# HEATH VERY ILL



## Amy R.

Hello Forum Friends--some of you may remember me. I was once very active, but haven't posted in years. Busy life with family and 2 happy Havs--Biscuit, 8, & Heath, 6. And 2 grandchildren. 

Our darling Heath , a vivacious, athletic, affectionate, energetic dog, has been very sick for 2 wks with a mystery ailment. 
This began with mild occasional vomiting for a week, but otherwise normal behavior. 
But progressed the 2nd wk rapidly to weakness, not keeping anything down, weight loss,
and overnite Heath's becoming a shadow of himself. . Shocking and heart- breaking.

Saw an excellent vet who gave every possible test. All normal ! I was surprised because Heath has had 3 past bouts of pancreatitis. 
Heath went in for several infusions of fluids, and was put on antibiotics, anti- 
nausea drug, appetite stimulant, etc. He has kept food and water down for a 
for almost a week, yet isn't really improving. In fact, our gut is he's 
dying. We are seeing a second excellent vet tomorrow for another opinion, at the first vet's insistence. She is baffled and upset.

If you have any idea what this might be, we'd so appreciate your input.
We are demoralized and depressed. Thanks---amy


----------



## Molly120213

I hope they can figure this out quickly. Healing thoughts and prayers for Heath.


----------



## Tom King

What was/is he eating?


----------



## Tom King

With three boughts of pancreatitis, was he checked for diabetes?


----------



## Amy R.

Thank you, Molly, for well wishes.
Hi Tom! Thanks for your responses. 
Tom, both he and Biscuit eat Iams low residue intestinal kibble with fresh organic chicken. 
That's it. Both have sensitive systems. 
Good question about diabetes! Vet said all his bloodwork was normal. She did say his blood was " thick.". No idea what that means.
But I'll explore further today with new vet. 
Strangely, he has eaten fairly well for a week now. And had several infusions. But is not improving. He also hasn't pooped in a week! 
We call him Heath the Happie Hippie, he's such a free- spirited personality, and this is heart- breaking to watch. 
I'll let you know what 2 nd vet says today. THANK YOU.


----------



## Tom King

Hasn't pooped in a week sounds like a blockage. So sorry for his trouble.


----------



## davetgabby

hope you can find out what's going on. Hugs,


----------



## whimsy

has x-rays been taken?? If he hasn't pooped in a week that is a concern. Hope the second vet can get to the bottom of this. Please keep us posted. I feel so bad for you and your baby.


----------



## Amy R.

Yes, Heath did have complete xray studies and they were looked at by two radiologists.
No evidence of any blockage.


----------



## Amy R.

Thanks, everyone. It's comforting to see some of your familiar names & faces.


----------



## Cbelknap

I am sorry to hear about Heath. It is so stressful when your doggie is sick.

Just a thought... has he been tested for Toxoplasmosis?

I might be way off track but some of what you mentioned sounds familiar to me. 

Several months ago, Max wasn't feeling well. He began vomiting, had diarrhea and was overall lethargic. I took him to the vet who performed several tests and thought he had some type of bacterial infection. We were given several meds and sent home. I was concerned something might be stuck in his stomach but the vet said his stomach seemed okay and Max tested negative for pancreatitis. 

After two days, Max wasn't any better. The vomiting and diarrhea had stopped, but he wasn't pooping like normal. 

After about a week, Max still wasn't any better. Still wasn't walking unless coerced, and wasn't pooping or peeing like normal. He hadn't pooped in almost a week. So back to the vet we went. After sedation, an x-ray, a thorough rectal exam and another parasite exam, the vet found a couple of tiny parasites under the microscope and diagnosed Max with Toxoplasmosis. This is a parasite that medications like Sentinel do not protect against. With the proper prescription to fight Toxoplasmosis, Max was significantly better within a few days.

I found the following information on petMD:

Toxoplasmosis infection is caused by a parasite called Toxoplasma gondii (T. gondii). Cats are recognized as the primary host, as the parasite completes its life cycle in the cat's intestinal tract, passing back into the environment through the feces. Cats are more commonly seen with clinical symptoms than dogs. Still, dogs can be made ill from this parasite, and may mimic other infections, such as canine distemper or rabies.


----------



## krandall

Another thought would be any tick borne diseases found in your area should also be ruled out.


----------



## lfung5

I am sorry to hear this. I hope you get to the bottom of this and he gets better. I too was thinking Lyme or another tick born illness. Please keep us posted. Give him a warm hug from me and my fur kids.


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

I am so sorry for little Heath. Sending positive thoughts. I wish I had some ideas.


----------



## MWilson

I am so very sorry for this. I know it is upsetting and wish you the best. Hopefully this mysterious ailment will just go away as it came on. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


----------



## Amy R.

Thanks for all these supportive responses!!!!

We have a cat & toxoplasmosis is an excellent guess. Sometimes, despite our best efforts, the dogs get into his litter & eat it. Ugh. 

We also live in an area with a lot of deer with ticks, so tick-borne disease is also a good idea to pursue. Though of course our Boyz use Advantix & do not run loose ever.

Heath looks a bit better today. Tail plume up. Trots a bit. He's finished all his meds except appetite booster. Ate a normal small meal. Fingers crossed. 
Thanks


----------



## sandypaws

So sorry to hear of your troubles. Adding my wishes for a speedy recovery for Heath. It is so hard to watch them suffer. Hope the answer and treatment will come soon. Stay strong. We're all thinking of both of you.


----------



## Zoe093014

So sorry about Heath. I hope you can get to the bottom of this and I agree with ruling out a tick borne illness and toxoplasmosis. I am wondering why he is on a low residue feed, as that may also contribute to the lack of poop. I hope Heath can get back to his normal happy self soon!


----------



## Amy R.

What lovely messages, thank you!
Saw Vet # 2 and she had nothing to add. Thought Tahoe Vet #1 had been very thorough.

