# Training



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

while visiting a site I linked to earlier I came across this jewel . Whether you train your Hav like our Karen Randall or whether your dog doesn't know his name yet, this is worthy of a read and a few chuckles. http://www.suzanneclothier.com/the-articles/hard-train


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> while visiting a site I linked to earlier I came across this jewel . Whether you train your Hav like our Karen Randall or whether your dog doesn't know his name yet, this is worthy of a read and a few chuckles. http://www.suzanneclothier.com/the-articles/hard-train


Good article. But I have to say that IMO, obedience trainers who do endless repetitions don't really understand or care about their dogs. The people I tend to hang with understand very clearly that WE pay the entry fees, not the dogs, and it is up to us to make sure the dog is having fun too. 

For me, trials are only the proof of the pudding, or the icing on the cake. I would train if there were no trials for us to go to, merely because it is a wonderful way to build a better relationship with my dog. When I say, "Do you want to do some work?!?!" and he comes out of his bed, all wiggles and wags, I know that, for him as much as me, "work" and "play" are the same thing. It's a time to have fun together!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

for sure, fun is what it's all about in my book.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

A further example of this is the private lesson I took on Wed. I went there expecting to run through the two classes I need to do this Sunday, then work on getting our fronts reliably straighter, especially on the broad jump.

You've all seen some of Kodi's heeling. When he's on, he's a heeling machine… He LOVES the game. But on Wed., for what ever reason, he was having a hard time even getting into the ring with attention and setting up, let alone doing the heeling pattern that starts both runs. First we tried just setting up then immediately breaking to play tug or fetch a ball. Still couldn't get him up where I needed for good work. 

So we completely changed the game plan, and started working on some things that he's been introduced to, but are pretty new, and have been HIGHLY rewarded. First we did a little work on the directed retrieve… FULL attention, REALLY "in the game" and having a ball working through it. (with a LOT of support from both of us, as he doesn't fully know the exercise) A few minutes of that and we moved on to articles, again, working with the clicker and a high reward ratio. Then we moved on to go-outs, something he knows and loves…. and he heeled BEAUTIFULLY to the right place for me to send him. We worked on fronts using his sit box, which he loves, then incorporated that into the broad jump exercise, where he had the straightest fronts he's ever had, in the most challenging position it's asked for in obedience.

In between these, each time I needed to refill my pocket with cookies, I left him in the ring on a sit stay, (his LEAST favorite exercise!) so he got that practice slipped in there too, without him even realizing it. He just knew I was going to get him more cookies!!! 

If we had insisted on TRYING to make him heel or do a structured run-through, it would have been an abysmal failure. Was he being stubborn? I don't believe in stubborn dogs in general, and I KNOW this dog isn't stubborn. He was doing the best he could at that moment under those conditions. We changed things up so that there was more novelty and more chance of reward, (because they were new exercises, we could reward small improvements and good tries… if we had insisted on heeling practice, there was nothing to reward… he wasn't giving me work that I KNOW he's capable of on a regular basis. Giving him cookies under that condition would be what one of my instructors calls "chumming the waters hoping for a bite" ) and his enthusiasm improved to the point that he was giving his all! Of course, if I were into that, I could have tried "corrections"… popping him with the leash or something, but I seriously doubt that would have improved his attitude. And I don't believe in correction-based training, even in those circumstances where it works. (AND… he isn't on leash the entire time he is in the ring for a lesson… He only gets the leash clipped back on to leave the ring. So I don't have it as a "weapon" even if I wanted it  )


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Tia Karen, without quoting your whole post, all I can say is fascinating and chock full of useful tips! Most days I am on, and some days I am not. Why? No se.

What I am having most trouble with right now is what Popi calls "lazy sits" or "side saddle sits." No what I meen? Any suggestions Kodi?

su amigo, Ricky Ricardo


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Tia Karen, without quoting your whole post, all I can say is fascinating and chock full of tips! Most days I am on, and some days I am not. Why? No se.
> 
> What I am having most trouble with right now is what Popi calls "lazy sits" or "side saddle sits." No what I meen? Any suggestions Kodi?
> 
> su amigo, Ricky Ricardo


Yes! A sit box that JUST fits, with no room to spare. Do you know how to use a clicker to shape a behavior? If so, use that to teach him to sit on the box. If not, LMK, and I'll give you some hints. Then use a clicker to mark and reward only quick, accurate sits.

