# support group wanted!



## Suzi

I cant take it any more! I am one step away from saying no more! I spent 6 hrs today grooming:frusty: Both Zoey and I have had it! I would comb her and turn her over then the same mats would come back right where I had just combed:frusty: I have been having problems for over two weeks! I need a brake! I think it must be even worse for her!. Any one else out their in my same boat do you want to join me and cry with me Misery loves company:brick:


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## Sheila

hi,my thoughts and ideas?as they get older i heard they get less matting,not sure on that yet?but i do know that when they lose there puppy coat they tend to mat more?so they need lots of brushing at that time.?i have tried using dry corn starch rubbed into ,on a dry mat and then pick apart mat with tip of a comb,after fluff out cornstarch.mink oil you can also use as a dematter or wash your pup with.or put some of your dog conditoner with some water in a spray bottle and spray(use on mats)between bathing your fur kid.and ofcourse the right brushes? my fav.is the slicker brush.


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## Jplatthy

I agree with you Suzi..it is HORRIBLE! One of mine has gone through it...and it was the same thing....she hadn't moved from the table and had already matted......ugh.........


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## Thumper

Blowing coat is no fun, but just do it parts, do 1/2 and then give you and her a break before you do the other 1/2

Kara


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## Luciledodd

Suzi, you might try rubbing corn starch all through her coat. Then I tried mink oil spray back in the summer when Rosie was going through a second coat-blow. I had started to use the corn starch, then like magic there were no more matts. One thing I believe in though, I use the little face comb to go through her hair after I get through brushing and combing. The little comb gets out all those tiny knots that are left in. I found that if I eliminate the knots, then the matts are better.


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## TilliesMom

awwwww (HUGS) I've been there, done that and had Tillie shaved down! LOL

Try to keep her as CLEAN as possible, bath her every 5-7 days and comb her out fully every single day at least once, but twice a day would be best during this time!!
If you want to keep her in full coat, just be patient... use the ideas everyone else suggested and remember that this WILL pass... eventually!


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## The Laughing Magpie

Lucile, You have it right on the best thing to use is corn starch and you can dust the entire coat a face comb or flea comb works wonders, also commitment and patience makes one a head of the game.

Suzy, Blowing coat is the time when you have to keep on it so it doesn't become overwhelming. Try to make it easy on yourself by doing bits like maybe when you watch tv or after you come home from a walk, just take 5 mins several times a day to try to keep up with the matting, hopefully when you do your weekly grooming it will be less stressful. My Yogi has big hair and blew coat three times, now he seldom gets matts, I do have to make for sure I keep his undercoat combed out as this will cause matts and if you see your dog itching or chewing you should comb that area right away with a face comb, it is amazing how much matting is caused by nails and teeth. My girl Misty has very silky hair her coat is not as impressive as Yogi's but is very easy to maintain she has only had a small matt on the foot area. 

The bigger coats are more time consuming but so impressive and beautiful at the end of the day. Hang in there.


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## clare

Try the corn starch like Lucille says,I find it very helpful,also the coat blowing can stop as suddenly as it starts.Another thing you could try is taking Zoe to the groomers once just for a wash and brush up,just to give you a break.Good luck, stick in there!!


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## DonnaC

What I hate is how Baxter looks all chunky in places where the mats have come off with the comb or brush. His entire hind quarters look shorn. I try to be gentle and comb through them, but about half the time, I'll be teasing away and then -- whoops, the mat is in my comb! Also, he's starting to look suspiciously at me whenever I approach him.


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## Cindi

I'll join this support group, too. The worst time I ever had with matting was when I kenneled Mojo for a few days and arranged for a (very specific) "comb-out/bath/comb-out" the day we were picking him up. A groomer's assistant missed the first comb-out and gave a matted Mojo a bath. He pretty much felted. It took me three days with several 4-5 hour sessions (and untold amounts of cornstarch) to get him to where I could run even a C.C. comb through him. Sharing your frustration (good thing they're worth it!)


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## Suzi

DonnaC said:


> What I hate is how Baxter looks all chunky in places where the mats have come off with the comb or brush. His entire hind quarters look shorn. I try to be gentle and comb through them, but about half the time, I'll be teasing away and then -- whoops, the mat is in my comb! Also, he's starting to look suspiciously at me whenever I approach him.


 You should see the pile of hair I collect from Maddie and Zoey! Those mats come out all the time and all the loose fuz. I cant believe how shinny they look all wet like no hair then WOW Zoey looks like a Ball Its uncontrollable fuzz ball. Maddies coat is half the length so it is not as hard.
You should see them when I get the grooming supplies out they both run under the bed. For awhile I could trick them with a treat but not any more. I have to crawl under the bed and the scoot father away .ound: (not funny)
Why so many baths? I was wondering if there natural oils might be getting striped out ? Can you corn starch and oil then not bath? What is a face comb? I wish I was more disciplined to comb twice a day that would probably salve the problem .
I also think the way they play hard together is causing more mats.


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## Suzi

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Lucile, You have it right on the best thing to use is corn starch and you can dust the entire coat a face comb or flea comb works wonders, also commitment and patience makes one a head of the game.
> 
> Suzy, Blowing coat is the time when you have to keep on it so it doesn't become overwhelming. Try to make it easy on yourself by doing bits like maybe when you watch tv or after you come home from a walk, just take 5 mins several times a day to try to keep up with the matting, hopefully when you do your weekly grooming it will be less stressful. My Yogi has big hair and blew coat three times, now he seldom gets matts, I do have to make for sure I keep his undercoat combed out as this will cause matts and if you see your dog itching or chewing you should comb that area right away with a face comb, it is amazing how much matting is caused by nails and teeth. My girl Misty has very silky hair her coat is not as impressive as Yogi's but is very easy to maintain she has only had a small matt on the foot area.
> 
> The bigger coats are more time consuming but so impressive and beautiful at the end of the day. Hang in there.


 Is the under coat what is causing the almost THICK FELT! like clumps? Or is it adult coat coming in and tangling with the puppy coat? I do have a small comb not as small as a flee comb but find it easier to hold and concentrate on one part at a time. I think Zoey may be getting a coat like a bichon Frise its getting wavier. Its not so bad if she just drys like that. Its combing it all out she turns into a puff ball and frizzy Then I tried a bunch of products and I think I had a huge build up of products so I striped it out with Apple cider vinegar her coat was really nice after that. For A Day
Look up Apple Cider Vinegar as a detangler I didn't fallow the recipe to the tee. I used 2cups warm water to 1/4 ACV her hair got really conditioned.


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## Suzi

Cindi said:


> I'll join this support group, too. The worst time I ever had with matting was when I kenneled Mojo for a few days and arranged for a (very specific) "comb-out/bath/comb-out" the day we were picking him up. A groomer's assistant missed the first comb-out and gave a matted Mojo a bath. He pretty much felted. It took me three days with several 4-5 hour sessions (and untold amounts of cornstarch) to get him to where I could run even a C.C. comb through him. Sharing your frustration (good thing they're worth it!)


 Yes that is exactly what I'm going threw about 3 times a week! The Felting its weird. Hope you have it under controll


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## The Laughing Magpie

Suzy, If you are using a good coconut based dog shampoo, you are in no danger of stripping the natural oils. Please do not use cornstarch and oil together, that will be a mess and more work. Be very careful when using oil on your Hav oil can cause matts if used improperly. Please do not leave oil on for long amounts of time as you can clog the skin. You can leave the cornstarch on after brushing it will work its way out it will not ruin your carpets or walls.

Suzy, you might try using a leave on condictioner while the blowing coat period is going on. Please try backing up and giving more treats to your pups when grooming, shorter sessions, more frequent treating just for a time, also try sometimes not doing it on the grooming table. I am the most lazy person about setting up the table (it's not as important as I am not showing) my dogs line up for grooming and whine outside the door when its not their turn. If I comb out Boo Boo or Yogi while watching TV they fall asleep. The reason I am telling you this is I know you really want to do well when showing, you need to set your dog up as well as yourself for success, you do not need her to get over stressed with grooming before a show, you want your dog to be calm, happy and confident. Hang in there I know you can do it.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Yes the undercoat is that very light weight fluzzy fluff and when this falls out it can get stuck in the longer hair or top coat then you have the starting of a matt, during blowing coat so much is falling or blowing it is hard to keep ahead. The light undercoat is what makes our Havs hair stand off the skin making them look puffy and keeping them cool. 

As time goes on you will develop a technique or grooming style, grooming should never hurt the dog if your dog can remain calm it helps you achive this, as sometime you will need to take your time, kinda like when you have a delicate gold chain that becomes knotted.


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## HavaneseSoon

Count me in! I just reread my notes on Jack and it appears there was matting and tangled for 9 months! And... I talked about clipping him down in August several times. Jack still has his length on hair but belly is shaved. I really do think the hair comes in ..in stages so therefore it seems like they are blowing coat forever....

Keep hangiing in there! I have given myself permissoon to clip Jack in the Spring if the knots from h..e... double l....continue. If I can make it through the Winter then I can do anything!


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## Luciledodd

Suzi from the "butt pictures" I noticed that Zoey's hair seems much lighter than Rosie's hair. It look like spun silk. I would sure hate to cut it off. The other little girl though, just go on and have her put in a puppy cut. That should relieve you of some of the stress. This was taken of Rosie last week after her bath. I just combed through and let her air dry. She hates the blow dryer and I don't like the stress. Besides after a day she will look the same. Her hair naturally waves and I believe that it is supposed to. To clarify, I used the mink oil instead of corn starch not at the same time. I still spray a little on her behind when she is super clean to keep the poop from catching on the fine hair. Put up a picture of your georgeous Zoey so we can be assured that you musn't cut her hair.


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## krandall

HavaneseSoon said:


> Count me in! I just reread my notes on Jack and it appears there was matting and tangled for 9 months! And... I talked about clipping him down in August several times. Jack still has his length on hair but belly is shaved. I really do think the hair comes in ..in stages so therefore it seems like they are blowing coat forever....
> 
> Keep hangiing in there! I have given myself permissoon to clip Jack in the Spring if the knots from h..e... double l....continue. If I can make it through the Winter then I can do anything!


I noticed on Kodi too that there seemed to be a pattern to him blowing coat. It started behind his ears and around his ruff, then his hind end, and i remember it was a lot later that it hit his back.

I also remember commenting to his breeder when he was just about a year old that his hair, front and rear was nice and silky, but that his sides and back were still kind of frizzy in comparison. She told me that was still puppy coat, and that it would eventually catch up with the rest of his coat. She was right.


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## Suzi

Luciledodd said:


> Suzi from the "butt pictures" I noticed that Zoey's hair seems much lighter than Rosie's hair. It look like spun silk. I would sure hate to cut it off. The other little girl though, just go on and have her put in a puppy cut. That should relieve you of some of the stress. This was taken of Rosie last week after her bath. I just combed through and let her air dry. She hates the blow dryer and I don't like the stress. Besides after a day she will look the same. Her hair naturally waves and I believe that it is supposed to. To clarify, I used the mink oil instead of corn starch not at the same time. I still spray a little on her behind when she is super clean to keep the poop from catching on the fine hair. Put up a picture of your georgeous Zoey so we can be assured that you musn't cut her hair.


