# be aware



## eurobichons (Jan 20, 2007)

some breeders ARE NOT WHAT THEY SEEM.
IN the UK at present there is quite a lot of disturbing information being pushed via the grapevine that all is not well within the Havanese breed.

Cant say too much yet but will later on.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Well, this is mysterious! Keep us posted.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

This is such a vague message. Are you saying this problem is mostly in the UK or what? Are you saying that some of the dogs aren't purebreds? Are you saying breeders are falsifying information? You don't need to give specific information, but it would be nice if you gave people a direction in what questions to ask of breeders. Otherwise this post is kinda useless.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Hmmm... most of us already know that some breeders are not what they seem. I would need more information to "be aware". Can you tell us more?


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Maybe some Havanese breeders want to break off and form their own splinter group? 

Oops, that already happend... lol

Ryan


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Ryan.


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## Patti McNeil (Apr 20, 2009)

Hmmmm.....instead of posting a "Be Aware" thread saying you can't tell us anything, why not post the thread when you CAN say something?


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Ryan, that's exactly what I was thinking......the infamous split has now crossed the pond.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Patti McNeil said:


> Hmmmm.....instead of posting a "Be Aware" thread saying you can't tell us anything, why not post the thread when you CAN say something?


Ditto! I see no point to the "Be Aware" until you are able to tell us what to be aware of. Otherwise what's the point.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Patti McNeil said:


> Hmmmm.....instead of posting a "Be Aware" thread saying you can't tell us anything, why not post the thread when you CAN say something?


I agree with Patti, this thread is too vague to even comment on.


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## peluitohavanese (Nov 8, 2006)

eurobichons said:


> IN the UK at present there is quite a lot of disturbing information being pushed via the grapevine that all is not well within the Havanese breed.
> 
> Cant say too much yet but will later on.


Seems to me some people missed Nationals. You had to be there to know how absolutely marvelous things are going in the Havanese breed


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Beamer said:


> Maybe some Havanese breeders want to break off and *form their own splinter group*? ...


HavUKnese silk dogs?:gossip:


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## peluitohavanese (Nov 8, 2006)

:wink:


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

LOL Zury!


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

OK, that was funny Zury!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hav an idea based on one of our trainers. But won't speculate. Interesting site.... http://www.eurobichons.com/view_forum.php?id=51&show=selected


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

*OK, I have to speak my mind*

Hey, some of us HAVE dogs that are HSDAA registered as well as AKC, registered Havanese. Kodi is a great dog, well conformed, with true Havanese (and HSD) type and temperament. He comes from lines that have been healthy and produced healthy pups for many years. I couldn't be happier with him or with his breeders, Tom and Pam King. I am sure there are good Havanese breeders, who do all that Pam and Tom do but have chosen not to go the HDS route. That's fine too. I didn't pick the Kings as breeders or Kodi as a puppy based on him being a HSD... I didn't know anything at all about that part of it until after I had made the decision to work with these committed breeders. I have to say, if and when I get another Hav, it will also be an HDS, because I wouldn't think about going anywhere else for another puppy than the Kings.

Many, if not most of the people who post regularly on this forum are fairly new to the breed, and we don't know (or really care) about what bad feelings happened whenever the split took place. It's in the past, and IMO, should stay there. Personally, as the owner of one of these dogs, knowing what a wonderful dog he is, and what wonderful people the Kings are, I have a real problem with the snyde comments about HSDAA and the "wink, wink" stuff that goes on among a small group of people here. From what _I_ have seen personally, the HSDAA folks are a very committed group of people, even if you don't agree with their decision to split off.

I don't see why this stuff has to go on on a forum that is, for the most part, inclusive and supportive. I've seen many posts by people with rescue dogs, where the general approach by forum members is, "If it looks like a Hav, it really doesn't matter... you are welcome here" I think that's great. Why, then, do I, with my beautiful, fully registered, well bred Havanese/HSD puppy NOT feel as welcome as those whose dogs may or may not even BE Havanese? Why should I feel that I can't even mention that he's double registered?

I love this forum in general, but that stuff makes me want to leave.


