# Potty confusion?



## EllenO (Sep 28, 2021)

Hi all! This is longer than I wanted to keep it so I apologize in advance! 

Pepper is 10 months and has been generally good with house training. We have a designated potty area in the yard since we have young children who roll around on the turf on the play yard side. When he was younger (6/7 months?), he’d run to his potty area on his own, in between scheduled potty breaks, when we were playing in the yard. It was great! 

Since things seemed to be going well, I taught him to use a floor potty bell. But soon after, he started to ring the bell to play outside. I tried a number of things to reinforce the potty bell for potty only but it didn’t work. So I took it away to try again later. We went back to scheduled potty breaks every 4-5 hours but now he doesn’t tell me when he needs to go out… or maybe I take him too frequently? And he no longer goes on his own to his potty spot when we’re outside playing. Before he was neutered (last month), he peed on our patio pavers a couple times. It didn’t seem like marking but I can’t say for certain. Prior to that, he only marked outside during walks. 

He’s been pretty reliable inside… but we still don’t give him free reign of the house. If he isn’t in the sectioned off main living area, he’s with someone who can watch him in the other areas for short periods of time and only if he already went potty. And he’s in his expen/crate area when we aren’t home. 

We started daycare 2 weeks ago at our sitters home and she lets the dogs potty anywhere in the yard. Does this cause confusion? Because today, I started playing fetch with him and he pooped in the play yard! He hasn’t done that since we first got him and in the thick of potty training. We’ve had a couple accidents elsewhere but not there. 😞

He was recently at the vet and he’s healthy. His poops are solid. But we’ve had more disruption to our routine with summer gatherings and events/activity. Interestingly enough, he hasn’t had a single accident in someone else’s house… thank goodness! 

My questions are: 

how do I teach him to tell me when he has to potty and that he can go anytime he needs to (as long as it’s in his potty spot) when we’re in the yard?
am I taking him out too frequently? Are scheduled potty breaks hindering our progress?
does daycare potty confuse him since we do it differently at home? If so, how do I help him differentiate rules in each house?

Thank you for all your wisdom! I get such expert advice on this forum… I’d be lost without you! 

EllenO


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## joyadevivre (3 mo ago)

Hi Ellen I see there are no replies to your question but it's been a few months and wondering how Pepper's doing with his potty habits now? We're only at 3 months. I'd love to train my dog to let me know she has to go potty.


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## EllenO (Sep 28, 2021)

Hi! Congrats on your new puppy! Pepper is my first dog so I’m learning as I go…. Which may explain why it took Pepper a while to catch on. He hasn’t had an accident inside the house in a while now…. Several months now. And ever since his potty accident on the play yard, I’ve put him on leash to guide him to his potty spot every time. I wanted to start letting him out without the leash to encourage him to find and go there on his own… but a few things changed. 


our neighbor got a new puppy
Pepper found a way to roam up on the hill portion of our yard by climbing up some boulders and jumping up onto the retaining wall
I reintroduced the bell

So with the first 2 points above, Pepper has gotten distracted and will often run off to explore or play after going potty. But I’m not available to stay out with him after every potty trip (we have hawks and coyotes) so I can’t take the leash off.

And re: the bell… well, he really seems to love the neighbor dog (who he can only engage with when he’s on the hill) and so he will ring the bell even when he doesn’t have to go potty. He’s gotten clever and will go a little bit just to see if his friend is outside. I actually took the bell away this morning.

Now my plan is to keep him on schedule (as much as possible since my schedule changes daily) and take him out on leash. I’ll find a way to block him from going up on the hill. The hill is steep and not easy for me to move on. So when he’s up there, I worry that he might get hurt or the fence may have gaps where he may be able to slip out. Once the hill access is blocked, I’ll try taking him out without the leash again.

Still working on stuff but I’m glad I don’t have to worry about him having accidents inside. How has it been with your pup?


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## joyadevivre (3 mo ago)

Wow Ellen, we also have hawks and coyotes, and one of my neighbors spotted a California brown bear in his night video camera last month. He said in 81 years of living here, he's never seen or heard of a bear in these woods. We also have a steep hill out back that goes to open space of wild forests. We fenced it 10 years ago but last week a big deer bolted through it and jumped down the hill leaping at least 10' high at times. That was some sight to see, and another reason that we always have to go out with Dixie deVivre. It's just too wild out there. Foxes too. And Mt. Lions. Luckily I've never seen the bear or mountain lion, but we know that we are living in their territory. We have a big fenced garden with raised beds that Dixie loves to run in. Still, I know many of these animals can easily jump a 6' fence. Now I'm getting scared!!! 🦉🐝🐛🦋. She's doing well, but still using her pee pads inside mostly. Today we were gone for 6 hours and took her out to potty and she held it until we walked in the door. We even took some pads and pad holder with us but she waited. I think she'll be fine and learn to use both in and out. At least she's going ONLY on her pads for the last 2 days. That's huge progress. Pepper is a very beautiful dog. I think these havanese are super smart. . . I love our girl.


