# Kodi's first Agility Lesson



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

YAY!!! Kodi is a year old, and while we are waiting for Leeann's trainer to start a beginner class, we signed up for an agility class at the place we do obedience. We started just by sending him over a line of jumps toward a target (a hoola hoop with a treat in it) and then me calling him back over the same line of jumps. (he's used to single jumps from Rally and Obedience) He caught onto that really fast and had a ball with it. (in fact, at one point he ran off and started randomly jumping jumps.

The instructor also had me lure him through the weaves a couple of times, but I'm not sure he really got anything out of that. I also know that many people are using channel weaves to teach weaves these days. I know Tom is going to post and say how easy it was for him to make weaves for Pam, but I am TOTALLY inept when it comes to building things. I saw these PVC channel weaves on E-Bay that weren't too expensive:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dog-Agility-Equ...aultDomain_0&hash=item3cad2dcb79#ht_930wt_940

But I wasn't sure if it confused them to be running over the pipe all the time. Does this look OK? Or is there something else that people suggest? I'd rather buy the right thing once than the wrong thing twice!


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Glad your first class was a lot of fun. They really seem to enjoy it as much as we do.

I have a set of those or similar to from affordable agility that Dash used as a puppy. Here is a little video of Dash at 8-9 months to give you the idea of him getting used to them. They are wide open and he is running through them but I liked that you could easily change them. Where I live the soil is clay so in the ground poles aren't fun to move when you are training.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

So you think it makes sense to get that kind to start with? (they are about $50, so not a HUGE investment)


----------



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I made some of each type. Pam likes the 2x2's best to start with. Do a google search for youtube 2x2 dog agility videos. With those, you get the entry down first. There are lots of videos like this: 



. I think the channel weaves and weave-a-matics probably work okay for big dogs but they were pretty much a waste of time for Posh.

The PVC fittings from Home Depot are not interference fit like ones from plumbing suppliers, so they slip together easily without even having to glue them if you want to be able to take them apart. I'm going to weld some metal 2x2 bases for Pam. Tractor Supply has just the right sized metal pieces for them-I'm sure not the cheapest price, but it still comes out WAY less than buying them already made.

Here's Susan Garrett's 2x2 stuff, but there are so many youtube videos on them, that you don't really need to buy a DVD.
http://www.clickerdogs.com/2x2_weave_training.php PVC ones work okay but the metal bases will be a lot more stable.

I'd be glad to make some for you too, but shipping would be pretty expensive, I imagine. Like these:
http://www.max200.com/max_storefront/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=89


----------



## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

ama0722 said:


> Glad your first class was a lot of fun. They really seem to enjoy it as much as we do.
> 
> I have a set of those or similar to from affordable agility that Dash used as a puppy. Here is a little video of Dash at 8-9 months to give you the idea of him getting used to them. They are wide open and he is running through them but I liked that you could easily change them. Where I live the soil is clay so in the ground poles aren't fun to move when you are training.
> 
> ...


Dora's attitude looks just like Smarty, only if i have too, LOL I love the video of Dasher he really enjoys it and it shows.


----------



## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

krandall said:


> YAY!!! Kodi is a year old, and while we are waiting for Leeann's trainer to start a beginner class, we signed up for an agility class at the place we do obedience. We started just by sending him over a line of jumps toward a target (a hoola hoop with a treat in it) and then me calling him back over the same line of jumps. (he's used to single jumps from Rally and Obedience) He caught onto that really fast and had a ball with it. (in fact, at one point he ran off and started randomly jumping jumps.
> 
> The instructor also had me lure him through the weaves a couple of times, but I'm not sure he really got anything out of that. I also know that many people are using channel weaves to teach weaves these days. I know Tom is going to post and say how easy it was for him to make weaves for Pam, but I am TOTALLY inept when it comes to building things. I saw these PVC channel weaves on E-Bay that weren't too expensive:
> 
> ...


Sorry I thought this posted&#8230;&#8230;Glad you had a good time at Agility. It is fun. My DS made me some with PVC which work well but I bet the cost is close to those in the link, with all the fittings.


----------



## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Great news Karen, I know you and Kodi are going to have a blast.

Carolyn trains with 2 x 2's if that helps in your decision. One thing you need to think of is what you will compete in, AKC, USDAA or CPE. They each have different weave distance between the polls, AKC is the only one that will not very from trial to trial.
There is a show in Fitchburg Memorial day weekend with agility if you would like to meet up, they may have vendors that you can buy some polls from also.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> I made some of each type. Pam likes the 2x2's best to start with. Do a google search for youtube 2x2 dog agility videos. With those, you get the entry down first. There are lots of videos like this: YouTube- Beginning the 2 X 2 weave poles.


