# Full coat in winter



## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

I am letting Sophie's coat grow out for the first time. I love the look! And it's pretty easy to keep up this summer with it being dry out. But I know once the rains come (and we live in a place where it rains a lot) it will be a lot harder. Everytime it gets wet it will start to cord and mat. Right now I comb her out just about every day for about 20-30 minutes. We go for about an hour walk/run every day so this fall on she will be getting wet often. 

Any tips on keeping a full coat brushed out during the wet months? She's so good but I don't want to put her through long drying and grooming sessions every day, that just wouldn't be fun for her. I have a rain coat for her but it's hard to shove her fuzzy legs through the holes. Anyone use a full body rain coat and can you recommend one easy to get on over the coat and also allows for the full havanes run range of motion? Or any other winter tips?


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

I too am interested in any grooming tips. I live in Florida and it rains just about every day During the rainy season. My pup is still young so we don’t have much hair yet. I probably will always keep him in a longer puppy cut because of the heat and humidity but I agree that the long coat looks lovely.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Suzi Bowden is a member of this forum and makes coats. You might want to check out her Etsy shop.
https://www.etsy.com/shop/BOWWOWSdo...ppNSnvLsmxGm6GeUbrgR65YtcDmFcugdvW-uZlMT4gh4M


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Hi Dee Dee - sure hope you get some answers as I'm in the same position with Willow. She hasn't had a trim in about one year. I'm loving the look and also find that it's not as hard to keep combed as I thought it would. I was visualizing what she would be like out in the wet snow we sometimes get. She got snowballs on her legs with a short coat. Can't imagine what a long coat will be like!


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

i'll bet willow is so pretty with her longer coat too! It sure changes their look. The short cut is adorable, the longer coat is beautiful! 

I know even with her shorter cut in winter with rain and wet it takes her coat so long to dry enough to be combed out and it curls and starts to cord and mat while it's drying. So it will be interesting to see how long we can go this winter with the pretty long coat. LOL. I hope it will work though! 

Wow thank you Diane, Suzi has some super cute things! 

Faith, has anyone warned you about the puppy blowing coat stages? Sophie would be so matted when we woke up in the morning, I'd cut them all out and by evening she would be all matted again! It was awful for a while! But it gets MUCH easier after that.  Many havi's will do that a second time a little older too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi DeeDee, I never did find an acceptable solution for legs. I just keep their bodies dry and deal with the legs. Keeping the hair REALLY well conditioned, and using Ice on Ice while grooming should keep it from matting while drying. All of mine can dry naturally, after towel drying (Shamwows are AMAZING for getting most of the water out) and then a quick comb-out (with more Ice on Ice) is all they need. 

We don't walk that much in the rain, because we don't have as much rainy weather as you. We DO, however, have snow. A whole winter's worth, which gets them JUST as wet! (and you also have the fun of melting off the snowballs!) I had to include a few photos of Sophie's "sister by another mother" for your amusement. LOL!


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Ohh my goooshhh!! PIXEL!! LOL!! Cracking me up. Is her coat still this long? I've been seeing pics of it shorter, I know Kodi's is (he's super cute in his shorter cut). I have not heard of Ice on Ice thanks for the tip! I'll look it up! I do have shammy cloths but I use them to make her cool coats, I will try it for drying her too. (if it's the same thing as Shamwow). Thanks!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Dee Dee said:


> Ohh my goooshhh!! PIXEL!! LOL!! Cracking me up. Is her coat still this long? I've been seeing pics of it shorter, I know Kodi's is (he's super cute in his shorter cut). I have not heard of Ice on Ice thanks for the tip! I'll look it up! I do have shammy cloths but I use them to make her cool coats, I will try it for drying her too. (if it's the same thing as Shamwow). Thanks!!


Shamwows are not the soft leather "shammy" things that people use on cars. These are some synthetic material that sucks up TONS of water. Here's a link to them on Amazon:

https://smile.amazon.com/ShamWow-Or...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

The snow photos are from when Pixel was about a year old. She's been short for a LONG time now! She is, of course, well past blowing coat, and I think her coat would be manageable now. But she's such a little thing. I thinks she's cuter in her short cut. Even though Kodi is cute in his short cut too, I REALLY miss his beautiful coat. I just think that at his age, he deserves to not spend so much time being groomed. This is what Pixel looks like shortly after a hair cut... of course sometimes it's longer!


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Ahhh she is just ADORABLE! That face! <3 
She is super cute in that cut!

I just put the shamwow in my cart thanks for that link!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

This might not work for rain, but for wet legs from snow, I kept a small brush by my door and brushed his legs when I took off his harness. Mostly I did it when he was a puppy and while he was blowing coat. It took less than a minute, but I really do believe it helped prevent mats. I don’t really do it anymore, and I did notice his legs seemed a lot more tangled last year, which is why I think it did work. I still combed him out as usual during regular grooming times. 

I also agree getting a detangling spray (like ice on ice) and misting it when she comes inside would probably help a lot when you go back to groom later in the day. I bet ice on Ice is fantastic in your climate! 

The little coats are so adorable. It would be hard for me to resist if it rained more often here!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I LOVE microfiber towels. Before getting some I was going through so many bath towels. The only thing is I have found they can cause mats if I rub him with it. I like to wrap mine in it and squeeze the excess water out instead.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I LOVE microfiber towels. Before getting some I was going through so many bath towels. The only thing is I have found they can cause mats if I rub him with it. I like to wrap mine in it and squeeze the excess water out instead.


Yes! No rubbing! But Shamwows aren't the same as microfiber either. Microfiber is woven, while this is more like felted. It has no weave to it.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

krandall said:


> All of mine can dry naturally, after towel drying (Shamwows are AMAZING for getting most of the water out) and then a quick comb-out (with more Ice on Ice) is all they need.


