# Grumpy roommate



## JJraksab (Mar 15, 2012)

Hello! I'm looking for some advice to train my new havanese, who is super sweet to everyone except my grumpy roommate... which of course makes him grumpier. Here's the story:

I got my first havanese a few weeks ago, she's almost 9 months but didn't get much human socialization in the early, crucial months. She has been surprisingly well behaved for me so far, and has been very sweet and making a lot of progress socializing with people. I'm trying hard to avoid small-dog-syndrome and keep her well behaved, and so far everything has been pretty good -- she no longer barks at people in public or on the street, and when people come to my house she gets used to them after a few moments of ignoring her and letting them slowly start treating her. I have a roommate that's gone for weeks at a time for work, and when he is here he stays in his room most of the time. He was happy when I talked to him about getting a dog, and said he loves dogs and would have one himself if not for his traveling. So I went ahead and got the dog, and she's already the love of my life. But my roommate recently got back from traveling, and it turns out he's not a dog person... at all. We went through the usual procedure of trying to get her comfortable with him, which worked momentarily, but she seems to forget it every time he comes home again or comes out of his room. He is fed up, and no longer tries to be nice to her (or me)... just muttering under his breath about how she's an evil gremlin, or lunging at her to try to scare her away. It's heartbreaking. She's going to get spayed soon, and after that we'll be able to start obedience classes (hopefully)... but right now every day is a struggle.

I've read a lot about what the roommate should do to get the puppy used to him, but what do I do if he's unwilling?? He's not a threat to her or me... he's just a grouch.


----------



## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

get a new roommate.

Lunging at a dog to scare it isn't acceptable. Just mean.


----------



## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

He could be a threat to you both if he makes her afraid of men in general. You need to get rid of this grumpy loser! He shouldn't have told you he liked dogs when he really didn't, either. What is your puppy's name, BTW? We need pictures, too!


----------



## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

What is your puppy doing that upsets your roommate? Is it just barking?


----------



## ClaireVoyant (Jan 26, 2012)

I know it's not the answer you were looking for here . . .but honestly, if he's unwilling to remedy the situation, as you say . . .then either he or the dog must go. There's no magic pill to fix it. It would be an easy choice for me.


----------



## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> get a new roommate.
> 
> Lunging at a dog to scare it isn't acceptable. Just mean.


Totally Agree! He's an ape!:brick:


----------



## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

I too agree - it's NOT in ANY way acceptable to scare a puppy. Could result in lifelong trauma. Sorry you find yourself in this fix, but I do think you need to get rid of the roommate, for your puppy's sake. Just as quickly as possible.

Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:31:26 (PDT)


----------



## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

I agree ..Dump the roomate.. but first...scream at him, lunge at him and then and call him an evil gremlin!


----------



## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

whimsy said:


> I agree ..Dump the roomate.. but first...scream at him, lunge at him and then and call him an evil gremlin!


:thumb:


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

He is a insecure guy being mean to a dog. I bet if the dog was nice to him he would probably like him. Maybe see if he could feed him or take him on some walks. We moved in January and my two still bark at my sisters husband I cant figure out why. He just smiles and says something tries to play.But everyday about three or four times he comes down the stairs and they bark.
At my old house their was a neighbor who lunged at Maddie and acted like he was going to kick her. I called him a mean old man and how dare you do that to my dog. She had gotten away from me and ran up to him all 8 lbs of her and we had a leash law there so he said he was going to report me.


----------



## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

We pet sit my sister's Toy Fox Terrier on occasion and that dog, despite living with my sister and her husband, barks and freaks out every...single...time my DH or son walks into a room or down the hallway here.

I can say with experience that this type of behavior is nerve wracking - for everyone - especially the target of the freak-out. If your Hav puppy is acting this way toward your roommate, then you need to take charge and, with gentle but firm steps, teach her that this type of behavior is not acceptable. You might keep her on leash when he's home, no matter where he is in the place, and that way you have more control of her and her behavior when he appears. Or you encourage him to spend more time playing, interacting (NICELY) with her and feeding her treats when he's there. You need to do something to take the stress off of both of them. 

Yes, he's responding inappropriately, but he's also under attack every time he comes out of his room - in his own home. Some people are calmer than others when under duress but it seems like your roommate is almost as high strung as your dog. That's a no win situation for her if you can't resolve it peacefully.