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## peluitohavanese (Nov 8, 2006)

I am not even going to go there. All Havanese owners are welcome - at least in my book. I don't have a problem with any of these splinter groups as long as they go along their merry way and don't try to hurt our breed, the only and original Havanese, by saying that they are not as healthy. I also have a huge problem with a select few trying to hurt our club, the HCA and it's members.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Then why all the snarky comments? (and I'm not speaking specifically about you, or even about this thread) But it's not the first time I've seen it, it's just the first time it irritated me enough to speak up. I've only been involved with this forum since June. In that time I haven't seen ONE reference to HSD's being "better" or "healthier" than Havanese. All the comments I've seen have gone in the other direction. As I said before, it makes me very uncomfortable.


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## peluitohavanese (Nov 8, 2006)

There are 'snarky' comments about all kinds of topics on this and other forums, not just about 'HSD' and by the way people were joking....most of us are SO OVER the split and the arguments for/against. Really. After the record-breaking attendance and entries and the amazing consistency and quality of the Havanese being presented at National (and Judge Edd Bivin made a point to mention this at our Banquet), it is very obvious that the Havanese breed and the HCA are as strong as ever.
I have no interest in engaging or locking horns on a subject that is moot. I don't think that a little bit of humor about something that is done and over with is something that terrible - if anything, it means that it is past and we have all been able to leave it behind and smile about it.
I am not going to reply further regarding this subject. As I said, I have no interest in reviving a topic that has been dead for sometime.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Karen,

I was just joking around and really did not mean anything by my comment. You would have to read the old HSD threads to really know what was going on.. it was pretty crazy!

Also, I put atleast one HSD dog in the calendar twice! I know for a fact a regular old Havanese dog would NEVER make it into a HSD calendar.. lol

Ryan


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Ugh, I typed this whole thing and my time ran out so I lost it! I am not retyping everything so I am just summarizing it this time! LOL

I can care less what happened before. I would have gotten either puppy when I was looking for my Bumi (Tom and Arlene know that).

Also, when *I* find something funny, there is no heaven or earth that will stop me from laughing, nah ah. The comment such as HavUKnese was funny to me and I will not stop in the future to make similar comments if I find them funny! And that has nothing to do with the HSD vs. Havanese thing, regardless of the subject, I find it funny - I laugh! :brushteeth:

And if you keep this up, I am not going to let Bumi be Kodi's friend!:director:


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Beamer said:


> Hi Karen,
> 
> I was just joking around and really did not mean anything by my comment. You would have to read the old HSD threads to really know what was going on.. it was pretty crazy!
> 
> ...


Hmm, wonder who's dog that was...?!:wink:

Kodi's mom, don't worry about it. I and several others are in the same boat and I laugh along with everyone else. If I had read these comments a year ago, I would have reacted the same way (I actually did), but things have calmed down in the sense that we tease each other with these HSD comments now. Since you've only been here since June, you may not know enough members and their 'jokes' yet, which is understandable. BTW, my dogs are better than everyone else's, HA!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I was here when the old threads were written and I can read the web page now. While I am not a breeder I do love this breed. I don't like that the HSDAA do try to imply better and say they are a different breed or just more health tested, etc. I find what was said and what is still said offensive to the breed of Havanese that I cherish. While I think you may find the HSDAA are a very committed group of people, I find the HCA people very committed and rescue Havanese people very committed as well and by saying better, it is very negative to all those who put in tons of work for the Havanese breed and stayed with the breed and dogs they chose.

I also think this forum is a wonderful place for anyone... havanese owner or not, you aren't always going to agree with every thread or every person but I like that everyone can offer their voice.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Ugh. Well this thread sure took a turn down a nasty old road. I think all HSD stuff should go in the HSD thread. I'm just here to talk about Havanese dogs..whether they are Havanese or HSD's or Yorkies, or TT's, when they come here they are Hav's. This is a fun place to talk all about our dogs, but lets not get all political about it unless it's in a thread thats clearly marked as such. I don't want to be happily reading along and run into this [email protected] unexpectedly.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

I wish Eurobichons would come back and explain him/herself..

