# How a Harness Should Fit



## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I think everyone knows that using a harness instead of a collar can avoid pressure on the trachea. However, harnesses have the ability to cause a lot of other problems, particularly with the shoulders. Here is an article that discusses these points and explains what to look for. I have been using a Buddy Belt most recently but I no longer think this is a good choice. I am currently trying out a few others. Right now I am trying the Blue9 Balance harness which seems pretty good. I like all the the adjustment points, especially the one on the back to help keep the strap behind the legs far enough back. I am sure there are others out there that would work. The article explains what to look for.









A myotherapists perspective on harnesses


A myotherapist explains the impact damaging effects of poor equipment and important anatomical considerations.




bharcsblog.wordpress.com


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I just wanted to add that the Buddy Belt may work for some if loose enough. However, on my yorkie it seems restrictive. And if I go to the next size it is way too big. So much depends on the individual dog and how a harness fits them.


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## GoWithTheFlo (Oct 11, 2018)

mudpuppymama said:


> I think everyone knows that using a harness instead of a collar can avoid pressure on the trachea. However, harnesses have the ability to cause a lot of other problems, particularly with the shoulders. Here is an article that discusses these points and explains what to look for. I have been using a Buddy Belt most recently but I no longer think this is a good choice. I am currently trying out a few others. Right now I am trying the Blue9 Balance harness which seems pretty good. I like all the the adjustment points, especially the one on the back to help keep the strap behind the legs far enough back. I am sure there are others out there that would work. The article explains what to look for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post Mudpuppymama! Am now thinking of stopping Flo wearing her tre ponti harness and keeping her in her petsafe 3 in 1 instead. x


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

GoWithTheFlo said:


> Thanks for this post Mudpuppymama! Am now thinking of stopping Flo wearing her tre ponti harness and keeping her in her petsafe 3 in 1 instead. x


I have a pile of “reject harnesses” if it makes you feel any better! I think I could write a 500 page book on what I wish I had known before getting a dog!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

GoWithTheFlo said:


> Thanks for this post Mudpuppymama! Am now thinking of stopping Flo wearing her tre ponti harness and keeping her in her petsafe 3 in 1 instead. x


Please let us know how it works out for you and what Flo’s size is. This could help others. I think finding harnesses for the really small Havanese could be more difficult. I think both my dogs are built a little odd. My yorkie is very long bodied but slimmer than a Havanese. Mia Is 12 inches tall and it is only 12 1/2 inches from her shoulders to base of tail!!! I guess she is built like a box!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Okay guys I am out of control. I just ordered this harness which appears to fit like it should but we will see. Soft material and made in USA too. Sale going on now.









Hemp Dog Harness RED Corduroy


Our Hemp Dog Harness Red Corduroy is soft and durable. This H-Style Harness is comfortable to your “best friend” Handcrafted in USA.




www.thegooddogcompany.com


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## Pumpkin (Mar 18, 2021)

Harness wasn't easy to find (we tried 4 different ones on amazon and was too big). A friend refer the Products – Pretty Paw Canada .

Pumpkin got a size 0. What I liked about this store is the owner did a face time to help with the measurements and the fit was perfect. She seems very comfy in it, walk well, and doesn't slip off easy . This is so far our favorite brand.

Photo of her posing with the Pretty Paw Harness


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## stephsu (Apr 27, 2020)

I have worked with two different trainers and each recommended a different harness. I use both currently and like things about each of them, but neither is perfect. Otto is only 10 months old so I think he might still grow a bit more but one of his harnesses is getting a little tighter. I still have a little room to adjust it but will definitely read your article before committing to a new one. Thanks!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I think everyone knows that using a harness instead of a collar can avoid pressure on the trachea. However, harnesses have the ability to cause a lot of other problems, particularly with the shoulders. Here is an article that discusses these points and explains what to look for. I have been using a Buddy Belt most recently but I no longer think this is a good choice. I am currently trying out a few others. Right now I am trying the Blue9 Balance harness which seems pretty good. I like all the the adjustment points, especially the one on the back to help keep the strap behind the legs far enough back. I am sure there are others out there that would work. The article explains what to look for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is why I changed to the Petsafe 3-1 a number of years ago. The reason I like that one more than the Blue9 is that I really like the material they line the Petsafe one with. I found that it is much easier on the Havanese coat, especially the ones in full coat, than the plain nylon webbing ones.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I have a pile of “reject harnesses” if it makes you feel any better! I think I could write a 500 page book on what I wish I had known before getting a dog!


Me too! LOL! And now, even the 3-in-1 doesn't work on Kodi, because he has a big lipoma on his chest wall, RIGHT where a harness would sit. ...And removing it would just mean the straps would sit on scar tissue. So, just another good reason to teach your dog to walk on a loose leash, even though a good harness might keep them from hurting themselves. You never know when a harness might not work! Kodi Has to walk on a collar, but fortunately, it's not an issue, because he is reliable enough that he never pulls on his neck.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Please let us know how it works out for you and what Flo’s size is. This could help others. I think finding harnesses for the really small Havanese could be more difficult. I think both my dogs are built a little odd. My yorkie is very long bodied but slimmer than a Havanese. Mia Is 12 inches tall and it is only 12 1/2 inches from her shoulders to base of tail!!! I guess she is built like a box!


