# Not feeding out of bowl? Along with other Q's



## letter4tony (Jan 30, 2009)

Still really new here, but I've been preparing myself for our new puppy in the coming weeks. GF and I agreed that I will probably be doing the majority of the training so I have my newfound bible at dogstardaily.com. I just found this place last night and I love it. I've done a ton of research before stumbling here but this relaly just all sums it up in one awesome read.

Puppy will be 8 weeks when we get him and at that point the article(s) stress on several factors.

1. To get him to become a chew-a-holic but only on food-stuffed chew toys.

2. To get him to meet 100 people in the 8-12 week period

3. In 1-hour intervals you tell him to potty on command, you play with him/train after he eliminates. Then crate him for the remainer of the next hour, to leave him with the chew toy in his den and ignore him to reinforce anti seperation anxiety.

Here's my question. The articles pushes for not feeding the dog out of the bowl until he fulfills his socialization skills (not being protective and not growling and associating dinner time as a fun time). So in the beginning, the article states to feed throughout the course fo the day by stuffing his hallow chew toys so he and we (as owners) can accomplish 3 things.

1. Keep him busy

2. Teach him that chewing his chew toys, and only his chew toys results in positive reinforcement (the food/treats)

3. And to feed him (?)

I was planning on getting Puppy on raw as soon as we brought him home (on June 19th!) (NV Raw).

If he's eating throughout the course of the day, then what does he eat at dinner? Maybe this is where my lack of expeirence plays in, but I'm assuming these hallow chew toys must be VERY hard to excavate food from, either that or they don't hold much food at all to begin with.

Does anyone go this route? Or do they just feed out of the bowl to begin with? I definitely don't want him being protective when it comes to him taking stuff and guarding. I do know the trade trick that many people use and it's probably unavoidable for things like tissues and my socks, but I defintey don't want him to growl when it comes to removing his bowl.

One of the things I want to push for is when I start feeding him his bowl, I add one nugget of NV and put it down, and he'll be confused, he'll eat it, and I can remove his bowl, and put another one in, there fore he can associate that taking the bowl away from him doens't always mean he won't get it back - therefore not being protective and growl during meal time.

Comments? Should I go with the article and not feed bowl - going the toy route? Or can I do both? Put very little food/treats in his toys, and feed at dinner time raw and do my training then as well. Sorry for this really long post.


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

I haven't seen that article, but I haven't found a chew toy that will hold raw NV. I need to find something that I can put in little pieces of jerky or maybe some raw goat cheese. She's a chow hound, but loses interest quickly even in a food-stuffed toy if she sees I'm about to leave the room, but maybe that will change. I've been feeding NV also (I've had my puppy home 5 days and I'm still figuring out what works and what doesn't), but I have just been smushing it on a stainless steel plate with some enzyme/probiotic (because I realized a bowl made her get more of it all over her muzzle) and feeding her in the crate to get her used to the crate. What my breeder told me is that you can drop very special treats into their food dish while they are eating to show them that hands coming toward the food bowl mean something good. I don't think you'll find he'll be confused by the NV - he will probably gobble it like it's his last meal and take as few gulps as possible (the reason I think a digestive enzyme is a good idea). Violet had been on puppy kibble, and right now it seems like she'll eat anything. It's only been a few days, but I had no trouble with the transition to NV. The only difference is her stools are a little smaller and softer, which is less convenient for picking up. She's 12 weeks, and right now she wants to put EVERYTHING in her mouth - mulch, rocks, my sleeves, her leash... I am too overwhelmed with potty training and sleeping at night right now to start on the drop it or leave it command, but that's next. She seems to understand that she can't mouth skin too hard when playing.


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## letter4tony (Jan 30, 2009)

I didn't clarify, if I went the toy route, it'd be treats and kibble. Not NV. Sorry.

Diane, looks liek Violet is doing very well!

