# EVO Question



## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

Bella is almost 2 years and about 8 lbs. Through a series of events, she now gets half Innova and half EVO in her bowl. But I've found that she picks out the EVO and only eats that. Eventually she'll eat some of the Innova but not much.

My question: Is it safe for her to get only EVO Red Meat small bites? She's not a big eater and the normal amount for her size is 1/2 cup so that would work well for her. We once had a dog with kidney problems and I want to avoid any problems like that (or any other) with Bella.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Mine get EVO Red meat small bites and the chicken. I buy a bag of each and mix it. I also add chicken or turkey to it, not much but enough to make them eat. They get 1/4 cup in the a.m. and 1/4 in the p.m.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Have you tried a good amount of excercise before you feed them to help them be hungry? Also, cutting out treats helps with their appetites.


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

They don't get many treats. At the most, maybe 1 teaspoon of chicken breast a day. And we walk 20-30 min. in the morning 5 or 6 days a week. They aren't skinny or else I'd worry about them not eating. My biggest concern is the Red Meat small bites--can the concentration of meat hurt their kidneys or something else.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Nancy I hear your concern. Mine free feed of Evo Small bites chicken. I'm wondering if high amounts of protein can harm an otherwise healthy dog? That's what they would eat in the wild? IDK
Carole


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

You're right about what they'd eat in the wild. But in the back of my mind is the phrase, "survival of the fittest" and what if these two fur balls we have aren't the fittest. Maybe small dogs/Havanese have a weakness in certain areas like this which cause them harm. 

That's why I mixed the Innova and EVO (plus I had a big bag when I got the Red Meat and didn't want to throw it out!).

I know things have improved so much over the years but sometimes I long for the simple days when you opened a bag of Purina Dog Chow and grabbed a handful for the bowl!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

nancyf said:


> They don't get many treats. At the most, maybe 1 teaspoon of chicken breast a day. And we walk 20-30 min. in the morning 5 or 6 days a week. They aren't skinny or else I'd worry about them not eating. My biggest concern is the Red Meat small bites--can the concentration of meat hurt their kidneys or something else.


Nancy ,as far as kibble is concerned , that is one of the best. The biggest issue with kibble is that it should be moistened. Lack of water in kibble is one of the leading causes of kidney problems. Dogs don't instinctively know enough to drink when they eat kibble. Most vets should not recommend kibble for cats. The dryness doesn't allow waste materials to flush properly.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Know need to worry about the high protein causing kidney problems. Years ago it might have been true due to the source of the protein. But with EVO the protein source is from meat and therefore easy for the kidney's to handle. If you go to the Orijen website there's a white paper you can read on the myths of high protein.

Keep in mind not all kibble should be moistened. Some may actually cause bloating in the stomach. You have to read the ingredients. Evo would be find moistened but making sure your dog drinks plenty of fresh water is just as good. Unfortunately many dogs don't drink enough water.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I am using both of the EVO's now with my girls. We may have to go to just the red meat as I am almost sure one of Smarty's skin problems is Chicken! She has started eating the hair on her right leg again. Smarty & Galen love it.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

As most of you, I made myself crazy with the different brands of dog food. After the pet food scare, I finally switched and stayed with the EVO. My dogs no longer have runny or mucousy stools, and they only go once or twice a day, especially if we are on a walk. Seems they just have to poop when we go for a walk. I guess it's the exercise.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

DanielBMe said:


> Know need to worry about the high protein causing kidney problems. Years ago it might have been true due to the source of the protein. But with EVO the protein source is from meat and therefore easy for the kidney's to handle. If you go to the Orijen website there's a white paper you can read on the myths of high protein.
> 
> Keep in mind not all kibble should be moistened. Some may actually cause bloating in the stomach. You have to read the ingredients. Evo would be find moistened but making sure your dog drinks plenty of fresh water is just as good. Unfortunately many dogs don't drink enough water.


How do you get a dog to drink enough water, and how do you know which kiblle should not be watered?


