# Is it OK if your Havs aren't perfect?



## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

My boys have come a very long way. Especially Jasper with his many fears and aggression. But they are not perfect (and neither am I.) They bark at the door...they don't always come... Jasper still attacks the mail... And neither like their nails clipped... But they are basically good boys... is it OK to just enjoy them and not try to solve every problem? 

Perhaps I am just feeling tired, I got some very sound advice on the mail thing, and it is basically going back to square one with Jasper. 

I feel guilty not wanting to deal with it, like I am betraying them by not resolving these issues-- which would make their lives have much less stress (and ours) but at the same time, I wonder if it is ever ok to just let them be? 

I know I am not alone, so I was hoping you all could share your own thoughts on this issue.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Missy you are not alone, I think we all have things that we think we could do better. All we can do ,is try our best so that we have peace with ourselves. There is no such thing as perfect. Even the best trained dogs have issues that cannot be resolved ,nor do they have to be.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Dave, I like your response, you put it well.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

My dogs aren't perfect or am I. Neither of us ever will be and that's ok! I go through training bursts with them. Sometimes I'm excited and focused on what I want to work on and then sometimes it all just fades away. Whether I'm training a trick or working out a problem or just trying to get more excercise with them, I ALWAYS enjoy them! It depends on whether YOU are happy, THEY are happy and YOUR FAMILY is happy with whats going on.

Right now it's barking! I would personally be happier if people could come in to my house and be heard over the initial barking! It's hard on me and on company and I feel the dogs are overly anxious, so that's where I'm focused right now. Most of this year has been focusing on potty training. I've been finishing up with Marley to make sure he is completely house trained--he is yay! Working on Chingy who is 11 years old but was having mistakes for awhile after she came here--doing great now! And working with Phoebe who is 3 years old, but came through rescue and I doubt was ever potty trained. Phoebs is doing really well as long as we keep to a schedule, but won't tell me when she has to go!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

Kind of like raising kids, you do your best...and pray a LOT! :becky:


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## j.j.'s mom (Aug 16, 2009)

:amen:
and all the love they give you makes it all worth while.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Heck Missy, I don't even know what perfect looks like. Because you try soooo hard and care soooo much makes you just about perfect in my book.
Just enjoy!
Carole


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

My husband constantly reminds me "they are animals, they are dogs, they have animal instincts and can't always be predictable." But, like Ann, I actually think kids ARE harder! I only feel guilty with my dogs when I neglect to give attention, exercise, or skip the grooming. The training is great, and I think it increases the bond, but the only reason I am working on it in classes is to try therapy work. Otherwise I would probably just still be doing the lame training I learned with our first dog which was basically sit, NO, come, wait, stay and down! Oh yes, and shake!! And speak!! Or QUIET!! Just the basic stuff. 

And Missy, one of my favorite videos is the dogs attacking the mail. They must think it is an intruder?!?


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## Havanase100 (Sep 16, 2009)

Missy, I dont even have my hav yet, but honestly I have learned that having a dog is like having a kid. theyre never perfect. What if theyre not the smartest? Who cares? You still love them the way they are unvconditionally


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## Tritia (Nov 17, 2007)

Yea, I realized Cooper sucked a long time ago. But, he's happy...

You're a great hav mama!


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

When you get to feeling guilty about your less than "perfectly trained dog" just be glad you don't have a cat. LOL


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

I think the true test in every relationship is accepting the other person/fur baby with all their idiosyncrasies. Love should be unconditional, like is another story. Lord knows my little Milo is imperfect in his own pissy fashion, but I love him for the very special soul he is.

If any of us was perfect we wouldn't have to be here, so don't be so hard on yourself.


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Missy,
What timing you have with this thread....how did you know I am thinking the same thing?

I came home from work not feeling well around 4:00ish and Casper barked steady at the neighbor that was outside until like 6:00.

DH keeps telling me I have to teach him not to bark so much, and I am thinking today - I should work harder on it.

When DH came home I was chasing Casper around the kitchen with the broom :redface: ok I was also cleaning up the spilled kibble, they stepped on during their barking attacks. But, I was very unhappy with my little barker tonight.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Since we're all venting, I'll add my 2cents worth. I had the perfect dogs. They were so well behaved, hardly ever barked, did the little tricks we taught them, etc. That was when I was working part-time and I was able to constantly reinforce things. It just seemed that so many changes happened to my poor little pups, they are now acting out and it is going downhill _fast_.

I had to go back to working full-time, the DD moved in with her husband, the baby and 2 dogs. The dogs get along great, but it has just reinforced the whold pack behavior. They will listen to me, but that's because they know I am still pack leader. The barking is driving me crazy. The PetAgree was working great at the beginning, but not everyone was using it correctly. And because Kodi bit Julian, the dogs are not allowed in the living room during the day, because my Mom doesn't feel capable enought to handle the baby and the dogs.

