# Breeder



## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

Hi All. My Wife and I are about to purchase a hav puppy from a Breeder in Mount Forest at Fayral Kennels. The Breeder appears to be very reputable. I guess I'm looking for anyone out there who either knows the reputation of this Breeder or has any advice. She says she has never tested her Hav's eyes and she gives a two year health guarantee against Hips and something else I can't remember. It's weird thought that she has never tested for eyes she said. She said she was booted from the CKC for Breeding Golden Doodles but that her Hav's and Lab's are registered. Any Advice would be great. Right now all we have is a deposit for Harley, our female which we are picking up on the 27th of this month.

Thanks All


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I wouldn't settle for anything less than the four HCA recommended health tests (BAER, CERF, OFA patella, OFA hips) being done on both parents _prior_ to breeding.

On my web site, I have a page called "Buyer Beware" where you can read more detail on that.

My recommendation doesn't matter who the breeder is, or what "lineage" the dogs have come from.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

By the way, I see you are talking about a Canadian breeder and the HCA recommendations are for US breeders.

I'd be wary of someone who had been suspended or expelled from a nationwide kennel like the CKC.


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

Thanks for the response. I had posted something on the "Ask A Breeder" section of the forum with regards to the breeder my wife had found. I found another site online called "Havanese at Havalene" which has the same pics as "Fayrall Kennels" which is where we are supposed to get our puppy. The Breeder has the same location, in Mount Forest and even the same pics in her site. It seems Odd. I'm thinking I should maybe advise my wife against using this breeder and looking somewhere else. Any Advice.

Thanks


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

Yeah I hear ya about the Expulsion. Apparently she had been kicked out only for breeding the Dolden Doodles but has her Hav's and Lab's registered.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Mixing breeds is usually a violation of ethics in breed clubs. I don't know anything about this breeder in particular, but if she is willing to violate ethics in one area... and a pretty major area at that...

I am not familiar enough with breeders in Ontario off-hand. I can ask for some that are of good repute if you'd like.


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

*Breeders*

Sure that would be great. I appreciate it. Unfortunately my wife and I put a deposit down on Harley. The conditions in which the Hav's were kept seemed alright. They were all together and the mothers were present with the puppies and they all seemed very content. The Breeder was very confident to deal with us with any problems we had with the puppy if she had anything wrong with her like vet arrangements if we had to take her in for anything. I'm actually going to e-mail the breeder today to ask her for more information.

Thanks


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

I just checked out their site....wow they have alot of dogs....and they live in outside kennels. Sad. Seems like a back yard breeder to me.....just my opinion.
Kimberly~ Did you notice the "Havta Hava Havanese" on their puppy page?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Radar, it make take a day or two to get some reliable info. I'll let you know if I get any good leads.

Katie, no, I didn't even bother going to their web site(s). Maybe their next web site will be Havta Hava... no, wait - I already have that! Ha ha!


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Radar: I would suggest you visit the Havanese Fanciers of Canada web site. www.havanesefanciers.com There are alot of great breeders in Canada. There is alot of great information on the web site, including links to breeders and their web sites. Breeding mixed breeds is againt the code of ethics of the Canadian Kennel Club.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Debbie, you just beat me to it! I was looking up the name of the Canadian Havanese club and names to contact.

The officers and directors are listed here: Havanese Fanciers of Canada

Here is a list of member names to contact, which also shows the area where they live: http://www.havanesefanciers.com/MembersProfile-Ont.htm

It looks like my links may be a bit outdated, but at least you can get email addresses from there and contact a few different people for advice and information. If you get consistency on what to avoid and what to look for (and require from your future breeder) among a few people, you are probably on the right track.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Why would you want to buy a pup from someone who does not health test their dogs before they are bred? Especially if you are paying the same price as getting one from a reputable breeder who does testing. Im not a breeder just a consumer who did a tremendous amount of research on this subject before i contacted several breeders(who were all referred by HCA).
I went to their website & was not impressed to say the least. Just talks about their 'breeding stock'. I want the place i get my pups from to feel like a 'home' setting and not a kennel. And mixing breeding stock for designer puppies?? Something just doesnt seem right. But thats just my opinion


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

Below is an e-mail sent to me by the breeder that is selling the havanese. Please read. Any and all opionions are most greatly appreciated.


"No puppy will not have been in a crate yet.No I don't show so the parents 
have no titles-you will be able to get a pedigree from CKC after you receive 
the registration papers.I have never had eye problems that's something 
that is blown way up eyes aren't that big a problem in this breed I know 
full well what all the internet sites tell you But it's not that big an 
issuse.
faith"


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Personally, after seeing that response from the "breeder", I'd run away as fast as I could.


