# Important Info on Heartworm



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

This is a new article from Dr. Dodds.


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https://46289883129%2Fdodds-heartworm-preventives


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## Regina (Mar 9, 2013)

Thank you SO very much for this article. I was just having this discussion with someone the other day.


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## havanesemom3 (Feb 28, 2012)

Very helpful thank u!


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks, Karen. I just asked my vet a couple of weeks ago about the need for heartworm preventative during the winter months and she told me, emphatically, that they should be used year round because just one warm day could cause mosquitos to come out. (Haven't seen any of those this winter)! Guess I'll use my judgment and Dr. Dodd's advice on that from now on. Luckily, neither Bailey nor Tyler has ever had any reaction to vaccines or any of the preventatives. Gad you shared the article.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I would stay away from the heart worm medication that has spinosads. Its found in Trifexis the medication has caused problems in many different breeds . Not just seizures but liver and pancreas problems. Doctors are starting to hear more and more lately. Goggle it and read all the people who are writing about their dogs getting sick.


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## RitaandRiley (Feb 27, 2012)

sandypaws said:


> Thanks, Karen. I just asked my vet a couple of weeks ago about the need for heartworm preventative during the winter months and she told me, emphatically, that they should be used year round because just one warm day could cause mosquitos to come out. (Haven't seen any of those this winter)! Guess I'll use my judgment and Dr. Dodd's advice on that from now on. Luckily, neither Bailey nor Tyler has ever had any reaction to vaccines or any of the preventatives. Gad you shared the article.


My vet said the same thing, I'll be following Dr. Dodds.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

sandypaws said:


> Thanks, Karen. I just asked my vet a couple of weeks ago about the need for heartworm preventative during the winter months and she told me, emphatically, that they should be used year round because just one warm day could cause mosquitos to come out. (Haven't seen any of those this winter)! Guess I'll use my judgment and Dr. Dodd's advice on that from now on. Luckily, neither Bailey nor Tyler has ever had any reaction to vaccines or any of the preventatives. Gad you shared the article.


Yes, mosquitos can come out, but the Heartworm microfilaria can't develop without a period over 57F. Most of the serious dog people I know do what I've chosen to do with Kodi. (which is basically what Dr. Dodds said ) He is on Heartworm preventative every 6 weeks (to the DAY... I mark it on the calendar) from May 1 until late Oct., early Nov. Just to make extra-sure, I have blood drawn for a heartworm test in March or April (Kodi's was done last week) to guarantee that he has not come in contact with Heartworms before re-starting the meds.

We used to use Interceptor, as instructed by Pam King, but since that is no longer being made, with her help, we decided to move to Heartguard. He has only had 3 doses so far, (I had bought quite a bit of Interceptor before it went off the market) and so far, he has had no signs of adverse reaction to it.

The other thing my vet suggested is to time his flea and tick meds so that they are as far away from the Heartguard as possible, time-wise. We don't want his organs and immune system assaulted by too many chemicals all at once. Also, if he were to have a reaction, we would be able to tell WHICH product caused it.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

thanks for the article Karen


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

*Important info on heartworm*



krandall said:


> Yes, mosquitos can come out, but the Heartworm microfilaria can't develop without a period over 57F. Most of the serious dog people I know do what I've chosen to do with Kodi. (which is basically what Dr. Dodds said ) He is on Heartworm preventative every 6 weeks (to the DAY... I mark it on the calendar) from May 1 until late Oct., early Nov. Just to make extra-sure, I have blood drawn for a heartworm test in March or April (Kodi's was done last week) to guarantee that he has not come in contact with Heartworms before re-starting the meds.
> 
> We used to use Interceptor, as instructed by Pam King, but since that is no longer being made, with her help, we decided to move to Heartguard. He has only had 3 doses so far, (I had bought quite a bit of Interceptor before it went off the market) and so far, he has had no signs of adverse reaction to it.
> 
> The other thing my vet suggested is to time his flea and tick meds so that they are as far away from the Heartguard as possible, time-wise. We don't want his organs and immune system assaulted by too many chemicals all at once. Also, if he were to have a reaction, we would be able to tell WHICH product caused it.


