# Anyone Skipped Training?



## Mojo's Mom (Jun 6, 2009)

Just out of curiosity....of course we're all supposed to have obedience trained dogs that will sit, down, off, leave it, heel, walk nicely on leash, come when called, etc., but I'm just curious how many on this forum have just let their dogs grow up without training.

I'd like to hear how it has worked out for you and for your dog and household.


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## moxie (Feb 6, 2008)

Wow, no response?


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

I'm not sure it's even possible to not train a dog if its living with you?? Surely the dog would catch onto something?? If it's a mill dog, then sure...

Why? Are you thinking of trying this out? lol

Ryan


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## MopTop Havanese (Sep 25, 2006)

None of mine have been to 'official' training like Petsmart etc- but I would never say they have had 'no' training- I have taught them everything they know! Ha! They know sit, down, wait, off, etc. They walk fine on a leash and are pretty well mannered, well except for the barking dance they give when someone comes to the door! :evil:


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

I'm with Ryan on this one... how can you have a dog and NOT train it? I'd think that he/she would be making your life pretty miserable. Kubrick has been to two obedience classes and one agility class and Hitch has been to one obedience class. I'm thinking of doing CGC with him, so I'll probably do at least one or two other classes with him soon.

I do want to add that I don't that the actual classes are necessary (ie you can train by yourself at home) but even though my dogs were usually top of their class so to speak - and I'm not trying to brag here, I really worked on obedience with them every day - I really think the time spent in the classroom helped me be able to control them in a more hectic situation where they might be less willing to listen to me. I have seen lots of people in obedience classes that never taught their dogs anything prior to taking said classes, so the class can be very motivating and/or necessary for some owners.


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## lcy_pt (Aug 17, 2007)

I can give you my two cents. :biggrin1:

The boys are almost one year old now and initially had training that I did at home with them. There wasn't an obedience school close to us that I felt was the right atmosphere for them. But although we walked them through our neighbourhood, their socialization with other dogs was minimal at best.

Since moving, I've found a fantastic training school and both boys are enrolled. I find that _I'm _the one being taught and small things pointed out to make the training sessions at home much smoother for all of us. I've discovered that I was unknowingly reinforcing unwanted behaviour.

I hope to enroll Seymour in agility when we're done and Harley will excel in frisbee tossing! Both boys will work towards certification as therapy dogs.

I think it really depends on your level of experience with training dogs. Although these guys are great for first time owners (which I am), it can only be beneficial to get some pointers to make living with them even better!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Lina said:


> I do want to add that I don't that the actual classes are necessary (ie you can train by yourself at home) but even though my dogs were usually top of their class so to speak - and I'm not trying to brag here, I really worked on obedience with them every day - I really think the time spent in the classroom helped me be able to control them in a more hectic situation where they might be less willing to listen to me.


Ditto. Kodi is GREAT at home or in the yard, because I work with him there several times a day. But I want him to be reliable and listen to me even in the face of a lot of competing stimuli. We get that at the training center. And I get tips on how to get and keep his attention better in those situations.

Also, it's important to me that Kodi grow up being happy to socialize with other dogs and people. This is one more opportunity for that to happen. He reacts much differently to the occasional adult dog he meets than he does to the puppies in his classes. He has really learned to _play_ with them.


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## Jill in Mich (Feb 24, 2008)

My last dog didn't have any training (didn't "sit", "down", etc on command) and yet was well behaved - could reliably walk off leash, didn't bark at people when they came to the door, etc. but was not well socialized with other dogs or children (probably a puppy mill breeder). Tess & Cody have both been through formal training classes. While they can follow commands, I'm not sure they're any better behaved than Gabby was. I do however think the training has been very beneficial to my understanding of their behavior and I will continue to attend training with both of them, will do so for any future dogs and would highly recommend it any other pet owners, especially those who have never had a dog before.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm not sure it's possible for a dog to live as a family member and not be trained...even if it is negative training. They pick up on your sounds and words. I think the person has to be trained as much as the dog in what and how to teach. It is also a matter of protection and safety for the dog to teach some things....like 'leave it' and 'drop it' and 'stay'. I think the basic commands are to make them a better family member. There's lots of information on the internet about training if you don't have a class...and I don't think it's always necessary to attend one. I do think it is necessary to socialize with all adults, kids, and dogs so they will not be fearful and become nippers....so using a leash is necessary for walks. I don't think I have ever thought about 'not' training a dog at all....and don't know how to go about that.  They will learn (train) and it's up to the owner to decide if that learning is good or bad.