The sit box is great for many things once the dog knows what it is. Most dogs get to LOVE their sit boxes because they are so highly rewarded for using them.

Also, one thing to remember with young dogs is that they sometimes just don't have the hind end and core strength to hold an upright sit for any length of time. You have to build that strength. That is particularly true with long backed dogs like Havanese. Kodi had a hard time witht he sit when he was an adolescent too. In his case, he didn't roll onto a hip, but his back feet kept sliding out to the sides (what is often called "rabbit feet" in obedience circles). Then he'd have to wiggle to readjust and bring them under.

To solve the problem, we did two things. To help him immediately, we got a piece of yoga mat and had him do all his long sits on that. The grippier surface helped him hold his position. At the same time, I got a FitPaws egg and donut:
http://www.fitpawsusa.com

And started him on a regular routine of core strengthening exercises. This included sit/stand/down on the egg (with me holding it) and on the donut (eventually without help). We also started including wlaks (not running or trotting) up steep hills to improve core strength. Once he was steong enough, the slipping feet disappeared, even on a more slippery surface. i suspect that a lot of what tou are seeing with Ricky dropping over onto a hip is a strength issue.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> A sit box that JUST fits, with no room to spare.


WHOA, Tia Karen! A sit box? Never heard of one before. Popi and mi are both pre-novice, so I had to Google "sit box." What a concept! Can you buy them or do you have to make one? How high off the floor should they be? What size is the top area (I know it depends on the size of the doggie)? I tink Kodi is slightly bigger than mi, but about the same size. What are the top dimensions of his sit box?



> Do you know how to use a clicker to shape a behavior? If so, use that to teach him to sit on the box. If not, LMK, and I'll give you some hints.


No, don't know clicker training but I want to learn. Also I want to learn what LMK means for some hints.



> At the same time, I got a FitPaws egg and donut:
> http://www.fitpawsusa.com


Okay, went to website but confused on what size to purchase. Any suggestions?

muchas gracias por todo.

besos, Ricky Ricardo


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

This:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> WHOA, Tia Karen! A sit box? Never heard of one before. Popi and mi are both pre-novice, so I had to Google "sit box." What a concept! Can you buy them or do you have to make one? How high off the floor should they be? What size is the top area (I know it depends on the size of the doggie)? I tink Kodi is slightly bigger than mi, but about the same size. What are the top dimensions of his sit box?
> 
> No, don't know clicker training but I want to learn. Also I want to learn what LMK means for some hints.
> 
> ...


You don't need to buy a sit box! They can be made out of anything&#8230; Particularly for a small dog. Here are three of mine. The white one is a board that I had my husband cut to the right length. Then I used a staple gun to cover it with that rubbery shelf liner stuff. This is my most useful sit box, because it doesn't move around AT ALL as he gets on and off it.

The grey one is two pieces cut out of an extra section of the rubber matting from my training room just taped together with packing tape. Quick, easy and light weight to carry around in my training box.

The green one is just a kneeling mat for gardening that looked to be about the right size, that I found yesterday at the dollar store. These are quite good width-wise for Havanese&#8230; they may be a little long, depending on the dog and what you are trying to do with it. As you'll see in the video I will post in a couple of minutes, the extra length was useful to me trying to use it on our slippery tile kitchen floor, as I was able to anchor it with my toes so it didn't skid around.

For the Fitpaws egg, mine is the 65cm size. (the smaller one) For the donut, the only have one size, as it is specifically meant for small dogs.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

And here is a video to explain the process. It's kind of backwards&#8230; stupid of me, and I don't know how to edit video clips. So it shows shaping the sit box first, followed by how to charge the clicker.

Obviously you have to teach the dog what the clicker means FIRST, for it to have any meaning for him.


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