# 1 Million Questions Cont'd - EVO Kibble?



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm seriously thinking of switching Saydee from Solid Gold Wee Bits to Evo kibble. I've been trying to research it and see so many good things with Evo, but still have a couple of questions. I'd love to hear *everyone's* input.

She's 17 weeks old and on the dog food analysis website, they suggest Evo's high protein and calcium is "suitable for adult dogs only." Why? Wouldn't higher protein be a great source of energy for a little active pup? Is there a good grain-free kibble for puppies?

I see concerns regarding kidneys and the high protein content, and while I know it's been discussed in this forum, I wonder if the kidney thing is *really* an issue?

Once a lady at the pet store told me the high protein can make your dog fat. I can't imagine Saydee fat because she's so active, and the higher carbs in kibble with grains seems like it would be more likely to cause weight gain than the high protein...

Which leads to my next question. How much kibble should Saydee be eating at this age? Should dogs have *less* Evo than "regular" kibble? Right now she has about 1/3 c. Wee Bits with a healthy spoonful of wet food, or some other flavorful garnish 2X a day.

The potato thing. I've read about potato eyes being *toxic* to doggies. Evo has potatoes and the Natura website says they use the whole potato, including the skin, in Evo. That doesn't make sense to me.

I'm beginning to think that possibly rotating some really good kibbles might be a great idea. For example, a bag of Evo, then a bag of Instinct, then Innova Puppy, etc. Then, if Saydee's getting too much of something, or not enough, from one kibble, the next bag/brand may provide the variety needed. Does anybody else do that?

I've had good results with previous dogs (Maltese) and Innova. I'm wondering if I combined Innova Puppy with Evo, say half and half, I might have a nice balance, particularly if Evo is not good for puppies. Or perhaps there's something else I could add?

I always like to put a little something *fresh* to the kibble to keep it interesting. Cottage cheese, cubed chicken, a spoon of canned food, shredded cheese, or salmon oil. Any other yummy suggestions for "spicing" up kibble?

I know there are so many folks on this forum that use Evo for their fur babies. I've tried some samples with Saydee and she really seems to like it alot. I've done so much research lately on dog food my head is spinning. I was convinced Evo was the best kibble for Saydee and now I'm just confused.


----------



## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

The whole bad for the kidney issue with high protein kibble has largely been debunked. Early tests were done with protein from plant sources which are much harder for the kidneys. If you go to the Orijen website, they do have white paper on it that is definitely worth reading.

Evo is high in calcium and protein. Too much calcium for a puppy is not good. I don't remember the full reason why but I do remember reading about that. Personally I wouldn't feed Evo fully but maybe mix it in with your current food. As indicated Evo and Innova would probably be very good.

Just like any food, too much of it and not enough excersise will make any dog fat. Just follow the recommended feeding instructions on the bag as a guideline. That should do you fine.

It is actually recommended to not keep your dog on one kibble for it's entire life. It can lead to allergies. The recommendation is to find 3 bags of good kibble from 3 different manufacturers and switch them every 3 bags or so. This will give your dog a more varied and healthier diet. What you want to do is provide a balanced diet, not necessarily every day but over time. I feed my guys raw and they get chicken, beef, turkey, bison, lamb, elk, etc 

You could also try probiotic plain yogurt, an egg (I recommend bringing water to boil, take off heat, then place the egg in it for 5min. Then feed). You could mix in one egg, some cottage cheese, and some yogurt. Stick it in the freezer til frozen. Then fees in place of a meal. Your dog will love it. 

Potatoes are a good source of carbohydrate, which are also a good source of B vitamins and other minerals . If a potato gets green patches on it, that contains solanine, which is very bad for both humans and dogs, though dogs seem to have a particularly bad reaction to it. Potato sprouts also have a good deal of solanine in it. You wouldn't eat them because they taste extremely foul, though dogs can be dumb that way. Solanine isn't cooked away; it's stable at the temperatures we cook potatoes at.

You'll want to cut away green patches on potatoes before you cook them just because it doesn't taste good, but there's not enough in there to do you any real harm, either, at least not in a single potato. You should certainly cut away any sprouts, too, for the same reason.

