# Heeling help!



## Chi-Chi's Mom (Dec 10, 2015)

I'm having trouble luring Chi Chi into heeling position. Once there, her focus is great and her take-off is good. We are only taking one step. But it takes a LONG time to get her into position. I just can't seem to communicate what I'd like her to do.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Chi-Chi's Mom said:


> I'm having trouble luring Chi Chi into heeling position. Once there, her focus is great and her take-off is good. We are only taking one step. But it takes a LONG time to get her into position. I just can't seem to communicate what I'd like her to do.


Can you post a video of what you're doing? I'll try to find some video of me starting my guys heeling. It's a bit tricky maneuvering your hand, but once you get the hang of it, it's EASY to get the puppy there.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

I used a clicker with Leo and Rex. Started by clicking and treating if they got close to position and over time not clicking and treating until they were in "proper" heel position. Once they got so they would maintain heel position with attention on me I stretched out the time between clicks and treats. Now sometimes they get a treat and sometimes praise. I use real meat for treats which are high value and help keep them interested. I also use my voice to keep them engaged. That said we have no plans for competition so I don't have to worry about them heeling without me talking to them or using treats.


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## Chi-Chi's Mom (Dec 10, 2015)

krandall said:


> Can you post a video of what you're doing? I'll try to find some video of me starting my guys heeling. It's a bit tricky maneuvering your hand, but once you get the hang of it, it's EASY to get the puppy there. [/QUOTE
> I will try to get some video. I watched some Denise Fenzi tutorials but for some reason it just looks so much easier with big dogs. That would be great if you find some that you have done. Thanks!


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## Chi-Chi's Mom (Dec 10, 2015)

Pucks104 said:


> I used a clicker with Leo and Rex. Started by clicking and treating if they got close to position and over time not clicking and treating until they were in "proper" heel position. Once they got so they would maintain heel position with attention on me I stretched out the time between clicks and treats. Now sometimes they get a treat and sometimes praise. I use real meat for treats which are high value and help keep them interested. I also use my voice to keep them engaged. That said we have no plans for competition so I don't have to worry about them heeling without me talking to them or using treats.


We weren't using clicker in class but I got it out this morning. I will try clicking in increments. Thanks!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I use a clicker A LOT in training, but not for heeling. I would need one more hand than I have available.  We also start with "chin heeling". It's back-breaking with little dogs, but you can get fantastic results even with very short periods of chin heeling (just 10 cookies at a time!) and then fade it to Denise Fenzi's pocket hand. Denise's method is not that difficult, even with little dogs, once they understand pocket hand. They just adjust to the fact that your hand is over them instead of against their muzzle.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Here is a sequence that shows a variety of heeling, chin heeling, pocket hand and a bit of luring:











I can't find a close-up of getting the set-up, but my son said he'd video for me in about 20 minutes!


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## Chi-Chi's Mom (Dec 10, 2015)

Yep. Chin heeling looks back-breaking but I can see how it is gets results. I noticed that Panda will sometimes remove her chin. So I'm guessing you're not forcing her muzzle to your shin? What is too tight of a grip?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

OK, here's the one my son just helped me do of what we call "wiggle wiggle" to teach heel position and then some pocket hand. I didn't repeat the chin heeling, because I think you can get a pretty good look at that from the video I posted previously.:






I know these look tedious and back-breaking, but believe me, they lead to beautiful, secure heeling, with no wandering, if you're willing to put in the work. I didn't learn this way with Kodi... typical on-leash, try to keep his attention on me classes. As a result, I dealt with a lot of LEAVING me once the leash was off. Both Pixel and Panda have learned to heel STRICTLY without a leash. They have just learned that staying there pays... handsomely.  As a result, they both have had BEAUTIFUL heeling from a very young age, with no wandering. Yes, to do Novice, _I_ will have to put a leash on them and practice my leash handling skills again so I don't interfere with them (Kodi is at the level that he's never on leash in the ring) but the leash will be superfluous to them... not something that restricts or controls them in any way.


