# Question about CGC vs. TDI testing



## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

I have a question about the different testing of these two certifications. After reading about the therapy (TDI) testing requirements, I thought they seemed so similar that I might go ahead and try them both. The TDI is actually given before the CGC because we have had so much snow. Jackson has just finished his CGC class and the instructor acted like the TDI was MUCH harder and that they were much pickier about them doing everything perfectly. I do understand they have to be calm around children, hospital equipment, and be able to walk past food without touching. 

Although the TDI site states that you do not have to have passed CGC first, I know it is advised. I still may want to take the TDI course but it is not offered until the summer, and to make matters worse, the CGC test is being given the day I have jury duty!  (I've already asked for one new date and just wrote the judge again but not sure I'll get this one moved.) Would appreciate any of your experiences with the two tests.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

What is your question? Are you just looking for experiences or do you want comparisons?

I am not familiar with the TDI requirements personally, but I believe they are more strict about passing because it is specifically geared towards therapy work. The CGC (Canine Good Citizen) is an AKC program meant to encourage responsible pet ownership, however, the series of training tests involved are so good that they are used as a pre-cursor by many other programs. Depending on the AKC tester, they can be pretty lenient with the CGC requirements so long as they do pass each one. I have heard that some offer second chances, but I don't think that is the way the test was meant to be taken.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks, Kimberly . . . I guess I ran on so much that I forgot to put it in the form of a question! I guess it was more of a request for those with experience in taking the two tests and whether it would be foolish to try to take the TDI test prior to the CGC one and any therapy classes.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

LOL! Easy to do. I thought that might be what you wanted, but I didn't want to leave you hanging either.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Kathy- I have done the TDI test 3 times and each time they had all the parts of the CGC test in it but then they took it a bit more advanced- including in the crowd- a walker, a wheel chair, etc. With the CGC and TDI you can talk to your dog the entire time. It isn't like formal obedience where you can only say one time "puppy come" and if the dog doesnt come, you don't pass. I would try it- worst case, you find out what you and Jackson need to work on ex- being around equipment, loud noises, etc.

I was just at a pretty chaotic therapy dog event yesterday:tape: so remember the test is the easy part and if you don't pass, don't feel like you failed... it just means work on some things as a team and try again  But if you think you are ready for the CGC, I say go for it!


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Amanda, I figured you knew all about this but couldn't remember when you were taking off for your awesome trip! The only thing I am worried about is dropping a loud object . . . Jackson does tend to freak sometimes on those. I also read that part of the test is to be around young children which he has not done much either, but we can certainly fix that! I'll just run him over to the church preschool and that should be plenty of over-stimulation. Thanks for the input . . . I may try it just for the heck of it. Someone also told me their nails have to be ground by a dremel. Do you recall if they checked that?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

With the loud object, it is okay for them to move back and shy away-they want to see their reactivity not their stupidity  What they are testing for, if there is something loud that happens- can you get your dog under control quickly (my recent nightmare visit, they were popping balloons!) I tried to prepare for this by dropping a cookie sheet and just saying oops around the house. But all my dogs back away and that is expected.

I have never had their nails done so that would surprise me. I have ran the grooming station for a test and what they had people do is bring their own brush or the tester uses the one given here. I think the important thing here is bring your own brush and do a soft baby brush- don't do a comb. Some people were bringing bad brushes for the dogs. This is something that we do a lot with kids. My therapy dog group here tells everyone to have 3 baby brushes in their bag so the kids can take turns brushing your dog- they love this. I have never had an adult ask though. Ironically this is the station Dora failed for Delta dogs. The woman was standing up and was trying to leave over to brush Dora and Dora kept backing up to her. At the time it was my first time taking a therapy dog test. I didn't know I could say can I pick her up for you, etc.:frusty:


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks for the info, Amanda. I remember reading your post about the baby brush and I have one, so I'll take that. We have practiced the grooming thing. Jackson has done something crazy at least once in every class. His last antic when I told him to sit (he was already in a down) was to roll over and show his belly with the cute feet up Hav pose. Of course the whole class laughed at him which didn't help! I know he can do all the tests . . . it's just a matter of whether he feels like it and his handler mom  can handle him properly!


