# Ache after grooming ( by Mom )...



## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Ache is 16 months and her coat is approximately 8" long. Today was bath day and it took me 1 hour 40 minutes to have all done. ( 15 minutes - pre combing/brushing, 20 minutes - bath, 50 minutes - drying, 15 minutes - combing / brushing again )
Here are some pictures of her after grooming. Her coat feels very soft and nice but it looks dry to me. Any ideas of something I can use to help with this ? Thanks.


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## amrabbitry (Apr 23, 2010)

There are others that can help with the dryness but I was wondering where did you get that cute pink hair bow?


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

She looks so pretty. Her coat looks exactly like Lizzie's!! Tomorrow is bath day for Lizzie. Her hair is starting to "twist".


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

She looks beautiful!!!!!!! Love her coloring!


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

amrabbitry said:


> There are others that can help with the dryness but I was wondering where did you get that cute pink hair bow?


 www.bowbiz.ca They have nice bows, great prices.


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Thanks, Evelyn and Lynne.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

She looks S-O-O pretty! Can't help you wit the dryness, except suggest trying a different conditioner?


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Ache looks gorgeous! I think her hair looks great!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I have been using a deep conditioning coconut oil conditioner I found at Target for humans on the spots on Tillie that are extra dry and it really seems to help!
Also, are you adding Omega 3 fish oil to her food? that could help too?
She is gorgeous! Did you trim her face? her beard looks so neat and tidy! Tillie's is getting so long I have to wash it AND her paws after walks! LOL


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Thanks, guys. I am using fish oil. I don't trim her face. She has lost some hair because of the scratching. ( allergies ) I am going to check that conditioner, Tammy. Maybe there is one for dogs similar to this one. Thanks.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Cold pressed vigin coconut oil is brilliant both for dogs and humans,it also helps with allergies.You can warm it in your hands and put it on her coat, then comb it through,then bath as usual,you may need a little more shampoo to get it out of her coat.THe other way that you can us it is by putting a very, very small amount on her coat and just comb it through and leave it in until next bath time,it is also good to feed it to them,again very sparingly,starting with a quarter of a teaspoon a day,gradually increasing to half a teaspoon.


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## Pipersmom (Jul 27, 2009)

Ache is so beautiful! I wish I could grow Piper's hair long but she matts like crazy.


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Thanks, Gigi. I am going to check out the coconut oil. She is taking fish oil but I think she can take both. 

Thanks, Julie. Piper looks very pretty in her puppy cut. Ache sends kisses.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Nice groom! So cute!


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## DonnaC (Jul 31, 2011)

Her hair looks so much like Baxter's does right now! He's got that curly stuff going on in the front, around his neck, and then a dry patch on his back like that, near his tail. The last time I bathed him, I splurged and put some of my own texturizing smoothener on it, after his hair was dry, and it looked great! Probably the same principle as coconut oil.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Ache, the beautiful puppy has become a gorgeous dog! I just love her eyes!


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Thanks, guys.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Make sure you're using high quality brushes and combs such as Chris Christensen. Cheap slicker brushes can scratch and damage the hair. I've found a good greyhound comb works nicely for "laying down" the coat. Also repeated brushing right after a blow dry on a long coat will surely cause a staticky coat. Use an anti-static spray while blow drying and/or during brushing to cut down on the static. Use a dryer with a flat attachment so you can do a really nice "stretch dry" on the coat, similar to how a hair dresser will blow dry curly hair straight. Some show people swear by Isle of Dogs products, especially the Heavy Management conditioner, which is on my list to get when I'm out of my current conditioner and I can't wait to get it! A lot of show people also like Coat Handler. Just keep in mind if she had a dry coat to begin with and you're giving her supplements, it will take months to see a difference because only the hair that is growing out will have the effects of the supplement, not the coat that is already grown out.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I would be careful feeding the oils to your dogs. My vet recommended that I give Rosie a half teaspoon on her food and no more or would cause loose stools. He told me to get Mazola oil because it has the most Vit E in it. Actually found a small bottle of store brand that had the same amount in it. The vit E is what makes the coat better and helps the skin. at the time, Rosie had a fungal infection on the top of her head.


