# So, how do I choose NOW?



## Xtina88 (Oct 5, 2009)

So I think you can all agree that there are probably more bad breeders/puppy mills disguised as breeders out there than good ones. However, I'm sure you can all agree that there are several good ones out theres as well. Since being on this forum, I have gotten so many good referalls for awesome breeders out there (several of them on this forum) and now I'm just wondering how to pick one with so many good options. Is it alright to choose one based on price at this point...? By the way, I really haven't narrowed down my choices by any means so I'm still totally open to breeder suggestions!


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

What $ range are you finding? There really should not be that much of a price gap between the reputable breeders. When are you going to take the plunge? 

Ryan


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## Xtina88 (Oct 5, 2009)

Beamer said:


> What $ range are you finding? There really should not be that much of a price gap between the reputable breeders. When are you going to take the plunge?
> 
> Ryan


I think I'm willing to spend up to $2000... I'm setting a goal to be ready and mentally prepared by this spring/summer - sometime between March and June. So excited!!!


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## Xtina88 (Oct 5, 2009)

Xtina88 said:


> I think I'm willing to spend up to $2000... I'm setting a goal to be ready and mentally prepared by this spring/summer - sometime between March and June. So excited!!!


Sorry I just realized that I didn't really answer your question about the price range I'm finding. Granted, I haven't really gotten into pricing questions with a lot of the breeders yet... the range that I've found so far goes anywhere from $1800 to $2400. What price sounds right??? There will also be a difference in cost depending on where my breeder is located because I will most likely have the breeder personally fly my pup out to me.


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## LuckyOne (Sep 3, 2009)

I always wondered what the "normal" price range is for a pet and not a show pup. Should each pup in a litter be priced the same?


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Prices do vary, even between reputable breeders that do the health testing, show and have either 1 litter a year or 4 or 5. I think $1500-$2000 is reasonable, again based on dealing with a breeder that does all they can to make the puppies as healthy as can be, socialized and works well with the puppy owners. 

From my own experiences, I'd choose based on how well I can communicate with the breeders, on whether I can count on them for long-term support, how involved they want to be in my life as one of their puppy owners. After that, I'd choose based on type/personality of dogs, sex and maybe coloring. That's just me.  If all that was a good fit, then I'd have no problem spending more on the puppy.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I agree with Marj. If the price of the dog from each reputable breeder is within a couple of hundred dollars of each other, choose based upon your connection with the breeder. If you are new to dogs, how receptive will he or she be to lots of questions and requests for help. Will he or she respond quickly and with enthusiasm or act like you are bothering him or her. 

If everything is truly equal among the breeders you are looking at, there's nothing wrong with choosing by price. If you can save $200 that's $200 that can go towards toys, bedding, food, etc for your puppy!


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

mckennasedona said:


> I agree with Marj. If the price of the dog from each reputable breeder is within a couple of hundred dollars of each other, choose based upon your connection with the breeder. *If you are new to dogs, how receptive will he or she be to lots of questions and requests for help. Will he or she respond quickly and with enthusiasm or act like you are bothering him or her. *
> If everything is truly equal among the breeders you are looking at, there's nothing wrong with choosing by price. If you can save $200 that's $200 that can go towards toys, bedding, food, etc for your puppy!


Emphasis mine. I got Benji and Lizzie from a well-reputable, well-regarded breeder in the Havanese community. I was a new puppy owner and without my breeder's patient, considerate and ever giving big heart, it would not have been an enjoyable adoption. The connection with the breeder and her continued, support and guidance has made it a success and joy. She is available to her puppy owners anytime they need her and willingly provides her help and guidance. Such involvement and continued support is appreciated by all her puppy owners.

Good luck!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

From what I saw when I was looking for our puppy last spring, the price range hasn't changed much. $600 might seem like a large difference between prices, but if you amortize it over the potential lifetime of the puppy, it's not very much at all. We took price out of the equation when choosing which breeder to go with. (and as it happened, the breeder we chose was toward the lower end, not the higher end)

When choosing a breeder among GOOD breeders, I think there are a few questions you want to ask yourself:

1. Do I feel like I have a good rapport with the breeder? Some breeders that I talked to, that do all the right testing, and seem to run quality operations, were a little cold and off-putting. I wanted a breeder I felt I could turn to with questions when I needed to. Relationship was very important to me.

2. Will the breeder have pups available when you want to bring yours home? I did not feel ready to commit a deposit to someone who had a long waiting list for puppies that"might" be born sometime in the distant future. There are websites that make it seem that that's the only way to get a quality puppy... I guarantee you, not all breeders work that way. That's not to say that you can expect to bring a puppy home next week. (though sometimes, even that can happen) But I found several breeders who had a litter on the ground and another on the way within the time-frame I was hoping to bring a pup home.