So... if your dog gets into a bunch of sprouted potatoes, and is dumb enough to eat them, things may not turn out well. And one baked potato isn't going to kill your dog; there's just not that much solanine in it. And since the solanine is only on the skin, a dog can safely eat peeled potatoes until it hurls. 

In fact, many dog food manufacturers put potatoes in their dog foods as an inexpensive and tasty filler. Such things are perfectly safe because they start with peeled potatoes.


----------



## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Hi Maya,

All of this aside, you just have to try it to see if agrees with your actual dog. I tried Evo and it was just too rich for my boys - it gave them the runs. Good luck!


----------



## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

I assume that Saydee is doing well on Solid Gold. Since this is a relatively good dog food, is there a reason to switch? 

I am one the opposes high protein in puppies for no reason.


----------



## Krimmyk (Dec 7, 2006)

Sully is so darn picky, he loves Evo big bites they really are not that big either. But he is forced to chew them. His coat is looking great with it, and the poo is tiny!!!


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I mix two kibbles for my dogs- now it is Evo with Grammies- I like the grammies cause it will get the gravy more but I think nutrition, I like the Evo better. I think my guys would probably do fine on all Evo as they seem to do fine on high protein. Not one of them is overweight but Belle put on some weight. Solid Gold was probably the best at her gaining weight though. I just like the idea of having two kibbles mixed together so all their nutrition doesn't come from one.


----------



## Maxmom (Jul 22, 2008)

You should be able to get free samples of Evo to see how Saydee does. I get mine at my groomers and they have little sample bags and will let me have as many as I want.

I switched Max to Evo a month ago. The only difference I see is he doesn't eat as much. I'm going to get the red meat next time because he seemed to like the sample I had.

Janan


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Thanks everybody. 

Daniel, I appreciate the advice. I agree, alternating foods sounds like a good plan. She really seems to like Evo - it's the only kibble I've found that she will eat plain! So far no issues with loose stool, etc. However, I think I will go ahead and mix it with the Solid Gold or Innova while she's a puppy. I don't want to take any chances with her health. 

Cheryl - Solid Gold works just fine for Saydee, as long as I enhance it with wet food, cottage cheese, etc. Otherwise, she will not touch it. Solid Gold Wee Bits is what the breeder had her on, so we've stuck with it. 

I do prefer Innova/Evo because I think overall it's just a better quality food. That's just my opinion.  I've also seen rating polls and websites like dogfoodanalysis.com that seem to always rank Natura products very high on the list. Just having Saydee on Evo for a few days I've already seen tinier poops. That's a big indicator that the food she is ingesting is more useful to her body, allowing her to absorb more nutrients, producing less waste. Plus, I've heard such glowing reports regarding results of Evo and other higher protein diets from folks on this forum. 

Another reason why I'm leaning towards a grain-free diet is that I've heard it can help with tear stains. I have no idea if it will help, but I'd like to give it a go. 

I like the reasoning behind a raw diet, but don't feel that I've personally reached that point - yet. In the meantime, Evo is probably the best raw diet alternative kibble.


----------



## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Tori is currently on Taste of the Wild kibble. We settled on TOTW because _it_ was the only kibble she'd eat plain, unlike Saydee, she didn't seem to care much for the Evo kibble. She just started her third bag of TOTW, so I may switch her to something else next time. Maybe we'll try Evo again, just in case her taste buds have changed.


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

I've seen TOTW but haven't yet tried it. I think it's pretty much like Evo. Do they use potato?


