# we need YOU!! Sebaceous Adenitis study



## Janizona

Cross posted with permission:
_As you may know, funding for the research project to identify the mode of inheritance and gene or genes associated with Sebaceous Adenitis in the Havanese breed has been approved! We have started to enroll dogs into the study and we need your help. We are looking for dogs of any age with suspected or diagnosed sebaceous adenitis and dogs that are 7 yrs of age or older without sebaceous adenitis.

If you volunteer your dog, you will need to make a vet visit, have 5 ml of blood drawn and have a skin punch biopsy taken. The funding for the study will cover the costs of the vet visit, blood sample and biopsy. In addition, the participating clients will receive $12 for the blood sample and $40 for the skin punch biopsy for each dog enrolled in the study as compensation for your dog's participation.

To apply for enrollment, please complete the attached information sheet and return it to me. I will build a pedigree for your volunteered dog, do pedigree research as it relates to SA to see how closely related your dog is to known SA affected dogs (we need dogs that are closely related and some that are not closely related to SA affected dogs) and I will submit the documentation to Dr Koch and her research team at the U of MN. They will evaluate the information, select the dogs that they want to include in the project and will contact the owners for participation and next steps. Although I will know the dogs that are volunteered for the project, I will not know the dogs that were actually selected to participate. From this point on, it will be totally confidential. Only the project leads at the U of MN will know the identity of the dogs participating in the project.

If you have a dog or dogs that fit the criteria for the study and you are willing to allow them to participate, please complete the attached information form and return it to me. If your dog is symptomatic for SA, PLEASE INDICATE THIS IN THE NOTES SECTION OF THE FORM. We are in desperate need of additional SA affected dogs.(regardless of age) If you have or know of a dog that is or may be SA affected, I encourage you to volunteer this dog for the study. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. You are welcome to call me a 763-213-1498 if you prefer a conversation vs email. Thank you all for your support of this effort and for your willingness to participate. I hope I have the opportunity to work with you.

. . . . .permission to cross-post

MaryEllen Vickery
_

This study is so important to the future of our breed! PLEASE consider participating if you have a dog that meets the criteria. :help:

Any questions, just let me know or contact MaryEllen at [email protected]

You can find more information on SA (sorry it's not been updated yet) at: http://janizonahavanese.com/SA.html
I will be putting the link for the submission form on the website as I'm unable to attach it here. You can also write me direct for it until I get it on my site.

Thank you!:hail:


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## Sheri

What a wonderful study for the betterment of our breed! Tucker doesn't have SA, but we'd be applying if he did. (And, he's only 2-1/2.) I can't help but think that the more that is known about any area of genetics in the havanese, the better it will flow over into other areas to be beneficial, too.


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## Janizona

Thanks Sheri.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone reading or replying to this post. I don't know how to get this message out the the Havanese owners. WE NEED HELP from pet owners of Havs with AND without SA for this study!!


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## Sheri

Not everyone reads the Forum every day, (unlike some rather addicted folks like myself.  ) I'd keep bumping this up every day or so. It seems like there was at least one person I've seen on here whose dog may have had SA, but they don't post often. And, there aren't many whose dogs are 7 years or older, but even those may have missed the request for samples from that age bracket NOT diagnosed with SA.

I hope there are good responses from somewhere...could there be something printed up and handed out at the big Havanese National coming up?


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## Janizona

what does "bumping it up every day" mean? Thank you, I do plan to have a hand out at the National and it will be in the Hotline also. We are posting this everywhere we can!


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## RikiDaisyDixie

*Is it painful?*

Our Daisy continues to itch despite what we do, it gets worse each year now that she is five. I have shaved her down to the skin to see if she has fleas, and she does not. She has some dry skin close to her rear, probably from constant scratching.

Her eyes do run a lot, but I don't notice a waxy residue in the ear.

Allergy meds aren't working...she eats a raw diet. Could she have it? She has always had a thin coat, almost as if she has no undercoat.


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## Miss Paige

Linda:

Now would be a good time to have her checked-I know ME would really appreciate anyone who is willing to take part in the study.

Pat (humom to)
Miss Paige
Mr Roman
Ms Frannie


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## Sheri

Janet, "bumping it up" means simply adding another Quick Reply to the thread, and often just by inserting one of the Smilies like :bump: . This boosts it up to the top of the posts again, until it eventually works it's way down the list again. Then, after a day or two you can bump it up again.

Linda, I'd sure be checking it out! Poor Daisy! And, how hard for you to have to see her itching all the time. That is SO tiring and stressful for both of you.


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## ama0722

I don't recall any forum dogs having it but you may want to pm the person you were thinking about sheri cause some people don't read just the bumped up topics- some read by category only, go backwards, etc.


