# HOUSE TRAINING



## murphy

P LEASE TELL ME THERE IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL... We have a just turned 9 month old male who is still not house trained. He will be outside for two hours playing with the kids... or on a two mile walk... and come inside and poop on the floor... he crates at night and has no accidents... he has had his bladder tested just in case for a kidney infection... but there is no rhyme or reason to this... He will lift his leg on the wall... or squat... help!


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## Tom King

See my response on the lifting leg thread.


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## Melissa Miller

Im guessing you have not had him fixed? Are you planning to?
It sounds like he may be marking. Do you have other dogs?

Getting them to poop outside is the hardest. I have finally blocked off every room they can "escape" to. I had to pull up all my rugs, and block off all rooms I cant see. When Im gone, they are kept in our kitchen with wood floors and never have accidents. 

When Im here, its amazing how fast they can sneak off and poop and come back. My boy seems harder to train than my girl was. 

Tom is right, it boils down to supervision. And sometimes I have to go out in the grass and just wait and wait for them to go. Then make a HUGE deal about it. We will see. The best thing is to catch them in the act when they go in the house, so you can tell them no.


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## Tom King

When I'm potty training a dog it's either in an expen or on a leash outside. 

When in an expen I start when the pup first wakes up. I go over and stand next to the litter box (or whatever other method-paper or piddle pads) and say "go potty". This is the important part--NO baby talk. No reinforcement of any kind-not even eye contact. The trainer is allowed to relax and breathe and that's it. The pup of course wants attention and to play but it gets no reinforcement UNTIL exactly after it finishes pottying. Then pick up and "make much" over the puppy and let it out to run and play. When expen training, if after minute or so if nothing happens, I go and sit down in my chair, which is 2 steps away from the pen, and completely ignore the puppy. If the pup goes into the box, I go back to the same position by the box before the pup starts to do anything and say "go potty". As in training any animal, timing is everything.

When training to go outside, the pup is still in an expen, but at the appropriate times it is taken outside. It the same sort of thing. No reinforcement until after the pottying. I stand there and say "go potty". No walking all over the place and sniffing everything until after going potty. No tug of war on the leash allowed-EVER. This might take longer outside because it's too much trouble and the timing might not be right to go back in the house. The first time it might take 20 seconds or it might take all day. It doesn't matter. The important part is the timing of the praise after they go potty. Until then their world stops turning and waits. These dogs are very smart so they will learn the drill quickly WITH PROPER TIMNG OF THE PRAISE.

I can have an eleven week old puppy squatting and trying to pee in the box even if they don't have to do anything just so they can get attention and come out to play. I say eleven week old because that's usually the age that we only have one. I'm sure it would work with an 8 week old too but it doesn't work as good when you have more than one at the time.

This is potty training. Only after potty training can we move on to housetraining. We have Heart Pine floors and Persian rugs. We have twelve dogs that live in and out of the house including 3 intact males. Something over a hundred puppies have come out of here. The rugs have never been pottied on.

The potty training can be messed up though. Pam will occasionally spend a LOT of time with a puppy owner on the phone and email correcting problems. The problem is always too much freedom and the owner assuming that potty trained means housetrained.


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## Tom King

Oh, the 12 week old that we are babysitting for now (we have owners who will drive across two states to leave one of our dogs with us when they leave home for some time or not leave home) barks when she needs to go outside. She likes to go outside but she has already learned that when she goes out that she has to potty first before having fun.


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## Dawna

Tom,
You don't have any problems with your intact males 'marking' in the house, either? 
Wow. You must be the 'Dog Whisperer' LOL. 
I need to send Cru for a visit!
Dawna


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## Sherman

Hi, I got a male Havanese puppy 3 days ago. So far he pees on a puppy pad pretty reliably, but has no idea he's supposed to go outside and do it. He just runs around and waits until he comes inside to pee. I've made sure his scent is at the site where I want him to go. He just gets too excited and then has to take a nap! He's 3 1/2 months old and was only paper trained at the breeder's house. How long will this go on? Thanks.


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## Tom King

Dawna, The only time there's trouble is when we have a female just coming into heat. At the first sign of one maybe forgeting and starting to lift a leg I express my displeasure much louder than a whisper. There's usually a three way traffic jamb at the dog door immediately thereafter. Pam and I are both pack leaders and herd bosses here. From there we use belly bands until the bitch either starts her breeding cycle or until she is over the heat cycle if she's in a rest cycle. Once one of the males starts to breed a female the others accept it. Some even know which ones are theirs and don't offer any kind of challenge. The trouble is with the young bitches who haven't been claimed yet.


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## Tom King

Sherman, Be ready to take the pup outside as soon as possible when it first whimpers to wake up in the morning. It requires something ready quick to slip on. I'd use a leash and go back and read the part about standing in one place and no reinforcement until immediately after the pottying. First thing in the morning is the best time to start as the pup won't be able to resist going for very long.


