# Havanese rescue organization?



## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

I'm perfectly serious here. I was reading the responses to the woman whose dog was peeing and pooping in the house. Why is always the fault of the human owners? My dog Sherman is a year and half old. Is it too much to ask him to poop and pee outside? Most of the time he's ok, but every so often he makes a "mistake" inside. I'm tired of it. I have put up with making my cats eat on tables and never seeing the sofa anymore and taking him for walks 3-4times a day in any kind of abominable weather. But this is the last straw. I can't stand it anymore. He cost $800 but I am perfectly comfortable giving him away. Is there any organization that will take an imperfectly housetrained dog? I won't take him to an animal shelter, but is there a Havanese rescue organization?
Thanks,
Carol


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh yes, please contact Havanese Rescue. The link is right on the front of the forum, but here it is again: http://www.havaneserescue.com/

I'm sorry Carol.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

First I am sorry you are having difficulty. Some dogs are harder to housebreak than others-I have had one of each. This list is a great place for assistance depending on what type of housebreaking you are working on-some use liter, I use outdoors, etc. I have done it all depending on the area of the country I lived in.

If you ever need any assistance from http://www.havaneserescue.com please feel free to go there. They have tons of resources for training and if you ever want to surrender.

I do hope you are able to find the assistance you need.

Amanda


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

Oh goodness, he's so cute. I wish I lived in your area  
Cooper is 1, and still has a few accidents. There are just days he rather poop on my son's geo track, then outside. No clue what's up with that.
Best of luck to you and your pup.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

And here is the email address for assistance: assistance (at) havaneserescue.com 
Just change the (at) to @


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

I'm shocked no one here has offered to snag him away from you yet?! Oh yeahhhh, thats what PM's are for.. lol
No more secrets guys, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Carol, I sent you an email as well.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

I am so sorry you are feeling this way. 
Is the only time he gets to go to the bathroom when you talk him on walks?
If so, 3-4 times a day may not be enough.
Are you able to get a doggy door? I must tell you, it's been a lifesaver around here! Does he have full access to your whole house or do you have him restricted to certain areas (my dogs were having way more accidents when they had full access.) I put up a walk-thru gate blocking off the hallway/bedrooms. My dogs only have access to my kitchen/diningroom/livingroom with a doggy door to access outside.
Do you work during the day or are you home?
And I must say~ I think most Havanese are going to have an "off day" every once in a while. Even my 3 1/2 year old will sometimes have an accident in the house, especially on rainy days~~~ Grrrrrr~!
I hope these ideas can help you~


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I'm sorry its not working out with Sherman  I do know that Havanese are harder to housebreak than some other breeds.

Please contact Havanese Rescue if you feel you must re-home him! They are WONDERFUL people there and will find a great, loving home for him.

Kara


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I wish I was closer,as I'd take your Sherman.He is perfectly adorable.I hope you do find a solution.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Carol, I am sorry that Sherman is not working with you guys. If I didnt have 3 already, I would consider taking him! I hope that someone at the Rescue is able to help you, or someone here is up to taking sherman in.
Laurie


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Carol,
I'm so sorry you are having trouble with Sherman. Major Kudos to you though for NOT taking him to a shelter and thinking of the Hav Rescue organization. They are wonderful folks who will re-home Sherman if you decide that's the way you want to go. I wish you lived closer to CA. I'd be happy to help out in any way I could.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Question - from most of what I've seen thus far, the breeder usually has the right to take back the puppy if unwanted? (in most contracts anyhow) Have you told your breeder about this?

Ryan


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Oh my God Carole, you're breaking my heart. I know how frustrating it can be to have them make all over the house. Milo is also taking longer than I'd hoped to get trained. Are you sure you're ready to part with him and that you don't want to try a little longer. Please understand, I'm not questioning your decision, just wondering if you'll regret it. He is absolutely adorable.


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## JAEwton (Aug 7, 2007)

Carol I know where you are coming from. My Titan is a 50--50 on the potty thing. A few times he has been outside then comes in and messes in the house. However Katie has been house broken since the first day I received her. Maybe it is a boy thing. If I were anywhere near you I would take in Sherman with no regret's. I pulled all my carpet's and have wood floor's. Much easier to clean.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

JAEwton said:


> Maybe it is a boy thing.


I can assure you it has nothing to do with the sex of your dog.Males are not harder to housebreak then a female.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Carol, what about calling a trainer? There may be just one thing that they might suggest that will make it click with him!!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I agree with Julie here. I understand that there are people who have a harder time house training than others (perhaps some dogs are harder than others) but it's definitely not sex oriented. Kubrick has been reliable since he was 4 months old with perhaps one or two accidents when he missed the pad - though he knows to go straight for it.


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

Beamer said:


> Question - from most of what I've seen thus far, the breeder usually has the right to take back the puppy if unwanted? (in most contracts anyhow) Have you told your breeder about this?
> 
> Ryan


Ryan's right. Did you contact your breeder? Sometimes they will know someone or sometimes they will take your suggestion for a new family (there are a few good ones here)

I am so sorry it is not working out for you. The questions above are important. When does he do it? How much freedom do you give him? Houston had a few accidents that I didn't know about (some I was told after the fact) and every one of those times it was because my boys forgot to let him out or didn't leave him out right away when they came home. GRRRRR. So it was really their fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Other times it could be the dog. My Cairn Terrier would just stare at the door..........if you didn't see her, she would find her own solution. It was frustrating. We really had to limit her space and it worked out...............


