# Breeder policy questions re crate exposure etc



## HavaHopeful (10 mo ago)

I’ve been talking with a breeder who has been well-regarded on this forum from
past searches. I really like the breeder and just wanted to ask those more knowledgeable than me if any of these are red flags…

- The breeder does not introduce her puppies to the crate at all. How much more challenging will this make it for us to crate train if we get the puppy at 10 weeks? Puppies all sleep together in xpen.

- The breeder does not have the puppies go outside _at all_ to ensure their safety. Puppies use potty pads exclusively. I appreciate the conservatism, but I wonder if the lack of exposure to outside textures and noises before 10 weeks could be an issue? Also is it hard to potty train if a pup is only accustomed to potty pads (which we would want to discontinue)?

- The breeder does not seem to socialize her pups to other animals (besides littermates) or kids, etc. I appreciate this is often hard to do esp during covid but just wondering your thoughts. 

We really want a pup who is not anxious or timid so have been looking for a breeder who includes early socialization, puppy culture or similar practices into the early development phase. Or am I overthinking all of this, and all of the above sound okay?


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## Silk Dog (9 mo ago)

My former dog was not crate trained by his breeder. We got him in January, so it was difficult to take him outside, although we did when we could. I "crated" him in the kitchen using baby gates to block the doors and put pads on the floor when we could not watch him. He went on the pads and when the weather improved he graduated to outdoor potty only. I don't remember that it was very difficult to housebreak. It was also very hard to socialize the dog in the dead of winter. We took him to a bookstore that allowed dogs when we could, and to the local Pet Smart, but he did not get a lot of socialization until he attended puppy classes. This may have made him shy of other dogs, although he was never shy of people and always wanted to be the center of attention when I had guests!


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## HavaHopeful (10 mo ago)

Silk Dog said:


> My former dog was not crate trained by his breeder. We got him in January, so it was difficult to take him outside, although we did when we could. I "crated" him in the kitchen using baby gates to block the doors and put pads on the floor when we could not watch him. He went on the pads and when the weather improved he graduated to outdoor potty only. I don't remember that it was very difficult to housebreak. It was also very hard to socialize the dog in the dead of winter. We took him to a bookstore that allowed dogs when we could, and to the local Pet Smart, but he did not get a lot of socialization until he attended puppy classes. This may have made him shy of other dogs, although he was never shy of people and always wanted to be the center of attention when I had guests!


Thanks for the feedback! I am talking about true crate-training though where a puppy is accustomed or has at least had exposure to being inside a crate. Your setup sounds more like a puppy playpen. 

Glad to hear the housebreaking wasn't too tough though - I've heard Havanese can be a bit tougher to housetrain.


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## Silk Dog (9 mo ago)

HavaHopeful said:


> Thanks for the feedback! I am talking about true crate-training though where a puppy is accustomed or has at least had exposure to being inside a crate. Your setup sounds more like a puppy playpen.
> 
> Glad to hear the housebreaking wasn't too tough though - I've heard Havanese can be a bit tougher to housetrain.


I referred to the lack of crate training by the breeder of my dog. It did not seem to matter that much in the end. I did not crate train him either, but restricted where he could go when we could not watch him. And used puppy pads. Which did not seem to hinder his housebreaking. As with all puppies, there will be mistakes. But small ones. I have also heard that Havanese are hard to housebreak but did not find that to be the experience. I, however, will crate train my next puppy -- mainly because I'm curious to seek if it makes any difference. (I don't think so.)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

HavaHopeful said:


> I’ve been talking with a breeder who has been well-regarded on this forum from
> past searches. I really like the breeder and just wanted to ask those more knowledgeable than me if any of these are red flags…
> 
> - The breeder does not introduce her puppies to the crate at all. How much more challenging will this make it for us to crate train if we get the puppy at 10 weeks? Puppies all sleep together in xpen.
> ...


