# Need help with dog food suggestions...



## mom23boys

Hi guys,

Zeplin was brought home to us at 12 weeks old eating Puppy Chow from his foster mom. We kept him on that for about amonth until he became accustomed to his home, and new family. We gradually switched over to Solid Gold- Wee bit. He has been on that for the last 3-4 months. However- we have noticed that he will not eat his food this week. He is active and feisty- so I do not think he is sick. He will eat here and there- but we have been throwing out the food- which we used to never have to do. He would devour it in a matter of minutes- even seconds.

We do give him the occasional treat or bisquit and he loves peanut butter in his kong as a treat as well. His poop has not changed much.

Any thoughts?

We were going to try a new food to see if it was that he was bored with it, but dh bought another Wee Bit bag- so we tried it- justto make sure it was not stale. Still not eating. So now I would like suggestions on what you fee your pup. He is 8 months old. I looked for Evo at my pet stores and could not find it- so any other advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Jennifer


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## EMarie

I feed Blue Buffalo. It is corn gluten free as well as grain free. My guys do really well on it and I don't have a single picky eater anymore. My older girl used to go 24-36 hours without eating and now she waits for her dinner!! We feed the white fish and sweet potato.


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## DanielBMe

try going to www.dogfoodanalysis.com and checking out the 5 or 6 star foods and see if any of those brands are carried by your pet store. You may end up having to find another pet store as many of the better brands are not carried in your typical dog food store.


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## mintchip

My guys get Natural Balance
Just a thought but if you change because "you think he is bored" he will always be a picky eater. If you really think that is the best for him put the food down for an amount of time and pick it up. No treats. Then at the next meal do the same. He will eat......
Think about it in terms of kids--they would love to eat their favorite food all the time but....
I hope it doesn't sound to mean but you are the boss.


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## EMarie

I agree with mintchip...my guys were on Nutro until Pirelli's seizures started b/c of the gluten so we switched to a gluten free food and that was the problem. But she never got treats and would still go 24-36 hours without eating. But sometimes you have to let them know they do NOT have a choice!!


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## DanielBMe

You should rotate your dogs food regardless every couple of months. It's actually recommended that you find 3 different brands of good kibble and rotate through them every 3 or 4 bags. Keeping your dog on one kibble for it's entire life can cause a whole different set of problems.


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## rdanielle

Have you tried adding tripe to his food? Most finicky dogs love this stuff! (That way you could get him to finish of the Wee Bit) 
http://www.petco.com/product/15035/Solid-Gold-Green-Cow-Green-Beef-Tripe.aspx

It also has good benefits:
http://www.thedogbowl.com/PPF/category_ID/0_84/dogbowl.asp

I noticed that my dogs gobble away more when I add a new ingredient or flavor rather. So I stocked up on canned food in several different flavors & rotate 2 cans until they are gone.

I have 2 picky eaters, to ensure that they CANNOT they cannot pick and choose what they like - I pulverize the kibble with the chopper attachment on my hand blender. This works ideally if you add it with canned food or an liquid supplement -- you could even add water. I started doing it for my 2 Havs that aren't picky eaters because when I started supplementing them with Salmon Oil it seemed more of it to end up in their beard! Ahh, what a great lingering fishy smell!

Might also try using one of Honest Kitchen's all life stages dehydrated formulas as a topper 1 TBS or substituting half his food with it:
http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/index.shtml

* Love this stuff! Yes, there is a bit of sticker shock when you look at the cost up front. I incorporate into my adult dogs more as a food topper/gravy something to spice up their food. (Actually cheaper than buying IAMS dog gravies in the long run - not too mention healthier). They love it! A little goes a long way. I only add a Tablespoon to the adults dogs daily meal. They suggest rehydrating with 1 cup with 1 to 1.5 cups of water. To increase our dogs water intake I use 2 cups of water to 1 cups food. Makes it last even longer! It lasts us 10 days and thats feeding 4 dogs. So, imagine how much further it'll last if you only have one or two small dogs  We have yet to make a dent in the 10lb bag! Also, you might want to make a small batch as unused portion should be used within 48 hours. Or, freeze the other portion..*

I like Wellness Super5Mix Just for Puppy - all of our puppies love this stuff!


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## DanielBMe

I feed my guys fresh green tripe twice a week. Although it stinks to high heaven (it sort of smells like blue cheese but worse), they LUUUUVVVVVVE IT. 

You can also find tripe in cans from Lamb. Hmm poor Mary now we know where her lambs went...


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## JASHavanese

I'm really torn on dog food. Remember when Kibbles and Bits was the latest rage years ago and dogs lived to be almost 20? My mom's dogs ate from the table and had Kibbles and Bits or Gaines Burgers in their bowl. Twenty some years ago I got a pom and she ate what I ate and had whatever was handy in her bowl. All of those dogs were healthy till old age and lived long lives. 
Now I pay a fortune for dog food and wonder if it's really any better than how we used to do it. If I change foods after feeding just one, the dogs can get upset stomachs. Back when, the dogs always had different things (even onion soup) and were used to a constant diet change and foods didn't bother them.


