# Mink Oil?



## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

I've read some posts that talk about using mink oil on our havs. What exactly does this do and how do you use it? Oliver's hair is getting really long and I bathe him once a week. I use shampoo and conditioner (nothing special from my local pet store) but it doesn't seem to be working well. He gets matted up and sometimes we even cut out the matts rather than working through them because it's just easier. Is there anything I can use to make his hair softer and more managable? Would mink oil be the way to go?


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

tcollins said:


> I've read some posts that talk about using mink oil on our havs. What exactly does this do and how do you use it? Oliver's hair is getting really long and I bathe him once a week. I use shampoo and conditioner (nothing special from my local pet store) but it doesn't seem to be working well. He gets matted up and sometimes we even cut out the matts rather than working through them because it's just easier. Is there anything I can use to make his hair softer and more managable? Would mink oil be the way to go?


I have heard mink oil is really good. It is for deep conditioning. I have been using a new product that is called summerwinds oil treatment. Zoey's coat is mating because her adult coat is coming in and tangling up with the softer puppy hair. I think the oil is helping it from tangling. Mine is mineral oil I have heard mink oil is about the best you can buy. You still need to comb and brush daily to control the matting. I just followed the directions it is a leave on treatment. I filled the sink up with about 5 inches of water to 1 cup and just poured it over her for 10 min. Then I rapped her in a warm towel for about 5 min. Before using that she would be a lot harder to comb out her hair looked like felt way down to the skin. She seems really greasy now I think I put too much in. But combing her today took about half the time and that was after a afternoon hiking.
The best way to condition the coat is threw a healthy diet and don't use a hot blow dryer a cool air one is the best. Zoey was getting so fluffy and thick I have no idea if she needed conditioning or not but the oil is certainly calming down the fluff she looks half the size I like her hair better without it but am finding it a lot easer to manage.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

How old is Oliver? Could he be blowing coat??


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

I don't know how many times I have to write this oil is for conditioning the coat after much abuse not for matting in fact if you leave oil on too long or don't get all the matts out first the tangling and matts can get worse. If you show your dog and esp dogs like Tzu's, Lhasa's and TT's you are showing these dogs with much grooming and very harsh products, things like flat irons, hairspray, straighting products, blow dryers on hot settings, grooming...grooming, mega grooming. This kind of thing is very hard on a coat, the average pet owner unless they swim or dock dive etc., should not need oil. A little mink oil sprayed on the rear is different. Oil is no quick fix, brushing will save you money and your pets coats. Many a show dog is cut down after getting a championship because the oil will not come out and the coat is ruined, yes it grows back. Remember our guys have very porous hair, be careful.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> I don't know how many times I have to write this oil is for conditioning the coat after much abuse not for matting in fact if you leave oil on too long or don't get all the matts out first the tangling and matts can get worse. If you show your dog and esp dogs like Tzu's, Lhasa's and TT's you are showing these dogs with much grooming and very harsh products, things like flat irons, hairspray, straighting products, blow dryers on hot settings, grooming...grooming, mega grooming. This kind of thing is very hard on a coat, the average pet owner unless they swim or dock dive etc., should not need oil. A little mink oil sprayed on the rear is different. Oil is no quick fix, brushing will save you money and your pets coats. Many a show dog is cut down after getting a championship because the oil will not come out and the coat is ruined, yes it grows back. Remember our guys have very porous hair, be careful.


 You learn something new everyday another $20.00 down the drain. Zoey probably has not even needed the stuff. She looks like a greasy mess  The only damaging thing I have put on her was a silocone stuff to make her shinny and I only used it twice. I have always groomed with a cool air dryer and we eat right too! I swear it gets so hard when it comes to being so uneducated about products. I hope it comes out:frusty:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I think the corn starch works better for actually getting out the mats, as far as mink oil, I have used very little rubbed into her coat, I think it adds a nice shine/sheen, but as far as preventing and getting out mats, not so much. The best way to prevent mats is keep the coat nicely conditioned and comb/brush out every day. When Gucci was blowing coats, I'd condition her coat every weekend, shampooing every other, unless it was allergy season then I'd shampoo weekly for my own sanity.

