# Puppy Underbite



## Petaluna

I wondered if anyone can weigh in on this.... my breeder informed me last week that Violet is developing an underbite, which I was disappointed to hear, since truthfully my hope was to bring home a dog with no obvious problems at the outset after so much research and preparation. No guarantees beyond that, I know, but I'd feel better about being assured there was nothing special up front needing attention. It isn't something she typically finds in her dogs, but she says it's not generally a functional problem, and may even self-correct with another growth spurt. (I have read both ways on an internet search - some say it can very well correct, others say rarely). I didn't think this would be a deal-breaker, and still probably isn't, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if I need to ask more questions or get some opinions.

Several things.... I am not fond of that look, but I'm sure I could get past it once I started bonding with her. I know it sounds kind of shallow, but, you know, I picked the color I wanted, sex, etc... part of the perks of buying and expensive purebred, you get to be a little bit picky about the whole package, I just got a bit of a curve ball. She's healthy, otherwise. 

Also, what if it gets worse and DOES cause functional problems....? I can't figure out if my reservations now are me getting my feathers ruffled because things aren't "going as planned" and this is actually a minor issue, or whether it's something I should actually be concerned about because it could mean some large dental bills right around the corner. 

I called a dental vet I used to take my yorkie to and only talked to the front desk, but she said more often than not, an underbite is typically only an aesthetic issue. Of course they won't tell me much without looking at her, so that would be one of our first visits on bringing her home. They do a lot of oral surgery and orthodontia on dogs (never knew until today that people actually put braces on their dogs), but they can't recommend anything one way or the other before looking at her. 

I'm sort of surprised that I feel torn, you'd think after all this time I'd 100% accept whatever she comes with and wouldn't think twice that this changes anything, but if this could turn into something more major...it does worry me. 

Anyone here have knowledge or experience about this? Particularly the breeders? We are 5 days away from getting her, and in a perfect world I'd like her to see a dental vet before she comes home with us, but I don't know if that's an option at this late date, unless we postpone the pickup, which I hate to do because she'll already be 11 1/2 weeks.


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## MopTop Havanese

I know a few Havanese with underbites, and it hasn't affected them at all-
I don't believe any of them have had any issues with their underbites, nor have they required any surgery or other dental procedures.


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## ama0722

I think there might be a thread with Trish and her little boy where they told her he would have to have surgery and he grew up just fine. Maybe those who have havs with underbites could post photos to help you see what it looks like as an adult.

Hugs,
Amanda


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## Petaluna

Thanks, Katie. That is reassuring. It would be heartbreaking to have to pull out and not honor what I feel is a commitment at this stage, but I don't know much about underbites and whether anyone can predict at this age if it would progress to something more serious, I guess that's my concern - whether we are buying into a potentially expensive and painful problem. I am really hoping it's something that could and will self-correct. I need to find out more about the tug games, balls, etc that might help, I did talk briefly to my breeder about that, whose dental vet recommended that for a different dog.


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## Petaluna

Thanks, Amanda. Trish's little boy - human or canine??


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## ama0722

Okay, it ends up he had an overbite. But here is an old thread where I remember her going thru the same fears, etc and everything turned out fine.

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=1158&highlight=winston+underbite


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## Petaluna

Thanks, Amanda. I'll check it out. I tend to jump to the worst case scenario in my head (makes my husband crazy), and so of course I wondered if I was about to have my dreams dashed.


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## Lina

I'm not sure, Diane. How obvious is it? Can your breeder take a picture of it to show you? It might be so minor that you can't even notice it...

Truthfully I think I'm just as shallow as you then as I really dislike underbites. I'm not a fan of the look at all - which is why I don't like Shih Tzus - and I'm not sure how happy I'd be knowing that my puppy would have an obvious underbite. I'm sure once you have her and are bonded to her you wouldn't care less - and probably would find it endearing - but it's really up to you whether this is a deterrent for you getting her now or not. How set are you on this puppy? You've been waiting for her for a long time! It really is just a minor aesthetic issue but you're more than entitled to an opinion on the subject and if it's something that really won't make you happy, I don't really think anyone can judge you on whatever you decide. It's your money after all. 

That being said, I'm sure you will love her no matter what she looks like in the end... they're very much like having your own kids in that respect, I think.


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## mckennasedona

Diane, it all depends on how severe the underbite I suppose. McKenna was sold as a pet because she had an underbite. It gave her a very cute look as a tiny puppy and as she got older you couldn't tell. I think she outgrew it but even though I do check her teeth when I brush them I haven't paid much attention to her bite. It has never caused a bit of trouble nor has a vet ever even commented on it. Now, if it was a severe underbite, I'd be concerned.

Here's a photo of McKenna at 10 weeks old and one from November 07. (Forgive the messy house and bad haircuts on the girls. I don't have a recent photo of McKenna on my computer here at work.)


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## Renee

Both of my dogs have underbites. Miley was sold to us at a discount because of her underbite. But truthfully, I do not notice it on her anymore. Not sure if she just outgrew it, or I'm used to it now. I do notice Copper's underbite when he looks at me a certain way, but I think it's cute. Probably because I adore him. His sweet little eyes literally melt your heart. 
Is the breeder willing to discount the pup because of the underbite? 
It would not deter me from getting her because it's just becomes part of their personality, but that's a personal decision...


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## Petaluna

Lina, she did send a pic, and i can definitely see it, though I don't have an educated eye for this. She was very up front about it, and when we spoke on the phone, I hadn't done any research or asked around, so I wasn't overly concerned about functional issues, just a little disappointed that she might not be as "pretty." After doing some reading, I'm just unsure about which way it's likely to go, if that can even be predicted at this age. I read that whole thread Amanda linked me to, and someone who I think is a breeder piped in that she has seen plenty of overbites correct, but that an underbite almost never does. 

Susan, thanks for the pics. That first puppy pic resembles what she looks like around her mouth, slight hint of bottom teeth, lower lip protruded just a bit. Your dog looks perfectly lovely as an adult. My hunch is there is really no way to know right now whether it will get worse, whether she'll grow out of it (or at least sort of into it), or present any functional problems. Basically, it's a gamble. Though any dog you get comes with some uncertainty about the future, not having a crystal ball. 

I don't think this is likely to change anything about my decision, but I might give her a call and see if she can talk to her dental vet about Violet, or arrange for me to speak to him so I can get another opinion about what to expect, and whether there are noninvasive options to help her upper jaw grow more. I wouldn't put her through any procedures just because of aesthetics, only if she had a functional problem, which I am hoping doesn't happen. 

I have not seen her in over a month, when she was only six weeks old, so it's possible that all my concerns about whether I'm adopting a potentially expensive and difficult problem will likely go out the window once I get a chance to snuggle her again. This is a rather emotional "purchase," with so many attached hopes and expectations, all the waiting, nail biting and preparation....I guess bringing home a puppy that has a known issue is a bit of a leap of faith that everything will turn out for the best. It certainly could be worse, I mean it's not like it's a liver shunt or something. We might find that even if it never corrects, she'll get along fine and we won't be able to imagine life without her, looking back.


