# U.S. Dairy Industry



## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

...Did anyone see Nightline the night before last when they did the investigative story about the U.S. Dairy Industry and it's humane treatment of their dairy cows?

I saw it and I was so sick afterwards.. it's literally got me either deciding to give up all dairy in general, or find replacements from local dairy farms where I know they treat their cows humanely.

Here's the link to the story..

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/animal-rights-us-dairy-industry/story?id=9658866

I dare you to watch it and not feel compassionate towards these animals.. it's heart wrenching to see what those farmers do..and the tail docking is what sealed it for me. These are animals that aren't slaughtered after their abuse.. they have to live a life dedicated to producing milk; which means constant impregnation then separation from their calves and most of the time, lameness after a few years from being pregnant so much and the sheer weight of the calf growing inside them.


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## dbeech (Jun 16, 2009)

Having spent most of my adult life in Minnesota,heart of the dairyland, I really feel this is anomaly in the dairy industry. From what I understand, most milk still comes from family owned or smaller dairy farms. I have very dear friends who own a dairy farm and they sell their milk primarily to Land of Lakes. Their cows only come inside for milking and to sleep. They don't dock their tails and as farmer Tom says "Happy cows make more milk." I think most dairy farmers get into it because they enjoy working with animals. You certainly don't get rich running a dairy farm.


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

I hope it's not the regular.. it said about half of the Corporate farms have been cited. I think I'm going to switch back to Horizon milk.. they're organic and their milk comes from local family farms.. either that or California cheese and milk products.. Their laws prohibit tail docking (thank goodness one state is doing something!)


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Here are a few more sites/info to look at: http://www.chooseveg.com/dairy.asp

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/dairy_and_veal.asp

www.goveg.com/factoryFarming_Cows_Dairy.asp

And this..... "An HSUS Report: The Welfare of Animals in the Meat, Egg, and Dairy Industries" http://www.hsus.org/farm/resources/research/welfare/welfare_overview.html

Now, if you want to have a look at the pork industry, the chickens, the turkeys and the fish industries, you'll find a whole bunch of stats and data about the cruelty in farming those in most U.S. and Cdn. farms. They are being factory farmed, which is the cause of all this abuse.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

http://www.hsus.org/farm/resources/research/welfare/welfare_overview.html

_"*Conclusion:*

There are no federal animal welfare laws regulating the treatment of the billions of animals raised for meat, eggs, and milk, while they're on the farm. Further, while all 50 states have cruelty statutes, most explicitly exempt common farming practices, no matter how abusive. As a result, farm animals suffer immensely as, within much of animal agribusiness, the welfare of the animals is severely compromised by customary factory farming practices, as the economic interests of the producer often conflict with-and generally take priority over-the animals' well-being."_


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I cannot watch those stories. We cannot govern all the human waste and neglect, unwanted pregnancies, much less the animals. If there is a short cut to profit the American suppliers will find it. I’m sure most other countries are similar. Until we put more value on life than we do the dollar nothing is going to change.


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## Melissa Miller (Aug 2, 2006)

I think you all should read Jane Goodalls book Harvest for Hope too. It changed the way I eat. I am trying to eat only organic now, but its tough. I need a Whole Foods. 
The GM crops are what scared the poo out of me.

Here are some links she provided:
http://www.communitygarden.org/
http://www.foodroutes.com/


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

If you haven't seen Food, Inc....rent it or download it, its a must see if you are into this type of thing. I've been into this since the e-coli outbreak way back in 92', I was sick in an earlier breakout in Texas a few years prior and I wouldn't wish that on anyone! it was AWFUL..

http://www.foodincmovie.com/

Anyhow..if you have Netflix, I think it might be an instant movie (?) Very insightful.

I only drink organic milk, any little way to eliminate eating toxic crap, I'm all about. I do think there are dairy farmers that are mindful and competent, we just have to find them and buy from them, it really boils down to us, the consumer..they (the industry) will provide what we are buying.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

CapotesMom said:


> I hope it's not the regular.. it said about half of the Corporate farms have been cited. I think I'm going to switch back to Horizon milk.. they're organic and their milk comes from local family farms.. either that or California cheese and milk products.. Their laws prohibit tail docking (thank goodness one state is doing something!)


Just what I have been thinking for the last two days, I could not abide that inhumane treatment of the cows. I used to drink Horizon products and will go back or do without. As much as I love Half and Half in my coffee, I will never be able to drink it again without knowing where it came from. Thank you for starting this tread!