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

Sherman said:


> I'm perfectly serious here. I was reading the responses to the woman whose dog was peeing and pooping in the house. Why is always the fault of the human owners? My dog Sherman is a year and half old. Is it too much to ask him to poop and pee outside? Most of the time he's ok, but every so often he makes a "mistake" inside. I'm tired of it. I have put up with making my cats eat on tables and never seeing the sofa anymore and taking him for walks 3-4times a day in any kind of abominable weather. But this is the last straw. I can't stand it anymore. He cost $800 but I am perfectly comfortable giving him away. Is there any organization that will take an imperfectly housetrained dog? I won't take him to an animal shelter, but is there a Havanese rescue organization?
> Thanks,
> Carol


Carol....

I am so sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time, as Sherman is such a beautiful dog!!

I wish "I" lived closer, as I would be at your house in a heart beat!!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I don't think housebreaking is harder for boys, if you read any thread about it...there is a good mix of both sexes that have regression. Is Sherman going inside the house every day?

I did have a trainer tell me once that it is harder to housebreak dogs when you have cats, because some dogs will instinctively try to put their 'scent' over the cats..and that's either sex dog/just a dominance thing.

I don't have cats, so I don't know if that is true or a wives-tale, but I do have friends that other breeds of dogs that always pee near and around their catbox and where the cats 'hang out', and they are 2-3 years old? So, who knows.

It may be 'harder' to housebreak some dogs, but not impossible! 

Kara


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> I did have a trainer tell me once that it is harder to housebreak dogs when you have cats, because some dogs will instinctively try to put their 'scent' over the cats..and that's either sex dog/just a dominance thing.
> 
> Kara


Kara, I heard that too. I am not sure if it is true or not.

Can you afford a trainer for Sherman? Have someone come in and look at the situation. Sometimes it is something simple to fix.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

I'm thinking "Old Wives Tale", Kara. We have an indoor cat and Biscuit is totally indifferent to Jesse's elimination. 

Biscuit was easy to housebreak, and was very reliable from 6 mos old, and he's a boy AND a Hav, LOL ! But, Carol, I am home almost all of the time and thus very observant of his needs. Nevertheless, a couple of weeks ago he peed on a freshly laundered bathroom rug. First accident in six months. Go figure. But then I realized he was due to go out and I had forgotten.

I don't think 3-4 times a day is enough, Carol. I believe Biscuit goes maybe 6 times during the day. Although, he can probably hold it much longer. Stays dry at night for 10 hrs. He's 14 mos old, close to Sherman's age.

I'm sorry you are frustrated. Also wish I were nearby. Doesn't he have any redeeming qualities? If not, or you are sure that it just won't work out, please do contact Havanese Rescue asap. Good luck.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Amy! LOL

As I read your post, my washer machine "beeped" and I had to laugh because I was washing the bathroom RUG! Which she peed' on yesterday.
Granted, the housekeeper was here and threw out her peepads, and I didn't put one down, so she found the closest bath-rug...and I've managed to keep her off of them for a good 2-3 weeks now. *sigh*

It may be a wives-tale? Or it may just mean it a bit 'harder' if the dog is competing with the cat? My mother has both cats and dogs and her dogs still pee/poop in the house, but then again...she isn't home most of the day to *train* them.

I think any dog can be *trained*, some just take more time than other, and even 'instinctive' behaviors, can be taught to 'not DO it'. Some just take more time than others.

Gucci just thinks the bath-rugs are pee pads. That's my problem. lol

Kara


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

You guys are so nice to try to encourage Carol, but if you go back and read her posts, she's been working on this specific problem for over a year (Sept 2006) and has been very frustrated with it. Sometimes you just have to know when a problem isn't something you can handle anymore. For the sake of Sherman and for Carol (and any other family members), maybe it is time to stop being frustrated and allow someone else to home him. 

Carol, I think you are being very thoughtful to realize when the time has come. You don't want to resent a creature that was meant to bring joy to your home. 

By the way, I believe Havanese Rescue knows you may be contacting them. The one stipulation is that you don't have a return policy with the breeder.

Best wishes to you and to Sherman.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Kara, in our front bathroom, I have to throw a potty pad over the bath mat (when we don't have guests) because even though my dogs are housetrained, something about that texture draws the dogs to it. I can't ever catch which one it is, but it doesn't seem to be just one. Thank goodness that is our only real accident area so it is very easy to prevent with a potty pad.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I have to agree with Kimberly here. I think if things are that difficult that sometimes it's better for everyone involved to find the best solution. In this case, I do think that re-homing Sherman may be the best thing for both Carol and Sherman.

Carol, I wish you luck and I'm sorry that it came to this.


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

Thumperlove said:


> Gucci just thinks the bath-rugs are pee pads. That's my problem. lol
> 
> Kara


Kara, I don't use pee pads, but Nigel took to peeing on the rugs when he was about 6 months old. I took them up for about a month and it seemed to stop the problem.


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

Carol,

I hope you're able to work through this and hold on to your adorable Sherman. If he's having only occasional accidents then it sure sounds like he's trying to get it right. 

We're hoping it all works out for the best in any case.