If you can't get him to help out by taking part or at least cooperating to allow your training to take hold over time, then you definitely need to look at getting another roommate, moving out yourself, or rehoming her.

I wish you the best of luck!


----------



## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

Great post, Wanda.

I think it's very common for dogs to react poorly to men, maybe boys as well.

And the small terriers are typically very reactive, genetically.

Leaning to use canine calming signals is a very large assistance with highly-aroused and reactive dogs. Feeding treats can be added to that, as classical conditioning.

I recommend the work of Turid Rugaas, starting with her book and DVD on calming signals, shown here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/stressdown.php

It can be EXTREMELY difficult to get men to listen to us when we ask them to use canine calming signals. I really don't know why; maybe they feel silly, or like sissies, if they think they are being asked to accommodate a dog. But using the signals does more than anything else (along with treats, used judiciously), to help a dog cope.

Here's a basic primer on using canine calming signals:

http://www.coherentdog.org/arc2006/calmsig.htm

And here's an article on putting the signals into practice.

http://www.coherentdog.org/arc2006/dogconnect.htm

Underlying ANY success in communicating with dogs has to be the human's WILLINGNESS to see the dog as the dog it is, having a dog, not a human, nature, and also, willingness to allow making acquaintance on the DOG'S terms. Dogs just don't have the capacity to work with human terms until they are given lots of training and reassurance along the way.

And the training has to be gentle and non-threatening, if it is to work wtihout dumping some trauma on the dog.

Not easy tasks - but - success when we use the signals brings on a joy that is just wonderful. Both in human and in dog.

Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:38:47 (PDT)


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi Carol,

I've noticed a couple of times, either in posts or on your site, that you mention not doing dog sports. I'm wondering what your rationale for this is. It has been my experience that people involved in dog sports, at least the ones I know who use positive training methods, are MUCH more tuned-in to their dogs' level of stress than the majority of "pet people" who come to our training center... and you have to give the pet people who come for training credit... at least they are trying!

Yes, especially in AKC obedience, you still do come across some "old school, yank and jerk" people. But the majority of people, at least in this part of the country, don't train that way any more. And it simply doesn't work AT ALL for agility... if the dog doesn't WANT to work with you, there is just no way you can get them around a course at speed and at distance. Any aversive techniques either slow the dog down... or they just leave the course and refuse to play at all.

When I take Kodi out for a walk (which he does a lot more than competing, when you are talking about hours out of the year) he seems much calmer and happier than the dogs with less training who are leaping and choking themselves as the bark and carry on while they drag their owner down the street. I know there are dogs with less formal training that DON'T do this, but there are all too many that do.

Also, you mentioned not playing fetch or tug with your dog... When I don't give in to these games, I end up with piles of toys around my feet... so it's clearly not my idea. I don't have to "tease" him into these games. We DON'T do tug much, because I worry about the neck and spine on a small dog. But that's not for lack of trying on his part. At times I have to NOT take the toy over and over, until he drops it in my hand, because what he really WANTS is that game of tug.


----------



## JJraksab (Mar 15, 2012)

Thank you everyone! Her name is Myka 

And the roommate... yeah, I think he would like her if she were nice to him. I think he does like dogs, and he believes he is a dog person, but he hasn't ever been in the position where he needed to cooperate with the learning! He _tries_ to listen to me when I suggest good behaviors, but he tries halfheartedly and gives up so quickly. I try to tell him that she can see through it, but he rolls his eyes and says "it's a dog". Humph. I think the lunging is not _intended_ to be cruel, it's his way of showing that he won't be scared away by her barking.

So yeah.. like Carol said... the problem seems to be getting the human man to listen. He sorta tries, but does it all wrong, then he blames the dog (and me) when it doesn't work. I do sympathize, it sucks to come home after a long day, or get up in the morning and instantly get barked at, so I feel pretty terrible. He's moving out in 2 months, but until then he won't work with me, but I'm really worried about Myka. I want (need!) to teach her to respect him even if he's being a bad human, because she's turning into a high-strung, nervous, guard-dog.


