# Deposits for puppies??



## Tom King

I wasn't sure what forum to put this on so just picked this one. We are currently carrying on several conversations with different people about this by email so I thought it should be publicly discussed.

It looks like some breeders require a deposit just to be put on a waiting list for a puppy. Others don't. I can't really come up with a good reason to require a deposit to be on a list unless the breeder just wants to lock the buyer to their program to make sure they only get a puppy from them. There might be other reasons and I would like to hear them.

We don't require a deposit until we know that we have the right puppy for the people on our lists. Only then because we have had a few people who seem to like to do all the correspondence necessary as if they are going to get a puppy but for one reason or another they never do and then we end up with a puppy past the optimum age to place. For people buying their second puppy from us we never require a deposit. Other breeders (that we know and send buyers to when we don't have the right puppy in a litter for them) do it the same way we do.

Any discussion?


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## irnfit

As you said, I can understand a deposit once a dog is matched up with their forever home. I don't like the idea of a non-refundable deposit, either. What is your feeling on this?


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## Havtahava

I've had many people ask if they could put down a deposit and I won't take them - at least not yet. When the puppies are five weeks old, I have asked for deposits to be made at that time and I will refund it if I cannot provide a puppy for some unforseen reason.

I can't remember the details, but something with California law made me avoid taking any deposits until the puppies are a bit older.

My main reason for allowing a deposit to be received at all is for the buyer's peace of mind. I want them to know I'm serious about working towards finding a puppy that is right for them.

The main uncertainty is that I am not comfortable pairing up puppies to homes until they have gone through their temperament testing (7 weeks old) and conformation evaluations (8 weeks old). I try to be very clear with those on my waiting list. If a particular litter requires involvement of another breeder (e.g. stud owner getting pick), then we have one more reason to wait.

I went on a slight tangent there. 

My requested deposit is 1/4 of the purchase price of the puppy.


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## Tom King

Yeah Kimberly, that's the way we do deposits too, but we've had some people tell us lately that some breeders are requiring a deposit just to be put on a waiting list??????????? 

Nonrefundable doesn't sound quite right either. We just require the deposit so that we know that they are really serious as you would be surprised at some of the people that contact us as if they want to get a puppy but evidently have some other agenda.


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## Havtahava

Tom King said:


> ...we've had some people tell us lately that some breeders are requiring a deposit just to be put on a waiting list???????????


I think that is nuts. Why would anyone need a deposit ahead of time?


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## irnfit

I have seen several websites that state "non-refundable deposit". One of them is in Rhode Island and advertises everywhere.


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## JodiM

I've seen the non-refundable deposit thing too, but it's been awhile.

Another breeder was talking to me about it as well, commenting on how strange it is to have a breeder take a deposit and then refuse to refund. (Even if a pup isn't place because of the breeder)


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## Havtahava

In some states, a non-refundable deposit is illegal and I would assume they would lose in Small Claims court. 

This is one of the reasons it is always good to do your homework first. I have no idea about any of these breeders, so my comments are generic, but I encourage people to research the breeder BEFORE you ever look at puppy pictures. Pictures seem to help logic drain out of the mind - me included.


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## ama0722

When looking for our next dog, we were also looking at Coton breeders. I found a lot of them make you put a deposit down as soon as they have a litter. I think it does give the buyer and seller a piece of mind as they are going to get a puppy, especially if on a waiting list for awhile. I think most breeders didn't accept a deposit until they had a puppy for you.

Amanda


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## LuvMyHavanese

I am not a breeder but I am a customer. I can understand a 'refundable' deposit(in case one cant be matched etc.) but if you have a litter of, say, 5 puppies and you have 10 people wanting puppies, i personally would like to give a deposit to know that i will be given priority in getting a puppy.
Plus i would think, as a breeder, you would not want to turn away potential buyers for someone who is really not serious about getting a pup. If your given a deposit, i would think they would really want a puppy. Thats just my opinion.


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## juliav

A friend of mine put a deposit on a field Gordon Setter a year ago and he is still waiting. But it's the only breeder that he wants his pup from so he doesn't mind waiting. Personally, I think it's crazy, but that's just me.


