# PLEASE help with a little disagreement...



## HayCarambaMama (Dec 8, 2007)

between DH and me. You see, we briefly had an Aussie/shep mix that DH took to obedience class at Petsmart. (Long story, short, the dog was way too aggressive with the children, biting them in the face and we had to find a new home for him) Anyway, Petsmart taught DH about "clicker" training and gave him free clickers. Well, I grew up with a wonderful beagle/jack russell (DH never ever had a dog) and we trained him without ever using a clicker. It's kind of foreign to me. I use treats. I've been training Bonnie to do all sorts of cool things using just patience, repitition and treats (no clicker). DH is ticked with me since I'm not using the free clicker. LOL Please tell me I'm not making a fatal flaw. Please tell me that if I ever want to do SERIOUS agility training in the future (when I have a scrap of spare time!!!) I can pick up and start clicker training with her??? It won't be too late? I just don't have more than 15 min ever couple of days to train her and, honestly, I'd rather not have to LEARN how to clicker train! LOL
You're a PEACH if you got this far in a very long-winded post!


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

You and Bonnie can pick up clicker training any time you're ready. We've had rescue dogs come into our program that had been trained using any variety of methods and I was able to clicker train them with no problem. They learned, or re-learned, just fine.

If what you're doing is working, then stick with it.

Wanda


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## HayCarambaMama (Dec 8, 2007)

Phew! Thank you so much! What a relief! She's such a smart dog -- I'm sure she could pick it up fast. I, on the other hand, require more learning!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

You can tell your DH that clicker training is great but if you aren't good with the clicker, your dog isn't going to learn it! Especially with agility! I found that I am not fast enough to click agility. Some people do good at it but not me!

Amanda


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Clicker training is fabulous and helps dogs learn really fast! I used clicker training with my last litter and it stuck in their heads too well (I'm still having a hard time retraining my Piaget from sitting as soon as he sees a training opportunity, but it obviously didn't hurt him since he finished his championship in near-record timing!).

However, if your Bonnie responds well to treats, she will learn quickly via that method as well. 

You don't want the two of you to have dischord over training though, so I hope you can sit down and discuss both methods and reach a compromise. Both are good, but honestly, your husband is at an advantage with wanting to do clicker training, in my opinion. In an emergency situation, anyone can make a cluck/click sound with their tongue, but not everyone can pull a treat from their pocket when a dog is running.

If you two work together, it will be best for dear Bonnie Lass. Maybe both of you can attend a class with Bonnie?


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Ha ha ha! I have to laugh after finally posting my reply and seeing that Amanda has a differing response from me. She's an agility expert (in comparison to me for sure!), but I have great everyday responders (and have no idea how hers are in everyday life situation, so I can't compare). I'm just an Average Joe with training and training experience and Amanda is much more advanced in this regard, so I have to suggest you weigh her advice more heavily.

Clicker training *DOES* require the trainer to be trained! If you don't know what you are doing, it isn't going to be effective.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2007)

So what happens if you lose the clicker?? is this something you have to carry around for the life of the dog ???


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

LOL Kimberly, no I would say don't ever say no to clicker!!!- I just honestly can't do it for agility except for teaching contacts. As the clicker tool is amazing for dogs. And at least when I click, I always click and treat so Dora knows dang well click means treat! I was having a heck of a time teaching Dora to back up in Rally and some havanese people told me to do it with a clicker. Something I spent a few weeks on was fixed in 10 minutes! So the clicker is used by me 

I am just saying for agility, it is a no go for me! Also, there are a lot of people who never get the clicker cause they don't really understand it so their dog doesn't either! I would recommend doing some reading beforehand!

Donna- won't you have a puppy in a few weeks? Why don't you guys do a training challenge, each take a dog and teach the same behavior. You use treats, he uses the clicker. You might both learn something <BG>

Amanda


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Diane, it is only used for the immediate training - similar to training with treats. Because it is audible and usually used in conjuntion with treats (taste), it usually works faster than just strict treat training. I will have to look up my records, but I had my last litter trained to sit with a clicker in just a day. (I think they were only 5 or 6 weeks old.)


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Diane- I think of the clicker like any other training tool. Example like a leash, while Dora doesn't need it all the time, I get it out sometimes and work with it. Sometimes it would be best to have it there with me, other times I don't have it, and sometimes I have to go back to using it. I have my clicker in my bag with a lot of different tools!

Sorry I just saw Kimberly's post and rather than up my count- once Dora knows a behavior, I don't treat her every time she does it. Same thing with click, I don't click every time she does it. I usually use the clicker and the treats when I am teaching more difficult behaviors or clicking is especially helpful to use as a cue for a behavior does naturally and I want to use it!

Amanda


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Pshaw! Up your post count if you feel like it!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Okay just cause I am listening to the Queen Yaker!

Here is an amazing site on clicker training that you can spend hours and lots of money on!

http://www.clickertraining.com/


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I used the clicker with Kubrick and I really liked it, though I don't think it's absolutely necessary to teach a behavior. It does get his attention a lot more quickly, though, and I do think he learns a little faster than with treats alone. I found a puppy class that was all taught with a clicker and that worked really well since it taught ME how to use one.


