# NEW PUPPY PURCHASE



## acdinard1966

Hi,

I am currently living in Virginia Beach, VA and having a very hard time finding a Havanese puppy. I found a few Havana Silk breeders & from what I am learning there is a difference? Are there any Havanese Breeders in Virginia Beach?

Thank you,
Anita


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## krandall

acdinard1966 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am currently living in Virginia Beach, VA and having a very hard time finding a Havanese puppy. I found a few Havana Silk breeders & from what I am learning there is a difference? Are there any Havanese Breeders in Virginia Beach?
> 
> Thank you,
> Anita


As of summer before last, Havana Silks could no longer also be registered as Havanese. There are certainly some lines that are almost exactly the same that have dogs that are "Havanese" and dogs that are "Havana Silk". My Kodi happened to be born during the time that puppies were being registered both ways, so he is double registered as a Havanese with AKC and as a Havana Silk with HSDAA.

Havana Silks are very nice dogs, and my preferred "type". But I would not be willing to pay that much for a dog that I couldn't register with AKC. You need to decide whether that is important to you or not. The GOOD thing is that Havana Silk Dog owners are pretty religious about health testing. (that's why they originally broke off from Havanese) There are *LOTS* of GOOD Havanese breeders (including those that breed for the same "type" as the HSG breeders) who ALSO do all the proper testing, but, unfortunately, you have to be careful, and weed through a bunch of puppy mill sources and back yard breeders to find them.

There are quite a few good Havanese breeders in your area, so if that's what you want, you can certainly find a puppy, though you will find that many of the best breeders have waiting lists. I'm sure other people will chime in with breeders' names. My dog's breeders, Pam and Tom King (Starborn Havanese) are wonderful, but they do not currently have puppies available, and they have a waiting list. You may want to contact Pam anyway, though. She knows most of the breeders in that area, and may be able to give you some leads.


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## Celesthav

*VA Beach breeder*



acdinard1966 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am currently living in Virginia Beach, VA and having a very hard time finding a Havanese puppy. I found a few Havana Silk breeders & from what I am learning there is a difference? Are there any Havanese Breeders in Virginia Beach?
> 
> Thank you,
> Anita


Hi Anita,

I don't know about silks, but "By The Bay Havanese" is in Va Beach. They don't answer emails so you might want to call. Google their website. I think they have one female they breed that's a Starborn Havanese. They might have others. It's been awhile since I've visited their webpage. 
In the meantime, there's a tremendous amount of helpful information about the havanese breed on this forum. I'm spending my spare time reading and doing my homework while waiting on a havanese list.

Good luck!
Jeanne


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## krandall

Quilty204 said:


> Hi Anita,
> 
> I don't know about silks, but "By The Bay Havanese" is in Va Beach. They don't answer emails so you might want to call. Google their website. I think they have one female they breed that's a Starborn Havanese. They might have others. It's been awhile since I've visited their webpage.
> In the meantime, there's a tremendous amount of helpful information about the havanese breed on this forum. I'm spending my spare time reading and doing my homework while waiting on a havanese list.
> 
> Good luck!
> Jeanne


I'm pretty sure they've gone the Havana Silk Dog route. (which is not to say they aren't nice dogs!)


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## Celesthav

Thanks Karen. Good to know.


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## sandypaws

*New puppy purchase*



Quilty204 said:


> Hi Anita,
> 
> I don't know about silks, but "By The Bay Havanese" is in Va Beach. They don't answer emails so you might want to call. Google their website. I think they have one female they breed that's a Starborn Havanese. They might have others. It's been awhile since I've visited their webpage.
> In the meantime, there's a tremendous amount of helpful information about the havanese breed on this forum. I'm spending my spare time reading and doing my homework while waiting on a havanese list.
> 
> Good luck!
> Jeanne


The breeder you mentioned, Ann Carille, is now known as "Havana Silk Dogs By The Bay". I believe she is an officer or on the board of the Havana Silk Dog organization.


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## HannahBearsMom

krandall said:


> As of summer before last, Havana Silks could no longer also be registered as Havanese. There are certainly some lines that are almost exactly the same that have dogs that are "Havanese" and dogs that are "Havana Silk". My Kodi happened to be born during the time that puppies were being registered both ways, so he is double registered as a Havanese with AKC and as a Havana Silk with HSDAA.
> 
> Havana Silks are very nice dogs, and my preferred "type". But I would not be willing to pay that much for a dog that I couldn't register with AKC. You need to decide whether that is important to you or not. The GOOD thing is that Havana Silk Dog owners are pretty religious about health testing. (that's why they originally broke off from Havanese) There are *LOTS* of GOOD Havanese breeders (including those that breed for the same "type" as the HSG breeders) who ALSO do all the proper testing, but, unfortunately, you have to be careful, and weed through a bunch of puppy mill sources and back yard breeders to find them.
> 
> There are quite a few good Havanese breeders in your area, so if that's what you want, you can certainly find a puppy, though you will find that many of the best breeders have waiting lists. I'm sure other people will chime in with breeders' names. My dog's breeders, Pam and Tom King (Starborn Havanese) are wonderful, but they do not currently have puppies available, and they have a waiting list. You may want to contact Pam anyway, though. She knows most of the breeders in that area, and may be able to give you some leads.


I scond the recommendation to contact Pam King of Starboarn Havanese. My Maccabee is one of their pups.


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## Suzi

acdinard1966 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am currently living in Virginia Beach, VA and having a very hard time finding a Havanese puppy. I found a few Havana Silk breeders & from what I am learning there is a difference? Are there any Havanese Breeders in Virginia Beach?
> 
> Thank you,
> Anita


 They are the same only breed to have more of what the club thinks is better. I think they kicked themselves by separating IMA. Its a more controlled group as far as having certain criteria. So really you know you are getting a very nice well bread dog. But you can find the same dog wit h breeders who really care about embittering the breed.