Well, maybe it's not the dogs, but the humans who have to be retrained. After all, they are dogs. And they are perfect when they cuddle with me every morning in bed, or when they jump up in my lap just to give me a kiss.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Missy, if our furkids were perfect, what would we worry about and work on? We would have no reason to train, cook jerky, clean up leaves and dirt, and give the 'because I said so speech' over and over. I sometimes think we worry to much about things and try to hard to make them perfect...when they just want to be dogs and receive pats on the head, a treat and a toy tossed over and over. Cicero is not a perfect dog, but he is a good dog and we love him just the way he is. When I complain about him barking at the critters, DH reminds me that I can bark pretty well myself at times.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Missy, about the mail problem. My Pom 'hated' to feel like anything was being pushed in her face. We learned not to have anything in our hands when we went to pick her up. I wonder if Jasper feels that way also. I know one lady that also had a problem with the mail slot. She had a man build her a bin and painted it the same as her door. It covered the slot so her dog couldn't see the mail being dropped in, but she could reach in and get it. She said it solved her problem. It looked about like this...no back...just the three sides..size of a magazine rack. I wonder if "out of sight" would help Jasper's mail problem.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Most dogs aren't perfect..... only mine!!! JK  Something that stuck with me that I always think about- I did a home visit for someone looking to adopt a dog several years ago. When I walked in, I was shocked at the house- horribly messy, the dog had a "potty room" where there were pads but if the dog hit the pad I am sure it was luck. However, I immediately saw how much the woman loved her dog and how much the dog loved her. They were happy together in their very messy house  I think most dog issues are actually our issues. It is what we don't train, what we are willing to put up with, etc. If you don't mind him going crazy when mail is dropped off, etc- that is your choice for you and your dog.

In fact, Isabelle is running around this morning barking at Jim cause he put his shoes on. He puts up with it and I think he kind of enjoys. When I leave, she doesn't do it! Dasher goes bizark when I come home, he howls and jumps all over me, I also kind of like it!

Michelle- I completely agree with you about the time. I am back to school and student teaching and my dogs have a lot more energy than when I was home all day and doing little things with them through out the day. Last night after a long day, it was dusk so I took them outside with the big kitty toy and ran around the front yard. My neighbors thought it was hilarous but they would have been hyper little monsters when I was trying to make dinner!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I don't think there are perfect dogs, any more than there are perfect people. There ARE, however, perfect matches. Behaviors aren't inherently "good" or "bad"; they just are. It's we who put positive or negative labels on certain behaviors. If a behavior bothers you, you work on changing it, if not, there's usually no harm in letting things be. (unless the behavior is dangerous either to the dog or a person)

I DON'T think it's important what OTHER people think of your dog, or even if their priorities for dogs in general are different than yours. It's your house and your dogs.

Other people want dogs to keep all their feet on the floor. I LOVE it when Kodi comes and puts his soft little paws up on my knee for a pat. (MUCH easier on my back!<g>) So I actually encourage a behavior that some people might consider "bad".

Missy, I've met your dogs a couple of times now, once in the demanding circumstances of having 20-odd Havs descend on THEIR yard for a play date. They've been lovely, gracious hosts each time. They are well-socialized with other dogs AND other people.

I sure wouldn't be getting myself in a twist over the mail drop issue. If it really bothers you, treat it as a management issue rather than a training issue. You can build a "mail catcher", as someone suggested. But an even easier solution, and one that would keep the mail slot from even rattling a "call to arms" would be to install an out-door letter box just outside your door. Yes, that would mean having to open the door to retrieve the mail, but if it gave you peace of mind, it might be worth it!

My personal opinion is that you've got two lovely (and loving!) gentlemen there... I'm not sure you have to change a thing unless YOU feel the desire to work with them more just for the fun of it.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I love this forum. You know Karen you expressed my feelings about my dogs better than I did. The are great gentle creatures with wonderful manors most of the time. I am going out this weekend and buying a mailbox to place outside. WE have waited way too long for this and now I must get DH to install it before the ground freezes. 

it is hard when you work with trainers-- all of a sudden you have so far to go!!! but you know, we are already 4/5th of the way there.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

I just consider, my dogs were meant for me with all their kisses, cuddles, barking on the walks, and dingle berries too.........they are perfect for ME. A perfect match! 

I bet Jasper and Cash would be thrilled to inaugurate the new mail box post! Leg up, boys! :thumb:


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## JeanMarie (Mar 2, 2008)

I've learned so much from my "imperfect" little guy. Mainly, I've learned to loosen up and quit trying to be so "perfect" myself! I moved into my new home after my divorce and it became kind of a sterile furniture showroom. It was just me living here... and I kept it neat and tidy and very clean. 

Then, I got this little bundle of love, licks and energy and my life will never be the same! My carpet and furniture are well used and I don't care if there's toys and chews strewn about! We're both imperfect creatures and SO much happier for it!


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## Renee (Mar 27, 2008)

I agree with Jean. When we were debating about getting a dog for the kids, one of the reasons I felt we needed one was because I needed to learn to loosen up as well, and not expect everything to be so "perfect". A dog definitely helps in that aspect! I've learned to put less emphasis on "things" and more emphasis on my family and dogs. "Things" can be replaced (well...except for the solar tiki torches that they RUINED....HA!), but I can never put a price on the memories my kids will have of these dogs in their lives. There's nothing like coming home after a hard day to be greeted by my two pups. They make you feel like you are the MOST important thing on this earth. Perfect or not perfect...