Ryan


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Carefulove said:


> And if you keep this up, I am not going to let Bumi be Kodi's friend!:director:


You know, I didn't start it, and I wish I hadn't read it. I just hope that people who seem to feel the need to keep going back over that hurtful stuff will not be surprised when the occasional newer person says "ouch". :closed_2:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks, Ryan and Maryam, I know that the majority of people here are very nice. I love the calendar, BTW... it's already hanging in the kitchen, even though I can't "officially" start using it until Dec.!


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## bethany (Apr 12, 2008)

OK, I'm going to settle this HSD / Havanese controversy once and for all!

CORGIS RULE!!!!!!!!!!! eace::amen:

(and we're PROUD of our CD!)

Beth


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## peluitohavanese (Nov 8, 2006)

Carefulove said:


> And if you keep this up, I am not going to let Bumi be Kodi's friend!:director:


:bounce:

You'd have to have known Zury for a while to know that she was teasing when she wrote the above statement LOL LOL!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

krandall said:


> You know, I didn't start it, and I wish I hadn't read it. I just hope that people who seem to feel the need to keep going back over that hurtful stuff will not be surprised when the occasional newer person says "ouch". :closed_2:


Darlin' seriously, take a chill pill and get down from that high horse of yours, it'll do you no good!
I was only teasing, but apparently you didn't get it...Meh...I can care less!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

peluitohavanese said:


> :bounce:
> 
> You'd have to have known Zury for a while to know that she was teasing when she wrote the above statement LOL LOL!


:evil: it must be the Cuban humor!

We need a Sneaky and a Who cares smilie :evil:


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## peluitohavanese (Nov 8, 2006)

In other words....LIGHTEN UP!!! 
We are all friends on this list.... sometimes it's a good idea to grow some thick skin and not take things so seriously.



Carefulove said:


> We need a Sneaky and a Who cares smilie :evil:


:violin: a good "who cares" smilie

eep: a "sneaky" smilie


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

peluitohavanese said:


> :violin: a good "who cares" smilie
> 
> eep: a "sneaky" smilie


Nah, this one eep: feels like I'm hidding after I said something. Let me see if I can fish one and post it here! :evil:


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

I love the second one. It has nothing to do with this, but I just liked it!


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Now now kids... play nice.. or.... :tape:


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

All I can say, is not that again!!!

I wasn't going to say anything, but.....
I was here when the whole havana silk dog fiasco started. I am only a fancier, not a breeder and found this to be really distatsteful to say the least. One day the dogs were Havanese and the next day they were better, different, healthier..... Come on, give me a break! You know if it walk like a duck, quacks like a duck it must be a duck! And if they were two different breeds, why still show them AKC. 

Sorry, I just get so upset when this keeps resurfacing.

Here are the two original threads if someone wants to read.

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=1010&highlight=havana+silk+dogs

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=8567&highlight=havana+silk+dogs


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## Patti McNeil (Apr 20, 2009)

This stuff is great. "Great" in that it is quite entertaining to read a bunch of adults get their feelings hurt over comments about breeds of dogs. Toby is a havanese and I love him, but I couldn't care less if someone told me their dog was better than mine. I wouldn't even care if you told me your kid was smarter than my kid. It all sounds so infantile to me.

I just don't get it.


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## peluitohavanese (Nov 8, 2006)

Which is EXACTLY why I think this should be the end of this thread now. It all started out as a simple joke, and we are getting into talking about a topic that is and has been dead and is totally insignificant.:blabla:


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## peluitohavanese (Nov 8, 2006)

Carefulove said:


> I love the second one. It has nothing to do with this, but I just liked it!


Oooooh where did you find those? They are cu-u-u-te!!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

peluitohavanese said:


> Oooooh where did you find those? They are cu-u-u-te!!


HERE :evil:


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

Beamer said:


> I wish Eurobichons would come back and explain him/herself..
> 
> Ryan


Ditto. I just love when ppl give you vague details & then leave ya in suspense!


