# Because we can.



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

How #$%^&*+ cruel can we be? http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/shocking-our-dogs


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Great article Dave. I would never use any sort of shock device on my guys. I've never even raised a hand to them, let alone shocked them!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

lfung5 said:


> Great article Dave. I would never use any sort of shock device on my guys. I've never even raised a hand to them, let alone shocked them!


 LOL , the only time they're shocked , is when you go a week without buying them something.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

HAHAHAHA! Like I said, they've never been shocked LOL


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It makes me SO sad that people still do this. Worse, it's not just the bozos who know nothing and go into Petsmart and buy one. There are top obedience trainers still use them too. Since I train at a training center that not only uses only positive training techniques, but won't allow even a choke collar in the building, and show mostly in APDT and CDSP venues, I sometime forget how prevalent these training methods still are.

Last spring I was at an AKC trial chatting with a woman who was there with the only other Hav in the obedience/rally ring. Her little dog did a great job, earning at least two titles in the course of a 4 day show, where she entered both obedience and rally all 4 days. (I tend to take things slower with Kodi... We did only two days of the same 4 day show, and showed only in rally) She told me in a very excited tone that she was going to start working with this person who is an obedience trainer with a record of producing many OTCH dogs. The problem is, this trainer is also well known for the use of harsh training methods. It made me so sad to see this cute little dog, who gave his all for his owner all weekend, being put into the hands of a person like this. 

I KNOW that it is possible to put up consistent scores of 199 or 200 with dogs that are completely positive-trained. Maybe it doesn't happen quite as quickly, (at the very highest levels) but how can those punishment-based trainers look their dogs in the eye at the end of the day?

I know I am preaching to the choir for the most part in this group, but it still makes me very sad when I see it.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yeah Karen ,there will always be people who don't see the harm in these devices. And they will use the quickest (in their minds) method irregardless of the potential downside of harsh methods. Numerous studies have proven these deivices are harmful, and even in our group IAABC there still are a couple of trainers that want to be able to use them, not so much with sport dogs but behavior modification. I simple don't see the need for them. They are dangerous even in the hands of the best trainers and most dangerous with the average dog owner. If you wouldn't do this to a human , why do it to a dog. ?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> If you wouldn't do this to a human , why do it to a dog. ?


Because you can get away with it because dogs, for the most part, are so forgiving. These techniques have limited usefulness with horses, because horses respond in a way that is dangerous to humans. Dogs take it and SILL smile at their owners, so they are the ones who get the abuse.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Right on Karen


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