# Still Most Horrible Coat Ever



## momtothree (May 19, 2013)

ZuZu will be 2 in March, and she still matts terribly. I have tried several shampoos and conditioners but still have the matts and tangles every time I brush and comb her.
I have decided to have her cut short and keep her that way as I think that will be a big help with grooming her.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I think that's a good idea. I don't know how people manage the full coat. My guys have always been in puppycuts except for Scudder while he was showing. He got a puppycut at 10 months old and it was much easier


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## BFrancs (May 17, 2012)

Oh, I feel your pain. Canela will be 2 in March too. She has been matting real bad for the past 2 months :frusty: I keep her in a medium coat but I would love for it to be longer. Right now, I brush her about 2-3 times a day to help control the mats. I bathe her once a week but I'm consider doing it every 5 days. I haven't found any one specific shampoo or conditioner that I love but there is one thing I do love and we do it every time she takes a bath. The 'spa treatment' http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=28554 you should try it - it might help....at least for a couple days.


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## tra_po (Aug 14, 2013)

I would go short, too! Puppy cuts are so cute, too. I like them even when it's not because of matting.


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## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

I feel your pain also. Sophie is three and I keep her really short and she still matts daily. I had a bichon that didn't matt nearly as bad.The butt area is the worst!


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## momtothree (May 19, 2013)

I was hoping she would get over the terrible matting as she got older but I now realize it isn't going to happen. She has a coat much like a bichon or poodle, curly and hard to brush and comb.
I will make an appointment with the groomers next week and just cut her down.
Thanks again for all the helpful replies.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Take before and after pictures! That kind of coat looks cute short. About two inches. If she is to matted when you go in they will save her. So try to go in mat free and save some length. This was Zoeys first hair cut and I did it with scissors. I went shorter on her second cut.


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

momtothree said:


> I was hoping she would get over the terrible matting as she got older but I now realize it isn't going to happen. She has a coat much like a bichon or poodle, curly and hard to brush and comb.
> I will make an appointment with the groomers next week and just cut her down.
> Thanks again for all the helpful replies.


That's probably the best thing to do. My first Hav, Bailey, had a curly type coat which was a devil to groom, so after five years of putting up with it, I had him cut down into a puppy cut and kept him that way. It was much easier and neater looking.


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

OK, guys, I'm going to risk heresy here….and it's purely anecdotal, not based upon anything other than my own observations so please don't think I am doing other than reporting - NO desire or expectation of anyone following my idiosyncratic lead. But…
I don't bath Cuba often; whenever I do the matts form far, far faster than whenever I don't. My theory is that natural oils in the hair are actually protecting her from matt-formation. I brush and comb her every day, but I do not bath her more than once a month and have found her coat easier (so far) to manage when it is LESS clean. That may all change when the blowing turns into a hurricane, but for now it's working for me. Please don't shoot me for the heresy!!


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## BFrancs (May 17, 2012)

No judgement  what kind of coat does Cuba have?


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## BFrancs (May 17, 2012)

oops forgot to add - Canela hair is very thin, kind of flat but silky and a little wavy. 

Vino coat is SO different compared to Canela’s hair. He has yet to mat and he’s going on 9 months, so am hoping he is one of the rare few who don’t go thru the blowing coat phase. 

Vino coat is very soft but THICK and a little wavy.


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

BFrancs said:


> No judgement  what kind of coat does Cuba have?


Very silky, and wavy rather than curly; not sure how thick relative to others - not as dense as my Coton's coat, but the texture is so completely different anyway. It seems pretty thick to me, for a silky coat. The matting is worst around the backs of her ears but I think mainly provoked by the rough-and-tumbling with Tycho, they tend to haul each other around a lot and usually by the scruff, and around the ears. I've got some really good de-matting spray, and the hydrating butter by Warrens that others recommended on this forum - I use that as more of a preventative, making sure I use a dollop at the end of grooming in places like armpits (leg pits?!) and inside legs, behind ears, around tail&#8230;.I think this helps the matts not to form in the first place, but it's hard to tell, of course. Maybe there wouldn't be any anyway&#8230;.yet!!!?


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Leo's coat is also very soft, thick and wavy and I find that the cleaner the coat the less mats/knots we get. He is going through coat blowing now and if I bath and heavily condition every 4 days the mats are much more manageable. I think the coat type, because it seems to vary considerably, will determine the frequency of bathes, the products that work best and the length of coat that looks best for each Hav. That, personal preference and how much time, effort, $, etc. each owner wants to put into coat maintenance.


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## BFrancs (May 17, 2012)

Lalla said:


> I've got some really good de-matting spray, and the hydrating butter by Warrens that others recommended on this forum - I use that as more of a preventative, making sure I use a dollop at the end of grooming in places like armpits (leg pits?!) and inside legs, behind ears, around tail&#8230;.I think this helps the matts not to form in the first place, but it's hard to tell, of course.


Warren L's is one of the few products I like and use often; what other dematting spray do you use?



Pucks104 said:


> Leo's coat is also very soft, thick and wavy


After seeing some of the pictures you posted on the forum, Leo and Vino probably have the same coat texture. *Very* soft and thick. Love it.


