# Tools/techniques for thick dense coat



## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

Hello all,

So, Fedja's hair is getting longer and he has so much of it!. Yesterday I was on a dog show and one of the breeders told me I could take his undercoat out bc he has such a dense coat (he is not a show dog anyway, so that would also make a grooming a lot easier on both of us). As she was very busy there was no time to ask about details, so that's why I would love to hear about your experiences with dense coats.

I would love to make Fedja's hair less voluminous, but not sure how to go about this. What tools to get? I just bought 'From nose to tail' book, and it says: 
'Rakes are used to simply "comb" trough the coat. The rake will drag the dead and discarded hair out. *Raking will also remove undercoat which may be especially useful if your Havanese has a dense or heavy undercoat*. There are a large variety of rakes on the market.'

Does anyone have a tip on a good rake that you have experience with?
I really have to do something about the thickness of Fedja's coat, as it also takes years to get him dry after a bath or swim.

In the same book there is a section about thinning (pets only!) your Havanese. I didn't want to thin his coat out with thinning shears as I read everywhere it makes the mats worse. The book says:
'Make your cuts about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way along the length, not too close to the skin and not to close to the tips.'
Maybe this is the secret...not thinning out close to the skin?! Are there less mats produced if the coat is thinned this way? 
Any tips?


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Hi, here's a link to a product on amazon that I would recommend:

Amazon.com: Weaver Leather MANE & TAIL THINNING RAKE: Sports & Outdoors

You don't have to get that exact one, but basically a large de-matter. I have one made by Laube. I use it to take out undercoat/demat areas on large dogs such as Golden Retriever's butts, but I fould it also works great on a full coated tibetan terrier that I groom who has an out of control thick coat. I use the undercoat rake and thinning shears. I found that doesn't really create matting issues as much as when I gave her a puppy cut, she definitely had more issues after that! Here she is waiting for her owner to pick her up, she was moving around a lot so the picture isn't great but the large dematter definitely made my job easier. The before picture really gives you a sense of how much of a mess she is because of her coat, but she really is a beautiful dog.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

What a pretty dog! Almost makes me want one!


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## El Bueno Habanero (Oct 20, 2009)

You did a great job on that TT! He looks stunning!!! 
Thnx for your tip. I'll take a look if a Laube de-matters are available over here.


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## miko (May 28, 2008)

atsilvers27, do you have any other recommendation for dematters that's sold on Amazon? Our Miko has crazy, thick, fluffy cotton hair and he's a mess. He gets matted so easily and very close to the skin. We keep him short, but he's still puffy like a chow chow.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

A caveat: beware of rakes/de-matters with blades. You will mostly likely NOT want to use one of these on your Hav.

I have been using a rake similar to this one for both of my Lhasas and now my two Havs. I often use it to help remove mats as well as removing dead undercoat.

Amazon.com: Under Coat Rake (long): Pet Supplies

There are some others that I have seen that have two rows of teeth than spin. I already have a comb that does this [which I like] so I never bought this tool.

I also have a type rake that is shaped differently that I found at Petco that is pretty good at taking apart mats. Because of its shape [triangular] and fewer teeth than the other rake I have, it requires more passes through the coat to remove dead hair, so I don't rely on it for that purpose.

http://www.petco.com/product/14588/...ate Touch Instant Mat & Tangle Remover -14588


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I cant remember how old maddie was when I took this picture. She had a bunch of mats and her breeder recommended using a tool that had a razer blade in it. I don't think I knew what I was doing. She also had some sort of skin condition I never did know what it was. any way be careful with the blades


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

miko said:


> atsilvers27, do you have any other recommendation for dematters that's sold on Amazon? Our Miko has crazy, thick, fluffy cotton hair and he's a mess. He gets matted so easily and very close to the skin. We keep him short, but he's still puffy like a chow chow.


Ok, there's a couple of things to keep in mind. One, If a dog doesn't have the genetics for a silky coat it's going to take more effort to keep it looking nice. Second, my dog has silky hair and she only looks nice for about 30 second after I groom her. I can't stress enough the importance of regular brushing and combing with quality tools. If I stay on top of it, it takes me less than 5 minutes to comb her out and redo her topknot. If I slack off and don't do it for a few days it can take an hour to undo what would have taken only a few minutes. Absolutely the most important tool.is the greyhound comb. Even my expensive Chris Christensen brush can't do what my greyhound comb can do. The comb will usually penetrate down to the skin and show where mats are by getting "stuck" you just need to make sure you're using it over every square inch on your dog. The large dematter I would only use on dogs that are not being shown, which the original poster pointed out. Also any time you take out hair with blades you have to keep up with it bc the cut hair will be stimulated to grow and so can get tangled with the other hairs. Some highly recommended products are Isle of Dogs Heavy Management conditioner and also Pure Paws silk something, it's in a little jar. If you're concerned about price, I recommend getting Coat Handler on Petedge.com, it's a lot cheaper than amazon. It's trial and error to find what products work best on your dog. Also try to avoid slicker brushes, most will damage delicate Hav hair, slickers are better left to larger dogs such as Goldens. You can also try doing a nice stretch dry on the coat, that's how groomers get that blow dried look. Finally, make sure you're dogs skin and coat is healthy. There are a few websites that rate commercial dog food and I found it helpful. Isle of dogs does make a liquid supplement and there's a powder supplement called Show Stopper on amazon that seems good. Its always a good idea to run it by your vet first before giving supplements esp with young puppies or dogs that have a health compromise.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

miko said:


> atsilvers27, do you have any other recommendation for dematters that's sold on Amazon? Our Miko has crazy, thick, fluffy cotton hair and he's a mess. He gets matted so easily and very close to the skin. We keep him short, but he's still puffy like a chow chow.


