# How long do you leave your doggy alone?



## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

Hi All, I've spent a lot of time on the forum reading posts on separation anxiety (SA) and how long folks leave their adolescent or adult Havanese alone. I know with puppies time left alone is generally short for many reasons, including as part of an SA prevention protocol. This post is geared more towards the long-term rather than the particulars of raising a puppy. I thought I'd post some questions to maybe get feedback from people who never posted about it before (or if you did post previously, it'd be nice to hear from you here and maybe help with the questions below!) it might also be a guide to anyone considering a Havanese is concerned about being able to meet the social needs of their dog.

1. If you only have one Havanese, how long is he/she alone on a daily basis?
2. If you work full time, or even 5-6 hours a day outside the home, what has your experience been with SA or was there any? Importantly, if there wasn't any SA, is it because you followed a protocol with your puppy to prevent it? 
3. Did your dog ever have SA and did it go away? If so, what did you do to make that happen, if anything?
4. Related to #3: Did you ever get a second Havanese or other pet to deal with the first dog's SA? If so, how did it work out?

If anyone can think of any other questions to add that would be wonderful!

Thanks so much for any feedback given


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

Truthfully, my separation anxiety causes me much anguish. I find key lime pie and banana pudding both offer some solace.
I work out of home, and my puppies notice and make exasperated noises when I stare at a screen. Just Kosmo meant I put him in crate for 9:30 to 12:30 nap (they both still do long morning naps) to run out and buy supplies. They both come along and ride in the cart at Home Depot and Lowes so that they can be admired while I am destructed by paint color choices and trying to scroll through puppy pictures and find window measurements. The havanese separation anxiety is real, no joke. They want to be with their people. Lots of things to chew while crated, especially stuffed kongs, would be my best air head suggestion.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

_1. If you only have one Havanese, how long is he/she alone on a daily basis? _During the school year, we leave our house at 6 AM. Our dog "walker" comes at 11 AM to take Shama into the back yard to potty and play. They also play inside. They don't ever actually go for a walk. My DH returns home around 4 PM, and I return home around 5 PM. During the summer, we are both home with Shama most of the time as we are high school teachers. Sometimes in the summer, we put Shama in her 2x6-foot ex pen, because we find that she naps best when she is in her pen. She tends to be a bit restless outside her pen.

_2. If you work full time, or even 5-6 hours a day outside the home, what has your experience been with SA or was there any? Importantly, if there wasn't any SA, is it because you followed a protocol with your puppy to prevent it?_ We had two breeders refuse to sell us puppies because of our work schedule because they said that this breed, the Havanese, really needs its people. We really wanted a Havanese, however, because my DH would get an allergic reaction (hives) when he touched any other breed of dog, including many so-called "hypoallergenic" breeds. Finally, a breeder who was a retired kindergarten teacher was willing to sell us our sweet baby. From the beginning, therefore, we were paranoid about SA. We followed a protocol to prevent it. We make our comings and goings as low-key as possible. Before leaving the house, we ignore her for about 10 minutes then exit without saying goodbye. Upon returning to the house, we ignore her for about 10 minutes before calmly greeting her then taking her outside to potty. The party begins after she potties. She is quiet when we come and go, and she's quiet when our dog walker (who also ignores her for a bit after arriving and before leaving) comes and goes. The only exception is when Shama senses we're going on a big trip because we keep going up and down the steps with loads of stuff. Then she barks, but it's a bit silly, because we always take her with us on big trips! (Whenever we're out of the house, Shama is in her 2x6-foot Pupperton ex pen.)

_3. Did your dog ever have SA and did it go away? If so, what did you do to make that happen, if anything? _ She's never had it.

_4. Related to #3: Did you ever get a second Havanese or other pet to deal with the first dog's SA? If so, how did it work out? _ At first, we considered getting a second dog, but then we read some posts about how nice it really is to just have one dog, and we decided having only Shama is right for us. We do wish she had more friends for play dates, however.


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

ShamaMama said:


> _1. If you only have one Havanese, how long is he/she alone on a daily basis? _During the school year, we leave our house at 6 AM. Our dog "walker" comes at 11 AM to take Shama into the back yard to potty and play. They also play inside. They don't ever actually go for a walk. My DH returns home around 4 PM, and I return home around 5 PM. During the summer, we are both home with Shama most of the time as we are high school teachers. Sometimes in the summer, we put Shama in her 2x6-foot ex pen, because we find that she naps best when she is in her pen. She tends to be a bit restless outside her pen.
> 
> _2. If you work full time, or even 5-6 hours a day outside the home, what has your experience been with SA or was there any? Importantly, if there wasn't any SA, is it because you followed a protocol with your puppy to prevent it?_ We had two breeders refuse to sell us puppies because of our work schedule because they said that this breed, the Havanese, really needs its people. We really wanted a Havanese, however, because my DH would get an allergic reaction (hives) when he touched any other breed of dog, including many so-called "hypoallergenic" breeds. Finally, a breeder who was a retired kindergarten teacher was willing to sell us our sweet baby. From the beginning, therefore, we were paranoid about SA. We followed a protocol to prevent it. We make our comings and goings as low-key as possible. Before leaving the house, we ignore her for about 10 minutes then exit without saying goodbye. Upon returning to the house, we ignore her for about 10 minutes before calmly greeting her then taking her outside to potty. The party begins after she potties. She is quiet when we come and go, and she's quiet when our dog walker (who also ignores her for a bit after arriving and before leaving) comes and goes. The only exception is when Shama senses we're going on a big trip because we keep going up and down the steps with loads of stuff. Then she barks, but it's a bit silly, because we always take her with us on big trips! (Whenever we're out of the house, Shama is in her 2x6-foot Pupperton ex pen.)
> 
> ...


Thanks for your awesome post! I'll be working from home when I get my pup but I'm going to work on preventing SA right away as I will be working part-time outside the home when puppy is an adolescent/adult and I don't want SA to develop. Did you follow a special protocol when she was a pup to get her more acclimated to you being away?


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

Marni said:


> Truthfully, my separation anxiety causes me much anguish. I find key lime pie and banana pudding both offer some solace.
> I work out of home, and my puppies notice and make exasperated noises when I stare at a screen. Just Kosmo meant I put him in crate for 9:30 to 12:30 nap (they both still do long morning naps) to run out and buy supplies. They both come along and ride in the cart at Home Depot and Lowes so that they can be admired while I am destructed by paint color choices and trying to scroll through puppy pictures and find window measurements. The havanese separation anxiety is real, no joke. They want to be with their people. Lots of things to chew while crated, especially stuffed kongs, would be my best air head suggestion.


I love your post!! :laugh2: I will follow your chew toy suggestion when I get my pup.


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

ShamaMama said:


> _1. If you only have one Havanese, how long is he/she alone on a daily basis? _ (Whenever we're out of the house, Shama is in her 2x6-foot Pupperton ex pen.)


A question about your Pupperton pen: how old was Shama when you got her? Are the spaces between the bars small enough that a 9-wk old puppy won't get her head stuck anywhere? I looked it up and it looks like a beautiful pen!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I work out of my house, but I do have to be out of the house for up to 5 hours from time to time. I also think it is wrong NOT to teach tour dog to be comfortable by themselves. Sooner or later, they all have to deal with it for some reason or another. It can be quite stressful if they have not learned. 

While separation anxiety is a real "thing", and can happen with a dog of any breed, I do NOT believe that Havanese are more prone to it than any other companion breed. REAL spearation anxiety is a serious disorder, that often requires the help of a trained behaviorist, and sometime medication to deal with. What I see and hear about most in Havanese is dogs where the owner has not taught them to be on their own at all, and then are TOTALLY surprised that the dog gets so upset when they do need to leave them. 

I have three Havanese, from two different breeders. NONE of them have a problem staying alone. But I have to say, we have worked on that. And it is VERY hard, when you have multiples, to make sure that they ALL have turns staying home alone, and, likewise, all have turns going out in public with us alone. We used no "special protocol" to avoid SA. We just were cognizant of the need to train independence, just as you need to train your puppy in so many other ways.

We don't ROUTINELY leave our dogs alone for more than 4-5 hours. In fact, even that isn't really "routine", as it happens periodically. When we know ahead of time that we won't be home all day, we arrange for someone to come in and play with them and let them potty, like Shama. However, when my husband had a major heart attack and was hospitalized for 10 days, Kodi (he was an "only dog" at the time) did fine left home alone gated in my office with water, some chews and his litter box for 10 hours a day. Did he enjoy it? I doubt it. But we weren't exactly enjoying ourselves either... we were in crisis mode!  He survived with no ill effects, and while he sure was happy to see me when I got home each day, he didn't seem particularly stressed.


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

krandall said:


> I work out of my house, but I do have to be out of the house for up to 5 hours from time to time. I also think it is wrong NOT to teach tour dog to be comfortable by themselves. Sooner or later, they all have to deal with it for some reason or another. It can be quite stressful if they have not learned.
> 
> While separation anxiety is a real "thing", and can happen with a dog of any breed, I do NOT believe that Havanese are more prone to it than any other companion breed. REAL spearation anxiety is a serious disorder, that often requires the help of a trained behaviorist, and sometime medication


It is "good" to hear that--that you feel Havanese are likely not more prone than any other companion breed. And that the true disorder is not necessarily what is observed when Havanese get upset at their owners leaving (if they haven't been trained to being OK on their own)

Thanks so much for your post--it was really helpful to me!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

What Karen said. (I often feel like I don't even need to reply to these posts. I can just say, "Listen to Karen.")

