# Male marking



## n05ina (Oct 19, 2012)

I talked to a wonderful breeder yesterday! I am looking for a adult havanese to join my family sometime in March or in the springtime. The breeder told me that she will have a 3 year old male that she would be willing to give to a good home. She did tell me that he marks but only when the females are in heat. I have been told in the past that I should get a female because the males will mark. Is this true? She explained that they ONLY mark when females are in heat and that he will be neutered before I take him home. I also have a male fixed dog at home. I don't want the hav to be marking all over the house because of a dominance thing. So any suggestions? What should I do? The male she has available she said is very sweet, has a lot of personality and loves everyone! Will he not mark anymore after being fixed? Or will he still possibly mark because there's another male in the house? There is no female dogs that live here though so not sure if I may be worrying for nothing. She also told me that most havs are not 100% house-trained. She said that hers are afraid of going outside in heavy rains but they love the snow. She places puppy pads near the door when weather is too bad and they go directly on the pads. She said that the male she may have for me hasn't had any accidents in a very long time. Would love to get some feedback please!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

not sure about the marking thing as I have a female, but I do have a bit of a problem with the comment about "most havs are not 100% housetrained"!?? wth? If they are raised RIGHT, started with house training at the (ethical) breeders, and brought home to loving families who take the time and LEARN how to house train properly havs CAN and ARE 100% house trained!!! They CAN also be trained to use pee pads or an indoor potty option, but in my mind the are still 'house trained' and aren't peeing all over the house! Sorry. that comment just ruffled my feathers a bit...


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## n05ina (Oct 19, 2012)

I totally understand what you mean. I thought the same thing at first. But she did say that they will go outside and potty as long as its not monsoon like weather. She said otherwise they will potty on potty pads. She said her dogs don't go potty in the house unless its on potty pads. So I thought to myself well that means that they are house-trained. I have never had a small dog so I would hope that I could take him outside to potty all the time. And we do have a small cemented area in our backyard with a overhang so the dog that is afraid of harsh rain should be able to go potty outside with no problem. The breeder said the same thing.


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## Cailleach (Jan 30, 2010)

I know many older male dogs that have been neutered and it did not stop them from marking. I think most honest vets will agree that not all dogs will stop it because they are fixed.


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## n05ina (Oct 19, 2012)

That's what I was afraid of. :-( Do you think that if the breeder took him to another house that had another fixed male in it that it would be a good idea to see if he still marks or not?She made it very clear that he only marks when females are in heat. But we do have a fixed male that lives at our home too. So not sure if that may cause the hav to mark as well.


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## siewhwee (Sep 24, 2009)

I think you might also have to keep an eye on your dog, because he might mark too, especially with a strange new dog in his house. We brought our Hav to a friend's house for a visit. He is neutered, but we were all surprised when our friend's dog (also neutered), started marking all over the house, the minute we walked in, while our Hav , did not.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

n05ina said:


> I talked to a wonderful breeder yesterday! I am looking for a adult havanese to join my family sometime in March or in the springtime. The breeder told me that she will have a 3 year old male that she would be willing to give to a good home. She did tell me that he marks but only when the females are in heat. I have been told in the past that I should get a female because the males will mark. Is this true? She explained that they ONLY mark when females are in heat and that he will be neutered before I take him home. I also have a male fixed dog at home. I don't want the hav to be marking all over the house because of a dominance thing. So any suggestions? What should I do? The male she has available she said is very sweet, has a lot of personality and loves everyone! Will he not mark anymore after being fixed? Or will he still possibly mark because there's another male in the house? There is no female dogs that live here though so not sure if I may be worrying for nothing. She also told me that most havs are not 100% house-trained. She said that hers are afraid of going outside in heavy rains but they love the snow. She places puppy pads near the door when weather is too bad and they go directly on the pads. She said that the male she may have for me hasn't had any accidents in a very long time. Would love to get some feedback please!


I can't say about the marking issue... my gut tells me that you will have to TRAIN this guy that marking in the house is not OK. I'd like to hear what some of the breeders on the forum have to say about this one.

OTOH, she is absolutely wrong that most Havs aren't 100% house trained. Maybe hers aren't, but MANY are.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

I can see that about Yorkies as they are notoriously hard to house train, or train at all for that matter, but a well bred well raised Havaese is a very bright toy dog and should train. The marking thing seems to be more hormonal so I am curious about this too.


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## tokipoke (Feb 13, 2012)

I think you'll be fine! If this 3 year old boy is what you want, you should adopt him! Don't let the marking thing stop you. 

