# New problems with New puppy



## Nora (Feb 12, 2019)

I've only had my new puppy for 9 days but some problems have come up. The first 2 nights we had her (breeder had her before that) she was in a small crate without a pee pad. This was done upon the recommendation of the breeder who was following this procedure herself. This was meant to teach my pup to hold it overnight. During the day, the breeder trained my pup on pee pads. During the day we have my pup in a nice sized pen with pee pads. All was going well and Her stools were firm and She used her pads. However, after the first 2 nights She started to poop in her overnight crate. she has been waking us every night at 2-3 AM since with poop on herself and the crate. We thought that dogs do not like to poop where they sleep so we are puzzled by this. The stools are part hard and part soft. We do not understand why her overnight pattern suddenly changed. During the day she uses her pad. We had a stool sample tested by the Vet. No parasites. She is eating the same food that the breeder fed her and nothing new. I started to consult with a trainer. The trainer said to put my pup in a larger overnight pen with a pee pad since We are doing indoor potty training. We will try that tonight. Is that the right approach? Now we are confused because the breeder and trainer differ in their recommendations. Does anyone have insights into this problem? Thanks.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

If the crate you are using is too large for her it may be why she is pooping in there. It should only be large enough for her to stand up and turn around. After she is consistently keeping her crate clean overnight you can gradually increase the size. Otherwise, I think the pen with a pee pad in it is a good idea too.


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## Nora (Feb 12, 2019)

The pen was only large enough for my puppy to lie down and stand up and turn around. I had a divider in there. Why does she poop in this small space?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

I would never encourage a puppy to eliminate in their crate. Isn't this the same trainer who was against indoor training to start with? I don't think they understand the concept at all.

If she has been taught to keep her crate and bedding clean by the breeder, and it sounds like she has, these incidents are accidents. Plain and simple. Clean them up, clean her up, and go on with life. I hope her crate is close enough to you that you can hear her if she needs to get up during the night. Sometimes they physically CANNOT wait until morning. Just like people. Then you MUST take her out.

If that is not an option, the other possibility is to set her up with an OPEN crate inside an expen, with a pee pad in the expen, so she can leave her crate independently, use her pee pad if she needs to, then return to her clean bed. Kodi, my older one had this arrangement when he was a puppy, because my husband, at that point, didn't want a dog in the bedroom. Since then he caved. Now all three of them are in the bedroom, and one actually sleeps in the bed with us! LOL!

Below is a photo of Kodi's "bedroom" showing the crate attached to one end of his expen, with his litter box on the other end. You can also put a smaller crate inside the expen when they are younger, but beware, many will quickly learn they can climb onto the crate and escape the expen!


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## Nora (Feb 12, 2019)

This is not the same trainer that did not want to do indoor potty training. This is another trainer. 

My puppy did not cry until AFTER she pooped in the crate. we did not know that she had to poop otherwise we would have taken her to her pee pad which is in her pen in a different room. Her crate for overnight is right next to my bed.

I am not sure if I have enough space to leave her crate open in a pen in my bedroom. space is tight.


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## Nora (Feb 12, 2019)

I just checked and there is room for leaving the overnight crate with the door open in the pen with a pee pad. I will try that tonight. But can you explain why that is better than leaving my pup in the pen with the pee pad without the overnight crate? I do not really see much of a difference.


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## Molly120213 (Jan 22, 2014)

Nora said:


> I just checked and there is room for leaving the overnight crate with the door open in the pen with a pee pad. I will try that tonight. But can you explain why that is better than leaving my pup in the pen with the pee pad without the overnight crate? I do not really see much of a difference.


Many puppies sleep better in the cozy "den like" feel of the crate. Notice how Karen has blankets over the crate in the picture to give that effect.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

I know a lot of people have said their puppies slept through the night right from the beginning, especially people with big dogs, but mine did not. It was absolutely developmental - he went immediately and he went back to sleep right afterwards. It only lasted a couple of weeks, and actually those instances were helpful to me in the big picture of potty training because he always went right away, which is something I could praise. 

