# how costly is breeding



## kriskrystal

hello ,everybody thank you for helping me make up my mind. I will not be breeding my baby.


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## Susie

I have only bred llamas, but I am pretty sure the same applies to Havanese.

1. In order to become a successful breeder, you will hardly ever make back the resources expended IF you do it right. There are a lot of medical tests that must be performed in addition to other PM (preventive maintenance) type shots. I cannot elaborate on this area, but someone else on this forum surely can. 

2. Of course how much you can sell your puppies for is a thought, and everyone does think of it, but it should not be the main reason for breeding. - A good breeder wants to breed to enhance the quality of their lineage.

3. Just because there is a large line of champions in your dogs/llamas/cats etc. pedigree does not mean it will produce the same. 

4. If you decide to breed, you should breed your female to the best male you can afford. average only begets average. 

5. However, and I am not trying to be snotty, but if you have to ask how much everything will cost, you probably shouldn't be breeding your female. I personally would be thinking about the health and welfare of my female and her puppies, once born. I have been there where I have paid hundreds of dollars (to thousands) for a newborn cria (baby llama) that had issues only to sell him or her for far less. Even though I always wanted to make a profit, their health is paramount and is the most important. I believe that really good breeders won't get rich selling llamas or Havanese.

I will now get off my soap box. Please remember my opinions may not reflect those of management.


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## Thumper

Breeding is VERY costly. There is really NO money to be made breeding Havanese, I am not a breeder, but an Economist/Venture Capitalist and I've built and sold several companies and right now, hubby and I make a living helping businesses become profitable and salvaging struggling companies (if we think they can be saved!), so I really have a knack for dissecting businesses and what can and cannot be profitable, I'd say..most breeders don't make a profit for a few years, and after that, maybe a small profit, but nowhere near worth all the work they put into breeding.

As Susie said, just because there are champions in the line doesn't mean anything. My dog has a pedigree full of champions, but that really doesnt' mean squat.

Is your dog fully registered?

Have you shown your dog?

You should first pursue a Championship for YOUR dog, because no reputable breeder is going to sell you their stud unless you've jumped through ALL the hoops, put a CH in front of your dogs names and done ALL the health testing and posted the results on offa.org. Hips, eyes, legs, ears, yada yada...bloodwork, dna, etc. Which will cost you money, all the money for health testing, and then all the money you will spend showing the dog (that is not free, by any means)

Then you have your stud fees (a few grand, probably), Then you have all the vet bills for the pregnant dog, and then the vet bills for the puppies (another grand or two). Then you'll probably need to take them to get their hearing checked, and if there is anything wrong w/ any of the puppies.....that is MORE vet bills.

Oh, and you'll need a whelping box, and then you'll need to buy all the stuff for 'delivery', and then there's money to register the litter, I'm sure...

And I'm sure there are even MORE things that will nickel and dime you to death. 

So after all that, you may only end up w/ one or two puppies...and in the red. Actually, I think it would COST money to breed!

Kara


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## mckennasedona

Welcome to the forum kriskrystal. I'm not a breeder but the first question I would ask myself is.....have I done all the health testing on my female that will help to ensure that she is a good candidate for breeding. I'm sure the parent club web site, Havanese Club of America, lists the recommended tests for Havanese such as CERF for eyes, patellas, hips, etc. If those are the costs you are talking about, I have no idea how much they are but they are a necessary start. Then you have to look for a stud that will complement your bitch and make sure HE'S had all the necessary tests. 

I don't know much about breeding but I do know that it is a job unto itself and not to be undertaken lightly as you will be responsible for those little lives you bring into the world. There are some terrific breeders on this forum who will know about costs, which will vary with whatever part of the country you are in. Have you gone to a show and talked in-depth to any breeders?


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## Kathy

kriskrystal said:


> hello ,I Have a silver/sable havanese female and between her mother and father she has up to 13 championships in her bloodline .I was thinking about breeding her once she get to be 16 months old. I wanted to know about how much money do you have to put out in order to breed.Ive been doing alot of reading but nobody ever tells you .How much money are you looking at. and much should sell them for .please somebody write back soon.


I agree with Susie, if you are asking these types of questions, I would say you shouldn't breed your puppy. Breeding should not be something that is done, just because.

Having champions in your bitches pedigree is wonderful, however, that doesn't mean she is of breeding quality herself. Is she an AKC Champion herself? If not, show her first, see how she does in the ring. Have you done any health testing on her and a complete blood work up? Havanese do have health issues. Why do you want to breed her so young?

It can cost thousands of dollars to breed a dog and you could loose a lot of money doing so, plus you could loose your bitch and the puppies.

Here is a good web site that might help you to decide if you should breed her or not. http://www.geocities.com/bluegracepwd/virtualbreeding.html


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## AgilityHav

Like the others before me have said, you dont make any money breeding dogs, ESPECUALLY a breed like Havanese. We are breeding our first litter this spring, and with health tests alone we have equaled the price of a puppy, if not more. Hailey(my girl) just had her hips and elbows x-rayed, and it was $400+ dollors. That was just one test. 

