# He did it AGAIN!!!! Pooped in his crate



## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

AAaaaaaahhhh! Charlie pooped in his crate again during the night. I took him out three times last evening, last time at 10:30 PM..and we found him in a mess at 5am this morning.

I took his stool to the vet today and said "test it for everything under the sun and then some..I don't care what it costs me"..so, they're doing any test they can to see if they can find anything. It is not diarrhea, just very soft.

I'm so frustrated..this was a brand new crate.

I just left him this morning for grooming and because of his matts they had to shave him..I'm afraid to go see him.

I've never had a dog with hair..only labs and a beagle. I am learning a LOT

I will persevere..I'm just so frustrated. One woman can only deal with so much dog poop!

Julie


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Hang in there - I can imagine that it is VERY frustrating. What if you set your alarm for like 1am & took him out. Maybe he would poop outside and not in the crate. Do you have a "potty party"


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

sorry - will continue, hit the wrong button. 

Do you have a potty party outside when he does go outside? Give him a treat every time he goes pee or poop outside!! That worked for my guys. 
Good luck.


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## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

*I guess I could set my alarm..*

shouldn't he be able to make it through the night at 6 months old?

I have not tried the potty party thing. In fact, he hardly ever gets treats..he doesn't seem to like them..just plays with them.

I must have a really weird dog! lol I have spent a fortune on treats.

Julie


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I think Shelby needs a "potty party". She peed on the rug last night. Pooped on the peed pad, and then peed on the rug. :frusty:


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## Sunnygirl (Jun 1, 2007)

Julie - he's certainly not weird because he doesn't like treats. My pup (just 10.5 weeks old) isn't wild about most treats. He turns up his nose at freeze dried liver, for instance. He does like cheese, though. I hope you figure out the poop problem - that must be so frustrating.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

How late does he eat in the evening?

I feed Gucci between 4-5 pm and she needs to poop around 6-7. In the morning she always goes poop about an hour after she wakes up. How long after feeding does he need to go? If you are free feeding, I would start making a chart of when he eats and what time he poops, so you can get an idea on the time frame and see if that will give you an idea to work with.

Will he use puppy pads? You could try putting the crate in an xpen, and leaving it open so he can come out of the crate and go on the pad?

But I didn't crate train, so that might be a "no no" and defeat the whole purpose? 

If Gucci needs to go at night (which is seldom these days) she'll jump off the bed and I keep a potty pad in the bathroom at night. She used it last night for the first time in 3 weeks. But usually, I wake up around 2 to use the bathroom and if she wakes up and follows me...I'll take her outside.

I hope there isn't something medically wrong, then again.....that may be easily resolved and fix the problem. I know you are bound to be frustrated. 

Kara


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

I agree potty party. Monte has been a bear in training not like Riley at all. I started having bigger potty parties and that seems to be working. Monte loves when I start dancing around with excitement but my neighbors are beginning to think I’m nuts.

For potty treats try some chicken or cheese something really good that you would already have at home maybe even a piece of a hot dog.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

> shouldn't he be able to make it through the night at 6 months old?


 Should he? Yes. Is he? Obviously not. 
At least make sure there is no medical reason for this. Then, you're going to have to train him, and treat him like a baby, taking baby steps with him.

This is frustrating and slow progress, but it will pay off in the end.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

There is bound to be a treat that he'll love to help train him. The treats REALLY do keep them motivated.

Gucci does not like "dog" treats, but will work for "human food", cheese, turkey, chicken, etc.

The only dog treat she'll touch is the chicken jerky, which is actually real chicken....so I doubt that counts! lol

Oh, and peanut butter is a favorite.

My neighbor and cleaning lady have made out on all the treats I've bought that she won't eat!!! lol, They have enough to last them months!

Kara


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## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

*He eats between 5-6..no later than 6:30 ever.*

He almost always poops within an hour after eating..and usually again later in the evening.

I tried him in an xpen with the pee pads a while back..he crumples up the pads and still makes a mess about of everything. I did that when he had all the parasite problems because the poor thing was having sooooo many accidents and it wasn't his fault..he couldn't control it.

