# Into and Concerns- Please Help!



## Forbulous (Mar 23, 2009)

Hello, 
My name is Jenifer and my little girl is Molly. Molly is a purebred Havanese and she is 16 months old.
I have some concerns, and frustrations and I was looking for some answers, and where else to look but on a Havanese forum where everyone is an expert?
She has the sweetest little temperament and I adore her and her me. I have had her for about 9 months…
First I have to give you a little background on her.. Molly was born to a co-worker of mine in December of 2007. My co-worker and his wife were just starting up a breeding farm when his wife was diagnosed with cancer and unfortunately passed away before the first litter was born. 3 weeks after her death, the puppies were born and since my co-worker and his family were so grief stricken, they didn’t put everything they had into the babies.
My co-worker did the best he could with them with everything that was going on in his world and Molly was still with her parents until the age of 5 months when I took her.
When I got her, he said that hhe thought she was housebroken as she always went out with her parents, but whenever he came home there were ‘droppings’ and he wasn’t sure if it was because he was gone too long.
He was wrong, she was somewhat housebroken. Right away I trained her as if she was a puppy and started from the beginning. I STILL can’t trust her though! 
She won’t bark to go outside, will paw at you if you are in the room, but if I am downstairs or up, she goes upstairs and pees or poops, or both, in either the toy room, the spare room or at the top of the stairs! I am so frustrated….I’ve tried Natures Miracle and I have cleaned the carpets a few times, but to no avail. 
I let her out about every hour…Any suggestions? 
Another issue I am having is that she is eating her own poo! I changed it as I read it MAY be because she is lacking in something, but it hasn’t changed, not only does she eat her poo, but any other poo laying around- outside of course 
Finally, a few weeks ago at the dog park, 3 greyhounds chased her and played soccer with her as the ball and ever since, she is terrified of all animals, where she was aloof but friendly before….
Any suggestions on how to improve her confidence?
I watch Cesar Milan, but he is more about vicious behaviour problems so he hasn’t been much help.
Any suggestions would be eternal grateful!
Jenifer and Molly


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Welcome Jenifer and Molly

Sorry to hear you are struggling but take heart, you're not alone. The best thing for you to do would probably be to go either do a search of key terms or use the "Forum" tab versus "New Posts" and read through some of the threads posted on the same or similar issues.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Jenifer,

Welcome to the forum! Nice to see someone from Ontario! 

Ryan


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

Hi and welcome Jennifer and Molly...maybe some more pictures can help us see what the problem might be ound:


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Welcome Jenifer. I'm sorry you're going through these issues with your adorable little girl. My own experience has shown me that getting the puppy later can make it more difficult with potty training (and other things as well) since they have so many habits ingrained, both bad and good. My Milo came to me at 5 1/2 months old and potty training has brought me to the brink over and over again. Clearly potty training was not a priority in his breeder's home and it translated into an almost two year odyssey for me. My other puppy, from the same breeder, acquired at 9 weeks old, was easy to train and has been reliable since he was a young puppy.

I know you'll get good advice here. Just know it isn't you. This is a problem many of us have.


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Welcome!
We've adopted two older puppies, and have had some similar experiences. 
I think a couple of things will help you. One is to teach your girl to ring a bell to go outside. There are several threads on here about how to do it. It gives her a sure way to let you know she needs to go out. 
The second is rather than taking her out every hour, take her out first thing in the morning and make sure she goes potty outside. If not, confine her until after breakfast and take her out again. Make sure you see her go potty and poop. Take her on a leash if she isn't going, so that she can't play until she has taken care of business. It may take a while at first. My Indie could hold it a long time. Confine her in an ex-pen or crate if you haven't actually seen her go outside. Indie usually needs to go in the morning (7ish), about 3:30pm, and in the evening between dinnertime and bedtime. It has taken about a year to get her reliable in the house (she is almost two years old and we've had her since 11 months), and it's been a combination of making sure she goes outside, and teaching her to ring the bell that has worked for us. Watching her when she is outside will help with the poop-eating too. You will see it to stop it, and can clean up her "messes" as soon as she goes, so she doesn't get the chance to eat it. My Dusty would eat cat poop! Ick! We don't have cats but they would find our yard! The problem eventually went away.

