# puppy growling at family members



## kaos (Sep 16, 2008)

we have had our havanese pup for a month (now 4 mos old). when we stop him from doing something that interests him, he is growling at family members. we chose this particular breed because of their even temperment, but find this concerning as we have a young son. any ideas or suggestions??


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Check out this thread link...http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=6047 there are a lot of good suggestions/tips...

Welcome to the forum!

By the way, ANY dog might try to be the pack leader if you folks aren't!  Havanese or not...


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Growling is a sign of warning and for that reason, I don't silence growling. Your dog needs to be able to use his voice to let you know when he's upset by something, but I _*try to stop the cause*_ of the growling. If the dog is growling because you are taking something away, then I make sure I take it away and let the dog know who is in control. If he allows me to take it and doesn't freak on me, then I praise him and give him the toy back. I will try to take it away again in a few second and he will see that he will get it right back when he responds correctly.

Be sure to reward correct behavior with a lot of praise. Reinforce the behavior you want to see.

By the way, not all Havanese have even temperaments. Some are aggressive and some have fearful temperaments (or show signs of fear aggression). Temperament is the most genetically heritable trait passed down from canine parents. It is important that the breeder has sound breeding stock and breeds to the standard to reproduce both physical and temperament traits.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Hmph. You may just have a lil' alpha on your hands and have to work diligently to let him know his place in the pack and he doesn't make the rules, you do. I would put him on his back and hold firmly and growl a firm "NO" back at him.

Is it an aggressive growl or more of a grumble? Some havs grumble, but you'd know if it was aggression or annoyance. Just keep letting him know you make the rules and don't bend an inch, puppies will test their limits and express themselves in a bigger way, like an infant, but as they grow and find their place in the pack and learn the rules, I think you can resolve it.

Gucci did growl a few times when someone would wake her up, honestly, I didn't even think it was really aggressive in nature, but more of a 'let me sleep' type thing. I didn't tolerate it and it stopped, although if someone wakes her up now, she will *huff*. lol Its kinda funny, so I know it still annoys her to be woken up, but she knows better to growl or grumble!

K


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

In my opinion he has a dominate personality. But you can teach him that everyone in your home is above him in ranking. Here are some things that I have done with all my boys, that teaches them that you are in charge and teaches them good manners.

Have him sit/lay and then put down his food bowl, don't let him eat until you say okay. This is a big one, as you are controlling his food. Which is one of the most important things to him. 

Have him sit/lay before you pet him, let him up on furniture with you, or playing fetch with him. Once again, it teaches him who is in charge. 

Have him sit/wait outside the door until you say okay. Don't let him walk through a door before any humans. Its hard to do this when they need to go outside, as when they need to go, they need to go. :biggrin1: I block them with my legs or only open the door a little, when teaching them this, and if they sneak through, I go pick them up and set them back outside the door and start over. It only takes a day or two and they will be looking up at you waiting for you to say okay. 

Don't open his crate until he is sitting quitely. Walk up to the crate and open the door a little. If he jumps up at the door, close it and wait for him to calm down, and repeat. Believe me he will understand your message, it only takes a couple of days and he will sit as soon as he see's you coming to let him out. You don't even have to say anything, just keep closing the door. I also make them wait for me to say okay, before they can get out of the crate. I learn this after I got hit in the nose early one morning, by a over excited hav. lol 

When training you have to say okay as soon as they do what you want. That way it makes it easier for them to make the connection. 

I am not sure how old your son is, but if he is aleast three or four, he can do these things under your supervision and he will learn your son is above him in the pack and you will be teaching your son how to train a dog. 

I did this when I got my lab and my daughter was 3. She was very proud of herself, that she got her dog to sit for her.


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## Perugina (May 28, 2008)

kaos said:


> we have had our havanese pup for a month (now 4 mos old). when we stop him from doing something that interests him, he is growling at family members. we chose this particular breed because of their even temperment, but find this concerning as we have a young son. any ideas or suggestions??


How exactly are you stopping the unwanted behavior? We brought Sophie to puppy class at about 4-6 mo. old. It really gives you a good foundation to work from to set rules, boundaries and limitations with your pup. Especially useful is the "leave it" and "uh, uh, uh" commands. We just went to the local Petsmart classes, which I think are pretty good. We also went through the intermediate class, which expands on some of the things learned in the puppy class.

