# Covid Conundrum



## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

I was notified last Wednesday that I had been in close contact with someone who had tested positive for C-19 virus. He was doing some concrete work for me. Even though I wear a mask and distance he refuses to wear a mask. I hadn't seen him in about 10 days but that was still within the window of opportunity. He had been at home in bed sick with C-19 symptoms in the meantime so his doctor ordered a test and he was positive. I had not been feeling well and became concerned. On Thursday I contacted our local County testing station and they were not accepting new appointments at this time since they are overwhelmed with people wanting tests. They referred me to a testing site 150 miles away where they could give me an appointment in TWO WEEKS! I called my medical care provider for immediate assistance. They said they were only giving tests to those who displayed symptoms and had a doctor's authorization. She referred me to a consulting nurse who asked me a long list of questions and said my case for a test was "marginal" but she would have a physician call when available to make a final determination. Thursday evening a physician called me and asked more questions. He said they were most concerned about anyone running a temperature (which I wasn't) but he said I did have some "unusual" symptoms and because of my age he would authorize a test for me but not for Momi because she had absolutely no symptoms. 

On Friday, the person I had been exposed to called me and said his whole family about 7 people had been tested because he had tested positive. They all came up negative! So they decided to test him again and HE came up negative the second time!!! The physician said it was a "false positive" the first time. The physician said that his three day sickness was something other than C-19!

Friday morning, I went to the Medical Building lab (about 20 miles away) for the test. Initially I was the only one there but others arrived after me. The test was administered by an RN. She tested me with a throat swab and nasal swab. The nasal swab was very uncomfortable. They went way up into my nasal passage and swabbed for about 15 seconds. There was an acute burning sensation. The nurse said I would get result in "3 to 5 days." I was sent my results via email last night (Sunday). I am negative.

Momi went to a big box pharmacy for a drive through test on Friday evening. It is a self-administered test while you sit in your car, no one to assist. It is only a nasal swab test. She said she didn't stick it very far in her nose because it hurt. They told her to expect results in 3 to 7 days. She has not received her results yet. I don't have confidence in her test but I am certain she is negative anyway.

It has been a hectic and stressful week!

Ricky's Popi


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## stephsu (Apr 27, 2020)

Oh wow, that's scary. I am glad that you tested negative and hope Momi will too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Wow, what a scary ordeal, but I am SO glad you are negative!!! I have to say, I am so surprised how differently these tests are done across the country. I have been tested twice here in MA. Once because I had a DVT blood clot, and aince they have seen some strange clotting problems with Covid, they wanted to rule that out. (It was not Covid) and the second time, I had an off and on fever for almost 10 days. I also tested negative then, though I’m not positive I actually WAS negative that time. 

However, it was easy for me to get tested both times. It was a drive-up testing site at a hospital both times (different hospitals each time) in both cases it was a nasal swab. While it goes WAY up into your nasal passage, (feels like it’s tickling your brain!) the test that they use here is a VERY narrow little swab. I wouldn’t call it any more than mildly uncomfortable. It was certainly no worse than flu or Strep tests I’ve had in the past. I just thought I’d say that so that people aren’t afraid to get tested if they think they need it. It’s not always a terrible experience. Oh, and here in MA, I got my results in less than 24 hours both times. That seems to be standard turn-around rime here... I know that is NOT the case in CA right now... I know they are having a real problem with backlog right now.

And... I WISH they would make it LAW that people have to wear masks everwhere. It is law in MA. That’s the good news. The bad news is that we are now in Phase 3 now too. Now our governor has not allowed the opening of bars (and won’t) but both restaurants with indoor seating and fitness places, both with certain precautions, are allowed to be open. 

And I am REALLY worried that we are are going to see the same thing happen as happened in CA. Yes, our governor was more cautious, and waied longer to reopen, partially because we had to beat back a much larger surge in the spring, but we DID that. We got numbers REALLY low. And now, even though people are being pretty good about masks, we ARE seeing cases creeping up. Most of that is in tourist area, where people are coming in from out of state (not surprising) but I see people being less cautious. I don’t understand it. What do people think? That this virus is all of a sudden less dangerous? I don’t get it...


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*COVID*



krandall said:


> Wow, what a scary ordeal, but I am SO glad you are negative!!! I have to say, I am so surprised how differently these tests are done across the country. I have been tested twice here in MA. Once because I had a DVT blood clot, and aince they have seen some strange clotting problems with Covid, they wanted to rule that out. (It was not Covid) and the second time, I had an off and on fever for almost 10 days. I also tested negative then, though I'm not positive I actually WAS negative that time.
> 
> However, it was easy for me to get tested both times. It was a drive-up testing site at a hospital both times (different hospitals each time) in both cases it was a nasal swab. While it goes WAY up into your nasal passage, (feels like it's tickling your brain!) the test that they use here is a VERY narrow little swab. I wouldn't call it any more than mildly uncomfortable. It was certainly no worse than flu or Strep tests I've had in the past. I just thought I'd say that so that people aren't afraid to get tested if they think they need it. It's not always a terrible experience. Oh, and here in MA, I got my results in less than 24 hours both times. That seems to be standard turn-around rime here... I know that is NOT the case in CA right now... I know they are having a real problem with backlog right now.
> 
> ...


I still can't believe how hard getting tested STILL is in the US!

As for "what are they thinking"
1) I won't get it
2) It's not that bad
3) even if I do get it, I won't get that sick
4) masks are uncomfortable
5) All that matters is that I'm uncomfortable, who cares about everyone else, I'm not wearing it.

And in addition to all of the problems it's causing there, it also is resulting in a lot of other countries closing their borders to US residents. It's one of the things we have to consider right now for us - when we leave here in November, where do we go - because as soon as we touch down on US soil, we will basically be trapped there - we still have options on where to go before that (since it's linked to US residence/ not passport), but because people can't follow basic scientific advice, no one else wants US residents to visit them.

Popi - I'm glad the two of you were negative.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> And... I WISH they would make it LAW that people have to wear masks everwhere. It is law in MA. That's the good news. The bad news is that we are now in Phase 3 now too. Now our governor has not allowed the opening of bars (and won't) but both restaurants with indoor seating and fitness places, both with certain precautions, are allowed to be open.


I just read an article about this 10 minutes ago! A local professor and his students have reviewed over 130 mask studies over the past couple of months and found that masks are even more effective than anyone expected them to be.

DD has been up in arms about masks, as it's been a point of controversy where we live. I do keep telling her, the opposite of politicizing masks isn't to be confrontational about masks. Just wear the mask without complaining.

I learned today that I have a terrible time recognizing people with masks, but apparently other people don't have this problem! I was kind of enjoying feeling anonymous! It turns out, if I go in public without any makeup on and my hair in a knotted mess, even with a mask, people I know do still recognize me and can see that I no longer believe in self care


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> She tested me with a throat swab and nasal swab. The nasal swab was very uncomfortable. They went way up into my nasal passage and swabbed for about 15 seconds. There was an acute burning sensation.


DS had labs drawn at a hospital with a testing site in the parking lot. A little kid was being tested all the way across the parking lot but we could still hear him cry out. It was sad.



Ricky Ricardo said:


> It has been a hectic and stressful week!


I hope you are feeling better! Nothing like the stress of testing and waiting and worrying when you're already under the weather.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*masks*



EvaE1izabeth said:


> I just read an article about this 10 minutes ago! A local professor and his students have reviewed over 130 mask studies over the past couple of months and found that masks are even more effective than anyone expected them to be.
> 
> DD has been up in arms about masks, as it's been a point of controversy where we live. I do keep telling her, the opposite of politicizing masks isn't to be confrontational about masks. Just wear the mask without complaining.
> 
> I learned today that I have a terrible time recognizing people with masks, but apparently other people don't have this problem! I was kind of enjoying feeling anonymous! It turns out, if I go in public without any makeup on and my hair in a knotted mess, even with a mask, people I know do still recognize me and can see that I no longer believe in self care


Do not mistake me - I HATE the mask. I hate wearing it - AND I am the same as EvaElizabeth - I already have facial recognition issues (never officially diagnosed, but I am pretty sure I have a mild form of face blindness - I'm pretty sure my Dad did too), the mask increases that 10 fold! In addition, while I do not have any hearing loss, I do find that I can "hear" (i.e. understand) people better if I can also see their mouths/ read their lips (while listening to them) so without that things are a little harder (not as hard as they are for people who do have hearing loss, but still). So, wearing a mask is not a fun thing - but I think the respect for other people is more important.

