# Clicker Training



## MicheleS (May 9, 2011)

We are starting a puppy basics class this evening using clicker training. Cappy is 4 months old and LOVES other people, dogs, and new situations. He also just recently got neutered using the laser (has vet clearance to go to the class).

I've been doing some training with him at home and he's done great with sit and stay. He's already learned "come" by us playing the 'hide and seek' game with treats. Even the little girl next door can get him to come right away after I taught her the right way to call him so it sounds like the same command we use.

My question is -does anyone have any experience with clicker training? Should I train this way since he seems to be doing so well without it? Some say training will go faster with the clicker? Also, I'm nervous that if he's in a class with a bunch of "wild indian" puppies he'll lose the happy-go-lucky attitude he has now with other people/kids and dogs. 

Thoughts?? Thanks!


----------



## Divaskychick (May 18, 2011)

Thanks for posting. I'm interested to see the responses, too!


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

clicker training is an excellent way of teaching your dog. Classes are excellent too. Go for it. He can never meet enough dogs. The more the better. But it's up to you to be vigilant about problem dogs. Generally puppy classes are quite safe. Never heard of any dog getting seriously injured. But if you have a shy dog ,it should be a gradual process and if the trainer is good , this can be easily accommodated. 
If you want to learn clicker training check out Karen Pryor's site.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree with Dave completely. I do a LOT of training with Kodi, and we often, but not always, use a clicker. For many things, dogs learn much faster using a clicker than any other way. The clicker works so well for two reasons. First, dogs don't have the language centers in their brain that we do. The clicker noise registers in a more primitive part of the brain, and therefore the dog registers the sound more quickly. Second, if you use a clicker well, you can more accurately "mark" the behavior you are looking for, and then follow it up with a treat. 

In some instances, clicker training doesn't work particularly well. "Click" usually means the end of the behavior, so when teaching the long down, a clicker can't be used to encourage your dog to maintain the stay. Nor is it particularly useful when running an agility course. You might want to encourage your dog with a "good boy" after a well-done obstacle, but you wouldn't want to click and have them stop running, looking for a treat!

Another thing many of us do that like clicker training is to establish a "marker word". This needs to be something that you ONLY use as a marker (in place of the clicker) and needs to be something you can say quickly... so no more than once syllable. The word I use is "Yesss!", but you can choose anything you want. Having a marker word that your dog is familiar with means that you can use it spontaneously, where ever you are, whether you remembered to put your clicker in your pocket or not.

I think clicker training is a GREAT tool, and you should CERTAINLY take advantage of your class to learn how to use it. But it's not like a religion. (well, I guess it is for some people:biggrin1 it's another REALLY useful tool to put in your "training tool kit" to use when it is helpful for you, or put aside at times when something else works better for you.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

good points Karen. Even amongst the positive reinforcement based trainers, many like lure-reward, and many like clicker training. And just as many use both. They both work well and it's good to use both .But there's no doubt they're both dog friendly, and easy to learn for both owner and dog.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> good points Karen. Even amongst the positive reinforcement based trainers, many like lure-reward, and many like clicker training. And just as many use both. They both work well and it's good to use both .But there's no doubt they're both dog friendly, and easy to learn for both owner and dog.


Luring, though, needs to be faded pretty darned quickly, or it turns into a crutch. I'd prefer to capture/shape new behavior with a clicker if at all possible, and only use luring when it's not possible to shape the behavior you're looking for. The behaviors I've used luring for have ended up being the hardest to really solidify. (of course, in fairness, they were also the hardest to get, or I wouldn't have resorted to luring!)


----------



## MicheleS (May 9, 2011)

Thanks for your responses. The class went great - Cappy was the star of the class! She went over how to use the clicker and what not to do with it. Cappy was the only puppy in the room who could sit and come already so he had a great time "performing" and getting his treats - hope the click is starting to register too  We will practice focusing his attention on us (the other skill she went over) this week, although he's pretty good at that too. I'm nervous that he'll pick up a barking habit there as most of the other dogs bark A LOT. The room has half walls in it and when a dog got barking too much she asked the owner to take the dog behind the half wall where they could still see her and practice the skills, but the dogs couldn't see the other dogs.

