# So Angry and Frustrated!



## KittehKat (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm sure, by now, most of you are aware of the ongoing problems I've had with my poor little Grover. 

I've had a bazillion steps in the right directions, and I've even been able to take Grover off-leash with excellent recall. He was rarely having accidents in the house, and I was starting to be able to understand the difference between his "I need to go outside" bark and his "hey, you, pay attention to me" bark. He has made HUGE improvements with my DH, also - he even went so far as to bring his bone up onto the couch DH was sitting on (while I was on a totally different piece of furniture) today! And they've been playing together and he's been warming up a lot to my daughter, and everything's been going soooo well...

Until some jackass decided to NOT take care of his dog. 

I live in an area that is kind of like two parallel streets intersection two other parallel streets with a playground in the middle of the intersection (weird, I know, but that's really how it is lol). Across the two streets, there is a mother dog (I believe her name is Shiloh) and she has three puppies. Most of the dogs around here are left outside all the time, tied up on various-lenghted leads. When we first arrived, the mother was tied but the puppies were not, and were often wandering around unattended while their mother could do nothing about it. Finally they made her a pen, so that the three (now quite large) puppies are confined in the same place with their mama. That's all great, right? I thought so too... 

Until yesterday, when I was giving Grover some special off-leash time after the curfew buzzer went and all the kids were inside (I try not to let him off-lead with a bunch of kids around, as they all run at him and freak him out and I want it to be a positive experience). Anyhow, I see this mama dog walking up towards her house, away from the water, with a half-dried (obviously stolen from someone's porch) fish in her mouth. I look over to see where Grover is, and of course he's coming up towards me right at that moment. The mama dog sees him, he sees her, and he kind of holds his ground for a second. I tell him "Grover, come here" and of course get totally ignored because this is a big first. He lets out this little "hey!" ruff and this female dog totally gets all aggressive stance and starts coming VERY quickly towards my dog. I called him again and he was too freaked out by this point to listen. I tried to grab him, but he's a chicken to begin with and this dog was being SUPER fast and SUPER scary looking, and he'd already bolted. He ran all the way around my house with her right on his butt, and I'm pretty sure she stepped on him or something similar, because I heard a very loud Grover-squeak-bark and saw him rip around the corner even faster with her nose a quarter inch from his backend. 

I yelled at this other dog, and she actually backed down and I told her to get away and go home. She could tell I meant business, apparently, because she did leave, and I went to find Grover - who had started as though to make another turn around the house. I found him (thank GOD) in the porch, trembling.

After that incident, I made sure to take him out on leash, just in case. I figured the mother dog had just gotten loose somehow and it wouldn't be a further problem. I took him out on leash the rest of the day, just to be on the safe side, and everything seemed fine. Well, today I was out and this mother dog was in her pen, so I thought "great, I can let Grover have some off-leash time to show him it's okay!" and brought him out. He was very nervous, and kept glancing over at the pen. I was keeping an eye out, too, and then, TO MY SURPRISE, I saw this mama dog see Grover, and HOP OVER THE WALL OF HER PEN! She immediately started coming towards my dog, so I grabbed him and came in the house. 

Ever since it's been a nightmare. He doesn't want to go outside, even on leash. He's been having all kinds of accidents in the house, and even when I DO take him outside I have to practically drag him - or resort to carrying him - and he's so focused on getting back into the house that he won't do his business! He even copped a squat RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME on one of his 'bedtime' blankets, which is unheard of for him, this afternoon.

I am soooo incredibly angry right now. I've worked so hard to get my poor little dog to be less of a chicken, and now I can't even get him to go outside! I resorted, tonight, to running up the street a bit, out of sight of the pen, and he finally went pee outside, but immediately bee-lined for the house. I am so frustrated, because at this point I don't know what to do. I can't control someone else's dog, and our front door/porch is in immediate line-of-sight with the pen the mama dog is in. I can't have my dog peeing in the house all the time - though I do have plans to pee-pad train him for winter, but this is ridiciulous! 

