# Pooping in the snow



## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

We’ve had some early snow this year and I’m really having trouble getting our puppy to poop in it. Right now he just pees and then licks the snow. I cleared a spot and it helped him pee, but he just sniffs around and never finds a place to poop - and then gets distracted and starts all the licking!

I haven’t really been good about keeping up on the potty tray since he only goes out a few times a day now. He will still pee on command on it, but he doesn’t really use it independently. I’ve never been able to get him to poop on the potty tray, only pee. 

It seems pretty simple, just keep him contained and keep taking him out u til he goes. But he can hold it for a really, really long time and it’s really cold, so in case there are any magic suggestions to help him remember faster, I thought I’d ask!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I should add, he is a winter puppy and is one year old, but last year we didn’t have snow until he’d been home for a while. It was really difficult to get him to go last year, and I don’t think we really resolved it - the snow just doesn’t stay deep most of the time, so there’s usually a grassy patch where he can go. Right now it’s quite deep and very early, which is unusual. He’s already had two poop only accidents inside since it started snowing last week, and since then I’ve been watching closely and intervened to get him outside just in time.


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## cishepard (Apr 8, 2018)

I shovel paths in my yard leading to all their usual ‘pooping’ spots, and then clear a big area around . It may also help to collect a sample and place it in the area to remind them that this is the spot!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I might have to shovel a bigger section compared to last year. He is definitely bigger, so maybe that’s the problem.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I might have to shovel a bigger section compared to last year. He is definitely bigger, so maybe that's the problem.


This is our yard after a storm! LOL!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> This is our yard after a storm! LOL!


Look at those beautifully blown paths!

We only have 5" right now, but it's just enough to reach his belly and he sure has mixed feelings about it! He doesn't want his tummy to touch it, but he does want to explore it. I think if we had consistent snow like this he'd probably get used to it, but it's usually only a few times a year when we have so much that it's hard to keep a patch clear, and not until January. So I don't know if we're in for another unusual winter or what!

How do you keep your 3 coats from becoming a snowy, tangled mess? It definitely wasn't like this last year, but maybe since he's blowing coat, if he goes out and comes in wet and I can't brush out his legs right away, they are completely tangled. Yesterday morning I combed him and when I got home in the late afternoon he was a wreck.

Is there any way to try and train him to poop on the indoor potty tray this late in the game? He has never pooped on it, but I also didn't push the issue because pee was good enough for me at the time. He has pooped in the vicinity of it before, but it was a small space so I was never sure if he missed the target or was stressed out (he's only done it when he was home alone).


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Look at those beautifully blown paths!
> 
> We only have 5" right now, but it's just enough to reach his belly and he sure has mixed feelings about it! He doesn't want his tummy to touch it, but he does want to explore it. I think if we had consistent snow like this he'd probably get used to it, but it's usually only a few times a year when we have so much that it's hard to keep a patch clear, and not until January. So I don't know if we're in for another unusual winter or what!
> 
> ...


Dave "the dog hater" got the "backyard snow blower" just to make their paths. LOL!

They really don't get very snowy. They tend to stay on the paths, do their business, run a few laps and come in. It WAS different when they were puppies. Each of them went through a phase where the snow was a HUGE attraction. ...and I "defrosted" them by standing them in the sink in a warm water with conditioner in it, then towelling them dry. But as adults, they have better sense!

Sorry, but I don't know how to get an adult dog to use a potty, other than keeping them in a tiny expen, when the options are either a bed or the potty... and most people aren't willing to do that. (I don't know whether I would!)

