# Help for barking in crate and play pen



## puppyinmyyard (Aug 24, 2010)

Hi everyone. We have had our puppy, Chole, for 3 weeks. She is now 15 weeks old and we are doing well with the house training, establishing a routine etc. But the one things that is driving me crazy is her barking in the crate at night after I let her out to go potty, and her barking while in her ex pen during the day. 

At night she gets up at least once, sometimes twice to potty. She usually barks once and I quickly take her out and she goes. I let her sniff and walk around a bit and then we go back inside and put her in her kennel. I've been putting in a raw hide stick and a couple of toys, but she barks. I have school aged children and a husband who needs his sleep so going on three weeks now it's disrupting our home.

During the day I make sure she gets plenty of outside exercise in our yard, and she can play for a while on leash in the house if she just pottied outside. But she still barks quite a bit during the day. Especially in the evening while I'm cooking dinner and the kids are doing their homework. I'm trying to remember to reward her with a "good quiet" and a treat during the day when she's quiet. And we are trying to ignore the barking altogether (when we know she doesn't need to go potty). But it is a really high pitched bark that's wearing on my nerves! I'm sure all puppy owners go through this, but do you have any tips to help save my sanity???


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

This is tough one because Havanese are companion dogs and even have been referred to as 'velcro' dogs because of their intrinsic need to be with their human, Gucci follows me the the bathroom and if I don't let her in she barks at the door...I'm not saying that you can't train them to get used to being alone, I'm sure you can, but whether that is an easy or difficult task is really contingent on your puppy's personality and how she handles being alone.

My girl had terrible separation anxiety as a puppy and even though it has gotten better (she's 3 now), she still does not like to be alone, she wants to be where the action is and her people are.

Have you tried moving the crate to somewhere she can *see* you at night? That has worked for some, what worked for me was letting her sleep in bed with us, lol..but I know that is not the solution for everyone, and I'm not neccessarily suggesting that, but I'm wondering if she is barking because she wants to play or get out? or if she is barking because she has some separation anxiety? There are always exceptions to the rules, but for the most part, this breed really likes to stick close to their humans.

:welcome:

Kara


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## morridon (Oct 2, 2009)

I think that is is correct that maybe you could move her crate into your bedroom so she knows that you are there. If you are sure that she doesn' t have to potty (it sounds like she is getting into a bad habit) then I would sush her and tell her to go to sleep. Also I wanted to mention the raw hide stick, my vet told me that small dogs and puppies cannot digest raw hide and I would be very careful leaving anything for a puppy or a small dog to chew without supervison. Good luck!


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Have you tried giving her a piece of your clothing[preferably smelly!]to comfort her.This worked with our Nellie,she would cry and fuss when I left her, but she seemed happier when left with one of my smelly old slippers!She now sleeps loose in our bedroom in her little bed next to my side of the bed,and is as good as gold,we did have her in a pen in our room but she would fidget around so much that it disturbed us,so one night I tried her out of the pen,and that was much better.


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## puppyinmyyard (Aug 24, 2010)

We have 5 children and have made it a rule in our house that the dogs are not allowed upstairs where the bedrooms are so unfortunately that means no crate in our room at night.

I think she wants to play. It could be some separation anxiety too, for several nights one of us would sleep on the couch with the crate next to us while she was adjusting to our house. Right now her crate and play pen are in the family room which is visible from the kitchen so during the day she can always see us.........and she still barks  She does seem to be quieter today so I'm hoping it is something she will figure out.


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## morridon (Oct 2, 2009)

Yes. I am sure she will. I am convinced that she wants to be with the family. She is still very young and getting used to everything.


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## puppyinmyyard (Aug 24, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up on the rawhide sticks. I'll have to ask my vet about them. I have the small ones and she isn't able to do much damage to them yet  so I don't think she is ingesting much. I do keep them away from my PWD though because he can demolish them in no time flat, and I know that the rawhide can cause intestinal blockage.


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## LilyMyLove (Jul 11, 2009)

That makes me so sad. Please try to manage your expectations for your dog. Put yourself in her shoes. She left her mother and littermates and everything she knew three weeks ago to show up in a strangers home with strange smells, people, and I could imagine feels left out and alone looking out from a crate at a family of 7 moving on with their day and taking her out just to potty or when they feel like playing with her and putting her back in the box like a toy. Then at night everyone retreats upstairs while she is left alone downstairs at not even four months old. I don't mean to be harsh, but you just seem so flabbergasted as to why your dog would protest these circumstances. 

