# Playing or Killing Each Other?



## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Just wondering what is normal in a multi-dog house. Dusty and Indie have always played "nicely" together. Dusty can be very growly during play. She is more intense and definitely not on the submissive side. Indie is very laid back and submissive. The two of them play all the time. It never has seemed like any more than play to me. Since Jackson came along, the play has gotten much more intense. Dusty and Indie do a lot of barking. Dusty and Jackson can really get into it. It just seems really rough, even though no one is getting hurt. They make lots of snarly noises and are really intense in what is going on, and it seems to be increasing at the moment. It seems evenly matched, not like anyone is getting picked on. Indie just eggs everyone on by barking. She gets involved too, but if the roughness gets directed at her too much (by Jackson) she retreats. Is this just play? Are they eventually going to spill blood? Are they determining place? Will it calm down eventually? What's the best way to react? I've been sending them outside when they get too rowdy, and that usually stops it until they come in again. Sometimes they go at it outside too though. When they aren't "playing" everything is fine. 

I'd really appreciate hearing from those of you with more multi-dog experience than I have!
I remember someone else answering a similar question a while back but I couldn't find the thread.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

It sounds perfectly normal. If one should happen to get nipped too hard or something, they will "yipe" loudly and the action should stop immediately. There is only trouble if the "attacker" doesn't IMMEDIATELY stop.

People are always surprised at how "rough" the puppies play. Sometimes they sound like they are trying to kill each other. Look at my photo in the Gallery of Blanchi and Fifth with their mouths open. They sound vicious but absolutely love each other.

Some play harder that others. Those that don't get into it can ignore it and it will go away. Your pack sounds pretty balanced.

Imme, 9, and Twinkle, 12, still like to play rough.


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I definitely agree with Tom on this one based on what I've seen between Kubrick and Hitchcock. Kubrick sounds like he's out to kill Hitch! But the second Hitch yips (this has happened 3 times, I think), Kubrick stops and licks his ear or his nose as if to say sorry and they stop playing for 10-20 seconds before starting again. I have heard many times (and go by this myself) that if one dog is continuously running away and NOT initiating play at all then it's too much play for that one dog - but don't mistake this for running away TO initiate play, which Hitch does do as well. I think you can usually tell if one dog is having fun and the other is just getting pounded.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Tom is right , quite often it looks worse than what it is. They usually settle things on their own. If no one has been hurt so far they probably have learned bite inhibition and how to read one another's calming signals. If things do get carried away ,it never hurts to interrupt, give a break and then let them go and play again as their reward. The only time there becomes a problem is when one has not been socialized as a pup and learned bite inhibition and has become a bully. Never leave your dog playing with a strange dog without monitoring them.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Joelle they sound like happy kids to me. You should see some of the pictures of my standard poodle playing with the havs. You see these huge teeth and think someone is getting nailed but nobody gets rough or hurt. 
The new kid in the house had to watch to see what her play was like after seeing those teeth but uses her for a trampoline now...and then the play is ON with all of them.


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang (May 21, 2007)

It sounds like your pack is having a fun time together, just that Jackson's energy has added a bit more 'umph'.

Our dogs can sound like dinosaurs fighting when they get really rowdy and worked up during play, but they're definitely having fun. To me the sounds of a challenge or the start of a fight are noticeably different from that of rough play.

Things will probably settle down as they grow older.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2006)

Joelle,

Sound perfectly normal to me.  When Bugsy and Romeo rough house, they really rough house and to an untrained eye it seems awful. It looks like Romeo is wiping the floor with Bugsy, puts his entire head in his mouth and Bugsy is permanently attached to Romeo's ear. But, it's all in good fun and Romeo never closes his mouth on Bugsy. Meanwhile Brandy tries to grab onto any other available Bugsy part and barks like crazy. I really do have the best neighbors. :biggrin1:


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Julia, I think we need a video of this!


