# Puppy Mill Havanese



## furfan (Nov 24, 2008)

A few months ago, we lost one of our dogs. Recently, we’ve started to look for a new companion for our 12-year-old Havanese. Today we went to see a 7-year-old Havanese who had been rescued from a puppy mill when he was younger, then adopted by a family, then returned, adopted again, and returned due to family problems. So he’s been through a lot. Since being returned to the rescue he’s been with a foster mom and her dogs for about a week. He isn’t super fond of people and snapped at her (kind of gummed her hand rapidly). He also growled at me today when I was paying too much attention to him from another room. He and our Havanese seemed indifferent to each other, but didn’t have any obvious problems. Can we help him get past this issues if we adopt him? I don’t know if I’ve explained very well. We would need him to eventually be comfortable with other people in our house.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

furfan said:


> Can we help him get past this issues if we adopt him?


Poor abused dog! Thank you for considering a rescue. Can you help him? YES, if you are up to it and have lots of patience and understanding. It will require a lot of work on your part since it appears he doesn't seem to trust humans.

Let me tell you about ANDY who is Havanese mix and was adopted out of a puppy mill rescue. We don't know how old he is, but certainly on the younger age. He moved into his new family down the street from us several months ago. Initially ANDY was shy and withdrawn and fearful. When walking RICKY I would ignore him and he and Ricky would sniff butts and then ignore each other. Over the months, we would encounter ANDY outdoors and relationships improved very gradually. Today ANDY and RICKY are best friends and love each others company and love to play together. ANDY will come running to me for lots of petting. He always has a big smile on his face now. Yesterday we were leaving in the car and ANDY was walking on the sidewalk with his loving owner, an elderly woman. RICKY saw ANDY out the window of the car and started calling to him with vigorous barking - "HI ANDY, LET'S PLAY!" Then Andy started barking - "I WANT TO GO WITH YOU." They are very good friends.

So anything is possible if you have the willingness and patience to make this work and probably lots of work with an experienced trainer. Good luck and thank you. If you adopt him come back to us for assistance on reincorporating him into a supportive world, I would have a couple of suggestions. Members here are willing to help. Just know that there is a loving Havanese deep down under the fear, distrust, and neglect.

BOW WOW! you are a 13 year member of HF. I'm impressed!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky's Popi gave you a very good answer. There are no promises with rescue dogs, so there is no way for us to say for certain how far out of his shell he can come. Can/will he improve? That is for SURE, if you are willing to put in the possibly hard work. Will he ever be just like your stable, well bred dog? That's a tougher call. Maybe. Some dogs can come through all that and be just fine once they are in the right surrounds. But it is also true that one of the REASONS that we so strongly advocate for good breeders is that good dispositions are neither all nature nor all nurture. There are aspects of both. If his underlying disposition is untrusting or unstable, it is possible that he will never be quite the dog you hope. Does that mean he's not worth rescuing? No, of course not! But you need to put some hard thought into whether you are willing and prepared to adjust your expectations and live with a dog who is NOT quite the outgoing, happy-go-lucky personality of your other guy. Be cause he may not ever be. He MIGHT be with time and effort, but you won't know until you get there.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Maybe there's someone on the forum who knows about rescue dogs. I have a friend who is the leader of a group who rescue's dogs, fosters and does some training and then adopts them out. I'll PM you the info if interested. Let me know. 

Mikki


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I would run some of this past a behaviorist or a group with more specific rescue experience. There are lots of people with Havanese rescues and other rescues on the forum, and some with rescue experience, but less than you’d see in a group specifically for that. Havanese don’t have breed specific tendencies like pit bulls that could affect their success as rescues (which is not to sound biased against pit bulls since the cards are often stacked against them). A Havanese has just as much of a chance to be successful as any other rescue. In general, I would say the chances of a rescue Havanese having trouble with staying home alone might be higher, since they have a tendency towards separation anxiety if it’s not managed early, but that has nothing to do with socialization between the two Havanese. If you were getting a second Havanese that isn’t a rescue, there would still be a chance that they wouldn’t get along and you’d need professional intervention, so if you decide to do it, maybe seek someone out now in case they have a waiting list.

Also, we love pictures on the Havanese forum so feel free to show off pictures of your Havanese and your previous dog!


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## furfan (Nov 24, 2008)

Mikki said:


> Maybe there's someone on the forum who knows about rescue dogs. I have a friend who is the leader of a group who rescue's dogs, fosters and does some training and then adopts them out. I'll PM you the info if interested. Let me know.
> 
> Mikki


Yes, I would like that. Thanks!


