# I feel awful!!!



## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

I am just shaking! I did all the wrong things! First of all let me tell you how bad Lulu is. She is very hard to groom. She bites the comb/ brush and at me. She squirms, flips over and is impossible to hold. She screams when I hardly comb her. Well, she is dumping and I decided I was going to get some of the mats out. By the time I was done (not finished, just DONE) My body was shaking and I was yelling at her. I EVEN HIT HER LIGHTLY! 
Now she is going to hate me. I tried the Ceasar thing but she just wouldn't stop. 
I know they sense our anger, how could she not, I'm even crying from frustration. When I put her down I just ignored her and still am.
Vinny NEVER does any of this nonsense. 
I don't deserve her.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

Awww~ I am so sorry you are having a rough time with her. I have a dog that sounds just like her during grooming. Brushing her out and bathing her used to be a _complete _nightmare, and like you....I didn't "like" her when I was done. My solution was to cut her in a short puppy cut and now we are both happier. Her brush outs are quick and easy, so is her bath and blowdry~
I think you should go pick up Lulu, sit on the couch and give her a big hug~ you both deserve it!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Oh no don't say that! :grouphug: Quite obviously she does not realize you are caring for her by caring for her coat. In my opinion she sounds like a human baby who throws a tantrum when they don't get their way. It's good you took a break as you don't want to stress the two of you out, but they do need to know what we expect. Biting you and the combs is her way of telling you to back off and let her be. Don't give up, because grooming is a part of ours/their life - whether in a puppy clip or not to keep them matt free.

Keep perservering and always keep in mind what you want to achieve - you will get there. :hug:


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Thanks you two, for the support. I really need that right now. I can't believe I let this little 6 lb dog get the best of me. I love her so much.....


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Awww, a HUGE hug to you! They do love to pull on our heartstrings. Hugs to you.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh, don't beat yourself up over it. Lulu will forgive you. I just read a joke the other day that fits this situation:


> Put your dog and your wife in the trunk of your car for an hour.
> When you open the trunk, which one is really glad to see you?


Point being, she'll still love you. Dogs are very forgiving of their imperfect human companions. (Don't try putting her in the trunk to prove it. :laugh

You're probably going to need to start from scratch in grooming her, but it will be easier if you can do it when she is worn out (maybe late evening before bed) and with treats for her and plenty of patience for you. Just do a little at a time and keep it easy on both of you.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Thanks Kim, I really respect your advice!


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## havaluv (Oct 15, 2007)

Oh, yes, I agree with Kimberly. Lulu will forgive you. 

Ollie used to do this behaviour too (comb biting, flipping over etc) I don't honestly know why he stopped, but now he is pretty good about it. He's blowing coat too, I think, because suddenly he gets these huge mats EVERY day. It takes so long to get them out, I know it hurts him and it frustrates me. I guess, I just persevered and now he has resigned himself to submit to it. Lulu probably will too, but it may take a while. 

I think Katie may have a point. A puppy cut would probablly relieve some tension for both of you. It will grow back and in the meantime, you can brush Lulu and groom her pain free so she will start to associate grooming with pleasant attention. Come to think of it, I cut Ollie's hair when he had scratched a bunch of his hair off, and I wanted him to at least look even. I still brushed him almost every day because I wanted him to get used to it. So that is probably the reason he is so much better now. 

And yes, do it when she is pooped out from playing and is calm. That makes a huge difference!

:hug: to you and Lulu too. I know it's frustrating, but it WILL pass! :hug:


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Awww - sounds like you need a hug and LuLu needs a grooming time out. I have to laugh a bit. My Pomeranian is the GROUCHIEST dog alive and if I had a nickel for every argument we've had over these last 15 years I'd be a rich woman. He still wants to snuggle every night, so whatever we disagree on is gone by night-night time. Now if only I could convince him to lie vertically, leaving room for my feet...


