# Off leash- Yea or nay?



## miller123 (Aug 13, 2011)

Do you let your hav off the leash, why or why not and where? Also how reliable is your recall? I let miller off the leash on trails, at the park and in the lane behind our house, his recall is about 85% right now and going up.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Kodi is off leash in the woods, or anywhere that we are far away from cars and roads. But he has an extremely reliable recall. I'd call it 100%, but then he'd prove me wrong.  (which is why I still would never take a chance around cars. A dog is still a dog) So let's call it 98% reliable... but honestly, he has NEVER not come back to me when I've called. That said, we practice it ALL the time, even now. Call him back, reward, release. Over and over and over.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I agree with Karen, if there's any chance that a car can come , I don't let Molly off leash. Everyone has to know their own dog and err on the side of caution.


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## sprorchid (Mar 30, 2010)

I'd say Ollie 90% reliable with recall off leash. He's an idiot when it comes to cars, so he's only off leash when it comes to trails and if he's at school, on campus, walking around with me.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

Hanna is about 95%, she is loose in the back yard and also the front, but I am very cautious about the front yard. I always scan the neighborhood to see if any walking dogs are coming, then stand at the sidewalk. I also am watchful for any wildlife like raccoons and skunks , make sure I am well heard. She is never loose out of our property. One of the common ways small dogs can get attacked by bigger dogs is by being loose, and the big dog can be on leash. Big dogs are terribly difficult to control when they lunge to snap, but little dogs can easily be pulled toward and picked up by the owner before it gets to that point.


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

no...I have no reason to have her off leash. She has a nice fenced in backyard to run around it and if I go to the front yard I put her on a leash. Mostly we just hang out in the backyard and enjoy all the flowers in my garden. The lazy days of summer are here.( I know I am being overly cautious) She generally will come when I call and whistle for her, but there are enough distractions out in front of the house that I feel she will ignore me. Just not worth it.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

whimsy said:


> no...I have no reason to have her off leash. She has a nice fenced in backyard to run around it and if I go to the front yard I put her on a leash. Mostly we just hang out in the backyard and enjoy all the flowers in my garden. The lazy days of summer are here.( I know I am being overly cautious) She generally will come when I call and whistle for her, but there are enough distractions out in front of the house that I feel she will ignore me. Just not worth it.


Exactly, that's what I meant about knowing your dog. :amen:


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## Alcibides (Feb 14, 2012)

We live in the country by a lake with of course lots of bushes and woods. My kids have been encouraging be to let Lucky off lead and I was very impressed last week with a party on our open veranda that Lucky stayed near me and on the porch at all times. I've tried the morning routine with him off leash and he goes into the woods a little and comes back (especially when treat is involved in the call) but today my son and his lab walked to the water and Lucky tagged along (don't worry-this is an okay story) and even as they came back up the hill to the house, Lucky ran in circles on the field (which he loves to do when we walk down there even on lead) and then disappeared in the woods on the side of our property where I have been aware of fox and perhaps even a bear. I called and called and could tell he was running and exploring and finally he emerged from the denseness and went back to his favorite running field where he happily let me put him on lead (he loves his lead and the promise of walking that goes with t). I would say his recall is pretty high (though it's never immediate; he considers options and then reliably comes) and he likes to keep me in his sight etc. but this encounter really alarmed me. I thought I even remembered something about havs liking to take off (males more frequently??) and I'm wondering again whether even near the house on the veranda, I should keep him on lead. Perhaps the fault was that he went off off lead with my son and not me? Perhaps with me he would not have disappeared into the woods. When others on the forum walk with their havs in the woods, do the dogs disappear briefly in the woods and then return? Feeling a bit overhwhelmed by this off leash challenge. Thanks for any input.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Alcibides said:


