# Lurkers, Fence-sitters , Spiders , Whatever



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I've always wondered how we have so many "guests /visitors " on the Havanese Forum. I can understand how some people just want to watch and not join in. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm a lurker when it comes to car racing. We all have our reasons for not joining in, and I think dog people are as varied a group as any. One thing I do think ,(and I'm definitely biased), is that I think "dog" people are some of the most accommodating , warm hearted, and caring people around. 
So when I see three times as many spectators as participants , I wonder why. Whether to join in, is a personal decision for sure. And we certainly don't want to force someone into getting their feet wet. Just like with dogs, we shouldn't use flooding as a method to acclimating. 
Now with two Havanese lists/forums we have even more to choose from. I just hope that people are not influenced by the politics of belonging to one group over another , or are afraid to join one group or another based on what others might think. The important thing in my opinion is getting involved , whether it be on this forum or Havanese Talk , or whether it is on both. This decision should not involve bull**** politics . It is supposed to be ABOUT THE DOGS. Whether we are here or there, shouldn't matter. 
The only reason I personally do not belong to both groups , is because I simply do not have the time. Maybe when I retire. LOL . We simply should be eager to learn and share. One reason why I think it's important to get involved and join in sort of speak ,is because we need to ask questions, and we need to give some input so that the questions we have can be answered with some sort of accuracy. It's fine to listen to others talk about separation anxiety, but we should not think that our dog is in the same situation as the one being talked about. 
And I strongly recommend new and first time Havanese owners to join in and ask those questions BEFORE problems arise and not wait until it's much harder to resolve. Like Ian Dunbar mentions, dog training is binary, we need input before we know how to help. So do get involved , we learn by doing not by watching. My wife keeps telling me this when it comes to my fear of computers. ound:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm diffidently not just a looker. As a matter of fact I found this forum by googleing Grooming a havanese. I got stuck for a while because my request to join went to Spam.
The one thing I can say and I hope I don't cause problems is . I think sometimes we have way to many harsh opinions here compared to Havanese Talk. I feel safer expressing and asking for certain help. Like breeding question because of the awful way I was treated when I asked the question can a breeder really control.
There are too many folks that feel do it there way or the highway so to speak. I am totally afraid to talk about that stuff here. God forbid if I had a litter of puppys with out my Hav being a champion. I was even told no breeder would let me come to their house to help welp and learn. Now I'm afraid to even ask. I guess I'm just venting. But I think our forum could try to see more than one side.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

thanks for your opinion Suzi. Although I think you might be generalizing.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

I lurked for a long time before joining while I was doing my research on the breed. Really, I only joined so I could see the pictures because I needed to see them! I had no intention of actually posting stuff.

It's amazing how often this forum pops up when I do a google search on something I'm trying to find out about for my lil guy.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

glad you took the plunge, we need more Canucks too. LOL :canada:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

davetgabby said:


> thanks for your opinion Suzi. Although I think you might be generalizing.


 Well I don't really know what you mean by generalizing? I guess I have always had a hard time expressing my self.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Suzi said:


> Well I don't really know what you mean by generalizing? I guess I have always had a hard time expressing my self.


 What I meant is that although you found something here to be hurtful it came across as being directed at the forum as a whole.


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## Trixie (Oct 9, 2010)

I can offer some thoughts to, perhaps, consider, based on my personal experience, having just begun posting myself:

1. some people possibly come to 'just read' the board because they are looking for specific information, possibly for a problem or curiosity that they have, (whether to do with behavior, grooming, diet, etc.) They don't necessarily want to 'join in' into being an active part of an online community, but they need help. So they read about other's experiences.
For myself, personally, although I joined the forum about a year or so ago, (I think), I actually never posted because I never came here UNLESS I wanted to find some specific dog-related information, AND as my dog is very young, I spent most of my time in these last two years outside, or somewhere, actually DOING stuff with my dog, and less time sitting in front of a computer keyboard.

2. I agree with some of what Suzi has posted, in that these couple statements resonated with me also:
"I think sometimes we have way too many harsh opinions..."
"There are too many folks that feel do it their way or the highway so to speak."
I've read quite a few threads on this forum, way before I've chosen to post. And I have to say, I was a little apprehensive, because I've read some posts that have seemed harsher than necessary. I've also been apprehensive :behindsofa: since I don't have a pedigree Havanese with papers, am not a part of AKC, nor is my girl the perfect 'standard'. (since my girl is a Satin.) But I love her, just the same. 

