# Growling at Kids



## dschles

Scout is 7 months old and very social with dogs and people. However, there is one situation where he is growling at our kids (ages 8 and10) -- he growls at them when he is sitting on the sofa and they pick him up. He is fine with me or my husband picking him up when he is on the sofa, but he growls at the kids if they do the same. I have told the kids to give him a loud NO when he does that (and to praise him when he is good with them on the sofa).

But, I am looking for thoughts on what else we should be doing to nip this growling in the bud...


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## havapuppy

Molly has this issue - I think it has something to do with trust as well as fear. She used to be very growly with our 10 year old daughter - she's gotten a lot better. She still does this when she's on the couch and doesn't want to be moved. We'll put a leash on her and make her get up and off the couch - that way, no one gets hurt! I'm not sure what to do to get them to stop the growling though! She has gotten better over time though - she's 20 months old.


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## lfung5

My Freddie has been doing this since he was a puppy. He would never hurt a fly, but is a big grump. If he is resting in a spot, has his place on the bed, couch or car seat and you touch or nudge him, he will growl and walk away. He does it to me, the other dogs, everyone. He does it in a grumpy way. If he is sleeping next to me and I move and touch him with my foot he grumbles and walks away. I guess its more of a grumbily growl, but it scares people. He will be 2 in Novemeber and it has not escalated into anything else.


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## Thumper

Gucci has done this too.

She USED to do it anyone that tried moving her or picking her up when she was sleeping, but now, she will let *me* and *hubby* pick her up, always.

I notice it only happens when she is asleep or resting, I am pretty much the same way though...I don't like anyone messing with me when I am asleep!

What I do (usually she is sleeping right next to me on the couch) and if one of the kids comes over to pick her up she growl/grumbles, I will immediately pick her up, put her ON her back and give a firm "NO".

But I also tell the kids to have some respect for her too and to let her sleep when she's tired.

What she has learned to do when my stepkids are here, is she will usually go in her Sherpa Bag to sleep instead of on the couch with me! lol I think this is her way of wanting to be left alone. It hasnt' happened in awhile, but she is getting alot better with kids picking her up in general, she won't growl when she's up and walking but would squirm and whimper  However, She was also *dropped* by my stepdaughters, too...so I'm sure that is why she is hesitant.

I try to ALWAYS be there when a child picks her up now, to reassure her that its okay and to make sure the child picks her up right. The only reason she was dropped in the first place was because the girls decided not to follow the rules.

Kara


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## chrismom

Wow, I am actually surprized to see several Havanese that do this. I have found this to be a non- typical Havanese behavior. One thing I would say, is cal the breeder about it. I wouldn't go pointing fingers or blaming them, it is not their responsibility for every action the dog has for life, but I think it would be good for them to know this. 
Our stud dog male is a very cocky out going type of dog, and he occasionally is more barky than most Havanese, so we keep that in mind if he is bred. I wouldn't want him bred to another cocky type dog- I always feel that that could maybe produce something that is tougher than Havanese in general.
I do know of one litter (of three)where the male was fairly aggresive, the one female was nice, but was spayed as a pet, and the other female was nice but fairly tough, and as she has gotten older she has become fairly dog aggressive. She was bred once- all puppies spayed/neutered, and now she is also spayed. Her owners felt that that is not good Havanese temperament.

As the breed is growing in numbers and popularity, breeders also need to be vigilant to protect the good Havanese temperament too. Yes, these dogs need training and behavioral help, but they also don't need to reproduce that either, and their breeders need to be aware of it too. So that they can make informed decisions in the future.

One thing I do really like about this breed is that they don't act like the typical toy breed. We need to keep it that way! Sounds like you guys are doing the right things.

I was at a show last weekend and a 10 week old min pin tried to eat my dog- thats crazy- you'd never get a Havanse doing that.

God luck with your dogs!