----------



## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

krandall said:


> Hi Carol,
> 
> I've noticed a couple of times, either in posts or on your site, that you mention not doing dog sports. I'm wondering what your rationale for this is. It has been my experience that people involved in dog sports, at least the ones I know who use positive training methods, are MUCH more tuned-in to their dogs' level of stress than the majority of "pet people" who come to our training center... and you have to give the pet people who come for training credit... at least they are trying!
> 
> ...


Hey, Karen!

True; i don't play fetch nor tug with my dogs. I might play a bit of fetch, but where i live, shouldn't need to, as roaming the roadsides and pathways seems enough for my dogs to enjoy life most thoroughly.

At home, though, I'm just as likely to teach a few tricks - whatever seems to come naturally to my dogs.

My last three dogs - the two Australian Terriers, Kwali and Kumbi, and now Camellia, all were or are highly reative - over-reactive.

I got Kwali and Kumbi over that, but then the knee surgery, followed by Kumbi's diabetes, intervened.

I prefer not to play fetch with highly-reactive or very-easily-aroused dogs. A few tosses and retrieves would certainly be okay, but much more ,and the stress hormones begin to build up - then you have what can become excessive arousal, which can take some days to return to base level (that is, the stress hormones, as they get set off in the body).

But lots of dogs really thrive on various sorts of games, and training, too.

I'm not sure right now what I'll do with Camellia. I'm starting to teach her tricks (along with the recall). She's enjoying it so far. For now, I'm capturing stuff she likes to do.

Oh, about tug - I don't like doing that with small dogs whose jaws or teeth aren't quite perfect. Actually, Camellia has excellent jaw and teeth, which is GREAT! Still, I prefer to avoid tug, and you're right, the neck and spine can be involved. If the DOG throws stuff around, great!

I LOVE your story of the piles of toys Kodi brings for you! Gail, who sold Camellia to me, told me Camellia doesn't much play with toys - she's right. I've made some half-hearted attempts to get her interested. I think I'm going to try to get her a large-sized ball to play with; she MIGHT get interested in playing with that.

I really feel my age, and don't want to be bending down all the time to get a small ball out from under the sofa or daybed, where Camellia can't reach, but a big ball would be great! (Oh, and I'm Quite Paranoid about small balls; to easy to come close to swallowing one.)

I might try a flirt pole, though! We'll see. Camellia seems unafraid of sticks held by humans - wonderful!

Organized dog sports are out of my travel-reach. We are very loaded up in my area with trainers who remain in the Dark Ages. We have a FEW more positive ones, but they are in the Big City, 60 to 80 miles from me.

I'm not ruling it out forever. We used to have an active dog club in my town (a half-hour or more drive for me). It dissolved; somebody resurrected it for a brief period, but then it died again. It's conceivable that one day another would start up.

But Camellia has a lot of reactivity to overcome before I could take her among groups of dogs. She's come a very long way from the hypervigilance she had when she became my dog, but I need to do set-ups and play dates, to get her better around other dogs - and not having any luck arranging these yet! I need the OWNERS (or handlers) to be reasonably savvy for this to work, which probably means, I also need to coach the humans first!.

Camellia HAS come far enough along so I have some hopes she can improve around other dogs. Meantime, we do have lovely places to walk, sniff and explore - a very main joy for most dogs.

And you're right on about the bond that develops in training. Oddly, special bonds also develop between dogs who are diabetic, and their caretakers - who inject them with insulin twice a day and often run blood tests on them (for glucose levels), pricking to get blood samples. I won't wish that on Camellia for the sake of our bond!

The weekly baths and sprays will have to substitute for that. Now that I figured out I had the shower-wand water-force too strong, and I've turned it down low, Camellia is much happier than she was in the bath, so I look forward to more bonding there, oddly enough!

Hope Kodi is more comfortable now?
Thu, 15 Mar 2012 17:34:49 (PDT)


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

CarolWCamelo said:


> I'm not ruling it out forever. We used to have an active dog club in my town (a half-hour or more drive for me). It dissolved; somebody resurrected it for a brief period, but then it died again. It's conceivable that one day another would start up.
> 
> But Camellia has a lot of reactivity to overcome before I could take her among groups of dogs. She's come a very long way from the hypervigilance she had when she became my dog, but I need to do set-ups and play dates, to get her better around other dogs - and not having any luck arranging these yet! I need the OWNERS (or handlers) to be reasonably savvy for this to work, which probably means, I also need to coach the humans first!.


I think YOU should resurrect it! You'd be a great teacher!