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## LuvMyHavanese

I spoke to one breeder who did require a deposit just to be put on a waiting list. And her waiting list was 1 1/2 years! i thought that was ridiculous. I just meant that if you find a breeder who you like & is expecting puppies soon. Thats when i dont mind giving a deposit. But to give one 'in case' they get pregnant in a year or two, no thanks.
But, again, i am not a breeder. I just want breeders to know i am serious about getting a pup & to not forget about me!


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## Havtahava

LuvMyHavanese said:


> Plus i would think, as a breeder, you would not want to turn away potential buyers for someone who is really not serious about getting a pup. If your given a deposit, i would think they would really want a puppy. Thats just my opinion.


I've re-written my response a couple of times so pardon the choppy thoughts.

I'll just suffice it to say that even though I've had to turn away at least 12 buyers for my current litter, I know that even though I don't take deposits ahead of time, these homes are quite serious. I am willing, and have offered, to help find them Havanese from other breeders. A person who keeps in contact, asks questions about my dogs (and others), learns about screening breeders and truly wants to find a good match for them is highest on my list. Even when I can't produce enough puppies to satisfy all the people looking, I'm willing to match them with breeders who can - even if they aren't local.

I think I've gotten off track from Tom's original question, but I just felt the need to respond to the comment about being serious.

I already have a waiting list for my next litter (not planned until summer - assuming all health testing passes) and inquiries into the next one after that (winter). I still won't take deposits and will help them to find another puppy if that is better suited to their timeline.

I'd rather have the relationship and open communication than the check.


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## MopTop Havanese

With my last litter, I didn't accept any deposits....but one family left me a check on the counter (without me knowing) when they came for their second visit! So I just hung the check on the fridge until they came 3 weeks later to pick up their puppy.
I have told the potential families for this litter that I don't promise any puppy to any family until they are at least 6 weeks old. I want to know personalities/temperments etc before I pick families for them (although with the last litter, the puppies pretty much picked their families, and they were perfect matches!)


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## Missy

oops, I'm pretty sure Jas came from that breeder in R I. I have heard through the grape-vine (after the fact) that it is a puppy mill. 

In defense to the breeder and the practice of taking a deposit-- it is non refundable, but if a match isn't made they keep it for as long as it takes to make a match between puppy and buyer. 

I don't mind giving a deposit- to secure a puppy and cement my interest in the mind of the breeder. I am not a breeder either, but I understand the rationale that if there is not a deposit more people would fill up the waiting list and possibly back down. 

I can see it from both sides


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## Cosmosmom

I did not put a deposit down with Cosmo .. I put down a $100.00 with Asta ..
She said she would have waved it but since she was the actual breeder this time just getting the pick of the litter and he was to be mine .. She said the woman wanted to make sure everyone was serious .. 
I got Ahnold from Kimberly and she did not require a deposit for him . I fell in love and took him home . He is a wonderful little guy - 
We are all so happy he is part of our family ..


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## Laurief

I also can see it from both sides but I think that once the litter is born, it is a good idea for a breeder to take a deposit. I always put down 1/3 of the cost to my breeder to reserve a certain pup. If she didnt take it from me, then I backed out last minute, she has to then find another owner. I just think it is security for the breeder. I do NOT agree with taking a deposit on a future litter though. I feel they should just email interested parties once the litter is born and then whoever comes first, gets it. While you are waiting for the litter to be born, you might find another pup, or your circumstances may change & then they have your money.


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## irnfit

I didn't put down a deposit with either dog. Everything happened so fast with them. I saw their pictures and the next week went to see them (and took them home), so the breeders waived the deposit. They know once I saw those faces, I would not leave without them.


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## Leeann

I did not need to put a deposit down until pups were born and my pup was picked out. During my research I also seen alot of people looking for a deposit to be put on a waiting list, I basically walked away and kept looking. If I was looking for a pup from a specific breeding and wanted to garentee first pick of the litter I would have definetley put a deposit down if required.


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## JodiM

I just have to say, after reading the responses here, we have some great breeders on this board. (although, I already knew that - it is just amazing to see how responsible and thorough our breeders really are.)