Wanda


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Isabelle was pad trained first and to this day, if we don't have the dog door open <that is seriously the best invention ever especially when you have a tiny bladder!> she will walk in the bathroom and use the matt. It just really sucks if she did it when you are stepping out of the shower <BG>

Amanda


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Mine go mostly outside, but I did pad train them, also. It works great for when I'm not home, etc. 

The other side of the coin is that I can't keep any small rugs down. If they see a bath mat or scatter rug, that's a pee pad in their eyes. It's mostly Shelby that does that. Kodi has been trained for quite some time. Shelby is good for long stretches now, and then one day she gets brain freeze and will pee on the floor. I really think it is just like peeing the bed...she waits too long and then can't make it to the pad. Because she almost gets there, but not quite.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

That's funny, Milo does that too. I had just washed the bathroom floor and taken the bath mat out of the dryer, fluffed it up and put it down. Later that day Milo, proudly I'm sure, made a solid deposit square on it. However, on the plus side (and I'm almost afraid to say this) he's made outside almost exclusively for days now except for one sizeable puddle on the pee pad. Yay! (whisper).


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I am so sorry to hear that Sherman did not pass muster but I tend to agree with Kimberly - maybe it was not meant to be .. It is better to rehome him now while he is still young .. 
It sounds to me like Carol has had it and I am sure this relates on how she and the dog are interacting and communicating ..
I do not know about the cats on the table however i think that would upset me more than a little mistake or upset now and again .. 
As to the bath rugs _ I have had the same problem - I had it with Asta and I have it with Cosmo .. Cosmo was pee pee pad trained and so I try not to have area rugs that he can pee on ..
like Sherman he is a little over a year old - he is doing Ok with his potty training . Sometimes it is my fault and I accept that .. 
I do find having a routine and also using the crate works well for us .. Asta seemed to learn faster but I also got him in the late spring versus the fall and I really feel that made a difference .. The days were longer and we were outside more and we were more active .. It was harder with cosmo as it got dark so early .. thus the pee pee pads ..
I know there have been many people posting on this forum who would like a Havanese and they cannot afford them - hopefully the Havanese Rescue will find him a home where he can try and start over with a clean slate .. I am sure the prospective owner is made aware of any shortcomings ..
Good Luck Sherman ..


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Yesit it has been almost a year of working with Sherman and you are obviously frustrated and at your wits end w/ the housebreaking, Carol..by all means re-home him. I certainly don't think you should keep a dog that is making you miserable.

Kara


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## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

Hi, thanks to all you wrote such useful responses. I looked up the Havanese Rescue group but Sherman was good last night and my neighbor who walks her dogs with us said she'd never speak to me again if I gave Sherman away. So I think I'll just bear down again and make sure he doesn't eat anything except dog food, take him out late at night and hope for the best. 
Thanks again!
Carol


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Carol,
Also don't hesitate to email (Kimberly's post in the beginning) just for assistance and someone to talk to about different ideas. A lot of what HRI does is preventative in the sense of talking to owners about how to overcome training issues. There are very successful foster homes that have taught dogs who have lived in puppy mills (tiny cages) potty training habits.

Amanda


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## SnobunnieNY (Oct 24, 2007)

Carol - Where are you located in Upstate NY I am outside of Syr...and have "Boomer" or "Boo" a 6 mo. old Hav. He is still working on the potty thing and it is much harder than our Goldens ever where. I would love to talk with you about some ofthe things that worked for us. Do you confine Sherman? What is his timing? I know that Boo is like clockwork and I have to be there for those times...


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Carol, 

I'm sorry to hear you are still having problems with Sherman. I remember your posts for help earlier this year, I was hoping things were better.

I certainly understand your frustration. Anytime Sam gets into one of the bathrooms or the kids room he will pee. But not in front of me. He doesn't have "accidents" anywhere else in the house. 


Good luck with Sherman, only you know what will be best for you and your family. :grouphug:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Carol,

How does he *notify* you that he needs to go out? I know many of us had problems til' we hung bells at the door, or bought the electronic doorbell, since some Havs aren't 'barkers' they will not think to go bark at the door.

Gucci used to go sit at the door for a minute, but if I didn't SEE her, then she'd pee right there. Since I hung the bells, I've got her 95% trained, except the rugs! She goes outside all day long and uses pads at night if my husband doesn't take her out. I dont' do cold weather.

I know you've probably read all the housebreaking threads, but I agree with Amanda, HR may have some ideas since they've dealt with housebreaking older dogs from mills.

Your neighbor probably wants the best for you and Sherman, but you will have to make the decision that is best for you, Sherman, and your family.

Kara


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

This is heartbreaking. I agree, only you know what is best for you and your family. Please do what is right for you and Sherman and don't worry about what your neighbor thinks. If Sherman is not right for you then both of you deserve a different solution, rather than staying because of what a neighbor might think and both of you being miserable. If you're truly fed up and sick of it, Sherman will pick those feelings up.

Tessa does the stare at the door thing too, or sometimes she'll go to the doorway of the sunroom which is where the door she goes out is located, and stare at me. I also take her out at least every 1 1/2 to 2 hrs and if I see her sniffing along the floor out she goes even if I think she "shouldn't" have to go.

Does Sherman chew a lot of Flossies or bully sticks? I know when Tessa has one she drinks a LOT more water and we've had accidents on those days. I keep water down, but food is put out only twice a day. I can pretty well predict her poops.