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## Sheri

Amanda, I'd PM her if I could remember who it was...I'll do a search and see if I can track her down, but it's been several months since the post I'm thinking about...

Aha, well that was fast!! Here's the one I'm thinking of, Janet may already know of her.

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=5400&highlight=thinning+hair

I'll send her a pm.


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## Janizona

Thanks everyone for chatting on this topic. AManda, they are not just looking for dogs WITH SA but dogs without it also. THose are almost more important. SO if anyone knows of a Havy that is 7 years or older, please ask them to participate!


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## Janizona

The hardest thing about the disease of SA is that the symptoms and age of onset are so variable. My boy Rocket was misdiagnosed for several years before I got him back and had a skin biopsy done. He was diagnosed with allergies and sensitivities to every day things. He had ear infections over and over but wasn't extremely itchy. It does seem that stress makes it flair up for HIM. Dogs can be so very mild that the owner barely notices, to severe and painful. Rocket is very uncomfortable when he's going thru a cycle and if you looked at my website you can see why. He's the black and white boy with very red skin. When he's in "remission" (for lack of a better word) you can see his coat grows back and he's much better. One thing I noticed on several SA dogs that I've met is that the end of their ear leather feels crack and is very tender. I have no idea if that is a classic symptom or not. There just isn't a cut and dried way to tell. Unfortunately with a skin biopsy you must have it done while they are in a cycle or it will come back negative.

I guess I really can't tell you if your girl has it or not. I would suggest you talk to the expert in our breed, Mary Ellen Vickery. I am assisting her with getting dogs into the study and tracking down dogs and owners that have already committed to participating.

As a breeder I would love to be able to run a simple test on my dogs before I breed them to make sure they are not going to produce another puppy with SA. Its a heartbreak for the owner to watch their dog go from gorgeous to scruffy and to sink a bunch of money into trying to find out what is wrong and with treatments.

Oh another thing about Rocket is that when I get him wet, he has such a musty odor about him. Again, I don't know that all dogs have that smell but eeeewwweee he sure does!

Mary Ellen can be reached at [email protected]


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## BeverlyA

Molly & Me was one Forum member who had an SA positive dog but I know there are more, just not any that are really active. Several have talked about symptoms sounding similar and I am always referring them to Janet's website for more information to try and avoid wasting time thinking it's allergies.

I wish I could help out some how with the study but none of my dogs are old enough yet.

We'll keep :bump: this thread so more people can see it. I hope there is information on the study at Nationals.

As I understand it, the odor is a common symptom. 
Beverly


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## Janizona

Thanks Beverly! I will have flyers for the goodie bags and I hope we can get Jim Sivers to talk about it at one of the dinners.


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## Janizona

:bump:


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## BeverlyA

Janet I saw you posted to one of the members who is struggling with an "itchy" dog.

I had suggested to him earlier he read about SA and go to your site but he seems confident it's not SA. I'm not sure where he lives, but I know the vets around my area just aren't familiar with it at all.

It is so important that we do the research now, to try and find out how to stop this disease from becoming a problem for our breed. 

We'll keep spreading the word!
Beverly


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## Janizona

SA can NOT be diagnosed by a vet. It can be suspected or not suspected but absolutely NO VET can say for sure without a biopsy of the skin. The lab looks at the sebaceous glands that are in the skin punch to see if they are affected.


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## Janizona

Here's a picture of a cutie Hav - can anyone tell she has SA??

Yup, she was confirmed with a skin punch. So not all dogs look terrible!


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## Janizona

*Can you please link??*

The page has been updated!

http://www.janizonahavanese.com/SA.html

Attention breeders/owners/anyone with websites!! - Please link to this page! The more links we have the better ranking we will get on searches. We need help from the Havanese community to get this information out.

If you have been breeding over 7 years that means YOU have bred dogs that meet the criteria of being 7 years old. Breeders, please contact all your puppy owners!

Thank you for your help and please cross post over and over again.


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## Janizona

*First hand experience on a skin punch for SA*

Here are some messages on another list about what a bunch biopsy is like for 2 folks that have had it done:

_I have had several dogs tested for SA and all did get a local anesthetic - which made it less painful that a microchip. Two of the dogs had no stitches, all the rest had one stitch - none had more than one. There are always risks for any procedure - from annual shots, to microchips, to this procedure - although I have heard of more complications with annual shots than I have with the skin punch biopsy procedure. Each person has to weigh the risks to the benefits. The benefits of this study could save many dogs the suffering of SA, many owners the heart ache of dealing with it and many breeders the agony of producing it. Is it worth it??? It's up to you.

