# biting problem / looking for placement : (



## JoannAllen (Jan 29, 2008)

Hello we are new here.
Our family has a Havanese,( Poochinni ) who is three years old, 14 lbs., happy, extremely healthy, playful, and beautifully house trained uses Pee Pee Pads. We have recently moved, while the house was being prepared to be place on the market, we made thoughtless changes ( moved his bed, closed his Kennel, changed our bedroom) He began to have erections. He also snapped at my husband’s pants leg and bit his finger when he tried to take away a raw hide. He was taken to the vet and we had conversations with the behavior specialist from the University of Penn. They explained the many changes that we had made where confusing to him.
Since then we have moved, he seem to have adjusted well. This past week he began to have erections and on Wednesday while he was lying on the bed I walked passed him then I pet his head and back .He was very still ,when he did not respond with a wag of a tail (as usual) I leaned in and asked him if he was OK? Out of the blue he jumped up and bit my face……………………..This was unexpected and unacceptable behavior. Possibly he believes he is the Alpha. We do not feel we are experienced enough to retrain him. This is NOT a dog for children. We have had him to the vet and they said that he seems to be ok. We need to find placement for him but we are afraid to take him to a shelter. Can anyone advise us on placement options for dogs with this sort of issue, or is there anyone who is experienced with training dogs that would be interested in adopting him. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!


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## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

I am very sorry you ALL are going thru this. Where do you live? How long has it been since you moved? Is it possible he just hasn't had time to adjust?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Feel free to contact Havanese Rescue about any behavior problem, they will assist with behavior problems and in-take. There are volunteers all over the country.

http://www.havaneserescue.com/index.php?option=com_contact&task=view&contact_id=5&Itemid=


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

It sounds like he is scared with all the changes and is trying to get some control on the situation. I'm sure you can find help here if you wish. You can also contact a behavioral specialist on your own. Perhaps even speak with someone from HRI (Havanese Rescue). There are options available, don't worry. :hug: HRI's website is here http://www.havaneserescue.com/ . We have members here who work in rescue as well. How long has this being going on for? Is your Poochini neutered? Do I understand right that you are in your new home now?


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi Joann, welcome to the forum. I wish you had found us under happier circumstances. If you do decide to place him up for adoption I am sure people here will have some great ideas and options havanese-rescue.org for one.

But can I ask a few questions? has all this change been really recent? Has Poochini been neutered? Have you had him since he was a puppy? I am not a trainer- and forgive me if I am assuming things you may have already tried. But maybe if you could try to make him feel more secure while also re-asserting yourselves as alpha (your whole family) you can work through this. I think maybe starting new routines with him, walks- feedings-- bed times in his new home may go a long way--- also if he has not been neutered yet -- that may help too. 

I am sure others will have a lot of good ideas too. Good luck and keep us posted. Poochini sure is cute and I really love his name.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I'm SO sorry to hear about your Poochini's bad behavior. You are right, his behavior is unacceptable. I think you are making a wise decision to find someone with experience to help retrain him and these issues he is having.

I'm certain Havanese Rescue will be able to help you place him.

Something is in the air this week with all these threads on aggression problems. 

Kara


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Joann,

Is Poochinni fixed?


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

I am sorry to hear that things are not going well for you...but I can tell that you want the best for him. I am sure someone here will guide you in the right direction...you have gotten great advice already. Hope things will be better for you and him. Take care...hugs from all of us here!!!


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## mom23girls (Nov 26, 2007)

Best of luck to you Joann. I'm sure this must be a tough time for you & your family. I hope you can find someone who can help you. I'm so sorry to hear about your problems. Poochini is just adorable!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Joanne, I am so sorry for your situation. Biting you is completely unacceptable. I think your assessment of the situation is totally correct… No children and experienced owners. I work with people moving all the time. We change situations for the dogs to make the home more sellable, I help with fencing/leash law issues when they move in. I have never had an owner say this was upsetting, unsettling or noticed a total change in the dog’s personality because of the move, With most dogs as long as their family is around they may become a little more clinging, but they are fine. The Havanese Rescue would be the only way to go.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Joann,
Welcome to the Forum. I'm so sorry to hear about the problems you are having with Poochinni. Is he neutered? He's three years old. Have the problems only just begun? Have you had him since he was a puppy?
Please, please contact Havanese Rescue. There are a whole lot of helpful people there who have dealt with any number of difficulties. 

