# Can�t tell when he�s peeing outside



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

*Can't tell when he's peeing outside*

I'm not frustrated, I know I need to be patient, but I'm insecure that the potty training plan I have isn't going to work.

Hands down the hardest thing is that I cannot tell when he's peeing outside, not ever. So I don't know how to reinforce outside potty with treats and praise.

Inside he has a specific pose he does. He always does it when he pees, but he does it without peeing, too, which is why it's tricky outside when the grass is in the way. The obstacle inside is teaching him to use the "inside potty." I read to move him to the inside potty if you catch him peeing, and I catch him almost every time because I'm always watching him. But every time I pick him up to move him he stops peeing and if I put him on the potty he doesn't go. How long should I wait? Am I supposed to hold him there? He always just wanders off, so I keep putting him back, and he doesn't go and it gets tiring so I let him leave.

Back to outside potty, I have to say, I have never been so impressed with people who potty train boy puppies in my life. First of all, it's like impossible to tell when he's peeing. There isn't any sound, I can barely see the stream, and it's so quick! The first few days I took him out on a schedule, which is my preference, but it was pointless because I could never tell if he peed or not so after a while I just took him inside and a few minutes later he'd pee on the floor. I heard people say they caught their puppy peeing so they picked him up and took him outside and i thought, okay I can do that. Now I'm like, how do they do that??!! I'm grabbing the puppy, trying to find my shoes, trying to remember where I put down the treats when I picked up my shoes (just in case he goes), realizing it's freezing, and then we're outside - and the puppy is just running around because he's so excited to be outside, and after only 3 minutes he's shaking because of the cold, and I can't take the cold, either, so we're back inside. And it's not even winter here yet!

Which brings me to the last thing - it really isn't that cold here yet compared to how it will get, it's been in the upper 40's this week. We have snow here, but I live in the mountain west where it is a tolerable, dry cold, typically we have 3-4 inches of snow in our yard but it's also sunny at the same time. It's nothing like the wet, deep, constant snow/freeze of the Midwest (my sister lives there) or other parts of the country (and Canada , and I know a lot of you are in very cold climates with snow and have said your puppies and dogs are just fine going outside in the winter. I have decided to do a mix of indoor and outdoor potty for my family's sake - my daughter is the only one who loves the snow. But I'm wondering, is it normal for a puppy to be so cold in this temperature? Should I be preparing to put him in something to go outside?

I'm on my way to get the pine pellets I tracked down today, but I'm not sure how much it will help since I can't get him to go on the pad.

I'm in it for the long haul, but I need a plan.

Help?


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

We don't have a male dog, so we're not sure this is helpful, but when Shama was a puppy, we could tell the difference between her sitting in the grass and her peeing in the grass by the direction of her back paws. They angled outward when she was peeing.

I could swear I've heard and/or read to NOT try to move a peeing dog since it's too late. They'll stop peeing, or they'll pee all the way from point A to point B, making a mess. I think I've read that you have to severely limit where a puppy can be until he is potty trained. He's in his crate or his pen or a small space or tethered to you until you take him out to potty then play for a while either outside or inside or both and then back to severe space limits until next potty opportunity.

Good luck! Shama had many accidents when we were still trying to figure things out, but I can't remember the last time she's had an accident. She's reliable now, even in settings outside our home, like at the training facility and in other people's houses.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

In the beginning Tux had an exercise pen 3'x6' with a waterproof washable twin bed sized pad that filled the bottom area and was held down by the perimeter of the pen. He stayed there next to my desk until he had better bladder control. I began to make note of how often he peed whether by accident or on command outside. He needed to pee every 45 minutes when very young. When he peed in his pen, I would nicely say, "potty outside" and I would pick him up and carry him outside and say, "go potty". The end goal is to get the timing down so that you can carry them out before they pee indoors. Carrying them when their bladders are unpredictable, is one way to ensure they make it outside in time. If they don't pee right away, take them back inside and wait a few more minutes. Don't let going outside become play time. Each month of age, they can wait longer and longer between pee trips. Tux now only takes a minute to go pee on command and is ready to go back inside. (We live in oppressive heat). The pooping was pretty much easy because they seem to have a bit more control of that one. You need to watch for the signals that they are about to do that. It usually involves sniffing or circling. I now wait 5-6 hours between trips. 

