# 8 week old biting



## MargaretMarie (May 30, 2020)

We brought Maggie home on Friday. She’s been doing the normal trying to chew on our hands and feet. But today, she has been biting at everything all day. My daughter can’t even sit on the floor without Maggie biting her legs. She bites at my ankles the whole time I’m walking. She bites the bottom of my youngest dress. She bites at our face if we are holding her. And it’s not a soft little nip like it is been, it’s a bite. And those little teeth hurt! It’s really been out of control all day and now one of my kids is scared to be on the ground or walk if Maggie isn’t in her ex pen. She has spent the majority of her day in “time out” in her ex pen. With four kids, I cannot tolerate a dog that bites. Is this normal? Anything we can do about it?


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## stephsu (Apr 27, 2020)

Hi, I am sure many experienced people will chime in here but I wanted to share this for the moment. My apologies that I can't remember who it was that posted about this but I have been watching videos on YouTube by KikoPup. She explains everything very clearly and I am learning a ton! We are bringing our first puppy home in just under 2 weeks and I am trying to learn everything I can! She has a couple of videos on biting. Perhaps they would be helpful for you to watch. 



 and 



 Good luck.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It IS normal puppy behavior, and it WILL go away, whether you do anything about it or not. That said, you don’t have to put up with getting punctured either. It’s really hard with kids, but TRY to get them not to react, because that will just encourage her, because SHE thinks it’s a game. As many times as it takes, EVERY time she does it, pop her into her pen, even if it’s inly for 30 seconds. She WILL eventually get the message that all fun stops if she can’t keep her teeth off people. But you have to be absolutely consistent and persistent!

Welcome to life with a little puppy! Take heart that this has NOTHING to do with “real” biting/aggression, it’s JUST puppy stuff, and it WILL go away.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

MargaretMarie said:


> We brought Maggie home on Friday. She's been doing the normal trying to chew on our hands and feet. But today, she has been biting at everything all day. My daughter can't even sit on the floor without Maggie biting her legs. She bites at my ankles the whole time I'm walking. She bites the bottom of my youngest dress. She bites at our face if we are holding her. And it's not a soft little nip like it is been, it's a bite. And those little teeth hurt! It's really been out of control all day and now one of my kids is scared to be on the ground or walk if Maggie isn't in her ex pen. She has spent the majority of her day in "time out" in her ex pen. With four kids, I cannot tolerate a dog that bites. Is this normal? Anything we can do about it?


She will be doing this for a while. It's totally normal. There are management techniques, such as the video posted. But this is not a dog that bites, she's a puppy teething and exploring her world. Putting her in time out all day is not going to help. She can't make the connection. I would do that when she's absolutely CRAZY but you are far better removing YOURSELF or the kids from the situation, because then she is more likely to get the idea that biting equals no play if the playmate leaves vs her being put in the pen. I would literally turn around and step in Oliver's ex-pen and completely ignore him if he was in a milder state where he could see, well, she doesn't really appreciate that kind of play. That said, Oliver play bit especially at clothes for many months. Some are mouthier than others and YES it hurts! I feel you! I have SIX kids and they made it WORSE with Oliver, our first puppy. Kids dangle fingers in their faces etc and puppies see them as chew toys. The main issue is that will prolong the biting. He bit at my kids and their clothing MUCH longer than he did me because they made it so fun! Squealing and jumping around. He figured they were like his littermates. We have a new puppy and I am managing my children much better, but I expect the puppy will be the same! Maybe we'll make it through with fewer damaged articles of clothing, lol

To be perfectly honest, play biting is FAR better than NOT biting ever. Because an 8 week old biting is totally normal, and the bite inhibition they learn over the next few months will help ensure that if your dog is ever in a REAL biting situation it will not do damage. Example: I accidentally pulled at a mat on my dog's fur while grooming. He GENTLY mouthed my hand. This was a warning, but only because I recognized it as such. So the first goal is to teach bite inhibition. In my experience, this isn't going to fully resolve until she's done teething. They do have razor sharp teeth! But she isn't PURPOSELY trying to hurt the kids.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

And I will add--yes put her in the pen for short intervals and make sure she NAPS enough. That can be a problem in households with kids, too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> And I will add--yes put her in the pen for short intervals and make sure she NAPS enough. That can be a problem in households with kids, too.


Yes, yes, yes!!! Puppies, just like children, will rev themselves up WAY past their need for rest and sleep. Sometimes you NEED to enforce rest and nap time Overtired, over-wound puppies are the WORST!!! Devil-puppies!!! LOL!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

krandall said:


> Yes, yes, yes!!! Puppies, just like children, will rev themselves up WAY past their need for rest and sleep. Sometimes you NEED to enforce rest and nap time Overtired, over-wound puppies are the WORST!!! Devil-puppies!!! LOL!


And puppies are easier to get down for naps than toddlers lol. Even Oliver, still being adolescent, won't always go lay on a bed in the living room to sleep with all of us home and stuff going on. I have to take him to my office to get him to sleep under the desk. He gets crazy STILL if he's up too much!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Yes, it's normal for a puppy. The time from about 7 to 9 weeks is when their Mother teaches them about biting. She will play with her babies, and if one bites too hard, she'll Nail it. Some things we can't teach them as easily as other dogs can. 

The Mother's don't have much to do with them, as soon as they get teeth, but once the milk supply is dried up, she'll spend time with them again. Nursing is over with as soon as those sharp teeth emerge.

Our pack helps with this too. The other dogs enjoy playing with the puppies, but won't tolerate being bitten by those sharp teeth. Ours don't leave here until after 9 weeks, which is also the age of their first shots, according to the Dodds protocol.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> And puppies are easier to get down for naps than toddlers lol. Even Oliver, still being adolescent, won't always go lay on a bed in the living room to sleep with all of us home and stuff going on. I have to take him to my office to get him to sleep under the desk. He gets crazy STILL if he's up too much!


And it's not illegal to lock them in a crate! ound:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> Our pack helps with this too. The other dogs enjoy playing with the puppies, but won't tolerate being bitten by those sharp teeth. Ours don't leave here until after 9 weeks, which is also the age of their first shots, according to the Dodds protocol.


Kodi never got that message LOL!... He would let Pixel hang from his ears and even his LIPS by her little needle-sharp teeth and just whimper for help! Silly, gentle, boy! I just had to separate them when she got to be too much for him. Then one day (she was probably about 20 weeks) she lost her "puppy license". She bit him one too many times. He turned and ROARED in her face. Just once. Didn't touch her, just yelled in her face. From then on, she was much more gentle with him! LOL!

