# 12 week old behavioral issues



## ttutah3

We have a 12 week old havanese who is constantly biting and nipping. There is never a time where he wants to cuddle or lay with you, he just wants to bite hands, toes, shirts,pants, etc... We have tried a firm no and a muzzle hold, a time out, walking away, etc... The muzzle hold and walking away do not work. He will just continue after the no and muzzle hold. Walking away does not work as he continues to bite at pants etc.. Time out is ok, but the behavior starts again as soon as he is released. He also has growled a few times, and it is NOT a play growl. It is a " I want to do what I am doing growl so you better not bug me" It usually occurs if he is getting into mischief, hyper, or just does not want to be moved from a situation. My vet feels he is very smart, but definitely a dominant alpha male. He is getting nuetered between 16-20 weeks, but I read this does not help a ton. He is also going to start puppy school in a week. One of the main reasons we got a havanese was their love for children and their loving demeanor. We had a very mellow, loving female lab before, so this is a big shock to our system. I remember so puppy biting when she was a pup, but NOTHING like this. I know he is just a playful pup, but I am so concerned that he may end up biting one of my children someday. My kids are very gentle with him, so it is not their behavior bringing it on. In fact, he will try this with anyone he meets.

Any suggestions? I do fear that in retrospect the breeder we got him from was possibly questionable, so I am worried he was taken from his mother too soon. Not sure if we can fix that, but any help would be much appreciated.


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## davetgabby

hi, here's some reading. http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/teaching-bite-inhibition Nothing to do with "dominant" male. He's a typical puppy. Enjoy your puppy classes, glad to see you are going for them. How old was he when you got him? You're right ,neutering won't help with biting. You have to teach you children how to do this, everyone has to be on board.


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## TilliesMom

wow, sounds like you have your hands full! I hope that the "experts" will chime in with some good advice for you and quick!! 
Why do you think he was taken away from his mom to soon? How old was he when you got him? Did you meet him before he came home to you? Was he shipped??
Also, I am curious as to why he is going to be neutered between 16-20 weeks!? that sounds awfully young to me? I'm sure you have good reasons and am just wondering why?
and WELCOME to the forum, can't wait to see some PICTURES of your precious pup!!


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## Mojo's Mom

I'm sorry, I am TRYING not to laugh, because I KNOW what you are going through. Mojo was an absolute terror as a puppy, and not at all what I expected. He had no interest in toys at all, so all his "attack" energy was directed at us. He never seemed to stop with the teeth, and we were prickled with tooth marks and some pretty good slashes from when he latched on and he, or we, pulled. Wow, I can remember trying to watch a movie, sitting on the couch, and for the entire two hours he would be biting non-stop and the only way I could cope was to keep pushing something that was okay to bite on into his mouth. He would keep trying to push it away to get back to work on my hand or arm. I can laugh now, but it was a challenge at the time!

But Mo wasn't any "alpha male", if there even is such a thing in Havanese, he was just a high spirited puppy with limitless energy. So is yours. This is not dominance, this is high energy puppy enthusiasm. You have a wild man, as we did.

Nothing helped but time, I'm sorry to tell you. Although brief time-outs in the crate (no anger, no emotion whatsoever, just a cheerful sounding "oops!", scoop him up and put him gently in his crate) came the closest to helping. I remember laughing at the people who said to "just walk away": yeah, walk away with a puppy attached to your pants (or ankle) with his teeth, RIGHT! I guess is works for calmer pups.

The point is, you don't have a vicious dog, and I really think that the "growl" you describe is playful (but I'm not there, I don't know that)....Mojo didn't growl, though. Sounds to me so much like my boy that I feel quite sure all you have is a Havanese pup on the high end of the energy level, and his favorite outlet is his mouth.

I wouldn't get him neutered so young, most are done at six months, but maybe you have a good reason. It won't help the behavior, so don't think it will.

I know when Mo was a puppy it was just a comfort to come on this forum and find that others had been there, been through what I had, even though nothing really helped. Most Havanese pups aren't this wild, from what I can tell.

By the way, I had a two year old living in the house at the time, and although Mojo never stopped biting us, he NEVER used his teeth on my granddaughter's skin (clothes, hair scrunchies, YES, but never on skin). I always marvelled at this. Somehow, they got along famously from the get-go. But she was born a dog person and always "got it".