Later came a completely separate behavior when our puppy could hold it all night (but was still young enough that he was waking up early in the morning). After his early potty time he wanted to stay awake and play. We weren’t ready to wake up yet and wanted to go back to bed! That could be what your trainer is trying to prevent/address. There are a few ways to manage that, but to me a puppy wanting to play at the wrong time is a separate issue from a puppy who just can’t hold it yet. 

For the first few weeks our puppy woke up in the night all of the time, but it quickly decreased. It didn’t stop completely for a while though. I’m a light sleeper so I could hear him getting restless and knew he needed to go, and I took him outside or to the potty tray downstairs. I do think your puppy is trying to tell you what’s going on, she’s just vocalizing it after the fact. if she’s going potty in her crate at 2am, personally I would set an alarm for 1am and take her potty, just for a short time. You’ll know when she can go longer, and it will be soon. Don’t engage with her too much, and put her right back in her crate afterwards. I think preventing an accident in the crate is the most important thing. It sounds to me like she’s getting it - she’s not just laying in her poop, she’s asking for help. 

I do think adjusting the crate with the expen is a good idea, too, especially if she’s figuring out the pee pads during the day. The goal is to prevent an accident in the sleeping area, whether you take her potty or she goes on the pad in the ex pen. If it’s developmental it won’t be long until she can hold it all night, so the ex pen in your bedroom doesnt necessarily have to be permanent. It’s just a matter of preventing accidents in the meantime.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Nora said:


> No parasites. She is eating the same food that the breeder fed her and nothing new.


With regard to stool changes, are you feeding the same amount of food on the same schedule? Have you added any new treats she did not have before? Water also can be different. Some are on well water. Others on city water. Some filter and some do not. For a small puppy, wondering if different water could have some impact.

As far as letting you know when she has an emergency in the night, my dogs are in crates in our bedroom and Mia is very clear if she has to go out. However, my yorkie does not make a peep!!! He just gets restless in his crate which eventually wakes me up. I am not sure if there are other dogs like him. I wish he would be more vocal about it. He was very easily potty trained and has never had an accident in the house since he was 10 weeks old. I am wondering if he is just trying really hard to hold it. I should have taught indoor potty training but never even knew such a thing existed. These are my first dogs and as a newbie there are many things I could have done better.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Karen, I cannot help asking this question...which dog gets to sleep in your bed...or do you rotate dogs?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Nora said:


> This is not the same trainer that did not want to do indoor potty training. This is another trainer.
> 
> My puppy did not cry until AFTER she pooped in the crate. we did not know that she had to poop otherwise we would have taken her to her pee pad which is in her pen in a different room. Her crate for overnight is right next to my bed.
> 
> I am not sure if I have enough space to leave her crate open in a pen in my bedroom. space is tight.


Then treat it as an accident, clean her and the crate up and move on. Little children have accidents during training too. You said you've only had her 9 days s, and she is very young.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Nora said:


> I just checked and there is room for leaving the overnight crate with the door open in the pen with a pee pad. I will try that tonight. But can you explain why that is better than leaving my pup in the pen with the pee pad without the overnight crate? I do not really see much of a difference.


I suppose you could, but the crate is a cozy, comforting place to sleep. And if your intent is for her to eventually sleep crated, she should get used to it now. But that is up to you and her. I just would not put a potty inside a crate.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Karen, I cannot help asking this question...which dog gets to sleep in your bed...or do you rotate dogs?


Panda. Kodi ONLY likes to sleep in his crate, and DEMANDS that we close the door for him, or he whines until we do. Pixel is the "cat dog"... we've tried letting her sleep with us, but she walks all over us or wants to sleep on top of our faces... not conducive to good sleep. So she is crated too. Panda is the perfect "bed dog". She snuggles in between Dave and me, stretched straight out on her back, all four paws in the air, and sleeps like that, without a twitch, all night long! LOL!

They all snuggle on the bed with us before we go to sleep, and again in the morning, before we get up.


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

Patti, also, sleeps in our bed but we didn't start that until she was a little older, which was around 5-months. Before that Patti slept in a wire covered crate in our bedroom. Around that time we moved to Colorado for the summer and I put her sleeping crate in a room - close - but outside of our bedroom. We didn't have a lot room in the bedroom.