Karen - would a 4 pack of these Shamwows be enough to dry a complete wet all over little havanese? I'm thinking like after bath time.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Dee Dee said:


> i'll bet willow is so pretty with her longer coat too! It sure changes their look. The short cut is adorable, the longer coat is beautiful!


You know, what I've noticed is that she is soooooo much softer. Also, the different shades she has in he hair stand out more. I wish I could get a good picture of her.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Karen - would a 4 pack of these Shamwows be enough to dry a complete wet all over little havanese? I'm thinking like after bath time.


You don't even need that many. You just keep wringing it out and soaking more water out of them! That said, I bought one of the "sets" at a fair ("But wait! There's MORE!"  ) and it included one that is SO big that it's absolutely wrap-around towel size for Havanese! 

I use these things for all SORTS of things! They are great!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Dee Dee said:


> i'll bet willow is so pretty with her longer coat too! It sure changes their look. The short cut is adorable, the longer coat is beautiful!
> 
> I know even with her shorter cut in winter with rain and wet it takes her coat so long to dry enough to be combed out and it curls and starts to cord and mat while it's drying. So it will be interesting to see how long we can go this winter with the pretty long coat. LOL. I hope it will work though!
> 
> ...


I kept seeing the term blowing coat and had no idea what it meant until I looked it up. Hopefully it won't last too long. I gave Desi his first bath today and he looked so adorable after he was combed and dry. I should have taken pictures.


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Adorable photos! Havanese are Such good looking dogs.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Faithb said:


> I kept seeing the term blowing coat and had no idea what it meant until I looked it up. Hopefully it won't last too long. I gave Desi his first bath today and he looked so adorable after he was combed and dry. I should have taken pictures.


It's very variable from dog to dog. Kodi's coat is quite profuse, but silky. Blowing coat was manageable, with a lot of work though the worst of it.

Pixel's coat is very, very fine, and she got tons of teeny mats that would slip right between the teeth of a comb. I knew I wasn't going to be showing her, so I decided to cut her down, right around her first birthday. My original thought was to just give the two of us a break in grooming through blowing coat, then let her grow out again. But she's so darned cute in a puppy cut that we've kept her that way.

Panda has a very silky coat with less undercoat than Kodi has. As a result, her coat was VERY manageable, even right through blowing coat. The only time we really struggled with mats was when she went through her first heat, when she need to wear panties. She matted badly under her pants, but even then, I was able to comb them out without too much trouble.

Other Havanese mat so badly that their owners can't keep up with it at all. There is no shame in deciding to cut your puppy down, hopefully BEFORE they get matted too badly. You can always let them grow out again after if you choose.


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Thanks for this advice/information. How old are they usually when they start blowing coats?


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

*Hi Dee Dee!*

Hi Dee Dee, I am also in Washington although quite a ways south from Jackie. Sophie is beautiful! I'm in the middle of the same process you are with our youngest Havanese, Jodie. I posted the pic below on a different thread but you can see what I'm desperately trying to maintain. I do groom her every day for about 30 minutes total, it's a detailed process but I do enjoy it. I'm going to try the Shamwow that Karen suggested. We have coats for all the dogs but the ones on Etsy that Molly posted are much cuter. Hopefully, between all of us our beautiful drop coats will survive the winter. 
I'm on on cuteness overload with all the other pictures!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Faithb said:


> Thanks for this advice/information. How old are they usually when they start blowing coats?


Ten months seems about average... sometimes a little earlier or later. The first one is the worst, by far, but they can intermittently blow some coat until they are about 2 years old. Then it can STILL happen later... either as the result of an illness, or in the case of females, hormones. Many girls blow coat with pregnancy... some, even in response to being in heat.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> You don't even need that many. You just keep wringing it out and soaking more water out of them! That said, I bought one of the "sets" at a fair ("But wait! There's MORE!"  ) and it included one that is SO big that it's absolutely wrap-around towel size for Havanese!
> 
> I use these things for all SORTS of things! They are great!


And remember, the thing that is completely counterintuitive about the Shamwows is that you must soak them first, then wring them out, then use them to dry (swaddle, not rub) your sweet baby. They absorb best when they've been completely wet first! And DH wants me to remind you that they should never be put in a dryer. They will end up the size of a postage stamp! :smile2:


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Dee Dee, when Shama was little, we thought she needed coats, rain jackets, etc. Now we don't bother with any of that stuff. If it's pouring rain when she needs to go out in the back yard, we try to shelter her by standing over her with a big umbrella. We don't really take any special action if it's snowing. If she comes in all wet, we swaddle her with a regular towel. (A Shamwow would be a good idea, I guess!) It's funny that she doesn't generally like to be held, but she relaxes when we swaddle her! All that to say, when she has air dryed, I brush her out, and she's good to go. That said, however, her coat may not be the hardest to groom, and we don't take her on walks in the rain/snow. Somewhere I have a cute photo of her with big clumps of ice all over her, but I can't find it right now ...


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Here's that photo along with a bonus photo that is just cute!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

ShamaMama said:


> If she comes in all wet, we swaddle her with a regular towel. (A Shamwow would be a good idea, I guess!) It's funny that she doesn't generally like to be held, but she relaxes when we swaddle her! All that to say, when she has air dryed, I brush her out, and she's good to go.


I'm glad to see that photo of Shama with that other little brown dog. She looks more like how Willow looks! I always thought Shama would always remained a beauty queen!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

ShamaMama said:


> And remember, the thing that is completely counterintuitive about the Shamwows is that you must soak them first, then wring them out, then use them to dry (swaddle, not rub) your sweet baby. They absorb best when they've been completely wet first! And DH wants me to remind you that they should never be put in a dryer. They will end up the size of a postage stamp! :smile2:


Thank you for pointing this out. Hopefully it's in the instructions that come with the Shamwows but it's a good reminder to read the instructions first! Now I just have to remember this information!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> I'm glad to see that photo of Shama with that other little brown dog. She looks more like how Willow looks! I always thought Shama would always remained a beauty queen!