Is testing Heath for heart worm, Lyme disease, fecal studies etc. Said she had never seen toxoplasmosis in a dog & that it's hard to detect. But I insisted she pursue. 
Will get results Tues. Both Vets felt it's time for Heath to see an Internist next wk for more sophisticated studies if he doesn't improve...

Meanwhile , he's had a promising day. 2 meals, short walk, a normal poop.
Hoping it's a trend. 
Thank you! amy


----------



## Amy R.

Also, no diabetes, Tom. Blood sugar normal.


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Hope that is a good sign for your boy and he is on the mend. So scary when you can't get answers. Lets hope the worst is over.


----------



## Heather's

So very sorry to hear Heath is feeling badly. I have never heard of "thick" blood. It sounds like they ruled out an intestinal blockage. Did they check his kidney function? Will be thinking of you and Heath.


----------



## krandall

Amy R. said:


> What lovely messages, thank you!
> Saw Vet # 2 and she had nothing to add. Thought Tahoe Vet #1 had been very thorough.
> 
> Is testing Heath for heart worm, Lyme disease, fecal studies etc. Said she had never seen toxoplasmosis in a dog & that it's hard to detect. But I insisted she pursue.
> Will get results Tues. Both Vets felt it's time for Heath to see an Internist next wk for more sophisticated studies if he doesn't improve...
> 
> Meanwhile , he's had a promising day. 2 meals, short walk, a normal poop.
> Hoping it's a trend.
> Thank you! amy


The next thing I was going to suggest was to take him to a board certified internist.


----------



## Heather's

Just noticed we live in the same area. Sending a PM.


----------



## littlebuddy

Has he been checked for Addisons?


----------



## Amy R.

Hmmm Addison's. I will ask.
Last night Biscuit threw-up his entire dinner & hadn't wanted breakfast. 
A whole new curve. 
Maybe a coincidence, because Heath has been sick for 2 wks.
Or not. I'm traumatized at this point.
Am wondering--had just gotten a new supply of their kibble Iams intestinal before this started. Will call the vet from whom I purchased ; could it be poisoning them? .....oy vey.:frusty:


----------



## littlebuddy

I hope it is not addison but based on my experience, it's one of the hardest things to diagnose, symptoms are all over the place. i believe it's a simple blood test. Look into it just to rule it out.


----------



## SJ1998

Amy R. said:


> Hmmm Addison's. I will ask.
> Last night Biscuit threw-up his entire dinner & hadn't wanted breakfast.
> A whole new curve.
> Maybe a coincidence, because Heath has been sick for 2 wks.
> Or not. I'm traumatized at this point.
> Am wondering--had just gotten a new supply of their kibble Iams intestinal before this started. Will call the vet from whom I purchased ; could it be poisoning them? .....oy vey.:frusty:


http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/iams-veterinary-formulas-intestinal-dry/

I dont see any recalls on this list but it is always possible. I hope your guys get better soon.

Can you take them to UC Davis?


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Oh Amy, I am so sorry for what you are going through. Just asking, is this how Heath's illness started? I mean the same thing Biscuit is going through right now. That would be a strange coincidence if that is the case.


----------



## NickieTwo

Did both of the vets recommend that he stay on his same food and same feeding schedule? Usually they don't, but perhaps with the special kibble they think that is best. You might ask the next time you talk to the vet. Also, if they want him fed his special IAMs kibble during this illness, you might ask about breaking it down into smaller feedings &/or pulverizing it a bit.
Do hope they quickly diagnose the problem and that Heath is shortly back to good health.


----------



## littlebuddy

Any news on your puppy?


----------



## Amy R.

Hello Hav Team,eace:

Heath continues slowly to improve, eating well & re- gaining weight, yet seems like a different, diminished dog. Follows us around & looks at us. Sad & perplexing. . Spoke with a third fine vet today. All 3 vets recommend seeing one of two excellent internists here for a consult and Ultasound, so we are doing that Wed.

Lyme disease, heart worm, etc all negative, & awaiting Toxoplasmosis. All vets want him to stay on same diet & confirmed no problems with that kibble. 
I need to ask about Addison's. 

All for now. Thanks for listening , your support, & ideas!!! :biggrin1:

Biscuit seems ok, if lethargic. Watching him too.


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Hey Amy, thanks for posting, been thinking of you today. Just wondering if you mentioned Biscuit to the vets in case it is part of the puzzle. Glad you have several vets working on this and an internist sounds like a very good idea. Let us know, hugs to you all.


----------



## Amy R.

Hello again, I apologize for not acknowledging you individually who respond . Of course,I remember many of you!! 

Heath not well again. Back-sliding. Bad diarrhea last night. No appetite tonite. Looks miserable. Lethargic. Heart- breaking! 

Tomorrow DH takes him to Internist & will definitely pursue Addison's. The symptoms are remarkably similar. Will update you. Many thanks!!


----------



## littlebuddy

If it's Addisons, speaking from experience, once you start treatment, it's amazing the how dogs bounce back immediately. Stay positive. Keep us posted.


----------



## Molly120213

I sure hope they figure this out so poor Heath can be on the road to recovery. Molly and I send our prayers and Havanese kisses for Heath to Get Well Soon!


----------



## Zoe093014

The same from us also! XOXOXO's!


----------



## StarrLhasa

I'm so sorry to learn that both Heath and Biscuit have been ill and that the Vets have not been able to give you a clear diagnosis. When will the Toxoplasmosis results be back?

As so many little dogs besides yours have come down with Pancreatitis, I thought I should learn more about it. I found a very informative article at this website: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2103&aid=335

The comment about Heath's blood being thick and both of them having had Pancreatitis made me wonder about long term, chronic Pancreatitis and if this might be what's going on with both of them.

