# Calming Signals DVD Review/Discussion



## curly_DC (Nov 27, 2011)

After recommendations by other forum members, I purchased and watched the DVD _Calming Signals: What Your Dog Tells You_, by Turid Rugaas.

Rugaas lists the calming signals here on her website, to include "yawning" and "looking away."

The content of the DVD, the filmed examples of real dogs and their handlers, and how the dogs are showing the different calming signals, was very helpful and informative. The filming and narration quality isn't a Hollywood production but I got the idea.

According to Rugaas, all dogs have a language of peace that they use to avoid conflict. These are the "calming signals." The dogs are using the signals to calm themselves or calm other dogs to avoid conflict.

I feel more reassured that people, strangers, looming over my dog and petting him on the head, is NOT my dog's problem. Most dogs don't respond well to that type of interaction or approach.

From the "Calming Signals" DVD, I learned that I can encourage calming signals in my dog, such as "curving" when we walk and there is another dog approaching.

Has anyone else viewed the DVD? What do you think of it? Have you tried practicing with your dog to teach your dog calming signals?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I am ordering the book by the same author as the dvd you have! 
I'm sure we will be practicing and learning the calming signals in the near future!


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## curly_DC (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi Tammy: I have the book also. I haven't started reading it yet. 

The only thing I don't really understand is whether or not the calming signals are a good sign or not. 

If you see your dog using calming signals, does that mean the dog is stressed or calm? I guess it depends on the signal.

In the DVD, a dog in the "sit" position is nervous about another dog approaching. The approaching dog sees that the dog is nervous because of the sit position, so the dog approaches more slowly. 

An older dog "socializes" younger puppies that their play is too rough, by "sniffing" the ground and not playing with them until they get the idea.

It's all very fascinating to see that yes, dogs do have a universal language they use with each other.


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

Good question, Michelle. I've always wondered the same thing, are the calming signals a good thing or a bad one? While I was thinking about your question, it occured to me that they may be neither good nor bad. They might just be signals. Similar to when we humans sometimes cry when we're frustrated. It's a response, probably not even a learned response but just happens as a result of another emotion -- frustration. A good human friend will see our singals and respond to them appropriately to help us feel better. Maybe that's why it's important for us to learn the dog's way of communicating their emotional well-being, so we can help them. 

I don't have a clue if what I'm saying is right or not, but I would guess we don't teach the dog the calming signals. We can only learn them and respond when we see them and try to communicate to them using their language. 

I'll be very interested in hearing what the experts have to say on this.


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

curly_DC said:


> In the DVD, a dog in the "sit" position is nervous about another dog approaching. The approaching dog sees that the dog is nervous because of the sit position, so the dog approaches more slowly.


This blows me away. In obedience we ask our dogs to sit still while other dogs approach or walk by. I thought it was a "polite" and good thing that your dog was "confident" enough that he could sit calmly while another dog approached. I'm confused.  Could that be why Lucy has trobule with sitting calmly when a person comes to pet her, that she's trying to convey that she's NOT nervous. Maybe I want her to be a little nervous. (just kidding.)


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Calming signals shouldn't be classified as either good or bad. It's just an unspoken language. All animals and people use them. They are a very good thing to understand.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

curly_DC said:


> After recommendations by other forum members, I purchased and watched the DVD _Calming Signals: What Your Dog Tells You_, by Turid Rugaas.
> 
> Rugaas lists the calming signals here on her website, to include "yawning" and "looking away."
> 
> ...


I bought the e-book version of the book, and while the text is interesting, the black and white photos are poor quality, and it's really hard to learn much from them. I'm glad to hear that the DVD was useful. I'll probably purchase that as well!


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Before you know it, you will understand your Hav. Watch and listen intently for little signs your Hav makes, you will be surprised what you will figure out.