That's why I try SO hard to encourage people to work on getting their puppies to accept and use an indoor potty in the beginning, and then to keep up their interest in it over time. SO many people are SO anxious to fade the use of an indoor potty, and "teach" their pup to potty outside. I keep reminding people that the puppies ALWAYS learn to go outside eventually if given the opportunity. But, unfortunately, it's an uphill road! &#128522;. I just hope other (young) puppy owners read your situation and take it to heart! A toy breed dog who will use EITHER an indoor or outdoor potty option is by FAR the easiest to live with!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

krandall said:


> Sorry, but I don't know how to get an adult dog to use a potty, other than keeping them in a tiny expen, when the options are either a bed or the potty... and most people aren't willing to do that. (I don't know whether I would!)
> 
> That's why I try SO hard to encourage people to work on getting their puppies to accept and use an indoor potty in the beginning, and then to keep up their interest in it over time. SO many people are SO anxious to fade the use of an indoor potty, and "teach" their pup to potty outside. I keep reminding people that the puppies ALWAYS learn to go outside eventually if given the opportunity. But, unfortunately, it's an uphill road! ��. I just hope other (young) puppy owners read your situation and take it to heart! A toy breed dog who will use EITHER an indoor or outdoor potty option is by FAR the easiest to live with!


I'm really glad we did the indoor potty, I just wish I had persevered in trying to get him to poop on it. I just figured, he goes outside morning and night so why make an issue of it? Well, SNOW is why!

The strong opinions against indoor potty is a tough one. It's frustrating that a few of the puppy sites and books discourage it. An important distinction is that using puppy pads casually is not the same as indoor potty training. I think it's everyone inexperienced person's worst fear to start out potty training and end up teaching a dog to pee in all of the wrong places! But indoor potty training for our small dog was life changing, and it was shockingly easy. Once I understood how closely contained and supervised the puppy needed to be, it required very little work, just consistency. Havanese are just really smart!

I hope other people learn from my mistakes, but I also REALLY hope that one day you and the other indoor potty training pros here on the forum publish a real "how-to" book  There is so little reliable information out there on this subject.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

krandall said:


> Sorry, but I don't know how to get an adult dog to use a potty, other than keeping them in a tiny expen, when the options are either a bed or the potty... and most people aren't willing to do that. (I don't know whether I would!)
> 
> That's why I try SO hard to encourage people to work on getting their puppies to accept and use an indoor potty in the beginning, and then to keep up their interest in it over time. SO many people are SO anxious to fade the use of an indoor potty, and "teach" their pup to potty outside. I keep reminding people that the puppies ALWAYS learn to go outside eventually if given the opportunity. But, unfortunately, it's an uphill road! &#128522;. I just hope other (young) puppy owners read your situation and take it to heart! A toy breed dog who will use EITHER an indoor or outdoor potty option is by FAR the easiest to live with!


I AGREE! and it does help to have someone encouraging puppy owners to keep up the indoor potty training. One of the reasons I decided on a Havanese is I learned they could be indoor potty trained. We have a condo in the mountains with no yard and there are no good places to walk a dog on a routine basis. Hiking is an occasional activity.

My puppy just turned 9-months and is indoor potty trained in certain rooms of the house. I was amazed at how simple it was to housebreak this dog. Patti was 3 months old when we got her. We put an ex-pen that opened into one entrance of a family-kitchen area and gated the other entrance. In the ex-pen was a potty tray, toys, food, water and bed. From day one she went to the potty tray. I don't think I've had more than 12 accidents the whole time we've been housebreaking her to an indoor potty tray.

We just took the ex-pen down but her potty tray, food, wafer bowel and toys are still there. I'll be slowing moving the potty tray until I get it into the TV room where the other potty tray ... where I'll then eliminate it.

Patti was confined to the family kitchen area until she was about 5 months-old. She slept in a crate at night in our bedroom. Around 5-months, I put her on a leash and started hanging out with her in our bedroom during the mornings while I was browsing, reading emails and newspapers on the computer. I'd periodically walk her on a leash to a potty tray in the bathroom next to the bedroom. After several weeks I took the leash off but kept my eye on her, again taking her to the potty tray in our bathroom. It was a relatively quick learning experience as she would go to the potty tray on her own.

Next came the TV room area which was gated off. I followed the same routine to train her as I did in the bedroom. *Next to each potty tray I keep a bowel of water. *

Patti was gated off in each room and not allowed to wonder around the house until a couple of weeks ago around 9 mons. I've taken most of the gates down and she can go from our bedroom, to the TV room, crossing over through the living room into the kitchen. All three rooms have potty trays and she uses them when she needs to go. When we see her *" Do Her Job* we still reward with treats.