Another clarification, they don't really call it an article. It's like a textbook


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I don't see anything wrong with using a bowl as long as you train your dog to allow you to put your hand in it, take food out, put food in, etc. My dogs are not protective of their bowl/food AT ALL. The reason they aren't is that every week or so with my younger pup and every month or so with my older one (as he's used to this already) I put my hand in their bowl and I add some YUMMY treats to their food as they're eating. I usually put in some boiled chicken or cheese. When they were very young, I would do this every single day. Pretty soon they realized that a hand near the bowl meant more yummy things coming! Once I knew that my hand could go in there with no problem, I started putting my hand in there with nothing in it. I would alternate between putting nothing in it and putting something good there. Then I started taking kibble AWAY, again alternating between nothing, adding and taking away. This I did over and over again until I knew they had it down pat. I still do it every once in a while as I've read studies that dogs can BECOME food protective later so I don't want to have that happen either. Also, I do the same thing with their chew toys and food stuffed toys - take it away and replace with a yummy treat if they don't jump up or growl. If they do, it gets taken away for good. Additionally, periodically take it away and give it back so they don't think that every time you take something away means they won't get it back ever. Do this every day and you shouldn't have a problem with guarding - whether or not you're feeding out of a bowl.

Also, if you do want to stuff chew toys with food, you need to make sure to decrease their meal time food amount so they don't gain too much weight.

Good luck!


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## Racheval3 (Mar 13, 2009)

I assume you're getting a Havanese. My best suggestion for you is to wait and see what your puppy is like before you overwhelm yourself with various training methods. Every puppy is different and after learning about many forum member's experiences I think I can safely say that Havanese are generally well-behaved companion dogs. I rarely hear Moose growl and it's definitely not directed at people but rather his own image in the mirror. Potty training will probably be the most difficult task to overcome, but be patient. As far as feeding goes, I would wait and talk to your vet. Feeding solely through toys may not be sufficient enough for a growing puppy. Moose is always hungry and would keep eating if he always had a full bowl. When we first got him we had him on a schedule of 15 min feedings of a 1/3 cup twice a day. If he didn't finish in 15 min then I took his bowl away. It's important for them to become familiar with a routine. It will help you to predict when they need to go potty and it will help them to learn to respect you because they rely on you. If you choose to feed your puppy like I do then you probably won't ever have to take his bowl from him while he's eating. When he's eating it should be his time, no disruptions. The bowl is removed when his time is up. You will learn to do what you think is best. When Moose skips breakfast and then ignores dinner, I will leave his bowl down and let him pick. He has realized that there will be more later and there's no need to gorge. It's not typical for Havanese to be aggresive, they are small friendly dogs, so it shouldn't be difficult to take stuff away from them because they usually want to play with you, not guard from you. It's definitely important to puppy proof your house before you bring him or her home and keeping lots of chew toys around will help distract from other things that are "off-limits". Again, just be patient when you get your pup and in the meantime, don't go crazy getting prepared - wait and see first. 

Hope I was able to help! Please tell us more about your puppy - we love pics!!!


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## letter4tony (Jan 30, 2009)

Thanks for the kind responses. I'm just a neat freak when it comes to these kinds of things. It's why I am the way I am :bolt:

I'll just worry and go crazy if something were to happen, and I wasn't prepared for it. I think I already have the whole 1st month down planned already! And the second month will probably entail puppy classes lol.

I've read from several here that Havanese ccan become protective from their items, may not be particularly their food but other household items like toilet paper. I know there's a "Trade" trick taht people use and it's almost nearly unavoidable. I defintiely want to make sure he doesn't do taht with his food is all. The adding treats idea is definitely better. Thanks Lina


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

letter4tony said:


> Thanks for the kind responses. I'm just a neat freak when it comes to these kinds of things. It's why I am the way I am :bolt:
> 
> I'll just worry and go crazy if something were to happen, and I wasn't prepared for it. I think I already have the whole 1st month down planned already! And the second month will probably entail puppy classes lol.


Welcome and congratulations on your upcoming pup! I think the most important thing you can do right now - for both yourself and your pup - is to come to terms with the idea that "things happen". You can't plan for everything, you won't be prepared for everything, and THAT'S OKAY! I think we often read so much we get way ahead of ourselves (and the puppy!) It sounds like you've gotten some great information from various sources and you'll figure out what works best for you and your puppy but there will be things that no matter how prepared you are just don't go the way you expected. Relax, have patience and most importantly---ENJOY!


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

Jill is describing me to a T, I did all that extreme preparation and most of it is not going like I planned! :doh: 

Some things are actually going better than expected. Some things I thought I would do aren't working, and I'm finding I'm having to figure this out as I go. It's only been 5 days but it's amazing how fast they learn, and most of the mishaps have probably been from me confusing her. It's impossible to totally prepare, and I forgot half of it anyway from sleep deprivation.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Hi Tony and welcome! We love photos so please post some as soon as you can!