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Thanks guys!
This is more intense than what Dusty and Indie do just the two of them. Jackson is definitely bigger and more rambunctious. I think Indie has yipped a couple of times. I'll have to watch and see if Jackson backs off right away. I think he has. Indie runs to her crate if things get to crazy for her. It's Jackson and Dusty that really get going, and they really do go at it. I think Dusty is instigating a lot of it. To me it seems closer to fighting, but still no one is getting hurt. I think I'm just going to have to watch and see where this goes. Today it has seemed a little calmer than yesterday. 
Jackson is a nice fella and overall things are going great with him. I'm just not sure about some of this dog pack stuff!


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## mintchip (Apr 19, 2007)

juliav said:


> Joelle,
> 
> Sound perfectly normal to me.  When Bugsy and Romeo rough house, they really rough house and to an untrained eye it seems awful. It looks like Romeo is wiping the floor with Bugsy, puts his entire head in his mouth and Bugsy is permanently attached to Romeo's ear. But, it's all in good fun and Romeo never closes his mouth on Bugsy. Meanwhile Brandy tries to grab onto any other available Bugsy part and barks like crazy. I really do have the best neighbors. :biggrin1:


Romeo and Brandy are toooo cute with Bugsy. We need more hoto:hoto:


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

Having 2 dogs that fight, I think your dogs sound fine. You will know it when things are going wrong. When Bella and Scudder fight, it is awful. Fangs come out!


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Linda,
Do Bella and Scudder actually hurt each other? How do you tell what is play and what has gone too far? I feel like what I am seeing is right on the edge. Maybe not. Maybe it's all just good fun and I just need to relax! So far it's no problem to walk over and tell them to quit or send them outside, but a couple of times they haven't seemed as willing to listen.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

In my house, it does sound like a "dog fight". Neither one of them has ever gotten hurt. I see them pull each other by the ears, grab throats, but they keep going back for more. When the fun stops, Kodi is usually the one who will bark at Shelby for more. It sounds awful, all the snorting and sneezing, and Shelby has this high pitched bark you would think she was going to tear Kodi apart. But they are just playing.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Joelle,
Can you have your breeder friend listen over the phone, or better yet, come over to watch? (Of course, then the pups wouldn't want to "fight"...) I can imagine your concern. You probably wonder if the foster is trying to usurp Dustie's place, make her feel bad? I think that's what I'd worry about...Hope you get some real answers soon! 

Or, your foster-group might be able to visit and advise? I'll be watching to see what you learn...I think this could be beneficial for the future. (Waaay in the future,  )


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

DAJsMom said:


> Linda,
> Do Bella and Scudder actually hurt each other? How do you tell what is play and what has gone too far? I feel like what I am seeing is right on the edge. Maybe not. Maybe it's all just good fun and I just need to relax! So far it's no problem to walk over and tell them to quit or send them outside, but a couple of times they haven't seemed as willing to listen.


It's hard to describe, but it's very different then when they play. It normally happens when Scudder goes for something Bella feel is hers, like a chew or bone. They try to bite each other but before that happens, I am breaking them up. They are both shaking in anger and snarling at each other.
It sounds like 2 pit bulls, that's not an exaggeration. The thing is, Bella couldn't hurt Scudder. She is 6 lbs soaking wet and he is 16lbs!


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

lfung5 said:


> The thing is, Bella couldn't hurt Scudder. She is 6 lbs soaking wet and he is 16lbs!


Size isn't always a factor. My 7 pound pom took on a rottie that was getting ready to attack my husband and won. If one of the havs in our house took on our standard poodle, she would let the hav 'win', but she'd pin them down to stop them.
There was one time we had a problem and it was when the standard poodle who thinks she's the Mother of all small creatures tried to tell Bandit that she was junk for a Mother. Whoa that didn't go over well. They were nose to nose, hair standing up straight, and teeth bared. I stood right there to let them settle it and that standoff did the trick. My spoo backed off and said she was sorry.....then kept one eye out to make sure Bandit was really a good Mommy. As a side note, know your dogs _very_ well before allowing that


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

Okay. It hasn't reached the point you are describing, Jan and Linda! Tonight it looks more like play. I may make a video of the action if it still seems out of hand to me. The rescue group has been great about helping me. I am really impressed with HRI and all the support I have received as a first-time foster. I'm just asking everyone I can. My breeder was here thursday, but none of this happened while she was here, of course! She lives a couple of hours away.


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