# Covid-19



## 31818

Okay it has just been announced this evening. The Governor of California just announced that he is putting the entire State of 40M residents under mandatory home sequester. Only exceptions will be for getting groceries, going to the doctor, or essential employees as defined by the State. Residents are allowed to walk outside if they practice social distancing.

This is bad, REALLY BAD!

Ricky's Popi


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## BingLee

Hi, Mom of Bing Lee, age 9 months. Live in San Francisco, 4 days into our sequestering protocol (same as State mandate). Have to do something with 40 million residents. Taking advantage of this time to get all the stuff I wanted to get accomplished in in the home and garden.
Love to read and books are stacked up. 
Still can walk Bing. We do three miles total a day, am and pm, now 7 days a week. I am embracing my part in stemming the flow of the virus. I am lucky, live near the ocean and there are lots of folks with dogs. We are pulling together as a community, people are positive. Wish all Havanese readers to stay safe and take care of your families and our precious dog kids.


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## krandall

We aren’t required to do it here (yet) but it is requested of as many people as possible. Many people are working from home. I am at home as is my DIL and granddaughter, My son is still working, but he works outdoors, so he has little danger. My husband is a CPA, and still going to his office, but he and his three employees all have separate spaces, and they are requesting that clients mail in their paperwork then arrange phone meetings rather than face to face. While the deadline for PAYING taxes has been extended by 90 days, stupidly, they have not extended the FILING date. So the taxes still have to get done...


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## ShamaMama

I teach French at a public high school in a Minneapolis suburb. Students didn't report for school this week so that teachers could prepare for "distance learning" which will begin after Spring Break (March 21 through 29). DH teaches math at a public high school near the Iowa border. Students reported to school on Monday for the last time, then teachers reported to prepare for "distance learning" which will begin next week. DH has been sick, however, so he stayed home Tuesday through today. He's finally starting to feel a little better. I was sick the week before DH. (Colds for both of us. No fever.) Next week, even though students at DH's school will be learning at a distance, the teachers will have to report. Neither of us understand why. My district will be allowing us to teach from our homes. Although I would much rather be teaching my students in my classroom, I am looking forward to gaining TWO HOURS A DAY by not doing my commute! But enough about that ... What's Shama doing, you wonder? She was just chewing on the corner of a cardboard box! She's almost five years old, so what is up with that? Time for a redirect ... I put a tiny bit of peanut butter in her horse hoof, she raced to her purple mat to lie down to wait for her treat, and I gave her the hoof. She's been going at it for the past 15 minutes. What a good girl!


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## 31818

We have been cooped at at Casa de Ricky for the last week due to my self imposed quarantine and unseasonable heavy rain. I could see that Ricky was getting a little lethargic and perhaps depressed with the disruption in his regular routine. We tried to compensate with game playing in the house and lots of interaction, which helped, but still wasn't enough.

Despite the sequestration order last night, this morning bloomed bright and sunny, a beautiful brisk new Spring day and I was not going to miss that opportunity. I decided to hit the trails on our normal routine and run Ricky's legs off to burn up some of his pent up energy. So off we went at 7 AM. He was in heaven enjoying all the fresh outdoor smells, pumping his little legs, and meeting some of his friends, doggie and human (at a distance). He was grinning eyeball to eyeball. Three miles and an hour later we had completed our typical loop, which we hadn't done in three weeks. He was ready for his hearty breakfast and ate it con gusto. For Ricky, the earth was spinning on its axis again. He took a lengthy nap this morning and again this afternoon. He was pooped but contented. This evening we had our customary TGIF Fiesta. Ricky had a Kong filled with his favorite vegetables and then finished off chewing on a Bully Stick, Momi and Popi had........never mind. Then it was off for another one mile evening walk with a bedtime poop and potty. Ricky was exhausted and ready to hit his crate and crash. As I post this, he is peacefully sound asleep next to me in his crate. But he will be ready and anxious for this same routine tomorrow morning and so will I.

The point of this post is that the three of us insist that life will go on as normal, even though somewhat modified. We view this new way of doing things under the pandemic as an adventure, learning new ways, but organizing our lives in a normal manner that is familiar to us. Don't lose confidence in yourself and your ability to adapt. Amigos, we can do this together and in the words of Joan Baez, "We Shall Overcome" and we shall prevail. Blessings to all those in the health and education fields. Peace, out.

Ricky's Popi


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## EvaE1izabeth

It was a few days of adjustment for our Havanese, I have to admit. Everyone being home all of the time is so unusual for us, and usual it’s at the end of the day so it signals playtime. I’ve never really let him wander, but he wants to go from room to room to visit everyone. He also tries to herd us together sometimes, which is kind of funny. After a few days of sporadically trying to get us to play ten times a day, he seems to have settled in. He did pee on the rug where sawdust had been tracked into the house from the garage :doh: so I’m not sure what I’m going to do about that one. I did set up his potty tray with wood pellets, which we haven’t used in a while, but I’m still a little nervous about the sawdust that will inevitably be tracked through the house because I planned a big, dusty project for the COVID-19 home time. 

He’s the star of all DH’s conference calls and my kids’ online school video calls!


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## krandall

EvaE1izabeth said:


> It was a few days of adjustment for our Havanese, I have to admit. Everyone being home all of the time is so unusual for us, and usual it's at the end of the day so it signals playtime. I've never really let him wander, but he wants to go from room to room to visit everyone. He also tries to herd us together sometimes, which is kind of funny. After a few days of sporadically trying to get us to play ten times a day, he seems to have settled in. He did pee on the rug where sawdust had been tracked into the house from the garage :doh: so I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that one. I did set up his potty tray with wood pellets, which we haven't used in a while, but I'm still a little nervous about the sawdust that will inevitably be tracked through the house because I planned a big, dusty project for the COVID-19 home time.
> 
> He's the star of all DH's conference calls and my kids' online school video calls!


Maybe have people take shoes off coming in so that the sawdust stays out?

We also had a poop accident here the other day when it rained really heavily, and because of too much going on, disrupted routine, too many people and too much confusion, I don't know whether Pixel was just upset and off her game, or if she tried to get someone to let her out and no one listened. Yes, there is the litter box, but she likes privacy, and if there were people in the kitchen and my office, she might not have felt comfortable in either litter box place. So we are going to need to be more careful on rainy days!

Change and disruption for all of us, but we'll all adjust! It's a beautiful day here again, and as soon as the baby wakes up from her nap, WE are going out for a walk too. Everyone but poor Kodi, who is still grounded because of his shoulder. I'll take him out for a sniff walk and some training later.

...And although it's a BIT early, I think I'm going to set my obedience ring up this weekend, so we can get back in a training routine. I haven't done ANYTHING since our school closed.


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## Heather's

Obviously burglars haven't been watching the news! Yesterday we had an attempted burglary. Don't they know everyone in California is at home. Our doorbell rang and DH went to the door. There was a young woman looking at her phone. Supposedly she was at our house to pick up her friend who was house cleaning. I would have immediately been alerted, but DH thought she might be at the wrong house since a neighbor is remodeling. He noticed she didn't go to that house and got into a Lexus with a driver. The car continued down the street turned around and sped past our house. He then noticed the driver had a hoodie on. He got into his car to follow and call the police. Heading down the hill he saw the police at a house. They were alerted because the house had an alarm system. The house must have had cameras because the sheriff said the Lexus was stolen. Thank goodness we were home this time! Last time we were not that lucky. ☹


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## Mikki

*People of Aldi. * Not to be confused with: People of Walmart.

A friend of mine took a photo of this lady shopping at Aldi in her Beekeeper Outfit, Gloves and a Gas Mask underneath. :smile2:

Another friend said, two college students showed up at Walmart in Hazmat Suits. They were freaking out shoppers and were asked to leave.

We're living in a Surreal World. The Government needs to Shut Down Wall Street, which isn't helping matters.


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## ShamaMama

Heather, I can't believe your DH got in his car to follow the would-be burglars! I'm glad it wasn't worse for you ... Mikki, that is a crazy photo ... Thanks, all, for the updates.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> *People of Aldi. *


We are getting our first, home delivered grocery order from Aldi this afternoon. Easy-peasy! We're not going to put up with the idiots in the grocery stores.

(EDIT) Momi just received her Aldi order and is dancing around the casa. She says it is exactly what she would select had she gone in person! She asks me, why haven't I done this before? She is wiping down all the packages with disinfectant and putting things away. We may die from C-19, but at least it won't be from starvation! :hungry: :grin2:

Oh, and Ricky received his reorder for dog food from Natural Pet this afternoon. We're all in good shape.

I think somethings will improve in the future as a result of the current pandemonium. I envision that online grocery shopping is going to be a permanent 'thing' that will grow in popularity.

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

I'm in Oklahoma and live in a small college town around 50K, 25K are students. I was a City Girl and for a short time we lived in San Diego before finally moving to Stillwater, OK ...home of Oklahoma State University. Back then population was around 25K. Husband dragged me here Kicking and Screaming but many years ago I came to appreciate not living in a big city.

Our local community has been on lock down for more than a week starting Spring Break, as well as, the major cities.

Two days ago our local hospital admitted its first CoVId-19 patient from another county. Today, the state reported there are now 10 CoVid-19 hospitalized patients. 53 have tested positive...more are waiting results.

The three Big University's sent students home at Spring Break and told them not to come back and they will be completing the second semester Online. Public School students were out at Spring Break and told not to come back until April 6th. Public Schools are NOT set up for online learning but they may close for the rest of the school year.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> The Government needs to Shut Down Wall Street, which isn't helping matters.


 The Federal Government needs to be shut down, THEY aren't helping matters.

Ricky's Popi


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## Heather's

ShamaMama said:


> Heather, I can't believe your DH got in his car to follow the would-be burglars! I'm glad it wasn't worse for you ... Mikki, that is a crazy photo ... Thanks, all, for the updates.


Yep! I wasn't happy about that!


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## 31818

This morning, Ricky and I went on our regular 3 mile walk and we both had fun. We kept our distance from neighbors and their dogs and there were a bunch of people/dogs out this morning. I think everyone is getting antsy about being cooped up. I did notice that several of my neighbors were walking shoulder to shoulder. I don't understand their disregard for personal safety and health. These were not household partners! The City of Los Angeles has given up on trying to contain the contraction rate. People there are not following social distancing and home sequestration. The City is now concentrating on minimizing the mortality rate. It is going to be horrific before it gets better.

Both of our daughters are considered to be essential staff by their employers. One is in health services and the other in education services. They are required to go to work and be exposed to potentially contaminated individuals, yet they are not tested are given protective gear because none of that is available to them. Their clients aren't tested either because you have to show symptoms BEFORE you qualify for testing. The President and Federal Government do nothing except dawdle and issue platitudes and charts and sell their stock holdings via insider trading. I am pissed! Not only are my daughters in danger but we cannot visit with them in order to protect ourselves. We do talk via cel video and that will have to do, but this may go on for months.

Ricky's skin allergies chose to flair up this last week and he was scratching and biting himself frequently to the point of causing infection. I called his Vet for an appointment but he said no can do. They are only taking critical cases right now (and they are swamped because they only allow one person/pet inside the office at a time and they have to sanitize after each visit) and Ricky isn't critical.......YET! He said he would give us a prescription for a strong antihistamine and anti-itch spray (which were effective in the past) and to come by and pick them up. This morning we went to the Vet's office but we were not allowed inside. We had to call from the car and a tech met us outside (in full hazmat gear) to give us the prescription and collect payment. All this was done in the trunk of my car and we didn't get within 20 ft. of each other.

I am within 4 days from coming out of self-quarantine as a result of my recent visit to Europe. And things are looking good for me. BUT the three of us will still be in isolation for dog knows how long!

Weird times, but this will show what Americans are truly made of, for better or worse.

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> The Federal Government needs to be shut down, THEY aren't helping matters.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


*You've got it backwards. The Federal Government is and has been basically Shut Down ... non-functioning for a long time. And, the result of that is on Full Display resulting in a National Melt Down in healthcare sectors and the economy.*

A few weeks I started ordering Online and Picking Up at Walmart, which has been super easy. I cleaned by bathroom instead of shopping one morning. :grin2:

Walmart and Sprouts, also, delivers. It's easy to get around town here. If I lived in a big city, I think delivery would be the way to go. I've never shopped at Aldi but see they offer Delivery and Pick Up here. Will have to check out what they have to offer.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> You've got it backwards. The Federal Government is and has been basically Shut Down ... non-functioning for a long time. And, the result of that is on Full Display resulting in a National Melt Down in healthcare sectors and the economy.


i am talking about the administrative and legislative branches, the people who make the decisions and provide leadership, which isn't happening. Your Oklahoma Senator, Inhofe, is too busy protecting his stock holdings with insider trading to get a bill passed in the Senate to provide assistance, like masks and ventilators, to health care professionals. And for that matter my Senator Feinstein has potentially the same conflict. And for the record, I didn't vote for her in the last election.

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> This morning, Ricky and I went on our regular 3 mile walk and we both had fun. We kept our distance from neighbors and their dogs and there were a bunch of people/dogs out this morning. I think everyone is getting antsy about being cooped up. I did notice that several of my neighbors were walking shoulder to shoulder. I don't understand their disregard for personal safety and health. These were not household partners! The City of Los Angeles has given up on trying to contain the contraction rate. People there are not following social distancing and home sequestration. The City is now concentrating on minimizing the mortality rate. It is going to be horrific before it gets better.
> 
> Both of our daughters are considered to be essential staff by their employers. One is in health services and the other in education services. They are required to go to work and be exposed to potentially contaminated individuals, yet they are not tested are given protective gear because none of that is available to them. Their clients aren't tested either because you have to show symptoms BEFORE you qualify for testing. *The President and Federal Government do nothing except dawdle and issue platitudes and charts and sell their stock holdings via insider trading. I am pissed!* Not only are my daughters in danger but we cannot visit with them in order to protect ourselves. We do talk via cel video and that will have to do, but this may go on for months.
> 
> Ricky's skin allergies chose to flair up this last week and he was scratching and biting himself frequently to the point of causing infection. I called his Vet for an appointment but he said no can do. They are only taking critical cases right now (and they are swamped because they only allow one person/pet inside the office at a time and they have to sanitize after each visit) and Ricky isn't critical.......YET! He said he would give us a prescription for a strong antihistamine and anti-itch spray (which were effective in the past) and to come by and pick them up. This morning we went to the Vet's office but we were not allowed inside. We had to call from the car and a tech met us outside (in full hazmat gear) to give us the prescription and collect payment. All this was done in the trunk of my car and we didn't get within 20 ft. of each other.
> 
> I am within 4 days from coming out of self-quarantine as a result of my recent visit to Europe. And things are looking good for me. BUT the three of us will still be in isolation for dog knows how long!
> 
> Weird times, but this will show what Americans are truly made of, for better or worse.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


*I'M PISSED TOO!!*

Our local Hospital volunteers are sewing and making masks for the hospital staff. China can provide the things we need and are doing it for other countries. Heck they can build hospitals in five days and American can't figure out how to provide masks and ventilators to hospitals. The World is changing.

I read where large cities with big outbreaks have given up testing, except for the most severe cases. Telling people if your feel like you have the Flu consider it Coronavirus and Stay Home, unless it's an emergency and you need hospitalization.

In one way, that's kind of a relief. Turn the Virus loose since there's really nothing much that can be done about it, until vaccines and people become immune to it. We can hope it slows down in Warm weather like the regular Flu, buying time for vaccines and giving hospitals a breather.

How long can America social distance and quarantine 330 million people? Whose working? Our economy and life runs on people working and not being trapped inside their homes.


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## Heather's

I've been taking advantage of home grocery delivery for a couple of years now when I don't need a lot of items. I place the order in the morning and groceries are delivered by the afternoon. Unfortunately because of the demand for home delivery there is about a one week wait. I ordered several days ago and delivery will be next Friday. So... I'm now going to venture out to do some grocery shopping. 😬


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## krandall

Heather's said:


> I've been taking advantage of home grocery delivery for a couple of years now when I don't need a lot of items. I place the order in the morning and groceries are delivered by the afternoon. Unfortunately because of the demand for home delivery there is about a one week wait. I ordered several days ago and delivery will be next Friday. So... I'm now going to venture out to do some grocery shopping. &#128556;


When I was really sick last spring I used it a few times, and we just set up our first order under the "new life order". With many of the stores around here we couldn't set up anything. We finally found one where they would shop, and my DIL can go pick it up (they will bring it to the car) on WED> That was the earliest delivery date available.


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## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> i am talking about the administrative and legislative branches, the people who make the decisions and provide leadership, which isn't happening. Your Oklahoma Senator, Inhofe, is too busy protecting his stock holdings with insider trading to get a bill passed in the Senate to provide assistance, like masks and ventilators, to health care professionals. And for that matter my Senator Feinstein has potentially the same conflict. And for the record, I didn't vote for her in the last election.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


You'll be glad to know and I was ecstatic to read this afternoon *INHOLF IS NOT GOING TO RUN FOR ANOTHER TERM*!! :tea:

He and his ilk like Senator Lankford (whose only a tinsy-bit better) both voted Against the House Bill that provided a an tinsy-bit of funding help.

I didn't vote for either one of these guys.

Hummm... it's time for Feinstein to go... although she's looks really good to me considering what we've got in OK.


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## Tere

We are not on house arrest here in Florida(yet). Nothing much is open except essential stores. They closed the beaches yesterday so there is really nowhere to go. I haven't been anywhere in 10 days other than 2 visits to the grocery store. Many shelves are bare. Not one bit of meat to be bought here. I am very well stocked(except for meat) and expecting a dog food shipment from Chewy this week. No one I know has been able to get any meat or paper products for at least a week now! 
I did go to our private park today where I met a beautiful 14 year old Havanese with her elderly owner. We spoke about Havanese at a safe distance! It was the highlight of my day. 
Both my neighbor and I did yard work most of the day. It was nice to have the company and talk while we worked since we are both alone except for our dogs. She is doing the same thing I am, staying at home without visitors but several of the young families in our hood were having big gatherings of all their friends and tons of kids. Here it seems like only us older folks are taking this situation seriously.


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## EvaE1izabeth

Locally people seem to be following the guidelines pretty closely. Although, today DD wanted to go running with a friend. She came up with an elaborate social distancing strategy, and no one in either family has been sick, so I let her go running for half an hour. When she got back, she said something about climbing at this structure near our house and I was like, oh no. I mean, what’s the point of social distancing and carrying hand sanitizer if you’re climbing on the same equipment within minutes of each other? This is why schools are closed. DD has always been like a mini adult and is pretty OCD about Coronavirus, mostly because she’s been following it since the beginning, so to me it just demonstrates how easily things can happen. Better to stick with video calls for a little while longer! I do think in the near future we’ll be able to adapt and move forward a little better. When DD dance studio reopens, they’re planning on reducing class sizes and staggering classes all through the summer. Hopefully we’re using this time to address some of these things creatively in order to get everyone outside and into the world to some degree, because I don’t think this is going to resolve quickly. 

My biggest problem is that allergies have started here and I cannot stop touching my face. Good thing I’m indoors! The other day DS had a doctor appointment and I sort of choked on the gum I was chewing. I could not stop coughing for like 5 minutes. I wanted to yell out, “I’m not sick!” Because of social distancing, I was too far away from the other people in the waiting room and it would have been more awkward to say anything. I just avoided eye contact and remained mortified.


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## Molly120213

I am stressing a little bit about having to cut Molly’s nails now that the groomers are closed. Does anyone have any tips about cutting black nails when you can’t see the quick? Luckily she is in a puppy cut so as long as I keep her combed out that should not be a problem, except for maybe her sanitary area and paw pads.


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## Mikki

*"With F.D.R. and the Great Depression, the only thing to fear was fear itself. With Trump and our new abyss, we have to fear not only fear but also the ignorance and misdirection of the White House and the profiteering of senators. Not to mention the virus." Maureen Dowd, NYT*

Now WHO SAYS... lockdowns don't work. Test everyone ... then track down who they exposed. *WHAT THE HELL!!!* Sometimes GREAT ideas are not possible and maybe it's time to Shut The .... Up. :tape:

We're told to Support local businesses who are closed down by purchasing Gift Certificates. I'm not opposed to the idea. But, But, But .. whose going to have the money to do all this. Employees are laid off and have no income. They can't pay rent and landlords have mortgages, insurance and other expenses. The Stock Market is in Free Fall with no end in sight affecting long-term investors and retirees.

A quick ... miracle vaccine would turn things around, but China didn't find one. Maybe it'll happen.

God help us All...if there is one.

I need to stop reading the newspapers. I have family around. I'm not alone. I don't live in a big city and have plenty of space to walk around. No one I know, at this time, is sick. So far I don't have CoViD-19. Lots of things to be thankful for ... :whoo:.

Will make a Banana Bread dessert. Work on some digital art. Play a Mahjong game with DH. The grandkids are with their dad so my Mahjong partners are gone for now. DD isn't into Mahjong. My OTHER Mahjong buddies are Social Distancing ... This is CRAZY!!!! :Cry::Cry::Cry::Cry::Cry::Cry::Cry:

HAVE A GOOD DAY ....eace:


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## ShamaMama

The thought hadn't occurred to me that groomers would not be allowed to work ... Good luck with the nail trimming, Diane! I guess just start by taking off only a tiny bit at a time? Shama has a grooming appointment on Wednesday. We're not yet sheltering in place in Minnesota ... Tere, that's nice that you ran into another Havanese owner. That would be the highlight of my day, too. These little dogs are so sweet! I hope all the forum members who are feeling isolated know that we are always interested in hearing their updates. DH and I played three board games yesterday (Taverns of Tiefenthal, Architects of the West Kingdom, and Caverna), and we watched the Quentin Tarantino movie Inglourious Basterds. We've also been binging on the BBC series Broadchurch lately since we ran out of episodes of Criminal Minds. If you're looking for a new author to discover, I love Kate Morton! Start with the Forgotten Garden and the Secret Keeper. If you like audiobooks, Kate Morton's the Clockmaker's Daughter is read by the actress who plays Anna Bates on Downton Abbey. Another audiobook I enjoyed was the Nightingale by Kristin Hannah, because the reader was so talented. And listen to Trevor Noah's audiobook Born a Crime if you are fascinated by language and culture. (And David Sedaris's audiobook Me Talk Pretty One Day is hilarious!) To provide some entertainment to children who are practicing social distancing but who can go outside, a neighbor suggested that we all put pictures of bears in our windows so that everyone can go on a "bear hunt." We had a Smokey Bear picture to display. I do appreciate it that (here anyway, apparently not on some Florida beaches?) we can still go for walks. It's nice that the weather is warming up. Our highs will be in the 40s this week.


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## Mikki

*The Upsides of a Global Pandemic*
Five Ways Coronavirus is Finally Forcing Us to Make the (Radical) Socioeconomic Transformations We Should Have Made Long Ago

https://eand.co/the-upsides-of-a-global-pandemic-4dbb00be4a03

*Why did Coronavirus really begin and spread? Because some poor fellow in Wuhan ate a bat slaughtered in unsanitary conditions in a "wet market." In other words, because someone who's poor was forced to eat unsanitary food in an unhygienic way.*


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## Tere

I'm in the same situation, never trimmed black nails before and really hate trimming nails anyhow. I'm thinking that I have a file and I'm going to start using it everyday a bit and get him used to it.
My groomer has shut down. Who knows how long this could last so I will probably do some small grooming with scissors. Shadow has been acting very strange the last 3 days. He is almost afraid of something. Very strange times.


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## mudpuppymama

Molly120213 said:


> I am stressing a little bit about having to cut Molly's nails now that the groomers are closed. Does anyone have any tips about cutting black nails when you can't see the quick? Luckily she is in a puppy cut so as long as I keep her combed out that should not be a problem, except for maybe her sanitary area and paw pads.


You could just try using a nail file. This is the least likely method for you to hurt her and will get her used to YOU handling her nails. With a nail file you probably need to do it more often but it is at least something to do in the mean time.


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## mudpuppymama

There is an upside to all this. The local farmers and regenerative agriculturists are finally being appreciated. Many of them will ship food to you and you can bypass grocery stores altogether. I get my meat, eggs and milk from local farmers. The only thing I ever get at the grocery store are a few veggies and can live without them if necessary. I also make my own bread, kefir and yogurt. We are all dependent on the system but I think it is good to try to gain a bit of independence if possible. For example, learning to groom your own dog and cut its nails will reduce your dependency on a groomer. Learning about dog nutrition in case you ever need to make your own dog food is good to know too. Not being completely dependent on grocery stores for food is something to shoot for. If anyone is interested, Thrive Life sells freeze dried food which keeps for 25 years. Would not hurt to have that on hand too.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> Test everyone ... then track down who they exposed.


Good idea but there are only like 150,000 test kits available in the US right now and test results take a couple of weeks to process. A LOT of contamination can occur in two weeks as a result of casual contact. 
The good news is that a Silicon Valley high tech medical research company (one that trump cut funding to) announced yesterday that they have developed a simple test that involves taking a culture from the nostril and results are processed in 45 minutes! The FDA has already approved the test and it should be available to medical professionals "by the end of this month." We'll get through this, with or without government help.



> The Stock Market is in Free Fall with no end in sight affecting long-term investors and retirees.


Shut down the stock market until further notice.


> A quick ... miracle vaccine would turn things around, but China didn't find one. Maybe it'll happen.


But China did find a way to reduce contamination and the incidence of infection is decreasing rapidly. Why can't our government, the executive and administrative branches, do the same thing? I wish they were as good at containing the virus as they are at bashing the press.



> God help us All...if there is one.


"God" is in each one of us. We can help ourselves.



> Newspapers.


If the news is stressing you out, stop reading the newspapers and Internet and turn off the TV



> Will make a Banana Bread dessert.


That's a good alternative to listening to the news. What is your address? Ricky Ricardo and I will be by in a jiffy for some curbside pickup. We both LOVE banana bread! :hungry::hungry:



> HAVE A GOOD DAY


Any day I am above ground is a good day! :wink2: I'm having a VERY good day and feeling Irish feisty

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818

ShamaMama said:


> The thought hadn't occurred to me that groomers would not be allowed to work ... Good luck with the nail trimming


Well, we have mandatory sequestration in place but the groomers are still open - Ricky went yesterday. The deal is only one person is allowed inside at a time and you must maintain separation from the staff. The owner told me that they have not received direction from the State whether the are considered an essential or non-essential business. And they aren't asking either! I feel safe there because they are disinfecting everything, including door knobs, after each dog (but I wear nitrile gloves anyway). The owner said a dog owner could argue that the groomer is using a special medicated shampoo not available to the public and therefore is an essential service. Sooooooooooo, your decision, but be cautious.



> I hope all the forum members who are feeling isolated know that we are always interested in hearing their updates.


+1 +1 +1 +1 +1



> It's nice that the weather is warming up. Our highs will be in the 40s this week.


GOOD LORD! This takes me back to Scotland! :smow:

Ricky's Popi


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## mudpuppymama

One of my hobbies is reading autobiographies by survivors. These include WWII books by holocaust survivors, POWs, soldiers, shot down pilots, etc. I also have read stories by survivors of the Cambodian holocaust and the Rwanda holocaust. Currently reading a wonderful book by a man who was a Vietnam POW for 8 years. These people are amazing! And the suffering they have gone through is unbelievable. This corona virus is really nothing in comparison. These books are very inspiring to me...such wonderful attitudes amidst so much suffering. In fact the corona virus is much ado about nothing in my opinion. They say most of the people in Italy who died had two or three other diseases for example.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> *The Upsides of a Global Pandemic*
> Five Ways Coronavirus is Finally Forcing Us to Make the (Radical) Socioeconomic Transformations We Should Have Made Long Ago
> 
> https://eand.co/the-upsides-of-a-global-pandemic-4dbb00be4a03
> 
> *Why did Coronavirus really begin and spread? Because some poor fellow in Wuhan ate a bat slaughtered in unsanitary conditions in a "wet market." In other words, because someone who's poor was forced to eat unsanitary food in an unhygienic way.*


I don't "like" this post, *I LOVE THIS POST*

Ricky's Popi


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## mudpuppymama

If anyone wants a pleasant diversion, there are lots of live eagle cams to watch. They have their babies in February and fun to watch them. Here is an example.


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## hbmama

We brought home our 12 week old girl Taylor last Saturday. She is settling in beautifully and got a wonderful start on potty training from her amazing breeder, as well as socialization and crate training. She is such a funny, busy good girl. We are in love and she is making our "Safer at Home" mandate more fun.

I called our vet to make an appointment for her well puppy check. Here is the new Covid-19 protocol in Huntington Beach, California. I drove to the front of the vet clinic and parked. Then I called the front desk to let them know that we were there for our appointment. A few minutes later, an attendant came out to the car to pick up copies of Taylor's vaccinations and they gave me paperwork to fill out. They returned to the car after the paperwork was completed, and took her in her carrier into the clinic. I was not allowed to accompany her. (Each time the gloved attendants went in or out, they were cleaning and sanitizing the door handles.) 

Our vet brought her back to the car and gave me her report. She is 5.1 lbs, heart and lungs good, ears clean, patellas look good. (I also left a fresh stool sample with them for testing which was negative for parasites.) We will return at the end of April for her 3rd Parvo vaccine, then we will be able to get out and walk at the beach, with social distancing of course. 

Unfortunately it looked like a free for all spring break at the HB Pier yesterday with beach goers shoulder to shoulder. (My friend went down to the beach for a walk and sent me photos.) Our governor saw photos posted on facebook and was NOT amused. Our town was apparently featured on CNN as to what NOT to do in a pandemic. If this keeps up, we will have a lot more sick people and this will be drawn out for months.

Oh, and we were notified yesterday that our daughter's July 17th destination wedding at a Cancun Mexico resort has been canceled. This is going to be a long run I'm afraid. 

On a bright note, we have a warm puppy to play with and plenty of toilet paper. LOL


----------



## 31818

mudpuppymama said:


> One of my hobbies is reading autobiographies by survivors.


Ahhhhhh, now you have my interest! I highly recommend the book MINERVA REEF by Olaf Ruhen. It tells the story of Tevita Fifita who captained a small craft with the Tongan National Rugby Team to a match in Fiji in 1962. They hit the reef and had to survive for 14 weeks on an absolutely barren reef before being rescued. They had no radio communications and all their supplies were lost overboard. Half the time the reef was submerged under water. Some men died but through perseverance, ingenuity, creativity, and true grit, most survived.

This is personal. I had the honor of sailing with Tevita Fifita on his new boat, a 40 ft. sloop in those same Tongan waters in 1968. Momi and Popi were on his boat for 4 days making a 300 mile open ocean passage. 
Once in a lifetime experience.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## 31818

hbmama said:


> We brought home our 12 week old girl Taylor last Saturday. She is settling in beautifully and got a wonderful start on potty training from her amazing breeder, as well as socialization and crate training. She is such a funny, busy good girl. We are in love and she is making our "Safer at Home" mandate more fun.


Hot diggity doggie, Taylor sounds like a keeper to me!



> I called our vet to make an appointment for her well puppy check. Here is the new Covid-19 protocol in Huntington Beach, California. I drove to the front of the vet clinic and parked. Then I called the front desk to let them know that we were there for our appointment. A few minutes later, an attendant came out to the car to pick up copies of Taylor's vaccinations and they gave me paperwork to fill out. They returned to the car after the paperwork was completed, and took her in her carrier into the clinic. I was not allowed to accompany her. (Each time the gloved attendants went in or out, they were cleaning and sanitizing the door handles.)


Yup, same protocol at Ricky's Vet.



> Our vet brought her back to the car and gave me her report. She is 5.1 lbs, heart and lungs good, ears clean, patellas look good. (I also left a fresh stool sample with them for testing which was negative for parasites.) We will return at the end of April for her 3rd Parvo vaccine, then we will be able to get out and walk at the beach, with social distancing of course.


We are DEFINITELY going to have a beach meet up as soon as this mess is over, and it will end.



> On a bright note, we have a warm puppy to play with and plenty of toilet paper. LOL


DON'T LET HER NEAR THE TOILET PAPER! That's a Havapuppy's favorite toy. You will thank me for this advice later.

Ricky's Popi


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## mudpuppymama

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Ahhhhhh, now you have my interest! I highly recommend the book MINERVA REEF by Olaf Ruhen. It tells the story of Tevita Fifita who captained a small craft with the Tongan National Rugby Team to a match in Figi in 1962. They hit the reef and had to survive for 14 weeks on an absolutely barren reef before being rescued. They had no radio communications and all their supplies were lost overboard. Half the time the reef was submerged under water. Some men died but through perseverance, ingenuity, creativity, and true grit, most survived.
> 
> This is personal. I had the honor of sailing with Tevita Fifita on his new boat, a 40 ft. sloop in those same Tongan waters in 1968. Momi and Popi were on his boat for 4 days making a 300 mile open ocean passage.
> Once in a lifetime experience.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Thanks for the recommendation! I am always on the lookout for great survivor stories.


----------



## Wulfin

Things aren't quite so crazy here.
I mean, we are doing social distancing and all, but that's as far as we are so far. 

My 6yo is home from school until September, so we're pretending we know how to teach while we both work from home. My job is always from home, so that hasn't changed though we are busier than ever. My husband is home though and he doesn't handle stress well and you can tell that working here is stressing him out so I worry about the long term.

Denver is loving having everyone home. He was supposed to get his groom this upcoming thursday, but my groomer was competing as part of Mastergroom Canada down in the US so she's in quarantine for another week. Hopefully he will get in soon though. I'm beginning to think I might keep him at the length that he is now, but I'm not 100% on this yet.

We are watching our potential puppy through facebook pictures and video. I was supposed to go up to the breeder's this past week but they (understandably) decided that it would be best to restrict visitors for now. I worry about the socialization of this litter, but I'm sure they will come up with something. They like the puppies to meet 50 people before they are sent home at 10 weeks, not sure what they'll do for this litter though. We're also hashing out the contract through email instead of in person which is a little rougher (he's a show potential, so it's a little different than the companion contract we had for Denver).

My parents are currently down in Palm Springs and will hopefully be driving home in a week or so. Their insurance runs out tomorrow, so I'm worried about what might happen if they get sick - so I'm crossing my fingers that they stay well. They are pretty unconcerned, unlike me.

But all in all, we are doing good.


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## ShamaMama

Thanks for the update, Wulfin! Is the school providing distance learning for your son/daughter? Can we see a current photo of Denver? Yes, I do wonder how those puppies will be able to meet 50 people in the current climate ...


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## Mikki

ShamaMama said:


> Thanks for the update, Wulfin! Is the school providing distance learning for your son/daughter? Can we see a current photo of Denver? Yes, I do wonder how those puppies will be able to meet 50 people in the current climate ...


I was wondering how they met 50 people at all.... Why does a puppy need to meet 50 people?


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## Wulfin

Yes to distance learning, we are getting set up on google classroom this week, and she has a couple of apps like prodigy and squigglepark that they were using in the class that we can use at home. However, her work at home has no bearing on a final grade. She’s already received that. 

Puppies should have met 100 people by 12 weeks, so if you get your puppy at 10 weeks, you’re already 2 weeks into a critical socialization period, so she likes to do half the work for you. Once the puppies are old enough, she basically asks for people to come visit them (the families that will be getting the puppies, friends and extended family members of those homes), vet office, etc. The numbers actually add up really fast that way. Denver as a young puppy even went into a seniors care facility at about 9 weeks old. Of course right now things like that aren’t possible!

Here’s Denver’s most recent picture when the rascal stole my daughters PJ top yesterday ..


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## ShamaMama

Mikki, you have to read these two publications!

https://www.havaneseforum.com/8-puppy-area/123097-excellent-puppy-resources.html

Wulfin, thanks for the updated photos of Denver! He is adorable!


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## EvaE1izabeth

Ricky Ricardo said:


> The owner told me that they have not received direction from the State whether the are considered an essential or non-essential business. And they aren't asking either!


My state listed pet services as essential. They didn't specify "grooming," but pet stores are open. I don't think it's a stretch to make the case that they are often essential to the animal. There is so little human contact, it's a shame that a group of professionals that could creatively mitigate risk would be forced out of work (unless they choose not to). It's important to pause and make choices about managing this, but the question should be, what can we do over the course of the next three months to make changes that will allow people to live and work as much as possible? I think most of us are willing to do whatever it takes to protect people. Considering ways people CAN do things is important along with the restrictions. Unfortunately, it's hard to make the shift in perspective when so much time and energy has to be spent managing compliance and dealing with huge problems like supply shortages. DD's recital was cancelled, understandably. The sad thing is that the kids could really use a project like putting together a "recital compilation video." But most people are just in wait and see mode, hoping everything will open again soon and they can just reschedule it.


----------



## krandall

Molly120213 said:


> I am stressing a little bit about having to cut Molly's nails now that the groomers are closed. Does anyone have any tips about cutting black nails when you can't see the quick? Luckily she is in a puppy cut so as long as I keep her combed out that should not be a problem, except for maybe her sanitary area and paw pads.


If you MUST clip, get a set of Resco clippers. They are much sharper and prevent any pinching, which makes it more comfortable. Then just take little bits at a time. You will see a bit of white in the middle. When you see a TINY BLACK SPOT in the middle of the white, that is the quick, and you need to stop. If you go any further, you will quick her. Have Quick Stop on hand in case you do quick her, and IF you do, DON'T PANIC! It happens, and it's NOT the end of the world. Hold the Quick Stop on it with some pressure (corn starch will work if you don't have Quick Stop, but it doesn't work as well or as fast) ad it WILL stop bleeding. EVERYONE quicks a dog once in a while.