HE learned from raising Pixel too, though... He never accepted that kind of abuse from Panda. He would just grump at her, and she'd run off to find Pixel to play with... who, at only 8 months older, was still "puppyish" enough to put up with her antics!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Yeah, the older dogs can be very effective at getting their point across to the little ones, and neither they, nor the puppy, will hold a grudge, or even react to it for more than a few seconds. It's hard for people to be that effective, without causing more damage to the puppy psyche.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Tom King said:


> Yes, it's normal for a puppy. The time from about 7 to 9 weeks is when their Mother teaches them about biting. She will play with her babies, and if one bites too hard, she'll Nail it. Some things we can't teach them as easily as other dogs can.
> 
> The Mother's don't have much to do with them, as soon as they get teeth, but once the milk supply is dried up, she'll spend time with them again. Nursing is over with as soon as those sharp teeth emerge.
> 
> Our pack helps with this too. The other dogs enjoy playing with the puppies, but won't tolerate being bitten by those sharp teeth. Ours don't leave here until after 9 weeks, which is also the age of their first shots, according to the Dodds protocol.


I have no idea what happened with Oliver, who stayed with the breeder for twelve weeks. She sent me plenty of pics with him playing with mom and one brother. And she socialized him pretty well within her family. Her own daughter burst into tears when I picked him up. He play bit till he was completely done teething. I know my kids reinforced the behavior to a degree.. she's same breeder we have with our new puppy, who is a bit over 8 weeks and who knows what will happen with the biting, but currently I can redirect it, I also insist she naps OFTEN. Probably my fault not having had a puppy in so long, but I do think her temperament is legitimately different. I had to hold her up cleaning poop off her butt and she was like meh, no biggie. Oliver would have struggled and fought me. I guess one benefit is maybe he won't let her bite him. Currently she bounds over to play and he walks away though!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> I have no idea what happened with Oliver, who stayed with the breeder for twelve weeks. She sent me plenty of pics with him playing with mom and one brother. And she socialized him pretty well within her family. Her own daughter burst into tears when I picked him up. He play bit till he was completely done teething. I know my kids reinforced the behavior to a degree.. she's same breeder we have with our new puppy, who is a bit over 8 weeks and who knows what will happen with the biting, but currently I can redirect it, I also insist she naps OFTEN. Probably my fault not having had a puppy in so long, but I do think her temperament is legitimately different. I had to hold her up cleaning poop off her butt and she was like meh, no biggie. Oliver would have struggled and fought me. I guess one benefit is maybe he won't let her bite him. Currently she bounds over to play and he walks away though!


I do think some is individual temperament as well as how they are raised and how long they stay with their litter. Panda was part of a litter of 9. (actually 11, but two didn't make it) She has always had a VERY soft mouth. To the point that I still play games with her mouth with my hand where I "play bite at her with my hand, and she does it back. She never puts the TINIEST pressure on skin. And she never did... even as a small puppy. But that was not uniform among her 8 siblings. Many of us stayed in touch, and I remember several of the families asking for help because they had TERRIBLY "sharky" puppies while others of us had gentle mouthed babies. The breeder, who is a friend of mine, said she had an idea which ones might be "sharky" based on which ones were constantly causing the others to shriek in the play area. But it was her first litter, so she hadn't been sure. She WAS careful not to place those puppies in families with small children! LOL! (and they DID _ALL_ grow out of it! LOL!)


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

krandall said:


> I do think some is individual temperament as well as how they are raised and how long they stay with their litter. Panda was part of a litter of 9. (actually 11, but two didn't make it) She has always had a VERY soft mouth. To the point that I still play games with her mouth with my hand where I "play bite at her with my hand, and she does it back. She never puts the TINIEST pressure on skin. And she never did... even as a small puppy. But that was not uniform among her 8 siblings. Many of us stayed in touch, and I remember several of the families asking for help because they had TERRIBLY "sharky" puppies while others of us had gentle mouthed babies. The breeder, who is a friend of mine, said she had an idea which ones might be "sharky" based on which ones were constantly causing the others to shriek in the play area. But it was her first litter, so she hadn't been sure. She WAS careful not to place those puppies in families with small children! LOL! (and they DID _ALL_ grow out of it! LOL!)


He did grow out of it. Thank God! I'm now worried because Roxie is one of only a litter of three. LOL. She is soooo chill, and will mouth but if I give her something else she'll chew that. We shall see, as she isn't 100% at home here yet! The breeder did say she expected her to stay small as the smallest in the litter AND being a smallish litter she was getting more than her share of milk. I hadn't heard that, but I guess it makes sense. Do they get less socialization with puppies if there is a smaller litter or does it matter in the long run? I was thinking a litter of only ONE would probably be less than ideal. At least she has two sisters. Oliver had 3 or 4 brothers and they loved each other. I felt like 12 weeks was actually very late because his adaptation was slower and he seemed to miss his littermates and mother much more. Roxie's all good if you put music on for her (DD informed me she likes rap hahaha)

Kids are bigger now, and they know better. Also, I have gotten better at sensing my dogs' overexcitement and picking them up to give them quiet time before they lose it, get zoomies so you can't even catch them! LOL. Oliver is pretty calm 90% of the time now. A day I never thought would come! But even the vet said at 11 weeks, "He's pretty mouthy, isn't he?"


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> He did grow out of it. Thank God! I'm now worried because Roxie is one of only a litter of three. LOL. She is soooo chill, and will mouth but if I give her something else she'll chew that. We shall see, as she isn't 100% at home here yet! The breeder did say she expected her to stay small as the smallest in the litter AND being a smallish litter she was getting more than her share of milk. I hadn't heard that, but I guess it makes sense. Do they get less socialization with puppies if there is a smaller litter or does it matter in the long run? I was thinking a litter of only ONE would probably be less than ideal. At least she has two sisters. Oliver had 3 or 4 brothers and they loved each other. I felt like 12 weeks was actually very late because his adaptation was slower and he seemed to miss his littermates and mother much more. Roxie's all good if you put music on for her (DD informed me she likes rap hahaha)
> 
> Kids are bigger now, and they know better. Also, I have gotten better at sensing my dogs' overexcitement and picking them up to give them quiet time before they lose it, get zoomies so you can't even catch them! LOL. Oliver is pretty calm 90% of the time now. A day I never thought would come! But even the vet said at 11 weeks, "He's pretty mouthy, isn't he?"


Tom could probably answer that best, but from what I understand, singletons can be problematic, (but still can be handled if the breeder does it right) but a litter of 3 is still just FINE in terms of sibling interaction!


