# Eye color question



## JAEwton (Aug 7, 2007)

I am looking at purchasing a chocolate and white male to add to my family. He has green eyes. Would this be accepted for show? He is registered with the akc thru his litter. I know it says that chocolate ones can have a lighter color then the normal dark brown but does this mean the green ones would be allowed? 

Judy


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

From what I have learned here at the show lighter brown would be ok but green or amber would be a DQ.


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## JAEwton (Aug 7, 2007)

Thanks. That is what I thought but just wanted some imput. I have tried to contact the akc but no reply yet and it has been 4 days. 
Judy


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

If that is true, it is really too bad as that would be one gorgeous dog!!


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Actually incorrect eye color is not a DQ. 

"Disqualification
Height at withers under 8½ or over 11½ inches except that the minimum height range shall not apply to dogs or bitches under twelve months of age.
Complete absence of black ( or chocolate in the chocolate dog) pigmentation on the eyerims, nose or lips.
Coarse, wiry coat.
An atypical short coat on an adult. (Atypical refers to a smooth, flat coat with, or without furnishings.)"

The standard says...

"The eyes are dark brown, large, almond-shaped, and set rather widely apart. Dark eyes are preferred irrespective of coat color, although the chocolate colored dog may have somewhat lighter eyes."

So off colored eyes could be "faulted" or points taken off (as I understand it), but the dog can still compete.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Even if it isn't a technical DQ, many judges will pass you over for wins with green eyes, which may be even worse than getting DQs. You could spend a lot of money showing and never win (or worse yet, get second place in a class of one). Green eyes are something that most breeders avoid, and I'd be concerned if a breeder would tell you that dog is show potential. Just my two cents.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Not show potential no, but gee, how striking would that be? If anyone ever breeds a black dog with blue or green eyes, that one's MINE!! 

Of course, I like the combination of dark hair and blue or green eyes in people too!

Susan


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> Even if it isn't a technical DQ, many judges will pass you over for wins with green eyes, which may be even worse than getting DQs. You could spend a lot of money showing and never win (or worse yet, get second place in a class of one). Green eyes are something that most breeders avoid, and I'd be concerned if a breeder would tell you that dog is show potential. Just my two cents.


I gotta agree with that! If you're looking for a dog to show, this wouldn't be a great choice.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I also think it's true about the showing, but just like Susan, I love lighter eyes on a dog! 

That reminds me, anyone here from Dusty's mom lately?? Been a while....


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

I'm still around! I've just been busy. We were on vacation in CA for 10 days (Yosemite, Monterey, Pismo Beach, Santa Cruz, etc). Dusty didn't come on this trip, but entertained some friends of ours who absolutely adore her. 
The kids started school this week, and a couple of them have been mildly sick. 
Dusty's eyes are kind of a hazel color. We think they are really pretty. I found a decent photo if you can see the color past all the hair in front of her eyes, in spite of the barette my daughter stuck in her hair!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I LOVE LOVE LOVE those eyes~!!! How unique!


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Wow, they are like cat eyes. Very pretty. 
I figure there are enough dogs born that match the standard for those who like to show their dogs but thankfully there are also the beautiful oddities for us pet owners. Think of Rufus' beautiful blue eye. I wouldn't change that for the world.

Susan


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

If what I understood is correct, the green color in a chocolate hav comes from the chocolate hav also having the fading gene (which turns black silver) and often causes the dog to lose the brown pigment in the nose (turns back pink) after a time. I am still learning all this so it is my interpretation of what I heard. I am not sure if a chocolate with green/amber eyes ever keeps their brown pigmentation on the nose.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I just love Dusty's eyes......and Green eyed Havs! 

Hmm..I have Green eyes, so yeah.......they rock! eace: 

But, I would also steer clear of a "show" dog with green eyes, You would most likely run into atleast a few judges that wouldn't award it.  I would probably get a black, cream/white, or black and white parti.

I would love to adopt a red Hav. SOOOO.....if any of you breeder have one...Ahem! Think of ME! hehe.

Kara


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

_"I would love to adopt a red Hav. SOOOO.....if any of you breeder have one...Ahem! Think of ME! hehe"_

Not if I can get to him before you do, Kara !!! hehehe 

What a great shot of Dusty's face!! She's just gorgeous. GREAT to have you back ! I knew it had been a while.


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

*Breeding Chocolates are tricky*

Breeding chocolates is tricky. Some will keep the color and some wont. The sables usually loose it. I agree the green/hazel eyes are very beautiful and I like them but I wouldnt put one in the show ring. I have some now and I wish I could keep them all. They are beautiful! The little guy in the picture has green eyes. The flash didnt take to his green eyes so well but they are green.