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## Dawna

Tom,
The only female in our house is spayed. Cru still wants to mark pretty much anything that's standing still. I must not be a very good pack leader. lol
Dawna


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## Sherman

*What do I do now?*

Sherman is 4 months old but just barely recovered from a bout with parasites. He's still on Albon. This afternoon I felt sorry for him because he has to stay in his ex-pen whenever he's in the house. So I barricaded the kitchen and let him run around. He promptly pooped as far from the puppy pad as he could so I put him back in the pen with a fresh pad. He spent about 5 minutes shredding it to pieces. I don't know what else to do. I take him out at least every hour during the day and sometimes he pees on the grass, sometimes he doesn't. He's a sweet little puppy, but sometimes I wish I had stifled the urge to spend a fortune getting him. My cats are infinitely easier!
Any encouragement would be appreciated. I feel so defeated by this 6-lb dynamo.
Thanks,
Carol


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## Tom King

Try the Purina Puppy Litter in a box in the expen. He'll need to burn off any play energy before you first introduce him to the litter or he will probably think it's great fun to dig in it and sling it all around. I'd start with the expen folded in to 2x4 so it just has enough room for his sleeping area and the litter box. He may even sleep in the litter to start with but that's okay. Spread the expen out to a larger size once he starts using the litter which shouldn't be very long. When he first wakes up, don't go to him and baby talk to him. I go over and stand right next to the end where the box is, where I can pick the pup up the instant he is finished pottying. I say, "Go potty" mostly emotionless. Stand there as if you have infinite patience without even eye contact. The instant he has pottied, not after he has finished and is running around the pen, the INSTANT he is finished pick him up and cuddle and make sure he knows you are very pleased with him. Then he can have some free time outside the pen but still not unsupervised. When playtime is over or if he makes any signs of having to potty again he gets put back in the pen. Any time he's in the pen and he goes into the box you need to quickly go over and do the same routine again. It's all in the timing. They really do want to please you. I'm sure his "accidents" are that he just doesn't understand what the right thing to do is. 

All our litters are moved to an expen in our living room so we can do this from the time they are 5 or 6 weeks old. As soon as I have one by itself I can have it trying to potty, even if it doesn't have to, in short order so it can come out to play. It's not cruelty. Other possible alternatives can be cruel. It's training that's necessary to have dogs live in the house with us. 

Even after the pups are potty trained like this, it's still possible to mess it up. They won't behave in a way just because you want them to, but do want to behave in a way that suits you once they understand what is expected. You can't explain it to them by talking to them.

Remember the answer to all housetraining problems is Too Much Freedom and potty training is still not quite housetraining but a step along the way. Once some part of the process becomes messed up you have to go backwards in the process as far as is necessary.

The number one reason dogs are given up to rescue is because of housetraining problems.

Pam has spent a LOT of time a few times with puppy buyers who have assumed that potty trained meant housetrained and gave the pups too much freedom. I've heard the phone conversations sometimes and it's always the same thing over and over until the puppy owner finally understands. Timing and attention are of prime importance. It really doesn't take long once the trainer's timing is correct.

Keep us updated and good luck.


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## Sherman

Thanks, Tom. I agree that timing is important and Too Much Freedom is the enemy. Whenever Sherman makes an inappropriate puddle it's because I've let him out of his ex-pen. I think I've solved his habit of ripping up his puppy pads by putting both-sides sticky tape on it and plastering it to the floor. Also, he's tired now and not interested in shenanigans. I think he's bipolar! I think it's a big mistake to "feel sorry" that he has to stay in his pen in the kitchen when the cats and I are in the living room. I take him outside for 15 minutes at a crack every single hour during the day. I'm retired so I have plenty of time to devote to him. I also think the parasites issue has delayed the potty training a lot and I shouldn't be so hard on myself.
Thank you again for all your advice. I'll let you know if he ever makes progress.


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## Melissa Miller

Carol, 
One thing I use are the washable pee pads. You can get them at Pets Mart I believe. I have three and always use them, and the dogs actually go on them. Havs are such shredders, the paper pee pads are just a challenge for them! HAHA 

Also maybe trying to hide a treat and when he goes potty outside give him that treat and make a BIG deal out of it. 
I cant tell you how many times Im standing out in the grass saying Come Potty and my two are on the door step looking at me. 

It is a difficult process but if you are consistant, you will get there. 

Another thing you could do, is get a spray bottle full of water and if you see them peeing on the carpet, squirt them from accross the room. They hate that. 

I think being outside for a puppy is like a little kid at the baseball field. They forget they are supposed to potty because they get distracted. Like the little kid who misses the fly ball because he is picking weeds. You know? Its gets better!!!!!


