# Sick puppy, X-rays



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Okay, this is VERY long but I’m including every detail I can think of just in case. 

Puppy had been acting sick on and off for about a week and a half, with occasional intermittent diarrhea but regular poop in between. Took him to the vet on Thursday after a scary incident where he seemed worse very suddenly. He had thrown up and then laid down, and my daughter cleaned it up and then when to comfort him pppp and he didn’t move his head or open his eyes like he usually does. She found she had to shake him to rouse him and it really scared her. Until last night he hadn’t eaten since Wednesday and before that his appetite had gradually decreased since Monday. 

On Thursday they didn’t have appointments left so the vet took him for drop off. While he was there he was “very alert and responsive” which I now attribute to his anxiety, and nothing in the exam indicated any problem - good vitals, no stomach tenderness, etc. He was more like his usual self when I went to check in and pick him up, so we decided to give it a day or so and offer him other food. 

When he got home he still wouldn’t eat or drink and slept continually until I called the vet on Friday morning and said he seemed worse. They fit us in and decided to do X-rays. There were two small things on the X-ray. One is that he showed me that there is a pattern they look for in obstructions, but that it is very small, less than a quarter of the size of what they would look for in a complete obstruction or a surgical case. The other is something unusual in his stomach. At this time it seems like he ate a non-food item that made him sick to his stomach and a small amount is just sitting there at the bottom of his stomach. The vet actually called the other doctor in because it appeared grainy like sand but didn’t look like sand normally appears on X-rays. They gave him a shot with the goal of getting to eat so it would move through his stomach. 

The shot did work - when we got home he still wouldn’t eat kibble but he ate 2 whole Stella and Chewy freeze dried patties. I thought we should wait a few minutes so we offered him another 15 minutes later and he ate that, too, and then scavenged around looking for anything interesting on the pantry floor (didn’t find anything but it’s like a game to him) and seemed much more his usual self for an hour or so. 

In the night he woke me up to take him potty 3 times. The first was about the quarter of the size of a normal poop followed by watery diarrhea. The others were small amounts of watery diarrhea. He had diarrhea twice more this morning, but he won’t eat again, even when offered his favorite, whipped cream. 

I have a number to call to check in today, but I wanted to check here first because our usual vet is out of town and this is a different vet in the same office. With my kids I know what questions to ask and I can trust the doctor while maintaining a healthy skepticism. I don’t feel like I know how to do that with the vet at all because I’m just not an experienced dog owner. 

One thing I’m concerned about that I didn’t think of until later is that small pattern. Is it possible it looks so small because he’s eaten so little, but that eating more could cause it to become more obstructed, or is it just a pattern that happens to look similar to an obstruction so just keep an eye on it? 

Where he hasn’t eaten in so long, and now is eating patties instead of his usual kibble/patty blend, should I expect him to have diarrhea for a period of time? 

I’m going to check in late afternoon with the vet but I wanted to run this by the forum in case I should be asking different questions or bringing anything up. 

One thing I brought up on Thursday with the vet on the phone but forgot about on Friday is this choking sound he’s made on occasion over the past week and a half or so. It’s a really strange sound I can’t describe, and the vet suggested it could be a reverse sneeze. I haven’t heard a reverse sneeze, but to me it really sounds like he’s choking something up, and now I’m wondering if he’s tried to throw up whatever is in his stomach. It sounded much worse and almost sort of wheezy for a few minutes after his bath a few days ago, and he loves to drink from the hanging shower head while I’m switching between shampoo and conditioner. His stomach was probably more full, so it makes sense that could make it sound worse. DS has poor esophageal motility and the sounds remind me of the sounds he makes when food isn’t moving and he needs a drink of water. 

Last question, why not make him throw up whatever it is if it’s just sitting in his stomach? I have all of these scary ideas about what it could be. I’ve “inventoried” everything I can think of and the scary things I can think of that could seem grainy are those moisture packets, and there were a bunch in my bedroom garbage but he’d have to be able to get them out without tipping over the garbage, open it and eat it without leaving the packet wrapper anywhere. The other is i have pearl cotton embroidery floss, which he will take any opportunity to chew and could look sort of grainy because of the texture. I have the floss well out of his reach, but it has fallen off the dresser before and the idea of him swallowing string is scary. 

