# Where Is Everybody??



## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

We seem to be missing several of our regular, active forum members. I hope they are just on vacation. It is getting to be that time of the year I guess.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

still kicking :smile2:


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

It seems that at least a couple of them may have left the forum after some back and forth with another forum member. I hope that is not the case!


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## HavaneseFloof (Jan 1, 2019)

I don't think I'm counted as regular, active member, but I've been going through a break-up and my ex moved out 1. of April and when I didn't get a puppy from the litter I was hoping for I kind of just took a step back. Have had a lot to do and things to sort out.

Probably a good thing I didn't get a puppy yet, because my son have some specialist appointments in May that I was notified of just a week ago. The interesting thing is that the puppy is ready to be delivered 2. of May, and that is also the date of my sons first appointment  You probably remember I have said earlier that the puppy arrives when the time is right, and now I believe that stronger than ever.


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## Ollie"s Mom (May 23, 2014)

I’m still here Jackie.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I keep getting logged off by the Powers that Be and have trouble getting back on. I did pop in occasionally just to read, even though I couldn't post. I decided to sign in once more though, to say this.

It is such a shame that the educated persons that had been here on Havanese Forum for over a decade have been pushed aside because of the attitude of new, novice Havanese owners with little experience with our beloved breed. I always appreciated Krandall's non-judgemental information and guidance, and was often impressed at how gentle her sharing was. She took the time to answer questions extensively, over and over again, in order to help other Hav owners with questions and people having challenges.

This had been the only on-line site that was left that had real experience and knowledgeable people who were willing to keep sharing and repeating information over to the new and searching owners. Now that has been greatly handicapped and limited.

So sad. Such a loss to this group.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I agree with you, Sheri. If Karen is gone it is a great loss to the group and things just won’t be the same without her. I will miss hearing about Kodi, Pixel and Panda and the new members will be missing out on a wealth of knowledge.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Karen is the one of the members I was hoping to see! Oh no I hope she hasn't left the forum. Karen is a great forum poster and has provided so much in depth information! I've also seen some information posted by newer members that is a little off the wall and I so hope we haven't lost someone that has the experience and knowledge that Karen provided. Karen, if you are reading this.....WE MISS YOU!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

davetgabby said:


> still kicking :smile2:


Glad to hear that!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

HavaneseFloof said:


> I don't think I'm counted as regular, active member, but I've been going through a break-up and my ex moved out 1. of April and when I didn't get a puppy from the litter I was hoping for I kind of just took a step back. Have had a lot to do and things to sort out.
> 
> Probably a good thing I didn't get a puppy yet, because my son have some specialist appointments in May that I was notified of just a week ago. The interesting thing is that the puppy is ready to be delivered 2. of May, and that is also the date of my sons first appointment  You probably remember I have said earlier that the puppy arrives when the time is right, and now I believe that stronger than ever.


Glad to see you posting. I sure hope your son is doing ok. Also hope you get your puppy! Sorry to hear about the breakup though. Always hard to go through that.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Ollie"s Mom said:


> I'm still here Jackie.


Good to see you!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

HavaneseFloof said:


> I don't think I'm counted as regular, active member, but I've been going through a break-up and my ex moved out 1. of April and when I didn't get a puppy from the litter I was hoping for I kind of just took a step back. Have had a lot to do and things to sort out.
> 
> Probably a good thing I didn't get a puppy yet, because my son have some specialist appointments in May that I was notified of just a week ago. The interesting thing is that the puppy is ready to be delivered 2. of May, and that is also the date of my sons first appointment  You probably remember I have said earlier that the puppy arrives when the time is right, and now I believe that stronger than ever.


I can't speak to your situation, but I will say that I have a son with chronic medical issues and special needs and we waited and waited to get a puppy because I was worried it would just be too much. Looking back, a puppy would have certainly been a lot of work, but it would have also provided a lot of comfort for my son. I was worried about taking care of the puppy if my son was hospitalized, but he's been admitting a couple of times since we brought our puppy home and I have been amazed that it always works out. We were already making accommodations for my daughter when he was sick, so it really wasn't that much harder to make sure the puppy was cared for. Suddenly there is this community other dog people right there to help, too! It's a beautiful thing.

I'm not saying you should bring home a puppy in the middle of a high stress time or pushing you to get a puppy! You have always seemed very level headed to me so do I believe the right puppy will join your family when it's right for you.


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## Cassandra (Dec 29, 2015)

Oh dear...hope Karen is just traveling with her doggies or doing something fun and will pop back in soon. She is an incredible wealth of knowledge and experience with her three, different Havanese. I think she tries to be as gentle and constructive as possible with new owners, recognizing that people have different views about some issues but on basic safety and treatment of these sweet Havanese doggies is forthright. 

