# Breeder says I can take home puppy at 7 weeks?



## mariestephanie (Apr 5, 2012)

Roscoe was born march 5 and she says I could come get him this weekend if I wanted to, but then he'll only be 7 weeks old? Isn't the age for a puppy to be separated from his mom 8 weeks? The breeder says that if I'm not comfortable taking him home this weekend then he can stay another week. What do you guys think?


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## lanabanana (Jul 2, 2011)

I would absolutely let him stay another week. Someone who knows more than I will add better comments, but I think it's a pretty well known fact that puppies should not leave their moms at 7 weeks.

Make sure you get back here with pictures as soon as you get him!! And, good luck with your baby.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

up to you. No harm in seven if the breeder thinks so. You'll get various opinions on this. I lean toward eight weeks, but many dogs have left at seven weeks with no problems. Scott and Fuller thought so. .....

Scott and Fuller, from the book Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog. 
In the period of socialization ,there are two basic rules for producing a well balanced and well adjusted dog. The first of these is that the ideal time to produce a close social relationship between a puppy and his master, occur between six and eight weeks of age. This is the optimal time to remove a puppy from the litter and make it into a house pet. If this is done earlier, especially at four weeks or before, the puppy has little opportunity to form normal social relationships with other dogs. It will form close relationships with people but may have difficulty adjusting to it's own kind even in mating or caring for puppies. On the other hand, if primary socialization with people is put off to a much later period. (the outside limit being about 12 weeks, ) the social relationship of the puppy with other dogs may be very good , but he will tend to be timid and lack confidence with people."


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I would definitely vote for waiting. This is a critical time for puppy with mom and siblings. I think your instincts are right.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I agree, listen to your instincts and wait.

Kara


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

agree, critical time for pup and mother and siblings.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

Since the "49-day rule" was made (by Wolters?} decades ago, that idea has been shown to have very limited application; it might apply if a breeder won't continue important socializing work (not to mention extra expenses incurred in continuing care of a litter, and the work of supporting litter AND dam (usually, together at least part of a day-and-night).

I believe laws in the U.S. prohibit SHIPPING pups any younger than 8 weeks. Responsible breeders now tend to keep pups till they are 9-10 weeks old at least.

(And quite a few breeders won't ship by plane, as it can be terrifying for puppies.)

In the last decade or two, more research (and better communication between trainers and behaviorists - and breeders) has shown that 7 weeks typically is a time when pups can be a bit withdrawn and fearful. It's not defined, as far as I know, as one of the fear periods, but in effect, it acts like one. Somebody has suggested that the reason for choosing 49 days was to have the pup "bond better with the new human."

But also, it has been more than amply demonstrated that dogs who are well-bred, raised and cared for, already know that love is infinite, and if they haven't had true bad experiences, they can bond with any good human dog-parent at any age. And, if need be, re-bond with another, say, if human-parents die.

Some breeders; a couple of my acquaintance, keep pups to 12, 14 weeks, and do all that extra work, and the results tend to be bomb-proof dogs. And one breeder I know can keep pups much longer, including up to many, many months, and they ALSO bond fabulously with the new owners. That breeder does all the work, of course, of socializing, teaching, and so forth. (And any necessary vaccinations and vet checks.)

It turns out that if the breeder is savvy with dogs and dog-behavior, and does the work, THAT, along with keeping the pups a good bit longer,is what produces bomb-proof dogs, all other things being equal (health, and so forth; - and also having bred for temperament). Of course, these breeders do not make profits on their pups. On the contrary, they support their hobby.

Wed, 18 Apr 2012 06:31:45 (PDT)


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

Forgot to say - in those extra weeks with littermates and dam, supported by breeder, dogs learn how to be dogs - more, more and more. That is what makes them bomb-proof.

Wed, 18 Apr 2012 06:34:29 (PDT)


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## windfallhavs (Oct 19, 2006)

Thank you Carol for posting! One of THE best posts I have ever read on the forum, so glad that you are here! 