I wish I could tell you there is something you can do...except wait. By the time his permanent teeth are in it will be 50% better, and the rest comes by one year. Nearly two now, Mojo will occasionally use his teeth on me gently in very hard play, as he does with other dogs, but he is easily and quickly corrected. He remains a high energy dog, but spends much of his day just hanging out, and he is very cuddly now. He loves to have me hold him upside down like a baby, as you see in my signature. People who knew him as a pup are amazed by how calm he is now.

Hang in there!


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## dodrop82

Yep, I agree with everything Mojo's Mom said! Yogi bloodied us with those baby teeth all the time. And she was and is a big growler in her play. It's just one of her vocalizations. She means apsolutely no harm. To this day, I get on the ground to play with her...I get her belly, get her butt, bee-beep her nose, etc...and she gets my hands with her mouth. The only difference is, she does it gently now...she no longer bloodys me! But she sure does still growl! Relax, and enjoy the baby! They become grown-ups soooo fast!


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## ttutah3

*thanks*

Thanks everyone, I definitely feel better. We tried the coin in the bottle trick again tonight and it really seemed to work.He immediately stops the bad behavior and focuses on us. We couple it with "no bite" so he knows what we mean. We praise him when he becomes gentle or chews on his toys. I think he is definitely high energy. He LOVES to play fetch, which is a good thing. My boys love that part. Our lab was a lover, but very lazy. They love that he can play and do tricks. He already knows to give the ball when we say give. I think things will be better when it is warmer here and we can go on walks. He is an explorer, so I know he will love it. We will see how leash training goes. LOL!!!

He will be about 5 months when neutered. We had a few reccommends from the vet and other pet owners that said if you can get them neutered before they "lift their leg" some of the boy behaviors may not emerge. I have not owned a boy dog since I was 5, and all I can remember about that dog was leg humping!!! I know TMI, but it was gross. I hope to avoid that if possible. Anyway, love all of your support, and I am glad to see others have walked in my shoes. I will post his pic in a minute. He is definitely a cutie and a keeper.


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## MaggieMay

Just wanted to chime in and tell you my Maggie was just like that. It was upsetting to my kids especially my little one. She was constantly biting pant legs toes, fingers etc. Strangers too that would try and pet her. I would gently remind them she's teething. I did the puppy kindergarten also which you'll love and learn techniques to deal with it. When he's biting on you distracting is also really helpful. I would run grab a toy and squeak it and throw when she was biting on my kids. that really helped. The trainer also said when they are calmer, not when they are engaged in biting behavior put your fingers in her mouth, if she bites to hard on you let out a puppy kind of yelp. My Maggie was also not a cuddler, very energetic. She's a million times better now and she's only 5 months old. She's definitely learned to bite lightly, (bite inhibition). I was scared too she wasn't going to be good with the kids. She also would grumble growl if you took her away from something, she still does it to my youngest daughter when she picks her up when she doesn't want to be. I don't ever imagine her biting anyone in anger. Don't worry it will pass!!!! They all told me that here, and they were right!!! Hang in there, and puppy class will really help.


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## ttutah3

definitely think Joey is going to be a grumble growler as well. BTW love the name. That was our lab's name. Can't go wrong with a Maggie!!!!!


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## The Laughing Magpie

You got the playful one. When I got Yogi he was soooo different then my shih Tzu or Lhasa, he had so much energy!!!!! I always scent the dog toys with a vanilla scent and if they pick up a pillow or Human toys I take it and say no and give it back one of theirs. So I have never had an big issue with chewing. We use to play with Yogi for about 6 to 10 mins every hour or so in the day to wear him out things like fetching the ball only we would do this fast over and over. Also if he is mouthing your hands and arms put vicks on your arm and let him try mouthing after a few times he should not do it. You may have to do it again on another day but dogs usually get it quickly. Dogs do not like the smell or taste. The idea is they remember they don't like the way the hands tasted. I really think this is a phase when you go to class many of the trainers will have some good advice. Yogi makes those growley noises his tail is up. When he growls for real his tail is not up. I have a video of him playing with my grand daughter doing the growl. The sounds!!!! I will see if I can find it.


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## ttutah3

I like the vicks idea... I think I have some upstairs We are also trying to do more playing. He loves that as well as training sessions. I think his mind needs to be active or he gets bored. I think in the end we will be glad that he is playful. My kids really wanted a playful dog, however, I don't think they realized (nor did I) the extra work that goes into that personality. I thought Havanese were not suppose to be growley? Has your guy ever shown teeth when he is growling for real, or is it just for show? I really do not think Joey would bite.


