# Cash is blowing up like a balloon...HELP!



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

As many of you know Cash has always been a big hungry Hav! Last week I started a regiment from a canine nutritionist who recommended Wellnesss Core reduced fat along with some raw and some canned for a total of 425 calories a day based on a 20.5 lb dog (cash is 23.5 lbs) She also recommended some supplements that I have not added yet.

Well I feel like he is doubling in size every other day this week. where as I could feel his ribs if I poked-- it's getting harder. I can only describe it as a woman gaining weight that quickly when we store water. Our scale is broken and I have not had time to replace it-- so all I can go on is feel right now. But he is panting more, and he is absolutely starving! he just was licking our kitchen rug for about a half hour, would not be distracted and then he was foraging around the cabinets for crumbs... I gave him a kong with a drop of frozen canned in it and he hid with it for fear I would take it away... I try to distract him with play...but he just looks up to the mantle where we used to keep treats and whines. 

This is not new to this new regimen, he was starving on the raw and would eat his poop out of hunger which is why we contacted the nutritionist. We have had his thyroid tested, and he has been checked by the vet...I am not sure what else to do. 

I feel so bad! Cash used to be my happy go lucky boy...and now all he can think about is food. And I am afraid to weigh him... and he just seems sad.

Are there any other health issues that would cause such insatiable hunger?


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Oh Missy, I don't have any advice, but I feel for you and Cash. Diets stink!!!!! I know he needs to be healthy, but it's so hard to watch him long for food. Maybe some of the others will have some advice. I hope he cheers up!
Gina


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## Hav a lot of pets (Apr 4, 2008)

We had a dog that we used to cook for and feed "holistic" diets to. He just could not do it. He was ravenously hungry and would lick the baseboards over and over. We put him back on cheaper kibble (good quality, but kibble), and he was full--FINALLY! He never ever felt full with chicken, rice, venison, ...

Only kibble worked for that boy!


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Missy, I think I would go back to what works.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Oh Missy I feel for you and Cash. We had a lab like that and all his tests came back normal too. He was just always hungry and fat. Have you tried raw baby carrots or green beans as a filler? Or broccoli? 
I wonder why he's swelling up. Is he pooping and peeing OK? 
Have you ever tried just giving his a calorie restricted dry kibble and that's all?
I hope you find the solution!!
Carole


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Missy, I would contact Sabine and see what she says.


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

Missy, just tossing out ideas, I always hesitate contributing this way because I know I'm the rare one who does a lot of research on "alternative" stuff - for both humans and animals, since that is what has worked for me, but I keep doing it just in case it's helpful. 

Based on what I've been reading in recent years, I have 2 immediate thoughts come to mind - parasitic infection absorbing his nutrients that may not be showing up on standard fecal testing - causing excessive hunger? Also, what about organs of digestion - liver, gallbladder, pancreas... can he process carbs and fat?

You mentioned thyroid, which could explain weight gain - a human example - there is a group of doctors studying iodine therapy for thyroid disorders, ovarian cysts, fibrocystic breast disease, hormone imbalance and subclinical low thyroid that doesn't show up on traditional testing. Those low thyroid people who have "normal" thyroid tests can often be helped by supplementing with thyroid glandulars or iodine. I'm using iodine (Lugol's 5%) for the past few months, and it's starting to resolve some health issues for me. I participate in a discussion forum about it on an alternative health website, there are some great results reported, and some people are treating their pets with it successfully too, though it's not something I would try without consulting with my holistic vet first. The M.D.'s I was referring to are finding that excess fluoride, bromides and halides in our food and water supply are taking up space in the thyroid, ovaries, breasts, etc. where iodine (which the body needs), is supposed to be stored, as well as deficiencies of iodine in our diets (and iodized salt is not a good source). Don't know, but could be similar in dogs if they are drinking fluoridated water and there are bromides/halides in their foods. 

Like I said.... just throwing out ideas, and suggesting that a normal thyroid test may not necessarily mean his thyroid isn't under-functioning. I can try to get you some links about this stuff if it's something you want to pursue. 

I hope you can find the cause and the cure!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Missy- my in laws have corgis that they eat and become crazy. They are overweight- you can easily see it looking at them (I personally don't think they get enough exercise) but what has really helped them is mixing in green beans and puffed rice cereal with their kibble. Not sure if this would work with picky havs but these dogs eat whatever you put down they don't even check if it is food first.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Missy, that would be SO hard, to have Cash so hungry all the time!! It would be very hard to handle. And, for him to be gaining, on top of that! Do you think he could be gaining water? If so, that and panting makes me wonder about his heart....

Sending you (and Cash) sympathetic hugs!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Missy,

I wish I knew the answer,but I do not. I did want to tell you my experience with Vinnie though. The vet wanted me to keep Vinnie pretty lean. I put him on a weight control food(kibble) and he was always hungry. I carefully measured his portions for almost a year. Vinnie was always starving and had actually gained weight! I finally thought the heck with it! I put him on regular kibble and he hasn't gained any more weight at all. He acts "fuller and more satisfied". I figured the weight control food must not be satifying or fulfilling to him,and he never lost any weight at all. It was so hard being kinda the "bad guy" for all that time with no results. I do not regret putting Vinnie on a regular kibble he likes and feels less hungry on. He is still overweight however. Vinnie gets virtually no treats at all. I wonder if Cash would be happier if he had a big giant chew bone to kinda help him through the adjustment? I don't know---just a thought.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Missy, I know how worrisome this must be because of all the work you've been doing trying to get the dogs onto the best diet for each of them. I'm surprised to hear Cash is gaining, but it would be great if you could weigh him, just to be sure. Any chance of popping into the vets' just for a weigh-in? Of course, you want to be sure their scale is in synch. with yours.

I agree it might be a good idea to contact the nutritionist again to see what she has to suggest.

Amanda wrote: *"my in laws have corgis that they eat and become crazy"*

I'd become crazy too if I ate Corgis! Those guys are way too short and long for my diet. :biggrin1:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

thank you all for your support. 

Geesh, Sheri, that it could be his heart is a scary thought. 

Diane, I would love you to point me in the direction of your research. Although his thyroid test was done by the leader in canine thryroid disorders. 

Jill, the thing is nothing has worked...he just keeps gaining. and has always been hungry. 

the kibble is pretty new... the thinking that it would make him fuller instead of all raw. I have not tried just kibble. 

I feel like just putting a big bowl of kibble down and letting him binge and get sick and see if that puts an end to it... he does get greenbeans with his meals.

keep the ideas coming. I kind of want to be armed before I call the vet.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Missy,

No idea why Cash is gainging weight?? How much walking does he get a day? He might now actually be hungry, maybe he just wants to eat cause why not? Beamer always begs like crazy, but he si not hungry.. he just thinks he is.. lol.. like all dogs..

