# Poop...can we talk?



## betteboop57 (Apr 9, 2014)

Poop is not the nicest subject to discuss, but I'm driving myself crazy.
(I did post this on the FB page, so if this is a repeat, sorry about that)

Teddy has been on Simply Nourish since we brought him home (switched him slowly from Royal Canine) back in March/April. He's been doing pretty well on it all this time; there were days where he didn't eat at all, but the vet said sometimes little ones can be finicky like that and Teddy was growing well. Every so often his poop would be really soft. (a few here on the forum also told me NOT to give in to Teddy being picky with his food)
About a month ago I noticed his poop was soft more often than not and he even had a few bouts of diarrhea; 1-2 days a week for two weeks) I thought it was the treats we were giving him, so we stopped all treats except the small training treats (Pet Botanics Training Reward) he's had for months and months. We thought we would add back one kind of treat at a time to see which one, if any, was causing it.
The past two weeks he's been eating VERY well and his poops were little "tootsie rolls", with a day or so here and there being soft and a few times VERY soft where it's almost impossible to pick up. I found out my hubby was giving him one of his biscuits once in the morning (he says he doesn't remember me telling him NO treats, UGH MEN!!)...so now I've bundled them all & put them away completely. And the past 4 days has only had the training treats. Well, he left us a 'present' the other day when we were out for an hour. And just now, he had an extremely soft poop that I had to pull out grass to get it up...he also took a few steps, had a few more 'droplets' and then another few steps. <sigh> The last being what looked like mucus.
I just bought a brand new bag of his food and I'm not sure I should continue to give it to him. I know you should change food gradually, but all I have is this brand new bag.
I did a LOT of research before switching him to Simply Nourish & Dog Adviser gave this food a very high rating.
Anyone have any ideas? I'm about to bake treats from scratch and now not sure I should do that!
I KNOW some of you are going to say to give him RAW food...I can tell you that isn't going to happen in this house. uke:
Is it possible that the last bag of food was 'bad'?? It takes him about 4-5 weeks to go through a bag of food. 
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog.../simply-nourish-dry/


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Molly had a period when her stools got soft and even liquidy for no apparent reason. After a thorough check up at the vets they could find nothing wrong. I used a bland diet to normalize her stools and then gradually added back her kibble. I also took away all treats that did not have the same protein as her kibble (which is bison and venison). This seemed to do the trick to get her back to normal. She is just now starting to get back some of her other favorite treats and things seem to be fine.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

betteboop57 said:


> Poop is not the nicest subject to discuss, but I'm driving myself crazy.
> (I did post this on the FB page, so if this is a repeat, sorry about that)
> 
> Teddy has been on Simply Nourish since we brought him home (switched him slowly from Royal Canine) back in March/April. He's been doing pretty well on it all this time; there were days where he didn't eat at all, but the vet said sometimes little ones can be finicky like that and Teddy was growing well. Every so often his poop would be really soft. (a few here on the forum also told me NOT to give in to Teddy being picky with his food)
> ...


Young dogs (and some older ones!) are prone to what is known as "dietary indiscretion". In other words, they eat all sorts of things they shouldn't, and the results are sometimes less than positive. If he is EVER off leash outdoors, it is entirely possible that he's eating something gross like dead worms or bunny poop or even half-dried grass clippings and they don't agree with his tummy.

If he is ALWAYS on leash outdoors, and you KNOW he's not eating anything else, it's possible that he has a sensitivity to some ingredient in his current food. That doesn't mean it's not a great food&#8230; any dog can have an allergy to any specific ingredient, just like people can.

You can have them tested for sensitivities by Nutriscan, either through your vet, or you can send it in yourself. (Google them) I found it was helpful to do it with my vet, as she was able to interpret the results better for me.

Or&#8230; you can try switching to a limited ingredient food, preferably with a different protein than you are currently feeding, and see if that helps. One way or the other, I'm afraid you WILL have to open that new bag of food. After you have slowly switched, you can hold onto the bag for a bit and see if the new food works better. If it looks like the new food is working, donate the open bag to a local rescue. They can always use food!


