# Ulceration in mouth



## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I took Kubrick to the vet last week (I've complained about that trip already in another post) but while I was there, the vet noticed that Kubrick has an ulcer in the soft palate of his mouth. He's actually had this round bump in his mouth for months. I first noticed it back last summer (maybe even earlier?) and didn't think anything of it as it never got bigger and nothing came of it. Also, I feel like I read somewhere on here about something similar in another Hav, but I can't find it anymore so maybe it was my imagination?

Anyway, I was at the vet last week because Kubrick had the runs and he was peeing a LOT - I mean like a lake every time he went, which seemed contradictory to the diarrhea. When the vet heard about all this in conjunction with the ulcer in the mouth, she immediately thought kidney problem, in specific renal failure. Of course this made me freak out. Renal failure in dogs is incurable and fatal. So I told her to do a full chem panel, including checking for kidney and liver numbers. I was so upset waiting for those results, crying and thinking that I would lose my baby Kubrick... just thinking about that makes me tear up. She called me the next day and all his numbers were spot-on perfect. No kidney or liver failure (thank goodness!) and his chem panel was good. I am of course very very relieved, but worried about this ulcer anyway as it apparently isn't as normal as I thought? I have an appointment with my regular vet tomorrow morning to have him look at it and see what he says. The vet I saw last week mentioned that as he's had it so long with no side effects it probably isn't too problematic, but she's worried about it getting bigger and perhaps blocking his throat so it'll make it hard for him to eat. It hasn't grown at all in months, though.

So I wanted to post here to ask if anyone has seen anything similar in their Havs? It's a round "bump" - almost perfectly round - on the top of his mouth, near the throat. I tried so very hard to get a picture of it but it's SO hard to do. This is the best I could come up with - I'm sorry the quality is so bad... I had to up the light fill and lighten the shadows for it to show up. I hope you can still see it? It's the round thing on the back of his mouth.










Of course, this was also the same vet that treated me poorly, and didn't seem to know about some things (she's very young) so perhaps she just doesn't know and is just being careful... I'll see what my regular vet says.

Oh and I wanted to add that I figured out what was making Kubrick pee so much - it was the Adolph's meat tenderizer which is mostly salt that was making him drink more and thus pee more. Sodium affects dogs differently so it affected him more than Hitchcock - who was peeing normally. I stopped the Adolph's and a few days later he was peeing/drinking normally again.

Thanks so much for all your help!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

oh Lina! I have nothing to add-- Just wanted to give you HUG! Please let us know what your regular vet says.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Carolina, I just went to the doctor last week b/c I had a spot in the back of my throat that burned...turns out it was an ulcer. I don't know if it's the same in people as in dogs, but she prescribed a mixture of benadryl, maalox and decadron. I had to gargle with it, then swallow. Within a couple of days it was gone.


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

My yorkie had a growth on her gums, so different spot, but it was bacterial and probably related to her dental issues. It was removed once surgically and recurred. I am just throwing out ideas, but I wonder if it could be related to bacteria or some sort of organism/infection, particularly since you had the runny poop issue and they are on Flagyl (is that antifungal or antiparasitic?). For myself I'm into natural and alternative remedies, and I guess I would look into something herbal, homeopathic, or colloidal silver, something like that, if what's being recommended by your vet doesn't sit right with you or isn't working. (A lot of this stuff I learned too late to help my last dog.) I have a good holistic vet, and I am still researching some of these remedies to have ready in the event I need it. I haven't talked with her in probably 5 years, so I'm interested to see what she's learned since then. A lot of people swear by colloidal silver for dogs, though I wouldn't use it every day as prevention, since it's a mild antibiotic.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Carolina, I am not sure what it is, but have you talked to his breeder about this? Maybe it is a benign growth that 'runs in the family' kind of like keloids...sending you hugs, it's obviously been a few rough days for you...


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Lina I wish I could give you an answer but at least wanted you to know we are thinking of you hugs and let us know how it goes at the vets


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Lina- I don't have any experience with this but sending hugs. I am shocked you saw as it is so far back. Makes me want to go explore my pups mouth's more.

Amanda


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## mimismom (Feb 15, 2009)

Lina, can't wait to see what the vet says...

Best wishes.


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## Janet Zee (Mar 16, 2007)

Lina......So sorry to hear about Kubie. I can just imagine how upset you must have been waiting for the test results and so very glad all his numbers were perfect. May I ask why you went to a different Vet about this problem rather than your regular Vet? 

I think I better check my babies too!!

Don't bother answering my question about the Vet, I just read the other thread explaining the reason.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Wow--That is kinda scary Lina. I'm so sorry about the bad vet visit but thrilled to read that everything is ok. I don't think I've seen anything like that before,but I was thinking that you may be remembering a thread I had? Quincy once had a little wierd pimple looking thing on the edge of his eye. Remember that? Then,I'll be darned if someone else's hav didn't get the same thing...it was nothing and resolved itself. This may not be at all what you were thinking of,but I just thought of it as I was reading your post.