If anyone has any training ideas or hints that will get my poor timid little dude to do his business outside, PLEASE tell me. I'm at my wit's end. And the worst part is I just don't know if this dog is going to come after him again, so it's not like I can say "it's okay, Grover" and even know it's the truth. Should I just get the pee-pad training thing over with and let him be an inside-only dog? He loves (loved?) it outside, I'm so sad that this is ruining his fun... especially because he was making so many other progressions with being out, like not being afraid of the kids and even wanting to play! 

I'm sorry this is a huge crazy rant... if you made it this far, thanks in advance.


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

Wow- yeah that's a problem.
We live in a subdivision that has alot of big houses, but are close together and we do not have very big yards, and MOST of them are not fenced in. So we have a community pool and a few parks that everyone uses, and sometimes it's like people really think it's THEIR pool or park! I NEVER I repeat NEVER let Oliver off of his leash when we are in our neighborhood. It seems like everyone has at least 1 dog, so I just don't think it's a good idea (not to mention the fact that a hav is 1/2 the size or smaller than most other dogs!) 
But some people just let their's off leash and of course, the dog off the leash will come running up to the leashed dog, who then feels incredibly threatened and defensive. 
About two months ago, we were walking home from the park (Oliver on leash) and a German Shephered (not on a leash and btw Bubba was his name-do you get the picture?) comes running up to Oliver and I kid you not picks Oliver up by the harness! I screamed! Bubba goes racing up his driveway, holding Oliver and pulling me, who is still holding the leash, of course! Bubba's mom screamed at him to let Oliver down, which he did and to my surprise, Oliver stayed next to him and just started barking like a madman! The woman apologized a million times and I fought the urge to say "Put him on a leash next time!" 
It all happened so fast I really couldn't think! I checked Oliver out and no blood, no boo-boos, nothing. It's like bubba knew exactly where to pick him up! Now I realize German Shepherds can be loving, sweet dogs, but come on! That's a big dog!
Well, guess what? The next day- IT HAPPENED AGAIN!
This time, my daughter was walking Oliver and Bubba came racing toward them (same location, near his house) and she was able to turn around and run back to our house and through our backyard up to the back door (the one Oliver uses to pee and poo poo) 
So you can imagine what happened next. Oliver stopped going out the back door.
He didn't actually poop in the house, but would just sit and bark and then whimper if I put him outside. Well, poo-poo in the front yard is a major no-no to my perfectionist hubby so I had an idea- I took him out the garage and to the side of the house(out of Bubba's sight) and he went! So each time, I just took him further and further down the side of the house and ended up in the backyard (it took about 2 weeks to make it back there I would say, also carrying him in through the back door) and of course, I had to go back to stupid-potty-treat-rewarding to get him to do it, but he will go out the back door now. 
We don't walk Bubba's way anymore, which is so unfair and ticks me off, but at least for now, Oliver's okay.
My advice to you would be- dont take him off leash anymore at that park especially anywhere near mommadoggie. Dogs can't tell us if they feel danger and they want to "protect" us, too. 
Try the slowly inching out the door, maybe moving the already pooped on bedtime blankie slowly out the door with it. I wouldn't wash it and put it back to bed with him, that may make him think- "good, I can poop on it and then it's all cozy again!" 
I don't know- just a suggestion. 
But I would CERTAINLY keep him on leash and only give him "off-leash time" in a for sure safe place.


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## Pooch (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. That is frustrating.

The trainer I've been working with has a rule. If you are confident enough that you would give up your next pay cheque that your dog will come to you immediately, the first time you call his/her name, you're ready to try off leash. I'm constantly working with Fionn on his recall, but I know I am still not close to letting him off leash outside. At 4 1/2 months he still gets too distracted when he's outdoors so he stays on leash at all times.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I take it there is no leash law? Have you talked to the owners of the mother dog? Do they know what's going on? 

