# Anyone know this woman?



## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Jamie Tudor Walker? She posts in the facebook group for "I Love My Havanese", she has expressed that she is a "reputable breeder" but when I googled her name I found this: http://pets.oodle.com/all/dallas-area/pet_breed_havanese/

She is selling her puppies on Oodle!! And AKC Havanese for $1000 - $1400 (chocolates).

Just googled some more and apparently she is/was called Hidden Bay Havanese.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

That's funny Natalie I was just looking at this woman today as well, the pictures on oodle looked very familiar as well hmmmm.

Oh and on another site she sells Hav/Bishon mixes, enough said.


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## dbeech (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't think a reputable breeder would be selling their pups on Oodle.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

^ Yeah that's exactly what I said on the facebook page!


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

This is her reply to me questioning her selling puppies on Oodle and what her genetic testing consists of:

"Natalie I don't discuss my puppies on open forum as I am not here to advertise, my pups go locally here thank you for inquiry and interest in my breeding program and it's details I would be happy to answer your questions in email format."

Riiiiiiiiiight. BYB.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Hmmmmmm, I just saw that kennel name mentioned in another thread.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

^ As did I!


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Here is another interesting site, notice the phone # is the same...

http://www.havanesebichon.com/


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I guess it's now obvious what another poster was up to. She must be a very unhappy woman to engage in behavior like she did.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

You guys are good. I can't figure out the connection you made? You think it is the same lady?! How did you connect the dots?


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## dbeech (Jun 16, 2009)

Great detective work...too bad members wasted time reading and answering this woman's posts!!!!


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

wow. you guys are good! if i ever need a detective, i know who to call.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Posh's Mom said:


> wow. you guys are good! if i ever need a detective, i know who to call.


:whoo:


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Also: http://secure.adpay.com/ClicknBuy.aspx?p=1013&adid=0000213379-01

Talk about up the creek without a paddle!

As for the detective comment, it's funny, this is why I am going to make a great attorney


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

dbeech said:


> Great detective work...too bad members wasted time reading and answering this woman's posts!!!!


The pieces just started to fal into place today, it is too bad so much time was wasted but hopefully others have learned something.

This is what did it for me:

http://dogs.oodle.com/view/akc-havanese-pups-male-and-female/1717535478-houston-tx/


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

Leeann said:


> Here is another interesting site, notice the phone # is the same...
> 
> http://www.havanesebichon.com/


I was looking into this more as well and here is a very similar pic that I found.

Here is "Leah's puppy" that she has posted here on the forum (if that's even her name)









Here is a pic on one of these other sites. http://www.havanesebichon.com/









notice the same bedding?

What is up with the woman? Makes you wonder about people some times.:suspicious:


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

Leeann said:


> The pieces just started to fal into place today, it is too bad so much time was wasted but hopefully others have learned something.
> 
> This is what did it for me:
> 
> http://dogs.oodle.com/view/akc-havanese-pups-male-and-female/1717535478-houston-tx/


Even better Leeann


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

You'd be surprised what you can find in an online search. I found properties my ex owned in 4 states that he didn't list in his financial statement. I love the internet.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Ohhhhh you guys are GOOOOOD! 

I have a question off on a different tangent now. On the website showing the pictures of "her" puppies, one of them that is not listed as a chocolate, has no black pigment around the outside of her eyes. Isn't this a DQ as far as AKC registration? Am I mixed up or confused?

Beverly


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Agreed about the bedding. I can't find anything under the name "Leah" that is associated with Jamie or with Hidden Bay Havanese - so either the poster is her under an alias, or they are breeding together since Leah said that she has a bichon.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Here is the link to my facebook thread with her: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/group.php?v=feed&story_fbid=317842916208&gid=2245941208

She doesn't seem to have anything to say to my last post, gee I wonder why.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I just poked a hornet's nest on FB at I Love My Havanese.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2245941208&ref=nf

Here's the post:

Katya Didenko I just received an email from Havanese Rescue team and my heart is breaking. If you care enough about our favorite Havanese breed, please read:
"One-year-old Henry has a congenital heart defect but there is hope for our Henry. We can all help to mend his broken heart... 
The
surgery he needs has a 95% success rate but th...
See More
February 6 at 1:21am · Comment · Like · Report

Ann Brady Adams Jamie-Do you breed Havs and Bichons? Do you know Leah from Havanese Forum?
2 minutes ago ·

Jamie Walker Tudor I only breed Havanese, I have been doing it for 10 years, I was www.hiddenbayhavanese.com but I have since retired I only breed a litter maybe two a year. I do not know Leah. I do own several Havanese websites that may be linked to her
a few seconds ago · Report


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

How do you own websites that may be linked to someone if you do not know her? That makes no sense. What an idiot.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Ann - I like how she replied to your posts but is ignoring me.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Wow, I'm impressed! Amazing detective work!
I'm just sorry so many of us wasted our time and energy trying to be helpful!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm really confused now. Isn't it possible that Leah bought her puppies from this breeder?