I personally have a problem with the pee pads, and it's just my opinion as I do not know a lot about training, obviously. I just feel that by using the pee pad, I'm giving him permission to go in the house, and I don't want him to ever think it's ok to go in the house.

I want him to be crate trained alongside the Lab. Hubby and I have enough problems with our little ones climbing into bed with us, we don't want the dogs in there too! lol Guess I need a king size bed.

I'm anxious to get the results today from the vet!

I'm thinking I'm going to have to start taking him out in the middle of the night again and extending his time in the crate gradually until he can go all night. Give him no opportunity to poop in that crate.

Julie


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Your plan sounds good. Hang in there, Julie. Hopefully, this will all be short-lived.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Julie, that sounds like a plan! I really truely feel it is because of all the crazy stuff going on at your home since you got him. he never was given the chance to train. Go to the bookstore & get Housetraining for dummies. It was my bible & worked great & had some good ideas. The pads are not so much telling him it is ok to go in the house = but that there is a proper place to go!! I used pads with all of mine in the first few months, and they gradually got it - that the only place to go is outside. I would try the big potty party, turkey dogs are good, just buy a little of things and see if he likes them. Even a piece of his kibble might work. If you end up doing the pads, just dont treat him when he goes on it, just say good job. Eventually he will figure out that outside potty gets me some good stuff!!
I think the biggest problem with him is that he got used to going in the crate due to his illness and does not have that natural instinct not to soil his sleeping quarters. I dont think I would let him sleep in the bed, but maybe an xpen with open crate & pads might be a good start. Buy a piece of linolium from Home Depot & put it under the xpen. It worked great for mine! Good luck
Laurie


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Julie,

How many times a day does he go potty? (not counting the accidents in the crate overnight)

Ryan


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

You are stressed and your dog must be feeling the stress as well .. As to the treats that may be part of the problem . There may be something in the treats that are causing him to have a stomach or intestinal upset . 
? What type of treats are you giving him and how many .I was very careful with Cosmo and the kind of treats until he hit puppy class . The trainer had treats that made him go over the moon - the kind in the roll . Well it was Ok for her as she just wanted the dogs to respond to her and her commands but we had to deal with the repercussions the next day . It took me a long time to wean him off those treats .It was the only treat he would do his school exercises for ..
Fortunately our behaviourist said by the time they are past the puppy stage verbal reinforcement was best . We rarely resorted to treats .. he was about 10 months then .
I stand by by what my vet said diet is very important - that means treats as well . Try and find a healthy treat or make your own . I have used cheese ,chicken , turkey .. We have a woman in Northern Ca who makes natural liver trats and they work very well and the dogs love them - no preservatives and they are all made by hand - with love ..
Stay away from treats with corm and wheat . Does your dog gets chews at all such as rawhide as some brands are cured with very toxic stuff.. Pigs ears also can cause tummy upsets. 
You dog is still a puppy - he is not mature in his mind nor in his body . He will not physically process things the way a older dog does ..
Cosmo got very sick when he was 6 months old - we still do not know what caused it he was exposed to something over Thanksgiving .. My friend brought her dog Tulip for a visit . I could never find out what he was exposed to or what he ingested - maybe he got something from Tulip but he had some serious vomiting and lethargy . He ended up at the Vets on I/V's . Fortunately he was only there for one night but it was very worrisome and stressful . Fortunately the vet was great and very reassuring ..
It took him almost a week before he was back to normal ..
I do not think your dog is doing this on purpose there has to be an underlying factor .
Does your dog sleep in the same room as you do or does he sleep somewhere else .. with the lab.. 
Cosmo slept in the same room as we did until just recently .There were times he slept through the night and then there were other times for whatever reason he would wake me and he really did have to go .. I would take him out to go potty ..
When we got Ahnold our second dog initially he would wake me up at night to go - it was mainly for reassurance and I think he needed to build my trust . 
They are both fine now ..
maybe your vet has some ideas or maybe he could recommend a behaviourist . I think they are better than a trainer per say as they focus on the dog and they will spend a long time observing the dog and trying to get an answer to your concerns..