 Lucile I think Rosie and Zoey could be sisters! their coat looks the same to me. The only reason Zoeys butt looked so silkey was because I had spent 6 hours grooming her to get ready for a Havanese picnic about a hour before I was going to leave she got into something and had grease all over her. I washed her off but was unable to take her because I didn't have the 2 hr it would have taken me to get her all ready again I took Maddie and she had a good time.) 
Here is zoey air dried from yesterday. Her head looks small because it is still all greasy I think maybe its the Apple cider vinegar. Google did say it can leave hair greasy. I hardly ever wash much on her head because I'm afraid of water in her ears and that is the best part of her coat.


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## Luciledodd

I was right, it would be a shame to cut her down. I wash Rosie's head first and get it over with because she tells everyone that I am waterboarding her. I used to use the baby shampoo only on her head and then decided that was silly so it is used all over. I don't worry about water in the ears. I just hold the ear flaps down when rinsing. But think about Thumpers maltese that swim all the time. They are bound to get water in their ears, but probably shake it out. Rosie must love her hair in her face because as soon as I get finished brushing and putting the hair back, she shakes so that it comes right back. Rosie looks like she has a small head, but it is because the hair on her head is silkier, finer, and thiner and lays down close to her head. Really there is not much dog under any of that hair.


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## Suzi

krandall said:


> I noticed on Kodi too that there seemed to be a pattern to him blowing coat. It started behind his ears and around his ruff, then his hind end, and i remember it was a lot later that it hit his back.
> 
> I also remember commenting to his breeder when he was just about a year old that his hair, front and rear was nice and silky, but that his sides and back were still kind of frizzy in comparison. She told me that was still puppy coat, and that it would eventually catch up with the rest of his coat. She was right.


 How long did it take? Do you think Zoey might have a curly coat from the last picture? You can see one that the white is on the black and notice how it waves. My friends with hair like that have curly hair I would love it if it would go in ringlets  and not mat!


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## Suzi

HavaneseSoon said:


> Count me in! I just reread my notes on Jack and it appears there was matting and tangled for 9 months! And... I talked about clipping him down in August several times. Jack still has his length on hair but belly is shaved. I really do think the hair comes in ..in stages so therefore it seems like they are blowing coat forever....
> 
> Keep hangiing in there! I have given myself permissoon to clip Jack in the Spring if the knots from h..e... double l....continue. If I can make it through the Winter then I can do anything!


 OMG 9 mo :frusty: A few weeks ago I thought about becoming a groomer because I was enjoying taking care of the sisters. Oh boy do I have a different attitude now. 
Does anyone think to many baths is bad? 
Has anyone had more problems with spectrun 10 shampoe and conditioner?

Thank you Robbie I will diffidently have shorter sessions and try to not get so wired up. I have been trying to teach Zoey to lay on her side and we have been mostly combing on my lap I have her stand for the last 45 min or so. Maddie has always disliked baths for some reason.


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## clare

Well I know this might be a little controversial on the forum,but in Britain we tend not to bath our dogs anything like as often,for instance,Dizzie has a bath and really thorough grooming once every 8 weeks!And he has a really lovely healthy coat.Nellie I do once every six weeks as she becomes greasier and dirtier more quickly than Dizzie,though her coat is very easy to maintain.I groom Nellie at least once a day,because as she is smaller than Dizzie she tends to get more dirt and leaves etc in her coat.Dizzie has a brush through about once every five days.


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## Kathie

We have just recently joined the "blowing coat" club! At seven months McGee has already started! He has probably 4x the hair that Abby does so we spend half the day with little "sessions" and still can't keep up! Thank God, my DH has pretty much taken over the combing since my RA has been flaring up recently. He has a lot of patience and a lot more strength but we still laugh at how a ten pound dog can wiggle out of the arms of a 200 lb. man!!!

We are thinking of buying cornstarch by the case! It works better than anything else we've tried. It does help to know it will eventually end but Karen - 9 mos??? I am thinking Abby was only a couple of months!


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## TilliesMom

I have found that the cleaner the dog, the less the matting... at least in our case!

As for the Spectrum 10 .. I found that the conditioner was too heavy and thick for Tillie's coat and she would end up matting horrible the next several days after bath day ... but I use the shampoo and along with the plum silky conditioner and the coconut oil conditioner on the dry frizzy part of her back and that combo seems to be working great for now. Although I'm fairly sure she is through the worst of blowing coat, she has had a few small, week long times of a small matts...
we are in this together!! 
and there is NOTHING wrong with keeping a hav in a puppy cut, IF that is what you want OR if it preserves the relationship with your dog!! I finally had Tillie cut down in March because she was starting to run from me, wouldn't cuddle with me in the recliner... it was affecting our relationship, so I had her shaved down. and now she is 15 months old and her coat is growing in wonderfully!


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## Kathie

I am starting to wonder if it is the new shampoo and conditioner I got for them and used for the first time a couple of weeks ago. It is highly recommended - called Ziggy's. Abby has even had a couple of mats which is unusual for her. I might try their old shampoo next time to see if that makes a difference.

Tammy, how long has the blowing coat lasted for Tillie?


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## Suzi

TilliesMom said:


> I have found that the cleaner the dog, the less the matting... at least in our case!
> 
> As for the Spectrum 10 .. I found that the conditioner was too heavy and thick for Tillie's coat and she would end up matting horrible the next several days after bath day ... but I use the shampoo and along with the plum silky conditioner and the coconut oil conditioner on the dry frizzy part of her back and that combo seems to be working great for now. Although I'm fairly sure she is through the worst of blowing coat, she has had a few small, week long times of a small matts...
> we are in this together!!
> and there is NOTHING wrong with keeping a hav in a puppy cut, IF that is what you want OR if it preserves the relationship with your dog!! I finally had Tillie cut down in March because she was starting to run from me, wouldn't cuddle with me in the recliner... it was affecting our relationship, so I had her shaved down. and now she is 15 months old and her coat is growing in wonderfully!


 I switched about the same time you did to the spectrum 10 I have had a struggle ever since. I'm all out of my original conditioner which was a show season conditioner. Spectrum 10 doesn't have any ingredients listed . My old conditioner has Aloe, Amino Acids & sunflower oil. I will try to find the coconut oil one Robbie suggested. Although I do like my Apple cider Vinegar its cheep but am worried maybe it opens the hair follicles to much? Or might not be good for skin? I cant find anything on the Internet that states it being bad for each shampooing.
Kathy I just got all the grooming supplies out to give a lesson to Bob but Maddie ran under the bed agian I garden for a living and do a lot of pruning but I tell you my right hand is getting sore from all the grooming
I would assume one has to be very careful not to have to much cornstarch dust probley would not be good for their little lungs.
I'm happy we are getting such a good support group it would be fun to write a book on blowing coat! I'm just a idea person not a writer. I could be the photographer.:whoo:


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## TilliesMom

very interesting, ya, I just got the little trial pack of the Spectrum 10, when it runs out, I will definitly not be getting any more...


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## Luciledodd

Suzi, I tried the ACV once on Rosie when she was less thaan a year old. Her hair was terrible dry afterwards. I didn't use it again. I am putting it in her water to see if the mouth staining will go away.


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## motherslittlehelper

Oh, man, Suzi - I hope, after reading this thread, that Zoey inherited her matting from her MOTHER'S side :biggrin1: since she and Finn share the same daddy!!! While we did go through blowing coat with Augie - I think about three separate times - it was nothing like what you are describing. Finn's coat is coming in wavy. Since he is not going to be shown, if his coat gets too bad through the blowing coat phase, I will cut him down until he passes through that phase.


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## Lizzie'sMom

Lucille, what is the mink oil that you use on Rosie's butt? I need something to help Lizzie's poop slide down her hair!! Poor thing, she is always getting a butt bath.

all of a sudden I am having issues with the hair on Lizzie's shoulders. It isn't fluffy and cottony like her back. It is thick, straighter and has really started to matt. It's weird. 

Clare-I bathe Lizzie about every 6-7 weeks-well, except for her butt. I wash her face daily, too. She scratches more the few days after a bath.

I think at her next bath I am going to wash her, put conditioner in and then comb her out and then rinse her. Comb her again and then let her air dry. I let her butt air dry and it is so cute and curly.


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## Luciledodd

Lynne, I just ordered a spray can of it from one of the pet supply places. I don't use it much anymore except when she is just bathed. That is the time that everything sticks to her. I really trim around back there every time I bath her. But it is the long hair on the back of her legs that is the problem. I hate to trim that. This morning I looked at the seat I had been sitting in and there was hard poop--slightly flattened. The darn stuff sticks and then falls off in the worse places. She has gotten real good about standing still from me to check her butt. I don't know what the show people do. I have the option of cutting hair, they do not.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Claire, The wording in your post made me laugh and laugh, "controversial", nothing controversial about waiting to bath your Hav if you have the luxury. It depends on a lot of things coat type, how dirty they get, where I live the soil is red clay, I have amended it with tons of top soil in the dogs yard but that soil is loose it does not stain the coat and feet it gets all in the hair when they roll and play in it. My girl Misty has an allergy the large dose of omegaderm and the special shampoo make her get greasy in less then a week add that to the soil and grime from training. The hardest dog to keep up for me is my Lhasa every two weeks I put his coat in oil and wrap it and leave it for 6 hours, it takes about 1.5 hours to do all those little packets!!! The oil is to keep his hair from drying out because of his meds, dry hair will cause itching and matting, he takes heavy supplements for his skin and it needs to be kept clean. The first time my DH can upon Boo Boo with his packets, he thought I was perming his hair LOL (I am from California and he stereotypes me from the land of nuts). The Lhasa’s and TT’s have very different hair, our Hav’s hair is porous oil should be used with great caution as it can be extremely hard to get out and that defeats the purpose. 

I am still laughing as an American who had lived abroad much of my life…yes we tend to bath too excess…with not a care to how much water we waste. I think with the average American this does not extend to their dogs, on the forum as you know our dogs are special and well we may be a tad excessive and a little nuts…in a good way. hehe


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## The Laughing Magpie

Clare, Sorry I misspelled your name...next time I will just write GiGi.


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## clare

No worries with the name spelling!!I sometimes put the tiniest amount of coconut oil on Nellies frizzy bits!!I just let it sink in, it seems to disappear after a few hours.I use the cold press virgin coconut oil.


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## Suzi

clare said:


> No worries with the name spelling!!I sometimes put the tiniest amount of coconut oil on Nellies frizzy bits!!I just let it sink in, it seems to disappear after a few hours.I use the cold press virgin coconut oil.


 I would like to try coconut oil where do you buy it. I am going to go to sally's beauty supply and see if I can find some shampoo with it in it. I have some here that is a conditioner but it has wax in it. Don't think I want wax on her coat.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Suzy, You buy the coconut oil in the oil section of your food store it costs about $8.00.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Please don’t waste your money at Sally’s. Get on the internet or find a place that carries a dog shampoo that is coconut based. Bio groom is one, Spa Lavish is another, if I need to wash my dogs often I like the Coat Handler it is hypo allergenic, if your dog is a licker these shampoos will not make them sick and will also not bother their flea protection. The Handler has no smell it is a wonderful inexpensive product the conditioner is a leave in, or not you choose depending on your dogs needs. You can also dilute and it still works great. 

Save the expensive products for show day, also when trying some of the expensive products ask people in your club if you can go in on a gallon or 5 gallon, also you may have a friend that will sell you a small bottle of something you want to try that is diluted, this way you are not wasting money on things that you will not use

The Coconut oil has many uses but again please be careful do not use too much and if you cook with it depending on how it is pressed you do not want to use high heat it will burn big time!!!!