In an effort to help you know what to expect, this has been my experience:

1. The dog is giving a local anesthetic to avoid any discomfort
2. A small skin sample, about the size of the very tip of your pinky finger, is taken - usually from two different locations - usually at the base of the neck and an area on the back, near the rump.
3. In some cases, the vet applies a stitch - in some cases they don't
4. The dog doesn't cry or complain one bit

MaryEllen_
_________________________________________________
_Years ago, I had 2 of my Havs skin punched for test for SA. Thankfully, all was well. You can search my dogs on OFA to see who was tested. For this study, I will have them punched again, and gladly do so. Anyway, there were no stitches, and there is usually only one punch done in the most likely spot to show SA. My girls didn't care, they went right on with their daily lives, 1 inch equals 2.54 centimeters. So 6 centimeters is around 2 3/8 inches. Now, divide the 2 3/8 by 10 to get the millimeters, and you get less than a quarter inch. It is not an incision, it is a punch biopsy, much like many of us have had done to our cervix (sorry guys) without antibiotics afterwards, and without subsequent problems (and for us humans, not a lot of anesthetic, either). As in the test of the cervix, the answers you get from the test far outweigh any slight discomfort. IMO nona_


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## nanfis

*What is it?*

I am new to the breed I have a 6 mo old puppy who scratches all the time (I cannot find anything) and he has a scab on his penis since i got him that falls off and goes back on the vet knows its not bacteria but thats all we know unless he biopsys it. SO what is SA?


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## Janizona

Congrats on your new puppy! Have you talked to your breeder about the itchy problem?

SA usually shows its ugly head from the age of 2 and up to the age of 10. Here's a page that explains it:
http://janizonahavanese.com/SA.html

I would look into the shampoo you are using and make sure you rinse extra extra well. Condition the coat too. Also look at the food he's eating - is it the same as what your breeder recommends? I'd really look at shampoo and food before anything else, or possibly where you live there are lots of things in bloom. Some dogs scratch out of habit or stress. There are so many reasons but I'd not suspect SA at this age.


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## BeverlyA

:bump:


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## ama0722

Neither of my dogs is over 7 so I can't participate. But I do see my dog's grandpa who has had it done is on offa already 

I have a question- why haven't any of the dogs who haven't passed it been registered on offa or am I looking wrong? I looked to see how often it is found and it appears never.

http://offa.org/results.html?num=&registrar=&namecontains=N&part=&breed[]=HAV&breedlist=ALL&variety[]=&sex=&birthday_start_month=&birthday_start_year=&birthday_end_month=&birthday_end_year=&birthday=&regand=N&regcode[]=GSA&regcode[]=SA&rptdte_start_month=&rptdte_start_year=&rptdte_end_month=&rptdte_end_year=&rptdte=&submit=Begin+Search


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## peluitohavanese

That is a great question. I am aware of at least 14 dogs from 2 different breeders, and I am wondering why, if we are all for open disclosure and accurate info and stats, they aren't on offa.org.


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## peluitohavanese

:bump: 

I'd love a reply to this question. I think it's a great one.


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## Janizona

I'm not sure what question you want answered but I'm sure I don't have it. My GUESS is that to register with OFA you have to use their lab. The 2 pups that we have produced with SA are not up there because the owners of the dogs did the test and didn't think about OFA - they are pet owners. I don't know any way to go back and list them now. 

So that is what I think....


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## peluitohavanese

Actually you don't have to use their lab. They have the test done and send them in to OFA. I just feel that this is a serious enough issue that all affected dogs (both pet and show/breeding) should have results posted on OFA. It should be the breeder's responsibility to make sure the OFA results of pet affected dogs are posted so that we have a clear idea of how prevalent and serious this is or isn't in our breed.


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## Janizona

Really? We all know we can't MAKE pet owners do anything! So no, It isn't my responsibility to make sure their dogs results are posted on OFA. I can only ask the owners to do it. It is my responsibility to register my OWN dogs and that I do. But the big picture would be if everyone did a biopsy on all their dogs. We can't just look at one pup in a litter, we'd need both parents and all siblings. Who does that?? Its not just the failures that need to be on OFA but the whole gene pool. That's when you have the information to make breeding decisions. Since no one that I know of does that, I guess finding a test is going to be the cure. 

Luckily my pup owners have all stepped up to the plate and will be in the study to find a test for this. That is much more important to me. 

If you or anyone would like to know what dogs I have that are affected I'd be happy to tell you. I have no secrets, I tell no lies.


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## peluitohavanese

Janet,
I already know what dogs are affected. That's not the point I was trying to make. Mary Ellen's pedigree database has them in it, so I don't understand how come they aren't in OFA for full disclosure. That's all. Even if they aren't there so that we can see who they are, I believe you can report the affecteds and they get included in the stats. It would be awesome if all breeders submitted all health test results - passing OR failing. I find it interesting that a few who tested and came back as not affected quickly had their passing results posted to OFA, but we don't see a single one of the affected dogs on there. I'm sorry, but IF I had a dog that I placed as a pet and it came to my attention that it was diagnosed as SA positive, it WOULD be posted on OFA, and I'd make sure that it got there. We have failing hips, elbows, patellas, etc, so why not SA?