Kara


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## GrannyMouse (Sep 3, 2010)

I use Moroccan Oil on my dog's coat. I put just a dab in my hands and apply it while she is still wet. I do it after the shampoo and conditioner. I even use it on my own hair. It is amazing how it makes it feel. You can also use it on a dry coat before going into the ring managability.


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

Tammy-yes, I do think he is blowing coat. I just bathed him today and brushed and brushed and brushed...I worked through many of the mats (with the cornstarch, thank you Kara) and then even cut a few that were so bad that I just couldn't get out and when I was done, he was still matted but not so bad. 
So I took him to our groomer and told her that I just couldn't get the mats out and that I think he may be blowing coat, but that I wasn't sure. She told me that my type of dog doesn't "blow coat" and that it is a conditioning and brushing issue. I don't know what to think.


btw...Laughing magpie-I personally have only been on the forum for 6 months or so and actually searched mink oil on the forum before I even posted. I found nothing that really even talked much about it. I have never seen a post by you or anyone else, so I'm sorry if I offended you by asking about it.

But thank you for the suggestions. Especially the corn starch. I used it today and it did make his mats more managable. And Suzi, I did look up the differences in the mineral and mink oil and it looks like you're right-price.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tcollins said:


> Tammy-yes, I do think he is blowing coat. I just bathed him today and brushed and brushed and brushed...I worked through many of the mats (with the cornstarch, thank you Kara) and then even cut a few that were so bad that I just couldn't get out and when I was done, he was still matted but not so bad.
> So I took him to our groomer and told her that I just couldn't get the mats out and that I think he may be blowing coat, but that I wasn't sure. She told me that my type of dog doesn't "blow coat" and that it is a conditioning and brushing issue. I don't know what to think.
> 
> btw...Laughing magpie-I personally have only been on the forum for 6 months or so and actually searched mink oil on the forum before I even posted. I found nothing that really even talked much about it. I have never seen a post by you or anyone else, so I'm sorry if I offended you by asking about it.
> ...


How old is your dog? Your groomer doesn't know what she's talking about if she thinks Havs don't blow coat. They don't do it twice a year, as shedding breeds do, but the DEFINITELY blow coat when changing from their puppy coat to their adult coat. This can happen once twice, or occasionally 3 times. Once in a GREAT while, you hear of a Hav who continues to blow coat (in a minor way) preiodically on an on-going basis, though that is rare.

the first one, typically between 10-12 months is by far the worst. They get progressively shorter and less difficult as they get older.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tcollins said:


> Tammy-yes, I do think he is blowing coat. I just bathed him today and brushed and brushed and brushed...I worked through many of the mats (with the cornstarch, thank you Kara) and then even cut a few that were so bad that I just couldn't get out and when I was done, he was still matted but not so bad.
> So I took him to our groomer and told her that I just couldn't get the mats out and that I think he may be blowing coat, but that I wasn't sure. She told me that my type of dog doesn't "blow coat" and that it is a conditioning and brushing issue. I don't know what to think.
> 
> btw...Laughing magpie-I personally have only been on the forum for 6 months or so and actually searched mink oil on the forum before I even posted. I found nothing that really even talked much about it. I have never seen a post by you or anyone else, so I'm sorry if I offended you by asking about it.
> ...


How old is your dog? Your groomer doesn't know what she's talking about if she thinks Havs don't blow coat. They don't do it twice a year, as shedding breeds do, but the DEFINITELY blow coat when changing from their puppy coat to their adult coat. This can happen once twice, or occasionally 3 times. Once in a GREAT while, you hear of a Hav who continues to blow coat (in a minor way) preiodically on an on-going basis, though that is rare.

the first one, typically between 10-12 months is by far the worst. They get progressively shorter and less difficult as they get older.


