# Adult Kibble suggestions?



## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Hi All,

I'm looking for a new kibble to try for Lincoln. His allergies have subsided for now and we are finishing the rabbit/potato allergy elimination diet finally! 

I strongly suspect he is allergic to sweet potatoes, so I want to find a kibble that does not have that ingredient. 

He also seems fine with chicken, so a chicken-based kibble would be ideal.
Also, he tends to pack on the pounds, so a lower calorie (but not diet) kibble would be good (around 350-400 kcal/cup). 

I looked through the Whole Dog Journal 2007 list of approved dry dog foods and my top contenders so far are:
1. Premium Edge Adult Chicken, Rice and Vegetable
2. Natural Balance Organic Dry
3. Wellness Simple Food Solutions (Duck and Rice)

Does anyone feed their dogs these formulas, and do you like them (and does your dog like them)? Any info is appreciated!

I also have to consider things like if a food is available at a local store, etc. 

Thanks so much in advance!


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Oliver loves the Natural Balance! Comet is OK with it
They are both doing well.


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

I have always fed my boys Wellness, I feed them the super 5 mix, lamb. But I have always been happy with the wellness brand. If you go with them sign up at there website and they will send you coupons from time to time.

I hope Lincoln's problem stays gone, for both of you.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm trying two with the girls. One is a big hit and the other not so much. The more popular one is Taste of the Wild - Wetlands Canine Formula with Roasted Wild Fowl. It's grain-free. It's 375/kcals per cup. The other is Nature's Variety Prairie. I've given them the venison and now I have the beef meal and barley. It's 430/kcals per cup. Sedona will eat them both. McKenna will pick out the Nature's Variety and drop it on the floor but will eat the Taste of the Wild. I get both of them at Pet Food Express.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Jane, My boys like the Innova/Nutura products-- Perhaps the california naturals chicken and rice formula-- it is a very simple line with only like 8-10 ingredients..they also have a lower cal version. Glad to hear lincoln's allergies are better. sweet potato---LOL--- isn;t that what they give everyone as an alternative???? go figure. I'm telling you these boys need chicken, rice, blackbeans, and plantains...


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

The Fromm Chicken A La Veg made the list for the Whole Dog Journal last year, but locating it isn't always easy. There is a store in Los Altos that stocks all the Fromm varieties. (I use the Fromm Salmon A La Veg and love how the coats are doing on all my dogs. I have samples of that and of their Duck & Potato formula too. I would need to look at the ingredients to verify they are sans sweet potatoes though.)


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I also recommend what Paige said about Wellness Super 5. When Dora was a puppy she had such a finicky stomach and that is what worked for her, otherwise it was constant butt baths. She did well on the lamb. Not sure if that is good for allergies though?

I am currently on solid gold wee bits but as soon as this bag is over, we are going to try Fromms!

Amanda


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I have been using Fromm's Chicken a la Veg mixed with EVO Red Meat Small Bites. I mix it 1/2 and 1/2. Since I have been doing this, less poop and no loose stools. 

As for feeding less calories, my vet always said to look for the low fat foods to cut calories. Adult dogs don't need all the fat. If you feel they need more fat, you can supplement with olive oil or some fish oil.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Due to the recalls of 2007, the Whole Dog Journal also asked for some additional info on the making of the foods. Several brands *did not *make the list because they would not _disclose the source of their food or the origin of their manufacturer_. Here are some of the names that *did not make the list *and are well known are: Blue Buffalo, Newman's Own Organics, Royal Canin, Solid Gold, and Timberwolf.

Some of the foods that _did _make the list are Canine Caviar, Canidae, Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Organic, Diamond, Eagle Pack, Fromm, Natura (includes Karma, California Natural & Innova), Nutro Ultra, Nature's Variety Prairie, Wysong, and Wellness.