I also used Interceptor for years and have switched to Heartguard without a reaction. Interestingly, however, is that both of my dogs also got both their heartworm and flea and tick preventative at the same time, the first day of every month, yearround. I guess the Havanese of years gone by had better immune systems, genes or whatever, as we also have always treated our lawn with pesticides and fertilizer over the years and not only have they always walked on it but also grazed on it like little cows. In light of all that I've read and know now, I will definitely follow all of the new protocols when a new puppy is in on the horizon. I would never take any chances or endanger a dog because it hand't been a problem in the past. I know that the world is changing and sometimes, not for the better. I guess I have been very, very fortunate to have had two very healthy and long lived Havanese and I am so thankful for that after having read some of the posts on the forum. Sure glad I joined and am learning so much, thanks to everyone here. As I said before about Tyler, and now about myself, you can teach an old dog new tricks so keep the information coming.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

I also don't do the heartworm pill during the winter months. The vet just assumes I order from some place else. Jack's and Nessie's tests are always negative.


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

I don't do the heartworm pills for my older lab and I don't intend to do so with my hav puppy. If I left them outside I would, but they are indoor dogs and I am not comfortable with giving them a pesticide every month. I am kind of surprised the dogs I had growing up never got heartworm as they were outside most of the time.


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## RitaandRiley (Feb 27, 2012)

Interesting point. I wonder what has changed. My childhood dog had the "flea collar". I wonder whether that did anything or not.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

I have a great article about heartworm and the life cycle and how it is temperature dependent-it is at dogs4dogs.com. Search Heartworm and there are a few pages. One mosquito can be out, but the conditions have to be just right-it has to have bitten a HW infected dog-coyote-fox and taken up heartworm microfilariae and the temp has to be a sustained temp of 57 for one month and if the temp dips below the 57 degree mark the entire cycle has to start again. At temps of 80 degrees it takes 10-14 days for the larve to develop in the mosquito. I have Lizzie tested every year and do not give any heartworm medication. Our neighborhood sprays for mosquitoes so that helps.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

thanks Karen,


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

*Important I of on heartworm*



Lizzie'sMom said:


> I have a great article about heartworm and the life cycle and how it is temperature dependent-it is at dogs4dogs.com. Search Heartworm and there are a few pages. One mosquito can be out, but the conditions have to be just right-it has to have bitten a HW infected dog-coyote-fox and taken up heartworm microfilariae and the temp has to be a sustained temp of 57 for one month and if the temp dips below the 57 degree mark the entire cycle has to start again. At temps of 80 degrees it takes 10-14 days for the larve to develop in the mosquito. I have Lizzie tested every year and do not give any heartworm medication. Our neighborhood sprays for mosquitoes so that helps.


Thanks, Lizzie, for the info on that website, dogs4dogs.com. It is very, very informative and interesting. Boy, will I be doing things differently next time around. As I mentioned, however, I have been very lucky this time around and haven't had any issues. Tyler has even been given the flu shot for the past two years as it was recommended by the groomers, doggie daycares, vets, etc. here when there was an outbreak two years ago. Luckily, no ill effects from that vaccine either. Thanks for sharing.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

sandypaws said:


> I also used Interceptor for years and have switched to Heartguard without a reaction. Interestingly, however, is that both of my dogs also got both their heartworm and flea and tick preventative at the same time, the first day of every month, yearround. I guess the Havanese of years gone by had better immune systems, genes or whatever, as we also have always treated our lawn with pesticides and fertilizer over the years and not only have they always walked on it but also grazed on it like little cows. In light of all that I've read and know now, I will definitely follow all of the new protocols when a new puppy is in on the horizon. I would never take any chances or endanger a dog because it hand't been a problem in the past. I know that the world is changing and sometimes, not for the better. I guess I have been very, very fortunate to have had two very healthy and long lived Havanese and I am so thankful for that after having read some of the posts on the forum. Sure glad I joined and am learning so much, thanks to everyone here. As I said before about Tyler, and now about myself, you can teach an old dog new tricks so keep the information coming.