Havanese are a very loving social breed. Maybe if you attached an exercise pen to her crate so she had more space to move around and play with toys when she does need to be confined. This is the setup I had with Lily for the first year. She had a soft round donut bed, chew toys some big stuffed animals and small squeakers. It was small enough that she would not pee in her area so we could potty train.

Different dogs require different circumstances, like children. I grew up in a family of five and was not parented the exact same way as my siblings as we had different needs and personalities. I don't know what a PWD is, I assume thats a large breed dog. They can be much more independent and less prone to separation anxiety than a small dog. You might consider allowing Chole up in your room in a crate to sleep to reduce her anxiety and improve your sleep. 

Good luck and I hope you both get some relief!


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Upon reading this, I am wondering if there is a correlation between the age our pups leave their breeders and the difficulty they encounter in adjusting to a new environment. Or if it just has more to do with personality? 

Augie has never slept in our room. We have a two-story house with the bedrooms upstairs. We brought him home at 8.5 weeks of age. His breeder advised to immediately train him to a crate but not to lock him in during the night as he wouldn't physically be able to hold his urine that long. We placed his crate in our kitchen (very small kitchen), with baby gates at both entrances, and as he was pretty much paper trained, we put newspaper down in a small area. I slept on the couch for the first week, to comfort him when/if he cried during the night, which he did for a couple nights. During the day I would lock him in his crate for just a few minutes at a time, increasing the length of time, until I could leave him in there for a couple hours if I had to go somewhere. I would also disappear upstairs for short periods of time, increasing that time to get him used to being alone. During the night, he would leave his unlocked crate and go potty on his paper. After learning about the UgoDog potty tray on the forum, we transitioned him to that at about 5 months of age. He then learned to go potty outside at about 8 months when we boarded him. Potty training went quite easily.

He still sleeps in the kitchen, in his crate, with the baby gates up. If we let him have free reign of the downstairs, he goes from room to room and seems to be bothered by noises outside. When I have fallen asleep on the couch, he will sleep there with me for a bit, but then moves to find his own place. He just seems to get better rest in the kitchen in his crate - which still isn't locked. 

He has no separation anxiety issues and hasn't become a barker, except when someone comes to the door. It is also no doubt much quieter around here than your home probably is, as our children are adults and no longer live at home. It appears Chloe was probably about 12 weeks when you brought her home? That just made me curious about the age thing - whether there might be a relationship there. And, like I said, it could just be the difference in personalities.

Good luck to you!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Here's a couple of articles. But don't take him out of his crate when he barks, or you will be encouraging him to bark. You have to get up in the middle of the night, no ifs about it. Here are the articles. http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/puppy-playroom-amp-doggy-den and http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/separation-anxiety


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## puppyinmyyard (Aug 24, 2010)

LilyMyLove said:


> That makes me so sad. Please try to manage your expectations for your dog. Put yourself in her shoes. She left her mother and littermates and everything she knew three weeks ago to show up in a strangers home with strange smells, people, and I could imagine feels left out and alone looking out from a crate at a family of 7 moving on with their day and taking her out just to potty or when they feel like playing with her and putting her back in the box like a toy. Then at night everyone retreats upstairs while she is left alone downstairs at not even four months old. I don't mean to be harsh, but you just seem so flabbergasted as to why your dog would protest these circumstances.


I don't think I "put her back in the box like a toy". She has a crate with a bed and toys where she sleeps at night. For several days one of us slept by her crate until she got used to our home. She doesn't mind her crate, but would rather play after she potties in the middle of the night instead of going back in her crate. I would imagine this is quite common and I thought maybe someone could relate their own experience to this.

I am a stay at home mom with 5 children so she gets plenty of play time. She rides in the car with us and is rarely left alone. But for house training purposes I cannot keep my eye on her all the time.........hence the play pen. I don't think this is cruel. I realize she is a baby and is still getting used to us. I believe that training starts early and I don't want her to get used to barking every time she wants to get out and play. So I feel like I'm missing something simple here, isn't this quite common?


