# OMG....Lulu has a liver shunt!



## mellowbo

*OMG....Popcorn AKA Lulu has a liver shunt!*

I'm so devestated! I can't stop crying. My precious little puppy has a liver shunt. The vet just called with her bile acid results. He said the surgery is extremely dangerous for a 4.4 lb puppy. She hasn't gained an ounce in 3 1/2 weeks now and she is only 20 1/2 weeks old.
Please pray for my beautiful sweet baby.
Carole


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## Sunnygirl

I'm sorry to hear this, Carole. It must be heartbreaking. I don't really know anything about liver shunts, but you and Lulu are in my thoughts.


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## maryam187

Oh Carole, 
that truly sounds horrible. I'm of no big help, all I can do is pray for you two! But I'm sure other people on the forum can give you some good advice!!!
So sorry...


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## Poornima

Wish you and Lulu all the best. Hope your vet is able to find a treatment that will make Lulu feel better soon.


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## Julie

sending good thoughts,wishes and prayers:angel::kiss::angel:


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## Julie

I know Maddies Mom--Jeanne knows about this....hopefully she will see this or you can PM her.


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## Lina

Carole I'm sorry to hear about little Lulu! I am sending good thoughts your way. :hug:


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## irnfit

So sorry. Hope this can be solved soon and your puppy will be thriving.


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## Brady's mom

Carole,
I am so sorry you have to go through this. I will certainly keep you and Lulu in my thoughts and prayers. I hope Linda sees this soon as she has been through this with Bella and may be able to offer some words of wisdom.


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## MopTop Havanese

I am so sorry!
I don't have any experience with liver shunts, but I know a few members here on the forum do~
Best of luck to you...and your sweet LuLu!


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## Thumper

mellowbo said:


> I'm so devestated! I can't stop crying. My precious little puppy has a liver shunt. The vet just called with her bile acid results. He said the surgery is extremely dangerous for a 4.4 lb puppy. She hasn't gained an ounce in 3 1/2 weeks now and she is only 20 1/2 weeks old.
> Please pray for my beautiful sweet baby.
> Carole


Carole, I am SOOOOO very sorry  That breaks my heart. I am sending lots of well wishes and healing vibes your way.

Is your vet ruling out surgery completely? Or just postponing it? What does he suggest you do for it? 

hugs,
Kara


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## mckennasedona

Carole, I'm so very sorry. I hope the vet can help you to figure out what to do to help Lulu through this. I know there are several folks on the forum who have been through it. My thoughts and prayers are with you and little Lulu.

Susan


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## calidu

Carole, I'm so sorry to hear about Lulu, I hope everything is going to be okay.


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## Callalilly

Carole, 

Here's one more dog lover who will be holding you and your lil' pup up in prayer. I wish I could do more but for now I'll be thinking of you and your family.

Lisa


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## mellowbo

Thanks so much for the good thoughts. Linda is going to call me in about a half an hour. My mind just keeps going to Shadow......I have to make myself think positive! I am going to try to get her to eat veggies, but, she is typical of a shunt baby and is very picky! Last night I boiled some chicken breast with vegs, etc. She loved it. Today the vet told me that was completely the wrong thing to do....no protein...


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## ama0722

Carole,
First I am so sorry about your bad news. Just know that a liver shunt can be treated. When I got my maltese 5 years ago. My friend had a yorkie and while they were the same size when we got them, Bonnie quit growing. She stayed in the 2lb range. THen my friend noticed the blood in her urine. She ended up having 2 surgeries at Michigan State University but now at 5 years old, is only on a special kibble diet and no treats. But runs around like normal. Please keep us posted and hugs!

Amanda


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## dschles

Carole--

We are sending good thoughts your way. I have read on the yahoo groups havhealth list that there ia a yahoo group for liver shunt and MVD that is very helpful. You should join it. 

--Diane


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## Brady's mom

I am glad to hear that Linda is calling you. She has been through this and hopefully it will help to talk to someone who has been there before.


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## Leeann

Sending lots of hugs & kisses to you & LuLu. Please keep us updated on how she is doing, you have a large group of supporters on this forum in your corner.


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## Lo01

I agree with Amanda,
Porto-Systemic shunts can be managed surgically, and although serious, these pups can ultimately have a good quality of life. Medical and dietary management may be an option until your little one obtains enough weight for surgery. I would also seek another opinion with regard to your puppies management -- ideally from a Veterinarian with the appropriate sub-specialty.

Our family has you and your little one in our thoughts and prayers.

All the best,
*'Lo*


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## Thumper

mellowbo said:


> Thanks so much for the good thoughts. Linda is going to call me in about a half an hour. My mind just keeps going to Shadow......I have to make myself think positive! I am going to try to get her to eat veggies, but, she is typical of a shunt baby and is very picky! Last night I boiled some chicken breast with vegs, etc. She loved it. Today the vet told me that was completely the wrong thing to do....no protein...


Ask your vet if you are to eliminate ALL protein.

The first thing that comes to mind (because I homecook for Gucci) is fortified Rice Cereal (for babies) I use that to fill some gaps in Gucci's diet. I just checked the box and it said 5% protein, but it is a great source of vitamins and is mostly carbs. Please *check with your Vet* first and find out if you can feed that, and if 5% protein is okay? 

I know you are really scared, but there is always the possibility of fixing the shunt, so don't give up hope!

hugs,
Kara


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## MaddiesMom

Carole- I am so sorry to hear about Lulu. I know that this must be devastating. But try not to jump to the worst conclusion. Like Amanda said, some liver shunts are treatable by surgery. If Lulu is too small now for the surgery, it doesn't mean she can't have it in the future. You just have to keep her as healthy as possible through her diet and meds. First, I'd get her to a liver specialist. Second, try to keep her on a low protein diet. Chicken is fine, but she should have greater amounts of rice and veggies so as to reduce the amount of protein. There are 2 really good Yahoo groups for liver dogs. The first is http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/canineliver-d/ and the second one is http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support/

You'll have to join both groups to have access, but it usually only takes a few hours for them to give you your membership. Here's a website discussing PSS (portosystemic shunts). 
http://vetsurgerycentral.com/pss.htm

I believe that Linda (lfung5) has a dog that has had the shunt surgery. You could PM her and get some valuable information. I know your head is swimming right now, but you and Lulu *can* make it through this. Feel free to PM me for any other questions or diet information, and I'll be more than happy to give you any information I have. Hugs to you and Lulu.:grouphug:

Jeanne


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## Amy R.

You and Lulu are in my thoughts and prayers. :grouphug: We will all be rooting for her. Please keep us posted.


