# Peepad AND Outdoor Trained



## veridea (Apr 26, 2012)

Hi everyone! Last time I checked in, Pickles was having a "wee" bit of trouble with mistaking other things (like my boyfriend's crumpled up jeans) for his peepad. Since then, he's gotten the hang of our setup, and has about a 90% success rate indoors. (He's just over 13 weeks). Outdoors, he's just perfect! Within minutes of hitting a patch of grass, he does his business. 

Now here's my thing - I have lovely, well-meaning coworkers who are really into dogs and dog training. One of them in particular is quite rigid about potty training. He got a bit upset when I mentioned that I plan to continue the use of peepads when Pickles is an adult, due to heat waves, rain storms, (crazy people at night), and the fact that we live in a loft in an industrial area with heavy traffic and few appropriate grassy spots. He thinks it's just not appropriate in any situation, and that I'm ruining my dog. I take my pup outside about 3 times a day, and I do hope he'll prefer to potty outside to inside when he's older, but considering it takes a good five minutes to walk to a patch of grass in my neighbourhood, solely outdoor training is just not an option for me. Pickles was raised with peepads and outdoor access, and I just want to let him continue naturally. I have a cat as well, so cleaning up after a pet inside is no big hassle at all. 

Has anyone else run into this kind of negativity? He's coming over to meet the pup tomorrow, and I kinda feel like I should hide away his peepads.


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## emichel (May 3, 2012)

Even though I'm new at all this, to, it sounds to me like your system is working great. It's a lot better for him to go potty in the house than to go out in a possibly sketchy neighborhood in the middle of the night. Just my 2 cents worth.

-- Eileen


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## jhlsea (Mar 17, 2012)

I know what you mean. Not personally. But I've done a lot of research online on pee pad training tips, and most conversations devolve into attacks on pee pad users. Which I think is ridiculous. Some people live in high rises in big cities and finding a patch of grass in these cases is difficult. 

I am also in the process of training my dog to use both the pee pad and outdoors. He's 12 weeks old now, but he's still having problems. Especially with rugs. There's a rug on the porch and sometimes he'll pee there when the grass is literally only 1 ft away. Do you have any tips?


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

Hi...Whimsy was trained to strictly use a pee pad and if anyone I know doesn't like it they can simply go to hell.  Remember,,, It is your dog and how you raise it is your business. period.


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## Sparkle (May 17, 2012)

I like Whimsy's way of thinking!


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## ShirleyH (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm predicting that Pickles will naturally prefer outdoors, but I'm certainly happy we have both. Keeper wants to go outside, but if it's raining, he doesn't do falling water and all I have to say is 'it's raining' and he runs for his pad. It's a wonderful combination of methods. Go for it.

Keeper's Mom


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Who cares what other people think, that's your business. I had a discussion with my brother about invisible fences, which he uses, he said I'm nuts for not getting one, oh well his decision not mine. Just to add my two cents, I really wanted Timmy to use pee pads and go outside, but now he will only go outside. I still have his pad set up but he hasn't used it in months. Maybe that will change next winter when there's two feet of snow. He's just about 8 months old so he hasn't really experienced winter yet and this past winter was like summer.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

You're doing it right. I doubt that person has as much experience as I do.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

At close to 6, Henry still does not quite grip the difference between the pee-pad and say, the bathmat. Seems compelled to go on the mat at time (so I keep it up off the floor).
I do not think he quite understands the difference between pee-pees indoors /outdoors. Meaning some dogs would never ever go outside.
Well, at least he is not going on major pieces of furniture!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I WISH Tillie would have taken to a pee pad/ugodog, ANYTHING for an indoor option... sigh... I tried and tried and TRIED and it was NOT happening... she is 100% outdoors and has been since she was 4 months old...
stick with the indoor option FOR SURE and don't listen to what others have to say!


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Tell him to mind his own business. 

It seriously pisses me off when people think they have the right to tell you how to raise your dog (or worse SHOW you how do do it right). People seem to have no qualm to even come up and smack your dog because they've decided you aren't "strict" enough. This has happened to me. The co-worker got smacked right back.


