# Fred is on borrowed time, need potty training help quickly!



## Cindy Lee

Hello,,

Fred is close to 10 months old and we have had absolutely “0” success house training him. We have been using the crate. It seems that for him to let us know when he “has to go” is simply NOT an action that he can comprehend, or, if it is and he is telling us we are missing it. We have purchased numerous “training publications” and spoken to several trainers, but nothing seems to work! 
Looking back the only thing that we have been doing is taking him out when we think he has to go. It just isn’t working. 
Is there such a thing as trainers that will take a dog, house train / break them and then return the trained dog to you? I’m thinking that is about the only thing that is going to keep Fred out of the shelter in the very near future.
Thanks for reading my post,
Cindy R


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## Hsusa

Have you tried bells?


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## Hsusa

Please don't give up on him. I know it is hard but he looks like a love.


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## krandall

Cindy Lee said:


> Hello,,
> 
> Fred is close to 10 months old and we have had absolutely "0" success house training him. We have been using the crate. It seems that for him to let us know when he "has to go" is simply NOT an action that he can comprehend, or, if it is and he is telling us we are missing it. We have purchased numerous "training publications" and spoken to several trainers, but nothing seems to work!
> Looking back the only thing that we have been doing is taking him out when we think he has to go. It just isn't working.
> Is there such a thing as trainers that will take a dog, house train / break them and then return the trained dog to you? I'm thinking that is about the only thing that is going to keep Fred out of the shelter in the very near future.
> Thanks for reading my post,
> Cindy R


Using a trainer really wouldn't work, because the dog might learn the behavior at the trainer's house, but nut have it carry over to your house. Potty training is a matter of creating good habits. Learning to SIGNAL you typically comes MUCH later. By 6 months or so, Kodi was not having accidents in the house, but, like you, I felt like it was more because _I_ was "potty trained" to his schedule. It wasn't a big deal, especially since we also maintained his litter box, which gave him an appropriate indoor option, but it would have been NICE if he would have been able to TELL me when he needed to go out.

Suddenly, one day PAST his 2nd birthday, I heard him barking at the door. I had no idea what he was barking about but went and let him out anyway. He ran and pooped! Of course I told him how wonderful he was. From then on, without exception, he has told us when he needs to go out.

Your job for now is to MAKE SURE you set him up for success, so he doesn't have mistakes. Eventually, he'll find a way to let you know when it's time. Bells MIGHT work, but not necessarily, especially if he's not reliable indoors. There are also dog who just don't like bells. Kodi is one of those. Absolutely REFUSES to touch them for any reason.


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## Cindy Lee

*Fred's potty training*

Hello,
Thanks for the info. I honestly can't see him around here for a few more weeks much less another year and a quarter or so pooping and peeing in the house.
If we stay to a strict cage training, he's in there 90% of the time screaming like a banshee. EVERY time we let him out as soon as he feels like it he goes and it happens too fast to stop him. Cindy actually snatched him up and set him outside when he was going. poop....... that resulted in a carpet to clean as well as a Fred to clean! We did the puppy pad thing, and it turns out that he likes to SHAKE the pad,,,,,,,,,,,,, use your imagination on how that turned out.

He is a very loving dog, smart to when it comes to sit, fetch and so on.

Thanks for the info...
Bob R


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## 31818

Cindy Lee said:


> Looking back the only thing that we have been doing is taking him out when we think he has to go.


Amigo Freddie looks like a really nice guy. Is there a problem with taking him out when you think he has to go? Mi Popi takes me out every 3 to 4 hours (in the beginning it was every 30 minutes), whether I tell him I have to go or not. Mi last potty call is about 8pm and then I'm good for the night. Next morning at about 6 - 6:30, Popi takes me out again and then 3 to 4 hour intervals after that. In the beginning I got a treat for going outside in the right place. But I don't need a treat now for doing what has become natural to mi. Besides we always do a couple of minutes of obedience training while outside, whether I go or not, and I get a treat for following Popi's commands. :biggrin1:

Please don't take amigo Freddie to the shelter.  Contact Havanese Rescue or a member of this Forum may take him. Freddie is just two nice a guy two throw him two the dogs in a shelter. :frusty:

hang in there Freddie, su amigo, Ricky Ricardo


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## Wags Mom

I wish I lived close enough, as I would be happy to see if I could housetrain him for you. Of course, as Karen pointed out, it wouldn't automatically transfer to your house.