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## MaddiesMom

One more thing....if Lulu will eat it (and I *know* from personal experience that liver dogs are notorious poor eaters) here is Monica Segal's Liver Diet that you can make for Lulu. She developed this diet in conjunction with Dr. Jean Dodd. Of course, you'd have to adjust quantities for Lulu's size. Its a great diet if you can get Lulu to eat it. My previous Hav wouldn't eat cod so I substituted skinless chicken breast.

http://www.monicasegal.com/aboutus/yahoo017.php

Here is Dr. Dodd's original liver cleansing diet:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/liver_cleansing_diet.htm


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## Paige

So sorry to hear about Lulu, sending healing vibes you way.:angel: :angel:


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## Thumper

MaddiesMom said:


> One more thing....if Lulu will eat it (and I *know* from personal experience that liver dogs are notorious poor eaters) here is Monica Segal's Liver Diet that you can make for Lulu. She developed this diet in conjunction with Dr. Jean Dodd. Of course, you'd have to adjust quantities for Lulu's size. Its a great diet if you can get Lulu to eat it. My previous Hav wouldn't eat cod so I substituted skinless chicken breast.
> 
> http://www.monicasegal.com/aboutus/yahoo017.php
> 
> Here is Dr. Dodd's original liver cleansing diet:
> 
> http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/liver_cleansing_diet.htm


32% protein seems very high? I thought they were supposed to restrict protein with shunts?

I am not an expert on diet for liver shunts, so please talk to your vet. If you need some sources of low protein foods, PM me and I can help. I just thought the rice cereal would be a great way to supplement vitamins. Other products, marketed for dogs, are much higher in protein.

I hope the groups can help you! There is probably a wealth of information there.

Kara


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## lfung5

Carole,
We both knew in our hearts something was wrong, but nothing can prepare you for the bad news. It was suggested you can feed her a small amount of protein, maybe that's what I did. It was too long ago to remember the details. If you decide to add a very small amount of chicken to the HILL's LD diet, make sure you cut it up in tennie tiny pieces and mix it really well. Bella was great at just picking out what she liked. If she eats that diet she should gain weight. Stick to the plan and get the Ultra sound. Once you find out what type of shunt it is, you can make more decisions. Someone also mentioned the Yahoo Groups and I highly recommend that as well as calling the people we talked about. 
Please keep in mind, Bella was even smaller at Lulu's age. She was 4lbs at 7 months. Look at her now, she is a healthy happy spoiled little Cujo! Keep us posted, we all care deeply about you and your baby.


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## lfung5

Thumperlove said:


> 32% protein seems very high? I thought they were supposed to restrict protein with shunts?
> 
> I am not an expert on diet for liver shunts, so please talk to your vet. If you need some sources of low protein foods, PM me and I can help. I just thought the rice cereal would be a great way to supplement vitamins. Other products, marketed for dogs, are much higher in protein.
> 
> I hope the groups can help you! There is probably a wealth of information there.
> 
> Kara


I think you are right Kara. I am pretty sure Bella's only protein souce was the chicken broth that was in her perscription food.


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## Thumper

lfung5 said:


> I think you are right Kara. I am pretty sure Bella's only protein souce was the chicken broth that was in her perscription food.


I know Monica Segal has a big internet following, but I'm not certain that her 32% protein diet would be appropriate for this particular liver condition. I'm glad you have Linda to help you through. If you decide to homecook, PM me and I can help w/ low protein ideas, like the baby cereal and other veggies w/ low protein.. and I'm sure Linda and Leslie have ideas as well.

Kara


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## Sissygirl

Carole,

My prayers are with you and I hope you find a solution really soon.


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## Laurief

Kisses, Hugs & Prayers to you Carole, & LuLu. If you have to go thru bad things like this, this is the best place to be. Not only will you find the most suspportive people, but very knowledgable as well!! Best of luck to you guys!
Laurie


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## Cosmosmom

I would go on U/C Davis in Davis Ca - web site and under small animals and see what information you can get from it .. 
if you have a mind - you could probably call there and they would put you in touch with someone who might be able to give you some more detailed information .
If surgery is necessary do not worry thye are surgeons who operate on small dogs all the time .. 
I am so sorry to hear of this finding but try and be positive .You are in our prayers .
Take care ..


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## MaddiesMom

Kara- Looking at the protein percentages on Monica Segal's diet, I have to agree that it does look like too much protein. When you look at the amount of fish to other ingredients, it doesn't look like alot. Some vets don't recommend restricting the protein if the dog doesn't have HE (hepatic encephalopathy). That's why a specialist needs to be consulted to get the proper advice. I tried to give my dog (she did not have a liver shunt) at least 3/4 of her food rice, sweet potato, veggies, etc. Then I put a little high quality protein in it. I tried to get my dog to eat the prescription L/D, but she wouldn't touch it. If Carole can get Lulu to a liver specialist, they can suggest a good home cooked or commercial diet. What is *most* important is to get the dog to eat. Otherwise, they just get weaker and weaker. The Yahoo support groups are excellent, and if you post that you need help, I'm sure alot of people with liver shunt dogs will give input on what has worked for them. Its a constant struggle, but Carole, you need to know that you're not alone and that there is definite hope for Lulu. Hopefully you can find a great specialist for your baby.


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## Thumper

Yes, I agree!

Incase you missed that on my other two posts, I highly encourage that you talk to a specialist or two. Nobody here on the forum is equiped to suggest protein percentages, but we can help with ideas once you understand the restrictions.. The Yahoo groups I've visited regarding canine nutrition are wonderful! There is a wealth of knowledge out there, but they don't always agree with each other and that can make it quite confusing!

I think we are all just worried and want her to eat! The more you can get her weight up, the better she'll do in surgery.

We are all here for you!

Kara


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## lfung5

Come to think of it, I did not add chicken to the formula. I was instructed not to give her any protein at all. I was lucky because Bella loved the Hill's LD. It was the first time I saw her actually eat her entire plate! Let me know if Lulu eats the LD. If not Kara sound like she has a lot of great recipes for you.


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## Missy

Carole you and LuLu are in my thoughts--- keep us posted.


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## lfung5

Carole,
Did she eat tonight?


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## casperkeep

Carol and Lulu you are in our thoughts and prayers...please keep us posted as to how things are going for you two. Jillee sends puppy hugs and kisses!!!


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## juliav

Carole and Lulu,

Sending hugs, kisses, good wishes and prayers to both of you. 
Did Lulu eat tonight?


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## judith

i am wishing good news for you, carole.