I know that there is a group of “regulars” who started around the time I did, about three years ago, that I look forward to hearing from them when I check in. I do think we tend to evolve in engagement in any kind of social media — as a new owner of a lively puppy, I asked lots of questions, then as I gained experience, I tried to respond to other new owners (like my endless pursuit of the perfect gate for a puppy who could slip thru or perfect harness for whatever stage her coat was), then become less engaged and less likely to post but check back to see if anything new has come up (like someone finding that perfect harness). But I sometimes see a thread from five or six years ago and don’t recognize any names except Karen!

There have been a couple of recent dust-ups that I hope have not turned people off because for the time I have been reading it, there has been a pleasant, supportive mood about this platform..


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

I'm here.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

I will admit that I almost quit the forum shortly after I joined over five years ago. I was a little too sensitive to the tone and responses from some of the members at the time. It is not always clear to accurately interpret tone and intent of the poster. I think you have to have a thick skin to participate in talking to people you don't know under these circumstances. You also have to realize that we all do things differently with our pets and there will be some people who will argue their point as being the only correct one, and that is their prerogative. I am glad I decided to stay on the forum and I have learned when I want to give my two cents on a topic and when I prefer to just stay out of the debate. I hope we can all agree to disagree and be more mindful of others feelings when responding to their questions. This really is a great forum, with some very nice people, and has been a wonderful resource for advice I have needed for my dog. I hope we can put these issues behind us and that the members who have left will consider returning to the group.


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

I don't know what happened, but if it's true that long-term forum members have left because of a disagreement, I will be very sad. I've learned so much from reading the forums and still have many questions now that my puppy is home. With the advent of social media and Facebook groups, I feel like online forums are going the way of the dinosaur, which is unfortunate. I really hope the active posters will take a short break and COME BACK, because we newbies still need you!


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I have found the forums here to be a really unique place in the dog community, not just specifically to Havanese. I know the Facebook and other social media platforms are more active but part of that means there’s also a lot more misinformation to wade through. 

I think where problems seem to be starting is when someone posts an opposing view, sometimes a person who posted prior assumes it’s a counter argument specifically directed towards them. We all learn in different ways, we have different lifestyles, and we’ve all had different experiences, so there are going to be varied responses and that is what makes the forum so useful. People can come and learn not just from the experts but from other people’s mistakes, too, and take a little information here and there to form their own views. One of the most useful things happens when I come here with an issue. One of the experienced members will post a detailed response, and then someone who has their first Hav like me will post that they got stuck on a certain step or idea because of inexperience and how they dealt with it. 

I don’t think there is anything wrong with debating hot button issues, but maybe those should be in their own separate threads so less confrontational people don’t feel their threads are hijacked.

One of the best parts of the forum is that members are from different places and backgrounds, and it’s easy to minimize how one way of expressing something may seem much stronger to different people. Just assume offense isn’t intended and all will be well!

I love that I can come as a crazy dog lady and not feel so crazy, and know we ALL adore our little Havanese companions.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

I think we all have to remember that reading written words is not the best way to communicate. When we actually talk to someone we see facial expressions and body language that is impossible to see in this digital environment. What may come across in print as snarky or condescending might be interpreted completely differently if we were standing in front of that person.

I think I did come across the thread that started this upheaval and I didn't appreciate how it felt like an attack. My mom used to tell me, "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".

I so hope that we can get our core group back together on this forum as I always love hearing about their doggie adventures and appreciate the wealth of information they have provided.


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## HavaneseFloof (Jan 1, 2019)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> I can't speak to your situation, but I will say that I have a son with chronic medical issues and special needs and we waited and waited to get a puppy because I was worried it would just be too much. Looking back, a puppy would have certainly been a lot of work, but it would have also provided a lot of comfort for my son. I was worried about taking care of the puppy if my son was hospitalized, but he's been admitting a couple of times since we brought our puppy home and I have been amazed that it always works out. We were already making accommodations for my daughter when he was sick, so it really wasn't that much harder to make sure the puppy was cared for. Suddenly there is this community other dog people right there to help, too! It's a beautiful thing.
> 
> I'm not saying you should bring home a puppy in the middle of a high stress time or pushing you to get a puppy! You have always seemed very level headed to me so do I believe the right puppy will join your family when it's right for you.





Jackie from Concrete said:


> Glad to see you posting. I sure hope your son is doing ok. Also hope you get your puppy! Sorry to hear about the breakup though. Always hard to go through that.


Thanks guys. Good to see you too 

My son is having anger and behavioral issues at school and so we have appointments at the "childrens psychiatric department" to figure out what is bothering him and to figure out if he might have ADHD or something else that causes him to act out. These appointments might take some time and having a brand new puppy might have been a bit too much at that time.

I DO know though, that a puppy will be a GREAT thing for him, and for us 

I also miss Krandall, she has so much wisdom and knowledge and if she has left permanently that would be a great shame and loss to this forum.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

I'm old and retired. Have been through those difficult, awful pre-teen and teenage years. Even transferred a son to a private out-of-state school to try and get control. Both kids, son and daughter, eventually graduated from college, got married, have had successful but sometimes up and down careers, a long with experiencing a divorce. Both now have pre-teen kids and are struggling through mid-life with their kids and jobs. Seems nothing changes. 