Hope this helps..


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## HavaneseSoon

No mats or tangles today even after working 2 nights.


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## Suzi

HavaneseSoon said:


> No mats or tangles today even after working 2 nights.


 I had a bunch of mats:frusty: I did what was suggested and have been doing small amounts for a shorter time. Zoey fell asleep she is 1/2 done and I spent about a hour. Her last bath was Sat and she needs her back end and feet washed. 
I figured it out its the two of them ruff housing that is making the mats so much worse. I am really trying to relax I hadn't watched TV for a long time our hour together was pleasant and her one side feels so nice.
Robbie thanks for the Shampoo and oil information.


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## Suzi

I tried some of the suggestions given this last week. I can say I had a lot less stress brushing daily Zoey didn't seem to mind it to much. Maddie still hates me combing her. I was going to try a experiment and see what would happen if I didn't bath weekly. So far its been two weeks for Maddie and she only takes about a half hour a day to comb. Zoey I just couldn't stand ruining all the hard work I have put into keeping her white white so I broke down and gave her a bath today. 
Its been a week since her last bath. I spent about a hour combing out all the mats before the bath. I diluted the CC spectrom 10 conditioner about 10 to one even though the bottle doesn't say to dilute it. I used my show season Amino Flex shampoo diluted 10 to 1. and used Paul Mitchell blue brighting for her bottom, beard and feet.
Guess what happened? Yep the felting thick mats! My anxiety was bad I cant believe that just getting her hair wet can cause this to happen. I beginning to think the undercoat is shrinking at a faster rate and pulling her outer coat down and getting all tangled up like felt. I stopped before I was finished to take a break and I'm going to see if they come out easier dry then wet. :frusty:


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## StarrLhasa

There was a question about where to buy mink oil spray. Amazon has several brands: Bio-Sheen, Bio-Groom, Top Quality, and Ring 5 Bright and Shine are listed under Pet Supplies. 

Make sure you search in that department only because you won't want mink oil leather preserver.


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## TilliesMom

awwww Suzi ~ sounds like a nightmare... ((HUGS)) hang in there... I have found that the CC products make Tillie matt HORRIBLY. 
Find a good coconut based conditoner and once you condition her liberally leave it ON for several minutes, then rinse it out good. and pray. lots and lots of prayer. LOL only way to survive blowing coat, other than shaving her down!!


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## Cindi

Suzi,
I've found that although I love the C.C. combs and brushes Mojo seems to mat more with both the shampoos and conditioners. Right now I'm using a shampoo called Coconut Clean Conditioning Shampoo by Nature's Specialties and a creme rinse/conditioner by Earthbath (it's with colloidal oatmeal). They work pretty well and it only takes me about 30 minutes tops to comb him out wet even if he's in full coat. I also use a leave in product called Pet Silk Liquid Silk Serum. Nothing natural about that, but a little bit goes a very long way towards removing even heavy mats for us. Don't get discouraged, it does get easier as they get older.


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## Narwyn

Suzi said:


> I tried some of the suggestions given this last week. I can say I had a lot less stress brushing daily Zoey didn't seem to mind it to much. Maddie still hates me combing her. I was going to try a experiment and see what would happen if I didn't bath weekly. So far its been two weeks for Maddie and she only takes about a half hour a day to comb. Zoey I just couldn't stand ruining all the hard work I have put into keeping her white white so I broke down and gave her a bath today.
> Its been a week since her last bath. I spent about a hour combing out all the mats before the bath. I diluted the CC spectrom 10 conditioner about 10 to one even though the bottle doesn't say to dilute it. I used my show season Amino Flex shampoo diluted 10 to 1. and used Paul Mitchell blue brighting for her bottom, beard and feet.
> Guess what happened? Yep the felting thick mats! My anxiety was bad I cant believe that just getting her hair wet can cause this to happen. I beginning to think the undercoat is shrinking at a faster rate and pulling her outer coat down and getting all tangled up like felt. I stopped before I was finished to take a break and I'm going to see if they come out easier dry then wet. :frusty:


Suzi, how are you washing her? I tend to gently squeeze shampoo through along the length. Same with conditioner.

If you're "scrubbing and rubbing" like most of us do with our own hair, you're probably accidentally causing mats.

Likewise when you dry - gently blot and squeeze, no rubbing!


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## Suzi

I have been very careful about not scrubbing. I have seen on videos people using a paper product to get more water off right after a bath have any of you tried that? Another difference is that I rigged up my own sprayer for the faucet. I couldn't find one that fit on mine so I bought a dishwasher hose and a sink sprayer and some clamps. I had to put a rubber band around the hander because the water pressure made it pop off. It still leak's but is much better than my cottage cheese container. I think the project cost about $15.00.  I did find that the mats were easier after she had dried and that maybe I'm being to delicate while combing her out .my pile of hair was about half the size of the last bath.


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## Suzi

Cindi said:


> Suzi,
> I've found that although I love the C.C. combs and brushes Mojo seems to mat more with both the shampoos and conditioners. Right now I'm using a shampoo called Coconut Clean Conditioning Shampoo by Nature's Specialties and a creme rinse/conditioner by Earthbath (it's with colloidal oatmeal). They work pretty well and it only takes me about 30 minutes tops to comb him out wet even if he's in full coat. I also use a leave in product called Pet Silk Liquid Silk Serum. Nothing natural about that, but a little bit goes a very long way towards removing even heavy mats for us. Don't get discouraged, it does get easier as they get older.


 I think your right now that makes three of us who have had worse mats from CC shampoo and conditioner. I would love 30 min tops on combing! so would Zoey!
I think I'm going to try Karen's coat handler next but just buy small bottles I like the price! and I found they have a mink oil product although Zoey doesn't seem dry or dehydrated just frizzy I am beginning to wounder if she might be a curly coat I need to see a picture of a curly coated Havanese.:


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## The Laughing Magpie

Suzy, During blowing coat it is important to brush/comb several times a day only small areas, since you work try doing it in the morning and twice in the evening, then on days you have time to the big groom. The other important thing is during blowing coat keep the hair moist so it does not get static, dry hair matts. Save yourself some trouble and do dilute the shampoo but not the condictioner, right now you need the extra help. I like CC's Ice on Ice when my guys seem to have extra mats and when Yogi was blowing coat it was my go to spray, the reason is if your dog comes out with a large matt from the bath you can spray work it in with your fingers, leave it, work on the rest of the coat and then go back and brush it out without a lot of pulling and stressing the dog. I do not use it as my everyday detangler, I use the Coat Handler detangler/anti static for everyday. The very most important thing is for you not to stress...that means slowing down taking time, using time wisely, you are learning you will make mistakes and thats ok. At home your dog only need look presentable, save the show look for special occasions and the show ring, at least until the coat blowing is over.


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## Suzi

I got this information from another trend I copied it so I can use it as a reference I think I have been using my comb to much. The boric acid for keeping the white white is the same as a product I have been using but have been afraid about her eyes. 

The general grooming procedure of the Havanese show dogs is hard work that requires time and patience. The Havanese dog has long, silky hair that requires daily brushing for optimum results. During our seven years of experience in raising Havanese, and grooming and styling many other breeds, we have had the opportunity to perfect the method that is described below. During these seven years, our dogs have become National and International Champions, Best of Breed and Best in Show.



Daily Brushing:

To achieve the best results from daily brushing the following needs to be done:

Place the dog on the table, lying down on its side and; brush in layers, starting with the front leg of the top side. Using a small brush with fine metal teeth; brush against the fall of the hair until you get to the shoulder. Use the same method for the back legs.

The shoulder is the point where the hair is separated by making a line to the buttocks. The layer of hair above the line goes up, along with the ear, and the lower layer of hair goes below of the line. Using a large brush with metal teeth, comb the top layer of hair against the growth of the hair. Comb the lower layer of hair down towards the abdomen. Once this is done comb the hair in layers toward the abdomen, until that side is completed. The lower part of the neck, chest, buttocks, tail, and flank is brushed toward the outside the same way.

Once this is done, put the dog in a standing position and brush down all the hair that was just worked.

Lie the dog down on the other side and brush in the same manner described above. Once both sides are well brushed put the dog in a standing position and brush all the hair down. The head is brushed back from the stop and the rest of the hair is brushed towards the fall of the hair.

Next, place the dog facing forward, and comb using a metal comb that has different separation on the teeth. Then use a small metal comb with thin teeth to comb the snout from the bottom of the eyes to the end of the cheeks. Use the same comb for the underside of the neck.

Glide the comb through the hair gently. If there is any resistance, the brushing must be done again until the brush goes through the hair with no difficulty.

To end the section, brush the hair gently to give it the desired fall. Let the animal shake if it wants to.

This daily brushing is essential to the health of the hair and it must be done with a quality brush and comb. The metal teeth of the brush and comb used must not be thick and no shorter than1 1/2 cm. Never use the combs to untangle the hair, only to enhance the brushing when the brush meets no resistance. Never use scrapers or teasers.

Use commercial powder to brush the area around the anus and genitals if those areas are stained with urine and feces.



The bath:

The first step for a proper bath of the Havanase is the daily brushing. Once this is completed, put cotton balls in each ear to protect the ear canal from having water come inside. Put the dog into the tub and wet it completely, taking care not to put water in the nose or directly into the ears.

When the water has saturated the hair, apply the shampoo by gently massaging the hair towards the direction of its grows, until a thick lather is obtained. Rinse until there is no trace of shampoo in the hair. Apply conditioner by spreading it evenly throughout the hair. Wait one or two minutes for it to take effect and then rinse until the excess conditioner is removed completely.

Remove the excess water with your hands by squeezing the hair downwards, then wrap the dog with a towel,. Put the dog back on the table in a the stay position and with the big brush and a hair dryer, brush slowly until the hair is just damp. Remove the cotton balls from the ears and place the dog on its side to brush its hair in the same manner describe for the daily brushing, except that the hair is not to be separated in layers until the hair is fully dry. The hairs should not be allowed to dry without being brushed. If the hair becomes dry before being brushed, dampen it again before brushing. Brush the hair until the whole animal is completely dry. 

Clean its ears with an antiseptic product. It is also recommended to put a drop of Collyrium in each eye to alleviate any irritation caused by the bath.

The Havanese show dog is given a bath every four days, on the average. Since they live in very different climates, from 35 degrees Celsius in the tropic to -10 degrees Celsius in Finland, the owner must determine when the hair of his dog becomes either dry or oily and schedule the bath accordingly. In a tropical climate this deterioration of the hair comes about every four days. It is important to determine the cycle of your dog’s bath.

Choosing the shampoo and the conditioner that best suits your dog is a complex chore that is done with patience. It helps to know that not all the Havanese ‘s hair is the same. The hair of the light colored Bichon, (white, beige, gray) tend to be dry and the dark colored ones (black and black and white, where black dominates) tend to be oily.




Puppies:

Grooming a young Havanese is not the same as with an adult. The baths are not as frequent, but the need to become more frequent, in order to train the dog to the routine of the grooming process by the time it is a young adult.