I would PREFER a breeder who starts crate training before sending the puppies home. I think it is easier on the new owners and it is DEFINITELY seaier on the puppie. Would this be a deal breaker for me? No.

A litter is born in the beginning of December in my climate, it is unlikely that they will go outside at all. But I strongly believe that puppies should be gotten outdoors on all surfaces if the weather is mild and it is feasible. I don't know what safety issues she is concerned about. My puppies were safely in an ex-pen, ALWAYS supervised by at LEAST one human, often several. They were in no more danger than in their indoor weaning pen. I'd have some qualms about this. 

Pee pads are not an ideal surface for potty training, IMO. Not the end of the world. INDOOR potty training does not in ANY way interfere with outdoor potty training. I WOULD be concerned if she is using cloth pee pads, because it is my experience that puppies have a REALLY hard time differentiating between these and other pieces of cloth or scatter rugs on the floor. (and you can hardly blame them!) Even people who get "puppy milll puppies" can USUALLY potty train them, but it makes it a LOT harder than if they are properly started by their breeder. But I will say that there are a lot of reasonably good breeders in MOST other ways that fall down in the potty training department.

A breeder who does not actively and with purpose, socialize her litter of puppies would be an ABSOLUTE deal-breaker for me. I don't care HOW nice the puppies were. Yes, you could get lucky and get one where it didn't matter that much for, and yes, you can still get a lot done later. Again, lot of people do well with puppy mill and rescue puppies. But I would guess this is a puppy that you would be spending a significant amount of money for. You and the puppies ALL deserve better. AS an example of what a GOOD breeder does in terms of socialization, just ONE of the things that happened this week for her 8 week old puppies, was a visit from me and another breeder for structural evaluation, nail clipping, microchipping and playing with Ducky. (who I brought along) Yesterday it was raining, but I know they got to play outdoors the day before. Nextweek, I don't know ALL she has planned, but I know they have a trip for BAER testing one day, a trip to Cabela's to experience "dead animals" (the taxidemied bears and things! LOL!) from a safe stroller) and a trip to a family farm to meet ducks, chickens rabbits and a retired horse. THAT is good socialization. It is hard WORK. But it is GOOD for the puppies. Some people SAY it is for the "safety" of the puppies that they keep them in the living room. I think it is at least part laziness.

I know the Kings don't have to travel for farm animals, because those puppies are raised on a farm, but I have photos of Kodi and Pixel with horses and chicken outside the puppy porch with the puppies looking on. I KNOW the King puppies play outdoors in good weather, and Tom stays with them to chase Osprey and eagles away. Good breeders get their puppies used to all SORTS of things!


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## Silk Dog (9 mo ago)

In a perfect world.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

HavaHopeful said:


> Thanks for the feedback! I am talking about true crate-training though where a puppy is accustomed or has at least had exposure to being inside a crate. Your setup sounds more like a puppy playpen.
> 
> Glad to hear the housebreaking wasn't too tough though - I've heard Havanese can be a bit tougher to housetrain.


I don't think they are any tougher than any other small dog breed, and easier than many!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Silk Dog said:


> I referred to the lack of crate training by the breeder of my dog. It did not seem to matter that much in the end. I did not crate train him either, but restricted where he could go when we could not watch him. And used puppy pads. Which did not seem to hinder his housebreaking. As with all puppies, there will be mistakes. But small ones. I have also heard that Havanese are hard to housebreak but did not find that to be the experience. I, however, will crate train my next puppy -- mainly because I'm curious to seek if it makes any difference. (I don't think so.)


Crate training has another directly to do with potty training.  They have different purposes. I want my dogs to be comfortable in a crate for several reasons. A crate is the safest place for them to be in a car, and our dogs go a LOT of places with us. They also sleep in crates at night. Some people have their puppy sleep in a pen, which is fine if you only have one, I guess. If you have multiples, that become unwieldy. Finally, and probably MOST important. Sooner or later, in almost every dog's life, they re going to find themselves hospitalized. Even if it's for something as simple as a spay or neuter. How TERRIFYING, if they have never been confined to a crate, to suddenly be stuck in a small crate at the hospital?!?! Or even a groomers? I t=believe that an owner is doing their dog a disservice if they do NOT crate train, even if they hardly EVER use a crate in the house. 