I already posted the next part in another topic, but I'll repost it here:
If you really want some good commercial food info, you should check out the February 2008 issue of the Whole Dog Journal. It just became available and it has a lot of information about the good foods, and even their sources. The no-grain foods have gotten so big that they are doing a completely seperate article on those next month. You can subscribe to the Whole Dog Journal for $20/year or you can pay a one-time price of $10 just to get the article off their web site. Since it is copyrighted, we can't copy it here, but it looks like a great article.


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## dotndani (Mar 19, 2007)

Duncan loves his Merrickfood.
As a treat we buy the cannedfoodand mixitin with kibble!!YUMMY!!!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Consummer Search does a rating of companies that rate dog foods and they came up with the no. one rating being Innova Evo . It is by a company called Natura . The Innova site has a lot of testimonials from people claiming improved allergy results. Check it out.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I just found out that Taste of the Wild is made by Diamond Foods. I know they had a recall awhile back. I need to research what it was about. I can't remember now. Maybe I won't buy a second bag.......I was feeding some kibble in addition to the raw but ???


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Mine have been eating Fromm's Adult Gold and seem to be doing well with it. It has potato as one of the ingredients, but no mention of sweet potato in it. They also have a lower calorie version.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

you might want to check out http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/ as they rate foods based on ingredients. It's a very good site.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Thank you everyone so much for your feedback and responses! 

Paige and Amanda, I LOVE Wellness Super5 and my dogs were doing great on it. But all their normal formulas have sweet potato in them. I might try their Simple Solutions line (fewer ingreds for dogs with allergies) hoping that it will taste similar. I (so far) trust the manufacturer since they weren't involved in the recalls.

Geri, thank you for telling me about Fromm's Adult gold - I just checked and it looks good, ingredient wise! (The A la veg formulas and Classic formulas all have sweet potato.) Does Milo like the taste of it? Or did he need to get used to it? Are you able to find it locally, or do you mail order? I will have to call around because they don't list any retailers that carry the Adult gold near me; perhaps a store that carries the Four-Star line can order it for me. All the internet-retailers charge almost as much to ship it as they do for the product ($38 for the food + $26/36 to ship! Eek!)

Lincoln has sadly (from previous trials) rejected Innova Evo (diarrhea - it was too rich for him), and Innova regular Adult (didn't like the taste - and he usually is quite the pig!) 

The Natural Balance Duck and Potato left Scout's coat too dry - the fat %-age is really low. But the NB Organic looks like it might be good - Kimberly, I am glad to hear it is still on the WDJ's list for 2008. I might have to shell out $20 to get that article  I was considering the Newman's Own Organics too, but since they didn't make the list, I will nix them. 

I really liked the ingredients in Canidae - but it is very high calorie at 468 kcal/cup. Don't want to see my big boy get TOO big! 

Susan, I'd never heard of Taste of the Wild, so I checked it out - they all have sweet potatoes in them. When I looked at Nature's Variety Prairie, I was kind of worried about their 6th ingredient: Montmorillonite Clay. I'm sure it is probably fine and has some great nutrient in it, but psychologically, it mystifies me! Also, it said something about it being good for "rotation feeding" - does that mean that you shouldn't feed it all the time?

DanielBMe, thanks for the link! I will definitely check that out too. The more info the better!!

Thanks again to everyone! I love the Forum!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Jane,

They do sell it locally here, but one of the other stores I went to that didn't offered to get it in for me, so I'd try that. All the dogs took to it right away. Whereas with their old food they used to take a little and the rest would sit for hours, within minutes of it being in their bowls, the Fromm's was gone. Now that they've been on it for months, sometimes they finish it immediately and sometimes it takes awhile, but they always eat it and never have stomach problems from it -- so far.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Jane,

I picked up a sample of a new food out called "Natural Planet Organics", you might want to look into it, I checked the bag and it is organic chicken, organic brown rice, carrots, broccoli, peas, blueberries, tomatos, Made in Minnesota. I've never heard of the food before, but they were giving away free 6oz bags, so I picked one up. My uber finicky Gucci even likes it. Since you are looking for a chicken blend w/o sweet potato, maybe you can put this on the list to research/try? I found a website:

http://www.naturalplanetorganics.com/

Kara


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## Lola (Mar 22, 2007)

I feed Lola Innova Adult. It has chicken, turkey, cottage cheese, etc. She loves it. She is very satisfied on this food and has learned to chew rather than inhale her food. I used to feed her Nutro Ultra and she always seemed hungary on it. I guess you just have to ry a few products and see what works best for your dog.


