# Pet Insurance ?



## Tracie

Just wondering if any of you have pet insurance and if so, with which company?

Thanks


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## MarinaGirl

I insure Emmie with Trupanion. 

Things I like about them:
1. The comprehensive policy covers surgeries, diagnostic tests, medications, treatments, and hospital stays if your pet gets sick or injured. They also reimburse from your actual veterinary bill versus a predetermined benefit schedule.
2. You have the option to choose your own pet health insurance deductible, including the option for no deductible at all, or any amount from $50 to $1,000.
3. The Trupanion plan covers 90% of actual veterinary costs for approved accident and illness claims, less the exam fee and deductible. And is available for any veterinary hospital, emergency care center, or specialty hospital.
4. With Trupanion, your pet receives unlimited lifetime pet insurance coverage. Trupanion does not impose any per incident limits, annual limits, or lifetime limits on the amount of care your pet can receive.


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## Heather's

I have Healthy Paws for my two.


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## boomana

I've never had any, but have been looking into it. My co-worker has an active, healthy terrier mix that just moved wrong on the stairs one day, ended up dislocating both shoulders. The bill so far has been $7000 and is climbing. With two rambunctious doggies, I can't count accidents out. Most of my friends have trupanion.


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## Dee Dee

I have PetPlan for Sophie. I've not had insurance before so don't know how it compares. I've only filed one claim (for our $400 + trip to the neurologist when it turned out it was a bee sting) *blush* they just today processed the claim and are sending a reimbursement check so will be anxious to see how much it is.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

I have Healthy Paws. Check out their website as they have good coverage and pretty good rates. They also have a chart on the site that compares coverages to other insurance carriers. I went through an agent and for the life of me I can't remember her name but I got the referral from someone on this forum. She also recommended Healthy Paws and was able to answer my many questions regarding the various companies. If I can find it, I'll post her email address.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

I found the email address! Here it is [email protected]

She also has a website http://www.glenkirkagency.com/


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## Tracie

Thanks for the information. I think I will purchase it just for peace of mind if I can get it for a reasonable price and it sounds like I should be able to - I'd hate to have to decide between paying a vet bill or paying my kid's college tuition!


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## seesawhavanese

We insure Mochi with Trupanion. So far, we haven't had to make a claim. Our vet gave us a 1 month trial.


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## krandall

Kodi has never been insured... we always felt comfortable self-insuring them. But now, with three, I wonder... When I checked rates, though, at Kodi's age, it would be expensive for him. I'm thinking it might make sense to insure the two girls, and continue our self-insure policy with Kodi.


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## LochTess

I've always had pet insurance and it saved my life many times and wouldn't be 
without it. But it's true that as your dog ages it gets more expensive! 

I was really torn between Healthypaws & Petplan!!They both have pros and cons 
but in the end I went with Healthypaws.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

I really was torn about getting insurance for Willow. However, she is displaying a mild luxating patella so I decided to go with insurance for the time being.


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## Chris TO

I ended up going with PetPlan. Their price seemed pretty reasonable for the coverage they offered .... Not sure how reputable the company is but hopefully they come through if I ever need them. Here are my plan details:

veterinary fees $12,000
boarding kennel and cattery fees $250
advertising and reward $250
loss due to theft or straying $250
death from injury or illness $0
vacation cancellation $0
deductible $200
reimbursement level 100 %

Monthly Premium $39.05 CAD

Any comments welcome, I'm still new to all this and can switch if there are better options.


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## Eveningpiper

Just to provide an alternative opinion on pet insurance: we have had at least two dogs in our house for 20 years, never had pet insurance, and had only one significant vet bill for a knee operation.


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## Cassandra

I have taken a slightly different approach. Most of these pet insurance companies allow you to design the deductible and percentage reimbursed and reduce the premiums that way. I created what is a catastrophic policy with a $1000 deductible and 70% reimbursement with a $5000 limit, but the annual cost was only $143 (discount for annual rather than monthly). The thought I had was that I would self-insure for most issues but have a catastrophic coverage backup when costs really were high for a very minimal annual premium.

Will see how it works out! Of course, none of these policies normally cover preventive or routine care, although some offer optional add-ons that do. I used Pet Best...


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## Dee Dee

Wow you have been lucky Eveningpiper I've had 3 dogs before Sophie in my adult life and each of the 3 was well over $20,000.00 in vet bills in their life time. Tons of genetic issues etc. I wish I had gotten insurance on them but it wasn't as good back then as it is now. I pray that Sophie is much healthier and for all her hopefully long life, but got the health insurance anyway. She was a few months old when I signed her up and monthly is $24.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

Foxy had DM but the diagnosis was the most expensive part what with the x-rays and MRI. After that, there wasn't really much medical care that was needed except for treating UTI's. My mutt prior to Foxy was pretty healthy too and never needed any emergency care or surgeries. I really debated whether or not to insure Willow. After seeing that she has a luxating patella, I decided to take the plunge. The policy I have is really more catastrophic too. It covers accidents and and any surgeries needed (except sterilization), even if they are genetically predisposed to whatever goes wrong.