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Melissa Miller said:


> I think you all should read Jane Goodalls book Harvest for Hope too. It changed the way I eat. I am trying to eat only organic now, but its tough. I need a Whole Foods.
> The GM crops are what scared the poo out of me.
> 
> Here are some links she provided:
> ...


Did you put this on the book list thread? I have not read it but will make a point to review it, thanks again!


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## suzyfrtz (Nov 12, 2007)

I tend to agree with Debbie B. I don't know where these factory dairies are located, but I haven't seen one. (Not to say they don't exist.) Don't give up drinking milk or dairy products! There are hundreds of honest, hard-working dairy farmers going broke. Think about this - cows need to be milked morning and night, 7 days a week, Christmas and New Years and Fourth of July. 

(My Dh can fill you in on milking, early morning before dawn and evening, after supper, manure-y tails flopping in his face, heavy feet stomping on his toes.) 

I have been around a few dairy farms and the cows were like pets - they have names! Well, maybe times are changing but all the dairy cows I see still have their tails. 

I would suggest to just know where your milk comes from and buy from local dairies.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

We have been eating organic/natural and bought from local farmer's markets for a while. Recently my youngest saw Food, Inc. movie at school and she said she would never look at supermarket food the same way. But I will tell you, it's very expensive to eat organic and I know a lot of people want to but can't afford it.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

juliav said:


> We have been eating organic/natural and bought from local farmer's markets for a while. Recently my youngest saw Food, Inc. movie at school and she said she would never look at supermarket food the same way. But I will tell you, it's very expensive to eat organic and I know a lot of people want to but can't afford it.


Yes, it is more expensive...which is ironic, because you aren't paying for all of those pesticides and growth hormone treatments (which are bound to cost some coin!)

But one of the premises/points of the movie, Food Inc., is that if we all start demanding this as consumers, the industry will follow...and then they will compete with prices. Organics have actually come down in price a little since I started buying it a few years ago, probably due to more suppliers competing with each other/more supply.

I'm glad I gave up eating chicken 15 years ago...I think the movie would've turned me off of chicken, that's for sure. Thank god for the pregnancy aversion that never went away, lol...blech.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Thumperlove said:


> Yes, it is more expensive...which is ironic, because you aren't paying for all of those pesticides and growth hormone treatments (which are bound to cost some coin!)
> 
> But one of the premises/points of the movie, Food Inc., is that if we all start demanding this as consumers, the industry will follow...and then they will compete with prices. Organics have actually come down in price a little since I started buying it a few years ago, probably due to more suppliers competing with each other/more supply.
> 
> I'm glad I gave up eating chicken 15 years ago...I think the movie would've turned me off of chicken, that's for sure. Thank god for the pregnancy aversion that never went away, lol...blech.


I agree about the Chicken. So many young children are eating chicken because it is supposed to be so much healthier than beef and the hormones, etc., are horrible for children and adults. You are right the demand will help, but it will take a while.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Yes, it's ironic that those who try to eat "vegetarian" sometimes include chicken, eggs, cheese and fish in their diet, yet those are the industries where you will find the most rampant abuse, suffering, medicated feed, environmental issues and disease. 

http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/animals.html


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

I'm not going to claim veganism or whaddever. I try not to eat tuna unless it's farm raised because the population is being decimated, but that's about it. The milk/dairy angered me because those animals have to live through their abuse...where as those chickens and cows that are used for meat are slaughtered sooner or later.. Granted I'm not saying that they should be abused while they're alive, but they get to die.. there's an end to their suffering. There's no end to a dairy cow's suffering on these factory farms..


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I agree with Suzy. There are a lot of GOOD dairy, beef, pork, etc., farmers out there but you will never read about them and movies will never be made of them. The media will always highlight the worst case scenario. My uncle had a pig farm in Illinois way back when and his pigs were clean, well fed, treated humanely, etc. The same with many of the dairy farms near my house. The cows are out munching in the fields and lazing in the sun. We as consumers can make informed choices. We can also do our own research to find out who and what is behind some of the programs about the cruelty and awful treatment. I do not, for one minute, deny that the stories are true in many cases but I always try to look at whose agenda is being pushed and the credentials of the person making the statements. I guess I've become quite the skeptic in my middle age.
If we are concerned about humane treatment and slaughter of the animals whose meat we eat (and we should be) we can always buy Kosher.
Edited to add that I never eat veal or lamb because of the conditions they are forced to live in, which I have seen for myself plus I cannot abide eating a baby animal.
If one chooses to be a vegetarian simply for health reasons, I applaud that, but if it is for reasons of cruetly to animals then said vegetarian shouldn't be wearing leather shoes, or leather belts, or sitting on a leather couch or having leather seats in their car.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I totally agree with Susan about the leather products. My grandson spent the summer with me and only ate veggies. At the time the garden was coming in so that is mostly what we ate also. His reasoning was because of the energy saved and inhumane treatment of animals. Course then I told him to take a trip to Iowa and see all the energy spent harvesting the corn crop and the energy spent working the garden as opposed to the calf grazing in the back 2 acres. Yes we will slaughter him to feed my childrens families including all ten grandchildren (well 9 if you don't count the vegan). He has a good life and will be humanely slaughtered this spring and be replaced with another little one. 