Is it possible that this is a scar from an injury? Maybe a sharp point on something puppies get into? Maybe a sharp edge of a bully stick? IDK...just kinda throwing out ideas and hoping it isn't anything serious.

Please keep us informed-----:hug:


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Lina~ Sorry you're dealing w/so much vet "stuff" lately. Can't believe what a jerk that vet was to actually lie to you. Talk about acting "high and mighty". Geesh... I can only imagine what she'd have to say about Tori weighing 7.5 lbs. at 21 mos. old  

As for the thing in Kubie's mouth, I have no idea what it could be. I'm hoping it's something easily taken care of. 

Hugs to you and belly rubs for the boys.


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## Jan D (Mar 13, 2007)

Seems like you've had alot of things going on lately with Kubrick. Hopefully the little bump--I can see it well in the picture--is nothing and you won't have to worry any longer!


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

Just wanted to give hugs too. Ugh. Just want to smack people sometimes. I hope your vet gives you better information and gives that Lil Miss Britches a nice chat.

Remember Winston's mouth issue that my vet had me panicking over and running to a specialist who wanted a gazillion dollars and it turned out to be absolutely NOTHING at all. UGH. :frusty:

Big hug.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Lina, I'm sorry you're going through all of this. I hope this turns out to be something easily treated. :grouphug:


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

I hope everything turns out okay. I'm glad you are going to see your usual vet. Hugs from me and Gryff.

BTW - how did you get Kubrick to open his mouth like that?


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Never have seen this so can't add anything. Hope it turns out to be nothing and can be taken care of easily.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Lina, I'm amazed at your self control at not posting this info in a panic when you first had the blood work done! You've got good control of your nerves!!

I don't know what that ulcer could be. (Your picture shows it well.) It is odd. I hope it's nothing, especially since it hasn't changed. Maybe he'd always had it, and it's just the way he is. 

Now, I'm off to pry open Tucker's mouth and look down his throat....


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Carolina, I have no idea what it could be, but I'm curious. Is it a smooth raised area, like a cyst, or is it more like a cold sore that looks like it has an opening or a ridge to it?


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Wow, Carolina, I'm amazed you were able to get such a good photo - you can see the cyst in the back there.

I am wondering if it is injury related, like Julie was suggesting, or if even something splinter-like got embedded into the tissue there, and that the tissue is thickening and growing into a bump there to encapsulate it. 

Do they recommend removing it or doing a biopsy?

I'm hoping it is nothing serious and not related to anything systemic. Hugs to you and Kubrick! Please let us know what your regular vet says.

Thanks for the update on the Adolph's too - I didn't realize it was was high in sodium.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Carolina, I'm wondering if is just overgrowth of tissue that has caused a bump somehow. I'm like Kimberly . . . without a close-up, it's hard to tell if is just a growth or something more ulcerated. I guess the vet could always remove it just in case, and then they could examine it to find out for sure. At any rate, Kubrick looks like he has beautiful teeth, so we know it's not from his oral hygiene! I'm glad you will get to see your vet next time. Keep us posted and I hope all goes well.

On a side note, I have sent your blog to several friends who knit, and while they are wowed by your talent and photography, they also want a Havanese


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## arlene (Jul 28, 2007)

Lina I'm amazed at the photograph and Kubrick's pearly whites! I really have no idea what it could be but I'm sure everything will go well tomorrow. Keep us posted.

Arlene


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Hope things go well at the vet today, for Kubrick and for you! My oldest son gets canker sores in his mouth almost all the time, sometimes he'll have 4 or 5 at a time. We've done all sorts of tests but finally told that they're just viral and nothing we can do. I feel bad for him as they're swollen and painful but he just has to wait until they go away. We've also been told they're caused by stress. So who knows???

Hugs to you all today, can't wait to hear what YOUR vet says!


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Gosh Lina, I don't know what that could be, but hopefully your regular vet can tell you. I'm sorry you've been through so much with the vet and furbabies!
Gina


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

I am so sorry Carolina that you have had to deal with so much lately at the vet's. It must have been a great relief that Kubrick's blood panel is normal. Wishing him continued great health!

I hope that the growth in Kubrick's mouth is nothing serious. I am sure your regular vet would have answers and treatment. :hug: 

P.S. You took an amazing picture. The growth in the back of the mouth is so clearly visible.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Same here...just sending hugs and support.....and many hopes/prayers the lump is a benign, harmless thing.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

ARGH! I just typed this whole post and hit the back key by mistake and it deleted it entirely!!!! SO annoyed!

