# Any breeders in Michigan



## jolynn

or close by? Skiver's gonna need a friend


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## Laurief

You are ready for a new one ALREADY???!?!? That was fast! Sorry I am on the east coast but I am sure there are some here who can help.


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## jolynn

I'm just thinking ahead  I know that as playful as he is, he would be happy with a buddy someday. I'm thinking when he reaches around 10 months to 1 year. And since we have to wait....I thought I'd start looking!

Besides, his poor little piggy (stuffed) isn't much of a playmate! We have to throw him, he won't run on his own!


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## nojmanloo

I know these folks well. They are honest and I believe you would avoid the problems you have encountered in the past. Located in Lansing Michigan. Contact me if you want more information.

jon

www.havanesehouse.com


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## jolynn

Thanks! If I've learned one thing from this forum, it's that it never hurts to think ahead!


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## Kathy

This time please contact the HCA and local clubs. You want to deal with a breeder that does ALL the health testing, shows their dogs, and will be there for you in the future. I went to the web site of Havanese house as suggested to you by someone else and can't find info on testing, champions, memberships to clubs etc.


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## BeverlyA

Jolynn! I'm so excited to hear you've already got the "potato chip syndrom" lol! 
Yes, Skiver and your family would love having another one around to play with too!

Beverly


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## irnfit

Jolynn, you will not be sorry. The best thing I did was to get Shelby. Kodi loves her and gets sad when she decides to take a nap, because he still wants to play 

True, you have to go thru the potty thing again, but I think you are not as stressed as with the first one.

Happy hunting!


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## Rita

Yes. Now you know how to scrutinize everyone. They better watch out!!!!!!! Did you look at the HCA website. Click on local clubs. There is the Gateway Club and Lake Erie Club that may be close enough to begin your search. 

Also, email the HCA for the breeder list. See if their auto reply is working...

Good luck. You guys are making me envious.


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## JodiM

If you feel like making a drive, there is a good breeder outside of Chicago.


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## nojmanloo

Well the Havanese house,com uses Michigan State University Vet progrogram to check for eyes and patella. And they will gladly provide all documentation of health testing. They will meet with you and let you see their dogs and homes. At this time the do not show their dogs.


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## whitBmom

nojmanloo, I don't think anyone here is personally attacking you. You said *"I guess though I am unworthy of offering a suggestion and my experience with them is irrelavant. My Havanese dog Ceecee is not reallly worth mentioning because she came from them. And from this point forward I will refrain from participating because my dog did not come from a breeder that shows there dogs."*
It is important to understand that we are cautious buyers because the reality is that we DO NEED to be cautious. There are many so-called breeders that promise the sun, moon and stars and then when it comes to really living up to things they show their bi-polarness by avoiding to support and help the buyer when the breeder's negligence has caused all the problems in the first place. We love the Havanese breed, and we support those breeders that continue to strive to make the breed better. I am sorry you feel the way you do but you do have to understand the need to be particular in this instance.


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## Kathy

Nojmanloo,
The "breeder" you were referring too does not show their dogs to try and obtain a championship, but they do brag about the fact that their breeding dogs came from champions. Here is a quote from their web site: "All of our adults are Champion sired; AND Grand Sired."

In my opinion IF a breeder is breeding dogs, they should only be doing so to *improve* the breed, not just sell puppies. It is no longer enough to only CERF the breeding dogs. While I know that showing a dog can be political and frustrating at times, it is the only means we have to determine if an animal is worthy of being use for breeding. It isn't perfect, as I know many dogs that shouldn't have been in the ring in the first place, but it is what it is. I am not meaning to be insulting to you, so please forgive me if I have. I am only pointing out things I think all buyers should take into consideration. Breeders who don't health test, have no idea what they might be putting back into the gene pool for our breed, and that isn't making the breed better.


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## dboudreau

*Any Breeders in Michigan*

[My Havanese dog Ceecee is not reallly worth mentioning because she came from them. And from this point forward I will refrain from participating because my dog did not come from a breeder that shows there dogs.[/QUOTE]

Did I miss something. I didn't think it mattered where you got your dog. I thought this was a forum to share information. And learn more about our beloved breed. Any Havanese is worth mentioning in my opinion. Please continue to participate.


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## jolynn

I looked up that breeder in Michigan, and even tho they don't show their dogs, they sure do more testing than the breeder I used, who didn't health test his female, even tho he shows his dogs. THe Michigan breeder does way more, has a better contract and keeps in touch with the pups new forever homes, which is evident on the home page. I'd be much more likely to go with a breeder like that than this last one who had a bunch of champions.

Love, rather than money, makes a better motivation, and that's what I saw on this website. Different experience than the one I had.

