# HELP Potty training is going backwards



## jag (Apr 3, 2010)

What am I doing wrong. Our little Izzy was doing great with potty training ( I thought) She came litter box trained from the breeder at 10 weeks. Because we were spending the winter in our RV in AZ we continued with the litter box. She completed her shots right before we left for home, so once arriving home we started the switch to going outside. She was doing so well, but the last week everything is changing. I take her out side, she will not go, we walk, she will not go. I finally come inside thinking I will take her out again in half an hour or so only to find she went on the carpet. Any room she can get to, not just pooping but also peeing, and the litter box is still right there where it always was. She will be 5 months tomorrow, is this normal, this regression? What can I do?:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm not sure it's regression, or if she's just confused. After her thinking that the litter box was THE place to go, now you are telling here that there is more than one OK place to go. I don't think it's surprising that she is trying different places. You need to confine her to either a crate or at most an ex-pen until after she goes potty, whether it's in the litter box or out doors. Every time you let her get in a situation where she can pee or poop on the floor or rug, you are adding to the habit of doing it in those places. Reinforce the RIGHT habits by making it impossible for her to make a mistake.


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## Gableshavs (Jun 19, 2007)

I saw this the other day on Animal Planet. The trainer recommended in addition to confining, like Kare said, making sure that meals are scheduled twice a day at about 8 and 4pm. Then after eating it was an immediate walk. This worked.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Roscoe regressed pretty much like you said around the same age. We just had to be REALLY diligent for about 2 weeks and he has been perfect ever since


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## jag (Apr 3, 2010)

thank you all you have given me such hope. This is my first puppy experience and I have read lots of books, but really have know idea what I am doing. I am thinking we are giving her way to much freedom. Gonna make some changes this week, will keep you posted.


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## hav2 (Feb 26, 2010)

Have you tried crate training at all? She could have a little too much freedom. Having a really good routine with feeding and walking schedules is a good idea. I would also decide on one potty place from now on, she could be getting confused as to where you want her to go. Good luck and you will get it figured out!!


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## jag (Apr 3, 2010)

I know I am showing my lack of experience, but what exactly do you mean by "crate training" Izzy has a crate that she sleeps in. I am starting to think, too much freedom is the basis for our problems. We only put her in the crate at night to sleep and in the x-pen when we are eating and she has her food or if we both leave. The rest of the time she is loose and goes where she wants.I look forward to any and all advice.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jag said:


> I know I am showing my lack of experience, but what exactly do you mean by "crate training" Izzy has a crate that she sleeps in. I am starting to think, too much freedom is the basis for our problems. We only put her in the crate at night to sleep and in the x-pen when we are eating and she has her food or if we both leave. The rest of the time she is loose and goes where she wants.I look forward to any and all advice.


That's WAY too much freedom for a young, untrained puppy. You need to change the dynamic. She needs to be either in her crate or her ex-pen EXCEPT when you can supervise her closely. Even then, it should only be after she has just pottied. This is the only way she will learn where it is appropriate to go and where not.

She can spend more time out if you have the time to watch her really carefully. But if you can't pop her in her pen with some toys and a stuffed Kong to keep her busy and happy.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Karen is exactly right.

We have an ex-pen with a clear plastic chair mat under it in our living room. Most of the time, Roscoe is out hanging with us now that he is potty trustworthy. But, when he was younger, he spent most of his time in the ex-pen, unless we were actively playing with him, or he was cuddled up on the couch watching TV with us. The smaller the area, the easier it is for them to learn that as soon as they feel the "potty sensation" they need to go to their place and potty.

Every time she goes potty in the right place, give her LOTS of praise and bring her out for a play break! Even if it's just 5 minutes of play, she will associate going in the right place with getting a reward


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## waybrook (Sep 13, 2009)

We had the same issue with Panda at about 5 months. I went back to square one where she was taken outside, if she pottied she could stay out of her x-pen for 30-45 minutes. At the end of that time she was put back in the x-pen until next potty break. I used the timer on the oven to remind me when it was time for the ins and outs... If she pottied she could stay out the 30 minutes - if she didn't back into the x-pen and we went out to potty again in 30 minutes. Only by controlling her freedom did we break the cycle of pottying in the house. This worked and after about 2 weeks of no misses we extended her freedom till she is now trustworthy.


