# Bones, Bones and more Bones



## Lila (Apr 9, 2013)

I want to give Mikey bones because you all say it's important for them and their teeth but I'm afraid which bones to give. Could someone please post a link to a place that sells safe bones or a store that does. Maybe show me a picture of a good one too. I've heard joint bones are bad, cooked bones are bad... I really don't know much about them but I'm sure Mike would love one.

Thank you in advance


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## Den&Barb (Dec 6, 2013)

http://shop.mercola.com/catalog/dog-bones,94,2.htm

(I think this forum was for suggestions, comments and feedback regarding the forum itself.)


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

best place ... your butcher.

"Raw bones are the best thing you can provide for your dog's oral health, but some are more
problematic than others.
You can save quite a bit of money by buying bones from your local grocery store or butcher as
well. Turkey and chicken necks, chicken wings and leg quarters, beef, lamb and pork neck bones
or ribs, lamb and veal shanks and oxtails are all suitable options. These are more or less
consumable, depending on how aggressive of a chewer a dog is.
You can also give recreational bones that are not fully consumable, for example beef or sheep
knuckle bones, but please do not give the tube shaped or sliced middle parts, "marrow bones"
that have the knuckles already removed, like those sold at grocery stores:
The fact that these bones are weight bearing affects the texture of the bone, and the older the
source animal is, the longer and heavier the weight compressing the bone matrix. I'm sure you
have heard of this before when learning that broken bones in young humans and animals heal
much faster than in adults, so it's not exaggerated when I'm telling you that these center parts of
marrow bones are the hardest, most durable bones in the body.
Extremely hard bones like that wear down the teeth and can easily cause slab fractures. An
added problem with sliced, "o-shaped" marrow bones is that they can get stuck in the jaw very
easily. There are much better, safer options available, and the joint knuckles of these large bones
are a great example.
Even wild wolves and African wild dogs (two species who hunt and kill large prey animals) were
observed to only chew off the ends of these bones[1] - their teeth guarantee their survival and
broken ones put them at a disadvantage."
[1] Source: "Raw Meaty Bones Promote Health", Tom Lonsdale, DMV: pp 324 and 325


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

In my experience, local grocery stores do not have raw chicken or turkey necks or beef ribs for sale so I buy them at a pet store. Here's one brand I've been happy with:

http://www.rawadvantagepetfood.com/chickennecks.html

Dental chew bones are unsafe for dogs; they take a long time to digest, are often swallowed almost whole because they're difficult to break down in your dog's mouth, and can end up lodged in the esophagus or intestines.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

MarinaGirl said:


> Dental chew bones are unsafe for dogs; they take a long time to digest, are often swallowed almost whole because they're difficult to break down in your dog's mouth, and can end up lodged in the esophagus or intestines.


Yep. This is REALLY important. I believed a (mis-informed) vet that they had been reformulated and were now safe. That mistake cost me $1,700, plus several worried days with Kodi in the hospital. Don't make the same mistake I did!!!


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

My guys eat Primal (raw frozen and freeze dried). Primal also sells frozen raw bones that I give once a week per their recommendation. Summer time is easy, eat it outside. Since the weather is so bad now they get them in their crate on a towel that I later throw in the washer. If they come out of their crate I take it away and they both have learned if they want the bone they have to eat it in the crate. I'll keep them out for a couple hours then I scrape out the marrow and save it to put in their dinner. Both Tim and Mae love them.


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## Den&Barb (Dec 6, 2013)

krandall said:


> Yep. This is REALLY important. I believed a (mis-informed) vet that they had been reformulated and were now safe. That mistake cost me $1,700, plus several worried days with Kodi in the hospital. Don't make the same mistake I did!!!


You must be talking about "Greenies". I wouldn't use those either, but the ones that Dr. Becker endorses are safe and not the same thing as those others. But then again time will tell. It's always a crap shoot although perhaps an educated one. There's lots of things that most people can eat but will kill someone else, goes for dogs too!


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

I won't feed my Hav any dental chews, whether the Greenie brand or the one Dr. Becker endorses. Those are not true bones. Instead, I feed Emmie raw chicken or turkey necks or raw beef ribs. -Jeanne-


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## dianaplo (Dec 30, 2013)

I had no idea it was safe to give them bones....and that turkey necks or chicken legs could be consumed...I thought those types of things were choking hazzards. That's interesting and a little exciting loll. I'll need to learn more...


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## Den&Barb (Dec 6, 2013)

I was confused about that too. Just make sure they are raw and not cooked!!!


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

All really good advice. People seem to think that cooked chicken bones are the only hazard - ALL cooked bones are a hazard. Dave's Tom Lonsdale quote is the best summing up of which bones are good. The only serious incident I've heard of is a friend's Weimeraner very nearly dying as a result of choking on a Nylabone. My vet is apoplectic that I feed my dogs raw bones. WHEN will they learn????? When will vets ever get proper tuition in nutrition? WHY is it allowed that they are taught the miserable amount that they ARE taught - it is a tiny part of the incredibly long veterinary degree - by pet food manufacturers??? Honestly, it is such a scandal! It really is a handicap to be an omnivore, it means any old rubbish can be shovelled down your throat (humans have the same problem) and you'll SURVIVE, but you won't flourish. If we gave kibble to, say, a boa constrictor it would kill it. So we don't. It doesn't kill our dogs outright, it causes chronic, wretched, debilitating misery over the long term and many vets encourage it. Hideous. End of rant!


