# STILL loose poopy, NOW what?



## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Ok, so, In my quest to get Harry on a better diet I am thinking he does best on the crap. What kind of kibble should I pick now? :frusty:On the wellness we would get 1 decent poo a day but more volumonous and definately more often poohs throughout the day. Then I S L O W L Y switched him to gold wee bit. Although, it is better, he still only has 1 good pooh a day the first one of the day, and poohs less, but the remainder are still pudding and sometimes messy. so, when we got him he was on euk puppy. I am wondering if I should go grain free with the natural balance or do their lamb n rice limited formula. i don't know what can be causing it in the food itself. The vet over the phone said some puppies just hav sensitive stomachs. He doesn't get very many treats. I was thinking of using a probiotic, but then the wellness already had that in it, so that probably wouldn't help him. He is almost 6 months. Can a vet run tests to see what type of foods bother puppies?

Here are the ingredients from the last 2
Solid Gold Just a Wee Bit Small Breed Adult Maintenance Dog Food
4 lbs. 
SKU: 976423
Bison, Salmon Meal, Millet, Brown Rice, Cracked Pearled Barley, Rice Bran, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Flaxseed Oil, Garlic, Amaranth, Blueberries, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Taurine, Carotene, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, (a chelated source of iron), Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of zinc), Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of copper), Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of manganese), Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine

Wellness
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Barley, Salmon Meal (a natural source of DHA - Docosahexaenoic Acid), Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Ground Brown Rice, Tomato Pomace, Rice Bran, Tomatoes, Natural Chicken Flavor, Rye Flour, Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Ground Millet, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Chicory Root Extract, Garlic, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Have you thought of getting a consultation with Sabine at The Dog Food Project. ? It might be well worth it. The amount of probiotics in kibble is negligible. Most vets do not know much about nutrition.


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

I would absolutely stop ALL treats/chews/bones. Feed NOTHING but kibble for 4-5 days and see if it's truly the food that is making his stools soft-


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Have you tried Fastrack Canine Microbial Supplement?

Tori gets this and ProZyme regularly. She has never had loose stools or diarrhea, ever, in spite of food changes.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Tucker gets the Prozyme, too, and I think it helps. But, he still randomly gets loose stools, enough that he has to have backside baths about 3-4 times a month, in addition to his regular baths every two weeks. He's always had issues with this, especially with the *better* foods!! Grrr.

If you figure anything out, share it with us, please. Tucker did best with the Nutro Ultra, which got a lot of bad press for causing some serious health problems with dogs, so I stopped it. Don't want the health issues, but he sure had better stools with it.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Sheri~ Have you tried giving the Fastrack and Prozyme together? That's what Tori gets w/her kibble (I don't give it w/the raw) and she has great poop!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Leslie, did Tori _ever _ have loose stool problems, or do you just give it to her just in case?


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Sheri~ She's been on it from the get-go. Mainly because Shadow dealt w/the soft stools and her breeder recommended it, so I just continued using it for Tori. Tori can eat anything and it doesn't seem to bother her. I think it's because the Fastrack and Prozyme keep the intestinal bacteria in a good balance.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Leslie, well, I guess I need to try it, then. It seems like using two enzyme supplements might be overkill, and it is hard to get Tucker to eat in the first place, but I need to get some to try, I guess. 

Thank you for the suggestion.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Sheri~ I just sprinkle them on her kibble in the AM and put a squirt of fish oil on it. She always licks off the fish oil and hence, the supplements. She typically eats only about 1/2-2/3 of the 1/4 c. of kibble I give her. However, she gets raw at night and licks that bowl clean as a whistle!


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Sheri-
I would be very curious as to how your doggies do on it, so let me know, what do you currently feed?
I am thinking that this will be my next try, and then I would do the supplements. I am thinking it is probably all the good extras they put in some of high rated foods.
What do you think of this?

