# Is Crate Training Necesary?



## KimKline

I have a new puppy comimg next month. I got a pop up pen for downstairs 61" in diameter that will have his bed, food/water, pee pad tray and toys for when I can't have my eye on him. I had a baby play n pac from a previous use I can use upstairs that I could put him in at night until he is able to sleep in my bed when he can hold it all night. Last time I tried to use a crate for a puppy it was a disaster.


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## Cassandra

I only used a crate for Cassie to sleep next to my bed at night. When she needed to go potty during the night, she let me know by moving around in the crate. During the day, she was in confined areas near me all day and I took her outside for many, many potty breaks, but not crated. She has a small bathroom with doorway gated with bed, potty pad, water, small area for play, similar to expen set up that many people use, for times when she had to stay home when her humans had to go somewhere without her.

There are many people on forum who used crate training for potty training, but some of us only used crate for nighttime. However, I was home all day with her so I could potty train by close supervision. I would not have been able to have her in my bedroom at night without a crate, and it does seem that most Havanese like to be in same room with their people at night. I am not sure that a pop up playpen at night would have gotten her to settle down the way sleeping in a crate did, but maybe others have tried it. I had never used a crate before...all my other puppies over the years slept in mudroom type setups and cried for a few nights before accepting it; everything I read about living with a Havenese made me think that wouldn't work, so I tried the crate sleeping and was amazed at how easy it was and how willing she was to go in at bedtime.


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## Jojofergy

I also only use a crate in my bedroom at night sprocket goes in eagerly then I give him a treat and close the door he goes right to sleep and never hear anything from him until my alarm goes off 
I do not use a crate during the day he uses a playpen he has a bed and pee pads and water and plenty of room to move around 
I would not use the kind of play pen u have in the pic simply because sprocket would chew on it daily lol any mesh part or zipper part wouldn't be there for long we use something similar but much smaller for the car and he chews on it when he's bored so I plan to replace it with something solid when I get money in my budget 


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## KimKline

The pen in the pic is only for downstairs. Hopefully he won't chew on it. The material is pretty tight and thick. No exposed zippers. I wanted something big enough for his bed, food, potty, and toys and to protect my carpet. My husband is home most of the day to take him out lots. 

For upstairs sleeping, have a human baby play n pac that has netting on the side and is open on top. It's only about 25 x 35. Is it time big? I guess if he chews on that I can get a crate or will it be to confusing?


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## Cassandra

I did use a popup doggy playpen similar to yours for about 3-4 weeks when Cassie first arrived, which I used only when I was in the same room but needed to keep her very closely confined while I was doing something at the kitchen sink or wanted to do something else that didn't allow full attention on her. For example, we put her in it next to our kitchen table while we were eating...it was light and easy to move, but it was very clear that she would not be contained in it for long. She did start chewing it and trying to climb the mesh side and I am quite sure she would have done some serious damage fairly soon. We folded it away, but it was well worth it for those first couple weeks as we got adjusted to living in a gated house. They are relatively cheap compared to lots of other puppy gear, but I think they are designed really for only very young puppy stages...after that, you really have to get a solid expen (hard to move unfortunately) or depending on your home, build gates and enclosure areas...they really do need some kind of solid confinement strategy for a long time.


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## KimKline

I had originally thought about using a wire pen and putting a tarp underneath with a blanket on top so not to cold. Maybe I should rethink it.


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## Tux's Mom

I used a 3 x 6 ex-pen with pee pad, washable down pillow with waterproof slipcover and cotton case over the pillow right up against my bed. His last meal is at 5 PM. I would walk him outside (we live in a condo) every 45 minutes for the first few months, with the last walk of the day at 8:30 or 9 PM. Not everyone can stop to potty a puppy every 45 minutes, but it sure helped get him used to going outside. He had a water bottle installed on his pen but rarely used it because he slept all night long. 