Her Papillon showing!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Okay guys I am out of control. I just ordered this harness which appears to fit like it should but we will see. Soft material and made in USA too. Sale going on now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice material... I can tell you right now that the placement of the body buckle would be hard for a Havanese in coat. What I LIKE about the 3-in-1 is that with the two buckles, you DON'T have to put it over the dg's head (and many dogs don't like that) AND the buckles are all close the the top of the dog, so it's easy to keep your hand between the buckle and the hair to prevent pinching when you are doing it up on a long-haired dog.

NOW... If they could KEEP this material, and alter their buckle placement to match the 3-in-1... it would be pretty perfect!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Pumpkin said:


> Harness wasn't easy to find (we tried 4 different ones on amazon and was too big). A friend refer the Products – Pretty Paw Canada .
> 
> Pumpkin got a size 0. What I liked about this store is the owner did a face time to help with the measurements and the fit was perfect. She seems very comfy in it, walk well, and doesn't slip off easy . This is so far our favorite brand.
> 
> ...


The type of harness isn't AS important for little puppies, because they aren't doing a lot of distance walking in them. (or shouldn't be!!!) By the time they are old enough to be doing long leash walks, where shoulder damage is a possibility, they SHOULD be old enough for their grown-up harness!


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## stephsu (Apr 27, 2020)

krandall said:


> The type of harness isn't AS important for little puppies, because they aren't doing a lot of distance walking in them. (or shouldn't be!!!) By the time they are old enough to be doing long leash walks, where shoulder damage is a possibility, they SHOULD be old enough for their grown-up harness!


Curious how long a long leash walk is considered and at what age that is ok. We still only walk locally in my neighborhood or around a pond behind my house.


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## stephsu (Apr 27, 2020)

Curious what you all think about 2 Hounds Freedom harness and Petsafe Easy Walk harness. Those are the two that we currently use.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

stephsu said:


> Curious how long a long leash walk is considered and at what age that is ok. We still only walk locally in my neighborhood or around a pond behind my house.


Typically they shouldn't be doing leash walks that are more than following THEM around on a leash until they are about a year old. Especially if it is on pavement. This is the time when you should be teaching loose leash walking skills. But that should be short distances, and short amounts of time. 10 yards of PERFECT loose leash walking is MUCH more effective training than a mile of constantly yanking and TRYING to get the puppy to behave and listen.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

stephsu said:


> Curious what you all think about 2 Hounds Freedom harness and Petsafe Easy Walk harness. Those are the two that we currently use.


Both of these harnesses come right across the shoulders, causing the kind of restriction that Mudpuppy mama was warning about. Most sports people no longer use this type of harness. They are better for the trachea of SOME breeds. I started looking for something different when I tried this type of harness on Panda, who is a shorter, "thicker" style of Havanese than my two Starborn dogs. The Easywalk harness, easily cleared their tracheas. There was no good way to adjust it on Panda. If I adjusted it low enough that it didn't it her in the trachea, she just stepped through it, and... that was that. Loose puppy.
Around the same time, I ALSO learned more about how they restricted the shoulders, and looked for a better alternative. 

A trainer friend introduced me to the Petsafe 3-in-1. I was a little dubious that all those straps would cause Panda, who was showing and 9 months old at the time to mat badly. Because it DOESN't come across the shoulders, there is no movement back and forth under the straps, which means less matting. The buckles are in the right places, AND the lining also prevents matting. Over all, they are the best harnesses I've ever used.

And, of course, people start relying on front-attach harnesses, which were ALWAYS only meant to be a training tool while people were TRANING their dog to walk on a loose leash. Now people use them as a crutch, and never move on from there. The nice thing about the 3-in-one is that once your dog knows how to walk properly, (which should ALWAYS be the goal!) you can just switch the clip to the back rather than the front. If they worked up over something, you can switch it back as a reminder.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> That is why I changed to the Petsafe 3-1 a number of years ago. The reason I like that one more than the Blue9 is that I really like the material they line the Petsafe one with. I found that it is much easier on the Havanese coat, especially the ones in full coat, than the plain nylon webbing ones.


I may have to add that to my collection. Problem is the one adjustment that is missing on that one is the one I think I need most for the yorkie. But it may be okay and I just have to try it.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Nice material... I can tell you right now that the placement of the body buckle would be hard for a Havanese in coat. What I LIKE about the 3-in-1 is that with the two buckles, you DON'T have to put it over the dg's head (and many dogs don't like that) AND the buckles are all close the the top of the dog, so it's easy to keep your hand between the buckle and the hair to prevent pinching when you are doing it up on a long-haired dog.
> 
> NOW... If they could KEEP this material, and alter their buckle placement to match the 3-in-1... it would be pretty perfect!


i don’t have to worry so much about coat with the yorkie so it may work for him. I do like the type that does not go over the head. The Blue9 is like the Petsafe in that regard which is very nice.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Me too! LOL! And now, even the 3-in-1 doesn't work on Kodi, because he has a big lipoma on his chest wall, RIGHT where a harness would sit. ...And removing it would just mean the straps would sit on scar tissue. So, just another good reason to teach your dog to walk on a loose leash, even though a good harness might keep them from hurting themselves. You never know when a harness might not work! Kodi Has to walk on a collar, but fortunately, it's not an issue, because he is reliable enough that he never pulls on his neck.