Panda sleeps in bed with us. (Long story why SHE has "special privileges"!  ) So in the house, she is hardly ever in a crate. But she will happily SETTLE in a crate if she is placed in one. And she will sleep in one when we are on vacation in our travel trailer (where the bed is smaller! LOL!) without complaint. She also crates comfortably at a show or trial, and will rest or sleep quietly between classes. I owed it to her to teach her that, regardless of where she spends her time at home.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Silk Dog said:


> In a perfect world.


I think we can expect our breeders to produce emotionally strong, heathy puppies. I believe we owe that to the breed and to the next puppies that are bred by those breeders. If breeders start to lose sales because of their practices, maybe they will re-think. If NOT, at least you, as a buyer, have a better chance of getting an emotionally resilient companion.


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## HavaHopeful (10 mo ago)

krandall said:


> I would PREFER a breeder who starts crate training before sending the puppies home. I think it is easier on the new owners and it is DEFINITELY seaier on the puppie. Would this be a deal breaker for me? No.
> 
> A litter is born in the beginning of December in my climate, it is unlikely that they will go outside at all. But I strongly believe that puppies should be gotten outdoors on all surfaces if the weather is mild and it is feasible. I don't know what safety issues she is concerned about. My puppies were safely in an ex-pen, ALWAYS supervised by at LEAST one human, often several. They were in no more danger than in their indoor weaning pen. I'd have some qualms about this.
> 
> ...


You are echoing all of my concerns. I was so surprised when she said she doesn’t socialized. I keep running into brick walls and am so disheartened. I’ve probably spoken to 50 breeders at this point. 

I also agree crate training is important for multiple reasons.


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## Johanna (11 mo ago)

I think all of your concerns are legitimate. Especially the lack of socialization and not allowing the puppies outside at all. That just seems odd to me. I just got my new pup two weeks ago and he was raised with puppy culture and other puppy enrichment and desensitization techniques and he has been just wonderful. In the short time I've had him, he's been exposed to a lot of new things and loud and scary noises and nothing seems to bother him... bad thunderstorms, next-door neighbor having tree work with wood chippers and chainsaws going all day, long car ride to the beach, introduction to the the beach and waves. He hasn't batted an eye. The only thing that makes him a little nervous is if he hears a large dog bark in the distance and then he will stop what he's doing and get in between my feet. I think that's him being smart. He's fine with the other dogs in my household (large and small). He loves all people of all sizes and can't wait to make new friends. I think he really benefitted from the extra socializing he got in the first weeks of his life. Once he's fully vaccinated, I will do some training classes and maybe a few puppy daycare sessions with him to get him used to being around other dogs that he doesn't know a little more. Just my two cents.


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## HavaHopeful (10 mo ago)

Johanna said:


> I think all of your concerns are legitimate. Especially the lack of socialization and not allowing the puppies outside at all. That just seems odd to me. I just got my new pup two weeks ago and he was raised with puppy culture and other puppy enrichment and desensitization techniques and he has been just wonderful. In the short time I've had him, he's been exposed to a lot of new things and loud and scary noises and nothing seems to bother him... bad thunderstorms, next-door neighbor having tree work with wood chippers and chainsaws going all day, long car ride to the beach, introduction to the the beach and waves. He hasn't batted an eye. The only thing that makes him a little nervous is if he hears a large dog bark in the distance and then he will stop what he's doing and get in between my feet. I think that's him being smart. He's fine with the other dogs in my household (large and small). He loves all people of all sizes and can't wait to make new friends. I think he really benefitted from the extra socializing he got in the first weeks of his life. Once he's fully vaccinated, I will go some training classes and maybe a few puppy daycare sessions with him to get him used to being around other dogs that he doesn't know a little more. Just my two cents.