But I'd really suggest that you get a Dremel and learn to use it. Once you learn the technique, and get the dog used to it, it is SO much easier, and the dogs relax because they KNOW you aren't going to quick them!


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## krandall

ShamaMama said:


> And listen to Trevor Noah's audiobook Born a Crime if you are fascinated by language and culture. (And David Sedaris's audiobook Me Talk Pretty One Day is hilarious!) To provide some entertainment to children who are practicing social distancing but who can go outside, a neighbor suggested that we all put pictures of bears in our windows so that everyone can go on a "bear hunt." We had a Smokey Bear picture to display. I do appreciate it that (here anyway, apparently not on some Florida beaches?) we can still go for walks. It's nice that the weather is warming up. Our highs will be in the 40s this week.


I LOVED Trevor Noah's book! (Of course, I love him too!) I'll look up the other one. And what a great idea the "Bear hunt" is!

Massachusetts just went on a Stay Home order as of noon tomorrow.


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## krandall

Tere said:


> I'm in the same situation, never trimmed black nails before and really hate trimming nails anyhow. I'm thinking that I have a file and I'm going to start using it everyday a bit and get him used to it.
> My groomer has shut down. Who knows how long this could last so I will probably do some small grooming with scissors. Shadow has been acting very strange the last 3 days. He is almost afraid of something. Very strange times.


My dogs are acting "different" too (as is my 20-month-old granddaughter) They can all tell we are worried. Panda is sitting on my foot. ALL.THE.TIME.


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## krandall

mudpuppymama said:


> There is an upside to all this. The local farmers and regenerative agriculturists are finally being appreciated. Many of them will ship food to you and you can bypass grocery stores altogether. I get my meat, eggs and milk from local farmers. The only thing I ever get at the grocery store are a few veggies and can live without them if necessary. I also make my own bread, kefir and yogurt. We are all dependent on the system but I think it is good to try to gain a bit of independence if possible. For example, learning to groom your own dog and cut its nails will reduce your dependency on a groomer. Learning about dog nutrition in case you ever need to make your own dog food is good to know too. Not being completely dependent on grocery stores for food is something to shoot for. If anyone is interested, Thrive Life sells freeze dried food which keeps for 25 years. Would not hurt to have that on hand too.


I just ordered a bread machine. I'm not going to start making bread COMPLETELY by hand, but we used to have a bread machine when the kids were little and used it all the time. Eventually, it just sort of wore out and became unreliable, and we never replaced it. And it was one of those that made the tall, narrow loaves, unlike the new ones that make "loaf-shaped loaves. So I'm kind of looking forward to the new one!


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## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> GOOD LORD! This takes me back to Scotland! :smow:
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Hardly a flake of snow all winter, and now...

And my gardens just got cleaned up edged and mulched last week! LOL!


----------



## krandall

mudpuppymama said:


> One of my hobbies is reading autobiographies by survivors. These include WWII books by holocaust survivors, POWs, soldiers, shot down pilots, etc. I also have read stories by survivors of the Cambodian holocaust and the Rwanda holocaust. Currently reading a wonderful book by a man who was a Vietnam POW for 8 years. These people are amazing! And the suffering they have gone through is unbelievable. This corona virus is really nothing in comparison. These books are very inspiring to me...such wonderful attitudes amidst so much suffering. In fact the corona virus is much ado about nothing in my opinion. They say most of the people in Italy who died had two or three other diseases for example.


A Jewish friend of mine just posted on FB... WE're all complaining about staying in our cushy houses for two weeks to keep others safe from this virus? Why not read "Diary of Anne Frank" while we're "cooped up" and think about the time SHE spent in that tiny space, trying just to stay alive. We really ARE a bunch of babies...


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## Mikki

krandall said:


> I just ordered a bread machine. I'm not going to start making bread COMPLETELY by hand, but we used to have a bread machine when the kids were little and used it all the time. Eventually, it just sort of wore out and became unreliable, and we never replaced it. And it was one of those that made the tall, narrow loaves, unlike the new ones that make "loaf-shaped loaves. So I'm kind of looking forward to the new one!


Long AGO...I use to make Sour Dough Bread and created my own starter. It takes about two weeks to make Sour Dough starter and you need to use about one cup a week, or throw out a cup and add to it to keep it going. Lots of fun and you can share the Starter with friends and family.

I was in a Blue Zone Life Long Learning Class, a couple of weeks ago and a family in one of the Blue Zones had a starter that was 200 years old!!! How 'bout that.

I've been thinking about doing that again and agree a Bread Machine is easier and fun.


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## Mikki

For my family a Stay At Home order isn't a huge deal, especially for two weeks. It's not like we are trapped in our house. We can go outside. Take a walk. Work in the yard. Go to the grocery store or any store that's open. Go to a Drive Thru. You can have friends over but that's probably a bad idea. 

What I wonder is .. is Two Weeks Long enough considering everyone's not going to do it. The experts say: if EVERYONE STAYED AT HOME FOR TWO WEEKS, CoViD-19 would not disappear. But, that ain't gonna happen in the US.


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## EvaE1izabeth

krandall said:


> I just ordered a bread machine. I'm not going to start making bread COMPLETELY by hand, but we used to have a bread machine when the kids were little and used it all the time. Eventually, it just sort of wore out and became unreliable, and we never replaced it. And it was one of those that made the tall, narrow loaves, unlike the new ones that make "loaf-shaped loaves. So I'm kind of looking forward to the new one!


I completely forgot about bread machines! My parents had one when i was growing up and it was always a treat. My husband and I had one when we were first married and at one point my mom gave us a wheat grinder and came over to teach me how to do it. I never used the wheat grinder again, I have no idea where it is, but as long as it lasted my husband made bread with it. We lost a small part and ended up getting rid of the bread maker due to counter space, but we always said we'd get another one. DH still made bread after that, but he hasn't made it in ages. My sister even gave him fancy loaf pans because in our family he's famous for it. I bet he'd love a bread machine! He also had a sourdough starter that was like his baby for years. It sounds like a really fun idea during the time home, and I love the idea of the house smelling good like bread while we're all crammed in here together


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## mudpuppymama

krandall said:


> I just ordered a bread machine. I'm not going to start making bread COMPLETELY by hand, but we used to have a bread machine when the kids were little and used it all the time. Eventually, it just sort of wore out and became unreliable, and we never replaced it. And it was one of those that made the tall, narrow loaves, unlike the new ones that make "loaf-shaped loaves. So I'm kind of looking forward to the new one!


I bet it tastes much better than the bread from the store! I retired a few years ago and one of my goals was to learn how to make homemade sourdough from einkorn wheat. This was fairly challenging for me and I almost tore my hair out a few times. However, I finally conquered it and can produce a consistent loaf that will not serve as a door stop!


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## mudpuppymama

Mikki said:


> I was wondering how they met 50 people at all.... Why does a puppy need to meet 50 people?


My dogs are both very well socialized but I don't think my yorkie met more than 10 people during that time period. I got Mia at four months so not sure how many people she saw during that period. I would think meeting that many people could be challenging for some, for example people who live in remote places.


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## ShamaMama

We got a dusting of snow the past two mornings, but the snow melted during the day. Yesterday, I trimmed back some shrubs. Today there are only two small bits of snow remaining in the back yard. My mouth is watering at the thought of freshly baked bread ...


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## 31818

Texas Lt. Governor, Dan Patrick, said on a popular radical right wing cable channel yesterday that "stay at home" and social distancing mandates should be eliminated even though that puts senior citizens at risk! He said that seniors should be willing to die, to give up their life, to save the Dow and the economy! Evidently, the "president" is buying into this morbid philosophy. THIS IS GETTING PERSONAL This is one senior citizen who is NOT willing to give up his life so that one dog waste, super rich oligarch can make a little less profit. Is anyone willing to make the choice and pick which one of their grandparents is going to die so that they can go party and get drunk at the beach? I am angry! This is getting very personal. :flame:

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Texas Lt. Governor, Dan Patrick, said on a popular radical right wing cable channel yesterday that "stay at home" and social distancing mandates should be eliminated even though that puts senior citizens at risk! He said that seniors should be willing to die, to give up their life, to save the Dow and the economy! Evidently, the "president" is buying into this morbid philosophy. THIS IS GETTING PERSONAL This is one senior citizen who is NOT willing to give up his life so that one dog waste, super rich oligarch can make a little less profit. Is anyone willing to make the choice and pick which one of their grandparents is going to die so that they can go party and get drunk at the beach? I am angry! This is getting very personal. :flame:
> 
> Ricky's Popi


You are NOT the only one, Popi! I would say I can't believe what comes out of the man's mouth, but of course, by this point, NOTHING surprises me.


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Texas Lt. Governor, Dan Patrick, said on a popular radical right wing cable channel yesterday that "stay at home" and social distancing mandates should be eliminated even though that puts senior citizens at risk! He said that seniors should be willing to die, to give up their life, to save the Dow and the economy! Evidently, the "president" is buying into this morbid philosophy. THIS IS GETTING PERSONAL This is one senior citizen who is NOT willing to give up his life so that one dog waste, super rich oligarch can make a little less profit. Is anyone willing to make the choice and pick which one of their grandparents is going to die so that they can go party and get drunk at the beach? I am angry! This is getting very personal. :flame:
> 
> Ricky's Popi


It's sad that it's politicized this way. It's hard to compare the U.S. to other countries because of the enormous difference in sizes and structures, but it's interesting to hear that in some other countries the fear over the economy and missed wages is different. It's still a concern, but it doesn't seem to be such an urgent matter because people know they'll be able to apply for reimbursement for lost wages. People still seem to complain about the restrictions and the situation in general but there doesn't seem to be the same desperate pushback.

There are reasons why the u.s. is the way it is, and I don't know that we could ever become like some of the small European countries, even if we wanted to. But I do see there are advantages to their systems in times like these.

I cringe when I see posts on Facebook about the cure being worse than the disease. I get the frustration, especially because in general the situation hasn't been handled well. But if it was their mother, their grandfather, would they say that? With all of the unknowns, would they take the same risks if it was their child with asthma? I choose to ignore the comments, knowing most people (maybe not politicians) will look back and feel they put their foot in their mouth.


----------



## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Texas Lt. Governor, Dan Patrick, said on a popular radical right wing cable channel yesterday that "stay at home" and social distancing mandates should be eliminated even though that puts senior citizens at risk! He said that seniors should be willing to die, to give up their life, to save the Dow and the economy! Evidently, the "president" is buying into this morbid philosophy. THIS IS GETTING PERSONAL This is one senior citizen who is NOT willing to give up his life so that one dog waste, super rich oligarch can make a little less profit. Is anyone willing to make the choice and pick which one of their grandparents is going to die so that they can go party and get drunk at the beach? I am angry! This is getting very personal. :flame:
> 
> Ricky's Popi


*SERIOUSLY!!!!! They are finally saying it OUT LOUD.*

Do these people think pretending nothing is happening, that this will make the Stock Market jump back up to 29,000 and that it'll kill only a bunch of Old People?

The hospitals will become overwhelmed, more than they're going to be. Healthcare Staff will get sick, some will die and eventually they'll walk away. There won't be enough room or time to take care of sick people who don't have CoVid-19. How do companies keep their door opens when a large number of employees will get sick? That's what happened in China.

Maybe the Republican plan is about putting up tents and warehousing old people and others with the disease ... and take a wait and see if they die.

Did you see the obese, unhealthy, elderly Orange President move away from his health expert last night when she described feeling bad and when she checked her Temp it was up... but after taking the CoVid-19 Test found she didn't have it. >

He's at the Top of the List of someone who won't make it through the disease when he gets it.

If America had, had good leadership and looked to other countries, we could have stopped the CoViD-19 months ago if the Government had put a two-week NATIONAL Shelter in Place plan and had conducted testing to see who had it and where it was.

I don't see a good result going forward. Let the Youngins' Party and get sick. :deadhorse:

Us Elders should Shelter in Place and cross our fingers. :tea:

Not every Elderly person dies from it. Not every young person Survives. Like it or Not ... we are ALL in this together.

The health expert who replaced the more knowledgeable Dr. Fauci last night did explain the 40% to 80% expected infection rate...that it is an expected INFECTION RATE over a TWO TO THREE year period. Not an infection rate over the next few months or year. Before then there should be a vaccine. Keeping My Fingers Crossed it's Sooner rather than Later.


----------



## ShamaMama

Below is a link to a really good article about the pandemic called "That Discomfort You're Feeling is Grief."

https://hbr.org/2020/03/that-discom...qad-GfMTT6_Hcp_ytepXFah30uvVNMHnbri4RB6GmVPC4


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> Before then there should be a vaccine. Keeping My Fingers Crossed it's Sooner rather than Later.


 I was talking to a neighbor yesterday (on the phone) about the virus. Chloroquine phosphate has been touted as a possible antidote to the C-19 virus, but it will take several weeks to insure its efficacy. My neighbor told me that her daughter has been taking Chloroquine for years for a health issue. She is running low on her prescription. Her doctor told her he can't refill it because it is not available now. He said there is hoarding going on by pharmaceutical companies to make huge profits once it is approved. For my neighbor's daughter, that would be a death sentence if she can't get a refill in a couple of weeks.

I'm not feeling very good about the American culture right now.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## ShamaMama

"A Phoenix-area man is dead and his wife is under critical care after the two took chloroquine phosphate in an apparent attempt to self-medicate for the novel coronavirus ..."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/health/arizona-coronavirus-chloroquine-death/index.html


----------



## Mikki

ShamaMama said:


> Below is a link to a really good article about the pandemic called "That Discomfort You're Feeling is Grief."
> 
> https://hbr.org/2020/03/that-discom...qad-GfMTT6_Hcp_ytepXFah30uvVNMHnbri4RB6GmVPC4


This is a good article. I'll pass it along. Thanks~


----------



## 31818

*How to wash your hands*

I have not been washing my hands properly. Attached is a very good video explaining how good hand washing technique destroys the virus on your hands.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I have not been washing my hands properly. Attached is a very good video explaining how good hand washing technique destroys the virus on your hands.
> 
> Ricky's Popi
> 
> How to wash your hands


My kids are obsessed with all of the different "wash your hands" songs that have come out lately. They get a kick out of them. There are some great public announcement videos, lots of funny music videos, in all different languages on YouTube and tiktok right now - there's a South Korean "hand washing dance" and a Taylor Swift parody by the Holderness family that they like. It's a nice way to take a break from the seriousness of the issue


----------



## Heather's

DH is tired of me reminding him to wash his hands and rub vigorously 20-30 secs. every time he comes into the house. For years in the hospital we were expected to gel before entering a room. Wash hands in the room and then glove. Exiting another hand wash and gel outside the room. I've been through years flu seasons and it does work with a mask. I've only had the flu once...last year when I retired.


----------



## BoosDad

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Texas Lt. Governor, Dan Patrick, said on a popular radical right wing cable channel yesterday that "stay at home" and social distancing mandates should be eliminated even though that puts senior citizens at risk! He said that seniors should be willing to die, to give up their life, to save the Dow and the economy! Evidently, the "president" is buying into this morbid philosophy. THIS IS GETTING PERSONAL This is one senior citizen who is NOT willing to give up his life so that one dog waste, super rich oligarch can make a little less profit. Is anyone willing to make the choice and pick which one of their grandparents is going to die so that they can go party and get drunk at the beach? I am angry! This is getting very personal. :flame:
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I wholeheartedly concur. Lt. Governor Dan Patrick is a nutjob! Further, this current Federal Administration is completely toxic. Just glad to be in SoCal.


----------



## krandall

BoosDad said:


> I wholeheartedly concur. Lt. Governor Dan Patrick is a nutjob! Further, this current Federal Administration is completely toxic. Just glad to be in SoCal.


And the president right behind him. I am a Christian, and Easter is our most important holy day. And I am SURE that God does not have in mind that we should have "the churches packed with people" on this Easter Sunday. I firmly believe that God gives us the tools to help ourselves. And one of the tools is smart scientists who make decisions driven by data, not worry about the next election and their approval rating.


----------



## 31818

CAREFUL!!!!!!!!! It's a TRAP!



Ricky's Popi


----------



## krandall

LOL!


----------



## 31818

I'm in a good mood today! You have got to click on this link! It is the funniest dog/Covid-19 video yet. you will not be disappointed! (Pluto says, "practice social distancing right now, don't go sniffing people's crotch"! ound

Ricky's Popi

a-funny-talking-dog-gives-tips-on-living-right-during-the-coronavirus-crisis?


----------



## krandall

I’ve seen it, but you’re right, it’s adorable!


----------



## nwhavmom

I use a crystal pet nail file from amazon every couple of days. My pup is relaxed and it is so easy to do. You can get closer to the quick than with clippers and never cause pain.

Amazon.com: Dog Fashion Spa Crystal Glass Nail File for Dogs


----------



## 31818

*FREE AT LAST!*

Tonight I have completed my 14 day self-quarantine as a result of my visit to Scotland and England two weeks ago. :whoo: Nary a sign of the virus! BUT, I will continue to practice caution by social distancing and staying at home. Today we did take Ricky for his bi-weekly brush out at the groomer, but they have set up a procedure so that when we arrive, we honk the horn from the parking lot to alert them to our presence and then we put Ricky into an outdoor pen and get back into the car. They then come out and pick him up and then they call us when he is done and we repeat the routine in reverse. Works great! We also picked up lunch while Ricky was at the groomer. Restaurant was closed but they had take out. There was one other person inside (beside the staff behind a distant counter) and it was easy to maintain about 20 feet separation. I walked with Ricky 3 miles this morning and saw plenty of neighbors doing the same but we all kept our distance. We are settling into a routine and everyone is happy and contented. It gives me great pleasure to defy the so called president's suggestion that seniors should go out and mingle to benefit the economy of the wealthy even if it costs our lives. The three of us are in this self imposed sequestration for the long run, as long as it takes, and to heck with the economy. Let the so called president go out and mingle and see if he is willing to risk his life! BTW, I can't get a C-19 test unless I exhibit symptoms (even if I was exposed to the virus), yet the so called president got a C-19 test without having any symptoms! I am angry because he thinks I am disposable and he isn't! This isn't about politics, this is about self-preservation!

Ricky's Popi


----------



## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Tonight I have completed my 14 day self-quarantine as a result of my visit to Scotland and England two weeks ago. :whoo: Nary a sign of the virus! BUT, I will continue to practice caution by social distancing and staying at home. Today we did take Ricky for his bi-weekly brush out at the groomer, but they have set up a procedure so that when we arrive, we honk the horn from the parking lot to alert them to our presence and then we put Ricky into an outdoor pen and get back into the car. They then come out and pick him up and then they call us when he is done and we repeat the routine in reverse. Works great! We also picked up lunch while Ricky was at the groomer. Restaurant was closed but they had take out. There was one other person inside (beside the staff behind a distant counter) and it was easy to maintain about 20 feet separation. I walked with Ricky 3 miles this morning and saw plenty of neighbors doing the same but we all kept our distance. We are settling into a routine and everyone is happy and contented. It gives me great pleasure to defy the so called president's suggestion that seniors should go out and mingle to benefit the economy of the wealthy even if it costs our lives. The three of us are in this self imposed sequestration for the long run, as long as it takes, and to heck with the economy. Let the so called president go out and mingle and see if he is willing to risk his life! BTW, I can't get a C-19 test unless I exhibit symptoms (even if I was exposed to the virus), yet the so called president got a C-19 test without having any symptoms! I am angry because he thinks I am disposable and he isn't! This isn't about politics, this is about self-preservation!
> 
> Ricky's Popi


You can't necessarily get a test even WITH SYMPTOMS... and with significantly at-risk prople living in the house with you... At least in MA...


----------



## 31818

krandall said:


> You can't necessarily get a test even WITH SYMPTOMS... and with significantly at-risk prople living in the house with you... At least in MA...


Yet the president got a test, the veep got one, and members of Congress (e.g. Romney) get them with ease and all were negative. In some States, even if you contract the virus and are seriously ill, that doesn't necessarily mean you will be admitted to the hospital because of the shortage of ventilators. Medical staff are having to choose who lives and who dies. Priority for life is being given to younger people, those under 60 and that age is even dropping as the contraction rate increases and shortages become more acute. The so called president wants us to go out and mingle in two weeks on Easter to save the economy and HIS self preservation in office. I'M NOT GOING TO DO THAT!

MY PCP told me (we have non-essential appointments through cel video now and I had another non-virus health issue that needed immediate attention) That should I contract the virus and become seriously ill and they don't have room for me in the hospital,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I can try using my CPAP machine (I have diagnosed Sleep Apnea) as a rudimentary ventilator at home. He said there is some anecdotal evidence that has worked for some patients but there has been no studies to confirm the efficacy. Anyway, if you have a CPAP machine at home you can always try that hack even if you don't have Sleep Apnea.

i don't understand why the richest country in the world with the largest manufacturing capability cannot provide for the health of its residents, unless we are living in a house of cards and there is no substance behind the illusion.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## mudpuppymama

nwhavmom said:


> I use a crystal pet nail file from amazon every couple of days. My pup is relaxed and it is so easy to do. You can get closer to the quick than with clippers and never cause pain.
> 
> Amazon.com: Dog Fashion Spa Crystal Glass Nail File for Dogs


I have tried this file but my dogs prefer a plain old coarse nail file. The glass file seems to make a slight squeaky sound when I file with it so wondering if that is what they don't like. However, it is a great nail file if your dog likes it.


----------



## mudpuppymama

I must have missed where Trump told seniors to go out and mingle. When did he say that?


----------



## 31818

:thumb:


mudpuppymama said:


> I must have missed where Trump told seniors to go out and mingle. When did he say that?


He didn't specifically say "seniors' should go out to mingle, he said "everyone" should go out and mingle. Even if I stay at home, I have a greater chance of contraction from younger people who go out and mingle then deliver my groceries, deliver my mail and prescriptions, drop off my Amazon orders (I have ordered a bidet toilet seat so we can cut the tyranny of toilet paper), and then the electrician who installs said Amazon orders. Yes, the so called president said that two days ago as well as the Lt. Gov. of Texas, as well as some Congressmen, as well as pundits on a popular radical right wing cable channel. Anyone who is not aware of this is just ......... unaware.

@mudpuppymama if you want to go out and mingle to save the economy, please feel free to do so, just don't infect someone else. It takes up to 14 days after you contract C-19 to show symptoms. That would be irresponsible and I know you are not. :thumb:

Ricky's Popi


----------



## mudpuppymama

Ricky Ricardo said:


> :thumb:
> He didn't specifically say "seniors' should go out to mingle, he said "everyone" should go out and mingle. Even if I stay at home, I have a greater chance of contraction from younger people who go out and mingle then deliver my groceries, deliver my mail and prescriptions, drop off my Amazon orders (I have ordered a bidet toilet seat so we can cut the tyranny of toilet paper), and then the electrician who installs said Amazon orders. Yes, the so called president said that two days ago as well as the Lt. Gov. of Texas, as well as some Congressmen, as well as pundits on a popular radical right wing cable channel. Anyone who is not aware of this is just ......... unaware.
> 
> @mudpuppymama if you want to go out and mingle to save the economy, please feel free to do so, just don't infect someone else. It takes up to 14 days after you contract C-19 to show symptoms. That would be irresponsible and I know you are not. :thumb:
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I am not planning on going anywhere except to our farm which is in the boonies. Very well stocked here and I rarely go to the grocery store anyway. I just don't recall the president telling us to go out and mingle. In fact I just got a card in the mail from Trump advising us to all stay home. That is why I am confused.


----------



## ShamaMama

Ricky Ricardo said:


> (I have ordered a bidet toilet seat so we can cut the tyranny of toilet paper)


THAT is a riot! Go Popi, go Popi!


----------



## ShamaMama

Yesterday, the governor of Minnesota (a former public high school social studies teacher from the city where DH and I currently live) issued a "stay at home" order.

Here's an interesting article even if you don't live in Minnesota.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/03/25/minnesotas-covid19-stayathome-order-what-you-need-to-know

Governor Walz said the Minnesota company Medtronic manufactures 15% of the ventilators that are in use in health care facilities worldwide.


----------



## ShamaMama

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I'm in a good mood today! You have got to click on this link! It is the funniest dog/Covid-19 video yet. you will not be disappointed! (Pluto says, "practice social distancing right now, don't go sniffing people's crotch"! ound
> 
> Ricky's Popi
> 
> a-funny-talking-dog-gives-tips-on-living-right-during-the-coronavirus-crisis?


Yes, that video is HILARIOUS! I posted it in this thread started by davetgabby. If anyone has any other fun videos that would allow us all to take a break from depressing topics, please post them in this thread:

https://www.havaneseforum.com/27-coffee-shop/135804-time-break.html


----------



## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Yet the president got a test, the veep got one, and members of Congress (e.g. Romney) get them with ease and all were negative. In some States, even if you contract the virus and are seriously ill, that doesn't necessarily mean you will be admitted to the hospital because of the shortage of ventilators. Medical staff are having to choose who lives and who dies. Priority for life is being given to younger people, those under 60 and that age is even dropping as the contraction rate increases and shortages become more acute. The so called president wants us to go out and mingle in two weeks on Easter to save the economy and HIS self preservation in office. I'M NOT GOING TO DO THAT!
> 
> MY PCP told me (we have non-essential appointments through cel video now and I had another non-virus health issue that needed immediate attention) That should I contract the virus and become seriously ill and they don't have room for me in the hospital,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I can try using my CPAP machine (I have diagnosed Sleep Apnea) as a rudimentary ventilator at home. He said there is some anecdotal evidence that has worked for some patients but there has been no studies to confirm the efficacy. Anyway, if you have a CPAP machine at home you can always try that hack even if you don't have Sleep Apnea.
> 
> i don't understand why the richest country in the world with the largest manufacturing capability cannot provide for the health of its residents, unless we are living in a house of cards and there is no substance behind the illusion.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


And the federal government outbid my state THREE TIMES on needed PPE (which they are now stockpiling rather than distributing) even though they SAID they would not do that.


----------



## krandall

mudpuppymama said:


> I am not planning on going anywhere except to our farm which is in the boonies. Very well stocked here and I rarely go to the grocery store anyway. I just don't recall the president telling us to go out and mingle. In fact I just got a card in the mail from Trump advising us to all stay home. That is why I am confused.


I think that was that crazy LT governor from Texas. Trump said he wants everyone in church on Easter morning though, which is JUST as ludicrous.


----------



## 31818

Just received the following this morning from the management team in our 55+ community. It has some great ideas for those who are going to ignore the so called president and stay at home.

******

YOU ARE NOT ALONE! HERE ARE SOME GREAT LINKS TO TRY FROM THE COMFORT OF YOUR HOME!

Not able to see your young grandchildren right now? Record a bedtime story for them or share a story from this website:
Storyline Online is a creative literary resource for K-4th graders. The platform gets your favorite celebrities to read children's books and provides engaging visuals for any student to follow along.
https://www.storylineonline.net/

Stream musicals, concerts, and plays featuring some of your favorite artists like Cynthia Erivo and Billy Porter from this list that is updated daily
Free musicals and plays you can now stream during the Coronavirus outbreak [UPDATING DAILY] - Stream Broadway Shows & Musicals Online | Filmed on Stage

Everyday, the Social Distancing Festival features new work from photography exhibitions to performances from opera and broadway artists. Participate in their worldwide community celebrating art. 
https://www.socialdistancingfestiva...-WvAPK-QB7yJEWCxUOIkglc7FE9TGRuIljFedjbmFcpUU

Picasso Museum, Barcelona Virtually stroll around the courtyards of Barcelona's famous Picasso Museum, while learning about the building's architecture.

********************

Also, I am on a community advisory committee. We had a virtual meeting on the Internet this morning. There were about 10 people in attendance. We used a free app called ZOOM (zoom.com). It worked great - everybody was on individual cameras on their computer or you could sign in on your cel phone with no video (Ricky was even at the meeting while sitting on my lap in front of my computer! :grin2: he was a good boy and was totally fascinated by the people talking on the screen in front of him ). This gave me an idea, Momi, Popi, and Ricky could have family get-togethers using ZOOM. It's not as good as being physically together, but hey it fulfills a need and is good enough during these tough times. Some of the schools here in California are using video to conduct virtual classes. I think this could have some traction in the future. I hope that some good will result from this mess.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## 31818

mudpuppymama said:


> I am not planning on going anywhere except to our farm which is in the boonies. Very well stocked here and I rarely go to the grocery store anyway.


Good strategy! Momi and I were talking about this subject yesterday. Our parents and grandparents lived through the Great Depression 90 years ago. People were much more adaptable and resourceful then. Most people had home gardens and a couple of farm animals (chickens) and provided for their own necessities. They didn't need toilet paper since they had the Sears catalog in an outhouse as a standby (seriously). We don't have a home garden and most catalogs have gone online. We have become 'soft' as a society and the most adaptable and resourceful will have the best chance of survival.



ShamaMama said:


> Go Popi, go Popi!


That's exactly what I'm going to do with my new bidet toilet seat! :tea:

Ricky's Popi


----------



## ShamaMama

We could have a zoom meeting where we all hold our Havanese for the camera ... I could host and invite you all through a link ...


----------



## 31818

ShamaMama said:


> We could have a zoom meeting where we all hold our Havanese for the camera ... I could host and invite you all through a link ...


Brilliant, absolutely BRILLIANT! At our video meeting this morning, one of the participants said they were on another ZOOM meeting yesterday and had 25 participants with no problem. Let's do it! I'm going to start a new thread to see if we can coordinate this. Mama, I will be happy to assist you.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## ShamaMama

Excellent! Can you start a new thread with a poll asking people when they want to have the meeting? I'm available anytime during the day tomorrow or Saturday. Next week, I start teaching again, so ideally we do it before then ...


----------



## mudpuppymama

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Good strategy! Momi and I were talking about this subject yesterday. Our parents and grandparents lived through the Great Depression 90 years ago. People were much more adaptable and resourceful then. Most people had home gardens and a couple of farm animals (chickens) and provided for their own necessities. They didn't need toilet paper since they had the Sears catalog in an outhouse as a standby (seriously). We don't have a home garden and most catalogs have gone online. We have become 'soft' as a society and the most adaptable and resourceful will have the best chance.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Great points. We have been trying to become more self reliant for several years now which is one reason we are moving to the country where we can raise more of our own food and not be dependent upon city water, grocery stores, etc. I wish they would teach some of the old skills to kids these days. We watch several YouTube channels where millennials have left the city and trying to be more independent which is very encouraging. Even in the city people can have backyard gardens.


----------



## Mikki

*Nothing much is funny these days ... but this a VERY GOOD AND FUNNY TRUMP IMPRESSION.* Click or Paste this link into your browser.

https://digg.com/2020/trump-impress...NwMeOriAvxzbfUxZGprGaNmgoi_UpuRcXCdSak-WVdROY opcorn:

*FYI...NPR...HAS QUIT COVERING TRUMPS BRIEFINGS BECAUSE OF ALL HIS MISINFORMATION. *:whoo:


----------



## Wulfin

A friend shared this with me a few hours ago and I was laughing SO SO SO hard LOL.


----------



## Melissa Woods

We’ve been social distancing for two weeks— I go to Boise State and classes went fully online at that point. Kids are out of school. Oliver has actually really enjoyed everyone being home, and we’ve been practicing more training/ tricks etc. governor here FINALLY put stay at home order in the other day. This is very serious. Do your part with social distancing. Stay at home unless your work is essential or your outing is!


----------



## mabel

The ironic thing is that the owner of Alibaba a rich Chinese man has pledged to ship masks etc to the USA from China . How embarrassing. As a registered nurse of 30+ years I am still at work as this profession seems to be recession proof. So BE A NURSE!!!!


----------



## 31818

Believe it or not, we live in a city of around 40K residents. Our city police sent out the following email to the entire residency this afternoon:

*We would like to send a friendly reminder to our citizens about the proper use of 911.

911 is ONLY for emergencies, such as a crime in progress, fire, medical emergency, etc.

Calling 911 to find out where to buy toilet paper, get directions or find out if businesses are open would not be considered an emergency. While it seems like common sense, these are real 911 calls we receive everyday.*

(shaking my head) :doh:

Ricky's Popi


----------



## krandall

Unbelieveable!!!


----------



## Melissa Woods

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Believe it or not, we live in a city of around 40K residents. Our city police sent out the following email to the entire residency this afternoon:
> 
> *We would like to send a friendly reminder to our citizens about the proper use of 911.
> 
> 911 is ONLY for emergencies, such as a crime in progress, fire, medical emergency, etc.
> 
> Calling 911 to find out where to buy toilet paper, get directions or find out if businesses are open would not be considered an emergency. While it seems like common sense, these are real 911 calls we receive everyday.*
> 
> (shaking my head) :doh:
> 
> Ricky's Popi


OMG. geeeez. why is toilet paper the important thing to hoard in this situation anyway?

so another anecdote. we are on zoom for a class of mine. HALF THE STUDENTS WERE LEANING ON THEIR PALMS. Ahhh do you not know what keep your hands off your face means? even for a short while?


----------



## mudpuppymama

Melissa Woods said:


> OMG. geeeez. why is toilet paper the important thing to hoard in this situation anyway?
> 
> so another anecdote. we are on zoom for a class of mine. HALF THE STUDENTS WERE LEANING ON THEIR PALMS. Ahhh do you not know what keep your hands off your face means? even for a short while?


IMO the obsession with toilet paper is the scariest thing about this whole situation. I think lots of people (myself included) have never even gone one day without food...


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Melissa Woods said:


> OMG. geeeez. why is toilet paper the important thing to hoard in this situation anyway?
> 
> so another anecdote. we are on zoom for a class of mine. HALF THE STUDENTS WERE LEANING ON THEIR PALMS. Ahhh do you not know what keep your hands off your face means? even for a short while?


My eyes and face really started itching from allergies around the time this started. I ran out of allergy medicine right about then, too, and it was a week or two before I got more. I don't know what I was thinking. I have a weird germ phobia about resting my face in my hands and touching my face from as far back as middle school, yet in the middle of a pandemic I can't stop rubbing my eyes and touching my cheeks.

It did rain and then snow out of nowhere here so I'm hoping that will help!


----------



## krandall

Melissa Woods said:


> OMG. geeeez. why is toilet paper the important thing to hoard in this situation anyway?
> 
> so another anecdote. we are on zoom for a class of mine. HALF THE STUDENTS WERE LEANING ON THEIR PALMS. Ahhh do you not know what keep your hands off your face means? even for a short while?


It's amazing how hard it is for most people to keep their hands away from their faces. OTOH, if you are in your own home, and otherwise following best practices, I'm not sure it's a big problem. I don't worry about it at home, quite honestly.


----------



## krandall

Melissa Woods said:


> OMG. geeeez. why is toilet paper the important thing to hoard in this situation anyway?


And the problem is, it means that those who don't WANT to hoard are put in a position where they sort of have no choice. My son was telling me that he and his roommate were running out, so he went to 3 or 4 stores without finding ANY. FINALLY, he found ONE store with ONE package... of THIRTY rolls. For two guys sharing an apartment. That's got to be close to a year's supply. He didn't WANT that many, but that was his only option. I told him to drop half of it by our house! LOL!


----------



## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Believe it or not, we live in a city of around 40K residents. Our city police sent out the following email to the entire residency this afternoon:
> 
> *We would like to send a friendly reminder to our citizens about the proper use of 911.
> 
> 911 is ONLY for emergencies, such as a crime in progress, fire, medical emergency, etc.
> 
> Calling 911 to find out where to buy toilet paper, get directions or find out if businesses are open would not be considered an emergency. While it seems like common sense, these are real 911 calls we receive everyday.*
> 
> (shaking my head) :doh:
> 
> Ricky's Popi





Melissa Woods said:


> OMG. geeeez. why is toilet paper the important thing to hoard in this situation anyway?
> 
> so another anecdote. we are on zoom for a class of mine. HALF THE STUDENTS WERE LEANING ON THEIR PALMS. Ahhh do you not know what keep your hands off your face means? even for a short while?


Bill Gates was interviewed on CNN last night. He gave a Ted Talk in 2015 about a future Pandemic that the United States and the World needed to prepare for.

In that talk, he mentioned there would be a *Run on Toilet Paper*. :surprise:


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Yet the president got a test, the veep got one, and members of Congress (e.g. Romney) get them with ease and all were negative.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


In my state it is now pretty simple to get a test if someone meets the criteria. I think the hardest hit areas of the U.S. are completely different, so who knows how long that will last.

The part that I find really confusing is the emphasis on widespread testing, but my understanding is that only works to mitigate spread in the very early stages, which is what they did in South Korea. I read they aren't testing for exposure in areas with lots of cases, only people who are symptomatic, because they are trying to preserve supplies such as masks and gowns. In areas with minimal cases, widespread testing could still help, but it's most likely to help if people aren't moving.

To me that is the real tragedy. If widespread testing had been prepared in February, would we still need to acquire hospital beds, ventilators, and emergency shelters to the same degree?


----------



## Mikki

EvaE1izabeth said:


> To me that is the real tragedy. If widespread testing had been prepared in February, would we still need to acquire hospital beds, ventilators, and emergency shelters to the same degree?