When you met with the caninie nutritionalist, what did he/she say when visually inspecting Cash? I think you should get him weighed at the vets office so you can actually know for sure if he is gaining or not. It just might be your paranoia taking over...???

Ryan


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Missy, I'm sorry to hear about Cash's weight struggles. I wonder if something metabolic is going on with him. Lincoln is 18.5 pounds and he eats about 400 calories a day, and feels lean and muscular to me - I can feel his ribs, and his hind legs are very muscle-y. I hope you can figure out what is going on and a food regimen that really works for him that he will eat and keeps him healthy. You have been through so much food-wise for your boys (and for yourself) that my heart just goes out to you! :hug:


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Missy I'm so sorry to hear about Cash's eating frustrations. I can't imagine how bad it must make you feel, especially after all you've gone through to give him the very best diet possible.

I'm sure lots of people would disagree, but at this point I would be very tempted to try Cash on a top quality kibble that he really likes and see what happens. I've spoke with a quite a few people about free feeding kibble and from what I've found, serious over-eating is fairly rare.
Good luck Missy.

Beverly


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## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

I don't have much to offer, and someone likely already said this, but I'll post the only things I know anyway.

From what I have read, low fat diets generally don't work and generally aren't good for the dogs.

You said he always had this problem on raw. How did he do on kibble before the raw? My guys cannot eat kibble, and they cannot eat raw. My guys could not digest either. Does he poop more on raw than he did on kibble? Are his poops a different color - are they more yellowish, are they greasier or foamy looking? (and if he did fine on kibble prior to raw, then this might be significant info)

I've been through a bit with my guys gastro issues, and I have learned that my guys starve when they aren't absorbing their food. I have to make sure they get vitamins in order to help them absorb the food, as this makes a really big difference. I also give them a plant based enzyme with each meal. Logical thinking would say to give a pancreatic enzyme, but this didn't help them - the plant based ones do. Now, this is homecooked meals, and not kibble - so that's why the need for vitamins. I am assuming that while you had been feeding him raw that he was getting calcium and a multivitamin?

The difference tho, is that he is starving and *gaining* weight, yet thyroid is fine. I'm sorry - I'll have to go back and re-read this thread later, as I am so tired at the moment, I can't recall things I have just looked at. Did you do a FULL panel thru Michigan State Univ? This full panel includes auto-immune profiles and it picks up more than the standard tests and should be run in this particular case. If not run thru MSU, then I think it needs to be re-done considering the starving and weight gain. I have some thoughts running around in my head about other possible testing, but it is so late that these thoughts are being elusive and won't settle down. 

One more question. Has he had any episodes in the last year of diarrhea? Maybe bad mucousy diarrhea, or vomitting? Somthing that might have been really bad that lasted a few days, or something that comes and goes a few times this past year?

(I am really so tired right now, that I have probably said something already said, or missed something big....I just hated to leave and say nothing tonight just because I emphathize with mystery unknowns and trying to fix our guys health issues. It can be so frustrating, that I just didn't want to not say anything....wanted to try and be helpful in some way or another). I'll try and get on tomorrow if that major computer bug that is threatening everyone doesn't show up tomorrow as they think it will.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

My daughter's Westie eats everything in sight and pants occasionally because he has Cushings. His appetite is voracious because Cushings puts too much cortisol in the blood which is kind of like taking alot of prednisone. And trust me, after taking prednisone for over 25 years, I know how hungry it can make you feel. But I was kind of thinking that Cushings mainly affects older dogs. Besides, I was thinking your vet ran complete blood tests on Cash, right Missy? 

Maybe Cash is just a food hound. Some dogs are like that. I often put slightly cooked green beans in Maddie's food to cut back on food and fill her up. Raw carrots work well too. Maybe someone else will have better suggestions for you. It must be hard to see your boy hungry all the time.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

I wish I had some suggestions, Missy. But it looks like others do. That is so frustrating!
It sounds like there must be some underlying issue. . .I hope the vet can figure it out.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Hi Missy-Just another idea...I'm definitely a stress eater, when I'm stressed out hunger has nothing to do with eating. Could he be anxious about something??? The other thing I'm learning, low fat food doesn't always satisfy your body and you may not feel full. Could it be the food isn't satisfying him? Wish I could help you, worrying over what they're eating is so hard. :hug:


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Missy, I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to see Cash suffer through diet and weight issue. I wish I had some suggestions. I do hope that you are able to find a good diet soon to satisfy Cash. :hug:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I love you guys. thank you for all your thoughtful responses. 
I have to say that Ryan you may be the right on-- having my own weight issues I tend to be impatient whenever I start a diet... And I did think he was bored which is why I try to get him to play when he starts whining-- but he is like a hound dog on a scent-- he has a one track mind which makes me thing he is really hungy-- because when he is not I CAN distract him with play. Cash does get a 1.5 to 2 mile walk every morning and a few shorter potty walks throughout the day...He hates his park walks and is always dragging behind. he is much happier playing--but alas Jasper rarely plays. 

Dave, it has only been 4 days on the new regimen..so I am a little embarrassed to write sabine just yet. 

Beverly, I am tempted to do the free feed too.... The Core Reduced Fat is a pretty good kibble and not as low fat as others and still has 33% protein, 80% of which is from meat. And he is eating it, so I think this is a good kibble. Maybe I should try it for both meals.

Chasza, I have not seen you post before. Welcome to the Forum. The raw I was feeding him was a commercial raw so I did not add any vitimins other than fish oil. I also, up until about a month ago was cooking the raw but finally was convinced the error of my ways. I at one point was adding Prozyme plant enzymes but on researching found that prozyme is used as an appetite stimulator so stopped that. His poops were smaller and looser on the raw-- and perfect on kibble. they were most perfect as a puppy on purina, but he was still a chow hound. he has had an occaissional slimy poop but never more than a day-- throwing up can always be traced back to a bullystick. Thyroid panel was done by Dr. Jean Dodds/hemopet in CA 

Jeanne, Cushings is in interesting thought...I too have been on prednisone and know how it makes you starving and blow up. I will check with my vet. They did the full thyroid panel and cbc but not sure how indepth it was. 

Sheri, Amy, Julie, Jane, Ann, Marj, Poornima, Amanda, and anyone I might have missed thank you for your support. All ideas are welcomed! It is very hard to watch him whine. 

