# Low tail?



## Sparkle (May 17, 2012)

What does a low tail mean? My breeder said my puppy's tail is set just a little too low. Is this something I should be concerned about? Pet only, not show. And breeder is keeping the other for show. I fully understand her keeping the "best", just trying to figure this all out. It makes her rear end not look as tall. More level.

Pat


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It makes ABSOLUTELY NO difference in terms of pet quality. She may just not hold her tail up in a flag over her back the way most Havanese do, or she may only do it when she is moving. We once had someone on the forum with a rescue Havanese who had LOST his tail COMPLETELY and h still was just as fantastic a pet as every other Hav on the forum! If you don't intend to show in conformation, and love her in all other ways, I wouldn't let it worry you. 

I bought Kodi in spite of the breeder warning me that he'd be on the large side. I wanted a performance dog, not a conformation prospect. I haven't regretted my decision for a moment!


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Karen is right, tail set is only important in conformation, the tail set may even be so slight only a trained eye would notice. Our Hav's can control their tails, when scared or felling timid they may hold there tail down, or at half mast if unsure.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I wanted to bring up a tail topic. I think Maddies is a bit low never has bothered me. Zoeys tail is set good for conformation but it is tight. What causes a tight tail. Is it just all the different genetic background and some have loose tails and some don't.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

A perfect tail set is something that is looked for in conformation. For our pet babies, a little high, a little low.......makes no difference. If your breeder hadn't mentioned it to you you probably would never know. Enjoy!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> I wanted to bring up a tail topic. I think Maddies is a bit low never has bothered me. Zoeys tail is set good for conformation but it is tight. What causes a tight tail. Is it just all the different genetic background and some have loose tails and some don't.


This is what the standard says:

"The tail is high-set and arches forward up over the back. It is plumed with long, silky hair. The tail plume may fall straight forward or to either side of the body."

So a tight tail should be penalized, but it is not a DQ. I've seen a lot of dogs with tight tails even at West Minster, so it is certainly not penalized heavily in an otherwise good dog.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Do you mean that the tail curls tightly? I think that is what Rosie's does when it is up. When she lets it down it drags the ground. Well the hair drags the ground, the tail itself is not all that long.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Luciledodd said:


> Do you mean that the tail curls tightly? I think that is what Rosie's does when it is up. When she lets it down it drags the ground. Well the hair drags the ground, the tail itself is not all that long.


Some Havs have tails that curl up, like a pug's tail. That's what is called a "tight tail". That is incorrect according to the standard, which calls for the tail to curve forward OVER the back. But as I said, it seems not to be viewed as a major fault by a lot of judges, because there are many successful show dogs with tight tails.

In any case, for a pet it makes absolutely NO difference at all.


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Course it make no difference to me either. But did I not read that the silks had flag tails and the regular Havanese had curved tails? Maybe I dreamed that. But Rosie doesn't have a flag tail, it curves over her back so that it touches the back. Good thing I love her. lol


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

TAILSET and TAIL CARRIAGE are two different things. Tail set is just the location it comes off the rump at the base of the tail. It has to do with the angle of the pelvis, but it makes little difference other than minutia of conformation. The original standard called for a "crozier" (shepherds hook), but for a long time handlers have been holding tails down tight on the dogs back while on the table and in pictures. Our personal ideal is the original standard, others follow what handlers do.


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

For a pet, tail set doesn't matter. Actually in the conformation ring it is not given much, if any consideration. Mine have the crozier tail. My Oliver's tail hair falls more to the right (handler's) side, when he got enough hair that I noticed. I was a bit concerned, not that that was a big deal. When he got his first 5 point major, I didn't care anymore because, while we were taking pictures, the judge commented he loved his correct tail.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Lucile, at the risk of starting a huge fight (Lord knows I pray not) a silk havanese is a HAVANESE. Just ask AKC. They're all the same.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mellowbo said:


> Lucile, at the risk of starting a huge fight (Lord knows I pray not) a silk havanese is a HAVANESE. Just ask AKC. They're all the same.


Actually,(and I agree with you, the LAST thing I want is another fight!eace while you might be correct in terms of the genetics behind them, as of last summer, Silk breeders could no longer register their Silks as Havanese. They can only be registered as Silks with HSDAA.

So there are some older dogs who registered as Havanese and as Silks, as of last summer, they are now registered either one way or the other.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Yes. Why did HSDAA impose that rule on themselves???


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## Sparkle (May 17, 2012)

Thanks for all of the great responses. Tom, yes, I was talking about tail set. It was just a smidgeon low. But it's all a moot point now. Our wonderful breeder changed our puppy! She is keeping 2 of the 3 girls, and as they're growing & developing, the slight low set tail seems to have corrected itself. They are all beautiful. We're still very excited & can't wait. I continue to learn so much from the wonderful owners/breeders on this forum. Can't thank you enough!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mellowbo said:


> Yes. Why did HSDAA impose that rule on themselves???


Because they know it is necessary if they are to differentiate themselves as a separate breed.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> This is what the standard says:
> 
> "The tail is high-set and arches forward up over the back. It is plumed with long, silky hair. The tail plume may fall straight forward or to either side of the body."
> 
> So a tight tail should be penalized, but it is not a DQ. I've seen a lot of dogs with tight tails even at West Minster, so it is certainly not penalized heavily in an otherwise good dog.


 So the wording arches forward means loose? Is it the word arch that is interpreted loose? I have never seen one falling strait forward. Because Zoey and Maddies tail's are tight they don't wiggle them like other Havanese. You can see the wiggle but not like a loose tail havanese


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## Luciledodd (Sep 5, 2009)

Carole I hope no fight either, but I have read that the Silk ones had no undercoat, longer neck and a flag tail. From the picture I saw the neck thing and the flag tail were obvious. As far as fights go, I have felt so bad lately that I am ready to jump right in the middle of them, but have decided that I will just not respond to anything else that I know in advance I am going to get lectured about. lol I know that they are both supposed to be Havanese, but different. Don't know how that happened and don't care.


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

Another tail question:

I keep Jack in a puppy cut. He has wavy hair on his body but his tail is a different texture. Is that normal? If his hair grew out (never going to happen) would his body hair straighten out?


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

I think the silk thing should not be discussed any more. I have dogs that could have been and chose not to. What their club does doesn't affect me or anyone not associated. Why rehash and open old wounds?
My dogs have undercoat, some more than others.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Becky, you are right. Sorry.


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