# Car Training / Desensitization Process



## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong forum subsection for this.
I've been reading a lot of old car training posts on this site (which I truly appreciate), the web at large (with both good sites and just sites where dog breed X is replaced with Havanese for ad clicks etc)

I'm quite jealous of anyone whose dog doesn't have car issues - you're lucky.
And for those who have perpetual car issues, you have my unwavering sympathy - it's not pleasant to see your young charge to be so miserable. And the added distraction is just dangerous. And the cleanup breaks your spirit.
I thought I had lucked out on our long drive back from the breeder (even though he threw up in the first hour), but nope.

So we've started a new process, morning and evening for the past 2 days.

First step was to let him sit in the car without carrier/crate and have a few treats while just talking to him. This was done before he ate to prevent any vomiting.
I used tiny bits of the freeze dried chicken breast (breaking the existing treats into pieces 1/4 of a fingernail)

5-8 minutes later, went back into the house with him. Engine not started.

Playtime inside the house. Half an hour later, back into the car without carrier/crate, gave a treat.
Next, I started the engine and let him listen to those noises and offered another treat.
Turned ac on to get the car cool.
Reversed out of the garage and stopped in the driveway - treat.
Waited in the driveway with engine running - treat.
Drove forward into garage and stopped engine - treat.

All this time, he kept coming back to my lap / arms.

Then in the evening an hour before feeding him, put him in his carrier and gave him a treat in the car.
Reversed out slowly, and gave him another treat.
He cried and whined loudly as we went around the block. I stopped once and gave him another treat.
He would cry and whine until we got back into the driveway - this was just a mile taking just 5 minutes or less.

But the good news is no drooling, no vomiting, no peeing.

Takeaways so far:

Keep car cool
Remove the polyester / woolen mat from the Sherpa carrier to keep him as cool as possible
Carrier has his toys he sleeps with at night
Car has some music playing

Plan for tomorrow is to feed him a tablespoon of kibble in the car in his carrier, and do another drive around the block, and I'll update...

Either I'm tilting at windmills, or this will work...

I'm open to suggestions and ideas


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I, too, am jealous of anyone with a dog that rides in the car without throwing up.
Shadow(he is 5) gets motion sick. He has only been on 3 car rides over a mile that he did not get sick on. He really wants to go places. He is an angel in the car. He is VERY happy to get in the car. But his little belly disagrees.
I just have to accept it.
Best of luck to you and since he is a puppy, it will happen! Shadow was 10 months when I got him and had a history of motion sickness.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Perry got sick for his first 4+ years, it's only in the last year and a half that we've mostly gotten past it. He would get sick and be unhappy but he didn't whine and cry, in fact he was sometimes too quiet, like the time a suitcase partially fell over and on to his carry bag and he never made a sound. 

I am convinced his issue was a combination of motion sick and anxiety. While we were still having problems, the only thing that sort of worked was cerenia plus no eating before a trip. We did get to a point where, as long as he hadn't eaten, we could go for about 15 minutes and he wouldn't throw up until after we got out of the car.

I can't pinpoint one thing that finally helped us because we changed several things all at the same time. This included travel in a varikennel instead of his sherpa bag, no eating before the trip, Gabapentin (which was for pain but does get prescribed for anxiety as well) plus trazadone, and lots of long (weekly for a couple of months then every two weeks for a while) 90 minutes each way trips. 

None of this was done to solve the car issue but was because of all the trips to the ortho vet for his leg and meds after surgery. 

While he does still most often travel in the varikennel he can also travel in his sherpa bag, we're now at the point that he can eat before travel, he still takes the Gabapentin for his leg which i think helps. He almost never gets sick now and didn't even really get drooly either. 

As we've discussed in other posts on this subject, I think good experiences reinforce each other and help lessen the anxiety, so each trip without vomiting would build on the previous trip and would lessen his anxiety which would lessen the chance of vomiting, etc.

