# New owner, not so new issue



## hartnurse (Jan 12, 2011)

A plea for help from all you veterans...

Our little Seda, who we brought home at 11wks old and is now 17wks old has continued her puppy habit of nipping/biting during play and when excited. The behavior occurs at times during play but mostly when she is over excited. Her nipping does not draw blood, nor has it ever been accompanied by a growl or aggression. I absolutely plan on puppy training classes. I haven't done so before now because of the immunization schedule advised by my breeder: 3 weeks between each immunization and delay as long as possible the rabies vaccine. the classes I've researched all seem very strict about completion of immunizations before enrollment, especially Rabies. The laws in our county (suburb of Chicago) require Rabies at 4months of age  . In the meantime I am seeking to learn what you might advice as measures we can practice at home to deal with this. She LOVES meeting new people but seems unable to resist getting in a nip at a chin or hand when they bend to pet her or try to pick her up. She'll offer excited "kisses" mixed with nips/bites. 
My DH allows/loves when she happily wiggles in his arms and excitedly wags her tail while fervently offering kisses which then progress to bites. this occurs when she first greets him in the A.M or when he comes home from work. I advise him to ignore her and turn away until she calms down which he will do. However, as soon as it seems safe to pay attention to her she starts up the same antics. Eventually she does tire and seems content to just sit next to him and chew on a toy. Unfortunately, by then DH has become frustrated :/. 
I know how important it is to continue having her meet new people but I feel worried about her "excited" nipping and biting!
I'm not sure if jumping into private training is necessary at this point (she's barely 5 months old) or if I/we need to calm down and work on this ourselves.
Again, from what I've learned, I don't believe her biting is fearful, aggressive or guarding. PLEASE help!! I really want to do the right thing.....


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## kimnaz (Feb 15, 2011)

My pup is 9 weeks. I have had him a week. I spoke to the breeder about his behavior and she said it will get better as he gets older. About 12 weeks. I see she is older. I try to have chew toys in my hand when I pick him up and tell him "no bite"!


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Hello. This is what I did with Ache for the biting, as suggested by the trainer. You can search around information about bite inhibition and it may be better explained than what I can say but in my words... Everytime Ache bit, I( or the person bitten ) said OUCH really loud, just turn around and don't even look at her. Stop all attention towards the puppy for 30 - 60 seconds. If she bites really hard, you should walk away to some place where she can't see you. It is easier if the puppy is tethered while playing with you but if she is free, you can go inside a room and close the door for 30 - 60 seconds. Almost sure, the puppy will wait for you at the door. When you go out, if she is calmer, you say " much better " and start again... OVER AND OVER AGAIN. You have to do the same thing if she bites your pants or shoes. It is not easy but it works and she will soon learn that biting is not fun. Good luck !


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## Gableshavs (Jun 19, 2007)

As part of socialization among dogs in a pack, when one bites and hurts the other one yelps loudly. I do this automatically, my puppy bites I say ouch, and it comes out loud. Then we cease play and I put her away in her crate for a little while. I notice that the older dogs taught her it's not the right thing to do, and I do provide lots of chewables like rawhide bones and they work well (note when the bone gets too soft and frayed throw it away to avoid your baby choking on a piece she's ripped off). Know this, as the teething stops so will the biting.


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## HavAPuppy1 (Oct 24, 2010)

Amelia did that nipping behavior for awhile and we were getting worried. She would bite my hands, and pants and when pushed away would become more nippy. We began to make a sharp ouch sound when she would do it and then walk into the other room for 30 seconds. Then return and act like nothing had happened. This was done over and over again and eventually it worked. She is 7 months now and we have no problems with her nipping anymore.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

As far as puppy classes. The new and improved thinking on this is not to wait. By four months the critical period is coming to an end. Here is AVSAB's position statement on this. http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy socialization.pdf It's good he's biting , that's when to train him. Here's an article. http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/teaching-bite-inhibition


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Lizzie would get so excited when my 10 year old would come down in the morning. It got to the point that she could not walk and the nipping would annoy her. We did the loud yelp and walked away or even sat on the couch. We would also say "no bite". As she got older is subsided. Now she has started gently nipping our pants if she is super excited, so we are doing the same thing.