I do agree that being confrontational is not the answer, but knowing that these people are showing a disregard for the health and safety of everyone around them makes that hard. You wouldn't let someone drive drunk because they could hurt others, this feels like the same thing. I wish I had an answer.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> I still can't believe how hard getting tested STILL is in the US!
> 
> As for "what are they thinking"
> 1) I won't get it
> ...


Yes, I do know that a lot of it is the very selfish, insular thinking of so many Americans it is very sad, and makes me ashamed. Maybe because I have travelled a lot outside the US and have many international friends, I really see humans as a global community. We are all spinning on this tiny chunk of rock together! And I can't WAIT for this to be over... for MANY reasons, but partly so I can LEAVE this country again and see dear friends and relatives in other parts of the world!

Incidentally, my step mom is Latvian, and a member of the Latvian Lutheran church here in the Boston area. They always have a Latvian minister, from Latvia, because all the services are still spoken in Latvian. (They also have Saturday School for the children to learn their native language) The ministers are here on a green card for 3 years or so, then return to Latvia, and a new one will come. It is a nice opportunity for them and their families to really get to know the US for a few years, and for the whole family to learn to speak English well. Well, their current Minister went back to Latvia for some sort of extended family emergency at the start of all this, and between Covid and the general problems for foreign nationals with this administration, he was not able to get back into the US. And now, of course, the borders are pretty well closed. His wife and children are here in Boston, living at the rectory, he is staying with relatives in Riga. They are still working on sorting out his green card status again. In the mean time, the church has not been having "live" services anyway, so he has been brodcasting his services and leading a weekly bible study from Riga! At leadt there ARE some advantages to this happening in the modern age!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I just read an article about this 10 minutes ago! A local professor and his students have reviewed over 130 mask studies over the past couple of months and found that masks are even more effective than anyone expected them to be.
> 
> DD has been up in arms about masks, as it's been a point of controversy where we live. I do keep telling her, the opposite of politicizing masks isn't to be confrontational about masks. Just wear the mask without complaining.
> 
> I learned today that I have a terrible time recognizing people with masks, but apparently other people don't have this problem! I was kind of enjoying feeling anonymous! It turns out, if I go in public without any makeup on and my hair in a knotted mess, even with a mask, people I know do still recognize me and can see that I no longer believe in self care


LOL! Yes, I can usually still recognize people as long as I know them reasonably well! I saw a client that I haven't seen in a couple of years at the grocery store the other day, and recognized her right away!

I know your daughter is a smart kid. Maybe this article will help her believe!:

https://www.insider.com/microbiologist-shows-how-a-mask-catches-droplets-coronavirus-2020-7


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> Do not mistake me - I HATE the mask. I hate wearing it - AND I am the same as EvaElizabeth - I already have facial recognition issues (never officially diagnosed, but I am pretty sure I have a mild form of face blindness - I'm pretty sure my Dad did too), the mask increases that 10 fold! In addition, while I do not have any hearing loss, I do find that I can "hear" (i.e. understand) people better if I can also see their mouths/ read their lips (while listening to them) so without that things are a little harder (not as hard as they are for people who do have hearing loss, but still). So, wearing a mask is not a fun thing - but I think the respect for other people is more important.
> 
> I do agree that being confrontational is not the answer, but knowing that these people are showing a disregard for the health and safety of everyone around them makes that hard. You wouldn't let someone drive drunk because they could hurt others, this feels like the same thing. I wish I had an answer.


I don't have a problem recognizing people, but I DEFINITELY have a problem understanding what they are saying, and aI agree, I think it is because I can't see their lips.

Yeah, nobody said this was fun. I don't know ANYBODY who likes it. But (and it has almost become a cliche...) "if you don't like wearing a mask, you're gonna hate wearing a respirator!"


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> LOL! Yes, I can usually still recognize people as long as I know them reasonably well! I saw a client that I haven't seen in a couple of years at the grocery store the other day, and recognized her right away!
> 
> I know your daughter is a smart kid. Maybe this article will help her believe!:
> 
> https://www.insider.com/microbiologist-shows-how-a-mask-catches-droplets-coronavirus-2020-7


Oh she believes in masks, she also believes it's her personal responsibility to publicly shame anyone who doesn't wear one on social media. Not sure the drama is going to change someone's mind.

I haven't seen this, I'll show it to her!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Oh she believes in masks, she also believes it's her personal responsibility to publicly shame anyone who doesn't wear one on social media. Not sure the drama is going to change someone's mind.
> 
> I haven't seen this, I'll show it to her!


Oh, OK! I thought she was fighting masks! I was thinking how hard it might be to have a child who was fighting against you on masks! This might be ALMOST as hard! LOL!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> Oh, OK! I thought she was fighting masks! I was thinking how hard it might be to have a child who was fighting against you on masks! This might be ALMOST as hard! LOL!


I was worried DS would fight me on it. He has sensory issues due to an oxygen related brain injury and getting him to brush his teeth was a nightmare. He wasn't excited about it, but he just kept telling himself, "I can do this!" And let me tell you, he is not an optimist, this took effort! The first time he had to wear it we made sure his Switch was fully charged so he had a distraction to help him get used to it. Yeah, they're annoying, but if he can do it, so can I.

The 10% of people with legitimate claustrophobia, sensory issues, or even the person who forgot their mask one time but is cautious, are not the problem, IMO. It's the huge number of people who find it inconvenient. Masks were starting to become the minority until a week or so ago. It happened very fast here, people were wearing them, and then they just stopped. I was in a store about 2 weeks ago and all of the employees were wearing them, but only a couple others had masks in the whole store. Our family had to backtrack quite a bit and evaluate how and where we can feel safe going out into the community. The last couple of weeks the push to wear masks has improved, and a bunch of local places that didn't require them before now do, so it's getting better.

I think most people who don't wear a mask really believe it wont make that much of a difference and isn't a big deal, especially because they see most people aren't doing it. I don't think it's quite as political as it's been made out to be. More people are wearing them here now, so I still have hope. It's like seat belts in a way. No one would say now, don't bother wearing a seat belt because the chances of you getting in an accident are so low. Everyone understands the point is if you DO get in an accident, it can save your life. I do think people will come around. I hope it's soon, though, because how many years did it take for that to change with seat belts?? By the time everyone is on board, the time when it is most critical might have passed.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I was worried DS would fight me on it. He has sensory issues due to an oxygen related brain injury and getting him to brush his teeth was a nightmare. He wasn't excited about it, but he just kept telling himself, "I can do this!" And let me tell you, he is not an optimist, this took effort! The first time he had to wear it we made sure his Switch was fully charged so he had a distraction to help him get used to it. Yeah, they're annoying, but if he can do it, so can I.


Have to admit, I had to Google "Switch". 



EvaE1izabeth said:


> The 10% of people with legitimate claustrophobia, sensory issues, or even the person who forgot their mask one time but is cautious, are not the problem, IMO. It's the huge number of people who find it inconvenient.


Dave is not clinically claustrophobic, but he's claustrophobic enough that he has never been able to wear even a mock turtleneck, let alone a real one. So a mask is a REAL challenge for him. He owns a small CPA firm, and he and his two full-time employees have their own offices. They have not been letting clients in the office at all, and he has been bringing lunch to work every day. So he has been able to get away without wearing a mask most of the time... especially while things were more shut down. People drop their files off in a box outside their door, and they do video calls to discuss anything needed. Everything is done electronically. But now things are opening up. "Tax season 2.0" is over, and his quarterly clients want him to go out to their offices. So he's had to MAKE himself wear a mask. He's doing it, but I hear about it EVERY night. How hard it is, he can't breathe, he can't talk, he can't hear... I've bought him 18,000 different models of masks now. I THINK we've found one that he's tolerating better than the others. It's one of the more "pointy" shaped ones, so it doesn't touch against his mouth when he breathes in. That was REALLY panicking him.

I seem to be spending a lot on masks, but, you know? I figure we're going to be wearing these for a long time. They'd better be comfortable. The BEST ones are the ones I get when I go to the hospital for my infusions. Those are MUCH easier to breathe through. But of course, those are meant to be single-use. And when we've tried buying that kind on-line, the generic ones are NOT the same. They are MUCH thicker, and are hard to breathe through. So I squirrel away my hospital ones, and keep them in a clean plastic bag, just in case I'm in a situation where I might need to wear one all day long. Right now, I really am rarely in a situation where I need one at all. Just the grocery store once a week, and taking Kodi to the vet for his therapy.