I am off today to weigh him at the vets (and get the next dosage of Frontline---since he has not lost the weight) and then get a new scale.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Missy,
I am sorry to hear about Cash. I hope he is ok health wise. I know how you feel. Scudder is ALWAYS hungry. He is constantly sniffing the floor for scraps. To my surprise, I weighed the boys yesterday and they both dropped a pound or more. I think they were 16 plus pounds, now they are 14.5 and 15. I feed the evo, but cut back to 1/2 cup a day with boiled chicken, and dehydrated chicken. They also get chews and treats. I want to try Fromms, because it lower in calories. I feel good about their weights now. I hope you get to the bottom of this. I know how frustrating it can be.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Missy- I think maybe just try one thing at a time so you can keep an eye on what is working and what isn't and not overwhelm yourself more than you are. I can hear your frustration and confusion in your posts.

Personally, I do free fed but always have as Isabelle had some weight gaining issues when she was younger so my vet told me I should always leave out dry kibble for Belle. I don't know if it is because mine always have had it, I don't even go thru a bowl each week. Once in a great while, I see them take a few bites and usually at night. Ironically, I have always had the other problem- underweight dogs. But I just am saying while this works for me, I grew up with Goldens and this wouldn't have worked for them.

I also would say if you could find someone to do the nutritional consulting in person that would be better. While this person might be good for some- to be honest this over the phone without seeing the dog in person seems kind of counterintuitive to me. She doesn't put her hands on your dog which seems rather important when saying what your dog should and shouldn't eat.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

I have to wonder about why you would feed a mix of raw, kibble and canned? It sounds as if you might as well throw in the proverbial kitchen sink. Seems to me you should stick to one maybe two at most. But all three as a normal part of a diet just seems a little much to me. 

I agree with Ryan, depending on the change in diet you may have to up the exercise level for Cash to compensate.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

MIssy - I had to put my guys on a weight control diet as well. They are on the WD which is vet perscribed. I did notice when they first went on it, that they were all very hungry. They eventually got used to it, but still to this day just about have a heart attack waiting for me to prepare their meals. You might want to check the salt content in the diet Wellness. I know that sometimes that will make them retain water - which is what is most likely is. 
Good luck with finding the "perfect' food!


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Missy, sorry you have to deal with this once AGAIN. Like Jeanne, I thought of Cushing's, which would explain the incredible hunger, weight gain, and even the panting (possibly caused by water retention getting heavy on his heart). Does he pee more/a lot compared to Jasper? I am not familiar with Cushing's in dogs at all, but that's what I would think of after having ruled out thyroid problems in a human.


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## karlabythec (Nov 9, 2008)

Just wanted to say I'm sorry you are so frustrated...I don't know what to tell you...what if he had a raw bone to chew on when hungry?


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Missy, as you know I free feed Evo small bites kibble and they don't get any other food. Sometimes I think that maybe if they have the kibble there all the time then possibly it is not such an issue to them.
I had mine at the vet's yesterday and Vinny weighs 21.2 and Lulu weighs 7.2. They feel exactly the same in relation to their bone structure. The vet said Vinny is not an ounce overweight because you can easily feel his spine and ribs. 
Some of these guys are just bigger. 
I would be interested to see what Cash would do with just kibble and free feeding.
Carole


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

karlabythec said:


> *what if he had a raw bone to chew on when hungry*?


I was thinking the same thing...maybe a nice meaty chew bone would help to curb his appetite? 
If you think about it all of the commercially prepared diets have done all hard work for the dog...maybe he's just not satifying his need to work for his food...might be worth a try???


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Ok, gonna go get a scale and some raw meaty bones.... guess I remove the marrow right? that is full of fat. 

It is NOT my imagination. Just got back from the vets office and Cash is now a full 24 lbs (they even took off his leash this time.) A month ago when he got his shots he was 23.4 up from 22.4 last year. I mean a 1/2 lb in a month on me is nothing, but on a little dog that is huge! My vet was not there. but had a discussion with the vet tech, who said cushings was something to check for. especially with the hunger. The Vet us going to call me tomorrow. But I picked up his FRONTLINE blue. Because he is now definitely over 22lbs. sigh. 

I am going to write Sabine to see what she says... but this is not working for him.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I'll be anxious to hear what your vet has to say. Surely there is something else that needs to be looked at! My thoughts are with you and your Cash!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

I hope you get some answers from your vet, sorry this is dragging on so long for all of you!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Missy, wow, that's crazy. I hope you can figure out what is going on. I have to say that I'm a little wary of using a nutritionist over the phone. I really don't think she can get a good idea as to what he needs without touching him, but of course I could be wrong!

I don't mean this in a bad way at all, so please don't take it that way, but have you ever actually tried to keep Cash on kibble only or canned only or raw only for longer periods of time? I don't mean from this one last experience, I mean from before. It just seems to me that you are constantly changing his food and what he eats. If I were you, I would pick one type of kibble (or canned or raw, whatever you want to choose) and stick to it for at least 4 weeks, preferably longer - unless it's obviously physically bad for him, of course. Don't worry about his losing weight just yet - feed him what you are supposed to be feeding him based on the bag/can and see how he does. He might always eat poop - even if he's not hungry! That's something that you might just have to deal with, as gross as it is - and trust me, I know it is. If 2 meals a day isn't working, try free feeding. It's possible that he just likes to eat in smaller quantities more often.

Good luck... I hope you can figure it out!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Lina, I do not take this wrong at all. I have thought this myself. Both boys were on cooked raw (crazy I know) for a very long time. And up until I made this change with the nutritionist Cash was on only RAW for a month...He was so hungry on the raw (but not as hungry as he is now) -- I started giving him kibble in am instead. But he had been on raw for a month. 

I have seen the difference consistency has made with Jasper (even with a crappy kibble-- the only one he'll eat) the problem is I haven't found anything that works for Cash. He does seem to balloon when I introduce any kibble (carbs?)


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Missy, it might be that he retains water with the kibble more so than the raw. Just an idea as when I cut carbs out of my diet I immediately lose 7-10lbs, but it's ALL water weight, which I gain back easily.

Is Cash finicky? I mean, you say he's hungry, of course, but does he eat anything at all as long as it's in front of him or is he picky? Because you can definitely try a grain-free kibble like Innova Evo, Orijen or the Fromm's Surf and Turf and feed him the amount that it says on the bag - not less until you can get his food problems figured out. I know you've tried a LOT of different kinds of kibble, but have you tried really sticking to any of the three kibbles I posted above?