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

I have always loved this article regarding puppies and teaching them what is appropriate when it comes to the mouth they explore their world with


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

Yeah, we definitely had a difference in sharing between Denver (litter of 2) and Keeper (litter of 6). But it could be temperament too.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KarMar said:


> I have always loved this article regarding puppies and teaching them what is appropriate when it comes to the mouth they explore their world with


Got a bad url warning...


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Honestly though. I just watched a video with my daughter dangling her fingers in Oliver’s face right when he came home, and thought, yep those must have looked like really fun chew toys in motion... we have all learned SO MUCH! Lol


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## Vshort (Aug 20, 2018)

I don’t remember how long the biting was an issue but my daughter was 8 when we got our puppy and I remember she got really upset at the puppy one night for biting at her too much. My daughter was sitting on the floor at the time so maybe reduce the time the kids are down on the puppy’s level? And offer another toy to play with instead which may or may not interest him/ her. The good thing is once they move past this phase, there is minimal biting unless they get really riled up.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

krandall said:


> It IS normal puppy behavior, and it WILL go away, whether you do anything about it or not. That said, you don't have to put up with getting punctured either. It's really hard with kids, but TRY to get them not to react, because that will just encourage her, because SHE thinks it's a game. As many times as it takes, EVERY time she does it, pop her into her pen, even if it's inly for 30 seconds. She WILL eventually get the message that all fun stops if she can't keep her teeth off people. But you have to be absolutely consistent and persistent!
> 
> Welcome to life with a little puppy! Take heart that this has NOTHING to do with "real" biting/aggression, it's JUST puppy stuff, and it WILL go away.


Agree! Had the same advice from Karen when Patti was making me think: WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING!!!!

It's truly a horrible time. I live in an intergenerational home with two grandsons and a daughter.

The ex-pen was in a family room kitchen area where everyone hung out. At the time the boys were 12 and 14. Their other grandmother raised Labs and they knew how to pick up and handle puppies but weren't ready for the biting puppy stage.

They adored Patti but even they were probably thinking: WHAT THE HELL WAS YAI YA AND POPPY THINKING?!

During dinner AT FIRST the boys sat with their feet up in the chair because Patti would bite them.

Later they ate in their rooms until this time passed.

Having an ex-pen for Time Outs is not only a GREAT IDEA during the biting stage, but get ready..... there will be a whole lot of reasons you'll want to have a place to separate and remove the Cutest Puppy in the World from the fam.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Mikki said:


> Having an ex-pen for Time Outs is not only a GREAT IDEA during the biting stage, but get ready..... there will be a whole lot of reasons you'll want to have a place to separate and remove the Cutest Puppy in the World from the fam.


LOL! True.

The only reason they survive to adulthood is cuteness.


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## furfan (Nov 24, 2008)

Yup, totally normal.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

A chew is really helpful. Bully sticks were the best fit for us, but there are lots of threads on chews here on the forums if you need ideas.

I know that redirection works over time because of the significant difference in the rate of puppy nipping with me and the rest of my family. But, it’s still a process, and a lot of it has to do with managing overexcitement as well. I think stopping play for a moment works better than moving the puppy physically to timeout only because it’s more immediate and convenient. If the expen is downstairs, the puppy is never going to make the connection by the time he gets all of the way down there. It’s the repetition and immediacy that help them learn, but it still takes time to develop physically and the self control. Mine rarely nipped md after 4 months and by 6, maybe 8 months, he’d stopped with the rest of the family. By then he’d finished teething and they stopped using their hands as toys.

With kids, even my 11 and 12 year olds were caught off guard. Reminding them he is learning how to play and use his teeth and not trying to be mean does help. If they haven’t seen a play growl yet, you might also want to warn them about that. If your kids are young it might help to show them videos of puppy body language, like play bows. Part of the reason it hurts their feelings is because they are afraid the puppy doesn’t like them or is mean, so that reassurance makes it easier to be patient with the puppy. 

Mine also nipped at my pants when he needed to be taken out, so keep an eye out for signs he’s communicating something other than playtime.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

We've had two singletons, and no problems with biting, or really, anything else. They were the least bothered, by far, of being left alone, so that was worth a lot. 

Both absolutely loved other dogs, and people. I'm sure our dogs helped with that.

From that limited experience, I'd say anyone is lucky to get a singleton puppy.

The milk supply adjusts to the demand, so I don't think size of litter matters much with how much one gets. 

The only problem is when you have one that's a Lot smaller than the others, and gets pushed off by the bigger ones. That is not always the case though. Tess had one small puppy, but it was the most agile, so always, from the start, the first one to get on, and took the largest one. He's going to Leslie Sprick, and will be an agility prospect.

My first job that I was given, when I was a little boy, was watching the litter of puppies to make sure the little ones got enough. I think I was 4, or 5. My Dad raised English Setters for hunting.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> A chew is really helpful. Bully sticks were the best fit for us, but there are lots of threads on chews here on the forums if you need ideas.
> 
> I know that redirection works over time because of the significant difference in the rate of puppy nipping with me and the rest of my family. But, it's still a process, and a lot of it has to do with managing overexcitement as well. I think stopping play for a moment works better than moving the puppy physically to timeout only because it's more immediate and convenient. If the expen is downstairs, the puppy is never going to make the connection by the time he gets all of the way down there. It's the repetition and immediacy that help them learn, but it still takes time to develop physically and the self control. Mine rarely nipped md after 4 months and by 6, maybe 8 months, he'd stopped with the rest of the family. By then he'd finished teething and they stopped using their hands as toys.
> 
> ...


Bully sticks are awesome! I'm now giving them to both of them so he doesn't feel left out. And omg Roxie has this little play growl, and this time I say, "awww that's adorable" because I know it's fine and play (also I don't think the play growl/ barking is a problematic behavior long term). She started doing it earlier I think because it's directed at Oliver.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Regarding small litters, Shama was in a litter of two. We never noticed any problem. (She was our first dog together, of course, so I'm not sure we would have noticed.) 

Funny story ... Shama's mother didn't do a good job nursing her pups (it was her first and only litter), so our breeder gave goat's milk and kibble to Shama. When we got home, Shama would NOT eat her kibble. She would only drink the goat's milk from her food dish. Luckily it didn't take us too long to figure out the problem ... Her dish was too deep, and she couldn't REACH the kibble. She had to use her poor little tongue to reach the goat's milk! We felt terrible! Starving our new puppy!

These pictures were taken the day we brought her home. The second one shows the dish that was too deep. She was nine and a half weeks old, and she weighed 1.9 pounds. (Now she weighs eight and a half pounds.)