Ha! You know that people tend to put their best side out on social media ... They post their best photos and tell their cutest stories. Shama and I are no exception! I joined Instagram earlier this summer thinking I would only post really good photos of Shama instead of just every photo I take. So far, I've only posted 20 photos. The next time Shama looks awful, I'll try to get a photo and then start a new thread of "our babies not looking their best ..." :grin2:


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

More pictures, they’re all so cute❣I think I’m too concerned that if Jodie isn’t pristine I’m doing something wrong. Shamamama (Goddess) that’s a wonderful idea! I have plenty of far from perfect pictures. 
When the Shamwow dries, does it become stiff? I tried The Absorber a while back but it didn’t seem to work any better than old towels. That’s a good idea with the snow EvaE1izabeth, I’ll use my Ice Slip brush😆


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> And remember, the thing that is completely counterintuitive about the Shamwows is that you must soak them first, then wring them out, then use them to dry (swaddle, not rub) your sweet baby. They absorb best when they've been completely wet first! And DH wants me to remind you that they should never be put in a dryer. They will end up the size of a postage stamp! :smile2:


I throw mine in the dryer all the time. They shrink a little, but not that much.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Oh Jackie I would love it if you could get some photos of her too! She looks so beautiful in her photos! Her coloring sounds so pretty.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Your Jodie is gorgeous!!!!! That's my favorite color, I was hoping Sophie might turn this light but she won't be. I love her black and white face too but this pretty silver would be so much easier to photograph than black lol. I'm in love with Jodie! 

That's about how long it takes me to comb Sophie out too. I love grooming her also and am VERY careful never to tug and hurt her although sometimes you can't avoid a little tug. She's very good about it I do it with her laying down on something soft and give her little bites of food as we go. But I know she does't love it. With her darn IBD any stress can cause them to flare so it does make me a little nervous to even do that much grooming with her. (although she has been TONS better this last almost year now than ever! I am so thankful. But after what we've been through I don't want to upset her apple cart.). So I'm really struggling with the decision to trim her down for winter. I so love her full coat look but her needs come before mine and she will like less grooming and I'm sure it will feel good to her to not have that much hair. Hopefully her coat will grow back to this length if I stop trimming it around February so we can have the full coat part of the year. I am going to wait for the rains to come though so it will remind me how hard or not hard it is to keep her combed out when being wet every day lol.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Well shuuucks, thank you Dee Dee😊
I really do enjoy grooming Jodie also, it calms me. I’m fortunate that Jodie also lies down and is very tolerant. The other 2 are constant moving targets. I basically have the human form of IBD, I feel for Sophie poor thing. I eat the same 3 meals everyday to avoid symptoms. It’s hard when your baby can’t tell you exactly what’s happening. I think eventually I may have to go short also😢 She’s just so soft and fun to cuddle, it’s like having a living teddy bear that feels like a bunny. It’s the rain though, that can get tedious. My sister is at the top of Washington in B’ham and they almost always get snow, so no long haired dogs for her. For now we keep the apple cart steady and hope for minimal rain.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Oh boy you have three! You and Karen Randall get to have all the fun lol! Jodie sounds so sweet as well as beautiful! 
I used to live in Bellingham! It would definitely be nicer to live in a dry climate with these fuzzy kids.  I'm hoping I can get by with full coat this winter with new rain jacket but I have a feeling I'll cave and trim her down for her sake. 
Ugh I SO feel for you with your IBD I'm so sorry! I don't have IBD (well, actually I do, I have microscopic colitis but that is the mildest and most rare of the three that are under the umbrella term of IBD) but I have severe IBS and SIBO. I have been sick every single day for the last 13 years. It really cripples your entire life. It is expensive to have a bad gut isn't it! I have tried everything and every doc. Really not much better. Last winter I was down to 85 lbs which was really scary. (I am 5'8"). My functional med doc got me up to about 97 but after eating just a bit of salmon Aug 10 I have been super bad again. Back down to 95. So the reason I'm mentioning is I really feel like my body will give up one of these days so 4 days ago I had a phone consult with Dr Steven Sandberg-Lewis. He is in Portland, Hive Mind Medicine. He is brilliant! Specializes in hard cases. He already feels he knows my root causes and picked out several red flags on past tests that all my other Drs thought looked normal. So I'm still really sick but very hopeful and gathering more tests for him and will take a couple more he wants and praying hard this is the one who will really be able to help. Like you I can eat very little at this point just potatoes, turkey mainly but even that is bothering me. If you get desperate maybe consider looking him up he isn't cheap but for me I feel it's getting to a life or death thing.

And I should add I hate Sophie's IBD much more than my own issues! But we had a change of vets last year and she's been doing better than she ever has since! I'm SO grateful!!! She still scares me sometimes and I worry about her a lot and we have to live very quiet life so I've had to give up a LOT and I never leave her but she is worth it and I keep praying she will stay this good and even better!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

JaJa said:


> Well shuuucks, thank you Dee Dee&#55357;&#56842;
> I really do enjoy grooming Jodie also, it calms me. I'm fortunate that Jodie also lies down and is very tolerant. The other 2 are constant moving targets. I basically have the human form of IBD, I feel for Sophie poor thing. I eat the same 3 meals everyday to avoid symptoms. It's hard when your baby can't tell you exactly what's happening. I think eventually I may have to go short also&#55357;&#56866; She's just so soft and fun to cuddle, it's like having a living teddy bear that feels like a bunny. It's the rain though, that can get tedious. My sister is at the top of Washington in B'ham and they almost always get snow, so no long haired dogs for her. For now we keep the apple cart steady and hope for minimal rain.