Mary, I think 90% of Havs STILL don't have a problem with these things. It is just that it's devastating for the dogs that do. Kodi hasn't had any trouble. But I learn more and more about the toxins in our environment all the time. And the more I learn, the more I want to limit (and/or manage) exposure for my family AND my pets.

After learning what I have in the last few years, I've completely changed the way I vaccinate our cat, too, even though she's 12 years old and very healthy. I want to do all I cN to keep her that way!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lizzie'sMom said:


> I have a great article about heartworm and the life cycle and how it is temperature dependent-it is at dogs4dogs.com. Search Heartworm and there are a few pages. One mosquito can be out, but the conditions have to be just right-it has to have bitten a HW infected dog-coyote-fox and taken up heartworm microfilariae and the temp has to be a sustained temp of 57 for one month and if the temp dips below the 57 degree mark the entire cycle has to start again. At temps of 80 degrees it takes 10-14 days for the larve to develop in the mosquito. I have Lizzie tested every year and do not give any heartworm medication. Our neighborhood sprays for mosquitoes so that helps.


For me, this would be too far in the opposite direction, at least in our area. We DO have periods warm enough in southern N.E. That dogs do occasionally get Heartworm. And the problem is that the disease is very damaging, but so is the treatment. It's very toxic, painful, dangerous and long. You always have to weigh the potential risks of treating vs. not treating, and for me, the risk of the disease outweighs the risk of the preventstive done in a thoughtful, minimal exposure way.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

I agree to a point, Karen. My vet (she is holistic) said that treatment for a case of heartworm is the monthly that everyone gives. It takes 6 months to develop. When people give a monthly "preventative" it isn't "preventing" anything. Heartworm pills kill any larvae that the dog may have. Dogs are getting this every month to kill something that the majority will never get. So, if Lizzie were to get heartworm the treatment is the same as what everyone is giving their dogs on a monthly basis. That is if we catch it early, which with yearly testing we are doing. The damage to the heart comes with cases that are old and the worms have really multiplied. If we lived in a warmer area I would test every 6 months.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lizzie'sMom said:


> I agree to a point, Karen. My vet (she is holistic) said that treatment for a case of heartworm is the monthly that everyone gives. It takes 6 months to develop. When people give a monthly "preventative" it isn't "preventing" anything. Heartworm pills kill any larvae that the dog may have. Dogs are getting this every month to kill something that the majority will never get. So, if Lizzie were to get heartworm the treatment is the same as what everyone is giving their dogs on a monthly basis. That is if we catch it early, which with yearly testing we are doing. The damage to the heart comes with cases that are old and the worms have really multiplied. If we lived in a warmer area I would test every 6 months.


My understanding, though, is that the treatment (while the same drugs) is at higher doses. Also, it is the die-off of accumulated worms that can cause severe damage to the heart and lungs, so the dog must be kept crated, with only quiet leash walking, for a long period of time until all the worms are killed and passed, and the heart and lungs recover.

And yes, I know that the "preventative" doses kill developing heartworms after the fact, they don't actually prevent infection. That's why it's important (for those in areas where infection is possible/likely) to dose again, at least one month AFTER the last possible date of infection.

I do know dogs (Havanese, in fact) whose owners chose the "test and treat" method of control, in an area where heartworm infections are not very common. One of them did get heartworm. The treatment period was very difficult for both him and his owner. He was a very, very sick dog. (once treatment started... they didn't know there was a problem until the heartworm test was done) He has permanent damage to his heart and lungs, and will never have the stamina he had before the infection.