He is a year old now and goes for about 4-5 hours without needing a break. The ex-pen is gone (just the other day) but the pillow and a wadded up cotton sheet are on the floor next to my bed in the same location as his former pen, only I place them closer to under the night stand because I noticed he likes going under there. When we get ready for bed, Tux trots in and plops down on his sheet, the stone floor or the pillow depending on his mood. He stays there all night until 6:30 AM. He shakes (rattles) his ears and then puts two paws on the edge of the bed by my head to let me know its time to go out. I used to let my previous Hav sleep in the bed with us, but I need undisturbed sleep, and Tux has only known sleeping on the floor next to the bed. Its all about what they are accustomed to. Whatever you do, be consistent, patient, and understanding of a teeny weeny little bladder.


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## davetgabby

yes here's why To Crate or Not To Crate? | Karen Pryor Clicker Training


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## KimKline

goldanimals said:


> I used a 3 x 6 ex-pen with pee pad, washable down pillow with waterproof slipcover and cotton case over the pillow right up against my bed.


I thought about putting a pee pad in the pen next to my bed but didn't know if that would be a good idea since I read somewhere, that he would never learn to hold it at night if he could get up and pee anytime he wanted to.


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## havanese

I got a similar pop-up pen from a friend as our "dog-warming" gift. I put it in the living room with a bed and tons of toys in it. Most of the time, I have the pen's door wide open. Ollie could go in and out whenever he wants if someone is in the living room with him. When I can't keep my eyes on him, I will put a treat on his bed and closed the zipper door. I only give him those treats in the pen, so he knows he must stay in there to have it. He will work on his treat (e.g. Kong with peanut butter) for 5 - 10 mins and then he would start chewing on his toys. Sometimes, he would whine as he wants to get out. But, he would settle within a minute if no one comes to rescue him. He would just nap in his bed until someone opens the door. 

I do believe in crate mainly for the potty training. I do not have pee pad anywhere inside the house. I will put him in the crate when I need to leave the house for 2 - 3 hours. I would tire him out from play / walk and make sure he has an empty bladder before I put him in there. He sleeps in the crate at night in my room. It's been perfect!


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## Molly120213

If you decide not to use a potty area at night the only problem I see is that the pack n play could be too large at first. If the crate is too big the dog can potty in there without laying in it. I used a wire crate with a divider at first. When I tried it without the divider my dog had accidents in there. That stopped once I had the crate properly sized.


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## KimKline

I know the breeder is teaching the puppies to use the pee pad tray. I could always put something like a box in the play n pac to make it smaller or I could just get a crate. Decisions! I already had the play n pac from a previous use. The training site linked above said to not just plop the puppy in for a night at the beginning so what did you all do the first night at home?

Thanks for all the responses!


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## krandall

I think all dogs should be taught to value their crate as a "den". Dogs who are never crated have a very rough time if they need to be hospitalized, and crates are the safest way of transporting dogs in the car. They are also invaluable if you are going to travel with your dog. You can't leave them loose in a hotel room, but if your dog will crate quietly, you can go out to dinner or to the hotel restaurant for breakfast.

I have not used crating for potty training for any of mine. They ere all taught to use a litter box by their breeders, and were totally reliable using the litter box in an ex-pen.

Your little cloth pen may be fine for the first few weeks, but it is not a safe place for the puppy to tay when it is not being closely supervised. WAY to easy for the puppy to rip its way out, and I know a number of puppies who have tipped them over. Get as solid ex-pen, either a wire one like Midwest, or a plastic one like Iris. There are also a couple of very beautiful but much more expensive brands, but these two are both reasonable enough in price that you can afford several if you want. (we have 4 midwest ex-pens that we still use in various configurations) You can get an inexpensive remnant of vinyl flooring at Home Depot or Lowes to put under the pen and protect your rug.

But the bottom line is that you do your puppy a disservice gif you don't teach him to love his crate as a safe den area.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

I definitely vote yes to crate training. I have found that both dogs I have crate trained use the crate for naps. Plus you can crate them if you need to leave them alone and then you know they are safe and that your house is safe! I crate Willow at night or if we need to leave her to run errands. Sometimes we have a contractor come inside to fix something and I can put Willow in the crate so she doesn't bother the worker. Had to do that just recently for a plumber. She is just fine with it.