She is gated off from the other rooms and is only allowed in those rooms under a watchful eye and a short period of time. In a few weeks we will have a fence installed and she'll be able to go outside through a doggie door, which is located in a utility room where I have a potty tray. That's when I'll train her on the other side of the house. Eventually, she'll go outside on her own but at night or when we leave the house, she'll be left in our bedroom with a potty tray and water. And, she'll use potty trays when we go to our condo the mountains in the summer. Eventually, I'll only have one potty tray in our bathroom area. Or that's the current plan.

It's really nice not have to walk her if I don't want to. And, she has an option when it's pouring rain outside, cold and snowy.

Karen suggested using Equine Pine Pellets in the trays. I do this. It eliminates odors and I don't have to change them out but a couple of times a week.

Sorry for such a long message ... but maybe it will help someone have the confidence to indoor housebreak their puppy.

I think, this only works for small dogs and cats. I would not want to indoor housebreak a large dog.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I'm really glad we did the indoor potty, I just wish I had persevered in trying to get him to poop on it. I just figured, he goes outside morning and night so why make an issue of it? Well, SNOW is why!
> 
> The strong opinions against indoor potty is a tough one. It's frustrating that a few of the puppy sites and books discourage it. An important distinction is that using puppy pads casually is not the same as indoor potty training. I think it's everyone inexperienced person's worst fear to start out potty training and end up teaching a dog to pee in all of the wrong places! But indoor potty training for our small dog was life changing, and it was shockingly easy. Once I understood how closely contained and supervised the puppy needed to be, it required very little work, just consistency. Havanese are just really smart!
> 
> I hope other people learn from my mistakes, but I also REALLY hope that one day you and the other indoor potty training pros here on the forum publish a real "how-to" book  There is so little reliable information out there on this subject.


Tom King wrote a really good "how too" on puppy potty training a long time ago. It's in here somewhere... I'm just not very good at finding things! Pretty much everyone I know who does a really good job on indoor potty training uses the King's system... whether they realize that's where it started or not!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Mikki said:


> Karen suggested using Equine Pine Pellets in the trays. I do this. It eliminates odors and I don't have to change them out but a couple of times a week.
> 
> Sorry for such a long message ... but maybe it will help someone have the confidence to indoor housebreak their puppy.
> 
> I think, this only works for small dogs and cats. I would not want to indoor housebreak a large dog.


Ha! Yeah... I would NOT want a Labrador peeing in the house... period! LOL! (although, interestingly, I do know a lot of people who breed larger breed dogs and start them with litter boxes in the whelping pen. It does help them get the idea of "here, but not there", even if the long-term plan is to have them potty outside all the time.

I have to say, with three adult dogs, I don't clean pee out of my littler boxes more than once a week, and I NEVER "change them out" completely. There might be one or two pee spots in the downstairs litter boxes in that time, and they are easy to scoop out. And poop, on the occasions that it appears, (pouring rainy days, mostly) is picked up and put in the toilet as soon as I see it. They NEVER smell. The upstairs litter box gets MUCH less use. I might see one of them has used it every other month or so.

One thing I should mention to you is that I am really glad that things have gone so well with Patty. But you may find that she back-slides a bit around the one-year mark. I was warned about this by others, and it did happen with each of mine. This has NOTHING directly to do with indoor potty training... I've heard of it happening with strictly outdoor trained puppies too. I immediately "tightened up security" for a couple of weeks and things got right back on track! Just thought I should warn you!


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## Henry&Kate (Mar 29, 2017)

Last winter, Henry’s first, he was thrown a bit by the snow. He would try to search for any remaining bits of grass. I had an unpaved but plowed drive which at least provided a place where he wasn’t in the snow but walking and pooping on a packed snow surface. And he did adapt to the snow. Then spring came and he was searching out the last bits of snow to poop on. What’s this green stuff?!?