----------



## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Yes, TOTW is high quality and grain free. They have 3 flavors: Wetlands (mostly duck and pheasant) Prairie (venison and bison) and Pacific Stream (salmon and ocean fish) and they do use potatoes, regular and sweet. Dogfoodanalysis gives 2 of the 3 flavors 6*s. The salmon flavor only gets 5*s because they _"are not able to locate a statement on the manufacturer's website guaranteeing the use of ethoxyquin-free protein sources"_


----------



## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

I feed all three of mine Evo mixed with my own homed cooked meat, chicken, fish or whatever I have available at the time. All three are thriving on it, but you do have to watch the portion sizes and according to their feeding chart, you will feed less of Evo than the Wee Bits, as it is not only higher in protein, but in fat as well. If you feed the same amount she might gain weight. Bugsy is very active and he gets 1/4 cup of kibble mixed with home cooked diet twice a day and his weight is fine. I would guess that in total (kibble and home cooked) he eats approximately 1/3 to 1/2 cup twice a day. 

I also like switching kibble every three bags (we are on a third bag of evo), we are going with Orijens. 

Good luck and just remember to switch her slowly to not cause the upset stomach.


----------



## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Todd's eating a mix of Solid Gold puppy and Orijen.
They are the only two foods that I could get him to eat out of 15 sample bags that we tried. When he's a little older I'll wean him onto straight Orijen but for now he's loving the mix.


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Thanks so much! It's nice to hear other folks like to mix things up a little, too. Good point, Julia about the need for smaller portions with Evo. That didn't occur to me until this morning when I gave Saydee the 1/3 c. of Evo (same amount I normally feed Solid Gold) and she didn't finish it!


----------



## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Scooter eats Evo red meat, small bites and he likes it. I mix it with cottage cheese, that was a suggestion from the forum, and he's doing great.


----------



## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

There was a warning that came out about feeding different foods to young dogs as it may create allergies later in life. I wish I could remember where it's at because I've felt that if you feed them different foods as puppies that if you can't get your normal food or need to change, they don't react badly to the change.
I did that with all of my adult dogs and they can change foods daily if need be with no problems.....unless wet puppy food gets in the mix. Then I have messy butts to clean if they get a whole can of it.


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

I agree Jan
I think a wide variety of foods makes their little bodies and minds more flexible and willing to accept change. Saydee doesn't get messy butt from wet food, but I only add like 1 tbsp to her dry food just to kind of coat the kibble and make it more appetizing. I also microwave it for about 8 seconds just to eliminate the cold from the refrigerator. However, if she doesn't like the kibble, she'll suck the wet food off of it and spit it back out!


----------



## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

*Lilly eats EVO and Tast of the Wild ( I vary the flavors of the TOTW). She is doing great and her coat feels super soft and very thick I must add. She has no poopy butts.*


----------



## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Vinny and Lulu eat Evo chicken small bites exclusively. This bag's almost gone so maybe I will try mixing TOTW with it. They have always been the pickiest eaters ever so it was my choice to do the Evo because it was the closest to raw. I do demand feeding and it works for us. They seem to eat when they are hungry and I've stopped stressing about it, lol. Neither are over or under weight, their stools are small and firm and their coats are soft. The last could be from the fish oil capsule they get everyday? No tear stains.
I've had the same concerns as you about the 42% protein. I don't know....
Carole


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Yes, I was 100% sold on Evo until my natural pet food store mentioned the high protein content could be detrimental. The gal there was happy to sell me Evo, but also directed my attention to several other brands stating the protein content and sometimes the potato can cause a problem. I was surprised! Of course, so much information about pet food has to be taken with a grain of salt. I tend to trust the overall census of this forum over a tidbit I read on a website or heard from a salesperson 

I demand fed my two little old lady maltese dogs and that worked well until one developed diabetes. By then, both dogs were almost 9 years old and it was really hard to start limit feedings. I had to go down to twice daily feeding both of them in order to monitor Millie's diabetes and I think they both thought I was trying to starve them.

Does anybody feed their *puppy *Evo?


----------



## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> There was a warning that came out about feeding different foods to young dogs as it may create allergies later in life. I wish I could remember where it's at because I've felt that if you feed them different foods as puppies that if you can't get your normal food or need to change, they don't react badly to the change.
> I did that with all of my adult dogs and they can change foods daily if need be with no problems.....unless wet puppy food gets in the mix. Then I have messy butts to clean if they get a whole can of it.


