# Agilty Questions & Answers - Please Post!



## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I am interested in Agility, but have a few questions: 

What is the proper age to start agility?

If you take lessons in agility, how are you going to practice?

How do you go about keeping up with agility fun without competing? 

Linda


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## margaretandluigi (Mar 12, 2008)

You can start a puppy as young as 5 weeks in "agility" - i.e., in the obedience, ground work and just general LEARNING that is needed. For formal training on equipment, I would wait until at least 4 to 6 months (and that means really low equipment - like a board over a piece of PVC). I would not start formal classes until 6 months (do socialization and obedience up to then - and for that matter after then!). And even then, only take formal classes with someone who knows how to train puppies. I would not start jumping a dog until a year old (or when the growth plates are closed). 

I take lessons but I also practice at home with a variety of homemade equipment, some of which is closer to spec than others. I bought a play tunnel from Toys R Us and my dogs love it. I also have a regulation teeter, non regulation aframe and dog walk, weave poles and lots of jumps. (Only thing I'm really missing is a chute...) You can fashion most agility equipment (especially for small dogs) out of PVC. And if you really just wnat to play around, you can use a lot of household items. A broom stick over two bricks makes a jump. (Just make sure the pole can fall if the dog hits it.)

If you want to play but not compete, you can goof around in your back yard or at the park as well as taking formal classes. But be warned - Most people who say that they never want to compete eventually get bit by the competition bug...


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## AgilityHav (Aug 20, 2007)

What Margaret says is right on!

I start my puppies in agility as soon as they can walk! I get toy tunnels and "wobble boards" for them that help get them used to movement and sounds. As soon as their shots are compleate they are in a puppy obediance class, and as soon as they have consistant sits, downs, and stays I start them in formal agility classes. It is reccomended to not jump dogs at full hieght(which is generally 8 or 12 inches for a hav) until they are 2 years old. I start with bars laying on the ground as soon as the puppy is used to working on a leash.

For puppies, great things to work on before official classes are hand touches, turns, and other types of ground work. I am more than willing to go into more detail if you would like.

Most dog training clubs will offer agility classes specifically for puppies between 6 and 12 months.

For home practice, you can buy any thing you need, or make it out of PVC...The only thing that I reccomend everyone have at home is weavs, as they take the longest to learn for most dogs. A lot of ground work can be done at home too, and is often just as important as the courses and obsticals.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

AgilityHav said:


> What Margaret says is right on!
> 
> For home practice, you can buy any thing you need, or make it out of PVC...The only thing that I reccomend everyone have at home is weavs, as they take the longest to learn for most dogs. A lot of ground work can be done at home too, and is often just as important as the courses and obsticals.


I have read that a dog shouldn't do weaves until they are close to a year also. Do you start them earlier?

Kodi is 5 months, and we've been doing obedience classes for a while. They know I want to do agility with him, and they are very good about helping me work on specific things that will help him later. (Like being VERY clear that there is a difference between a sit-stay and a down-stay<g>) We have a kiddie tunnel that he LOVES, poles on the ground, a sort-of A-frame (two wide boards propped up securely in the middle, and not high enough to worry about him falling off of) and a ladder on the ground that we use to teach him where his back feet are.<g> I would like to get weave poles for him, but I want to wait until we start them in class... right now, I wouldn't have a clue what to do with them.

We spend most of our training time on basic obedience stuff, but he LOVES playing on our little agility course. Out there, I spend time making sure I can send him over obstacles on either side, and we're starting to work on stopping with two feet on and two feet off at the bottom of our "A frame".


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I see in the future, if not sooner................more money being spent! I have searched on the internet for homemade agility equipment and it is out there. 

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......wonder, how much a tunnel costs? I want to do something outside fun with Dexter. 

Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....I sure am glad, I pay the bills now. Let me see if I can locate those links for agility equipment.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Here's the web address for the play tunnels I bought:

http://www.tinkertots.com/finplaytun.html

They are about $32 each.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I took a puppy class with Dash and while at the time, I thought it was a waste, later I have learned how helpful it is as it was all about body language with you and your dog. There are also tons of people that take agility lessons at my club with a great trainer that only do it for fun and have never competed. But I think competitions are a great way to measure your progress and they are fun too.

I agree with making your own equipment for at home or being creative. You can go to lowes and get pvc pipe and a cutter for it for $20 and have a few jumps. While they don't last as long (I have a few that are 3-5 years old but starting to break down as it isn't outdoor pvc pipe and it rains a lot here) it is enough to get you started.