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## Kathie

Diane, Abby has what was described as a crossbite and just once in a while I can see her teeth showing on one side but either it has lessened or I am used to it (not sure which)! I will look through my pictures later and see if it is visible on any of them and if so, will post them. We did have a poodle whose bite was off a bit and she did have problems as far as needing cleaned more than usual. I am looking into all the different products that reduce or prevent plaque to use for Abby so we don't have to go through that problem again because it can get expensive.

I think I would ask the breeder for a discount, though.



Kathie


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## juliav

Petaluna said:


> Several things.... I am not fond of that look, but I'm sure I could get past it once I started bonding with her. I know it sounds kind of shallow, but, you know, I picked the color I wanted, sex, etc... part of the perks of buying and expensive purebred, you get to be a little bit picky about the whole package, I just got a bit of a curve ball. She's healthy, otherwise.


Don't feel bad about being torn. I guess I am shallow as well, as I don't care for the underbite in dogs (no shih tzus and such for me) and am not sure I would get one with underbite if I knew about it ahead of time. Having said that, I've seen some minor underbites that are not even noticeable. Unless underbite is really sever, it won't cause her any pain or problems eating her food. I have never seen an under or over bite self correct, either in dogs or in humans (both kids had braces).

Eidted to add that you are allowed to be unsure, afterall you will have to see/be with this baby for the next 12 to 15 years, it better be what you want health and looks wise.


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## CacheHavs

Diane,
I have had experience with bad bites in dogs. The one thing I can say is it usually does not ever cause them a problem. Also keep in mind that they are still growing at this age and a lot can change in the next few months. I had a little bitch who was very nice and had a perfect bite, but at the age of six going on seven months her bite went under. 
Today she still has the undershot bite, but if you look hat her you can't tell. Things like this could happen at any time, I wouldn't let it be a deal breaker for you.

I have seen both over bites as well as under bites self correct, but more times they do not.


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## Petaluna

Thanks you guys. I guess I feel like I started the ball rolling on this and it's hard for me to imagine backing out at this late date, I have been so excited about her arrival and counting the days. Thanks for not thinking I'm a horrible person for not appreciating the cuteness of an underbite....lol! At least with all the fluffy Hav hair, it will probably be less noticeable.

If I had only just started looking now and was presented with her as an option, knowing about the bite, I would probably pass, since it's uncertain whether it will be a functional problem, but I feel like I've already committed, at least emotionally, not to mention she'll be almost 3 months this weekend and moving quickly toward an age where she might be harder to place, so I feel obligated in that respect as well. I really like my breeder and I know this surprised her as much as it did me, so it's really just luck of the draw. She's so sweet and pretty in every other respect, from what I can tell from our brief visit and photos, and I can't imagine we won't love her. I am ready for my dog NOW, you know? I think I'd mentally lose it if I felt I had to start all over again because the puppy I picked turned out not to be "perfect," and I'm not sure this is serious enough to warrant that. I think I will call her for more info again, though. I will feel better if I can talk it out a bit more, maybe I can speak by phone to her dental vet as well.


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## hedygs

Diane knowing you I can imagine how this information has thrown you for a loop. It wasn't part of the plan was it? I guess when you go to see her to pick her up, you will see how bad her underbite is and you can make a decision then.

Domino had a pretty pronounced underbite. His breeder (if I recall this correctly) had sold him as a puppy with lovely teeth but his adult teeth came in badly and back he was sent to the breeder. For us, those goofy teeth made for the perpetual grin he had. Well he did have a girn always I guess. I hate to bore others by repeating myself but we called him our "Cheshire dog" because of that constant grin. I did have to explain to others who though he was baring his teeth that he was harmless.

Now Gitter also has a tiny underbite and sometimes I notice it and sometimes not. He's a cutie babootie regardless.

Diane do not make a decision without seeing her and then make a decision based on what will work for you. Only you know the answer to that. Right?


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## Kathie

Diane, I'm not sure if the crossbite is quite the same but here you can see that Abby's mouth on the right is up a little higher. I had to look a long time to find a picture where it even shows. I know this might be a hard decision to make but you do whatever feels right to you. We all want a perfect little dog! Abby IS my perfect dog...lol


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## Petaluna

Hi Kathie, that makes her look extra cute, actually. Has she had any dental issues as a result? I know whatever dog you fall in love with becomes your perfect dog. I had this fantasy that if I could escape any obvious issues at the outset, I'd have a better chance of making it through her life without her needing expensive and painful procedures. My yorkie had to have a lot of stuff done, primarily with her teeth, and it was hard on her (and my wallet) and stressful for both of us. I think that's part of the reason that the word underbite scares me a little... I planned to take very good care of this little girl's teeth so as not to have to put her through what I did my yorkie, so hopefully an underbite is not going to mean mucho dental work. My husband would have a cow if he know going into it we'd be dropping a large amount of cash in the near future for something like that. 

Oh, I did talk to my breeder tonight, and she's taking her for another visit to a clinic that has a specialized vet who does dentistry. She couldn't get an appt. with him on short notice, but she'll see his colleague, who will call him in for a quick consult if he has concerns. This will all happen before I'm scheduled to pick her up, so I'm glad for another opinion. 

Right now I don't see this changing our plans, probably the only reason I'd reconsider is if her vet says it looks really bad and there's a serious cause for concern, which I'm doubting is the case. I've put too much into getting ready for this specific dog, I don't know if I can change course now and not have a meltdown. I don't really know her yet, but I've gotten attached to the idea of her.


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## Havtahava

Diane, I see a couple of different issues here. First of all, your preference is your preference and you're entitled to that, however, no breeder can promise that when they send home a puppy that young with the correct bite that it won't go off either. If that were the case, how would you handle it?

Secondly, the bite could get better or it could get worse. There is no way for you to tell when you see her in five days. 

Should you decide to take her anyway, it will be important to watch for those adult canine teeth emerging and to keep in touch with your dental vet before then to see if he/she wants to do something particular when they erupt.


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## irnfit

Shelby developed an underbite. I understand your not wanting to spend all that money and not get the perfect pup. I guess if I had to choose, I would have picked a pup with a perfect bite. But, I can tell you for sure that it never interferes with anything she does. She eats fine, chews bones, and can chew on my hand, too. I guess at this point it has grown on us and we wouldn't trade her for a better bite. Here's a pic.


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## Petaluna

Thanks for weighing in, Kimberly. Yes, I know there are no guarantees. Actually more so now after reading about it, I wasn't aware that a good scissor bite can go bad, it's not something I thought to discuss ahead of time with my breeder. I somehow missed that topic in my initial research. It sounds now like it might be more common than I realized. 

If I took home a puppy with a perfect bite and it went off, by that time I'd be in love with the dog and would deal with it according to vet recommendations. It's just such a weird in between phase - finding out about it now, when we're right on the cusp of bringing her home, have done all this planning and preparation, and yet haven't had the opportunity to really bond with her yet, she's still sort of an adorable stranger and hasn't really become "our dog," otherwise I'm sure I wouldn't even be talking about this. 