Good luck and I wish both of you the best. Please keep us informed!


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Carol, first let me say that I think by now you realize you came to the right place. We are not here to judge, just help in any way we can. Whatever happens, I'm glad you asked about rescue first. Sherman is a cutie.

Mine go out first thing in the A.M., which is between 6:30 and 7. Then, they are home with my Mom, and she lets them out. They will usually run to the back door, because they want to go out and play. When I get home from work around 1pm, they are out again, either for a walk, or just to play in the yard with me. If they have been napping, as soon as they get up, I put them outside.

They have their signals to let me know they want to go out. They will whine, or run to the back door. Sometimes, Kodi will ring the bells. You have to be aware of their signals.

It is like work to keep them on track. But you will be happy when it all clicks.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Carol,
I so agree with everyone who has posted, that your neighbors feelings should not be the decision maker!! You guys need to do what is best for you and your family!! And if you are so frustrated with him all the time, he will sense that. I know that you are getting lots of tips on training, and they all are good ideas that worked for each person. I think if is just a matter of finding the right one that works for your situation. Is he crate trained? that is always an option. when mine were little, when it was "time" or I believed they should be going, I took them out. If they did not go they went back into the crate for about 5-10 minutes, then we tried outside again. Eventually they got the hang of it. I can say that although lily barks to go out. Lexi says nothing, does nothing - so I have to be more aware of her. Logan will not make noise, except to throw his body against the glass sliding door - it really is funny, thankfully he doesnt hurt himself. But.. If I am not there to hear him, we will only hold it so long, and will go on the floor at times. I commend you on your efforts to keep Sherman in the family and I pray that you will find the "system" that works best for you - even it it is finding him a new home. Good luck and keep us all up to date.
laurie


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I agree with what everyone else says. Make the best decision for you and for Sherman. It's not your neighbor who has to deal with the housetraining issues, it's you. If Sherman is frustrating you to the point that you are thinking of re-homing him, that is some serious frustration and he WILL pick up on it. It's not fair to him to be in a home where his owner is often angry at him and it's not fair to you to not have the dog experience you were hoping for. If you've been dealing with this for a year, it's not going to go away without some serious work. Maybe a professional trainer could help you.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

It will take some time and patience, but if you are determined to do it Carol, you will be successful. I would take up Kimberly on her suggestion to keep in contact with her. Just like with little children, it is such an encouraging thing to have a support group. Limiting the food to 2 times a day has helped us trememdously. We watch how much 'other' things we feed him and we do leave his water bottle out all day. I don't really let Oreo go longer without going to the potty for more than 4 hrs at a time. But in your case, I would maybe start every 2-2.5 hrs. When Oreo regressed, I used the crate for the last 30mins close to his potty time and get myself and daughter ready for our walk, while he waited in his crate, and then as soon as we were ready we would go out for his potty break. After about a week of perisisting in this, Oreo got it again. This will take time, but it can be done. Hugs to you, but if ever you are finding things just too frustrating, rehoming him may be a solution. Sometimes we have a tendency to worry too much about how others view us, and are willing to compromise our own peace, happiness and well-being for others. Listen to your 'gut' it has the answer, only you will know what is best for you and Sherman. :grouphug:


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

And Carol - dont forget the treat and "Potty parties" That is what cinched it for us!!


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Not sure what you tried exactly to help housebreak him, I'm sure you probably tried just about everything. In housebreaking Bogart and now Brando I used the following routines (which I am still using on Brando). 

First off when I first got Brando, I watched him for the weekend every single minute to just try to catch him peeing in the wrong spot. As soon as he seemed to be circling or sniffing I took him to the pad and said "go potty". Even if he didn't have to go he got the idea. As soon as he did go on the pad, it was a celebration - treats involved of course. This won't stop until he's like a year old.

Also, no water or food after 8:30pm. Then I take him out around 10pm to pee.
In the morning when we wake up at 6:30am, I have to get ready of the day by of course jumping in the shower. I take Brando in the bathroom with me, close the door and put a pee pad in the corner which has a pee on it already. Sure enough within a min he has to pee and uses it. While I'm shaving, getting dressed etc he is not allowed to leave my side. Then I get dressed, get Bogart and Brando on a leash and take them outside.

Once outside they do their business, mark a few trees and posts lol then back inside. I feed him. They are both locked in the kitchen until 12:30pm until my mom comes by. She feeds them right away and takes them outside. Back inside she lets them play throughout my home but watching Brando for any signs. He has a pee pad in the kitchen and bathroom.

I take him out when I get home at 5pm. Feed him at 6pm and then back to my evening routine. I watch him constantly.

I did this with Bogart and by the time he was a year old, the only times he made a mistake was when he was sick or I couldnt get home in time to take him out. Right now Brando is hitting the pee pad about 95% of the time and getting better. There are days when things go wrong, like the past weekend, but as he gets older they happen less and less.

I also noticed that if you scream at a dog when he goes in the wrong place, he starts to think something is wrong so when he does have to go he will be more sneaky about it and try to go somewhere in a dark or faraway corner. I will scold Brando but only by saying "Nooooooo" in a loud firm voice.

