# Please help - don't want to give my dog away



## marb42

Hi Everyone. I am new to the forum and new to owning a dog. I apologize for the book I'm about to write, but I'm really hoping someone can help me. This is my first dog. I have severe allergies and was overjoyed to find out that hypo-allergenic dogs like the Havanese existed. My two children and I absolutely adore Marble, who's now 2. However, Marble is the source of daily arguments and serious tension between my husband and I. The dog was supposed to be for my children, but he is more attached to me, probably because I am at home all the time. Here are the two biggest issues:

1. Marble growls when people move around the house (e.g. the door opens, if he hears the bathroom door open after my husband showers, if he hears my son playing with his bike or toys in the garage). It basically happens anytime the dog is upstairs and can't see who is moving about downstairs. He does it to all of us, and he does it excessively. He is not being aggressive, and I really believe it is out of fear and lack of confidence. He's a very anxious and jumpy dog. He follows me from room to room (another thing my husband hates because he feels like we can't have a moment alone. This is made worse because my husband works at home and doesn't get a break from the constant growling). So how do I make Marble more confident and show him that noises and people moving around aren't bad so he'll stop his constant growling? 

2. He barks and snarls at every dog while I walk him. I bring him to daycare once a month or so, and they say he's fine without me. He also barks at every man, woman and child who come near him. Any suggestions on how to make him less defensive or protective of us when we have him
out? 

The thought of rehoming Marble breaks my heart and would devastate my kids. I have restructured my whole life to try to keep him from annoying my husband. I have to avoid a lot of social functions and do less things outside the house so I don't leave him home with husband for a long period. I take him in the car with me for all the daily drop-offs and pick-ups of my kids
(and Marble does love that). My children have really pitched in, also. My daughter keeps him in her room whenever I ask, to give my husband a break from the growling. She sleeps with him, takes him to the bathroom, bathes him and takes him on walks. As long as he doesn't hear a noise, he's a very happy, playful and spoiled dog. He loves to play with my kids and chew on his toys. In all fairness to my husband, he agreed to get the dog for my kids if they would be responsible for his care. He has a very stressful job and works at home, so the dog's growling, constantly following me, etc is just too much for him. I just want to make this situation better so everyone is happy. I hope someone can help. Thanks for reading my book!

P.S. Sorry-I haven't figured out how to upload a picture yet.


----------



## Laurief

Wow - that sure does make for a stressful household! I have one who does that occassionally, and it is more a fear thing. I would bet that if you start getting Marble used to loud noises, while you are there - possibly treating him, that he might start to ignore the ones that he growls at. I am sure there are others here who can give you great advise on that!

As far as the velcro thing - that's just a Hav!!! It is in their nature to always be with their Mommy or Daddy etc. If you have not had him a long time, it may just take some time for him to feel "comfortable" in the house, and eventually you will find that he will sleep on the other side of the room, or maybe not follow you to the bathroom. I have 3 - and they often follow me everywhere!! 
I hope you are able to work out these issues as Havs are just wonderful dogs!! 
Laurie


----------



## mckennasedona

How long have you had Marble? It sounds like perhaps he didn't get much socialization during the time he was with his breeder. 
Have you spoken to a trainer about his growling issues? Perhaps an obedience class might be a good thing for Marble. Somehow he needs to learn that it isn't his "job" to alert you to every single noise. 
As for following you around, that is really a Hav thing though not all of them do it. Marble sees you as the giver of all things. I'll be you feed him, walk him, bathe him, discipline him, etc. Can your children or husband take on some of those responsibilities so that Marble might be less glued to only you?
If there is a lot of stress in your home, he could be reacting to that as well, especially if hubby doens't really like him. Dogs pick up on a lot of that. 
I'd suggest talking to a local trainer to see what they suggest you do about the barking and growling. I'm sure there is a solution for you other than re-homing the dog. Just let your hubby know that you are seeking solutions and to be patient while you learn to teach Marble how to be the family dog you want him to be.


----------



## Kathy

Marble is behaving like a typical Havanese. Since they are companion dogs they will attach themselves more to the person that cares for them the most. Growling like he is doesn't mean he is going to be agreesive, like you stated, but he is telling you something is going on he doesn't understand. Working with him consistently you can teach him this behavior is not what you want. Don't ever hit the dog though, that will only teach him to be agressive. Like other's have suggested, I too urge you to see a professional trainer and to buy the book "*HOW TO TRAIN A PUPPY YOU CAN LIVE WITH". *It also will help you with your adult dog. I would encourage the whole family to be envolved, especially your husband so he too will better understand what is going on.

Contact your breeder as I am sure he/she could be a good resource for you as well.


----------



## ivyagogo

I think it's time to bring in a behaviorist too. Have somebody come to your house so they can see for themselves the problems and how best to address them. I have dealt with some of the same problems you are having, but not at the same level as you. I wish you the best.


