# Potty training - at what age was your puppy reliable?



## jay_39 (Sep 1, 2017)

I tried to find a thread discussing just this in terms of potty training but couldn't find one. I wanted to get an idea of the age at which your puppy was completely reliable with potty training. Just curious! Hopefully lots of folks will chime in. Thanks


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## Scarlett's mom (Feb 14, 2017)

Scarlett is now a year old. I have not left her free while I go out (she is gated in the kitchen) but she is free to roam in the house when I am here. She taught herself to ring bells to go out. She's been pretty good for a couple of months. Willow is 4 months and nowhere near reliable but I don't expect her to be yet.:grin2:


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

I felt that Leo and Rex were completely reliable by 2 years. Neither of them ever had more than a handful of accidents. But by reliable I mean that I can trust them completely in the house whether they are alone or if anyone else is around. They will come get a person to take them out and will hold it and persist in conveying that they need to go until they can get someone to take them out. The only time we have to pay much attention to their potty needs is when we have the rare snow. Re y doesn’t like to go in the snow so we have to watch him closely and really insist that he potties.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

I don't remember exactly how old Shama was when we considered her completely reliable, but I remember it taking longer than I'd imagined it would. Wherever we are now, she goes to a door or a sliding glass door to indicate that she wants to go out. If there's some urgency, she'll scratch the door with her front paws. DH recalls her being less than a year old, maybe nine months?


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## Genie1000 (Apr 13, 2017)

Penelope was starting to let us know she needed to go out reliably at about 4 months. She hasn’t had an accident inside since about 6 months or so.


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## cishepard (Apr 8, 2018)

Bingo is completely reliable at 6 months. I am semi-retired and only work 2 months out of the year. Till he was 5 months old I was home and we concentrated on frequent trips outside and big treat parties when he would “go”, using the command ‘Pee Time!”.

If you put a lot of effort into this phase, it pays off. I can go to work now and leave him loose in the house for six hours with no accidents.


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## kbritt (Sep 25, 2017)

Sore subject in my home right now! Patrick (6 months) has been mostly reliable since 4 months or so but has recently started squatting to pee in the house right in front of us! It's so frustrating because we are so careful to only let him outside of his gated kitchen/ hallway area after eliminating outside. My husband brought him out this afternoon then brought him to family room where he squatted and peed again! Grrrrrrr.........


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

kbritt said:


> My husband brought him out this afternoon then brought him to family room where he squatted and peed again! Grrrrrrr.........


 I remember moments like those. Hopefully they'll soon be in the past!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

kbritt said:


> Sore subject in my home right now! Patrick (6 months) has been mostly reliable since 4 months or so but has recently started squatting to pee in the house right in front of us! It's so frustrating because we are so careful to only let him outside of his gated kitchen/ hallway area after eliminating outside. My husband brought him out this afternoon then brought him to family room where he squatted and peed again! Grrrrrrr.........


Better that he feels comfortable in his misunderstanding and WILL squat in front of you. It's much harder when the owner teaches the puppy that it's not safe to eliminate in front of them, so they start to hide the behavior.

Back to closer confinement! He's still young.


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## kbritt (Sep 25, 2017)

Thanks for the input ladies. It's so disheartening when you think they've got the potty thing down and they don't. I look at him and know he is such a baby still, which helps to keep it all in perspective.


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

Tux is completely reliable at 2 years and has been since about 8 months or so. There are many factors at play, (just as with humans), to encourage bladders to do their thing, or to wait. I noticed when Tux chewed a cow tail, he became extremely thirsty and drank lots of water and had to pee more often. I switched from cow tails to an antler. He is pretty much bored with chewing now and prefers chasing after stuffed prey with squeaky things to gnawing. I take him out between 7:30 AM and 8. He goes again at 1 or 2 PM, and then at bedtime. I forget once in a blue moon, and realize he's not gone out for 9 or 10 hours. I feel guilty, but he doesn't seem to mind, and he always holds it. 

Taking your young pup out frequently is the best thing you can do to encourage their desire to pee anywhere other than your home. You have to stay ahead of their bladder religiously!!!! When the accident happens, sweep them up and go outside just so they know. Do NOT scold. Notice how long it has been between trips. Tux used to go out every 45 minutes!!!!! They have small and immature bladders and you can't rush mother nature, but you can condition your dog to WANT to pee away from the nest. That is instinctive anyway. You just have to take the time and be diligent. It will pay off for many many years.