Hey! I live in New England, and we get LOTS of snow... and slush... and ice. It hasn't stopped me from having long haired dogs. With two in full coat up until I got sick a year ago. . That's the Kodi Canyon Speedway running through are yard. Yep! My husband (the dog hater) SNOWBLOWS paths in the backyard for them! LOL! (And this was a relatively light snow... that 4' fence has disappeared under the snow!


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

I love your yard! 
Your husband the "dog hater" LOL!!! I can see that!  
I just got done about 30 min out in the back yard with Sophie combing combing. She is so good but I feel so guilty knowing she'd much rather me not be doing that. I have been gathering her hair though for 5 years now to make her a super tall dunce hat out of. which will look cute on her but will refer to her mom! 

I think what bugs me most about keeping her coat long for winter is I will have to blow her dry on top of all this brushing and that takes a ton of time too so will add to her list of things to get back at me for. :laugh2:


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Dee Dee said:


> I have been gathering her hair though for 5 years now to make her a super tall dunce hat out of. which will look cute on her but will refer to her mom!


Looking forward to seeing that photo!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Dee Dee said:


> I love your yard!
> Your husband the "dog hater" LOL!!! I can see that!
> I just got done about 30 min out in the back yard with Sophie combing combing. She is so good but I feel so guilty knowing she'd much rather me not be doing that. I have been gathering her hair though for 5 years now to make her a super tall dunce hat out of. which will look cute on her but will refer to her mom!
> 
> I think what bugs me most about keeping her coat long for winter is I will have to blow her dry on top of all this brushing and that takes a ton of time too so will add to her list of things to get back at me for. :laugh2:


I have a HUGE bag full of Kodi's hair that I keep meaning to send to someone and have made into a scarf or something.


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

krandall said:


> I have a HUGE bag full of Kodi's hair that I keep meaning to send to someone and have made into a scarf or something.


I am a knitter and spinner. I primarily spin wool, alpaca and silk. I do know a fellow knitter who saved the fur from her standard poodles and spun it into yarn. The dogs have since passed but she has a wonderful sweater to remember them by. Here is a photo of my boxer Annie modeling one of my creations.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I don’t know if this is true, but with humans, DS’s surgical specialists have been better resources for digestive issues than any gastro he’s ever seen. I don’t mean to knock an entire specialty, but we didn’t have the best experience. I think maybe because so much of these kinds of problems can be subjective. Surgeons have a different perspective, usually data based on whether or not certain procedures help or not and the impact of those on quality of life. Even when we have opted against surgery, our best referrals to other specialists regarding digestive issues (like our favorite nutritionist) came from the surgical team. DS has had more surgeries and procedures on his bowels, stomach, and digestive system than any other part of his body. I can’t even count how many.

My point is, don’t stop seeking out doctors who will listen and offer different perspectives. Sometimes hearing 4 opinions sends you back to the first one, but at least you really have the understanding and perspective to make the best decision for you. Treatment for absorption related disorders has changed dramatically in the last 10 years and some doctors just don’t know what they’re talking about anymore. Especially if they tell you it’s just anxiety. Don’t even get me started on that one. Okay, just one point: Living with chronic health problems absolutely causes anxiety but it doesn’t mean we stop there because it’s harder to find more answers. 

I think it does apply to dogs. Seek out second opinions.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Oh my goodness Dee Dee, I’ve never met anyone so similar! I had severe IBS when I was 30 (1990) and went to a wonderful doctor who had me do an elimination diet and then test food groups. That was the beginning of my limited diet but the IBS was gone. However, I’ve become sensitive to nearly everything as I’ve gotten older. In the summer of 2015 my digestive system began breaking down and by February 2016 I was down to 78 pounds, malnourished and my family and friends began to wonder if I would make it. I’m only 5’2” 85 pound at 5’8” is very scary, 95 pounds must still be quite frustrating. I spent 7 days at OHSU at the end of March 2016 and the whole team of specialists were stumped. SIBO is one of multitudes of assessments I was given. I had some gallstones so I was referred for gallbladder removal. I went on large doses of Trazadone so I could start with one chicken thigh per day. I had to get to 90 pounds to have the surgery. It helped a little and I gained weight but I take loads of supplements due to lack of absorption. I’ve also spent decades looking for answers. At least I’ve made it to 60. Although I’ve spent most of my life hearing “Good Lord Teresa, you’re so annoyingly optimistic, shut up already.” I’ll keep trying though. August 10th I had GERD surgery but I’m still in a lot of pain. I know exactly where Hive Mind Medicine is, its about 25 minutes from our house. I also have several issues with chronic pain and someone in my support group has talked about Hive Mind Medicine. We meet on zoom every Tuesday so I’ll ask about it again tomorrow. Could you pretty please DM me and let me know how your appointment goes? My husband just reminded me that our emergency savings isn’t just for the dogs. Like you, I worry about them more than myself.
Speaking of my babies, I finally gave Jodie a bath and she’s even softer than I remember! I’ve never gone 5 weeks without bathing her. Eventually she went to her spot on the top of the couch and I’m sure she was thinking “Sheesh mommy you’re so needy.”😆 I couldn’t keep my hands off her. I have finally perfected my bathing, shampoo, conditioning and drying techniques. Luckily, I also have JoJo and Cotton to snuggle with. Of course, without my husbands help we wouldn’t have 3 dogs. JoJo is low maintenance and on Gabapentin for his chronic pain so he’s asleep most the time but is content when he’s awake. Jodie is very sweet and quite entertaining. 
Dee Dee I will keep you, and Sophie, in my thoughts and heart. I really do understand💝


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Wow, Karen your place is gorgeous! Hmmm, that’s a lot of labor for someone who “hates” dogs😆