Also, the food they are eating is low-residue, but is it also low fat?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pancreatitis (Inflammation) in Dogs
Veterinary & Aquatic Services Department, Drs. Foster & Smith

The pancreas is a V-shaped organ located behind the stomach and the first section of the small intestine, the duodenum. It has two main functions: it aids in metabolism of sugar in the body through the production of insulin, and is necessary for the digestion of nutrients by producing pancreatic enzymes. These enzymes help the body promote the digestion and absorption of nutrients from food. Acute pancreatitis is a sudden onset of pancreatic inflammation. Chronic pancreatitis can also occur.
What are the causes of pancreatitis?

Multiple factors can contribute to the development of pancreatitis in dogs:

Certain medications, especially potassium bromide, as well as some anti-cancer drugs and some antibiotics
Metabolic disorders including hyperlipidemia (high amounts of lipid in the blood) and hypercalcemia (high amounts of calcium in the blood)
Hormonal diseases such as Cushings disease (hyperadrenocorticism), hypothyroidism, and diabetes mellitus
Obese and overweight dogs appear to be more at risk
Genetics may play a role, with Schnauzers and Yorkshire terriers appearing to be more prone to pancreatitis
Nutrition: Dogs with diets high in fat, dogs who have recently gotten into the trash or have been fed table scraps, or dogs who 'steal' or are fed greasy 'people food' seem to have a higher incidence of the disease
Abdominal surgery, trauma to the abdomen (e.g., hit by a car), shock, or other conditions that could affect blood flow to the pancreas
Previous pancreatitis
What are the symptoms of pancreatitis?

Symptoms of acute pancreatitis may range from mild to very severe. The symptoms are similar to those of other diseases and may include a very painful abdomen, abdominal distention, lack of appetite, depression, dehydration, a 'hunched up' posture, vomiting, and perhaps diarrhea. Fever often accompanies these symptoms.

Animals with more severe disease can develop heart arrhythmias, sepsis (body-wide infection), difficulty breathing, and a life-threatening condition called disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC), which results in multiple hemorrhages. If the inflammation is severe, organs surrounding the pancreas could be 'autodigested' by pancreatic enzymes released from the damaged pancreas and become permanently damaged.

Dogs with chronic pancreatitis may show signs similar to those in acute pancreatitis, but they are often milder, and severe complications are less likely.

How is pancreatitis diagnosed?

To diagnose pancreatitis, other causes of the symptoms must be ruled out. A complete history is taken and a thorough physical exam, a complete blood count, chemistry panel and urinalysis are performed. Blood levels of two pancreatic enzymes, amylase and lipase, may be obtained. The cPLI (canine pancreatic lipase immunoreactivity) test is another diagnostic tool. In addition, radiography (x-rays) and ultrasound can also help in making the diagnosis. A biopsy can result in a conclusive diagnosis, but is not commonly performed.

How is pancreatitis treated?

The goals of treatment are to:

Correct dehydration
Provide pain relief
Control vomiting
Provide nutritional support
Prevent complications
Dehydration and electrolyte imbalances are common in dogs with acute pancreatitis, so supplemental fluids are given either by the subcutaneous or intravenous route; depending upon the severity of the condition.

Dogs who are experiencing pain can be treated with pain relievers such as meperidine or butorphanol.

Medications are often given to decrease the amount of vomiting. If vomiting is severe, food, water, and oral medications are withheld for at least 24 hours. Depending upon the dog's response, food intake can be started again after a day or more. The dog is generally fed small meals of a bland, easily digestible, high-carbohydrate, low-fat food. In some cases, it may be necessary to use tube feeding to provide proper nutrition.

If the pancreatitis was caused by a medication, the medication should be stopped. If it was caused by a toxin, infection, or other condition, the appropriate therapy for the underlying condition should be started.

In rare instances where there are intestinal complications or the development of a pancreatic abscess, surgery may be necessary.

What is the prognosis for dogs with pancreatitis?

Pancreatitis can be a very unpredictable disease. In most cases, if the pancreatitis was mild and the pet only had one episode, chances of recovery are good and keeping the dog on a low-fat diet may be all that is necessary to prevent recurrence or complications. In other cases, what appears to be a mild case may progress, or may be treated successfully only to have recurrences, sometimes severe.

Some animals develop chronic pancreatitis, which can lead to diabetes mellitus and/or pancreatic insufficiency, also called 'maldigestion syndrome.' In pancreatic insufficiency, the nutrients in food are passed out in the feces undigested. A dog with this disease often has a ravenous appetite, diarrhea, and weight loss. Even though he is eating, he could literally starve to death. Treatment for pancreatic insufficiency is lifelong and expensive, but is possible. The dog's digestive enzymes are replaced through a product processed from pancreases of hogs and cattle which contain large quantities of the digestive enzymes. A change in diet with added nutritional supplements may also be necessary.

Summary

Acute pancreatitis can be a life-threatening condition, and early recognition and treatment can improve chances of recovery. In dogs, fever, lack of appetite, depression and vomiting are the most common signs. Treatment is based on correcting the dehydration and maintaining proper fluid and electrolyte balances, controlling other symptoms and providing nutritional support.

References and Further Reading
Hess, RS; Kass, PH; Shofer, FS; Van Winkle, TJ; Washabau, RJ. Evaluation of risk factors for fatal acute pancreatitis in dogs. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association. 1999;214(1):46-51.

Lem, KY; Fosgate, GT; Norby, B; Steiner, JM. Associations between dietary factors and pancreatitis in dogs. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association. 2008;223(9):1425-1431.

Stewart, AF. Pancreatitis in dogs and cats: Cause, pathogenesis, diagnosis and treatment. The Compendium on Continuing Education for the Practicing Veterinarian. 1994;16(11):1423-1431.

Williams, DA; Steiner, JM. Canine exocrine pancreatic disease. In Ettinger, SJ; Feldman EC (eds.): Textbook of Veterinary Internal Medicine. W.B. Saunders Co. Philadelphia, PA; 2009;1482-1487.