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## HayCarambaMama (Dec 8, 2007)

ama0722 said:


> Donna- won't you have a puppy in a few weeks? Why don't you guys do a training challenge, each take a dog and teach the same behavior. You use treats, he uses the clicker. You might both learn something <BG>
> 
> Amanda


This idea makes me LOL! You know my DH and I tooooo well!! I will make a New Year Rez to learn clicker training! :biggrin1:


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## ChristineL (Aug 31, 2007)

I'm by no means an agility expert, but the people who were the experts at my dog training club have never used clicker training, nor have I. The dogs seemed to respond and perform more than just fine without it, so i say go with whatever you find easiest and most comfortable.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

I also love clicker training but like Amanda had to drop it with agility. It's funny how it worked good for Amanda on the contacts but that is where I had the problems, I could not get Ry to stay on the contact when I would click, for some reason he got it in his head the click ment he was done. It was very odd as he knows "o.k." is my release word not click so I tried dropping the clicker and used a verbal "yes" and it worked. 

I still use the clicker at home when training and find it very helpful, they know when mom has the clicker it's time to work. I'd would suggest taking a class and see how you like it compared to the training you are doing now.


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

I tried clicker training years ago, I didn't like it. 

Timing is the most important thing in training and I can say "yes" faster than I can click. A class full of people clicking also drove me nuts.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Leeann,
Click did not work for Isabelle on the contacts just Dora but then I retaught her contacts doing running contacts <BG>. Belle knows click means treat so she loses all concentration on everything and goes crazy. I can't use the clicker for her on obedience very well either. She just has too much energy and ADD. Everything is a distraction to Belle even praise which I hardly use with her until we are done. If I say yes or good girl, she says "great, mission accomplished, lets quit!"

Amanda


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Amanda, I just went to the clicker training site you posted. I used a clicker for a while but stopped because of my surgery and recuperation. We begin obedience classes Jan 9th. I'm not sure if they use clickers. Would it confuse Tessa if I used a clicker at home and something different in class? 

Also, I think I was using it wrong, I was clicking at the END of the behavior and the site said to click DURING the desired behavior. I was using it for housetraining in addition to "sit", "down", etc and didn't want to interrupt her  Guess I was wrong and despite me she's doing very well anyway!

Anyway, do you recommend the books/videos on this site? If so which ones? Do you recommend anything else they offer?

Sorry for so many questions....


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I've never used clicker training with any of my dogs, and they did just fine. With Kodi, I can just do hand signals most of the time. I just started treat training with Shelby again, because we have some issues to work on. :frusty:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I use the clicker when I really want to mark a behavior and need a marker real fast and especially when I want to say "yes you are doing what I want you to do!" That is what the click means. Sometimes I use the clicker daily and sometimes I don't use it for months. I just really try and see what works for her and if I feel like it isn't, I try something new. I find I am pretty hands on with the girls and sometimes I show them what I want- usually luring with a treat.

I will give an example I wanted to teach Dora to walk with me and when I walk backwards, she needs to walk backwards right next to me for 3 of my steps (about 12 of hers)- it is a rally sign for you enthusiast in the excellent level. So I start off with her in front of me in a sit and I walk into her. I have the clicker in my hand and at the point where she steps backwards, I would click and treat. Then I would do it until I felt like she got it, not click and treat as much and make her walk further back. We then did it with her next to me, up against a wall so she can't bend out. When she took that first step back, CLICK, then treat. Then we concentrated on straight back ups, etc. So that is an example where the clicker really really paid off! Trying to explain a behavior that isn't natural just using treats is difficult and frustrating for all involved so the clicker was priceless here!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Jan- you may try your local book store. I know I read the basic book awhile ago. It first perked my interest.
http://clickertraining.com/store/?item=dogtrkitpl

I also have this book (minus the cover from when Dora was a puppy!) http://clickertraining.com/store/?item=doshdoau It is more on the philosophy of clicker and talks about how they use it for other animals. This is what made my mind click with what clicker really meant!

But even if you play on the site, you can watch some videos and get a good idea! She also has a monthly newsletter you can get for free where she talks about clicker training which is pretty nice.

And now I discovered some cool toys. http://clickertraining.com/store/?item=doshdoau


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks Amanda!


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Amanda you always crack me me up with your stories of Belle. That story kind of reminds me of how Riley is with the clicker in agility. We did great with the clicker in obedience but I lose him when clicking in agility. I'm still not sure why, could have been me and my timing or maybe the faster pace would get him all worked up, who knows. Our trainer is really great, she helps us find what works individually and has us use it.

Jan I think I may have said this before but I have to give you credit for clicker training potty.. Very hard thing to do with your timing, you are suppose to click right as they are finishing... ummm yea it is very easy to miss the right time to click. I cant wait to hear how you and Tessa do in your class next year.


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks Leeann, I was clicking at the end but the site said "during". Either way she caught on pretty quickly and is ringing her bell to go out. She just needs to learn what to do when she's in a different part of the house! I can't wait for classes too. I seriously think she may be great at agility, she seems to be a natural and has no fear, she really enjoys jumping and climbing. But who knows, in a class situation it may be far different. I'll just do whatever she wants to do, as long as she's having fun.


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