I think Grover is completely justified in not wanting to go out there with her loose. One snap and she could kill him. If you are going to want him to use pee pads in the winter, I wouldn't be putting off introducing them now anyway. We have heard from a number of forum members that it's very hard to get a dog to accept an indoor potty spot once they are convinced that the ONLY acceptable place to go is outside. It's usually easier to go the other way... from an indoor potty option to outdoors. (most dogs are naturally willing to go outdoors) 

Maybe it's not a "forever" thing... My guess is that when these puppies are grown, the owners will probably put the mom dog back on her tether. But in the mean time, keeping Grover safe is the biggest issue, and if you can't get the other owners to keep her confined, you're going to have to keep Grover away from her, even if it means that he has to be a house dog for now.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I am so so sorry. This is a sucky, sucky situation. I do not think it is for ever though...Grover is still very young... and it is going to take more than a few weeks to get him totally on board with all you are teaching...and once he is on board...I believe he will also have more confidence.... 

I couldn't agree with Karen more about potty training. I had planned on both my boys being trained to be indoor so we could leave them longer if we had to... we made a little room in our garage that they could access with a doggy door...nice, private. out of the way... my boys were both perfectly trained... first Jasper, then Cash, so much so I remember one time when Jasper was a puppy, we were playing outside and Jas scratched on the door to go in and Pee!!! We let him, cause we really wanted to re-inforce the inside potty... finally they realized while going on walks that it was ok to go outside too. But sure enough first Jasper, then Cash, as soon as they were old enough to hold it (around 1 year old each) it was their preference to do so rather than use the room. But even still, they would go use it if we were having people over and couldn't get our attention. The room however is now closed off as they haven't used it in 3 years. But indoors really helped through puppydom. And in your situation with brutal winters I would really focus on nothing but the pee pad if that is your intent for winters. I think it takes at least 5 months to imprint the pee pad in their minds...and until that time I would not worry about outdoors... still take grover out and let him pee and poop...but that is no cause to party...indoors is treat and party time. 

I Imagine it is very hard to have a small sensitive dog in an area with a lot of big dogs off leash. Stay strong and on target with Grover and try not to let this incident derail you.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I have never been to Alaska; but my husband spent 6 months up there many years ago. He said that it gets so cold that your breath freezes and frost gets in your nose. I can't imagine letting a havanese which is supposed to be a tropical dog out in that kind of weather. My Rosie gets cold inside in the air conditioner and gets under the cover at night because we sleep with the house so cold in the winter. Rosie uses the pee pads and I take her outside also. But I leave them in place and if I am not paying attention or if I leave her in the house she has a place to go. And on rainy days, I don't even think about taking her out. Wet long haired dogs with muddy feet are no fun. Better get the pee pads and put down where you dog has gone in the house--use lots of them. Then treat and praise when he goes on one. You might have to actually wipe a pee spot with the pee pad to get his scent on the pad. Good Luck. By the way Rosie is over two years old and is never off leash anywhere other than my fenced back yard. It is not only other dogs it is traffic. She can RLH out of sight before I could react.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm sorry that happened. Maybe you could hold your dog and walk pass the mother dog and get father away for your walk. I would find out also if the owners can tie her up . A x pin out side works good to put your dog in maybe it could be at the back end of your house. Even chicken wire will work. My friend trained her dog that way. She carried him to the x pin and waited tell he did his business. I hope things get better.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

If only everyone would follow basic rules things would be so much eaiser. Gover will get over this (you might not), it will take time and patience. My shy girl Misty was attacked by a clumber during the CGC test (I had been working for months on her shyness) it took 8 weeks to get her so she would turn her back on other dogs and do a stay. Everyone in my class thought I was so calm and had such a good attitude, it may have seemed that way but, I really had no choice if I wanted to do the best for my girl and getting mad would not make it better (since it was an AKC event the owner was heavly penalized). Eight weeks was not that much time and I have a very strong stay. Just hang in there, you are lucky that your dog is young, they get over things quicker.