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## Cassandra

One thing useful to remember is that people use the term "crate training" for a range of different things. It does seem that it is currently used most frequently for an approach to potty training based upon the notion that puppy will not want to soil its bed and keeping the size small is important..thus for people using crates for potty training, you will often see references to using a divider to keep initial area small, etc. Others are referring to crate training less for potty training and more for establishing a den like safe environment, a sleeping arrangement, a familiar travel experience. I think it is useful to keep these difference in mind in reading suggestions. Some of us didn't use crates for potty training per se, although it might have had a helpful impact at night.

I can't say Cassie "loves" her crate although she goes in without a fuss upon request! She will, however, when stressed go into one of the rooms with her donut beds and curl up.

Re how to handle the first night, my breeder gave me one tip that was priceless. Do everything you need to do before putting the puppy in its crate..i.e. brush your teeth, check your email etc, then put puppy in and turn off the lights. She told me to gently rap the top if she started fussing and say settle down..I did reach down a couple times to let her smell my finger tips. It took only two or three nights for her to stop fussing. The first months were full of two am potty trips (like a baby) but those gradually ended too. The later I went to bed and did the last potty trip, the longer she slept until am.


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## Tom King

We have never used a crate for potty training-only to sleep in at night.

That expen might be too large to start with. We like to start with a 2x4 for the first couple of days in a new home, but can then be enlarged gradually. The 2x4 is smaller than the puppy would have used here, before it left, but it makes it easier for the puppy to have success in a totally new environment. It also makes it really easy to teach the puppy to go on command.

Of course, the pup can be let out to play when supervised, and to burn off energy, but must be watched All the time while out, and have a potty surface available without having to solve a puzzle to get to it.


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## krandall

Tom King said:


> We have never used a crate for potty training-only to sleep in at night.
> 
> That expen might be too large to start with. We like to start with a 2x4 for the first couple of days in a new home, but can then be enlarged gradually. The 2x4 is smaller than the puppy would have used here, before it left, but it makes it easier for the puppy to have success in a totally new environment. It also makes it really easy to teach the puppy to go on command.
> 
> Of course, the pup can be let out to play when supervised, and to burn off energy, but must be watched All the time while out, and have a potty surface available without having to solve a puzzle to get to it.


Both of my Starborn pups were totally solid in a full-sized ex-pen as soon as they came home (due to Tom's and Pam's excellent training!  ) I would have closed it down to a smaller size at the first sign of trouble, but it never happened. Kodi had accidents elsewhere, because _I_ had never raised a puppy before and made mistakes (too much freedom, too little supervision, too early!) But with Pam's help, I got on top of it, and had no more problems. Pixel was a dream puppy when it comes to potty training... She practically trained herself. I don't think she ever had accidents, but I was also much more careful about introducing her to larger areas and giving her more freedom.

Panda, who was also well started on potty training by her breeder, using Pam and Tom's method, needed a short period of "decreased space" following a UTI. (Which made her decided that it was all the fault of the litter box!!!) A short stint in "solitary" and we were able to increase the size of her pen again.  This Pen has bigger panels than the Midwest pens... They are 30" in length rather than 24", so we needed to do just one section per side to make it small enough that she couldn't make a mistake. I think we left it like this for less than a week before we could give her the whole ex-pen area back for unsupervised times.


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## Melissa Brill

*crates*



Cassandra said:


> One thing useful to remember is that people use the term "crate training" for a range of different things. It does seem that it is currently used most frequently for an approach to potty training based upon the notion that puppy will not want to soil its bed and keeping the size small is important..thus for people using crates for potty training, you will often see references to using a divider to keep initial area small, etc. Others are referring to crate training less for potty training and more for establishing a den like safe environment, a sleeping arrangement, a familiar travel experience. I think it is useful to keep these difference in mind in reading suggestions. Some of us didn't use crates for potty training per se, although it might have had a helpful impact at night.
> 
> I can't say Cassie "loves" her crate although she goes in without a fuss upon request! She will, however, when stressed go into one of the rooms with her donut beds and curl up.