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

There are no perfect dogs. I think we all have a mental picture of what our dogs should be, especially Havs, when you read about them. Well, they aren't all reading the "Be a Typical Havanese" memo apparently. They are individuals and we have to love them for their individuality. 
We had a little dog named Maggie before we got our Havs. She may have been a Hav mix. She came from a shelter at the age of 5. She was a fear biter and had trust issues. We loved her and did our best to help her through those issues and eventually the trust came. The fear biting took a little longer to solve. We accepted that Maggie was Maggie. She learned to love sitting on laps, she learned to play with toys and she learned that we were never going to hurt her. The startle biting and fear biting eventually went away but it took a long time. Luckily we were the perfect home for her. No children and our other pets were patient. 
You have to love the ones who have broken parts of their souls sometimes even more than you love the ones who are whole.


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## Pixiesmom (Jul 31, 2008)

Love isn't perfect, but it's great just the same. Our dogs love us, so most of the small stuff can be overlooked. I just wonder what goes through their minds about us sometimes.

This is the only "perfect" dog. I'll take my imperfect, loving little ball of fluff anyday.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I have often said that I got the dogs I was meant to have. I love my boys so. even Jasper with his moods and OCD... who else could relate so well? I too have learned the lesson to let go (and lets face it...it's a good reason not to have a perfectly clean house) It is really this last thing of the mail and nails that make me feel like a failure-- mostly because of jasper's stress level. It's nice to know that I am not alone in taking the training here and there.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Missy, this was a wonderful topic you've opened up for all of us to consider and discuss!  I've enjoyed reading all the responses, which really all say the same thing in different ways. This is a good reminder of what is important in life. 

When I was homeschooling my kids, and worrying about some disciplinary point, someone said to me, "what's the point?" "Is the important point that the kid learns to sit still in a desk, or is the important point that the kid learns to read?" I've found that a good measurement on many different levels since those days. "What's the point?" (That particular child went on to be my most voracious reader, reading adult-level books by the age of 10 while hanging upside down from trees in the forest.! Ha!)


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

There is a lot of dog talk in this house. My children have grown up with different pets. I hear...remember Pogo and how he woke us up with that reverse sneeze every morning ~ or remember Piwackit and how she shedded enought to make a wig ~ and I will never forget Sissy that thought you were suppose to keep the grass clean and 'go' in the dining room. 

In your old age....you remember the bad things...and the love you got and gave to these wonderful animals. When they jump in your lap and give you the 'look of love'....they are perfect.


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## Renee (Mar 27, 2008)

You are right Dale. We all often talk about our poodle, DJ, who was our "first baby" (who had to be put down a few years ago). Even now, we wonder how he would like Miley and Copper! They are integral parts of our lives, with so much to offer. Those memories cannot be replaced...


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

What a great topic Missy and such great timing. I've been feeling very inadequate lately - dogs' behavior not quite good enough, training is never quite enough, time devoted to dogs not quite enough....and the list goes on... Sometimes when I get caught in this vicious cycle of negative thinking it's hard to see a way out. The problems I perceive - like barking at EVERY noise they hear - is pretty minor compared to the problems I could have. My dogs (and I) have annoying quirks. If other people get upset with me/them - oh well. Won't be the first time and won't be the last!

I had to laugh at the suggestion of you putting up a mailbox instead of using the mail slot. How simple! And that solution never crossed my mind in all the times you've discussed Jas' issue. Maybe instead of feeling inadequate and frustrated I need to sit down and take a new perspective on my perceived problems - there's probably very simple solutions right in front of me that I'm just missing.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

mckennasedona said:


> You have to love the ones who have broken parts of their souls sometimes even more than you love the ones who are whole.


Susan-This made me cry. That's how I felt when I looked at Gracie and thought of having to give her up. She's so not a "perfect Havanese", her head is too big, eyes too small, nose too big, and legs a little too short but in my eyes she's perfect! (All except for the potty thing, but that will come with time!) She hadn't known love, and yet was so receptive to being loved and loving us right back, that there way I could part with her! I love Scooter and Murphy so much but now I think I know what y'all mean when you say, "my heart dog". Gracie is mine.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Missy thanks for starting this thread - great topic to get us thinking. On many occasions I have attempted to "help" Oreo with his issues with larger dogs. Over time I realized that, very much like people, Oreo has his issues and I have to do my best to manage and not try to force him into some "picture" I have in my mind of how he should be. It has made me way happier and Oreo more relaxed. Oreo loves me, flaws and all, and I found that accepting him for who he is, has really helped our relationship. I think with anything, we have ideals i.e supermom syndrome, of how things are "supposed" to be, but the reality is that there is no such thing, and that we all need to do what is best for us individually. If I could go back, I wouldn't change my mind about having Oreo here with us. I think the only thing I would change is accepting "all" of him, from the beginning.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I know there's been a lot of responses already, but I just wanted to reiterate that a dog is perfect for YOU and not for everyone. If you don't mind (or can deal with) some of their eccentricities, then that's your decision. I know that there are certain behaviors that I've seen in some dogs that I absolutely cannot stand! I mean it would drive me batty to have that dog be mine, but the fact of the matter is, it's not my dog! I don't have to deal with that dog every day of my life and if I did, I most likely would be doing a lot of training to change it. In the same vein, I'm 100% sure that some of the behavior that Kubrick and Hitchcock display makes them a lot less than perfect for other people. If you don't like dogs that lick and jump on you, then you won't like my dogs. Not one bit. Kubrick jumps on people and likes to get IN YOUR FACE to give kisses. This is very off-putting for some people, but I like it so he is the perfect dog for me. Hitchcock loves to push himself on you for love, which again some would think very annoying, but I like it so he's perfect for me.