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## andra (Aug 23, 2010)

I am so sorry that you and Grover had to experience that  I agree with everyone else that, with time and patience and guidance from you, Grover can move past this.

My one year old is trained on potty pads and to go outside. When I brought her home as a puppy, we had two back to back blizzards that were record making. Basically the whole area ended up shutting down for over a month and then conditions were hazardous due to massive snow mounds and no sidewalks and the chemicals used to melt snow. So, out of necessity, I trained her on a potty pad, which she had some exposure to prior to coming home with us. At this time, she goes mainly outside but also uses the pad inside.

Good luck to you. BTW, I love Grover's avatar picture. What a cutie pie


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

I am so sorry about poor Grover's (and your) experience. Is there anyway that you can avoid the house with the dog? I have a feeling that dogs are viewed differently where you live-not part of the family like our little dogs. I hope the two of you can get over this as he probably only has a couple of months out of the year that he can enjoy the outside.


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## Lizzie'sMom (Oct 13, 2010)

@tcollins-WOW that must have been scary having Oliver picked up and carried away TWICE. Hopefully, Bubba's parents will start putting him on a leash since they have seen him do this.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Sorry to hear this. I don't like blaming you when the other owner is to blame, but Grover cannot be left loose unless in a securely fenced area. He is not anywhere near reliable on recall yet. You definitely have to talk to your neighbour. This dog can't be allowed to run loose. These scares can do a number on a puppy. You just have to take things very slowly. Once this dog is secure in her own yard you have to slowly do walks with Grover at a large distance from their yard and SLOOOOOWLY get closer to the dogs yard. You have to listen to Grover's body language. At any point ,he balks or lowers his tail , you're too close. This process might take a month or longer. But Grover dictates the time. I don't want to scare you , but be careful with Northern breed dogs. They are high on the list of dogs that exhibit predatory drift. The worst thing a small dog can do is run in fear from these sort of dogs. They are triggered to kill in instances like this. Look up my older post on Predatory Drift. Sorry to tell you this but you have to be aware of it. Huskies ,Malamutes , Norwegian Elk hounds and the like are in this category for high risk. Work on the pads for now. But don't force him outside. Lure him as much as you can. Patience is the name of the game now. Keep us posted.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

A trainer I know well likes this method for housetraining. 

"Get an 
ex-pen and set it up on a tarpaulin, in a location where you spend lots 
of time in your home. In the ex-pen, put a crate with a comfy bed in 
it, and if possible, put the crate up so that it is a few inches off the 
floor. Also make a bed for him that is a few inches off the floor. You 
are putting beds higher because dogs often like to sleep higher than 
their surroundings and with dogs who are not housebroken as adults they 
will sometimes take the height as a salient criteria for not soiling a 
bed. Then on the floor, cover 100% with pee pads. When you cannot 
directly handle him, that is where he should be. Don't worry about 
urination and defecation in the ex-pen cause the whole thing is covered 
and on a protected surface. When he has been on this successfully for 
three weeks, take away a pee pad. If he is successful on this surface 
for three weeks, take away another pee pad. Continue in this way until 
he is chooses pee pads. I tell people that in dogs who missed the 
critical period for learning to eliminate outdoors, it takes between 8 
and ten months to retrain, but it can be done."