> We live in the country by a lake with of course lots of bushes and woods. My kids have been encouraging be to let Lucky off lead and I was very impressed last week with a party on our open veranda that Lucky stayed near me and on the porch at all times. I've tried the morning routine with him off leash and he goes into the woods a little and comes back (especially when treat is involved in the call) but today my son and his lab walked to the water and Lucky tagged along (don't worry-this is an okay story) and even as they came back up the hill to the house, Lucky ran in circles on the field (which he loves to do when we walk down there even on lead) and then disappeared in the woods on the side of our property where I have been aware of fox and perhaps even a bear. I called and called and could tell he was running and exploring and finally he emerged from the denseness and went back to his favorite running field where he happily let me put him on lead (he loves his lead and the promise of walking that goes with t). I would say his recall is pretty high (though it's never immediate; he considers options and then reliably comes) and he likes to keep me in his sight etc. but this encounter really alarmed me. I thought I even remembered something about havs liking to take off (males more frequently??) and I'm wondering again whether even near the house on the veranda, I should keep him on lead. Perhaps the fault was that he went off off lead with my son and not me? Perhaps with me he would not have disappeared into the woods. When others on the forum walk with their havs in the woods, do the dogs disappear briefly in the woods and then return? Feeling a bit overhwhelmed by this off leash challenge. Thanks for any input.


I don't like Kodi to be out of sight, even briefly, in the woods. We have too may coyotes in our area, not to mention skunks and porcupines.

When he's getting close to the end of my sight-line, I call, "far enough!" And he stops and waits for me to either call him back or to release him with an "OK" when I've closed the gap. I can't really tell you how he learned this... He just sort of figured it out on his own... Maybe because it is often (not always) folowed by a recall, which is often (not always) rewarded with food. So he stops to see what's up, before charging off again.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

mine grew up off leash but we only walk in areas without cars. Some times we run into bigger dogs but I just get them back and protect them. Most places we go you can see pretty far ahead. We spend a lot of time at my sisters where they are able to just play outside. They stay mostly by me.


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## jillnors2 (Apr 12, 2007)

Mine are off leash quite a bit.


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## RoutineAvocado (Feb 6, 2013)

Definitely no off leash for us. But we live in the city and she's too young to have a reliable recall. I doubt we'll ever have enough opportunity to practice off leash to do it well so it probably won't ever be something we can do.

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## jcbpaisley (Mar 6, 2013)

I am practicing off leash with her at work. It's a much bigger space than our apartment but with fewer distractions than the outside, and she can't run off too far or get out or into trouble. It's good to see that she mostly sticks by my side!

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## RosieW (Apr 27, 2013)

I take off Lola's leash when we are one door away from home, then say "go home". Oh my, the joy of this for her. She makes the run longer by dashing up and around the neighbor's front yard, then runs to the front door. I live on a cul de sac and feel safe doing this. The RLH time is much fun for her after being limited to remaining 4' from me.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

RosieW said:


> I take off Lola's leash when we are one door away from home, then say "go home". Oh my, the joy of this for her. She makes the run longer by dashing up and around the neighbor's front yard, then runs to the front door. I live on a cul de sac and feel safe doing this. The RLH time is much fun for her after being limited to remaining 4' from me.


This may be fun for her, and seem cute to you, but you are teaching her something very dangerous. You are teaching her to run AWAY from you, and toward a specific building. What if she were to get loose in a strange place? You want her instinct to ALWAYS to be to run toward you. I know you say you live on a cul de sac, but What if the leash broke, or a loud noise caused her to slip her collar or harness (they CAN get out of harnesses too, under the right, really scary, conditions) when you are farther than home? Instead of coming back to you, you are teaching her that it's safe to run home. What happens when she crosses a street, running full speed, to get back to your cul de sac?

I'm sorry, but I just see so many ways this can go horribly wrong. If your cul de sac is safe, and pretty car free, this is a PERFECT place for you to be teaching her a strong recall, so that she can be safely outdoors with you there, and do RLH, supervised but off leash, any time the two of you want!


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

*Off leash yea or nay*



RosieW said:


> I take off Lola's leash when we are one door away from home, then say "go home". Oh my, the joy of this for her. She makes the run longer by dashing up and around the neighbor's front yard, then runs to the front door. I live on a cul de sac and feel safe doing this. The RLH time is much fun for her after being limited to remaining 4' from me.


I do the same thing with Tyler. Although we live on a main street, we have a corner lot and the side street is a cul-de-sac. When we are returning home from a walk down the street, I take off his leash and off he goes, RLH down the street and into the driveway. When I enter the driveway, he is waiting on the farmer's porch watching for me. It's really cute to watch and he enjoys it. For a 16 year old with weakness in his hind quarters, he can really run. it amazes me. I can also let him off leash on the beach. He's either by my side or behind me these days.


