# General Question



## Jammies (Apr 4, 2009)

*This is a question for the breeders. If you were selling a puppy that was 8 weeks old and found out it had a bad heart murmer and the buyer decided they didn't want the puppy, what would you do with the puppy?

I ask the question because of Jammies. When she was 8 weeks old, we found out that she had heart problems, but I was so in love with her already, that I still wanted her. The breeder said we did not have to take her and did not charge us for her. I am very good friends with the breeder.

We are taking Jammies back to Ohio State University next month to have her rechecked. I am praying for an improvement with her status!! Her heart sounds better to me as far as rythm goes, but I'm not a cardiologist. Please, please keep Jammies in your prayers. She is my velcro dog and the love of my life (don't tell dh). I will keep you posted, and I sure am praying for good news. She is the sweetest little thing...well, when she isn't pestering our sheltie!:laugh:*


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

Hiya GF,

Jammies is so sweet and she has been in my prayers all along. I miss you and Jammies so much and Murphy can't wait til he sees his baby sister again! He wants to play RLH!!!

Love ya bunches,

Holly & Murphy Moe


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

I would keep the puppy forever- or until a perfect family came along-
This is what happened with my Mouse. I believe there is a 'perfect' dog out there for everyone-


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

High again Debbie, hope Jammies is improving. Keep us posted.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

My prayers go out for your sweet little Jammies. I hope you get great news.


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## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

I am thinking of little Jammies!

Hope it goes well.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I know you said the post was for breeders to answer, but I just had to add my thoughts for your Jammies to have a good check up next month.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I've been praying for Jammies from the start and will continue to do so. Actually, I'm praying for a miracle and a wonderful prognosis. Let us know.


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

Your breeder did the right thing. Thank you for giving her the love that she deserves. We (breeders) appreciate when a person can open their heart to a dog that has a health problem. I'm sure it is hard for you especially when it is time for checkups. Try to remember that 90% of heart murmurs will stay the same grade as when they are diagnosed. I will keep her in my thoughts and prayers.


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

I hope Jammies recheck goes well. When my Papillon was a puppy he was diagnosed with a heart murmur & it eventually went away.


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## Janizona (Oct 17, 2006)

It depends on what a "bad heart murmur" means. Generally they come with a grade. Grade 1 or 2 usually doesn't affect the life of the puppy. A higher grade such as a 3 or 4 could possibly be corrected with surgery. 

If it was my puppy I would keep it and have the surgery done or if it was a mild murmur I would wait until the pup was older to see if it got better.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Ditto to what Janet said. However, I might have done what your breeder did as well. (You didn't say the grade of the murmur.) I've given away three puppies for various reasons. Sometimes that's just the best home for that puppy, and it sounds like it is for Jammies too.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Is it a murmur, though, or something else? Doesn't Debbie just call it "heart problems" and then mentions the rhythm sounding better to her...


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Sheri, her second sentence is


> If you were selling a puppy that was 8 weeks old and found out it had a bad heart murmer and the buyer decided they didn't want the puppy, what would you do with the puppy?


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## Jammies (Apr 4, 2009)

*Jammies heart murmer is a grade 5/6  For those of you who don't know...6 is the highest grade. Her diagnosis is Tetralogy of Fallot. She has 4 things wrong with her heart, but I am praying for a miracle. She is unable to be spayed because of the danger of anesthesia.

The reason I asked the question to the breeders is that we had our sheltie to the dermatologist right before we got Jammies and we were telling her about Jammies and I was quite upset with her comment. She said, "why would you take that puppy when there are so many healthy puppies out there". I said, "because I am in love with her". She said "most breeders" would just have her put down". I just can't imagine a good breeder doing that! *


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Now I understand why you were asking. To be honest, I'd have considered euthanizing her. It would have been discovered before she was 8 weeks old if it was congenital (and I'm assuming it is). Unless I had a family that had already fallen in love with her and was willing to take her, I would have definitely considered euthanasia, as horrible as that may sound. I have had to make that decision once (a puppy injured during whelping) and it isn't easy, but sometimes you have to do it. There are already so many dogs that need adopting that I would have a hard time with that decision.


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

As long as she is able to live a life, I would not euthanize. But, I would not perform any extrodinary measures either. Every life is precious and as long as the puppy was in no pain, he/she deserves the chance to experience life and be loved. With that being said, there are times where the dog is in distress and pain. That is when you have to let go. Jammies will most likely live a shorter life than most but at least she has you to go through it with. Just like Betzie had Megan. You two are kindred hearts and I appreciate what you are doing!


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

I would never euthanize unless there was no chance for quality of life.
I think every dog deserves a chance, even if it's a short chance.
I am so happy Jammies is with you, and she is so very loved!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

You and Jammies are blessed to have each other! I wouldn't have been able to walk away if I'd already met the puppy and fallen in love. You're wonderful to give her a loving home for as long as she's on this earth.


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## Murphy's Mom (Oct 25, 2007)

I think Jammies is one sweet and very lucky puppy. You are a hero in my book! 
Becki


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## Jammies (Apr 4, 2009)

*Thank you all for your kind remarks about me. I don't feel like a hero, just someone who is totally in love with her dog. I will be an absolute MESS when I lose her, but, I am hoping that is years away. I know I am probably not being realistic. I'm hoping to know more after Jammies sees the cardiologist. I knew when I took her that she wouldn't have a long life, but I never expected to get this attached to her! I just pray, pray, pray for her!*


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Debbie, Jammies is definitely fortunate to have you in her life.