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## Kathy

Havtahava said:


> I can't remember the details, but something with California law made me avoid taking any deposits until the puppies are a bit older.
> 
> Kimberly,
> I agree with EVERYTHING you stated and do the same, except I don't take any deposit. In California, it is showing a committment to sell. A breeder was sued by a buyer from California because the breeder in another state took a deposit on a puppy, then changed her mind about selling the puppy to this buyer as she felt it wouldn't be a good home. The buyer sued, and won, as she showed she (the buyer) would be loosing a lot of future "potential" income as she couldn't breed the bitch since she wasn't getting her. This breeder had a good contract too.


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## Havtahava

Kathy, thank you for the food for thought. I had a lawyer review my contracts, but I should probably consult on the deposits now too.


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## Tom King

We would never run into that problem since we would never sell a female to breed to someone we didn't know anyway and in that case there would not be any need for a deposit.

Even the few males we sell to potential show homes are sold with a limited, to start with, and only upon our evaluation later can the registration be changed.

The main reason there are too many irresponsible breeders now, and also the reason the health statistics have gone downhill, is that too many people have sold dogs with unlimited registrations.


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## Rita

I was put on a waiting list but just was lucky at the timing. After the pups were 6 weeks old she sent out additional info requesting a deposit. The deposit which was 1/4 of the total price was 1/2 refundable if the buyer backed out. If the breeder backed out then you would get the entire deposit back. This was all stated in the contract which you had to sign and send back with your deposit.

I tried to double check this but I believe the breeder even stated that a deposit didn't guarantee a dog because placement was based on the best fit. However, you would get your deposit back and remain on the list for the next litter.

I would have a big problem giving someone money just to be on a list. I think that would send up a red flag with cash flow problems or something. Most good breeders have so many people inquiring that they wouldn't worry about placing the puppy with someone else. 

Tom, these people paying money to be on waiting list, do they receive any contract or receipt for their payment? How would you ever prove that you made the payment besides a copy of the cashed check. That just seems really strange to me.


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## Kathy

Tom King said:


> The main reason there are too many irresponsible breeders now, and also the reason the health statistics have gone downhill, is that too many people have sold dogs with unlimited registrations.


Tom, I agree!


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## Greg

I ask for a deposit once I know I have a puppy for a particular buyer. Once that's done........then I ask for a $500 deposit. I do so because I know every puppy buyer is talking to half a dozen other breeders and I need them to make a committment before I start turning dozens of other potential buyers away. 

Mine are always refundable.........and why wouldn't they be?


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## Havtahava

Greg, I think some breeders are afraid that the buyer will find a better dog and back out.



> Even the few males we sell to potential show homes are sold with a limited, to start with, and only upon our evaluation later can the registration be changed.


Tom, I haven't sold to any show homes, but that's something new to me. That would certainly add some protection to your breeding program. Interesting!


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## Greg

Havtahava said:


> Greg, I think some breeders are afraid that the buyer will find a better dog and back out.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Or maybe they are "color" buyers and see something more the color they want.............Since I tell everyone they can have any color they want as long as it is black.........and I do so up front...........it's never been an issue.


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## MopTop Havanese

Greg~
I have a question about your "my deposits are always refundable".
Do you mean if you don't have a puppy for that particular person? Then you will return that deposit? 
What if a family puts a $500 deposit down on one of your 6 week old puppies. But then, when that puppy is 9 weeks old (and you have turned down 15 other families for this same puppy) the family has changed their mind (for whatever reason) and decides to not get the puppy from you. Do you refund the deposit back to that family?
I am a little confused.....why take a deposit from anyone if they can change their mind and get the $$ back anyway?
Your thoughts??


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## Greg

I would give their deposit back.............I've had them back out before for health reasons.............no biggie. I get enough people contacting me on a daily basis that it isn't much of a hassle.


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## Cosmosmom

When I got Asta I paid a $100.00 deposit which I assumed was non refundable . I was guaranteed a puppy as it was the her puppy pick of the litter .. She had the stud .. 
At that time I was not talking to another breeder and I would not have either .. We never signed a contract - it was all on good faith and she did not let me down .. We did it the old fashioned way ..
I got a wonderful dog and we were so grateful to her .... I wish he was still a member of our family .
In those days there were not as many breeders and it was hard to find one on the west coast ..


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## Havtahava

I can vouch for Greg's refund policy. I have one of his dogs. 

One thing you can always count on with Sedoso Havanese is the integrity... and he didn't pay me to say that either. LOL!