My yorkie has a lipoma on the shoulder...another reason to avoid pressure on the shoulder!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> i don’t have to worry so much about coat with the yorkie so it may work for him. I do like the type that does not go over the head. The Blue9 is like the Petsafe in that regard which is very nice.


I didn't see a clip for the head part.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> My yorkie has a lipoma on the shoulder...another reason to avoid pressure on the shoulder!


Annoying things!!!


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## stephsu (Apr 27, 2020)

krandall said:


> Both of these harnesses come right across the shoulders, causing the kind of restriction that Mudpuppy mama was warning about. Most sports people no longer use this type of harness. They are better for the trachea of SOME breeds. I started looking for something different when I tried this type of harness on Panda, who is a shorter, "thicker" style of Havanese than my two Starborn dogs. The Easywalk harness, easily cleared their tracheas. There was no good way to adjust it on Panda. If I adjusted it low enough that it didn't it her in the trachea, she just stepped through it, and... that was that. Loose puppy.
> Around the same time, I ALSO learned more about how they restricted the shoulders, and looked for a better alternative.
> 
> A trainer friend introduced me to the Petsafe 3-in-1. I was a little dubious that all those straps would cause Panda, who was showing and 9 months old at the time to mat badly. Because it DOESN't come across the shoulders, there is no movement back and forth under the straps, which means less matting. The buckles are in the right places, AND the lining also prevents matting. Over all, they are the best harnesses I've ever used.
> ...


Thanks, I will buy the 3 in 1 and try it out. I do use the front clip on the harness. 😖 I will practice more with the back one. Thanks! I feel like I am getting the wrong advice from the trainers now...


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> I didn't see a clip for the head part.


Yes you are right. This one does not but I was hoping the soft material might compensate for it! I definitely prefer not going over the head, although neither of mine really mind it too much. With all the walking my yorkie does if I can find a couple harnesses that are good for shoulders and joints I will just rotate them. Sort of like having more than one pair of shoes.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

stephsu said:


> Thanks, I will buy the 3 in 1 and try it out. I do use the front clip on the harness. 😖 I will practice more with the back one. Thanks! I feel like I am getting the wrong advice from the trainers now...


It’s not a matter of “practicing” with the back clip. It’s a matter of teaching consistent loose leash walking skills. When he is consistently walking on a loose leash, never pulling on the leash, it really doesn’t matter WHERE the leash is attached!

I taught Kodi the “traditional” way, on a leash, trying treats, luring, talking to him, trying to keep his attention, etc, etc. practicing and practicing. It took YEARS before he was really reliable, either in terms of loose leash walking or REALLY good heeling. 

By the time the girls came along, I knew better. The girls never learned that they could disengage while they were “working”. They never LEARNED that pulling on a leash was possible. They never had a leash on them except as an “emergency brake” that was really never used until they were already walking at my side without ANY leash for long stretches. I am not saying there are never any lapses, and they never need any reminders, because of course they do. They are dogs. But it wasn’t a leash or special harness that taught them not to pull, and they didn’t learn it by practicing with a particular piece of equipment. They actually learned with no leash at all!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I must have spent hours reading size charts and recommendations before I really understood the differences in frames between Havanese! The one that fit best for back yard potty trips (fastest to get on and off) was a Puppia brand harness, but not the style most people had used. It was the style recommended for long dog breeds, that sits up on the chest more. But that was where his measurements fit the closest. When he was a bit older his measurements fit a different style better. I have found that measurements directly from the manufacturers are a good place to start, but they are often ridiculously wrong! Especially on Amazon.

I had a couple of Petsafe harnesses and both were good, although DH constantly put one of them on completely upside down and backwards, and I have no idea how Sundance managed to walk that way! I have been using a Gooby (I think that’s the name) lately. It was a brand s few people on the forum liked but I hadn’t heard of, and a few days after it was mentioned on the forum I saw it in a store and was surprised and I impulsively bought it. It has worked well, it’s not very adjustable but it’s a good fit for Sundance, and it sort of feels stretchy, but it’s not really. I don’t like it as much now that his coat is long. I probably need to dig out the Petsafe!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yes, Puppia brand and other vest harnesses are great for baby puppies, but are a problem for Havanese once their coats start to grow, because they cause so much matting.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I must have spent hours reading size charts and recommendations before I really understood the differences in frames between Havanese! The one that fit best for back yard potty trips (fastest to get on and off) was a Puppia brand harness, but not the style most people had used. It was the style recommended for long dog breeds, that sits up on the chest more. But that was where his measurements fit the closest. When he was a bit older his measurements fit a different style better. I have found that measurements directly from the manufacturers are a good place to start, but they are often ridiculously wrong! Especially on Amazon.
> 
> I had a couple of Petsafe harnesses and both were good, although DH constantly put one of them on completely upside down and backwards, and I have no idea how Sundance managed to walk that way! I have been using a Gooby (I think that’s the name) lately. It was a brand s few people on the forum liked but I hadn’t heard of, and a few days after it was mentioned on the forum I saw it in a store and was surprised and I impulsively bought it. It has worked well, it’s not very adjustable but it’s a good fit for Sundance, and it sort of feels stretchy, but it’s not really. I don’t like it as much now that his coat is long. I probably need to dig out the Petsafe!