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## emichel (May 3, 2012)

misstray said:


> Tell him to mind his own business.
> 
> It seriously pisses me off when people think they have the right to tell you how to raise your dog (or worse SHOW you how do do it right). People seem to have no qualm to even come up and smack your dog because they've decided you aren't "strict" enough. This has happened to me. The co-worker got smacked right back.


Good, and I hope you smacked him hard. That is horrible! 

We've been running some errands and we passing by the vet, where he is scheduled in 2 weeks, just for an introduction. A woman with a cat in the waiting area, who never heard of Havanese dogs, proceeded to give me a long winded lot of advice that contradicted most of what I heard from more reliable sources. Everybody has an opinion, and it's hard to know who to listen to sometimes. I'm pretty sure it's not a woman with a cat who has never heard of a Havanese, though. 
-- Eileen

To the OP (Veridea) -- your coworker sounds like a jerk. I don't think you should hide the pee pads from him, you should hide the puppy from him. But then I have no right to tell you what to do, either.


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## Lsprick (Jul 8, 2010)

One of the main reasons why I'm on this particular forum is to "listen" to all the expert advice for our breed. I've been a pet dog owner all my life but now I'm a connoisseur of the Havanese. So I have alot to learn! 

One of the best things I read a while back about agility is "Run the dog you brought." So I say do what you think is best for your dog and stand up for that. You are his/her best advocate.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

veridea said:


> Hi everyone! Last time I checked in, Pickles was having a "wee" bit of trouble with mistaking other things (like my boyfriend's crumpled up jeans) for his peepad. Since then, he's gotten the hang of our setup, and has about a 90% success rate indoors. (He's just over 13 weeks). Outdoors, he's just perfect! Within minutes of hitting a patch of grass, he does his business.
> 
> Now here's my thing - I have lovely, well-meaning coworkers who are really into dogs and dog training. One of them in particular is quite rigid about potty training. He got a bit upset when I mentioned that I plan to continue the use of peepads when Pickles is an adult, due to heat waves, rain storms, (crazy people at night), and the fact that we live in a loft in an industrial area with heavy traffic and few appropriate grassy spots. He thinks it's just not appropriate in any situation, and that I'm ruining my dog. I take my pup outside about 3 times a day, and I do hope he'll prefer to potty outside to inside when he's older, but considering it takes a good five minutes to walk to a patch of grass in my neighbourhood, solely outdoor training is just not an option for me. Pickles was raised with peepads and outdoor access, and I just want to let him continue naturally. I have a cat as well, so cleaning up after a pet inside is no big hassle at all.
> 
> Has anyone else run into this kind of negativity? He's coming over to meet the pup tomorrow, and I kinda feel like I should hide away his peepads.


Get used to it! Whether you have animals or kids, someone is ALWAYS going to think that they know better.. As long as you are treating your animal kindly and fairly, and the animal is conforming to YOUR behavioral expectations, don't worry about what other people have to say.

A lot of people who have bigger dogs are completely unfamiliar with the concept of indoor potty solutions for little dogs. I wouldn't want a Newfoundland peeing in the house either!!!ound: but for our little dogs, who don't have weather-protective coats, and ESPECIALLY for people who live in apartment situations, it makes a HUGE amount of sense.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jabojenny said:


> Who cares what other people think, that's your business. I had a discussion with my brother about invisible fences, which he uses, he said I'm nuts for not getting one, oh well his decision not mine. Just to add my two cents, I really wanted Timmy to use pee pads and go outside, but now he will only go outside. I still have his pad set up but he hasn't used it in months. Maybe that will change next winter when there's two feet of snow. He's just about 8 months old so he hasn't really experienced winter yet and this past winter was like summer.


Just as a bit of a warning... We had to watch Kodi like a hawk at the beginning of his first two winters... He also prefers to go outside (especially to poop) over his inside litter box. When we first had snow each of those first years, he didn't want to poop in the snow, but he also didn't want to poop in the litter box. We really had to keep an eye on him to make sure that he chose one of those two options. That meant that if he wouldn't go outside, we needed to gate him near us, where the litter box was, so that he couldn't sneak off and find another alternative. Eventually he would cave and use the litter box.

This last winter, he would sometimes hold it a long time before deciding that the bad weather wasn't going to suddenly change, but he didn't need the constant supervision to remind him about his box. Eventually, he'd just go use it on his own.

