# HELP! SHELBY IS BITING!!



## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I'm so upset. Last night we went or a nice long walk after dinner. On the way home, we met one of our neighbors and started talking. Kodi and Shelby were very happy and went up to the woman and started licking her. Shelby even danced for her. While the woman was petting her, Shelby just jumped up and nipped her on the knee. Luckily she didn't break skin because the woman had pants on, but she left a nasty mark. The woman was very nice about it and made all kinds of excuses - must smell my mom's dog, she must have gotten scared, etc.

Well, then another neighbor's little girl came over and wanted to pet the dogs. So I took Kodi over to her and he was so good. He sat there and let her pet him, he gave her some kisses. He is a good boy. Then Shelby started crying and dancing, so I gave Kodi back to my Mom and took Shelby to the little girl. She sat down and let the little girl pet her with no problem. As I started to make my move to leave, Shelby jumped up and nipped her on the leg.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is this happening all of a sudden? Any comments would be so appreciated. I am going to go to my trainer this week to see if we can work with her somehow.


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

Michele, I can't help with that one...but, I have the same thing with Doc. He has "nipped" at a couple of people about the leg area and it really scares me that he may bite a child. I'll be interested to see what others have to say as I need to do something.


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## ama0722 (Nov 28, 2006)

Is she showing any fear signs at the time? Or could she be too excited and not meaning to nip? That is pretty scary when you are totally not expecting it too! I would definitely get her to the trainer though to find out why she is doing this.

<hugs>
Amanda


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

No signs of fear at the time. Like I said, she was sitting, dancing, licking the woman and then, bite! I puzzled by this.


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## Judy A (Jan 13, 2007)

Have you checked her to see if she has an injury or maybe a sore spot from a bug bite or something?


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Michele - this is always such puzzling behavior when it's out of character. My Maltese did the same to a woman and all we could figure was that he was trying to eat some food off her pant leg. Luckily he didn't leave a mark. Now when I walk him I use the command "no visit" since he gets so excited. Either that or "sit to visit" - it just sets up a nicer perception of your dog.

Bottom line is that there should be no interaction between Shelby and people until your trainer has a chance to evaluate her. The last thing you need is an incident. I'm so sorry you are going though this!

Oh and the incident with the child - I had a small breed mix once that had been teased unmercifully by a young boy. When he had the chance months later after a nice "visit" and pet by this boy, he turned around and gave him a good chomp on the leg. Granted the kid deserved it, but it showed me that they have long memories and there may have been an incident with this child that you are not aware of.


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## Lynn (Jan 2, 2007)

Michele,

I think I would have the vet check Shelby out, and then take her to the dog trainers.

Has Shelby been getting her exercise? I know my two act up if I get busy and don't play and walk them.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

Michele, I am so sorry to read this. I can sense how upset you are. 

I agree that you shouldn't mess around with this and make sure you get her checked out by your veterinarian and then get some professional help to nip this in the bud. Out here, if a dog bite is reported, no matter the breed or size, the dog is taken away and quarantined. After a second incident, the dog is removed permanently (and euthanized). It's a pretty serious problem and the Police/Animal Control authorities don't mess around. Shelby's behavior needs to be stopped quickly.

I am hopeful that your trainer can help you. I commend you for being concerned and jumping on this immediately. You're a good dog owner!


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## Lina (Apr 26, 2007)

Michele, I'm so sorry to hear about Shelby's biting! I have no idea why she would do something like that but I agree that working with a trainer ASAP is probably your best option. I hope you can get this figured out soon!


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks for all your input. Yes, I am upset, because I had another dog who was a fear biter. She was terrific with anyone she knew, but I couldn't let her near strangers. So, I am familiar with fear biting. This situation with Shelby is different.

True, I'm not a vet, but I have checked her thoroughly to make sure there is no "hidden" bruise that would make her react like that. She is acting perfectly normal as far as eating, playing, etc. She hasn't had any accidents and has been very good about using the pads and going out.