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## ttutah3

Oh, what do you use as a vanilla scent? Luckily he does not chew on bad things...YET, but I am sure that is next. Luckily I am home a lot so he is always supervised. He goes into the x-pen when I am away or unable to supervise him.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Lets see if this works I think you can hear the growling over my Granddaughters big mouthHe has never bitten and loves all kids.


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## motherslittlehelper

The Laughing Magpie said:


> You got the playful one. When I got Yogi he was soooo different then my shih Tzu or Lhasa, he had so much energy!!!!! I always scent the dog toys with a vanilla scent and if they pick up a pillow or Human toys I take it and say no and give it back one of theirs. So I have never had an big issue with chewing. We use to play with Yogi for about 6 to 10 mins every hour or so in the day to wear him out things like fetching the ball only we would do this fast over and over. Also if he is mouthing your hands and arms put vicks on your arm and let him try mouthing after a few times he should not do it. You may have to do it again on another day but dogs usually get it quickly. Dogs do not like the smell or taste. The idea is they remember they don't like the way the hands tasted. I really think this is a phase when you go to class many of the trainers will have some good advice. Yogi makes those growley noises his tail is up. When he growls for real his tail is not up. I have a video of him playing with my grand daughter doing the growl. The sounds!!!! I will see if I can find it.


Laughing Magpie, PLEASE don't tell me you are talking about Vick's Vaporub???!!  Do they still make that stuff. I have such HORRID memories of that stuff - my mother used to put it on our chests as kids when we had a cold, and then we would have to go upstairs to an unheated bedroom (where you could actually see your breath it was so cold). And then, in the morning, we would try to scrub it off before we went to school, but you could never get it all off. Oh man, it gives me the heebeejeebees even remembering it. I considered it torture and vowed I would never put it on my kids. I don't think I could smell it without going over the edge!! 

:focus: Augie was a HUGE biter/nipper as a puppy too, like many of you have described, fingers, toes, arms, pants legs and we could not wear anything with buttons or zippers or he was always chewing on those too - once I looked down and he had chewed a bunch of teeth out of my sweatshirt zipper. People told me to yelp when he bit, but it didn't seem to phase him much. But I kept yelping and refused to play with him when he bit. I wasn't sure he was ever going to outgrow it, but he finally did. Puppy classes helped as that topic was discussed and we worked on it there. He is two now and he definitely isn't an alpha or dominant dog. He is active but easy going and happy go lucky. And now he is content to be held - even like a baby (think someone else mentioned that). It is kind of like having a baby, you sort of forget the unpleasantness over time until people start describing it, and then you go - oh, yes, I remember - it WAS like that!! 

People have mentioned playing fetch - that is a great indoor game that we play a lot, especially on these days where it has been doing nothing but rain. I have these lightweight little sherpa discs with squeakers in them and I sail one through the house and the minute he brings it back and drops it, the next one is on its way. It does a good job of wearing Augie out! And they are lightweight enough that when my aim is bad (quite often) they don't hurt anything.


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## motherslittlehelper

ttutah3 said:


> Oh, what do you use as a vanilla scent? Luckily he does not chew on bad things...YET, but I am sure that is next. Luckily I am home a lot so he is always supervised. He goes into the x-pen when I am away or unable to supervise him.


Augie went after electrical cords for awhile. That was totally scary. Had to watch him like a hawk and tried to block them off so he wouldn't get at them. That, too, passed. They really are like bringing babies home. 

Laughing Magpie - the dogs like vanilla scent? Didn't know that. Will have to try to remember for any future puppies.  Yes, what do you use for the scent?


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## MaggieMay

My maggie sounds just like Yogi when she plays. Same exact noise. But she does do a grumble when my youngest daughter picks her up when she's all cuddled up trying to sleep. It's a little different than a play growl. But I just know now it would never be an aggressive growl, especially since I reprimand dd when she does this. I tell her it's Maggie's way of saying hey leave me alone!!! 
I really thought Maggie was always going to be a nipper and it really did stop already, and has been for at least a month or 2.


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## krandall

Mojo's Mom said:


> I'm sorry, I am TRYING not to laugh, because I KNOW what you are going through. Mojo was an absolute terror as a puppy, and not at all what I expected.


I remember how exasperated you were with Mojo's teeth! And, boy, did he ever calm down as he grew up! Look at that boy now!!!:biggrin1:


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## Suzi

ttutah3 said:


> I like the vicks idea... I think I have some upstairs We are also trying to do more playing. He loves that as well as training sessions. I think his mind needs to be active or he gets bored. I think in the end we will be glad that he is playful. My kids really wanted a playful dog, however, I don't think they realized (nor did I) the extra work that goes into that personality. I thought Havanese were not suppose to be growley? Has your guy ever shown teeth when he is growling for real, or is it just for show? I really do not think Joey would bite.