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## Lina

Honestly, it bothers me when people use the "remember when dogs were on Alpo/Kibbles n Bits/whatever" as if because the dogs you had were healthy back then means that those foods must work just as well. I'm 100% positive that a lot of dogs died back then and did NOT live to a ripe old age. Just because the dogs you had did, doesn't mean that any dog will. My great-grandfather smoked every day of his life and drank as well and lived to 92. Does that mean that I should take up smoking and drinking habitually because obviously this means I will live to 92? No, it means that he was, luckily, a person whose body could handle those things better than others, just as there are stories about very "healthy" people all around us. Every friend of mine has stories like this... a grandfather, a parent, an uncle or whoever, who ate fatty foods every day and smoked or whatever and lived for a long time. That does NOT mean you will or that it's a healthy lifestyle. So yeah, lots of dogs can live really well off of old Alpo or whatever, but lots of dogs won't. And, honestly, I wouldn't want to risk finding this out by having my dog die earlier or get really sick off of something I fed him.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Kathy

Hi Jennifer,
You don't say how often and how much you are feeding him. It could be he no longer needs the same amount as you have been giving him. I keep mine on the same kibble, but I add different things at times. For example, add a 1/2 teaspoon of plain yogurt or cottage cheese. I will keep the broth from meat I have fixed for the family (as long as there are no onions or other items that dogs should not have) and use that to pour 1 teaspoon over their kibble. If he is doing well on the kibble you are feeding I wouldn't change, but instead add a little variety. I know I don't like to eat the same meat everyday. <grin>


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## JASHavanese

Lina said:


> . So yeah, lots of dogs can live really well off of old Alpo or whatever, but lots of dogs won't. And, honestly, I wouldn't want to risk finding this out by having my dog die earlier or get really sick off of something I fed him.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


I'm not advocating the cheap stuff and you'll see in my post that I pay a fortune for dog food. I'm just wondering if we've changed a dog's system by upping the foods. 
A dog that can change foods daily vs a dog that if you change it's food quickly it gets a bad tummy really makes me wonder what we've done.


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## Lina

Jan, I wasn't saying that you were and my post was not directed at you in particular. I've just heard a lot of people using this argument lately and I guess I just finally decided to say something. I'm sorry if it felt like I was talking to you personally, I really wasn't!


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## JASHavanese

Lina said:


> Jan, I wasn't saying that you were and my post was not directed at you in particular. I've just heard a lot of people using this argument lately and I guess I just finally decided to say something. I'm sorry if it felt like I was talking to you personally, I really wasn't!


That's ok Lina, but my questions remain. I really do wonder if we're doing them any favors with the high priced dog foods we serve now. I guess we'll find out several years down the road.


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## Kathy

JASHavanese said:


> That's ok Lina, but my questions remain. I really do wonder if we're doing them any favors with the high priced dog foods we serve now. I guess we'll find out several years down the road.


Jan,
If we read the ingredients on any bag, I think you will have your answer. The junk sold in grocery stores, has stuff in it I have never heard of and have never seen in the "wild". :biggrin1:

Also, many studies have shown that the food we feed our animals can make a huge difference in their overall health. I think we are already seeing proof that feeding a better diet to our dogs is healthier.


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## JASHavanese

Kathy said:


> Jan,
> If we read the ingredients on any bag, I think you will have your answer. The junk sold in grocery stores, has stuff in it I have never heard of and have never seen in the "wild". :biggrin1:
> 
> Also, many studies have shown that the food we feed our animals can make a huge difference in their overall health. I think we are already seeing proof that feeding a better diet to our dogs is healthier.


Our dogs are so far removed from wolves that in the wild makes no sense to me. How healthy would our dogs be if we let them eat what's in the wild?
Could you direct me to a study that shows proof that what we're feeding now is improving their health?
I think back to Halo at 3.59 a can and can't remember the price of the dry and look at how sick that got 2 of my dogs. The ingredient list is very impressive.....for a human's diet but it sure didn't do my dogs any favors.


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## Kathy

JASHavanese said:


> Could you direct me to a study that shows proof that what we're feeding now is improving their health?
> quote]
> 
> Whole Dog journel has published a couple of different food studies over the years. I can't direct to them, but you might want to do a google search.
> 
> As for the Halo food, wasn't that due to something in the can being contaminated? I don't know about Halo food, have never heard of it before to be honest.


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## JASHavanese

Kathy said:


> JASHavanese said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about Halo food, have never heard of it before to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> Google it and look at the ingredients. Very impressive.....also very expensive both in buying it and in vet bills
Click to expand...


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## DanielBMe

Is this the Halo you are talking about. http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=801&cat=all

It only gets a 2 star rating oddly enough so it can't be that good.

The issue isn't letting them eat what they would eat in the wild, but rather giving them what nutrients they require for which their bodies are designed to eat. A dog may be far removed from a wolf in the wild but as far as I can tell, dogs haven't changed their digestive sytems. They still have a short digestive tract which is far more acidic than say a humans. Their bodies were designed this way for a reason. Even far removed from a wolf, a dog still cannot digest grains properly.

Obviously better nutrition and ingredients affects the overall health of a dog or any animal for that matter just as much as eating everyday at MacDonalds would affect your health. The problem is a dog can't really tell you verbally. If you eat fast food every day and are someone who is naturally slim, you may not "look" in bad shape. But maybe you don't feel 100%, maybe you won't notice the difference really until you change your diet and eat a very healthy diet. Maybe now you'll be able to run up those stairs without feeling winded. Maybe you'll have more energy overall.

Has dog food gotten better&#8230;yes and no. Some if not most is crap and is made by companies who just want to turn a quick easy profit. Then there are some who actually make a good healthy product. You do get what you pay for. I feed raw. I do pay more. Dogs don't necessarily live longer or healthier lives now. It's more likely that when we were feeding them table scraps they were healthier. I recall reading something that indicated that the health of dogs these days is very much impacted from the feeding of the crap kibble that was fed when it was first introduced to essentially now. There definitely has been a movement into providing a much better diet lately. Medicine has gotten better that's for sure. You can feed a dog the healthiest food but without any exercise though, it will do little good.

A dog will thrive on a good diet, exercise and mental stimulation. I have no science to prove it but I firmly believe it.


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## Kathy

Nicely written Daniel. I agree with all that you said, except that the good processed foods made today are helping our animals to live longer. However, as you stated, it needs to be the "whole package", good food, exercise and metal stimulation.