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## chrismom (Jun 22, 2007)

I have seen chocolates with very dark pigment as adults that also had very light eyes, strange combination, but i have seen it happen


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## Doggie Nut (Oct 20, 2006)

I love the chocolates and the green eyes....guess I am partial since I have green eyes too!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Chocolate havs with green eyes rock!! 

That coming from a tan girl with green eyes


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

brandy said:


> Breeding chocolates is tricky. Some will keep the color and some wont. The sables usually loose it. I agree the green/hazel eyes are very beautiful and I like them but I wouldnt put one in the show ring. I have some now and I wish I could keep them all. They are beautiful! The little guy in the picture has green eyes. The flash didnt take to his green eyes so well but they are green.


Brandy, did you show last weekend? Since there were three shows right in your backyard, it would make for a very convenient of not needing to drive far. (I didn't get to go since I was at the National.) I love when we get shows right in our own "backyard" so to speak. 

Most of the breeders here share registered names and links to health testing on both parents when they say they have a litter. Since this topic started as an inquiry about someone wanting a chocolate and you are letting us know that you have some, would you care to share your information? I'd love to look at the OFA testing and check out the pedigrees. Thanks!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

brandy said:


> Breeding chocolates is tricky. Some will keep the color and some wont. The sables usually loose it. I agree the green/hazel eyes are very beautiful and I like them but I wouldnt put one in the show ring. I have some now and I wish I could keep them all. They are beautiful! The little guy in the picture has green eyes. The flash didnt take to his green eyes so well but they are green.


Brandy,

Your puppies are ADORABLE!  Thanks for sharing... WE love puppy pictures.

Kara


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## aradelat (Jun 13, 2007)

They are pretty eyes. Pablo's are hazel too, but a bit darker. I guess that would harm him in competition. But I think they are beautiful!!!


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

*this is off the subject but ok...*



Havtahava said:


> Brandy, did you show last weekend? Since there were three shows right in your backyard, it would make for a very convenient of not needing to drive far. (I didn't get to go since I was at the National.) I love when we get shows right in our own "backyard" so to speak.
> 
> Most of the breeders here share registered names and links to health testing on both parents when they say they have a litter. Since this topic started as an inquiry about someone wanting a chocolate and you are letting us know that you have some, would you care to share your information? I'd love to look at the OFA testing and check out the pedigrees. Thanks!


Actually my posting was not to give a shout out about having a litter. And the person who posted this has already gotten a chocolate,or so I thought because I found this article a ways back and was pretty sure they had another posting somewhere where they had gotten their baby. I simply am enjoying the forum and the information and experiences shared. No matter how much we may think we know I feel there is always more to learn and all types of people we can learn from. No I didnt get to go to the show. My son has been very ill and in and out of the emergency room with all sorts of horrible blood tests,poking and prodding. He actually turned 4 this week and I have been struggling to get him back to good health to enjoy his 4th birthday. I have two puppies I will be showing in Conformation when they get a little older (one is mine and the ohter is a puppy I sold. My older boy is going to give the agility ring a whirlwind . My children (of not the fur kind) are too young for me to travel to shows or to be able to burry my self in showing. Im not so sure I will get too serious about conformation showing anyway because I have only met one other local breeder that is nice and helplful enough to offer any kind of guidence or advice, showing dogs is a new thing to me. All the others have taken shoot first and ask questions later approach with me. I'm not into all the gossip and clicky crap or the I'm better than them. I left that in High School. But the agility crowd seems pretty fun and more laid back. No offensense to the breeders on here that show in conformation. I dont know you except one I have spoken with she was nice and offered help when my youngsters are ready.


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

Thanks Kara, I think so too,not that I'm partial or anything ound: I like to share pictures and my love for these little fluffs with others who have the same passion, glad I found this forum!


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

brandy said:


> I like to share pictures and my love for these little fluffs with others who have the same passion, glad I found this forum!


 We all love our fur babies here. We are just a bunch of happy Crazy Dog Ladies and Gentlemen, as our friends and family like to call us, but we know they are just jealous of our babies.

I'm glad you found this forum too, we can never see too many pictures and we really don't see enough of the chocolate ones.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

> Actually my posting was not to give a shout out about having a litter. And the person who posted this has already gotten a chocolate,or so I thought because I found this article a ways back and was pretty sure they had another posting somewhere where they had gotten their baby. I simply am enjoying the forum and the information and experiences shared. No matter how much we may think we know I feel there is always more to learn and all types of people we can learn from. No I didnt get to go to the show. My son has been very ill and in and out of the emergency room with all sorts of horrible blood tests,poking and prodding. He actually turned 4 this week and I have been struggling to get him back to good health to enjoy his 4th birthday. I have two puppies I will be showing in Conformation when they get a little older (one is mine and the ohter is a puppy I sold. My older boy is going to give the agility ring a whirlwind . My children (of not the fur kind) are too young for me to travel to shows or to be able to burry my self in showing. Im not so sure I will get too serious about conformation showing anyway because I have only met one other local breeder that is nice and helplful enough to offer any kind of guidence or advice, showing dogs is a new thing to me. All the others have taken shoot first and ask questions later approach with me. I'm not into all the gossip and clicky crap or the I'm better than them. I left that in High School. But the agility crowd seems pretty fun and more laid back. No offensense to the breeders on here that show in conformation. I dont know you except one I have spoken with she was nice and offered help when my youngsters are ready.