You have to treat every dog, no matter what gender or age, like they are a puppy whenever they come to a new environment. There are dogs that are raised from puppyhood in a home, and if they go to a friend's house or a grooming salon, they will go IN the building! Some dogs will not go in new environments, but some will due to new smells or the fact that "this isn't my home."

I got Louis when he was 2 years old. He was intact until I got him. I also have a neutered male in the house. Louis was a show dog and was only used to going in an ex-pen, and he was around intact females all the time. I'd say he was not housetrained at all when I got him. He did mark in my house for the first week, but that's becuase my husband wasn't as vigilant as I was to let him out all of the time. I went to puppy basics with him. The first week, he'd also pee over my other male dog's pee. The first few months were a lot of work, but now we are at a point where I have been letting him sleep on the bed with me. Before, he would be crated cause I couldn't trust him to hold it overnight. He can definitely hold it, but I wasn't sure if he would know to hold it until I took him out. I've had Louis for 10 months now. The first week was rocky. I thought I made a mistake. The first 2-3 months were hard (always being so watchful). By 6 months, he REALLY settled in, and I just kept up with the potty routine. Now by 10 months, he's good in the house. I take him to work with me and he will still go in the salon! But I can't hold that against him, to him, that's not his home and there are so many other dog smells, he will poop. He has marked once in the salon. I had an intact dog that sprayed on the floor, I thought I cleaned it well, but Louis marked over it. He does not indicate when he has to go, so I never know! I just take him out on a schedule. He's stayed in hotels with me and never messed in there. I even put out a puppy pad and he never used it - I don't think he even knows what it is. Some dogs need more of a schedule than others, it really depends on the dog you get. You just have to find out what works. If you don't want to put in a lot of effort into potty training, then make sure the dog you get is reliably potty trained. Just remember that marking and just peeing is different.


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## n05ina (Oct 19, 2012)

Thanks all for the advice and feedback! I have not met the breeder or the dog yet. The plan is to meet her at a dog show in grayslake at the end of this month. Her name is Hannah kolzow. Many of my breeder friends have talked highly of her and referred me to her. I also am emailing back and forth a breeder named Karen Hall. She is located in Wolcott, Indiana. Does anyone know about either of these breeders?


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Male dogs are not the only ones to mark. A female can do it also. Milo, after I got Bailey, did mark for awhile. That was years ago, and before his neutering. Recently I was finding accidents in my house and it was driving me crazy. I would yell at Milo (and Bailey) when it got bad. Turned out, after having both boys in belly bands for over a week whenever they were in the house, that Milo was never the culprit. I was shocked because I was so sure it was him. Now, until I have concentrated time to watch his every move, Bailey wears a belly band in the house so we're both less crazed. It is, btw, almost always dry, but until it's 100%, it will remain this way.

In the end, I would agree with taking the dog if you want him and work with him to cure (if it still exists) the marking. Use a belly band in the house so you don't have to deal with the urine scents and damage.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

My boys are both fixed. They don't mark inside but they go crazy outside! Once in awhile if I take them to someone's house that has dog accidents, Scudder will try to mark. One firm correction and he won't try again.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

My Lhasa who is 16 was a stud dog he marked when I got him and was not house trained. If there is a female in heat close he needs to be watched even today, he also howls and is miserable. I had to train him not to mark in the house just like regular house training, you also must wash high on the walls while training. Just like Linda my guys even the girls mark like crazy outside, they do not in the house. I maintained a stud dog for years who never marked in the house even with females in heat. I would not count out a good tempered happy dog for marking, but you need to be willing to make a committment to training.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lfung5 said:


> My boys are both fixed. They don't mark inside but they go crazy outside! Once in awhile if I take them to someone's house that has dog accidents, Scudder will try to mark. One firm correction and he won't try again.


I watch Kodi like a hawk if we're in someone else's house where I know there's a dog that has accidents. It's surprising how many people don't admit it. But if I see Kodi doing a lot of sniffing around in an area, it's back on leash until we leave that person's house! I don't want him to get the idea that that is OK EVER.


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## n05ina (Oct 19, 2012)

I was thinking of asking the breeder if she has ever had the male in a home with another male that is fixed. Just to see if he will try and mark there to try and become alpha. The breeder I have been speaking with said that some breeds are more known to mark because they are more dominant breeds. I also am emailing back and forth with two other breeders that are located farther away from me. Each has a female that they are looking to home in June or July. They say that both of their females are house-trained and have the temperments that I am looking for. Though they don't seem to be as reputable as the breeder that is closer to me and has a 3 year old male. It's definitely tough thinking of the right questions to ask but from what I have read, heard and seen so far the IL breeder is much more responsible.


