# potty inside right after they have been let outside



## Tony & Milo (Nov 25, 2010)

I don’t know if this is normal for pups at 4 months old……I can let the pups out for potty, come in and they will sometimes go inside right after they have been let outside. I know they have gone outside since I am right there with them. Also with the snow on the ground it makes it very easy to see that they have gone. This is just frustrating to me and I don’t know if it is normal or if I am doing something wrong. I let them out on a regular schedule of every two hours. They are penned off to the tile area of my house only at this time. I really do not prefer an inside pee pad or litter box. They won’t go in their crates. They will whimper when in their crates (like at night) when they want to go. But during the day they won’t give any signal or sign at all that they have to go. I don’t know if they are too young still for my expectations? In all other areas of these new pups everything is going very well – even the getting up at night I can deal with. It is this that I am having a hard time with and getting frustrated. Help! ‘Will they ever be house trained?!!!

As always - thank you to all that are on this blog - you have been a life saver already for this new puppy mom!


----------



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I'm sure no one prefers that they have a place to go inside, but with pups at that age, people who have the most accidents are the ones who do not provide an option and expect them to only go outside.


----------



## SOPHIES-MOM (Oct 4, 2010)

Sophie also has done this. She's four months old,too. I take her out, she goes immediately, then comes in and goes ten minutes later. I do use pee pads, and she hits them 99% of the time. It's not bladder control because she goes 8 hours at night without peeing. So I think at this age, they just haven't gotten it yet. As with any training, I think they go through some confusion of what they are expected to do. Either that or they just like to pee. It is frustrating, and I can't imagine dealing with two at the same time.


----------



## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

I have always found that this change in season frequently results in backsliding.


----------



## Tony & Milo (Nov 25, 2010)

Tom King said:


> I'm sure no one prefers that they have a place to go inside, but with pups at that age, people who have the most accidents are the ones who do not provide an option and expect them to only go outside.


OK, so about the pee pad&#8230;&#8230;.if I provide this for my pups now will they eventually not need this in the house? If I provide the pee pad now will they be confused about going inside and out?


----------



## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

I remember this frustration well. I would be convinced that she finally understood and then she would do this. It FINALLY clicked with her but she was about 8-9 months old before she really understood.

To give you hope though, she has not had an accident since and she goes outside only. So I think when they finally get it, they really get it-it just takes a while.


----------



## Tony & Milo (Nov 25, 2010)

Jill in Mich said:


> I have always found that this change in season frequently results in backsliding.


They don't mind going outside in the snow but still I wonder with the cold and snow if it is contributing to this.


----------



## Tony & Milo (Nov 25, 2010)

Pipersmom said:


> I remember this frustration well. I would be convinced that she finally understood and then she would do this. It FINALLY clicked with her but she was about 8-9 months old before she really understood.
> 
> To give you hope though, she has not had an accident since and she goes outside only. So I think when they finally get it, they really get it-it just takes a while.


Did you use the pee pad inside?


----------



## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

Tony & Milo said:


> Did you use the pee pad inside?


Her breeder had her trained to use the pads and she did use them for the first 6 to 7 months and then I transistioned her to outside only. I probably should have left them as an option but I was afraid she would never learn to go outside if I did.


----------



## Tony & Milo (Nov 25, 2010)

Pipersmom said:


> Her breeder had her trained to use the pads and she did use them for the first 6 to 7 months and then I transistioned her to outside only. I probably should have left them as an option but I was afraid she would never learn to go outside if I did.


Thank you - your advice is encouraging. In the big scheme of things I know this is not a long period of time but right now when we are in the thick of it - it seems like it has been forever!!!


----------



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Tony & Milo said:


> OK, so about the pee pad&#8230;&#8230;.if I provide this for my pups now will they eventually not need this in the house? If I provide the pee pad now will they be confused about going inside and out?


There is no confusion. This is human reasoning and it does not exist in the puppy. Most always get to the point that they prefer to go outside, but it can come anywhere from 12 weeks to 6 months (roughly) depending on the individual.

It's all about establishing habit from the very beginning. There is no reasoning on this with a young puppy any more than there is with a human baby who needs to wear diapers.

Anything they do once that they are not supposed to do is an "accident". Anything they do twice becomes a habit. The most important thing is to establish the correct habit from the earliest possible age. This is the reason we start ours at 3 weeks. Once they develop a habit, to break that is not "training", but has become "retraining". Retraining is always many times harder than training from the start.

