# Back Yard Potty Setup- Pea Gravel? Astroturf?



## Petaluna

We have a completely dug-up, small (about 18 x 40) back yard and less than 5 weeks to at least get the potty area in. 

My husband excavated most of the old sod last year - by hand with a shovel - god knows why he didn't rent a sod cutter, apparently he likes a challenge. Last week he rototilled everything, including what was left of the weedy sod, so we pretty much have a blank slate. 

Somehow we are hoping to combine in this tiny space a veggie garden, newly sodded area for play and tight RLH, and a potty area. Since the potty zone has to be fairly small if we want to keep a clean area for playing and food-growing, I am thinking of using either pea gravel or astroturf-type material in a contained section just off the driveway, since I don't think grass will survive the daily peeing in that small of a space (no more than about 5 x 5 feet). 

Does anyone have experience with either of these materials for that purpose? My breeder uses pea gravel as of recent months/years and says she wishes she would have done it sooner. I think with proper drainage and a bacteria-eating enzyme occasionally, that could be a good solution. I have heard some dogs will eat the pea gravel, though, and that's why I was considering some type of astroturf - apparently it's used in dog runs at boarding kennels, etc., and cleans up well. We will have to shovel snow off of it in the winter, too.

Any ideas or alternate suggestions would be much appreciated!


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## Laurasch

We used pea gravel and while Pepper enjoyed chasing and grabbing rocks as a puppy, he never had any mouth interest in the layer of them laid down in his special place. The first thing he did when we let him out there was go pee in the rocks. Good boy. After a couple months he became more interested in the dirt area and outdoor rugs (spread to keep him relatively clean). So, if we had to do it over, I would make the pee/poo area separate from the rest so he would always go only there. We do shovel it in winter (ended up throwing some rocks in the lawn ): ) and hand clean out the leaf debris.


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## Petaluna

Hi Laura, thanks for the reply! I think, too, that it's best to have her potty area confined to just one spot because the yard is so small, and I don't want to be worrying about "land mines" everywhere. Hopefully she won't object to the feeling of gravel under her feet. I'm not sure if she will be used to anything but paper when I bring her home, but I imagine she'll get the hang of it. 

I called a landscape company about doing the re-sodding part and described what I wanted to do with the doggy potty area. They apparently have installed the astroturf stuff for other people with dogs, so I'm waiting to hear back about their suggestions with that as an alternate. Probably both materials have benefits and drawbacks. 

I was originally thinking of setting up a covered litterbox system on the deck for bad weather so I could just let her out quickly without access to the yard and driveway, but I don't see any easy way to clean that. We will just have to both tough it out in a back yard potty, rain or shine. I have to accompany her until we can spend the money on new fencing and reconfigure the deck and steps so she can't wander to areas where I can't see her from the window.


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## MopTop Havanese

We had peagravel in our dog run area. And at first it was a great idea, but then I learned that scooping not-so-firm poops out of peagravel is a real pain! Plus I ended up scooping up alot of the gravel while I was scooping up the poop. I also found it hard to keep clean and "sanitary". While I have multiple dogs, and you will have just one, this might not be a problem for you. We have recently switched over to astroturf. I really wanted the "artifical grass" but that just wasn't in our budget right now. I really, really really like the astroturf. (Hubby got cheap rolls of it at HomeDepot). It's so much easier to scoop poop off of. I hose it down a couple times a week, and then use a watering can to put deodorizer on it-
Hope this helps~


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## Scooter's Family

We don't have a problem with land mines since we pick up after them. They have such small poos that it's easy, we buy the small poo bags and keep the big trash can by the fence. Much easier than trying to go out and clean up once a week or so. It's not much of a bother at all.

That's nice that you're redoing your backyard though! Very exciting!


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## Petaluna

Thanks, Katie. Yeah, if there are squishy poops, that could be an issue.....What problems exactly were you having in keeping the pea gravel clean vs. the astroturf? (if you don't mind sharing the gory details.) Like just getting squishy poop out from between the rocks, or was the urine and drainage and issue, as well?

The other problem with using the lawn for this is my husband tends to put off the mowing and it gets quite long sometimes, so I think we are going to have to have a designated surface that is not natural, growing sod. 

What I'm also wondering about is how to hose it down and clean it on those months of the year where it's freezing temps at night and we can't leave the hose hooked up. Really from about November through most of March, cleaning just about any surface would be difficult to impossible. We had freezing rain and snow last night. 

My last concern is if they are pottying in the same small area all the time and walking through where they pooped a couple hours earlier, they must be getting some traces of it on their feet, even if I've picked it up. I'm just a little germophobic that way, considering they are all over the furniture. Still, I think containing the potty area is a better idea than free-peeing/pooping anywhere in the yard, so I know where it's clean to run around and not near my vegetables. She'd better not pee on my salad greens...!