(to stray off topic for a moment....)
And actually, SOMEONE has to give a loving home to these wonderful lil' pups, ....that some others (negatively) term as "defective", simply because the growth of their coat is different. (It reminds me of eugenics & elitism, and not in a good way.) I mean, the dogs didn't ask to be born. 
When I acquired my Trixie, we believe that such a perception is what very possibly led to her mother being dumped at a shelter pregnant. The shelter & rescue group believed that Trixie's mother had very possibly come from a breeding situation, where possibly, she had previously produced a litter with some short haired pups in it. Her "owner" had unceremoniously brought her into the shelter, held only by her two front legs, placed her on the floor and declared, "she's pregnant and I don't want her." And left.

(but back to the topic...)
I think a lot of the internet, in general, provides an easy forum for (some) people to be extremely judgmental & non-compassionate, from behind the somewhat anonymous safety of their computer keyboard. I think that many, are not even aware of what they are doing, nor how their few typed words can be very hurtful to others. And the written word, can, very easily, be misinterpreted, (since in the English language, usage & meaning is often not 'specific'. When spoken, we heavily rely on audio inflection & tone, AND physical expressions & cues,... to infer greater meaning with what we are trying to express. Most of that, gets lost on the internet.) And especially, when some respond quickly, sometimes in a knee-jerk fashion, without careful forethought of how what he/she is offering may be interpreted by the reader. (Whenever I can, I tend to re-read what I've written, to see just how it comes across. But I think that there are many people who possibly don't do that.

3. Now having said that, I've also read quite a many lovely posts on this site, full of lots of support & kindness. 

4. I wasn't even aware that there is some other Havanese forum.

5. And I hope that nothing that I have written has been interpreted as harsh, or judgmental, for neither is intended. Just a very open, sharing of thoughts. As I, also welcome, the compassionate sharing of the thoughts of others


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Interesting, Suzi. People sure can see things differently, huh? I've felt that this forum was much more liberal than HT.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sheri said:


> Interesting, Suzi. People sure can see things differently, huh? I've felt that this forum was much more liberal than HT.


Me too.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Pamela , thanks , I agree with a lot of what you say. With the internet ,we have to take the bad with the good sometimes. No matter what forum you go on you will always find things you don't like. Thanks for sharing. Hope you stick around this time, enjoy your perspectives.


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## Ricolove (Aug 28, 2011)

In regards to certain topics, I get more of an, "I/We would do it this way but..." type of feeling at HT, but here at HF, more of an, "This is how it's done, period." Which is why, in the limited time since I have found both HF and HT I have posted more there, but I do post here also and there are things here I do like.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

This was not meant to go there. This is about the dogs remember.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Sheri said:


> Interesting, Suzi. People sure can see things differently, huh? I've felt that this forum was much more liberal than HT.


 their Bi Laws state: All users will treat each other with respect. Personal attacks of any form will not be tolerated. Actually I have even had others notice personal attacks on my thoughts and told me I would be safe to bring that topic to Havanese talk. I have so much I would love to get off my chest but am totally afraid to write.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

davetgabby said:


> This was not meant to go there. This is about the dogs remember.


 Yes but it was also about lurkers and visitors. I am just making a point why some maybe don't want to join in.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Suzi said:


> Yes but it was also about lurkers and visitors. I am just making a point why some maybe don't want to join in.


I have no problem Suzi, about those that don't want to join in. I was just trying to show reasons why they might want to.


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## bellapico (Nov 29, 2009)

I dont have a havanese which is one of the reasons why I rarely post and I am not sure how much value I add from that stand point but I spend a lot of time reading about all the cute pups on this forum. 


The internet is a great place for people to express their opinion but I think the reasons why people are less likely to participate on HF is the fear of being judged by such a close knit online community.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi Pamela,

I want to be the FIRST (but I'm sure I won't be the only!) one to tell you that we are always HAPPY to include people who own rescue dogs, whether they are full Havanese with drop coats, short haired Havs, part Havs or not-Havs.

As far as short haired Havs are concerned, people who want to pretend they don't exist have their heads in the sand. They have cropped up in some lines for as long as there have been Havanese. Even though the coat is a non-standard coat, and would disqualify the dog from being shown in conformation, they can can CERTAINLY still be registered with AKC, and shown in all performance classes AS Havanese. 