EvaE1izabeth said:


> By the time everyone is on board, the time when it is most critical might have passed.


I am afraid we have a LONG way to go... I just hope we don't lose too many more people before then...


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> Have to admit, I had to Google "Switch".
> I seem to be spending a lot on masks, but, you know? I figure we're going to be wearing these for a long time. They'd better be comfortable.


My favorite is the print one I ordered for DS, from Threadless. It was more expensive, I think it might have been the same price as some of the packs from other places for the rest of the family. And it took the longest to arrive. At the time I was worried about finding something that he would wear, keep on, and would be comfortable, since he'll have to wear one for a long time. It is by far the softest. It turns out, he prefers the pleated style, and it became my first choice. I think because it's softer and a bit stretchy it doesn't move around, so I'm just less conscious of it.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

We've got an open space office, but we've planned the layout and who can be in the office when (half the office M/W the other half T/T, no switching days, working at home the rest of the week - and even on those days you don't have to go to the office but those are the only days you are permitted to be there) so that there's adequate distance between people at desks, everyone can stay at their own desks, so that they don't have to wear their mask when they're sitting at their desk, but DO have to put it on when they step away from their desk and if someone comes to their desk to talk. All of this in a country where we're now (only) around 1100 total cases in the whole country (population 43 million) and still at 0 deaths.

Last weekend was the first time I actually saw people at stores turning people away if they weren't wearing a mask - because we have relatively few cases and no deaths so far, there are a lot of people who don't think it's that serious, but glad to see that stores are taking it more seriously because cases are rising. The difference here is that no one is threatening violence when a store requires a mask. They do try to argue (politely) about it (oh I forgot it, it's in the car), but the guards are staying firm and turning them away which is great (probably helps that all stores have security guards who do this, so it's not a store clerk trying to do their job and enforce it).

The President spoke last night and reduced a few of the remaining restrictions. Schools are still closed (will make a decision before Sept), religious institutions still closed (and this is a very religious country), but curfew (which was 7pm - 6:30am) has been eased to 9pm - 5:30am, "arcades" (a type of shopping center) can now open with strict SoPs, hair salons can now open with strict SoPs, and the biggest one for everyone here - "boda bodas" (basically motorcycle taxis) can now operate with specific rules (including that they have to keep a log book of contact info of everyone they carry). the airport is still closed and the borders are still closed.

Karen - has Dave tried a face shield instead? I've seen some that are just a normal shield and some that come down to the neck so more like a clear beekeeper mask? https://www.dezeen.com/2020/04/13/face-shields-coronavirus-apple-foster/


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I was notified last Wednesday that I had been in close contact with someone who had tested positive for C-19 virus. He was doing some concrete work for me. Even though I wear a mask and distance he refuses to wear a mask.
> 
> I'm glad to hear you tested negative Popi. That must have been so stressful. Some people can be so disrespectful. I don't think they realize the seriousness of COVID-19 and how it could impact their life. Hopefully Momi will also be negative.
> If you want to be tested in our area there are COVID testing stations with results within 1-2 days. My DH had to have hernia surgery and was tested three times. The day of surgery he had another test with results within one hour. He was told it was a more expensive test.
> I have seen very few people in our town not wearing masks. We are the last Bay Area county not on the state's watch list. Hopefully that won't change tomorrow.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Heather's said:


> If you want to be tested in our area there are COVID testing stations with results within 1-2 days. My DH had to have hernia surgery and was tested three times. The day of surgery he had another test with results within one hour. He was told it was a more expensive test.
> I have seen very few people in our town not wearing masks. We are the last Bay Area county not on the state's watch list. Hopefully that won't change tomorrow.


My understanding is that the Southern California counties are as bad, if not worse, than the Bay area counties were 4 months ago. Yes, it is possible to get an immediate test(s) here if a physician schedules you for essential surgery, otherwise all the county health department testing stations within 100 miles of my location are not taking any appointments at this time, they are so impacted. My health care provider (Kaiser) is not providing tests unless you meet very specific criteria (like essential surgery or colonoscopy or a minimum 3 CDC symptoms, etc). A physician took pity on me and authorized a very thorough test at Kaiser's local medical campus. My test results came back in 2.5 days and that is considered super fast here. Momi still hasn't received her results from Rite-Aid (really not a thorough test), maybe today or tomorrow which will be 5/6 days.

Although more people are wearing masks here now than a month ago, a significant percentage still don't. Most stores now require masks to enter, but as soon as people get inside they put their mask under their chin and stores don't have enough personnel to police everyone. So neighbors are confronting neighbors to get them to put their mask back on and it has turned into some very ugly confrontations. I wear a mask when I take Ricky for a walk outside and some of my neighbors have shunned me for political reasons. They say masks are not required outside. I won't argue with them, does no good. Evidently, the governor is considering a lockdown for our county because it is so bad. Some neighbors are circulating petitions to recall him and they are getting a lot of support. They say this whole thing is a politically motivated hoax to undermine the White House.

It's a conundrum.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Melissa Brill said:


> All of this in a country where we're now (only) around 1100 total cases in the whole country (population 43 million) and still at 0 deaths.


The COUNTY I live in is 2.5 million and mostly rural. We have 31,000 cases and 589 deaths and the numbers are rising exponentially. We are running out of ICU beds.



> Last weekend was the first time I actually saw people at stores turning people away if they weren't wearing a mask - because we have relatively few cases and no deaths so far, there are a lot of people who don't think it's that serious, but glad to see that stores are taking it more seriously because cases are rising. The difference here is that no one is threatening violence when a store requires a mask. They do try to argue (politely) about it (oh I forgot it, it's in the car), but the guards are staying firm and turning them away which is great (probably helps that all stores have security guards who do this, so it's not a store clerk trying to do their job and enforce it).
> 
> and the biggest one for everyone here - "boda bodas" (basically motorcycle taxis) can now operate with specific rules (including that they have to keep a log book of contact info of everyone they carry). the airport is still closed and the borders are still closed.


Compare this to the U.S. whose citizens think they have the most advanced society with the best health care system on the face of the earth! Your restrictions would result in mass hysteria here locally.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> Have to admit, I had to Google "Switch".


Me too! Nintendo device (for those who no longer have children in the house).

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> My favorite is the print one I ordered for DS, from Threadless. It was more expensive, I think it might have been the same price as some of the packs from other places for the rest of the family. And it took the longest to arrive. At the time I was worried about finding something that he would wear, keep on, and would be comfortable, since he'll have to wear one for a long time. It is by far the softest. It turns out, he prefers the pleated style, and it became my first choice. I think because it's softer and a bit stretchy it doesn't move around, so I'm just less conscious of it.


I think it's good we've got a lot of styles to choose from. The problem with the pleated ones is that I've found that I HAVE to iron them after washing, or they just end up inside my mouth! And I haven't ironed ANYTHING in so long that I had to order a new iron on Amazon. Not a huge big deal, but... REALLY?!?! LOL!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> Karen - has Dave tried a face shield instead? I've seen some that are just a normal shield and some that come down to the neck so more like a clear beekeeper mask? https://www.dezeen.com/2020/04/13/face-shields-coronavirus-apple-foster/


He hasn't, but, knowing him, he wouldn't want that either, just because it's "different". And also harder to carry around and remember to have with you. He's doing what he needs to. He just likes to complain! LOL!

...Also, quite honestly, I'm not sure those should be encouraged. As an add-on protection for the eyes, or for babies too young to wear a mask, fine. But I am not at ALL sure they contain germs (or protect you from anything but a straight-on spray) as well as a mask.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Some neighbors are circulating petitions to recall him and they are getting a lot of support. They say this whole thing is a politically motivated hoax to undermine the White House.
> 
> It's a conundrum.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I just don't understand this. How can ANYONE believe that a *WORLDWIDE PANDEMIC* is a political hoax to get the president of ONE COUNTRY out of office? Do they really think we are THAT important to the rest of the world?


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> Do they really think we are THAT important to the rest of the world?


The answer is YES in my neck of the woods. The White Nationalist movement is very active here.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> ...Also, quite honestly, I'm not sure those should be encouraged. As an add-on protection for the eyes, or for babies too young to wear a mask, fine. But I am not at ALL sure they contain germs (or protect you from anything but a straight-on spray) as well as a mask.


My understanding is that CDC says that face shields are not a protective device for virus spread and should only be worn WITH a face mask.