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## furfan (Nov 24, 2008)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Poor abused dog! Thank you for considering a rescue. Can you help him? YES, if you are up to it and have lots of patience and understanding. It will require a lot of work on your part since it appears he doesn't seem to trust humans.
> 
> Let me tell you about ANDY who is Havanese mix and was adopted out of a puppy mill rescue. We don't know how old he is, but certainly on the younger age. He moved into his new family down the street from us several months ago. Initially ANDY was shy and withdrawn and fearful. When walking RICKY I would ignore him and he and Ricky would sniff butts and then ignore each other. Over the months, we would encounter ANDY outdoors and relationships improved very gradually. Today ANDY and RICKY are best friends and love each others company and love to play together. ANDY will come running to me for lots of petting. He always has a big smile on his face now. Yesterday we were leaving in the car and ANDY was walking on the sidewalk with his loving owner, an elderly woman. RICKY saw ANDY out the window of the car and started calling to him with vigorous barking - "HI ANDY, LET'S PLAY!" Then Andy started barking - "I WANT TO GO WITH YOU." They are very good friends.
> 
> ...


I may have joined before we got our first Havanese.


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## BoosDad (Mar 8, 2020)

furfan said:


> A few months ago, we lost one of our dogs. Recently, we’ve started to look for a new companion for our 12-year-old Havanese. Today we went to see a 7-year-old Havanese who had been rescued from a puppy mill when he was younger, then adopted by a family, then returned, adopted again, and returned due to family problems. So he’s been through a lot. Since being returned to the rescue he’s been with a foster mom and her dogs for about a week. He isn’t super fond of people and snapped at her (kind of gummed her hand rapidly). He also growled at me today when I was paying too much attention to him from another room. He and our Havanese seemed indifferent to each other, but didn’t have any obvious problems. Can we help him get past this issues if we adopt him? I don’t know if I’ve explained very well. We would need him to eventually be comfortable with other people in our house.


My opinion - Unless you are willing to invest substantial sums of money and time, please approach with caution. I worked with two rescue groups in the past. Most reputable rescues will not adopt out an animal with severe behavioral problems. It is not fair to the animal or the human adopter. However, often, you will encounter an animal, who has been abused and just needs some extra attention and help to become their best self. I adopted a toy poodle (a puppy mill dog) at the end of 2013. He had been through two rescues, returned by two previous owners, and was about to be euthanized, when my rescue took him on. Due to poor dental hygiene, most of his teeth needed to be extracted. He also had early kidney disease, cardiac issues, and some personality problems (possible abuse). However, with lots of attention, professional training, an appropriate diet, and good veterinary care, he blossomed into the sweetest little dog. He passed at the age of 17 in 2020. 

So, based on my experience, an abused or neglected dog can be rehabilitated and become an outstanding family member. However, it does take time and money (sometimes substantial sums). If you do not have the money or time to invest, I would not consider adoption.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

furfan said:


> Yes, I would like that. Thanks!



Sounds like BoosDad has the experience you're looking for regarding what you maybe getting into with a rescue dog. I'll be glad to send along my friends name but I think you've got what you need.


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## furfan (Nov 24, 2008)

BoosDad said:


> My opinion - Unless you are willing to invest substantial sums of money and time, please approach with caution. I worked with two rescue groups in the past. Most reputable rescues will not adopt out an animal with severe behavioral problems. It is not fair to the animal or the human adopter. However, often, you will encounter an animal, who has been abused and just needs some extra attention and help to become their best self. I adopted a toy poodle (a puppy mill dog) at the end of 2013. He had been through two rescues, returned by two previous owners, and was about to be euthanized, when my rescue took him on. Due to poor dental hygiene, most of his teeth needed to be extracted. He also had early kidney disease, cardiac issues, and some personality problems (possible abuse). However, with lots of attention, professional training, an appropriate diet, and good veterinary care, he blossomed into the sweetest little dog. He passed at the age of 17 in 2020.
> 
> So, based on my experience, an abused or neglected dog can be rehabilitated and become an outstanding family member. However, it does take time and money (sometimes substantial sums). If you do not have the money or time to invest, I would not consider adoption.


Oh, dear. My husband wanted him so much that we got him this afternoon. But I will keep your advice in mind. Thank you!


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Remember we are all here to help you. Let us know how it is going. And PLEASE give us regular updates and photos of both dogs.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Remember we are all here to help you. Let us know how it is going. And PLEASE give us regular updates and photos of both dogs.


Yes! Photos are MANDATORY here! LOL! (Just kidding, but only a little!)


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

People who take on Rescue Dogs have Big Hearts. 💓 
Thankfully there are people like you - who for the love of dogs take in the abused and unwanted and turn their precious lives around. Hope you keep us updated on how things go.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

furfan said:


> A few months ago, we lost one of our dogs. Recently, we’ve started to look for a new companion for our 12-year-old Havanese. Today we went to see a 7-year-old Havanese who had been rescued from a puppy mill when he was younger, then adopted by a family, then returned, adopted again, and returned due to family problems. So he’s been through a lot. Since being returned to the rescue he’s been with a foster mom and her dogs for about a week. He isn’t super fond of people and snapped at her (kind of gummed her hand rapidly). He also growled at me today when I was paying too much attention to him from another room. He and our Havanese seemed indifferent to each other, but didn’t have any obvious problems. Can we help him get past this issues if we adopt him? I don’t know if I’ve explained very well. We would need him to eventually be comfortable with other people in our house.