The fact is that there are LOTS of people who enjoy them, and the breeders who happen to get them in their lines from time to time rarely have a problem finding families happy to have them, for all the reasons that you mentioned about Trixie... Not everyone wants to deal with a drop coated dog, or the alternative of regular, costly grooming. As you pointed out, Satins have the same wonderful disposition in a lower maintainance package! (and they are VERY cute... they remind me a little of Papillons, but a bit more solid, and I like the Hav temperament better)

I think you will find that, in general, the things that set people off here (sometimes more than is useful, especially if it's a new member to the forum) is people who knowingly purchase pet store/ puppy mill puppies, and those who would add to the Havanese population without knowing enough or being willing to take the time and effort to learn to do it right. But I think this is because people here are passionate about the breed, and want to see every one of these dogs in perfect, for-ever homes.

Aside from that, there may be the occasional short-lived kerfuffle between people, but what do you expect with a bunch of "crazy dog ladies" (plus Dave an a couple of other token "crazy dog guys":wink


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

davetgabby said:


> This was not meant to go there. This is about the dogs remember.


 Yes but it was also about lurkers and visitors. I am just making a point why some maybe don't want to join in.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Karen, I like that word, "kerfuffle"! Good word! :biggrin1:


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Dave some of us get to a thread and read and don't post because all has been said on that topic of interest--just in different words. Frankly I am not smart enough to rephrase the same thing in maybe 20 different ways, so I don't post--just read. I think that may be a lot of the lurkers as you say. Also, sometimes a person will just wade into something that I know is going to get that person a lecture and I prefer to just watch and usually laugh at the poor dumb one that posted the stupid statement.

Suzi as far as you are concerned, I think you are maybe taking things to hard. You are a very talented creative person and I love reading your posts. I would dare to say that as a member of a family, sometime we disagree but we always love our family member. I know that I am probably hard to take sometimes, but I really do try to keep most of my thoughts to myself. Shame I can't. lol


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Luciledodd said:


> Dave some of us get to a thread and read and don't post because all has been said on that topic of interest--just in different words. Frankly I am not smart enough to rephrase the same thing in maybe 20 different ways, so I don't post--just read. I think that may be a lot of the lurkers as you say. Also, sometimes a person will just wade into something that I know is going to get that person a lecture and I prefer to just watch and usually laugh at the poor dumb one that posted the stupid statement.
> 
> Suzi as far as you are concerned, I think you are maybe taking things to hard. You are a very talented creative person and I love reading your posts. I would dare to say that as a member of a family, sometime we disagree but we always love our family member. I know that I am probably hard to take sometimes, but I really do try to keep most of my thoughts to myself. Shame I can't. lol


 Lucile , I'm referring to people that are viewing the site, but are not members of Havanese Forum.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I knew that Dave...just couldn't keep my fingers still.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Luciledodd said:


> Dave some of us get to a thread and read and don't post because all has been said on that topic of interest--just in different words. Frankly I am not smart enough to rephrase the same thing in maybe 20 different ways, so I don't post--just read. I think that may be a lot of the lurkers as you say. Also, sometimes a person will just wade into something that I know is going to get that person a lecture and I prefer to just watch and usually laugh at the poor dumb one that posted the stupid statement.
> 
> Suzi as far as you are concerned, I think you are maybe taking things to hard. You are a very talented creative person and I love reading your posts. I would dare to say that as a member of a family, sometime we disagree but we always love our family member. I know that I am probably hard to take sometimes, but I really do try to keep most of my thoughts to myself. Shame I can't. lol


Lucile, if you kept your thought to yourself, we'd lose at least a laugh a day. It was a much less light-hearted place around here when you were so sick... partly because we were all worried about you, but also partly just because you weren't here to entertain us with your Rosie, Josie and the chickens stories!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

right on Karen. And this one from today , which should go into the archives.... " By the way that is why they are called MEN is a synonym for AH." ound:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Lucile your the best ! I have so many smiles reading what you say! PS I'm not taking anything hard as a matter of fact the people who have been the hardest on me have taught me the most. After a few whimpers and tears.
My old boss used to say what have you learned Dorothy?


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Dave, I always wondered about the number of visitors we have but then not posting. Just think, we could really get this forum jammed with posts if all the visitors started posting. 