I'm also including a photo taken of her earlier this month.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

ShamaMama said:


> Regarding small litters, Shama was in a litter of two. We never noticed any problem. (She was our first dog together, of course, so I'm not sure we would have noticed.)
> 
> Funny story ... Shama's mother didn't do a good job nursing her pups (it was her first and only litter), so our breeder gave goat's milk and kibble to Shama. When we got home, Shama would NOT eat her kibble. She would only drink the goat's milk from her food dish. Luckily it didn't take us too long to figure out the problem ... Her dish was too deep, and she couldn't REACH the kibble. She had to use her poor little tongue to reach the goat's milk! We felt terrible! Starving our new puppy!
> 
> ...


Oh she was a gorgeous pup, and has grown into a BEAUTIFUL dog. I love her coat


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## Havachelle (Apr 27, 2020)

Take out the https and start with the www.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

*BEWARE OF BULLY STICKS OR THOSE HIMALAYAN CHEESE STICKS ...*

I've had very bad results using those.

During the biting stage Patti got a Bully Stick piece caught in her throat. Poor Thing and my husband was up ALL night with her, she was so uncomfortable. I went to bed not knowing what was going on. My husband is a retired surgeon and able to monitor the situation without *Falling a Apart.*

The next morning we took her to the Vet and while waiting the bully stick piece finally passed. Patti was immediately relieved and exhausted quickly falling asleep. I'll never again give her a bully stick.

When she got older I gave her a Himalayan Cheese Stick, which she Loved! So, when we left on a 14-hour vehicle trip I gave Patti one for entertainment. She had eaten breakfast and was her playful self when we started out.

Later she started vomiting,* ALOT! off and on * for Hours. It was obvious she didn't feel good. Although, she had never been car sick we thought that was the problem because she kept vomiting and the change in behavior was sudden.

We stopped to eat and left Patti in the car as she'd stopped vomiting. When we came back to the car, she had thrown up all over the floor and in the puck I found a chunk of cheese stick in the puck. From that point on she was back to her happy self.

Split Antlers has been our answer for something to chew on along with toys. At 2+ years Patti still likes to chew on an antler.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

We haven’t had your scary experiences, but Kodi is. Allergic to both, so it’s moose antlers or nothing around here!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Mikki said:


> *BEWARE OF BULLY STICKS OR THOSE HIMALAYAN CHEESE STICKS ...*
> 
> I've had very bad results using those.
> 
> ...


I think it's good to be cautious of any chews with a puppy because the intensity of their chewing can change as they go through teething stages.

Personally, with my adult Havanese, bully sticks are the only chew I can comfortably leave mine alone with. He has never been able to break off a piece or even come close. I only give long sticks, even though I think the shorter ones are recommended for small dogs, so maybe that makes a difference. He is better able to hold the long one while he's chewing. Unfortunately, they've lost their appeal and he's only interested every once in a while now.

I think I really got lucky the first time I ordered bully sticks. Somehow I came across natural odor free bully sticks the first time I ever looked online. When people mentioned the stains and dyes I had no idea what they were talking about. I noticed later I could never find those in a store, and the one time I bought one it smelled awful when he chewed it. I threw it away and now I just accept buying the expensive, big bag that will last a year and forgetting where I keep it.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Mine tends to ignore chews as hard as Himalayan chews or antler slices. I’d love to find one he’s interested in!


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I think it's good to be cautious of any chews with a puppy because the intensity of their chewing can change as they go through teething stages.


Yes! agree. Unfortunately, once they bite off too big a bite and swallow it there's not much you can do about it, except to react to whatever your dealing with at that moment.


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## RMKAUFF100 (Jun 30, 2020)

I am in that place right now! My 9 week old gets out of control with play nipping! Introducing a frozen kong with PB today! I have been redirecting non-stop, but I think because he is a little pup he thinks it is a game!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

RMKAUFF100 said:


> I am in that place right now! My 9 week old gets out of control with play nipping! Introducing a frozen kong with PB today! I have been redirecting non-stop, but I think because he is a little pup he thinks it is a game!


It's a stage that many go through. You are absolutely right to redirect and not to get too worried about it. Yes you have to keep yourself from getting mangled during this period, and certainly gently but firmly discourage it. But they DO grow out of it!


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## RMKAUFF100 (Jun 30, 2020)

So I hear, but WHEN??? LOL
He even goes after our hair! Love him to pieces though!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

RMKAUFF100 said:


> So I hear, but WHEN??? LOL
> He even goes after our hair! Love him to pieces though!


LOL! It takes a while. Then someday... you just notice that they don't do it anymore!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Roxie likes to sleep on my pillow and chew my hair 😕


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

krandall said:


> LOL! It takes a while. Then someday... you just notice that they don't do it anymore!


This is how it's been with every one of my puppies, Havanese or not.

Appa (wheaten terrier) had me crying with him on my lap as a puppy because I just could not take it anymore. A week later I realized he had stopped. I tried to think back to what day he had stopped and I couldn't tell. Yet that moment of me sitting in the kitchen wondering why I bought a puppy because I was such a failure because his teeth hurt me is etched forever in my brain.

Denver was not nearly as bad, but he was still nippy. He had dental surgery and during that process he stopped, I think his teeth were hurting him more than most (base narrow boy).

Keeper is a mouthy boy. He still likes to chew fingers and I'm waiting for that day... lol. But I also was bad about letting him - so that's on me.


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Mikki said:


> *BEWARE OF BULLY STICKS OR THOSE HIMALAYAN CHEESE STICKS ...*
> 
> I've had very bad results using those.
> 
> ...


The breeder sent home a few bully sticks and Desi was mesmerized with them. My vet however said that Bully Sticks could easily break off and that she has seen lots of broken teeth with the Antlers. She suggested that I try Benebones but not the one with the small hole on each end. I just bought the Benebone tiny two pack and so far they don't have the same appeal for Desi but he will chew on them if they are nearby.


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

I am so glad to have this forum for feedback and advice. It has been a long time since I raised a puppy and I think it’s like childbirth where you tend to gloss over the hard parts, lol! Desi was such an angel his first week home alternating between sleeping and cuddling. Week two and he has turned into a tiny whirling dervish. 

Yes, I have entered THE WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING STAGE! The nipping is constant and I am using a combination of redirecting with available toys, getting up from the floor and ignoring him or putting him in his pen when he gets too wound up. I was hoping for a little snuggle buddy but Desi prefers to lay next to me or under my chair and doesn’t want to lay on my lap. He can be obstinate and stubborn at times as well. I am also starting to realize that housebreaking is going to be a long drawn out process until it clicks. 

