# Tori Hates Him!



## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Tori is avoiding any contact she can w/the pup. If he's out of his expen, she's either on the chair/sofa/loveseat or trying to get out of the room he's in (to the other side of the baby gates) or into one of our arms. If I make her stay w/him, like in the office where's there's no "safe" place for her to be where he can't reach her, she's huddled, trying to hide under the desk/in a corner, etc. If he "keeps at her" to play she'll jump at him and growl. She has rolled and pinned him several times, but as soon as she walks away, up he pops and goes right back for her. He is pretty aggressive in his play and she really doesn't like it. He's much more dominant than what I thought he'd be. Whenever he's trying to engage her he will almost always try to get on her back, maybe to hump??? If I make her stay with him and don't allow her to get away, she starts drooling, circling and looking for "a way out". I think she hates him, and maybe even us for bringing him here 

Night before last, we were eating dinner in the family room to be near him in his expen, he was crying loudly so, several times I told him firmly to be quiet or I'd just snap my finger or say "AK!". Well, about the 2nd or 3rd time I did this, DH pointed out that Tori was next to him trying to hide behind his back and she was trembling. She doesn't seem to realize it's not her who's being scolded. She's sooooo sensitive. Amanda suggested using names before commands, which I've started doing ("Puppy, no!", "Tori, come", etc.) So far, no change in her. 

Last night DS, DDIL, and Rascal came by. At one point, the baby had Tori cornered and Rascal was just looking on. Well, when Tori couldn't take any more she let him have it; growling, snarling, lunging, rolling, etc. Poor Rascal didn't know what hit her. 

So far, I've just been letting them try to work it out, but he's a headstrong little cuss, and doesn't seem to be getting, or at least not caring about, the messages Tori's giving. It's hard to see her like this w/him, especially since she's the one we got him for. Ever received a present you absolutely hated? I think that's how she must be feeling. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to help Tori???


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Oh Dear Leslie. I have to admit I laughed when I read the title of this thread...Because Jasper hated Cash too at first..and I was about to send Cash back. But they will work it out. We tried making sure Jasper was always treated like number 1. Fed first, greeted first, walked first, played with/petted first. It sent a confidence signal to him and a sign to Cash where he stood in the pack. This didn't not last, as Jas (as Tori may be) is really pretty happy being an Omega dog (he stopped eating first and would wait til Cash ate) But it helped us get over the hump. They didn't start to actually play til Cash was 4.5-5 months. But I knew it would be ok when we had cable guys come to the house and Jas puffed himself up to twice the size to stand in front of Cash's x-pen and protect him and growl at the cable guys.

Give it time.


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## KristinFusco (Jun 5, 2007)

I understand how you're feeling Leslie!

But I think it's perfectly normal. Many people I've spoken to who've added a second Hav have gone through this stage. Carlito took awhile to warm up to Nico, too. He would stay up on the couches where Nico couldn't reach, and he would pin Nico all of the time for pestering him. But all of this passed, and though they wrestle daily, they really love each other now.

Hang in there girl!!!!!


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Leslie, I'm so sorry that Tori is having difficulty with the puppy. I don't have a lot of advice really. McKenna accepted Sedona with pleasure. We did do exactly what Missy mentions and that was to always greet, feed, pet, McKenna first. We were fortunate in that Sedona happily accepted the position of subordiinate. It sounds like you have two who may vie for the top dog honors. 
Poor Tori, it must be heartbreaking to see her drooling and shaking. I'm sure they will work it out eventually though.
Hugs!


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## Maxmom (Jul 22, 2008)

That ungrateful, little Tori! 

I don't have any advice, since I'm a one Hav owner/two Hav wanabe. You do have my sympathies, though. I wish I could sit down with Tori and explain to her that this is a good thing!

I'll be watching for the wonderful posts from forum members with all their good advice.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

This reminds me alot of my mom's shih tzsu Fanny. They had a male tzsu that died, so they bought Maddie (at 10 weeks) home. Fanny was absolutely livid over it. She wouldn't as much as look at Maddie-wanted nothing to do with her-HATED her and definitely resented my mom for bringing her home. The puppy was rough with her too and Fanny cowered away. Long story short, Maddie is 4 now and is definitely submissive to Fanny, but they get along just fine. I think maybe they need to work out the pecking order. I say give it time and they'll get it straightened out. Dogs are tough and maybe Tori's instincts need to kick in and tell puppy that she's the boss. It's like when you first send your kids off to school and they get picked on, then they know how to deal with it later. 
Good luck!

Beth and Pixie Puff


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Leslie, I am so sorry to hear about Tori having difficulty with the new puppy. As Susan said, Benji welcomed Lizzie with great delight and their personalities match well. We too made sure that his space and his time with us was not encroached upon. The dynamics and hierarchy between them was determined by themselves within a few days. 

I hope that Tori adjusts soon to the new puppy. 

:hug:


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Leslie, As long as the new puppy is REALLY cute, does it matter?? hehe
They will work it out on their own, I'm sure! They all eventually do, right??