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

I've had Perry since he was 8 months old (he's 2 now) and he's been completely reliable, even then, on tile or wood, but still thinks that throw rugs and bath mats are pee pads (we're working on that. The front door mat is currently sitting next to his toy box covered in toys... it will slowly move across the room next week and we haven't had an incidents on the bath mats in several months). I also have to watch him very carefully at my Mom's when we're in the US because the rugs there are old and have gone through many many many puppies and incontinent older dogs and the smells definitely make him think that it's the right place to go (plus the house set up doesn't allow me to see when he's at the door asking to go out, so I may miss his cues) - so we're usually back to every 2 hours like clockwork when we're there. But he's been fine in hotel rooms on those rugs since they don't have the 'right' smell to them.


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## kbritt (Sep 25, 2017)

When Patrick started training (at 9 weeks) our instructor told us that WE should be responsible for telling him when to go to the bathroom. I am home with him and have complied for all of these months by making sure he goes outside and eliminates numerous times a day. Now, however, I am afraid that Patrick really doesn't know how to "ask" and that when nature calls (for whatever reason) he is confused. Anyone have any advice on this part of the puzzle? Thanks!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

kbritt said:


> When Patrick started training (at 9 weeks) our instructor told us that WE should be responsible for telling him when to go to the bathroom. I am home with him and have complied for all of these months by making sure he goes outside and eliminates numerous times a day. Now, however, I am afraid that Patrick really doesn't know how to "ask" and that when nature calls (for whatever reason) he is confused. Anyone have any advice on this part of the puzzle? Thanks!!


It takes a LOT longer for a dog to work out an appropriate signal than it does for them to earn they shouldn't potty in the house. Some people teach their dogs to ring bells to go out. That's FANTASTIC if your dog buys into it. Kodi found the bells aversive. We worked on it for MONTHS and he studiously, and obviously avoided touching them at all costs. I finally took them down because they were scratching our woodwork, and he never used them. So, like you, while we didn't have any accidents, I also wasn't sure who was "trained". Him or me?  All of a sudden just past his second birthday, I heard a very funny "woof" from him, that he'd never used before. I went to see what was up, and he was standing at the door. Of course, I took him right out and praised him profusely. The switch had flipped, and that was his signal from then on. The funniest thing with him is that since then, we remodeled our kitchen and fenced the backyard. When he was younger, we took him out the front door on leash. Now he can go out into the yard by himself but through the kitchen door. For several years after the "door change", he would still go and "woof" at the front door, then when he heard me getting up, would run to the back door to go out! Silly boy!

Pixel learned early to scratch on the glass of the French doors to go out (or come in). Panda is the funniest. She runs and walks around on the litter box (which I can hear) then runs to the door. If I'm not around or if the weather is really bad, she'll use the litter box. Otherwise, she just uses it as a signal. LOL! But she also signals the least, because she also goes out every time either of the others do.

But most of the time, they don't need to give me a signal. They go out before breakfast, then sometime between 10 and 1, depending on my schedule. If it's on the early side, sometimes they'll ask to go out again mid-afternoon. Then they go out around supper time, and once more before bed. So it's only if there is a change in the routine that they are likely to need to tell me they need to go out.


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## kbritt (Sep 25, 2017)

Thanks for that Karen! It's nice to read about others' experiences and to know that one day something will click for our little guy and he'll become reliable🙂


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## DuketheDog (May 1, 2017)

I would say at just over a year Duke is 99.8% he knows how to ask to go outside, understanding that inside the house it a no no. However he is still young and there has been times where we were playing with the ball and he got so into playing he forgot that he needed to pee and he just started peeing, it was like he was having so much fun and it just came! ALSO I noticed that at other peoples houses where he is unfamiliar it takes him a bit to realize where he needs to go to ask to get outside, he will try and mark inside the house... which also could be from other dogs in the home too. 

Anyway I'm over the moon on how well he did with learning to go outside, I do look back and think wow it was rough the first few months of having him!


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

The key to housetraining a puppy is to always give them an opportunity to get it "right" , whether that's on a pad /litter box or outside. For us Molly was never unreliable. We took her out every hour and rewarded her for going outside. We never used an indoor option such as an expen or a crate. She slept on our bed from day one. She had one "accident" at about six months of age, but that was our fault as we were late getting home and she most likely just couldn't hold it any longer. Not for everyone. ,but worked for us. She had free roam and stayed alone from 16 weeks old.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

davetgabby said:


> The key to housetraining a puppy is to always give them an opportunity to get it "right" , whether that's on a pad /litter box or outside. For us Molly was never unreliable. We took her out every hour and rewarded her for going outside. We never used an indoor option such as an expen or a crate. She slept on our bed from day one. She had one "accident" at about six months of age, but that was our fault as we were late getting home and she most likely just couldn't hold it any longer. Not for everyone. ,but worked for us. She had free roam and stayed alone from 16 weeks old.