On the positive side, he is SO DARN CUTE! I love watching his puppy antics, he doesn’t exhibit any signs of separation anxiety and takes naps in his crate without a fuss. He also sleeps at least 8 hours a night. I keep reminding myself that just like toddlerhood, with a little guidance all the undesirable behaviors will pass.

On the guidance subject, I remember seeing a post by Karen Randall about agility training and choosing Kodi for his independent nature. It made me realize that independence isn’t a bad trait for a little pup to have. I am looking forward to participating in puppy classes with Desi at the end of the month and watching him grow. 

There is a light at the end of the tunnel!


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## Tere (Oct 17, 2018)

Although I missed Shadow's puppyhood since he was 10 months and I was his 3rd. owner, he is not a lap dog but "needs" to be near by. He is in love with every person and would elope with the trash collector or mailman. 
He hates to be left alone. Once he figures out that I might be preparing for an outing, he becomes a rigid, stubborn mule. He will refuse to go out for a pee. Refuse to move. Refuse to come inside. Refuse to enter his crate. Refuse to eat his treats once in the crate. None of this would be a problem unless he thinks I may be going somewhere. He turns into a different dog! Somehow, once I have departed, he scarfs down the treats and rests comfortably in the crate plotting his next meal and adventure. This is an everyday event for almost 3 years.
He is a cuddlier dog when the weather gets cooler, I've noticed. He also "needs" to sit in my lap when one of his friends sits in my lap when we are out visiting! It's almost comical the way he does it. Suddenly he is there in my lap the instant he thinks another dog might sit in my lap.
I do remember all of my puppies having a nippy stage. All of them grew out of it once teething was over. Housetraining gets better in a month or 2. Hang in there! I used to set the kitchen timer to remind myself. Little Desi is having an adjustment period being away from the older dogs to guide him and puppy play. He is too cute for words!


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Faithb said:


> *I am so glad to have this forum for feedback and advice. It has been a long time since I raised a puppy and I think it's like childbirth where you tend to gloss over the hard parts, lol! Desi was such an angel his first week home alternating between sleeping and cuddling. Week two and he has turned into a tiny whirling dervish. *
> 
> *Yes, I have entered THE WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING STAGE! *The nipping is constant and I am using a combination of redirecting with available toys, getting up from the floor and ignoring him or putting him in his pen when he gets too wound up. *I was hoping for a little snuggle buddy but Desi prefers to lay next to me or under my chair and doesn't want to lay on my lap*. *He can be obstinate and stubborn at times as well. I am also starting to realize that housebreaking is going to be a long drawn out process until it clicks.
> *
> ...


I HEAR YA!!! The biting stage is like HELL WEEK for about three or four months. Like Toddlers the only thing that SAVES them is Cuteness. They're just so darn CUTE!!! WHEN ASLEEP.

Vets see lots of things but Patti still gnaws on medium to large split antlers every day. I had a few smaller ones when she was a puppy. They like the Marrow Inside of the Bones. Cleans her teeth.

Most of her antlers are almost as old as she is. During the biting stage, I know you won't believe this, :laugh2: but Havanese are not Power Biters like large dogs who can break an antler with their teeth. I'm not worried about her breaking a tooth. Puppies attention spans are limited. They play and chew on a toy for a short minute then they're off biting or chewing on someONE or something else. 
*
Cuddles:* Patti is 2.5 years old and it's only been in the last four months that's she occasionally jumps up in my chair to lay ...beside... me for a brief period. At night she's found a Cave where she likes to sleep: in our closet under a my clothes where it's cool and she's hidden. In the wee hours of the morning she'll jump up on the bed on the bed for a while and then move somewhere else.

Patti does not get up on the furniture very often and prefers the floor. I think, she gets hot. She loves to play, asks for attention if ignored _(can be annoying) _and will let you rub her tummy, back and ears for as long as you'll do it. There is an invisible leash connected to her and my ankle. As I walk down the hallway she nudges the back of my calf to let me know she's there.

Desi might become a Cuddler but he's a busy puppy right now. Patti's not a Cuddler but she's never in a room by herself. She's in the same room with me or someone in the family if I'm not around. Truly a VELCRO DOG.

*EXHAUSTING PATIENCE* during the housebreaking period pays BIG DIVIDENDS. Can't remember if you're indoor-potty tray housebreaking. If you are it's a whole lot quicker and easier but it takes a long while before you can turn them loose. When Patti was 10 months she was given access to three rooms. I might have been able to do it a little sooner but it's important they are 100% Trust Worthy before you given them freedom.

Last Saturday we traveled to the mountains and are staying in a three level townhome with no yard. It's been a year since Patti was here. I have two potty trays, one in the living area and one in the bedroom. I was taking her our for walks three or four times a day and she did Her Job outside. Yesterday, a big snow storm came through. She easily switched to using the potty trays. :wink2:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Faithb said:


> I am so glad to have this forum for feedback and advice. It has been a long time since I raised a puppy and I think it's like childbirth where you tend to gloss over the hard parts, lol! Desi was such an angel his first week home alternating between sleeping and cuddling. Week two and he has turned into a tiny whirling dervish.
> 
> Yes, I have entered THE WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING STAGE! The nipping is constant and I am using a combination of redirecting with available toys, getting up from the floor and ignoring him or putting him in his pen when he gets too wound up. I was hoping for a little snuggle buddy but Desi prefers to lay next to me or under my chair and doesn't want to lay on my lap. He can be obstinate and stubborn at times as well. I am also starting to realize that housebreaking is going to be a long drawn out process until it clicks.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the "post infant" part of puppyhood. The good news is that whether he's cuddly or not right now has NO bearing on his adult "cuddliness. It's like the difference between a helpless human baby, who is very cuddly (because, hey, what else is there?) and the "terrible two year old". This is a perfectly normal developmental stage. 

I think you misinterpreted what I wrote. I DID choose Kodi to be a sports dog. But he was (and is) FAR from being "independent" in nature. I turned down the puppy who was very independent in favor of Kodi, who, when I met the litter, climbed into my lap and stared at my face every chance that he got! We "clicked" immediately. Having an independent nature and being able to "self soothe" are two different things. The second is taught. And I worked very hard, from the day ALL my puppies came home, to teach them that it was OK to be by themselves for varying lengths of time. I did that because it was vitally important to me, both in terms of everyday life, and in terms of the sports situations I put them in. (IE, crated for hours at a trial, without me being able to sit near them)

At home, in everyday life, Kodi is not usually on my lap. Partly because it's not particularly comfortable for either one of us. He is a lap-and-a-half Havanese"!  But he is ALWAYS very nearby. If I sit on the couch, he wants to be up beside me, pressed against my leg. In bed, during our "cuddle time" with the dogs, his favorite place is deep under the covers, again, pressed against my side.

