# HELP!! Indoor Potty Training Issues with 18 Week Puppy



## pvlahos (Jan 2, 2020)

Our Duke is 18 weeks old and for now we've decided to solely potty train him indoors using a potty pad tray. We are having a few issues with this that I'd like some feedback on.

His setup is attached. We have his crate attached to an x-pen. A gray mat covers the carpet to protect it from any accidents. His gray potty pad tray (just a tray with the white potty pad inside of it) is at one end of x-pen from far from where his bed/crate is. His food bowl is across from that. At first when we got him, we had most of the floor of the x-pen covered in white potty pads except for the area where the food is. Once a week, we removed a white potty pad until we are now left with just one white potty pad and the gray potty tray. I believe this is called the 'gate' method of indoor training. The goal is to get the puppy to go 100% of the time on the gray potty pad tray - where he can see the white potty pad very clearly inside of it. 

Initially he did really well with us removing a potty pad each week, but now what is happening is that 80% of the time he will pee and poop on either the gray potty pad try or the white potty pad just outside of it, but the other 20% of the time he will have an accident and go on the gray mat that covers the carpeted floor. I'm not sure if this means we are moving too fast and maybe we should add more white potty pads back to this x-pen? Every time that we see him go on the gray potty pad tray we give him a food related treat to reward him. We do not give him a treat if he goes on the white potty pad next to the gray tray because ultimately we want him going solely on the gray potty pad tray. 

The other thing I've heard is that when initially training them, the x-pen should be small so that they don't have the opportunity to soil elsewhere other than the potty pad. We have the x-pen quite large so the puppy has room to run and play. We tried making it smaller but he hated it and I really hate confining him to such a small area so I'm not sure what to do.

Whenever we take the puppy outside of the x-pen to play with us, we take the gray potty tray with us and place it on the kitchen floor. We clearly show him where his potty is, but he almost always has accidents and goes either on the kitchen floor or on the living room carpet. He is not making the connection that the gray potty tray is where he needs to potty. Our dog does not give us any cues prior to peeing so it's very hard to catch him before doing it. We'll literally be playing with him and then next thing we now he's squatting and peeing at the same time, lol.

So sorry for the long winded post. By my two main issues are the inconsistency with using the gray potty pad tray inside the x-pen and the total disregard for it outside of the x-pen. It's been two months of training so I thought he would have 'gotten it' by now!!

Thanks!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Ricky Ricardo wasn't house broken until he was a year old. Sometimes Havanese can be a challenge to house break - for both the dog and the owners. We made every mistake in the book! Today he is extremely dependable and reliable.

Ricky's Popi


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

The method you are using is interesting! I never used pads and I haven’t used it myself but it makes sense to me based on my own experience, because my puppy was trained on paper by the breeder. 

I do think I would back up and make the area smaller, the size it was when he was most successful. The most problems occur with moving ahead to expand space or allow more freedom when the puppy isn’t at 100%. If you want him to have more room to play, have him go potty and then take him out of the expen and keep him close to you by keeping him tethered. As long as you are able to monitor him while you’re doing this, you’ll have the added benefit of beginning to train him to the other rooms in your home while you’re doing laundry, watching tv, etc. Just make sure you return frequently to take him potty on the pad, and that he still spends enough time in the ex pen for the potty training system to work, and so he that he can handle separation. If he’s crying in the smaller space, I would personally still keep it small, but plan a few short blocks of “play time” a few times a day so he’s tired and relaxed when he’s there. When my puppy was little and I needed to work on something, if I planned ahead and played with him for 10-15 minutes before, he would completely crash. It always worked better for me if I worked on little training games instead of just playing (like name games). I think it made his brain tired instead of just getting him excited. 

You could also try using the word “potty” (or whatever word you want to use) a lot if you haven’t already, when he is going. Mine started really recognizing the word around the age your puppy is now, when he’s been home about a month. It was a huge turning point for us, but it did take time between when he started recognizing the word and when he was able to actually implement it as an instruction. It was still a long process, but being able to put him down and tell him to go potty helped so much! Less waiting around for him to go, preventing accidents by having him go before taking him into a different room, getting him to go potty go at parks and unfamiliar places or before getting in the car, and keeping to a less demanding schedule long term.

