# Collar or Harness



## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Just curious...what do you guys like better for the smaller breeds: a collar or a harness? My friend has a yorkie with a collapsing trachea, and her vet said that a harness is better for small dogs, but I'm thinking it just depends on the dog... Anyway, what do you guys use?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

It depends on the dog and the amount of training and the desire to do more training. A harness is good for a leisurely walk on a dog, trained or not. However, as the Hav gets older, you'll find that it also creates more matting points.

I use a harness in the car in lieu of a crate for a couple of my dogs. For walks, I prefer collars, but my dogs all have to learn to walk on a leash at an early age.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Kimberly,
How soon do you start them on a leash?


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## Alexa (Jun 17, 2007)

I met someone the other day that used a Puppia Harness on her little dog...it looked great and she had high praises for it.

http://bowsawowsa.com/product_info.php?products_id=112


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I use a harness, I've tried a collar but Gucci will choke at the tiniest pressure and it flips me out. I use several different kinds, the fabric harnesses are better to prevent mats, but I don't always trust the velcro to hold, so...I'll safety pin it.

Kara


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## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

Definitely a HARNESS!

I had Posted a Thread back in December about using harnesses because they're safer. 

I had witnessed a near doggie fatality as I was walking my Molly one day. 

I saw a little fuzz-ball (probably a Tzu) pull out of her collar and run into the street...she JUST got missed by a car. There's so much hair around the necks of some dogs, ours included, so a collar can easily slip off , especially if a dog gets startled and pulls back. :jaw:

The woman who was walking the Tzu was also using a retractable leash that, in her panic, she couldn't lock...that's what sent the dog out into the road.

I can tell you that it was the LAST time my Molly EVER wore a collar, and the LAST time I used a retractable leash (actually, one of our neighbor's dogs snapped the cable of her retractable! She didn't run, so no harm, but lesson learned!)

Re: the matts from the harnesses...for winter I bought a larger harness that fits OVER Molly's coat...no more neck and back matting (just everywhere else!)...

Maureen and Molly


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I also use a puppia harness on Kubrick. We both prefer it on longer walks so that's what we use.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

I use a collar for both my guys. Bogart just pulls way too much on a harness. With a collar he has to stop after a bit or he just hurts himself. I thought about going back to a harness...probably with Brando I will but Bogie...don't know.

Anyone try the buddy belts?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

trueblue said:


> Kimberly,
> How soon do you start them on a leash?


6 or 7 weeks old or when they come to my house if they weren't born here. Walking on a leash correctly is an important skill.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Kimberly, what do you do to start a pup well on their way to learning that skill. Any hints? :ear:
Walking on a leash, I agree, is an extremely important skill. I can imagine in conformation shows it is a must. Any suggestions from you would be greatly appreciated, as we could all learn extra tips to help our havs


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Since I have Ahnold one of Kimberly dogs I can attest that he is a good walker and he walks on a leash very well ..
I have used both a harness and a leash . I preferred a harness with Asta and he did well with it . He was easier to teach than Cosmo . Cosmo is a more determined guy .. 
Cosmo is not keen on a harness so I use a special collar with him which keeps his head up .. He was so resistant he just would not walk untilI switched to this .. .I am hoping to eventually get him back to a harness but for now we are still getting him used to being a good walker . He is doing so much better and Ahnold helps set the pace for him .. 
I use a harness to secure them in the car ..
There are so many different kinds of harnesses now - it is difficult to keep up with them all .. 
If you are interested in searching . We have had this discussion in a thread a couple of times


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

My dog is like Kara's, the slightest pressure of a leash on his collar causes him to choke. I have always used a harness . Their necks and airways are so delicate.


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## mom23girls (Nov 26, 2007)

I use a collar on Amy. She walks so well on a leash that I rarely have to tug at all & the slightest tug gets her attention! Never tried the harness.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

whitBmom said:


> Kimberly, what do you do to start a pup well on their way to learning that skill. Any hints? :ear:
> Walking on a leash, I agree, is an extremely important skill. I can imagine in conformation shows it is a must. Any suggestions from you would be greatly appreciated, as we could all learn extra tips to help our havs