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

It really depends on if you are dealing with separation anxiety issues OR just a puppy that wants to play or needs food, water, to go out, etc. Like children, they have their own personalities and needs, and certain breeds are less independent...like Havanese, or any of the 'companion bred' dogs, its like telling a bird dog they can't look at birds, or a rescue dog they can't rescue...some of this may be resolved by moving her to where she can *see* you (say when she is in the pen and you are making dinner) OR, if not, leaving your pillow or something with your scent there to help reassure her.

Leaving her alone downstairs at night, this *may* be something that you might want to reconsider the rules on..IF it is SA, otherwise..you will both be miserable, you will be sleep deprived and your dog will be depressed and acting out, maybe one of your kids would let her sleep on the floor in her bed? I know my kids would fight over that offer, lol 

I'm not saying to give up and try something else, I'm just saying you may have to meet somewhere in the middle, because some havs do not like to be alone and need to be with people, hence the term 'velcro dogs', they are nowhere as independent as PWD, or beagles...

Many of the dogs that end up in Rescue were given up for this very reason, so I think it does scare some of us when read questions of this nature, only you know for sure if the puppy is reacting like this because of separation issues or she craves companionship, Some people find out that havanese are 'high maintenance' and need more attention than they are used to giving a dog... and they end up realizing they need a more independent breed so they give up their havs to rescue, or the pound..or on CL  ... 

You sound like you are want to make this work and I hope you can find advice on here that works, I'd try the 'scent' thing tonight and see how that goes... They say all dogs need 'jobs' and Havs, well..they just want to love you 

Kara


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Kipling was also very vocal about his crate at first and if he was too far from us. We did use the no bark command and eventually he settled with his barking - I think maturity has also helped. He is now 18 months and he barks much less than he did when he first came home.

I was definitely anxious about the barking at first having no idea if he would outgrow it or not...he is our first dog. I fretted about this. If I knew then, that he would likely outgrow it with proper training and reactions/or not then I may have relaxed a little - so take this as reassurance that your baby will mature and with your help will adapt and bark much less.

For sleep, we kept Kipling's crate near us in the bedroom and as it turned out he was restless there. We eventually moved it to the kitchen (one floor down from our bedroom) and he has settled there and sleeps happily in his crate with zero fuss. In his case, he wasn't suffering from SA as much as puppyhood and simply wanting to play.

Good luck


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## desi's mom (Jul 28, 2010)

I have an idea that has worked for me and what may work for you - I believe all dogs need a daily walk - not just a run of the yard but a good walk around your block - sometimes all they need is a run - or fast walk. Puppies and even my 5 year old Desi has lots of energy to burn!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kodi was 11 weeks and our experience was much like yours. He has an ex-pen attached to his crate (with a litter box) rather than being blocked in the kitchen with pee pads. But he has ALWAYS slept quietly and happily in his crate.

I didn't crate him much during the day before he was fully reliable, though... He was with me, being watched like a hawk. I had several ex-pens that I could move around to keep him right near me, (and his litter box!) but still give him enough room to play.

He did go through a period of getting really barky and wild around supper time. Our trainers both told me that it is common for puppies, just like kids, to haave a "witching hour" in the late afternoon or early evening. I ws told to put him in his crate, and if necessary, cover the crate so he couldn't see out when he got over stimulated at this time of day. It only lasted a few weeks, but he was VERY loud for that period!!!



motherslittlehelper said:


> Upon reading this, I am wondering if there is a correlation between the age our pups leave their breeders and the difficulty they encounter in adjusting to a new environment. Or if it just has more to do with personality?
> 
> Augie has never slept in our room. We have a two-story house with the bedrooms upstairs. We brought him home at 8.5 weeks of age. His breeder advised to immediately train him to a crate but not to lock him in during the night as he wouldn't physically be able to hold his urine that long. We placed his crate in our kitchen (very small kitchen), with baby gates at both entrances, and as he was pretty much paper trained, we put newspaper down in a small area. I slept on the couch for the first week, to comfort him when/if he cried during the night, which he did for a couple nights. During the day I would lock him in his crate for just a few minutes at a time, increasing the length of time, until I could leave him in there for a couple hours if I had to go somewhere. I would also disappear upstairs for short periods of time, increasing that time to get him used to being alone. During the night, he would leave his unlocked crate and go potty on his paper. After learning about the UgoDog potty tray on the forum, we transitioned him to that at about 5 months of age. He then learned to go potty outside at about 8 months when we boarded him. Potty training went quite easily.
> 
> ...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

puppyinmyyard said:


> I don't think I "put her back in the box like a toy". She has a crate with a bed and toys where she sleeps at night. For several days one of us slept by her crate until she got used to our home. She doesn't mind her crate, but would rather play after she potties in the middle of the night instead of going back in her crate. I would imagine this is quite common and I thought maybe someone could relate their own experience to this.
> 
> I am a stay at home mom with 5 children so she gets plenty of play time. She rides in the car with us and is rarely left alone. But for house training purposes I cannot keep my eye on her all the time.........hence the play pen. I don't think this is cruel. I realize she is a baby and is still getting used to us. I believe that training starts early and I don't want her to get used to barking every time she wants to get out and play. So I feel like I'm missing something simple here, isn't this quite common?


You may need to fine-tune things to get a handle on the barking, but you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to keep her confined when you can't watch her closely... both for the sake of potty training, and also for her safety!

It might help to have a trainer come to your house to observe exactly what is going on and make recommendations. Often there are different REASONS for why a dog is doing xxx. Until you can figure out the reason, it's hard to come up with a plan to fix the problem.


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## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

krandall said:


> You may need to fine-tune things to get a handle on the barking, but you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to keep her confined when you can't watch her closely... both for the sake of potty training, and also for her safety!
> 
> It might help to have a trainer come to your house to observe exactly what is going on and make recommendations. Often there are different REASONS for why a dog is doing xxx. Until you can figure out the reason, it's hard to come up with a plan to fix the problem.


Couldn't agree more on both counts - too much freedom too early leads to difficulty potty training. Kipling still doesn't get to roam free - we always know where he is and what he's doing.

And yes...often it's trial and error to figure out why the barking and how to manage it.....and if it were me, I'd definitely look into this and work on it. You do not want it to become habit. There's no reason that you won't figure it out.


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## puppyinmyyard (Aug 24, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your continued support! I'm so afraid of doing something wrong and causing Chole to get into bad habits. I have had three dogs in my adult life and learned so much more about training with each of them. Our big dog Tiger, is a Portuguese Water Dog and came to us at 18 months so we skipped the puppy stage with him since he was fully trained. We had a Bichon for 7 years that we re-homed last summer to a retired couple with no kids or other dogs. She never really liked the kids and continued to mark on their shoes, backpacks etc. I worked with our vet, a breeder and a trainer and in the end we all decided it was best to find her another home. It was a hard decision and if I seem a bit over zealous it is because I really want to do everything right with Chloe so that she will be a real part of our family. 

I really don't think we are dealing with separation anxiety. I think she wants out to play. The worst times of the day are in the morning as the kids are getting ready for school and again in the evening when I'm cooking dinner and the kids are doing homework. We are all busy and she can see us running around, so of course she wants out to join in the fun. Looking back, these are the times I would usually feed the dogs and put them outside. Chloe is too little to put out by herself right now so that's part of the problem. We have a 2 acre fenced yard so as she gets older she'll be able to go out and run around.

I got out a bucket of tennis balls so Tiger, Chole, my two year old and I just came inside from playing ball. That was fun and wore all of them out!! So I think it's just a matter of adjusting expectations/schedules and for me, just remaining calm and peaceful in the midst of the chaos of everyday life!


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Nellie is free in our bedroom at night she is 18 weeks old,and what I do is when I have to get up to go to the loo,I just take her outside and she does a wee,she is still half asleep and all wobbly !then I pick her up and put her back in her bed and then she goes through until the alarm goes off at six thirty,then it is straight outside with Dizzie whilst I make a pot of tea etc.She does get lots of play through out the day with Dizzie and we have a long walk nearly every afternoon although I do carry her some of the way as it is too much for her little puppy legs[she doesn't think so, but I do!]
The thing is she doesn't wake up properly in the night a bit like lifting a child who wets the bed,they don't remember it because they are half asleep, so she doesn't want to play.


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

Congratulations on being a havanese parent. 