Not sure if any of that helps.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Carol, I can't add anything else that has not already been said. I just want to offer you support in what ever direction you take for your family. I house sat a Hav that was never trained and it is tough to live with. But Sherman is still young and if you do decide to hunker down and really focus again on the training I bet he is still trainable. But if you decide to to give him up to rescue I am sure he will find a wonderful home- he is so adorable and he does sound like he partly trained-- so no need to feel guilty- Just do what is best for you and your family.


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2007)

Missy said:


> Carol, I can't add anything else that has not already been said. I just want to offer you support in what ever direction you take for your family. I house sat a Hav that was never trained and it is tough to live with. But Sherman is still young and if you do decide to hunker down and really focus again on the training I bet he is still trainable. But if you decide to to give him up to rescue I am sure he will find a wonderful home- he is so adorable and he does sound like he partly trained-- so no need to feel guilty- Just do what is best for you and your family.


:amen::grouphug: I agree!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Missy said what I could not say eloquently... We are here to support you no matter what you decide. Hugs to you :grouphug:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I had a lot of issues at first with Belle but we were so torn on how to train her and I think this is where a lot of people make the mistake. I started off with the pads because we got her in January in Michigan and it was hit and miss- I knew I shouldn't correct her for peeing next to the pad but that wasn't okay! My husband who grew up with outdoor dogs, didn't really like this pad all around the house type thing either.

Then we went halfway to outdoors. So what I came to realize, is the issue wasn't too much freedom, the dog just thought sometimes it is okay to go in the house, sometimest it isn't. My husband actually took over and totally trained her outdoors. It took an entire year between all the back and forth. Thank goodness they are little dogs- we would have killed a house with carpet! Then we went to a house where Belle could go outside and she would bark at us when she needed to go out. Dora on the otherhand, never barked. She just walks over to the door. We did use the Bells with her cause we didn't have a dog door. Now, we are in a house with a dog door and I will say Belle is absolutely amazing. We leave the dog door open (except when I am not home- Belle will escape!) and she goes in and out even during the middle of the night. She now pees on the rocks right next to the front step (weirdo dog!) Dora on the otherhand, still needs that approval that she was used to with us. She walks up to the dog door and looks at it. We have ot say "go potty" and she jumps all happy to go outside. I am hoping eventually she watches Belle enough and doesn't need the approval. 

Amanda


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I know it can be hard to potty train these dogs .. I have read that small dogs can be challenging not just Havanese .. They are potty training books out there and Ithink this forum handles it well .. so many threads - so many suggestions ..There is just so much helpful information and people speaking from experience .. 
I know that frustration enters into this a lot .. It is a difficult situation for both the dog and the owner .. It is difficult also because these dogs are sensitive and they pick up on your feelings.
Sometimes having a helper - a trainer or behaviourist who gives you a different perspective on your dog can work wonders .. They can see the positives in you and the dog and work with you and the dog and encourage you both . They can put some perspective back and help you focus on the postitve .. and yep even find some humor in it all ..
I found this with the woman that came to help me with Cosmo .. We had a lot going on at the time dominance and barking and potty issues .. She was amazing she helped me a lot .. It takes time though - it is not corrected immediately - there is a learning curve and also a period of regression but if you stick with it it improves and they do get it .. 
Also it helps to have a few days away from your dog so you can come back in fresh and ready to take it on again .. ? Do you have anyone who would take Sherman for a day or two .. warts and all .. Sometimes believe it or not they are much better for this person as they do not know them .. 
Our petsitter helped me a lot . She is so keen to help me train the dogs .. There were times due to the remodel I was on overload and she said I will handle the dogs . We work as a team but they are so much better now that they have her and me training them .. We both try yo do do the same things .. We compare notes and see what is positive and if not we change it - consistency is key .. 
She sees this as a challenge as she is now adding this to her resume - will take on puppies !! Just kidding !! My dogs were the first she had that were still not totally trained so she saw it as anew opportunity and something to learn rather than avoid it like a lot of petsitters see it .. .. 
Trust me I know how hard it is .. I think people on this forum are supportive of either decision . We just want what is best for you and Sherman .
It appears to me that you are a caring loving and considerate pet owner who is on overload and you just need to decide if you it can rally one more time .. it seems like you are ready ..
We here to help if you need it ..
Take care ..


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Carol,

I'm so happy for you that you've decided to give it another try. For some reason I suspect you really don't want to give him away but the frustration level is really testing your patience. As I told you in my earlier post, Milo has tested my patience, probably less for his "mistakes" than the fact that I know he's so smart and can't believe he regresses so. No matter what though, for me (and I know this is a very personal decision) I could no more give him away than I could an elderly relative who was incontinent (and I did deal with that for years). 

Just know that we can get through this. I know we'll all be here for you any time you can't stand it and need to vent. Also know, what works for some may not work for others. What seems to be making a huge difference in my world is letting him know in no uncertain terms how angry (or upset) I am when he makes in the house. The last two times he did it, he was relegated to the lower level of the house -- alone. The rest of us were upstairs. I left him there till the next time he was due to go out and then he came back and joined us. Milo doesn't like to be alone but he didn't even wail or cry, just stayed there till I fetched him. That was twice within a few days. Since then we haven't had a single errant pee or poop. Will it last forever? I doubt it, but I feel like we're heading in the right direction.

My prayers and good thoughts are with you in this difficult struggle. He does look so sweet.


