# Need help with this crate thing--advice desperately needed



## dotndani (Mar 19, 2007)

Hi all!
Duncan's first night was HORRENDOUS!! Hubby slept in the living room(front of house)while Duncan was in his crate.he whimpered every hour and cried most of the night,while me and my daughters slept in our bedrooms(back of house).
I for one have no problem with the crying it out method,we actually ferbered our daughters.Lots of crying day one then daily it diminished till they were going to bed without a peep!
Now it's hard since the girls need their sleep and they are in school,so I can't let him cry all night!
So I have devised my plan of action for tonight and please let me know if this is right.
I am on puppy duty tonight (last night hubby was on,I had to work today)
I plan on bringing his crate into our bedroom and placing it on a chair next to me.If he whimpers I take him out and let him go potty with no talking,just go potty!What if he does cry and whimper lots????Hubby can go sleep in the basement,but I'm more worried about my daughters since they have school tomorrow.Any suggestions if he doesn't want to settle in? Also,should puppies have bedtimes?One more question is 7ma,1pm and 7pm feeding schedule sound good?
So sorry for all these questions,but I just want to do things the right way!


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

What I did with my dog the first couple of nights; I slept in the family room away from the family. I let the dog fall asleep laying on my lap, then I put him in his crate, that was on a table by me. If he cried, I put the crate on me for a couple of seconds and he would go to sleep then put the crate back on the table by me. I didn't have much whimpering with this method. I would play with the puppy really good before bed. My dog has always wanted to go to sleep around 8-8:30 pm.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Need more details. Where was the crate when there was trouble? What was the human reaction?


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Every dog is different so remember that . I just need to ask a few questions to clarify things . ? Where did the puppy sleep last night .. 
Yes it is best for the puppy to sleep in the bedroom with you .. Take the puppy potty before you put him into bed . You have to realize he is missing his litter mates and Mommy so he is missing warmth next to him as well > Some breeders recomend getting a device that simulates the Mommy's hearbeat .. I know I will hear from Tom about this one .. 
My first dog Asta howled for three nights and I mean howled .. Cosmo was not so bad . I had them in crates but the frst night I slept on the floor beside Asta and he still cried .. Cosmo slept on the bed - I do not recommend this but for him it worked .. I had a pee pee pad on the end of the bed and he used it .. After a week he was in a crate beside my bed and doing OK . He just was very needy in the beginning and then he was fine once he knew I was near him ..
A lot of people pn this forum recomend putting the puppy right beside the bed elevated on a night stand and having easy access . What I found out is that there is no real right and wrong .. The first nights are hard no matter what and then they seem to become more comfortable with you and learn this is where they are going to be from now on and they settle ..
There are other threads with lots of advice on this subject .. So look them up - you are not the first one asking aobut this .. 
A lot depends on the size of your puppy as well remember they have very small bladders and they can only hold so much - so need to potty every two to three hours .. A three lb dog hold less than a 5 lb dog .. 
There is a difference in the I have to go potty bark and the frustrated bark - it is a matter of figuring it out .. 
You need to feed three times a day - I found I fed a little earlier just because the dog got earlier .. I fed at 6.30 - 12.30 and 5.30 ..
They are sort of like newborns eventually you figure it out .. 
If he wakes in the night and just wants reassurance say shssh .. Time to sleep . it sometimes helps to cover the crate with a towel or balnket ..


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## dotndani (Mar 19, 2007)

Tom,
THe crate was inthe living room on the floor and hubby slept on the couch next to him.He shh shh shhushed him and when he really got going hubby took him out.One time he pooped and the other time is peed.Hekept on shushing him but he still whimpered/cried.Please advise!
For the other responders,thanks for the input. I will try again tonight.
Please pray for me!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Oh, Dotndani, I feel so bad for you and your family. Here are some of my thoughts. It looks like he is in a wire crate. Try placing a blanket over it so that it is dark inside and he has little distractions. Is the crate too big? You can make it smaller by putting a box in part of it. What is he sleeping on? Is it warm and soft? Do you have something that has his mom's and littermates smell on it? Let him sleep with that. We did not, but we did let him sleep with a dirty sock of my husbands. 