When Pam and my trainer friend and I talked about the attributes of the three puppies available to me, There was the very independent "adventurer" pup. I now realize that he was in the same stage as Desi is now. The fact that he was so independent then did NOT mean he would not be an attached, loving dog as an adult. But I knew nothing about dogs and less about puppy development at that point. Then there was a very distractible puppy, who often wandered away from a task in the temperament testing because he saw something more interesting nearby. His strength was that he was BY FAR the most food-motivated at that stage, which would have been a plus in training to overcome his "scatterbrained" approach to the world. Kodi was moderately strong in all areas tested, but he was CLEARLY the most "people-oriented" puppy and had clearly already "chosen" ME. That sort of personal connection can help you overcome all sorts of training challenges. And he has shown that in spades. He started with a completely "untrained" trainer (I had years of horse training experience, but that is VERY different from working with dogs) and what he has accomplished is pretty amazing. He is STILL the only Havanese to have achieved the ARCHMX title in World Cynosport Rally, as well as titles in numerous other sports organizations.

I would say that Kodi's "independence" as a puppy was pretty average. But what he brought to the table was a strong desire to work with me, and the tremendous amount of energy that he put into his work. Kodi is either brilliant, or we NQ. It is rarely anything in between!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Thanks for the encouragement!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

I’m totally convinced you can’t tell how cuddly they will or won’t be until later. I’m convinced you don’t even know their full personality until after adolescence. Oliver was never independent, but he was crazy, running in circles, biting, rather than sitting in laps! He would follow me everywhere and it really seemed like he was mostly attached to me. Now, he’s mellow! Like seriously quiet and sits on my lap OR beside me in the chair during my zoom classes or while I’m writing. Each night, he goes into each kid’s room, cuddles with them for a few minutes before he comes back to our room. He’s empathetic. If a child is crying or has a bad dream, he gets very concerned and goes to cuddle them. 

I told people he was massively, annoyingly energetic as a puppy. Not really. Sure he has his play time, he likes long walks. But he’s mostly a cuddly love. He’s not as food motivated as Roxie. He wouldn’t take our trainer’s treats last week. Or do anything she wanted. 

Now we have Roxie, who is 3.5 months old and quite wild. Maybe she is independent, sort of. Or maybe she just has excessive energy to play and train. AND she loves food. She’ll do anything for a treat. Oliver actually copies her recall and this thing my trainer wants Oliver to know, where he goes under my legs when I’m seated as a den like thing. But she also bites and plays rough. We’re better at teaching the self soothing because I literally cannot pick her up every 5 seconds from the ex pen. She eventually goes in her crate and naps. I also won’t let her get over tired and bitey. The time she’s most cuddly is when she’s asleep or falling asleep. Otherwise it’s like her goal is to bite you. It’s getting better, but she’s teething. I mean, the poor baby is chewing the sides of her ceramic water bowl


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

I also just put a toy in her mouth when she tries to attack me. I have done less bully sticks etc because she and Oliver keep stealing them from each other and it's just a big pain. She likes nylabones.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> I also just put a toy in her mouth when she tries to attack me. I have done less bully sticks etc because she and Oliver keep stealing them from each other and it's just a big pain. She likes nylabones.


You truly learn the meaning of "a dog in the manger" when you have multiples! LOL! We must have a half dozen antlers in various places... And they will STILL get into arguments about one. Nothing major, but... REALLY?!?! Go get another one! LOL!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

krandall said:


> You truly learn the meaning of "a dog in the manger" when you have multiples! LOL! We must have a half dozen antlers in various places... And they will STILL get into arguments about one. Nothing major, but... REALLY?!?! Go get another one! LOL!


yep. currently they aren't even fighting. it's just, I give them each one. Roxie in particular drops hers and goes for his. five minutes later someone's is missing and I'm searching all over. forget it, lol. it's annoying. I GAVE YOU BOTH ONE? WHYYYY


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> yep. currently they aren't even fighting. it's just, I give them each one. Roxie in particular drops hers and goes for his. five minutes later someone's is missing and I'm searching all over. forget it, lol. it's annoying. I GAVE YOU BOTH ONE? WHYYYY


LOL! That's WHY we have several more chews than dogs. ...even with that, I have to go retieve a pile out of one bed or another, where SOMEONE (usually Kodi) has been hoarding them!


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

We live this. 6 bully sticks on the floor.... and they fight over one. LOL.

ALSO, this picture was last night. Keeper smooshes himself under the couch and it now takes about 2 mins under and out. So last night Denver was nomming on a cow ear, Keeper just laid there whining, hoping his brother would bring it over because it was too much work for him to come out (hahaha).


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

It's like having children close in age. They really don't find their own toys nearly as interesting as their siblings


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

Here’s a picture from this morning...
Ignore the picture quality... I am without my phone for a month, so I’m stuck with an oooooold phone with a not so great camera. Lol.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

Wulfin said:


> We live this. 6 bully sticks on the floor.... and they fight over one. LOL.
> 
> ALSO, this picture was last night. Keeper smooshes himself under the couch and it now takes about 2 mins under and out. So last night Denver was nomming on a cow ear, Keeper just laid there whining, hoping his brother would bring it over because it was too much work for him to come out (hahaha).


Ohhhh Roxie hides under the couch too. She has a collection of toys. Her favorite thing is to attack Oliver and then take cover under the couch.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Cuuuutttteee!!!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Precious, precious Denver/Keeper photo. I'm saving it for my private collection (which I won't ever post anywhere).

Faith, if I could do it over again, I would clicker train Shama to want to be on my lap. She's happy to be on or near DH, but my lap is the always-to-be-avoided grooming table, especially if I'm in my recliner, which is where I am most evenings! She also likes to be on the floor near us. I definitely thought she would be more of a lap dog than she is. A little friend came to visit her today, and she does indeed like to be near me if I'm giving any attention to another dog!

When Shama was little, we loved to give her bully springs (easier to hold with paws than sticks) and PIGS' EARS! (Don't give pigs' ears to adult dogs as they're too rich.) She still has the same cow's ear she's has since she was a puppy. It's funny to see her chewing on it once in a while. Lately, she's been wild about her horse hoof! Again, it's the same one she's had since she was a puppy! (You can put a bit of peanut butter in a horse hoof like in a Kong ...)