I used weaves with Dash as a puppy just completely open so he was just running through them. Here is Dash at about 9 months old. He did a few 4'' jumps, open weaves, little kids tunnels, etc. We just started in on sequencing.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi Amanda,

Did you make your weaves too? Where did you get directions for those? Did you get guide wires as he got older?

For the time being, my "jumps" are just horse poles with a (horse jump) cavaletti block set at each end to mark it like standards. The poles are 4" PVC, so I didn't want anything any higher than that anyway.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Oh! This is going to be fun! When just starting off, 

1. What do you think would be the 1st bit of equipment to try first? 

Dexter loves to run and jump, he knows the word "jump" "up" "this way." I taught Dexter the "jump" command to get into the car.

2. Are the tunnels pretty stable? Do you need to secure them, so they do not move? 

Oh! Dexter is really curious about drainage pipes when out during our walks! I would think this would be fun to teach.


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## margaretandluigi (Mar 12, 2008)

I think the piece of equipment that the dogs love the best is the tunnel. Its easy to teach and great fun. Plus its a huge bonus when running a course to be able to send your dog to a tunnel. (Cuts down on how far YOU have to run!) 

I like teaching weaves using channels. I have a lot of friends who have tried the two-by-two method, but I haven't tried that yet. Maybe with the next dog...


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Karen- I bought a set of 6 but then made a set of six. Here is the ones I bought and then copied (pretty easy) But seriously buy the pvc cutter for like $12 cause it saves your hand 

https://www.affordableagility.com/weaveschannel.htm

I never used wires cause I didn't have them (Dasher's mom is too poor for wires so he never got used to them lol!) I am still going to get a nice set of weaves, I just haven't committed to which ones but they were suppose to be my birthday present. I am thinking about the 2x2's too!

I have a bunch of little tunnels that I got from toys r us and rummage sales, etc. I really think use what you have at home first especially with jumps, etc. I used to use folded up beach chair as my table, etc. The dogs still get the idea


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

What types of things are best for a beginner dog to know? I mean before they even start on equipment? I have a rescue dog that I'm considering trying agility with but feel it could be a ways off for her. She will need her sit-stay, down-stay and also to be more comfortable with odd noises and situations. She's pretty jumpy still but so competetive! What else should I be working on for now?


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## margaretandluigi (Mar 12, 2008)

Sit and stay are MUSTS. Down is an almost must. The most important thing is that your dog can work off leash (hopefully with distractions). I teach my dogs to heel both on my left and my right. (I do not insist on a picture perfect obedience heel but rather anything that is the dog keeping pace with me in the same direction relatively close.) I also teach a lot of the rally turns (with side switches). This is all called "flat" work and it basically teaches the dog to move with you and respond to your cues and motion for direction. 

In the early stages of training you also want to get your dog used to walking on narrow surfaces (9 to 12 inches wide) and on things that moves (a board over PVC works great). Teaching them to walk through a ladder teached rear end awareness. (Surprising, many non-performance dogs have no clear where their back legs are or what they are doing.)

I also work on getting dogs into a variety of situations and around a variety of people. 

And whatever you do, train your dog to behave (and REST) in a crate. So many people wonder why their dog is only good for one run a day at a trial. Its b/c the dog never rests in its crate, being in a heightened level of stimulation all day or worse yet it is actively barking, whining, or trying to get out.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Thank you! We have the crate thing down well and she walks out along the brick border around the lawn to potty--so she can stay on a narrow line lol! The rest is plenty to work on for now! Those are some good suggestions especially about the back leg awareness.



margaretandluigi said:


> Sit and stay are MUSTS. Down is an almost must. The most important thing is that your dog can work off leash (hopefully with distractions). I teach my dogs to heel both on my left and my right. (I do not insist on a picture perfect obedience heel but rather anything that is the dog keeping pace with me in the same direction relatively close.) I also teach a lot of the rally turns (with side switches). This is all called "flat" work and it basically teaches the dog to move with you and respond to your cues and motion for direction.
> 
> In the early stages of training you also want to get your dog used to walking on narrow surfaces (9 to 12 inches wide) and on things that moves (a board over PVC works great). Teaching them to walk through a ladder teached rear end awareness. (Surprising, many non-performance dogs have no clear where their back legs are or what they are doing.)
> 
> ...


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Any Agility Books for beginners that are recommended?


