# Crazy episodes



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

Not sure why, but Ted has crazy episodes sometimes that can be called nothing but aggressive. Its always when he is on leash and mostly in our backyard.For some reason he doesn't do it in the front yard. He will stop at nothing to wrap himself around my legs and bite and growl and bark. I always carry a stick for him to chew on or try and engage him in a come and sit (which he mastered quite easily) with treats to get his attention. I went over some of the other threads about aggressive behaviour and started to growl at him when he won't stop but tonight he wouldn't stop. He came with giardia and meds for it when we got him. Could this be affecting his behaviour at all? When Ted isn't in one of these moods, he's great. Soft mouthing and following me around everywhere. He cuddles in my hand when I carry him around. I have also started hand feeding him and limiting his toys that are out and only giving them to him when I decide he can have one. I have noticed that its usually happening when he is due for a poo. Anybody having the same type of craziness. This is not crazy time for sure. He is booked for training starting July 31 since I had to cancel his lessons when we got him because of the parasites. Ted is going to be a therapy dog. I need to nip this in the bud. He was born April 23rd so he is 11 weeks old.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeah Lise , the last thing you want to do is growl back. Not sure whether it would be health related. Probably just typical puppy biting and nipping. Here's some info on it. http://www.clickertraining.com/node/3249


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

I thought the growling back was part of what I read from one of the breeders on one of the threads.Thanks for the above link, I have read that a few times now. Just so you know, I have brought up wonderfully behaved dogs in the past. My dogs were trained right away at a young age and grew up to be wonderful adults. I cant for the life of me remember any of them presentng themselves this aggressively while a pup. There was a lot of nipping and biting but not with the same fervor. If he hadn't had this darn parasite he would have had his second class already. I train with him everyday each time we go out and a few times in the house. I wish I could bring him out to more places but its not fair to other peoples dogs until i get the ok and he will get his 12 week shots also in another week. I will stop growling, although hes not convinced that I am anyhow! lol


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

lise said:


> I thought the growling back was part of what I read from one of the breeders on one of the threads.Thanks for the above link, I have read that a few times now. Just so you know, I have brought up wonderfully behaved dogs in the past. My dogs were trained right away at a young age and grew up to be wonderful adults. I cant for the life of me remember any of them presentng themselves this aggressively while a pup. There was a lot of nipping and biting but not with the same fervor. If he hadn't had this darn parasite he would have had his second class already. I train with him everyday each time we go out and a few times in the house. I wish I could bring him out to more places but its not fair to other peoples dogs until i get the ok and he will get his 12 week shots also in another week. I will stop growling, although hes not convinced that I am anyhow! lol


Growling at dogs gets you bit. Who knows whether the health concerns are over with. Health issues can cause aggressive actions. Keep in mind every dog is different. Some hardly ever nip. And that' s not a good thing either. Especially with humans . You want a dog to nip to a degree so you can help teach him human bite inhibition. Talk to your trainer. I'm sure they will tell you it's not OK to growl at him, if they do find another trainer.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Growling is good. Myth no. 8 http://4pawsu.com/k9myths.html


----------



## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Your puppy is only 11 weeks old, many puppy's nip and bite, just as children they try to push the limits, you just need to gently redirect your puppy or ignore your puppy and walk away. Each dog is different and each breed is different. No growling or staring, it is just puppy play, it's early days and you can gently redirect this in a short time.


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

As I said above, I won't growl. |It was on a thread in this forum that it was recommended. Before yesterday when I read that, we were doing what the breeder had said and that was to say "ouch"and to do lots of mouth work which I have been doing. Ted is quite fine with me doing it. He has a very soft mouth 90% of the time. Its just that 10% when he goes a little crazy.My trainer uses only positive training with treats. The trainer never said anything to me about this. I haven't had a class yet. I will try the "tree" method tomorrow and continue with his training. He is not liking "down" so we are now working on "give a paw". I will leave the down to the trainer to teach us, so I get it right for Ted. I have gone through the above articles and will rered them a few more times. Thanks for the help. Ted and I will keep working at it til I can get him to the trainers.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Keep working on it Lise , here is another article on biting . http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/teaching-bite-inhibition


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

Thanks for that article too. I think I favorited them all when I first heard of Teds arrival. I went to the thread where all the info for new puppy owners was and read everything I could get my hands on. Maybe I have over done it! No, really, I think I have done a really good job with his expen and his crate. I think because of the heat, Ted himself has chosen for now to sleep in the kitchen which is fine with me. He is doing pretty well with potty training with any accidents being ours! We are both enjoying the process of training commands as Ted thoroughly loves to do anything for a treat. He actually comes right up to me the second he pees because he knows he's getting one! He was very good with my grandsons when they slept over the other night. I am hoping to introduce him to other dogs next week after his second shots and an ok from the vet rearasites I will keep working with him and be a "tree" when we are outside when this happens. I will make sure to turn around in the process. Thanks


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Lise you nailed it when you said " He is doing pretty well with potty training with any accidents being ours! " Exactly , dogs don't make mistakes. They only do what's natural for them. . Lise , you'll do fine. Your eagerness to learn will put you on firm ground. Love your enthusiasm.