Thanks for the conversation, tho, I think it does help everyone in the end. And thanks for the heads up on the Michigan breeders, and the advise on where to look for others


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## Rita

nojmanloo said:


> My Havanese dog Ceecee is not reallly worth mentioning because she came from them. And from this point forward I will refrain from participating because my dog did not come from a breeder that shows there dogs.


If you check out our pasts posts you will see that some people had dealings with fly-by-night breeders. That is why we are very adamant about asking all the questions. We all just need to remember that people all have different expectations for what they want in a breeder. I may love mine, you may love yours and someone else will hate them both because their personalities collide or they had miscommunication (This is separate from health testing. I am talking about the person who didn't tell the breeder they wanted a dog for their 8 year old to play dress up with and the dog doesn't have the personality for that, etc).

As far as the breeder you mentioned, I belived they are mentioned on the local clubs site. Also, they might not list all the health testing on their site. So, Jolynn can follow up on it. She knows the right questions to ask and where to look on the web to verify.

I hope you still participate. Not everyone here has show dogs, many are just pets. We all love the Havanese no matter what she/he does. Please don't take it personal.............

LOL


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## irnfit

Since we are still venting on the breeders, here's an incident with one. I met her at a local dog show and she had beautiful little b/w puppies, which is what I was looking for. She said they were not for sale "yet" because she would be showing them first, and then deciding which ones she would be selling. We kept in touch via email for months, while she was showing these pups. In the interim, I found Shelby. About the same time, I heard from this breeder that her dog was due to have a litter early in 2007. 

Was she just stringing me along so she could up the ante? She apparently sold the other puppies. She asked me where I got my puppy, and I told her in NY state. She said she never heard of any breeders in NY state. Well, NY breeders are listed on club website. So, now I am glad I didn't go with this breeder, even though her dogs are being shown at Westminster.


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## Havtahava

irnfit, she was probably not stringing you along, but could have been trying to keep you informed - and weigh her own options.

I am planning a litter late in the year that I will probably keep for several months because there is something specific that I want to watch develop. I would not be able to see it at 10 weeks or even 12 weeks old, but it is very important to me. I may even go the route of the breeder you met and show them first to see if they hold up to my expectations.

On the flip side, I kept a beautiful girl from my last litter to show. Unfortunately, sometimes things change that won't allow you to keep showing them. She had one little change in her bite, but it was enough that I could not continue showing her, so I just offered her to a family that had met & adored her.

A breeder who is truly trying to better their breeding program just never knows how they will develop. Sometimes they get better, sometimes things go off from what we expected.


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## irnfit

Kim, thanks for the reply. I understand exactly what you have pointed out. My complaint is that as soon as she knew her bitch was pregnant, the pup I was waiting for was never mentioned again. I was disapointed, because I had been waiting over 6 months to find out about this puppy. So it was just a thought that since she had me, she could up the ante on a new puppy, instead of a dog that was almost a year old. Just my feelings on the mattter.


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## Havtahava

That's hard. It almost sounds like there was a lack of communication on her part. I have no idea who you are talking about (and I don't want to know), but it's a reminder for me to keep communication going with everyone who has inquired on a puppy. I try, but I'm always afraid that sometimes I let someone slip through the cracks. I find myself going back through emails and voicemails often to try to prevent that.

So, where do things stand for you now? Shelby is the one you got instead, right? How are things going?


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## irnfit

Yes, Shelby is the one we got instead. She is a terrific, feisty little girl and her and Kodi play all day. Right now, they are wrestling and growling, trying to see who is boss. They take turns mounting each other (Kodi is neutered), it is so funny. I got her from someone in NY that my husband found. I didn't have a real good feeling about them, but they are not bad people. They just are not concerned once they sell their dogs. I just got Shelby's pedigree, and she has some Starkette, Birch Creek, and Smallhaven dogs in her background. No champion lines though.

Kodi as our first - he is my sweetheart. However, I still keep in touch with his breeder. His sire is one of Cindy Lisai's dogs.

So everything worked out anyway. We love our babies no matter what!

I would love to tell you who the other breeder was, but don't want to post it.


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## irnfit

Kimberly,
When I was looking for my first Havanese, I saw puppies on your website. The only reason I didn't put you on my list is because you do not ship, and I couldn't get out to San Francisco. But I did look you up and loved your dogs and puppies.


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## Kathy

Thumperlove said:


> Personally, I don't mind doing some of the health testing myself. She does guarantee the health or any major medical problems in the first year in her contract. I feel comfortable with her.
> 
> Good luck!
> love,
> Kara


Kara,
I am glad you found your puppy. Everyone needs to find a breeder you like and feel you can work with and will be there for you even after a year of age if needed. I hope you asked what health testing was done on the mom and dad of your puppy. Health testing isn't done on the puppies, but rather, on the mom and dad so that breeders know what they are breeding and hopefully not passing on bad hips, heart problems, liver shunt, things like that.

