# old thread, don't bother to open, I just needed to update it



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Edited to add about a year later: We ended up not liking this stuff, and have gone back to using wood pellet litter.

We're working on using a different surface than litter with our current new puppies. It's going great so far. The stuff comes in a bunch of different colors, but we have to get a 4x8 piece, and cut it down to useable sizes. It does not hold odor like synthetic grass does, and is easier to clean.

This link shows the colors. The first color we bought, and currently using, is Sandstone, but we'd like to know what would be the most preferred color of the majority of people.

Thanks,

http://www.directmat.com/product.asp?productid=288


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## rokipiki (Oct 15, 2010)

Maybe green grass would be good! Puppies can link that with grass which will be their future potty surface


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

I like Ashberry. Doesn't hold the smell? I want to try this! Looking at the loops on the picture - is there any concern that nails might get caught in the loops?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> We're working on using a different surface than litter with our current new puppies. It's going great so far. The stuff comes in a bunch of different colors, but we have to get a 4x8 piece, and cut it down to useable sizes. It does not hold odor like synthetic grass does, and is easier to clean.
> 
> This link shows the colors. The first color we bought, and currently using, is Sandstone, but we'd like to know what would be the most preferred color of the majority of people.
> 
> ...


I'd choose either the sandstone or the hunter green.


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

krandall said:


> I'd choose either the sandstone or the hunter green.


I agree with Karen.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

DebW said:


> I like Ashberry. Doesn't hold the smell? I want to try this! Looking at the loops on the picture - is there any concern that nails might get caught in the loops?


The little puppies don't have any problem at all, so I don't think larger dogs would.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

6 views, and 5 replies, this is great feedback!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

I agree with the rest. The sandstone if you are trying teach solely indoor potty. People will want a neutral color. Green if you are getting ready to move them to the great outdoors.

I am trying visualize how they will work instead of the litter. How do you clean them? Do you lift them out daily and rinse? I think we will need another tutorial.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

rokipiki said:


> Maybe green grass would be good! Puppies can link that with grass which will be their future potty surface


Except dogs don't see color the way we do. And I'm SURE they can tell the difference between plastic and grass. 

Plus, my experience was that an indoor potty option was NO barrier to learning to go outside. Kodi started pottying outdoors, his own decision, the first day he was home. In the long run, it has been the litter box that we've had to work to maintain.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Color won't make any difference at all to the puppies. It's all about surface. 

We are using a piddle pad underneath, and changing when needed. Having spare mats makes it easy to make a change. The used mat goes in a laundry sink to wash. Liquid runs right through it, and it's a lot easier to clean than synthetic grass.

The little puppies have only been using it for a week, but to my sensitive nose, even the used ones don't smell. We also have some litter on top of another mat for the other dogs to use, and it's holding up well to a quick wash too with no retained smell.


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## RitaandRiley (Feb 27, 2012)

Dogs don't see green very well. Anything neutral would be fine with me.


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

I just went to order one - but it takes 3-4 weeks to ship a standard size? Was that your experience?


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## Thebean28 (Jan 4, 2013)

Are you placing the mat in a litter box or are they just going on the mat? 

I think I like hunter green. Even if dogs can't tell the color difference, I would probably just feel better picking something with a grass-like color. The sandstone may be too close to people's carpet colors?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> Color won't make any difference at all to the puppies. It's all about surface.
> 
> We are using a piddle pad underneath, and changing when needed. Having spare mats makes it easy to make a change. The used mat goes in a laundry sink to wash. Liquid runs right through it, and it's a lot easier to clean than synthetic grass.
> 
> The little puppies have only been using it for a week, but to my sensitive nose, even the used ones don't smell. We also have some litter on top of another mat for the other dogs to use, and it's holding up well to a quick wash too with no retained smell.


I was wondering if you were going to be able to transition the older dogs to it...

Always thinking toward the future, something more portable than the whole litter-and-box thing would be nice, but I really only want to have ONE indoor potty system!


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## RoutineAvocado (Feb 6, 2013)

Sandstone would be good. Whatever color is most similar to the box. But I have walnut floors so maybe the darker brown would blend better.