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## Becky Chittenden (Feb 4, 2009)

When I have dogs going through the coat change, I make sure they are well brushed prior to bathing, at the end of the bath, I use the conditioner and let it sit on them a while before rinsing and rinse well. Occasionally I'll find a knot or two when drying (I use a forced air dryer and brush while drying) and they come out very easily.


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

you mention that you brush and brush and brush.... but do you COMB?
I use my brush MAYBE once a week, after a bath, other than that I use my comb ALL the time, in fact it is here next to me on the end table right now! LOL the comb is really the best tool for getting down to the skin and getting out the shedding hairs that cause those matts! so if you don't have a comb, go order one STAT! 

oh, and I am convinced that TIllie is one of those RARE types that blows coat ALL the time!! ound:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

TilliesMom said:


> oh, and I am convinced that TIllie is one of those RARE types that blows coat ALL the time!! ound:


Oh, she's still WAY too young to give up hope yet!!!ound:


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## TilliesMom (Sep 30, 2010)

thanks! :faint:


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

Yes, I do comb him. His brush has a brush on one side and a wirey-type brush on the other and a comb that slides out. But combing him is SO HARD because he won't sit still to go that slow and get the mats out!

Oliver is 1 year and 9 months. I didn't get him until he was about 14 months and he had had to be shaved because the mats were so bad.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tcollins said:


> Yes, I do comb him. His brush has a brush on one side and a wirey-type brush on the other and a comb that slides out. But combing him is SO HARD because he won't sit still to go that slow and get the mats out!
> 
> Oliver is 1 year and 9 months. I didn't get him until he was about 14 months and he had had to be shaved because the mats were so bad.


He should be past the worst of puppy coat-blowing by now. 

If you can't get him used to letting you comb him, though, I don't think you'll ever be able to maintain him in a longer coat. You really need to be able to get down to the skin, and do it close to daily. Tammy is right, a brush just won't do it, no matter how hard you try.


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

How do you make yours sit while you comb without trying to squirm away?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tcollins said:


> How do you make yours sit while you comb without trying to squirm away?


Well, by now, he'll stay relatively still even if I have to comb him out on the couch, as I had to do this weekend while we were away in our camper. But when he was younger, especially when he was blowing coat so I needed to deal with a lot of mats, I really needed to restrain him. So I put. Grooming loop on the bottom of a cabinet over my washing machine, put a rubber backed mat on the washer for him to stand on, and groomed him there. That is still where I groom him most of the time, just because it's simplest.

I know I've posted photos of my grooming set up before, but I'll see if I can find the link. (on my iPad now, so I can't add a photo to this). I've also got a grooming table with an arm and grooming slip. I use this when I'm traveling, but for every day, my washing machine set-up is easier.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

TCollins, Sorry if you felt I was addressing you, I was a little bit upset that you were not getting unbiased and knowledgeable advice. I feel like I am always lately expounding on the horrors of oil, I do not think oil is bad its just, I'm not real big on excuses and blaming the world, oil has its place and I have used it and do use it only on my Lhasa. My Hav's who are not show dogs but are in coat do not need oil, both have different coats, they do need brushing and combing and conditioning. This is what is most important and I know for people with a busy life style it is often hard to do. It just is not helpful to someone new to get advice that was, did not, and is still not helping. I want everyone to succeed to the best of their ability, if someone is unable to keep up at least they were given a fighting chance. I am so happy many others have chimed in about cornstarch, brushing, and combing to the skin.