Although Grover is trained for outside already, you might still want to work on this method and hopefully it won't take as long as mentioned.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Dave you are so right about the Predatory instincts of the northern dogs. First off they are left to fend for themselves a lot of the time, so they will eat anything. When my DH was in Alaska, he brought home a puppy from the Champion Huskie of Alaska. This was late 70's. It cost a fortune at that time for him and papers to let him get on the airplane home (lots of shots, etc) He was a beautiful dog. I named him Justice for All. I spent a lot of time training him and ljust loving him. Then we moved to Paris, TN out in the country at first. Justice had a 100 acre farm to run in without bothering anyone or anything--we thought. He mated with the coyotes--no I didn't neuter him. There were curly tailed coyotes running loose. He wouldn't come back to the house. We would see him running at dusk along a ridge line with the coyotes following him. Someone dropped off tw little puppies (that happens in the rural area also). Justice saw the puppies and before we could stop him, he killed both of them. Then the neighbor called and said that he had taken down a calf. We finally caught him again and had him put down. All of this story is to warn you about your neighbors dogs.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Wow Lucile ,you've led an exciting life with dogs. We've had this discussion in both of the dog training clubs I've belonged to. And similar stories to yours have come up. Any breed is capable of it but generally it is larger dogs and the victims are smaller. Jean Donaldson has written about this. And it is San Francisco's SPCA policy not to let people rescue dogs to family's when there's a large discrepancy in size with existing dogs at home. We had an incident in town here where a Husky with one bite killed a Chihuahua standing in line at a Pet Smart.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Oh that's a horrible story about the Husky killing the Chihuahua in line at Petsmart. I'll be watching very carefully next time I'm at Petsmart with a dog.

And lucile, your story is scary too. Thanks for the warnings.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

luv3havs said:


> Oh that's a horrible story about the Husky killing the Chihuahua in line at Petsmart. I'll be watching very carefully next time I'm at Petsmart with a dog.
> 
> And lucile, your story is scary too. Thanks for the warnings.


Kodi always sits in the cart when we are in Petsmart.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Yeah Karen that's not a bad idea. If there's a lineup at the checkout I always keep Molly away from any other dogs as much as possible. A lot of dogs don't like another strange dog close like that and can react in a split second.

I don't want to get people paranoid about certain breeds, or big dogs in general, but you have to be aware and attentive at all times, while around other dogs.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

On the lighter side, the only time I've been bitten by a dog was years ago camping . Ran out of beer ,so I went around to camp sites, asking if I could buy a few brewskies. Came to a guy whose dog barked like hell at me. Dog finally calmed down , and was walking around loose and seemed fine. After about five minutes talking , I took my eye off the dog and he came up from behind me and bit me in the ass. Grade two bite. But the worst thing was that I went home from camping and my gluteus maximus was sore as hell the next day. Went to the doc and he made me go back to the campground to make sure the dog has his rabies shots. Being young stupid and half baked, I never even thought of doing that when I was up there. Moral of the story ,never turn your back on a strange dog , and don't forget to take enough beer with you.


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## KittehKat (Jul 26, 2011)

Okay, I am clearly feeling better because I am laughing - especially at Dave's last story LOL! 

Thank you, EVERYONE, for the advice and support. Again today I had him out - only ever on leash, now, of course! - and the darn dog (who I have confirmed is named Shiloh) hopped her fence and came after him. She seemed less aggressive this time, so I just crouched down to be near Grover and let her cautiously approach. She's very nervous about me, apparently, so that works to my benefit, but even after I let her sniff me and Grover was soooo good and stayed still and let her sniff him a little bit, she kept circling in a creepy way. After letting her sniff him, Grover started climbing my leg so I picked him up. Luckily this time one of the neighbourhood kids was about, and he knows that Grover is shy and obviously that Shiloh doesn't belong out of her pen, and he was doing everything he could to get her away from Grover - thankfully his efforts eventually paid off! 

I did manage to get Grover to pee outside tonight, but only after muuuuch coaxing. He seemed to do the "where's a poop spot?" sniff, but then got distracted and kept pulling towards the house, so we came in - and he pooped on the floor within minutes >.< Thank you, Shiloh, for undoing weeks of training - argh! 

Oh well, at least I know there's hope!

I am in kind of a tricky situation about asking the other dog owner to better fence/leash his dog, because... well, to be blunt, I'm new and I'm white. My dog is considered a "toy, not a dog" in this community, which was pointed out to me not by any of the locals, but by a (rather snotty) caucasian woman when I was walking with Grover and my daughter. 