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## whitBmom

I am very sorry to hear about Lulu. Carole I am thinking of you and sending good healing vibes your way... Hugs to the two of you :grouphug:


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## Kathy

Carole,
I have had a chance to read all through this thread, but my advise would be to take her to a specialist. The bile acid test isn't completely accurate for a final diagnosis. I know this is scary for you and I am so sorry. I am sure by now you are doing a lot of your own research. Cornell University is the leader in liver shunt studies. You might contact them.


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## Doggie Nut

Carole, I am so sad to hear the news about your precious Lulu. My prayer is peace for you and health & wholeness for Lulu!


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## mellowbo

Hi all. Thanks so much for all your support! I bought the L/D canned food tonight and Lulu basically turned her nose up. She did eat about a tablespoon. I'm sure she wanted the chicken soup.
I've been talking to people and researching all day. I had the vet fax the lab results to me. As far as I can see, her levels aren't THAT high. It is 67.9. There are other things it could be. However, she hasn't gained any weight in3 1/2 weeks. I spoke with Linda Fung (She is so great) and she told me that her baby's levels were much higher.
OK, now for the breeder. She told me to bring Lulu back to her and she will refund my money. How in the world do I do that??? I wish she would have wanted to refund my money and let me put it toward the vet bills. 
I don't know if I should have more tests, keep trying the new diet and see if she gains weight or what.


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## good buddy

Carole, I'm so sorry you have such a scary diagnosis for Lulu. She is very small so of course that's scary. Join the Yahoo groups and find out as much as you can about dietary support for her. Perhaps she would be a better candidate for the surgery later when she's a bit bigger. I'll be praying for you both. Hang in there and get pro-active to see all the ways you can help her.


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## lfung5

Carol,
I just remembered when bella was sick there were several dogs in the hananese rescue waiting to have liver shunt surgery at Cornell. I think some of these dogs were a bit older, so I believe you have time.


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## mellowbo

I think we have time. I don't think I will be able to reach any specialist over the weekend, but I will try. UC Davis has a vet site here in San Diego and I called them but so far no one has returned my call.
I know we will get Lulu better! She is my precious baby!!! She gives the best puppy kisses!!
xxoox


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## Missy

Carole, I do not know anything about diets for liver shunts. But my boys who usually will not touch anything but meat-- go wild for Pasta!! they would eat a whole bowl if I let them. So maybe something to try. My heart goes out to you.


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## Atomickittyn

aww u poor thing! i can't imagine how upsetting this is for you. we're thinking of you and wishing you and your l'il lulu the best.


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## danak

*Dear Lulu's mom*

I just did a Google search using several different words pertaining to liver shunt. I would first do a search for k9 liver shunt specialist+your town

Then I did just liver shunt.

I'm sure this has already been suggested, but I wanted to just add my love, good thoughts and anything that might help.

Dana


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## pjewel

I don't know how I missed this thread. There isn't much I can add to the discussion, other than the fact that my prayers and healing thoughts are with you in this very difficult time. I do agree with everyone that you need to get as much information as you can and count on the support of the group as you make your decisions. God bless you both.


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## Lilysplash I

My 3 month old puppy ended up having liver shunt surgery on October 1. She weighed 3.7 #'s. Once she was diagnosed by having the Bile Acid Test, the vet put her on lactalose and LD prescription Science Diet which really helped short term but long term the problem needs to be fixed. I can report that the surgery was successful and she has been making up for lost time by playing with my other Havanese and gainng weight. As of today, she weighs 5.3 # and seems happy to be alive. She will be on the prescription low protein diet until the end of November when she can return to a normal diet. She eats Science Diet LD canned and Royal Canin Hepatic kibble which is also prescription. She will also be on medications, Lactulose and an antibiotic that we will taper off beginning November. I am glad to report a good outcome and to give you hope. I had looked on this site for liver shunts and also did alot of research. The breeder has been very supportive and refunded our money. She is very responsible and had done all the proper testing beforehand. Our dog was the only one in the litter with this problem. Liver shunts are not common in the Havanese. It feels really good to report all of this! Successful surgery and post op means your dog should live a normal life with a normal life span. The surgery is expensive but truly believe that God wanted her to live so He gave her to us!


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## MaddiesMom

Lilysplash- Thank you for posting this! I'm sure it will give Carole encouragement about her Lulu. Its scary for pet owners who face these things, and they have to remember that every dog is different and not to get discouraged, but to have hope. Many dogs have had successful liver shunt surgeries and are doing great. Your sharing your story was wonderful and I'm so happy your baby is doing well. Its wonderful that she ended up with such a great, loving Mommy!


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## Lynn

Carole, 
I am so sorry Lulu is not well, you have so much knowledge available here with a great support group. I am really praying it will be treatable and she will be ok.

We had another puppy last winter on the forum that had a liver shunt and had surgery and recovered.

The member is Pennylite and the dog was Darby,maybe it would help to read though that thread.
http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?p=2727#post2727


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## Beamer

Hi Carole,
Sorry to hear about lulu's liver shunt. 
Hopefully all will be good!
Ryan & Beamer


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## JASHavanese

mellowbo said:


> I'm so devestated! I can't stop crying. My precious little puppy has a liver shunt. The vet just called with her bile acid results. He said the surgery is extremely dangerous for a 4.4 lb puppy. She hasn't gained an ounce in 3 1/2 weeks now and she is only 20 1/2 weeks old.
> Please pray for my beautiful sweet baby.
> Carole


Carole, we're sending prayers for a successful surgery and easy recovery.
:hug:


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## Laurief

I think of LuLu every day - and we all were sending good thoughts and vibes from our playdate yesterday. Hope Mom is feeling better too - it has to be very hard.
Prayers are with you guys!


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## Thumper

Yes, I am thinking of Lulu again today! I hope she's eating better and you are making progress finding specialists. Thanks, Lilisplash for posting your story! It is important to remember the success stories and keep the faith!