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

krandall said:


> This may be fun for her, and seem cute to you, but you are teaching her something very dangerous. You are teaching her to run AWAY from you, and toward a specific building. What if she were to get loose in a strange place? You want her instinct to ALWAYS to be to run toward you. I know you say you live on a cul de sac, but What if the leash broke, or a loud noise caused her to slip her collar or harness (they CAN get out of harnesses too, under the right, really scary, conditions) when you are farther than home? Instead of coming back to you, you are teaching her that it's safe to run home. What happens when she crosses a street, running full speed, to get back to your cul de sac?
> 
> I'm sorry, but I just see so many ways this can go horribly wrong. If your cul de sac is safe, and pretty car free, this is a PERFECT place for you to be teaching her a strong recall, so that she can be safely outdoors with you there, and do RLH, supervised but off leash, any time the two of you want!


Goodness, I am SO with Karen on this. In the UK, anyway, it is illegal to have a dog off leash on a public street/sidewalk, thank goodness, cul de sac or otherwise; not that people necessarily stick to the law, of course. There are two dogs in our road in the middle of Oxford who routinely hurtle out of their front door, down steps and out onto the sidewalk, barking and running like crazy to and fro, sometimes into the road itself; it's an accident waiting to happen, and terrorises my dogs, both of whom shrink back when they see these dogs - not sure what they are, possibly Wheaten terriers. Anyway. I think Karen is totally right, that to teach a dog to run away from you, even if in these particular circumstances it is towards their own home, is inviting trouble elsewhere and in other circumstances.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I was letting mine off leash when we came to my yard. One day the sister's saw a cat and chased it. They don't mind me as far as a recall and stopping what their doing.The cat was faster then them and they only ventured into my neighbors yard. Now they stay on the leash threw the front door. I am lucky my new city home has a blocked off old road only about a 5 min walk away. They get to do there running safely their. Another place that's safe is tennis courts or park ball fields during off season.I only say that because mine really do stay close to me.


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

Suzi said:


> I was letting mine off leash when we came to my yard. One day the sister's saw a cat and chased it. They don't mind me as far as a recall and stopping what their doing.The cat was faster then them and they only ventured into my neighbors yard. Now they stay on the leash threw the front door. I am lucky my new city home has a blocked off old road only about a 5 min walk away. They get to do there running safely their. Another place that's safe is tennis courts or park ball fields during off season.I only say that because mine really do stay close to me.


That's exactly the point, isn't it - you just don't know what might happen in the way of a major distraction - a cat, a squirrel, a car backfiring....the list could go on and on. It really doesn't take a massive amount of imagination to picture a scenario when a dog off-leash on a public sidewalk could find itself in a dire situation, or cause a dire situation to happen such as a car swerving to avoid it and hitting another dog/child/lamp post. Horribly dangerous. Thanks goodness yours were ok, Suzi.


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## Alcibides (Feb 14, 2012)

In the city, Lucky is always on a 6 ft lead wrapped round my hand, so no more than 3 feet away. He is NEVER off lead in the city. In the country we use a long lead (I have ten, 20, and even a 50 foot lead) and when we are for sure not near cars, we walk with a loose lead or even a lead lying on the ground behind him (the light cotton ones are best). Honestly, he seems to enjoy the connection the lead suggests (he is always happy to have a lead) even when it's on the ground, but also enjoys the independence (picks up his speed does the jaunty head in the air thing) when I drop the lead and let him have a sense of independence. He's always pretty close so friends say "Why not just have him off lead?" but there's always that time when he took off in the woods etc. etc. and with a long lead I can at least stop him if he's decided not to follow my command (which he does 7 out of 10 times reliably-but it only takes one not listen to do him in). We really enjoy "drag a lead" independence even if it's not the real thing-it's safe and easy.


