# Liver Shunts in Hav's ?



## bearydiva (Jul 3, 2013)

Hi, I'm new here and would like to know if Liver Shunt Disease runs in 
Hav's?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

It's not common in well bred, normal sized Havs, but it is seen occasionally. It is more common in under sized dogs/puppies.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Just don't go for a tiny havanese. I have 3 hav's. My little one, 7 lbs, had a liver shunt. Just go to a good breeder and don't pick the runt...


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## bearydiva (Jul 3, 2013)

*Average Size in Hav's*

Because I'm new here and don't have a Hav yet .....
what is considered average size / weight for say an 8 -10 week old Hav puppy?

What size and weight is considered average for an adult Hav?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

bearydiva said:


> Because I'm new here and don't have a Hav yet .....
> what is considered average size / weight for say an 8 -10 week old Hav puppy?
> 
> What size and weight is considered average for an adult Hav?


I'd be shooting for parents in the 10-12 lb size range. I'm not sure on puppy sizes at that age... Kodi was 11 weeks when I brought him home, and he was a BIG puppy, at 6 lbs. (he grew into a big Hav... 16.5 lbs enen though his parents were both under 12 lbs!:laugh I THINK I've heard a lot of people mention that their pups are in the 3-4 lb range when they bring them home. Remember that they grow FAST at that age. I also think the most important thing is not to pick a puppy who is significantly smaller than his litter mates. It's not the size SPECIFICALLY that is a problem... It's that a liver shunt can keep them from growing well. So if there is a significant size difference in a single pup in a litter, it COULD be a sign of a problem.

Another way to to check for liver function is a bile acid test, which many breeders run routinely. That does NOT mean for sure that they don't have a liver shunt, but makes it much less likely. Very occasionally, a puppy will develop normally, and only show symptioms of a liver shunt in late puppyhood. That's pretty uncommon, though.

There is always a chance of something going wrong with any living animal, no matter how carefully bred and raised. The best way to increase your odds of a healthy puppy is to buy from a reputable breeder who does all proper health testing. Honestly, there are genetic problems that are much more common in Havs than liver shunts. I wouldn't have that as a major concern if you are getting your pup from a good breeder.


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## bearydiva (Jul 3, 2013)

*Liver Shunts*

Thanks for the replies. The reason for my concern is that I have a St. Poodle who was dx at age 4yr 9mo with liver disease / heavy copper deposits. She is 10 yrs old and will be 11 come December 1st. I just cannot do another dog with liver disease..... heavy sighs.:faint:

I've had many dogs in my lifetime and I do understand that every breed has some problems. Even purchasing from a good breeder doesn't always work ... as in my case with the St. Poodle. Diva's health has begun to slip a bit in the past 6 months or so. I have been blessed though - the vets said she most likely would only live 4-5 months after the dx. Diva is on many supplements and eats a home cooked diet to support her liver function thanks to support and help from a yahoo canine liver list.

The next dog I get needs to be smaller and easier for me to manage so that's why I'm looking at the Havanese Breed. I'm here to learn all I can about this breed and to see if it will be well suited to my lifestyle. I'm also considering the Bolognese, and possibly the Lowhen Breeds as well.


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## sandypaws (Aug 8, 2012)

The Bolognese, Lowchen, Bichon and Havanese are all members of the same family of dogs and are very similar in size, temperament and personality. Good luck in your search for the right breed for you.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

bearydiva said:


> Thanks for the replies. The reason for my concern is that I have a St. Poodle who was dx at age 4yr 9mo with liver disease / heavy copper deposits. She is 10 yrs old and will be 11 come December 1st. I just cannot do another dog with liver disease..... heavy sighs.:faint:
> 
> I've had many dogs in my lifetime and I do understand that every breed has some problems. Even purchasing from a good breeder doesn't always work ... as in my case with the St. Poodle. Diva's health has begun to slip a bit in the past 6 months or so. I have been blessed though - the vets said she most likely would only live 4-5 months after the dx. Diva is on many supplements and eats a home cooked diet to support her liver function thanks to support and help from a yahoo canine liver list.
> 
> The next dog I get needs to be smaller and easier for me to manage so that's why I'm looking at the Havanese Breed. I'm here to learn all I can about this breed and to see if it will be well suited to my lifestyle. I'm also considering the Bolognese, and possibly the Lowhen Breeds as well.


Again, liver shunts aren't "common" in Havanese. They DO happen from time to time in many breeds, and especially in those individuals who are undersize for the breed.

That said, MANY liver shunts are totally correctable. After surgery, the dog can go on to live an entirely normal, healthy life.


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## ZiggyZ (Aug 11, 2016)

I have a 1 year old Havanese. My breeder when we got her told us to put her on a strict high protein diet. But my vet recommended we decrease how much pure protein she is getting and now is on half kibble and half chicken. She's had two bile lasses test and the first one she we ok, but this last one the pre was ok, but the post elevated at 74. They want us to go in a do a liver ultra sound scan. 

I'm worried that 1- the breeder was right and we should only feeding her protein. But my vet, who is amazing and I went to with my labrador is right and now she really has liver disease. 

I'm super worried. She's only a year, 10lbs. She has good solid poops and high energy. But I've never had a havanese before and I didn't know if anyone else here has experience with this.

thanks-

Julie -AKA Ziggy's mom.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

ZiggyZ said:


> But my vet, who is amazing and I went to with my labrador is right and now she really has liver disease.


I keep rereading that sentence and don't understand it.

I don't have any information to share, but I wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Oh gosh. I'm going to have to read up on liver shunts. I don't even know what one is but Willow is only 7-1/2 lbs which I know is small for a hav. I hate to worry but it's better to at least be knowledgeable.


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## Cmward (Jun 28, 2017)

ZiggyZ said:


> I have a 1 year old Havanese. My breeder when we got her told us to put her on a strict high protein diet. But my vet recommended we decrease how much pure protein she is getting and now is on half kibble and half chicken. She's had two bile lasses test and the first one she we ok, but this last one the pre was ok, but the post elevated at 74. They want us to go in a do a liver ultra sound scan.
> 
> I'm worried that 1- the breeder was right and we should only feeding her protein. But my vet, who is amazing and I went to with my labrador is right and now she really has liver disease.
> 
> ...


Did your breeder give you a reason for the strict high protein diet? I've had breeders share recommendations on what types of food they prefer but none ever suggested a "strict" anything diet. A complete and balanced diet is what I've always been told I should aim for, how you get there can vary quite a bit.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

A high protein diet will not cause a liver shunt. OTOH, they do usually try to keep the protein levels lower for a dog that has liver problems, including a shunt.

Hope your pup is OK.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

more on shunts https://healthypets.mercola.com/sit...1/02/01/liver-shunts-disease-in-pet-dogs.aspx


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