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

I would run too. Besides, i would want my dog to know what a crate is BEFORE i got them. Crates, if used properly, are a great, great thing.
Even if the pup ends up not ever having health issues, i would not want that breeder to have my business after a reply like that. Even if you are out your deposit, count your losses & your blessings that you can still get out.
A responsible breeder(correct me if im wrong) is more worried about the health & welfare of their dogs than anything. Most good breeders arent even in it to make a buck but its to better the breed by eradicating health issues and to ensure loving and healthy dogs are in loving homes & is willing to take back a dog if we are in a place where we can no longer care for it. They would rather not sell a pup if it wasnt going to go to a good home.
If you choose to still go with this 'breeder', i would be curious as to why.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

> A responsible breeder(correct me if im wrong) is more worried about the health & welfare of their dogs than anything.


I completely agree, Shannon. Well said.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Have you been in contact with any of those breeders yet from the Havanese Fanciers of Canada website? I emailed almost every breeder in the ontario index and many of them are having litters ready to go hom this summer. So hopefully not all are reserved yet!

My breeder, Sinead (bottom of the list) just had another litter born last week. No clue if they are reserved yet though! She is also expecting another one shortly..

Out of curiosit, how did you come across your chosen breeder?? I have looked high and low for breeders in Ontario and have never heard of them.

Ryan


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Radar Jones - RLH - Run like He.. You need to be real comfortable with all info as well as all correspondence that a breeder sends. If you felt uncomfortable, you know something is up!!
Laurie


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

radar_jones said:


> Below is an e-mail sent to me by the breeder that is selling the havanese. Please read. Any and all opionions are most greatly appreciated.
> 
> "you will be able to get a pedigree from CKC after you receive
> the registration papers.I have never had eye problems "


Which "CKC" is she meaning and why wouldn't the breeder be able to provide you with a pedigree at the time you pick up the puppy, or for that matter why not NOW? I would walk away and go to another breeder. NONE of this sounds good.


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

*Breeders*

Well I would personally like to thank all of you who have backed me on this decision. I have already sent an e-mail to the breeder to advise her of the change in heart and the decsion my wife and I have made to go with another breeder. She advised us that the deposit is non-refundable although there is nothing that states that the deposit is non-refundable. There is nothing on the website that states that she accepts non-refundable deposits. She never told us anything about the deposit. I have e-mailed two breeders from the CFA. One is in Hamilton and the other is somewhere else in Ontario. I appreciate everyones concern and my wife is thatnking me for going on this forum.

Regards

Radar_Jones


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## vfeldman (Jan 26, 2007)

You will one day look back and thank goodness you trusted your gut (and everyone's advice) on this one.....I just had someone contact me whose breeder said the same thing...eyes are over-rated and it is just a way to get people to not buy from you! This breeder also told this person that she is to NEVER give her puppy any kind of treat; that she is a Havanese, not a dog and treats could kill her! Thank goodness my vet made this woman call me who was at her wits end! Faith is a good thing, howeve, there is good scientific research out there that demands responsible breeding.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Radar, I'm sorry to hear this isn't quite what you and your wife had hoped for. Making the decision to turn away is a difficult one, but it seems like the smarter choice to make. 

I'm in Quebec and though my breeder isn't listed at the HFC members' site, the sire's kennel is and I know for a fact that the Quebec dogs are tested. Their breedings have all gone very well and is done in the home once a year. 

We want to look for a breeder that treats each litter like their own, with TLC and more in a home environment, than out in a kennel. This is a passion for many, but when they are in it solely for the money, it shows in the long-term health of the puppies and of the dams. 

If you would like to PM me, I can recommend a couple of places in Ontario if you're interested. Good luck!


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

Hi All. Well I would like to announce that I have received an e-mail back from the Breeder and she will be refunding our deposit. She wants to mail it to us but we paid cash. I think we should request a money order instead. Any advice?

Thanks All,

Derek V. Jones


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Just my opinion, but if she was willing to refund it, I'd just take it as I can get it. I don't know how it is in Canada, but getting a money order here is a pain and requires an additional trip out to get it done. If you ask for that, you may be pushing her to the point that you don't get it at all.

It may not work the same way there, but down here, if someone writes me a check from Wells Fargo, even though I don't have a WF account, I can go into that bank and ask them to cash it for me since it is drawn on their funds. I don't risk the chance of it being stopped and taking a hit on a bounced check over at my bank.

I'm glad to see that it looks like it is working out for you.


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

I agree with Kimberly, I wouldn't push your luck. And I believe you can take the cheque to the bank to see it there are funds. Before you get bank charges. Good luck on your search for the right puppy


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

Yeah I hear ya. Well we don't have all that many problems Up Here. Wells Fargo is in Canada as well and we have all the major banks. My wife is going to request cash back and we will be going there to pick it up. I just don't want to have to wait to see any more puppies. I love this breed and really want a dog to love. My Wife Dovanna and I feel as though this breed is very special and unique and want to be able to share in the excitement of having this new family member as part of our lives.

Thanks

Regards,

Derek


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Hats off to you!!

It must be so hard for you and your wife after seeing all these pictures and falling in love with that little face to walk away. Fortunately you are doing the right thing and in the end you will find that perfect pup for your home and he or she will reward you with many years of happiness. It also looks like you have some great people up in Canada willing to help you find the right breeder, just be careful of Marj, she has MHS and may talk you right into bringing more than one pup home or she may even end up getting her 3rd while helping you LOL.