Thankfully there are folks in this world that can communicate better then I can through the written word to explain something! <grin>


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## JASHavanese

DanielBMe said:


> Is this the Halo you are talking about. http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=801&cat=all
> 
> It only gets a 2 star rating oddly enough so it can't be that good.


LOL the answer is yes and no. They changed it after dogs got sick. Imagine that :biggrin1:
I know....you feed raw so any dog food will be junk to you  You're allowed your opinion just as those who don't feed raw are allowed theirs.


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## JASHavanese

Kathy said:


> except that the good processed foods made today are helping our animals to live longer.


Are they? How long have quality dog foods been on the market? Over 20 years? Over 10 years? 
I'm not asking to argue, I'm asking because I haven't seen any proof of that and would like to.


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## DanielBMe

JASHavanese said:


> LOL the answer is yes and no. They changed it after dogs got sick. Imagine that :biggrin1:
> I know....you feed raw so any dog food will be junk to you  You're allowed your opinion just as those who don't feed raw are allowed theirs.


I have nothing against kibble. As long as it's good kibble. I fed Evo for my guys before switching to raw and they did very well on it. The only issue I had was that their poops were a little soft. But other than that it was fine. Truthfully I'm only against crap kibble. Our dogs don't have a say in what they eat so I think we owe it to them to feed them as best we can. Obviously we have to take personal finances into question. I just want to make sure people aren't feeding junk due to lack of education...or buying what the vet is pushing.


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## DanielBMe

JASHavanese said:


> Are they? How long have quality dog foods been on the market? Over 20 years? Over 10 years?
> I'm not asking to argue, I'm asking because I haven't seen any proof of that and would like to.


Well if your question is QUALITY kibble, then I'd say only in the last 5yrs or so. No way 10yrs ago they were making quality kibble. There might have been some small quality companies making good kibble, but I met it was a very tiny tiny part of the market. What I was trying to say earlier, from all indications, most of the problems in our dogs comes from the poor kibble diets we've been feeding the last 30yrs or so. I mean they were mostly filler, corn and grains. Definitely the improved quality kibble from some manufacturers is helping to turn that around but it's probably too soon to say for sure.


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## JASHavanese

DanielBMe said:


> Well if your question is QUALITY kibble, then I'd say only in the last 5yrs or so. No way 10yrs ago they were making quality kibble. There might have been some small quality companies making good kibble, but I met it was a very tiny tiny part of the market. What I was trying to say earlier, from all indications, most of the problems in our dogs comes from the poor kibble diets we've been feeding the last 30yrs or so. I mean they were mostly filler, corn and grains. Definitely the improved quality kibble from some manufacturers is helping to turn that around but it's probably too soon to say for sure.


Then I'm really lost on how studies show quality kibble helps dogs live longer. I agree with you that they just may have done better on table scraps like you previously said. All I have to go on is the dogs I knew over the years and those were dogs that had no clue what a walk was unless it was once a year and they didn't much like running in the yard either. Those dogs lived very long lives compared to what I'm seeing now but it sure doesn't sound healthy to me.
There's a group that pushes a food that's darn near all corn and I can't figure out why. It sounds like junk to me, but one man's junk is another man's treasure I guess.
None of us are going to be able to say THIS is the correct food for dogs since each dog's system is different. What may be great for one may give another the runs.
The stuff vets push is what puts money in their pockets from their shelves. Vets don't get much nutrition training unless they go find classes on their own. 
I really do wonder if we're doing our dogs any favors by what we feed them. I guess all we can do is what feels right to us.
I'll tell you the things that give me pause for thought. One is that in giving the puppies mush before they were ready to chew kibble, I ground up kibble in a coffee grinder (new, no residue of coffee) and added water. As it sat, the mush got thicker and thicker and I would have to add more and more water to it. It made me feel like kibble took all the moisture from a dog....that could be right, that could be wrong. Who knows?
Another thing that gives me pause for thought is that I used to be able to give my dog anything with no bad reaction to it. If I got a candy bar, so did the dogs. If I got grapes, so did the dogs. If I changed foods weekly or daily there was never a reaction from it. I can't say that about dogs now.
I'm searching for answers because I just plain don't have them. I want my dogs healthy and I want to do the best I can for them. THAT'S the only thing I am sure of.


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## EMarie

wow...the conversation that has occured since I have not been able to get on. Everyone gave me some good points to take into consideration. I am still a Blue fan, I can read every ingredient on the bag and my dog are doing well on it!! I do feed Honest Kitchen in the morning. I make the food put them in ice cube trays and freeze them. The girls all get one in the morning and the boys get two. They love it, it was just way to much to feed for their entire diet. ( I do have 2 that weigh 60+ pounds)


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## marisoma

This is a timely thread as I am in the market for a new dog food that Giotto will actually eat on a consistent basis. The only kibble he has ever devoured is Bil-Jac. This is the food the breeder had him on. I weaned him off of it and onto Merrick because Bil-Jac is full of by products and after checking dogfoodanalysis and it rating a one I thought I could do better for Giotto. However, though he did eat the Merrick (if I doctored it up with meat or canned food), he never loved it and to this day he will turn up his nose at it until he's starving and gives in and eats it. I don't mind adding bits of meat to his kibble but when that isn't even enticing him then it becomes a stress to me that he isn't eating. I seriously thought of going back to Bil-Jac because he will eat that but I don't like its nutritional content. I have tried Nature's Balance and he wouldn't eat it. I also tried Artemis and he didn't like that either. The pet store gave me samples of Instict and Timberwolf and he wouldn't eat either of them. He ate around them or spit them out. I am about at the end of my rope and ready to toss all the kibble and just feed him table scraps, but I am willing to give kibble another try.

Feeding a dog should not be this much of a challenge. I have cut out treats and just put down his food and gave him the choice of eating it or not eating it. He has gone full days without eating before finally giving in. I guess I'd just like to find a food that I can put down and he eats within a half hour. I don't want the struggle anymore.