Ryan


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Leslie,

I can relate to your problem. When Bailey joined the troops nobody seemed too happy. If you recall, Cagney was head butting him, Milo was wondering who this intruder was and I began to wonder if I'd done the right thing. What I did in the beginning was keep Bailey in the ex pen in the kitchen with the other dogs able to go up to it and interact if they chose to but not be forced to. After a little time I put Milo in there with him for feeding time, then letting him out with the others for finite periods of time till they all adjusted. It didn't take long at all.

Give them both a little time and I'm willing to bet they'll be best buds.

BTW, Milo used to roll and pin Bailey all the time in the beginning. Though it scared me at first, no harm came from it and they adore each other now.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Don't worry Leslie = it will change. She just has to figure out who he is, what he is, is he staying? and most importantly - who will be the alpha.

She will slowly start interacting with him, and in a few weeks they will be inseperable!! I promise.

And if it doesn't work like that - I will fly out and take him off your hands for you


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Oh my. I can remember when Kodi first met Shelby, he hid between my legs until I finally had to leave the room. Maybe Tori is just a little confused about her place now. I really think it will all work itself out. Sometimes it just takes a little while.


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## mitrus (Apr 6, 2008)

We had the same thing happen. Piper(terrier mix) was 10 and not very playful when we brought Daisy home. Piper is so sweet I thought she would become a mother figure to Daisy. But she hated having a puppy in the house. I felt so bad, because Piper had this nice calm life and now she seemed sad all the time. I will never forget that look in eyes saying" help me ". We made sure Piper had places where she could escape to and Daisy could not follow. She is also very sensitive and thought we where getting after her when we where getting after Daisy. We just made sure we praised her so she knew she was not in trouble too. We have had Daisy almost a year and things are very different. It took longer than what I thougt, but things are really good. Piper is so patient with Daisy and sometimes they even play. They will even cuddle together! Just be patient and make sure Tori has a place of her own that she can escape to when she needs a break. Good luck!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Leslie- I know we talked but sending hugs :hug: I was really hoping to hear from you a day later and Tori is now humping the heck out of him! I also thought with you having Rascal there it would have really helped since she is so easy going. Who would have thought a little humper right out of the crate!

I have been lucky in that each addition accepted each other without any drama. Belle and Dora never really wrestled much or played like I hoped for but Belle is Belle. Dash on the other hand was the one who shocked me when I added him. Dora just ignored him for a few weeks and Belle welcomed him like he was the best toy I had ever bought her. Belle (as Tori knows!) has never liked to play with other dogs in fact, I have had more issues with her and other dogs just puppy sitting, at dog parks, etc. I really knew I needed an easy going pup but not one that would be scared (Mickey- the disaster with Belle!) Now, ironically she play with Dash everday. Dash quickly found out with Belle, you play by her rules (she is the one who humps and stands over the other dog) or you don't get to play with her at all. If he wants to play with Belle he will roll on his back and bark at her now! The hard part is how you teach this- I have no clue if you can. I just let it happen and it did quickly. It also shocked me when Dora took alpha. She is a quiet alpha and only reacts when things really get out of hand. She will even let Dash play hump her once in awhile. But after Belle and Dash became buddies, Dora rose up and I would have said that never would have happened and I didn't influence it at all. 

Autumn was the one who got away though. To be honest, I really wanted to keep her. But Belle made that decision clear for our family. Belle just hated her- snarling , bitting, etc. Autumn wasn't even doing anything and Belle would attack her and unfortunately it happened the entire time she was here even the day she left. I think it was because of Autumn's energy. Autumn left Belle completely alone no dominance in fact she was very submissive and even backed up to Dash. But Belle would set herself up to attack her. I just knew when Autumn got bigger, she would one day decide she was sick of being attacked and fight back. And probably by that time she would be at least 10x Belle's size.

Hugs to Tori and you, I just wish we could sit down and explain it to them- Tori this is your new brother, we want you to love him he is YOUR present and if he gets out of hand put him in place. It sounds like snarling and stuff is her way of telling him but maybe he wants the upper hand in the back and is trying to tell her that?

Amanda


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

I don't have any advice since I only have 1 hav...but I'm sure time will change things and a few months from now you wont be able to picture life without him. 
Just like bringing a second child home...the only child may resent him/her a bit at first, but eventually they love and adore each other.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Lots of good advice here, Leslie. I'm sorry to hear this wasn't love at first sight, but I bet if you can be patient another week or two, they will sort it out. I would focus mainly on Tori, and keep the pup in the ex-pen a lot, so she feels in control. I'd give her lots of extra love. Sounds like this pup can fend for himself.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Amy R. said:


> Lots of good advice here, Leslie. Sounds like this pup can fend for himself.


It was realizing this that allowed us to get through it with Jas and Cash. Cash could fend for himself and demanded what he needed or wanted. We tried to be fair with our attention at first... but Jasper just needed a little more to feel all right.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Leslie,
Oh, I'm so sorry to read this! My stomach hurts for your little Tori and how she thinks she is the one in trouble! This does make me think twice about giving in to the MHS urge. I really have no advice to offer other than to love, love, LOVE On Tori. Give her extra kudos. Give her plenty of time with you, with the little one in his pen. And, maybe try to only give verbal corrections to the puppy when you are closer to him than you are to Tori, with your back to her, where she can see you are talking to the pup.