Hopefully you’ll get advice that answers more of your specific questions!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Also, I know a lot of people use pads successfully and others believe that pads specifically are too similar to the feeling of carpet and other surfaces to work effectively. We had a lot of problems because our breeder paper trained, and I’m not saying that’s a terrible method, but it just didn’t work for us. We switched to wood pellets. I think the idea is if you want your puppy to go indoors, you want them to associate going potty with one particular texture and smell and location. Maybe some puppies “get it” with pads, but I do think some get confused between pads and carpet, or in our case, training paper and kids’ homework. You might have more success using the same method but with a different material. I didn’t have any trouble switching materials but my puppy did have a head start on indoor training before he came home. Maybe someone else can offer a more definitive recommendation on whether or not to switch and how. 

Whatever you decide to use, I think decreasing the space is probably the key.


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## pvlahos (Jan 2, 2020)

Goodness a year? The breeder told us a few weeks, LOL!! I think that's why we're a bit frustrated. Everyone has been telling us Havanese are smart and they pick up on potty training quickly, but now we're hearing differently. Oh well. It's a good thing he's so darn cute!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Did your breeder mean it takes a few weeks to teach indoor potty or for the puppy to be completely trained? I do think they’re different. I also think if your goal is for him to figure out the potty quickly, making the space smaller will make that more likely. 

Indoor potty definitely makes it easier because it does take small dogs longer to be completely reliable. But it’s just one piece of potty training, IMO. As far as being completely reliable, a lot of people here will say to plan on a year before you let your guard down, because a lot of puppies have little setbacks around a year. That doesn’t mean the intensity will be like it is now. It gets easier quickly, especially if you respond immediately to any problems, and indoor potty also makes it easier. By 4-5 months I still had to take him out often but he didn’t have to go first thing in the morning anymore, so there were clear improvements and it wasn’t demanding. Mine felt reliable around 9 months but I didn’t want to take any chances, so I didn’t start relaxing until after he was a year old.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Also, I do think Havanese pick up the idea of potty training quickly. I taught mine to use the potty tray in 3 days max, and he learned “go potty” really fast. But it takes longer for their bladders to fully develop, and because they’re smaller, it also takes longer for them to generalize their training from their expen “home” to the whole house.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Last thing, haha! 

Honestly, I do agree there’s a bit of urgency to your situation because he’s practicing going in the wrong place. I would make it smaller as soon as you can, until he’s only going on the potty. Since he’s going on the carpet, the more I think about it, I’d really consider getting rid of the pads and using pine pellets just inside the tray. A lot of puppies do have trouble distinguishing between carpet and pee pads, not just Havanese but lots of breeds. I think it’s part of why indoor training sometimes gets a bad rap. Pine pellets have a more distinct and unique smell (that doesn’t smell bad like pee pads can), plus they’re cheaper and easier to clean up. There are lots of threads about it here on the forum if you try searching “indoor potty” or “pine pellets.” 

Also, the gray pad over the carpet, could it be harboring pee smell that humans wouldn’t notice but the puppy might be able to smell?


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## Avic77 (Feb 17, 2020)

I am new here but we also use an indoor potty for 75% of Pippins potty needs(the rest is outside) Here is what I did. I had a small sleeping crate connected to a large dog crate with his potty pan and small area for toys (i did not have an xpen). Not much room at all and that is fine. He shouldnt be in pen 24/7
If he was out of the pen for anything I would take him to his potty pan every 30 minutes. I would tell him "Pippin go potty" and put him IN his potty pan. If he pottied he got LOTS of praise and treats. We repeated this for weeks! Pippin likes a fresh pee pad. If its too wet he will not go on it.
It took awhile for us to discover the "right potty". The pee pad mesh top holder did not work for us. We ended up buying the Puppy Go Here litter box (i found it expensive and tried to NOT have to buy it but in the end it was exactly what we needed). This gave Pippin a very well defined potty with WALLS. He wasnt half hanging out and missing the pan. I put pine pellets in the bottom and a pee pad on top. Some people suggest some kind of mesh topper over the pine pellets. 
We recently added the Pro Pawty (brown cover thing) just to make his bathroom more discreet and less of an eye sore for us humans.


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## Avic77 (Feb 17, 2020)

BTW Pippin still gets a cookie for using the potty. Note the bag of treats on his Potty :smile2:


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

It's all about habit for them. If he is missing the target, go back down in size until he is successful, and then, only gradually, go up in available room. It has nothing to do with reasoning at this age. You have to develop the habit that he goes on the pad.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

pvlahos said:


> Goodness a year? The breeder told us a few weeks, LOL!! I think that's why we're a bit frustrated. Everyone has been telling us Havanese are smart and they pick up on potty training quickly, but now we're hearing differently. Oh well. It's a good thing he's so darn cute!


