# Too clever?



## Jacklyn Weeks (Dec 23, 2007)

I had thought that I had just made a breakthrough in Norah's training. She had almost completely mastered sit and will come beautifully on command as well as high-five and kiss on command. Then all of a sudden, today I realized that she refused to do any of these tricks unless I was holding a treat. :frusty: I tried to re-train her without the treats and she just sulked off to her crate and won't come out. Did I make a huge mistake? Any suggestions?


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Jacklyn you need to wean her off the treats slowly, not suddenly. I would have her do a two tricks and then a treat, then three tricks and a treat, four tricks and a treat and so on a so forth until she realizes that she might or might not get a treat this time. Also you can start to wean off the treats eventually and just use praise. Do two tricks and a treat then two tricks and a praise and so on and so forth. Eventually she should do the tricks for you with no treats at all. This will take time! Don't expect it to happen overnight.

Good luck!


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

My trainer said to withhold the treats erratically so she doesn't know when she's going to get one and when she won't. To start with keep the interval short.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

I completely agree with Carolina and Jill. If you withhold the treats on occasion, she won't be able to figure out when she gets that random reward.

However, when you are training for recall ("come"), then you should almost always use a treat. That's the one exception. You want her to come every single time she is called without fail.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

Kimberly,

Do you take your dogs for walks (not training, just in the neighborhood)? If so, do you carry treats with you and use them for recall then also?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Yes, I take them for walks, and yes, I carry treats, but I don't practice recall on a leash unless we are out at the park. And yes, I use them if we are practicing recall, but I smother them in praise and rubs more than treats.

I really try to make every successful recall a huge party (for a second anyway).


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Oh, I can *SO* relate to this! At Wednesday's class, I decided to start backing off on treats for Maddie as a reward (the girl *loves* to eat). I gave her a treat every 3rd time and got away with it. Then, the instructor decided I should bring Maddie to the center of the class and demonstrate "sit", which she usually does flawlessly right away. Well the little stinker decided, "If I'm not gonna get a treat, then I'm not gonna do it!" Well, that's embarrassing, considering she's never not done a "sit" when told to. The instructor said that I was being too consistent in the times I didn't give her a treat. She said if its always the 3rd, or 2nd, or 4th, etc. the dogs just seem to know. It has to be random and unexpected, like a slot machine. At least I know what we have to work on!


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

MaddiesMom said:


> She said if its always the 3rd, or 2nd, or 4th, etc. the dogs just seem to know. It has to be random and unexpected, like a slot machine. At least I know what we have to work on!


That is incredible, Jeanne! Havs can count!!!!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh Jeanne, I love that girl, but gee whiz!


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Jeanne, I know exactly what you mean! We discovered in class last Wednesday that Tessa not only can count she knows left from right. I usually treat from my right hand so if my other hand reaches out she knows it's for something she doesn't want to do so she'll back up! Our instructor told me to begin switching up the hands. I didn't even catch on that was happening until she pointed it out to me.

These little buggers are smart. And our instructor reminded us that while we are very verbal, dogs are very tuned into body language more than the verbal commands.

I just watched a video on clicker training and she said the same thing about treating. Once they are consistent with a behavior treat only occasionally so they never know when they'll get a jackpot.

Dogs are quick studies. It's us that usually need more training :biggrin1:


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## Jacklyn Weeks (Dec 23, 2007)

Thanks so much for all of your suggestions. Last night for a short time I tried the very other thing and it actually works pretty well. The first couple of times with just praise she would look up at me like "ok great but where's my food?" but I think she is doing much better! I'm going to take this slow as to avoid regression. Thank you again for all of your help!


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## HayCarambaMama (Dec 8, 2007)

Yeah, I'm no expert, but I randomly give treats and my dogs do GREAT with tricks.


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