# Natural / organic tick and flea repellent?



## Sobakevich (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi everybody. My sincere apologies in advance if this topic has been already covered but I spent the entire last week trying to figure out what should I do. My little adorable Ari is only 5 months old and I live in quite wooded area where there is a serious danger of catching all kind of parasites. I am mostly concerned with ticks as there are plenty of deers and coyotes wondering around.

Even before going to vet I dismissed all kind of FrontLine stuff, nonetheless their office have recommended me a Scalibor (this is a band / collar) made by Merck). Even before reading a MSDS sheet I was quite sceptical of an idea to introduce yet another chemical compound / poison to my little boy bloodstream (I have enough grave experience with my husband side effects from chemo therapy). It is like a trade-off, - either to die of cancel or suffer from all kind of debilitating side effects.I just hate drugs..period. And sure enuf, after reading that MSDS sheet, I was absolutely terrified and scared.

Anyways, I start looking and found CedarCide, highly touted "organic" oil, yet not certified by respective governmental agencies. There are some negative feedback (both on a company and product), so I am wondering if anybody used this stuff and how effective is it? It is also known as Dr. Ben oil, sold by quarts and gallons.

I got to do something ASAP because I can't keep my adorable puppy inside. HELP!!!!


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## Grindstone50 (Feb 13, 2012)

interesting. Living in CT I have 3 havies and am already taking the ticks off in numbers I haven't seen in the past. Just looked up remedies. I do use Advantix.. it works fairly well, but doesnt repell the way I would like. Read the essential oil of Rose Geranium is effective to repel go to , http://www.care2.com/greenliving/rose-geranium-for-ticks.html
Maybe this will help.
I have not tried it yet, but surely something has to be done. 2 of my older dogs have had tick bite reactions and I have had Ehrlichiosis (a tick borne desease) as well as repeated symptoms the past few years.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I tried another type of herbal product. The problem I had was the ticks would still get on the dogs, and then they would fall off in my house. I had lyme 3 times, so I have to weigh out the pros and cons. Unfortunately, I can't afford to get lyme again so my guys wear the Preventic collars and I treat them with frontline. If a tick should get on the dog, the frontline will kill them. My pups like their walks way too much, so this is the only solution for me....


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I live in a heavy tick infested area. Before going out, I dab my dogs with a 50/50 solution of raw, organic, unpasteurized apple cider vinegar and water. I dab it on them with a rag and it seems to be helping. I sometimes add a little chopped garlic to the solution for added punch. I know garlic repels mosquitoes. I also started feeding them a teensie bit of raw garlic each day, mixed into their food, and I put a small amount of apple cider vinegar in their water as well.

Nancy


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## Sobakevich (Mar 24, 2012)

Thanks a lot, Nancy. How old are your dogs, I assume we are talking about havanese, right? How many do you have and how long you have been doing this? How often do you apply this solution, like once a week, every time you take them out? Do you have to pretty much soak them in it? Have you noticed any ticks on them (dead or alive) after applying this solution? Any problems with matting afterwards? What about smell? Are they leaking themselves more than usually?

The reason I am seeking help and advice here is that I believe this is the only place on Internet where I can find sincere, loving and totally non-biased community which has the same concerns as I do regarding their beloved pets well-being and health. These little darlings of ours completely entrusted us with their lives and they are absolutely sure that we will protect them and therefore will eat, wear or take whatever we give them. Therefore we have huge responsibility to make those decisions and it is twice as hard.

Advertising all kinds of "organic" / "alternative" remedies on Internet is quickly becoming quite fashionable, huge and dirty business where all kind of *"shill professional"* opinions are offered to the unsuspecting public to "help" them to consolidate their buying decision. On one hand they will pray on your fear of conventional Big Pharma solutions and on another they will try to steer you in the opposite direction. And no doubts, you will find equally populated reverse notions. For all those unscrupulous low-lives it's all about making a quick buck! They care less about human life.. let alone your pet. I know all that from my personal experience watching my husband spending small fortune and who counts the time and efforts, dealing with alternative methods / remedies for treating cancer.

As I said before I flatly refuse to use any pharmaceutical solutions for my adorable Ari regardless of what other people think about them. I know that it is a _*poison*_, the only question is not will it affect something in your pet but rather when will it happen and in what shape and form will it manifest itself. All drugs _*are killers*_ and the only variables are time and which pat of the organism they will affect!

I know this because I've seen it on my husband. Btw, do you know that it is only in USA you can find such a blatant TV advertising of various drugs. Did you ever ask yourself a question, - *"WHY IS THAT"*

So organic route it is, at least for me, therefore, please continue to share your personal experiences with any of those methods and remedies. I believe that our strength is in TRUTH which is very difficult commodity to find nowadays.