This is quite simply the reason why some puppy mill puppies can never be housetrained, and the number one reason why dogs are given up to shelters and rescues.

This is also why I say that "potty training" and "house training" are separate issues. Potty training develops the habit that they have designated surfaces to potty on and has to be ingrained as a habit. House training is when you can trust that they will always only go on their owners designated place, whether it's some place provided to potty inside or outside only.


----------



## Tony & Milo (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks Tom – this all makes sense. We started with the litter and that just did not work. They were sleeping in it more than using it to go potty. We took that up and tried them going exclusively outside. They go on command outside so I think that is established well. No issue there. I have put the pee pad down and they have used it this morning with us still taking them outside to potty every two hours like we were before. 

Don’t worry about us – our pups won’t ever end up given to a shelter. That would be like giving up one of my kids and that would never happen. You may, however see me post lots of questions though!


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Tom King said:


> I'm sure no one prefers that they have a place to go inside, but with pups at that age, people who have the most accidents are the ones who do not provide an option and expect them to only go outside.


Right on Tom. I was able to train Molly without a crate or puppy pads. But that was because either me or my wife took her out every hour on the hour,(my wife was home 24/7. With plenty of feedback she learned quickly. Not everyone can do this though. This topic ,has to be the number one problem people have with puppies. There are a number of good aricles on housetraining ,including Tom's. And the biggest problem people have, comes down to providing the opportunity frequently, and rewarding the dog for doing it where we want, whether it be inside or out. I've always liked this article, on regressions.... 
"If your dog is under a year old and he occasionally just goes in the house without
warning, understand that is natural. Like young children, some dogs develop
physical control over their bladder and bowels faster than others. It appears to me
that dogs under a year sometimes don't even feel the urge to go and are surprised
to find themselves dirtying the house. Some dogs will be perfectly housetrained at
eight weeks, and some dogs will be unreliable until they are a year old. Although
it is not desirable to have a dog that still occasionally messes in the house at 10
months old, there is not necessarily anything wrong with that dog.
The most common housetraining problem I see is that people have unrealistic
expectations of how long a puppy can wait between trips outside. A young puppy
may need to go out fifteen times a day. A two year old rescue dog that has never
been housetrained also might need to go out fifteen times a day. The more predictable
you are about taking out your dog when he needs it, the more likely he is
to "hold it" until you let him outside. Every time you give your dog the chance to
go outside when he needs to, he is reinforced by being able to honor his instinct to
be clean. Every time you fail to get your dog out in time and he goes in the house,
you have damaged your dog's instinct to go outside and he is reinforced for going
in the house by the relief he feels. Remember the definition of reinforcement?
Reinforcement increases behavior. Thus, every time you get your dog or puppy
outside in time, you increase the behavior or going outside. Every time you fail to
get him out in time you increase the behavior of soiling in the house. Eventually,
you will not need to go out so many times a day, but with puppies or remedial
dogs you need to take them out often until the behavior of going to the bathroom
outside is a strong one" Jean Donaldson.


----------



## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

We have pee pads all over the house just to be on the safe side.Nellie goes out side every couple of hours and usually does a pee[she is 7 months old]She sometimes uses her pad in the night.And she uses the pee pad in our breakfast room in the evening if we are not paying enough attention to her signals to go outside,I think she will be fully reliable next summer when the weather is warm and the back door is open so she can come and go as she pleases.In the mean time it is not worth stressing over!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tony & Milo said:


> OK, so about the pee pad&#8230;&#8230;.if I provide this for my pups now will they eventually not need this in the house? If I provide the pee pad now will they be confused about going inside and out?


Kodi was never the least bit confused. He knew that either were "OK" places to go, and that other places were "not OK". As he matured, of his own choice, he preferred to go outside if possible, unless the weather was horrendous. I'm sure that if we took the litter boxes away at this point, we could have him only go outside. But the litter boxes are easy, and give him an appropriate place to pee inside if the need arises. (he never poops inside anymore)


----------



## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

When I had my last 2 puppies, which was almost 4 and 6 years ago, I thought they peed quite a lot. It seemed like they were "going" every 20 minutes or so. I was glad that they were pee-pad trained, because it was almost impossible to keep up with the peeing trips outside. It was so cute seeing them stop in the middle of play and run over to the pad!