I am adamant that my dog does not use the indoors to pee. You want to be able to rely on the fact that they will hold it until given the opportunity to go outside. If they think "inside" is okay, then you have no control if you take them somewhere like someone else's home. It's difficult when their bladders are so immature, but so worth it in the end to have a perfectly potty trained pet.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

I had the same problem in the beginning trying to tell if Perry was peeing or if he was just standing there. It took a while, but then I realized there was small posture changes - he flexes his back legs just slightly... and then I realized that he also looks back to the side when he's peeing. 

Is there a place you can take him outside that is dirt but doesn't have grass? That might make it easier to see if he's peeing and then you might be able to see a slight difference in posture. You could do this every 30 minutes to start and keep track of if he's going every time or every other, then you could lengthen it (45 minutes, 1 hour, etc) Once you know he's reliable within an hour and you can see when he's doing it outside (so you don't go back in til he does), then you can let him a little more freedom so that he can start to tell you at the door when he wants to go out. 

I also agree that instead of watching him closely initially, you should either confine him into an expen OR tether him to you. Tethering won't stop the peeing inside (Perry has done it once or twice sitting right next to me attached to his leash inside the house) but makes it harder. I also agree to carrying him out until he's safe. Even at over a year, when we stay in a hotel, I carry Perry from his crate to outside so that he doesn't decide it's taking too long as we walk down the hall, wait for the elevator, etc. Even in the house, if it's been a while in his crate or I'm worried that he's not yet reliable, I carry him outside especially first thing in the morning. A big advantage of having a small dog!


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## Barbara Levy (Apr 22, 2016)

I am laughing about not being able to tell if he peed. Loki came home in June. His legs were so short and the grass was long. I would pick him up and look to see if his pee pee was wet. Thinking back now makes me laugh and miss my tiny puppy. But it is easier with him perfectly house broken. He uses his UGoDog if we aren't home and rings the bell if we are home. At other people's homes, he rings there bell or just sits by the door. In stores or at class, he will pull toward the door if he needs to go. He is such a good boy!


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## wrldtravlr345 (Aug 14, 2017)

It's so hard in the beginning. I could not tell either, we just keep going out every hour and then he finally did the 'stance' which involves stretching out his back legs and then he pees, always looking back. He is 6 months now and been accident free for over a month now. Yay!!

I think they adjust to the weather better than us!! I would rather attend with hi, outside to quickly do his business than cleaning a potty area. We also have done walks at -20C as he doesn't like to miss a walk although it's a short one. He's a crazy Canadian!!! Lol

Good luck, he will improve it really takes time and consistency like others have mentioned. We did the ex pen and crate as well and very effective. He has not had an accident in either.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

He hasn’t ever had an accident in his carrier or crate, now that it’s here, or on any soft furniture. So that part completely clicks with me. In the morning and once each night (around 4am) he is going outside now - so my family tells me! He hasn’t done this with me yet. Tonight’s my turn so we’ll see!

I have been keeping track of accidents since he came home and he can go long stretches without an accident when we’re out and he’s in his carrier or at home when he’s being held. I’ve been gradually increasing his time alone, but he isn’t ready to be left yet long enough for me to run errands, so he’s spent a lot of time out of the house for carpool, etc. and never has accidents. But at home he often pees every fifteen minutes, sometimes even every 5. I assume that’s where the crate training comes into play and why it’s so effective. The correct size crate I ordered came yesterday, so he’s been getting used to that. He goes in it on his own to hang out. I was going to use the puppy Kong to start closing the door but so far he’s not interested in what I put in it. 