Totally agree. I've never used a crate for potty training as described. For us, the crate is the den/ safe space and is only used in a potty training sense at night (somehow Perry can hold it all night in the crate but only a couple of hours when in more open space). And even then, once I'm sure he's solid with the potty training we may stay with the crate at night because he seems more settled in it than out in a more open space (plus trying to fit his bed beside our bed and under the mosquito net and then what to do when he leaves it to wander around and can't get back under the mosquito net or ends up damaging the net trying to get to his bed, etc. seems like a bit too much hassle).

As to whether he loves his crate - nope. He has gone in it once or twice on his own (usually right before I would have put him to bed), but when it comes to going into his crate willingly - if it's what he sees as a 'usual' time (weekdays 7am when I am leaving for work or bed time) he goes in on his own and no barking, etc. When it's an 'unusual' time - Saturday morning when I'm going grocery shopping or another time that's off schedule - I have to put him in, and the barking will probably start before I get to the car  even if all of the rest of the routine (his Kong and toys in the crate, no fuss, etc.) is exactly the same


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## KimKline

I did send back the pop-up pen and ordered a Midwest wire pen that makes a 4 x 4 pen. The breeder has the puppies in a little bit bigger area than that right now and she has the potty pad in the tray in their pen. When I visited at 7 weeks, Arlo had already used the potty tray so the breeder is going to work with him on using it. I am still thinking of getting a crate for sleeping and putting it next to my bed on my night stand. I was going to use the baby pack and play but some said since it was open at the top, he might not feel secure even if I made it smaller by putting a box in it. I called Home Depot to see about getting a piece of linoleum to put under the expen and they wanted about $75 for a piece they had. I called another flooring place and he said they had some remnants they would cut and sell me for $1 sq. ft, so about $25. When I showed up to get a piece and they found out it was for my puppy, they just gave it to me for free. I also got a couple of whelping pads to put over the linoleum that I can wash, and inside the expen, I'll put his potty tray, food and water, toys, and a bed. Hopefully that will work for him when we don't have our eyes on him. I also ordered the sunscreen top for the expen, because I saw videos and heard some owners had problems with their dogs climbing out of the expen. I never expected to see that. Some guy even said he had a 36 inch tall pen that he dog crawled out of.


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## krandall

KimKline said:


> I did send back the pop-up pen and ordered a Midwest wire pen that makes a 4 x 4 pen. The breeder has the puppies in a little bit bigger area than that right now and she has the potty pad in the tray in their pen. When I visited at 7 weeks, Arlo had already used the potty tray so the breeder is going to work with him on using it. I am still thinking of getting a crate for sleeping and putting it next to my bed on my night stand. I was going to use the baby pack and play but some said since it was open at the top, he might not feel secure even if I made it smaller by putting a box in it. I called Home Depot to see about getting a piece of linoleum to put under the expen and they wanted about $75 for a piece they had. I called another flooring place and he said they had some remnants they would cut and sell me for $1 sq. ft, so about $25. When I showed up to get a piece and they found out it was for my puppy, they just gave it to me for free. I also got a couple of whelping pads to put over the linoleum that I can wash, and inside the expen, I'll put his potty tray, food and water, toys, and a bed. Hopefully that will work for him when we don't have our eyes on him. I also ordered the sunscreen top for the expen, because I saw videos and heard some owners had problems with their dogs climbing out of the expen. I never expected to see that. Some guy even said he had a 36 inch tall pen that he dog crawled out of.


I think you'll be happier with the Midwest pen, and great score on the vinyl flooring! 

I would NOT put whelping pads on it, however, the whole point is that you want your puppy to be able to differentiate between potty and "not potty" (AKA "the floor"  ) You don't want anything on the floor that he may think makes a comfy potty spot. He needs to save that for his pee pad tray! In the beginning, depending on how well potty trained he is when he arrives, you may need to close the pen down to a smaller space (one section by 2 section usually works well) with his bed in one end, and the potty tray on the other end, with very little open floor between. When he is successful with that arrangement, you can slowly increase his area, until he is successful with the pen opened fully.

