# What to do with Oliver's mop head?



## Johanna (11 mo ago)

I'm trying to figure out what to do with Ollie's mop top. Nothing urgert but I'm sitting on my hands trying not to tame it while thinking about if I'll ever see his eyes. His head is on the curly side but his body is getting more wavy. He's just 5 months old so I know this is still puppy coat and things can change when his adult coat comes in. Tonight was bath night and I tried for the first time to use a conditioning spray (CC Precious Drop) and gently blow dry with slicker comb to try to tame his head. That didn't tame a thing. In fact he just poofed more! Part of me wants to give his face a trim and part of me wants to let it grow to see if anything on his face/head will eventually lay down. His hair is so much different than Naomi's. I keep her in a puppy cut but only trim her bangs and in between her eyes a little on her head. She's wavy, he's poofy!!! I've never had a Havanese puppy before so I don't know if he's going to grow out of this or if he's going to stay on the curly side and need a different grooming routine. I'm attaching pics of his before bath picture (he's a mess), just after the bath and just after the blow-dry. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Johanna said:


> I'm trying to figure out what to do with Ollie's mop top. Nothing urgert but I'm sitting on my hands trying not to tame it while thinking about if I'll ever see his eyes. His head is on the curly side but his body is getting more wavy. He's just 5 months old so I know this is still puppy coat and things can change when his adult coat comes in. Tonight was bath night and I tried for the first time to use a conditioning spray (CC Precious Drop) and gently blow dry with slicker comb to try to tame his head. That didn't tame a thing. In fact he just poofed more! Part of me wants to give his face a trim and part of me wants to let it grow to see if anything on his face/head will eventually lay down. His hair is so much different than Naomi's. I keep her in a puppy cut but only trim her bangs and in between her eyes a little on her head. She's wavy, he's poofy!!! I've never had a Havanese puppy before so I don't know if he's going to grow out of this or if he's going to stay on the curly side and need a different grooming routine. I'm attaching pics of his before bath picture (he's a mess), just after the bath and just after the blow-dry. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


Is it long enough to catch in a pony yet?


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I’m not experienced enough to tell from pictures. But sundance has always had a lot of hair towards the front of his head and as a puppy. It grew in very silky as an adult. Something I notice is that regardless of the length the hair tips over his eyes. I think it’s a combination of the shape of his forehead and the density of the hair across his brow. Trimming doesn’t really solve it for us, even short hair tips into his eyes, it has to be a topknot. Also if the hair is cut in sort of the more rounded bichon/Maltese way, where the hair on the top of the head tapers in where it meets the ears, it really contributes to a pouf. When that hair is a little longer it has more weight and lays down. Otherwise short hair pushes long, so it forces the longer hair in the middle up and forward. I think if I understand the look you want you might prefer a little more length across the top of his head. It’s also easier to tie back in a more natural topknot when it’s a little longer. 

I like previous drops but find it to be a little heavy for the top of Sundances head on its own. The good news about that is I think it’s one of the heaviest grooming sprays I’ve tried and if it’s not making Ollie’s head greasy I don’t think anything else will, so you have lots of options! Maybe something a little less silky will work for you there. I make my own littles mixes of grooming sprays and I mix a bit of precious drops into ice on ice when Sundance’s coat seems dry, along with a drop or two of conditioner, and use it in certain spots like his feet in the winter. However it seems more cosmetic to me. Maybe a deeper conditioner in just that spot would help. For me it’s a trade off with the heavier conditioners and sprays - they may help detangle and control excess volume but they also make Sundance’s coat seem dirty faster so he needs baths more often.


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## Johanna (11 mo ago)

I don't think I can get a top knot in it yet but I might try when he's tired tonight. I got the Precious Drop because I knew it was heavier and might weigh it down a little. I also have Ice on Ice. My daughter who is in cosmetology school politely explained to me today that this is why people with curly hair only use a blow dryer with a diffuser... if they don't, their hair will basically explode like Ollie's did last night 🤣. Thank goodness, his head was back to normal this morning. I think I'll just skip the dryer on his head until I see what happens as his coat grows out and the adult coat comes in. Am I right in thinking that the puppy to adult coat change happens at around a year old or is it longer?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Johanna said:


> I don't think I can get a top knot in it yet but I might try when he's tired tonight. I got the Precious Drop because I knew it was heavier and might weigh it down a little. I also have Ice on Ice.


For "first pony's" you need to move it further forward than you might want... so that it looks almost like a "unicorn horn". It's likely to be a fight for the first few days... You put it in... he takes it out. Don't worry about it, just be persistent and just put it back in for a few minutes every day, and eventually he'll get used to it! Here is Ducky with his first ridiculous pony... Just BARELY enough hair to catch! DON'T use Ice on Ice on the hair you want to put in a pony, though, our you'll never be able to hold onto it!!!











Johanna said:


> My daughter who is in cosmetology school politely explained to me today that this is why people with curly hair only use a blow dryer with a diffuser... if they don't, their hair will basically explode like Ollie's did last night 🤣. Thank goodness, his head was back to normal this morning. I think I'll just skip the dryer on his head until I see what happens as his coat grows out and the adult coat comes in. Am I right in thinking that the puppy to adult coat change happens at around a year old or is it longer?