Don't worry, they can use the pee-pads inside and will transition to the outside quite easily when their bodies are more developed.

I only wish I had kept up the inside pee-pad use for bad weather and emergency situations. They will NOT use them now. They'd look at me as if I were crazy, if I expected them to use the pads now.

They never have accidents in the house.
Well, to be honest, little Finn, our rescue boy has had a few, but it is because we've missed his "signals".


----------



## Tony & Milo (Nov 25, 2010)

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. Thanks Dave for posting part of that article. I was getting a bit impatient since it seems like a long time to me. All the comments have reminded me that I need to be patient and continue to be consistent in letting them out on a regular schedule. I think I will cut back from every two hours to every hour taking them out.


----------



## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

My experiences - Jack has more accidents (poos) in the house when I am not home and dh is watching the boys. I think dh is missing Jack's signals.....and he does not give Jack enough time outside to go poo. 

To me...Jack is still a puppy learning. Ugggggg......he is only 11 months old! Jack would rather play, hunt for dessert outside and eat it and smell all the other stuff outside instead of doing his business. So, when I take Jack and Dexter outside, I try to stay in the favorite potty areas, if no luck, we move to the next potty area.....

They have me trained so well! Jack rarely has an potty accident when I am home.....Go figure! 

I am trying my best to work on the bell system with Jack because his scratching at the door is just not loud enough. 

I am really tempted to drag out the potty holder and use a pad on it with potty smells for Jack, so he has an emergency area to use. 

Keep up the good work! Working with two pups can be hard at times.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

We found that if we take Kodi out on leash to potty, he gets done with his business quickly. If we just go out with him loose, he gets interested in EVERYTHING, and it can take a long time. So the rule is, on leash first, get your business done, then if it's nice out (and we have time) he gets his RLH time!:biggrin1:


----------



## Ellie NY (Aug 27, 2010)

Eli would do this all the time and it was definitely a source of confusion for me. He'd go outside and upon coming home would immediately pee again. The good news is it did stop. He's about 6.5 months old and I can say that, finally, housebreaking has clicked for him. He still has accidents in the house but they are rare, and are becoming more and more infrequent. He has no alternate place to go as we never used wee wee pads or a litter box. Not sure if this is helpful except to say that house training has been the #1 frustrating issue and he is getting better daily - so will your pups.


----------



## Tony & Milo (Nov 25, 2010)

Ellie NY said:


> Eli would do this all the time and it was definitely a source of confusion for me. He'd go outside and upon coming home would immediately pee again. The good news is it did stop. He's about 6.5 months old and I can say that, finally, housebreaking has clicked for him. He still has accidents in the house but they are rare, and are becoming more and more infrequent. He has no alternate place to go as we never used wee wee pads or a litter box. Not sure if this is helpful except to say that house training has been the #1 frustrating issue and he is getting better daily - so will your pups.


Yes it is helpful. It lets me know I am not alone in this. Sorta like when you have a new baby and just knowing others go through the same things is helpful. Makes me realize that I am not failing as a puppy mom! But they just need more time to grow and develop those bladder muscles.


----------



## Brand New Havanese Mom (Jan 4, 2011)

Thank you thank you everyone! I just brought my little pup home a couple of weeks ago (he's now 13 weeks), and I've never owned a dog before! I have been feeling so confused about what I should do, and whether things will work out. I use pee pads and take him outside. I just came back to work today for the first time since I brought him home, so I wanted to keep him used to the pee pads inside his ex-pen, which he actually uses, so that's good. I just was wondering if he would ever actually transition to outside, but thanks to all of you, I know that he will and my stress level is now down several notches! Now, if I can only figure out how to get him to use the pee pad instead of the carpet when he is out of his expen playing!


----------



## jenisny (Aug 26, 2010)

Dave - Do you have the link to Tom's article that you referred to? I have been trying to search through his posts, as I was told he has given a lot of advice, and there are many, many posts to sort through. If you have this article, I would be most appreciative.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

jenisny said:


> Dave - Do you have the link to Tom's article that you referred to? I have been trying to search through his posts, as I was told he has given a lot of advice, and there are many, many posts to sort through. If you have this article, I would be most appreciative.


Not sure what catagory it's under. Email him privately. His name is on the first page. of this thread.


----------