We will have all kinds of opinions when something is posted. You take advice on what will work for you and you try not to take anything personal. If it gets personal, don't reply back and the post will get lost down the line.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

HavaneseSoon said:


> Dave, I always wondered about the number of visitors we have but then not posting. Just think, we could really get this forum jammed with posts if all the visitors started posting.
> 
> We will have all kinds of opinions when something is posted. You take advice on what will work for you and you try not to take anything personal. If it gets personal, don't reply back and the post will get lost down the line.


 Hi Linda, how can a visitor/guest post if they are not a member.? Am I wrong about this , but I thought a visitor /guest was a non member. That's why I'm wondering why there are so many visitors/guests. As I write there are 210 guests and 30 members on the forum. N'est pas? I realize some of these guests are spiders, or as Geri called them search creatures from the www.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Hi Linda, how can a visitor/guest post if they are not a member.? Am I wrong about this , but I thought a visitor /guest was a non member. That's why I'm wondering why there are so many visitors/guests. As I write there are 210 guests and 30 members on the forum. N'est pas? I realize some of these guests are spiders, or as Geri called them search creatures from the www.


Well, for one thing, I think when people are doing research on breeds, they pop onto web sites, looking for information, but may not have any specific questions to ask yet, so may not join. I know that before I narrowed my search down to a Havanese, I went on a number of different breed websites to learn more. When I decided on a Havanese, I joined. (though it took a LONG time to get access at that time... it's much easier now!) I like to do LOTS of research before making a decision. :biggrin1:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I see what you're saying Karen, but these high numbers of guests/visitors are fairly consistent, indicating possibly that a lot of these people are regulars .Who knows. ? Come on in , is all I can say.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

If I only have a second or so and want to check on the forum, frequently I will not log on, so am no doubt showing up as a 'guest'. :biggrin1:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

motherslittlehelper said:


> If I only have a second or so and want to check on the forum, frequently I will not log on, so am no doubt showing up as a 'guest'. :biggrin1:


 I never log on , but it always recognizes me as a member with my name showing. ?


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I tried just checking the forums, but as soon as you do....you will want to post or make a comment and also want to see the pictures! So, you just might as well log on!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

davetgabby said:


> I never log on , but it always recognizes me as a member with my name showing. ?


??? I don't believe I have ever seen your name come up on the members list on the home page. Are you one of those 'invisible' members? :biggrin1: If I want to post, I always have to log on. It used to be that if you wanted to see members' photos, you had to log on. But that seems to have changed. Back in the day when I was a 'lurker' , I could not see the photos and that is one of the reasons I joined.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

motherslittlehelper said:


> ??? I don't believe I have ever seen your name come up on the members list on the home page. Are you one of those 'invisible' members? :biggrin1: If I want to post, I always have to log on. It used to be that if you wanted to see members' photos, you had to log on. But that seems to have changed. Back in the day when I was a 'lurker' , I could not see the photos and that is one of the reasons I joined.


 wow I'm glad you mentioned that. When Iwas trying to see why I wasn't get notifications I checked my settings and it did say that my name was hidden, but I see it everytime i'm on. So I didn't uncheck it. Why is that? I'll have to change that.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Yes, I think it shows your name to you but no one else. And I think the moderators can see who is on even though you may have selected the invisible mode. I believe that little bar under your avatar always comes up as red to everyone else. But maybe it is green to you?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Linda, is my name showing now. I unchecked the hide button. lol


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> I never log on , but it always recognizes me as a member with my name showing. ?


Me too.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Yes, and your little bar is green!!! :whoo:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

motherslittlehelper said:


> Yes, and your little bar is green!!! :whoo:


 LOL Thanks Linda. I didn't realize I was hiding. LOL because I could always see my name there. Like I say computers are alien to me.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

I certainly am not adept at computers. I thought I was doing great to even join the forum and figure out how to post a photo!! :biggrin1: I am wondering about the logging off and on thing though. I will have to experiment. I thought it automatically logged me off, after a certain period of time, after I got off the internet, even when I hadn't logged myself off.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

I never log on or off either. So I may show up as being on and I'm not even home. LOL.
I'm posting very little these days, but do enjoy reading.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I never log off so therefore I do not have to log back on each time


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## Ricolove (Aug 28, 2011)

I never log off from home either, and if I am checking from work, where I have to log everything off it depends on what I want to check if I log in right away or not.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

I never log on because it automatically comes up on my computer and it always says, "Welcome, Kathie" along with the time of my last visit. I wonder if my name shows up to others?