But, in defense of the dairy industry, can you imagine the cost to pasture the cows on a grand scale? We would not be able to buy milk because of the cost. Not everyone has access to farm raised animals or can afford the cost of organic foods. And a dairly cow comes in season after about 3 months of calving. Even the small dairys breed them at that time. As for the tail docking it is done for sanitary reasons, pigs tails are docked to keep the other pigs for biting them off--even on family farms. 

I am not condoning the food industry, just explaining. Luckily, I have my own chickens (which I do not eat) for eggs and a place to raise a calf. And of course my own vegetable garden; but don't know how long I will be able to grow my own veggies--way to hard for senior citizens.


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

Luciledodd said:


> I totally agree with Susan about the leather products. My grandson spent the summer with me and only ate veggies. At the time the garden was coming in so that is mostly what we ate also. His reasoning was because of the energy saved and inhumane treatment of animals. Course then I told him to take a trip to Iowa and see all the energy spent harvesting the corn crop and the energy spent working the garden as opposed to the calf grazing in the back 2 acres. Yes we will slaughter him to feed my childrens families including all ten grandchildren (well 9 if you don't count the vegan). He has a good life and will be humanely slaughtered this spring and be replaced with another little one.
> 
> But, in defense of the dairy industry, can you imagine the cost to pasture the cows on a grand scale? We would not be able to buy milk because of the cost. Not everyone has access to farm raised animals or can afford the cost of organic foods. And a dairly cow comes in season after about 3 months of calving. Even the small dairys breed them at that time. As for the tail docking it is done for sanitary reasons, pigs tails are docked to keep the other pigs for biting them off--even on family farms.
> 
> ...


...I don't care if it's for sanitary reasons...watch this video and tell me that that cow isn't in pain.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/watch-hidden-camera-video-tail-docking/story?id=9658808

It's like if someone took a rotary cutter to your finger without anesthesia... you have a voice.. you can tell them it hurts.. that cow couldn't..

If you're worried about cows swinging dung around because their tails catch it than either use anesthesia and meds on the cow (which automatically makes them non-organic) ...or ..hmm.. I dunno.. clean up the mess yourself. Last time I checked cows don't have opposable thumbs so they won't be doing it.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

True, Mindy but you have to ask yourself if that method is typical or atypical. If you read some of the responses to that video, many farmers decry that method of tail docking and explain the method they use which does include novacaine. One farmer likened it to the meds used by dentists when they extract teeth. Not that I am condoning the practice. Heck, use rubber bands to keep the tails out of the icky stuff. I have a high degree of skepticism because the maker of that documentary is a member of an Animal Rights Org. I understand that ABC did visit a clean, well run farm that does not use those methods but they did not air that footage. I have to ask myself, why not???


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

mckennasedona said:


> True, Mindy but you have to ask yourself if that method is typical or atypical. If you read some of the responses to that video, many farmers decry that method of tail docking and explain the method they use which does include novacaine. One farmer likened it to the meds used by dentists when they extract teeth. Not that I am condoning the practice. Heck, use rubber bands to keep the tails out of the icky stuff. I have a high degree of skepticism because the maker of that documentary is a member of an Animal Rights Org. I understand that ABC did visit a clean, well run farm that does not use those methods but they did not air that footage. I have to ask myself, why not???


probably because it counteracted the bad news..lol. And I think a rubber band after some time would be inhumane as well.. it would cut off circulation.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Wow such anger and I feel it is dirrected at me. As I said not condoning, just explaining.
Having been reared on a farm, this video doesn't look so bad to me. Have you ever seen pigs neutered? Have you ever seen your mother wring a chickens neck or just chop its head off. Like I said they cut off the pig's tails also and ring their snouts to keep them from rooting under the fences. My sons were both circumsized in the hospital as newborns. No anthesia was used and I could hear them crying. Newborn puppy's tails are docked by many the same way. 

