# Conditioner Mix



## brugmansia (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi everyone. I've been doing very well brushing Luna twice a day and keeping her mats at bay. Alas, when I picked her up from doggie daycare yesterday (we thought she would get detention from all the running, jumping, playing, etc. with the dachshund and poodle) she came home with mats here, there and everywhere. It was a first from picking her up at daycare.

We are using Pantene conditioner to work out the mats, but I wanted to know if anyone knew of how much water to conditioner should be mixed for the right consistency so I can mist her with it as I brush her. This would be a great help.

Thanks,

Sylvia


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Some products will actually help create the mats if you leave them on the coat because they act as a magnet for dirt or other hairs to stick to each other. Does your particular Pantene conditioner say it can be used as a leave-in product? If not, I wouldn't use it for a misting/grooming conditioner. 

There are several products on the market (human and dog) that can be left in the hair and you may want to consider changing to one of them. I've been using the Coat Handler conditioner for several years now consistently. I have used several leave-in products, but this one is my favorite by far.

How old is Luna? If she is blowing coat (anywhere from 9-14 months of age), you may just be in for a difficult ride for a couple of months no matter which products you use. Unfortunately, the matting just comes with the territory.


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I agree with Kimberly, I'd use a specific leave-in conditioner. VO-5 makes a good one. If you leave the Pantene in, the hair can get too heavy/waxy and that may perpetuate the mats. I LOVE the Pantene blonde expressions on Gucci, it leaves her coat like silk, but not as a leave in. I prefer the Eqyss or VO5 products.

You could also do a mid week conditioning or deep conditioning to help with the blowing coat mats. If Gucci is matting more than usual, I'll just plop her in the sink for a conditioning treatment and that usually buys me 3-4 days of mat free brushing

Kara


----------



## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

just wanted to chime in and say you were all totally right about the Chris Christensen Ice on Ice. I diluted it (even thought it said not to) about 10 to 1, water to ice on ice, and it totally sucked all the moisture out of posh's coat.

I threw it out. 

Luckily, it was the "trial size"...I do like the gold on gold, but I will use it once every 3 months. 

What is working awesome for her coat is a leave in conditioner from California Baby that I bought at my local food co-op last week. It isn't making her coat "gummy" and attracting dirt, it feels soft and silky and it's so dry here now, it actually feels like it's helping with the elasticity of her coat, no more brittle break off's. There is a lot of water in this product, it's one of the first ingredients, so I'm not diluting it.

The main thing is I feel totally safe using this product on Posh, myself, and my little kids because it is free of harsh chemicals. Also, this company does no animal testing. I've noticed it doesn't state that on a lot of the "dog shampoos," which is interesting...


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh good - I'm glad you found a product that is working for you, Amy. 
How old is Posh now?


----------



## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

I agree re: Coat Handler products. :whoo:

Makes de-matting ALMOST bearable (though poor Molly HATES to be combed because her coat is very thick and wavy).


----------



## EstrellaVila (Nov 30, 2007)

I really like coat handler as well, that stuff is great. I let is sit on them when they are in the tub for a few minutes and when I dry them their hair is soft and the tangles slide right out. 

I just got the eqyss survivor detangler and I like that as well, it is kind of like the CHI hair serum I use on me.


----------



## brugmansia (Dec 6, 2007)

Thank you for all your wonderful suggestions. Luna just turned one year old on Feb. 20th. She's been doing great for the past 5 weeks until yesterday evening when I picked her up. I guess we have a couple of more months to go with her blowing her coat, although I know there is more to come at 18 months or so. 

I definitely like the mid-week conditioning treatment idea and will have to try that, although I'm sure Luna would not enjoy it. I'm trying to get her use to being combed twice a day. She just loves to try and bite the comb or she'll put her front paws on my shoulder, anything to try to stop me from getting to certain spots. We're working on getting a grooming table to make things easier. DH is doing the research on that.

Thanks again for your help.


----------



## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

California Baby products are great.


----------



## HayCarambaMama (Dec 8, 2007)

I love her name!! Good luck!


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

brugmansia said:


> She's been doing great for the past 5 weeks until yesterday evening when I picked her up. I guess we have a couple of more months to go with her blowing her coat, although I know there is more to come at 18 months or so.


When I listed that age range for blowing coat, I just meant that is a general time when they do blow their coat and it usually lasts a month or two. I didn't mean to imply that she would be blowing coat for that whole range of time. (I think I posted a five-six month range or so, which would be a huge nightmare!)

Assuming you aren't showing her, you can always shave the armpit areas where matting is so easy to happen, but so tender to undo. It might save the sanity of both of you. Unfortunately, if she is playing with other dogs during this time, you probably won't be able to do anything about the shoulders, hips and other areas that tend to mat up more when the dogs are mouthing each other.

