# Size of parents and pups



## andmmy (Apr 14, 2008)

Hi,

My family is in the search of a havanese puppy to join our family at the end of summer, and from reading through various posts there appears to be a great difference in the sizes of dogs that forum members have. Some seem to be around the 10lb range and some are almost double that at 19 - 20lbs. I am hoping that the dog that we end up getting will be on the lower range...easier to transport and just plain takes up less room. The parents of a litter I'm waiting for are around 14lbs. What are the chances that my new puppy will end up being around the same size as his/her parents? How big are your dog's parents and how much does your dog weigh? Any dogs out there ended up being very different from their parents's size?

Thanks,
Andmmy


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

The size of the parents is an indicator, but so is the size of the grandparents. Many long-time breeders believe that you get a much better picture by looking at the grandparents of the puppy. 

Many times gender helps to frame the size too (with males being larger), but not always.

If the breeding was an outcross (unrelated dogs), your guess is as good as anyones as to how the puppy will turn out.


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## andmmy (Apr 14, 2008)

I know what you mean about it's anybody's guess. I've heard where breeders gave an estimate of 9 - 10lbs and the dog ended up being 15lbs...almost 5lbs bigger than its sire and dam! That's a big difference from having a dog that you can just put in a bag and tote it with you everywhere vs being too big and heavy to be "portable". 

I'm sure we would love the dog no matter what size it ends up to be but it sure would be nice to have some sort of idea. 10lb dog vs a 20lb dog is a lot of dog difference. 

Andmmy


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

Winston is 15 pounds!!! I weighed him a couple days ago and :jaw:. I have to be honest and say I was bummed. His mom is 10 and his dad 13-14. He doesn't look bigger than his dad [maybe dad weighs more]. He looks like his dad in almost every way. The breeder was remarking recently at the uncanny resemblance and she did tell me when I got him that they would look alike. He is small and adorable but not as easy to carry with one arm as I expected.

Megan has a dog from same litter that favors the smaller mother, it's Jillee. She is closer to the 10-11 pound range. Our breeder also told her that she would favor the mother and be in that range most likely; I believe the mother [GiGi] is 10-11 pounds.

His grandad breeds smaller dogs though. LOL. But thanks to good helpers, I was also able to look up the lines to great great something grandfather who was also close in appearance and looked larger so I KNEW more than likely that my dog would be on the large side [13 pounds]. I seriously did NOT expect him to weigh so much though. I can't decide if he just needs to lose a couple pounds [kids feed him their food] or what but OUCH my arm hurts. He is officially off people food and we affectionately call him 'moose'. LOL. :biggrin1:

From my limited knowledge [I've done lots of research though] I would say that if both parents are 14 pounds you are more than likely going to have a larger dog. If that is not your preference for whatever reason, I would look elsewhere. BUT please please avoid breeders whose AIM is to be less than 8 pounds. There are too many health issues associated with this.

I do not see anything wrong with wanting a dog on the small side of the normal range and there are many REPUTABLE breeders that breed closer to 8-12 pounds. But obviously unless you buy an adult, you never know....odds are on your side if you've researched the line though and know general ideas of past litters, mom dad, grandparents.

Good luck.


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## andmmy (Apr 14, 2008)

In your extensive research have you found that the girls more resemble the moms and boys more resemble their dads in weight? The two examples you gave seems to hold that to be true. I've also heard that certain breeders have lines that breeds bigger havs and others smaller ones. I definitely know about staying away from breeders that have less than 8lb havaneses. It's so hard some times when you look at the these beautiful pups but know that they'll probably be bigger or smaller than what you would like.

Andmmy


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## andmmy (Apr 14, 2008)

Trish,

Btw, how old is Winston and how old was he when he reached his adult weight?

Andmmy


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## TnTWalter (May 9, 2007)

I'm hoping you were tongue and cheek about the 'extensive research'. LOL.

Winston is 17 months old.

The breeders on here are very knowledgeable.

I just think that if parents are 14 pounds my best guess is that your pup will be as big or bigger so since you said you want a SMALLER havanese, probably not going to happen.

When I went the my breeder's home, I was able to see mom, dad, grandpa and many full grown havanese so I had a general idea that Winston would be larger. And at the time that's what I wanted [and still do until I try to carry him...3 kids who would never put him down otherwise...LOL]. I just didn't expect him to be so heavy. LOL. So I just want to prepare you.


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## Jennifer Clevenger (Jun 26, 2008)

I have Winston's sister who is his littermate. She is a little overweight because of being a food hound. I would guess her to be 14-15 pounds but her ideal weight for her frame should be 12-13 pounds. 
Their father is from the Netherlands where they seem to breed bigger dogs. He is on the bigger side but is not coarse. Some dogs have legs like twobyfours and are coarse.
I would say that if you are looking for a smaller dog, you will not get it with the breeding you are talking about. Kimberly is right with saying it depends what is in the lines. Small can come out of bigger parents. If you want a smaller dog then it should weigh between two-three pounds at eight weeks. That might be a good clue to what you end up with.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Remember size isn't everything and I caution you specifically looking for small size. I also am not sure havanese are good tote dogs to be honest  I have Dora who is 11lbs and even if I wanted to carry 11lbs around, she has different ideas on how to get around. She has never liked to be in the bag where as my maltese loves it. I will say after this recent trip, strollers are great too. I throw all 3 of mine into one and it is perfect for lunch trips, ferry rides, getting around busy areas, etc.