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

*Thanks a Bunch*

Thanks to everyone who thinks we did the right thing. Yeah it was hard seeing "Harley", that was to ne her name and then have to pass on having her. Well live and learn. I'm sure that we will find "the One" that will be ours and we'll know it we we see her. Now I'm all anxious because I'm so in love with this type of breed I can't wait to get another one of those little angels infront of me giving me kisses on the nose and looking all sweet and cuddly. It breaks my hear sometimes.

Derek


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

lbkar said:


> Hats off to you!! It also looks like you have some great people up in Canada willing to help you find the right breeder, just be careful of Marj, she has MHS and may talk you right into bringing more than one pup home or she may even end up getting her 3rd while helping you LOL.


***** HEY! I resemble that remark!!!  

Good news about the refund, Derek! Don't pay any attention to the warnings. I know for a fact that Laurie is even worse than I am!!! hehehe


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

*** Hey!! I too resemble that remark!!  
Wish I could convince all my neighbors too!
Laurie


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

*Very Funny*

You guy's are hillarious. I love the comraderie on this forum. Everyone's always got a funny comment or a good yarn on here. Plus you get the added bonus of getting great advice. I can't wait to Meet Cheryl Drake this weekend and see her beautiful bunch of Hav's. The drives going to be quite a haul but it'll be more than worth it. Gonna rack up the KM's on the car this weekend I tell ya. Any advice on Shampoo. Can U use the regular stuff?

Thanks,

Derek

"A Man of Wods and not of Deeds, is like a Garden, full of Weeds"


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

We are a little nuts!! I do have to say that I am so thankful for Melissa for starting this forum as now I dont feel like a crazy dog lady!! As my kids call me


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

I think it would be safe to say most of us here suffer from MHS especially when we get to look at all these great puppy pictures.. 

Laurie I agree I think it would be great if I could all talk my neighbors into getting one or two or three…

Good luck this weekend Derek, looking forward to hearing all about it.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

> Any advice on Shampoo. Can U use the regular stuff?


Derek, if you mean human shampoo on dogs, don't do it. You don't need to buy an ultra expensive formula for dogs, but do get a dog shampoo. Their pH is different than ours. Human shampoos are made to strip oils where dog shampoos are much more gentle on their hair and scalp. Another tip is to mix the shampoo with water and pour it over the dog, instead if a direct application of shampoo to the hair.

My personal combination preference is the Pure Paws Reconditioning Shampoo and The Coat Handlers Conditioner, but there are a lot of excellent products out there and one may work better on your dog's coat than it does on another. (Most of us have ended up with quite a collection of products as we have waded through them trying to figure out what we like best.)


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

*Good Stuff*

Thanks for the advice. I'll find out from Cheryl Drake when I see her this weekend what she would reccomend. Should be fun. Can't wait. My Wife and I will be bringing the digital camera for some pics if it is allowed.

Thanks


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Good luck, Derek. Drive safe and take lots of pictures, if you can.


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

*Pics*

Yeah we're gonna take as many as we can. I'll post them as soon as we get back. We're pretty much gonna be up north all day. I can't wait. It should be very exciting. The drive should be nice. It'll be sad coming back and if were get the pup we want and the week prior to picking him/her up will be crazy with the waiting. We'll be cleaning the place and getting it all ready. Should we set up a vet prior to picking him/her up?

Thanks

Derek


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Derek,

Good luck! Enjoy your visit. 

The time between choosing your pup (or your pup choosing you) and picking him/her up is sweet anticipation. You'll be busy buying a crate, toys, bowls, toys, ex-pens, toys, leashes, collars, toys..... trust me, the buying for them never ends!. There's always a better toy on the horizon! I spend more on my girls than I do on myself. If I order stuff online for myself I get "the look" from my husband but if I order stuff online for the girls no such look! Go figure.

Susan


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

*Cool*

Yeah sounds pretty enjoyable. Can U tell me what an Ex-Pen is? I have heard of people keeping the pups in one of these for when you go out and you don't want them getting into stuff. Is it just like a little enclosure, I figured it was like that. Just s little area for themselves sectioned off in the living room, kitchen or wherever it'll be for them. Keep the food, water, toys and crate in there along with the litter box for accidents right?

Derek


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

Derek, Ex-pens are enclosures that you can connect depending on the size you want. The also have different heights. I needed a 42 inch high one. I have 2 connected for my dogs. Here is a link from a popular brand. I keep their bed, water, litter box, toys etc.. & a nice area for them to play. The size depends on what you need. I would not know what to do without them!! Good luck!!

http://www.jbpet.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=505_590


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Ex-pen or x-pen is short for "exercise pen". It may be easier to find on some sites using the full name, but most use ex-pen like Shannon linked.


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

Very Nice idea. I was pretty sure what they were I just hadn't heard of the shortened name for them. I used to use the same thing when I had Hedgehogs a few years back. The pen area was just much smaller. I will definitely source that out.

Thanks


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