My house is not carpeted, so housetraining mistakes are not nearly as difficult to clean up. I have always given Wags the option of an indoor potty and he is quite reliable, but seems to prefer going outside whenever possible. I did not like any of the disposable pee pads. They were too flimsy for me. But, both Wags and I like the large washable ones found on Amazon: Sofnit 300 Washable Underpad, White by Medline, Link:http://amzn.com/B000FED594. They come four to a pack and wash great. I think giving your dog two options, both outside and on pads, might increase his success rate.

I also agree with Ricky that there are plenty of Hav owners that would be willing to take on Fred, even without being housebroken. Even the best shelter is a scary place for a dog.

I am hopeful things will work out for you and Fred .


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## lfung5

Oh, please don't take Fred to a shelter! Please contact havanese Rescue. They will find a fabulous foster and forever home for him. I cringe at the word shelter. 

If you are at your wits end, it's time to call Havanese rescue. They will find him a suitable home.


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## Cindy Lee

Hello Ricky Ricardo,
No,, no problem with taking him out to go. Its just that whenever we do he chooses not to go. Yet- back in the house for anywhere from 5 min to 20 min and boom, poop on the floor!
I know I said shelter,, but I do intend to go with a note on this forum or some type of Havanese adoption place.
Thanks for the info.
Bob


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## Cindy Lee

We are giving it another 2 weeks or so. I'm really hopping that he starts getting it.... Besides being really attached to the little bugger, and him being a really good pooch, I hate to throw in the towel after such an investment of both time and money!
I misspoke, if we decide that he has to go, it will be to a rescue NOT a shelter. 
Thanks,,
Bob


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## 31818

Cindy Lee said:


> We are giving it another 2 weeks or so...........if we decide that he has to go, it will be to a rescue NOT a shelter.
> Thanks,,
> Bob


Senor Roberto, it is extremely doubtful that anything significant is going to improve in just two weeks. Potty training is a long process and can take months for some of us high-spirtited male doggies.

Let's start the potential rescue process right now,,,,,,,just in case. Where are you located, the State and general area? Send me or one of the other HF members a private message with your phone number or email address, so we can maintain contact, if you decide mi amigo Freddie is not your forever dog. I can hear the frustration in your postings. I love all peoples and doggies. I want you to be forever happy and I want mi amigo Freddie to be forever happy.

Stay with us here amigo Roberto. We HF amigos can find a solution for you, one way or the other.

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## 31818

Okay, here is some information from Cindy Lee in a previous post:

_Hello everyone. Does anyone know of someone looking for a mail havanese 6 month old puppy? Listens ok, but we simply can not get him house trained. We are in Maryland, 21237._

Any HF amigos in that general area that can make contact with Freddie and family, stat? This frustration has been building for the last 4 months or more. Freddie and his family need a lifeline immediately!!! :frusty:

HF, let's git ur done!

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## Heather's

I know potty training can be very frustrating but he will catch on. Scout only took a couple weeks to train because he was never out of our site. We were not consistent with taking Truffles out every two hours and also she had the wee pad option which I believe confused her. It took one year for her to be completely reliable and not to have any accidents. We have hardwood and carpet so Stanley Steamer made frequent visits She now follows Scout outside and sometimes will uses the Rascal inside. I hope you are able to "hang in there" like Ricky said. If your not able to I am sure someone here or Havanese Rescue will love to have him. Fred looks like such a sweet like guy Hoping the best for you and Fred...


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## lfung5

I agree with Ricky. If he's not housebroken yet, two weeks is not going to change anything. He might do really well placed in a home with another dog. 

I offer to foster months ago but my situation has changed and I am not longer taking guest dogs. I have crazy neighbors and I have my hands full just keeping my 3 safe.