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

galaxie said:


> How do you own websites that may be linked to someone if you do not know her? That makes no sense. What an idiot.


My thoughts exactly!


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

^^ Could be. But she presented herself as a newbie and acted like she knew nothing about Havs, but then in later threads she talks like she knows all about breeding, etc. So I find it a little suspicious.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

But she said she grew up in a house where her mother was a breeder for many years Maybe that's where her knowledge comes from.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Hmm, good question Geri.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

^ Possibly, I still think it's fishy!
Either way, Leah is either associated with Jamie or bought her pups from this breeder. One way or the other, Hidden Bay and Jamie Walker Tudor are on my blacklist.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

This is all so very interesting to me. It is very sad though that this person, whoever she really is, has bred a Havanese and Bichon's together. Why?


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

pjewel said:


> I'm really confused now. Isn't it possible that Leah bought her puppies from this breeder?


I checked her join date here, and I wondered the same thing. The photos of her dog posted on that site were from something like 4 months ago. ? But, her desire to be confusing and argumentative sure raise a lot of flags.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

pjewel said:


> But she said she grew up in a house where her mother was a breeder for many years Maybe that's where her knowledge comes from.


Geri, why would another breeder be using pictures that Leah shared on this forum as her own??


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

^ I think she means that if Jamie and Leah are actually two different people, that maybe if Jamie was the breeder she took the pics, and gave them to Leah who bought two puppies from her. Totally possible but I like my conspiracy theory.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

galaxie said:


> ^ I think she means that if Jamie and Leah are actually two different people, that maybe if Jamie was the breeder she took the pics, and gave them to Leah who bought two puppies from her. Totally possible but I like my conspiracy theory.


And the fact that Leah bought a Bichon as well and this Jamie lady mixes the two breeds already... smells funny to me.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

...I've wondered why Leah is getting several puppies all at the same time, too...


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

When you all got your new puppy did you share picture of your puppy with everything that your breeder took or did you take new pictures of your puppy?


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

Sheri said:


> ...I've wondered why Leah is getting several puppies all at the same time, too...


Hmmmm...maybe cuz she is the breeder???? :suspicious:


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

^ I think I posed a couple of "baby pictures" of Roscoe and also a bunch of my own...


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## CacheHavs (Aug 2, 2007)

Kathy said:


> When you all got your new puppy did you share picture of your puppy with everything that your breeder took or did you take new pictures of your puppy?


I know I am always taking new pics. even if I get a puppy from another breeder


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

CacheHavs said:


> Hmmmm...maybe cuz she is the breeder???? :suspicious:


DING DING DING!!

Or maybe she is the co-breeder and the two are her proceeds from the litter.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

CacheHavs said:


> Hmmmm...maybe cuz she is the breeder???? :suspicious:


...or at least, is _going to be_ the breeder... yeah:suspicious:


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Oh. My. God. I am in awe of your detective work, ladies! I can be so naive at times, wanting to always give people the benefit of the doubt, but I have a lump in my throat seeing ads for Havs in places like "next day pets". Natalie, you are gutsy. I like that.  

Leeann, Ann, Debbie B. et al.... how do you 'connect the dots' like you do? My gosh. Like Amy said, I know who to call if ever I need some investigative work done! 

Kathy, sadly there are many Hav mixes out there, done intentionally to perhaps make them more appealing, I'm thinking.... ? I once confronted a Montreal area BYB in an email, that said (on a kijiji site) her dogs were "purebred, rare Havs" because the dam was a Bichon and the sire a Poodle. I said 'HUH??? How do you figure?' She was insistent. :frusty: I gave her **** and never heard from her after that. Oh well ! Was she serious??! sigh.......