I'd love to start agility training with Cappy. There's a puppy class that starts next month. Karen - do you think 5 months is too young?


----------



## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

To start with, look up "loading the clicker". He needs to understand what it means before going any farther. It's great for teaching tricks. Pam uses it a lot for new puppies. When visitors come, Pam can do a demonstration by teaching Nike a new trick in about 20 seconds. I think it helps a lot to get someone to show you who is really good at it. It's really simple once you understand the timing, and have the value of the click loaded for the dog.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

MicheleS said:


> Thanks for your responses. The class went great - Cappy was the star of the class! She went over how to use the clicker and what not to do with it. Cappy was the only puppy in the room who could sit and come already so he had a great time "performing" and getting his treats - hope the click is starting to register too  We will practice focusing his attention on us (the other skill she went over) this week, although he's pretty good at that too. I'm nervous that he'll pick up a barking habit there as most of the other dogs bark A LOT. The room has half walls in it and when a dog got barking too much she asked the owner to take the dog behind the half wall where they could still see her and practice the skills, but the dogs couldn't see the other dogs.
> 
> I'd love to start agility training with Cappy. There's a puppy class that starts next month. Karen - do you think 5 months is too young?


I hate to tell you this, but Cappy will probably start to bark sooner or later, with or without other dogs around.<g> I can't tell you how many people on the forum (including me) start with "quiet puppies" who eventually find their voices.:biggrin1: That's OK. It's just an opportunity to learn to use their voice appropriately. In the beginning, it was frustrating to figure out when Kodi needed to go out, because he wouldn't bark. Then he went through an adolescent phase of "demand barking", and then finally settled down to where he is now. He barks to go out and potty, and he barks when someone is at the door. But he stops when I tell him to, and I LIKE the fact that he alerts me to someone at the door!

As far as agility is concerned, 5 months is ABSOLUTELY too young for anything that puts any strain on his joints. ABSOLUTELY no jumping or weaves until he is at least a year. (if you decide to try a puppy agility class, be very firm on this. It's your puppy, and don't be pressured into doing something that could shorten or even prevent his career later) Also, NO sequences which require tight turns or torquing joints. (Susan Garrett doesn't start sequencing with her dogs until they are 13-16 months old)

"Jump bump" grids (these are half round PVC laid directly on the floor) are fine at 5 months, and introducing him to contacts is is fine. But any "agility" you do with a puppy before 1 year is mostly for your fun, not for developing his skills.

If you are SERIOUS about doing agility with him, spend your first year perfecting his obedience skills. Get a solid stay for a lead out. Make sure he will run with you on either side. A wobble board (this is a round piece of plywood with a half a tennis ball stuck to the middle of the bottom, so that when the pup stands on the board, it moves) is great for developing balance, and is a wonderful introduction to something moving under them. (needed later for the teeter) Also use this time to teach targeting, with his nose, front feet and back feet. Many dogs have trouble on equipment because they don't know where their feet are. A great exercise is to put a ladder on the ground and get the puppy to trot through it, lifting their feet over the rungs.

Also work on building drive in your pup... get him to enjoy a vigorous game of tug, but release the moment you ask him to. Teach strong drive both toward you AND (harder) away from you. Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" is wonderful for teaching this, and can be done even with a puppy. When your pup is approaching his first birthday, buy him her "One Jump" video as a birthday present to both of you!:biggrin1:

As someone who is training her first agility dog, I'll tell you right now that teaching them the obstacles is the EASY part for a novice agility trainer... you'll get that part done pretty quickly if you have a good trainer to work with and a willing dog with good foundation skills. THEN you'll spend a LONG time getting YOUR HANDLING skills to the point where you can get him successfully, and consistently around courses without making mistakes.


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

krandall said:


> Luring, though, needs to be faded pretty darned quickly, or it turns into a crutch. I'd prefer to capture/shape new behavior with a clicker if at all possible, and only use luring when it's not possible to shape the behavior you're looking for. The behaviors I've used luring for have ended up being the hardest to really solidify. (of course, in fairness, they were also the hardest to get, or I wouldn't have resorted to luring!)


