# Emergency Down, Stay, or Sit?



## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Has anyone taught this? Was wondering what word to use for an emergency downs?


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Linda a lot of people have an emergency word for thier dogs to come but sometime you do not want them running to you so an emergency sit or down is great to learn.

My boys are trained when my arm goes straight up in the air that means down, I do not work this as much as I should but this is a good reminder to start working on it again. 

I like the arm up in the air because they should be able to see this no matter how far they are from me.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Great Suggestion with the arm! The up position of the arm... could mean stop what you are doing and stay/wait/don't move until I say so.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I have the issue where Belle can be stubborn about come or she gets within 3 feet of you but doesnt want to stop doing what she is doing. So her thing is drop. No matter what she is doing she is good about this. I actually taught it for agility when she we would get so hyper and want to keep going, she didn't want to come to me and would think chasing was a game. So we just did fast drops and Belle always gets a cookie and then I play tug with her. Always extremely positive and it is a lot fun for her. Sometimes she gives me that look like you better bring out the big rewards but she listens and at least puts her front down. But you could always use a different word or position or anything and just remember always always positive. Cause in an emergency situation you don't want your dog to hesitate whether it is worth giving up what they are doing.


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## kelrobin (Jan 21, 2008)

When I run breakneck towards Jackson yelling his name, he drops down and rolls over submissively. Always has, thank goodness. I do an index finger pointing up signal with sit, but it probably wouldn't work far away. I like the arm up in the air idea . . . may have to try that with the running and keep trying it.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I have not taught the "Drop"....What about "Drop Down" not to get it mixed up with "Drop it" which I do not use often...often use "Leave it" on walks. And if Dexter has something in his mouth and I want it, I will say "Trade" and he drops whatever is in his mouth and he knows he will get a treat. 

So.....I guess, I could use either "Drop" or "Drop Down" with an arm extended up. 

What about tone of voice? Playful or Serious and Loud?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Linda- you can use any word or signal- you could call it watermelon if you wanted, the dog doesn't care! I recommend you use something you don't use often. Dogs tend to go more by motion and circumstance than words. But what are the chances they are looking at you during an emergency- like in your case of the broken collar?? So I usually train everything with a word for real life training. For most of my obedience training I use hand signals- I do the common arm in the air pulling it down for the drop on recall as well. This is from how it is taught in obedience is to push down on the leash to train the dog a drop.

Isabelle's word is just down and she does it pretty good but we first practiced it for obedience and it was a game where eventually she only got the treat when it was fast. Dash is pretty fast with it too. Dora can be lazy and unsure of herself. Her natural reaction is to come to me so this is something she isn't very good at. As to your tone of voice, mine with Belle is stern cause that is what she personally reacts to the best. With Dora or Dash, I wouldn't do a stern voice as that as they would be upset I was mad with them and likely come to me. Each dog is different so you have to play around but turn it into a game and training is way more fun for both of you.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Another question.....Do you treat to learn this command? If so, I would think the treat would phase out because if I am in an emergency situation and Dexter thinks he is going to get a treat....I would be afraid he would come running.....but, I guess, it is all in the training....and practice makes perfect. 

Ok....What tone of voice?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Linda- I treat for everything and phase out. But in an emergency situation, you could always pretend. Also for somethings I always treat (sometimes it isn't food but a favorite game, toy, etc.) This way the dog always choses you over anything else. Lots of things outside are very self rewarding and sometimes you have to use whatever you can 

Voice- depends on the dog. Dora and Dash I would be happy voice and Belle I would be stern (this is for her down not for come for her- I believe come should always be positive). They just have different personalities just like people. 

You just have to experiment with what Dexter does the best with.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

hi Linda , keep it simple still use down as your vocal cue with a raised arm signal as well. Walk up to him take him by the collar and treat. Slowly increase the distances . Practice in a safe place . Interrupt his play frequently by practicing the emergency down. It goes hand in hand with a solid recall . Make sure to use your hand signals all the time when doing a regular down. Then practice with more and more distractions. Good question though. This can be a true life saver. And Amanda is right ,sometimes the best reward is simply a "go play"


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Dexter will do a down in the house with some back talk if you know what I mean. Sits are easier. I use down a lot and it usually is in a stern voice, because Dexter will look at me, as if to say..."I don't want to, but I will....grunting and groaning. 

Should I use the "Down" as an emergency outside or "Drop?" All opinions are very important because, I want to see what will work best for Dexter.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Linda, get him doing simple downs more reliable. If they are not reliable under calm conditions, they won't be from a distance when there are more distractions etc. Reward only occasionally and reward bigger for more difficult downs. Never fade out the rewards too much,or that will result in what is called extinction, keep him guessing as to when he will be rewarded. One reason the down command is used over the sit is that ,let say you see a dog running at a distance right towards your dog. You do not want to call your dog to come, (,especially a small dog like the Havanese)because that can trigger the oncoming dog into predatory mode. The down is used because it is a submissive posture ,that is hopefully recognized by a threatening dog.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

So in other words, do the down command until you have no problems.