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## susaneckert

they like to shred pee pads great I just bought a big box of the LOL


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## Tom King

The plastic frames for the piddle pads really help. When we first started, we trained puppies to newspaper. We didn't have much luck with the piddle pads the first time, as they liked to shred them, until we discovered the frames. When Purina came out with the litter we started using that. Now we are using both the pads and litter. They have no trouble switching to outside. Sam's sells large boxes of "Underpads" in the pharmacy section that are larger, thicker, and cheaper than the piddle pads sold at Walmart and pet stores. Pam found a frame for the large ones somewhere. I'll ask when she gets back.

Pam was going through an airport with Roxie. A man had a newspaper on the chair beside him. She asked if he was finished with it. He said he was, so Pam laid it on the floor and told Roxie to "go potty". She squatted and peed on the paper. Pam folded it up, stuck it in a trashcan, and they caught the connecting flight. It's really the only way to go to have a potty trained dog.


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## susaneckert

Tom what is the litler you are talking about? Is it like cat littler type thing? And what is it called ?Thanks for the info


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## susaneckert

Reece , Where did you fine the door bell that sounds like a really neat Idea


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## Tom King

Petsmart sells it. It's in a yellow bag near where the piddle pads are.

http://www.doglitter.com/GetPage.aspx?D=7475103&T=3547396

We use and recommend for our puppy buyers a piece of naughahyde or better, marine upholstery vinyl cut about 6 inches bigger all around than the footprint of the expen. With that under the expen you can move it anywhere, like even on the carpeted floor in a living room, so the pup can stay close where you are while they are in the expen. I've raised so many like this that I'm subconciously watching them even with company and watching TV so I can train them at the right time. Timing of cues for training is not only important--timing when they are ready for it is also important.


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## susaneckert

Thanks for the Info Tom I think I will try that Ill have my Xhusband get it for me at his cost since he does Upholstery LOL.


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## susaneckert

Thanks Paige was it hard to train your dog to use it


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## susaneckert

aw yea sound like he wants the treat LOL That would be good for on the road traveling at hotels ect.As a reminder: LIke a dumpy I need to go potty " LOL


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## Olliesmom

*Litter & Outside*

My new baby Ollie turns 12 weeks today..we have had him 3 weeks. I bought the litter box and the Purina litter but he just tried to eat it so I now just use the litter box with puppy pads in it - so much easier and so much cleaner...I have 2 crates for him - one for long periods of time during the day and a small one for travel or sleeping in my room at night. In the large one I have his litter box - his bed and a couple of plaster containers so that he only has room to sleep in his bed or use the litter and a very small area next to his bed so he can get cool on the metal if he gets warm - has made it thru the nites most nights since we got him and uses the litter box if he can't - besides that he goes outside all other times...i take him past the grass area straight to the rock/dirt area - if he is on the grass he doesn't poop and I can't tell if he is just standing or peeing....he goes pee everytime even if it is so small you want to laugh..and he does his "duty" 3 times in morn before I leave for work and at lunch and a few more times in eve - seems like all the time -but I am a "crazed" mom who takes him out at least every 45 minutes unless he is ocupied with me or someone in the house - not allowed to go outside of the family room - removed my area rugs temporarily and put down an old comforter which he thinks is his play area over my large rug...you are right - you have to do it over and over - and a crate is A MUST!!! It also helps you get some well needed sleep!


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## Sherman

Hi, my Havanese puppy Sherman lives in an ex-pen in the kitchen. For the past couple of days he's done all his pooping and peeing outside. Hooray! I don't put puppy pads in the pen because he uses them to play and tears them up. At night I put a washable fabric pad in there and he peed on it sometime in the night. But during the day he doesn't do anything in the pen except sleep, eat and play. I take him out every hour for about 10-15 minutes. 
This is my first puppy and I don't know when it's time to try him outside the pen. I'm afraid he'll pee on the carpet, etc. He's going to puppy classes at Petsmart once a week so maybe I'll leave him in the pen for a few more weeks. He's 4 months old and I've had him for only 3 weeks. I think it's outstanding that he's doing almost all his business outside. Can someone help me decide when to give him a little more freedom? I have a gate I can put across the kitchen door to limit him to a non-carpeted area. This way he could get to me and jump up and nip me. We haven't covered those areas in the class. Any ideas? Thanks so much.


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## Olliesmom

Hi - I am making some great headway with Ollie and his training. He is 13 weeks now and like you I have him confined to the family room kitchen hardwood floor area with the gates that actually have a walk thru gate...I started the bell thing 2 weeks ago - everytime we went out I would ring the bell and thought for the longest time I was just wasting my time - then a few days ago he rang it!! and is doing it more and more!! he also now will go to his potty area by himself on the side of the house when he is playing in the backyard. This all just happened within last week and I am seeing positive things with the training. I will say tho that as soon as he escapes to the carpet area he thinks it is grass or something and feels free to go - I have been told to take him in each room very gradually and play with him so that he sees the room as part of his den like the kitchen and family room - but this is going to take alot of time!!


