# Oh no...my biggest FEAR...



## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi Everyone,

Me and my little Chester are back to the forums. It's been a while since my last post and many things have changed since then. Chester is almost 2 years old now and what we've learned in the past year is that his tentative/shy nature has now developed into a general fear/mistrust of anything/anyone new, particularly other dogs. My wife and I made a point to walk him at least twice a day with Saturday mornings spent at our local park where many dogs are let off leash before 9AM. He was always shy with other dogs, then we had an incident about a month ago where he met another dog and barked at him. The next thing we know, he was being chased by this dog, completely whining and yelping in fear (remember they're off leash), until he was finally attacked and pinned by the other dog. We finally got things under control but we feel that the damage was done. 

Like I said before, he's been fear barking at other dogs for some time now but it has definitely progressed since then. Now when we walk him and he sees another dog even across the street, he'll start breathing heavily, his attention locks onto the dog, and he'll start barking. The dog could be 40 ft away and he'll bark or breath heavily at the very least. When this happens, nothing can break his attention on the other dog. We've tried squeaker toys, "watch me", and treats, and the only thing that breaks his attention is either a tug on the leash in a different direction or just walking away completely. The odd thing is that when he's off leash at the park, he doesn't react the same way. He'll generally be more shy and avoiding. It's as if he freaks out more when he's leashed up.

We've already decided to seek out a trainer in our area but I'm posting here to see if any of you have ideas on how to even handle a situation of seeing other dogs on our walks. I hate tugging on his harness but unfortunately we don't have a random calm dog friend that we can use to help desensitize in a controlled environment a la It's Me or the Dog.

So...any ideas, words of comfort or complete lies to my face that will at least make me feel better about this situation?  From what we can tell at this point, I'm afraid that Chester will never be the social, happy, cheerful dog we hoped to have  I just hope that we can nip this bud and set him on a path towards confidence, not fear.

Thanks in advance!


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

:grouphug:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

These sort of things happen. It is best to get a trainer. Here is a great article about this stuff. http://pawsitivedawgs.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/leash-reactivity/ Do you have a trainer picked out. If you need help finding one , let me know.


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## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks, Dave. I found this site (http://apdt.com/petowners/ts/default.aspx) through the dogstardaily blog and found a trainer that's near me. According to this trainer's profile she seems to use positive training so I believe the she fits in that regard. Then again...what do I know? ha

I've also been reading the forum at positively.com and someone suggested that breaking the cycle of reaction by avoiding all dogs for about a week. Should that be our step one? Our mentality up until now was try to "expose" him to as many dogs and strangers as possible.

Oh and thanks for the group hug


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi Toto. I am sorry to hear this. Even the best socialized of Havanese are very gentle and can be negatively imprinted by a such a traumatic situation. I think it is great you are getting a trainer. A good trainer is so valuable in reversing the damage. Jasper was/and sometimes still is as you describe Chester. He would not go in our yard for a stretch once because he was chasing a rabbit and the silly dog ran into a tree and yelped and stunned himself. He does not chase rabbits anymore...he hides, but some how squirrels are free game. he also has mail and silver truck issues... He is 6 now and so much better. so it is not impossible. 

One thing a vet told us when he was about chester's age. was see if you can find a big old gentle dog to hang out with. Big old dogs are usually much calmer than little dogs and can go a long way with being fearful of other dogs. We saw this in action when introducing them to our pet sitters dogs. One of which is a very gentle german shepherd. the first time they met --Jasper just watched-- next time they sniffed-- many times later...Jasper chased Marley the GSD around our yard, an activity usually reserved for his brother Cash. 

I wish you luck. and please let us know how it is going.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

toto3d said:


> Thanks, Dave. I found this site (http://apdt.com/petowners/ts/default.aspx) through the dogstardaily blog and found a trainer that's near me. According to this trainer's profile she seems to use positive training so I believe the she fits in that regard. Then again...what do I know? ha
> 
> I've also been reading the forum at positively.com and someone suggested that breaking the cycle of reaction by avoiding all dogs for about a week. Should that be our step one? Our mentality up until now was try to "expose" him to as many dogs and strangers as possible.
> 
> Oh and thanks for the group hug


Yeah that would be advisable. This takes some time to reintroduce dogs slowly. The trainer will show you how this is done. Let us know how things are going.


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## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

Quick follow up question:

So my wife and I decided to take Chester to the park again, but this time later in the morning where we knew there would be less dogs, to see if we could keep him relatively calm when in sight of other dogs. But one question we were debating while on the way to the park was if we should let him off leash like we normally do where we know he is generally calmer, or keep him ON leash which may makes him tense up a bit more?

In the end we let him off leash and he actually did fairly well in the park. We kept our distance and really only got close to dogs that we knew he was comfortable with.

Another couple random notes:

- Since saturday mornings are our "park" days, we noticed this morning that he was a little more reluctant than normal to walk towards the park. He wasn't full on pulling back, but he was hanging back and walking slower than usual, occasionally pulling back. With encouragement he'd start walking again. And when we made a right turn away from the park, he was walking briskly next to us again.