Keep us posted how it goes and if it stays odor-free! I like the litter but my floors are a bit messy with the pine pellets that escape. I cringe when I accidentally step on one and it turns into a little pile of saw dust 

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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

The little puppies have it in their whelping box, just like we used to start them on pellets at 3 weeks old. In other regular litter boxes for the other dogs, we've cut mats to fit, and they have some litter sprinkled on top. They're all using it, especially since we have had torrential rains every day for over a week.

Pam has found, and is still looking at other boxes to use. The one in the picture is due to be changed. The puppies are not inclined to sleep on it like some would be on the litter. They've been keeping their bed dry from the very start using it. They'll graduate to an expen pretty soon. They've been using this setup for about a week. It has a plastic smell to start with, but we let it air out on the screened porch for a couple of days, and even I don't smell it after that.

I really believe they can be easily trained to any surface, if you start at 3 weeks.


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

I just ordered a Spotty Potty via Wag.com and this is the type matt they use with their system.

I like either of the greens or the teal. 
http://www.wag.com/dog/p/spotty-training-place-422935

You can also order the matt by itself via Wag.com. On a side note they have super fast free shipping (1-2 days) over $35. If interested I can send you a referral email with a coupon code.
http://www.wag.com/dog/p/spotty-training-place-replacement-grass-225430


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Yeah, it's not an original idea. Pam had seen one at someone's house. We found the mat online, and didn't think we needed any added scent.

If any of you have watched any of the gold mining TV shows lately, this is the same stuff they call "miners' moss".


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

Renee, I'd appreciate that code. I'll send you my email. Thanks for the offer!


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## morriscsps (Aug 17, 2010)

I get it! :thumb: 

You put down a pee pad, then the mat. The mat lets stuff flow through but hides the gross pee pad and prevents the puppies from having a shredding party, right?

The sandstone color is nice.


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

Tom King said:


> Yeah, it's not an original idea. Pam had seen one at someone's house. We found the mat online, and didn't think we needed any added scent.
> 
> If any of you have watched any of the gold mining TV shows lately, this is the same stuff they call "miners' moss".


Thanks for posting the link. I wish I'd seen it sooner as I had to remove the artificial grass in my puppy pen as it didn't drain and started too reek shortly after being disinfected.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

morriscsps said:


> I get it! :thumb:
> 
> You put down a pee pad, then the mat. The mat lets stuff flow through but hides the gross pee pad and prevents the puppies from having a shredding party, right?
> 
> The sandstone color is nice.


Exactly right.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Dogs can only see blue, violet, yellow and some shades of gray. So I would choose a color that isn't around the house much even if it clashes with the decor. I like violet  TCastle Gray - Grizzlyhe has some violet maybe.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

morriscsps said:


> I get it! :thumb:
> 
> You put down a pee pad, then the mat. The mat lets stuff flow through but hides the gross pee pad and prevents the puppies from having a shredding party, right?
> 
> The sandstone color is nice.


 I think its a better idea than piddle pads because mine have gotten confused about soft pads and throw rugs. Especially my white bath mat. Mine have never had accidents on my hardwood surface. Teaching a pup on a textured surface that doesn't feel like a rug is such a good idea. I tried the litter and mine ate it. Back then I was worried it would not be good for them. I probably stopped to soon. That is why I also think the color should not be one that most people choose for a rug. Just thinking it may matter.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

I've never used indoor potty with my dogs, but I like sandstone.


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## puppy-love (Nov 9, 2012)

I agree with Suzi. There's been some throw rug confusion with my pup.

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## RickR (Feb 15, 2007)

Hunter green


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## RoutineAvocado (Feb 6, 2013)

For those of you picking colors like green and purple, are you concerned about confusion with your floors or do you prefer those colors aesthetically? I'd rather not draw guest's attention to the litter box by making it stand out.

Tom said the color doesn't matter to the puppies and it's all about surface. The pine pellets in our box are close to our floor color but the pup can easily tell the difference. Using plain pee pads might have confused some of your dogs because they feel like and lay flat like rugs, not because the color is the same.