I have a friend whose late life teenage daughter is a mess. Two days ago they adopted a Flat-Haired Retriever. My friend is hoping this one-year-old, lovable dog will bring some comfort to her daughter. Giving her 18 year old daughter some responsibility. Someone to love and to love her. 

At an elderly age my mom's dog brought her a great deal of comfort to some of her very lonesome days.

Dogs bring such comfort and companionship to humans. 

If I knew back then what I know now ... I might have dogs and not kids. :wink2:


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Jackie from Concrete said:


> I think we all have to remember that reading written words is not the best way to communicate. When we actually talk to someone we see facial expressions and body language that is impossible to see in this digital environment. What may come across in print as snarky or condescending might be interpreted completely differently if we were standing in front of that person.
> 
> I think I did come across the thread that started this upheaval and I didn't appreciate how it felt like an attack. My mom used to tell me, "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".
> 
> I so hope that we can get our core group back together on this forum as I always love hearing about their doggie adventures and appreciate the wealth of information they have provided.


I agree with you Jackie. Written words can easily be misinterpreted. It's just not the same as sharing different ideas and opinions face to face. Hoping to hear from Karen and Ricky's Popi soon. &#55357;&#56842;


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

I planted the seed for starting these forums, back when Melissa Miller first started them. At that time, there were several elist groups, but they had no organization, or search functions, and it you didn't read them every day, it was impossible to keep up with conversations. Melissa was talking about starting another list, and I suggested to her to start a forum.

I had been a member of Forums, on subjects that I was interested in, for about as long as internet forums existed.

I never participated, to amount to anything, in the elists, and have never been a participant in any of the social media things like Facebook. I doubt I ever will.

When a conversation goes too strong in one direction, I just stop responding, and let it pass.

These forums have been helpful to the Havanese breed in many ways-from helping new owners, sharing information about raising puppies, to getting breeders to understand the benefits of health testing, and as a result, health testing has increased much more than it existed, for the longest time, in earlier years. Participation has decreased over the past several years on these forums, but I do hope it continues. The search function here, alone, is worth its continuation.

When anyone comes along, and tries to propose less health testing, or the breeding of inferior dogs, they do need to be countered. I don't know that there will ever be a reason for me to leave.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Tom King said:


> I planted the seed for starting these forums, back when Melissa Miller first started them. At that time, there were several elist groups, but they had no organization, or search functions, and it you didn't read them every day, it was impossible to keep up with conversations. Melissa was talking about starting another list, and I suggested to her to start a forum.
> 
> I had been a member of Forums, on subjects that I was interested in, for about as long as internet forums existed.
> 
> ...


Tom, that is very cool to know--I had no idea that you here at the beginning, encouraging Melissa in starting this Forum, way back when in 2006, at the start. I gained quite a few wonderful friends and much knowledge from this HF!! Thank you so much for that!

I don't know you well enough to give a cyber hug to you and your wife, but I'm sure tempted!


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## wencit (Jul 15, 2018)

Tom King said:


> I don't know that there will ever be a reason for me to leave.


 Please don't ever leave! You are one of the many people I have learned SO much from! You're a wonderful ambassador for this breed.


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## Ditto's Mom (Apr 29, 2007)

I joined HF in 2007 a year after it started and have learned so much from many of the originals. Tom and Pam have always been at the top of my list for information. Sorry we lost many wonderful people but that's how it goes on forums. Hope in time they will return.:smile2:


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Thank you Tom for your post. I'll probably never leave the forum either and I have tried to stay away from any postings that seem to turn confrontational. I'll try even harder in the future. I have always appreciated your postings. We have some really good people on this forum.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Greetings, dear friends! I'm sorry I haven't been on lately. I will need to read this thread when I have more time. For now, I just wanted to say hello, and I look forward to having more time to get caught up. I hope all the other busy members will pop in just to say hi. Welcome to anyone new since I last visited.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

Heather's said:


> I agree with you Jackie. Written words can easily be misinterpreted. It's just not the same as sharing different ideas and opinions face to face. Hoping to hear from Karen and Ricky's Popi soon. ��


Ha, ha, ha! :grin2: You can't get rid of Ricky and me that easily! >

Ricky and Momi and Popi have been super busy for the last two months or more. First some time in Mexico and then time sailing the high seas, and then tax time......it never seems to end! AND, OH MY DOG, do I have some stories to tell about Ricky's adventures! :surprise: This breed of dog never ceases to amaze! I should have a bit of time to catch up for the next month or so..................and then the three of us go back down to Mexico!

