# 5 Myths About Treats



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

by Eric Goebelbecker.

1.Treats are bribes. This myth is the old standard. The "Greensleeves" of treat disparagement, if you will. Let's be clear: a bribe and a reinforcer are not the same thing. A bribe is produced before the desired behavior, a reinforcer is produced after the behavior. Yes, some people do show their dogs a treat before asking them to do something. They're doing it wrong. 
2.If you use food, your dogs will not obey you without it. Here again is a myth based on bad training. The only reason your dog would refuse to perform without food is because she's used to seeing it beforehand. You're doing it wrong. 
3.Dogs should work because they want to please you. Some people seem to think that dogs should find working for their people inherently rewarding, like Jeeves and Wooster, or Smithers and Burns. When you think about it, it's pretty silly. Yes, it's true that dogs and humans have lived side-by-side for millennia, and as a result we are uniquely suited to work together, but the idea that this relationship is so one-sided that dogs will perform for no tangible reward makes no sense and is anthropomorphism, plain and simple. It's nice, it's romantic, and it makes for a great tear-jerker, but sorry folks; Disney dogs exist only in Disney movies. 
4.Dogs should work for praise. Closely related to the the previous myth is the idea that dogs find praise inherently rewarding. Some dogs actually do find praise rewarding, and it's also possible to condition praise as a reinforcer (it may even happen as a side effect of a good relationship), but the idea that all or even most dogs are eager to work for just a pat on the head or a "good dog" is more fantasy. 
5.Training for treats is fine for tricks, but not for "real training." I really find this one mystifying, but actually see it most often expressed by trainers. Is it that dogs instinctively know the difference between tricks and "real training" and take one less seriously than the other? Or maybe that behaviors trained without food are more reliable? What makes them more reliable? A lack of food? An emphasis on punishment or the threat of punishment? Maybe it's that inherently rewarding praise? Why would one reinforcer always lead to less reliable performance than another, regardless of the situation and individual dog? 
The fact is (you'll want to stop reading now if you don't like facts) food is just another tool. It's the most commonly used reinforcer for trainers that emphasize positive reinforcement for a very simple reason: it's frequently the greatest common denominator for reinforcers. Eight new dogs. One hour. One room. Eight handlers, at least six of them have no experience. Yup, food. Try some tug later, but there's a good chance a couple of dogs just won't play in the presence of a bunch of new dogs.

But if you're using food wisely it'll be out of the picture pretty quickly, and only used as a random reward once a new behavior is trained. You'll also be introducing alternative rewards like play and yes, praise, too.

The idea that training with treats leads to people walking around with treats in their pockets for as long as they have their dogs is based on a poor understanding of how good dog training works


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Thanks a bunch, I appreciate this, since I have believed most of these myths!!


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## mimismom (Feb 15, 2009)

Thank you for the information. I think this reemphasizes what Sandi is doing with Smarty. I will now try different methods. On Friday I had a big scare with Mimi because she took off into our alley when she saw another dog. She will not obey me. She only listens to DH in cases like this. I even try treats and she won't. I am just going to try other methods and continue working on it.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

mimismom said:


> Thank you for the information. I think this reemphasizes what Sandi is doing with Smarty. I will now try different methods. On Friday I had a big scare with Mimi because she took off into our alley when she saw another dog. She will not obey me. She only listens to DH in cases like this. I even try treats and she won't. I am just going to try other methods and continue working on it.


Hi Elizabeth. Treats better called rewards , are only used to teach something like recall. What makes a recall reliable is constant practice and occasional reinforcement. Starting with simple recalls and then moving gradually to more challenging recalls with distractions. It's not that these" treats" don't work ,it's that the excersise hasn't been strenghtened. I think that very few dogs are 100 percent reliable with recalls, but what we want to train for is as close to that as we can. With any training both of you have to work on this together.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

> The idea that training with treats leads to people walking around with treats in their pockets for as long as they have their dogs is based on a poor understanding of how good dog training works


I have a dog that works just great for praise (not just a pat on the head!) but he also loves treats. I consider it a blessing for the other dog that could care less about praise and I get an enthusiastic dog when I do have treats. I also made sure I trained in valuable praise as a young puppy.

However this last part happens all the time. I am guilty of carrying treats in my pockets with her as well and more than willing to use a bribe with her-anyone been to a playdate with me and Belle? :juggle:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Hi Elizabeth. Treats better called rewards , are only used to teach something like recall. What makes a recall reliable is constant practice and occasional reinforcement. Starting with simple recalls and then moving gradually to more challenging recalls with distractions. It's not that these" treats" don't work, it's that the excersise hasn't been strenghtened. I think that very few dogs are 100 percent reliable with recalls, but what we want to train for is as close to that as we can. With any training both of you have to work on this together.


We had a great chance to proof our recall on Saturday. It was a gorgeous sunny day, and we went out on our rail trail. Kodi was off-lead, and running ahead of me. When he would get to the point where I didn't want him any further ahead, I would do what I usually do, call "Kodi, wait!" and he would wait until I caught up again. He's still a puppy, (10 months) so I USUALLY still have treats with me, but forgot them on Saturday.

At one point, some people came in the other direction with a Golden, and Kodi, who had started out almost as far as I let him get in front of me, booked it toward the dog. I know most Goldens are friendly, but you just never know for sure, and it was a much bigger dog. We've spent a LOT of time socializing Kodi to other dogs, so he thinks all dogs are potential playmates. That can be good, but it also can be bad if the OTHER dog isn't well socialized.

I called one "Kodi! Come!" and he immediately turned away from the other dog and came running back to me. I, of course, told him how wonderful he was and put him back on-leash. Fortunately, when the other people got closer, they told me that their dog WAS friendly. So I was able to let Kodi loose again and reward him with some play time with the other dog. Again, when it was time to move on, I just said "Let's go!" and he broke off and came with me right away.

It's so nice to see the hard work we've done training pay off in real-life situations. I love feeling safe letting him run off leash in the woods (or on the tracks) and still know he'll respond to safety-critical commands. But I don't think I could have GOTTEN this reliable re-call without the use of food reinforcers. And I'll continue to make sure that a LOT of times, I'll STILL reinforce with a cookie, as "money in the bank" for those times when I can't.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ama0722 said:


> I have a dog that works just great for praise (not just a pat on the head!) but he also loves treats. I consider it a blessing for the other dog that could care less about praise and I get an enthusiastic dog when I do have treats. I also made sure I trained in valuable praise as a young puppy.
> 
> However this last part happens all the time. I am guilty of carrying treats in my pockets with her as well and more than willing to use a bribe with her-anyone been to a playdate with me and Belle? :juggle:


I see nothing wrong with having treats available for when you need them, or when you really want to reinforce something that's hard for your dog. In Belle's case, it sounds like just letting you be "in charge" is hard for her little bossy self.<g>


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