You're right *THAT IS THE REAL TRAGEDY*. South Korean and a few other countries set the example. They began aggressive testing in February, tracked down persons who associated with people who tested positive and basically stopped CoViD-19. Because of their aggressive and continual aggressive efforts they have not needed a Lock Down or Shelter In Place, which helped protect their economy

The WHO, (World Health Organization) provided CoViD-19 testing kits to any country that wanted them. South Korea and a couple of other countries used those kits smartly and effective and have contained the virus. They continue to test and isolate individuals who test positive.

Unlike the MAGA group, they first denied there was a CoVid-19 problem and they refused the WHO testing kits and decided America is such as great country it would go it alone and make their own kits.

Those testing kits just became available a few days ago. That's why America doesn't know how many cases they have or where they are. Utah and all the other "Black Hole" (small) states have a lot more CoVid-19 cases than they know.

Gunnison County where Crested Butte, CO is located currently is ranked 3rd in the nation for the highest numbest of CoVid-19 cases and three people have died. CB population is around 2,000. Eagle County, home Vail Colorado is ranked 7th. The ski resorts have been hit hard because... IMO...they have people from all the world visit. Vail Ski resorts suddenly closed as Spring Break was beginning.

This is a recent screen shot taken a few ours ago, from John Hopkins Website who updates CoVid-19 cases around the world throughout the day and night.

If interested ... This is the John Hopkins Link ... https://www.domo.com/coronavirus-tracking


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Mikki said:


> m Utah and all the other "Black Hole" (small) states have a lot more CoVid-19 cases than they know.


Oh I absolutely think this is true, most definitely. I think we have been lucky because we don't have the population density and they started shutting things down and social distancing early. It's why there was controversy about it locally. People didn't see a problem and they didn't understand that if you wait until you see a problem, it's guaranteed to spin out of control. Even though tests are available here, it's not an accurate reflection of the infection rate. They have been telling people from the beginning, if you are sick, just stay home and isolate yourself, act like you have it, and I do think a lot of people have complied. But there have also been a few incidents of potential spread in workplaces and gatherings that we won't see the consequences of for another week or so.


----------



## 31818

*Videos for dog lovers*

Attached are two videos by two bored, virus quarantined British sportscasters. These guys are very clever and creative. I'm sure that any of the Havadoggies on this forum would be competitive in either competitions! Ricky "the Rocket" Ricardo throws down the challenge :grin2:

Click and enjoy.

Ricky's Popi

 Labrador Eat Off

 RLH competition


----------



## ShamaMama

Funny! I really liked the second one. You should be posting your funny videos in the Time for a break thread.

Speaking of other threads, please visit the following thread if you might be interested in joining TONIGHT'S virtual play date. All discussion of that event should take place in that thread. Hope to meet you all TONIGHT!

https://www.havaneseforum.com/6-gen...m-internet-virtual-play-date.html#post1445442


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA

I heard about this website today. It calculates how much TP you need to last however many days of quarantine you are in. It's kind of fun and makes you realize how much you actually need. I also heard on the broadcast that it was fairly accurate. https://howmuchtoiletpaper.com/


----------



## ShamaMama

Last reminder that in 19 minutes, Shama's virtual play date will begin, and we will be able to stop thinking about the coronavirus for an hour! See the link below for details about joining us!

https://www.havaneseforum.com/6-gen...anese-forum-internet-virtual-play-date-2.html


----------



## Molly120213

ShamaMama said:


> Last reminder that in 19 minutes, Shama's virtual play date will begin, and we will be able to stop thinking about the coronavirus for an hour! See the link below for details about joining us!
> 
> https://www.havaneseforum.com/6-gen...anese-forum-internet-virtual-play-date-2.html


Just messaged you!


----------



## hbmama

Taylor is a funny little joy! Can't wait until she has her final parvo shots next month and hopefully by then, our beautiful beaches will reopen. In the meantime, we are staying close to home. She provides all the entertainment we need for now, and we have lots of time for training, which she loves!


----------



## Tom King

We visited my Mother at her Assisted Living place today. Her 104th Birthday will be on April 18th. She was 2 when she lost some family members to the 1918 Flu Pandemic. She's still completely clear headed, and said that we just have to do what we need to.


----------



## mudpuppymama

Tom King said:


> We visited my Mother at her Assisted Living place today. Her 104th Birthday will be on April 18th. She was 2 when she lost some family members to the 1918 Flu Pandemic. She's still completely clear headed, and said that we just have to do what we need to.


Awesome that your mom is in such great shape at that age. My mom was born in Saint Louis during the 1918 flu epidemic. I heard that Saint Louis was not hit as hard as other cities because they pretty much shut down compared to some other cities like Pittsburgh.
So I guess all this social distancing pays off.


----------



## krandall

Tom King said:


> We visited my Mother at her Assisted Living place today. Her 104th Birthday will be on April 18th. She was 2 when she lost some family members to the 1918 Flu Pandemic. She's still completely clear headed, and said that we just have to do what we need to.


This is SUCH a hard time... for all of us. But I think particularly for our oldest family members. We know we have to keep them safe, but that isn't easy!


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## Tom King

She's seen so much, over her lifetime, that she's taking it all just fine. But she's always been like that about everything.

She was the youngest, by a lot, of 9 children, so she's seen them all leave, one by one.


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## krandall

Tom King said:


> She's seen so much, over her lifetime, that she's taking it all just fine. But she's always been like that about everything.
> 
> She was the youngest, by a lot, of 9 children, so she's seen them all leave, one by one.


Is that you with your mom as a little boy? Great photo?


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## Tom King

Yes. 1955. I was 5 years old.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

104 years old. Wow, the things she has witnessed.


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## Tom King

12 O'Clock news just said that there are 24 cases in an Assisted Living place in our county. I'm not sure which one that is, but it may be the one we moved her out of this Fall. She's in one in an adjoining county, in Virginia.

I knew it would get close. Pam, and I have been self-isolating for 3 weeks now. The lake is swarming with people, as if they are on vacation because they're off work. People don't seem to believe that it is transmitted by others who show no symptoms.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

Yes, some people are acting really stupid. I've also been self-isolating although I did make one trip to the local grocery store 10 days ago. I have 4 more days to go before I feel secure that I'm free of Covid 19. It's horrible to feel that I may have been exposed and still could show signs of symptoms. So, I'm just counting down the days. I plan on not going anywhere for the next month or two. It's scary to think that some are not taking this seriously.


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## krandall

Tom King said:


> 12 O'Clock news just said that there are 24 cases in an Assisted Living place in our county. I'm not sure which one that is, but it may be the one we moved her out of this Fall. She's in one in an adjoining county, in Virginia.
> 
> I knew it would get close. Pam, and I have been self-isolating for 3 weeks now. The lake is swarming with people, as if they are on vacation because they're off work. People don't seem to believe that it is transmitted by others who show no symptoms.


Same thing is happening here. I have to go to the hospital for my monthly infusion on Thursday. I can't skip it, and I'm not looking forward to it. It is in a separate building from where "sick" people go, and since MOST people there have compromised immune systems, they TRY to keep sick people out. But just GOING into the city, and going into a major hospital is scary.


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## EvaE1izabeth

Here they have tried not to shut down outdoor spaces, but I don’t know how much longer that will last. It feels to me like the local government are the parents and the people are oblivious teenagers: they’re trying to give freedom but asking them to listen and they just don’t think it applies. People are asked to only visit state parks and outdoor recreation areas in their own counties, not to congregate at trailheads, maintain social distance between families, and not use playground equipment. I mean, that seems pretty reasonable, if people followed that I think it would make a huge difference in helping families with young children in particular manage right now. But just last night, there were 3 groups of people in the park in front of my house, one of them a group of teenagers that didn’t appear to be siblings. I try not to judge, because once early on I looked outside and was annoyed, and then realized the group of kids outside were clearly a large family, but my patience is growing thin, and I’m finding myself short tempered. I’m starting to feel a little crazy and this hasn’t even been going on here as long as it has in other places, and the restrictions aren’t as tight so I have been able to make weekly runs for entertainment and other supplies. I really feel for everyone who has been doing this since February! But, I keep reminding myself, this is not forever. Plus, I’ve finished a lot of stuff around the house because every time my family starts to get on my nerves I walk away and find something to do!


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## 31818

The rumor mill has reported that there are two cases (with at least one in ICU) in our 3000 person, 55+ community. HOA management said that the law prevents then from either confirming or denying the rumor. Residents here are scared and freaking out. It seems to me that if the rumor is false, management would just simply deny it since that would not compromise anyone's privacy. Their approach only adds to the tension. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I'm going to presume the rumor is true and continue my social distancing and stay at home indefinitely (other than walking Ricky). Although medical experts can't say for sure since this is new territory, some have said that the stay at home order could, may, perhaps last 2 or 3 months more!

The so-called president just said that if the Government can keep the death toll under 100,000 in the US, "they did a good job."??????????????? Tell that to the 100,000 who died.

This is getting more serious by the day. Please stay healthy and stay at home. HF needs weekly ZOOM meetups!

Ricky's Popi


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## EvaE1izabeth

Ricky Ricardo said:


> HF needs weekly ZOOM meetups!
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Yes! Sweet Havanese are the best distraction!


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## Heather's

The SF Bay Area closed down all county parks this weekend. Everyone is suppose to stay in their own neighborhood. I'm just watching the news and it is now recommended to wear a mask when in contact with others. When this began I thought it wasn't a good idea to say masks were not recommended for the general public. It just didn't make sense since it only takes a sneeze or cough to transmit the virus to another person. I've been to the grocery store a few times without a mask due the recommendation. All grocery staff at our local store on Saturday were wearing masks and gloves. I felt irresponsible for not wearing one. They come in contact with so many people and we need to make them feel safer doing their job. My thoughts are with my old coworkers working without having enough proper PPE available and knowing how scared they must feel. Everyone is being careful with social distancing around here, but it still only takes one sneeze or cough so I'll be wearing a mask. This weekend I went to four stores to do some grocery shopping. Hoped to pick-up up some TP and Kleenex. All the shelves were empty again. One store allowed me to take one roll of paper towels. Another store allowed one box of Kleenex and a roll of TP. Still no alcohol and hand sanitizer available. Finally got the last packet of Tylenol! Looks like I'm going to be making a very early morning visit standing in line at COSTCO in the near future.


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## 31818

Heather's said:


> it still only takes one sneeze or cough so I'll be wearing a mask.


Heather where can I get N95 masks? Those cheapy paper masks you can buy at the paint store do not offer any protection. AND, I don't feel comfortable buying N95 masks (if I could find them) when medical personnel need the limited supply much more than I do.

This is ridiculous when the most prosperous, most technically advanced, with the largest manufacturing capability nation cannot provide sufficient PPE, ventilators, virus screening tests for its citizens. South Korea is doing better than we are. On top of that, we are now plagued with the Orange Julius Caesar.

Our society is way out of wack.

On another note, we had scheduled our tax meeting with our CPA this Wednesday, April 1 (ironic huh?). I don't feel comfortable going to his office where he has clients in and out all day long. It is necessary for us to meet with him face to face due to a complicated tax structure. I called today and re-scheduled for mid-May. I'm not even sure that will be far enough out to avoid contamination.

Ricky's Popi


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## Heather's

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Heather where can I get N95 masks? Those cheapy paper masks you can buy at the paint store do not offer any protection. AND, I don't feel comfortable buying N95 masks (if I could find them) when medical personnel need the limited supply much more than I do.
> 
> I purchased five N95 (Amazon Prime) for my husband when it was really smoky in the Bay Area due to The Camp Fire. I'm so grateful that he still has a few because there are none available now. He has a lung problem so I'm extremely concerned about this COVID-19. I was hoping to get disposable masks on Amazon, but they are no longer available or back ordered for a few months. I also don't feel comfortable wearing a N95 knowing the hospitals have limited inventory. I need to protect DH from the possibly of contracting this virus so I'll use his. It needs to be the correct size to be effective. His is too large, but that's all we have. I was just discussing masks with a friend and she mentioned even with a mask there is the possibility of ocular transmission. Pretty much everyone at the grocery store this weekend was wearing an N95, paper mask or scarf. We need to try our best to keep everyone safe.


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## 31818

Heather's said:


> He has a lung problem so I'm extremely concerned about this COVID-19.


SUERTE, Amigos y perritos :grouphug:

Ricky Ricardo and Popi


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## EvaE1izabeth

I have one single N95 disposable mask that I have been using for over a month while I’ve been building bookcases and a closet organizer. I don’t use them often but the closet material has lots of particulates and it can be caustic to breath, and since February I haven’t been able to find one, and I haven’t really searched because I know my use isn’t a high priority. It’s basically covered in dust on the inside and outside. I assumed healthcare workers aren’t using the big woodworking masks, so I tried to buy a new, nicer face mask with filters or a paint type respirator. All of those are sold out, too. I saw a couple of funny memes about people wearing huge face masks but I didn’t know they were real! 

I have read that masks are required in a few countries to leave the house, but it’s controversial because of the supply shortage and because surgical masks don’t protect against covid anyway. There are issues with contamination when removing the mask that medical people are trained to be cautious of. 

Even if it’s recommended, I think we are a way off from anyone telling us that here because production is too low. I’m almost out of rubbing alcohol and wipes, which I need for medical equipment. I read it takes about a month or so for increased production to catch up, so I hope the insanity with TP and tissue will subside soon, but I’m starting to get concerned about how long it will take for disinfectants to become available. I refused to hoard them, I just checked to make sure none of the bottles were running low, and I had about a month’s supply. It’s a good thing they didn’t start telling people on the news to actually get a 3 month supply instead of 2 weeks!


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## krandall

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Here they have tried not to shut down outdoor spaces, but I don't know how much longer that will last. It feels to me like the local government are the parents and the people are oblivious teenagers: they're trying to give freedom but asking them to listen and they just don't think it applies. People are asked to only visit state parks and outdoor recreation areas in their own counties, not to congregate at trailheads, maintain social distance between families, and not use playground equipment. I mean, that seems pretty reasonable, if people followed that I think it would make a huge difference in helping families with young children in particular manage right now. But just last night, there were 3 groups of people in the park in front of my house, one of them a group of teenagers that didn't appear to be siblings. I try not to judge, because once early on I looked outside and was annoyed, and then realized the group of kids outside were clearly a large family, but my patience is growing thin, and I'm finding myself short-tempered. I'm starting to feel a little crazy and this hasn't even been going on here as long as it has in other places, and the restrictions aren't as tight so I have been able to make weekly runs for entertainment and other supplies. I really feel for everyone who has been doing this since February! But, I keep reminding myself, this is not forever. Plus, I've finished a lot of stuff around the house because every time my family starts to get on my nerves I walk away and find something to do!


I understand how you feel. I am lucky because I can't even SEE the street from my house, so I don't even KNOW what's going on "out there" unless I leave home. But I had to pick up groceries the other day. They were supposed to be brought to my car, but when I got to the store, I got a text saying they had no one to bring them out and I should come in and get them. I wasn't thrilled, but donned my mask and went in to find that people were not even CLOSE to keeping 6' distances, ESPECIALLY coming and going through the single set of doors they were letting people use, so passing face-to-face. I did my best to avoid people, got my groceries and skedaddled. I really was surprised to see how many cars were on the road, and how FULL parking lots were, considering that people are supposed to be staying home as much as possible.


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## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Heather where can I get N95 masks? Those cheapy paper masks you can buy at the paint store do not offer any protection. AND, I don't feel comfortable buying N95 masks (if I could find them) when medical personnel need the limited supply much more than I do.
> 
> This is ridiculous when the most prosperous, most technically advanced, with the largest manufacturing capability nation cannot provide sufficient PPE, ventilators, virus screening tests for its citizens. South Korea is doing better than we are. On top of that, we are now plagued with the Orange Julius Caesar.
> 
> Our society is way out of wack.
> 
> On another note, we had scheduled our tax meeting with our CPA this Wednesday, April 1 (ironic huh?). I don't feel comfortable going to his office where he has clients in and out all day long. It is necessary for us to meet with him face to face due to a complicated tax structure. I called today and re-scheduled for mid-May. I'm not even sure that will be far enough out to avoid contamination.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


My understanding is that, even in hospitals, only those actually working with the sick are using the N95 masks. They are just too hard to come by. While they are the "gold standard", ANYTHING that covers your nose and mouth will help. If you know someone who can sew, there are a number of patterns going around on the internet for face masks that can be washed and reused that ARE being used in hospitals by workers other than those on the front lines, to save the N95 masks for those who need them most. So THAT kind of mask can be perfect for us civilians. A relative is making each of us in our family, even the baby, one of those. (She is also making HUNDREDS for a local hospital!!!) The ones she is making have a place of a filter to be inserted. These filters are used by manicurists. (My DIL is one) I don't KNOW that this will help a lot, but the filter on the micron level, so they can't hurt!

Until those cloth masks arrive, (they are coming from another state) I'm not going into any public place without at least a scarf over a utility dust mask (we found enough for one apiece for our family still in the garage) covering my face.

In case they are useful to anyone else, these are cheap and were recommended to me by someone else. I ordered them (because they are still readily available!!!) to have something around for our family to use until the masks arrive. Again, like everyone else, I think we are in this for the long haul.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FFGLNCR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## krandall

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I have one single N95 disposable mask that I have been using for over a month while I've been building bookcases and a closet organizer. I don't use them often but the closet material has lots of particulates and it can be caustic to breath, and since February I haven't been able to find one, and I haven't really searched because I know my use isn't a high priority. It's basically covered in dust on the inside and outside. I assumed healthcare workers aren't using the big woodworking masks, so I tried to buy a new, nicer face mask with filters or a paint type respirator. All of those are sold out, too. I saw a couple of funny memes about people wearing huge face masks but I didn't know they were real!
> 
> I have read that masks are required in a few countries to leave the house, but it's controversial because of the supply shortage and because surgical masks don't protect against covid anyway. There are issues with contamination when removing the mask that medical people are trained to be cautious of.
> 
> Even if it's recommended, I think we are a way off from anyone telling us that here because production is too low. I'm almost out of rubbing alcohol and wipes, which I need for medical equipment. I read it takes about a month or so for increased production to catch up, so I hope the insanity with TP and tissue will subside soon, but I'm starting to get concerned about how long it will take for disinfectants to become available. I refused to hoard them, I just checked to make sure none of the bottles were running low, and I had about a month's supply. It's a good thing they didn't start telling people on the news to actually get a 3 month supply instead of 2 weeks!


I didn't hoard either, and now I'm getting worried!

I also saw last night on the news that those with asthma are now having trouble getting their albuterol inhalers filled because they are using so many in hospitals for those with Covid. ...At the same time they are telling everyone with asthma that it is IMPERATIVE that they follow their daily asthma action plan to the letter so their lungs are in as good shape as possible IN CASE they get Covid. Right.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

Heather's said:


> Ricky Ricardo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heather where can I get N95 masks? Those cheapy paper masks you can buy at the paint store do not offer any protection. AND, I don't feel comfortable buying N95 masks (if I could find them) when medical personnel need the limited supply much more than I do.
> 
> I purchased five N95 (Amazon Prime) for my husband when it was really smoky in the Bay Area due to The Camp Fire.
> 
> 
> 
> I bought some too from Amazon when we were suffering from smoke in our area due to fires in the eastern part of our state a few years ago. I feel almost guilty for having a few but I think I'll hang on to them.
Click to expand...


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## mabel

How informative. Interesting that China is still butchering animals again as before and will not stop- needs an FDA intervention- not sure why WHO has not intervened here. Don't think they have any clout to pierce a void between China's ears on this issue. Also how embarrassing that Alibaba has sent over supplies to us by their multi-millionaire owner from China. We are indentured servants to China in many more ways than one. The world is a very small place right now!


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## 31818

krandall said:


> Until those cloth masks arrive, (they are coming from another state) I'm not going into any public place without at least a scarf over a utility dust mask (we found enough for one apiece for our family still in the garage) covering my face.


Last night on television, a Critical Care Doctor from Boston's Brigham and Women's Hospital was interviewed. She was asked specifically about the efficacy of over the counter and home made face masks. She said they provide little to no protection against the virus, BUT she said they do provide a reminder to keep your hands away from mouth, nose, and eyes. She said by all means wear one if it gives you comfort. She said that current research indicates that the virus is more contagious through social contact (like touching a contaminated article or person) than it is through airborne transmission. She urged that keeping your hands clean and away from your face is more important than the mask itself. An effective mask needs to fit tightly, be made of proper medical grade materials, and should not be reused (because they could be contaminated).

I don't know, I presume the doctor knows more than I do, but for the time being I'm not wearing a mask and when I leave the house, if I need to touch something, I put a poop bag on my hand and then dispose of it when done.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818

mabel said:


> Interesting that China is still butchering animals again as before and will not stop- needs an FDA intervention- not sure why WHO has not intervened here. Don't think they have any clout to pierce a void between China's ears on this issue.


I don't know, we're still butchering animals here and WHO hasn't intervened here and many places in the US don't require social distancing or 'stay at home' mandates. Where is WHO when we need them like a month ago?


> The world is a very small place right now!


Agree, and for mutual survival we need mutual cooperation rather than rhetoric and threats (from both sides).

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I don't know, we're still butchering animals here and WHO hasn't intervened here and many places in the US don't require social distancing or 'stay at home' mandates. Where is WHO when we need them like a month ago?


I saw a WHO representative asked this question and was very surprised. He aid, "We would have if we had been asked! But we mostly provide aid to under-developed countries, Without the US specifically ASKING for help, we had no way of knowing there was a problem."



Ricky Ricardo said:


> Agree, and for mutual survival we need mutual cooperation rather than rhetoric and threats (from both sides).
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I agree with THAT completely.


----------



## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Last night on television, a Critical Care Doctor from Boston's Brigham and Women's Hospital was interviewed. She was asked specifically about the efficacy of over the counter and home made face masks. She said they provide little to no protection against the virus, BUT she said they do provide a reminder to keep your hands away from mouth, nose, and eyes. She said by all means wear one if it gives you comfort. She said that current research indicates that the virus is more contagious through social contact (like touching a contaminated article or person) than it is through airborne transmission. She urged that keeping your hands clean and away from your face is more important than the mask itself. An effective mask needs to fit tightly, be made of proper medical grade materials, and should not be reused (because they could be contaminated).
> 
> I don't know, I presume the doctor knows more than I do, but for the time being I'm not wearing a mask and when I leave the house, if I need to touch something, I put a poop bag on my hand and then dispose of it when done.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I've heard that, and I've heard other doctors back-pedaling on that advice. It can't hurt, and maybe it helps. Since I am particularly at risk, if I HAVE to be near people outside immediate family, I am doing it. And of course, using a clean one.

There is another side to this, however. I read one article that said, because we KNOW people are shedding virus long before showing symptoms, if we could get EVERYONE to cover their mouths and noses in public the way Asians so often do out of POLITENESS, we would be protecting others from OUR germs. That, masks, even just cloth ones, would CERTAINLY do. So I will continue to protect others from ME. and hope it will catch on and they will protect me from THEM!


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## Heather's

I agree with you Karen. It was just mentioned on the news the wearing of masks by the public will be revisited and that it might be helpful... I think the problem is the lack of PPE for even the frontline healthcare workers being available now. If we don't do everything possible to help prevent transmission now our hospitals will soon become overburdened. The "shelter in place" order has been extended to May 3rd. It is now recommended to limit visits to the grocery store. We need to do our best to protect each other now.


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## krandall

Heather's said:


> I agree with you Karen. It was just mentioned on the news the wearing of masks by the public will be revisited and that it might be helpful... I think the problem is the lack of PPE for even the frontline healthcare workers being available now. If we don't do everything possible to help prevent transmission now our hospitals will soon become overburdened. The "shelter in place" order has been extended to May 3rd. It is now recommended to limit visits to the grocery store. We need to do our best to protect each other now.


Ues, Dr. Faici just said that the recommendation was being strongly considered at this point. But they wanted to make sure that they did it in such a way that it did not impact on the the already stretched to thin supplies for medical workers. But he admitted that since we now know that people are sedding virus long before they know they are sick, having people wear "some sort of face covering" in public may be another step that may be necessary to reduce the spread of the virus.


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## 31818

krandall said:


> But he admitted that since we now know that people are sedding virus long before they know they are sick, having people wear "some sort of face covering" in public may be another step that may be necessary to reduce the spread of the virus.


Yes, people who already have the virus should wear a mask. The problem is people often don't know they have the virus (until symptoms appear) for 14 days after transmission. That is why testing is so important and we currently don't have enough testing equipment and available medical personnel to administer the test. This has now gotten way out of control by a president who didn't take the necessary mandates and decisive actions a month ago. His incompetence is overwhelming and deadly.

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Yes, people who already have the virus should wear a mask. The problem is people often don't know they have the virus (until symptoms appear) for 14 days after transmission. That is why testing is so important and we currently don't have enough testing equipment and available medical personnel to administer the test. This has now gotten way out of control by a president who didn't take the necessary mandates and decisive actions a month ago. His incompetence is overwhelming and deadly.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


All true. Which is why it makes sense for everyone to cover their faces when they are out and about, to keep from possibly passing their (unknown, through no fault of their own) germs to others.


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## EvaE1izabeth

I think the right kind of masks can protect people, although they may also give a false sense of security. A big part of that is the mask is a sort of social cue and personal reminder. I think the social distancing mandate is specifically because there is just no way to produce the number of masks we would need in order for everyone to have one, and to have one each time they leave the house, and not reuse them. I’m pretty sure what people are wearing in most parts of the world where masks are common are surgical masks, and social distancing protects people more than a surgical mask alone. 

My concern is that there is very little protection in close quarters, and I’m not really sure there is much that can protect people then. It’s when people are in theaters, workplaces, at events, public transportation, etc. that they are at the most risk, and mask or not, in those conditions, people have likely contaminated their jackets, handbags, keys, and other items that brush up against people or they set down on counters or other surfaces. I don’t mean to sound hopeless, but now that the small window to test like crazy and trace contacts has passed, it will take a clear and organized plan to manage this, and that is the opposite of what we have. Otherwise we are at risk of being on lockdown indefinitely. Masks may protect individuals, but it is still a small piece of the big picture. 

Considering how many times a day healthcare workers have to change these masks, meeting that demand alone is proving to be an enormous challenge. I can’t even imagine how long it would take to meet the demand of every American as well. Although, building manufacturing plants and manufacturing masks at that level would probably provide a lot of jobs.


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## 31818

krandall said:


> All true. Which is why it makes sense for everyone to cover their faces when they are out and about, to keep from possibly passing their (unknown, through no fault of their own) germs to others.


Karen, I know you and I are in agreement on this subject. My concern is that some on this forum might misunderstand or misconstrue the subtle nuances of our discussion.

I think we agree that over-the-counter paint store or home made masks do not prevent or provide immunity to the virus. The only mask that can probably do that is the medical grade N-95 mask which are not available at this time. Only professional health care providers, who are exposed to the virus on a daily basis while at work, should have access to the N-95 mask.

However, over-the-counter paint store or home made masks can prevent the spread of the virus if you have it, often unknowingly. But everyone should realize that even if you do wear a mask to prevent spread, you can also spread the virus by pushing the grocery cart with your bare hands and then examine several cans of soup to pick the right one (for example). Then you get in the car and grab the steering wheel and now your steering wheel is contaminated. You reach up to take off your mask and absentmindedly rub your nose. Now you have contaminated yourself.

Yes, wear a mask to prevent the spread to others, but also wear hand protection when you go out, wash your hands frequently, practice social distancing, and stay at home except for the most essential items - to protect yourself. A mask wont do that.

I just got word an hour ago that my nephew (who is an essential employee at a community college) has just come down with the symptoms. He is in his 50's. He does live several hundred miles from me and I haven't seen him in a year so there is no threat to me personally. But he is married and has two children and they are now at risk. Yes, his three family members should now be wearing masks to prevent spread to others because they are known carriers of the virus.

Ricky's Popi


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## Heather's

I feel better when someone has a mask on and I want to be respectful of others. If someone sneezes or coughs a mask is helpful. No mask protects 100%. In the hospital we had to be fitted yearly with the N-95 for a proper fit. Some thoughtful people on Next-door have been making masks for local hospitals and healthcare workers. I just noticed the hospital where I worked at will not be using them.


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## Melissa Brill

Hi everyone 

I've been radio-silent for weeks - it's been a complicated time. My Mom passed away a little over a month ago (not COVID related) so I was in the US for 3 weeks, only to return to Kampala and spend the next two weeks in self-quarantine (at home) - luckily I arrived right before it became mandatory quarantine at a hotel of the government's choice (I came back Sunday, that happened on a Tuesday). 

During the quarantine the Danish Embassy (my employers) decided to reduce expatriate staff and gave us the option to head back to the US even though I am considered essential staff - but Dawit and I discussed it and decided that the danger of being stuck in airports/ long lines for health checks/ etc was higher than staying here (plus there likely would have been some issue with us traveling during our quarantine period). So we stayed here in Kampala. Also during that time many of the airlines stopped taking animals on flights - so a lot of people who were forced by their employers to leave had to leave their pets behind (a local company has been working with the airlines to get them shipped). So I was working at home during the 2 weeks self-quarantine.

Happy to report that we both emerged from self-quarantine on Sunday with no symptoms.

I had exactly 1 1/2 days of freedom - so was able to do a little outside shopping on Sunday (a few things that I couldn't find online for delivery) and went to the office on Monday. (we were on a reduced schedule - 1/2 office each day / all work at home on Friday) before the President of Uganda declared a lockdown - grocery stores and pharmacies are still open, factories and construction sites can stay open if the employers can set up a camp where the people can live for the next 2 weeks, and walking to the stores is still allowed (and cargo and delivery transport is still permitted) but private vehicles are banned from moving around, so we're back to working at home again. This is in effect for the next two weeks though I anticipate it will go longer. 

Delivery services - restaurants, grocery stores, pharmacies, party supplies (I was able to get my hubby's birthday cake delivered while we were self-quarantined) were still working and are still working during the lockdown so we're good for supplies (and I'm a bit of a pantry hoarder anyway so we were already pretty good).

Here are some pics of Perry in "work at home" mode . He usually spends the day with my husband and our housekeeper - but now he's keeping me company in my home office. Full disclosure he does spend some time during the day on my lap with his head on my laptop  (as you can see in one of the pictures)

I did NOT take pics of him standing at the French doors barking at (1)the sounds coming from the neighbor's dog (2)our guard or (3)nothing that i could see (but I'm sure he heard something) because those things usually happened while i was in the middle of a conference skype and usually involved me keeping my microphone on mute and yelling at him OR marching over to him with an angry face, and pointing back to the office


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## 31818

Thanks @Melissa Brill, interesting comparison what you are experiencing in Africa to life here in the 'most advanced' Nation in the world. Condolences about your Mom. Keep yourself, your family, and Perry safe in memory of your mother

Ricky's Popi


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## Molly120213

So sorry about your Mom, Melissa.


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## 31818

Positive news from California this morning - *WE ARE STARTING TO BEND THE CURVE!* :whoo: 
California health officials say that the rate of new cases is starting to show a slight decline in California. They say that we have sufficient PPE and ventilators for health care professionals at the current rate of infections and we may be able to begin to export surplus supplies to other States who did not plan ahead in the next week or two. They did caution that this is NOT the time to let down our guard because infection rates could increase as quickly as they decrease if we DON'T continue to social distance, wash hands and keep away from face, and stay at home. If we do this health officials say that restrictions may begin to be eased by the end of April in California. :whoo:

This is great news! If we can see a light at the end of the tunnel, I think it will encourage most people to redouble their personal efforts to work our way through it - I know I will. I am grateful to our Socialistic Progressive Governor Newsom to take this virus seriously from the beginning, take a personal leadership role, and take decisive measures to minimize the impact on California's 40 million population.

Let's encourage each other HavaOwners, we can beat this virus together. :grouphug:

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> However, over-the-counter paint store or home made masks can prevent the spread of the virus if you have it, often unknowingly. But everyone should realize that even if you do wear a mask to prevent spread, you can also spread the virus by pushing the grocery cart with your bare hands and then examine several cans of soup to pick the right one (for example). Then you get in the car and grab the steering wheel and now your steering wheel is contaminated. You reach up to take off your mask and absentmindedly rub your nose. Now you have contaminated yourself.
> 
> Yes, wear a mask to prevent the spread to others, but also wear hand protection when you go out, wash your hands frequently, practice social distancing, and stay at home except for the most essential items - to protect yourself. A mask wont do that.


Yes, FOR SURE. I wasn't in any way suggesting a lessening of any other guidelines. Only ADDING a mask ALSO. The original guideline, are, FOR SURE, the most important ones.



Ricky Ricardo said:


> I just got word an hour ago that my nephew (who is an essential employee at a community college) has just come down with the symptoms. He is in his 50's. He does live several hundred miles from me and I haven't seen him in a year so there is no threat to me personally. But he is married and has two children and they are now at risk. Yes, his three family members should now be wearing masks to prevent spread to others because they are known carriers of the virus.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I'm so sorry. And the problem is his family are NOT "known carriers". That's the problem. Until and unless they are tested (along with everyone else he has come in contact with in the last week or more) they are potential carriers. And NONE of them should risk infecting others.

I don't know if you watch CNN at all. I don't usually, but have found it a reasonably good source of information these days, when I sit down in the evening. I knew that one of their reporters, Chris Cuomo, is Governor Cuomo's (much) younger brother. Two night ago, I watched Chris interview Andrew. It started as a VERY "straight" interview, then turned into a REALLY funny "sibling needling" event. But it came out that Chris was sitting in his (nice, furnished) basement doing the show. Which Andrew brought up, and I didn't catch the implications. I know many of the news casters are working from home these days.

Well, last night, it was announced that Chris has tested positive for Covid, after calling the doctor, thinking he might have a sinus infection. Of course, he lives in the heart of NY city, so I'm sure the chances of exposure are quite high, even for those who are trying to maintain social distancing. He is going to try to keep hosting his hour-long segment, unless he gets too sick to handle it. He does look visible ill, but is doing OK. He is clearly worried about his wife and children, who are upstairs, and not allowed down, obviously. He said, a little wistfully, "Even the dogs won't come down the basement stairs!"


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## krandall

So glad to hear from you again, Melissa! Have wondered where you were! I'm so sorry to hear about your mom. I can understand your decision to hunker down there, which seems to mostly BE your home these days, especially when trying to get back to the US would have been fraught with so much danger. Keep safe, and keep us up to date.

And I certainly understand about trying to work through barking dogs (and a cute but NOISY granddaughter!!!) And ALL of them seem more keyed up than usual, probably because the adults in the household are more on-edge.


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## EvaE1izabeth

Melissa Brill said:


> I did NOT take pics of him standing at the French doors barking at (1)the sounds coming from the neighbor's dog (2)our guard or (3)nothing that i could see (but I'm sure he heard something) because those things usually happened while i was in the middle of a conference skype and usually involved me keeping my microphone on mute and yelling at him OR marching over to him with an angry face, and pointing back to the office


This sounds like me with my kids right now. Let's just say my patience is not at it's usual level.

What a difficult time to navigate a loss and have to travel between countries. I'm glad you didn't get stuck anywhere and I hope you're doing okay.


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## krandall

Thought you might appreciate this, from a veterinarian friend:

PSA from a veterinarian. "We learn about virology, epidemiology, disease outbreak response, immunology, biosecurity and aseptic techniques, and zoonotic diseases (transmitted from animals to humans). This is in our wheel house. If animal outbreaks were handled the way this has been handled, your bacon would cost $20/slice. The head of China's CDC is a veterinarian and he is stunned that we are not wearing masks in public):

1) Wear a mask if you have to be near people. The goal of a mask is 90% to protect other people from the infection that you might not even know that you have and 10% to protect yourself.

2) Do NOT spray your mask with Lysol, etc, to "re-sterilize" it. Breathing cleaning product fumes will damage your lungs and set them up for disease. Keep this in mind when you are obsessively cleaning in general - spraying and wiping absolutely everything could expose your lungs to harmful chemicals. Items that sit for a few hours will most likely have little to no live virus left (I can't guarantee this, but it is probable based on how enveloped viruses behave and what Dr. Fauci has said).

3) If you use a cloth mask, swap out and wash if it gets damp (it will). Remove elastic and HEPA insert if you have one, ideally, replace the filter once the mask is clean and dry. It might help to put a used filter out in the sun as UV kills a lot, but I can't tell you for sure that will work - last resort. You can also put extra fabric inside the mask, anything that traps droplets, but it will also make it hotter and a wet mask can wick virus from the outside to the inside and vice versa. Store in clean paper bag so that any remaining virus can dry out and die.

4) Wash hands before and after putting mask on or off and do not touch your face. Assume that the mask is contaminated if it has been worn and proceed accordingly.

5) STFH (First word: "Stay", Last word: "Home")

OK to copy and paste from an "Anonymous Veterinarian" since I don't want to be liable, these are my educated suggestions only."


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

Melissa - so sorry to hear about the loss of your mother. Glad you are staying safe and healthy. It's good to hear from you.


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## krandall

Social Distancing Tip of the Day:


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## Heather's

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your mother Melissa. Sending my deepest sympathy. 
Perry looks pretty relaxed there. I'm sure he is very happy that your working from home. Good to hear you made it through your quarantine. Stay safe. 😊


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## Cassandra

Melissa, it was good to hear from you, although I think we were all sorry to hear about the loss of your mother. So difficult any time, but these days it is particularly hard. 

As this pandemic has unfolded, I did think of both you and Ricky Ricardo’s popi being far away, and glad you are both in safe places to weather this storm.


