# liver problems



## blues_166 (Apr 9, 2007)

My havs recently were acting funny so i took them to the vet and found out that their liver enzyme levels were about 1300 and normal was about 100 does anyone have any idea what might cause this the vet is stumped. Please help my pups


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## CapotesMom (Apr 3, 2007)

do you think it could have something to do with the pet food recall? What sort of food are you feeding the lil guy?


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## blues_166 (Apr 9, 2007)

*pet food*

they are on a dry food only diet it is an Iams product but is not on there recall list.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I found this interesting site:

http://lbah.com/liver.htm

What are the ages? Were bile acids tested?


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## blues_166 (Apr 9, 2007)

i actually have 2 of them one's level is normal and the other is off the chart they eat the same food. The vet said he was going to keep him on antibiodics till they run its course then do a bile test and see what happens. they are about 2 1/2.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

this is scary......please keep us informed will you?


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

That is really scary!! I would call around to see if your STate has a vet clinic that is really high end & specializes in problems. We have one in Red Bank, NJ and if you any kind of high end problem, that the place to do. You could call around to other vets just to ask if anyone has encountered this before. 
Laurie


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I know I have gotten in trouble for asking this before but I will ask it again just for curiousity sake ..
Do you use any Swifter products to clean with . Do you use it on your floors or have you used the the dusters. ? What kind of cleaning products do you use in your home ? Do you have any pesticides sprayed around your homes .. for ants or other bugs . Here in the desert it is a must as we have scorpions but I try to keep it to a minimum and the dogs are not allowed in that area .. 
Do you have neighbors that might be irritated by their barking and might try to poison them .
Do you think your neighbors use toxic pesticides . ? 
What do you use on your lawn if you have a lawn .. as some of the lawn products are very toxic ..
Do you dogs get in the garage where there may be unsafe chemicals such as antifreeze .. 
What about toxic plants in the house - or the yard ? What detergent do you use to wash their bedding in .. 
There is a lot of antifreeze type products in shampoos as well - Check what shampoos you use on your dog .. 
Hope this is helpful - it might be some kind of toxic exposure ..
Keep us posted ..


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Unfortunately, I've learned more than I ever wanted to know about liver disease in dogs. Our precious prior Havanese died not too long ago from it at the age of 8. First of all, there could be different causes for the elevated enzymes. If it is from toxicity (drugs, pesticides, etc.), the liver CAN recover if the toxin is removed from the dog's environment. The liver has regenerative capacity, so that's good. However, there are numerous other causes such as hepatitis, bacterial infections, portosystemic shunts, etc. If your Havanese is still a puppy, I'd suspect a portosystemic shunt. Many shunts can be fixed by surgery. My havanese's only symptom was that she started drinking alot of water. I took her to the vet thinking maybe it was diabetes or Cushings, and she ran a blood test which showed elevated liver enzymes. Later on, I noticed a darker orange color to her urine, which meant she was spilling birirubin which was confirmed by a urinalysis.

The only definitive way to diagnose liver disease is a liver biopsy. The vet had a specialist come in to do it, guided by ultrasound. Unfortunately for my dog, she had a fibrotic liver which meant her disease was quite advanced. There are multiple medicines that can be used to help liver dogs, but first you need to find out the cause of the elevated enzymes. A bile acid test is a good first step, but a biopsy would eventually be needed for a diagnosis. I found an excellent liver specialist for my dog, and I would recommend that a specialist be consulted, since vets don't have alot of the latest info on liver disease. There are 2 natural liver supportive drugs, Sam-e and Milk Thistle that were added by the specialist to my dog's drug and diet regimen. They can be bought in canine form (Denosyl and Marin). Plus, there is a specific low protein, low fat diet the dog must be on to support the liver. 

Don't assume the worst. If the enzymes are elevated due to your dog taking a drug (such as prednisone or phenobarbitol), this can temporarily elevate the enzymes and your dog may recover fully. Or the elevated enzymes could be secondary to some other process such as Cushings. But I would urge you to not wait on a diagnosis, since you said your dog is "acting funny". One of the stages of liver disease is hepatic encepholopathy, which causes strange behavior. If you'd like, just PM me and I can give you alot of info that I gathered during my dog's illness.

I wish you the best with your Havanese!


