# Pleasures vs. Perils of Havanese puppies



## tabby2 (Jan 19, 2009)

Several people suggested on another, somewhat related thread that we start a new thread on this topic, so I'm taking the plunge and throwing this out for discussion: 

We love our Havanese but that doesn't make us blind to their sometimes exasperating behaviors or the amount of time/responsibility that comes with having a puppy. Everyone's situation is different and every puppy is different, so whaddayu think? What's your experience? Cakewalk? Tightrope? Both? 

For me, I've raised several puppies, including one holy terror, so I was aware of what would be coming. Being able to see the funny side of things serves me well generally and I think is especially important in raising a puppy. I do my best, and fret and worry about him, but I ask for advice and help when I need it and remember that soon the puppy months will be a memory. 

Also, setting aside the pleasure/fun I get from my little BJ (16 weeks old on Saturday) and how much I love him, he could chew up, tear up, throw up on, poop and pee on everything in my house -- gee, I sure hope he doesn't read this and take it as an invitation -- and it would be worth it just because of the light and sparkle that's come back into Abby's eyes because of him. Abby is my beloved 8 year old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. We lost her older "brother" Tyler last year. Abby had been with him since she was 8 weeks old and, no matter how close she is to me, she became much older very fast without him. BJ, who sometimes drives her crazy and who finds her endlessly fascinating, has brought joy back to her life more than I could've hoped for. 

Jane


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Thanks Jane. I too have had a lot of puppy experience and maybe that is a key. We know that this too shall end, lol.
It's also a little easier for me because not much phases me. Things can be repaired or replaced but my fur kids give me such joy. 
Havanese are high maintenance and anyone thinking about one needs to be aware of it.
Vinny has always been easy except for his needing to herd and organize. He came here at 8 weeks and was easy to completely potty train. He lays and stays perfectly still when being groomed. A delight. He is waaay tooo big, lol.
Lulu still leaves us a tootsie roll every now and then. She was hard to potty train and impossible to groom. She has a heart of gold and i just love her.
Gabby is 15 weeks old, what more can I say. One day she gets it and the next day she looses it. Sometimes she uses the doggy door, other days she pees in the house 5 times. I clean it up. I don't like it but it comes with the territory. She knows who is mommy and wraps her little paws around my neck and snuggles. Precious baby.
They are all different but they all require work. 
I could have a responsibility free life or my furkids. This is my choice.
I just hope prospective puppy buyers read all these posts and realize it is not a bed of roses.
Carole


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## tabby2 (Jan 19, 2009)

I
I just hope prospective puppy buyers read all these posts and realze it is not a bed of roses.
Carole[/QUOTE]

Or maybe it is a bed of roses, but that includes the thorns!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

No sugar coating about my boys or me. I was basically a first time dog owner... We have no kids...so I did sweat the small stuff and researched and read and was very prepared except for the things you can't be prepared for. Jasper was an easy puppy as he has always been an old soul and very independent. that being said, he chewed my doors, my pillows and my rugs...managed to find a staple and staple his jaw shut as a puppy. And sometimes my DH & I joke that we are too boring for him, that he would rather be by himself. He was not dependable with house training until he was 8 months... had a relapse at 11 months where I had to go back to square one for a week but is now completely dependable (except in pet stores where he has been known to mark) I have to have his anal glands expressed every 6-8 wks, he is a food fusser, goes crazy at the mailman and SUV's... and has his "moods." 

Cash seemed like a terror...but actually he was just a normal puppy next to Jasper. He also chewed my doors, a cabinet, and the support dowel under a wicker chair... he stole all of Jaspers toys-- and terrorized him. He hated his xpen and howled like a cross between a cat in heat and an orangatang when we left him in it...he hated his crate and never went in happily but learned to be content. He seemed slower at potty training... but part of that was he was so low to the ground we couldn't see him squat...so on his 2nd day with us I took our a scissors and trimmed his glorious coat so that he looked like something the cat drug in...but I could see him start to squat and correct him. I wanted to give him back and as I wrote in the other thread my DH put his foot down saying "this is not a pair of shoes you can just return." His passion startled me and he was right in our situation. Pets were disposable in my family growing up... we would beg, my mom would give in, and either we were allergic, or the dog could not be housetrained, or we were too young for the responsibility she wanted us to take...so the dogs were always taken to a rescue. So DH's comments stung me but also made me realize that Cash was worth the time to train. And train we did. He too was not dependable til 10 months and had a relapse at about 11 months but is completely dependable more so than Jasper in that he does not mark. 
Cash also had a bunch of medical expenses as a pup... 4 months sprained an ankle, 7 months severe gastritus, 13 months a severe undiagnosed (expensive) neurological disease (likely tick borne or protozoan.) He is always hungry and is a poop eater. 