Even older dogs can blow a coat and esp. females, but if your dog is over eighteen months and is blowing coat, there could be a medical problem. My girl who is shy blew her coat when I brought her home she was older, just had a oops litter, and was spayed in a very short period, even though her coat was short the blow was obvious. One year latter her coat was back and long, she had an accute allergy reaction and blew her coat, the coat can be a window to your dogs health. Even if you keep your dog in a puppy cut if is important to monitor your dogs coats overall condition. Females who just had a litter often do a kinda blow, and that is normal, but not all of them do. I hope you got enough information to help you decide what you need to do and what you can live with.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

tcollins said:


> How do you make yours sit while you comb without trying to squirm away?


o 
At his age you should just not allow him to squirm. Try grooming on your lap and have him lay on his back. Just start with short sessions and don't allow him to wiggle. I know easier said than done I learned that from a women who has been a trainer and groomer for over twenty years. She showed me and she diffidently showed Zoey who was boss. If Zoey wiggles away from the position I want her in I just put her right back. I was also taught not to talk at all during the grooming. I always say what a good girl after we are done and give treats.
I also think that everyone has their own opinion about products. I like the way the oil treatment conditioned Zoeys coat. I do think it helped the two differant coats to not get nearly as tangled. IMA She had about 1/4 the mats after her last bath.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tcollins said:


> How do you make yours sit while you comb without trying to squirm away?


I'm on my computer now, so I can post photos. So below you will see my inexpensive washer-top grooming station and also Kodi on my grooming table in the travel trailer. The grooming table was expensive, though, and definitely not a necessity. (plus, I'm tall and the height of the washer is better for my back! BTW, note the big container of corn starch in Kodi's grooming basket!:biggrin1:

I also agree completely with Robbie. Unless you have already damaged your Havs coats with too many, different products, it's very unlikely that you would need oil for his coat. Their coat is supposed to be light and airy, NOT greasy.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Karen I love your travel table, how is it on its legs? Yogi weighs about 17.5 he does not move around much but still.

As for not talking to your dog during grooming, I always do, I still treat them if they have to endure a very nasty matt, I treat them when they obey my directions lay down turn etc., very small treats. People who show their dogs have many different styles, I have heard some croon softly. The most important thing is you start getting your dog use to being handled and groomed, grooming can be a special time for you and your dog.


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## misstray (Feb 6, 2011)

I talk softly to Brody while grooming him. I think it reassures and relaxes him. I'd like to treat him throughout the procedure, but I've found that if I have treats nearby to use throughout the grooming process then he is constantly trying to get to the treats and wiggles worse than if they aren't there. So, I don't treat him until it's over.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Karen I love your travel table, how is it on its legs? Yogi weighs about 17.5 he does not move around much but still.
> 
> As for not talking to your dog during grooming, I always do, I still treat them if they have to endure a very nasty matt, I treat them when they obey my directions lay down turn etc., very small treats. People who show their dogs have many different styles, I have heard some croon softly. The most important thing is you start getting your dog use to being handled and groomed, grooming can be a special time for you and your dog.


It's a Champagne tall ringside grooming Table. It EASILY folds up, and sets up just as easily. It was not inexpensive, but, IMO, worth every penny. The top is rubberized to eliminate slipping, and it is rock steady on its feet. That was very important to me, since Kodi gets really nervous on things that sway or move under him. (then moves more, which makes the thing sway more...)

I agree, I talk to Kodi all the time while I'm grooming him. We're in it together. I try not to sound overly sympathetic... the last thing I want to do is get him feeling sorry for himself. But I tell him he's fine, and just chatter to him in a light tone of voice. I don't give treats while I'm grooming him very often now, because he rarely gets mats. But when he was younger, not so used to grooming AND blowing coat... he got LOTS of treats for staying still.

I know a lot of people like to have their dog lie flat for grooming... I'd like it if Kodi were willing to do that, but he's not. So as long as he stands still (or he can sit for most of it actually) that's fine with me. When he was blowing coat and I needed to get through his coat layer by layer and not miss anything, I used those plastic hair clips that hairdressers use to keep sections of hair out of the way while working on other sections. Worked like a charm.