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## Melissa Brill

Thanks everyone for the condolences - life has been crazy lately and things have moved very fast. Kampala is home and better stocked than my Mom's house in the US, so we're in a good place right now -- and easier to work in the same time zone as the office than a 7 hour time difference . 

Perry is mostly chill while I'm working - but he does seem to pick the worst times to find something to bark at .

Traveling back was a little surreal - the DC airport was a ghost town! I have never, no matter what time of day I've traveled, seen it that empty so it was weird. The Addis and Kampala airports were as busy as usual - but we weren't hit as quickly with corona in this part of the world - part may be due to really low testing, but both Uganda and Ethiopia got their first official cases only in mid-March (March 20th for Uganda). We're up to 44 cases here now. Of course, the ability to treat and respond here is also much lower than in Europe and the US, so the governments in the region have taken really drastic measures relatively quickly - mandatory quarantine for people coming from high infection rate countries started around the 10th and the airport shut down the weekend before last.

So, we're settling in for the long-haul. No idea when we'll be off of house arrest -they initially did it for 14 days, but I anticipate it will be extended. No idea when travel will be possible - and the added complication that some countries are requiring a negative corona test for you to travel to them - but you can't get corona tests without having symptoms in a lot of the world right now so that will complicate things. 

It's hard knowing that family are so far away and that we couldn't get home (to either the US or Ethiopia) if something happened. Both of my parents are gone and the rest of the US family are younger (with the exception of two uncles and an aunt who are in their 70s) - but Dawit's parents in Addis are 75+ as well as all of our extended family there who are in their 70s/ 80s. I know it is also hitting younger people and can be dangerous as well, but we can only check in on all of them from a distance/ skype/ phone/ etc. 

We're lucky that we have the resources to not worry about the situation (and can still work). We also don't have to worry about our own health as much - I work for the Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs and was informed yesterday that we're covered with medevac and, if that fails because of corona, with evacuation by the Danish air force if needed. So, we're good. But I worry about all of the people who live hand to mouth and who don't have food or shelter during this time. Here crime will definitely go up - there have been reports of break-ins where people were taking the food in the house. The police have announced a shoot first policy for burglars. Things have the potential to get really dicey really quickly. So, fingers crossed and will see how things go.


----------



## 31818

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I think the right kind of masks can protect people, although they may also give a false sense of security. A big part of that is the mask is a sort of social cue and personal reminder.


I agree Eva E. here is a succinct article about face masks that says it better than I can.

Ricky's Popi

*Are homemade face masks effective against COVID-19?
Since the beginning of the COVID-19 outbreak, public health officials have advised healthy Americans not to wear face masks. The reason: There's a shortage of masks, and they should be reserved for health care workers.

But wearing a surgical mask can prevent people from infecting others - even if they aren't showing any coronavirus symptoms. So the CDC guidance may change soon.

In the meantime, homemade masks have become so popular that online groups of avid sewers are coordinating their efforts to provide protection for health care providers.

Several readers asked PolitiFact about whether DIY masks are as effective at preventing the transmission of COVID-19.

Face masks do not block some of the very fine particles in the air that may be transmitted by coughs or sneezes. That means they're not a reliable way of preventing someone from contracting the airborne coronavirus particles and getting COVID. But masks do prevent the spread of larger respiratory droplets, so they are effective at preventing an infected person from spreading the virus.

Studies show that cloth masks aren't as good as surgical masks, but they do seem to reduce the spread of respiratory droplets.

People who have the coronavirus may not exhibit symptoms for up to 14 days after exposure, so the CDC may soon advise everyone to wear masks in public, just in case they're sick. In that case, if you're going out in public, wearing something is better than nothing.*


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## mudpuppymama

Dr. Mercola has an article on disinfecting for COV19.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/03/25/best-surface-disinfectant.aspx


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## krandall

Melissa Brill said:


> Thanks everyone for the condolences - life has been crazy lately and things have moved very fast. Kampala is home and better stocked than my Mom's house in the US, so we're in a good place right now -- and easier to work in the same time zone as the office than a 7 hour time difference .
> 
> Perry is mostly chill while I'm working - but he does seem to pick the worst times to find something to bark at .
> 
> Traveling back was a little surreal - the DC airport was a ghost town! I have never, no matter what time of day I've traveled, seen it that empty so it was weird. The Addis and Kampala airports were as busy as usual - but we weren't hit as quickly with corona in this part of the world - part may be due to really low testing, but both Uganda and Ethiopia got their first official cases only in mid-March (March 20th for Uganda). We're up to 44 cases here now. Of course, the ability to treat and respond here is also much lower than in Europe and the US, so the governments in the region have taken really drastic measures relatively quickly - mandatory quarantine for people coming from high infection rate countries started around the 10th and the airport shut down the weekend before last.
> 
> So, we're settling in for the long-haul. No idea when we'll be off of house arrest -they initially did it for 14 days, but I anticipate it will be extended. No idea when travel will be possible - and the added complication that some countries are requiring a negative corona test for you to travel to them - but you can't get corona tests without having symptoms in a lot of the world right now so that will complicate things.
> 
> It's hard knowing that family are so far away and that we couldn't get home (to either the US or Ethiopia) if something happened. Both of my parents are gone and the rest of the US family are younger (with the exception of two uncles and an aunt who are in their 70s) - but Dawit's parents in Addis are 75+ as well as all of our extended family there who are in their 70s/ 80s. I know it is also hitting younger people and can be dangerous as well, but we can only check in on all of them from a distance/ skype/ phone/ etc.
> 
> We're lucky that we have the resources to not worry about the situation (and can still work). We also don't have to worry about our own health as much - I work for the Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs and was informed yesterday that we're covered with medevac and, if that fails because of corona, with evacuation by the Danish air force if needed. So, we're good. But I worry about all of the people who live hand to mouth and who don't have food or shelter during this time. Here crime will definitely go up - there have been reports of break-ins where people were taking the food in the house. The police have announced a shoot first policy for burglars. Things have the potential to get really dicey really quickly. So, fingers crossed and will see how things go.


We will be keeping you in our thoughts and prayers!!! <3


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## jacinda

Wulfin said:


> Yes to distance learning, we are getting set up on google classroom this week, and she has a couple of apps like prodigy and squigglepark that they were using in the class that we can use at home. However, her work at home has no bearing on a final grade. She's already received that.
> 
> Puppies should have met 100 people by 12 weeks, so if you get your puppy at 10 weeks, you're already 2 weeks into a critical socialization period, so she likes to do half the work for you. Once the puppies are old enough, she basically asks for people to come visit them (the families that will be getting the puppies, friends and extended family members of those homes), vet office, etc. The numbers actually add up really fast that way. Denver as a young puppy even went into a seniors care facility at about 9 weeks old. Of course right now things like that aren't possible!
> 
> Here's Denver's most recent picture when the rascal stole my daughters PJ top yesterday ..


Nice


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## Jeanniek

I am so sorry, Melissa, for what you’ve been going through. I am glad that your situation gives you some security and pray that you and yours continue to be safe.


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## Jeanniek

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I agree Eva E. here is a succinct article about face masks that says it better than I can.
> 
> Ricky's Popi
> 
> *Are homemade face masks effective against COVID-19?
> 
> Several readers asked PolitiFact about whether DIY masks are as effective at preventing the transmission of COVID-19.
> 
> Face masks do not block some of the very fine particles in the air that may be transmitted by coughs or sneezes. That means they're not a reliable way of preventing someone from contracting the airborne coronavirus particles and getting COVID. But masks do prevent the spread of larger respiratory droplets, so they are effective at preventing an infected person from spreading the virus.
> 
> In that case, if you're going out in public, wearing something is better than nothing.*


Did want to say I found a good video for making masks from cloth hepa vacuum bags. I could not find if fiberglass is used at all on the cloth bags, and though I read that there is fiberglass in some hepa bags, they are long strands and do not affect us like fiberglass dust. Just in case, I have put coffee filters in between the hepa cloth sections. They are fast and easy to make and supposedly remove an excellent percentage of microbes since they are hepa and also that they fit the face quite well, leaving no gaps for air to get through. https://mikeshouts.com/doctor-explains-how-to-make-the-safest-face-mask/


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## Jackie from Concrete WA

Jeanniek said:


> Did want to say I found a good video for making masks from cloth hepa vacuum bags. I could not find if fiberglass is used at all on the cloth bags, and though I read that there is fiberglass in some hepa bags, they are long strands and do not affect us like fiberglass dust. Just in case, I have put coffee filters in between the hepa cloth sections. They are fast and easy to make and supposedly remove an excellent percentage of microbes since they are hepa and also that they fit the face quite well, leaving no gaps for air to get through. https://mikeshouts.com/doctor-explains-how-to-make-the-safest-face-mask/


There has been a local doctor on our news stations stressing not to use hepa bags. He says that they contain chemicals to help the bag's efficiency that can cause lung issues if inhaled.


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## 31818

Jackie from Concrete said:


> There has been a local doctor on our news stations stressing not to use hepa bags. He says that they contain chemicals to help the bag's efficiency that can cause lung issues if inhaled.


Yet I have seen videos of other doctors recommending to use HEPA bags. But he says to make sure they don't have a thin fiberglass insert - some do, some don't. That can cause lung issues and cancer.

This is all very confusing. This country just can't get anything right. The Administration at the Federal level needs to issue a nationwide lockdown (probably for only 2 or 3 weeks), and prioritize manufacture and distribution of test kits and N-95 masks (block out 95% of contagions). They aren't doing it. They say it is not their responsibility. UNBELIEVABLE!

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

I understand CoVid-19 is highly contagious and like seasonal flu it kills and is more dangerous to people of all ages who have underlying heath problems but in particular the elderly. My husband and I fall in the elderly 70+ category _(although we don't think of ourselves as elderly_). My husband has underlying health issues and we have a 14-year grandson who has seasonal asthma. We live in one of these backward Red States but live in a progressive, liberal college town community whose Mayor shuddered businesses, group meetings and ordered the community to Stay In Place several weeks ago.

While I have no doubt CoViD-19 is a pandemic and a serious disease, I think Media is a Run Away Train Wreck causing a lot more problems than the virus itself. This is excerbated by the lack of government preparedness along with a vacuum of smart and trustworthy leadership in the White House. Basically, no one knows much of anything about CoViD-19. There are more than a dozen projection models, projecting deaths rates from CoViD-19 from 64K to 2M. In today's, NYTs experts are asking where are these numbers coming from (who did them) and they want the data so it can be analyzed. The WH will not provide this information and have decided to use a model.... Just Because 100,000 sounds pretty good?????

Hospitals around the country are laying off employees because there's nothing for them to do. A Tweeter from a nurse who asked if anyone else's hospitals were empty received over 14K replies form nurses all over the U.S. I have screen shots of a few, if interested. After 30 days, our local hospital will consider laying off employees.

Our local hospital has almost every speciality and covers several rural counties. It has 3 ICU units, but expanded those to 6, all with air systems that keeps infectious diseases air inside the unit. Two weeks ago we had 3 CoViD-19 patients, who are still in the hospital. One is on a ventilator. Four new patients have been admitted and are being tested. It takes several days to get results back. The Cancer Center will be used for other CoViD-19 patients. Since around the first of March all elective surgeries were canceled and our hospital has been basically sitting idle except for the few CoViD-19 patients. It'll be interesting to see how things progress.

*Having said all this ... my point is the U.S. has had other pandemic diseases and The Government did not Shut Down the country. The disease didn't overwhelm the healthcare system. It didn't throw millions out of work. It didn't destroy the economy.

10 million are out-of-work today. It's estimated that number will increase to 45 million soon. And the government is sending people $1,200 ... when it gets around to it .... maybe in a couple of weeks. *

*Swine Flu - H1N1 - 2009*
I*n America there were: 

60.8M infections
274,304 hospitalizations
12,469 deaths

Early estimates were the fatality rates were going to be high. It turned out H1N1 was milder than feared and has become one of the seasonal flus that is included in vaccinations. *

*The CDC estimates the season flu for 2019-2020 will kill 29K to 59K Americans.
In 2017-18: 61K died from the flu. 
In 2018-19: 34K died.*

*Globally the seasonal flu kills 290K to 650K people a year.

Because testing is not done to see what type of flu kills people, it's unknown how many people die from H1N1 every year.
*
What makes me (everyone) anxious and depressed is there NO PLAN. We're given indefinite dates of how long the economy will be shut down, how long people should not leave their homes.

*I'm starting to come to the conclusion ... THE CURE IS! WORST THAN THE DISEASE.*

People in Italy are close to or are starting to riot. Hungry people are trying/stealing food from grocery stores. People in South Africa are breaking into homes for food and being shot. People in India who been thrown out of work because of it's government shut and live 10+ to one room are more worried about starving than the Coronavirus

Is the government going give people $1,200 in digital money to live on every month or every once in a while. Who can live on that amount of money? Pay their rent. Pay mortgage. Buy food.

P*eople making these decisions aren't living on $1,200. They spend that amount of money going out to dinner. They have jobs where they can work from home and still be paid. They're are NOT like Chris Cuomo who has a fancy basement where he can film his daily show and isolate himself. *

I don't see how this can continue ... and right now it seems the experts are talking about June and restarting all this again in the fall.

Even if you had savings or money in the stock market, will there be anything left. And, this isn't because businesses had made bad self-serving decisions like in 2008.. it's the government that is destroying them and people.


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## Heather's

It is now recommended in the SF Bay Area to wear masks. Unfortunately the public was told not to wear masks for about three weeks while the cases increased. 🤔


----------



## davetgabby

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104557/coronavirus-trusted-news-sources-by-us/


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## Mikki

*Interview with Dr Fauci by Chris Cuomo.*

Question: What are some of your biggest focuses now?

"I had a very interesting conversation just this morning with colleagues from literally all over the world on the weekly telephone conference call that the W.H.O. sponsors. And it was interesting to me that some of the most cogent concerns of people from different countries, I mean all over - European, African, Australian, Canadian - was that we need to make sure we keep our eye on the balance of, if you're too stringent in things like lockdowns and keeping people under wraps for a long period of time, you may have the unintended consequence of triggering, from an economic and societal standpoint, such a disruption that you get things like poverty and health issues unrelated to the coronavirus."

_And what I find Interesting (disturbing) is what Dr. Fauci thought was Interesting....

....Health issues such as Suicide from depression as well as Poverty_


----------



## 31818

Mikki said:


> I fall in the elderly 70+ category _(although we don't think of ourselves as elderly_).


Momi and I are right there with you Mikki, but "elderly" is only a state of mind. There isn't a day go by that Momi doesn't tell Popi, "Why don't you grow up!" My doctor tells me that with all the exercising I do, sensible eating, having a dog to care for, non-smoker for life, and my gene pool, I just might live well past 100. So, yeah, I don't want to grow up.



> While I have no doubt CoViD-19 is a pandemic and a serious disease, I think Media is a Run Away Train Wreck causing a lot more problems than the virus itself.


The thing is you can either turn on the media or not. I choose to follow what is being reported in the media because I think I am getting better information (though sometimes flawed) rather than the obvious outright lies and bad advice from the so-called president's office. If you find the news stressful, don't turn it on.



> In today's, NYTs experts are asking where are these numbers coming from (who did them) and they want the data so it can be analyzed. The WH will not provide this information and have decided to use a model.... Just Because 100,000 sounds pretty good?????


The reason is that this is all new territory for the US. Nobody can really say what to expect because there are so many variables - compliance with isolation, availability of supplies, uncertainty with a new virus model, etc. Forget the numbers, just know that this is bad and could become much worse if we don't follow professional medical advice!



> *Having said all this ... my point is the U.S. has had other pandemic diseases and The Government did not Shut Down the country. The disease didn't overwhelm the healthcare system. It didn't throw millions out of work. It didn't destroy the economy. *


You're missing the point that Covid-19 is not like any other pandemic disease. Even Dr. Fauci says this. I would rather have hospitals prepared and ready to go rather than sitting idle aas you have seen. You didn't say whether the hospital you were using as an example was a public hospital or a private "for profit" hospital. 'For profit" hospitals are much more likely to lay off employees and shut down if they are not profitable compared to public hospitals. I know that all the hospitals of every type in California are busy, none of them are laying off employees (in fact there is a call for retired professionals at every level to come back to work because they are short handed), and none of them are closing. I don't know what is going on in your area, but something does not add up. If any medical professional is laid off, there is a paying job waiting for them in the Socialist, Progressive, Democratic Republic of California.



> 10 million are out-of-work today. It's estimated that number will increase to 45 million soon. And the government is sending people $1,200 ... when it gets around to it .... maybe in a couple of weeks.
> 
> *Swine Flu - H1N1 - 2009*
> I*n America there were:
> 
> 60.8M infections
> 274,304 hospitalizations
> 12,469 deaths
> 
> Early estimates were the fatality rates were going to be high. It turned out H1N1 was milder than feared and has become one of the seasonal flus that is included in vaccinations. *
> 
> *The CDC estimates the season flu for 2019-2020 will kill 29K to 59K Americans.
> In 2017-18: 61K died from the flu.
> In 2018-19: 34K died.*
> 
> *Globally the seasonal flu kills 290K to 650K people a year.*


Covid-19 is not the "flu." The medical professionals tell us unanimously this is something more deadly and contagious than the "flu." There is no existing "flu" vaccine that kills this particular corona virus. It will be developed eventually, but nobody knows for sure when. In the meantime we must shut down, isolate, and hibernate to get this under control.



> *I'm starting to come to the conclusion ... THE CURE IS! WORST THAN THE DISEASE.*


I disagree. Covid-19 has the potential to kill millions in the US if we don't take these drastic measures. I like it even less than you do, but sometimes I have to down that bitter pill before I can feel better. If we lose a significant number of people, our economy might never recover. Don't fall for and repeat the so-called presidents talking point. The disease IS worse than the cure.



> People in Italy are close to or are starting to riot. Hungry people are trying/stealing food from grocery stores. People in South Africa are breaking into homes for food and being shot. People in India who been thrown out of work because of it's government shut and live 10+ to one are more worried about starving than the Coronavirus


We run the same risk and threat in the US unless the Federal Government takes a strong hand in providing guidance and leadership. If that requires calling out the National Guard and military to maintain control and order, then let's do it. That's what they're there for. What concerns me is that there were 3.7 million guns sold in the US last month. Crazy gun nuts are now weaponized and I fear that they will take the law into their own hands. The Federal Government should shut down all gun sales right now. There are more than enough guns for people to protect themselves already! We are the most individually weaponized country in the world! What are we afraid of? If someone wants to rob me, come and help yourself because I don't own any guns, however you will have to deal with one VERY ANGRY Havanese if you break in! Ricky is fearless and he WILL take a bite out of crime if provoked.



> Is the government going give people $1,200 in digital money to live on every month or every once in a while. Who can live on that amount of money? Pay their rent. Pay mortgage. Buy food.
> 
> *People making these decisions aren't living on $1,200. They spend that amount of money going out to dinner. They have jobs where they can work from home and still be paid. They're are NOT like Chris Cuomo who has a fancy basement where he can film his daily show and isolate himself. *


 @Mikki that is a cheap shot and I don't think you mean it that way. I'm sure Chris Cuomo would be happy to give up his "fancy basement" and go back to his studio office if he didn't have the virus. He didn't make that decision, his brother, the Governor did. And I see that the Governor is isolating himself too. I know I will be happy to give up my 'fancy home office' if that will immunize me from Covid-19.

In my local area, my 3000 population 55+ community, we are organizing a program to donate our government $1200 - $2400 checks to less fortunate families who need that money more than some of us do. I have witnessed some wonderful acts of generosity, kindness and love in my area from every political belief. It provides optimism, encouragement, and hope for me.



> I don't see how this can continue ... and right now it seems the experts are talking about June and restarting all this again in the fall.


You are missing the point. The medical experts are saying that if we have a National lockdown ordered by the so-called president, we can lick this thing in a couple of months. If we don't have a National lockdown, this pandemic could persist in the US until near the end of the year.



> Even if you had savings or money in the stock market, will there be anything left. And, this isn't because businesses had made bad self-serving decisions like in 2008.. it's the government that is destroying them and people.


The stock market will come back but probably with fewer poorly run businesses who made bad decisions during this time. And yes, we can blame those businesses who are making bad self-serving decisions right now!

We, the people, are the government! It says so in the Constitution. We are destroying ourselves by electing inexperienced, self-serving people to run the government. We are responsible for not following the direction of medical professionals regardless of what the incompetent politicians say, or do, or don't do. We should blame ourselves rather than the self-serving politician that runs the Government

@Mikki it's okay to be frustrated and vent. I feel your frustration and I do plenty of venting too (see above). But it is important to keep you eye on the ultimate goal, to keep all of us, here and in the world, safe and healthy. All the money in the world does no good if we don't feel healthy and secure. Believe the medical professionals rather than self-serving politicians who have ulterior motives and agendas.

We "elderly" need to stick together and support each other. I have a neighbor named Mikki. She and her husband Howard are in their 90's. They are spunky people and full of life. They exercise every day and I see them on my walkies and we chat for a bit. They have not given up and they are doing fine. They don't watch any news or so-called presidential briefings. They told me they are half blind and half deaf. They say they really don't care. They are my heroes. These are tough times for all of us but if we don't fall for the political rhetoric by those in charge, we will survive and come out stronger as a result. Yes, we are all stressed, but remember my tip for the day: *Stressed is nothing more than Desserts spelled backwards!* I think I'll have some now! :wink2: I'll diet later.

Hugs @Mikki :grouphug:

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> _And what I find Interesting (disturbing) is what Dr. Fauci thought was Interesting....
> 
> ....Health issues such as Suicide from depression as well as Poverty_


Dr, Fauci said he found it "interesting" he didn't say he agreed with it. In fact Dr. Fauci has called for a National lockdown despite the possible risks.

I have a close family member who is a Mental Health Medical professional. They are aware of this depression issue and are on top of it. Regarding poverty, that is something we, the electorate, are responsible for. I takes money to provide free education, free health, and job opportunities. Elect people who will address these issues rather than building walls.

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

@Ricky Ricardo .... While I Agree and Disagree with you, I certainly need and enjoy your enthusiasm. :hug:

Our local hospital is a well run non-profit. Until the 2020 Census is finished, at this time it's considered a rural hospital but offers most speciality services. It's small enough you don't feel like a number but large enough to take care of most medical problems. My husband is a retired orthopedic surgeon and has been a Hospital Board member for a long time. All hospitals were told to prepare and cancel all non-emergency surgical procedures. At this time, our hospital has not been Crushed or overrun with CoViD-19 patients. Two weeks ago, we have 3 confirmed CoViD-19 patients in the hospital, one is now a ventilator. Four other patients are waiting on tests to see if they have the virus.

The hospital made a decision to keep all employees on payroll, even if they had nothing to do for 30 days, then re-evaluate.

Google CoViD-19 Hospital Employee Layoffs ... and you'll come up with more stories than you'll care to read. 

Here are a few:

*Thousands of US medical workers furloughed, laid off as routine patient visits drop during coronavirus pandemic*
BY KIM NORVELL / JAYNE O'DONNELL / USA TODAY NETWORK
Published: Thu, April 2, 2020 2:30 PM

Orr joins thousands of health care workers across the nation who have been laid off, furloughed or are working reduced hours as their services are deemed nonessential and patients skip routine visits during an outbreak of COVID-19 cases, based on reporting from advocacy groups and from news stories from across the nation.

Hospitals across the country are furloughing or laying off employees who aren't involved in the fight against COVID-19. Cape Fear Valley Health in Fayetteville said last week it would furlough about 300 employees, while Southeastern Health in Lumberton said it would reduce its staff by 201.​
https://oklahoman.com/article/56592...tient-visits-drop-during-coronavirus-pandemic

*Doctors and nurses are getting hit with pay cuts, layoffs, and furloughs even as they fight the coronavirus pandemic*

https://news.yahoo.com/doctors-nurses-getting-hit-pay-132300015.html

An Emergency Department nurse who was laid off, posted on Tweeter asking if other hospital staff was being laid. She had 1,400 responses. I've posted a few of those Tweets. 

There are going to be some Hot Spots. CoVID-19 is very a contagious Flu that kills people of all ages who are frail, sick or have underlying health issues. The majority of those who fit that category are "elderly."_ I hate that term_. Not all oldies die from it. I've seen two people interviewed who are over 100 who had CoViD-19 and are doing well. One is a Vietnam Viet, I believe he is 101. A women in an assisted living home who's 104. I understand, CoViD-19 is extremely dangerous to vulnerable people in the population. Although, I'm healthy and active, I'm in that category due to my age. My husband has underlying health issues and he would not fair well if he catches CoViD-19 and neither would our 14-year old grandson who has season asthma. We are cautious and concerned.

Right now the media wants to focus on NYC because it has the most drama, death and a vocal Governor not to mention a brother who is a CNN newscaster. I'd like to see the media tour all states and show us what's going on in all metro and rural hospital areas. That would be interesting... 

That's not to say NYC doesn't have a big problem and other states will likely become hot spots. Hopefully, not on the NYC's scale or we can hope the media stops it's overzealous coverage. What I'm saying is what we are seeing on the news probably isn't representative of the true picture.

While I too listen to the news, I leave the room when the Liar in Chief comes on for his briefing or any other time he may appear on the screen. NPR has stopped carrying his briefings because he provides so much "misinformation."

I don't think this CoViD-19 is be as bad as the Media and Cuomo's projections say it going to be. My Prediction. :nerd:

I like you 90-year-old neighbor's idea... I think I'm going to stop listening to the news. There's not a **** thing I can do about any of it. :lalala: What Be Will Be .... who sang that song?? :violin:
:usa2:

Sorry ... for the Screen Shot links to the response to the ER Nurse's Tweet Question. These need to be change to JPG files. I need to take them into photo editing software and I'm out of time. Maybe later ... or maybe not :|


----------



## Tom King

Some of my Scientist friends belong to a group that was hosting a conference. They moved the date up a couple of weeks because of worries about the virus. They moved it up from the third week in January, to the first week.

We're 3-1/2 weeks into self-isolation here at our house. In driving around, in spite of a statewide stay-at-home order, things don't look different much. I'd say more than half the people, at least, are going about life as usual. The local store where workers congregate at lunchtime, was full like it normally is, with no possibility of social distancing there.

It's going to be with us for a good while.

Ellie's puppies started playing today. It's a funny, unco-ordinated play, but they seem to be having fun, with wagging tails.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> [MENTION=31818]The hospital made a decision to keep all employees on payroll, even if they had nothing to do for 30 days, then re-evaluate.


Your husband is on the Board, send those "nothing to do" employees on loan to California (or New York or Louisiana), we'll even pay for them, we are reaching capacity over the next two weeks and then we should be able to send them back. Let's think outside the box since the Liar-in-Chief is unable or unwilling to do so. We can beat this thing by working together. I really don't understand what the impediment is to mutual cooperation. I would like your husband, a professional I honor, to answer that question.

Oklahoma may not have a problem now, but they fit the Louisiana model to be a hot spot for the virus in the next month with the State government position to addressing this virus.



> Hospitals across the country are furloughing or laying off employees who aren't involved in the fight against COVID-19. Cape Fear Valley Health in Fayetteville said last week it would furlough about 300 employees, while Southeastern Health in Lumberton said it would reduce its staff by 201.


BIG MISTAKE! Why don't they send these professional personnel to places where they are needed?



> There are going to be some Hot Spots. CoVID-19 is very a contagious Flu that kills people of all ages who are frail, sick or have underlying health issues. The majority of those who fit that category are "elderly."_ I hate that term_. Not all oldies die from it. I've seen two people interviewed who are over 100 who had CoViD-19 and are doing well. One is a Vietnam Viet, I believe he is 101. A women in an assisted living home who's 104. I understand, CoViD-19 is extremely dangerous to vulnerable people in the population. Although, I'm healthy and active, I'm in that category due to my age. My husband has underlying health issues and he would not fair well if he catches CoViD-19 and neither would our 14-year old grandson who has season asthma. We are cautious and concerned.


That's fine and great news, but I don't want to be part of the statistics that don't fit your limited anecdotal examples



> Right now the media wants to focus on NYC because it has the most drama, death and a vocal Governor not to mention a brother who is a CNN newscaster. I'd like to see the media tour all states and show us what's going on in all metro and rural hospital areas. That would be interesting...
> 
> That's not to say NYC doesn't have a big problem and other states will likely become hot spots. Hopefully, not on the NYC's scale or we can hope the media stops it's overzealous coverage. What I'm saying is what we are seeing on the news probably isn't representative of the true picture.


The media is focusing on NYC because it is the model for States like Oklahoma if they don't take decisive measures to control the virus. I don't care that Wyoming is not currently a hot spot. What I care about is that Wyoming could become a hot spot.

The news I watch has made me very aware of what the situation is across the US. In fact they have correspondents reporting on the ground from those "not yet worried" spots. If the network you are watching is not giving you the whole picture, then switch channels.



> I don't think this CoViD-19 is be as bad as the Media and Cuomo's projections say it going to be. My Prediction. :nerd:


Does your husband, a medical professional, agree with your assessment? You are disagreeing with pretty much all the projections by medical professionals. Where are you getting your statistics? I get my predictions from medical professionals because I am not qualified to make any other conclusions. Are all the medical professionals lying to me?

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

*Experts and Trump's advisers doubt White House's 240,000 coronavirus deaths estimate
NYT - April 2, 2020*

Leading disease forecasters, whose research the White House used to conclude 100,000 to 240,000 people will die nationwide from the coronavirus, were mystified when they saw the administration's projection this week.

The experts said they don't challenge the numbers' validity but that they don't know how the White House arrived at them.

White House officials have refused to explain how they generated the figure - a death toll bigger than the United States suffered in the Vietnam War or the 9/11 terrorist attacks. They have not provided the underlying data so others can assess its reliability or provided long-term strategies to lower that death count.

*"We don't have a sense of what's going on in the here and now, and we don't know what people will do in the future," *​https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...te-houses-240000-coronavirus-deaths-estimate/

*Over the last 8 days, this is by how much ICU use went up a day in NY*


172 Fri 3/27/20

282 Sat 3/28/20

315 Sun 3/29/20

367 Monday 3/30/20

303 Tuesday 3/31/20

374 Wed 4/1/20

335 Thur 4/2/20

*From yesterday through April 8, Cuomo's math suggests the average will be 1,341 a day.*

The numbers above are the number of new ICU beds admitted each day. (We don't have discharge numbers.). When Cuomo gets on TV he says I need 10,000 l+ ICU beds by April 6 or 12 or whatever the day is now, he would have to be admitting 1,341 ICU patients per day to get there. They aren't even close to that rate.

Further, just 6 days ago Cuomo told us he needed 50k hospital beds for Covid patients by April 2. They currently report only 14k Covid hospitalizations. Again, we don't have any numbers on discharge. So while there is something going on that is stressing the hospital system (like a bad flu year along withCoViD-19) the numbers they are projecting simply aren't coming true. Yet we are making major decisions on models and projections by "experts" that are worthless only a week later, and experts question and data information is not provided on where the numbers come from.

Other questions that are starting to be asked is about the coding used for who's being hospitalized and who dying.

*Sources of the information is below. Both of these let you filter to the state and drill down to the source.*
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/

I'm not saying CoViD-19 is not dangerous. Yes we should Sheller in Place. Practice Social Distancing. Stop group gatherings. Shut Down Restaurants, Bars, Gyms. Wear Masks when needed. Prepare hospitals for treating CoViD patients.

I'm questioning information because there are a whole lot of unknowns, wild speculations and misinformation. Our top government leaders (tRUMP and his minions) have shown an inability to plan, lead and tell the truth, which is as scary as CoViD-19 or maybe more. The U.S. economy is in tatters, businesses shut down throwing people out of work which has devastating effects on peoples lives, some of who may never recover through no fault of their own. All those "little" people that work from pay-to-pay check is what makes this country's economy run.

The the fault lays squarely with our government who has not only failed to plan but to this day, is in such Chaos...we don't have the needed Test Kits that in the beginning would have changed things combined with a National Two Week Shut Down. *Months later we still don't have a Plan or the needed number of Test Kits.*


----------



## 31818

Mikki said:


> *
> Over the last 8 days, this is by how much ICU use went up a day in NY
> 
> 
> 172 Fri 3/27/20
> 
> 282 Sat 3/28/20
> 
> 315 Sun 3/29/20
> 
> 367 Monday 3/30/20
> 
> 303 Tuesday 3/31/20
> 
> 374 Wed 4/1/20
> 
> 335 Thur 4/2/20
> 
> From yesterday through April 8, Cuomo's math suggests the average will be 1,341 a day.
> 
> The numbers above are the number of new ICU beds admitted each day. (We don't have discharge numbers.). When Cuomo gets on TV he says I need 10,000 l+ ICU beds by April 6 or 12 or whatever the day is now, he would have to be admitting 1,341 ICU patients per day to get there. They aren't even close to that rate.*


*
@Mikki, please.............Gov. Cuomo has said they are currently short on ICU beds, ventilators, PPE for health workers, and professional health personnel. They could really use some of the surplus you reported in Oklahoma. Why is that NOT being sent to NYC? The reason your ICU admissions appear to be static is because NYC is currently at capacity. If NYC had everything they needed to care for those who need it, your statistics would be showing an exponential increase. It is unconscionable that doctors in NYC are having to make life or death decisions of who gets or doesn't get an ICU bed and a ventilator by a calculation of demographics. You failed to post the C-19 related death statistics in NYC for that same time period. It's now a death camp. That means that you and I, IF we had a serious case of C-19 in NYC, would probably not get an ICU bed and ventilator because of our age group. We would be consigned to die! I take that VERY personally and I hold one person, a so-called president, responsible and those who voted for him and continue to support him! From my viewpoint, this is an act of terrorism against me!

Ricky's Popi*


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## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> @Mikki, please.............Gov. Cuomo has said they are currently short on ICU beds, ventilators, PPE for health workers, and professional health personnel. They could really use some of the surplus you reported in Oklahoma. Why is that NOT being sent to NYC? The reason your ICU admissions appear to be static is because NYC is currently at capacity. If NYC had everything they needed to care for those who need it, your statistics would be showing an exponential increase. It is unconscionable that doctors in NYC are having to make life or death decisions of who gets or doesn't get an ICU bed and a ventilator by a calculation of demographics. You failed to post the C-19 related death statistics in NYC for that same time period. It's now a death camp. That means that you and I, IF we had a serious case of C-19 in NYC, would probably not get an ICU bed and ventilator because of our age group. We would be consigned to die! I take that VERY personally and I hold one person, a so-called president, responsible and those who voted for him and continue to support him! From my viewpoint, this is an act of terrorism against me!
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Seriously!! Ricky's Popi .... Calm Down. Would hate to hear you've had a Stroke and ended up in a bed California might need of a CoViD patient. :crying:

You're obviously misconstruing what I've written. I'm questioning information that lots of other people are questioning. Like the news which can drive one crazy, maybe you should avoid my posts.>

I'll let our hospital administrator know you would like for Stillwater to send whatever employees or equipment they aren't using at this time to NY. You do understand, I have no control over Oklahoma sending NY ICU beds, ventilators, PPE, healthcare workers or professional health personnel. However, I'm pretty sure Oklahoma hospitals are also projecting and will need and are currently using the aforementioned items for CoViD patients.

Doctors have always made life and death decisions, and I have not heard NY does not have enough ventilators or ICU beds? Cuomo keeps saying based on projections they are not going to have enough, but he's working on getting what he needs.

If you're suggesting I voted for the narcissistic, infantile president, I did not. I don't understand why anyone supports the guy, but I do know a lot of people who did and other than their bad decision, they're all good people...that I know. Politics isn't a topic that's discuss with that circle of friends :wink2:

Tip: If you hold a Wine Glass in each hand, you won't touch your face. It's getting close to that time.

Have a good evening ... Mikki


----------



## Mikki

Now the CDC and the WH is recommending masks. We probably should be wearing them in places like the grocery store. Gloves sound like a good idea, too.

Our two Walmart stores are operating 24/7 to hire as many of our local laid-off restaurant and other shuttered business employees. WM is so busy with online pick-up orders, I've not been able to place a pick order for a couple of weeks.

I assume this maybe company wide, but our WMs are marking and making one-way grocery aisles. Each aisle will have an employee directing people up and down and around the aisle. This will space people out for social distancing and you won't have to face each other. There will be limited number of people in aisles.

This is an article from Politico providing analyses on how American can move forward.

*The Quickest Fix is #5. *The things that WM is doing is mentioned in this segment. I've been pretty down and this segment brighten my day to read there are people out there who have Action Plans.

https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...economy-reopen-deaths-balance-analysis-159248

*5. With a Little Ingenuity, We Can Reopen Much of the Economy Right Now
A large swathe of jobs somewhere between "essential" and "optional" could be reengineered so people can go back to work soon and safely.
*


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> Would hate to hear you've had a Stroke


I don't get strokes.........I give strokes.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818

UPDATE ON MY NEPHEW

My nephew is an essential employee and stayed home from work a few days ago because he was exhibiting virus symptoms. He had come into contact with members of the public who later were determined to be virus positive. I got an update this morning. Yesterday his wife took him to the E.R. because he was having trouble breathing. Medical staff examined him, said they didn't have room for him, told him they had no test kits, gave him some antibiotics, and sent him back home, where he is now.

WHAT THE DOG!  This is a bad dream right? Somebody wake me up. This can't be happening in the US. The so-called president, his staff and members of Congress (from both parties) can get a virus test anytime they want one without exhibiting any symptoms. This country is sick both physically and morally. I don't know how it can ever be fixed.