One advantage of the Blue9 is that the strap on the back is a different color. This helps avoid the scratching of the head issue trying to figure out how to put the harness on! However, as Karen pointed out the PetSafe has other advantages. I have order the PetSafe 3-in-1 and curious to compare it To the Blue9.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I don’t remember about the 3 in 1 but the Easy Walk has different colored straps so it shouldn’t be that hard to put it on in the right direction once everything is adjusted and everyone’s use to it. DH is just funny!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I don’t remember about the 3 in 1 but the Easy Walk has different colored straps so it shouldn’t be that hard to put it on in the right direction once everything is adjusted and everyone’s use to it. DH is just funny!


Well I actually had to scratch my head a few times with the Blue9. I imagine the PetSafe 3-in-1 is the same way. I found the colored strap on the Blue9 helpful although I am sure it is just a matter of getting used to it. The Easy Walk is a different type and actually is one of the shoulder impinging kinds. So confusing!!!!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Yes, Puppia brand and other vest harnesses are great for baby puppies, but are a problem for Havanese once their coats start to grow, because they cause so much matting.


I have also found some of the vest types to be too high around the neck or too tight around the neck area.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> One advantage of the Blue9 is that the strap on the back is a different color. This helps avoid the scratching of the head issue trying to figure out how to put the harness on! However, as Karen pointed out the PetSafe has other advantages. I have order the PetSafe 3-in-1 and curious to compare it To the Blue9.


The 3-in-1 does have little labels for what buckles go where, but I'll admit, they are small, so you have to look carefully. I learned that the best way to know what goes where is to re-buckle the neck one the MOMENT you remove it from the dog. That will orient you the next time you go to put it back on!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> The 3-in-1 does have little tables for what buckles go where, but I'll admit, they are small, so you have to look carefully. I learned that the best way to know what goes where is to re-buckle the neck one the MOMENT you remove it from the dog. That will orient you the next time you go to put it back on!


Great tip!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

mudpuppymama said:


> I have also found some of the vest types to be too high around the neck or too tight around the neck area.


My yorkie reminds me of Count Dracula with one of those high necked versions!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Great tip!


I wish I cold take credit, but I learned it from the person who introduced ME to the brand! LOL!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

krandall said:


> That is why I changed to the Petsafe 3-1 a number of years ago. The reason I like that one more than the Blue9 is that I really like the material they line the Petsafe one with. I found that it is much easier on the Havanese coat, especially the ones in full coat, than the plain nylon webbing ones.


Karen - what size does Pixel wear - from pictures I think she's relatively close to Perry's size (though I could be off on that).


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Same size as Kodi! XS! They are VERY adjustable. She wears it adjusted all the way in, he wears it adjusted all the way out. Panda's is adjusted in the middle! LOL!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> Well I actually had to scratch my head a few times with the Blue9. I imagine the PetSafe 3-in-1 is the same way. I found the colored strap on the Blue9 helpful although I am sure it is just a matter of getting used to it. The Easy Walk is a different type and actually is one of the shoulder impinging kinds. So confusing!!!!


We don’t use it, but it was one of the few strap type harnesses that was small enough, it was probably only the second one I ever bought. But when DH mixed up the straps was not when it was brand new, he’s just a multitasker. Honestly, he does get more done multitasking than I ever would, I cannot multitask, I would be putting on everything backwards and inside out and losing things and forgetting what I was doing. He only does that sometimes. But I really don’t know how Sundance could walk like that!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

This harness is what we've been using for Perry, I love how quick and easy it is to get on - and the fact that the clips go across the buckle so that you've got the added protection if the buckle broke or unclipped for any reason you have the leash hooked to both sides and he's never would have a chance to slip out of it like I've seen dogs do with other harnesses... 



https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B004H61A48/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1



but on long walks it does rub under his "armpits" ... plus it's a little tight when he's not in a super short puppy cut and it sits a little high on his throat (he's got a very boney sternum so it slides over it onto his throat) so I'm looking for a different one. I haven't been too concerned with a different one because while we were in Kampala he rarely wore it - he had free range of the yard so he only really wore a harness for travel and the one he has is super thin and unobtrusive in his bag. During the winter in the US he just wears his fleece so his leash hooks there, but now that we're looking at potentially being here in warm weather and he has to go out on a leash all the time here, I want one that is easy to put on/ off, doesn't rub and isn't too bulky. The concern I have with some of the recommended ones is that even 1/2" is a bit wide for him... and spending $30+ is fine as long as it works well, but a lot to spend hoping it will work well.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> Okay guys I am out of control. I just ordered this harness which appears to fit like it should but we will see. Soft material and made in USA too. Sale going on now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like the look of this one - especially how, in the pictures, the front sits really low on their sternum - from your experience, does it really sit that low or is it higher on their chest? I like the look of the petsafe 3-in-1 too - but it looks like it will sit too high on Perry's throat (given his boney sternum)... some pictures show it lower, some higher so not sure what to think about it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> I like the look of this one - especially how, in the pictures, the front sits really low on their sternum - from your experience, does it really sit that low or is it higher on their chest? I like the look of the petsafe 3-in-1 too - but it looks like it will sit too high on Perry's throat (given his boney sternum)... some pictures show it lower, some higher so not sure what to think about it.