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

atsilvers27 said:


> Make sure you're using high quality brushes and combs such as Chris Christensen. Cheap slicker brushes can scratch and damage the hair. I've found a good greyhound comb works nicely for "laying down" the coat. Also repeated brushing right after a blow dry on a long coat will surely cause a staticky coat. Use an anti-static spray while blow drying and/or during brushing to cut down on the static. Use a dryer with a flat attachment so you can do a really nice "stretch dry" on the coat, similar to how a hair dresser will blow dry curly hair straight. Some show people swear by Isle of Dogs products, especially the Heavy Management conditioner, which is on my list to get when I'm out of my current conditioner and I can't wait to get it! A lot of show people also like Coat Handler. Just keep in mind if she had a dry coat to begin with and you're giving her supplements, it will take months to see a difference because only the hair that is growing out will have the effects of the supplement, not the coat that is already grown out.


 I wish I could get organized and keep good notes. I am learning so much I am again totally confused about shampoos and conditioners. It would be great to just have the two that worked the best. I cant wait to try blow drying like the hair dresser. I would like a product that doesn't build up on the coat. Every one lately is talking coconut oil . Is that a temporary fix for dry hair? 
How old is Ache now? He looks so nice


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> I wish I could get organized and keep good notes. I am learning so much I am again totally confused about shampoos and conditioners. It would be great to just have the two that worked the best. I cant wait to try blow drying like the hair dresser. I would like a product that doesn't build up on the coat. Every one lately is talking coconut oil . Is that a temporary fix for dry hair?
> How old is Ache now? He looks so nice


I use BioGroom products (Super White Shampoo and Silk Conditioner)on Kodi. They are coconut oil based. He has very light, fine hair and it doesn't build up in his coat. I've also used the CC stuff. It was fine, but a lot more expensive than BioGroom, and I didn't see that it did a better job.


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Kathie, you ordered some new shampoo that you mentione recently, have you tried it? I need to order some and am going to get either the biogroom or the one you got. Ache looks very nice...you did a great job grooming!!!! Karen is the Superwhite good for all colors? One of mine is black and white and the other is sable...lol..


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Flynn, I got some called Ziggy's that Ann had recommended and said it worked for all her dogs with different type coats. I like the fresh smell but have been wondering if that could be causing McGee's mats? I think he's probably blowing coat, though. Abby has had a couple of mats this past week, too. I was using Bio-Groom and liked it but to me it had a masculine scent and didn't care for that for Abby - not that she would care......lol I never got any of the Bio-Groom conditioner - I already had some I've been using which is the CureCare that Dale recommended a long time ago. I am going to try the Bio-Groom for the next bath just to be sure McGee's problem is blowing coat and not the Ziggy's!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Kathie, you ordered some new shampoo that you mentione recently, have you tried it? I need to order some and am going to get either the biogroom or the one you got. Ache looks very nice...you did a great job grooming!!!! Karen is the Superwhite good for all colors? One of mine is black and white and the other is sable...lol..


I don't think it would hurt the sable... It just helps whiten up the white parts, and it contains NO bleach. OTOH, BioGroom has a bunch of different formulations, all with the coconut oil base, so you might find one you like better. I think Cherry Brook has them all.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> I use BioGroom products (Super White Shampoo and Silk Conditioner)on Kodi. They are coconut oil based. He has very light, fine hair and it doesn't build up in his coat. I've also used the CC stuff. It was fine, but a lot more expensive than BioGroom, and I didn't see that it did a better job.


 I like the price of Biogroom. Do you dilute it at all? I'm not all that thrilled with the CC shampoo and maybe I should dilute the conditioner although the bottle didn't say to. $15.00 I think for each. I baught another $15 dollor coat shine stuff I need to give it to the women who recommended it. I think that caused major build up. I actually never had a problem with the very first shampoo and conditioner It was show season products. Still more than the Biogroom.
Zoeys conformation trainer says mink oil is the best she gave me the name of the shampoo but I already forgot:frusty: 
I just found something at Bio groom has anyone tried this?Bio-Groom Mink Oil Conditioner (12 oz.) is a Coat Glosser, Conditioner and Sun Shield Enriched with Vitamin E. Mink Oil Spray gives the hair a beautiful deep down luster and sheen with one application.

Bio Groom Mink Oil Spray thoroughly conditions the coat and skin, while special sunscreens help protect hair from sun damage, bleaching, drying, and breakage. It promotes healthy coat development and growth, leaving the coat manageable and show ring ready. Non-sticky, non-greasy, non-aerosol.