I hope this works out. It has got to be heartbreaking for you.

Sheri and Tucker


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Leslie said:


> Anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to help Tori???


I think all they need is time. Some dogs just take longer to warm up to their new sibling.  Once they work out their packing order, things will get better. I guess I've been really luck cause all my guys took to each other like fish to water.

Good luck,


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

:hug:Leslie - I know EXACTLY how you are feeling. We brought Finnegean home just 3 1/2 weeks ago. Seamus was doing the same thing. He was sick too but now I am beginning to think, the stress from the new pup brought on the "illness". It was BREAKING my heart to see my Seamus this unhappy that it made him sick. And like your little one, Finnegan is relentless!! The only thing I had going was this site, everyone with experience said it would get better, well I am here to tell you it gets better EVERY day. So much so that Seamus actually LOOKS like he is having a GREAT time with Finnegan (at times). It is hard to see our babys looking and feeling sad, but when they realize how much FUN it can be you will both be wondering how you ever lived without a 2nd!!!! Hope this helps you and Tori feel a little better - :hug: to you both & the little one too!


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Leslie, I'm sorry to hear things aren't going swimmingly. Not to worry, it'll all get sorted out in short order! Don't telegraph your worries to the dogs. Try to make each thing they do together is fun, fun, fun! When puppy potties correctly, they both get a treat~that way she will start having positive associations with the new puppy. I would offer her a break sometimes by ex-penning him because it does seem she is stressed out with quite so much of the new guy, but I wouldn't say spoil her when she's on her own or it will only re-inforce that Tori (as the only dog) is such a much better thing!

Even though you saw the video where Rufus and Marley (did I forget to mention I changed his name?) were best of friends immediately....that's not quite the whole truth! When they first met at Kimberly's house Rufus was drooling ropes and his whole beard was soaked he was soooo stressed out with all the puppies. Marley kept coming on strong with him which was just what I wanted--a real go-getter to get Rufus off his butt!  I was a bit worried that Marley would be the dominant one once he got here, but it didn't work out that way at all! Even though Rufus is the calm one, he is the leader and undisputed top dog. Marley is the happy bouncy second in command.

Tori will come to a point where she accepts the new dog and then she will begin to make the rules, including the rules for play! I'm SURE she will love him, once she gets used to him! :whoo:


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## Kenal0 (Nov 11, 2008)

Sounds like a case for the Dog Whisperer- Ceasar Millan


Kenal0


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Hi Leslie,
I am so sorry you and Tori are having a hard time:hug: Brady was not too sure about Dugan when he first came home. Although he was open to playing with him at time, he definately seemed depressed. He would jump up and hide on the couch to get away from Dugan, and look very sad. Brady has the most expressive eyes so it is always hard to see him looking sad. Now, they really have become good buddies. There were a few times where Brady got very nasty with Dugan and scared me too. This ended quickly though. I was very careful to put Brady first. I always gave Brady treats first, let him go outside first, etc. I hope things get better for all of you soon!!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm sorry to read this Leslie,but it sounds like you are getting some good advice. I don't have any with just one hav,but I'm absolutely confident Tori will accept the new pup and you all will love on them both. Hang in there!:hug:


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

Karen - you are so right in putting Brady first! That has helped with Seamus. Now look at them, lying together AWWWWW, they seem like they have been together forever. Hope I can get a picture like that soon!!!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Michelle, Don't let my picture fool you. As much as Dugan would love to cuddle with Brady, he still isn't having it. That picture was from Thanksgiving night when they were both exhausted. Dugan so happened to lay down close to Brady and he let him. It didn't last long. Dugan runs right over to Brady in bed every morning (after I let Dugan out of the crate) and Brady growls. He is having none of Dugan when he is sleepy. I am sure the time will come, but we are not really there yet either.


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

Karen, LOL - OK I don't feel so bad then!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Leslie, I am so sorry things are not working out for now, given a little time they probably will be fine. I would bet Smarty would act the same way, she is never good with visitors except my DS's Standard Poodle.


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Hi Leslie,

It will take time, but they will accept each other, you need to stay positive about it, with them so they feel it. It was Casper aggressive with Missy, we had to let him know what behaviors were ok and what was not when he was playing with Missy. If the new puppy is being too aggressive you will just have teach him correct behavior and\or put him in his ex-pen for separate time.

I really got Missy to keep Casper company when I was at work and they didn't bond for quite some time. I was really dissappointed it took them so long to bond, but the love each other now and if separated really hate it.

Tori sounds like Missy, being sensitve....I was yelling at Casper to not jump(cause of his stitches) and attack the cat, the other day and Missy got so scared at my yelling she would not come in the kitchen for an hour.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Leslie said:


> So far, I've just been letting them try to work it out, but he's a headstrong little cuss, and doesn't seem to be getting, or at least not caring about, the messages Tori's giving. It's hard to see her like this w/him, especially since she's the one we got him for. Ever received a present you absolutely hated? I think that's how she must be feeling. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to help Tori???