In other words, there is no such thing as a perfect dog, but there is such a thing as a perfect dog for you... and I think you make a dog fit your ideal in order to make YOU and THE DOG happy. And that's what's important.


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## Chere (May 22, 2009)

I love my dogs and they are far from perfect. But, I also love my children and my husband who are also far from perfect. Perfection is not possible in an animal, any more than it is possible in a person. We have had the biting incidents, the habit of marking (which is better but still an issue), one has learned to bark for treats but he wants treats all the time so time to "untrain" him. My best advice is to relax and enjoy your dogs; they will probably continue to improve but will never be perfect. Unless it is something that you absolutely cannot live with and will not or cannot train away, forget about the imperfections. Do something with them that you enjoy, take a walk, cuddle up with them, whatever makes you and them happy. You'll soon forget the imperfections. And, if you are really just very tired to trying to work with them, give yourself a break, try boarding them for the day or overnight while you get some rest. All of us get tired and need a break. Also, can you consider a dog walker to give you a break everyday? Wishing you and your dogs the very best and most rewarding relationship.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

I think of Tori as my "Mary Poppins dog" ~ practically perfect in every way. But, like Lina said, she is "perfect for me" not necessarily for anyone else. Does she have quirks? Yes, but, for the most part, they're what makes her endearing to me. 

I love her so much it brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. She came into my life right after a very difficult time and she managed to heal and fill the Hav shaped hole in my heart with her total unconditional love. She seems to want nothing more than to be near me and please me. She can practically read my mind and will nearly always do what I ask of her (as long as she's not on "lizard watch" ) Yes, she is, indeed, my Mary Poppins dog!


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

another one here !
me and Henry , neither of us are perfect, but we're good enough.
you can only do so much!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

It's interesting looking at this from another perspective. I always worry that my dogs could have had a better/happier/more fun life with another family, perhaps one with children -- or with lots of people around all the time. I pray that I didn't shortchange them and that they didn't all pull the short straw.


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## Redorr (Feb 2, 2008)

Geri!!!! It hurts my heart to read your thoughts about Milo and Bailey. I have read your posts from before Bailey joined your family and I know they are lucky lucky boys to have such a loving HavvieMom. 

I am a single HavvieMom, it's just Lola and me, and we are both lucky lucky lucky to have found each other. I do worry, like all of you, that she didn't come from the greatest breeder, that I didn't understand anything about how to train her, that I created her ongoing separation anxiety issues. But hey, this kid is loving to all beings, and she is loved by nearly all beings. The people in every shop on my block know and love her, my neighbors have adopted her so that she stays there when I travel and it is hardly a blip in her schedule. 

I worry that I don't get out with her enough - so I have a dog walker every day that takes her for THREE HOURS. That is being a good mom. I train her in areas that will help her and me have a better life. In one training class we worked on shaking hands and she would not go there. And I couldn't care less. Who needs to shake hands when you can dance???

Does she have perfect recall??? No. But we work on it and I don't put her in dangerous situations where she needs it. Does she sit pleasantly when greeting a person, waiting to be petted? Hell, no! If Lola wants to dance for some love, she's going to dance. I don't want to order that spirit out of her... But I know the people in my building that do not like her to jump on them, so I don't give her the opportunity with them. I think they respect the effort and are much more pleasant and accepting of her because of that. 

I remember watching the video for Bailey's K-9 jerky that shows Amanda's three dogs all in a down waiting to be released to eat their treats. I felt so in adequate! Well, I did something about it, and I have trained Lola to "stay" when I put down her food. And she won't approach it until I say OK. And that is a good thing for both of us. Beyond that, I love her imperfections, and I am pretty sure she loves mine. 

And, anyway, what would a "perfect" dog look like? Hey, let's have a poll!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Anne, here are my perfect dogs after a game of blanket monster wore them out and they fell asleep right where they were... on top of my feet! How can you get any more perfect than that?


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Geri, your boys adore you. But being the worrier that I am, I too have wondered if my boys would have been happier in a different situation...most of my worry is how they are paired, would Cash be happier with a fellow play driven Hav. Would Jasper be happier with a more submissive little girl he could adore and boss around (I have seen him one on one with sweet little girls and he is like a love sick puppy.) But alas, this is who we are and we are all in it together. 

I guess I shouldn't have used the word perfect in my header... My boys are perfect for us because they are so utterly imperfect---ummm? Giant Neezers among other things, and with all Jasper's neurosis and OCD he is my heart dog. But I guess my real question is... If your Hav has an obedience or behavioral issue are you obligated to deal with it? The mail thing is just annoying, but will it escalate to other areas if I do not stop him? Is it ok to just let him be...train him when I can, give him space to become a Taz when I can't.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Missy said:


> I love this forum. You know Karen you expressed my feelings about my dogs better than I did. The are great gentle creatures with wonderful manors most of the time. I am going out this weekend and buying a mailbox to place outside. WE have waited way too long for this and now I must get DH to install it before the ground freezes.
> 
> it is hard when you work with trainers-- all of a sudden you have so far to go!!! but you know, we are already 4/5th of the way there.