We didn't follow a special protocol when she was little. We just always made sure to ignore her for a while before leaving (without saying goodbye) and upon returning home. It still KILLS me to not love her up and say goodbye to her when I leave, but I try to stay strong for her sake.

We also taught her to be happy sleeping the dining room (in her ex pen in tucked under the island - see photos in post below) while we sleep in our bedroom down the hall. We camped in the living room with her the first three nights, sneaking away the second and third night and never sleeping out there again.

To answer your other question, we picked up Shama on a Tuesday, and our pen didn't arrive until Friday. When we were "camping," she was just in her crate. Starting that Friday, she was in her crate within her pen.

http://www.havaneseforum.com/8-puppy-area/122313-baby-loves-her-ex-pen.html

We LOVE our Pupperton. We were never worried about her getting her head stuck between the bars. We like how the Pupperton looks, and we like how portable it is when we go to our relatives' homes overnight. It was an investment, but we figured we'd be looking at it for YEARS.


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

ShamaMama said:


> What Karen said. (I often feel like I don't even need to reply to these posts. I can just say, "Listen to Karen.")
> 
> We didn't follow a special protocol when she was little. We just always made sure to ignore her for a while before leaving (without saying goodbye) and upon returning home. It still KILLS me to not love her up and say goodbye to her when I leave, but I try to stay strong for her sake.
> 
> ...


Thanks--your post is really helpful too! I'm thinking about a Pupperton also, I'm just not sure whether the 2x6 or 4x4 is what I would go with. When you were potty training, did you use potty pads or a litter box or anything in the pupperton? Along with her crate?


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

We were very happy with this training tray which we left in the pen whenever we were away from home until we realized she wasn't using it anymore. Shortly thereafter we replaced the training tray with a fluffy bed. After she was spayed, she stopped going into her crate to sleep; she sleeps almost exclusively in (or partway on or next to) the fluffy bed now.

Amazon.com : Richell Paw Trax Mesh Training Tray, Pink : Richell : Pet Supplies

Took me forever to find a photo for you. (Take pictures of everything new for your puppy when it is new! It will be easier to find the photo later if needed!)

11/26/15 when Shama was almost six months old. Pen set up at my inlaws' house.

12/12/15 when Shama was just over six months old. Day pen set up at my inlaws' house. (We bought the ex pen cover for fear that Shama would jump out, but she never has, so now we use the cover as a barrier when need be or, in this case, as a mini pen twistied to her crate.)

1/2/16 when Shama was almost seven months old. First photo of tray in pen tucked under kitchen island.

This link shows her current set-up, with fluffy bed in place of tray.

http://www.havaneseforum.com/8-puppy-area/122313-baby-loves-her-ex-pen.html


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

ShamaMama said:


> We were very happy with this training tray which we left in the pen whenever we were away from home until we realized she wasn't using it anymore. Shortly thereafter we replaced the training tray with a fluffy bed. After she was spayed, she stopped going into her crate to sleep; she sleeps almost exclusively in (or partway on or next to) the fluffy bed now.
> 
> Amazon.com : Richell Paw Trax Mesh Training Tray, Pink : Richell : Pet Supplies
> 
> ...


She's so cute!! I also saw photos your posted of her in another thread--her tucked in her little "alley" (so funny!) The Paw Trax tray is the one I was planning to get--I think I might have read it on one of your earlier posts  I really like your set up. I think I might go with the same thing. I'm afraid if I give the puppy too much space (like in a 4x4 Pupperton) she may not use the potty tray!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

I don't know if Perry has SA or if he's just annoyed when he's left alone . We've mostly gotten past it, which was why I was surprised to come home from grocery shopping on Saturday (he'd been alone for 2 hours) to find him barking madly (of course he stopped when he heard us outside the house).


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

Melissa Brill said:


> I don't know if Perry has SA or if he's just annoyed when he's left alone . We've mostly gotten past it, which was why I was surprised to come home from grocery shopping on Saturday (he'd been alone for 2 hours) to find him barking madly (of course he stopped when he heard us outside the house).



How old is your Perry? is he ever left alone longer than a few hours?