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## DanielBMe

Have you tried Evo red meat? Unfortunately junk always seems to taste better than healthy food. I think you are entering into a battle of the wills. Try putting out small samples of each in small plates and leave them out. Eventually he will gravitate to the one he likes most. Then just buy that one. When you keep switching foods, it makes for a picky eater as he will always wonder if something better is around the corner.


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## Jane

Kathy said:


> Also, many studies have shown that the food we feed our animals can make a huge difference in their overall health. I think we are already seeing proof that feeding a better diet to our dogs is healthier.


After I got my Havs and was obsessing over what I was feeding them, it made me pay more attention to my OWN diet. That, and my own haircare regimen too! :biggrin1:

I agree that a better diet contributes to better overall health!


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## Pixiesmom

I was feeding Pixie a mixture of Life's Abundance and Wellness super 5 puppy. I was checking out the dog food analysis again and noticed Wilderness got a 6star rating. I know they started selling Blue Buffalo at Petsmart so I picked up a bag. I add a little in with her other kibble mix and she LOVES it. I was reading their website and it is a very meaty food, closest (as far as kibble) to an all meat diet. Luckily she's really not picky and she really favors meat to veggies and/or fruit. Unfortunately, I don't have the constitution to get her started on the barf diet, and I think she'd be one of the dogs who'd just love it. She seems to have an iron stomach (but woofs down food vs. chewing).
My hats off to Daniel and you guys who to go all of that effort. I'm sure your doggies are sooo happy.


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## marisoma

DanielBMe said:


> Have you tried Evo red meat? Unfortunately junk always seems to taste better than healthy food. I think you are entering into a battle of the wills. Try putting out small samples of each in small plates and leave them out. Eventually he will gravitate to the one he likes most. Then just buy that one. When you keep switching foods, it makes for a picky eater as he will always wonder if something better is around the corner.


I haven't tried Evo but it gets a six star rating and the reviews I read have been good. That may be my next try. I have about five different kinds of kibble I think tonight I will just put all of them in different bowls and let him pick his dinner. I do think the switching just encourages his pickiness, as does adding bits of chicken or meat to his kibble. That alone has gotten him to the point of not eating kibble without something extra added to it.

I just wish that Bil-Jac was better nutritionally because he does love that and will eat it by itself. If only I could find a healthier kibble he'd eat with as much gusto.


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## JASHavanese

On the subject of food, I was researching the different ingredients that are in dog food about 2 years ago. At that time quite a few people fed their havs an egg yolk a day. I don't know if people are still doing that or not, but one of the things I found was that the yucca ingredient they put in kibble LOWERS cholesterol when some were trying to INCREASE it.
I'm not going to go into whether I think the study is accurate or flawed, that's not my point here. But for those who do feed egg, it's something to think about.


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## marisoma

I bought Innova EVO chicken flavor today and tried it on Giotto. He didn't devour it, but he ate it. He left a little bit and I left the plate there and he went back an hour later and finished it. If this continues we may have our new food and one hopefully that he will eat without it being doctored up or having to coax him. 

Another thing I wonder is whether I should continue to offer him food in the morning and at night or to just leave it out all day. I am finding in the last month or so that Giotto is not very interested in eating in the morning. I always offer it and most often he doesn't eat it or if I leave it he'll come back mid-afternoon and eat a few bites. At night he always eats. He may not finish, but he eats. Is this normal? I assumed he should eat twice a day but maybe he only needs to eat once a day. And should I leave the food out? If that gets him to eat I am willing to do that, but I don't want it to turn him into a grazer who eats all day long.


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## mom23boys

Okay guys- thanks for all of your responses and insight.

I did go to the store after I looked on the food link you all provided. I wrote a few foods down that i would be willing to buy. I ended up with Blue Buffalo Puppy kibble- chicken flavor and well- he hates it!

I mixed it with his old kibble for the first few days. He ate out his old kibble- the Wee Bit from Solid Gold that he had originally stopped eating. This morning I left just the Blue Buffalo and he ate nothing. I got home from work and fed him the Solid Gold- and he wolfed it down. So I am thinking- he was really just being picky and hoping for some peanut butter or treats.

BTW- how often can I give Zeplin his kong with some peanut butter or a bit of cream cheese? 

And how often do you give treats?

What treats do you give? ( I know I ma opening up a whole can of worms now!)

What chewies do you give your pups? Zeplin is only 8 onths- so I was not sure if I could give him raw hide bones and such. I have gottne different advice- so I just held back.

OKay- thanks in advance for all your help again!


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## Esperanita

marisoma said:


> I bought Innova EVO chicken flavor today and tried it on Giotto. He didn't devour it, but he ate it. He left a little bit and I left the plate there and he went back an hour later and finished it. If this continues we may have our new food and one hopefully that he will eat without it being doctored up or having to coax him.
> 
> Another thing I wonder is whether I should continue to offer him food in the morning and at night or to just leave it out all day. I am finding in the last month or so that Giotto is not very interested in eating in the morning. I always offer it and most often he doesn't eat it or if I leave it he'll come back mid-afternoon and eat a few bites. At night he always eats. He may not finish, but he eats. Is this normal? I assumed he should eat twice a day but maybe he only needs to eat once a day. And should I leave the food out? If that gets him to eat I am willing to do that, but I don't want it to turn him into a grazer who eats all day long.


I've been wondering the same thing. Cuba is 7 months and eating Evo chicken. He was taking his sweet old time eating in the AM. Unfortunately, since I have to go to work, this doesn't work out so well. I started sending him to daycare with "Lunch" because I was worried about him. Recently, I started to add a bit of yogurt and he gobbled it down. Today when he got back from daycare (I did not pack a lunch with him since he ate most of his breakfast), he also gobbled it down undoctored. Now I am wondering if he needs less (I feed him about 2/3 cup daily) or I should feed him one daily.