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## LuckyOne (Sep 3, 2009)

Hi everyone,
I had three giant dogs and put them through obedience classes. They were a must. I remember most of the training (I'm getting old and today's my birthday BTW) I was able to teach my two new hav's sit on the first day. I am working on the bell at the door so they can let me know when they need to go out. One of them is afraid of the bell but he is also the one that will whine when he needs to go out. The other one is just content to go inside. They never soil their crate. Even from day one. They know many words now like: Kitchen, treat, outside, potty, inside, down, quiet, no and my favorite, good puppy. Havanese are so smart. Well one of mine is smarter than the other so I wonder if it is fair to the one that is a little "slow" If it weren't for his brother would he look like a genius?


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Mojo's mom, I know a Hav that was never trained... she knows no tricks, no sit, stay, etc, walks however she wants on a leash, and was never really potty trained as well. I could not live with a dog that way...but she is a very happy little dog who loves her mom and family and home and never strays far when off a leash. She does think she is the alpha and sometimes growls if you get to close to her mom or make her get off a couch or lap she is on. She has picked up NO if said in a serious tone, and "chicken" which works when you want her to come but other than that she is has simply been trained by the goings on in the home. 

Although I couldn't live that way, she does seem to have a total joy that is hard to describe. But if you are considering this for your family and no rules are set with Mojo I think you could find your self in situations that there could be a battle of wills especially with younger children in your house


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## SMARTY (Apr 19, 2007)

Mojo’s Mom are you asking for a survey of whose dog has had formal training? My Havanese have and I am sure they are not any better companions than many dogs that have never gone to classes. Classes can be for the dogs but mostly they are to teach the owner how to train.


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## marb42 (Oct 19, 2008)

I had to take Marble to obedience training and use a trainer at home because I have had so many issues with him. I think the most important thing is that you train them, whether it is in a class or at home. There are plenty of books and information online to assist with this so that you have a well trained and socialized dog.
Gina


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## Carefulove (Mar 20, 2009)

Bumi hasn't been to any puppy class. I do the training myself.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Tori has never attended a formal class of any kind. Yet, she has passed her CGC and Therapy Dog w/flying colors. She also has quite a repertoire of "tricks" she can do. Please understand, I am *not* some wonderful trainer w/a lot of experience. I was just fortunate to get a _very_ smart dog and also blessed to have Amanda living near me when Tori was little and ready for training :biggrin1:


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## letter4tony (Jan 30, 2009)

Mochi is currently enrolled in Puppy classes that Lina referred me to a bit back. We also use her previous vet lol (another story). In any case, it has helped us very little, but then again we're only on the third week. The first two were little to no help as from the time we registered to the time the class started, we learned almost everything we had went over the first two classes.

We also were able to socialize him in puppy play groups - his first month was dreadful, but at almost 6 months, he's the most outspoken dog of the group.

IMO, I think personal training sessions for one week are better than the group lessons for 6 weeks but that's just me. They teach you about basic stuff that is literally what we train the puppy to do every minute of the day.

The only reasonw hy I would do the puppy class is if you wanted to go into the later stages of training like agility etc, if they require you to do so in an orderly fashion. Mochi can do sit down pushups, and spin, and speak, but he still takes my dress socks and runs aroudn the island counter until my gf and I can tag team him and get it back.


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2009)

I'm actually going to begin a puppy training class next week--without my puppy. I don't get my puppy until mid-October, but the classes start next week. So, I asked if I could come anyway, and the trainer said yes. I figured I needed the training as much, if not more, than my new puppy. It's been about 8 years since I've had a dog, and I've never gone to any "official" training classes--we just trained our dogs on our own. I'm actually really excited about going to the classes--with and without my new puppy.


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## Renee (Mar 27, 2008)

Growing up, we had outside farm dogs that were never trained. They were merely pets. We played with them, but we didn't teach them how to sit our stay or anything like that. Looking back, they were the dumbest dogs on earth. I'm a firm believer that your dog is as smart as you let them be.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

I took McKenna to obedience training when she was 4 years old. I just thought it would be fun. Come to find out, she knew almost all the commands already. The only new ones were "wait" and "leave it". I had hoped to work on her greeting of other dogs on leash but this isn't a part of basic obedience. I took her to intermediate where we did work on it and in class, she aced it. Out in public though......not so much!
Sedona had also been taught the basic commands so I saved the $125 and didn't take her. All my dogs know sit, down, stay, and how to walk on a leash. 
You can definitely do all the basic obedience training on your own without paying for classes.