----------



## SMARTY

I’ve had some of the same issues with Smarty. She growls or barks at any noise, tries to attack every dog on our walks, but can go to a dog show and never do any of these things. One of the signs to look for is drooling when they are out of control. It is a sign of stress.

We had a private trainer come to the house and he said in her mind she is dominate and it is her job to take care of her pack. We have worked on this for a while and things are getting much better. To get a better grip of the problem I have recorded “the Dog Whisper” and “It’s me or the dog”. It seems over half to their shows are dealing with the same problems. 

Everyone in the home has to work to correct the problem. You must change a lot of the things you do. Marble never eats first, never goes through a door first, never walks in front of you and is never eye level with you. 

As much as I love Smarty, I created a dog totally out of balance. She is my first small dog and I spoiled her. She is still very demanding when she wants something. She dances on her hind legs, sits up shaking her front paws and looking in the direction of what she wants. If she is hungry she gets in my face and smells my lips. All of the things make her the cutest dog I have ever had contact with, but along with this come her bad habits that are hard to live with. 

Not sure this helps you at all, just know you are not alone, Good luck.


----------



## CaseysMom

Hmm, some of your story sounds familiar. Casey, also, is a growler at pretty much everything, particularly in the home. A door closing, someone coming up the stairs, etc. I chalk it up to insecurity; not agression. For that reason, I have enrolled her in obedience classes (the first class was last night, so I can't speak to the success of it yet). Once those classes are over, I plan on enrolling her in agility, as I have heard it is a great activity for insecure dogs (and alot of fun!)

Also, when we first got Casey, she was VERY attached to me, and DH didn't like that one bit. I'll come right out and say it....He was jealous! The best thing I did was go away for a week (it was work-related, so it's not like I did it on purpose). While I was gone, DH was responsible for every necessity and comfort for Casey -- the source of food, outside for pottie, grooming, loving, treats, etc. This made a huge difference, and although I would say she still favors me, she is much more bonded with DH, which makes him happy. Perhaps your DH needs to be her exercise/food/attention/affection source for a couple of solid weeks. Maybe even go so far as to tether Marble to him for a while (I'm sure Marble will protest at first, but DH could reenforce him with lots of treats and affection). 

Just some ideas.

Please keep us posted.


----------



## SMARTY

Our trainer did make a lot of sense to me in saying small dogs are not treated the same as large dogs. They are continually brought up to our level, giving them a superior attitude. As puppies we think their aggression is cute. As adults it is not. 

Smarty’s best friend is a large standard poodle that lets her win every battle, again “not good” for the adult personality. 

A past owner of large dogs, obedience training, titled dogs…..I should have know better.


----------



## mybella

I hope things work out for you. I agree with the other posts that you should seek out a dog trainer. I think it is fear and insecurity that is causing the growling.

Good luck and keep us posted as to what you do and how it works out.


----------



## marjrc

Pretty much all behavior is correctable/trainable so I'm sure there will be positive changes with your Marble once you have a good trainer help you. I would make sure not to get a trainer that uses negative reinforcements like prong collars, yelling, or smacks on the muzzle. Those just don't work and will do nothing to build Marble's confidence. 

My two will also become highly alert, growl and/or bark when they hear something moving about in the house or even when car doors slam outside. I have a radio on all day long. It's in the kitchen, main part of the house, and it really helps camouflage some of the normal sounds in the house. If that doesn't bother your hubby and his work, you could try that.  

I would highly recommend you encourage your husband to be part of the training, part of Marble's routine. I am definitely my boys' favorite human, but they do get involved with other members of our family and I try to remember to allow others to do things with and for the dogs to build that bond. I am sorry to hear Marble is a source of arguing and trouble for you and hubby. If he is willing to help fix things, then you'd be a team again and not one pitting against the other and making things worse. I hope that works out for you!


----------



## marjrc

Is there a way for Marble to go "investigate" the source of the noises he hears? Or is he gated in one area of the house and not allowed in others? If Ricky or Sammy can actually GO check out the noise, they are much less apt to actually raise the alarm. Just an idea.....


----------



## pjewel

I can feel your tension and I'm sure Marble can too. In trying to keep your husband from getting upset and setting off a chain reaction, you're trying to turn yourself into a pretzel to accommodate in any way you can. I have to agree with the group that you need some expert help learning to convert your hav's reaction to unseen disturbances in his world. Don't downplay the negative vibes your husband is letting out either as it plays heavily in the mix.

I think part of the problem is your husband really didn't want a dog and views it much as an intrusion in his life so you're constantly fighting an uphill battle. I too would like more information about your hav's past and how long he's been with you. I will tell you it can be worked out, but you need to be able to throw off some of the tension you absorb when the cycle starts. You're feeling responsible and I'll bet your insides are jumping much of the time.