Hope


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## Lilysplash I

I don't remember my two ever eating more than 1/2 cup of kibble with meat mixed in or yogurt or salmon oil. They do get some dog "cookies" daily in a limited amount. Their AM meal is hit & miss. If they miss AM I give them a 1/3 cup at night.


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## bullwinkle

DanielBMe said:


> You should rotate your dogs food regardless every couple of months. It's actually recommended that you find 3 different brands of good kibble and rotate through them every 3 or 4 bags. Keeping your dog on one kibble for it's entire life can cause a whole different set of problems.


Hi just wondering what problems with one kibble if it is nutritious....??


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## DanielBMe

marisoma said:


> I bought Innova EVO chicken flavor today and tried it on Giotto. He didn't devour it, but he ate it. He left a little bit and I left the plate there and he went back an hour later and finished it. If this continues we may have our new food and one hopefully that he will eat without it being doctored up or having to coax him.
> 
> Another thing I wonder is whether I should continue to offer him food in the morning and at night or to just leave it out all day. I am finding in the last month or so that Giotto is not very interested in eating in the morning. I always offer it and most often he doesn't eat it or if I leave it he'll come back mid-afternoon and eat a few bites. At night he always eats. He may not finish, but he eats. Is this normal? I assumed he should eat twice a day but maybe he only needs to eat once a day. And should I leave the food out? If that gets him to eat I am willing to do that, but I don't want it to turn him into a grazer who eats all day long.


I don't think there's anything wrong with leaving the food out all day. Some dogs are grazers and some are like mine, little piggies that gulp everything in site. As long as he is eating the food, then I wouldn't worry about it.


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## DanielBMe

Esperanita said:


> I've been wondering the same thing. Cuba is 7 months and eating Evo chicken. He was taking his sweet old time eating in the AM. Unfortunately, since I have to go to work, this doesn't work out so well. I started sending him to daycare with "Lunch" because I was worried about him. Recently, I started to add a bit of yogurt and he gobbled it down. Today when he got back from daycare (I did not pack a lunch with him since he ate most of his breakfast), he also gobbled it down undoctored. Now I am wondering if he needs less (I feed him about 2/3 cup daily) or I should feed him one daily.
> 
> Hope


I would feed twice a day, morning and night. Go by the package instructions for the amount of kibble to feed. Then monitor his weight. If you think he's gaining weight (can't feel his ribs when gently pressing) then give him less.

Lot fat cottage cheese is also good to mix in with the kibble.


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## DanielBMe

bullwinkle said:


> Hi just wondering what problems with one kibble if it is nutritious....??


This is from dogfoodanalysis.com


> Once you have selected a good quality dog food, that's all you need to feed, right? Not really. You should vary your dog's food periodically. There are many good reasons for this:
> 
> _ Dogs (actually all mammals) are designed to consume a range of different foods, and to obtain differing vitamins and minerals from each. They are not designed to eat "only chicken" or "only lamb" or any other food item for eternity. Changing foods, importantly the contents of those foods, every so often helps to give them the variety their bodies were designed to thrive on.
> 
> _ There is no one dog food in existence that "has it all". And remember, the feeding trials that foods go through only last for six months (and not all foods are even trialled). Changing foods periodically helps to ensure that no dietary deficiencies or excesses build up over time.
> 
> _ Variety is the spice of life. Who wants to eat the same food day in and day out? Could you do it? For months or years? Feeding your dog something different helps to ensure that he does not become bored and frustrated with his food. This will not make your dog picky - we are talking about periodic changes here, not serving up something different or adding goodies to tempt him every time he doesn't like his dinner.
> And most importantly of all:
> 
> _ It helps to avoid the development of allergies. In a few extreme cases, you (or your dog) may be instantly and violently allergic to something. But that is a few extreme cases only - the vast majority of allergies are things that build up over time and with constant exposure. The surest way to develop an allergy to chicken, for example, is to consume it daily for an extended period. It is no coincidence that the most common allergens are things that have commonly been used in dog foods for many years. The (modern) advice given by nutritionists is that feeding a wide variety of different foods, preferably from a young age, can help to avoid the development of allergies in the first place (that's the advice given for humans too).
> 
> Common signs of allergies are itchy skin, red itchy paws, chewing paws, yeast infections, ear infections, and skin infections that may respond to antibiotics but reappear as soon as the antibiotics are discontinued.
> 
> That all adds up to changing the food you feed every once in a while. That means changing to a food with different main ingredients. There is very little benefit to switching from one chicken/rice food to another, for example. If you have been feeding a food with chicken as the main ingredient, then it is far better that the next food is based on lamb, or turkey, or fish, or beef, etc and that the other main ingredients are also varied.


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## DanielBMe

mom23boys said:


> Okay guys- thanks for all of your responses and insight.
> 
> I did go to the store after I looked on the food link you all provided. I wrote a few foods down that i would be willing to buy. I ended up with Blue Buffalo Puppy kibble- chicken flavor and well- he hates it!
> 
> I mixed it with his old kibble for the first few days. He ate out his old kibble- the Wee Bit from Solid Gold that he had originally stopped eating. This morning I left just the Blue Buffalo and he ate nothing. I got home from work and fed him the Solid Gold- and he wolfed it down. So I am thinking- he was really just being picky and hoping for some peanut butter or treats.
> 
> BTW- how often can I give Zeplin his kong with some peanut butter or a bit of cream cheese?
> 
> And how often do you give treats?
> 
> What treats do you give? ( I know I ma opening up a whole can of worms now!)
> 
> What chewies do you give your pups? Zeplin is only 8 onths- so I was not sure if I could give him raw hide bones and such. I have gottne different advice- so I just held back.
> 
> OKay- thanks in advance for all your help again!