I have always found that the HF is the kinder, gentler forum because several years ago when I joined I was always afraid to post for fear I would get pounced on. Now I feel comfortable. I guess everyone has his own feeling on this subject and that is okay, too!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yep Kathie your name is there in shining lights.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I sometimes open at the office or another computer and have to log on if I want to post. A lot of times I don't especially if on a computor that is not mine. Someone could get my password, etc. As to here at home it automatically reconizes this computor and I don't have to log on.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I think the number of 'lurkers' isn't as high as the count makes it seem, I know many members are here in 'invisible' mode, for whatever reason (and yes, we mods can see who is invisible and who is not) but you can post while invisible.

People probably stumble on various threads here searching vague terms, puppies, flea medicine, allergies, breeders, etc. and may just peek on a page, the internet also has a fair amount of 'bots', that show up as visitors, someone told me awhile back how to tell if it was a bot or not, but I can't recall off the top of my head..

Also, I have noticed some 'visitors' have the same IP (meaning the system may count the same person more than once if they go from page to page or have multiple browsers up) I am sometimes guilty of this...have 15 browsers open and the Forum on 3 of them, Facebook on 3 of the, because I forget I have the other other window open so open a new one...I'm just sayin there are some logical explanations for some of them not being all real people (or different people)

As far as this forum being critical, I quit posting here for about a year because of the newbie attacks and 'elitism', but that was a few years ago before the split and very 'cliquish' back then. I think we are more of one big family now and I personally think this place is more tolerant and accepting than it has ever been in the past, perception is a funny thing I guess. Some topics are hot button topics and get people very passionate, but it is all because of the love we have for our dogs, and breed, and as with any public community, we aren't always going to agree on all things, all of the time, but I do feel we all try to listen and see things from the other side, I know I do. 

This topic has gone a bit off topic, but I thought I'd address both directions.

Love you all! :grouphug: 

Kara


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks Kara, and well said.


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## KirbysMom (Mar 30, 2011)

Hi All,
I am a registered member but have never posted. I stumbled on this site when I was researching thrombocytopenia. My Kirby went through a rough time with this. I was able to connect with another member on this forum who went through a similar experience. It was comforting and reassuring to speak with someone who had experienced what I was going through at the time. I am happy to say that my boy is doing really well and is off all medication. Kirby will be 7 in January~ he is my heart, my laughter, and my baby boy.

As another member said, by the time I read posts that have questions in them, other members have responded and I don't have anything else to add to the conversation.I pop in every so often due to a very busy schedule. I do enjoy this forum and have garnered some great information here. Hopefully, there will come a time when I can contribute as well.

Dave, after reading your recommendation to another member about cosulting with Sabine for guidance with food, I did do that and was very happy with her feedback. 

Thanks everyone for all the great suggestions and information.

Pam


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## DiegoCF_Boston (Apr 12, 2011)

I guess some people can consider me a "lurker" cause I mostly come on here to read...I guess that's my "nosey" side coming through LOL I usually only post when I need advice or when I want to show off my pups! :biggrin1:

I think the biggest problem with reading on the Internet, instead of face to face conversation (I think it was Pamela who talked about it first) is definitely that when you read something, you don't actually know the tone or manner in which it was said...you read it the way you think it was typed and have no other basis to think it was typed differently.

I definitely was afraid at first because some of the more passionate people scared me...reading some posts from people for the first time, I thought that I was in trouble and being scolded and looked down upon and what not...but after re-reading the posts a couple of days later, and newer posts from the same people...it's not that they were scolding me or looking down upon me, it's that they truly are as passionate as they can be for the breed and want me and my little guy to succeed in life. At least, that's how I've decided to look at them :-D


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

DiegoCF_Boston said:


> I guess some people can consider me a "lurker" cause I mostly come on here to read...I guess that's my "nosey" side coming through LOL I usually only post when I need advice or when I want to show off my pups! :biggrin1:
> 
> I think the biggest problem with reading on the Internet, instead of face to face conversation (I think it was Pamela who talked about it first) is definitely that when you read something, you don't actually know the tone or manner in which it was said...you read it the way you think it was typed and have no other basis to think it was typed differently.
> 
> I definitely was afraid at first because some of the more passionate people scared me...reading some posts from people for the first time, I thought that I was in trouble and being scolded and looked down upon and what not...but after re-reading the posts a couple of days later, and newer posts from the same people...it's not that they were scolding me or looking down upon me, it's that they truly are as passionate as they can be for the breed and want me and my little guy to succeed in life. At least, that's how I've decided to look at them :-D


I think you're right, and I DON'T think of you as a "lurker", even if you don't post every day. You participate, we all know who you are, and enjoy your company!


