# Whimpering puppy in expen?



## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

Hey guys - When my wife and I leave Chester in his expen to do our own thing around the apartment (eat dinner, clean, etc), he starts to whimper and whine, sometimes even howl. We're trying our best to ignore him and give him attention when he's calm, but not without some heartache and pain at hearing him "be sad". 

Can you guys confirm that we're doing the right thing by ignoring him and giving attention on our own terms? Because at times, it physically hurts us to hear him whimper and howl.

And since it's only week 1 with us, is it normal for him to be more "needy" this early in his life with us? And with our ignoring, he'll be more independent?

ps - it seems like our attention is better than any chew toy at the moment. so when he's in his expen, he just ignores his toys and waits for us to let him out. We'll probably start playing with him and his toys a little more in his expen/crate.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I have the same problem. I can't stand to hear the crying their for I take the crying puppy out and loose all control with the situation. I do however leave every day about the same time. I have a new puppy who is left in her crate and Maddie is doing well left out. 
I had bought a x pin with the intention of using it I even rigged it so I had a chair in it and watched tv and did computer work  I can't believe I did that I was literally in the ex pin for hours a day! That is how much I can not stand a crying puppy.
I think some of us just don't have the heart to have a baby go threw that.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Puppies do require alot of attention and havanese are companion dogs and they don't particularly like to be alone and will want to be with you. THey are deemed 'velcro dogs' for a reason, mine follows me to the bathroom and even in the middle of the night if I have to go get a sip of water, she's at my side 24/7, that's how most of them are wired.

I know safety is important and there will be times they need to be in the xpen for safety reasons, but I"m not sure if there is any real 'fix' for them wanting to be with you in the house if you are home, mine usually falls asleep at my feet or next to me, I think its just comfort for them to be able to see us and when we are out of sight, they get upset.

Kara


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

If you really need to confine him away from you at a time when you can't watch him, try giving him a Kong filled with yummy stuff. His kibble with a little yogurt to hold it together is fine. You may find that a yummy treat that he really needs to work at works better than chew toys. If need be, you can portion out his food and give it ALL to him this way throughout the day.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

It never entered my mind to confine Rosie when I was in the house with her. I used a baby playpen to put her in if I had to go outside for a while, otherwise she was always in the room that I was in. We used the playpen at night also until she got big enough that we were not afraid that we would roll over on her. I put the pen next to the bed so that I could touch her if she whined and also hear her when she got restless and needed to go potty in the night. Rosie is my first Havanese but I didn't treat her any differently than any other puppy I have had over several decades. Puppies just need to be with someone until they are old enough to feel safe just going into another room. You know that puppies don't have depth perception for a while and sometimes won't even step off of a rug to the bare floor. So just imagine how frightened they can be until they realize that they are in their permanent home and safe.


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Toto, I find your question very interesting. I have read a lot saying that if you are doing things around the house and can't give your puppy your full attention, to keep him in a ex pen, as you are doing. This keeps him from making mistakes, going potty where he shouldn't, that kind of thing. This is what I planned to do until my puppy is well house-trained. Is that not recommended by the Hav owners here? Of course, I want to do the right thing by my babe!


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Sometimes they are comforted by having an old piece of clothing of yours, close by them,it is sometimes enough to settle them,our girl Nellie had an old slipper of mine, and it seemed to do the trick, she never chewed it, just lay with her nose in it! Dizzie on the other hand never needed any thing.


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

jetsetgo! said:


> Toto, I find your question very interesting. I have read a lot saying that if you are doing things around the house and can't give your puppy your full attention, to keep him in a ex pen, as you are doing. This keeps him from making mistakes, going potty where he shouldn't, that kind of thing. This is what I planned to do until my puppy is well house-trained. Is that not recommended by the Hav owners here? Of course, I want to do the right thing by my babe!


Unless you are going to be home 24/7 for the next 12-15 years, you need to teach your puppy to cope without you, even if that will never be their preference.

Yes, if you can't give your undivided attention to the puppy, a pen or other safe place is appropriate. With Will, when he was under 4 months, he would get so tired from being out that I'd put him in his pen for a nap while I was home. Yes, an unsupervised puppy is way more likely to have an accident, and worse, an accident you don't notice until it's become a habit. They can also find some tasty wires to chew. Sometimes our preference or theirs is outweighed by safety issues like this!