Any feedback is much appreciated!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Oh my gosh, I can't help you at all, but my thoughts and prayers are with you and your little one. Please keep us informed.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I have nothing to offer in advice other than to call the vet office back. It sounds very worrisome--especially when your daughter couldn't get him to respond that once. Please keep us posted.

P.S. here is an internet video of a reverse sneeze, which isn't uncommon with Havanese.
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UyBrb0Hhpk


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Sheri said:


> I have nothing to offer in advice other than to call the vet office back. It sounds very worrisome--especially when your daughter couldn't get him to respond that once. Please keep us posted.
> 
> P.S. here is an internet video of a reverse sneeze, which isn't uncommon with Havanese.
> http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UyBrb0Hhpk


I couldn't get the link to work, but thank you for the idea to look up videos! The closest I could find was to a Maltese reverse sneeze, and it does not sound like that. I did find a video someone posted of a collapsed trachea sound and it sounds exactly like that but without the honking at the end, which makes me think it isn't collapsed trachea but also not a reverse sneeze. I also assume they would have seen a collapsed trachea on the X-ray, and it wouldn't explain the digestive issues, right?

After I posted he ate one patty, played for 15 minutes or so, which was a relief, and then went outside for more diarrhea. He drank a little water but started making a weird smacking sort of sound for a second and stopped. He's been sleeping ever since. I'm due to check in with the vet in a couple of hours unless he is worse or there is a change. It's hard to tell if he's improving since he normally sleeps this time of day anyway. He's usually most active after my kids get home from school and in the evening, even when he's feeling well. He doesn't seem worse, though.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I hope your little one gets well soon.


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## siewhwee (Sep 24, 2009)

Can you take pictures or record any weird sounds or behavior that you can show the vet when you talk to them. Sometimes a picture says better what you can't describe. Hope they figure out what it is and your puppy gets better soon.


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## Henry&Kate (Mar 29, 2017)

Sending good thoughts to you all. Do let us know how he's doing.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It doessound worrisome, but you have the vets involved,so I think you are doing what you should. Kodi had an obsteuction from a Greenie when he was young (18 months or so?) and I remeber how scared I was. He had to be hospitalized for several days, but they were able to manage him medically, with IV fluids and meds, and we were able to avoid surgery. I hope your boy eventually passes whatever the problem is!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

He’s finally eating! He picked the bits of the freeze dried patty out of the kibble and then waited by the door for more, haha. I indulged him by giving him more patty broken up even smaller and mixed it in with the kibble more thoroughly than usually but he is really good at still spitting out half of the kibble. The freeze dried patties must be really delicious! 

Still terrible diarrhea so he’s taking medicine for than now. Doesn’t seem to make a difference yet but at least he’s eating. 

He even ran up the stairs once - it’s the first time I’ve seen him at full speed all week so a huge relief!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> He's finally eating! He picked the bits of the freeze dried patty out of the kibble and then waited by the door for more, haha. I indulged him by giving him more patty broken up even smaller and mixed it in with the kibble more thoroughly than usually but he is really good at still spitting out half of the kibble. The freeze dried patties must be really delicious!
> 
> Still terrible diarrhea so he's taking medicine for than now. Doesn't seem to make a difference yet but at least he's eating.
> 
> He even ran up the stairs once - it's the first time I've seen him at full speed all week so a huge relief!


That does sound positive! I sure hope he is on the mend. Please keep updating. Are you going back to the vet this next week?


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> He's finally eating! He picked the bits of the freeze dried patty out of the kibble and then waited by the door for more, haha. I indulged him by giving him more patty broken up even smaller and mixed it in with the kibble more thoroughly than usually but he is really good at still spitting out half of the kibble. The freeze dried patties must be really delicious!