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## peluitohavanese (Nov 8, 2006)

Carefulove said:


> HERE :evil:


These are funny!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Beamer said:


> Maybe some Havanese breeders want to break off and form their own splinter group?
> 
> Oops, that already happend... lol
> 
> Ryan


O.k. Ryan, you are SUCH a brat! See what you've gone and done now? :fish:

Whoever "eurobichon" is, you can see just how quickly one post can cause an avalanche of angry, bitter, funny, silly, and nonsense posts. Now, if we pretend Ryan said nothing about HSD, where exactly were you intending to go with your initial post? Please explain. Are you a European breeder?

Thanks!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Patti McNeil said:


> This stuff is great. "Great" in that it is quite entertaining to read a bunch of adults get their feelings hurt over comments about breeds of dogs. Toby is a havanese and I love him, but I couldn't care less if someone told me their dog was better than mine. I wouldn't even care if you told me your kid was smarter than my kid. It all sounds so infantile to me.
> 
> I just don't get it.


Hey Patti-My Havanese is smarter than your kid!!!! :wink:

I couldn't care less what my dogs are, I love them just like they are!!! What started as a joke was misinterpreted and that's a shame. We joke a LOT on here so take everything with a grain of salt.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

My Neezers would be rejected from both groups....But I couldn't love them more and they are all Havanese to me (just a little larger) 

Oh yeah and they are smarter than everybody's kids!!!!LOL.

Please come back and put all this rest Eurobichon!


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## Patti McNeil (Apr 20, 2009)

Ann,
I have 4 boys and 1 girl. Boys do pretty stupid things, so I wouldn't doubt if your havs are smarter than my boys (on some days). lol


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

LOL Patti, I was just trying to "lighten up" the tone of the thread. I have 2 boys and a girl and often think the dogs are smarter than the kids too!


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Beamer said:


> I wish Eurobichons would come back and explain him/herself..
> 
> Ryan


:doh: I was wondering what breed was this (Eurobichons) ound: I really have to stop drinking beer in the mornings! eep:



Scooter's Family said:


> LOL Patti, I was just trying to "lighten up" the tone of the thread. I have 2 boys and a girl and often think the dogs are smarter than the kids too!


Hey, I have two boys and a husband and now a male dog. I am so doomed...eep:


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I have two male dogs too, way too much testosterone in this house!


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

Ann, it sounds like you need 2 female dogs to even it out


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## Patti McNeil (Apr 20, 2009)

Ha, Zury....yes you are!


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## Patti McNeil (Apr 20, 2009)

Ryan,
Don't you love how we've taken over this thread and changed it from "This breed is better than that breed" to "Boys/Men are dumb"??????? lol


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Patti, Hmmmm.. yessss... interesting.. lol


Ryan


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Scooter's Family said:


> I have two male dogs too, way too much testosterone in this house!


But don't husbands count for like half a dozen kids? ound:


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Patti McNeil said:


> Ryan,
> Don't you love how we've taken over this thread and changed it from "This breed is better than that breed" to "Boys/Men are dumb"??????? lol


We can always start with "My husband is better than yours"eep:


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Scooter's Family said:


> Hey Patti-My Havanese is smarter than your kid!!!! :wink:


That reminds me of a license plate holder that I used for a few years:
*My Havanese can lick your honor student*


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## Patti McNeil (Apr 20, 2009)

Love it!


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Karen, I am so sorry that my words offended you and that it took this long for me to get back here to apologize. Of course you had no idea what has gone on here in the past and what kind of an "inside joke" the whole HSD thing has become, and I am NOT saying the dogs, or the people or the group, just the topic here on the Forum.

I love ALL Havanese and I don't care if they're not registered anywhere!

I'm sorry it sounded like a personal attack, that wasn't it at all.

The Forum trouble as far as the HSD goes, was because of one or two people who insisted on antagonizing the situation in my eyes. Tom was never anything but a gentleman. He has always been helpful, polite, curteous and willing to give advice to anyone who asked. I don't think there is a person on this Forum that wouldn't feel lucky to have one of their puppies.
Do I wish the split would have never happened? Of course! Think of all the good that could be done if all of our resources were working together on health issues, rescue, betterment of the breed! That sure doesn't mean I'm going to poke fun at anyone or even care, that anyone has a dog that's registered HSD. 

Again, I'm sorry for the hurt feelings.