Basically you want to distract/warn him away from the unwanted behavior by a lower, firm sound and/or giving him something acceptable to play with. If he abandons the bad behavior for the good, praise him lavishly and/or give him a treat.

When Sophie gets wound up playing tug, and you try to pet or touch her, she growls. I think it's just a play growl because she never tries to nip or bite, she just tugs harder while she is growling. We think it's hilarious...but someone who doesn't know her could be scared by it.

How old are your kids? With young ones and small dogs, it's good to teach them to act calmly and not try to touch them from overhead. I've taught the kids in my neighborhood to let Sophie come to them and sniff first. Then they can squat down and scratch under her chin. Once they know each other better they can get rowdy with her, play chase, tug, etc. without fear on either side.

Good luck! I hope you decide to do some classes! If you kids are old enough to participate, even better!


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

First make sure it is a growl and not like the play-growl.

Second, if it is in fact an alpha ddoing a warning at you, I would discipline the dog immediately. In the area of 'Don't You Growl At Me Mister!" shock and awe is hpw I handled it.


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## kaos (Sep 16, 2008)

thanks so much for all the input. my son is 8 and both he and I are already doing the puppy classes at Petsmart. the growl is definitely not a playful one. my son is holding a "family meeting" today so that we can discuss what all of you have mentioned and then decide what we're going to do so we're all on the same page here. we've endured hours, days and years of pleading for this dog so it's nice to see he's taking ownership seriously. we'll keep you posted! thanks again....


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

^^^ that's an impressive son you've got there.

Remember too, the dog, well is still a puppy until age 2. He looks to his pack leader for guidance and discipline and what is acceptable and what is not. Exactly as his mommy and litter did for him when he would play too hard or bite down too much.

Also: we need pictures of this furbaby of yours!


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## Perugina (May 28, 2008)

I'm totally impressed with your son! Good luck, post pics, and let us know how it goes!


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

I highly recommend using NILF, which is pretty much what Paige posted above, he gets absolutely _nothing_ for free. You can read about it here. Another great article is, Who's In Charge Here? A Lesson in Becoming Alpha. Good luck and keep us posted!


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## kaos (Sep 16, 2008)

well, we had our meeting and are trying putting him on his back when he growls (the angry growl). this seems to be working well. At first my son was intimidated, but I think the dog is learning he is not the boss! we've got a couple of more classes under our belt too so I think we'll be ok - til the next issue comes along.... thanks all!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> Growling is a sign of warning and for that reason, I don't silence growling. Your dog needs to be able to use his voice to let you know when he's upset by something, but I _*try to stop the cause*_ of the growling. If the dog is growling because you are taking something away, then I make sure I take it away and let the dog know who is in control. If he allows me to take it and doesn't freak on me, then I praise him and give him the toy back. I will try to take it away again in a few second and he will see that he will get it right back when he responds correctly.
> 
> Be sure to reward correct behavior with a lot of praise. Reinforce the behavior you want to see.
> 
> By the way, not all Havanese have even temperaments. Some are aggressive and some have fearful temperaments (or show signs of fear aggression). Temperament is the most genetically heritable trait passed down from canine parents. It is important that the breeder has sound breeding stock and breeds to the standard to reproduce both physical and temperament traits.


Excellent advice Kimberly . Never reprimand growling . Work on its cause. Punishing growling is like taking the batteries out of your smoke alarm.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

YES! i like that idea. I did that for a while with henry, each evening while watching tv.
just the process of holding him on his back and being dominant worked. (I would do it for the duration of 2 or 3 tv commercials).