@Dave-I am so frustrated with my vet and the rules of the classes around here. Lizzie is not socialized as much as she should be because I was chastised about taking her anywhere until she was fully vaccinated. That coupled with car sickness limited her exposure. She is great with kids and little dogs, but not bigger dogs.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

My Zoey is a mo older and she does the same thing but only about once a day and I notice it is when she has not had as much exercise during the day. She is like going crazey and treating me like she and Maddie treat each other I just walk away and distract her in some way. The other comments are much better then mine. She has learned a soft bight because of all the play with her sister so it doesn't hurt.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

I always did the loud squeeeeel with a high-pitched 'OOUUUCH"
usually they stop


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Lizzie'sMom said:


> Lizzie would get so excited when my 10 year old would come down in the morning. It got to the point that she could not walk and the nipping would annoy her. We did the loud yelp and walked away or even sat on the couch. We would also say "no bite". As she got older is subsided. Now she has started gently nipping our pants if she is super excited, so we are doing the same thing.
> 
> @Dave-I am so frustrated with my vet and the rules of the classes around here. Lizzie is not socialized as much as she should be because I was chastised about taking her anywhere until she was fully vaccinated. That coupled with car sickness limited her exposure. She is great with kids and little dogs, but not bigger dogs.


I hear you Lynne, some vets are still in the Dark Ages. Here is R.K. Anderson's letter to vets. If they haven't heard of him , it's pretty scary. 
Make sure to copy it or email it. It's time we filled them in. http://www.apdt.com/petowners/articles/docs/RKAndersonLetter.pdf


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Ceylon would occasionally nip by mistake when we first got him, we did the yelping thing and also sternly saying 'No!', then ignoring him until he settled down, and it has worked for us. Now, if he nips us by mistake (he never does it on purpose, but if he is really excited and we are playing with him with a toy, he can still on occasion put his teeth into our fingers instead of on the toy), usually without even us saying anything, he immediately stops and looks so guilty and dejected... every dog is different, but Havs are generally eager to please; I think that maybe you just have to find a way to make Seda really realize that you REALLY don't like that behavior, and she will eventually 'get' it. Let us know how it goes!!


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

davetgabby said:


> As far as puppy classes. The new and improved thinking on this is not to wait. By four months the critical period is coming to an end. Here is AVSAB's position statement on this. http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy socialization.pdf It's good he's biting , that's when to train him. Here's an article. http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/teaching-bite-inhibition


Not trying to hijack the thread (just looking for clarification) - but by puppy classes and 'critical period' you mean _socialization_, not obedience training, right, Dave? I think that HartNurse's question about training was for obedience-type training - and I know that puppy obedience training classes by definition include some degree of socialization, so by nature that can cause confusion - but on the first read of what you wrote, it seemed like you were saying that the critical period for _obedience training _is 4 months of age, and I assume that is not what you were trying to say, right? You are saying that the critical period for socialization is 4 months...??


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## hartnurse (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks for the article Dave! This is EXACTLY what my breeder had told me as we prepared tp bring Seda home. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of the strict policies and procedures of pup training facilities/businesses in regards to immunizations. not that I would change my plan as I do believe the need for caution in immunizing Hav pups. In the meantime I will continue to try my best to have Seda with me out and about as much as possible. Hubby and I are social people and we really want our new baby to enjoy the company as much as we do.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

heatherk said:


> Not trying to hijack the thread (just looking for clarification) - but by puppy classes and 'critical period' you mean _socialization_, not obedience training, right, Dave? I think that HartNurse's question about training was for obedience-type training - and I know that puppy obedience training classes by definition include some degree of socialization, so by nature that can cause confusion - but on the first read of what you wrote, it seemed like you were saying that the critical period for _obedience training _is 4 months of age, and I assume that is not what you were trying to say, right? You are saying that the critical period for socialization is 4 months...??


The four months refers to socialization. Obedience training is just a small part of this first training. More important is socialization.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Heatnurse, You might try a join a training club. Many of the members of the club I train with bring their puppies. They let people hold them before class, then they crate them near the other dogs that are crated and after class they do the same and they let them meet the seasoned and proofed dogs one at a time, at different times. A couple of the others in class are Vets. and one even takes her new pup with her older dogs to small trials.


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## hartnurse (Jan 12, 2011)

Did you eventually try the classes? Just wondering if the time window made it too difficult to takcle the socialization thing. We will not do Rabies until at least 6 months. I hope Seda will still be able to benefit and not flunk or be kicked out...LOL!


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## hartnurse (Jan 12, 2011)

kimnaz said:


> My pup is 9 weeks. I have had him a week. I spoke to the breeder about his behavior and she said it will get better as he gets older. About 12 weeks. I see she is older. I try to have chew toys in my hand when I pick him up and tell him "no bite"!


