# Our girl won't come inside ... plays ding dong ditch ...help!



## ShelbysMama (Jun 15, 2011)

Shelby loves the yard. In fact, she loves being outside so much ... she refuses to come in. Even when it's raining. Or snowing. Or it's time to go to bed. Or Mommy is just nervous about her being outside for so long. She knows all of the neighbors' schedules and knows when they're going to be outside, so she can be nosey, watch them, and bark. She has to go outside everytime she hears another dog. She has to go outside anytime she hears someone talking. Yes, I know she doesn't "HAVE TO" go outside, but she whines, and barks, and makes me feel really mean if I don't let her out. 

When it's time to go to bed, or I'm worried about her (years ago one of my dogs was stolen, so I'm just a little paranoid ... okay, a lot paranoid!), she refuses to come inside, even when I talk sweet or offer treats. My husband and I have literally gone outside to get her physically, but she thinks it's so funny. She wags her tail, and plays "catch me if you can". It's literally taken thirty minutes before to track her down. I try to sneakily leave treats on the steps and when I see her go to get them, open the door and snatch her. But she's caught onto that too I'm afraid, and now she thinks it's really funny. She gets the treat, and she doesn't have to come in ...

She's also playing pranks on us. She'll scratch at the door, then run when she sees or hears us coming, and hides behind the tree where we can't see her. We call it ding dong ditch.

I know she's playing, but I'm afraid sometime there will be a severe storm or something (I live in the midwest), and we won't be able to get her inside. What can I do? Is this harmless behavior? I know to her it's a big game and I don't want to hurt her feelings or anything, but it's getting to the point that she's staying outside for five or six hours a day. :frusty:


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## Kalico (Jan 11, 2012)

Wow naughty girl Shelby!  I'd go back to the beginning with doing obedience and practice NILF for everything. One thing that helped me work on a few issues with my lab is Patricia McConnell's book "Family Friendly Dog Training". It's a six week obedience course you can use as a refresher. You'll be surprised how quickly she will get the point if you are consistent. The consistency is the magic ingredient, it has to be 100%! Good luck!


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

This would be funny if not so serious. I would love to see her hiding from you. Maybe when it get hot outside she will rather be indoors. Many years ago my teenage daughter took a two year old collie to training. She was dedicated and the dog learned and used everything that was taught. I remember that she had a long cord that was attached to her collar...real lightweight. Then she would practice calling her and slightly pulling on the long cord. There had to be food involved I guess. Anyway by the end of the summer, the dog was perfect at coming when called.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Mine do that to me too, some days more than others. Yesterday was one of those days when they drove me nuts. Every half hour to hour they were running, jumping and antsy, pushing me to let them out. I think the wonderful spring like weather might have something to do with it.

I used to have a terrible time getting them in when they wanted to play. I finally found a treat they all salivated for and shook the bag, saying who wants a cookie? After a few days, they all came running, almost every time.


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## Rita Nelson (Jul 13, 2009)

No words of wisdom from me on that problem. I think most of us on the forum have the opposite problem.........VELCRO pups. Sometimes I wish Tucker would stay outside for a few minutes without me or DH. I'm sure other will have good advise for you though.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I have not had one like this yet, but one of my trainers has terrier's and the Carin would not be caught and not come (it is a great obedience dog now), she says for all most a year she had a long line every time the dog went out, we also have lighting storms, light tug brought the dog in and then a treat, just like Lucile's daughter. Sit and recall are the two most important comands.


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## mamacjt (Aug 23, 2011)

Well, thank GOD my dog loves cheese because when he pulls tricks like that, all I have to do is say the magic word and he comes running!!! Perhaps you need to find something that "trips her trigger" too.


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## LunasMom (Sep 11, 2011)

Luna loves the outdoors as well. She hits the bells on the kitchen door to go out to the lanai and then bangs the bottom of the screen door to say "all the way out to the patio and grass; fresh air in the lanai is not good enough". Because we can not be sure she may really have to go potty (75% of the time, she does not), we have no choice but to let her out--which means one of us has to go as well because we do not let them out alone, ever! Eventually she will come in when we call her especially after she urinates because then we do a "potty dance" during which she gets about 20% of a single Gooberlicious treat.