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Our Ricky is 3+ years old. He is extremely sociable with both his human friends and complete strangers. HE LIKES PEOPLE AND WANTS TO BE WITH THEM ALWAYS! He is very active and consequently he needs a long nap a couple of times a day, morning and afternoon. (I am leading up to my point, so stay with me.) Ricky likes to go everywhere with us and does not like to be left alone. However, we leave him alone a couple of times a month for anywhere from 2 hours to all day. In the beginning, when we left him alone he would bark the whole time we were gong - according to the neighbors. This was not good. So, when we need to leave him all day, we take him to doggie day care. What a joyful reunion when we pick him up. When we leave him at home for a few hours we discovered a trick that works. We tell him it is "nite nite" time and he runs into his crate for a nap. We cover the crate, bird cage style, and we quietly walk out of the room. He goes to sleep and seems to be quite content. Neighbors say complete silence. Ricky doesn't know we have been gone.

I don't know if this is doggie SA or not, but it is Ricky wanting to hangout and interact with whoever is available. The only SA I can confirm is what Momi and Popi feel when Ricky is not with them. We really suffer! We will be gone on a cruise later this month and Ricky will stay with our daughters and their dogs. Ricky is head over paws in love with all of them and he will have a great 'vacation'. Momi and Popi? I don't know if they will enjoy themselves that much. We will be calling every day we are gone and watching him with face time. I don't want to think about it.......maybe we should cancel our trip. :|

Ricky's Popi


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Our Ricky is 3+ years old. He is extremely sociable with both his human friends and complete strangers. HE LIKES PEOPLE AND WANTS TO BE WITH THEM ALWAYS! He is very active and consequently he needs a long nap a couple of times a day, morning and afternoon. (I am leading up to my point, so stay with me.) Ricky likes to go everywhere with us and does not like to be left alone. However, we leave him alone a couple of times a month for anywhere from 2 hours to all day. In the beginning, when we left him alone he would bark the whole time we were gong - according to the neighbors. This was not good. So, when we need to leave him all day, we take him to doggie day care. What a joyful reunion when we pick him up. When we leave him at home for a few hours we discovered a trick that works. We tell him it is "nite nite" time and he runs into his crate for a nap. We cover the crate, bird cage style, and we quietly walk out of the room. He goes to sleep and seems to be quite content. Neighbors say complete silence. Ricky doesn't know we have been gone.
> 
> I don't know if this is doggie SA or not, but it is Ricky wanting to hangout and interact with whoever is available. The only SA I can confirm is what Momi and Popi feel when Ricky is not with them. We really suffer! We will be gone on a cruise later this month and Ricky will stay with our daughters and their dogs. Ricky is head over paws in love with all of them and he will have a great 'vacation'. Momi and Popi? I don't know if they will enjoy themselves that much. We will be calling every day we are gone and watching him with face time. I don't want to think about it.......maybe we should cancel our trip.
> 
> ...


 It seems like SA is just as common a problem for the parents as it is for the doggy! I'm in trouble!!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*Perry*



jay_39 said:


> How old is your Perry? is he ever left alone longer than a few hours?


Perry is now 17 months and we've had him since December (he's a rescue). He's not home alone very often - we live in Kampala, Uganda but my husband has to travel back to the US for a few months at a time. So, when he's in Kampala, the only time Perry is alone is a couple of hours on Saturday morning (grocery shopping) and the occasional Friday afternoon if (rarely) we decide to do something. When my husband is in the US, Perry is alone from about 7 to 10/11 when my housekeeper arrives and she lets him out til I get home at 4:30/5. When we're all in the US there is the occasional full day if both of us and my Mom are all out of the house.

I have considered putting him in daycare when we're out all day in the US (not an option here) like that, but our last experience with daycare when we were in the US in May, ended up with kennel cough, and while it wasn't that serious, we have to worry about him getting health cleared to travel (and coughing like they do with kennel cough at the airport could get them refused, especially since he travels in cabin) so I prefer, at this point, to let him home for the day than to risk not being able to travel back with him at the end of the trip.

Perry did have some separation issues when we first got him, he would bark immediately when we'd leave the house and left him alone. Since around March/April that reduced to only if we left him in a 'strange' place (hotel room, my Mom's house) even though he's in his crate. Last weekend was the first time in a long time that I caught him barking when we were gone (heard him as we got out of the car). For him it's definitely not about being in his crate - he hurt his leg about 2 months ago so he's been on crate rest and he's basically fine in his crate as long as we're in the house. My husband is heading back to the US in a month, so we'll see how Perry is with his morning separation again then.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jay_39 said:


> Thanks--your post is really helpful too! I'm thinking about a Pupperton also, I'm just not sure whether the 2x6 or 4x4 is what I would go with. When you were potty training, did you use potty pads or a litter box or anything in the pupperton? Along with her crate?


Be careful with pee pads unless they are enclosed in a grate. Most puppies will play with them (clean or not) most Havanese will chew them (clean or not) and SOME (like Kodi) will ingest any available paper (dirty preferred) 

The other problem is that som dogs confuse pee pads (ESPECIALLY the washable cloth ones) with scatter rugs, which can kead to long-term potty training issues.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> I don't know if Perry has SA or if he's just annoyed when he's left alone . We've mostly gotten past it, which was why I was surprised to come home from grocery shopping on Saturday (he'd been alone for 2 hours) to find him barking madly (of course he stopped when he heard us outside the house).