As far as Karen, since I haven't been here much, I didn't realize she was AWOL. I have personal contact information for Karen and I will see what's up. Momi and Popi have been to Karen's house last November and have met Dave and her three dogs. Wonderful beings, all of them. Karen is not the type to abandon HF because of any perceived controversy. She is too even tempered. I'm sure there is a logical explanation for her absence.

HEY! It appears Karen is on-line right now! C'mon Karen, quit torturing us! :wink2:

Ricky's Popi (with Ricky sleeping peacefully, spread-eagle, by my side)


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## Jeanniek (Mar 20, 2018)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Ha, ha, ha! :grin2: You can't get rid of Ricky and me that easily! )


I am glad that you, Momi and Ricky are okay. I was worried about you! Continue to enjoy life to its fullest!


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Ha, ha, ha! :grin2: You can't get rid of Ricky and me that easily! >
> 
> Ricky and Momi and Popi have been super busy for the last two months or more. First some time in Mexico and then time sailing the high seas, and then tax time......it never seems to end! AND, OH MY DOG, do I have some stories to tell about Ricky's adventures! :surprise: This breed of dog never ceases to amaze! I should have a bit of time to catch up for the next month or so..................and then the three of us go back down to Mexico!
> 
> ...


Karen is lurking around. I see her name once in a while reading the posts. :nerd:


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## cishepard (Apr 8, 2018)

I am still here and read pretty much all the posts, but only once a week, as opposed to every day. I’ve gone through a personal growth phase when I felt “addicted” to screen time, and have cut back significantly and replaced the time with some new endeavours (I’ve taken up the cello!).
I joined the forum with my mixed breed puppy because this was really quite the best, active and informative breed forum around and I treasure it for the small breed/long hair content!
I’m grateful to all the long term members who stick around and keep the conversations flowing.
Cheers to you all : )


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

It's so good to see all you guys popping on to say hi! Glad to see everyone! And Ricky, I can't wait to hear all about your adventures.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

I'm here (though wouldn't consider myself a long-timer... yet  ) I was traveling last week for work so wasn't online much at all... Also realized I had completely forgotten Perry's birthday! (Bad, bad mommy!) So, happy belated 3rd birthday (April 10th) to my crazy boy!


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## Ollie"s Mom (May 23, 2014)

Awwww, happy belated birthday little man.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I folks, I am popping in here and there.

I can't say I am happy with how things have been lately, and I am certainly not going to continue conversations with people who personally attack me or my dogs. That is not OK, and it bothers me that we have a forum where there are NO moderators to step in in such cases. OTOH, it also heartens me that we have a community here where even WITHOUT moderators, in the end, the nice people come out on top. Thank you all.

I am SO warmed by the response of you all. :hug:

As far as my participation, I am pretty ill at the moment, and that is likely to go on for a number of months. I will pop in and see what's going on, but the truth is, the answers are all here if the new puppy people just read what has been written over the last 10 years. And the folks that are answering questions now seem to be doing a great job! 

I'll stop in when I can. Love you all!


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Molly and I send our love to you, Karen, and hope that you are feeling better soon. Thanks for checking in! I hope Kodi, Pixel, and Panda are taking good care of you - along with Dave!


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## PNWAlan (Oct 9, 2018)

So good to see you Karen. :smile2: I learned a lot from you in the short time Skye and I have been here.

Best wishes for whatever you may be going through.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Oh Karen, I am so glad to see you online. I'm so sorry that you are ill too and I hope whatever it is goes away quickly.

As far as moderating inappropriate posts, I'm kicking myself for not clicking on that triangle icon with an exclamation point in it that appears on all the posts. It's supposed "report" the post. I've never tried it but by the time I thought to do it, it was really too late.

Best wishes Karen and we all love and appreciate you.


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Melissa Brill said:


> I'm here (though wouldn't consider myself a long-timer... yet  ) I was traveling last week for work so wasn't online much at all... Also realized I had completely forgotten Perry's birthday! (Bad, bad mommy!) So, happy belated 3rd birthday (April 10th) to my crazy boy!


Happy birthday Perry! I'm sure you don't realize we a celebrating late.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

krandall said:


> I folks, I am popping in here and there.
> 
> I can't say I am happy with how things have been lately, and I am certainly not going to continue conversations with people who personally attack me or my dogs. That is not OK, and it bothers me that we have a forum where there are NO moderators to step in in such cases. OTOH, it also heartens me that we have a community here where even WITHOUT moderators, in the end, the nice people come out on top. Thank you all.
> 
> ...


Karen, you were a doggie-mom lifesaver along with others during those trying puppy stages. I learned so much. Seriously, I may have re-homed Patti if not for the good advice on this forum. You've taught many people how to train well mannered dogs. From what I see you've, also, set up an active self-monitored forum. :grin2:

Sorry to hear you're experiencing some health issues. Take care. Good to hear from you.


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## Dianedp (Dec 16, 2018)

Mikki said:


> I have a friend whose late life teenage daughter is a mess. Two days ago they adopted a Flat-Haired Retriever. My friend is hoping this one-year-old, lovable dog will bring some comfort to her daughter. Giving her 18 year old daughter some responsibility. Someone to love and to love her.