Thanks Kim! Your methods are spot on with what I've read. I am trying the stopping play, "no Bite". It does settle her down sometimes and I hope with consistency she'll
realize it's never ok to nip/bite.


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## hartnurse (Jan 12, 2011)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Heatnurse, You might try a join a training club. Many of the members of the club I train with bring their puppies. They let people hold them before class, then they crate them near the other dogs that are crated and after class they do the same and they let them meet the seasoned and proofed dogs one at a time, at different times. A couple of the others in class are Vets. and one even takes her new pup with her older dogs to small trials.


I will check into it. Not sure if they have something like this in my area. BTW, noticed you live in N.C. My daughter goes to UNC-CHAPEL HILL. She loves N.C. and I practically have to drag her home during her breaks! Of course with a new puppy in the house she has a new incentive to come home


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## hartnurse (Jan 12, 2011)

davetgabby said:


> The four months refers to socialization. Obedience training is just a small part of this first training. More important is socialization.


Socialization is our main incentive right now..we figure at the classes we will also continue to get advise about bothersome puppy behavior. Should we expect a bad experience waiting until the 5-6 month mark. Our current plan is to Rabies vaccinate at 5-6 months. Our vet has been very receptive to following an extended immunization period as the breeder strongly advised. It really is our decision on what we want for our pup.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

hartnurse said:


> Socialization is our main incentive right now..we figure at the classes we will also continue to get advise about bothersome puppy behavior. Should we expect a bad experience waiting until the 5-6 month mark. Our current plan is to Rabies vaccinate at 5-6 months. Our vet has been very receptive to following an extended immunization period as the breeder strongly advised. It really is our decision on what we want for our pup.


 I started Zoey later and I wish I had done it at about 4mo. Most puppy kindergarten classes let you start sooner than 5 to 6mo. Our class has all big puppys and Zoey is a bit scared. Each time she is getting better and better.She is now 6mo and we will have our 4th class on Monday. The other very large puppys are 4mo I would not worry about getting rabies at a class.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hartnurse said:


> Socialization is our main incentive right now..we figure at the classes we will also continue to get advise about bothersome puppy behavior. Should we expect a bad experience waiting until the 5-6 month mark. Our current plan is to Rabies vaccinate at 5-6 months. Our vet has been very receptive to following an extended immunization period as the breeder strongly advised. It really is our decision on what we want for our pup.


Any classes you can take should help. Since you sort of missed this period , there might be some issues. Please do not worry about the rabies shot. The odds of catching rabies are quite rare. One of the main reasons that AVSAB recomemds new puppies going to their new homes around eight weeks is that it gives the new owners time to socialize them to people and other dogs. And they have generally learned all they need from their mother and siblings. Bite inhibition learning has to be continued in the new home. And it is the no. one reason for puppy classes. Socialization never ends. Always get your dog out there on a regular basis because they can become asocial if this is not kept up. Good for you for making this a priority.


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## jacqui (Aug 7, 2007)

At five months I don't see any reason why she would not understand the command 'no'...as in 'No Bite'. Of course great praise and treats have to follow if she listens. And a distracting toy--maybe your DH could provide it. Frustrating I am sure. 

Our four month old, Dancer, has a habit of tugging at Maxi's coat--also a huge no, no as I am trying desperately to thicken it. I say 'No" and I know he understands because I get this 'hung dog' look. Then a treat and a distraction with a different toy besides his big sister.


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## hartnurse (Jan 12, 2011)

I am not worried about the delayed Rabies vaccine and Seda's puppy class participation. It is the regulations of the centers that REQUIRE Rabies vaccination.....


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hartnurse said:


> I am not worried about the delayed Rabies vaccine and Seda's puppy class participation. It is the regulations of the centers that REQUIRE Rabies vaccination.....


What town do you live in ? Bedrock. ? ound: Tell those Flintstones to get with the times. Send them the web site.


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## Tony & Milo (Nov 25, 2010)

kimnaz said:


> My pup is 9 weeks. I have had him a week. I spoke to the breeder about his behavior and she said it will get better as he gets older. About 12 weeks. I see she is older. I try to have chew toys in my hand when I pick him up and tell him "no bite"!


I think that picking the pup up is rewarding. We say "no bite" and walk away. My pups have learned that that behavior gets them no attention.


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