# Low cost spay?



## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I took the sisters in today to get their rabies shot today. We decided on the rabies first because of all the wild life where I live. We talked about yearly boosters . He said he doesn't think they need them past the age of three that by then their anti bodies are strong. I forgot to ask about titers.And he asked if money was a factor for the spaying.

He gave me a name of a low cost spay and nuder place and a doctors name who he recommended. I called and set up an appointment for the 13th . They have different prices depending on whether I want more pain pills and blood work done. Just the spay with a coupon from a local group is only $60.eh. I can add blood work for another $60.00 eh so that is $120 eh plus the shot and pain meds. Total will be around $288.00 
*The vet recommended me to get their boosters while at the appointment for the spay. Has any of you done that? Is that too much for them to have all in one day? The place has you pick them up on the same day. In at 8:30 and call at 3:00. I only have the next day off is that going to be okay? My sister is home and can check on them. *
We had a big scare last night a coyote came in the yard the vet said they defiantly can smell a bitch in heat.I'm hoping they will not come in season before the spay. But for now the sisters are not allowed out .


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

wow! a lot of questions! Are you getting them spayed at the same time?

I think Tillie only had pain meds right after her surgery, I never gave her any once she was home. SHe was VERY out of it when she came home, but could hobble out the door to potty (I was SO proud of her!!). I don't know about only have 1 day off to watch them.... can your sister watch them? Hopefully they'll both just sleep the whole day. DO you have the onesies or cones ready? Be aware that matts happen FAST when they are under stress (surgery) and wearing something to protect them from licking!! You can do this!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi Suzi, I'm glad you are getting the girls spayed... It's the right thing to do. That said, if they were mine, and there was any way I could afford it, I would do the shots separately from their spay. That's a lot to put their bodies through at once.

I actually think it's good that you are doing both at the same time. That way, they will both be recovering ogether, and you won't have one feeling fine, trying to talk the other into too much exercise!. Of course I'm sure you would like to stay homewith them longer, but I think that as long as your sister can check on them, and they have cones or onesies on, they will be fine.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Suzy, Generally the doctors that work for low coast spay/neuter are very good, they do many more proceedures then most local vets. Your Vet was probably looking out for you as the coast will be less at the clinic. I would get the booster if they were my dogs, but they are yours and you need to be comfortable with your decision. You may have a bit of a problem keeping them from playing with each other too soon during recovery.

Titers are usually done after all the core shots are done. Remember that sometimes the titers show low immunity, so your do will need the shot. We do not do titers on my Lhasa anymore as he is always low, so for him they are a waste of money.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I decided to wait on the boosters tell after the spay. I appreciate finding that out. Is two weeks long enough from the rabies shot? I agree the two at once will be better than doing them at different times. I can separate them when I'm gone. But it would be hard to keep them from jumping on and off things. They hate hate hate being pined up. Maddie tries to climb out and my kennel is really small. I wish I could be home longer I should have done this sooner when I was unemployed. I will buy some onesies but do I have to get cones?


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Suzi, I have had all my dogs spayed or neutered and there have been a lot of them over the years (cats also). Rosie was the only one that seemed to have any pain. All the rest just laid around and were up and walking normally the next day. None of mine have ever had to wear that annoying collar. Sure they licked the wound, but no pulling stitches--even the cats. Rosie took pain meds for two days and wouldn't walk, I had to carry her. Yeah I had really spoiled her. She would have done better if I had put her in her bed on the floor instead of in my bed where she couldn't get off. All that being said, I think leaving your pups in their crates while you are at work would be just fine. There is really nothing you can do for them except let them out to potty. Oh just went back and read that your kennel was small. Small doesn't matter unless you only have one. But surely you can improvise, like putting a bed in the bathroom and shutting them in there. or put one in the kennel and the other in the bathroom.