You go, girl!:tea:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Redorr said:


> And, anyway, what would a "perfect" dog look like? Hey, let's have a poll!


The trouble with THAT poll is that I think we'd have so many candidates that we'd never have a clear winner. Every one of our Havs is probably "prefect" in some way... Kodi is sure perfect for us... I wouldn't trade him for any other dog in the world!:amen:


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

Murphy sure isn't perfect but he is far more perfect than I will ever hope to be. He makes me laugh and yes a few times he has made me cry but I wouldn't change dogs for anything. He is my heart dog.


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Geri,
From everything I've read in your posts, I'd say your dogs are living in doggy heaven, with such a loving mom!


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Wonderful thread. It helped so much !!!


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## tuggersmom (Oct 16, 2008)

Tugger is everything we could hope for except for the running away bit. When he gets outside he tears down the street to visit all his doggie friends. The perfect recalls he does everywhere else are lost in the wind. When we had German Shepherds even outside the house they would be thinking "watch the house, watch the people, watch the house, watch the people, there could be danger anywhere!." With Tugger when he gets out he is yelling "WHooooH I am free! Guys, come on lets party!!!!" But,, we still love him.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Missy, I don’t know how I missed this thread. I know exactly where you are coming from. At one time Smarty was perfect: obedience, agility, conformation showing, take her anywhere, do anything. Then something changed, she turned into a Tasmanian Devil when a dog approaches on our walks, a drooling mess around other dogs, and she has barking fits when someone comes to the door. These are considered to be major fear issues by the experts.

I watch all the dog training shows, read the latest dog training books. We had had private trainers and behaviorist work on the issues. It must be me, but guess what I am almost past caring. She is the most loving dog I have ever owned. She makes me so happy and when I come home to the “I could crawl in your skin, I love you so much” that is the best feeling you can have. I don’t want a zombie, and that seems to be the answer to change most of her bad behavior. If I have to loose what I love to have her perfect, we’ll just stay imperfect.


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## TheVintageVamp (Oct 14, 2009)

Smarty said: *If I have to loose what I love to have her perfect, we'll just stay imperfect.*

How wonderfully stated and I couldn't agree more....my pups love me just the way I am, so why should I require them to conform to some standard of the perfectly behaved dog for me to give them the same? Of course, if it is dangerous for them or something that can cause true havoc in our home life, I will try and train to change the behavior, but otherwise, it is just part of the package, imo.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

SMARTY said:


> If I have to loose what I love to have her perfect, we'll just stay imperfect.


:clap2::clap2::clap2:

Sandi, I couldn't have said it better.


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## Lorieann (Jun 29, 2009)

I agree with you on the barking! If I could get my Mia not to bark at other dogs when we go out on walks I would be very happy. But she is only 7 months... I hope this habit or trait does eventually go away.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Missy, even my husband isn't perfect (let's not tell him that though). You pick and choose what things you can live with. The ones you can't, you fix. The ones that don't bother you then let them be a dog!


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

SMARTY said:


> Missy, I don't know how I missed this thread. I know exactly where you are coming from. At one time Smarty was perfect: obedience, agility, conformation showing, take her anywhere, do anything. Then something changed, she turned into a Tasmanian Devil when a dog approaches on our walks, a drooling mess around other dogs, and she has barking fits when someone comes to the door. These are considered to be major fear issues by the experts.
> 
> .


Sandi, years ago my pom changed her personality. After some long talks with the vet, we put her on prozac for a couple of months and I had my girl back. It might be worth a try


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

JASHavanese said:


> Sandi, years ago my pom changed her personality. After some long talks with the vet, we put her on prozac for a couple of months and I had my girl back. It might be worth a try


Jan thank you for the comment but that is what I meant when I used the word Zombie.

I was on a similar drug for a while after the death of my brother. It did turn me into a different person, weird thoughts, not giving a crap at times, sleeping too much to name a few. No at all the results someone would want. I totally understand when they say on the commercials 'suicidal thoughts'. I believe I was headed there on the drugs. The Dr said "these drugs do have different effect on individuals until we work out the proper dosage and drug". Coming off the drug was even worse. I felt like I was in the twilight zone. For that reason I would have a very hard giving that family of drugs to any animal who could not relate to what was happening to them. Smarty is not bad enought for that and I can keep her out of stressful situations.

Smarty became my Prozac, I bought her shortly after the above.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Jasper also went from bad to worse on the prozac. He became catatonic. didn't even perk up with the word "Walk?" 

Sandi, you know Jasper's moods and energy improved once we started him on joint supplements and fish oil. I know from myself that fish oil is great for depression and stress and the joint supplements also help with inflammation (which can also cause a dog to overreact) just a thought.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Hi Missy! What a great thread, it's like psychotherapy, LOL.