Oh yeah. I mean they're smart but they are little dogs. And therefore not known to be quick to potty train. I was absolutely consistent but ultimately indoor training didn't work for us. He was doing pretty good around 5 months but still had some poop accidents. To complicate matters they can be reliable for a while and then regress. He's what I'd consider potty trained at 14 months but I still take him out every few hrs.


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## Chocdiva1 (Jun 30, 2014)

*I failed potty training*

My Lil angel "Ava the Diva" will be four in April. She is not potty trained, I am. I just let her out every 4 hours. She will NOT bark to go out she will go to door and if I happen to see her I will let her out. If I don't catch her she will go on floor by door. I tried the bell she seem afraid of it.
When I let her out and say " go potty" she will go.
When it is raining or wet out she will run out back and go on outside kitchen area!!!!!!!!!!! NOT on the grass next to the patio because it is wet!
Is it too late for her/me?


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## Jeanniek (Mar 20, 2018)

Around the same age, my little girl was doing the same thing - - going right outside her box . I finally started changing her box every time she went, and then she was more likely to use the box correctly. (Doesn’t sound like that will work with your system.) But the thing was, she’d be good for a few months, and then there would be accidents. It was around a year old, when she would get let out more consistently, that she will go inside, on the box, when unable to go outside because of weather. I have found, though, that when she is not happy about something, she will go in the wrong place. My sister came to visit for a week. Zumba absolutely loved her. The day my sister went back home, Zumba pooped all over the house, nowhere near her boxes. Thankfully, she was back to her normal self the next day, and in a month we’ve had no more problems. 

I look forward to the day she could hold it for 4 hours. Hour and a half seems to be her preferred limit.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Chocdiva1 said:


> My Lil angel "Ava the Diva" will be four in April. She is not potty trained, I am. I just let her out every 4 hours. She will NOT bark to go out she will go to door and if I happen to see her I will let her out. If I don't catch her she will go on floor by door. I tried the bell she seem afraid of it.
> When I let her out and say " go potty" she will go.
> When it is raining or wet out she will run out back and go on outside kitchen area!!!!!!!!!!! NOT on the grass next to the patio because it is wet!
> Is it too late for her/me?


If you can let her out every 4 hours and she goes potty, isn't that potty trained? Is she having accidents inside if she's let out every 4 hours?

When it's raining, can you take her out on a leash? Or block off her access to the the kitchen area?



Chocdiva1 said:


> She is not potty trained, I am.


I get what you're saying, that it's frustrating to be tied to taking her out every 4 hours, but a big piece of potty training IS sort of self training and diligence as the owner. You know what she needs and you're following through, I'm not sure it's bad behavior on her part. It seems like the problem is more that it's become a burden, and maybe there's a way to get help and relieve that stress. It's great when a dog can let its owner know he needs to go, especially if it's out of the ordinary, but at least a schedule is predictable. I would much rather be on a schedule I can control than be on call for my dog to tell me when he needs to go.

Can you check with the vet to make sure there isn't something that would make it difficult for her to hold it longer than 4 hours? Is she pretty small? I pretty much take mine every 4 hours as an adult because it fits with my schedule, so it doesn't sound that crazy to me. Mine can go longer, but it's easier to fit it into my routine than keep track of whether or not it's been 6 hours or when I took him out last. That's why the indoor potty can be so useful, but i don't know how to teach/reteach indoor potty to an adult dog.


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## pvlahos (Jan 2, 2020)

@EvaE1izabeth whenever he has an accident and goes on the gray carpet cover instead of on his gray potty tray, we do spray it with Nature's Miracle. After a few accidents we wash the whole cover. I do think the issue may be distinguishing between the gray carpet cover and the gray potty pad. Both are the same color so this may be confusing him. I'll see if we can get a different color carpet cover.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions!


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## pvlahos (Jan 2, 2020)

@Avic77 we do have him in his X-pen 24/7 but it's large enough for him to get plenty of exercise and play on his own. Plus we let him our several times a day for up to half an hour to play with him and take him for walks. Our breeder and trainer told us that small puppies should not have access to a big house, especially while potty training, so that is why we decided on the X-pen.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Another voice. Your ex-pen area is too large. The puppy doesn't need a large area to play. They need space for some toys, a water and food bowel and a place to lay down. I'll also suggest you use Two Potty Trays to cover more area of the floor and get rid of the paper potty pads. The paper pads smell and if you let the potty pads or potty trays get too stinky, the dog will seek out some other place to pee and poop. 