ALos, like an above poster said, you cant just walk up to another Havanese owner and ask if you can breed your girl to them, luckly, in Havanese, we have very few BYB(compared to breeds like goldens and labs, etc) so you cant just find a male any where and breed them. Most stud owners want to make sure your female is fully health tested(if they dont, then they obvously dont care about the puppies, and do you really want your female to be kept with someone(because, well, there arnt that many havanese around here, so you will probably have to take her to the stud's house, or ship her there, more $$$) who dosnt care about the puppies well being? Oh, and a stud fee is normally about the price of a puppy(there is about 2 1/2 puppy prices down)

Then there is all of the routine vet bills and other expenses like buying puppy birthing products, and the vet care of the puppies once they are born. Add that all up, and thats about a puppy price(depending on the price you sell your puppys for, which *normaly* ranges from $1800 to $2500 depending on quality, etc. Now your up to about 4 pups)

Well, most maiden bitches have small litters, of about four of five. When you add in all the bits and pieces of money of breeding, you break even. Thats without all of the suprises. Or food. I could add many more items to the list, and I am giving a low estimate, but it is VERY hard to make money on a litter, unless you only half do everything, and risk producing unhealthy puppies. Plus, not a whole lot of ppl know about havanese, and could you really find homes for all your puppies?

Finally, I agree with the above, you should definatly try entering your dog in dog shows, or talk to an experianced breeder(who health tests and shows their dogs) what they think of your girl. 


Hope that helped!


oh, and NEVER try breeding on your own! it is a complicated process, and make sure you can find a mentor who has much experiance breeding dogs. Have you talked to your girl's breeder about this?


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## Cheryl

I think that you have received some good answers from the forum, but I have to wonder why you didn't ask the parents of your dog? Are you afraid of what you might hear?


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## casperkeep

I agree with everyone on here....just make sure that you are doing it for the right reasons.....so many people see a quick buck but then they realize that is way more than they bargained for!!!! Good Luck and let us know what you decide to do!!


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## Havtahava

*Warning: My reply may be offensive even though that isn't the intention. I just want to be frank.*

There are so many variables involved. For many of us, it is important that our dogs show themselves to be worthy of reproducing by showing them in AKC shows against the standard. We also do several health tests with CERF (annually), BAER, OFA patellas and OFA hips as a minimum before we consider breeding them. If you are not willing to show your bitch in conformation nor do the health testing, I think the pups are worth the same as any shelter dog - $50. Shelter dogs aren't worth any less than that, are they?

If you want to glean the repayment of a purebred, then, as a breeder, you need to *do the work of a purebred breeder*. That isn't a payment to make an income. It is to recuperate the costs that you've put into ensuring the betterment of the breed. You need a mentor to help you evaluate your bitch and a potential stud.

By the way, I think 16 months is way too young to breed. Please consider waiting until she is closer to two years old. Breeding is hard enough on an adult dog, much less a puppy.


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## amy-ciara

Even in Germany, breeding is very expensive, if you do it right, with all the health tests, the breedingdogs should have. Medical Care and all the things you need for a confortable growing up has its price. We only use the best food (always, never any industrial made food)before pregnancy, during pregnancy and the best you can get on market for the babies. 
We don´t want to have newspapers on the floor and on touch with their little feed, we had linen and every day I had to wash 5 machines (boiled).(Kosts a lot of energy)

In addition even with my 9 havanesepuppies, I did not get in what I payed before. But earning money is not my motivation for breeding.I do this with all my heart.


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## classeylassie

Gosh I can't imagine wanting to breed. It sure isn't as easy as one would think. Tons of dedication of time money etc. Most of us are so lucky to have had the privilege of getting our dogs from such dedicated breeders. I feel so honored that a breeder felt I was worthy enough to have one of her darling pups.


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## Jane

We walked with our boys, human and Hav, to Starbucks on Saturday morning and met a gal who has a Coton. She said she was going to buy a Hav too and then breed them, but then when she found out the puppies would be "mixed breed", she decided not to. I didn't know what to say. I just said that with the possible health problems that could crop up, I'd want to do all the health tests etc. when breeding. Thankfully, she had her Coton neutered recently.


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## classeylassie

I guess that's why breeders have contracts. I know with my breeder, I first had to tell her if I wanted to breed or not. Then when I said no I had to sign a contract and show proof after Molly was spayed. That is understandable tho that keeps anyone who has a hav from breeding with just anything, and hopefully less chance of some ending up in puppy mills.


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## irnfit

I could have bred Kodi and Shelby. Neither breeder asked for a spay/neuter certificate. I did purchase on a limited registration, but who would have checked. I could have become a BYB. But, I couldn't do that to the breed.


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## jillnors2

Breeding is for the betterment of the breed.

Not to mention, will you know what to do if the mother of the litter goes into distress, or if a puppy is distressed? The mom may need a C section or could die having the litter. You need a mentor and need to know what you're doing.


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