Congrats on your new addition!! May I ask who your breeder was?


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## Johanna (11 mo ago)

HavaHopeful said:


> Congrats on your new addition!! May I ask who your breeder was?


He came from Endearing Havanese in north Georgia. This was actually her first litter but she's been committed in learning and has had great resources and mentors (other reputable breeders). I found her on Gooddog.com which is a site that rates breeders and lists the health testing, etc that they do. I still did my due diligence in checking out the health testing and lines and finding out how she raised the puppies, etc.


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## HavaHopeful (10 mo ago)

Johanna said:


> He came from Endearing Havanese in north Georgia. This was actually her first litter but she's been committed in learning and has had great resources and mentors (other reputable breeders). I found her on Gooddog.com which is a site that rates breeders and lists the health testing, etc that they do. I still did my due diligence in checking out the health testing and lines and finding out how she raised the puppies, etc.


Thank you! Good Dog is a great starting point, I agree!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Johanna said:


> I think all of your concerns are legitimate. Especially the lack of socialization and not allowing the puppies outside at all. That just seems odd to me. I just got my new pup two weeks ago and he was raised with puppy culture and other puppy enrichment and desensitization techniques and he has been just wonderful. In the short time I've had him, he's been exposed to a lot of new things and loud and scary noises and nothing seems to bother him... bad thunderstorms, next-door neighbor having tree work with wood chippers and chainsaws going all day, long car ride to the beach, introduction to the the beach and waves. He hasn't batted an eye. The only thing that makes him a little nervous is if he hears a large dog bark in the distance and then he will stop what he's doing and get in between my feet. I think that's him being smart. He's fine with the other dogs in my household (large and small). He loves all people of all sizes and can't wait to make new friends. I think he really benefitted from the extra socializing he got in the first weeks of his life. Once he's fully vaccinated, I will go some training classes and maybe a few puppy daycare sessions with him to get him used to being around other dogs that he doesn't know a little more. Just my two cents.


Marcia posted the video of him on the beach (bouncing through the little waves!) today on FB! Absolutely adorable!!! 💖


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## Johanna (11 mo ago)

krandall said:


> Marcia posted the video of him on the beach (bouncing through the little waves!) today on FB! Absolutely adorable!!! 💖


Glad she's sharing the videos I sent. I'd post them here but I think I have to create a YouTube account to be able to share videos. He's just a little party in a fuzzy body! So smart and easy and fun from day one!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Johanna said:


> Glad she's sharing the videos I sent. I'd post them here but I think I have to create a YouTube account to be able to share videos. He's just a little party in a fuzzy body! So smart and easy and fun from day one!


Yes, I think you need to post videos to YouTube or Vimeo or some other outside host first, then post the link here. I don't think there is anyway to post a video directly to the forum.


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## LWalks (Feb 7, 2021)

Totally agree with everything that’s been said, and it sounds like your gut was right on, too! I know it can feel like it takes forever to find the right person, but it will be worth the wait! Even with tons of early socialization from her breeder, our girl had some sound sensitivity when we first brought her home, I think in large part due to the fact that we’re in a city, so no amount of suburban socialization quite measured up to our busy neighborhood. But she was resilient and caught on quickly that new things were nothing to be afraid of, and I attribute that to the early socialization (and then continuing a ton of socialization when we got her home, including some great tips from the forum on increasing tolerance to loud noises.) The other day, we were at a beach with helicopters right over head, and she was totally unfazed!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> Yes, I think you need to post videos to YouTube or Vimeo or some other outside host first, then post the link here. I don't think there is anyway to post a video directly to the forum.