He reminds me of myself with porta-potties... i'll hold it as long as I can hoping for a better option, but if that's REALLY all there is, I'll use it!ound:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

gelbergirl said:


> At close to 6, Henry still does not quite grip the difference between the pee-pad and say, the bathmat. Seems compelled to go on the mat at time (so I keep it up off the floor).
> I do not think he quite understands the difference between pee-pees indoors /outdoors. Meaning some dogs would never ever go outside.
> Well, at least he is not going on major pieces of furniture!


I think this is the BIG advantage to either a litter box or a UgoDog. The texture is really different from anything else in the home. I've heard of SO many dogs who confuse pee pads with small scatter rugs, especially if the scatter rug is light in color.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

misstray said:


> Tell him to mind his own business.
> 
> It seriously pisses me off when people think they have the right to tell you how to raise your dog (or worse SHOW you how do do it right). People seem to have no qualm to even come up and smack your dog because they've decided you aren't "strict" enough. This has happened to me. The co-worker got smacked right back.


OMG!!! I can't even imagine what I would do if someone laid a hand on my dog, but there would probably need to be police involved!!!:jaw:


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

krandall said:


> I think this is the BIG advantage to either a litter box or a UgoDog. The texture is really different from anything else in the home. I've heard of SO many dogs who confuse pee pads with small scatter rugs, especially if the scatter rug is light in color.


 I have heard that also....I am so grateful that I have never had this problem with Whimsy and her pee-pads. Maybe because the pad is in a tray and that makes it different from a throw rug.


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## BennyBoy (Apr 25, 2012)

Let me ask you this, if your dog was a Lab or a Golden, would you still have them peeing and pooping in the house?

I am not a believer in dogs - regardless of how small their poop may be! - doing their business in the house.


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## DeeDee (Sep 4, 2011)

I can't say it any better than it's already been said, only echo it. It's individual choice ... Or maybe the dog's choice if it knows both worlds. Kiki learned pee pads and the big outdoors. I'd say by six months she was mostly an outside dog. She rings the poochie bells when she hears the call of nature. I leave pee pads out b/c I like knowing she has an option if I'm gone too long. I often wish, like now when the mosquitos are out of control, that she was more of an indoor type.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

BennyBoy said:


> Let me ask you this, if your dog was a Lab or a Golden, would you still have them peeing and pooping in the house?
> 
> I am not a believer in dogs - regardless of how small their poop may be! - doing their business in the house.


Keep in mind my hav is 100% trained outside ... and I WISH she had an indoor option... and I live in CALIFORNIA where the weather is no where near as bad as you guys have on the east coast...
Have you gone through a winter yet?? MANY, MANY, MANY, if not all havs refuse to go out in BAD weather (think snow storm, monsoon, hurricane, tornado, -20 degrees wind chill, etc) ... and forcing a little hav to go out in this weather could actually hurt them, not to mention scare the pants off of them!! How would YOU feel if I made you go out to go potty in the middle of a nasty storm? I don't see anything wrong with having an indoor option, so long as the dog UNDERSTANDS it is NOT a 'free for all' and he can NOT potty anywhere he pleases! ONLY in his approved spot (pee pad, litter box, ugodog).
Big dogs are different in many ways... first off being, they will NOT get lifted off the ground in severe wind! LOL

ALSO, another thing is that sometimes people live in big cities and don't HAVE an outside option, but have the time and love to give a small dog ... would it be fair to just say NO, you can't have a dog because he/she can't be trained to go outside.?

I respect you and your opinions, please try to see this from different perspectives...


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the fact that my dogs know they can use their pee pads if they can't go outside for some reason!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

BennyBoy said:


> Let me ask you this, if your dog was a Lab or a Golden, would you still have them peeing and pooping in the house?
> 
> I am not a believer in dogs - regardless of how small their poop may be! - doing their business in the house.