From what I've read it's actually the opposite. Keeping them on one food is more than likely to cause allergies. It would be the equivalent of feeding a child the exact same diet every day for the first couple of year of his life. Eventually his body will react to it in a bad way. For puppies though, I don't think there is any conclusive proof either way. But even though most bags of kibble say it a balanced diet, you truly won't get a balanced diet from feeding just one type of kibble. You definitely need to switch things around, giving them a break entirely from one kibble to something else, whether it be home cooked, raw, or other kibble.


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

DanielBMe said:


> But even though most bags of kibble say it a balanced diet, you truly won't get a balanced diet from feeding just one type of kibble. You definitely need to switch things around, giving them a break entirely from one kibble to something else, whether it be home cooked, raw, or other kibble.


I totally agree. Plus, if there's something bad in the food (recalled, or not) at least they aren't exposed to it year after year. I also feel like the rotating diet could actually *help avoid allergies*. Allergies often worsen over time with increased exposure to the allergen. I know this because I'm highly allergic to cats and the allergy has worsened over the years, but when I was a kid I had a cat that slept in my room!


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

If anyone wants to read a real eye opener on dog food. A book titled Food Pets Die For. is an excellent read. It is a research into the pet food industry . Its by Ann Martin , probably the worlds formost researcher on pet foods. It is shocking to say the least.


----------



## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

The only advice I can give is that if Saydee has a large appetite, like my Lola surely does, feeding her kibble that has grain in it *may* satisfy her appetite more because she gets more volume. Grain-free recommended feeding volume is less than those with grains. I like the contents of NV Prairie - venison, salmon and lamb kibbles.

I find that Lola's got a pretty strong constitution, so the rich foods don't impact her stools. The only time Lola has had an upset stomach and diarrhea was when she ate an entire bag of treats that were in the car console. She paid for it!!!

I subscribe to the philosophy that dogs need to build up some tolerance for the ingestion of things unexpected. Like that 3 day old piece of pepperoni they find on the street. So I give Lola a wide variety of foods from the top of the nutrition lists, including raw at times. I am lucky because she is not a picky eater at all. And during the day she'll get one high quality treat like kongs filled with yogurt or cream cheese, or a raw meaty bone. My little furbaby is spoiled, and tough as nails! And only 10 pounds.


----------



## isshinryu_mom (Mar 23, 2008)

Roxie (8 months) is eating Innova Evo Small Bites dry dog food. My vet said I could start switching her over to an adult food so we tried the Grammys Pot Pie dry by Merrick (which she would not eat) then the Innova (which she eats, but doesn't seem all that crazy about). We got a rather large trial size bag at Pet Supplies Plus for $1.00 and are now half way through our first 5 lb. bag. I can't say I've seen much difference in her coat or energy level or anything although her poops are smaller in volume but still a bit soft. She was eating Purina Pro Plan. She does probably get too many treats and a bit of this or that thrown in her bowl with her kibble. (Those little eyes get me every time!)


----------



## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

davetgabby said:


> If anyone wants to read a real eye opener on dog food. A book titled Food Pets Die For. is an excellent read. It is a research into the pet food industry . Its by Ann Martin , probably the worlds formost researcher on pet foods. It is shocking to say the least.


I agree, it's a very worthwhile read!


----------



## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Scooter is on Evo Red Meat small bites. He's doing well on it and the vet is happy with his size, neither over or under weight. I mix in cottage cheese and he loves it with that. After reading this thread though I'm wondering if I should offer some different things in with the kibble? Maybe some cooked chicken or something??? How does everyone figure all of this out? I thought you just gave dogs dog food.


----------



## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

> How does everyone figure all of this out? I thought you just gave dogs dog food.


For the most part, just by reading what others are doing and experimenting. As long as the food is healthy you Hav should be fine.


----------



## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Okay would it mix it up enough to just mix a couple bags of kibble and have different flavors of wet added to each meal?


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Dave T. -
I read that book in college, and even did a paper on it. Shockingly important stuff for pet owners. A must read.


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Hey Amy

I don't know if mixing bags together would provide the kind of variety I was thinking of. I was imagining feeding a few bags of product A, then switching to product B, then C, then back to A, rotating maybe 3 or 4 different kibbles a year. 