 The growling and showing teeth sound's to aggressive to me. Zoey is about the same age she bites but also loves her chews. when the play gets hard I use the word gentle and try to roll her over on her back if that does not work I just stop playing with her.
It is miserable weather here also. I never had a problem with Maddie who is 6mo I think it was because we would go for good off leash runs every day. 
I have been giving Zoey baby carrots to chew she loves them maybe about 4 a day. She loves them


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## motherslittlehelper

Wow, I really don't like Vick's, do I?? ound: (If anyone read my post above in response to Laughing Magpie's comment about using Vick's). I was sort of joking..ound: Typed that late last night and didn't realize how strong I came across. But it really isn't one of my better childhood memories growing up! ound:


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## The Laughing Magpie

Linda, Most of us of a certain age remember vicks. I hated it too. The dogs hate it!!!!! Thats the point. If we hate the smell imagine what they smell? I thought your post was funny.
As for the vanilla scent I use to buy the vanilla oil, get a very small spray bottle (like you clean reading glasses with, water and put a few drops of the vanilla oil just enough so you can smell it. Spray a little bit on the toy let it dry before giving it to them. Also last year my daughter brought me a small spray bottle of vanilla scent put out by 'The Dog Whisperer' she got it at a Big Lots and thought I could use it. It will last me for years it only takes a pump. Years ago one of my cousins use to make homemade dog toys with a scent sewed inside and she marketed them in adds in the back of throw away magazines. Funny thing is she has never owned a dog.


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## krandall

motherslittlehelper said:


> Wow, I really don't like Vick's, do I?? ound: (If anyone read my post above in response to Laughing Magpie's comment about using Vick's). I was sort of joking..ound: Typed that late last night and didn't realize how strong I came across. But it really isn't one of my better childhood memories growing up! ound:


And in the summer time, it was Noxema I hated... Remember your mother slathering that on sunburns?


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## jillnors2

Does she know how to sit? This helped me tremendously as when my pup gets out of control, I have her sit, give her a cookie and say good girl and it really refocuses her. I also followed the suggestions in the article that davetgabby linked. It''s a very good article and i do yelp when pup bites and then ignore her. She really never bites any longer, she just licks which I don't mind. She's 18 weeks old now.
ETA: I need to get a picture of her up here. Here she is-She's a doll baby.


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## The Laughing Magpie

Karen, I forgot about the Noxema. Yuck!


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## Sissygirl

Here is an old post from 2007.

This was my post:

I just read this book - "The Loved Dog" - I know I have posted it on about every thread - but it is a good read. Don't agree with everything but good ideas!

Here is one for biting.

A dog named Honey kept biting and the owner wanted to teach it kisses.

So this trainer (Tamar Geller) says:

"I needed to teach Honey to kiss hands, not bite them, so I pulled out a jar of peanut butter. You can use any healthy food that can be smeared on your hand. Some dogs like peanut butter, and other like honey or liver spread. I smeared a think layer of peanut butter on the back of my hand and put it out for Honey to lick. As soon as she started licking the good-tasting treat, I repeatedly said, "Kisses, kisses, kisses," with a soft and appreciative voice. "Good kisses," I reinforced as Honey savored the peanut butter. I was teaching her that licking my hand, or kisses, was something I wanted her to do, without correcting her nipping behavior. "

Anyways, just a little of what she says about that.

Here is the link to the biting thread if you want to read more.

http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=1908


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## motherslittlehelper

krandall said:


> And in the summer time, it was Noxema I hated... Remember your mother slathering that on sunburns?


Yes, I do! And I liked Noxema - in fact, it wasn't but last year or so that I bought some just so I could smell it and run my finger through a new jar of it! (OK, now you know I am certifiable, right??)ound:ound: How about Ponds cold cream? Loved the smell of that too. And then there was Clearasil, flesh colored in a tube, with its distinctive smell, that years after I used it, if I would smell it, it would take me back to my first apartment - everything as clear in my mind as if I was personally sitting there again. It was just that Vick's stuff that affects me like running fingernails on a chalkboard affects some people.

Please forgive my wandering off topic - feel like I have ADD lately. Am having trouble focusing!