That is a matter of how you adjust it.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Melissa Brill said:


> I like the look of this one - especially how, in the pictures, the front sits really low on their sternum - from your experience, does it really sit that low or is it higher on their chest? I like the look of the petsafe 3-in-1 too - but it looks like it will sit too high on Perry's throat (given his boney sternum)... some pictures show it lower, some higher so not sure what to think about it.


Melissa, I ordered this harness but have not received it yet. I will have to see how it fits!


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## GoWithTheFlo (Oct 11, 2018)

mudpuppymama said:


> Please let us know how it works out for you and what Flo’s size is. This could help others. I think finding harnesses for the really small Havanese could be more difficult. I think both my dogs are built a little odd. My yorkie is very long bodied but slimmer than a Havanese. Mia Is 12 inches tall and it is only 12 1/2 inches from her shoulders to base of tail!!! I guess she is built like a box!


Okay so we tried out the Petsafe 3 in 1 today. Now please take these measurements with a liberal pinch of salt! So front paw to shoulder is 10.5 to 11 inches high, neck to base of tail is 13 to 14 inches, Flo weighs 13lbs. That sounds quite big to me in as much as I always think she looks quite slight for a havanese, but then I suppose I only have online pictures to compare her to rather than any other real life havs. She is certainly much slighter than her friend Ted the Coton de Tulear.

I stupidly took lots of pictures for you all on our walk, only to remember that my phone doesn’t like the forum so that was pretty pointless🙄. Next time I’ll take some before we head out on the iPad. So yes back to the harness - it does look like you need a degree in engineering to work out which bit goes where, but as Karen said they are labelled on the underside. I also found it easier to distinguish by keep telling myself the grey ‘handle‘ strap goes on the top of her spine.

Flo seemed perfectly happy on our walk and I got a lovely shot of her smiling in it. 
Pros are I can see it missing the shoulders and giving a full range of movement, Flo was quite comfortable in it and responsive if she did start pulling whilst on her lead, but then I tend to correct that verbally and with a slight flick of the wrist rather than dragging her back.
Cons are it is tricky to work out which buckle goes where if you undo them all at the same time...don’t!🤣. Also her fur gets in the way whilst fastening the buckles. I’m not 100% sure I had it fastened tight enough on her body as the loop that the lead attaches to could move about half an inch to the right or left if I was stood to that side of her. I was also concerned it might be sitting too high above her sternum but that could be me just worrying as it’s different to her step in harness.

Overall once we get used to it and adjust the straps a little I think we’ll be happy with this harness and it _is _nice to know it gives her a full range of movement so is worth the fuss of getting the straps exactly right.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

GoWithTheFlo said:


> Okay so we tried out the Petsafe 3 in 1 today. Now please take these measurements with a liberal pinch of salt! So front paw to shoulder is 10.5 to 11 inches high, neck to base of tail is 13 to 14 inches, Flo weighs 13lbs. That sounds quite big to me in as much as I always think she looks quite slight for a havanese, but then I suppose I only have online pictures to compare her to rather than any other real life havs. She is certainly much slighter than her friend Ted the Coton de Tulear.
> 
> I stupidly took lots of pictures for you all on our walk, only to remember that my phone doesn’t like the forum so that was pretty pointless🙄. Next time I’ll take some before we head out on the iPad. So yes back to the harness - it does look like you need a degree in engineering to work out which bit goes where, but as Karen said they are labelled on the underside. I also found it easier to distinguish by keep telling myself the grey ‘handle‘ strap goes on the top of her spine.
> 
> ...


What an awesome detailed explanation! Thanks so much!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

GoWithTheFlo said:


> Overall once we get used to it and adjust the straps a little I think we’ll be happy with this harness and it _is _nice to know it gives her a full range of movement so is worth the fuss of getting the straps exactly right.


I think that once you get used to it, it will become less confusing. The first time I took it off, it felt like I had a handful of spaghetti! I found that the best way to keep myself oriented was to undo the belly strap first, and leave that undone. Then undo the neck buckle, and WITHOUT TAKING YOUR HANDS OFF, rebuckle it before you put it down. Then you KNOW which is the part that goes around her neck the next time!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

GoWithTheFlo said:


> Okay so we tried out the Petsafe 3 in 1 today. Now please take these measurements with a liberal pinch of salt! So front paw to shoulder is 10.5 to 11 inches high, neck to base of tail is 13 to 14 inches, Flo weighs 13lbs. That sounds quite big to me in as much as I always think she looks quite slight for a havanese, but then I suppose I only have online pictures to compare her to rather than any other real life havs. She is certainly much slighter than her friend Ted the Coton de Tulear.
> 
> I stupidly took lots of pictures for you all on our walk, only to remember that my phone doesn’t like the forum so that was pretty pointless🙄. Next time I’ll take some before we head out on the iPad. So yes back to the harness - it does look like you need a degree in engineering to work out which bit goes where, but as Karen said they are labelled on the underside. I also found it easier to distinguish by keep telling myself the grey ‘handle‘ strap goes on the top of her spine.
> 
> ...