Hi Leslie! I _totally_ sympathize. I think only recently has Lincoln truly forgiven us for bringing home Scout almost 2 years ago. Lincoln was very happy being an "only" - but _I_ had bigtime MHS and had to have a second Hav, which I'm sure we can all understand. Scout also is more dominant that Lincoln. He also did not respond to Lincoln's attempts to discipline him. I also tried to let them work it out, but now I regret that. I really think I should have intervened more to teach Scout what he could and could not do to Lincoln.

We finally did start intervening more, and also over time, Scout has mellowed now that he is 2 years old, and Lincoln did finally learn to stand up more for himself (after a year +), but if I could do it over again, I would have put more limits on Scout and given Lincoln more time apart from him when he needed it. Luckily, Lincoln did have a safe place to retreat to, so I hope Tori also has a place she can go to.

I think it won't be fixed overnight, but we can help speed up the peacemaking process. As your puppy matures, some of the crazy puppy energy will dissipate. Just in the last couple of months, Lincoln will actually seek out Scout to engage him in play - it warms my heart! And assuages my guilt!

I am hopeful that your situation will improve too, especially with your loving intervention and with time. :hug:

I just wanted to add that Scout was extremely loving to us. He just viewed Lincoln as his primary canine competition and decided to "take him out" every chance he got. But he was always totally sweet to us. Rascal. If we had only given Lincoln extra attention without also putting more limits on Scout, the situation would have gotten worse for Lincoln -- because Scout would have been more jealous and more bent on eliminating him!


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Wow, this is certainly fascinating. These interactions. A lot like siblings. Hope I'm not biting off too much with planning to bring home a puppy "for Biscuit". Okay, let's be honest, IT'S FOR ME. LOL It seems like some dogs get along better than others. . . it's giving me pause. But not enough to call it off. . .


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Leslie,

I bet they will be the best of friends in no time.

When we brought Sissy home our Golden Retriever thought she was
a rabbit and was biting at her.

I kept them separate and they became friends through the fence. Then
I took Sissy out on a leash to let the golden (Sandy) know that she was allowed.
Pretty soon went out off leash and then they became best of friends.

Is there anyway to separate them and let them smell each other through a gate, etc.

I probably wouldn't lock up Tori because she might feel punished. 

Best of luck.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Leslie, I'm so so sorry about Tori not liking the puppy that much. I'm not too surprised, though, as if you think about it it's just like when you bring a new sibling home. Many kids react the same way and feel jealous and/or threatened. There's always an adjustment period. I don't have a second, but I do think a lot of good advice has been given already to set you in the right direction. And I do think it's great that you posted as well, as many people are afraid of posting what you did and I think it's important for others to see that there is an adjustment period and that it's not always an instant "click" for the dogs, but that eventually they all do get there! Also, I think it's totally normal for you to be feeling the way you are at a time when things are changing so much, it will take everyone - including you, the thinking and knowing adult - some time to adjust. I know this is different, but I remember when I got Kubrick and cried two days later, telling DH that I didn't think I could handle him and we would have to send him back! Now, of course, I know that was just puppy craziness and, of course, learning to deal with a new challenge! I did feel so alone, though, and didn't want to post here as I was afraid of people judging me, so I'm glad you stepped up and told people how you're feeling about the Tori/puppy interaction as it can really help someone else down the line! And I really DO think that Tori and the puppy will get along just great as soon as things settle and everyone knows their place! :hug: to you, as I think you need one right about now. :grouphug:

As an aside, how many of you with dogs that didn't bond straightaway with the new puppy have dogs that are really "doggy dogs?" As in, dogs that prefer other dogs to humans - they love humans, of course (especially their own), but they will play forever with another dog? I know that Brady is like that, but just wondering for my own curiosity.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Lelsie, 
As Lina says, I'm glad you've posted on this. I'll be so anxious to hear how things progress. It does give me information that will be helpful when I am eventually able to add another Hav to our family. Like, make sure I will be at home a lot for as long as possible before having to leave them while going to work. 

Sheri and Tucker


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

good buddy said:


> Leslie, I'm sorry to hear things aren't going swimmingly. Not to worry, it'll all get sorted out in short order! Don't telegraph your worries to the dogs. Try to make each thing they do together is fun, fun, fun! When puppy potties correctly, they both get a treat~that way she will start having positive associations with the new puppy. I would offer her a break sometimes by ex-penning him because it does seem she is stressed out with quite so much of the new guy, but I wouldn't say spoil her when she's on her own or it will only re-inforce that Tori (as the only dog) is such a much better thing!
> 
> *Even though you saw the video where Rufus and Marley (did I forget to mention I changed his name?) were best of friends immediately.*...that's not quite the whole truth! When they first met at Kimberly's house Rufus was drooling ropes and his whole beard was soaked he was soooo stressed out with all the puppies. Marley kept coming on strong with him which was just what I wanted--a real go-getter to get Rufus off his butt!  I was a bit worried that Marley would be the dominant one once he got here, but it didn't work out that way at all! Even though Rufus is the calm one, he is the leader and undisputed top dog. Marley is the happy bouncy second in command.
> 
> Tori will come to a point where she accepts the new dog and then she will begin to make the rules, including the rules for play! I'm SURE she will love him, once she gets used to him! :whoo:


Name change????????????????:earetails:ear:


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Leslie--I am very sad that you and your furbabies are going through this.