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

I've just come home from a training class. These classes take place outdoors and in a huge barn. The barn space is massive, and we take turns in using that space just for our own dog to do what we each particularly want to work on there. This is an adult dog class to which I take my puppy because Kay Laurence, who runs them, believes as do I that adult dogs teach puppies far, far more than is ever learnt in a group of puppies at puppy class. I cannot tell you how wonderful these grown-ups groups are; this is where my once timid-with-large-dogs puppy made friends with the Leonberger, to whom she is now totally devoted. Anyway, Kay teaches what she calls 'barn walking'; it's a safe environment in which to let your dog/puppy off lead and work with it in a very large space where you can see just how good your connection with your dog really is. Cuba is still too young to do much more than hurtle about smelling all the delicious smells everywhere, clocking in with me from time to time and beginning to learn that it's fun if she walks with me rather than away from me; Kay teaches one to behave like the mother dog would on a walk: allow the pup some freedom; investigate with it the things it finds interesting; lead it on and show it other interesting things, stop it from thinking it is in charge and leading her/you....and all the time, as an owner, you are learning what your puppy is capable of, how tuned in to you it is (or isn't), how to capture its attention, and how to build trust. That was just one aspect of class tonight, there were others irrelevant to this thread, but the walking bit taught me so much.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lalla said:


> I've just come home from a training class. These classes take place outdoors and in a huge barn. The barn space is massive, and we take turns in using that space just for our own dog to do what we each particularly want to work on there. This is an adult dog class to which I take my puppy because Kay Laurence, who runs them, believes as do I that adult dogs teach puppies far, far more than is ever learnt in a group of puppies at puppy class. I cannot tell you how wonderful these grown-ups groups are; this is where my once timid-with-large-dogs puppy made friends with the Leonberger, to whom she is now totally devoted. Anyway, Kay teaches what she calls 'barn walking'; it's a safe environment in which to let your dog/puppy off lead and work with it in a very large space where you can see just how good your connection with your dog really is. Cuba is still too young to do much more than hurtle about smelling all the delicious smells everywhere, clocking in with me from time to time and beginning to learn that it's fun if she walks with me rather than away from me; Kay teaches one to behave like the mother dog would on a walk: allow the pup some freedom; investigate with it the things it finds interesting; lead it on and show it other interesting things, stop it from thinking it is in charge and leading her/you....and all the time, as an owner, you are learning what your puppy is capable of, how tuned in to you it is (or isn't), how to capture its attention, and how to build trust. That was just one aspect of class tonight, there were others irrelevant to this thread, but the walking bit taught me so much.


I thought you'd be interested to hear that one of the obedience instructors I work with just told me today that she will be attending a workshop with Kay Laurence at the end of Oct., here in the U.S. Small world, eh?


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## Lalla (Jul 30, 2013)

krandall said:


> I thought you'd be interested to hear that one of the obedience instructors I work with just told me today that she will be attending a workshop with Kay Laurence at the end of Oct., here in the U.S. Small world, eh?


Oh, she is in for SUCH a treat, Karen! When I first went to Kay, years ago with Pamba (my first Coton) she welcomed me to the class and looked down at this small fluffball and sort of sighed in despair - Kay breeds border collies and Gordon setters, this is a BIG dog lady! - but then fairly soon afterwards realised that Pamba was really clever, really fast to learn, brilliant at shaping..etc. I was frightened of Kay - she's a formidable person - and frightened of my own ignorance, but she has taught me so much. When Pamba got ill Kay would email me from time to time just to see how she was, and to invite her to sit in on any class or workshop if I felt she'd be up to it; Kay was unbelievably kind. And now, with Cuba, I'm learning again just how wonderful it is to work with her. She still scares me - she is SO knowledgeable, and tough!! But wonderful. Her books are really well written and take clicker training way beyond the usual level. Her scientific knowledge is huge, but she uses it deftly, never forgetting the dog and the owner and all the other things that go into building that relationship. Inspirational.


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## jcbpaisley (Mar 6, 2013)

We got to try Diva off lead when we were visiting my grandmother on her farm - wide open fields and woods far from any road. She really impressed me! She never strayed and seemed to understand that we were all walking as a group even though she was off lead. This was a very distracting environment with bunnies, deer, butterflies, and all kinds of exciting stuff, but she was great. On the way home she would sometimes lead the way back, but never far in front of us and she came when called.


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