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## curly_DC (Nov 27, 2011)

Turid Rugaas, the author, is Norwegian. Sometimes I detect cultural differences, like with the scenario of the dog in the "sit" position. Maybe her point was in that particular scenario the dog in the "sit" position was nervous. My neighbors with large dogs here have put their dogs in a "sit" position for Sergio to relax him so he can approach them.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

curly_DC said:


> Turid Rugaas, the author, is Norwegian. Sometimes I detect cultural differences, like with the scenario of the dog in the "sit" position. Maybe her point was in that particular scenario the dog in the "sit" position was nervous. My neighbors with large dogs here have put their dogs in a "sit" position for Sergio to relax him so he can approach them.


I've been studying and using these signals for about 15 years, working with the DVD primarily. Lent mine, and have never seen it again! But I watched it many, many times, and each time I watched, I saw more.

Also, I went out watching dogs, in many different situations; often, where there was varied terrain and shrubbery and trees (and a beach) - so dogs had space to move in, and places to use as barriers.

Primarliy, I learned to see the calming signals. Each of them are things dogs do for OTHER reasons, too, such as, Sit. So, the way to know if the behavior is a calming signal is to look at the environment in which the dog does the behavior. If there are people doing things, dogs or other animals doing things, and your dog might be SLIGHTLY stressed, your dog may exhibit one or more of these signals. You can only tell from context (dog's context) whether the behavior is a calming signal or not.

We can't cue (nor command) a calming signal; it's not effective; dogs have to do this on their own. It's when you see dogs EXCHANGING calming signals - that you can REALLY see what is going on, though it takes practice to see those exchanges. That's where the DVD is a big help.

Calming signals are signs of low-level (early) stress, before stress builds to a point where the dog has gone over a certain stress level, at which point you may see other, stronger, signs of stress, such as sweating paws, or having dander.

What to do about it, when your dog is throwing calming signals? Usually, remove the dog from the situation, before the stress builds worse. This means, you need to have taught your dog to follow you out of a situation. I usually use U-turns to do this job.

When a dog doesn't follow easily, you can zig-zag out.

Here's a basic primer on calming signals:

http://www.coherentdog.org/arc2006/calmsig.htm

And here are remarks on me working with the calming signals with my Australian Terriers:

http://www.coherentdog.org/arc2006/dogconnect.htm

Gaining knowledge and practice with the signals gives us one of the great tools we can use to help us make right-now decisions about what to do with or for our dogs.

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 18:01:34 (PDT)


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Great links! Thank you so much Carol!


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

HavaneseSoon said:


> Great links! Thank you so much Carol!


So glad you enjoyed the articles! Thanks for your comment!

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:24:33 (PDT)


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Great stuff Carol . Thanks for promoting this . Very important stuff. Calming signals are deliberate signals used by the dog to calm those around them and also themselves. Stress signals are involunatary reactions. You bet they're good, they are their means to communicate. Some dogs learn to abandon them if they are ignored too often. Keep reading . And like Carol mentions go to a dog park if you really want to look for them and recognize them. A leashed dog has a hard time exhibiting them.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

here's one related to my dogs don't like hugs post 





According to a recent survey, 30 percent of dog lovers hug their pets more than their human family members .


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Diann said:


> Good question, Michelle. I've always wondered the same thing, are the calming signals a good thing or a bad one? While I was thinking about your question, it occured to me that they may be neither good nor bad. They might just be signals. Similar to when we humans sometimes cry when we're frustrated. It's a response, probably not even a learned response but just happens as a result of another emotion -- frustration. A good human friend will see our singals and respond to them appropriately to help us feel better. Maybe that's why it's important for us to learn the dog's way of communicating their emotional well-being, so we can help them.
> 
> I don't have a clue if what I'm saying is right or not, but I would guess we don't teach the dog the calming signals. We can only learn them and respond when we see them and try to communicate to them using their language.
> 
> I'll be very interested in hearing what the experts have to say on this.


I think you are right, Diann. I think it's all about context. It's good to learn the language of dogs because it makes it easier to understand what your dog (and others around them) are doing.

As an example, when Kodi started learning heeling we had a HORRIBLE time keeping his nose off the ground. I thought it was distractibility. (and I STILL think this was part of it, because he was much worse if the ring had been used early by a "pet" class, where a lot of food had been dropped on the floor) So I spent a lot of time click treating him for maintaining his focus on me, even for a step or two. (nearly broke my back with a little dog!ound But now I think a BIG part of it was stress. He was definitely worse in classes when there were other dogs (almost always bigger than him) around. Even though they were not bothering him in any way, I think he was throwing calming signals, basically saying, "I'm small and harmless, don't hurt me!"