Popi and Karen have given some good answers. I would also say that if you have major concerns to bring in a behaviorist who might be able to help you determine reasonable expectations after which you can decide if that's what you're willing to do and live with.

Perry is a rescue - but we got him at 8 months old. He was very shy, afraid of everything. I recently found out that he also bit my husband the first month we had him. We haven't done as much specific work as we should have, but gradually he's gotten more confident in some circumstances and more comfortable. He still takes time to warm up to people and is still not very fond of men at all, but there has been gradual progress over time. We are now back in the US and he's interacting more with people and other dogs (we didn't have that many opportunities when we were living in Kampala) and I feel like there have been some breakthroughs. After being very wary with my husband (barking, being afraid, growling), in the last month he's started putting his head on my husband's leg when we're lying on the bed. He's now approaching my sister for attention. He has even approached (though backs off but will take treats) my nephew. It's slow, he's never going to be the outgoing, love everyone dog that many Havs are. He's almost 5. So it's a matter of tempering expectations.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

furfan said:


> A few months ago, we lost one of our dogs. Recently, we’ve started to look for a new companion for our 12-year-old Havanese. Today we went to see a 7-year-old Havanese who had been rescued from a puppy mill when he was younger, then adopted by a family, then returned, adopted again, and returned due to family problems. So he’s been through a lot. Since being returned to the rescue he’s been with a foster mom and her dogs for about a week. He isn’t super fond of people and snapped at her (kind of gummed her hand rapidly). He also growled at me today when I was paying too much attention to him from another room. He and our Havanese seemed indifferent to each other, but didn’t have any obvious problems. Can we help him get past this issues if we adopt him? I don’t know if I’ve explained very well. We would need him to eventually be comfortable with other people in our house.


Popi and Karen have given some good answers. I would also say that if you have major concerns to bring in a behaviorist who might be able to help you determine reasonable expectations after which you can decide if that's what you're willing to do and live with.

Perry is a rescue - but we got him at 8 months old. He was very shy, afraid of everything. I recently found out that he also bit my husband the first month we had him. We haven't done as much specific work as we should have, but gradually he's gotten more confident in some circumstances and more comfortable. He still takes time to warm up to people and is still not very fond of men at all, but there has been gradual progress over time. We are now back in the US and he's interacting more with people and other dogs (we didn't have that many opportunities when we were living in Kampala) and I feel like there have been some breakthroughs. After being very wary with my husband (barking, being afraid, growling), in the last month he's started putting his head on my husband's leg when we're lying on the bed. He's now approaching my sister for attention. He has even approached (though backs off but will take treats) my nephew. It's slow, he's never going to be the outgoing, love everyone dog that many Havs are. He's almost 5. So it's a matter of tempering expectations.


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## furfan (Nov 24, 2008)

Melissa Brill said:


> Popi and Karen have given some good answers. I would also say that if you have major concerns to bring in a behaviorist who might be able to help you determine reasonable expectations after which you can decide if that's what you're willing to do and live with.
> 
> Perry is a rescue - but we got him at 8 months old. He was very shy, afraid of everything. I recently found out that he also bit my husband the first month we had him. We haven't done as much specific work as we should have, but gradually he's gotten more confident in some circumstances and more comfortable. He still takes time to warm up to people and is still not very fond of men at all, but there has been gradual progress over time. We are now back in the US and he's interacting more with people and other dogs (we didn't have that many opportunities when we were living in Kampala) and I feel like there have been some breakthroughs. After being very wary with my husband (barking, being afraid, growling), in the last month he's started putting his head on my husband's leg when we're lying on the bed. He's now approaching my sister for attention. He has even approached (though backs off but will take treats) my nephew. It's slow, he's never going to be the outgoing, love everyone dog that many Havs are. He's almost 5. So it's a matter of tempering expectations.


Already I miss the happy, sociable Havanese that our other dog is. It’s hard not to pick him up and give him a gentle hug. But, like you said, we’ll just have to give him time and space.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

furfan said:


> Already I miss the happy, sociable Havanese that our other dog is. It’s hard not to pick him up and give him a gentle hug. But, like you said, we’ll just have to give him time and space.


The comparisons are the hardest - and honestly I think that's one of the biggest problems my husband had. He didn't grow up with dogs so his interactions have been limited, but he spent a lot of time with my last dog (Dalmatian) and my mom's Scotty - so he wasn't "ready" for a challenging/ shy/ anxious/ suspicious/ not what you would call friendly dog that Perry ended up being when the other two were the opposite of that.


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