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

Thanks, I'm in it for the long haul. My hubby and I don't feel our home is complete unless there is a dog in it and Ted is it! I think I'm just panicking a bit because I want so much for him to be a therapy dog so we can give joy to those that need it. My other dogs were just our family dogs to love! Ted needs to be loved by many!


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

lise said:


> Thanks, I'm in it for the long haul. My hubby and I don't feel our home is complete unless there is a dog in it and Ted is it! I think I'm just panicking a bit because I want so much for him to be a therapy dog so we can give joy to those that need it. My other dogs were just our family dogs to love! Ted needs to be loved by many!


I hear ya. Just remember dogs pick up on our behavior ,so keep cool as a cucumber and everything will work out. Keep all learning fun. Nothing in my opinion can top the joy of a therapy dog and all those smiling faces . Good for you. :yo::angel:


----------



## J and Paul Anka (May 6, 2012)

PA has had episodes like this in the yard too! If he gets overexcited about something he gets to be what seems to be really aggressive and will have me hopping to get away from him. The best way I have found to deal with it in my situation is to ignore it. It is a huge attention getting thing in my case so ignoring it is a huge deal! Redirecting works ok once he has settled but I have found any attention at all ramps him up, so I will just walk away from him. I will throw is leash over something and walk out of reach and wait for him to settle and then approach as many times as it takes to get him to calm down. In the house I will walk into another room and close the door. 

Also another thing, my brothers played really rowdy with him when we first got him, including growling at him so now he will growl in a play bow. He rumbles a little when he plays and it is completely benign, as far as his actually temperament goes. Just think about if you or your family have encouraged any vocalization because that may be it as well. Just my experiences. Paul is 5 months now and coming along beautifully from 10 weeks when I had similar problems.


----------



## Sparkle (May 17, 2012)

Hi, Lise. Kallie is becoming more agressive also, wanting to nip/bite/mouth constantly. This seemed to start about 2 days ago. I quickly replace my hand with a chewtoy. But I just noticed some new teeth this morning. I've seen her more "grumpy" the past couple of days. I really think teething at this point is causing the majority of the issue.

But I think part of your question was that Ted's aggression seems to be only in the back yard, and when he needs to poo. Could it be possible that his leash is too short, and he wants more space from you to do his business? I saw that in our Maltese. She would never potty close to us, always wanted to be a little distance away. I called it needing her privacy. And I see Kallie doing the same thing. Always goes about 10' away from me to potty.


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

*Excited*



J and Paul Anka said:


> PA has had episodes like this in the yard too! If he gets overexcited about something he gets to be what seems to be really aggressive and will have me hopping to get away from him. The best way I have found to deal with it in my situation is to ignore it. It is a huge attention getting thing in my case so ignoring it is a huge deal! Redirecting works ok once he has settled but I have found any attention at all ramps him up, so I will just walk away from him. I will throw is leash over something and walk out of reach and wait for him to settle and then approach as many times as it takes to get him to calm down. In the house I will walk into another room and close the door.
> 
> Also another thing, my brothers played really rowdy with him when we first got him, including growling at him so now he will growl in a play bow. He rumbles a little when he plays and it is completely benign, as far as his actually temperament goes. Just think about if you or your family have encouraged any vocalization because that may be it as well. Just my experiences. Paul is 5 months now and coming along beautifully from 10 weeks when I had similar problems.


I thank you as Teds behaviour sounds very much like that when he is crazy! I will for sure try and find something to attach his leash too so I can walk away outside. That is where almost all of this happens. We are not very vocal (loud) with him at all.Because of what I want to do with him I am quite the opposite. Before yesterday we were just saying "ouch" when he bit too hard. We only "growled" for a day. I was saying no when he was crazy then in my usual normal voice trying to redirect him. I think smarty pants is just overexcited like you said. I also tried this morning bringing him for a walk down the road. He enjoyed all the sights and smells and was too busy to get "crazy" I'm walking with confidence today that I can help us thru this!


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

*Leash*



Sparkle said:


> Hi, Lise. Kallie is becoming more agressive also, wanting to nip/bite/mouth constantly. This seemed to start about 2 days ago. I quickly replace my hand with a chewtoy. But I just noticed some new teeth this morning. I've seen her more "grumpy" the past couple of days. I really think teething at this point is causing the majority of the issue.
> 
> But I think part of your question was that Ted's aggression seems to be only in the back yard, and when he needs to poo. Could it be possible that his leash is too short, and he wants more space from you to do his business? I saw that in our Maltese. She would never potty close to us, always wanted to be a little distance away. I called it needing her privacy. And I see Kallie doing the same thing. Always goes about 10' away from me to potty.