I guess I had the idea (or maybe now I should say fantasy) that a dog who had no obvious problems on taking her home would be less likely to develop them in the future, but perhaps when it comes to bite, it's kind of up in the air, and just not something I was aware of until, well, today. I haven't had enough time to digest it I guess. 

I still don't think it's going to change my plans, and actually I feel better having talked to my breeder again today, esp. since she'll be getting checked for it before we go to pick her up, so hopefully it will all work out, we'll be happy with our choice, and she won't need much, if any intervention.


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## Sheri

Diane, you've been such a hyper-researcher, it's no wonder this kind of threw you off your paces. You'll be able to work it through and figure it out, now, with time to ask these good folks for their input. You never know until you ask and find out what may or may not be involved. Hopefully this will put your mind at ease, whatever you decide.

Your breeder sure sounds like a keeper!


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## Petaluna

Shelby is very sweet! Do her lower teeth protrude and are exposed all the time? I can't tell from the pic. It sounds like it does not cause any particular dental problems, more cosmetic?

I understand how you would, on hindsight, not "trade her in", despite the fact you would have preferred a normal bite. That's kind of how I feel - I wouldn't choose it, but once she becomes part of our family, I'm sure I won't be able to imagine life without her. The only reason I'm conflicted is that I have spent the last 2 months getting attached to her being "The One," if I was just now puppy shopping, I would probably pass on a dog with a known underbite. I feel committed to this one, even though she's not here yet.


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## Kathie

Diane, I know how you feel. I was all excited and ready for Abby when I found out about the bite problem. I went ahead and took the plunge, however. Next month she will be two and has had no problems at all. My husband drove over 300 miles (each way!) this past weekend to go to the GA playdate so you KNOW he loves his little princess! 

Kathie


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang

Here's a pic of Pepper, who has a very noticeable underbite. We lovingly call him 'the wolfman' because he reminds us of Lon Chaney's look in that classic movie. Mind you, I'm not a fan of breeds with underbites because I don't relish the look, but Pepper's personality completely outshines any physical faults he might have. In fact, he's such a character that his personality actually makes his physical faults cute in our eyes. I guess that's true love :biggrin1:

Pepper also has one lower canine tooth that is slightly askew. It all adds to his charm, in my opinion. Neither of these faults affect his quality of life in any way. He eats and chews with the best of them - only he looks more adorable doing it! 

Whatever you decide, it'll be the right decision for you.


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## Petaluna

Pepper's mom, thanks for posting that. I know you love your little guy, and I'm sure I would too....no doubt all the "bad bite" pups steal your heart despite the funny face, but I am gonna cry if hers is that severe...not what I had dreamed of for my $1500 dog.....


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## Beamer

Diane,

Like other that have commented, I guess I'm a bit shallow to... for $1500 you would probably expect to get a puppy without these issues. If it were to happen after the fact, then thats a different story, since I don't think its possible to give up a puppy you have fallen in love with... But now is your opratunity to do what you need to do... At least the breeder did not try to hide it from the unsuspecting buyer! (now thats a plus!)

Ryan


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## Lunastar

Diane are you planning to show? If so you need to rethink this pup. If not you need to decide how attached you are to the idea of this pup. Is there another from this breeder that you would rather have?


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## Amy R.

Getting a puppy is so much like having children. It's a leap of faith, and no matter how well-planned and researched the purchase and how well-bred the puppy, stuff crops up that you just cannot control. But you make a commitment , and that's that. You do fall in love with the whole dog and the whole child, and all kinds of things happen on that journey that are unexpected but that make it interesting and enriching. 

However, if you did plan to seriously show this dog, and that was an important part of your decision and motivation, you might want to reconsider this particular puppy. However, as Kimberly points out, there are no guarantees, and stuff happens to the best of show puppies who were perfect when purchased.

Biscuit had a pretty pronounced overbite when we bought him, but we found it charming. It has gotten better over time and has never caused him any real problems.


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## pjewel

I'm not weighing in on the issue, just had to comment on how adorable all these babies with their imperfect, perfect looks are. I want to hug each and every one. The only other thing I can say is when I thought I might not get Bailey when his breeder was having second thoughts about keeping him I was as devastated as I would have been if someone had physically taken him away from me. I was so bonded to that baby that I'd never seen or touched. He was mine from the first time I saw his picture.


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## sweater32

Kathy, I love that picture, it is so dang cute!!! Diane, my two boys had their yearly check up when the vet said that Simba had an under bite, I had to look for I never realized it and sure enough there it was. It is very slight and he had a perfect bite as a puppy. Bailey on the other hand had what they call an imature bite. His teeth were very crooked when he was a puppy and I wasn't told it until we traveled to go pick them up. The breeder stated she just noticed it. However, I already made the decision two puppies at the same time. I watched them grow dailythrough pictures and I couldn't leave him behind. I was only interest in raising them as pets and agility,not to show. When we went to our vet, she pointed out disturbing things about Baileys bite. Two of his bottom teeth were growing in such a way that they were actually starting to puncture holes in the roof of his mouth. Luckily they straighten out enough and corrected itself and he has no problem with chewing...trust me!! But, I do remember the vet saying "you think you have a lot of money invested now in the boys, you don't even want to see the cost of a vet dentist." Yet, there was Simba with the perfect mouth at the time. They are just like kids.... you never know.


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## LuvCicero

Diane, I also have to post my thoughts. I sense your worry and disappointment. I had one puppy that developed an underbite AFTER I got her. I loved her so much, but always wished she didn't have the underbite as her teeth did show some. I think when we pay $$$$ we do want a dog without issues. Only you know how you feel and you have every right to have your feelings. If you are already in love then she will be a cutie to you no matter if her teeth do show a little. You should be thrilled and love your choice when you get a pup. If you have any doubt or disappointment, then it's time to look elsewhere IMO. I wouldn't go to bed my first night wishing...I would go to bed thinking I had the cutest, most perfect Hav in the world. If you go back to see her, you will know how you feel and know if she is "the one" when you are looking into her eyes.


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## moxie

Pepper's Mom,
Your baby is divine.


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## ama0722

I also agree with Dale and Ryan even if that makes me shallow. While if any one of my dogs had to have an eye removed, a leg, etc. I would love them unconditionally but it is different once you live together. If you don't feel 100% like this is your perfect dog, no harm in waiting. Didn't you say your breeder had other litters as well? I think everyone should be thrilled when you get your new puppy (I just spoke to Carole yesterday and she is thru the roof in excitement and that is how it should be!). And whether it be considered shallow by some, you need to go with what makes you 100% happy. These dogs aren't cheap and get what you want. Obviously, I always say health and personality should be first and it sounds like you are happy in that regard, but you should be completely comfortable with your new addition. This is the exciting time. Next week is when you say what the heck did I do when you are cleaning up accidents 

I would also say this is the time to talk to your breeder about what would happen if your puppy did have to have surgery, teeth removed, etc. Does you contract help cover that? I am not trying to scare, just be prepared either way. Hopefully it corrects itself and you never look back but sometimes that doesn't happen.