Keep in mind that peanut butter is pretty fattening. I know someone who fed a kong with peanut butter everyday. It didn't take long for his terrier to gain quite a bit of weight. You would be better off doing it maybe once a week as a special treat. Then find some type of treats to maybe put into the Kong. I have a tricky treat ball for my two guys. Every morning I break up 2 treats into it and let them work to get it out. I make some treats small so they pop out easy and some larger that will be hard to pop out. They don't get more than 3 or 4 small treats a day. Keep in mind I have 2 who are very active.

For chewies you might want to try the Merrick Flossies. They are expensive but good. For a pup, they should last long. For my guys I cut one in half and give them half each twice a week, then one day a week they will get a full one. I bought a box of 50 for $200.

When buying treats try to look for natural ones, no grain, etc. Evo treats are good, Wellness has some too. Right now I have some peanut butter treats that are Organic. My guys love them.


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## EMarie

Jennifer, 
Believe it or not I never really do the whole puppy food thing. Once the pup is about 12 weeks adult food it is for my guys. That might come for the big dog owner in me but it has never been a problem. I feed the white fish and sweet potatoe Blue Buffalo. Sorry I might should have mentioned that earlier, I tried the puppy food when my baby was little that was a not go as well. I guess they just don't like the puppy food. Switched to adult food and we have not looked back!!


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## Jane

DanielBMe said:


> Go by the package instructions for the amount of kibble to feed. Then monitor his weight. If you think he's gaining weight (can't feel his ribs when gently pressing) then give him less.


I would recommend giving _less _ (25-33% less) than what the package recommmends. For all the different kinds of kibble my guys have tried, they've NEVER eaten the amount the package recommends for their weight. I think they are just trying to sell more kibble, LOL.

Great advice to keep checking the dog's weight by feeling his ribs. I do it weekly.


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## ashi's mom

We recently switched Ashi (Havanese) and Winston (english bulldog) to Orijen 6Fish. They both love it. Great stools. I do believe I read somewhere that Havanese will go to their food bowl, eat a few bites, run around, and then to back and eat a few more bites and do this for quite a while.


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## DanielBMe

ashi's mom said:


> We recently switched Ashi (Havanese) and Winston (english bulldog) to Orijen 6Fish. They both love it. Great stools. I do believe I read somewhere that Havanese will go to their food bowl, eat a few bites, run around, and then to back and eat a few more bites and do this for quite a while.


Ahh not my guys. They will eat up their food, then quickly run to the other's bowl to see if there's anything left. They are quite the little piggies. I've never ever seen them even remotely full or satiated.


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## Esperanita

ashi's mom said:


> We recently switched Ashi (Havanese) and Winston (english bulldog) to Orijen 6Fish. They both love it. Great stools. I do believe I read somewhere that Havanese will go to their food bowl, eat a few bites, run around, and then to back and eat a few more bites and do this for quite a while.


With Cuba it all depends. He always digs out his vfish oil capsule and brings it to the living room to eat. As for the rest of the food, sometimes he will eat it all without moving form the bowl. Other times, he will pick things out and leave a mess AROUND his bowl. Todya was a lick the bowl clean day


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## Roccos Mommy

My 7 month old Havanese gets Innova Puppy and a little bit of Evo red meat. I mix in one NV chicken/Turkey Medallion, a Nuvet Vitamin, probiotic and fish oil with dinner. I read on the analysis website that the Evo is not recommended for puppies because of its' high protein content. So, I just mix in a little.


~Michelle


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## joytrink

I would like to give my dog a 5 or 6 star food but do not know where to buy them. I checked petsmart. I don't remember seeing it in Petco. I can get a 4 star there. perhaps that is good enough. Right now I am feeding Royal Canin Puppy. Any suggestions?


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## Pixiesmom

joytrink said:


> I would like to give my dog a 5 or 6 star food but do not know where to buy them. I checked petsmart. I don't remember seeing it in Petco. I can get a 4 star there. perhaps that is good enough. Right now I am feeding Royal Canin Puppy. Any suggestions?


I found Wilderness at Petsmart, which is a 6 star. Barking at the moon is sold at Petco, 6 star also. Pixie likes both.

Beth and Pixie Puff


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## joytrink

Thanks Beth, I must have overlooked it somehow. I will go pick some up today.
Joyce


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## Missy

I just find myself having to weigh in on the food thing again...I have two dogs...with very different dietary needs. This is not a medical thing, no vet has told me this...I have just discovered it through trial and error... and more importantly proved it to myself through good intentions.

Jasper, as many of you know spent much of his puppy hood acting like a depressed dog... he was very finicky (we tried almost every kibble on the market ) and would not eat any kibble for very long with the exception of Royal Canin Poodle or Special (only a 2 on the dog food analysis) ...and I would not feed raw. So after he refused my home cooked canine diet...I starting feeding him the NV medallions but cooked. We went on like this for a two years I would add potato and greenbeens to firm his stool... and I was always trying the latest greatest kibble or canned on the market... but all he would eat was the medallions cooked. About a year ago in a bout of me 2nd guessing my cooking of the medallions and robbing them of nutrients (Cash eats the medallions too) I remembered that he would actually eat the crappy RC kibble. So I got a bag. He would not eat it often and often time it would be as a treat for tricks.. but when he did I noticed he had more pep and energy. So one day-- I stopped feeding him medallions in the AM he barely ate them most of the time anyway and just put out a small plate of RC kibble. After a few days he started eating breakfast...after 2 weeks he started to play... I then cut his evening medallions in half and feed him more of the kibble. (I would say he is now on 25% medallions or real food and 75% kibble.) For almost a year now he has maintained his energy and his happiness and his poop is firm for the first time in his life. But... you know me... a few months ago I just could not reconcile all the healthful things i do for my boys and my feeding Jasper RC kibble...And I theorized that maybe it was the fact that he was eating consistently, and eating something that was being fed the way it was intended that was making the difference...(unlike my cooked medallions) so again, I looked for a kibble they would both eat. I found Taste of the Wild, not the best kibble, but still a 6 on the dog food annalysis. Both boys ate it happily...Cash's mixed with a medallion, Jasper straight with a medallion chaser. After 3 weeks...Jasper started withdrawing again and didn't seem to want to play. After 4 weeks Cash started eating his poo again...but that is part of his story. So Jasper is back on Royal Canine Poodle... with a cooked medallion at night. This seems to be what he does best on. And if he loses a year of life, I would much prefer to see his years be happy ones. I am not sure why he does well and why this extremely finicky boy chose this food perhaps he knows something we don't. 