Ricky's Popi


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## davetgabby

Ricky Ricardo said:


> UPDATE ON MY NEPHEW
> 
> My nephew is an essential employee and stayed home from work a few days ago because he was exhibiting virus symptoms. He had come into contact with members of the public who later were determined to be virus positive. I got an update this morning. Yesterday his wife took him to the E.R. because he was having trouble breathing. Medical staff examined him, said they didn't have room for him, told him they had no test kits, gave him some antibiotics, and sent him back home, where he is now.
> 
> WHAT THE DOG!  This is a bad dream right? Somebody wake me up. This can't be happening in the US. The so-called president, his staff and members of Congress (from both parties) can get a virus test anytime they want one without exhibiting any symptoms. This country is sick both physically and morally. I don't know how it can ever be fixed.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


 Laying blame, is not what the world needs now.


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## EvaE1izabeth

If these issues had clear answers, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I tell my kids every single time we talk about politics, never let anyone on either side paint a picture that the answers are simple. If they were, people wouldn’t still be arguing about it. This is exactly the same. The great news is that there ARE local leaders out there doing a good job, and around the world, and in times like this the people who politicize everything suddenly become very transparent.


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## EvaE1izabeth

Mikki said:


> *5. With a Little Ingenuity, We Can Reopen Much of the Economy Right Now
> A large swathe of jobs somewhere between "essential" and "optional" could be reengineered so people can go back to work soon and safely.
> *


I don't know about reopening the economy, but I do believe that the complete lack of any kind of plan is an obstacle here, and that creative problems solving is the key.

Many people are temporarily out of work, but there is also a need for temporary workers to fulfill needs that didn't exist before, and they don't necessarily need to require interaction. The projections of the virus in places like NY and California are not a good comparison for states with much lower populations, so the news can be especially confusing. But if we're creative and find ways to take action, instead of playing a waiting game, we can absolutely protect people and keep people home as much as possible, but give people jobs. I do think some of it is dependent on being able to do widespread testing, and being able to manufacture enough protective gear beyond what is needed in the medical field. More than ever there are people who need healthy personal shoppers, delivery services; with the surge in work from home, there is a need for support services and technology services to make that possible. Someone could create "clean" drop off sites to facilitate all kinds of services and errands for people who are high risk. Our medical insurance has covered online appointments for a while but we never used it before. My husband used it because his doctor's office is closed, and not only was it easy and effective, it made me wonder what other services we could reinvent and offer online. Even when the lockdowns are lifted, there is a huge portion of our country who will remain vulnerable for at least another year.

Imagine how it might change things if we could test huge numbers of people, including people who aren't symptomatic. In 6 months that might make all the difference, but it means we have to start working towards that now, not in 6 months.


----------



## Mikki

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I don't know about reopening the economy, but I do believe that the complete lack of any kind of plan is an obstacle here, and that creative problems solving is the key.
> 
> Many people are temporarily out of work, but there is also a need for temporary workers to fulfill needs that didn't exist before, and they don't necessarily need to require interaction. The projections of the virus in places like NY and California are not a good comparison for states with much lower populations, so the news can be especially confusing. But if we're creative and find ways to take action, instead of playing a waiting game, we can absolutely protect people and keep people home as much as possible, but give people jobs. I do think some of it is dependent on being able to do widespread testing, and being able to manufacture enough protective gear beyond what is needed in the medical field. More than ever there are people who need healthy personal shoppers, delivery services; with the surge in work from home, there is a need for support services and technology services to make that possible. Someone could create "clean" drop off sites to facilitate all kinds of services and errands for people who are high risk. Our medical insurance has covered online appointments for a while but we never used it before. My husband used it because his doctor's office is closed, and not only was it easy and effective, it made me wonder what other services we could reinvent and offer online. Even when the lockdowns are lifted, there is a huge portion of our country who will remain vulnerable for at least another year.
> 
> *Imagine how it might change things if we could test huge numbers of people, including people who aren't symptomatic. In 6 months that might make all the difference, but it means we have to start working towards that now, not in 6 months.*


You make a lot of good points. This will change a lot of things for the better, I hope the pain getting there is worth it. It's a HUGE WAKE CALL!!! the World is connected.

The lack of an *ACTION PLAN *and Good Leadership has created a lot of heartache, confusion and chaos. People are now coming out with Plans on where to go from here, which will give us all hope there is Light at the End of this Dark Tunnel.

*The LACK OF TESTING was the Key in limiting the disaster we're in now and is standing in the way of moving forward. *WHO provided hundreds of thousands of Tests used by other countries and some smart countries like South Korea had a Plan of Action that showed others what to do.

No doubt, private companies in the United States will eventually develop quick home tests everyone will use. *HURRY!!*!

Ski resorts were the first to get hit hard. Vail closed their ski resorts at the height of Spring Break in March. A family (2nd homeowners) in Telluride, CO own a biochemical development company. (They have Chinese names and I wonder where their primary home is located.)They have developed a Test and are testing everyone - 8,000 residents in Telluride for CoVid. Two weeks later they're going to test them again to see if people have developed antibodies against the virus. As the ol' saying goes: It's Who You Know ... more the What You Know.

After walking Patti this morning, my project for the day is figuring out a design and making Masks. 

Having a dog has been a lot of comfort during this whole ordeal.


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## Cassandra

Mikki, I totally agree, with this statement. “No doubt, private companies in the United States will eventually develop quick home tests everyone will use. HURRY!!!”

I live in the heart of Silicon Valley and our biotech companies are in high gear...we now have drive thru testing sites set up and yesterday Stanford University finished a two day drive thru finger prick test for antibodies for 2500 people who had flu like symptoms back in Feb and early March. If 80% of cases are mild, these antibody tests will help identify who can safely go back to work and may provide keys to vaccines. Although tests to see if you have live virus are very important, these antibody tests which are much easier to administer, may help lead us out of this.

You may have read about the local company that makes fuel cells...one of the engineers downloaded a pdf of a ventilator and their engineers are now fixing hundreds of them that were broken and sitting unused! These companies are figuring out how to all kinds of things not in their normal lanes.

We recently watched an old movie, 1991, on Pearl Harbor. The first half of movie is all about how America was unprepared, ignored all the warning signs and did stupid things like line up our fleet in one place that made it easy to destroy. I felt like it was a description of Coronavirus disaster. But the second half of movies was how they put together the Doolittle raid on Japan within six months...figuring out how to fly heavy bombers off aircraft carriers, something impossible, how to get to Japan and land in safe places in China. A movie well worth watching to give you some hope at end of these dark days!


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> After walking Patti this morning, my project for the day is figuring out a design and making Masks.


 I would be grateful if you would send me two. Masks are not available locally and not available on Amazon to this zip code.

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I would be grateful if you would send me two. Masks are not available locally and not available on Amazon to this zip code.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


We were very thankful that Minerva's (DIL) Mom stopped by with a homemade mask each for our family. I am NOT a sewer! I had gotten some neck scarves that would do in a pinch and better than nothing. But these are more comfortable, and probably more protective.

(I have a sewing machine, and I SUPPOSE I could, push come to shove, learn to thread it. But we don't have any material in the house)


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## 31818

I saw an interview with Dr. David Cho, a Chinese/Korean American, on television. He is both an M.D. and a research scientist. He and his Asian staff are working literally night and day in their lab here in California to find a cure for the C-19 virus. He said they have found something that is extremely promising. It appears that this "chemical stew" kills the virus. BUT he said it is going to take at least two more months of testing and evaluation before they can come to any preliminary conclusions. In the meantime, he said to follow the directions of Dr. Fauci to keep this virus under control. He said now is not the time to loosen those recommendations.

Rather than the Administration blaming China and Chinese people in general, it may be Chinese Americans who provide the antidote to save 1000's if not million's of lives both in the US and the World rather than simply playing the blame game by the so-called president.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## mudpuppymama

I have removed everything I said here.


----------



## Jackie from Concrete WA

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I would be grateful if you would send me two. Masks are not available locally and not available on Amazon to this zip code.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Saw something similar on TV. Looks pretty easy


----------



## davetgabby

mudpuppymama said:


> Dr. Will Falconer of Vital Animal recently said he thought he was coming down with the coronavirus. He took a dose of the homeopathic remedy Nux Vomica when he first had symptoms and he said his symptoms went away. I have ordered some to have on hand. Please do your own research. This is not medical advice. However, these are desperate times and this is safe as far as I know. And since there are no alternatives, I think having some of this on hand is a good idea.


please, this is not helpful advice.


----------



## mudpuppymama

davetgabby said:


> please, this is not helpful advice.


I am not telling anyone what to do. If I am dying I will take it. Otherwise I won't. Again, do your own research and believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. Putting toxic flea meds on my dog is considered safe by many but I do not think so. Do your own research.


----------



## Heather's

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I would be grateful if you would send me two. Masks are not available locally and not available on Amazon to this zip code.
> 
> Yesterday I was ordering a blanket from the American Blanket Company and noticed they are making masks. They look well made and I'm going to order one. You might want to order a couple Popi before they become backordered.


----------



## Cassandra

mudpuppymama said:


> Dr. Will Falconer of Vital Animal recently said he thought he was coming down with the coronavirus. He took a dose of the homeopathic remedy Nux Vomica when he first had symptoms and he said his symptoms went away. I have ordered some to have on hand. Please do your own research. This is not medical advice. However, these are desperate times and this is safe as far as I know. And since there are no alternatives, I think having some of this on hand is a good idea.


Actually, Nux Vomica has a lot of warnings. This is what Webmed says:

"Overview Information

Nux vomica is a tree. The seed is used to make medicine. Nux vomica contains strychnine and brucine, two deadly chemicals.

People use nux vomica for erectile dysfunction (ED), swelling of the stomach, constipation, anxiety, migraine, and many other conditions, but there is no good scientific evidence to support these uses. Nux vomica is also unsafe.

How does it work?
Nux vomica contains strychnine and other chemicals that affect the brain and cause muscle contractions. This can lead to convulsions and death. Strychnine in amounts that are too small to produce symptoms can still be a serious problem. Small amounts of strychnine build up in the body with continued use, especially in people with liver disease. This can cause death in a period of weeks. Strychnine poisoning can be detected with laboratory tests."


----------



## 31818

I read a scholarly article by a PHD Forensic Economist yesterday. He was comparing the devolution of the US during the Great Depression and the potential devolution of the US today as a result of the pandemic. His focus was on President Herbert Hoover and what he did right to mitigate the depression (which was very little) and what he did wrong. The authors concludes that Hoover was not directly responsible for the depression in the US starting in the late 1920's. That was caused by the results of WW1 and poor economic policies primarily in Europe. But the author does conclude that Hoover was responsible for the results of the world depression in the US.

Hoover was a reactionary, ultra right wing, world isolationist, conservative Republican. He refused to take a leadership role at the Federal level because he believed in "less government is better government." He urged individual States governments should take responsibility for their own State. This resulted in a hodge-podge of uncoordinated and uncontrolled local policies and strategies. The biggest and most devastating mistake Hoover made was not closing the Federal Bank system in 1931. His staff of non-political advisers and even some of his GOP party members urged him to close the banks and ration money withdrawals. He refused to take that advice. When the stock market crashed, there was a run on the US banking system (hoarding money so to speak) and the banking system collapsed. The US suffered through a subsequent 8 years of economic hardship until the start of WW2.

I hope history does not repeat itself, but the parallels are striking!

Ricky's Popi


----------



## mudpuppymama

Cassandra said:


> Actually, Nux Vomica has a lot of warnings. This is what Webmed says:
> 
> "Overview Information
> 
> Nux vomica is a tree. The seed is used to make medicine. Nux vomica contains strychnine and brucine, two deadly chemicals.
> 
> People use nux vomica for erectile dysfunction (ED), swelling of the stomach, constipation, anxiety, migraine, and many other conditions, but there is no good scientific evidence to support these uses. Nux vomica is also unsafe.
> 
> How does it work?
> Nux vomica contains strychnine and other chemicals that affect the brain and cause muscle contractions. This can lead to convulsions and death. Strychnine in amounts that are too small to produce symptoms can still be a serious problem. Small amounts of strychnine build up in the body with continued use, especially in people with liver disease. This can cause death in a period of weeks. Strychnine poisoning can be detected with laboratory tests."


Homeopathic remedies should be used under the direction of a knowledgeable homeopath. Have you looked at the side effects of common drugs? Any herb, drug or homeopathic remedy can cause problems. Please ignore my post.


----------



## 31818

mudpuppymama said:


> Dr. Will Falconer of Vital Animal recently said he thought he was coming down with the coronavirus. He took a dose of the homeopathic remedy


*NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!*

*How does Nux Vomica work? Nux vomica contains strychnine and other chemicals that affect the brain and cause muscle contractions. This can lead to convulsions and death. ... Small amounts of strychnine build up in the body with continued use, especially in people with liver disease. *

There is no known antidote to C-19 at this time. @mudpuppymama I ask that you self delete your post. This kind of post is getting people in trouble with law enforcement. Please Havalovers, do not fall for this kind of miracle cure.

Ricky's Popi


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## mudpuppymama

I erased my entire post on nux vomica.


----------



## mudpuppymama

Ricky Ricardo said:


> *NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!*
> 
> How does Nux Vomica work? Nux vomica contains strychnine and other chemicals that affect the brain and cause muscle contractions. This can lead to convulsions and death. ... Small amounts of strychnine build up in the body with continued use, especially in people with liver disease.
> 
> There is no known antidote to C-19 at this time. @mudpuppymama I ask that you self delete your post. This kind of post is getting people in trouble with law enforcement. Please Havalovers, do not fall for this kind of miracle cure.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I am sorry I brought this up and have deleted my post. I will use it if I get desperate but everyone else...just ignore what I said.


----------



## 31818

mudpuppymama said:


> I will use it if I get desperate


You can lead a Havadoggie to water, but you can't make him drink. I am following CDC advice so I won't have to get desperate.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## mudpuppymama

Just so we are on the same page with regard to side effects...here is what I found on Heartgard Plus which is what many people give their dogs monthly for their entire life.

https://www.bestvetcare.com/blog/he...-can-you-find-with-this-preventive-treatment/

Point I am making is that any drug or herb can cause problems. There is always good and bad and they should be administered under careful guidance. Again, sorry I freaked everyone out just trying to share a story. Please ignore everything I said.


----------



## davetgabby

mudpuppymama said:


> I erased my entire post on nux vomica.


thanks, and here explains the problem with this https://www.theguardian.com/comment...out-covid-19-can-be-as-dangerous-as-the-virus


----------



## 31818

Ricky Ricardo said:


> UPDATE ON MY NEPHEW
> 
> My nephew is an essential employee and stayed home from work a few days ago because he was exhibiting virus symptoms. He had come into contact with members of the public who later were determined to be virus positive. I got an update this morning. Yesterday his wife took him to the E.R. because he was having trouble breathing. Medical staff examined him, said they didn't have room for him, told him they had no test kits, gave him some antibiotics, and sent him back home, where he is now.
> 
> WHAT THE DOG!  This is a bad dream right? Somebody wake me up. This can't be happening in the US. The so-called president, his staff and members of Congress (from both parties) can get a virus test anytime they want one without exhibiting any symptoms. This country is sick both physically and morally. I don't know how it can ever be fixed.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


FURTHER UPDATE ON MY NEPHEW

He had been taking his antibiotics but last night he was slipping in and out of consciousness. His wife took him back to the E.R. Okay, E.R. staff said he was slipping into a coma and now qualified for a virus swab, which they gave him. They said they had no room in the hospital for him (unless he had C-19) and sent him back home. The test results will take "about a week" to get back. He could be dead by then. Members of Congress and the so-called president get results back in 4 hours without exhibiting any symptoms! For those of you California, this is in the Fresno/Clovis area.

WHAT THE  is going on? I blame the so-called president!

Ricky's Popi


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I read a scholarly article by a PHD Forensic Economist yesterday. He was comparing the devolution of the US during the Great Depression and the potential devolution of the US today as a result of the pandemic. His focus was on President Herbert Hoover and what he did right to mitigate the depression (which was very little) and what he did wrong. The authors concludes that Hoover was not directly responsible for the depression in the US starting in the late 1920's. That was caused by the results of WW1 and poor economic policies primarily in Europe. But the author does conclude that Hoover was responsible for the results of the world depression in the US.
> 
> Hoover was a reactionary, ultra right wing, world isolationist, conservative Republican. He refused to take a leadership role at the Federal level because he believed in "less government is better government." He urged individual States governments should take responsibility for their own State. This resulted in a hodge-podge of uncoordinated and uncontrolled local policies and strategies. The biggest and most devastating mistake Hoover made was not closing the Federal Bank system in 1931. His staff of non-political advisers and even some of his GOP party members urged him to close the banks and ration money withdrawals. He refused to take that advice. When the stock market crashed, there was a run on the US banking system (hoarding money so to speak) and the banking system collapsed. The US suffered through a subsequent 8 years of economic hardship until the start of WW2.
> 
> I hope history does not repeat itself, but the parallels are striking!
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I'm independent politically. I do understand the need for the federal government to get involved and provide oversight, guidance, and supplies, and I do think they messed up. But, I do believe that each state should be overseeing the epidemic in their own state.

Social media and technology has made our worlds smaller than they have ever been, but our worlds are still vastly different from state to state, region to region. As I follow the local news and covid crisis, I can see the enormous difference in the impact of covid-19 in different parts of my state. It is my own local government who are able to make decisions about the people who are in it. As a person who has very cynical towards government bureaucracy, I have been surprised that I agree with most of what has been done in my area.

That being said, states shouldn't have to compete with each other over resources, it's just crazy. And it is mind blowing to me that there STILL isn't any kind of plan in place for moving forward. It's true we don't know how long this will last and there are still many unknowns, but establishing mile markers, even if they have to change along the way, would help our communities see what we're sacrificing and working towards and root for those milestones together. Saying "when this is under control" and "when will it end" is not effective. What does that look like? I don't know, but I imagine it means we have widespread testing, healthcare workers have access to appropriate supplies, we have adequate health facilities available to support those who are sick, resources available for vulnerable populations, masks or face coverings readily available for the general public, basic cleaning supplies, hand soaps, and sanitizers are available in stores again, regional plans are in place to gradually and carefully open stores and services and they are able to protect their workers, and most importantly, the virus has slowed based on data for a particular region.

I don't believe the problem is that the government isn't controlling the market. The problem is that people don't have confidence in the government managing this crisis. And I don't blame them. I find the stories of many people and companies across the country finding innovative ways of helping to manufacture supplies and provide help right now inspiring. I think that's what will really provide the greatest relief.


----------



## Mikki

krandall said:


> We were very thankful that Minerva's (DIL) Mom stopped by with a homemade mask each for our family. I am NOT a sewer! I had gotten some neck scarves that would do in a pinch and better than nothing. But these are more comfortable, and probably more protective.
> 
> (I have a sewing machine, and I SUPPOSE I could, push come to shove, learn to thread it. But we don't have any material in the house)


The recommended material is an old cotton T-Shirt or pillow case. I used to sew a lot but haven't in years, except in a pinch. I did a trial run today and my husband and daughter think what I did is perfect. Me not so much.

I need elastic and found the fabric store is OPEN! It's an Essential Business. I'm hoping some entrepreneur is making and selling masks at the fabric store.


----------



## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> FURTHER UPDATE ON MY NEPHEW
> 
> He had been taking his antibiotics but last night he was slipping in and out of consciousness. His wife took him back to the E.R. Okay, E.R. staff said he was slipping into a coma and now qualified for a virus swab, which they gave him. They said they had no room in the hospital for him (unless he had C-19) and sent him back home. The test results will take "about a week" to get back. He could be dead by then. Members of Congress and the so-called president get results back in 4 hours without exhibiting any symptoms! For those of you California, this is in the Fresno/Clovis area.
> 
> WHAT THE  is going on? I blame the so-called president!
> 
> Ricky's Popi


If he doesn't have CoViD you don't want him in the hospital where he may catch it. I'm surprised if he was slipping in and out of consciousness the ER doc would not do something. Don't over react, your nephew may just be sick. It sounds weird they can't get a result back for a week!! They're doing those with in hours in NY. Does your nephew have a doctor? They might try another hospital if he can get to another one.


----------



## ShamaMama

Ricky Ricardo said:


> We run the same risk and threat in the US unless the Federal Government takes a strong hand in providing guidance and leadership. If that requires calling out the National Guard and military to maintain control and order, then let's do it. That's what they're there for. What concerns me is that there were 3.7 million guns sold in the US last month. Crazy gun nuts are now weaponized and I fear that they will take the law into their own hands. The Federal Government should shut down all gun sales right now. There are more than enough guns for people to protect themselves already! We are the most individually weaponized country in the world! What are we afraid of? If someone wants to rob me, come and help yourself because I don't own any guns, however you will have to deal with one VERY ANGRY Havanese if you break in! Ricky is fearless and he WILL take a bite out of crime if provoked.


This week, I went back to teaching after being home on Spring Break from March 23-27. I finally had a moment to catch up on the Havanese Forum, and I'm thinking I may only have time to catch up on this thread! I think I just read some 70 posts ...

I agree with what you are saying about how crazy it is that we have so many guns in this country. I chose this quote, however, because of the idea of sweet Ricky ever being angry and biting anyone! I just can't see it!

And, I can't believe, that in the same post, where you're conversing with Mikki, that you say that you have a neighbor named Mikki. Is that really true? I do NOT know anyone named Mikki other than my friend from the online Havanese forum named Mikki. Who else here knows a Mikki? I am just shaking my head with a smile on my face. You kill me, Popi, you really do. You may know more people and you may have had more experiences than anyone else I've ever met!

Here's a video of the Surgeon General showing how to make your own face mask:






I am very sorry to hear about your nephew. Just horrible.

I will set up another HF Zoom meeting for this Friday or Saturday. (Does anyone have a preferred day or time? If so, PM me.)

I liked DaveTGabby's post about the most trusted sources of news for information about the coronavirus in the United States as of March 2020.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104557/coronavirus-trusted-news-sources-by-us/

Surely, when social media came in last, they didn't mean the online Havanese forum, which is my only social media outlet ... :wink2:

I liked Cassandra's post (189) about having hope.

Finally, Melissa, I was very sorry to hear about your mom. Please keep us posted about life in Uganda.

In Minnesota, testing has confirmed 935 cases of COVID-19, and 29 people have died. The county where my parents live finally has two cases. The county where my husband's school is located is considered a "hot spot." (Population 20,000; 32 cases; 4 deaths.)

https://www.twincities.com/2020/04/...ditional-deaths-70-new-confirmed-cases-in-mn/

https://www.twincities.com/2020/03/...nnesota-county-is-a-coronavirus-hot-spot-why/


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## ShamaMama

_I am not on Facebook, but DH is. The following was posted on Friday by a doctor named Derrick Smit ..._

Derrick Smit
April 3 at 9:11 AM ·

"Who's going to pay for it?"

Last words I'll never forget // the response my patient gasped out (between labored breaths) to me and my team, after we explained that he needed to be intubated and placed on a ventilator. We then called his wife to have him speak to her for what was likely his last opportunity, as many patients do not recover once tubed.

This situation is by far the worst thing I've witnessed in my collective 12 years of critical care & anesthesia. Next-level heartbreak = having to hear a dying patient use his last words to worry about healthcare finances.

This country is truly a failed state, and it's so sickening to witness firsthand, more blatantly than ever.

"As COVID-19 spreads around the world, now impacting over 700,000 people in 194 countries and territories, there is a clear difference in how well various countries are containing the pandemic. Those countries that have universal, publicly financed health care systems are better able to coordinate their responses and care for those who are ill. They have been the fastest to slow the spread of the virus."


----------



## Heather's

Ricky Ricardo said:


> FURTHER UPDATE ON MY NEPHEW
> 
> He had been taking his antibiotics but last night he was slipping in and out of consciousness. His wife took him back to the E.R. Okay, E.R. staff said he was slipping into a coma and now qualified for a virus swab, which they gave him. They said they had no room in the hospital for him (unless he had C-19) and sent him back home. The test results will take "about a week" to get back. He could be dead by then. Members of Congress and the so-called president get results back in 4 hours without exhibiting any symptoms! For those of you California, this is in the Fresno/Clovis area.
> 
> WHAT THE  is going on? I blame the so-called president!
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Being a nurse I can't imagine the ER ever discharging a patient who is slipping in and out of consciousness or into a coma. If the ER staff told me my DH was slipping into a coma he wouldn't be leaving the hospital. There must be a misunderstanding.


----------



## ShamaMama

Citizens who lost health coverage in the past two weeks due to economic collapse ...


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

ShamaMama said:


> I will set up another HF Zoom meeting for this Friday or Saturday. (Does anyone have a preferred day or time? If so, PM me.)


Are you teaching remotely or are you back in a physical building?

Our spring break starts tomorrow, so a Zoom meetup will probably be the highlight of my week!


----------



## 31818

Heather's said:


> Being a nurse I can't imagine the ER ever discharging a patient who is slipping in and out of consciousness or into a coma. If the ER staff told me my DH was slipping into a coma he wouldn't be leaving the hospital. There must be a misunderstanding.


I don't know what is going on, we are getting updates from his wife. Evidently the hospital is saving beds for confirmed C-19 victims, I don't know and neither does she. She said they gave him an injection of antibiotics and an even stronger dose of antibiotic pills, She said he is doing better tonight at home. Maybe everyone is exaggerating and over-reacting? Maybe he just has pneumonia? Help me understand @Heather's, I'm floundering here.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## ShamaMama

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Are you teaching remotely or are you back in a physical building?


Remotely. For sure through May 4, but most likely through the end of the school year.

This is not online or distance learning ? A.J. JULIANI


----------



## Heather's

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I don't know what is going on, we are getting updates from his wife. Evidently the hospital is saving beds for confirmed C-19 victims, I don't know and neither does she. She said they gave him an injection of antibiotics and an even stronger dose of antibiotic pills, She said he is doing better tonight at home. Maybe everyone is exaggerating and over-reacting? Maybe he just has pneumonia? Help me understand @Heather's, I'm floundering here.
> 
> I'll send you a PM today.


----------



## ShamaMama

Uplifting article ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/03/veteran-survived-coronavirus/


----------



## 31818

UPDATE ON NEPHEW

I was informed last night that the results of my nephew's C-19 came back negative yesterday. This is great news but his current illness remains un-diagnosed. he remains at home, in bed on high doses of antibiotics.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> UPDATE ON NEPHEW
> 
> I was informed last night that the results of my nephew's C-19 came back negative yesterday. This is great news but his current illness remains un-diagnosed. he remains at home, in bed on high doses of antibiotics.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Well, I know you continue to worry about him, but that IS good news, and frankly, if he DOESN'T have Covid, he's probably safer at home as long as he doesn't need O2!!!


----------



## Mikki

@davetgabby...looks like Canada is doing a good job of controlling COVID. Wish we had the intellect of Canadians. What is your country doing?

Mikki


----------



## davetgabby

ramping up supplies especially respirators. Providing financial aid to those laid off. Banks are giving mortgage aid . Limiting to gatherings of max. 5 people. Providing child day care for critical staff. Staying home and limiting grocery shopping. Leading research here https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...ntists-isolate-coronavirus-to-speed-research/

Canada was pivotal in describing SARS, largely because Ontario was hit hard by the virus, said Murthy, but at the time, research that would have helped the response to the outbreak was minimal. After SARS, researchers recognized that coronaviruses could be a problem in the future, said Murthy.

"We've learned quite a bit over the past 17 years."

[ Sign up for our Health IQ newsletter for the latest coronavirus updates ]

The Canadian Institute for Health Research - a funding body for health research in the country - has been "imperative" in helping to co-ordinate the global response to the new coronavirus as it relates to research priorities, such as the development of a preventative vaccine and therapeutic treatments, he said.
Charu Kaushic, the scientific director for the institute's infection and immunity division, said the CIHR was able to put together a "rapid response" to COVID-19, making $6.75 million available for research into the new virus, a number she said will rise significantly when the total amount is announced in the coming days.

Kaushic agreed with Murthy that SARS was a catalyst for change in Canada.

"Since then, we've learned so many lessons," said Kaushic, who also teaches in the department of pathology and molecular medicine at McMaster University in Hamilton. "We are much better prepared, both from a public health perspective, but also from a research perspective."

Dr. Josef Penninger, who worked at Toronto's Princess Margaret Hospital during the SARS outbreak, said he is "totally amazed" at the speed with which scientists and some biotech companies have responded to COVID-19.

Penninger, the director of UBC's Life Sciences Institute and Canada 150 chair in functional genetics, helped find the pathway through which SARS entered human cells and began to replicate _ the protein ACE2 _ which led to the development of a drug that could now help treat COVID-19.

"It turns out the new coronavirus uses exactly the same mechanism," to enter cells, he said, adding that the drug, APN01, has already been tested on humans. "We have ample data in humans already showing this protein we made is a therapy. It does exactly as we assumed it should do."

But APN01 must still be tested in carefully controlled clinical trials before it is approved, he said.

Penninger is part of an international team working with Austrian biotech company Apeiron Biologics, which he co-founded, to conduct a pilot clinical trial in China involving 24 patients with severe cases of COVID-19.

The drug has arrived in China, he said, and the trial could start any day now. Half of the patients will receive the drug and half will receive a placebo with the results analyzed by an international panel of exerts, said Penninger, who hopes the drug will move quickly into a larger and definitive trial.

"It was all started in Canada," Penninger said.


----------



## krandall

Read a bit about it online, and it sounds like it is most effective in initial phases of infection. Since, at least in the US, they won't even TEST someone until they are pretty darned sick, (high fever) it sounds like they will already be pretty well past that window. I don't know if you are testing vastly more people in Canada than we are here.


----------



## krandall

Here's another interesting interactive "scoreboard". This one shows how well your area is doing on social distancing. No isea how accurate it is, but fun to fun to play with: https://www.unacast.com/covid19/soc...Cq-GUSmVCU70gvpZ4Na89aZmU4wyK9LgY0#scoreboard


----------



## 31818

krandall said:


> No isea how accurate it is, but fun to fun to play with:


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'm very skeptical. Methodology used is very short on details. Apparently a user pays them to become an information gatherer by giving them permission to track your mobile device location! The two company founders background is in "sales and marketing." A link to Forbes magazine is provided by one founder, Thomas Walle. However the link on Forbes clearly says he paid Forbes to put his information on Forbes. My concern is that this company is using "clicks" to mine information from visitors and then sold to third parties. I advise extreme caution when visiting this site. I know I will not be visiting it again.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'm very skeptical. Methodology used is very short on details. Apparently a user pays them to become an information gatherer by giving them permission to track your mobile device location! The two company founders background is in "sales and marketing." A link to Forbes magazine is provided by one founder, Thomas Walle. However the link on Forbes clearly says he paid Forbes to put his information on Forbes. My concern is that this company is using "clicks" to mine information from visitors and then sold to third parties. I advise extreme caution when visiting this site. I know I will not be visiting it again.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Oh, I didn' realize THAT part! That's sneaky!!!


----------



## 31818

krandall said:


> Oh, I didn' realize THAT part! That's sneaky!!!


Yeah the scam artists are out in force right now, especially in senior communities that seem to be particularly susceptible. Some people claim they have had their bank accounts hacked. It is a shame that there are people who try to take advantage of people who are suffering and fearful during this tragedy. I don't want to live my life being paranoid and suspicious, but right now it is a real challenge for me with the C-19 virus, people who don't follow the health guidelines, and Internet scoundrels who want to invade my security and privacy.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## ShamaMama

Billy Joel song parody by a friend of our neighbor:






https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/W...-is-a-Dumpster-Fire-submission-569438371.html


----------



## 31818

Momi went foraging for groceries this morning. She suited up appropriately with mask, rubber gloves. hand sanitizer, and bleach wipes. She went to Trader Joe's and Sprouts. She said both stores were 90+% stocked. She was able to get everything on her rather extensive list except for just one item. She did find beautiful pineapples, large sweet strawberries, bananas (three bunches), and fresh asparagus (she bought 3 pounds it looked so good). She is not hoarding, we use copious amounts of these items even in 'normal' times. I made myself a smoothie with some of the bananas and strawberries, oatmeal, and almond milk for breakfast - so good I'd like to make one for everyone on HF.

Momi said that everyone, staff and customers were wearing masks, 100%. She said everyone was keeping a 6 feet distance and even more. Everyone was in high spirits, good humor, polite, and courteous. She always takes her own bags to pack groceries, but today that was not even allowed. No problem, she took the groceries in the cart and packed them into her bags at the car. When she came home, she said it felt like she'd just been on vacation!

The County we live in is one of the largest in the nation in terms of land mass and with 2.4M residents of diverse ethnic backgrounds. Even though California has mandated strict mitigation measures, our County Board of Supervisors has even topped that with additional restrictions. The vast majority of our residents are taking these restrictions seriously. Consequently we have a relatively low rate of C-19 infections. The even better news is that we have apparently peaked and are now on the downside of the slope. A month ago, most of the deaths were occurring in nursing homes but the County Health Dept. was all over that immediately with mandatory isolation and decentralization. Now the death toll as a result of C-19 at nursing homes is almost nothing. We have large populations of Black, Hispanic, Native American and Hmong (Cambodian) populations that are suffering a higher than average C-19 death toll at this time, primarily from complications due to Diabetes, Hypertension, and lack of general health care. But most health insurance companies that serve our area are now offering no cost C-19 treatment even in E.R. and ICU, so there is no reason for people not to seek help if they have symptoms. Since local officials have been proactive and have kept the infection rate low, we still have plenty of beds, ventilators, and staff with PPE. What we don't have is sufficient testing kits and they are working on that. Our County officials have warned us not to expect easing of the restrictions for maybe the next two months or more. They do not want to let up on the brakes until this runaway car is under control.

We can do it!

This morning on our walkies, Ricky and I happened upon our good friends Sunshine, a rescue Chow, and her Momi. When Sunshine spotted us from afar she started howling in delight. Ricky and Sunshine were both on 6 feet leashes so humans (with masks) could keep a safe distance and both leashes were stretched tight so they could bump noses. I was able to toss Sunshine a treat that I had in my pocket. Sunshine Momi said Sunshine is climbing the walls in isolation and is missing all her doggie friends. I know it was the highlight of the day for all four of us!

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

krandall said:


> Read a bit about it online, and it sounds like it is most effective in initial phases of infection. Since, at least in the US, they won't even TEST someone until they are pretty darned sick, (high fever) it sounds like they will already be pretty well past that window. I don't know if you are testing vastly more people in Canada than we are here.


Testing in the United States once it gets going, it'll Ramp Up quickly. Oklahoma State University Vet Med School had a machine that does animal diagnostic tests and it works on testing COVID. OSU has been approved by the FDA to do COVID testing. A bunch of machines have been ordered and they've gotten started. They soon will be or may now be doing 2000 tests a day in Oklahoma.

The Private Market will help Save America. Hurry! Can be soon enough.


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## ShamaMama

A local agility legend has passed away, at age 56, from COVID-19. I had seen him at many agility trials and had spoken to him a few times. So, so, so sad.

https://www.twincities.com/2020/04/...is-dogs-until-coronavirus-cut-his-life-short/


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## krandall

ShamaMama said:


> A local agility legend has passed away, at age 56, from COVID-19. I had seen him at many agility trials and had spoken to him a few times. So, so, so sad.
> 
> https://www.twincities.com/2020/04/...is-dogs-until-coronavirus-cut-his-life-short/


I saw Sophie post this on FB. So sad. But I don't think any of us are likely to remain untouched by this. A friend of our family, a front-line ER nurse, has just come down with it. She is at home at this point, but please keep prayers coming for her! She is supposed to be getting married in June, and her fiance is also an ER nurse.


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## ShamaMama

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend the ER nurse, Karen. The article about Clark said they had no idea how, exactly when, or from whom he contracted the virus. That's what's so scary for average people like us. But I cannot imagine being an ER nurse who is constantly exposed to danger. Even when I went to the hardware store yesterday to pick up my tuned-up lawnmower, I looked at all the people working there and thought, "What are you doing? You're risking exposure!" But of course people have to earn a living, and if they're considered essential, they can. But what a risk. Randy and I are so lucky to be able to teach from home. I am so grateful to the medical professionals who are continuing to put their lives on the line to help others. I cannot imagine doing that every day.


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## 31818

ShamaMama said:


> Randy and I are so lucky to be able to teach from home.


How are on-line classes going? How are your students responding?

I talked to my daughter last night, it was her birthday, that's about the extent of our celebration. She works from home now. She said she thought it was going to be great - no commute, no dressing up, no interruptions. She says she has come to hate it. She misses the interaction with her support staff (who she really likes). She kind of likes dressing up in office attire. And her dog, JoJo, is becoming a tyrant around the house. She normally eats around 5:30/6 PM after daughter gets home from work, but she comes into the makeshift office in a spare bedroom at 3 PM and starts growling to be fed. Very annoying and embarrassing when on a conference call with her boss and 6 other people. Why not put her outside and shut the door? Then she starts barking and really makes a fuss.

California just extended the 'stay at home order' from end of April to end of May. The lucky ones who still have a job will still be working from home another 6 weeks. But better to be 6 ft. apart than 6 ft. under.

