# Tell me what you think about these videos.



## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

This is a video I took of Vinny herding? our son's dog when we stayed there last weekend. Notice how he keeps Hopey away from me and from Lulu and Gabby. Our trainer tells us Vinny is not dangerous , he just decides when another dog can enter his space. He said Vinny is a great communicator. Vinny can keep another dog out of his space just by laying there staring at the other dog. The next day Vinny did not do this, just the first day. 
Everydog's tail was up and there was no disagreements, Vinny just controls where Hopey can go! The trainer says Vinny is an "old soul with a big pack sense". Interestingly, he said Vinny is not Alpha, Lulu is. He says Lulu is calm and self confident. When I asked him why Lulu didn't act this way he said the general doesn't go out on the battlefield! Very wierd to me.
Carole


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Wow, Carole, that is SO interesting! Vinnie is obviously not letting your son's dog near his pack! Fascinating! It looks more like protecting or guarding to me, not so much herding, but I don't know anything about that. What fun to watch!

Your trainer's theories are really interesting, too.

How is your son's dog? I actually feel a little sorry for him...big guy that can't go where he wants in his own back yard. Did your son mind?


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## Mraymo (Oct 30, 2007)

That was really interesting to watch. Vinny is such a handsome boy. He has a beautiful coat. Sorry :focus:. I know that at the small breed playgroup we go to there is one dog who has issues with guarding but she goes after the dog when they get to close to her owner. I didn't see Vinny getting aggressive.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Looks like he was protecting his peeps! I think it's sweet.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

All I saw were adorable dogs, one in particular protecting her sibs ???


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Very cute! It does look like he is protecting and herding your sons dog away from his sisters... What a great brother. I did feel bad for Hopey... it was like he was different child at the playground... But they all seemed calm. Beautiful Vinny was just in charge.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Chico acts just like Vinny when a guest dog visits, especially male dogs.
I was dogsitting a neighbor's Schnauzer for a few hours one time and he was was scared of Chico and just cowered in a corner.

the video was fun to watch.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Sheri, my son and DDIL didn't get at all upset. They just thought it was dogs setting up their boundaries. I felt sorry for Hopey too until the next day when things improved. 
I've just never seen this before. The trainer stresses that if a disagreement between dogs broke out that it would be the other dogs problem for not being able to read Vinny's clear communication. I guess it's pretty clear!, lol.
It was interesting when the trainer brought his dogs to my house. His dogs read Vinnys "dog speak" very well and recognized their boundaries. Vinny likes "space". The trainer says he is intilted to be respected for wanting his space. Most of us humans like our space too and other people are usually able to read that.
Carole


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

That is fascinating to me! Did the trainer say what might happen if Vinny did this was a dog that might be more aggressive?


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Carole, I should add that Vinny is beautiful! I love his coat and color! 

I've watched these a few times. So interesting and clear what he's doing.


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

That was so interesting to watch, pretty neat that big brother kept an eye out for everyone!


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## RikiDaisyDixie (Apr 15, 2008)

*Look at those other two...*

Just letting him do all the work! LOL

Riki has protected Daisy at the dog park. He won't let bigger dogs near her, unless he is off peeing and marking.

I think Vinny is wonderful.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Kathy said:


> That is fascinating to me! Did the trainer say what might happen if Vinny did this was a dog that might be more aggressive?


Kathy~ Don't know what the trainer would say. But, after being at Carole's for several hours one day and having Vinnie do this to her, Tori eventually snarled and snapped at him. He backed away and all was good. It seemed she was telling him she'd had enough of it and he was ok w/it. Go figure!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Fascinating! I have to say that I wasn't sure the other dog was going to take it well. At one point, in the first clip, I sensed some tension in how he held his tail and I thought "oh oh!", but no. ..... guess they worked things out nicely. 

Leslie, I think Ricky might do that too. He'd end up snapping (at the air) because he might be fed up after a while. That is, if he ever came out from under my chair!