I'm thinking it's some sort of confusion on her part on how to react with strangers. This woman is a neighbor that Shelby has been with before. So, I was thinking that when the woman stopped petting her, Shelby wanted more and her "alpha" side came out. Whatever it is, I will go see the trainer this week and see what she has to say.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Michele, I am so sorry for you because I know how you feel. It is so shocking and it hurts you and makes you sad. As you may remember Jasper bit me and I cried for 3 hours because I felt I failed, he betrayed me, and I was worried that I had a "red zone" dog. But Jasper was in a fear aggressive state because of the mail man when he bit me. What surprises me is that Shelby seemed so friendly before she bit. I agree, take her to the vet and make sure there is nothing physically going on. And I also commend you for jumping right on it with a trainer. The pinch collar has gone a long way in a short time to calm him and it even seems to have helped calm him when it is not even on. But this doesn't sound like shelby was fearful. 

Hugs, you will figure it out and we are all here for you.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

yes Kimberly is right . Even though it was what is catagorized as a level 2 bite it can lead to problems if he does draw blood sometime. Roughly 95 per cent of dog bites are out of fear. That is why teaching your dog bite inhibition is the single most important lesson an owner has to teach their dog. Yeah if your dog draws blood it can be very detrimental and expensive . I think sometimes small dog owners do not think that their dogs can inflict serious damage therefore do not treat it serious enough. Yeah I agee also with Kimberley to get a behaviourist to find out what things stess him. Quite often we and the victims miss the warnings signs the dog gives us.


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## ivyagogo (Sep 11, 2007)

Could Shelby be trying to protect Kodi? I really have no idea, I'm just grasping at straws. I hope you get it all worked out quickly.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

I just want to thank everyone for all their input. I know it's not anything physical, because she is acting normal in every way. She is eating, sleeping, playing, etc. as usual. At this point I think it might be a few different things going on. I will talk to the trainer on Wednesday, and hopefully she will have some solutions.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Oh, Michele, I'm sorry to hear about this. Not that I think it's anything terribly serious, but that it is very upsetting to you. I mean, i understand. It's so puzzling that Shelby would even do this when it's not a usual thing for her. I am always worried about Ricky nipping some child in the face, but we are vigilant and always warning our 6 yr. old nephew to be gentle and not be in Ricky's face. Ricky might snap at the air out of fear and feeling cornered, but that isn't what happened with Shelby, so I really am not much help.

Good luck with this and keep us posted.


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## mellowbo (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear about Shelby biting. Do you think she was upset in both cases because the person stopped petting her? Just a guess.....


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## Poornima (Jun 29, 2007)

Michele, I am so sorry to hear this. I do hope that the trianer and the Vet have answers for you. :hug:


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## JanB (Oct 26, 2007)

Michele, I am sorry this has happened. It actually sounds encouraging that she didn't nip due to fear. Maybe it was her way of engaging them and asking for attention much like a puppy tries to do?

I do hope the behaviorist is able to help. And kudos to you for looking for answers so quickly!

:hug:


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2007)

Sorry to read this Michele:hug:
I commend you for taking care of the situation immediantly and not letting it go and dismissing it. I hope you find some answers and her behavior changes quickly. I know it must be stressful for you.

Is it possible Shelby is being assertive for attention from the other people? It sounds like you were done talking and ready to move on in both instances when Shelby nipped. Just a thought----Please keep us informed.


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## lulubella (Mar 25, 2008)

Michele,

Can you please let me know what trainer you're using? I really need to get one for Molly and I've been putting it off for long enough now.

I have problems with her attacking people's ankles. It used to just be men, now it could be anyone. It's driving me nuts b/c I don't trust her anymore! People are starting to fear her! The other day she went after a teacup yorkie the other day up at my kids' school. She usually plays with him, but for some reason she went to bite him!

She's acting normal in every other way, so I doubt it's anything medical. I just really need to get her trained asap!

Thanks, and good luck to you!!


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## Leeann (Feb 28, 2007)

Michele I'm sorry but I cant remember how old Shelby is but I was just talking to my trainer about Riley acting up with other dogs and she mentioned sometimes dogs between the age of 2 and 3 can go through an agression period and it needs to be stopped.

Thankfully after observing Riley's behavior she feels he is trying to play but not the right way and he could get hurt if another dog gets mad enough. He seems to do this more with big dogs so it does scare me some. We got to work with him a lot this weekend at my sisters where she has 3 big dogs. We spent a couple of days with them and he did get better but still need to be around more big dogs to work with it. Everyone at the playdate at Megans got to see how Riley kept going after Megan's Lizzie to play, she would put him in his place but he would still chase her to try and ingage her in some play. He was better and not jumping all over her but still nipping at her, almost like herding her.

