses the HK with the meat in it already, and Tyler has been doing great on it.

You will have to increase the volume of food you feed, because any wet food, whether it's raw, canned, home made or rehydrated freeze dried has a much more water in it, so larger volume for the same amount of calories. Kodi ate 1/4C of kibble twice a day, and eats about a half cup of either canned or HK+meat per meal.


----------



## Suzi

That is good information thank you. I went by the weight on the bag. But I too don't feel comfortable about the china thing. Everyone has so many different answers to food. Someone else just told me they wouldn't feed a total freeze dried diet. but she is a real raw person. She compared it to eating jurkey every day.( Maybe she doesn't realize how much water is added) I would think that freeze dried would be better as far as not cooking out vitamins .


----------



## krandall

Suzi said:


> That is good information thank you. I went by the weight on the bag. But I too don't feel comfortable about the china thing. Everyone has so many different answers to food. Someone else just told me they wouldn't feed a total freeze dried diet. but she is a real raw person. She compared it to eating jurkey every day.( Maybe she doesn't realize how much water is added) I would think that freeze dried would be better as far as not cooking out vitamins .


I think you can make yourself crazy over food. I think you just have to do the best that makes sense for you and that agrees with your dogs' stomaches!


----------



## Carmenchanwong

krandall said:


> The only thing about Sojos is that they HAVE occasionally used ingredients sourced from China when they couldn't find them locally. I tried it before I knew about the ingredients from China, and Kodi did like it. But it worried me, so I gave the rest away. That said, I haven't heard of any dogs having a problem with it.
> 
> Mary (Tyler's mom) uses the HK with the meat in it already, and Tyler has been doing great on it.
> 
> You will have to increase the volume of food you feed, because any wet food, whether it's raw, canned, home made or rehydrated freeze dried has a much more water in it, so larger volume for the same amount of calories. Kodi ate 1/4C of kibble twice a day, and eats about a half cup of either canned or HK+meat per meal.


I finally started feeding Prince the HK embark. ( the HK staff recommended the embark , not the preference for puppy)
He eats 1/4 cup + 1 freeze dried beef in the morning , and 1/3 cup at evening ( which is around 350 cal) + some training treats/blueberries and chicken neck as a nature's toothbrush, every other day.

Problem is .....he poops a lot, about 3-4 times a day, pretty good shape but "large amount".....

I thought the kibble produce large amount of poops...


----------



## krandall

Carmenchanwong said:


> I finally started feeding Prince the HK embark. ( the HK staff recommended the embark , not the preference for puppy)
> He eats 1/4 cup + 1 freeze dried beef in the morning , and 1/3 cup at evening ( which is around 350 cal) + some training treats/blueberries and chicken neck as a nature's toothbrush, every other day.
> 
> Problem is .....he poops a lot, about 3-4 times a day, pretty good shape but "large amount".....
> 
> I thought the kibble produce large amount of poops...


I just think puppies poop more often than adult dogs. When you think of it, they eat about the same amount as an adult dog, but their bodies are much smaller. I don't think it's surprising that they need to go more.

Kodi didn't settle into his twice a day routine until he was an adult.


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## Carmenchanwong

krandall said:


> I just think puppies poop more often than adult dogs. When you think of it, they eat about the same amount as an adult dog, but their bodies are much smaller. I don't think it's surprising that they need to go more.
> 
> Kodi didn't settle into his twice a day routine until he was an adult.


Thanks Karen,
Our vet said....he's old enough to switch to twice a day feeding schedule.....:suspicious: and she suggested that I should switch to adult food when Prince turns 6 months old.
I'm kind of notice that he sleeps a bit more than usual..........maybe not enough cal ???


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## krandall

Carmenchanwong said:


> Thanks Karen,
> Our vet said....he's old enough to switch to twice a day feeding schedule.....:suspicious: and she suggested that I should switch to adult food when Prince turns 6 months old.
> I'm kind of notice that he sleeps a bit more than usual..........maybe not enough cal ???