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## Beau's mom (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm thinking along the same lines as Suzi . . . I don't think it should blend in with the rugs/floor. I think I like the gold or yellow, as we know that dogs can distinguish that color (as in tennis balls). If you do want more subtle, I think gray or brown.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

RoutineAvocado said:


> For those of you picking colors like green and purple, are you concerned about confusion with your floors or do you prefer those colors aesthetically? I'd rather not draw guest's attention to the litter box by making it stand out.
> 
> Tom said the color doesn't matter to the puppies and it's all about surface. The pine pellets in our box are close to our floor color but the pup can easily tell the difference. Using plain pee pads might have confused some of your dogs because they feel like and lay flat like rugs, not because the color is the same.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I agree. The pellets in Kodi's litter box match our kitchen floor almost exactly in color, and are also very close to the color of our hardwood floors. Kodi has never confused the litter with other surfaces. I think it has MUCH more to do with the "feel". In general, from what I've heard, I think the dogs MOST likely to confuse area rugs with pee pads are those who have used cloth, washable pee pads. I don't think it has anything to do with the color.

I just like the LOOK of the sandstone and hunter green best in a residential setting.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

It would be an interesting experiment. the yellow wouldn't be a color most people wouldn't use for a rug. The texture of the stuff probably is a plastic feel not like a rug. Color might make a difference who knows .


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

rdanielle said:


> I just ordered a Spotty Potty via Wag.com and this is the type matt they use with their system.


How securely is the mat held onto the frame? Maccabee has a party with his beds and I'd be concerned that he'd pull the mat off the frame and toss it around -- then chew on it.

TOM: How difficult do you think it woulld be to transition Maccabee from wood pellets to a mat like this? He uses the litter box at least 90% of the time.


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

I ordered the Piddle Place potty system - I believe the "turf" they use is this product, or something very similar. The potty system is unique (in my very limited experience) in that the urine falls down into an enclosed reservoir rather than into pee pee pads. 

It's gotten good reviews in regard to lack of smell. I'm hopeful!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

HannahBearsMom said:


> How securely is the mat held onto the frame? Maccabee has a party with his beds and I'd be concerned that he'd pull the mat off the frame and toss it around -- then chew on it.
> 
> TOM: How difficult do you think it woulld be to transition Maccabee from wood pellets to a mat like this? He uses the litter box at least 90% of the time.


The mat is heavy enough that I doubt he would drag it. We are in the stage of converting from litter to this, by putting some litter on top of a mat. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

DebW said:


> I ordered the Piddle Place potty system - I believe the "turf" they use is this product, or something very similar. The potty system is unique (in my very limited experience) in that the urine falls down into an enclosed reservoir rather than into pee pee pads.
> 
> It's gotten good reviews in regard to lack of smell. I'm hopeful!


Pam says she's seen one of those. It does use the same type of matting, only it's a lot thinner. I think a puppy trained to the matting like we are doing now would transition right to that system.

I expect the enzyme treatment for the holding tank is the same stuff used in RV holding tanks.

The mats do seem easy to clean, and with two weeks use, still aren't holding odor. I think it's pretty promising.


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

So glad to hear that! I'll report back with Sheldon's reaction to it - he got the idea behind artificial turf immediately, so I hope he'll transition to this. I also thought I might try vinegar in the holding tank as a cheap alternative to the enzyme treatment.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Thanks for all the input on color. I just ordered a roll of the Hunter Green. 

The puppies just got moved into an expen for the first time, with matting in a larger box than they had in the whelping box. They're taking to it right away. This is a two litter setup.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> Pam says she's seen one of those. It does use the same type of matting, only it's a lot thinner. I think a puppy trained to the matting like we are doing now would transition right to that system.
> 
> I expect the enzyme treatment for the holding tank is the same stuff used in RV holding tanks.
> 
> The mats do seem easy to clean, and with two weeks use, still aren't holding odor. I think it's pretty promising.


I can't WAIT to hear how it goes. Kodi transitioned to the fake grass in the Rascal Dog with no problem at all (though I did spray a little of their "attractant" on at first) but the smell of the fake grass got so bad so fast, I had to go back to just pellets. It would be SO much easier to use this when traveling than the big bucket of pellets if it works (and doesn't smell!!!)


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Update: The puppies took to it right off. They used only this for the first couple of weeks. By the time the Moms were ready to wean, and they stopped cleaning up after the babies, the mat was too much trouble to keep clean. At that point, we switched them back to the wood pellets, which they had no trouble at all with the transition.