Of course the theory behind this is all just my uneducated opinion :biggrin1:
I just like the idea if there's something bad in one kibble, at least the pup is not exposed to it on a constant basis. Switching kibble would be a "cleansing" so to speak. Also, if product A is missing something, they might get it from product B. Considering the main ingredients, I may do a mainly chicken kibble, then beef, then lamb, etc. Possibly trying to cover all the bases by mixing products A, B & C may be a bit much - too many ingredients.

I do like spicing up the kibble on a daily basis with different fresher items, wet foods, cottage cheese, etc. just to prevent boredom.

If I use EVO for Saydee, it most likely won't be the only kibble in her life. I'll try to switch a few bags down the line. Whether it's a grain-free kibble, or not, remains to be seen


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Just an update to all my kind forum advisors. I called Natura and asked them about feeding Evo to puppies. I was told that they don't recommend it for LARGE BREED puppies, but that it's perfectly fine to feed to smaller breeds and that there is no risk with the higher protein or calcium. I repeated my question just to be sure, "So it's safe to feed Evo to my 5 month old Havanese puppy?" I was assured that it was perfectly fine. Just thought I'd share...


----------



## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

SaydeeMomma said:


> Hey Amy
> 
> I don't know if mixing bags together would provide the kind of variety I was thinking of. I was imagining feeding a few bags of product A, then switching to product B, then C, then back to A, rotating maybe 3 or 4 different kibbles a year.
> 
> ...


As mentioned earlier rotating through 3 different brands of kibble will give you a very good variety and a more complete balance. Just make sure you don't change the bags every type a bag runs out. You may want to go maybe 2 or 3 bags then switch to the next one. This shouldn't prevent you from adding cottage cheese, yogurt or anything else you want to add to their diet.


----------



## Esperanita (Jul 12, 2008)

I've seen in a couple of posts using the same food for a bag - what size bag are most of you referring to? I am feeding Cuba Solid Gold puppy and he seems to like it. I had a 4.5 lb bag and now he is at the end of a 15 lb bag. I was going to try Wee Bits next. I was thinking of feeding Evo but saw the warnings about giving a high protein food to a puppy. Thanks for the info from the Evo call. I might try giving him a little of the same I have and see how he likes it.


----------



## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I've never even heard of Taste of the wild or Innova Evo. Where do you goo to find them?

Sheri/Tucker


----------



## Esperanita (Jul 12, 2008)

Holistic pet food stores typically carry them. They usually have samples so you can see if your Hav likes it before investing in a full bag. Some of them also have pretty good return policies although that may in part depend on the return policy for the company. The told me that I could not take back an open bag of Solid Gold because the Solid Gold folks believed you should try a sample before buying a big bag. They did say I could return in Innova/Evo products if Cuba stopped eating it midway through.

You might try the website. It should have a store locater.


----------



## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

We have a specialty pet supply store, some of their stuff is expensive but they carry all of the stuff I've heard people on here talk about. They give me samples of everything! 

I buy 5 pound bags of food and they last for a while. I didn't know Evo had a high protein for puppies but my vet recommended it so I tried it.


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Esperanita said:


> I've seen in a couple of posts using the same food for a bag - what size bag are most of you referring to? I am feeding Cuba Solid Gold puppy and he seems to like it. I had a 4.5 lb bag and now he is at the end of a 15 lb bag. I was going to try Wee Bits next. I was thinking of feeding Evo but saw the warnings about giving a high protein food to a puppy. Thanks for the info from the Evo call. I might try giving him a little of the same I have and see how he likes it.


Esperanita
I usually buy the smallest bag I can get, Evo is 6.6#.

That way, it's fresher and I can change it up later if I so choose without feeling like we have weeks and weeks to go to finish up a bag. I've heard it mentioned that people sometimes buy a larger bag and freeze part of it to keep it fresher. Some Havs will boycott "old" kibble!