But I adore my boys... so it is all worth it. When Jasper looks right into my eyes and gives me kisses. When Cash snuggles or acts like a clown. When Jasper asks to go out by staring us down and grumbling... But mostly, it is coming home whether I have been gone for 5 minutes or 5 hours and I see their little wiggle butts. Yes there are times, we remember we used to be able to go away for a weekend without any notice...or spend a saturday doing nothing instead of walking, bathing, drying, brushing, feeding, playing, training the boys. And there are times I think I am crazy to spend the money I do on them...vets, food, grooming, petsitters, toys, toys, toys. lotions and potions and brushes and training tools. But I think I will always have a Havanese now. They have infected me and my DH.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Benji and Lizzie both have gentle personalities and sweet temperaments. I never had them chewing anything, not even the magazines that sat in a rack on the floor. Benji has always been a very active and playful dog. Lizzie is completely laid back. Benji demands more attention in that he constantly is thinking of something to do with you- playing ball, watching computer screen sitting in your lap, asking to play with his favourite ball or Skinneeze toys, wanting to watch TV etc. Lizzie on the other hand amuses herself with her toys or sitting at the front door. 

They both got potty trained by 6 months. Benji HATES rain, moist weather so it is frustrating when it rains. He holds or refuses to go out to the patio for his business. They prefer to do it on indoor piddle pad. Since it didn't rain frequently in California, I could deal with it during the rainy months , but I have had to put up with "indoor potty-piddle pad spot regularly ever since we moved to the East Coast. It rains quite often here and they both got used to using the indoor piddle pad. 

Lizzie inspite of all my training for separation anxiety never could overcome it and she literally gets into panic attacks. When she starts to panic and howl, Benji refuses to leave her and he starts crying. So I can't leave her alone at home. It is not convenient to take them both to the vet's office when only one needs to go. Lizzie is very attached to Benji and she cries and whines when anyone at the vet's office touches him. 

No matter how much work and painful tasks are involved in taking care of these cute and sweet furballs, I adore them and cannot imagine a life without them. Their unconditional love is priceless.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

*Lizzie inspite of all my training for separation anxiety never could overcome it and she literally gets into panic attacks. When she starts to panic and howl, Benji refuses to leave her and he starts crying. So I can't leave her alone at home. It is not convenient to take them both to the vet's office when only one needs to go. Lizzie is very attached to Benji and she cries and whines when anyone at the vet's office touches him. *

Poornima, that is so cute and so familiar. Be careful! That's how I ended up with Gabby, I couldn't leave one home alone, lol.
Carole


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

When we first brought Pixie home, it was a flashback of when my daughter was a baby-no sleep. It was a kick in the pants, but after finding what works, she was just fine. She's such a good dog-I have very little to complain about. I really keep her indoors alot of the time-lots of big dogs running around the neighborhood that would make a Scooby snack out of her. She's very small, so I think it works out well. Plus it miserably hot and humid now, and pretty much everyone stays inside in the A/C. Having a dog does limit you more, but so far it's not that big of a deal. My mom adores her and watches her when we want to go out. I 've thought of getting another, and I have thought about the possible temperment differences. 99% chance I won't be getting another hav (but I sure like to kick tires!!), because I will be getting my mom's 4 YO tzu when the 13 YO tzu goes to the rainbow bridge. I've second guessed that decision too, but I think it will be good for my dog and for the tzu also. She is a very calm, nice dog and she gets along well with Pixie. 
To recap-puppyhood is tough-that's why God made them soo adorable. Pixie has become a member of our family and we couldn't be happier with her.


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*poop eating...*

Goodness I forgot all about this! It stopped when I switched foods to something easier to digest! Yuck this was really a shocker at first!

Riki was the energizer bunny he hopped up in the air on the leash and our trainer made him a long stick leash so he had to stay near the ground when he walked. He still loves to jump which is why he is a good agility dog.

Riki barks like a dalmation. It is loud and piercing. A spray of bianca did the trick, how all he has to do is see the tube.

Puppy matting at age nine months...oh from nine months to about a year and a half. They matt just looking at them.