I am a big believer in minimal exposure to toxins, and I also use a holistic vet. But this is one I'm not willing to take chances with. As I said, everyone needs to weigh the cost/benefit of any treatment carefully, and decide what is best for their dog under their circumstances. I don't know how much time Lizzie spends out side, but that's a factor too. Kodi is often outdoors with us, so may have more mosquito exposure than dogs who spend more time in the house.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

Good points to think about and I appreciate learning all I can. There is always the May and December dosing schedule. I am flexible too that I may dose her minimally years that mosquitoes are bad. I don't think I would ever dose year round. I think the fact that our neighborhood sprays for mosquitoes helps. Yes, I think that Lizzie's lifestyle is very different from Kodi's. She does play ball in the yard, but mainly is outdoors on a daily walk or sitting on the porch or on the pool deck!! She could sit on the porch all day long.


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## andra (Aug 23, 2010)

krandall said:


> The other thing my vet suggested is to time his flea and tick meds so that they are as far away from the Heartguard as possible, time-wise. We don't want his organs and immune system assaulted by too many chemicals all at once. Also, if he were to have a reaction, we would be able to tell WHICH product caused it.


I do this, too. It is not good to overload the system with too much at once. 

I also am still using Interceptor as I still have some left and will be using Heartguard once it runs out. I am nervous about the switch but I am glad to hear Kodi has not had issues.

Unfortunately, our weather is very unpredictable with wild temperature swings. On Wednesday, we had a few inches of snow, which covered up the just blooming cherry blossoms that began to bloom after a few warm days. And we have, in the recent past, had intense rains which have left puddles outside. I take Dionna on 2-4 walks per day and at least a few of them are long walks. I vary the routes and she does lots of sniffing and poking her head in bushes.

I love my dog so much! I want to do right by her and sometimes it is hard to know what is best.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lizzie'sMom said:


> Good points to think about and I appreciate learning all I can. There is always the May and December dosing schedule. I am flexible too that I may dose her minimally years that mosquitoes are bad. I don't think I would ever dose year round. I think the fact that our neighborhood sprays for mosquitoes helps. Yes, I think that Lizzie's lifestyle is very different from Kodi's. She does play ball in the yard, but mainly is outdoors on a daily walk or sitting on the porch or on the pool deck!! She could sit on the porch all day long.


I agree completely... Unless I lived in a tropical/subtropical climate (and we have few areas like that in the U.S.... mostly the far S.E.) I would not dose year-round. I think the break from chemicals gives their body a chance to normalize again. I stop flea/tick meds as soon as possible in the fall too. I did have treat dog, cat and house once this winter, but I suspect it was fleas picked up at a trial, not from the outdoors. (and then Kodi got tape worm from the fleas and had to be treated for THAT! YUCK!!!) Even during flea/tick season, I try to stretch that dosing out to 6 weeks, watching carefully for any signs of the little buggers during the last couple of weeks of the cycle. usually every 6 weeks isn't a problem.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

andra said:


> I do this, too. It is not good to overload the system with too much at once.
> 
> I also am still using Interceptor as I still have some left and will be using Heartguard once it runs out. I am nervous about the switch but I am glad to hear Kodi has not had issues.
> 
> ...


Heartworm isn't really a problem when you are having temperature swings. The temperatures have to REMAIN over 57F, even over night, before the microfilaria can develop.

I was really nervous about the switch to Heartguard too. My breeder had a problem with (a different) heartworm med with just one of her dogs. The dog is related to Kodi, though not TOO closely. She had strongly recommended using Interceptor, which she had used safely in all her dogs for many years, including the one who had trouble with the other brand. (I can no longer remember which brand it was) So when I was getting close to the end of my Interceptor supply, we talked, and decided that Heartguard was the next best option. I held my breath giving it to him the first two times, and will feel much more comfortable after he has had a couple more doses. But so far, the only difference I've seen is that I don't have to hide them in cheese, the way I did with the Interceptor. He chews them right up!