Can’t wait to see the pictures! Maybe you could send the pictures from your phone pictures to your ipad if it’s easier to post from it? You know, as a purely an educational request regarding the harness, with the added bonus of cute pictures of Flo


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## GoWithTheFlo (Oct 11, 2018)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Can’t wait to see the pictures! Maybe you could send the pictures from your phone pictures to your ipad if it’s easier to post from it? You know, as a purely an educational request regarding the harness, with the added bonus of cute pictures of Flo


So I emailed them to myself and then took screenshots. They’re not _really _cute pictures as I was trying to take pics of the harness rather than Flo if that makes sense...🤔

Smiling Flo








Good harness shots















General shot















Poor attempt at getting a front shot but too blurry







PS I cut her hair myself...so be nice🤣😘


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

GoWithTheFlo said:


> So I emailed them to myself and then took screenshots. They’re not _really _cute pictures as I was trying to take pics of the harness rather than Flo if that makes sense...🤔
> 
> Smiling Flo
> View attachment 173958
> ...


She looks adorable!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

GoWithTheFlo said:


> So I emailed them to myself and then took screenshots. They’re not _really _cute pictures as I was trying to take pics of the harness rather than Flo if that makes sense...🤔
> 
> Smiling Flo
> View attachment 173958
> ...


Great pics! Flo is a beauty! Kudos for cutting her hair yourself too!


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## Mando's Mommy (Dec 8, 2020)

Flo is super cute!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

They are cute pictures, I knew they would be! The purple harness is pretty striking on her coat, too. You’d think it was a designer harness!

Also, I don’t get out much. Are all of your sidewalks bricks like that? It seems very pretty compared to the sidewalk in front of my house. When our neighborhood was build they did wide streets with pretty stamped concrete and brick circles for trees between the two lanes, it looked similar to the stone in one of your pictures. People freaked out about it so they ripped them out and filled them with concrete that doesn’t match.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Mudpuppymama, when you get both, will you compare the thickness of the straps? I have noticed that since Sundance is right on the lower end of the size categories on a lot of harnesses, the straps are very wide for his size. The smaller size usually has thinner straps that feel more appropriate for his size. What sizes did you end up getting? I might try for smaller and hope it adjusts up enough.

I mentioned I didn’t know what happened to the Petsafe harness and DH said also looked for it to use for their evening walks and couldn’t find it. So I think I will try whichever of these harnesses has the thinnest straps.


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## GoWithTheFlo (Oct 11, 2018)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> They are cute pictures, I knew they would be! The purple harness is pretty striking on her coat, too. You’d think it was a designer harness!
> 
> Also, I don’t get out much. Are all of your sidewalks bricks like that? It seems very pretty compared to the sidewalk in front of my house. When our neighborhood was build they did wide streets with pretty stamped concrete and brick circles for trees between the two lanes, it looked similar to the stone in one of your pictures. People freaked out about it so they ripped them out and filled them with concrete that doesn’t match.


Ah thank you😘

So the smaller pinkish bricks were taken in our driveway. The larger grey and brighter bright slabs are our local pavements (sidewalks). Hope it’s ok to write in British English rather than American English? I did toy with idea of using American English on here as it’s an American forum but it just felt like I was taking the mickey and faking an American accent🤣🤣🤣. Do let me know if I ever use anything completely bizarre and I will happily translate😘.

I know your question was to Mudpuppymama but I have just checked the width of the straps and they are about about two thirds of an inch across. Also I should have mentioned in the original message that we have the XS size. xx


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Mudpuppymama, when you get both, will you compare the thickness of the straps? I have noticed that since Sundance is right on the lower end of the size categories on a lot of harnesses, the straps are very wide for his size. The smaller size usually has thinner straps that feel more appropriate for his size. What sizes did you end up getting? I might try for smaller and hope it adjusts up enough.
> 
> I mentioned I didn’t know what happened to the Petsafe harness and DH said also looked for it to use for their evening walks and couldn’t find it. So I think I will try whichever of these harnesses has the thinnest straps.


Eva, I received the PetSafe but have not had a chance to try it out or compare it to the Blue9. I see Flo has answered your question on strap size. I also ordered the harness with the soft hemp cotton material to try. I will report back on that one also.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

mudpuppymama said:


> Eva, I received the PetSafe but have not had a chance to try it out or compare it to the Blue9. I see Flo has answered your question on strap size. I also ordered the harness with the soft hemp cotton material to try. I will report back on that one also.


Note I did check width of Blue9 straps...same as PetSafe.


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## Mando's Mommy (Dec 8, 2020)

What leashes are you using with the harnesses? I need to get one for Mando. I’ve read that it’s probably better to start with a lightweight nylon leash but does anyone have any specific recommendations for brand, length, width? I’ve seen some beautiful leather leashes but read they’re a bit heavy for a puppy and/or small dog and some dogs like to chew their leashes/harness so I’m holding off on the nice fancy leash for now.