I won't say that he's a huge fan of car drives but at least he's not getting sick every trip.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sounds like you definitely have the right idea. Just don't go to fast!!!


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Thank you - let's see... everything is a new (and learning) process - a building block each time.

So some anxiety from the get go in his carrier. didn't want to stay inside his carrier, so i got him out and gave him some kibble from my hand while he was in my arms.
started engine, another bit of kibble.
no music and it's cool (almost cold outside).
tried to get him back into carrier with kibble - he ate them, but didn't want to stay inside. so a 50% win - at least he's not stressed to the point of not eating. no drooling either. he had his tail wagging in my arms on and off.
couple more minutes moving window up/down, turning engine off, and back inside the house. he's exploring the inside of his carrier now - body in completely.
will feed him inside carrier again as usual.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Hoping this journal log helps others later (I just spent a few minutes reading old posts going back to 2007 about how they get used to it, and how ginger capsules may help).
Waiting for the evening attempt next.

Other things in arsenal to try after speaking with vet tomorrow:

crystalized sugared ginger
Adaptil


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Sounds like you have a good plan. Just wanted to offer sympathy since Mia had lots of problems with car sickness. She was my first dog and I thought all dogs loved riding in the car. What a shock. She eventually got better, however we had a property two hours away and did not have the luxury of slowly building up to that so it took awhile. She still does not love it but never gets sick anymore.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Tere said:


> I, too, am jealous of anyone with a dog that rides in the car without throwing up.
> Shadow(he is 5) gets motion sick. He has only been on 3 car rides over a mile that he did not get sick on. He really wants to go places. He is an angel in the car. He is VERY happy to get in the car. But his little belly disagrees.
> I just have to accept it.
> Best of luck to you and since he is a puppy, it will happen! Shadow was 10 months when I got him and had a history of motion sickness.


Have you tried cerenia? It's only practical for longer trips because it does need to be given 2 hours before the trip, but while Perry was getting sick it was the only thing that mostly worked for us


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

I must admit I was under the impression that since his first drive back from the breeder (9+ hours) went off without incident (once he threw up in the first hour), he'd be all right.
First introductory vet visit couple of days later went fine too - other than him throwing up outside the Petsmart that same trip.
But it has been challenging.

I haven't tried Cerenia - his next vet visit for shots is tomorrow, and I'll discuss it. Thank you!

EDIT: looks like Cerenia is out for now - not for pups below 16 weeks. We're a spunky 12 weeks


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

Melissa Brill said:


> Have you tried cerenia? It's only practical for longer trips because it does need to be given 2 hours before the trip, but while Perry was getting sick it was the only thing that mostly worked for us


We've tried Cerenia a few times without success. It usually delayed it and he would be sick later in the day and into the night. He also got liquid poop from it. He had the same side effects when he had a $hot of it at the vets. Plus it's expensive to be used often.
I'm going to start actively trying again with him when it cools down. It is either 95 degrees or thunder and lightning every single day. I do think that he has done better since we have had a couple of no vomitting trips lately without any drugs.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

Montgomery26 said:


> Hoping this journal log helps others later (I just spent a few minutes reading old posts going back to 2007 about how they get used to it, and how ginger capsules may help).
> Waiting for the evening attempt next.
> 
> Other things in arsenal to try after speaking with vet tomorrow:
> ...


I have not tried ginger but have used Adaptil which really seemed to make Shadow calm although Shadow is not nervous in the car. I did try some calming treats, calming collars, calming music, raising his crate. I think one of the treats had ginger in it.
For months, I used to take Shadow in the car to visit his best friend(who only lives 10 homes away) and we would stop and visit any friends that were out. I tried to make every small trip a happy one since he loves people and other dogs. In his case, the vet feels that he is simply a dog that gets motion sick.
Most puppies outgrow the motion sickness. 
If he doesn't like his carrier, I would bring it inside and put it where he can see it. Play fetch and throw his toys and treats in it often so he gets comfortable in it. Don't put it away and bring it out just for the car.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Lovely name - Shadow.