Also, is it possible that Cash isn't actually hungry (not from now, but before), just acts that way? Hitchcock is a total food hound and he'd eat eat eat until he explodes if I let him. He'll whine for food all the time as well. He doesn't have a problem with weight at all (he's very lean) but I'm sure if I gave into him he would. Perhaps Cash knows that you give him more food when he whines/sulks so he's learned this behavior and will use it to his advantage? I'm just throwing out ideas here...


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Missy said:


> Well I feel like he is doubling in size every other day this week. where as I could feel his ribs if I poked-- it's getting harder. I can only describe it as a woman gaining weight that quickly when we store water. But he is panting more,


I left the parts in your post that really concern me. I'd have his heart and lungs checked. An xray will tell you if fluid is building up, especially around the heart.
If he's actually hungry, green beans and carrots are something he can freely eat and not gain weight


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

I was also concerned about having an overweight dog with free-feeding. 

Scout is a ravenous eater and will eat his meal PLUS Lincoln's if we are not vigilant. When I left him at the breeder's for 10 days last summer while we were on vacation, he was free-fed with the rest of the pack. I thought I'd be getting back a blimp of a dog, but he was just the same, surprisingly. (Actually better, because she gave him a nice oil treatment for his coat!)

I still don't free feed at home though - it's just my personal preference not to leave food out all the time.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

You guys are great to go over all the possibilities with me. 

Lina, I tried the EVO about a year ago, and he developed this bacterial rash and he gained some weight right away too. of course I do not know for sure that it was the cause of the bacterial rash-- but the vet suggested to go back to the NV medallions even though I was cooking them at the time. I have not tried the other two. He has been picky in his life...but he is not now. 

For now I am going to go back to the medallions alone until I speak to the vet and have her look at him. 

The thing with the grain free kibbles is they still have quite a bit of potato in them which are carbs if he is carb intolerant.

Jan, I am less concerned with his heart today as the panting was only last night during his frantic quest for food. But I am sure he will be seen by the vet this week. 

Leave it to my boys to get me to get on a scale myself...LOL. Had to make sure my new scale matched the vets.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Lina said:


> I have to say that I'm a little wary of using a nutritionist over the phone.


Oh boy do I agree.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Missy, you have a lot of suggestions and recommendations to consider. If you consider grain free kibble to try, Natural Balance Potato and Duck is grain free. I mix homecooked duck or chicken and potato and carrots with it. 

I do hope you get answers soon and Cash gets back into appropriate weight range. Good luck!


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

i can only tell you what i know based on my expeirence with django and his weight gain with the prednisone which makes him hungry all the time!. the vet told me not to switch to a weight loss kibble, he's on wellness super 5 mix. he said you are better off feeding him less than the weight loss kibble, it's empty calories. i feed my dog 1/4 2x a day and i literally top the food off at the top of the measuring cup not a big scoop full. i have cut his treats back almost 70% he gets 2 of one kind and 4 of the other which are cut in half so he thinks he's getting more. and lots of chews. he lost a pound and we have about 1/2 to go. lots of walks help too, when he gets hungry i just take him upstairs or down to my office to get his mind off things. also, train him with his kibble, it takes longer to eat, it causes mental stimulation and exhaustion so they are too tired to think about food. it takes time to loose the weight but if you are consisitent, it works! good luck.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

thank you Ageleke. I do keep thinking about your experience with Django. Didn't he gain some weight before you knew he had addison's? and before the prednisone? I seem to remember you trying a lot of different foods too.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Missy, How about Cash's treat/other food consumption? Or is he only eating his dog food and NOTHING else?? Cause all those little extras can mount to big gains in time...

Ryan


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## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

You said that his poops were small, but a bit mushy on the raw. I *think* that they might be mushier b/c it was so much meat. I think they were smaller b/c more was being digested. 

I think it's a good idea to ask the vet about cushings or atypical addisons, just in case, since the weight gain combined with the hungier is worrisome.

But let's just say for a moment that those tests come back fine and his problem is considered to be diet related. IF this were to be the case, this is what I am thinking might be the possiblities.

You think he gains weight super easy on carbs, so you don't want to do kibble. We know that the diet ones aren't that good. When you were feeding kibble, did you feed as much as the bag said to feed? I never could feed the quantity that they suggested - I always fed less than the bag said as my guys would have gained a lot on their suggestions. But, let's say that you fed less than the bag's suggested weight, and he still gained.......so you think he is carb sensitive. *** note at end ***

So, you went to the raw medallions. I don't recall their exact makeup, but I assume they had liver, ground bones, and other vitamins added in. But, they are small in quanity, and so I can understand why a dog might not get full on them -since there are no fillers. If they didn't have the proper nutrients added back in, then that could also be a factor in his hunger (wanting more to get the nutrients that his body is needing).

Cooked boneless food isn't bad - as long as you've got the basics down. There are tons of raw purists out there - I spent enough time on these boards with my guys issues, but I don't believe this to be the perfect answer for those who only feed meat and bones, and not the answer at all for some dogs (such as mine).

Here's my suggestion. For a short period of time (like a month), you can go without the needed calcium and other nutrients for most dogs. So, my suggestion is to get an easy to cook meat that you don't think he is allergic to. Even better to get something he hasn't been on in awhile. Perhaps low fat ground turkey or chicken. Cook the meat up. Now to this you can add non-carbs. In fact, with this, you must add in veggies or carbs in order to supply the fiber or the meat won't move thru the system. For calories you add grains, potatoes, or non-grains such as quinoa. For cutting calories, you add well cooked, mushed green beans, squash, turnips, etc. 

For a long time (before the diagnosis of pancreatitis and my having to cut back on the amount of meat), I fed 65 - 70% cooked meat and then added well cooked appropriate veggies that I mushed up. The more meat will have more calories. If you don't know about it, a good place to check on things is nutritiondata. com. I used this place all the time to figure out how much calcium to add. You can use it to figure up calories, and base his daily rations out in calories. You could do a balance of say 50% meat, 35% veggies, and 15% carb. 

Doing this for a few weeks or so shouldn't hurt him in terms of nutrients (and not getting calcium, etc), but it might help to know if he feels hungrier on this. IF there is not an underlying serious issue (which you will be discussing with the vet), and IF it is just diet related, then this might help. The raw just wasn't very much food in quantity, the low fat kibble probably isn't giving enough fat to satisfy, so this might be a good compromise and might be bulky enough to help satisfy. Speaking of fat, dogs that don't have pancreas and other fat-issues do need fat, and it does help to make them feel full. So, maybe try using something with a bit of fat in it, and not using extremely low fat. Low fat may be better to lose weight, but giving some little bit of fat will satisfy more. 