I wish you the best of luck. I know these behavior problems are not easy for you.
:hug:


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

Joanne. I am so sorry you are having this problem. As Amanda stated please go to http://www.havaneserescue.com

If you took him to the vet, did they run tests? For such a change in behavior, I was wondering if he had any illness or a brain tumor? Just a thought.

Good luck.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hello Joanne,

Welcome to the forum....
Have you contacted your breeder and informed them about all of this? Possibly they would try to re-home him??

Ryan


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## Rita (Jan 1, 2007)

Beamer said:


> Hello Joanne,
> 
> Welcome to the forum....
> Have you contacted your breeder and informed them about all of this? Possibly they would try to re-home him??
> ...


Good point Ryan. It may be in your contract that your breeder has to be notified.


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

I have to agree that this is not necessarily attributable to moving. We moved twice in 10 months. Once to a rented home after our home sold quickly and the second time to the home we were building. Our dog was very sensitive but had no problems - as long we we were there along with her familiar things she was fine. All dogs are different but I just can't see aggression as a result of moving.

I do wish you the best of luck; it must be heartbreaking for all of you. I hope you find help soon whether it be dealing with his problems or rehoming him.


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## JoannAllen (Jan 29, 2008)

*Thanks so much for all the responses.*

Hello Everyone,
Thanks so much for all the responses. We have had him since he was a puppy. He was purchased from "I Love Pets" In Media Pennsylvania. This may have been a mistake because I do not have the support of a breeder (but I just fell in love with him and that was that), and since I just moved I can't find his papers that would show who the breeder was. I have called them to try to see who the breeder is that they use but I haven't heard back from them. He is neutered and after he bit me last week we had him back to the vet to be checked over and they said that he seems like he appears to be in perfect health. We moved at the end of the summer, and I would have thought that he would have adjusted by now but things just seem to be getting worse. Thank you for telling me about Havanese Rescue, I will get there number and contact them ASAP.
Any advice that you all can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Many Many Thanks!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Joann, if you scroll up to Amanda's reply, that link is the direct link to the Havanese Rescue page that you'll want.

By the way, if he was laying on YOUR bed when he bit you, I would recommend that you need get him off the bed and keep him off even if it means shutting your door. He's putting himself on a higher level and asserting himself where he doesn't belong.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Joann, 
Have you done any obedience training with him? I beleive in a modified version of the "Nothing In Life Is Free" program (NILIF). You can google it but basically before he gets anything from you (food, affection, walk, etc.) he must do something for it. You might command him to sit before you put his food dish down or clip his leash on for a walk or even before you consent to play with him or give him affection. I don't go as far as not letting the dog go out the door first. It's easier for me, with my hands full of purse, car keys, leash and whatever, to let the dog go out before me but others will say that the dog should never go out a door before you do. I think your little one is in need of some behavioral training.
This may or may not be something you feel you can take on because it takes a lot of time. Changing a fear biting or startle biting behavior can take a long time and a lot of patience.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Joann, I had two more thoughts--- have you changed anything else in his life-- is he on a new food? new treats? if the change is that drastic it could be something going on-- did the vet take any tests? Is he aggressive or different then he was all the time or just when he is being "interupted" either by his bone being taken away or you invading what he perceived to be his space. Not that what he has done is acceptable but if you can isolate when he is doing it- perhaps re-training would not be as difficult as you think.

I know my first dog Jasper came alive when we started adding more carbs to his diet-- so these things can really have an effect. especially if you changed his food when everything else changed.