Thank you - I'm seriously pondering carrying Adaptil with me - but I am hoping the ginger might help.

He's content with his carrier - eats in it, plays on top of it, and sleeps in it too. No issues there. 
I'm just trying to plan how to drive half an hour away and get the crystalized ginger stuff from a local store. Doesn't make sense to take him in the car and traumatize him over that. And leaving him behind at home will make him cry, but I guess it's a good 'break' to work on separation anxiety too...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It was important me that my puppies NOT have this problem when they went to their forever homes, so I made sure to get them out in the car VERY easy... starting with when they were still nursing, so didn't really even notice. HOWEVER, I did not start with half hour car trips. I started with VERY SLOW trips around the block, ending with a party time in the back yard. When we started "going places" it STILL wasn't far, and it ALWAYS ended someplace "fun". I think the mistakes people make with their puppies in the beginning is that:

1. The car rides (or exposure, even) tends not to be frequent enough
2. The car rides tend to be too long
3. TOO OFTEN, the only car rides tend to end some place unpleasant, like the vet or the groomer! Make it SHORT and make it FUN! 

There are STILL going to be a few who have a physical "motion sickness" that they need to grow out of. (hopefully!!!) But for the vast majority of puppies, where their upset about the car turns INTO car sickness, proper, slow introduction can get them through it!


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I used to spray Adaptil in the car near his crate about 10 minutes before we would go for a ride.
I know of people who have used ginger to calm a doggy tummy but think they used ginger treats or capsules, not the sugar coated root?
It is best to get a puppy used to being alone for short periods of time. Separation anxiety is real.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Just picked up some crystalized ginger - that was the first time he was left alone at home in his playpen. Total outing of 40 minutes. He did good.
And he likes the strong crystalized ginger too - so hopefully, that helps him tomorrow when we go to the vet for his distemper and parvo shots (just spoke with the vet office - they suggested Bordetella too, but not doing that)

Next step: more car desensitization training this evening before eating - but with a tiny piece of ginger prior, and of course, more treats.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tere said:


> I know of people who have used ginger to calm a doggy tummy but think they used ginger treats or capsules, not the sugar coated root?
> It is best to get a puppy used to being alone for short periods of time. Separation anxiety is real.


I think you can use plain old ginger snap cookies (the people kind) too.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Oh nice - I'll get those too. Thank you. That way we have 2 kinds to nibble (for both of us)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Montgomery26 said:


> Oh nice - I'll get those too. Thank you. That way we have 2 kinds to nibble (for both of us)


I like them too... They wouldn't last long around here! LOL!


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I love ginger snaps. Guess I'd better get some for poor Shadow!


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Some good progress! We just went out for a quick drive - same trip around the block. Had to coax him into the carrier with treats (even though the little monkey was playing in it by himself just a few minutes earlier...)

but still, progress - couple of whines and cries, but not blue murder like yesterday.

didn't give any more ginger than the bit earlier (as I don't want to overload his stomach).

onto the morning.now.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

So far so good - gave him a small piece of crystallized ginger this morning - he likes them.
Then into carrier with a treat (had him jump in and out of it from the top to make it a game)

and into the car, start engine, around the block. whined and cried on moving forward, but much lesser.
Anxiety seemed lesser too - and that allowed him to listen to me rather than be in full panic mode - that let me use new cue words like 'we're going home' etc

More progress than yesterday.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Sounds like you're making great progress and going to a lot of effort to do this which is amazing. Also sounds like you might have a mix of anxiety and motion sickness (same as Perry) which I think makes it harder - because I think in our case Perry was anxious and motion sick, then he'd get sick which made him more anxious about getting in the car and the vicious circle continued  

The good news is that circle can continue in the positive direction too - I believe that having some trips (in your case even short ones) and that continuing can also reduce the "I'm going to get sick" anxiety so you can deal just with the "regular" car anxiety.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

That is my hope - desensitize him enough with positive experiences and little wins, so the anxiety goes away. And hopefully, that will take the motion sickness away.
If I could bark instructions, it'd be so much easier


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## Tategigot (Aug 13, 2019)

Montgomery26 said:


> I apologize in advance if this is the wrong forum subsection for this.
> I've been reading a lot of old car training posts on this site (which I truly appreciate), the web at large (with both good sites and just sites where dog breed X is replaced with Havanese for ad clicks etc)
> 
> I'm quite jealous of anyone whose dog doesn't have car issues - you're lucky.
> ...