Beverly


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks, Beverly, I really appreciate your post.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Well said, Beverly. I feel the same way. ((Karen))


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

What happened to eurobichons? Just dropping in to stir the pot?


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

trueblue said:


> What happened to eurobichons? Just dropping in to stir the pot?


Sure looks that way.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks Marj!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Can I get a medal for keeping my mouth shut? :tape: That was amazing! I think I need to go bury my head in a quilt block!ound:


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Julie!*

The cost of fabric has gone up too!

Hey, I have an idea...everyone start quilting!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Julie, I need a medal too! I think we should get a parade for keeping both our mouths shut.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Lina, is Hitch as big as his brother?*

They look about the same size now. How fast he grew! Who is the big boss, Kubrick or Hitchcock?


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Lina
I like your smileys!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Linda, Hitch is 1lb lighter than Kubrick and he's pretty much done growing, I think. He looks deceptively bigger, though, (even to other hav owners) because of the TON of hair he has. 

Thanks, Sheri.


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## TShot (Jan 16, 2009)

It is totally wrong to post a thread titled "be aware", post with no explanation then not follow up on it. If I were a moderator I would delete this thread.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

As a moderator---I'm choosing to leave it. I figure they had a right to start their thread and if people chose to read it and post fine-if not fine too. As far as I'm concerned it's a freedom of expression. I am personally not thrilled with it and have my own opinion on it's merits,but that doesn't give me the right to delete it.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

This is the funniest thread. An elusive remark, we all post to it, some get mad about the remarks, some have fun with it, and all of us check back to see if there is an elaboration on the first post and the member that started it probably sits back and laughs.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I'm just nosy Sandi! :becky:


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Ann we all are, that is why I keep checking.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Scooter's Family said:


> I'm just nosy Sandi! :becky:


Me too. I keep checking back for additional comments.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Methinks this might have been a social experiment of some kind. :spy: :doh::biggrin1:


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Wow what a thread... LOL I agree with Marj, it seems like a social experiment. Someone decided to stir the pot and am very happy this thread ended where it did. Phew! As I was reading I was thinking "Oh no not AGAIN?!" :deadhorse:  But thankfully it's over. 

Now, mr or mrs Eurobichon.... You have some splanin' to do.....:suspicious:


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

I keep hoping to hear "the rest of the story".


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## Sarah (Sep 1, 2008)

Beamer said:


> Hi Karen,
> 
> I was just joking around and really did not mean anything by my comment. You would have to read the old HSD threads to really know what was going on.. it was pretty crazy!
> 
> ...


GOOD FOR YOU RYAN! I HATE THIS STUPID DOG DRAMA BS! Jesus people need to move on and realize its a **** dog! Gr.


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## eurobichons (Jan 20, 2007)

OK so here is what I can say at the moment.

We have been made aware that Hip Dysplasia is now present in some UK lines. mostly due to people using a dog (that was thought had this problem). This is not newcomers to the breed but established breeder exhibitors from the breed club.

Now we know that some of you have run back to the Hav club GB which we dont mind in fact we applaud your actions as it has driven people TO OUR SITE not away from it.

Other problems exist but at present we cannot say until definitive proof comes back.In the interest and protection of the breed we happily inform of health developments , sadly the breed club dont. We have been asked to start a new breed club by many of the members of the havanese club GB, at present we are holding that off in the hope the established one can get its act together and think of the breed before their own self glorification.


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## eurobichons (Jan 20, 2007)

At the end of the day we ALL have the best dog because we live with him or her and enjoy its antics, its sillyness, its love and sloppy kisses. Health of any dog is the responsibility of the breeders , when they get it right all is good, sadly though if they ignore the advice and produce progeny that is poor then hey the BREED suffers for generations.


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## lcy_pt (Aug 17, 2007)

eurobichons said:


> OK so here is what I can say at the moment.
> 
> We have been made aware that Hip Dysplasia is now present in some UK lines. mostly due to people using a dog (that was thought had this problem). This is not newcomers to the breed but established breeder exhibitors from the breed club.
> 
> ...


my bold

you mean this site? http://www.eurobichons.com/
not sure why you didn't provide this before and what on earth does this have to do with us? :tape:

and so :focus: .....uh, what was the topic?? :angel:


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

eurobichons, If you have something to discuss you can feel free to come here and get it discussed but please don't come here and start a Troll thread. You may wish to increase the participation on your Forums but how would you like it if someone started a Troll thread there and took up a lot of your bandwidth for chit/chat discussions.