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## Ditto's Mom (Apr 29, 2007)

Hi Ellen, glad to hear Pepper is doing well.
Welcome to Dixie and joyadevivre!


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## joyadevivre (3 mo ago)

Thank you Ditto's Mom.


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## EllenO (Sep 28, 2021)

joyadevivre said:


> Wow Ellen, we also have hawks and coyotes, and one of my neighbors spotted a California brown bear in his night video camera last month. He said in 81 years of living here, he's never seen or heard of a bear in these woods. We also have a steep hill out back that goes to open space of wild forests. We fenced it 10 years ago but last week a big deer bolted through it and jumped down the hill leaping at least 10' high at times. That was some sight to see, and another reason that we always have to go out with Dixie deVivre. It's just too wild out there. Foxes too. And Mt. Lions. Luckily I've never seen the bear or mountain lion, but we know that we are living in their territory. We have a big fenced garden with raised beds that Dixie loves to run in. Still, I know many of these animals can easily jump a 6' fence. Now I'm getting scared!!! 🦉🐝🐛🦋. She's doing well, but still using her pee pads inside mostly. Today we were gone for 6 hours and took her out to potty and she held it until we walked in the door. We even took some pads and pad holder with us but she waited. I think she'll be fine and learn to use both in and out. At least she's going ONLY on her pads for the last 2 days. That's huge progress. Pepper is a very beautiful dog. I think these havanese are super smart. . . I love our girl.


Yes! Hitting the pee pad is huge! Pepper used to use his pee pad as a bed. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Your girls is precious! And I love her name!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

You’re kind of past this point but I thought I’d mention that I think they learn different rule sets in different situations quickly as long as they’re reminded preventatively. So for instance, the first few days after daycare I would have taken him to that spot and made a big deal about potty there like you probably did when he was younger. Sundance went to daycare and pet sitters as a puppy and he learned very quickly. He adapts a little too well to the different levels of tolerances between family members - he knows exactly who to go to for what he wants! Your plan sounds great, I’m sure Pepper will learn quickly. The silver lining about the neighbor puppy is that at least he’ll end up getting a lot of practice learning to go potty right away with distractions! It will be useful for him to be good at it. Crossing my fingers for you that he starts to get the hang of it quickly before it gets really cold wherever you are


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

joyadevivre said:


> Hi Ellen I see there are no replies to your question but it's been a few months and wondering how Pepper's doing with his potty habits now? We're only at 3 months. I'd love to train my dog to let me know she has to go potty.


My puppy started letting me know early, but I think sometimes that can give a false sense of security. The foundation is really thorough potty training. Personally, I would stay on a schedule, or use an indoor potty, and I wouldn’t rely on those cues until they are 100% potty trained, and probably a year old. They are very smart and understand the routine of potty training quickly but they aren’t developmentally mature and usually haven’t generalized it yet so it’s easy to develop problems. There is a a period around a year old that is a common time for potty training regression. I see it as a bonus when Sundance gives a cue, and it’s definitely worth rewarding and a useful skill, but for me it really only comes up when Sundance needs an extra potty trip, even as an adult, so it’s not exactly life changing, either. It won’t be as demanding to keep a schedule in 3 months as it is now, but it can be a lot and indoor potty can help imo. We took Sundance out morning and night and he used a potty tray during the day. Now he goes twice first thing in the morning (he goes too fast sometimes because he’s excited about breakfast), around 1:30-2pm, at dinner depending on when we eat, and before bed. I still introduced a bell without relying on him ringing it, though, and it’s helpful. We rang the bell every time we took him out, but continued to go out on schedule, and he figured it out fast. At one point when Sundance was older I had an issue with our bell (it fell off the hook and when I switched to a different bell it was too hard to ring) and he just started waiting next to the bell by the door. 