Real SA often results in the dog hurting themselves and/or being very destructive.

And Perry didn't have the best start, being a rescue. It's not surprising that he has "stuff" to work through.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

jay_39 said:


> It seems like SA is just as common a problem for the parents as it is for the doggy! I'm in trouble!!


:laugh: I do think that is a BIG part of it... just like "picky eaters".


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## Nepa (Nov 8, 2016)

1. If you only have one Havanese, how long is he/she alone on a daily basis?
Leo is alone from 9-4pm, 3-4 times a week.

2. If you work full time, or even 5-6 hours a day outside the home, what has your experience been with SA or was there any? Importantly, if there wasn't any SA, is it because you followed a protocol with your puppy to prevent it? 
Not too much SA during the hours of 9-4pm. Leo usually takes naps in his xpen. I've noticed if we go out to dinner for a couple of hours, he gets much more restless and upset. Not sure if we followed a protocol to avoid SA but my kids tend to tire out Leo and Leo seems to enjoy napping when no one is around.

3. Did your dog ever have SA and did it go away? If so, what did you do to make that happen, if anything?
No real bouts of SA.
4. Related to #3: Did you ever get a second Havanese or other pet to deal with the first dog's SA? If so, how did it work out?
We only have one havanese. We brought Leo home when he was 12 weeks old and now he is 2 wks shy of a year old.


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

Nepa said:


> 1. If you only have one Havanese, how long is he/she alone on a daily basis?
> Leo is alone from 9-4pm, 3-4 times a week.
> 
> 2. If you work full time, or even 5-6 hours a day outside the home, what has your experience been with SA or was there any? Importantly, if there wasn't any SA, is it because you followed a protocol with your puppy to prevent it?
> ...


Thanks! That's very good to hear!!


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

krandall said:


> jay_39 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks--your post is really helpful too! I'm thinking about a Pupperton also, I'm just not sure whether the 2x6 or 4x4 is what I would go with. When you were potty training, did you use potty pads or a litter box or anything in the pupperton? Along with her crate?
> ...


Thanks! From what I've read a lot of havs are shredders. I'm going to go with a tray that has a grate, for sure!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Oh, also wanted to mention that getting another dog to solve an anxiety issue usually ISN'T a good idea. You can end up with both dogs being anxious, or them becoming too dependent on each other. If you want a second (or third) dog FOR YOU, go ahead! Multiples are fun! But do it for you, not the other dog. havanese are VERY happy as "only" dogs with their "peeps".


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## Jojofergy (Jun 27, 2016)

I live alone and work full time so am gone about 9 hrs a day 5 days a week 
sprocket is now 11 months old and doesn't have SA he has never had it I was a little worried before getting him so I did work on making his pen a happy place giving him yummy treats he can only have in his pen and using his pen when I'm there too (I took the first 2 weeks off work when I got him to work with him) when I first got him he was a little whiny but once he got use to the routine he didn't seem to mind it at all 
As soon as it's time to leave I give him his kong and he takes it into his pen and lays down I close the gate and leave he doesn't even care that I'm leaving now lol when I get home his tail is wagging like crazy I ignore him when I get home for a couple min unless he's barking that usually means he has to potty and he doesn't usually want to use the pads unless he has to 
I had another dog, Luna, she was a rescue from the shelter when I first got her she had horrible SA I almost took her back she would potty in the house and destroy anything she could find tearing thru doors and walls hurting herself it was really bad I did decide to get a second dog from the shelter hoping her not being alone would be better for her which actually did help her immensely (I was very lucky it worked out most of the time it doesn't) she ended up becoming my world lol so glad I didn't give her back!
Now I only have sprocket 
Luna has passed and dexter(my second rescue) moved out with my son 
I think not making leaving a big deal helps prevent SA I never say good bye I just leave while sprocket is busy with a treat 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

Jojofergy said:


> I live alone and work full time so am gone about 9 hrs a day 5 days a week
> sprocket is now 11 months old and doesn't have SA he has never had it I was a little worried before getting him so I did work on making his pen a happy place giving him yummy treats he can only have in his pen and using his pen when I'm there too (I took the first 2 weeks off work when I got him to work with him) when I first got him he was a little whiny but once he got use to the routine he didn't seem to mind it at all
> As soon as it's time to leave I give him his kong and he takes it into his pen and lays down I close the gate and leave he doesn't even care that I'm leaving now lol when I get home his tail is wagging like crazy I ignore him when I get home for a couple min unless he's barking that usually means he has to potty and he doesn't usually want to use the pads unless he has to
> I had another dog, Luna, she was a rescue from the shelter when I first got her she had horrible SA I almost took her back she would potty in the house and destroy anything she could find tearing thru doors and walls hurting herself it was really bad I did decide to get a second dog from the shelter hoping her not being alone would be better for her which actually did help her immensely (I was very lucky it worked out most of the time it doesn't) she ended up becoming my world lol so glad I didn't give her back!
> ...