I had the same challenge with my pup. Unfortunately it impacted socializing him, because I live in a rural area.i attempted gradual desensitization .. sitting in the car, with air conditioning.. lots of treats.. moving a few hundred feet..then 1/4 Mile… through the neighborhood.. our pup was anxious/ reactive and not exposed to a car except once when he saw the vet with the breeder. After weeks of gradual work, he could go about 5 miles.. but he hated the car. finally our vet suggested Cerenia. He drooled like crazy, but did not vomit. We also tried a car seat, attached to the seat bet with him strapped into a harness in the back seat with cerenia.We travel between Maine and NC. Our pup drooled all the way..the first time we made the trip, and was miserable.. so Next we tried short trips to the beach in our home in NC.. a half mile drive.. lots of treats and play time.. we kept increasing distance without cerenia. By this time out vet prescribed trazadone, because of his anxiety. Over time our pup developed a love for riding. He wants to be with us. Trips to Starbucks helped. Unhealthy pup cups in a parked car with his pet parents, laughing and loving him helped. Now our guy, barks to go for a ride if we look at the car keys. He drives spring and fall 923 miles.. with a big havanese grin!


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## Tategigot (Aug 13, 2019)

Sorry for my typos


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Montgomery26 said:


> That is my hope - desensitize him enough with positive experiences and little wins, so the anxiety goes away. And hopefully, that will take the motion sickness away.
> If I could bark instructions, it'd be so much easier


What kind of carrier in the car are you using? One of the things that I think helped (though hard to tell because we changed so many things) was using a varikennel for a while instead of his sherpa bag. We've been able to go back to his sherpa bag since then, but I think the extra airflow and being able to see out at least helped .


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

@Tategigot - thank you, it's a good feeling to know someone else did the same thing and it worked for them. Instills confidence.
He's too young for Cerenia, etc.So going to try Adaptil now...

@Melissa Brill I'm using a Sherpa mesh. I'll look into the varikennel now. Thank you.

We just got back after getting shots. He did throw up on the way back. But they did give a lot of treats at the vet while he got his DAPP shot - so maybe that didn't help. Maybe some more ginger would've helped....or maybe a short walk first... I don't know. Too many variables.
The upshot is after he threw up and tried to eat it, he didn't cry or whine at all.

The vet did offer gabapentin but also said to try Adaptil first. So just ordered that now to test tomorrow.

The odyssey continues...


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

So after giving him a couple of days break after his shots and doing other training, I finally got to try out the Adaptil with him today.
The vet did approve trying Adaptil too, which was reassuring.

Sprayed it inside his carrier, waited 15 minutes, put him in it, went off for a short drive around the block - no fast breathing, no crying, no issues at all. He handled it all very well.
That stuff works!
Naturally, once we got home, I sniffed inside his carrier (again), but nope, couldn't detect any scent. When I sniffed inside it after spraying it, it had the strong smell of rubbing alcohol. That went away after a minute.

There's a light at the end of the tunnel...


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

We used Adaptil when we picked Izzy up from the breeder for the ride home and then in his crate every night for about a week and around his puppy playpen for the same period. He handled all the “new” very well. No crying in the crate (the breeder started crate training before the litter went home), much less protesting in his playpen than either Leo or Rex when they were baby puppies, all the other household pets seemed to adapt pretty quickly to Izzy. I also used it when we had his vet wellness check and again when we went for his 2nd puppy vaccine. I had never used Apaptil before but really think it has helped with Izzy’s introduction into our home.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

I've never tried Adaptil, curious now about it. I did try calming chews but Perry either refused to chew them OR threw them up immediately. 