For Dogs & Cats

Directions:
Spray lightly and evenly over the entire coat. Brush and groom as usual. For instant conditioning, mix 1 part of Mink Oil with 3 or 4 parts of warm water. Saturate the coat with this solution, then slowly rinse with lukewarm water, assuring deep penetration of hair and the skin. Bathe with BIO-GROOM shampoo before showing or when treatment is completed


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## Selma (Sep 16, 2011)

Hi, I am new to the forum and Zoe is our little Havanese girl, she will be 10 months next week and my husband and I are head over heels with her. She is our first Havanese(our first pup Casey, lived to be 17 1/2, she was a blond cocker spaniel and went to rainbow bridge last Christmas). I am trying to learn as much as possible about the Havanese and I am thankful for having a great breeder but also to have met other Havanese owners(great support group). I saw this link(below) and I believe they are from Cuba. It is very interesting, specially the part about using olive oil on the coat a day before washing(they do mention that the amount of olive oil used depends on the hair type, dryness etc..). Has anyone here ever tried that before?

http://bichonhabanero.tripod.com/grooming.htm

Selma


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> I like the price of Biogroom. Do you dilute it at all? I'm not all that thrilled with the CC shampoo and maybe I should dilute the conditioner although the bottle didn't say to. $15.00 I think for each. I baught another $15 dollor coat shine stuff I need to give it to the women who recommended it. I think that caused major build up. I actually never had a problem with the very first shampoo and conditioner It was show season products. Still more than the Biogroom.
> Zoeys conformation trainer says mink oil is the best she gave me the name of the shampoo but I already forgot:frusty:
> I just found something at Bio groom has anyone tried this?Bio-Groom Mink Oil Conditioner (12 oz.) is a Coat Glosser, Conditioner and Sun Shield Enriched with Vitamin E. Mink Oil Spray gives the hair a beautiful deep down luster and sheen with one application.


Yes, except if Kodi's feet have become really discolored, I dilute both the shampoo and the conditioner about 50/50. I do this more to help spread it around than anything else... they are both super thick. If his feet need whitening, I'll put it on his feet full strength, wait 5 minutes, then wash the rest of him with the diluted version.

I'd be VERY careful with the mink oil, especially since you seem to have dug yourself into a bit of a hole right now. I'd be trying to get her back to clean, natural hair first. THEN, if you REALLY need something else, figure out what you are trying to do (is her hair too dry? too dull? matting badly? whatever) then decide on a SINGLE product to try that might help.

I just remember the story of getting her so oiled up you needed to wash her at a show. You sure don't want that to happen again. I'm certainly not a conformation show person, but I'm just wondering whether you are trying SO hard to make her look perfect that you are using too much of too many different products. Remember, she's a puppy, and I know from talking to people who DO show successfully in conformation, it's OK for her to LOOK like a puppy. She doesn't have to have a mature Havanese coat yet.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Selma said:


> Hi, I am new to the forum and Zoe is our little Havanese girl, she will be 10 months next week and my husband and I are head over heels with her. She is our first Havanese(our first pup Casey, lived to be 17 1/2, she was a blond cocker spaniel and went to rainbow bridge last Christmas). I am trying to learn as much as possible about the Havanese and I am thankful for having a great breeder but also to have met other Havanese owners(great support group). I saw this link(below) and I believe they are from Cuba. It is very interesting, specially the part about using olive oil on the coat a day before washing(they do mention that the amount of olive oil used depends on the hair type, dryness etc..). Has anyone here ever tried that before?
> 
> http://bichonhabanero.tripod.com/grooming.htm
> 
> Selma


All I can say is that Kodi has a beautiful, silky, shiny coat and I have NEVER oiled it. I bathe him about once a week (it was more often when he was blowing coat) but that's because he is very active outdoors, and mostly white. If he were a darker color, I'm sure I could get away with going longer between baths. (I wish!!!)


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Selma said:


> Hi, I am new to the forum and Zoe is our little Havanese girl, she will be 10 months next week and my husband and I are head over heels with her. She is our first Havanese(our first pup Casey, lived to be 17 1/2, she was a blond cocker spaniel and went to rainbow bridge last Christmas). I am trying to learn as much as possible about the Havanese and I am thankful for having a great breeder but also to have met other Havanese owners(great support group). I saw this link(below) and I believe they are from Cuba. It is very interesting, specially the part about using olive oil on the coat a day before washing(they do mention that the amount of olive oil used depends on the hair type, dryness etc..). Has anyone here ever tried that before?
> 
> http://bichonhabanero.tripod.com/grooming.htm
> 
> Selma


Someone suggested this before and said it works great. Although she didn't tell how much olive oil, she said "a little goes a long way".