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## lkwilson (Mar 6, 2011)

ok, so gotta ask.... "before the split" what's the history with the two forums?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lkwilson said:


> ok, so gotta ask.... "before the split" what's the history with the two forums?


Long story... not sure you (or we) want to go there. There are stiull a number of people who enjoy both forums.


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## DiegoCF_Boston (Apr 12, 2011)

krandall said:


> I think you're right, and I DON'T think of you as a "lurker", even if you don't post every day. You participate, we all know who you are, and enjoy your company!


HAHA Thanks!!!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

KirbysMom said:


> Hi All,
> I am a registered member but have never posted. I stumbled on this site when I was researching thrombocytopenia. My Kirby went through a rough time with this. I was able to connect with another member on this forum who went through a similar experience. It was comforting and reassuring to speak with someone who had experienced what I was going through at the time. I am happy to say that my boy is doing really well and is off all medication. Kirby will be 7 in January~ he is my heart, my laughter, and my baby boy.
> 
> As another member said, by the time I read posts that have questions in them, other members have responded and I don't have anything else to add to the conversation.I pop in every so often due to a very busy schedule. I do enjoy this forum and have garnered some great information here. Hopefully, there will come a time when I can contribute as well.
> ...


Thanks Pam ,glad you found some help here. Now that you've got that first post under your belt you might feel inclined to join in . Thanks for posting. My Molly will be 7 in Feb.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

lkwilson said:


> ok, so gotta ask.... "before the split" what's the history with the two forums?


Yeah Laura, they're both great forums, full of passionate people. I've only visited Havanese Talk and it seems no different to me. On any forum on the internet you will get your moments when things get heated and perhaps nasty. I think it is no different than anything else in life. I think it's important to look at the many more positive things that happen when you get together with passionate people who simply love their dogs, and love sharing their stories. Like I said , it's fine to watch from the sidelines, but if you feel you might need help , or find that you simply want to join in and share your stories, please don't be shy. My moto here is ... It's About the Dogs. and the friends I make here is a bonus. For others it might be the other way around.


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

Wow-I haven't been on in a few days, so I have totally missed this converstation. 
I'm very glad it was brought up, because I, too, have sometimes felt like there's a "group of buddies" who no matter what topic is brought up, it always ends up a conversation between them. 
So for a month or so, I kinda stayed away. Then I thought, what the heck? If you can't beat em, join em!
So I put out a request for Michigan playdate and we had one @ Jill's with about 10 people and 15 or so havs (some members of hf, some ht and some just friends of friends) We had a GREAT time and I got to know a few people.
I have found the more I post, the more all of you get to know me and the more I can feel a "part" of the conversations! I have gotten great advice from many of you, including some "junior members" and I have made a great friend (Kittenkat) who I email regularly outside of the forum about all sorts of things. She and her family live in the Arctic Circle (how cool is that?!) and I live in boring Detroit, so it's cool to chat!
I guess I just decided that it was up to me to get involved if I want to make friends here. So I have! Let's just all remember to include as many as we can in our threads and maybe even answer or comment on someone's that we might not otherwise comment on. Just a thought I guess...the more the merrier, right?!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

thanks Theresa.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Great post, Theresa. I agree completely, no matter what the group or organization, the more you participate, the more you eel you belong. But you are ALSO right that those of us who have been around for a while need to always be on the look-out to make sure newer folks feel comfortable and included.


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

Hey guys, interesting thread! I read the forum a lot everyday, morning and night and post some.Often I just don't have more to add. I have never been on a forum before and don't do face book. The main interest is of course the dogs but it is really fascinating to me to be part of a community of sorts and feel as if I am "getting to know" certain people from their posts. This concept of communicating with people you don't know through the written word with out face to face contact can be difficult,but we all are learning to do it,and yes sometimes it is stressful. I would encourage people out there who read often to post a little at least to say hello. I lurked for a while before I got Atticus, it's fun and interesting but you don't really feel a part of it until you share at least a pic of your pup!!!! try it!!!!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

OKay I give up...do you mean the little bar by the exclamation point? Mine are all red...what did I do wrong??