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Kathy, it was interesting on Wed when the trainer was here. He brought a shepherd out of the car first and walked him up to our little pack. The shepherd stayed 10 feet away. John (trainer) tried to bring him closer and the dog stayed back. That's when John said Vinny sends out loud communication and his dog was hearing it.
Next he brought Bear out of the car. He said Bear wouldn't give a s--- what Vinny said but as they approached Vinny laid down and stared at Bear. Bear respected his space!! Even John was amazed.
That's when he said that Vinny communicates his feelings and if another dog doesn't listen it would not be Vinny's problem
Now if an aggressive dog ever approached I don't know what Vinny would do. My guess is he would try to defend but would back down pretty easy. I will always have to be on the alert for that.
As Leslie said, eventually Vinny lets the other dog in his pack, I guess after he senses they are OK or they get tired of his behavior. 
It will be interesting at Susan's on Sat.
Carole


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I think Vinnie is a great brother not letting a large dog around his little sisters. All of your furbabies are beautiful. I thought of you the other day when I had to run my grandson to Wal-Mart. We were in the dog section (of course) and they have the cutest LuLu line of clothes and the cutest pink bed with "LuLu" embroidered in it. You should check them out if you haven't.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

LuvCicero said:


> I think Vinnie is a great brother not letting a large dog around his little sisters. All of your furbabies are beautiful. I thought of you the other day when I had to run my grandson to Wal-Mart. We were in the dog section (of course) and they have the cutest LuLu line of clothes and the cutest pink bed with "LuLu" embroidered in it. You should check them out if you haven't.


OMGosh, I will have to go look. I'm tring to stay away from clothes but the bed sounds great. I can just picture Vinny in it, lmao.
Carole


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

That bed is cute. I made a picture of it with my cell phone but don't know how to get it on the computer. DH would have killed me....but I would have bought it if it didn't have Lulu on the bottom....LOL...men wear pink!!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Carole- That is really interesting. He is definitely dominant. But he seems calm about it. Belle does some of that but she always nips and lets of large growls when dogs come to close. I like how Gabby and Lulu just sit and watch... next time make them some popcorn!


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Carole, they are all adorable, and that was really incredible to watch little Vinny protect Lulu, Gabby and you from big Hopey. Glad everything went smoothly.
Gina


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## tabby2 (Jan 19, 2009)

It was very interesting to me how calm but definite he was about it -- not making the short little dashes and constant yips that a Sheltie might do.


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## Salsa's Mom (Mar 18, 2008)

Carole, that was really interesting. I'm trying to get better at reading the communication signals that dogs use. What a great idea to take a video. Then you can go back and catch some of the signals that you might miss in the real moment. I think I should take my video to the dog park.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I felt really bad for Hopey, who was only trying to walk around his own yard. I would be very concerned if Vinny did that with an aggressive dog.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

*Who was this made for????*

I think I know a Princess that needs this bed. 
I watched the video again and I agree with Amanda....the girls need popcorn...lol


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

OMG, Carole you've got to buy that bed! It's at Walmart so that means it's almost free!!!


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Those video are very interesting. I’m not sure if it is herding or guarding. Your trainers concept is interesting also about the general and soldiers. We had a similar situation with my DD’s little dog and the toys. She did these same movements to Smarty all the time if she started towards any of the toys. Glad it all worked out so Hopey had some peace the next day.


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

Aw Vinnie is just taking care of the pack there. I guess Hopey passed the test. Poor Hopey that was his yard? LOL Vinnie has major cojones doing that on someone elses turf. Carole you should be proud to be part of Vinnie's pack. Lulu may rule the roost but Vinnie is obviously the muscle. haha


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Amanda, do you think Vinny is dominate? I wonder why John thinks Lulu is Alpha? I always thought they kinda shared the role. When he climbs up the stairs to get on our bed if Lulu is laying on the bed at the top of the stairs on the bed he just sits there and crys! I wonder if there can be a female AND male alpha in one house?? 

Sandi, that was my first sign of Vinny doing what he does. A lady with her two havs came over about a year ago and Vinny "herded" them away from his toys.