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## Petaluna

Thanks you guys. I woke up this morning thinking I don't know how I can walk away from this over what is likely a cosmetic issue. After all this planning and preparation, I kind of can't get my head around starting over with a different puppy/different breeder. If it doesn't correct... well, it's not what I wanted, and I think I'll be a little disappointed, but like you all said, there are no guarantees on anything, and as bite goes, even a puppy with a perfect bite could go off later. I don't intend to show her, and the likely scenario is I would love her anyway. 

Most everyone has been saying (including my vet, who I called yesterday) that an underbite rarely presents a functional problem, so I'm thinking the absolute worst case scenario with her would be that it gets more pronounced, her lower teeth stick out all the time, and possibly she has to have a few teeth pulled if they poke into tissue (which right now, one is just a bit, which apparently doesn't mean the adult canine will, though it could). I'm thinking that's the worst case. And- maybe it could get better, or at least not worse, that being the best case scenario.

I have not met a Hav I don't like, and I know I could be happy with virtually any well bred puppy, it's not like I wouldn't love a different choice just as much as I'd love this one - whoever we bring home I'm sure would become "The One," but it's hard for me to stand back and be objective about that after looking at her pictures for the last 10 weeks, meeting her, planning for her, and getting attached to the idea of her, even though we haven't had a chance to truly bond.

My husband told me last night he'd "set the intention" to see how he felt about her in the morning, to have it come to him I guess about what was the right thing to do, and he told me this morning he thought we should pass. I kind of had the opposite feeling, though it wasn't a total a-ha moment. I will say I don't trust his judgment about this right now because something has totally been up his butt lately, he's usually really easy going, but he's been kind of a jerk half the time the last couple weeks, argumentative for no particular reason, so I'm not inclined to listen to his radar because I think it's off right now. 

Probably what will happen is I'll wait to hear from her breeder once she sees this vet on Friday, hoping that the dental vet gets a chance to look at her too that day, and make a final decision when I see her on Sunday. I'm hoping I'll have my big ah-ha moment when I see her again in person. I'd feel better if my husband was on board with getting her, but whatever. This has kind of been my gig from the start.


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## Missy

Diane, I think now is the time to think about your preferences when you are only attached to the idea of Violet. I think you have to think about how you would feel if down the line Violet's bite got more pronounced. 

From experience, I know you will end up loving and even find endearing those things that are not perfect about your pup, but it will increase the MHS virus because you will always want "the next one" to be perfect. 

Yup, I let the "I am getting a puppy" emotions sway my decision not once but twice! Now you know how much I love my boys... but I will share to help you confront your own misgivings... with Jasper, it was his coloring... I said I never wanted a white dog and he had lightened so much in just 8 weeks...in my head I knew he would be mostly white...but my heart who really wanted a puppy NOW said "well maybe he will stay silver or get his color back." 

With Cash it was his tail and his likely size. He has what is called a lazy tail and it is down as much as it is up-- and his size, he was predicted to be about 18 lbs and he is 23. 

Now, the boys are 3 and 2 years old. And in many ways I think they are the most beautiful dogs in the world. I love Jasper's expressions and they would not be as evident in a darker dog. And Cash, well he is my big goof, with a tail that when it is up is the most gorgeous tail in the world and when it is down he is my miniature Newfie. LOL. But neither of my boys are perfect Havs...so I do find myself thinking about the next one. 

What ever you decide you will not regret it. If you take Violet you will love her to pieces, if you wait for the next litter you will also love the next puppy too.


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## pjewel

Diane,

Your husband may be a little nervous about the whole idea of starting the whole puppy process at this time. I think you're right and you'll know when you see her. Even though you say you're not bonded to her, there is something that causes us to become attached to the puppy we're about to adopt. I can't explain it but would liken it to having made a decision to adopt a baby, getting pictures and falling in love, preparing the room and in every way making ready for the addition. That becomes your child long before he or she is put into your arms.


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## Havtahava

ama0722 said:


> I would also say this is the time to talk to your breeder about what would happen if your puppy did have to have surgery, teeth removed, etc. Does you contract help cover that? I am not trying to scare, just be prepared either way. Hopefully it corrects itself and you never look back but sometimes that doesn't happen.


This is a very good point, especially in light of the fact that the bite is off already.

One other thing I failed to mention is that a misaligned jaw can lead to faster periodontal disease, so it will be your responsibility to ensure that your puppy has extra care in this area. You can do regular teeth brushing to assist and prevent problems, but you may need to do some additional care than what a person would do with a normal scissor bite (e.g. brushing in places that is not normally needed with a correct bite). Make sure you get coaching on this from your vet or dental vet.


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## Duncan'sMom

Hi Diane ~ I just saw this thread. I really have no advice, but I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this just a few short days before you leave. The whole time I was reading this, I was just imagining going through the same thing. We are so attached to our little guy and we have never even met him yet! I have no idea what I would do.

Now you know that I am totally calling our breeder this weekend to check on Duncan and ask about his bite  (But don't worry I won't mention any of this to her.) I am happy to hear that she was so upfront about it ~ I am sure she will work with you in regard with whatever you decide to do.


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## mckennasedona

Diane,
It's never too late to back out, except once you've held that puppy in your arms. We never had a thought about McKenna's bite so it didn't matter but if it had, once we held her in our arms and saw her prance across the puppy cage on her back feet doing her happy dance, she could have been minus an ear an eye and a lung and we'd have fallen madly in love with her. 
Even a dog with a good bite can develop issues. Sedona has a good bite but had a puppy canine tooth that was growing in a way that would have punctured the roof of her mouth. The doggie dentist was concerned about the adult tooth following the same growth pattern. We had the puppy canine removed and kept an eye on the adult as it came in and it came in just fine. I'm glad we had a doggie dentist to consult with though. Did you know they actually have braces for dogs! 
$1500 is a lot to spend so you should get as close to what you would expect as you can. 
I'm not terribly helpful though. I love the imperfections. I'll take the ones with bad bites, limps, etc. Send em my way!!


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## Petaluna

Thanks Susan, I know what you mean. I think I'll know for sure once I see her again. It's not really about the money, but yeah, it's a chunk of change, and part of the reason I wanted to spend it vs. going with rescue was thinking it was my best insurance to get a puppy with no issues to start, though the more people weigh in, the more I realize that's kind of a fantasy and anything could crop up later, never a guarantee. If I had a crystal ball and could project ahead to how much I'd love her after we had some more time together, I could probably save myself the worry. 

Ah, there's a reason I don't have human kids! Too easy to upset my apple cart with twists of fate.  I'm asking myself if that's the lesson here, that I need to let go of my attachment to the idea that things should be a certain way, and to learn to go with the flow. At any rate, I'm anxious to hear what the vet she is taking her to has to say, and very happy that she was willing to go the extra mile to get that opinion before we arrive on Sunday. She's been very up front about everything and I have absolutely no complaints, it's just an unfortunate growth anomaly.