:focus:


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## krandall

motherslittlehelper said:


> Please forgive my wandering off topic - feel like I have ADD lately. Am having trouble focusing!
> 
> :focus:


That's OK... We love you anyway!<g>


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## Kathie

Linda, I loved Noxema, too! In fact, I was just thinking of it recently when I bought something that had the same scent and I thought "someone stole Noxema's scent!" LOL It did sooth sunburns and I had a lot of those with fair skin living in the south! Oh, what memories some scents can bring back!


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## dodrop82

I can not even believe you, Linda! When I get sick, I'll put Vicks on my nose just so I can smell it, because it's sooo comforting to me, because it reminds me of my Mommy taking care of me when I was a little girl! As a matter of fact...I've put Vicks on my nose when I'm not even sick...just in need of some comfort! I LOVE the smell of Vicks! And my Grandpa used to always use those Vicks smelly things...ya know what I mean. Like a tube, that you screwed the tube-like lid off of, and then you put the tube to your nose and just get the smell of Vicks....Wonder if they still make them?! I need to check it out...My Grandpa was the Greatest man to walk the world (Cept for Jesus, of course) In my opinion anyway...so that's another comforting Vicks memory for me! So you see...I feel just as stongly about Vicks as you do...in an opposing sort of way!!! HeeHee!


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## Narwyn

Such a young puppy simply hasn't fully learned that when they bite people, it hurts them. They HAVE learned this from their litter mates - after all, a puppy will yelp when bitten too hard. Far more effective than punishment is teaching empathy. Yelp when they bite, they will stop, and then immediately redirect toward a toy or something else appropriate. They will be "dumb puppies" and forget, but they figure it out pretty quickly.


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## Mojo's Mom

I tried every "yelp" in the book, every variation on that sound I could imagine, and all it did was get Mojo more excited. As for smearing anything bad tasting on hands or arms, this leaves very large areas of real estate for attacking and latching onto, and unless we had covered every inch of ourselves and all our clothes it wouldn't have worked.

As I mentioned before, the biggest problem was that Mojo had zero interest in any of the dozens of toys of all types and dozens of acceptable chewing options we offered. He only wanted US to chew and bite on. 

But as I also said, he's a sweet, loving, mellow teenager now, and you'd never guess what a savage he'd been in his first months.

I remember Noxema like it was yesterday. They say that smell is the sense most closely tied to memory.


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## ttutah3

I like the carrot idea... Iwill try that


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## motherslittlehelper

krandall said:


> That's OK... We love you anyway!<g>


Thanks, Karen! Glad someone does! :biggrin1:

Mojo's Mom - I believe it about the sense of smell being closely tied to memory! I will catch a whiff of something and it just transports me back to the place where I experienced that smell.

Stacey - I have good memories of my mom too - Mondays was bread baking days. Huge batches. And when we got home from school, there would always be fresh cinnamon rolls - Yummmmm. I prefer to remember that smell in association with her taking care of us.  I'll leave the Vick's to you. :biggrin1:

The moderators are probably going to ban me from the forum. 
:focus: AGAIN!


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## ttutah3

OMG she is so cute!!!! She loves the snow like my guy!!!


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## dodrop82

Linda...Thanks for the Vicks, cause I certainly don't have any cinnamon rolls!


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## The Laughing Magpie

Ok, the Vicks is to only be used as a lesson to stop the mouthing of the hands and arms. Because tuthah3 was worried about the children. It does not make up for continued training. Puppies have a very short attention span. On the video of Yogi if you look closely you will notice a point where my granddaugher says: Stop sort of puts her hand up and makes a pushing motion and Yogi stops. It is not only important to train the dog but to work with the children. Alison is 6 in the video since she was four she can tell the dogs: sit, down, Come, Stop. You need to practice with the children so the dog will respect the childrens comand. Each dog is different and what works with one may not work with another. The Vicks lesson is to give breathing space so the puppy will not target the hands and arms. Normally this is used on large dog because they can do damage to small child easily. Also the stop comand is not something I really use, I train this for the children's use, I have done this with every dog I have owned. The fun part is when a child sees for the first time that the dog will do a sit for them....you need to see their faces. Also I teach the children hand signels as well as spoken comands.


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## clare

Great idea with the Vicks, have just told DH as he hates having his hands licked all the time by Nellie so we are going to give it a go, to try and help correct that.Dizzie is a great growler when he is playing, but he is all mouth and no trousers,and has never hurt anyone,nor tried to, it's just an awful racket, I'm glad Nellie doesn't do it otherwise it would be a very noise house!


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