I think you are making the right choice by rehoming him. Good luck!!


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## Hsusa

I think Ricky is right. After months of trying, you will probably not see too much progress in the next couple of weeks. I don't think that's anybody's fault. Some dogs are tougher to housebreak than others. And it sounds like Fred is a toughie. But a cute toughie.


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## Molly120213

Bob,
Do you have a contract with your breeder that prohibits you from surrendering Fred to another person or rescue organization? Also, if you reread the thread you posted back in December there were many housetraining tips suggested to you. Did you try following any of the advice given and it still didn't work? If Fred doesn't go potty he needs to go immediately back in the crate until you try again in a little while. If he is having accidents before you can get him outside I would pick him up from the crate and carry him outside so he doesn't have a chance to go in the house. Havanese are smart dogs and can be successfully housetrained if you are consistant and don't give them the freedom to have accidents before they are fully trained. The more accidents he gets to have in the house the more he thinks the house IS his potty area. He is probably confused. I am sure after all this time you are bonded to each other. Doesn't he deserve your patience to get him through this? Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## krandall

Cindy Lee said:


> We are giving it another 2 weeks or so. I'm really hopping that he starts getting it.... Besides being really attached to the little bugger, and him being a really good pooch, I hate to throw in the towel after such an investment of both time and money!
> I misspoke, if we decide that he has to go, it will be to a rescue NOT a shelter.
> Thanks,,
> Bob


Unfortunately, another two weeks is NOT going to do it, after all the times he has gone in the wrong places. That is all habit that needs to be broken and replaced with good habits. He will need to go in the RIGHT place a number of times for EACH time he has gone in the wrong place. Dogs don't just "get it". They need to be taught.

Have you talked to his breeder? First of all, the breeder might have some ideas to help you, based on how she started the pups on potty training. Second, most reputable breeders will take a dog back if the owners can't keep them any more. They will make sure he gets the training he needs, then re-home him with people who are able to follow up on that training.


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## lfung5

I want everyone to know, I don't normally agree with people giving away their pet. This has been going on for months and months. I do think there is a more suitable home for fred. There is no reason the convince Cindy to keep him. This was just not a good match....


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## krandall

lfung5 said:


> I want everyone to know, I don't normally agree with people giving away their pet. This has been going on for months and months. I do think there is a more suitable home for fred. There is no reason the convince Cindy to keep him. This was just not a good match....


I agree.


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## Zoe093014

Fred is so sweet and will probably be a really good dog and probably is except for this one thing. I have an idea that might work based on past experiences with other breeds of dogs I had owned. I don't know if your yard is fenced in but I am assuming you take him to the bathroom on the leash. If you could buy some kind of temporary fence and fence in a not too large portion so that all
you have to do is open the door and call him out with you in a happy voice, it just might work. Take a ball or just have him explore, I can give you some horse manure, , and make it like a fun adventure. They all go when they are free. In fact our problem was to get them back in. We needed treats when they came in. Anyway, it's worth a try. He probably gets really upset in the crate and is in a dilemma because he doesn't want to wet the crate but is upset being in there and also because he is uncomfortable. And sometimes when they are on a leash they either won't go or take forever. Anyway, it's worth a try and it really won't be too hard. When the weather gets better it should be even easier.


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## krandall

Well, an important part of potty training them is teaching them to go when you ask them to. If you're on a road trip, you can't take a half an hour walking your dog all over for them to potty, nor is there often a place you can let them go off-leash (even if you could find a place clean enough.

I have NO problem letting my completely house trained dog out to potty on his own, but during potty TRAINING, he was ALWAYS on-leash, so that he learned that this WASN'T play time… that play time was what you got AFTER you performed.


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## Zoe093014

Karen,
I think Fred needs to relax and have fun and it will happen. They have tried the other methods for 9 months and it isn't working. They are getting exhausted and frustrated and I believe Fred is probably also. They need to take a baby step and get Fred to have a positive association with going out to relieve himself. Sorry, but this is my opinion. I hate to see these people give up.