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## DiegoCF_Boston (Apr 12, 2011)

Diego isn't fixed (haven't had the money for it), and he'll be 2 on the 15th

We just bought a house last February and when we moved in, Diego pooped about two times total inside the house since we've moved in...which was really our fault because instead of having someone watch them, we kept them at the new house while we were setting up and running errands and the like.

He's NEVER marked inside the house before. Even when he was a teeny pup, he's never marked inside the house. I honestly don't even remember him trying to lift his leg OR crouch down to attempt marking. While we walk him through the nature preserves or even down the street though, that's a completely different topic! He'll lift his leg for anything, whether stuff needs to be expelled or not!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

n05ina said:


> I was thinking of asking the breeder if she has ever had the male in a home with another male that is fixed. Just to see if he will try and mark there to try and become alpha. The breeder I have been speaking with said that some breeds are more known to mark because they are more dominant breeds. I also am emailing back and forth with two other breeders that are located farther away from me. Each has a female that they are looking to home in June or July. They say that both of their females are house-trained and have the temperments that I am looking for. Though they don't seem to be as reputable as the breeder that is closer to me and has a 3 year old male. It's definitely tough thinking of the right questions to ask but from what I have read, heard and seen so far the IL breeder is much more responsible.


Marking has nothing to do with dominance. It is the way dogs communicate with each other. "Postcards", if you will. Neutered males and females mark too. Kodi is a very mellow guy will happily mark where another dog has marked outdoors. He knows that marking is not allowed indoors, but I also try to keep him out of situations where I know that other dogs have marked indoors.

In Europe, very, very few male dogs are neutered, and this just isn't a problem. Intact males are taught from the beginning that marking in the house is not acceptable, just like pottying in the house is not acceptable. It's not that they don't mark... walking with my cousin's intact Schnauzer in Germany takes FOREVER, because she allows him to stop and mark repeatedly outdoors (her choice... this can be trained too) but he would never EVER think of marking in the house.

I agree with the people who have said, get the dog that is the best fit for you and your family. Just know that whichever one you get, even those girls that are supposedly completely house trained, there will be an adjustment period. There may be accidents, and you will PROBABLY have to do at least a certain amount of house training.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

We have three intact males, and one neutered male, Keeper, who was a stud dog when he was younger. The intact males will mark when there is a girl in heat, or coming into heat. At the first signs of one coming in heat-the other girls are actually the first indicator- the boys have to stay in the dog room until it's completely over with.

If the other dog in the house has not marked, or other dogs have not had "accidents" anywhere, there will be nothing for him to mark on top of.

Our first stud dog, will be 16 very soon, went to live with another family when he was 10 and had been neutered several years before. He has never had an accident in their house. They have another female dog.

I don't know how long it takes for the hormones to leave the system. Keeper will mark when the other boys mark.

When there are no females with any signs of heat, the boys are fine in the house.

These dogs are very easy to train for someone who can pay attention. Most of ours have never had an "accident" in the house. Be very dilligent the first few weeks, and you should have no problems later.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

krandall said:


> I watch Kodi like a hawk if we're in someone else's house where I know there's a dog that has accidents. It's surprising how many people don't admit it. But if I see Kodi doing a lot of sniffing around in an area, it's back on leash until we leave that person's house! I don't want him to get the idea that that is OK EVER.


Yes! I am like the police when it comes to marking I watch him like a hawk. If he is going to try it will be in the first 5 minutes. So I literally follow him around for 5 minutes! Then if I am unsure, I will put his bad boy pants on. They are always dry when i take them off though.

My dog sitter takes them to her house once in awhile. I tell her repeatedly to watch him and correct him and he will never try again. She doesn't listen to me and he has a field day at her house! She say, Scudder peed through his belly band again.....ugh.

My sister has a beautiful home. My guys are their pretty often. Years ago when she first moved in, Fred tried to mark her custom curtains! I caught him before he did it and my guys have never tried to mark in her house since! They know which houses are fair game. These guys are not dumb!