3. Do you have a strong preference in terms of sex and/or color? (I didn't) If so, how likely is it that you'll get the combo you want in the up-coming litter? Because I didn't care whether I got a male or female, I had a pretty good choice of puppies... the Kings had a waiting list for girls, and got a litter of 5 boys!<g>

4. Does the breeder insist on picking the puppy "for you", or will you have some choice? While I was very willing to accept guidance from our breeder in terms of her knowledge of the pups' personalities, I was also bringing a trainer with me to do temperament testing. We ended up leaving with a different pup than we had thought before we arrived. Both pups were beautiful (in fact, looks-wise, they were nearly identical) I had told the breeder that I wanted a puppy not only as a pet, but also to do obedience and agility work with. The pup she had picked for me was fearless and adventuresome, good things for and agility dog. But Kodi, though not quite as bold as the other pup, was certainly not timid, and was extremely people-oriented with fabulous eye contact. In the end, we all agreed that Kodi was the better fit for my personality/training style. I liked that our breeder was willing to work with me, rather than just say, "this is the best puppy for you". The breeders have a LOT of experience, but ultimately, it is the buyer who has to live and work with the pup.

All the puppies in Kodi's litter were wonderful pups, but, for instance, I would NOT have finalized the purchase on a timid or clingy pup, even if that were the only pup available to me at that time. Other people on this forum say that they LOVE their "velcro pups", so for them, a pup with that personality might be a fine choice.

5. How far away are they, and what will it cost to drive or fly to pick up my puppy?


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## Sanya Sanders (Oct 22, 2009)

We got our Yogi for $1350, he was also microchipped (and had his first shots, all that stuff). He had all the papers and the litter registered with the Canadian Kennel society. He had a wonderful temperament when we brought him home, very friendly, outgoing and happy, not timid or shy. No problems with the poop or health issues otherwise. He bonded to us very quickly (and we to him even faster!  

If you are in Canada I can send you some more info. I would defintely recommed this breeder.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

I agree with what other's are advising, you will know if one breeder makes you feel more comfortable than another. The other main thing I would look at is the temperament of the parent's and if possible any offspring they already have.

Now considering you are looking at the same time frame I am I should warn you I will:fencing: for the right puppy :wink:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Leeann is evil-so watch out!

The only thing I haven't seen mentioned here is checking parents and breeders out on offa.org before even considering a puppy for them. At least every other week it seems there has been someone who has gotten a puppy from what I would call a backyard breeder and it has had major health problems- so sad. I wish no new owner would have to go through that. Also it easily doubles the cost of your puppy. For a lot less money, if you do the research upfront, your puppy can come from a pedigree of health tested family- parents and grandparents, etc. Not that is going to guarantee nothing happens down the road, but why not look for a breeder that is trying to prevent it. And if you are paying the price, make sure the health testing is there!


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## Xtina88 (Oct 5, 2009)

Leeann said:


> I agree with what other's are advising, you will know if one breeder makes you feel more comfortable than another. The other main thing I would look at is the temperament of the parent's and if possible any offspring they already have.
> 
> Now considering you are looking at the same time frame I am I should warn you I will:fencing: for the right puppy :wink:


But, but, but you already have furbabiiiiieeees!:Cry: Thanks for all of the advice everyone. Hopefully I can narrow it down a bit further from these suggestions. Comfort level with the breeder is definitely important...


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## Kathy Berrena (Feb 24, 2008)

Leeann,

Didn't know you are going to be adding to your clan, good for you! 

Kathy

:cheer2::cheer2:


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## Xtina88 (Oct 5, 2009)

Kathy Berrena said:


> Leeann,
> 
> Didn't know you are going to be adding to your clan, good for you!
> 
> ...


She's not... *I* AM!!! :boxing:


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## Kathy Berrena (Feb 24, 2008)

*Breeders*

Always go with a breeder that does the recommended Havanese health testing. Most of us breeders will help you find a pup even if they do not have anything or what you are looking for. Breeders that show conformation will hold pups a little longer to let them grow into themselves. The initial price of the pup may be a little higher but, you as the buyer, are investing money, time and lots of love in your new bundle of joy. It is not worth the risk to find out a couple of years down the road your four legged loved one is striken with a genetic issue that you hope and pray you can address medically. Not all genitic issues can be fixed..... Do your homework, check out both parents' health testing and get ready to fall in love with this wonderful breed! Talk to breeders locally to yourself as local support is WONDERFUL! Most breeders want to stay intouch with their pup's owners.

Good luck,

Kathy
Bella, Ethel & Lucy

PS: there are a number of good Havanese books you should read as they will provide valuable information as well as answers to a lot of your questions.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Xtina88 said:


> But, but, but you already have furbabiiiiieeees!:Cry: Thanks for all of the advice everyone. Hopefully I can narrow it down a bit further from these suggestions. Comfort level with the breeder is definitely important...


I know I suffer from MHS, you can't have just one lol.

Kathy, we have wanted another for almost a year now but held off because of my MIL's health, I knew things would get crazy this year and it has.


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## Kathy Berrena (Feb 24, 2008)

Leeann,

I hope your MIL's health gets better and stabilizes. :amen:

Kathy


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## Xtina88 (Oct 5, 2009)

Kathy Berrena said:


> Always go with a breeder that does the recommended Havanese health testing. Most of us breeders will help you find a pup even if they do not have anything or what you are looking for. Breeders that show conformation will hold pups a little longer to let them grow into themselves. The initial price of the pup may be a little higher but, you as the buyer, are investing money, time and lots of love in your new bundle of joy. It is not worth the risk to find out a couple of years down the road your four legged loved one is striken with a genetic issue that you hope and pray you can address medically. Not all genitic issues can be fixed..... Do your homework, check out both parents' health testing and get ready to fall in love with this wonderful breed! Talk to breeders locally to yourself as local support is WONDERFUL! Most breeders want to stay intouch with their pup's owners.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> ...