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## Janizona

Ahhh, in a perfect world. Unfortunately according to Carol at OFA, there is no way to submit results unless you are the registered owner. I can't even submit it for stats. Also, according to Carol, we have to use their labs. She sent me an updated lab list. So even if I had the owners permission, the dog would have to get a new biopsy done with an OFA lab.

The good news is that once we have a test for SA, it won't really matter!! We can eliminate it completely. AWESOME. :clap2:

I am so proud of my puppy owners! I have submitted over 20 participants over the last few days for the study. I only have a few litters that are 7 to 10 years old and that has been the challenge in getting more submissions. But I'm working hard to get 100% participation from my pup owners and we are getting there! :tea:


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## Havtahava

Thanks for spreading the news Janet. I sure appreciate all you do in regard to health testing for the breed.


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## karin117

This is a very, very important study...so I do a ...:bump:


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## karin117

AND :bump: again!


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## Janizona

Thanks for the bumps! I hope to post an update in the next day or two!


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## Janizona

*Exciting News!*

_*I know many of you have been anxious to hear an update on the SA project. Here is some information about where we are with the study!!*_

We have submitted documentation for 24 dogs that are affected (confirmed by a biopsy) or have symptoms of SA but have not yet had the biopsy (some of those may ultimately show they are not affected).

We have submitted 32 unaffected/non-symptomatic dogs for the study - but several are too young so may not be selected to participate

We have at least 25 more to review, build pedigrees and complete documentation before it can be sent to the Research Team.

We do not know how many have been sent directly to Dr. Koch.

Not every dog that is submitted will be chosen for this study. The research team will evaluate the pedigree and choose dogs based upon their needs in various groupings.

This is what we still need:

1. Several more dogs that are confirmed as SA affected or have symptoms but have not yet been confirmed by skin punch biopsy. Here is the opportunity for those owners to get their dogs tested at not cost to them.

2. Many more dogs that are 7 yrs old and not related or are very distantly related to a known SA affected dog. The problem with this group is that most people don't know how closely related their dog is.

We have had a wonderful response to our request for dogs to be volunteered but we need to keep working hard to get the rest of the dogs submitted. If you know of a breeder that has been around for more than 8 years, PLEASE encourage them to participate. Send an email, make a call. Not everyone is on the yahoo groups and won't hear this message unless YOU help!

Cross posting encouraged! 
:whoo:


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## Janizona

I've had a few folks write and say they can't afford to help right now.

*THERE IS NO COST TO PARTICIPATE*

To clarify - this is what happens:

You submit paperwork for a dog. That paperwork goes to the researchers. They basically have 3 categories they need dogs for:

Affected

Not affected but related

Not affected and not related

Of those 3 categories, they need a certain number of dogs for each. They will pick who they think will benefit the research the best.

Once they pick the dogs they want to use, they will contact the owner and talk with them about where to go for the test. There is NO COST to you. ZERO. The researchers will contact vets in the general area of the dogs they want to use to see if they can get free or reduced rates. That of course will factor into the decision as to which dogs they choose for the study. Anyway there will be no cost to you if you are picked. The dollar amount you will be given ($12 for blood and $40 for punch) is just to compensate your time. Personally I will refuse to accept the money; I just want them to use it somewhere else.

I hope this helps get more of you to submit!! =))


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## Melissa Miller

Bumping this for Janet.


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## ivyagogo

I wish I could help you, but am glad that I can't!


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## Janizona

Please remember that we need UNaffected dogs over 7 for the study also, so if you know anyone - if your breeder has been around for a while - if you have an older Hav...then you can help by spreading the word.

Thank you so much.


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## Redorr

Janet - this is the first time I have read this - and I believe Lola may have this condition as reflected in her ears and eyes. She has no coat symptoms or itching. But her eyes have always weeped, and she has chronic dirty, waxy build up in one ear. I will submit the paperwork. Lola is two.


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## Janizona

*September SA study update*

Good morning fellow HavaLovers! We have an update for you on the SA study.

146 dogs have been volunteered to participate - (THANK YOU ALL!)- broken down as follows:

19 were not submitted to the Research Team because they were not eligible (too young, deceased, foreign, etc)

18 SA affected dogs (biopsy confirming SA was provided)

13 dogs with SA symptoms but no biopsy

23 non-symptomatic dogs that are unrelated to an SA affected dog (control group)

45 non-symptomatic dogs that are somewhat related to an SA affected dog

28 non-symptomatic dogs that are closely related to an SA affected dog (sire, dam, offspring or sibling)

Most of the dogs that are local to MN have been contacted to arrange for the biopsy and blood sample procedures to be done at the U of MN. Some of the non-local (to MN) have been contacted but it may take several weeks to complete all the contacts and make arrangements for their procedures to be completed. Dermatologists in the areas where the volunteered dogs live are being contacted to see if they will provide the procedures at no charge or for a reduced fee. This will determine the specific number of dogs that can be enrolled in this phase of the project. If there is sufficient interest (evidenced by the number of dogs being volunteered) and productive progress has been made by July 2010, funding will be made available to allow more volunteered dogs to be enrolled in Phase II of the project.