I don't think I would have trained him any differently, he still needed to learn to work around other dogs, and he still needed lots of positive encouragement to learn that. But it makes so much more sense why he is SO much more attentive, and so much less prone to sniffing when he is in the show ring, by himself. (which is whre many dogs are worst!)

Also, as far as stress is concerned,I recently read an interesting article. It was talking about "good" stress and "bad" stress. Bad stress is "distress", and there is actually a term for good stress, though I can't remember it now. Good stress is fine in moderation, as it helps the being (dog, horse or human) move forward. Bad stress is ALWAYS bad. But the other important thing to remember is that whether it is good or bad stress, it still has the same physiological effect on the body. Therefore, even "good" stress (and I took this to mean situations like training a dog through a situation like Kodi's floor sniffing) needs to be done in moderation, no more than a few times per week, to give the BODY time to recover from the stress hormones releases, as well as for the mind.

I don't know whether you can teach a dog calming signals if he hasn't learned them by himself. Maybe Carol can weigh in on that one.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> here's one related to my dogs don't like hugs post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


BTW, for those who didn't follow this link, there are also a whole lot of other Turid Ruugas videos on You Tube.


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## curly_DC (Nov 27, 2011)

So if I understand the book case histories correctly, Rugaas used the natural instincts of her dog Vesla to work with other dogs. In one case though, she asserts that simply yawning in front of a frightened and nervous dog solved his anxiety over passing trains. Has Rugaas ever conducted any scientific research to prove her theories? In the interactions with the dogs, there's a nervous dog and a "calming" dog. What happens when neither dog knows how to use calming signals with the other? For example in one scenario a dog uses "splitting" to go in between two dogs playing too roughly. What if that dog wasn't present?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Calming signals are an inate ability that vary from dog to dog. It's a universal language that some dogs use more than others. Some dogs will use ones that work ,more than others. They are learned in a sense too . Like all things , dogs learn what works. Like I already mentioned ,they will give up using certain ones if they become ignored. Unfortunately ,even if a dog recognizes another dogs calming signals , they don't always comply with them. Some dogs are simply asocial. For example , dogs with long facial hair or black faced eg. Kodi, may use licking more often . Probably because it works better since their facial and eye expressions don't come through as clear. They truly are amaziing critters. LOL Havs I think are handicapped with their long hair. It hides a lot of their body language. But I still won't be shaving my Molly. But I do believe in keeping the hair out of her eyes. LOL


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Michele, dogs that are poor communicators are the ones that become involved in more aggression. Like I mentioned , because they recognize signals doesn't mean they abide by them. Dogs are much like us in ways.


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## nlb (Feb 26, 2012)

I feel better now about letting Cass walk ahead of me. 

I noticed before reading those articles that while I was trying to take pictures of her, she would sometimes see the camera and then turn her head away. She did it in a certain way like she was saying, "I don't want to do this now." 

I'm learning lots here...thanks!


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## curly_DC (Nov 27, 2011)

This morning on our walk to the groomer, Sergio walked confidently through a training class of several large dogs. They were all in the sit position.


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## curly_DC (Nov 27, 2011)

To keep the discussion about the book going, I did read where Rugaas views humans as parents to the dog. She doesn't think we should view ourselves as pack leaders. She has a chapter on leadership and parenthood. According to her, there is no wolfpack leader but wolf parents. She clearly has views about dominance and leadership. "Forget about being a leader of your puppy. Start being a parent" (p. 70). I see cultural differences between Norway and the USA. Often times, it's easier for Americans to understand what it means to be a leader than to be a parent. With the wolfpack, Rugaas states "The cubs grow up with the most patient and loving parents..." and "dogs bringing up puppies get perfect dogs out of them. When we humans bring up puppies we get problems" (p. 71). This seems very utopian to me. ALL wolves bring up perfect wolves?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

curly_DC said:


> To keep the discussion about the book going, I did read where Rugaas views humans as parents to the dog. She doesn't think we should view ourselves as pack leaders. She has a chapter on leadership and parenthood. According to her, there is no wolfpack leader but wolf parents. They alwaShe clearly has views about dominance and leleadership.


yeah Michele , her views are consistent with modern dog trainers that are realizing it's not about wolves and not about dominance. Benevolent leadership is what it's all about.

not to change the topic Michele but since you like reading , I just recieved a two part artlcle on Dominance by Dr. Karen Overall . I have 69 more ,if you like LOL 
70 http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dv...-Part-1/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/762103 
71 http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=767068&pageID=1&sk&date


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I liked Dr. Overall's words in the links above ..."We can use this new scientific knowledge about dogs to help us address canine behaviors that we or the dog find problematic. Fixing problematic canine behavior is actually not about control, leadership or mastery of the dog—it's about increasing the chance that you can signal clearly to the dog, that you have the dog's undivided attention while signaling, and that you are actually rewarding the behaviors that you desire." 

It's all about signals and communication.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

curly_DC said:


> So if I understand the book case histories correctly, Rugaas used the natural instincts of her dog Vesla to work with other dogs. In one case though, she asserts that simply yawning in front of a frightened and nervous dog solved his anxiety over passing trains. Has Rugaas ever conducted any scientific research to prove her theories? In the interactions with the dogs, there's a nervous dog and a "calming" dog. What happens when neither dog knows how to use calming signals with the other? For example in one scenario a dog uses "splitting" to go in between two dogs playing too roughly. What if that dog wasn't present?


Good questions, Michele. I really ike it that you question, question; we should question EVERYTHING, if you ask me; even ourselves!

The dog who recovered concerning passing trains merely by having his teacher throw calming signals is a nice example, but we can't expect every dog to recover that easily. It can work with some dogs, in some situations. To have it work, the dog has to be at a low level of stress (with other matters) to begin with. Once a dog goes over a certain level of stress, no more learning can take place till the dog has a period free of anxiety. And that, depending on how high the levels of stress rose - on how heavy is the dose of stress hormones the dog got, can be as long as from two to six days.

Camellia is often happy to work with the clicker in the afternoon or early evening, even if she had a very stressful morning, and if she seems to want some activity, I WILL do a bit of clicker-game with her. Usually no more than three sessions (individual sets of trials) in one training period.

I just posted in another thread on thsi; I'm using terminology from Bob and Marian Bailey. A training session is a set of trials, working on the same behavior - a SMALL one, usually. No more than about ten trials per session; and five or six are okay. These are REPEATS of the same behavior. A training period is made up of, say, two to three sessions, with short breaks between them.

The Baileys trained in ways to minimize any confusion for the animal being trained. That REALLY helps! They also did all possible to keep stress levels down for the trainee animals, for the simple reason that animals learn better that way. (But also, they always did their best to maintain the animals in excellent health.)

Well, that was a bit of a diversion; back to the main questions here.

When dogs don't use calming signals, we can't necessarily be sure they don't KNOW them. Dave effectively pointed this out. Adolescent dogs - that could include as old as two, which, in my experience, tends to be a time when dogs begin to "recover" from adolescence - experience an awful lot of brain farts, and aren't in good training condition as a result. All the same, those accustomed to working with a clicker (or an event-marker, which can be a word instead of a click) may do quite well with very brief training periods, a couple of times a day. You just have to go by what you can observe about your dog's stress levels.

If the "splitting dog" hadn't been present and working, likely the roughly-playing dogs would have continued for a time, possibly building up their stress levels a lot. Maybe they would have come out of it on their own, but the "splitting dog" wasn't taking undue chances!

Somebody mentioned the fact that all stress has the same physiological result; it's really good for us to understand that - the levels of stress hormones in the body rise, and unless the dog gets a considerable period of rest from stress, they can be set off again, and rise even higher, making it that much more difficult (and time-consuming) to allow them to subside to base level.

Adrenaline starts the sequence, but other hormones are also released, cortisol being a major one. Adrenaline usually leaves the body in 15 to 30 minutes, but the other hormones can stay high for an awful lot longer.