By the way, to add to my last reply, I did have a puppy born that many people suggested I have euthanized and I did not. It just didn't seem right for him. I knew he had a calling. Anyway, thanks to a few of the forum members, we found the most perfect home for him and he's thriving and living some three large dogs and thinks he can get around just the same as them. His owner sends me photos and updates regularly. He is being trained to be a therapy dog and his owner intends to teach him Freestyle dancing, despite the fact that he has a physical deformity. Like Jammies, he is very loved!


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

*My baby sister!*

Debbie is an absolutely wonderful person and so full of love for her little Jammies that she is an inspiration to me! Murphy is Jammies' big brother and Debbie and I have become very close friends due to our little fur babies.

I can tell you that Jammies couldn't have found a better home or a more loving mamma than Debbie. Jammies has been loved from the start and her health problems make her even more special and beloved!

We love you Debbie and Jammies!

Holly & Murphy Moe


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## Chere (May 22, 2009)

Prayers for Jammies; I have used OSU in the past and they are the best so she will get an excellent diagnosis and care. You love her and she loves you so enjoy and make the very most of whatever time the two of you have together. You will never regret taking her and she will teach you so much about life and love. 

No matter what age our dogs, it is likely that they will become ill and that we will outlive them; a relationship with a beloved dog is such a gift, even if time limited.

And, who knows, Jammies may have a long time with you. Blessings on both of you.


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## leena365 (Sep 17, 2009)

Jammies is in our thoughts and prayers. Best of luck for a positive outcome.

Leena


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

Years ago, we sold a Collie puppy that, unknown to us (he'd been to our vet and the University vet clinic for eye checks - where they go over them pretty thoroughly) had PDA. We took the puppy back and refunded their money plus vet expenses they had spent. Way back then, the surgery for this was soooo expensive and less than 50% effective, and our vet assured us he would just keel over dead without pain within 6 months. He lived for over 1 1/2 years but did, just keel over dead. I think we did the right thing


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Our precious pets give so much to our lives. I thank every day that Dexter is in my life at this time.

It is very hard not to fall in love with our precious little ones.


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## Jammies (Apr 4, 2009)

*Sorry that I haven't updated for awhile. We decided against going to the cardiologist at this time. DH and I discussed it, and when we first took her there, they said there was nothing they could do, so why drive 4 hours each way just to hear them say that again. We did take her to our local vet who has all of the reports on her, and while this is not his specialty, I basically wanted to know if her lungs were clear or they were starting to have fluid in them, indicating that things were getting worse and she was starting congestive heart failure. He said that her heart sounded the same and her lungs are CLEAR! That made me very happy! Maybe we didn't make the right decision in taking her back to OSU, but as my DH said, perhaps they are using Jammies as a guinea pig, maybe to check prognosis, etc. at a very high expense. Believe me, I would spend all the money I had if I thought there was a cure out there for my baby, but since being told there isn't, for right now, I want to go to our local vet every 6 months unless I see a change in her behavior. So far, she still pesters the heck out of our sheltie, plays RLH everyday, with no signs of any tiredness. When she is outside playing frisbee or chasing our sheltie, I do limit her time of running. I especially did this in the summer. 
Were we wrong not to drive 4 hours to Ohio State Univ. just to hear them say again that there is nothing they can do? I am at peace with it, as of now!
She is so funny, if I am outside and go into the garage, she puts her head back and howls! She sure is my velcro dog. I have never loved a dog this much and I tell her about it every day! I also pray for her everyday and pray that she is my miracle dog!:angel:
Thanks for letting me ramble!*


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

Jammies is a sweet little girl and she IS your miracle dog. I pray for little Jammies and you because I don't want your heart broken. She is an amazing little girl and plays as hard as Murphy!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I'm glad for you and Jammies that her vet check went so well, (no worsening!) She is such a dear for you, and I'm sure you are her Dear, too! 

I would have done the same thing in postponing the cardiologist visit unless it is needed down the road. Nothing they tell you could improve her condition, which is stable at this time, and why spend the money or put her through the stress of a vet visit like that, when it wouldn't change anything.

Thanks for letting us know how she's doing!


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Thank you so much for the update on this thread. If there is nothing to do with Jammie's condition, I would not be driving the 4 hours either.

You are wise to have your local vet let you know updates on CHF. Let nature take it"s course and in the meantime, enjoy and love Jammie and keep her happy and comfortable.

You are a wonderful Momma and Jammie is so blessed you have come into her life.


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## casperkeep (May 16, 2007)

Debbie
I kow exactly what you are going through. I always know that we know what is best for our little angels. I know my husband and I made the right decision with Betzie. We could have done test after test on her but we felt that to us she was not going to be there guniea pig. I know they need to learn and take the info to help others we just didnt want that for her. The morning I took her in to be released of her suffering we looked at each others eyes and she was telling me thank you...I really feel that way. She lived a year and a half but it was the best year in a half for her. She lived life to the fullest. It really helps to have the support from your family and friends as well as my vet. I had the best support system there for me....Her Auntie Laurie came all the way from New Jersey to be with her. I pray that Jammies will heart will allow her to do all the fun things in life. Please know that I am here if you need someone to talk to. Hugs to you and Jammies!!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Debbie-I think following your heart is the best thing you can do for Jammies! Seems as though you're both blessed to have each other.

Big hugs to you and Jammies from us!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Debbie, thank you for the update on how your little Jammies is doing! I'd been wondering about her condition and couldn't remember exactly what it was. I think you did what felt right at the time, so there you go. We do our best by these little guys and hope and prayer will help deal with any issues should they arise. She is being followed closely by your vet so I wouldn't worry. ((hugs))


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