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I used Olive oil once, to get GUM out of Tillie's hair! ound:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> I used Olive oil once, to get GUM out of Tillie's hair! ound:


I used peanut butter once to get pine pitch out of Kodi's hair!:biggrin1:


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Selma said:


> Hi, I am new to the forum and Zoe is our little Havanese girl, she will be 10 months next week and my husband and I are head over heels with her. She is our first Havanese(our first pup Casey, lived to be 17 1/2, she was a blond cocker spaniel and went to rainbow bridge last Christmas). I am trying to learn as much as possible about the Havanese and I am thankful for having a great breeder but also to have met other Havanese owners(great support group). I saw this link(below) and I believe they are from Cuba. It is very interesting, specially the part about using olive oil on the coat a day before washing(they do mention that the amount of olive oil used depends on the hair type, dryness etc..). Has anyone here ever tried that before?
> 
> http://bichonhabanero.tripod.com/grooming.htm
> 
> Selma


Yes, I read the same instructions as well. I haven't done it yet with Hanna, but I'm curious to try it. I'm in a similar boat as you. I am new to the Havanese and show world and have a wonderful 7 month old puppy (will be 8 months in a few days). I've tried the Biogroom Super Cream with mixed results. It looks nice in the jar but I haven't figured out the right amount for her coat. I used it the night before her first show and had to wash her all over again the morning of because I think I used too much and it made her coat too greasy. As an emergency solution I used my own Biosilk shampoo and conditioner and it actually worked really well. I'm going to try the olive oil at some point. From what the website says, I think the key is to put some lightly on a comb first and then do the line brushing, and that it's important to bathe her afterwards. I'm still trying to figure out the whole grooming routine, I've been slacking the past couple of days and had to pay for it by de-matting her, but fortunately I've got it under control for the moment Has anyone here tried oiling their Havs and if so, what were the results? Would anyone recommend olive oil or is there another product that's more suitable?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm not sure why you would want to/need to oil a young Hav unless their coat was damaged somehow. It seems to me that with proper feeding and regular grooming with mild products, there's no reason that their coat should be dried out enough to need oiling. Their coats are supposed to be light, airy and floating. I would think oil would weight their very light hair down.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

krandall said:


> I'm not sure why you would want to/need to oil a young Hav unless their coat was damaged somehow. It seems to me that with proper feeding and regular grooming with mild products, there's no reason that their coat should be dried out enough to need oiling. Their coats are supposed to be light, airy and floating. I would think oil would weight their very light hair down.


Yes, regular bathing and brushing with quality products does keep a Hav's coat in nice condition. However, when conditioning a dog for show, the best possible methods are used to bring out the best in the dog. Yes, oil will make a coat heavy, but from what I'm reading it's meant to be washed out and serves to soften, moisturise and protect hair. Even back in the 1800's, exibitors (who I assume were mostly the wealthy) used to feed show dogs food only fit for human consumption, dogs were fed exclusively BY HAND to avoid staining, and some even had their back feet wrapped so they wouldn't mat their coats up by scratching. For beginners, it seems to be a matter of trial and error to find the best product for each dog that will help catch the judge's eye in the ring. Coat isn't even the most important thing for a Hav, it's the soundness of structure and movement, and genetics is the biggest factor. I've attached a picture of Vallee, a top Havanese. Take a look at her flawless coat. I would be very curious to know how they get that beautiful shine and no-hair-out-of-place look. She has the genetics for coat, but I highly doubt her groomed look is from a simple shampoo and conditioner combo. This is what exibitors and myself included are striving for with our dogs. I obviously have a lot to learn as I am constantly battling stains.


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## mrsmooki (Sep 16, 2008)

atsilvers27 said:


> Yes, regular bathing and brushing with quality products does keep a Hav's coat in nice condition. However, when conditioning a dog for show, the best possible methods are used to bring out the best in the dog. Yes, oil will make a coat heavy, but from what I'm reading it's meant to be washed out and serves to soften, moisturise and protect hair. Even back in the 1800's, exibitors (who I assume were mostly the wealthy) used to feed show dogs food only fit for human consumption, dogs were fed exclusively BY HAND to avoid staining, and some even had their back feet wrapped so they wouldn't mat their coats up by scratching. For beginners, it seems to be a matter of trial and error to find the best product for each dog that will help catch the judge's eye in the ring. Coat isn't even the most important thing for a Hav, it's the soundness of structure and movement, and genetics is the biggest factor. I've attached a picture of Vallee, a top Havanese. Take a look at her flawless coat. I would be very curious to know how they get that beautiful shine and no-hair-out-of-place look. She has the genetics for coat, but I highly doubt her groomed look is from a simple shampoo and conditioner combo. This is what exibitors and myself included are striving for with our dogs. I obviously have a lot to learn as I am constantly battling stains.