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## kgiese (Apr 18, 2007)

Carol,

I hope you are able to work things out with Sherman. He is such a doll. I know you are frustrated, but hang on if you can. I found that my male havanese could hold it longer and longer as he got older, therefore I didn't have to watch him as close. I also had to train me to watch for signs that he needs out. He's 3 years old and I still have to remind myself to watch him when I'm home (I just ordered the bells for the door). I work and he does not pee or poop in the house, even though I leave the pads out for him. The only time he has an accident now is if he's sick. I make sure he's done his business before I leave for work, and come straight home so that he can go out. My DH works from home sometimes, so he's not always alone. I do know that if he tanks up on water before bedtime that I will be up at 3 or 4 a.m. to let him out. He sleeps with us so he will come up and lick my ear to wake me up to take him out. He's done that since we got him at 9 weeks. --One last thought. Has the vet checked him out for bladder infections?

Karen


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## suzyfrtz (Nov 12, 2007)

Hi Carol

I really feel for you. My heart goes out to you and your little Hav. 

My situation: 43 years of marriage, and I've raised 4 kids, various breeds of dogs, two cats, and one husband.  They are all alot of work. They all make alot of messes. I've had one doxie years ago, Schultz, who liked to mark his territory. Yes, indoors and out. But the kids adored him and he was a hilarious little guy...his redeeming qualities outweighed his bad. So I cleaned up after him. My dear Golden Retriever Beau had a bladder that would hold for hours and hours, but he shed all over. I could have made several afghans out of his hair. When we lost him at an early age, it broke my heart and what I wouldn't give to have his hair all over the sofa (and me) again. My little Hav Caz is pretty good about potty training - I take him out alot - but he does relapse now and again, and I think, oh well, we have to replace the carpets someday anyway. My point is, I'm not in any way trying to be superior. I just think different folks have different lifestyles and different expectations and they know what they can cope with. I don't think you should keep your little guy if he's upsetting you so much. They can sense our displeasure, and it can't be good for him or for you. Sit back, have a cup of coffee, tea, cocoa - or your choice - and rest - look at everything from the big picture. Would you be happier and more peaceful with him or without him? Please please make your decision for yourself, your family and especially for Sherman - he can't make the decison for himself.

Suzy


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## kgiese (Apr 18, 2007)

suzyfrtz said:


> Hi Carol
> 
> My point is, I'm not in any way trying to be superior. I just think different folks have different lifestyles and different expectations and they know what they can cope with. I don't think you should keep your little guy if he's upsetting you so much. They can sense our displeasure, and it can't be good for him or for you. Sit back, have a cup of coffee, tea, cocoa - or your choice - and rest - look at everything from the big picture. Would you be happier and more peaceful with him or without him? Please please make your decision for yourself, your family and especially for Sherman - he can't make the decison for himself.
> 
> Suzy


I think you said it all.

Karen


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## Lola (Mar 22, 2007)

I really can relate to what you are going through. I found it to be very frustrating to housetrain a Havanese. I almost threw in the towel also. One person made the suggestion to take some time off. Is there a reliable kennel where you live? If so take a break, (a full week) decide in that time if you want to keep him then start from scratch.Takehim out every 2 hours. It is a gruling schedule. No water or food after 6 only a small ice cube if he is thirsty but not before bed. Let him out at 11 get him up at 5am and start again. Don't let him out of your sight and when you can't watch him, crate him. That was Lola's schedule for a little over a year and she still had a few accidents. I was very tired of the whole thing. But one day it all clicked and all of my hard work paid off. She is free of accidents. I still watch her but she really can be trusted to let me know. The key is scheduling. What goes in has to come out. That is the key to the whole thing and recognizing the signal. Also gentle corrections worked the best with Lola. She can sense when I am upset with her and she does not respond to harsh words. I am so glad I stayed with it because she is a wonderful companion. Also like someone else said, a trainer can be invaluable to you if you have one around. Possibly your Vet can give you some advice. Maybe Serman has some health problems that might be an obstacle in his training. Your Vet may have some answers. If you take the week off and clear your head you will be able to make the right decision for you and Sherman. It may be that you need to find him another home or best case keep him in you life. Good luck!


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## Barney's Mom (Nov 24, 2006)

Hi Carol, I have read all the posts responding to your dilemna and smiled throughout....for you see, I have Barney...a 2 1/2 year old "rescue" that came to us 18 months ago and still has that occasional accident. I am no spring chicken and have arthritic knees, and would love to have him completely trained! I have read every book, checked out every potty training thread and have had many, many dogs in my life...and still no absolute success! I seem to be taking Mr. B outside every 2-2/12 hours all day long...he ALWAYS pees....and still - every once in a while - if I am caught up doing something and let time lapse...he will decide he can't wait any longer! I know your frustration....and also know how difficult it is to let go! My take is this...every dog is different...every home is different....and the wee size and huge heart of these dogs make it somewhat easier to cope with the situation....and if it gets too much then there will always be someone waiting patiently (I had to wait 2 years) to find a dog to care for! Let me know your secret if you find one and keep on writing and sharing...I find it really helps! 