I'm a planner too, bringing puppies into our house sure threw me for a loop! They don't necessarily stick to our schedule at first! :laugh: Some days I felt like I was going crazy because I wasn't getting anything done, the house was mess, the dog was having accidents and I wasn't getting enough sleep. Move forward a month or so and it all changes. Even though you've planned for everything try to be flexible, as long as you feed and love your puppy everything will be fine! Don't overwhelm yourself with the details!

Remember...hoto:


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## letter4tony (Jan 30, 2009)

One of my main goals is the seperation anxiety. I feel it's very easy to get the puppy attached to you (and it should!). Puppy needs to just understand that he needs to be confident in himself when being alone.

One of my MAIN goals. 

We're visiting the breeder on Memorial Day weekend, the 23rd to be exact - at which point we'll take a million pictures!! He will be 6 weeks old then 

Here's a picture for now. We're getting him from Marian at Happyhavs farm


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

He's adorable!!! What's his name???

Lots of people on here can give you advice on how to work with the puppy to avoid separation anxiety. I think we did it wrong with Scooter but Murphy didn't mind when we left too much because they were together. 

He's so cute you aren't going to wan to leave him anyway!


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## Jammies (Apr 4, 2009)

*HE IS ADORABLE! What is his name???*


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Love the colors! Love the eyebrows! Can't wait to see how the colors change. He's beautiful....................I wanna pup! 

Enjoy your pup, training is an on-going process. Use every opportunity to teach, keep the commands short and simple and lots of praise.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I love eyebrow babies!!! If you treat or praise the "good" and ignore the "bad" I think he will catch on pretty fast. Give him a month to settle in and adjust to his new family as you love him and potty train - then the fun training should go well. If it doesn't, I will let you know my address so you can ship him to me.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

I give up, I give up, I give up.
Ok, who knows how to do a search for a thread on finding a breeder?
Since you're looking at many years of taking care of the puppy you get I'm trying to watch out for you, not being mean and please take it that way.
We all know you don't take a hav puppy at 8 weeks, we all know you look at the health testing of the parents, and oh the heck with it. Someone please find him that thread. *Please?*


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

Is this the thread you were looking for?

How to Find a Good Breeder?
http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=790&highlight=breeder


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

*This Looks Like the LinK!*

http://www.happyhavsfarm.com/index.html


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Thanks for both of the links.


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## letter4tony (Jan 30, 2009)

rdanielle said:


> Is this the thread you were looking for?
> 
> How to Find a Good Breeder?
> http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=790&highlight=breeder


The links in that thread doesn't work

Jas can you elaborate? Are you saying you have critical information I do not know of yet?


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## karin117 (Mar 29, 2008)

Hi
I had no problem with the link...try it again!

Finding a companion for life demands for some reserge...if you want the perfect match...The price you pay for a well breed puppie from a breeder you can trust and rely on...and have a relationship with for questions and issues, are often NO different to the price you pay for a "puppie breed without thoughts".

Many breeders spend their life thinking, breathing, caring, loving, evalutate their dog...A combination are thought about for years...The want THE BEST for the breed, for there future breeding work...and for familiys looking for a companion dog...

The differens between a "nonthinking" breeder, and a reputable often WHO they sell to...not the price of the dog. They have the best, and want the best for their offspring...They CARE about their "babies" and want them to have a good life...and they will be there is something happend...

The breeder should KNOW their lines, wath is in them...good and bad...
You want a HAVANESE, well then it is important that the parents are confirmed to be close to the breeding standard...You want your dog to live a happy long and healthy life...well make sure that the parents (and the LINE) is a healthy one.
A dog with a bad health can cost, very, very much money...AND HEARTHACE!

Give yourself the BEST oportunity to have a good new life companion...I PROMISS you that is the right path to go.


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## letter4tony (Jan 30, 2009)

So are you guys trying to tell me happyhavsfarm isn't a reputable breeder?

In a link for reputable breeders around NYC, she was one of them that was mentioned - So i'm still trying to comprehend what you guys are trying to tell me, just tell me straight out!!!! :rant: lol.