HCA code of ethics states no puppy younger than 8 weeks will be released and it is against the law in many states to rehome a puppy when it is not a minimum of 8 weeks old. I would also suggest you wait.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I am one of the 'few' that got my pup MUCH later than the norm. at 14 weeks (due to various reasons) and let me tell you, I have LOVED it. Not only was she sleeping through the night and nearly potty trained, she has NEVER had a biting 'issue' and virtually nothing phases her. well, except for big dogs, which we are working HARD on!!
If I was to get another hav I would want to wait till between 10-12 weeks for SURE to bring a pup home. This all is ASSUMING that you have a great, ethical, health testing breeder though. IF your breeder isn't doing all that needs to be done, then I agree, taking your pup home earlier might be a good idea.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

CarolWCamelo said:


> Forgot to say - in those extra weeks with littermates and dam, supported by breeder, dogs learn how to be dogs - more, more and more. That is what makes them bomb-proof.
> 
> Wed, 18 Apr 2012 06:34:29 (PDT)


Great post, Carol. Kodi's breeder does a tremendous job with early puppyhood education, and it certainly didn't hurt our bond that he stayed there a little longer. In fact, although I was REALLY trying to stay open-minded and objective about all 3 of the pups, HE chose ME. If Pam and my trainer friend who came to temperament test the puppies for me had said he wasn't the right dog for me, I would have listened to them, and taken another. But it would have killed me to leave him behind.

Another thing I've noticed is that most of the people who have had the worst trouble with nippiness in their puppies have gotten them at around 8 weeks. I think that extra couple of weeks with siblings and momma taught Kodi very good bite inhibition. He wasn't above chewing on THINGS as a puppy, but he never once nipped a person or mouthed roughly, even in play. I've heard the same from a number of people who got their pups a couple of weeks later.

Oh, and Kodi was MUCH further along with his litter box training, because the Kings are MASTERS of their system. That help me, a new dog owner, tremendously!

So, I guess my feeling is that if you have chosen a great breeder who is doing all the right things bringing up the puppies, the benefits of leaving them with their mom and sibs for a few more weeks outweighs any possible negatives. If the puppy is coming from a not-so-good up-bringing, MAYBE you should be looking at another breeder!


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

Diane - thanks. That was an off-the-cuff post, all from memory, and memory is notoriously unreliable, but I think it was Richard Wolters who formulated, or at least, supported, the 49-day rule. And somebody later supported it; I think it was John Rogerson. For all I know, either of these people might have changed their views - I think last I saw was from one to two decades ago.

As with any behavior counselor, or even veterinary behaviorist, I personally often tend to disagree with some of what they preach. which really isn't surprising, because I'm a hobbyist and a PollyAnna.

I THINK Rogerson's point was that a dog changing homes at 49 days would be more adaptable - malleable - to what the humans want of it, than would a dog changing homes later. Maybe so; that could be true.

But - my own personal choices hugely affect my opinions, and MY choices are, to have the dog as bomb-proof as possible - partly because that contributes to life-long health and happiness, both for dog and for owner.

And I've repeatedly seen pups who have changed homes at 12 or 14 weeks - and done super-well. I attribute that to great breeding AND to the breeder keeping the litter together for that additional time (and doing all the work required). Talk about EXPENSIVE for the breeder! It certainly is! These breeders aren't making ANY money on their dogs; quite the reverse. Not only that; they work their butts off.

And - I'm SO happy for Tillie! She REALLY lucked out, getting such a great owner. By the way, I read your thread about Tillie's haircut - GREAT JOB!

I'd go for 12 to 14 weeks after birth, for transfer date. Ten can work, but pups learn so much more in those extra weeks, PROVIDED the breeder is really skilled with behavior. And the great breeders I've known ARE, whether they have any certified qualifications or not! These are the people who stay up nearly 24 hours a day, at whelp-time, before and after, who nurse and manage pups and dam.

These are the people who observe keenly and meticulously, who are always learning from their dogs, including the pups. They go on learning all their lives, whether they can talk about it or not.

Which brings up one other factor - the Internet. It's expanded so much in the last few decades, and become accessible to many (though not everyone).

The power of the written word is limited, but people who are accustomed to observing, at home, meticulously and carefully, can often read Internet materials and comprehend to considerable depths - in DOG terms!

Wolters, and I believe Rogerson, were thinking about what they wanted from a dog; that isn't necessarily in DOG terms, though both certainly had some dog-terms in mind.

I like to start and end with the DOG and the dog's terms in mind. Probably because I'm endlessly fascinated with these wonderful creatures.

And to me, it's always amazing what we can accomplish with dogs, most especially those so fortunately bred, raised, and cared-for.

(Thanks to both of you for your posts - Tillie'sMom - I'm having a senior moment and can't remember your name! Of course, Tillie's name is deeply embedded in my consciousness, because I've been following your threads, and looking at your pictures.)

End of current ramble; haha!