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

When I got each of my babies I shared the photos I got from Linda. I was so excited to show everyone my special angels that I couldn't wait to post pictures till I got them.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Marj, my coaches nicknamed me "little sh*t" as a kid. Obviously, they had their reasons


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

It sounded to me as if Leah was frustrated that she couldn't breed the havanese puppies she bought and that's what started the whole discussion about breeding, but I could be wrong.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Geri, I also came up with many reasons for the posts, questions and 'sh*t disturbing', wanting to believe in someone's innocence, not thinking that one could be so deceptive and with intent. I dunno....... this is all leaving a very bad taste in my mouth. I think I need a shower! *shudder*


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

pjewel said:


> When I got each of my babies I shared the photos I got from Linda. I was so excited to show everyone my special angels that I couldn't wait to post pictures till I got them.


Exactly Geri, but then when you had your new puppy in your arm's you no longer shared pictures from the breeder. Sharing pictures the breeder sends to you before you get your puppy is normal and understandable, but not after you have the puppy in your home.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I think they're in it together and she just wanted to stir up trouble.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Leeann said:


> That's funny Natalie I was just looking at this woman today as well, the pictures on oodle looked very familiar as well hmmmm.
> 
> Oh and on another site she sells Hav/Bishon mixes, enough said.


O.k.... sorry to go on about this, but Leeann, how did you figure this out and how did you, Natalie?? I wouldn't even know where to start! How did you, and others here, even remember the pictures shared and recognize them on a site selling them??


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

pjewel said:


> It sounded to me as if Leah was frustrated that she couldn't breed the havanese puppies she bought and that's what started the whole discussion about breeding, but I could be wrong.


Well, if one was hoping to breed, they would have made sure they could with the dog they purchased. What happened 20 years ago, is old news. Breeding should NEVER be about getting two dogs and breeding them just because.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Well, at the very least I think we can conclude that Leah bought her 3 puppies from Jamie with the intention of breeding any or all of them together. Especially if one hav was a male and the other hav and the bichon were female. Just think of the mill she could get going. Then, she may have discovered she cannot get top price for them when she does breed them because they have limited registration, and she is ticked off!
Just a theory.......


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Then she got what she deserved Carole. I just hope she treats the dogs well, or gives them away to someone who will.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Marj, I figured it out because I happened to stumble upon this thread on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?g...v=feed&story_fbid=317842916208&gid=2245941208

Being that every time I hear of a Havanese breeder I have never heard of before, I always google their name immediately to figure out if they're legit or not. So then once I got a couple of hits on her name I found her posting on Oodle of Hav pups for sale. So I took her phone number from that and then googled it. From her phone number I found the newspaper puppies for sale ad and Hidden Bay Havanese. I googled Hidden Bay Havanese and didn't get much but her old phone number, googled that and got some old puppy ads. Some of the links on google aren't active anymore, but they have cached files from the old sites.

Then I came on here and posted this post, and then searched Hidden Bay Havanese, and found that just today this thread had been posted: http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=11034&page=4

Put it all together and here we are!


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

Leeann said:


> That's funny Natalie I was just looking at this woman today as well, the pictures on oodle looked very familiar as well hmmmm.
> 
> Oh and on another site she sells Hav/Bishon mixes, enough said.


I know this woman and she is NOT selling Hav/Bichon mixes. She is only selling Havanese.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Then what's your connection with her Leah and why all the mystery? It seems you just came here to criticize Hav breeders who want to better the breed. Are you looking into breeding Havs to Bichons?


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

galaxie said:


> Jamie Tudor Walker? She posts in the facebook group for "I Love My Havanese", she has expressed that she is a "reputable breeder" but when I googled her name I found this: http://pets.oodle.com/all/dallas-area/pet_breed_havanese/
> 
> She is selling her puppies on Oodle!! And AKC Havanese for $1000 - $1400 (chocolates).
> 
> Just googled some more and apparently she is/was called Hidden Bay Havanese.


The puppy in the second picture is a litter sister of my girls. There's not a thing wrond with the puppy of Jamie Tudor. She is a very reputable breeder. I know how to tell a good breeder from a bad because I've been around good breeder for all 53 years of my life.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

^ That's bull. She sells them IN THE NEWSPAPER. They are not bred for conformation, they are bred for profit. That's what's wrong with Jamie.


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

pjewel said:


> It sounded to me as if Leah was frustrated that she couldn't breed the havanese puppies she bought and that's what started the whole discussion about breeding, but I could be wrong.