Ricky's Popi


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## krandall

ShamaMama said:


> I'm so sorry to hear about your friend the ER nurse, Karen. The article about Clark said they had no idea how, exactly when, or from whom he contracted the virus. That's what's so scary for average people like us. But I cannot imagine being an ER nurse who is constantly exposed to danger. Even when I went to the hardware store yesterday to pick up my tuned-up lawnmower, I looked at all the people working there and thought, "What are you doing? You're risking exposure!" But of course people have to earn a living, and if they're considered essential, they can. But what a risk. Randy and I are so lucky to be able to teach from home. I am so grateful to the medical professionals who are continuing to put their lives on the line to help others. I cannot imagine doing that every day.


And from what I've read, the higher your "viral load" (the more virus you are exposed to) the sicker you are likely to get if you DO get sick... So medical workers are more likely to get extremely sick.


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## ShamaMama

Have you seen the pictures of how blue the sky is in areas of the world that were terribly polluted before everyone started staying home? They are striking. To quote from the article linked below,

"The declines are sure to be only temporary. To get healthier air for the longer term, Myllyvirta said, means shifting to clean energy and transportation, "not ordering people to stay at home at drastic economic cost." But the cleaner pandemic skies do show how fast we can bring down pollution when we reduce our burning of fossil fuels."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...emic-worse-but-lockdowns-clean-the-sky/#close


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## Tere

A man in his 50's that I grew up with has died April 1. Our parents were good friends for over 50 years and our fathers worked together for almost 50. He was the second victim in my hometown and worked with my younger brother as do his 2 brothers for the same company our fathers (and my grandfather) worked for. Now several other people who worked with him haved tested positive after coming down with symptoms, The test results took a long time even though he was in ICU on a respirator. 
I was not wanting to take Shadow in to the vet for his annual but bit the bullet and did it anyhow since this may go on for months and months and might get worse. My vet is in my zip code and although we have a lot of cases in FL and in my county, we have under 5 cases in my zipcode. The surrounding zip codes are about the same. 
Despite the low # of cases surrounding me, Shadow and I have been self-isolating for almost 4 weeks. Very quick trips (4) for food and the 1 trip to the vet. 
I notice that people are almost hostile and nasty in my neighborhood. I think that this is really taking a toll on everyone in different ways. Everyone is feeling it and I just hope that the "new normal" is not too bad for all of us!
Shadow is loving this! Mom is home for lots of walks and loving. He sees lots of people around. He may be the only one who is enjoying this normal. It might really be a dog's life. He even enjoys his vet visits.


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## ShamaMama

Ricky Ricardo said:


> How are on-line classes going? How are your students responding?


Emergency remote teaching (see articles using this terminology as opposed to terms such as online and distance learning) is certainly challenging. DH (who teaches math in a tiny town) and I (teaching French in a suburb of Minneapolis) both have a modified schedule where classes are 30 (DH) and 32 (me) minutes. Different ways of delivering instruction are acceptable in our districts, but both DH and I prefer to connect with our students daily in a video conference. For the first six days, I used Zoom, and my students' attendance was AMAZING. I couldn't believe how responsible they were being about coming to class, and I couldn't believe that only one student truly couldn't access my class. (When this began, I'd been very concerned about equity issues since we are not a 1:1 school - meaning we don't provide a Chromebook or the like to each student like some districts do.) Then our district decided to no longer use Zoom (a decision I support even though I did like Zoom - I was just lucky that no mischief or worse occurred in any of my classes), and I had one day without a video conference during which students were supposed to complete a lesson I'd set forth for them, explicitly saying that the questionnaire I'd provided would be my means of taking attendance. That day, my students' attendance was TERRIBLE! The following day, I began video conferencing through Schoology Conference. What a shock for my students to no longer be able to see each other - they could only see ME! I did that for two days. Definitely worse than Zoom in so many ways, but more secure in terms of student safety. Then yesterday, we didn't have school, but I still did school work almost all day. Yesterday, we got the news that administration would take attendance for us (I'd been taking attendance based on who attended my video conferences, but the following day, I'd have to email lists of students to the attendance office if I found out that they had legitimate reasons for not being in class - most commonly that they couldn't access the Schoology Conference!) So that was exciting! Then we found out that we're getting a new video conference option next week, Webex, so that's also good news. DH is experiencing worse attendance among his students than I am, but they've always been a tougher crowd. They live in an extremely rural community where education is not valued. I told DH about Flipgrid, which allows students to record short videos. It's great for me to be able to hear my students speaking French. DH used the Flipgrid as a bonding activity (Show me one of your favorite possessions, and tell me why it's one of your favorites) instead of a math activity, and only about a quarter of his students completed the assignment. I'll let him pick up the talking stick in a later post if he has anything else to add about emergency remote teaching.

We only have each other and Shama (who does cry a bit when we both start teaching, leaving her in her pen - she is normally in her pen from 6 AM to 4:30 PM except for when her dog walker visits her midday). I cannot imagine living in a household where multiple adults and multiple children and multiple dogs are all trying to work/attend school/live/play/get attention ...


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## krandall

ShamaMama said:


> Emergency remote teaching (see articles using this terminology as opposed to terms such as online and distance learning) is certainly challenging. DH (who teaches math in a tiny town) and I (teaching French in a suburb of Minneapolis) both have a modified schedule where classes are 30 (DH) and 32 (me) minutes. Different ways of delivering instruction are acceptable in our districts, but both DH and I prefer to connect with our students daily in a video conference. For the first six days, I used Zoom, and my students' attendance was AMAZING. I couldn't believe how responsible they were being about coming to class, and I couldn't believe that only one student truly couldn't access my class. (When this began, I'd been very concerned about equity issues since we are not a 1:1 school - meaning we don't provide a Chromebook or the like to each student like some districts do.) Then our district decided to no longer use Zoom (a decision I support even though I did like Zoom - I was just lucky that no mischief or worse occurred in any of my classes), and I had one day without a video conference during which students were supposed to complete a lesson I'd set forth for them, explicitly saying that the questionnaire I'd provided would be my means of taking attendance. That day, my students' attendance was TERRIBLE! The following day, I began video conferencing through Schoology Conference. What a shock for my students to no longer be able to see each other - they could only see ME! I did that for two days. Definitely worse than Zoom in so many ways, but more secure in terms of student safety. Then yesterday, we didn't have school, but I still did school work almost all day. Yesterday, we got the news that administration would take attendance for us (I'd been taking attendance based on who attended my video conferences, but the following day, I'd have to email lists of students to the attendance office if I found out that they had legitimate reasons for not being in class - most commonly that they couldn't access the Schoology Conference!) So that was exciting! Then we found out that we're getting a new video conference option next week, Webex, so that's also good news. DH is experiencing worse attendance among his students than I am, but they've always been a tougher crowd. They live in an extremely rural community where education is not valued. I told DH about Flipgrid, which allows students to record short videos. It's great for me to be able to hear my students speaking French. DH used the Flipgrid as a bonding activity (Show me one of your favorite possessions, and tell me why it's one of your favorites) instead of a math activity, and only about a quarter of his students completed the assignment. I'll let him pick up the talking stick in a later post if he has anything else to add about emergency remote teaching.
> 
> We only have each other and Shama (who does cry a bit when we both start teaching, leaving her in her pen - she is normally in her pen from 6 AM to 4:30 PM except for when her dog walker visits her midday). I cannot imagine living in a household where multiple adults and multiple children and multiple dogs are all trying to work/attend school/live/play/get attention ...


Can you leverage Shama as a way to help get your kids interested in attending class somehow? If they do X, Shama will do Y in class the next day?


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## EvaE1izabeth

ShamaMama said:


> Emergency remote teaching (see articles using this terminology as opposed to terms such as online and distance learning) is certainly challenging. DH (who teaches math in a tiny town) and I (teaching French in a suburb of Minneapolis) both have a modified schedule where classes are 30 (DH) and 32 (me) minutes. Different ways of delivering instruction are acceptable in our districts, but both DH and I prefer to connect with our students daily in a video conference. For the first six days, I used Zoom, and my students' attendance was AMAZING. I couldn't believe how responsible they were being about coming to class, and I couldn't believe that only one student truly couldn't access my class. (When this began, I'd been very concerned about equity issues since we are not a 1:1 school - meaning we don't provide a Chromebook or the like to each student like some districts do.) Then our district decided to no longer use Zoom (a decision I support even though I did like Zoom - I was just lucky that no mischief or worse occurred in any of my classes), and I had one day without a video conference during which students were supposed to complete a lesson I'd set forth for them, explicitly saying that the questionnaire I'd provided would be my means of taking attendance. That day, my students' attendance was TERRIBLE! The following day, I began video conferencing through Schoology Conference. What a shock for my students to no longer be able to see each other - they could only see ME! I did that for two days. Definitely worse than Zoom in so many ways, but more secure in terms of student safety. Then yesterday, we didn't have school, but I still did school work almost all day. Yesterday, we got the news that administration would take attendance for us (I'd been taking attendance based on who attended my video conferences, but the following day, I'd have to email lists of students to the attendance office if I found out that they had legitimate reasons for not being in class - most commonly that they couldn't access the Schoology Conference!) So that was exciting! Then we found out that we're getting a new video conference option next week, Webex, so that's also good news. DH is experiencing worse attendance among his students than I am, but they've always been a tougher crowd. They live in an extremely rural community where education is not valued. I told DH about Flipgrid, which allows students to record short videos. It's great for me to be able to hear my students speaking French. DH used the Flipgrid as a bonding activity (Show me one of your favorite possessions, and tell me why it's one of your favorites) instead of a math activity, and only about a quarter of his students completed the assignment. I'll let him pick up the talking stick in a later post if he has anything else to add about emergency remote teaching.
> 
> We only have each other and Shama (who does cry a bit when we both start teaching, leaving her in her pen - she is normally in her pen from 6 AM to 4:30 PM except for when her dog walker visits her midday). I cannot imagine living in a household where multiple adults and multiple children and multiple dogs are all trying to work/attend school/live/play/get attention ...


It is interesting to hear the difference in implementation between states. Teachers do occasional video conferences here but outside of math they are mostly to build morale. Both of my kids' math teachers host optional video conferences during the usual class time to offer help or more detailed instruction. Kids work on their own schedules at home, so attendance isn't taken. There is supposed to be one assignment per class period, so I think that's how they consider attendance credit. Most of the teachers post instructional videos, but aside from math most of them are third party videos or other online resources. DD refuses to watch the math videos, she just does the homework, which is driving me crazy. She's good at figuring things out so she usually gets away with this and then a few months down the line, when new concepts are building on the old, it turns out she missed something. In elementary school she spent a year multiplying 68x23 by multiplying 68x20, which she could do in her head, and then 68x3, and adding them together. No one realized she hasn't learned double digit multiplication, and the only reason I figured it out is because she kept asking for tons of scratch paper when she started working on larger numbers. This is the kind of thing I worry about for all of the kids right now who seem fine. For some kids struggling will be more obvious, but a lot of kids will have leftover "stuff" from this down the line. Teachers, too! But, it's the big picture that is really important here, we'll just have to figure it out.

I know our school has divided all of the kids up between all of the teachers so they're all assigned a teacher in addition to their school counselor. When DS was having log-in trouble, we received two different calls to check in and see how they could help. Families have the option to check out a chrome book, but it's based on need and there's a limited number. It sounds pretty good at first, but many families have both parents working from home and multiple children in school, so even families with multiple devices have challenges sharing electronics. We're fortunate to have a "kids' MacBook" which is pretty old but perfect for this, and our kids have iPads, but with DH working from home, too, the bigger issue right now is finding a quiet place for everyone to work that isn't a bedroom (I'm pretty permissive but there are a million reasons why I don't want my kids "working on homework" online in their bedrooms with closed doors). I let DD use my laptop a few times and now she seems to think it's hers :surprise:

I'm thankful for all of the teachers like you doing an incredible amount of work right now! I read the article you posted and I appreciate the insight.


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## ShamaMama

EvaE1izabeth said:


> In elementary school she spent a year multiplying 68x23 by multiplying 68x20, which she could do in her head, and then 68x3, and adding them together. No one realized she hasn't learned double digit multiplication, and the only reason I figured it out is because she kept asking for tons of scratch paper when she started working on larger numbers.


I read this to DH who teaches high school math. He said that's exactly how she should be multiplying big numbers! He's going to dictate to me right now: "This is called the distributive property. If you know how the distributive property works, you understand place value, and you have memorized your multiplication tables from 2 to 9, you can multiply big numbers in your head."

He said your daughter should be praised for understanding that, and he doesn't understand why it's not often taught that way.


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## ShamaMama

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Kids work on their own schedules at home, so attendance isn't taken.


The Minnesota governor (coincidentally a former high school social studies teacher from the city where we live) is requiring that districts take attendance during this period of "staying at home." I'm excited because we're about to get a new way of tracking attendance when we return to school on Tuesday. I hope it won't result in students thinking that if they have attendance taken the new way they can skip my class!


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## ShamaMama

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I'm thankful for all of the teachers like you doing an incredible amount of work right now! I read the article you posted and I appreciate the insight.


Thank you, EvaE1izabeth!


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## Heather's

The Easter bunny delivered large packages of TP to the grocery store this morning. :grin2:


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## adalah

Hope hopefully this calamity is fast passed


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## 31818

adalah said:


> Hope hopefully this calamity is fast passed


"Hope" is good to have, but it is not a strategy to beat this calamity. Wearing a mask, practicing social distancing, staying at home isolation, washing your hands frequently, keeping hands away from face, and not opening up the economy until health professionals say it is safe to do so is a strategy to beat this calamity in the quickest way possible.

Stay safe and stay healthy, we need as many Havaowners as possible to take care of all these wonderful Havadoggies.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818

Heather's said:


> The Easter bunny delivered large packages of TP to the grocery store this morning. :grin2:


Somebody went on an Easter Egg Hunt! :wink2:

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

We should all *post Mask Photos of ourselves* as a rememberance of this Weird and Scary time._ I'm SMILING! for the camera. (I hope to be round to remember)_. A Mask hides lots of things.Truly.... this is so weird, but most everyone is doing it and we'll be doing it for a while longer. _GRRRR! when I see those not wearing a mask in the grocery store. _ Wear your glasses it provides some protection against the virus.

It had been two weeks since I went to the grocery store. I was going to order online but husband wanted to pick out the "stuff." I prepared a two week meal list, wrote down what we needed and ACTUALLY remembered to take the list.

But waking up I discovered I have *Agoraphobia - Fear of leaving the house. Symptoms: Anxiety and Fear of Death. 
*
Husband got us there by 7:30 a.m. Senior hours were 6 a.m. Too early!! now that we are watching The Killing on HULU and it keeps us up until at least 10 p.m.

But 7:30 a.m. worked. There were very few people there. Lots of new, young, energetic, cute and friendly employees walking up and down the aisles filling blue containers for SMART ONLINE shoppers. WM hired a lot of employees restaurants let go and in my town that is mostly college students.

I spent more money on FOOD than I ever had at WM. My husband kept saying, "where are you going to put all this?" I found places after throwing out a lot of out-of-date food. Did you know canned food does eventually go bad. The way I know that is I had a couple of cans burst open dated 2008.


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## 31818

ShamaMama said:


> And, I can't believe, that in the same post, where you're conversing with Mikki, that you say that you have a neighbor named Mikki. Is that really true? I do NOT know anyone named Mikki other than my friend from the online Havanese forum named Mikki. Who else here knows a Mikki?


I refrained from commenting until I had additional information.

I take Ricky on our walkies every morning, generally about three miles. It usually takes us about 45 minutes what with potty stops, sniffing interesting bushes, and Ricky visiting with his doggie friends. This morning it took us about 2 hours!!!!!!!!! Last week it rained almost constantly, day and night. I bet we got almost the same amount of rain in one week that we usually get in one year - seriously. This morning the day was bright, sunny, and the low 70's. Besides the stay at home order in California, my neighbors were sick and tired of being cooped up with the gloomy, wet weather. And everyone was out in force this morning, wearing masks and keeping their distance. But we all wanted to stop and chat a bit through our masks. It was wonderful, socializing a bit from a distance with everyone we met. Ricky was ecstatic too getting to sniff a little butt along the way. And we met Mikki and Howard.

Mikki and Howard were sunning themselves on a bench a little distance off the sidewalk. They looked great and were in high spirits, in fact they saw me first and called me over, they wanted to chat! I took the opportunity to ask Mikki about her name. She said her name is spelled, "Mickey, like Mickey Mouse!" I asked what her given name is and she said 'LaDonna'. I asked how she got her nickname 'Mickey.' She said she was born 2 years after the introduction of Mickey Mouse and he was very popular, even then! :surprise: Not to be outdone, Howard wanted to tell me about his name. His German father wanted to name him 'Hans' but his mother was Irish and would have none of that! So his parents compromised and named him 'Howard'. :grin2:

So when I returned home I had to Google Mickey Mouse history. Mickey was introduced in 1925, so my neighbor Mickey was born in 1927 and that makes her 93 years young! :surprise: Both she and Howard are in great shape and married close to 70 years. I am in awe of this couple. They give me confidence that I will be doing equally as well when I am their age in a couple of years. :wink2:

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> I spent more money on FOOD than I ever had at WM. My husband kept saying, "where are you going to put all this?" I found places after throwing out a lot of out-of-date food.


Momi told me the same thing. She usually goes grocery shopping once a week, but now she tries to go just once a month. She says she has NEVER spent so much money on groceries as the monthly trips. Fresh fruits and vegetables are particularly inexpensive here right now, Fresh eggs are another story. You need to take out a bank loan to buy a dozen eggs.


> Did you know canned food does eventually go bad. The way I know that is I had a couple of cans burst open dated 2008.


Be very careful of botulism! It can kill you as fast as C-19! Beware of any swollen food can. That may indicate the presence of botulism toxin. Throw any swollen can out immediately without opening it.

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Momi told me the same thing. She usually goes grocery shopping once a week, but now she tries to go just once a month. She says she has NEVER spent so much money on groceries as the monthly trips. Fresh fruits and vegetables are particularly inexpensive here right now, Fresh eggs are another story. You need to take out a bank loan to buy a dozen eggs.
> 
> Be very careful of botulism! It can kill you as fast as C-19! Beware of any swollen food can. That may indicate the presence of botulism toxin. Throw any swollen can out immediately without opening it.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Why are eggs expensive?

Lesson learned. I'm throwing out anything out-of-date even 2019, which is probably still good but if one hasn't used it in a year, you're probably not going to.

Kind of like clothes. If you haven't worn something for a couple of years (or 20/30 years) you're probably not going to wear them. :laugh2: Oh, but those 20/30 year old clothes are sooooo much better made than the junk you get today. :crying:


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> Why are eggs expensive?


I dunno, a Chinese conspiracy maybe? :wink2: Eggs are being rationed here, only two dozen per customer per day. Like TP, they are often out of stock.



> Lesson learned. I'm throwing out anything out-of-date even 2019,


Yes, throw out anything past the expiration date.

We had some clients in their early 60's. He was a successful, local M.D. They purchased a houseboat that was docked on the Seine river in central Paris as a getaway place. One cold night, they used a hibachi BBQ to heat the interior of the house boat and went to bed. :nono: The good doctor should have known better. They never woke up. It killed them both. Carbon Monoxide poisoning. I own a live aboard boat. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use any type of BBQ apparatus in an interior closed space. ALWAYS have CO monitors in your home, cabin, RV and boat. If you choose not to follow this advice, be sure to name me in your will!



> Kind of like clothes. If you haven't worn something for a couple of years (or 20/30 years) you're probably not going to wear them. :laugh2: Oh, but those 20/30 year old clothes are sooooo much better made than the junk you get today. :crying:


PLUS, they will come back in style, right?

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

*Originally posted by ShamaMam....And, I can't believe, that in the same post, where you're conversing with Mikki, that you have a neighbor named Mikki. Is that really true? I do NOT know anyone named Mikki other than my friend on the online Havanese forum named Mikki. Who else knows a Mikki?
*
*


Ricky Ricardo said:



Mikki and Howard were sunning themselves on a bench a little distance off the sidewalk. They looked great and were in high spirits, in fact they saw me first and called me over, they wanted to chat! I took the opportunity to ask Mikki about her name. She said her name is spelled, "Mickey, like Mickey Mouse!" I asked what her given name is and she said 'LaDonna'. I asked how she got her nickname 'Mickey.' She said she was born 2 years after the introduction of Mickey Mouse and he was very popular, even then! :surprise: Not to be outdone, Howard wanted to tell me about his name. His German father wanted to name him 'Hans' but his mother was Irish and would have none of that! So his parents compromised and named him 'Howard'. :grin2:

So when I returned home I had to Google Mickey Mouse history. Mickey was introduced in 1925, so my neighbor Mickey was born in 1927 and that makes her 93 years young! :surprise: Both she and Howard are in great shape and married close to 70 years. I am in awe of this couple. They give me confidence that I will be doing equally as well when I am their age in a couple of years. :wink2:

Ricky's Popi

Click to expand...

**I've always hated my name and I changed the spelling from Mickey to Mikki when I was in Junior High. When re-enrolling for school, to getting my drivers listen and marriage license. Because I did that so long it became my legal name. If I'd know that then I would have changed my name to Michelle.

My mother blamed my Paternal Grandmother for my name. She had a difficult delivery lasting days and was unconscious, when the hospital wanted to know a name to put on my birth certificate and my Grandmother named me, according to the story. My birth certificate also lists me as a second child instead of my mother's first child. I don't believe there was a child before me since she was 18 when I was born.

Mickey was a somewhat popular name around 1948 but I don't know another Mickey. Mickey Mouse was popular during grade school age and I used to be teased and called Mickey Mouse.

According to the History of naming girls Mickey it was most popular in 1948 and between 1920-1926.

Popi ... how does your 93 year old friend spell her name? She's one year older than my mother would be if she were still alive. *

*[ 2 syll. mic-key, mi-ck-ey ] The baby girl name Mickey is also used as a boy name, with the latter form being more popular. It is pronounced MIH-Kiy- or MIY-Kiy- †. Mickey has its origins in the Hebrew language and it is used largely in English. Mickey is a familiar form of Michaela.

Mickey is rare as a baby girl name. At the modest peak of its usage in 1948, 0.013% of baby girls were named Mickey. It was #543 in rank then. The baby name has suffered a substantial decline in frequency since then, and is currently of only sporadic use. In 2018, out of the family of girl names directly related to Mickey, Michaela was the most commonly used. Though there were times from 1920 to 1926 when more girls than boys were given the name Mickey, the name is today more frequently used for boys. In 1960, 5 times more boys than girls were given the name Mickey.

Baby names that sound like Mickey include Mickee, Micki (English), Mickie (English), Micky (English), Mikee, Miki (English, Japanese, and Hebrew), Mikie (Japanese), Mikki (English), Maaja, Maasai, Maca, Macee, Macey (English), Macha, Machey, Machi (Japanese), Machie, Machy, Maci (English), and Macie (English).*


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> *Popi ... how does your 93 year old friend spell her name? *


*MIC........KEY.......*m-o-uuuuuu-s-e. This makes me feel like dusting off my Mouseketeer hat. Jimmy, Roy, and all the Mouseketeers give me comfort in my miserable isolation. On Easter Sunday we happened to drive past the original Disneyland on our way to my daughter's house (yes, we kept all the C-19 protection protocols while visiting for an hour). Disneyland was a sad place with it being shut down with no visitors. WWMD (What Would Mickey Do) if he had to be isolated in this darkest hour? I know, he would go take his dog, GOOFY, on a Mousekewalkies, which is exactly what I'm going to do right now!

Goofy's Popi


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## Heather's

As of yesterday all SF Bay Area counties except two are requiring masks or face covering when out in public. The grocery store I shop at has now put up Plexiglas at the checkout.


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## mudpuppymama

Heather's said:


> As of yesterday all SF Bay Area counties except two are requiring masks or face covering when out in public. The grocery store I shop at has now put up Plexiglas at the checkout.


The grocery stores here put up the plexiglas several weeks ago. I think that is a great idea to use on a permanent basis.


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## Mikki

*Everyone (our government officials and germ experts) are just making guesses on what to do. One of these days there will be data and we'll probably learn shutting down the economy and social distancing, didn't make a whit of difference in death rates, except it just made COVID last longer than if it had been turned loose.

I have NO opinion and just going along with what I'm told to do because I Do KNOW NOTHIN'. *

*However, here are couple of opinions.*

*
Social Distancing Doesn't Work... (((Herd Immunity ... Yikes!)) (but doesn't sound so bad coming from this guy)




**

Highlights from Dr Greg's 4 hour webinar about COVID.... Dr Greg is the Fork Over Knives (plant based Guru)
https://nutritionfacts.org/2020/04/16/takeaways-from-my-webinar-on-covid-19/*


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> *Everyone (our government officials and germ experts) are just making guesses on what to do.*


*
Correction, Whitehouse government experts are just making guesses based on opening up the economy. Medical professional germ experts are giving direction based on the changing data as we learn more about this particular strain of virus to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the general population.




One of these days there will be data and we'll probably learn shutting down the economy and social distancing, didn't make a whit of difference in death rates, except it just made COVID last longer than if it had been turned loose.

Click to expand...

We already have data, both in the US and around the world, that shutting down the economy, social distancing, and wearing masks does make a whit of difference in flattening the curve, reducing the number of cases, and reducing the death rate.




I have NO opinion and just going along with what I'm told to do because I Do KNOW NOTHIN'.

Click to expand...

None of us know nothin' until there is widespread and universal testing. In the meantime, C-19 virus is among us and it has proven to be highly contagious and deadly.




Social Distancing Doesn't Work... (((Herd Immunity ... Yikes!)) (but doesn't sound so bad coming from this guy)

Click to expand...


The good doctor is in the very small minority that is proposing 'herd immunity" as an antidote to C-19 virus. The concept is highly controversial and unproven. If the doctor believes in himself, he should go out and mingle with the protestors who want to open up the economy now, to test his theory. Put HIS life on the line, not MINE. Is the good doctor doing that? No, he knows that is far too dangerous. Judge him by his actions, not by what he says.

I will continue to say at home, social distance, and wear a mask until I can be convinced by the preponderance of the medical professionals that I should do something different or it is entirely safe for me to end my hibernation.

Ricky's Popi*


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## Mikki

@Rickey's Popi ... I'm wearing a Mask and Social Distancing. If keeping the Economy Shut Down and Stay At Home could be done until June the idea is COVID might go away. It's a horrible death for a small percentage and may cause disabilities for those who survive. Unfortunately, we have the perfect storm. An incompetent White House one can't trust and a Pandemic.

I don't see how this can work from another month, as many states are looking to open back up. People literally don't have food. Can't pay their rent. Landlords can't pay their bills. Countries that have opened back are seeing a rebound of COVID. On the bright side: The COVID death rate percentage is small. :crying: And this is the BRIGHT SIDE.

OTOH...if the country wasn't shut down large numbers of people would have gotten sick and shut it down anyway ....

COVID-19 is an old disease that's mutated and experts are still learning about COVID-19. There are no vaccines for the coronaviruses. Herd immunity stopped the ones before this one.

Billion Investor Mark Cuban says, America 2.0 will bring back manufacturing to our homeland. Robots will do the labor humans once did and the Robotic industry will provide good paying jobs to people who will design and maintain them. He speculates this will change the world because all countries have realized having China make everything wasn't such a good idea .....:Cry:

and allowing them to eat anything that moves or make it into medicines. :surprise: All the coronaviruses have come from China, as most everyone probably knows by now.

"A study found that the genetic sequence of a coronavirus, discovered in lung samples of Malayan pangolins, was highly similar to SARS-CoV-2. The two viruses shared 91% of their genetic sequence". ...https://news.yahoo.com/incredible-creature-may-coronavirus-host-001302475.html.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> OTOH...if the country wasn't shut down large numbers of people would have gotten sick and shut it down anyway ....


Exactly, it is and was a lose/lose situation we have to deal with. Until we have a vaccine developed, which in a best case scenario will probably not be until the end of 2020, the best and logical alternative is widespread testing.



> COVID-19 is an old disease that's mutated and experts are still learning about COVID-19. There are no vaccines for the coronaviruses. Herd immunity stopped the ones before this one.


The theory of herd immunity has never been verified or proven by scientific research. And if it should be proven true sometime in the future, it is a concept that will "weed out" the most vulnerable in human society - the elderly, the poor, and those with underlying issues (like compromised immune systems). I am 'pro-life' in this regard. I believe a civilized society has the obligation to protect the most vulnerable among us. It is the same reason we treat our Havanese dogs with such care and respect. If we really believed in "herd immunity" we wouldn't treat our dogs for any potential or existing diseases. We would just let the weak ones die and only the strongest would survive.



> He speculates this will change the world because all countries have realized having China make everything wasn't such a good idea .....:Cry:
> 
> and allowing them to eat anything that moves or make it into medicines. :surprise: All the coronaviruses have come from China, as most everyone probably knows by now.


Stop the Sinophobia right there! That's what our parents used to say about products made in Japan after WW2 and look now, Japan is known to make some of the highest quality merchandise in the marketplace today. I saw a statistic recently that proposed that half the stuff we use today around the world is made in China, either in whole or in part. If you want to eliminate everything in your life that is made in China. be prepared for your cost of living to as much as double! Do you think American society will stand for that?

"All the coronaviruses have come from China," That is simply not true! I am not one of the everyone who knows that. Recent strains of the Coronavirus have come from the Middle East (MERS) and Southeast Asia (SARS).

As far as eating anything that moves, do you know what is in an American hot dog or chicken nuggets or sausage? On my recent visit to Scotland, the locals thought American food was some of the grossest on the face of the earth. Of those I talked to, not one of them said they would ever let a hot dog pass their lips unless they were drunk! On the other hand, I would never let Scottish Haggis pass my lips. Food preferences have proven to be ethnocentric for better or worse.



> "A study found that the genetic sequence of a coronavirus, discovered in lung samples of Malayan pangolins, was highly similar to SARS-CoV-2. The two viruses shared 91% of their genetic sequence". ...https://news.yahoo.com/incredible-creature-may-coronavirus-host-001302475.html.


Ah, so now you are saying the C-19 virus started in Malaysia, not China. Which is it Mikki? If we should discover that future strains of Coronavirus is found in the lungs of Havanese dogs, who should we blame - America, Europe, or Cuba? Let's blame Cuba because that's who some politicians want to make a bogeyman right now.

Think this through Mikki. There are no easy answers at this time.

Peace, love, and Havanese
Ricky's Popi


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Mikki, I do get what you’re saying. At least, to me it sounds like you’re saying you’re staying home, you’re taking care, you just have very little confidence that anything is going to work at all, it’s one crisis or the other, because of the general incompetence, and the lack of knowledge no one seems to want to face. My state is in great debate over it, as I’m sure many others are, because we have incredibly contrasting populations and contraction rates in greater SLC vs. the rest of the state. No matter what we do, there are devastating consequences, and it’s a lot easier to have perspective on saving lives when we own a home to shelter in, have a job, and don’t see people getting sick in our personal spheres. I also think right now it’s like we need advances degrees in “Interpreting the News,” which places most people at a disadvantage because the news outlets are terrifyingly misleading. All of the right wing conspiracy stuff, along with social media being flooded with misinformation, emotion, shaming and villainizing, is awful, but the news coming out of major national outlets is just as bad, feeding into how this has been politicized and painting these issues that are changing every day and that we don’t really understand with conclusions that are not based in science. 

It’s a mess. I’m really grateful for the people who keep trudging forward. The small store near our house finally put up plexiglass and floor markers for 6 feet. The other major chains had them up weeks ago, though. Masks are increasing, and gloves, although I don’t know where people are finding the gloves right now. Locally private companies are testing, diverting resources to help produce supplies. I read somewhere about major chains immediately hiring displaced workers. I’m also particularly thankful for the plethora of hilarious YouTube material being released right now! Most of all I’m thankful for the individuals who are staying home, especially those people for whom staying home creates an enormous cost, and even though they may not agree with it for whatever reason. I’m trying to focus on what I can do, because all of the unknowns are the reality. Hopefully my small efforts to “stimulate the economy,” to continue ordering takeout, continue after school activities via video conference, won’t come back to bite me in 3 months and I won’t regret not using this time to hoard supplies and save extra money. 

I also just read about Germany beginning widespread antibody testing, but they aren’t linking the testing to the economy. The information they’re gathering will be critically important over the course of the next year, but it doesn’t change the next three months.


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## EvaE1izabeth

People have been protesting “made in China” for years and years before Covid-19. It’s a complicated issue and we’re seeing the results of world wide, interconnected supply chains that have been critical in the growth of our economy and in providing affordable resources in our country. It’s an issue that will most certainly be in debate now, but maybe we can start looking at it in new ways. This has been horrific, but do we want to completely change the way we manufacture in case of another pandemic 100 years from now? Maybe, maybe not. We could explore the worldwide relationships and issues that are at the root of it - such as, what happens in a city on the other side of the world can directly impact what happens here in the U.S. We can’t control what other countries do, but we can explore our own policies, and our emergency response and preparedness, and we can cooperate with world leaders and organizations instead of blaming and fighting over masks and supplies. Issues like Fair trade and increasing u.s. production deserve some discussion. Maybe in our culture we could focus more on personal financial security and reasonable personal preparedness, such as how much laundry detergent and toilet paper is 
responsible to have on hand (on a regular basis not to run out and buy because of an impending crisis), keeping the gas above half a tank instead of below, etc. 

It’s a completely separate issue from our tendency in the U.S. to generalize, label, and blame groups of people with regard to every social political issue I can think of.


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## Mikki

*
Why Do New Disease Outbreaks Always Seem to Start in China?*

The Asian Flu in 1956 killed between one and four million people worldwide. SARS in 2002 infected 8,098 and killed 774 in seventeen counties. H7N9 emerged ten years later to strike at least 1,223 people and kill four out of every ten of them. Now, the milder, yet more infectious COVID-19 has sickened more than 70,000 across the globe, resulting in 1,771 deaths.

All of these outbreaks originated in China, but why? Why is China such a hotspot for novel diseases?​
https://www.realclearscience.com/bl..._outbreaks_always_seem_to_start_in_china.html

To say China produces lots of viruses is not Not Name Blaming. It's a fact and China can change this, as can other countries, by stopping Wet Markets. China has the resources to do this. Other undeveloped countries will need help from the Developed World.. to protect the World.

*Correction: MERS ... started in the Middle East from Camels. Bats to Camels.* Epidemics come from other countries like Swine Flu came from Mexico. China is a big mover and shaker in starting epidemics.


----------



## Mikki

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Mikki, I do get what you're saying. At least, to me it sounds like you're saying you're staying home, you're taking care, *you just have very little confidence that anything is going to work at all, it's one crisis or the other, because of the general incompetence, and the lack of knowledge no one seems to want to face.*
> 
> My state is in great debate over it, as I'm sure many others are, because we have incredibly contrasting populations and contraction rates in greater SLC vs. the rest of the state. *No matter what we do, there are devastating consequences, and it's a lot easier to have perspective on saving lives when we own a home to shelter in, have a job, and don't see people getting sick in our personal spheres. *
> 
> I also think right now it's like we need advances degrees in "Interpreting the News," which places most people at a disadvantage because the news outlets are terrifyingly misleading. All of the right wing conspiracy stuff, along with social media being flooded with misinformation, emotion, shaming and villainizing, is awful, but the news coming out of major national outlets is just as bad, feeding into how this has been politicized and painting these issues that are changing every day and that we don't really understand with conclusions that are not based in science.
> 
> 
> It's a mess. I'm really grateful for the people who keep trudging forward. The small store near our house finally put up plexiglass and floor markers for 6 feet. The other major chains had them up weeks ago, though. Masks are increasing, and gloves, although I don't know where people are finding the gloves right now. Locally private companies are testing, diverting resources to help produce supplies.
> 
> *I read somewhere about major chains immediately hiring displaced workers*.
> 
> I'm also particularly thankful for the plethora of hilarious YouTube material being released right now!
> 
> Most of all I'm thankful for the individuals who are staying home, especially those people for whom staying home creates an enormous cost, and even though they may not agree with it for whatever reason.
> 
> I'm trying to focus on what I can do, because all of the unknowns are the reality. Hopefully my small efforts to "stimulate the economy," to continue ordering takeout, continue after school activities via video conference, won't come back to bite me in 3 months and
> 
> *I won't regret not using this time to hoard supplies and save extra money. *
> 
> I also just read about Germany beginning widespread antibody testing, but they aren't linking the testing to the economy. The information they're gathering will be critically important over the course of the next year, but it doesn't change the next three months.


*Dr Gregor a Plant Based expert commented someone asked why he had so many bottles of cheap Vodka in his house. He said, during a pandemic toilet paper and hand sanitizers will be hoarded. He has written about future pandemics and said 70 Proof Vodka kills virus germs and makes a good hand sanitizer. Just put it in a Spray Bottle and squirt on your hands. :grin2:*​
VERY THOUGHTFUL AND EXCELLENT POINTS! :tea:

We are one of the fortunate ones who own a home and have the options of Staying At Home and have the money to do it. This is not true of others and that personally affects and worries me.


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## 31818

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Mikki, I do get what you're saying. At least, to me it sounds like you're saying you're staying home, you're taking care, you just have very little confidence that anything is going to work at all, it's one crisis or the other, because of the general incompetence, and the lack of knowledge no one seems to want to face.