Wed, 18 Apr 2012 10:30:46 (PDT)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> I am one of the 'few' that got my pup MUCH later than the norm. at 14 weeks (due to various reasons) and let me tell you, I have LOVED it. Not only was she sleeping through the night and nearly potty trained, she has NEVER had a biting 'issue' and virtually nothing phases her. well, except for big dogs, which we are working HARD on!!
> If I was to get another hav I would want to wait till between 10-12 weeks for SURE to bring a pup home. This all is ASSUMING that you have a great, ethical, health testing breeder though. IF your breeder isn't doing all that needs to be done, then I agree, taking your pup home earlier might be a good idea.


The other thing that might make me lean in the direction of taking a puppy earlier would be if it were a singleton, and the breeder didn't have other young dogs to help socialize the puppy. Adult dogs often give puppies much more leeway than another puppy would. If I really wanted that singleton, I think I'd want to take it as early as possible, and then I would do everything I could to make sure it spent as much time as I could arrange with other puppies.

I know some breeders who go out of their way to find someone else who has a litter about the same age for a singleton to play with, and if that's possible, it's the best of all. Susan Garrett had a bunch of videos up for a while of her BC puppy who was a singleton born to her agility bitch. She found someone with a litter of lab puppies about the same age as her baby, and got them together regularly. The videos are pretty funny, because Border Collies and Labs have such different energy levels and play styles. At the youngest stage, the Labs were hardly getting their feet under them, and the BC pup was trouncing them and using them as chew toys. By a week or so later, the Lab puppies had learned to give it back, and the BC was having to learn to play nicely if she wanted to play at all. It was pretty interesting.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

Karen- thanks for your post about Kodi and the Kings. And about Kodi choosing you. I just loved that. Not to mention, your keen comprehensions about dogs in general.

I don't really think "temperament testing" provides any information the BREEDER doesn't already have (this applies only to great breeders). I think temperament testing is truly too limited to be useful in any way. A great breeder REALLY knows her dogs - including the pups. How could the breeder not! it's the breeder who is doing the work, day and night! And watching! And adapting to one situation after another - as the DOGS go!

I guess we've all probably seen (or heard of) breeders who really don't have the skills, and puppy-mill breeders aren't even in ANY useful category, concerning observation, of course.

Other breeders vary a lot; we've seen backyard breeders, who tend to miss a lot in the way of knowledge, and designer-dog breeders whose knowledge of dogs is lacking (to say the least). There are great breeders here on the forum; I feel so fortunate to have found this place. I'm learning a lot that's helping me with Camellia, who is a very difficult dog to work with. (But I knew that before I chose her - well, I wanted a Havanese, and couldn't afford one, otherwise.)

And, Karen, you'll remember that somebody here was proposing to be a backyard breeder - and CHANGED HER MIND! Fifty-million cheers for her!

No dog is ever totally easy to raise and work with; I can't imagine going through a very long life with a dog (and they don't live long enough; rats!) - without running into some little hitch here, glitch there. So it's up to us to keep learning, all OUR lives, and working to help our dogs.

What's the payback? THE DOG! Bow, WOW!

Love and hugs, ilcks and wags!

Wed, 18 Apr 2012 10:41:09 (PDT)


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## mariestephanie (Apr 5, 2012)

Thank you everyone for posting !!!! As much as I wanna take him home already, I think I'm gonna wait another week. It works better with my schedule. I just want the best for him! I think we will just go and visit him on sunday, can't wait!


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

We brought one of our Tibetans home at only 7 weeks old, and he turned out to be one of the very best dogs ever,so loving and great friends with everyone be they human or canine,he didn't have a bad bone in his body,he was a very special dog.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi Carol,

In general, I agree with you about temperament testing. However, when I was looking for a dog, I did not feel I had the experience to choose a puppy with the right "mind" for the work I wanted to do with him. And while I certainly thought I had done my homework as far as a breeder is concerned, I didn't yet know the Kings personally. I also had a DH who was only very marginally buying into this whole "dog thing" (he loves KODI now, but will still tell you he has "no use for dogs" in general!) I had VERY little margin for error. If, after bringing him home, Kodi hadn't been the dog I wanted, he would still have been the ONLY dog I could have. If he hadn't had the aptitude and ATTITUDE for performance sports, I would have had to settle for him "just" being a pet... Not the end of the world, for sure, but still a disappointment when I was looking for a training partner to carry on with now that I could no longer ride. Worse, if he had had a difficult temperament, he would have confirmed all my husband's worst fears, and I would NEVER have been able to talk him into another dog again.