She sounds like a dream, and you sound like dedicated owners. We need some pictures of Molly from puppy to now . . . :laugh2:


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

no recent pics as I don't even have a smart phone anymore. here's one as a pup and one of her and me a few years ago . She now is cut short as we now are not able to groom her so easy with our disabilities. We have a mobile grooming service comes to the house every 2 months so she still is beautiful at 13 years.


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

davetgabby said:


> no recent pics as I don't even have a smart phone anymore. here's one as a pup and one of her and me a few years ago . She now is cut short as we now are not able to groom her so easy with our disabilities. We have a mobile grooming service comes to the house every 2 months so she still is beautiful at 13 years.


Molly is so beautiful and you must send her down south to me at once. My climate is warmer.

Shama's momma thank you for asking for pictures of Molly, I have read all the smart stuff posted and seen that little beautiful dog postage stamp and wondered about the pretty dog owned by the egg head.:nerd:


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## Tux's Mom (May 24, 2016)

We usually go by the clock so there has been no need for a signal, however once we were at an outdoor restaurant for breakfast only a few weeks ago. About 3/4 way thru the meal, Tux started doing this little quiet "whine-whimper" thing.....which we had never experienced. We couldn't get him to stay quiet even though he wasn't being loud. We figured he was getting tired of sitting and wanted to leave (which was not like him either). After we got up, Tux started pulling us toward the grass. It suddenly dawned on us that for the first time ever he hadn't pooped in the AM when he always did. Boy did we feel stupid. We were making comments that maybe we would have to leave him home from now on, and blah blah blah, when all he wanted was to go poop!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

We have a puppy that turned six weeks last weekend. There are no pictures on our website, because we already had a list, and everyone would be wanting him. 

He's the only singleton we've ever had. We were concerned, at first, about him not having other puppies his age to spend his first weeks with, but it's not a problem. The pack is helping us raise him.

We have a litter box in the great room, and he has access to the puppy room behind the great room, that has litter boxes.

He has had the run of that part of our house since a little before he turned six weeks. He uses the litter boxes, and I don't think ever soiled the bedding in his whelping box, or expen.

A few days ago, he stopped using the litter box in the great room, and even after going in the kitchen to get a drink of water, he will run all the way back into the puppy room to use a box.

Today, he was whining at the door to the bedroom that his expen is in. I jumped up, and saw that there were too many dogs back in the puppy room, and scooped him up, stepping over the gate into his bedroom, and placed him in his litter box. He stretched out to pee. I stood very still, but praised him the instant he finished, and picked him right up, carrying him back into the house.

He was very proud of himself, and I was of him.

I would say that he is already reliable at not quite 7 weeks. Sorry, he's not available.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

davetgabby said:


> she still is beautiful at 13 years.


Yes, she is. And she was an adorable puppy! Thank you very much for posting her photos.

I don't know how people can have other kinds of dogs. None are as beautiful as the HAVANESE!


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Tom King said:


> We have a puppy that turned six weeks last weekend. There are no pictures on our website, because we already had a list, and everyone would be wanting him . . . I would say that he is already reliable at not quite 7 weeks. Sorry, he's not available.


Thanks for sharing that great (and inspiring!) story!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tux's Mom said:


> We usually go by the clock so there has been no need for a signal, however once we were at an outdoor restaurant for breakfast only a few weeks ago. About 3/4 way thru the meal, Tux started doing this little quiet "whine-whimper" thing.....which we had never experienced. We couldn't get him to stay quiet even though he wasn't being loud. We figured he was getting tired of sitting and wanted to leave (which was not like him either). After we got up, Tux started pulling us toward the grass. It suddenly dawned on us that for the first time ever he hadn't pooped in the AM when he always did. Boy did we feel stupid. We were making comments that maybe we would have to leave him home from now on, and blah blah blah, when all he wanted was to go poop!


Kodi is always VERy good about settling and being quiet in his crate at shows and class. I have learned over the years to trust him... If he's making a (very quiet) fuss in his crate, he DOES have a reason.  But I learned it the hard way, just like you... It was just a long time ago now!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> We have a puppy that turned six weeks last weekend. There are no pictures on our website, because we already had a list, and everyone would be wanting him.
> 
> He's the only singleton we've ever had. We were concerned, at first, about him not having other puppies his age to spend his first weeks with, but it's not a problem. The pack is helping us raise him.
> 
> ...