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

I wouldn't beat yourself up about it too much. Just take it as a lesson learned. For that very reason I have Bogart and Brando both with puppy cuts. It's too painful on all 3 of us when the mats need to be brushed out. Just save yourself the headache and heartache and get a puppy cut.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

awww Carole:hug: Lulu sounds just like Jasper. But with persistence she will let you brush her. We have all wrestled with our dogs from time to time (at least I have) The one thing that really helped me with Jasper was using a rotating toothed comb instead of a brush. It works through the mats easier and for some reason he is just less threatened by it . He still hates me to work on his front paws but the rest he endures. Now nails that is another story-- there is only one person who can do Jasper's nails --- I have tried to see what he does-- but three vet techs can't do little Jasper. Lulu will come around.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Looks like you have received lots of good advice. Just take a break when things get irritating to you....heck I do that with my kids! A few deep breaths,a step outside,anything to relax you. :thumb:


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Don't beat yourself up. It's easy to get stressed out under the circumstances you described.

I give my dogs liver treats only when I'm bathing and brushing them.Its a special treat for them and really helps.

Chico is easy to groom, but Cali protests a bit. She has a hugely thick cottony coat.

I finally gave up and got Cali a puppy cut. It is so cute, we all love it. If I could, I'd post some pictures, but I'm a computer klutz. Maybe one of my kids can help me later.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I bet she's already given you kisses.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Carole, you are such a sweet, caring person that I know little Lulu is in great care. You have nothing to worry about as far as what her feelings are. Dogs live in the moment. They don't have most of the human emotions we have, such as resentment, holding a grudge, making you feel badly, etc.... ((((hugs)))) We've all had these moments either with our kids or pups and it's normal to feel badly afterwards, but you'll be o.k. and so will Lulu.

I also recommend you get her either shaven, or cut short. It's just NOT worth the torment you both go through. Trust me! You will feel soooooo relieved afterwards and grooming sessions will become a pleasant time for both of you. Treats always help, but when she's having a fit like that, they dont' do a thing. Please consider a short cut and see how that goes for you.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Carole,
I know what you mean.. Beamer and I got into a huge fight lastnight while I was 'trying' to brush him.. lol.. Problem is, I have a bunch of different dog houses all over the house, so its soo easy for him to hide from me.. 
It actulaly turned out pretty funny, everytime I'd grab him, he would let me brush for about 5 seconds then fight me and jump off of me then run to his white stuffed dog and hump it.. lol He is insane! 

Ryan


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## Suuske747 (May 9, 2007)

Please don't worry, I think most of us have been in a "fight" with their dog at least once....sometimes it just gets the better of you, you just don't understand how your easy going furkid all of a sudden seems to be so different.... 
I had it once when I tried to clip Sierra's nails.... Sierra had 2 bad experiences with me clipping her nails (she twitched/pulled away and I clipped wrongly, it bled) So she was determined that I would never clip her nails again.... I tried all kind of treats...but she would just stiffen up and ignore it...
I just couldn't believe how determined she was, she was simply scared of the pain....
It was a terrible ordeal, I eventually had her on her back, I was "sitting on top" wrestling with her, holding her down, holding my hand over her snout, telling her "NO", trying to clip her nails....she was snarling at me and fighting me with all her strength...my gosh....so much strength in a small body....
Eventually I was trembling so bad, I was so upset and shaken, I couldn't believe my dog.....
I stopped trying to clip her nails...she then calm down, then I let her go, ignored her for a long time...she ignored me for about 30 mins and then she jumped on my lap and slept..... she was exhausted too hahahaha! I just cried.... She was my girl and she is very easy going....and I just couldn't do that to her.... I couldn't help her feel comfortable.....clippers to her meant pain...

Then when I decided I was not going to have that fight anymore...so next time I asked the vet.... well, it took 3 adults to hold her so the vet could clip her nails and she was howling like a cow...I was devastated..... 
So next time this is ever necessary I want her under a kind of sedation....I am not having my little girl go through such an ordeal again...
I can't take away her fright for pain...I've tried all, believe me....

It's not worth the fight.... not worth the tears......

Sierra still loves me, even after that.... so don't worry, Carole, your Lulu will forgive you, and love you like always!!

You've been given some good advice..... 
If it really that bad, you've tried it all...and find a way around it, makes both your lives easier!!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Lulu still loves you……….All of us have had some trying times with our furry friends. A few months ago I spent over 3 hours, bathing and removing matts from Smarty. She just would not let me get to some of them. I was finally determined that an 11 pound dog was not going to win. By the time we finished we were both give out and ready for bed. I went straight to the shower to get rid of all the dog hair and she was asleep on my pillow when I came to bed. It was a great learning experience for both of us. I will never let her coat go that long without brushing and she may turn around a little but now puts up very little fuss.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Ryan, you are a riot!!! Thanks for the laugh.

