# Low Weight Concerns



## malkates (Feb 26, 2018)

We are about to fly on Friday this week (the 11th) to Dallas to pick up a puppy. We wanted a male and on the small side. This puppy is almost 17 weeks old and it finally occurred to me to ask his weight - he was only 2.25 pounds last week! I'm worried about this but the breeder says he's fine just small and expects him to be 8-9 lbs which I think is impossible. 
My questions/issues:
1. Should I ask her to have her vet test his liver function? Heart? Anything in particular?
2. Should I be worried that I've asked to be introduced to other people who have her dogs and she hasn't responded to that? (She said people don't like their email addresses given out).
3. This seems to be a reputable breeder who is part of the local Havanese club in the Dallas/Ft Worth area. She's been very nice and responsive to all my questions but the size is worrying and the reluctance to connect me to others who own her dogs worries me. 

Any advice?


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

My Zoey weighed 1.7 pounds at 9 weeks and weighs 7.4 pounds at one year. If I had it to do over, I would not have done it the same way, I would have gotten a larger puppy and that is that. Many on the forum have picked "runt" of the litter dogs and love them and have no regrets.


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## malkates (Feb 26, 2018)

Marni - thank you. Are you able to say a bit more about why you'd not have picked this small weight dog? Do you feel you've had unusual health problems due to the size? Ours was not described to us as the runt of the litter. I'm not even sure I know why asked for his weight. I did know he was quite a bit older than her puppies usually are when she lets them go.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

you should be able to talk with previous owners. Def. a red flag. My concern is why you are getting this pup so late as the primary window for socialization is basically gone.


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## malkates (Feb 26, 2018)

Well...this is an important question and I'm feeling more foolish by the moment. We had given a deposit to a different breeder a couple months ago. I was uneasy on a few issues and asked quite a few questions about her socialization techniques. I told her I was worried that the puppies didn't go home until 12 weeks and spent all their time indoors. I asked if she could take our guy out for a car ride at least. She got really annoyed and said I asked too many questions and promptly refunded us. This breeder with the now-17 week old puppy is someone I corresponded with months ago and was going to have a litter ready to go home in late june. I contacted her (Wild Rose Havanese) and she said that breeding hadn't taken but that she had a male available from the winter litter. She answered all my socialization questions with good answers...He's been to a puppy class, she's taken him on errands to the bank and to Home Depot. I also saw that someone here said she knew and liked one of the Wild Rose dogs. We've by now spent a lot on this puppy...supplies that we've sent her and a non-refundable expensive plane ticket for one of us to go. I know it's silly but I felt that if we didn't get this puppy we'd have to wait another year (I don't want a puppy in winter). I don't want to insult her by suggesting I am mistrustful of not having references but I think I have to figure out how to ask that without sounding like a jerk.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

trust your instincts. ???


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## malkates (Feb 26, 2018)

I'm just crazily second guessing everything on this. I liked the breeder when I first contacted her - I like her now. She's informed and responsive. But. The references thing makes no sense to me. K Randall posted something positive about Wild Rose but that was a few years ago.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

wait for Karen to reply. or pm her


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## Scarlett's mom (Feb 14, 2017)

I picked Scarlett. She was the second smallest in the litter. She is one year and weighs 6.5 pounds. No regrets about having a tiny dog. Willow will be a little bigger.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

malkates said:


> We are about to fly on Friday this week (the 11th) to Dallas to pick up a puppy. We wanted a male and on the small side. This puppy is almost 17 weeks old and it finally occurred to me to ask his weight - he was only 2.25 pounds last week! I'm worried about this but the breeder says he's fine just small and expects him to be 8-9 lbs which I think is impossible.
> My questions/issues:
> 1. Should I ask her to have her vet test his liver function? Heart? Anything in particular?
> 2. Should I be worried that I've asked to be introduced to other people who have her dogs and she hasn't responded to that? (She said people don't like their email addresses given out).
> ...


Small size CAN mean liver problems, but it doesn't always. But I THINK liver shunts can show up at a later age (adolescence) too. I would talk to your vet about that part for more advice. Heart problems can also cause stunting. But you'd think that most vets could hear something wrong if it was wrong enough to stunt the puppy's growth. (again, check with your vet)

While it is true that not everyone who has one of her puppies may want to talk to prospective buyers, one would think there might be SOMEONE who would speak to you. OTOH, she sure wouldn't give you the contact info for someone who wasn't going to give her a good review, so I'm not sure how meaningful that contact would be anyway.

The puppy does seem very small for that age... Pixel was over 3 lbs at 9 weeks. She is just shy of 10 lbs as an adult.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> wait for Karen to reply. or pm her


I did talk to her privately, but can't add a lot. I do know one extremely nice dog (a TOP agility Havanese) from this breeder). But I have no personal experience with the breeder at all.

Like you, I suggested trusting her gut. There may be absolutely NOTHING wrong with either the puppy or the breeder. But I REALLY value a good relationship with my breeders. That is more important to me than a specific puppy. I'd be reluctant to take a puppy from a breeder I didn't feel comfortable with, no matter if they had the best reputation in the world and the puppy looked like it would be a Westminster winner.

I'm not saying ANYTHING negative about the breeder or puppy... I just don't know. It's the relationship that worries me.