I suggest starting another thread and requesting the moderators delete this one. So far everything on all the pages preceeding this one is nothing but a Troll thread.

Every other Forums I'm on-Golf, Horses, Sailboat Racing, Aerobatics, and a few others have many more members and threads than this Forums does and they ALL delete Troll threads in interest of conserving bandwidth.

These Forums are privately owned and individually funded. A Troll thread is great disrespect for that.

And as a personal note, I am a fifth generation breeder of horses, cattle, and dogs. We teach seminars on horse and dog conformation, and I'm a consultant on Sporthorse breeding. We have so far bred 5 generations of healthy Havanese and been through two splits in the Havanese breed. I might have something to say that may interest you, but I will not be trolled and won't post again on this thread.

Sincerely,
Tom King --my real name


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

:amen: Tom!


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

eurobichons said:


> We have been asked to start a new breed club by many of the members of the havanese club GB, at present we are holding that off in the hope the established one can get its act together and think of the breed before their own self glorification.


Work within your breed club or you are working for your own glorification. Report the findings if there's a problem or do you want to have 'better' havs?


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Well, now that I have read this thread I'm so much better off. NOT.
My bumper sticker say's "my hav's smarter than your honor student"
Carole


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## moxie (Feb 6, 2008)

I don't understand?? Trolled??


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## peluitohavanese (Nov 8, 2006)

eurobichons said:


> OK so here is what I can say at the moment.
> 
> We have been made aware that Hip Dysplasia is now present in some UK lines. mostly due to people using a dog (that was thought had this problem). This is not newcomers to the breed but established breeder exhibitors from the breed club.


And what makes this worthy news??? This is nothing new. Hip Dysplasia exists in our breed, and yes, there are people breeding Havs here in the US that have failed their OFA hips. We know who they are and I simply choose to steer clear of the lines. So what's the big deal? There was no need to stir things up on this list with such a vague post. :nono:


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## peluitohavanese (Nov 8, 2006)

moxie said:


> I don't understand?? Trolled??


From Wikipedia:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Meh. I don't think this is a troll thread at all. It was on topic, but extremely vague and not of much interest to the majority here. 

The good thing for the European Havs is that if this is new for them, they've been very fortunate so far. How many of us know breeders that have been breeding dogs with problems or worse yet, not even caring if the dogs have problems and breeding haphazardly to every dog they can find?


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## Patti McNeil (Apr 20, 2009)

My issue is that the first post was vague and inflammatory (meaning it was meant to provoke). Again, my recommendation is not to post something saying to beware of something unless you are ready to discuss the issue. So, it was NOT on topic in the beginning because there was no topic.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

How very anticlimactic. :blabla:


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Patti, she said she'd come back when she could, but for most of us that would have been much better if it were within a few minutes or hours or not post, but hey, not everyone uses the best judgment at all times. 

Ann, that's the hard part about deciphering something like this. What is major or critical to one person isn't going to be to another. I can't even tell you how many time I've watched a puppy buyer's eyes glaze over when someone starts talking about their "breeder" being a backyard breeder, a puppy mill or whatever. All they know is that they have a great puppy that they love and all the rest is moot to them. To some of us? No way.


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## Mom2Izzo (Jul 1, 2009)

Scooter's Family said:


> LOL Patti, I was just trying to "lighten up" the tone of the thread. I have 2 boys and a girl and often think the dogs are smarter than the kids too!


Let me add to this- Hav's are more OBEDIENT than the kids too


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Mom2Izzo said:


> Let me add to this- Hav's are more OBEDIENT than the kids too


eep: Not if they team up against you they don't.

My three (2 boys and the dog) run all over the house like buddies, is like the dog enjoys being a 1st grader along with my kids! I tell you, I am lucky to still be sane.


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