Helen, I'm not sure I can really communicate how I train them via text. I use several different methods until we get each dog comfortable with their position next to me. For the ones that hate having a collar/leash on them, I encourage them to come up to my side and treat them. For the ones that like to pull ahead, I use the "psycho walk" method and change direction as soon as they pull. For the ones that sniff the ground, I give a short, sharp tug to the lead to get their head up. Positive training is much more effective with these guys so they get a lot of happy verbal feedback from me when they are doing it correctly. (Piaget really thinks his other name is "Good Boy" and he will turn to anyone who says that at a dog show, even if it wasn't directed at him. LOL) As soon as they lose their correct speed or placement, I try to correct it immediately, and continue praising them when they do it right.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I love when you say Piaget thinks his other name is "Good boy". Don't you just love how they look at you when they know they have done the right thing?  I love that. Oh and the "psycho walk" is great, just as they head in another direction, they are like "whaa?! where the heck is she going?" LOL I have gotten the look that I am crazy, but it has been well worth it. I am so happy I am using a method you have used with success! I have yet to work on the nose to the ground though... He loves to have it down on the ground and when its wet out there, he comes back with his entire muzzle and beard all soaking wet... LOL


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

whitBmom said:


> I have yet to work on the nose to the ground though... He loves to have it down on the ground and when its wet out there, he comes back with his entire muzzle and beard all soaking wet... LOL


Ditto on that! I'm just getting to the point where it's bothering me. Maybe because it's winter so his beard is just covered in wet and guck from the street. ewwwww! I think I need to use a collar to help bring his head up though. For everyday walks he doesn't pay as much attention with the harness on.


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

I just got the Puppia harness. When we use it Tessa pulls on it a lot, something she doesn't do with a collar. 

Although I use a 6 ft lead, I keep it pretty short in my left hand while holding the slack in my right. She's not allowed to sniff or stop (I potty her before we walk) unless I decide to let her and give her an OK command at an open field; we walk at a pretty fast clip and I stare straight ahead, not looking at her so she has to pay attention to me, not vice versa. I've only had to use the "psycho walk" a couple times  I do tell her what a good dog she is when she walks nicely w/o pulling.

So, I'm assuming since she doesn't feel the pressure of a collar around her neck she's thinking it's OK to pull at the harness. I swear I have the leash so short in my left hand her front legs are practically off the ground!

I think the harness is safer and I like that the leash doesn't get tangled up in her front legs when I do allow her some slack.

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Oliver is the opposite........... he will pull with a collar and walk with the puppia harness.
I wish I could help:decision:


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Oh, I just "answered" my own question. I had just ordered a Martingale collar but hadn't used it yet. I used it for Tessa's afternoon walk and it was perfect!! If she tried to pull ahead it tightened but never choked her like a regular collar and she'd fall back into place naturally . NO CHOKING! And it didn't slide around like her regular collar so she didn't get her legs tangled in the leash.

It was the best walk yet! I'm thinking for Tessa we'll have to put the harness away until she is well-trained to heel. Until then we'll use the Martingale collar.

A caution: this collar is only for training and walks, not to be left on all day or when crated.

(Thanks Helen!!)


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## Sunnygirl (Jun 1, 2007)

We use a regular collar for walks. We use a harness in the car seat and it definitely causes more matting, although now that we've gotten the pups cut short I doubt it would make much of a difference. Nico and Desi learned to walk very nicely on a leash with a prong collar (with a cloth cover) and they are really good on walks these days so I never have to pull on the leash. Our trainer says we should walk them with the prong collar, but I've seen those things come apart too many times - I'll use them inside or in a controlled environment, but not out near busy streets.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

JanB said:


> Oh, I just "answered" my own question. I had just ordered a *Martingale collar *but hadn't used it yet. I used it for Tessa's afternoon walk and it was perfect!! If she tried to pull ahead it tightened but never choked her like a regular collar and she'd fall back into place naturally . NO CHOKING! And it didn't slide around like her regular collar so she didn't get her legs tangled in the leash.
> 
> It was the best walk yet! I'm thinking for Tessa we'll have to put the harness away until she is well-trained to heel. Until then we'll use the Martingale collar.
> 
> ...


Martingale!!!!!:whoo:
Thank you Helen also!!


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

I doubt that these are very practical, but look how CUTE they are!!

http://www.k9closet.com/twofacedsatin.htm


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

mintchip said:


> Martingale!!!!!:whoo:
> !!


I've had several dogs I've trained come out of that collar in a relaxed position. I'm almost to the point where I think retractable leashes should be banned. My dr was walking his dog on one and it wrapped around his legs and he fell and broke his hip. My gf was walking her dog, same thing, but she broke her ankle in so many places that she's got 12 screws in it. 
I've come so close to hitting dogs that people are walking with them. They have 25 feet of room to play and walk about 6 feet from the street. That leaves a lot of room for the dog to run into the street.
We just use show leads for our dogs on walks, even the standard poodle. I gave up on collars for my own dogs but not in training.