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## Ricolove (Aug 28, 2011)

it's red when the person is offline, green when they are on the site


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Trixie said:


> I can offer some thoughts to, perhaps, consider, based on my personal experience, having just begun posting myself:
> 
> 1. some people possibly come to 'just read' the board because they are looking for specific information, possibly for a problem or curiosity that they have, (whether to do with behavior, grooming, diet, etc.) They don't necessarily want to 'join in' into being an active part of an online community, but they need help. So they read about other's experiences.
> For myself, personally, although I joined the forum about a year or so ago, (I think), I actually never posted because I never came here UNLESS I wanted to find some specific dog-related information, AND as my dog is very young, I spent most of my time in these last two years outside, or somewhere, actually DOING stuff with my dog, and less time sitting in front of a computer keyboard.
> ...


"" I've also been apprehensive since I don't have a pedigree Havanese with papers, am not a part of AKC, nor is my girl the perfect 'standard'. (since my girl is a Satin.) But I love her, just the same. "" 

I have to tell you that I have two dogs, neither of them Havanese, and have been so very welcomed to this group, before and after the group split. This group does not care if you have a Havanese, or even a dog at all, if you are interested in the welfare of the dog that is enough..There is so much to learn here..and such an opportunity to share what you THINK you know. I say think because you can often find so much more you don't know. I would love to be active in both groups, but like Dave, I don't have time..I have missed so much by not being on this group for days...

That being said, I think there are really bad feelings that divide the two groups, it is a shame, but it is what it is. Yes, I would imagine some of the older members who went with the other group come to see what is going on and feel they don't want to sign in..that is a shame and a loss for all concerned. 
There will always be strong personalities, and yes we have some right here among us...you cannot find a perfect dog and you cannot find a perfect group. Mostly this group is as good as you give and as good as you take from it. Putting your head in the sand is permissible, but if I did that, I would open my mouth and choke!! ound:

I for one take away much more than I put into this group, but you will not find a place more comforting when you need help! JMHO


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Ricolove said:


> it's red when the person is offline, green when they are on the site


Ok, thank you!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yes, Flynn, but you have two of the cutest non-Havs around! And SW thinks he's an "honorary Hav anyway!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

krandall said:


> Yes, Flynn, but you have two of the cutest non-Havs around! And SW thinks he's an "honorary Hav anyway!


Thank you so much, yes, SW definitely thinks he is Havanese!! Now since Lady Mia's rear is not clipped, she actually looks like a little Hav without much nose..lol. We enjoy it here!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Life stepped in and I've been away from the forum for a few days and missed this whole thing. I do think this group (much more often than not) is as caring and supportive as a crazy bunch of dog lovers can be. I also think there was much more vitriol before the split and there were a lot more judgmental postings. Yes, there is passion here, and occasionally posts may come across as mean spirited, though I can almost guarantee, knowing the players, that is not the intention.

Suzi, if you'd been here before, you would likely have run for the hills in the beginning. In your case, as in many others, I suspect in an effort to help you understand the importance of responsible breeding, some posts were passionate and felt uncomfortable to hear. Occasionally the responses are difficult for me to read as well, but it's so infrequent, compared to the past. 

Personally, I think you'd be hard put to find a kinder, more caring group of people. If I needed help or information, having nothing to do with dogs, or needed prayers coming my way, this would be my first stop.

And, for those who have dogs with less than perfect beginnings in life, they and their people are welcomed here with open arms. We're thrilled that you've given them a chance to experience life as they should have a right to. And, as Flynn said, we've always welcomed everyone, whether or not they have a havanese in their lives. So, if you're lurking and feel the urge to join in the conversation, please do. There's enough love here to embrace all of you.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Wow! so many great posts since my last read on this thread!

