# Help..need some tips soon



## skkydreemer (Feb 4, 2012)

As some of you may know, Corky found me after he was left abandoned. He is estimated to be about a year old. The first week he was here he only had a couple of accidents. He has been with me now for about a 1 1/2 months now. I work during the day and my husband works nights and is mainly sleeping during the day. I feel horrible having to leave Corky in a crate all day when I'm gone, but at this point I don't know what else to do. He will not give us any indication when he has to go out to potty. He goes out with our other dog and will stay out for around 20 minutes, come in and hike his leg and pee all over my carpet. My husband has about had it with him, but I can't bear the thought of finding Corky another home. I love this little guy to death. Tonight he looked right at me, and lifted his leg and peed all over my living room carpet. I have tried taking him out after play time, letting him out after he eats, and often at random times as a reminder in hopes that he will get it. He regularly poops on a throw rug that we have in the living room as well. I have thought of getting puppy pads and gradually moving them closer to the slider door and eventually moving them on the deck right outside the door. Our biggest thing is the cleanliness of our home. Working business hours really limits my ability to be able to work with Corky as much as I would like to. I really need some tips on what to do. I have had friends suggest limiting his food/water intake to a schedule. The problem with that is our older adult dog. She is 12 years old and has never had limitations put on her and we can't take the food and water away from her. Help...


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

It sounds as if you should treat him as if he is a little puppy. Start all over with the basics. You probably will have to restrict his area to an ex-pen for a while. I bet when he walked up to you and gave you the stare, that was his signal. 

There are lots of threads dealing with older rescues and their problems.


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

Go to Turid Rugas web page to Q&A section. Ther you can find a lot of answers about peeing in the house. On thing I learned from her is that long confinement in smal space (crate) is making dog nervous and overstressed (who wouldn't be). She says that dog that has whole house on his disposal when alone is a relaxed and happy dog. Corky might be miserable, unhappy and stressed in that crate. Try to find space in your house with tiles on the floor (kitchen of washing room). Put his bed, toys and bowls there. Make it really comfy and cosy. Baby gate him from the rest of the house, put radio or CD on. He will be much calmer and relaxed, able to move around and stretch his legs. When you notice that he is not peeing or pooing there, you can give him more space. 
Roki is two, and still has some accidents (once a month), but never when alone in the house. I just stopped making problems about his accidents and very soon I realized that the number decreased. I never crate him in the house. He can reach his crate all the time, but he is not very fond of it. He has found some cosy places in the house where he goes when he wants to be alone. I also found very nice colapsible eskimo tent for dogs and I am going to buy it because he adore it during pet shop visit. I use crate only in the car (for longer trips) and during dog shows. For me crate is transport equipment! 
I also think that Corky went throuh a lot of stress and that he needs time to sweat that stress and fear out and relax. Your vet might even suggest some natural calming aid or better - homeopatic stuff.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree somewhat with Rokipiki. While I think crates are GREAT if used properly, and if the dog has been properly introduced to them, I would never leave my dog confined to a crate for extended periods on a regular basis. I think the longest Kodi has ever been confined to his crate/ex-pen combination has been 6 hours... and that was ONCE. Otherwise, his ex-pen set-up is for bed time or short-term confinement, and mostly because he has shown that he prefers it. 

But that puts you in a poor position for house training a dog. House training takes a LOT of time and attention. It doesn't happen by itself. And, unlike Rokipiki, I would NOT be happy with a dog who had accidents on a regular basis in my house. Even monthly is WAY too often IMO. 

Is there a way that you could do what Rokipiki suggests, by setting him up in a room with a floor that is easy to clean, and then have someone come in a couple of times a day to take him for a short potty walk and some company, if your husband can't do this? Havanese are companion dogs, and to some extent, even if you give him more room, if he is alone for extended periods on a regular basis, that, alone, can be very stressful.

If he gets along well with other dogs, another possibility that works well for some folks who work full time is to put him in day care a few days a week. Then he will have people watching over him, taking him out regularly, (which hopefully will prevent accidents) and keeping him company while you work.


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## waybrook (Sep 13, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> It sounds as if you should treat him as if he is a little puppy. Start all over with the basics. You probably will have to restrict his area to an ex-pen for a while. I bet when he walked up to you and gave you the stare, that was his signal.
> 
> There are lots of threads dealing with older rescues and their problems.