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## Heather's

I find that my two always go after eating. If Fred went for a long walk after a meal he would go potty on the walk. If he goes on a walk and goes potty make a big deal of it. Mine pretty much only go after eating. Truffles occasionally will use the pee pads between walks if she drinks a lot. Scout only will go on a walk and in the backyard before bedtime. Fred is still just a puppy. I really think the walk is the key to preventing accidents. My friend did board her Lab for a month where he was completely trained. Maybe there is a facility in your area that offers training. I sure wish that it works out for you and Fred. If you were in our area we would try to help. My husband just mentioned that ours go for a 45 min walk twice daily. It took us a long time to train Truffles but she is the best little girl ever and worth every Stanley Steamer visit Hold on... after one year they stop being puppies and grow up as far having accidents.


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## Naturelover

I've been doing some reading lately, a couple of Jean Donaldson books, specifically. One thing I haven't been able to eke out of this conversation is what Fred's guardian's do when they catch Fred going inside. If they are yelling "no", scolding, or otherwise punishing Fred, it might be one of these classic cases where Fred has learned that it isn't safe to potty when mom or dad are around- that he must sneak off quietly to do it himself, somewhere they won't notice (e.g. under the dining room table, where at least a few seconds pass between the deed doing and the folks noticing, thus weakening the association with the punishment). He might end up thinking that is one of the few safe places to go.

I also haven't been able to tell if they have been able to provide food rewards when Fred does it in the right place, or if they ever get the chance to catch Fred doing it right. If the training has consisted more of telling Fred what _not_ to do, he might not feel comfortable going outside if he is attached to his guardians with a 6 foot leash where he can be observed.

I tried to read through the old threads but I am just getting back from being away (and combing another Havanese each day out of Archer as it is hard to have other folks brush him the way he needs it when I am gone... anyway) so if I'm off base here please let me know, or if I've missed some details in my skimming.


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## whimsy

You mention you tried the piddle pad and he shook it around. Those piddle pads can be put in a holder to solve that problem. The pads I use are the Top Dog brand and the holders also are sold at PetSmart. Whimsy is a piddle pad trained dog and doesn't go outside. She came to us from the breeder trained on those pads and we just kept it up. (She's almost five now and we keep the pad system in the laundry room and she runs in there to go.) There is also a spray you could try on them to attract Fred to it.... Or pick up a piece of poop and put on there to get the idea. Lots of praise if he uses it!
Good luck to you! I hope you can get things turned around!


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## lfung5

I don't understand why people are trying to convince Cindy to keep Fred. She was ready to give up on him at a few months old. Clearly this is not the right fit for this couple. Some small dogs can take over a year to housebreak completely. I'm sure Fred can feel their frustration. Being a foster mom to several
Havanese rescues, I see how well these guys adapt to new homes. They seems to do it very quickly too! I for one would never give up on a dog at this young age. My Fred and bella took over a year to completely housebreak. But clearly if she was frustrated at 4 months and still is, the best thing for Fred is to be rehomed. I don't try to convince people to keep their dogs if it's a stressful unpleasant situation for everyone. These dogs should be complete joy and by cindys previous post and titles, you can see how stressed she has been.


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## Molly120213

I agree with you, Linda. I think this situation with Fred has been going on for too long. Many people on this forum have given great advice for both potty training and possibly rehoming Fred and it doesn't seem to do any good. I hope the owners will come to their senses and either return Fred to his breeder or surrender him to Havanese Rescue. I don't think that owning a dog is for them.


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## Heather's

I think Cindy wants to keep Fred and is trying to get any advice that might be helpful.


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## lfung5

Have you read her previous threads? She was starting to give up at 4 months old. This is just a bad situation for both parties.


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## Heather's

I do remember reading her previous posts. She was very frustrated not knowing how to housebreak Fred. I just think she needs to know everyone goes through this difficult 
period. They need to walk him after meals and it would solve the problem of Fred going in the house. Hope they do whatever is best for Fred.


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## 31818

Heather Glen said:


> Hope they do whatever is best for Fred.


I totally agree with yous guys. But I think the subject of this thread says it all: "Fred is on borrowed time," It is time for mi amigo Freddie to find a forever home and Freddie's family to get their lives back to something they can deal with. Nobody is at fault, it just didn't work out.