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## andra (Aug 23, 2010)

I guess I should have clarified by what I meant by 'temperature swings'--we will have 2-3 very cold days and then 2-3 days of warm and then back to freezing.  This usually happens between winter and spring. I am not sure if that meets the criteria--not that it matters because I give Dionna heartworm year round. I do not do the topical flea/tick year round and I space it out when I give it to her.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

We have always used organic stuff on our lawn because we have beasties and are on wetlands but a year and a half ago we started to spray for mosquitos, fleas and ticks every four weeks. Supposedly, it is an organic product as well. It really cut down on the insects last year. Because we did this, I have stretched out the flea/tick application to 6 weeks. I don't apply them during the winter either.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

andra said:


> I guess I should have clarified by what I meant by 'temperature swings'--we will have 2-3 very cold days and then 2-3 days of warm and then back to freezing.  This usually happens between winter and spring. I am not sure if that meets the criteria--not that it matters because I give Dionna heartworm year round. I do not do the topical flea/tick year round and I space it out when I give it to her.


No, you need two solid weeks of temps above 57F, day and night, for Heartworm to be a problem.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

morriscsps said:


> We have always used organic stuff on our lawn because we have beasties and are on wetlands but a year and a half ago we started to spray for mosquitos, fleas and ticks every four weeks. Supposedly, it is an organic product as well. It really cut down on the insects last year. Because we did this, I have stretched out the flea/tick application to 6 weeks. I don't apply them during the winter either.


We use a Mosquito Magnet, which really helps with mosquitos. Of course, it doesn't help at all with fleas and ticks. But out property is just too large to spray the whole thing, even if I wanted to. ...And, I think a big part of the flea/tick problem is all the wildlife. (which I wouldn't change) we are part of a wildlife corridor that runs through our town, from one conservation area, power lines and farm land, then through our property, to another conservation area on the other side of the street. If there is a species of animal living in Metrowest, we've had it at one time or another!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Yup, we have the power lines, wetlands, wildlife and a little stream too. Luckily, all that is on the other side of a tumbled-down stone wall. So the deer and such don't meander onto the lawn until after dusk. The dogs spend most of the mornings sniffing who invaded the previous night.

We just spray the lawn area where we play.


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## kapowilicious (Mar 19, 2013)

I have a book from the library right now titled "Dr. Pitcairn's New Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats," and in it Dr. Pitcairn (holistic DVM, PhD) talks about how damaging the heartworm meds can be for our animals. I thought that was interesting, and started looking up other articles online.

I found a very informative article on the lifecycle of the heartworm and heartworm prevention by Dr. Jeanette Thomasan here:

http://www.thewholedog.org/heartworm.html

It's lengthy, but I'd love to hear opinions on it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Oh, man. I started off thinking, "Great! Here's a vet who is not owned by the pharmaceutical and pet food companies!" But then I kept reading and she get's totally crazy. She writes:

"This statement is more than just an idle observation, it is the principle that ensures the survival of wild canines, who (think about this now...) suffer far greater exposure to heartworm-carrying mosquitoes then our domestic pets; however, they succumb in far lesser numbers than our domestic dogs! 

Dr. William Falconer, a veterinarian with a homeopathic practice in Austin, Texas states: "The heartworm has been out there forever as far as we know, but we don't read reports of wolves and coyotes being wiped out by heartworm, and yet domestic dogs are falling prey to it." 

First, few wolves live beyond 6 or 7 years old. MOST of us want our pets to survive considerably longer than this. You rarely see sick canids in the wild, because they die pretty quickly when they can no longer feed themselves.

As far as heart worm "wiping out" wolves and coyotes, even if heartworm was a major problem in most of their range (it's not... look at the maps) but heartworm usually doesn't kill quickly. It is entirely possible for them to reproduce (therefore making more little coyotes and wolves) before the disease catches up with them.