Puppy sleep habits change a lot over the first year. I would go more by his weight and how he feels under your hands. You should be able to feel ribs fairly close to the surface, but you should have to work a little harder to feel pelvic bones. There are many more too-fat dogs in the U.S. than dogs that are too skinny!


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## Suzi

Sometimes puppy's go through growing spurts and sleep more. I changed Maddie to adult food at one year Zory was 9 mo. But my vet never said anything about that. I wouldn't worry about how many times your puppy goes poo. Its a natural thing.


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## MarinaGirl

Carmenchanwong said:


> I finally started feeding Prince the HK embark. ( the HK staff recommended the embark , not the preference for puppy)
> He eats 1/4 cup + 1 freeze dried beef in the morning , and 1/3 cup at evening ( which is around 350 cal) + some training treats/blueberries and chicken neck as a nature's toothbrush, every other day.
> 
> Problem is .....he poops a lot, about 3-4 times a day, pretty good shape but "large amount".....
> 
> I thought the kibble produce large amount of poops...


When I feed Emmie Honest Kitchen, she still poops twice a day; however, the amount is greater than when she eats ZiwiPeak or Primal, or raw poultry necks.


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## Carmenchanwong

MarinaGirl said:


> When I feed Emmie Honest Kitchen, she still poops twice a day; however, the amount is greater than when she eats ZiwiPeak or Primal, or raw poultry necks.[/QUOTE
> 
> agreed.....if you don't know him, you probably think those are from the adult dog:jaw:


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## krandall

MarinaGirl said:


> When I feed Emmie Honest Kitchen, she still poops twice a day; however, the amount is greater than when she eats ZiwiPeak or Primal, or raw poultry necks.


That doesn't surprise me, since HK has a lot more vegetable matter and fiber in it, and dogs digest that less thorougly than pure meat.


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## Suzi

I bought a sample of the HK with turkey. It was the only one my store had. The smell was really good. And the sisters love it. The problem is I'm going to have to find a new store because the owner is discontinuing it and promoting sojos. I haven't had a chance to tell him about the china ingredients.
I tried introducing the freeze dried slow and the problem is now the sisters wont eat the dry kibble. I thought maybe I could save a bit of money by giving half and half. I've created a monster. Now I trying to add water to the dry in tell it swells up so it will mix in better. I think the box is $70.00 and my dry food is like $15 for a small bag. I'm starting to think I'm thinking to much. I hate not having money. I work for Walmart in the produce department and have been trying for full time for over two years. I apply for new jobs at least four time a week. I just applied to a good one so keep your fingers crossed so my fur baby's can eat Honest kitchen! 
I also tried to find your tooth paste at my store and he didn't have it. I looked at the finger brushes and thought they looked to big. Someone else just uses their finger I'm wondering if that would work. I tried a toothbrush when thay were young and couldn't control it that well.


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## My2Havs

Suzi said:


> I bought a sample of the HK with turkey. It was the only one my store had. The smell was really good. And the sisters love it. The problem is I'm going to have to find a new store because the owner is discontinuing it and promoting sojos. I haven't had a chance to tell him about the china ingredients.
> I tried introducing the freeze dried slow and the problem is now the sisters wont eat the dry kibble. I thought maybe I could save a bit of money by giving half and half. I've created a monster. Now I trying to add water to the dry in tell it swells up so it will mix in better. I think the box is $70.00 and my dry food is like $15 for a small bag. I'm starting to think I'm thinking to much. I hate not having money. I work for Walmart in the produce department and have been trying for full time for over two years. I apply for new jobs at least four time a week. I just applied to a good one so keep your fingers crossed so my fur baby's can eat Honest kitchen!
> I also tried to find your tooth paste at my store and he didn't have it. I looked at the finger brushes and thought they looked to big. Someone else just uses their finger I'm wondering if that would work. I tried a toothbrush when thay were young and couldn't control it that well.