----------



## Thumper

pjewel said:


> *I think part of the problem is your husband really didn't want a dog and views it much as an intrusion in his life so you're constantly fighting an uphill battle*. I too would like more information about your hav's past and how long he's been with you. I will tell you it can be worked out, but you need to be able to throw off some of the tension you absorb when the cycle starts. You're feeling responsible and I'll bet your insides are jumping much of the time.


I had the same thought when I read your post, although we could be way off mark. Maybe your DH would loosen up about the dog if he had more quiet/alone time with you?

I do have this problem of Gucci growling/barking at people coming in the house, noises she can't validate, etc. But, my HUSBAND is the one that trained her to do that because he wanted a 'watchdog', so if anything..it annoys me sometimes! lol But my husband thinks part of a dog's job is protection, I think its companionship, so like marriage, there is always compromise. I do think with work, you can train Marble to be more accepting of sounds, etc. but it won't be easy and will take time, persistance and everyone on board.

I do think they also have a tendency to be protective of us, or jealous at times...but I think they are just wired like that and bred to be companions and follow us! I can't go to the bathroom by myself anymore, lol, not even at 3am!

Maybe just keep your kids more involved in taking care of him will help too, and I do think calling a trainer in will help. I'd work this from the other side too, your DH...Husbands want us to be happy, so be careful about being flustered worrying about the dog annoying him, he might interpret that as you being annoyed with the dog and keep feeding the flame if that makes any sense.


----------



## RikiDaisyDixie

*the folks at HRI will have good suggestions*

one of the main purposes of HRI is to assist havanese owners in situations like yours, they have much experience with the things you have listed and can work with you step by step to find solutions so you can have a dog you can live with.

look at www.havaneserescue.com and click on needing assistance.

A lot has to do with temperament, and a lot of it has to do with the birth mother and the contact the puppy got with people.

I, too, had a struggle with my daughter. My dogs are very bonded to me, and she was angry about that. She now has a hamster I never touch. And a millipede. The dogs love her, but they prefer me.

My dogs have been in private training and group training. Riki was quite a barker at big dogs, mostly intact dogs. I, too, had to become alpha and not pull on the leash in fear that he associated with needing to protect me.

With any dog, it isn't good to leave a child unattended under the age of ten. When we were kids, my dogs were bonded totally with my dad because he was the alpha. My sister's dogs with her, even though she has three different breeds. Her dogs growled at her toddler too, and the toddler and the dogs need to be trained on acceptable behavior.

I hear you. I was surprised when Riki barked like a maniac as a puppy at a big dog. I was saddened when he growled at Alana. Both of these things are taken care of through training of both dog and child.

The husband is a whole other story!


----------



## irnfit

My dogs bark and growl, also. That is how dogs communicate. However, you have to be the one in control. Do not baby them when they are doing these things. Also, don't yell at them when they are doing this. They think you are yelling to join in with them. You need a deep corrective voice to let them know you are not happy with their behavior.

I agree, get some good books and if you can't afford a private trainer, get to a group class. Mine will also bark at every dog on our walks. But at a playdate, they are fine.


----------



## RikiDaisyDixie

*and the other side...*

and while my dogs do some things that aren't grand, they also don't shed, are extremely affectionate and loving, easy to take on walks as their exercise needs are not excessive, eat small amounts of food and have small poops to clean up.

When my daughter was small, I told him that she really lit up when he held her. While that may or may not have been true, it helped him bond with her...I applauded him every time he made overtures toward her...

Notice if the dog is attentive to your hubby and tell him that the dog really likes him...it might work!

Like the other threads, some husbands already have less of us because of our kids, and now the dog. Maybe working at home makes it hard too for him to feel "appreciated" as he doesn't have his work buddies to chum with.

Good luck!


----------



## Lina

Kubrick growls at sounds outside and sometimes if he's in a deep sleep in the living room with me and DH has been in the bedroom for a while and comes out to go to the bathroom or something, it will startle Kubrick and he will growl a bit until I tell him to "Go see" and he trots off in the direction of the sound.

Have you tried doing this with Marble? When Kubrick was younger and would growl at sounds that hubby (or whoever) was making in another room, I would say in a very happy voice "Let's go see what it is!" And I would get up and walk over to wherever the sound was and say something like "it's just daddy" or whatever it was. If it was something new that Kubrick seemed wary of, and I would do this even without sounds, I would approach whatever it was and be very excited about it, touch it and talk in a very happy voice. He would immediately come up to investigate and I would praise, praise praise. Now I can just tell Kubrick to "Go see" and he will go by himself, find out it's nothing, and be calm. He will bark/growl at people outside the door, but that's something that I don't mind at all. I know it's not aggression because if you don't open the door right away, he will do this grrwhinegrrwhine thing because he's trying to tell us that there is someone outside and could you PLEASE open the door so he can say hi to them! Once the door opens, he stops, and that's what's important. The growling at noises is, I think, very much a type of communication and is the dog's way of saying that he is unsure of what that something is and it's invading his territory. By standing up and taking him to see what it is (do NOT carry him - have him approach at his own pace - you don't want to scare him), you are teaching him that it's better to go check something out than to sit there and freak out.


