# What a difference diet can make



## dbeech

I am member of another forum and one of the members there has Cotons. In the past year, she transitioned her dog from premium kibble to an entirely raw diet. Look at the difference in staining. Hard to tell from the photos, but her owner says her coat is much nicer now also.


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## Kathie

That is amazing!


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## davetgabby

yep no surpises here.


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## TilliesMom

WOW!!! I would think with the raw it would leave more staining than with kibble!? Awesome!! Dave, do you have an article as to WHY this makes such a big difference in our dogs??


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## littlebuddy

i know everyone who feeds raw loves it and so do their dogs but is raw recommended for dog with major health issues? i have to watch protein intake due to my dogs addisons and if i am not mistaken raw is high in protein. i am hesitant to switch for that reason.... i haven't had this conversation yet with my vet but with all his health and allergy issues i don't know if it's the right food for him.

i had switched him from wellness kibble to ziwipeak 4 years ago, right before his down hill spiral with addisoins and i have to admit, he went crazy for it. he was on it such a short time it was hard to notice any benefits, plus, part of me wonders of that was the culprit for his downward spiral.


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## dbeech

TilliesMom said:


> WOW!!! I would think with the raw it would leave more staining than with kibble!? Awesome!! Dave, do you have an article as to WHY this makes such a big difference in our dogs??


I think the staining is from saliva, not the food itself.


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## dbeech

littlebuddy said:


> i know everyone who feeds raw loves it and so do their dogs but is raw recommended for dog with major health issues? i have to watch protein intake due to my dogs addisons and if i am not mistaken raw is high in protein. i am hesitant to switch for that reason.... i haven't had this conversation yet with my vet but with all his health and allergy issues i don't know if it's the right food for him.
> 
> i had switched him from wellness kibble to ziwipeak 4 years ago, right before his down hill spiral with addisoins and i have to admit, he went crazy for it. he was on it such a short time it was hard to notice any benefits, plus, part of me wonders of that was the culprit for his downward spiral.


Have you done a nutritional consult with Sabine at betterdogcare.com? It is really pretty reasonable and I think could be helpful to Django.


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## TilliesMom

interesting...


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## davetgabby

TilliesMom said:


> WOW!!! I would think with the raw it would leave more staining than with kibble!? Awesome!! Dave, do you have an article as to WHY this makes such a big difference in our dogs??


As far as research goes not really. Sabine says raw food is less processed (especially from the aspect of rendered meats and fats), and as a rule contains fewer additives, so many possible irritants are already absent in raw. She also says ..."As far as I know, there is no single kibble ingredient that would specifically cause staining. It's more of a "big picture" thing where specific processes in the body cause a problem, such as a weak immune system. I'm sure if the pet food industry had a way of figuring it out, they would sell specific "non staining" types of food for a lot of money. Show breeders would go nuts over that. "


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## Jplatthy

WOW that really is amazing! What a difference.


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## HavaneseSoon

How old is the dog?


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## littlebuddy

i have had a consult with Sabina and to be honest, was so overwhelmed by her recomemndations. at the time we were travleing alot and there was never enough time to transition from kibble to her diet. his issues change all the time so i know i would have to start over with her and set up a new consult with probably a new diet.


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## Suzi

What is a example of a raw diet. Do you just buy it at the butchers ? Dave does your girl have staining from the caned food you use? And I cant remember what kind it is.


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## dbeech

HavaneseSoon said:


> How old is the dog?


She is 4 years old.


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## dbeech

Suzi said:


> What is a example of a raw diet. Do you just buy it at the butchers ? Dave does your girl have staining from the caned food you use? And I cant remember what kind it is.


Unikko is primarily fed pre-packaged frozen raw food. This owner is in Europe, but what she feeds sounds similar to Nature's Variety which is available here. She supplements with raw chicken necks and eggs.


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## Suzi

dbeech said:


> Unikko is primarily fed pre-packaged frozen raw food. This owner is in Europe, but what she feeds sounds similar to Nature's Variety which is available here. She supplements with raw chicken necks and eggs.


 Debbie do you feed a Raw diet? If not do your dogs get stains around their mouths?


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## dbeech

Suzi said:


> Debbie do you feed a Raw diet? If not do your dogs get stains around their mouths?