Robin Cooke did a novel a few years back set in a meat packing house. Read it and it will turn you off hamburger forever. I don't know the answer other than not eating or drinking any animal products or not buying any leather products or other animal products made from animal skins. Personally I am not ready to do that. Sorry if you take my post personally.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Luciledodd said:


> Wow such anger and I feel it is dirrected at me. As I said not condoning, just explaining.
> Having been reared on a farm, this video doesn't look so bad to me. Have you ever seen pigs neutered? Have you ever seen your mother wring a chickens neck or just chop its head off. Like I said they cut off the pig's tails also and ring their snouts to keep them from rooting under the fences. My sons were both circumsized in the hospital as newborns. No anthesia was used and I could hear them crying. Newborn puppy's tails are docked by many the same way.
> 
> Robin Cooke did a novel a few years back set in a meat packing house. Read it and it will turn you off hamburger forever. I don't know the answer other than not eating or drinking any animal products or not buying any leather products or other animal products made from animal skins. Personally I am not ready to do that. Sorry if you take my post personally.


We all need to play nice in the sandbox! BUT we all have opinions and are sensitive to pain. Looking back a few years at medical procedures practiced on humans will make you cringe. Hopefully we will evolve in the animal kingdom treatment also. We look at dogs as pets. But still in the area where I live I often hear "I am not used to animals in the house". And indeed they do treat them like livestock. It breaks my heart. Personally you have to decide which path you are going to take. And not matter which path it is your voice deserves to be heard. I do think that to not speak up is wrong. So don't take it personally, agree or disagree and then let each of us decide which road to follow. I for one thank you all for your opinions. But these topics do generate passionate feelings. Just understand that.


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

Luciledodd said:


> Wow such anger and I feel it is dirrected at me. As I said not condoning, just explaining.
> Having been reared on a farm, this video doesn't look so bad to me. Have you ever seen pigs neutered? Have you ever seen your mother wring a chickens neck or just chop its head off. Like I said they cut off the pig's tails also and ring their snouts to keep them from rooting under the fences. My sons were both circumsized in the hospital as newborns. No anthesia was used and I could hear them crying. Newborn puppy's tails are docked by many the same way.
> 
> Robin Cooke did a novel a few years back set in a meat packing house. Read it and it will turn you off hamburger forever. I don't know the answer other than not eating or drinking any animal products or not buying any leather products or other animal products made from animal skins. Personally I am not ready to do that. Sorry if you take my post personally.


no anger..not at you.. just at the industry.. and the last post was a sarcastic jibe at ABC for not airing the additional footage.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

In a a perfect world we wouldn't have to slaughter animals to eat. Meat would have been provided to us like manna from heaven but that didn't happen. Vegetarianism has its place and meat eating has its place. I am always skeptical of animal rights groups. The one that did that video is a "go vegetarian" group. I knew there was an agenda. The fact is there are humane farms out there. Everyone should make informed eating choices based upon what they feel is the best way to nourish thier bodies not by shocking video by animal rights groups that does not show the other side of the story. 
Lucille, I admire your ability to grow a garden and have your own chickens for eggs. I tried a small garden and the only thing that grew really well was the jalapeno peppers. McKenna got ahold of one and had some major intestinal issues that were very unpleasant for me but no so much for her..... they got ripped out quickly! Veggie gardens are a lot of work!!


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

mckennasedona said:


> In a a perfect world we wouldn't have to slaughter animals to eat. Meat would have been provided to us like manna from heaven but that didn't happen. Vegetarianism has its place and meat eating has its place. I am always skeptical of animal rights groups. The one that did that video is a "go vegetarian" group. I knew there was an agenda. The fact is there are humane farms out there. Everyone should make informed eating choices based upon what they feel is the best way to nourish thier bodies not by shocking video by animal rights groups that does not show the other side of the story.
> Lucille, I admire your ability to grow a garden and have your own chickens for eggs. I tried a small garden and the only thing that grew really well was the jalapeno peppers. McKenna got ahold of one and had some major intestinal issues that were very unpleasant for me but no so much for her..... they got ripped out quickly! Veggie gardens are a lot of work!!


They used some good footage in it.. my problem was with the tail docking and where they burn the horns off of the dairy cows without anesthesia and the cows are writhing in pain..