We don't need the calming stuff for car rides now, but makes me wonder if the adaptil might be useful for his separation issues when we have to leave him home alone.

Re: the smell - how strong would you say it is... they have a diffuser and the spray at chewy.com - but I can't do strong smells so the diffuser concerns me (even if I just plug it in when we're gone - if it's a strong smell.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Melissa Brill said:


> I've never tried Adaptil, curious now about it. I did try calming chews but Perry either refused to chew them OR threw them up immediately.
> 
> We don't need the calming stuff for car rides now, but makes me wonder if the adaptil might be useful for his separation issues when we have to leave him home alone.
> 
> Re: the smell - how strong would you say it is... they have a diffuser and the spray at chewy.com - but I can't do strong smells so the diffuser concerns me (even if I just plug it in when we're gone - if it's a strong smell.


I haven’t really noticed a smell. Instructions do say to spray it 15 minutes prior to putting the dog in the car.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I have not used the diffuser, only the spray. I couldn't really smell anything although I tried to! I sprayed it 10 or so minutes before Shadow entering the car. I also used it in his crate before I departed(separation anxiety). It seemed to help.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

I couldn't smell anything after the initial rubbing alcohol like smell of the aerosol.
Thank you @Pucks104 and @Tere - this is very reassuring to know. I'm glad it worked for you.

Seeing the positive effect of Adaptil yesterday was very welcome. I'm pondering using it more often - like before grooming, etc... and also to spray some on his collar.

Thoughts?
Do they build up an immunity / tolerance to it over time? So you need to spray more than before?


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Montgomery26 said:


> I couldn't smell anything after the initial rubbing alcohol like smell of the aerosol.
> Thank you @Pucks104 and @Tere - this is very reassuring to know. I'm glad it worked for you.
> 
> Seeing the positive effect of Adaptil yesterday was very welcome. I'm pondering using it more often - like before grooming, etc... and also to spray some on his collar.
> ...


I don’t know but I still use it for new experiences for Izzy and it still seems to help.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Thank you.
PS: I imagine my young lad will look like yours as he gets older and his coat lightens


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I thought of spraying it on his collar but I "think" it said not to? One of my friends buys the collars for his dog though. This dog is so afraid of thunder(we have it a few times a day in Florida this time of year) and swears by it.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Tere said:


> I thought of spraying it on his collar but I "think" it said not to? One of my friends buys the collars for his dog though. This dog is so afraid of thunder(we have it a few times a day in Florida this time of year) and swears by it.


The chewy website advertises a diffuser and an adaptil collar though that seems to only be in medium/large.









ADAPTIL Electric Dog Diffuser, Starter Kit & Adaptil Calming Adjustable Dog Collar, Medium & Large - Chewy.com


Buy Adaptil Electric Dog Diffuser, Starter Kit & Adaptil Calming Adjustable Dog Collar, Medium & Large at Chewy.com. FREE shipping and the BEST customer service!




www.chewy.com


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

The Adaptil.com site has an Adaptil Jr collar. I have one but haven’t tried it on Izzy yet. I was waiting for him to get a bit bigger maybe when he is 5 lbs I will try it.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Not sure if it's a residual effect or maybe he's just gotten more used to his carrier, but he doesn't complain being in it.