I feed partially raw. I give my dogs Nature's Variety in the morning and feed Orijen in the evening. They don't eat much kibble at night because I usually give them some cooked chicken, fish or beef from whatever I am making for the family. Neither of my dogs has tear or beard staining. When I got Zoey in February, she did have some staining, but it is completely gone now. I can't say definitely that staining is due to diet, but at least for some dogs there appears to be a correlation.


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## davetgabby

Suzi said:


> What is a example of a raw diet. Do you just buy it at the butchers ? Dave does your girl have staining from the caned food you use? And I cant remember what kind it is.


 No not really, she stopped the staining when we went to canned. Go Natural , by Petcurean .


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## Jplatthy

I switched Smokey two weeks ago to Taste of The Wild and was just noticing right before this thread got started that his tear stains that he has had since he was a puppy were barely noticeable....I didn't know that diet might be a possible cause of stains........


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Jplatthy said:


> I switched Smokey two weeks ago to Taste of The Wild and was just noticing right before this thread got started that his tear stains that he has had since he was a puppy were barely noticeable....I didn't know that diet might be a possible cause of stains........


Is Taste of the Wild, a kibble? Worth a try....thanks.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

davetgabby said:


> No not really, she stopped the staining when we went to canned. Go Natural , by Petcurean .


Dave do you mind telling me how much you feed Molly...is it all canned? How much does she weigh? Is she active, moderately active, or less active?


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## SOPHIES-MOM

I have read that for some dogs, it's the grain in food that causes stains. I feed Taste of the Wild Wetlands and it is grain free. I haven't needed Angel's Eyes since she's been eating it, and she really likes it.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

SOPHIES-MOM said:


> I have read that for some dogs, it's the grain in food that causes stains. I feed Taste of the Wild Wetlands and it is grain free. I haven't needed Angel's Eyes since she's been eating it, and she really likes it.


Is that one for mature dogs who are moderately active? I am not sure where I can find it, but will go on line and try it...at wits end with the eye staining..she has all her life been on the breeder's ProPlan which I do not like. Since June she has been on Blue Buffalo Basics..but the stains are there still...thanks Flynn


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

dbeech said:


> I am member of another forum and one of the members there has Cotons. In the past year, she transitioned her dog from premium kibble to an entirely raw diet. Look at the difference in staining. Hard to tell from the photos, but her owner says her coat is much nicer now also.


Does the owner use a water bottle instead of bowl...the difference is outstanding. Would love to know what raw diet she is on..


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## SOPHIES-MOM

Taste of the Wild Wetlands is an all stages food. You can buy it on Amazon.com.


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## Jplatthy

I'm feeding the kibble but they do have it wet in cans also....I tried the cans but it upset their tummies so I left them on the kibble.....It's been over 2 months now and they still eat enthusiastically and no tear stains and their poop is GREAT!


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## krandall

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Dave do you mind telling me how much you feed Molly...is it all canned? How much does she weigh? Is she active, moderately active, or less active?


Dave is oFf camping again for the next week!


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## HavaneseSoon

You can also buy "Taste of Wild" at feed stores.


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## The Laughing Magpie

I just finished reading this thread. I always feel apprehensive when raw diets are suggested as the best way to feed. The reason is because not everyone can manage a raw diet and because our dogs are so small if one makes a mistake it could be fatal. Having said that, my dogs are not on a raw diet and I do not have any issues with staining. My dog Yogi gets a lot of stuff in his eyes and I keep a saline solution on hand and clean around his eyes at least one time a day and in the spring and summer months several times, then I put cornstarch to keep it dry. My girl Misty who is white/gold does not have tear staining but I still clean one time a day, when I first got her she had terrible staining after the first week and she was found to have allergys. I feed Orijen and a two tablespoons of wet food and where I live it depends what is available in wet, so I change or give a meat I have cooked for dinner sans salt (I cook it separate). I also watch what additives are in the treats I feed, during training I use mostly home cooked chicken or liver.

My point is for those who cannot commit to a very careful and cautious program of raw feeding you can still control eye staining. I have nothing against raw feeders who follow a stringent set of rules in feeding raw and who are aware that they need to clean up any unfinished bones etc. in a timely manner, it is just not for me and I think that there are many others like myself and I just want them to know there are alternatives.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

I was amazed to find a local pet store with Taste of The Wild, same prices as on Amazon..so I have my cats on it and I will be putting the dogs on it next week. The cats love the taste and the dogs like the taste of the samples..lol...thank you so much. One of my friends who feeds raw told me it is the best if you don't feed homemade/raw, and that she gives it in emergencies, thinks it is a great food...thanks again!


