# Toby 5 Month update and Tear Stain Removal attempt



## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

Hello all,
Toby is now 5 months old and doing great! He is healthy, energetic, happy and overall has integrated with our family wonderfully! I wanted to share a "Fresh out of the bath" photo with you as well as a "real time" tear stain product trial and review.Here is Toby:










As you can see, Toby is still battling the tear stains. He eats Orijen Puppy dry food mixed with Merrick's canned food, both grain free and purchased from Natural Paw's. While picking up food yesterday, I asked their recommendation on a safe and natural stain removal product, they swear buy a product called "No Stains Fur Me". Here is a picture of the container:










I am going to give Toby is first dose right now with his lunch, I will try to snap a daily picture of him and keep y'all updated. Wish us luck!


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

This is a great idea. I would love to follow his progress. What is the active ingredient in this product? Good luck!


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I just looked it up! Happy it is all natural and very curious to see if it works. I won't give my guys the antibiotic type, but if this stuff works, I will try it!


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## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

Doh! I'm sorry I meant to include the ingredients, I am on the Road right now, so I will have to give you that info in a little bit (so no one else has to look it up). Like mentioned, it is all natural (olive oil grape root and something else I believe) and it cost around 20 bucks.


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## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

The active ingredients are as follows:
Olive Leaf Extract
Pau d'Arco
Vitamin C
Oregon Grape Root
Exclzyme Pet

Inactive Ingredients:
Chicken Flavor (Natural)
rice concentrate
Stevia

Also, here is a better picture of the stains we are working with:


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## Ruth4Havs (May 13, 2013)

I don't see much of a difference, but you will have to be patient.:violin:


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## whimsy (Apr 3, 2010)

hope it works for ypu!!....what is Pau d'Arco and Exclzyme Pet, and Stevia?
Whimsy has the same sort of problem.


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## rdanielle (Sep 2, 2008)

This works, might take a few times. I put it on let it sit for several minutes before rinsing. The longer the better. https://www.iodogs.com/p-390-brighter-than-white-cloud-shampoo.aspx


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## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

Ruth4Havs - no worries, that picture was taken about 2 hours after his first dose. I posted the second picture because he was completely dry (the first picture was fresh out of the bath wet). I will try to post daily pictures.
Whimsy - Pau d'Arco is a Bark extract from an American tree called the Tabebuia impetiginosa tree I believe. Exclzyme PET is a multi enzyme supplement common in many wines. Stevia is a plant whose leaves are used as a natural sweetner, the main benefit of the stevia is its abilities to mimic antibacterial medicines.


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## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

rdanielle - my goal is to treat the source of the staining, not fight the stain itself. But I will definitely keep this in mind if this doesn't work. As far as treating the actual stains, wiping with warm water once a day has proven to work pretty well for us. Thanks for the recommendation!


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## Tia (Nov 28, 2012)

great thread. looking forward to see how it goes.


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## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

Surprisingly, I DID notice a slight difference on day two, for one, the tear stains in the picture below are slightly faded, plus the "Wet" area in the corner of his eyes is gone.










Another bonus, Toby's coat is shiner today, so far, I'm impressed.










I'll keep you all updated as the days go on. Let me know any feedback or questions you may have.

Thanks,
Mike


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

i had someone tell me that if you feed your dog tomatoes it will clear up the yeast that causes tear staining. I haven't looked it up yet. maddie and zoey have black so you cant see if its stained. But zoey has staining by her mouth from her saliva.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Okay i looked up the tomato remedy and couldn't find anything but I came across this.
Apple Cider Vinegar
Like white vinegar, apple cider vinegar will raise your dog's pH when added to her water. Apple cider vinegar can also be used in your dog's food for a similar result. Add one teaspoon of apple cider vinegar to food or water for small dogs and one tablespoon of apple cider vinegar to food or water for medium to large dogs. In addition to its pH-changing properties, however, apple cider vinegar can also be added to your dog's final rinse water following her bath. Once your dog's rinse water runs clear, pour a 50/50 mixture of water and apple cider vinegar over her, followed by another rinse. This mixture will act as a natural flea remedy, reducing any staining that your dog may have through contact with fleas. Take care to avoid your dog's eyes, however, since vinegar will cause her eyes to sting.
I've been using the ACV for fleas and it works! i think i'll see if I can get Zoeys mouth white. They also say good quality food and watch out for the red dies in food.