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## Havtahava

Petaluna said:


> ... the more I realize that's kind of a fantasy and anything could crop up later, never a guarantee.


That's exactly right! 
The only real solace and "guarantee" that you want to set in place is how the breeder will deal with you on anything that may potentially come up down the road. You just happen to be lucky to have this odd nuance pop up in advance so you can see how she (breeder) will handle it if you need to do anything extra. *Get it in writing too.* If it isn't in the contract when you go to pick up your puppy, hand write whatever you two have agreed to orally and if she doesn't agree to sign it at that point, you know you'll have saved yourself the time and hassle and that there is another puppy waiting for you with another breeder.


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## eurobichons

We have treated several havanese with underbite from a variety of Breeders, most have resolved with an increasing amount of protein in the diet, so less carb based dried foods and use more fresh meaty bones, this works well and the dogs jaw benefit from it also.


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## Petaluna

Thanks Kimberly, we haven't discussed the issue of future support and involvement if the bite goes in a really problematic direction, but I think it would be based on how severe the problem was, and she doesn't think it's going to be bad. She says the few times she has seen puppies with severely bad bites, she's noticed it much earlier in the game. 

Eurobichons, thanks for the input - that was my hunch, actually, getting her on a more protein based diet could potentially help normalize her growth, and I was planning to do NV, Bravo or Oma's Pride, etc. and talk to my holistic vet about RMB. I do think raw is very healthy for them, my yorkie did quite well on it, but I've been nervous about feeding whole bones. There might even be a nutritional supplement that would help normal growth. 

The one thing I discussed with my breeder and also read about was that in a case like this, the lower puppy incisors can create a block to the upper jaw growing when their mouth is closed, so some dental vets will suggest pulling them (which I would hate to put her through), or alternatively playing tug games, encouraging them to chew and have the mouth open more often than not, etc., as a conservative approach.


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## mellowbo

Here's Lulu's cute little underbite. She came from the breeder this way at 16 weeks without me being forewarned. Kudo's to your breeder for informing you! 
I wouldn't trade this little imperfection for the world!


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## hedygs

Lulu is lovely and I love that little underbite she has. Gitter's underbite is similar. Domino's on the other hand was pretty severe. Of course, my teeth aren't so wonderful either so I'm lucky that Gitter can't send me back...


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## Lina

Diane, I definitely agree with what Kimberly and others are saying that problems can arise with any puppy and this is something that you need to prepare yourself for, being a person who doesn't like to be thrown for a loop - not judging you at all, just what I've noticed about you... I'm a lot like that myself as well. I do tons of research and make sure I'm completely read up on a subject before embarking in it, though I've been working on (and getting better at) letting things go once they're actually here because at that point you can't change much.

That being said, I do have to say that I know what Missy is saying about wanting that "perfect" puppy. I've been SO lucky in that looks-wise I think that Kubrick and Hitchcock are just incredibly gorgeous and were like that from day 1. If they develop problems NOW that would cause an aesthetic issue, I would definitely not love them any less - they are MY dogs after all - but I'm trying to be honest with you in telling you that if they had an aesthetic problem from the get-go that I found would really bother me (such as an underbite) I probably wouldn't have gotten them. Everyone has their preferences and their quirks and as long as you're making sure to go for personality first and THEN rule out aesthetic preferences, I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. Our quirks included first off no all-white dogs. Not that they can't be beautiful - they are! - but it's really not something neither of us (DH and I) like. My second preference, which I'm sure I could have worked around if I really fell in love with a dog, was the face. I really wanted a dog with a dark face as I really dislike tear stains and didn't want to have to deal with them. Third, I also am not a fan of the really short muzzle. This is something that wasn't required at all for me, but I do PREFER a slightly longer muzzle length. Remember how I mentioned I really don't like Shih Tzu's? Well, one reason is the underbite and the other is the squooshed face... so a noticeable muzzle was important to me aesthetically. Hitchcock's muzzle is actually shorter than Kubrick's, but it's still well pronounced. Luckily for me, both my pups have these aesthetic preferences of mine and I find them perfect for me! 

Again, that is NOT to say that I wouldn't love a dog that wasn't perfect at all, but I don't think I'd lay down $2,000 (or however much you're paying) for a puppy that I wasn't 100% happy with from the get-go... if they develop issues later that's one thing I'm totally and completely ready to deal with and I would never ever stop loving them for any aesthetic issues, but right from the beginning I have to say that you need to start with being completely and totally happy with your puppy. This is just my opinion, I hope I'm not offending anyone here.


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## Petaluna

Lulu is adorable, and that underbite is barely noticeable, at least on that photo. I think I'm just disappointed my perfect little dog isn't perfect, and a bit nervous about the unknowns, since it seems like anything could happen. I'm very curious to hear what the vet will say, though. 

Lina, I think we have similar preferences, and I would have passed up this puppy if I was just now being introduced to her, but I've had all these weeks of assuming she was the one I was bringing home, and I haven't even looked at any other puppies since. Do you think you could back out at the last minute in a similar situation because of an aesthetic/preference issue that presented at the 11th hour? It's hard for me to imagine doing that, after putting SO much energy into this search and being SURE I had found my dog. I was talking to her breeder before she was even born, and reserved her when she was only days old. 

I left it that I'd talk to her on Friday after she visits with the vet, and told her I didn't think this was going to change my plans to get her unless the vet thought she was headed for a more severe problem. I'll admit it's taken the wind out of my sails a bit in terms of the new puppy excitement factor, but I'm hoping once I see her I'll have a clearer picture, I would not make any hard decisions one way or the other before at least getting the vet opinion and seeing her again. She is probably a fantastic dog, otherwise, and I think I would totally lose it if I had to come home without a puppy this weekend, after EVERYTHING. Her ex-pen has been set up behind my desk for over a month, I've got probably 50 toys for her, 2 beds, a blanket, food, about 10 different kinds of treats, a puppy class reservation and a whole bunch of friends and family waiting to meet her. Dang, I hate curve balls... raining on my parade!


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## DAJsMom

As you get to know any puppy (or older dog, for that matter) you are going to notice flaws. Sometimes you can see flaws before you bring them home and other times you can't. 
Dusty grows crazy amounts of tartar on her teeth. Dental care is big for her. We didn't know this before we brought her home, and she was seven months old when we met her. She also has tear staining which I don't like, but it's manageable. If I could have requested ahead of time with any certainty, I would have preferred a dog with no tear staining and no tartar problems, but she is beautiful anyway and smart and energetic. 
Indie is black so no tear staining, and has great teeth. She also scratches her face a lot. She doesn't hurt herself, but the hair does not grow long on her muzzle. Nothing I have tried has made any difference. I could see she had short muzzle hair when we first met her, but at 11 months she was still young. I thought it would grow more and it hasn't. She also has some trouble with submissive or excitement urination. Not what I would have preferred. She is the sweetest dog there is, and I would never give her back. Maybe I would have picked a different dog had I known about these ahead of time, but then our family would have missed out on Indie and that would have been missing out on a lot!
You're not going to get a perfect dog in every respect but you may have already found the perfect dog for you! Good luck working through this. It sounds like your breeder has been very willing to help you and answer questions. That is invaluable.


