# Biting



## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm doing something wrong here! Please help me!! 

She is also very good at finding things she's not suppose to have, socks, panties, dryer sheets, kleenex, etc. I have tried teaching her the "release" command by holding a treat in front of her nose and saying "release" but I don't always carry treats around with me. (Bad mom?) I have tried holding her collar underneath her jaw with one hand and bringing the other up over her nose and wrapping my hand around her nose pressing her lips against her teeth to open her jaws. Rarely works without a snarl and an attemt to bite. I've tried prying her jaws apart going in from the front, one hand on the top and one on the bottom. (I didn't now these dogs were part pit bull. How can a small dog have such a strong jaw?) We have played the "release" and "take it" game with a toy or something she can have. I take it and give it back to her. However tonight was scary. 

Tonight she was sitting on the couch with me while watching TV and she had dug herself between the cushions. Upon my reacing under her tummy to lift her out onto mylap, I felt her stiffen and when she was visible she had a large wad of paper towels in her mouth. She was not going to let go for anything. You could just feel it in her body. My husband came over to help and we tried the methods above (except the treat one). She started snarling and moving her body in a nasty hateful way. She bit him and as she did, he was able to get the paper towel out of her mouth. I'm emmbarassed to say it had a pop tart my daughter had left on the couch this morning and it'd fallen down in the cracks. 

Immediately after she bit him she found her self on her side, on the couch, with both of us (husband and me) with our hands around her head/shoulders (oh, alright...around her neck but we weren't squeezing). We held her like that until she was very quiet, probably about 30 seconds. 

I don't know what to do! I first blamed it on the fact that she was a small dog (treat size) instead of a real dog (labrador). Then I blamed it on the fact that she was a female instead of a male (always have had males before). Now she's laying under my feet and she's so sweet. 

We love this dog to death, but we really need to know what to do. In addition to the problems we're having taking things away from her, she is very nippy when playing, which is most of the time for her. 

My dream of getting this small adorable dog was to use her for therapy. I don't know that that's even in the picture any more. She's 4.5 months old and I don't know if there's time to fix me/us/her. Is there? 

Can anyone help or offer any other suggestions? Is it time to consult with a professional behaviorist?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It sounds to me like she is acting like an absolutely normal puppy who doesn't want to give up her "contraband". 

Holding her down after the fact is a really bad idea. All it will do is damage your relationship with her. You need to keep working with her on "trading" when she's not worked up and "guarding" something. It will take a LOT longer. At 4 1/2 months, she's still a little baby! She needs to learn better bite inhibition, but in fairness, her goal here was NOT to bite anyone, it was to keep hold of something she treasured that you "big mean people"  were trying to take away from her. My guess is that she was trying to clamp down harder on her prize, and that DH's fingers simply got in the way.

In the mean time, it is the responsibility of EVERYONE in the house to make sure that things that could hurt her aren't left where she can get at them. I know it's tough, but just as with a toddler, it's part of what you have to do with a puppy in the house. 

I know very few puppies of any breed who would willingly have given up a Pop Tart! The difference between her and a Lab puppy is that the Lab puppy would have swallowed the whole thing before you noticed it!:biggrin1:

A behavior consultant might be in order to help you learn how to handle her more appropriately, and how to structure the environment so that she isn't getting into things as often. But I DON'T think she's a puppy with a "behavior problem"... she's just a puppy!

And, incidentally, I DO know what this is like. Kodi was AWFUL about eating things he shouldn't when he was younger, and there were a number of times that, for safety's sake, I HAD to pry his mouth open and remove the object. I always found that if I stayed calm and did it by myself, it worked MUCH better than if everyone got all excited, and someone tried to "help" hold him down. 

I don't think it would have worked with a Pop Tart, but one trick I found useful was to simply out-waithim, if the item was big enough that I could get hold of even a corner of it outside his mouth. He would screech and growl and carry on, but I would just talk calmly to him, telling him if he let go, he'd get a cookie. I made SURE I didn't pull, so there was no tug of war involved. Eventually, he'd get tired of the whole thing, decided that the cookie was really a better option, and let go.

Oh, and yes, I almost ALWAYS have cookies in my pocket, even now, because I'm always training new behaviors. With a 4 1/2 moth old puppy, you really don't HAVE anything but "new behaviors"... she's just too young. So yes, you should have cookies in your pocket all the time. They can be something hard and small that's not messy... I use wither Buddy Biscuits or Charlee Bears.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

I'm sure others will chime in with advice on the biting/not letting go (I have no advice to offer there) but I do know that for many months after I got Ceylon, I just had to take care not to ever leave anything within his reach that I minding him chewing on since he would chew on any and everything! Also, I made sure he always had a variety of toys and chewies of his to chew on at any time. He eventually figured out that those were 'his' and that I would never try to take them away, but I would take anything I left out by mistake if he started chewing on it (trading him for a chew toy or treat). Now, if he's left a favorite chew toy in one room he will often run back to grab it when following me to the next room. Keeps his teeth and mind occupied. (He will still chew on new things I leave out by mistake, especially plastic things, if I leave him alone with them out... it's a process...)

Sounds like your little girl needs more help than that but she is just a puppy and can be trained I am sure... somebody will chime in with better suggestions for your situation I am sure


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

She is still a puppy and will be for awhile!!!!!!!! You will I'm sure get lots of advise but .... I wear a treat pouch all the time, it seems to be part of my clothing. That way you always have a good trade! Atticus was not good about giving things up either. You need to work on trading lots!!! Not just when they have something you want. We trade ALL the time! He now brings me things hoping I will trade. Last thing was my checkbook he had stolen from my purse! Obviously FOOD will be pretty hard for him to give up. This puppy phase is not easy nor is it short. Atticus is 7 months he is good but NOT an Angel!!! You really need to train all the time, although really obnoxious in our human minds what puppies do is pretty normal behavior for them. Hang in there I'm sure a therapy dog can be in your future. I agree the biting is a concern,hope you get good advise!