To do his rear, I slip my arm under his belly, just in front of his flanks, pull his tail to the side, and work on his butt. Then I carefully brush out his tail (this is the only place where I find that the wood pin brush takes out less hair than the Butter Comb) starting at the hair ends and working toward the tail bone. Then I stand him on his hind legs, with a hand under his elbows to get to his belly. Finally, I take the grooming slip off to go over his neck with nothing in the way, and make sure we haven't missed anything there. It works for us!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

The being quiet has worked for us. The deep conditioning did help and being greasy for a few days was worth it. I washed it out yesterday her coat is no longer frizzy and she had far less tangles and the felting was gone.
I wasn't saying oil treatments work to detangle mats I was saying having the coat conditioned helps prevent the nasty little guys Or it was just a coincidence and she is done blowing coat. Maybe you guys are confused about the product maybe it is no different than a conditioner . All my other conditioners don't list what is in it. On another trend everyone was talking about coconut oil I just bought some Bio groom shampoo with coconut oil .
The people I have been taking their advice don't have havanese they have maltese and Yorkies maybe their advice is wrong. I don't think those breeds have a double coat. 
It sounds to me like Oliver needs to go be buzzed down and start over. If he has a bunch of mats down to the skin and he wiggles so much you cant get then out it may be easier on him and you to have a groomer help. Then I would research a better comb brush ect. The one you have sounds like a three in one ? Here is a picture of my combs and brushes. I also have a small comb that has a very fine tooth like a flea comb


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> The being quiet has worked for us. The deep conditioning did help and being greasy for a few days was worth it. I washed it out yesterday her coat is no longer frizzy and she had far less tangles and the felting was gone.
> I wasn't saying oil treatments work to detangle mats I was saying having the coat conditioned helps prevent the nasty little guys Or it was just a coincidence and she is done blowing coat. Maybe you guys are confused about the product maybe it is no different than a conditioner . All my other conditioners don't list what is in it. On another trend everyone was talking about coconut oil I just bought some Bio groom shampoo with coconut oil .
> The people I have been taking their advice don't have havanese they have maltese and Yorkies maybe their advice is wrong. I don't think those breeds have a double coat.


Maltese and Yorkies have VERY different texture coats than a Havanese should have. My guess is that the requirements of such a coat would be very different.

Coconut oil is just the BASE of the BioGroom products. (and many other good quality shampoos as well) It's not like putting straight coconut oil on your dog. It is just a very mild, skin and coat friendly base ingredient. The shampoo is still shampoo and the conditioner is still "just" a conditioner, NOT an "oil treatment". And neither leave the hair greasy at all, if used properly.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

krandall said:


> Maltese and Yorkies have VERY different texture coats than a Havanese should have. My guess is that the requirements of such a coat would be very different.
> 
> Coconut oil is just the BASE of the BioGroom products. (and many other good quality shampoos as well) It's not like putting straight coconut oil on your dog. It is just a very mild, skin and coat friendly base ingredient. The shampoo is still shampoo and the conditioner is still "just" a conditioner, NOT an "oil treatment". And neither leave the hair greasy at all, if used properly.


 I guess I didn't post right my product is like a leave on conditioner not pure oil. I have been trying to look up what is in dog conditioners and I haven't found ingredients for the CC spectrum ten. The only information I can find is on human conditioner this is what I found. Tom King said that Havanese hair is very similar to human hair. After reading threw this I think I'm going to try cream rinse . I wish I could find flex cream rinse I loved that years ago the smell is great! 
For centuries, natural oils have been used to condition human hair. These natural products are still used today, including essential oils such as tea tree oil and carrier oils such as jojoba oil. A conditioner popular with men in the late Victorian era was Macassar oil, but this product was quite greasy and required pinning a small cloth, known as an antimacassar, to chairs and sofas to keep the upholstery from being damaged by the Macassar oil.