I hope someone can give you suggestions on helping her get over her fear of other dogs. That sounds like a tough one, given her bad experience.


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi Jennifer and Molly,

Welcome to the forum. Murphy is seven months old and about 95% housebroken. He isn't trained to go outside he is trained to use a litter pan inside. He is getting much more reliable but still needs me to remind him so it is crucial to keep him in eyesight.
Maybe a solution would be to use an indoor training method and put it in one of the areas that she goes to when you aren't watching her. I had some big problems with Murphy because I was using a combination of litter pan and puppy pads and he was getting confused. As soon as I made puppy pads unavailable to him he started to use his puppy litter pan more consistently and now he only has accidents when I am not aware of where he is at. Good luck with Molly's training and post some pictures soon!


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Forbulous said:


> Hello,
> My name is Jenifer and my little girl is Molly. Molly is a purebred Havanese and she is 16 months old.
> I have some concerns, and frustrations and I was looking for some answers, and where else to look but on a Havanese forum where everyone is an expert?
> She has the sweetest little temperament and I adore her and her me. I have had her for about 9 months&#8230;
> ...


Just a suggestion on the issue with being afraid of other dogs now. Whatever you do, don't keep her away from other dogs or else it will reinforce her fear. Try to find some smaller dogs that she can feel comfortable around. Don't force her, just let her work on her own timetable.

As to the poop eating, what food were you feeding and what are you feeding now? Even after changing her food, it could have become a habit that you need to break in conjunction with switching foods. There are a couple of threads about poop eaters here, lots of good advice.

Good Luck!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

:welcome:Hi Jennifer, I am from Kitchener, sounds like you might need some professional help. One of our members IPDTA is out of Guelph. She is very good. Her name is Jennifer Reed. I would highly recommend her . Here is her web site. You can get info from there. http://www.touchfreedogtraining.ca/

Hey Ryan what happened to our flag.?


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

I'm still waiting on my puppy, but I have some experience with my one and only previous dog, and I've been immersed in training books lately, so here's my 2 cents - 

On the house training issues, from all I have read here and elsewhere, if she is getting away with pooping in the house - happening when you don't see it and therefore no chance to correct it and immediately show her where to go, it's reinforcing that it's OK to go there, and in that case she has too much freedom right now. I'm sure the recommendation would be to start back at square one with potty training, only letting her have free run when she has already done her business outside and you can keep a close watch on her. Otherwise she has to be confined when you can't watch her, keep working on it, allowing gradual freedom as she becomes more successful. In fact, I wouldn't assume total trustworthiness even if you have a couple consistent months, it seems like some of these guys take longer to get it, particularly if you have to help them un-learn bad habits that developed before you got them.

Can't help you with the poop eating, I'm just basically praying my puppy won't have a taste for it. I did read it's quite natural dog behavior, they think either learned from watching the mother clean the den after the puppies, or possibly dietary, and possibly they just think it's delicious. Lotsa animals eat poo. I used to watch my guinea pigs roll their heads under their bodies and eat it right from their own rear - ugh! I watched a squirrel eat a cat turd on my deck railing about a month ago, too. I'd be curious about whether dogs on certain diets (kibble, canned, home cooked raw, and what brands - i.e. grain based or no) seem to have a higher incidence of poop-eating.

I bet you'll do fine just refocusing on the training and communicating better with your dog, maybe with the help of the trainer dave and molly mentioned. It does sound like much effort is required in the beginning, regardless of what age you get them at, to help them learn what the rules and routines are, but the effort pays off in the end. good luck!


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Dave,

The flag is still in my sig line, isnt it?

Ryan


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Beamer said:


> Dave,
> 
> The flag is still in my sig line, isnt it?
> 
> Ryan


Yes Ryan but I couldn't find one to use earlier.?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Petaluna said:


> I'm still waiting on my puppy, but I have some experience with my one and only previous dog, and I've been immersed in training books lately, so here's my 2 cents -
> 
> On the house training issues, from all I have read here and elsewhere, if she is getting away with pooping in the house - happening when you don't see it and therefore no chance to correct it and immediately show her where to go, it's reinforcing that it's OK to go there, and in that case she has too much freedom right now. I'm sure the recommendation would be to start back at square one with potty training, only letting her have free run when she has already done her business outside and you can keep a close watch on her. Otherwise she has to be confined when you can't watch her, keep working on it, allowing gradual freedom as she becomes more successful. In fact, I wouldn't assume total trustworthiness even if you have a couple consistent months, it seems like some of these guys take longer to get it, particularly if you have to help them un-learn bad habits that developed before you got them.
> 
> ...