That's so great to hear! Knowing that your system worked for you I'll try to worry less about the whole SA thing and just start things out right by making the pen a happy place and getting the puppy used to me not being there all the time from the get-go. Now just to figure out how to balance the whole socialization before full vaccination thing....


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Just stumbled upon this photo of Shama in a folder on my computer called BEST SHAMA PHOTOS. (Tip: put a copy of any good photo you take into a BEST folder so that it's easier to find later . . .) That was one thing that surprised me about the training tray . . . she would lie on it! I guess between the absorbent pad below and the plastic grate on top, it was dry and seemed like as good a place as any to lie down . . .


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

ShamaMama said:


> Just stumbled upon this photo of Shama in a folder on my computer called BEST SHAMA PHOTOS. (Tip: put a copy of any good photo you take into a BEST folder so that it's easier to find later . . .) That was one thing that surprised me about the training tray . . . she would lie on it! I guess between the absorbent pad below and the plastic grate on top, it was dry and seemed like as good a place as any to lie down . . .


That's so funny! I didn't realize the tray is so big (or is Shama that small in the photo?) She's a beautiful girl. Oh, boy, when I think of all the photos and videos I'll be taking...I'm going to need a few new hard drives!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Shama was only 1.9 pounds when we first took her to the vet at 10 weeks. Now she weighs eight pounds. Yes, take tons of photos and videos because they grow up so fast! I meant to tell you too that Pupperton has excellent customer service. We misplaced/lost the straps needed to easily transport the pen, and they sent us TWO sets of replacements (so now we have a back-up set - we didn't even ask for that) for free. They're nice people, a Minnesota company after all . . . :wink2:


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

ShamaMama said:


> Shama was only 1.9 pounds when we first took her to the vet at 10 weeks. Now she weighs eight pounds. Yes, take tons of photos and videos because they grow up so fast! I meant to tell you too that Pupperton has excellent customer service. We misplaced/lost the straps needed to easily transport the pen, and they sent us TWO sets of replacements (so now we have a back-up set - we didn't even ask for that) for free. They're nice people, a Minnesota company after all . . . :wink2:


1.9 lbs--that sounds so little! I guess they look bigger because of all the fur 

I'm definitely leaning towards a pupperton--I'm just not sure whether I should go for the bigger one or the 2x6. The one you have looks pretty roomy, and I noticed on one of your photos you had one of the panels removed and her crate attached to the outside--how did that set up work for you?


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

The photo to which you are referring showed us using the tri-fold cover we purchased but never ended up using as a cover (because she's never tried to jump out) as the walls of a makeshift pen. We used twisties to secure those walls to her crate only as a a day pen while we were visiting family members for the day (and not spending the night). That little makeshift pen doesn't have a door, so we have to lift her in and out (not a big deal, but still worth mentioning), and it doesn't have room for the training tray (not that we use the training tray now). We're happy with the 2x6 because it tucks in perfectly under our island and can therefore just be in our dining room which is connected to our living room due to our open floor plan. If we have company that doesn't like dogs, Shama can still be with us even while in her pen. The 2x6 is quite roomy for Shama, especially now that the training tray is gone. Randy (my DH) is saying that if he could do it again, he would have the pen custom made to be two inches wider to accommodate the training tray. Randy wants me to mention that Shama is a runt and that a 4x4 might be better for a bigger Havanese. Do you expect to live in your current home for a long time? If so, getting just the right Pupperton (attractive and functional) might be worth it.


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

ShamaMama said:


> The photo to which you are referring showed us using the tri-fold cover we purchased but never ended up using as a cover (because she's never tried to jump out) as the walls of a makeshift pen. We used twisties to secure those walls to her crate only as a a day pen while we were visiting family members for the day (and not spending the night). That little makeshift pen doesn't have a door, so we have to lift her in and out (not a big deal, but still worth mentioning), and it doesn't have room for the training tray (not that we use the training tray now). We're happy with the 2x6 because it tucks in perfectly under our island and can therefore just be in our dining room which is connected to our living room due to our open floor plan. If we have company that doesn't like dogs, Shama can still be with us even while in her pen. The 2x6 is quite roomy for Shama, especially now that the training tray is gone. Randy (my DH) is saying that if he could do it again, he would have the pen custom made to be two inches wider to accommodate the training tray. Randy wants me to mention that Shama is a runt and that a 4x4 might be better for a bigger Havanese. Do you expect to live in your current home for a long time? If so, getting just the right Pupperton (attractive and functional) might be worth it.