I beat myself up for the fact that Heath isn't better trained and socialized (he is growly and a rather reactive barker ) , not to mention that he still has accidents if not watched like a hawk; and also for the fact that he would be the perfect agility dog (he's so so smart and athletic and loves repetitive tasks) but I'm not agile enough myself to do that. 

((We were quite shocked a few months ago when my neighbor gave us a sarcastic tongue-lashing re how much he HATED our darling dogs because they bark" all day" and his home office is right above his yard. It made us more aware of their barking, but in fact, they don't bark incessantly and aren't even left outside for longer than 30 mins. . .he's a grouch. . and hey, dogs do bark. But now we take them in whenever they bark, which is a drag, since we live on a corner by a walking path with lots of dogs walking by. . .))

But anyway. . . I did so much for Biscuit~~outings and classes~~but this year has been insanely busy and I haven't done as much for Heath.

On the other hand, they are the two happiest, most loving guys ever and we are constantly with them. Heath esp. is worth all his flaws in pure entertainment value. He is hilariously funny and comical. We are CRAZY about both of them. But I think they would have more FUN with a younger mom & dad. . . .


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Missy said:


> Jasper also went from bad to worse on the prozac. He became catatonic. didn't even perk up with the word "Walk?"
> 
> Sandi, you know Jasper's moods and energy improved once we started him on joint supplements and fish oil. I know from myself that fish oil is great for depression and stress and the joint supplements also help with inflammation (which can also cause a dog to overreact) just a thought.


Exactly what do you use as a joint supplement and the type and dosage of fish oil?


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

SMARTY said:


> Exactly what do you use as a joint supplement and the type and dosage of fish oil?


Sandi, we use Glycoflex soft chews. They each get one chew a day even though the dosage says one every other day.

http://www.glycoflex.com/glyco-flex-I-canine.php

The best fish oil is Seapet Liquid as it already has the amount of vitamin e you need in it per serving. 1/2-1 teasp per day

http://www.seapet.com/product_info.php?products_id=224&osCsid=1d51d1e3fbe5a27cb6a8948dd959a34b

I couldn't stand the smell on their beards so I use this capsule and an additional 200 Vit E perday (or 400 every other day)

http://www.luckyvitamin.com/item/itemKey/53811

The boys get are supposed to get 2 fish oil capsules a day... jasper weighing less is only supposed to get 2 during the week not on weekends. But I give them one a day in the am and a 2nd dose a couple of times a week. But my boys are big so I think smarty would be fine with one a day. And so much easier if you can figure out a way to give liquid that you can't smell on her.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Missy said:


> Sandi, we use Glycoflex soft chews. They each get one chew a day even though the dosage says one every other day.
> 
> http://www.glycoflex.com/glyco-flex-I-canine.php
> 
> ...


Do you give them whole capsules or break them open? I'd have a hard time poking something do her throat every day, LOL


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

SMARTY said:


> Do you give them whole capsules or break them open? I'd have a hard time poking something do her throat every day, LOL


Sandi, If I were going to break it open I would just use the liquid so much easier. I wrap the capsule in a little cheddar cheese. If you smoosh it good they will eat it whole. I can just put cash's pill in his food...but Jasper needs to be hand fed it to make sure it goes down. It's a pain, but I so much prefer it to fish whiskers. But I know I lot of people who use the sea pet liquid and they can't smell it on their pets... so it may just be me.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

pjewel said:


> It's interesting looking at this from another perspective. I always worry that my dogs could have had a better/happier/more fun life with another family, perhaps one with children -- or with lots of people around all the time. I pray that I didn't shortchange them and that they didn't all pull the short straw.


Geri, I understand completely. I worry much more about my shortcoming than I do the dogs.

Missy, I finally came to accept that there are things my dogs SHOULD do to be better behaved but that I'M just not willing to put the effort into to achieve.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

LuvCicero said:


> Missy, if our furkids were perfect, what would we worry about and work on? We would have no reason to train, cook jerky, clean up leaves and dirt, and give the 'because I said so speech' over and over. I sometimes think we worry to much about things and try to hard to make them perfect...when they just want to be dogs and receive pats on the head, a treat and a toy tossed over and over. Cicero is not a perfect dog, but he is a good dog and we love him just the way he is. When I complain about him barking at the critters, DH reminds me that I can bark pretty well myself at times.


That's right!

Dexter is not perfect, I have lots to work on, it's my job if I want a trained dog. There are things I let slide because it does not bother me, when these problems start to bother me, then I will work on it consistently.

Problems with Dexter.....he is not perfect YET! :redface: I am working on it and it will be a lifetime job. So, I have plenty to do to keep me busy.

Dexter is shy around dogs....but, we are 
S l o w l y working on it. This has become a big process and it is slow and we are actually making progress! While we are working on this process, we learn other fun things.

I have come to realize, I am not perfect either and this will be my lifetime job too. I have become calmer and patient person since having Dexter in the house. I do not let the little things bother me anymore, like a perfect house. I am looking forward to all the dried leaves and grass that Dexter will be bringing in with him during the winter.....I have something to do!

We can count more good things than bad things about our Havs. We have so much to be thankful for and I am so glad that Dexter came into my life.


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## HavaBaloo (Mar 24, 2009)

Nobody is perfect, so I don't think we can expect our pets to be either. I say enjoy your time, work with them when you can and play when you can and love them while you can.