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## GoWithTheFlo (Oct 11, 2018)

I like to use these rolled leather leashes and collars from a company based in England called Dogs and Horses. They are a bit pricey, and they don’t have the more secure screw clasp I have seen mentioned here, but I really like the quality and colours. We have the blush colour in the earlier harness photos for Spring/Summer and the the mulberry colour below for Autumn/Winter. I really like the brass ring around the lead handle so I can wear it cross body when I let Flo run off leash in the park.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

GoWithTheFlo said:


> I like to use these rolled leather leashes and collars from a company based in England called Dogs and Horses. They are a bit pricey, and they don’t have the more secure screw clasp I have seen mentioned here, but I really like the quality and colours. We have the blush colour in the earlier harness photos for Spring/Summer and the the mulberry colour below for Autumn/Winter. I really like the brass ring around the lead handle so I can wear it cross body when I let Flo run off leash in the park.
> View attachment 173969
> View attachment 173967
> View attachment 173968


That's gorgeous! You can tell the quality of the leather, even in the photo!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Mando's Mommy said:


> What leashes are you using with the harnesses? I need to get one for Mando. I’ve read that it’s probably better to start with a lightweight nylon leash but does anyone have any specific recommendations for brand, length, width? I’ve seen some beautiful leather leashes but read they’re a bit heavy for a puppy and/or small dog and some dogs like to chew their leashes/harness so I’m holding off on the nice fancy leash for now.


For baby puppies, I suggest going to Pet Supplies Plus, or Petco, if you don't have a Pet Supplies Plus near you. (PSP has a bigger selection) Both have very lightweight, thin, 6' nylon leashes for toy breed puppies that are almost ribbon-like. The catch isn't super strong, but you won't be letting your puppy pull on it anyway! And they are so cheap (If I remember, they re around $6) you can just keep a close eye on the catch and replace if it shows signs of wear.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Although I prefer the trigger snap leashes because I feel they are more secure, they are too heavy for a puppy. As Karen said, be sure to check the bolt clips often and you will likely be fine. After your dog is bigger, you could graduate to trigger snaps!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Although I prefer the trigger snap leashes because I feel they are more secure, they are too heavy for a puppy. As Karen said, be sure to check the bolt clips often and you will likely be fine. After your dog is bigger, you could graduate to trigger snaps!


The clips on the very thin nylon puppy leashes I buy are more like a teeny tiny carabiner. But they are plastic. Fine for a kitten or tiny puppy, but definitely not for regular use on a larger dog.


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## stephsu (Apr 27, 2020)

Our 3 in 1 Harness came today! Otto is wearing it now, sulking in his crate as he doesn't like to wear a harness in the house but I want to make sure I get the fit right. It seems to be the right size (XS) and I'm glad that he is in something that is good for Havanese specifically. Thanks for the advice here!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

I received my PetSafe 3 in 1 harness and it works very well for Mia. I also have the Blue9 Buckle Neck harness which is basically the same design except for a few differences. I thought I would share these differences in case anyone is interested.

- The Blue9 top strap is adjustable whereas the PetSafe 3 in 1 is not.

- The Blue9 top strap is almost an inch longer than the PetSafe 3 in 1.

- The Blue9 neck is almost an inch shorter than the PetSafe 3 in 1!!! This could be a limiting factor!

- The Blue9 is not padded, however, the material is silky soft vs. the PetSafe 3 in 1. However, the PetSafe 3 in 1 does have padding to make up for this.

- The Blue9 appears to be of better quality, however it is made in USA and more expensive so this is to be expected.

Conclusions for my dogs neither of which is a standard Havanese body type:

- The Blue9 harness does not work for Mia because the neck is too small!!!! The PetSafe is better for her.

- The Blue9 works better for my yorkie because he is longer bodied and needs the extra length of the top strap to keep the girth strap far enough behind his back legs.

- Ideally, the Blue9 would have a bigger neck and the PetSafe would have a longer and adjustable top strap.

Anyway, the PetSafe 3 in 1 works better for Mia and the Blue9 works better for the yorkie. And mom is happy because neither of these harnesses needs to go into the “discard pile”!!!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Here is a photo of the Blue9 (red) and PetSafe 3 in 1 (blue) shown side by side.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Here is a photo of the Blue9 (red) and PetSafe 3 in 1 (blue) shown side by side.
> View attachment 174010


Good review! I wonder if the Blue 9 would give enough space on the body that it would fit BEHIND Kodi's lipoma... Hmmm. There may be a new harness in our lives too! LOL! What size did you get? And how adjustable are they? Kodi where's the 3-in-one adjusted all the way out.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Good review! I wonder if the Blue 9 would give enough space on the body that it would fit BEHIND Kodi's lipoma... Hmmm. There may be a new harness in our lives too! LOL! What size did you get? And how adjustable are they? Kodi where's the 3-in-one adjusted all the way out.


Here is the size chart. I have the XS but I see there is some overlap with the Small. They do not give the neck size which I think is not good. It is very adjustable. I wonder if you would have more wiggle room with the small but will Kodi be swimming in it? Maybe they could answer this.

https://5188360.app.netsuite.com/co...737.95730756.1616617920-1435428374.1615828923


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Here is the size chart. I have the XS but I see there is some overlap with the Small. They do not give the neck size which I think is not good. It is very adjustable. I wonder if you would have more wiggle room with the small but will Kodi be swimming in it? Maybe they could answer this.
> 
> https://5188360.app.netsuite.com/co...737.95730756.1616617920-1435428374.1615828923
> View attachment 174012
> View attachment 174012


Thanks! I'll print this out and look at it at home. Right now I'm at my friend Elinor's house, waiting for HER litter of puppies to be born!!! 💗


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

yeah, yeah... The Blue9 & PetSafe 3-in-1 look as if they are the best, safest, etc. etc. I will probably end up with one of those if Fezzik ever gets big enough to fit in them. However.... They have no pizzazz. boring.