Oiling of the hair:

Oiling the hair is done every fifteen days, more or less. For the dog whose the hair tends to be dry it is done in the following way:

The day before the scheduled bath, and after the daily brushing, comb the hair using a comb with metal teeth, covering it with oil every time it is passed through the hair. Another method is to apply the oil with one hand and comb the hair that has been covered with the oil. It is important to have the comb oiled before introducing it in the hair. Work with patience until all the hair is treated with the oil. In our grooming practice we have used several types of oil, but the best results has been obtained with cooking olive oil. For the oiling procedure be effective it must be done one day before the bath. By doing this, the dog has the oil for 24 hours, which is be optimum time for the treatment.

It is very important that the owner knows the characteristic of his dog’s hair to decide if it needs the oil treatment.



The hair cut:

The Bichon Havanese does not require much hair cutting. The A. K.C. or the F. C. I. only authorizes to cut the pad of the paws using a no. 40 blade; the hairs around the anus and the area of the testicles to a measurement of two centimeters using a scissor; and the hairs around the lachrymal in the form of an arch. On the female dog the hair around the vulva is also cut with scissors; The hairs in the ear are extracted with fingers using antiseptic power or boric acid in powder. All these different procedures must be done after the brushing and before the bath.


Generalities:

The light colored Havanese dog (white, beige, golden) usually has a stain on the hair around the lacrimal, which, if not taken care of, might go to the end of the snout. This stain is produced by the congenital illness that can be eliminated by giving a dose (according to the weight of the animal) of infant suspension of lincomycin or cephalosporins in liquid form, for ten days After that treatment put a drop of collyrium (with no antibiotic) every day in the eyes . On the hairs around the lachrymal use boric acid in powder form to remove the stain. It is important to note again that the treatment with the infant antibiotic suspension is done only once for the life of the dog. The drops of collyrium and the boric acid hair washing is done every day of the dog’s life, or while the dog is being taken to shows.



Views of the Grooming salon in Cuba of the Kennel "Ay Compadre"


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## Suzi

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Suzy, During blowing coat it is important to brush/comb several times a day only small areas, since you work try doing it in the morning and twice in the evening, then on days you have time to the big groom. The other important thing is during blowing coat keep the hair moist so it does not get static, dry hair matts. Save yourself some trouble and do dilute the shampoo but not the condictioner, right now you need the extra help. I like CC's Ice on Ice when my guys seem to have extra mats and when Yogi was blowing coat it was my go to spray, the reason is if your dog comes out with a large matt from the bath you can spray work it in with your fingers, leave it, work on the rest of the coat and then go back and brush it out without a lot of pulling and stressing the dog. I do not use it as my everyday detangler, I use the Coat Handler detangler/anti static for everyday. The very most important thing is for you not to stress...that means slowing down taking time, using time wisely, you are learning you will make mistakes and thats ok. At home your dog only need look presentable, save the show look for special occasions and the show ring, at least until the coat blowing is over.


 Thanks Robie, I am so close to giving up for one I am a terrible trainer Zoey still will not walk on a loose lead She is going to be a year old Oct 18th and she will be competing against all the professional breeders and handlers. I have been going to classes for about 6mo. She is maturing and is more at ease in the ring but I feel we need to go back to the basics and learn to walk nice And it is stressful trying to keep up all her hair. There is nothing worse than spending 6 hr getting ready and spending 2 min in the ring and have her put her head down and slip all over the floor. I still need to learn to cut her hair from her pads better I hate forcing her to walk by holding the leash tight to have her head up the whole ordeal seems mean. I am very close to giving up and let her just be my pet. I keep asking myself why an I doing this?


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## TilliesMom

Why ARE you doing it Suzi?? Just honestly think about it and that will help you know what YOU want to do in your heart! 
You CAN do it if that is what you WANT!
or you can let them be pets, put them in puppy cuts and just enjoy the girls being DOGS and having FUN!
eventually the matts get better. Tillie is 15 months. I had her cut down when she was 9 months because I was spending 3 hrs a day (at different intervals throughout the day not all at once!) grooming Tillie and it was affecting our relationship. I decided our relationship was WAY more important that her looking pretty. LOL She has been growing out since March and is getting that shaggy look we all love so much. She doesn't get the horrible matts much, BUT I do have to thoroughly comb her out every day.
Just ask yourself, what DO YOU want?


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## The Laughing Magpie

Suzy, all these Sites are a great resource to help you perfect your style. I am suggesting that you hold off on oil, it can be a big mess and very hard to get out of the coat so you end up stripping the moisture from the coat and defeating the purpose. If you must try oil, ask one of the Breeders in your club to show you. I use oil on my Lhasa but he has a totally different coat, I also have to take extra precautions with my drain, I must flush it with a degreaser so it does not clog. Because Boo Boo is in bad health his hair sucks up the oil, again his coat is very different.

You do need to be very careful with Boric Acid it can cause burns and can cause blindness. Even though I do not like angel eyes for long term, if you are having a big problem it might be safer to use it for a couple of years. Showing a dog takes time and patience, sometimes you have to give yourself a break, if you worry or stress too much, it takes all the fun away.


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## Suzi

I'm glad to know that about the boric acid I wrote the manufacture and they didn't reply. Yes I think I am going to hold off on the oil her coat doesn't seem dry just full extra full and is very frizzy after blow drying. It is cool to the touch and very soft I don't think it needs oil.
Tammie I think you made a good decision I remember reading your posts and I can diffidently relate to how you were feeling only you have children who also need your time. I was told by my trainer I had to give her a bath before each show thats what the professionals do. Like two baths right in a row. Then she takes a pee and ruins the whole thing. I think it would be worth it if we could just learn to walk right I have had so many nice people try to teach me how to walk on a loose lead. Zoey just wants to run. So I thought I would run her before the show. She did walk better but the judge started off by saying to me I don't think your dog likes me just because she backed up when she put her hand out. I really don't care that we aren't getting points. I came into this as a learning experience to see if I would enjoy showing. I do think I will once I get it all together. Although I know we will never be so into it that she isn't allowed to play with Maddie and has to be created to keep her looking nice. A show here in their is probably what well do.


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## Luciledodd

Suzi leash walking is the simplest thing to teach. It is your manner and confidence that makes the dog walk along side. Rosie is so good that the cat can walk her--I am not joking. But I put a collar on her attached a leash and spent maybe 10 minutes or a little more the very first time and just took off walking. she balked of course, gasped and coughed like she was dying, then as I took another step drug her butt. But I did not look back (of course I was completely aware of ths tiny creature and not hurting her) . When she realized that I was going to walk and she had no choice she starting following. Lesson two she wanted to walk out front not beside me. I gently pulled the leash sideways just as she started to pass me and kept on walking. By lesson three she walked just where she should and I could tie the leash to my belt if I had wanted to. Just relax. Dogs pick up on your tenseness. Get out in the yard and start walking. Turn a lot, so that they realize that they have to watch you to know where to go. You will get it. Enjoy what you are doing or like Tillie said, make pets out of your dogs and enjoy them. I sure enjoy Rosie and wouldn't put myself or her through the show ring. BTW she still won't sit for me. lol And I don't care.


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## TilliesMom

LOL Tillie "sits" and lays down and "stays" like a champ ... but leash walking? Oh HECK No! LOL I am convinced she is part Alaskan Sled Dog.


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## Suzi

Is their anyone left in our support group in mat gloom like me?
I am just not keeping up with it. I was good for about a week. All in all it takes the same amount of time but just not short time 7 days a week. I am more of a 3 days a week but its really 6 days a week because I have two blowing coat. 
I tried a new product on Zoey and I really like it. My class mate for conformation raises Maltese she keeps their coat in top condition. She buys everything and has tried everything. She sold me a very expensive conditioning oil treatment. Called Summerwinds Protect A Coat www.sumerwinds.com . 
I have been leery of using a oil treatment because I don't want build up. It added another hole step to our bath yesterday. After shampoo and conditioner I filled the laundry tub up about 5 inches and added about 1/2 cup of the product. Then according to the directions you keep pouring the conditioned water over your dog for about 10 min.I think I lasted about 5 min. It is a leave on conditioner so we got out of the tub and sat in a towel for about another 5 min.
Again Zoey had mats every where the product didn't help get them out any better then any other product. However when all dried her coat didn't have any frizz and feels very conditioned. Her black looks really black her white looks really white. and It doesn't feel grease. The directions say you just have to learn how much is good for your dog. . You can also spray some on I did that after I was done. It is suppose to protect the hair in-between shampoos. Like urine and sun.
I didn't like the ingredient list just because I had been told the Mineral oil isn't that great for human hair. And why would a product that is a conditioner have alcohol? 
The directions say to give two shampoos to get it out before a show. Do you think that is the same bath? I sure hope so.


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## clare

Oh poor you Suzi,I really feel for you as today we went to the beach for what was a lovely walk and the pups both went in and out of the sea and rock pools having a great time as it is so hot here for the time of year, anyway when we got home,OMG,Dizzie was a mass of matts, his coat was like felt in certain areas,and I thought I was never going to be able to sort it all out as he absolutely hates being bathed and groomed,but luckily we got there in the end,and tomorrow I am phoning there groomer to get them trimmed and tidied up professionally.The funny thing is that Nellie who has the curlier coat didn't get matted at all,I just hosed the sea water and sand out of her fur and let her dry naturally in the sun then gave her a good brush through,with no sign of a matt or tangle.


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## Suzi

clare said:


> Oh poor you Suzi,I really feel for you as today we went to the beach for what was a lovely walk and the pups both went in and out of the sea and rock pools having a great time as it is so hot here for the time of year, anyway when we got home,OMG,Dizzie was a mass of matts, his coat was like felt in certain areas,and I thought I was never going to be able to sort it all out as he absolutely hates being bathed and groomed,but luckily we got there in the end,and tomorrow I am phoning there groomer to get them trimmed and tidied up professionally.The funny thing is that Nellie who has the curlier coat didn't get matted at all,I just hosed the sea water and sand out of her fur and let her dry naturally in the sun then gave her a good brush through,with no sign of a matt or tangle.


 We went to a river last weekend. Maddie took her first swim and Zoey tried  Maddie looked like a moss topiary she is lower to the ground and everything sticks to her. We had far more fun than any other outing I have taken them on. The area you live looks beautiful! Yes I am also thinking about a trim think I'll hang in a bit longer. Still need to train Zoe to walk nice


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## Kathie

Sorry I haven't been posting much - things going on with my dad. McGee's matting does seem a little better so I'm not sure if it was the new shampoo or if he really is blowing coat. I am going to give him a bath Monday or Tuesday so we will maybe find out what the problem is. 

McGee went on his first ever walk yesterday and again today with DH. He said he did really well! After he gets adjusted to walking on a leash we are going to try a coupler so they can walk together. We are thinking of getting harnesses for them, too, instead of wearing collars.

Suzi, I know it's hard trying to keep up grooming with two dogs - do you think your HD would help? DH has been doing Abby for over six months now and it is creating a bond with them. Who knew?


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## Suzi

Kathie said:


> Sorry I haven't been posting much - things going on with my dad. McGee's matting does seem a little better so I'm not sure if it was the new shampoo or if he really is blowing coat. I am going to give him a bath Monday or Tuesday so we will maybe find out what the problem is.
> 
> McGee went on his first ever walk yesterday and again today with DH. He said he did really well! After he gets adjusted to walking on a leash we are going to try a coupler so they can walk together. We are thinking of getting harnesses for them, too, instead of wearing collars.
> 
> Suzi, I know it's hard trying to keep up grooming with two dogs - do you think your HD would help? DH has been doing Abby for over six months now and it is creating a bond with them. Who knew?