On the other hand, I really DO need to get to work on the pee-pad training - winter is coming, and I'm going to get caught short if I don't hustle! Maybe the silver lining in this situation is that I'm going to get my butt in gear.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Yeah Karen that's not a bad idea. If there's a lineup at the checkout I always keep Molly away from any other dogs as much as possible. A lot of dogs don't like another strange dog close like that and can react in a split second.
> 
> I don't want to get people paranoid about certain breeds, or big dogs in general, but you have to be aware and attentive at all times, while around other dogs.


Besides the dog issue, not to sound snobbish, but you get a different "set" of dog owners passing through a big chain store than you do at a good training center... I don't trust that the other dogs are properly vaccinated, free of fleas, etc.

Also, the ONLY place I've ever had Kodi pee inappropriately in a public place was in Petsmart, on the rug in front of the cash register. I'm sure another dog (or dogs) had peed there first. I don't want him to EVER think that's OK, so I don't give him the opportunity!


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## andra (Aug 23, 2010)

Thank you for checking back in and thank you for clarifying your circumstances. The discussion boards are great places to receive support and information and there are many very experienced dog owners on both that can help guide you. I do not know the laws of Canada as I live in the USA, however, no matter how your Havanese is viewed, I think you do have a right to be safe and not attacked by a rogue dog. I could be wrong about this, though. I know here in the USA, a homeowners insurance policy can be held accountable for dog injuries--here in the USA, many homeowners insurance policies have breed clauses for this very reason. This may or may not be the case in your area but I would assume there are some legal protections that could cover you if you were to be injured. It may be good to send a certified letter alerting the owners of the dog that the dog is tresspassing on your property and acting aggressive and that you will defend yourself. I mean, what if you had a toddler and you were outside and this dog came around. And in light of what Dave wrote about 'predatory drift', this is a very serious issue.

I understand that the Inuit people view their dogs as working animals and not pets. Even so, if one is acting aggressive, that is a problem that needs to be addressed. 

I think it would be prudent to protect yourself (and Grover) when you go outside. Such as carrying a taser, large stick, or something that you can use to defend yourself if the dog attacks. It is sad that you are the one having to manage this situation, but it is what it is and until this dog is stabilized in some way, the onus is on you to keep yourself and Grover safe.

Please keep in touch and let us know how you and Grover are doing. His avatar is so cute


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Are there any nice dogs in your neighborhood? Even though, the rural folk have the working dog mindset, there is always one or two that got sucked in by a pair of cute puppy eyes. That pooch may be called 'useless' but it always seems to be in the best spot in the house, right under the owner's hand, waiting for a headrub and bellyrub.

Grover is going to need some doggy friends. I hadn't realized how scared Nessie got when she was a puppy. Two adults Newfies surrounded her during a playgroup. They were very nice but their size and closeness were overwhelming. 

We spent the rest of time in a separate area playing with the trainer's dogs but I never took her back to playgroup. My error. Now she doesn't do well with other dogs. An unpredictable touch of fear-aggression. I wish I had a forum like this back then.


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Andra made a suggestion about carrying a large stick with which to defend yourself and Grover. My husband has advised me when we have had roaming pit bulls from an apartment complex a couple of blocks away to use the stick [in my case, a wooden handled metal shovel pooper scooper] to hit an *attacking* dog on its knees - and to keep hitting until the dog can no longer come toward us.

Some years ago when I was walking my two older Lhasas, a large dog that had been confined in a neighbor's garage came tearing out when the owner opened the garage door. It came right after my old, blind boy and bit him on the back. My girl was barking, and I was yelling and trying to get Storm away from this dog while the owner stood by the garage and did nothing! His wife came running out of the house to try to pull the dog away, and one of the other neighbors up the street jumped into his car and drove up. he jumped out of the car, opened the back door and told me to get in with my dogs as he kicked the attacker away from Storm. He drove me home [ a few doors away]. I have never been so frightened. I am not a large person -5'0" - and am not super strong, so I am so glad for the help.