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## susaneckert

I finally got Yoda potty trained he now gos where he should go.It was so easy I figure out I had to many potty pads out so I removed all of them and left only 1 on the floor in the bathroom he only uses it at night when we are sleeping so I think it will all work out good


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## Sherman

Thanks for the advice, OlliesMom. Last week I decided to put Sherman in the kitchen with a babygate across the opening to the living room. He's only had 2 accidents in 4-5 days, so I guess it's ok. If I'm very good about taking him out every hour, he manages to do everything outside. At night I put him back in his pen to sleep in his bed and during the night he uses the fabric puppy pad.
Now I'm only concerned about the time he's gobbling up. I guess I'll just have to play it by ear. A 4 1/2 month old puppy should be able to hold it for more than one hour. Right?
Also, when he's a grown-up dog will he stop wanting to chase my cats? I'm counting on it, otherwise he's going to live in the kitchen for his whole life.
Thanks again! It's so great to be able to talk to other puppy owners.
Carol


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## susaneckert

our 6 months old puppy likes our cat but our cat is not sure of the puppy the cat took a swing at our puppy Yoda and now Yoda is affraid of the cat its kinda comical to watch them.Yoda does try but I think it went to the cats head now the cat thinks he is the boss of the dog so at night Yoda sleep on my extra bed pillow above my head and the cat sleep right between my husband and I I noticed they are getting closer to each other when they are sleeping Like "You dont see me " Hee hee it just takes time is all.


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## Melissa Miller

Carol, 
I think he should be able to hold it for more than 1 hour. 
When Stogie was a puppy, he went a lot more frequently than he does now. However, if he was in a crate or xpen he would hold it. 
Now he is 1 year and can hold it a long time, however he is at the marking age, so its a new round of training. 

Im trying to give him treats when he goes outside. Sometimes he knows I have treats and he sits there and waits for them instead of peeing. 

I dont have a cat, Im not sure what Goldie would do with one! She chases any bird or rabbit that acts like they belong in our yard. 
Hopefully both of your dogs will become friendly with the cats. 

And Carol, he may be trying to get the cat to play with him when he chases it. My guys chase each other when they want to play.


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## Sherman

Thanks for replying, Susan and Melissa! I'm glad to know things might change as Sherman gets older. He pulls at the leash when he sees the cats outdoors and the only time he actually got loose he chased my older cat and made her very fearful of him. I keep them separate now. Maybe when he's older and more sedate. Right now he's the most hyper puppy in his puppy class. He spends the whole time on his hind legs pawing the air to get at the other dogs. He's a riot. Thanks again.
Carol


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## Karen Fein

It was wonderful reading all these potty/housetraining notes. We adopted Barney, a rescue who just turned 5 months old. He was in several foster homes and each seemed to have their own methods, making for one confused pup. We've had him a bit over 2 weeks now. The first week I was exhausted. Taking him out every 45 minutes or so. He would dutifully pee outside, then come inside and do it again for good measure!! I think I was praising him too much. I came up with the idea of keeping track of his daily potty breaks--successful, accidents, and outside but we couldn't tell if he went or not. Each day is getting better, each day fewer times out. He sleeps through the night without a break. We're thankful for that. He has some kitchen freedom right after a success, then he goes into a pen. I have a question about what constitutes enough exercise. He has wild, running/chasing play time with our ten year old Fox Terrier and two walks a day, plus play sessions with the two of us. He seems to have boundless energy and I feel guilty about putting him in his crate for naps. Next question is the quantity of food for a five month old. We give him l/4 cup kibble plus two teaspoons of canned twice a day. Is this enough...too much?


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## susaneckert

YOur welcome Sherman just hang in there.It will get better the first 2 weeks with our little puppy was a night mare but he has figured every thing out now .It can be frustrating I know.Our little guy Yoda has adjusted pretty well I think with new surrounding smells and rules.and the number one thing still a PUPPY its all good.


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## Mimtex

*Help please*

Good morning. I'm a new member to your forum and have enjoyed reading
various posts last evening.

We just welcomed a Havanese puppy into our family a week ago. She is
just the cutest little puppy -- a black and white party. Her name is Lucy.
She weighs in at a hefty 4 lbs. and is 14 weeks old.

Yesterday was the most frustrating day. We are up at 6:30 and outside
after our "good morning and a kiss." Breakfast at 7 o'clock and then out
again. I have been taking her out every 15 to 30 minutes. Yesterday morning
on our first outside she peed and pooped. That was it for the pooping outside. I can't count the times I took her out and she never pooped. I
finallly HAD to run an errand at 4 o'clock -- and of course she pooped and
peed while I was gone. I left her in the utilty room (gated off) with her
bed and a pee pad. She peed on the pad, but missed with the poop. I
fully expected this would happen, but I didn't put her in her crate because
she had been in their for a nap shortly before. Dinner was at 5 o'clock.
I took her outside every 30 minutes from 5:30 until 9:30 and she never
pooped! I took her to the same area of the back yard -- on a retractable
leash. As you can imagine her crate was a mess this morning.

