# Dry shampoo and type of coat



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Any dry shampoo suggestions? Turns out I’m not really a fan of the one I bought. 

Just getting ready to order dry/waterless shampoo and a bunch of small sizes of a few different products to try out and compare. As I’m reading through the threads on shampoos and such I’m realizing I have no idea what kind of coat he has! He hasn’t started blowing coat yet and is almost 6 months old. 

What are the characteristics of cotton/silk/fluffy coats? Is it possible for me to figure out what kind of coat my puppy has without the experience of meeting many Havanese? I have only ever had one so when I read what products work well for others it would help to know. 

I thought I read a thread describing how to tell, but it was before we brought our puppy home and now I can’t find it.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I think of a Poodle or Bichon as cotton, Yorkie as silky and my Scout as fluffy and soft 😊 Truffles is silky. We use the Pure Paws Basic Silk products that work great for both coat types. For little accidents I use their Star Line no rinse colorless spray, but it isn't a dry shampoo. It smells nice and is good for touch-ups.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I like CC Proline Self-rinse better than anything else. A lot of show people use it for touch-ups:

\\https://smile.amazon.com/Pro-Line-S...272551&sr=8-5&keywords=self+rinse+dog+shampoo

A proper Havanese coat should not be cottony, though some are. Maltese and Yorkies have silky/satiny coats with no undercoat, which is why they lie so flat. Our breed standard calls for a silly coat, but WITH an under coat. The undercoat is not a dense, weather protective layer like on a northern breed or even a Corgi. But it is there, and lifts the coat away from the dog's body, so they look "fluffier" than a Maltese or Yorkie. It is also supposed to have a slight wave to it, unlike those breeds, but NOT curly like a poodle or Bichon.

That said, just as we were talking about with size, there is a LOT of variation in coat. They should never feel coarse... a coarse coat should be faulted. But you still run across some. ...And you can't tell for sure what an adult Havanese coat will be like from their puppy coat. It is likely that puff-ball puppies will have denser under coats. But the amount of wave can vary a lot. Kodi's puppy coat was SO straight and light as a puppy that he looked quite different from many Havanese puppies I saw on the Forum at the time. I remembering asking Pam when he'd get a fluffy tail! LOL! But he has a beautiful, light but full, wavy, silky adult coat.

Here are two photos of him, one as a puppy, then as an adult:


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

After reading over the forum so many times, here is my list: 

Shampoo/Conditioner 
CC Spectrum - starter/sample kit
ProLine Advantage 
Bio Groom Silk 

Waterless shampoo: ProLine Self Rinse
Grooming Spray: Crown Royale Magic Touch (specifically because I heard this smells good)

Our breeder used Coat Handler so I had it on my list, but these others actually seem to be mentioned more often. 

I’m debating whether or not to try a leave-in detangler. Our climate is really dry so often by the time our puppy is calmed down and had a short rest after his bath he’s already drying so quickly there are tangles. I have been leaving a teeny bit of conditioner in when I rinse so there’s a little more slip when I comb. He isn’t itchy or anything, but maybe I should use something intended as leave-in? 

Knowing we might switch products soon, I wish I could buy a lot more sample sizes! It’s definitely psychological: I don’t have any problem buying 10 different products at $5 each the first time I try something (even if it’s more per ounce) but it’s much harder for me to buy 3 products for $15 each (even though the total is a few dollars less) knowing I might not like one of them. 

I especially wish I could order samples so I can smell them. Or go into a store where I can smell them! Smell is a dealbreaker for me. It doesn’t matter if the smell is strong or perfumed or not- if I like it then it’s okay if it’s strong. I just have a sensitive sense of smell so if I don’t care for it, it drives me crazy and the rest of my family is like, I can’t even smell it anymore!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> After reading over the forum so many times, here is my list:
> 
> Shampoo/Conditioner
> CC Spectrum - starter/sample kit
> ...


Most leave-in conditioners are too heavy for most Havanese coats. So that isn't where I'd start. I hate to tell you, but it is ENTIRELY likely that you will go through quite a few products before deciding what you like best. 