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## dotndani

The old addage let sleeping dogs lie really does apply to Duncan.Even at 5 months he doesn't want to be bothered when on the couch with a bone or a toy,but my 5 year old will most definitely push his buttons.He too growls at them,but then gets a firm NO!!!.He is getting better,but I keep telling my girls that THEY are the BOSS and not HIM!!!And they have to let him know that.Duncan sometimes gets a GOD complex that we have to keep reminding him that he is the low man on the totem pole in this house.
I've really gotten into wathcing the Dog Whisperer and since I think the man is fabulous I have tried to apply some of his techniques and they work,but consistency is the key.
I also am afraid that one day he may nip,so we try to be on top of him with his little attitude.
Any other suggestions???


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## Thumper

dotndani said:


> The old addage let sleeping dogs lie really does apply to Duncan.Even at 5 months he doesn't want to be bothered when on the couch with a bone or a toy,but my 5 year old will most definitely push his buttons.He too growls at them,but then gets a firm NO!!!.He is getting better,but I keep telling my girls that THEY are the BOSS and not HIM!!!And they have to let him know that.Duncan sometimes gets a GOD complex that we have to keep reminding him that he is the low man on the totem pole in this house.
> I've really gotten into wathcing the Dog Whisperer and since I think the man is fabulous I have tried to apply some of his techniques and they work,but consistency is the key.
> I also am afraid that one day he may nip,so we try to be on top of him with his little attitude.
> Any other suggestions???


I agree!! I definately want Gucci to know that she IS the low one on the totum pole, and she does need to behave with the kids as well.

But at the same time....when she has been playing for HOURS with them and needs to rest a bit, they need to have some respect for that. I have 7 kids, so she can get really worn out when they all run around the backyard for hours on end playing 'chase me" with her.

There needs to be balance.

Her growl is actually more of a "grumble" than it is anything aggressive...It isn't like a vicious dog about to attack, it is more like "are you serious?!" I just don't see it as overly aggresive.

Honestly, I'm the same way if I'm awoken for senseless BS. It better be an emergency or someone sick! lol

Kara


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## dotndani

Kara,7 kids GOd Bless YOU!! You lopk great!!What's your secret????????????


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## Thumper

LOL!

It is sort of a Brady Bunch arrangement! I have 3 kids and my Husband has 4 from our previous marriages.  My 3 are with us most of the time, but my stepkids are here every other weekend, and a few weeks in the summer.

The secret to managing that many kids is to keep them busy, keep them on schedule, and make sure they all get enough sleep! Otherwise, they will get grumpy and fight. lol

It generally runs pretty smoothly, but I do have a problem getting the twin stepdaughters to follow the rules/training regiment with Gucci. 

But people generally look at me like I'm crazy when they see us all out! Their ages are 18, 15, 11, 10, 9, 8, 8.....and a dog! hehe

Kara


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## Julie

Paige is right.........I agree with her.No dog should get away with that.You need to be the alpha,or the child if he/she is old enough to handle it.I would step in otherwise and after scolding with a firm no......I would grab the collar and make that dog get off the couch or whatever it is they are growling about.They will catch on in short order.......

That sounds mean,but it's not.......dogs want YOU to be the boss.


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## whitBmom

If they do nip, NEVER back away, and NEVER show fear, otherwise they will take it as being in a higher position than you. Oreo growled ONCE at my daughter and I reacted immedately and I put him on his back with his belly up to her for a few minutes. He never did that again. He is okay with children, and if I see they are too much I tell them to leave him alone and then I let him go in his crate for a break. It can be overwhelming when the kids are grabbing you from every direction. I just don't let him ever get to the point where he feels overwhelmed as a prevention from him feeling that he is left to defend himself. Right now I am focussing on helping Oreo get over his need to react to barky growly dogs. When they come at us with their territorial and dominant behaviour, Oreo likes to react and bark, but over time I am finding he is getting better. It just takes time, patience and dilligence on our part. In the end it is worth it as they have the rest of their lives with us.