Which books are best? I've already read several of puppy and training books, but it's definitely time to start getting into more Havanese-specific reading. I've only got like six months and soooo much to do! *overwhelmed*


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## Kathy Berrena (Feb 24, 2008)

I have the following Havanese breed related books:

Havanese A complete and reliable handbook by Dorothy Goodale ISBN 0-7938-0797-2
The Joyous Havanese by Kathryn Braund ISBN 0-9720585-2-4
The Havanese by Diane Klumb with Joanne Baldwin DVM ISBN 1-4196-4280-4
Havanese A Complete Pet Owner's Manual by Nikki Riggsbee published by Barron's you can pick this up at PetSmart (I would pass on it, it is more of a generic puppy book)

I like the first three and would pass on the fourth. Start out with one, don't overwhelm yourself. The Canadian Havanese Club has a book specifically written on grooming that I will add to my collection, it around $25. I look for my books on www.amazon.com and am not opposed to buying "like new" used books. I have other breeding and showing specific books and if you are intrested in them later on let me know. You could also check out your library and review before you buy. I do refer back to them from time to time.

Happy reading.

Kathy


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Leeann said:


> I know I suffer from MHS, you can't have just one lol.


Leeann, Don't you mean you can't Hav just two? There's gonna be a puppy near by!!!!:cheer2::cheer2:

Do what I say not what I do.... I wanted a puppy so badly the first time...all sanity went out the window. lots of red flags with Jasper. He has turned out OK and he is my heart dog but I think it is a lot easier if they come from good, known stock. And I am so envious of people with good, ongoing relationships with their breeders. I don't think you can go wrong if you do your homework, go with a breeder you like...and if they are close to you that is a huge plus.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Kathy Berrena said:


> I have the following Havanese breed related books:
> 
> Havanese A complete and reliable handbook by Dorothy Goodale ISBN 0-7938-0797-2
> The Joyous Havanese by Kathryn Braund ISBN 0-9720585-2-4
> ...


Kathy, do you know the new one from the Canadian Havanese Club? Is it "Nose to Tail" on grooming, or do they have another one?

By the way, Xtina88, "Nose to Tail" should be on every Hav owner's shelf, I think. Helps a lot with all points of grooming if you are not already educated on grooming the Hav. Easier than trial and error.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Xtina, in addition to the advice above, I will also speak as a breeder. Most of us don't mind if you are talking to several breeders at the same time (some do, so just be open that you are talking to several). You might as well see what it takes to get on the waiting list of the few that you really feel a connection and can trust. The first litter born may not have a puppy that fits what you desire (gender or coloring, although coloring shouldn't be that important) or there may not be enough puppies born to even grant you a puppy this time around. 

Do not put out any deposits until you find out if it is refundable and/or what that will give you. What if the next litter doesn't have a puppy that fits what you want?


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## lcy_pt (Aug 17, 2007)

marjrc said:


> Prices do vary, even between reputable breeders that do the health testing, show and have either 1 litter a year or 4 or 5. I think $1500-$2000 is reasonable, again based on dealing with a breeder that does all they can to make the puppies as healthy as can be, socialized and works well with the puppy owners.
> 
> From my own experiences, I'd choose based on how well I can communicate with the breeders, on whether I can count on them for long-term support, how involved they want to be in my life as one of their puppy owners. After that, I'd choose based on type/personality of dogs, sex and maybe coloring. That's just me.  If all that was a good fit, then I'd have no problem spending more on the puppy.


Oh, well said Marj...as usual. I 100% agree!

The amount may seem daunting at first, but a good breeder does not make any money. It's costly to run a good breeding program. Now factor in their time spent researching how they want to breed their line, the health care of the dam/puppies, health testing, socializing, screening potential puppy owners, etc. etc.

We as puppy owners don't see any of this work....except when we bring that sweet little baby home and start to reap the benefits of all the hard work put in by a good breeder. This is what makes it worthwhile to pay that amount of money. And if you have a great ongoing relationship with your breeder...well there is no price you can put on that!

Keep researching, talk to breeders, meet the breeders/environment/dogs/puppies, etc. if at all possible. Check to make sure they do the health testing they claim to. This is a long time commitment and it's never time wasted.

Best of luck in your search!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Amanda, I didn't mention the obvious health testing that should be first on the list when checking out potential breeders/puppies because I assumed it was already looked into. That is, that the breeders' dogs or previous litters were registered at www.offa.org But yes, that IS number 1 !

Sheri, I'm sure Kathy means the "Nose to Tail" book as I don't know of any other produced by the HFC. I agree with Kathy's book suggestions, esp. the first 3. Kathryn Bruand's and Diane Klumb's books were chock full of information on the Havanese.

Good points, Kimberly!


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