I also applaud @Mikki for doing the right thing and making the best choices under the circumstances. It is a mess! and it is a test of our true grit. Right now Momi is on a Skype video call with our daughter. JoJoMomi. They are having the best time, cackling in laughter about things, sharing frustrations, and taking comfort in their love for each other. Oh DOG, Momi is now walking her laptop around the house showing JoJoMomi things she has done to the house to pass the time and "projects" I haven't finished yet! :doh: :help:



> I also just read about Germany beginning widespread antibody testing, but they aren't linking the testing to the economy. The information they're gathering will be critically important over the course of the next year, but it doesn't change the next three months.


Germany has taken a leadership position in the World today while the US administration has abdicated that responsibility. Who would have ever thought!

Because of the vulnerable age group we are in, we are prepared to extend our current lifestyle until the end of this year. We have an advantage because we don't have children at home to manage, so it is an easy decision for us. Momi and Popi will probably still be wearing masks 6 months from now.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## 31818

Mikki said:


> *Dr Gregor a Plant Based expert commented someone asked why he had so many bottles of cheap Vodka in his house. He said, during a pandemic toilet paper and hand sanitizers will be hoarded. He has written about future pandemics and said 70 Proof Vodka kills virus germs and makes a good hand sanitizer. Just put it in a Spray Bottle and squirt on your hands. :grin2:*​
> VERY THOUGHTFUL AND EXCELLENT POINTS! :tea:


70 proof vodka is 35% alcohol. Dr. Gregor is incorrect by definition (I think he said that tongue in cheek but some will take him literally). To kill germs you need a minimum of 60% denatured alcohol. 70 proof vodka is neither. Most hand sanitizers are at least 60% denatured alcohol - check the label.


Mikki said:


> *
> Why Do New Disease Outbreaks Always Seem to Start in China?*
> 
> The Asian Flu in 1956 killed between one and four million people worldwide. SARS in 2002 infected 8,098 and killed 774 in seventeen counties. H7N9 emerged ten years later to strike at least 1,223 people and kill four out of every ten of them. Now, the milder, yet more infectious COVID-19 has sickened more than 70,000 across the globe, resulting in 1,771 deaths.
> 
> All of these outbreaks originated in China, but why? Why is China such a hotspot for novel diseases?
> com/blog/2020/02/18/why_do_new_disease_outbreaks_always_seem_to_start_in_china.html[/url]
> 
> To say China produces lots of viruses is not Not Name Blaming. It's a fact and China can change this, as can other countries, by stopping Wet Markets. China has the resources to do this. Other undeveloped countries will need help from the Developed World.. to protect the World.
> 
> *Correction: MERS ... started in the Middle East from Camels. Bats to Camels.* Epidemics come from other countries like Swine Flu came from Mexico. China is a big mover and shaker in starting epidemics.


Mikki you keep blaming China. All these outbreaks DID NOT "originated in China." Even by your own citations, Covid -19 started in Malaysia. i do agree that China as well as other developing nations need to institute better health and sanitation procedures. But these developing nations are relatively poor and under-educated. How do we change that? We change that by the U.S. taking a leadership roll in providing assistance, both advisory and monetary rather than implementing tariffs, building walls, and funding the largest military in the world to intimidate and bully.

Do we criticise the U.S. for being the leading cause of obesity in the world which leads to heart disease, hypertension, and diabetes? We do this by exporting fattening food and fast food chains around the world. Do you know how many calories there are in a McD's hamburger? I was playing Trivia once in a large group and we were asked this question: "what is the most common English word in the world today?" I missed it! Answer: "Coca-Cola" , an unhealthy beverage, high in calories. Who is the largest producer of hydrocarbons in the atmosphere during the last 50 years? Hydrocarbons produce lung disease, heart disease, asthma, and compromised immune systems. It is the U.S. Yes we can point fingers at other countries but we need to clean up our act too at the same time, which the majority of the US electorate are not willing to do. So a certain cable channel is floating the idea of a shooting war with China, wipe out all those wet markets, the one the so-called president listens to for his political advice. Well count me out, I'm not going to play in that game!

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

If you haven't seen Piers Morgan interview on CNN today, it's worth a watch.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/04/19/piers-morgan-advice-for-trump-rs-full-stelter-vpx.cnn


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## Mikki

@ Ricky Popi ... Huh?! I'm not blaming China. It is what it is.


----------



## 31818

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I also think right now it's like we need advances degrees in "Interpreting the News," which places most people at a disadvantage because the news outlets are terrifyingly misleading. All of the right wing conspiracy stuff, along with social media being flooded with misinformation, emotion, shaming and villainizing, is awful, but the news coming out of major national outlets is just as bad, feeding into how this has been politicized and painting these issues that are changing every day and that we don't really understand with conclusions that are not based in science.


Don't blame legitimate news channels for reporting the misinformation disseminated by the Whitehouse. If they were not to report it, they would be accused of censorship. What legitimate news does is report the misinformation and then have qualified health professionals debunk the misinformation. There is only one major cable outlet that is not legitimate by giving airtime to conspiracy theorists, so-called scientists who are trying to get attention with their no medical basis theories, and shock jokes who pander to a certain impressionable segment of our society. This is the go to channel the so-called president gets his policy advise from. And I am not a member of any social media- Facebook, Twitter, and (to quote a sage from Alaska) "all of um".

Edward R. Murrow was vilified by conservatives during the 1950's for taking a stand against McCarthy and his nonsense. Walter Cronkite was vilified by conservatives in the 1960's for his stand against the Viet Nam war. These two guys were part of the national news outlets and have since been recognized as heros in their profession for having the courage to speak out against the so-called politicians of their time. Now there is a movement to vilify correspondent who dare to speak out against the so-called politicians today and their campaign of misinformation. I celebrate the legitimate national news outlets today. Do they always get everything right? Heck no, but a legitimate correspondent will admit when they got it wrong. When was the last time the so-called president admitted that he was wrong? Insanity is making the same mistakes over and over again. So yeah, in my opinion, the only thing that is keeping us from going completely off the tracks right now is the legitimate national news agencies.

EDIT: BTW, I don't consider Havanese Forum to be "social media" per se because we have an opportunity to be something other than anonymous on this forum. If anyone wants my full name, residence, personal telephone number, and personal email address, send me a PM and I will be happy to exchange that information with you.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> @ Ricky Popi ... Huh?! I'm not blaming China. It is what it is.


"It is what it is", is incorrect, with no basis in fact, is what I am saying.

Peace, Love, and Havanese
Ricky's Popi


----------



## Mikki

EvaE1izabeth said:


> . I also think right now it's like we need advances degrees in "Interpreting the News," which places most people at a disadvantage because the news outlets are terrifyingly misleading. All of the right wing conspiracy stuff, along with social media being flooded with misinformation, emotion, shaming and villainizing, is awful, but the news coming out of major national outlets is just as bad, feeding into how this has been politicized and painting these issues that are changing every day and that we don't really understand with conclusions that are not based in science.


RELIABLE SOURCES _(not inside edition whatever that is_), CNN_ (I believe it was last Sunday and the name of the program) _discussed how news outlets typically report stories. The news media tries to be unbiased and provide both sides of the story. They report what Trump said and then gives the opposing argument, even when it's a known Fact what Trump is saying is a lie or purposeful misinformation.

The concern was by reporting Trump's lies and or purposeful misinformation gives the lie credibility by constantly repeating it, even when the media corrects the lie from an expert with factual information. The media realizes this is confusing to people and some people don't know what to believe. The media thinks it important to cover what Trump says and doesn't know how to handle this issue.

Some outlets have considered not covering Trumps 2-Hour _Campaign Rally_ COVID Briefs. NPR has quit covering Trump because of the lies and misinformation.


----------



## 31818

According to a report published by Johns Hopkins University today, the global death rate from C-19 is about 5% of those infected. In the United States the death rate is around 6%. I thought we had the best, most advanced health care system in the world? What happened? The CDC told us in the beginning to expect a 2% death rate maximum. Things have sure changed in two months. Infections worldwide keep going up but at a slowing rate in general. This C-19 thing is more contagious and more deadly than anyone ever thought.

Be safe everyone, following the guidelines, don't take chances.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I also applaud @Mikki for doing the right thing and making the best choices under the circumstances. It is a mess! and it is a test of our true grit. Right now Momi is on a Skype video call with our daughter. JoJoMomi. They are having the best time, cackling in laughter about things, sharing frustrations, and taking comfort in their love for each other. Oh DOG, Momi is now walking her laptop around the house showing JoJoMomi things she has done to the house to pass the time and "projects" I haven't finished yet! :doh: :help:
> 
> Germany has taken a leadership position in the World today while the US administration has abdicated that responsibility. Who would have ever thought!
> 
> Because of the vulnerable age group we are in, we are prepared to extend our current lifestyle until the end of this year. We have an advantage because we don't have children at home to manage, so it is an easy decision for us. Momi and Popi will probably still be wearing masks 6 months from now.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I will most likely have to be wearing a mask in public, and be mostly home bound until a vaccine is available. Whether I want to or not.


----------



## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> According to a report published by Johns Hopkins University today, the global death rate from C-19 is about 5% of those infected. In the United States the death rate is around 6%. I thought we had the best, most advanced health care system in the world? What happened? The CDC told us in the beginning to expect a 2% death rate maximum. Things have sure changed in two months. Infections worldwide keep going up but at a slowing rate in general. This C-19 thing is more contagious and more deadly than anyone ever thought.
> 
> Be safe everyone, following the guidelines, don't take chances.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I think, from what we are seeing here in MA, the deaths in nursing homes are driving the death rate WAY up. They have GOT to get that under WAY better control. Here in MA, they are going directly into the nursing homes to address it, now tgat they are aware of the problem, but like so much else with this disease, they were really caught behind the 8 Ball on this.


----------



## 31818

EvaE1izabeth said:


> It's a mess. I'm really grateful for the people who keep trudging forward.


I am grateful for all my friends on HF who are helping me to get through this



> I'm trying to focus on what I can do, because all of the unknowns are the reality. Hopefully my small efforts to "stimulate the economy," to continue ordering takeout, continue after school activities via video conference, won't come back to bite me in 3 months and I won't regret not using this time to hoard supplies and save extra money.


Good job! We are ordering takeout like crazy, ordering groceries by delivery, and purchasing mail order stuff we can really live without. For example I just ordered two replacement vanity lights for our master bath. We could live without them but my oh my do they look good now that they are up. Momi says, "why didn't we do this a long time ago?" We have ordered a bidet toilet seat but delivery has been delayed due to an overwhelming growth in online sales. I was talking to a UPS man who can into our neighborhood with an 18 wheeler for deliveries, I've never seen that before (we were both wearing masks and about 50 feet from each other). He said they were swamped, but he wasn't complaining, just happy to have a good paying, secure job.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818

krandall said:


> I think, from what we are seeing here in MA, the deaths in nursing homes are driving the death rate WAY up. They have GOT to get that under WAY better control. Here in MA, they are going directly into the nursing homes to address it, now tgat they are aware of the problem, but like so much else with this disease, they were really caught behind the 8 Ball on this.


Bill O'Really said the other night on a popular fake news TV show speaking of the elderly, "they are on their last leg anyway" with the implication of who cares. Well as one of those who is comparatively speaking on my last leg,,,,,,I CARE! and Ricky cares too! Mr. Loofah Sponge can go stuff it.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> We have ordered a bidet toilet seat but delivery has been delayed due to an overwhelming growth in online sales.
> Ricky's Popi


Ha!! The answer to Toilet Paper. Who would have Thought? OTOH ... apparently a lot of people.



Ricky Ricardo said:


> Bill O'Really said the other night on a popular fake news TV show speaking of the elderly, "they are on their last leg anyway" with the implication of who cares. Well as one of those who is comparatively speaking on my last leg,,,,,*,I CARE! and Ricky cares too! *Mr. Loofah Sponge can go stuff it.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Bill *O'Really* is on his last leg. *LOL!! Patti cares too!!! REALLY Cares.* Think how different the attitudes would be in America if we had a Chancellor Angela Merkel or a woman president. >



krandall said:


> I will most likely have to be wearing a mask in public, and be mostly home bound until a vaccine is available. Whether I want to or not.


Retired we're use to being Home Bound, but when someone told me to Stay Home - suddenly I felt like - I need to Leave. :grin2:

It was Super Weird when I first wore a mask in public and now it's not such a big deal, although I haven't done it very often. I feel protected, even though I'm protecting others. But ... a Mask DOES offer the wearer some protection, even if it's not 100%. I made a Mask with a pocket and can place a coffee filer or Hoover bag filter inside, for added protection.

Some guy at the fabric store told me one needs four layers for Self Protection. Yes! I've learned a fabric store is consider an Essential Business. Who knows if the guy knows what he's talking about but I Believe Him. :nerd:

For the first time in many years I planted a Herb and Tomato Container Garden now that we have a fenced the yard for Patti, and can keep out the deer who devours flowers and herbs. Included Sweet Mint and Lavender not knowing what I'd do with it. Fresh Lavender smells so good, I'll add a piece inside my Mask. DD tells me people are using essential oils on their Masks. :laugh2:

We usually leave hot, hot Oklahoma summers and go to the mountains but it's unlikely we'll go this year, therefore, I can maintain these lovely container plants.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> Ha!! The answer to Toilet Paper. Who would have Thought? OTOH ... apparently a lot of people.


We had our first experience with a bidet toilet seat at an overnight stay in an airport hotel in Narita, Japan about two years ago. Momi's first reaction was, "how the Havanese do I use this thing?" It was pretty intuitive with pictograms on the various buttons. I became concerned about Momi when she started running to the bathroom every ten minutes, "are you okay in there?" Her response, "Nevermind!" :fish: Getting a bidet toilet seat has been on her 'wish list' ever since. The TP hassle presented the perfect opportunity.

And @Mikki I love everything else in your post. Your positive attitude is an inspiration to me. Keep up the good work and keep posting with ideas!

Ricky's 'on his last leg' Popi


----------



## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Bill O'Really said the other night on a popular fake news TV show speaking of the elderly, "they are on their last leg anyway" with the implication of who cares. Well as one of those who is comparatively speaking on my last leg,,,,,,I CARE! and Ricky cares too! Mr. Loofah Sponge can go stuff it.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Fortunately, our governor cares too, and now that it has come to light, has made it a priority.


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## Mikki

This is from the Institute for Health Metrics. You can look up your state and see the number of COVID deaths and projection when your state can begin opening up.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america


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## krandall

Pretty funny looking at Georgia's projected date...


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## EvaE1izabeth

One of the things that’s sad to me is that I think a lot of things could open with precautions. The problem is, where are small business owners and independent contractors supposed to find hand sanitizer, masks, and disinfectant?


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> This is from the Institute for Health Metrics. You can look up your state and see the number of COVID deaths and projection when your state can begin opening up.
> 
> https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america





krandall said:


> Pretty funny looking at Georgia's projected date...


The IHME is a project of the Univ. of Washington. Here is a quote from the N,Y, Post:
"The University of Washington's daily death toll is predicted to peak April 15, then drop off sharply by June. The graph of coming deaths looks like a steep mountain we're about to ascend. That's with the shutdown continuing."
It is April 21 today and the death toll is still rising sharply. They have already missed their projections considerably. The IMHE is also projecting that under a best case scenario, there will be no more C-19 deaths starting today! :surprise:

IMHE says that the number of deaths in California will top out on April 27. We have already blown by the number by almost 50%. Are these guys smoking cannabis on a regular basis? I have little confidence in their projections. The Whitehouse is basing their "open the economy" strategy on these guy's "best case" scenario! Now when their 'best case" scenario is already discredited, the so-called president will have someone else to blame. The so-called president believes the buck stops on someone else's desk.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## Mikki

EvaE1izabeth said:


> One of the things that's sad to me is that I think a lot of things could open with precautions. The problem is, where are small business owners and independent contractors supposed to find hand sanitizer, masks, and disinfectant?


Hand Sanitizer is easy and cheap to make. They can buy Masks. Check Out Etsy. Or have someone make them. Disinfecting services or hands is simple alcohol. If you can't find alcohol but cheap 70 Proof Vodka put it in a Spray Bottle. There's plenty of that around :laugh2: Works on hands or disinfecting areas.


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## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> The IHME is a project of the Univ. of Washington. Here is a quote from the N,Y, Post:
> "The University of Washington's daily death toll is predicted to peak April 15, then drop off sharply by June. The graph of coming deaths looks like a steep mountain we're about to ascend. That's with the shutdown continuing."
> It is April 21 today and the death toll is still rising sharply. They have already missed their projections considerably. The IMHE is also projecting that under a best case scenario, there will be no more C-19 deaths starting today! :surprise:
> 
> IMHE says that the number of deaths in California will top out on April 27. We have already blown by the number by almost 50%. Are these guys smoking cannabis on a regular basis? I have little confidence in their projections. The Whitehouse is basing their "open the economy" strategy on these guy's "best case" scenario! Now when their 'best case" scenario is already discredited, the so-called president will have someone else to blame. The so-called president believes the buck stops on someone else's desk.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Update. Looked at the wrong day numbers. Oklahoma: COVID Cases 2,807 Total - Deaths: 164


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> If you can't find alcohol but cheap 70 Proof Vodka put it in a Spray Bottle. There's plenty of that around :laugh2: Works on hands or disinfecting areas.


There you go again! Please stop posting this incorrect information. 70 proof vodka is 35% alcohol and NOT denatured. For denatured alcohol to work as a sanitizer of any kind, it must be at least 60% denatured  alcohol. Don't believe me? Google it! The post on the Internet about using vodka was a joke and a lot of people believed it.

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> There you go again! Please stop posting this incorrect information. 70 proof vodka is 35% alcohol and NOT denatured. For denatured alcohol to work as a sanitizer of any kind, it must be at least 60% denatured  alcohol. Don't believe me? Google it! The post on the Internet about using vodka was a joke and a lot of people believed it.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Well...Dr Michael Greger said it works on his webinar. There are lots of different recipes out there. Some say to use Aloe Vera Gel. Dr. Gregory says not to. I used Aloe Vera Gel and regular alcohol and will wash my hands.

Dr Greger's webinar was on pandemics. Predictions say, toilet paper will disappear. What do you use instead? A Bidget unless there's a back order?? During pandemics Alcohol Hand Sanitizers will disappear? What do you use instead? 70 Proof Vodka is an option. Apparently, in pandemics people don't rush out and Hoard 70 Proof Vodka.

Mikki's Cupboard only has 100 Proof Vodka, so I guess I'd have to use that if I can't find anything else and I've run out of my not so good self-made hand sanitizer. :frown2: That would really be a SAD thing.


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## Heather's

Opening everything up to early is going to be terrible mistake. It was irresponsible in the very beginning to discourage wearing face masks only to change that decision. If only the protesters could experience what is actually happening inside the hospital for a few hours. My DH thought he made a great find yesterday and bought bottles of alcohol so I could make my hand sanitizer. It was 50%.🙁 Skylar does have hand sanitizer. 😊


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## Mikki

Heather's said:


> Opening everything up to early is going to be terrible mistake. It was irresponsible in the very beginning to discourage wearing face masks only to change that decision. If only the protesters could experience what is actually happening inside the hospital for a few hours. My DH thought he made a great find yesterday and bought bottles of alcohol so I could make my hand sanitizer. It was 50%.&#128577; Skylar does have hand sanitizer. &#128522;


CDC recommends the use of alcohol-based hand sanitizers with greater than 60% ethanol or 70% isopropanol as the preferred form of hand hygiene *in healthcare settings*, based upon greater access to hand sanitizer.

There is so many different opinions on this. Just when you think..._I've Got This!!!_. You read something that says alcohol loses it potency if you mix it. Then you read the alcohol potency INCREASES if mixed.

If 50% is what you have, make your hand sanitizer, use it but don't touch your face before washing your hands, if you out and about.

I, also, carry around hand wipes, they're better than nothing and if soap and water works, I don't know why hand wipes are somewhat helpful.

Agree, all this up an down and back and forth about Masks. CDC told people they didn't need them because healthcare providers didn't have enough. So, the reason wasn't because we don't need to wear them. :Cry:

I have a friend who posted they would probably be opening their restaurant up May 1!!! This is in Oklahoma. I've not seen the Open UP Step Program but assume she may know something I don't.

It'll be a long!!! time before we go to a restaurant or bar.

I have to assume the protestors are listening to programs like Fox Fake News who has Dr. Phil as their epidemiologist expert. Dr Phil the Pop Psy TV program actor. Then there are the Invincible's who thinks nothing will happen to them.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> Well...Dr Michael Greger said it works on his webinar. There are lots of different recipes out there. Some say to use Aloe Vera Gel. Dr. Gregory says not to. I used Aloe Vera Gel and regular alcohol and will wash my hands.
> 
> Dr Greger's webinar was on pandemics. Predictions say, toilet paper will disappear. What do you use instead? A Bidget unless there's a back order?? During pandemics Alcohol Hand Sanitizers will disappear? What do you use instead? 70 Proof Vodka is an option. Apparently, in pandemics people don't rush out and Hoard 70 Proof Vodka. Mikki's Cupboard only has 100 Proof Vodka, so I guess I'd have to use that if I can't find anything else and I've run out of my not so good self-made hand sanitizer. :frown2:


You're an intelligent woman. If that's what the so-called Doctor said, HE IS AN IDIOT! Vodka is not an effective sanitizer for C-19 virus. Even 100 proof vodka is only 50% alcohol and it is not denatured alcohol. That will work fine to produce a headache, but it will not work as a sanitizer. Chlorox straight out of the bottle makes a good sanitizer but should not be used on the skin. Plain old soap and water makes as good a sanitizer as the high priced stuff you purchase at the store!

What time does TGIF start!? I'll take a very dry martini with a generous amount of Sapphire and a splash of dry Vermouth, stirred not shaken, and three Kalamata olives!



Heather's said:


> Opening everything up to early is going to be terrible mistake. It was irresponsible in the very beginning to discourage wearing face masks only to change that decision.


True and True



> If only the protesters could experience what is actually happening inside the hospital for a few hours.


Here is the "Funny" thing ( funny being ironic, not humorous). It has just been reported that Kentucky is experiencing a big spike in C-19 infections among those very same protestors. This is a classic case of Darwinism at work. :brick:

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> It'll be a long!!! time before we go to a restaurant or bar.


In my opinion, that is a smart idea!



> I have to assume the protestors are listening to programs like Fox Fake News who has Dr. Phil as their epidemiologist expert. Dr Phil the Pop Psy TV program actor. Then there are the Invincible's who thinks nothing will happen to them.


I know a Doctor of Clinical Psychology VERY well. She says Dr. Phil is skating on very thin ice with regards to losing his professional license. What he said to the world was irresponsible, reprehensible, and more simply, BAD ADVICE.

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818

Here is this morning's headline:

*Missouri Becomes First State To Sue China For Lying, Not Doing Enough About COVID-19*

This is so ironic because Missouri should be suing the so-called president and the Whitehouse for lying and not doing enough about the C-19 virus!

Ricky's Popi


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## 31818

Health and Human Services Secretary appoints a former breeder (6 years) of Labradoodles to head the Covid-19 response team! That is his only experience, breeding dogs, other than being a very conservative, staunch, loyal Republican! :surprise: This train has derailed and is lying in a gully as a smoking wreck!

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> You're an intelligent woman. *If that's what the so-called Doctor said, HE IS AN IDIOT! * Vodka is not an effective sanitizer for C-19 virus. Even 100 proof vodka is only 50% alcohol and it is not denatured alcohol. That will work fine to produce a headache, but it will not work as a sanitizer. Chlorox straight out of the bottle makes a good sanitizer but should not be used on the skin. Plain old soap and water makes as good a sanitizer as the high priced stuff you purchase at the store!
> 
> What time does TGIF start!? I'll take a very dry martini with a generous amount of Sapphire and a splash of dry Vermouth, stirred not shaken, and three Kalamata olives!
> 
> Ricky's Popi


You're on another one of your tangents. Calm down. Take Ricky for a walk before posting. Stop name calling. Dr. Michael Gregor is a well respected physician in his field of study. As I said, in a previous post you're referring to, Dr Gregor gave a 4-hour Webinar about previous pandemics and predicted like others predicted this one. People paid to see this Webinar. He's updating information on COVID because hundreds of papers are being written about it.

One topic in the Webinar was - Hoarding- a problem during pandemics. A few of those things that people hoard and are difficult to find are toilet paper and hand sanitizers and antiseptic alcohol. If you have no access to hand sanitizers or antiseptic alcohol for DIY hand sanitizers, he said you can use Vodka _(Vodka is probably less odorless)_. He said, put it in a spray bottle and spray it on hands or surfaces. You don't mix it with anything to dilute it.

Of course, if you can find toilet paper and hand sanitizers or antiseptic alcohol those are preferred.


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Mikki said:


> One topic in the Webinar was - Hoarding- a problem during pandemics. A few of those things that people hoard and are difficult to find are toilet paper and hand sanitizers and antiseptic alcohol. If you have no access to hand sanitizers or antiseptic alcohol for DIY hand sanitizers, he said you can use Vodka _(Vodka is probably less odorless)_. He said, put it in a spray bottle and spray it on hands or surfaces. You don't mix it with anything to dilute it.
> 
> Of course, if you can find toilet paper and hand sanitizers or anise-chic alcohol those are preferred.


I didn't watch it, I'm just assuming the thinking is that for household purposes, and combined with sheltering in place so that exposure is extremely limited, if there is not any hand sanitizer available at all, this is better than nothing, and many people might have it already.

However, that kind of flexibility may be necessary at home during supply shortages, but it's not an acceptable risk for public places. For instance, this summer I'd be comfortable going to my hair stylist knowing we're both healthy and she's using commercially made sanitizer, people aren't in a waiting room, etc. But, she needs to be protected by a genuine n95 mask, too, and those aren't available because of the shortages to healthcare professionals. I don't think a homemade mask is adequate protection for people who are in direct contact with people, while it is a good safety measure for the average person social distancing and going to the store.

Flexibility in what we use WHILE STAYING HOME is necessary when we have supply shortages, it's part of why we stay home in the first place. But opening businesses requires people to have access to masks, thermometers, and sanitizers if we're facing this for months. I think it's sad because a lot of people would be able to make accommodations and work in a lot of fields but the supply shortages are a barrier. A hair stylist is a more extreme example because of direct contact so that may be later down the line, but it seems like a lot of small businesses and stores could open sooner rather than later with precautions in place if these supplies were readily available.


----------



## 31818

Mikki said:


> he said you can use Vodka _(Vodka is probably less odorless)_. He said, put it in a spray bottle and spray it on hands or surfaces. You don't mix it with anything to dilute it.


According to all health care professionals (other than Dr. Gregor) a sanitizer that is effective for Covid-19 must be a minimum 60% denatured alcohol. Vodka that is 120 proof might theoretically fit that definition, but I don't know of any that is manufactured. Use 70 proof vodka at your own risk, if you wish.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Ricky Ricardo said:


> According to all health care professionals (other than Dr. Gregor) a sanitizer that is effective for Covid-19 must be a minimum 60% denatured alcohol. Vodka that is 120 proof might theoretically fit that definition, but I don't know of any that is manufactured. Use 70 proof vodka at your own risk, if you wish.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I don't think anyone is suggesting that people should just use less effective products and just not worry about it. There is NO sanitizer, alcohol, or cleaning products other than toilet bowl cleaner, in my area at all, anywhere. I have one container of sanitizing wipes and it is like gold here. DD started to use one and I intervened and interrogated her so I could evaluate whether or not it justified a single sanitizing wipe  The best defense is staying home and washing hands. But in absence of sanitizers, for home use, a less concentrated alcohol is better than nothing at all. It may not kill the virus on all surfaces, but at least it reduces some risk by killing some of the virus. It would not be acceptable for public use at all. If a public place can't access proper supplies, it should be closed.

There are places that have shifted to producing sanitizer locally, but none of them supply the public. They go to healthcare and public service professionals, as they should. I hope the production issues resolve soon because I keep reading about "key factors" in opening the economy, but cleaning supplies aren't mentioned, and I think it's huge.

Maybe I'm just naive and more people have stockpiles of cleaners that I'm unaware of so they're not concerned about this!


----------



## Mikki

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I didn't watch it, I'm just assuming the thinking is that for household purposes, and combined with sheltering in place so that exposure is extremely limited, if there is not any hand sanitizer available at all, this is better than nothing, and many people might have it already.
> 
> However, that kind of flexibility may be necessary at home during supply shortages, but it's not an acceptable risk for public places. *For instance, this summer I'd be comfortable going to my hair stylist knowing we're both healthy and she's using commercially made sanitizer, people aren't in a waiting room, etc. But, she needs to be protected by a genuine n95 mask, too, and those aren't available because of the shortages to healthcare professionals.* *I don't think a homemade mask is adequate protection for people who are in direct contact with people, while it is a good safety measure for the average person social distancing and going to the store.*
> 
> Flexibility in what we use WHILE STAYING HOME is necessary when we have supply shortages, it's part of why we stay home in the first place. But opening businesses requires people to have access to masks, thermometers, and sanitizers if we're facing this for months. I think it's sad because a lot of people would be able to make accommodations and work in a lot of fields but the supply shortages are a barrier. A hair stylist is a more extreme example because of direct contact so that may be later down the line, but it seems like a lot of small businesses and stores could open sooner rather than later with precautions in place if these supplies were readily available.


My understanding is *Your Mask Protects Me* and *My Mask Protects You*. So, both people need to wear masks. My hairdresser is a One-Women Show with her own shop and no other hairdressers are there. She works by appointment and I've rarely even passed another client coming or living. The State and Local Mayor will require salons to clean after each client, limit clients and distancing. Not sure about thermometers, but I'd do that if I had a business for my own protection. I'm really paranoid but I'm *considering* going to my hairdresser, if she wears a Mask, as will I. My other consideration is to buy a Wig, let my hair grow and SEE WHAT DEVELOPS. :nerd:

Right now I doubt it's easy to obtain a *N95 Mask and those MUST BE TIGHTLY FITTED to a persons face to work*, according to my retired surgical husband. And, few people outside of the medical community are going to know how to wear them effectively. My point: I don't know that those are anymore effective than a homemade Mask.

It will be hard for employees, hairdressers to work in Masks all day, especially when they are not use to using them. Of course, they'll remove them when not working with a client.

Right now Walmart and most of the other Essential Food business are NOT providing or requiring employees to use Masks in my area. _GRRRRRR!! _THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. I had a friend refuse a take out food order from Olive Garden for that very reason.

I, too, think more small businesses can open. In our state, Pet Groomers were closed. :surprise:

Now I'm reading a study in China, which showed how a person who was infected with COVID, infected a lot of people in a restaurant sitting far away from the infected person. The person infected didn't know until later in the day when they started feeling bad. A week or more later a lot of people who had eaten there at the same time fell ill. It's speculated it was the AIR CONDITIONING that carried the aerosol droplets.

More to worry about. I ain't gonna to eating inside a restaurant for a long time.:crying: BUT....I might chance going to the Hairdresser. While some people look darling in baseball caps ... Sadly ... I'm not one of them.


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## 31818

EvaE1izabeth said:


> But in absence of sanitizers, for home use, a less concentrated alcohol is better than nothing at all. It may not kill the virus on all surfaces, but at least it reduces some risk by killing some of the virus.


No, according to scientists and health care professionals, alcohol at less than 60% does not kill any of the C-19 virus. Until the CDC recommends the use of vodka for sanitizing, I will not be using it in my home for that purpose. It is no better than nothing at all.

Momi uses Clorox (full strength) on all hard surfaces around the house as a sanitizer. We have a one gallon bottle and it will last us for several months at the rate we use it - it doesn't take much. We use soap and water around the house for hand sanitizer. When we go out, we use doggie poop bags on our hands. They are readily available.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Ricky Ricardo said:


> No, according to scientists and health care professionals, alcohol at less than 60% does not kill any of the C-19 virus. Until the CDC recommends the use of vodka for sanitizing, I will not be using it in my home for that purpose. It is no better than nothing at all.
> 
> Momi uses Clorox (full strength) on all hard surfaces around the house as a sanitizer. We have a one gallon bottle and it will last us for several months at the rate we use it - it doesn't take much. We use soap and water around the house for hand sanitizer. When we go out, we use doggie poop bags on our hands. They are readily available.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


I think it is important to clarify, and I should have been more clear, that I'm not specifically recommending anyone use sanitizers that aren't effective in killing the virus. I'm not doing a great job of expressing it, but my point is that what people use at home, and the choices and concessions they may be FORCED to make there due to supply shortages, are not the same as what we require in public places. And, it is frustrating that so much is still unavailable. Maybe things have changed in the last 5 days since I was at the store, but when I say nothing is available, I mean nothing. No bleach, no wipes, no sprays. Maybe in a different city they'd be available, but I have been home so I wouldn't know. It may be the placebo effect, but there is comfort in spraying SOMETHING on the counter in the middle of a pandemic.

DH did score a single box of tissues, though! Yay for allergy season!

I do get you're trying to avoid misinformation 

On that note, from what I understand, the CDC bases their recommendations on studies that had been published and those percentages have been PROVEN effective. That doesn't mean that other formulations, disinfectants, and percentages won't be effective, it means they haven't been studied yet. So, I'm not going to stop cleaning when I run out of disinfectant. Even sanitizers with the proper percentages of alcohol are based on the user rubbing their hands for 30 seconds.


----------



## krandall

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I didn't watch it, I'm just assuming the thinking is that for household purposes, and combined with sheltering in place so that exposure is extremely limited, if there is not any hand sanitizer available at all, this is better than nothing, and many people might have it already.
> 
> However, that kind of flexibility may be necessary at home during supply shortages, but it's not an acceptable risk for public places. For instance, this summer I'd be comfortable going to my hair stylist knowing we're both healthy and she's using commercially made sanitizer, people aren't in a waiting room, etc. But, she needs to be protected by a genuine n95 mask, too, and those aren't available because of the shortages to healthcare professionals. I don't think a homemade mask is adequate protection for people who are in direct contact with people, while it is a good safety measure for the average person social distancing and going to the store.
> 
> Flexibility in what we use WHILE STAYING HOME is necessary when we have supply shortages, it's part of why we stay home in the first place. But opening businesses requires people to have access to masks, thermometers, and sanitizers if we're facing this for months. I think it's sad because a lot of people would be able to make accommodations and work in a lot of fields but the supply shortages are a barrier. A hair stylist is a more extreme example because of direct contact so that may be later down the line, but it seems like a lot of small businesses and stores could open sooner rather than later with precautions in place if these supplies were readily available.


I think N95 masks for the general public are a LONG way off, but I was VERY surprised when a box of nitrile gloves that I had ordered in Jan (I use them often when working with plants because of my immune system problems, even before Covid) but had been on back order, not due to ship until June, arrived on my back porch. So they ARE catching up on things!

Because those arrived, for the heck of it, I searched surgical masks on Amazon, and you can get a box of 50 now for a reasonable price with only the standard current wait-time of about 10 days for what they consider "non-essentials". I didn't order them, because I'm really hardly ever going out, and I have a couple of cloth masks for when I need to. And when I had to go to the hospital yesterday (planned, nothing bad) they gave me one when they "health screened" me in the garage, before I even got out of my car. So I didn't even need my own.


----------



## krandall

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I don't think anyone is suggesting that people should just use less effective products and just not worry about it. There is NO sanitizer, alcohol, or cleaning products other than toilet bowl cleaner, in my area at all, anywhere. I have one container of sanitizing wipes and it is like gold here. DD started to use one and I intervened and interrogated her so I could evaluate whether or not it justified a single sanitizing wipe  The best defense is staying home and washing hands. But in absence of sanitizers, for home use, a less concentrated alcohol is better than nothing at all. It may not kill the virus on all surfaces, but at least it reduces some risk by killing some of the virus. It would not be acceptable for public use at all. If a public place can't access proper supplies, it should be closed.
> 
> There are places that have shifted to producing sanitizer locally, but none of them supply the public. They go to healthcare and public service professionals, as they should. I hope the production issues resolve soon because I keep reading about "key factors" in opening the economy, but cleaning supplies aren't mentioned, and I think it's huge.
> 
> Maybe I'm just naive and more people have stockpiles of cleaners that I'm unaware of so they're not concerned about this!


I have to say that we are far from running out in our household. We're certainly not squandering what we have, but we didn't buy ANY "new" supplies when this started. But we ALWAYS have a full bottle of hand sanitizer in each car at the beginning of flu season, plus a refill in the house, and a little one in my purse, we don't use wipes much, but we always have a gallon on bleach in the basement, plus the one we are currently using, so plenty of that. We WOULD have been caught out on alcohol, because it turns out that what we have in our cupboards is "rubbing alcohol" which, it turns out, is only 50% I think? But my DIL is a nail tech, and SHE had several large bottles of 95% alcohol that she uses for... Something? Not sure. I don't get my nails done, but I guess it's commonly used in SOME process they do! LOL! We've used VERY little of the alcohol, but we have it if we need it. And this is all without purchasing anything specifically for the pandemic situation. I thought these were just house-hold staples.

Doesn't EVERYONE use bleach?


----------



## mudpuppymama

A dear friend of mine went to the hospital for a chemo treatment and nephrostomy tube exchange due to a urinary tract infection. She had a slight fever and instead of treating her they gave her a coronavirus test and sent her home!!! She had to wait 10 days for the results of the test which were negative. Only then would they treat her. However, during that 10 day wait she got much worse. Finally they are treating her but that wait really took its toll on her. I am wondering how many other poor people needing critical health services have been denied due to the coronavirus paranoia. I think this is just horrible.