Natural balance INGREDIENT LISTING 
Lamb Meal, Brown Rice, Ground White Rice, Rice Bran, Canola Oil, Lamb, Tomato Pomace, Natural Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

Crude Protein 21.0% minimum 
Crude Fat 12.0% minimum 
Crude Fiber 4.0% maximum 
Moisture 10.0% maximum 
Calcium 1.2% minimum 
Phosphorus 1.0% minimum 
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.3% minimum 
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 1.7% minimum 

Or the duck?
INGREDIENT LISTING 
Potatoes, Duck, Potato Protein, Canola Oil (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Potato Fiber, Natural Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, L-Carnitine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS 
Crude Protein 21.0% minimum 
Crude Fat 10.0% minimum 
Crude Fiber 3.0% maximum 
Moisture 10.0% maximum 
Calcium 1.0% minimum 
Phosphorus 0.9% minimum 
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.5% minimum 
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 0.01% minimum 
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.0% minimum 


See I don't know if it is the grains or the fruits/veg giving the pudding pies.
I think it is probably the fruits/vegs. Canidae has a grain free all life stages but it has fruits and vegs in it. Plus I know the canidae has a bad past.

Do you think it is more likely the grains or the fruits/vegs giving the softees.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

MopTop Havanese said:


> I would absolutely stop ALL treats/chews/bones. Feed NOTHING but kibble for 4-5 days and see if it's truly the food that is making his stools soft-


Excellent idea! Also a food consultation with Sabine was a good one, too. Has your vet tried hypoallergenic yet? If all else fails, the prescription hypoallergenic Science Diet my vet carries has really stopped Marble's chronic loose stools, so you may want to give that a try. Gina


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

up until recently, my dog had always had trouble poop. keep in mind if you switch food, it takes just 10 days to 2 weeks to transition to a new food and then they need a week or two to adjust and regulate. i only speak from changing my dogs food often,he had alot of stomache issues and i was alwasy trying to find the perfect kibble. my vet said to keep it simple. only kibble for 2 weeks. see how your pup does. i know beef and wheat are hard on their systems, my dog eats wellness chicken 5 mix. he now has addisons and i asked the vet if i needed to make any dietary changes now with his new diagnosis and he said no. i tried the raw, etc. it only made things worse. just give him his wellness kibble for 1 week and see how things go.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

littlebuddy said:


> up until recently, my dog had always had trouble poop. keep in mind if you switch food, it takes just 10 days to 2 weeks to transition to a new food and then they need a week or two to adjust and regulate. .


By the time I get the food figured out it'll be time to switch him from puppy to adult...:jaw:


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Have you thought of getting a consultation with Sabine at The Dog Food Project. ? It might be well worth it. The amount of probiotics in kibble is negligible. Most vets do not know much about nutrition.


I don't know if that would really be beneficial because its not like he has normal stools, I mean they wouldn't be able to tell me what exactly is giving him the bad stools just from talking would they? Plus don't their dietary needs change when they are a year old, and then they will be off of puppy food and into adult food? I have 6 months and I am assuming I will be needing to switch him.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Cicero has been on adult since we got him as a puppy. I don't think it's necessary to use the puppy food and especially not for a year. Maybe others on here will let you know but I think lots just use the adult food.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Something else I do not understand is that his first stool of the day after overnight in his crate is perfect, then it goes downhill from there. So, could it just be he has a sensitive tummy and NO food is going to give him good consistant stool?


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Who knew how much affect a little pup's stools could have on your lifestyle, huh? And, how little sense it makes trying to figure out what the problem is....


Sigh...


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

I am SOOOO tired of watching him poo!!!I would much rather watch a movieopcorn: I never expected it to be this hard to figure out, and I think he can't handle the good foods. Probably needs to be on some crap food. Get it? CRAP food... maybe the poo watching has affected my brain:brick:


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

*Blood mucus oh my!*

Well we are dealing with the yuckies. He has sometimes a little blood and mucus in his droppings, I am holding out until he is transitioned for like 3 weeks until I take him to the vet. He did not have that symptom until I started to switch his food, so I am thinking it the the switching of the food.