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

ShamaMama said:


> Precious, precious Denver/Keeper photo. I'm saving it for my private collection (which I won't ever post anywhere).
> 
> ...
> 
> She still has the same cow's ear she's has since she was a puppy. It's funny to see her chewing on it once in a while.


No worries! I posted that one on Instagram too. The boys were fighting over the bully stick. You don't see the one that's a foot away from the bed ignored. Lol.

How have you had the same cows ear? We go through a pair a week... lol. Is it because the ones I buy are "puffed"?


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

ShamaMama said:


> Precious, precious Denver/Keeper photo. I'm saving it for my private collection (which I won't ever post anywhere).
> 
> Faith, if I could do it over again, I would clicker train Shama to want to be on my lap. She's happy to be on or near DH, but my lap is the always-to-be-avoided grooming table, especially if I'm in my recliner, which is where I am most evenings! She also likes to be on the floor near us. I definitely thought she would be more of a lap dog than she is. A little friend came to visit her today, and she does indeed like to be near me if I'm giving any attention to another dog!
> 
> When Shama was little, we loved to give her bully springs (easier to hold with paws than sticks) and PIGS' EARS! (Don't give pigs' ears to adult dogs as they're too rich.) She still has the same cow's ear she's has since she was a puppy. It's funny to see her chewing on it once in a while. Lately, she's been wild about her horse hoof! Again, it's the same one she's had since she was a puppy! (You can put a bit of peanut butter in a horse hoof like in a Kong ...)


I never clicker trained a dog before but am definitely going to give it a try with Desi. He has a very strong willed personality but is very food motivated. We are practicing come and sit skills a few times each day. We are scheduled to start puppy school on Thursday.

ShamaMama, Have you returned to school?


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

The photo of Denver and Keeper is adorable. I love their matching blue bands.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

ShamaMama said:


> Precious, precious Denver/Keeper photo. I'm saving it for my private collection (which I won't ever post anywhere).
> 
> Faith, if I could do it over again, I would clicker train Shama to want to be on my lap. She's happy to be on or near DH, but my lap is the always-to-be-avoided grooming table, especially if I'm in my recliner, which is where I am most evenings! She also likes to be on the floor near us. I definitely thought she would be more of a lap dog than she is. A little friend came to visit her today, and she does indeed like to be near me if I'm giving any attention to another dog!
> 
> When Shama was little, we loved to give her bully springs (easier to hold with paws than sticks) and PIGS' EARS! (Don't give pigs' ears to adult dogs as they're too rich.) She still has the same cow's ear she's has since she was a puppy. It's funny to see her chewing on it once in a while. Lately, she's been wild about her horse hoof! Again, it's the same one she's had since she was a puppy! (You can put a bit of peanut butter in a horse hoof like in a Kong ...)


I think that if you used a grooming table, rather than your lap, she would be less concerned about your lap. You might still get her there!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I quick grooms on my lap, but I don’t do mats or anything more than 10 minutes on my lap (unless I can stop a lot for ear scratches and belly rubs). I had the same problem, Shama Mama, and I couldn’t bear it! He would give me sad faces and lay down just out of reach. I have a little nesting table I’ve been using lately. It’s a tiny bit too long so sometimes it’s uncomfortable when he lays on the other end, but so far I can’t think of a good place to store a real grooming table (or even a tabletop setup) that’s near enough to where I’d actually use it. 

Advantages and disadvantages to everything! I’m glad I can groom my Havanese anywhere at any time while he holds still on my lap. But, I probably should have spent an equal amount of time training him on a table, just to make it easier to do both.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Wulfin said:


> How have you had the same cows ear? We go through a pair a week... lol. Is it because the ones I buy are "puffed"?


 Shama is a dainty eater when it comes to cow's ear. She might be considered a ruffian if she ate an ear in less than six year's time ... :wink2:


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Faithb said:


> ShamaMama, Have you returned to school?


 Yesterday was my second day with students. Tomorrow is a flex day, so I'm allowed to work from home. We provide assignments for the day to all of our students then have meetings and office hours all day. We really can't quite figure out when we're supposed to prep and correct and enter grades and contact students who are not engaged and ...


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> I think that if you used a grooming table, rather than your lap, she would be less concerned about your lap. You might still get her there!


. DH does occasionally ask why we bought the grooming table ... You're right, of course. I should convert. Attention lazy Havanese owners! If you groom in your lap, your lap dog will not choose your lap!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

Thanks for advice about lap grooming. Since I read your post I have been putting a towel on the floor with a frozen Kong to distract him from chewing on my hands. This is working well so far but I am having a difficult time with his underside. My neighbor who owns and shows 5 Shelties (that are groomed to perfection) returns to Florida next month. She has a complete grooming setup and I am hoping she will show me how.


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

ShamaMama said:


> Yesterday was my second day with students. Tomorrow is a flex day, so I'm allowed to work from home. We provide assignments for the day to all of our students then have meetings and office hours all day. We really can't quite figure out when we're supposed to prep and correct and enter grades and contact students who are not engaged and ...


Hats off to teachers everywhere! Your jobs were already stressful and now Covid is pushing the limits. Let's hope that they can find a solution soon.

Hang in there!:cheer2:


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

We have a grooming table, and I use that with Oliver every time. Roxie is not a fan. She has JUST started letting me put her on it, and I give her treats and praise and just brush a little, not much, or she'd go crazy and flail around.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> We have a grooming table, and I use that with Oliver every time. Roxie is not a fan. She has JUST started letting me put her on it, and I give her treats and praise and just brush a little, not much, or she'd go crazy and flail around.


It requires training for most of them. But it's really important training for a costed breed, where regular grooming is going to be a necessity for their entire life!

...Then there are the few "Divas" like Panda who seem born to the grooming table, and lie down and say, "Make me beautiful!" LOL!


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

And then there are ones like Keeper, who throws daily tantrums about being brushed, biting everything he can reach - brushes, combs, fingers. 

Luckily, Denver is like Panda, so I only have to fight one dog. Lol.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

She hates baths, hates being brushed, hates the blowdryer, hates nail clipping...and she is quite vocal about it. But yesterday I did get her to sit on the grooming table with the noose on and let me brush her for a few minutes. Treats were involved LOL. The groomer will thank me in a couple of weeks because if we weren't practicing this, she'd attack him like a shrieking cat. She seriously reminds me of a little black cat when it comes to grooming.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Wulfin said:


> And then there are ones like Keeper, who throws daily tantrums about being brushed, biting everything he can reach - brushes, combs, fingers.
> 
> Luckily, Denver is like Panda, so I only have to fight one dog. Lol.