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## Kathie (Jul 31, 2008)

We don't have any classes in our area but fortunately, we've had dogs for forty years so I pretty much know what to do. I can't say that we've done much more than the minimum with Abby since she wouldn't even come to us the first year we had her so we've had to take things very slowly! She knows a few basic commands and walks well on a leash. We have very young grandchildren who she loves and is such a mellow personality that we just haven't had any major problems with behavior other than not coming to us. She is getting much better socialized every day, though. It just seems like a light bulb went off in her head recently and she loves *everyone* all of a sudden.......lol
Back to subject - I did take my very first miniature poodle to obedience classes and I think learning how to teach them yourself is the secret. You don't have to go to a formal class to learn it, though, but I do think it helps the owner to take it at least once!


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## Rita Nelson (Jul 13, 2009)

Tucker has just completed Level I obedience class and is enrolled for Level II. He LOVES the interaction with other dogs and the trainers. We are going to All Dogs Gym & Inn owned and started by Gail Fisher who is big on clicker training. We find that they are so helpful, not only with training, but any issue your dog my have.


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## Evye's Mom (Dec 16, 2008)

I took a basic obedience class with Evye but did not with Bentley. I found it more of a class to teach you how to train your dog. Bentley is better behaved than Evye although Evye walks much nicer on a leash. I am considering another class with her because we don't have a lot of opportunity to dog socialize and Evye is becoming dog shy. Our house is pretty quiet for the most part with just adults living here so I like having the G-kids over to keep them accustomed to noise and commotion. They love, love the kids.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

I agree it would be impossible for me to have dog and not teach it. Every time you react to the dog, it teaches them something either good or bad!

I've trained basic commands and a couple tricks myself but I aso enjoy a class now and again. Classes are fun to do together with yuor dog. They can get you re-motivated to do some training and they're a great way to let our dog interract with other dogs. 
Both boys had Puppy Kindergarten. Rufus learned how to socialize well with other dogs, Marley not so much.  Now Marley is a year older and he is currently in a Saturday morning training class that's been awesum! We're just learning some basic skills--not obedience. Things like how to be calm in a group setting with other dogs! :clap2: Also how to pass by other dogs on a lead and not react. I'm loving the class and I'm so excited with the training that I taught Marley to roll over this week at home! :cheer2:


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I think this all depends on the trainer as you can see some found it a waste of time. One thing that I find most valuable about working is having the distractions of other dogs, the socialization of the other dogs and people and chaos, etc. All of my dogs have been in classes at some point in their lives. I think Isabelle's first class was when she was 3 or 4 years old though. We were puppy school drop outs cause I had a bad experience. But Dash started puppy classes the same week I got him. He was socialized with other dogs and people and this is invaluable in my opinion even if most of his learning came at home.


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

I have to be the most inexperienced dog owner ever. My daughter got a Yorkie while she was still living with me and I was often KoKo's caretaker. She knew to whine when she needed to potty but since she was my daughter's dog I didn't get involved in the training. When my daughter moved out on her own and took KoKo I was so lonely. Several years later I adopted Murphy but I was very worried that I would never be able to train him because I never did it before. The house training was quite a challenge and he still has an occasional "on purpose". Because of the great people on the forum I was able to train Murphy to sit, shake paws, high five, up (on his hind paws), stay, drop it. He is very reliable off leash. He is so smart! Everything that I worked with him on he got in 2 or 3 repetitions. No formal training but he is a wonderfully behaved little guy. He sits by our shop door and when customers come in they are so surprised that he doesn't bark but instead greets them with a friendly tail wag!


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## murphymoesmamma (Apr 1, 2009)

LuckyOne said:


> Hi everyone,
> I had three giant dogs and put them through obedience classes. They were a must. I remember most of the training (I'm getting old and today's my birthday BTW) I was able to teach my two new hav's sit on the first day. I am working on the bell at the door so they can let me know when they need to go out. One of them is afraid of the bell but he is also the one that will whine when he needs to go out. The other one is just content to go inside. They never soil their crate. Even from day one. They know many words now like: Kitchen, treat, outside, potty, inside, down, quiet, no and my favorite, good puppy. Havanese are so smart. Well one of mine is smarter than the other so I wonder if it is fair to the one that is a little "slow" If it weren't for his brother would he look like a genius?


Hav a very Happy Birthday Lucky One!