The term for good-stress is "eu-stress." (somebody mentioned having forgotten the term). And now I've forgotten the name of the guy who coined it- Hans-somebody, I think.

Turid prefers to travel the world giving presentations (apart from her teaching of dog-trainers in specifically-designed schooling sessions), concentrating on what an inexperienced pubic can easily understand. This is largely why she doesn't use a scientific type of presentation - that is, not OBVIOUSLY so. However, she has a solid academic background. It takes wild horses to drag it out of her ;-) And she keeps doing advanced studies as well, in physiology, and other subjects.

I myself have a very solid (and supposedly complete) advanced academic background, and am strong in doing field research. Turid used field research techniques while studying dog body language. Her methods were meticulous and right up to par for field research.

Hope this answers your questions at least partly, Michele!

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 17:51:01 (PDT)


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

krandall said:


> [snip]
> 
> Also, as far as stress is concerned,I recently read an interesting article. It was talking about "good" stress and "bad" stress. Bad stress is "distress", and there is actually a term for good stress, though I can't remember it now. Good stress is fine in moderation, as it helps the being (dog, horse or human) move forward. Bad stress is ALWAYS bad. But the other important thing to remember is that whether it is good or bad stress, it still has the same physiological effect on the body. Therefore, even "good" stress (and I took this to mean situations like training a dog through a situation like Kodi's floor sniffing) needs to be done in moderation, no more than a few times per week, to give the BODY time to recover from the stress hormones releases, as well as for the mind.
> 
> ...


We humans cannot teach dogs calming signals. We CAN teach dogs to do the behaviors that are the same as calming signals, but that's like guiding a dog with your hands to "show" them, for instance, how to Sit. Dogs already KNOW how to sit; they just don't understand making the connection between a cue from the trainer and the action of Sit-ting.

Except for dogs with incredibly bad genes, or dogs who are really severely injured or diseased, dogs have the innate ability to learn to use calming signals; it's there, in the neurology/physiology. Only another dog can "teach" a dog to use calming signals. Anyway, that's what Turid says, and from all I've observed, as usual, she's right.

I should add that lots of otherwise pretty competent, even good, dog-trainers, really don't know this. They are missing the concepts.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 18:02:05 (PDT)


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

krandall said:


> BTW, for those who didn't follow this link, there are also a whole lot of other Turid Ruugas videos on You Tube.


Thanks, Dave! I put "Rugaas" into the Search box on YouTube, and that really got me started.

Oops - it was KAREN who pointed that out!

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 18:05:15 (PDT)


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

*Turid Rugaas - field research and data*



curly_DC said:


> Has Rugaas ever conducted any scientific research to prove her theories?


Coming back to this, Michele. Rugaas, with a colleague made miles and milse of videotape of dogs interacting, freely and not-freely, and in many different situations. They did this for TWO YEARS to begin with. It was from studying those videotapes that they came up with the term "calming signals."

Turid described it to me, briefly, this way. She said, she and her colleague asked each other, "Do you see what I see?" That merely indicates a certain meticulousness in doing field research. It's not enough, by itself, but it's a good indication of meticulousness.

Turid has never stopped researching. She expects to go on learning all her life. Maybe that's partly why I find her a kindred spirit - but also, she's taught me SO MUCH about dogs that I find indispensable to me, that I am forever grateful to her.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 18:15:03 (PDT)


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

davetgabby said:


> Calming signals are an inate ability that vary from dog to dog. It's a universal language that some dogs use more than others. Some dogs will use ones that work ,more than others. They are learned in a sense too . Like all things , dogs learn what works. Like I already mentioned ,they will give up using certain ones if they become ignored. Unfortunately ,even if a dog recognizes another dogs calming signals , they don't always comply with them. Some dogs are simply asocial. For example , dogs with long facial hair or black faced eg. Kodi, may use licking more often . Probably because it works better since their facial and eye expressions don't come through as clear. They truly are amaziing critters. LOL Havs I think are handicapped with their long hair. It hides a lot of their body language. But I still won't be shaving my Molly. But I do believe in keeping the hair out of her eyes. LOL


Dave - I think you understand to perfection. Thanks so much for this post!