It’s great when they communicate, but I wouldn’t wait for a preschooler to tell me when they need to go, either. They go routinely and before we get in the car whether they think they need to or not  Some will get there earlier and it’s convenient, but I’d just be cautious because cues aren’t necessarily an indicator of reliable potty training.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> My puppy started letting me know early, but I think sometimes that can give a false sense of security. The foundation is really thorough potty training. Personally, I would stay on a schedule, or use an indoor potty, and I wouldn’t rely on those cues until they are 100% potty trained, and probably a year old. They are very smart and understand the routine of potty training quickly but they aren’t developmentally mature and usually haven’t generalized it yet so it’s easy to develop problems. There is a a period around a year old that is a common time for potty training regression. I see it as a bonus when Sundance gives a cue, and it’s definitely worth rewarding and a useful skill, but for me it really only comes up when Sundance needs an extra potty trip, even as an adult, so it’s not exactly life changing, either. It won’t be as demanding to keep a schedule in 3 months as it is now, but it can be a lot and indoor potty can help imo. We took Sundance out morning and night and he used a potty tray during the day. Now he goes twice first thing in the morning (he goes too fast sometimes because he’s excited about breakfast), around 1:30-2pm, at dinner depending on when we eat, and before bed. I still introduced a bell without relying on him ringing it, though, and it’s helpful. We rang the bell every time we took him out, but continued to go out on schedule, and he figured it out fast. At one point when Sundance was older I had an issue with our bell (it fell off the hook and when I switched to a different bell it was too hard to ring) and he just started waiting next to the bell by the door.
> 
> It’s great when they communicate, but I wouldn’t wait for a preschooler to tell me when they need to go, either. They go routinely and before we get in the car whether they think they need to or not  Some will get there earlier and it’s convenient, but I’d just be cautious because cues aren’t necessarily an indicator of reliable potty training.





EvaE1izabeth said:


> My puppy started letting me know early, but I think sometimes that can give a false sense of security. The foundation is really thorough potty training. Personally, I would stay on a schedule, or use an indoor potty, and I wouldn’t rely on those cues until they are 100% potty trained, and probably a year old. They are very smart and understand the routine of potty training quickly but they aren’t developmentally mature and usually haven’t generalized it yet so it’s easy to develop problems. There is a a period around a year old that is a common time for potty training regression. I see it as a bonus when Sundance gives a cue, and it’s definitely worth rewarding and a useful skill, but for me it really only comes up when Sundance needs an extra potty trip, even as an adult, so it’s not exactly life changing, either. It won’t be as demanding to keep a schedule in 3 months as it is now, but it can be a lot and indoor potty can help imo. We took Sundance out morning and night and he used a potty tray during the day. Now he goes twice first thing in the morning (he goes too fast sometimes because he’s excited about breakfast), around 1:30-2pm, at dinner depending on when we eat, and before bed. I still introduced a bell without relying on him ringing it, though, and it’s helpful. We rang the bell every time we took him out, but continued to go out on schedule, and he figured it out fast. At one point when Sundance was older I had an issue with our bell (it fell off the hook and when I switched to a different bell it was too hard to ring) and he just started waiting next to the bell by the door.
> 
> It’s great when they communicate, but I wouldn’t wait for a preschooler to tell me when they need to go, either. They go routinely and before we get in the car whether they think they need to or not  Some will get there earlier and it’s convenient, but I’d just be cautious because cues aren’t necessarily an indicator of reliable potty training.


Even at 6 1/2 I don't wait for Perry to let me know when he has to go out - as you said, the cue is more for the "extraordinary" times if he needs to go out between our regularly scheduled times. Granted, our schedule is a little fluid, but it still generally is morning/ when we get up, between 1:30-2:30, around 6 and before bed. 

When we were living in Kampala he was really good at giving us a cue - but when we moved back to the US his normal cue - of standing by the door and looking at us - didn't work because the door to outside was in a different room. He figured it out after a while (that we wouldn't see him by the door) but the schedule worked as well/ if not better to ensure he got out when he needed.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Melissa Brill said:


> Even at 6 1/2 I don't wait for Perry to let me know when he has to go out - as you said, the cue is more for the "extraordinary" times if he needs to go out between our regularly scheduled times. Granted, our schedule is a little fluid, but it still generally is morning/ when we get up, between 1:30-2:30, around 6 and before bed.
> 
> When we were living in Kampala he was really good at giving us a cue - but when we moved back to the US his normal cue - of standing by the door and looking at us - didn't work because the door to outside was in a different room. He figured it out after a while (that we wouldn't see him by the door) but the schedule worked as well/ if not better to ensure he got out when he needed.


I think you mentioned this once, too, but the skill that made the biggest difference for me, even more than learning Sundance’s cues, was when he learned to “go potty” on command. It was really a turning point that made everything related to potty training a lot easier.


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## EllenO (Sep 28, 2021)

Thanks everyone! I think I have a better sense of how to work with him now. We’re definitely going to go on schedule for now. He’s been more clear with his cues and it’s been helpful for the extra times in between. Since it’s cold now, it helps that we aren’t outside as much so I won’t worry about accidents on the play side of the yard.


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