Regarding your fear that your dog will not come in a true emergency, may I suggest you look at the post "Calling All Havs" which is a technique to an easy training to guarantee a "come" under extreme circumstances. I wear a whistle every day as does DH. The method has been a reall security blanket for us. We are presently working on it for our second Hav, Sola. Training a second is harder because the first one always responds as well and I can't tell for sure that Sola is trained yet.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Luciledodd said:


> This would be funny if not so serious. I would love to see her hiding from you. Maybe when it get hot outside she will rather be indoors. Many years ago my teenage daughter took a two year old collie to training. She was dedicated and the dog learned and used everything that was taught. I remember that she had a long cord that was attached to her collar...real lightweight. Then she would practice calling her and slightly pulling on the long cord. There had to be food involved I guess. Anyway by the end of the summer, the dog was perfect at coming when called.


The other thing about using a long line like this is that if the dog starts to run away, you can step on the line and not let them get away... Which spoils the game.:biggrin1:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> I have not had one like this yet, but one of my trainers has terrier's and the Carin would not be caught and not come (it is a great obedience dog now), she says for all most a year she had a long line every time the dog went out, we also have lighting storms, light tug brought the dog in and then a treat, just like Lucile's daughter. Sit and recall are the two most important comands.


I've heard for other very consistent trainers that there are certain dogs that just take a really long time to learn a really reliable recall... There are a few that can never be totally tusted. Sight hounds are USUALLY in that category. It is the rare sight hound that is reliableoff-leash in a suburban setting. Interestingly, (since I think of them as one of the consummate obedience breeds) Tollers tend to be very untrustworthy off leash in an uncontrolled environment. I've been told that you should count yourself lucky if you have a reliable recall under all conditions in under two years WITH CONSISTENT PRACTICE. (something that a lot of people aren't willing to really put in)


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

I wrote something recently on this the thread was "recall"it may be under general discussion ?


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## curly_DC (Nov 27, 2011)

Have you tried "reverse psychology" on her? Any time Sergio starts the "chase me" game inside, I just start walking in the opposite direction and he follows me!! Hilarious. I live in an apartment, so I always escort him outside on a leash and harness.


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## ShelbysMama (Jun 15, 2011)

curly_DC said:


> Have you tried "reverse psychology" on her? Any time Sergio starts the "chase me" game inside, I just start walking in the opposite direction and he follows me!! Hilarious. I live in an apartment, so I always escort him outside on a leash and harness.


The only thing that ever works is if me and her Daddy open the curtains on the french doors, grab squeaker toys, and be loud dancing around and pretending that we're having so much fun. This only works though if we do it for about ten minutes. Occasionally she'll come in if she sees Sissy getting a treat. But none of these techniques are 100%, and wouldn't be quick enough if it was an emergency. I'm thinking of taking the advice of the other members and working on the COME command, using the lightweight leash. She's good at coming when at the park and inside, but it seems like when she's in the backyard she just wants to goof off.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShelbysMama said:


> She's good at coming when at the park and inside, but it seems like when she's in the backyard she just wants to goof off.


Any new behavior is going to be more challenging in some situations than others. It's your job to make it more rewarding to come to you than it is to stay away.

With most dogs who "evade capture", the reason is that it's usually not very much fun once they get caught. (or come to their handler) You need to work on the recall when you DON'T need to get her, over and over and over. Start in a small controlled space, then work toward larger areas with a long line before trying without a long line. You should have a criteria of at least 85-90% accuracy before moving to a more challenging setting. While you are teaching the recall, make sure that you grab her collar, then reward her HIGHLY for coming to you. Then, and this is VITALLY important, let her go again. You have to teach her that a recall doesn't always mean the end of the fun time she was having in the yard. In the beginning, you should be rewarding 100% of the time, and releasing at least 80% of the time. Don't even let her loose if you think you are going to have to collect her again soon.

And try very hard not to bribe her. Treats used as rewards for behaviors you are training are great. But when you try to bribe her with treats, you are allowing HER to train YOU, and up the ante avery time.