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Amy so sorry to hear about Heath's set back. Will be thinking of you and hoping the internist can give you positive answers. Hugs.


----------



## littlebuddy

Any news on your furbaby?


----------



## Amy R.

HELLO HAV TEAM eace:

Yesterday Heath had a 3 hr exam with Board Certified Internist. Excellent reputation.
*Everything was negative/normal:* he had another blood panel, urinalysis, Addison's, 
Ultrasound. Complete physical exam.

She called this AM & is *utterly stumped. :frusty: * 3 Vets & a specialist have NO 
DX. She said to watch & wait. Next step would be to see a neurologist.

My children & grandchildren arrive tomoro & I'm so sorry I don't have time to answer your lovely posts & PM's individually. I love you good people!!

I will update after kids' visit & 2 weddings OR if something new occurs. 
Thanks a million for your support and suggestions!!!! xoxox amy


----------



## Amy R.

PS~~one more oddity. He doesn't bark anymore, can't jump up on sofa, and has an odd swinging gait. His rear end swings back & forth. And he arches his back. 
Yet Internist said she palpated NO areas of pain or discomfort.
SO weird.


----------



## davetgabby

hugs.


----------



## Sheri

Will be watching for an update when your busy time is past.


----------



## Sassy's Mom

Sending hugs and prayers.


----------



## Dive Girl

Sending prayers to you and Biscuit. Keep us posted, thinking of you...


----------



## Dive Girl

Continuing prayers for Heath, keep us posted


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Thinking of you Amy.


----------



## whimsy

Yes,,next step would be to see a neurologist. 
I feel so bad for you! Must be so frustrating not knowing what is wrong. We are all hoping for the best outcome for your little one!


----------



## lfung5

This is heartbreaking. I hope they can figure this out and cure him soon. Please give him a huge hug from me.


----------



## SJ1998

Wonder if its a nerve issue, ruptured disk or something like that. The nerves can impact colon etc which could explain the digestive issues. Maybe also see orthopedic specialist?

My lab has episodes of back problems (he is older) and the first bad episode we thought he was in real trouble, possibly dying. He wouldnt move etc. and his demeanor was very down. He wasnt obviously "stiff" however and I couldnt tell where the pain was. I never suspected back pain. Our conventional vet found the problem. He's had a couple of minor episodes since but now we are a lot more aware and limit his activity if we suspect his back is bothering him.


----------



## Amy R.

HAPPY REPORT!!!
Hello again, wonderfully supportive HAV team! eace: Thank you for all your suggestions and prayers. The news is good, though still no DX. Heath was at a low ebb a week ago. 
Could barely walk, had to be lifted onto sofa and upstairs, back arched, yelping in pain. Tho he was eating, drinking, pooping. And overall so weak! Obviously suffering. Dead eyes. We thought he was dying and we'd have to put him down.

DH took him to another specialist and also back to the first specialist. They thoroughly 
examined his spine, pushing hard on each vertebrae. No yelping. All his vitals strong. Total mystery!

So the original internist decided to give him an anti- inflammatory for a week. Our groomer had suggested that. And MIRACLE. It totally turned him around. He's 85% back! Going on walks! Smiling, barking, not suffering. Not as agile and strong but SO much better. YAY!!!!!

So perhaps an orthopedic issue. It will be interesting to see what happens when he goes off this medicine. I'm happy to share this good news with you guys!! 
 thank you again! amy


----------



## davetgabby

sounds encouraging , hopefully you'll get to the bottom of this.


----------



## Zoe093014

I'm very happy that Heath-y feels better!


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA

I'm so happy for you! Let's pray the good news continues!


----------



## Heather's

So good to hear the Heath is feeling better!


----------



## Amy R.

Thank you!  We are very hopeful!


----------



## Ditto's Mom

Great news! Sending positive thoughts to your darling Heath and puppy kisses from my boys.:hug:


----------



## whimsy

That is such good news!!! I'm sure you are just so relieved!! Hope he continues to improve! Thanks for that wonderful update!


----------



## lfung5

Happy to hear the good news!!


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Oh Amy that is wonderful, hopeful news. I hope this is the final leg of the rollercoaster and he keeps improving. Keep us posted and in the meantime sending positive thoughts your way.


----------



## krandall

Glad to hear he has improved so much. Fingers and toes crossed that it continues!!!


----------



## SJ1998

Super news! 

If the anti-inflam is too strong over time perhaps you could talk to the vet about the herbs that worked for lfung's dog. I'm going to try those the next time my lab has an episode. He's been okay with dasquin and omega 3 but next time he has a flare up where he doesnt want to move etc. I'm going to try those and compare to the muscle relaxer and pain pills from conventional vet.


----------



## Sassy's Mom

Glad to hear he's getting better. Sending more prayers and hugs.


----------



## azcolaw

This is the first time I've seen your thread and, as I read it, Heath's situation reminded me a lot of Ginny (my 3 year old Hav) last month. 
She got very sick out of the blue. Lethargic, throwing up. Took her to the vet that day who gave her something for the nausea and x-rayed to make sure there was no blockage. 
I took her home, but she kept throwing up and was not pooping (but not eating either). 
She stayed at an emergency clinic all weekend where they put her on IV fluids and did another x-ray series, to double check for blockage. She also had an abdominal ultrasound. 
Her eyes looked "dead" as you said about Heath. She seemed to barely recognize us. She hardly moved and just stared straight down. 
The vet thought it was probably either pancreatitis, non typical Addison's disease or an autoimmune disorder, but no definitive diagnosis was ever given.
They finally gave her steroids for a week and she popped right out of it.
Back to her old self 100%. The only remaining evidence is the fur hasn't grown where her leg was shaved for the IV. 
Glad Heath is better!!!!!


----------



## Amy R.

ROLLERCOASTER 
We are back at Tahoe where this all began 4 th of July Wkend. And it's déjà vu all over again. Heath is terrible. Messing all over the house from both ends. Worst news is last night he had 2 seizures in bed with my husband. I just arrived today. 