The change from puppy coat to adult coat usually starts between 8-10 months, and continues until about 18-20 months, give or take. Some are shorter, some are longer. Kodi was still getting mats until he was close to 2 years old, though not all the time... they got better and worse in waves. Pixel was SO bad at about a year that I cut her down... and she was so CUTE short that we kept her that way! Both Panda and Ducky have had such easy coats that it has been really no problem staying ahead of "mats" I can hardly even call them mats. He gets a tiny "knot" here and there, especially behind his ears, or near his private parts. I can easily work out the ones by his ears, and honestly, I NEVER try to comb out knots on private parts... I always cut them. No one can see them anyway! (even on a show dog!)


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I can’t tell from pictures, but I think Sundance’s eyes are a little lower set than Ducky, or maybe his forehead is a little taller or differently shaped. There’s a ridge where I can’t place the topknot because it will fall in Sundance’s face, it has to be higher or lower than that spot. Where it seems to be on Ducky is where I think it looks best, but it’s where I have trouble. Ducky’s hair on either side of the topknot is so neat and pretty, but Sundance’s hair flops over from one eyebrow all of the way over to the other, ear to ear really, it’s like it points down! I usually try to place it higher, and I pretty much always do the flip through that Ditto’s mom posted a while back. But sometimes there’s breakage, or when the groomer accidentally trimmed between the eyes and it was growing out, I did two topknots pulled into one. I use a small elastic lower almost between the eyes, then I gather the tail into a larger topknot on the top of his head. Even when Sundance’s hair isn’t short I sometimes have to do this when I’m playing around and want to do something different with his topknot, just to keep the weight in the best place.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I can’t tell from pictures, but I think Sundance’s eyes are a little lower set than Ducky, or maybe his forehead is a little taller or differently shaped. There’s a ridge where I can’t place the topknot because it will fall in Sundance’s face, it has to be higher or lower than that spot. Where it seems to be on Ducky is where I think it looks best, but it’s where I have trouble. Ducky’s hair on either side of the topknot is so neat and pretty, but Sundance’s hair flops over from one eyebrow all of the way over to the other, ear to ear really, it’s like it points down! I usually try to place it higher, and I pretty much always do the flip through that Ditto’s mom posted a while back. But sometimes there’s breakage, or when the groomer accidentally trimmed between the eyes and it was growing out, I did two topknots pulled into one. I use a small elastic lower almost between the eyes, then I gather the tail into a larger topknot on the top of his head. Even when Sundance’s hair isn’t short I sometimes have to do this when I’m playing around and want to do something different with his topknot, just to keep the weight in the best place.


Well, itn that photo, Ducky was very young. That pony was much farther forward than I put them now, because if I didn’t have it that far forward, I couldn’t keep hie hair in it! LOL! Even so, it didn’t last very long.

Now, it’s much further back, and I usually put it to one side, because I’m not keen on the “pineapple top” look. Because he’s showing, I work pretty hard to avoid broken hair, but I’m lucky that his hair doesn’t break easily too. (AND he doesn’t rub his face!)
















Not sure his eyes are higher… I think that may be an optical illusion because his muzzle is white and Sundances is not. But it is absolutely true that head shape makes a difference in how head hair falls. In the ring, I am lucky that Ducky’s hair stays back pretty well out of his face. With Kodi, there was NO WAY. His hair fell STAIGHT over his face if it wasn’t tied back in a gorgeous, luxurious mass that made him look like “Cousin It”. LOL!


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## Johanna (11 mo ago)

Update..and thank you for the advice! I attempted Ollie's first "man bun" tonight and he did quite well. The hardest part was getting the band on quickly once I got the hair in place but it wasn't too bad (I just couldn't pull the hair all the way through and didn't want to make it a bad experience so we made it a man bun). Quick as could be. He didn't mess with it at all after and I immediately went into training and treat mode with him just after and he didn't seem to notice anything different with his hair. He's very food driven which is a huge help. I was thrilled that he didn't seem to notice that anything was different. Excuse his messy coat. It was a wet, rainy day here and I attempted the top knot before I combed him out for the night. Wanted to catch the moment.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

Super cute!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Johanna said:


> Update..and thank you for the advice! I attempted Ollie's first "man bun" tonight and he did quite well. The hardest part was getting the band on quickly once I got the hair in place but it wasn't too bad (I just couldn't pull the hair all the way through and didn't want to make it a bad experience so we made it a man bun). Quick as could be. He didn't mess with it at all after and I immediately went into training and treat mode with him just after and he didn't seem to notice anything different with his hair. He's very food driven which is a huge help. I was thrilled that he didn't seem to notice that anything was different. Excuse his messy coat. It was a wet, rainy day here and I attempted the top knot before I combed him out for the night. Wanted to catch the moment.
> View attachment 177923


Oh my goodness!!! Too cute!!! He has eyeballs under there! And if he's leaving it alone, you are home free!!! It will get easier as time goes on, and he will also start to realize how much better HE feels with the hair out of his eyes. All of mine have EVENTUALLY learned just to put their head down on the table to put their ponies in!


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