One reason why I like Natura products so much is because of their track record. They've never been named in a recall. Also, they add probiotics to their kibble which helps with digestion and much more. One of the probiotics, acidophilus, is said to be like a secondary immune system:

http://www.immunesupport.com/93sum009.htm

I've recently discovered that adding acidophilus to Saydee's food has reduced her tear stains dramatically. :biggrin1:

There's quite a few premium kibbles that are grain-free, and it's just a matter of what works best for your pup. After really putting a lot of time and energy in to research, here's a few of my persoanl faves: Evo Red Meat or Chicken, Wellness Core, Taste of the Wild, and Orijen Fish. You can probably find something you *don't* like about any kibble, so that's why rotating is such a great plan.


----------



## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

I get all of my "fancy" good dog foods at my local "feed" store. I couldn't believe they carried all of this, and it was sooo much cheaper than what I was paying at the holistic pet store in Minneapolis (plus I didn't have to drive an hour each way to get it!) I happened to go in to the Centrasota feed store to buy chicken food and wandered through the dog aisle and they have everything!!!!! Awesome! So, I recommend checking your local feed store, you may be surprised. 
Also, Innova Evo small bites chicken, is the first dry food I haven't had to doctor up for Posh to eat, although I mix in Merrick canned varieties. Posh was sooo picky and wouldn't eat her dry food until this (I had tried Nature's Variety Instinct, and Fromm's previously) EVO! I am wondering if rotating the Merrick will keep her healthy. Since I did have a dog that I swear I poisoned with the food I had fed her (Nutra Ultra) for years, and thought was a high quality kibble, I am soooo crazy dog lady about this.
what do you all think?


----------



## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Right now I'm mixing the Evo chicken with the Evo red meat and Scooter likes it. We put a little cottage cheese in it too. I used the chicken as treats to train him with for a day or two before mixing it into his food and he loved it!


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Posh's Mom said:


> Also, Innova Evo small bites chicken, is the first dry food I haven't had to doctor up for Posh to eat, although I mix in Merrick canned varieties... Since I did have a dog that I swear I poisoned with the food I had fed her (Nutra Ultra) for years, and thought was a high quality kibble, I am soooo crazy dog lady about this.
> what do you all think?


Hey Amy
Which Merrick canned does Posh like? I tried some of the grain-free (beef I think?) and Saydee turned up her little snoot and only ate about half the bowl which is rare indeed.

I think Nutro killed my maltese Zoe, too. I have no proof of course, but her sudden death made me a crazy dog lady too... at least when it comes to my doggie diet.


----------



## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Maya and Posh's mom, what do you think is wrong with Nutro Ultra? (Gulp...)
Sheri


----------



## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Sheri,
My border collie became very lethargic and eventually catatonic. I took her into the vet and her liver enzymes were off the chart and she was going into heart failure. We had both dogs, we had a dane at that time too, tested for high liver enzymes. Actually the whole family too...humans passed, dane did not, although his levels were not so high. The reason why I think it was the food vs. something else they had gotten into was because they were NEVER allowed outside unless I was out with them. We had a scare years ago where our border collie was stolen and so we were very careful with always being with them outside. This is still the case with miss posh, as she is only out with me. I just really felt in my gut that it had had had to be their food. I immediately switched and they both seemed so much better. Their skin and coats and eyes became glossy and clear. I know now what a crappy food this is and unfortunately for my border it was too late.
Since her death I've done a lot research on foods, and have unfortunately found many many cases way too similar to hers.
Here is a long consumer report on Nutro-http://www.consumeraffairs.com:80/pets/nutro.html
And here is a sad sad case that is so close to my exact story that it just makes my husband and I sick.


> "I've used NUTRO for years and never had any problems," she told us. "But my 10-year-old border collie, Boo, became sick six weeks ago. He was lethargic, lost weight, and when evaluated by a veterinarian, his liver enzymes were critical. They were elevated&#8230;off the chart. My vet said we've got to do something.
> 
> "She put him on antibiotics and a strong amino acid, but he continued to deteriorate."
> 
> ...


If you are feeding your sweetie Nutro, please switch immediately! There are many many good threads on here about kibble ideas for your fur face.