We would like to continue to receive Owner Information forms from those who would still like to participate but have not yet submitted their dog - especially if your dog has been diagnosed or has SA symptoms. The participation of you and your dog could prove to be very valuable to this important research. If you would like to volunteer your dog, please forward your completed form to Mary Ellen at [email protected] or directly to Dr. Koch at [email protected]

Thank you to everyone that has supported this very important research. :tea:


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## Sheri

I've been wondering how this was progressing. Thanks for the update.


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## Janizona

:bump:

For anyone that might have missed this thread.


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## Janizona

*SA study update October '09*

Thank you to everyone that has volunteered!! Contact me for the form if you'd like to submit a dog.

Janet Hicks

Please feel free to cross post this update from Mary Ellen.

_______________________________________

I just wanted to give you an update on the dogs volunteered for the project. Although enrollment for this phase of the project is rolling to an end, we are continuing to accept volunteered dogs for the next phase, to begin in July 2010. We would like to have our list already compiled so we can hit the ground running! Here are the stats so far:

23 affected
14 symptomatic but not confirmed affected 
23 not related to an affected dog
68 related to an affected dog
28 unaffected siblings to an affected dog
28 not eligible for this phase of the project (too young, deceased, foreign or unable to locate)

184 total

I am overwhelmed with the enthusiasm and cooperation of the owners / breeders who have chosen to become involved in this project. If this project is successful, we owe it ALL to them! :tea:

Dr Koch hasn't contacted everyone yet and probably won't contact everyone until after the first of the year. Some won't be contacted until the start of Phase 2 (after 7/2010). I am not privy to who she has or has not contacted but I know it is taking longer than we had hoped. There is a lot of ground work to do and that is why we would like to have much of that done before the start of Phase 2.

------------------------------------------------------


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## luchetel

I just found this thread as i was looking for information about dark brown/black wax in ears. Jacson, the little one has quite a bit of it and I was trying to find out more information. He alsoo has weepy eyes. Other then that, he seems fine. I am now nervous that these two symptoms are related, as opposed to being just, weepy tear stains, and some type of ear infection. I dont want to panic, but I guess I should take him in to the vet to at least have his ears looked at instead of trying to treat it myself with the ear solutions that I have from Parker when he had an infection. (It is the 2 solutions that loosen the ear wax and then flus it out, of course using cotton balls to assist with the process):bump::Cry: He does not have any other symptoms- his coat is full and thick, and the edges of his ears are fine. Anyting else I should look for or as the vet?
Thanks!
Lynn


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## DanielBMe

After reading what the symptoms can be I'm still a little unsure of a few things. 

After reading this thread I almost got a little scared for my Bogart. He itches and all 4 paws/legs are red and losing hair. No ear infections, weepy eyes etc. Now I suspect airborne allergies and in fact in the last week or so him and Brando have been scratching far less, almost none and no chewing on their paws, however Bogart still has hair loss and reddish pink paws/legs. Allergy season is pretty much now over here in Toronto. 

When I took Bogart to the determatalogist about 5 weeks ago he did find some scaling on Bogart's skin on his paw. He did mention an immune disorder but also indicated Bogart had no other symptoms. He thought it may be related to his allergies or some other mild infection. I had to give Bogart Revolution at 0,2 and 6 weeks to clear that up as well as a medicated shampoo and antiseptic which I had to use twice a week. Overall his paws are better, just a little reddish pinkish in colour.

I guess I'll have to wait a few weeks to see if his colour goes back to normal and hair starts to grow back, otherwise I may have to get a skin punch.


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## LochTess

Hi,

I'm owned by Ricky who is 9 years old and read about the study and the need for Hav's 7-older who did and didn't have SA. I didn't think Ricky had SA but after getting the biopsy
report it turns out he does:-(

I just want to thank Mary Ellen and all in this forum for putting this information out there!!


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## Sheri

Tess, since you didn't think Ricky even had SA, does this information change anything for you? Like, did you have unexplained health issues going on with him? Or will you need to do supplements for him...? What effect does this info have for you?


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## LochTess

Sheri,

It's funny because when I signed Ricky up for the study I never heard of SA and nothing was going on except some flaking on the top of his head that we didn't think was related... Before he was approved for the study he developed an infection around his mouth. The vet thought it was "doggie acne" and 2 antibiotics were tried without success. Ricky was then approved for the study and a biopsy was taken of that area, the rest is history....