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## jag (Apr 3, 2010)

I cannot thank you all for your great advice. We have had a great week, no accidents because we took your advice and curtailed Izzy's freedom. We made her x-pen smaller and if we were not actively playing with her she goes in the pen. I take her out regularly and when she is out playing with us or snuggling I watch her to see if she is giving me signs. She is happy, we are happy, what more can you ask.I have learned so much from this forum, and there is so much more I need to learn. I don't think a truly realized the many facets to raising a puppy.


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

*Whining and Moaning*

We're having this issue with Keeper who is 6-1/2 months old and was perfect for about 5 weeks. He is trained to the potty pad and the outdoors both.
He has had an accident (peeing) on carpets (once a week ago) and once today. The potty pad was 8 feet away. He is taken out often. He had just finished eating a fairly big 'dinner' and I probably should have taken him out immediately afterwards. This behavior from a very smart puppy is hard to rationalize. As I said, whining aned moaning from me.

Shirley H.


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## susieg (Aug 28, 2009)

You've already received some great advice. But just to make you feel better... Lola was still having accidents at 5 months. You're not alone! It seemed to really click around 7 months or so.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

ShirleyH said:


> We're having this issue with Keeper who is 6-1/2 months old and was perfect for about 5 weeks. He is trained to the potty pad and the outdoors both.
> He has had an accident (peeing) on carpets (once a week ago) and once today. The potty pad was 8 feet away. He is taken out often. He had just finished eating a fairly big 'dinner' and I probably should have taken him out immediately afterwards. This behavior from a very smart puppy is hard to rationalize. As I said, whining aned moaning from me.
> 
> Shirley H.


At this age, it's still about habit, it has nothing to do with intelligence. Until, they are adults and can reason more about it, you have to remind them that they need to go when they need to go.

It has to be a very methodical approach to developing their habits until they have earned the freedom.

Funny, we also have a "Keeper".


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

*Thanks!*

Thanks for the good thought on intelligence vs. habit. I guess after a period of 5 weeks I'm thinking the 'habit' is ingrained--not so! It will get better. I've been told by breeders that Hav's are not reliable until they are a year old.

Best wishes to your Keeper.

Shirley H.


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## jag (Apr 3, 2010)

So now that I understand we were giving Izzy to much freedom and have corrected that, I would like to move on to having her on some kind of schedule. She normally poops twice in the AM fairly consistently, when she first gets up and again between 10 and 12. She will not eat in the AM, at all, nothing till at least noon, then her second feeding she will sometimes wait as late as 7 pm before she eats. There are days we take her in and out of the pen on the 30 minute rotation all afternoon and evening and she does not poop at all till the next morning. That just doesn't seem right, what am I doing wrong? She pees every few hours when we say " let's go potty", but getting her to poop sometimes just doesn't happen. I need advise Yesterday she had her lunch, took her out every 30 minutes, no go, had her supper, took her out every 30 minutes, no go. She did not poop until 5:30 am , is just doesn't seem right!


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

*Not Too Unusual*

Dear Jag,

I don't think this routine is that unusual. Keeper is not what I'd call the world's best eater and he routinely poops in the morning, once when he gets up and once about 8:30 or so when he goes to the park. He eats late in the day, and only once a day. He doesn't usually poop after his meal--once in awhile. So this routine isn't that unusual I think. Izzy is adorable.

Shirley H (Keeper's Mom)


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## jag (Apr 3, 2010)

That is so good to know, I have zero experience with a puppy. Our only other dog was an adult Beagle rescue. He had a very hard life before we got him and was only with us a little less than three years before he passed away. I wanted the best chance of a long relationship with my next dog, so I did a great deal of research on the best breed and then the best breeder I could find. So into our lives came beautiful little Izzabelle and even though I read a ton of books before we picked her up I am still unsure of myself. I really appreciate all of the great info I am receiving from this forum. How long should I continue with the routine of leaving her in the xpen and taking her out every 30 minutes in the afternoon and evening? We have a set routine in the morning that seems pretty consistent. All advice is appreciated.