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## RitaandRiley (Feb 27, 2012)

My Reo has food intolerances. His symptoms were voluminous, soft stools and weight loss. He is now on Royal Canin Potato and Venison food, which I'm not thrilled with but works like a charm. I definitely know he cannot deal with beef or turkey.
Karen, how reliable is that test? I'd love to try it. Seems easier than the trial and error routine.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

RitaandRiley said:


> My Reo has food intolerances. His symptoms were voluminous, soft stools and weight loss. He is now on Royal Canin Potato and Venison food, which I'm not thrilled with but works like a charm. I definitely know he cannot deal with beef or turkey.
> Karen, how reliable is that test? I'd love to try it. Seems easier than the trial and error routine.


My vet suggested it, so it must be better than guess work.  But I really needed her to help me decipher it, because it didn't make much sense to me. He showed no reaction at all to beef, and I KNOW he is horribly beef intolerant. She said that if the dog has had NO contact with beef for quite a while, their system calms down, and they don't show as reactive to it. Which makes sense, because we are very careful to avoid it.

Then I was confused because the only thing he showed a real sensitivity to was white fish&#8230; which I've never (knowingly) fed him. BUT, she had me take him off the salmon oil capsules he was getting, because she said there could be cross contamination. SHe also told me to read labels carefully. It turned out that our CAT food has white fish in it. And Dave has a habit of giving Kodi a few bits of her food when he fills her dish (he can't reach the dish, because it's up on a shelf) So we stopped that. 

Finally, although his reaction to dairy was in the range that they consider acceptable, it was at the high end of that range. She suggested that we take him off all dairy&#8230; which is a pain, because we used a lot of cheese for training treats. Also LOTS of commercial treats have whey in them, which is the protein part of milk, and the most likely to cause a reaction. So I have to read all treat labels carefully.

The good news is that, knock wood, since we have made these changes, he hasn't had another Clostridium overgrowth. So we seem to be on the right track!


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## betteboop57 (Apr 9, 2014)

krandall said:


> Young dogs (and some older ones!) are prone to what is known as "dietary indiscretion". In other words, they eat all sorts of things they shouldn't, and the results are sometimes less than positive. If he is EVER off leash outdoors, it is entirely possible that he's eating something gross like dead worms or bunny poop or even half-dried grass clippings and they don't agree with his tummy.
> 
> If he is ALWAYS on leash outdoors, and you KNOW he's not eating anything else, it's possible that he has a sensitivity to some ingredient in his current food. That doesn't mean it's not a great food&#8230; any dog can have an allergy to any specific ingredient, just like people can.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if you or anyone else remembers, but Teddy is like pigs in Italy that search out truffles....he searches WORMS!! It is THE grossest thing! He also will run, catch & eat bugs & the occasional dead tiny frog he finds in the grass! (ever try getting a dried up frog out of a dogs mouth???) For this reason, he is rarely off the leash in our very large FENCED yard.

I do my VERY best to get him away from whatever spot he is digging his nose in...but sometimes it's really hard. He also is a grass eater...and NOT just when his tummy is upset. Again, we do our best to keep him from doing that.

I looked up that test. EEK! $280 is quite expensive & I'm not sure we can budget that for a few months at least. :juggle:

I'm going to give it one more week of just the food and training treat & keep a log (sort of like I did when the twins were babies...to remember who did what & when! LOL).

I also agree that just because a food is rated high, it doesn't mean it's for every dog. The first 2 ingredients on Simply Nourish is Chicken, Chicken Meal. They do have an adult limited ingredient food....the protein looks like Salmon.

Maybe I'll try that. Teddy is just over 10lbs and 13 months old. OK to start adult food??? Maybe the puppy food is too 'rich' for him now??


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## betteboop57 (Apr 9, 2014)

Has anyone heard of or used a prebiotic & probiotic? If so, what do you use??

Believe it or not, after almost 2 years of going from doctor to doctor & finally going to the Cleveland Clinic (sort of like the Mayo Clinic), my problem seems to have been solved with probiotics!!! Sooooo, I'm thinking could this be the same for Teddy??

