# Ground Cover for Multiple Dogs



## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

Hi All,

I haven't posted in awhile, but here I am with a problem I need input on! My backyard grass has turned to toast from urine stains. Most of my yard is taken up by a fenced swimming pool with pavement around it, but my dogs are trained to go potty on a small area of grass next to the pool. Of course, when it rains, they don't want to get their little Havvie feet wet, so then they go on the pavement. Not a big deal to me....I just hose it off. The problem is the grass area. It looks AWFUL and I want to replace it with something practical, easy to clean, will be clean for them to walk on, will not harmful to their feet, or be something they could ingest. Has anyone else dealt with this problem and found a solution that they like? Something that looks nice enough that I will still enjoy spending time in my backyard? Oh yes, affordable is important too.

Thanks for any ideas you can give me!

Karen


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

Another idea is to add a supplement that is supposed to keep their urine from burning the lawn out. I am not sure of exact names but I have seen them in catalogs.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2008)

When we finish our outside run/kennel area, it will be peat gravel on top of sand. - that may not be a bad idea....then you could landscape around the outside to hide the 'potty' area.


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

It's too late for supplements added to their diet. As I said, the grass is toasty brown. It just isn't working out with multiple dogs in my yard. Since my grass area is so small, it gets a lot of abuse from regular potty visits. I really just need to replace it and would like some ideas. Thanks!


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

What is peat gravel?  Is it small? Is there a size specification? I have considered gravel, but I want it to be comfortable for them to walk on and also something they won't eat. Something else I should mention is that the soil in my backyard is full of clay. When it rains, my grass area floods, the water does not absorb easily. So I need to address this problem too. If I dug down, removing the grass, put in sand as you suggested, then peat gravel, would this solve the drainage problem? I'm thinking I probably have to install a drain to take the water away.......


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2008)

Peat Gravel (or Pea Gravel as some label it) is small rounded stones. Nothing like standard gravel that is large and roughly shaped. Peat gravel has no rough, corners or sides. Kind of think of them as small pebbles. Dogs shouldn't eat them, I have never heard of one doing so anyways. I can walk on them, it doesn't hurt.

We were trying to find a way to limit our grass too as the constant peeing in our lawn was causing dead spots. With our new 'safety kennel/run' they can't go all over our lawn and only have 1 area to do it. Sounds like your dogs use the same area, so training them shouldn't be hard if they are taught to go in the same place.

We didn't want our kennel/run to have grass as it would look horrid with our patio being back there as well. Sounds kind of the same as your pool area.

Our boarding kennel uses that concept and thats where I got my information. I love our kennel. The idea for the sand is for drainage. The kennels layout has 6-8" of sand and then 8-10" of peat gravel. They hose off the area with a diluted kennel solution. As for clay (we have some, not tons in our ground), is there someone you can ask? Call a landscaper maybe and see if drainage is necessary with a base of sand? The rain will go right through the peat gravel, so you wouldn't have any standing water. The sand should help absorb and relocate the water. At least around here is does.

Anyways, This is what we plan on doing. I am very excited for the outcome when we are finished. Hoping it may be an idea for you.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

I wouldn't recommend the supplements to prevent urine stains - I have heard of them causing serious health problems in some dogs which scares me.

I used to have Lincoln pee in a pea gravel pit and he was fine with it. But, it didn't work well for Scout - he would try to eat the gravel ('cause he eats anything and everything) and he really didn't like the feel of it under his feet. I think they get used to eliminating on a certain type of surface. My patio is covered with brick pavers, so the dogs just go potty out there and I hose it down several times a day. I am considering putting in high quality artificial turf (like those LPGA golf courses) to extend their area. A urine-burned lawn isn't too attractive, so I don't let the dogs go potty on my lawn anymore. I hope you find something that will work well for you - let us know so we can copy! :biggrin1:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Dora has taken a liking to peeing on those white garden stones that are in the flower area of our yard. While it wasn't made for her- she created her own area!


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

Thank you for the information, Kristy. This may work well for me. I am going to talk to a landscaper and see what they think of the idea. I really like the look of brick, so I may want to put brick pavers in the area, then pea gravel along the side under my apricot tree. There is dirt (mud in the winter) under the tree now, so I have a garden wire fence there so the dogs can't get all dirty. When I think of pea gravel, I think it may be used to resemble a stream bed, which would be pretty along the side. I will let you know what I end up doing. If anyone else has found something they like, I'd love to hear about it. I don't think I can afford the artificial turf. I've heard it's very expensive to install.

Karen


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

I'll be watching this thread with interest as it is a problem for us as well.

I, and esp my DH, hate the unsightly urine stains in the grass. We have a small picket fence area in a corner of our yard that is supposed to be a garden but I don't (or rather, can't, lol!) garden so we want to use as a potty area. Right now we have it mulched. Mulch is like velcro on our Hav's hair so that isn't a good solution.