What I did notice is that this dog is not afraid of thunder. The rain failling on the roof at an angle made him look around to see what was going on, but thunder he wasn't bothered by. 
Right now, we're just trying to figure out flights after ours got cancelled


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Montgomery26 said:


> Not sure if it's a residual effect or maybe he's just gotten more used to his carrier, but he doesn't complain being in it.
> 
> What I did notice is that this dog is not afraid of thunder. The rain failling on the roof at an angle made him look around to see what was going on, but thunder he wasn't bothered by.
> Right now, we're just trying to figure out flights after ours got cancelled


It would be unusual for a puppy or young dog to be bothered by thunder. Thunder phobias tend to show up around 3-4 years old. I’m not sure if anyone knows why. So lots of positive experiences at this age, pairing the thunder with play and other fun things can be a great way of innoculating the puppy against thunder phobia down the line.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

I'm glad you know all this. Thank you - I didn't know it started later in life.

Excellent idea to pair it with play - thank you!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Montgomery26 said:


> Not sure if it's a residual effect or maybe he's just gotten more used to his carrier, but he doesn't complain being in it.
> 
> What I did notice is that this dog is not afraid of thunder. The rain failling on the roof at an angle made him look around to see what was going on, but thunder he wasn't bothered by.
> Right now, we're just trying to figure out flights after ours got cancelled





krandall said:


> It would be unusual for a puppy or young dog to be bothered by thunder. Thunder phobias tend to show up around 3-4 years old. I’m not sure if anyone knows why. So lots of positive experiences at this age, pairing the thunder with play and other fun things can be a great way of innoculating the puppy against thunder phobia down the line.


Perry is afraid of almost everything - within the last few weeks it's been a comb lying beside the road and thin twigs/ branches in the grass . But, luckily, he is not/ has not been/ hopefully will not be afraid of thunder.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> It would be unusual for a puppy or young dog to be bothered by thunder. Thunder phobias tend to show up around 3-4 years old. I’m not sure if anyone knows why. So lots of positive experiences at this age, pairing the thunder with play and other fun things can be a great way of innoculating the puppy against thunder phobia down the line.


I was always hsppy that even though Sundance tends to be on the anxious side and is jumpy about sound, he wasn’t afraid of thunder or fireworks. On the 4th of July this year someone set off a firework that sounded like an explosion while we were sitting outside with Sundance. There is a clear spot in the park directly in front of our house that attracts families setting off small fireworks and sparklers every year and he’s fine with those. It was completely unexpected, and it actually scared all of us, but Sundance was shaking and lip smacking. it was the worst I’ve ever seen him. We have a second state holiday in July and I was hoping he would forget by then, but he ran inside at the sight of the lights, even though they were quiet fireworks. He hid on the sofa with me and was shaky so I wrapped him tightly in a blanket, which helped. He eventually herded me upstairs. 

I actually looked into adaptil after that, thinking I should purchase it before I forgot, to have on hand for new year’s. There were some questions about the expiration date on several sites so I didn’t pursue buying it early. Then when the spray was mentioned here I looked at it again and I was surprised to see the continuous diffuser is what’s recommended for fireworks and storms and it takes 7 days to work. I’m curious why someone can’t just use the spray as needed outside of a car!


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

I have sprayed the Adaptil spray in and around Izzy’s puppy pen or crate as needed. I give it 15 minutes before I put him in the pen or crate. It seems effective.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Poor boy!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I was always hsppy that even though Sundance tends to be on the anxious side and is jumpy about sound, he wasn’t afraid of thunder or fireworks. On the 4th of July this year someone set off a firework that sounded like an explosion while we were sitting outside with Sundance. There is a clear spot in the park directly in front of our house that attracts families setting off small fireworks and sparklers every year and he’s fine with those. It was completely unexpected, and it actually scared all of us, but Sundance was shaking and lip smacking. it was the worst I’ve ever seen him. We have a second state holiday in July and I was hoping he would forget by then, but he ran inside at the sight of the lights, even though they were quiet fireworks. He hid on the sofa with me and was shaky so I wrapped him tightly in a blanket, which helped. He eventually herded me upstairs.


This is what I'm afraid of...here in the states our neighbors will set off fireworks most of the summer on the weekends (though they have been a little quiet this year) so I tend not to take Perry out til well after 10/11 especially on weekends just to be sure we don't go out right before a big explosion.

Poor Sundance!