Modern hair conditioner was created at the turn of the 20th century when well-known perfumer Ed. Pinaud presented a product he called brilliantine at the 1900 Exposition Universelle in Paris. His product was intended to soften men's hair, including beards and mustaches. Since the invention of Pinaud's early products, modern science has advanced the hair conditioner industry to include those made with silicone, fatty alcohols, and quaternary ammonium compounds. These chemical products allow the benefits of hair conditioner without feeling greasy or heavy.

Hair conditioner is different from cream rinse (often spelled "creme rinse"). A cream rinse is simply a detangler and, as its name implies, has a thinner consistency than conditioner. Hair conditioner is a thicker substance which coats the cuticle of the hair itself.
[edit]
Ingredients I might try cream rinse sometime

There are several types of hair conditioner ingredients, differing in composition and functionality:
Moisturizers, whose role is to hold moisture in the hair. Usually these contain high proportions of humectants.
Reconstructors, usually containing hydrolyzed protein. Their role is supposedly to penetrate the hair and strengthen its structure through polymer crosslinking.
Acidifiers, acidity regulators which maintain the conditioner's pH at about 3.5. In contact with acidic environment, the hair's somewhat scaly surface tightens up, as the hydrogen bonds between the keratin molecules are strengthened.
Detanglers, which modify the hair surface by pH as acidifiers, and/or by coating it with polymers, as glossers.
Thermal protectors, usually heat-absorbing polymers, shielding the hair against excessive heat, caused by, e.g., blow-drying or curling irons or hot rollers.
Glossers, light-reflecting chemicals which bind to the hair surface. Usually polymers, usually silicones, e.g., dimethicone or cyclomethicone.
Oils (EFAs - essential fatty acids), which can help dry/porous hair become more soft and pliable. The scalp produces a natural oil called sebum. EFAs are the closest thing to natural sebum (sebum contains EFAs).
Surfactants - Hair consists of approximately 97% of a protein called keratin. The surface of keratin contains negatively-charged amino acids. Hair conditioners therefore usually contain cationic surfactants, which don't wash out completely, because their hydrophilic ends strongly bind to keratin. The hydrophobic ends of the surfactant molecules then act as the new hair surface.
Lubricants, such as fatty alcohols, panthenol, dimethicone, etc.
Sequestrants, for better function in hard water.
Antistatic agents
Preservatives
[edit]
pH

Conditioners are frequently acidic, as low pH protonates the amino acids, providing the hair with positive charge and thus more hydrogen bonds between the keratin scales, giving the hair a more compact structure. Organic acids such as citric acid are usually used to maintain acidity.
[edit]
Types
Pack conditioners, are heavy and thick, with a high content of surfactants able to bind to the hair structure and "glue" the hair surface scales together. These are usually applied to the hair for a longer time. The surfactants are based on long straight aliphatic chains similar to saturated fatty acids. Their molecules have a tendency to crystallize easily, giving the conditioner higher viscosity, and they tend to form thicker layers on the hair surface.
Leave-in conditioners are thinner and have different surfactants which add only a little material to the hair. They are based on unsaturated chains, which are bent rather than straight. This shape makes them less prone to crystallizing, making a lighter, less viscous mixture and providing significantly thinner layer on the hair. The difference between leave-in and pack conditioners is similar to the difference between fats and oils.
Ordinary conditioners, combining some aspects of both pack and leave-in ones. These are generally applied directly after use of a shampoo, and manufacturers usually produce a conditioner counterpart for this purpose.
Hold conditioners, based on cationic polyelectrolyte polymers, holding the hair in a desired shape. These have both function and composition similar to diluted hair gel


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

WOW- I was watching my precious Detroit Tigers LOSE last night:frusty: so I didn't post a response, and now I don't know where to begin! LOL

Laughing Magpie- no problem

Karen- what a set up you have! omg...I swear when I first brought Oliver home, I had no idea I was bringing home a baby! I guess I should've had my family throw me a baby shower! (doggy shower?!) Oliver has more toys than all 3 of my kids had combined, and I even broke down and bought him a car seat (dh kinda spazzed) I'm always "stopping" by the pet store for "something" and he has a bed in our room, in his crate, in the living room...now I'm totally jealous and want to buy one of those cool tables! Where is the best place to buy a grooming slip? That would be SO helpful.