I wouldn't use the supplements either. They change the pH of the urine which can't be good for a dog's overall health.


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

ama0722 said:


> Dora has taken a liking to peeing on those white garden stones that are in the flower area of our yard. While it wasn't made for her- she created her own area!


So Dora never tries to eat the stones? How large are they? Would they look good over a 15 x 50 foot area do you think?


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

I agree. The supplements to prevent urine stains scare me. I don't like to give anything to my dogs that I'm not very familiar with.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2008)

Peat gravel is at the largest size about 1/2" x 1/2" - they are not big at all. I would say that is a very high end estimate. Most are under that size.

I think it would be a great way to landscape around brick pavers. We use decorational stone (more expensive colored larger stones) around all of our landscaping. Definately works around bushes, trees and shrubs.

As for landscaping, we never like the mulched look personally, the stone looks so much cleaner and the wind/rain etc doesn't move it around like mulch, which has tendency to shift and settle with the weather. Plus mulch has to be replaced every year. We have had our landscaping stone for 8 years...haven't had to add any yet. Looks the same as when we put it in.

Let us know what the landscaper has to say. I think it was be a great option.


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## wannabe (Feb 3, 2008)

*Grass Options*

Hi Karen,

You might want to ask Elaine from Lil Pawz what she has at her house. If I remember correctly she has a large area of astro turf, but she also has some type of raise plastic decking in the puppy area with drainage. It looked nice and seemed to work well for multiple puppies/dogs. We also have the same type of clay soil up here in Sacramento.

Sharon


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Here is a link to the general size of pea gravel compared to a man's hand: http://www.turkelcorp.com/files/Pea_Gravel.JPG (The photo was too big to hotlink here.) Oh, here's another:







.

Just make sure that if you get the pea gravel that you have the drainage done well or the mud will just come up through it later too.

I have the opposite problem as you, Karen. Where my girls prefer to urinate, the grass is really lush, green and grows like weeds! They supplement my lawn! LOL Now if I could just get them over to a couple of particular areas, I'd be all set!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Yes, Elaine has the high-end (pricey) artificial turf. I haven't noticed a problem at Elaine's house, but in some places where it gets hot, that can really smell bad with multiple dogs in the summer. It needs to be rinsed often.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

These stones are often used as a boarder or in some gardens, i have seen some people use them in driveways, they are a lot bigger than the peastone, maybe an inch in size. Dora has never picked them up. I can't imagine they are comfy to walk on but she doesnt seem to mind. I will try and take a picture!


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

Thanks for the picture of the pea gravel, Kimberly. I think it looks nice! I think I will check out various pavers and see what would look nice next to the concrete around the pool, then also consider the pea gravel in the flower bed, tree area. Or I may just do all pea gravel. I really should get the opinion of a good landscaper. I want it to look nice too. I have been to Elaine's house and the astro turf works very well for her, but I think it might be too expensive for my budget. I guess I should check into it before I rule it out. I will let you all know what I decide to do (and take pictures too). 

I also have another backyard "problem" to deal with! A new two story house is being built next door and the bedroom windows look directly down into my backyard. There goes my privacy! So, I'm also trying to figure out how to screen my yard (quickly) before the new neighbors move in. Sigh.... I think I'd rather be in the country.



Karen


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

They sound very pretty Amanda. How do you like your new home??? Have you been to any dogs shows lately? I'll be in Victorville (Apple Valley). Any plans to go there? I would love to meet up with you finally!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Karen,
I have only gone to performance shows since I have been here, Dora's agility lessons are on Saturdays so i keep missing the HCSC meetings! I am definitely trying to get to some as well! When is Victorville? And are you going to bring your new lil boy- I would love to see him!!!

Amanda


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

*Amanda: Victorville*

Yes, the Victorville (Apple Valley) show is next weekend. I will be showing Tasha, but I will bring Rayo along for the socialization. He has all of his shots finally, so I need to get him out! I took him to Hanford last weekend. At first, he was such a scaredy! But, then he started having fun and forgot to be nervous. Do you live far from Victorville? It would be great to meet you there.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Karen,
Oh shoot- I am going to visit Anjanette's new arrivals on Sunday (puppy fix!!!) so I am going to have to miss it! Keep me posted when the next show you are going to. I am right outside of Pasadena so not too far! Good luck to you this weekend-I love the picture of Tasha in pink, I remember that photo you shared- nothing better than black dog with pink!