Hugs,
Kara


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## Lola

Hi Carole,
I am so sorry to hear about Lulu. I was in your place in May, and I found wonderful information from many supportive people in this forum. Maddies Mom has wonderful information and also the forums she suggested for you to join are also very informative. I know you head is spinning right now. But please consult a canine internal medicine specialist for a second opinion if you have not already done so. I am fortunate enough to have one in my area and it was a god sent. My Maggie was diagnosed with a congenital liver problem. After all testes were completed she was diagnosed with a condition that is controlled by diet and medication instead of surgery. She was given a good prognosis if we followed the instructions. She eats the Royal Canin Hepatic formula and also takes Denamarin daily for the rest of her life. This treatment brought her Alt's from 350 to in the 40's in 3 months. We were fortunate enough to have discovered the problem very early so we could begin treatment before her Alt's went higher. She also will have to be careful with shots and will be given Titers instead of some shots. Also she is not able to use the heartworm medication or the flea control medication. Is you dog on any of that right now? Those medication can affect the liver functions. In the process of this diagnosis I was told that there are two types of shunts, outside being the easiest to treat surgically and the inside shunt being a more complicated as I am sure you already know all of this. I also learned that dogs with liver shunts can live good lives after treatment. So please be optimistic. If you are in the Pennsylvanis area, I can give you the info on the doctor I took Maggie to. Just PM me and I will send you the contact info. Maggie had the blood test, the bile acids test and also the final test the abdominal ultrasound that was the most conclusive. They also did the blood test to determine if there was amonia in her blood. She was then given a course of treatment for the rest of her life.
Please keep us informed and lean on the forum for support and information and please register for the forums that Maddies Mom suggested. You will learn so much.
Chris


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## marbenv

Carole,

So sorry to hear about little LuLu. Take heart from all of these encouraging reports from others that have gone through this. Everyone has given great advice. I used to live in NY and I know that Cornell has excellent veterinary research. I wouldn't hesitate to contact them. Hopefully, you'll get some good advice from specialists now tha the weekend is over. We are praying for you, Lulu and your family.

Marsha:grouphug:


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## Squirt

I'm sorry to hear about your Lulu, and hope you find some good information today.


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## LuvMyHavanese

I am so sorry to hear about Lulu. I pray all will be ok.

I have 3 furbabies & all of us here know how attached one becomes so quickly-so just the though of giving your pup back to the breeder(eeks!)....... it was nice of them to offer though, but i do hope they are able to help with the vet costs. :grouphug:

Does anyone know if they can develop liver shunts later or are they just born with them? Thanks


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## Leslie

Carole,

You and Lulu are in my thoughts and prayers. Please keep us updated on what's happening. I sure hope you're able to find the right specialist for her. The UC Davis extension you told me about (*) is probably the best place to begin.

Huge hugs,
Leslie

* Everyone, Carole and I spoke on the phone Sat. She seemed very encouraged by all of your support and advice. So, keep it up! You're _absolutely the best_ when it comes to helping others through this kind of thing. I know that first-hand!


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## Cosmosmom

It is sometimes hard to get through to U/C but just keep trying ..? Do they have an emergency number .. 
I cannot tell from you avatar where you are located so it is difficult to assess things ..
U/ C Davis allows you to go to their emergency clinic for small animals . Now I was told you had to be referred by your own vet - I later found out this is not necessarily true . Due to nature of your case I think you would qualify but you have to find the right service to get into to as they do have different services .
Cornell is excellent as well .. if you are looking for information .
The one thing I will stress with the U/C system is that because it is a university - your Doctors change as they have to rotate through a service .. 
You have to be on top of everything as every animal they treat is sick . Some of the doctors are more compassionate than others - some are very clinical - it is a teaching facility and you are dealing with students . They are different from a vet in private practice who maybe a little more seasoned ..


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## kimoh

So sorry to hear about Lulu.
I will be keeping you both in my prayers.

Kim


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## mckennasedona

Carole, I'm thinking of LuLu today. I hope she is eating a bit this morning. I'll be hoping you get answers from the specialists today and that they will come up with a plan of action for you.

Susan


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## MaddiesMom

LuvMyHavanese said:


> Does anyone know if they can develop liver shunts later or are they just born with them? Thanks


Shannon- The most common portosystemic shunt is congenital. Less commonly, there are "acquired shunts", but that is usually associated with liver disease. Fortunately for us, smaller dogs tend to get extrahepatic shunts (outside the liver) which are easier to treat. The larger breeds tend to get the intrahepatic shunts inside the liver.

Chris- How wonderful to hear about Maggie's progress! :clap2: Diet and medication can work wonders if you catch things early enough. When I lost my darling Panda, I vowed I'd get a blood test on my next dog every year or every other year. I know I'm paranoid, but if you catch a disease early enough, alot can be done, be it diabetes, kidney, liver, etc. I'm so thrilled for your Maggie. Carole can take heart from stories like this.


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## Lola

MaddiesMom said:


> Shannon- The most common portosystemic shunt is congenital. Less commonly, there are "acquired shunts", but that is usually associated with liver disease. Fortunately for us, smaller dogs tend to get extrahepatic shunts (outside the liver) which are easier to treat. The larger breeds tend to get the intrahepatic shunts inside the liver.
> 
> Chris- How wonderful to hear about Maggie's progress! :clap2: Diet and medication can work wonders if you catch things early enough. When I lost my darling Panda, I vowed I'd get a blood test on my next dog every year or every other year. I know I'm paranoid, but if you catch a disease early enough, alot can be done, be it diabetes, kidney, liver, etc. I'm so thrilled for your Maggie. Carole can take heart from stories like this.


Thanks Jeanne. It was recommended as part of her treatment plan to have the blood studies done at her regular exam just to keep a check on the ALT's. She is gaining quite a bit of weight on the Royal Canin. Not good either. We might have to make and adjustment on her food. 
Carole, I will keep checking back on this thread hoping to hear good news from you. Good luck and you are in my prayers.


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## SMARTY

Carole, I know nothing about Liver shunts so my only help is very positive thoughs, prayers and vibs headed your way. Keep a positive mind set and keep us informed.


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## Lynn

Hi Carole,
I was just checking in this morning to see if you had any knew news on Lulu? How are things going? 

We send you lots of :kiss: :kiss: :hug: Thinking of you today.

Lynn, Casper & Missy


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## juliav

Hi Carole,

Just checking in to see how Lulu and you are doing. We are sending positive thoughts and healing vibes your way.


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## Leslie

Carole,

Wondering how you and Lulu are today?


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## mellowbo

Hi all. I am so blessed to have all your support. Sorry I didn't write yesterday, but I have been so drained.
On Sunday we went to Dexter's Deli for dogs and found a bunch of good stuff. She is chowing down on the Natures Balance veg. kibble! Since we took her off the meat based foods she has really perked up. In fact she is terrorizing all of us, LOL. She never really acted sick but now she's full of it!
I'm not sure what to do because we don't want to over react and cause more problems. Our Vet wants to wait a month and re-do the bile acid to see if the enzyme level lowers by diet. 
I am emailing with Mary Cane and finding out about another blood test the vet can do. The sonagram involves anethesia and we are happy to do that if it is necessary but as you all know it has it's dangers too.
UC Davis has not returned my call. I'm going to call them again today. We live in the San Diego area of So. CA.
So, I guess, since there is no panic, we are going to try to handle this with optomistic caution. I have been on the phone sooo much and I want to thank you all!!!
xxoox


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## Lina

Carole that is such great news! I'm so happy that Lulu seems to be doing well on the vegetable diet and that she has more energy! Maybe surgery won't be necessary in Lulu's case. You are doing very well by Lulu and she is very lucky to have such a good mommy.