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> Hmph. You may just have a lil' alpha on your hands and have to work diligently to let him know his place in the pack and he doesn't make the rules, you do. I would put him on his back and hold firmly and growl a firm "NO" back at him.
> 
> Is it an aggressive growl or more of a grumble? Some havs grumble, but you'd know if it was aggression or annoyance. Just keep letting him know you make the rules and don't bend an inch, puppies will test their limits and express themselves in a bigger way, like an infant, but as they grow and find their place in the pack and learn the rules, I think you can resolve it.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree with you. Here is one of many articles about the "alpha" theory. http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/alpha-roll-or-alpha-role


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

We had a lot of trouble with Gryff growling at Alec, as most of you already know. It seems to be all worked out now, however they still aren't the best of friends. You absolutely need to have every member of your family actively taking care of the dog. Feeding, walking, brushing, etc. Crating has also really helped us here at our house. My husband has recently taken to letting Gryff out as much as I do and their relationship has improved 100%. It does take some time, but it should work itself out.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*growling at kids*

i started taking Riki to elementary school with Alana and he learned to love the kids. He did growl at Alana when he was a puppy because she kept picking him up and carrying him around which he never likes. He wants to be on the floor.

Daisy has never growled at her because she likes being held. I had to do two things, she wasn't to pick him up...only to sit down next to him and let him come to her...not trap him...and also I would make an anh sound to him if he growled at her for getting near him. He hasn't growled at her since then...but she also doesn't pick him up either.

He still makes a growl at my husband when he picks him up to take him downstairs to pee...he doesn't want to leave my side. Riki is totally dedicated to me, where Daisy is much more a family dog. She has always had Riki.

I don't believe in putting them on their belly, unless they are already relaxed and then you can stroke them gently to see you will cause no harm. It is a complicated procedure, and I don't do it. Riki is alpha if I let him, but I am more alpha. I feed myself first, walk in the door first, and don't acknowledge him until he settles down. This has helped.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

There are many different opinions and beliefs of dog training, like there are in child rearing. Often you can get lots of ideas from others, then try them on, see what works, and see what makes sense to you. Some things work, some things...not so much. I think that the ideas in "nothing comes for free" (I can't remember it exactly,) is a good foundation. Sometimes just ignoring bad behavior doesn't make it go away. Much like with children.

Sheri


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

I don't know why it surprises me to read about havs that are very alpha, protective, growling. From the ones I've met so far, it seems so out of character, but I guess they are all different. I am about to choose a puppy, and I sure hope I don't get an alpha growler. I don't know if I could handle that.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

But growling isn't an "alpha" trait. It is more like a human complaining or like a child saying "I don't want to." It doesn't mean they are bad. It means they are communicating.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*we have a friend whose dog talks growls...*

She talk growls it is really funny.

Daisy also does this silly happy growling sound when Alana or Perry come home. I don't think it is alpha either.

When animals dominate another animal they surround them with a paw, which is why I think some dogs like to be the one to choose to go on to a lap rather than being surrounded by big arms. We don't pick up labs or shepherds and put them in our laps.

Riki was just communicating to Alana that he doesn't want her to pick him up and take him away from me. He loves her when she sits down on the floor and he can come to her. What dog wants to be trapped...I had to teach Alana and all her friends that while he is a toy dog, he is a dog...not a toy!

Dress up the stuffed animals. Sit on the ground and call the real dog to you and respect his rights!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Petaluna said:


> I don't know why it surprises me to read about havs that are very alpha, protective, growling. From the ones I've met so far, it seems so out of character, but I guess they are all different. I am about to choose a puppy, and I sure hope I don't get an alpha growler. I don't know if I could handle that.


My Tucker doesn't growl. I've never had trouble with my dogs on taking their food, or toys. I also have always made it clear that I go through the door first, unless I give them permission to go without me, (for example, out into the back yard to potty.) My other dogs (different breeds,) haven't growled, either, unless it was in playing tug-of-war with their toy. My brother has a mix, (Yorkie/Poo) who, when he wants you to play, will grab his ball, put his little paws on your chest and "grrrrr". It is plain that he's offering an invitation to play, however. He doesn't growl as a threat... (wouldn't be allowed to, if he tried, though, either. He'd be scolded.)

I think that you've done a lot of research with dogs, it sounds like you've got firm control over who will be boss, and you don't need to worry a bit.

Sheri


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Rikidaisy said:


> She talk growls it is really funny.
> 
> Riki was just communicating to Alana that he doesn't want her to pick him up and take him away from me. He loves her when she sits down on the floor and he can come to her. What dog wants to be trapped...I had to teach Alana and all her friends that while he is a toy dog, he is a dog...not a toy!
> 
> Dress up the stuffed animals. Sit on the ground and call the real dog to you and respect his rights!


