# Calcium Oxalate Stones



## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm going to start a thread just for the C.O. stones, in case others want to contribute information. Rico had his stitches removed today and the lab results from the stones they removed confirm the calcium oxalate diagnosis.

He has started on a canned dog food U/D (Urinary Disease) diet today and is taking potassium citrate+cranberry granules to help reduce the chance of oxalate buildup. 

I would love to find a better quality food, short of making it myself. I've subscribed to a yahoo group that deals with these issues and diet and hope to get some help there.

Rico's not crazy about his onsie, but hey, it's better than the dreaded e-collar! He also looks like he has a fuzzy slipper on the end of that chicken leg.  I haven't had the heart to give him a good grooming and shampoo yet....I want that ugly wound on his belly to heal some more.


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## Dana N (Jan 27, 2011)

Rory,

I'm sorry that I didn't respond to you days ago when you sent a request about Piper's bladder surgery. I have been away and then have difficulty getting around in this Forum. I'm still a newbie!

Piper did have urgency to go. I kept her on an hourly schedule the first few weeks and then worked up to a two hour schedule. She did beautifully! I was amazed. I too have had bladder surgery and what happens is that the bladder becomes irritable from the surgery and sometimes, post operatively, the urge is not productive. So I offered her the opportunity to go often and it soon normalized. I would imagine there is a possibility of less urine collection due to the smaller bladder size but I think he will be just fine. Tell me about the cranberry suppliment. I was thinking of doing that as a preventative. The vet said there is some support for giving cranberry but it's kind of an off label use. Piper loved her cranberry tab with a tiny amount of liverwurst around the pill. Hope all is well with you guys now. I really don't know where the post you wrote is located; it went to my email. Dana


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

Hi Dana- Lots has been happening the last few days here....I changed vets this week. I was unhappy with the treatment I was getting at the old vet (unable to ask follow up questions, stitches removed too soon, etc). Rico's incision was not healing well, in fact it had opened up. New vet says he is probably having a reaction to the self-dissolving stitches and that the outer stitches were removed too soon. 

We have backed off on the Potassium Citrate until after we get the first post-op urine analysis in 30 days to check his ph levels. If the u/d diet alone is keeping them low enough, we'll keep him just on that. If they are still not low enough, we'll add the Potassium Citrate back in. This vet was surprised to hear that I had been prescribed the Potassium Citrate with cranberry granuals. She thought that was something better suited for females, as the cranberries (which add acid to the urine) are good at preventing UTI's. Plus, she didn't like us hitting him with too much at once, because then there's no where to go should he need something to lower the ph later. These are all things I wanted to question, but never got a chance with my old vet. He's backing away from the practice and the new vets he has working have no patient skills. One doc in particular felt that these are things I shouldn't be concerned about. EXCUSE ME????


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## Dana N (Jan 27, 2011)

Are you kidding me? You shouldn't be concerned!!!! Boy, that moves the sludge out my blood a tad! I have the utmost respect for doctors as I teamed with them at the hospital for over 30 years but they are also your employee. You are paying for their service.have your concerns addressed.

Now, my vet didn't do a follow up PH test and I wondered about that too. I'm going to ask because while Piper is full of energy, I struggle with varying levels of anxiety about it happening again. I think the PH test is a great idea and gives info about how to adjust/ manage food, etc as you are discovering.

How is your little guy doing as far as going potty? How does he feel? Poor little fella. He's such a cutie too. He's lucky to have a mom who asks the hard questions for him! Doctors are stuck in their humanity like the rest of us and they have good and bad days and they do make mistakes sometimes!

Take care,
Dana


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi, you said... " I've subscribed to a yahoo group that deals with these issues and diet and hope to get some help there." You might find some information there ,but like anything you might also get poor information. If it is the food that you want help with., I would recommend talking with a nutritionist. I just happen to know of a good one that deals with this sort of problem. If you are interested check out her site. She does consultations at a very reasonable price. http://www.betterdogcare.com/?page=about


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

Thanks, Dave. I did check out Sabine's website. The group I joined uses the FuzzerFood diet for KD and CaOx dogs. It's supposed to be the best diet for these types of problems. 