Suuske, you made me laugh too. I can just picture you on top of her trying to hold her down.

I will take everyones good advice. I have to tell you though just how nutty I am. This morning I took her on a walk down the street but I was carrying her. I took my little maltese comb because it is so small and I can sneak it under her belly and try to get some small mats while she is distracted looking around the neighborhood. OH NO, you can't fool Lulu. Then when we came home we started our fight. I was even singing to her (Lulu has a little lamb, etc) OH NO.
Tonight or tomorrow night I will get her good and tired (she can do the walking) and then I'll try to slip in a little grooming.
xxoox


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Awww, you've already been given great advice so you don't need more. I just want to give you a :hug:


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Carole,

I know the grooming can be very difficult, there is light at the end of the tunnel…after they go though the terrible blowing coat stage, it is much better.

Here are some things that helped us survive…. I am on Havanese dog # 2 so I am learning from both as I go, and I do all the grooming on both dogs.

Treats and loving during grooming time. My dogs get a treat just be get groomed, before we start. 

A place where you are comfortable and the dog is comfortable (for us it happened to be kitchen counter by a window). 

A rotating comb and pin brush, everyone has their own grooming tools. You have to decide what works best on your dog. 

Some of the mats had to be cut out; it was easier than brushing them out (on the dogs that are not show dogs this is ok).

I had to get really serious with dog #2 as she is a show dog (cutting out mats not an option), so I am trying all of the above and a grooming table and arm to help hold the dog in place.

My husband had to be very strong willed with Casper, he hated to be groomed and now he lies down and I ask him to “show me his tummy” and he does and lets me groom him on his stomach.

I think what I am trying to say is be strong and let Lulu know who is the Boss during grooming time, use the right grooming tools, give treat and loves, and make grooming time a bonding time with you and your dog.

I hope this helps you, grooming my two has been the biggest challenge for me so far, so I like to be able to share my experiences and hopefully it might help you. 

My two dogs now fight over who gets brushed first in the morning, instead of running when I say the words.

We send you lots of :hug::hug::kiss::kiss: knowing how difficult it can be.


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## EstrellaVila (Nov 30, 2007)

Lots of treats and kisses will help Lulu. Tito HATES baths, it drives me nuts and I get quite cranky with him for that. You just have to keep trying and eventually they will love it or just tolerate it but will cooperate. I learned I need to be in the tub with him to make baths "work", you will find something that will work for your baby, just keep trying. Everyone gave great advice, I cannot think of more to add. Just keep trying and take it one day at a time and try to muster up that patience!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

You need some help. It's much easier when two people can work on a difficult one. If you were closer I'd invite you to bring her over and Pam and I could help. I don't think it's the kind of thing that can be explained in writing. The holder is really important. I can easily see how for some dogs it would be nearly impossible for one person to dematt. Not only do you have to be calm and assertive and all that but you also have to have perfect timing in holding and releasing.


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## Miss Paige (Apr 4, 2008)

*I Feel Awful*

Carole:

Sounds like you have gotten lots of really good advice-so will just send you hugs. It's hard to groom a dog that does not want to be groomed-Miss Paige is pretty good most of the time-just don't mess with those front feet or the belly. I try to give her a shower every other week then put her on a table where I have lots of combs-brushes-blow dryer & mat removal spray waiting. We get all the coat done but the front feet. She just hates to have anyone mess with them. I take her to a really great groomer once a month for the nails & to have her pads trimmed. And if I don't get around to working with her then she goes to the groomer twice a month.

Right now I am so very mad at my vet-he shaved her backside this week before I could tell him not to trim anything-thank goodness he did not shave the legs just a really bad sanity trim-now I have to hope it all grows back by next year. Which according to my groomer it will.

Pat


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Carole, don't forget about the special treats for yourself - I'd say before you start, between rounds, and an extra few when you're done should do it!