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## tokipoke (Feb 13, 2012)

The first day I had Louis, he marked in the house. It was my fault because I should have been more proactive and walked him before bed. I took him to the backyard and he didn't do anything. And then he peed/marked in the house. He also tried to mount my neutered male poodle. My poodle is 27" and around 65lbs. Of course Louis waited till my poodle was laying down. I told Louis a firm NO and he never tried humping him again. Louis also got possessive over toys and food, but that soon settled down. He was testing the boundaries of the pack to see where he fit in. This is all normal. You need to establish a good relationship and teach what the boundaries are - this goes for both new and resident dogs. I know someone who recently got a neutered male in the home, and they already have another neutered male. The resident male is obsessed with trying to hump the new male and licking the new dog's genitals. She says that's ALL he does during the day when he isn't sleeping. Even this type of thing can be trained out of them - but overall, two neutered males will get along just fine. Once they know the routine in YOUR home, they will not mark. However, new places are free game. But I want to point out that Louis has never marked in my parent's home, in-law's home, or hotels.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

lfung5 said:


> Yes! I am like the police when it comes to marking I watch him like a hawk. If he is going to try it will be in the first 5 minutes. So I literally follow him around for 5 minutes! Then if I am unsure, I will put his bad boy pants on. They are always dry when i take them off though.
> 
> My dog sitter takes them to her house once in awhile. I tell her repeatedly to watch him and correct him and he will never try again. She doesn't listen to me and he has a field day at her house! She say, Scudder peed through his belly band again.....ugh.
> 
> My sister has a beautiful home. My guys are their pretty often. Years ago when she first moved in, Fred tried to mark her custom curtains! I caught him before he did it and my guys have never tried to mark in her house since! They know which houses are fair game. These guys are not dumb!


I LOVE the "bad boy pants"!

Actually, when you think of it from their perspective, how are they supposed to know that ALL houses are off-limits?... Especially if they can smell that other dogs have peed and/or marked there too! I think it takes years of saying, "not here, and not here, and not here..." until they have really generalized this.

Kodi had NEVER marked in someone else's house until I took him back to visit the King's. He dutifully used one of their (numerous) litter boxes to pee when he was indoors and needed to, but at one point, with us all standing there, he marked on a dog bed on the floor. Pam told me that several other visiting dogs had done the same thing. (it had been thoroughly washed in between, but dog noses are VERY good!) Because we caught him in the act, and I made my displeasure IMMEDIATELY known, he didn't try it again.

I think that one thing many pet owners don't understand about dog brains (and I only learned from working with our trainers) is that dogs are notoriously poor at generalizing information. To get back to raising puppies, that's why many people know their puppy is totally reliable in the kitchen and family room, decide they are "fully trained", so give them unsupervised access to the whole house, and then are shocked when the pup, who, according to them, KNOWS where to go, "deliberately" pees and poops various other places in the house.


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## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

Oreo was neutered at 8 month but he marks like no tomorrow.

Our typical daily walk is...walk...lamp post..mark...walk tree...mark...walk...next lamp post...mark...walk...next tree...mark...

You can imagine in an urban street how many trees and lamp posts are paralleling the sidewalk.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

I have a 1/2 hav and 1/2 shih tzu, Ollie. and after talking to the vet, I was going to wait till he was 1 yr old, to get him fixed so he could grow to his full size. He started marking at 18 wks old, and I think he was 8 months old, he marked a female co-worker of mine, then at a havanese puppy meet up, on a off leash walk, he tried to mark 3 different women. he's fixed now, and 3 yrs old, but yesterday he was on a playdate with a new female hav, and new ppl. he tried to mark the female owner, twice. I stopped him, but um, he's a marker.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

Brody will be 2 in February and so far he's shown zero signs of marking behaviour inside or out. Hopefully that doesn't change. He likes to sniff everything thoroughly, but hasn't shown any need to pee on top of what he smells. Ha ha.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kodi was close to 3 before he marked for the first time. And he STILL only marks in areas where a lot of other dogs have been marking, like at shows or training centers.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

EEEEK...Gonna keep my fingers crossed on him not starting it! ha ha


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## jessegirl (May 13, 2011)

krandall said:


> I watch Kodi like a hawk if we're in someone else's house where I know there's a dog that has accidents. It's surprising how many people don't admit it. But if I see Kodi doing a lot of sniffing around in an area, it's back on leash until we leave that person's house! I don't want him to get the idea that that is OK EVER.


Definitely good thinking here.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

misstray said:


> EEEEK...Gonna keep my fingers crossed on him not starting it! ha ha


It's fine with me if he does it outside ON HIS TIME. When we're on a walk, though we WALK... we do NOT dilly dally to sniff posts and trees.:biggrin1: And indoors...he'd better not even THINK about marking. THat's why I watch him closely in homes where I'm not sure HOW "house trained" the resident dogs are.


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