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## acbove (Apr 1, 2013)

I'm new here, and just checked in because I'm also frustrated with our sweet Tessa's tear stains. She's 10 mos now and so pretty but for her red-brown fur around her eyes. So thank you for the recommendation of "No Stains Fur Me. I will order it tonight. There was another one that was also all natural but seemed a little pricey at $49 per small bottle so I look forward to trying this one first. Thanks again and I will also let you know how it works. Tessa's Mom

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> Okay i looked up the tomato remedy and couldn't find anything but I came across this.
> Apple Cider Vinegar
> Like white vinegar, apple cider vinegar will raise your dog's pH when added to her water. Apple cider vinegar can also be used in your dog's food for a similar result. Add one teaspoon of apple cider vinegar to food or water for small dogs and one tablespoon of apple cider vinegar to food or water for medium to large dogs. In addition to its pH-changing properties, however, apple cider vinegar can also be added to your dog's final rinse water following her bath. Once your dog's rinse water runs clear, pour a 50/50 mixture of water and apple cider vinegar over her, followed by another rinse. This mixture will act as a natural flea remedy, reducing any staining that your dog may have through contact with fleas. Take care to avoid your dog's eyes, however, since vinegar will cause her eyes to sting.
> I've been using the ACV for fleas and it works! i think i'll see if I can get Zoeys mouth white. They also say good quality food and watch out for the red dies in food.


Suzi, I know you are just quoting something you read on the internet, but i have to comment on this. I have NO idea whether vinegar of any sort can help with staining or not. I CAN tell you, for absolute certain, that it will NOT raise pH. Vinegar is an acid. (which means, if anything, it would lower pH) When I read something that is so wrong from a scientific standpoint, I question the other parts of it. Keep in mind that there is a lot of nonsense on the internet.


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Maybe the vinegar helps balance the ph levels. I found a product that will take the staining away. But that's not solving the problem. And I would much rather try something simple like the ACV than give antibiotics. And a good healthy diet. I have heard from several that when they switched to raw the whole tear staining thing went away. 
Is your new product applied to the hair or is it eaten?


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## Suzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I just looked at maddies beard and her new growth is coming in very cream with no red. I switch food about 40 days ago. I've never had the sisters ph levels checked. I have always given tap water. There are also other factors to check like tear duct problems. Anyway I hope your new product works.:dance:


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> Maybe the vinegar helps balance the ph levels. I found a product that will take the staining away. But that's not solving the problem. And I would much rather try something simple like the ACV than give antibiotics. And a good healthy diet. I have heard from several that when they switched to raw the whole tear staining thing went away.
> Is your new product applied to the hair or is it eaten?


Well, you're absolutely right there! ACV certainly can't hurt them, and using antibiotics inappropriately definitely can!

I've heard some say that a raw diet can help too. (but I've heard so MANY possible remedies, it's hard to keep them all straight) I'm just glad that Kodi, like your girls, has a dark face. His little white goatee is a bit stained, but it's not bad, and I just don't worry about it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Suzi said:


> I just looked at maddies beard and her new growth is coming in very cream with no red. I switch food about 40 days ago. I've never had the sisters ph levels checked. I have always given tap water. There are also other factors to check like tear duct problems. Anyway I hope your new product works.:dance:


Just like people, dogs have a VERY narrow window of "OK" pH. The range is only from 7.32-7.42. Much outside this range is inconsistent with life. So it's not something you generally need to worry about if your dog is capable of walking around.<g>

pH of urine is much more variable, even over the course of a single day... running from about 5.5-7.0. If the vet thinks your dog might have a urinary tract infection or other problem, they will probably test the pH of the urine, because an alkaline pH (higher than about 7.0) is a sign that all is not well, and further investigation may be in order.