I think I've posted a link from dropbox (or google drive) and then people could view through that link... or maybe no one was able to view it and never told me


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> I think I've posted a link from dropbox (or google drive) and then people could view through that link... or maybe no one was able to view it and never told me


Did you post it in a new post or edit your old post? If you edited your old post, it would not come up again in people’s feeds, so they wouldn’t know to look. I know I haven’t seen it!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I think covid has heightened everyone’s awareness of socializing puppies so I find it concerning that a breeder would not prioritize it. However there are so many ways to socialize puppies, it’s really about exposure and early stimulation of all senses, so if someone is being creative and finding less traditional ways to meet the same needs that’s different.

Depending on how the ex pen is used, it can be so similar to crate training in methodology, it wouldn’t concern me. But knowing what I know now about potty training, I would rather choose a breeder who really understands indoor potty training and doesn’t just lay out a pee pad. That’s not indoor training or litter box training. Regardless of long term potty training preferences for families/pet owners, it seems like plenty of breeders understand the benefits of indoor training and it provides a better foundation for any kind of potty training for a puppy to be learning the correct place to pee, as Krandall often says. There seem to be enough breeders out there doing this now that it doesn’t eliminate many to keep this criteria on my list. It’s clean and unobtrusive, it’s less demanding, and all of the skills transfer right over to the outdoors.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Depending on how the ex pen is used, it can be so similar to crate training in methodology, it wouldn’t concern me.


In this case, it is completely different, because it means that the puppies have not slept seperately from each other. That’s a HUGE change for puppies going home.


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## Silk Dog (9 mo ago)

My pup was trained on pads and had little trouble transitioning to the outdoors. The pad training was a godsend. When he was sick and aged (15 years old) and on strong diuretics for his heart condition, he became incontinent. I thought to put down the puppy pads and he remembered! It saved him plenty of embarrassment and discomfort. (and saved my rugs.) So I don't understand the down side of pad training. Please explain those of you who are opposed to the idea.


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## HavaHopeful (10 mo ago)

krandall said:


> In this case, it is completely different, because it means that the puppies have not slept seperately from each other. That’s a HUGE change for puppies going home.


Do you think it’s important to find a breeder that has puppies sleep separate from each other? I’m having a very hard time finding this but think it would help prevent a pup from developing separation anxiety.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

HavaHopeful said:


> Do you think it’s important to find a breeder that has puppies sleep separate from each other? I’m having a very hard time finding this but think it would help prevent a pup from developing separation anxiety.


It would not be a deal-breaker for me, but if the puppies are already used to sleeping comfortably and happily in their own individual crates before leaving the breeder’s home, they won’t have much trouble doing the same when they get to their new home. A puppy who has ALWAYS slept with his litter mates and possibly also his mother, then is taken away from all of them, to a totally unfamiliar place, and asked to sleep on his own, even with a kindly stranger nearby, is going to have a MUCH harder transition. Some do OK, others have a number of nights of crying, carrying on and keeping everyone in the house awake. This, of course, also affects everyone’s mood (including the puppy!) during the waking hours. I would much rather ease that transition by teaching my puppies to sleep comfortably in their crates while they are still home, in comfortable, familiar surroundings, with the scent of their siblings right beside them! Then when they go to their new home, their crate is a place of comfort to them!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

krandall said:


> It would not be a deal-breaker for me, but if the puppies are already used to sleeping comfortably and happily in their own individual crates before leaving the breeder’s home, they won’t have much trouble doing the same when they get to their new home. A puppy who has ALWAYS slept with his litter mates and possibly also his mother, then is taken away from all of them, to a totally unfamiliar place, and asked to sleep on his own, even with a kindly stranger nearby, is going to have a MUCH harder transition. Some do OK, others have a number of nights of crying, carrying on and keeping everyone in the house awake. This, of course, also affects everyone’s mood (including the puppy!) during the waking hours. I would much rather ease that transition by teaching my puppies to sleep comfortably in their crates while they are still home, in comfortable, familiar surroundings, with the scent of their siblings right beside them! Then when they go to their new home, their crate is a place of comfort to them!