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

Ok, I have no support....just do what I do.....TAKE THEM TO THE GROOMER!:biggrin1:


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## janelle (Nov 10, 2007)

*Grooming Horror*

I recently had a very bad experience with a local Pet store groomer and the manager. I had been taking Felipe to a particular groomer. I called the groomer after I did not receive a call within four hours to pick-up my baby.
The groomer stated that Felipe was to badly matted that she would have to
shave him down to the skin. I told her to stop the grooming process that I would be there in a few minutes. I arrived and the manager came over and
accused me of not taking proper care of my dog since he was so matted.
He stated it was cruel and inhumane to try and get the matts out.
I brush and comb him in the morning and the evening when I get home from
work. He is also blowing his coat. I was furious and took my baby and left.
I went home and trimmed him myself and was able to get out the matts that
appeared after the groomer had bathed him. I will continue to care for my
boy myself after this experience. I think I did a good job grooming him. I did get the number of the corporate people to complain, but I have decided it is not worth my time to do so.


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## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

Janelle--

That's why I don't take Molly to a groomer any longer.

She may not have the most beautiful Hav coat, and she gets really, really put-out when I comb her or bather her, but I know I'm not hurting her...


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Thanks again everyone. I am going to look for one of those rotating brushes. Tom, you are so right about holding her. When I finally get the mat in my hand and get the comg positioned to try to carefully take the mat out she has done 3 summersalts and two back flips. 
Janelle, That groomer was terrible. They have no idea how fast they mat up when they are dumping. The last time I had her groomed was about 2 months ago. I said to not cut the face hair. They trimmed the top of the muzzle all the way down. I could also tell Lulu was traumatized (duh, I wonder why, could it be Lulu's fault??? lol). I decided to groom her myself after that. I really want my havanese to look like havanese. I will have more patience and more treats and sing more rock-a-bye Lulu.
xxoox


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## Miss Paige (Apr 4, 2008)

*I Feel Awful*

I have to say after reading the posts about the groomers I am so very lucky-I have a great groomer that just happens to own Havs herself and so she is really careful how she deals with both my "kids". Miss Paige is still in the long coat and Rommy has the short curly coat that comes from the bishon family tree even though he is 100% Havanese and thank goodness my groomer has worked with both types of coat. She is really great working with Paige and once I finally get her convinced that Rommy does not need shaved every grooming the coats look wonderful. And my other groomer has listened to how I want the coats cared for so she is really great grooming them.

Pat


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

I feel your pain.

Seems lately like little Miss Posh is getting quite an attitude when it comes to grooming.

She had been really easy to groom, lying so still for me, so patient. Now she is blowing coat and it takes a bit longer to tackle all the mats, and she's more comfortable with me and figuring out this whole "who's the boss thing," and she can make me so mad as she wiggles and squirms to keep me from getting in certain areas!

The other night I was so mad I had to just put her down and take a break because I was gritting my teeth and wanting to "force" her to lie still. 

Tonight she had a sticker on the bottom of her foot from a piece of fruit, or something and she was so not letting me get it off-biting, squirming, whatever. I just kept at it, trying to be calm, and afterwards massaged her feet in between her toes for a while, just to do something nice but something i wanted to do!!!

You are a good Mommy, we just all have our moments as do these little fur babies.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

We don't use treats or baby talk-just focus on the job at hand. Quiet is better for the dog. Anything else is just a distraction and shortens us getting to the goal. 

Havanese are really quick at getting up. They can either pull one front leg under them or one back leg and get up in the blink of an eye. The two lower legs have to stay under the dog on the table. I hold with each hand above the elbow around the upper arm. Pretty soon I can move to just holding one finger on top of the lower shoulder blade to keep the dog from pulling it's lower leg under. 

How they are held is the most important part. The holder can NOT use any pressure other than just enough to counter any pressure that the dog uses and it must IMMEDIATELY be released the INSTANT the dog relaxes. Continuing to put pressure just makes the dog panic. They learn fast with correct teaching and will quickly learn that when they relax the handler relaxes. Once they learn that they have no choice but to lay on their side and relax they accept it. Even if the handler does not have endless patience the dog (or horse) cannot sense it. 

I've never seen a Havanese that we couldn't get to calmly accept grooming, clipping nails, cleaning teeth, etc. They don't have to like it but do have to calmly accept it. We have learned this timing and manner without having to think about it through decades of training horses and dogs and of course our own pack. It's hard to explain by talking about it.

I will add that Pam can do any of this by herself but it's a lot easier with the two of us.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Tom,
Thanks for the mental picture. I'll see if my DH can help me next time. I really don't want to get her a puppy cut unless I get desperate, lol.
xxoox


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