I tink we have given Cindy Lee 4 viable options:
1. Return Fred to his breeder
2. Surrender Fred to Havanese Rescue
3. Find Fred a forever family with someone here on Havanese Forum
4. Surrender Fred to a foster home until an appropriate permanent family can be found.

I would like to have Fred Mertz (get it? Ricky Ricardo and Fred Mertz) as a foster brother. But that would be hard with mi living en California and en Mexico right now and Freddie in the frozen East. There has to be an HF member somewhere near Maryland who can help out right away. Freddie deserves a second chance. Let's not lose contact with Cindy Lee, so we can help everyone out.

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## lfung5

Ricky,
Someone here already reached out to Cindy. She wants to take Fred. I don't think Cindy responded. She also offered to take him four months ago when Cindy posted, Fred must go!


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## 31818

lfung5 said:


> Ricky,
> Someone here already reached out to Cindy. She wants to take Fred. I don't think Cindy responded. She also offered to take him four months ago when Cindy posted, Fred must go!


:frusty: I worry for Fred.

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> :frusty: I worry for Fred.
> 
> besos, Ricky Ricardo


I do too, Ricky. It's a sad situation. There is no shame in admitting that you are in over your head. But it IS a shame if the pup continues to develop worse and more ingrained bad habits because the owners can't bring themselves to give him to someone who can give him the consistent supervision and training he needs.


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## Molly120213

This is so frustrating! We went through all of this four months ago with Cindy and she refused the offers of help and stopped communicating to us about Fred. Now she reaches out for help again and is not responding to offers of help this time either. I don't know why she even bothers to post about Fred other than to get us all riled up and worried again.


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## Hsusa

I'm sure they just don't know what to do. As hard as it is to deal with poop, it's harder to think of giving up an animal you love.


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## lfung5

I wish there was a choice to "LIKE" comments

It is true. We want what is best for Fred. I don't understand why she posts and then goes MIA either. We are not here to judge, just help get him into a better home.


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## krandall

Hsusa said:


> I'm sure they just don't know what to do. As hard as it is to deal with poop, it's harder to think of giving up an animal you love.


I just don't understand WHY he is allowed to eliminate all over the place in the house. If he were confined when he didn't go, UNTIL he went, they would at least have a clean house if not a (yet) totally reliable dog. I couldn't stand pee and poop all over my house either, but you can bet your bottom dollar that I would have come up with an answer to controlling it WAY before the 10 month mark.

Put them in diapers if you can't control it any other way. I know a couple of puppy mill Yorkies (a breed that ,at best, is notoriously hard to reliably potty train) that have lived in diapers their entire lives. But DON'T let them keep pooping all over the house!


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## Heather's

I think they just need a plan to follow. I don't think crating him and then letting him out in the backyard will work. It is like guessing when he will go. It seems he is not getting enough exercise. If Fred ate and went on a 30-60 min walk he would eliminate. I think their problem would be solved quickly.


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## SJ1998

Some options, same as others suggested:

- look at his diet/health.  Is the food wrong? How many times does he poo in a day? 
- a dog walker? maybe someone could take him for more walks - could even be a neighborhood kid if you cant afford a professional
- try the trainer, it may not work but maybe it will help? But the money spent on a trainer might work for dog walker
- try the crate games program. Will teach Fred to think and help him be calm in the crate
- call a rescue organization or someone to foster the dog, see if they can work with him. Many people take in dogs - it doesnt mean you have to give him up forever. He could go to a foster home for awhile with someone who is used to working with challenging dogs and you can take him back. If someone has another dog in the house with good habits that can help a lot.

What does your breeder say? Did they have any ideas?