So, with all those factors in mind, it was worth me bringing my trainer friend, Katey, with me to help me make sure that I was getting the RIGHT puppy for me. Also, her temperament testing is not some rigid check list. She has years of working with performance sport dogs, herding dogs, and rehabing race track Greyhounds and lab Beagles before placing them in their "forever" homes. Katey and I were expecting to see a litter of well socialized, happy puppies, and that's what we saw. Where she was able to help me was in seeing the nuances of the puppies' behavior in terms of what strengths and challenges they might bring to a training situation.

Pam had actually tentatively picked out a different pup for me ahead of time. That pup, we called the "Explorer" pup. he was very bold, had a tremendous play drive and was absolutely fearless. Pam was right that he would have made a great agility dog. Another pup, we tagged the "ADD" pup. He was happy-go-lucky, sweet, but VERY distractable. If you called him to you, and he noticed an ant on the way back, that was the end of it.<g> At the same time, however, he was EXTREMELY food motivated... much more so than either of the other puppies. My friend pointed out that he would also be trainable, but that you would probably have to rely more on frequent food rewards, for longer, with him than the others. Finally, there was Kodi. He also had great play drive, he was bold, but not quite as bold as the "Explorer" pup, and definitely not as independent-minded. BUT he was immediately attracted to me, and would leave off playing with his siblings to come climb in my lap. While he was a bit more cautious than the "Explorer" pup about new things initially, Kodi would approach them at his own pace, and once he had checked them out, was fine with them.

So then we sat down and talked about the pups with my needs and interests in mind. We took the "ADD" pup off the table right away. He was going to be a great pet puppy, but would be a lot more work from a training perspective. The "Explorer" pup, for an experienced agility person, would probably have been the best choice. But although I knew it was a sport I wanted to get involved with, I DIDN'T have any experience, and quite frankly, I was a bit worried that I would have the stamina for this more adventurous, high drive puppy. (I was NOT looking for a mini Border Collie!:biggrin1

Kodi was a "softer" dog, and very people oriented. My friend pointed out that sometimes this kind of dog will work exceptionally hard to please his handler, making up for that higher drive in another dog. Both Pam and my friend felt that I would do fine with either Kodi or the "Explorer" pup. But Kodi had already won my heart, and unless they had told me that he was just NOT an option, I had eyes for no other pup.

And it has turned out that Kodi is exactly what my friend predicted. Yes, he is a "soft" dog, but that's OK with me... I am a "soft" trainer. He ALWAYS does his best for me. It may have taken him a bit longer to learn the agility obstacles, but he wasn't slow... he still caught on remarkably fast. We just made sure never to put him in a situation where he would get scared while he was learning.

I think the difference between just letting Pam pick a puppy for me and the process I took is that my friend knows ME as a trainer of horses, and was clearer on my personality and goals than Pam could have been at that point in time. If and when I get another puppy, it will be from the Kings, and I won't need Katey's help. I have more experience now, and Pam knows me much better too.

I think that if someone is "just" looking for a pet (and I put that term in quotes because I really do believe that this is the highest job ANY dog can have!!!) there is a lot more leeway in terms of ability, trainability and "biddability". If I had been looking only for a pet, I am quite sure that Kodi or ANY of his siblings would have fit the bill admirably. And in a case like that, I think that telling the breeder about your family and yourself, and your "style" preference in terms of personality is probably all you need for a good breeder to be able to pick a great puppy for you.


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## narci (Sep 6, 2011)

I think your wise to ask the breeder some questions.

Like, is the mother still around with the puppies? Sometimes it could be the opposite where the mothers gets taken away too soon and leave the puppies behind.

But dogs are dogs. each one has it's own personality. Just give him/her as much love, guidance and proper training and he'll/she'll do fine.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I think a Sunday visit is a GREAT idea! The school of thought over when they should leave has really extended over the last decade or so. Great advice, ladies!

Kara


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

narci said:


> I think your wise to ask the breeder some questions.
> 
> Like, *is the mother still around with the puppies*? Sometimes it could be the opposite where the mothers gets taken away too soon and leave the puppies behind.
> 
> But dogs are dogs. each one has it's own personality. Just give him/her as much love, guidance and proper training and he'll/she'll do fine.


That's a good point. Never thought of that.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Wow. Such great info. 

I would ask when your pups litter mates are being taken. Jasper's breeder (a whole other story ;( ) delivered pups to owners at 8 weeks... Thinking that staying with mom longer was a good thing, I asked if he could stay an extra week. I suspect from things I have read that Jasper was left all alone for that week... No siblings for sure, and have no idea if mom was still in the picture. When we asked to meet the mom, she didn't even acknowledge her puppy. Jasper was an incredibly independent puppy, to the point
we thought he was depressed. We used hand puppets to teach him to play and bring him out.