Marian over at havsfarm has been the most helpful of all the people i've tried getting in contact with. She doesn't get many litters a year so I was lucky to get in on one of them. There's also a waiting list for her next litter. She has beautiful puppies and is always there to pick up the phone when I call her with a "hello tony!" I email her asking her for anything (ie. pictures etc) and she'll respond within that same day to provide it. I'm very happy with her.

Welcomes me to visit whenever I want (which i am!), answers all my questions, the parents are cerfed, her litters are akc registered - pups recieve their first shots, I follow them up with the second, she makes sure I am taking them to the vet within 72 hours of getting them - limited registration. The one I'm getting it from will be CKC registered because her mom is CKC registered but the male is AKC registered. She's a very sweet lady and I'm very comfortable dealing with her. All her other dogs are AKC registered and pedigrees would be provided as well 

Edit: Here's a picture I had requested for hte picture lovers as of yesterday!


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## karin117 (Mar 29, 2008)

Hi
I can not say anything about your puppies breeder....I am talking in general.

For me health is #1, and a good way to prevent health problems is health test..to make sure that the parents do not carry on some genetic inherrited problem they can pas on the the puppies...

And as I said...You want a Havanese that look like a Havanese...Then some kind of confirmation of the parents are necissary.

I am glad that you think that you have found your match for a breeder and that you feel confortable...


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

I do have to chime in and say that I think more than 1-2 litters a year is not necessarily a reason to run. My breeder had 3 litters at the time I got Violet, but she and her daughter both show and breed, one was her daughter's litter, and she would "babysit" occasionally. I don't think she typically has more than one litter at a time in her home, but she had one very special female who she wanted to breed for the last time, which I think is the reason for the overlap. She works 2 days a week for a vet, and is just now retiring to be full time with the dogs. I've talked to her extensively and seen her set-up, half the house and most of the yard is devoted to the dogs, everything was immaculately clean, much attention paid to proper training and socialization of the puppies, adults well cared for and true family members, everyone was happy and well behaved, and I had no qualms at all about getting a dog from her. Of course all the appropriate health testing was done on the parents and the links to check that data was right on the website. 

Just wanted to say that more than 1-2 litters per year doesn't always mean a bad breeder. I think it really depends on the circumstances, they may just have more time for it, don't have to work, retired, husband makes enough for them to live on, etc. My advice would be check the health testing, see the puppies and all living conditions for yourself, and trust your gut.


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## Owen Lover (Mar 7, 2009)

Tony,
My husband and I got little Owen at 8 weeks old (he's 17 weeks now!) and I thought I'd throw in my own personal experience thus far as a new pup owner. I hand fed Owen every meal for the first week/week and a half, teaching him simple commands such as "sit", "down", and "come". He picked up the commands quickly and it reinforced to him that I was providing him with his meals. After a couple weeks, I just fed him one or two meals by hand, and the rest were out of his bowl. We tried to fill some of the kong toys with kibble while we were gone at work, but quite a bit of his meals were left when we got home if they were even touched at all. But it may be worth a try. A big concern of mine was aggression while he was eating at well, but Owen has shown none whatsoever. I can pet him, remove his bowl, etc. and he is very complacent. 

As for separation anxiety, I was worried about that as well. Both me and my husband work, so I was concerned about leaving a puppy home alone all day. At the time, I only worked part-time, but I think he adjusted pretty well. The couple weeks our neighbor (we live in an apartment) would comment about how much noise could come out of such a little dog. I don't think I would have classified him as having high separation anxiety, but he only put up a lot of fuss when we left until he was about 10 weeks. It got better and better after that and now he just sits there when we walk out the door and we come home with his face whiskers all smashed because he's been sleeping soundly the whole time. We just don't make a big deal about us leaving...I'd like to say goodbye to him, but it seems to work best when you're just matter of fact about it.

Hope any of this can be any help to you. So far, he's been an absolutely wonderful puppy...no complaints here!


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## letter4tony (Jan 30, 2009)

Lol, I feel like this thread turned into a debate! Not knwoing where it began but in any case, both of puppy's parents are patella and cerfed on OFFA. Being the researchign freak that I am, I tried to cover all the grounds before downing in on one particular breeder, and trust me, i went through a HANDFUL.

Owen is so cute he looks like a toy! You're very helpful in reassuring there's a light to the end of the tunnel as I'm sure our puppy is going to be very hands on and we're trying to prep any way we can. Thank you so much !


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