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## suzyfrtz (Nov 12, 2007)

I switched to a harness early on for Caz because of his trachea problems. The harness works well when walking. Here is my problem. I leave the harness on all day, because (1) his ID tags are affixed to it (he has a chip but the tags are more obvious, of course) and (2) the snap gets a little "snapless" when I take the harness on and off...

Well, he chews on the harness! He has chewed one almost in half, and chewed the chest strap on the second completely off. So now I am back to taking the harness on and off between walks. 

Is there an ideal situation?
Suzy


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Suzy, you can always get a new ID tag for him and put it on a collar for everyday wear. That's what we did with Kubrick. His ID tag also has his rabies vac number and you can probably add his license tag number too if your city requires it.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

I saw some collars that have names and numbers on them--they claim you can leave them on all the time.
Oliver and Comet have harnesses


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

Here are collars with the names/numbers embroidered on them...

http://www.k9closet.com/satintagcollars.htm


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

I can't vouch for the information, but one of my dog trainers said that you may want to wait to use a harness on a young dog - they are still growing in the chest area and that puts unnecessary pressure on this area. We use martingale collars here. Kimberly has some great tips. The reverse walk really does work.


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

I use a harness on my dogs because the streets we walk on are fairly busy and I've had collars that I thought were tight enough slip off their heads if they suddenly pull backwards. Be careful too of the slip on harnesses (one piece harness/leash). Same thing happened. They loosen over time and Mindy figured out how to back up and pull her legs through and escape. I do have some fabric harnesses and if they have velcro I also look for ones that have buckles as well or a metal fastener in addition to the velcro. Of course I have to be very careful with Mindy as she's an escape artist- if she were male I would have changed her name to Houdini!!!


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## suzyfrtz (Nov 12, 2007)

The collar with tags or ID embroidered makes alot of sense. Now why didn't I think of that!! 

Caz has slipped a leg out of his harness too! I am going to get a collar for him to wear all the time and a harness for his walks. 

Change of subject: Hartman Studio, is this your surname? My paternal grandma was a Hartman and I have done a Hartman genealogy. My Hartmans were from Kingston, Ontario, after the American Revolution. :focus:

Thanks everyone for your ideas and help!

Suzy


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## hartman studio (Feb 14, 2008)

Suzy, Hartman is my husband's last name. German descendents from Pennsylvania. Still lots of them there. I think at one time a couple of generations ago it was spelled Hartmann and someone dropped the extra n. I don't know too much else. Jocelyn


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## suzyfrtz (Nov 12, 2007)

I believe the two 'n's" were the original German spelling. We could start a discussion on genealogy but that's another subject for another forum! 

Lots of Pennsylvania Dutch Germans in Pennsylvania - that's where my husband's Frantz's came from. 

:focus:

 Suzy


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## PennyPoco (Mar 20, 2008)

*Do you need to break them in to wearing a collar all day?*

About collars - we just purchased rolled leather ones for Penny and Poco. The snap-on nylon ones were starting to wear, and twice now they were able to break free from them. I tried harnesses but neither the puppies nor I were able to get the hang of it. On and off takes way too much time for trips outside to poop and pee. We don't take walks yet; so much ice and snow on the ground that the footing is treacherous. Already slipped and landed on my butt once when I didn't see the ice crust on the snow. Kept hold of those leashes though, and the little ones stayed clear of me somehow.

Okay, back to my concern: Is it possible for puppies to become distressed by a change like wearing a collar all day? Up until today, we only put collars on to walk them outside. Today, shortly after I put on their new leather collars, Penny pee'd on the floor 3 times -- and this was after she pee'd outside. Also, they both seemed unusually standoff-ish and disinterested. I've been thinking maybe this was because we left them crated for 2.5 hours this afternoon while we were out shopping (FOR THEM, not us!). We rarely leave them alone and when we do it's usually for less than one hour. I'm pleased to say that they did NOT pee in the crate while we were gone. 

Am I acting like I'm "one of them" when I speak on their behalf and analyze their behavior? Tell me I'm not the only one who does this, please!

Alice


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Of coarse you are not alone, Alice, when you analyze their behavior. Here is a thought. Perhaps the dogs associated wearing the collar with going outside to pee. When they wear the collar it is OK to pee, regardless of where they are. 