He is on a short leash because that is what the trainer wants us to bring to class. I have a longer one from my previous dog. Thanks I will try that as usually its just before he poos that he goes "crazy"


----------



## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

This may sound stupid, but is it possible he is trying to RLH? The first time Piper did it she was running around snarling and growling like a little wolf and I was shocked by it because I had no idea what it was. Now I love it when she does it, I just move out of the way


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lise said:


> As I said above, I won't growl. |It was on a thread in this forum that it was recommended. Before yesterday when I read that, we were doing what the breeder had said and that was to say "ouch"and to do lots of mouth work which I have been doing. Ted is quite fine with me doing it. He has a very soft mouth 90% of the time. Its just that 10% when he goes a little crazy.My trainer uses only positive training with treats. The trainer never said anything to me about this. I haven't had a class yet. I will try the "tree" method tomorrow and continue with his training. He is not liking "down" so we are now working on "give a paw". I will leave the down to the trainer to teach us, so I get it right for Ted. I have gone through the above articles and will rered them a few more times. Thanks for the help. Ted and I will keep working at it til I can get him to the trainers.


Hi Lise, you have to be very careful reading threads here. There is a lot of really good information, with a sprinkling of really BAD "information" sprinkled in. One thing I've learned over my years here is that SOME (not all, by any means) of the breeders my be very good at breeding dogs, but I would NEVER take training advice from them. Other breeders are excellent, all-round dog people, who keep up to date on scientifically proven, state of the art training methods AS WELL as breeding wonderful puppies.

It sounds like, except for the growl, you are doing just what you should to discourage Ted's out-of-bounds behavior. When Kodi was a puppy, he was never bitey or growly, but he DID have totally off the wall crazy times, which included non-stop barking. He reminded me of a toddler who had become overwound. In these instances, if I couldn't redirect him, I gently picked him up and put him in his ex-pen on COMPLETE ignore. Just like my toddlers, he often had a burst of further protest, then fell SOUND asleep... Over tired puppy.


----------



## Rene831 (Mar 25, 2012)

Charly was a mess when we got her at 12 wks old. She had Giardia along with other things! She started on meds 2 days later. All I noticed was her getting well and having more puppy energy. I know dogs are different but just wanted to address the question.
If your longer leash doesn't work I have a suggestion. They make really long training leashes for distance work. Petsmart sells them. You could just use it for Poo duty if he needs more space. They are so long he could do the RLH or fetch as a distraction.


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

*RLH*



Rene831 said:


> Charly was a mess when we got her at 12 wks old. She had Giardia along with other things! She started on meds 2 days later. All I noticed was her getting well and having more puppy energy. I know dogs are different but just wanted to address the question.
> If your longer leash doesn't work I have a suggestion. They make really long training leashes for distance work. Petsmart sells them. You could just use it for Poo duty if he needs more space. They are so long he could do the RLH or fetch as a distraction.


No Ted has his RLH in the evening in the house. Its hilarious and we also stay out of his way while he RLHound:


----------



## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Pipersmom said:


> This may sound stupid, but is it possible he is trying to RLH? The first time Piper did it she was running around snarling and growling like a little wolf and I was shocked by it because I had no idea what it was. Now I love it when she does it, I just move out of the way


That' exactly what I was thinking... he wants to be free to RLH.


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

I mixed up the quotes but just to say, so far today I have used my old leash which Ted seems to like. When he sees that I am fa,r he actually runs to my side. He did start the craziness once and I just said ouch and turned and walked away from him. I decided just to drop the leash because I have 25 ft to be able to go after. He stopped and came back quiet within few seconds. I had to stop this thread as he took some tape off of the bottom of our couch and had it stuck to his chest. I was able to get most of it off and the poor dude ended up with a quick bath to get the rest off! That tuckered him out, he's resting in his pen now!


----------



## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

When Brody was little he'd always go nuts right after having a poop. He'd zoom all over the place, growling and RLH. It was hilarious. It was only after a poop though, not before.


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

*Before*



misstray said:


> When Brody was little he'd always go nuts right after having a poop. He'd zoom all over the place, growling and RLH. It was hilarious. It was only after a poop though, not before.


He is definately a before poop puppy.So far today has been much better tho!


----------



## angiern2004 (Apr 24, 2011)

I was going to say maybe he wants to have more room to do the zoomies before his poop? Zoomies are like the brisk walk from one spot to another to another to another to find a spot. 

Even if he RLH's in the house at night, it's possible he could want other RLH sessions too. Trooper RLH's most nights in the house, like Ted, but if we let him outside, sometimes he'll RLH out there too, sometimes before doing his business, sometimes after, and it doesn't matter time of day for those episodes.