Torie is such a sweet heart--I can't believe that she "hates" him. I think she may be confused about this rough house "monster" that has come to live with her and will not leave her alone. 

When we adopted #2 Hav--out #1 Hav was the rough house monster so he fell instantly in love with Hav #2. I do not think it would have worked as well the other way around. 

I am not an expert on dogs, but I would try to separate them as much as possible. Let Torie get curious about that guy on the other side of the fence. Give her a ton of attention. I am sure she can not figure out why this little guy has stolen her attention. there are probably ways to play with both dogs at one time, depending on their interests. Then you can protect Torie from the over zealous pup but have fun with both. Is Torie treat oriented? Can you reward Torie for playing with (tolerating) the pup?

I hope some of the breeders who have more knowledge of this subject weigh in.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Amy R. said:


> Wow, this is certainly fascinating. These interactions. A lot like siblings. Hope I'm not biting off too much with planning to bring home a puppy "for Biscuit". Okay, let's be honest, IT'S FOR ME. LOL It seems like some dogs get along better than others. . . it's giving me pause. But not enough to call it off. . .


I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. I'm sure most of our "first borns" would be devastated now if we took their playmates away. I know Milo would.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Leslie, I am glad you have posted this thread since I am thinking about getting Cicero a playmate in the future. He loves dogs -- but will another one love him? Or just because he loves 'friends' does it mean he will want one living in our home? I don't think I would be happy if it took a year for them to become friends. My daughter brings her yorkie over every night and she hates Cicero. I posted pictures of them at one point - and it hasn't changed. We have tried so hard to get her to play with Cicero, but it's never going to happen...but she is not a Hav. I will be checking back and I do hope they will become buddies very soon !!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Leslie, how is Tori coming along with ???_no name???


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Life isn't fair! I just wrote out a long post telling you all how things are here and when I hit the submit button it was lost!!! :frusty:

Let me start again...

Things may be _marginally_ better, but are far from good. The partial improvement came yesterday when I had them outside. Tori tried to get him to RLH w/her. However, he showed no interest and just wanted to sniff around. I think she may feel better about him outside because she has more space to get away from him out there.

This little guy seems to be Tori's worst nightmare come true. His dominant behavior toward her is so relentless. He is pushing her away from the drinking bottle, her food dish, toys, etc., etc. This AM she was lying near me chewing on a dental chew when he decided he wanted it (his was right there near her). She growled and bared teeth, but he took it anyway. She stood her ground, though, and "attacked him" (he even yelped during the fray), but he got right back up and went for it again! He has absolutely no respect for what she's telling him.

This is _so not_ what I was wanting! I feel very unhappy and troubled about it and I'm sure that's not helping the situation at all. Like Jane w/Lincoln, I just wanted Tori to have someone to keep her company when I go back to work in 3 weeks. Ha! It seems like all I accomplished is finding the best way to torture her 

(hitting the submit button, wish me luck!)


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Leslie,

I think things will start to change very soon and you'll want to save your posts here to remember when things were difficult at first. Just give it a little more time. I remember feeling as if I'd made a mistake in the beginning and I was tired with a little sleep deprivation and all the extra work of a new baby in the house. 

They will find their places in the pack and may surprise you with how it works out. Cagney used to be the alpha with her sister Lacey but it's exactly the opposite now.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I am so glad you posted this thread. With all the multiple Hav families I thought I was being unfair to Smarty keeping her an only child. She hated the time my DD’s dog was here and I blamed Matilda. Smarty was like a different dog, when Matilda left Smarty started acting like a puppy again, she was so happy. This thread has opened my eyes that some are just people dogs.

I’m sure Tori will adjust and so will the puppy. She will probably have to really “get” him for him to gain some respect. Once he is bigger and they can really play it may make a difference. Good luck………keep us posted.


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## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

When I was watching a friend's chihuahua for a week, I was so looking forward to having a buddy for Marley. Marley was all excited and wanted to play, but the chihuahua wanted no part of it and just growled. Marley was more confused than anything....and didn't quite understand what that thing was doing on my lap etc. 

Right at the end of the week, they finally started playing a little bit, a minute here and there and started moving together rather than staying apart..to the door when the bell rang, hanging out closer etc. so I did get the feeling that eventually this would have worked a whole lot better....so I think with some dogs, it's instant love, with others it just takes a little longer. 

I'd say don't give up yet...If you don't see any change in 1-2 weeks from now, then maybe it's time to think about a plan B, but I'd say give it some time..


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Leslie,

This sounds so difficult for you. 

When we got Cali, Chico was a bit upset and really put her in her place, growling at her etc. She would run under the couch where he couldn't reach her and other times, she would roll over submissively for him.

Chico also started marking in the house, too, in protest, I guess.