Brutus wears a collar all the time, but Brutus picks on Roxie's collar when she wears it so she only wears hers on walks.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I'm not sure about that, though Cheryl's thought definitely seems viable. Kubrick doesn't wear a collar every day because we live in a high rise condo. Even if he were to run out the door, there is no way he could get out of the hallway. However, when we go to someone's house for the day or for a couple of days, I leave it on him all the time. The only thing I notice that's different is that he every once in a while tries to bite it and scratches it a lot. Other than that, he acts totally normal. Wish I could help you, but I think they will be fine in the next day or two, just give it some time.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

trueblue said:


> How soon do you start them on a leash?


I use show leads with the padded necks on my dogs. It's a good idea to start leash training before the puppy leaves it's Mom. Usually people have a flight with a stop or a long car ride and imagine putting a leash and collar on in an airport or in the middle of nowhere for the first time to potty your dog. There's already enough stress and adding that to the mix seems too much to me.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

PennyPoco said:


> About collars - we just purchased rolled leather ones for Penny and Poco. The snap-on nylon ones were starting to wear, and twice now they were able to break free from them. I tried harnesses but neither the puppies nor I were able to get the hang of it. On and off takes way too much time for trips outside to poop and pee. We don't take walks yet; so much ice and snow on the ground that the footing is treacherous. Already slipped and landed on my butt once when I didn't see the ice crust on the snow. Kept hold of those leashes though, and the little ones stayed clear of me somehow.
> 
> Okay, back to my concern: Is it possible for puppies to become distressed by a change like wearing a collar all day? Up until today, we only put collars on to walk them outside. Today, shortly after I put on their new leather collars, Penny pee'd on the floor 3 times -- and this was after she pee'd outside. Also, they both seemed unusually standoff-ish and disinterested. I've been thinking maybe this was because we left them crated for 2.5 hours this afternoon while we were out shopping (FOR THEM, not us!). We rarely leave them alone and when we do it's usually for less than one hour. I'm pleased to say that they did NOT pee in the crate while we were gone.
> 
> ...


Depending on the dog, any change can throw them for a loop...even something as simple as moving furniture in the house. Some puppies wouldn't notice a collar, others it could really bother until they get used to it.
And no, you're not the only one  Feel better now?


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## PennyPoco (Mar 20, 2008)

Thank you Cheryl, Lina, and Jan. It's so helpful to get feedback from other Havanese owners to get a sense of the "norm." 

Cheryl, your thought that they might associate the collar with pee time was quite intuitive. I can't be sure and while there's no proof, I would love to believe it -- so for now, I'll go with that theory. One thing I do know for sure is this breed is very sensitive and social - they want to please us and they HATE to be scolded. 

Today, Penny and Poco are happy and peppy once again - bouncing off the walls as usual. It looks like we've gotten past whatever it was that upset them yesterday.

I appreciate all your input and support eace:


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## Jacklyn Weeks (Dec 23, 2007)

I keep Nick and Norah's collars on them all day. It makes me feel better if they somehow got out that they are wearing their collars. The only time I take the collars off is when they're being groomed and when Nick sleeps. I don't like keeping Nick's on too tight during the day but I'm afraid if it's lose at night something might happen to him in his crate. I just feel better taking his off at night. He however, uses a harness when we go on walks. Norah prefers to just have a collar on.
1 Question: How do you keep the normal leashes from getting caught all around them? I've been using a retractable leash with Norah but she is getting VERY strong and I'm sure one of these days she will be able to snap it. It's like she doesn't even notice the pressure on her neck and she pulls against the leash like no other! Also with all this bad talk about them I get nervous. We have 3 of the normal leashes too but they seem to get all caught up in them. Any ideas?


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

Bella suddenly began balking during her morning walk. We tried everything and nothing worked until we got a Puppia harness. It's great for walking and great for travel. We got it from www.k9instyleclassic.com They give free shipping and I found it was cheaper than on Amazon. The hardest part was deciding which color to get!


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## imamurph (Apr 15, 2008)

I think I need to find a new type of harness, as the Puppia ones do matt the hair after a long walk..


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## marisoma (Jan 20, 2008)

nancyf said:


> Bella suddenly began balking during her morning walk. We tried everything and nothing worked until we got a Puppia harness. It's great for walking and great for travel. We got it from www.k9instyleclassic.com They give free shipping and I found it was cheaper than on Amazon. The hardest part was deciding which color to get!