It might help a LITTLE in terms of separation anxiety, but that really is more in the hands of the new dog owner to teach. Because that is about being left home alone. Which is different.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Silk Dog said:


> My pup was trained on pads and had little trouble transitioning to the outdoors. The pad training was a godsend. When he was sick and aged (15 years old) and on strong diuretics for his heart condition, he became incontinent. I thought to put down the puppy pads and he remembered! It saved him plenty of embarrassment and discomfort. (and saved my rugs.) So I don't understand the down side of pad training. Please explain those of you who are opposed to the idea.


I’m not opposed to pads, a lot of breeders and pet owners use them, it’s the idea that someone can set up a large expen with a pad in the corner and the puppy be expected to figure out what it’s for. I’ve also heard of breeders sending families with pee pads even though the puppies haven’t ever used them. My breeder started her puppies indoors, and it was really useful. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to continue with a litter box and ended up starting a little late at home and he remembered right away. There was very little “missing the target,” which often comes up on the forum. Personally I prefer pine pellets to pads, which I learned about on the forum, but pads can work. Pellets are less expensive, are easier to clean up (because you just scoop out the tiny spot where they pee), and they absorb the pee along with any smell.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I’m not opposed to pads, a lot of breeders and pet owners use them, it’s the idea that someone can set up a large expen with a pad in the corner and the puppy be expected to figure out what it’s for. I’ve also heard of breeders sending families with pee pads even though the puppies haven’t ever used them. My breeder started her puppies indoors, and it was really useful. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to continue with a litter box and ended up starting a little late at home and he remembered right away. There was very little “missing the target,” which often comes up on the forum. Personally I prefer pine pellets to pads, which I learned about on the forum, but pads can work. Pellets are less expensive, are easier to clean up (because you just scoop out the tiny spot where they pee), and they absorb the pee along with any smell.


Agreed. I am not opposed to pads either. I am opposed to CLOTH "washable" pads, because they are made of cloth that dogs then confuse with other cloth items on the floor, like bath mats, scatter rugs and a towel inadvertently dropped on the floor. THAT is an easy mistake to understand, and a hard one to explain to them once they have learned that some kinds of cloth are OK.

The other reasons that I, personally, avoid pee pads are that unless they are in an enclosed tray, Havanese puppies (and many adults!!!) are such paper destroyers that they tera them up either before or (worse!!!!) after they use them. Secondly, they are a HUGE amount of waste going into our landfills! Pine pellets are a renewable resource and completely biodegradable. Add the fact that I have a sensitive nose that can't STAND a pee pad that has been used even once, and an odorless pellet tray is a HUGE improvement! But these are all personal choices. Other than the problems with cloth pads, if you have a dog that doesn't check them, there is no reason that they won't work in terms of potty training.


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## Silk Dog (9 mo ago)

Thanks very much for your replies. Did not know there were litter boxes for dogs? Or pine pellets!


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## HavaHopeful (10 mo ago)

krandall said:


> It would not be a deal-breaker for me, but if the puppies are already used to sleeping comfortably and happily in their own individual crates before leaving the breeder’s home, they won’t have much trouble doing the same when they get to their new home. A puppy who has ALWAYS slept with his litter mates and possibly also his mother, then is taken away from all of them, to a totally unfamiliar place, and asked to sleep on his own, even with a kindly stranger nearby, is going to have a MUCH harder transition. Some do OK, others have a number of nights of crying, carrying on and keeping everyone in the house awake. This, of course, also affects everyone’s mood (including the puppy!) during the waking hours. I would much rather ease that transition by teaching my puppies to sleep comfortably in their crates while they are still home, in comfortable, familiar surroundings, with the scent of their siblings right beside them! Then when they go to their new home, their crate is a place of comfort to them!


