# Worried abou Dugan - High ALT level



## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Well, when Dugan was neutered 2 months ago, I had them do bloodwork and he had an ALT level of 205. The vet recommended that we retest in a few months. Well, I had him in yesterday again to have bloodwork done again, and his ALT is at 203 (should be under 100). 2 months ago his ALP was a little high, but now it is normal. He is going in on Tuesday for a bile acid test. He has also been throwing up in the mornings for the past few days. He had done this in the past, but had been better for the past month or two. Of course, I am really worried about my baby. I signed up for the yahoo liver support groups already. I will keep you all posted on how he is doing. He is growing normally. He is 8 months and he is 12 pounds.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Karen, don't get too worried yet. Increased ALTs can be do to many things. Dugan may have gotten into something that his young liver can't get rid of quickly. He may also be exposed to that same or different thing that's causing the ALT to stay at that level. Vomiting can be due to several things as well and/or may be related to his elevated ALT levels. 
What I'm trying to say is, don't drive yourself crazy YET. Once you have the bile acids you can go from there. Usually, even with an increased bile acid, you will just wait and re-do that test a month or so later. 
Keep us posted, sending you hugs.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Well, I KNOW how it can be stressful, Karen, but a high-ish level of 203 isn't so bad and can be caused by many things. Did Dugan get any vaccines at the time of his neutering or since? Have there been toxins in the yard, park, anywhere really? Has he been eating a lot of beef maybe, or foods higher in fat? 

The BAT will help see how the liver is reacting when he eats, so will be interesting to see. Let us know! In the meantime, Karen, I wouldn't worry and maybe you can avoid beef (red meat)(it "can" raise ammonia in the blood that then can raise the ALT) for this coming week or so.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

:hug: Karen:hug:
I'm sorry. I don't know anything about this,but I am sure you are worried. Keep good thoughts and try not to worry too much.:grouphug:


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Thanks guys. Dugan eats everything and anything, but I can't think of anything he could have eaten in the yard. I do mix chicken in with his kibble, but no red meat. I am going to go and buy vegatables today and mix that with his food instead of the chicken to lower the protein some. Like I said, he won't care, he eats anything. I am going to try not to worry too much until we get the bile acid test done. I know you all understand how easy it is to let your imagination go while and think something is really wrong with your baby. He is a happy boy and has tons of energy, so I going to try to relax until we see what is really going on.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Are the morning throw-ups the yellow foamies? I give half a small milkbone to each in the morning after the first potty of the day. It gets them in from the wet grass quickly, starts them off with a smile, and gets a little something in the tummy right away. Sometimes they puke because og empty tummies and it stopped the throw-ups for us. Try not to worry too much about the high ALTs, hopefully they will come down soon and it was some little nothing type thing.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Actually, the morning throw-ups are usually yellow foam with the morning treat (they get a few charlie bears and chicken treats after their morning potty). He usually throws up right after that. I may try giving hiim a snack before bed and see if that helps. I know they day they can vomit sometimes because they are hungry.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Hey Karen,
Do you think he could have picked something up at the dog park the other day? He was exploring the place pretty good. I wonder if he ate a poop there. I've seen him in action and it doesn't seem like he has a shunt. He is active, growing at a normal rate etc. I know how hard it is not to worry, but like everyone mentioned, it could be anything and not necessarily a liver problem. Send Dugan humps from my guys!


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## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

Good luck. I have been going through with little Nala. Her ALT was so high we did a BAT right away. Her first Bile Acid Test was so bad they said she most likely had a shunt. Her second Bile Acid Test -a few months later-was much better. Now they are not sure if she has a shunt...we are going to just keep going and have another re-test in 2 months or so before we explore further. 
While I was going through all of this we really even got back on her treats-little salmon ferret treats and dried sweet potatos. (I know salmon isn't supposed to be good for dogs with liver issues but they are smaller than a pencil eraser)
She has a very hard time with any fat-even the wrong dog treat can be a disaster. Someone gave her a strip of some kind of dog treat bacon and she was sick for days.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

http://www.idexx.com/animalhealth/analyzers/snapreader/lr0905final.pdf

Karen, this is a link to a roundtable discussion that Cheryl posted awhile back. It is very interesting. I think it said that about 10% of havanese with elevated alts have actual liver disease. If I recall correctly, havanese sometimes tend to run higher alts.