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

mellowbo said:


> Nancy I hear your concern. Mine free feed of Evo Small bites chicken. I'm wondering if high amounts of protein can harm an otherwise healthy dog? That's what they would eat in the wild? IDK
> Carole


Yeah, but they also wouldn't be a Hav, or have the lifestyle most Havs have in the wild.
Plus in the wild they would be obsessed over grooming products or finding a good groomer ...etc, etc,:wink:


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

davetgabby said:


> Nancy ,as far as kibble is concerned , that is one of the best. The biggest issue with kibble is that it should be moistened. Lack of water in kibble is one of the leading causes of kidney problems. Dogs don't instinctively know enough to drink when they eat kibble. Most vets should not recommend kibble for cats. The dryness doesn't allow waste materials to flush properly.


Wow, I never knew that. Bella goes through tons of water since we began the EVO. It's been an obvious change. I hate to moisten it because I'll end up throwing lots away at the end of the day--unless I gave 1/2 the usual amount and moistened it. Thanks for the great information!


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

Sam375 said:


> Yeah, but they also wouldn't be a Hav, or have the lifestyle most Havs have in the wild.
> Plus in the wild they would be obsessed over grooming products or finding a good groomer ...etc, etc,:wink:


A "Hav in the wild"--now that's a mind picture!


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

irnfit said:


> As most of you, I made myself crazy with the different brands of dog food. After the pet food scare, I finally switched and stayed with the EVO. My dogs no longer have runny or mucousy stools, and they only go once or twice a day, especially if we are on a walk. Seems they just have to poop when we go for a walk. I guess it's the exercise.


I feel your pain, Harry having his problems with pudding pies, mucous and blood.
Right now I am doing core fish and nat bala duck both grain free.

Exercise and or excitement get the bowels movin thats for sure!


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

nancyf said:


> Wow, I never knew that. Bella goes through tons of water since we began the EVO. It's been an obvious change. I hate to moisten it because I'll end up throwing lots away at the end of the day--unless I gave 1/2 the usual amount and moistened it. Thanks for the great information!


Maybe try a tablespoon at a time, little here and there, not a lot?


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## Thumbelleina (Apr 2, 2009)

hmm I didn't know about the moisture thing, but I do give Buster Orijen and I was worried about the high protein content, but my vet said not to worry, so I don't think you have to be concerned with EVO


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

Okay, now I'm more confused than before. Should I moisten the EVO, or should I just give Innova--dry or moistened? Or should I switch again to another food. Will Bella & Dani get kidney problem from dry food or will they get bloated from moistened food. 

Since eating the EVO dry, Bella's stools have been very hard and dry. Is that a sign of not enough water?

I need more input, please.:help:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

nancyf said:


> Okay, now I'm more confused than before. Should I moisten the EVO, or should I just give Innova--dry or moistened? Or should I switch again to another food. Will Bella & Dani get kidney problem from dry food or will they get bloated from moistened food.
> 
> Since eating the EVO dry, Bella's stools have been very hard and dry. Is that a sign of not enough water?
> 
> I need more input, please.:help:


Hi Nancy , this is from Sabine.
Canned foods vs. dry foods
Dry foods are very concentrated, rich in mineral content, highly processed, and have an
unnaturally low moisture content. The digestive process requires moisture on many different
levels, for example protein is processed in the liver and any waste materials are filtered and
excreted by the kidneys. High quality protein does not generate large amounts of waste that need
to be removed from the body, but poor quality protein (which is difficult to digest) does, and thus
puts stress on the kidneys.
The liver needs water to process protein and as a medium to carry waste products to the kidneys,
where they are filtered out and most of the water is reabsorbed. The more protein in the diet (as
for example in the "new generation" high-protein dry foods), the more water is required, and the
less concentrated the waste products in the primary filtrate, the easier it is for the kidneys to do
their filtering work.
Dogs who eat mostly canned food or a home prepared diet automatically take in more moisture
than dogs eating kibble, so they do not need to compensate as much by drinking. Contrary to
what many people think and pet food companies claim, dogs (and cats even moreso) do not
instinctively know how much extra water they have to drink to make up for what is lacking in dry
food.
A greater incidence of bladder diseases and stones/crystals in pets since dry food has become
the prevalent method of feeding is one result. An increasing number of American Veterinary
Medical Association members, including board-certified veterinary nutritionists, are now strongly
recommending the feeding of canned food instead of dry kibble to cats, but the issue is sadly still
widely ignored in dogs.
For all the above reasons, if you do choose to continue feeding dry food, I highly recommend
adding lukewarm or room-temperature water (never hot or cold) to the dry food at a ratio of 1/2 to
1 cup of water per cup of food.
There is no need to soak the kibble, but if your dog prefers a softer texture you may let it sit for 5-
10 minutes to rehydrate. Do not let moistened food sit for extended periods of time though, since
bacteria will grow more rapidly and it may turn sour and spoil. Discard uneaten leftovers.
Scheduled meals are recommended instead of free-feeding.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Any kibble that uses citric acid as a preservative should not be premoistened. This is more of a factor with possible bloat in bigger dogs though. Not sure about Havs.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