They are still sleeping an a small pen, but the large play pen, and the screened porch both have several options. They have litter boxes with wood pellets, a couple of boxes with the mat, and a couple of grates.

The majority prefer to pee on the pellets, and poop on the grate. I wish it was the other way around, but we'll take it. Once in a while one will use the mat. They will use any of the options for either, so I guess we can't complain.

Pam put one of the boxes with the mat in the puppy room where the adults can get to it, along with regular litter boxes. They use either. I think being used to getting in a box helps indicate that it's an okay thing to do.

I think with one or two dogs, the mats will be a good option, especially for someone who doesn't want to deal with litter.


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

Sounds like we should stick with the pellets, although a mat would be nice for traveling.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Yeah, I was thinking how much easier than litter it would be for traveling too. But Kodi will only pee on a grate (and then, reluctantly)... absolutely will NOT poop on it. Of course he won't poop on the litter either unless there is NO option.

I think I'll still get some of it, and see if I can get him to accept it. It would be SO much easier than lugging a bucket of pellets around when we're traveling.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

wondering what the conclusion was on this type of material for an indoor potty option??


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

When we were at Tom and Pam's house last week, I noticed that the newer potty system did not have any fake grass. It was the box with a piddle pad covered by a grate.


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

I can't speak to using it with litters, but I love it with my single toddler. I have 2 pads from the Piddle Place system, which is a more porous version of the same material. I put one on a grate over the drain in my walk-in shower. Each day I rinse one with water and put out the fresh one.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

okay, so like the ugo dog? or the material he originally mentioned at the start of this thread?


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## HannahBearsMom (Jul 31, 2011)

Like the ugo dog. But, I think the ox is bigger and the sees are higher.

If I recall correctly, either Tom or Pam told me a while back, that the material started stinking after a while. But, they have a lot pf dogs, so it might work better in a 1 or 2 dog home.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

I wonder if there are other sites that sell this specific material, I'd love to try it out and see if Tillie could take to it at her 'ripe old age' as it's going to be an intense, long winter...


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

Tammy, try the Piddle Place replacement pad I mentioned, or a replacement pad for the Spotty Potty. Both are the plastic mesh without backing, which is the culprit that retains odor. The PP version is thinner and more porous, but the mats are smaller than the SP version. I have both.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

HannahBearsMom said:


> When we were at Tom and Pam's house last week, I noticed that the newer potty system did not have any fake grass. It was the box with a piddle pad covered by a grate.


No. That was the Rascal system. I don't know that we had one with the mat out when you were here.

Maccabee is doing great. Tibby and Nike take turns playing with him. He comes when I call him, and comes to me to pick him up. He runs out in the yard with the other dogs until his tongue hangs out, and is just now starting to run and play with the little puppies.

We went back to the litter with the little puppies. The mats will be okay with one or two dogs, but not so good with a bunch of puppies just starting to eat solid food.


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## jenna (Aug 23, 2013)

*State of the Art potty system*

I am getting a seven month old Havanese puppy at the end of the month. I have never used an indoor potty system before. This one looks interesting and I was wondering if anyone has tried it http://stateoftheart.me/.
I would love to know what you think of it. Thanks.


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## DebW (Jun 11, 2013)

Hi Jenna - I don't know that potty system, but looking at it, it is a reservoir system similar to the one I used, Piddle Place. I liked the Piddle Place system a lot - much more than the other potty options I had tried. 

Comparing it to the one on your link, a pro of the PP system is the removable pad (I had an extra one to switch out, and would throw them in the washer when need be). On the other hand, that is also a con with dogs who are inclined to grab the pad with their teeth.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I guess I'd be a little grossed out leaving pee sitting around for a week. I LIKE cleaning out the pee every time I see that Kodi has used the box. I understand it's in a reservoir, and sort of "out of sight, out of mind", but I would still know it was sitting there in the corner of my kitchen. (or office)


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## jenna (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks for your advice. Not sure what I'm going to do yet but your thoughts are very helpful.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Just an update to this thread.

We ended up not really liking this stuff, and went back to wood pellet litter.


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## olivia14 (Dec 6, 2014)

*Love your videos Tom!*

I enjoy watching your videos of the puppies! What a great set up you all have for the puppies!! thank you.


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