Also in the mean time try giving Poochini some "rescue remedy"- it is a flower based tincture that is supposed to help with anxiety. A lot of people give it to their dogs who have problems with car rides or thunderstorms. We gave it to our Jasper to help out of a depressive funk amazingly it worked. I give him 4 drops a day in a little yogurt. or you can just put it in Poochini's water.

here is a link but you can also get it at most human health food stores or Whole Foods

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...ubref=AA&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0009016000000


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## KristinFusco (Jun 5, 2007)

Hi Joanne,

When I read your email, I noticed that you said you took your dog up to UPENN for an evaluation. Do you live near UPENN? I am a grad student there and we live about 10 min. from campus. Have you had your dog evaluated by a behavioral specialist? I just started private lessons with a dog trainer from the AKC Philadelphia Obedience club to work on city leash behavior with both of my boys (we live on an extremely crowded block and my oldest Hav was very nervous when encountering other dogs on a leash in such confined quarters, so she has been helping us with that very successfully). In fact, the trainer I met with happens to work with a lot of larger breed dogs and she is used to the aggression issue. I can send you her contact information if you want. She has dealt with aggressive dogs and maybe she can help you. If you are contacting Havanese rescue, I completely understand, but I just thought I would throw an alternative out there. Sorry to be so frank, but if your Hav was purchased from a pet store, there is a good chance he did not receive proper socialization before he came to live with you and may have developed his issues then, so maybe a great trainer can help him with positive reinforcement and the implementation of a program to elevate your heirarchy over him.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

This dog has more problems than moving. It has been at least 4 months since late summer. He may be extremely spoiled and when he was inconvenienced by the move the family gave into him. He seems to have a total lack of respect for the owner. Obedience might get some control back but I'm not reading they want to continue with the dog.

With the erections I would question an undescended testical that was not removed. This in part could account for his strange behavior.

Please let us know how this works out.


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Welcome to the forum. I don't have any suggestions for you, other that what has already been offered, but best wishes in getting this worked out in a way that is best for you and Poochini.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I agree I think the decision has been made .. 
. I know there are a lot of people out there who are anxious to be Havanese Owners but they cannot afford the breed .
Havanese Rescue is probably your best bet as it seems like your trust and bond with this dog is broken ..


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## JoannAllen (Jan 29, 2008)

Again thank you everyone for all your suggestions. 
I have contacted rescue and am hoping that they will be able to foster him until he can be retrained and placed. We have never had the need (until now) for any obedience training. He has always been very well behaved. We had a consult with the behaviorist at University of Penn (we live about 40 minutes from there) who had said that the problem was most likely related to the move, but it has been quite a while since we moved now and things have gotten worse. He has slept with me all his life and now I am afraid of having him in the room with me. We love him and really want the best for him. I am just too afraid of being bitten again to trust him.

He was on the floor, and I bent down to check on him, and then he sprung up without warning and bit me. 

Thanks for the information on the rescue remedy I will try that while we are trying to place him.

I hope to hear from Rescue tomorrow I will let you know what they say.

Many Many Thanks To Everyone


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

There are signs that a dog will exhibit when it is stressed yawning is one licking its nose with its tongue or lying down and scratching .. 
The one clue that you had that something might have been off was that your dog was very still . This is a sign that a dog shows another dog that it has just met and means that it is assessing the situation and an attack might be possible .. He might have felt challenged in some way - staring directly in their eyes is sometimes taken as a challenge .. 
No one knows for sure why your dog did what he did .. I have been told that dogs especially males do not reach full maturation until they are three .
I believe this as I did notice when Asta turned three he was more assertive .. He was always a sweetie but his behaviour did ramp up a notch for a month or two . He growled at my husband when he was going to put him in the crate . He only did it once but it was just so unlike him .. Before he had never once growled at either one of us He seemed more possesive of me and he no longer liked to have sleepovers at Tulips house . He would run and get in his sherpa showing me he was ready to go - no more sleepovers thanks .. He used to love to stay with his buddy but no more .
I mentioned it to his petsitter who was a vet tech and she said it was due to this maturation phase at three years ..
You say he should have adjusted by now and maybe he should but have you adjusted to your new home or do you still have some unresolved problems that are creating stress . . ? Are you OK . These dogs are just so intuitive and senstive and pick up our energy .
I have seen it with Asta and Tulip and I saw it when I was sick recently the boys just did not get it why I was not that involved with them and Daddy was doing all the dog walking .. 
I think you will find the rescue remedy does help . It does not have a sedative or culmulative effect so you can use it when you feel it is needed . 
It works well in humans too .


