# I saw my first shavanese in person!



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I just saw my first short haired hav in person at the pet store. What a cutie! Now I really know WHAT Todd looks like Eva. This little 7 month girl even had the same coloring as Todd. I am embarrassed to say I had to ask what kind of dog it was... and of course once I knew I held her and let her lick me... and now my eyes are itchy.. so they are more allergenic than the long hairs. But all this made me wonder where this comes from in their history? they really do look like a different breed. Does anyone know why this happens or what gene pool they revert back to? Just curious. But WOW! if I weren't allergic... IWASHHP!


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## sweater32 (Dec 12, 2008)

Missy I found this on one of the web sites.

*Examples of Short Coat Havanese (Shavanese)*​*Havanese with a recessive coat. The short hair Havanese, a Registered purebred dog. *
*Some Havanese carry a short haired recessive gene. If two Adults with this recessive gene have a litter of puppies, it is possible that some of the puppies will be born with smooth coats. A Havanese with a short coat cannot be shown and is a disqualification in the show arena, meaning it would not be allowed to participate in a dog show, however it is not a medical factor and in no way affects the dog itself. A short coated Havanese looks very different when full grown than a long coated Havanese. Some have nicknamed the Havanese born with short coats Shavanese. Around 1980, several German breeders started finding odd-coated puppies in litters with regular Havanese. As these pups matured they did not grow full coats like their other littermates. They had feathering on the skirts, tail, legs, chest, and ears - the rest of the body hair was close lying. They oddly enough grew up to have smooth coats. Breeders got together and found that this was happening in other litters of Havanese and was not a chance genetic mutation in one single litter, but something carried in a lot of Havanese as a recessive gene. These dogs were called Smooth-Coated Havanese, but have picked up the name Shavanese somewhere along the line. The short coated Havanese are not showable or breedable, however they are perfectly healthy.*​







​*A Neutered Havanese, with short hair recessive gene. These dogs shed and are not hyper-allergenic. *​
















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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Missy said:


> Does anyone know why this happens or what gene pool they revert back to? Just curious.


Missy-How fun! But was it being sold at the petstore? I would be curious to know the answer to that too. I have never heard of a smooth coated maltese or bichon puppy being born so it is interesting to see where they come from.


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

With German Shepherds you can get long coats...instead of the standard shorter stock coat most people are used to.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Karla- I recently saw a long haired GSD come in for testing for search and rescue. Someone there asked if it was a mix, the dog looked very different all together but he said she was imported from Europe.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

No not being sold Amanda... (I try not to support pet stores that sell animals).....just shopping with her owners. She was really cute.


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

Amanda, we had 4 litters of GSD's and in every one we had at least 1 or 2 long coats. I think they are so pretty...
Let's see, here are two puppies from our dogs...one is a long coat (Johann), and the last picture is a standard stock coat (Jericho).


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Missy- sorry my mind just went to oh my they are exploiting the rare short hairs now!

Karla- They are striking but then again I tend to be drawn to long coated breeds. The one I saw I would say was 75% black with a little tan so hence we all just assumed she was a mixed breed.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

And isn't it interesting that apparently whatever recessive gene gives it the short coat also cancels the non-shedding, not-so-allergenic aspect of the Havanese breed? So, it would imply that somehow they are linked in that gene...you'd think it would just be a different gene altogether, wouldn't you?

Hmmm...this could twist my mind to think on, so I'm just going to go back to the quiz I'm studying for...


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Karla,
I love the look of the longer haired GSDs.

But, obviously, I guess, I LOVE long hair! Ha!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

what ever gene it is also seems to cancel the gene that makes them change color too... 

Maybe some breeders could weigh in here... I know it is not a desirable trait to breed but I do find it fascinating... I think there are short hair bolonka's too...didn't we have a member with a short hair hav and a short hair balonka...I am remembering the dogs name violet...what happened to her?


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

Ha ha ha Sheri...

I actually love the long coats too...some day when I get another shepherd I want a long coat...although my husband doesn't like them as much. He thinks they look like a collie. @@ men!