I recently bought a Puppia harness and LOVE it! I may buy another just to have an extra. Prior to this I used a collar which Giotto constantly pulled on and gagged himself and a regular harness (gentle leader) which no matter how tight I buckled it he could still wiggle a leg (or more ) free and be out of it. I worried I would lose him on a walk. Someone in our training classes had a vest harness (not a Puppia) and recommended them over the standard harness, so I searched online and found these. Giotto likes it much better and hasn't been able to escape yet. I also find he doesn't pull as much in it. So far we love it.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

marisoma said:


> I recently bought a Puppia harness and LOVE it! I may buy another just to have an extra. Prior to this I used a collar which Giotto constantly pulled on and gagged himself and *a regular harness (gentle leader) which no matter how tight I buckled it he could still wiggle a leg (or more ) free and be out of it. I worried I would lose him on a walk.* Someone in our training classes had a vest harness (not a Puppia) and recommended them over the standard harness, so I searched online and found these. Giotto likes it much better and hasn't been able to escape yet. I also find he doesn't pull as much in it. So far we love it.


Oliver would get out of that also...... I returned it and was told I wasn't putting it on right :frusty: The clerk tried 3 different sizes none worked. He got out just as fast. The couple of minutes it was on it worked well:biggrin1:


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

I just saw these in the newest "Modern Dog" and think they look great.
They are in the Stuff We Love section and look similar to collars, with the same kind of buckle, but with 2 holes where the legs go. It LOOKS like it would work really well. This is their description:

The Buddy Belt harness looks great and fits perfectly. It's both comfortable and easy to put on, but most importantly, it protects your pulling dog from choking himself and injuring his neck. $19...buddy-belts.com

I think someone needs to try one and report back! Looks like lots of great colors to choose from too!

Beverly


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I really find if your dog knows how to walk properly a collar is best with less matting. If I walk Dasher separate from the girls <BG> Kathy taught him to properly walk on a leash and he never pulls so a collar works perfect. However, when we are all walking, it turns into who can run the fastest so I do harnesses and just try to brush them when I get home.

Amanda


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

BeverlyA said:


> I just saw these in the newest "Modern Dog" and think they look great.
> They are in the Stuff We Love section and look similar to collars, with the same kind of buckle, but with 2 holes where the legs go. It LOOKS like it would work really well. This is their description:
> 
> The Buddy Belt harness looks great and fits perfectly. It's both comfortable and easy to put on, but most importantly, it protects your pulling dog from choking himself and injuring his neck. $19...buddy-belts.com
> ...


Beverly--Is this what you mean???


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Yes, that's it! Do you have one or are you considering one?
What do you think about the design?

Beverly


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Yes I have one for Oliver and it is OK......
I haven't found a harness I really like but it does work. It was hard to find the right size.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

well, not exactly a ringing endorsement, but not bad either, lol.
I guess we need to keep looking around.

Beverly


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## Salsa's Mom (Mar 18, 2008)

Does anyone have the alpine rolled nylon step in harness from timberwolf pet products? I just bought a leash from them and have ordered the collar, but the store didn't carry the harness. It looks comfortable and easy to get on. I was wondering if it will cause mats.

http://timberwolfpetproducts.com/harnesses.htm


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

BeverlyA said:


> well, not exactly a ringing endorsement, but not bad either, lol.
> I guess we need to keep looking around.
> 
> Beverly


I liked it but when it got wet


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## ginny (Mar 29, 2008)

Wish I had read this thread earlier, I also bought the gentle leader and in no time Suzy has a leg out. I kept her collar on her and then hooked the leash to the collar. I keep trying the gentle leader, it did a nice job helping to direct her while in the store. Sounds like they are duds for the Hav's.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

When I contacted the company the guy said--"I could take it to a shoe repair place to have it altered????"


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## ginny (Mar 29, 2008)

He does not sound helpful or like he knows what he is talking about. Guess I should look into returning Suzy's gentle leader. Thanks for the response.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I have always used a harness, especially with my bigger dogs. I just feel more comfortable using a harness. I didn't buy anything fancy, just the type they sell in the major pet chains. Since they are only in them when we go for walks, it doesn't cause them to mat.


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## marisoma (Jan 20, 2008)

ginny said:


> Wish I had read this thread earlier, I also bought the gentle leader and in no time Suzy has a leg out. I kept her collar on her and then hooked the leash to the collar. I keep trying the gentle leader, it did a nice job helping to direct her while in the store. Sounds like they are duds for the Hav's.


I liked that the gentle leader kept Giotto from pulling and it was great at guiding him while walking, but he consistently wiggled out of it. I am keeping it on the chance that it might fit him better when he gets a little bigger but right now we are using the Puppia.

I do like the harness better than the collar just for my own piece of mind that he is not hurting his neck by pulling. He is much better about that than he used to be but still pulls if he sees something in the distance.


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