HK sells small boxes too, a 2 lb box is around $20-25 and is equivalent to an 8 lb bag of kibble so that's reasonable. It'll be fresher than buying a huge $70 box also. If you buy online they have a reward program too and you'll be able to get some extra freebies with your points. They just came out with some new recipes also and have one that's all vegetable and you add your own meat. www.thehonestkitchen.com
Monica, Dooley & Roxie


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## krandall

Pet food Direct also sells it on-line quite reasonably. That's where I get it, because no one local has it reliably. (and it it a LOT more when I can find it locally)


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## SJ1998

I have noticed that my dogs also poo more with honest kitchen, but they both look better and have more energy. The difference is much more noticeable in my lab. He has always been on a raw diet but with the honest kitchen + raw combo he looks even better and has a ton of energy.


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## Carmenchanwong

SJ1998 said:


> I have noticed that my dogs also poo more with honest kitchen, but they both look better and have more energy. The difference is much more noticeable in my lab. He has always been on a raw diet but with the honest kitchen + raw combo he looks even better and has a ton of energy.


My 4.5 months pup was gaining almost 1lb in 10 days after switching to HK embark. His energy level seems low......and sleeps a lot.:suspicious:


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## SJ1998

Carmenchanwong said:


> My 4.5 months pup was gaining almost 1lb in 10 days after switching to HK embark. His energy level seems low......and sleeps a lot.:suspicious:


That is interesting, have you tried raw on its own and how does he do on that?

I'm using the preference and mixing it as a supplement to OC Raw or Primal Raw depending upon the day. So for example I will feed them some preference mixed in with OC chicken sliders for a few days. Then I will switch to the Preference + Primal turkey and sardine for a few days. I wasnt planning on switching until I noticed the difference with my lab...maybe he was getting too many calories on full raw or something.


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## Suzi

Here is mine  My dog food bag says 1/4 to 1/3 cup a day and it's the same for the Honest kitchen . I've always just free feed the sisters so its hard for me to know how much they eat. I had thought Zoey eats more and she does weigh a couple pounds more than Maddie. 
My 3 cups dry made 12 1/4 cup eh muffins. 
It was funny because I just gave maddie 1/4 cup mixture and zoey a bit more. I turned around and maddie's bowl was empty and she was working on Zoeys.
I think I have over feed them for the day because this morning they got about the same. So that's about 1/2 cup of food for the day each. And that according to the package is to much.Were not getting as much exercise lately. But mine have never been over eaters . It could be that they just love their new food.
1/8 cup twice a day doesn't seem like enough to me.:brick: I'm happy I finally followed threw with this project. Thanks Karen :whoo: The sisters thank you too. I hope I accomplished my goal for more fiber. And Zoey will heal with good nutrition.


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## krandall

Suzi said:


> Here is mine  My dog food bag says 1/4 to 1/3 cup a day and it's the same for the Honest kitchen . I've always just free feed the sisters so its hard for me to know how much they eat. I had thought Zoey eats more and she does weigh a couple pounds more than Maddie.
> My 3 cups dry made 12 1/4 cup eh muffins.
> It was funny because I just gave maddie 1/4 cup mixture and zoey a bit more. I turned around and maddie's bowl was empty and she was working on Zoeys.
> I think I have over feed them for the day because this morning they got about the same. So that's about 1/2 cup of food for the day each. And that according to the package is to much.Were not getting as much exercise lately. But mine have never been over eaters . It could be that they just love their new food.
> 1/8 cup twice a day doesn't seem like enough to me.:brick: I'm happy I finally followed threw with this project. Thanks Karen :whoo: The sisters thank you too. I hope I accomplished my goal for more fiber. And Zoey will heal with good nutrition.