- Leashing Chester up is another issue. While "most" dogs get excited when they hear the jingle of their leash which signifies a fun walk, Chester does not get excited at all. He avoids getting leashed up and it's a process to get him to "come" to us and get leashed. With his other issues, we're not chalking it up to his general fear of even going for walks. 

Seems like we have a bizarro dog lol Did we mention how he's a picky eater too? lol Boy...

Sorry this entry is kind of all over the place. I guess I'm using this site to vent a little bit...


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

one thing I have to add is DON'T 'get him to "come"' when trying to leash him!!
It's obvious he doesn't enjoy it, so GO GET HIM and put the leash on him, if you call him to come to something he doesn't enjoy, eventually, if not right away, he will STOP coming when you call him at all because in his mind "bad things happen" when he 'comes'. 

also, try not to rush him beyond what he can handle, slightest sign of fear or anything and stop what you are doing. do something he enjoys and treat him.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

see my response by PM. re. other trainer option. Good advice Tammy.


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## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

Hm, so even if we give him great praise and treats when he finally does "come" to be leashed, that's a bad idea?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

toto3d said:


> Hm, so even if we give him great praise and treats when he finally does "come" to be leashed, that's a bad idea?


If you then follow the treats with something unpleasant yes. They learn to"chain" the events.


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## gelbergirl (Jun 9, 2007)

toto3d said:


> - Leashing Chester up is another issue. While "most" dogs get excited when they hear the *jingle of their leash which signifies a fun walk*, Chester does not get excited at all. He avoids getting leashed up and it's a process to get him to "come" to us and get leashed. With his other issues, we're not chalking it up to his general fear of even going for walks.


Some times Henry hides under the bed. He never comes for this, would rather stay around the house close to his toys.

Chester is so very cute by the way.


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## Rene831 (Mar 25, 2012)

My Charly girl has a fear of frogs! Big ones, little tree frogs it doesn't matter. LOL! Other than that she is a happy outgoing Hav. that loves her walks. She backs up every time she knows we are leaving the house. I never call her to get ready to go. I go and get her and she sits perfectly still while I leash her up. Outdoors while off leash I have no problems getting her to come when she knows its time to have her leash placed back on. I think she knows we are all done and its time to go home. I'm glad to hear you are going with a trainer. Wishing you all the best.


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## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

TilliesMom said:


> one thing I have to add is DON'T 'get him to "come"' when trying to leash him!!
> It's obvious he doesn't enjoy it, so GO GET HIM and put the leash on him, if you call him to come to something he doesn't enjoy, eventually, if not right away, he will STOP coming when you call him at all because in his mind "bad things happen" when he 'comes'.
> 
> also, try not to rush him beyond what he can handle, slightest sign of fear or anything and stop what you are doing. do something he enjoys and treat him.


Hi Tammy,

And how do I "go get him" if he hates being chased? And if I manage to chase him and "get him", then follow up with leashing which he finds unpleasant, isn't that just another chain of events leading to more fear?

I"m literally spending my Sunday morning reading about how everything I was doing is wrong lol. I need a trainer to just tell me straight up....do this and don't do this, because the more I read the bigger my headache gets lol. Now I know why they say ignorance is bliss...

oh boy...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

toto3d said:


> Hm, so even if we give him great praise and treats when he finally does "come" to be leashed, that's a bad idea?


Yes, it is. If you want a reliable recall, ONLY call your dog if there are no negative cosequences for the dog in responding. Then if you need to call your dog in an EMERGENCY, he is much more likely to come.

It also sounds like you might be bribing or luring him to come for the food rather than rewarding him for a correct recall.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

toto3d said:


> Hi Tammy,
> 
> And how do I "go get him" if he hates being chased? And if I manage to chase him and "get him", then follow up with leashing which he finds unpleasant, isn't that just another chain of events leading to more fear?
> 
> ...


If you can't approach him in the house, you have bigger problems that need to be dealt with. You need to really be working on establishing a better relationship with your dog. In the mean time, when he is loose in the house AND YOU ARE AROUND TO MONITOR HIM, keep a short leash attached to his collar. Then you can gently step on the end of the leash if he starts to move away from you, and avoid the need to chase him.


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## toto3d (Nov 25, 2010)

OK...I think I got it. No more "luring" with treats to get him leashed. Instead I'll just grab him when he's near and take him to be leashed up. I may made it seem like he runs away in fear every time we try to pick him up. That's not quite the case. He'll usually just hop onto our couch and wait to be picked up. 

And once I have him leashed up, do I give him a reward or no? Since my instinct is to say "yes", I'm officially going to say "no" since I've been wrong about everything else thus far lol

FYI the dog in my profile pic is our old Maltese, Toto. The image below is of the complete nightmare terror that is Chester lol (sarcasm)


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It's FINE to give him treats after he's leashed up. Then it's a reward, not a lure!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

P.s. he looks like a doll!


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## Izzy-bella (Mar 26, 2011)

Thanks for asking this question...I have been doing the leash thing all wrong! Luck and better training methods to both of us. Aren't we lucky for all these smart people!

Chester is a sweetie pie, good haircut.


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## Rene831 (Mar 25, 2012)

krandall said:


> It's FINE to give him treats after he's leashed up. Then it's a reward, not a lure!


This is what I do at home followed by "lets go."


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