Knowing what I know know, I would STRONGLY recommend that you try the CC Proline Fair Advantage first, for one simple reason. It's one bottle, not two. That means that over all, it's less expensive, AND you only have to rinse once... something my girls appreciate!!! LOL! Unless you dislike lemon scent, you won't mind the smell. It's light and pleasant. I honestly haven't met anyone yet who dislikes it.

Coat Handler's just doesn't work well on my dogs' coats, and the scent is strong. But there are lots of people who do like it.

You mentioned Bio Groom Silk. That's NOT an all-in-one, it's JUST a conditioner, so you would need to choose a shampoo to go with it. BioGroom has a BUNCH of different shampoos... The one I buy is Super White because two of my dogs are mostly white and I need that. But your pup doesn't have much, if any, white, so you don't need that one! Silk works well on Kodi's coat, but is strongly scented. IMO, it ends up being more expensive that CC Spectrum Ten, because the Spectrum Ten is SO much more concentrated... All the CC products are VERY mildly scented. The BioGroom ones are a lot stronger, though I don't find them objectionable.

As far as grooming spray is concerned, I always make my own. I mix the CC Ice on Ice concentrate with water and a squirt of whatever conditioner I am currently using on Kodi. It smells nice, works great, and it's cheap. That way I also KNOW that my grooming spray is going to be compatible with my conditioner.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> You mentioned Bio Groom Silk. That's NOT an all-in-one, it's JUST a conditioner, so you would need to choose a shampoo to go with it.


I do want to try the ProLine. My only hesitation is if it is conditioning enough in my dry climate, so i wanted to order the Bio Groom at the same time just in case. I was planning to try a Bio Groom shampoo, too, but I just can't decide which one!

Rather than a leave-in, do you use grooming spray or anything to help you comb through before/while drying with the ProLine, or is it okay without? I pull him out of the bath soaking wet and just wrap him in a towel. Then I try to brush through before he dries too much so I can get any tangles from the bath, and get his hair out of his eyes and in the right direction, before we use the dryer. By the time i'm halfway done he's already starting to dry and it feels like I'm tugging. However, the texture of his coat does feel good when it's dry, and my daughter has the same problem if she doesn't comb through her hair right when she gets out of the shower, so I've assumed it's more the dry air than the products.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Before you bath him be sure to brush and completely comb through the coat to the skin. When you are able to comb completely through the coat to the skin he's ready for a bath. Before the bath our groomer uses Pure Paws hydrating mist spray for a comb out and to help with any dematting. It's probably best to blow dry and brush as you dry so there is no pulling.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I do want to try the ProLine. My only hesitation is if it is conditioning enough in my dry climate, so i wanted to order the Bio Groom at the same time just in case. I was planning to try a Bio Groom shampoo, too, but I just can't decide which one!


Oh, OK! Pixel, with her shorter coat always does fine with just Fair Advantage. Most of the time Panda does too, but occasionally I use a separate shampoo and conditioner on her. Kodi's coat is just to thick for Fair Advantage to work well on its own. He really needs a conditioner. Every once in a while, if it's REALLY dry (here it is sometimes very dry in the winter) I "flat" his coat in a sink full of warm water and conditioner. That's something I don't think anyone needs to do with a dog in a puppy cut. I don't think you will dislike either of those options, so it won't be a waste... eventually you will use it all up.



EvaE1izabeth said:


> Rather than a leave-in, do you use grooming spray or anything to help you comb through before/while drying with the ProLine, or is it okay without? I pull him out of the bath soaking wet and just wrap him in a towel. Then I try to brush through before he dries too much so I can get any tangles from the bath, and get his hair out of his eyes and in the right direction, before we use the dryer. By the time i'm halfway done he's already starting to dry and it feels like I'm tugging. However, the texture of his coat does feel good when it's dry, and my daughter has the same problem if she doesn't comb through her hair right when she gets out of the shower, so I've assumed it's more the dry air than the products.