They are probably talking about 1/8c dry, before you add the water. You are going to have to play with the amounts. Remember that while it's great for them to get the moisture in wet food, there are no calories in that. So you can't measure it the way you did kibble. The volume will always be greater with wet food, whether it's reconstituted freeze dried or canned.

I fount that for Kodi, his "muffins" ended up being about 1/2c of very moist mixture. I started with 1/3c and he lost a bit of weight, so I increased it. It can take some time to get just the right amount when changing kinds of food. Kodi goes for Chiro every 6 weeks, so I weigh him at the vet's office. But if that's not convenient, just weigh yourself, then hold each of them while you weigh yourself again and subtract to get their weight. Do it now, and decide whether you think they are at a good weight, too heavy or too thin. Then weigh them weekly and see how they are doing, adjusting from there.

I would NOT feed them based on how much of it they want to eat. Most dogs LOVE it, and will over-eat. Even if yours were maintaining good weight if free fed on kibble, I wouldn't trust that to work with any wet food. (not just HK) Plus, it will go bad if left out. You want them to finish their meal in 10 minutes or less. If they don't, pick it up, cover it and put it in the refrigerator. you can offer it again for dinner (or their next breakfast).

I'd also separate them while you feed them if Maddie keeps trying to take Zoey's food. Otherwise, you'll never figure out how much each one needs. I know you use an ex-pen&#8230; maybe you can put one inside and one outside to eat.


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## Pucks104

I had been feeding Leo 1/2 cup HK Preference with 1/2 cup raw meat mixed with about 3/4 cups water daily split into 2 meals. DH really hated dealing with raw meat and I couldn't keep weight on Leo. So I went to adding 3 patties of Stella & Chewy's to 1/2 cup HK Preference (DH knows it's still raw meat but doesn't look the same). However, that started up some tearing and staining around the eyes though the weight stabilized. So I have moved to 3/4 cup HK Embark with 3/4 cup water mixed in split into morning and evening meals. The eye tearing staining has cleared and the weight seems to be stable and DH will feed so I think this is the route we'll go until something else changes!


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## 31818

I just switched over from kibble to Honest Kitchen Preference two weeks ago. My Momi boils up some Costco chicken breast which she shreds and adds to HK. I cannot get enough of this stuff! :hungry: I dance, scratch my Popi's leg, and whine while my meal is being prepared. My bowl is empty in less than a minute.......and I'm looking for more! :hungry:

I am one year old and weigh 14 pounds (of energetic muscle) and I eat 3/8 cup twice a day, around 8am and 4pm. This is supplemented by some food (steamed carrots, plain popcorn, chicken liver/sweet potato treats) during the day for training purposes. My energy level is up (how is that possible?), I take a dumparoonie 2 to 3 times a day, they are firm but not hard (no need for butt bath), they are less smelly than with kibble, and they are a little bit greenish color. As Senora Karen says, "easy peasy."

muchas gracias amigo Kodi for this great suggestion. I owe you one buddy!

su amigo Ricky Ricardo


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## Jazi

*urine balance*

Hi, thanks for the information. My Havi has had urine infections, but she is clear now. Do you know if this method of yours helps keep the pH balance of the urine?


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## krandall

Not a clue. Whenever you are dealing with an animal with a specific health issue that could be affected by diet, you should consult a nutritionist.


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## Heather's

I tried HK Preference a few months ago. I boiled chicken breasts and shredded them. Then I added the shredded chicken to the mix. Scout and Truffles sniffed and walked away. Even tried to hand feed them. I was so hoping they would like HK because it would be so much easier...


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## krandall

Heather Glen said:


> I tried HK Preference a few months ago. I boiled chicken breasts and shredded them. Then I added the shredded chicken to the mix. Scout and Truffles sniffed and walked away. Even tried to hand feed them. I was so hoping they would like HK because it would be so much easier...


Yours are the first dogs I've heard of who didn't gobble it up! I'd still feed it to Kodi if it weren't for his allergies!


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## Heather's

I was so disappointed after all the time spent preparing it.


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