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

I missed your post until just now EvaE1izabeth, thank you. During my sickness the gastroenterologist insisted I get a feeding tube even though I could chew and swallow just fine. He refused to refer me to the teaching hospital unless I got it. My primary Dr. thought it was very odd also but when she called he was uncooperative and blew her off. Of course the formulas for the feeding tube made me sick and crumpled in abdominal pain. I saw a different doctor for My GERD surgery last month and both Drs. I saw last Spring were shocked after looking at my records. I can’t change the past but I did feel better getting feedback from professionals I respect. Thanks for sharing and making good points, claiming anxiety is akin to “It’s all in your head.” In 2016 I told my primary Dr. “I think you’re just a dumping ground for specialists who can’t function outside one tunnel of thought.” I was always told to follow up with my primary Dr. Luckily, she is sharp as a tack. 
Watching JoJo the past few years has been enlightening for me. For 2 years we kept thinking JoJo was near the end but he just kept going. 2 months ago we were more sure than ever, but our little energizer bunny just keeps going. His hips are small and fragile, he has seizures at times, his kidneys are getting worse, he can only see light and dark, he’s almost completely deaf and he’s in the latter stages of canine dementia. Although Jodie gets a lot of credit as she is his seeing eye dog😊


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I have also struggled with digestive issues my entire life although not as severe as many people have. About six months ago I went on an elimination diet where I only ate meat, eggs and fish. Within a month all my symptoms were gone. I continued on this diet for another two months and then started adding things back slowly, one at a time to assess how my system was impacted. I found I cannot handle dairy or wheat at all. The other grains I have tried are not as bad but still not good. I also cannot handle ANY cruciferous vegetables which really surprised me. I am still in the process of trying new foods. The thing that has surprised me is that the veggies seem to cause me more issues. I have always been a big veggie eater! I have no issues at all with meat. This makes me think about our poor dogs that sometimes struggle with digestive issues. There are so many ingredients in some of the dog foods it makes it very hard to do an elimination diet. However, an elimination diet is probably the best way to find out what foods are causing issues.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

The other thing about DS’s surgeons is they are used to and better at coordinating with other doctors. Don’t give up!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Dee Dee said:


> Oh Jackie I would love it if you could get some photos of her too! She looks so beautiful in her photos! Her coloring sounds so pretty.


I'll try. It's hard for me to get a photo that really shows off her coloring. Plus the minute I get the camera pointed at her she has to come over to inspect it!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

ShamaMama said:


> Ha! You know that people tend to put their best side out on social media ... They post their best photos and tell their cutest stories. The next time Shama looks awful, I'll try to get a photo and then start a new thread of "our babies not looking their best ..." :grin2:


You know, I would love that! I could post so many of Willow! Great idea.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Hi Dee Dee,
I just finished with my chronic pain support group and had my memory refreshed. One of the long term members use to live in Spokane and dreaded leaving his acupuncturist. She did her training at Hive Mind Medicine and recommends them to people in this area needing alternatives for digestive specialists. He’s never been able to find an acupuncturist around here that practices with the skill and individual commitment he had in Spokane. Over the decades, I’ve exhausted most avenues of conventional and alternative medicine and have done some interesting things in the alternative field. However, it’s always worth a consultation. Dr. Sandberg-Lewis has decades of quality experience and since I just had a hiatal hernia repair he may have insight as to why I still don’t feel better and am still having chronic nausea. I’m going with EvaE1izabeth’s statement “Don’t give up!” I still think dogs are vital healing medicine too-especially Havanese😋


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Faithb said:


> I am a knitter and spinner. I primarily spin wool, alpaca and silk. I do know a fellow knitter who saved the fur from her standard poodles and spun it into yarn. The dogs have since passed but she has a wonderful sweater to remember them by. Here is a photo of my boxer Annie modeling one of my creations.


Beautiful!!! Do you do it for other people?


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Thanks for sharing Mudpuppymama, I miss veggies and fruit too! I can have meat also as long as there is nothing on it except salt. Wheat, barley and rye are 2 of my worst reactors even though I tested negative for celiac disease. All of my issues have made me hyper aware of what our furry (hairy) babies consume. If one of them has a slight reaction of any kind I hit my Google Docs with detailed notes and time tables. We’re fortunate to have a vet that is well balanced with conventional and naturopathic care for animals. I love that I feel so “normal” on this forum. We do have a history of animals living longer than they should. Our vet refuses to give me any more life estimates, “Teresa, I don’t know what you do in that house of yours but when I’m old I’m living with you.” Guess I better get the bonus room remodeled😋 I love them with my heart and soul just like the rest of you❣


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Especially if they tell you it's just anxiety. Don't even get me started on that one. Okay, just one point: Living with chronic health problems absolutely causes anxiety but it doesn't mean we stop there because it's harder to find more answers.


OMG!!! They are still playing THAT card? I had VERY bad asthma as a child and spent every Christmas in the hospital until I was 7 years old. My parents were told to take me to a psychiatrist, because my asthma was caused by my being a "nervous" child. (I was actually a pretty happy child) I then PRODUCED two sons with bad asthma. One who was so bad, at such a young age, that he was tested to rule out cystic fibrosis. Fortunately, however, by that time, not only were there MUCH better meds but not a single doctor even MENTIONED that it was caused by my sons' "nerves". uke:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> The other thing about DS's surgeons is they are used to and better at coordinating with other doctors. Don't give up!