Here's one I saw:
http://www.petsmart.com/featured-sh..._id=36-19284&_t=pfm=category&pfmvalue=faceted


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

betteboop57 said:


> I'm not sure if you or anyone else remembers, but Teddy is like pigs in Italy that search out truffles....he searches WORMS!! It is THE grossest thing! He also will run, catch & eat bugs & the occasional dead tiny frog he finds in the grass! (ever try getting a dried up frog out of a dogs mouth???) For this reason, he is rarely off the leash in our very large FENCED yard.
> 
> I do my VERY best to get him away from whatever spot he is digging his nose in...but sometimes it's really hard. He also is a grass eater...and NOT just when his tummy is upset. Again, we do our best to keep him from doing that.
> 
> ...


Ha! Sounds like Kodi! 

Yes, the food sensitivity testing isn't cheap, but I was spending a lot on vet bills and medicine every time he had another bout of Clostridium, to say noting of the lost sleep when he got sick. (It causes severe gas, and can be quite painful) We did try switching proteins and going to a limited ingredient food before we went with the testing, so that is not a bad place to start.

"Puppy food" is a marketing ploy to get more shelf space in the pet store. There is no reason that puppies can't be started right on "adult" dog food the day they come home, as long as the kibble is a size that they can handle. So there is no reason you can't switch now.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

betteboop57 said:


> Has anyone heard of or used a prebiotic & probiotic? If so, what do you use??
> 
> Believe it or not, after almost 2 years of going from doctor to doctor & finally going to the Cleveland Clinic (sort of like the Mayo Clinic), my problem seems to have been solved with probiotics!!! Sooooo, I'm thinking could this be the same for Teddy??
> 
> ...


Yes, Kodi gets probiotics daily. There are lots of "pet" ones on the market, and few of them have enough of the good bacteria to be useful. Get a good quality human one. My vet suggested Jarrowdophilus, which I get at Whole Foods, but my understanding is that you can get it other places too. It must be kept refrigerated, so look for it in a refrigerated case, where ever you shop.

There's another brand of human grade probiotics that Dave has mentioned, but I don't remember the name, or where you can get it. Hopefully he'll pipe up. If not, PM him, if you can't find the Jarrowdophilus.


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## Marbel (May 20, 2014)

I'm going this same issue with Chloe regarding pooping - firm, soft, diarrhea. Took her to vet tested fine, but was put on the that antibiotic what begins with an "m" for 14 days and a bland diet for 3 weeks. She was eating Nature's Variety Chicken - I have since bought her the Salmon flavor and will begin that once she is weaned off the bland diet at the end of next week.

Since she's been on the meds and bland diet, no problem with poop. It has firmed up quite nicely. She hasn't had any treats for past two weeks. Once begin back normal diet with Salmon and I see if that helps for a least 2 weeks, before reintroducing her to treats again. I'm trying to see is she has an allergy to the chicken or something.

Also started her on probiotics human grade recommend by Dave (also vet recommend as well).


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## betteboop57 (Apr 9, 2014)

Dave??? I probably have seen his posts....but "HEY DAVE?? Can you show yourself? (or can someone give me his info so I can contact him?


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## betteboop57 (Apr 9, 2014)

krandall said:


> Ha! Sounds like Kodi!
> 
> Yes, the food sensitivity testing isn't cheap, but I was spending a lot on vet bills and medicine every time he had another bout of Clostridium, to say noting of the lost sleep when he got sick. (It causes severe gas, and can be quite painful) We did try switching proteins and going to a limited ingredient food before we went with the testing, so that is not a bad place to start.
> 
> "Puppy food" is a marketing ploy to get more shelf space in the pet store. There is no reason that puppies can't be started right on "adult" dog food the day they come home, as long as the kibble is a size that they can handle. So there is no reason you can't switch now.


OK, thanks! I'm going to get the limited ingredient adult small breed one tonight. I do believe it's the same small triangle as the puppy. 
We've never experienced him being in any kind of pain, and his gas has be very, very few and far between....maybe 3 times in the past 8 mos we've had him.