One thing that has really helped me with my dogs when they are blowing coat is to always make sure you completely blow dry the back of the ears and comb it out as it is drying. The loose hairs there mat up so quickly, and it is so tender that it can be a horrible grooming place. In addition, the more the hair mats there, the more you lose when you are detangling it.


----------



## elregalohavanese (Jun 20, 2007)

*conditioner*

OK, I know this is going to sound crazy because it was against everything I have ever heard but....we just attended a grooming seminar by a very well known person in the havanese world. They do not use conditioner at all because it attracts dirt and causes hair to clump together. Supposedly, the havanese hair does not really absorb the conditioner but the conditioner remains on the outside of the hair , attracts dirt and causes more mats, We have washed without conditioner and honestly are getting better results and less mats???? Go figure..


----------



## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> Oh good - I'm glad you found a product that is working for you, Amy.
> How old is Posh now?


Kimberly, she is ten months old now! Wow! Time is flying by....


----------



## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I used a grooming spray on Kodi a few days ago. I got it at a dog show and it is OMG by Plush Puppy. I like the Plush Puppy shampoo and cond, but I will never use the grooming spray again. He has been scratching, which he rarely does. Also, it really dried out his hair and he looks dirtier.


----------



## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

I tried the OMG by Plush Puppy too and wasn't impressed for the price. I didn't notice the dry hair or scratching however but I only used under the arms for a small mat.


----------



## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I use a product named Unicure and it it wonderful for people and pets. I use full strength at bath time for pets and put it in a spray bottle with half water for misting during daily brushing. Mats and loose hair will blow out during blow drying. Leaves hair so soft and silky...and easy to brush and keeps pets from itching. Great to clean head and face...no tears.

I use it as a condition on colored hair, to shave my legs, and as a makeup remover. It's a great product that I can't be without. A gallon cost around $30.00 and last forever. You may be able to find it in a beauty supply store in your area -- or you can order online at.... http://unicure.com/unicure2/pets.htm

I highly recommend Unicure -- for everyone! No dyes or perfume, and not tested on animals.

Also, try to never "cut" a mat with scissors. Instead, keep the scissors in a open positon and insert one blade in mat and pull through to loosen -- may have to do a couple of times -- then brush out. This way you don't see any 'cut' places.
"Good luck, all"


----------



## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I try separating the mats with my fingers, just by gently pulling. Once they are separated enough, I work it out with the rotating comb. Takes a little longer, but at least you don't pull the hair out, which could cause breakage.


----------



## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

elregalohavanese said:


> OK, I know this is going to sound crazy because it was against everything I have ever heard but....we just attended a grooming seminar by a very well known person in the havanese world. They do not use conditioner at all because it attracts dirt and causes hair to clump together. Supposedly, the havanese hair does not really absorb the conditioner but the conditioner remains on the outside of the hair , attracts dirt and causes more mats, We have washed without conditioner and honestly are getting better results and less mats???? Go figure..


I just talked to our breeder the other day and she suggested this too! She also mentioned a final rinse with a little bit of vinegar in the water. I haven't tried it yet, but maybe I will.


----------



## havaTaffy (Dec 13, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> I agree with Kimberly, I'd use a specific leave-in conditioner. VO-5 makes a good one. If you leave the Pantene in, the hair can get too heavy/waxy and that may perpetuate the mats. I LOVE the Pantene blonde expressions on Gucci, it leaves her coat like silk, but not as a leave in. I prefer the Eqyss or VO5 products.
> 
> Kara


The MATS have landed and are invading Taffy's fur! Everyday I would deal with a couple of them, then I discover even more mats! :frusty:
Everyone has been raving about Coat Handler. Unfortunately, I can't find them anywhere around here, but they sell Bark 2 Basics (by same company). Has anyone had any experience with them? I can also find the Eqyss Premier products here. Kara, what's the water-conditioner ratio you use for the Eqyss? Thanks for your help!

BTW Kara, I LOVE your kitchen tile! :wink: :biggrin1:


----------



## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I will try to leave off the conditioner as suggested to see how Cicero looks....but I will have the bottle of Unicure close by. I am thankful that he "loves" his nightly brushing and will let me turn him like a rag doll to brush every area.


----------



## brugmansia (Dec 6, 2007)

We finally bought the Coat Handler and it's working great so far. We bought the Coat Handler at Groomer's Choice (http://groomerschoice.com/shampoo_coat-handler.html). We bought the shampoo, leave-in conditioner. and the detangler. I mostly use the leave-in conditioner when I comb her, instead of the detangler, but everything works well. Her belly was so full of mats a few weeks ago, and I managed to get all the mats out in 2 days before taking her to the groomer, so I save her from being shaved.