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

Well, you guys have managed to make me laugh. Karen, you were so right-on about the lab swallowing the Pop Tart before even seeing it. 

About treats: I have tried to avoid wheat flour, meal and/or by-products, and I've tried to always make sure the treats are made in the USA. That seems to restrict us and is an issue I've been trying to figure out. One night at class we ran out of her Blue Buffalo Chicken things (heart shaped) and the instructor had Charlie Browns. We tried a few and found they took a lot of time for her to eat. She also had real loose stools for a day afterwards. I don't know if that's because she hadn't had wheat before or if she something else was amiss. What do you think? 

Do you use different treats for training as you do for around the house. I know it's all training, but we've only used the moist real chicken treats and they're yucky in my pockets. (p.s. I'm a vegetarian so its quite a sacrifice that I even hold the treats in my hands.) 

Thanks again for the laughter. This website is a blessing!


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

I have a great treat bag Premier treat bag Terry Ryan, It is the best ever! It lies flat and is really easy to access. it has a hinge and snaps shut. My last dog was such a food hound he chewed out all my pockets coats and pants! Good keep laughing a sense of humor is a MUST!!! good things these guys are so darned cute! love your pups photo!!!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

wow, yes holding her down like you described is really not going to 'help' in any way other than to make her fear you which could increase the unwanted behavior... always, always have something to "trade" with her!! I have also found that 'letting' her have certain items to shred has really reduced any unwanted shredding. It has kind of made shredding lose some of it's appeal, because she IS allowed to do it. Now that she is 17 months old, she knows when she hears a new roll of tp being unwrapped she always gets the paper wrapper (from costco) AND often times she'll get the cardboard roll too! And at Christmas time I give her the BIG cardboard roll! LOL she LOVES it!
I know training a puppy seems so hard at times, but really, try to see things from thier perspective!
Also, try really, really hard not to 'go in' after things UNLESS it is something very dangerous. Offer a trade, even if you have to take 15 seconds to run into the kitchen and get some cheese or something HIGH value! Just keep on with the 'drop it' or release command, she will WILL get it eventually! Just keep loving her and try really hard not to be 'dominant' over her, it will only make things worse!


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## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

It's so hard to not to freak out over biting -- you're afraid your dog is going to be on the nightly news after attacking a child.  But, it is perfectly normal. It's how they protect their "stuff." The "drop it" command is wonderful -- but I've had days when I wouldn't drop a pop tart on command. 

She won't be a puppy forever; she'll figure it out. The important thing is to keep rewarding her for trading and dropping.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Diann said:


> Well, you guys have managed to make me laugh. Karen, you were so right-on about the lab swallowing the Pop Tart before even seeing it.
> 
> About treats: I have tried to avoid wheat flour, meal and/or by-products, and I've tried to always make sure the treats are made in the USA. That seems to restrict us and is an issue I've been trying to figure out. One night at class we ran out of her Blue Buffalo Chicken things (heart shaped) and the instructor had Charlie Browns. We tried a few and found they took a lot of time for her to eat. She also had real loose stools for a day afterwards. I don't know if that's because she hadn't had wheat before or if she something else was amiss. What do you think?
> 
> ...


Are you avoiding wheat because you KNOW she has a problem with it, or "just because"? While you don't want to feed a staple diet that is mostly grains, wheat is no better or worse than any other grain AS LONG AS your particular dog doesn't have a sensitivity to it. If it was only that one time, I'd ask your trainer for a few Charlee Bears to try again, and see if the loose stools were a coincidence or if it really was a wheat intolerance. If you are using the Charlee Bears as "trades", it doesn't matter whether it takes her a bit to chew it up. That might be a good thing! If you want something smaller, try the Buddy Biscuits. They break into tiny pieces easily. (although it occurs to me that if she had never eaten them before, she might have been slow about it just because the taste and texture were unfamiliar)

If she really is wheat intolerant, you may be able to find a rice-based biscuit type treat... i haven't looked. If not, you can certainly make your own using rice flour. I make cheese, peanutbutter and chicken liver treats for Kodi., and always use rice flour when I bake for him He loves all the flavors.

Whether you're a vegetarian or not, dogs aren't, so you're gonna have to get over it.. You can use a bait bag for soft treats, as Jodi mentioned, but when I'm not doing "serious" training, I find that the biscuit type treats in my pocket are fine. They are typically being used for a low value reward purpose anyway.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> wow, yes holding her down like you described is really not going to 'help' in any way other than to make her fear you which could increase the unwanted behavior... always, always have something to "trade" with her!! I have also found that 'letting' her have certain items to shred has really reduced any unwanted shredding. It has kind of made shredding lose some of it's appeal, because she IS allowed to do it. Now that she is 17 months old, she knows when she hears a new roll of tp being unwrapped she always gets the paper wrapper (from costco) AND often times she'll get the cardboard roll too! And at Christmas time I give her the BIG cardboard roll! LOL she LOVES it!
> I know training a puppy seems so hard at times, but really, try to see things from thier perspective!
> Also, try really, really hard not to 'go in' after things UNLESS it is something very dangerous. Offer a trade, even if you have to take 15 seconds to run into the kitchen and get some cheese or something HIGH value! Just keep on with the 'drop it' or release command, she will WILL get it eventually! Just keep loving her and try really hard not to be 'dominant' over her, it will only make things worse!


That's a great idea, Tammy, about giving them some things that it's OK to shred. Unfortunately, Kodi doesn't just shred paper, he eats it. And after one $1600 vet bill for an impaction, he doesn't get to shred ANYTHING:biggrin1:


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