Great advice Diane. Housetraining is a spatial thing. When she is loose you have to be watching her ,taking her out and big rewards when she does go. It's the socializing that I would be more concerned about. That's why I recommended you contact Jen Reed.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

:welcome: to the forum, Jenifer. I'm sorry you're having trouble with Molly. You have received some really good advice, and there are many other threads dealing with these issues as well. I think you can definitely fix these issues. A trainer/behaviorist, as Dave suggested, will help give you a lot of emotional support and expedite the results. Good luck!
Gina


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## HavaBaloo (Mar 24, 2009)

DanielBMe said:


> Just a suggestion on the issue with being afraid of other dogs now. Whatever you do, don't keep her away from other dogs or else it will reinforce her fear. Try to find some smaller dogs that she can feel comfortable around. Don't force her, just let her work on her own timetable.


Welcome, and I totally agree with Daniel here. I didn't get Baloo until he was 6 months and he was really scared of the neighbourhood dogs, but now is getting much comfy. This week he actually had a doggy play time twice with a mixed beagle and a mix lab and all went well. He is still a bit scared of the really big bad dog up the road, but I still make a point of taking him for a walk around the block and we pass that house and I just reinforce with a good boy as we walk by.

Good luck, be patient and loving and it will all work out.


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## Forbulous (Mar 23, 2009)

Hey Everyone, 
Thanks for all of your advice!

Davetgabby-I took my last dog to Jennifer Reed and you are right, she was great. I will give her a call. What is IPDTA?

Litter pan....that isn't a bad idea...she is small enough, and her ' eliminations' are smaller than my cat.

Molly is on Orijen, she was on Holistic Blend, as I don't ant any fillers. It is grain free and all natural for the msot part...Made in Canada so I feel better!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

You can buy a product called SEP (Stop Eating Poo) in a powder form and sprinkle it onto their food. I know there are some other things you can try for that but SEP worked for us. Scooter was a poo eater, still eats rabbit poo outside, but at least he isn't eating his own anymore.

Good luck, Molly is beautiful and I hope this forum is helpful! WELCOME!!!


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Welcome, Jenifer. Molly looks like a doll, but we need MORE PICTURES.

Don't feel that you are unique with these issues because Molly wasn't trained well or that has been irreparably damaged. I got my Lola at 12 weeks, and she at 19 months is not 100% reliable on housetraining and still will eat poo on occasion. 

You need to catch her in the act of going in the house SEVERAL times for her to get it. Only way to do that is to tether her to you, or keep her in an ex-pen that is small enough for her to feel it is her den. It helps to have tags on her collar that make noise so you can hear where she is in the house. Also, do searches for threads on bell training. That may be down the road a bit after you have done potty training. 

Also you need to be firm in potty training. Take her out to "go potty", on a leash, no fussing around. She may need to pace around to get her spot, but you need to get her to understand that this is the time and place to go potty. Reward her with a treat and praise and eye contact and an ear rub. And while she is on the leash, you can pick up the poop so she won't eat it. See how easy!?? Don't let her think that any time she goes out side is play time. This can be tedious in the beginning, if you have an iPhone load it up with games! Say "go Potty" or whatever your phrase is a few times. And then just stand/sit and wait for her to get to it. This works best when you know she has to go - like in the morning. This is reinforcing training for this behavior and really critical if Molly hasn't gotten the message before. Same phrase, same spot, no running around, stern faced mommy until she goes, big smile party and treats after she goes.

Do searches here for poop eating. Solutions have been varied in content and success. You are already feeding high quality food. Adding Pineapple in the food, Deter, SEP, etc. That may make her poop unappealing, but others are still a buffett. A trainer can work with you on that if it continues. You need to save poops and use them in training. Yuk. 