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## Layla's Mom (Feb 1, 2016)

krandall said:


> Here is a sequence that shows a variety of heeling, chin heeling, pocket hand and a bit of luring:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great videos, Karen, thanks! I've never heard of chin or pocket heeling, but think I might go back and do a little pocket heeling work with Layla, as reinforcement. Is the pocket heeling a technique that Denise Fenzi uses? Do you know if she has videos? Panda is absolutely the cutest little girl and that tail is adorable! What a great temperament! I could watch her all day :wink2:


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## Chi-Chi's Mom (Dec 10, 2015)

Layla's Mom said:


> Great videos, Karen, thanks! I've never heard of chin or pocket heeling, but think I might go back and do a little pocket heeling work with Layla, as reinforcement. Is the pocket heeling a technique that Denise Fenzi uses? Do you know if she has videos? Panda is absolutely the cutest little girl and that tail is adorable! What a great temperament! I could watch her all day :wink2:


I found one on her blog by googling Denise Fenzi pocket hand


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## Chi-Chi's Mom (Dec 10, 2015)

krandall said:


> OK, here's the one my son just helped me do of what we call "wiggle wiggle" to teach heel position and then some pocket hand. I didn't repeat the chin heeling, because I think you can get a pretty good look at that from the video I posted previously.:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Karen and Panda , Thanks so much for taking the time to do this! Can't wait to get home and work on it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Layla's Mom said:


> Great videos, Karen, thanks! I've never heard of chin or pocket heeling, but think I might go back and do a little pocket heeling work with Layla, as reinforcement. Is the pocket heeling a technique that Denise Fenzi uses? Do you know if she has videos? Panda is absolutely the cutest little girl and that tail is adorable! What a great temperament! I could watch her all day :wink2:


Chin heeling is from my instructor, Esther Zimmerman (an AKC obedience judge). As far as I know, she invented it. But around the same time, Denise (who happens also to be friends with Esther, and who has come to teach at our training center several times) started teaching Pocket Hand. The two go together really nicely. Chin heeling is intensive, but puts the puppy RIGHT where s/he needs to be until it becomes habit. Pocket hand allows you to fade that cue to something less and less obvious, as the dog learns.

Yes, Denise has TONS of videos, and she works with a small dog, Brito, as well as with her Tervs. If you aren't signed up already, sign up for her blog. It's free, and there is TONS of information there. The online class's through FDSA are great too, and if you sign up for even one at Bronze level (auditing) you can get onto the FSDA alumni FB page, where we have FANTASTIC discussions about non-punishing (I know Denise doesn't like the term "positive", because NO training can be pure positive... The moment you withhold a click or a cookie, it is no longer pure positive) methods of working with dogs... Mostly obedience people, but also lots of agility people, people who like trick training, Barn Hunt, Nose Work, you name it. And it is a VERY positive place for humans too... Denise makes sure that humans are treated just as gently and respectfully as the dogs. 

Thanks for the kind words about Panda. She's a really good puppy... Bouncy and upbeat, and at the same time WANTS to work with you. Tonight she retrieved her dumbbell (short distance) for the first time!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Chi-Chi's Mom said:


> Karen and Panda , Thanks so much for taking the time to do this! Can't wait to get home and work on it.


You're welcome! I love pretty, happy heeling SO much that I'm happy to help other people establish that connection with their dogs... It's like dancing!


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## Layla's Mom (Feb 1, 2016)

Karen, why in the chin heeling video did your instructor have you stop with your right foot forward? And I found Denise's blog, Thanks.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Layla's Mom said:


> Karen, why in the chin heeling video did your instructor have you stop with your right foot forward? And I found Denise's blog, Thanks.


Because, eventually, you want feet together to become the cue for the dog to halt/sit in heel position. You can't tell them to sit in competition without incurring 3 points for an extra command. So, once that understand to sit at halts while heeling, if you decide to reward them for something during heeling, you don't WANT them to sit. (In the dog's mind, you are rewarding the last thing they did, so if you let them sit and then deliver the reward, you are reinforcing the sit,,not the heeling.

