# Need support/advice please!!



## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Okay, here I am.
About a month ago or so, I posted a picture of an "owie" on Tillie's chest, wondering what it could be. It ended up healing up and we just thought it was a scratch or something. We found 3 more on her since then, no biggie, kind of weird, but no cause for alarm. WELL, when I gave her her bath the other day, I found so many, especially behind her left ear, like a FOREST of these weird owies, scabbed over and nasty looking... then yesterday when I was giving her her top knot I found a bunch more on the TOP of her head.
That was IT, I was taking her to the vet. Despite my DH not wanting to spend the money and saying she will be fine, give it time, etc ...

Anywho, we just got back from the vet and he said it does, in fact seem to be allergies. He scrapped one of the bigger owies on her ear, poor thing, he had to get all the way down to the blood.... I was practically in tears. THEN He had to SHAVE (gulp) part of her neck to draw blood to do allergy testing (which my DH had a FIT over when I told him how much it was! ~ oh well, too late! LOL). We won't know the results for 7-10 days, but for now she is on anti-biotics to help clear up the owies. He said they are basically like pimples on a teenager. Her body pushing out the stuff she is allergic too. And he found several more patches of them upon exam, he thinks she could easily have 100 or MORE!!? 
I feel like a failure. I thought Taste of the Wild was a good food? I worry about the results. He did tell me about raw feeding and was definitly pushing me in that direction, BUT I don't know if my husband will be on board with that. Tillie has always done SO good on her food, never picky, great poops.. I fear we are in for a wild ride now. And here I thought the hardest time (puppyhood) was behind us! :brick:

I guess I just needed to vent and to hear that everything is going to be okay. it WILL be okay, right?  Tillie seems no worse for the wear and is such a little trouper. I am very anxious for the results and am not quite sure how to feed her between now and then. Should I just stick with the TOW until we know for sure what she is allergic too? Should I make some chicken/carrots stuff for her? Sigh.....
oh and just to be clear, DH DOES love Tillie to peices and thinks she is a wonderful dog, BUT he does NOT like to spend $$, heck we rarely even take our HUMAN kids to the Dr, unless they are DYING (or have an ear infection.) LOL
SO, there's our story.
What has YOUR experience been with allergies? How do you feed your Hav??


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Feel bad for you Tammy. Allergies are a pain. Wait to see if it is a food thing before experimenting. Patience is a virtue with these things. But they can be resolved. So think on the bright side. Let us know what you find out. If it's food , I would really suggest Sabine to weed it out. She is very reasonable. Wait and see. Hugs and woofs Dave and Molly.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Yes, that's what I was thinking! The vet wanted to start her on Primal chicken NOW and I was like ... uhhhhh, what if she is ALLERGIC to chicken!? Jeez...
Once we get the blood work and know what she is allergic too, won't it be simple after that? (LOL i KNOW I live in a fantasy world, don't I?) Gosh, never thought WE'D be in this position.... sigh...


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

no it's not always that simple. Wait and see what comes up. Sabine never recommends vet foods. She's fixed many dogs that vets have no luck with.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

sigh. thanks. Wait we will do!
Also, the Vet is actually a holistic, "natural" vet and has all the raw feeding brands and what not I read about here on the forum! and freezer and freezer full of raw meat ( gross! LOL) So, he isn't a "put them on Iams" vet for SURE! He was talking to me about feeding her PRIMAL raw.


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## shimpli (Mar 24, 2010)

Poor Tillie. I am sorry she is having those 'owies'. Ache is dealing with allergies too. She is just scratching like crazy. I had a consult with Sabine and we changed her food to a limited ingredient lamb kibble. (Simple Solutions by Wellpet) There has been little improvement but we need to wait more time. Yes, patience is needed with these issues. I think you should wait for results before making changes. (Maybe her allergies are not food related.) I started reading about raw diet, which, I think ,will be the next suggestion Sabine is going to make. I am not into raw bones but I can consider frozen raw medallions. I was looking at the website of Primal Raw or Nature Variety. They have a lot of information for 'beginners'. Keep us posted. Good luck.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

TilliesMom said:


> sigh. thanks. Wait we will do!
> Also, the Vet is actually a holistic, "natural" vet and has all the raw feeding brands and what not I read about here on the forum! and freezer and freezer full of raw meat ( gross! LOL) So, he isn't a "put them on Iams" vet for SURE! He was talking to me about feeding her PRIMAL raw.


not sure why he's certain its' food already. She just has no confidence in vets' generally. They really don't study nutrition.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Thanks so much, glad to know I am not alone in this!!
I'm gonna go check out the Primal Raw wesite! never thought of that! That was what the vet was already thinking of... my worry is, HOW can we travel or have someone else watch her if we go on vacation if she is on raw!??
Tillie doesn't itch much, but dang, she has those owies EVERYWHERE, i am glad I took her in and got this process started!! I don't know how she has been so sweet and not even seems to be bothered by all the scabs and ick!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Interesting Dave! We'll wait and see...