Keep me posted on any upcoming shows you plan to be at! 
Amanda


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

The next show we'll be at will be the Kern County show, right here in Bakersfield! It closes Wed, March 12th. I'm not sure when my next show will be after that. I bred Sage last week and will hopefully be expecting puppies around May 1st. I don't go too far from home when I have puppies. You can always come here for a puppy fix too!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

That Bakersfield show is tempting, Karen. I just talked to someone on the phone that doesn't live too far and told her I probably wasn't going though. Arrgh. I'll have to re-think it. I didn't realize you were in Hanford last weekend. I almost went on Saturday, but six hours roundtrip didn't sound so appealing with our gorgeous weather. I'd love to see you again!

By the way, I'm glad you're back here again!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Woo Hoo More puppies- I am definitely up for more socialization!!!! I will look into maybe a road trip on up there 

Amanda


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

Thanks, Kimberly! It would be wonderful to see you too! I'm debating about entering Tasha in the Saturday Kern Co show. An insider just told me that the judge that day is known for putting up the human end of the lead. I've been having such a hard time putting points on Tasha. She's half way to her championship and now she's not winning at all. I don't need the aggravation if that's the way it's going to be on Saturday, but I'll think about it. For sure, I will enter her on Sunday. 

It's fun being back here again. You guys are so helpful and have great ideas!


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

You're welcome here anytime, Amanda!


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Karen said:


> .... then also consider the pea gravel in the flower bed, tree area. Or I may just do all pea gravel.
> Karen


Karen, have you ever had pea gravel in your flower beds? We did in our last home and it made it virtually impossible to plant annuals in the Spring as it was too difficult to get past the rocks. I agree I like the look better than mulch but it's easier to plant w/mulch.

I just thought I'd share our experience and give you something to think about.


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

Thanks, Jan. I will certainly take that into consideration. It guess the pea gravel won't be practical if I want to plant anything new, but I'm not sure that I do. I'm happy with the apricot tree in the area and I have a few larger bushes, but that's it.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2008)

Yes, good point Jan, we have gravel instead of mulch..but we don't do any annuals. Just our trees and shrubs.

It would be a bugger to move around peat gravel to plant close together or put in more things. So best be, that the area, if you decide to do it, be totally finished with no more planting in sight.


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

That would definitely be do-able here as I'm not really planning on more planting, but if I did decide to plant more shrubs/bushes, I could do it before installing the pea gravel.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

I'm a bit late to this thread. Karen, just a word of warning... the pea gravel could easily wind up in the pool depending on how close it is to it. That could mean a clogged filter system. Rocks in the pool filter is definitely a :nono: Just something else to consider.

We seem to have the same problem as Kimberly. Tori's potty area has very lush grass growing in it. I thought that was very strange. Glad to see I'm not alone! However, it is much nicer to deal w/than burned spots.

The downtown area of our little town has installed the artificial turf in the medians between the sidewalks and street. I gotta tell you, it looks SO real. I had to actually touch it to determine if it was real or not. I have no idea what the cost is, though.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh drat. I was thinking that the Kern County KC shows fell in early April. There is no way I can drive that far in the last weekend of March. I should have looked before I typed.

As for Mr. Ramirez, he is a provisional judge so anything is bound to happen, but he was the judge that finished Piaget (over handlers too) with WD, BOW and BOS. I am nobody to him (Ramirez).  I'd go for it with Tasha!


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

We saw all kinds of artificial turf at a home show last weekend. There was a specific one called Dog Grass. It looked really nice and felt okay too. It is kind of expensive but the guy said it lasts a good 10 - 15 years. I'd be concerned about smell though he did say it had something to mitigate smell and needed only be rinsed off. I guess between walking outside and seeing some yellow spots and being assaulted by urine smells, I'd choose the yellow spots. It's a problem we struggle with too.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Karen,
I didn't take a pic but i found one, I am refering to the rock to the right of the house, while I have no clue what it costs, etc. I do know that Dora has made that her chosen local! It is the white rocks in the bottom right


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

OK, your reason for editing totally made me laugh! :laugh:


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm just incredibly jealous that you are in shorts and a tee!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I try to multitask too much!

Okay that was the day of 115F when we first moved in! It was only 60 something today!


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

"only" 60 something? LOL!!


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Yeah, it was "60 something" today, but the forecast for Saturday is for 80*!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

It has been 70 something all week here in the other part of the state. My dogs are spoled because they got to the dog park every day after work. They are California dogs and laying around my feet now.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I know what you mean, Cheryl! The puppies have gotten spoiled with going outdoors and refuse to use potty pads this week because I keep opening the door for them to go out and do their business. They caught on to the lawn very quick once the rain quit. We've been outside almost all day every day for the last week or more (except today). This could be really, really good for the new families, or more difficult. We'll see!


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

Ewww, I wouldn't like stinky artificial grass. I think you would need to be very diligent about washing it. Elaine would be the expert on this so I'll have to ask her about it. I'd take the yellow spots over stinky grass too.