Well, this might be shorter then, but basically my regular vet saw Kubrick and said that although rare, he's seen this type of ulcer before in a Huskie. Apparently it's not common but that could be because most vets (and dog owners) never look that far back in the mouth to see it - it's possible that a lot of dogs have it and are just not diagnosed with it. It's called Inflammatory Palate Lesion (or Ulcer) and although there aren't enough dogs diagnosed with it to make a real assessment, it doesn't seem to have any negative side effects. It's just something they have. He says there's pretty much nothing about this on the web (I concur with this as I just tried searching), but that he'll give me a password to VIN (Veterinary Information Network) so I can do some reading on it. IF it gets bigger or Kubrick starts having problems eating, or some other side effects show up, then we can look again and consider a possible biopsy but he doesn't think it will pose a problem as Kubrick's had it for so long with no problems.

Thank you so much to everyone for your support, suggestions and hugs! I am so thankful for this forum... you guys are all wonderful! :grouphug:

Answering questions below that weren't answered above (please let me know if I missed yours!):

Maryam, that's a good idea, I will certainly ask!

Janet, I went to another vet because my regular vet was on vacation... it was for something else, but she just noticed the ulcer (which I had seen before months prior) and suggested I ask my regular vet about it.

Julie, I remember that thread... no it wasn't what I was thinking of, but it could be I was just messed up! I did think bully stick or something at first, but he had it for so long it didn't make sense.

Ivy, after trying and trying to get a picture by prying his mouth open, he just yawned and I snapped it right on time, LOL!

Kimberly, it is a smooth raised area, no openings or slits.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I just had to check in to see if you had any news. I'm so glad to hear that it doesn't sound like a problem.

(& the VIN is really cool for info, too!)


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Glad to hear the news about Kubrick


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Glad to hear it's nothing serious!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Yeah, nice to have good news after the bad encounter there. Glad he's ok!


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

I am happy Kubrick is OK . . . let us know if you find out anymore info on this rare lesion. Sorry for your bad week but maybe things will get better now


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Glad to hear it is just something to watch over. Did you find out could be it be from an injury or is it genetic? Also glad your regular vet was so proactive with your concerns. I really hope she learns to not be so negative when defensive.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

YES Lexi had the same thing for almost a year. I kept thinking I was seeing things, then my vet had a hard time seeing it as she would not open her mouth for her. But it is exactly like the picture.
My vet could not identify it, and felt it was not something to worry about since she had no other problems. I will say that once I started her on a Tbsp of yogurt a day - it went away - and has never come back. Hopefully it is the same with Kubrick. Lexi's was in the exact same spot.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Glad that it is nothing serious to worry about. Hopefully, it will go away like Lexi's did.


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

That's good news. Did you talk to your vet about the new vet that gave you so much grief?


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## Sissygirl (Aug 8, 2007)

Carolina,

I am glad to hear the vet thinks it will be ok. I know it must be scary not knowing.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Glad to know it's not anything serious. I hope it turns out like Lexi's did.


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## michi715 (Apr 8, 2008)

Carolina - Glad to hear things are ok! See you guys Monday!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

*"but that he'll give me a password to VIN (Veterinary Information Network) so I can do some reading on it. "*

Whoa. Worlds away from that other vet you saw earlier!! How nice to be considered intelligent enough. :biggrin1: I am VERY glad to hear it's nothing to worry about. Curious, too, that Laurie's Lexi had the same thing. Maybe we should all be checking our Havs' palates!

You've had a rough week or so, girl. You need the weekend off.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Laurie, really? Wow, that's so interesting! Maybe I will try the yogurt thing just to see. It shouldn't hurt either way. Thanks! 

Amanda, from what the vet says it sounds like something they don't really know enough about to say either way. He did say that a lot of Huskies have it compared to other breeds, so perhaps it does have a genetic link to it.

Ivy, yes I did. I updated the other thread. Here's a link:

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=8238


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## Hav a lot of pets (Apr 4, 2008)

So sorry you are going through all this. I hate when people assume I am stupid when they do not know me. It makes it even worse when they try to manipulate me. I am sure you agree from the sound of your post about the "new" vet.

I hope this spot goes away. I am definitely going to try to get a look in Linus's mouth as soon as I can figure out how. I am not sure waiting for a yawn while I hold a flashlight is very time efficient!


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

Me & Henry hope Kubrick continues to mend from this.
:suspicious: What else have you photographed that maybe the rest of us haven't?


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Glad Kubrick is okay and it's nothing serious!!!!
Gina


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Just wanted to update this old thread to say that since I have been giving Kubrick yogurt every day the ulcer went away! It must have been some sort of bacteria causing it? So strange! Thanks for the tip again, Laurie!


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Lina said:


> Just wanted to update this old thread to say that since I have been giving Kubrick yogurt every day the ulcer went away! It must have been some sort of bacteria causing it? So strange! Thanks for the tip again, Laurie!


:whoo:YEAH! :whoo:


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Wow! That's great!


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## Mraymo (Oct 30, 2007)

Glad to hear the yogurt worked.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Great news !!


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

That's great! I bet Kubrick runs to the kitchen every time he hears the tub being opened.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Great news! Interesting cure . . .


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