# Forgotten what she knows?



## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

Lucy: she's going on 8 months old. She's been through puppy kindergarten, and half a beginners obedience training class (clicker-style). She knew sit and drop very well. Two weeks ago we brought home her half-brother who is 4 months old. Four days later we had her spayed. Since the spay, she's been a brat and just gives me a blank stare when I ask her to sit or drop. At first I thought it may have been uncomfortable and might have had more patience. Now after watching her run around with her brother and wrestle with him, I don't think it's a pain thing. 

What is happening to my smart puppy? Did they fry her brain during surgery? Did I "ruin" her after surgery by pampering her too much? Is she turning into a teenager yet? Is it because her brother doesn't know a thing and she watches him get away with not having to do anything?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Well, she is CERTAINLY the right age for the "teenage brain" to kick in. But I am sure she is also distracted by little brother. Just keep working with her patiently and you'll get it back.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Our dogs need constant reinforcement until it becomes habit, your girl is still young. At our house everyone even guests are shown how to make the dogs do a trick (sit, heel, roll, dance) when giving any treat, it helps with reinforcement.

Of course it is more fun to chase the new brother, he is a live toy that keeps her on her toes!


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

They are so fun to watch together. I must admit I was alarmed when I groomed Lucy last night and finally know what mats are...at least I pray that's as bad as it will get. Little hunks of balled up hair. And her mustache is shorter on one side...a little grooming done by brother Charlie?


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Diann said:


> They are so fun to watch together. I must admit I was alarmed when I groomed Lucy last night and finally know what mats are...at least I pray that's as bad as it will get. Little hunks of balled up hair. And her mustache is shorter on one side...a little grooming done by brother Charlie?


I have written in other threads about how Augie's coat has taken a MAJOR beating since little bro came to live. He lost a lot of facial hair, most of his topknot - and what is left is frayed and ragged. Finn has swallowed more little topknot bands - they do come through the other end! ound:

I hate to be the bearer of unpleasant news, but if you are describing the mats as 'little hunks of balled up hair', I don't think you have seen the worst of the matting process. We had golf-ball sized mats here. And it is like they just come out of nowhere. Maybe you will be one of the lucky ones who hardly notices when coat blowing occurs!


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

thanks, Linda.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Have to agree with the others. Definitely a chance of adolescence, causing some of this. I think more so that you haven't proofed these things ,ie tested them in more difficult circumstances. Gee what dog wouldn't want to play with its sibling rather than doing a stupid down. LOL. I love quoting Jean Donaldson on this sort of question ...

"Training Regressions By Jean Donaldson
People are terribly mystified by any change in their dog's behavior and go on
a lot with the "why? WHY?" as though there should never be any variability
whatsoever in this living organism's behavior. Training regressions are a
frequent occurrence and no big deal. It is so important to remember that
behavior is always in flux, constantly subjected to whatever contingencies
there are in the environment as well as being influenced by unknown internal
events. In the case of behavior problems, there are three main reasons for
behavior that had seemed to be "fixed" to break down again:
1. Undertraining: the behavior was never that strong in the first place
2. Contingency change: the behavior extinguished or another one was trained
by the owner or environment
3. Failure to generalize: the behavior falls apart in a new location or context
(Karen Pryor's "New Tank Syndrome")
These three reasons are really variations on the same theme, undertraining. It
is extremely difficult in a real-life setting to reinforce enough trials to get the
response strength most people expect (i.e., perfection for life). It is also hard
to keep on top of changing circumstances to maintain training and get
responses generalized across new contexts."


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

*Gentle Leader*

I hate to admit it, but I think the "undertraining" might be the problem. When I got her excited and away from her brother, she started working a little bit better.

I don't know if I should start new post or if I can just change the topic on this one, but I was wondering if anyone on this forum has used a Gentle Leader? If so, how'd it work. If not, why?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Diann said:


> I hate to admit it, but I think the "undertraining" might be the problem. When I got her excited and away from her brother, she started working a little bit better.
> 
> I don't know if I should start new post or if I can just change the topic on this one, but I was wondering if anyone on this forum has used a Gentle Leader? If so, how'd it work. If not, why?


What are you trying to accomplish Diann ? These are not really for small dogs.


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

I am having an awful time with Lucy dragging me on our walks. I cannot seem to get her to walk on a loose leash and the more I try, the more she's rehersing the pulling. I was wondering if it could be used for training her. Allowing me to praise and treat her while shes in a good position rather than pulling me down the street.


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## LunasMom (Sep 11, 2011)

I think that Luna is going through the same "teenage" nonsense. She turned 7 months about two weeks ago. I almost cried after last Mondays class. She completely has lost the concept of "stay". This may be in part due to Sola's arrival, but as I think about it, the downslide began BEFORE we got Sola. In addition, due to soft stools ("pudding consistency" DH informed me is the technical term) our vet has taken her off ALL treats except her regular food. I believe I am going to skip the last two classes: practice for graduation test and graduation test itself--which she would be unable to pass. I will continue to work with her at home. Should I enroll her in another class later?? How much later? Advice please! When does adolescence end?


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

Oh Carol, I'm feeling your pain.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Diann said:


> I am having an awful time with Lucy dragging me on our walks. I cannot seem to get her to walk on a loose leash and the more I try, the more she's rehersing the pulling. I was wondering if it could be used for training her. Allowing me to praise and treat her while shes in a good position rather than pulling me down the street.


yeah Di, isn't your trainer helping with this. Anyway Emily has the best videos on the web, check out a few on walking. http://www.dogmantics.com/Dogmantics/Free_Video_List.html 
I would recommend the Easy Walk Harness , it helps but is no cure. I use it strictly for the safety of it. Any dog whether well trained at walking or not, can pull if the circumstances warrant it , eg. being frightened.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree with Dave, a no-pull harness (there are several brands, but the main idea is that the attachment point for the leash is on the front of the chest, not on the back) is the best alternative both for saving wear and tear on the dog's neck, and also to help tech them to walk correctly on a loose lead. Gentle Leaders aren't a great choice for little dogs OR for dogs with a lot of facial hair. 

The biggest thing to remember is that it can take a LONG time and a LOT of patience and reinforcement to teach a dog to walk reliably on a loose lead. And you will get it first in a controlled, rather boring place like your driveway, LONG before they are doing it reliably on the street. 

I think a lot of people just give up way too soon on teaching their dog to walk on a loose lead. People with big dogs resort to pinch collars, etc, while people with little dogs just put them in a harness and let them leap and pull as much as they want. There is no getting around just putting the time and effort in if you really want a dog to walk nicely on the leash. But it is SO much more pleasant for both the person AND the dog when they finally get it!:whoo:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

good explanation Karen. :whoo:


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