Then she writes:

"On the other hand, foxes, coyotes, and wolves go un-vaccinated, eat only raw meat, bones, and a very few herbs and/or berries when there is no meat available." 

I'm not sure about the diet of wolves, I think they are more carnivorous. But BOTH foxes and coyotes eat a LOT of fruits. I've watched foxes become intoxicated from eating so many rotting apples in an orchard, and we have to protect our berry bushes from them as well as other woodland intruders. Furthermore, dogs are NOT wild canids. They have evolved considerably, and even the most "wolf-like" breeds have much smaller jaws and teeth that wolves do. Modern dogs are NOT carnivores. They opportunistic, omnivorous scavengers. A dog, on its own, in the wild, can RARELY feed itself. They hang around human habitation and get into the garbage.

I definitely agree that dogs, in general are over-vaccinated. I think it's irresponsible to suggest that puppies not be vaccinated for Distemper and Parvo. HUGE numbers of puppies used to die of these diseases, and they are a rarity now. (and seen mostly among puppies born to strays) But, IMO, this article goes WAY too far. I also distrust anyone who has an agenda, and then finishes an article, "but buy this from me, and everything will be so much better!" 

As I said about KC vaccine, I think everyone needs to make their own, INFORMED decision on what's best for their animals, based on where they live, exposure to mosquitos, etc. For me, using heartworm meds for the part of the year that Kodi is most at risk makes the most sense to me.


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## kapowilicious (Mar 19, 2013)

I knew I'd get some strong opinions on this, thanks Karen. I learn best when I hear someone argue the issues (I'm sure my husband hates that about me!).

In my book by Dr. Pitcairn, he specifically says he is uncomfortable telling someone to stop giving their animal heartworm medication, because he can't guarantee their dog won't get heartworms. So he seems to provide a more stable outlook on the whole thing. But he also stresses that he does not like the use of heartworm medication. I am thinking about typing up the 2 or so pages he writes on the topic to get some feedback on that, as well.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

kapowilicious said:


> I knew I'd get some strong opinions on this, thanks Karen. I learn best when I hear someone argue the issues (I'm sure my husband hates that about me!).
> 
> In my book by Dr. Pitcairn, he specifically says he is uncomfortable telling someone to stop giving their animal heartworm medication, because he can't guarantee their dog won't get heartworms. So he seems to provide a more stable outlook on the whole thing. But he also stresses that he does not like the use of heartworm medication. I am thinking about typing up the 2 or so pages he writes on the topic to get some feedback on that, as well.


I don't like heartworm meds either, and cringe every time I give them to Kodi... same with flea and tick meds. I guess I just think the alternatives are worse.

Sort of like malaria meds. I KNOW these are bad news, but malaria is too. So when I'm working in swamps in S.E. Asia, I take malaria meds as the lesser of two evils.


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

I was surprised when the Dallas Health Department, a couple weeks ago, said mosquitos have tested positive for West Nile Virus. We had a cold winter with below freezing temps and the spring has been cold. I didn't think the mosquitos would be out until June.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

nancyf said:


> I was surprised when the Dallas Health Department, a couple weeks ago, said mosquitos have tested positive for West Nile Virus. We had a cold winter with below freezing temps and the spring has been cold. I didn't think the mosquitos would be out until June.


We've already had mosquitos up here in the "frozen north", so I'm not surprised!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

lol, mosquitos not out till JUNE!?? lol Fairly certain we have them year round!


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## Caroline (Oct 9, 2012)

Great links here- appreciate the info. 

Dodds and Schultz is legitimate research. I was very comfortable with switching to this approach, as I felt it was backed up by good data, with more to come. Always looking for more information on this. Thanks for the links- great stuff.

I was also a little leery of Jeannette Thomason's site ...a little too polarized for me, and without data to support some of her claims. We don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water, so to speak. I see puppies with Parvo in the rescue I volunteer with once in a while, and it's terrible. Important to make these decisions based on evidence.


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