Keep us updated! :hug:


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## Laurief

Oh that is wonderful news about LuLu, I am so glad she seems to be responding to the food. Hope she keeps up the good work!! You are such a good mommy!


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## mellowbo

*Lilysplash*......would you PM me with your email address and phone #? Only if you don't mind if I call you. Since your baby is so young and small like my Lulu I would love to talk to you.....where you went, etc. Thanks soooo much.
Carole
xxoox


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## Leslie

Great news about Lulu! I'll continue to keep you both in my prayers


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## mellowbo

OK, now, here's whatcha gotta do guys and gals! When your itty bitty Havanese won't eat you just treat her like a baby, LOL. This morning she had a concoction of oatmeal and cottage cheese and loved it. Tonight I cooked up some macaroni ( *THANKS MISSY, FOR THE PASTA TIP*) and put Neutro enzyme in the water as it boiled. Then later I mixed it with some Hills l/d and she gobbled it all down. It also doesn't hurt that Vinny wants it too. When I let them share a dish, believe me, she gets her fair share. LOL.
Now, I may end up with a dog only 2 inches tall but she will be at least a foot or so wide! I'm going to take her to the vet tomorrow to weigh her.
Thanks all,
Carole
xxoox


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## Lilysplash I

I haven't been on this site very long and want you to know that pictures will come in time. I have a Havanese male who will be a year old in November and we got our new female puppy mid-September. The plan was to take both their pics for the site and then two days later she was sick and then liver shunt surgery. I will wait for her poodle, surgery haircut to grow a bit coupled with the time it will take for me to figure out posting pics  You can tell by the last statement that I am not particularly computer savy. I picked the name Lilysplash I because it is playful and fun like our adorable Havanese friends. I realize it isn't the typical doggie name but it is unique like our Havs. What joy they have brought into our lives! I have enjoyed the posts in the Hav community and will feel more a part I know when you have something to look at on the left!


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## Doggie Nut

Carole, I am so happy to hear that your sweet baby is feeling better.....and that your spirits are higher today! I pray Lulu continues to make a come back!


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## Lynn

Carole, 
I think it is a good thing Lulu is eating so well. I am glad things are better, please keep us posted. 

Hugs and Kisses
Lynn, Casper & Missy


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## Carol

Carole, you and Lulu are both in our thoughts and prayers.


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## Laurief

:whoo: :whoo: LuLu:whoo: :whoo: :whoo: Keep on eating that yummy food.


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## Lola

Carole, I am so glad that Lulu is eating and doing better. Inquire about the Denamarin and other liver support medication when you see your vet. It helps support the liver and to metabolize. Maggie had an ultra sound and I don't think it required anesthesia. They were able to make a definite diagnosis with the ultra sound and blood work.


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## Missy

Carole, I am so lad LuLu is doing so much better and you are keeping your optimism up. this is all great news---please keep us posted and let us know what your vet says.


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## JAEwton

Carole I am so sorry to hear about your baby's health problem. I ran into this problem a lot on the Yorkie board's. Seem's to follow in very small breed's more then large ones. Some very tiny puppies were healed by great vet's so fine one that you can trust that has dealt with this before. Our prayers are with you. 
Judy


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## lfung5

Carole,
I wanted to check in to see how Lulu's doing. Anything new?


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## ECudmore

I AM SO SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR SWEET PUPPY. I ALSO LIVE IN CARLSBAD. 
MY VET IS EXCELLENT ( SHE DISCOVERED AN UNUSUAL GROWTH ON RACQUET AT 14 WEEKS) AND IF YOU NEED TO SEE SOMEONE ELSE FOR ANOTHER OPINION PLEASE CONTACT ME. 
ELAYNE ANSD RACQUET


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## Cosmosmom

My german shorthair required a sonogram and it did not require anesthesia . Not all vets are proficient in doing this so they usually have a traveling specialist who goes to their office once a week .
Places like U/C Davis do it onsite .
It is totally painless and my dog did not even require sedation .. it di not take long either - just had to wait our turn ..
So happy diet is making a difference . It does take time but it sounds like you are on the right track . Yeah !!


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## mellowbo

*Re: LULU* 
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Cheryl* 
_Goodmorning Mellbo. How is LULU doing? Is she eating and gaining weight? We just had Roxie's bile acids tested fasting and 3 hours later after a fatty meal on Friday. It is a long weekend waiting for the results! She is 7 months and weighs 5.8#. Her appeitite is great (especially for treats) and she has a ton of energy. Hopefully she is just little._

_Please update us on how LULU is dong._

Hi Cheryl,
Oh, I know how long those weekends take!! I spent a year waiting for a day once, lol.
Lulu's post bile acid was 67.9. To top it off it was reported as the pre test and the post was reported as 4. We don't know who goofed, the lab or the vet. We were scheduled to have a repeat test done but she seems SO HEALTHY! She is eating well and races around with Vinny to the point of making me tired just watching. We cancelled the repeat test because she has been through enough trama. We are going to wait a while and see how she acts.
Lulu is now up to 5 lbs at 5 months. That is so small. We still don't know what to do.......
PLEASE keep me informed about Roxie. I'm zapping her with good vibes and prayers!!
Carole


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## Beamer

Hi Carole,
Lulus size kind of reminds me off Beamer. Beamer was also 5lbs at 5 months old. At 7 months he was 6.7lbs and he is now 4 days shy of 8 months old and I'd estimate he is very close to 8lbs. (i will take him to the vet for a weigh on the 8th of this month) So not all dogs will gain the the mosy body weight during the 1st few months. In Beamers case he is gaining roughly 1lb per month. when i got him at 14weeks old he was 2.9lbs! When we took him to to the vet at 14weeks old the vet said she doubt'd he would be over 7lbs full grown..lol..