She started waking and barking every couple of hours, which was a change. Typically, she either slept through the night or would wake once. I was afraid to NOT let her out to potty when she barked, as I didn't want her to go in the crate. It was a new situation and she learned if she barked I'd take her out to potty on the potty tray. 

Out of exhaustion I put her in our bed one night, with the leash on because I didn't want her jumping off the bed and running around. That solved my problem, she slept through the night. 

We keep the bedroom door closed and Patti moves around. She starts out on the floor, moves to an ottoman, to the bed and then back again. Ending up in our bed by morning. She doesn't bother us and prefers sleeping at the foot of the bed, until time to wake up in the morning, then she'll cozy up for a short time next to my husband. She gets hot and cozy sleeping is not conducive to cozy sleeping.:tea:


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Our puppy rotates between sleeping in our bed and in a little makeshift den in our room. Even though it’s the room he sleeps in, i’m pretty sure it’s the only room in the house without a dog bed. We had one in there for a while but he never slept in it so I moved it somewhere else where he does occasionally lay on it. 

He was reliable with potty training in our bedroom pretty early. Seeing this helped me understand the process and train in different rooms. I think room specific potty training is the most helpful potty training tip (other than the whole concept of indoor potty training) I ever received.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Oh and he does walk all over us when he’s getting on and off the bed! I don’t mind though, I must be weird because I think it’s cute. My husband is such a heavy sleeper, he doesn’t even notice.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

OK, now I’ll ‘fess up about how Panda ended up in the bed. Normally, as most people here know, I am pretty strict about training my dogs. I make the rules, even though I believe in positive training methods.

Panda had been sleeping in a crate in our room, just like the other two, no problems at all. Everyone got a cookie and hopped into their crates. We still don’t know whta changed, but all of a sudden, Panda didn’t want to go into her crate at night. We would out her in and she would refuse her cookie and look pitiful. Then she would cry. And cry. And cry. And never settle down. Of course we checked that she didn’t need to potty. She kept it up for hours, and kept us awake in the process. We tried a variety of things, from ignoring, to covering her crate, to moving her crate to another room, to banging on her crate and telling her to stop... nothing made a difference. ...until we gave up and let her get in bed with us. Instant quiet, happy girl.

I was talking to my obedience istructor about it, and she asked, “is there a reason she HAS to sleep in the crate” ummmm, not REALLY... so Panda became the “bed dog! LOL! Little spoiled diva!

The funny thing is when we are camping, our travel trailer has a bigeer than average bed, a residential queen. But still, it’s a little small for two very tall people plus a dog. So we decided to try and see what she’d do in her crate in the trailer. (Which is where she’d always slept in there before) for some reason, she is absolutely fine sleeping in the crate in the trailer!


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

EvaE1izabeth said:


> He was reliable with potty training in our bedroom pretty early. Seeing this helped me understand the process and train in different rooms. *I think room specific potty training is the most helpful potty training tip* (other than the whole concept of indoor potty training) I ever received.


YES! :tea: One room at a time is the way to do it.


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## mudpuppymama (Mar 24, 2012)

Thanks Karen for sharing your story of how Panda became the bed dog. Wonder what caused her change of heart. Both my dogs are like Kodi and demand to go into their crates. It is getting darker earlier and they seem confused as to why we are not going up to bed sooner! The only time Mia does not like being in her crate is if there is a bad storm. Then she wants to be in a bathroom which we refer to as Mia’s storm shelter. I am glad they don’t like going on our bed since it is very high and I am afraid they might get knocked off and hurt themselves. We also have lots of ticks here and the thought of a tick in my bed freaks me out! I do check them thoroughly each day but ticks are easy to miss.