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## MarinaGirl

Update: I ran into my dog insurance agent at the Seattle Dog Show yesterday and she's no longer recommending Trupanion; instead, she prefers Healthy Paws. I'm going to switch next week.


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## Cassandra

Healthly Paws has good reviews generally. One important difference to look for is whether the annual deductible is per year or per incident. i thnk Trupanion may be per incident and Healthy Paws is annual. Biggest problem people experience with pet insurance (like human health insurance before health care reform) is coverage for pre-existing conditions or even genetic conditions which are deemed pre-existing in some policies, not so for other policies if no signs of disabilty before waiting period. Keep that in mind if you switch policies.

Here is a link to a fairly recent comparison chart of different plans, what their different rules are. It isn't easy to figure out what will work best for you and what kind of risk you worry about!

http://www.petinsurancereview.com/features.asp


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## Heather's

I compared all the different insurance companies when we first got Scout and chose Healthy Paws. When my first havanese Sparky heart problems became a problem it was too late. I just feet more secure having my two insured.


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## fluffqueen_scully

Pet insurance can be really helpful or it can be a giant drain and waste of money. We've done a fair amount of research and talked to our vet, other havanese owners and read countless forum threads and the consensus seems to be that pet insurance is a smart investment if you own a purebred dog. 
Pure breeding is not healthy for dogs and purebreds have more health problems than mixed breeds because there's less genetic diversity and more hereditary health problems passed down from one generation to the next.

In the case of our dogs, the Havanese breed health issues are numerous. The ones that kept coming up during our research were: legg-calve-perthes disease, patella luxation, many genetic eye issues, hypothyroidism, deafness and cardiac issues. The price that you'll pay depends on how old your dog is at the time of enrollment, if/when pre-existing conditions occurred and the results of a routine visit to the vet before enrollment. The vet checkup isn't required for puppies but older dogs are usually required to have one unless they've recently been looked at and you'll need to submit those records before being approved for enrollment.

A lot of insurance companies dogs the older they get because of the increase risks of a pre-existing condition. If your dog has a clean bill of health and you get full coverage from a proper provider like healthy paws or petplan, you can claim pretty much anything that isn't preexisting.. so if you don't want any exclusions it's best to get insured when your dogs are young. As soon as there is a documented history with any condition you can mark that off the list of things that will ever be covered by any pet insurance plan.

Since our breed has a lot of genetic health risks, stay away from cheap plans and accident/illness only coverage. Opt for full genetic, congenital, comprehensive coverage that will pay a % of the actual vet bill vs. some pre-determined (and painfully low) benefits schedule amount. When you're doing your own research try and find one resource to compare plans because these companies make it hard to compare apples and apples. We tried to avoid using the comparison charts on pet insurance company websites because curiously they always seem to favor that company.

I've attached a few resources that helped us a lot with our research, hopefully you can discuss it with your vet to find the best plans for your dogs. If you need to, send me a message or reply to this thread and I'll try to answer any questions I can help with.

Havanese
https://www.petinsuranceu.com/compare-pet-insurance/ 
https://www.avma.org/public/PetCare/Pages/pet-insurance.aspx


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## krandall

I think your recap of insurance, when to get it, and advice on getting a good plan are all great. But mixed breed dogs ALSO have many health problems... Especially all the "designer mixes". And as pure bred dogs go, Havanese are actually quite a healthy breed. Breeders have done a great job of getting rid of the eye problems (juvenile cateracts) and most of the other problems are "small dog problems, not specifically Havanese problems. 

The fact of the matter is that any dog of any breed (or no breed) can very quickly have a major health crisis (or accident!) that can cost a lot of money to fix. Years ago, vets didn't have the technology or techniques to fix many of these problems and the dog was just put down. Now, when advanced treatment options are readily available, but very expensive, it's hard for an owner to put a monetary value on how much they will pay for the health and well being of their pet. 

A perfect example was that Kodi (my 7 year old) got an intestinal blockage from a "Greenie" (dental chew) when he was two. Not a "genetic problem" or an "illness", a straight, mechanical blockage. He was hospitalized for 3 days, if I remember correctly, and the bill came to $1,800... And it was medically resolved, he did not need surgery. If he had needed surgery, as is so often the case with intestinal obstructions, the bill would have been closer to $5,000. 

Cancers, which can affect ANY dog, no matter what breed or mix, can mean treatments into the tens of thousands should the owner choose that route. ACL ruptures are common in all breeds too... At $6,000 a pop, and usually if it happens in one leg, the other will follow. (And unlike cancer, after surgery, the dog is almost always fine, so it's a REAL heart-breaker if you can't afford that surgery!)