Brandy, if you're ever interested, I'd be glad to work with you on showing. I find it to be a lot of fun, even when my dogs get beat. We are really, really fortunate to have a lot of shows in our area.

And a lot of people bring their kids too, so feel free to bring yours as well. Many people end up getting their kids involved in showing also. My daughter has some junior showmanship, but she prefers to be in the "real" conformation ring in the main competition. It's addictive.

Drop me an email or PM anytime.

By the way, I came back to add that you may be surprised by the Northern California Havanese people (breeders, handlers, owners). We're generally a very warm, friendly bunch. There is a lunch in a few weeks at one of the breeder's homes if you'd like to meet some people in the club as well as those who just want to attend. It is open to any Havanese homes. I can give you more info if you'd like.


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> Brandy, if you're ever interested, I'd be glad to work with you on showing. I find it to be a lot of fun, even when my dogs get beat. We are really, really fortunate to have a lot of shows in our area.
> 
> And a lot of people bring their kids too, so feel free to bring yours as well. Many people end up getting their kids involved in showing also. My daughter has some junior showmanship, but she prefers to be in the "real" conformation ring in the main competition. It's addictive.
> 
> ...


That is a very kind offer and I must say very surprising. So long as you all dont plan on eating me for lunch :croc: just kidding :biggrin1: I will be going to San Fran in a few weeks to deliver one of my precious girls to a wonderful friend. Maybe I can stop in and meet you and your gang. PM if you want to talk about it more.eace:


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

brandy said:


> Im not so sure I will get too serious about conformation showing anyway because I have only met one other local breeder that is nice and helplful enough to offer any kind of guidence or advice, showing dogs is a new thing to me. All the others have taken shoot first and ask questions later approach with me.


Brandy,
I am sorry to hear that other breeders have been rude to you. I am not trying to make excuses for rudeness, but would like to offer another perspective to the situation. This isn't applying just to you, so please don't be offended.

When a person comes along in any breed and starts breeding dogs (cats, horses, etc) just to breed, without showing their dogs, or doing agility first, or health testing, they tend to wonder what is the reason they are breeding. Whether a person is breeding dogs, cats, horses, etc. the expectation from society is that breeding shouldn't occur unless it is to better what is being bred. The over-population of unwanted animals is so high, that most states are coming up with such ridiculous laws to try and stop breeding of all animals. Because Havanese is such a wonderful breed, they are now being mass produced by puppy mills. Breeding without health testing is not a good thing for our breed. I am not saying you are a puppy mill, just giving an example. I assume you health test your breeding dogs/bitches and that is wonderful. I too encourage you to come to some of our club events or attend a couple of dog shows. As a member of a club, whether it be local or national, the code of ethics of most clubs, state that members are required to "protect" the breed. At times I know some become over zealous and can be rude and ugly to other's who they feel are not possibly doing this. Once they learn that a person is in fact doing, or wants to learn how to do what is in the best interest of the breed, they are more accepting.

I invite you, along with Kimberly and all the other Havanese exhibitor's in N. California, to come and join us. We have fun, learn from one another, share idea's and support one another. We will be having a dinner, on September 1, 2007 in Grass Valley at a members home after the dog show in Grass Valley. Bring your Havanese and the whole family for that matter. Let either Kimberly or I know so we can let the hostess know for preparation purposes. After all, we all want to be breeding healthy, happy Havanese and what better way to do it then with people who have the same philosophy as you do. <grin> We also will be having an event in October that your children might enjoy also. We will be having a costume party for the Havanese. Many families find that showing dogs is a great family activity. AKC encourages it and even has scholorships available to teens that participate in juniorshowmanship.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

brandy said:


> That is a very kind offer and I must say very surprising. So long as you all dont plan on eating me for lunch :croc: just kidding :biggrin1: I will be going to San Fran in a few weeks to deliver one of my precious girls to a wonderful friend. Maybe I can stop in and meet you and your gang. PM if you want to talk about it more.eace:


Even better is that I'll be in Santa Rosa on Monday for the last OFA health tests on one of my bitches. I have a few opportunities to meet that day if you want. I'll be on S.R. Ave, near the Costco.