Lickies...mine love to do it, but at least their tongues are little.

My dogs have never chewed up anything but toilet paper, so I'm lucky. Riki still has the same stuffed toy he had as a baby.

I paid a trainer a lot of money to come to my home once a week for six weeks...worth every penny.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Maybe it is because I grew up with Goldens then got a high energy dominant maltese but I personally think the Havanese are super easy. They are happy, smart, pleasing, etc. I went through a chewing stage with Dora but nothing actually being proactive and using the bitter apple for a weeks wouldn't cure. 

I think all of my dogs have been different but it just involves a go with the flow attitude and to reflect on what works for you and adjust your training if it isn't working. Not everything works for each dog and sometimes you get into a stumbling zone (mine is Isabelle's barking!) I also think if you can dedicate yourself to really concentrate on the potty training the first few weeks, it pays off tenfold. I also can't stress enough having a pup come from a breeder who started potty training, walking on leash, integrating the dog from puppy to adult etc. makes your so much easier. My last pup came from an amazing breeder and I got to be lazy but I also was much more educated on little dogs and my own dogs easily picked up my slack. He went thru the dog door to potty the day he came home and I think he has honestly had one accident ever. I also think you can try and plan everything ahead and a lot of times, that doesn't work. Our dogs live in the moment so should we- about adjusting to them, training them, etc.

The list of pleasures goes on and on. My pups are so much pleasure from face baths, to snuggling at night, to stress relievers when I have had a long day and need to not think but throwing a fuzzy toy is more than enough. I could easily have a few more, just gotta find a new home for DH, more hours in the day, and a lot more money (remember here the cost of the dog is nothing- everything that goes with them and for me the training easily doubles that the first year!)


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Okay, the other big picture why I think a lot of the puppies don't work out is people aren't honest with how much time they have to dedicate to a dog. Reality is these guys take a lot of our time and you can't buy that, replace it with a toy, etc. I think when you don't have the time that is when the potty training, the barking, the bad things really tend to happen. There is some stuff you can pay to have done- the grooming, the day care to get some energy out, the assistance with training, etc. but you still need to put in your own time. I think a lot of people don't realize how much time they take or think they have more time than they do but a dog can't just be something you see 2 hours a night before you go to bed after work, happy hour, and dinner. I know a lot of people on the forum work and have healthy havs but most of them don't have children, have their spouse involved, don't have a life (neither do I so I can say this!), etc.

If I were honestly to guess how much time I spend non stop one on one time with my dogs- condensing it, I would say an average day is 2 hours. That is spread out throughout the day. That is not counting me just sitting on the couch watching tv next to the dog, etc. That is how much time I spend just interacting one on one with my dogs. When they are puppies it is a lot more. Also with having more than one, they use a lot of their energy and mental stimulation out on each other.

When I think of the worst time with my dogs it was a period with my maltese where we moved to a new place and I went back to school. She no longer was able to go to work with me and she was at home. That is when she was the "baddest." But she honestly wasn't getting enough one on one time to wear her out mentally and physically.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I agree with Amanda. The best thing we did was carve out the time for each new puppy. The longer you can spend being vigilant with house training the better chance for long term success. I took two weeks vacation each time and my DH took a week after me. By the end of that time-- the boys knew that we were boss, we were there for them, and they wanted to please us. Were they perfect-- No. But they had a great foundation on which to build. Did the feeling of a lot of work stop for us--No. But again we had a language worked out with them that made it feel like there was light at the end of the tunnel. 

I also accepted that potty training was going to be harder with Neezers and gave it all the time, patience (most of the time) and vigilance it required.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

*Okay, the other big picture why I think a lot of the puppies don't work out is people aren't honest with how much time they have to dedicate to a dog. Reality is these guys take a lot of our time and you can't buy that, replace it with a toy, etc.* I think when you don't have the time that is when the potty training, the barking, the bad things really tend to happen. There is some stuff you can pay to have done- the grooming, the day care to get some energy out, the assistance with training, etc. but you still need to put in your own time. I think a lot of people don't realize how much time they take or think they have more time than they do but a dog can't just be something you see 2 hours a night before you go to bed after work, happy hour, and dinner.

Emphasis mine. Amanda, I couldn't agree more. It takes a lot of time, patience to maintain these dogs.