Yes, Baloo likes to jump on visitors and tries to get as many pets and hugs as possible, and I try, but can't catch them all. Thank goodness he doesn't weigh 80 pounds

Yes, he sniffs out and finds every dirty sock or panties and drags them through the house to show every visitor, and well it can be embarassing, nothing has worked, he likes dirty socks and underwear.

But.... I will keep him, faults and all. I will do what I can and try not to stress about his "quirks". LOL!


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## TheVintageVamp (Oct 14, 2009)

heh, they can drag out the most embarrassing things at the most inopportune times, can't they?


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

Missy said:


> But I guess my real question is... If your Hav has an obedience or behavioral issue are you obligated to deal with it? The mail thing is just annoying, but will it escalate to other areas if I do not stop him? Is it ok to just let him be...train him when I can, give him space to become a Taz when I can't.


This is a great thread, Missy. I have the same thoughts as well. I guess for me, there are many less-than-stellar behaviors I am willing to live with. I have noticed though that some things do get progressively worse, which concerns me. So, for those things, when they do cross the line of what I'm comfortable with, I do try to work on those things.

One thing I am working on now is when our mail comes through the slot. Scout will go to see what's up but that gets Lincoln all crazy and he will growl and put Scout in his place with what looks like a chomp to the neck. Scout usually slinks away at that point, letting Lincoln "greet" the mail first. Part of me is wondering why Scout doesn't learn from this and just let Lincoln greet the mail first.

It was getting too "fierce" for my comfort level though, so now I shake a soda can with pennies in it when the mailman is coming. That gets Scout to back away to his "proper place" and Lincoln will then go to the door and wait on four feet. The mail comes though the slot, I pick it up, end of story. If I can be consistent for 3+days, I do notice the training "sticks". It is hard to be consistent, since the mailman does not come at the same time every day, and sometimes he comes when I'm not even home.

Things I don't really work on....they jump up and lick and kiss to greet people. I love this. I know many people don't. For those that really don't like it, I put the dogs in my bedroom when my guests arrive. After 20 min or so, I let them out, and they are much calmer. For those that can tolerate it, I will just hold Scout for the first few minutes since he is the worst offender. Sometimes I apologize for their exuberance by saying something like, "Sorry....they're a little crazy....I blame their owner!"


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Jane, My guys do the jumping up greeting too and I am getting desperate to get it under control. Earlier this year it was just the boys who barked and acted crazy and the girls sat quiet and watched them, like they were idiots. Now they have the girls joining in, so with four dogs it's too much! Marley's excitement has escalated and he will bite the other dogs like you describe with Lincoln. He also jumps up to greet but will nip at your clothes. 

A few days ago an acquaintance came by to drop off some things and we penned Marley at first until the barking stopped, but when we released him he still jumped and nipped at the clothes. This person said to my DH "your dog bit me!" :hurt: :redface: YIKES! Now if that happened to me I would never consider it a bite, but in sue-happy California, someone just might! I have to get this stopped right away!


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

good buddy said:


> Jane, My guys do the jumping up greeting too and I am getting desperate to get it under control. Earlier this year it was just the boys who barked and acted crazy and the girls sat quiet and watched them, like they were idiots. Now they have the girls joining in, so with four dogs it's too much!


Wow, four enthusiastic greeters! I can see how that would be overwhelming. Sometimes even two can be too much so I hold Scout while I keep an eye on Lincoln's greeting shenanigans.

I have noticed that the boys' bad habits rub off on each other. Everything seems to sink to the lowest common denominator...:redface:

I keep thinking that if Lincoln and Scout were Great Danes and acting like this, that wouldn't be okay at all. I have a friend whose Lab will jump up on your to greet you and could seriously knock you over. I reflexively put one foot back to stabilize myself


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Jane said:


> Wow, four enthusiastic greeters! I can see how that would be overwhelming. Sometimes even two can be too much so I hold Scout while I keep an eye on Lincoln's greeting shenanigans.
> 
> I have noticed that the boys' bad habits rub off on each other. Everything seems to sink to the lowest common denominator...:redface:


It's really pretty awful and I have to agree about the bad habits rubbing off. I'm really REALLY working hard with them right now and have seen a little headway, but only for when our own family members arrive. When it's someone else at the door all bets are off!

Since the girls are better behaved, I am penning the boys until they can calm down and greet nicely, but it's still a work in progress and now I wish I would've really put my foot down with the DH early on. He's the one that always loved all the jumping up and encouraged the craziness when he came in. And I let him do it.  I wish Ceasar would come to my house.


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## Jane (Jun 2, 2007)

That sounds like a good strategy, Christy! Divide and conquer!! 

I am afraid to have Cesar come to my house, haha!


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## Nanny (May 18, 2009)

It's all about personality we all have different ones and so do our Havs. MyBenji is playfull and loves everyone. My resuce Phoebe is bi-polar lol..she has a new quirk every week but we love them both so much..my children had different personalities and I love both of them. I went from a Lab who passed too , two Havs they are great.


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

Missy said:


> ...If your Hav has an obedience or behavioral issue are you obligated to deal with it?...Is it ok to just let him be...train him when I can, give him space to become a Taz when I can't.