 It would be nice if he helped. Soon it will be just the sisters and myself. I'm moving out as soon as I find a job. I think that is part of my stress. He says Maddie is his dog so their is going to be a battle. I'm not braking them up no way!


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## Kathie

Suzi, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you won't have too much of a problem keeping both your girls.

Today, we're working to get all McGee's mats out so he can get a bath. What a struggle! Peanut butter on a spoon helped a little but it would take a whole jar to get him finished.....haha We are taking lots of breaks!


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## atsilvers27

Suzi,

I am there with you, my puppy had a bout of diarrhea for about a week and we were constantly washing her and she got matted. It took me an hour to demat her sides, chest and belly (she wasn't too thrilled but she fell asleep by the end), but I am a professional groomer and know exactly what I'm doing as far as brushing/dematting. I use the Chris Christensen mini T-brush as that detangles and does a nice job of minimizing coat breakage during dematting. The key to growing a long coat is to be very consistant with brushing to prevent the mats from forming. You have to have a good eye and technique for this, otherwise a coat that looks to you like it doesn't have any mats, in reality it does and you just don't see it, then you give a bath before the dog is genuinely matt-free and you have just made your problem from bad to worse. Now that my dog's coat is getting longer (8 months old), I have stepped up my brushing from every 3 days, to every other day, to every day, to twice a day if I can. Prevention is the key, and nipping mats in the butt before they snowball is also key. Unfortunately, there is a point of no return, a point where coat is in such bad shape that it cannot be saved. Do your best to find a professional groomer that de-mats (beware some groomers DO NOT demat, just shave), and ask their opinion if the coat can be saved. Get several opinions. You may need professional help and guidance to salvage her coat, but be realistic. Is it worth it to put you and your dog through all that stress? Is it even possible? In the end, no one can decide for you, but there are physical limitations to if a coat can be saved at all.


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## krandall

atsilvers27 said:


> Suzi,
> 
> I am there with you, my puppy had a bout of diarrhea for about a week and we were constantly washing her and she got matted. It took me an hour to demat her sides, chest and belly (she wasn't too thrilled but she fell asleep by the end), but I am a professional groomer and know exactly what I'm doing as far as brushing/dematting. I use the Chris Christensen mini T-brush as that detangles and does a nice job of minimizing coat breakage during dematting. The key to growing a long coat is to be very consistant with brushing to prevent the mats from forming. You have to have a good eye and technique for this, otherwise a coat that looks to you like it doesn't have any mats, in reality it does and you just don't see it, then you give a bath before the dog is genuinely matt-free and you have just made your problem from bad to worse. Now that my dog's coat is getting longer (8 months old), I have stepped up my brushing from every 3 days, to every other day, to every day, to twice a day if I can. Prevention is the key, and nipping mats in the butt before they snowball is also key.


I had given Kodi at least a cursory combing just about daily from the time I brought him home, because I KNEW it would be important for him to be used to it later on. (having read all the mat horror stories on the forum!:biggrin1 But like you, I found that staying ahead of the mats was MUCH better than trying to de-mat every few (or even couple of) days. I really don't think I spent more time than people who try to put it off and do it only every few days either, because it went so much quicker if I did it frequently. (I also lost MUCH less long hair this way, just getting out the "puppy fuzz" underneath) When blowing was at its worst, I did him twice a day most days, but I found the MOST IMPORTANT was to make sure he had NO mats when I put him to bed. If he had even a small mat and slept on it, it would be a HUGE mat in the morning.

The good thing is that now that he's got his adult coat (he's almost 2 1/2) it's easy to care for. I still groom him daily most of the time, but, for instance, I was away from Friday through Sunday, and my DH didn't groom him at all while I was gone (he never would!). Kodi had no mats at all after 3 days. He had one of those tiny knots that attach to just two or 3 hairs behind one ear, but I was able to just pull that off with my fingers. Otherwise his coat was fine.

So there IS light at the end of the tunnel.


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## clare

Oh Suzi,so sorry to hear of your problems,hope things turn out alright,for you and your pups.


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## Suzi

I had a two week brake. And thank god I didn't have that big of a mess. It took about three hours but the mats were not anything like over a month ago. I bought Bio groom shampoo and I really like the way she feels and the smell is really nice too. I got lucky and are local feed store was discontinuing it so I got two bottles for about $6 eh. I need to order the conditioner I'm completely out.
I have a job interview in Bend this Saturday to work at mt Bachelor ski resort
I feel so weird one minute excited the other scared to death. It is a full time job and takes about another hr of commuting that would be a very long day away from the sisters. I have found several situations where I can share a house that will allow pets but the girls aren't house trained. And have never been left for more than 5 hr. I'm worried that if I get a apartment they will bark all day. Guess I'm still figuring the pros and cons. Oh and I also applied at a company called www.ruffwear.com/about_us/Careers They have great outer ware for our haves that live in cold climates. They also specialize in gear for rafting, skiing, rock climbing. Really nice collors and leashes ect ect ectt all for dogs!


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## Luciledodd

Suzi, congrats on the job. You will do fine and so will the girls. If they are left in an expen all day, with pee pads they may get trained before you know it. You might even put each in a large crate of their own. If they don't bark now, I doubt that they will if you leave them for a longer time. I have been driving myself to the office for a few hours now after all this time. I don't feel like picking Rosie up and carrying her to and from the car or taking her out to potty at the office, so I have been leaving her home. She doesn't even look up now when I leave and wonder of wonders, she waits for me to come home to potty. That is the first thing that I do is let her out in the fenced yard, so she has been holding it until I get home.

I can't imagine sharing a house. Surely there is another solution. I would much rather live in a run down cheap place than share with someone. Just another potential problem. If I can help let me know. I am a good listener if nothing else.


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## CrazieJones

I didn't know much about this "blowing coat" ordeal until I came upon it recently. Now I'm scared. However, because I shaved Roshi down before his neuter, I think I prefer his short coat look (that just seems to go against having a hav!). It's been 1.5 months since his complete shave down, and I think this look is perfect. He just have a sweet and bright puppy face! So cute and such a joy to maintain.


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## krandall

LOTS of people keep their pet Havs in puppy cuts... probably many more than those who keep them in full coat... And Roshi looks ADORABLE that way!


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## Suzi

Luciledodd said:


> Suzi, congrats on the job. You will do fine and so will the girls. If they are left in an expen all day, with pee pads they may get trained before you know it. You might even put each in a large crate of their own. If they don't bark now, I doubt that they will if you leave them for a longer time. I have been driving myself to the office for a few hours now after all this time. I don't feel like picking Rosie up and carrying her to and from the car or taking her out to potty at the office, so I have been leaving her home. She doesn't even look up now when I leave and wonder of wonders, she waits for me to come home to potty. That is the first thing that I do is let her out in the fenced yard, so she has been holding it until I get home.
> 
> I can't imagine sharing a house. Surely there is another solution. I would much rather live in a run down cheap place than share with someone. Just another potential problem. If I can help let me know. I am a good listener if nothing else.


 Thanks, I don't have the job yet but am driving for a group interview Saturday. I agree with you about the shared living. I couldn't leave them and or her that long in a confined area. A small place where they could RLH during the day would be best.
Roshi puppy cut is cute. I am thinking about giving Zoey one I just haven't 100% decided not to show her anymore.


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## Kathie

Roshi looks adorable! Since it's already short I would leave it like that until after blowing coat. Then, if you decide you want to try it long it won't be so bad.

McGee is a disaster! We finally cut some of his chest hair today. DH said it doesn't show anyway! I hated to do it but since DH is doing all the work lately I can't say much. My RA has been a lot worse lately and I just can't do it. DH combs him at least three times a day and he's never completely mat-free! I hope this will be over soon! Does anyone remember how long it usually lasts?


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## Suzi

Kathie said:


> Roshi looks adorable! Since it's already short I would leave it like that until after blowing coat. Then, if you decide you want to try it long it won't be so bad.
> 
> McGee is a disaster! We finally cut some of his chest hair today. DH said it doesn't show anyway! I hated to do it but since DH is doing all the work lately I can't say much. My RA has been a lot worse lately and I just can't do it. DH combs him at least three times a day and he's never completely mat-free! I hope this will be over soon! Does anyone remember how long it usually lasts?
> 
> 
> 
> Mine lasted about 2mo. I think we are out of it. The oil conditioner I used really helped. The last bah I gave zoey I used bio groom and CC spectrum 10 conditioner she is still soft and smells really good. I haven't brushed her in about three days and she seems good. Your DH is sweet to help out. I'm sorry your RA is so bad
Click to expand...


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## DonnaC

I'm about to give up and get a puppy cut for Baxter. When he saw me with the comb tonight, he hid behind the couch. And, he tried to bite me when I was combing him. I was even giving him treats. I still have a bath and nail clipping ahead of me. After that, he won't have anything to do with me.


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## Kathie

I can sure understand why you would want to do this, Donna. Many times I have asked my DH if he was sure he didn't want to just take McGee in for a puppy cut but he has insisted on sticking with it - not too sure I could have!

Good news here, though. McGee was mat-free long enough to get a bath yesterday so that was exciting! He's so soft and smells so sweet but has a ton of non-stop mats! We're hoping not too much longer.


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## CrazieJones

DonnaC said:


> I'm about to give up and get a puppy cut for Baxter. When he saw me with the comb tonight, he hid behind the couch. And, he tried to bite me when I was combing him. I was even giving him treats. I still have a bath and nail clipping ahead of me. After that, he won't have anything to do with me.


Dooooo it!!! I love my roshi in a puppy coat. When his coat was longer, he looked like a grumpy old dog! I like his short silly cut more. It shows off his curls better!


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## heatherk

Lizzie'sMom said:


> Lucille, what is the mink oil that you use on Rosie's butt? I need something to help Lizzie's poop slide down her hair!! Poor thing, she is always getting a butt bath.
> 
> all of a sudden I am having issues with the hair on Lizzie's shoulders. It isn't fluffy and cottony like her back. It is thick, straighter and has really started to matt. It's weird.
> 
> Clare-I bathe Lizzie about every 6-7 weeks-well, except for her butt. I wash her face daily, too. She scratches more the few days after a bath.
> 
> I think at her next bath I am going to wash her, put conditioner in and then comb her out and then rinse her. Comb her again and then let her air dry. I let her butt air dry and it is so cute and curly.


@Lynne, how old is Lizzie, and what do you feed her?

I had a problem with having to give constant butt baths quite a few months ago (like 6 months ago I think), when I was using a wrong combination of foods for Ceylon. I was actually trying to mix foods with him, but I think that the issue can come anytime when you are feeding them something that doesn't agree with them. Now that I have been feeding Cey straight Orijin, I actually can't remember the last time I had to give him a butt bath. In other words, I think an occasional butt bath is nothing to worry about, but if you are having to give them constantly, there is something wrong - you shouldn't have to be doing that, and it means that there is something in their diet that their bellies don't agree with.

Just my two cents 

-Heather


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## Suzi

DonnaC said:


> I'm about to give up and get a puppy cut for Baxter. When he saw me with the comb tonight, he hid behind the couch. And, he tried to bite me when I was combing him. I was even giving him treats. I still have a bath and nail clipping ahead of me. After that, he won't have anything to do with me.


