# Leash training that isn't overly restrictive



## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

Eille is 5.5 months old and loves everyone - but people more. She is 90% paper/outside potty trained, comes to her name and is quite responsive to me until she experiences intense stimulation such as being outside in the street.

I live in NYC in an apartment building. Therefore, most of our walks take place on city blocks. Some of these blocks are crowded with people, while others are on streets that are fairly quiet. It is also necessary to cross streets - some busy and potentially dangerous, some not busy and safe as long as you "follow the rules of the road".

At this point I am using a Puppia harness and a 4 ft. leash.

I understand the importance of being able to have your dog walk at YOUR pace and stay right next to you and not pull in any direction. From my perspective, there are times this is necessary such as crossing streets or walking on a crowded street.

My concern is that the message I've gotten from trainers is that I should always have her walking with this kind of discipline. She is a dog - she is a curious dog. I don't want to discipline her very nature and her charm right out of her.

I would like to find a way to let her know that "this time" it's ok to wander and sniff and I will follow her lead and let her explore. 

And also, I want to let her know that "this time" you have to stay right with me and walk by my side on a short leash.

I know I need to be in charge but I don't want to take the "dog" out of the "dog" to accomplish this.

The problem is that I've no back yard and limited park access. So essentially, these rules would be in force, or not, on similar streets and I don't know how to convey it.

I live on a steep hill. The pulling is particularly bad when going down the hill. I have a bad knee and really can't run with her at the frenetic pace she would probably enjoy running. I also have a large house and she can run frenetically throughout the house, and does so.

I apologize for the length of this post but I was trying to make the situation as clear as possible.

Suggestions greatly appreciated.

Louise


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Louise
A harness actually promotes pulling.

If you want to train her to walk near you, and also allow her to explore, I would consider a martingale leash. I use this with Posh and sometimes when i want more control I tighten up and give her the "heal" command. When I am allowing her more freedom I just loosen up on the leash and allow her to explore. The exploring is done, however, after we've had a good half hour walk of "business" walking where she is not allowed to sniff or pee, this I do, to stimulate not only her limbs but her brain.

You can get a martingale leash/collar combo like I have for Posh here:
www.allhoundsapparel.com I ordered the 3/4" martingale leash/collar combo.


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## Hav a lot of pets (Apr 4, 2008)

Louise,

We are very specific about leash time. We have a leash that has a rubber handle that is adjustable. You can move it up and down the leash to get the level of control you desire. We use a very short leash (slide the handle down close to the dog) when we mean business, and our dog understands the difference. If the leash is short, every move the dog makes gets an immediate tug from your hand making training much easier.

When it is OK to let the dog sniff and wander, we lengthen the leash and give the command "You're free". Of course, the dog is still on the leash so it is a form of freedom. Our dog immediately starts following scents, looking for squirrels, and bouncing while he walks. It is a very different gait when short-leashed and "free".

Whatever works for you, is how you need to train. NYC is very different. Some dogs never feel safe with that much traffic, people, and noise around. Some are OK. As a child, I spent my summers in NYC so I understand the intimidation at times and complete comfort at others. You might need to plan your path for the best walk for both of you.
Karen


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I think they are quite smart and learn the difference between words and signals. Like others have mentioned here, I use words with Tucker. For general meandering, non specific walking I use "Let's go," and "Stay close" if he pulls trying to get further away. If he's pulling (as he was learning the words,) I'd give a little tug, say his name and "stay close", then when he'd look back and come closer I'd give him praise or a treat.

For serious, formal walking, I use "Heel" and he has to stay at my side and sit when I stop. We haven't worked on this one much yet, but it's started.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Being a New Yorker as well, I think you'll see that eventually Eille will learn the city life. Kubrick used to be a torment when a puppy and I had to really work at him to walk properly. Now, it's instinct. When we're in a crowded place, he will instinctually walk close to me, if it's not crowded, he gets to explore more. Also at around 5.5 or 6 months I switched him to a collar as the harness really was giving him the freedom to pull more (like Amy said). I taught him not to pull using it. Every time he would pull, we would stop. He learned that pulling=stop and loose leash=walk. Also, find a non-busy street to train her in. The busy streets are impossible to get any training done, as you'll just be in the way (I should know - I live on an Avenue!). I don't really have any commands for "go free" or "stay close," though I probably should, but Kubrick really does pick up on my hand stress (how closely I'm holding the leash) and knows when I want him close or not. He's not the perfect walking dog, mind you, but I would say that 95% of the time, he's very good. Also, he knows, as soon as we hit the park (Central Park), he's free to explore. And he loves it!


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## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

Where did you get his leash? It sounds much easier than trying to wrap one around your hand!

Also, do you use a collar (I was afraid I would literally choke her) or a harness?

Thanks again

Louise


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

louise said:


> Where did you get his leash? It sounds much easier than trying to wrap one around your hand!
> 
> Also, do you use a collar (I was afraid I would literally choke her) or a harness?
> 
> ...