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## lfung5

The more you put into housebreaking, the faster it pays off. That means, confinement, praise, walks, taking him out every 30 min, If he doesn't go, he is confined until you take him out 15 min later. Teaching the dog the command pee and poo is also important. That way they know why they are outside. If you don't teach a dog to tell you he has to go outside, he won't tell you. You must teach them where you want them to go. They don't automatically know not to go in the house. You need to be dedicated to housebreaking them.... Scudder housebroke very very fast because he learned from the other 2. I didn't get Bella until she was 7 month, so it took her several months. Fred was my hard one but he was pretty much housebroken before a year old but would have an accident here and there until over a year. Now fred is my best boy. He doesn't hesitate to go in the pouring rain like my other 2


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## 31818

This same scenario happened 4 months ago.......dire problem, HF amigos try to help, and then OP disappears. What is going on here? :suspicious: We Havanese are an optimistic group, but something just doesn't smell right! :suspicious: If there is a "Fred" I hope he gets rescued soon. 

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## krandall

Could she be a troll?


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## Heather's

Oh no….You may be right Ricky


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## lfung5

I think you guys are on to something. Her thread titles are always draw dropping. She also never replied to PM's of people offering to help.....hmmm

I don't think she is involved other than her problems with Fred..

She went MIA again....


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## MarinaGirl

Some of the posts are from Cindy R and some are from Bob R. I don't think they're trolls - that's harsh. I'm actually surprised that they posted again after how they were characterized previously.


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## krandall

MarinaGirl said:


> Some of the posts are from Cindy R and some are from Bob R. I don't think they're trolls - that's harsh. I'm actually surprised that they posted again after how they were characterized previously.


I wasn't saying they ARE trolls, Jeanne, I was just wondering because of the pattern of coming and saying (several times) that they were about to get rid of Fred then disappearing when help was offered.

A number of us have tried to give them the help they needed AND to reassure them that it's OK to re-home Fred if it's a bad fit for them. I'm sure it's hard to give up a pet, but I know that YOU know how much work goes into raising a puppy to be the "perfect" member of your family. New puppy owners need to be willing to put in that work.


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## Tom King

The number one reason that dogs are given up to rescues is because of house training problems. This is why I've said again, and again that this is one of the most important jobs, in a long list of jobs, that a responsible breeder addresses.

Puppy mills are of course the worst. Puppies that grow up just letting it fly any kind of way, and even getting used to walking in it, may never be able to be house trained.

I was so proud of our puppies this morning. Nike's puppies were three weeks old yesterday. Blanchi's are a few days older. Since they are in the same room we started both litters with litter boxes this past weekend at the same time. Normally we start at three and a half weeks. This morning, as I carried the Moms their breakfast, Nike's puppies were just waking up, and all three toddled into the litter box to pee. I had spent time with them the first couple of days making sure they were put into the box when they first woke up.

Even with the training we put on our puppies, it can all be thrown out the window in a couple of days by a new owner. One other thing I've said here more than a few times is that someone who expects a small dog puppy to learn to only go outside has to have no other life until the job is done. Those who expect them to only go outside are the ones who will have the most accidents to deal with.


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## Hsusa

Hi Tom! I like hearing about how well you start your puppies off. I think anyone would be lucky to have a puppy from you. I'm surprised to hear you say that so many people have problems when they train their puppies to only go outside. We've had three puppies over the years and I've had great luck with housebreaking them, without an indoor potty option. All three have been small dogs...a poodle, bichon, and now Sheba. I kept my puppies in a crate whenever I didn't have them in my lap or right under my feet. I took them outside a lot, at least once an hour at the beginning, then less as time went on. I never scolded if they had an accident but if I saw them squat, I whisked them away to the outside. That worked for our first two dogs. With Sheba, I added potty bells and by five months, she was really reliable about telling me she had to go by ringing the bells. It seems like such a simple system to me.


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## Heather's

We trained Scout to only go outside. He was taken outside every two hours for a couple of months and then extended the time. It was a very difficult time because I work 12 hr nights and had to get up every two hrs My husband took over in the evening. We only put him in the ex-pen at night for a few months. He now will wake me up with a soft whimper if he needs to go. Truffles took one year to housebreak…our fault We didn't stay to a strict every two hour schedule. We used pee pads and also took her outside. She still prefers using the Rascal. So happy that stage is behind us!