He's drinking but won't eat. He had been doing SO much better--like 80% himself--on the anti inflammatory. Tho we felt he'd plateaued & sensed there was still something underlying . Because his legs weren't strong. 

I'm beyond demoralized & crying. Will see if we can take him to neurologist in Reno tomorrow. 
Thanks for listening & stayed tuned. 
? amy


----------



## Hsusa

I'm so sorry. I've been following this thread. Prayers for your little guy.


----------



## davetgabby

feel so bad for you . Hugs


----------



## krandall

I'm SO sorry to hear this! Hugs to you AND Heath.


----------



## Zoe093014

prayers from us also


----------



## Molly120213

So sorry to hear Heath is doing poorly again. Was interesting to see you say deja vu and back where this all started in Tahoe. Could he be exposed to something there that is different from your home? I was thinking pesticide or toxic plant thay he may have eaten. I hope the docs can figure this out. Prayers for Heath!


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA

Sending prayers your way.


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Gosh Amy, I am so so sorry to hear this. I would be crying also as it is truly a horrible rollercoaster. I hope the reno vet can help. Just wondered if Heath was still on the anti inflammitories when this happened.


----------



## Amy R.

Thanks so much, lovely Forum Friends!
TODAY'S UPDATE

I'm honestly traumatized forever. 
Warning: graphic content

Last night Heath vomited large amount of bloody material in dog bed. next to us. I then made a comfortable bed for him on bathroom floor & sat with him for hours. Thinking he would expire. ( there's no emergency night vet near here) At 5 AM he was barking & scratching to go out--as if nothing untoward happened!!!

Today he ate and drank normally. But also had a dramatic 1 minute seizure as we sat on sofa. 
DH taking him to good vet up here today to discuss options. And tomoro will take him to VCA in Roseville for MRI. We think he has a brain tumor at this point. Devastating. 

Thanks again for your support, ideas, and prayers. amy ?


----------



## Heather's

I am so sorry to hear about Heath. Your little guy will be in my thoughts. Hugs to you and Heath.


----------



## lfung5

I'm sorry to hear this! I did not read through entire thread but could this be caused by a vaccine or heart worm or tick treatments??

I hope you get to the bottom of this.


----------



## lfung5

I noticed he had this happen July 4th weekend and today is Aug 4th. That's why I am thinking flea/tick or heartwork meds. What are you giving him for that?


----------



## lfung5

Also what anti inflammatory drug is he taking. Fred was in deramxx and it caused him to get an ulcer and pancreatitis. He was throwing up blood along with bloody diarrhea


----------



## Sheri

Amy, I can imagine your fear. Please keep us posted, I'll be checking often, as I am sure many of us are.


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

In my thoughts Amy. Sending you all positive ones.


----------



## Zoe093014

Amy,
Just an FYI, I had a male Kuvasz, who weighed 90+ lbs.,that was super sensitive to pain meds for his spinal problem. It was a while ago and it was a normal pain med for dogs at that time (can't remember exactly which one). After just the second pill, he had hemorrhaged all over the house. I had to replace a large section of carpet and the drapes. He needed immediate blood transfusions and lots of oral meds afterwards, but he did survive.
Hope they can figure out what's going on with Heath ASAP! My heart goes out to both of you.


----------



## Sassy's Mom

Heath get well really soon. Sending prayers.


----------



## plattinum68

Amy, I'm so sorry to read what you and Heath have been going through. This must be so hard. Sending hugs and prayers that Heath pulls through. We're crying with you. :hug:


----------



## MarinaGirl

Thinking of Heath and hoping for a good diagnosis that he can recover from. :sorry:


----------



## Amy R.

eace: hello again--so nice to hear from all of you with prayers, empathy, & suggestions.
Lots of old friends ( Linda, Sally ) and new!

The last 24 hrs have been calm and Heath stable. Eating, drinking, and no more bad events. Loving him lots & he's comfortable. We all got to sleep last night. DH has chronic leukemia so I don't want him compromised either. Made him play golf today. 

Lots of good ideas here, thank you! But they have all been ruled out. Consensus among 4 vets is a brain tumor. Tomoro DH taking him to Rohnert Park for an all - day complete 
neurological workup, CT &/ or MRI etc. Hopefully we'll get some answers! Tahoe vet said many brain tumors in dogs this age are fixable. Outside brain & easy to scoop out. 

We are not optimistic at this point and are coming to terms with a bad outcome. And above all, won't let Heath suffer. But hoping to be proven wrong! 

Will update you soon. Cheers! amy


----------



## Amy R.

PS. I'm trying to figure out how to upload a more current pic of Biscuit and Heath for you all to see from my iPhone or iPad. To change my avatar pic. But can't figure it out. 

It's funny, the boys were lying very closeon the bed side- by-side, all stretched out. Mimicking each other's pose. As if trying to comfort and connect. Biscuit is a very empathetic HAV, very soulful, and is sad seeing us distressed & Heath diminished.


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Aww, Biscuit you are a good brother. Amy if it turns out to be a tumor I will be the optimistist for you and say it will be operable. I understand your need to be realistic after what you have been through. You are very strong and I commend you for handling things the way you have. I will think about you constantly until next post. Hugs.


----------



## Zoe093014

Thanks for the update, Amy. Continued thoughts and prayers for you and Heath and your family.


----------



## Molly120213

Praying for a good outcome for Heath!


----------



## Sheri

I hope you can figure out how to post a new photo. 

I'll tell you how I do it: Below this box are two options, "Post Quick Reply" and "Go Advanced." Click on Go Advanced. You'll be taken to a page that looks a little different, but still has the comment box. Scroll down to "Additional Options," then "Manage Attachments." Click on that and you'll get some option for attaching/inserting a photo. I have a Mac laptop and use the "Upload File from your computer" one. 

