# Littermates?



## O'Bluff (Jan 29, 2011)

I read in a puppy book recently that it is not a good idea to get two littermates because they will "live for each other" not for their humans. Any comments?

And yes, this question is MHS related!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

People say that but I've done it a few times and it was always wonderful for them and for me. I wouldn't hesitate for an instant doing it again. I think only if people are afraid there's not enough love to go around to canine loved ones and human family, do they worry. My experience has been the exact opposite . . . each time. They adored each other and they adored me.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

We have a few folks that have litter mates on our forum I bet they will step in and write.
When we were out looking for a puppy we found a litter and wanted two the breeder said she never sells two puppy's together. I think their were a lot of reasons she felt that way. We went with a Havanese instead of the other breed and brought home one puppy.I waited a few months and got another Havanese. I have mixed feelings I think it would have been better to wait. It reminds me of having the second child who does not get the same attention of the first. And I can't believe how much more work it is with two house training. The way they play is very ruff it reminds be of dog fighting one will try to be the alpha and it goes on and on . I can not play with the new puppy with out a fight like over a toy. I miss the one on one I was able to have before two. The youngest can only get my full attention if I separate them.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

If you have not trained a puppy before , it can be a lot of work and might not be advisable. Here's a letter. 

Littermates
On September 13th, 2008 Dr. Jennifer Messer says:
So far as I am aware, there is no solid published data on the issue of problems in rearing littermates. There is, however, a fair amount of anectodal evidence that unless the owner is prepared to spend substantial amounts of time with the pups separately - so they bond more with the owner than with each other - that the puppies are at increased risk of developing social problems.
I'm not convinced that this is any greater a problem with littermates than it would be with any two puppies that who are close in age, get along, and are being reared together. When two puppies are reared together there is a tendency for the owner to rely on the puppies having eachother as social company. This not only puts the puppies at greater risk of bonding more strongly to eachother than to the owner - ultimately giving the owner less control over the dogs in general - but also puts the pups at greater risk of decreased overall socialization to both other dogs and to humans.
Regarding the instances you have cited, and the question of whether raising littermates is a dangerous venture, there are some potential confounders to keep in mind: firstly, dog aggression fatalities much more commonly involve multiple dogs than a single dog - the "pack effect". So any pair of dogs is more likely to be involved in a serious aggression instance than a single dog - all other factors being equal - regardless of whether they are littermates or were reared together in the same home. Secondly, there may well be a reporting bias towards aggression cases involving littermates... in the same way that there are probably reporting biases involving certain breeds.
I wish I could point you in the direction of more solid data ... but I'm not aware of any."


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

This is so opposite of what I experienced over and over again in my life. It's interesting because when I went into it each time, I had no expectations, positive or negative. I just assumed it would work if we made it work . . . and it always did. Not once did they become so attached to each other than I was odd man out. They did love each other, to be sure, but they loved me with equal fervor. As far as the potty training went, I found it easier because the minute one got it, the other followed.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I guess Geri, there are always exceptions. I wouldn't have wanted to try it with my first dog venture though. But geeze Geri, what dog couldn't bond with someone like you. ?


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

If it had happened once, I might say it was a fluke, but it was three different times . . . always good. Funny Dave, my girlfriend used to call me the Pied Piper of the canine kingdom. I think they know when they're loved.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

pjewel said:


> If it had happened once, I might say it was a fluke, but it was three different times . . . always good. Funny Dave, my girlfriend used to call me the Pied Piper of the canine kingdom. I think they know when they're loved.


You are a jewel Geri, you have a gift.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Oh by the way, Geri, what does the p in pjewel stand for, ... precious?ound:


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## Rita Nelson (Jul 13, 2009)

I have no experience in this area, but my daughter wanted to get 2 litter mates. She talked with a trainer before hand and he strongly discouraged her from doing so for the reasons mentioned by Dr. Messer.


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## LuckyOne (Sep 3, 2009)

pjewel said:


> People say that but I've done it a few times and it was always wonderful for them and for me. I wouldn't hesitate for an instant doing it again. I think only if people are afraid there's not enough love to go around to canine loved ones and human family, do they worry. My experience has been the exact opposite . . . each time. They adored each other and they adored me.


Well said. My experience with littermates (twice) has been wonderful. The pups play with each other but when we are in the room it's all about us. Einstein is most attached to me and Watson is most attached to my oldest son but they both choose to be with any human in the family and prefer us over each other if that's possible. I can't imagine anything else!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

It sort of reminds me of when "the experts" in any field review a product. I'm almost never interested in the professional reviews. I want to read the reviews of the people who have bought and used the product. They usually have the answers I'm looking for.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The biggest problem I see with two at the same time (from what I've seen on this forum) is that it increases the problems with potty training exponentially. The people who have the MOST trouble seem to be the ones with multiple puppies!