 Yeah Karen with any reward based training the reward has to be fazed out early. It's the biggest mistake people make. Many will argue ,including Dr. Dunbar that lure reward for certain commands is the simpler faster method if done right. Most trainers use both. And like Dr. Dunbar says..."Anyone may master the science of lure/reward training within seconds. However, it can take a lifetime to master the art.". Clicker people can be the worst at not fazing out the rewards and putting the dog on an intermittent reinforcement schedule. They both work well ,it's up to the owner as is usually the case. Here's a video .


----------



## wavlngth (Feb 1, 2011)

Dave,
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing. With our second Hav, Ted (the kids call him Teddy), we are using clicker training. He is doing great so far and he doing great with sit and down. Now onto stay. We have, however, used treats after every click. We definitely need to take away some of the rewards.

Our first Havanese, Poppy, can do many tricks ... sit, down, stay (unless there are other dogs around), dance, roll over, spin, shake, and come (she is getting much better with come after I started clicker training and using dried liver as a reward). The issue with Poppy, is she is 95% accurate with a reward in hand. And probably 70% accurate without reward. I wish I would have followed this advice earlier with Poppy, but it's not too late. I really like the idea of 'life rewards'.

Tim


----------



## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

wavlngth said:


> Dave,
> Excellent video. Thanks for sharing. With our second Hav, Ted (the kids call him Teddy), we are using clicker training. He is doing great so far and he doing great with sit and down. Now onto stay. We have, however, used treats after every click. We definitely need to take away some of the rewards.
> 
> Our first Havanese, Poppy, can do many tricks ... sit, down, stay (unless there are other dogs around), dance, roll over, spin, shake, and come (she is getting much better with come after I started clicker training and using dried liver as a reward). The issue with Poppy, is she is 95% accurate with a reward in hand. And probably 70% accurate without reward. I wish I would have followed this advice earlier with Poppy, but it's not too late. I really like the idea of 'life rewards'.
> ...


Good for you Tim, it sounds like you're on the right track. Do check out Karen Pryor's site though. It's the best.


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

wavlngth said:


> Dave,
> Excellent video. Thanks for sharing. With our second Hav, Ted (the kids call him Teddy), we are using clicker training. He is doing great so far and he doing great with sit and down. Now onto stay. We have, however, used treats after every click. We definitely need to take away some of the rewards.
> 
> Our first Havanese, Poppy, can do many tricks ... sit, down, stay (unless there are other dogs around), dance, roll over, spin, shake, and come (she is getting much better with come after I started clicker training and using dried liver as a reward). The issue with Poppy, is she is 95% accurate with a reward in hand. And probably 70% accurate without reward. I wish I would have followed this advice earlier with Poppy, but it's not too late. I really like the idea of 'life rewards'.
> ...


One thing you need to be very careful with, however, is that a click absolutely ALWAYS means a treat is coming, or it completely loses it's meaning and value for the dog. You certainly can and should start fading the food reinforcement, BUT that means that you don't click, either. NEVER click if you are not going to follow it IMMEDIATELY with a reward.

The clicker is most useful for learning new behaviors. Once the dog knows the behavior, you don't need to click anymore, unless you are trying to refine it for some reason. For instance, for formal obedience, you need the dog to "set up" at your left side, with his shoulder aligned with the seam of your pants, and absolutely parallel to you. Let's say that when you ask the dog to set up, the dog is coming to your side consistently, but is sometimes crooked. In that case, you would only click/reward the straight sits.


----------



## wavlngth (Feb 1, 2011)

krandall said:


> One thing you need to be very careful with, however, is that a click absolutely ALWAYS means a treat is coming, or it completely loses it's meaning and value for the dog. You certainly can and should start fading the food reinforcement, BUT that means that you don't click, either. NEVER click if you are not going to follow it IMMEDIATELY with a reward.
> 
> The clicker is most useful for learning new behaviors. Once the dog knows the behavior, you don't need to click anymore, unless you are trying to refine it for some reason. For instance, for formal obedience, you need the dog to "set up" at your left side, with his shoulder aligned with the seam of your pants, and absolutely parallel to you. Let's say that when you ask the dog to set up, the dog is coming to your side consistently, but is sometimes crooked. In that case, you would only click/reward the straight sits.