This past week 80% his poop has been what I would call normal. Yesterday, it was like semi soft ice cream. UGH!! I would think IF it was the food, he wouldn't have normal at all????


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## betteboop57 (Apr 9, 2014)

Molly120213 said:


> Molly had a period when her stools got soft and even liquidy for no apparent reason. After a thorough check up at the vets they could find nothing wrong. I used a bland diet to normalize her stools and then gradually added back her kibble. I also took away all treats that did not have the same protein as her kibble (which is bison and venison). This seemed to do the trick to get her back to normal. She is just now starting to get back some of her other favorite treats and things seem to be fine.


How old was Molly when this started? Was it all of a sudden?


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Puppies that are teething may experience loose stools.

Here's a good article and video from Dr. Karen Becker on the topic of diarrhea:

What to Do When Your Dog Gets Diarrhea

She recommends a bland diet of cooked ground turkey and pumpkin (plain canned or fresh cooked).

Good luck!


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## betteboop57 (Apr 9, 2014)

MarinaGirl said:


> Puppies that are teething may experience loose stools.
> 
> Here's a good article and video from Dr. Karen Becker on the topic of diarrhea:
> 
> ...


Thanks....I don't think he's teething, he's a year old. The diarrhea is not constant either. He can go days without a problem....then a day of very soft stools and then back to normal. He did have a few bouts of a few days of diarrhea, but that was a few weeks ago.

That site has a LOT of info though!!! THANKS!!


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Molly was about 8 months old when this happened. It happened all of a sudden, while she was eating the same food and treats she normally did. When her stools did not normalize on their own my vet put her on a course of Metronidozole. This seemed to help as she is back on the same food now with no further problems.


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## betteboop57 (Apr 9, 2014)

Molly120213 said:


> Molly was about 8 months old when this happened. It happened all of a sudden, while she was eating the same food and treats she normally did. When her stools did not normalize on their own my vet put her on a course of Metronidozole. This seemed to help as she is back on the same food now with no further problems.


Hmmm....that's just a little weird, don't you think? Glad she's better!!


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

If you look at the post from Marbel it looks like Chloe had a similar situation to Molly's that was also treated by the vet and responded. When we couldn't pinpoint the exact cause of her symptoms and she wasn't responding to the bland diet alone I was willing to give the medicine a try. I am keeping her on a diet with more unusual protein sources in case it was the chicken that was upsetting her.


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## Marbel (May 20, 2014)

Molly120213 said:


> If you look at the post from Marbel it looks like Chloe had a similar situation to Molly's that was also treated by the vet and responded. When we couldn't pinpoint the exact cause of her symptoms and she wasn't responding to the bland diet alone I was willing to give the medicine a try. I am keeping her on a diet with more unusual protein sources in case it was the chicken that was upsetting her.


Chloe had been on a bland diet for last 3 weeks along with meds for 2 weeks. Her stools stabilized and were fine - this past week was the gradual switch back to kibble - the main protein is Salmon - so here we go again - her stools are more now and starting to soften up - she's also been on a probiotic for past 3 weeks - daily. I'm praying this doesn't turn into diarrhea again - next would a LID diet - turkey I'm thinking. Her bland Hills diet was low fat first three ingredients water, turkey liver, pork liver. I'm on Nature's Variety kibble.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Sorry Chloe is still having GI issues. Thankfully Molly has been back to normal with her pooping but it took awhile. She seems to be tolerating her food with venison and bison as the protein. Keeping her treats with the same proteins seems to help too, although she loves her treats that have chicken in them. I hope you find something soon that Chloe will tolerate as well.


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## Marbel (May 20, 2014)

Molly120213 said:


> Sorry Chloe is still having GI issues. Thankfully Molly has been back to normal with her pooping but it took awhile. She seems to be tolerating her food with venison and bison as the protein. Keeping her treats with the same proteins seems to help too, although she loves her treats that have chicken in them. I hope you find something soon that Chloe will tolerate as well.