I hope it works, because I'd love to see what your boys look like now.


----------



## lfung5

I am praying for you and your family. I have a brain tumor that I have been living with for over 32 years. It is true that it might just be a simple scoop! I hope so Please keep us posted.


----------



## Heather's

Thinking of you and Heath today.


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA

Amy, how hard this must be for you. More prayers and good thoughts sent your way. Please keep us updated on Heath.


----------



## Amy R.

*HEATH HAS A DIAGNOSIS*

Heath had a complete neurological exam today, including MRI & spinal tap. The result for the MRI is in, and we'll receive result of spinal tap tomorrow.

It's a bit of a curveball. Were expecting a tumor but this is as bad, or worse: a brain disease called GME, and Heath's is the worst form, disseminated. http://healthypets.mercola.com/site.../08/03/granulomatous-meningoencephalitis.aspx

The above link explains it better than I could. Who knew? We have never even heard of this. The median survival after DX is 8 days. It's like taking a bullet.

The neurologist insisted they keep him overnite so he can recover from the spinal tap. But also cautioned he might not survive the night! She thought him that fragile. I said my goodbyes this AM but expected to see him again. He even played ball last night!
I'm distraught. Will see how this plays out tomorrow.

Sorry, no happy ending for our carefree innocent little guy. But at least now you all know aout this illness and its possible link to vaccines!

Thanks for your empathy, support, & ideas. xox amy


----------



## Heather's

Oh Amy I am so terribly sad to hear about Heath's diagnosis. I have never heard of GME and the possible link to vaccines. It is just heartbreaking. You and Heath will be in my thoughts and prayers tonight. Hugs...


----------



## Amy R.

Thanks, Heather. . Crying my eyes out. He's only six.


----------



## Molly120213

Thoughts and prayers to you and your family during this difficult time of saying goodbye to your special boy. Since this has been going on for over a month it sounds like he has been putting up quite the brave fight to stay with all of you. I wish him peace and no pain.


----------



## davetgabby

Big Hugs


----------



## MarinaGirl

I'm so sorry to hear about Heath's diagnosis; what a brave dog and a fighter. I read the article you posted and learned so much. You've educated all of us about GME and I thank you for your generosity during these difficult times. Please know I'm thinking of you and praying for a peaceful outcome. Much love.


----------



## Sheri

I am so very sorry. It does sound like Heath has been fighting hard to stay with you and be his happy self.

My heart aches for you. Hugs.

P.S. Yes, I immediately read the article, too. I become more and more convinced about avoiding most immunizations for these guys, and believe that Tucker's IBD/immune system troubles originate from them, too.


----------



## Heather's

Thinking of you and Heath this morning... Hugs.


----------



## krandall

I'm SO sorry! Do they think they might be able to get it under control with a course of strong steroids?


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA

Oh my, I hate hearing news like this. More prayers and a big virtual hug going your way.


----------



## Sheri

How is Heath this morning?


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Amy, absolutely gutted for you, Heath and your family. Shocked to read the article, I have never heard of this. I am crying with you and sending you hugs.


----------



## Zoe093014

How is Heath today? I am so sorry about all that you and Heath are going through but you are doing everything you can for him. I hope the meds are keeping him comfortable.


----------



## Amy R.

*SMALL REPRIEVE ?*

First of all, thank you all for these beautiful messages. I cherish each and every one. So heartfelt! 

Heath quite surprisingly came through the night with flying colors. And was barking and they even walked him. The neurologist was so surprised and heartened by his demeanor. Had expected to euthanize him today but instead sent him home with Prednisone and good wishes. So DH will bring him back to Tahoe Sunday, god willing.

My expectations are low...his brain and spine are packed with this stuff. The normal marker is 0--3 and his are in the hundreds! They are still examining the spinal fluid, to refine the DX. But I'm SO grateful today for a small reprieve and some precious time with Heath.

Sorry this is like a carnival ride. I won't post again til there's a change in status. A million thanks. eace: amy


----------



## krandall

We're here for you. You can post ANY time you want... even if it's to tell us he wagged his tail for you! :grouphug:


----------



## lfung5

Amy,
I am so sorry to hear about the diagnosis. My eyes are filled with tears. We are all here for you. Please give Health one hug hug from all of us.

I watch the video. I appreciate you posting it for others to learn from. Can I ask if heath had any of the vaccines Dr Becker mentioned?

Xoxo. Hold him tight.


----------



## Laurief

Amy, I was just told of your and Health's situation. My heart is breaking for you. Please know that you are such a wonderful Havie Mommy. You have been to he** and back with him , and yet you still have a good attitude and hope for the best. No one knows what will happen with him in the end, but you need to know that you are the most fantastic Pup Mommy and Daddy! Not many would go to the lengths that you guys have for their baby! He is so so lucky to have you as parents!!
I pray that Heath comes through with flying colors, and if not, you need to know that you did the best that you could and that he will always love you!!


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Glad Heath is having a good day and you can have that time with him. He is a brave little fighter and you and your husband are doing everything you can possibly do. I hope the meds continue to help and we will all wait for any post you want to send. We are here to listen Amy anytime you need to talk. Hugs to you all.


----------



## plattinum68

Amy that is a devastating Dx and I am so sorry you and Heath are going through this. So glad he had a reprieve and hopefully you can bring him home tomorrow. I had never heard of this disease before and thoroughly read the article you attached. I've not had Nena get her rabies vaccine yet and now I'm not sure I will. Heath has the best Hav Parents for you to go to such great lengths for him. Bless you both and DH too!! Oh, and please post anytime you want.


----------



## krandall

plattinum68 said:


> Amy that is a devastating Dx and I am so sorry you and Heath are going through this. So glad he had a reprieve and hopefully you can bring him home tomorrow. I had never heard of this disease before and thoroughly read the article you attached. I've not had Nena get her rabies vaccine yet and now I'm not sure I will. Heath has the best Hav Parents for you to go to such great lengths for him. Bless you both and DH too!! Oh, and please post anytime you want.