I know that your situation is different, with the puppy relentlessly bothering Tori and not showing submissiveness. Breeders and others will probably give you suggestions as how to handle the issues you are having.

I remember it being hectic AND fun time, but the details have faded in my mind.
Now, a year later, they are best buddies. They do everything together. 
She is almost as Alpha as he is. I'd say they are equals if that's possible in the dog world, neither seems to be the pack leader.

I hope it works out for you. I do think that time will help.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Leslie, My heart is breaking for you. I know how hard this must be for you, Tori and Jan as well. Hugs


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## joemodeler (Dec 3, 2007)

Hi Lesile.

I am sorry to hear what you are going through but it will work out. As someone stated keep yourself cool around the dogs. It is hard.

We just got our second Hav, Dickson on 11/15, the first, Luna is 21 months old.

Luna was/is on the shy side with other Havs and small dogs (not my brother in-law’s Akita and my sisters three big dogs) but before Dickson came into our lives Luna started to show more and more each day that she was bored of us and wanted to play with other dogs.

The breeder choose a pup that she thought Luna would be alpha and when we got Dickson the breeder told us he was confident and if anything came up let the two dogs work out the alpha role. Luna did show apprehension towards Dickson and at first showed signs that she was going to give up her rein but I made sure to give her a lot of attention to her to boost her confidence. If I recall her apprehension lasted about a day after I started to show this over attention. For the past 2 ½ weeks Luna and Dickson show signs of jealousy and friends. Luna can be motherly and Dickson can be a pest. Luna was a only dog and had her routine. When I try to play and be affection to Luna, Dickson most of the time starts what I believe is jealousy fight by jumping on Luna’s back and pulling and holding Luna’s ears. As my DW stated Dickson has not experienced life much and once he does his confidence will wear thin so that he will be more in line with Luna. I agree. Think of a teenage kid who thinks they are invincible or a freshman in college who is “a know it all” and than life creeps in.

In general they get along and bringing Dickson into the fold was the right decision as clearly Luna is much more happier and tired. I believe Luna has finally come to the realization that Dickson is not going anywhere.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Leslie- I don't have this experience with 2 havs--but I will tell you what I would do. If I were you-I'd make that puppy submissive to you right in front of Tori. If that pup takes Tori chew-take it back and put him on his back firmly in front of her. Water drinking too. I would make sure she did everything first,even if he had to be layed on his back every single time. You don't want to hurt his "puppy-ness" but I would think nothing of giving him firm boundaries till Tori is comfortable doing it herself. I have always read females were more dominate in the havanese breed,but he sounds like a little rascal,and this may/maynot be the case with Tori. I'm sure she'll be fine-but definitely give that puppy firm,very firm boundaries.


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## Salsa's Mom (Mar 18, 2008)

Oh Leslie, I know how heartbroken you must feel. I'm sure they will work it out in time, but I hope things will improve sooner rather than later for you. :hug:


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Leslie, just wanted to give you a :hug:. I do hope that things get better soon.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Leslie- Wow, I'm so sorry you and Tori are having such a hard time. I don't have much advice or experience, since Maddie is an "only child". Tori is such a sweet little girl. I guess she's just overwhelmed by such an alpha type puppy. I hope things get better for you, and it all works out just the way you want it to. Hugs to you. :hug:


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## danak (Jun 17, 2007)

Sounds EXACTLY, except for the drooling, like Itsy and Oli.

Dana


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Leslie I am so sad reading this thread. I wish I had some more advise to give that hasnt already been given. Hugs to you, Tori and Jan.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

A tiny bit of sunshine! They actually played nicely for a few minutes in the backyard a bit ago. It wasn't much, but he wasn't trying to get on her back and she wasn't running away, drooling, growling, etc.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Yeah!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Leslie, that is great! I'm so happy to hear that things are getting better, even if slowly.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Progress, that's great!


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## KristinFusco (Jun 5, 2007)

Things sound as though they are improving, that's wonderful!


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

I think they are finally getting comfortable with one another, Leslie. You've got to look at it from their vantage point~~~~everything is strange and new to puppy, and for Tori, who is this interloper?? And think about how olfactory they are, they have to get used to each other's scent and feel comfortable, not threatened.

That is great news!!


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Leslie, I've been hone way too long it seems  First off: congrats on your new addition. However, I am sad to rad about the troubles you are having. I do believe though, that it will all work out somehow... :hug:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Great job Tori!!! And puppy- way to not hump Tori


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Yay Tori and Puppy!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

That is a little ray of sunshine Leslie! Even her accepting him a little bit shows she is willing to perhaps accept him.:clap2:

By the way---have you come up with a name for him yet?:ear: How about Tugger? He tugs on Tori and tugs on your heart strings!:becky:


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Well, I think we have turned a corner :whoo: After the nice outside play, Tori came in and started eating the kibble in "Little Boy's" dish. When he came over and tried to eat it too, she growled and actually made him stay away so she could eat it. Then, later this evening they were actually playing "bitey face" and not running at or from each other. I am so hoping this continues <fingers crossed> cause it is so much nicer than what we've been seeing.


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Ohhhhh, what a difference a day makes. These stories make my day!!!