This is why I suggested the martingale. It will not choke your dog as it sits higher on their heads right behind their ears when you are walking them vs. a collar that sits down low on their neck.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I think my dogs just know. I think the city is a unique situation but they figure it out. Mine definitely know the difference between obedience heel v. being out for a walk. Usually a different lead, different scenery, different command. You may want to put her in an obedience class to learn proper heeling. In fact, my dog that has scored the highest on heeling, is the worst dog who pulls when we are out for a walk so she definitely knows the difference <BG>

Amanda


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I think they get a bit instinctive in crowds and do tend to stay a bit closer, I noticed when we were in NYC she did say closer to my side than she would on on our usual suburban neighborhood walks.

I do use the Puppia Harness, this ONE., out the 6-7 harnesses I own, this one seems to have better control for some reason. The martingale didn't work for her not choking, but maybe that was my mistake? IDK.

But anyhow, leash training was one of the hardest things to train her to do, IMO. But I would hold the leash closer to me and if she went to pull (which was more like run in place) I would stop. Eventually, she got the hint.

If I do give her more freedom at times, I'll just let the leash hang longer. It just takes time, but at 5.5 months is a great time to train them on the leash.

I think I get paranoid in crowds and I'll use her stroller sometimes, I'm not so much worried about her trying to be to far from me, but the other people not paying attention and walking into her, or stepping on her, I have such a fear of that in crowds.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Louise, I'd get the harness off of her and get her into puppy classes. In class there is free time to explore and get socialized and there is the time to pay attention and learn and she'll see the difference so you can allow her to be a dog and have a well trained girl in one. Typically when you have control of the head, you have control over the dog, but with a harness you don't have that. Milan came out with a new type of collar and I'm trying to remember the name of it. Let me see if I can find it on the web. It sits up high on the neck and not around the throat. www.cesarmillaninc.com/products/i-collar.php


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## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

Oh, that wasn't clear to me from the site. Thanks


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## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

Ellie does NOT get "instinctive" in crowds and stay closer. Her instinct is to greet every single person she meets. And when there are lots of people to meet......all the more fun and opportunity  She is an amazing 7 pounds and quite fearless.

Louise


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> Louise, I'd get the harness off of her and get her into puppy classes. In class there is free time to explore and get socialized and there is the time to pay attention and learn and she'll see the difference so you can allow her to be a dog and have a well trained girl in one. Typically when you have control of the head, you have control over the dog, but with a harness you don't have that. Milan came out with a new type of collar and I'm trying to remember the name of it. Let me see if I can find it on the web. It sits up high on the neck and not around the throat. www.cesarmillaninc.com/products/i-collar.php


Jan that sounds good but did you see the warning-------
*WARNING: If your dog's neck measures less than 13 inches at the base, or your dog weighs less than 18 lbs, you should NOT use the collar. The Illusion collar is not intended for puppies under one year of age. Dogs with any breathing problems, such as "pushed-in faces" that restrict breathing; dogs with trachea or throat problems, such as Pomeranians; and dogs with elongated, overly slender necks, such as Greyhounds, should NOT use the collar. Consult your local professional or veterinarian for further advice*.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

louise said:


> Ellie does NOT get "instinctive" in crowds and stay closer. Her instinct is to greet every single person she meets. And when there are lots of people to meet......all the more fun and opportunity  She is an amazing 7 pounds and quite fearless.
> 
> Louise


Louise, if you noticed my post above I did mention that Kubrick wasn't instinctive at all as a puppy either. It will take time and you need to find some non-crowded streets to work with her.


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## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

The Cesar Milan site describing the collar says the following "WARNING: If your dog's neck measures less than 13 inches at the base, or your dog weighs less than 18 lbs, you should NOT use the collar. The Illusion collar is not intended for puppies under one year of age. Dogs with any breathing problems, such as "pushed-in faces" that restrict breathing; dogs with trachea or throat problems, such as Pomeranians; and dogs with elongated, overly slender necks, such as Greyhounds, should NOT use the collar. Consult your local professional or veterinarian for further advice."

My Hav weighs 7 pound - I didn't measure, but I'd be afraid to use it.

Louise


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## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

When I went to the site there seemed to be a few different leash/collar combinations styles - different mechanical designs. Could you tell me exactly which one you are referring to?

Thanks again.

Louise


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

louise said:


> The Cesar Milan site describing the collar says the following "WARNING: If your dog's neck measures less than 13 inches at the base, or your dog weighs less than 18 lbs, you should NOT use the collar. The Illusion collar is not intended for puppies under one year of age. Dogs with any breathing problems, such as "pushed-in faces" that restrict breathing; dogs with trachea or throat problems, such as Pomeranians; and dogs with elongated, overly slender necks, such as Greyhounds, should NOT use the collar. Consult your local professional or veterinarian for further advice."
> 
> My Hav weighs 7 pound - I didn't measure, but I'd be afraid to use it.
> 
> Louise


Oh yuck, that wouldn't work for your dog. The martingale collar is a different choice as it can sit high on the neck. The best opinion I know to give you is everything in my post *except *Milan's collar.