My youngest was a troubled teen. At 16 she got her first dog, a puppy. I think Daffney raised Tori as much as I did. She still had issues, but she also had a built-in best friend, a child of sorts, someone she always put first. She's happily married now. They lost Daffney to cancer last month. She was only nine and it was sudden--five days after finding out, my daughter had to make the heartbreaking decision to let her go. On top of losing Daff, it was awful to watch her go through that. (The first thing she whispered was, "I killed my dog." I told her, "no, you helped your dog.") But her strength in going on after that amazes me. I'm glad I caved on that dog issue ten years ago!


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## Dianedp (Dec 16, 2018)

I hope you feel better, Karen. I'm new and I've already learned a lot from you.


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## HavGracie (Feb 27, 2012)

I haven’t been on the forum very often these past several months, and had no idea of what was going on. I just want to say that I’m sorry you are having health problems Karen, and am hoping you’ll be back on your feet soon. Your posts have always been very informative, along with all your pics and doggies antics. I, for one, appreciate the massive amounts of time you have spent on this forum.🙏

Connie


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## Patti (Apr 19, 2018)

Hello. Glad to see Ricky’s Popi and Karen. Karen, I’m sorry to hear you have been ill. I hope you feel better soon.

You were so helpful to me over this past year with Merry. You went out of your way to research and find a link for a winter coat for Merry that helped keep her warm and keep her from matting so much. I know we all have busy lives and so any response is really a generous gift. 

Its always good to hear from people on this forum. I value this forum and people’s various experiences and views. I see this forum as a wealth of information from knowledgeable people. 

I always feel bad I don’t participate more. I’m still working a full time job, husband, Merry, and two aging parents. Dad just had a double bypass a few weeks ago.

More to update on Merry but maybe I’ll start another thread for that.


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## 31818 (Oct 29, 2014)

krandall said:


> I folks, I am popping in here and there..............I'll stop in when I can. Love you all!


Ahhhhhh, a post from Karen, my excellent day just got infinitely better! :smile2:

I am glad I missed the controversy a month ago. I was embroiled in a controversy in a Home Owners Association at that time. You can only be embroiled in so many controversies at one time. :wink2: As far as diplomacy, I can be very diplomatic at times while at other times, I admit I can be very undiplomatic. Sometimes on this Forum, I could word things a bit differently to be a bit more positive. You all have no idea how many times I have gone back and edited some of my posts because after reading what I posted it made me cringe. I have learned that sometimes, when I feel passionately about a topic (whether on this Forum or some other forum) it is better to not post nothing at all rather than posting something that could be construed as critical! The Internet is so anonymous and sometimes I might say something on the Internet on a forum that I would never say directly to someone in person. Think about that, I often do. I hate to see anyone leave HF for any reason! So keep posting, all you.

Momi and Popi are fortunate in that we have met Karen and her whole family and even got to visit Kodi's inner sanctum training facility. Momi and Popi feel blessed and privileged as a result. Momi and Popi reminisce frequently about our visit with them. I am confident that once Karen is feeling physically better, she will be back here better than ever (how is that possible?). I have found that FOR ME it helps to step away from a forum to re-charge my batteries for a month or two and then return with new enthusiasm to interact with all the Internet friends I have met there. So get some rest Karen, heal thyself, and be well. Pop back in as frequently as you feel comfortable and let us know you are still with us. If nothing else, just post some pictures of your doggie family. Pictures of any dog on this forum brings joy to my heart. Dog on it, I want to take every one of them home with me!

Now on an irrelevant note, Momi, Popi, and Ricky will be visiting the Huntington Gardens, Library, and Art Museum in Pasadena (San Marino) tomorrow. It is closed to the public for the day and only open to patrons. We will marvel at a couple hundred acres of rare plants from all over the world, an original Gutenberg Bible, an original Walden by Thoreau, and Gainsborough's Blue Boy, along with a host of other treasures (Shakespeare, Lincoln). We try to visit about once a month. We will spend the night with our youngest and her lover boy Lab, the BowWOWzer, a gentle giant. It is funny to see the perplexed and annoyed expression on his face as Ricky does the zoomies around him in circles. And then he will hop on the sofa and go to sleep. Just WATCHING Ricky with his jets on is enough to tire any other dog out! :faint:

As the Arnold said, "I'll be back!"