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

What an adorable house, Amanda! The rocks look very nice! I think Dora has the right idea.


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

*Mr. Ramirez*

Thanks for your opinion on Mr. Ramirez, Kimberly. I'm going to go ahead and enter Tasha. It's only once per year that I don't have to go out of town for a dog show, so I'd better take advantage of it! I appreciate and trust your opinion (but you DO look like a professional handler, ya know...... and I don't!)

As for Mr. Ramirez, he is a provisional judge so anything is bound to happen, but he was the judge that finished Piaget (over handlers too) with WD, BOW and BOS. I am nobody to him (Ramirez).  I'd go for it with Tasha![/QUOTE]


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

We replaced ours with Easy Turf, an artificial grass. You can even bleach it every now and then.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

I have pea gravel in our new dog run area~
I like the way it looks, but it can be a challenge when you have runny poops, it's hard to get it all up~blech!
I scoop poop every morning and do a diluted bleach/water wash every few days. But I still can get knocked over by the smell sometimes~~ I guess that's just a given with so many dogs....ewwww! But it is going to be so nice to get our backyard "back" to ourselves! I can't wait for nice green lawn and a patio that doesn't stink in the hot sun! Woooo Hoooo


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Leslie said:


> I'm a bit late to this thread. Karen, just a word of warning... the pea gravel could easily wind up in the pool depending on how close it is to it. That could mean a clogged filter system. Rocks in the pool filter is definitely a :nono: Just something else to consider.
> 
> We seem to have the same problem as Kimberly. Tori's potty area has very lush grass growing in it. I thought that was very strange. Glad to see I'm not alone! However, it is much nicer to deal w/than burned spots.
> 
> The downtown area of our little town has installed the artificial turf in the medians between the sidewalks and street. I gotta tell you, it looks SO real. I had to actually touch it to determine if it was real or not. I have no idea what the cost is, though.


I LOVE your yard. You should show pictures of it. I wonder if it's the food we feed that might cause the grass problems? Leslie what do you feed? I used to have a problem with the grass but haven't in a couple of years. I wonder what changed?


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

JanB said:


> "only" 60 something? LOL!!


60 here is chilly! It got down to 55 last night while everyone was outside waiting to caucus and they were shivering so we brought everyone inside and we were packed like sardines....but warm until someone opened 2 doors. Somehow winter passed us by this year which is fine by me!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

For those of you that have burned grass areas, do you fertilize your lawn at all? Someone told me that the urine of the dogs is a natural fertilizer, but if you are manually fertilizing the grass too, it does double duty, which causes burning. I have no idea how much truth there is to that though.


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

mellowbo said:


> We replaced ours with Easy Turf, an artificial grass. You can even bleach it every now and then.


Wow, the Easy Turf is gorgeous! How long have you had it? Do you find that it smells with a lot of traffic? Just curious how many dogs you have. I have 5 Havanese, so I am wondering if it would hold up to that much usage? I like the longer length of your turf. Very pretty!


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## Karen (Aug 4, 2006)

mellowbo said:


> We replaced ours with Easy Turf, an artificial grass. You can even bleach it every now and then.





MopTop Havanese said:


> I have pea gravel in our new dog run area~
> I like the way it looks, but it can be a challenge when you have runny poops, it's hard to get it all up~blech!
> I scoop poop every morning and do a diluted bleach/water wash every few days. But I still can get knocked over by the smell sometimes~~ I guess that's just a given with so many dogs....ewwww! But it is going to be so nice to get our backyard "back" to ourselves! I can't wait for nice green lawn and a patio that doesn't stink in the hot sun! Woooo Hoooo


Hi Katie,

If the smell gets bad sometimes, do your neighbors ever complain? I notice that this area is right next to your fence line on the side of the house. I have an area like this that I could use, but I wouldn't want to have complaints from the neighbors. How do you get around that?


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I'm late to this thread......I've had the pool and pea gravel. The gravel did get in the pool. The stones Kimberly pictured are a “river stone” that come in many sizes. You do not want quarry gravel as it has sharp edges. You will need the sand base or you will have a build up of urine smell. A warning about the gravel, if you have leaves in the fall they are very hard to manage in gravel areas. The smaller the gravel the more it blows when trying to remove the leaves.

For privacy, a fast growing tree is the Leyland Cypress. Looks like a Christmas tree. It does get 20 feet tall very fast, but also needs 8 feet at the base.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Mellowbo,

Your turf looks really nice! I see two different heights - the shorter (where your dogs are sitting) and the taller. Are they both easy turf?

How long have you had it and how is it "weathering"?

My friend had a high-end turf installed in her yard for her Hav and she said it is easy to care for - she just hoses it off. Also, they told her not to put glass furniture on it because the sunlight might burn a hole in it.


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