YOU COULD BE WRONG! I have explained myself until I'm blue in the face.

I don't know who you people think you are. Obviously you walk on water.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

^ Why do you care if you do not intend to show your dogs in conformation or breed them? Limited registration allows for all other types of show competitions.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

You haven't explained ANYTHING!!! You ask inflammatory questions and then you're not only critical of the answers but also the people who take the time to answer you. Why did you come here? Do you want someone to tell you it's ok to breed your puppies no matter what? You won't get that here because everyone here cares about the Havanese breed, whether we have show dogs or house pets.

Nobody said anyone walks on water. You appear to be an angry woman looking for confrontation, I'm done being sucked into your sick game.


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Leah said:


> YOU COULD BE WRONG! I have explained myself until I'm blue in the face.
> 
> I don't know who you people think you are. Obviously you walk on water.


Actually you have not explained yourself very well or there wouldn't be all these questions. *You don't have to explain yourself either*, but know that when you ask the kinds of questions you have asked and then are not willing to accept the responses, there will be more questions coming your way.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Leah, aren't you frustrated that your pups have a limited registration and you are afraid they won't be valuable? That's the impression I got. You are going to breed the bichon instead because it has full registration, right? Is that not what you were saying??


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

The sh*t winds are a blowin today! lol

That Jamie Tudor looks like some sort of puppy broker to me.. Look at the ads she has up all over the internet..lol
CREEPY!!

Ryan


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

Beamer said:


> The sh*t winds are a blowin today! lol
> 
> That Jamie Tudor looks like some sort of puppy broker to me.. Look at the ads she has up all over the internet..lol
> CREEPY!!
> ...


She is not a puppy broker. I've been to her house and seen her setup.

SHE IS NOT A PUPPY BROKER. THAT IS THE SLANDER I'M TALKING ABOUT. IT'S NOT TRUE.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Could someone answer my question about the pigment around the eye's of the puppies? Doesn't it need to be black on regular Hav's and dark brown on chocolates? Am I not understanding this correctly?

Beverly


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

I think you're right Bev.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Leah said:


> She is not a puppy broker. I've been to her house and seen her setup.
> 
> SHE IS NOT A PUPPY BROKER. THAT IS THE SLANDER I'M TALKING ABOUT. IT'S NOT TRUE.


Slander =/= personal observation

"Looks like" - personal observation
"I think" - personal observation
"So and so stole my money and beat me, slashed my tires and broke my windows" - slander (if it's not true)


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Just my opinion is all.. I like her advertising.. Superbowl Sunday! Bring home a puppy on Sunday and take it to the shelter on Monday! lol
I have never seen a reputable breeder advertise like mad all over the net and use a sporting event as a reason to buy a puppy.. lol

Ryan


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

BeverlyA said:


> Could someone answer my question about the pigment around the eye's of the puppies? Doesn't it need to be black on regular Hav's and dark brown on chocolates? Am I not understanding this correctly?
> 
> Beverly


Directly from the AKC website: http://www.akc.org/breeds/havanese/



> . The pigment on the eyerims is complete, solid black for all colors except for the chocolate dog which has complete solid, dark chocolate pigment. No other dilution of pigment is acceptable.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Thank you Natalie!

So by the looks of the pictures online from the mentioned website, a couple of those puppies would not be able to be registered, unless like nose pigment, eye pigment keeps filling in. 

This is the kind of stuff I'm still trying to learn!

Beverly


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

Why did you guy choose Jamie Tudor to pick on? 

Possibly because Mimismon gave me some song and dance about want to get a new puppy and wanted to know where I got mine when she really wanted to continue the assault on me.

I can take it, but leave Jamie out of it. She's not here to defend herself. Is that how you guys like to play?


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

BeverlyA said:


> Thank you Natalie!
> 
> So by the looks of the pictures online from the mentioned website, a couple of those puppies would not be able to be registered, unless like nose pigment, eye pigment keeps filling in.
> 
> ...


Beverly,
The puppies could be registered with AKC as long as both parents are AKC registered. They shouldn't be shown in AKC conformation shows though as their pigment isn't complete and the judge most likely wouldn't award them a ribbon. So, their registration in my opinion should be as a limited registration.

Is that more clear or did I confuse you more?


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Catching up------

Oh dear lord.......I'm speechless. :tape:


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm speechless also ~ and got to get back to the cute picture threads!!