Thanks, Tom. That's the kind of weave poles Leeann and Riley were using when I went to watch their lesson. I just didn't know what they were called. The annoying thing is that Max 200 is at a show this weekend that some of the people from our center are going to, and we put in a group order for dumbells to avoid the shipping. If I'd known, I could have asked them to throw the weaves in too!

One more question though... should I order the 22" or the 24"?


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Sandi- She is sweet old Dora about everything! She gets on the aframe and kills time looking around too.

I also have the 2x2 and did Susan Garrett's method with Dash and I am trying it right now with Dora. They also are more pricey just fyi (I think my set were like $250 or so). I like the method as I don't like using guide wires cause then you have to remove them. But the cheaper pvc weave o matics work well too especially when you just get started.


----------



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

There might even be some available at the show. There are a lot of local equipment makers around that don't advertise. We bought one good competition set of straight poles and I just copy those for the sizes of the metal pieces. Tractor Supply has the exact same size pieces in stock- just raw steel that needs cutting, welding, and painting for a few bucks, but you couldn't pay someone to do the welding for what you can buy the nice ready made, powder coated ones for. Metal or wood fabrication is no problem here.

It's probably a toss-up on which spacing. All our stuff I made before AKC went to 24". I'd guess that if he learns at 22" that the change to 24" would be easier than the reverse. I don't know that it really makes much difference for our size dogs.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi Amanda, from Max200, I can get 6 weaves (3 2x2's) for about $150, so that's not too bad. I know I'll probably eventually want 12, but I certainly could put off buying the other 6 for a while. Do you know if I should be getting the 22" or the 24"? I know that the spacing relates to the organization that you are competing under, but does it make a big difference? I would think that there are probably people who compete under more than one set of rules... they can't have to get two different sets of weaves, do they?


----------



## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Karen- there may be better people to ask that who compete in several venues. I have only shown Dora and Dash in AKC. I got the larger 2x2 since I knew we would mainly be competing in AKC as well. Dash has never had weave issues and agility trial venues use different weaves. I have only shown indoors once where the posts weren't buried and Dash even ignored that. Most places around me use 24" (not sure if that is a requirement yet or not) At my training place Dash uses 22 or 24 depending on which course he is running.


----------



## margaretandluigi (Mar 12, 2008)

Just to throw my twocents out there. I actually start training weaves with the K.I.S.S. weaves that you found on ebay. I made my own set because I wanted to be able to able to vary the distance between poles. I start teaching with 18 inch weaves because I want the dog to actually learn how to WEAVE. You'd be amazed how many small dog do not know how to weave, even in excellent/masters competition. Once the dog can weave at 18 inches, I switch out the bases to 19 inches then 20, slowly working my way up to 22, which used to be the norm for competition. All of my dogs have had excellent weaves and have been able to do them at a distance for gamble work. 

Now that AKC has decreed that only 24s are acceptable, alot of the non-AKC clubs are buying 24 inch weaves and using them. USDAA (which is my preferred venue), however, has stayed with 20 to 22. So I make sure that my dogs see both at class on a regular basis. 

Whatever method you choose, the key seems to be consistancy and working them for a few minutes several times every day. Weaves are so much muscle memory that they just require tons of repetition (but in very short segments).


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks for the input Margaret. I ended up ordering the 24" 2x2's. I suppose I could use the 2x2's to teach him the entry, then get a cheap set of the push in the ground weave poles to vary the spacing from 24" to 22"... Our ground is soft enough that it wouldn't be a problem to set them up.

I know the weaves take consistent practice... that's why I wanted a set at home.


----------



## KSC (Aug 6, 2009)

Way to go Karen and Kodi - looks like lot's of fun.

Amanda I love your three pictures of your flying fluffies!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

KSC said:


> Amanda I love your three pictures of your flying fluffies!


I agree!!! And while I love the Havie shots, little Miss Belle looks like a little bouncing ball in her photo!!!


----------



## klomanchiodo (Jul 5, 2010)

I have just completed a basic agiltity class with your Yorkie - he loved it! It was a great workout for both of us. General is much better when he is going fast through obstacles - otherwise he gets s bit distracted, especially looking for hot dog treats that were dropped by one of the other participants.