----------



## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks, Amy and all. I'll start the hunt for the Evo and Taste of the Wild mentioned earlier. I've already located two stores here that might carry them. The local Feed store here is one, (but, they also carry the Nutro Ultra...) Are there others to try that are reputed to be good? And, how can one tell, other than by finding out bad reports, like about Nutro? What if the Evo or Taste of the Wild turn out to be bad, too? Shouldn't the Vets be up to date on this very important topic?

Sigh...

Sheri and Tucker


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Sheri

My two 9-year-old maltese dogs were on different diets because one was diabetic. Millie, the diabetic was on Science Diet (we could do a whole new thread on that!!!) and my other pup Zoe was on Nutro for the last year of her life. She was always a healthy, robust dog and never had any health problems, except a bum knee. It was always her sister we were worried about, and always assumed she would be the first to go.

Suddenly, on New Year's Day 2008, Zoe would not stand up or walk around. I pulled back her lips to look at her gums and tongue and was absolutely stunned to see NOTHING BUT WHITE. She looked completely drained of blood.

We rushed her to emergency where she was diagnose with _hemolytic anemia_ and proceeded to have several blood transfusions. Hemolytic anemia is when your own body's immune system perceives your red blood cells as the enemy and destroys them.

The vet was perplexed because she fully expected Zoe had eaten some kind of poison. She told me that normally they see this kind of sudden reaction in animals that have ingested toxins. We knew this was just not possible because she was an indoor companion dog that had only been out in our fully fenced backyard. There was no place she could have come across anything poisonous. Our other dog wasn't sick... we even went so far as to scour the grass...

Zoe finally came home after six days of intense blood transfusions and horrible near death moments. We were desperate to keep her alive, and just wanted to bring her back home. She was put on a high doses of prednisone as well as a second very heavy drug (can't remember the name but I know I had to wear gloves to administer it!)

Slowly she started to feel better, and we truly thought we were out of the woods. The vet still had no explanation, and we just wanted to move on.

Less than 8 weeks later, Zoe went into shock overnight while in her crate, and by the time we found her and took her in, the vet said she was too weak for transfusion and that the only humane thing to do at that point was put her down. She was limp and almost nonresponsive. It was absolute hell on all of us, and one of the most painful decisions I've ever made in my life.

Needless to say, there was NEVER any medical reason for Zoe to have hemolytic anemia. The fact that she got this bizarre disease AGAIN less than 8 weeks after the first time was just too much of a coincidence. It made me question the food we were feeding her. I did more research online and came upon countless articles and testimonials similar to the one Amy just posted. Terrible, terrible stories of heartache caused by a pet food company. I have no doubt in my mind that Nutro killed my Zoe.

Please, anybody reading this - don't feed your beloved pet Nutro OR Science Diet. There's just too much evidence. Trust me when I say these are pet foods that are not manufactured with our pet's best interest in mind.


----------



## Esperanita (Jul 12, 2008)

You can go to http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/ and checkout the different foods. Cuba's breeder was feeding him Pro Plan. I didn't like the idea of a mainstream food like that (without doing any research) and decided to try Nutro Ultra after speaking to a worker at the pet store. After I discovered this thread I did some research and discovered the Solid Gold line of food. Cuba seems to like the puppy food, but for variety, I plan to switch him to Wee Bits and then probably on of the Evos.


----------



## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Hi Sheri, I love your avatar of Tucker! He looks like a very sweet puffball and reminds me of my Lincoln 

I am also very concerned about problems with the foods we are feeding our dogs. Nothing is guaranteed, but I stick with high-quality kibbles from US based companies who hopefully do not get any of their ingredients from China (after last year's melamine poisoning, I am wary). I think _Wellness, Solid Gold, Merrick,_ and _Fromm's_ are all good brands and would be good places to start -they have several flavors/varieties of kibbles to choose from.

Evo is a high-protein kibble which may or may not work well for your dog - it was too rich for mine and gave them consistently runny stools. But many people swear by it. For any food, you just have to try it and see how it agrees with Tucker. Good luck!