This is probably obvious and you are already doing it, but just in case I'll mention it here for others. Freeze dried foods have to be rehydrated before giving to the dog so that it doesn't swell in the digestive tract. Are you soaking it before serving?

I'm glad you are seeing the vet to follow through on this diarrhea, lack of appetite, and lethargy.


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## hlang (Jan 21, 2018)

sorry to hear your little guy is not feeling his best and hoping he continues to improve throughout the day. He's only about a year old, right? still a baby.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Whenever my dog has diarrhea she has been put on a bland diet until the stool normalizes. This might help you also if you hold off on the kibble and raw patties and feed things like boiled chicken and rice, boiled lean ground beef or chicken or turkey, canned pumpkin, sweet potatoes. If your dog is not already on one, a daily probiotic is very beneficial too. I hope he feels better soon.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Sheri said:


> This is probably obvious and you are already doing it, but just in case I'll mention it here for others. Freeze dried foods have to be rehydrated before giving to the dog so that it doesn't swell in the digestive tract. Are you soaking it before serving?
> 
> I'm glad you are seeing the vet to follow through on this diarrhea, lack of appetite, and lethargy.


I'm using Stella and Chewy patties, and I do not normally soak them, I break the patties into small crumbles less than 1/4" and mix about 1/2-3/4 of a patty in with his kibble. My understanding was that the meal mixers don't have to be dehydrated, and it's just a more cost effective way of including a mixer/topper since the patties are less expensive than the official Meal Mixers. I thought the patties didn't have to be rehydrated if they drink plenty of water with their meal.

I really appreciate you bringing it up because while he's sick and not really eating and drinking as dependably it would be better to be careful. It also just dawned on me that i don't think they put water in his ex pen with him when they give him his food at daycare. Or at least they didn't the day my schedule changed and I had to pick him up early. I used to send water because he had a stacked food and water container that I sent with him. When it started to leak I took his food in a different container one day and they said they would make sure he had water, but I didn't think to ask about it every day after that. I had completely forgotten about seeing he didn't have water that day.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Molly120213 said:


> Whenever my dog has diarrhea she has been put on a bland diet until the stool normalizes. This might help you also if you hold off on the kibble and raw patties and feed things like boiled chicken and rice, boiled lean ground beef or chicken or turkey, canned pumpkin, sweet potatoes. If your dog is not already on one, a daily probiotic is very beneficial too. I hope he feels better soon.


I actually expected to be told to do this! The vet didn't say anything, but I thought about doing it anyway and hesitated. He's been on the same protein for as long as we've had him, and the same brand of food for six months. He's never had more than a treat size portion of anything other than chicken, an occasional egg, and fruit. I'm a little nervous about giving him something like rice, even though it's bland, only because he hasn't ever had it before. He does seem to have a touchy stomach with regard to some commercial treats but I didn't do a good job of keeping track of those, I just threw them away. It's one of the reasons I've been hesitant to introduce new proteins.

I'm supposed to check in again today so I'll ask about trying rice.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

He was on a probiotic, but it was from the vet’s office and I wanted to find something better than Purina when it ran out. That was a couple of months ago though. I read a thread on it a while ago and just never got around to ordering one. I’m going to order it now but i’ll wait to start it it until he’s better. Hopefully it will lessen the chances of future problems!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

He seems much better today, no more diarrhea since yesterday afternoon. This sounds weird, but his poop seems skinny, for lack of a better word. It’s like half the width of his normal poop, and he’s been eating normally since Saturday night now. I was only supposed to take him in to the vet today for follow up if he still had diarrhea, and he doesn’t, and he’s back to his usual self. I’m assuming it’s just extra firm because of the diarrhea medicine, but I’m wondering if a partial obstruction could cause “skinny” poop and if I should follow up with a call just in case?


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

I would be inclined to follow up with a call. Sometimes Willow's poop is skinny if she has pooped more than usual. Maybe because she didn't have a lot of poop built up inside yet. She tends to do that when I share my apple with her. I know the apple makes her poop a little more but it's not like diarrhea. I'm so glad that you are seeing improvement!