I agree - that is Panda's signal to go out. She doesn't go to the door she just finds me and then stares at me until I take her out. It can be frustrating, but she's finally trained me to realize what she's after..

I also agree that starting from scratch is the best way to go, but that perhaps crating him all day is making him nervous. If you can either put him on tile or an ex-pen configuration and then have someone let him out may help. We did intensive training before we finally had Panda broke. It was a strict time llimit of time outside the pen (and then only after she had just pottied outside). It took time and patience but it has been worth it.

Also, you don't know the situation he came from and maybe peeing indoors was acceptable - or they had him trained to a potty pad, which is why he's taken to the throw rug. Its possible that he thinks he's doing the right thing....


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

waybrook said:


> I agree - that is Panda's signal to go out. She doesn't go to the door she just finds me and then stares at me until I take her out. It can be frustrating, but she's finally trained me to realize what she's after..


This was true for Kodi too. Peeing wasn't a problem, because he was fine with peeing in his litter box (and did so consistently) so it didn't really matter if he went outside. But he much preferred pooping outdoors, and if there was ANY pee in the litter box, he would sometimes choose another spot if he couldn't get our attention. So it mostly became a situation where we knew his poop schedule and took him out at the right times. He didn't have accidents, but it wasn't because he "told" us when he needed to go out, it was because WE knew his schedule. Like Panda, he WOULD sometimes come and look at us, but if you aren't paying excellent attention at just the right time, this is SO easy to miss. It wasn't until he was almost 2 that he first began barking to ask to go out. I was stunned when _I_ first figured out that that early evening barking was that he wanted to go out!:jaw: Fortunately, he is reliable and insistent about getting our attention now. (but he'll be 3 at the end of April) If he barks and that doesn't work, he'll come and start pawing at our leg.


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## skkydreemer (Feb 4, 2012)

I appreciate all of the advise. I love Corky to death and getting rid of him is just not an option. I can not change my work schedule either. We really have no choice at this point but to have him in the crate until my husband wakes up in the early afternoon. He normally sleeps with me and my bedroom door is shut, which seems to help him as far as a night time potty accident. I have wondered if he gets the throw rug confused with a puppy pad because he seems to prefer it over the carpet.


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## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

I am very sympathetic to the work issues -- you can make this work!

But I have to say that, to solve the problem, you might want to consider a three or four day weekend, so that you can implement whichever plan you choose and provide some consistency and direction. If you can't do that, consider a dog walker or someone to visit.

Baxter took awhile to train (many of them do), and when we had a serious back slide, I took a couple of days and started over. Things have been a lot better since then -- indeed, I think he's trained, unlike the dachshund, who will not get her little bottom wet when it's raining!


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

krandall said:


> I agree somewhat with Rokipiki. While I think crates are GREAT if used properly, and if the dog has been properly introduced to them, I would never leave my dog confined to a crate for extended periods on a regular basis. I think the longest Kodi has ever been confined to his crate/ex-pen combination has been 6 hours... and that was ONCE. Otherwise, his ex-pen set-up is for bed time or short-term confinement, and mostly because he has shown that he prefers it.
> 
> But that puts you in a poor position for house training a dog. House training takes a LOT of time and attention. It doesn't happen by itself. And, unlike Rokipiki, I would NOT be happy with a dog who had accidents on a regular basis in my house. Even monthly is WAY too often IMO.
> 
> ...


I did everything - trained him, retrained him for couple of times, had bladder and kidney checked! We have personal trainer who says I did everything correct and suggested me not to pay much attention. Roki spent couple of weeks in his doggie kindergarten and he said he is well trainned and good temperament! And still there are accidents. Rare! What would you do if everthing fails and you have like one accident on rubish bin in the kitchen (only during the night) once a month or even less now? Would you give Kodi away to the shelter because of occasional pee? I am not happy with those accidents as well, but I am not going to give up on him or torture him with another round of potty training because he is 99,8 percent relialble for pee and 100 percent reliable for poo. I simply accepted that from time to time there will be a inch of dried pee puddle next to the rubish bin when I get up in the morning. No big deal! I accepted that Roki is not perfect dog and i am not going to force him to be perfect. Rather then retraining him again, I am going to teach him new tricks, do more obedience and some agility. He enjoys that!