I know you are worried but this article may help you.
God Bless,
Carole


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Karen, you have so much encouraging feedback already, but I just wanted to jump in and add that I hope you aren't worrying. It sounds like you are being very good at looking into things immediately. I hope your diligence pays off with some good news.



maryam187 said:


> Karen, don't get too worried yet. Increased ALTs can be do to many things. Dugan may have gotten into something that his young liver can't get rid of quickly. He may also be exposed to that same or different thing that's causing the ALT to stay at that level. Vomiting can be due to several things as well and/or may be related to his elevated ALT levels.
> What I'm trying to say is, don't drive yourself crazy YET. Once you have the bile acids you can go from there. Usually, even with an increased bile acid, you will just wait and re-do that test a month or so later.
> Keep us posted, sending you hugs.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

karen, I am sure that the little baby will be fine! It was probably from eating too much poop!! The little stinker!! I just know he is ok! In my [email protected]!!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Karen-- I just wanted to give you Dugan and Brady a hug. folks here have great advice and the best is try not to worry until you know. :hug:


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Karen,
Casper had a ALT of 347 in Dec., and he has never been sick a day. I am having the bile acid test done on him also really soon. 

Casper does once in a while have the yellow foam throw up in AM, not really to often.

Sending :hug::hug: to you and Dungan, I am sure all will be ok, but it is a good thing to be aware of and have tested done.


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Karen, :hug: and wish you and Dugan the very best! Sending tons of positive thoughts.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Oh sorry to hear you ARE feeding something in the early morning and he throws that up too! I am still hopeing it's a simple thing that goes away on it's own. Hugs to little Dugan from me.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Karen, sending a hug and thinking of you and Dugan!


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

:hug: Karen we too are adding our good thoughts to you and Dugan.

Monte was my morning throw up guy, giving him a cookie before bed has made the world of differance for him.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Karen, I'm sorry to hear these news! I hope little Dugan is okay and please try not to worry (as hard as that may be!). :hug:


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Lynn,
I am sorry to hear that Casper has been having problems with this too. Please let us know what happens with the Bile Acid Test.


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Karen- I echo everyone else's comments about Dugan. Don't jump to conclusions or worry yourself sick. There are numerous reasons for liver enzymes to jump without a dog having liver disease. The bile acid test will give you much more information. But I want to commend you for getting a blood test on your Havanese when he was neutered. Its so easy to concentrate on foods, toys, etc. and avoid getting a blood test which is so important to the health of our dogs. You can't put a price on knowing what is going on with your dog's health. You are such a good Mom to do this for your Dugan. 

And don't fret about the occasional morning vomiting of yellow bile. Maddie, who is perfectly normal on all blood tests does this occasionally. Like others have said, its just the empty tummy syndrome, and a little biscuit or other food at bedtime works wonders.


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## Amy R. (Jul 1, 2007)

Hi Karen~~you know what? I wouldn't worry too much about Dugan. He seems to be thriving! 12 lbs! It's my sense that the ALT levels are variable for reasons we cannot always pinpoint. I would also totally discount the vomiting of that yellow stuff. Biscuit has always done that in the AM frequently, esp. if I don't feed him soon enough, and he is super healthy. I would watch it, but also put it in the back of your mind.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Sorry you have to worry about Dugan. He seems to be doing so well and thriving. Shelby used to throw up in the a.m. when she was younger. She doesn't do it so much anymore. In fact, I can't remember the last time. I hope you find out it is nothing serious.


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## hedygs (May 23, 2007)

Hugs to you and to Dugan. Try not to worry.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

:hug: Karen & Dugan :hug: Sending good thoughts your way!


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## Cheryl (Mar 17, 2007)

I feel like the Queen of "Liver Dogs." As others have said, I have studied this from all angles. My advice to you is two fold: 1.) Take it one step at a time. Let's see what the Bile Acids show (and no fair worrying before then) and 2.) Feel free to PM me. I have been through this before (and I totally understand the worry curve!).