Thanks for the tips. I will also check out Karen Pryor's website. As for clicking and not rewarding. I did know that, but after the 2nd or 3rd day, my wife was clicking but then decided she didn't get the behavior she wanted so she didn't treat. I "politely" corrected her!

I wonder if clicker training works on kids too?


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

wavlngth said:


> Thanks for the tips. I will also check out Karen Pryor's website. As for clicking and not rewarding. I did know that, but after the 2nd or 3rd day, my wife was clicking but then decided she didn't get the behavior she wanted so she didn't treat. I "politely" corrected her!
> 
> I wonder if clicker training works on kids too?


My kids grew up on "1 2 3 Magic!":biggrin1:


----------



## wavlngth (Feb 1, 2011)

krandall said:


> My kids grew up on "1 2 3 Magic!":biggrin1:


My kids are growing up on 1, 2, 2 1/4, 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, ...


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

wavlngth said:


> My kids are growing up on 1, 2, 2 1/4, 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, ...


Nope. Mine each let me get to "3" once or twice when they were VERY young. They learned that I meant what I said. From that point on, I never made it past "2".:biggrin1: actually, it worked so well that they were in their teens and I was still using it... Then realized that I had NO IDEA what I'd do if they let me get to "3". I realized that at that age, a change in tactics was in order.:biggrin1:


----------



## MicheleS (May 9, 2011)

Thanks for the info about agility training Karen. I'll keep it in mind as Cappy gets older. We really want to do the companion dog training to take him into the nursing home. He has a great personality for it. Second puppy class coming up - we've been practicing. I really enjoy doing the training - Cappy loves doing it. He learned the 'lay down' command within a week of short training sessions. So, at 15 weeks he's got sit, come, lay down, and is able to focus on my face for a good 20 seconds. We're still working on stay - he grumbles and complains like a little kid when I give the command for that one LOL! He really is the funniest little guy!


----------



## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

MicheleS said:


> Thanks for the info about agility training Karen. I'll keep it in mind as Cappy gets older. We really want to do the companion dog training to take him into the nursing home. He has a great personality for it. Second puppy class coming up - we've been practicing. I really enjoy doing the training - Cappy loves doing it. He learned the 'lay down' command within a week of short training sessions. So, at 15 weeks he's got sit, come, lay down, and is able to focus on my face for a good 20 seconds. We're still working on stay - he grumbles and complains like a little kid when I give the command for that one LOL! He really is the funniest little guy!


There are many, MANY competition obedience dogs who NQ on the stays. It's one of the hardest things to really confirm. Keep it fun for him and don't expect too much, too soon.

Also, just so you're prepared, MANY puppies backslide in a lot of areas during adolescence. At times it can feel like two steps forward, one step back. But he'll come around again as he begins to mature and settle down. I know I was dismayed when Kodi started to back slide on things I'd thought he had down cold. But I learned that this is really more common than not with puppies!


----------



## Atticus (May 17, 2011)

Wow great advise you guys! I clicker train too, and agree with all you said. I had already trained dogs before I started with a clicker which I think helped me to understand it. People absolutely use it and luring too long. It is most helpful I think for complex tricks. I have not trained a PUPPY in years. I do have a question about tricks for puppies, spins,sit up,stand up,back up,etc ( I did freestyle with my last dog) Are any of these not good for his growing body? I agree with the too young for Agility comments but was wondering about other tricks. He does some of these behaviors on his own but I haven't really started training them. Needless to say I'm pretty busy just working on the basics! Happy "threadstarter" (sorry forget who and don't know how to go back with out loosing this)is taking a class the right class/trainer is SO important!


----------



## nancyf (Nov 6, 2007)

[. Here's a video .





[/QUOTE]

This was a great video that was packed with useful information. He's got a good easy-listening voice.


----------