----------



## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> No, according to scientists and health care professionals, alcohol at less than 60% does not kill any of the C-19 virus. Until the CDC recommends the use of vodka for sanitizing, I will not be using it in my home for that purpose. It is no better than nothing at all.
> 
> Momi uses Clorox (full strength) on all hard surfaces around the house as a sanitizer. We have a one gallon bottle and it will last us for several months at the rate we use it - it doesn't take much. We use soap and water around the house for hand sanitizer. When we go out, we use doggie poop bags on our hands. They are readily available.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Bleach does not need to be used full strength to be an effective disinfectant (per CDC 1/3c in 1 gallon of water is all you need). It DOES have to be used within one year, however. You can't keep it indefinitely. So if you don't use it relatively frequently, buy a smaller bottle. This article has a handy table for the amount you need to add to smaller amounts of water since you do need to mix it fresh every time you use it (just about):

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/covid-19-disinfecting-with-bleach

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cleaning-disinfection.html


----------



## 31818

krandall said:


> Bleach does not need to be used full strength to be an effective disinfectant (per CDC 1/3c in 1 gallon of water is all you need). It DOES have to be used within one year, however. You can't keep it indefinitely. So if you don't use it relatively frequently, buy a smaller bottle. This article has a handy table for the amount you need to add to smaller amounts of water since you do need to mix it fresh every time you use it (just about)


I queried Momi further about her use of Clorox bleach. She said I have it all wrong. :brick: She said she rarely uses Clorox out of the bottle and NEVER uses it full strength. She said she uses Clorox brand wipes in the kitchen and bathroom to sanitize surfaces and has been doing that for years. For example, if she gets any blood from meat on our granite countertops, she wipes it up immediately with a Clorox wipe. She found a deal at Costco last December (before there was a hint of C-19 in the US) and purchased a case that were on sale. There's something liked 8 canisters in a case and she still has a good supply left.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> I queried Momi further about her use of Clorox bleach. She said I have it all wrong. :brick: She said she rarely uses Clorox out of the bottle and NEVER uses it full strength. She said she uses Clorox brand wipes in the kitchen and bathroom to sanitize surfaces and has been doing that for years. For example, if she gets any blood from meat on our granite countertops, she wipes it up immediately with a Clorox wipe. She found a deal at Costco last December (before there was a hint of C-19 in the US) and purchased a case that were on sale. There's something liked 8 canisters in a case and she still has a good supply left.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Shoulda figured someone else was in charge of the major cleaning in the family. :bolt:


----------



## 31818

krandall said:


> Shoulda figured someone else was in charge of the major cleaning in the family. :bolt:


Yes, that is true. I told her that if I was going to clean the countertops, I was going to use the belt sander to do it. It cleans everything off! Vacuum the rugs? ShopVac. Dusting? Leaf blower. Make the bed? Weed wacker. Wash the windows? Automotive foam canon. Ricky needs a haircut? Hedge trimmer. She sid, "Nevermind, I'll do the cleaning." 0

Ricky's Popi


----------



## krandall

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Yes, that is true. I told her that if I was going to clean the countertops, I was going to use the belt sander to do it. It cleans everything off! Vacuum the rugs? ShopVac. Dusting? Leaf blower. Make the bed? Weed wacker. Wash the windows? Automotive foam canon. Ricky needs a haircut? Hedge trimmer. She sid, "Nevermind, I'll do the cleaning." 0
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Sounds like my house. You "boys" certainly know how to get out of work! Hurrrumph!


----------



## 31818

krandall said:


> Sounds like my house. You "boys" certainly know how to get out of work! Hurrrumph!


>

Ricky's Popi


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## EvaE1izabeth

krandall said:


> I have to say that we are far from running out in our household. We're certainly not squandering what we have, but we didn't buy ANY "new" supplies when this started. But we ALWAYS have a full bottle of hand sanitizer in each car at the beginning of flu season, plus a refill in the house, and a little one in my purse, we don't use wipes much, but we always have a gallon on bleach in the basement, plus the one we are currently using, so plenty of that. We WOULD have been caught out on alcohol, because it turns out that what we have in our cupboards is "rubbing alcohol" which, it turns out, is only 50% I think? But my DIL is a nail tech, and SHE had several large bottles of 95% alcohol that she uses for... Something? Not sure. I don't get my nails done, but I guess it's commonly used in SOME process they do! LOL! We've used VERY little of the alcohol, but we have it if we need it. And this is all without purchasing anything specifically for the pandemic situation. I thought these were just house-hold staples.
> 
> Doesn't EVERYONE use bleach?


I thought we were pretty well stocked. We are going through household staples MUCH faster with everyone home. I tried to make sure we had enough for a month, but that's what I always have on hand for basic cleaning supplies. I did find a bottle of Method spray in the basement and one in the garage, but I never would have thought I'd need more than the one full bottle under my sink. It was just luck that I forgot to put them away at some point and bought more.

During the school year my kids eat fast, simple breakfasts (they aren't morning people), and they eat lunch at school. We also typically eat out or get takeout a few times a week. Usually the kitchen is cleaned at night. 2 teenagers and 2 adults in and out of the kitchen all day means at least wiping down the counters and loading the dishwasher after breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We went through 18! water glasses yesterday. We need some kind of glass markers! Someone sets their glass down, doesn't remember which one, and grabs another. I should confess, this isn't even 4 people. DH is camped out in the office so he doesn't have this problem. That's like 6 glasses per day per person.

I usually stock up on the hand soap I like when it goes on sale, so I had about 6 months' supply. We've gone through about 3 months' worth in one month, which means I have about a month supply left. Fortunately soap isn't in short supply at this point, and at least it's being used.

Sanitizer is another story, though. I usually buy lots of small bottles, and leave them in different places around the house and car. They are starting to run low. Again, it's what I normally consider a 3-6month supply, if not more. I started reserving them for when we leave the house. I'm pretty sure I could track down a few in DD's room, and misplaced around the house. I do have two big pumps I bought ages ago but DS didn't use them because the brand dried out his skin really bad. I felt guilty about throwing them out, and now I'm glad I didn't. The rest of us might be able to tolerate it, and if not, I can use it for other things.

We are running low on rubbing alcohol, which we use frequently for medical purposes. However, I can still get it through our medical supply company, I just usually buy it myself. I haven't heard if those orders are delayed, though.

The Clorox/disinfecting wipes is the one that bothers me a bit. I'm conserving what we have. I do have one bottle of bleach, but it is splash-less so I'm not sure how well it will dilute. I'm sure it would be fine in a pinch, but I'm not at all confident the carpet and the rest of the house wouldn't be destroyed by the rest of my family trying to use bleach to clean. I asked a friend about this yesterday and she told me they are still getting small shipments sanitizing of wipes at our neighborhood store, but they're gone within half an hour. I assume it's the same at other stores. She said the wipes are in store only, no curbside pickup, and they don't list their inventory online. I don't think people are buying a lot at once, she said someone sees they have the wipes and texts people who need them, and everyone already in the store will grab one. They also have to up keep their own inventory to protect their workers.

I've never used a ton of disinfecting wipes. I use a typical all purpose cleaner for general cleaning and I use disinfecting wipes for things like doorknobs and germy kid messes, and to wipe down the guest bathroom vanity between cleanings. Most of our doctor's appointments have resumed (everything but the orthodontist) and I feel better having them in the car. We are cleaning our phones more often, etc. The container I have is huge, so it should last a while as long as we aren't using them like paper towels or a dish towel, but hopefully they'll become more available soon.


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Vacuum the rugs? ShopVac.


DH and I have had REAL fights about this before. No joke. I'll censor it for you

DH:
A vacuum is a vacuum 
At least I'm vacuuming
It's fine

Me: 
It's insanely loud 
Is there a filter in it right now? 
It's covered in dust, it's making a bigger mess than it's cleaning 
It's two steps more to get the indoor vacuum out of the cabinet
I can't watch this


----------



## Heather's

Mikki said:


> Right now I doubt it's easy to obtain a *N95 Mask and those MUST BE TIGHTLY FITTED to a persons face to work*, according to my retired surgical husband. And, few people outside of the medical community are going to know how to wear them effectively. My point: I don't know that those are anymore effective than a homemade Mask.
> 
> Now I'm reading a study in China, which showed how a person who was infected with COVID, infected a lot of people in a restaurant sitting far away from the infected person. The person infected didn't know until later in the day when they started feeling bad. A week or more later a lot of people who had eaten there at the same time fell ill. It's speculated it was the AIR CONDITIONING that carried the aerosol droplets.
> 
> More to worry about. I ain't gonna to eating inside a restaurant for a long time.:crying: BUT....I might chance going to the Hairdresser. While some people look darling in baseball caps ... Sadly ... I'm not one of them.


The N95 does need to be fitted properly. We were fitted yearly to make sure it was effective. Several of us had to use a PAPR because the N95 did not fit properly. I've been using my DH N95 mask which I know is much too large. I'm waiting for the two masks I have ordered. Any face covering has got to be better than nothing.

Mikki...The China study is very interesting. When the SIP order first began my DH suggested I shop at a large store that had wide aisles and self check-out to avoid people. My first time out shopping I thought I'd give it a try. This was before the masks were first suggested. As I was walking the aisles all of a sudden I noticed the wind of the AC. All I could think of was the virus blowing around. &#128563; I couldn't get out of there fast enough and wil not go back. DH thought I was being very silly.

I really do miss going to restaurants for lunch or dinner with my friends. Even after the ban is lifted I doubt we will be going to restaurants for quite some time. There are many restaurants in our town, but only a few are offering take-out. I feel it is important to support them during this difficult time. Gov.Newsom mentioned going out to eat will probably be different once the ban is lifted...servers with masks and paper menus.

Missing my hairdresser too Mikki. &#128553;


----------



## Wulfin

Well, my city just extended the ban on public events for more than 15 people until August 31st.
The Calgary Stampede was just cancelled, which brings $500 million into our local economy each July. Top this off with the Oil and Gas sector tanking which is our city's main industry. Things are not doing well.

I really hope school opens back up for the new year in September, but I'm needing to start the mindset that it may not be. Crisis-schooling/parenting has been the hardest thing we have done throughout this as we are still working fulltime hours from home. On the other hand, we are grateful to be working and have jobs that will continue to pay the bills and allow us to eat. Today, my 6yo has decided to just yell and scream at everything and everyone. She is not doing okay. And it sucks, because we can't give her what she needs right now (some of which is time away from us, quite frankly). 

I'm so on the fence about the masks. I understand why they are useful. But I'm very rarely in situations where I would need one. Basically, here they said if you are able to maintain a distance of 6ft, then masks are unnecessary, but if you are unable to maintain that, then to have one. The only time we leave our house is to go grocery shopping and everyone here is very respectful about the distancing. They have plexiglass between you and the cashiers, etc. So I don't find myself in situations where I feel one is necessary. However the AC thought is interesting - luckily our summers aren't hot enough to usually have AC going. LOL. Part of me wants to buy one as a keepsake of this crazy time though.


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## EvaE1izabeth

The masks really bother me, to be honest. I think they have the POTENTIAL to be helpful, but how they work and when and why they are beneficial is a huge source of confusion. Makeshift masks are useful and have their place, but they absolutely do NOT replace an N95 mask in situations that don’t allow for social distancing. I do appreciate that they remind me not to touch my face. Mostly. My face itches INSANELY when I’m wearing a mask. I can barely stand it. 

I also understand the fit issue of the masks from experience. I have a very small face and it’s been a problem for me for years. I wear children’s glasses, it’s super stylish (meaning I wear contacts pretty exclusively). I have purchased the smallest safety glasses and particulate masks I could find for years, but I have never been able to get close to a “seal/.” It’s still better than sanding/painting/cutting without anything, but I didn’t know it was possible to get “fitted” for a mask. It’s good to know that’s possible at some point.


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## Heather's

EvaE1izabeth said:


> \ It's still better than sanding/painting/cutting without anything, but I didn't know it was possible to get "fitted" for a mask. It's good to know that's possible at some point.


In the hospital healthcare workers need to be fitted because of the possibility of being exposed to infectious diseases. They actually spray you with a solution to determine if you can taste it. The only time we used the N95 was if a patient had TB or it was being ruled out.


----------



## krandall

EvaE1izabeth said:


> DH and I have had REAL fights about this before. No joke. I'll censor it for you
> 
> DH:
> A vacuum is a vacuum
> At least I'm vacuuming
> It's fine
> 
> Me:
> It's insanely loud
> Is there a filter in it right now?
> It's covered in dust, it's making a bigger mess than it's cleaning
> It's two steps more to get the indoor vacuum out of the cabinet
> I can't watch this


LOL! Shop vac is NOT allowed in the living area of my house!!!


----------



## krandall

EvaE1izabeth said:


> The masks really bother me, to be honest. I think they have the POTENTIAL to be helpful, but how they work and when and why they are beneficial is a huge source of confusion. Makeshift masks are useful and have their place, but they absolutely do NOT replace an N95 mask in situations that don't allow for social distancing. I do appreciate that they remind me not to touch my face. Mostly. My face itches INSANELY when I'm wearing a mask. I can barely stand it.
> 
> I also understand the fit issue of the masks from experience. I have a very small face and it's been a problem for me for years. I wear children's glasses, it's super stylish (meaning I wear contacts pretty exclusively). I have purchased the smallest safety glasses and particulate masks I could find for years, but I have never been able to get close to a "seal/." It's still better than sanding/painting/cutting without anything, but I didn't know it was possible to get "fitted" for a mask. It's good to know that's possible at some point.


I have ONE cloth mask that I've used very little, because I've been out almost not at all. I did have to pick up some meat at a CSA recently, and wore the mask for the handoff, as did the other person. I also wore my mask taking my 91 YO stepmom for a walk. Even in our VERY cool, early spring weather, that cloth mask was hot and uncomfortable to breathe through, and fogged up my glasses, though I'm sure it did its job protecting others.

Then I had an interesting experience the other day when I had to go to the hospital for my infusion. I was "health screened" and given a paper surgical mask in the parking garage, which I had to wear the entire time I was in the hospital. It was a LOT warmer inside the hospital than it had been outdoors the times I'd worm the cloth mask, but it was MUCH more comfortable to breathe through, And because of the little metal nose piece, it didn't fog my glasses at all. So, I think I'm going to keep my eye on Amazon, and as these things start to become more available, (I just received an order of nitrile gloves I ordered in Dec., but were supposed to be back-ordered until June) I may try to get some of these. Not N95 style masks, but the disposable surgical style masks, just so that I have something to wear when it is hot out that is easier to breathe through than several layers of cloth. (and I'll save the ones I get at the hospital too)


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Heather's said:


> In the hospital healthcare workers need to be fitted because of the possibility of being exposed to infectious diseases. They actually spray you with a solution to determine if you can taste it. The only time we used the N95 was if a patient had TB or it was being ruled out.


I was quite complacent about safety because most of what I do is art and hobby related, and I never wore masks. 
About 5 years ago I had an incident where I inhaled particulates and I had a terrible reaction. I had to take steroids and do breathing treatments for weeks, and I still feel the consequences when I'm sick. Interestingly, N95 masks are actually not adequate for the materials I work with, but I couldn't find a respirator mask with a seal that fit my face at the time. I started using 3M n95 masks since they were widely available! I didn't know that's what they were until this recent shortage, when my husband said, "ooh, that's an n95 mask you have there!" It's my last one.

I hate it. It actually works better upside down, but either way it doesn't even lay against my face without blocking my eyes, let alone seal in any way. In fact, I hate them so much I threw away the last package I bought, supposedly "more adjustable fit," less than 6 months ago. Now I wish I had kept them to give to someone else!

For going in public, we each have face coverings, but I don't feel like we have an effective system for them. We need a way to put them in something when we get to the car, and we need more than one so we can separate clean and dirty. It's really hard for DS to get his off without rubbing it all over his hands, face, and the car (he has some dexterity issues).


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## mudpuppymama

Our car insurance company (American Family) is sending us each a $50 check for “not driving as much”. What they do not know is that we are putting more miles than ever on our car because we are building a house on our rural property. My neighbor said her insurance is giving her a 25 percent cut on their bill. These are nice gestures...never thought I’d see mercy from an insurance company...


----------



## 31818

Ricky Ricardo said:


> The IHME is a project of the Univ. of Washington. Here is a quote from the N,Y, Post:
> "The University of Washington's daily death toll is predicted to peak April 15, then drop off sharply by June. The graph of coming deaths looks like a steep mountain we're about to ascend. That's with the shutdown continuing."
> It is April 21 today and the death toll is still rising sharply. They have already missed their projections considerably. The IMHE is also projecting that under a best case scenario, there will be no more C-19 deaths starting today! :surprise:
> 
> IMHE says that the number of deaths in California will top out on April 27. We have already blown by the number by almost 50%. Are these guys smoking cannabis on a regular basis? I have little confidence in their projections. The Whitehouse is basing their "open the economy" strategy on these guy's "best case" scenario! Now when their 'best case" scenario is already discredited, the so-called president will have someone else to blame. The so-called president believes the buck stops on someone else's desk


This just out in today's news, the IMHE project at the Univ. of Washington has been totally discredited as being way too optimistic. Their modeling has proven to be way off. The IMHE modeling was being used by not only the Whitehouse for "reopening the economy" but also by Doctors Fauci and Birx.
"The IHME model is an odd duck in the pool of mathematical models," said Gregg Gonsalves, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Medicine. "I fear the White House is looking for data that tells them a story they want to hear, and so they look to the model with the lowest projection of death."
Time for some changes at the Whitehouse!

This so-called president is doing his best to get a lot of us killed so he can get re-elected with a robust economy platform. I refuse to be one of his pawns! I would rather be alive than feeling rich.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## davetgabby

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/489102-going-viral-politicizing-this-pandemic-gets-us-nowhere


----------



## Mikki

davetgabby said:


> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/489102-going-viral-politicizing-this-pandemic-gets-us-nowhere


 @davetgabby .... *This is the Best Headline Yet! 
*
*Injections of Bleach?

Beams of Light?

Trump Is Self-Destructing Before Our Eyes*

:brick:*Trump and is staff are now trying to claim these comments were Sarcastic*. :brick:

If anyone else had said this to a friend or spouse, they would be looking at finding a psychiatric hospital. tRUMP is definitely mentally ill and it's looking more and more like he's in the throes of Alzheimers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

Ricky Ricardo said:


> This just out in today's news, the IMHE project at the Univ. of Washington has been totally discredited as being way too optimistic. Their modeling has proven to be way off. The IMHE modeling was being used by not only the Whitehouse for "reopening the economy" but also by Doctors Fauci and Birx.
> "The IHME model is an odd duck in the pool of mathematical models," said Gregg Gonsalves, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Medicine. "I fear the White House is looking for data that tells them a story they want to hear, and so they look to the model with the lowest projection of death."
> Time for some changes at the Whitehouse!
> 
> This so-called president is doing his best to get a lot of us killed so he can get re-elected with a robust economy platform. I refuse to be one of his pawns! I would rather be alive than feeling rich.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


The news in my area has said "new projections" so many times I don't even read those articles.

They are all predictions. It would be interesting for the hundreds of projections to be compiled along with the different controls and factors they included to compare side by side. I'm sure in reality what we see happen will be a combination of many, and people may see different things in different communities. I wonder how many of the projections take into account all of the different ways local governments have managed the crisis in their own states and cities. Human behavior is complicated.

I'm going to plan for the worst and hope for the best. I hope I'm making my decisions based on science, but it's easy to forget there is still so much we don't know.


----------



## Mikki

One can get an idea of what the virus is doing from looking at other countries who have been dealing with COVID longer than the United States. A lot of the European Countries have Safety Nets for their citizens, that the United States doesn't such as Health Care and government help when out of a job. When they Locked Down the country, people kept receiving a percentage of their pay checks, which kept the country running, along with no worry about going to the doctor and being treated if sick. And, when businesses open back up those employees will go back to work. 

In American, Congress gave business loans that included employees salaries, that don't have to be paid back if they pay their employees. But! companies have complained and don't want to pay their employees, because they are not working and want to use the money for other expenses. :crying:

The European newspapers have been SHOCKED at the long lines of cars (miles long) of Americans waiting to collect a week or two of food. What's going to happen when American's start getting bills for treatment at hospitals for COVID. Oh! a COVID test is paid for by the government ... if you can get one. 

In some states people don't have to pay their rent for several months and can't be evicted... but what's going to happen when those months are up. There will be evictions ... how can they pay back rent after being out of work for months?

OTOH...how can landlords pay their bills? It's a vicious cycle. America isn't so Great anymore. All those European countries are older than the US. Maybe they learned something along the way that we might figure out in the future. Sooner would be better than Later.


----------



## 31818

EvaE1izabeth said:


> The news in my area has said "new projections" so many times I don't even read those articles.


Yes, the reason for so many "new projections" is because the science and medical professions have no idea what we are dealing with. At this time we are flying blind.



> I wonder how many of the projections take into account all of the different ways local governments have managed the crisis in their own states and cities.


Only in terms of anecdotal reports. The only information that is consistent is that masks, social distancing, and stay at home does limit the advance of C-19.



> I'm going to plan for the worst and hope for the best. I hope I'm making my decisions based on science, but it's easy to forget there is still so much we don't know.


I am expecting the best by planning for the worst. My decisions are also based on science but I realize that sometimes scientists get it wrong too. I never base my decisions on political agenda because they seem to get everything wrong all the time!

Ricky's Popi


----------



## 31818

Mikki said:


> This is the Best Headline Yet!
> [/B]
> *Injections of Bleach?
> 
> Beams of Light?
> 
> Trump Is Self-Destructing Before Our Eyes*


I have a little different take on this. In my opinion the so-called president is throwing nonsense against the wall to see what will stick. He is desperately trying to keep his poll numbers up because if he is not elected to a second term it will damage his fragile ego and who knows what he will do between November 6, 2020 and January 20, 2021. Some pundits have speculated that he might declare a national emergency and delay the November 2020 national election.............indefinitely!!!!!!

The scary part is that his 40% loyal base is willing to let him get away with his cockamamy quack cures, lies and all.

In my opinion, the so-called president suffers from severe mental illness, just as some of the other world leaders before him did in world history. But in the case of the so-called president, he has "sane" advisors who are encouraging him to further their own personal political agenda at the so-called president's expense............I'm looking at you Mitch McConnell (as well as many other). This is a real test of the resolve and resiliency of the American culture. Will we learn from our electoral mistakes and go on to a better and brighter future, or we will degenerate and collapse like other great cultures? (Greek, Egyptian, Roman, Incan, Chinese, etc.) It is ours to win or lose.

Ricky's Popi


----------



## 31818

This, just released from the CDC.

*The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has added six new symptoms to its list of possible signs of the coronavirus. Previously, the CDC only noted fever, cough and shortness of breath as symptoms.

The agency has updated its list to include: chills, repeated shaking with chills, muscle pain, headache, sore throat and new loss of taste or smell. Shortness of breath has also been changed to "shortness of breath or difficulty breathing." The full list now is:

FeverCoughShortness of breath or difficulty breathingChillsRepeated shaking with chillsMuscle painHeadacheSore throatNew loss of taste or smell

A runny nose rarely occurs with COVID-19, and sneezing is still not a symptom of the virus.*

Be careful out there!

Ricky's Popi


----------



## Mikki

*NYT ... COVID-19 AND CROWDED CONDITIONS
*

The store line is this:

The virus not only passes to more people who live in crowded conditions or attend large groups events, but die more often than people exposed to the virus in less populated areas. BECAUSE...in crowded places people are exposed over and over to the virus, making it more lethal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/...te=1&user_id=996b4430830a9e0af4ea29bb068e3512


----------



## Heather's

The only information I trust on COVID-19 is from Zubin Damania (ZDogg MD) Stanford trained physician from the Bay Area. His videos cover current topics which he makes interesting and fun to watch. I have followed him for several years. His videos are on YouTube. If you have some extra time I recommend the video "Why COVID-19 is Different with Dr. Scott Weingart." &#128522;


----------



## EvaE1izabeth

I actually just read a really interesting article that referenced some examples of how unpredictably the virus spreads. It’s a local article, and I don’t think I’ll link it, because the intended context of the article isn’t actually what’s interesting to me. It referenced instances of contraction and contact tracing that are unusual that I hadn’t heard about, and it was a reminder that there’s still a lot we don’t know about the virus because information is still slowly emerging. 

One basic example of this is that the transmission between household members is often quite low. I think I assumed it was high because of the transmission rate in care facilities. The danger is in cases where there is high transmission, everyone in a family becomes sick, and it is often serious and leads to multiple fatalities in one family. People can manipulate this data to say the transmission rate is low, without context regarding the clusters of higher contraction rates and the seriousness of the disease, which is a lot of what I see people doing on Facebook, etc. On the other end of the spectrum, I just read about a case where something like 70 people were in a semi enclosed space for less than an hour and 25 contracted the virus, and they determined that the air conditioning was unlikely to be a factor (in that instance). The contraction rate was unusually high, and it was also all over the room - several people next to the infected carrier didn’t contract the virus, and several people beyond 6 feet did. The varying factors involved may take years to identify and understand. 

Then there is the issue of super spreaders! This isn’t new information, especially about the asymptomatic spreaders. But I hadn’t understood what that means in context, which is that it’s not strictly that one person doesn’t wash their hands or social distance appropriately. I didn’t realize one super-spreader can pass the virus to 10-20 people rather than a couple, but there is no way yet to identify the pathology of the super spreader. Is that different from “super spreaders” of other diseases, or are we now getting more advanced lessons in these things? I’ve heard children referred to as super spreaders with regard to the flu for a while, but I never thought of it that way. I just assumed it had more to do with kid hygiene, and their age and susceptibility. 

I’m starting to see why it’s so easy for misrepresented and outright false information to spread, because people can exploit these varied numbers to suit their arguments. Often it’s intentional, but a lot of the time I think it’s just human beings, upset and stressed out, seeing what they want to see. The unknown nature of the disease makes it even more dangerous. 

Maybe these are things that everyone else understood a long time ago, and I’m just slow.


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## 31818

EvaE you are not slow, this is new information to me and I try to stay on top of these things.......since I have nothing better to do! Thanks for the info, very interesting and thought provoking.

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

@Ricky Ricardo ... Your governor is paying restaurants to provide senior citizens three meals a day. What a Great Governor you have.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> @Ricky Ricardo ... Your governor is paying restaurants to provide senior citizens three meals a day. What a Great Governor you have.


Yes, our Governor gets high approval ratings from across the political spectrum. He is a liberal progressive Democrat. Even the so-called president seems to like him. I wonder if it is because Gov. Newsom's buxom ex-wife is dating the so-called president's junior? :wink2:

But I think any accolades should go to the Californican tax payer (27% of California population was born in another country). We tax payers have the highest tax rate - including State income tax, State property tax, and State sales tax - of any State in the U.S. We are a sociaistic State modeled after many European countries to fund social welfare programs. And we do this willingly, frequently by voting in favor of increasing our tax rate to fund social, educational, and public works projects. All this largesse is balanced by very high minimum wage rate, comparatively high salaries, high property values, almost limitless fresh fruits and vegetables, and fabulous weather. California has the 5th largest economy in the WORLD, even surpassing England which has slipped down the prosperity ranking since passing the conservative BREXIT initiative. We are truly a "Nation State" with the third largest landmass in the U.S. (behind Alaska and Texas) and the largest population base representing approx. 10% of the total U.S. population. Gov. Newsom initiated the "Western Alliance" (which now includes California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, and Colorado, all Democratic States representing 25% of total U.S. population) to formulate a cooperative strategy to prevent the spread of C-19 virus rather than rely on a lack of leadership from the Whitehouse. Look for Gov. Newsom to be a strong contender for the office of POTUS in the 2024 election.

Is everything perfect here?, absolutely not. Can we do better? Yes! We have a poor public transportation system, poor air quality in some locations, and public education needs improvement. But at least there are some needy senior citizens who will be getting three square meals a day, but not all of us, you have to qualify first. But Momi, Popi, and Ricky are relatively happy living here and we will probably live out our lives here.

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

I purchased this book after seeing the author* Laurie Garrett on a CNN interview* last night. This lady won an arms list of awards for this book. It was written in 1995 but the information applies to what's going on now. Apparently, Germs are all pretty much a like.

I suppose it's best to be armed with facts, instead of pretending things are going to go back to what use to be normal. According to Garrett NOTHING will go back to the before and even this germ ... COVID...has surprised her.

I'm more worried about the economy than this awful virus. It's something the world just has to learn to live with. Hoping not forever.

Here's her interview on CNN
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics...nn/video/playlists/cnn-coronavirus-town-hall/

*WHAT PEOPLE SAID ABOUT THE BOOK..*
5.0 out of 5 stars
* This is a vastly important book in this era of the Coronavirus!*
Reviewed in the United States on April 14, 2020
Verified Purchase

The author doesn't generalize, but names names, places and dates this book happens in. Quite frankly, I don't know how she did it, as there is so much info to read and understand! Learning about plagues, bought to mind what we are going through now in the Coronavirus now in 2020, and it scares the hell out of me!
*************************************
The Coming Plague, written in 1995, is perhaps more timely than ever. It is a long book, but each chapter is a different outbreak the CDC handled or mishandled over the decades. since each chapter is a different outbreak, you can read them independently. So dont be overwhelmed bc its 800 pages. just means there's a lot of great shorter stories to choose from.
*********************************
CDC handled some of these very well, even heroically. Some... not so much. Some in the latter category covered here are AIDS, toxic shock syndrome and legionnaires. Very well written. I learned so much from this book. By Laurie Garrett who won the Pulitzer Prize for her reporting on Ebola, which is in the book.

She basically predicted how the Ebola outbreak of 2014 would turn into a disaster, and it was written back in 1995. Just an incredibly awesome book. One of my all-time favorites.

Considering when this was written ... It's like the author had a crystal ball. This isn't light reading but really is a must. Head's up: you'll likely become very conscious about germs before you finish the first chapter, but in a good way.
--


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## EvaE1izabeth

It’s hard to know what the future will bring, especially considering 6 months from now, a year from now, and how we will look back on this in 3 years. One of the studies I read about just a couple of weeks ago was retracted a few days ago. There is just so much to learn and unfortunately, reliable science is slow. 

In the meantime, at least I scored some hand sanitizer the other day! It looks like many places are now selling to the public.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> I'm more worried about the economy than this awful virus.
> --


As long as this virus is among us, there will be no vibrant economy. I saw a feature on a shopping mall in Ohio the other night on TV. They were allowed to reopen. There were something like two dozen people who visited the mall the whole day. If you don't follow CDC instructions, you are taking your life it your hands. It would be like driving down the freeway at 70 mph with a blindfold on, not a good idea.

The Great Depression of the '30's lasted about 10 years with over 20% unemployment. The economy today is not nearly in as bad shape with around 15% unemployment. This is only for two MONTHS. I expect C-19 will be at pandemic level for about 12 to 18 months. Our economy should be resilient enough to survive. If not, it was an economy based on a house of cards and a corrupt system and should collapse to be replaced by something more enduring (as it was in the '30's with the robust economy of the '50's). BTW, tax rates in the '50's under Eisenhower were much higher than they are today.

The answer to restoring the economy is widespread and frequent testing and development of a vaccine. I am not going to feel safe until those things happen despite what the so-called president says.

Ricky's Popi


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## Mikki

Ricky Ricardo said:


> As long as this virus is among us, there will be no vibrant economy. I saw a feature on a shopping mall in Ohio the other night on TV. They were allowed to reopen. There were something like two dozen people who visited the mall the whole day. If you don't follow CDC instructions, you are taking your life it your hands. It would be like driving down the freeway at 70 mph with a blindfold on, not a good idea.
> 
> The Great Depression of the '30's lasted about 10 years with over 20% unemployment. The economy today is not nearly in as bad shape with around 15% unemployment. This is only for two MONTHS. I expect C-19 will be at pandemic level for about 12 to 18 months. Our economy should be resilient enough to survive. If not, it was an economy based on a house of cards and a corrupt system and should collapse to be replaced by something more enduring (as it was in the '30's with the robust economy of the '50's). BTW, tax rates in the '50's under Eisenhower were much higher than they are today.
> 
> The answer to restoring the economy is widespread and frequent testing and development of a vaccine. I am not going to feel safe until those things happen despite what the so-called president says.
> 
> Ricky's Popi


Countries are doing both. They are not devastating their economies while taking care of workers and protecting citizens from COVID.


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## 31818

Mikki said:


> Countries are doing both. They are not devastating their economies while taking care of workers and protecting citizens from COVID.


Then why isn't the U.S. doing that? (That is a rhetorical question that we both know the answer to!)

Ricky's Popi


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## Heather's

I'm not very optimistic about flattening the curve while very state is doing their own thing. Definitely will not be flying or taking any trips until there is a vaccine.


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## EvaE1izabeth

Heather's said:


> I'm not very optimistic about flattening the curve while very state is doing their own thing. Definitely will not be flying or taking any trips until there is a vaccine.


I do think it has to be that way, to some degree, because the statistics for each state, and even counties within each state are so different. But I was kind of surprised there wasn't an overall, uniform system for each region to implement independently, and to continue limiting or monitoring interstate travel in some way. The criteria to reopen is all over the place. It's a lot of confusion.

I can't imagine traveling, either. Which is funny because we don't really travel much anyway, but it sort of feels disappointing like we had a big vacation cancelled and we didn't even have one planned!


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## mudpuppymama

Post deleted


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## EvaE1izabeth

Everyone is entitled to their opinion regarding the seriousness of coronavirus in the context of their own life. Please don't form that opinion based on the comparison of covid-19 to the flu. When was the last time a city had to rent refrigerated trucks because of of an unprecedented number of deaths?

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/


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## EvaE1izabeth

Also, the worldwide number of deaths attributed to coronavirus is now well over 275 thousand, and over 4 million cases. I do NOT want to bandwagon here, truly. But we just have to be really cautious that we aren’t letting people with louder voices, who are good at throwing together a meme or chart, but have no scientific authority or education, influence our opinions. If there is going to be debate, it should at least be between experts in the field, not politicians or news reporters. Post something from a scientific source suggesting this is an overreaction, and that I’ll objectively consider.


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## mudpuppymama

I was not trying to convince anyone of anything. I personally do not know who to believe. I just thought it was interesting to see all the different death causes. For example, malaria is a huge killer which has been around forever.


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## 31818

mudpuppymama said:


> I thought this was interesting to help put things into perspective...


This chart has been circulating on the Internet for over a month now. I first saw it a month ago when it was posted on the private chat list of our HOA by ultra right wing conservatives who are residents here. The chart makes it appear that it was generated by "Worldometers" a legitimate statistical organization. Worldometers has disavowed this chart as being misleading and inaccurate. The chart was generated by something called "ASK" a secret right wing organization that deals in conspiracy theories. In fact the purpose of the chart was NOT to discredit the severity of the C-19 virus but to manipulate abortion data and to denounce "Choice" and as a pro-life meme. This chart was denounced and discredited by SNOPES.COM as being inaccurate and manipulating data taken out of context.

Disregard this chart. It is meaningless. It does NOT put things into perspective, it puts things out of perspective. It is a very subtle attempt to manipulate you into coming to conclusions that meet ASK's not-so-secret agenda. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS. ASK is a deep state organization encouraged by the so-called president. Your health, safety, and welfare require that you be suspicious of any data that is not substantiated with supporting documentation. Whether you are "Pro-Choice" or "Pro-Government control of womens bodies", make your decisions on facts not on someone else's agenda.

Regarding C-19 virus, I have stopped analyzing the hot spots by population density. Too many States are now manipulating the death and infection statistics in a downward fashion to justify an "open-the-economy" agenda......"See, our rates have plateaued and going down, we can now open the economy." These are exclusively led by Republican governors acting on the "hide the ball" agenda demanded of the them by the so-called president. Any further analysis of statistics now becomes meaningless. Our health, safety, and welfare are being compromised by the dirtier than ever swamp in Washington D.C.

Ricky's Popi


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## EvaE1izabeth

mudpuppymama said:


> I was not trying to convince anyone of anything. I personally do not know who to believe. I just thought it was interesting to see all the different death causes. For example, malaria is a huge killer which has been around forever.


I know YOU aren't, my issue is with the much less well intentioned creator of the chart.

It's hard to know who to believe, I'm with you. I do know that the comparison to the flu has been repeated a lot, to the point where my kids' classmates were repeating it, and it's dangerous.

There is a good amount of factual information out there, but a lot of it is educated predictions based on what we know about other viruses. When scientists are forced to speculate, it forces us all into this uncertain position that is really uncomfortable.

I do feel for the people that are still dying during this time unrelated to covid, and hope they aren't forgotten.


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## Melissa Woods

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Also, the worldwide number of deaths attributed to coronavirus is now well over 275 thousand, and over 4 million cases. I do NOT want to bandwagon here, truly. But we just have to be really cautious that we aren't letting people with louder voices, who are good at throwing together a meme or chart, but have no scientific authority or education, influence our opinions. If there is going to be debate, it should at least be between experts in the field, not politicians or news reporters. Post something from a scientific source suggesting this is an overreaction, and that I'll objectively consider.


100% agree. Fox News and Tr*^*p aren't medical doctors or scientists. Sadly, many Americans listen to conspiracy theories, buy into stuff like "Plandemic" etc. Nope I don't think this should be politicized. But it is because we have political leaders who've shown their own interests precede human life. Also, this whole economy vs COVID deaths is a false choice. Reopening too soon will not help the economy. I can't believe how oversimplified this has become.


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