Now I need to take a crash course in SA and try to learn as much as I can so we can help control this nasty disease...

We ordered Douxo Seborrhea shampoo, Micro-emulsion Spray and I see oil bathes in Ricky's future. I also found a Yahoo SA group-http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/SA_Addisons/

Ricky eats a raw meat diet with Wysong's Call Of The Wild supplements and fish oil & Glucosamine & Chondroitin daily but he may need more vitamin E&A.

I guess it one step at a time...

Sorry for the long post....


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## Sheri

Well, it's a blessing that you stumbled onto the answer before Ricky has been facing many baffling trials. Hopefully you'll be able to control it and hold it at bay. Thanks for sharing.


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## BeverlyA

Tess,

I'm glad you haven't had any worse symptoms than you have had. I know that Mary Ellen and Janet will both be able to give you lots of information and advice.
Best of luck!

Beverly


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## LochTess

Thanks Beverly & Sheri!

Yes I've been in contact with Mary Ellen, 
she's so kind and a wealth of information!!


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## nanfis

*Study*

Hi, Mikie is not quite one year old so he is still too young to assist you.
Sorry we cannot assist at this time. Nanc


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## eurobichons

Melissa Miller said:


> Bumping this for Janet.


We will add this to our own site I am sure there will be a few dogs suffering.


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## casey

*tummy problems*

I was on the site the other day when Lola was having tummy problems. I was trying to find out if dogs can have Pepto Bismal - someone wrote they can have Kaopectate (not sure spelling) - my Vet informs me dogs should not have Pepto since it contains aspirin and now the new formula for Kaopectate also has added aspirin.


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## RikiDaisyDixie

*Thyroid*

Riki has started losing coat and getting these bumps that open and then make very dry skin. After more temaril p and steroids, the vet did a blood test and thinks it is a thyroid issue.

Daniel, my dogs like yours have had the best of everything and even washing paws when they come in. I don't know much about thyroid and if it is related to SA but from what I am reading lots of havanese have this and it can be controlled by medication.

Riki is six and going back for more blood tests. Daisy has actually been itching since she was two or three, worse than Riki. But right now Riki is the most symptomatic. Red around his eyes, skin pink and dry...and losing coat in his hind quarters. I'll keep you posted as I learn more...


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

Can you post something describing the symptoms asking if anyone has that problem??


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## KellyA

Just read through this tread. My dog Mozart was 1 in May. He has had runny eyes/bad tear staining since day one, we have had one significant ear infection (treated with a shot, antibiotics by mouth and ear drops) the infection cleared up but he def has brownish 'gunk' that accumulates in his ears and they def have an odor. His coat recently became 'unmanageble' with mats. I thought he was blowing coat so, at the groomers recommendation, we have shaved him (down to 1/2 inch, sniff sniff). The past few days he has been 'bitting' his rear leg and now there is a red/raw patch with hair loss (about the size of a quarter). I have put the 'cone of shame' on him today along with ointment to see if the redness/irritation will go down if he can't lick the area, he is miserable with the cone 

After reading about SA, this sounds like it could be what he has EXCEPT the fact that he is just a little over 1(?too young). I was going to call the vet tomorrow if my 'cone day' did not improve his symptoms. Please help with any/all suggestions...

FYI no change in diet/shampoo and he is actually off tick meds right now(no fleas). The only think that could have 'stressed' him was he spent 2 night with my friend (where he has spent many nights in the past)cause we were out of town.

Thank you for your time and if you think he would be helpful in the study I would be happy to have him participate.

KellyA


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## Janizona

Hi KellyA
Of course I can't guess on what is going on with your boy and I hope your vet can help you find the cure. Be sure to tell him that we do have Sebaceous Adenitis in our breed. This can only be diagnosed by skin biopsy.

One thing you mentioned that caught my eye was stress. That is a major factor in my guy's condition. Stress will make him have an "attack" that takes months to deal with. Being that SA is an autoimmune disease, stress really creates havoc on them.

Best of luck and if you find that he does have SA (or the vet seems to be leaning that way) we'd love to have you in the study. Please write me privately so I can get the paperwork to you. I'm at [email protected].


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## casey

*http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=9514&goto=newpost*

Go directly to the Vet. My Havanese has eyes that run but not enough to be alarmed, but there is an odor to her eyes when they run.


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## KellyA

Thank you for your input, I will hopefully see the vet today.