But they are NOT Labs or Goldens. People who want their dogs to go outside all the time can do that. For those of us who choose another option, that's fine too. I love that Kodi can and will go inside OR out. It makes my life a LOT easier in bad weather. There are only so many times a day that I want to blow dry a sopping wet dog.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

My only experience is with a Scottie, albeit still a small dog. I trained him (12years ago) on newspaper. I slowly moved the paper outside while at the same time bringing him out to do his business. He caught on pretty quickly and was very trustworthy! He hated rain and snow and would hold it a long time until I would physically bring him out to a shovelled back deck or close to the front door. I would say "go pee" and he would finally relieve himself. It never changed his whole 12 years.
This will be my first time using pee pads, so I will see what Ted does. He will be close to the back door which I have put bells on and I will put him on a schedule. I'm home all day, so I am hoping again for outside, but peepads will be down in his pen for those "incase" times when I have to nip out.
It sounds all good doesn't it. I'm sure it will all fall apart when I get him home next Friday!ound:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lise said:


> My only experience is with a Scottie, albeit still a small dog. I trained him (12years ago) on newspaper. I slowly moved the paper outside while at the same time bringing him out to do his business. He caught on pretty quickly and was very trustworthy! He hated rain and snow and would hold it a long time until I would physically bring him out to a shovelled back deck or close to the front door. I would say "go pee" and he would finally relieve himself. It never changed his whole 12 years.
> This will be my first time using pee pads, so I will see what Ted does. He will be close to the back door which I have put bells on and I will put him on a schedule. I'm home all day, so I am hoping again for outside, but peepads will be down in his pen for those "incase" times when I have to nip out.
> It sounds all good doesn't it. I'm sure it will all fall apart when I get him home next Friday!ound:


Just remember that pee pads alone (i.e. not in a frame like a UgoDog, or another potty option like a litter box) can have a couple of problems. First, many dogs trained to pee pads have difficulty differentiating between scatter rugs, particularly light colored ones, and pee pads. So these dogs tend to have more accidents.

Second, many Havanese are paper shredders, and some are paper EATERS. For these dogs, pee pads just become a play thing, clean or used. At best this can make a mess, at worst, it's a health hazard if they actually ingest the plastic backed pads. I speak from experience on this one... For travel, a pee pad would be SO much easier than Kodi's litter box. But he finds them irresistable to EAT!!!:biggrin1:

So if you plan to use pee pads rather than a litter box, I would STRONGLY suggest going with one of the "frame" systems, that hold the pad in place. Best is something like the UgoDog that actually FEELS different under foot than a scatter rug would. (it has a plastic grating that goes over the pad). It also protects the pad most completely.


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## Alcibides (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm so glad Verdia brought this up. I've had the same issue with friends (mostly my kids who are lab people as we were before this joyful Havanese). They are mega critical of my keeping Lucky (who at 5 months knows his name but does not reliably come when called) on a lead outside (and sometimes inside when their two big chocolates are moving like a force through the house) AND having the pee pad option inside. Lucky is still up before 6 am and now doing his business outside in the morning (and progressively more during the day) but he still goes on the pad when necessary. Per Tom's suggestion for praise in both places, and since the pee pad option has been in place longer, I say "thank you" or "good boy" when he uses the pad, but reward with a treat when he does it outside. SOmeday it will be good boy either way. It's hard when folks see the pad (and Lucky who is a great shredder thankfully leaves these alone) and says "Still?" or "What??" but I think as others are saying (and this forum is so reinforcing in this way), it's most important to realize that this is YOUR dog, idiosyncrasies and all, and whatever passing comment a friend wants to offer YOU are in charge (important for the puppy to know too). Good luck with the training inside and out. It's been a struggle here too but I think it's important to track progress not day by day but over time. Yesterday looked a lot like today, but a month ago he was mistaking bath mats for pee pads and now that doesn't happen, two months ago the idea of going outside was simply beyond reach-now he gets it. Over time (and not huge chunks of time), the growth and change is remarkable. These are amazing little dogs and knowing them well is a joyful adventure.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Some people just like to be critical and self righteous, annoying trait, that's for sure.

We did the outdoor/indoor thing and it works for us. I like that in the middle of the night, if Gucci has to pee, she'll go use the pad and won't wake me up (most of the time) and we travel, so the convenience of that..and the weather, Hurricanes, storms..the pad is handy. I use mostly reusable/washable ones (which are also an alternative for the shredders)

I don't think you are ruining your dog, and even if you were..its your dog to ruin. I take full responsibility for some of the bad habits I have created, but I don't' see why anyone else should care as they pay no consequences nor does it effect their lives in any way good or bad..lol

Kara


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