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## hlang (Jan 21, 2018)

Glad to hear he is doing better today and hoping to hear your baby continues getting well. Wouldn't it be nice to have a vet in the family for times like this? I was so blessed to have an RN for a mom so I went to her with my human kids any time I wasn't sure, especially when they were too little to tell me what they were feeling. Wish I had that option with my fur kids. Maybe I should start talking to my grand daughters about career choices in vet medicine?


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> He seems much better today, no more diarrhea since yesterday afternoon. This sounds weird, but his poop seems skinny, for lack of a better word. It's like half the width of his normal poop, and he's been eating normally since Saturday night now. I was only supposed to take him in to the vet today for follow up if he still had diarrhea, and he doesn't, and he's back to his usual self. I'm assuming it's just extra firm because of the diarrhea medicine, but I'm wondering if a partial obstruction could cause "skinny" poop and if I should follow up with a call just in case?


I know in humans diarrhea or poop as you described can sometimes be due to a partial obstruction. Plus there would be vomiting. If there was an obstruction it would be seen on an x-ray. Antidiarrheal medication wouldn't be a good idea for any obstruction. Hope your little guy is feeling better soon!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> He seems much better today, no more diarrhea since yesterday afternoon. This sounds weird, but his poop seems skinny, for lack of a better word. It's like half the width of his normal poop, and he's been eating normally since Saturday night now. I was only supposed to take him in to the vet today for follow up if he still had diarrhea, and he doesn't, and he's back to his usual self. I'm assuming it's just extra firm because of the diarrhea medicine, but I'm wondering if a partial obstruction could cause "skinny" poop and if I should follow up with a call just in case?


I know in humans diarrhea or poop as you described can sometimes be due to a partial obstruction. Plus there would be vomiting. If there was an obstruction it would be seen on an x-ray. Antidiarrheal medication wouldn't be a good idea for any obstruction. Hope your little guy is feeling better soon!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Heather's said:


> I know in humans diarrhea or poop as you described can sometimes be due to a partial obstruction. Plus there would be vomiting. If there was an obstruction it would be seen on an x-ray. Antidiarrheal medication wouldn't be a good idea for any obstruction. Hope your little guy is feeling better soon!


This is exactly why I was wondering. Also, in humans partial obstruction can cause intermittent diarrhea. Today he had firm poop and then diarrhea afterwards, but it was after the vet closed and he still seems better overall so I'm going to call in the morning.

The vet did show me a spot on his X-ray that he said is a pattern they look for in obstruction. He said when it requires surgery it's usually much, much bigger. He just never said outright that there was a partial obstruction so I interpreted that as, "this could potentially be a problem, let's see how this treatment goes."

I'm not convinced it's completely resolved yet, but he's playing more, he isn't lethargic, and he's eating and drinking again, so I feel better, too!


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

The lethargy is the most frightening thing. Glad that has passed. I know exactly how you are feeling now. So sorry there are health issues with your adorable pup. 

Kosmo really does do better with probiotics and too much Stella and Chewy patty makes his poo runny, to throw in my 2 cents. He firmed up on the Merrick kibble with just a little raw. Raw Rev.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

How is the little guy doing today? Hope all is still looking positive.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Marni said:


> Kosmo really does do better with probiotics and too much Stella and Chewy patty makes his poo runny, to throw in my 2 cents. He firmed up on the Merrick kibble with just a little raw. Raw Rev.


When we brought him home his poop was about as soft as you can get without actually being runny. I didn't know any different, though. I actually transitioned him to Merrick puppy formula and his poop firmed up but it's never been as hard as some of the dog poop I see. I moved to Stella and Chewy around 5-6 months for the frozen raw, but it just didn't work for me. I hated dealing with the frozen patties, especially transporting them, and the freeze dried patties are too expensive for me to justify for complete meals. I transitioned him to Stella and Chewy kibble as soon as I saw it and started mixing in the freeze dried patties because he LOVES them and he eats the kibble better. His poop was the same as the Merrick, but it wasn't as smelly so I was happy with the change.