We would like our two havs to get involved in agility too as they get older. I decided that I wanted to build some of the equipment after seeing the prices of those online. I scruitinized the equipment at class and realized that much of it was pvc.

I did a number of searches online and found the following link:
http://www.instantagility.com/category/construction/

It gives specific instructions for how to build the equipment that is posted. I found it to be very easy to follow and was able to build the adjustable weave poles, which now sit on my lanai. I was quite proud of myself! Now General and I need to work on the weaves. I made one adjustment to the instructions. Instead of 1 inch pvc, I used 3/4 inch. It reduced my cost a bit - which was only $18 for the whole project.

I just got an order of clip-n-go jump cups and am ready to try my hand at pvc construction again to build my first jump.

I gained enough confidence that I raided my husbands 1/2 inch pvc to build some "hoops" (upside down U-shaped structures with feet) to teach the pups to go through them. I've read that they are too young to weave and to jump since their growth plates are still open. I figure we can work on them going through obstacles that won't put them at risk, but will help with handling.


----------



## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

krandall said:


> Thanks for the input Margaret. I ended up ordering the 24" 2x2's. I suppose I could use the 2x2's to teach him the entry, then get a cheap set of the push in the ground weave poles to vary the spacing from 24" to 22"... Our ground is soft enough that it wouldn't be a problem to set them up.
> 
> I know the weaves take consistent practice... that's why I wanted a set at home.


do you have susan's 2x2 video to teach you the proper way to train 2x2's? 
i started my border collie on 2x2's via a friends email...the cheap way and it was a mistake as i did not follow susan garretts method properly.

the AAC will switch to 24" weaves in august i think and from the rumor mill USDAA will be switching to 24" spacing also. the worlds is all 24" so the big dogs rule.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

hvapuppy2 said:


> do you have susan's 2x2 video to teach you the proper way to train 2x2's?
> i started my border collie on 2x2's via a friends email...the cheap way and it was a mistake as i did not follow susan garretts method properly.
> 
> the AAC will switch to 24" weaves in august i think and from the rumor mill USDAA will be switching to 24" spacing also. the worlds is all 24" so the big dogs rule.


my DVD's haven't arrived yet, but Ive ordered both her 2x2 DVD and the One Jump DVD. I've seen a few explanations of the 2x2 method, but haven't felt like I understood it well enough to try it. So even though I HAVE the 2x2 weaves, they are just set up straight for now.

Kodi is weaving 6 poles pretty reliably, but not fast, and only with me close. So I really want to get that video so I can teach him to speed up, and also so he can work further away from me. That said, we've stll only had about a half dozen lessons, and I'm really pleased with how he's coming along overall. More important, were both having a ball!!!


----------



## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

krandall said:


> my DVD's haven't arrived yet, but Ive ordered both her 2x2 DVD and the One Jump DVD. I've seen a few explanations of the 2x2 method, but haven't felt like I understood it well enough to try it. So even though I HAVE the 2x2 weaves, they are just set up straight for now.
> 
> Kodi is weaving 6 poles pretty reliably, but not fast, and only with me close. So I really want to get that video so I can teach him to speed up, and also so he can work further away from me. That said, we've stll only had about a half dozen lessons, and I'm really pleased with how he's coming along overall. More important, were both having a ball!!!


i'm not sure if it works to teach them to weave and then go back to the 2x2's... i wonder what SG thinks of that...i'll ask my friend who is a trainer.

from what i understand the 2x2's are not simply about learning the entry, but to see each weave as a gate, like the first gate...

speed also comes with ensuring the dog is in a heightened state, in a preydrive mode, playing with the tug toy or the collar grab (from SG's crate games) that is another excellent video, because it teaches the fundamentals of shaping the dog behavior and using the crates to increase drive. one soft crate on one side of the weaves and a soft crate on the other side of the weaves, or tunnel or frame etc.

i use the crate games before a run... get in your crate! she dashes into her crate and eagerly wants to be called out...

sorry to go on...good reminder for myself as i am trying to do more goofy play with my border collie...so that i am his fav' person/thing/toy etc \

PS i went to an 2 day seminar with SG advances in dog training, and also a few days with bella for double box masters handling.

A


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

hvapuppy2 said:


> i'm not sure if it works to teach them to weave and then go back to the 2x2's... i wonder what SG thinks of that...i'll ask my friend who is a trainer.
> 
> from what i understand the 2x2's are not simply about learning the entry, but to see each weave as a gate, like the first gate...