Ignoring the whining and rewarding the quiet is a good thing to do. No one likes listening to the whining puppy, but, they will learn pretty quickly. They will continue to 'test' you as they grow to see if maybe they can get away with it now. Will actually had a few instants where his sad whining turned into angry barking - I just ignored that, too, because I didn't want to reward the tantrum.

Karen gave you a great tip with the extra-delicious toys that you reserve only for the pen; I also feed the dogs in their pens which makes it exciting, too. My final tip is to have a serious play session, then a little bit of cuddle time, before you put the pup away. This makes them tired, then calms them down, so they are likely to just nap while in the pen. Tired dogs are happy dogs!

Another option is to leash the puppy and loop the leash around your belt loop. This doesn't guarantee they won't have an accident or get their mouth around something, but, prevents them from wandering too far away if you are partially distracted. Again, though, it's healthy for even our doting and devoted Havs to be able to wait patiently for our return!

Good luck!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jetsetgo! said:


> Toto, I find your question very interesting. I have read a lot saying that if you are doing things around the house and can't give your puppy your full attention, to keep him in a ex pen, as you are doing. This keeps him from making mistakes, going potty where he shouldn't, that kind of thing. This is what I planned to do until my puppy is well house-trained. Is that not recommended by the Hav owners here? Of course, I want to do the right thing by my babe!


I think it's somewhere in the middle. There are times that you just may HAVE to confine your baby... When you need to take a shower, when you have to deal with small children, when you are opening the oven door and the puppy could hurt himself... So for most of us, it's unrealistic to think we can keep the puppy with us EVERY SECOND of the day.

OTOH, people also need to recognize that raising a puppy is a big commitment, and the time they need INTENSE input from us is really relatively short... Much shorter than with human children!:biggrin1: As such, you SHOULD try to spend as much time WITH your puppy, directly supervising them as possible. How often they need to be confined, (and how well they accept it!) will vary from family to family and puppy to puppy.

Kodi came very well litter box trained, so it was generally adequate for me to have him gated in the kitchen with me, or gated right by my computer. (on a solid floor) In each case, there was always a litter box within easy reach. I made sure I got my puppy at the beginning of the summer, when I was not working, so I could give him my undivided attention for his first couple of months with us. (I know this isn't possible for everyone, but its something to think about for people planning for a puppy)

But he still did have to go in the ex-pen when I took a shower or was working with the oven. In those cases, I gave him a Kong or other food stuffed chew toy, and left him there. He sometimes fussed a bit, but that's life. He got used to it.

It is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to EITHER keep the puppy closely confined OR watch them VERY CAREFULLY (as in eye on them, NEVER out of sight) if you want potty training to go well. It's usually easier to supervise them carefully if you can keep them somewhat confined... It's easy for little puppies to disappear under furniture and have accidents that you may not even know about until later.

Some people use the method of "tethering", which is attaching the puppy to you on a leash to keep track of them. This didn't work for us for two reasons. First, it would have kept Kodi from reaching his litter box, which he already knew how to use, and second, he's always been VERY handy with his teeth, and he tended to chew through leashes in no time.:biggrin1: So exactly what method works best is going to depend partly on your dog, partly on the physical layout of the living space, and partly on your personal preference. The key, again, is the combination of close supervision and/or confinement.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kat, Kodi still stays in an ex-pen/crate arrangement when we aren't home (that's where he sleeps too) because that's what he prefers. When he sees us putting our coats on, he runs into his ex-pen and waits, because he knows he's going to get a sweet potato chew. He LOVES these, and he ONLY gets them in his ex-pen.

We've tried leaving him loose a few times when we've gone out for short errands, and every time, when we come back, he's asleep in his crate. Since that's his preference, it makes me feel safer knowing that there's no way he can get into anything harmful while I'm out. So we just shut him in the ex-pen. 

OTOH, he DOESN'T like to be shut in the ex-pen when we're home, but he no longer needs to be at this point in his life. (I don't think he "liked" i when he was little either, but he tolerated it better, because it happened more often)


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## jetsetgo! (Aug 3, 2010)

Great info. Thanks for clarifying!