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

ama0722 said:


> At the time it was my first time taking a therapy dog test. I didn't know I could say can I pick her up for you, etc.:frusty:


Great tips, Amanda! Thank you for sharing.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

http://havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=9272

Kathy,
Here is a thread I started with similar questions that might help you.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

kelrobin said:


> Thanks for the info, Amanda. I remember reading your post about the baby brush and I have one, so I'll take that. We have practiced the grooming thing. Jackson has done something crazy at least once in every class. His last antic when I told him to sit (he was already in a down) was to roll over and show his belly with the cute feet up Hav pose. Of course the whole class laughed at him which didn't help! I know he can do all the tests . . . it's just a matter of whether he feels like it and his handler mom  can handle him properly!


Kathy- just remember Jackson will still love you if you mess up and you do the same to him. Reality is dogs will do silly things at therapy dog but they just want everyone to be successful in therapy dog and there is nothing wrong if you don't pass the first time or a couple of times. Dora has her TDI and she doesn't attend as it is just too stressful for her to visit.

The last time Isabelle took the test, they did the leave your dog with a friendly stranger midway through the test. Belle gets bored real easy and this is always the station, I dread cause I know what kind of trouble Belle can be. I always put my dogs in a down (they are less likely to break a down than a sit for my 3) so I did this with Isabelle. Well before I walked away to turn and get out of the room, Isabelle jumped on the tester's lap  That was an automatic pass in their book as she could care less about me!!!:croc: She is the same dog on therapy visits though- I am just the one who takes her from friend to friend.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Kathy, that's *so* exciting that you're wanting to do therapy work with Jackson! WooHoo! I think different programs have different prerequisites. For us, CGC was required first. Then a further evaluation was needed for therapy work. We never took any kind of therapy class, although our CGC instructor added alot of activities that were practice for therapy. The instructor dropped noisy folding chairs on the floor, had people with walkers, had yummy food left in various places where the dogs would walk by, etc.

Amanda's advice about taking your own brush for the CGC is right on. I had a soft brush for them to use on Maddie so it wouldn't get caught in her hair. I've never trimmed Maddie's nails for therapy visits, but she gets them trimmed when she's groomed every few months. She knows she's not allowed to jump up on any of the elderly residents, as their skin is very thin and fragile, and I imagine a sharp nail could tear them. I gently place her on their laps. Sometimes I use a "paws up" command for her to place her paws on their knees if they're in a wheelchair, but I make sure they don't have any bare arms where her paws go. I do bathe her within a few days of our visits.

I bet Jackson will do great! Even if there's a part of CGC that he has problems with, you can always go back and be retested later after you work on it. As far as therapy, if Jackson loves people and does well in chaotic situations, that's the most important thing. I'm so excited for you and Jackson! :whoo:


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Julie, thank you! I did read that thread when you first started it and learned a lot, and congrats to you, your daughter, and Vinnie on all your wonderful work! I was looking for more specifics about the TDI since that is the main test we have in this area, although I probably could have tagged on to your thread . I know all areas are different and all facilities may require something different, so I'm just trying to glean as much info as I can prior to testing. Jackson probably still would benefit from the class just because the couple who teaches it here are very experienced and can share a lot. I also remember Maddie's mom giving lots of great suggestions, and I just went back and reread the thread again . . . more had been added and it gives me even more insight. Jackson definitely needs to be exposed more to hospital equipment, children, and loud noises. I do take Jackson to visit my FIL at a retirement community, and that has been great, but he is in independent living and the biggest exposure is to those motorized scooters!


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

Amanda, that is so cute about Belle jumping in the lap of the tester! Jackson did have a little problem whining with the separation at first but has improved. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that one. Thanks for you encouragement. Jeanne, thank you for your kind words too! I had typed my post above earlier today and just not posted it :frusty: . . . didn't realize you had posted here!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Oh yes--certainly Kathy. I'm glad you started a new thread because it does vary alot it seems from one area to another. I just posted that thread (not remembering if you had actually posted in it) because there was alot of information shared with me and our situation at the time. I thought if you hadn't read it -it maybe could provide you more shared info you were seeking.

I'm very happy for you and Jackson. It is very rewarding to do this if you can...as I'm sure you already know  

Please keep us posted if you decide to test TDI and when Jackson passes as I'm sure he will!

Here--it was required to test CGC first,then therapy certification next. We just stopped at CGC because it was enough for what Lacy was planning on doing in our area.(Vinnie is not therapy certified) and therefore can not go into hospitals.


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