I am hoping that this works, otherwise, I guess testing and maybe the duck formula or going on a script diet? I am assuming the script diet would be costly.
I am thinking of giving him yogurt during this transition to help the tummy. 
He so far doesn't have gas like he did on the wee bit, which is promising.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Sending heart-felt sympathy your way!....


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## PepperToast (Oct 27, 2008)

Oh your poor little doggie and poor you. 

It sounds like you do need to strip his diet down to bare essentials and stabilize his digestive tract before you find "the one". I know that you want to be careful introducing too many protein sources during this time (not saying that you are...). He has the potential to become sensitive to many of them if you keep on this course. Pick one and stay with it until you know if it is bad or good.

Feeding raw makes diet changes fairly controlled but I know you are not ready to go there yet, and in fact I don't think you should right now. But you might want to consider trying a boiled ground meat starting with chicken or better yet bison (NO BONES!!!) and rice. This can be made in bulk and frozen in chunks. This is a very common diet for sick doggies and is nutritious (enough) and bland. This might give his body a chance to recover (no blood or mucous). Then in a month you can start again. I would also limit the supplements at this time except for a non dairy, no wheat probiotic added to his meals. No oils or anything else though. 

Obviously these are just suggestions. I had to do this for my dog after a very persistent bowel infection and it helped him recover from the inflammation of the infection.

Meeka


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I think you will find out how to solve this with a consultation with Sabine. It is worth the small fee she charges. Believe me ,she has helped a number of people from this forum , including me. Here is her site http://www.betterdogcare.com/?page=about


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

Oh the poor guy. I think his tummy really needs a break. How many different foods has he been on over the past few weeks?
A food transistion should be done very very slowly, adding just a few kibbles the first day, then a bit more the next day, by the 3rd day 1/4 new food for a couple days, then 1/2 new food then slowly add more until the old food is transitioned out. It should take at least a week to get to 100% new food.
Then stay on that food for at least 2-3 weeks so his body can become accustomed to it- I wonder if you aren't trying to many things too quickly.
And like I said before- stop ALL chews and treats ect while he is transitioning to the new food.
I wish you luck!


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

I'm sorry you're going through this. It can be frustrating. When Maddie was younger, she had a sudden period of loose stools which progressed to mucous in the stool. Her vet said that she had colitis probably caused from an intolerance to something in her food. I put her on a strict elimination diet. I used a new protein source that she never had (turkey) and rice. You don't see an improvement immediately, since the colon has to heal from the irritation. Once her poops were better, I gradually added back ingredients one at a time to see if she had a reaction. I found out she has an intolerance to wheat (she had been given dog biscuits with wheat in them). When I reintroduced wheat, she immediately got mucousy, bloody stools! Since then, she's been back on kibble with absolutely no wheat in her diet (its in many treats).

I also found that certain of the better foods like Innova and Wellness gave her looser stools. Her breeder uses Fromms which is an excellent quality kibble, and we've been on that since. She has firm stools with no problem on Fromms, but every dog is different. Once you find out what's causing the problem and eliminating it, then you can gradually try a good kibble. Here's a good website discussing food intolerance and the elimination diet: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2111&aid=143

Edited to add: I'm sure you've already had a stool sample analyzed by the vet, right? Just want to make sure you're not dealing with giardia, parasites, or something else.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

I feel your pain. We have had the poopiest past few days. I cannot wait for my consult with Sabine. It cannot come soon enough (the week of 5/18). I too am desperate for something that works but I have no idea what that is.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Well, I think I have been going slow enough through this transistion. He is as of yesterday exclusively on the new lamb n rice formula. He still has a little blood or mucous in some of his droppings. He is still having unfirm stools, and the morning one is pretty good, but the rest still not so good. So, I am going to give him some time on this new food, maybe a week or should it be 2 weeks?
If this doesn't help I am wondering what the next step should be?
Should I do fast track-prozyme?
Back to the vet ( I don't feel as if they are very nutritionally knowledgeable)?
Do the consult with sabine?
Look for a no grain puppy kibble (is there such a thing?)
Maybe do the sweet potato natural balance or the duck?
Give a pepto with every meal?:doh:
I have tried giving him one acidophilous pill one time a day, but if it is helping its very little.
I know I can do pumpkin, but that just a temporary fix too.
hhhhmm, just wondering what should be my next move if needed....
Supposedly he has no parasites, but can't they get them at any time really?