Cash is just the opposite. If he gets RC as treats (or any other kibble even the high protein ones) or in his food he gains weight and acts ravenous (even if he is getting more food) he whines at all the places the treats are kept and starts to supplement his food intake by eating his poo. If I give him nothing but the cooked medallions and jerky treats he is fine, less hungry and no poop eating. But lately he has become a bit reserved and has less energy-- SO I am experimenting with adding some Orijen to his diet. 

I tell this story again, because I honestly believe there is no one dog food for every dog and no two dogs are alike.... I have one dog who does just simply great on corn gluten...and another who needs all meat. 

I also want to say...I have become convinced that my mixing and matching and taking a little bit of this theory and another from that and not following the feeding instructions (cooking the raw medallions) has robbed my boys of nutrients. I commend those of you like Daniel, who does the raw and does it right. But raw and home cooked is a commitment. If you can't keep it up, you will at best have created a finicky dog and at worst you may be robbing them of something they need unless you follow the rules. 

Sorry to have gone on so long... this is a topic near and dear to my heart. I feel my dog food snobbery robbed Jasper of almost two years of happiness. 

But as I always say...if what you are doing with your dog right now aint broke, don't fix it.


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## Pixiesmom

I agree Missy. Dogs are all different. I mix several kibbles in Pixie's bowl and let her free feed all day. It's what I've always done and it seems to be just fine. I've never had any problems whatsoever. 

Beth and Pixie Puff


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## joytrink

Thanks for the story Missy,
Koda seems very happy and energetic with the food I have been giving him thus far. I guess I justed assumed that the higher stars a better but maybe not. I will think about this more carefully before jumping ship. 
Joyce


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## reenybean25

I am at a loss when it comes to feeding Hugo! Two weeks, he loves his food, then he hates it. So I switch...and this goes on and on. I feel as though he only eats if he is eating it out of my hand. I know they are just a picky breed but I want him to get all the nutrition he needs! It really bothers me that he doesn't eat "dog food". This is a huge issue for me as a Havanese owner. We want the best for our little pals, but they don't seem to understand lol!! Haha..help!


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## krandall

He has you very well trained! Choose a food that you believe is a good choice nutritionally. Put it down. Pick it up again in 10 minutes, no matter whether he has eaten or not. Do not offer ANYTHING (no treats either!!!) until his next meal. Offer his meal for 10 minutes again. NO HAND FEEDING!!!

Unless there is something physically wrong with your dog, he WILL NOT STARVE. He will learn that he eats when it is offered or he goes hungry. Believe me, he will choose to eat.

Little dogs become picky eaters because people MAKE them into picky eaters.


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## SOPHIES-MOM

I'm confused about the statement that food should be rotated every few months. If it's a good quality food and they love it, why switch? I finally found a food, Acana Grasslands, that doesn't cause eye stains, and I plan to keep Sophie on this. I tried many before I found this one and it is very expensive. I plan to keep her on it as long as she likes it, and she does love it! Please tell me the problems this can cause.


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## reenybean25

he does have me well trained lol...he's definitely a little stinker! Are there any dry foods out there that anyone recommends for Havanese dogs? Im not worried about the price just wondering what food is best for their health needs and such.


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## RitaandRiley

It's recommended that foods be rotated periodically because no one food is perfect. Some can be a little high in one nutrient or a little low in another. Not such a big deal until that's multiplied by years. So I rotate brands each time. Also rotating protein types is good because different proteins offer different balances of fats. Check out www.dogfoodadvisor.com as well. More food ratings and interesting articles. Look for "how to choose a good dog food" by Dr. Karen Becker.


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## Suzi

SOPHIES-MOM said:


> I'm confused about the statement that food should be rotated every few months. If it's a good quality food and they love it, why switch? I finally found a food, Acana Grasslands, that doesn't cause eye stains, and I plan to keep Sophie on this. I tried many before I found this one and it is very expensive. I plan to keep her on it as long as she likes it, and she does love it! Please tell me the problems this can cause.


 You are buying one of the best dog foods I wouldn't worry about switching. Acanna was too rich for Zoey but I like the company and the way they process their dog food.


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## TilliesMom

RitaandRiley said:


> It's recommended that foods be rotated periodically because no one food is perfect. Some can be a little high in one nutrient or a little low in another. Not such a big deal until that's multiplied by years. So I rotate brands each time. Also rotating protein types is good because different proteins offer different balances of fats. Check out www.dogfoodadvisor.com as well. More food ratings and interesting articles. Look for "how to choose a good dog food" by Dr. Karen Becker.


interesting, I have never heard of rotating food like this .. is it something most people do??


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## RitaandRiley

Well, I'm kind of obsessed with dog food. I would say most people are not like me.:crazy:


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## motherslittlehelper

Missy said:


> But as I always say...if what you are doing with your dog right now aint broke, don't fix it.


I have to agree with you wholeheartedly on this point, Missy! Live and learn.