I thought the pen in the picture looked a little small compared to the other pictures you had posted of your Pupperton. Thanks for letting me know Shama is on the small side. I think I'll probably go with the 4x4 then because I can always make it smaller with some screen to make potty training go more smoothly (give the puppy less space in the beginning)). I'm not sure how long I'll be living here but wherever I end up next I should have the space for a 4x4 pen.


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## karidyne (Apr 28, 2017)

No problematic separation anxiety that I've observed. I work 8 hours a day and hire a dog walker. Migo mostly naps in his crate. If you are unsure you can buy a camera to watch him while you're gone to see how he's handling being alone.


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## abi38 (Mar 23, 2017)

I work full time, leaving about 8 each day and home about 4:30. There are people at home but they don't do anything with the dogs. I let them out when I get home, but they crated when I am gone. Weekends if we are going places that are not dog friendly they are left home also, I do have 3 children to do things with and unfortunately dogs are not welcome everywhere. Zelda was the only dog for a year and a half before I got Link. She was fine with being the crate while we are gone. When Link joined in he was fine too. The only dog I had SA problem with was a greyhound adopted at age 2.

I don't know why they don't have SA. But I made in a point from the beginning to not be too attached and resist the urge to really baby and cuddle them all the time when they were cute puppies. They had been crated as soon as they can hold it long enough. Before that they were in ex-pen with ugodog. But they are used to me going to work daily since a puppy. It's not a big deal to them. They do very well in crate, no excessive barking/whining. When I let them out they would still be in them calmly until they see me approaching. They do that when we travel also. They'd quietly be in the crates in hotels when we are going somewhere we cant take them. The only problem I noticed is they do not like to be crated if they are not with each other, especially if one of them see me take the other out, they become very whiny. 

The one dog I had SA problem with, it never went away. I managed it as well as I can. She first started chewing furniture when we were gone. I didn't like that so I got a crate. She then chewed up the crate instead and would cut her gum doing so. My final solution was to use 2 baby gates to keep her in a small room that doesn't have anything to chew on with a Pomeranian we had at the time. That dog died before age 3 for a different reason so I didn't deal with SA over a life time.

I think starting out as puppies and establishing the routine is a big factor why they are good. At this point every morning they go in their crates to wait for breakfast before I leave. Sleep until I get home to do things with them (in fact when I do work at home they just sleep the whole day away anyway). While I'd love to spend more time with them and I am sure they'd love to spend more time with me, I think they are content because they are not stressed when humans are gone.


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

karidyne said:


> No problematic separation anxiety that I've observed. I work 8 hours a day and hire a dog walker. Migo mostly naps in his crate. If you are unsure you can buy a camera to watch him while you're gone to see how he's handling being alone.


Yay! That's great to hear. How old is Migo? He looks adorable 

I'm definitely going to try the camera thing--thanks!


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

abi38 said:


> I work full time, leaving about 8 each day and home about 4:30. There are people at home but they don't do anything with the dogs. I let them out when I get home, but they crated when I am gone. Weekends if we are going places that are not dog friendly they are left home also, I do have 3 children to do things with and unfortunately dogs are not welcome everywhere. Zelda was the only dog for a year and a half before I got Link. She was fine with being the crate while we are gone. When Link joined in he was fine too. The only dog I had SA problem with was a greyhound adopted at age 2.
> 
> I don't know why they don't have SA. But I made in a point from the beginning to not be too attached and resist the urge to really baby and cuddle them all the time when they were cute puppies. They had been crated as soon as they can hold it long enough. Before that they were in ex-pen with ugodog. But they are used to me going to work daily since a puppy. It's not a big deal to them. They do very well in crate, no excessive barking/whining. When I let them out they would still be in them calmly until they see me approaching. They do that when we travel also. They'd quietly be in the crates in hotels when we are going somewhere we cant take them. The only problem I noticed is they do not like to be crated if they are not with each other, especially if one of them see me take the other out, they become very whiny.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your detailed reply. It's heartening to have gotten so many responses from people like yourself for whom SA was not an issue, if they made a point of doing the kinds of things you did from the time their dog was a puppy. The last bit you said really makes sense--that they're content because they've learned not to be stress when their people aren't home.