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## Jane

My puppy who is now 8 months old (also named Scout!  ) would also growl at my kids (12 and 8) when we first brought him home. He would growl when they had their faces or bodies over his and were petting him, or when they tried to pick him up. He even did that to my husband a couple of times! Hubby was able to out-alpha him with a stern NO and continued petting and praise. 

It was harder for the kids. So I would sit next to them (my son and the puppy) and when the puppy would growl while being petted, I'd tell him NO. Then when he stopped growling, I'd praise him and tell him he was a good dog while my son would continue to pet him. My older son was more courageous and I'd be with him when he'd pick up the puppy (who'd growl) and I'd just do the same thing. After awhile, Scout gave up and doesn't growl at my older son anymore.

The younger son was more timid and Scout will still occaisionally growl at him, but it is much less and the growl is more of a "token growl" (it tapers off like he's running out of batteries!). My younger son will then just tell him NO and Scout submits. So things are moving in the right direction at least. 

Good luck!

Jane


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## lfung5

Kara,
All I can say is, yikes. Thats a lot of kids! Check out the show, Mom's on the Move. You should apply!


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## irnfit

My two are really good with kids, except one. The only one they ever growled at was my cousin's daughter. She annoys them and the don't know her, so the growl at her. You would think she would know better...they just got the 7th dog. Yikes!!! She is 10 and should know better.


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## TnTWalter

*I am having this problem with Winston...*

I have been saying no but he's still doing it. He nipped my son yesterday after growling. My son was annoying him but it freaked me out. So I will definitely start applying these techniques. It's only when he's sleeping and they go to hug or grab him, etc. Although they're annoying, this is UNACCEPTABLE. Period. So, it sounds like I need to roll him over grab his nose and say 'NO BITE'. I will try this today and see how it goes...any other tips? Thanks so much.

He's 4 months. This started over the last couple weeks and I wasn't on top of it [I was yelling at kids more at first because he was trying to sleep...so I probably encouraged it. DUH].

Trish


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## Laurief

Trish - that is tough, especially cause he is only 4 months old, and he was woken up. My guys would growl, but never nipped like that. Like you said you have to take charge and be real consistant letting him know it is wrong - Although I see BIG problem for you cause I dont know how anyone could yell at that face!!!


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## Thumper

Gucci didn't like being woken up by the kids when she was a puppy, But we were just persistant with her and now she really doesnt' mind being petted when she sleeps. Just keep telling him "NO" and continue to pet and praise when he is settled down. I probably would freak out too if she ever nipped over it though.

Now, I also tell my kids to let her take naps during the day, otherwise...we are dealing with a grumpy/tired puppy....but I also agree that that behavior is unacceptable! It is just finding balance, I suppose. But I think she has really grown out of that  SO just be persistant and don't give up! Try to be right there when the kids go to pet him, so you can flip him over and let him know that you will NOT tolerate it.

Kara


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## Beamer

Beamer has never nipped for being bothered while napping. If the petting bothers him, he willjust get up and move a few feet away and go back to sleep... 

He STILL nips though when playing with my friends. Many of my friends think its cute to let him od this.. I keep on telling them NO!! but they dont listen.. Beamie is pretty gentle with the nipping, but still...


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## juliav

Bugsy absolutely adores kids of any and all ages. My kids are 14 and 16 and don't look or act like kids, lol. But when family friends or relitives come over for a visit with younger kids, Bugsy is in heaven!!! In his opinion, they just can't do anything wrong and he lets them do pretty much anything they want. Now, my Standards are quite a different story and I am actually in a process of interviewing trainers as their behavior around kids isn't welcoming!!!


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## Melissa Miller

Goldie does this too. She just really doesn't like kids. More the smaller age like 3-5. Older kids she is ok with. When I take her to the studio I have to put her up so she wont growl if I have toddlers there. I do tell her NO. We don't have kids so she is not around that situation much. 

Stogie is funny around crawling babies. HE loves them. He must think they are human dogs, and they are on his level. He is so gentle and just licks them.