TIA to everybody


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

Never heard of Cedarcide, know cedar doesn't attract insects. Apple cidar vinegar is good, but not perfect. The same thing for diatomaceous earth. I don't know if de works for ticks but pretty good for fleas.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Well I don't know if it is as organic as you would want it to be, but I do occasionally use Lice-Freee (the leave-on spray, not the gel that you are supposed to wash off) on my dog to keep away fleas. It's NOT a product made for dogs (it's made for humans), and not even made to keep away fleas (it's made to kill and keep away lice on human heads), so use it at your own discretion - YMMV - but, it's worked wonders for both of the 'children' in my house, human and dog, whether the bugs were lice or fleas (no idea about ticks, we don't live where there are ticks). It's supposed to be perfectly save for children, so I assume that by extension it would be relatively safe for dogs as well.

I also _*LOVE *_DE, but that's not much good as a deterrent in real-time,, it's much better as a treatment to keep fleas (and perhaps ticks, not sure) from infesting your home, which is a slightly different matter.

That being said, I use a regular monthly flea treatment on my dog and would probably use a tick-repelling monthly treatment as well if we lived where there were ticks - in other words, I don't recommend using anything I've mentioned above as an ongoing repellent, without the regular monthly treatments. I am not sure, in fact, that there any 100% pure, organic, natural solution out there, to be honest. We all have to weigh the costs vs. benefits of everything we do for our dogs, from flea treatments to vaccinations to socialization (in potentially parvo-infested situations, for instance). -Just my 2 cents...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Just be careful about using products for another species without consulting a vet first. Just because it's safe for humans does NOT necessarily mean it's safe for all animal species. For instance, deet, the main ingredient in most mosquito repellents, is a neurotoxin for horses. Bad, bad stuff. Same thing is true with Advantix... works great on dogs, deadly to cats if ingested. 

So please make sure you check before using a product meant for one species on another species.


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## Sobakevich (Mar 24, 2012)

> Just be careful about using products for another species without consulting a vet first.


Thanks for the warning, guys. Trust me, I won't do anything until I am 100% comfortablle and sure about anything organic / natural I find. As far as my vet opinion, I do not think so, - they all represent conventional medicine like human doctors. They all make money selling and promoting all kind of drugs and I can't blame them for it - that is their reality and living but surely it is not *MINE*.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Personally I believe in products to repel and kill fleas and ticks. The tick born disease might kill my little one. If a child needs an antibotic (poison) would you not give it? Same with vaccines. We eradicated polio and smallpox with vacines. And I spray down my grands with Deet when they are playing outside in the woods. Encephalitus is not a disease to play around with and it is passed from mosquitos to humans.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree, Lucile. I do due diligence, and learn all I can to use the smallest amounts of the safest products that will do the job. But, living in the tick and mosquito infested northeast, the consequences of not protecting our pets (and ourselves) from the REALLY severe diseases ticks and mosquitos carry is something I can't ignore. Sometimes it's a matter of accepting the lesser of two evils.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Sobakevick. I have two dogs, three years old. One is havanese/papillon mix but looks like purebred havanese. I dab the apple cider vinegar/water/garlic solution on them every time we go out. This is important. I use a towel and dab it on them, rubbing it into their fur. They are not soaked or anything but I try to get it all over them. We have tons of ticks around here. My Havanese has not gotten any ticks at all. My other dog has picked up a couple but typically would get more. I have not noticed any matting. In fact, ACV is a great hair conditioner...I actually think it makes her fur soft and reduces the matting tendency. I have not been doing this too long but will continue and report back on my success. I have gone the essential oil route and my yorkie had a terrible reaction. I also have cats and do not want to use essential oils because of that.

Nancy


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I came across the following product which I am wondering about. It says it is safe enough to put on your children. I have not tried it and approaching with caution. Someone from another forum recommended it. Does anyone have experience with this?

http://www.wondercide.com/evolv-organic-flea-spray.html

Thank you,

Nancy


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

My feeling about this sort of thing is, if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. Just the claim that it contains "no chemicals" is patently false. Everything around us is made up of chemicals. Chemicals are neither inherently "good" nor "bad". Water is a chemical, and we rely on the chemical reactions of heat on baking powder to make our cakes fluffy. Chemicals like petroleum products are "good" when they power our cars and heat our houses, and "bad" when they escape into the environment.

I have a hard time believing that ANYTHING that can KILL insects so quickly is totally non-toxic. 