I show Havanese in Australia for 3 years and am still trying to get that look I do think that is a professional photo its looks air brushed & a lot of Havanese are having their coats ironed to get that look they are starting to look more like Lhasa Apso & Shih Tzu who are groomed to perfection where the Havanese are not to be over groomed to be left natural that is in the Australia Standard. Ihave attached a photo of my show girl Zena she is 17 months old


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

mrsmooki said:


> I show Havanese in Australia for 3 years and am still trying to get that look I do think that is a professional photo its looks air brushed & a lot of Havanese are having their coats ironed to get that look they are starting to look more like Lhasa Apso & Shih Tzu who are groomed to perfection where the Havanese are not to be over groomed to be left natural that is in the Australia Standard. Ihave attached a photo of my show girl Zena she is 17 months old


Beautiful coat. I also prefer a more natural look on our Havanese.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

I agree with Tere - the natural look is so much nicer! I can get mine to look like perfection for about 30 seconds - then they move! Haha


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## Flynn Gentry-Taylor (Jan 17, 2008)

Quickly reading over these last posts and looking at differences in photos. Isn't the biggest factor the kind of coat your dog has? I see some with silky coats, some with cotton-looking coats. I am sure the age has something to do with it also. While I love to see a beautifully groomed dog in the show ring, I do wish all standards required the dog's coat to be "natural" and more emphasis placed on the dog's condition, rather than the coat condition..


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Flynn Gentry-Taylor said:


> Quickly reading over these last posts and looking at differences in photos. Isn't the biggest factor the kind of coat your dog has? I see some with silky coats, some with cotton-looking coats. I am sure the age has something to do with it also. While I love to see a beautifully groomed dog in the show ring, I do wish all standards required the dog's coat to be "natural" and more emphasis placed on the dog's condition, rather than the coat condition..


That would be good.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

In Britain Havs are less groomed going for the more natural look,having said that Dizzie always looks well groomed with a perfect straight parting down his back,his fur falls very straight and heavy,although underneath matts might be lurking!!Whilst Nellie has a tendency to look a real shaggy mess,even though she has no matts and her coat is so easy to groom,but I love them both!


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## amrabbitry (Apr 23, 2010)

shimpli said:


> www.bowbiz.ca They have nice bows, great prices.


I ordered some hairbows from them. Seems like nice to deal with, can't wait to get them. Thank you for sharing!


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

mrsmooki said:


> I show Havanese in Australia for 3 years and am still trying to get that look I do think that is a professional photo its looks air brushed & a lot of Havanese are having their coats ironed to get that look they are starting to look more like Lhasa Apso & Shih Tzu who are groomed to perfection where the Havanese are not to be over groomed to be left natural that is in the Australia Standard. Ihave attached a photo of my show girl Zena she is 17 months old


Mrs Mookie:

Your Zena looks lovely. How about posting some more photos? We love photos!


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## mrsmooki (Sep 16, 2008)

StarrLhasa said:


> Mrs Mookie:
> 
> Your Zena looks lovely. How about posting some more photos? We love photos!


thank you here is a photo of my new show girl Angel her show name is (Hekarwe Angel Of dreams) she is just about 5 months old


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## mrsmooki (Sep 16, 2008)

mrsmooki said:


> thank you here is a photo of my new show girl Angel her show name is (Hekarwe Angel Of dreams) she is just about 5 months old


and this is one of my favourite photos of Zena playing with her half siblings the pups were about 5 weeks old then, little Angel is in the photo.


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## mrsmooki (Sep 16, 2008)

mrsmooki said:


> and this is one of my favourite photos of Zena playing with her half siblings the pups were about 5 weeks old then, little Angel is in the photo.


sorry wrong photo here is the right one


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

GORGEOUS PUPS!!!! Angel has a whole lotta coat for 5 months old!!!


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