The climbing thing is funny. Some puppies are very determined climbers, others have no interest in climbing at all. All of mine, as adults, could easily just JUMP out of my 24" ex-pens. none of them do, however. That is their "home base", and they respect it. My opinion on taller ex-pens for our small breed dogs is that VERY few puppies actually "jump" the pen. They climb the inside and tumble down from the top. If they can climb a 24" expen, they can scale a 48" expen, and some ARE that determined. They stand a much greater chance of serious injury falling off the edge of a 48" expen than they do the 24". So I'd stick with the 24" size, (they re easier for humans to step over!  ) and just be aware that IF you have a climber, you may need to cover it. 

I'm a fan of crates in the bed room. Kodi slept downstairs, in his expen with crate attached for his first two years, because my husband was still in his "dog hater" phase. Now they ALL sleep in our room, in their own crates. I know that many people choose to let their dogs sleep in bed with them, and I actually sometimes let mine sleep with me if Dave is away, or if we're in a hotel room at a dog show. But I would never let a puppy sleep on the bed, even if I thought my expensive mattress wasn't in danger. There is just TOO much trouble a puppy can get into while you're asleep. (remember, supervision and confinement are your puppy-training friends!!!) Even if they don't go looking for trouble, it is too easy to roll over on a small puppy, and even a fall off the bed can permanently injure the soft developing bones of a young puppy. They are safer in a crate, and feel comfortable right near you. Both of our breeders started our puppies in crates at night shortly before they went home, and we didn't have a peep out of any of them, even on the first night. We did have a few middle of the night "potty calls" in the first week or two, but even those went away very quickly.

This was Kodi's "bed room" for his first couple of years. It did have the advantage of him being completely independent for early morning potty trips... He never needed us to get up with him, because he just had to toddle over to his litter box when nature called! Oh, that was a 30" expen, and the only one I ever bought. (and wished I hadn't!) I'm tall, and it was a chore to step over to clean up spilled litter or clean the litter box.


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## Tom King

Our dogs started sleeping in crates when we ran out of corners on the bed. That's been a while back.


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## ShamaMama

krandall said:


> I'm a fan of crates in the bed room. Kodi slept downstairs, in his expen with crate attached for his first two years, because my husband was still in his "dog hater" phase. Now they ALL sleep in our room, in their own crates.


You make me laugh, Karen! I grew up with dogs (six during my childhood - a minpin, a visla, two American water spaniels, a doberman, and another minpin), and they were never allowed upstairs, let alone in our bedrooms. My DH is allergic to dogs, which is how we found the Havanese. We like our overnight arrangement. Shama is in her 2x6 Pupperton ex pen (26 inches high - containing crate, water, food - twice a day, and fluffy bed) tucked under the island in our kitchen/dining room, and we are down the hall in our bedroom with the door open to hear her. When we travel, we take the entire ex pen. We agreed before getting Shama that we would never take her in an airplane. Our parents and breeder and other friends are happy to take her and her ex pen when we go on bigger trips.

There are lots of acceptable sleeping arrangements for our little darlings!


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## krandall

Tom King said:


> Our dogs started sleeping in crates when we ran out of corners on the bed. That's been a while back.


:laugh:


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## krandall

ShamaMama said:


> There are lots of acceptable sleeping arrangements for our little darlings!


Yup! It's all what they get used to!


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## Nepa

Leo slept in a crate in our bedroom until he was 16 weeks old. We had an expen on the first floor(plastic one used for toddlers) during the day. We moved his crate into the 1st floor expen when he was about 16 weeks old. We would take the crate out of the expen during the day for more room. After Leo jumped out of the expen, we replaced it with an Iris expen and just keep the crate in at all times. We use the expen when we go to work and at bedtime. Leo sleeps in the crate, with the door open, since the expen door is closed. The little bugger now runs into the crate when we try to put drops in his ears because he knows it's hard for us to get to him!


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## Melissa Brill

*airplanes*



ShamaMama said:


> When we travel, we take the entire ex pen. We agreed before getting Shama that we would never take her in an airplane. Our parents and breeder and other friends are happy to take her and her ex pen when we go on bigger trips.
> 
> There are lots of acceptable sleeping arrangements for our little darlings!