Lucy was also switched over from a halter to a collar yesterday -- and she
didn't like it much at all. Could that change contribute to these events. We
also had a session with a trainer on Sit, Potting etc.

I have been slowly switching her over to a new food (Wellness) from her
old (Pedigree).

I would also like to give her a bath -- but am wondering if that's just too
much for this little girl at this time.

Thanks.........Margie

I am SO frustrated and SO tired lol. Any suggestions.


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## susaneckert

First off welcome to the form.Just keep taking her outside to go poop and you might fine it helpful when she does poop in the wrong area of the house ,crate ect. take some of the poop and put it out side where you want her to go. That is what I had to do with Yoda.He is 7 months old male.I was very frustrated when Yoda kept peeping my my living room floor and pooping. I took a little trip to visit my mom and Yoda would go out side at her house where her dogs would go so what I did was brought home some of her dirt in a baggie home with me and put it where I wanted Yoda to go and it worked he now does go out side where I want him to once he learned I didnt have to leave the poop out on the dirt all the time And I was kinda of worried when I put sod out for his potty area that he wouldnt go there any more so I took some of the left over dirt and sprinkel it over the new sod that had the urine oder in it and that works so it might help your little girl.When Yoda came to live with us the breeder should of gotten in trouble for putting him in a cat crate it was way to small for yoda to be traveling.And it was not air line approved either.So now he will go in a crate a 200 series but the door must be left open .Yoda was eating Bill Jaxs when I got him now he eats Science diet .But I have notice that now he itches alot so I am having to change it again.Just stay on her about the bathroom ordeal she will get the idea you have to remember you have not had her very long and she will learn and yes there is a light at the end of the tunnel.And Yes give her a bath and dont forgot to put large cotton balls in her ears for water wont get in her ears.I bath Yoda once a week and he gets a blow dryer on him too. Once he is dry and all brushed out then I brush his teeth he dont like it but that is ok he will learn that too and then I clear his ears out with ear wipes then I use a electric nail grinder on his toe nails that way I never have to cut them I hate cutting toe nails so I grind them if I keep them grinded and short all the time I never let them get to the point of having to cutt them LOL he dont mind the grinder at all now.Yoda has black nails and some white and with my eyes I cant see the line on his nails so It have this way that I do it.So keep on outside dutys and giving baths she will be fine and the sooner you start her the sooner she will get use to the bath just be carful not to get water in her ears.Hope this gave you some idea keep coming back they have alot go really good inforamtion here at this site Susan


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## Mimtex

*Lucy*

 Susan

Thank you SO much for your reply. Great ideas you have given me.
I wish I had saved her mess from this morning. LOL We have been out
numerous times this a.m. since breakfast -- many pees but no poops.
Lucy is resting in her little bed (of her own accord) in the utility room
so I popped upstairs very quickly. I was so excited to get your reply
to my post.

Your Yoda is precious. I'm not good with the computer, so I'm unable to
post Lucy's pic at the moment but will get help and hope to do it soon.
She is a cutie pie!

Thanks again, Susan..........Margie


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## susaneckert

Margie,
You are so welcome. I know with Yoda putting some of his poop outside did help alot.IM glad I was able to give you some ideas..I am new with this breed.So its been a really fun learning all about them. If you want you can send me a private email and I can give you a free program for pictures and it is so easy to use that a monkey can do it.I love it its great for emailing pictures to friends and family.And all your pictures stay in one folder so you know exc. where they are at.And when you upload to this site it makes really easy too. These people here are really nice and have soo much information on this breed .Alot of them are "show" people or groomers and breeders so they are for sure the ones to ask.If you dont get a reply quick just hang in there some one will answer your questions .There is way time differences just keep that in mind Im from calif .Do hang in there it will work all out for yea Susan


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## chrisdisser

*House training*

I just finished a book _How to House Train a dog in 7 days._that insists that you can train any dog in 7 days and gives a schedule. It says that the key is to withhold food and water except for scheduled times so that your dog will become regular.

Once upon a time I trained a male Hav by giving him treats whenever he pooped or peed outside - he was 9 weeks old and got it - but the treats gave him tummy trouble. The experts say not to give treats - but it sure worked with that dog!
Chris Disser


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## Mimtex

Hi Chris

Well -- I NEED that book! We're still working on it. One step forward -- two
back type of thing. Lucy eats at regular times (2x a day) but I leave
her water down until 7 o'clock. I've never thought about scheduling water. She turns in at 9:30. Think we have the "pee thing" down -- it's just the other. 

Thanks for the tip! I appreciate it.

Margie


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## susaneckert

And dont forget treats can even be a piece of there regualr dog food .