I called Animal Control and made a report, but he wasn't willing to give up the dog. After that, I carried my "big stick" in case that aggressive dog was let out again.

He wasn't out again when we walked by, although he was let loose by that owner and attacked the spaniel next door causing about $5000 in Vet bills for her, poor thing.

The wife left him. He then allowed Animal Control to take the dog.

Long story long, I carry my big stick and am prepared to use it to defend my furbabies.

Good luck with talking to your neighbor about better securing the aggressive female.


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## KittehKat (Jul 26, 2011)

Holy CROW - after hearing some of the stories on the forums, I`m sooo glad that my situation wasn`t worse! Ever since the kid helped me, Shiloh has left me alone. In fact, I haven`t even seen her or her puppies! 

Grover is still terrified to go outside, especially in the evenings, but if I carry him to a place he feels safe, he will still do his business outside, so that`s on the positive side!

There are some friendly dogs here, but the people that own them work as much or more than we do, so it makes it challenging to arrange playdates. However, I`m hoping I can set something like that up in the future. I`m tempted to put up a sign about having a mini-dog playdate if anyone would be interested, but I`m kind of chicken to try LOL 

Thanks, everyone, for being so awesome and supportive. The ideas on here are fantastic, especially the ones about self-defense. It`s always good to be prepared for anything, especially in the arctic!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

You'll do fine, just take things easy, and be aware. You're a quick learner, I can tell. Don't hesitate to ask for any help down the road.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I recently received an email telling how effective Wasp Spray is in self defense of home intruders. I think it would work equally well for walking when attacked by dogs OR people. It sprays accurately for up to something like 20 feet. You aim for the eyes. It takes a trip to the ER to get the antidote. I've thought about pepper spray, but it is so hard to contain I'd be afraid to get it in my own dog's eyes, or even mine.

Might be something to consider.


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## KittehKat (Jul 26, 2011)

That's a very helpful tip, Sheri... I may have to look into that, as a 'just in case' type thing. I'm not sure I can GET wasp spray, though, because there aren't any wasps up here. It also might be 'dangerous goods' which makes it even MORE difficult to get up here, because it would have to somehow get here by airplane... 

I wonder if my mom could email me a bottle... hrm... 

Dave - thanks for saying I'm a fast learner, but I sure feel slow lately! lol I certainly will be continuously asking for help, though, you can count on that!


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## KittehKat (Jul 26, 2011)

uh, that was: I wonder if my mom could MAIL me a bottle. Geesh! You can tell I'M a computer nerd LOL


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

I've been away the past few days so haven't been on the forum until today but wanted to follow this thread...
I needed to know how Grover was doing!

Lynne-Yes, it was a VERY scary thing to see him carried away! I must report that "Bubba" hasn't even been seen in the neighborhood for a few days now. I'm not sure if they are keeping him inside or if he is no longer there! But thankfully I have not seen him!

Dave-You totally amaze me with the wealth of information that comes flying through your posts! Honestly, you remind me of "Watson" on Jeopardy!

Kittehkat-I do hope things are getting better for Grover. Poor doggy should never be scared to go out his own door! So I am glad to hear he is going potty outside again! 
And BTW...He is such a cute little guy!


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

And I would say it would take a long time for you to take over computer nerd from Dave! JK


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## KittehKat (Jul 26, 2011)

TCollins: Grover is doing much better. Shiloh and her puppies have seemingly been moved, so she is no longer in straight-view of Grover when he goes outside. I have completely given up on the off-leash thing for now, because I still see Shiloh wandering around outside (luckily never when I'm with Grover) and she is off-leash and sniffing or whatever. I've seen people (I assume her owners?) call her and she completely ignores them. 