I wrap my dogs in a towel, right out of the bath, and carry them to the dryer. I spritz them with Ice on Ice, and comb and brush (using a wood pin brush) as they dry. I never comb them out between. (and brushing alone NEVER works with a dog in full coat) The dryer actually will help you find any small, hidden mats as you work.

once I determined what worked well on Kodi's coat, I started buying gallon bottles. It's MUCh cheaper that way. Now I buy Fair Advantage by the gallon too. I keep the original small bottles with the squirt top, and decant into those from the gallons. The smaller bottles are easier to work with from the sink.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Heather's said:


> Before you bath him be sure to brush and completely comb through the coat to the skin. When you are able to comb completely through the coat to the skin he's ready for a bath. Before the bath our groomer uses Pure Paws hydrating mist spray for a comb out and to help with any dematting. It's probably best to blow dry and brush as you dry so there is no pulling.


Yes, I agree completely, under most circumstances, you want the dog COMPLETELY demoted before you get them wet. ...and at that stage, if some heavier grooming spray helps gets the mats out, go for it... you'll be washing it all back out anyway.

The only time I've broken the "never get a matted dog wet" rule, has been when Kodi has been running in the woods with me, and has come home with his coat matted with dried mud and plant debris. It sets like cement, and there is NO way to comb it out without destroying the coat. In that one instance, I've found that submerging him to the neck in water filled with conditioner, and working the mats and "yuck" out, actually UNDER the water, works REALLY well. Of course, a full bath follows! Here are a few photos of how he's come home at times. We believe that dogs should be allowed to be dogs... at least sometimes! LOL!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I use a wooden pin brush before giving him a bath, but sometimes I think it doesn’t get all of the way through to the roots. I really like it for every day, but for deep, thorough brushing it almost feels like the pins should be more dense. I never use the comb I bought because the teeth a so far apart it’s useless. I do plan to buy a new one, but for now I’ve been making do with the wooden brush and a fine face comb. 

He always has a couple of spots that need to be washed out, and I wish they were just mud, but most recently I’m pretty sure it was white school glue from my daughter’s school project because she had him laying on the floor next to her while she was working. Another time it was chewing gum he laid in. I ended up having to trim most of the gum out, but at least it was on his tummy. Sometimes I think my 11 and 12 year old are going to make sure every sticky substance on earth ends up in his coat. I usually have to comb at least these spots, as well as extra combing around his eyes and on his face, after his bath. 

Most of the time I don’t continually brush him while drying because I don’t have a “real” dryer. I do sometimes, but it takes a long time and I have to be careful because the hair dryer gets pretty warm, so I started doing it this easy (aka lazy) way most of the time. I do a quick once over around his face so I can be careful to control it well. Then I use a diffuser, turn it on low and lay it on the bed next to us. He takes a nap, and I usually read, check my email, etc. and keep my hand where I can feel the temp from the dryer. I brush through him every few minutes, moving the hair dryer every so often in a circle around us. I don’t think it even really dries him, it just sort of warms the air while he’s air drying.

I just realized, I should add that as long as I get any little tangles from the bath, and the hair on his face is pointed in the right general direction before I start drying, he is perfectly soft and tangle-free once he’s dry, whether or not I brush him while he’s drying. I’m sure that could change at any moment when his puppy coat starts to change!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> Y.
> We believe that dogs should be allowed to be dogs... at least sometimes! LOL!


It's a good reminder when they're so happy doing something so messy that they are dogs and should be able to have some doggy play time! Look at that happy face!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I use a wooden pin brush before giving him a bath, but sometimes I think it doesn't get all of the way through to the roots. I really like it for every day, but for deep, thorough brushing it almost feels like the pins should be more dense. I never use the comb I bought because the teeth a so far apart it's useless. I do plan to buy a new one, but for now I've been making do with the wooden brush and a fine face comb.