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

I'm so jealous Missy! I've never seen another Hav (shorthair or otherwise) in person before.
There's a man that comes into the petstore that I shop at that has two Hav's but I've yet to meet him. 
Todd is way less allergenic than the dogs that I foster have been.
Did she smell like a dog too or did she just make you itchy?
Maybe it varies or you're just more allergic than I am? 
It would be awesome to meet another short hair owner and compare notes 
I love the look of the long hair GSD...sooo pretty! 
I know that Shih Tzu's carry the recessive short hair gene also. 
Some purebred labs also carry a gene that causes then to have white in their coats. 
Google has taught me so much..lol


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Eva,
Didn't you get Todd from a breeder? How come you didn't see her dogs?


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Sheri said:


> Eva,
> Didn't you get Todd from a breeder? How come you didn't see her dogs?


 I've seen pictures of them...
We would set up a time for me to visit and something kept "coming up" and she'd postpone which should have been a red flag but I didn't realize it at the time. 
I met her at a garage sale that she was helping out with to pick Todd up. 
At the time it was convenient for both of us but looking back I would have preferred going to her home and meeting the rest of the dogs.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Ah, I see. Funny how sometimes we don't see things the way we might with a bit more experience.

He's such a cute little guy...! 

Does he have any trouble with all the fosters that come and go? I mean, get nervous that he might be the next?


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Sheri said:


> Ah, I see. Funny how sometimes we don't see things the way we might with a bit more experience.
> 
> He's such a cute little guy...!
> 
> *Does he have any trouble with all the fosters that come and go? I mean, get nervous that he might be the next*?


Lol..I hope not!! 
He is sad for a day or two after they leave and sleeps quite a bit but then he's back to himself again.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I've just wondered...you folks that foster are great. Lots of love and patience to do this, over and over.


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

Sheri said:


> I've just wondered...you folks that foster are great. Lots of love and patience to do this, over and over.


Lots of carpet cleaning too...it seems like that is one trait that all of my fosters share..they aren't potty trained until right before they leave me. 
It has it's challenges but it's SO rewarding.
I love my fosters.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Eva, I am way more allergic than most people! I am even allergic to poodles...But not to my Havaneezers...(or anyone else's I have met...long hair that is) When I discovered that I could tolerate them I became a kid in a candy store. I have to be more careful about bathing them and vacuuming during my worst times of the year... but I roll in these guys and the only time I get at all bothered and it's not bad is when I brush them.


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## Orange (May 11, 2009)

I was at a friend's yesterday, here in Norway, and she's got a 6 weeks old litter, two females and one male. While cuddling with them, we realized that one of the females had less hair in her face than the others, and slightly less on the lower part of her feet. We were like; this has got to be a short-hair! It will be exciting to see how she looks in a couple of weeks. My friend was very disappointed, because the female that we suspect is a short-hair is the one she actually was going to keep for herself, so that was a real bummer. She wants a bitch she can show and breed from. So that was sad. But they do fascinate me - I've never seen one in real life before either, so to see one as a puppy and be there when we discovered that it might be a short-hair was kind of exciting.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

There's a genetic test for it now from Vetgen. It's been available for about a year and a half. It's actually a gene that controls head furnishings, that controls the rest of the coat. The gene is called "f" for the shorthair, and "F" for the drop coat. When you see a dog listed as FF, it means it's not a carrier. Ff is a carrier. ff is affected.

Evidently there is a lot of it in Havanese. The original dogs had a LARGE genetic diversity, so there's no telling where it came from, since there is no DNA on the original dogs. Some breeders that ended up finding their line pretty heavily invested in carriers have produced very few. 

We have not found it in our line. Outside studs have it that we have bred to, but it never made it into our line. We didn't repeat the breedings for other reasons, so that cut down the possiblility of it coming into our line.

Other breeds have it to, but it's not mentioned in their standards. There is a lot of confusion about what needs to be, and what is not required in Standards.


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