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## malkates (Feb 26, 2018)

Karen - I wasn't sure exactly how to PM you back but think I did. I'm thanking you and Dave and in and out of worry. I do like the breeder. She's not as tech savvy as most people I know but I try not to hold it against people over 65 who don't text or respond to emails quickly. I've been vacillating about where to get a puppy, what kind of puppy, from whom and so forth for several months now and so my partner and our best friends are all ready to lock me up. In fact the other night at dinner they said "Enough of this! It's road trip time....we are going to drive to Dallas to get that puppy!" (It's a twelve hour drive and they were serious). I'm sure my vet will say he can't make a comment about okay or not without seeing this puppy. I think I have to calm down and just go through with this. If he's tiny...well, not the worst thing. I hope.


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

The reason I would not choose a smaller pup is that health is so important. Zoey has cherry eye, a failure of the tear duct and one of her hips does not rotate properly, she hops when she runs. I just think when choosing a pup choosing a more robust pup seems logical for health. Temperament and proper neurological stimulation are probably more important. If you imagine a whole basket of pups, after my experience with little Zoey, I would pick a larger one.

Most good breeders won't have a large basket of squirming beauties for you to choose from. You have chosen this breeder and she offered this pup which you wanted. Don't second guess yourself. Move forward confident that you family is on a wonderful adventure. You will love your little guy.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

malkates said:


> Karen - I wasn't sure exactly how to PM you back but think I did. I'm thanking you and Dave and in and out of worry. I do like the breeder. She's not as tech savvy as most people I know but I try not to hold it against people over 65 who don't text or respond to emails quickly. I've been vacillating about where to get a puppy, what kind of puppy, from whom and so forth for several months now and so my partner and our best friends are all ready to lock me up. In fact the other night at dinner they said "Enough of this! It's road trip time....we are going to drive to Dallas to get that puppy!" (It's a twelve hour drive and they were serious). I'm sure my vet will say he can't make a comment about okay or not without seeing this puppy. I think I have to calm down and just go through with this. If he's tiny...well, not the worst thing. I hope.


I wasn't saying that your vet could OK (or not) a puppy based on what you tell him about the puppy's size. What he MIGHT be able to tell you is what things could cause low weight, and whether or not there are tests that could confirm whether or not the puppy had one of these problems. If you got a small puppy and your vet could rule out heart or liver problems, and he seemed otherwise healthy you could just shrug your shoulders, accept him as a petite guy and enjoy him for who he is, without worry. &#128522;


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Do you have a contract with this breeder that covers any health issues that may come up? I would assume that a puppy this age must have had several vet visits by now and be fully vaccinated. I would want to see the health records and have them to take with you to your vet. My girl was on the small side but even she weighed about 3.9 lbs. at 16 weeks of age. I did worry about her being small and having something like a liver shunt that was stunting her growth. She weighed just under 6 lbs. at a year old but never had any health issues. At 18 months old or so her appetite improved and she did gain some more weight by the time she was three. She is somewhere between 7.5 - 8 pounds now at four years old. I hope everything turns out ok for you and your new puppy.


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## malkates (Feb 26, 2018)

Thank you Karen - I appreciate your comments and those of all the rest here. I think my vet, and my friends, just want me to get another dog already...The problem with having HAD two little dogs before is that you know how much you'll cherish them and how far you'll go to ensure their happiness and safety. So I'm much, much more nervous than I was 17 years ago when I got the first of my 2 puppies. I'm going to continue participating here well after I get this little guy. I'm sure we'll get a 2nd one next year. With much less ado.


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## malkates (Feb 26, 2018)

Molly...I know she has a contract but I haven't seen it. She did say it covers health issues and yes, this puppy has had several vet visits and all his shots. She also mentioned today in an email that she'll be bringing two sets of records, one for us and one for our vet. 

I think this is a relatively old fashioned breeder. She's very involved in the Toy Dog association of Dallas/Ft Worth, she's been breeding and showing for a long time. I first found her on a Google search in January and reached out. She said she's sure when I see him all my qualms will dissolve. (Or not). I've told the SO (who is flying to Dallas to get him, instead of me who hurt her back a week ago) to feel free to say "not for us..." and leave without the puppy if there are any 2nd thoughts upon seeing him. 

For reasons that I hope are not awful, this puppy is just small. I need to remember this: so am I! That's why I began my breeder search by asking people if they ever had puppies who grew to be on the small side, by which I meant 8-10 pounds. I'm small...I'm not young. when this puppy is 14 (as I hope he'll be) and needs to be carried to the car, I will be too old to pick up a 14 pound dog. So I started this by searching for a smallish dog. I didn't mean freakishly small, but within the standard but on the small side.

We believe in health insurance for our dogs and I'll just hope we don't need it often. Thank you so much for all this valuable input.


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## malkates (Feb 26, 2018)

I feel pretty confident that on the temperament side, this breeder is good. I think she understands that we are not people to sell a sickly puppy to (not that anyone is). 

I am one of these people who can worry a thing to death. I'll second guess myself until the moon is blue. So I'm going to take the advice to just quiet down, accept this decision and move forward. I'll post pictures and happy tales of fun in a week or two.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hope eveything works out. But I would get a vet checkup ASAP :smile2:


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## malkates (Feb 26, 2018)

Thank you and yes. Puppy arrives Friday end of day and our vet appointment is Monday morning. The breeder keeps assuring me she's introduced this puppy to many people in many environments (but not had him walking out in the streets). And has seen lots of dogs (was taken in a pet carrier to two dog shows and couple of puppy classes). I really appreciate the knowledge sharing here.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

malkates said:


> Thank you and yes. Puppy arrives Friday end of day and our vet appointment is Monday morning. The breeder keeps assuring me she's introduced this puppy to many people in many environments (but not had him walking out in the streets). And has seen lots of dogs (was taken in a pet carrier to two dog shows and couple of puppy classes). I really appreciate the knowledge sharing here.


:thumb:


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