I won't be putting it on my dog any time soon.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

krandall said:


> Just be careful about using products for another species without consulting a vet first. Just because it's safe for humans does NOT necessarily mean it's safe for all animal species. For instance, deet, the main ingredient in most mosquito repellents, is a neurotoxin for horses. Bad, bad stuff. Same thing is true with Advantix... works great on dogs, deadly to cats if ingested.
> 
> So please make sure you check before using a product meant for one species on another species.


I'm a bit late to respond but I totally agree with Karen here. I only use Lice-Freee on my dog as a quick spray for an extra deterrent during the really flea-heavy times here, and would not recommend it for regular use at all. Its main ingredient is sodium chloride (a type of salt), which I am comfortable putting on my dog very occasionally as needed, but that doesn't mean that anybody else should put it on their dogs without doing their own research first.

-That being said, I am very glad to have discovered it  But please, do your own research and decide what you are comfortable with. Even the things that are OK for most may cause a bad reaction in a few... there is as I said almost always a cost vs. benefit to weigh with many decisions that we make for our dogs.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for their feedback on this. I am going to stick with my homemade spray of apple cider vinegar, garlic and water! It seems to be working and the ticks are bad this year.

Nancy


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Thanks to everyone for their feedback on this. I am going to stick with my homemade spray of apple cider vinegar, garlic and water! It seems to be working and the ticks are bad this year.
> 
> Nancy


Don't fix what ain't broke!


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## HavaneseHannah (Mar 30, 2011)

I use the regular flea powder to treat **** fleas. Have you heard of the product Advocate? They say it's very effective in removing ticks and fleas.


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## Sobakevich (Mar 24, 2012)

Yes, I have heard about Advocate and huge component in that drug like in many other similar remedies is Chemical compound called _*imidacloprid*_. Let's forget for a moment that it is made in China but I invite you to read thoroughly the above referenced MSDS sheet. I hope you are familiar what MSDS abbreviation stands for, if not, - it spells out Material Safety Data Sheet. Those papers are supposed to accompany any toxic product / compound.

Please, read it and then tell me what daya think!


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## Sobakevich (Mar 24, 2012)

mudpuppymama said:


> I came across the following product which I am wondering about. It says it is safe enough to put on your children. I have not tried it and approaching with caution. Someone from another forum recommended it. Does anyone have experience with this?
> 
> http://www.wondercide.com/evolv-organic-flea-spray.html
> 
> ...


Nancy, I am not 100% sure but I think it it is another variety of Cedarcide which I mentioned in my original post.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sobakevich said:


> Yes, I have heard about Advocate and huge component in that drug like in many other similar remedies is Chemical compound called _*imidacloprid*_. Let's forget for a moment that it is made in China but I invite you to read thoroughly the above referenced MSDS sheet. I hope you are familiar what MSDS abbreviation stands for, if not, - it spells out Material Safety Data Sheet. Those papers are supposed to accompany any toxic product / compound.
> 
> Please, read it and then tell me what daya think!


It looks to me that, as insecticides go, this is a relatively mild one. It also doesn't say anything about use on pets for fleas or ticks, however. It's intended use is on seed.


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## Sobakevich (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> It looks to me that, as insecticides go, this is a relatively mild one. It also doesn't say anything about use on pets for fleas or ticks, however. It's intended use is on seed.


Hmmm..then how you can interpret this



> Advocate which is registered under the trademark Advantage Multi in several countries, combines excellent flea and lice efficacy (imidacloprid) with sound protecion against heartworm infestations, gastrointestinal worms as well as mites (moxidectin).


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sobakevich said:


> Hmmm..then how you can interpret this


I was only reading the MSDS that you supplied. That's all the info you gave us.

ETA: I did go and look at the spot flea/tick products I use for both my cat and dog, and you are right, this is one of the ingredients. But since the MSDS also says that it was not found to be a skin irritant, I'm not sure that it is a huge danger.

As a couple of us have stated before, there are, of course, risks with any treatment/preventative. Each of us needs to weigh the cost/benefits of using these products. I still believe that, living where I do, the risks of NOT using them are higher than the risks of using them. You, of course, are free to do your own cost/benefit analysis, based on your own geographic area and living conditions, and come to your own conclusion.


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## Sobakevich (Mar 24, 2012)

True but I did state that *imidacloprid* was the main component of Advocate.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sobakevich said:


> True but I did state that *imidacloprid* was the main component of Advocate.


I'm very sorry, but I've never heard of "Advocate".

You clearly have strong feelings on this subject, and you are welcome to them. We all have to make our own decisions on what is best for our pets and our families.


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