 Mine run as fast as they can under the bed. The only time Zoey bit was when someone else was grooming her. Zoey was on her back on the womans lap. She was working on her tummy and legs. I think she pulled to hard and Zoey bit her.


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## Luciledodd

As to butt baths, I let Rosie go without a bath this time for 5 or 6 weeks. Can't even remember. I just would not feel like doing it. I kept her brushed sorta. The as her hair got its natural oil back, there were no mats at all and no poop sticking to the butt hair. before her bath yesterday, I hadn't brushed her in over a week. There were no mats at all. Very little loose hair either. After the bath, I had one foot that had a mat and took a little time to get out. But she is fluffy and I expect that fine hair might catch some poop. sure hope not. I did wash her face and nether region daily and I had put on a hair product for frizzy hair right after her last bath. I intend to put it on her today. It is just a rub in product.


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## Lizzie'sMom

@ Heather

Haha, I had to look back and see when I posted on here. I posted 9-18 and started home cooking for Lizzie in 9-20 and she has not had a butt bath since. She still scratches. I did start some new treats and am going to stop those and see what happens. She had her last homeopathic remedy 10-20 and I talk to the vet on Wed. I will see what she says. I have been switching shampoos trying to find the best one for her. BTW Lizzie is 19 months old.


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## Suzi

Luciledodd said:


> As to butt baths, I let Rosie go without a bath this time for 5 or 6 weeks. Can't even remember. I just would not feel like doing it. I kept her brushed sorta. The as her hair got its natural oil back, there were no mats at all and no poop sticking to the butt hair. before her bath yesterday, I hadn't brushed her in over a week. There were no mats at all. Very little loose hair either. After the bath, I had one foot that had a mat and took a little time to get out. But she is fluffy and I expect that fine hair might catch some poop. sure hope not. I did wash her face and nether region daily and I had put on a hair product for frizzy hair right after her last bath. I intend to put it on her today. It is just a rub in product.


 Can you brag any better. I agree about the natural oils. I thought I was over the blowing coat but after the sisters last baths they both have mats again. The weird thing is I have been getting tangles in my own hair:frusty: I don't even have conditioner for myself I think I'll try spectrum 10 on my hair this morning Zoey has a white back end and she is a very messy peeing gets all down her butt and legs. Maddie squats and lifts her back leg she is such a good girl. 
As for the boyfriend I just asked him if I try harder to get the sisters house trained and clean up after myself better can I stay. He said he didn't have time to talk about it and he doesn't think it would work. I wish I was more organized. Some people just clean as they go. I have never been that way. Boy if I put as much time into cleaning and house training as I do grooming I might have a roof over my head. 
Haha, I had to look back and see when I posted on here. I posted 9-18 and started home cooking for Lizzie in 9-20 and she has not had a butt bath since. She still scratches. I did start some new treats and am going to stop those and see what happens. She had her last homeopathic remedy 10-20 and I talk to the vet on Wed. I will see what she says. I have been switching shampoos trying to find the best one for her. BTW Lizzie is 19 months old.
*I'm glad lizzie is doing good on her new diet! I just bought Bio Groom protein Lanolin moister shampoo. I only paid $5 because the store was discontinuing it I love the smell and it works just as well as the expensive stuff.*


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## Suzi

I made a appointment to have Zoeys hair cut today and then canceled it So we had a nice bath and another picture. I researched buying my own clippers and read some maltese trends about scissor cutting verses clipper. Someone mentioned a 2" comb attachment for the clippers I was wondering if any one has tried that attachment?. Zoey loves running around and she gets so wet and dirty I just think her long coat is a bit much. Zoey's Nov 2nd Bath we tried pig tales today!


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## TilliesMom

awwwww, she looks great!! love the piggie tails!!


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## Lizzie'sMom

She looks really nice, Suzi!


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## jessegirl

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Yes the undercoat is that very light weight fluzzy fluff and when this falls out it can get stuck in the longer hair or top coat then you have the starting of a matt, during blowing coat so much is falling or blowing it is hard to keep ahead. The light undercoat is what makes our Havs hair stand off the skin making them look puffy and keeping them cool.


YES! This is exactly what's happening with Rollie now. It's like little bits of cotton ball stuck in the rest of his fur. I do believe he is officially blowing coat. This process has been happening in minor ways, but in the last 3-4 days, it's accellerated.

My favorite technique is this. I've noticed you can actually use your fingers to pull the mat apart a bit and THEN use the brush/comb. For some of the smaller mats just pulling them apart (and ultimately pulling the detached fluff out of the coat) is all you need. Rollie tolerates this much better than exclusive use of the comb/brush.


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## clare

Ah,Zoey looks glorious!!You did a great job on her,such a pretty girl,well done.


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## Kathie

Zoey looks so pretty! Jessica, I do the same thing with McGee when we're just sitting around and he tolerates the "finger combing" better than the actual comb! Of course, that is just a start! I think he is starting to slow down a little so I hope we're getting toward the end of coat blowing!


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## heatherk

Kathie said:


> Zoey looks so pretty! Jessica, I do the same thing with McGee when we're just sitting around and he tolerates the "finger combing" better than the actual comb! Of course, that is just a start! I think he is starting to slow down a little so I hope we're getting toward the end of coat blowing!


@Kathie, McGee is 9 months old and almost done blowing his coat? I am wondering when Ceylon will blow his coat... He's 10 months old and hasn't started yet...



jessegirl said:


> YES! This is exactly what's happening with Rollie now. It's like little bits of cotton ball stuck in the rest of his fur. I do believe he is officially blowing coat. This process has been happening in minor ways, but in the last 3-4 days, it's accellerated.
> 
> My favorite technique is this. I've noticed you can actually use your fingers to pull the mat apart a bit and THEN use the brush/comb. For some of the smaller mats just pulling them apart (and ultimately pulling the detached fluff out of the coat) is all you need. Rollie tolerates this much better than exclusive use of the comb/brush.


@Jessiegirl, ditto for you - isn't Rollie only 8 months old?? (Yes, I had to go back through yours and Kathie's posts to figure out how old your pups were!).

How funny, I am feeling anxious because my dog _hasn't_ started blowing coat yet haha! Actually, after all the horror stories, I think I just want it to start so that it can be over sooner!!

@Suzi, Zoey does look very pretty!


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## TilliesMom

maybe you'll be one of the LUCKY ones and blowing coat won't be bad at all!!
Haven't I heard that the silkier the coat the easier/quicker blowing coat is?
I know with Tillie, hers was HORRENDOUS and I ended up having her shaved down because I was spending 3 hrs a DAY grooming her!! She was about 10 months when I had her shaved down... and she is super cottony


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## heatherk

TilliesMom said:


> maybe you'll be one of the LUCKY ones and blowing coat won't be bad at all!!
> Haven't I heard that the silkier the coat the easier/quicker blowing coat is?
> I know with Tillie, hers was HORRENDOUS and I ended up having her shaved down because I was spending 3 hrs a DAY grooming her!! She was about 10 months when I had her shaved down... and she is super cottony


That would be nice... 

Wow, 3 hours a day?! I would be going out of my mind... :frusty:


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## CrazieJones

No kidding!!! 

I don't even brush my own hair (I let it go crazy), can't imagine spending 3 hrs a day brushing Roshi's.


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## motherslittlehelper

Suzi - Zoey looks soo pretty - good job!

heatherk - Augie did not blow coat until well over a year, I believe around 14 months. His hair is more like human hair, slick/slippery. I definitely knew, however, when it happened. He got massive mats behind his ears, in his jowl areas and under his chin. He matted much worse in his white areas than the black ones. But I spent nowhere near 3 hours a day on him. Possibly 45 minutes a few times. So I suppose, with Finn, I'm due for horrible matting?? I am finding a few little cotton bits in his hair now and he is just at 8 months.


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## heatherk

motherslittlehelper said:


> Suzi - Zoey looks soo pretty - good job!
> 
> heatherk - Augie did not blow coat until well over a year, I believe around 14 months. His hair is more like human hair, slick/slippery. I definitely knew, however, when it happened. He got massive mats behind his ears, in his jowl areas and under his chin. He matted much worse in his white areas than the black ones. But I spent nowhere near 3 hours a day on him. Possibly 45 minutes a few times. So I suppose, with Finn, I'm due for horrible matting?? I am finding a few little cotton bits in his hair now and he is just at 8 months.


Interesting. Maybe the silkier the hair, the later they tend to blow coat?


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## TilliesMom

and the silkier the hair the easier it can slip out of their coat as opposed to getting caught in the cotton?


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## TilliesMom

LOL, ya after hanging in there for 4 days I threw in the towel and had her shaved down. it was INSANE. if I ever get another Hav, I want a STARBORN... LOL


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## heatherk

TilliesMom said:


> LOL, ya after hanging in there for 4 days I threw in the towel and had her shaved down. it was INSANE. if I ever get another Hav, I want a STARBORN... LOL


Lol, who doesn't?


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## TilliesMom

ha ha SERIOUSLY!


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## Suzi

motherslittlehelper said:


> Suzi - Zoey looks soo pretty - good job!
> 
> heatherk - Augie did not blow coat until well over a year, I believe around 14 months. His hair is more like human hair, slick/slippery. I definitely knew, however, when it happened. He got massive mats behind his ears, in his jowl areas and under his chin. He matted much worse in his white areas than the black ones. But I spent nowhere near 3 hours a day on him. Possibly 45 minutes a few times. So I suppose, with Finn, I'm due for horrible matting?? I am finding a few little cotton bits in his hair now and he is just at 8 months.


 I probably spent 12 hr a week just on Zoey and another 4 on Maddie. . It still takes me well over three hours to comb and bath. I try to groom Zoey as if I am going to a show because I'm still learning. I still can't get her back legs and butt to look right.
Linda I hope Finn isn't bad do you have a slicker brush? It really works great to get the fuzz out. You do it like line combing small sections starting at the bottom. Zoey started at about 10 mo. She also came into heat early. 
I also have herd that some Havanese don't have much problem 
Crazey Jones I never had tangels in my own hair untill his month I don't know if its because I have spent so much time on the sisters or if it is a fluke I keep thinking of trying the dogs conditioner because I don't have anyound:
here is Zoe after our walk she is much dirtier than she looks


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## motherslittlehelper

No, I don't have a slicker brush. And I remember reading on here somewhere about a certain kind to get.....but what was it???? I also need to get the CC #5 buttercomb. So that I am prepared, as I am expecting Finn to be more difficult than Augie with blowing coat. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised. But since you are having difficulty with Zoey, I am not too hopeful. Hopefully, Zoey got this from her mother!!! :biggrin1: I will NOT spend hours grooming him, however. If it gets to be too much, he will get a haircut until we can get through the tough time. I just can't imagine him standing for that much grooming; he is not fond of the brief amount of time it takes NOW! :biggrin1:


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## Suzi

motherslittlehelper said:


> No, I don't have a slicker brush. And I remember reading on here somewhere about a certain kind to get.....but what was it???? I also need to get the CC #5 buttercomb. So that I am prepared, as I am expecting Finn to be more difficult than Augie with blowing coat. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised. But since you are having difficulty with Zoey, I am not too hopeful. Hopefully, Zoey got this from her mother!!! :biggrin1: I will NOT spend hours grooming him, however. If it gets to be too much, he will get a haircut until we can get through the tough time. I just can't imagine him standing for that much grooming; he is not fond of the brief amount of time it takes NOW! :biggrin1:


 I'm pretty sure folks liked the CC sliker brush And then Karen knows one that Tom king's wife recommended I think it was a German one? I can't remember if it was this trend or another. I didn't want to say I hope its not in the geansound: I have been trying to find out if anyone has used a comb on their klipers to get a longer buzz I think it would be nice to have about a 3 inch cut. Maddies coat never really grew that much its about 4" and she was so much easier during the change she does have an totally different coat though hardly ever mats.