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

If he sleeps in a different room from you, maybe you can use a baby monitor to hear when he gets up to take him out.

Ultimately, the goal is to get him to sleep through the night, but the temporary solution is to get him not to soil his crate. I would also consider trying a different food if he is going more than 3x a day. My vet told me any more than 3 is considered excessive.

I understand what you are saying about the potty pads, I had this debate with my husband! lol, He wanted her trained strictly outside and I wanted her trained on BOTH. Obviously, I won that battle. lol 

The potty party and lusted after treat will your best bet.

Also, you can buy an inexpensive piece of vinyl from any fabric store and that will make your clean up a little easier. I kept one in the xpen where the pad was, sometimes they go right on the edge! 

Let us know how it goes!

Kara


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Yeah, Beamer likes going on the edge of the potty pads! lol... he has gone on the edge 3 times in total! Other than that he has NEVER has an accident in the 10 day we have had him. I dont really consider those accidents as his intensions were to pee on the pad. Maybe I should put 2 or 3 pads together?? hmmm.. lol


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I just put the vinyl remnant underneath the pad so it wiped up easily if she went on the edge of it. Gucci was VERY reliable the first few months and then we went through a period of regression for a few weeks and NOW we are back on track and I have her going outside 99% of the time at home


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## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

*Charlie goes potty at least six times a day*

Let's see...he goes out at 5:30 am...then at 8:30ish, then 11 ish, then 1:30-2 ish, 4ish, 6 ish, 8:30ish and 10:30ish....ok that's about 8 so I'll say 6-8 times a day. He poops at LEAST four times a day.

He is on an *excellent* food...Solid Gold..but I just wonder is it the right food for him? Maybe he's too sensitive to the protein?

I do not give him raw hide I give him these things I get from this place called "woof it down" it's a swirly thingy..it's a good natural treat. I'm awaiting a call back from the owner with exactly what it is and I will post it here. This guy is wonderful and very knowledgable on pet health..has an excellent repuation in our community.

He is in his crate at night downstairs next to the lab. However, I was wondering if I should put his crate in my room..so he can be with me. First, I work in my room..I have a large bedroom and a corner is my "office" Next, like someone here said, I could hear him if he was scratching or woke at night.

Hubby and I will probably battle over this, but I'll probably win. 

Anyone know of how to keep those puppy pads pinned down if I do try that?

And, what makes them go on that rather than the floor?

Julie


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## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

*His one treat is called a "flossy"*

it's like a spiral, I get it at this organic doggie boutique.

I just talked to the guy. Here is what he told me:

flossy

usda tendon by merrick from us cattle

Charlie LOVES to chew this at night. I do not give them to him all the time. Occasionally we give him little marrow bones from the butcher as well after I boil it.

Julie

ps. I have three kids, ages 3, 5 and 15 and COMBINED have never been so into their stools as I am this puppy! LOL


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

The puppy pee pads are treated with something that gives them the "scent"


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## LuvMyHavanese (Apr 13, 2007)

I would definately put the crate in your room to see what he does at night. They dont like to be alone. I had to take Tripp out to pee EVERY hour during the day until about 11 months. And he poops 4-5 times a day!. He just turned 1 last week & he can go awhile with accidents but then......he pees on the carpet & we have to go back to basics for awhile.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

I know what you are going through!!!!!!!! Hopefully your vet will find something that you can correct easily. Refresh my memory, how long have you had Charlie? Did he do this at his former owners? With soft stools I would get him on a very bland diet or add 1 tablespoon of plain Dannon yogurt to his meals. This should help firm them up. I had a boxer once that did the same thing; we finally found she was allergic to gluten in the dog food. Once I got her digestive system in order she went all night and never messed her crate again.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

I agree with Shannon. I'd definitely put the crate in your room and see if that helps. Maddie had diarrhea a couple of times during the night when she was younger, and if she hadn't been in her crate next to us, I never would have heard her whining that she had to go out. If I hadn't taken her out immediately, perhaps she would have had no choice but to soil her crate. Plus, I think havanese do much better emotionally being near us. Its good your vet is ruling out parasites, giardia and coccidia. If he's healthy, I'd switch for several days to a diet of rice and boiled chicken with maybe a teaspoon or so of live culture yogurt. That will firm up his stools and it will be easier for him to control things. You might also try experimenting with feeding him at a different time to see if that helps. Sometimes, its just a timing thing. 