Today’s goal is to tighten up our schedule to keep him too busy to pee randomly when it’s inside playtime. I hope that will help. And hopefully I can start closing the crate door today so that this weekend I can practice leaving for longer periods of time. 

Maybe he’s still adapting to the cold since he’s from a warmer state. I have decided to do need a warmer coat for myself, though, for sure, to go outside so many times each day! 

How do you distinguish between outside playtime and outside potty time? Do you make separate trips? 

If I want him to go in a certain area, like an area with gravel where I can see better, how would I go about that? Do I just keep putting him back?


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Barbara Levy said:


> His legs were so short and the grass was long.


Yes! We keep our grass a little long for water conservation in our climate, but it's probably a good time to cut it a little shorter. I didn't think of that. It's so cute when he runs in the grass because he's so tiny, and the grass is really green and tall right now, and he does his adorable little hop-run! I need to take pictures before he grows and the grass goes dormant.



Barbara Levy said:


> He uses his UGoDog if we aren't home and rings the bell if we are home.


This is exactly my goal. Was he completely outside trained before adding the potty? Our breeder introduced paper training morning and night and took him outside during the day, but I have not been able to get him to go in a designated place even once.

I would much rather clean a potty every time he goes than go outside in the dark in the winter because I'm a huge baby. In a perfect world my goal would be inside when it's dark and outside during the day. But right now I'm willing to give up my preferences and I'll settle for just getting a good schedule down.


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

I keep uggs or similarly designed house shoes next to the front door for my trips outside for potty times. I also have a bulky grandma sweater on the hook next to the leashes. I sympathize, my friend. My boy is almost a year old and I can't hardly tell when he goes in the leaves in the wooded area next to the garage. My two girls go immediately when I say go potty but not my boy. He and I meander. I put the girls back in the house and wait several minutes for my more mature boy. 

Timing when to go out by setting the timer on your stove after pet meals helps at my house. I don't have any wisdom for the every five minute pee breaks other than make sure your little guy doesn't have a UTI.

And, I tethered Kosmo to me while I worked at the desk. Otherwise, he would mark. This marking has been eliminated by good old father time and consistency.

I am also not offering an inside option for elimination. I think outside training is easier this way.

Yes, once I picked up my newest girl while she was peeing in the house and was rewarded with a line of pee leading to the front door. That was sure lovely. 

You are going through the toughest thing about puppy ownership, but time fixes things.

Anti Icky Poo, by the gallon on Amazon for $40.


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## Paddington (Feb 15, 2016)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> But at home he often pees every fifteen minutes, sometimes even every 5.


Hi,

I had a similar problem with Paddington peeing every 5 minutes until my trainer figured out Paddington thought it was a game. You may have a similar problem -I wrote a reply post on this for someone else, so try searching for that if you are interested. Remove him from the area while you clean up his mess, not as a punishment but simply so that he doesn't get to see you clean up.


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## Henry&Kate (Mar 29, 2017)

For trips outside, I decided on one smallish area near the house to be the potty area. So we only go there when it's a potty trip. If he starts to play around too much, I'll take him back in. When we go out to play we go into the main yard. And Henry peed a lot as well. Sometimes when we went out he would pee 3 times in a short period of time even though he could hold it through the night or a longer car trip. I talked to my vet about it and she said he was fine. No UTI, which is much less likely in a male dog anyway. Some dogs just do pee several times. He's 4 1/2 months now and _I think_ he's peeing less frequently now.