Then slowly phase in the Emergency Down with hand held high, but do not do the command but only 2-3 week. 

Dexter will still do the down command in the house....so..... what's the difference in the commands when I am in the house? With the hand and going to him? Is that the diffrence?

I will have to train the emergency down in the house first.

Opinions please?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Linda- I don't think there is going to be a difference for Dexter other than the environment. I even use the same word for Belle. She doesn't have an emergency word for this as it is the same thing she needs to do. I could call it something different but she didn't need it. With all training you should start at home in a secure place where Dexter gives you total attention then add in the distractions -dropping a toy while he is doing it, etc. My old obedience instructor used to drive remote controlled cars around the dogs during a down  Eventually practice it at strange places- pet stores like petco are great to do it. Walking near a school, etc. Then you also want to increase the space between the two of you slowly. And then try it while the dog is in motion. This can be a bit harder. This is usually the same approach obedience folks take on the drop on recall.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I will be practicing a few times today with the "Down" in a stern voice with hand held high and walk toward Dexter....but, I will have to say "Stay" or Dexter will come running at times. 

The time that Dexter took off after the cat for 3 longggggggggggggggggggggggggggg seconds seemed like an eternity! He was out of sight, so the hand signal would not of help me.

Training day for me, just for a few minutes this morning (what's left of it) and few minutes this afternoon. 

An important lesson for all of our Havs to learn!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

good advice Amanda. Linda don't forget when practicing your down the down means stay down until I release you. You have to have a release cue. It can be a simple " go play " with a waving motion with your arm. You have to release your dog or it's no good. But get in the habit of using your arm up for ALL downs. Use hand signals for all commands. Later in life they might become deaf and then they will be handy.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Hey, Amanda, how about a demonstration video of you and Dash/Belle/Dora? That would be interesting to see. 

I only have one obedience option here, and I'm not too impressed with it.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Sheri- I will try to do that when it stops raining and I can get Jim to video tape me. I really believe in the real world this one is best with a voice rather than hand but why not train with both just make sure you switch it up. Here is Isabelle working on the drop on recall for obedience last year. This isn't for emergency training, etc. but I was training for precision which is required in obedience (she still has a long way to go but this is when it started clicking in her head!) She probably does a moving drop the best out of my dogs currently. Dash will not be learning this until he has his novice obedience title but he does have a fast down.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks! I love watching dogs do obedience! My Keeshond (25 years ago, gasp!) got his CD by the time he was 1 year old...I loved doing it! But, I learned by a harsher method that I won't do anymore, (he was my first dog ever.) I'd love to do obedience again with Tucker, but am not impressed with the only local person. Some of her stuff doesn't make sense to me, and she will not tolerate variations on her own methods. Once I'm done with school and studying I will try to find a class elsewhere.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Sheri- that is awesome, I have seen some great working Keeshonds. Dora got her CD young as well but I was at an all breed club where I had amazing training people and free obedience classes- boy do I miss that. I have Dash doing a lot of stuff so he will probably be a bit older but we are having fun. He tends to get vocal when he is excited and having fun so that is something. Methods are always changing. Here, I have an instructor that isn't that good but classes are cheap and basically I go there for distraction training with Dash. You may really want to try rally first as well. Unlimited talking and hand signals- world of difference for you and the dog!

Belle is far from going into open, we really havent been doing hardly any training as she can be the world's most stubborn dog and meanwhile I have Dash barking at me wanting to work. But maybe eventually


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks for the idea about Rally, Amanda. I'm not sure what that is, so will look into it. It sound like agility?....but, with signals allowed?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Sheri- it is suppose to be a precusor for obedience or a cross between obedience and agility. Here is Dash in advanced rally (hence no leash) on Saturday. You can see a few times he needed a second hand signal (i never taught him the advance signs... I didnt think we would move up this fast!). There are some people who talk to their dogs the entire time they are in the ring. It is all obedience signs (generally things you use in obedience at different levels) and you perform each station. Judging is only from the knee up so you can give unlimited hand signals, voice, etc. Tons of people LOVE rally!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

It looks like Rally requires enough training that you might as well just be in obedience going for your CD....?

By the way, how did Dash do there? Was that a passing score? What do you get, if you pass? Is there some type of recognition for it?

I think the only place on the island for Rally is the same as the obedience...but, I'll be looking for it.

Love the videos!!!


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Sheri- well the difference is you can talk to your dog the entire time and it isn't about as much precision, there is leeway. I could tell Dash to front 5 times if he was distracted (in the obedience ring the second time you have NQ'ed). In that run Dash tied for first place with a 99. He had a crooked sit (meaning it is more than 45 degrees off angle) when he was long the gate going to the back of the ring- he has never done that obstacle before but crooked sits have kept us from our perfect score every time now (but precision means I train that out and something else comes up <BG>). A lot of old school obedience people don't like rally (i have found quite a few who mess it by not knowing the signs!) but a lot of non obedience people love it. Rally has more entrants especially with people who don't have typical obedience dogs.