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

She stated this in her very first thread

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=10818&page=2



Leah said:


> Last night I was thinking how delightful a Bichon/Havanese cross would be.


My question is why would anyone breed this cross as the Havanese breed already have the Bichon in them...


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

rdanielle said:


> She stated this in her very first thread
> 
> http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=10818&page=2
> 
> My question is why would anyone breed this cross as the Havanese breed already have the Bichon in them...


I just said the personalities and disposition would be great together. I NEVER said anything about cross-breeding them. Ask Sally about her Hav/Bichon mix.

The big problem with you people is putting things in my mouth.

You people are unbelieveable. Anything to pick a fight. No wonder breeder clubs have such a bad reputation that is if any of you belong to one which I doubt.


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE JUMPING ON JAMIE TUDOR?

SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER ME.


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

BeverlyA said:


> Could someone answer my question about the pigment around the eye's of the puppies? Doesn't it need to be black on regular Hav's and dark brown on chocolates? Am I not understanding this correctly?
> 
> Beverly


You might keep in mind that the picture you're looking at was taken when the puppy was six weeks old. I know this for a fact.


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

galaxie said:


> Also: http://secure.adpay.com/ClicknBuy.aspx?p=1013&adid=0000213379-01
> 
> Talk about up the creek without a paddle!
> 
> As for the detective comment, it's funny, this is why I am going to make a great attorney


Exactly where is someone supposed to advertise puppies for sale? Tell me PLEASE.

If found Jamie form an ad in The Dallas Morning News and I'm grateful I did.

You tell ME THE ACCEPTABLE PLACES TO ADVERTISE!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Nobody is "picking on" Jamie, you're somehow tied to her and her information is all over the net.

You'll notice that most reputable breeders don't have a need to advertise as word of mouth is enough for them. Since they don't have multiple litters each year they don't have so many puppies that there's a need to advertise or have specials on their pups.

I have to wonder why you came to this forum Leah. I'm here to learn about the best way to care for, train and feed my dogs. Also for the discussions that teach me new things every day about showing and breeding even though I have no intention of doing either.

So why did you join this forum? You've posted inflammatory questions since you came here so we have to wonder.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Leah said:


> I just said the personalities and disposition would be great together. I NEVER said anything about cross-breeding them. Ask Sally about her Hav/Bichon mix.
> 
> The big problem with you people is putting things in my mouth.
> 
> *You people are unbelieveable. Anything to pick a fight.* No wonder breeder clubs have such a bad reputation that is if any of you belong to one which I doubt.


I think you need to look in a mirror. You're the one who is unbelievable, and personally I'm so done with you. You came here with a chip on your shoulder from your first post. I will never respond to anything you say here again and I think the group would do well to do the same.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

OH MY! Leah, why do you act like this? I don't normally reply, but it seems you love to stir the pot and create drama. If this is what retirement does to people, I think I'll continue to work! You need another hobby.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Leah said:


> The puppy in the second picture is a litter sister of my girls. There's not a thing wrond with the puppy of Jamie Tudor. She is a very reputable breeder. I know how to tell a good breeder from a bad because I've been around good breeder for all 53 years of my life.


If you think you know so much, then what makes her such a GOOD breeder and why defend her? Maybe she's a good breeder, but that's depends on what your definition of GOOD is. I know my definition is not the same as yours.


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## newhavaneselover (Nov 25, 2009)

holy cow... just reading all this now. First of all, Leah has to have more of a connection to this person. She is defending her and taking everything personally as if it is herself. Anyone else would be upset if they got there dog from this type of place. Maybe this is leah, since all her posts have to do with breeding. Last post she started was about getting a champion and show dog and came her to find out how. All her posts are rambling, and she gets very defensive with anything anyone has to say.


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## TheVintageVamp (Oct 14, 2009)

*Do not bring me into your little drama*



Leah said:


> I just said the personalities and disposition would be great together. I NEVER said anything about cross-breeding them. Ask Sally about her Hav/Bichon mix.
> 
> The big problem with you people is putting things in my mouth.
> 
> You people are unbelieveable. Anything to pick a fight. No wonder breeder clubs have such a bad reputation that is if any of you belong to one which I doubt.