If you want to have her use a pee pad in the house, try UGODOG or WIZDOG websites. Lola faithfully uses her Wizdog to pee. She won't pee and poop in the same place, so we go outside for poops, which is fine with me. 

Good luck with your girl. You will find many on here that have 2 year old that are only 99% reliable. It's the life of a havvie-mom or dad!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

If you're going to bell train I'd start immediately. Hang the bell on the door you're going to use every time you go outside to potty. Ring the bell as you go out and say "Let's go potty!" She'll associate the bell ringing with going out to potty. Murphy has only been with us a few weeks and he's ringing already, not consistently but at least he's trying. Potty training STINKS!!! I had forgotten what a pain it is but we're trying our best to stay on top of it.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Forbulous said:


> Hey Everyone,
> Thanks for all of your advice!
> 
> Davetgabby-I took my last dog to Jennifer Reed and you are right, she was great. I will give her a call. What is IPDTA?
> ...


What a coincidence, yeah Jen Reed is very knowledgeable. IPDTA stands for International Positive Dog Training Association. Here is our web site.

http://www.ipdta.org/


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Others here tell me I have a way of bumping up old threads and wonder why I do it, so bear with me.  O.k., I just noticed a post from you in a current thread (grooming) and realized that I missed your intro so came to look for it! 

Sorry about that, fellow Canuck. Welcome to the Havanese Forum!!! LOL


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## oohbetty (Mar 2, 2009)

I agree with you about not finding Cesar Milan useful to training Havanese. Every advice of his that I followed became VERY counterproductive with my Hav.


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## SassyCassy (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi there.

Here is my experience with my 5 1/2 month old puppy who has become house broken pretty quickly, but it did take a couple of months of consistent training. And even now, I do not let her roam around the house by herself. There are simply some places that she is not allowed to be without me there.

1) Purchase a wire pen and set it up somewhere in the house where you spend most of your time (I set mine up in the kitchen nook)
2) Whenever you are NOT watching Molly like a hawk, place her in the pen, put some toys/bones in the to play with. She may whine and bark, ignore it. Be strong and you'll teach her it's ok to be on her own for just a while
3) Feed her on a regular schedule and take her out immediately after eating, let her run around. If she does not go pee & poop (p/p). Bring her back in and watch her. If you cannot watch her, she goes back in the pen. Take her out half an hour later, same drill. THIS IS IMPORTANT: IF YOU CANNOT WATCH HER, PLACE HER IN THE PEN. It's ok, and will pay off when she's house broken.
4) Place a bell (you can buy on line) by the door you commonly use, and take her paw to ring it every time you leave the house to go p/p. She should start getting it or at least barking at the door.
5) Be vigilant, watch her and when you catch her going p/p inside, scold her. She must know she is doing something wrong and it's not allowed. Immediately take her out and praise her when she goes outside. Give her a ridiculous amount of praise!
6) Sometimes it's impossible to watch them a 100% of the time, I know....If you can't, and you are too far from the pen (e.g. upstairs), place her on the bed or somewhere where you know she won't go. 
7) This takes repetition. Don't be discouraged if she has accidents at first, it will take a while, but what's important is consistency and she'll learn.

Keep us posted on the progress.

Take Care and Good Luck!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Very good advice, Agata!! I know that if we should ever get another puppy, I'll be sure to have an ex-pen. With Ricky, we had the kitchen and eating area gated and I was in there with him a LOT, but it was still too big a space and the rest of the family wasn't as vigilant as I was, so it took a long time to finally get him trustworthy.


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## Forbulous (Mar 23, 2009)

Thanks everyone!
Molly was on Holistic Blend back when she was eating the Poop. I was picking it up immediately, however, what was happening was she was going in the house and then eating most of it so I wouldn't find it. OR she was eating another animals that she found when she was walking. I am very diligent about picking up poop, as it angers me when I see people not pick it up....and my 4 year old plays in the backyard. I switched her to Orijen, and she completely stopped eating any poop at all...MUCH better breath! 

I have to say that I am STILL struggling with her and going outside. It had been 4 weeks since she went inside and I thought it was finally over, until I found a pee today! $#*&

I really like the suggestion of taking her to the same spot, every day, same time, same face...ignoring her until she goes...I'll start that tomorrow!