And I was a little bummed to read your "very surprising" comment. Once you get to meet me, you'll see I am a very friendly sort of gal.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

brandy said:


> That is a very kind offer and I must say very surprising. So long as you all dont plan on eating me for lunch


Brandy- I can say from personal experience that Kimberly is one of the kindest, most helpful and knowledgeable breeders in the business. I'm so fortunate to have one of her puppies. You have nothing to fear from her offer to help you. She's the best!


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> Even better is that I'll be in Santa Rosa on Monday for the last OFA health tests on one of my bitches. I have a few opportunities to meet that day if you want. I'll be on S.R. Ave, near the Costco.
> 
> And I was a little bummed to read your "very surprising" comment. Once you get to meet me, you'll see I am a very friendly sort of gal.


I use Dr. Popkins too. Most breeders do even when they have to travel for many hours to see him. Being in the Veterinary field as long as I have you learn who is good and who to stay away from. He has been around forever and I love him. I'm lucky to have him so close! In fact he just did a c-section on one of my girls and spayed her at the same time. She was just not good at the whole breeding thing but she went out with a bang and gave me only puppy but it was a black and white irish pied extremely flashy little girl! (She was spoken for long before she was born). He is a gret vet and really knows his stuff. I'm actually taking one of my dogs for his round of "official" testing too during the same clinic but mine is later in Sept. because I have so much going on right now. Let me know what time you will be around there and I will see if we can meet up. My daughter has her first day back to school on Monday (1st grade) and Im signing my son up for pre-school and have a dentist appointment amongst other errands but I usually have at least one dog with me in the car so I could at least swing in and say HI. Let me know. 
Brandy


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

Kathy said:


> Brandy,
> We will be having a dinner, on September 1, 2007 in Grass Valley at a members home after the dog show in Grass Valley. Bring your Havanese and the whole family for that matter. Let either Kimberly or I know so we can let the hostess know for preparation purposes. After all, we all want to be breeding healthy, happy Havanese and what better way to do it then with people who have the same philosophy as you do. <grin> We also will be having an event in October that your children might enjoy also. We will be having a costume party for the Havanese. Many families find that showing dogs is a great family activity. AKC encourages it and even has scholorships available to teens that participate in juniorshowmanship.


 Thank you for the gracious offers. I would love to join you for some of those events but Grass Valley is about 3 hours away from me. So that unfortunetly wont work for me and my family. I would however love to come to some of your closer functions if you have them. Can you give me dates and info. Do you have a web site with all that or should I just contact you and Kimberly? 
~Brandy


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

> I use Dr. Popkins too.


Dr. Popkins? I don't know who that is. Do you mean Dr. Randall Popkin?

I'm actually going to another vet who specializes in OFA hip x-rays. The Golden Retriever clubs and another Labrador club said they only recommend two vets in California for their hips, one in Southern California, and one in Santa Rosa, so I've been going to him for the last two years. He does very nice, fast work and doesn't use anesthesia. It ends up being a five hour drive for me because of commute traffic, but it is definitely worth the while.

I hear you on the travel time to Grass Valley. Most of the events are definitely quite a drive, but if you can get the time to go to one, I hope you can. For future events and info, you can go to the club's web site and click the link called "Calendar". The October event is up in Yuba City, but you can combine a dog show (as an exhibitor, observer, and/or shopper ) along with the club activities and costume parade with your dog(s).


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## brandy (Jun 12, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> Dr. Popkins? I don't know who that is. Do you mean Dr. Randall Popkin?
> 
> I'm actually going to another vet who specializes in OFA hip x-rays. The Golden Retriever clubs and another Labrador club said they only recommend two vets in California for their hips, one in Southern California, and one in Santa Rosa, so I've been going to him for the last two years. He does very nice, fast work and doesn't use anesthesia. It ends up being a five hour drive for me because of commute traffic, but it is definitely worth the while.
> 
> I hear you on the travel time to Grass Valley. Most of the events are definitely quite a drive, but if you can get the time to go to one, I hope you can. For future events and info, you can go to the club's web site and click the link called "Calendar". The October event is up in Yuba City, but you can combine a dog show (as an exhibitor, observer, and/or shopper ) along with the club activities and costume parade with your dog(s).


Yes, I meant Dr. Randall Popkin...:brick: 
If your not using him then you must go to Redwood right down the street. Is that where you go? I might be able to pop in and say Hi if you let me know what time you'll be around.  
~Brandy


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

brandy said:


> Yes, I meant Dr. Randall Popkin...:brick:
> If your not using him then you must go to Redwood right down the street. Is that where you go? I might be able to pop in and say Hi if you let me know what time you'll be around.
> ~Brandy


Brandy, check your private messages for the time.


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