I _think_ I read on her site that you could use it to improve a dog's accuracy and speed at any time during weave training.



hvapuppy2 said:


> speed also comes with ensuring the dog is in a heightened state, in a preydrive mode, playing with the tug toy or the collar grab


Kodi is DEFINITELY in a "heightened state" when we are doing agility<g> ... we need to work on a little bit more FOCUS, I think. He gets a bit over wound, and sometimes just starts doing random obstacles. (his favorite of the moment is the A-frame) When he does, the trainer just told me to ignore it, not reward him for anything I don't ask for, and get him back on track.



hvapuppy2 said:


> (from SG's crate games) that is another excellent video, because it teaches the fundamentals of shaping the dog behavior and using the crates to increase drive. one soft crate on one side of the weaves and a soft crate on the other side of the weaves, or tunnel or frame etc.


I bought "Crate Games" late last fall, and worked on it all winter while we were indoors most of the time. He LOVES it. I've got to pull it out, watch it, and do some more with him again. We sort of moved on to other things, and haven't done much of it in a while.

But between him having a first-time, novice handler, AND only being 15 months old, I think he's doing pretty well. We seem to be going though a bit of a "teenage" phase at the moment. Maybe it's the excitement of doing the agility stuff, or maybe it's just his age, but he's getting a bit over-wound in his Rally and Obedience classes too.



hvapuppy2 said:


> i use the crate games before a run... get in your crate! she dashes into her crate and eagerly wants to be called out...
> 
> sorry to go on...good reminder for myself as i am trying to do more goofy play with my border collie...so that i am his fav' person/thing/toy etc
> 
> PS i went to an 2 day seminar with SG advances in dog training, and also a few days with bella for double box masters handling.A


Well, we are far from being experienced enough to do a seminar with her, but I'd LOVE to audit one at some point! I think she's amazing.


----------



## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

krandall said:


> Kodi is DEFINITELY in a "heightened state" when we are doing agility<g> ... we need to work on a little bit more FOCUS, I think. He gets a bit over wound, and sometimes just starts doing random obstacles. (his favorite of the moment is the A-frame) When he does, the trainer just told me to ignore it, not reward him for anything I don't ask for, and get him back on track.


I'm glad you pointed this out. Something you might want to work on is your reinforcement zone, you being the source of his joy. When he takes the a-frame on his own, he is self rewarding and this is conterproductive to agility. 
playing games of tug where he gets the most joy playing with you is a key way to keep him pumped but also listening to you.

Some people worry that too much close reinforcement zone stuff will not work when you want to do away work like gamble, but distance work is more about the dog understanding the requirement and then coming back really quickly to you for the reward.

in the SG method the dog takes the obstacle that is in the line you are running, it does not require you to ask the dog to take it. this helps to avoid a dog crossing behind you and taking an obstacle -- which is a problem ( also called an ass pass or blind cross  )

You'll see this shown in the success with one jump video. The dog will learn to decelerate with your movement and or command and also turn when you ask them to. Running a course becomes mostly about following your body cues.

sorry to babble on


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

hvapuppy2 said:


> I'm glad you pointed this out. Something you might want to work on is your reinforcement zone, you being the source of his joy. When he takes the a-frame on his own, he is self rewarding and this is conterproductive to agility.
> playing games of tug where he gets the most joy playing with you is a key way to keep him pumped but also listening to you.
> 
> Some people worry that too much close reinforcement zone stuff will not work when you want to do away work like gamble, but distance work is more about the dog understanding the requirement and then coming back really quickly to you for the reward.
> ...


Don't be sorry! I have S-O-O-O much to learn! I'll have to bring a tug toy out with me to see if this helps. So far, I've just been using food rewards.

What you said about crossing behind you is EXACTLY what he was doing today. The instructor had a tunnel set up in an "s", and then I had to catch him coming out to do a u-turn to a jump that happened to be sitting right beside the A-frame. I felt like I HAD to turn to look at the jump, at least for a moment (so that I didn't run into it!ound and the moment I glanced away from him, he did the A-frame rather than the jump.

Thanks for any tips you send this way... I appreciate them!