I really really wish that I didn't see Pumpkin's 'Pretty Paws' harness. Now I NEED the James Bond one with the bowtie. I may get it as Fezzik's car harness. I have no will power. "Bowties are cool," claims the 11th Dr. Who. "Fezzes are cool" also.









James BOND


JAMES BOND The James Bond harness is named after the popular action movie icon, James Bond, who made the classic tuxedo look effortless and handsomely dapper. The tuxedo originated in the U.S. around 1888 and was named after Tuxedo Park, a Hudson Valley enclave for New York’s social elite. The...




prettypaw.ca


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

mudpuppymama said:


> Okay guys I am out of control. I just ordered this harness which appears to fit like it should but we will see. Soft material and made in USA too. Sale going on now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I finally received the harness from the Good Dog Company so reporting back. I really wanted to like this harness but there is really only one way to describe it - TERRIBLE!!!!!

I cannot find one thing about this harness that is even tolerable! I love made in USA and organic materials, however the material is actually a huge disappointment as well. It is like corduroy and although it is soft it has a texture to it that I fear will rub and cause mats.

In addition:

- Back strap way too short. I hate harnesses like this. It causes the girth strap to ride too close to the back of the arms. I also think it can put pressure on the shoulders and causes strain when the dog lowers its head.

- Has to go over the head to get it on. I can tolerate this IF the harness has other redeeming qualities but this one has zero redeeming qualities.

- Have to lift the leg to get it on. I do not like this but I have used one like this before and can tolerate it. However, since the back strap is so short the leg has to be lifted awkwardly so I hate it.

This is going into the harness discard pile!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

morriscsps said:


> yeah, yeah... The Blue9 & PetSafe 3-in-1 look as if they are the best, safest, etc. etc. I will probably end up with one of those if Fezzik ever gets big enough to fit in them. However.... They have no pizzazz. boring.
> 
> I really really wish that I didn't see Pumpkin's 'Pretty Paws' harness. Now I NEED the James Bond one with the bowtie. I may get it as Fezzik's car harness. I have no will power. "Bowties are cool," claims the 11th Dr. Who. "Fezzes are cool" also.
> 
> ...


I am not into designer harnesses but I can definitely relate to wanting something with a little pizazz. I actually bought the harness below for my yorkie and I have to say it is awesome. It is so soft and cushy and fits him perfectly. The only negative is that you have to pull it over the head. I am not sure if this is a good harness for a Havanese or not. The material is very slick though so it may not cause mats. Mia has lots of fur on her head and neck now so I prefer not pulling it over the head. I believe this harness allows proper shoulder movement and protects the trachea. Anyway, I am impressed with this harness and wanted to let people know. For a smaller type Havanese in a puppy cut this may work very well.









Harness


Soft, stretchy, and resilient. The most comfortable cushioned, lightweight, adjustable dog harness that’s simple to secure and easy to link up with. With both front and back leash attachment points, this is the best harness for dogs with style.




wildone.com


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> I finally received the harness from the Good Dog Company so reporting back. I really wanted to like this harness but there is really only one way to describe it - TERRIBLE!!!!!
> 
> I cannot find one thing about this harness that is even tolerable! I love made in USA and organic materials, however the material is actually a huge disappointment as well. It is like corduroy and although it is soft it has a texture to it that I fear will rub and cause mats.
> 
> ...


Can’t you send it back?


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

krandall said:


> Can’t you send it back?


I should be able to. The discard pile is big enough! Some of them I had to try first but this one was super easy to reject right off the bat!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> I finally received the harness from the Good Dog Company so reporting back. I really wanted to like this harness but there is really only one way to describe it - TERRIBLE!!!!!
> 
> I cannot find one thing about this harness that is even tolerable! I love made in USA and organic materials, however the material is actually a huge disappointment as well. It is like corduroy and although it is soft it has a texture to it that I fear will rub and cause mats.
> 
> ...


No return policy??


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> No return policy??


I have not checked yet but assume there is. Most companies are very good about this.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

mudpuppymama said:


> I am not into designer harnesses but I can definitely relate to wanting something with a little pizazz. I actually bought the harness below for my yorkie and I have to say it is awesome. It is so soft and cushy and fits him perfectly. The only negative is that you have to pull it over the head. I am not sure if this is a good harness for a Havanese or not. The material is very slick though so it may not cause mats. Mia has lots of fur on her head and neck now so I prefer not pulling it over the head. I believe this harness allows proper shoulder movement and protects the trachea. Anyway, I am impressed with this harness and wanted to let people know. For a smaller type Havanese in a puppy cut this may work very well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I came across these at one point and really wanted to touch the leash! It looks sort of like silicone but they call it “poly” so I want to know if it feels like plastic or not, lol. The look of the harness reminds me of neoprene. Good to know it is soft! Sundance is probably too long for this right now but I really like the green one so maybe I’ll get it the next time we cut him short.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I came across these at one point and really wanted to touch the leash! It looks sort of like silicone but they call it “poly” so I want to know if it feels like plastic or not, lol. The look of the harness reminds me of neoprene. Good to know it is soft! Sundance is probably too long for this right now but I really like the green one so maybe I’ll get it the next time we cut him short.


It is definitely super soft and very well padded. My yorkie is loving it. Although the Blue9 works great for him too. I like to rotate them and have a backup.


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