The biggest thing is to keep hom playing lots today so he is very tired when he goes to sleep tonight. If he sleeps all day because he was awke all night, you may be up again with him tonight. Good luck!!!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Last feeding for us is around 6 pm. I guess it would be a good idea to take the water up after a certain time but we have never thought to do this. We usually don't go to bed until 11 or a little after. Pup goes in crate in the bedroom where it can see our bed. Sometimes they will wake at first light but most of the time they will sleep until 7 or 7:30. Only very RARELY does one need to get up in the night.

The amount of interaction between us and the pup is MINIMUM. Pup is allowed to whimper for several minutes if it does to start with. Then one of us will say QUIET once and we are quiet for a while. The command is not a request. It's a demand. Neither mean nor loud but a DEMAND nonetheless. If pup continues to whimper one of us will rustle the sheets on our bed just so the pup sees that we are there.

After several minutes more, if the whimpering continues, one of us will again demand QUIET or I may use a low growl that I use which is pretty effective. The growl is not mean or threatening but more of a "don't bother me little one, you're about to get in trouble".

We've crate trained somewhere between 150 and 200 Havanese puppies like this. Some will whimper for 30 seconds. Some for a few minutes and a rare few maybe for 30 minutes.

Calm and Assertive:

You know that Cesar always says that the trainer needs to be calm and assertive, but what does this mean exactly?

Calm:

These little dogs have an intuition that most other breeds don't have. They worry when we worry. They stress when we stress. Worry and stress are not part of being calm. Bedtime crate training is training like any other. The trainer has to stay calm. And you can't fool the puppy. They need for you to be strong and calm.

Assertive:

Their understanding of words will come later but right now they understand your feelings and not what you say. If you say something like "Quiet" you have to mean it. Baby talk and trying to comfort the pup only makes it worse. They don't need that. They need for you to be the leader. NO TREATS.

Calm and Assertive are ALWAYS required for any training.

They are like children and horses in that they tend to do what you expect of them if you dont' expect them to do something that they are not able to do and you know how to ask/demand. They can sleep in a crate at night. I've never seen one that couldn't.

There is a difference between a "Don't you feel sorry for me" whimper and one with more desperation that means "I need to go potty NOW." The "feel sorry for me" whimper gets NO positive reinforcement-like baby talk or what we might think of as comforting the puppy-it doesn't. If a potty break is needed it needs to be all business-no eye contact, no baby talk, no petting, no nothing except to put in the box until business is done and then back in the crate.

Let us know how it goes tonight.


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## dotndani (Mar 19, 2007)

Tom,
thank you for your advice.I will most definitely try your advice.You seem to know what you're doing!
Cheryl,
yes it's a wire crate,he has a blankie that his momma slept on with his brothers and sisters and a chew toy from his old home.
We tried to tucker him out yesterday,but maybe he's jsut nervous. I just need him to sleep tonight.THanks agaiN!!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Thought of something else.

When the pup is in the crate and you are in bed, if you are thinking about giving a "quiet" command but aren't sure if you should or not, choose not.

It actually will work a lot better with silence from you than with too much verbalization.


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## dotndani (Mar 19, 2007)

I just hope he gets it soon. I don't want to be in a situation where he is whimpering/crying to the point that he will wake my daughters up!!!That would most definitely not be a good thing,because the next day we'll all be cranky pots!!! 
I really appreciate everyone's input.Thank you all so much!


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

The first night Capote came home he slept in his travel bag in my bed so he could see and hear me. When he wimpered I clapped and said No! After a couple times of this he settled down with a miserable whine then didn't make a peep afterwards. The next time I only had to say no once..then after that, every other night he was fine. I'm working him off the bed now..first I turned his bag so he couldn't see me on the bed.. then the next night I put the bag on the floor. He whined a couple times but I said 'no! Goodnight Capote' and he was fine. He's been on the bag on the floor since without a whine of complaint.

I think he's gotten used to me being gone during the day without me knowing! lol. I put him in his pen today during the day today and went in the other room. After the initial 10 minutes of complaining he settled right down and I didn't hear a peep from him for the next hour. Afterwards I came back out and took him out for a hour and played.


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