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Murphy had some mucous and a tiny bit of blood in his stool and he had Clostridium Perfringens, it's a bacteria that produces a toxin. He's on Metronidazole, 30mg, twice a day. We noticed that he had diarrhea and had an accident inside which is when we noticed the blood. There was quite a bit of mucous though. Has he been tested for this? It's not a routine test so you may have to ask for it and they'll need a stool sample.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

When Evye had her spay consult yesterday, I mentioned that she had just got over a terrible bout of diarrhea and that Bentley had chronic diarrhea. Since Evye is a stool nibbler, he did a rectal exam and took a stool sample which he sent off to a lab that had more sophisticated diagnostics. It came back negative...but what I learned is that not all vet's offices have up-to-date, state of the art equipment. Blood and mucus is definitely an indicator of something in the GI tract and I wouldn't guess diet to be the cause. IMO. My next endeavor is a nutritional consult with Sabina scheduled the week of 5/18. I do not intend to inform my vet of this consult until and unless we have a positive outcome (or output rather).


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Well just wanted to let everyone know that Harry had a good tootsie this am and he even had one this evening....which NEVER happens. So, keep sending good tootsie vibes this way!


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Ann and sharlene, good info to have, since we had a decent day with output, I will wait a little bit longer and see what happens with the blood/mucus. Since from what I read it can also be a result of food intolerance.

I am hoping to have this issue resolved and of course there is always another issue around here things just never end:doh:


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

HOORAY....Wishing you another great tootsie day.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Evye's Mom said:


> HOORAY....Wishing you another great tootsie day.


thanks, we need that. Maybe if this finally gets ettled than his behavior will be easier to deal with since I will have one less thing to worry over.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Of course the lamb n rice isn't perfect, but so far the best food, I am thinking duckn potato or venision n sweet pot which are both grain free. When his stool isn't very formed it looks grainy, which makes me wonder if he isn't processing the food or absorbing the nutrients. I have been giving anti diar OTC med hoping it will help his system and then am considering supplement suggestions from here, but first I figured I would try to figure out food first and then the supplements...

I guess he could have colitis or IBS, but he acts perfectly fine, so I am not rushing to the vet. I did have ANOTHER fecal done up and it was clear. He is 11.9lbs, WOW, so he isn't losing weight, only gaining!


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## baxterboy (Mar 17, 2009)

We tried so many different things with Baxter for loose stools (he always has had pudding poop.) FINALLY, the vet put him on Royal Canin Limited ingredient kibble (potato and venison.) NO treats, nothing for the first few weeks. Within a week, he was having normal stools. He really likes the food too! He never got excited about eating before, but he loves this new food. I got the canned version to stuff in his kong, and after about 3 weeks or so, I started trying one kind of treat a week.... just a little bit. So far, he hasn't had any reaction to the addition of treats, and his stools are completely normal. For us, this kibble did the trick!


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## baxterboy (Mar 17, 2009)

Sam375 said:


> Of course the lamb n rice isn't perfect, but so far the best food, I am thinking duckn potato or venision n sweet pot which are both grain free. When his stool isn't very formed it looks grainy, which makes me wonder if he isn't processing the food or absorbing the nutrients. I have been giving anti diar OTC med hoping it will help his system and then am considering supplement suggestions from here, but first I figured I would try to figure out food first and then the supplements...
> 
> I guess he could have colitis or IBS, but he acts perfectly fine, so I am not rushing to the vet. I did have ANOTHER fecal done up and it was clear. He is 11.9lbs, WOW, so he isn't losing weight, only gaining!