I do still carry him out in the morning when I take him from his crate because we sleep upstairs and it's seems a long way to outside. We stayed in a hotel for the first time on Thursday night. I was a nervous wreck but we made it without accidents. And I too carried him out there just to be certain.

he does have a litter box available but clearly would prefer to go outside. but if I'm not available to take him will use the pine pellet litter instead. We haven't had any indoor accidents at home because I make sure he knows where the litter is or he is confined to his expen. I don't trust him in other indoor places though because I'm not certain I'll see the signs that he wants to go out. Last week in class he started to poop! But I have to take most of the blame for that. I was running late and didn't take enough time with him outside before class and then misread his warning to me as excitement with all the other dogs.


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## Hava Novice (Aug 30, 2016)

I know it is a frustrating time, but if you persevere in being conscientious, it will get better. I had a hard time in the beginning telling when Oreo was peeing in the grass too because he was so short and fluffy that I couldn't see underneath him. I finally realized that when he pees, his tail bobbles up and down (almost like a little tremor), versus side to side wagging. He was 99% trained by the time he was 4 months old, but I was very consistent with him. He did not get any loose playtime in the house until I was sure he had peed, and then it was only about 10-15 minutes. I payed close attention to when he drank, and made sure to take him out 10-15 minutes afterwards. Good luck!!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Henry&Kate said:


> For trips outside, I decided on one smallish area near the house to be the potty area. So we only go there when it's a potty trip. If he starts to play around too much, I'll take him back in. When we go out to play we go into the main yard.


We decided to use the side yard for potty and the front yard more for play, so now when we go to the side yard he pretty much pees right away. I also realized the rest of my family was engaging with him when it was outside potty time before he peed, so he would sort of regress after the weekend. As soon as we cleared that up, it made a huge difference!

I carry him down to potty when I take him late at night and in the morning, too! I didn't know that was a real strategy! I just noticed if he really had to go he would wander away and do it before we made it outside, but he never pees if anyone is holding him or if he's on any kind of fabric, which is awesome.

Well, there is one exception. He is terrified of the sound of the shower, and he has tiny accidents whenever anyone leaves him to take a shower. The problem is that the mudroom is right under the bathroom, so the shower is loudest in both of the safe places to leave him (the other is on our bed). I tried taking him in the bathroom with me and letting him play on the floor but he completely freaked out as soon as I turned the shower on, even though he wasn't even near it. We have never used a shower or sprayer on him, but he really hates it. For now I'm just getting up earlier to shower before my kids go to school, but we'll come back to this soon - it's on the list after leash training, which is what we're working on this week!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

When Shama was little, she was curious about the shower, so I coaxed her in (water not turned on) with a toy or maybe by just putting her in. From then on, she liked to sniff around in there periodically. When either of us are in the shower, she likes to lie on the rug right outside the shower. All that to say, maybe you could give your dog treats while he checks out the shower area without the water running then eventually turn the water on to eventually end up with a dog who will be relaxing nearby while you shower. Check out this related kikopup video:


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Yes! We keep our grass a little long for water conservation in our climate, but it's probably a good time to cut it a little shorter. I didn't think of that. It's so cute when he runs in the grass because he's so tiny, and the grass is really green and tall right now, and he does his adorable little hop-run! I need to take pictures before he grows and the grass goes dormant.
> 
> This is exactly my goal. Was he completely outside trained before adding the potty? Our breeder introduced paper training morning and night and took him outside during the day, but I have not been able to get him to go in a designated place even once.
> 
> I would much rather clean a potty every time he goes than go outside in the dark in the winter because I'm a huge baby. In a perfect world my goal would be inside when it's dark and outside during the day. But right now I'm willing to give up my preferences and I'll settle for just getting a good schedule down.


I can understand why you would not want outside in the dark freezing cold weather. I just got back from watering the lawn after Scout went out. I'd rather not go out when its dark, cold and windy, but he will only go outside. Truffles was trained to go on pee pads and didn't like going outside for the first year. Now she prefers to go outside also. I still keep pee pads out for her because if it is cold she will use them. She's a big baby! Scout will whimper when he needs to go out when we are sleeping. Truffles will just go downstairs and use the pee pads.


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