Let us know how he's doing!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

It might not be that the food he eats is "bad", but he *may* have some type of food sensitivity/allergy/intolerance? To something common, like gluten or wheat or corn? These intolerances can cause GI disturbances.

In fact, I have a good friend who's dog turned out to be intolerant to wheat and corn and most likely other ingredients in dog food. She went through SO MANY "organic" and expensive dog foods til' she was near her wits end, and then she started feeding the dog a mixture of boiled chicken, rice and apples and her dog became a completely different animal! Happy, attentive, no loose stools or vomiting, scratching, etc. So that is what she stuck with and to this day, has no problems. If your vet can't pinpoint a cause, I would consider doing an "elimination diet" to see if some type of food is the culprit. Here are a few links:

http://www.dogtorj.net/id37.html

http://www.millcreekac.com/tips/allergies.htm

Gucci likes the flossies too, and they haven't effected her stools.

I hope you find answers soon. Keep us updated 
Kara


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I did not realize that Charlie was in a crate downstairs. YOu def. have to have him with you for a while, until you can get over this hurdle. I am sure that the lab is hearing him whine to go, but not you. I would still set my alarm for around 1 each night, take him out no matter what. At least then you are only up for about 1/2 hour and he hopefully will not soil his crate. If he goes at 1am - have the greatest party at 1am you have ever had, then let him go back to bed. Then if clean in the morning, congratulate him. They do so well with positive reinforcement, getting angry only seems to upset them more! LEt us know how you make out tonight if you try this!!!
Laurie


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## JuJu (Jun 18, 2007)

*I told hubby Charlie joins us for a while..*

I feel bad because I hope Danny and he don't miss each other, but with all due respect to Danny, I did get this dog to be MY companion.

I'm still waiting all Charlie's lab tests and am looking into the whole food issue. Just had our first potty party outside.

Hubby took one look at Charlie after his haircut and shook his head saying "this is just wrong in so many ways..." He is NOT a small breed dog person to begin with, but Charlie has grown on him.

But, what about when we're out of the house? Isn't it better for him to be in his crate with danny? but then to have him in two different places in the house, won't that be confusing to him too?

Also, with him going to doggie day care a few days a week, I'm wondering if I should rethink that. The problem with that is, I paid a fortune for in house training for them while they are there...I have paid a total of $1200 for 10 daycare days each, and 12 private training sessions each. But I'm thinking now, how can I be consistent with charlie if his routine is not exactly the same every single day?

Julie


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

No he wont be confused. My guys have all been in the kitchen, still to this day, during the day when we are at work, and in the bedroom at night. I would put him in a crate in the kitchen during the day when you are out of the house too. I promise he will get it!!!! I am so glad to know that you are making every effort to make it work!! They are very adaptable,you are the boss in they will sleep and stay where you put them!! 
Please let me know how you make out tonight - feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions. 
Laurie


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Julie,

This is what ended the potty pad shredding for us.

http://www.wizdog.com/

~Leslie


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Julie, another solution is cloth pee pee pads. I have them & love them. You just throw them in the wash. it might be a solution for you.


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## Jan D (Mar 13, 2007)

He shouldn't be confused with being crated in different areas of the house. Havee has a crate in the family room for when we are out of the house for a short while. He sleeps in a different crate upstairs at night, not in our bedroom, but very near our bedroom. 

If I were you, I'd put his crate in your bedroom at night so that you can hear him if he needs to go out. If you think he's giving you a signal that he needs to go out, definitely take him out no matter what. Many a time I've ignored what I thought might have been a signal and I came to be sorry afterward because he had an accident. Most of his accidents have been my fault, not his.

Sometimes he just stares at me---I take him out and he goes.

I know you must be very frustrated...it certainly isn't easy! I wish you good luck---there are plenty of experienced people here that will help you through this! Try not to get mad at him---see his adorable face when he looks at you and :biggrin1:


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