Oops, I hadn't read this before I posted. It sounds like he's on a very similar food to the Royal Canin.... Maybe it wouldn't work for him after-all


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

very informative...

http://www.dogaware.com/specific.html#diarrhea


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## PepperToast (Oct 27, 2008)

Wow,

That is a great site! Still having trouble?!?!? That is not nice at all. It is hard to imagine that he is so sensitive. I know that potato and duck is another great alternative. My son was given a probiotic, an oil and L-glutamine to help his bowels when he had long term soft stools. It worked really well. I would recommend that since your pup definitely has some healing to do there.

Good luck.

Meeka


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

How is the transistion going?
Harry so far is doing the best on the duck n potato, but I do not like the really low protein count, so I am thinking he needs a grain free non chicken protein food. I have a list and will see when his bag gets low what I can get from the list at the local petco, petvalu or pet store.

I also of course looked at all the websites ratings of the foods to try a get a list of possible high quality which meet the ingredient reqirements.
I have not given him any diarreha med and he is still much better on this food than any other I have put him on, he still has small pudding pies but nothing like before. Still blood in the stool too but not alot of that either.

Canine caviar venison
Orijen Fish
Nature's variety duck n turk
Natura EVO red
solid gold barking at the moon
petcurean puppy GF
instict duck n turkey
welness core ocean
acana grassland lamb or pacifica
canidae salmon ( i know the bad history though)
Fromm
Natures logic venison


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Leslie said:


> Have you tried Fastrack Canine Microbial Supplement?
> 
> Tori gets this and ProZyme regularly. She has never had loose stools or diarrhea, ever, in spite of food changes.


When Tori was a baby she had her food changed often to avoid having problems with changing foods. So far I haven't heard of any of our puppies that have a stool problem.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Sam375 said:


> Ok, so, In my quest to get Harry on a better diet I am thinking he does best on the crap. .


Why don't you go back to the 'crap' food then? Remember when dogs lived long healthy lives on kibbles and bits? Others can disagree till the cows come home but I don't buy the 5 star rating list. Show me one dog that's lived longer because of a 5 star food. It's impossible because the list hasn't been out long enough to prove it. I can show you dogs that lived 16-20 years on 'crap' and I go by what my dogs do best on. For firmer stools try Purina Pro Plan, Chicken for small dogs.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I have a friend who feeds her dog the cheapest stuff you can get at Walmart, I think it's called Ol Roy. They've fed it to all of their dogs and her last one, a daschund, lived for 17 years and died of old age. She thinks I'm nuts.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

See, my dilemma was that he had OK output when I got him, but still much to be desired and then it got worse, and of course between puppy shots, stress, interceptor, and worm meds along with a case of coccidia and girardia with his first puppy visit to the vet right after we got him, he (in my theory) just got all messed up.
So, at this point I don't know how he would do if I did go back to the "crap" food.
I definately think there is a valid point as to those dogs who grew up on the cheapest and lived long lives. I guess my feeling isn't so much that he is going to live so much longer on the healthier food but that maybe he won't get some of the ailments that other dogs MAY get? 
I dunno, at this point I just want a good out come all the way around, and it may even be the crap food that works in the end...get it, in the end...:doh:?


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Scooter's Family said:


> I have a friend who feeds her dog the cheapest stuff you can get at Walmart, I think it's called Ol Roy. They've fed it to all of their dogs and her last one, a daschund, lived for 17 years and died of old age. She thinks I'm nuts.


