# AKC - Not! ???



## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

I am purchasing a puppy from a woman who has a two year old bitch purchased from a reputable breeder and an older sire that has not had current health testing, if any testing at all. The puppy, therefore, will not have AKC papers. Having papers has never meant that much to me, I just want a healthy love-bug. I understand the sire is healthy and both parents have good personalities. I have no intention of showing the dog in confirmation or anything else like that. So, what are your opinions? Should I be concerned about anything. AKC oesn't mean much, or does it?


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

I think being AKC is VERY important myself. For me personally---I would NEVER purchase a dog told to me to be a purebred anything without the proper AKC paperwork showing that. Whether you decide to register your pet as AKC (when you have papers) is an individual decision,but I personally do because it helps the organization.

The way I view it is this: If the person I am buying a dog from says it is purebred and has no papers to back it up,then why would I pay premium dollars for a dog that otherwise is just a mutt. Now-I know that many people now pay lots and lots of money for mutts they say are "designer dogs"......but that so called designer dog was a mutt in my day that was given away to a good home. It is just my opinion....but to me---I don't believe in the designer dog nonsense and no one would ever talk me into purchasing one for anything more then an adoption fee at an animal shelter. A purebred should be just that......a pure bred dog with AKC papers that show it's lineage.


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

I think that the sire doesn't need to be health tested at all for the puppies to have AKC papers. If the puppy doesn't have AKC papers is because one of the parents doesn't have AKC papers or one of the parents has LIMITED AKC papers which means they were not supposed to be bred. ( if I am wrong, someone can correct me, please) It would be a lot better if both parents are health tested if you want to have the best chances to have a healthy puppy. Good luck.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

Diann, I think you should be more concerned about the health-testing (or lack of) on the sire.


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

I understand that the sire is 7 years old and DNA testing/sample is required to register the puppies AKC. She plans to neuter the sire (actually planned to before this happened) because he's not as high a standard as she wanted and because he's old. Does this add anything to the picture?


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

This sounds strange to me. Why wait until the sire is 7 to neuter if he is not as high standard as she wanted? Not sure about the DNA sample to register the puppies... Maybe someone who knows more can help. If I were you, I would research more about this breeder and even look at other options. This is a very important decision and you should be completely sure of the choice you make.


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## dodrop82 (May 21, 2010)

It all sounds real shady....I wouldn't go there....


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## Leela'sMom (Jul 14, 2010)

It all sounds very fishy...I did a quick search on the AKC site for DNA and the only instance it looks like it is required is for "Frequently Used Sires"



It also appears the test is $35, so it doesn't seem like the cost should be a factor.


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## Lolapop (Jul 1, 2010)

I have an AKC registered dog whose parents were not health tested. I've learned the hard way that having an AKC registered dog doesn't assure you that the breeder is handling their breeding program with integrity. Health testing is of the utmost importance when considering the purchase of a puppy. My puppy was six months old when diagnosed with a hereditary condition that was surgically corrected to the tune of thousands of dollars. Please don't compromise on the Health Testing.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

I would not be very comfortable about this situation. Mostly due to the fact that the sire has not been health tested. And I agree, WHY wait till he is 7 to neuter?? Does this mean she has been using him as a sire for all these years and has never had him health tested?? 
I would pass on this one!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Back in the old days a puppy like that would be about $100.00 A none akc Havanese is more than likely one that was sold as a pet and the people didn't have them fixed. Or had a litter and kept a puppy and is inner breeding . I bought Maddie from a breeder who had a second litter of none AKC puppys. They were a week apart. They had full papers for the dad but said they were having problems getting the papers for the Mom . They had copy's of her pedigree and were selling the litter for $700 eh . I wanted a AKC Havanese and payed $1,000. 
I had not known about health testing at the time. I did ask some of the right questions but not nearly enough . Maddie has more than one issue. She has coast us a additional $1,200 so far and will be a added expense when she is older. The specialist for elbows said it is a genetic disorder.One of her bones did not set right in her elbow and will more than likely have to have surgery later in life to relieve the pain she will be in. For now we are told to read her discomforts and give anti inflammatory and pain killers.
I say if the puppy is about $100 and you are willing to take the gambel that he or she may have a bunch of health issues go for it. All those pups need a home and to be loved by someone. At this point I don't care about AKC Pappers for Maddie she is our special Havanese and I am happy she has us .


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Yeah, that sounds a bit sketchy to me, at 7..did some health problems pop up in his offspring to make her want to neuter him? IDK.....If you are having bad feelings and instinct against it, listen to it.

Kara


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## Diann (Apr 25, 2011)

Thank you all for your comments. Just to let you know, I did "pass" on that puppy and the quest is back on.


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## Lolapop (Jul 1, 2010)

Diann, I'm sure it was a difficult decision. Maybe if you mention the state you live in some forum members can recommend breeders for you.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

All puppies are so cute that it's hard to resist, but I think you did the right thing!


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Good for you. When I start looking for my Hav something similar happened to me and I lost $400- of my deposit. It still hurts but it was the best decision and I am so happy I did it. You will find your puppy... sometimes it takes time and patience. Good luck.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

shimpli said:


> Good for you. When I start looking for my Hav something similar happened to me and I lost $400- of my deposit. It still hurts but it was the best decision and I am so happy I did it. You will find your puppy... sometimes it takes time and patience. Good luck.


Wow, are you good, Teresita!!! Very few people have the gumption to back out once they even SEE "their" puppy in a photo, let alone once they've paid their deposit. IT's really hard to do, but in the end, can save a LOT of trouble down the road! You are a great example for all the prospective puppy buyers who come here!:thumb:


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

krandall said:


> Wow, are you good, Teresita!!! Very few people have the gumption to back out once they even SEE "their" puppy in a photo, let alone once they've paid their deposit. IT's really hard to do, but in the end, can save a LOT of trouble down the road! You are a great example for all the prospective puppy buyers who come here!:thumb:


Thanks. Very hard to loose that amount of money on these times but I feel good about it. And Ache was the puppy for me, that's the best reward.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

shimpli said:


> Good for you. When I start looking for my Hav something similar happened to me and I lost $400- of my deposit. It still hurts but it was the best decision and I am so happy I did it. You will find your puppy... sometimes it takes time and patience. Good luck.


 What was the story behind your experience just curious:ear:


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Suzi said:


> What was the story behind your experience just curious:ear:


I didn't have any experience on Havanese. I found this forum after sending my deposit but before getting the puppy. The "breeder" was not what I learned here it should be so I said NO WAY. Sadly, I lost my deposit. Glad I did...


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Of course health testing is THEE most important thing...and AKC papers go a long way to prove you have a reputable breeder with a lineage of dogs to prove it. I would of run without having the papers,let alone no health testing.

Diann=I think you did the right thing passing....the right pup will come along that is healthy and at least fully registerable should you choose that.


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## Lolapop (Jul 1, 2010)

I just want to add not to assume a breeder is ethical because they register their dogs. Puppy Millers sell akc registered dogs too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lolapop said:


> I just want to add not to assume a breeder is ethical because they register their dogs. Puppy Millers sell akc registered dogs too.


Very good point, but I've never heard of a reputable breeder who DOESN'T register their dogs.


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## Lolapop (Jul 1, 2010)

Absolutely Karen! I just wanted to make the point not to have a false sense of security because a dog is being sold as registered. Do your research. I learned the hard way.


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