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## Laurasch

Diane, about the bad weather options, we made something very simple - 
We put an x-pen on the deck, right beside the door, braced to the housewall and deck bench. Made it a rectangle and bought a clear plex 4x6' sheet from Home Depot. Put that on top, arched, held with bungies. Put a pee box and pee pad under that. If it's nasty (snow or rain), I crack the door, open the x-pen and he pops out there to pee (or in the snow at the outer edge). If we have a big outdoor party and I want the whole deck, I can dismantle it in a couple minutes. I liked the clear plex because it is really not noticeable. Guests don't look out the dining room windows and see an ugly 'thing' on the deck.

About cleaning the pea gravel - wellll, it basically rains all the time in Seattle  Plus Pepper has full blown coprofagia so i jump right out there to pick up!

Here are pics - the xpen, attached steps down to the ground, the mat and gravel area


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## Petaluna

Hey Laura, how does that work with driving rain and drifting snow, since ex-pens are open? Is it a plastic ex-pen or a wire one? that could be a good solution! 

I'm still trying to figure out how to train her to primarily use the potty area down in the yard, but somehow know that a covered deck potty with a pee pad is still an option in bad weather, as is a litter box with a pad inside the house in a pinch - i.e. middle of the night, or if we are gone too long, etc. 

I gotta think that is a lot for her to understand, but maybe a pee pad is the common thread. I may even take the pad out to the gravel or turf area in the yard for awhile. If I accompany her to as many of those potty breaks as I can and give her the command and praise, maybe it'll all click eventually. I just don't want to confuse her.


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## mishelly1976

Diane-
Have you seen these?
http://porchpotty.com/porch-potty-systems.html
There's one that even has it's own sprinkler attachement and you set it to go on each night and rinse itself off. Expensive, but nifty.


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## Laurasch

If the driving and drifting comes from the open side directions, I imagine it could get in quite easily. Ours is fairly protected by the house.

I think you're right about the pee pad and accompanying her being the common threads. I did that for Pepper and he seemed clear on the concept despite multiple 'locations' (although never in the house, I think it's always clearer/easier to understand if it's never okay 'in the house') .


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## norac

Has anyone used the artificial grass? We are getting our backyard redone this spring and have planned for a doggie toilet area. We had planned on putting pea gravel there and we have a temporary spot but it's tough to shovel the snow (we get a fair amount) and the gravel gets mixed in which is a pain since the city picks up dog waste as part of its organic waste collection.

I didn't know there was artificial grass but this might be a terrific option but would like to know of others' experiences with it.

Thanks!


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## iluvhavs

We use the pea gravel. They can go in the grass if they want, but tend to prefer the gravel. It's not hard to clean, as the poops are usually small and firm. I keep a gardening shovel in the area to scoop and clean up after. Every now and then I wash it down with the garden hose. At least I know where to watch me step.


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## Petaluna

Laura, thanks so much for the pics, that really clarifies things! I think that is just what we need in winter and rain. I noticed you have your gravel area fenced off with the ex-pen as well, is there a special entrance to it that lets her into it but nowhere else, or is the yard fenced and she just knows to go there? 

I am waiting to hear back from a landscape company about a better estimate on sodding our back yard. They could do the potty area with the pea gravel as well, but given the loose estimate I got today, I don't think we can afford it on top of the grading and sod laying, I will have to make the potty place myself, having the gravel (or artificial turf) delivered. 

Rory - in your pea gravel area, did you build that any special way? I have heard that landscape fabric underneath the rock can impede wastes breaking down into the soil underneath and causing it to smell and not drain properly. On the other hand, if I don't use landscape fabric, I'm sure I will have a weed problem or grass growing into it in no time. I'm leaning toward gravel vs turf mainly because it's just for one dog, and I think the different surface of the gravel under her feet will help her recognize where her area is. I am thinking a fabric underlay that has some porosity for drainage a good 10 inches down or more with sand at the bottom, then larger rocks, then pea gravel, with black plastic border to stop the lawn coming in, or paver bricks sunk in like I did with our front garden border. Oh boy, less than 5 weeks to accomplish this and I've got a busy work schedule, better get cracking....


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## Scooter's Family

What about a Ugodog inside in a bathroom or laundry room? That might be a better option since you're dealing with lots of weather.