Ricky's Popi


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> My understanding is that CDC says that face shields are not a protective device for virus spread and should only be worn WITH a face mask.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


This is what I understand, too.

However, if 90% of people were wearing masks, it would prevent so much of the spread that allowing 10% (probably much less) of people to wear face shields instead would be relatively safe, and certainly more safe than no protection at all, provided hygiene and social distancing measures are employed. If we were working towards a common goal, we could make reasonable compromises. Like with the concrete guy, I can't imagine wearing a mask while pouring concrete, isn't that labor intensive? But I also think it's professional and responsible to carry and mask when talking with clients, and to practice good hygiene during the job. If those things aren't possible, it seems like there are ways to work that out, like delaying the project, or carefully planning it so people aren't nearby, etc. It's really hard to problem solve with someone if they don't see a problem.

I'm really glad he called you. I don't know how contact tracing works where you are, but here there are teams that do it for privacy reasons. I appreciate that he did take responsibility for that instead of letting time pass waiting for the health department to make the contact.

I'm so glad you don't have covid, but I hope whatever you were sick with is passing! It's a difficult time right now to be sick with anything.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> I think it's good we've got a lot of styles to choose from. The problem with the pleated ones is that I've found that I HAVE to iron them after washing, or they just end up inside my mouth! And I haven't ironed ANYTHING in so long that I had to order a new iron on Amazon. Not a huge big deal, but... REALLY?!?! LOL!


Me too, DD prefers the contoured style.

We'll probably sew some at some point, now that school will likely open with masks, at least for DD. DS won't be able to go to school unless his health improves. It worked out that I ordered many different styles, though, because now we know what everyone prefers, and we can copy those.

I don't know if they treated them, but random pack of pleated masks from Old Navy come right out of the wash pleated! The other pleated masks I have washed on the sanitize/steam cycle of the washing machine and smoothed out to dry on the counter. DH likes those, too. The contoured ones are usually too short for his face.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm comfortable with wearing masks since that was often necessary when I was working. I've ordered a lot of different masks since this all began. Several I just threw out after receiving them. These are the ones that are my favorites. I ordered a packs of surgical masks and KN95 from Dream Hug which I like. The KN95 is five layers and fits closely to the face. It's great if you breathing issues. The surgical masks are like the pleated homemade ones. I would use those for going for a walk, but I don't feel they offer much protection in an enclosed spaced like going to the grocery store. My favorite every day ones are fabric from Lesley Evers and Amy Kuschel. They are very well made, three layers, antimicrobial, filter fabric and fit close to the face. I've ordered five and they are delivered within two days because they are locally made. Wearing a mask is such a small inconvenience to prevent getting sick and possible death. 
Last week I had a dental hygiene appointment. I was contemplating canceling. Then I was sent two protocol videos to watch before the appointment. The hygienist looked like she was wearing a hazmat suit. The room is fogged with Hypochlorous acid. I got fogged on the way out too! 🤣 Life has changed!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Heather's said:


> I'm comfortable with wearing masks since that was often necessary when I was working.


DOH! :doh: Why didn't I think about asking the face mask expert a long time ago?!

I just ordered a couple of the Dream Hug N-95 washable face masks. I love the "Darth Vader" kind of look to them - very masculine.

Take no offense, but the masks from Kuschel or Evers just didn't fit with the look I am after.

Thanks Heather. when you see me with my Dream Hug mask, you will recognize me a block away! :grin2:

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> The answer is YES in my neck of the woods. The White Nationalist movement is very active here.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


SMH


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> My understanding is that CDC says that face shields are not a protective device for virus spread and should only be worn WITH a face mask.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


That makes sense to me...


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> DOH! :doh: Why didn't I think about asking the face mask expert a long time ago?!
> 
> I just ordered a couple of the Dream Hug N-95 washable face masks. I love the "Darth Vader" kind of look to them - very masculine.
> 
> ...


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Heather's said:


> I'm comfortable with wearing masks since that was often necessary when I was working. I've ordered a lot of different masks since this all began. Several I just threw out after receiving them. These are the ones that are my favorites. I ordered a packs of surgical masks and KN95 from Dream Hug which I like. The KN95 is five layers and fits closely to the face. It's great if you breathing issues. The surgical masks are like the pleated homemade ones. I would use those for going for a walk, but I don't feel they offer much protection in an enclosed spaced like going to the grocery store. My favorite every day ones are fabric from Lesley Evers and Amy Kuschel. They are very well made, three layers, antimicrobial, filter fabric and fit close to the face. I've ordered five and they are delivered within two days because they are locally made.


Thanks for sharing this!



Heather's said:


> Wearing a mask is such a small inconvenience to prevent getting sick and possible death.


I completely agree.

I just realized it might have sounded like I don't think they're that important, that's not what I meant. It's more that I feel like if the reasons for people not wearing masks were legitimate, and not just rationalization, we could come together and work those issues out. It's impossible to resolve a problem that's been turned into an entirely different problem because of cognitive dissonance. I hope that when I look back on this in 20 years, I can say that I was willing to do hard things, and didn't contribute to the problem by being reactionary or oppositional.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I hope that when I look back on this in 20 years,


I hope I can look back on ANYTHING in 20 years! :violin: The good news, I look young for my age, the bad news is I am 20 years older than I look! :|

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Me too, DD prefers the contoured style.
> 
> We'll probably sew some at some point, now that school will likely open with masks, at least for DD. DS won't be able to go to school unless his health improves. It worked out that I ordered many different styles, though, because now we know what everyone prefers, and we can copy those.
> 
> I don't know if they treated them, but random pack of pleated masks from Old Navy come right out of the wash pleated! The other pleated masks I have washed on the sanitize/steam cycle of the washing machine and smoothed out to dry on the counter. DH likes those, too. The contoured ones are usually too short for his face.


I have another friend with one child who has a normal immune system and another who is very immune compromised. They are really struggling with whether they should take a chance on letting the healthy one go back to school. She is in HS, and is VERY aware of the risks to her sister, and SHE is questioning whether she should go back at least as much as her parents. She says she knows how hard it is to buckle down and pay attention to remote learning, but if the option is that or taking a chance on bringing this home to her family... Tough decisions.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> I have another friend with one child who has a normal immune system and another who is very immune compromised. They are really struggling with whether they should take a chance on letting the healthy one go back to school. She is in HS, and is VERY aware of the risks to her sister, and SHE is questioning whether she should go back at least as much as her parents. She says she knows how hard it is to buckle down and pay attention to remote learning, but if the option is that or taking a chance on bringing this home to her family... Tough decisions.


It IS a tough choice. On paper, the school is opening safely with some really smart precautions in place. But our community is really polarized on masks. Our county infection rate is very high but our immediate community rate is very, very low, so there is a false sense of security. The plans also can't represent whether there will be a culture of compliance among the students, and whether or not the teachers and administration take it seriously or go through the motions while rolling their eyes. I'm hoping as we get closer, we'll have a better idea, because that's my biggest concern. If the majority of people are cautious and careful, DD is germaphobic enough to make good decisions. The impression I'm getting is that the teachers and school itself ARE taking it seriously and may not open if pressure from parents to "normalize" continues.

Our plan at this point is to do everything we can to support DD back in school, but she knows it might not happen, and her perspective is good. Those with immune compromised/high risk family members do have a choice. Her GPA went from 3.7 to 4.4 because there were less social distractions, so I'm not worried about academics. But her personality is also suffering the most of any of our family members from the lack of social interaction, to the point that I'm concerned. She has stayed connected to friends through social media, but this whole situation has really reiterated to me that it isn't a substitute for real, in person interaction. Especially for young teenage girls, it's too easy to become petty and mean. And quite frankly, awkward and self centered. These are normal stages for teenagers to work through, but it is very difficult to do that without peers. As adults, 5 months of social isolation is hard, but to a teenager, we're starting to reach the point where these kids are going to have problems. Although, I think a lot of families have already started socializing again. If she stays home, we are going to need to prioritize some kind of social life, and I'm not sure how we can do that, either. It's going to be harder to find other people to set up something more organized, like Zoom, once school starts. I've been reading about bubbles, and watching how that is working in other countries.

At the end of the day, even a teenager with depression and social problems as a result of covid, is better than losing someone. My concern is that as time passes, and most people start to move on, there are less resources to address these problems, and my kids are most definitely not alone.