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

You are lucky that it quiets down after 10 or 11. Not here. They blast them day and night for days before and after a holiday. 
My previous dog was never nervous about fireworks until one year when it was really loud and very close. Gutters were filled with "rockets" and there were loud "screamers". From that day forward, he would hear a distant pop and freeze. He was about 10 so one bad experience was it for him. I'm trying to avoid a similar situation with Shadow.
I wish they would ban fireworks altogether although they were not legal here, they are sold everywhere.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Tere said:


> You are lucky that it quiets down after 10 or 11. Not here. They blast them day and night for days before and after a holiday.
> My previous dog was never nervous about fireworks until one year when it was really loud and very close. Gutters were filled with "rockets" and there were loud "screamers". From that day forward, he would hear a distant pop and freeze. He was about 10 so one bad experience was it for him. I'm trying to avoid a similar situation with Shadow.
> I wish they would ban fireworks altogether although they were not legal here, they are sold everywhere.


As someone who has lived in war zones with explosions/ bombs i also wish they would ban them. If i know they're going to happen it doesn't bother me but when they're a surprise they do.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

Florida has a huge population of people who have served our country in the military. Many of them suffer with PTSD. In my hood, we have several former military people who do not enjoy fireworks and nearly everyone has a dog. Our homes are on small lots with tons of large oak trees everywhere. Quite the fire hazard. Several times over the years, neighbors have started small fires that had to be extinguished with fireworks.
The worst offender is the local owner/vet of the animal hospital closest to us.
I just think it's wrong to put neighbors and their homes in danger. Especially with the home owners insurance problem in Florida, so many people have lost coverage. I wish I could say I lived among smart people!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> This is what I'm afraid of...here in the states our neighbors will set off fireworks most of the summer on the weekends (though they have been a little quiet this year) so I tend not to take Perry out til well after 10/11 especially on weekends just to be sure we don't go out right before a big explosion.
> 
> Poor Sundance!


We live on a farm that abuts other farm land... the invites kid with fireworks, because they know they can melt into the surrounding woods before police can get there to catch them. So yes, even though private fireworks are strictly illegal in MA... we get them all summer too. When we had horses, we used to have problems with some of them landing RIGHT in the paddocks with the horses!!!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Years ago they lifted some of the restrictions on publicly sold fireworks. It sounded like fun and everyone was talking about it so DH and I went out to a fireworks stand and promptly got sticker shock. We spent a bunch of money on fireworks and afterwards it felt like such a waste! None of us have ever been interested in setting them off again so we’ve had a couple of leftovers sitting in our safe for years because i don’t know how to get rid of them. We don’t really keep any valuables in it, just paperwork and fireworks, so we joke that if anyone breaks into the safe they’ll be surprised and hopefully make off with them! I’m sure the loud one we heard was not legal, there have been restrictions because of fires.

For those of you who have the spray, did you notice if there is an expiration date and how far out it is? I want to try it but I need to plan ahead because I know I won’t remember during the holidays.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

I have travel size bottle that expired 7/22. I ordered it from Amazon 2/21 according to my orders.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Update: he gets car sick in his carrier, but not when he's being held with 2 people in the car. Go figure!

i am now beginning to suspect it's the carrier he has issues with. time to test a car seat.

He flew beautifully in the carrier though - no whining, no issues at all. but that was on an empty stomach.
He's a c-section, with the middle name of Caesar (naturally), so in the true Roman tradition, once he throws up, he's good to party after - the little degenerate


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

It could be that he feels more secure/less anxious being held.
I put an inverted storage container under Shadow's crate to see if being up higher to look out the window helped. He, too, is ready for anything once he throws up.


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## HavaneseMe (9 mo ago)

Montgomery26 said:


> Update: he gets car sick in his carrier, but not when he's being held with 2 people in the car. Go figure!
> 
> i am now beginning to suspect it's the carrier he has issues with. time to test a car seat.