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## Tom King

I didn't say it couldn't be done. I should have said more clearly that it was more difficult for most, and especially hard for some owners who just can't get it done. The ones who seem to have the most trouble are those who expect the puppy to use reasoning. It's not about reasoning. It's about establishing a habit.


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## Heather's

It was extremely difficult with my schedule….I just couldn't go through it a second time. In the end the indoor option works well for Truffles.


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## 31818

krandall said:


> I wasn't saying they ARE trolls, Jeanne, I was just wondering because of the pattern of coming and saying (several times) that they were about to get rid of Fred then disappearing when help was offered.
> 
> A number of us have tried to give them the help they needed AND to reassure them that it's OK to re-home Fred if it's a bad fit for them. I'm sure it's hard to give up a pet, but I know that YOU know how much work goes into raising a puppy to be the "perfect" member of your family. New puppy owners need to be willing to put in that work.


Me gusta (I like it) Tia Karen.

Although I am still what many consider an "older" puppy, I have come to the conclusion that peoples are more difficult to train than us Havanese. Mi forever Momi and Popi are so easy to train, I just look up at them with those almond shaped, "poor me", eyes and I get whatever I want. Momi says, "Ricky you are one spoiled travesura (prankster)!" Uhhhhhhh, like duh Momi, me gusta!, what do you expect? Popi is the alpha in mi forever family, Momi is........well I just love her to death! and Popi two!

In my opinion, and remember I'm only a little doggie that like to RLH, training problems are the problems of peoples, not us Havanese doggies. Show me a problem Havanese and I will show you a confused Havanese!

I'm rooting for you amigo Freddie, you got a tough one there!

su amigo, Ricky Ricardo


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## lfung5

I agree with you Ricky. Hav's need to be taught what you expect of them. If they make a mistake, get a newspaper, roll it up and hit yourself over the head that being said, you should never hit them if they make a potty mistake.
Scuddet and Fred have both learned how to manipulate me. Scudder uses the same tactic you do. Fred will grumble and paw at what he wants, until I give in. Most times it's harmless so I give in


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## 31818

lfung5 said:


> Hav's need to be taught what you expect of them. If they make a mistake, get a newspaper, roll it up and hit yourself over the head


ound: ME GUSTA! (I like)

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## DaisyMommy

OH MY GOODNESS! I just saw this thread and my heart is breaking.  Does anyone know how this was resolved? I live in Baltimore county and would be more than willing to take that handsome guy and potty train him right along with Daisy. She's already made amazing strides and we live in a 3 story condo! If they show up again on another thread, please let me know. I'm probably 20 minutes away from them at the most.


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## azcolaw

krandall said:


> Could she be a troll?


I don't think she's a troll. She sent me a message back in November after reading about all my housebreaking problems with Ginny and asking for advice. 
Just for what it's worth, wanted to mention that. 
I hope everything works out for all concerned.


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## krandall

azcolaw said:


> I don't think she's a troll. She sent me a message back in November after reading about all my housebreaking problems with Ginny and asking for advice.
> Just for what it's worth, wanted to mention that.
> I hope everything works out for all concerned.


That's good to know. Still frustrating, but consider the time and effort people here have put into trying to help her, it's good to know theses are real people with a real dog involved. ...of course, that still makes it really sad, for all involved. &#128546;


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## Fithavamama

Cindy, where are you located?


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## 31818

Fithavamama said:


> Cindy, where are you located?





Ricky Ricardo said:


> Okay, here is some information from Cindy Lee in a previous post:
> 
> _*Hello everyone. Does anyone know of someone looking for a mail havanese 6 month old puppy? Listens ok, but we simply can not get him house trained. We are in Maryland, 21237.*_


besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## Carma

I take my puppy out every 30 to 40 minutes. We have very few accidents. I don't wait for a sign she needs to go out I just take her. Give it a try.


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## andra

Well, I live in Northern Virginia so I am willing to help in any way. And another poster in this thread lives in Baltimore, again, another resource nearby to help.