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## Lilly'sMom (Jan 28, 2010)

Lilly kind of has the opposite problem lately. She'll "ask" to go out, once out, she starts barking, knowing I will call her in and give her a treat for coming when called. And - she won't take a "normal" treat. She beckons with her head to the cupboard where I keep her special treats. lol


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## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

YES NICE explanation Karen. I think people forget that you have to TRAIN recall and it is about the hardest thing,much harder than fun tricks! I just took a long walk with Atticus on a drag line and I think i recalled and released him about 20 times. When we returned to the car I just got him and put him in. BE sure you use a harness NOT a collar for a drag line! good luck!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lilly'sMom said:


> Lilly kind of has the opposite problem lately. She'll "ask" to go out, once out, she starts barking, knowing I will call her in and give her a treat for coming when called. And - she won't take a "normal" treat. She beckons with her head to the cupboard where I keep her special treats. lol


That's a pretty easy problem to solve, though. Just start treating her ONLY when YOU call her. Otherwise she's training you!


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

krandall said:


> Any new behavior is going to be more challenging in some situations than others. It's your job to make it more rewarding to come to you than it is to stay away.
> 
> With most dogs who "evade capture", the reason is that it's usually not very much fun once they get caught. (or come to their handler) You need to work on the recall when you DON'T need to get her, over and over and over. Start in a small controlled space, then work toward larger areas with a long line before trying without a long line. You should have a criteria of at least 85-90% accuracy before moving to a more challenging setting. While you are teaching the recall, make sure that you grab her collar, then reward her HIGHLY for coming to you. Then, and this is VITALLY important, let her go again. You have to teach her that a recall doesn't always mean the end of the fun time she was having in the yard. In the beginning, you should be rewarding 100% of the time, and releasing at least 80% of the time. Don't even let her loose if you think you are going to have to collect her again soon.
> 
> And try very hard not to bribe her. Treats used as rewards for behaviors you are training are great. But when you try to bribe her with treats, you are allowing HER to train YOU, and up the ante avery time.


Exactly what I was going to say. About the 'bribing' - I was also going to say, _don't_ make a big deal about getting the treat out as you have been doing. She needs to learn that she gets rewarded for _coming to you when you call_, *not *for when it looks like you are getting a treat out. Hide the treat in your hand beforehand for a bit if you need to. You may not think that will work but if you do what Karen says and start inside, in a very controlled environment, and at first treat 100% of the time, believe me she WILL get it .

And Karen already said this but it can't be emphasized enough - you should never *ever *call a dog (at least at first) if you are going to do something they don't like (put them in the bath, take them inside, etc.). They need to figure out that coming to your call means reward, not punishment (and even if you treat but then you take them inside, that will often seem like punishment to them).

It takes practice, practice, and more practice. And even when you get it down in the house, and then in the yard, well, dogs are basically incapable of generalizing - so even 100% recall in those places will NOT mean reliable recall at friend's houses, at the dog park, on the street, etc. etc. etc.

Fun stuff, right?!  But, it's worth it, to be able to save their lives if they slipped their leash and are running towards a busy street. IMO, recall is THE important command to teach. But, it takes work, sigh!!!


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Atticus said:


> YES NICE explanation Karen. I think people forget that you have to TRAIN recall and it is about the hardest thing,much harder than fun tricks! I just took a long walk with Atticus on a drag line and I think i recalled and released him about 20 times. When we returned to the car I just got him and put him in. BE sure you use a harness NOT a collar for a drag line! good luck!


Also, this may help - as Jody pointed out, you can practice recall any time (and should be practicing it many times a day until they are reliable). Just keep a handful of treats on hand, and randomly throughout the day, whether you are inside, in the yard, on a walk, or wherever, just call them and then treat and/or praise, and let them go.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

We have been using the Reliable Recall that Carol mentioned using for Luna and Sola. It works really well and when that whistle blows, Abby and McGee come running and immediately sit in front of us waiting for their treat. We've even been doing it outside some, too. 

Ours got used to getting a treat every time they came back inside when we were potty training McGee but I have slowly stopped giving treats for that now that he is reliably trained. They also ring the bell to go out all day long but they do come running to the door when they hear the door handle move! I am convinced that they respond best to consistency.