Ricky's Popi


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Sometimes I decide to read a post that looks interesting attached to old postings. I've come across my own posts and thought, "Did I really write that?" 😊 
Have fun at the Huntington Gardens Popi. Haven't been there in years. I have so many fond memories of visiting my uncle, aunt and cousins in San Marino when I was young. We would always visit the Gardens and Art Museum.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Ricky Ricardo said:


> Ahhhhhh, a post from Karen, my excellent day just got infinitely better! :smile2:
> 
> I am glad I missed the controversy a month ago. I was embroiled in a controversy in a Home Owners Association at that time. You can only be embroiled in so many controversies at one time. :wink2: ]
> 
> I, too, belong to a HOA in Colorado, where we spend the summer to get away from the overbearing, sweltering heat in Oklahoma. Before we retired we could only spend a few weeks a year there and I - Oh! So - wanted to know people in the community. NOW I WISH I DIDN'T KNOW ANYONE. :crying:


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## Chi-Chi's Mom (Dec 10, 2015)

After three years of caregiving, my Mom passed away this past August (Alzheimer's Disease) and I kind of shut down a little, but always check to see what everyone here is up to. Chi Chi is my first dog ever and the information from this group has been invaluable! It saddens me that someone went for Karen in that way. I have found her to be nothing but helpful.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Mikki said:


> Ricky Ricardo said:
> 
> 
> > Ahhhhhh, a post from Karen, my excellent day just got infinitely better! :smile2:
> ...


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Our neighborhood is new constructions and was originally planned with walking trails and two dog parks, one very small, leash required area with just a tunnel and a hill, and a larger fenced dog park in the final phase. This attracted a LOT of dog people. Later the city withdrew their approval for the second dog park because of some zoning issues they should have known about before they approved it. I bet you can imagine how those HOA meetings go, along with the posts on the neighborhood Facebook group!


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> Our neighborhood is new constructions and was originally planned with walking trails and two dog parks, one very small, leash required area with just a tunnel and a hill, and a larger fenced dog park in the final phase. This attracted a LOT of dog people. Later the city withdrew their approval for the second dog park because of some zoning issues they should have known about before they approved it. I bet you can imagine how those HOA meetings go, along with the posts on the neighborhood Facebook group!


I bet these are some "lively" discussions! In our neighborhood lots of the controversies do involve dogs. The current complaint is that dogs are peeing on mail boxes and killing the plants there. I imagine this will be a heated topic at the upcoming meeting. A few years ago there was an all out war over whether to spend extra funds on landscaping or save for future road maintenance. Some are still not speaking to this day over this...no more HOAs for me!


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## Jackie from Concrete WA (Mar 23, 2015)

Chi-Chi's Mom said:


> After three years of caregiving, my Mom passed away this past August (Alzheimer's Disease)


I'm so sorry you lost your mom. I hope for a cure for Alzheimer's Disease someday.


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## StayCalm (Jul 23, 2018)

Glad to see you here, Karen.


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## Heather's (Jun 18, 2012)

Chi-Chi's Mom said:


> After three years of caregiving, my Mom passed away this past August (Alzheimer's Disease) and I kind of shut down a little, but always check to see what everyone here is up to. Chi Chi is my first dog ever and the information from this group has been invaluable! It saddens me that someone went for Karen in that way. I have found her to be nothing but helpful.


I am so sorry to hear that you lost your mother. Life an be so difficult sometimes.


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## KarMar (Jan 14, 2016)

Going to echo Karen's sentiments (in fact, it is something we have discussed privately). When Nino first came into our lives, I was incredibly active (perhaps too active). I've seen people I have loved conversing with come and go, and I have seen some ugly stuff. I've seen this forum trending the way of "Whoever can shout their opinion the loudest wins", and as a result I have seen some pretty gross misinformation come off as the more accurate of two sides of a story. With no active moderation, it makes this a pretty difficult place to be at times. I love this breed with every fiber of my being and will ALWAYS do what I can to help educate and inform about what makes them tick. That said, I have found places I feel more confident stating my piece. I'm not looking for an echo chamber as I know they are enemies of progress. I think I just grew weary of people screaming "The sky is red! The sky is red!" if you catch my drift.

All of that said, I will continue to pop on with updates on the boys as well as to give advice to those willing to accept it and have mature discussion with those willing to participate (heck, I will even take advice myself  )


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I hope you continue to return, as well as others, in spite of frustrations. I think it’s important that everyone can be honest about their experiences, novice or expert, because even if someone inexperienced like me posts something incorrect, someone out there reading the forum is thinking the same thing and needs you to correct it. I’m here because I want to learn, because I am learning, and because this forum is unique in that there is less misinformation compared to other dog related forums and social media platforms. But it doesn’t work that way without all of your experience! 

The last year or so has been unique for me because commuting has required me to build extra time into my schedule and I have 15 extra minutes here and there much more often (not while I’m driving, don’t worry  I don’t know how much longer that will last, and I’m thankful to be able to refer back to all of the resources here in the future.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

I am always happy to read everyone's updates, so I'm glad the more serious dog owners are staying in the forum. Shama's latest is that she won some fun items in our local kennel club raffle at the annual dinner, so at some point we'll do a photo shoot for you all to see what she got. Otherwise, she continues to go to her obedience and agility classes, and she continues to do her best to get the clips I put in her hair OUT.