I try treats during, but then he just wants them and drops them...maybe just after would be a better idea. I don't talk to him, I sorta yell at him the whole time (JK-don't everyone freak out!)

Suzi- I am going to try mineral oil instead of the mink oil next time. Actually I combed alot last night (while I watched my precious Tigers LOSE) and got even more of the mats out. 

I am hesitant to shave him down and start over (I can't remember who suggested that!) because that is exactly what had been done when we got him. DH said absoluely not- Oliver is only 8 1/2 lbs and we are in for a cold winter (I hope not as bad as last year) so I would have to agree with dh (those darn husbands sure know what they're talking about?!)...this time at least  

Thank you ALL again for taking the time to help me! It's so awesome to have all of you! Who needs a vet or a groomer? (JK again! No hate mail please!!!)


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

Oh, and the grooming basket- GREAT IDEA! And Suzi, Oliver's brush probably isn't the greatest- it was like $10 at my local pet store. I am going to get a new and better comb for sure. And a new brush while I'm at it...and a grooming basket...and probably a new toy...or two...


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tcollins said:


> WOW- I was watching my precious Detroit Tigers LOSE last night:frusty: so I didn't post a response, and now I don't know where to begin! LOL
> 
> Laughing Magpie- no problem
> 
> ...


You don't have "everything" until you buy your "doggy stroller". THEN your DH won't even WALK with you anymore!ound:

If he will tolerate enough grooming that you can get through the mats, you will be well on your way. If he tolerates that, then every day grooming to keep up with his coat should be MUCH easier! If you are using a pet store brush, it is probably one of the ones that has little balls on the ends of the pins? If so, those are bad for Havanese coats. The pins rip the ends of the hair, which causes split ends and more mating. For sure, get yourself better tools. YOu CAN get "OK" combs locally... metal Greyhound combs are available at Petsmart, and I found a comb with rolling teeth that I liked quite a bit before I caved and bought my CC Butter Comb. In the end, though, the CC combs are just so much better that most of us buy them. There is more variation in terms of the brushes people use, but most everyone uses pin brushes WITHOUT balls on the end, and these can only be purchased from specialty places, either on line or at a dog show.

I would NOT put mineral oil on his coat. Mineral oil will clog his pores and make every BIT of dirt stick to his coat. ...And a dirty coat mats more.

What are you trying to accomplish with the oil? If you tell us what you think is wrong with his coat that you need to correct, maybe we can help you choose an appropriate product. All Havanese coats are prone to tangling if they are not groomed regularly, and the curlier and/or more cottony their coats are, the more grooming they need. This isn't something that can be "conditioned" or "oiled" away... it's a genetic part of the dog.

We can now test for curly coats, and some breeders do. Those that want to, have the choice to breed away from curly coats, producing dogs that are easier for all us pet-people to maintain. But if you don't have one of those dogs, you ahve to learn to live with (and groom) the coat of the dog you already love. If you have a curly, cottony guy (he's so short in your sig photo that you really can't tell) you will just need to keep him really clean, well conditioned (NOT "oiled") and groomed to the skin daily if you want to maintain him in a longer coat. If he has a silkier coat, you will STILL need to keep him clean, with his coat in good condition, but the daily grooming will be far easier and quicker!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

tcollins said:


> Oh, and the grooming basket- GREAT IDEA! And Suzi, Oliver's brush probably isn't the greatest- it was like $10 at my local pet store. I am going to get a new and better comb for sure. And a new brush while I'm at it...and a grooming basket...and probably a new toy...or two...