Hopefully getting in touch with a good trainer and using positive training you will be able to nip this before it gets too bad. :hug:


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## dotndani (Mar 19, 2007)

Oh my! I am terribly sorry to hear about this.Hopefully the trainer will have some answers for you.
Good Luck!


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

This is the first I'm reading about this Michele. I'm so sorry you're going through this. It has to be disturbing to see such a change in behavior. I hope the trainer can point you in the right direction with it.

Susan, I hope you get to the bottom of the problem with Molly too.


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## good buddy (Feb 20, 2007)

Michelle, I'm sorry to hear about this!  I think you're right to be concerned and get it figured out right away. I bet it's something simple. Let us know what the trainer says.


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## LuvCicero (Mar 31, 2008)

Michele, I wish I could give you even a tiny idea of why this might be happening, but I can't. I had a Pom that was so sweet and friendly for years, then one day a neighbor can to pick up something. Punkin went right up to her, tail wagging, just happy and fine. The lady reached down and was rubbing her and talking to her then all of a sudden she attacked the lady's hand...but didn't break skin. Scared the heck out of me and the lady stared making excuses also..about smelling her dog. I mean the noise and action was like she was in a dog fight. I thought, and told the lady, that it must be her LONG fake nails. I thought one must have poked Punkin and she thought she was getting a shot.

To end this....that behavior never changed and we never could figure out why she did it. She acted so friendly and happy and let anyone rub and pet for a while -- then turned into a wild dog -- but never broke skin - just scared people. I always told people before they would pet her, "she will be good for a while, but 'almost' bite when she has had enough." The vet said that was what she was doing -- letting people know when she was done with the petting. That was the only bad behavior...but to me it was BAD. I know you are as upset as I was.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

I completely forgot about some dogs going through an aggressive stage as they get older - it's very possible that's what you are experiencing. What may have happened is that she's had minor "successes" with this behavior that didn't bother you but actually reinforced that it was okay.  Now it's escalated. I had a Keeshond puppy this happened with and because I didn't jump down her throat immediately, it escalated so badly that we had to place her in an only-pet home. We're sending good thoughts your way. Let us know what your trainer says.


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## maryam187 (Jul 18, 2007)

Michele, today's the day you meet with the trainer and I hope she'll have some great advice for you. I'm really interested in this because Pablo (at 9 months now) is still very oral and we constantly have to correct him and never let him get away with it, but it's exhausting and scares me.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Update - I finally had the chance to go over to the training center, and good thing. It was the last night of classes. They don't have classes again until end of August. But, I did get to talk to one of the trainers.

I explained what was going on and she asked some questions. She sort of thinks it might be the "terrible twos". Shelby is 21 mos old, so she is at that stage. She's going to call me so we can set up some training sessions. I'll keep you all posted.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Michele so glad you got to speak with a trainer. Her assessment must put your mind at ease a bit.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

At ease a bit, but not completely until she meets Shelby.


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## pjewel (Apr 11, 2007)

Michele,

I hope this is the answer and that the trainer can help you. Has Shelby done it again?


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

No, she hasn't done it, but she hasn't been in contact with people, other than us. But, we just got back from an errand and had the dogs with us. Shelby was in the back seat, which is her normal spot. We saw a guy we knew and stopped to talk to him. When he approached the car, she started to growl and give the little woof, growl, woof, growl. When I told her no, she stopped. 

If the street wasn't so busy, it would have been a good opportunity for me to introduce her to someone new. But it just wasn't the right circumstance.

It's just out of character for her. Ever since she was a pup, she has been exposed to lots of people. I took her to work every day, lots of people coming and going and she was always so friendly. We'll just have to wait and see. To be continued..........


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## Kathy (Nov 9, 2006)

irnfit said:


> I'm thinking it's some sort of confusion on her part on how to react with strangers. This woman is a neighbor that Shelby has been with before. So, I was thinking that when the woman stopped petting her, Shelby wanted more and her "alpha" side came out. Whatever it is, I will go see the trainer this week and see what she has to say.