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## Rene831 (Mar 25, 2012)

Charly girl stopped coming for my HD when called. She didnt want to find out what he wanted her for. I suggested only using the word for reward/fun things for a while. He started using come when he feeds her, play or car rides which she likes. He now treats her when called if its not to have fun. She is back to being mostly reliable for him. My Hd practices more with Charlys training. I think time spent and consistency is the key.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Its a dogs life and life sounds good at your home I have been trying to teach the bell system here. They so far know the bell means a treat. The other day when the sisters wouldn't come in I rang the bell and they came running. I thought that was pretty funny. So all my training has come in handyound:


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Dexter is pretty good about coming back. It is Jack who is the explorer. When we go outside, it is not just to go potty...it is also exploring time (me to clear some the the twigs, logs, branches from the woody area) and for the boys to smell to their delight. 

Sometimes, I literally have to go get Jack and pick him up to carry him back to our yard. I try to train "over here"....."EH!" "EH!" or "This way!" When we have been out for more than 10 minutes or so, I always get them in by, "Let's go get a cookie!" 

Dexter is pretty good, he stays close to home. I always have my eyes on both of them. The back yard where they have all their fun. Lots of training is involved.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

Rene831 said:


> Charly girl stopped coming for my HD when called. She didnt want to find out what he wanted her for. I suggested only using the word for reward/fun things for a while. He started using come when he feeds her, play or car rides which she likes. He now treats her when called if its not to have fun. She is back to being mostly reliable for him. My Hd practices more with Charlys training. I think time spent and consistency is the key.


I, and numbers of other people, NEVER call the dog to come when it's to do something the dog doesn't like. I go get the dog for anything the dog doesn't like. And also, I (and numbers of others) give SOME kind of reward every time the dog comes when called. I usually use treats for this.

It's easy to get a recall going by rewarding the response to the cue (Come, or whatever cue you use). But then, the recall is so crucial that it's the one cue for which I reward the correct response every time.

With clicker-training, eventually, you can diminish use of the clicker (or the word you use instead of a clicker), and you can also reduce the number of occasions on which you use a treat to reward the response; it's called "variable reinforcement." But unless done with great care, you risk reducing the reliability of the response.

Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:37:32 (PDT)


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

Suzi said:


> Its a dogs life and life sounds good at your home I have been trying to teach the bell system here. They so far know the bell means a treat. The other day when the sisters wouldn't come in I rang the bell and they came running. I thought that was pretty funny. So all my training has come in handyound:


Hehe, Suzi! When the sisters ring the bell, do you then let them out? Is that the idea? (usually, to do their stuff outside; right?)

I love it that they came when you rang the bell! I see no reason you can't use the sound of YOU ringing the bell, while they're outside, as a cue to come to you! So that would be an appropriate time for you to give them a treat!

Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:40:01 (PDT)


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

HavaneseSoon said:


> Dexter is pretty good about coming back. It is Jack who is the explorer. When we go outside, it is not just to go potty...it is also exploring time (me to clear some the the twigs, logs, branches from the woody area) and for the boys to smell to their delight.
> 
> Sometimes, I literally have to go get Jack and pick him up to carry him back to our yard. I try to train "over here"....."EH!" "EH!" or "This way!" When we have been out for more than 10 minutes or so, I always get them in by, "Let's go get a cookie!"
> 
> Dexter is pretty good, he stays close to home. I always have my eyes on both of them. The back yard where they have all their fun. Lots of training is involved.


You're so right; Linda; it's a lot of work. I trust you follow through with the promised cookie when they respond to your cue!

It's good that you CAN go get Jack - that he doesn't evade you!

Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:43:15 (PDT)


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

When I tell the boys "Cookie!" or some other sentence that has the word cookie in it, they always get a cookie. I have them so conditioned that they will return to the porch or deck, wait at the top step and wait for a cookie. They do not get a cookie every time, on the times I do not give a cookie, they get a really good boy. Lots of training, lots of reinforcing the training will make a well behaved fur ball.


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## miller123 (Aug 13, 2011)

i tried to teach miller the recall with the whistle, and he is scared of it ound:


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