I ONLY use the wood pin brush for fluffing while drying, just because it is so gentle on the coat. If you have been able to get through his coat (excepting glue and gum  ) so far with ANY brush you're lucky... and living on borrowed time. There isn't a brush made that can get all the way through a full Havanese coat. A slicker, yes, IF you can lay the dog down and line brush. but not a regular pin brush. get a comb soon. You're going to need it, and HE'S going to have to get used to it.

One word of caution about gum. These days most kids chew sugar free gum. If that's the case with your kids, they need to be MUCH more careful. Xylitol is the sweeter most often used in sugar free gum and it is TERRIBLY toxic to dogs. We've had dogs here on the forum die in minutes after ingesting gum from the sidewalk.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> There isn't a brush made that can get all the way through a full Havanese coat.


He has not really had any mats yet other than sticky stuff, but I definitely know that's not going to last. I need to get set up before he starts blowing coat, too. I do want to buy a new comb but I'm a little gun-shy because the one I have turned out to be useless because it's too coarse. The cheap face comb works better than the coarse one. Every time I go to buy a butter comb I hesitate at the last minute and second guess the size. Is there one that's a pretty good bet for most coats? I also want to get a small CC slicker brush.



krandall said:


> Xylitol is the sweeter most often used in sugar free gum and it is TERRIBLY toxic to dogs.


This is terrifying, this is the only gum I keep in my house because my dad is a dentist! It seems like whenever I think I have all of the cautionary items and foods down and everything is puppy-proof another one pops up that I didn't even think of. My husband didn't know about grapes and he grew up with dogs - his family just never really ate grapes.

But my kids need to do better with gum anyway - they are way too old to be mishandling gum, so I have no problem with them losing gum privileges.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> He has not really had any mats yet other than sticky stuff, but I definitely know that's not going to last. I need to get set up before he starts blowing coat, too. I do want to buy a new comb but I'm a little gun-shy because the one I have turned out to be useless because it's too coarse. The cheap face comb works better than the coarse one. Every time I go to buy a butter comb I hesitate at the last minute and second guess the size. Is there one that's a pretty good bet for most coats? I also want to get a small CC slicker brush.


The one I like best for the girls is the CC 001. I use the CC 005 on Kodi, but he is larger and has a LOT more coat.



EvaE1izabeth said:


> This is terrifying, this is the only gum I keep in my house because my dad is a dentist! It seems like whenever I think I have all of the cautionary items and foods down and everything is puppy-proof another one pops up that I didn't even think of. My husband didn't know about grapes and he grew up with dogs - his family just never really ate grapes.
> 
> But my kids need to do better with gum anyway - they are way too old to be mishandling gum, so I have no problem with them losing gum privileges.


I hear you. It took CONSTANT nagging when my younger son was still living at home. But they DO also make gum sweetened with Stevia. You might want to give that a try.


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## Jeanniek (Mar 20, 2018)

krandall said:


> The one I like best for the girls is the CC 001. I use the CC 005 on Kodi, but he is larger and has a LOT more coat..


I had read elsewhere to buy the CC006 and the 014, and maybe the 00R. But now you're saying the 001 works for your girls and the 005 for the larger hair. Do I need to wait to get my puppy before I buy combs? Or should I get a smaller one (000 or 001), knowing that down the road I may have to buy other sizes? It is so hard when I can't actually see the combs so I can understand all this.

Thanks for your help!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jeanniek said:


> I had read elsewhere to buy the CC006 and the 014, and maybe the 00R. But now you're saying the 001 works for your girls and the 005 for the larger hair. Do I need to wait to get my puppy before I buy combs? Or should I get a smaller one (000 or 001), knowing that down the road I may have to buy other sizes? It is so hard when I can't actually see the combs so I can understand all this.
> 
> Thanks for your help!


I think that for young puppies, the feet and face comb works best because the larger comb is as big as the puppy! (well, not really, but you get the point  )

You can add others as the puppy grows. You will want to have a good set of tools by the time the puppy is about 8 months old, because sometime between then and a year, the puppy will start blowing coat... and you will want to have all tools on hand and ready before that happens!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Mine came just in time! I really like the 001, it’s just right. 