I go to docs all related to a major teaching hospital, and my rheumatologist is one of the top specialists in the world in that field. I like my PCP, but he is a lot younger, and just has not seen as much. HOWEVER, he works really well with my specialists, and listens to them. When I feel that something is going on above my PCP's pay grade, I email my Rheumatologist, even if it's not directly related to RA. Last year, when I was so sick, HE was the one, who when I emailed him photos of my infected arm, was on the phone with me in half an hour, telling me to be at the hospital first thing the following morning, to be seen by a dermatologist, who came in JUST to see me, before his flight to Disney World with his kids, and an infectious disease doc. Between the two of them, it was biopsied, they found out what infection I actually had and started me on it. It took another 9 months for me to finally be off the antibiotics, but the infection is completely gone. I was on multiple different "wrong" drugs that didn't work before I realized I needed more help than the local docs could give me.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> The other thing about DS's surgeons is they are used to and better at coordinating with other doctors. Don't give up!


Yes! This! I recently found out that I have yet another auto-immune (blood) disorder. I didn't play around. I talked to my Rheumatologist and went to the Hematologist HE suggested. Turns out that the two of them do bicycle tours together. LOL!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

krandall said:


> Beautiful!!! Do you do it for other people?


I have made Knitted items for close friends but have not made any handspun yarn for anyone to date. I might have a friend who recently lost her job that might be interested if someone is looking for handspun yarn.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

That’s incredible Karen! Wow, Havanese lovers who understand my medical issues-I have found my people😋 When I mention “The Havanese Forum” in my pain support group I refer to some of us as Newbies and The Elders. I know I’m the old one, Elders refers to the experience and wisdom of the rest you. 
Faithb, you are very talented!


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

That is awesome! I love it!!!!!



Faithb said:


> I am a knitter and spinner. I primarily spin wool, alpaca and silk. I do know a fellow knitter who saved the fur from her standard poodles and spun it into yarn. The dogs have since passed but she has a wonderful sweater to remember them by. Here is a photo of my boxer Annie modeling one of my creations.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

You are so right about seeking out other doctors. I can't tell you how many and how many kinds I've been to the first ten years. And how many tests. No help at ALL. The last three years have been with a functional Dr who has helped me more than all the others combined (traditional medical Drs just know nothing about IBS and how it works.) But still not doing too well. She doesn't specialize in gastro and has kind of ran out of ideas. So I found this Dr in Portland who seems amazing and am very anxious to work with him. Super expensive though. I saw my functional Dr today and we got all the new tests and meds ordered. I feel for all of you with chronic med issues!



EvaE1izabeth said:


> I don't know if this is true, but with humans, DS's surgical specialists have been better resources for digestive issues than any gastro he's ever seen. I don't mean to knock an entire specialty, but we didn't have the best experience. I think maybe because so much of these kinds of problems can be subjective. Surgeons have a different perspective, usually data based on whether or not certain procedures help or not and the impact of those on quality of life. Even when we have opted against surgery, our best referrals to other specialists regarding digestive issues (like our favorite nutritionist) came from the surgical team. DS has had more surgeries and procedures on his bowels, stomach, and digestive system than any other part of his body. I can't even count how many.
> 
> My point is, don't stop seeking out doctors who will listen and offer different perspectives. Sometimes hearing 4 opinions sends you back to the first one, but at least you really have the understanding and perspective to make the best decision for you. Treatment for absorption related disorders has changed dramatically in the last 10 years and some doctors just don't know what they're talking about anymore. Especially if they tell you it's just anxiety. Don't even get me started on that one. Okay, just one point: Living with chronic health problems absolutely causes anxiety but it doesn't mean we stop there because it's harder to find more answers.
> 
> I think it does apply to dogs. Seek out second opinions.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

My goodness stomach issues seem to run rampant even on this forum! So sorry for all of you who suffer and you too Karen with your RA. We need stores that sell new body parts! For our dogs too! I agree finding the right Dr is key. I'm glad to hear you are familiar with Hive Mind Med also and Dr Sandberg-Lewis. I agree he is one of the very best.

What an ordeal for you JaJa. Our situations do sound very similar! 78 lbs is VERY scary!! (we are even near in age I turn 60 next month! Hard to believe). I'm so sorry you have so many hard issues to deal with I hope you will consider seeing Dr SSL he is so close to you which is very nice! I had my appointment with him last week and I absolutely loved him, feel for the first time some real hope! I will be happy to PM you the details! (also what happened to you with the feeding tube is exactly why my FD does not want me to do it. They have to improve the ingredients of that stuff!)

I'll bet Jodie is so soft I wouldn't be able to keep my hands off of her either! LOL. So sorry your senior is having such issues so hard when they get older! But he's so lucky to have a great home. <3



JaJa said:


> Oh my goodness Dee Dee, I've never met anyone so similar! I had severe IBS when I was 30 (1990) and went to a wonderful doctor who had me do an elimination diet and then test food groups. That was the beginning of my limited diet but the IBS was gone. However, I've become sensitive to nearly everything as I've gotten older. In the summer of 2015 my digestive system began breaking down and by February 2016 I was down to 78 pounds, malnourished and my family and friends began to wonder if I would make it. I'm only 5'2" 85 pound at 5'8" is very scary, 95 pounds must still be quite frustrating. I spent 7 days at OHSU at the end of March 2016 and the whole team of specialists were stumped. SIBO is one of multitudes of assessments I was given. I had some gallstones so I was referred for gallbladder removal. I went on large doses of Trazadone so I could start with one chicken thigh per day. I had to get to 90 pounds to have the surgery. It helped a little and I gained weight but I take loads of supplements due to lack of absorption. I've also spent decades looking for answers. At least I've made it to 60. Although I've spent most of my life hearing "Good Lord Teresa, you're so annoyingly optimistic, shut up already." I'll keep trying though. August 10th I had GERD surgery but I'm still in a lot of pain. I know exactly where Hive Mind Medicine is, its about 25 minutes from our house. I also have several issues with chronic pain and someone in my support group has talked about Hive Mind Medicine. We meet on zoom every Tuesday so I'll ask about it again tomorrow. Could you pretty please DM me and let me know how your appointment goes? My husband just reminded me that our emergency savings isn't just for the dogs. Like you, I worry about them more than myself.
> Speaking of my babies, I finally gave Jodie a bath and she's even softer than I remember! I've never gone 5 weeks without bathing her. Eventually she went to her spot on the top of the couch and I'm sure she was thinking "Sheesh mommy you're so needy."&#128518; I couldn't keep my hands off her. I have finally perfected my bathing, shampoo, conditioning and drying techniques. Luckily, I also have JoJo and Cotton to snuggle with. Of course, without my husbands help we wouldn't have 3 dogs. JoJo is low maintenance and on Gabapentin for his chronic pain so he's asleep most the time but is content when he's awake. Jodie is very sweet and quite entertaining.
> Dee Dee I will keep you, and Sophie, in my thoughts and heart. I really do understand&#128157;