They also had footage of one of the men hitting a cow over the head with a wrench for being in his way.. that one was probably a rarity and just a bad guy..hopefully the footage helped to get him fired. But if docking and burning off the horns is the norm then there needs to be laws that require anesthesia.. I can tell you if I got my wisdom teeth pulled out without anesthesia I would have thrown a fit and sued everyone I could touch.. cows can't do that though.. or pigs or dogs..etc.. and if you want your child circumcised without anesthesia then thats your choice.. I'll be having a girl someday so I won't have to worry about it.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

mckennasedona said:


> I agree with Suzy. There are a lot of GOOD dairy, beef, pork, etc., farmers out there but you will never read about them and movies will never be made of them. The media will always highlight the worst case scenario. My uncle had a pig farm in Illinois way back when and his pigs were clean, well fed, treated humanely, etc. The same with many of the dairy farms near my house. The cows are out munching in the fields and lazing in the sun. We as consumers can make informed choices. We can also do our own research to find out who and what is behind some of the programs about the cruelty and awful treatment. I do not, for one minute, deny that the stories are true in many cases but I always try to look at whose agenda is being pushed and the credentials of the person making the statements. I guess I've become quite the skeptic in my middle age.
> If we are concerned about humane treatment and slaughter of the animals whose meat we eat (and we should be) we can always buy Kosher.
> Edited to add that I never eat veal or lamb because of the conditions they are forced to live in, which I have seen for myself plus I cannot abide eating a baby animal.
> If one chooses to be a vegetarian simply for health reasons, I applaud that, but if it is for reasons of cruetly to animals then said vegetarian shouldn't be wearing leather shoes, or leather belts, or sitting on a leather couch or having leather seats in their car.


You are SO right about the media, they really do sensationalize and tend to just tell one side of the story. The movie I mentioned, Food Inc? It actually does go to some 'good'/ethical farms, the difference is night and day. its not telling us to become vegetarians, just how much production has changed since fast food came into play.

I do really wish that our media would be more mindful about letting us see all of what is going on (good and bad) instead of just what they want us to see, what will sell.


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

Personally, Im a vegitarian. I don't eat meat of any kind. That being said, I do eat cheese and drink milk, as long as it is organic and/or from family farms. And to the people who say organic is too expensive....Im a college student, and I manage it 
(the only exception is when I get pizza...at which time I cheat...)

I wouldn't have commented on this, I see both sides of it. My uncle actually used to raise chickens for Tyson, and the first time I saw how they were raised. I stopped eating meat. BUT this was his lively hood, its how he survived, and raised his family. My personal feeling is, if we dont HAVE to have meat to survive, why take the life of an animal? I feed my dogs raw, but dogs NEED meat. Humans dont. Thats just my two cents though .

Now, that being said, be weary of ANYTHING the HSUS says...they are in the same AR leuage as PETA...and if anyone would like me to chat PETA with them, just let me know(when they let one of my dogs out of a crate at a dog show so they could be "free", I had a much more...personal....claim against PETA...)

Im done now, lol, Ill try not to rant/steal the thread


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

AgilityHav said:


> Personally, Im a vegitarian. I don't eat meat of any kind. That being said, I do eat cheese and drink milk, as long as it is organic and/or from family farms. And to the people who say organic is too expensive....Im a college student, and I manage it
> (the only exception is when I get pizza...at which time I cheat...)
> 
> I wouldn't have commented on this, I see both sides of it. My uncle actually used to raise chickens for Tyson, and the first time I saw how they were raised. I stopped eating meat. BUT this was his lively hood, its how he survived, and raised his family. My personal feeling is, if we dont HAVE to have meat to survive, why take the life of an animal? I feed my dogs raw, but dogs NEED meat. Humans dont. Thats just my two cents though .
> ...


PETA stands for People Eating Tasty Animals, right? ...cause if so I'm TOTALLY a member of PETA.


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

hahahahahahaha, yeaaah....no


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

I heard a story on NPR a few years ago about the beef raised by fast food joints and I haven't touched it since. Absolutely appalling.


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

ivyagogo said:


> I heard a story on NPR a few years ago about the beef raised by fast food joints and I haven't touched it since. Absolutely appalling.


a.greed.

And it isn't always just the way the animals are raised, but did you know that quite often the fillers that fast food places use in their hamburgers are cleaned with amonia prior to being mixed with the real meat? There are enough polutants in our air, why eat even more?


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I heard that amonia story. I'm glad I don't eat fast food burgers. Granted, we have amonia in our blood anyway but why add more....it makes no sense.


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