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## eurobichons

I know some breeders like to use dried foods, but in reality they are not how any dog should eat, there is some evidence that low protein causes malocclussion and that we have found by feeding a raw diet the dogs are extremely healthy, have excellent teeth, pigment and coats, they also dont have maloclussion . 

Try bravo foods or if in the UK try prize choice, even buy some from the butcher.
This is what ours eat daily a choice from :

apple, pear, cucumber, lamb fillet, lamb chops, chicken wings, poultry neck, salmon (cooked ) tripe, carrot batons, brocolli (In moderation) brown oats, pilchards as they are higher in protein than steak. Sardines, duck, venison, goat . cheese and goat milk.Spirulina.

They are all well fed , happy with superb teetha nd bones, and they are all the correct weight.


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## Petaluna

Wise words, Joelle, thank you! Hindsight will paint a clear picture, I'm sure. My most recent thought is I _can't _see myself three months from now regretting getting her. She'll probably totally steal my heart a little more each day, and may be an absolute perfect match for us in every other way.

My yorkie was an impulse purchase, and in many ways not the best choice for me, but I can't imagine not having her and would not have traded her in. I did my homework this time, knew that a Havanese was the breed for me, from nose to tail I love everything about them, all different, though I'm most drawn to the ones who resemble the "standard." I'm a planner who likes to know what's around the corner, which is stupid because you can never really know. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow, and then won't I feel silly for spending my last few days fussing over an underbite....lol!

Wish me luck that my heart gives me the definitive answer when we see her on Sunday. I know which way I'm leaning, but I'll feel more confident about it once I get to see her in person again.


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## juliav

Lina,

You and I are completely opposite. No one in my family likes dark dogs and especially no dark faces. That was the main deal breaker and we just love cream/white dogs....probably why I have two.  We just can't seem to ond with dogs whose faces we can't see.


Diane - I am confident that once you hear the report from the vet on Friday and see your puppy on Sunday you will know what to do.


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## Mraymo

Petaluna said:


> If I had a crystal ball and could project ahead to how much I'd love her after we had some more time together, I could probably save myself the worry.


I don't have a crystal ball but I bet you'll love her very much. I kind of went thru this before I picked up Izzy. It was related to the wording of the guarantee. I was really freaked out. I thought is this a sign I shouldn't get her. I had spent a long while researching and talking to many breeders. I was really concerned about health issues because I went thru a really traumatic experience with Ruby, my dog prior to Izzy. I was afraid to get a dog that may have health issues, I really drove myself crazy. When Ruby was sick, I promised myself I'd know all the medical history of the next dog I brought home(Ruby was a rescue and I knew nothing about her family history). Anyway, I just really had to relax and just wait for my intuition. It all worked out in the long run but it was a difficult process. I tend to over think things and I don't know that I'd feel 100% about anything. I always tend to look at the worst case scenario and freak myself out. I think, in some way, I think if I worry enough I'll be prepared for the unexpected. I have to work at turning things over and remembering everything happens for a reason. God doesn't give me more than I can handle and there's a lesson in everything. Good luck. I know you'll figure this out.

Oops-We cross posted. Your last post said what my post says.


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## mellowbo

I KNOW you will do what is right for you and in your heart. DO NOT try to second guess your decision, whatever it is it is a good one. It will be great!
Carole


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## Petaluna

Marianne, are you sitting in my head?:


> _I tend to over think things and I don't know that I'd feel 100% about anything. I always tend to look at the worst case scenario and freak myself out. I think, in some way, I think if I worry enough I'll be prepared for the unexpected. I have to work at turning things over and remembering everything happens for a reason._


 I do the exact same thing, I thought for a second I was reading my own post - lol!

Carole, what, who me - second guess myself ? :blah:ound:


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## Lina

Julia, I can definitely understand that. That's why they're preferences... Everyone has their own.  I do have to say, though, that I've had no problems bonding with my dogs because of dark faces. I think that has more to do with seeing their eyes and with Havs at least their eyes can be hidden with either a dark face or a light one. 

Diane, honestly if it was something that would really bother me right off the bat, I would pass up on the puppy. I'm not saying it should be easy to do or that you should do this at all, I'm just giving you my opinion on the matter. If you feel like you can't back out now, thenthats for sure your decision and I for one would support that 100%. No matter what you'll end up with a wonderful, cute puppy from a great and supportive breeder.


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## LuvCicero

Diane, I want to tell you that my DH ~ who was never a dog person ~ picked out Cicero. It's the first time he has know the love of a 'best fur friend' and I have heard him say many times...."I knew the minute I saw his picture that he was meant to be mine." My entire family is still in shock that he loves Cicero so much.

My mother always told me ~ "Your head can lie to you, but your heart never will." If...like DH...you have fell in love .. then you will be thrilled with your new baby just like she is. Just listen to your heart...if you don't feel any doubts then you will know she was meant for you....just like Cicero with his pretty lazy tail.


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## Carefulove

Diane,

I think you should pick up your puppy on Sunday and just drop her off at my house. lane:


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## Petaluna

ok, well all I can do now is wait - to hear about the vet visit, and then see her on Sunday to hopefully bring her home. I am praying for good news and that this will improve, or at least not get worse. I think we may be able to work with good nutrition and tug type games, mouth work in a sense, to keep those jaws open and working, hoping to help the upper palette lengthen. My husband does cranial work (on people, it's very subtle and gentle), and I imagine dogs also have some motion in their cranial and facial bones. It doesn't necessarily facilitate bone growth, but it can definitely free up those tiny joints and sutures, and it sounds like the play techniques with rubber balls and tug toys are essentially working on those principals. He does in-mouth cranial work on me because I tend to get maxillary compression, probably from my previous orthodontia, so he understands "mouth work" and we probably could work with her in a more active, focused way if that's a viable option to facilitate growth.

I have barely gotten any work done the past 2 days, and I've really backed myself into a corner to be ready to leave on Friday morning. I think I need to stop obsessing on this for awhile, quit googling, and quit checking the forum every half hour! Otherwise, Sunday can't get here fast enough. I need to see her again in person to know for sure I'm up for taking a gamble she won't have a more severe problem down the line. And that I'll love her just as much even if she does.


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## Havtahava

Petaluna said:


> Thanks Kimberly, we haven't discussed the issue of future support and involvement if the bite goes in a really problematic direction, but I think it would be based on how severe the problem was, and she doesn't think it's going to be bad. She says the few times she has seen puppies with severely bad bites, she's noticed it much earlier in the game.


Diane, please forgive me if this comes across as too pushy. I promise I'll leave this subject alone after this post, but I just want to encourage you in this regard. Please make sure you talk about how much support you will get from your breeder in the future and get it in writing. The bite may never get worse (heck, it may improve), but your postings make me think that if something healthwise develops down the road, you really don't know how much support (emotionally or financially) you'd really get. That's the part that concerns me. If you don't have it documented now, it is highly likely it will not exist.