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## heatherk (Feb 24, 2011)

Sorry you and Tillie are having to go through this!

Hopefully the tests will give you an idea of where to go from here to resolve this. I don't know anything about nutrition but I would be inclined to agree with other people's opinions to wait to hear back before you change anything.

((hugs))


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## dbeech (Jun 16, 2009)

Hugs, Tillie. Poor baby.

Did you see the post above about the new Natures Variety kibble for dogs with allergies? It would be cheaper than Raw. Might be a good option for you.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

thank you Debbie! (I just sent you an e-mail!!)
I will look into that kibble when I get the results of the allergy testing back!
I just want to do what is best for Tillie!!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

dbeech said:


> Hugs, Tillie. Poor baby.
> 
> Did you see the post above about the new Natures Variety kibble for dogs with allergies? It would be cheaper than Raw. Might be a good option for you.


Tammy still has to find out what Tilley's allergic to. If it's not the main proteins source, it might not be so simple.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

TilliesMom said:


> Yes, that's what I was thinking! The vet wanted to start her on Primal chicken NOW and I was like ... uhhhhh, what if she is ALLERGIC to chicken!? Jeez...
> Once we get the blood work and know what she is allergic too, won't it be simple after that? (LOL i KNOW I live in a fantasy world, don't I?) Gosh, never thought WE'D be in this position.... sigh...


 What meat base is the one you are feeding now?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Bison. Taste of the Wild Prarie Formula


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Suzi said:


> What meat base is the one you are feeding now?


 How long have you been feeding her that? When Maddie had skin issues our vet started one thing at a time. I know I asked you before but I can't remember did this start after front line?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

her breeder started her on it when she was a baby.
Tillie's had about 3 doses of Frontline starting in January...
I decided to go ahead and do the allergy testing so that I didn't hop her around from one food to another thus creating food issues (picky-ness, etc).
When we get the results we'll go from there.
It is possible that has nothing to do with food and is environmental, in that case, not sure WHAT we'll do. So I am praying it IS food based allergies...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi Tammy, I'd hold off on changing her food until you know what she's allergic to also. Kodi has had the same sort of thing happen twice now, both times exactly at the same time of year. In both cases, the vet treated him with antibiotics, and it cleared up completely. After it happened the second time, he told me he thinks it is probably an environmentally allergy, something that blooms in the early fall. He said that we should just continue to watch for it, as it may come back at the same time every year. 

Kodi's case, it certainly ISN'T food related, because he's been on the same food all along.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Very interesting, thank you Karen!! Good to know that this has happened to another Hav!!
I asked the vet about the fact that her food hasn't changed at all and he said that sometimes it takes awhile to build up in thier system.?
Hope I didn't just get duped into unnecesary blood work! I guess it's good to rule it out though.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

This could be out in left field but could it be the shampoo you're using on her, or anything topical?


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

not out in left feild! all guesses are good till we figure it out!
I am a creature of habit and don't change many things, including her shampoo/conditioner. Haven't change it or her food. The only thing "new" that I have introduced that I can think of is the Bully Sticks. So, i am praying that maybe, just maybe that IS it.... otherwise, I bet it is pollen or something environmental like that...?


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## z8alia (Mar 31, 2011)

Sorry that Tillie is going through this, she will be ok. My human children had severe allergies and were tested, and are thriving and fine. We just had to identify the allergen and then it was all uphill =). Our husbands are very similar - good for you for pursuing the testing. Thinking of you and Tillie!!