----------



## Posh's Mom

Sounds like you need to rehome your husband.  

In all seriousness, you're getting great advice here. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Scooter's Family

Not sure how your home is set up but can you close off your husband's office? My DH often works from home and his office is in the basement where there are several doors we can close. Today I was gone from 9am-2pm and Scooter was in the office with him, he said he whined and paced often. That's the first time he's done that! I have everyone, DH and the kids, participate in feeding, playing, training, etc. but Scooter is still "my" doggie. I don't mind it but sometimes everyone else does!

We don't have a growling problem but he does bark at anything outside. It's getting better, lots of reassurance when he does it. If he's at the door barking we go look, say in a normal tone of voice "Oh, that's the (UPS guy, mailman, yard men, etc.)" and turn and walk away. As soon as he knows it's no big deal he usually stops. Not sure if that's the right thing to do or not but it's helping.

I'd definitely look into a trainer or behaviorist. A dog should add to the joy in your home, not be a source of tension. 

Good luck to you! These are the sweetest dogs!


----------



## isshinryu_mom

I don't really have any other advice for you other than the excellent advice you've gotten here... I just wanted to say "welcome" to the forum. I have a hav who is fearful of strangers and barks at them (as well as strange noises, things in the yard, etc.) She calms down a lot faster when we remain calm, I've noticed. 

Look forward to hearing more about Marble... and seeing some pictures too!


----------



## marb42

Thank you so much to all of you who responded with such great feedback!!!! You have all given me a lot to think about. 

pjewel - Here is a little background. He was born October 25, 2006, and the breeder shipped him to us by airplane on January 5th. Susan - the breeder said that he was with his littermates at all times and that he was one of the smaller ones. I'm not certain how much exposure to people he had. We have had him for almost 2 years now. I have read the Dog Whisperer books, watched the tv shows and browsed through many others at the bookstore. Kathy - I look forward to finding "HOW TO TRAIN A PUPPY YOU CAN LIVE WITH" and contacting the havaneserescue.com (thanks Linda, i think that will help). He usually roams the house all day (by my feet, of course, but he spends a little time in his exercise pen. He actually 

Laurie, you are very right about the velcro thing-he definitely wants to be right at our feet at all times. Gucci's mom - I have tried to make Marble more independent and give my husband some relief by putting him in his exercise pen in the house. When Marble has had a day of less growling and a little time away, my husband isn't as bothered with him. I now give him his meals in the exercise pen and leave him in for an hour or so. I give him a treat every time he's put in there so he associates it with something good. He doesn't whine in there anymore unless it's been too long. That helps a bit, and I thought it would make him a little more confident if he could separate comfortably. I also let my daughter take him in her room for an hour or two and to sleep. He is attached to the kids but more so to me, probably because I have been with him all day since he was a puppy.

I agree with all of you. He is growling out of fear and lack of confidence. I have also been watching "It's Me or the Dog" and recognize his fearful behavior. He is never aggressive to any of us, including my husband (only to dogs or people outside). I have tried to say "no" firmly when he growls. I have tried telling him "it's just daddy, etc" I have also said "good boy, quiet" after he stops growling. I have tried to put him in the bathroom and say "no growl" to show that he if he growls he will make us go away. I'm just not nailing it. Sandy - I, too, have created a dog out of balance because he is so cute and little. I can tell that early on I reinforced his fear by babying him. Lina and Marj, I'll try your suggestion to get up each time and walk him over to the noise. I have tried showing him the noise but perhaps not consistently enough.

Ann- I wish I could close his office, but I work in it with him. And, with all the computers, it gets pretty hot with the door closed. I hope it gets better with Scooter. Marble used to whine when I'd leave, but now he is ok, as long as it's not more than 4 hours or so. He seems to feel secure in his exercise pen. I used to let him roam free if I left him with my husband, but he seemed to pace a lot more and whine. How old is Scooter?

Elaina, I hope Casey's classes go well, and I'd love to hear how things progress. Marj, thanks for the hope that all behavior is correctable. isshinryu_mom- thanks for the welcome and the advice.

Thanks again, everyone. I think a trainer is a great idea.

Gina


----------



## Sissygirl

I just wanted to add that maybe DH should have a ritual with
your furbaby. My DH gives Sissy a treat every night at 7 p.m. - so when he gets home from work Sissy is kissing and loving on him. She sticks to
him like glue. 

It's funny because Sissy has a relationship with every member of the
family and loves on us all differently. She loves to sit in DH's lap while he is on the computer. 

Also, you might have Marbles eyes checked. Is he seeing properly?
Just a thought that maybe he's not able to see and he's responding by
growling.