Marina&Roki


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Of course I wouldn't send Kodi to a shelter. (even if my contract with his breeder allowed it ) But I WOULD continue to work on the problem. Roki is still young, and just because he is still having accidents NOW doesn't mean he always has to. 

Loving your dog and being totally committed to him is different than giving up on a training problem. And while I love my dog to pieces, I also want a hygienic house. So if I had a dog I loved who COULDN'T be reliably potty trained under the conditions I had set up for him, I would try to manage the situation differently. I was trying to AGREE with you, that I thought that the OP could manage her dog's (hopefully temporary) lack of house training by confining him on an easy to clean floor (rather than a crate all day) and getting someone to come in and walk him periodically. How you leapt from there to the suggestion that I would give a loved pet up because of a house training glitch is beyond me.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I don't understand why having him in a crate is the only answer? everyone has a kitchen or a bathroom. I wouldn't even allow him to be in your rug area . I had a small apartment while mine were younger. The dinning room was tile as was the kitchen. I limited them to mostly the dinning area. I used my x pin as dividers and gate. I had my computer and a chair in the same area. (I took the dinning room table out and basically turned it into a small family room. If you don't have a area that has a hard surface floor you can buy vinyl and put it on the rug. I also like to buy large door mat rugs and I turn then upside down the backing is somewhat washable I put the potty pads on that in case they miss. The vinyl is sort of a pain because it slides around. It doesn't look pretty but I'm happy they have a nice hang out for while I'm gone. I have that set up now at my sisters house I'll try to find some pictures.
I guess I sleep in the dog pinound:


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## skkydreemer (Feb 4, 2012)

Suzi,

I really like the way you have the area set up. We have an open floor plan and there is really no way to divide our house up. Our bathroom is too close to our bedroom and he barks if he is in there, which wakes my husband. He is not in there for more than 4 hours while my husband is sleeping. This actually seems to be working very well for him. The last couple of days we have had NO accidents! He sleeps with me and then when my husband gets home late at night he lets him out. Then I let him out when I get up early in the morning. He goes in his crate when I leave for work and then as soon as my husband gets up he lets him out. One thing that I wonder about is if the rug was the trigger. I took the rug out of the front room. I am not some evil person because he is in a crate for a couple of hours a day. We make it his safe place for comfort. He has a bed in there, toys, and he loves it when I put a blanket over it. He is doing much better, I just hope it lasts. One thing I have picked up on from this forum and site, is that he isn't a good communicator. I am picking up on his subtle way of looking at me that he needs to go out. As soon as I walk toward the door he is following me and goes right out. Once he is completely house broken I see no reason to have him in the crate.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Welcome to the forum! It sounds like things are going a lot better now. So, your husband isn't sleeping all day? It seems that he isn't in the crate too long then.

One method we use is hanging bells on the door handle. If you take their paw and ring the bell and then take him out to potty he will get the idea really quickly. That works well for us and you can't really miss hearing those bells ring!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Nobody thought you were an evil person!!! You rescued this little guy!

And if he's only in the crate for 4 hours at a time, there should be no problem with that at all. It does kind of sound like he was confused about the rug. I'm so glad to hear that things are going better!!!



skkydreemer said:


> Suzi,
> 
> I really like the way you have the area set up. We have an open floor plan and there is really no way to divide our house up. Our bathroom is too close to our bedroom and he barks if he is in there, which wakes my husband. He is not in there for more than 4 hours while my husband is sleeping. This actually seems to be working very well for him. The last couple of days we have had NO accidents! He sleeps with me and then when my husband gets home late at night he lets him out. Then I let him out when I get up early in the morning. He goes in his crate when I leave for work and then as soon as my husband gets up he lets him out. One thing that I wonder about is if the rug was the trigger. I took the rug out of the front room. I am not some evil person because he is in a crate for a couple of hours a day. We make it his safe place for comfort. He has a bed in there, toys, and he loves it when I put a blanket over it. He is doing much better, I just hope it lasts. One thing I have picked up on from this forum and site, is that he isn't a good communicator. I am picking up on his subtle way of looking at me that he needs to go out. As soon as I walk toward the door he is following me and goes right out. Once he is completely house broken I see no reason to have him in the crate.