Ryan


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## mellowbo

Hi Ryan,
I remember when I was so worried about Beamer shaking after eating the raw diet and the concern about the liver shunt. Your post is very encouraging for all of us with the "small ones".
I've been in close contact with a breeder in Arizona, Havacasa (Sue Murphy). She is not Lulu's breeder but she has been very patient and kind in helping me walk through Lulu's issues. Here are some things I have learned from her:
1. Many breeders are actually trying to breed a little smaller. Not pocket size, but a little smaller.
2. When we first got Lulu she had one puppy shot. I took her to my vet and he put her on a program of a puppy shot every 2 weeks followed by a rabies shot at 4 months. It was during that time period that she stopped eating and stopped growing. Sue told me that was way too many shots too fast for a Havanese, especially a small one. She also said that was too young for the rabies.....6 months is better. The problem is if they need health papers to travel they need their rabies shots younger. Just not as good when doing it so young.
Also, I had the bile acid test done which was tramatic for her because she had to be force fed for the post test. Poor baby! Now she is eating and happy and I just don't think I should mess with her anymore unless she shows some sign of being ill.
I hope she gets as BIG as Beamer, lol, but if not, that is ok too. As long as she is healthy.
I've changed her name to Popcorn. She looks like a little popcorn ball hopping across the floor, heehee.
THANKS SO MUCH, ALL OF YOU, FOR READING AND REPLYING TO MY POSTS!! I feel like I have made some real good friends here. Please keep posting!
Love and God Bless...
Carole
xxoox


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## Laurief

Carole, I am so happy to hear that "popcorn" is doing better. We keep sending good thoughts and kisses to her!!


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## lfung5

Carole,
Great to hear Popcorn is still doing well. 

Yes, that's true about a lot of breeders trying to breed a bit smaller. Maybe that's why there are so many small ones these days. Keep us posted.


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## Lilysplash I

Carole,
So glad to hear that Popcorn is doing well. I did not say on my first reply to your situation that our Sadie's bile acid test was 215 and normal is 15 so there was a vast difference between her symptoms and Popcorn's. Our girl was very sick, often lethargic, spacey, unsteady at times and paced frequently when uncomfortable. It was a very scary & unsettling three weeks until she was finally diagnosed properly. It started with a severe bladder infection that when cleared up revealed the ammonia crystals, the bile acid test and then surgery on October 1. Sadie does everything a normal dog does now. She is happy and active and wrestles and plays with her brother, Stuey (Stuart Little). She will be off the low protein diet and meds the end of November. YEAH!


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## mellowbo

Lilysplash I said:


> Carole,
> So glad to hear that Popcorn is doing well. I did not say on my first reply to your situation that our Sadie's bile acid test was 215 and normal is 15 so there was a vast difference between her symptoms and Popcorn's. Our girl was very sick, often lethargic, spacey, unsteady at times and paced frequently when uncomfortable. It was a very scary & unsettling three weeks until she was finally diagnosed properly. It started with a severe bladder infection that when cleared up revealed the ammonia crystals, the bile acid test and then surgery on October 1. Sadie does everything a normal dog does now. She is happy and active and wrestles and plays with her brother, Stuey (Stuart Little). She will be off the low protein diet and meds the end of November. YEAH!


I am so happy to hear how well Sadie is doing!! She is such a trooper and little sweetie! How old was she when she got sick? You all must have been terrified with those symptoms. PLEASE keep me up to date on how she is doing.
xxoox


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## Lilysplash I

She was 9 weeks old and had her surgery at 12 weeks. The timing is one of those things that is in God's hands as her symptoms showed up two days AFTER bringing her home from the breeder. It started with a severe bladder infection. We had a very reputable breeder who did all the right things and has been very supportive. If she would have known her true diagnosis, congenital liver shunt, before we got her, she would probably have been put down. She was 3.7 #'s on Oct. 1st when she had her surgery. As of today, she is 6.1#


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## mellowbo

Wow, Sadie was really a baby! It's amazing how much weight she has gained in a month. What a trooper she is!! Sadie is very blessed to have you as a mom. She is also very lucky she wasn't still with the breeder! My breeder wanted me to bring Popcorn back but I was afraid of the same thing......not that I could have returned her anyway.....she is my blessing!
xxoox


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## Lilysplash I

It does sound bad but it is understandable. Surgery is expensive and the results cannot be guaranteed.


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## mellowbo

Ta da.....drum roll....Popcorn was 5 lbs today at vet!!!


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## Laurief

:whoo::whoo::whoo: WAY TO GO POPCORN!!!:whoo::whoo::whoo:


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## Lina

How exciting! Popcorn sounds like she is doing very well! :whoo:


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## Poornima

Wish Popcorn continued progress and good health!


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## marjrc

Carole, I am so sorry that I hadn't seen this thread until today! I'm terribly behind in the forum posts, but wanted to at least take the time to read all about your baby, Lulu/Popcorn. What a relief to get to the more positive, encouraging posts near the end!! Wooooohoooooo!!  :whoo:

She sounds like she's on the mend and as you say, it was an awful lot of vaccines for a pup that young, but hopefully that's all in the past now and she's overcome that stuff. I am very happy with your latest news. Keeping fingers crossed it goes well for years to come!


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## mellowbo

:frusty: argghh! I just don't know what to do!! I took Popcorn to a another specialist today and he wants me to repeat the blood test. So....tomorrow we are going to do another bile acid. It is so hard to not know what to do........


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## Lola

mellowbo said:


> :frusty: argghh! I just don't know what to do!! I took Popcorn to a another specialist today and he wants me to repeat the blood test. So....tomorrow we are going to do another bile acid. It is so hard to not know what to do........


It is probably good to do the testing again since some time has past. It is also good to have gotten a second opinion. Will you also be getting the Alt's with that blood test. I don't know which blood test that is. I am sure you can obtain all the test results that you have from your other doctor. It might be that the new specialists can get his information from the old test and it may not be necessary to repeat some of the old tests. Good luck. Please keep us informed.


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## Laurief

I agree that it might not be a bad thing to rerun the test, just to be sure!! Good luck and let us know how popcorn does!!


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## Cheryl

Mellowbo, keep us posted on the new results. Let me know if you need the number for UC Davis, but my vet got me in sooner than I could have gotten on my own. (He called for me.)


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## Lina

Good luck with Popcorn's second test! I'm sure it's for the best to get repeat results and it will also give you peace of mind. :hug:


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## Leslie

Carole,

If she were mine I'd have the tests done again just to be sure. It probably won't be that big of a deal now that she's eating well. Besides, you can't put a price on peace of mind


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## maria v

*liver shunt*

My heart goes out to you!!, I know how painful this should be .
Will pray for you and your puppy
Maria V


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## MaddiesMom

havashadow said:


> Carole,
> 
> If she were mine I'd have the tests done again just to be sure. It probably won't be that big of a deal now that she's eating well. Besides, you can't put a price on peace of mind


I agree. The test will give the specialist some valuable information, and if Popcorn is eating well, she may very well gobble down the higher fat meal. We'll all keep positive thoughts for you and Popcorn!


