# Best time to spay?



## Kalico (Jan 11, 2012)

Hi all, I have some leeway as per my contract for Jasmine regarding when to spay. She is nearing six months old now. My vet is giving me grief about doing it but I wanted to ask everyone's opinion here. He says I should do it before the first heat. When should I expect that? What is everyone's opinion about timing of spay?
Thank you!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

You might want to check out the thread on early neuter. There are a lot of good arguments for waiting until after their first birthday, even if that means putting up with their first heat cycle. (just make sure you are REALLY up to keeping her safe from "the boys")

Females, in particular, are much more prone to spay incontinence if neutered before their first heat. I wouldn't be willing to take a chance on that, just to avoid the trouble of the first heat.


----------



## Tuss (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm having the same debate right now with my little girl. Isn't there an increased risk of cancer if they have even one heat? My vet recommended 6 months; breeder said she shouldn't have a heat until 9 months or so, so i'm thinking of waiting until she's about 8 months as a compromise in the middle. I thought waiting was less critical for small dogs because it's mostly a joint/bone issue in larger breeds? Decisions decisions.


----------



## nlb (Feb 26, 2012)

I am taking Cassie tomorrow to get fixed. I wish I heard about the incontinence issue before I made the appointment. I'm so nervous about all the negative things I've already read about here!


----------



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I had Tillie spayed at 8 months, but most people say to wait till after the first heat...?


----------



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

My vet recommended waiting. I know we have a bunch of advocates here on the forum who believe in waiting. Maddie needs to get spayed but I think it will be this summer. She will be 2 and will have had three cycles. Its funny with two girls they both come in heat at the same. I can always tell because they get a bit lazy and hump each other. I bought diapers for them but never had to use them. Both clean themselves really good. I add a sheet on top of my bed spread . I haven't had to deal with male dogs coming around. I did notice they had to pee more and had a few accidents . The whole thing is not that big of deal IMO . I think Its going to be hard keeping Maddie from running, jumping and playing while she is healing.


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I waited until she was fully grown and had her first heat. It really depends on your situation, I think..If you can put up with the heat and you aren't around any un neutered boys, I think waiting is better.

Pros and cons, as with everything in life, Their chances of breast cancer goes up a smidgen, but by waiting til' they are fully grown you are letting their hormones assist in crucial bone and organ development, so their chances of arthritis, chrondodysplasia, hip dysplasia 'could' go down, its no guarantee either way that they won't get cancer or a bone disorder no matter what you choose, but if she is around intact boys, don't risk it.

I've heard stories of dogs jumping fences to get to fertile girls and you can't let them out of your sight for one minute, not even to pee in the yard by themselves, boys can smell a bitch in heat a mile away..

And the mess, there is the mess. You have to give lots of sink baths and make a special bedding with a vinyl bottom so nothing gets through to your carpets/ furniture, bed, etc. there is quite a bit of work involved taking care of a girl in heat,

And I should add her recovery was much harder than it would've been at 6 months, she was in a lot of pain and didn't bounce back in a few days like so many of the little puppies do, it took a good week for her to come back to normal, so weigh all pros and cons

Kara


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tuss said:


> I'm having the same debate right now with my little girl. Isn't there an increased risk of cancer if they have even one heat? My vet recommended 6 months; breeder said she shouldn't have a heat until 9 months or so, so i'm thinking of waiting until she's about 8 months as a compromise in the middle. I thought waiting was less critical for small dogs because it's mostly a joint/bone issue in larger breeds? Decisions decisions.


There is a slightly increased risk of mammary cancer in females spayed late, but this goes up with each successive heat, so spaying after the first heat increases it only a tiny bit. (and the rate is low anyway) But there is another type of cancer, and I can't remember which right now, where the chances are LESS if the dog is spayed after the first heat. So it's a pick-your-poison type of thing. (neither is a particularly high-incidence cancer, however)

As far as joints and bones are concerned, while it is even more important with big dogs, spay/neuter before maturity leads to more incidence of pattelar luxation, cruciate ligament tears and bone cancer. The first two of these are not uncommon in Havanese and other small dogs. Not sure of the bone cancer statistics in Havs and other small breeds... it's a big issue in a number of medium sized breeds, however. There is also a greater incidence of hip dysplasia, though this is not typically debilitating in little dogs.