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## Sherman

I'm at my wit's end. I took my Havanese puppy Sherman outside for the 5th time today at 11:45 a.m. and he peed (or made it look like it). Then I let him out of his ex-pen for awhile. When my back was turned for a second, he left a puddle in the kitchen and moments later I interrupted him pooping merrily on a new doormat. This time I completely lost it--crying inconsolably for about 10 minutes. This is just too hard. I've been taking him for "walks" every hour for 2 months. I've lost about 8 lbs. without dieting. I've driven my cats nuts with all the litterbox and food bowl moves to get them away from the dog. Plus they're nervous wrecks because he chases them if he gets a chance. I waited until I was retired so I could devote all my time to the puppy, but he isn't making any progress. He's just as prone to potty mistakes at 5 months as he was at 3 months. He goes to puppy classes once a week that are designed for me so I can make him sit and stay. But those are useless skills if he's going to poop and pee indoors.
I'm ready to give up and put an ad in the paper but I can't give him to someone else in good conscience. I don't want to ruin their life!
Does anybody have any advice? What if I abandoned the ex-pen and put him in a crate instead? I have one that I use to transport him in the car. He has food, water and toys and his bed in the ex-pen, but it just isn't working. Last night I caught him red-handed peeing on the carpet and took him outside where he finished the act. But it has no follow-through. He doesn't seem to learn. He's 5 months old! Help please.
Thanks,
Carol.


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## susaneckert

Have you tryed peep pads or lilter box maybe that might help.


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## Olliesmom

well i am certainly not a pro at the potty thing but here are a few suggestions. Personally I think an expen is too big for a puppy. he should be in a crate that he can only move around in - lie down etc....and unless you are with him watching him he should be in there all the time or on a short leash with you. Ollie is turning 4 months and we just went 3 weeks with no accidents but he is under constant supervision. as someone told me at the dog park last night - he is not housebroken yest - I am!!! think about it...I know his routine and know what to do - if i left it to him he would go whenever and whereever he wants...food 2x a day no water after 6:30 pm out every 30-45 min and I take 2 pieces of cat food as his treat when he goes - he loves it!!! as far as the cats...put the food where he can't get to it- cats will get there food wherever you put it and he may be eating and drinking more than you realize! hope this helps!


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## RedHeadedGator

Carol - Please don't give up! The best advice I could give regarding a Hav is that they are very sensitive emotionally. I know with one of our Hav's, if she feels that I am upset while I am trying to get her to go potty outside, she will just not go. I always take them out while being very upbeat and happy and I always use "buzz" words with them while I am training. Everytime they pee, I say good tinkle and their name. Everytime they poop, I say good girl and their name. I says these things over and over while they are doing the appropriate thing. Now I can basically get them to go on command. Hav's are such smart dogs but I have found that they can be very sensitive and can feel our moods with them, etc. I hope this helps and good luck!


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## Doggie Nut

*Where to start?*



reece said:


> I bought the door bell on amazon.com for about 20 dollars.


How do i begin to get him to know when he rings the bell that means go outside to potty? Thanks!:


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## Doggie Nut

*Ring the Bell*

Thanks for the info....i will look for the bell tomorrow and give it a whirl! Valentino is very smart(as most Havs are I suppose) and should "catch on" quickly(I hope!). He does pee & poop outside and keeps his crate clean all night BUT still won't let me know he needs to go and WILL go in the house. He is 11 mos. I know it is mostly my fault....when I get better so will he! Will keep you posted! vicki


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## Sherman

Thanks to all of you who sent me messages. Since that terrible day I wrote about Sherman has had only one "accident" on the rug. I poured Nature's Miracle over it and cover it with a toy when he's loose. I got advice from an expert to stop taking him out every hour and make him hold it for 3-4 hours. I'm compromising at 2 hours and that seems to work. After I'm sure he pees outside I let him loose for 10-15 minutes and play with him. So far, so good. I'm shocked that an 11-month-old Hav would pee in the house! Sherman will get neutered next month when he's 6 months old. I was seriously thinking about letting him be adopted elsewhere, but I'm hoping the worst is behind us. I'm soldiering on! Thanks for all the advice.
Carol


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## susaneckert

Sherman that is what the site is for to get helpful Ideas some time when you are in the middle of the problem or what ever you dont see the whole picture or you run out of ideas Just keep trying it will work out one day Potty training I feel is one of the hardest things to break when you get a older puppy because you really dont know what the other people did.Hope it all works out for you. Susan


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## Melissa Miller

Yes Carol dont give up! 
Thats the number one reason that Havs get shipped around and eventually end up in Rescue. If you stay consistent, and always watch him, you will get there. Maybe neutering him will help also. 

Its like having a two year old child have accidents and sending him to an orphanage. Sometimes a kid will still wet the bed when they are older, but as they mature its less and less. 

As Sherman grows, his bladder will get bigger and we will have more control. Sometimes you take a puppy out and they just get distracted and forget to go. I stay out there and constantly say Go Potty, until they do, then we have a huge party. Then I let them play in the yard. That way 
they no to do thier business first. Goldie knows the word potty so if I say it, she will usually go. 