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## Zoe093014

Taking the pup out every 30 min. or so is definitely one way but my puppy is now toilet trained (5 months) without my ever having to do that. During the night she lets me know when she has to go, and during the day she goes to the bathroom herself. No accidents either. My point is there are many methods to accomplish this so if one way does not work for you and your dog, try another way. Also please have the vet rule out any physical conditions.


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## CherryO

Even if she was a troll, the advice is not wasted. I have started housebreaking my pup and appreciate any piece of advice possible!, Im sure others do too!


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## prettysmartchic

What happened to Fred? People will adopt him from you. I have family in Maryland and would be happy to collect him on my next visit back east. I've had my pup for 2 years and we figured out potty training with a very strict food, water and exercise program. Happy to give more advice or give Fred a home.


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## Hsusa

I hope Fred is okay. We really haven't heard anything from his people for a long while. A lot of people offered to help.


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## MWilson

Has anyone heard about Fred? This is so sad. I hope he is doing well. My little guy could use a friend, and I'm not opposed to driving if it would be helpful. I'll gladly take little Fred in. Potty training is no easy task. It takes time and patience, but it is not impossible.


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## mollys dad

*Molly has same problem*

Molly does the same thing . She is very much on schedule first thing in the morning, after that who knows. She will go out and stare at you or just lie down. Back in the house and 1 to 5 minutes later POOP. She has mastered the dog door but won't use it to do her duty. Some one out there must have a solution to this. My wife is totally out of patience and the dog living here much long is in question.


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## Zoe093014

How old is Molly? This breed which has many endearing traits is known for taking a while to totally potty train. I am using the indoor potty option so that in the winter, I won't have to go outside in all kinds of weather and in the middle of the night. Mine just naturally will pee and poop outside on walks for exercise and she uses the indoor potty when inside for my sanity as an every 30 min. routine would drive me nuts. She goes by herself inside and I praise her whenever I catch her doing so, sometimes giving her food rewards as well.
Just an fyi. Don't give up. It will happen.


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## lfung5

Have you taught her the pee pee and poo poo command. It really works! My guys will poop on command if they have to go. If she is having accidents, you need to limit her space. Keep taking her out every hour on the hour at the very least. Good luck!


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## krandall

mollys dad said:


> Molly does the same thing . She is very much on schedule first thing in the morning, after that who knows. She will go out and stare at you or just lie down. Back in the house and 1 to 5 minutes later POOP. She has mastered the dog door but won't use it to do her duty. Some one out there must have a solution to this. My wife is totally out of patience and the dog living here much long is in question.


Puppies do NOT potty train themselves. Just giving them a way in and out by themselves isn't enough. They still need to be TAUGHT what is the right place and the wrong place to go. That means close, EYES ON supervision, and confinement when they can't be closely supervised. I'm sorry, but there are no short cuts. Puppies, just like small children, need training. If a family is not willing to put in the time and effort necessary, it might be better for them AND the pup to find it a new home before frustration levels make things worse.


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## whimsy

krandall said:


> Puppies do NOT potty train themselves. Just giving them a way in and out by themselves. They still need ro be TAUGHT what is the right place and the wrong place to go. That means close, EYES ON supervision, and confinement when they apcan't be closely supervised. I'm sorry, but there are no short cuts. Puppies, just like small children, need training. If a family is not willing to put in the time and effort necessary, it might be better for them AND the pup to find it a new home before frustration levels make things worse.


I agree 100% with Karen


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## Molly120213

Looking back at previous posts I think that Molly's dad and mom were not fully prepared for all that goes in to raising a puppy. Potty training, nipping, and grooming have all been hard on them for a while now. I hope that they can really think about what is best for them and for Molly in the long run. Maybe an older dog would be a better fit for them. They should be in contact with their breeder if they have a contract with one, or Havanese Rescue if they don't. I wish them all the best.


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## Savannah Kalista

When I took our girl out I kept telling her, "go pee, go pee" until she went and then lots of praise. Also said, "go poop, big job" while guiding her back and forth like most dogs. I took her out often and tried not to bring her in until she went. She now goes on command for pee and will for poop when she has to. She has a pretty regular schedule so maybe record times your guy goes and try to make sure you take him out at those times. Hope he gets it soon.


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