----------



## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

krandall said:


> Don't be sorry! I have S-O-O-O much to learn! I'll have to bring a tug toy out with me to see if this helps. So far, I've just been using food rewards.
> 
> What you said about crossing behind you is EXACTLY what he was doing today. The instructor had a tunnel set up in an "s", and then I had to catch him coming out to do a u-turn to a jump that happened to be sitting right beside the A-frame. I felt like I HAD to turn to look at the jump, at least for a moment (so that I didn't run into it!ound and the moment I glanced away from him, he did the A-frame rather than the jump.
> 
> Thanks for any tips you send this way... I appreciate them!


ok great! if he likes to tug, do some tug play in different places before you take the tug to class...sometimes the tug is not as appealling when it's just brought out in a place with other distractions.

my little pom cross loved to tug at home but not in class...if i could do it again, i would have introduced the tug in different places, gradually that is, in the yard, car...when you know he'll be in the mood...border collie would only tug at night in the living room...so i've had to figure out how to improve the love for the tug.

ignore this if he tugs anywhere  just don't want to set you up for practising the behavior you don't want.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

hvapuppy2 said:


> ok great! if he likes to tug, do some tug play in different places before you take the tug to class...sometimes the tug is not as appealling when it's just brought out in a place with other distractions.
> 
> my little pom cross loved to tug at home but not in class...if i could do it again, i would have introduced the tug in different places, gradually that is, in the yard, car...when you know he'll be in the mood...border collie would only tug at night in the living room...so i've had to figure out how to improve the love for the tug.
> 
> ignore this if he tugs anywhere  just don't want to set you up for practising the behavior you don't want.


I don't think we've ever tried playing tug outside the house. (not sure why... maybe because we didn't have tug toys with us?) I'll definitely start working on tugging in other places.

I have tried using a "jackpot" toy from time to time, and he does responde favorably to that. BUT I ONCE made the mistake of dropping it. He snatched it up and wound himself up for a game of keep away. I knew better than to even try to chase him... I just turned my back and walked into the house. He HATES being out by himself, so within a minute or two, he noticed I wasn't playing the game he wanted, and he was on the back step. I've been VERY careful not to let him get control of the jack pot toy again.


----------



## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

krandall said:


> I don't think we've ever tried playing tug outside the house. (not sure why... maybe because we didn't have tug toys with us?) I'll definitely start working on tugging in other places.
> 
> I have tried using a "jackpot" toy from time to time, and he does responde favorably to that. BUT I ONCE made the mistake of dropping it. He snatched it up and wound himself up for a game of keep away. I knew better than to even try to chase him... I just turned my back and walked into the house. He HATES being out by himself, so within a minute or two, he noticed I wasn't playing the game he wanted, and he was on the back step. I've been VERY careful not to let him get control of the jack pot toy again.


aww poor fella 

believe it of not, tugging is a tricky game to teach. i have not got a tug on either of my dogs.

bella never tugs, her baby teeth were loose and fell out...on the bottom...so i know that had something to do with it. i saw a dental person for dogs and they did not know why, as her teeth are excellent having been fed raw meaty bones all her life.

but she will retrieve, so i use that as our pre run warm up.

with the border collie, he did not have a tug on him when we got him, and he found the tugging frustrating when we would play. he would pull too hard and not bring the toy back... i tried various things, such as putting a ball in a tug, i got the food training tug toy (makes a mess btw, always have to wash it up etc.)

so what i am saying, is i'm not the best person to help with that  but i can tell you what i did wrong eace:

ideally you have a dog with a sustained tug...but you also don't want the dog to run away with the toy...so you need a command for a drop-it.

if you click and treat for a drop-it you run the risk of creating a very short unsustained tug....sooo Susan Garrett says use a different toy to teach the drop it command...not the tug. hopefully the command will transfer over to the tug without compromising the sustained tug.

also try not to over do the tug, because you want to keep it high value.

keep the toys in a separate box that the dog can only have access to when You decide to bring the toy out....make the event of going to get the toys a big deal...and watch the tail wag 

teasing with the tug needs to be done gently, because some dogs, like my border collie hates to be teased...he'd just as soon walk away...so keep it light and full of reward.

and just to reiterate, SG advised against using click 'n treat to teach/shape the tug, as it does not promote a sustained tug...and i learned that the hard way :brick: because the dog lets go of the tug to get the food... click stops the tug.


----------



## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

krandall said:


> What you said about crossing behind you is EXACTLY what he was doing today. The instructor had a tunnel set up in an "s", and then I had to catch him coming out to do a u-turn to a jump that happened to be sitting right beside the A-frame. I felt like I HAD to turn to look at the jump, at least for a moment (so that I didn't run into it!ound and the moment I glanced away from him, he did the A-frame rather than the jump.