KellyA


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## KellyA

Saw the vet today, the hot spot looks a little better. I voiced my concern about SA and he said "doesn't look like SA" (but I now know the ONLY way to dx SA is with a skin biopsy) He did check to see if it was some sort of mite(took a swab and looked under a scope-negative)so we are going with either an allergy or trauma (he said he could have scrapped it on a branch or something). Will treat with Gentocin spray(rx) and the 'cone of shame' for a few days but it actually looks better today than it did yesterday so I'm good with that. Thanks for your help, I love having this site to refer to with questions and will keep the SA study at the back of my mind in case we have a recurrence. (quick question though, does the study biopsy need to be done where there is an active 'hot spot' or just on normal skin at any time?)

Thanks again,

KellyA and Mozart


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## BeverlyA

Kelly,

I know you can sign up with the study without actually starting it now. The best thing would be to contact Janet either via email or leave her a private message here on the Forum.

Beverly


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## Janizona

KellyA said:


> (quick question though, does the study biopsy need to be done where there is an active 'hot spot' or just on normal skin at any time?)
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> KellyA and Mozart


If they decide to do the biopsy on Mozart, the instructions say to take it from affected areas so they can look at the sebaceous glands. Have you been to my website to look at all the pictures of affected dogs? Some are very mild and some not so much....


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## klomanchiodo

I am very interested in the work you are conducting for the betterment of the breed. As a researcher (I'm earning my doctorate in science education) I'd like to know more about your protocol and research design. I'd love to read your work. Do you have other studies that you have conducted? Do you plan on publishing the results? How did you become interested in this topic?


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## Janizona

[email protected] said:


> I am very interested in the work you are conducting for the betterment of the breed. As a researcher (I'm earning my doctorate in science education) I'd like to know more about your protocol and research design. I'd love to read your work. Do you have other studies that you have conducted? Do you plan on publishing the results? How did you become interested in this topic?


Hello...? I do not see that you have signed any posts so I don't know what to call you!

I am not a researcher. This study is being conducted by Univ of Minnesota:

_Researchers at the University of Minnesota are seeking samples for AKC Canine Health Foundation Grant 1346-A: Genetic Basis of Sebaceous Adenitis in Dogs. The principal investigator for this project is Sandra Koch, DVM, MS, DACVD.

The aim of this project is to hopefully determine the mode of inheritance of sebaceous adenitis in Havanese dogs with the ultimate goal of providing preliminary data for future studies to identify the gene(s) associated with sebaceous adenitis in dogs_

My role in this study is only to encourage participants to submit their dogs to Dr Koch when she asks me to. If the research team decides they want a specific dog (for what ever reason) then my job is to locate the owner and see if we can get them into the study. I do not have any knowledge of which dogs are actually chosen. I only help them on the front lines.

The results of the study will be made public once it is complete. I don't know how long that will take but I'm sure you realize science takes time. Hopefully before we run out of money, they have an answer.

Please feel free to contact me if I can help answer any other questions at [email protected]


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## kikicon

*SA study still on?*

I have a newly acquired Havanese that may have SA.Six yr old neutered male.. given up for aggression ( haven't seen it yet) Willing to go for a diagnosis. I am working on a Doctorate in Animal Naturopathy and would like to do a case study on him. You can e-mail me for further correspondence... or direct me to further assistance... Thanks.


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## Suzi

I am taking Maddie to a specialist on Monday. Because her skin got all flaky again like dandruff. And her hair is not growing back very fast from the first hair loss. I talked to my Vet about the study and if we participate it will be when I get Maddie spayed in about a month or so. I wanted to have the dermatologist look at her and see what she thinks.


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## HavaneseHannah

What are the signs and symptoms of Sebaceous Adenitis? If it would help the breed then I would like to enroll my dog.


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## Sonya

is there anymore talk about SA? 2011 the last post, I'm trying to find a SA support group, my Phil (4years old) was diagnosed last year,we have been doing everything right and he was looking great,untill he had a couple of vaccinations,and the disease has reared it's ugly head!!!!!grrrrr


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## LochTess

Hi Sonya,

I wish there was... but the only SA group I've seen is a Yahoo group that's been in active for a long time :-(
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/SA_Addisons/

Ricky was diagnosed with SA Jan. 2010 and we're also having a really hard time trying to control this nasty disease!!

We don't get Ricky vaccinated and in the beginning we had him on Cyclosporine that stopped working. It's very frustrating because it seems it can get bad or clear up no matter what we do or don't do...

What are you doing to control Phils SA? Is he on any medication?


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## TilliesMom

you could always start a seperate thread on here as a SA support group?

on a brighter note... Sonya!! Good to 'see' you on the forum again!! Would love to get together sometime and have a play date with the pups if/when you have time and Phil is feeling up to it!


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## Missy

Hi Sonya, the best resource for info and support on this is from the origiional poster
You can contact her through her website.


