# When To Curb the Treats



## whitzend (Dec 1, 2011)

Cooper is 16 weeks. I always give him a treat (very small) after he goes potty and when learning sit etc. The problem I think I am having is he has to get up at 2:00am and 4:30am to go outside. poop time. Wondering if the treats have anything to do with this. He is very treat oriented and looks at me with a dirty look after he has done something good and only gets an excited good boy lol
Guess what I'm asking help for is how old before I can curb the treats and he won't be insulted. Should I continue giving them and just get up in the middle of the night? :frusty: for now?

Tired in MA.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Don't give treats every time. But, when he is expecting a treat, then get all excited and say "Good Boy" and have a party! 

You want him to think he is going to get a treat, you just have to change it up a little. Slowly start decreasing the treats (cut in half, whatever you have to do).


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

If your treats are TINY, they shouldn't be enough food to interfere with his natural bodily rhythms. It may be that you have to play with his meal times to see if you can change when he needs to eliminate. Even though it will be noisy for a while, you can also start to slowly move his timing by not getting up when he firsts cries. Wait an extra 10 minutes. (unless he has very loose stools, he should be able to hold it that long) Then slowly stretch that time out. Cooper is still very young, and it may be that he he will just NEED an extra potty time at night for a while, even just with his normal meals. But I think you could wean him down from two times per night to one. 

We have to do this with Kodi every year at time change, even though he is an adult... He'll want to get up and potty an hour before the clock says. We have to slowly switch him to the new time over the course of a week or so. 

Tom King says he never gives food treats for pottying, because relieving themselves, in itself, is a reward. That's what we did with Kodi. We had a party for sure, but didn't give treats for something his body was telling him to do anyway. What we were doing was establishing the good habit of wanting to go OUTSIDE or in his litter box. When you treat a dog for going poop, you are rewarding the ACT, not the PLACE. They just don't get those abstract concepts well. 

You CAN put "go potty" on cue using a clicker (and/or marker word) and using a treat, but that's different. It's VERY useful, however, to have it on cue to "empty them out" before a long car ride, or entering someone else's home, where you want to make SURE there are no accidents. Kodi is pretty funny. He will dutifully squat and squeeze out two drops if that's all that is available, when I tell him "Go Pee!" ("Go Poop" is more hit or miss, but you know, when you can't go, you can't go... that's not always within their (or our) control)

As far as using treats for training other behaviors, particularly paired with a clicker (better) or a "marker" word, is something that you MAY use indefinitely, and you CERTAINLY don't want to fade out entirely with a puppy. If all you want is basic, house pet obedience, there will be a limited number of commands that you teach your dog, and when they are really confirmed in those commands, you can go to intermittent FOOD reinforcement. (eventually becoming VERY occasional) You still need to reinforce good behaviors with praise and/or play. And you have to be aware that all dogs have a tendency to lose behaviors that are not practiced and reinforced in SOME way, regularly. 

IMO, people who are not doing some sort of training with their dogs on an on-going basis are missing a tremendous opportunity to build a deeper bond with their dog AS WELL AS really enrich their dog's life. It can be pretty boring being a couch potato, even with trips out to the yard. Not that dogs don't adjust to that life, many dogs, especially "companion breeds" like Havanese, do. But it's a waste of a good mind! And if you are going to be continuously training, (and it really only needs 5 minutes once or twice a day!) you will find that you will most likely continuously need food (and praise and play) rewards to train new behaviors AND to maintain older ones as the repertoire gets bigger.

Even WITH these (again, TINY) food rewards, dogs DO get on a regular schedule as they get older and in more control of their bodies, particularly if you give them a little help now and then.


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## whitzend (Dec 1, 2011)

I was wondering about all the treats ( they are very very small) because he was sleeping through the night for quite awhile and the last 2 weeks not so much. He goes outside right before bed (10:00pm). I will try changing his feeding times and see if that helps. 
The look on his furry little face when he gets praised instead of a small treat after going potty is so priceless ound:

He is learning different things very well,seems to love it. The 1 and only thing is the nipping :frusty: driving us crazy but trying to hold on to our patience :ear: 

Thanks for all the advice really helps


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

I treat Brody for going in the right place. It really made a huge difference for him to consistently use the right spot (Ugodog). Once I found a treat he really liked (it took 3 introductions of the treat before he decided he loved freeze dried beef liver) potty training became soooooo much easier. 

He just gets a tiny sliver (one small piece of freeze dried beef liver will take me at least a couple of weeks to use up for his potty treats). I still give him a treat after going. He goes, and then runs straight over to the treat spot and he doesn't forget he's "owed" a treat if I happen to busy with something else. LOL


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

whitzend said:


> I was wondering about all the treats ( they are very very small) because he was sleeping through the night for quite awhile and the last 2 weeks not so much. He goes outside right before bed (10:00pm). I will try changing his feeding times and see if that helps.
> The look on his furry little face when he gets praised instead of a small treat after going potty is so priceless ound:
> 
> He is learning different things very well,seems to love it. The 1 and only thing is the nipping :frusty: driving us crazy but trying to hold on to our patience :ear:
> ...


Yeah, keep after the nipping, but they DO grow out of it. As with children, these phases seem so long when you are in the middle of them, but looking back, they are very brief. And the fact that he was sleeping through and isn't now... their development is non-linear. You will find that they make progress, backslide, and make progress again. Just like kids.


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## whitzend (Dec 1, 2011)

krandall said:


> *Yeah, keep after the nipping, but they DO grow out of it. *As with children, these phases seem so long when you are in the middle of them, but looking back, they are very brief. And the fact that he was sleeping through and isn't now... their development is non-linear. You will find that they make progress, backslide, and make progress again. Just like kids.


Promise? :hail: lol


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

i found the best way to solve nipping was to teach kissing. put some butter on the back of your hand and teach him the word Kiss when he licks. when he he nips say "no bite! Kiss!" butter is strong motivator.


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## whitzend (Dec 1, 2011)

Missy said:


> i found the best way to solve nipping was to teach kissing. put some butter on the back of your hand and teach him the word Kiss when he licks. when he he nips say "no bite! Kiss!" butter is strong motivator.


At this point..(Cooper's top front ,razor blade teeth have finally come in) I will try anything  Big thank you!


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## jabojenny (Sep 18, 2011)

Missy said:


> i found the best way to solve nipping was to teach kissing. put some butter on the back of your hand and teach him the word Kiss when he licks. when he he nips say "no bite! Kiss!" butter is strong motivator.


Yep that's what I did with Timmy and I think it worked like a charm. When he starts nipping I tell him "kisses" and he immediately starts licking me. We went away this weekend with Timmy and a house full of guests including a two year old and he was sooooo good about not nipping even without me saying "kisses" so I agree that this will diminish in time.

Just an FYI, when Timmy started going potty outside instead of his pad I stopped giving him treats when he went potty just praise. We are working on charge words in obedience class and he seems to really like it when I say "Yes!" his charge word.


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