Sissy rarely barks, growls, etc. But I realized that when her hair was
in her eyes she would ruff under her breath more. 

Just one more thought - maybe DH could fill a empty clean pill bottle with peanut butter
and he could dip his finger in it and give Marble a taste. Then he could say "Come" about once
and hour and give the lick. If Marble likes peanut butter boy they will be fast friends. 
I did that when teaching Sissy to come when called from outside.

Hope you find the right combination for Marble.


----------



## Sheri

Marie, what a fun, handy idea about peanut butter in a pill bottle! You could have it handy all the time that way. Clever...out on a walk, in the back yard...if it was already in your pocket.

Sheri


----------



## Scooter's Family

Gina-

Scooter is 8 months old now. DH wasn't too thrilled with the idea of a puppy but really went along with it because I wanted one so badly. Just last night though, we were out in the backyard and DH was doing RLH with Scooter! They were both running in circles around each other and I was laughing hysterically! When he (DH) finally collapsed on the steps he said, "This little guy makes me laugh every day!"

I love the peanut butter idea! Boiled bits of chicken are great as well. Maybe if Marble associates your husband with the good treats things will calm down in your house.

All the best to you, sounds like you're trying so hard!


----------



## Laurief

I love that idea about the bottle with the Peanut Butter!!! Since My Lily barks at every person that walks,or rides past our house, I might try that. When she starts, I cant seem to break the cycle, but maybe this would work.
Thanks for the idea!
I hope Marble is able to get over this!!


----------



## Havtahava

marb42 said:


> I agree with all of you. He is growling out of fear and lack of confidence. I have also been watching "It's Me or the Dog" and recognize his fearful behavior. He is never aggressive to any of us, including my husband (only to dogs or people outside). *I have tried to say "no" firmly when he growls.* I have tried telling him "it's just daddy, etc" I have also said "good boy, quiet" after he stops growling. *I have tried to put him in the bathroom and say "no growl" to show that he if he growls he will make us go away.* I'm just not nailing it. ... Lina and Marj, I'll try your suggestion to get up each time and walk him over to the noise. I have tried showing him the noise but perhaps not consistently enough.


Gina, it sounds like you've been trying many different things, but I'd recommend that you do not punish/correct growling, especially since you know it is obviously from fear and lack of confidence. Having him investigate it will teach him that he doesn't need to be worried about that noise any more. Don't baby him either (and it sounds like you get that), but *empower *him.


----------



## isshinryu_mom

What a great suggestion to use the pill bottle and peanut butter... I am sick of sticking my hands in the pockets of jackets, sweaters, sweatshirts, etc. and finding old, dried up doggie treats!


----------



## marb42

Thank you so much for all the great advice. I at least have some hope!

Marie - That is a great idea about filling the pill bottle with peanut butter, and it would be good for walks, training, etc. I, too, have the problem with him barking at every person and dog that walks by, Laurief. Also, having the eyes checked is something I haven't thought of. I'm not sure how thorough the vet checked his eyes at the last appointment, but it's a good idea. 

As far as the hubby, Marie and Ann may be onto something about getting the dog to associate DH with treats. I think my DH will be more accepting of him, too, if Marble isn't constantly growling.

I think you're right about not punishing him for growling, Kimberly. The most I have done is give him a time out in another room, but that doesn't seem to work, either. I have been trying to walk him over the to noise (something I gave up on a while back). We'll see if consistency will help. I am trying to narrow down a trainer to come into the home. I found a few, but it's hard to choose.

I live in a small town, so there's not as many options. One trainer works for a franchise called Bark Busters, and she has great testimonials. The other one has a degree in Animal Behavior and has worked at the local zoo training, but she doesn't have a lot of testimonials.


----------



## ivyagogo

Gryff is very much attached to me. Lately, my husband has been taking him out to potty much more and Gryff has really responded to it. He is still at my feet most of the time, but if I'm in the room with DH, Gryff will give him the time of day. If I leave the room, even if he and DH are rolling around playing, Gryff will stop everything and follow me out the door. That's just the way it is. At least they have more of a relationship now. Same thing with my son. The history there is that Gryff used to growl at him all the time. Alec worked with him by feeding him and taking him out and leaving him be if he was sleeping/resting. That has helped a lot too.


----------



## gelbergirl

I found that the book "How to raise a puppy you can live with" was helpful.
It helped me understand how the dog thinks.

It also helped to have Henry work at times. Meaning he would have to bring a toy at the end of the night, bring it to me at the bed, then he would be lifted on to the bed for night night.

I think the dog also needs to be around dogs more often, playdates with anyone you know who has a dig, PetSmart classes, or even a trip to the pet store just for a run0in with another dog. It's a confidence problem.

Good luck, it sounds like there needs to be some behavior changes with the household.