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## anneks (Mar 13, 2007)

Someone mentioned California Natural. I use the this on one of my dogs that needs to lose weight due to his seizure medicine and low thyroid. I searched for a weight management formula that would let him eat enough to feel full. I also loved that it is really simple, very few ingredients. Here is a link to the chicken version http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/default.asp?id=1253. I hope you find something that works for you. With so much out there it is sometimes hard to search through them all to find the right one.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> Jane,
> 
> I picked up a sample of a new food out called "Natural Planet Organics", you might want to look into it, I checked the bag and it is organic chicken, organic brown rice, carrots, broccoli, peas, blueberries, tomatos, Made in Minnesota. I've never heard of the food before, but they were giving away free 6oz bags, so I picked one up. My uber finicky Gucci even likes it. Since you are looking for a chicken blend w/o sweet potato, maybe you can put this on the list to research/try? I found a website:
> 
> ...


Just an FYI regarding the contents as per dogfoodanalysis.
"Poultry fat is a low quality ingredient rarely found in anything but very low quality foods. Poultry fat is an ingredient of unidentified origin for which it is impossible to determine source or quality. Unidentified ingredients are usually very low quality. "


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

I think if you stick with foods like Natura (Innova/Evo/California Natural etc), Timberwolf, Solid Gold, Natures Variety, Orijen, Wellness etc you pretty well can't go wrong. These are all high quality foods. It's really just a matter of finding one that's the best match for your dog.

My friend has a very picky Maltese who we tried to switch to a better quality food. After going through about 8 or 9 products he seemed to really like Timberwolf Southwest Chicken and Herbs and Nature's Variety (raw). Those were the only two he just dove right into.


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## ECudmore (Jun 5, 2007)

*kibble*

I feed Racquet chicken based kibble from Three Dog Bakery, all nautral, filled with blueberries, vitiamins, no fillers, etc. You can read about their formula on the web and order via their web-site if you do not have a store near you.

Elayne and Racquet


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Jane, I can help you get any of the Fromm products. Even though the web site doesn't list the Los Altos store carrying the Fromm's Adult Gold, they are very nice over there and I'm sure they would order it for you, but there may be a hitch if you want a smaller bag (because they have to order a case). I can talk to you off the board about it.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

DanielBMe said:


> I think if you stick with foods like Natura (Innova/Evo/California Natural etc), Timberwolf, Solid Gold, Natures Variety, Orijen, Wellness etc you pretty well can't go wrong. These are all high quality foods.


Except that after all the recalls of 2007, I tend to lean towards the reasoning of the Whole Dog Journal and would avoid Timberwolf and Solid Gold if they wouldn't disclose the source of their food or where their food is made. Wellness and Nature's Variety continue to get high marks from a variety of critics though.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Daniel,

Its hard to find a pet food that doesn't have atleast ONE questionable ingredient, I've done a bit of research on it, and the frustrating thing has been that one side says it bad, while there's always another side that sings the praises of chicken fat for its amino acids and think it has a nutritious benefit.. 

I did like the Fromms' but I'm pretty sure the one we used had Sweet potato..too bad Gucci wouldn't eat it. 

And I do have a problem with companies that refuse to disclose their sources, that's just shady to me.