With DS, it's not even a question.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

One other thought just to throw out there... and I DO know how hard it is to watch your children struggle. My 91-year-old stepmom was at our house on Sunday for dinner. (she is part of OUR "bubble"... for the same reason; she lives alone, and there is only SO much isolation you can subject someone of that age to!) She is from Latvia, and just before WWII they had to leave Latvia very suddenly when the Russians invaded. She was in the equivalent of middle school. The whole family had to pack p in the middle of the night, with only the clothes they could carry and flee. First into Germany, later to the US. That entire generation of Europen children had spotty or no education for several years, and spotty or no social activities, and the horrors they lived through, night after night leaving their beds to run down into air raid shelters... (My Dad grew up in a family of (naturalized)American citizens trapped in Berlin during this same period) 

Many people died. But for those who survived, the children finished their educations and went on to live full, successful lives, and become our parents. This is a very hard time for our kids. It is different from what other generations have gone through, but with our love, protection and support, they will get through it too, and I believe they will be all the stronger people for having banded together through this time of international crisis.

The photo below was taken by my Dad, at the end of the war, close to his apartment. He was 17. The Americans were in Berlin by then, but it was before they had been able to arrange to get back to the US.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> One other thought just to throw out there... and I DO know how hard it is to watch your children struggle. My 91-year-old stepmom was at our house on Sunday for dinner. (she is part of OUR "bubble"... for the same reason; she lives alone, and there is only SO much isolation you can subject someone of that age to!) She is from Latvia, and just before WWII they had to leave Latvia very suddenly when the Russians invaded. She was in the equivalent of middle school. The whole family had to pack p in the middle of the night, with only the clothes they could carry and flee. First into Germany, later to the US. That entire generation of Europen children had spotty or no education for several years, and spotty or no social activities, and the horrors they lived through, night after night leaving their beds to run down into air raid shelters... (My Dad grew up in a family of (naturalized)American citizens trapped in Berlin during this same period)
> 
> Many people died. But for those who survived, the children finished their educations and went on to live full, successful lives, and become our parents. This is a very hard time for our kids. It is different from what other generations have gone through, but with our love, protection and support, they will get through it too, and I believe they will be all the stronger people for having banded together through this time of international crisis.
> 
> The photo below was taken by my Dad, at the end of the war, close to his apartment. He was 17. The Americans were in Berlin by then, but it was before they had been able to arrange to get back to the US.


It's all about perspective. Whatever we decide in the fall, it's a short period of time. My hope is that we aren't in such a hurry to move on that we don't forget to address the long term impact of what's happening now.

My concerns are also likely magnified by seeing the impact of chronic absence on DS. But, we are talking about chronic absence his whole life, and that's not a fair comparison, so I have to make sure I'm not letting that skew my decisions.

To be honest, I wish they would just make the decision for us by keeping school closed for a little while longer, but it's an unpopular view. Otherwise it's a choice between the risks of school and the risks of being one of very few online. At least when everyone was doing it, they were able to prioritize online learning, and people were coming together to make the best of it. But I feel really selfish saying that, because I know online school was an enormous hardship for a lot of families.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> To be honest, I wish they would just make the decision for us by keeping school closed for a little while longer, but it's an unpopular view.


I'm not sure it is an unpopular National view. I saw one recent National survey that indicated 75% were in favor of keeping the schools closed. But take polls for what they are worth, which can vary. I'm just glad I'm not in your position, kind of like a "Sophie's Choice." We're rooting for you.

Ricky's Popi


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## cinquecento (Apr 23, 2020)

So glad you tested negative. What a scary and stressful week for you! I knew you could get false negatives on the test, but I didn't realize you could ge4t false positives on the tests too. Good to know. Stay safe!


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

Apparently some dogs are afraid of masked wearers, even owner. Kojo looks at me very strangely and didn't want to come. Part could be the mask muffles owner's voice.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

LUVmyHava said:


> Apparently some dogs are afraid of masked wearers, even owner. Kojo looks at me very strangely and didn't want to come. Part could be the mask muffles owner's voice.


Ricky gave me an odd, curious look the first couple of times I wore the mask, but was never afraid. Now, he doesn't even bother to notice me or anyone else. He has adapted well.

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

cinquecento said:


> So glad you tested negative. What a scary and stressful week for you! I knew you could get false negatives on the test, but I didn't realize you could ge4t false positives on the tests too. Good to know. Stay safe!


Vermont got a cluster of something like 65 false positives a week or so ago. It was in the news this morning. They retested about 70 people that were tested at one test center, and only about 5 of them were actually positive. And it was the same situation with the kinds of tests that Popi was talking about.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

LUVmyHava said:


> Apparently some dogs are afraid of masked wearers, even owner. Kojo looks at me very strangely and didn't want to come. Part could be the mask muffles owner's voice.


All the sports people I know are practicing with masks on, because they know their dogs will need to perform with people around them with masks on before this is all over.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Ricky gave me an odd, curious look the first couple of times I wore the mask, but was never afraid. Now, he doesn't even bother to notice me or anyone else. He has adapted well.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Kodi doesn't mind masks. (none of mine do) but he DOES mind the "blue space lady" at the vets office when he goes for his water treadmill therapy. When the tech comes to get him from the car, she is in FULL PPE... head to toe blue gown, booties, mask, glove, cap, face shield... He does NOT want to go with her!!! For the first few weeks, he tried to climb me, and the only way he would go is if she carried him. Eventually, grilled chicken hot the better of him, and he would go with her for the chicken. (Inside, he's fine, because his vet just wears a mask, and he knows her well)

This week, it was a different tech inside the "space lady suit" and we were back to him needing to be carried in, chicken or not, poor boy!


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## kerrilea (Mar 15, 2019)

Ricky's Popi, I'm very happy to hear that your household tested negative! Yay!!! This stuff is scary. No doubt! Here's a bit of my crazy Covid life as a lot of people don't know anyone with Covid. My 84 yr. old Uncle died of Covid April 6th while rehabbing in a Life Care facility here in Eastern Washington. He had diabetes and a heart condition. Such a sad way to go with no one with him especially since my aunt had passed 2 months earlier. In March we followed the rules and locked ourselves away yet, our household and my daughter's family of 4 experienced Covid-19 starting June 13th. Myself (63), my daughter (40) were fortunate to have pretty mild symptoms and if I wasn't aware of "Covid" I would have gone back to work after 3 days. The worst symptom was fatigue for 3 weeks. We isolated the whole time. Grandsons, 11 & 7, tested positive with no symptoms. The 4 of us did the PCR test. Son-In-Law with same symptoms as my daughter and I tested negative twice in one week using the rapid test. WHAT!!! Son's family of 6 all tested negative as well as my mother-in-law, who is 82. My husband didn't get sick enough to bother to test, but just tested positive for antibodies. Mind you, we've all been together in our little family bubble through all of this shutdown doing the right thing and it still got us. We were shocked. Sneaky stuff. As for masks... I get dizzy wearing a mask, but I always have and still do wear one when I'm out. I think 3-4 weeks of mask wearing could help and it can't hurt. Monday I'm donating convalescent plasma. At least I found something positive to do. Take that "RONA!" Here's my take on Covid-19...many of you my age might remember the "Kilroy Was Here." character? Well, that's how I view this Covid crap. He's lying in wait peeking at us. Go away Kilroy so we can get back to some semblance of normalcy!!! Take care all you Havanese parents!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*masks*



LUVmyHava said:


> Apparently some dogs are afraid of masked wearers, even owner. Kojo looks at me very strangely and didn't want to come. Part could be the mask muffles owner's voice.


Perry does NOT like the masks. He doesn't see many, but our guards do wear them when they're patroling the compound. He doesn't mind when our female guard has one on (she works during the day which could also factor in) but he does NOT like our male guard who works at night in a mask. I think it's a combination of (1)man (2)dark (3)mask that does it, but he totally freaks out (but will also go down the stairs to stand at the gate and bark at him through the gate as well)


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

It has been 10 days since Momi got a Covid test at the drug store, still no results! :frown2: At this point it becomes immaterial since she will pass the 14 day window in a few days. Total nonsense!

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> It has been 10 days since Momi got a Covid test at the drug store, still no results! :frown2: At this point it becomes immaterial since she will pass the 14 day window in a few days. Total nonsense!
> 
> Ricky's Popi


That's what I don't get with what I'm hearing about the testing in California right now. I'm not sure I even understand the point. YOu can't possibly do contract tracing at that point, the person, if they are ethical, even without symptoms will have isolate. If they re NOT ethical and turn out to be an asymptomatic carrier have already spread it far and wide. If they were coming down with it, they are EITHER on the mend, or they could be dead or at least in the hospital. So what's the point?