----------



## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

Coat Handler did the same for Molly...we use the same products as you, and it's worth EVERY penny...dollar...ound:ound:


----------



## Jan D (Mar 13, 2007)

I like the Coat Handler too. Although recently I purchased the Eqyss products and I like them alot. And the conditioner can be applied right over the shampoo without washing the shampoo off, then rinsed off all together. One step less! At first I thought... what??????...I never heard of that. But it works fine and he's so soft and fluffy afterward.

Ami,

I use the Eqyss avocado mist when I brush Havee and it works great and smells even better!


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Ami, which EQyss product are you asking about diluting? All of the EQyss products I've purchased are full strength vs. concentrated.


----------



## Moko (Dec 11, 2007)

Jan D said:


> I use the Eqyss avocado mist when I brush Havee and it works great and smells even better!


Jan--

Where do you get the Eqyss? Is it in stores around here, or do you order on-line?


----------



## mom23girls (Nov 26, 2007)

I love the pantene shampoo & I use Mane & Tail conditioner. I'm not sure why, but since I had Amy's coat clipped to about 2" in length, she suddenly gets mats. Never had them before & I'm not doing anything differently. The groomer did reccomend the VO5 detangling spray, I haven't bought it yet though.


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Maureen, most equine supply stores will sell EQyss (it was originally formulated for horses), but some regular pet stores are now selling it too, because many of the formulas are made for canines now too.


----------



## havaTaffy (Dec 13, 2007)

Havtahava said:


> Ami, which EQyss product are you asking about diluting? All of the EQyss products I've purchased are full strength vs. concentrated.


Hi Kimberly, thanks for the heads up... After reading through all those threads about mats and conditioners and sprays, I guess my brain got all mixed up. I got confused and thought I can dilute the Premier conditioner and use it to detangle mats. The only EQyss products that I've seen around here are the Premier shampoo and Premier conditioner. I do use the EQyss Premier conditioner when I bathe Taffy, but she's still covered with mats. I'm gonna try to go hunting for an EQyss avocado mist. Hopefully, I'll be lucky and find a bottle. My last resort would be to order Coat Handler conditioner or the EQyss avocado mist online, but shipping sometimes cost more than the product itself. 

Any suggestions are fully welcomed since I'm at my wit's end!


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

The Eqyss is a good product, as for the "spray" conditioners, you may need to buy a different spray bottle because it sprays ALOT (as in drenching the dog with a few squirts!) LOL

Gableshav, I believe..told me to try the different bottle and it works MUCH better. 

As far as the conditioner w/ baths, yes..its good, but there are others just as good that are much less expensive. I did like the rebuilder, that seemed to work well.

Kara


----------



## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

havaTaffy said:


> The MATS have landed and are invading Taffy's fur! Everyday I would deal with a couple of them, then I discover even more mats! :frusty:
> Everyone has been raving about Coat Handler. Unfortunately, I can't find them anywhere around here, but they sell Bark 2 Basics (by same company). Has anyone had any experience with them? I can also find the Eqyss Premier products here. Kara, what's the water-conditioner ratio you use for the Eqyss? Thanks for your help!
> 
> BTW Kara, I LOVE your kitchen tile! :wink: :biggrin1:


LOL! Thankyouverymuch! Love your tile too 

I bought the Eqyss that was 'ready to use', so I didn't deal with any dilution. You can probably find the ratio on their website. I know alot of people rave on the coat handler, but it doesn't have the 'lasting' effect as the Pantene and Eqyss for Gucci. Where, typically....we can go anywhere from 2-4 days with NO matting after a bath (her hair stays soft and moist longer)

What you could consider if you are having frequent matting is to do a weekly conditioning, even if you bath every 2 or so weeks, just to condition the coat in between. In theory, a coat that is moist isn't going to tangle, mat and break like dry fur is.

I would think Hong Kong would be shopping heaven!  Not sure about where to find stuff there. 

Kara


----------



## havaTaffy (Dec 13, 2007)

Well, if you're looking for designer clothing, designer watches, designer purses and electronics then Hong Kong is THE place to shop. But for quality stuff for pets, then I would say US is the shopping mecca for our fur babies! eace: Too bad I'm more into shopping for Taffy than myself...:biggrin1:


----------



## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Ami, I know there are some people that have had luck with removing mats with products & bathing, but that just hasn't worked for me. I find it much easier to make sure the dog is mat-free before the bath. Bathing and blow-drying just goes easier that way for me.


----------