The highest incidence problem with early spay, and it's REALLY high... something like 10%, is spay incontinence. That's something _I_ wouldn't want to have to deal with for the entire life of my pet.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

nlb said:


> I am taking Cassie tomorrow to get fixed. I wish I heard about the incontinence issue before I made the appointment. I'm so nervous about all the negative things I've already read about here!


You can always cancel...


----------



## Kalico (Jan 11, 2012)

Thanks, everyone, I really appreciate the answers and different views. I really fear the spay incontinence. I can't imagine anything worse (well, I can, but still). Has anyone had to deal with that?


----------



## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

I have heard of one case here. Irish setter girl was spayed when nine months old and after that she cannot really control peeing especially if she is excited. Her people use girl panties and diapers. Not all the time, but on daily basis (especially during the night). 
It is hard to repair, but not impossible (ti cost A LOT). During spay surgery they have to manipulate the bladder as well. Sometimes too much manipulation damages bladder sphincter (circular muscle that closes the uraetra) and the conseqence is that dog cannot feel and control pee going out.


----------



## Kalico (Jan 11, 2012)

rokipiki said:


> I have heard of one case here. Irish setter girl was spayed when nine months old and after that she cannot really control peeing especially if she is excited. Her people use girl panties and diapers. Not all the time, but on daily basis (especially during the night).
> It is hard to repair, but not impossible (ti cost A LOT). During spay surgery they have to manipulate the bladder as well. Sometimes too much manipulation damages bladder sphincter (circular muscle that closes the uraetra) and the conseqence is that dog cannot feel and control pee going out.


Oh gosh. And to me, a 10% chance of this happening seems high, and unacceptable risk (or is it 20%?). Maybe I just shouldn't spay?? It's in my contract but maybe I could work it out with the breeder. Not sure what to do. I've only ever had boy dogs before and they are relatively easy in this area, or at least that's the way it seemed to me.


----------



## nlb (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, as fate would have it....first thing this morning I let her outside to potty, but of course she didn't poop like she normally would have because I couldn't feed her. She tried to eat a leaf but I thought I got it away from her. Today also was wet outside. So, I brought her to the vet. The vet said she wanted her to poop before I brought her in, but I didn't mention it. Said my goodbyes and.....just got a call that the vet had to cancel the surgery because Cassie threw up grass and had water in her stomach after they knocked her out and were just about to cut! I don't know how she got any real amount of water off the grass, but she must have licked the ground somewhere that I didn't see. I still have to pay for the anesthetic...Good omen? Hmmm?:brick: weird how things work out! Lesson learned...don't let them outside, or out of sight before surgery!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kalico said:


> Oh gosh. And to me, a 10% chance of this happening seems high, and unacceptable risk (or is it 20%?). Maybe I just shouldn't spay?? It's in my contract but maybe I could work it out with the breeder. Not sure what to do. I've only ever had boy dogs before and they are relatively easy in this area, or at least that's the way it seemed to me.


From what I've read, the risk of spay incontinence goes way down after they have had one heat. And the risk of other problems from NOT being spayed goes up. There are a LOT of good reasons to spay... just not too early.

Also, if I had a girl, I'd try very hard to find a vet who would do an ovarectomy rather than the more common hysterectomy. (which removes both the ovaries AND the uterus) The ovarectomy is a newer procedure, but the recovery time is much faster, and the benefits are the same.


----------



## nlb (Feb 26, 2012)

Had my baby spayed a few days ago. I'm happy to report that she is doing great! No problems with peeing, or pooping, and she actually has improved her potty training! She has regular stitches and I cut the foot part of a sock and slipped it over her incision site. It works very well. She doesn't seem in pain at all. what a relief! Only problem is she has a piece of tape stuck to her tummy that I'm having trouble getting unstuck without hurting her.


----------



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Yay! glad to hear Cassie is doing so well!!


----------



## nlb (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks Tammy! I finally was able to get the tape off her last night.


----------