Sorry, to answer your question better my go-to tool is my greyhound metal comb. Mine is made by Laube, but I just lost it and replaced it with a Martha Stewart comb and I don't like it. Any good quality comb will do. You have to be careful with dematters because they can damage coat and make it mat faster. For pets in a short cut you can use the smaller dematters that are curved at the end. I don't care for the non-bladed traditional undercoat rake. Although this tool would protect the hair better, I don't find it as effective as the comb or the large dematter and tends to just tug on the dog if it snags. The teeth are too far apart to work the mat out like the comb and the non-bladed teeth can't cut through the mat, just creating tugging on the dog and increasing the dog's discomfort.


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## miko (May 28, 2008)

Thanks for all the advice! Unfortunatly, Miko is so matted that we ended up using a blade dematter plus scissor for areas that are really close to his skin. We will have to regularly brush him now, especially his problem areas. We have two Chris Christensen greyhound combs (small and large) and LOVE them. We also use a slicker alot because a rep at a dog show said slicker is good to pull out loose hair or little knots. Maybe we shouldn't now. We notice Miko's back near his butt is very dry so we been using Coat Handler Detangler Spray. It helps a little but still very dry. Miko's hair is a nightmare to maintain but Milo is much thinner and easy to comb through. The boys has a drawer full of grooming supplies despite the fact that we take them to the groomer regularly for $70 a dog. *sigh*


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

Ahhh!!!!! I'm so confused! Rakes, combs, Laub, Christensen. I don't know what to buy . . . (I'm in retail-induced-despair!).


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

What do you all think? Do I want this:

Amazon.com: 4.5-inch BUTTERCOMB ( All Fine) by Chris Christensen: Pet Supplies

or this (yikes - $40!):

Amazon.com: Chris Christensen Buttercomb 6 inches: Pet Supplies

or this?

Amazon.com: Fine/Coarse BUTTERCOMB by Chris Christensen: Pet Supplies

I just can't decide! But I DO love the idea of a comb that slides through like butter.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jessegirl said:


> What do you all think? Do I want this:
> 
> Amazon.com: 4.5-inch BUTTERCOMB ( All Fine) by Chris Christensen: Pet Supplies
> 
> ...


The fine/coarse one is the one you want (unless you decide to get the face comb too) It seems expensive, but barring losing it, it's the only comb you'll ever need.


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

I was given some really good advice, after getting the mats out bathe the dog and dry it while brushing. It helps to keep mats from forming as quickly. Of course clean hair mats less and if the dog is going through coat change, expect mats, just not such tight ones if you groom every day.


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

krandall said:


> The fine/coarse one is the one you want (unless you decide to get the face comb too) It seems expensive, but barring losing it, it's the only comb you'll ever need.


Thanks, Karen. I went with the fine/coarse butter comb. I can't wait to experience the butter!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

yup, this is the one I use also, I had a cheaper one from pet smart, but the tines just were not long enough to get down to the skin once Tillie's coat got longer so I needed to "upgrade"! I also use a small flea comb to get the gunk out of her eyes and comb her muzzle... I need to get a better one of these soon also... but ya, no need for tons of tools, this comb is REALLY the best investment you can make!! I would be LOST if I lost my CC buttercomb!!


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

We just had a major brush session tonight. It took a while with our regular pin brush. We had to do a partial shower last night - but bath kind of deal (still changing food). DH did it but didn't do a full shampoo/condition and Rollie ended up with mats today. But as long as we have cheese, we're ok.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

jessegirl said:


> We just had a major brush session tonight. It took a while with our regular pin brush. We had to do a partial shower last night - but bath kind of deal (still changing food). DH did it but didn't do a full shampoo/condition and Rollie ended up with mats today. But as long as we have cheese, we're ok.


You'll see a big difference with the comb. Don't forget, doing a partial bath DOES NOT create matting, it's getting the tangled hair wet that creates mats. My puppy had a virus and had bad diarrhea for a week and got matted up because of the constant baths. Try to keep it down as much as possible by combing her in two short sessions each day even if she is still damp. Once she gets over it, do frequent short dematting sessions but DO NOT BATHE HER until she is completely mat free. Most people think a dog doesn't have any mats but it does, then they blame the shampoo or conditioner or whatnot. This is where the comb comes in, as long as you run it thoroughly through her EVERYWHERE, you will be able to find the mats. Also use a hair dryer (low or no heat) to "see" where mats are. Hair that is mat-free you will be able to see each hair individually blow out from where the air is blowing. Matted hair looks clumpy and doesn't separate. Do this BEFORE the bath, also I second blow drying and brushing at the same time. If you can afford it, buy a fluff dryer.


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## miko (May 28, 2008)

jessegirl said:


> What do you all think? Do I want this:
> 
> Amazon.com: 4.5-inch BUTTERCOMB ( All Fine) by Chris Christensen: Pet Supplies
> 
> ...


We have spent over $100 on Chris Christensen combs. My wife swears by them. I swear at my wallet.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

atsilvers27 said:


> If you can afford it, buy a fluff dryer.


What is a "fluff dryer"? I bought what I think is called a "force dryer", and whether it's the dryer itself, or the ineptitude of the operator, I haven't had good results with it. The couple of times I've used it, he's ended up looking like I plugged him into a light socket!ound:


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

That's good info, atsilvers. I figured that getting him wet but not conditioning him caused the mats, but I guess it makes sense that they were there already. Amazon has informed me that my comb has shipped! Hooray!!

Miko, your last post cracked me up.


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