Just thinking...don't rule out the RLH possibility...they don't necessarily RLH ONLY once a day. 

My last thought is that maybe he's overtired? Does he get a lot of naps? Does he sleep a lot of the morning? Does this happen at the same time of day everyday? Does he do it after he's been awake awhile? I only ask because we had mouthiness issues (sometimes extreme mouthiness) and we determined he was overtired and overstimulated, that he wasn't getting enough naps. That didn't take too long to figure out, LOL!!! The extreme mouthiness stopped almost instantly and we had to work on the regular mouthiness over time. Try to see how these episodes correlate with whether he's napped recently or not.

Whatever it is, hang in there! Whatever it is, it's probably a phase. My very mouthy/bitey Trooper is now a very lick-happy Trooper. LOL. I'll take the lick lick licking any day over the biting!


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

*Cranky*



angiern2004 said:


> I was going to say maybe he wants to have more room to do the zoomies before his poop? Zoomies are like the brisk walk from one spot to another to another to another to find a spot.
> 
> Even if he RLH's in the house at night, it's possible he could want other RLH sessions too. Trooper RLH's most nights in the house, like Ted, but if we let him outside, sometimes he'll RLH out there too, sometimes before doing his business, sometimes after, and it doesn't matter time of day for those episodes.
> 
> ...


I was thinking that Ted is usually cranky when the craziness starts. He doesn't usually go poop until before naptime and sometimes not til after a nap. He is on a pretty good schedule which is pretty constant. He naps from 8:30 am til about 11:00 am and again about 12:30-1:00 til about 4:45. Evenings are a little hit and miss. His final bedtime is any time after 10:00 and he sleeps all night til 5:45-6:00am I think then that he is getting enough sleep.
I too think this is a phase, I just needed to hear from other Hav owners that some had gone through the same thing. Havs are supposed to be such a friendly breed that I thought I had done something wrong and couldn't figure out what it was. I had done so much research on the breed since 2006! I really felt I was doing everything right but Ted seems so cranky when he gets in these moods I feel like I'm not hearing what he wants and he is frustrated with me. Me thinks that I think too much.:crazy:


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

I want to thank all of you for your kind words and good ideas. I just want to do right by Ted and you have all helped me to figure out that Ted is just going through a phase and most of the things I'm doing are the right thing. We will be just fine.....soon


----------



## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Extendable leads are great,if you have to keep your pup on a lead whilst outside, or during pooping sessions as they can go off a long way in complete safety.


----------



## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

Mig was a very mean little guy when we brought him home, lots of behavioral issues, and bit several of us and the vet. Long story short, he got progressively better and is now the sweetest, most loving and sensitive dog ever.


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

*Extendable lead*



clare said:


> Extendable leads are great,if you have to keep your pup on a lead whilst outside, or during pooping sessions as they can go off a long way in complete safety.


The lead I have is not extendable. Its just a very long leash. When we go off the property I use a short leash. I live on almost an acre of land so thats when I use the long one so Ted can run around. We are not fenced in and I don't trust him at all not to run to the river or after some of the resident ducks!
I personally don't like extendable leads. So many people I encountered through the years while walking my other dogs didn't seem to have control of their dogs at all! I can whip up the line in seconds on the long leash if need be, although my developement only has 2 streets not much in the way of activity.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lise said:


> The lead I have is not extendable. Its just a very long leash. When we go off the property I use a short leash. I live on almost an acre of land so thats when I use the long one so Ted can run around. We are not fenced in and I don't trust him at all not to run to the river or after some of the resident ducks!
> I personally don't like extendable leads. So many people I encountered through the years while walking my other dogs didn't seem to have control of their dogs at all! I can whip up the line in seconds on the long leash if need be, although my developement only has 2 streets not much in the way of activity.


I agree with you about extendable leads for walks, but I also think they can be a good way to give the dog a little needed room (and sometimes privacy) for pottying. Kodi is on a normal 6' lead for walks, but we do use a flexi for potty runs in the evening. He really doesn't like to poop right at our feet, and even though he has been praised for going poop every day of his life, he still gets that "Am I doing something wrong?" look on his face if you are right near him when he poops. Give him a little more room on the flexi, and he is clearly more comfortable.


----------



## BennyBoy (Apr 25, 2012)

My mom's Havanese and mine both do, what we call, "Rah!" For no reason at all, they just go running around growling and barking and just going crazy! Not every day, but when the mood strikes. 

They are both just playing and it passes in about 2 minutes when they get it out of their system. No harm done. Actually, I find it quite entertaining!


----------



## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

The lead I use is either 20 or 25 feet. I let him go the whole length at his favorite poop places.Ted then has his privacy!lol He has about 3 favorite places to go. I also let the lead go sometimes as he thinks I'm still holding it.


----------