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

I have to admit to being one of the 'never indoor' people - having always had big dogs before AND disliking pee pads immensely (and still don't like them much). I didn't know that there were other indoor options - and now I do like the idea of a liter box rather than the pads. I do wish that Perry had come to me indoor trained though, even though I suspect that he was using cloth pads at some point (if his desire to use the area rug by the door and the doormat are any indication) - I can't get him to use a pad when we're traveling, for example, and having to 'hold it' for 30 hours can't be good! (Plus I have to be so careful at monitoring his water intake to make sure he doesn't get dehydrated but ensure he's not drinking so much that he needs to pee). 

If pup #2 (when we finally agree to get one) comes along, if they were indoor trained I will definitely try to keep it up. 

For those of you who use a liter box though (which I would prefer) - do they also use a disposable pad when you travel or are the two things not seen the same way? I don't think it would be practical to try to carry a liter box with me on the plane  (though perhaps carrying a little of the pine filling and sprinkling it on the pad would do the same?) I know this is completely theoretical right now - #2 is at least a year away - but I'm curious.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> I have to admit to being one of the 'never indoor' people - having always had big dogs before AND disliking pee pads immensely (and still don't like them much). I didn't know that there were other indoor options - and now I do like the idea of a liter box rather than the pads. I do wish that Perry had come to me indoor trained though, even though I suspect that he was using cloth pads at some point (if his desire to use the area rug by the door and the doormat are any indication) - I can't get him to use a pad when we're traveling, for example, and having to 'hold it' for 30 hours can't be good! (Plus I have to be so careful at monitoring his water intake to make sure he doesn't get dehydrated but ensure he's not drinking so much that he needs to pee).
> 
> If pup #2 (when we finally agree to get one) comes along, if they were indoor trained I will definitely try to keep it up.
> 
> For those of you who use a litter box though (which I would prefer) - do they also use a disposable pad when you travel or are the two things not seen the same way? I don't think it would be practical to try to carry a litter box with me on the plane  (though perhaps carrying a little of the pine filling and sprinkling it on the pad would do the same?) I know this is completely theoretical right now - #2 is at least a year away - but I'm curious.


I don't like pads because they stink... the first time they are peed on! They are also a game for many Havanese, who love ripping up paper. Washable pads are worse because SO many dogs can't distinguish between those and area rugs. (how can you blame them?  )

When I have traveled by plane with litter-trained Havanese, I learned from Pam King to make a "portable litter box" by putting some pine pellets wrapped up in a BIG pee pad. When you open it up, there is the little pile of pellets in the middle, which gives them a target. When we will be staying someplace longer, we bring along a UgoDog tray, which is flat and packs easier. They use that just the way they use their big litter boxes at home.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

We don't get much snow usually, but have had enough from time to time where our neighbor would plow out the driveway and my husband will shovel the sidewalk. Willow will pee in the snow that piles up on the deck. That's the only time she pees on the deck. I don't mind when she does this in the snow. Then she'll go and poop on the places that have been plowed. She is not one to play in the snow like some dogs. She does her business and then heads for the door.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

We had all kinds of problems today but I think this time the snow was getting to DD. Just last week I put down a rug at the back door that I had stored away when we brought puppy home, and this morning he peed on it. It was her turn to take him out this morning, and I’m pretty sure he was waiting to go out while DD was grumbling around, looking for her boots and coat. Sigh. 

The good news is the slowly growing patch of melted snow on the lawn is making potty time much faster! Of course, it’s supposed to snow again next week, but at least he’s getting used to it and we have a potty spot prepared that we’ll keep clear.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> We don't get much snow usually, but have had enough from time to time where our neighbor would plow out the driveway and my husband will shovel the sidewalk. Willow will pee in the snow that piles up on the deck. That's the only time she pees on the deck. I don't mind when she does this in the snow. Then she'll go and poop on the places that have been plowed. She is not one to play in the snow like some dogs. She does her business and then heads for the door.


It drives Dave CRAZY when the dogs pee on the deck when there is snow on it. ...and all three of them will do it. They would never even THINK about peeing there if there was no snow, so it has to be that, in their little minds, "snow means go".  I think it must be like people who use those sog grass potties for their dogs. Dogs are trained from really early that it's OK to potty on grass and snow.