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## moxie (Feb 6, 2008)

GREAT news, Leslie. How satisfying for you and DH!!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Oh, Leslie, what a good glimmer of hope! You really needed this, and I hope it just gets better and better!

Sheri and Tucker


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## Salsa's Mom (Mar 18, 2008)

:whoo::whoo::whoo: Sounds like progress!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I only read the first page of your thread here, Leslie and felt sooo sad for you. Then I decided to skip to the end (as I really need to get my butt into bed) and the news is good! :whoo: I think it's important that you feel confident about your decision, not worried for Tori or feeling sorry for her, as she will no doubt pick up on that and it could make her feel even less sure of the whole thing.

If they can get outside and play/run a lot together, then they should be better once they're inside. Tori will see that he isn't quite as threatening as she first thought and, hey, he might even be fun to have around! :biggrin1:


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Hey, wait a minute!! Do you actually think you can get away with a 60+ post thread with NO pictures of the new baby???!! :jaw: I must be missing something..............


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Leslie, I'm so glad things are improving. I really agree with Marj. They do pick up your stress and as hard as it is try to ACT like you are having fun too, lol. 
I'm beginning to realize that these dogs know a lot about taking care of themselves and they work it out. If there is a lot of crying or actual fights then naturally you have to jump in. Otherwise try not to worry. My two steal everything from each other. Sometimes one will lay on our bed right by the ottoman where they get up and not let the other one up. They seem to take turns being the jerk. But, bonded, they are!
hugs,
Carole
ps: Can't wait for tomorrow!!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Leslie, so happy to hear these news!!! I was sure that it would work out like this. Can't wait to see pics of the two of them together.


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## Maxmom (Jul 22, 2008)

:whoo::whoo::whoo:


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Leslie, 

Just a little more time. You're almost home. :whoo:eace:


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

I'm so sorry for all of the stress that you've been going through but it sounds like they've finally turned a corner and are becoming friends. 
Two and a half years ago we brought a three month old kitten home and fell so in love with him. I convinced DH that to be truly happy he needed a kitty buddy to pal around the house with so after MUCH research I ended up getting on a waiting list and a month later brought home Tucker, our Ragdoll. 
I was thrilled with him and was so excited for him and Diesel(our older kitten) to meet and play together. 
Diesel was less than thrilled...at 5 months of age he had already decided that this was his territory and that the kitten was an invader and had to DIE!!!! 
I was SO heartbroken. We kept Tucker in our bedroom for two weeks before they finally met face to face without a gate between them. Tucker climbed over the gate one day while I was cleaning his litterbox and ended up being cornered by Diesel. I swear that my heart stopped beating the moment that I realized what was going on but to my suprise even though Diesel would pin Tucker down and hiss and growl at him he never tried to really hurt him. 
After that it only took a couple of days before they were inseprable...they are great friends now and are together almost all of the time. 
Sometimes it can take awhile for friendships to evolve but that doesn't mean that they won't be friends. Just love them and give it time, they will work it out. :hug:


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Yay!!!! :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

Leslie, so happy to hear this. As I said, we are oing through the same, but things et better each day!


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Marj~ These are so there's nothing missing any longer 

This is what a little boy who's been tormenting his sister looks like, once she decides enough is enough and decides to set him straight! ound:

Sorry for the poor quality, but y'all know how it is trying to catch a good RLH w/a camera


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Awwww! Cute little guy, who has hopefully learned his lessons! You go, Tori!!

Sheri and Tucker


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Awww what a cute blur.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

I've stayed out of this after asking Leslie to post about it to see what others would say. Leslie has already heard my advice, but I thought we needed more than just mine.
I'm really surprised reading this thread and seeing that so many have gone through something similar. That I didn't expect at all. I'm used to bringing a new dog in and setting them down on the floor and watching everyone greet them like their new best friend.
We'll watch and see how things go but it sounds like things are starting to work out.
Maybe it's time for puppy to get a name so they know which one is being talked to?
Tori, tell him off but good when he crosses your boundaries girl. You're allowed that right and I know you have it in you to do. Just ask a man what a female is capable of 
The really funny thing is he totally changed once he got to Leslie's house. I know change is going to happen as they find their pack order but this was a radical change. He did keep his gotta kiss everyone personality though.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

:whoo:Leslie, I am so happy to see things may be turning around. Maybe Tori was unsure about correcting him and afraid she would get in trouble?


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## joemodeler (Dec 3, 2007)

Wonderful news !


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Ha ha ha ha ....Looks like Tori has turned the tables...the look on his face is priceless..."whoa, where did she come from?"


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> I've stayed out of this after asking Leslie to post about it to see what others would say. Leslie has already heard my advice, but I thought we needed more than just mine.
> I'm really surprised reading this thread and seeing that so many have gone through something similar. That I didn't expect at all. I'm used to bringing a new dog in and setting them down on the floor and watching everyone greet them like their new best friend.
> We'll watch and see how things go but it sounds like things are starting to work out.
> Maybe it's time for puppy to get a name so they know which one is being talked to?
> ...