My guys have food allergies, SIBO and pancreas issues. I know that my guys have issues with absorbing nutrients and it makes them much hungrier. Mine can't go long at all with a vitamin supplement, and they are generally much hungrier than when I did feed the kibble years ago. (food allergies and seizure type activity keep me from feeding kibble now), so I do know what you mean about him being so hungry. It goes beyond the normal 'hungry dog'. The things you have described are, in my opinion, past the normal hungry dog behaviour. 

*** If dogs can be carb-sensitive, then it makes me think maybe it is from his insulin levels. Pancreas issues do affect insulin levels. I suspect that insulin levels could be a contributing factor to weight gain. If you decide to pursue this line of thinking, then please know that your vet's regular testing will likely not pick up any problems. They just aren't sensitive enough. I recommend having a full GI panel done thru TAMU - Texas A & M Univeristy to look for epi, SIBO, and pancreatitis. While your dog doesn't have epi, the tests need to be run all together b/c the results from one tests (whether negative or positive) affect the decision on some of the other testing. If you do this, your vet will want to send it thru Antech (TAMU licensed it to Antech so that acute cases of pancreatitis could be picked up faster and more frequently). However, it costs more money, one test is done at Antech and they send the other to TAMU and it sets up more opportunity for errors (which happened to us on one of the tests that was sent to Antech). In this case, I would insist they send it directly to TAMU. Clear directions are included on their website which I printed off and gave to vet bc it must be really marked as to which building it goes to, etc. 

My personal (clearly a non-vet) opinion, would be to look into the cushings/addisons/atypical addisons first. If negative, then do the TAMU panel and check for SIBO, pancreas issues. IF this is fine, and there aren't any other tests the vet can think of, and Cash still continues to have the same problems.....then I would go back and re-check the first tests. I don't know about Cushings for sure, but I do know that a dog can have Addisons or Atypical Addisons for a long time before the test pick it up and it can take having several tests before finding it. Not diagnosing Addisons is dangerous, but I don't know about Cushings. I do know with Cushings there is frequently a 'pot-belly' appearance - where the muscle tone is lost. The dog isn't fat overall, but just this big belly that is hanging down. They also lose hair, I think. 

I am obviously not a vet, and so the insulin thing might sound way off, and I don't know a whole lot about Cushings or Addisons (although if you google vetinfo for dogs, then Dr. Mike has a lot of good info from different questions that people asked him about Cushings on there, so by reading his replies, you might get more insight as to whether you think Cash is headed in that direction or not).

I am very proactive b/c the local vets were not helpful at all with my dogs issues. I would find something out and tell the vet and she didnt care that I was right about something and she was wrong. She never suggested the TAMU testing - I had to learn about it from websites and I was the one who requested it. When we got a diagnosis of pancreatitis, two seperate vets gave me no advice other than to give enzymes (this is pathetic to be the only advice b/c this is very serious). Really shamful, but I have had to do hours and hours and hours of research myself as my many visits to the vets were not helpful overall. I now have a fabulous internist from my state's vet school who actually knows her stuff. So, if all else fails, that is my advice. Gather your tests and see a specialist at your state school if nothing turns up. The regular vets just don't have the schooling to know about stuff that isn't everyday type events. Just telling you in case you end up stuck and your gut still tells you something isn't right. Listen to your gut -- you know whether Cash is hungry b/c he is a food hound, or if it's b/c there is more going on with him. Saying all that, I am not saying your vet isn't good. I'm just saying that if you don't get answers, but still think something isn't right....then move on to a specialist. I think vets are great at many things.......I've just learned thru difficult years that they just don't have the experience with more unusual cases, if that's what it turns out to be.

I hope, though, that it turns out to be something really easy. It is a stuggle and it is so frustrating dealing with these unknowns.........and when I start to fix the food, and my guys come in begging and whining like they haven't eaten in two weeks (and they never did this years ago), well it is so hard to listen to as I fix their food as fast as I can! I am upset by it, but I can't get mad, b/c I know they are really hugry and it's not just 'begging' (they are on another elimination diet right now and aren't getting everything they really do need, so it's very understandable...) 

Sigh. My guys send doggie kisses to Cash, and tell him they hope it's just somthing like not getting the right food for him, and that he is feeling full and happy very soon! We'll keep tabs on this to find out what the vet says, as I am very curious as to what he will say and what he thinks it might be!


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

Missy,
I know I don't have all the facts as I am not on here enough to read every post, but if he wasn't fat, why change his food to begin with if he was doing well?


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Missy, whoever said dogs have a short memory, obviously they are not around havanese..because they have a great memory! But if you are basically cutting out treats and he is sitting there whining about it, it will take a few weeks for him to stop (or give up) At least, that's been my experience when I break one of Gucci's habits and I've had to break a couple of them because they drove me crazy. (ie..drinking out of our water bottles)

As for the core, the nutritionist probably recommended it because of the protein and less carbs.

Since its getting warmer outside, why not just increase the exercise and take him on a few walks a day and see if that helps, especially around 'treat' time, even if its a quick 15 minute walk it'll get his mind off the treats and start a new 'habit'.

I don't know about Cash, but Gucci is such a creature of habit, she likes her *routine*.

Hugs,
Kara


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

I did not read thru the entire thread, just saw the early post.
Has he been tested for DIABETES?


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

django lost 2 lbs during his days of being sick before we diagnosed him with addisons, then with the prednisone, he gained it back and then some. prednisone increases the appetite. i'd check with the vet to make sure everythings okay with your pup, blood work could determine that and BE STRONG! it's soooo hard when your dog want more FOOD!!!!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Guys, thank you so much for this...I have to run off to work but reply more later. just wanted to thank you. 

Just for a quick history---Cash has always been a pudge and a hungy boy... as a puppy he went from 5.5 pounds at 3 months to 12 lbs at 5months....17 at 7 months...he was not fat then...but just grew so fast. at a year he was 20 lbs and still that was ok... not ideal but ok. but he really should be back to 20 or 21 lbs. He has been 22ish pound since then and it is the trying to figure out what works best for him that has lead us to these changes... Ironically, he did seem to due better on the "cooked" medallions that I used to do...so maybe there is something right with what chaza is saying that he is not absorbing the raw. Ok maybe not too much more later... Oh and Ryan we have been doling out 25 cals of Canz Real Meat treats a day that he can get and we are only going through half of them....now I don't know how many calories are in rabbit poop!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Hey Missy, I don't have any suggestions but I'm sorry you're worrying so much about poor Cash. :hug:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Have I mentioned lately how wonderfully my usually worrisome dog Jasper is doing? He has reached his stride. less nervous, more energy, likes to hang out with us... he has even picked up a toy every so often. And he is a lean, mean, fighting machine on Royal Canine kibble in the am and raw at night. He has never been better. Which is why I know different dogs need different things...and what we feed them makes a huge difference. I just haven't found out what works for Cash yet.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

That's it!! It's the rabbit poop! And worms! LOL.
xxoox
Carole


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

_*"he said you are better off feeding him less than the weight loss kibble, it's empty calories. "*_

This is what we tell customers at the store all the time. Sure, there are some pets that really need the 'low fat', but it is usually better to feed a high quality food, but just feed less of it.