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## krandall

SOPHIES-MOM said:


> I'm confused about the statement that food should be rotated every few months. If it's a good quality food and they love it, why switch? I finally found a food, Acana Grasslands, that doesn't cause eye stains, and I plan to keep Sophie on this. I tried many before I found this one and it is very expensive. I plan to keep her on it as long as she likes it, and she does love it! Please tell me the problems this can cause.


I understand the theory behind rotating food... each brand has a slightly different nutritional make-up, and by rotating, you make sure all bases are covered. We do this with our bird's pelleted food. HOWEVER, Kodi has a hard time switching food. When I've tried, even with VERY slow change-over, we've ended up with tummy trouble. So I have found one brand that I believe is a good choice for him, and we stick with that.

So, if your dog doesn't have a problem with it, I'd say go for rotational feeding. But I'm not going to make my dog sick to accomplish it!


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## davetgabby

krandall said:


> I understand the theory behind rotating food... each brand has a slightly different nutritional make-up, and by rotating, you make sure all bases are covered. We do this with our bird's pelleted food. HOWEVER, Kodi has a hard time switching food. When I've tried, even with VERY slow change-over, we've ended up with tummy trouble. So I have found one brand that I believe is a good choice for him, and we stick with that.
> 
> So, if your dog doesn't have a problem with it, I'd say go for rotational feeding. But I'm not going to make my dog sick to accomplish it!


BANG ON Karen. If you have a finicky dog or difficult to transition to other foods, stick with what works. If you feed commercial and your dog handles change with no problem you can rotate with a couple of other common protein sources. Sabine says since AAFCO only really mandates that foods meet minimum levels of specified nutrients, they can vary tremendously from product to product, and rotating can help average that out over time.


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## wynne

I feed Maya Halo. She loves it. As a treat, I will give her Tiki dog which comes in a can. It is expensive at $5.00 a can , but she loves it. The cats even try to bully there way in to in bowl when I feed her it. I wish that the Tiki dog came in a dry food, but it doesn't.


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## leena365

I give mine Vets Choice Health Extension Little Bites. I also had some chicken breast into small pieces and a smal amount of cheese. Do I still need to change up the kibble?What kind of problems can they have if you do not change up their food every 3 or 4 bags?


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## davetgabby

leena365 said:


> I give mine Vets Choice Health Extension Little Bites. I also had some chicken breast into small pieces and a smal amount of cheese. Do I still need to change up the kibble?What kind of problems can they have if you do not change up their food every 3 or 4 bags?


they won't have any problems , it's just better to add a different variety of nutrients ,in case some are deficient in the one. Lucky duck for only getting one inch of snow. lol


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## leena365

Any suggestions as to what to change the kibble to? I originally orijen puppy food then switched over to Vets Choice Health Extension Little bites.


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## davetgabby

leena365 said:


> Any suggestions as to what to change the kibble to? I originally orijen puppy food then switched over to Vets Choice Health Extension Little bites.


I usually don't like giving suggestions specifically because every dog is different, but here is the Canadian company I use http://www.petcurean.com/


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## Kerwee89

Our 4 year old Havanese was on Innova for all of his life and did well but after Proctor and Gamble bought them out I was worried about quality, he is also a very picky eater. After some research I changed him to Instinct Grain Free by Nature's Variety. They have several different kinds and you can switch between them to give your dog variety. Mine loves the gamey flavors. We now have a 5 month old puppy and she loves it too. Its okay for all life stages which makes it very easy. I have also been ordering from Wag.com which makes it quite affordable and ships free to my door


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## davetgabby

Kerwee89 said:


> Our 4 year old Havanese was on Innova for all of his life and did well but after Proctor and Gamble bought them out I was worried about quality, he is also a very picky eater. After some research I changed him to Instinct Grain Free by Nature's Variety. They have several different kinds and you can switch between them to give your dog variety. Mine loves the gamey flavors. We now have a 5 month old puppy and she loves it too. Its okay for all life stages which makes it very easy. I have also been ordering from Wag.com which makes it quite affordable and ships free to my door


Welcome to the forum.  Thanks for that.


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## wynne

I guess different places rate foods differently. When I checked Halo out, it had a four out of five stars rating which is why I went with it.


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## SJ1998

I have two dogs, an adult lab and my hav puppy. The lab has always been on a raw diet, in part because our previous lab died at 5 1/2 from liver failure (my theory was over-vac etc, I am still pretty bitter about the whole thing). We use a combination of commercial raw such as primal, OC and Stella, with small mix in of pumpkin, some fish, chicken etc (usually the chicken is cooked as its part of our whole foods dinner but sometimes raw). 

The funny part was when the vet tech once said this:
"Your dog's fur looks great. What is he eating?"
"Raw dog food."
"Oh, he needs to get off that."

Pretty funny. 

That being said, early on with our lab, there were definitely times when I dont think we had it right. We do rotate now, and I think we are doing okay, but reading this forum, I am thinking about investing in some time with Sabine.

What I find frustrating though is that you pay a vet for services and advice, and I do like my vet, but you still have to do a lot of the research and work yourself.


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## davetgabby

Thanks for that, yeah I would get Sabiene to fine tune that for you.


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## davetgabby

Thanks for that, yeah I would get Sabine to fine tune that for you.


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## 1stladysoul

I am feeding my baby Grandma Lucy's Artisan grain-free pre-mix which I add fresh ground meat. She is only 3 months and we have already had a problem with food when I started her on Blue. Grandma Lucy's seems to be working ok, but I have notice some stomach grumbling after she eats. I want to try to finish this bag, which is huge considering she weighs 3.4 pounds and only eats 1/4 cup at dinner, a bit less in for morning/lunch time. I have already checked out the next food I will try which is Amicus. Has anyone else tried either Grandma Lucy's or Amicus? I found the information for my decision for Amicus at DogFoodAdvisor.com. Finding the right food has me so stressed as everyone has different opinions about doing what's right for my baby.


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