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

I thought you were in your 30s Dee Dee. Maybe it’s because that’s how young I feel in my mind😋 If you could send me the details that would be wonderful. My husband (Ed) told me to at least have a consultation with him and stop yapping about depleting our emergency funds. Yes, alternative medicine is expensive but Ed would take second job if it meant I could be better with even a couple issues. I’m fine going to Portland-during the day and I’m impressed with Dr. Sanberg-Lewis’ experience. I’ve even had ozone gas injected in my muscles to address the pain. It didn’t work but it was cool to watch it under my skin. I’m so glad you’ve decided not to get a feeding tube. If you can chew and swallow turkey and gravy you can also swallow liquids if it doesn’t make you sick. At least that was my logic at the time. Of course you’ve been malnourished too and experienced depleted cognitive function. After 2 chicken thighs a day I finally had my brain back! Protein was like a miracle drug.
I’ll be 61 on the 20th but you are still the Elder and you and the other Elders have inspired me. I’m off to play with Jodie’s hair and snuggle with Cotton. Thank you!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

JaJa said:


> I'll be 61 on the 20th but you are still the Elder and you and the other Elders have inspired me. I'm off to play with Jodie's hair and snuggle with Cotton. Thank you!


I still really AM your "elder".


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

krandall said:


> I still really AM your "elder".


Me too!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Dee Dee said:


> Oh Jackie I would love it if you could get some photos of her too! She looks so beautiful in her photos! Her coloring sounds so pretty.


Ok - here's a photo after I combed her out this morning. Not a great picture but you can kind of see the coloring showing along her back.

Well, heck - I can't find the photo now! I'll have to try this again.

Here we go - finally found it.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Oh she is SO beautiful!!!! She looks like such a little sweetheart! She has such a pretty coat too I love the apricot down her back and the silver on her ears! What color was she when she was a puppy? I'm so glad you took the time to take this photo I've always wanted to see more of her she is just gorgeous!



Jackie from Concrete said:


> Ok - here's a photo after I combed her out this morning. Not a great picture but you can kind of see the coloring showing along her back.
> 
> Well, heck - I can't find the photo now! I'll have to try this again.
> 
> Here we go - finally found it.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

Oh I missed this! Shama!!! She is so cute and has such a sweet face! OMGOsh that puppy pic of herrrr!!!! LOL the snow clumps...I've seen those before lol! Really enjoyed seeing more pics of her! I found some FLEA DIRT on my little monkey this morning! She never has fleas and I never treat her for them except this time of year I will find some dirt and 2-3 fleas. I try to get them and I also put down FLEA BUSTERS in the house. Everyone keeps telling me if you see one flea, there will be many. But that has not been true for us in over 20 years. I never treat my pups (and we walk at parks, etc) and they will get 2-3 this time of year then nothing again. And I do watch closely for that. But I think this is the last straw in my decision sob!!!! I think I'll give her a bath and give her a good trim. It breaks my heart but I know she will like it better and not the long daily groomings.



ShamaMama said:


> Dee Dee, when Shama was little, we thought she needed coats, rain jackets, etc. Now we don't bother with any of that stuff. If it's pouring rain when she needs to go out in the back yard, we try to shelter her by standing over her with a big umbrella. We don't really take any special action if it's snowing. If she comes in all wet, we swaddle her with a regular towel. (A Shamwow would be a good idea, I guess!) It's funny that she doesn't generally like to be held, but she relaxes when we swaddle her! All that to say, when she has air dryed, I brush her out, and she's good to go. That said, however, her coat may not be the hardest to groom, and we don't take her on walks in the rain/snow. Somewhere I have a cute photo of her with big clumps of ice all over her, but I can't find it right now ...


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Wait a minute, there’s actually 2 of you older than me? I’m not accustomed to that. So you’re both an Elder and my elder, I’ll have to trust you on that. Now I feel like a Spring chicken😋
Jackie, Willow is beautiful! I better hurry up and bathe Cotton too. He has apricot on his ears but that’s about it. I love how her back looks.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Ok - here's a photo after I combed her out this morning. Not a great picture but you can kind of see the coloring showing along her back.
> 
> Well, heck - I can't find the photo now! I'll have to try this again.
> 
> Here we go - finally found it.


Oh, she is SO pretty! I love her shiny, silky looking coat and champagne color!!! <3


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

JaJa said:


> Wait a minute, there's actually 2 of you older than me? I'm not accustomed to that. So you're both an Elder and my elder, I'll have to trust you on that. Now I feel like a Spring chicken&#55357;&#56843;
> Jackie, Willow is beautiful! I better hurry up and bathe Cotton too. He has apricot on his ears but that's about it. I love how her back looks.


I think there are more people here than you think who are older than you! LOL! IMO, if you haven't enjoyed the "pleasure" of learning about Medicare (which should ONLY be required of younger, more agile minds!) you are still a "spring chicken"! ound:


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

You crack me up Karen😆 I can still remember my parents reveling in the joys of Medicare and saying the same thing.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Dee Dee said:


> Oh she is SO beautiful!!!! She looks like such a little sweetheart! She has such a pretty coat too I love the apricot down her back and the silver on her ears! What color was she when she was a puppy? I'm so glad you took the time to take this photo I've always wanted to see more of her she is just gorgeous!