This really IS so frustrating...I am consistent as I can be with her, and she doesnt seem to get the whole peeing outside thing...but I am goign to go back to square one.

She is so cute and I feel bad that in my head I want to scream at her, but I don't...she is so pathetic and hopeless and loyal, that I can't imagine being mean to her...yet I get so frustrated.


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## Forbulous (Mar 23, 2009)

UPDATE

So I switched Molly's food, and she is now on Orijen and hasn't eaten poop (that I know of) in months.

However, she is STILL going in the house once in awhile. So i still can't completely trust her.

I take her out in the morning, again when I get home and then once or twice after that. 
She used to go outside on her chain, pee in the yard and come in. Now she won't do that. Even if I go outside with her, I have to walk her down the street to go. 

She always pees and poops in the same spot, but infortch, it is on someone elses lawn, and even though they have never said anything, it isn't fair to them.

The other day, I picked up her poop with a leaf, and then put the leaf in my yard, so she can smell it out there, but that didn't work...HELP

The other day I caught her peeing in the house, and when I yelled No! and went to take her outside, she went running into her crate.
Now, she won't play, if I start to play with her, she runs away, or sits, thinking she is in trouble. She spends most of her time in her crate. When I call her out, she will jsut nuzzle up to me, or go back in.

I am SO frustrated.


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## HavaBaloo (Mar 24, 2009)

How old is Molly now? Havanese, from my experience, take awhile for them to be completely consistent.

One thing I know, from my own experience, is that if Baloo isn't happy about something, or isn't getting what he needs he will pee in the house. This summer there was 2 weeks when dh and I both worked the same hours, and no one was home during the day with him and at night, when we were home he peed twice in the house, but nothing now that we are back to our regular routine. Not sure if you need to change your routine or not, or if she is trying to tell you that she isn't happy, needs more exercise etc, I am no expert but I know how frustrating it is.

As for pooping on the neighbors lawn, most dogs don't want to go on their own lawn. I went to my neighbour and told her if she ever sees me on her lawn it is because I am checking to make sure Baloo never left any presents. She was actually pretty pleased I told her and said as long as I clean up no problem. There are so many dogs in our neighbourhood I know those "BIG" presents aren't Baloo's, but to be a good neighbour I pick them up too.

I don't think this will help, but know you are not alone. Try to be consistent and maybe start taking her out a few more times. Keep us up to date on how she is doing.


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## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

I hate to tell you but my girl is 10 and still pees inside on occassion. It's a toy dog thing and I accept it-everything I read before getting her prepared me for this. My 8 year old boy never has accidents. 

Small dogs and greyhounds should not mix at a dog park. At one of our local parks a greyhound killed a small dog, greyhounds are sight hounds, they were bred to hunt and kill small game-especially rabbits (which a small havanese can really look like when running) Thankfully, the dog park near me has 2 sections, one for large dogs and one for small dogs.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Hi Jennifer!

Welcome to the Hav Forum! I missed this thread. Molly is a sweetie! 

Hang in the Jennifer, Havs take lots of patience. You can't get mad at that beautiful face. 

Dexter doesn't eat HIS poop, but he enjoys....I am thinking either cat poop or rabbit poop is yummy. Dexter goes to the same spots in the yard and finds "dessert" every time!

Molly will "get it" one day, just be patient. I am not convinced on those poop and urine cleaners. Dexter is house broken, but I am pretty sure that there must be smells in the house somewhere. But, I still use the stuff.....

Keep us posted on how Molly is doing, ok? Oh! Don't forget to take some more pictures of your precious Molly, we still need convincing Molly is really here. :bump2:


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Why not put a pee pad in the house? That way if she has to be indoors for whatever reason, she'll go on the pad rather than on your floor.

What you could do is when she does pee outside, dab the pee pad on it. The put the pee pad somewhere in the home. Then bring her to the pee pad and let her sniff it. She'll probably pee on it and hopefully only pee there when going in the house.