Marge and Barney in brrrrrr cold MN


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2007)

DanielBMe said:


> Not sure what you tried exactly to help housebreak him, I'm sure you probably tried just about everything. In housebreaking Bogart and now Brando I used the following routines (which I am still using on Brando).
> 
> First off when I first got Brando, I watched him for the weekend every single minute to just try to catch him peeing in the wrong spot. As soon as he seemed to be circling or sniffing I took him to the pad and said "go potty". Even if he didn't have to go he got the idea. As soon as he did go on the pad, it was a celebration - treats involved of course. This won't stop until he's like a year old.
> 
> ...


Daniel..this approach also worked well for me... The close observation, routine and postive praise really got good results. As a matter of fact Sophie (now 4) and Gabe (now 2) still recieve postive praise when they go, and will even go on command now, as I have linked the word "go pee-pee "or "go poo-poo" with the action.

I have found though that it is not good to stand at the door yelling this when my husband is working from home and is on a conference call ound:


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## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

Hi again,
I'm starting to think it was the stray cat I rescued about 2 weeks ago that made Sherman lapse. I can't think what else it could have been. Now he's starting to get used to her and I'm taking him out right before I go to bed, no matter what the weather's like. Then he stays on my bed until morning, good as gold. 
Thanks again for all your input. You guys are so wonderful.
Carol


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Carol, I cannot tell you how happy I am to hear that!! I have been thinking a lot about you, and know how frustrating it is!! Great news on Sherman, hope he keeps up the good work!!!


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Carol,

I am so happy to hear that Sherman is doing better with his potty training. 
Go Sherman, Go Sherman, Go Sherman!!! :cheer2: :cheer2: :cheer2:

You sound much happier as well, maybe Sherman and your new kitty will make friends. 

Keep us posted.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

That's great news Carol!I'm glad things are going good with Sherman.He is such a cute lil' bugger....:cheer2:Go Sherman!:cheer2:


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Our pets can be affected by changes. I had a Siamese cat that we loved, but I had to end up finding another home for him. When I got my first dog, this beautiful, completely litter box trained cat, started spraying my entire house. He was just too stressed by the dog. Getting rid of the dog was not an option, so I found a good home for the cat. It wasn't an easy thing to do, either.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

These dogs are very sensitive and it sounds to me like he felt there was an intruder in the house ..so he had to reestablish his terrritory and his place in the pack ...
The rules had changed a new critter was now on site . 
Now it appears he is feeling better about the kitty and more secure ..
Our friends brought their Bichon to visit the other day and he was so busy running around and marking to establish his wonderful new territory . He is a sweet little guy but this is one of his major flaws .. He ended up in the sherpa as he was all over the house .. This dog is almost 7 years so there is no way he is going to stop doing this at this age .. 
I did not want to reinforce the behavior with my dogs so we knew this was the only solution - time for a nap !!. 
Now we have the missing clue with Sherman's regression - a kitty !!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Oh Carol, I am so happy for you. That certainly could be it. The intrusion might have upset the balance in the house and he felt threatened. Whatever the reason, I'm so glad it's going better for you both. I'm sending him a cyber hug.


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

Carol, I'm so glad Sherman seems to be back on track! Just like us, some of these little guys need time to adjust to changes in the family dynamics. I hope Sherman continues to do well and that your stress level drops so you can enjoy your adorable companion!

Wanda


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Carol,

I was just reading in my Havanese magazine tonight that the number one reason Havanese dogs are turned over to the Havanese Rescue Organization is because of potty training problems. So it is *not* *just* Sherman it is the breed in general. Sherman is not just doing it to be mean to you or upset you. He still loves you....he is just a slow learner when it comes to potty training.

I think alot of us have problems with this, I know Casper is 14 months now and I still have some problems....but I keep working with him.

I really wish you the best with this problem. I know I have had my challenges with Casper in a couple of different areas....but I also know after having a few dogs, that the training problems last only a small amount of time, compared to the life time of love and joy and championship they bring us.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I agree Lynn. There is a book written called 
Little Dogs :
Training your Pint Sized companions written by Deborah Wood .
I really recommend it because i think people need to learn that there is a difference in owniing a smaller dog . Not only that I think people approach these dogs differently because they are smaller .. and more vulnerable .
A lot of us are not that experienced when it comes to owning a smaller dog .. Maybe we have only had big dogs and this is a first time experience ..
It would be a shame to eliminate them from our lives over issues that can be resolved with time and patience when they bring us so much joy ..
As this book says - these dogs have special needs and once we address them and understand them - it does change and improve ..


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Yay, I am so happy to hear this!! The cat really could have worried him and may have triggered it. Thanks for turning here - we have so many great friends don't we? Hugs to you :hug:


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

Oh Carol. It may be that Sherman was just upset over the cat. That is great news that he is doing better. :whoo::whoo:


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## Sherman (Sep 20, 2006)

Hi again,
Today I bragged to a neighbor that Sherman hadn't had an accident in a week and a half. He'll be 2 in May, so I don't think that is much to brag about. A couple of hours later I was sitting here, having just scooped the litter boxes. Handel's "Messiah" was on downstairs. I got up and discovered Sherman had peed on a newspaper behind me. I scolded him (it had just happened) and gated the stairway so he can't come up here. Usually he goes from the early walk around 7:30 to noon without a problem. He hasn't peed in the house for at least a year. He's been going out 4-5 times a day, with the last time being around 9 or 10 p.m. Should I take him out even more often? I guess I will, at least for awhile. One step ahead and 2 steps back. I know he knows not to pee inside. I just don't know what's going on in his little head. But the stray cat is supposed to go to a new foster home tomorrow. 
Whoopee!
Carol