This isn't going to be a popular statement but I think you're dealing with peer pressure and good marketing to get your money for a 'better' dog food. I've said it before....I think we are screwing up dogs with this 'better' stuff. Remember when dogs ate what we ate? Onion soup, lean cusine frozen dinners, sausage patties, you name it. How the heck did they manage to live to be so old? Try that now with a dog


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

My Brittany lived to be 12, on fit n trim, kibbles n bits, gravy train, scraps, etc, etc....
She did in her old age get stiffness,and ultimately heart failure took her but not before she had incontinence problems, and kidney problems, mild cataracts, fatty tumors.
But I guess the argument would be would she had lived longer or at least maybenot have had some of her problems? Dunno, and of course there is something to be said for genetics. Like american cats can't drink milk, but if you live in europe their cats tolerate milk fine. 
I guess ultimately time will tell. Will this new food generation live a long time? Maybe there will be 20-25-30 year old Havs? Could it possibly get to the point where we have to put the doggies in our will like people have to do for their parrots?


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

My mother's dog lived to be 17, nearly 18. The dog ate the cat food, the cat age the dog food.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Geez...*ate *the dog food (it's been a long day).

I still consider myself a novice puppy mom. I am open to any and all suggestions. And I am beginning to realize Bentley does the best on Iams prescription low-residue. Not the best of foods IMO, but the best food for him at this point in his life. At least it's not cat food.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Evye's Mom said:


> Geez...*ate *the dog food (it's been a long day).
> 
> I still consider myself a novice puppy mom. I am open to any and all suggestions. And I am beginning to realize Bentley does the best on Iams prescription low-residue. Not the best of foods IMO, but the best food for him at this point in his life. At least it's not cat food.


What works for your dog is the BEST food. It doesn't matter what dog X or dog Y eats and works for them. It just matters what works for your dog


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

*Much better*

I am keeping my fingers crossed but it seems like the blood has finally gone away and the grain free non chicken protein source sems to be working.
I did buy the wellness core fish to add to it because it has a better protein level, and he is tolerating that also. So, all in all I think I have done right by him so far, since the cheaper foods would have had grains in them and he seems to have a sensitive tummy.
Maybe if he never would have had the health issues he did when I got him maybe he wouldn't have developed a sensitive tummy. Hopefully long term I have found the right foods. At least there is more commercially available grain free and unique protein sources than there use to be.
He still isn't perfect, but a huge improvement, and definately more of a liveable output.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

And people who smoke live to be 100. Doesn't mean that crap food is insignificant. Try reading Food Pets Die For. You will think twice before feeding crap food.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Sam, I answered your question and I posted this in the California Naturals thread but thought I would post it in your thread too.

We have been using the Arabinogalactan Powder by Food Science of Vermont for less than a month. I got it from a canine nutritionist, Sabine, who has been talked about on this forum. After my success with Cash's diet from her, my vet asked me to ask Sabine if she had any recommendations for Jasper's Anal Gland problem (they need to be expressed frequently) She suggested a 1/2 tsp a day and adjusted as needed. It is too soon to tell if it is helping with his AG issues (his are complicated by being in the wrong place) ...but it has made the stools better and cash much more comfortable (no straining.)

When she first suggested I did some research... and it is also listed on a lot of pet med sites just for a lot more money. It is also the first ingredient in a product I had been using called canine comfort but my boys did not like the taste of it. this apparently is tasteless and just disolves on food. I give a 1/4 tsp with each meal. I have not tried to stop yet but may at some point... I am curious to see if it works for the AG's.

Jasper also always had loose poops as a puppy and even up until we started the arab...powder...his first poop was fine, but his 2nd one (usually does 2 at a time) was loose. The vets always said don't worry, dogs have diahrea. 
and it never really bothered us as most of the time Jas somehow avoided getting poopy butt. But I have to say he seems happier now that this powder has made his poops better....as I said I am very eager to see if it helps with his AG's and if we can go longer between expressings...