By the way, I post this purposely not knowing who your breeder is. It doesn't matter to me. You and your puppy do.


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## luv3havs

Diane,
You've received lots of good advice.

I think your decision will be made very easily after you see the puppy again on Sunday. Try to put this aside and get ready for your trip.


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## RikiDaisyDixie

*a little inward journey*

Close your eyes. Take a deep breath. Take a few more. Go deep into that trusted place inside...know that you, only you know what is best for you and your family. Know that you deserve to have the perfect puppy for YOU, no matter which puppy that is.

Deep inside you know what you truly want and desire, what is best for you at this moment. Everything works out for everything...one way or another.

Deep inside you know what you truly want and need. Breathe.

No judgments, only support, only acceptance.

Trust your inner-knowing, it comes from a connected place between your head and your heart. Your intuition is your guide.


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## RikiDaisyDixie

*My story...*

When we went to get our second havanese puppy, my breeder had several choices for us. We brought Riki with us, because I wanted him to choose too.

Riki was a good big puppy, he was ten months old and pretty close to full grown. He was adorable with the puppies. Of the five puppies, most of them played with him...and he was very happy.

My daughter wanted a girl...I really wanted a puppy I could show. There was a little black with some white that I knew was show quality and he loved Riki, and he loved us, and he wasn't too zesty or too shy. I already had a super zesty one, Riki.

There was a too zesty boy, the perfect black with white boy, and a perfect black and white parti boy...but again, Alana wanted a girl.

There was an all black girl that was too shy, she didn't even play with Riki...and I told Alana that this girl was not a good choice for us.

The little black and white parti girl was the smallest and perhaps a bit shy. Her ears were a bit large and I knew that she would be a perfect pet, not a show dog. I even discussed her with our breeder who told me normally she wouldn't give this smaller puppy to a family with a child (Alana was 7 1/2) but because we had experience with Riki, she felt Riki could give her confidence. My concern was that she was tiny and not that outgoing...she could be fear aggressive with kids (which she has not been).

I really wanted a show dog. My daughter had her heart set on Daisy. So we brought Daisy home (with me almost taking two dogs). Well, the dog I wanted went home the next week to another family. Daisy fell in love with Riki and loves all people but isn't crazy about any other dogs including other havanese. She is smart and petite, different than Riki but completely enamored by him. He adores her but still plays with other havanese. She is a one dog dog, and a lover of children and people. A perfect lap dog.

She isn't the dog I "wanted", she wasn't my first pick...and yes I love her dearly. I didn't get the show quality dog I "wanted", so I decided that it was for the best. My dogs can do agility, and they are trained in tricks...and someday we will do therapy as they already passed canine good citizen.

Bottom line, I got the dog my daughter wanted and I had promised her she could pick...so there are always choices to be made. Funny thing is havanese puppies go fast, there are always people in line for them.

Why am I telling you this story, well, I guess so you see that there are always choices to be made even in the best of circumstances.

Both of my dogs are close to "perfect" but we have had ear infections, some itchy skin, and an anal gland infection. Riki has a perfect bite, but his dentist says he might lose a tooth early due to some gum infection (and he has had his teeth cleaned regularly). So you never know.

Lucky for me we have straight legs and pretty good health. Daisy will be five in June, Riki six in November. It has been a wonderful journey...a lifestyle.

Best wishes on whatever decision you make.


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## Petaluna

Thanks for sharing your story, Linda. It sounds like you are happy with your choice. I see what you mean. 2 choices, either one could work out great. Once I see her again in person and get to love her up, it'll be more clear to me, I'm sure.

The more I sit with it, the more I'm thinking she's supposed to be with us, and I don't know if I can walk away because of something that is likely just a cosmetic issue which may or may not be real noticeable, depending on how she grows. Maybe I just needed a few days to get my head around the new development. I'm such a ridiculous control freak, I have this idea that things should be a certain way, I research like crazy and pursue what I want, and then when things don't go exactly as planned, I get my knickers in a knot and can't go with the flow. Lately I'm re-thinking how that approach to life is working for me (it's not - lol!), and this is starting to feel like one of those life lessons, as Jill pointed out to me, where I have to realize I can let myself be happy even when I don't get exactly what I want, or what I _think_ I want.

Last night I checked my spam folder and found an e-mail from her breeder with more pics that ended up there. There is one of her running toward the camera with her tongue up over her nose, and it was so cute. I'm ready for my dog now, I don't know if I can start this all over, knowing there could be surprises with any other choice I'd make. I really like my breeder, she's all about the dogs, always there for questions and help, and she has no other puppies right now I'd be interested in. I've been waiting for this little girl, and yeah, the bite problem is a bummer, I'm still disappointed that issue popped up, but what if she'd be the perfect companion and I passed her up because her face might look a little funny? I'm not sure I want to take that chance, and I still feel committed even though it's not technically a done deal yet. Taking it seriously, I guess. It's not like bra shopping... (which is a funny analogy because I _never_ find the perfect fit - something is always a little off - lol!)


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## Posh's Mom

Hi Diane,
I have been reading this thread with lots of interest. I too was pretty set on getting a dog with interesting markings, and a dark face because I did not like the look of a stained muzzle or tear stains. Consequently, when I saw Posh as an eighteen week old puppy at my breeder's I fell in love with her looks and personality. She had from the outset EXACTLY the look and personality I was looking for. She was the breeder's show prospect, so I kind of tried to dismiss my attraction to her...but maybe down deep I was hoping she wouldn't "turn out" and she would be available to me.

Fast forward three months and I get an email from the breeder that she would like to know if I would be interested in a co-ownership with her show prospect puppy, Posh. I almost did a backflip, but of course I can't because I'm terrible at gymnastics , because she was offering me THE DOG that called to me from the first time I saw her. However, I really did not think that honestly an intact show dog would be a good fit for my young family. My breeder had pups at the time, so my family and I went to see the young pups she had available, and also to see Posh again. Well, we all fell in love with Posh, and so I started praying something would go wrong so she couldn't be a show dog-her bite would go off, she'd break a tooth, her tail would be off set. I know this was horrible for me to wish something like that...but I wanted her to be imperfectly perfect in our home as a pet!  It turned out she stayed a wee little lass, and my breeder decided it could be possibly dangerous for her to have a litter, so she was placed with us-obviously...

Now, her face was dark, but with Havanese come color surprises. Her face has lightened a lot and the staining near her eyes is totally a drag. However, I've decided to let go of my disdain for the staining. She is a beautiful dog, inside and out, and I wouldn't trade her, as many here have said.

I do think, that our dogs find us to teach us something. I observe my mom's mutant sheltie in agility class every week and I think, "man, that dog is so good for my mom. the dog needs to focus, my mom needs to focus, and to see them work as a team both working on something that comes difficulty for them is awesome." My dane was good for me, he taught me about responsibility in a HUGE way. Posh is good for me, because she asks me questions-are you sure I should go over this weird looking jump mom? She makes me pause and problem solve, something that is difficult for me, as I like to jump head first emotionally in many times. She also gives me so many laughs, and so many smiles. I can be too serious, and she is helping me find my funny side.