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Carol,

I am sorry Sherman had a small set back. I think maybe taking him out a little more often for the next day or two just to reinforce the good habits. Hang in there, he is so worth it.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Hi Carol,
Just a thought. If Sherman hadn't peed in the house for a year but then he started doing it, have you had him checked for a UTI or other health issue? Hopefully it is just the cat that's causing his regression and all will be well when the kitty goes to a new home. At two years old he should definitely be able to be reliably house trained.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I would suggest taking him out more often. Although Brady goes a good 8-10 hours at night without any problems, he rings his bells to go out every few hours during the day and in the evening. I know if he is still in his crate for 4 or 5 hours, he can make that fine, but if we are around and he is active, he goes out every 2 or 3 hours. We go for walks at least 2 or 3 times a day, but we step out to go potty a lot more than that. Sorry to hear about the setback, but it certainly sounds like you were making some progress.


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## Wesleysmom (Dec 20, 2007)

Since I complained about Wesley still having accidents, he has ben as good as gold. MAybe one or two in the last month. He probably though he was on his way to the rescue with Sherman! Now he stands at the back door and barks when he needs to go out. OR when he sees his reflection in the window and fears it's someone breaking in the house to steal his toys!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Lanette, I am so glad to hear that - it almost seems that they know we are talking about them so they know they better straighten up!! :whoo:Wesley


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## Lola (Mar 22, 2007)

Sherman said:


> Hi again,
> Today I bragged to a neighbor that Sherman hadn't had an accident in a week and a half. He'll be 2 in May, so I don't think that is much to brag about. A couple of hours later I was sitting here, having just scooped the litter boxes. Handel's "Messiah" was on downstairs. I got up and discovered Sherman had peed on a newspaper behind me. I scolded him (it had just happened) and gated the stairway so he can't come up here. Usually he goes from the early walk around 7:30 to noon without a problem. He hasn't peed in the house for at least a year. He's been going out 4-5 times a day, with the last time being around 9 or 10 p.m. Should I take him out even more often? I guess I will, at least for awhile. One step ahead and 2 steps back. I know he knows not to pee inside. I just don't know what's going on in his little head. But the stray cat is supposed to go to a new foster home tomorrow.
> Whoopee!
> Carol


I would try every two hours. It certainly can't hurt and try to recognize his signs that he has to go outside.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

*Recognizing the signs*



Lola said:


> try to recognize his signs that he has to go outside.


I agree. I know the "look" of Benji when he needs to go. Lizzie is still unpredictable , she is 5 months. Benji was much more reliable at that age. The cold, rainy weather can throw them off track sometimes. Knowing the signs helped me a lot. My DH doesn't pay attention to these things much and tends to have more accidents on his hands when I am not around (which is not very often ) :frusty:


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## RCKNROB (Nov 27, 2007)

I just got my first havanese on Thanksgiving and got another one on Christmas and the girl is doing great, the boy is not doing so well. Do you find it is the boys that are harder to break. We go outside and Augie will come back in and take a piss or poop. Diva will go outside and potty perfectly. I have the bells up on the door knob but neither one get the message. I ring them every time we go out. I take them out together sometimes but decided to do it seperately because they like to play too much. They just sit there and look at me. He is a hard headed Hav I can see already when it comes to potty training. I think tomorrow I am going to keep him closer to my side. At least he does go to the door I take him outside to potty so he is getting close. I do have them confined to the den and kitchen or he would probably go other places like he did before. I don't like pissing in the house either. My DH is a clean freak so I don't even tell him half the time. He would choke him.
He holds it all night with no trouble. I think they just like to leave presents in unusual places.

Robin


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Carol, how is Sherman since the cat went to the foster home? Had you paper or pee pad trained him? Is that why he used the papers? When you say you gated the stairs so he can't go upstairs, are you keeping him alone, away from you? I know my Tessa would probably pee out of anxiety is we kept her away from us. Have you tried tethering him to you if he is in an area of the home where he isn't reliable? We did that with Tessa and it really helped. I hope things have improved since Christmas!

Robin, I'm not sure about the difference between male vs female. We brought Tessa home Nov 10th. Several weeks later we put up bells and simply rang them saying "go potty?" every time we took her outside, we named the behavior, "potty" as she was doing her business, and gave a treat for "good potty" when she finished. Within a few weeks she was ringing the bells on her own w/o any further instruction on our part. She now only has a problem and accidents when she's in an unfamiliar (to her) part of the house so we have to be extra vigilant in those areas. I'm thinking about hanging bells in those areas. It's a work in progress but she's only 5 1/2 mo old. And she does like ringing the bells just to go play but that's another story and thread....:biggrin1: How old are your two? If you brought them home around 10 weeks, they are still babies and it may be too early to expect them to be reliable. Good luck! I'm sure if you searched "house training" you could find probably better advice that I can give! I'm certainly no expert, but it's working for us.


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## RCKNROB (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks Jan,

They are only 5 months old so they still are new to all this stuff. I am home all day and have plenty of time to keep my eye on them. They are getting better or I am one. I think they are helping me get up and move some. I have been going on walks which is good for all 3 of us. Robin


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