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## motherslittlehelper

If anyone reads this, I hope they will jump in with the kind of slicker brush that was talked about in another thread. I never have much luck when I try to find anything in a search. I think a show or two may be coming up in our area soon. I would like to have my list prepared, should I manage to get down to it. 

I think 3-4 inches would be a good length - it should be short enough to be easy to keep up, but still look sort of 'messy' and 'frisky'.  I would kind of like to trim Augie down and neaten up his coat. It looks pretty tattered after Finn's mauling of him! I am kind of afraid to start in, however. If I go at coat trimming anything like I do pruning of my shrubs, etc, he may have no hair left when I am finished. Once I get started, it is just so much fun, I can't quit!! ound:


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## dodrop82

Isn't it a slicker brush that you aren't suppose to use on a Hav as it breaks their hair?!? Anywho, Suzi, I always use the comb attachment on the clipper when I groom the girls. I'm not sure what size it is (It's at my Mom's house, as she's got a grooming area set up at her house, so that's where I do big grooms at...) but the hair is about 2 inches long when I'm done. I also have to do a fair amount of scissoring as the attachment doesn't cut it all evenly....hope that is helpful!!!!


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## Suzi

motherslittlehelper said:


> If anyone reads this, I hope they will jump in with the kind of slicker brush that was talked about in another thread. I never have much luck when I try to find anything in a search. I think a show or two may be coming up in our area soon. I would like to have my list prepared, should I manage to get down to it.
> 
> I think 3-4 inches would be a good length - it should be short enough to be easy to keep up, but still look sort of 'messy' and 'frisky'.  I would kind of like to trim Augie down and neaten up his coat. It looks pretty tattered after Finn's mauling of him! I am kind of afraid to start in, however. If I go at coat trimming anything like I do pruning of my shrubs, etc, he may have no hair left when I am finished. Once I get started, it is just so much fun, I can't quit!! ound:


ound: That is just like me. I had the sissors out yesterday I was going to give up on showing and just give Zoey a hair cut I had no idea where to start and no idea how to do it I said don't do it you will be sorry. I looked at a vedio on clipping and thought that would be easier so I went to the store to get a klipper and found out they are expensive. I researched half the day and found a comb attachment that gives a 2'' cut I think? I have the word out to see if anyone knows how it turns out . The nice girl a Petco really listened to me and said the type of cut they do I wouldn't like it would be much shorter. She really liked Zoeys coat and she even was talking me into continuing showing.. I finally decided to wait and keep up the long coat.


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## TilliesMom

ha ha ha Linda, I said the SAME thing about getting crazy with the cutting and Tillie ending up BALD! it IS so much fun! LOL
It is super nice, to be able to give yourself 'permission' to cut them... very freeing!!


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## motherslittlehelper

Suzi said:


> ound: That is just like me. I had the sissors out yesterday I was going to give up on showing and just give Zoey a hair cut I had no idea where to start and no idea how to do it I said don't do it you will be sorry. I looked at a vedio on clipping and thought that would be easier so I went to the store to get a klipper and found out they are expensive. I researched half the day and found a comb attachment that gives a 2'' cut I think? I have the word out to see if anyone knows how it turns out . The nice girl a Petco really listened to me and said the type of cut they do I wouldn't like it would be much shorter. She really liked Zoeys coat and she even was talking me into continuing showing.. I finally decided to wait and keep up the long coat.


So, Suzi, are you saying that, at PetCo, they won't/can't give the cut you ask for? They only have 'formula' cuts? And that is all they are willing or able to do??? Lovely, if that is the case. 



TilliesMom said:


> ha ha ha Linda, I said the SAME thing about getting crazy with the cutting and Tillie ending up BALD! it IS so much fun! LOL
> It is super nice, to be able to give yourself 'permission' to cut them... very freeing!!


:biggrin1: I probably better not even think about trimming Augie this time of year, with our rain and cold temps. Bald is something he probably would not want any part of, heading into winter! ound: And what would poor Finn grab onto, when they wrestle??? :biggrin1:


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## jessegirl

heatherk said:


> @Jessiegirl, ditto for you - isn't Rollie only 8 months old?? (Yes, I had to go back through yours and Kathie's posts to figure out how old your pups were!).


Yeah, Heather - you're right. Rollie's 8 months old now. I hear you on being nervous waiting for it to start. I was. But then some people say it starts and just keeps going and going . . . . Hopefully this will all end soon and painlessly.


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## krandall

motherslittlehelper said:


> If anyone reads this, I hope they will jump in with the kind of slicker brush that was talked about in another thread. I never have much luck when I try to find anything in a search. I think a show or two may be coming up in our area soon. I would like to have my list prepared, should I manage to get down to it.
> 
> I think 3-4 inches would be a good length - it should be short enough to be easy to keep up, but still look sort of 'messy' and 'frisky'.  I would kind of like to trim Augie down and neaten up his coat. It looks pretty tattered after Finn's mauling of him! I am kind of afraid to start in, however. If I go at coat trimming anything like I do pruning of my shrubs, etc, he may have no hair left when I am finished. Once I get started, it is just so much fun, I can't quit!! ound:


The one that Pam King recommended (and actually sent home with Kodi) was a "Universal Slicker". It is a German brand, but is easily available here in the U.S. (at least on the Internet) and it's cheap.

Here is the link for it on Pet Edge:

http://www.petedge.com/product/Groo...e-Slicker-Brush/pc/190/c/214/sc/276/43320.uts

It costs less than $3.50.

Pam line brushes with it, but since Kodi has never been willing to lie down for grooming, traditional line brushing is tough. I found that the way the slicker worked best for us was that I first went through him THOROUGHLY with the CC Buttercomb, getting out EVERY mat. Then I went over him again with the slicker, getting down to the skin. This collected all the loose puppy fuzz that was ready to come out, without breaking any of the long hair. (since it was already combed out) I did sometimes use the slicker to slowly work my way into a mat, but only if it was far enough from the skin that I could hold the base of it and work on it without pulling his skin too much. Incidentally, if your dog won't lie down, you can use plastic hair clips like the hair dresser uses to hold top layers out of the way while you work on a mat lower down.

I don't use the slicker as a regular grooming tool... I haven't used it since his last coat blow, which was more than a year ago at this point. People who are afraid that it will damage the coat have to remember that almost ANYTHING you use to remove a large mat is going to do some damage. The best way to avoid damage is to catch mats quickly, before they get big, and groom as often as you can while they are blowing coat. During Kodi's major coat blow (from 9-12 months) I groomed him religiously twice a day, and if I felt something in between those times, I'd get it right away if I could.

Once you've got a big mat (or worse, if the whole coat has become matted, you are going to damage hair not matter what you do. Then you just want to cause as little damage as possible. The slicker certainly causes less "damage" than giving up and cutting the dog down.  I even have bladed mat removers that I've used from time to time. I like that route better than just cutting a mat out, since, again, it minimizes the damage. But even cutting a mat out completely (especially under the arms and in other very sensitive places) isn't the end of the world unless it's a conformation show dog. It doesn't show, and the hair will grow back.


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## misstray

I'm not sure if Brody has actually starting the process or not. He'll be 9 months Nov 7. He was starting to mat more and grooming was getting to be unpleasant so I took him to the groomer's. I'm just not sure if he's actually started blowing coat or if it was just because of the length and amount of hair he has plus the autumn dried stuff he'd get caught in his fur.


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## motherslittlehelper

Thank you, Karen. I try to keep a small notebook by my computer to jot down such things - tools, shampoos, dog toys, etc. that I simply must have ound: but somehow that one didn't make it onto the list, even though I recall reading about one that had been recommended, and your post reminded me that it was you who had posted about Pam King sending one home with you. Dog teeth are the thing I have found that damages the coat worse than anything. Augie rarely gets any mats these days, UNLESS he and Finn have been wrestling. And he had a lot of hair removed or broken off when Finn used to hang from his hair when he was smaller. I was always pulling Augie's hair (the stuff that had been yanked out or broken off) out of his mouth. 

Yeah, I am not so sure how I am going to get Finn mat free when he goes into full 'coat blow' mode. I may be sitting ON him on the floor!! ound: A set-up like you have over your dryer is definitely called for. And I may have to get one of those strap things for each end of him. He is so incredibly strong.


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## HavaneseSoon

Grooming a Hav that is blowing coat is very time consuming. I survived with Jack, but then I decided to cut him down shorter. I remember the wet winter from last year, all the wet leaves, rain, dead grass. Jack did not like me coming to get him to groom, he looked so pitiful. He needed break and so did I.

Clipping is fun and once you mastered the technique, it takes less than 15 minutes to use the clippers. More time is spent using the scissors on the legs and trimming the belly shorter.

Hair grows. Sometimes, we just need a break from the the long grooming sessions. Hair grows.


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## TilliesMom

AMEN. hair grows! oh SO fast too!!


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## Suzi

misstray said:


> I'm not sure if Brody has actually starting the process or not. He'll be 9 months Nov 7. He was starting to mat more and grooming was getting to be unpleasant so I took him to the groomer's. I'm just not sure if he's actually started blowing coat or if it was just because of the length and amount of hair he has plus the autumn dried stuff he'd get caught in his fur.


 He probably is blowing coat. Does he get really matted behind his ears? Like within two days? Maddie has a short coat and she is still matting much more than about 4mo ago she is about 15 1/2 mo old. Right now she is mating worse than Zoey. Zoey was about 10 mo when she started.


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## Suzi

So, Suzi, are you saying that, at PetCo, they won't/can't give the cut you ask for? They only have 'formula' cuts? And that is all they are willing or able to do??? Lovely, if that is the case.
I don't want to say that that is the case. I don't think they spend the time to do a scissor cut. I showed her a picture and she said their clippers couldn't give that longer look. I told her I had been showing her and she examined her coat and her. She was pushing me into continuing showing. Even gave me a name and number of a trainer to help me teach Zoe to walk for me. I appreciated her being honest about the clipper cut and swaying me into sticking with the showing. She must have some background in the show world. What I didn't like about the shop is that they but the dogs in cages with dryer's attached I have herd that can be too hot. 
No matter what if you bring in a dog with a bunch of mats and they get them in and out I feel that the dog is being miss treated. I think thats why I take so long I am very gentle. The sister's still run when they see me getting out the stuff but they have never been hurt. Well as far as I know Havanese are tough little guys. I'm sure it isn't fun thats the biggest reason I don't like showing her.
I feel having to be so meticulous about her coat is not allowing her to just be a dog. When you go to a show your dog is spending so many hours getting ready all for about a 10 min deal. It gets really disappointing when the judges are picking Havanese that are being flat ironed , Hair cuts and a big name behind them. I'm confident that if I do stick to it she will finish . I belong to a club and the professional breeders all say she will finish if I spend more time training her. I have handlers approaching me to have them show her. Its not about Zoey being a bad example of a Havanese its her mom being a very bad trainer and feeling bad that she has to go threw all that..All I really want is to have a litter or two of puppys. Maddies coat takes me about 1/4 of the time she gets to be a dog.