I am sure I will be finding out what he will do when he faces an aggressing dog. I have to really be on alert for it. I don't want to stop taking him places because maybe that is exactly what he needs to do in order to not feel the need to protect??? arghh
Carole


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Yeah Luna, he's the "hit man", lol. Vinny Pellegrino!
Carole


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Carole- definitely. You met Isabelle and remember her being a **** running around trying to get Racquet and a few others. She is dominant although not alpha. I didn't realize that until I added Dash and had the 3 dynamic to really see the difference. Belle backs down to Dora but msot assume Belle is alpha. Dora doesnt run around and act like a crazy monster, she doesn't have to. When Belle gets a little too crazy or bites Dash and he yelps then Dora flies her butt up and either pins Belle down or lifts up her leg and sniffs her. I have only seen Dora put Dash in his place. Normally she is fine t play with him but one time, he went to attack her when she had a bully. The other time, he kept trying to hump her in play and she decided enough. She landed on top of him, he submitted and it was over. But all the bark and nastiness comes from Belle mainly. I think she just does the big dog in a little dog body attitude but she never tries to do to Dora what she does to Dash.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I love Vinny Pelligrino! and I love this thread! it really confirms for me that my boys are both Beta dogs. they take their turns being boss and humping each other...and they pretty much just watch other dogs.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

So I guess he's right when he says your general doesn't fight the battles. Very interesting.
Missy, you're lucky!


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

mellowbo said:


> Yeah Luna, he's the "hit man", lol. Vinny Pellegrino!
> Carole


I guess in your house that makes Lulu the GodMother. LOL Vinny is such a character. I can just hear him saying Fagetaboutit, haha


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## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

The videos and insight are fascinating. Nala can be a bit snarly when she meets a dog head on. Usually my technique is to take the dog on a walk with Nala and then she is adjusted and says hello a little bit better!

Interestingly, my friend has a very dominant mid sized dog (much bigger than Nala) and Nala really respects her and has never made a peep to her and follows her around. It's obvious that Nala respects her!

I love learning more about how dogs behave and I am thrilled that Nala is making more friends!
I am going to watch the video again!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

mellowbo said:


> Interestingly, he said Vinny is not Alpha, Lulu is. He says Lulu is calm and self confident. When I asked him why Lulu didn't act this way he said the general doesn't go out on the battlefield! Very wierd to me.


I agree with this. So many people confuse the assertive dog as "alpha" and that is not the case. A true alpha is a silent leader. I see Vinny as the beta in the group, although I'm not sure you really have the correct dynamics there for a _true_ alpha & beta (because it really requires a certain number of intact males & females as well as those that are not able to produce), but he is certainly showing the beta behavior. The way to recognize it is to remember the nickname "beta bully". I see the beta dog as "the enforcer."


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Interesting Kimberly. That follows what the trainer said. Who'da thunk mild mannered little Lulu was alpha, lol. It will be interesting to see how Gabby falls in.
Carole


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

oops did I say Beta? I guess my boys are Omega then or what ever you call last in command.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I agree with you, Kimberly. I think it's the silent one that kind of "rules the roost". Sammy is small, timid around people, but he's definitely alpha over Ricky. Ricky could squish him with one paw, but is afraid of Sammy so will either bark his fool head off at him, or approach him carefully. That is, unless they're playing/wrestling, then it's everyone for himself and they have a blast! lol 

I love learning about the dynamics between certain dogs.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Missy said:


> I love Vinny Pelligrino! and I love this thread! it really confirms for me that my boys are both Beta dogs. they take their turns being boss and humping each other...and they pretty much just watch other dogs.


I think mine are too. Just talking about this with DH as the dogs play and jump all over each other. Scooter is more skittish and will hang back but Murphy is always ready to face anything! Does that make him the alpha? We don't know.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Now see Ann, that is a great question. In your case maybe the more active one is the Alpha? Or is there always an Alpha? Like in Missy's case, maybe there is no alpha either? 
Hmmm, I have Cesar's book, maybe it says something in there. When I get home I'll actually read it, lol.
Carole


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

No, there is not always an alpha (nor beta). I'm not even sure Vinny is a true beta, but he is definitely exhibiting beta behavior.


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## Chere (May 22, 2009)

I loved the videos; I noticed one of my Havs herding and wondered about that behavior. He wasn't agressive but he was definitely herding. I read somewhere that they used to herd chickens in Cubs; have no idea whether that is true or not but what else would such little guys herd?


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I heard that too, Chere. Don't forget, though, cows are herded by shepherds and collies who are much smaller, so size isn't a factor. I can't see a Hav herding a horse, mind you, but hey. .. if he has the cujones to do it, should be a sight to see! lol


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