It is certainly worth a try for you. you can get it at most of the on-line vitamin stores...Lucky Vitamins or Vitacost has it at the best prices.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Missy said:


> Sam, I answered your question and I posted this in the California Naturals thread but thought I would post it in your thread too.
> 
> We have been using the Arabinogalactan Powder by Food Science of Vermont for less than a month. I got it from a canine nutritionist, Sabine, who has been talked about on this forum. After my success with Cash's diet from her, my vet asked me to ask Sabine if she had any recommendations for Jasper's Anal Gland problem (they need to be expressed frequently) She suggested a 1/2 tsp a day and adjusted as needed. It is too soon to tell if it is helping with his AG issues (his are complicated by being in the wrong place) ...but it has made the stools better and cash much more comfortable (no straining.)
> 
> ...


Good for you Missy, I have said all along , when you have constant problems it is best to seek a professional. Sabine is one of them.


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## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

Sam375 said:


> See, my dilemma was that he had OK output when I got him, but still much to be desired and then it got worse, and of course between puppy shots, stress, interceptor, and worm meds along with a case of coccidia and girardia with his first puppy visit to the vet right after we got him, he (in my theory) just got all messed up.
> 
> 
> > I know that you said he has improved, and I am glad he has! Just a suggestion for next time. You might could try slippery elm. I buy the NOW capsules, You could give about 1/2 capsule -- put it in a small jar and add a bit of water and stir with a fork. Let it sit a little while to absorb some of the water. Give before meals. It will coat his stomach and might help when he is having problems. Just don't do it long, long term b/c it might interfer withe the uptake of nutrients since it coats the stomach. I think it might help in some cases of irritation and might give the stomach some aid in healing with the coating effect. Dosage varies - I have read about 1/2 capsule per 10 lbs of weight. My boy will drink it on it's own, but I have to add a bit of canned food (you could try baby food, or plain canned pumpkin) for taste.
> ...


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Dave, I have really enjoyed my relationship with Sabine and she has worked for us. But she is the first to say she can't solve everything...I love sharing my success but worry that offering her as an answer to everything may make her seem less genuine than she really is. I don't want people to feel she is gimmicky. In my opinion she is the real deal...but may not be the answer for everyone.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I raised many boxers to the age of 12 to 14 years old on Kennel L Bisket with Alpo added for flavor. 12 years is a very old age for a boxer even today. They were spray and healthy until the end of their lives. If and when we had any form of loose stools we added Plain Dannon Yogurt to their food and in very little time the stools firmed up. I am not saying the new forms of dog food are not better for our dogs. Heck if we did not progress with all our research and new knowledge we may as well stay in the past. I would have kept Smarty on Purina Pro Plan had it not been for the constant itching. Natural Balance stopped the itching but she ended up with constant UT infections, now I hear sweet potatos may be the cause. No one solution.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

I really appreciate all the advice. I wasn't yet desperate enough to do the Sabine consult because I felt like I was on the right path, something just told me between all the knowledge I gained from these forums and internet info that I was doing the right things on my own to figure out the food issue.

That being said I do think that everyone's dogs are differnt, along with home life and financial situations. Which can make people do things different. Anyway, he still has room for improvement, but right now I am taking it one item at a time, since his stools are better overall I don't want to add a supplement just yet until I know for sure his food is agreeing with him. Then I think I will do the supplements (2) I already bought, one at a time, and then when there empty I guess I will see how he does on nothing and then try the arab. I did not know about the arab until after I already bought the others (of course that always seems to happen).
He sometimes goes twice also, and usually moves, continues to squat with nothing or just a couple of drips which I guess is straining? Plus he still rubs his butt on the ground too. But at least I am starting to get the pudding pies to improve....
I will continue to post and look for advice as I continue to battle one issu at a time. Will it ever end????


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Missy said:


> Dave, I have really enjoyed my relationship with Sabine and she has worked for us. But she is the first to say she can't solve everything...I love sharing my success but worry that offering her as an answer to everything may make her seem less genuine than she really is. I don't want people to feel she is gimmicky. In my opinion she is the real deal...but may not be the answer for everyone.


I agree Missy, what I am saying ,is that if someone has had an issue with diet that they cannot seem to resolve ;rather that taking advice from everyone and trying numerous things ,it is better to seek professional help. And right Sabine does not have the answer to every problem, but for a small fee, I would sooner try her than just guessing as to possible remedies. When it comes to health issues I will always recommend a professional. Same with training issues if they are serious.