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## motherslittlehelper (Mar 18, 2010)

Suzi, I haven't had a girl spayed but if you have onesies, I wouldn't think you would need the cone. I bought 'big boy pants' for Finn's neuter, which was supposed to have happened last week, but didn't because of circumstances at the vet clinic. We used onesies for Augie, because he was really going after the incision for the undescended testicle, but that prevented him from getting at it. The onesies had the added benefit of keeping him a bit less active for some reason. After Augie had his surgery, someone posted about using the big boy underwear. 

I hope all goes well for the sisters. I agree, you should have had it done while you weren't working, but that is the way I do things too! I finally make up my mind when there are additional circumstances to make things more complicated! Make life more interesting! :frusty: :biggrin1:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

The bathroom is a great idea! Zoey doesn't try to climb out of the x pin so Maddie in the bathroom and zoey in the xpin I hope the door survives.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

The bathroom is where I left Rosie when I had to leave her. That wasn't very often that first year. Anyway, just be sure that you block off the cabinet doors. Rosie learned to open them right off. I used the bathroom scales and a clothes hamper. Put pee pads down so you don't have a mess to clean up. Good Luck.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

Good luck, I'm sure they will both do great, since you seem to be planning everything ahead


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

sort of off topic, but since you are spaying the girls, I'm assuming you aren't looking into 'showing' Zoey anymore??


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## marlowe'sgirl (Jun 17, 2010)

Luciledodd said:


> None of mine have ever had to wear that annoying collar. Sure they licked the wound, but no pulling stitches--even the cats.


Lucky you. My cat had her stitches out on day 2 of getting home and within the span of about 15 mins. She had healed enough that she didn't open the skin. She's a little stinker though. My Hav ignored his stitches. The hardest part of it all was keeping his activity level low for a week.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Maybe it has to do with the vet. The stiches were just knots on the outside and even if she had chewed one off, there were stitches inside like a double layer. He didn't even shave her leg like most do, but that was because I asked him not to. He put the IV in where the shaved spot wouldn't show. All other spaying I have had done had the whole leg shaved. You might want to ask the Vet for minimal shaving for your Zoey.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I didn't even think about the shaving no leg shave ! belle okay. I'm still having a really hard time about giving up my plans to have a couple litters of puppy's. I think I would have enjoyed showing more if I had enough money to just consider it a fun hobby. It stopped being fun when I was obsessing about how white her face was. She hates me trying to keep it white. I also never got good enough at grooming to really compete with the silky straight look that all the winners had. Last but not least I'm a really bad trainer she would put her head down and pull the lead. My club suggested me hiring a handler. That isn't an option. A part of me still wants to hold off and see what the future brings so I'm still not 100% sure Zoey is going to be spayed. I have a couple friends who have been showing Havanese sence the beginning. They know more than a judge about conformation. One even teaches judges. Any way they examined Zoey and say as long as I get her health tested I can use a non champion dog and have a litter or two. She is a good sound example of a Havanese and has qualities that are really nice like her eyes. Her legs and bone structure are good she has great mussel mass. Not to mention she is pretty darn cute. My contract is not that grate as to what I can do with the puppies. They all have to be sold as pets although I could keep one for showing. I am still bouncing back and forth. I don't see any pups in the near future maybe a couple years down the road. So I still need to think about it more. I have had a bad feeling in my gut ever sence I made the appointment.:juggle:


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Well Zoey came into heat today so I guess she wont be going in on Wednesday. I know Maddie will be right behind her . The last two it was within days of Zoey. So weird how females who live together do that.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

I wonder if women in prison get on the same schedule. Can you imagine. PMS on steroids.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Luciledodd said:


> I wonder if women in prison get on the same schedule. Can you imagine. PMS on steroids.


I bet they do... I know room mates do!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> Well Zoey came into heat today so I guess she wont be going in on Wednesday. I know Maddie will be right behind her . The last two it was within days of Zoey. So weird how females who live together do that.


Well, the good news is that even if you have to reschedule, you can rechedule them together! OTOH, be REALLY careful about that coyote situation!!!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

You can tell when they are about to go in season they get tired and lay around more. I know the coyote situation is a real concern. We all go out together four dogs and two humans. Maddie has discovered Bunnies and loves chasing them. So I have to be extra careful.