I've also thought of that in terms of "city dogs" I know that city dogs are trained to go on pavement... they need to be. None of mine would even consider pavement as an option either!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*pads*



krandall said:


> I don't like pads because they stink... the first time they are peed on! They are also a game for many Havanese, who love ripping up paper. Washable pads are worse because SO many dogs can't distinguish between those and area rugs. (how can you blame them?  )
> 
> When I have traveled by plane with litter-trained Havanese, I learned from Pam King to make a "portable litter box" by putting some pine pellets wrapped up in a BIG pee pad. When you open it up, there is the little pile of pellets in the middle, which gives them a target. When we will be staying someplace longer, we bring along a UgoDog tray, which is flat and packs easier. They use that just the way they use their big litter boxes at home.


Preaching to the choir here  the biggest reason I didn't want to indoor train was because the idea of pads was - yuck! I hadn't realized at the time that pellets/ box was an option. And you all know from other posts that I strongly suspect that Perry used cloth pads at one time because the only peeing in the house (or on cloth at all) is on small area rugs - and no, I can't blame him for thinking they're the same thing!

I was thinking the pile of pellets in the middle of the disposable pad will be the way to go (if #2 is liter box trained). For Perry (and presumably for #2) - staying somewhere longer won't be a big issue - we can take a box with us, or leave one at my Mom's for him/ her to use... it's flying tht becomes the problem - and I can't assume that #2 will be able to hold it like Perry can.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*pavement*



krandall said:


> It drives Dave CRAZY when the dogs pee on the deck when there is snow on it. ...and all three of them will do it. They would never even THINK about peeing there if there was no snow, so it has to be that, in their little minds, "snow means go".  I think it must be like people who use those sog grass potties for their dogs. Dogs are trained from really early that it's OK to potty on grass and snow.
> 
> I've also thought of that in terms of "city dogs" I know that city dogs are trained to go on pavement... they need to be. None of mine would even consider pavement as an option either!


My last dog would never ever think of going on pavement which was a super pain when we had to move (for 3 months) to Sofia, Bulgaria and were stuck in an apartment. The nearest park was several blocks away and was fine for day time, but for our late evening/ any after dark potty trips I couldn't go that far... and there was very little grass or even dirt around the apartment building itself - so we had to find the smallest dirt patch that she was ok with.

Luckily (for me) Perry has absolutely no problem going on pavement, grass, snow, anywhere outside which is great because his environment changes a lot (it's been 70-85 here in Kampala right now with occasional torrential rain and in 2 weeks he'll be in the cold Pennsylvania/ snowy environment). So if we're staying at a hotel I don't have to walk long distances in the city to find grass, we barely have to walk half a block before he'll poop/ pee on the sidewalk . I do try to find grass as often as I can, but we're good no matter where we are. The only negative to this is that if the grass in our yard is too wet (or too high) he is perfectly happy to poop on the patio (if I can catch him before he squats then the command "yard" with a pointed finger will send him running to a non-paved area of the outside space). Pooping on pavement does not translate to any hard surface - the only time we have issues inside is on area rugs.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Brill said:


> he is perfectly happy to poop on the patio (if I can catch him before he squats then the command "yard" with a pointed finger will send him running to a non-paved area of the outside space). Pooping on pavement does not translate to any hard surface - the only time we have issues inside is on area rugs.


Ha! I do the same thing. I stand in the doorway if there is light snow on the deck, and if one of them stops to sniff, I point and say, "Off the deck!" and they run down the steps.

The funniest one is Panda, who has this sassy head whip. She looks SO much like a sassy little girl stamping her foot and going "Oh, alright!", hair toss and all.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

krandall said:


> It drives Dave CRAZY when the dogs pee on the deck when there is snow on it. ...and all three of them will do it. They would never even THINK about peeing there if there was no snow, so it has to be that, in their little minds, "snow means go".


It doesn't bother me if she pees on a pile of snow on the deck. I figure it'll just get all diluted when it melts and run through the spaces between the deck boards. Plus, when our snow melts, it usually is because of rain and that helps wash it away.


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