This is what I was thinking too. She is ok while being loved and attention being given to her, but once it stops, she is letting it be known she doesn't want it to stop. Now, that isn't good behavior we humans will tolerate, so like training to sit, come, etc, she also needs to learn that isn't the proper way to ask to be petted. Did you say she was an "alpha"? Well, she is showing that "alpha" side of herself. I am so glad you are staying on top of it and seeking help before it could get out of hand.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Michele,
I just saw this thread and I'm so sorry to hear about the trouble you're having with Shelby. I know there have been a couple occations when Cooper has barked very aggressively at specific people, but not after being friendly. 

I hope you can work with the trainer soon and that she has some insight and tips that make a big impact on Shelby as this behavior is scarey and sad.

Good luck and I'm sure she'll be back to her normal self in no time.

Beverly


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Michele, any news from the trainer yet? Has she been over to see you and Shelby? 

Ricky growls/barks whenever they see anyone approaching, but at the same time, they are whimpering and pulling so they can go and greet them with tails a-wagging. I have tried getting them quiet before they get attention from visitors or dogs walking by, but still working on that. 

I'll be interested in hearing how things go. Good luck!


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## luv3havs (Jul 27, 2007)

Marj,
I have the same problem with Chico and Cali when we are out for a walk.
Cali is the main culprit and it happens mostly when they are together. If I take them out one at a time, it doesn't happen as much.
I have been picking Cali up when she does it and telling her no.
Then I walk the other way. This is helping a little.

They do sound ferocious, but I think they really would like to play with some of the dogs they growl at.


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## Leslie (Feb 28, 2007)

Marj and Nan~ Tori will do that too but, only sometimes :suspicious: I can't figure out what it is about some people approaching us that makes her growl, bark and pull. For awhile it seemed like it was men w/baseball caps that set her off but, I'm not so sure that's what it is now 

When she does it, I usually tell her "No, quiet! Ignore", then we pick up the pace and just keep on walking.


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## talemaker_havanese (Dec 4, 2007)

This is an old post but how did this workout? Make no mistake fear is shown in various ways and nipping is a fear reaction. You can get past it and you should not go the route of keeping them away from what they fear. They need slow and consistent but safe exposure to get over their fears to get balanced. 

If a dog is injured, it will bite if you touch that area. This is different and needs a vets intervention. 

Socialization and slow conditioning is IMPORTANT. If we keep them away from what they fear, the fear grows larger as you have validated that they have a reason to fear. Your emotions also run down the lead so if you are worried they will bite, they will feel that and react. It's tough for many but you can take a dog that has fear issues (all dogs do - they just need to learn coping skills and be exposed) and walk then with another dog that has the same and you get chaos. Walk then with a dog that is balanced and you get a dog that walks in a more stable manner. It's amazing to watch. We do it all the time with visitors. I get to know who should walk with whom to get them to gain their confidence.

We are blessed with a wonderful balanced pup - yes a puppy who takes any timid dog and reels them into play so they feel welcomed and have their spot. Once she does this, the pack accepts them faster. It only takes one connecting with one.

We recently had a dog here that was timid and by weeks end it was biting our alphas tail in play. It's a far cry from the first day. She was showing her assertiveness in a variety of ways. It was quite rewarding to see. A balanced pack helps them faster than any human but we are a critical part of the equation especially when they go home.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Hey this is as good as any place to ask the question - sorry to hijack your thread. This is about Buddy who's my rescue Maltese. He came from an abusive home with a young boy. We've worked with him and he no longer nips. Or so I thought. He's just started nipping the girls HARD when he's scared of their overly close loving. He adores his tummy loves from them and nicely tolerates being picked up, but I tell them not to pick him up since he isn't 100% reliable. He's never once actually connected with me - even when I really hurt him pulling out a knot (although I know he'd love to!).

Is this a fixable situation? Or do I seriously need to consider finding an adult only home for him?


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## talemaker_havanese (Dec 4, 2007)

Lisa:

Without assessing the dog, I do not know but is it fixable in theory? Yes. I would get help with kids. 

You correct. Your children take a leadership role vs. a playmate role and they stop playing and turn their back to them if your dog persists. All play stops if the dog doesn't play by the rules immediately and consistently. You have to do some self confident boosting playing.


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## Me&2Girls (May 11, 2007)

Thanks, I think it's fixable too but thought that I'd ask. I'll just have to get a bit more stringent. Plus they need to learn a bit more "leadership" techniques.


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