Kara


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Fromm's Chicken a la Veg does have sweet potatoes.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

When I first got Milo I started him on Timberwolf as suggested by his breeder. I had to drive over 30 miles to get it and I bought two different varieties to be sure I was getting him the right thing. After days of his not touching it I switched to the Fromm's and he's been happy ever since.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> Its hard to find a pet food that doesn't have atleast ONE questionable ingredient
> Kara


I totally agree, Kara! That is why I'm spending too much time on the Internet looking at food ingredient labels and going crazy. I've been looking at the WDJ recommendations for 2007 and 2008 and the site that DanielBMe suggested (the editors give detailed reasons for why they do/don't like a particular food and give it a star rating). Then, having narrowed that list down, I prefer chicken, Lincs can't have sweet potatoes, I personally don't like certain ingredients (beet pulp, etc.), I do want pre/probiotics, and need to be able to buy the food locally....:faint:

And then, my dogs have to like it enough to actually EAT it!

Between our pickiness (mine and theirs), this might turn out to be an impossible task!

So far, my short list (in no particular order) includes:
1. Fromm's Adult Gold - might be difficult to get locally
1. Artemis Fresh Mix Adult
2. Canidae All Life Stages Forumla (higher in cals, but it has papaya in it - maybe it will deter Scout from eating Lincoln's poop??)
3. Merrick Turducken (no fish, so no potential ethoxyquin)
4. Natural Balance Organic or Ultra Premium
5. Premium Edge Chicken, Rice and Veg (although it has been criticized for being potentially grain-heavy)

Maybe at this point, I should make an emotional decision based on the color of the packaging. Ha ha! :biggrin1:


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

LOL!!! You wouldn't be the first to do that, Jane!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Jane,

You are too cute! LOL, And yes......it is one big headache sifting through all the mudslinging these companies do towards one another..

But..

_3. Merrick Turducken (no fish, so no potential ethoxyquin)_

Who said fish is the only thing that contains ethoxyquin? I thought that came from most rendering plants? LOL!! SEE what I mean? Confusing!

But, a big factor for me is Gucci actually 'eating' it, ya know? It seems like whatever *I* like, she thinks is dogcrap. ound:

Kara


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Buuuuuuuut, some dogs find dog crap to be very tastey, Kara!


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> Daniel,
> 
> Its hard to find a pet food that doesn't have atleast ONE questionable ingredient, I've done a bit of research on it, and the frustrating thing has been that one side says it bad, while there's always another side that sings the praises of chicken fat for its amino acids and think it has a nutritious benefit..
> 
> ...


I agree! I think the isue with the poultry fat is that it's not listed as chicken fat but poultry.

Jane, maybe you should give raw a try. My guys love it and I just got my friends Maltese to switch to raw as well and he's the pickiest of eaters. He loves the Nature's Variety Medallions. That way you don't have to worry beet pulp or sweet potatos.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Thumperlove said:


> Jane,
> 
> You are too cute! LOL, And yes......it is one big headache sifting through all the mudslinging these companies do towards one another..
> 
> ...


Well it is a very common preservative found in fish so it will more than likely be the main source. I guess if the fish is rendered in the same place as say chicken then you could have cross contamination.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Hi Daniel,

I have pondered the raw/not raw question in the past and decided against it, only because of the potential risk of salmonella/ecoli. I have kids in the house and my dogs are big KISSERS...not a healthy combo. I know a breeder in so. cal though whose dogs are healthy with amazing coats who are fed exclusively raw - I can't argue with the health benefits! 

I did homecooking for a few months too after the melamine scare. It was a ton of work. My family wondered why I could make dog meatloaf but couldn't manage to get their dinner on the table many nights a week ound:

In the end, I decided what works best for my lifestyle is a combo of kibble with added fresh ingredients. I believe that whole foods are better nutritionally. It is tricky to get all the supplementation correct if you do 100% homecooking - it just made me too nervous that I was going to create a deficiency in their diet. Also, the kibble is better for their dental health - they had way more tartar buildup on the homecooking alone. 