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## ls-indy (Apr 10, 2008)

*Controlled Walking on a Loose Leash*

We took Daisy to basic obedience in October/November. She learned all the basic commands (sit, down, come, stay) and how to walk a formal "heel" - but she also learned "controlled walking on a loose leash". We want taking a walk to be FUN for her - to let her "be a dog" and be okay for her to stop and sniff something - but WITHOUT her tugging at the leash and making the walk miserable for us. This is what we were taught to teach her this skill:

The first step was to teach her NOT to pull on the leash. We were told to use a 6' leash and hold the handle of the leash in our left had. We didn't use any special training collar - just a regular flat collar worked for us. Have treats ready in our right hand. With Daisy sitting on our left side, we give the verbal command, "Daisy, let's go" in happy tone of voice. At first Daisy would get excited and lunge forward. Just BEFORE the leash becomes tight - we'd "pop" the leash and say her name. She would come back to us and we'd give her a treat and praise her before continuing the walk.

We were taught to let her have up to the 6' range - but to never let the leash tighten. Always give it a "pop" before she reaches the very end. The puppies in the class quickly learned what the radius of the leash was (in about 10 minutes) and quickly learned to pay attention to where the owner was in relation to them on a 6' leash. Of course, it's more exciting outside at home and we had to work between the classes (and still do) to keep the lesson ingrained. Now Daisy is FUN to walk with because she doesn't pull ahead, lunge to the side or lag behind. We don't mind walking a bit more slowly if she is sniffing the ground etc. and she knows if we pick up the pace she needs to do so as well. Her job is to NEVER let the leash be tight. FYI - We also practice a formal "heel" for situations when we want Daisy to stay right by our side (like around bikes or super-crowded areas) but mostly use the "loose leash" walking around the neighborhood.

One of the most important things I learned in the class is to praise and reward when you catch them doing something correctly - rather than waiting for them to do something wrong and have to verbally correct her. I try to sound really pleased when telling her "Excellent! Good girl, Daisy!"

Hope this helps&#8230;.


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## Hav a lot of pets (Apr 4, 2008)

We got our leash with the sliding rubber handle at PetsMart. 

Our dog uses a harness on a walk. You should know after a bit if a harness or collar works better for you. We were able to train with both until we got a clear message which performed better with our dog. It takes patience and consistency (no matter who is doing the walking, you should use the same commands and behavior). 

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Louise I got the leash/collar combo, it's one piece in the 3/4 inch size. You slip it over the dog's head, and then tighten up the collar to fit snugly, but without the two rings touching, if they touch they can't tighten the right way. You can google "martingale collar video" and a good video showing how they work will come up on YouTube. There have been other threads here too, about this issue, and when I get some time I'll post them.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Definitely ditch the harness for leash training. It will work against you. A harness is good for post-training.

I just spent the last two days in all day training sessions and was told to avoid martingales unless you are an expert. I don't know that you need to be an expert to use them, but to use them correctly, you definitely need training. 

Louise, have you taken Eille to any training classes? Most of them will teach you how to train with loose lead walking. It is a pretty easy concept, but it requires practice. You just need someone to show you how. All you need is a basic collar & lead and a little space to walk.


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Kimberly why did they say ditch the martingale? I know there definitely is a right and wrong way to use them, which I did have to learn online...but I'm just curious what the trainer said about them.

I actually have an extremely well mannered leash walking dog. I could probably use dental floss to walk her and she would be completely under control. When she does seem interested in a squirrel or something, I just do a little throat clear "ahem" and she pays attention to me again.

I do think the confidence and control the handler emits definitely travels down the lead and the dog can feel it. So, to me, that's even more important and you really can do it with a flat collar and leash, which is how I started walking Posh. 

My SIL swore to me up and down that her Cavalier was a terrible leash walker, that she pulled and weaved and was no fun to walk, and that Posh was such a dream on a lead. Well, I took her dog for a walk using a flat collar and a six foot lead (she uses a flexi-lead) and had to correct her a couple times, but hardly at all. She really knew what I expected and she did awesome. She really craved to have some one else, other than her, be in control.

The best thing you can do is go to training and learn to be a confident and pleasant handler who isn't forceful but is in control.

Just my two cents...


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Amy, he said that too many people use martingales incorrectly. You are probably not one of them. You have experience with dogs and looked up the correct method.


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## louise (Dec 5, 2008)

I signed up for classes but have only been to one. The emphasis was on tight leash walking and then when the dog crosses in front of you etc., you pull the dog to your left side and give a treat. 

My experience trying to practice this was that she quickly figured out where the treats were and that's all she could focus on. 

And/or she had a sit down strike until I gave her some freedom to wander.

The trainer, when using her as an example, commented jokingly, "this one has an extra battery"! She is energetic, curious and very interested in the entire world. I don't want to curtail this but I do want to be able to keep her safe and sometimes get where I'm going.

I will change back to a regular collar and see if that helps.


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