Instead of using paper potty pads, get Equine Horse Pellet bedding and put in the Potty Trays. These absorb odor and you don't need to change them out as often as you do paper pads.

Patti was one-year-old before we took down her ex-pen. Her ex-pen opened up into a kitchen-family area where the family spends a lot of time and when people were in this room and could watch her, she roamed in and out of her ex-pen in this family area. 

The ex-pen comes in very handy as the puppy goes through some annoying stages, such as the bitting stage. There will be times when your puppy will needed a couple of Time Out minutes. 

At one time I five gates up around our house while we indoor-potty trained her. For example: If we were in the TV room, Patti was confined to that room with a potty tray near by and EYES were on her. In the beginning, I put her on a leash until she learned where the potty tray was in each room. 

Patti was 10-months old before I started taking down gates and allowed to move around from a few different rooms. Even then she was not alone until I was confident she would go to the potty tray.

At one time, I had three different rooms with potty trays. She now goes to one potty tray in the house, but at age 2 prefers to go outside.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

This is going to sound scary, but I teally think if you make the ex pen smaller you won’t need anything over the carpet. Mikki’s idea with the potty trays is fantastic!! Completely cover the carpet, then remove one. And then you have an additional potty tray for a different area of your home, the garage, etc. If you want her to be potty trained on carpet, resist the urge to protect it from her too much. Of course you don’t want to set her up to fail by giving her a large carpeted area with a small potty area she has to find. But, if she sees carpet as part of her bed, that can be really helpful in training and preventing her from peeing on it in the future. I avoided my rugs and my carpeted loft area for too long and I should have spent more time playing and training (closely supervised) in those areas when he was younger. It required more diligence and it was more of a pain when I had to spend more time on it later because I kept him off the rugs until he was a year old.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

My ex-pen was located on a tile floor. In a second vacation home where every room is carpeted I purchased a piece of linoleum and put it under the ex-pen there. After Patti was indoor-potty trained I cut the linoleum down and placed the potty tray on top it.

While training there will be some accidents and you will want to quickly clean it up and deodorize the area. In our primary home, the indoor potty tray is located on a tile floor in our master bathroom. There have been a few occasions Patti has not gotten her butt over the whole tray and some pee or poop landed on the floor. So, I would not put the a potty tray on top of a carpet.

Since your are starting out I would switch to a litter box with sides, that should prevent that from happening. I have many different types of potty trays and found Patti switched easily to a new one and I'm going to try one with sides where I have carpet. When I switched potty trays, I always rubbed some pee and poop on top of the grate ... just to make sure she knew - _This Is The Place To Do Your Job._

As You know ... The Key is *Consistency, Patience and TREATS!!!!*

Patti essentially trained herself. From the first day, at 8-weeks she automatically went to do the potty tray to do her job. However, in the beginning my ex-pen was too large, there were a few times she got close but didn't quit make it onto the potty tray and I added two potty trays to take up space. That fixed the problem. My ex-pen was 3' x 6'. Patti quickly learned to find the litter potty tray and I removed the second tray.

These little dogs are VERY smart and in my experience Patti was easily housebroken. But ... it takes time. Don't be in a big rush to let your little one roam the house.


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## pvlahos (Jan 2, 2020)

@Mikki thank you so much. Really great advice here. We did get another potty tray as he was destroying the paper pads, so now we have two potty trays in his X-pen. I will look into the pellets. Others have suggested making his X-pen smaller so I think we are going to do that as well.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

*Regarding Equine Horse Pellets.* The idea to use these originally comes from Tom King and many people are using these in their potty trays. King is a high end Havanese breeder and his puppies begin peeing and pooping on these pellets when they're only a few weeks old in the Welping Box. I've seen video of puppies barely able to walk, wiggle over to the pellets to "do their job." His puppies are basically indoor-housebroken starting at a few weeks of age.

King uses a litter box with no grate on top. He can do this because of his set up. Many others, including myself have grates on top of the pellets to keep the pellets from being dragged out onto the floor after the dog has walked on them.

To use a deeper box is easier but I have a number of different potty trays and have found the pellets work in all of them. All you need is one layer of pellets and they don't necessarily have to be tightly packed. When the dog pees on them the pellets expand, so a little space in-between the pellets works just fine. :smile2: There's a learning curve ... but it's fairly quick.


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