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## Stacierew

ok, so I wanted to add a couple of things to the conversation. My newly adopted Havie girl is 7 mo. And she is light colored, so I know that I am in for quite a bit of grooming! I'm not big on hyping up a product, but the laser lites products were miraculous on my Tibetan Terrier, and he seemed to have about 8 times the coat of my current new puppy. They have a product called silk, another called matless magic, and a lanolin conditioner. The guy who created the line showed lhasa's and afghans, so I guess he knows what drop coats are all about. One thing I learned about any of these dematting products is that you spray them on the mat, then let them sit for about 15 mins before combing the mats out. This tends to soften the hair and make it slide apart more easily. I am hoping that having more knowledge about grooming (and more good products on hand) BEFORE my hav blows her coat will help. Of course...I may also be in puppy blow induced tears in a few months time...


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## krandall

I know a number of Hav people who like Laser Lites products. Be careful to pick the right ones, though. Remember that a Hav coat is much lighter than a Lhasa's or Afghan's, and I suspect TT's too, though I don't know them as well. Products appropriate for them can be too heavy for a Hav coat and weigh it down.


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## jessegirl

We just tried the Coat Handler shampoo and conditioner. We got the 5:1 shampoo and the 15:1 conditioner. They work great!!! Rollie's coat is so soft and it is the closest to silky it has ever been. It is less frizzy and is laying flatter than usual but it does not feel weighed down. I really like the smell too - barely there, fragrance free, but fresh-smelling all the same.


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## Stacierew

Karen...I definitely agree. Im a newbie with this coat type, so we will have to see how I do : ) Jesse- thanks for the feedback. I always love "reviews". Very helpful


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## atsilvers27

motherslittlehelper said:


> So, Suzi, are you saying that, at PetCo, they won't/can't give the cut you ask for? They only have 'formula' cuts? And that is all they are willing or able to do??? Lovely, if that is the case.
> 
> :biggrin1: I probably better not even think about trimming Augie this time of year, with our rain and cold temps. Bald is something he probably would not want any part of, heading into winter! ound: And what would poor Finn grab onto, when they wrestle??? :biggrin1:


Generally speaking, yes this is mostly true. Part of it is you can only go so long with the attachment combs on a clipper, there really isn't a cut that's 3-4 inches long. The longest attachment comb I have is 1 1/4", which on a drop coated dog translates to about 1 1/2-3 1/2" depending on the area of the dog. Also, most groomers at these places have only gone through the grooming academy and don't really know how to deal with long coats.


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## Suzi

I was going to be a big gril and not wine and fuss on my second blowing coat but:frusty::israel::doh::Cry::juggle: 
I just spent hours on Zoey and I'm still not finished. I had all the tangles out and really conditioned her. Its like when she starts drying her hole under coat goes in to that felting. She is going threw a second coat change. She is about a year and a half old and has had two heat cycles. I keep thinking its drying at different rates and shrinking more. Right now I can really see the under coat from the top. I couldn't tell the difference a few months back. She has a long outer coat and the under coat is only about 2 and a half inches. Some is even shorter. Its very soft and not as wavy as her top . Any way I'm still confused I wouldn't mind if she is curly. I would get her trimmed up to look like Nina on Toms trend showing us how to razer cut a curly haired Havanese.
Okay another thing! Maddie is twice as bad right now as Zoey I have been spending double time she was totally mat free at eleven last night and she is all mats again this afternoon.


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## marlowe'sgirl

Along these lines, my pup blew coat at 8 months. Since then, it's been relatively mild, a few matts here and there, nothing major. I brushed a maybe 2-3 days a week. 

However, this last week, at 28 months old, it all went to hell again. Giant mats within a day. Does BC happen at this late age or is it a spring shedding? I really thought I was done with this!!


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## TilliesMom

I have no idea how people can comb only 2-3 times a week!!? Even when not blowing coat, if I don't comb her everyday she looks like something the cat dragged in!! LOL

Suzi, I am so sorry you are going through this again. 

Not sure about a second blowing coat, but I've heard it can happen!


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## motherslittlehelper

Man, Suzi - have you thought about getting the clippers out??! :biggrin1:

Augie had about three coat blowing episodes - first one at about 14 months, and the worst one. But I think I skated through relatively easy compared to you. Finn has been a bit more difficult, but mostly it is because I think he is more squirmy. If he would hold still, I can usually work them out. He did have about a week where it was horrid. Then about a week break and not so good again - in different places. Have no idea what the future holds for his blowing coat. Take it as it comes. He is getting better about tolerating being combed out, so hopefully, it won't be so bad the next time he blows.

Augie doesn't get combed every day. I know he would look better - until he wrestles with Finn or goes out in the wet grass and rain to potty, and then he is a mess again. He is very easy to comb out these days.


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## pjewel

I feel your pain. Having gone through a nightmare coat blowing with both boys and Ruby to a slightly lesser degree, I threw in the towel with both boys and cut them down, but so far, have hung in with Ruby, only cutting out the worst of the mats and suffering through the rest of it.


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## marlowe'sgirl

What always amazes me is how I can remove >2 dog's worth of fur from my fur monster and yet, he still is just as flurry as ever. Thank God that these mats were easily removable - score +1 for the fancy conditioner I now use instead of the cheaper stuff I started out with during the puppy days.


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## krandall

TilliesMom said:


> I have no idea how people can comb only 2-3 times a week!!? Even when not blowing coat, if I don't comb her everyday she looks like something the cat dragged in!! LOL
> 
> Suzi, I am so sorry you are going through this again.
> 
> Not sure about a second blowing coat, but I've heard it can happen!


I agree. Kodi doesn't mat if I leave hime longer between greomings, but he just looks messy and I can't stand it. So unless I'm sick or something, he gets groomed daily. It only takes 10 minutes.


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## TilliesMom

Ditto Karen. Sometimes I wonder if I have OCD tendencies. LOL


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## HavaneseSoon

I survived 3 "Blowing Coats" and ended up cutting both boys down after the blowing coat was over! It will take more than 2 or 3 comb downs a day and those comb downs will be long sessions.

Now, my boy's hair is probably about 3 inches long and they are relatively easy to keep up with the grooming. Because Jack's hair is finer, I check him each night, but I have not found any major tangles. Dexter's hair, I could probably get away with a once a week comb out.

So....."Blowing Coat" is survivable by all, but............it will be tough for both involved and I would think if you did not cut down after the first blowing coat, the second one would be tougher due to the length of the hair. 

Either way.....hair grows! They will be adorable no matter how long or short their hair happens to be.


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## Luciledodd

Karen if I combed Rosie every day in 10 minutes she would look the same messy way.


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## krandall

Luciledodd said:


> Karen if I combed Rosie every day in 10 minutes she would look the same messy way.


Yes, but she'd be a CUTE mess!:biggrin1:


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## marlowe'sgirl

Luciledodd said:


> Karen if I combed Rosie every day in 10 minutes she would look the same messy way.


Same here! My boy is just a walking dust mop. I think it would involve a lot more styling products, show-ring-style intense grooming, and confinement to a kennel to keep my guy looking perfect. Besides with his constant wrestling with the cat/dog friends, RLHs, and a love of jumping or wading in puddles, it's a losing battle.


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## Luciledodd

I reaared two little girls and they were tom-boys. They pretty much looked like Rosie all the time. Didn't matter what I did with their hair, it was always terrible. sure was glad when they got to be teen-agers and started being girls.


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## Suzi

Lucile you crack me up! I like Zoey better with a natural look she looks like she is made of yarn like a stuffed animal. The problem not only mats is that she would cord up and I don't think I want to do that. I was told its very bad on their skin. And I know her sister would have way to much fun pulling on her cords. I have a great picture of the day after our bath I'll post tomorrow.
Oh forgot to mention it is snowing really hard right now and the sisters got covered with snow flakes they loved the exciting white stuff.


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## Suzi

Okay here is a picture of the sisters just one day after their bath. It only took about five minutes to look like this
Mom why are you making us take a picture we want to go back out side


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## Luciledodd

Suzi that is pityful. You mights as well give up. lol


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## StarrLhasa

Must have been the monsoon.


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## Suzi

ound: I am so sick of rain. And they come in all full of twigs stuck to them. Times that by four dogs. :frusty:


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## CarolWCamelo

Wow, Suzi! Zoey and Maddie REALLY are frizzy-looking in that picture! But they're still adorable.

I gotta say, I had Camellia clipped almost to the skin about six weeks after she became my dog, because I knew I couldn't handle the grooming otherwise. I think she's very beautiful clipped-down. Of course, that's a Human DogMama's eye at work.

Just as well, because I would have ended up having to clip her down anyway, because of her allergies, and the need to get not only the special shampoo, but also, the special spray, as close to the skin as possible, to build up her missing skin barrier against environmental allergies.

As always, wishing you all the best, and give Zoey and Maddie big hugs from me, and licks and wags from Camellia.

Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:34:22 (PDT)


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## juliav

I think they look adorable!!!!


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## Suzi

They are awfully cute I got home yesterday and one of them had gotten up on my table and got the large bag of their hair Ive been collecting to someday have a hat made. The hair was all over my room I wish I had taken a picture.  But they are still my sweet baby's.


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## Suzi

CarolWCamelo said:


> Wow, Suzi! Zoey and Maddie REALLY are frizzy-looking in that picture! But they're still adorable.
> 
> I gotta say, I had Camellia clipped almost to the skin about six weeks after she became my dog, because I knew I couldn't handle the grooming otherwise. I think she's very beautiful clipped-down. Of course, that's a Human DogMama's eye at work.
> 
> Just as well, because I would have ended up having to clip her down anyway, because of her allergies, and the need to get not only the special shampoo, but also, the special spray, as close to the skin as possible, to build up her missing skin barrier against environmental allergies.
> 
> As always, wishing you all the best, and give Zoey and Maddie big hugs from me, and licks and wags from Camellia.
> 
> Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:34:22 (PDT)


Thank you for the support Carol. I have been reading some of your logs on Camellia and I think you should write a book you have a very good talent for writing. 
If you look I redesigned your shower! Not knowing the measurements I'm not sure this will work but I put the tub against the left wall and face it towards the opposite wall. If the shower hose is too short have Camellia's daddie make a longer one. Its also nice to have a on off attachment on the hose sort of like one for a garden. My hope is that you will now have room for a nice shower for your self


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## Suzi

The sisters made it threw their third blowing coat and have calmed down from being in heat. I had to have Maddie stay at Bobs for a week because she got so tired out . You know the old saying live and learn well I missed that one I guess. Bob took Maddie in again to the same groomer and asked to just trim her feet and leave the rest alone. Well she came home with the same cut they did last October it had taken 8 mo to grow out. They said that the reason she had tearing was because of the hair in her eyes. :frusty: I didn't get nearly as mad this time so I guess at least I'm able to control that
I changed the sisters food to Acana from taste of the Wild because of all the recalls with Diamond food. I have been so busy with my new job the sisters weekly bath has turned in to three. Well Maddie is obviously taken care of for now . I have been keeping up with the combing and noticed how much softer and silky Zoeys hair has gotten. I don't know if it is just that she has now grown into her adult coat , the food or three weeks of not bathing?
I went to a show last weekend and bought some Bio groom conditioner and anti static spray so I hope to join the weekend bathing group and maybe get a few pictures.


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