I appreciate to all suggestions. There's a lot of controversy out there about what is good and what is not for CaOx dogs. Too little protien, not enough calcium. Sometimes I think I'm better off just sticking to the prescription canned food, but it looks like such fatty junk. 

Dana, Rico is doing much better. The second antobiotic really stopped the oozing and he is quicker to come back inside after a few squats.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

When you go on any web site there is bound to be differences of opinion. I always go to the food expert, not the public nor the vets. Vet food is generally not good food.


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## dbeech (Jun 16, 2009)

I second Dave's recommendation for doing a consult with Sabine. I have a friend whose Llaso Apso had been on prescription vet food for years. Sabine had her transition to new, primarily raw diet and I could not believe the difference in her dog. She looks so much better. I thought she gotten a different dog. I think it only cost about $65.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I gave Sabine a dingle about the fuzzer food. . Here's her letter.

Hi Dave!



I know of the "fuzzer food" protocol, which is one person's take on it, and I don't agree with all of its components and the "mix and match" approach.

I've developed homemade diets for many oxalate crystal/stone formers though, and they are all maintaining well. 

Sabine


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Rory, Good for you, changing vets. It is a new time and today there is so much new medicine for our little guys and today most of us spend more then the generation before us on our dogs, many of us do well vists, unheard of a couple of decades ago. Vets need to have compassion and people skills. I truely feel if a vet is not really familiar in that they are up on all the latest on the procedure, they need to give you a referral to somewhere they do many of them. The vet I have today has sent me to NCS vet school and after they checked the dog a protcol was devised and I went back and my Vet followed it, and yearly I go back, but day to day treatment has stayed with my vet. As you know two of my dogs have had serious eye problems and both had disk ruptures so there have been surgerys, the Shih Tzu had four eye surgerys, all put one done by my vet. So it is sooo important that your vet make you feel confident. It is such a helpless feeling when our babies have problems.

I hope Rico's recovery is smooth for here on out. Hugs


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

Another trip to the vets today. Rico continues to have problems with his sutures. Another antibiotic. The old vet did should a lousy job closing the incision! Gggrrrrr. I will think twice and thrice before having this surgery again. It has been such a long messy recovery for poor Rico. But he's my champ! He puts up with everything. 

I have been home cooking low oxalate foods for him, but have finally taken Dave's advice and contacted Sabine for more direction and hopefully variety. I'm on the waiting list and gearing up with meat grinders and food processor.

On a positive note, he loves his home made biscuits and meatloaf. And it's been keeping his PH in the right zone. UA today came back good. That's a good thing!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Good stuff. You'll end up with the healthiest food possible. And hopefully that will make a difference. Keep us posted.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Rory, You and your little guy need a break! I hope he heals soon. I am happy to hear that the food is helping and his levels are good.


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

Well, I was premature saying his UA came out OK. The vet called me today to say there were cyrstals in his urine and SG was high. So back to the drawing board. I'm starting him on a prescription diet, alternating with homecooked with potassium citrate supplement unitl I can get my diet from Sabine. I told the vet I was waiting for a consult from a vet nutritionist and she was positive in her reaction. That's good......


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Yeah hang in there. I wouldn't try to change the diet too much right now. When are you scheduled with Sabine. ? The slower you change the better. Nothing worse than diarrhea. LOL


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## iluvhavs (Jul 21, 2008)

She has me on her schedule for the week of the 21st. Not that far off really. I'm going to stick with the home-cooked meatloaf and add the Potassium Citrate supplement I have to that. That should be OK for the time being. 

He already has runny poops......but no diarhhea. ya!


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I hope that the new diet works.


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