I found this forum when there was less than 500 members, probably about 6 months old and I lurked for awhile before I joined, even when this place was so small, it felt like there was a tight clique and I was an outsider, but the more I posted, the more people I met (newbies and those here before me) and I made quite a few friends, many of them I still am friends with to this day and we talk outside of the forum as well, so I am glad that I 'jumped in', so to speak, nothing ventured, nothing gained  I think when other new people see new people posting, they tend to post more (or so it seems) and then we all get to know each other better! I was leary of how this thread would go when I first saw it, but I have to say, some wonderful thoughts and posts have been made, and nice to hear from the 'lurkers' :grouphug:

As far as the dynamics of the split, basically to make a long story somewhat short, a fraction of the members left and started a new forum, I"m not going to go into much more than that, rather keep that particular pandora's box closed, but I really like the feel of this forum and the way it has evolved 

Kara


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Ricolove said:


> it's red when the person is offline, green when they are on the site





Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Ok, thank you!!!


It also shows as red if the member is in 'invisible or hidden' mode, even though they are online.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

motherslittlehelper said:


> It also shows as red if the member is in 'invisible or hidden' mode, even though they are online.


I see, I checked, I am NOT invisible...lol..


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## bellapico (Nov 29, 2009)

I visit the website pretty much everyday and I am sure I probably show as a visitor most of the time because I can sign on on my work computer, my itouch, both blackberry and ipad. So on any given day I show up at least 5 different ways. I may artificially be increasing the numbers.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

bellapico said:


> I visit the website pretty much everyday and I am sure I probably show as a visitor most of the time because I can sign on on my work computer, my itouch, both blackberry and ipad. So on any given day I show up at least 5 different ways. I may artificially be increasing the numbers.


I think this happens a lot, especially with the smart phones and iPad, I,too always have the forum on the mac and my iPhone, all the time.

Kara


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## katkoota (Feb 25, 2010)

I have no havanese (at the moment), but I've always felt welcomed here, so thank you  I am learning and sharing every once in a while. 

When I get my very own hav, you better watch out with the huge amount of posts from my side


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

katkoota said:


> I have no havanese (at the moment), but I've always felt welcomed here, so thank you  I am learning and sharing every once in a while.
> 
> When I get my very own hav, you better watch out with the huge amount of posts from my side


Kat, this place wouldn't be the same without you. I'm sure I can speak for the group when I say, we wholeheartedly look forward to your posts and those incredible photos of your beautiful babies.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I love seeing her two little angels and their antics.


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## katkoota (Feb 25, 2010)

pjewel said:


> Kat, this place wouldn't be the same without you. I'm sure I can speak for the group when I say, we wholeheartedly look forward to your posts and those incredible photos of your beautiful babies.





The Laughing Magpie said:


> I love seeing her two little angels and their antics.


awwh thanks. made the malts' tails wag ^_^ @Robbie - trust me......they are no angels. They are good at looking like ones though, but their acts speak little about it. Recently, even Crystal started her own mischievous act, without involving Snowy. My mum puts pieces of bread in our garden for the beautiful birds who fly by and some live in (flying free birds who live in our garden's tree). Crystal started bread collecting. We didn't figure that it was her at first, but only recently caught her in act. She takes a piece after another, puts them in a corner and guards them, not allowing Snowy the pup or Romeo the cat or the birds who my mum put the bread for to have any 0.o Go figure. She doesn't eat it, but just guard it.

Snowy is so looking forward to wrestling with a new havanese at home. Crystal the kissinator? I think that she will be shooting the kisses instead ound:


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

I'm confused. What kind of dogs are Snowy and Crystal?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tcollins said:


> I'm confused. What kind of dogs are Snowy and Crystal?


Maltese.


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

oh, okay, I kinda figured that. thanks


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Kat, I think YOU are the one who will be surprised with all the posts you are going to have sent to you!!! I think everyone would like to get some information on the way you train Snowy and Crystal....Watch out!!!


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## katkoota (Feb 25, 2010)

krandall said:


> Maltese.





tcollins said:


> oh, okay, I kinda figured that. thanks


Yep that is right - a couple maltese monsters lol ... Who are my sun shines <3



Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Kat, I think YOU are the one who will be surprised with all the posts you are going to have sent to you!!! I think everyone would like to get some information on the way you train Snowy and Crystal....Watch out!!!


awwh I am more than happy to share how I train my two. I use possitive training method with them. And make sure to turn those training sessions into fun sessions. Makes the malts loooove these sessions and always willing to work with u


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

katkoota said:


> Yep that is right - a couple maltese monsters lol ... Who are my sun shines <3
> 
> awwh I am more than happy to share how I train my two. I use possitive training method with them. And make sure to turn those training sessions into fun sessions. Makes the malts loooove these sessions and always willing to work with u


That's exactly why "positive" training works. It's fun .


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