Feeding raw usually produces less poop and it's drier (almost white), crumbly. Wet poop from raw isn't the norm.

Missy, this is terribly frustrating, I know! There are many options and you are covering many bases already. I'll be anxious to hear what your vet thinks and does.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Ok-- I just got off the phone with my wonderful vet who put me at ease. She said there is nothing in his blood work or physical that would make her think cushings. addisons, or diabetes. She corrected me that he had actually only gained 3 onces in the last month (oops I guess I rounded it down to 23.5) 

She knows how strict I have been and is not thinking that he is getting extra food anywhere. She is suggesting we try to up his metabolism a bit. Instead of taking him on one long walk in the morning where he drags along-- take him on a few shorter brisker walks. She said he reminds her of a corgi a big dog in a little dogs body. She also thinks I should go back to the medallions only (possibly even upping the ammount to see if that gives him more energy) and add lightly steamed veggies if he is still hungry. But she assured me that all his blood work was great! And that the only sign he showed of any of the above diseases was hunger and weight gain. She would love him to not gain any more weight-- but she said it could just be who he is- She said there is a drug that will make him not hungry but that she is not there yet with him. 

And she assured me the rabbit poop was not making him fat-- that it was all grass and vegetation....LOL.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

How much rabbit poop is he eating?! lol

Ryan


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

That's good news, Missy!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Great news! Nice to hear she was able to put your mind at ease.


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## lcy_pt (Aug 17, 2007)

Hi Missy! Nothing to add but did you ever hear back from the online nutritionist?

Harley & Seymour tell Cash to hang in there!!


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Wow, Missy . . . just read through all this and sorry you have been having so much trouble. It sounds like you are getting lots of good advice and that your vet is excellent at helping your figure this out.

After owning labs who will eat anything you put in front of them (including plastic toys and entire flowerbeds), I feel your pain. My first lab, Molly, could look at food and gain, and my current one, Barrett, has always been lean, but hungry. With Molly, I had to be very strict, but she even ate the grass in the backyard and would run around in the house like she was on a crazed mission to find dropped crumbs. My DFIL always overfed her when he kept her because he couldn't stand it, and we used to have huge friendly battles over not overdoing it. I had to have her impacted anal glands expressed once after he kept her for a month and get a searing reprimand from the vet about how heavy she was. If I knew then what I do now about dog foods, I would probably have made some changes and tried to keep her happier, but I'm still not sure it would have mattered.

You also mentioned Cash licking the rug . . . I do know that sometimes dogs do that to clean their tongue after they eat . . . just a thought.

Jackson loves to eat, and like Lina mentioned, he will whine for treats to the point of annoyance, even after he just ate.



> Also, is it possible that Cash isn't actually hungry (not from now, but before), just acts that way? Hitchcock is a total food hound and he'd eat eat eat until he explodes if I let him. He'll whine for food all the time as well. He doesn't have a problem with weight at all (he's very lean) but I'm sure if I gave into him he would.


I had to figure out something that would help stop the craving and last a long time. The flossies don't seem to last long enough and the bully sticks smell (although I understand there are some that don't), so now I am trying Merrick wishbones which have really done well and are reasonable . . . they seem to last for several days. I make Jackson keep it in his bed area or he will carry it all over the house. It also wears him out! It is made from a cow's Achilles tendon so it has a fat end. I know Merrick also make bones with a little meat still on them.

Hope things get better and glad he's not sick . . . sounds like you just have a big healthy boy!


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I had to figure out something that would help stop the craving and last a long time. The flossies don't seem to last long enough and the bully sticks smell (although I understand there are some that don't), so now I am trying *Merrick wishbones *which have really done well and are reasonable . . . they seem to last for several days. I make Jackson keep it in his bed area or he will carry it all over the house. It also wears him out! It is made from a cow's Achilles tendon so it has a fat end. I know Merrick also make bones with a little meat still on them.


Thanks for the tip Kathy! I'm always looking for long lasting treats for Todd and the Merrick wishbones sound like something that he might enjoy


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Kathy, I 2nd the thanks on the tip on the Merrick wishbones-- (does anyone know how many calories are in a bully stick?) 

I did hear back from the nutritionist. And she was wonderful and supportive. She said that if I am going to do only the commercial raw-- I should substitute in 25% lean ground meat as she believes the calcium content in the commercial raw is high if given day in and day out and that it should help with the cost as well.
She did not recommend any additional suppliments to the fish oil, acidophilus and bcomplex. But, my vet had mentioned l-cartinine, although she did not know enough about it to recommend it-- but that it seems to be in all the weight loss and even some regular kibbles as a metabolism booster... so I asked Sabine (the nutritionist) and she said she was not sure she would use it on Cash as it may make him hungrier but if I wanted to try it --it would not harm him and she gave me dosing instructions. 

I have to say that I would have preferred a person looking at and meeting Cash. But I do think this woman knows her stuff. And you certainly get your money's worth. not only does she do your initial consult but she is very good at answering questions and helping you to change directions... You know, looking at Cash all you would see is a pudgy cute dog with a calm demeanor. There would have been no way she or the vet could guess he was so carb intolerant. To each their own, when it comes to things like this service, but even though it didn't quite work out as expected for Cash. I think Sabine is genuine and that her service is a good one.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Missy- not that you probably need any more ideas but I have to add this one as well. My obedience instructor and my conformation instructor are really into raw. They were talking to a student who had an overweight dog and they said they only dogs they knew that were heavy on raw were fed commercial raw. They do all the grinding, etc themselves. I don't know why this would be (any thoughts from raw people?) but they were telling him what exactly to buy, etc. I only have Belle on raw and I am not committed enough to make it myself and it is cheaper when you only fed 3 medallions a day. But I just had to share as that is what they told someone who was feeding one of the commercial raw products.

Sorry like you want anymore ideas at this point!

Amanda


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Yeah, making your own raw is deffinatly an alternative (and cheaper) but more time consuming ofcourse.. Daniel has a great recipe online here somwhere...