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## casperkeep

Popcorn is in our thoughts and prayers!!! Please let us know how things are going for you guys!!!!


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## Cosmosmom

I was given a recommended shot schedule by Cosmos breeder . it warned me of possible side effects .. I do not think it is a problem them not having their rabies until they are a year old . I think you can now get a letter from the vet explaining why the dog has not had his rabies as yet .
There is no doubt small dogs are being over vaccinated .. it seems ludicrious that a 15lb dog is given the same dosage as a 60lb dog . When children are medicated or given anesthesia (not vaccinated however ) it is based on their weight .
There have been other threads about vaccination and it is a continuing debate as to what type of vaccine at what age and how often ..
I still swear it is the rabies vaccine that made my German shorthair so sick . He was vaccinated far too early . Here I was trying to be a conscientious pet owner and in those days you had to do as you were told .
Now I am much more proactive and I am not afraid to express my opinion after I had done the research .After all we are the ones who have to deal with the consequences and no one wants to see their little one have an adverse reaction .
I am still not convince of the source and purity of the vaccines either .


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## Cosmosmom

When my German shorthair was so sick I got the same thing all the time - we have to repeat the blood tests . Finally I said no to one vet as he had just had his blood taken 3 days before and it was so traumatic to him .. He was a good soul but you could see he was fed up .
He had even gone for acupunture god bless him .. 
Finally I had a vet who was more compassionate and understanding and who treated on symptoms and did a sonogram .
This was new of the most stressful times of my life as the previous vet indicated I was being neglectful . She HAD ME IN TEARS BUT I STOOD MY GROUND !!
I think it was all about the money ..


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## Cheryl

Mellowbo, how did the testing go today? Was it as tramatic as the last time?


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## mellowbo

eace: :brushteeth: ound: :israel:

*TAA DAA.........DRUM ROLL*

*Popcorn's bile acid test yesterday came out normal!! The vet just called with the results. Pre test: normal is less than 7.0, hers was 3.1. Post: normal is less than 15, hers was 4.7.*

*I am convinced that the shots messed her up. She had her first shot at the breeders. Her second one was 2 weeks later at my vets. Then every 2 weeks. Finally at 16 weeks she had her rabies shot. From about the 3rd puppy shot until a few weeks after the rabies shot she did not gain weight. It was soon after the rabies shot that we did the first bile acid test because she wasn't gaining weight. Her results at that time were 67.9. Since then she started eating better and gaining weight. She always acted fine.*
*3 breeders have told me that havanese don't always handle the shots well, especially the rabies. AND...especially so young.*
*Anyway......cheers!!!! and God Bless you all for hanging in there with me!!!!*
*xxoox*
*Carole*


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## Beamer

Thats great news!! 

So its popcorn now for real?? no more lulu?

Ryan


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## whitBmom

Phew!! What a relief!! I am so happy to hear that Popcorn is A-Okay!! :cheer2: Hugs to you :grouphug:


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## ama0722

Carole,
That is great news!!!

Amanda


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## Cosmosmom

I agree - it is the shots .. 
My breeder recommended delaying them as long as possible especially the rabies ..
Not Asta's breeder but Cosmos breeder sent me a handout about diet and vaccinations .. 
It was very helpful to me as asta became ill after a booster rabies ..


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## Laurief

Oh my gosh, what a relief!!! And you didnt want to get the second test. YOu must be so relieved!!! Keep up the good work popcorn!!!


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## mellowbo

Beamer said:


> Thats great news!!
> 
> So its popcorn now for real?? no more lulu?
> 
> Ryan


 Yeah Ryan,
She looks like a little ball of popcorn hopping around on the floor, lol


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## Cosmosmom

Oh Yes Duh - I got preachy and :biggrin1: on my soapbox again ..
That is such wonderful news I am so happy for you .. What a relief for you and your family .. to know his results are now normal !!
Yeah !!


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## Havtahava

Carole, I'm so glad to see the good news with Popcorn's test! Yea!


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## Lina

Carole, wonderful news about Popcorn! Make sure to give her extra belly rubs for being so patient with all her tests!


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## MaddiesMom

Carole- *GREAT* news about Popcorn! I'm sure you are so relieved. Give her extra hugs and kisses tonight from all of us!


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## good buddy

:whoo: Yippee!! :cheer2: I'm so happy for you! I wish all this HAvies on our forum got such good news! I hope lots of the new mommies and daddies are reading this and understand that they need to space out their new babies vaccines! I love the new name popcorn.  I bet she's adorable popping all around on the floor!


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## juliav

Carole,

Great news about Popcorn. :whoo:
Now to celebrate we need new pictures of the happy and healthy girl. :biggrin1:


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## mellowbo

Cosmosmom said:


> Oh Yes Duh - I got preachy and :biggrin1: on my soapbox again ..
> That is such wonderful news I am so happy for you .. What a relief for you and your family .. to know his results are now normal !!
> Yeah !!


No, no, stay on your soapbox! You are so right and everyone needs to hear this!



Laurief said:


> Oh my gosh, what a relief!!! And you didnt want to get the second test. YOu must be so relieved!!! Keep up the good work popcorn!!!


I know!! To think I almost didn't do the second test because I didn't want to tramatize her again from the forced feeding! (She wouldn't eat on her own). I feel so blessed!



good buddy said:


> :whoo: Yippee!! :cheer2: I'm so happy for you! I wish all this HAvies on our forum got such good news! I hope lots of the new mommies and daddies are reading this and understand that they need to space out their new babies vaccines! I love the new name popcorn.  I bet she's adorable popping all around on the floor!


Absolutely! New puppy owners need to beware of the shots. Vinny, our GIANT havanese wasn't effected by the same shot routine. However, who knows which one will be. I hope everyone errors on the side of caution!


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## mckennasedona

Carole,
Great news about Popcorn!! I can imagine how very relieved and happy you are! 

Susan


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## irnfit

So glad Popcorn is OK! :whoo:


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## Paige

Great News..:whoo::bounce::clap2::cheer2::yo::thumb::dance::tea::rockon:opcorn:


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## Lola

Great news about Popcorn!!!! I am so glad that everything is all right!!!!!:clap2::clap2:


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## maryam187

Carole, I kept avoiding this thread cause I didn't want to see any bad news. And luckily today I finally looked and TADA: *Popcorn is healed :cheer2:*


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## Leslie

Carole~ As I told you in my email...This is the best news! I'm so relieved for you and precious little Popcorn.