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## Barbinatl

I've been going crazy trying to figure out what is wrong with my havanese. I came across a website about SB which sounded exactly like what she's got, my vet couldn't seem to name it and said it was allergies as well. I've found some success with some bathing products but I'm interested in this study and would like to participate. She is 10 yrs old, it seems to have gotten worse as she's gotten older. As others have said it seems to subside and then rears its head again. I also believe it has to do with all the shots...I've not had her vaccinated with anything else in the past 2 yrs. I thought it was from the tick meds and quit that as well. Now, on holistic foods...feel I've tried just about everything. Luckily she doesn't seem too irritated by the scabs, probably bothers me more. Her smell is the worst however--so there are more baths!


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## Sonya

> y


Hello, I'm so sorry a out your dog! I hate this disease, I ended up going to UC Davis finally, where they diagnosed it... My dog as sooo textbook, I knew that he had SA before he went in. I do the bath treatments every 2 weeks and he is on that medicine ,it seems to go in cycles. Anyway please contact me if you need more info. He does not get any vaccinations except his rabies and yes, that sends him into a out break.


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## Barbinatl

what is the name of the medicine you are giving?


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## Sonya

Barbinatl said:


> what is the name of the medicine you are giving?


.

Atopica 25 mg , atopica 10 mg once a day

Benadryl, capstar 1/4 once a day......I omega3-6-9 once a day . Food:hypoallergenic wet I get from dr,and dry natural , called nature something.


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## Barbinatl

Oh...I've tried them both as well. I just can't believe the vets aren't familiar with this skin thing! Isn't it strange to you that we can find what it is by looking a little on the internet but our vets don't have any clue? I've just about given up on them. I appreciate seeing here that I'm not the only one with a havanese with this problem, I don't know why I didn't check this site out earlier. Hopefully with enough input from others there may be some sort of help on the way.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor

I do know this disease has been prevalent in Poodles for a long time, standard poodles..you might be able to gain some insight from one of their groups also..Yes, it is amazing what the vets don't seem to know at times. A good vet will however, find out!


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## TilliesMom

Sonya said:


> Hello, I'm so sorry a out your dog! I hate this disease, I ended up going to UC Davis finally, where they diagnosed it... My dog as sooo textbook, I knew that he had SA before he went in. I do the bath treatments every 2 weeks and he is on that medicine ,it seems to go in cycles. Anyway please contact me if you need more info. He does not get any vaccinations except his rabies and yes, that sends him into a out break.


Sonya! I am so glad you have found help and a way to manage this disease!
And remember if you ever want to get together for a playdate, we would LOVE to get to know both of you better!!


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## LochTess

Barbinatl said:


> Oh...I've tried them both as well. I just can't believe the vets aren't familiar with this skin thing! Isn't it strange to you that we can find what it is by looking a little on the internet but our vets don't have any clue? I've just about given up on them. I appreciate seeing here that I'm not the only one with a havanese with this problem, I don't know why I didn't check this site out earlier. Hopefully with enough input from others there may be some sort of help on the way.


I totally understand your frustration with vets and this disease!!
Before Ricky was diagnosed with SA he had a lot of infections around his mouth and we tried many antibiotics without success.When I told my vet at the time about the Havanese study for SA her response was Ricky doesn't have SA. I couldn't believe she said that knowing that the only way to diagnose SA is with a biopsy :-(

There is a Yahoo SA group that has lots of information
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/SA_Addisons/
You may find that what works for one dog might not work for another so it's good to have many options and try different things&#8230;

I do suggest getting a biopsy and diagnosis so you're sure...and maybe consider seeing a dermatologist.


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## Hanna

That is really something worth reading. I always lurk around the forum and read useful posts simultaneously. Keep sharing!


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## HavMe1

Thank you for posting this! I have been absolutely out of my mind crazy trying to figure out what Toby has! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! You have no idea how relieved I am that I can now get him tested and treated. This skin condition appeared at about 1 year of age and has gotten so much worse over the past year and a half. He has alopecia, scaling on his ears and trunk, loss of hair on tail, and a very red and scaly belly. It KILLS me. Every time I pet him I am frustrated. His coat was so fluffy and beautiful as a puppy. The few bits of hair that have grown back on his back are very wire-y and his coat has turned from apricot in some parts to now darker brown - it used to be all pristine black and white. He is one of the worst cases I've seen now that I've had a chance to pursue the pictures on google images. My poor poor love. I hope help is coming. Thank you Havanese Forum! Blessings and Love to you and your angel pups! They are the best dogs in the world and I am heartbroken that Toby is suffering.


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## krandall

Sorry to hear your Toby has been having such a rough time. But I do know a few people with dogs with SA, and they all say that with proper treatment, their dogs have done very well. I hope the same is true for Toby and you!!!


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## Sheri

I, too, hope that your sweet Toby will now be on the road to better health! It is too hard when our little guys are sick!


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