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Joann.
So, how bad was the actual bite? Did he draw blood? 

Ryan


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Hi JoAnn,

I'm so sorry this happened to you.  Some dogs may find it threatening to have someone lean over them. Scout doesn't like it when my younger son does this and will let out a semi-pathetic warning growl...

I'm just checking in to see if you have heard from Rescue yet. If so, what did they say? I hope it all works out best for both you and your dog.


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## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

Did the havanese rescue find a foster family for Poochinni?


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2008)

Cosmosmom said:


> ..
> . I know there are a lot of people out there who are anxious to be Havanese Owners but they cannot afford the breed .
> ..


Just curious what is meant by this? Are you referring to people buying dogs or puppies from irresponsible breeders who do not socialize or breed for temperment? It sounded kind of harsh as if only socialites or though well off deserve the Havanese. Just curious of the comment....


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Kristy,
I think what she means is don't put an ad in the newspaper offering a deal for a dog with a behavior issue and maybe put the dog first and relinquish the little guy to rescue or someone who can offer the dog the help it deserves. 

We have also seen a lot of future hav owners looking for a good deal from a backyard breeder or petstore and the dog can often cost them a lot more than one from a reputable breeder. While the initial price tag seems high for havanese, we are lucky to have a lot of reputable breeder who put the testing and showing into the breed.

Just my 2 cents,

Amanda


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2008)

Ok Amanda, if that is what was meant then I understand.

A cheaper dog isn't necessarily a better deal when temperments and socialization are factors.

"Can't afford the breed" - you may get what you pay for. 

So in order to afford the breed, do it correctly with responsible breeders.

I gottcha ;-)


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Kristy- Also with rehoming, some people want to "get back what they paid for" so unfortunately, sometimes their little guy will just be sold to the next person who comes along. What happens is the best interest of the little neezer isn't put first.

Amanda


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

I wish we would get an update from Joanne. :ear:


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I just sent an email to Joanne. I will let you know if I hear back from her. I hope she was able to get help for Poochini.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Kristi, is your little Hav in your avitar a short-haired Hav? He/she is awfully cute.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2008)

Missy,

No, actually she isn't a Havanese - She is our only dog we have now... Miranda is 16 years young and around 14 lbs. - she is a American Eskimo mix- can you believe that? 

My sister's purebreed Eskimo was sidelined by a terrier mix and low and behold she had 6 puppies. I had to keep one ;-) 

She is actually a twin! The first 4 puppies where white or white and brown little fuballs. then 2 more came that were connected at the sac. both brown and black - Never heard of that before.

We are waiting a little while on a Havanese as she is lossing her bodily 'controls' and almost deaf and lossing her eyesight. She will be our only baby until the end ;-( But can't see a house without a dog. Hence, why I joined the forum to learn about these little fun creatures called the Havanese.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I sent an email to Joanne and did get a response from her daughter. I hope she won't mind me posting an update on here for her. Her daughter said they were in touch with rescue and they asked them to have bloodwork done to be sure that he was in good health. Everything came back okay so now they are waiting for placement.

My breeder is involved with rescue and lives in her area. I think I will drop her a note and ask her to keep an eye out for him.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Thanks for the update Karen. It's nice to hear things are going in the right direction for this little one and the family.


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

momof2 said:


> Missy,
> 
> No, actually she isn't a Havanese - She is our only dog we have now... Miranda is 16 years young and around 14 lbs. - she is a American Eskimo mix- can you believe that?
> 
> ...


sorry to hijack but wanted to say I joined this forum as my beagle Quincy had been diagnosed with cancer. It helped with the stress of it to plan for the future.

Welcome.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2008)

Off topic:

Thanks Trish,

I was hoping that posting opinion or comments on here even though I don't have a Havanese yet wouldn't cause any trouble.