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

We took Scooter to a puppy class but found that we had already taught him almost everything they were teaching. IMO that class was a waste of $ for us. We haven't taken Murphy but we work with both dogs daily in small ways. They sit and wait for food, they always have to work for a treat...well, almost always, they sit, high five, down, stay, leave it, trade, etc. I know they're capable of learning much, much more but I also think it will come with time. I can tell them to go to a certain one of the kids' rooms by name and they'll do it every time!


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## Eva (Jun 20, 2008)

I've done all of Todd's training myself..
I kept "meaning" to sign him up for puppy classes and it never happened..he's not perfect by any means (his recall is awful...well, unless you yell "chicken" at him..lol) but he has mastered sit, down, lay down, leave it, wait, back up, go to bed, off, outside, waits nicely at the door and walks pretty well on leash(unless there's another dog that he "needs" to meet)
There are more tricks that he knows and other things that I've missed but those are the basics...he's extremely smart and will do about anything for a piece of chicken. :wink:
I'd like to do some formal classes with him at some point but feel like he's pretty well behaved for the most part.


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

I might be able to give you some advice on this one with my experience....

Casper, my first hav went to puppy classes, and received his canine good citizen certificate (akc class).

Missy, was my show dog and I got confused in the training.... and she just had show dog training classes. - Just walking around the show ring, NO Sitting.

Casper minds our commands much, much better than Missy, who we taught later at home most of the regular dog commands.

I would recommend classes, they really learn better with a good instructor, and good dog class.


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## Mojo's Mom (Jun 6, 2009)

Okay, I ended up with a lot of you assuming some things, and I probably didn't make myself clear enough in what I was asking.

I know very well the value of obedience training, and I know very well that the dog is "training" every minute of every day, regardless of what the owner is doing. 

Mojo is in obedience class right now, and had puppy kindergarten before that. I work with him at home as much as I have time for, but I have a lot on my plate, more than I expected to have at this point in Mojo's life, and I haven't been able to go at the training as seriously as I'd hoped. I try to work with him on sit, down, stay, and come at least a little every day. He definitely knows sit and down, although he doesn't do them consistently on command, but he's only five months old.

I walk him at least a mile in the morning and again in the afternoon, and at least one of those walks involves controlled leash walking, rather than free on the flexi-lead (I do that, too). He knows he has to sit before he goes through a door, for instance. He has to sit for a treat, etc. At least twice a week his walks are at parks where there are other people and dogs, as well as downtown in our small "city". He's very well socialized with other dogs and people, has been playing with puppies and adult dogs regularly since we brought him home, and he was already well socialized with the breeder before that. He's socialized to children, from my two year old granddaughter who lives with us.

He does not, no way, no how, come when called, and that's my hardest thing. I know WHAT to do with him, I know HOW to train, don't even need the obedience class we're in, I just don't have the time to really work at it the way I'd hoped. I'm hoping he'll come out okay anyway.

Naturally, he is potty trained, long since, and he crate trained very well and stays at home well in his crate when I go out, which I've never done for more than three hours.

What I meant to ask was, has anyone not done formal obedience training with their dogs, and only fairly minimal command training of any kind, and how well has it worked for you?


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

I think you could be totally fine especially if you are taking steps to make sure some of the things you get as a bonus in class are received some where else-distractions like down town, etc. I personally use formal training for getting over issues (Dora had big fears and this made us bond and her become so much more stable) and competition readiness(obedience titles) and I personally have fun in classes and I am still learning a lot. But Isabelle didn't take any classes until she was 3 years old and she is a great dog (just a bit overzealous). 

I think the only manners my dogs have really learned is how to ignore other dogs and people (Dash is still working on this part though!) in a class setting even if they look like so much fun or when there is loud noises, etc. If you are struggling with time, just do it in short burst, I honestly think they learn the best this way anyway. I hardly ever have training sessions that last more than 5 mins. I think when you go to class you are there to learn, not your dog. Even just work with things they know and throw in some new and make it a game and make it fun. I think the fun is especially key in recall. But definitely, don't panic, some of the most well mannered dogs have never been in classes


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

I think you will be totally fine too. Just keep working as you can on the things that are most important to you with high value treats. And know that if Mojo isn't reliable coming he can never be off leash unless fenced in. I was told by a trainer that "come" comes with time and age. My boys come much better now than when they were a year (they are almost 3 and 4) But we are still afraid to let them off leash. But what they do know is "Wait" and "leave it" and that has saved me when they slipped out the front door. 

I really think you are doing fine. Enjoy your boy.