Thanks again for the link to that site - it is very informative!


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi Jane,

I was like you when I first contemplated switching from kibble to raw for Beamer. I was worried about contamination and all that stuff. So I used to wash beamers beard and mouth after every feeding and yada yada yada.. lol I was also worried about him licking us and if his mouth touched something yada yada yada...

Well its been 4 months since hes been on Raw and I do not take any of those old percautions any longer, just because we are all so used to the raw now and nothing has ever happend. It was just to much work to worry all the time.. I now feed him the beef necks and chicken necks to after hearing Daniel started it with his guys. I never though i'd do that either, but I do..lol... Just toss him the necks on a big beach towel and he goes to town on them and rarely tries to take it off. (he has acouople times and dropped it on the floor, but I just pick it up and throw it back on the towel and wash the are of the floor it was on.. no big whoop! 

Derek and Radar came by today.. I gave him some raw to take home to try.. (the raw nation is getting bigger!!  )

Ryan


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

We switched back to ProPlan after being on the fancy "top quality" ingredient, high end dog food. Our second farm dog to live 17 years made it well into her 17th year after being fed ProPlan for a number of years.

We were asked to have our dogs take part in a Vitamin D study which was looking at maybe toy dogs not being in the sun enough to generate their own vitamin D with the theory being that there was an increase in cancer because the dogs rarely went outside and weren't exposed to the sun.

Our dogs are very used to going for a blood draw for any tests that come up. We have three different vets we use for different things with the dogs, not including special testing vets or vets for the horses. One is especially good at doing blood draws. Any of our pack is glad to show up at this vets because when doing the SA320 complete blood panel tests they know they get to go to a fast food place and eat hamburger.

Anyway, with cancer being on the increase in dogs in general, including toy dogs-although I haven't really heard of it much in Havanese, the scientists, who knew we have 5 generations on hand and were co-operative in any health testing, asked if we could send blood samples of our dogs, how much time they spent outside each day, and a number of other questions. 

It turns out that our dogs, who have free choice to going outside, spend probably more time outside than the average toy dogs. We weren't worried about being low in Vitamin D-especially feeding the best quality food we could find-or so we thought.

All our dogs were found to be low on Vitamin D. Now no one can tell us exactly the effect of vitamin D, or what even being "low" on it means other than the levels found in their blood was below recommended levels. Maybe some of you remember Dr. Linus Pauling and his theories about vitamin C and cancer. The vitamin D theory brings back memories of that but maybe there's something to it. Interestingly, the dark dogs had less vitamin D than the lighter colored dogs. It turns out that the sun can get through light colored skin easier than dark to help the body generate it's own vitamin D. Needless to say, we were very dissappointed to find out that our dogs were low in anything.

As many scientific tests go they found some things that they didn't look for and no answers to the dogs staying in the house all the time versus being out in the sun question.

Any dogs in the study who were on Purina ProPlan did not have low vitamin D. We have had such good success with it over the years that we immediately switched back. We all want to do the best for our dogs and can easily succumb to all the advertising and read endless food labels but we were just blindsided by the vitamin D thing. I'm sure it's just an oversight by the food company that we had been feeding for a while, but there was no such oversight from Purina. Such an oversight is unacceptable to me.

Purina has their own kennel of 500 dogs which are always being tested. They should have much more money to spend on such testing than the small designer label dog foods. I know there are all sorts of theories about dogs not being able to eat this or that and all the fancy spiels about the special diets but for now we are back on ProPlan. Our puppies have always been on ProPlan Puppy and done just fine.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Tom- That is really interesting!!! both my dogs came to me eating pro plan-- and I switched them each for one reason or another including fear of recall-- but lastly because Cash was eating his "dog crap" (yes kimberly and kara some dogs do find it a delacacy) well switching from pro plan did stop the nasty habbit for a while but now he does do it again. food for thought