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Sorry I don't have time to read this thread in detail, but I wanted to wish you all the best in these challenging times and also to share with you what a colleague/friend recently told me. We are both teachers, and we know it can be very hard for businesses, parents, students, and teachers to have to do school remotely. Someone said to Leah that (whatever aspect of this whole thing) is hard, and she said she thought, "Of course it's hard! It's a $%^& pandemic!" Her delivery of that line was so funny! Hang in there, everyone!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

And DH recently read me something from FB ... A woman entered a coffee shop without a mask. The masked employee said, "Ma'am, you need to wear a mask in here." The woman replied, "Why? There's no one here." I feel sorry for the people working minimum wage jobs who are finding themselves having to ask people to wear a mask!


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

ShamaMama said:


> And DH recently read me something from FB ... A woman entered a coffee shop without a mask. The masked employee said, "Ma'am, you need to wear a mask in here." The woman replied, "Why? There's no one here." I feel sorry for the people working minimum wage jobs who are finding themselves having to ask people to wear a mask!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Unbelievable!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Momi still doesn’t have symptoms? Are you feeling better? Just because it isn’t covid doesn’t mean it’s fun to be sick!

Yesterday, I had to run 4 errands, and it was the first time I have needed to go to more than one place on a Saturday in months. Everyone was wearing masks! It was a huge difference compared to the last couple of weeks. I didn’t realize how anxious it was making me until I felt that relief!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*Masks*



EvaE1izabeth said:


> Momi still doesn't have symptoms? Are you feeling better? Just because it isn't covid doesn't mean it's fun to be sick!
> 
> Yesterday, I had to run 4 errands, and it was the first time I have needed to go to more than one place on a Saturday in months. Everyone was wearing masks! It was a huge difference compared to the last couple of weeks. I didn't realize how anxious it was making me until I felt that relief!


Yes - the anxiety! We've started shopping more at one of the grocery stores who has been taking it seriously since the lockdown was lifted here and basically stopped at the one that was observing it the least. Even though now stores have started making it a requirement/ not letting people into the store without them.

We've gone out to eat once since lockdown lifted and I felt so relaxed because the restaurant was taking it really seriously.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*COVID*



Ricky Ricardo said:


> The COUNTY I live in is 2.5 million and mostly rural. We have 31,000 cases and 589 deaths and the numbers are rising exponentially. We are running out of ICU beds.
> 
> Compare this to the U.S. whose citizens think they have the most advanced society with the best health care system on the face of the earth! Your restrictions would result in mass hysteria here locally.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


You're right, I know that the restrictions we've had here would have mass hysteria AND violence in the US. Good thing I still have 3 months before we have to decide if we're returning!

On a sad front - we have had our first 2 COVID-related deaths here. The worst part is that neither of them were already tested and in the hospital - they were both in the community and one of them had been treated for pneumonia before she died - and no one thought 'gee, maybe we should test for COVID" - so it's pretty obvious things are worse here than the numbers are showing, but still not a fraction of what it's like there!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*no iron*



krandall said:


> I think it's good we've got a lot of styles to choose from. The problem with the pleated ones is that I've found that I HAVE to iron them after washing, or they just end up inside my mouth! And I haven't ironed ANYTHING in so long that I had to order a new iron on Amazon. Not a huge big deal, but... REALLY?!?! LOL!


I know I shouldn't say this - but that's not a problem we have (here) - as I type, my housekeeper is ironing my masks (I did wash them myself over the weekend since I had to handwash them).

Ironing is definitely a problem for us when we don't have a housekeeper though. Generally we make sure most of our clothes don't need it, but while we can split the rest of the chores, both of us detest ironing


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*what people believe*



krandall said:


> I just don't understand this. How can ANYONE believe that a *WORLDWIDE PANDEMIC* is a political hoax to get the president of ONE COUNTRY out of office? Do they really think we are THAT important to the rest of the world?


A good number of people seriously believe the world is flat... need I say more?:wink2:


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*schools closed*



Ricky Ricardo said:


> I'm not sure it is an unpopular National view. I saw one recent National survey that indicated 75% were in favor of keeping the schools closed. But take polls for what they are worth, which can vary. I'm just glad I'm not in your position, kind of like a "Sophie's Choice." We're rooting for you.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


One of the problems though with the debate is that it totally leaves out childcare centers from the discussion/ consideration. If people have to go back to work, and if the states say that childcare has to open (and since many centers are at least partially supported by state programs like the food program and subsidized care for low income families - and need the income to pay their staff/ rent/ etc), then where do you think the school age kids are when school isn't open - like now?

My sister and her business partner have 2 centers - and they have a range of kids for babies to 11-12 year olds. No school still means they have to open but now they have those kids for longer hours. During school - if they open fully or partially - they'll still have those kids - but now they'll have to deal with the potential of the kids bringing the virus to the center from the schools.

I just wish more people would add the issue of child care to the debate about schools instead of just assuming it will mean that parents will stay home - many can't - and unless the states close down child care again, it won't happen.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> I know I shouldn't say this - but that's not a problem we have (here) - as I type, my housekeeper is ironing my masks (I did wash them myself over the weekend since I had to handwash them).
> 
> Ironing is definitely a problem for us when we don't have a housekeeper though. Generally we make sure most of our clothes don't need it, but while we can split the rest of the chores, both of us detest ironing


Yeah, no housekeepers here! LOL!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> A good number of people seriously believe the world is flat... need I say more?:wink2:


Sad truth...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> One of the problems though with the debate is that it totally leaves out childcare centers from the discussion/ consideration. If people have to go back to work, and if the states say that childcare has to open (and since many centers are at least partially supported by state programs like the food program and subsidized care for low income families - and need the income to pay their staff/ rent/ etc), then where do you think the school age kids are when school isn't open - like now?
> 
> My sister and her business partner have 2 centers - and they have a range of kids for babies to 11-12 year olds. No school still means they have to open but now they have those kids for longer hours. During school - if they open fully or partially - they'll still have those kids - but now they'll have to deal with the potential of the kids bringing the virus to the center from the schools.
> 
> I just wish more people would add the issue of child care to the debate about schools instead of just assuming it will mean that parents will stay home - many can't - and unless the states close down child care again, it won't happen.


There is no doubt that it is complicated. I kind of liked what AZ decided to do in THAT regard. They left it up to the districts to decide whether they were ready to open GENERALLY, based on the metrics, but said each district had to have at least ONE BUILDING open, with enough space and staff to handle those children who had nowhere else to go. THAT sounds like it might be do-able if handled correctly, if we are not in a condition to need total shut-down.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Melissa Brill said:


> One of the problems though with the debate is that it totally leaves out childcare centers from the discussion/ consideration. If people have to go back to work, and if the states say that childcare has to open (and since many centers are at least partially supported by state programs like the food program and subsidized care for low income families - and need the income to pay their staff/ rent/ etc), then where do you think the school age kids are when school isn't open - like now?
> 
> My sister and her business partner have 2 centers - and they have a range of kids for babies to 11-12 year olds. No school still means they have to open but now they have those kids for longer hours. During school - if they open fully or partially - they'll still have those kids - but now they'll have to deal with the potential of the kids bringing the virus to the center from the schools.
> 
> I just wish more people would add the issue of child care to the debate about schools instead of just assuming it will mean that parents will stay home - many can't - and unless the states close down child care again, it won't happen.


I both agree and disagree with your post because it is a much more complex issue than stated. What happens to those childcare people when they get C-19 transmitted by those children? The Childcare Center has to shut down and there goes that venue for childcare.

Some epidemiologists have stated that if the U.S. just shuts EVERYTHING down and EVERYONE stays home for 4 weeks, we would be well on our way to putting this pandemic behind us. I don't know if that is true, but i do know if we open schools and childcare centers up right now, things are going to get much worse.
Congress is expected to pass some extension of unemployment benefits as well as additional payments to everyone, so they can stay home and care for their children. That will be, "any day now." My daughter works for the State of California and she has to go into her empty office building because she is an essential employee. But her support staff have all been sent home at full pay for almost 6 months now. Doesn't even count toward their vacation accrual. They have been told to provide care for their family and homeschooling where necessary. This is a complete mess through lack of leadership at the White House.

I don't have the answers, but i am in favor of keeping schools and daycare centers closed at this time, which I think is a real shame this has to happen.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> but said each district had to have at least ONE BUILDING open, with enough space and staff to handle those children who had nowhere else to go.