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

*Izzabell*

Izzabell is just adorable first of all. I think you have to begin to judge what is working when. I worry more about the peeing than the other business. I'm assuming you're training her directly to the outside and not using a potty pad at all. If she's peeing outside at 30 minutes, you may have to keep it up awhile, otherwise why not try 40 minutes and see what that does. Also I don't think they always do their business immediately after eating. What does she do in the morning when she eats? How long does it take her to go when you take her out? I think it is trial and error and forming good habits. I have always believed puppies learn what they DO--therefore, what they are allowed to do. If you're not consistent with the 'catch and praise', the time will be much longer. Our veteranarian said in jest 'don't take your eyes off of him until he's 5 months old'. You know, I think he was exactly right!

Keeper's Mom


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## SnickersDad (Apr 9, 2010)

Hi --

Believe me when I say Snickers @ 17 weeks is about as dependable as the weather report was back in the 1950's. However, The rule our house lives by (For the past week) is --> (and already I can see a change).

Ex Pen or Crate unless she's sound asleep next to us, or, in direct line of sight. Crate is preferable to the Ex pen because the law of puppyhood is "I won't go pee or poop where I sleep - I won't - I won't - I won't" Thus keeping them confined to a known area where they won't soil makes your life easier in controlling their schedule, and that is the goal.

Snickers will be sleeping next to me, wake up, jump down off the chair, go to her Ex pen, grab a toy bring it out and play with it for 30 seconds then disappear into the kitchen with the toy in her mouth - 30 seconds later I can smell the accident. Literally when I say they need to me in your line of site at all times that's where they need to be unless they are in their crate. We allow Snickers to use the pee pad in her ex-pen, however with the frequency of her outings she's been pretty good at not needing it. Can't figure out why she'll go poop in the kitchen while she has a perfectly clean and dry pee pad in her open ex-pen...

Cheers!


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

*The Joys of Housebreaking*

Dear Snickers Dad,

Just a suggestion on the potty pad in the ex pen--take it out and put it somewhere else. We had the same problem and they really, really, really don't like this near their sleeping area. We had more luck when we moved the pad to a nearby spot outside the pen.

Also, if Snickers has a habit of running off to the kitchen with the toy and being a little dickens, go after her and pick her up and put her on her pad saying 'go potty right here' and point with your finger actually on the pad.
I do believe strongly in catching them before they do a bad thing.

Yup--this is where not taking your eyes off of them comes into play alright. Potty training will not make it to #1 on the joy list. Tom King who is a breeder responded on this subject and one of his points (a very good one) was to remind them often and place them on the pad or outside whichever you are doing. A breeder I know laughed when I complained that Keeper had an accident after 5 weeks with no accident and told me they are not reliable until one year. She's raised enough of them to know.

In the meantime, enjoy your really cute Hav.

Keeper's Mom (Shirley H)


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## jag (Apr 3, 2010)

Izzy if five months old, she came to us litter box trained at 10 weeks. We were in our motor coach in Az when we got her so we continued to use the litter box till we got home, we then slowly converted her outside only. She has not had an accident in the xpen since we made it smaller. She is doing really well I take her out every two hours but I was concerned because she would only pee in the afternoon or evening, I thought that couldn't be right. I continue to leave her in the xpen in the afternoon and evening unless we are playing with her or she is on the couch with us, I just wondered when I would be safe leaving her lose.


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

*Izzy*

Hi Jag,

I'm reading into your message that Izzy is not peeing on a pad in the x-pen.
Keeper, who is almost 7 months, can hold it all night (9 hours) without any problem, but pees a lot during the day, either outside or on his pad. I'm wondering whether you can tell when Izzy is actually 'going'. It is hard to believe that she isn't urinating sometime during the day somewhere.

