# puppy sizes (how big is too big? -continuation)



## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

This is a continuation of a side topic on earlier thread, I didn't want to _completely _hijack pretty Laila's thread (http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=13859) so I am continuing the side conversation here 



O'Bluff said:


> Cey is big like Picasso. He weighed 5 lb & 1 oz at 11 weeks. Is it normal and healthy for them to grow so fast?
> 
> He gets his next round of shots next week!


Hi O'Bluff - From what I hear that is probably well within the normal weight (he is not 'fat', right?), even if it's a little bit bigger than average (14 pounds definitely would NOT be normal haha!) (If you are reading this for the first time, the 14 lbs is in reference to a typo I made in Laila's original thread where I said that my puppy Ceylon was 14.9 lbs at 12 weeks, instead of 4.9 lbs, lol!). I read somewhere linked from this forum that to estimate full-grown weight, you take a puppy's weight at 8 weeks and multiply times 4 (less reliable, slightly larger margin of error) or a puppy's weight at 16 weeks and multiply times 2 (more reliable, something like 5-15% margin of error? I will try to find the article that explains this). Do you know how big Picasso was at 8 weeks?

People also told me (when I was worried that Cey was growing too fast) that they slow down considerably after about 6 months. Of course, puppies, like human babies, will grow at their own rate, and some grow faster or slower at different times than others. I don't know the absolute upper limit for Havanese weight but I remember a couple of people on this forum whose hav's are close to 20 lbs or even a few pounds more! Ceylon was 3.1 lbs at 8 weeks, so he should be between 6-7 lbs in 4 more weeks, and somewhere around 12-14 lbs fully grown, at least using the 8-week times 4 formula - and according to that formula, Cey is growing perfectly, and I am no longer worried. Linda, Augie's mother, said that Augie was about Cey's weight at 11-12 weeks, and when I asked how big Augie is now, she said, 


motherslittlehelper said:


> Augie was 2 in October. He is 13.5 lbs. now. Although I can feel his ribs fairly easily, I feel he is a bit heavy and would like him to be closer to 13 or a bit under.(...)
> 
> I was worried, as well, that he was gaining too fast as a pup and would be HUGE, but he slowed down around 8 months I believe. I like his size - he is nice and sturdy.


(http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=13795)

-and that made me feel a LOT better! I do want Cey to be sturdy lol.

Also, do you know how much Picasso's parents weigh? -I think that the parents' weights are usually a fairly good indicator as well (Cey's dad weighed 11 lbs, his mom, slightly more).

Finally, I know that it seems crazy for our pups to be gaining weight so fast in the first 2-3 months of their lives... I couldn't believe that Cey was 4 1/2 lbs at 10-11 weeks if he was only going to get to be 12-14 lbs total, but from I hear, that is pretty normal, I guess they gain most of their weight in the first 3-6 months... Of course, I am very new to Havs and their growth, so I hope that other people chime in with their thoughts!!

Also, Picasso is SUCH a great name!! And I don't remember if I told you how cute he is, but he is ADORABLE! And I know a lot of people worry about their dog's shots... Ceylon did great with his second puppy booster (DHPP) and the only after effect that I noticed today was, well, I sometimes pick him up by the top of his halter to get him up to the couch when he wants up (I grab both cross-straps on the top at once - he is so small, and because it's a halter, it distributes the pull and he usually doesn't mind at all), and earlier I forgot that he got his shot between his shoulder blades and I tried to pick him up the same way and he yelped (poor dog, I felt so awful!). Other than that, he has been just fine  I am a bit nervous for his first rabies vaccination in 4 weeks, but I think he will be just fine...


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

in regards to when they slow down, I have heard it depends on the "line" they come from, some slow down around 7-8 months (like my Tillie did) and some grow little bits at a time until they are nearer to 2 yrs.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

TilliesMom said:


> in regards to when they slow down, I have heard it depends on the "line" they come from, some slow down around 7-8 months (like my Tillie did) and some grow little bits at a time until they are nearer to 2 yrs.


I've heard the same thing, except that I heard that usually, the ones that take longer to stop growing are usually 'slow' growers, so they are generally still _well _under the 16 week-weight-times-2 weight at 8-12 months (i.e, they don't seem to stop or slow down their growing at 8-12 months, but neither are they nearly even close to their estimated full-grown weight using the weight calculation I referred to at that time either)... just what I've heard, no idea if it's true or not! And of course there are always going to be exceptions for any 'rule of thumb'. I do agree that growth rates depend on ancestry!


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## O'Bluff (Jan 29, 2011)

Thanks for the redirect! Good to know this fast growth is normal.