CarolWCamelo said:


> Oddly, special bonds also develop between dogs who are diabetic, and their caretakers - who inject them with insulin twice a day and often run blood tests on them (for glucose levels), pricking to get blood samples. I won't wish that on Camellia for the sake of our bond!


Actually, I know this from my Dad's old, diabetic cat! It was pretty funny. He's call her in this little sing-song voice to come get her shot, and she'd get up rom wherever she was sleeping and come trotting right over to get a needle stuck in her! He kept her going until she was almost 20.



CarolWCamelo said:


> The weekly baths and sprays will have to substitute for that. Now that I figured out I had the shower-wand water-force too strong, and I've turned it down low, Camellia is much happier than she was in the bath, so I look forward to more bonding there, oddly enough!


Ummm. I'm thinking that wouldn't work for Kodi. OTOH, he DOES like his time all cuddled up in a pile of towels and blankets between the wash and dry cycles.



CarolWCamelo said:


> Hope Kodi is more comfortable now?


Yes, thank you,he finally definitely IS more comfortable. Now comes the hard part, though. He's getting really demanding about playing, and can't understand AT ALL why I won't engage. I'm getting buried in toys.:biggrin1: I've also had to lock him in the office with me twice today, because he started doing zoomies. I'm afraid he might put on some weight, because I keep having to give him edible chewies, like the Himalayan Chews, or the Bison Flossie Missy told me about to keep him occupied and not driving both of us nuts. But I figure a little weight will come right back off again, (I usually keep him very trim) so if it keeps him quiet, it's probably a good thing.


----------



## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

JJraksab said:


> He sorta tries, but does it all wrong, then he blames the dog (and me) when it doesn't work. I do sympathize, it sucks to come home after a long day, or get up in the morning and instantly get barked at, so I feel pretty terrible. He's moving out in 2 months, but until then he won't work with me, but I'm really worried about Myka. I want (need!) to teach her to respect him even if he's being a bad human, because she's turning into a high-strung, nervous, guard-dog.


Does Myka do any cute tricks or commands? Maybe if you had a couple bowls of treats set out in easy-to-grab spots, he could distract Myka into doing a command.

Treats at the door for when he comes home. If she sits pretty, he gives her a treat. Treats by his room door: when he walks into the living room, she gets a treat. Probably she will fall in love with the treat man.

or at least it will be quieter and less stressful.


----------



## JJraksab (Mar 15, 2012)

morriscsps said:


> Does Myka do any cute tricks or commands? Maybe if you had a couple bowls of treats set out in easy-to-grab spots, he could distract Myka into doing a command.


Thanks for the tip. For me, Myka is pretty consistent with sit, stay, come, stand... and is learning to lay down. She gets distracted very easily, though. The roommate has tried treating her, and has gotten her to sit occasionally, but she's usually too excited when he's around. After the initial barking mania when he enters the room, we do give her a lot of treats (both of us)... and that does seem to help, because she'll settle down a bit. If he's preparing food in the kitchen, she'll even sit and watch him, or go over and jump up on his leg or the counter to see if he's preparing her food. Then if he sits down and starts eating without treating her, or moves too fast, she'll bark. It definitely seems like she's afraid of him at first, but then she just acts a bit bratty by barking at him when he's just sitting there, keeping to himself, eating his food.

That made me wonder if we treated her too much, and now she expects a treat just because he's present? Is this a mixture of fear-barking and attention-seeking-barking?? She never barks or begs at me for attention, so I thought this was still fear-related... but maybe I'm wrong?? :suspicious:


----------



## 1plus2havs (Jan 29, 2010)

I total agree with everyone lunging at your dog is not good at all. My male dog liam is scared of men. A male coworker lunged at him playfully when I brought him to a picnic party, he did not mean to scare liam at all but after that the whole time we were at the park every time my coworker will come near us he will start growling at him like he is saying "I dont like you just stay away". After that incident he is always wary if there is a man around us. If your roommate continues to do that, it will not help any socialization that you are trying to achieve with your dog.


----------



## Kalico (Jan 11, 2012)

I agree this could have lasting effects on Myka, so you are right to keep trying even though he's gone in two months. Maybe having other people over so she can maybe understand it's only your roommate she need not like? Hopefully you can get some expert advice...good luck!


----------