What happens to the staff in that one building if they get infected by the children they care for? Do they import new staff? In my opinion to use healthy adults as cannon fodder for the C-19 virus is a lousy idea. Ain't going to work and a lot of people will die, one is too many.

Ricky's Popi


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> What happens to the staff in that one building if they get infected by the children they care for? Do they import new staff? In my opinion to use healthy adults as cannon fodder for the C-19 virus is a lousy idea. Ain't going to work and a lot of people will die, one is too many.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I noticed our county dashboard shows the highest amount positive test results in the 20-59 age range. Their children will be going to daycare centers and attending school. Unfortunately there is a good chance staff will become infected. I imagine daycare centers will be opening and closing due to the virus.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*child care*



Ricky Ricardo said:


> I both agree and disagree with your post because it is a much more complex issue than stated. What happens to those childcare people when they get C-19 transmitted by those children? The Childcare Center has to shut down and there goes that venue for childcare.
> 
> Some epidemiologists have stated that if the U.S. just shuts EVERYTHING down and EVERYONE stays home for 4 weeks, we would be well on our way to putting this pandemic behind us. I don't know if that is true, but i do know if we open schools and childcare centers up right now, things are going to get much worse.
> Congress is expected to pass some extension of unemployment benefits as well as additional payments to everyone, so they can stay home and care for their children. That will be, "any day now." My daughter works for the State of California and she has to go into her empty office building because she is an essential employee. But her support staff have all been sent home at full pay for almost 6 months now. Doesn't even count toward their vacation accrual. They have been told to provide care for their family and homeschooling where necessary. This is a complete mess through lack of leadership at the White House.
> ...


I agree - but my point is that child care is lumped in with businesses - and the debate about schools opening is limited to actual schools, not childcare centers. So, childcare opens because the government decides that businesses can open (and so if they decide to stay closed they can't pay their staff, lose income, can't pay their rent and will likely have to close the business for good) - but the debate rages on about whether it's safe to open schools and have that many kids in a confined space. I agree that the debate needs to happen - but it should happen with both childcare centers AND schools in the same debate space - otherwise what you will end up with is what you have in many places right now - areas where they're considering keeping schools closed, but childcare has been open and will continue to be open, so it's likely that the kids who are not in school will still be in daycare.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

It has been 14 days since Momi got her Covid test at a big box pharmacy. Still no results. At this point it doesn't matter any more. And they think they can open schools with safeguards? She is fine, I am fine, and Ricky is fine. We are thankful. Time for an ice cold cerveza. :thumb:

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

:cheer2:


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

You can buy a 20 - NK95 Mask from Amazon which is *5 layers *for $45. There's a 5% discount coupon and if you use Amazon Wallet their abot $35. It fits snug and is very breathable. I've made masks and have, also, purchased regular surgical masks. Fortunately, we are retired and only use them for essential trips, so we have plenty and not an upkeep problem.

*No Eating Out for Us. *

I read a story about School Openings where they tried to cite studies, but there aren't any good studies about children getting COVID or passing it.

Everything that's written basically says:

0-10 year old kids don't appear to get COVID easily and don't pass it 
10-19 year olds get COVID and pass it like adults
20-30+ year olds - Highest number of infected COVID rate

Kids 0-10 years are for the most part at home, supervised by parents. So, studies don't really know anything about how COVID affects this age group. They are not out running around. Because they are for the most part isolated .... Kids and elementary teachers can probably safely have in-person school if the schools will reduce class size, allowing for social distancing, open rooms and open up windows. No Masks for kids ... because they are not going to wear them.

Kids ages 11-19 are out and about and are going to come into contact with the disease more than younger kids. However, this age group (especially boys) tend to play computer games and don't run around town partying and meeting up with friends as much as their parents did before computer games and social media. If schools could put this age group in Small Bubbles of 15 and have enough room space for social distancing...in person schools might work. Again, schools need to open windows and there needs to space.

THE PROBLEM WITH In- Person SCHOOLS: $$$$$$ ... For the most part ...Schools don't have enough money to safely open.

The 20-30+ year olds are the one who are the most exposed and most positive. Because they are out with groups of friends, having a good time and going to bars. They're bringing it home to parents, aunts, uncles and grandparents. *COLLEGE KIDS are a disaster waiting to happen. Colleges should be Online Only.*

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08B4B8JXT/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3BH93R8J4JYOQ&psc=1


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Mikki said:


> The 20-30+ year olds are the one who are the most exposed and most positive. Because they are out with groups of friends, having a good time and going to bars. They're bringing it home to parents, aunts, uncles and grandparents. *COLLEGE KIDS are a disaster waiting to happen. Colleges should be Online Only.*


*

On the one hand, we're THRILLED that my niece is going to be attending a college in our town. We can't wait to see more of her. On the other hand, she's moving into her DORM a week from Monday. We're nervous for her (and us!) She will be wearing a mask if she ever comes into our home ...*


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Here's a very recent study ... The younger the kid's are the more efficient and contagious they are at spreading it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willia...19-more-efficiently-than-adults/#2ba46e6c19fd


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Our county just approved an ordinance that allows businesses and people to be fined for not following the current health order or for not wearing a mask. For people, the first offense is $100, $200 for the second and $500 for additional offenses within the same year. Business fines, $250 to $3,000 depending on prior warnings and the violation.😷


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*study*



Mikki said:


> Here's a very recent study ... The younger the kid's are the more efficient and contagious they are at spreading it.
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/willia...19-more-efficiently-than-adults/#2ba46e6c19fd


According to a friend of mine who is in public health, that study has some serious flaws, but I did find it an interesting read and something that might need more research.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Here is a Hepa Filter Mask that allows people to see faces. What do you thing? I have a DA friend who wants to see juror's faces during a trial. If these work, they'll sell out fast.

https://www.visionn.store/products/...4YUkO7apFAg6ZUaVCzJyS7wznzwx9UR1eLeO_Z5IROUZQ


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*clear mask*



Mikki said:


> Here is a Hepa Filter Mask that allows people to see faces. What do you thing? I have a DA friend who wants to see juror's faces during a trial. If these work, they'll sell out fast.
> 
> https://www.visionn.store/products/...4YUkO7apFAg6ZUaVCzJyS7wznzwx9UR1eLeO_Z5IROUZQ


I have so many questions  I would be curious to know if it's clear plastic then how do you breath (the filter seems to be at the bottom of it?) and to see a video to see if it just fogs up whenever you breath anyway so defeats the purpose.

The cost is high for a lot of people to buy them, but I really like the idea

Otherwise, I wouldn't necessarily want to wear it but would want everyone around me to


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Melissa Brill said:


> I have so many questions  I would be curious to know if it's clear plastic then how do you breath (the filter seems to be at the bottom of it?) and to see a video to see if it just fogs up whenever you breath anyway so defeats the purpose.
> 
> The cost is high for a lot of people to buy them, but I really like the idea
> 
> Otherwise, I wouldn't necessarily want to wear it but would want everyone around me to


Of course their breathable according to the ad. :x The best protection is a mask that fits snugly around the face, but few people have masks that are fitted. Most everyone wears losing fitting paper or material masts. These are probably tighter but not perfect.

You need a mask to fit snug around the nose to help with fogging.* If you will rub soap on your glasses, let it dry and then polish your glasses with a cloth, they won't fog. * I've tried it and it works.

The Face Shields don't protect you unless you have wear a Mask. My DA friend wears a Face Shield and I told her that isn't protecting you or anyone else. She needs to see peoples, which would be nice for everyone. It's going to hard to find jurors who done claim they're high risk.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I just read an article about this 10 minutes ago! A local professor and his students have reviewed over 130 mask studies over the past couple of months and found that masks are even more effective than anyone expected them to be.


I read a few NIH papers on Pubmed that says the contrary. Single layer cotton masks allow 95% of particles to penetrate mask. Medical/Surgical masks allow 44% of particles to penetrate mask. Cotton masks must be washed after every use. Medical masks should be worn only couple hours and then thrown away. The longer you wear a medical mask, the more damp it becomes with breathing. Viruses can live on damp mask up to 7 hours. One paper found that after four washings the pores in cotton mask were twice as big making them totally ineffective even in double layers.