Is this Rosie's pup? I BET there is a line for him.


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## chataboutthat (Jun 6, 2013)

Tippi was a year old before I felt like I could trust her. And to this day, I'm not convinced that SHE'S trained as much as I am. She's on a schedule and we just don't deviate. It works for us. Morning, mid-afternoon (she goes to work with me), evening, and right before bed.

I'll say this though, Tippi is my first Hav. Breeds that I have had in the past were much easier to potty train. When I was bemoaning the potty training difficulty to a good friend one time (she's almost 6 now, so this was years ago), my friend looked at me and said, "I'm not sure I understand what you want. If you wanted a Rhodes Scholar why'd you choose the head cheerleader?" At the time I thought it was pretty funny, but as Tippi's gotten older, I'm pretty sure she could be a Rhodes Scholar too!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

chataboutthat said:


> Tippi was a year old before I felt like I could trust her. And to this day, I'm not convinced that SHE'S trained as much as I am. She's on a schedule and we just don't deviate. It works for us. Morning, mid-afternoon (she goes to work with me), evening, and right before bed.
> 
> I'll say this though, Tippi is my first Hav. Breeds that I have had in the past were much easier to potty train. When I was bemoaning the potty training difficulty to a good friend one time (she's almost 6 now, so this was years ago), my friend looked at me and said, "I'm not sure I understand what you want. If you wanted a Rhodes Scholar why'd you choose the head cheerleader?" At the time I thought it was pretty funny, but as Tippi's gotten older, I'm pretty sure she could be a Rhodes Scholar too!


I'm sure she could! Havanese are VERY smart and biddable as a breed.  They were used as circus dogs in Europe, and for good reason. Potty training, I think, with little dogs, is a different issue. Big dogs very instinctively understand the whole home as "den". For our small breed dogs, the whole house is often an overwhelming amount of space. That can't ALL be "den". So it takes longer for them to grasp the idea that it is ALL off-limits for pottying.

This seems to be an across the board issue with small breed dogs. In general (there are individuals who train faster) Toy breeds seem to take longer to potty train than large breed puppies. ...And among toy breeds, Havanese are FAR from the worst! Several of the people I've known with Yorkies and Chihuahuas have just given up. The dogs are kept away from carpets at all times, and always have close access to pee pads. Even then, when I've been to play dates with these breeds, the owners come with a "diaper bag" full of cleaning supplies, and just follow their dog around, cleaning up. Kodi was totally horrified. He wouldn't get off my lap. LOL!


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

krandall said:


> Is this Rosie's pup? I BET there is a line for him.


Fyre and Red. He's a gorgeous red with probably too much white to call him a Pied.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> Fyre and Red. He's a gorgeous red with probably too much white to call him a Pied.


Oh, that's right. I forgot that she was the pregnant one. I BET he's gorgeous!


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*Crate rest*



Tux's Mom said:


> We usually go by the clock so there has been no need for a signal, however once we were at an outdoor restaurant for breakfast only a few weeks ago. About 3/4 way thru the meal, Tux started doing this little quiet "whine-whimper" thing.....which we had never experienced. We couldn't get him to stay quiet even though he wasn't being loud. We figured he was getting tired of sitting and wanted to leave (which was not like him either). After we got up, Tux started pulling us toward the grass. It suddenly dawned on us that for the first time ever he hadn't pooped in the AM when he always did. Boy did we feel stupid. We were making comments that maybe we would have to leave him home from now on, and blah blah blah, when all he wanted was to go poop!


As long as the throw rugs are off the floor Perry has been very reliable for a while now. He goes to the door, scratches on it... and if I don't respond then he does it again then comes over and stares at me. When he was on crate rest and tethered to me when he was out of the crate, I had a hard time telling if he was just getting antsy sitting on the couch with me or if he needed to go out. So, when his restlessness didn't clue me in, he's stop, sit, look at me and give me 1 bark. I'm sure a havanese-English translation would have been something like "are you daft Mom? I NEED TO GO OUT!"


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## Marni (Apr 1, 2017)

*Mine are Reliably Paper Trained*



Tom King said:


> Fyre and Red. He's a gorgeous red with probably too much white to call him a Pied.


I think you should post his picture so we can all drool over him. We on the Forum share tragedy and joy, so I think it is very mean to hold back...