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## Petaluna

Hi Ann, I would totally do that if we had a place for it. Very small bungalow, no laundry room, bathroom too small and right next to the door where my husband's clients go upstairs for bodywork, and they sometimes use that bath. I thought about the basement, and it would work for a cat, but slippery steps to it and really not practical for a small dog, I don't think, particularly because I don't want her rooting around in the basement. The only place in a real pinch is right by my desk in the back room, which is a small build-out from a bedroom, and this set up is where I pretty much live and work most of the time, including sleeping these days with my insomnia and my husband's snoring getting worse. Definitely not a place for "smells" on a regular basis. There is about a 3 x 4 foot patch of fake tile in front of the door to the deck, and in the future if I know I'm going to be gone a long time, I'll probably pen her in this back office area with a litter box set up and hope for the best. I've got a lot of electrical cords and computer cables back here, though, and I am still trying to figure out whether I have to somehow secure all of these, or if she'll leave them alone. For quite awhile she'll be confined to the safety of an ex-pen when I can't watch her. But that's off topic......


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## Laurasch

Petaluna said:


> Laura, thanks so much for the pics, that really clarifies things! I think that is just what we need in winter and rain. I noticed you have your gravel area fenced off with the ex-pen as well, is there a special entrance to it that lets her into it but nowhere else, or is the yard fenced and she just knows to go there? ....


If you look closely at the first pic - the house door is open, from inside the house (barefoot and dry  ) I can swing open the free end of the x-pen. It's the only place he can go, so he's never loose. Then I tuck it in behind the house door trim once he's in there so he's secured. From the covered top deck, he can take the steps down (second pic), and move into the ground area (third pic). He's completely confined and has his choice of areas - when it's rainy or snowy he stays under cover! The lower area is enclosed by two xpens, the side of the deck (latticed below) and the house. Where the two x's overlap, they're held in place with a couple of bricks on the ground. I can swing one up and over the bricks to open it, to get in and clean up after him. Since he can only push and not lift, the gates are essentially 'locked'.

Btw - He doesn't like to be outside without me, so it's only to do his business. If he wanted to hang out there, the arrangement wouldn't work as it is not safe from predators. We have coyotes and occasionally even bears and cougars...just one more thing for you to obsess over as you plan


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## Petaluna

Hi Laura, that looks like a really good setup, thanks. I could definitely do the one on the deck right outside the door, but to go down the yard, given where the deck steps are located right now (off the driveway), we won't be able to partition off the gravel potty area the same way, though I'm going to try to build it so that we can have the steps relocated later and it will still be in close reach. Geez, these are the doggy expenses you don't think of ahead of time!

I just got a quote from a landscape company, and to grade and sod about 2/3 - 3/4 of our tiny back yard plus create about a 5 x 5 potty area with pea gravel could run $2000. Holy cow. I may do the potty area myself. Or start with sod and make the potty in that spot later, but I did kind of want to get her used to the pea gravel feel under her feet (and still haven't ruled out artificial turf). 

Our last year's plans to turn the entire back yard into a high yield veggie garden has changed with new canine addition, but we are now caught unprepared having excavated everything last year and only a month to at least get in the puppy area. I am pretty sure we're not ambitious enough to complete a re-sodding project ourselves - properly.


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## iluvhavs

We used a black mesh type landscape mat under the gravel. I have it slightly sloping, so the water, with the rain and hose runs down hill.

We put in sod a few years ago. It looked beautiful, but it all died within 2 years! It needs watering constantly and takes a whole season to take. Plus, when it rained hard, it would slip around, Horrible job! We ended up reseeding it ourselves the following year. If I had to do it over again, I'd put down a seed blanket, or hydro-seed.


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## Petaluna

Rory, how long did it take for the seed to grow? Was the sod put in professionally? Our problem is that we need a lawn back there sooner than later, though seeding sure would be cheaper. It's not a great time of year for that because of the weeds germinating and coming up right now. I kinda wanted a yard for the puppy to play in....but maybe we could make do in the small patch in the front, though she'd have to be on-leash for that. 

I am not sure how to properly grade and level everything, either. We'd have be out there moving a sprinkler around half the day, that's for sure, probably in either scenario, and sooner than later it will get really muddy out there without a layer of sod. I wonder if the type of grass and skill of installation has anything to do with the success of it "taking." My husband added clover seed to the front lawn for the nitrogen, and it's not a traditional looking turf, and we get quack grass in it too, and it's cute when the clover blooms, but all in all it looks greener and nicer than everybody else's. Only organic fertilizer, no chemicals. When it's dryer we usually let it brown up (to a point), but it always comes back.


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## Jane

We had a pea gravel pit for Lincoln and he was very good about using it. Scout did not like it one bit. So, it worked for one dog and not the other. 

Laura, I like your rainy day setup!


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