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Maddie's Mom,
Thank you for sharing this information.Thank Goodness we have never had this experience,but I want to stay informed........


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Julije- After going through such a devastating loss, I am definitely going to get a yearly general lab test on our new Havanese. In the past, I've gotten lab tests only when my dog was sick or had symptoms of something. The lab can pick up kidney and liver abnormalties, early diabetes, etc. with one lab test. You can then start early medication or diet changes necessary to prolong their lives. My last breeder was so understanding of my concern with liver disease that she offered to do a lab test and bile acid test on Maddie before we purchased her. It certainly eased my mind. I think a general blood chemistry once a year or at least every other year is a small price to pay for the health of our little furbabies!


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## blues_166 (Apr 9, 2007)

There are some liver problems that are common in this breed and they should be checked out at an early age for these problems.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Blues_166, I am sorry to hear about your situation and I hope your pup recovers quickly. Maddies mom, has offered so much helpful advice here, and it goes to show that if we suspect anything we should get ALL testing done to elimate all causes. Please keep us posted.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

My vet did suggest doing a full blood test makeup when I first got Quince.I thought it was a good idea,so we had it done.I was afraid of the anesthea{sp} .Quincy will be a year before long(April 27)and will be back out to the vet for his checkup again.I think I will mention this if he doesn't bring it up.An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!


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## blues_166 (Apr 9, 2007)

I actually got mine almost as a rescue situation, the owners no longer had the time or desire for the dogs and wanted to find a loving home for them. At the time I was looking for either a Hav or a portugese water dog do to allergies in my family. I thought it was the perfect situation being gifted a brother and sister dog so sadly I dont have a baseline blood level or anything else in the history to go from.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

It's wonderful that you took them on and gave them a great home.That's really what counts.My Mom once told me "just enjoy him for the time you have him".I try to remember that instead of worrying or fretting about things I have no control over.Is there anymore news Blues 166?I sure hope it turns out to be nothing too serious for you and your pups....


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

blues_166 said:


> My havs recently were acting funny so i took them to the vet and found out that their liver enzyme levels were about 1300 and normal was about 100 does anyone have any idea what might cause this the vet is stumped. Please help my pups


Blues, welcome to the forum.

Did you make sure your Havs fasted for 12 hours prior to the test? Any protein consumed (or even eating cat feces) can elevate enzyme levels. It is very important to have them fast prior to the test. I assume you probably did, but it was the most obvious question to ask. By the way, I've never heard of a level as high as 1300. That is really high and it seems too high to even be a fasting issue, but I don't know enough to tell.

Having said that, Maddies Mom really is a wealth of information in this area. I learned so much from her in just a couple of weeks and I see that there is plenty more information out there that I still don't know.

I hope you get some good news.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Its always best to get a fasting blood sample. But Kimberly's right, an ALP of 1300 is way too high to be from non-fasting, assuming there's no lab error. If ONLY the ALP enzyme is that high and the other liver enzymes and blood values are normal, your vet/specialist will probably want to rule out Cushings. Dogs that have that also drink alot of water, need to go out alot, get thin skin, muscle weakness, etc. Cushings has a whole different treatment than liver disease. ALP can also rise from drug toxicity. If the bile acid test is normal and all other blood values except the ALP are normal, then a liver biopsy is probably not needed yet, as other causes need to be investigated first. That's why its so important to get a firm diagnosis.

I'm keeping positive thoughts for your Havanese and hope all turns out well!!


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## blues_166 (Apr 9, 2007)

They fasted proir to that test so it wasnt a food issue and he seems to be much more himself with each passing day. He was very much into our morning ritual today and dancing and chasing me around the house as i got ready so he seems much better. I will have a retest of the levels as soon as they finish their antibodics.


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## blues_166 (Apr 9, 2007)

the boy dog has been on antidiodics for about a 2 months now, has had an ultra sound and the liver levels are returning slowly to normal. he is also on a liver stimulating drug but seems to be doing well


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

That is great news! So nice to have you back  How is your other pup? Keep us posted on their progress


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

It is good to read the return of normal levels.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Glad to hear he's doing better. I hope it continues!


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm so glad the liver enzymes are returning to normal. Did they ever find out why they were so high?


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Glad to hear there is improvment. We hope all is well with the other Hav as well.


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