At the point when that video was done, she didn't have a CLUE about sitting at halts (she still needs help  ) so it was more a reminder for me. 

It just so happens that we ended up working on set-ups during our class tonight. Here's a video of what we were doing:


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## Layla's Mom (Feb 1, 2016)

That make sense! All your videos today have been so helpful! Thanks so much for sharing :smile2:


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## whata_dog (Sep 10, 2015)

Great videos- thanks for posting Karen! 
I watched over them today- and had my pup watch them too- which she did with great interest I'll have you know! 
She is soooo eager to please and I wanted to make sure I was doing this right. 
I thought wth am I doing wrong- she keeps jumping up while heeling , but I see Panda did it too in the early stages! lol 
So I suppose I am on the right track. 
The hand positions are helpful for sure... my trainer (whose class I finished already) just had me lure with the treat around in a U shape to get her in position.
Which worked only a few times, then she just looked at me from the front like "yeah now what?' treat please " We only touched upon heel on the last class. So 
I couldn't address it. I think I am going to try a different training place next go round.


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## Chi-Chi's Mom (Dec 10, 2015)

I too watch these repeatedly. Doing the little wiggle wiggle move worked great. Her trainer marvels at how much she has improved and then...... I stepped on her foot last week. Now when I move her into position, she will take a quick step to the left. :crying: Now waiting for her to trust me again.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yes, heeling, if you are doing competitive work, is something you work on for a life time. If you are NOT looking to do competitive stuff, though, you really should be working on loose leash walking rather than formal heeling. Formal heeling is strenuous, both physically and mentally for the dog, and even in competition, we don't ask the dog to keep it up for more than a couple of minutes at most. 

Loose leash walking is more appropriate for casual walking with your dog. Both kinds of walking need practice!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Chi-Chi's Mom said:


> I too watch these repeatedly. Doing the little wiggle wiggle move worked great. Her trainer marvels at how much she has improved and then...... I stepped on her foot last week. Now when I move her into position, she will take a quick step to the left. :crying: Now waiting for her to trust me again.


Awww, poor puppy! These things do happen, though. She'll get over it. One of the things you can do to get her to get in tighter is to step right, away from her, as you ask for the set up and also while heeling. This tends to make them try harder to pull in close to you. Reward LOTS for any effort on her part to get in closer. You'll get it back!


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## articshark (Apr 4, 2016)

I'm not sure why my click bright me to this thread. lol Sorry.


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## Bowie's Mom (Oct 1, 2016)

Great videos and tips! I've been training Bowie everyday, but will start the heeling process. I'm just using treats, chicken and carrots, in really small pieces. Anyone using a clicker and how do you like it?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Bowie's Mom said:


> Great videos and tips! I've been training Bowie everyday, but will start the heeling process. I'm just using treats, chicken and carrots, in really small pieces. Anyone using a clicker and how do you like it?


I think most people serious about training use a clicker for at least some things. It is probably not the best tool for training heeling, however.

Are you interested in competition obedience? If not, you really don't need or want to teach formal heeling, which is strenuous for the dog, and is not maintained for more than short periods of time. If you want a pet dog to walk with you nicely, you really want to teach loose leash walking rather than heeling... a different skill, and one that is important for comoetition dogs to learn too!


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## Bowie's Mom (Oct 1, 2016)

Thanks Karen ~ haven't really thought about competition obedience...I'll do the loose leash walking for now. I'm thinking that's just having Bowie walk on my left side as I try not to let him pull out ahead of me? Any treats given?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Bowie's Mom said:


> Thanks Karen ~ haven't really thought about competition obedience...I'll do the loose leash walking for now. I'm thinking that's just having Bowie walk on my left side as I try not to let him pull out ahead of me? Any treats given?


If it's pet-type walking, it really doesn't matter which side... your choice. I like to have my dogs be willing to walk on either side, because when we're on the edge of the street (and we don't have sidewalks) I want me between them and the traffic.

Here's my favorite way to start teaching LLW: 




...and YES, you use LOTS of cookies to begin with. Just make sure you are REWARDING good leash behavior, not using the cookies as a lure.


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