PLEASE! Do not bring me into your battle, which I do not even really understand. Yes, Murray is a Havanese/Bichon Frise mix. Everyone here knows that. They also know I did not go out and seek to buy such a cross, nor do I condone the backyard breeding of such. Murray was a rescue after my beloved yorkshire terrier died at the age of 14. Yes, he is delightful. I got lucky. I've had rescues in the past from puppy mills and it wasn't such a great experience. You asked me a few questions about him and I responded. That was it.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Not sticking up for anyone, but here are two observations.

1. My puppy's nose never turned black. At 2, Cali's nose is brown and she was bred according to best standards. We love her and don't care but this (poor coloration) was mentioned negatively in this thread.

2. I have occasionally seen ads in the Washington Post, placed by a well regarded Hav breeder.


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## mimismom (Feb 15, 2009)

Well sorry I missed all the fun yesterday!! One of my best friend's delivered a beautiful baby girl and I decided to spend my snow day with her. Yes, it snowed in TEXAS!

Leah, I have said NOTHING to anyone about Jamie Tudor and I am GLAD that my forum members discovered those websites that I had already seen after you PMed me with her name. I am only sorry that I did not make sure that her name wasn't the same one that I had seen on Craigslist a few days ago advertising puppies. 

Quit pointing the finger at me for putting your information out there. It speaks for itself!!

I not only asked you about where you got your dogs, I asked several other members. That is what you do when looking for a puppy. RESEARCH!!!!!!!! And I guess Jamie Tudor does know you since you were worried about giving her my name as a referral. Thanks, but no thanks!


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

luv2havs said:


> 1. My puppy's nose never turned black. At 2, Cali's nose is brown and she was bred according to best standards. We love her and don't care but this (poor coloration) was mentioned negatively in this thread.


It's just a disqualification for conformation. No one is suggesting that there is anything "wrong" with Havs lacking pigment around the eyes or not having an entirely properly pigmented nose, it is simply an AKC show regulation.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Just trying to put a stop to this so we can get back to being the nice HF we used to be...


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

Leslie where do you find these. I am reading to see what funny troll pics you post!!! Too funny!


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

Ok am I crazy or what? Did anyone catch that on the FB page the one lady who got a pup from Jamie said that Jamie has now relocated to Dallas?


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## pixie's mom (Dec 27, 2009)

Wooo. Gosh Natalie. Good detective and POOP CATCHER! LOL


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Yes, I noticed it too. Her puppy ads are now in Dallas.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Thank you Kathy!!! That is what I wanted to know!

No disrespect meant at all Nan! We are not saying anything bad about your dog! It's simply a rule about showing.

Leah, that is why I asked if the pigment continued to change, as nose pigment does in puppies, because I don't know. I ask a lot of questions.


I know from when I had horses, you can breed the most perfectly bred 2 quarter horses together, but if the baby has a spot of white in the wrong place on it's body, it can NOT be registered a quarter horse, it must be registered a paint horse, which is a color breed. I had one of these "Quarter Horse Crop Out" horses that I couldn't have loved any more than I did and he was spectacular, even with those little flecks of white on his butt.

Kathy answered my question saying that yes, if the pigment around the eyes is incomplete, the puppy can be registered by virtue of it's parents registration, but if it were to be shown, the lack of pigment would be considered a DQ and that the puppy really should not be bred as it does have that "fault". Of course we can't tell on our computers about that actual puppy, I was just trying to learn about that situation for my own information.

Beverly


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

BeverlyA said:


> Leah, that is why I asked if the pigment continued to change, as nose pigment does in puppies, because I don't know. I ask a lot of questions.


Pigment does continue to change over the first 12 weeks of a puppy's life I would guess. The puppy of Jamie Tudor's you are looking at was barely six week old when that picture was taken. The first Bichon Frise I bought still had some pink on her nose, but it quickly filled in.

Please remember that Jamie is selling this puppy as a pet. She's not claiming that it is show quality. If for some unfortunate reason the pigment doesn't fill in she (the dog) will still make a fantastic pet. Of the three litter mates I saw, this puppy was the most outgoing. The only reason I didn't buy her was because I wanted two puppies that were more similar in their markings. Her name is Molly Sue and she is a wonderful little girl.


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

TheVintageVamp said:


> PLEASE! Do not bring me into your battle, which I do not even really understand. Yes, Murray is a Havanese/Bichon Frise mix. Everyone here knows that. They also know I did not go out and seek to buy such a cross, nor do I condone the backyard breeding of such. Murray was a rescue after my beloved yorkshire terrier died at the age of 14. Yes, he is delightful. I got lucky. I've had rescues in the past from puppy mills and it wasn't such a great experience. You asked me a few questions about him and I responded. That was it.