Don't forget that stroller!ound:


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## tcollins (May 1, 2011)

haha!!!

Honestly, Oliver would jump right out of a stroller! He LOVES to go for "walky time" and "bu-bye in the car" (when we say either of those things, he goes CRAZY!) 

Ok, this is the thing about Oliver's coat- it's much longer now than in that pic-any pics I have up, actually. I'll try to get a new one up ASAP. His tail is really thin, soft, feathery-like, his ears are oh, so soft and up by his neck and under. His back and body are a little more course, but not curly. There is a very slight wave in some places. His leg hairs are soft and long and also a bit feathery, and they mat REALLY bad. So does his back and around where his collar/harness is.

I guess what I was trying to do with the oil was PREVENT new mats. I had read that mink oil could help, but it sounds like I was wrong? Not sure, a few people said it sounded good? So I looked up some other things and found that mineral oil would be a more inexpensive choice. 

I read a post that someone used regular human shampoo on their hav, so I tried Pantene on him, but his belly broke out in a rash. I think it was too harsh for him.

I would like to make his back and body not so course, but softer and more managable and would like to cut down on future matting. I also was taking him to the groomer every 2-3 weeks and it's just getting too expensive to continue, so now I'm wanting to learn to do it right on my own. 

Thanks for all the advice I can get!


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I think I mixed you up because the product I have isn't pure oil. It is more like a leave on conditioner. You don't want to use it like I did I put too much on and she was greasey.Although she is so much softer and not frizzy . I have no idea how often I will use it. I had to use applecider vinager to strip it off. The vinager works really good for other things too. It is good for the skin and is a natural flee bath. I think we should both try cream rinse. Good luck! here is my silly grooming table you put it on a counter or your washing machine. It can go around in circles. I like Karen's set up on her machine although I didn't have cabinets when I bought the rounder table. I think I payed under $70 and is good for the smaller Havanese I really don't use it much anymore we are doing much better on my lap. Then I just stand them up on my table for the final touch up. It did work good for awhile.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Is your goal to grow him out, or just keep him in a longer puppy cut?

It's unusual for a Hav to have coarse hair anywhere, but I suppose it's possible. Oil is not going to make it less coarse, though, nor do I believe it will help with the matting. 

When Suzi talks about using oil, first of all, she's dealing with a puppy who is blowing coat, and second, she's just trying it herself for the first time. She hasn't had a track record of success using it. Robbie has been grooming and caring for several dogs of several drop-coated breeds for many years. She has LOTS of experience with it.

Some people swear by Pantene products for their Hav's coats. I haven't tried it, but obviously, if Oliver is allergic to it, that's off the plate!

From what you've said, I would try a good quality shampoo and conditioner. There are a number that people of the Forum like... My personal favorite is Biogroom, others prefer Isle of the Dog or Plum Silky. You may have to experiment a bit to find which works absolutely best for Oliver's coat type, but all of these are good products. 

Then I would keep a collar or harness OFF of him as much as possible. Many Havs can't wear these full-time without getting mats. For times that you need to have a collar or harness on him, try one made of rolled leather. These seem to mat the coat less than any other material.

Finally, as we've mentioned in other posts, try, if at all possible, to stay ahead of the mats. Groom him to the skin EVERY DAY, until you aren't finding any new mats. Then you MIGHT be able to stretch things out a bit. But that's just a "might". Many people find that they MUST groom their Hav daily to maintain a mat-free longer coat.


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## The Laughing Magpie (Aug 20, 2009)

Karen, Thanks for the info on your great table it is on my wish list for Christmas or Hanukah, I have been looking for a small one with good legs!!!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

The Laughing Magpie said:


> Karen, Thanks for the info on your great table it is on my wish list for Christmas or Hanukah, I have been looking for a small one with good legs!!!!


Well, I can't take credit... Kat told me about them. I LOVE it though!

Karen


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