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## andmmy (Apr 14, 2008)

Amanda,

I didn't really mean it about being able to put it in a tote, LOL. I just meant it as a frame of reference. I am certainly not one to "tote" a dog though a lot of people in NYC have all kinds of bags for their dogs. I have friends who have dogs that are 17lbs and up and when they are in my apartment they just seem soooo big that it made me think that perhaps the more compact and light dog will be better suited for my family. I still want a dog that's robust and doesn't need to be handled with kid gloves like some other small breeds but I just wanted to make sure (as if one can do that) to get a dog that comes from parents that are on the smaller side, thus better odds that he'll be small too.

Andmmy


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

I think the breeder can usually tell how big the puppy is going to be. My breeder told me that my puppy will be at least 11-12 pounds, bigger than his parents because he just has that frame. I told her I was looking for a smaller size and she pointed me to another one in the litter. But, in the end, size just didn't matter  

Perhaps your breeder can give you an educated guess since she has seen how big the puppies from past litter has grown? Good luck with your search! I know you just want to take one home when you see them, but keep in mind that this is a LOOOOOONG commitment. The perfect Havanese for you is worth waiting for. eace:


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Andmmy, if it makes you feel better, I live in NYC in a one bedroom apartment and Kubrick (who is around 14.75lbs) fits right into the apartment. I don't think he is too big at all. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't want him any smaller. I can carry him just fine in my arms if I have to and although I can't carry him in a shoulder bag, he fits just fine in my backpack carrier and it's much easier to transport him like that. And, I'm really not saying this in a mean way at all, I wouldn't buy a dog breed that could just possibly get bigger if it was something I didn't really want. Have you looked at smaller breeds you might like? My breeder told me that Kubrick shouldn't get much above 14lbs, and he is still in that range but closer to 15lbs now (he's done growing, though). She was right on as in he didn't go up to 20lbs or something but weight isn't written in stone and you have to be mindful of that. Plus, I seriously doubt that if your dog got above 15lbs that you suddenly wouldn't love it anymore and if you think that you would then I seriously caution you to look at another breed.

I really am not saying this to be mean, just my honest opinion.


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## andmmy (Apr 14, 2008)

Joyce...Just looked through Momo's pictures in your Picasa album and he's just so cute. Is that the Sing Dao newspaper on the floor?  Is Momo paper trained or pee pad trained? Do you think there's a difference in either one?

Andmmy


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## andmmy (Apr 14, 2008)

Lina...no offense taken at all!!! A Havanese is definitely what we want because of their temperament, low to non shedding factor, and of course just the cuteness factor alone would send anyone over the edge. Once we get the dog we would love it no matter how big it got. It's just that there seems to be a pretty big difference between a dog that's 10lbs and one that's 20lbs that we would much prefer the lower end of the range rather than the upper end. Even if OUR dog did end up being 20lbs that would be OK to since we would've loved it from when it was a pup. There's one Havanese in my building and she is around 22lbs! The owner got her from a petshop and didn't know anything about the parents. I'm working with a breeder now where her pups should be in the 11 - 14lb range. Hopefully we can have a NYC playdat come Fall.

I really appreciate all the input that this forum provides as the more informed we are the better.

Thanks,
Andmmy


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

Andmmy,

He is trained to go on Sign Dao and other chinese newspaper, though he has been known to go on Korean and American newspaper too. :biggrin1:

I think pee pads and newspaper are similar. Momo was already trained on newspaper when I got him, which works out for me since I have a lot of newspaper at home. Newspaper is free and recyclable. However, they don't protect your floor as well as pee pads. That's why I got the Wizdog (also to keep Momo from stepping on his pee). 

One of Momo's littermates was actually bought by a family in NYC. They came down to the Baltimore area to look at the puppy (I met them briefly there). If you have having issues finding a breeder, perhaps you can look in the DC metro area?


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## andmmy (Apr 14, 2008)

> He is trained to go on Sign Dao and other chinese newspaper, though he has been known to go on Korean and American newspaper too.


Your Momo is certainly a multi-cultural dog.:biggrin1: I'll have to look into this Wizdog you mentioned. This will be our first dog and we have a lot of shopping to do.

I'm already working with a breeder in the area so I'm pretty set. All these months of research has me a little burnt out and I kind of just want it to be done already.

Andmmy


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## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

Our Bella is about 7 lbs. and her parents were both under 10. All of the puppies in the litter were small. I don't know about the grandparents, though.


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## swtxsweetie (May 16, 2008)

Andmmy,

Just FYI, a few people here have mentioned that their babies don't like Wizdog and won't use it.

Also, if you are looking for toys and such Amazon has good deals. Send me a message if you want more details. I love shopping. I just got my shipment from Amazon today. About 9 toys for $30. :biggrin1:


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

My Vinny was "supposed" to be 15 lbs and he is 20. Little Lulu was supposed to be 9.5 and she is 7. Go figure.
Carole


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## Miss Kaya (May 28, 2008)

RE: Ama0722

Do you use the stroller when going into stores etc.? Kaya hates being left behind at home or in the car when I need to run out. Maybe, a stroller will help me not feel so bad and give me a little needed break from time to time. She is very demanding!:frusty:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Angie- this week, I have used it like crazy on vacation. I just use it when I really can't have them out- too many people walking around and don't want them stepped on, a place where dogs probably shouldnt be-outdoor cafes, etc. Mine are pretty patient with me leaving.


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