I don't remember how big Shama is, but if you can take her into the cabin with you, it's not too bad/ stressful. That was one of the main reasons we decided on the Havanese - there were many breeds that fit our criteria of not shedding much and small with the right personality, but the Havanese were the best fit for size to be able to travel in the airplane cabin with us. I spent many years traveling with my Dalmatian who had to travel in cargo with no problems, but it stressed me out and made planning travel more difficult (is it too hot out, too cold, here, at our destination, etc), so this decision was vital for us.

Perry did well on his first flight (second and third ones will be in May/ June) - he settles into his travel bag and chills - even with being in it for 20+ hours (I do sneak him into the bathrooms in the airports if there's no dog relief area and in the plane so he can get out for a few minutes). If it does become too stressful for him then I'll have to find a puppy sitter for when we travel to the US (except when we're relocating), but so far so good. Right now our travel to/ from the US is about 29 hours to the US (1 hour in the car to the airport, 2 hours in the airport pre-flight, 2 hour flight, 2 hour layover, 17 hour flight, 5 hour car drive - with chances to get out of the travel bag and stretch his legs in between parts of that) and 21 hours back (2-3 hours at the airport pre-flight, 13 hour flight, 2 hour layover, 2 hour flight, 1 hour drive home - not counting the 5 hour drive to the airport the day before).


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## KimKline

I plan to have Arlo sleep in our bed once he is a little bigger so I won't roll on him and he is not going potty on the bed. We have always purchased king size beds so there is room for the people and furry ones. We have had Rhodesian ridgebacks and I had a shih Tzu. One big happy family. LOL Our Rhodesian we have now is too old to jump on the bed anymore. We have a tall mattress, so she sleeps next to the bed.

As far as sleeping crate, do you all think plastic or wire is the way to go? If wire, should I cover it with a blanket except for maybe the front door? It's been 16 years since I had a puppy. Can you tell? I was thinking of putting it on my nightstand next to my bed.


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## krandall

KimKline said:


> I plan to have Arlo sleep in our bed once he is a little bigger so I won't roll on him and he is not going potty on the bed. We have always purchased king size beds so there is room for the people and furry ones. We have had Rhodesian ridgebacks and I had a shih Tzu. One big happy family. LOL Our Rhodesian we have now is too old to jump on the bed anymore. We have a tall mattress, so she sleeps next to the bed.
> 
> As far as sleeping crate, do you all think plastic or wire is the way to go? If wire, should I cover it with a blanket except for maybe the front door? It's been 16 years since I had a puppy. Can you tell? I was thinking of putting it on my nightstand next to my bed.


If you use wire, for sure cover it except for the front. The material doesn't matter much, unless it gets hot and you don't have AC. In that case, wire would definitely be better. We have plastic crates in our bed room for them, and wire crates (with blankets over them) in our RV, because they were easier to strap together and secure to the floor. They seem equally happy in both.


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## ShamaMama

Melissa Brill said:


> I don't remember how big Shama is, but if you can take her into the cabin with you, it's not too bad/ stressful.


Thanks, Melissa. That's good to know! (She's the runt of a runt and weighs eight pounds.)


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## myownhavanese

krandall said:


> I think you'll be happier with the Midwest pen, and great score on the vinyl flooring!
> 
> I would NOT put whelping pads on it, however, the whole point is that you want your puppy to be able to differentiate between potty and "not potty" (AKA "the floor"  ) You don't want anything on the floor that he may think makes a comfy potty spot. He needs to save that for his pee pad tray! In the beginning, depending on how well potty trained he is when he arrives, you may need to close the pen down to a smaller space (one section by 2 section usually works well) with his bed in one end, and the potty tray on the other end, with very little open floor between. When he is successful with that arrangement, you can slowly increase his area, until he is successful with the pen opened fully.
> 
> The climbing thing is funny. Some puppies are very determined climbers, others have no interest in climbing at all. All of mine, as adults, could easily just JUMP out of my 24" ex-pens. none of them do, however. That is their "home base", and they respect it. My opinion on taller ex-pens for our small breed dogs is that VERY few puppies actually "jump" the pen. They climb the inside and tumble down from the top. If they can climb a 24" expen, they can scale a 48" expen, and some ARE that determined. They stand a much greater chance of serious injury falling off the edge of a 48" expen than they do the 24". So I'd stick with the 24" size, (they re easier for humans to step over!  ) and just be aware that IF you have a climber, you may need to cover it.
> 
> I'm a fan of crates in the bed room. Kodi slept downstairs, in his expen with crate attached for his first two years, because my husband was still in his "dog hater" phase. Now they ALL sleep in our room, in their own crates. I know that many people choose to let their dogs sleep in bed with them, and I actually sometimes let mine sleep with me if Dave is away, or if we're in a hotel room at a dog show. But I would never let a puppy sleep on the bed, even if I thought my expensive mattress wasn't in danger. There is just TOO much trouble a puppy can get into while you're asleep. (remember, supervision and confinement are your puppy-training friends!!!) Even if they don't go looking for trouble, it is too easy to roll over on a small puppy, and even a fall off the bed can permanently injure the soft developing bones of a young puppy. They are safer in a crate, and feel comfortable right near you. Both of our breeders started our puppies in crates at night shortly before they went home, and we didn't have a peep out of any of them, even on the first night. We did have a few middle of the night "potty calls" in the first week or two, but even those went away very quickly.
> 
> This was Kodi's "bed room" for his first couple of years. It did have the advantage of him being completely independent for early morning potty trips... He never needed us to get up with him, because he just had to toddle over to his litter box when nature called! Oh, that was a 30" expen, and the only one I ever bought. (and wished I hadn't!) I'm tall, and it was a chore to step over to clean up spilled litter or clean the litter box.


I just purchased whelping pads for under the expen and the crate in the bedroom, to save my carpets from accidental pottying. I bought a ugodog for the expen, and just wanted to have something to save my carpets while he's in there. Do you suggest something different?


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## krandall

myownhavanese said:


> I just purchased whelping pads for under the expen and the crate in the bedroom, to save my carpets from accidental pottying. I bought a ugodog for the expen, and just wanted to have something to save my carpets while he's in there. Do you suggest something different?


Yes, if he's going to be in an expen in the bedroom, either another piece of vinyl flooring (best) or a cheaper sheet of Marine vinyl. (they use it for cushions on boats, and you can get it at Joann Fabric among other places) That's what was on the floor in the photo of Kodi's set-up. The problem is that a determined puppy (like Kodi) can snag the marine vinyl with their needle-like puppy teeth and pull it up. We changed to the vinyl floor remnant for that reason! :grin2: ceapest of all, and least durable, though easily replaceable, is a heavy weight vinyl shower curtain. I wouldn't have aything cloth-like or soft other than the puppy's bed in there. It's just asking for potty accidents.


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## Melissa Brill

*in cabin*



ShamaMama said:


> Thanks, Melissa. That's good to know! (She's the runt of a runt and weighs eight pounds.)


Perry weighs 10 pounds and he fits perfectly, with room, in a sherpa bag or this one that I got for traveling in cabin (it has a front section that opens up, so if you have extra space you can zip it open and give them a little more room.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B019K6QD32/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Melissa Brill

*wire or plastic*



KimKline said:


> As far as sleeping crate, do you all think plastic or wire is the way to go? If wire, should I cover it with a blanket except for maybe the front door? It's been 16 years since I had a puppy. Can you tell? I was thinking of putting it on my nightstand next to my bed.


I personally prefer plastic because I've seen anxious dogs able to hurt themselves more on a metal wire crate than they would on plastic (but if you don't have anxiety in the crate then that's not a problem). However, one of the reasons I prefer plastic is because they are usually airline approved so you can use the same day to day crate for travel but that probably doesn't apply to a Havanese because they're generally small enough to travel in cabin with you (in which case you'd have a different carrier anyway).


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## KimKline

I ended up getting a 24" plastic crate that has a divider in it to make smaller until he grows a little bigger. Then you can keep moving the divider. I can also take the door off without taking it apart if I want to put the crate in the expen during the day.


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