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## mckennasedona (Feb 20, 2007)

> What I meant to ask was, has anyone not done formal obedience training with their dogs, and only fairly minimal command training of any kind, and how well has it worked for you?[/QUOTE
> 
> I have never done any formal obedience training with any pet prior to McKenna (when she was 4). I never really even taught anything other than sit and stay and all my previous pets were happy and fun and did great. I don't know if they were just natually well behaved or what but they all did well around people and other dogs. A couple of them could even be totally trusted off leash without any training. They just didn't want to run off. I am happy to say that Fritz, Gypsy, Casie, Mindy, Maggie, and Charlie were wonderful pets without any formal training and minimal command training (they all knew sit and stay) Some of these were childhood pets so we kids did try to teach a couple of tricks but we were kids so we had no idea what we were doing but we managed "High Five" and holding the treat on the nose for a bit.....


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Dog training is a personal choice. Some go to all lengths. Some choose not to train to any extent. I only have a problem with people who do not do what it takes to keep the dog from going to the pound. In order to truly enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely train him to become semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog. - Edward Hoagland


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## ScarlettBlue (Sep 3, 2009)

I didn't give Zipper formal training. He's very quick to learn, like most Havanese. And even though he is three years old now, I am always coming up with new things for him to learn. The "training" sessions are good for him. When our financial circumstances improve (go back to normal) I want to get him involved with agility training. Not to compete but purely for his enjoyment. He loves to please and is well behaved, well, except he also does a barking dance when someone comes to the door, but then again, being our Early Alert System is one of his jobs.


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## Mojo's Mom (Jun 6, 2009)

I got a little discouraged at our first obedience class. It's made up of Mojo, a hyperactive Puggle, an Aussie and a Goldendoodle, all puppies. The Aussie is a month younger than Mojo and does absolutely great. The Goldendoodle does pretty well, the Puggle is kind of all over the place and Mojo can concentrate on nothing but his desire to play with the other dogs. He couldn't have cared less about the treats I had and would hardly do any of the sits and downs that he does pretty reliably at home.

I had read in a Havanese book that my Havanese would probably be the star of his obedience class, and he was far from that! I think the problem is that he has had so many wild play sessions with other dogs and puppies as the bulk of his contact with other dogs, that he has no idea how to be calm around another dog. When he meets dogs out in town, everybody on leashes, he just goes bananas pulling on the leash to get to them, barks at them in frustration if he can't play with them or can't get to them at all for some reason.

Now tonight, in the house, he was doing nice sits and sit stays, and downs, but that will only happen in an environment free of distractions.

From letter4tony, "Mochi can do sit down pushups, and spin, and speak, but he still takes my dress socks and runs aroudn the island counter until my gf and I can tag team him and get it back." THANK YOU for that, I laughed so hard, because Mojo is Mochi's brother, and we do the tag team tackle with Mojo all too often. They are still puppies, after all. I know you should never chase them, but sometimes they have something that you just HAVE to get back. 


__________________


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Mojo's Mom said:


> They are still puppies, after all....


Mojo's Mom. I think that just sums up your concerns perfectly. How old is Mojo? the fact that he does these things with you at home means he is learning. It takes an older dog to be obedient with distractions... but if you keep working on with him, it will pay off. I am jealous that Mojo wants to play with the other in his class... My frustration with our classes was that both my boys hid behind my chair. We went through the whole 8 weeks of puppy kindergarden with Jasper that way, so we could learn And hoped, outgoing Cash would be different, but when he hid behind our chair we opted out and got our money back and taught him and socialized him on our own.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Missy said:


> Mojo's Mom. I think that just sums up your concerns perfectly. How old is Mojo? the fact that he does these things with you at home means he is learning. It takes an older dog to be obedient with distractions... but if you keep working on with him, it will pay off. I am jealous that Mojo wants to play with the other in his class... My frustration with our classes was that both my boys hid behind my chair. We went through the whole 8 weeks of puppy kindergarden with Jasper that way, so we could learn And hoped, outgoing Cash would be different, but when he hid behind our chair we opted out and got our money back and taught him and socialized him on our own.


Missy, Both my boys did that, but Rufus eventually got over it! Marley was so embarassing in Kindergarten. He hid onder chairs and growle at the puppies and sometimes people picked up their things and moved away from us! :redface: Now he's a year older and I have him in a class with older dogs and he's doing great! I think our Hav's might mature slower than other breeds especially the larger dogs. You should try another class now with your boys. Maybe they will do better now that they're older.


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