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## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

I want to start off by saying this: I am happy so many people try to give their four legged family members the very best in nutrition, medicine, and coat/skin care however, if you are experimenting on your pet just to try some home remedy concoction, I don't want to hear it.
With that being said, here is today's review:

To answer a question, this product is a powder you add to the food once a day (Toby gets three meals, I give it to him every evening feeding). Toby gets a mixture of dry and canned food, the addition of the powder makes a gravy. I believe the only option as far a flavor goes for this product is chicken flavor, so be mindful if you are feeding a chicken based meal.

I didn't notice any difference in the actual tearing today, but the reddish stain is still fading away. Toby's coat also seems to continue to get shinier. My first couple attempts at snapping a quick shot of Toby failed:









As I said, the tearing didn't really improve today, but hey, its only day three:









The reddish staining does seem to be getting better:









The only other difference I have noticed is, Toby seems to be a little more gassy, but this could be from adding some variety to his canned food meals (he was eating nothing but turkey based canned meals, but we are giving him lamb, chicken and veggie now).


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## Karen Collins (Mar 21, 2013)

FYI ~ Just like lemon juice, apple cider vinegar is an acid that alkalizes once it hits the digestive tract. So, it actually will bring up an acidic environment.


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## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

I wasn't able to post an update last night, I apologize. There was a slight improvement noticed last night, I will try to get some pictures uploaded tonight.


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## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

Day 5, the tearing has lessened, so far this product seems to be working, what do you think?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yep, a little better. \keep us updated.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

krandall said:


> Suzi, I know you are just quoting something you read on the internet, but i have to comment on this. I have NO idea whether vinegar of any sort can help with staining or not. I CAN tell you, for absolute certain, that it will NOT raise pH. Vinegar is an acid. (which means, if anything, it would lower pH) When I read something that is so wrong from a scientific standpoint, I question the other parts of it. Keep in mind that there is a lot of nonsense on the internet.


Apple cider vinegar is acidic, but I believe when ingested will create an alkaline yielding liquid. So if you are trying to make your diet more alkaline, introducing apple cider vinegar into your diet should do it. I used to use baking soda or milk a magnesia & seltzer water mixture to make my drinking water more alkaline.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I think his eyes are a little better!


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## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

I apologize for missing some days, this Saturday was my son's 3rd birthday! Needless to say, we have been very busy. As far as Toby, he is looking better and better, his coat is nice and shiny and the red stain is almost gone. The tearing is still hit and miss, but I think overall its getting better.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

From what I understand, improved diet and skin/coat supplements only affect new growth of hair, as the hair is not a live material except for at the base. You may notice a clearing up of the hair at the corner of the eyes, which is where you will see the new hair growth. Also if the eye drainage stops that also benefits the hair by drying out and not allowing bacteria to thrive. For non-showing dogs, after the clean hair grows out, mearly cutting off the stained hair will give him a tear-stain makeover. 

If anyone knows differently, please chime in.

And I do see an improvement. Keep it up and keep posting pictures.


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## Karen Collins (Mar 21, 2013)

Yes, you are absolutely right. It's looks like it's stopped at the source. I would cut out the stained part. He'll look good as new.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

I just noticed your pup is 5 months old. Keep in mind that puppies get tearing from teething, which irritates and inflames the face, causing increased eye drainage and therefore staining. Once the teething starts to subside, tearing will most likely improves. Each puppy is different but for my dog I noticed her eyes got better around the 5 month mark.


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## lfung5 (Jun 30, 2007)

I was going to suggest the same thing. Trim off all the brown and lets see if the stains come back. I will be interested in seeing if they come back in the next month or so...


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## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

I will try to give Toby a trim this weekend. Thank you for the advise on teething and tearing, this very well may be the case. Toby has tear stains from at least week 6, is that normal?
I am sorry I have missed some days here lately, between my son's birthday and fighting a cold, its been pretty tough fitting everything in.


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## SJ1998 (Feb 4, 2013)

My puppy has tear stains also. He's going to be neutered soon and the vet recommended doing a tear duct flushing at the same time. Any thoughts or opinions on that? I thought tear staining was normal when they are little but now the vet has put doubt in my mind that my pup's is abnormal! Ours is seven months. He is better recently though. The adult canines are in but he still has about three extra teeth. He's still chewing a ton so I think he still has some dental discomfort. I really dont like doing extra medical procedures.