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## TilliesMom

Awesome! so glad you found a local place that sells it!
that is what we had Tillie on before her skin breakout... if not for that, she would still be on it!!
Good luck!


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## dbeech

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Does the owner use a water bottle instead of bowl...the difference is outstanding. Would love to know what raw diet she is on..


Here is what she wrote about the diet she feeds her dogs:

"I live in Finland, so the products I use are mainly Finnish. We also have very strict standards what comes to meat, so feeding raw chicken or pork is pretty safe here, while it might not be so in somewhere else. But here's what I feed them:

The base food is ready made frozen food called NEU. It contains raw meat and organs, eggs, yogurt, cooked fruits and veggies and small amounts of brown rice and barley along with nettle and garlic.

I chose to feed this version with cooked veggies and some grain because Unikko has suffered some bad digestive problems and this version was more easy to her stomach than the grain-free diet with raw veggies only. Her stomach has gotten a lot better lately and nowdays she could eat pretty much anything, but I stick with this formula because that's what they both like the best. It has worked so well that I don't see any reason to remove that small amount of rice from their diet.

Those ready made meals come in chicken&turkey, beef&pork and salmon versions. My dogs get diarrhea from any salmon based thing, so I don't feed them that. To keep their diet varied enough, I add some other meat to one of their daily meal. I rotate between lamb, white fish (lake fish is always cooked because it might carry tapeworm and other icky stuff), reindeer and elk. I also feed them raw bones like marron bones, chicken wings and necks a couple of times a week. Raw bones take awesome care of their teeth, they work better than any dental stick or doggie toothpaste 

As a supply, they get omega oil blend, zinc, biotin and vitamin E daily. Unikko gets glucosamine&chondroitine supply as well, since she got a big knee surgery a couple of moths ago and I don't want her to get atrhritis.

That might sound utterly complicated way to feed dogs, but in real life it's not a biggie at all. I just buy those ready made foods and a couple of types of meat, take a proper amount from the freezer, let it defrost overnight and serve the food. Even my parents are able to do that without a problem when they are taking care of our dogs  If i forget to defrost the food, I just give them the meat and eggs (with a hint of eggshell for calcium supply) with a bit of cooked veggies and flax seeds or Ziwi Peak, which is the only commercial food I buy these days."


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

What is Tillie on now and how is her skin? Wow, Debbie, your friend has that raw diet down to a science!!! I think I will try the Taste of the Wild and see how it works. I am not too sure about the quality of our meats here in the USA now..since the cut backs in inspections, etc., and the turkey problem...jmho..


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## TilliesMom

Tillie had to go on homecooked because of how severe and far reaching her allergies are... her skin cleared up right away and the interesting part is that her skin was actually turning a dark color, big darkish spots were all over her skin, I just assumed it was normal as the spots melted together and her skin was kind of a brownish reddish color ... now with being on the homecooked for 2 months her skin is PINK again!? crazy... what ever was getting her was getting her BAD. glad I caught it early or she probably would have had long tern damage/problems. I will probably stay on homecooked for the long haul, but DO have a kibble that she CAN have in case of an emergency or something.
I buy Tillie's ground beef from Trader Joes, and get organic, no hormones added as "clean" as possible ... hopefully I am doing the best thing for her.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

I am so sorry do remember reading your previous post. I wonder, does this home made diet include Taurine? I am having a discussion on another list about Taurine, it is being put in cat foods, lots of high end dog foods don't have it anymore...ask your vet of course....just curious. I am so glad to hear she is getting so much better and I know you have the diet down to a science now..lol.. I do think it is best...


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## TilliesMom

haven't heard anything about Taurine...? I'll ask Sabine her opinion on it though!


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## dbeech

Hi Tammy, I am so glad to hear that Tillie is doing much better on her new diet. I would have never thought that food allergies could be that severe. You are certainly a good dog mom to put all the time and effort into her meal preparation. I know it can't be easy, but obviously the results are worth it.


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## lfung5

dbeech said:


> Unikko is primarily fed pre-packaged frozen raw food. This owner is in Europe, but what she feeds sounds similar to Nature's Variety which is available here. She supplements with raw chicken necks and eggs.


I didn't read this entire thread. Scudder still has much staining and I feed the Primal raw. I think it's from his saliva. I think the tear staining is from the food though. Are you feeding the Unikko?