I keep Camellia clipped-down anyway, so she doesn't have hair in her eyes [grin]

P.S. I just fed Camellia about half an hour ago, and ate my own supper. Camellia is lying down with her back to me, facing the dog-door. Is this a calming signal? It COULD BE, but right at this instant, while I'm occupied on the computer, she has no worries about me doing something nasty to her. So it's probably NOT a calming signal. Instead, she's waiting - hoping - that Mr. Mousie will turn up on the landing outside the dog-door, so she can RUSH OUT, and, she hopes, catch him. We DO have a Mr. (or Mrs.) Mousie who occasionally gets into the collected stuff up against a wall on the landing. I have it blocked off with ex-pen panels; I don't want Camellia actually CATCHING this critter!

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 18:28:32 (PDT)


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

nlb said:


> I feel better now about letting Cass walk ahead of me.
> 
> I noticed before reading those articles that while I was trying to take pictures of her, she would sometimes see the camera and then turn her head away. She did it in a certain way like she was saying, "I don't want to do this now."
> 
> I'm learning lots here...thanks!


Hey, Nicki! I'm so glad you feel better about letting Cass walk ahead of you. The idea that dogs shouldn't do that is based on outdated (and quite fully de-bunked) ideas about dogs wanting to be the boss.

It's NOT that they want to be the boss. It's two things:

1) Dogs want us to take care of them; to meet all their real needs. Of course, we here on the forum do our best to do that, with the help of vets, trainers, and so forth. We are the CareTakers and Guides for our dogs. NOT the leaders. We don't have to lead; unless we choose to, and we can teach our dogs to follow. Then we can reverse that position!

2) Dogs don't survive well on their own. That puts US in the position of being their Absolute Caretakers - we are solely responsible for their well-beings. In effect, that makes us their gods. We don't have to do ANYTHING but do our best to take as good care of them as we can.

An error that underlies the idea that dogs want to take over the world is human fears about just that. It's a mis-interpretation; very sad! Because it gets in the way of our learning more about our dogs.

Learning how dogs commuicate; in short, learning dog body language, is, I believe, the greatest protection of all against our making ignorant and harmful mistakes with our dogs.

P.S. I learned the hard way, and even though I KNEW BETTER, I went along with some of the bad stuff. Shame on me. I'm glad I turned around.

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 18:43:59 (PDT)


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

CAROL what a brilliant series of posts. So glad you joined this forum. You are a wealth of info and experience. I just loved your statement ... "Once a dog goes over a certain level of stress, no more learning can take place till the dog has a period free of anxiety. And that, depending on how high the levels of stress rose - on how heavy is the dose of stress hormones the dog got, can be as long as from two to six days." 

This is very important for people to be aware of. Many people try to train or "correct" a dog when they are totally stressed. This simply does not work . That is one of the reasons why traditional dog training does not work as well as reward or positive based training. True for all living creatures and most certainly humans. Thanks for this.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

davetgabby said:


> CAROL what a brilliant series of posts. So glad you joined this forum. You are a wealth of info and experience. I just loved your statement ... "Once a dog goes over a certain level of stress, no more learning can take place till the dog has a period free of anxiety. And that, depending on how high the levels of stress rose - on how heavy is the dose of stress hormones the dog got, can be as long as from two to six days."
> 
> This is very important for people to be aware of. Many people try to train or "correct" a dog when they are totally stressed. This simply does not work . That is one of the reasons why traditional dog training does not work as well as reward or positive based training. True for all living creatures and most certainly humans. Thanks for this.


I can't take credit for the information, Dave; it was put together by others. I merely wrote it down ;-)

Dave - with far fewer words, you summarized the essences of all this. This information has been available for two decades at least; maybe three; maybe even longer; it just took people to put it together meaningfully - and go out and TEACH it, and that is a project Turid Rugaas continues. So do numbers of other trainers and behavior counselors. Thank doGNess for that. You and Karen do a wonderful job helping to pass the information around. I appreciate that no end.

And meantime, we can all use it for our Havs.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 16:17:19 (PDT)


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