I hope to see you at the playdate!


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## kimoh

Great news about popcorn!!!
I am so happy for you both.

Kim


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## marjrc

Great news, Carole!!!!! I am SO happy to hear that all is normal. I think it's so very important for people to know Popcorn's story because maybe some think there is something seriously wrong with the pup's liver, but it might just be effects of the vaccines. Always good to get a 2nd opinion! You did the right thing all the way. You're such a good mom!


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## Lilysplash I

Wonderful news, Carole!!! This post will be helpful in so many ways to those whose dogs may really have a liver shunt and a caution to others who think they might.


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## storybookstory

mellowbo said:


> Absolutely! New puppy owners need to beware of the shots. Vinny, our GIANT havanese wasn't effected by the same shot routine. However, who knows which one will be. I hope everyone errors on the side of caution!


Speaking as a new puppy owner - I have a question.

My puppy got his shots at 6, 9 , and 12 wks from the breeder. My vet now says that he must have his last set at 16 wks for it to be effective. So she wants him to have yet another set of shots. I know she may really believe this, but I also know that vet and medical doctors get a lot of their information from the pharma companies selling the vaccines and medicines. I just don't feel good about this. Also, I want to delay rabies until 6 months - I've read a few people saying this is better for a small breed dog. Any comments?

Thanks -

Sally


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## lfung5

I read a great book, NO MORE VACCINES. I think that's the name. If I still have it, I can mail it to you. I also have a ton of information on vaccines. If you PM me, I would gladly forward you what I have. I do not over vaccinated. You will get both sides, but read as much as you can and form your own opinion. Vets make a ton of money on vaccines. I also never give combo shots. Let me know if you want some of the articles I have.


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## Roe

Carole 
So sorry to hear about LuLu. I do not know anything about this either. IF it were me I guess I would just read up and study up as much as I could about liver shunts and try and talk with as many people here who know anything about them.
Has you doctor given you any advice? I would imagine surgery would be dangerous. 
I am here for any support you need.

Roe


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## Cosmosmom

I am very careful about the shots as well . I changed vets because of it .. I waited longer this time and I think it was the right choice .. My dogs had the last of their vaccinations in Nov .. Cosmo had his rabies at over a year . The only reason I did it then was the vet said it was the law and I was taking a risk as we travel down to the desert . Also it put her liscense in jeopardy to wait much longer ... She said in the future we could do titers and did not have a problem with it .. She felt she was in compliance with the law .
Just an FYI 
Since I have been in the desert I have learned that Parvo is very prevalent down here . The incidence rate is higher right now than ever before . I have not seen anyone post from here except me . but I am just putting the inforamtion out there just in case some people are thinking of coming down for a weekend visit or a longer vacation .
Also the coyotes are very hungry these year and more dogs are being lost . Part of the reason is that some of the gated communities have exterminated the rabbits and there is no food for the coyotes .. 
Also I do not know if anyone was a ware of this but the dog that was the winner of the indio dog show was stolen . it was a chow and he was taken from their car while they were having breakfast .. Just an FYI for people that may show down here next year ..


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## lfung5

Wow that scary about the coyotes and dog thieves. I saw a documentary on dog napping. It's called, Dealing Dogs. I have a 6 foot stockade gate with locks too. I am pretty over protective!


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## mellowbo

storybookstory said:


> Speaking as a new puppy owner - I have a question.
> 
> My puppy got his shots at 6, 9 , and 12 wks from the breeder. My vet now says that he must have his last set at 16 wks for it to be effective. So she wants him to have yet another set of shots. I know she may really believe this, but I also know that vet and medical doctors get a lot of their information from the pharma companies selling the vaccines and medicines. I just don't feel good about this. Also, I want to delay rabies until 6 months - I've read a few people saying this is better for a small breed dog. Any comments?
> 
> Thanks -
> 
> Sally


Sally,
You should be very leary of the shots. Read Linda Fungs post as she and I agree on this. I would delay the rabies as long as you can. When I got the card from the license saying it was time to get Vinny his rabies booster I threw it away! When is the last time we have heard of rabies? Maybe if we traveled alot or camped a lot and left the dogs unattended, but otherwise??? I think you should read as much as you can and make your own decision. 
Lulu (Popcorn) is fine now and she has grown to 6 lbs, but I'm sure that the puppy shots and the rabies shot so young was what cause all her puppy troubles!


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## mellowbo

Roe said:


> Carole
> So sorry to hear about LuLu. I do not know anything about this either. IF it were me I guess I would just read up and study up as much as I could about liver shunts and try and talk with as many people here who know anything about them.
> Has you doctor given you any advice? I would imagine surgery would be dangerous.
> I am here for any support you need.
> 
> Roe


Roe, It has been determined that she doesn't have a liver shunt after all, thank God!
xxoox


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## mellowbo

Cosmosmom said:


> I am very careful about the shots as well . I changed vets because of it .. I waited longer this time and I think it was the right choice .. My dogs had the last of their vaccinations in Nov .. Cosmo had his rabies at over a year . The only reason I did it then was the vet said it was the law and I was taking a risk as we travel down to the desert . Also it put her liscense in jeopardy to wait much longer ... She said in the future we could do titers and did not have a problem with it .. She felt she was in compliance with the law .
> Just an FYI
> Since I have been in the desert I have learned that Parvo is very prevalent down here . The incidence rate is higher right now than ever before . I have not seen anyone post from here except me . but I am just putting the inforamtion out there just in case some people are thinking of coming down for a weekend visit or a longer vacation .
> Also the coyotes are very hungry these year and more dogs are being
> lost . Part of the reason is that some of the gated communities have exterminated the rabbits and there is no food for the coyotes ..
> Also I do not know if anyone was a ware of this but the dog that was the winner of the indio dog show was stolen . it was a chow and he was taken from their car while they were having breakfast .. Just an FYI for people that may show down here next year ..


Wow, thanks for the info. We have coyotes around our house too and I will not let my dogs out unless I am right by their sides. Even then, I read where someone was standing next to their small dog in their own driveway and a coyote walked right up and snatched the dog anyway....


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## Moko

Also I do not know if anyone was a ware of this but the dog that was the winner of the indio dog show was stolen . it was a chow and he was taken from their car while they were having breakfast .. Just an FYI for people that may show down here next year ..[/QUOTE]

:jaw: :jaw: :jaw:

The Chow was TAKEN FROM THEIR CAR WHILE THEY WERE HAVING BREAKFAST??!! :frusty: :frusty:

WHAT were these people THINKING?? :brick:


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