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Tammy, 
I hope you get to the bottom of this. My guys had a reaction like this to K-9 Advantix. They had sores all over their undercarriage. The vet put them on meds but it wasn't until the Advantx got out of the system that it cleared up. I wonder if she developed an allergy to frontline? If it turns out it's not the bullystick, maybe it could be this?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> Very interesting, thank you Karen!! Good to know that this has happened to another Hav!!
> I asked the vet about the fact that her food hasn't changed at all and he said that sometimes it takes awhile to build up in thier system.?
> Hope I didn't just get duped into unnecesary blood work! I guess it's good to rule it out though.


It's absolutely true that allergies can start after many exposures to a substance. (in fact, you CAN'T have an allergic reaction to a FIRST exposure to a substance, if I understand correctly) Tillie's problem could be the food. My point was that it could also be something in the environment OTHER than the food.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> not out in left feild! all guesses are good till we figure it out!
> I am a creature of habit and don't change many things, including her shampoo/conditioner. Haven't change it or her food. The only thing "new" that I have introduced that I can think of is the Bully Sticks. So, i am praying that maybe, just maybe that IS it.... otherwise, I bet it is pollen or something environmental like that...?


Well, it certainly is a high pollen time of year!

Kodi is sensitive to beef for sure, so no bully sticks for him!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I hope it's not the Frontline! IF it is, what else could we safely use!!??


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> I hope it's not the Frontline! IF it is, what else could we safely use!!??


I think you need to take a deep breath and clam down until you figure out what it is.<g> Start with the most likely things and work up from there. Besides getting the test results back, I think it will be telling whether she is cured by one round of antibiotics. BTW, I was told the reason for the antibiotics is that what you see on the skin is a secondary infection... either strep or staph, both of which are common in every environment, and fortunately, both of which are sensitive to the same antibiotics. So it doesn't matter whether you find out exactly what the infection is... you just treat it.

If it doesn't come back again, or if it doesn't come back until much later, it's unlikely to be something you are commonly using on her or feeding her. Then it's more likely to be a seasonal environmental allergy. If it DOES come back soon, you have to start looking more closely to the things in her every day environment.

Another thing to be aware of with allergy testing (so it doesn't freak you out!) is that when a person or animal is in the midst of a heavy allergy attack, they often test as "allergic" to things that probably wouldn't bother them at another time. That's why you hear so many people say, "He's allergic to EVERYTHING!"... because the person or animal's TESTING showed a reaction to MANY different allergens.

My horse had a couple of severe allergic reactions when he was young, and we had to do allergy testing. He was reactive to MANY things, including almost every type of grain. (not good with horses, as herbivores, it's hard to develop a well balanced "grain free" diet for a working animal) AND alfalfa, which is present in MANY hay mixes. He was also highly reactive to all sorts of bug bites. There was no way to keep him away from everything he was reactive to, so we worked on the things he was MOST reactive to. (alfalfa and bugs) We kept him in during times of high bug activity, with a fan on him and regular use of insect repellents, and completely took alfalfa out of his diet. (a REAL challenge, as many supplements for horses are also alfalfa based) Then we started him on allergy shots. Over time, he got to the point where the ONLY thing he reacts to on a clinical level is alfalfa. Keeping him away from ONE allergen is much easier than if we had tried to keep him away from everything he showed as allergic to. (which, with a horse living outdoors would have been completely impossible)


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Thanks for the insight Karen!!
Like I've said, for now we just have to wait and see, I'm not freaking out. much. LOL


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## HollyK (May 15, 2011)

TilliesMom said:


> Thanks so much, glad to know I am not alone in this!!
> I'm gonna go check out the Primal Raw wesite! never thought of that! That was what the vet was already thinking of... my worry is, HOW can we travel or have someone else watch her if we go on vacation if she is on raw!??
> Tillie doesn't itch much, but dang, she has those owies EVERYWHERE, i am glad I took her in and got this process started!! I don't know how she has been so sweet and not even seems to be bothered by all the scabs and ick!


Hello I am new to the forum and to Havanese in general (Have my first and I"m sure not last puppy now, about 14 weeks old). I have 2 other dogs and have been feeding them the Primal Raw, mostly because my vet is very holistic and my one dog is soooo picky. I am very interested in feeding the best foods I can to my dogs and cats (cats are grain free and so healthy).
I feed both Orijen dry and the Primal medallions and it is NOT bad at all. I just get some out of the freezer the day before and defrost in the refrigerator. I do microwave just a bit, mostly for my own benefit since I hate the thought of offering really cold food. I don't cook it, just knock off the chill. I don't find feeding this to be really all that much different than feeding canned foods.
If I'm traveling by car, I put the bag in a cooler with freezer blocks. Or if you're traveling by air, just look for pet stores in the area you are visiting that carry it. Primal is much easier to find than the previous brand I was using. 
My pet sitter doesn't protest at all about the raw, it's really no different than opening a can of wet food. I've introduced this food slowly to my puppy by HIS request and he loves it and I've had no tummy issues (I do mix it with his dry food).