Also, I'm not sure about the commercial raw having to much calcium.. maybe 1 or 2 brands that your specialist knows about perhaps? But all the manufacturers have their own blend of ingredients and suppliments which they add, there is no way they all follow the same formula..

Ryan


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

yup-- there is no way I am doing my own raw Amanda...way too confusing. we'll see how it goes. Cash actually has a lot more energy today. we did living room agility!!! lol...I made him jump from chair to chair to chair to couch for one tiny morsel of food... and I think it tired him out, gave him some exercise. I may be able to save some money by buying the patties instead of the medallions.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Missy-Agreed, they know i do commercial but are always trying to get me to convert. I like geting them out of the little bag. I would be willing to buy it from them if they wanted to sell it in little medallions  I say go for the agility!! Dash has dropped a half pound in 3 months (problem is he didn't need too!) But if you see the pic I posted in facebook you can see why


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

you know if I think back...truly, he started to gain more weight when I started experimenting with kibbles. And I did that for a couple of reasons...first, Jasper just seems so much better with kibble in the morning. and two, the price of the medallions skyrocketed and I was thinking it would be much better if I could get him on a good kibble for one meal a day. But it looks like that is not going to work out.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

It is hard when they each do good on something different- cost wise and having to get them all a separate plate and keeping from eating each other's food. Dash won't do raw period and Dora has issues eating too fast and getting sick with raw. So I only have Belle on it but I would put all 3 if it worked best for them. I do the rotation diet with Dora and some days give her raw. I just have to slow her down and give her a bit at a time.


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

I wonder if you could freeze raw in a kong or marrow bone to slow them down..I may try that on Todd since he tends to gulp his medallions down too.


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

I wonder why dogs would get fat on commercial raw. Too many carbs from carrots and fruits in it maybe? Amanda, why did your instructors try to get you to convert to making your own? I don't think I could manage that, either. Partly the gross out factor because I'm sort of a quasi-vegetarian, getting the ratios right, and just the time involved. I gotta think a dog who likes raw, fat or no, is not going to be happy about switching to kibble because mom doesn't want to grid whole chickens and beef hearts.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Petaluna said:


> I wonder why dogs would get fat on commercial raw.


Do they add oil into the commercial raw? That would be a source of hidden calories....


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

It states how many calories are in the commercial raw on most of the packagaing I've seen. So that would include all ingrediants in the food.

Ryan


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Diane- It is because it is already made for you and you are putting all your trust in one company and their one recipe. I am sure both of them would do home cooked before a kibble based diet as well. One of them is a homeopath. They are great to get alternative advice from. Both of them are very into natural treatments instead of prescriptions, etc. I will ask why they felt that about commercial raw but I am sure it is because you can't control the ration of things going in- carbs, oils, etc. Like kibble you just divy out how many medallions or patties. Belle has done fine on it


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## Petaluna (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Amanda, I'm gobbling up (no pun intended - lol!) all the information I can get on raw, from both sides of the camp and in between, since that's what I plan to feed and hope it works for us. I'm glad to hear Belle is doing well on it. I can see myself switching it up with different commercial raw, or adding things occasionally to try to make sure all my bases are covered. I have holistic vet I like and hopefully she can advise, as well. Actually what I like about the medallions is the fact that everything is (supposedly) in there that they need. I fed my yorkie raw, but I did it myself and made some mistakes, and I thought it would be safer to use something that was already portioned for optimal nutrition. 

I read something in Diane Klumb's book "The Havanese" about raw diet and the evolution of the modern dog that I'd like to find out if it's fact or fiction, and I may start another thread about that.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

My guess on why some dogs would gain on commercial raw is that it is all done for them...there is no ripping apart bone to get to the meat, etc.... also, I suspect that people feed their dogs more of the commercial than they are supposed to...because it really does not look like much (unless you cut it up)... and if you have a bigger dog and you are supposed to feed 7 oz but it comes in an 8 oz patty my guess is that dog gets 8 ounces.

My Vet says her dogs could eat as much NV raw as they could and they would not gain. So as in all these food issues, each dog is very different.

I just wanted to add...that I just called Bravo and found out the calories for their 4 0z patties-- there is a huge difference between them and NV

Bravo 4 OZ patties are: Beef: 135 cal, Chicken: 125 cal, Turkey 140 cal. as opposed to the NV which are 65 cals per once- so pretty much double the calories. Maybe switching to bravo will make Cash feel more satisfied!


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

I bought two merrick wishbones today for Todd and Sophie...Sophie's finishing off the 2nd one as I type this...she *really* loves them! 
Todd chewed on his for awhile but Sophie stole it from him when she finished hers...so much for the wishbones


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Shame on you, Sophie! You have to share with Todd!

She already ate one in one day? Wow! Jackson takes 2-3 days on it, but I also tend to put it up after he's had it awhile. I left his leftover one in his bed tonight while we went out to dinner, and he was _so_ happy.


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Shame on you, Sophie! You have to share with Todd!
> 
> *She already ate one in one day*? Wow! Jackson takes 2-3 days on it, but I also tend to put it up after he's had it awhile. I left his leftover one in his bed tonight while we went out to dinner, and he was _so_ happy.


no no no....she ate *2* in about 5 hrs time :jaw:
She thinks that she's in doggy heaven with all of the treats she's finding in Todd's toy box...lol 
I only have her for a couple of days...I *have* to spoil her


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I had a feeling you'd be told not to worry about Cash. I didn't think he had any systemic problem, but it's good that you were reassured by your vet. She sounds good! Stepping up his exercise is always a good plan, something we need to do here too. Badly !

Eva wrote:* "I wonder if you could freeze raw in a kong or marrow bone to slow them down..I may try that on Todd since he tends to gulp his medallions down too."*

GREAT idea, Eva! I love this. We could thaw the medallions in the fridge, then stuff some into a kong and refreeze it. I'm sure it would be o.k. to do that and it is a great way for Cash (or my own dogs) to take their time eating it. I have a towel that they go on when they eat raw meaty bones, though Ricky prefers to eat alone on the deck outside.

Amanda, Belle only gets 3 medallions/day? How much does she weigh again? I have to start watching my little Sammy who has gained 1 lb. over the past 8 or so months. Guess with us doing very little physical activity in the winter, he's packed on some weight. He's 10.5 lbs. now and I give him 5-5.5 medallions/day. Ricky, at 17 lbs. gets 6.

Missy, I'm not surprised at the huge spike in the Nat. Var. Raw as we have seen it here too. 35-40% hike is ridiculous! Our store doesn't carry it anymore. We have Carnivore now and are getting a local supplier for another raw food soon.