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## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

Day 11,

Here is something I noticed in my 11 days of utilizing the expen and potty training. I read a lot that exposing him to new things is essential particularly at this age (16 weeks) so that they overcome the "scared" phase they go through. While we keep Chester confined to an expen when we can't oversee him, we still keep him confined to our living room where we spend most of our time so have we have better oversight. And as you all must know, these little guys can be quick and disappear in an instant. Then, to encourage exploration and experiencing as much as he can at a young age, we open up the entire apartment to him. As you can guess, the bigger area he has, the harder to keep an eye on, the greater risk of accidents.

It's a tough balance to let him explore and experience new things in his home, without it being a detriment to his potty training. 

On a side note - we have a large area rug covering our living room. Chester's already had a few accidents on there (too fluffy! couldn't tell when he was squatting to pee!). He may be confusing the rug with the pee pad. Do you guys recommend me removing the rug completely until he's trained?


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## Gizmo'sMom (Jul 9, 2010)

I have learned recently that Gizmo doesn't mind as much to be crated in a room with me as she does being xpened in a different room. I figured she would like a little more freedom, but apparently being able to see me makes her happier 

Now when I clean I move the crate with me from area to area so she can watch me and I know she won't get into any of the cleaning items. She also seems to know the difference when we leave. She doesn't wine at all when we leave even when I'm at work....but if I try to take a shower it's a different story


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## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

toto3d;365786
On a side note - we have a large area rug covering our living room. Chester's already had a few accidents on there (too fluffy! couldn't tell when he was squatting to pee!). He may be confusing the rug with the pee pad. Do you guys recommend me removing the rug completely until he's trained?[/QUOTE said:


> I pulled up the area rug in the living room (where her xpen was) and bathroom rugs until she was potty trained. I do think they confuse it with a pad. She peed on a few friend & family's area rugs too so be careful if you are visiting to introduce your dog!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

toto3d said:


> Day 11,
> 
> Here is something I noticed in my 11 days of utilizing the expen and potty training. I read a lot that exposing him to new things is essential particularly at this age (16 weeks) so that they overcome the "scared" phase they go through. While we keep Chester confined to an expen when we can't oversee him, we still keep him confined to our living room where we spend most of our time so have we have better oversight. And as you all must know, these little guys can be quick and disappear in an instant. Then, to encourage exploration and experiencing as much as he can at a young age, we open up the entire apartment to him. As you can guess, the bigger area he has, the harder to keep an eye on, the greater risk of accidents.
> 
> ...


You can expose you puppy to lots of different things without giving him free run of your apartment. That is asking for trouble at this age. Get him boxes to climb on, big bowls to jump in and out of, ropes to tug around after him, and MOST of all, expose him to new people EVERY day.

And yes, if the room you are confining him to before he is WELL trained, has a rug, I'd take it up for now. Otherwise, move the base of operations into the kitchen for the time being.


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## Narwyn (Jan 24, 2010)

krandall said:


> Kat, Kodi still stays in an ex-pen/crate arrangement when we aren't home (that's where he sleeps too) because that's what he prefers. When he sees us putting our coats on, he runs into his ex-pen and waits, because he knows he's going to get a sweet potato chew. He LOVES these, and he ONLY gets them in his ex-pen.
> 
> We've tried leaving him loose a few times when we've gone out for short errands, and every time, when we come back, he's asleep in his crate. Since that's his preference, it makes me feel safer knowing that there's no way he can get into anything harmful while I'm out. So we just shut him in the ex-pen.
> 
> OTOH, he DOESN'T like to be shut in the ex-pen when we're home, but he no longer needs to be at this point in his life. (I don't think he "liked" i when he was little either, but he tolerated it better, because it happened more often)


My guys are also in the ex pen when I am gone. They get a good cookie and both run into their pens when I open the jar.
As Clover has lost much of his vision and hearing, he will often worry himself looking for me in the house when I am not so far away - I usually have to get close enough to touch him or let him sniff me for him to know I'm there. Putting him in the pen lets him know I am leaving and he just crashes in his comfortable bed. 
Will, at this point, is a terror-causing puppy, so he is better off somewhere his destruction options are limited


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Thumper said:


> Puppies do require alot of attention and havanese are companion dogs and they don't particularly like to be alone and will want to be with you. THey are deemed 'velcro dogs' for a reason, mine follows me to the bathroom and even in the middle of the night if I have to go get a sip of water, she's at my side 24/7, that's how most of them are wired.
> 
> I know safety is important and there will be times they need to be in the xpen for safety reasons, but I"m not sure if there is any real 'fix' for them wanting to be with you in the house if you are home, mine usually falls asleep at my feet or next to me, I think its just comfort for them to be able to see us and when we are out of sight, they get upset.
> 
> Kara


I agree 100% with Kara. Hav's are "velcro" companion dogs and want to be with you. Eight little eyes watch me shower, go potty, and whatever. I think your puppy would just follow wherever you go. Have you tried Merrick flossies? They're digestable tendons and will keep your puppy busy for hours.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

I took up our hall rug and runner as Nellie kept on having accidents on them and then started using them as pee pads, I think she could probably smell where Dizzie had, had the odd accident when he was a puppy and that triggered the whole thing off[I had cleaned the rugs!] Since the rugs wet we have had no accidents there.and thats been over a month.


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## Jazi (Oct 13, 2010)

Bravo for using an x-pen to keep puppy safe. Here is my story: I have a 6 month old Havenese. She has been with me since 12 weeks. I had the pen set up when she came home. It was about 6 ft. long and 4 ft. wide, with a nice soft rug to lay on. She preferred the hardwood floor however. I had water for her and also fed her in the x-pen. She had lots of toys and a pillow. We used it when we both were busy and needed to get things done. I'd take her out potty every 45 minutes, let her play in the yard, then bring her back in to roam around the house. We soon found out that we had to keep all the doors to other rooms closed, and had to put a gate up to the living room. She was so small, she would go under beds, etc. and she was chewing on cords. This lasted about 6 weeks. She has been potty trained since 5 months old, we gradually made the x-pen smaller, until we took it away, but left the rug. That rug is now her place to nap, even though we have three doggie beds throughout the house.
The x-pen saved us much stress. We also have a wire crate for her to sleep in at night. It is in our bedroom, right near us. 
Oh, I did not allow her to bark or whine while in the x-pen. I taught her to be quiet, and to stay "off" the sides of the x-pen. It took time but it was well worth it because now she understands, "shhhh" and I use it when she barks at inappropriate times. Good luck with your Havi, they are awesome dogs.


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## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

We started the ex pen this week, but he has barked a lot so far in protest. He had too much freedom and we are cutting back to keep him out of the living room for long periods of time until he's better potty trained. In the morning after we let him out to potty and then give him his food and go upstairs to shower, he barks horribly. This wakes up my kids or any others sleeping in the house, and makes me very grumpy. I am trying to adjust his schedule to either get him to sleep in a bit later or not bark as much in the ex pen. I know to ignore him, but in the meantime, it's hard to hear him bark so much. Oddly, he doesn't bark as much in the crate (except in the morning.) I think it will just take some time. We're trying to go into his ex pen with him some to play so he knows it's not such a bad place.


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## Jazi (Oct 13, 2010)

Your Havanese is protesting for sure as did my little girl. I pulled up a chair in front of the x-pen and taught her to stay off the sides of the pen, by using the word "off", and gently putting her front paws on the floor. I also told her "no bark" and "shh". Give him a treat when he does what you ask, if even for a few seconds. This is very frustrating and I also became grumpy. Gradually, he will learn the words and settle down. You need to do this when you have time and are not in a hurry. If you can't devote the time, use the crate until you have time to spend and least 10 minutes instructing her. Havi's are gentle souls and do not take well to harshness, so please be gentle with him.. Be sure the x-pen is in the busiest part of the house so he can see you. Ours was in the kitchen out of the cooking area, of course. Havi pups get upset if they cannot see you but know you are in the house. If need be, put a smaller x-pen upstairs or take him with you into the bathroom with some toys, and close the door so he cannot get out and get into trouble. Beware however, Havi's love to run off with your underware!
I like the idea of going into the x-pen with him, but why not let one of the kids do that for a few minutes only, because they need to gain the confidence of staying in there alone to play or nap.


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