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## Cheryls (Aug 9, 2007)

You could call the veterinarian to ask if they charge extra but they can be spayed even if they are in season.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

My vet wouldn't spay while in season. I had a little schnauzer that came in before I thought it was time and he wouldn't do it. He also wouldn't give the pill that stops the heat. So get some diapers for dogs and I think the vet will do it as soon as they are no longer bleeding. Maybe me vet was being to cautious, but why take the chance--this coming from a woman who has spent over $500 on a stray cat the last few weeks--she is so named correctly--Josie Wales the outlaw kitty. We are not done with the shots yet, but at least the cost is just for the shot now as long as she doesn't have to see the vet.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Many of the clinic's will do a spay while the dog is in heat, the reason is often many of the people who use the clinics will not go back. Many shelter dogs get spayed while in heat, it's not ideal. They can stop a heat with progesterone. I have written about the group I work with we take dogs to a Vet on Sat some come home, others say the night, often they get all shots, and sometimes they are in heat, some of the dogs are older. The people we do this for are not as fortunate as many on the forum, they do not have the luxury of waiting. Su

Suzy after you wait this one out remember that after two heats your dogs changes of developing a breast cancer increase to 1 in 4, if you spay before a third heat you will have eliminated the chance of this ever happening. This is a risk that you may have not even considered.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Many of the clinic's will do a spay while the dog is in heat, the reason is often many of the people who use the clinics will not go back. Many shelter dogs get spayed while in heat, it's not ideal. They can stop a heat with progesterone. I have written about the group I work with we take dogs to a Vet on Sat some come home, others say the night, often they get all shots, and sometimes they are in heat, some of the dogs are older. The people we do this for are not as fortunate as many on the forum, they do not have the luxury of waiting. Su
> 
> Suzy after you wait this one out remember that after two heats your dogs changes of developing a breast cancer increase to 1 in 4, if you spay before a third heat you will have eliminated the chance of this ever happening. This is a risk that you may have not even considered.


 Its to late this is their third heat.
Here are some benifets to waiting
On the negative side, spaying female dogs 
if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a 
common cancer in larger breeds with a poor prognosis 
increases the risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 2.2 and cardiac hemangiosarcoma by 
a factor of >5; this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds 
triples the risk of hypothyroidism 
increases the risk of obesity by a factor of 1.6-2, a common health problem in dogs with many 
associated health problems 
causes urinary "spay incontinence" in 4-20% of female dogs 
increases the risk of persistent or recurring urinary tract infections by a factor of 3-4 
increases the risk of recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, and vaginitis, especially for female dogs 
spayed before puberty 
doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract tumors 
increases the risk of orthopedic disorders 
increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations 
One thing is clear - much of the spay/neuter information that is available to the public is unbalanced and 
contains claims that are exaggerated or unsupported by evidence. Rather than helping to educate pet 
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owners, much of it has contributed to common misunderstandings about the health risks and benefits 
associated of spay/neuter in dogs. 
The traditional spay/neuter age of six months as well as the modern practice of pediatric spay/neuter appear 
to predispose dogs to health risks that could otherwise be avoided by waiting until the dog is physically 
mature, or perhaps in the case of many male dogs, foregoing it altogether unless medically necessary. 
The balance of long-term health risks and benefits of spay/neuter will vary from one dog to the next. Breed, 
age, and gender are variables that must be taken into consideration in conjunction with non-medical factors 
for each individual dog. Across-the-board recommendations for all pet dogs do not appear to be 
supportable from findings in the veterinary medical literature." 
The link to the full version: http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf 
The same study has been used to oppose the Californian legislation on mandatory spay/neuter by AVMA ( American Veterinary Medical Association) http://saveourdogs.net/category/health/ 
I think my vet who retired at age 75 saw a lot of small breed dogs w.urinary incontinence in older years. I should have done it before the third heat. I really didn't about the cancer. Zoey was very young for her first cycle she was only six mo. Maybe that will reduce the risk. Maddie will be two in July.