This is so helpful to know. Do you know of any Havanese breeders who teach their pups to sleep separately in crates?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

HavaHopeful said:


> This is so helpful to know. Do you know of any Havanese breeders who teach their pups to sleep separately in crates?


MANY do! It is typically only done in the last week before the puppies go home. That is when it is developmentally appropriate, and that is all that is needed. Since none of my puppy owners have flown in to get their puppies, I have had them bring (or have delivered from Amazon) their crates here, so I can use their own crates for the puppies to get used to. That way, the puppies go home to sleep in a crate they are already completely comfortable and familiar with. Obviously this won’t work if you need to fly to pick up your pup, but typically, the breeder will send home a blanket and/or stuffed animal that the puppies have been sleeping with, and smells like them, that can be used in your crate at home.

Here are my puppies, first thing in the morning, just after I’d let them out of their crates, and was waiting for them to potty, before moving them into their big weaning/play pen! One of the crates was outside the pen because they didn’t all fit, but still right beside the others, so they could see, hear and smell each other. (Ducky was already sleeping upstairs with us at this point, and I had just put him in with his sibs for the photo!)


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## HavaHopeful (10 mo ago)

krandall said:


> MANY do! It is typically only done in the last week before the puppies go home. That is when it is developmentally appropriate, and that is all that is needed. Since none of my puppy owners have flown in to get their puppies, I have had them bring (or have delivered from Amazon) their crates here, so I can use their own crates for the puppies to get used to. That way, the puppies go home to sleep in a crate they are already completely comfortable and familiar with. Obviously this won’t work if you need to fly to pick up your pup, but typically, the breeder will send home a blanket and/or stuffed animal that the puppies have been sleeping with, and smells like them, that can be used in your crate at home.
> 
> Here are my puppies, first thing in the morning, just after I’d let them out of their crates, and was waiting for them to potty, before moving them into their big weaning/play pen! One of the crates was outside the pen because they didn’t all fit, but still right beside the others, so they could see, hear and smell each other. (Ducky was already sleeping upstairs with us at this point, and I had just put him in with his sibs for the photo!)
> View attachment 177579


So cute! Do you close the individual crate doors at night? I talked to a breeder who had a similar setup for the week before puppies go to their homes… but the individual crate doors are left open which kind of seemed to defeat the purpose to me - or am I mistaken?


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## LWalks (Feb 7, 2021)

HavaHopeful said:


> This is so helpful to know. Do you know of any Havanese breeders who teach their pups to sleep separately in crates?


Our puppy’s breeder did as well…the last two weeks I believe they also rotated puppies so they had a couple in separate crates in the bedrooms, separate from mom and siblings (they had 14 pups from two litters at the same time, so our breeder said she and her husband slept in separate rooms to have more opportunities for this exposure). My first Hav, who is now almost 10, had been exposed as well, but I think it was just for naps, not overnight. But both of them were super comfortable in crates from the start, which was really helpful…. Especially since they had to be in travel bags on day 1 bc I flew home with both of them. I wouldn’t say that the no crate training is a deal breaker for me, but does make for an easier transition. And I did find in convos that it seemed that a lot of breeders doing all the socialization stuff I did really care about also did some level of crate preparation, and some type of early potty training.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> Did you post it in a new post or edit your old post? If you edited your old post, it would not come up again in people’s feeds, so they wouldn’t know to look. I know I haven’t seen it!


Sorry, I had meant that in the past I've posted links using dropbox for videos and I believe that they worked


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

HavaHopeful said:


> So cute! Do you close the individual crate doors at night? I talked to a breeder who had a similar setup for the week before puppies go to their homes… but the individual crate doors are left open which kind of seemed to defeat the purpose to me - or am I mistaken?


I leve the doors open when they are tounger, and the last week, they are closed in. You are right, if they are left open, it is not as effective in terms of training, though certainly better than nothing. By that last week, you would certainly know which puppy was going to be yours, so I suppose you could ASK that yours be shutin his crate over night for the last week!


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