Great... So the pet dog is the one who is easy to groom, and the show dog is the tough one... LOL!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Melissa Woods said:


> She hates baths, hates being brushed, hates the blowdryer, hates nail clipping...and she is quite vocal about it. But yesterday I did get her to sit on the grooming table with the noose on and let me brush her for a few minutes. Treats were involved LOL. The groomer will thank me in a couple of weeks because if we weren't practicing this, she'd attack him like a shrieking cat. She seriously reminds me of a little black cat when it comes to grooming.


LOL! She might surprise you! A lot of them are MUCh better for a stranger than for their owners. Same with cats. We had a long-haired white cat who, as she got older, matted very badly if she wasn't bathed and thoroughly brushed out semi-regularly. The problem was, she would rip us limb from limb if we tried. (Although she was a sweet loving cat in other respects!) So we took her to the pros one a month. They RAVED about her, claiming that she was the BEST CAT they worked with, SO EASY, and SO COMPLIANT to deal with.  We didn't bother tell them about her Dr. Jeykl and Mr. Hyde personality! LOL!


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

krandall said:


> LOL! She might surprise you! A lot of them are MUCh better for a stranger than for their owners. Same with cats. We had a long-haired white cat who, as she got older, matted very badly if she wasn't bathed and thoroughly brushed out semi-regularly. The problem was, she would rip us limb from limb if we tried. (Although she was a sweet loving cat in other respects!) So we took her to the pros one a month. They RAVED about her, claiming that she was the BEST CAT they worked with, SO EASY, and SO COMPLIANT to deal with.  We didn't bother tell them about her Dr. Jeykl and Mr. Hyde personality! LOL!


This is probably true because Oliver used to not let me groom him well AT ALL, and even now, he barely tolerates it. It helps that he's a little scared of the groomer, in this case. Because I hand him over and he's very submissive to him, when if I pull the slightest he freaks out. I also don't have clippers or scissors on him. LOL


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

I love to hear the stories about your dogs! Just when I think I am making progress with Desi he throws me a curve. He gets into these moods where he is just so rambunctious that the only thing I can do to calm him down is to put him in his crate. On the other hand, he started reliably performing the sit command yesterday. I also mentioned the word potty this morning and he ran to the front door.


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

Faithb said:


> I love to hear the stories about your dogs! Just when I think I am making progress with Desi he throws me a curve. He gets into these moods where he is just so rambunctious that the only thing I can do to calm him down is to put him in his crate. On the other hand, he started reliably performing the sit command yesterday. I also mentioned the word potty this morning and he ran to the front door.


I've taken to calling Keeper my little ball of Chaos. I see the dog he's going to become sometimes, others...... lol. He's definitely a wild child. Sounds like Desi may be similar. Lol.



krandall said:


> Great... So the pet dog is the one who is easy to groom, and the show dog is the tough one... LOL!


Exactly!!! Because why make things easy, right??


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Wulfin said:


> And then there are ones like Keeper, who throws daily tantrums about being brushed, biting everything he can reach - brushes, combs, fingers.
> 
> Luckily, Denver is like Panda, so I only have to fight one dog. Lol.


A couple of times when Sundance was still teething, he was being especially good while I was grooming him, only to find that he was quietly chewing the wooden brush!


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> A couple of times when Sundance was still teething, he was being especially good while I was grooming him, only to find that he was quietly chewing the wooden brush!


I hope not one of your CC brushes, lol.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Faithb said:


> I hope not one of your CC brushes, lol.


Oh yes! I bought a new brush eventually and was much more careful with it, until one day I accidentally left it within his reach. The good news is I figured out I could combine the good pins from both brushes into one. At least I didn't end up with 2 chewed brushes!

The pins do seem to be a bit more fragile on the wood brush. I have dropped it and ended up a broken pin or 2. But I like it, so every once in a while I just replace a pin from the old brush.


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## Faithb (Aug 18, 2020)

That was good thinking on your part. I probably would have never thought to replace the Pins.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Faithb said:


> Thanks for advice about lap grooming. Since I read your post I have been putting a towel on the floor with a frozen Kong to distract him from chewing on my hands. This is working well so far but I am having a difficult time with his underside. My neighbor who owns and shows 5 Shelties (that are groomed to perfection) returns to Florida next month. She has a complete grooming setup and I am hoping she will show me how.


I do like flipping her over so her back is on my lap with my knees bent so her head is up by mine and we can look each other in the eyes as I comb out her chest and belly and legs. She hates it when I comb her face, but that is the best angle! I'll try to have DH take a current photo. They shaved her belly for her ultrasound (see my CKD thread), and that revealed her little green tattoo from when she was spayed.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

krandall said:


> LOL! She might surprise you! A lot of them are MUCh better for a stranger than for their owners. Same with cats. We had a long-haired white cat who, as she got older, matted very badly if she wasn't bathed and thoroughly brushed out semi-regularly. The problem was, she would rip us limb from limb if we tried. (Although she was a sweet loving cat in other respects!) So we took her to the pros one a month. They RAVED about her, claiming that she was the BEST CAT they worked with, SO EASY, and SO COMPLIANT to deal with.  We didn't bother tell them about her Dr. Jeykl and Mr. Hyde personality! LOL!


We bought the little lazy susan-type grooming table (which Shama uses like a treadmill, walking steadily to prevent me from reaching her butt ...) and the noose and middle support to help me keep her in place, but I ended up too nervous about "noosing" her to ever really use it much (which is why I have a lap dog who almost never willingly comes to my lap), but one day, after she was groomed, I asked my groomer if she could take another look at her feet because the hair seemed too long. To my amazement, the groomer plunked Shama up onto the table and proceeded to trim her feet without restraining her in any way. Shama just stood perfectly still! I inquired, and the groomer said she never has to use a noose or middle support with Shama. I am in awe of groomers ...


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## Wulfin (May 3, 2019)

I need to get an arm with a hook for the bum, or at the very least get another loop. Denver likes to sit or lay on the table, which makes grooming his butt and hind legs very difficult. Keeper spins around to try to get away from the brush, but also hug me (thinking I’ll save him?). Also, I want a bigger table. I got a small one which is fine for Denver, but not a dog that has zero fear of heights and wants to get away (Keeper).

I agree though, groomers are amazing. Sometimes I think dogs manipulate us a lot more because they’ve learned they can get away with it, but groomers don’t put up with that stuff.


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