I love that someone out there thinks of our breed as cheerleaders.

I think the important thing to take from Tom's postings on this thread is how important it is to pick a breeder that spends time potty training puppies. Tom and Pam get all theirs familiar with the routine.

On one breeder's website I saw that she charged extra for this service and then kept puppies for ten weeks instead of eight. I saw that as a reason to believe that breeder's heart was not in the right place. I think that since small dog potty reliability is the number one reasons little guys are surrendered it is imperative that all breeders do what they can to familiarize puppies with this routine.

Zoey, Kosmo and Joy wanted to demonstrate paper training while I was keying teasing and praising posting for Tom.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree. "Potty training" between 8-10 weeks is WAY too late. The good breeders I know, including the Kings, start potty training as puppies start to leave the whelping box on their own, at about 3 weeks.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Actually, it's before they leave the whelping box. They stay in the box until they can climb out, usually around 4 weeks, but the box is big enough for a potty area separate from the sleeping area.

Here's a pic of Solo. The first family on the list is coming for their second visit to see him this weekend. The second family on the list is dissapointed that the first family wants him.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> Actually, it's before they leave the whelping box. They stay in the box until they can climb out, usually around 4 weeks, but the box is big enough for a potty area separate from the sleeping area.
> 
> Here's a pic of Solo. The first family on the list is coming for their second visit to see him this weekend. The second family on the list is disappointed that the first family wants him.


Well, I knew it was REALLY early! 8-10 weeks puts the puppy SERIOUSLY behind. They've learned a lot of bad habits if a breeder waits until that age to start potty training!

Solo is to-die-for cute!!! He is going to make one happy family!!!


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## Chi-Chi's Mom (Dec 10, 2015)

Tom King said:


> Actually, it's before they leave the whelping box. They stay in the box until they can climb out, usually around 4 weeks, but the box is big enough for a potty area separate from the sleeping area.
> 
> Here's a pic of Solo. The first family on the list is coming for their second visit to see him this weekend. The second family on the list is dissapointed that the first family wants him.


I can see why...he is gorgeous!


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## Arlo (Apr 26, 2018)

This is all somewhat reassuring to a new visitor here (hello!) Hopefully there is still time for our almost 7 mos old (Arlo) lol! We've been using a bell, and I'd say about 1/3 of the time he rings it, goes out and does his business, and we praise him profusely. 1/3 he rings it, and either gets distracted (he'll literally be about to squat, then hear a car door shut and stop), or just wanted to go out and sniff around. 1/3 he will just stand at the door (right next to the bell!) and whine, or grab our pant legs or something else to tell us he wants to go out. It's less about accidents (because we take him out hourly at the very least--sometimes he rings the bell repeatedly, and we try to be consistent...) and more about us being frustrated over false alarms and constantly taking him out. Argh! We've also been saying "get busy" on repeat since we brought him home (8 weeks), but I'm pretty sure it has not sunk in. Reading about those of you taking your dogs out a few times a day has me hopeful (and jealous!)

The good news is I left him for the longest time so far this week (4 hours in the xpen) and he held it!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Unfortunately, with bell training, you HAVE to answer the bell EVERY TIME, for a long time. Eventually, the "novelty" ringing (... just to see if it works ) tends to wear off over time.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Don't put words to name a behavior until after you get the behavior. Theb add the name, but the timing has to be perfect. To say a word, over and over, means nothing to a dog. It's only noise.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Tom King said:


> Don't put words to name a behavior until after you get the behavior. Then add the name, but the timing has to be perfect. To say a word, over and over, means nothing to a dog. It's only noise.


Absolutely!:


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## Melissa Brill (Feb 22, 2017)

*scratching*



krandall said:


> Unfortunately, with bell training, you HAVE to answer the bell EVERY TIME, for a long time. Eventually, the "novelty" ringing (... just to see if it works ) tends to wear off over time.


Same goes for whatever the signal is - you can't start, for example, ignoring the scratching at the door or whining by the door until they've got the behavior solid (i.e. they know they get to go out). It's one of the reasons why I am so thankful that the last two dogs I had to house train I had a fenced yard because then it's just a matter of leaving the door open AND if it's closed jumping to open it for them every. single. time. they scratch.

Perry's at the point where I can ignore him once in a while, but I still try to let him out almost every time (and when I do, I tell him to potty as soon as he goes out.) Many of the times he just wants to go whine at the fence toward the neighbors dog, but I'm still ensuring that he knows that it gets him outside when he needs to potty.


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