Anyway Jane, I use the raw medallions but I cook them and add greenbeans and potatoes-- it's not quite home made but sort of-- it's pretty easy and they seem to thrive on it.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

I feed Biscuit 1/2 Innova Evo chicken kibble and 1/2 Royal Canin #26 (the coat health formula). He is very allergic and this combo works for him. He looks very healthy, his stools are perfect, and his coat is beautiful. I know Royal Canin is questionable, but I'm afraid to switch and rock the boat.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

we're a wellness family as well, chicken and sweet potatoe. my pup was on duck for a long time and the groomer mentioned to me that it seemed like he was itchy from the inside out and to switch his food,m did that , welllness and he's a new dog. he doesn't like the canned version of this for some reason.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

Jane, I sure understand your confusion. I'll admit I'm tempted at times to go back to Purina. They've been around forever and we had a Dachshund that lived to be a healthy 17 years old on plain old-fashioned Purina Dog Chow. 
After I posted about the Taste of the Wild I noticed it does, indeed, have sweet potato in it. Not sure about the clay. I'll try to find out more about it. You have to wonder about all of us looking so closely at ingredients for our animals whose preferred diet might be cat poop and water from the garden hose.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

i think the key is to keep it as natural as possible


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Beamer said:


> Hi Jane,
> 
> I was like you when I first contemplated switching from kibble to raw for Beamer. I was worried about contamination and all that stuff. So I used to wash beamers beard and mouth after every feeding and yada yada yada.. lol I was also worried about him licking us and if his mouth touched something yada yada yada...
> 
> ...


I think the key here is to ensure your use proper safety when handling the food. I always wash my hands and any utensils properly. If food drops on the floor from the blanket I feed them on, then I use my Lysol Kitchen Spray to wipe it down. I certainly don't let my guys kiss me right after eating, but after a couple of hours no problem. They kiss my hands, feet, checks etc so I don't mind. I also brush their teetch twice a week.

But I can understand wanting to play it safe when you have children to consider. Thankfully Tollden uses Apple Cider Vinegar in their food which helps to kill the bacteria.

I recently read an article about the difference in health in dogs from the US and Australia. Many of the dog diseases here have a very low incidence rate in Australia. It seems that in Australia the prime method of feeding dogs is still raw. However they have found an increase in some of the diseases with the rise in dry kibble. It was a very interesting read.


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## elregalohavanese (Jun 20, 2007)

*foods*

Our dog with allergies does great on Purina Pro Selects lamb and oatmeal. Available at petsmart.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Tom, that study is really interesting! Thank you for taking the time to tell us all about it. I will add vitamin D to my list of important things to look for in a food I am considering. Hopefully living in sunny California, my boys are getting enough D, but I do have one black Hav  

Missy, thanks for reminding me about the raw medallions that you can cook. I am thinking though I need to find a kibble to make it feasible for my mom to dogsit my boys while I go on vacation. I'm sure my boys would LOVE those medallions, though!


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

mckennasedona said:


> Jane, I sure understand your confusion. I'll admit I'm tempted at times to go back to Purina. They've been around forever and we had a Dachshund that lived to be a healthy 17 years old on plain old-fashioned Purina Dog Chow.


I know - sometimes it is hard to maintain perspective on all this! Our Lhasa apso lived until 17 also and died essentially of old age. She hated kibble - ate maybe 5 pieces of it a day and lived on table scraps.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

The ProPlan gave Gucci terrible tear staining and loose stools, and then I'd read some bad stuff about it so we'd switched off it.

But like everyone else, each dog responds differently to each food.

I do give Gucci supplements, though..Vit. D being one of them. That's really interesting, Tom..thanks for posting.

Jane, You should just flip a coin at this point! lol 

Kara


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Well, I was a little concerned when I learned Solid Gold wasn't on the Whole Dog Journal list, so I e-mailed them about where their food is sourced. Their website says that all food is processed in the U.S., but I wanted to make sure no food was from China. Here's the response I received which does make me feel better, since Maddie is on the Solid Gold Hund-n-Flocken (lamb & rice). 