So for me, it has nothing to do with breed. It has to do with whether you are willing and able to "self insure" as we have chosen to do, and whether you are willing to make some hard decisions if you can't afford some very expensive treatments down the road. But with that, you have to balance the fact that insurance is meant to balance out the chances that a whole POOl of dogs will stay healthy enough that the premiums paid not anly pay for the ones who need it, but ALSO make money for the company. So MOST people will aleays pour more money INTO insurance than they get out of it... You are just paying for the peace of mind to know that if you get the unlucky dice roll, you don't get socked with an enormous bill.

I've had horses all my life, and of course, insurance has been available for them for MANY years before "pet insurance" became popular because of the astronomical costs involved, not only in treatment, but more importantly in replacing very valuable animals. (We're talking 10 to 100 times the cost of a purebred dog). So I am well aware of the pros and cons of insurance. We always chose to self insure for our horses too. Did we have vet bills? Of course. But over 40 years, we paid much less in vet bills than we would have for insurance. 

It's all a gamble, and every person needs to do what makes them feel more comfortable. But it really has nothing to do with our breed. We have a pretty darned healthy breed.


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## articshark

I've chosen to self-insure as well. I did do the 12 month well-puppy plan with microchip and spay, however. I made the ladies at my vet run the numbers for both and found the payment plan, even with the initiation fees, was a tad bit less than paying out of pocket. 

My chocolate female lab ate everything, if I've mentioned this before (lol). Two abdominal surgeries later (one for eating a puppy toy for my black male lab and eating two wood chairs off the back deck) at $1800 and $3000 a pop, I know full well the cost of what I might be getting into. It's a numbers game. And I'm banking on the fact that my breeder did their job to get rid of genetic issues. I KNOW I will have emergencies issues, however. Accidents, injuries and the like. But I've weighed the cost and decided to set up a rainy day "Java" fund. What I would've paid into insurance will now be set aside for emergency dog treatment. But it takes discipline not to touch the money as it grows. And it takes the ability to make huge vet payments, if necessary, in the interim. And some of those insurance policies won't fully cover the things you really need anyway. But this is a personal decision which needs to be made after lots of looking at one's finances and future plans.


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## Dee Dee

I have insurance for Sophie also just to be safe (we use PetPlan). I have had a Great Dane and 2 Longhaired Doxie kids and both are high risk health breeds. All three had awful health problems and I didn't have insurance on them and put at least $20,000.00 into vet bills on each (probably more). Which is why I am broke now! The Havanese is generally a much healthier breed and that is why I researched to find a healthier breed with the qualities I liked and chose them. Especially when you do your homework and find a puppy from a responsible breeder who has done extensive health testing. All dogs have issues but in contrast the Havanese is quite healthy.

UC Davis did a study that shows there isn't as much difference between purebred dogs and mixed breeds when it comes to health as we used to think. It depends on the issue and the breed. Ruptured cruciate ligaments actually occur more often in mixed breeds than purebreds.

https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/purebred-dogs-not-always-higher-risk-genetic-disorders-study-finds


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## krandall

Dee Dee said:


> UC Davis did a study that shows there isn't as much difference between purebred dogs and mixed breeds when it comes to health as we used to think. It depends on the issue and the breed. Ruptured cruciate ligaments actually occur more often in mixed breeds than purebreds.
> 
> https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/purebred-dogs-not-always-higher-risk-genetic-disorders-study-finds


And this study has made me wonder if it's because so many of those mixed breed dogs are spayed/neutered early. (Other studies have shown the the strong link between ACL/CCL tears and early spay/neuter)


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## Dee Dee

It could be! Or at least could be a big part of the pie that causes it. So many variables can muddy things which makes it so hard for us to know what to do sometimes.


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## Heather's

I have health insurance for peace of mind after Sparky's heart problems. My friends dog had to have eye surgery $6,500.00 and then two laser procedures at $1,500.00 each. Both our dogs problems were probably genetic. With two doggies I thought it would be a good idea. I am overly cautious.


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## CindyLou

We had heart issues with Kirby, and had a large vet bill at the end; however, he was very healthy up until that time. As the arrival of our new puppy gets nearer, I've considered if I would get health insurance this time around. I've compared what we would have put into insurance over 15 years to the actual bills, and I think that we really would have come out about even either way. That said, I'm considering going at least the catastrophic coverage route. The main reason wouldn't really be savings, but removing the stress of dealing with a serious illness and also knowing that a large payment will be involved. I think I'd rather focus on the illness at the time, and know that the cost has been spread over time. And of course, if there was never a serious illness/accident, then I would still feel like I won that one.


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## Eveningpiper

This was the big news story in Canada today:
Major pet insurer [Petsecure] says dog injuries from 'jumping, running, slipping, tripping or playing' not covered
Lawyer says there's a 'dog can't be a dog' clause

Major pet insurer says dog injuries from 'jumping, running, slipping, tripping or playing' not covered - British Columbia - CBC News


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