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## Laurmann2000 (Sep 12, 2015)

Hi folks. I haven’t been on here in a long time. Some of you may remember me from a year or two ago. I still don’t have a Havanese but I continue to want one. We lost our dog (greyhound) about 1 1/2 years ago and I wasn’t ready for another dog right away. I’m ready now but my husband, who enjoys the freedom of not having a dog, isn’t ready. My youngest will be going off to college in August and I feel that with All the children out of the house it’s a good time for a puppy or older dog. I just have to convince DH. Anyway, I am back on the forum reading posts and gathering more data that will convince my husband that we need a dog 😜 and trying to decide on puppy vs adult vs rescue.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Laurmann2000 said:


> Hi folks. I haven't been on here in a long time. Some of you may remember me from a year or two ago. I still don't have a Havanese but I continue to want one. We lost our dog (greyhound) about 1 1/2 years ago and I wasn't ready for another dog right away. I'm ready now but my husband, who enjoys the freedom of not having a dog, isn't ready. My youngest will be going off to college in August and I feel that with All the children out of the house it's a good time for a puppy or older dog. I just have to convince DH. Anyway, I am back on the forum reading posts and gathering more data that will convince my husband that we need a dog &#55357;&#56860; and trying to decide on puppy vs adult vs rescue.


Are you still working and not retired? We lost our last dog when she was 17-years-old and both our children were off to college. We were still working and it was a relief to not have to board or find someone to come in to take care of our dogs when we wanted to visit our kids, go to an out of town for a meeting, take a trip or be home to take care of them. We've been retired for 10 years and decided to get a dog after 20+ years of being without a dog to care for. Probably 35 years since we'd had a puppy. It took me two years to decide on a Havanese. She's now 14 months and adorable. But!! there were times after we got her that I might have re-homed her if one of my kids would could have taken her. There's no! way we would give her up and Love! her. Our grandkids and daughter are attached. We have a second home where we stay in the summer and no longer are traveling as much. I don't know if i'd do it again but we adore her.


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## Laurmann2000 (Sep 12, 2015)

Mikki said:


> Are you still working and not retired? We lost our last dog when she was 17-years-old and both our children were off to college. We were still working and it was a relief to not have to board or find someone to come in to take care of our dogs when we wanted to visit our kids, go to an out of town for a meeting, take a trip or be home to take care of them. We've been retired for 10 years and decided to get a dog after 20 years of being without a dog to care for. It took me two years to decide on a Havanese. She's now 14 months and adorable. But!! there were times after we got her that I might have re-homed her if one of my kids would could have taken her. There's no! way we would give her up and Love! her. Our grandkids and daughter are attached. We have a second home where we stay in the summer and no longer are traveling as much. I don't know if i'd do it again but we adore her.


We are still working and not retired yet. Thank you for your input and for sharing your experience. That's kind of what my husband is saying and I get it. There are days when I am glad we don't have the responsibility of a dog but there are lots of days I miss having one. I will definitely wait until after we drop our youngest off at college in August and see how it is to be without any of the kids at home. I'm so worried I'm going to be lonely. I only work part time so I'm home a lot and would enjoy having a dog for company. It's not an easy decision and one that both my husband and I have to agree on. Again, thank you for sharing your situation with me.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Laurmann2000 said:


> We are still working and not retired yet. Thank you for your input and for sharing your experience. That's kind of what my husband is saying and I get it. There are days when I am glad we don't have the responsibility of a dog but there are lots of days I miss having one. I will definitely wait until after we drop our youngest off at college in August and see how it is to be without any of the kids at home. I'm so worried I'm going to be lonely. I only work part time so I'm home a lot and would enjoy having a dog for company. It's not an easy decision and one that both my husband and I have to agree on. Again, thank you for sharing your situation with me.


I will warn you, the puppy stage is demanding. You'll be an exhausted puppy mom until about 9 months. Patti, our 14-month old, is still very much like a puppy but she's housebroken, funny, lovable and a wonderful pet.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Laurmann2000 said:


> We are still working and not retired yet. Thank you for your input and for sharing your experience. That's kind of what my husband is saying and I get it. There are days when I am glad we don't have the responsibility of a dog but there are lots of days I miss having one. I will definitely wait until after we drop our youngest off at college in August and see how it is to be without any of the kids at home. I'm so worried I'm going to be lonely. I only work part time so I'm home a lot and would enjoy having a dog for company. It's not an easy decision and one that both my husband and I have to agree on. Again, thank you for sharing your situation with me.