And once in a while accidents can still happen. Like if they get sick, or are stressed. And I agree 100% the dogs can feel your stress, so relax, he will get there! Its worth all the effort.


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## Sherman

*A little progress*

Just wanted to let you kind people know that Sherman hasn't had an "accident" for 6 days. Almost a week! I think the secret is extending the time between "walks" to more than 2 hours. Then I only let him loose in the house for 30 minutes. Plus I make sure he's occupied with a rawhide chewy or something like that while he's out of his pen. I read the book How to House Train your Puppy in 7 Days and am following it's guidelines except for restricting Sherman's food and water. Since he is a small breed dog, he can't eat enough dry food in 15 minutes to keep him growing right. I leave water and food down all the time so he can eat whenever he wants to. If I'm able to take him outside every 2-3 hours, what's the harm?
Thanks for all the advice!
Carol


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## susaneckert

Hey sherman I feed Yoda 3 times a day then at 6:30 pm he gets no more water that seem to help yoda alot.Feeding he gets about a cup a food a day up to a cup in a half.That way I know when he will have to go poo .But we get up real early around here so his breakfast is at 5 am then luch round 11 then his dinner is around 5 he is on a schule completly .I dont beleave in leaving food out all the time but that is just me.If you have them on a schule just like a kid it so much nicer LOL glad you got some advise from people here it does help.Good luck


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## Lynn

Kara, 
This is a good one too, for potty training. I think Tom King was some good advice on potty training. He is a breeder of Havanese dogs, and has alot of good advice.


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## Karen Fein

Boy, I can relate on this housebreaking thing! Barney is 9 months old, we got him at 4 months, and it has been a REAL struggle. Just this past week, I'd bragged that he'd gone over a month without an accident in the house. I gave him a bit more freedom and bam, he peed on our brand new area rug in the living room. Right before my eyes. No signal, nothing!! So it's back to kitchen confinement when we're home and the crate when we're not. I'll bring him into the living room when I hold him, but no running free. One important thing though. Our vet said never to restrict water intake, particularly with small dogs who need all the water they want. So, we're taking a few steps back but confident he'll eventually get it.


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## Julie

I just read this thread tonight for the first time...I'd like to know how you are doing Sherman?
I used a crate.An empty crate...no mat or anything that could "hide"a mistake.Havs do not like to lay or be in their own mess,so crate training is key.
Hope it has gotten better for you now.Please update on your progress.


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## Al Henderson

Today was a day of great worry. My wife had to be at work at 4:00 AM and Myself who usually work from 4 till midnight, Have annual training all this week and federal firearms qualifications from 7:30 AM till 4:00 PM.

I ended up feeding Derian early around 5:00 this morning and letting him do his business, and then placed him in his crate at 6:30 AM right before I left for work. I told my 17 year old daughter who gets out of high school at 1:30 PM, To come right home and she would more than likely have to clean his crate out, Because I just knew he would have to do his business way before 1:30 PM as he has never been crated this long before and up to this point has not soiled the house from day one. Only time I usually crate him him is about 30 minutes before my daughter comes home from school when I have to leave for work and with the wife at work also. At nights he sleeps with the wife and I in the bed.I am so proud of him. He just turned 19 weeks old. I was worried about him all day. Sure glad the wife works afternoons the rest of the week.


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## Cosmosmom

Hi 
I am far from the potty training expert . I have good days and bad days and the weather can certainly make a difference . I am amazed at all the Hav's out there running in the snow .
I will make a couple of points of behaviour I have noticed and things I have read . 
They do not like to poop in the crate . Cosmo has never had a serious accident in the crate . One time he peed - it was my fault not his . I did not get home in time .. 
Dogs usually have to do there business as soon as they get up . Now this does not mean they do both numbers at the same time . 
Cosmo usually does the big number after breakfast . Dogs who eat kibble seem to poop more .. 
All I can say after reading everyone comments it is a challenge . I have never had girls just boys .
My first dog Asta learned a lot from his friend Zorro a lab Rottie mix - he is the one wh taught him to lift his leg and poop in the ivy .. Tulip taught him to go stand at the door and bark .. 
Cosmo did not have a buddy until now - he has had parasites as well and that does make it hard trust me .. 
I agree with Melissa - take up the carpets . Yes I have Cosmo confined but he walks in and out of the house and he heads right for the carpet .. 
It is a work in progress .. It does teach us patience and we know where to go to for advice and help .. 
It is so helpful for me to know I have company . Thanks everyone ..