----------



## Cosmosmom

A lot of wisdom from other hav Mommies .. 
They are so right - these dogs are very social and need to be around you .. As to the growling and barking to noises etc I agree a behaviorist should be able to help .. 
I think the little guy needs to learn the hierarchy in the house- who is the pack leader .. I also think you husband needs to learn to accept the dog and that he is part of the family . It sounds to me like there is an subtle ultimatium it is me or the dog .. 
You got the dog for the children but these dogs do not discriminate and they need to herd us all together and make us one happy family .. 
I agree he might be picking up some negativity from your husband as it seems like the entire family is on notice .. Get him in line or else ..
Hopefully you will be able to find someone to set you in the right direction ..good luck ..
These are wonderful little dogs but sometimes it takes time and patience and a little understanding .
I understand your husband works at home but is it not possible for him to close his door so he has the privacy and space he needs ..


----------



## BeverlyA

I think you've gotten some great idea's and I hope something will click and help you find some peace in your house.

These little buggers are very in tune with our emotions it seems and when there is stress or some other friction they can sense it and may act differently because of it. I know mine will anyway. I got the impression from your post that you're trying to run interference between Marble and your DH and that DH doesn't really want the dog around so you're trying to keep him happy so Marble can stay. I might be way off, but if this is the case, I can sure see how this could be a stressful situation for you.

I would agree that professional help is probably your best bet, with all involved and working together as a team. We were having some issues with our pack of 3, and it sure made a difference having someone come to our house and see what actually happens here in the specific situations.

Amy, you absolutely crack me up! ound:

Beverly


----------



## marb42

Ivy, I guess that's a Havanese trait. Marble has a great relationship with my kids, but he also interrupts what he's doing if I start to walk somewhere. I did so much of his round-the-clock care since the kids were at school, and now I think he just got more attached to me. By the way, my son's name is Alec, too. We rarely find another Alec, just Alex's.

I can't wait to take a look at the book, "How to raise a puppy you can live with". This has been especially hard because I have never raised a dog before. I think I just coddled and spoiled and encouraged those fearful behaviors early on. I do try to bring him to the pet store and often take him around people at my kids' tennis lessons, but I am a little nervous with him around other dogs. He snarls and looks like he's going to bite, even if it's a very calm dog approaching him. Although, they say he's fine at doggie daycare when I'm not there.

Cosmosmom, you're correct about the hierarchy. He listens to us about 50% of the time, but there are times, I'll call him, and he won't move. Also, he definitely walks out the door first, pulls on his walk, etc. - all signs that he doesn't view us as leaders. I think I got in the habit of letting him out first, because he's so small. I was always afraid if he wasn't right in front of me, I'd step on his foot. I guess these are all things the trainer will be able to help with. Another strange thing he does is he stands in the middle of pathways and doesn't move out of the way if we are walking toward him. We usually have to walk around him???

Beverly, sadly, you're right about that. I think Marble has just annoyed my DH so much, that he wants me to rehome him. However, he has not forced me to, because he knows how much it would hurt the kids. I am absolutely determined to find a way to train Marble and make everyone happy.


----------



## BeverlyA

I didn't have time to check for sure, but I THINK that book is available on the HRI auction right now! You could get it, plus the money would go towards helping homeless Havs! The auction ends tomorrow morning though! You can find the auction site by going to the the forum home page, then clicking on the "HRI" or Havanese Rescue link, then find where it is talking about the auction....THEN I think the very last page of items is books! 
Best of luck!
Beverly


----------



## ama0722

Welcome to the forum and I am glad you came here for help before thinking about placing him. My DH occasionally likes to work at home and this makes the dogs so excited as it is a change in their day too and they don't understand why he needs to work. The best thing that works for me is to take the dogs on a long long walk that morning so they are too tired to run around, bark, play in his office and especially annoy DH. A tired dog is usually a quiet dog 

Amanda


----------



## gelbergirl

I would also make sure the little guy has a crate nearby, wherever he hangs out.
In case he wants to be alone. Crates are the safe-haven, not just for sleeping but for taking a breather, a time-out either self-imposed or by you.

So , yeah, he should have a couple of crates, not just in your bedroom say.


----------



## marb42

Beverly, thanks I will check it out. Sounds like a good book to get back to the basics. Thanks for the welcome, Amanda. Everyone has been so helpful and supportive. I wish I had found this when he was a puppy because it has so much information. I will definitely increase Marble's exercise. Perhaps a few walks spread out during the day would be good. gelbergirl, thanks for the crates idea. It's funny - he has a large exercise pen with all his little toys, bed, etc. and he does growl about 50% less in there. Maybe he feels more secure.