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I found all kinds of links for Agility equipment that you can make:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4466287_build-tire-jump.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_4464204_train-dog-perform-tire-jump.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_4807423_inexpensive-agility-equipment.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_4432109_teach-agility-dog-weave-pole.html
http://www.ehow.com/video_4502039_build-backyard-agility-course.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_4464840_train-dog-chute-tunnel.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_2212975_teach-dog-focus-attention-agility.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_4466287_build-tire-jump.html

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/REAGIL.pdf


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I think I am going for a tunnel first and then just use some stuff around the yard to make a few little jumps and walking boards.


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## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

good buddy said:


> Thank you! We have the crate thing down well and she walks out along the brick border around the lawn to potty--so she can stay on a narrow line lol! The rest is plenty to work on for now! Those are some good suggestions especially about the back leg awareness.


Yah getting a plank for them to walk on is really good. I used a board to teach contacts, and teeter. You may be surprised how they can get goofy about putting a toe on a board...so it's a gradual introduction with clicker and treats.

and crate training...well my border collie is fabulous in his crate at home. we do the SG crate games etc...and he travels in his crate, but put him in a trial setting and well, let's just say all that goes out the window :wink:

angela


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## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

HavaneseSoon said:


> Any Agility Books for beginners that are recommended?


I recommend the video success with one jump to start a dog that is old enough to jump.

Amazon.com: Success with One Jump: Susan Garrett: Movies & TV

[http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=521


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I do have a question about jumping......Dexter jumps all the time, when he wants to....I can't stop him from jumping when he is going to jump. 

What is it about Agility jumping that you have to be a certain age? I know about the growth plates and stuff....Dexter still jumps. I can't stop him. 

Your thoughts....


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

HavaneseSoon said:


> I do have a question about jumping......Dexter jumps all the time, when he wants to....I can't stop him from jumping when he is going to jump.
> 
> What is it about Agility jumping that you have to be a certain age? I know about the growth plates and stuff....Dexter still jumps. I can't stop him.
> 
> Your thoughts....


Linda, I know it can be hard to stop one from jumping if that's something they love to do, but until those growth plates have closed you don't want to encourage jumping. If Dexter damages a growth plate it can cause the leg to grow unevenly and it can curve or twist. Then he wouldn't be a good candidate for agility! 

In agility you are pushing your dog to jump higher and faster and if they have that competetive spirit they will push themselves hard! You could pracice with lots of other things that are safer for now, even just training him to run alongside you or circle the yard at your command.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Here are some equipment links that I've found useful:

http://www.clipandgoagility.com/acc...equipment/three-quarter-inch-clip-on-cups.htm

http://www.identi-tape.com/vinylthree.htm

http://www.agilityzone.com/store/agora.cgi

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/pvc.shtml

http://www.affordableagility.com/

http://www.ntiglobal.com/

Those were in my Favorites file. Some are just for design ideas. PVC pipe and fittings are cheap at Lowes and Home Depot. NTI has the best prices we've found on competition type tunnels. Colored electricians tape is sold in Lowes and Home Depot too as well as corrugated drain pipe for "tire jumps".

We have a set of poles with the wires and they work okay but one problem we see with people doing agility with Havanese is that they tend to always have the same speed through the poles (slow) that they learn to start with. The wires are slow to start with. I built a set of "weave-a-matics" with the slip fittings from that greenhouse link. They work better than the wires but I think the angled poles are better for larger dogs. We think the channels are the way to go for Havanese since the dog can go through fast even to start with and you just gradually slide them in-they stay vertical regardless of position. The dog can see straight through to start with which helps a lot.

For A-frames, I finally decided that fixed angle ones were simplest to build and easiest to move. I just made several sizes that work up to the full scale one. That system works fine if you have plenty of room but I guess if space is limited the folding ones would be better. I don't think it cost more than a few hundred dollars to build all the equipment.

Havanese only have to jump 8" which is really next to nothing for them.

We're new to it but the dogs love it.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

As to jumping, I try to keep it reasonable. At a trial your dog in novice jumps about 10-20 jumps at a trial. But in class for an hour a lot more. Usually in class I run my dogs at 4 inches since they are running for so long. I have never had an issue with them knocking bars so I don't worry about it. 

I agree with Christy. I find that each of my dogs push themselves. They just get the bug and can run even faster than they normally would. Get adrenaline push like people who compete in sports.

Just to correct what Tom said- that isn't a set rule. in case your Hav is taller or you do different venues... In AKC, if your dog is under 11 inches, he/she would jump 8 inches. They are very serious as to the measuring and wicket your dog 3 times before you get your permanent jump height card and your dog has to be over 24 months before you can even begin the process. I know there are a lot of Havs that are right on the edge of this.