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Karen- Sending Hugs. I went through something with Belle when she was younger- we did a full blood panel at her check up, then tested her and it was high, and we retested her a month later and she was fine. We did another full blood panel at her follow up check up and the only thing the vet said is dogs can eat strange things. I hope you go through the same thing I did- freaked out for a few weeks but then comforted with good results.

Hugs,
Amanda


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

Hoping all turns out well for Dugan and Casper. Sorry to hear this but good thoughts and well wishes are sent your way.


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

*Best Wishes*

Karen,

I am so sorry to hear of your little girl's high levels. My daughter has a Yorkie who will be 4 years old in 8 days. Her levels were astronomical, she was diagnosed with a shunt at 10 months of age. They performed surgery but since the shunts were internal they couldn't be fixed. The vets told my daughter at the time that they usually have a good outcome with diet control. She is doing wonderfully well just by going on a low protein diet. She is a sweetheart and a very healthy little girl. Please know that even if they would find a shunt that is external it can be redirected and if it is internal it can be controlled with diet. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or just need support.

Holly


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Karen, sending hugs to you and Dugan. :hug: I'm sure you are so worried, but I bet everything will turn out okay. Keep us posted
Gina


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

Karen I'm sending big hugs to you and Dugan. Try not to worry to much. My vet says that the vomiting can cause the liver enzymes to be high. I have a cat that we have to test every six months. He also said some animals just have high reads that are normal for them. Hang in there.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Karen, how did the test go today? Hope everything is well!


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

Karen, very worred...how dd everythng turn out????????????


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Hi everyone,
Dugan did fine. No results for a few days. I will let you all know as soon as I hear. He did throw up last night, but I think that is from eating poop. Poop is even more discusting when it come up a second time


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

Brady's mom said:


> Hi everyone,
> Poop is even more discusting when it come up a second time


Don't I know it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Karen just thinking of you and Dugan tonight and hoping the tests come out well! :hug:

Beverly


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Brady's mom said:


> Poop is even more discusting when it come up a second time


Been dere done dat! I hope your test results come out great!!


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## Posh's Mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Thinking of you!


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

Praying for good test results.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Looking forward to good results.


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

just checking to see if you had the results yet, hoping all will be good.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

Poor Dugan. Hope the test results are perfect!
Gina


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

No word yet. They said Thursday or Friday. I am just waiting. Thanks for checking in. I have changed some of his treats already trying to lower protein amounts. Dugan will eat anything, so he doesn't care if he now gets sweet potato treats instead of chicken. Brady on the other hand spit out one of the new treats I bought.


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Sending positive vibs for great results on Dugan's test. Hopefully, you will get them today. Waiting sometimes is the worse part.


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

I keep checking hopeing for some results today. Our thoughts are with you Karen.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Just checking in to see if there are any results, yet. 

Karen~ Continuing to keep you and Dugan in thoughts and prayers :hug:


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

Yea, me too, just checking


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Me three.


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

Me four :grouphug:


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Me five.


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

count me as six


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Lucky #7!

Ryan


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I hope you get some answers today, Karen. Can't wait to hear!


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Sorry guys, I was in Atlantic City for the night losing money and didn't have access to the computer. Here is the update. Dugan's bile acids came back at 1.5 while fasting. It should be between 1-10, so that is fine. After eating, it was at 37.5. It should be under 20. My vet said, usually with shunts it is over 100. She does feel something is going on though. She said we can do the ultrasound which may or may not show anything even if there is something there, or we can put him on flagyl for another week and then test the blood again and see if the ALT levels go down. She seemed to think perhaps it is some kind of infection he has been carrying since he has not thrown up or had diarriah since being on the flagyl. Any thougths??? I am thinking of waiting a few weeks and trying the blood work again. He acts fine and is very energetic. He is 12 pounds and eats like a pig.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Karen, I would wait a month and redo the bloodwork. But that's just me. Havanese tend to have elevated Bile Acids and 37.5 really isn't a worrisome number given the fact that he's doing well otherwise. Now if he DOES have any other symptoms, then I would think about going the Flagyl route as suggested. I would hold back on the ultrasound for now, as it will cost lots of $ and hair (for Dugan) and probably won't lead to any diagnosis anyway.