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## lise (Sep 1, 2006)

I will be waiting until Ted is as close to a year as possible to be neutered. My breeder recommends waiting until the pup is more mature also.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Gosh if cancer is such a risk, dogs would be extinct by now. And think about all the show dogs out there. Put that out of your mind--there is nothing you can do about it now anyway.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Luciledodd said:


> Gosh if cancer is such a risk, dogs would be extinct by now. And think about all the show dogs out there. Put that out of your mind--there is nothing you can do about it now anyway.


 Your right and after reading the study its not all that accurate. Its weird that humans and dog are so different. Estrogen in humans is good . When I went into menopause three years ago I started getting gray hairound: And my face is dryer and more wrinkles. I also gained ten pounds. Not to mention trips to the bathroom. 
I don't need panties for the sisters they clean themselves really good. When I do spay Zoey is defiantly getting a hair cut! I think she would be cute totally shaved down. She has a cute body for it. Maddie would look to thin.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Lucille, Breast cancer is a big risk in dogs today, by the time it is noticed it is often too late., this is one of the big benefits of spaying at a early age, does not mean 6 months as some people want to wait, waiting too long takes away this benefit. Larger dogs often go in to their 1st heat at an older age takening the pressure to do it early off.

Many of the other things sited are concerns but not as common. They also have new techinques that make incontience less likely. The bottom line is Suzy is holding out for cute puppies some day. Most good breeders would not encourage a non proven novice to just breed a dog because it has good eyes etc. Suzy has the choice of getting out there and proving her dog, she has not done that. Yes I know that breeders will at times breed a non champion, for many reasons, sometimes to improve their lines but, these breeders know what they're doing and have proven their stock in the ring.

A point that is often missed when many pet owners look at the slick pictures, and watch championships on TV, it is the hard work excellent knowledge of breeding along with tough decisions, time, and money. The things one does not hear about often on a forum like this is that there have been many owners that have braved the show ring got their championship and never breed that dog...why...because after being out there seeing the other dogs they learned lots by listening and watching, and decided that this dog was not really what they envisioned for their breeding program. However armed with a championship, hopefully meeting and catching the eye of other breeders it can become possible to get another dog to show from a breeder who would have told you no in the past. Often your first dog is the dog you make all your mistakes with, that is how we learn. Often the people who take their first dog to championship as owner handled are people who have been on the sidelines watching learning (being mentored) going to breeding and showing seminars, these things take time and money, a bit of luck never hurts either.

Lucile, It is one in four and in no way are we at risk for dogs going extinct, American woman have a 1 in 8 risk, we are still around and we have better screening.

Suzy, the bottom line is you have not proven your dog or yourself, I know you can do better.


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## Rene831 (Mar 25, 2012)

Suzie
With all my dogs I have always waited to spay until after the first heat around 1 yr of age. That being said, I now regret it with Charly. I didn't know coyotes are attracted to dogs in heat and I have put Charly at risk on 2 points. I just saw a coyote again last night not even 30 feet from my back door! This is not the first time. We have lived in this house for 21 yrs. I suppose they stayed away with our last dogs a toy poodle and Dalmatian due to the size of our beloved Dottie. RIP.
Charly went into her 1st heat at 9 months. She was 11 days into it the weekend of Memorial. We vacationed at our lake house with my oldest son and his 2 neutered dogs. A chow/pit shelter rescue and a Pomeranian that frequent our lake house. We decided to go into town to the Indian casino and on returning Charly was sitting in the driveway waiting for us! My heart hit the concrete when I saw her. We had walked the fences and new she would be safe from coyotes there because of Buddy the chow mix. This was the first time I have ever worried about an unwanted pregnancy with any of my dogs. Not worth it. If I get another female dog I'm not going to let her become coyote snack! Ill get her spayed before her first heat.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Robbie I was just trying to calm Suzi down. Since all my animals have always been spayed, I wouldn't know about brest cancer. I do know that women that have nursed their babies have a lower risk of brest cancer--God I hope that is true. And of course dogs wouldn't go extinct because they would have had lots of puppies before brest cancer got them.


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