Grover is getting more confident about going outside again, but he still seems nervous after dark. I'm not sure if this is because of the Shiloh incident(s) or if it's just because he hasn't been outside in the dark since we've lived here, since it's only the last week that darkness of any type even happens! Either way, we seem to be getting there, so I'm very pleased. I do find that I am more paranoid that I used to be - I am always on the lookout for Shiloh or other animals even more than before, and I will start at any little noise when I'm out with Grover, especially at night. 

Soon it will be winter and it will be too cold for Grover to go outside, so I guess that's a good thing? lol But in the meantime I'm just glad that he's not so scared of going outside that he's missing out on the last few weeks of quasi-summer weather


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## KittehKat (Jul 26, 2011)

tcollins said:


> And I would say it would take a long time for you to take over computer nerd from Dave! JK


LOL! You're right - he sure has given me a run for my money since I've been on the boards! :whoo: (I just really like that emote)


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Great to hear things are improving. When does your winter start ,ie first snow. ? BTW what's your first name?


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## KittehKat (Jul 26, 2011)

Dave: My first name is Kat, for serious  Apparently last year the first snow was September 15th. We're already getting into the time of year where we're 'normal' as far as day/night cycles go, which is freaking Grover out more than anything else, I think LOL 

I've managed to get my hands on some training pads (and some reusable ones on the way - yay moms!) and Grover is actually doing really well with them. I have recently - kind of unintentionally - started working full time, so I have been leaving him at home with his crate, food and water, and pee-pad available, and he must remember what to do from being a puppy because he's almost always spot-on with the pee-pad thing. I obviously need more of them, though, because as people have mentioned on the forums before, he doesn't like to do two kinds of business in one spot, so the poops are never on the pad, but over in a corner somewhere... oh well, at least I have him on laminate flooring, and Lysol wipes were already on my list of favourite things in the world 

In many, many other ways Grover is making huge improvements. He's getting way more comfortable with DH, he's playing and bonding with my daughter (Zoe), he sits instantly about 90% of the time, goes "up" for treats (his special trick), and is FINALLY realizing that I want him to lay down sometimes, too. 

He is still awesome and hilarious, and his coat is growing out enough that he doesn't look like a dalmation quite as much. I've noticed he is starting to get a few hairs here and there that are definitely not downy/fuzzy - does this mean he's getting ready to 'blow coat'? I guess I should be grateful that he's already so short-furred at the moment, as I might get away with not shaving him again? 

Sorry this is so long, but I suddenly had lots to say


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

I'm glad to hear that Grover is bonding with your husband! That takes a while for some reason. It took a LONG time for Oliver to bond with my hubby and like I said before, he is still 'funny' around other men. 
When we got Oliver, he had to be shaved because he was so matted from his previous owner. It has grown so much in the last 5 months! I'm not sure myself what "blow coat" is, but I know Oliver is getting fluffier and has been groomed a few times now!


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

Btw...you live in my husband's DREAM vacation! It must be sooooo beautiful!


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## KittehKat (Jul 26, 2011)

Tcollins: What is YOUR first name? I feel so silly calling you by your username lol

I do love it here, it is one of the most beautiful places on the planet. We lived up here before, and when we moved down south for a couple of years, we were startled at how much we missed it. I think "up here" is way more home than anywhere "down south" I've lived. If you'd like, I can post some pictures of our town/sunsets, etc... some of the sights up here really are incredible! If you and your DH ever make it up here, make sure to pick a cruise ship that stops in Cambridge Bay! But if you bring Oliver, make sure you buy him a parka.

He does look awfully cute and fluffy in your picture of him. I wish Grover had that much fur. I also wish we had a groomer within a zillion miles... it's frustrating for me to try grooming him myself. Grover is still 'funny' around other men, and if I'm not around does not like DH to get too close to him, but if Mom is home then it's all good, and the two of them can wrestle, or play 'the blanket game' endlessly. 

How long have you had Oliver now?


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