While you want to be very careful about over vaccinating, do remember that Rabies is a terrible disease with 100% mortality. On too of the disease itself, your dog doesn't have to bite some one... All that needs to happen is someone SAYING your dog bit them, and unless they have been vaccinated as required by law in your state, they will most likely be taken from you and euthanized so that their brain can be tested for Rabies. (The only 100% accurate method of diagnosing Rabies) So think long and hard before deciding to go against the law and not vaccinate for Rabies.

The safest thing, in my opinion, with a vaccine sensitive breed like Havanese is to follow Jean Dodd's protocol.


----------



## Zoe093014

Amy, if you get a chance to post, I was wondering how Heath is doing today? 

Just want to add that although Zoe is tiny and has been diagnosed with liver disease, she did fine with her rabies shot. 

Continued well wishes for Heath and my best to you and your family,

XOXOXO's

Linda and Zoe


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA

krandall said:


> your dog doesn't have to bite some one... All that needs to happen is someone SAYING your dog bit them, and unless they have been vaccinated as required by law in your state, they will most likely be taken from you and euthanized so that their brain can be tested for Rabies. (The only 100% accurate method of diagnosing Rabies) So think long and hard before deciding to go against the law and not vaccinate for Rabies.


I was going to say the same thing. I was considering omitting the rabies vaccine when my corgi was struggling with degenerative myelopathy, but after someone pointed out that if she nipped someone, she would be taken from me and placed in quarantine. With her being in a cart and partially paralyzed that would have been devastating. I would hate to have a pet taken from me because of a lack of being inoculated against rabies.


----------



## Amy R.

*SUNDAY*

Hi, was just checking in and reading these incredibly moving messages. I think everyone on this Forum would go to the lengths we have for Heath, but appreciate the compliment. It's important to us to leave no stone unturned. 
This small dog has modeled total devotion to us. Imagine, we've learned so much from a 12 lb dog! He embodies pure love.

Heath on way to Tahoe with DH. I haven't seen him since Thurs. He's stable but honestly just hanging in there. . Will assess his quality of life this week and go from there. It's highly unlikely he'll recover and we can't bear to watch him suffer.

Regarding vaccines: I wouldn't skip a rabies shot either! But after several years of these immunizations, I'm not sure all of these vaccines need to be repeated ad infinitum. They contain mercury and other stuff , which in a few dogs may trigger an auto- immune response, which may not even be apparent. Heath had 3 vaccines in May at once, and I'm very suspicious of the timing. Many other potential causes of his GME , like toxoplasmosis or tick-
borne disease, have been ruled- out. So learn as much as you can about
mitigating the risks of vaccines. I wish I had. 
amy


----------



## Sheri

I hope you all have a good week together, Amy. Wishing you lots of snuggles all around.


----------



## Molly120213

Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## jabojenny

Wishing you all the best of thoughts during this unfair time. I do want to thank you for bringing GME up and giving me an opportunity to learn something I might not have normally. I'm so sorry to hear something like this has to happen to one of our pups to put the warning signs up for the rest of us but, if is helps spare any others from going through this, Heath and yourself, have given us a gift. I titer my pups but PA requires rabies so I think I need to follow through with this on them. Please everyone make sure if you follow through with rabies vaccines that they are MERCURY FREE and three year, I know they have this available!


----------



## plattinum68

krandall said:


> While you want to be very careful about over vaccinating, do remember that Rabies is a terrible disease with 100% mortality. On too of the disease itself, your dog doesn't have to bite some one... All that needs to happen is someone SAYING your dog bit them, and unless they have been vaccinated as required by law in your state, they will most likely be taken from you and euthanized so that their brain can be tested for Rabies. (The only 100% accurate method of diagnosing Rabies) So think long and hard before deciding to go against the law and not vaccinate for Rabies.
> 
> The safest thing, in my opinion, with a vaccine sensitive breed like Havanese is to follow Jean Dodd's protocol.


Karen, and everyone else posting about rabies thank you for your advice. I did go read Jean Dodd's protocol and agree with what is said. I've bookmarked her page for future reference. I would not want Nena taken from me. Will request the TF-3 vaccine. Amy, didn't mean to hijack your thread. Hugs to you and Heath and hope for a good week.


----------



## Amy R.

*COMEBACK KID*

:whoo:After a really bad few days post spinal tap, In which he was like a rag doll, Heath has turned around. The Prednisone is kicking in & subduing the inflammation. 
He's about 90% Heath, with all his old endearing behaviors: wagging tail, open mouth smile, jumping up, asking for belly rubs. And correct posture, head up, tail up, ears lifting when we talk to him! Obviously he feels much better! Haven't seen this in weeks!
. This is SOOOO crazy! We can't believe it-- it's like seeing a ghost, a good ghost! Of course the Prednisone has increased his appetite for food & water.

Can't foresee the future, but this gives us some hope. Last night I had a double martini. Not much of a drinker, either. But needed to both decompress and celebrate. This has been INTENSE.

Poor Heath looks like someone went berserk with a razor, or a crazy circus dog--shaved in big swaths for procedure. Wish I could post a pic but only have iPhone & iPad here.

Thank you again for your supportive messages. They've meant the world. Will update in a week! hugs, amy & sweet Heath


----------



## Zoe093014

I am so happy for Heath and for you!!! eace:
Yay!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Fantastic Amy. That little man is an amazing little fighter. Glad he is acting like his old self. What an unbelievable journey you have all been on. Keep having those martinis you have earned them. Continued positive thoughts, crossed fingers and big hugs. Keep posting.


----------



## Amy R.

I want to add, that if you ever see signs of neurological issues in your dog, like weak legs, strange side ways gait, head turning, personality diminished, that persist---find a board certified neurologist ASAP. Wish we'd done this 2 wks ago. 