Every dog is different and the care needed is sightly different. Just to illustrate my point, Benji is not a food lover and I have to force feed him a little to make sure he doesn't get acidity. This is a dog who refueses to eat his favorite treats if he doesn't want to eat. Lizzie on the other hand loves to eat. I can't leave any food out for Benji to munch on when he feels like eating after a long fast if I needed to go out. I know for a fact that Lizzie will eat it right away. So one has to have patience, flexibility and adjust to such situations and work around it.

And.....then there are butt baths....why is it that when you are completely dressed up and ready to step out that one of the dogs goes on "unscheduled" potty call! :Cry:

Carole, I often joke about getting a buddy for Lizzie so that we can keep her home when needed!


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

> I know a lot of people on the forum work and have healthy havs but most of them don't have children, have their spouse involved, don't have a life


That's exactly right Amanda!! That's us!! In exchange for having the wonderful companionship of our beautiful dogs even though we both work full time away from home we gave up things like going to movies (theaters are pretty gross anyway), eating out more than just occassionally, going to parties when dogs aren't invited and other stuff I can't think of right now. We both come straight home from work. I set my alarm to get up earlier than I normally would so that I can spend time with the dogs before I have to get ready for work. If we travel on the weekends, they come too. It's a trade off we are happy to make but I know many people love having an active social life. We have an active social life but our parties these days are doggie play dates!! :biggrin1:


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## SnobunnieNY (Oct 24, 2007)

I have read the other thread that promted this one and havent made any comments until now. At first glance getting a puppy is all sweet puppy breath and wiggle butts! Then reality sets in. And we all handle that on different planes. (Your planes going east mines going to St. Thomas!) A puppy is work. A puppy is rewarding. A puppy can be exasperating and "how the heck to get this fuzzy butt to understand what I want". A puppy is also a joy! A puppy can be "is NO! the only word in my vocabulary?" A puppy can be a stressor good and bad. 

But so can anything else in life. And like anything else in life we all deal with our stressors and frustrations differently. Some people can take things in stride that send me through the roof! And things that dont get to me, send them up there! I have always said what a sad, small world this would be if we were all the same. VIVA LA DIFFERENCE! (in our dogs too!) 

But as Amanda said compared to my Goldens - Boo was a "piece of cake"! The goldens were SO much more work. Yes, the "you want me to go poo there OKay I will" was easy. But they were just by thier size more of everthing. Bigger poo, bigger food, bigger baths, bigger playing, bigger chewing of shoes, bigger shaking the head and letting it fly, bigger ear infections, bigger wet dog, bigger tails to sweep everything off the table with. Bigger Tumblewees of hair everywhere you look. They never got the this is mine - that is yours thing! Yes we loved them and they us but it was more of a "all I want to do is love you smothering love"

But for Boos size - Id say he is the bigger love! He looks at me with a look of confident love that you wont stop loving me if I cant see you kind of love." Yes Boo took a bit longer to get the potty thing - 6 months longer "you want "ME" to go out in that long green sticking up stuff and do what? there's a perfectly good smooth surface right here right now!" Now he is completely reliable and even has a prefence for having something un-even under him when he's pooing, like a spot of left over snow or a patch of fallen leaves and if he cant find one he'll hold it- for ever! He was never a chewer of our things, but I have always supplied him with plenty of his own (things) to destroy and carry around. He cant keep a soft squishy toy intact for more than a few hours! But for some reason never really bothered our pillows or my sons toys and if he did grab one I just quickly replaced one of our with one of his. And he gets the this is mine that is yours thing. But that took time. He went through his "teenage stage". But just like my sons growing I love watching Boos changes - good and bad. His coat is now excellent work with, but went throught the horrible stage. I was lucky with him, but I also had past experiences to work off. And as was mentioned above also having a breeder who has taught some basics helps too. As did Puppy school. It was funny the class Boo and I were in had 7 golden puppies in it. I love thier antics but love and appreciated my Hav even more!! 

I guess bottom line for me I love that possibilities that a puppy holds even the difficult ones. And we've had difficulties with pups and aged dogs as well, but for me its all part of the wheel we call life. Maybe thats just my philosophy Life is worth living all of it. (Wow - where did this all come from and who opened the box that let it out?)