"Thank you for your interest in our foods,

The lamb in the dry Hund n flocken, Hundchen flocken and Katz n flcoken comes from New Zealand and is hormone free and free range. All of the meats for the canned and other dry foods are also free range and hormone free and are from US sources. Fish are wild caught, not farmed. The meal designation simply means that the water is removed before being incorporated into the food. The meals that we use are from primary production, as opposed to secondary production (by-products). Were a meal to contain by-products, it would have to be called "by-product meal". 

The grains are all grown and processed in the US and the grains carry a USDA grade I and II certification, which means they are suitable for human consumption. The potato protein used in the Katz n flocken and Barking at the moon comes from Germany where it is grown and produced. The Blended tuna made for us is made by a human cannery located in Thailand. 

Our foods contain no artificial preservatives such as BHA, BHT and ethoxyquin. 

The ingredients are human grade, but because they are processed in an animal facility, we cannot make a human grade claim on the bag. 

We don’t use any corn wheat or soy in any of our products.

Furthermore, all these ingredients are also fit for human consumption. We do not use any animal feed grade ingredients in our products. The ingredients in our foods are the same ingredients that go into the foods we eat.

I routinely test the finished product randomly for various quality assurance checks, in addition to the testing done at the mill pre and post production.

We responded to the Whole Dog Journal’s questionnaire, however they did not include us in this Feb’s issue because they said they never received a sample bag of food. We submitted this to them again and they have told us that there will be an inclusion in the March issue.

Best regards,

Elisabeth Mulvany

Solid Gold"


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Jeanne, thanks for sharing that info from Solid Gold - that is a relief! 

Kara, I'm in the process of spreadsheeting the ingredients for my top few choices. Crazy, yes. But by doing that, it is easier for me to make the comparisons. I've ruled out Canidae through that process - it doesn't have any veggies or fruits (except Papaya, which I actually like for the anti-poop eating properties), and no trace minerals that I can see (copper, iron, manganese). It is also 20% higher in calories than the other foods.

I'm leaning towards Fromm's Adult Gold - it is most similar to the Wellness Super5 that Lincoln was thriving on. I will find out this week if my local pet store can do a special order on it for me. Otherwise, I will have to try something else...


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Jane,
You're such a good Hav-mommy! I'm so glad that Lincoln is doing better and is ready to try a new food! I was just about to write that my guys didn't care for the taste of the Canidae when I saw that it had been booted from your choices.

I'm feeding NV Instincts kibble right now. They push rotating the different "flavors" of the product.

A professor that I know, that is also a great dog behaviorist sent me this link. It's really long and complicated, but she felt it was "interesting, comprehensive and thoroughly researched" so I thought I would pass it on. Jane....save this one for later!
http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/784/Patrick06.html

This maybe wasn't the most appropriate place to post this link. She felt it was a good read for anyone who is currently feeding a dog.

:focus: Good luck Jane!

Beverly


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Jane said:


> Jeanne, thanks for sharing that info from Solid Gold - that is a relief!
> 
> Jeanne,
> YES, thank you for posting that information....as I am reading all this I am starting to panick thinking I am going to have to find a new food for Missy. I have read alot on Solid Gold and the seem to be on the up and up to only having wholesome ingredients. But I will have to look for the March addition of the Whole Dog journel 2008.
> ...


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## Lola (Mar 22, 2007)

If there is anyone that has a dog with liver problems, could you please share what kind of kibble you feed you dog. I feed Maggie Hills Prescription l/d kibble. I am wondering if there is anything else available. My vet recommends Hills or Royan Canin. But the Royal Canin did not work for Maggie.