I know now, that Jasper came from a questionable breeder. And perhaps the week didn't make any difference. But I will always wonder if I had rescued him a week earlier if his puppyhood would have been different.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I would have a hard time deciding. I have no patients and I would want my new baby home with me. I know I could do a good job with a 7 week old pup but the puppy's mother and siblings teach more of a tough love and I think they learn more about not biting and security. Zoeys breeder went by weight more than weeks. Zoe in her mind was ready at 10 weeks. I got Maddie at 8. Maddie is more socialized and secure for some reason. Don't know if it was the extra couple of weeks of one on one attention from me or just the two's different temperament's.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Missy said:


> Wow. Such great info.
> 
> I would ask when your pups litter mates are being taken. Jasper's breeder (a whole other story ;( ) delivered pups to owners at 8 weeks... Thinking that staying with mom longer was a good thing, I asked if he could stay an extra week. I suspect from things I have read that Jasper was left all alone for that week... No siblings for sure, and have no idea if mom was still in the picture. When we asked to meet the mom, she didn't even acknowledge her puppy. Jasper was an incredibly independent puppy, to the point
> we thought he was depressed. We used hand puppets to teach him to play and bring him out.
> ...


Really good point about asking whether the siblings will still be around. By 8 weeks, some bitches are really "done" with child care.. So at that point, it is the other puppies in the litter that the puppy learns bite inhibition and play skills from.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

After the time has passed when the puppies have gotten their teeth in (which are sharp as needles to start with), and they aren't so intent on only trying to nurse the Mom, she will come back into their lives more, with a lot of interaction with them. 

I can't remember the week exactly, but it's around week 10. After the scary sharp toothed piranha feeding frenzy stage is mostly passed, the mothers do a lot of playing and teaching the puppies. The really rambunctious ones get the most attention.

We thought Blanchi was really being too rough with Nike, but we watched closely, and she was right. When Nike was about 10 weeks old, I saw Blanchi jump in the expen and pen her and jump back out again, four or five times in a row. She had never done that with any other puppy, but Nike could get too rough for her littermates to handle. Nike was very unusual though, and is now one of the best players with little puppies. Now they are best buddies, and when one lies down in the floor, often the other will do the same with one part of their bodies touching.


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

mariestephanie said:


> Thank you everyone for posting !!!! As much as I wanna take him home already, I think I'm gonna wait another week. It works better with my schedule. I just want the best for him! I think we will just go and visit him on sunday, can't wait!


Great decision! Going to visit is a good idea. I do hope other littermates are still present with the dam!

Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:07:37 (PDT)


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

krandall said:


> [snip]
> 
> So, with all those factors in mind, it was worth me bringing my trainer friend, Katey, with me to help me make sure that I was getting the RIGHT puppy for me. Also, her temperament testing is not some rigid check list.
> 
> [snip]


Exactly! To my mind, the way you went about this has nothing to do with what I've seen and read about as "temperament testing." That's usually a kind of rigid checklist!

On the contrary, I think you, Katey and Pam, together, did a great job in selecting Kodi for you - well, KODI knew! - and that's a big factor in the choice, too.

Looks to me as though you and Kodi are perfectly matched, and because he came from great breeders, and because of all your previous experience (albeit with horses), you all did a fine job. How utterly delightful!

Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:17:24 (PDT)


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## CarolWCamelo (Feb 15, 2012)

Tom King said:


> After the time has passed when the puppies have gotten their teeth in (which are sharp as needles to start with), and they aren't so intent on only trying to nurse the Mom, she will come back into their lives more, with a lot of interaction with them.
> 
> I can't remember the week exactly, but it's around week 10. After the scary sharp toothed piranha feeding frenzy stage is mostly passed, the mothers do a lot of playing and teaching the puppies. The really rambunctious ones get the most attention.
> 
> We thought Blanchi was really being too rough with Nike, but we watched closely, and she was right. When Nike was about 10 weeks old, I saw Blanchi jump in the expen and pen her and jump back out again, four or five times in a row. She had never done that with any other puppy, but Nike could get too rough for her littermates to handle. Nike was very unusual though, and is now one of the best players with little puppies. Now they are best buddies, and when one lies down in the floor, often the other will do the same with one part of their bodies touching.


Tom - it's very clear to me that you and Pam have great observation skills, and know how to ADAPT to the situations with dam an littermates.