Good point. One you would hope it is obvious to folks, but isn't always. I do the same with my grandkids. Dogs aren't toys. They are to be treated with respect, and be respected by, in return.

Sheri


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## taberghold (Oct 29, 2008)

*puppy growling*

I have the exact same situation. We have had our new baby hav for 2 months now and he is 4 months as well. He growls at my boys when they try to pet him while he is sleeping. I tell him "NO" in a low voice and then have the boys pet him again and give him praise for not growling again. Any other time he growls, it is when he is playing. I think he has a dominant personality and we just need to show him who's boss.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*I growl at my husband too*

When my husband is snoring or flops his arm over me when I am sleeping, I growl in a human way....

It is a form of communicating!

And when they play...talk about growl city. Kids have told me my dogs were fighting...but they are just hav-ing fun.

You have to learn to watch their tails for language. It is easier to read on other breeds...but you know when their tails are down...


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

kaos said:


> we have had our havanese pup for a month (now 4 mos old). when we stop him from doing something that interests him, he is growling at family members. we chose this particular breed because of their even temperment, but find this concerning as we have a young son. any ideas or suggestions??


NILF, NILF, NILF. That said, temperament is one of the things breeders have to watch for as it's passed on to the puppies.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Sheri said:


> Good point. One you would hope it is obvious to folks, but isn't always. I do the same with my grandkids. Dogs aren't toys. They are to be treated with respect, and be respected by, in return.
> 
> Sheri


:clap2::clap2:


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## marisoma (Jan 20, 2008)

Giotto is 10 months and still occasionally growls, usually at kids who are picking him up or playing with him. It definitely concerns me and we have tried various things to stop it and it has lessened somewhat, but it is clearly still there. He growls most consistently at my 12 year old niece. He loves to see her and he goes right up to her and licks her and is wagging his tail but the moment she reaches to pick him up or holds him he starts growling and sometimes snarling. I try to correct it by telling him no and I do have her put him down when he does that, but it hasn't stopped him. 

He also does it to our 10 year old neighbor who just loves Giotto and Giotto is happy to be petted by him or lick him, but as soon as the kid goes to pick him up Giotto starts to growl. I don't know what causes this because he doesn't growl at me or anyone else in the house. He did it once at the Vet's when the tech tried to take him out of my arms and the Vet told me I needed to stop that behavior because it was as sign of aggression and she suggested keeping a head halter collar on him to use as correction when he growls. I haven't done that yet as honestly it just seems unnecessary. His growling seems to be person or situation specific. He does it with certain kids and when he is threatened or afraid. I would just like to get it under control and so far I haven't been able to do that.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> NILF, NILF, NILF. That said, temperament is one of the things breeders have to watch for as it's passed on to the puppies.


That's what the breeder here says, that a part of this behavior is temperment and passed on, or some could be alpha behavior that shows up as a puppy, so many different opinions on this and we just have to find what works. I had thought most breeders could spot alpha behavior young and that did include some things like growling, not laying on back or cooperating, etc. Is that not the latest theory? lol I can't keep up with all the changing views on this anymore.

I agree totally on teaching the kids how to be respectful to the dog!

I have to laugh at the 'huff'/'sigh' that I hear from Gucci when she is annoyed with something or mad at me! LOL She still lets everyone know she's not happy, but does so by pouting...its kinda funny, just yesterday I had sprinkled some carpet freshner and she was mad at me for a good 20 minutes over it because she couldn't lay in her usual spot! ound:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

davetgabby said:


> I have to disagree with you. Here is one of many articles about the "alpha" theory. http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/alpha-roll-or-alpha-role


yes, I've read that before, but it did work well for me, I think that is one of the things so great about a forum, one thing might work for one person, but not another, and its the sharing of many ideas that can help us individually solve problems  Pet rearing isn't an exact science, nor is child rearing, nor life in general


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Kodi is a big growler, but just when he is playing. Just this morning he wanted to play, so he grabbed a toy out of the toybox and brought it to me. When I went to get it, I got a great big growl. But he let's me take it so I can throw it or play tug.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

marisoma said:


> Giotto is 10 months and still occasionally growls, usually at kids who are picking him up or playing with him. It definitely concerns me and we have tried various things to stop it and it has lessened somewhat, but it is clearly still there. He growls most consistently at my 12 year old niece. He loves to see her and he goes right up to her and licks her and is wagging his tail but the moment she reaches to pick him up or holds him he starts growling and sometimes snarling. I try to correct it by telling him no and I do have her put him down when he does that, but it hasn't stopped him.
> 
> He also does it to our 10 year old neighbor who just loves Giotto and Giotto is happy to be petted by him or lick him, but as soon as the kid goes to pick him up Giotto starts to growl. I don't know what causes this because he doesn't growl at me or anyone else in the house. He did it once at the Vet's when the tech tried to take him out of my arms and the Vet told me I needed to stop that behavior because it was as sign of aggression and she suggested keeping a head halter collar on him to use as correction when he growls. I haven't done that yet as honestly it just seems unnecessary. His growling seems to be person or situation specific. He does it with certain kids and when he is threatened or afraid. I would just like to get it under control and so far I haven't been able to do that.


*Never use a head halter collar for correction.* That's used _after you've been taught how to use one properly _for getting your dog to walk correctly on a _short_ leash.
It could be that your dog has had a bad experience with a child picking him up. Kids can do odd things to dogs when we aren't looking. (My own kids informed me of that and they were taught to respect animals). Go back to square one and have a child gently pick your dog up and set them down. Lots of loves and treats while doing it.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> yes, I've read that before, but it did work well for me, I think that is one of the things so great about a forum, one thing might work for one person, but not another, and its the sharing of many ideas that can help us individually solve problems  Pet rearing isn't an exact science, nor is child rearing, nor life in general


The alpha roll was used for umpty squat years by trainers until it became not cool. I've used it a couple of times on my own dogs for immediate control but it's not something I'd do with a dog I'm training. You know your own dog's personality down to a science and know if they can handle it and what the response will be.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Jan, I think a portion of it just is that puppies will test their limits, but they grow and fall in love with you more and more every day and then there is the drive to *please*.

Now, if she ever growled at me now, I'd flip out. But I think she has a level of respect for me, and love that probably has more influence than the training I did way back when.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*kid energy*

Kids are highly unpredictable...and havanese sense energy as they do when we are upset or ill. It is safer for the havanese not to be picked up, as they can be dropped and hurt their growing bones.

It is better for the kids to sit on the ground and call the dog to them...again, do we pick up labs or big dogs? Havanese growl to protect themselves, they are scared.

Kids don't need to pick up dogs, they don't like to be carried around much. They do enjoy going on laps and licking.

Again, introduce them to lots of nice, respectful kids...and the havvies will calm down. I tell the kids not to jump and scream and run around the house, this makes the dog see that they aren't big puppies who might hurt them.

Riki growls at big puppies at the dog park, he is scared they are out of control and will jump on him.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I have to laugh at the 'huff'/'sigh' that I hear from Gucci when she is annoyed with something or mad at me! LOL She still lets everyone know she's not happy said:


> I can't help but smile hearing about Gucci's "huffs" too. Sounds like she's a little character, which our Havs are supposed to be!
> 
> Sheri


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## NewHavMom (Mar 20, 2008)

Hey sis, get pictures up of chewy! He's not aggressive, in time with correction he will be fine.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> Jan, I think a portion of it just is that puppies will test their limits, but they grow and fall in love with you more and more every day and then there is the drive to *please*.
> 
> Now, if she ever growled at me now, I'd flip out. But I think she has a level of respect for me, and love that probably has more influence than the training I did way back when.


I'm with you. My dogs don't like to get me mad because then they have to listen to me.....and I can rant with the best of them :biggrin1:


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## lcy_pt (Aug 17, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> I have to laugh at the 'huff'/'sigh' that I hear from Gucci when she is annoyed with something or mad at me! LOL She still lets everyone know she's not happy, *but does so by pouting.*..its kinda funny, just yesterday I had sprinkled some carpet freshner and she was mad at me for a good 20 minutes over it because she couldn't lay in her usual spot! ound:


ound:


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