DanielBMe said:


> Any kibble that uses citric acid as a preservative should not be premoistened. This is more of a factor with possible bloat in bigger dogs though. Not sure about Havs.


Thanks for bringing that question up. I contacted Sabine and here is her response. Hi Dave,

In my opinion and experience it is NOT a problem to moisten dry food preserved with citric acid. The claim comes from a statistic based on a survey of bloat-prone dogs, and it's about the equivalent of saying that dogs shouldn't eat chicken just because some dogs are allergic to it.

I'm glad Molly is enjoying her food!

Sabine


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Sam375 said:


> How do you get a dog to drink enough water, and how do you know which kiblle should not be watered?


I do not know about your pups, but Dexter loves ice cubes! Moisture counts!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Hi Nancy,

What have you tried since we posted? 

I wouldn't worry about moistening kibble. Either way, it's going to swell in the stomach, but the bit of water added to it can make it smell better and be more appetizing for a fussy dog. That's all it is.  

The protein is an issue only if there is already a kidney problem. It will NOT cause kidney or liver dysfunction because the high-quality kibble doesn't use as much bone as it used to. A high ash content (cooked down bones) is what ups the risk for kidney/liver problems, so I don't worry about it when using Evo, Orijen, Acana,, etc.... the good kibble.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Here is the ocean core Harry is on, could possibly be an option instead of the EVO, any thoughts?

Whitefish, Whitefish Meal, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Potatoes, Dried Ground Potato, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Pea Fiber, Tomato Pomace, Natural Fish Flavor, Flaxseed, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Kale, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins & Minerals, Choline Chloride, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Products, Rosemary Extract.

This is a naturally preserved product.

Guaranteed Analysis 
Crude Protein min. 34% 
Crude Fat min. 14% 
Crude Fiber max. 7% 
Moisture max. 10% 
Calcium max. 2.1% 
Phosphorus max. 1.5% 
Vitamin E min. 500 IU/kg 
Omega 6 Fatty Acids* min. 2.00% 
Omega 3 Fatty Acids* min. 0.80% 
Glucosamine Hydrochloride* min. 250 mg/kg 
Chondroitin Sulfate* min. 200 mg/kg 
Total Micro-organisms* min. 80,000,000 CFU/lb


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks for asking, Marj! Dani (8) has gotten a stomach ache when I moisten it because she eats everything in the bowl at once. I gave her only 1/2 today and then held her after she ate because then she burps and is fine. (like a baby!) 

Bella, who is the real picky eater, has eaten all her food every morning since I began to moisten it but this morning she threw it up. She, also, only had 1/2 of her food. 

Our two just can't handle a lot of food at once. It was nice for me to have them eat and be done with it instead of hoping they would eat their food through the day.

That's why I liked the EVO--they didn't have to eat much to get what they needed. But Dani (8) had loose stools on EVO and Innova. She's on Natural Balance and so far she's done fine.

I fret about their food and what picky eaters they are so we went to the vet and both had gained weight! They must be sneaking snacks from the pantry when I'm not looking.

I'd like to use EVO for Bella since she wouldn't have to eat that much to get what she needs but her stools were very hard and dry from the EVO. That's what started the concern.


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

Here is an update on our kibble problem. I have Dani and Bella on Natural Balance now. And both are on the regular formula--not the duck and potato. Surprisingly, they like the food, they have more energy (especially noticeable in Dani who is 8), and their stools are perfect. Bella isn't drinking water like crazy any more. I am giving them dry kibble. So that's the latest. Thanks for all your information! It was appreciated.


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