My deposits are refundable too. Why not?

Actually, in California, you'd probably have a hard time winning the claim if a buyer tried to sue you to get their refund back. It's not worth the hassle to me and I have a long list of fabulous homes on my waiting list.


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## Tom King

We do deposits like Greg too. We didn't use to require deposits at all but the number of people who will talk like they are going to get a puppy right up until the time for them to come and then disappear has increased to the point that it causes extra trouble for us getting pups settled into their new homes. The deposit is asked for just so that we are sure that the people are serious about wanting a pup. It's refundable for whatever reason.

I started this thread though about another kind of deposit because we had gotten several emails asking if we required a deposit to just be put on our waiting list. This seemed crazy to me but we did find out that some breeders actually do ask this. Still seems crazy to me.


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## irnfit

I don't think asking for a deposit is a bad thing, especially once you have made a final choice as to who is getting which dog. I just don't understand why it would be "non-refundable", as some breeders have requested. I know it's none of the breeders on the forum, but they are out there.


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## Rita

Tom. A deposit just to be on a waiting list with no puppies born is crazy to me too. I think I would run, run, run as fast as I could in the opposite direction.


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## Lilysplash I

When I was looking for my first Havanese, I lost my $250 deposit because the dog offered was not what I was looking for. The breeder was abusive via email and said she would refund when the dog was placed. Fair enough! She never has refunded my money and it has been about 7 months. This California breeder has my money and I received no dog from her. It still makes me angry!

I believe all deposits should be refundable if it is all about the dog.


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## Havtahava

Lilysplash, I am pretty sure that the law requires the breeder to refund your deposit if they did not provide a dog. Did you sign a contract for the deposit that said it was non-refundable?


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## Laurief

Yikes, did you sign a contract that said that?? That just does not sound right to me.


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## irnfit

There are a lot of "breeder" sites that state NON-REFUNDABLE deposits. I found so many of these when I was looking for Kodi. If there is such a great demand for these dogs and you have to be put on a waiting list, why would they require a deposit to be non-refundable?


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## Lilysplash I

No, it said that I would be in agreement to wanting the dog offered or something to that effect. It has been some months ago so have forgotten the specifics. If it was nonrefundable, she would not have said she would refund and then did not. She also stated on her web site that this particular puppy was sold so that was when I asked for my refund thinking she had sold it without alerting me and I was not interested anyway. She replied that Yes, it was sold to me. I was flabbergasted and told her that I had not agreed to this dog. She then wrote me back in a rather abusive way and said she would send the refund my money when it was placed which she did not do.


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## lfung5

When i got my 3rd it was important that he have a submissive mild mannered temperament. I was looking at 2 pups under 1 week old. One breeder had a non refundable deposit and the other said if the temperament was not a good fit, she would refund my deposit. I went with the second breeder who was willing to refund my deposit. Because temperament was so important, I didn't want to have to wait for another liter the be born if it turned out the pup would not be a good fit. 

The breeder was right on the money. The pup was just as she described, very easy going lover!

I have 3 havanese and no one asked for a deposit to be on the waiting list, but my guys were already born.


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## TnTWalter

*Just wanted to say...*

that when I was new here, so many people were so helpful to me to find a dog. I couldn't believe the amount of pms I received, especially shocked about those from breeders [Tom & Kimberly come to mind] who just wanted to help me find the right fit, whether or not it benefited them. I was really impressed. Those are the type of people that truly care about the quality of the breed.

And I had several friends on this board [you know who you all are] who really helped me when I was offered more questionable dogs. As you all remember, I had my heart set on an older puppy....my patience got the best of me. LOL.

I did put a deposit on Winston. I'm not even sure if she required one. How sad is that?? I just knew that I didn't want her selling him to anyone else while I thought about it. I don't know what I was thinking. Because, really what if I changed my mind? I wrote here a check for HALF of the price. DUH.

People warn you not to bring your checkbook [I ignored them of course]. I just knew I would be stronger! LOL. So glad I had done the research BEFORE I walked through the door, because once you see and hold the dog, you're DONE. LOL.

:biggrin1:


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## Havtahava

Trish, I think we could all feel your eagerness! :laugh: I'm glad things worked out so well for you and Winston.


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