I guess we're no longer friends. I have done nothing to you or anyone else on this site. I've only asked question and you and your friends have taken offense.


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

I invite all of you to come meet my puppies and you tell me how they have suffered from being brought into this world by such a terrible person (not).


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

Leeann said:


> The pieces just started to fal into place today, it is too bad so much time was wasted but hopefully others have learned something.
> 
> This is what did it for me:
> 
> http://dogs.oodle.com/view/akc-havanese-pups-male-and-female/1717535478-houston-tx/


That's my Poppy in that picture.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Leah----I'm gonna ask you to not be so confrontation in your posts and tone it down a bit. People are/were trying to help you.

I am a moderator on this forum and it will just not be tolerated. You can be nice and ask your questions and people will answer you and you'll get a wide variety of answers,but know in advance that this is a public forum and you may not agree with the answers you get...you can not insult and be confrontational/threatening etc. It just simply will not be tolerated.


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

CacheHavs said:


> Here is "Leah's puppy" that she has posted here on the forum (if that's even her name)


If that's even whose name? Of all the terrible things you and your friends have said about me, you need to take a step back and look at yourselves.

Everything I have said on this forum has been totally truthful. If not, YOU prove it to me.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Leah--have you ever heard the old saying--"you can get more flies with sugar then with vinegar?" You are acting like vinegar....do you see what I'm saying?


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Im backing up Julie on this one. TAKE IT DOWN A NOTCH. Or as they used to say on SNL Simmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmer Down Now.  We have fun here, thats the only rule. Unless I make up another rule tonight after a glass of Vino.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Leah-You speak so highly of Jamie but Jamie says she doesn't know you.


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

Natalie,

What do you hope to gain by your assult of Jamie Tudor on Facebook?

I don't understand.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

Maybe you should ask her that question privately or on facebook. Seriously I dont want this headache of issues here. You get that right? If this was a civilized conversation about ethical breeding, great. But its not, its like a playground fight. 

SO No more posts at ALL with negative vibes. You want to beef with someone do it privately. K? Thanks.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Thanks for the pigment info Leah. There's so much about puppies and dogs I still have to learn.

Beverly


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Melissa Miller said:


> Im backing up Julie on this one. TAKE IT DOWN A NOTCH. Or as they used to say on SNL Simmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmer Down Now.  We have fun here, thats the only rule. Unless I make up another rule tonight after a glass of Vino.


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

Julie said:


> Leah--have you ever heard the old saying--"you can get more flies with sugar then with vinegar?" You are acting like vinegar....do you see what I'm saying?


Julie, I hear you. I'm learning that there are certain subjects that cannot be discussed here. I just want to know if someone is questioning the validity of my name.

Also, I'd like to say that I know Jamie Tudor personally and she if a very reputable breeder. The topic of this thread asks this and I have answered. Please hear me.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Leah, I am hearing that you got your two females from Jamie at Christmas time. You are happy with your pups and Jamie, your breeder. Personally I know of nothing to dispute that. 
I hope you love and enjoy your puppies until eternity!
It doesn't appear to me that you are unhappy so I guess there's nothing for anyone else to say.
Just enjoy and look at the bright side, all's OK!
Let's just get past this..........


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Leah said:


> Julie, I hear you. I'm learning that there are certain subjects that cannot be discussed here. I just want to know if someone is questioning the validity of my name.
> 
> Also, I'd like to say that I know Jamie Tudor personally and she if a very reputable breeder. The topic of this thread asks this and I have answered. Please hear me.


I disagree. I think you can bring up any subject, you just can't come off angry and abrasive. When you act nasty, some people don't react to that well.


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

lfung5 said:


> I disagree. I think you can bring up any subject, you just can't come off angry and abrasive. When you act nasty, some people don't react to that well.


I was only defending myself because you and your friends came off angry and abrasive.


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## Leah (Jan 12, 2010)

lfung5 said:


> I disagree. I think you can bring up any subject, you just can't come off angry and abrasive. When you act nasty, some people don't react to that well.


I was only defending myself because you and your friends came off angry and abrasive. I had questions and no one would answer them.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Leah,
Put it to rest please.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes,please don't stir the pot...I'm on the edge of just closing this thread. It serves no purpose at this point.


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