Izzy will be losing baby teeth very soon and getting the big ones in. She'll be chewing anything she can find so letting her loose unless you are watching might be a safety issue for her. They do find the darndest things to chew on.
American processed rawhide is a big help. I think we found that little by little we let Keeper loose and watched him. Our vet's admonition that you keep an eye on them all the time until potty trained was a good one and absolutely right. We have no x-pen up in the living area--he is loose all the time but we are watching. He sleeps in his pen at night in our room and is very good-as long as he knows Mom is in the bedroom!

Shirley H


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## jag (Apr 3, 2010)

Shirley, thanks for your advice. I think I was confusing in the last post. In the morning Izzy is loose and with me because we have developed a pattern of going out at 5 am and 10 am to pee and poop. My concern was she doesn't poop in the afternoon or evening at all sometimes. So we keep her in the xpen and take her out every 30 minutes. I wondered if this was unusual and how long I would have to do the 30 minute thing. However thanks for bringing up the chewing. She has not chewed anything but her toys so far and I thought she was just not going to be a chewer. So much for me to learn...


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Shirley and Jim, great advice on keeping an eye on a puppy at all times when they are loose. Joyce, it might be a while before you can change your evening routine somewhat, but you will see that with how cutie pie Izzy does. What do you do with Izzy every 30 mins.? Play, take her outdoors, go for a walk, teach tricks and give treats? If you are watching her like a hawk, but she's not peeing when you take her out, I'd keep up the 30 mins. or so routine.
I don't think it's unusual of her to poop 2x in the a.m. but nothing more. 

If she is pooping at 5 a.m., that is likely due to her eating her supper later at night. If you'd like her to sleep in a bit more, try feeding her less at lunch time, then again around 5-5:30. But then, whatever routine works best for you is what you should be doing. If it's not at all convenient, then do what works.


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

*Potty Training*

Jag and Marj,

I learn lots from you guys. Jag, Izzy may never chew, but it would be unusual for a teething puppy never to chew especially when the second teeth are coming in. I've been told it hurts.

Like Marj, I do agree that twice a day pooping is okay. I'd pay more attention to whether Izzy is eating and her stools are good consistency.

Because Keeper is not a good eater and has refused to eat twice a day except on rare occasions, I am baking sweet potatoes for him and he gets a slice (warmed and mashed) in with his kibble which is Life's Abundance. He normally eats around 5-6 p.m.

Extra hugs for all the little sweeties.

Keeper's Mom (Shirley H)


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## jag (Apr 3, 2010)

(We had the same issue with Panda at about 5 months. I went back to square one where she was taken outside, if she pottied she could stay out of her x-pen for 30-45 minutes. At the end of that time she was put back in the x-pen until next potty break. I used the timer on the oven to remind me when it was time for the ins and outs... If she pottied she could stay out the 30 minutes - if she didn't back into the x-pen and we went out to potty again in 30 minutes. Only by controlling her freedom did we break the cycle of pottying in the house. This worked and after about 2 weeks of no misses we extended her freedom till she is now trustworthy.
__________________
Donna Mom to Panda)
This is the advice I have been following in the afternoon, evening. I was wondering how long I need to continue this as she just does not poop in the afternoon or evening. I just didn't know if that was normal or if I am doing something wrong. I do think I should do the light lunch and earlier supper as I don't really like the 5 am wake up call. And when we are in the RV I will not be able to just run outside with her in my PJ's. We have not had an accident in the house for some time, so really things are going pretty good, thanks to all the great advice I am getting.


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## IslandLady (Nov 7, 2010)

marjrc said:


> If she is pooping at 5 a.m., that is likely due to her eating her supper later at night. If you'd like her to sleep in a bit more, try feeding her less at lunch time, then again around 5-5:30. But then, whatever routine works best for you is what you should be doing. If it's not at all convenient, then do what works.


I know this is an old thread, but I'm very intrigued by your advice about feeding dinner earlier. We were thinking that if we fed her dinner later, she'd be more likely to sleep longer. Right now, she gets a light lunch and then dinner at about 6 pm.

For the first few weeks with us, Chica was waking up to pee and sometimes poop at 3 am. Now it's usually 5 or even 5:30 am.

But 6:30 am would be even better!


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