Have you started thinking of names?


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## ama0722

There are a lot of health conscious havanese breeders which is absolutely amazing. I would be careful with thinking doing health testing yourself is a substitute for what knowledge a breeder can use when picking a dam and a sire that have had health testing. Also take into consideration that the first year of a puppy's life isn't much of a health guarantee as a lot of breeders offer. I have no idea about this breeder personally but I would just say put in all the research you can.

I had a good friend who purcahsed a yorkshire from a very reputable breeder. The dog came with a year guarantee. That didnt help when at 18 months the dog was diagnosed with a liver shunt. Even at that point the breeder offered to replace her puppy. But didn't offer to help reimburse her for the 2 surgeries the pup had at MSU for a total of $5700.

Just a thought,
Amanda


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## Havtahava

Breeders can't _predict _anything, but we can sure do a lot to rule out the most common problems. The Havanese Club of America recommends four specific tests for us to do for a reason. Because of that, I feel *those four tests are a minimum requirement* and I'd recommend you turn and walk away from any breeder who isn't willing to meet that basic level of service in providing a puppy.

I'm not referring to any specific breeders because this is the same advice I give to anyone talks about getting a new Hav puppy.


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## Tom King

I agree on the health testing too. Please don't do the breed a disservice by supporting breeders who don't breed to better the breed. Responsible breeders not only do the recommended tests but others as well. Responsible breeders don't breed dogs with CD because it has been proven that the majority of health problems come from dogs with CD. Anyone not following this protocol is an IRRESPONSIBLE breeder. Irresponsible breeders breed dogs with CD and continue to breed dogs who have produced problems.

Champions in the background mean nothing. Several people who have had their hands on enough dogs to know-including Pam and me and a number of judges that know enough to tell-will tell you that roughly a third of all Champions in the breed have CD. Even most puppymills put their dogs in the ring and have champions in the background. 

I know nothing of the breeder in question either-just a comment in general.

Of course there is always some chance of problems. The idea is to reduce the chances of health problems as much as possible. A thirty percent chance of having a problem is a LOT worse than a chance approaching zero percent.


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## Havtahava

Not Tom, but yes CD=chondrodysplasia.


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## whitBmom

I just thought I would through this question out there: If the breeder has supplied you with the results of genetic testing, how would someone make heads or tails of the test results. I have both DNA profiles in front of me, the Sire and Dam, but I can't decifer anything. Both pieces of ID are from the AKC. If I wanted to trace ancestry could I use this? Or what does this tell me? I was given a family tree, but do the DNA profiles give this info as well?


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## Tom King

The DNA won't tell you anything right now. Dogs that sire over a few litters are required to have DNA on file with the AKC. It doesn't have anything to do with the health testing that's been talked about here. And it's not just the health testing but that the parents have passed the tests and hopefully every dog in the pedigree for several generations back.

Any breeder who doesn't do health testing has a reason and it's not a reason to justify breeding the dogs. They are the ones increasing the bad percentages of health problems in the breed.

You have to go looking for the responsible breeders. There might not be one close to you. We don't have to advertise because of our reputation, because the demand is so high as there are LOTS of people who want these dogs. The best homes seek us out.


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## whitBmom

Tom thanks for your reply. I did recieve all the recent testing from both Sire and Dam, but I was wondering what this copy of DNA testing was for. I guess I was wondering if there was some reference website or something to figure out what each of the parents genetic map is. I figured I would throw the question out there, but in order to figure it out I am gathereing that I would have to go through Oreo's geneology and look for testing on each previous generation. Am I correct?


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## DEWY

*New to Havanese-Need Ontario or reputable breeder recommendation*

Hi, I have an 8 year old Golden whom I love, however she is declining due to severe arthritis. I did all my homework with the breeder, went to visit, got pedigrees, met the parents, investigated online and yet she has always had many health troubles. The things that makes me feel better is unbeknownst to me my vet (husband and wife vets) chose the same breeder and have my Golden's direct sister. Yes more health problems with her too. It was the breeders attitude when we both called back to ask her to stop breeding that particularly line that bothered us all.

I have decided to add a Havanese to our family, I have done some research and think this is the breed for me. I live just outside Toronto can anyone recommend honourable breeders for me to go to. I know they can't predict the future. 
I'm very excited. Help please!


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## dboudreau

Yeh, another Canadian,:canada: The Canadian Havanese Fanciers has a great web site to help in finding breeders and lots of great information

www.havanesefanciers.com

I would try there first. Also there a a few people on this forum from the Toronto area. Good luck in your search.


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