Dollars to donuts he turns back into the little boy who left your house as soon as the dust settles. But Leslie, he does need a name. You're telling the universe he has no home . . . yet, and I bet he has.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Leslie ~ It sounds like the outside play might be a big factor in them getting to know each other and some rules. Maybe Tori feels she has lots of room to feel safe and can show him she is bigger and faster and the BIG sister. I think "he" probably get's out a lot of that puppy energy outside also and will play more gently inside. Wear their little butts out. :biggrin1: I hope you see lots of sunshine in the next few days.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Well, the worst is over. Don't know what finally clicked in his little brain, but he is definitely respecting the boundaries she's setting. This AM she went back to the dish to eat some more of her breakfast (she never finishes it all at once) and when he tried to "horn in" she gave a warning growl and he backed off. Good girl, Tori! Good boy, "baby"! They are playing very nicely next to me right now. :biggrin1:

You all are the best! The advice you gave was spot on. I do wish I'd known to expect such a time to happen with them, though. I think if I'd known it was so common, I wouldn't have been as worried it wasn't working out quickly (it's been 4 days). Like Jan, I was very surprised to read of so many having similar experiences when they added another. I hope this thread will help many when they decide to add #2.

YES, HE NEEDS A NAME! But, we need some serious help. None of the ones we've come up w/seem right. Nothing is "sticking". I'll start another thread for those who like to play the "Name Game".


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

YEAH! So glad to hear the news!


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## Salsa's Mom (Mar 18, 2008)

Yea! Nothing like a rollickin' RLH to start a good hav friendship! You go Tori!


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Leslie, I am so glad to hear the encouraging news! That would give me hope that eventually your two will get along famously! :whoo:

Even though it took us awhile longer, I am so glad to have two havs. They do keep each other company. Just last night, Scout cuddled up to Lincoln and Lincoln didn't move away immediately, like before (okay, he left a few minutes later!) The other night, Scout wanted to play with Lincoln, and instead of attacking him by yanking his ear (bad!), he tossed a toy in front of Lincoln to engage him. I feel like they are finally bonded, in a good way! You will get there too, Leslie! :hug:

Kinda like marriage. Some of them take more work than others!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Jane said:


> Leslie, I am so glad to hear the encouraging news! That would give me hope that eventually your two will get along famously! :whoo:
> 
> Even though it took us awhile longer, I am so glad to have two havs. They do keep each other company. Just last night, Scout cuddled up to Lincoln and Lincoln didn't move away immediately, like before (okay, he left a few minutes later!) The other night, Scout wanted to play with Lincoln, and instead of attacking him by yanking his ear (bad!), he tossed a toy in front of Lincoln to engage him. I feel like they are finally bonded, in a good way! You will get there too, Leslie! :hug:
> 
> Kinda like marriage. Some of them take more work than others!


Jane,
Nice new photos in your avatar and signature.

Sheri


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

So glad things are improving!


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## imamurph (Apr 15, 2008)

Leslie...Whew!! I'm glad to hear that they are finally getting along!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Thank you for the pics, Leslie! :whoo: Like Lina said, 'cute blur'! ound: But it's nice to see the puppy being chased by Tori. I'm sure he's loving every bit of it. I like Julie's advice too and probably would have done some of that if it had happened here. You want to boost the first one's confidence without becoming a crutch and you dont' want to give the new pup the feeling he's not welcome. I'd say, take things one day at a time and you will see Tori feel more and more brave and that will help her relax a little. Puppy is bound to test any and all limits with her and with you. That's what puppies do! :biggrin1:


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## Gracie's Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

Leslie - Late to this thread, but wanted to say I'm happy it is finally working out for you. 

I've thought about getting another dog for Grace, but she doesn't really like other dogs (Except her sister, Roxie). When Roxie is here while her owners are on vacation - she is a different dog. She LOVES her so much she gets ALL of the attention - and has very little left over for us. I think I would love her more as an only dog than a dog that had a live-in friend.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Leslie, I am so happy that Tori and puppy are doing so well. :clap2:


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Leslie, we are so happy things are working out and you can enjoy both your babies. Now I will go back to feeling like Smarty needs a good friend, MHS.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Leslie,
So happy to hear that things are working out.
Now you're really going to enjoy the fun!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I am so happy to hear that things are improving. They will be bff in no time!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

I am glad they are getting a long. How about the name "Tucker" for the little boy?


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## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

*Lesli I am also glad that things are working out now. I guess Tori just had to set that little bugger straight on a few things like - Ladies first. ound: *

*Jan I was wondering what you had to say.*


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Sheri said:


> Jane,
> Nice new photos in your avatar and signature.
> 
> Sheri


Thanks, Sheri! It was time for a change


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Lilly's mom said:


> *Lesli I am also glad that things are working out now. I guess Tori just had to set that little bugger straight on a few things like - Ladies first. ound: *
> 
> *Jan I was wondering what you had to say.*


I've had an eye infection for over a month and am not reading much. I miss coming to the forum


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Leslie, I am so glad Tori and Baby are working out. what a relief. Missy


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm happy they are doing better together. Now, I can go back to my wanting....


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