As far as being a "sweetheart", she has her moments! She can be a little mischief maker, that's for sure.

And here is another attempt at a photo. If I'm lucky, it'll be her baby picture from the breeder. The breeder originally named her Brenn but I changed it to Willow when I got her. No one knew what I was saying when I said Brenn. Would always have to spell it out for them.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

OH my gosh! If that isn't the cutest little face ever I don't know what is!!!!! She was an adorable baby!

LOL Sophie has her naughty side too one of the things I love best about her. I love naughty dogs!

I love the name you chose for her. Sophie started out as Kiku. It is a Japanese for Chrysanthymum. Her full name is BG's Ozakuri Chrysanthymum. Somehow in honor of their daughter in law who is Japanese.

Thank you so much for these pics Jackie! Really enjoying them.



Jackie from Concrete said:


> As far as being a "sweetheart", she has her moments! She can be a little mischief maker, that's for sure.
> 
> And here is another attempt at a photo. If I'm lucky, it'll be her baby picture from the breeder. The breeder originally named her Brenn but I changed it to Willow when I got her. No one knew what I was saying when I said Brenn. Would always have to spell it out for them.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> As far as being a "sweetheart", she has her moments! She can be a little mischief maker, that's for sure.
> 
> And here is another attempt at a photo. If I'm lucky, it'll be her baby picture from the breeder. The breeder originally named her Brenn but I changed it to Willow when I got her. No one knew what I was saying when I said Brenn. Would always have to spell it out for them.


Almost everybody change's their puppy's name from their litter name when they get them anyway!


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

What a precious face❣ I want to reach through my screen and give her a gentle nuzzle. She definitely looks like a Willow, nice choice.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Dee Dee said:


> OH my gosh! If that isn't the cutest little face ever I don't know what is!!!!! She was an adorable baby!
> 
> LOL Sophie has her naughty side too one of the things I love best about her. I love naughty dogs!
> 
> ...


I'm glad that both of my breeders let me pick my own names for my dogs... I just had to use their prefix, which is understandable! And only Panda had a litter name. Pam does have "themed" litter names for her puppies now, but she didn't when I got Kodi and Pixel. Panda's name was Mona... Which I hated, because it never made me think of Mona Lisa (which wouldn't fit her personality either) but instead, immediately brought to mind Moaning Myrtle from Harry Potter! LOL!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

I think Shama's name from the breeder was Little Girl ...

No time to read all the long posts (sorry about everyone's health problems!) but wanted to thank you, Jackie, for posting both the current photo of Willow (gorgeous!) and her puppy photos (so cute - the teacher side of me really wants to make a worksheet where you match the forum puppies to the adult dogs! If I remember, I'll put that together once I retire - in 10 years or so!)


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Desi’s litter name was Texas.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Ok - here's a photo after I combed her out this morning. Not a great picture but you can kind of see the coloring showing along her back.
> 
> Well, heck - I can't find the photo now! I'll have to try this again.
> 
> Here we go - finally found it.


I love her cute ponytail!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> As far as being a "sweetheart", she has her moments! She can be a little mischief maker, that's for sure.
> 
> And here is another attempt at a photo. If I'm lucky, it'll be her baby picture from the breeder. The breeder originally named her Brenn but I changed it to Willow when I got her. No one knew what I was saying when I said Brenn. Would always have to spell it out for them.


The portrait of her is such a treat, because it doesn't seem like we see pictures of that age very often. How old is she here?


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Wait, are those pictures really on the same day? I just noticed it says 14 days


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> Me too!


Me three!!!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

ShamaMama;1460516 the teacher side of me really wants to make a worksheet where you match the forum puppies to the adult dogs! If I remember said:


> Oh that sounds like fun! Something to look forward to!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> The portrait of her is such a treat, because it doesn't seem like we see pictures of that age very often. How old is she here?


If by "here" you mean currently, she is almost 6-1/2 years old.


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## JaJa (Jun 28, 2020)

Jodie started out as Jordan and we lengthened it to Jodie Marie Jordan, Marie was my mother-in-laws middle name.
Shamamama, do you start on Monday? It seems like it’s been 2 weeks since you mentioned it. You must be crazy busy right now. Doing the work of 3.0 FTE “should” come with a healthy stipend. I’ve been thinking about you and wishing you a smooth transition.


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## Dee Dee (Jul 24, 2015)

ohhh Desi!!! So darling



Faithb said:


> Desi's litter name was Texas.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> If by "here" you mean currently, she is almost 6-1/2 years old.


Well, I meant if the pictures were taken on the same day. I didn't realize she was 6 1/2!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

JaJa said:


> Shamamama, do you start on Monday? It seems like it's been 2 weeks since you mentioned it. You must be crazy busy right now. Doing the work of 3.0 FTE "should" come with a healthy stipend. I've been thinking about you and wishing you a smooth transition.


Thank you, JaJa. Yes, we normally would have started with students the day after Labor Day, but they gave us another week (the four days after Labor Day) to prepare for the hybrid model of educating our students. Students will begin arriving in my classroom at 7:30 AM on Monday. (First hour doesn't begin until 8:02, but they are allowed to enter the building as early as 7:30 and must go straight to their assigned seats in first hour. No mingling in the hallways.) I know I will be happy to see my students in person, but it is frustrating to many of us that the parents were told that their children would be six feet apart when that is not physically possible in most of the classrooms. I could go on about this awful situation, but I don't care to as the HF is my happy place!

Thanks for being such nice, fun, interesting people and for having such cute, clever, adorable dogs! :grouphug:


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