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## HannahBearsMom

My Maccabee is genetically a Havana Silk Dog, but his breeder chose to register him as a Havanese. I think both his parents are dual-registered as both Havanese and Havana Silk Dogs. 

Tom, is this correct? Karen, you may also know the answer. Maccabee's parents are Frolic and Posh.


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## krandall

HannahBearsMom said:


> My Maccabee is genetically a Havana Silk Dog, but his breeder chose to register him as a Havanese. I think both his parents are dual-registered as both Havanese and Havana Silk Dogs.
> 
> Tom, is this correct? Karen, you may also know the answer. Maccabee's parents are Frolic and Posh.


Yes. Same with Kodi's parents, Posh and Razzle. They were all "foundation stock" Havana Silk Dogs. (and also AKC registered Havanese) The only difference between Kodi being registered as a Havana Silk Dog (as well as Havanese) and Maccabee being registered "just" as a Havanese are their birth dates. By the time Maccabee was born, the HSDAA had voted that you could ONLY register as Havana Silk Dogs if you wanted to register with that group. The Kings chose to continue to register their dogs as Havanese. But they are EXACTLY the same dogs.


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## Suzi

sandypaws said:


> The breeder you mentioned, Ann Carille, is now known as "Havana Silk Dogs By The Bay". I believe she is an officer or on the board of the Havana Silk Dog organization.


 Is she the one with the designer dog called Island doddle's? And charging a small fortune for a mutt?


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## sandypaws

*New puppy purchase*



Suzi said:


> Is she the one with the designer dog called Island doddle's? And charging a small fortune for a mutt?


No, Suzi, that is Diane Klumb, co-author of "The Havanese". She is in Florida and was formerly known as Bydand Havanese. There are other Havanese/Silk breeders who followed her and are doing the same thing. I can't believe that they have lowered themselves to that.


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## Celesthav

*Havanese breeders in Va Beach*



sandypaws said:


> The breeder you mentioned, Ann Carille, is now known as "Havana Silk Dogs By The Bay". I believe she is an officer or on the board of the Havana Silk Dog organization.


Yes, that's the one in Va Beach. One of her females, Perlita, had a litter in Feb.

This is from her webpage, "Pearl's first litter at By The Bay is planned for February 2013. The Sire will be Starborn Black Tie Affair, "Posh."

I believe she has another litter now, too, from Evita, her havanese.


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## Tom King

Anne can't register her puppies out of Perlita as AKC Havanese, simply because Perlita is a Cuban dog directly from Cuba, and AKC does not accept Cuban dogs unjless they go through another country like Canada. I'm not saying anything about it makes sense, but that's just the way it is. Perlita is a really nice girl. She stayed with us while she was being bred to Posh.

If you are planning on showing AKC it will matter. Otherwise, not. I expect all her puppies are already spoken for anyway.


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## HannahBearsMom

Quilty204 said:


> Yes, that's the one in Va Beach. One of her females, Perlita, had a litter in Feb.
> 
> This is from her webpage, "Pearl's first litter at By The Bay is planned for February 2013. The Sire will be Starborn Black Tie Affair, "Posh."
> 
> I believe she has another litter now, too, from Evita, her havanese.


Posh is Maccabee's sire. He is a wonderful dog, with a wonderful coat (Maccabee inherited his coat ☺). I don't know anything about the breeder, but if the Kings are breeding one of their dogs with one of her dogs, I suspect she is reputable.


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## krandall

Tom King said:


> Anne can't register her puppies out of Perlita as AKC Havanese, simply because Perlita is a Cuban dog directly from Cuba, and AKC does not accept Cuban dogs unjless they go through another country like Canada. I'm not saying anything about it makes sense, but that's just the way it is. Perlita is a really nice girl. She stayed with us while she was being bred to Posh.
> 
> If you are planning on showing AKC it will matter. Otherwise, not. I expect all her puppies are already spoken for anyway.


And you can show in most AKC PERFORMANCE events, even with a non-AKC dog. (some local clubs only allow AKC registered purebreds, but AKC doesn't require it). You just can't show in AKC conformation.


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## atsilvers27

Wow, there are a few things in this thread I TOTALLY did not know. I didn't know silks can't be double-registered anymore. Didn't know Tom's dogs are not being registered as HSDAA. So that means you are showing in AKC Tom? I imagine that will really limit the silk gene pool being so closed off...


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## Suzi

atsilvers27 said:


> Wow, there are a few things in this thread I TOTALLY did not know. I didn't know silks can't be double-registered anymore. Didn't know Tom's dogs are not being registered as HSDAA. So that means you are showing in AKC Tom? I imagine that will really limit the silk gene pool being so closed off...


 if you think about it The American Havanese only started with seven dogs. Some say that another breed was introduced to help the breeding. They found out threw DNA testing. Dorthy's records got lost or aren't available to really know what happened. I call it the Havanese conspiracy. It would be a interesting research to really know the truth. I guess their are people still alive that know the story.


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## Miss Paige

I also know of a wonderful breeder in VA. If interested PM me. I don't get into the discussion about the Havaneses Vs HSDAA- Too many crazy memories of that time and the hurt it did to everyone.


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## GrannyMouse

I also live in Virginia Beach. I looked and looked before I found my first Havanese. Ended up having to go to Tampa, Florida, for my puppy. We now have three from the same breeder, Harbor Havanese. Two are finished champions - well on their way to Grand Champions. One has three group placements owner handled. The newest one is still a puppy. We'll be at the Langley show if you want to chat. PM me if you want more info on Harbor.


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