Hehe; Karen chose a great breeder! Missy, I'm sorry you weren't so fortunate. Too bad that all of us have things to learn in life, and we can't always learn them in time to get the very best of everything! But I know you are wildly dedicated ,Missy, and THAT, in the end, is what makes the difference to the dogs.

Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:38:49 (PDT)


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## Alcibides (Feb 14, 2012)

Before Lucky the havanese, we had two labs (at different times), the first, a gentle wise chocolate, came from an experienced and serious breeder who would not let us take the dog home until she was 14 weeks. It seemed an eternity waiting for her, but we all remember picking her up and just as we were ready to leave, the mother dog jumped into our station wagon and licking the pup all over and (tail wagging wildly) looking at us (we thought approvingly) and quickly leaving the car. We were very moved by this farewell and this puppy grew to be the most wonderful family dog, loving in every way, protective of our kids, acutely atuned to moods and needs. The next lab, a vanilla one, came from what I guess you all call a backyard breeder. She was a beautiful puppy, the reticent runt of the litter (a heart breaker/deal breaker for me and the children), and since we'd driven for a couple of hours to get there, the breeder suggested we just take her home with us. She was 7 weeks old. Feeding was almost impossible unless we crowded her at her dish with stuffed animals (my son's idea) and she was infantile in her behavior (sort of like a human baby very attached to me) life long and never really got the biting thing (or other mannerly behaviors) in tow. A more problematic though well loved dog. I wonder if waiting would have made things different. Lucky (our new hav) was one day shy of nine weeks. The earliest our breeder said she'd ever let a dog go, but the breeder felt he was ready. He was one of a litter of three and the only male. The two sisters were very quiet when we visited them at 5 weeks, both of them wanting to be on my lap (one of them was chocolate and already "taken" by the breeder) and Lucky was already running like hell, curious and adorably crazy in his behavior, and quite striking in his markings. My dh was over the moon and I went with his choice never imagining that Lucky would be so wildly attached in the end to me. Anyways, it looked as if Lucky was somewhat disinterested in his sisters. they slept cuddled together and he found a place apart. He would wrestle with them and they seemed to recoil and try to find a place away from him (things might have changed in the next three weeks when the breeder told us the girls came into their own but this was what we saw). I was moved by the quick change in Lucky's demeanor when the breeder picked him up; he rolled on his back and melted in her arms and it was apparent they were deeply bonded. When we told her we really wanted Lucky (and this I remember with great affection), she held him and said, "Somebody loves you." and that was that. When we came back to collect him he had had his first bath and was all readied (instructions papers etc etc) to leave. One last pee on the breeder's kitchen rug (those small cotton ones still confuse him), and we were off. How do you breeders part with these puppies? It must be so hard to do. Anyways, Lucky is a big nipper with us (he's polite with strangers) and we're following Ian Dunbar's suggestion and yelling "Ouch" a lot (my husband's is wildly loud). Lucky seems to get it and be getting better at inhibiting his bite but I feel we are doing the work his litter mates might have (or ideally should have) done for him but maybe not since those two sisters were sort of a pair apart. His mother (the dog) insisted on being in the same lap with us when we held him that first day we saw him and she was such a lovely dog, we were excited to have her pup. So I think (after all this) that from my limited experience and with an eye only to a family pet, it's probably better to wait and let a dog learn from dogs to identify itself as a dog. Havanese "babies" clearly awaken our maternal instincts and as enchanting as they are, the lines need to be drawn (I'm working hard on this) for everyone's sake. So I agree with the experts on this forum (and I'm so grateful for their wisdom-what a great resource this is) that waiting is best so the dog you take home has learned as much as he can from the dog family from which he comes. Good luck with your new puppy. These Havanese are fantabulous.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

CarolWCamelo said:


> Tom - it's very clear to me that you and Pam have great observation skills, and know how to ADAPT to the situations with dam an littermates.
> 
> Hehe; Karen chose a great breeder! Missy, I'm sorry you weren't so fortunate. Too bad that all of us have things to learn in life, and we can't always learn them in time to get the very best of everything! But I know you are wildly dedicated ,Missy, and THAT, in the end, is what makes the difference to the dogs.
> 
> Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:38:49 (PDT)


And Jasper is a sweetheart, even if he didn't have the best start in life! How many people go out and buy a "brother for their dog, just to try to teach him play skills?


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

This is such a great thread. I think we should make it a sticky for anyone else who has that question in the future. Wonderful insight and input.


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