I know she doesn't have long time left. On top of her ailing elements of hearing, sight, stiffness, she has a heart mumor (has had it for about 8 years but has gotten worse. I think that they labeled it at a stage 5 and they told me the next stage is heart failure. That was last summer. Having her for 16 years through good and bad, doesn't make it any easier to think of her leaving me. -- got choked up now...oh, so emotional. But the thought of a new hope of joy the fill the void is something that I think I will desire and just trying to do my homework so the impulse to buy a new puppy doesn't turn out to be a mistake.

We lost our other dog, Maggie, this past August, so the house will feel pretty empty when Miranda has passed. Yes, I have 2 younger children to keep me occupied, but there is just something about a dog that can make me smile when nothing else can.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Kristie,
Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear about your loss of Maggie and the health issues of your current pup. Our last dog was named Maggie. We miss her very much. I've always believed that the reason our dogs don't live as long as we do or as long as we would like them to is because there are more pups out there that need our love and who have love to give us. 
McKenna was born just a few days before our Maggie died back in 2004. I really think that in a way, she was meant for us. She healed our hearts.

Karen, thank you for the update on Joanne's pup. I was just thinking of him the other day.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

It is difficult when you realize that you dog is soon going to cross the rainbow bridge but devastating when they passs unexpectly .. 
It was so hard when i had to say Goodbye to my German shorthair - he had been my rock always there for me but we knew the time was near . 
I could not get a dog for a long time . Then I found Asta he was so differnt but the light of my life . I still miss him even though I have two incredible boys now ..
Welcome to the forum . 
You have come to the right place . Lots of caring supportive people willing to help you in any way they can ..


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Kristi, I lost my Sheltie, Sophie, to cancer in October. She was 15 1/2 yrs old. We found out about the cancer on a Monday and by Wed she was gone. Within one month we had Tessa. I always knew I'd get a Havanese when the time came. No one will ever replace Sophie but Tessa healed out hearts and filled our house left empty by my youngest leaving for college in Aug, then Sophie dying in Oct. For us, getting another dog right away was absolutely the right thing to do, although others need to wait longer. We will miss her always.

I'll leave you with a quote from Dean Kontz's newest book, The Darkest Evening if the Year:

"dog's lives are short, too short, but you know that going in. You know the pain is coming, you're going to lose a dog, and there's going to be great anguish, so you live fully in the moment...because you can't support the illusion that a dog can be your lifelong companion...there's such beauty in the hard honesty if that, of accepting and giving love while always aware it comes with an unbearable price..."


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2008)

Cosmosmom & Jan:

Thanks for you kind words and letting me know it is ok to be on this forum. Maggies death was sudden and unexpected, she was young, it was devastating. Miranda, we know it is just a matter of time.

I am not 100% sure I will be ready for a new pup right after she passes, but I want to be prepared if I do need to immediately fill the void. I just want to make the right choice. Time will tell.

Thanks again and Jan that was a beautiful and heart wrenched quote. I never really thought of that as I had gotten Miranda when I was so young. Never thinking that this happiness was going to be devasting in the end.


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## Olliesmom (Sep 29, 2006)

*Help!*

does anyone know if this baby is still available? My doggy nanny loves my boys so much she wants one - doesn't have the funds to buy a puppy and is an incredible dog lover, trainer and person. would take this biting issue on with no worries! THX


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Catherine,
I was able to email Joanne through the forum email and her daughter responded. As of last week, he was still with them and they were waiting on a placement for him. Perhaps you would want to send her an email. I contacted my breeder last week also, she is involved with rescue in the area, to see if she had heard anything. She said she hadn't heard anything. I directed her to this thread and she was going to check out the details and look into things. I would start by trying to contact Joanne. If you are not successful, let me know and I can reach out to my breeder again and see if she knows anything.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Catherine, I hope you are able to touch base with her and find a home for Poochini!! That would be so wonderful, and a happy ending for such a sad story! 
I am sure that it is breaking Joann's heart to have to give up this baby, and like any good Mom, she is doing what is best for the pup. If Catherine is able to place him in a home with a trainer who can help - we have a very happy ending!!! I will keep my fingers crossed!


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