Oh as to prizes- it is just liked obedience- usually a ribbon (sometimes a rosette- my favorite!) and depending on the club a toy, a dog item, a leash, etc. 3 legs and you get a title behind the dogs name and it has 3 levels like obedience.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Sheri said:


> Hey, Amanda, how about a demonstration video of you and Dash/Belle/Dora? That would be interesting to see.


Okay- I took and did a little video with each of them and what level they are at. I am probably skipping a lot of steps. First I would teach sit and down. Then down without a sit. Then I do a moving down as we are walking which I am doing in the video with each of them. Then I put them in a sit and from farther away do the down signal then, I add the moving and the far away together. I am not doing this with Dash at all until he has his CD cause I went back and forth with Belle and she got slow in the ring!

Dash did very well for his training thus far. Dash does this the best even though it is new to him. He just does everything with tons of enthusiasm it is his personality and he loves to work and play.

Dora is a bit more slow with everything but also her personality. I would probably not use a drop command with Dora in an emergency situation. She is slow to respond and when in doubt she always wants to come to me.

Belle does the best for now. We haven't worked on this in a long time and she does the best outside but even does fine in the backyard. You can see Belle is part herding dog where she never runs in a straight line.

Oh then I included why I work with them separately. They are each other's worst distractions when training :brick: But it gives you an idea what I do with them for downs and training. Each of my pups is different so the training has to be as well!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

They're great Amanda. It helps to have a good teacher. Good going.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Aw, Amanda, that was a good video. What hand signals are you doing for sit, down, and is there one for come?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Sheri- doh, I should have done that too. Well, remember I didn't start off in formal obedience so mine are slightly different  But they work but then again, dog's dont care what the word or the hand signal is.

Sit-Palm up and lift arm. I actually do this at 5:18 cause they were having trouble going from a down to a sit (this always works best with a hand signal than the word... all 3 of their little brains don't do this one with a word)

Down-palm down and push arm down

Come- (I try not to use a signal for this one) as I prefer it to be one word only but I have trained in a motion of taking my right hand across my body into it (think the motion of placing your hand on on your heart).


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Okay, your sit and down are pretty much what I do, except that for down, as my hand goes down I point with my forefinger. I haven't used one at all for come, though. I guess if you go on to UDT and such you could add one then?

I didn't know if my signals would be "allowed" or if there were only certain moves that were "legal", now. I know for a CD you aren't allowed any voice cues....what about hand signals? Can't remember, and it may have changed in the last 25 years...:biggrin1:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Sheri- nope you could use any signals you want. Well you are only allowed one signal with most exercises and it can be voice or hand (not both). So technically you could do your entire Novice run with no hand signals at all and all voice. When you get up to UD there is the portion with only hand signals are allowed. I haven't gotten there and am quite a few years off  I just think with novice and my own dogs, I trust them more with voice cues than hand cues with all the distractions in the ring and outside and my own nerves on trial day.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Amanda, that's funny that your sit signal is the same as my "stand" signal.  Sit for me is to point with the index finger. Down is the same as yours (palm down in a downward motion). I use touch as well, but not for stand like you do. Your three are so good! Kubrick does okay with spoken but he's much much better with hand signals. Hitchcock is still learning (he's only 5 months old on Saturday) and is way too overeager... he can't hold a sit or down for more than five seconds (too excited), so that's what we're working on right now.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Lina- Exactly! See the hand signals don't matter to the dog if you are consistent. The pointing of the index fingers is Isabelle's bang signal. I also sometimes change hand signals which can confuse them for a bit. For in obedience and rally there is a moving stand so Dash is walking in heel position and I need to stop him in a stand immediately so my stand is also my stay. He first read it as touch which was okay but I just added the word stay. So now he reads it to stay and wait for further instruction which is perfect. But we are moving and he is on my side. Dogs are so aware of body language that a finger or foot in a different spot they read without any instruction from you. 

Yep, don't expect much at a young age with stays. I always work stays as setting my dog up to win. Cause if they break them all the time, you are going to have a lot longer training them- whether for at home or obedience or agility. So if he has a 5 second stay -release him at 4 seconds rather than trying for 10 and correcting him several times. I worked with stays for Dasher like crazy when I first got him cause they can haunt you in obedience (Isabelle cost me a lot of money and my patients in this area!) and I just placed Dash between the girls who were good at them so now they trained him for me  Also great for the girls to release Dash but not them- big distractions.

Dash is also way better with words than my girls but they are all very different in personality. Not sure if that is just a sign that he listens more but he does (men in humans don't have this quality btw!). If I put my hand out straight, I can give him 3 different words that he knows- kiss, five, and touch and he will do which one you asked with the same hand signal. Now Belle reads body way more and is way more stubborn, I couldn't get away with that with her!


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