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## TilliesMom

Thanks Debbie! I think any one of us would do what I am doing for Tillie IF nessecary!! I NEVER would have dreamed of doing homecooked, EVER. BuT I am and it isn't as scary, and expensive as I originally thought! Right now her sweet potatoes are baking and I'm getting ready to fry up her hamburger and add the pre-made veggies I made last week! prepping ahead surely makes this a LOT more tolerable!!
Although I DO wish she could have one of these pre-made frozen/raw things!! LOL ahhhhh well, the things we do for these kids ... errrrr....DOGS! LOL


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## dbeech

lfung5 said:


> I didn't read this entire thread. Scudder still has much staining and I feed the Primal raw. I think it's from his saliva. I think the tear staining is from the food though. Are you feeding the Unikko?


Sorry for the confusion, the owner is Finnish and Unikko is her dog's name. Her owner primarily feeds a European brand called Neu, but she also adds a lot of her own meats.

I think most staining is caused by red yeast. Controlling that is the key, but I don't know what the silver bullet is. I recently kept a friend's bichon for a couple of weeks. His owner was giving him Angel Eyes, but he still had terrible tear staining, along with beard staining. I feed my dogs Nature's Variety raw and so he ate that too. After two weeks, his staining was a lot better. His owner was really surprised when she saw him. In this case, I can only attribute it to the change in food, but I know that feeding raw doesn't help in all cases.


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## TilliesMom

Tillie had a bad overgrowth of the red yeast in her system when she had the blood work done in May. Both the holistic vet and Sabine wanted her on pro-biotics! So, she's on that for the long haul! it helps combat that yeast I think!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Think it takes a nutritionist to figure out all of this..lol...I know some of the dog foods contain probiotics and some don't...then I worry about overdoses..glad you have some guidance..I like these threads they really help alot. Thanks for keeping us updated.


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## TilliesMom

LOL, yup, that's where Sabine comes in.. the nutritionist! LOL 

as far as the probiotics, if I am correctly informed, they are NOT effective in dry kibble IF they are even added, because they heat the kibble up so high that it would kill the pro-biotics. Typically pro-biotics need to be refridgerated (although they do make some that aren't) and are added to the food at the time of the feeding. at least that is my understanding...


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## Jplatthy

Here are pics of Smokey's tear stains before I switched foods and about 2 1/2 months after.....wow what a difference!


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## Suzi

Jplatthy said:


> Here are pics of Smokey's tear stains before I switched foods and about 2 1/2 months after.....wow what a difference!


 Smokey looks great! What kind of food did you switch too? Sorry if you already said in another post


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## Jplatthy

Thanks

I switched him to Taste of the Wild....after seeing several posts on here about it I researched it along with a few other "5 star" foods and it was one of the few available in my area..........all 3 seem to realy like it


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## Jplatthy

LOL..I was telling him to "wait" because he was trying to go around the chair lol.....so he was looking at me like WHAT??? It was funny....and of course I was fighting the other two off because they thought he was getting something they were not.............


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## Suzi

Jplatthy said:


> Thanks
> 
> I switched him to Taste of the Wild....after seeing several posts on here about it I researched it along with a few other "5 star" foods and it was one of the few available in my area..........all 3 seem to really like it


 My sister feeds her Aussie Taste of the Wiled. I just looked at the ingredients for fun . Keep in mind I know nothing about nutrition. On the web page their is a A to Z list of ingredients under K is Kangaro Poor Kangaro


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## davetgabby

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Dave do you mind telling me how much you feed Molly...is it all canned? How much does she weigh? Is she active, moderately active, or less active?


Yeah Flynn .Molly is on 250 calories. about 80 percent canned, 20 percent human food. She weighs 12.5 lbs. I'd say moderately active.


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## davetgabby

TilliesMom said:


> LOL, yup, that's where Sabine comes in.. the nutritionist! LOL
> 
> as far as the probiotics, if I am correctly informed, they are NOT effective in dry kibble IF they are even added, because they heat the kibble up so high that it would kill the pro-biotics. Typically pro-biotics need to be refridgerated (although they do make some that aren't) and are added to the food at the time of the feeding. at least that is my understanding...


Right Tammy, I like these probiotics , that Sabine recommended,they don't need to be refrigerated. Pills that you just crush up and sprinkle on their food. Cheap , http://www.houseofnutrition.com/733739029133.html


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