This whole thread has been a great read!

Based on your core question, just to add my .02, I would say you're obligated to deal with it if the behavior is potentially dangerous to anyone in or outside of your home, or dangerous to the dog itself. As owners, I think it's our responsibility to do as much as we can to help our dogs develop safe social behavior for public situations. For everything else, it's a question of what you're willing to live with.

Pepper has kept as many of his quirks as possible because they are what make him Pepper. However, if Pepper has a behavior that I feel is potentially dangerous, like getting in big dog faces, then we work on that. But otherwise we don't worry about him being perfect. As everyone has already pointed out, none of us are.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Wanda, this is my fear. Jasper did bite me over the mail about two years ago. I blame me. He was already wired and I tried to "settle" him (I command I had not really worked with home in less stressful situations) by holding his back and another piece of mail came flying through and turned his head he bit my wrist Hard. He immediately cowered before I did anything...so I think he knew he bit the hand that feeds him. We were both depressed for days. And we hired a trainer and started working on it. This is a dog that has never, ever bit in any other situation even his most fearful, the dreaded nail clipping he noses but he never bites... and nails make his mail routine look cute. And he only got aggressive towards me only that once with the mail even though I have restrained him since. 

But I am going to home depot today to see what I can find to put up outside. I really think we can only train so far on this one because of the incosistancy of the mail time as well as the fact that we are not always home when it comes so I think Christy's idea of managing the situation is the best. And possibly removing the threat will make him forget about it.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

The Fussy Puppy Gang said:


> This whole thread has been a great read!
> 
> Based on your core question, just to add my .02, I would say you're obligated to deal with it if the behavior is potentially dangerous to anyone in or outside of your home, or dangerous to the dog itself. As owners, I think it's our responsibility to do as much as we can to help our dogs develop safe social behavior for public situations. For everything else, it's a question of what you're willing to live with.
> 
> Pepper has kept as many of his quirks as possible because they are what make him Pepper. *However, if Pepper has a behavior that I feel is potentially dangerous, like getting in big dog faces, then we work on that. * But otherwise we don't worry about him being perfect. As everyone has already pointed out, none of us are.


...Bold is mine...

Wanda, how have you worked on Pepper's "getting in big dog faces"? That's the perfect description of what Cody does and he's going to get himself hurt.


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## waybrook (Sep 13, 2009)

I am so glad to read this thread. Being a new Hav owner, and only having had Panda for 7 weeks I've been wondering if they all act out. There are times she gets so wild we kid about her evil twin "Pandora" showing up! She will bite and tear at clothing, try to tear up the wastebasket, chew on area rugs, etc...running from one thing to another like a wild woman! At that point I've decided she is over-tired and I put her in her x-pen with a couple of toys and her bed. She goes right to sleep! Hopefully this is just puppy behavior and she'll grow out of it - but at least this seems to be a good solution for now.


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## onemoreokie (Jul 21, 2009)

waybrook said:


> I am so glad to read this thread. Being a new Hav owner, and only having had Panda for 7 weeks I've been wondering if they all act out. There are times she gets so wild we kid about her evil twin "Pandora" showing up! She will bite and tear at clothing, try to tear up the wastebasket, chew on area rugs, etc...running from one thing to another like a wild woman! At that point I've decided she is over-tired and I put her in her x-pen with a couple of toys and her bed. She goes right to sleep! Hopefully this is just puppy behavior and she'll grow out of it - but at least this seems to be a good solution for now.


Our puppy exhibits identical behavior at times. When she is the most tired she fights it so hard that she goes crazy. Glad were not alone.


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

Jill in Mich said:


> ...Bold is mine...
> 
> Wanda, how have you worked on Pepper's "getting in big dog faces"? That's the perfect description of what Cody does and he's going to get himself hurt.


When Pepper gets what I call overly confident, we settle him down with vocal correction or, if he's really out there, we remove him from the situation until he can calm down. Once he's behaving nicely we reward him with calm praise and, sometimes, a high value treat. We own several large dogs so Pepper had a crash course in getting along instead of a gradual approach. We really couldn't risk Pepper badgering them, especially the Akita. Pepper still gets bossy at times but he's much easier to calm down now.

If Cody is getting aggressive at the sight of a large dog, you might try working on keeping his attention and him staying calm while in the proximity of large dogs. Start from a distance that does not prompt a response from him and gradually work your way closer. Find a dog park or walk a route that passes near a yard with big dogs and work on getting Cody comfortable to the presence of the dogs from afar. If you have friends/family with large dogs, enlist their help and have them walk their dogs casually by Cody, keeping a distance that Cody can calmly handle while you praise his good behavior.


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

I too think dangerous behaviors must be handled. Other behaviors are all a matter of what you can live with. My girls are mostly potty trained. I say mostly because if it is raining the battle begins. One night I spent two hours outside with Zoey, carrying her back out into the yard for her to go potty. I was soaked and frustrated and so was she. She never did potty outside that night. Now I just put pee pads out when it rains. Funny since I have stopped stressing about it she is more willing to go in the rain. They love us unconditionally, we should do the same. That is not so say they don't need rules. I think they are much easier than kids and will never ask to borrow the car. LOL


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