All this being said, I had absolutely no doubts that Posh was my dog, I think even from the first time I saw her...and, although you have your heart and mind set on getting a dog this weekend you could still change your mind if that is what you feel would be best. It's such a personal decision. But, I do think Violet might have a lesson for you, and you most likely already know what I am hinting at...


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## TnTWalter

I'm the overbite gal....

:fear: I absolutely flipped out when the vet basically told me this was the worst case she'd seen, etc. It was scary and I was upset. I knew that Winston had an overbite going in though. When I met him, he had it. I was just assured by the breeder and another breeder that it was fine. So i freaked when my vet reacted so negatively....

long story long....took him to a specialist who charged me $100 to say he recommended surgery that he may or may not need but should get for $2k and it still might not fix and would need another surgery.....

Thank God for the board and my breeder. I decided to stick it out because by then he was living with us and we were in LOVE. :kiss: Winston's 2 and perfectly fine thank you very much!

And we never went through the puppy chewing stage! Bonus!!


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## Petaluna

Thanks for relating your story, Amy. I hear ya, and I hope to have a similar happy story about this dog. 

Trish, thanks so much for that. Was he not chewing because his bite was so off? I'm assuming he eats OK and everything. I would like her to be able to chew things to help keep her teeth clean. I am realizing a less than proper bite might be quite common. 

I have occlusion problems myself, and I have tooth pain and problems as a result, even though it looks minor and doesn't stop me from eating. I went through a second set of orthodontics a few years ago to make my head happier, but couldn't tolerate the retainers, on top of which the movement they caused from taking them in and out all the time created deep grooves at the gumline on most all of my teeth, so I spent a bundle getting them all filled. Stopped wearing the retainers, teeth went where they wanted, and now the bite is off again. Point being - my misalignments aren't particularly severe, and yet can cause quite a lot of pain, I've been putting off going back to the dentist to see what can be done, and basically eating a lot of soup. 

I don't know if I should relate that to a dog's underbite, but I'm just wondering if what look like minor misalignments to us actually cause them pain that we don't realize because dogs are so stoic unless they are feeling really bad. 

It's good to know Winston didn't need any major procedures, my breeder and I both would be inclined to take a very conservative approach, particularly if the problem is likely to be just cosmetic. I may take her to a local vet who specializes in dentistry, it's where I took my yorkie for cleanings and extractions, where they also extracted thousands from my wallet.... but I would not be surprised if he recommends expensive surgery.


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## hedygs

Diane I know you will know when you see her. Whatever it is, take her or leave her, you will know. Breathe and let it happen. There is no pressure really. Only the pressure you put on yourself so just let it be.


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## gabdyl

Diane, 
My Peanut has an underbite. It doesn't affect him negatively at all and the vet didn't make it seem like it was anything to be worried about. It is so cute and every time he gives me his mommy look and I see those little teeth I just want to pick him up and kiss him, is that crazy? lol.

I didn't know about it beforehand and I am not sure when it developed. I am glad in some ways that I didn't know as I probably would have worried about it the way that you are now, but as it turns out I just think it is the cutest thing. Peanut's underbite looks like cutie pie Shelby's btw.


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## Amy R.

wow, is Peanut ever cute!

good luck, Diane. trust your gut, when you see her you will know. if you have doubts when you see her, then you should pass.


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## MerryMaeFlower

eurobichons said:


> We have treated several havanese with underbite from a variety of Breeders, most have resolved with an increasing amount of protein in the diet, so less carb based dried foods and use more fresh meaty bones, this works well and the dogs jaw benefit from it also.


Blue Buffalo has a brand called "wilderness" that is supposedly more like what wolves/wild dogs eat. Would this be a food I should use to increase protein intake? I also have a "minimal ingredient" cat food left over from when our cat recently passed away. I know cats have higher protein needs than dogs. Would adding a little bit of cat food to his regular food be a bad idea?


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## krandall

MerryMaeFlower said:


> Blue Buffalo has a brand called "wilderness" that is supposedly more like what wolves/wild dogs eat. Would this be a food I should use to increase protein intake? I also have a "minimal ingredient" cat food left over from when our cat recently passed away. I know cats have higher protein needs than dogs. Would adding a little bit of cat food to his regular food be a bad idea?


I would not feed a dog cat food. I also would like to point out that dogs have evolved a LONG way from their wolf ancestors. Wolves are carnivores, dogs, even "wild" (i.e. "feral") ones are scavangers that eat a wide variety of foods INCLUDING meat.

I have talked to several people extremely knowledgeable about dog nutrition and they have told me that if you want to improve the protein content of whatever dog food you feed, the best way to do it is through "real" lean meat... The same that you serve your family. They have also told me that supplementing eggs and raw or cooked fruits and vegetables is another way of improving a commercial diet. So, although Kodi's staple diet is kibble (I happen to prefer Natural Balance Organic, because I want an organic base food) I supplement regulalry with fresh fruits and vegetables and whatever meat or fish we happen to be eating. The only exception is that I don't feed him beef, since he has shown an intolerance to that protein source. He also gets some of our eggs whenever we cook them, which is typically 2-3 days per week.

I adjust his kibble down slightly when he gets these "extras", so that his caloric intake remains about the same. He doesn't have a weight problem and gets plenty of exercize, so I don't have to watch calories too closely.


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## MerryMaeFlower

krandall said:


> I would not feed a dog cat food. I also would like to point out that dogs have eveloved a LONG way from their wolf ancestors. Wolves are carnivores, dogs, even "wild" (i.e. "feral") ones are scavangers that eat a wide variety of foods INCLUDING meat.
> 
> I have talked to several peopel extremely knowledgeable about dog nutrition and they have told me that if you want to improve the protein content of whatever dog food you feed, the best way to do it is through "real" lean meat... The same that you serve your family. They have also told me that supplementing eggs and raw or cooked fruits and vegetables is another way of improving a commercial diet. So, although Kodi's staple diet is kibble (I happen to prefer Natural Balance Organic, because I want an organic base food) I supplement regulalry with fresh fruits and vegetables and whatever meat or fish we happen to be eating. The only exception is that I don't feed him beef, since he has shown an intolerance to that protein source. He also gets some of our eggs whenever we cook them, which is typically 2-3 days per week.
> 
> I adjust his kibble down slightly when he gets these "extras", so that his caloric intake remains about the same. He doesn't have a weight problem and gets plenty of exercize, so I don't have to watch calories too closely.


Ah, thank you very much! I do give Gilbert some veggies most days (he LOVES peas) and he loves his ham treats (salty though so not much) but I will start giving him some of my morning eggs. I hadn't thought of that.  I appreciate the suggestions.


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## narci

origen is a dog food that is very high in protein. the ingredients are fresh, free range and all sourced from canada. i use to feed oreo this but he farted alot on it.


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