I originally purchased a comb that looked similar to the CC and the spacing of the teeth was almost the same, but I hated it. I only used it when I had to for trimming his coat. If you’re cutting with scissors the buttercomb is a million times better. Way more control and it doesn’t pull. 

I also bought tiny, cheap face combs from Amazon. I use the tiny combs every day beneath his eyes. They pull out goop and fluff up the hair from weeping eyes, and because they’re short I don’t worry about poking him in the eye. 

Next on my list is the CC face comb. If I had bought the CC face comb and 001 from the start I would have saved money on the less expensive combs and brush I ended up throwing away. I can’t imagine the CC combs wearing out. I really love the CC wooden pin brush, but it doesn’t feel like the same investment to me because so many of the pins are already broken. I don’t know if I’ll buy another one to replace it or something else. 

I am curious if anyone uses the handles with the CC combs. I know I wouldn’t want a handle while cutting. Is it more for appearance or is it useful in other ways?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Next on my list is the CC face comb. If I had bought the CC face comb and 001 from the start I would have saved money on the less expensive combs and brush I ended up throwing away. I can't imagine the CC combs wearing out.


I try to tell people that, but unfortunately, most puppy owners have to make their own mistakes in this regard.  I addressed the wood pin brushes in my other post. I wouldn't be without mine... but I DO take care of them.



EvaE1izabeth said:


> I am curious if anyone uses the handles with the CC combs. I know I wouldn't want a handle while cutting. Is it more for appearance or is it useful in other ways?


I never have... They just look like they'd make the comb more bulky to handle. Maybe their good, but I've never heard anyone raving about them.


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## Jeanniek (Mar 20, 2018)

krandall said:


> I try to tell people that, but unfortunately, most puppy owners have to make their own mistakes in this regard.  I addressed the wood pin brushes in my other post. I wouldn't be without mine... but I DO take care of them.


How do you take care of it?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jeanniek said:


> How do you take care of it?


I don't let dogs chew it, first of all.  I also keep it clean and dry and stored either in my ring-side show grooming bag or my grooming caddy beside the grooming table. (depending on which brush it is... I have two)


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Jeanniek said:


> How do you take care of it?


Don't forget you've left it on the bed and assume he's chewing on a bully stick 



krandall said:


> I try to tell people that, but unfortunately, most puppy owners have to make their own mistakes in this regard.


I know for me, I planned to buy the CC combs eventually, but I just didn't see it as especially urgent since I bought a good brush and other combs. With human brushes and combs, there isn't such an enormous quality disparity between a $10 brush and a $30 brush. Of course, the $30 brush is better and gives a smoother blowout, but most people can still get by with a $10 brush and have a great hairstyle. And even the highest quality detangling comb is under $10! So it seems a little surreal that a "decent" comb (for a long haired dog) is so hard to find at a basic pet store. I think you're right that it's one of those mistakes people have to make because it's hard to understand until the mistake has been made. I'm just thankful you and others are here to redirect!

I also feel lucky that our puppy had a really easy puppy coat because it wasn't until the fine tooth comb came that I realized I wasn't combing all of the way to the root in a couple of harder to reach places around his neck. Fortunately he wasn't matted! The tines were just spaced too far apart in the comb I was using. And they looked very similar - I could only tell the difference when I placed them next to each other.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> I ONLY use the wood pin brush for fluffing while drying, just because it is so gentle on the coat. If you have been able to get through his coat (excepting glue and gum  ) so far with ANY brush you're lucky... and living on borrowed time. There isn't a brush made that can get all the way through a full Havanese coat. A slicker, yes, IF you can lay the dog down and line brush. but not a regular pin brush.


My brush gets all the way through Shama's coat. I usually start with the brush though (after spraying so coat isn't completely dry) then move to the comb to make sure I get all the mats. Somewhere (maybe this thread?) I mentioned which brush and comb I use.


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