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## HollyK (May 15, 2011)

TilliesMom said:


> I hope it's not the Frontline! IF it is, what else could we safely use!!??


One other comment on this, my vet suggested I try cedar oil spray.
It is way more inconvenient as you have to rub it into their coats often and you do have the cedar closet smell in your house, but its supposed to repel fleas and ticks. I'm still trying to figure out where to do the spraying as it gets all over the floor. Guess outside, if its not windy. I haven't used that long yet so can't really say if effective or not but its an option if you find Frontline to be the problem. I'd never heard of this before this spring.


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## clare (Feb 6, 2010)

Oh dear poor Tillie and you, hope they are able to trace the source of these baddies Tillie has, and that everything clears up soon.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Thanks Clare. 
Sadly the spots (2!) that they shaved to do the blood work do NOT look good, I think they freaking shaved her SKIN not just her HAIR! Poor thing, she wouldn't even let me put some neosporin on it it hurts so much.  geeeeeezzzz.... :frusty:


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

according to djangos first vet, revolution is the only flea/heartworm that has no beef in it. weird, i know, beef in these products but when django was diagnosed as a puppy with beef allergy, the vet told me to use nothing but revolution. maybe it's worth the switch.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Wow, I had no idea Frontline has beef in it! crazy!!
Thanks for the heads up! Hopefully we'll have the results by the end of the week.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

:ranger: Patiently awaiting the results. The shaved areas...are they bleeding or does it look like a bruise? I hope Tillie is feeling better.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

well the shaved areas were bleeding, like a road rash type of owie...about as big as my pinkie finger nail. I am putting neosporin on those areas. In doing so I discovered a MUCH darker area uunder the shaved part... assuming it is a bad bruise. poor little girl.  She seems to be feeling great harassing and chasing one of the cats as I type. LOL
Results of the allergy testing should be in by Friday. I hope.


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## littlebuddy (May 30, 2007)

poor pup! i am sure all will be okay and there will be an easy fix to what's going on with your dog. it's so hard to see them like this but they alays seem to be in good spirits!


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## StarrLhasa (Jun 6, 2010)

Hi, Tammy:

I had been using Frontline on my two dogs and had a couple of problems with it. First, they both had fleas within two weeks of application [when the dose should have worked for a month at least], so the batch may have been less than effective. Second, the oils attracted so much dirt that their white looked really grey.

The Vet prescribed Comfortis, which is in pill form, which kills fleas in half an hour or less. After a bath, their coats were once again clean and fluffy and they have remained so since.

Just a little more information to add to your ever-increasing information load. :biggrin1:


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

thank you for that info!
I have read some concerning information on Comfortis regarding seizures... are any other Havs on the forum on it??


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> thank you for that info!
> I have read some concerning information on Comfortis regarding seizures... are any other Havs on the forum on it??


We don't use it because ticks are a bigger problem here, and it doesn't stop ticks. But I know there are LOTS of people on the forum that do use it. I seem to think most of them are in the South East where fleas abound.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

okay, so STILL no word from the Dr about the allergy test. :frusty:
BUT she is done with her course of anti biotics and her sores are nearly all healed up, athough I am NOT looking forward to bath day and trying to get all those scabs out of her hair!  The big black/purple 'bruise' under the shaved part is almost back to normal color and the 'road rash' areas where they Shaved her SKIN are still healing, but they are dried up and scabbed and looking good.

I'll let you all know when I hear back from the vet regarding allergy test details!!


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

Okay, vet just called to tell me the blood work is back. STILL have to wait for the results though. Appt tomorrow afternoon.
and Tillie is doing great! all better!!
I have to bring her with me so the vet can check her sores and what not, but I am not looking forward to it. Poor girl was violated in more than 2 ways, shaved raw, stuck 3 times and had a sore scrapped to the "juice" ... I wouldn't want to go back either!!  I'll let ya'll know how it goes!


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