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## Thumper

I bet that is cute watching Stogie ponder over the infants! LOL

Gucci was around toddlers for the first time on vacation, and I was SO proud of her! She did really well. My neice would run to pet her and more like smack Gucci upside the head in a clutzy toddler manner, and she just laid down and was very gentle with her. I was SO proud! I was really worried about how she would react to my hyper 1.5 yo niece.

She is pretty good with kids of all ages, and is better about being woken up by them, she will go hide somewhere now! She has outwitted them! 

I can see how dogs can be scared of little kids, some kids think they are stuffed animals and handle them sort of carelessly, IMO.

Kara


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## radar_jones

Radar has never growled at kids I must say and I am very happy about that. My Wife has two small three year old neices and they love dogs and have been around Radar before and he adores them and plays with them and is probably more afraid of them then they are of him. He won't growl at them he'll just go to his Crate is he wants some alone time. He's pretty good that way. If you bother him while he's sleeping he'll just get up and move somewhere else or he'll just lay there and take it..... 

Derek


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## Doggie Nut

Well with all the new grand babies I've got coming plus the ones already here this should put Valentino to the test....so far all he wants to do is jump up on them, which usually knocks them down. They get scared and then they SCREAM!


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## Eurohav

Putzi growls at our just turned 13 year old boy, but loves our 14 year old girl. My son did do some ear hair pulling and maybe that made our dog mistrust him. But it's still bad even though he stopped- our dog will bark even if I try to hug my son (like he's protecting me from my son)... or we wonder if he doesn't want to be the lowest one on the totem pole...

But at Fests or large gatherings, he's nice to other little children...


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## radar_jones

Radar does the cutest thing which I was just reminded of when you mentioned hugging your son... 

Radar will get rather jealous it seems when I Kiss My Wife infront Of him. He will sometimes want to "get in on it" and will barge in and lick My Wife's Face while I am Kissing her. It's very cute.

Derek


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## TnTWalter

*Well we're having issues still with my son & Winston...*

My son is not gentle at all and really I don't blame Winston for being annoyed by him, but he now nips him. He is great with the girls and other kids, just not with my son. I'm thinking he thinks he's 'above' him so he can do that. I'm going to work with my son on being gentle and saying 'no' when Winston growls, etc. Obviously, I need them to get along and I don't want Winston to do it to any other kid that annoys him....

Did anyone else ever have this?

Trish


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## Thumper

Yes, sort of!

I had an issue w/ Gucci not liking my step daughters as much as the other kids.....of course, I have alot of kids! lol

Why not have your son start doing alot of the "treating" and help w/ training? Start letting your son give Winston the really SPECIAL treats every day and see if that helps.

Kara


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## TnTWalter

*Kara...that is a GREAT idea...*

thanks. I can't believe I didn't think of it. LOL...it's not like I haven't read 7 training books and taken notes even! :biggrin1:

My son came downstairs and started petting Winston and he rolled over on his back and even licked him!!! So I commented to my son how if he's sweet to Winston, he'll love him and he said 'I'll try to be gentle every time'...we'll see.

The treats will definitely help!!! I'll report later today. eace:

Trish


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## Jane

Trish,

Maybe you can have your son feed Winston too (put the dog bowl down when it is time to eat). Then Winston might see your son as the food provider!


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## Sissygirl

When I first got Sissy we went to a puppy training class and the teacher 
specifically said that men/boys are not as gentle and sometimes the men/boys do not know how to play with the puppies so they would put their hands over the dogs face and kinda shake the face back and forth - playing. She said this aggravates the puppies and sometimes they might mistrust. Not because they are being mean they just don't know what to do with the puppies other than mess with them.. Girls are more apt to pick them up and love them and pet. 

This does not necessarily mean this is the norm - she just said that was her experience.

Not saying that is what your son is doing - but him giving the treats is a great idea.

I have an older son - and he gives Sissy a 1/2 treat every time he comes home. He runs and lets her chase him - she loves it.


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