I really like your new plan of action now, with Cash. As to giving advice/consultation w/o seeing the dog... it happens a lot and I have no problems with it. When customers come into the store, looking for advice, we chat a long while and I always ask, 'how old is your dog?', how much does he weigh?, what are you feeding him?, and on and on. I get a very good idea of lifestyle and the dog's health and makeup and we go from there with food recommendations. It all depends on how you ask the questions and what feedback you get. I would definitely consult a nutrition expert by phone or email, w/o any worry. 

After all, don't we do that here all the time? lol


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

just wanted to update you all. Cash is back to being a normal hungry dog. He seems to be doing well on all medallions with a little bit of extra ground turkey (basically replacing 1.5 medallions a day with ground turkey) The turkey is less per once than the medallions so he is getting more food. The "blowing up" look is gone. And he seems in better spirits...only whining for his food when it is out on the counter but we are waiting to feed him. We have been taking him for a few extra shorter faster walks as well and doing living room agility every night. I'll will continue to keep you posted-- but just wanted to let you know how it is going so far.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Glad he's doing better Missy. I hope he's not worrying you quite so much anymore.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Missy, now that's great success for such a short time!


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

That's great, Missy! Hope the progress continues.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Missy- great news that it worked out so quickly for you!!!

Marj- just so you or no one gets confused! Belle is my maltese who is 5lbs give or take a few ounces. She gets 3 medallions. For her weight, it should be 2.3 oz but she is like a regular maltese on speed. She gained some weight at first but has gone back down


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I swear kibble (carbs?) is like steroids for Cash it makes him starving and cranky. will you guys please remind of this when I get it in my head to try another 'NEW' kibble... or try to get my boys both on the same food... won't work-- jasper and cash are like night and day.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

*Cash has lost almost a lb *

Went to the Vet today to have Jas' AG's expressed so of course I weighed Cash. 23.2 down from 24 a month ago. My Vet was very happy and impressed. Jasper is down 5 ounces too to lean 18.4. She was so excited because she says it is the first time in year that they have gone down. She likes their new diets :whoo:

The boys are down to one bully stick a month. I think that has been a huge help-- at 29 calories an inch a 7 inch bully equivilient to a meal. you don't think of bully's as having calories but they are loaded. and with Jasper he always leaves half-- but guess who moves in and wolfs down the leftovers...

But the best thing is Cash is no longer famished. He is very content as long as he doesn't get a bit of simple carbs.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

*We are all overweight here too!*



Missy said:


> The boys are down to one bully stick a month. I think that has been a huge help-- at 29 calories an inch a 7 inch bully equivilient to a meal. you don't think of bully's as having calories but they are loaded.


I'm glad you posted this and I'm glad things are going well!

OMG, my boys have gained quite a bit of weight over the winter and I hadn't realized it.  My hubby weighed Lincoln and he is 19 pounds - he needs to lose a good solid pound. But what was more horrifying was Scout. He had been a steady 14.8 pounds for over a year, but has ballooned to 16.3 ! I had noticed he was a bit more "cuddly" than usual.....

I have been giving them more pizzles as chewies - I'm sure that hasn't helped. I am giving them less kibble, starting today.

I gained 3 pounds over the winter too. Now we all have "winter weight" to lose!


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Missy said:


> Went to the Vet today to have Jas' AG's expressed so of course I weighed Cash. 23.2 down from 24 a month ago. My Vet was very happy and impressed. Jasper is down 5 ounces too to lean 18.4. She was so excited because she says it is the first time in year that they have gone down. She likes their new diets :whoo:
> 
> The boys are down to one bully stick a month. I think that has been a huge help-- at 29 calories an inch a 7 inch bully equivilient to a meal. you don't think of bully's as having calories but they are loaded. and with Jasper he always leaves half-- but guess who moves in and wolfs down the leftovers...
> 
> But the best thing is Cash is no longer famished. He is very content as long as he doesn't get a bit of simple carbs.


WOW I never thought about calories in the bully sticks :frusty:
:whoo:Cash:whoo:


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

That's great, Missy! Cash, keep up the good work!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

Wow, Missy! I wish that my weight loss was going as well. And I don't eat Bully Sticks!!!!:biggrin1:


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

mintchip said:


> WOW I never thought about calories in the bully sticks :frusty:
> :whoo:Cash:whoo:


I still remember my reaction when I found out what one was. That's wild, I wonder why it has so many calories?
WTG Cash!!
I don't mean to hijack your thread but I ran into someone I haven't seen in a couple of months today and she told me that I really lost weight then I went to look at beds and the salesperson said something about me having a small frame. Hm.... Anyhow the scale says I'm almost 20 pounds lighter. I guess getting sick for a few weeks has benefits. :focus:


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Cheryl said:


> Wow, Missy! I wish that my weight loss was going as well. And I don't eat Bully Sticks!!!!:biggrin1:


I can lose weight really easily but giving up smoking is sooooooooo hard but I'm sooooooo determined. Wow what a battle! I wish I could give you my lack of interest in food or fattening foods. (and at one time I was busting out of a size 24)


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Oh Missy, I am glad to hear that you are making progress!!


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Missy,
I glad to hear the boys are doing good on their diet...that is really good for Cash. Do you know the calories for a flossie?


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Missy,

Glad to hear your boys are on their way to being abit thinner and alot happier! Beamer has also lost much of his winter belly in the last 6 weeks. (about half a pound!)

Ryan


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Yeah Cash! That's great news Missy, I hope it puts your mind at ease.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

So glad the boys are doing so well! Yeah!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

*calories in cow parts...*

You can tell how ocd I was to help get to the bottom of Cash's problem...I'm on-line searching for "calories in bully sticks"

Well I found it only in one place The Red Barn Site

http://www.redbarninc.com/

If you click on the specific products it brings up nutrition and calories.
I don't use redbarn (only moo) and there could be slight difference's depending on how the cow is raised...but it is a ball park... I mean a cow's ummm bully is a bully is a bully.

is this what a pizzle looks like?
http://www.redbarninc.com/pc-118-15-large-tendons.aspx

176 cals per.

The thing is, unless your dog has a problem or is gaining weight-- you should not worry about it. But if they are... remember that it's pretty much the calories your pup should get in one meal.


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## lcy_pt (Aug 17, 2007)

Missy said:


> You can tell how ocd I was to help get to the bottom of Cash's problem...I'm on-line searching for "calories in bully sticks"


But I'm sooo glad that you are Missy! I too have a food hound (a.k.a. Harley the Hoover) and I tried to find out cal. content on his chew sticks as well. So not that I'll be measuring how much he chews like I was before ound: , at least I feel better allowing him to satisfy his chewing addiction without hovering over him all the time!


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