I think how much you are tied down can vary depending on whether or not you have someone you can leave your dog with if you want to travel. We have no one to leave our dogs with and I will not board them. I will also not travel with them as Mia gets car sick and this would also require me to do what I consider to be over vaccination. So we have not been on a vacation in 11 years. However, I know other people who have family members to care for their dogs or do not mind boarding them and the dogs do not tie them down that much. Traveling is not important to me but my husband would like to. It is important to keep the hubby happy too.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

mudpuppymama said:


> I think how much you are tied down can vary depending on whether or not you have someone you can leave your dog with if you want to travel. We have no one to leave our dogs with and I will not board them. I will also not travel with them as Mia gets car sick and this would also require me to do what I consider to be over vaccination. So we have not been on a vacation in 11 years. However, I know other people who have family members to care for their dogs or do not mind boarding them and the dogs do not tie them down that much. Traveling is not important to me but my husband would like to. It is important to keep the hubby happy too.


I had a Schnauzer and a Poodle who were bathed or groomed every two weeks. The groomer boarded pets and I boarded my two dogs there when we left town. They survived. :laugh2: When we lost the Schnauzer and as our poodle got older, we knew a young 20-something female, who knew our dog, liked the extra money and she came over and stayed in our home when we left town. When we visited our kids, we took the dog with us.

Today, there are more motels/hotels who accept dogs. There's a fancy pet boarding place nearby, that looks like a fun-doggie daycare. When the need arises Patti and the other family dog a Golden-doodle will go there. It's hard when you first leave them, :crying: but you discover the dog is OK upon your return. :wink2:


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*new dog*



Mikki said:


> I will warn you, the puppy stage is demanding. You'll be an exhausted puppy mom until about 9 months. Patti, our 14-month old, is still very much like a puppy but she's housebroken, funny, lovable and a wonderful pet.


You could also consider an older rescue - there are definitely pluses and minuses but if you research your rescue groups and go with one that does a lot of good fostering you can get one that you know the personality, if it gets car sick, how it reacts to people, how they are when left alone in a crate (good if you're traveling and they'll be in a hotel room alone), how big it is as an adult (especially important if you're planning to fly a lot and need to be sure they are under a certain weight/ height), etc AND avoid the puppy months . The nice thing about the Havanese is that if you get the right one they're super easy to travel with - the right size, good temperament, etc.

Even with Perry's issues (he is a rescue but not one that was well socialized at the rescue) - he's afraid of a lot of people, and he gets car sick, he still travels extremely well (we just have to manage the car sick). I haven't taken him on many vacations (he's so-so in a hotel alone - sometimes will cry in his crate even though he's perfectly fine in his crate at home), but he does travel with me for trips longer than 2 weeks.


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## Laurmann2000 (Sep 12, 2015)

Melissa Brill said:


> You could also consider an older rescue - there are definitely pluses and minuses but if you research your rescue groups and go with one that does a lot of good fostering you can get one that you know the personality, if it gets car sick, how it reacts to people, how they are when left alone in a crate (good if you're traveling and they'll be in a hotel room alone), how big it is as an adult (especially important if you're planning to fly a lot and need to be sure they are under a certain weight/ height), etc AND avoid the puppy months . The nice thing about the Havanese is that if you get the right one they're super easy to travel with - the right size, good temperament, etc.
> 
> Even with Perry's issues (he is a rescue but not one that was well socialized at the rescue) - he's afraid of a lot of people, and he gets car sick, he still travels extremely well (we just have to manage the car sick). I haven't taken him on many vacations (he's so-so in a hotel alone - sometimes will cry in his crate even though he's perfectly fine in his crate at home), but he does travel with me for trips longer than 2 weeks.


Thank you Melissa. I am considering an adult rescue too. I would prefer an adult because I know how difficult the puppy stage is but I'm so afraid of behavior issues with a rescue. But before I do anything I need to get my husband on board. :grin2: Thanks for the advice. I'm glad to hear that Perry is able to travel with you. That's encouraging.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*getting hubby on board*



Laurmann2000 said:


> Thank you Melissa. I am considering an adult rescue too. I would prefer an adult because I know how difficult the puppy stage is but I'm so afraid of behavior issues with a rescue. But before I do anything I need to get my husband on board. :grin2: Thanks for the advice. I'm glad to hear that Perry is able to travel with you. That's encouraging.


Oh I definitely am with you on trying to get hubby on board  I've been working on my husband about puppy number 2 almost since we got Perry 2 1/2 years ago.

As for rescues - yes there can be issues, but a lot of rescues foster so they could help you with picking the right one because the foster will know what the issues are. And more people want puppies, so it might be easier to get an adult. Perry does have issues (including not being fond of my husband which is contributing to hubby's reluctance to get number 2) but getting one from a better rescue would help with that. Number 2 (when my husband finally agrees ) will be coming from a rescue - it's something I believe strongly in, but also because there is such variety in size with Havs that I need to get one that's older so I can be sure they can travel in cabin on the plane).

Perry and I are off for our next trip to the US in 3 weeks - where, after a very long plane trip he'll spend a week with Grandma and Uncle Duncan (the scotty) while my husband and I travel and then 2 more weeks with us at my Mom's before coming back to Kampala, where he'll spend a week with my housekeeper when we go to Ethiopia for my father-in-law's 80th birthday.


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