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## Barbara Levy (Apr 22, 2016)

If you haven't already seen it, this is a good article from Whole Dog Journal about preventing separation anxiety. i wish I had seen it before I brought Loki home. I would definitely have done it since i stayed home the first week.

https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/4_7/features/Separation-Anxiety-Behaviors_5374-1.html

We have the Richell Expandable Crate. It is just a bit shorter than the Pupperton. Loki stayed in it with a UGoDog while we worked until he was a year old. Now he stays in the family room/kitchen which are puppy proofed - primarily meaning no electrical cords he could chew, no available paper, and nothing important for him to get into. He has a zillion toys that I put away in the toy box everyday and he takes them all out while we are at work. He still has his crate and UGoDog available (though he only seldom uses it.) The dog walker came 2x a day for 15 minutes each time while he was crated. Now she only comes once a day for 30 minutes. 
He would probably be fine without the walk because he he does play by himself during the day. We have a nanny cam to watch him - he sleeps a lot but I often see him chewing on toys or throwing them around.

Amazon.com : Richell Expandable Pet Crate with Floor Tray, Medium, Dark Brown : Pet Supplies

1. If you only have one Havanese, how long is he/she alone on a daily basis? I_ leave about 8:30 and Marc is usually home between 4:30 or 5:00. _
2. If you work full time, or even 5-6 hours a day outside the home, what has your experience been with SA or was there any? Importantly, if there wasn't any SA, is it because you followed a protocol with your puppy to prevent it? _Loki has learned my routine in the mornings so he knows I leaving for work and doesn't bark. Maybe, its because I save the kibble portion of his breakfast and give it to him in a Mazee or puzzle ball or Kong wobbler as I leave. The walker says he is calm when she gets here and doesn't bark when she leaves, but he gets a kong with a frozen treat then. Ok, he is spoiled. Really the biggest problem is when I take the trash out or go outside for some reason without him - then he barks. It isn't real SA because he just barks but does't get frantic or destroy anything. _

And, he is the definition of a velcro lap dog. When I am home he is wherever I am and if I am sitting he is touching me...beside me, in my lap or on the back of the sofa behind my head.


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## karidyne (Apr 28, 2017)

jay_39 said:


> Yay! That's great to hear. How old is Migo? He looks adorable
> 
> I'm definitely going to try the camera thing--thanks!


Thank you! He is just shy of six months.


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

Barbara Levy said:


> If you haven't already seen it, this is a good article from Whole Dog Journal about preventing separation anxiety. i wish I had seen it before I brought Loki home. I would definitely have done it since i stayed home the first week.
> 
> https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/4_7/features/Separation-Anxiety-Behaviors_5374-1.html
> 
> ...


I have read the article from Whole Dog Journal and I'm planning to do as much of the protocol as I can when I first bring puppy home. I don't want to stress her too much in the first 24 hours or so. The Richell Expandable Crate looks really nice. I've read some reviews of some dogs being able to get the doors open though. I'm guessing that wasn't an issue for you  Thanks so much for your reply--it's very helpful (and encouraging!) Loki sounds so nice (and funny--taking ALL his toys out while you're away). Personally, I'm really hoping I get a Havanese of the the "velcro" type :grin2:


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## Barbara Levy (Apr 22, 2016)

jay_39 said:


> I have read the article from Whole Dog Journal and I'm planning to do as much of the protocol as I can when I first bring puppy home. I don't want to stress her too much in the first 24 hours or so. The Richell Expandable Crate looks really nice. I've read some reviews of some dogs being able to get the doors open though. I'm guessing that wasn't an issue for you  Thanks so much for your reply--it's very helpful (and encouraging!) Loki sounds so nice (and funny--taking ALL his toys out while you're away). Personally, I'm really hoping I get a Havanese of the the "velcro" type :grin2:


He is a funny boy! I got this toy box thinking it would be good for rotating toys - I could put them away from the top (it lifts up) and he could take one out from the bottom. But as you can see he pulls them all out until he finds what he wants. His favorites change but he always loves the purple latex chicken that squeaks.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

He's still rockin' his puppy cut. And I know how soft he is! We need a close-up of the purple latex chicken that squeaks . . .


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## Barbara Levy (Apr 22, 2016)

ShamaMama said:


> He's still rockin' his puppy cut. And I know how soft he is! We need a close-up of the purple latex chicken that squeaks . . .


It is this Multipet toy but in purple. It squawks and he loves it. He has even figured out that he can use his nose to push down and make it squawk without picking it up.

Pet Supplies : Pet Squeak Toys : Multipet's Mini Globken Latex Plush Filled Polka Dot Chicken Dog Toy, 5-1/2-Inch : Amazon.com


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## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

Barbara Levy said:


> He is a funny boy! I got this toy box thinking it would be good for rotating toys - I could put them away from the top (it lifts up) and he could take one out from the bottom. But as you can see he pulls them all out until he finds what he wants. His favorites change but he always loves the purple latex chicken that squeaks.


Argh!! So cute!!


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