One thing Susan kept repeating is reward reward reward....she was not happy with how much we were sequencing with the dog. after ANY tricky part you gotta reward with a treat...to mark that's what you wanted.

If I can take anything from the seminar it was reward more often. So as soon as he came out of the tunnel, you could have rewarded him, that would keep him with you to take the jump....and then reward _taking that jump!_
i know it seems like it would affect their drive forward...but when asking to differentiate between two obstacles you want him taking the obstacle closest to you unless otherwise stated...so you want him to pull to you after that s- tunnel. RZ RZ RZ

she was really ticked with us... and i thought i treated often... she kind of scowled at me and said "not cool"...which in my opinion is not cool from a lady her age to say, ha ha, what are we hip hop now ? :fish: but it did stick in my craw so it worked


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

hvapuppy2 said:


> aww poor fella
> 
> believe it of not, tugging is a tricky game to teach. i have not got a tug on either of my dogs.
> 
> ...


Well, the good news is that (in the house anyway) Kodi LOVES to tug, but will also give it up the minute you put your hands near his mouth (on the tug toy) and say "drop it". We never used clicker training for "fetch" or "tug" because they seemed to come pretty naturally.

The bad news is that while he'll fetch (and return the toy to you) inside the house till the cows come home, outside, if you throw anything for him, he takes off with it. Ignoring him will end the game, and he'll eventually come back to you, but not with the toy. I'm not sure how to translate what he does inside the house to out doors where there's LOTS more space. (we have 5 acres, unfenced (with dog-proof fencing... there's only split rail horse fencing), so plenty of room to try to entice you into a game of chase. My guys DO play "chase" with him, but NEVER in the agility field, which is about a 1/2 acre paddock. In there, if I can't keep him interested in the agility equipment or a game where he is closely interacting with me, we're done. I get him back working with me by asking for one thing that I know he loves (like the tunnel or our little mini A-frame) then tell him he's wonderful and take him in.


----------



## hvapuppy2 (Jan 25, 2008)

krandall said:


> Well, the good news is that (in the house anyway) Kodi LOVES to tug, but will also give it up the minute you put your hands near his mouth (on the tug toy) and say "drop it". We never used clicker training for "fetch" or "tug" because they seemed to come pretty naturally.
> 
> The bad news is that while he'll fetch (and return the toy to you) inside the house till the cows come home, outside, if you throw anything for him, he takes off with it. Ignoring him will end the game, and he'll eventually come back to you, but not with the toy. I'm not sure how to translate what he does inside the house to out doors where there's LOTS more space. (we have 5 acres, unfenced (with dog-proof fencing... there's only split rail horse fencing), so plenty of room to try to entice you into a game of chase. My guys DO play "chase" with him, but NEVER in the agility field, which is about a 1/2 acre paddock. In there, if I can't keep him interested in the agility equipment or a game where he is closely interacting with me, we're done. I get him back working with me by asking for one thing that I know he loves (like the tunnel or our little mini A-frame) then tell him he's wonderful and take him in.


i kind of know the feeling, but in a different way ha ha... jake won't retrieve anything but the ball...it has taken me some time to teach him to bring things back to me...it's like he did not understand that he was actually retrieving but rather just chasing the ball and then asking for me to throw it again.... does that make sense?

anyway, do you have a porch? maybe play retrieve in the house, then through the door and on the contained porch? Another option would be to put the toy on a fishing line, so it keeps in your control....if you don't want to set up chicken wire fencing to create a small contained space outside...roflol 

i found with jake the trick was to start with very small throws, and using the collar game (in crate games) i would hold him back, throw the toy a little ways and then say ready ? ready ? ready? and release the collar... "get it"

if the toy is on a line he can't run away with it. ...it can turn into a little fun game of tug and then a release command  sounds easy buuuuutttt....

:biggrin1:


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

hvapuppy2 said:


> i kind of know the feeling, but in a different way ha ha... jake won't retrieve anything but the ball...it has taken me some time to teach him to bring things back to me...it's like he did not understand that he was actually retrieving but rather just chasing the ball and then asking for me to throw it again.... does that make sense?
> 
> anyway, do you have a porch? maybe play retrieve in the house, then through the door and on the contained porch? Another option would be to put the toy on a fishing line, so it keeps in your control....if you don't want to set up chicken wire fencing to create a small contained space outside...roflol
> 
> ...


It DOESN'T sound easy, but is DOES sound like it's worth working on. It would be SO worth it if I could get him to reliably return a toy outdoors!<g>


----------