The biggest issue is that most people don't wear masks correctly. In local Sam's Club I saw 5 employees wearing mask just covering mouth and 1 as chin guard. I don't know who is telling people mask doesn't have to cover nose as well as mouth. You must wash or sanitize your hands every time you touch the outside of mask. Any virus/bacteria on outside of mask is transferred to hands. The cashier at Sam's Club pulled up his mask over nose after I pointed out it must cover nose and mouth. But grasped his mask in the middle to pull it up and immediately touched my grocery items. I see people scratching nose, constantly touching outside of mask to adjust. Lax hand washing makes mask-wearing more likely to spread virus.


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## LUVmyHava (Apr 16, 2019)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32329337/
Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks, ACS Nano. 2020 May 26;14(5):6339-6347.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2005.long
Covid-19: are face masks a good long term strategy?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6599448/
Optical microscopic study of surface morphology and filtering efficiency of face masks


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

I like the concept of the Hepa Filter Mask that could be good for certain situations. The problem I see is the exhaust valve. It would only protect the person wearing it. If someone wearing it had the virus it could be transmitted to others. If your wearing an N95 with the exhaust valve it must be cover before going into a grocery stores around here. Without the valve it would fog up.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

LUVmyHava said:


> I read a few NIH papers on Pubmed that says the contrary. Single layer cotton masks allow 95% of particles to penetrate mask. Medical/Surgical masks allow 44% of particles to penetrate mask. Cotton masks must be washed after every use. Medical masks should be worn only couple hours and then thrown away. The longer you wear a medical mask, the more damp it becomes with breathing. Viruses can live on damp mask up to 7 hours. One paper found that after four washings the pores in cotton mask were twice as big making them totally ineffective even in double layers.
> 
> The biggest issue is that most people don't wear masks correctly. In local Sam's Club I saw 5 employees wearing mask just covering mouth and 1 as chin guard. I don't know who is telling people mask doesn't have to cover nose as well as mouth. You must wash or sanitize your hands every time you touch the outside of mask. Any virus/bacteria on outside of mask is transferred to hands. The cashier at Sam's Club pulled up his mask over nose after I pointed out it must cover nose and mouth. But grasped his mask in the middle to pull it up and immediately touched my grocery items. I see people scratching nose, constantly touching outside of mask to adjust. Lax hand washing makes mask-wearing more likely to spread virus.


*Your information is Old News. *

*The New News is Masks work.* Yes, they need to be worn over the nose and mouth. Yes! some masks are better than others. More layers are better than a Single Layer.

COVID is spread through the air. Enclosed places and poor ventilation spreads COVID more easily than being outdoors.

Touching surfaces is no longer considered a High Priority or a big worry in spreading the virus. Yes! you should wash hands and use handsanitizers if you're worried about touching surfaces. Probably ... Wouldn't be a good idea to Stick You Fingers in your Mouth. But, touching surfaces is not how COVID is being spread.

COVID Aerosole Droplets is how it is spread and is especially dangerous indoors in confined rooms with poor ventilation.

People should social distance and outdoor meets ups in small groups is less risky.

There was a Hairdresser who had symptoms, was sick and had COVID. She need the money and went to work . The hairdresser passed COVID to a co-worker during a lunch break. All hairdressers in the salon were required to wear Masks. Customers were required to wear Masks. The hair dressers worked on 140 clients spending at least 30 minutes in close contact. In addition, 200-300 customers came into the salon.

Contact Tacking is being done on this Case. It is being written up. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON THEY WORKED ON OR WHO CAME INTO THE SALE BE CAME POSITIVE.

YES!!! MASKS WORK. Any Mask is better than no Mask and provides protection. Contaminated surfaces are no longer considered a big issue.

Everyone touches their Masks. And the Virus doesn't live forever. It dies within a few days. If you lay your Mask out in the sun it dies very quickly on the dash board of your car.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

LUVmyHava said:


> I read a few NIH papers on Pubmed that says the contrary. Single layer cotton masks allow 95% of particles to penetrate mask. Medical/Surgical masks allow 44% of particles to penetrate mask. Cotton masks must be washed after every use. Medical masks should be worn only couple hours and then thrown away. The longer you wear a medical mask, the more damp it becomes with breathing. Viruses can live on damp mask up to 7 hours. One paper found that after four washings the pores in cotton mask were twice as big making them totally ineffective even in double layers.
> 
> The biggest issue is that most people don't wear masks correctly. In local Sam's Club I saw 5 employees wearing mask just covering mouth and 1 as chin guard. I don't know who is telling people mask doesn't have to cover nose as well as mouth. You must wash or sanitize your hands every time you touch the outside of mask. Any virus/bacteria on outside of mask is transferred to hands. The cashier at Sam's Club pulled up his mask over nose after I pointed out it must cover nose and mouth. But grasped his mask in the middle to pull it up and immediately touched my grocery items. I see people scratching nose, constantly touching outside of mask to adjust. Lax hand washing makes mask-wearing more likely to spread virus.


My understanding is that they were reviewing studies and also comparing transmission rates. They found that even cotton masks with a weave that should allow particles to transmit based on particle size, still dramatically reduced transmission. I can't find the article since this was a couple of weeks ago, but I took away two things from it. The first is that transmission is affected by many factors, so there may be some cases where there is still transmission with masks, but it would still be a huge reduction if the majority of people wore them. The other is that when people wear masks, their behavior changes. Whether it means they go to less places, don't touch their face, use sanitizer more, I don't know.

I do empathize with those uncomfortable wearing a mask. Now that the shortages are somewhat resolved, though, it's much easier to find masks more like N95 masks that are more comfortable and filter the air better so they aren't as hot, don't fog, etc. They are more expensive, though, which is difficult because those who would benefit the most are likely in less of a position to spend more on masks (fixed income, medical expenses, etc.)

I think any mask worn properly is better than none at all. But, I would rather a person not wear a mask at all than wear one barely on their face. At least then I'll notice they aren't wearing one and I can be more cautious.

When the push to wear masks intensified in my state a month or so ago, I was so relieved because there was a big increase in the number of people wearing them, and wearing them properly. It's only been a short time and that is over. Almost everyone is wearing masks, but now tons of people are barely wearing them. Like you said, as a chin guard. I hate to generalize, but I'm really disappointed in the young college age women, because they are by far the least compliant. They wear their masks over their mouths so it looks like they're wearing one until you get closer and then it's clear the masks is beneath their nose. I passed 2 people at maybe 4 feet in an aisle that wasn't quite wide enough, thinking they were wearing masks and staying as far as possible, but realized they weren't too late. After someone reached across me to grab something off a shelf and I realized her mask was on her chin, I about lost it. All 3 times were on the same day, in a store that requires masks. Now I'm back to avoiding stores and waiting at the end of the aisle. I'm sure none of these incidents had exposed me to anything, the problem is that it tells me people don't care.

The plan for my kids' school has changed and there is no accommodation for passing time. Really discouraging. In my sister's state, they have the choice to stay home, but the fee for online school is incredibly high, prohibitively so, especially if they have multiple children.

I'm feeling negative about all of it today. I can't wait for this to be over.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I do empathize with those uncomfortable wearing a mask.
> 
> When the push to wear masks intensified in my state a month or so ago, I was so relieved because there was a big increase in the number of people wearing them, and wearing them properly. It's only been a short time and that is over. Almost everyone is wearing masks, but now tons of people are barely wearing them. Like you said, as a chin guard. I hate to generalize, but I'm really disappointed in the young college age women, because they are by far the least compliant. They wear their masks over their mouths so it looks like they're wearing one until you get closer and then it's clear the masks is beneath their nose. I passed 2 people at maybe 4 feet in an aisle that wasn't quite wide enough, thinking they were wearing masks and staying as far as possible, but realized they weren't too late. After someone reached across me to grab something off a shelf and I realized her mask was on her chin, I about lost it. All 3 times were on the same day, in a store that requires masks. Now I'm back to avoiding stores and waiting at the end of the aisle. I'm sure none of these incidents had exposed me to anything, the problem is that it tells me people don't care.
> 
> ...


The last three weeks my old coworkers father has been hospitalized with COVID. Last night he passed away. It is so heartbreaking...
Masks are uncomfortable to wear, but really a very minor inconvenience. I think a lot of people still believe COVID is just the flu. I've been told that even with a mild case there is the possibility of life long heart and lung problems. I think this year Fall will not be good with both the flu and COVID. 
It has been decided to have distance learning here. For parents that work there will be on-site day care 8:30am-4:30pm. There will be pods of 12-15 children with two teachers. There is an option of Part-time 2-3 days or Full-time 5 days a week with a monthly fee.


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