I have a pee pad for Brando in my bathroom. He only uses it for emergencies. Usually in the winter months.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

jillnors2 said:


> I hate to tell you but my girl is 10 and still pees inside on occassion. It's a toy dog thing and I accept it-everything I read before getting her prepared me for this. My 8 year old boy never has accidents.
> 
> Small dogs and greyhounds should not mix at a dog park. At one of our local parks a greyhound killed a small dog, greyhounds are sight hounds, they were bred to hunt and kill small game-especially rabbits (which a small havanese can really look like when running) Thankfully, the dog park near me has 2 sections, one for large dogs and one for small dogs.


Yep, I agree. I know some people are able to get great consistency, but I think the smaller dogs tend to be a little more difficult. Marble is almost three, and although he goes to the bathroom outside regularly, he will have an accident every month or so. In addition, he leaks every time we come home or if he gets scared or excited.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

> Small dogs and greyhounds should not mix at a dog park. At one of our local parks a greyhound killed a small dog, greyhounds are sight hounds, they were bred to hunt and kill small game-especially rabbits (which a small havanese can really look like when running) Thankfully, the dog park near me has 2 sections, one for large dogs and one for small dogs.


I don't quite agree with this.... My guys play with Rottweilers, German Sheppards, Huskies, etc at the dog park and never had a problem. It all comes down to how well the owners train the dogs. Obviously if you have a bad owner who doesn't properly train/socialize his dog, it will have problems. I know all the people at my dog park. If someone new comes along we make sure their dog is okay on the leash before allowing it to be unleashed.

Last summer we had a new girl who came with her Akita. From prior experience with the Akita I know they can be very aggressive. Her dog was on the leash. I walked my guys close to her dog to see if it would be aggressive and sure enough it was extremely aggressive. We told her that her dog was not welcome in the park. Never saw her again.

It's important to get to know the people at the park that way you can all participate in keeping it a safe and happy place for both people and dogs.


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## Forbulous (Mar 23, 2009)

Since that episode at the park in April, Molly has stopped being so submissive with dogs. I never stopped taking her to the park, and for the first few weeks, she would stay close to me, but now she runs up to whichever dog is there and starts barking, and then playing. Even HUGE Bull Mastiffs and even another Greyhound.
I have never seen those Greyhounds since. But I want her to be confident enough to deal with all the dogs on the playground.
I wonder though, if this Akita would hav been less aggressive off leash? I have read that when they are on leash, they feel more defensive and are more aggressive. Of course, you wouldn’t want to learn the hard way!
Molly’s submissiveness is mostly just with me. I call her my white shadow as she follows me everywhere, and will only come to me consistently. She comes to my husband and family only sometimes. I have to work with her, get them to give her treats when she comes.
I pulled the clicker back out and she remembers it. Now she gets excited when I pick it up as she knows it means she will be doing tricks and getting treated.
I need to find away to stop the submissive behaviour as it drives me crazy and I can’t help but take it personally as I am always gentle with her and there is no reason at all for her to be scared.


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## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

> Rottweilers, German Sheppards, Huskies


These dogs do not have the prey drive of a sighthound.


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## HavaBaloo (Mar 24, 2009)

jillnors2 said:


> I hate to tell you but my girl is 10 and still pees inside on occassion. It's a toy dog thing and I accept it-everything I read before getting her prepared me for this. My 8 year old boy never has accidents.
> 
> Small dogs and greyhounds should not mix at a dog park. At one of our local parks a greyhound killed a small dog, greyhounds are sight hounds, they were bred to hunt and kill small game-especially rabbits (which a small havanese can really look like when running) Thankfully, the dog park near me has 2 sections, one for large dogs and one for small dogs.


I don't completely agree here either, my boss has a greyhound and he is such a gentle soul and wouldn't hurt a flee. Baloo will RLH around him, and he just stands there looking as if saying "whatever!" I believe how a dog acts or re-acts is based on how he was and is trained by his "pack leader", meaning us. Although I do agree that dog parks should have 2 areas, but if the dogs are trained and well behaved they should integrate well together.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

DanielBMe said:


> I don't quite agree with this.... My guys play with Rottweilers, German Sheppards, Huskies, etc at the dog park and never had a problem. It all comes down to how well the owners train the dogs. Obviously if you have a bad owner who doesn't properly train/socialize his dog, it will have problems. I know all the people at my dog park. If someone new comes along we make sure their dog is okay on the leash before allowing it to be unleashed.
> 
> Last summer we had a new girl who came with her Akita. From prior experience with the Akita I know they can be very aggressive. Her dog was on the leash. I walked my guys close to her dog to see if it would be aggressive and sure enough it was extremely aggressive. We told her that her dog was not welcome in the park. Never saw her again.
> 
> It's important to get to know the people at the park that way you can all participate in keeping it a safe and happy place for both people and dogs.