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

Pucks104 said:


> Leo's coat is also very soft, thick and wavy and I find that the cleaner the coat the less mats/knots we get. He is going through coat blowing now and if I bath and heavily condition every 4 days the mats are much more manageable. I think the coat type, because it seems to vary considerably, will determine the frequency of bathes, the products that work best and the length of coat that looks best for each Hav. That, personal preference and how much time, effort, $, etc. each owner wants to put into coat maintenance.


All v sensible, Pucks104; just wanted to add that it's not a time thing, not bathing her often; I'd be happy to, I don't mind the effort, in fact I see it as a part of the whole bonding process, and in many ways, it would be easier because she would become so used to baths. It's just that I personally find the grooming harder when she is squeaky clean. The conditioner gives an immediate impression of making it easier to get the matts out (for me), but the matts re-form quicker. As you say, every situation seems to be different and I guess flexibility is the name of the game; I was just throwing in my non-bathing heretical take just in case anyone else found it useful.

Oh, yes, and someone has just reminded me of this wonderful quote (alleged, of course!) from Queen Elizabeth 1: "I have a bath once a year, whether or not I need it"


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

BFrancs said:


> Warren L's is one of the few products I like and use often; what other dematting spray do you use?


It's called Groom Professional De-Matting Spray with Conditioner; they do another called Conditioner/De-Tangler Spray, too, but I prefer this one.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Lalla said:


> It's just that I personally find the grooming harder when she is squeaky clean.
> 
> That's where the individual dog's coat makes such a difference. November got really crazy for me and Leo's bath schedule got thrown off. Only 2 bathes the whole month rather than twice per week. The further from his bath we got the harder it was to get the comb through his coat. For Leo, with so much hair, keeping him really clean will be essential to keeping his coat longer. I just think that there is a lot of variation in the coats of Havanese. Curlier, silkier, straighter, wavier, thicker, thinner and each owner or their groomer will need to find a coat maintenance routine that works best for their dog's coat type.
> 
> For instance, many folks use a soft slicker brush and a pin brush for grooming. I find that that slicker brush is really difficult to use on Leo's coat. Through trial and error, I have found that the CC #005 Buttercomb and the CC Cat Carding comb are my preferred grooming tools in addition to the CC wooden pin brush that I use while drying him. For Leo's coat, line combing with the combs works much better than doing this with a slicker brush whereas the slicker brush seems to work really well for many.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lalla said:


> OK, guys, I'm going to risk heresy here&#8230;.and it's purely anecdotal, not based upon anything other than my own observations so please don't think I am doing other than reporting - NO desire or expectation of anyone following my idiosyncratic lead. But&#8230;
> I don't bath Cuba often; whenever I do the matts form far, far faster than whenever I don't. My theory is that natural oils in the hair are actually protecting her from matt-formation. I brush and comb her every day, but I do not bath her more than once a month and have found her coat easier (so far) to manage when it is LESS clean. That may all change when the blowing turns into a hurricane, but for now it's working for me. Please don't shoot me for the heresy!!


Havanese coats don't have a lot of natural, protective oils, like outdoor "working" breeds. (like Labs and other water dogs or the various shepherd breeds) I think you're probably doing fine with less frequent bathing because she hasn't hit blowing coat yet. And I think it's likely that if she DOES mat more after bathing, you haven't yet found the right type of conditioner to use after bathing.

If this is NOT the case, then she has a very different coat type than most American bred Havanese. (which, of course, is also completely possible!!! )


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

I think Emmie's hair is silky and she mats an average amount when not blowing coat; it's not too bad. However, it's a little worse right now because she's wearing coats and sweaters most days due to the weather.

Here's a picture of her after getting groomed yesterday.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

MarinaGirl said:


> I think Emmie's hair is silky and she mats an average amount when not blowing coat; it's not too bad. However, it's a little worse right now because she's wearing coats and sweaters most days due to the weather.
> 
> Here's a picture of her after getting groomed yesterday.


She's so pretty!

Yes, anything ON their coat definitely makes them mat worse. Kodi really mats very little as a general rule&#8230; He can go for a week without grooming while I'm away and have no mats when I get back. BUT&#8230; If he goes for a vigorous walk/run in the woods with the Curli harness on, or especially if he goes on a long woods walk in slushy snow, so he gets wet with a coat on, there will always be some mats to deal with. Nothing that I can't work out in a grooming session, but definitely more than when he's not wearing "clothes".


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

krandall said:


> Havanese coats don't have a lot of natural, protective oils, like outdoor "working" breeds. (like Labs and other water dogs or the various shepherd breeds) I think you're probably doing fine with less frequent bathing because she hasn't hit blowing coat yet. And I think it's likely that if she DOES mat more after bathing, you haven't yet found the right type of conditioner to use after bathing.
> 
> If this is NOT the case, then she has a very different coat type than most American bred Havanese. (which, of course, is also completely possible!!! )


I think you are probably right, Karen, that she hasn't yet hit the proper coat-blowing horrors. I remember them with both my Cotons and they were utter hell. She certainly seems to have a more 'oily' coat than either of the Cotons, but the Coton coat is particularly dry-textured and peculiar. Hers is nothing like that. I live in dread of the beginning of the Blow! And shall probably immediately revert to all the good advice, start bathing her like crazy and give up on Elizabeth 1 as a role model!!


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