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## Mjurasek (Mar 4, 2013)

I am not expert, but I would agree with the others who have posted a connection between puppy teething and tearing. I would wait and see what happens in another 6 months or so.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

SJ1998 said:


> My puppy has tear stains also. He's going to be neutered soon and the vet recommended doing a tear duct flushing at the same time. Any thoughts or opinions on that? I thought tear staining was normal when they are little but now the vet has put doubt in my mind that my pup's is abnormal! Ours is seven months. He is better recently though. The adult canines are in but he still has about three extra teeth. He's still chewing a ton so I think he still has some dental discomfort. I really dont like doing extra medical procedures.


That would rule out a blocked tear duct. It is the most invasive of all of the possible solutions AND avoid a second anesthesia. Theething does affect the tearing. I am not an expert, either. Hopefully, someone with more experience will join this thread.


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## My2Havs (Jun 5, 2009)

swaye said:


> That would rule out a blocked tear duct. It is the most invasive of all of the possible solutions AND avoid a second anesthesia. Theething does affect the tearing. I am not an expert, either. Hopefully, someone with more experience will join this thread.


I don't agree about flushing tear ducts as "the most invasive of all the possible solutions". Our Dooley has narrow tear ducts that get blocked and they've been flushed at least 6 times during his 12 years. Several of the times it was done under anesthesia during routine teeth cleaning but the others were done without anesthesia by an ophthalmologist. Of course she is skilled at doing this and maybe not all are, but it's worth checking into for anyone with dogs with excessive tearing. And if your dog is under anesthesia anyway during the neutering, it would be a good time to have it done. That's how our vet found out the ducts were narrow in the first place. JMO
Monica, Dooley & Roxie


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

My2Havs said:


> I don't agree about flushing tear ducts as "the most invasive of all the possible solutions". Our Dooley has narrow tear ducts that get blocked and they've been flushed at least 6 times during his 12 years. Several of the times it was done under anesthesia during routine teeth cleaning but the others were done without anesthesia by an ophthalmologist. Of course she is skilled at doing this and maybe not all are, but it's worth checking into for anyone with dogs with excessive tearing. And if your dog is under anesthesia anyway during the neutering, it would be a good time to have it done. That's how our vet found out the ducts were narrow in the first place. JMO
> Monica, Dooley & Roxie


I had the same feeling on flushing out tear ducts, but have no personal experience with the procedure. Thanks for the input. It's not an uncommon thing, from what I understand.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

Yes, it may be a common procedure, but it is invasive as opposed to ACV, diet, stain removal products, or whatever other non surgical procedure is out there that I don't know about.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

swaye said:


> Yes, it may be a common procedure, but it is invasive as opposed to ACV, diet, stain removal products, or whatever other non surgical procedure is out there that I don't know about.


If I'm not mistaken if the ducts are truly blocked, then change in diet, stain removal products etc wont unclog them. If the dog is already going under for a different thing, that is different from putting the dog under just to unclog tear ducts. It's not open heart surgery.


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## swaye (Mar 28, 2013)

atsilvers27 said:


> If I'm not mistaken if the ducts are truly blocked, then change in diet, stain removal products etc wont unclog them. If the dog is already going under for a different thing, that is different from putting the dog under just to unclog tear ducts. It's not open heart surgery.


No you are not mistaken. I was just suggesting there were other options to try, if one did not want to flush the tear duct and then find it was not the problem. Just a different way of looking at the problem. There is a school of thought, that some tearing is unavoidable, since the eyeball takes up the entire eye socket, spilling over of tears is inevitable. Not saying it is so, just sharing a different perspective.


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## atsilvers27 (Jul 5, 2011)

[QUOI E=swaye;571737]No you are not mistaken. I was just suggesting there were other options to try, if one did not want to flush the tear duct and then find it was not the problem. Just a different way of looking at the problem. There is a school of thought, that some tearing is unavoidable, since the eyeball takes up the entire eye socket, spilling over of tears is inevitable. Not saying it is so, just sharing a different perspective.[/QUOTE]

But I have read that vets can't necessarily tell from just looking at the dog if they are clogged or not. Also depends on genetics how bad the tearing is, I have seen dogs with soaken-wet faces from an imbalace of eye drainage - flushing the ducts won't help them.


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