----------



## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Jane, Your Lincoln and my Tucker do look alot alike! How often do you bath him? I have found Tucker looks best if I bath him about every two weeks. He sure doesn't like the dryer, though. 

Thanks for the tips about the Evo causing your guys some loose stools. That is an area that occasionally shows up with Tucker that I want to avoid. Takes too long to bath again!

Sheri


----------



## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Keep in mind that generally it's not the high protein that causes loose stools. It's more likely that it's something else in the ingredients or that too much is being fed. You need far less of Evo than you do of say some other cheaper kibble like Nutro, etc. Could also be the vegetables in the food.

Also if your dog is really not all that active, such a high protein diet may not be necessary. You may be better off with one with a protein level in the 30's.


----------



## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

I took my dogs off of EVO because of loose stools. We use the regular Innova small bites and they do very well on that.


----------



## Perugina (May 28, 2008)

We weaned Sophie from Pedigree puppy chow to Innova puppy chow. You gradually change the percentage mix until you are %100 new food. This will help their digestive system get used it more easily. She did very well on it, we have now transitioned her to Innova Small Bites and will see how that goes.


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Saydee had no problems with loose stool and transitioned well to Evo. Take it slow if you have any concerns. And what Daniel says about quantity fed is really important. While higher quality dog foods cost more, the amount needed to feed is usually much less! And you have less poop to pick up because your dog is USING the nutrients provided, rather than just passing filler.

My son has a black lab and was feeding her Iams (or Eukanuba, I'm not sure) up until a few months ago. He calculated that he actually pays almost the same amount per serving now that his dog eats on Innova. And he feels alot better about feeding it to her!


----------



## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Sheri said:


> Jane, Your Lincoln and my Tucker do look alot alike! How often do you bath him? I have found Tucker looks best if I bath him about every two weeks. He sure doesn't like the dryer, though.


Hi Sheri,

I bathe both my boys every 3 weeks. I aim for 2, but usually I'm too busy. It is a big production around here...bath day...

There's nothing like hugging a Hav with a profuse coat, eh? :biggrin1:


----------



## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

I find that finally on EVO Posh has nice firm stools...and less poopy butt in general. When I was feeding her Fromm's/Nature's Variety mix she had the runs more often. So, really, ultimately you need to find what works for you and your dog and Jane has mentioned some very high quality foods. I think that's what is most important, that if you're not making your pup's food you know where it comes from and what's in it. I still think about things like antibiotics fed to the chickens that are used in the EVO and merrick foods, but I'm trying to stay sane and not go completely off the dog food deep end.


----------



## SaydeeMomma (Sep 9, 2008)

Posh's Mom said:


> I find that finally on EVO Posh has nice firm stools...and less poopy butt in general. When I was feeding her Fromm's/Nature's Variety mix she had the runs more often. So, really, ultimately you need to find what works for you and your dog and Jane has mentioned some very high quality foods. I think that's what is most important, that if you're not making your pup's food you know where it comes from and what's in it. I still think about things like antibiotics fed to the chickens that are used in the EVO and merrick foods, but I'm trying to stay sane and not go completely off the dog food deep end.


"Dog food deep end"! Your so right Amy. I think it would be impossible to not find something wrong with any dog food. After tons of research, I've concluded that it's more of a quest to find a dog food with the least amount things wrong with it!

I think most of the premium names mentioned on dogfoodanalysis are all good choices and it's just a matter of finding the one (even two or three!) that works best for your Hav.

Risks like chicken antibiotics, ethoxyquin in fish, dog food recalls, etc. are the reason why I really believe firmly in rotating my doggy's diet so they never get too much (or too little) of one thing.

My method is to rotate high quality kibble maybe 3 times a year, in hopes of creating a "happy medium". Also, I'm changing up meat sources in both the canned and NV medallions with each new bag/can. At this point I serve one meal a day of kibble/canned/water mix, and the second meal is raw. While this method may not work for some dogs, it works really well for us, and I think this not only helps accomplish the goal I mentioned above, but also keeps the food bowl interesting for Saydee. She never knows what to expect.


----------