*We bought a larger carrier for our Ruffin as he got bigger and while the carrier was strapped securely in the backseat of our sedan, I could see him just being tossed around like a salad while we drove, and he got sick. We bought a soft-sided carrier for a cheap price on Amazon, but it has to be strapped in so he's looking out the side window, not the front window, and last night he also got sick. So, we're considering a tether with one of his beds in the back. Or maybe an elevated car seat, but they are pretty darn expensive and I don't feel like losing money again if he can't handle the ride in an expensive seat. *


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Car seats are also a pretty un-safe way fro a dog to ride in the car. They are better than nothing... but not good.


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Agree 100% - car seats aren't safe either. But if they work to prevent his feeling sickly, perhaps then it's a new foundation to build upon.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Montgomery26 said:


> Agree 100% - car seats aren't safe either. But if they work to prevent his feeling sickly, perhaps then it's a new foundation to build upon.


If it's an intermediate step, though, there are cheaper ways than buying such an expensive pice of unsafe equipment. When Kodi was younger, he rode in a donut bed, on the seat of the car, in a crash tested car harness. He could see out the windows if he sat up. I don't love the safety of this method either, but it's a DARN sight safer than being up at window height in an un-safe car seat.

As some one mentioned, if you need more height, you could build up more height temporarily with folded blankets or something.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Montgomery26 said:


> Update: he gets car sick in his carrier, but not when he's being held with 2 people in the car. Go figure!
> 
> i am now beginning to suspect it's the carrier he has issues with. time to test a car seat.
> 
> ...


If it might be the carrier try a varikennel, it was one of the things we changed with Perry and it worked well. that would be safer than a car seat and allows air and light.

Perry has always flown well in his carrier. He'd get sick in his carrier in the car on the way to the airport (we traveled with 2 carriers for that reason) and then was fine in the airport/ on the plane.


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

Karen, Kodi was an absolutely beautiful puppy! What a cutie!
That was me that uses an upside down storage container bottom. It fits snuggly on the leather bucket seat and the edges are rounded. I put his varikennel on top with it secured to the car's seat with locked belt. My neighbor came up with the idea.
Back in the stone ages(1980), I used to put my puppy in a square laundry basket to transport him in the car. It worked. This discussion made me think of those sweet days long forgotten. He was the very best car riding dog I ever owned. I'll bet he travelled 100,000 miles over his 18 year life.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks! He was a cutie!!!


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Well, it looks like it was a mix of the carrier and possibly getting more used to being in a car...
Tried a car seat today - and he had no issues. Short 3 mile drive - he stayed half in, half out.
And on the way back, he just hopped out of it - and stayed on the passenger seat with his leash looped around the headrest.

No issue at all - on a full stomach.

However, 3 weeks ago or so, the same lack of carrier had resulted in vomit.

Time to return the car seat now.
I'll test a donut bed next...


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

Success! Donut bed worked just fine. Even on a full stomach.

He's more comfortable on the bed than he is just on the seat - the little marquis 

Funny thing is at the end of it all, I cannot say if it was just the result of the desensitization process, or him growing older by a week or so...

next step, get him used to sitting in the back seat in his donut dog bed.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yay!!! I think it is probably a combination of all your good work AND a little maturity as well!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Give it a little time and you can probably go back to a safer option like his carry bag seatbelted or a varikennel. Since Perry's been doing well with the varikennel we have used his sherpa bag a few times again with successful trips (no vomiting!)


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

That's great news! It will only get better from here!


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## Montgomery26 (6 mo ago)

thank you - i still can't believe it. but i'll take it  

the next step is to get him used to a more secure option.

i must say, i'm in awe of those of you who have kids and/or multiple pups - it's a lot of work...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Montgomery26 said:


> thank you - i still can't believe it. but i'll take it
> 
> the next step is to get him used to a more secure option.
> 
> i must say, i'm in awe of those of you who have kids and/or multiple pups - it's a lot of work...


You're doing an awesome job.


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