I'm trying the LID with turkey by Nature's Variety now. Stools loose today. I've tried chicken and salmon by Nature's Variety not sure what ingredient is causing the issue. I'm still doing the probiotics and started again today with some canned pumpkin. I hope to get this resolved soon. I wish more stores had samples to try. I'm spending a small fortune in kibble.

It's funny she does fine on the Hill diet that has turkey liver and pork.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Do you have Petsmart or Petco by you? Here they will let you return an opened bag of dog food if your dog doesn't like it. I did this more than once when I was trying to find a food Molly would eat. Some of the independently owned pet stores will do this also. If you go online to the pet food company website they often have sample size bags to try.


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## Marbel (May 20, 2014)

Molly120213 said:


> Do you have Petsmart or Petco by you? Here they will let you return an opened bag of dog food if your dog doesn't like it. I did this more than once when I was trying to find a food Molly would eat. Some of the independently owned pet stores will do this also. If you go online to the pet food company website they often have sample size bags to try.


Yes, I do that's where I shop - but I don't have my receipts?


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I'm not sure if they would let you exchange it without a receipt but it wouldn't hurt to ask. At least you know to save your receipts now in case you want to do this in the future.


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## Deacon Blues (Nov 22, 2013)

This pic is from a post or Rory's blog entitled, "Why I'll Always Feed a Raw Diet". The brand I use delivers it right to the front door (anywhere in the US) every 8 weeks.

The surface it's photographed on is her indoor toilet option which is oh so handy now that the rain and cold has returned.


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## 1stladysoul (May 17, 2013)

This forum is such a help when I am feeling stressed with Skye's issues. I had been having a real issue with Skye refusing to eat anything at all after she was given some Turkey for Xmas. I did discover, however, that she was willing to do any and everything for her treats (she was getting small pieces of True Chews from Petsmart and tiny pieces of freeze dried chicken). I decided to try another food for the first time from Petsmart called Freshpet Vital Grain-Free Chicken/Beef/Salmon Recipe. I wasn't happy about it but needed her on a good quality food (Dog Food Advisor has this one listed as 4 Stars). She eats this food very well, it is a soft food and I do not add any kibble because for some reason, she prefer a soft food. She is eating this food just fine but her stools since I started her on this food is now firm but dark in color. Has anyone experienced dark stools? She is not showing any signs of illness, has just as much energy and vitality as ever. Should I be concerned about the dark stools? They are not runny and there is no mucus in the stools or anything else. Any suggestions or comments, as always, is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

1stladysoul said:


> This forum is such a help when I am feeling stressed with Skye's issues. I had been having a real issue with Skye refusing to eat anything at all after she was given some Turkey for Xmas. I did discover, however, that she was willing to do any and everything for her treats (she was getting small pieces of True Chews from Petsmart and tiny pieces of freeze dried chicken). I decided to try another food for the first time from Petsmart called Freshpet Vital Grain-Free Chicken/Beef/Salmon Recipe. I wasn't happy about it but needed her on a good quality food (Dog Food Advisor has this one listed as 4 Stars). She eats this food very well, it is a soft food and I do not add any kibble because for some reason, she prefer a soft food. She is eating this food just fine but her stools since I started her on this food is now firm but dark in color. Has anyone experienced dark stools? She is not showing any signs of illness, has just as much energy and vitality as ever. Should I be concerned about the dark stools? They are not runny and there is no mucus in the stools or anything else. Any suggestions or comments, as always, is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


There's nothing wrong with her stools being dark, as long as they are not black and tarry.

You could survive on freeze dried backpacker rations, but you probably wouldn't enjoy it. Is it any big surprise that dogs prefer something yummy and soft to hard, homogenous lumps? We feed kibble for our own convenience, not because there is any advantage for the dog. I know several people who feed Freshpet whose dogs seem to really like it. AS long as the Freshpet is working for you, and it seems to agree with her, I wouldn't think twice about it!


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## 1stladysoul (May 17, 2013)

Thank you so much for responding. She does really seem to enjoy Freshpet so I will continue as I love knowing she is happy and full! Thanks again!:whoo:


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