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## curly_DC (Nov 27, 2011)

The one thing that I read on this thread that confused me is the size of the xpen area or the dog having free run of the entire living area when he's alone and feeling less stress b/c of it. 

When I leave Sergio for up to 8 hours while I'm at work, he is much less stressed when I leave his crate (door open) in a smaller x-pen area, with food, water, blanket, toys, and potty pads. He also likes to play with a fuzzy pair of my socks, and I'll leave one of my slept in tee shirts.

When I have to run an errand and I'm just out for around an hour or less, I let him have free run of the apartment, and he doesn't have any accidents. However, I don't think he's less stressed than he is in his crate or a smaller xpen area. 

He does seem less stressed though when I leave and he goes in his crate, and I exit without him actually seeing me open and close the door. 

Also, I know that some Hav owners feel that Havs should only be with stay at home parents or retired people, but I don't feel guilty leaving him for the day while I go to work. He does best as the only dog in the home, and he doesn't fuss or bark in the morning. We just needed to establish a routine. Mostly, I just needed to make sure I was taking him outside to go potty and for a walk. He sleeps on my bed at night, and roams freely through the apartment while I'm there. Sometimes he has "enough" of me fussing over him, petting him, etc., and he will get up and go into his crate/cave/den. Adorable!

I have found that with Sergio at least, the more I let him start lounging on my bed, carpet, sofa, etc., the more I think he viewed those spaces as "his den" where he doesn't want to go potty. 

When I take him outside, I just make sure that he goes potty and poop before we go inside. If he's sniffing and sniffing and it's taking him a long time to go, I will not move, and I will turn away from him and ignore him. He goes right away then.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

curly_DC said:


> When I leave Sergio for up to 8 hours while I'm at work, he is much less stressed when I leave his crate (door open) in a smaller x-pen area, with food, water, blanket, toys, and potty pads. He also likes to play with a fuzzy pair of my socks, and I'll leave one of my slept in tee shirts.


An ex-pen is much less confining than a crate, and you have given him a potty spot. I was concerned for the original poster because I thought her dog was crated for a full work day... it turns out that he's only crated for about 4 hours, so that's fine for an adult dog.



curly_DC said:


> When I have to run an errand and I'm just out for around an hour or less, I let him have free run of the apartment, and he doesn't have any accidents. However, I don't think he's less stressed than he is in his crate or a smaller xpen area.


If a dog is properly introduced to a crate and ex-pen, it SHOULDN'T cause anxiety. It should feel like his "safe place". Kodi often chooses to nap in his crate even when we are home and the door is wide open. It sounds like Sergio feels the same way. We have found that Kodi is LESS happy if he is free in the house when we are gone. He just wanders unhappily until he eventually settles into his crate on his own. I don't think he would get into any trouble loose in the house. He is well potty trained, and past the chewing stage. But you never know. When he is in his ex-pen, he feels secure, and *I* feel secure that he won't get hurt while we are out of the house.



curly_DC said:


> Also, I know that some Hav owners feel that Havs should only be with stay at home parents or retired people, but I don't feel guilty leaving him for the day while I go to work. He does best as the only dog in the home, and he doesn't fuss or bark in the morning. We just needed to establish a routine.


You are right. Not every Hav can adjust to being home alone all day, but some definitely can and do. You are right, that establishing a routine, and making sure you give him lots of attention when you ARE home goes a long way toward helping him adjust to being a "stay-at-home Hav" While I have the luxury of working out of my house, so that Kodi is rarely alone more than 4 hours or so at a stretch, I have to honestly say, that I think he is also the type of Hav who COULD adjust to being alone during the work day. He really spends a LOT of his day sleeping in his crate (without a door on it) in my office anyway!



curly_DC said:


> I have found that with Sergio at least, the more I let him start lounging on my bed, carpet, sofa, etc., the more I think he viewed those spaces as "his den" where he doesn't want to go potty.


I think you may be right. Kodi is trustworthy anywhere in the house now, but he was reliable in the kitchen and family room, where the family (and he) spends the majority of time, LONG before he was trustworthy elsewhere in the house. The place we had to watch for the longest was the dining room, perhaps because it is only used by any of us on an intermittent basis.


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