I've suspected for a while that he has a mild food sensitivity but I can't seem to narrow down what it is. I wish I would have kept track of the store bought treats that gave him diarrhea because there have been a lot, and I wouldn't be surprised if they share a common ingredient.

I don't think food caused this incident, but it has prompted me to explore his diet because it probably contributed, and I didn't like giving unsure answers when the vet was asking me about it.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Just read this thread. Hoping things are continuing to improve for your sweet babe.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*food*



EvaE1izabeth said:


> When we brought him home his poop was about as soft as you can get without actually being runny. I didn't know any different, though. I actually transitioned him to Merrick puppy formula and his poop firmed up but it's never been as hard as some of the dog poop I see. I moved to Stella and Chewy around 5-6 months for the frozen raw, but it just didn't work for me. I hated dealing with the frozen patties, especially transporting them, and the freeze dried patties are too expensive for me to justify for complete meals. I transitioned him to Stella and Chewy kibble as soon as I saw it and started mixing in the freeze dried patties because he LOVES them and he eats the kibble better. His poop was the same as the Merrick, but it wasn't as smelly so I was happy with the change.


Perry gets stella and chewy freeze dried in the morning and Fromm kibble in the afternoon. The combination I think is a good balance in cost and composition.


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

I use pinches of Stella and Chewy freeze dried patties:smile2: as treats. We swap it for paper as well.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Thank you so much everyone! A full day of completely normal poop now! Isn’t it amazing how significant poop can be? I don’t think I ever wrote the word “poop” in my life before we brought home puppy! 

I’m going to give him a little more time to recover and then I’m going to work on investigating whether or not he has any food sensitivities and see if we should make any changes. 

Since I’ve being extra careful the last couple of days by wetting the patties to mix with the kibble, he’s been licking the bowl clean. He’s always tried to pick out every last bit of patty and doesn’t care as much about the kibble, and it’s so cute to see how he gobbles it up. I’m not sure I’ll be able to stop wetting it now!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*wetting the food*



EvaE1izabeth said:


> Thank you so much everyone! A full day of completely normal poop now! Isn't it amazing how significant poop can be? I don't think I ever wrote the word "poop" in my life before we brought home puppy!
> 
> I'm going to give him a little more time to recover and then I'm going to work on investigating whether or not he has any food sensitivities and see if we should make any changes.
> 
> Since I've being extra careful the last couple of days by wetting the patties to mix with the kibble, he's been licking the bowl clean. He's always tried to pick out every last bit of patty and doesn't care as much about the kibble, and it's so cute to see how he gobbles it up. I'm not sure I'll be able to stop wetting it now!


I don't think you need to stop wetting it (unless it's not convenient for you to feed that way). I wet both Perry's stella and chewy patties and his kibble. I don't mix the two together - he gets patties in the morning and kibble in the evening. I was feeling like he wasn't drinking enough so I decided that making his food really wet was the solution. It's funny though - with his last food, he wasn't crazy about the wet - he'd try to cover it up if there was a rug or towel nearby (like his crate blanket) - but with the new foods he slurps it right up and licks the bowl for both the patties and the kibble.

The patties are his favorite - I prep them when I get up and then feed him in his crate when I leave the house - and this morning he sat and stared at me when I was watching the news, and when I turned off the TV he barked at me and then did some circles because I was too slow to get up to put him and his food in his crate . The added bonus is that he hates his crate less.

I was thinking of changing his kibble, but he seems to be doing well on the Fromm (even though it's not a 5 star on petfoodadvisor) that I might keep it in combo with the stella/ chewy patties.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Thank you so much everyone! A full day of completely normal poop now! Isn't it amazing how significant poop can be? I don't think I ever wrote the word "poop" in my life before we brought home puppy!


Hip HIp Hooray for good poop! :laugh2:


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## Jeanniek (Mar 20, 2018)

Eva, I am so glad your puppy is feeling better. How scary it is going through that! I would also think it would be worrisome because you are not sure what started this episode. I sure hope your puppy continues to do well and that something like this never happens again.


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