Unfortunately, it's very expensive. Our bill was 4 K plus all the previous tests were 2.5 K. 
This is a serious issue to consider when getting a dog. I recommend pet health insurance, which unfortunately we don't have. But of course, we would do whatever it takes.


----------



## davetgabby

hoping for the best , Hav a drink for the rest of us.


----------



## Amy R.

Thanks Zoe & Ollie's Mom & Dave! I'm going to endeavor to thank y'all now!!


----------



## HavGracie

That's great news! I've been following your story and am hoping for the best for you and Heath! You've made my day:whoo:


----------



## Molly120213

What a roller coaster ride you all have been on! This is great news for you all and we will keep up our prayers for Heath.


----------



## NickieTwo

That's good news! It will take a while for him to get well, but it sounds like his chances are good. He also had that spinal tap last week and those, while needed for diagnoses, can be tough. At least they are for people - both the hospital out patient and we after returning home did everything right with my daughter, but she still ended up with a super intense headache and a patch. Luckily Heath did fine with the tap - that shows he's a fighter and will hopefully recover fully.


----------



## plattinum68

Yea Amy such great news. I so hope Heath keeps going in this positive direction.


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Amy you don't owe us any thanks, we are all animal lovers that can easily empathize with your situation and therefore feel your pain, anxiety and stress with everything you are going through. We thank you for being so open and honest in your fight as you have educated all of us by allowing us into your life struggle with little Heath. Keep fighting and keep posting, we are with you.


----------



## Heather's

So happy to hear the good news about Heath!!! He's a little fighter and so lucky to have wonderful parents! This news has brightened the day. Hoping Heath continues to make complete recovery!


----------



## Ditto's Mom

Amy- What a wonderful news! I am so thrilled for Heath and for you and DH. MY boys send many puppy kisses to your precious little guy.


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA

I'm doing a happy dance! Such good news. Warms my heart! I'm so thrilled to hear this about Heath!


----------



## FancyNancy

I too have been following Heaths progress and am so happy to hear of his improvement! YAY Heath! YAY Amy! YAY Neurologists! Happy Day!


----------



## Sassy's Mom

Thank goodness Heath is doing better. I hope things keep going in the positive direction.


----------



## Dee Dee

just reading Heath's story and my heart broke for you. But was so happy to get to the end and read he is improving! Having had tons of health issues with my dogs the last 30 years (not Havanese) I can empathize with the fear and heartbreak. Will be keeping Heath in my prayers and hope he makes a full recovery!


----------



## SJ1998

Amy R. said:


> H
> 
> Regarding vaccines: I wouldn't skip a rabies shot either! But after several years of these immunizations, I'm not sure all of these vaccines need to be repeated ad infinitum. They contain mercury and other stuff , which in a few dogs may trigger an auto- immune response, which may not even be apparent. Heath had 3 vaccines in May at once, and I'm very suspicious of the timing. Many other potential causes of his GME , like toxoplasmosis or tick-
> borne disease, have been ruled- out. So learn as much as you can about
> mitigating the risks of vaccines. I wish I had.
> amy


I assume you can get an exemption for Heath's rabies in the future? Even if you couldnt I wouldnt give him another rabies shot.

Glad you found out what was wrong and that he is doing better! Thanks for sharing all of this with us on the forum.


----------



## Sheri

Amy, is there even a remote chance that Heath could improve, damage could be lessened, and he could survive this?

I am hoping and we are crossing fingers and paws for Heath.


----------



## NickieTwo

Continued good thoughts for Heath. So glad he is getting better!


----------



## Amy R.

*Sunday Update*

Hello HAV lovers!

Heath has had a great week. He's his exuberant self, if a bit revved up from the high dose of Prednisone he's on.

DH took him for follow-up to neurologist & she was floored by his progress. (Since she'd predicted Aug 6 he might not live thru night after MRI & spinal tap!) DH put Heath thru his trick & command paces to show her his personality & brain are intact, despite terrible CNS ( central nervous system) inflammation, seizures, hemorrhaging etc. More tests of his spinal fluid revealed no discernible agent causing his
disseminated GME. Still a mystery and we're left with etiology as "occult" or " auto-immune."

She decided to keep him on high dose Prednisone longer, til end of next week,
since he's responding so well. The hope is to beat this inflammation back!
The prognosis is officially poor, because most dogs relapse once weaned off the steroids, but, still, I now have some HOPE. At the very least, we are all
enjoying a lovely time with Heath. And I will gladly and gratefully settle for
that!

Enjoy your Sunday & thanks for your caring posts! amy


----------



## Molly120213

What a gift that you are having this precious time with Heath when you thought all hope was lost. We will continue to pray that he can beat this thing and have continued good days and health.


----------



## Zoe093014

Oh, Amy, that's wonderful! Believe in miracles!!! This is Heath's way of showing how much he loves you and appreciates all you have done for him.


----------



## Heather's

So happy to hear that Heath is doing so well! Praying that your little guy makes a complete recovery!


----------



## Ollie"s Mom

Amy, I am so excited for your family. What a wonderful week you have had. Continued positive thoughts being sent your way. Keep up the good work little man. Hugs to you all.


----------



## Sheri

What a wonderful report about Heath's great week! I love it when the doctors are baffled! :biggrin1: 

I hope he continues to baffle them!


----------



## plattinum68

Amy, so glad you had a great week with Heath. Praying for a good longterm outcome. Thank you for the update.


----------



## krandall

I'm so glad to hear that Heath has improved on steroids. I will be crossing all fingers and toes that Heath continues to do well!


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA

Oh that's wonderful news! What a will to live. Still sending prayers our way and hope Heath beats this and comes out strong and fit.


----------



## davetgabby

great stuff , keep us posted


----------



## Sheri

How is Heath doing?


----------



## Heather's

I have also wonder how Heath is?


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA

I've been wondering too. I'm a little worried as we haven't seen any responses.


----------