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

One of the many excellent breeders on this forum also stresses something I think we can sometimes forget, temperament matters. That breeder bred Gabby and I thank her for her temperament.
If we don't match up well with a puppy then it is easier to get frustrated and maybe not stick by the puppy through think and thin. Also our life situations matter. I think it would be very difficult to have a new puppy and a new baby or toddler. In order to give them both the attention they need you would have to be a supermom, lol.
Havs are companion dogs. You can't just box them up and leave them alone or stick them in the yard or the garage! (For me, you can't do that with any pet) But some dogs are better suited to being left outside, not a hav.
Carole


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I love this thread - I think it is great to see the good with the bad. 
but having raised a "very spirited" child, and another child who is a breeze, I find that the pups are no different!! 
Lily is my barker, Lexi is afraid, Logan is overly active sometimes & sometimes eats poop. - The butt wipes, the wet feet, the throw up, the ticks, brushing, and brushing and brushing - AND I WOULD NOT TRADE IT FOR ANYTHING!!

Last year when I fell & broke my upper arm, I was totally disabled for 2 weeks, they never left my bed!! They were my companions then and through all rough times!! 

Each time I bring a rescue/foster in, I start all over again with the potty training, etc - as if they were puppies - so am I crazy??? I dont think so!!


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

I agree, Carole. I am so thankful to my breeder for breeding pups with wonderful temperaments. It never fails to endear them to even people who are not into pets or animals.


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## Sandi Kerger (Mar 18, 2009)

I am having a hard time finding anything bad about Havs, unless maybe the accidents that happen once in awhile, which is nothing, every dog has them.

I have to say I have had dogs in my life many many times, but nothing like the Havanese.

I even think it is cute when Fipsy goes in the bathroom,shreds the toilet paper, then takes the whole roll and distributes it around the whole house. She loves coming in the office getting in my garbage can and shredding paper. I have never seen a dog shred so much, but you know what I have to laugh every time she does it. She looks so cute sitting by a mound of shredded paper. 

I guess our lifestyle has changed too since we got her, in that I don't like leaving her alone and try to take her everywhere with us, but that is a small price to pay and I think she has enhanced our lives so much! Some of my friends can't believe how crazy I am about her. 

I wish I could get another one. They are just the best dogs.

Sandi.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I fell victim to MHS almost immediately and luckily have a loving, and forgiving, DH who was as happy as I was to add another less than a year after the first. We were new dog owners, he had them growing up but I didn't, so we were really flying blind from the beginning. We read a lot and found this forum, I refer to it OFTEN!

Scooter was a joy from the beginning. That's not to say it wasn't a lot of work and worry. He hated his crate, we messed up by putting in in the laundry room at night, wouldn't eat, had lots of accidents, etc. But he curled up on my feet when he'd sleep, or in my lap if I was on the floor. Whenever our youngest son was home his lap was Scooter's bed! I laughed and cried many times and probably had PPD, post-puppy depression for a while! :becky: In the end though he gave us so much more than we gave him! Every day he makes me laugh countless times, give me tons of kisses and snuggles and they're priceless.

Murphy was a gamble since he was a rescue but he's been a love-bug since day one. He loves to fall asleep in a lap but only lasts a few minutes and wants to stretch out. Kisses are given freely and to everyone! It's been a challenge having gates up again as we'd just taken them down but I'll gladly step over a gate to have him as a part of our family.

They take up tons of our time, money, and energy! I buy them more than they need but realize most of that is really for me. (DH laughs!) We buy them expensive food and treats because the quality is good and don't blink at the cost but cut coupons for our food! We eat out and go out much less because we don't want to leave them home alone in their crates. I worry about their health and well-being just like I worry over the kids.

They're small enough to take with us but big enough to play with. They don't shed! We have been so blessed to have these lovely little dogs in our life! And I wouldn't have "met" so many new friends on here if it weren't for them!

They love us, what more can you ask for?


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I agree that temperament is so very important. I also think that much time is needed to train a puppy, havanese or otherwise. We knew getting a puppy would change our lives. We knew there had to be a 12, 15 or more years commitment. 

The 'cons' are definitely the house training and my boys being SO in love with me, making me feel like crap leaving them with someone. It has only happened once, for a vacation the family took, but we are leaving them with someone new this summer and I'm STRESSED to the max about it! It's not their fault, but I feel guilty.

What was first a con, Ricky being needy and highly intelligent so was bored often, turned into a huge 'plus' because it's what made us decide to get Sammy. 

If you don't like grooming, then you'd better have enough money to keep these Havs clipped or groomed regularly. 

The biggest plus has been that I've learned to enjoy life in the moment a little more. I laugh more often, just watching their antics and I've made some good friends. My passion for them has led me to a part-time job that I love (animal nutrition) and has me worrying so much less about housework. lol


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