----------



## davetgabby

marb42 said:


> Ivy, I guess that's a Havanese trait. Marble has a great relationship with my kids, but he also interrupts what he's doing if I start to walk somewhere. I did so much of his round-the-clock care since the kids were at school, and now I think he just got more attached to me. By the way, my son's name is Alec, too. We rarely find another Alec, just Alex's.
> 
> I can't wait to take a look at the book, "How to raise a puppy you can live with". This has been especially hard because I have never raised a dog before. I think I just coddled and spoiled and encouraged those fearful behaviors early on. I do try to bring him to the pet store and often take him around people at my kids' tennis lessons, but I am a little nervous with him around other dogs. He snarls and looks like he's going to bite, even if it's a very calm dog approaching him. Although, they say he's fine at doggie daycare when I'm not there.
> 
> Cosmosmom, you're correct about the hierarchy. He listens to us about 50% of the time, but there are times, I'll call him, and he won't move. Also, he definitely walks out the door first, pulls on his walk, etc. - all signs that he doesn't view us as leaders. I think I got in the habit of letting him out first, because he's so small. I was always afraid if he wasn't right in front of me, I'd step on his foot. I guess these are all things the trainer will be able to help with. Another strange thing he does is he stands in the middle of pathways and doesn't move out of the way if we are walking toward him. We usually have to walk around him???
> 
> Beverly, sadly, you're right about that. I think Marble has just annoyed my DH so much, that he wants me to rehome him. However, he has not forced me to, because he knows how much it would hurt the kids. I am absolutely determined to find a way to train Marble and make everyone happy.


This has nothing to do with hierarchy or dominance. Sounds like your dog is insecure like you have said. You want to make good things happen when your dog meets others.ie. a valued treat. and that the good things end when they leave. Here is one of many articles that refute this whole DOMINANCE /HEIRARCHY fallacy. It might be one of the most important things you can read. If you would like other similar articles by noted authorities , I can email them to you. Everyone in the family has to work with this dog to gain his confidence.http://dogpublic.com/articles/article.aspx?t=training411&sid=14&pid=1640


----------



## marb42

Thanks - you've given me alot to think about. The article was an eye-opener, since I've heard so much about the dominance theory and the importance of hierarchy, even on the well-known tv shows.


----------



## Cosmosmom

There are a lot of books out there .. I think I must have them all .. Some suggestions and advice seemed to work and others not as much .. You have to find your own centre and balance .. I know when i am not feeling well the dogs sense it and then that is when they may try something .. 
I try and be positive and let them know that I am in charge and I know what I am doing .. They need to know this as sometimes they have doubts so they feel it is up to them to run the show. 
just one point in the hierachy issue make sure you eat first - the dogs have to wait for you to eat .. Have a routine and try to mainain it every day - they like consistency in their lives as much as possible especially in the beginning when they do not know whats what and who is in charge and going to be bringing them their food .. .. 
Once I became more consistent wth walking feeding and pottying - sort of like bringing home the newborn and getting it on a schedule it worked better ..
Every dog is different .. Keep an open mind What I did for Asta did not work for Cosmo .. I had to reinvent it .. Asta was much more intiuitive and less demanding .
If you involve your children in feeding and walking have the same person do it at the same time every day .. Do not switch off because of busy schedules .. Be consistent as much as you can ..
Take the time to think things through and make sure it will work .. before you institute it or you set yourself up for failure .


----------



## ivyagogo

I was very much in your situation when I found this board. Gryff was only a few months old, but I knew we had a problem. I remember being in tears when I found the site. I was waiting for my application to the site to clear and I emailed Melissa and begged to have her hurry the process through. It was an awful time for me. I felt so much better just by the comments I received here. I had no idea how to go about changing the heirarchy in our house. All the comments and help really did work. Gryff and Alec will never have the relationship I had wanted (a boy and his dog kind of thing), but they do play together and the growling had almost stopped. What is good now is that when Gryff does growl, Alec can stand up to it and be the boss.

Gryff also used to be very afraid of other dogs. He didn't bark or challenge them, he would cower away. I brought him to Laurie's playdate where he famously hid under the bushes all day long. Through lots of exposure, he is much, much better with other dogs now. What helps him the most with other dogs is taking a walk with them on his leash. As soon as we walk together, he will start to play - which he did last week with an enormous German Sheperd and two Goldens. It is really funny the way he plays with bigger dogs. He jumps around like Muhammad Ali all around the other dog. It cracks me up. With smaller dogs, he is totally rough and tumble.

Really, it will take some time - months perhaps - but it will all work out if you and your family are very patient. I will try to search for my original posting here so you can see how things started to turn around for us.