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## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

It's still not 'pudding pie' is it? I thought you were talking about loosly formed poops, where you might have to do a bit of clean up on their backside, but it was mostly formed.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

*stool*

He no longer has pudding pies, which was horrible.

His first stool of the day usually is perfect in the beginning and then gets softer. Then when he goes the other times of day it is good but not perfect. Like I would describ a perfect stool as easy to pick up it a plastic bag or scooper and not leave any thing behind on the grass or in the scoop. But his stools are usually formed after the first one but more softer and harder to pick up cleanly. Like in comparison a tootsie roll versus a firm soft serve ice cream.

The blood has stopped, and no more pudiing, and he seems to strain a little and continue to walk, squat and try to go while a drip or 2 comes out.
So he's not perfect but has improved.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

This thread is a good one-made me feel much better. After getting MiG I'm amazed how much I forgot. When I brought him home the breeder had all of the dogs on Taste of the Wild Prairie. She sent some home with me, but he wouldn't touch it after visiting Pixie's bowl and tasting the Wilderness she eats. I know how important it is to feed these peewees to avoid low blood sugar, so I "transitioned" him (way too quickly) to the Wilderness, then I decided to get him on Wellnes Super 5 puppy. Another rushed "transition". He has had a few good poops here and there, but mostly soft serve poops so far. AND, the cherry on top is that he likes to lick it off the potty if I don't catch him first uke: Totally gross!!!!!!! Houston, we have a poop eater.
Now I'm going to have to try and deal with that too. I thought to give him some probiotic powder but the measurement is 1/4 tsp to 30 lbs, and I'd need to go to a laboratory to properly measure that for him. I just dipped my finger in some and let him lick it off. I figure it cannot hurt. He poops ALL DAY, literally. I wonder if any other new puppy people are dealing with this.


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## Sam375 (Feb 2, 2009)

Hi-
Oh, I do NOT miss those days. Harry had a grain problem, so I went grain free and that has made him stable.

I bought the anti diarreha dog medicines which are OTC and they helped me tremendously contain my sanity through the horrible period u r going through right now. I would suggest the probiotics, and doing the anti diarreha med from the pet store, think its pectin based or something.

Then after he has stabled out you can determine if you need to change food, or if he never stables out it could be the food.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

Thanks Sam!!
This too shall pass this too shall pass......


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

Roscoe used to have a lot of yucky poops.

He started on Orijen Puppy, we figured out he was allergic to chicken, so we switched to Orijen 6 Fish. His poops improved but they were still kind of greasy - figured the fish might be too rich. He is now on Orijen Regional Red, which is comprised of mainly boar, pork, bison, and lamb, but also has some salmon and whitefish for coat health.

Maybe Harry has some sensitivity to the types of protein in his diet, and if you changed them up his poop would improve?

You can also add some canned pumpkin to his meals. It will probably stain his muzzle a bit, but his poops will likely improve!


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

django has always had a sensative belly. he eats lamb and rice small bites by california natural. it's especially blended for sensative bellies. no grians,etc. he's doing great on it.


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## galaxie (Dec 1, 2009)

littlebuddy said:


> django has always had a sensative belly. he eats lamb and rice small bites by california natural. it's especially blended for sensative bellies. no grians,etc. he's doing great on it.


No grains except for the rice! LOL 
Maddie eats the chicken version!


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Bentley had chronic diarrhea as a pup that was exasperating !!!! After much trial and error, when we switched to a grain-free diet, removed the chicken to white fish and salmon, plus a high-quality probiotic, we now have nice firm stools. I am so glad those days are over and I feel for anyone going through it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

They are all so different! Kodi doesn't have a problem with anything (including any grains) but beef. Any beef at ALL, and he's got really loose stools. He can't even have a bully stick or flossie.


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