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## micki2much (Feb 8, 2007)

Maryam - I'm with you. It makes alot of sense! But again, that is what I would do


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Karen, whatever course you wish to take, wishing Dugan a successful treatment and great health! :hug:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Karen, I am glad you received some good news. I think Maryam gave you good advice. I waited a month the time with Belle and redid it and they were lower. The only thing the vet said to me is sometimes dogs eat stuff they shouldnt and that can cause numbers to be off!


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

Karen, I'm glad Dugan's bile acid numbers weren't highly elevated. Yes, waiting a bit and retesting seems like a good approach. But do what's best for you (as I know how bad worrying can be). No matter what you decide, we're all sending good thoughts to you and Dugan.


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## mikeb (Mar 11, 2009)

I know nothing about this but my thoughts are with you and Dugan.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

We have had two blood tests already. They were 2 months apart and the same numbers. But, maybe the meds will help. I am going to go the bloodtest route before putting a small fortune into an ultrasound for a puppy that acts healthy. If it comes back high again, I will do the ultrasound. He hasn't thrown up in a week (except for the time he ate poop and puked it back up, but that doesn't count:suspicious. He seems to be so healthy and happy!


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## Lunastar (Feb 9, 2009)

Oh Karen I'm glad you got some good news. So do I understand you have decided to give Dugan the flagyl and then retest? My thoughts and prayers are with you and Dugan.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Karen, a 37 after eating isn't an alarming number at all. Here, I was told that the max for normal was 50, not 20, but I guess it depends what readings the labs do. Ricky was at 99 one time, 98 a few months later so those were definitely worrisome results. I agree that you can wait for the ultrasound. Taking the flagyl may just do the trick to bring the ALT down a bit. He sounds pretty healthy! :biggrin1:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

This is very encouraging news Karen. Belly rubs to D & B.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

Karen, I agree with what Maryam said. From everything I've read and been told by a canine liver specialist, these are really not high numbers. The fact he is gaining weight, acting healthy and normal are all a good sign.
Carole
PLEASE don't sue me.....


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Just catching up on Dugan....

I thought of you tonight when something came on tv. This may be way out there and grasping at straws,but I did want to pass it on to you,just in case.

I was watching this show called "Dog Town" on NatGeo. A dog was on there(I missed the first part) but it was not acting quite right and would throw up,then seem ok and then a few days later throw up again etc.

It turns out that it had swallowed a toy and as it was passing through the intestional tract,it would get stuck causing the dog to throw up. Then it was ok for a few days,then back to throwing up etc. They removed it and it was just fine.

I thought of you and Dugan right away as I had remembered reading he gobbled up anything(maybe a toy or piece of one) and then would throw up and seem fine. I know this must just sound like I'm crazy,but could this be? Do you think this is possible? I don't know anything about what you are going through with levels etc.,but I did feel compelled to at least pass this on to you,in case you hadn't seen the show.

<-----Hoping everything is fine with Dugan:hug:


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Julie, thanks for passing that along. I will ask my vet what she thinks. He is pretty good about not grabbing things that aren't toys, food, or shoes, but who knows. In the yard, he will eat anything. I didn't get to watch dogtown last night. Every time I turned it on, the boys started going crazy at the dogs. I wanted to watch it, but they were having none of it.l


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Julie, GMTA!


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## Annie Clark (Nov 6, 2008)

Nala's BAT results were very similar. She is on Denosyl and herbs and I am going to have her retested in a few months. What does Fagyl do?

Annie


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

Flagyl is the same thing as metronidazole. It is an antibiotic, but also has anti-inflammatory effects on the bowels (can you tell I am taking this from the internet) Here is a link to some of the information on it. http://www.wedgewoodpharmacy.com/monographs/metronidazole.asp Since Dugan has had problems with vomitting and upset tummy, the vet gave him this to see if he has some type of underlying infection we have not been able to kick.

After looking up the Denosyl, I am wondering if Dugan should be taking that too.


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