** I couldn't find the original thread, but here is one where I am giving an update. It might help you feel better. 
http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=1897&


----------



## Connie Palsgreen

I think you must get out and socialize him something more, it is due is that he is not sure - I must have some puppies playgroup with you, because it is a shame for you and the dog. You should perhaps begin to go to any training with him where he can get some confidence and a Havanese will always be around his flock and it is also obliged to acept - such is the -- 
I hope that you will find a solution and a good coach


----------



## Cosmosmom

Socialization is important no doubt about it .. Puppy classes or doggie obdedience It is important to find the right fit as a lot of classes have big dogs which can be physically and mentally intimidating . Just take it slowly and pay attention to the signals you are getting from your dog and make sure it is not too fearful and getting stressed . 
It was hard with Cosmo as he was always getting carsick and nauseous and that was a bad start for him .. He did love his puppy class once he was there and got over his nausea .. The first two weeks were a little challenging as he barked a lot .. We just decided the best thing to do was to keep going and in the end he was a star pupil ..
I found our kitchen remodel was a positive experience as they got to met a lot of different men and all of them had different tools and they were exposed to a lot of noise ..
Cosmo is much more friendly and tolerant now


----------



## marb42

Cosmos mom, thanks for the advice. I'll keep trying until something fits or works. I have tried things that seemed to work for others but not for Marble, so I will try to remember that like, kids, they're all different. Something I haven't tried is having my kids consistently feed Marble dinner - anything to get im to associate positive things with someone other than me.

Yep, Marble definitely needs more socialization. When I take him around people, I have to work very hard to control his barking, growling and attempts to chase them. I try to do that as often as possible. Dogs are another story, so hopefully the trainer can help with that.

Ivy, I'm, sorry about Gryff and Alec, but it sounds like you've make good progress. Thanks you for showing me the thread. Alec's scooter reminded me of another one off Marble's issues. He goes insane when he sees a stroller, bike or scooter. The story about your behaviorist was funny. Sounds like she was on the right track, and it really helped. It's hard for kids to understand how to interact with a dog, especially a small dog that's a little more fearful than something like a Lab. I also understand why Alec felt jealous. Training and caring for a puppy takes a tremendous amount of time and energy.

The trainer is coming tomorrow night, so hopefully we'll make some progress


----------



## marb42

The trainer came last night, and I thought I'd share her advice for any others who have some growling issues. She did notice Marble was fearful, and he growled at her for the first 10 minutes. We overloaded him with noises around the house, and I had to correct him by saying "no growl" within 3 seconds . As soon as he stopped, I had to pet him and tell him "good boy." Now, this was something I've already been doing, but she said it just might take a lot of time to break this. Once someone distracted him with treats while the noise was being made, he could care less about the noise. She concluded that he has learned he can get a lot of attention when he growls (and for the first year and a half of his life, I would pet and soothe him when he was afraid). So, we're to practice making noises 10 minutes a day, and we each take a turn being the one to correct him.

As far as lessening his dependence on me, she had a mild approach, which is what I wanted. She said to practice ignoring him 15 minutes a day, and perhaps he'll do something else or go to someone else. It's just a simple thing. 

One other thing I mentioned to her was the fact that he stands in walkways and won't move. It's strange that he doesn't move when he sees a big human approach him, but he doesn't. She said to shuffle slowly with our feet and shuffle gently through him. 

That's all we could fit in this session.


----------



## isshinryu_mom

Sounds like good advice to me  I commend you for taking such steps to help your fur baby learn to live in her family! Good luck with your training, please keep posting updates on your progress.


----------



## marb42

Thank you. I will let you know how it goes


----------



## Scooter's Family

We can learn vicariously through you! These dogs are so sweet but they are lots of work too. Good luck to you!!


----------



## Perugina

ivyagogo said:


> What helps him the most with other dogs is taking a walk with them on his leash. As soon as we walk together, he will start to play - which he did last week with an enormous German Sheperd and two Goldens. It is really funny the way he plays with bigger dogs. He jumps around like Muhammad Ali all around the other dog. It cracks me up. With smaller dogs, he is totally rough and tumble.
> 
> Really, it will take some time - months perhaps - but it will all work out if you and your family are very patient. I will try to search for my original posting here so you can see how things started to turn around for us.
> 
> ** I couldn't find the original thread, but here is one where I am giving an update. It might help you feel better.
> http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=1897&


It's true about the walk! This is the first thing Ceasar Millan (Dog Whisperer) will do when trying to get a shy or aggressive dog to get along with other dogs.


----------



## Perugina

isshinryu_mom said:


> Sounds like good advice to me  I commend you for taking such steps to help your fur baby learn to live in her family! Good luck with your training, please keep posting updates on your progress.


Yes, it sounds like you have a good behaviorist that uses a positive and calm approach. It's all about desensitizing him to the things that set him off. It will be a lot of work but worth it in the end. I look forward to your updates!


----------



## marb42

Thanks Ann, I hope it helps someone else. I have learned so much from reading everyone’s posts on the forum. Ivy, the walk is a great idea and something I haven’t tried yet. I will have to find someone around my neighborhood. I think it would help. My son took him today, and Marble didn’t lunge and growl at a loose Pom on our street. He does that more when I am with him. Oh, and the avatar with the deer driving and human on top of the car is a riot.
Gina


----------