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## Squirt (Oct 10, 2007)

This thread is a fascinating read. I had been feeding Nature's Variety raw, but was concerned about the high protein in our smaller than average hav. Plus I wanted a kibble for convenience when traveling.

I switched to Solid Gold Wee Bits. She ate it only sporadically so I mixed in some Pedigree wet food with it (because we had it in the cupboard) and she ate it better but still only sporadically. She would lick the wet food off and leave the kibble laying on the floor. LOL

Yesterday I bought some canned Organix which I have mixed with the kibble twice, and she has inhaled it each time. She licks the bowl, then keeps going back to see if there is more.

Organix canned is four star rated at www.dogfoodanalysis.com. I don't have access to the journal mentioned above, I am wondering how it rated in their article.


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

BeverlyA said:


> Jane,
> You're such a good Hav-mommy! I'm so glad that Lincoln is doing better and is ready to try a new food! I was just about to write that my guys didn't care for the taste of the Canidae when I saw that it had been booted from your choices.
> 
> I'm feeding NV Instincts kibble right now. They push rotating the different "flavors" of the product.
> ...


Wow! That link was such a good read. That's probably the best and most informative reading I've seen on the pet food industry and what we feed our pets. I can only hope that everyone here reads it. Thanks for the link!


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

> This thread is a fascinating read. I had been feeding Nature's Variety raw, but was concerned about the high protein in our smaller than average hav. Plus I wanted a kibble for convenience when traveling.


If anything the protein from raw is a much higher quality of protein and thus far more nutritious than any protein you will get from a kibble.

This quote is from a line posted a few posts earlier.



> One example of AAFCO's tinkering is the reduction in the amount of recommended protein from 22% to 18% for adult maintenance in dogs.[82] Considering that protein is among the most expensive ingredients in pet foods, it's worth questioning AAFCO's motivation behind these "practical" alterations. According to a veterinarian within CVM, "the formulation [testing] method does not account for...the availability of nutrients."[83] Meaning, that although the formulation physically contains protein, the testing does not ensure that such protein is digestible (and therefore available) by your pet.


It's a shame the pet food industry has everyone believing that high protein is bad so they can keep their profits.


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Peg,

NV also has freeze dried raw as well, so its just as easy as kibble if your traveling or whatever... Just have to make sure you give your Squirt plenty of water! 

Ryan


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

I'm so glad someone started this thread. I'm constantly questioning what's the best food. Currently I'm feeding EVO because of the higher calorie content - MeMe's on the thin side. I'd like to see more shine on the coat - Kimberly do you think the Fromms Salmon is what is giving the shine? Would a Salmon Oil supplement help?


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Me&2Girls said:


> I'm so glad someone started this thread. I'm constantly questioning what's the best food. Currently I'm feeding EVO because of the higher calorie content - MeMe's on the thin side. I'd like to see more shine on the coat - Kimberly do you think the Fromms Salmon is what is giving the shine? Would a Salmon Oil supplement help?


The best food would be raw but if you are talking about kibble, Evo is great. You can definitely add a supplement. You should check out this site for supplements. http://www.animalwellness.ca/.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

I forgot one other question - how much time on one brand of food before you see the benefits or lack there of? A month? One six pound bag?


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## DanielBMe (Nov 25, 2007)

Me&2Girls said:


> I forgot one other question - how much time on one brand of food before you see the benefits or lack there of? A month? One six pound bag?


I think that's a hard question. Depends on what you are looking for. If you are talking about hair, then I don't think you'll see a change for at least a month. I would say somewhere between 1-3 months as different dogs respond differently. It also depends on how long your Hav was on their previous food as it will need to make it's way out of it's system.


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## lolabellblue (Sep 25, 2007)

I'm feeding both dogs EVO red meat and they seem to like it. I have them on Salmon oil as well when I can remember it! I tried the Fromm's Salmon A la Veg and they weren't too crazy about it. Buzzy would sometimes eat it, but my other dog Holly would turn her nose up at it every time.


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