USDAA, it is 12 inches for under 12. You can elect to do a preferred of 8 inches.

So keep that in mind


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## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

Susan Garrett shares her thoughts on early training...

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2009/10/just-because-they-can-doesnt-make-it-right.html

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2009/10/while-waiting-until-he-grows-up.html

http://www.clickerdogs.com/perfectrecall.htm


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## Metchosin (Jun 29, 2009)

In our agility class last week, our trainer talked about working on 'drive'. Her dogs love tug toys and that's what she uses. My dog, Tucker will tug at home, but it's not his favorite thing to do. My trainer says you can build drive, even in low drive dogs. So, out I went and bought 2 toys. Tucker will play with one of them, a bit. The other one is tough nylon and he doesn't like it one bit. 
So....does anyone have any suggestions on how to build 'drive' in a fairly timid dog? He loves his agility runs, but is not very fast. I'm hoping you'll have some ideas for me

ps: She also suggested using a crate between runs, but my velcro dog is not ready for that. I got out his crate and we worked on it a bit the last few days. But, he hates his crate. I didn't realize how important it was to keep up with crate training. Bad move on my part. But, I'll see if I can turn that one around.


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## margaretandluigi (Mar 12, 2008)

For the crate, get Susan Garrett's book or DVD called Crate Games. If you practice what she teaches (and have patience) you will end up with a dog that loves their crate. This will help you in class because your dog will be able to relax between runs rather than being anxious about what you, all the handlers and other dogs are doing. They laugh at Desilu at class b/c he looks DEAD between runs. He just flops over int he xpen and goes to sleep. But when its his turn, all I have to do is call his name and he pops up ready to go. A couple of quick stretches and he's wide awake. But he's also been going to shows since he was eight weeks old, and I think my older dogs taught him how to just hang out.

For the toy drive, get an old sock and fill it cut up hotdogs. At first, roll the end down and just let him stick his nose in and grab a few. Then ask him to tug a bit, then let him take a few more. Pretty quick the sock gets disgusting and smelly and alot more fun to play with. When teaching tugging, always start and end on YOUR terms. (My friend teaches "for you" and "for me" cueing the dog in to whether its HIS sock or HERS. I just teach my dogs to drop ANYTHING on command and it works when tugging to.) Clean Run sells special toys designed to encourage tugging if the sock does not work.


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## Metchosin (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks for the advice! I'm printing it off as I type.
I went to several stores to buy tug toys but your suggestion is so much more fun! Can't wait to get that sock all smelly! Plus, when we go to our agility barn, I won't mind throwing it on the ground
Also, I went online to see Susan Garret's site. I ended up buying the dvd as well as Ruff Love and Shaping Success! Pretty good shopping, ay?

Can I please ask one more question? I am using a hard sided crate. I took Tucker on a plane trip this summer with it and it was perfect for that. But, I'm wondering if a larger one, or a soft sided taller one might be better? Do you have any preferences for crates? Thank you!
Sharon (in very rainy Metchosin)


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## margaretandluigi (Mar 12, 2008)

Crate choice depends on the dog. I prefer wire crates in the house, but one of my dogs is in a hard plastic one. If I keep him in a wire one, he fights with one of my other dogs who stupidly sticks his nose in. 

At shows I also prefer the wire one. I think that the dogs get more air in them and they are easier to travel with than the plastic ones. (But they are HEAVY.) At class I use a pop up mesh one for Bruce. Desilu has to be in a wire crate since he knows how to unzip the mesh ones. I've seen a lot of dogs escape from these which is not only dangerous but also can get expensive if they tear out of them. 

I'm guessing your airline aproved crate is probably a tight fit. If you want him to be confortable, I'd probably go with something bigger. He should at a minimum be able to stand up straight, turn around, and lay down stretched out.


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## Metchosin (Jun 29, 2009)

Thank you. 
On Susan Garrett's website, I kind of liked the look of the wire crates. I'll have a look for them this week. My car is not super roomy so hopefully the crate will fold up. 

(I have a harness with seatbelt for car travel.....another problem for my dog. He drools and pants on car rides. That's when the crate aversion really started as I thought maybe he'd prefer to be in a crate when we head off in the car. Not so!)


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## Metchosin (Jun 29, 2009)

We now have a wiener sock. It's a big hit! I can almost feel a tug coming on! Thanks again for the tip. I'm taking it to class this week and I'll see if I can get some play happening between runs.


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