I have raised 4 male havanese and I know all about them barking because they want out. I did let them bark it out to a point, after I knew they were fed and had gone potty. My third boy was a real screamer in the crate when I was getting my daughter ready for school. I just made sure he had food, water and had been taken to the potty. He screamed for 3 days and then quit and waited quietly until I could come and get him out. Don't talk to him or walk up to the crate while he is barking, just ignore the behavior. 

One thing that I did was attach a leash to me or a door/cabinet and that way I could have the puppy with me while I was doing household chores so he wouldn't have to be in the crate so much. They really want to be with us, and there are times that a puppy needs to be crated. Be sure to not let your puppy out until it is quiet. I would wait a minute or two and let them settle down and then let him out after he was settled. 
Feed your puppy dinner in his/her crate when the family is having dinner. 

If you don't open the crate door until they are sitting and quiet, they will learn that sitting and quiet gets the door open a lot sooner. It worked for me. 

I would hope that you could reconsider having the crate in one of the bedrooms, they really don't like being alone. Havanese are very much companion dogs, they need their people. 

You shouldn't have to be taking the puppy out at night much longer, I would say by 20 weeks or sooner they should able to hold it all night. They will train you to get up at night for attention. Good Luck.


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## andra (Aug 23, 2010)

Well, Dionna is technically my first puppy (I explained my situation in my introduction) and I brought her home at 8.5 weeks. We hired an in home trainer right away so we could 'do things right' since she was our first puppy. Her crate is in our kitchen, which is a good size and is a fairly large kitchen. We have it puppy proofed and have two potty pads on one side (she was trained on potty pads as a baby so we just continued with this). Her crate door stays open and the crate is set up like a bed and she likes to take her toys in there  The door to the kitchen has a gate so she is confined to the kitchen at night. We have never had any issues with crying or barking, unless somebody comes to the door. I do know that she would leave her crate in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and also to play. Now she is older at 8 months and she seems to sleep for most of the night but early on, she liked to walk around and would also play. We would remove most toys except a few at night. We also kept classical music on low for her and still do to this day. 

She is now fully housebroken but during the learning stages with this, she was basically in the kitchen all of the time and I or somebody else stayed in the kitchen for most of the time. Now she can be with us in the rest of the house and she knows to search out her potty pads or we will take her out. We take her on 2-4 walks per day and she loves those walks.

I have to say that the in home trainer from the get go helped us tremendously as they gave us so many tools and strategies early on to address things immediately. I feel like we nipped a lot in the bud and now we dont have many issues. The trainers we used are based on dog psychology and are very positive, which has worked really well for Dionna. I believe we would have had issues early on had we not had the trainers.

Anyway, I wanted to congratulate you on your havanese puppy  I am new to all of this and I certainly understand the growing pains and the phases we all experience.

andra


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## puppyinmyyard (Aug 24, 2010)

Wow Andra, that is so great you were able to get a trainer to help out from the beginning!! What a great way to get started. I really thought I had done a lot of reading/research and would get it totally right this time. LOL at myself............I have 5 children..........I should have realized dogs are like kids in that a one-size-fits-all doesn't work!


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## puppyinmyyard (Aug 24, 2010)

And much thanks to all for relating their experiences and stories about puppyhood. I am sure we will get through this and I hope that I will be able to someday support others in turn who are going through the early days at home with a puppy


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

puppyinmyyard said:


> Wow Andra, that is so great you were able to get a trainer to help out from the beginning!! What a great way to get started. I really thought I had done a lot of reading/research and would get it totally right this time. LOL at myself............I have 5 children..........I should have realized dogs are like kids in that a one-size-fits-all doesn't work!


I have 7 kids (3 from a previous marriage and my husband has 4 from a previous marriage) we married when they were all pretty young, and you'd think I'd have it all figured out by now...but they still present us with something new, lol..I told my oldest daughter the other day, she was our first teenage learning experience, and we probably made more mistakes with her, lol just not understanding the whole morphing thing they do during puberty, lol its like a different kid comes out of the other side..ound:

But I have learned that what works with one, doesnt' necessarily work with the others, I have to approach them from a completely different angle, as far as communicating with them, with animals, its a bit more challenging because they cant' tell us what is wrong, we have to guess..
then again, some of my kids are like that, too..:doh:

This place was a godsend to me when I was a puppy mom, the SA was a big hurdle, as was housebreaking..but we got to the other side 

Kara


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