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## luchetel

Tom-
OK. So Parker, 7 1/2 months old now,(neutered about 3 weeks ago)had a good run of 4 days-no peeing or pooping in the house. Lots of praise as soon as he did it when brought outside to do his business. Confined to the kichen area- no wandering around the house. The kids and I were on vacation during the 4 days. I thought we were home free! Everyone doing the same thing with him, including hubby. 
Today, we all went back to work/school- except hubby who is retired. Parker views hubby as the main alpha of the house and absolutely adores hubby. Hubby took Parker out- He did his business. Came back in- hubby turned around and Parker peed on the kitchen floor. Later, he pooped on the floor after having been out shortly before. But he was not caught in the act!
We are so frustrated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And we have beautiful oriental rugs, antique furniture etc. too. But Parker is not allowed in those areas because he still is not housebroken, reliably.
Please explain the difference between being potty trained and housebroken- I donot understand since we have always taken Parker outside to do his business. He is told to do his business- he knows the language- 
The vet said that somewhere about this age, male dogs seem to "get stupid" and forget the routine. Frankly, Parker never had "it" to begin with. 
The only thing I know he gets is who is the alpha in the house, and he always obeys the "back" command when the doorbell rings. (He stays in the designated area until the guest is greeted and steps into neutral territory. Everything else he responds at whim. 
As a funny aside, I had an umbrella cockatoo that I hand raised- i also taught him to go potty on command while he was perched in my hand,or only in his cage. He did not have his wings clipped and flew around the house at will. He NEVER pooped in unacceptable places!
What am I doing wrong with this puppy?
Lynn U


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## Al Henderson

If you can make a note of the times they usually do their business during the day, Makes it much easier to train them. Mine has always been ready for #1 and #2 around 7:00 am every morning, #1 again about 10:00 am, another #1 and #2 around 1:00-2:00 PM, #1 and most times #2 also at 4:00-4:30 PM, again at 7:00 PM and last #1 and #2 for night at 11:00-11:30 PM.

He is pretty much every day like clockwork.

Only time it is a chore is when it is pouring cats and dogs outside. My wife thinks I am nuttier than a fruit cake, as several times I would end up taking him outside in a downpour with a slicker suit on,then holding her big umbrella over the top of him so he didn't get wet. Hey don't laugh, it works. Just don't try this while it is lightning.


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## Laurief

Al, I am not laughing cause i do the same thing. Those big golf umbrelllas are perfect for that. - So how did he make out in the crate for that long?????

Lynn, I wonder if he is not getting enought time outside to go (with the hubby) I have to wander around the yard a bit. Logan can pee immed. upon going out, but needs to walk around a bit before he decides to poop. Like Al said, I also keep track of their normal schedule of when they do what. And he usually sticks to the schedule. We have been pretty accident free for the last week and he is only 17 weeks old. We all work or go to school but he is left at the most 4 1/2 hours in his crate.


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## Al Henderson

Laurief said:


> Al, I am not laughing cause i do the same thing. Those big golf umbrelllas are perfect for that. - So how did he make out in the crate for that long?????
> 
> Lynn, I wonder if he is not getting enought time outside to go (with the hubby) I have to wander around the yard a bit. Logan can pee immed. upon going out, but needs to walk around a bit before he decides to poop. Like Al said, I also keep track of their normal schedule of when they do what. And he usually sticks to the schedule. We have been pretty accident free for the last week and he is only 17 weeks old. We all work or go to school but he is left at the most 4 1/2 hours in his crate.


Derian made out perfect in the crate. That was the only time he had to be crated that long in which he missed his regular bathroom time, so I was surprised he held it for that long.

I agree with you Laurie on the time.......Sometimes Derian will get stubborn at that last time outside around 11:00 or 11:30 PM before I put him to bed where he will go pee, But refuses to do #2. He don't do this to often. He will at night sometimes do #1 and then take off running straight to the door. If I take him back to the yard, He acts like I am punishing him for something where he will sit down on the ground and just stare at me, so I give up and just bring him inside, But he still hasn't had an accident in the house since i brought him home at 8 weeks old. He just turned 20 weeks old yesterday.

During the day it often takes him awhile to do his business, Because he gets to busy wanting to play.

What has worked in our favor, I work 4:00 pm to midnight 5 days a week and the wife normally works afternoons most of the time and we don't have to crate Derian, But maybe 1 1/2 hours-2 hours tops till my 17 yo and 14 yo get home from school which has kept him on a regular schedule since we brought him home.


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## juliav

Al - little Darien is such a cutie pie, you should post some updated pics.


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## Karen Fein

Barney is on a schedule, too. Every hour on the hour. Or every ten minutes, or maybe 5! What's that? A squirrel? I gotta go pee, mom. What's worse, we taught him to ring a big jingle bell hanging on the door. He rings that thing when he has to do his business, when he wants a cookie, when he wants to go out to play. You get the picture. Yet, he has never done #2 in the house and only once did #1 in his crate when we were gone longer than anticipated. And he was a rescue from a puppy mill, so he was a bit backward in his social graces. Writing this, I realize that I love him so much, I don't mind cleaning up after him. I'll just keep working on his training it and get a more comfortable chair for my desk in the kitchen, since that's where I spend most of my days now! Eventually, he'll get it cause he's a smart little guy.


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