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

davetgabby said:


> best place ... your butcher.
> 
> "Raw bones are the best thing you can provide for your dog's oral health, but some are more
> problematic than others.
> ...


I'm seeking clarification because I must have been misunderstanding what's safe and what's not.

Can I really feed Gibbs raw chicken wings, like the ones I would otherwise deep fry when I make Buffalo Wings for entertaining?

Same with:

Chicken Legs?
Thighs?
Quarters?
et. al. as mentioned

Some chicken bones have that skinny (pin like) "cartilagy" bone/?? stick like protrusion. Do I need to remove that?


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

I used to give my lab marrow bones all of the time --- his teeth were amazing -- until he got a little older and they started to wear down! Now I have an addicted dog who went into a depression when I stopped giving him the bones. He only gets them on special occasions.


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## RitaandRiley (Feb 27, 2012)

I give Riley raw bones. I avoid the chicken leg due to that pin-like bone. JMHO. Also with the ox tails, you want to get the thin end of the tail, not the thicker parts that have been sliced cross-wise. Ethnic markets are a good place to find the chicken necks and ox tails. Also, chicken feet make a good snack. Ethnic market again.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Den&Barb said:


> You must be talking about "Greenies". I wouldn't use those either, but the ones that Dr. Becker endorses are safe and not the same thing as those others. But then again time will tell. It's always a crap shoot although perhaps an educated one. There's lots of things that most people can eat but will kill someone else, goes for dogs too!


Not just Greenies. The Tufts University emegency hospital told me that dental chews of ALL types were the NUMBER ONE cause of surgical impactions that they see there. Higher, even, than raw hide, because more people seem to know the dangers of raw hide, but have had some vet tell them that (some brand of) dental chews are OK now. They are not.

If you have a dog who is a dainty, complete chewer, you might be lucky and get away with it. If your dog is an agressive chewer, and might bite off a piece and swallow it without chewing, you are playing with fire. They do not digest in the stomach, and can cause a blockage if them move into the intestine undigested.

The trouble is, even if you have a dog who USUALLY chews them thoroughly, you never know, for sure, when they might get it in their heads to swallow a piece.

Again, this is NOT a problem only with Greenies... It is dental chews in general.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Gibbs Mom and Dad said:


> I'm seeking clarification because I must have been misunderstanding what's safe and what's not.
> 
> Can I really feed Gibbs raw chicken wings, like the ones I would otherwise deep fry when I make Buffalo Wings for entertaining?
> 
> ...


yeah John, here's what Sabine says on this topic. 
"Chicken parts are great to include in a raw diet, since chicken is inexpensive, so you can feed even organic for relatively low cost. The cheapest way is to buy whole fryer/roaster chickens and cutting them up into appropriate pieces for the individual dog.

No bones are removed, but it is very important to supervise initially, so the dogs chew properly and don't gulp down the food and hurt themselves that way. I would also remove the skin initially, so you don't feed too much fat all at once, since it can give some dogs the runs.

One important thing to keep in mind is that feeding chicken parts only is NOT a balanced diet and will not keep a dog healthy in the long run. They can be used to replace part of the daily kibble (or whatever else is being fed as a balanced commercial diet)."


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

davetgabby said:


> yeah John, here's what Sabine says on this topic.
> "Chicken parts are great to include in a raw diet, since chicken is inexpensive, so you can feed even organic for relatively low cost. The cheapest way is to buy whole fryer/roaster chickens and cutting them up into appropriate pieces for the individual dog.
> 
> No bones are removed, but it is very important to supervise initially, so the dogs chew properly and don't gulp down the food and hurt themselves that way. I would also remove the skin initially, so you don't feed too much fat all at once, since it can give some dogs the runs.
> ...


Thank you.

We feed Primal Raw and can easily replace a nugget with a chicken wing.


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

krandall said:


> Not just Greenies. The Tufts University emegency hospital told me that dental chews of ALL types were the NUMBER ONE cause of surgical impactions that they see there. Higher, even, than raw hide, because more people seem to know the dangers of raw hide, but have had some vet tell them that (some brand of) dental chews are OK now. They are not.
> 
> If you have a dog who is a dainty, complete chewer, you might be lucky and get away with it. If your dog is an agressive chewer, and might bite off a piece and swallow it without chewing, you are playing with fire. They do not digest in the stomach, and can cause a blockage if them move into the intestine undigested.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

I'm highly concerned and started a new thread to discuss the dangers. I didn't want to Hijack this one.


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## Carli (Nov 5, 2013)

Just wandering at what age would you recommend giving a bone at?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Carli said:


> Just wandering at what age would you recommend giving a bone at?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sabine started at two months and two days.


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## Gibbs Mom and Dad (Jun 3, 2013)

Just gave him his first chicken wing. He seemed to like it. Took about 5-10 minutes once he really started to get into it.

I one/day appropriate?


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

The first time you do this you'll have a little trepidation if you've never fed wings before. My dogs grew to love them, but I stopped feeding them because I mainly wanted bones as keep-them-busy treats when I was away. Now I get lamb marrow bones at a wonderful raw pet food resource store I have locally. Because the marrow bones are much smaller than beef marrow bones, they work at them for a long time. 

When Sheldon sees me getting a bone out of the freezer, he excitedly jumps into his ex-pen. He doesn't even look up when I leave.


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