The problem with grey hounds (and the other large sight hounds like Borzoi and Afghans) is not that they are aggressive... they're NOT. It's that they have been bred for, literally, thousands of years to chase anything that moves. It's instinctive behavior. I used to live with two Borzois, and they were the sweetest dogs in the world. They lived peacefully with our house cats with no problem at all. Everyone was in an enclosed space, close together and moving slowly.

Both dogs, at different times, killed barn cats, and in both cases, the scenario was exactly the same. They were outdoors, saw the cat moving in the distance and that hunting instinct took over. Like lightening, they were on the cat, picked it up and snapped its back. Both immediately dropped the cat and looked horror-stricken. I don't think either one of them meant to hurt the cat, but a large dog can't grab a small animal at speed without the small animal getting hurt. Add to that that sight hounds aren't the sharpest tools in the shed...<g> It's like saying you can "teach" a cat and a hamster to get along... It works until the hamster moves unexpectedly, and the cat gets a little riled up. Then instinct takes over, and it's bye, bye hamster. It's not the fault of the cat or of the sight hound. It's the way their brains work.

Kodi walks with a German Shepherd several times a week, and I trust the Shepherd with him completely. (though even there, I'd never leave them unsupervised, just because of the size difference) I'd NEVER trust him in the open with a loose sight hound. No human is a match for a sight hound moving at speed.


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## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

> I don't completely agree here either, my boss has a greyhound and he is such a gentle soul and wouldn't hurt a flee. Baloo will RLH around him


My best friend has 2 greyhounds and is VERY active in greyhound activities and greyhound rescue, she is the one who told me to NEVER let my small dog run with greyhounds-or any large sight hound. I personally would not risk it. But to each his own.



> The problem with grey hounds (and the other large sight hounds like Borzoi and Afghans) is not that they are aggressive... they're NOT. It's that they have been bred for, literally, thousands of years to chase anything that moves. It's instinctive behavior. I used to live with two Borzois, and they were the sweetest dogs in the world. They lived peacefully with our house cats with no problem at all. Everyone was in an enclosed space, close together and moving slowly.


Thank you, this is what I was trying to say but you are much more articulate than I!


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Another suggestion, just in case it has not been mentioned....is to stop water drinking after 6 or 7 pm and make sure the last potty run is after 10pm.

Stay on a schedule for potty breaks.....first thing in morning, after breakfast, after long naps, all hard plays, after evening meal (5-6pm), stop fluids in early evening, out again around 8pm, then after 10pm. 

You could start going outside for potty breaks with your pup every 2 hours and slowly length out the time, but make sure you are tracking how many pees/poos occur each day...so, you know what to expect.


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## Forbulous (Mar 23, 2009)

Thanks Havanesesoon.

I do monitor her, and she has been doing really great, even started sort of peeing on command, but we still have a ways to go.
I was all happy yesterday because it had been 2 weeks since an accident in the house...but when I got home from the gym, my husband said she had pooed AGAIN.

I want to trust her, I don't want to resent her, but I am getting frustrated I want to scream!


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## Forbulous (Mar 23, 2009)

AND she is still being totally submissive. Even when I try to play with her she jsut rolls over and shows her belly, where she used to paly along!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Forbulous said:


> Thanks Havanesesoon.
> 
> I do monitor her, and she has been doing really great, even started sort of peeing on command, but we still have a ways to go.
> I was all happy yesterday because it had been 2 weeks since an accident in the house...but when I got home from the gym, my husband said she had pooed AGAIN.
> ...


Where was she that she had the opportunity to poop in the house? If someone wasn't watching her, she needed to be in her crate. (or an ex-pen if she will use a litter box reliable in an area of that size)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

My guess is that she feels your frustration and unhappiness with her, even if you are trying not to show it. Have you had a good trainer who uses positive methods come to your house, watch what is going on and give you advice?


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