Picasso was 3 lb, 1.5 oz at 8 weeks, almost exactly the same as Cey! His dad is 10 pounds and his mom avout 12.5. The breeder thought he will be around 12 lbs, but she is surprised at his size now! I don't mind if he is big; I probably won't try to show him. I think I might like agility. If he is bigger maybe he can survive the many hungry eagles here!

Do you think Cey will get much lighter? Picasso seems to be.


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

O'Bluff said:


> Thanks for the redirect! Good to know this fast growth is normal.
> 
> Picasso was 3 lb, 1.5 oz at 8 weeks, almost exactly the same as Cey! His dad is 10 pounds and his mom avout 12.5. The breeder thought he will be around 12 lbs, but she is surprised at his size now! I don't mind if he is big; I probably won't try to show him. I think I might like agility. If he is bigger maybe he can survive the many hungry eagles here!
> 
> Do you think Cey will get much lighter? Picasso seems to be.


Hi O'Bluff! (Sorry, what is your real name?!) Anyway, your location says 'Washington', is that Washington State? We live in Seattle...

Don't give up on the idea of showing Picasso yet, if that was something you were considering doing (does Picasso have the option of full AKC papers?). He may slow down with his growth yet, you just never know... we want to maybe show Ceylon if he continues to have all of the right characteristics in the next year or so (we have the option of full AKC, with showing/breeding rights, if Cey turns out to have the right traits in the next 9 months... we are waiting to see...) Ceylon is first of all a member of our family, and will always be - but his parents are both full AKC and his breeder thinks that he may possibly be show material, so we would like to explore that option if, and only if, he grows up to have the right characteristics. We are total amateurs at showing (we've never done it before, ever! and would only be doing it just for fun...) but *I* think it _would _be fun, both for us and for Cey, so depending upon how he develops, I plan on keeping that option open.

I also want to train Ceylon for agility! Ceylon is SO active, and I just LOVE watching agility dogs doing their rounds, and I would really like to have Cey do that. I don't know - can a dog participate in both conformation and agility? Well, we plan on training for both, and then figuring out where he fits best later.

By "Do you think Cey will get much lighter" were you referring to Cey's coloring? If so, I am pretty sure that he will... most Havs lighten in color, and I wrote an entire post about Ceylon's coloring lol (http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=13832)... Currently, I wish that he wouldn't change, since I LOVE his coloring right now - - but I love his coloring because I love him, so I know that I will also love any coloring that he grows into, and I know that he will probably lighten considerably by the time he is an adult...is Picasso much lighter now than when you got him?

-Heather


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

heatherk said:


> I also want to train Ceylon for agility! Ceylon is SO active, and I just LOVE watching agility dogs doing their rounds, and I would really like to have Cey do that. I don't know - can a dog participate in both conformation and agility? Well, we plan on training for both, and then figuring out where he fits best later.


Absolutely! Kodi's dad is an AKC champion and also a successful agility dog! Spend this first year getting your basic obedience down, and you'll have a really good base for starting in agility once is joints have matured, at about a year. That basic obedience will help you in the conformation ring too, as long as you concentrate on stands at least as much as (or more than!!!) sits.

If you are considering breeding Ceylon, PLEASE make sure that you get all his health testing done first. That means he'll be at least two before he breeds, since he needs to be 2 before his hips are done. Coming from a family of nice dogs, and even having a championship is not enough!!!


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

My last litter of puppies pretty well have fit into the mold of 4X at 8 weeks and 2X at 16 weeks. They are 9 1/2 almost 10 months old and weigh just under the minimum predicted weight.


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## O'Bluff (Jan 29, 2011)

heatherk said:


> Hi O'Bluff! (Sorry, what is your real name?!) Anyway, your location says 'Washington', is that Washington State? We live in Seattle...
> 
> Don't give up on the idea of showing Picasso yet, if that was something you were considering doing (does Picasso have the option of full AKC papers?). He may slow down with his growth yet, you just never know... we want to maybe show Ceylon if he continues to have all of the right characteristics in the next year or so (we have the option of full AKC, with showing/breeding rights, if Cey turns out to have the right traits in the next 9 months... we are waiting to see...) Ceylon is first of all a member of our family, and will always be - but his parents are both full AKC and his breeder thinks that he may possibly be show material, so we would like to explore that option if, and only if, he grows up to have the right characteristics. We are total amateurs at showing (we've never done it before, ever! and would only be doing it just for fun...) but *I* think it _would _be fun, both for us and for Cey, so depending upon how he develops, I plan on keeping that option open.
> 
> ...


I find the color changing fascinating! Picasso seems a little lighter than when we got him. I like some color, but I'll love him no matter what color he ends up!

My name is Jay. We live in Washington state; you couldn't pay me to live in DC - PUKE! We are in Oak Harbor. We moved here from AZ.

I haven't given up on showing. My feelings on the subject are the same as yours. If he just enjoys long walks on the beach with us that will be fine with me!


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