Clearly it CAN work, especially with "soft" people-oriented dogs like Havs... lots of people here have done it. But I'd rather waith long enough between that the first puppy is really, REALLY solid inall his training, so I can devote the same amount of energy to the next puppy. I figure when Kodi is 4 or 5 we'll be ready.:biggrin1:


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## O'Bluff (Jan 29, 2011)

Thanks for all the feedback.

Dave T. I do have experience training dogs (and horses too), including a Bull Terrier. I have never tried two littermates though. Obviously differing opinions here. I worked with a Quality Engineer in Tucson, AZ who had two wonderful littermates, Golden Retrievers, who were absolutely fabulous! She lost both in 2010. She now has two more - not littermates. I'll admitt she is a gifted dog trainer (and great Quality Engineer as well).

I don't think I'll chance it though. I'm not terribly worried about starting a wild pack of killer Havanese, but having never owned a Havanese, I think I'll start with one and add as I go along! 

I really appreciate all the feedback!

Two weeks from today - I can hardly wait!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

O'Bluff said:


> I'm not terribly worried about starting a wild pack of killer Havanese,


ound:ound:ound:ound:

We'll be waiting with you! Make sure to charge that camera battery!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

O'Bluff said:


> Thanks for all the feedback.
> 
> Dave T. I do have experience training dogs (and horses too), including a Bull Terrier. I have never tried two littermates though. Obviously differing opinions here. I worked with a Quality Engineer in Tucson, AZ who had two wonderful littermates, Golden Retrievers, who were absolutely fabulous! She lost both in 2010. She now has two more - not littermates. I'll admitt she is a gifted dog trainer (and great Quality Engineer as well).
> 
> ...


Yeah I hear you. Obviously it's done successfully all the time, I just wouldn't recommend it for a first time dog owner.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

O'Bluff said:


> Thanks for all the feedback.
> 
> Dave T. I do have experience training dogs (and horses too), including a Bull Terrier. I have never tried two littermates though. Obviously differing opinions here. I worked with a Quality Engineer in Tucson, AZ who had two wonderful littermates, Golden Retrievers, who were absolutely fabulous! She lost both in 2010. She now has two more - not littermates. I'll admitt she is a gifted dog trainer (and great Quality Engineer as well).
> 
> ...


ROFLMAO!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

O'Bluff said:


> Thanks for all the feedback.
> 
> Dave T. I do have experience training dogs (and horses too), including a Bull Terrier. I have never tried two littermates though. Obviously differing opinions here. I worked with a Quality Engineer in Tucson, AZ who had two wonderful littermates, Golden Retrievers, who were absolutely fabulous! She lost both in 2010. She now has two more - not littermates. I'll admitt she is a gifted dog trainer (and great Quality Engineer as well).
> 
> ...


SOOOOOOOOO.... Does that mean there is one now available?? :eyebrows::dance:


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## LilyMyLove (Jul 11, 2009)

My experiences with littermates:

1) My grandfather had two collies from the same litter, they fought constantly to the point they were hurting one another, one of them ended up living with us and was our dog for years and couldnt have been a sweeter dog.

2) Know someone well with ****zu littermates. They are super tuned into one another, even eating each others poop when they are not watched like a hawk so they always have to be taken out on leash at night. The dont seem particularly into people. 

Just my .02.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LilyMyLove said:


> My experiences with littermates:
> 
> 1) My grandfather had two collies from the same litter, they fought constantly to the point they were hurting one another, one of them ended up living with us and was our dog for years and couldnt have been a sweeter dog.
> 
> ...


I think there are a lot of Tzus who aren't really into people though, so I'm not sure it was because they had a sibling.


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## LilyMyLove (Jul 11, 2009)

I didnt mean to imply it was because they were littermates-I just reread what I wrote and realized it comes off that way, sorry Im tired. I was going to say not all dogs are as into their humans as Havs. 

I would consider getting littermates but probably mix the sexes. I think its even better to get one and then another a year later.


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## Grimnel (Sep 12, 2010)

We have three from the same litter, two boys and a girl and so far no problems, they are good with other dogs and adore anyone that walks through the door, they have time on their own and with each other and interact very well with humans, I would say it's down to the individual dog and also how the human works with them, it's very important to get them used to a variety of situations individually. Good luck with what you decide.


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