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## nwhavmom (Feb 2, 2019)

When we got our most recent pup at 9 weeks, I took him out every night at 10 PM, 2 AM and 6 AM for a few months. As a little pup, it is harder to predict when they need to poop and it seems to be much more often than when they are a little older. Potty training was a number one priority so I was very disciplined, which made my pup successful. He slept in a crate next to my side of the bed at that time but since about 6 months he has slept in our bed  He seems to be so happy to be with us at night that he doesn't leave the foot of the bed. Now at 9 months he goes out at 10 PM and sleeps until 6 AM. The few accidents he has had were related to post neuter potty regression ( during the day), which was easy to get back on track. I believe we are the key to the pups being successful. If we show them often enough on a very consistent basis where they need to go with praise/treats, they figure it out. When my pup had accidents, I can say it was my fault for not taking him out often enough or seeing the subtle signals.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

mudpuppymama said:


> Thanks Karen for sharing your story of how Panda became the bed dog. Wonder what caused her change of heart. Both my dogs are like Kodi and demand to go into their crates. It is getting darker earlier and they seem confused as to why we are not going up to bed sooner! The only time Mia does not like being in her crate is if there is a bad storm. Then she wants to be in a bathroom which we refer to as Mia's storm shelter. I am glad they don't like going on our bed since it is very high and I am afraid they might get knocked off and hurt themselves. We also have lots of ticks here and the thought of a tick in my bed freaks me out! I do check them thoroughly each day but ticks are easy to miss.


We haven't got a clue what changed her furry little mind! LOL! She has notroble getting on and off the bed by herself, but she doesn't, and she can't fall or get pushed off because she sleeps between us.


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## Tom King (Aug 2, 2006)

Our dogs had to stop sleeping on the bed when we ran out of corners. Ours all like to go in their crates at night, and look at us funny if we're staying up late for any reason.

When we're raising a new puppy, we always make sure they're well worn out from playing, and have been potty before bed. It's rare that they don't start sleeping through the night by the time we start them in crates at about 9 weeks old.


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## EvaE1izabeth (Nov 14, 2017)

Tom King said:


> Our dogs had to stop sleeping on the bed when we ran out of corners. Ours all like to go in their crates at night, and look at us funny if we're staying up late for any reason.
> 
> When we're raising a new puppy, we always make sure they're well worn out from playing, and have been potty before bed. It's rare that they don't start sleeping through the night by the time we start them in crates at about 9 weeks old.


At 8:30, any time someone moves around, my 2 year old Havanese runs to the stairs to wait. His favorite thing is when everyone goes up at the same time and we sit on my bed for a few minutes to play with him and chat. When the kids head for their own rooms he lays longingly at the end of the bed, waiting for them to come back! He loves it when we're all together. He also think it's weird when I'm pacing around working on stuff downstairs and it's night time.


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## Vshort (Aug 20, 2018)

I also would not put a potty in the crate to encourage pottying in there. I set an alarm and took my puppy out twice during the night for a few weeks then once during the night for a few weeks. Although I do not have an ex pen or any inside pottying so i did not have exactly the same goals as you. She did have a few accidents in her crate and I was worried, sounded like that shouldn’t have happened or was not ideal but it all worked out and did not continue. When they are little they can’t hold it overnight yet but that will change soon. They also poop more frequently from what I remember. Ours was 9 or 10 wks when we got her. She’s now 15 months. Pottying has very gradually changed /improved and now she does great overnight (in our bed) and long stretches during the day, she stays in her crate when we aren’t here, no crate accident or accidents in the house in many months. She whines at me if she needs to go out (mainly for a morning poop if she needs to go before our walk or in the evening since she pees more frequently then).


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## PensiveRN (Jul 7, 2019)

krandall said:


> I would never encourage a puppy to eliminate in their crate. Isn't this the same trainer who was against indoor training to start with? I don't think they understand the concept at all.
> 
> If she has been taught to keep her crate and bedding clean by the breeder, and it sounds like she has, these incidents are accidents. Plain and simple. Clean them up, clean her up, and go on with life. I hope her crate is close enough to you that you can hear her if she needs to get up during the night. Sometimes they physically CANNOT wait until morning. Just like people. Then you MUST take her out.
> 
> ...


Karen, What do you use as a liner in the ex pen that protects your hardwood floor?


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## Mikki (May 6, 2018)

PensiveRN said:


> Karen, What do you use as a liner in the ex pen that protects your hardwood floor?


I went to carpet and tile store and bought a linoleum flooring remnant. I've also used this to put potty trays on when those trays are on carpet.


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## Melissa Woods (Feb 21, 2019)

As far as pooping in the crate I think she’s trying to communicate to you but just not making it, as others have said. 

I made it top priority to potty train Oliver (working on some other stuff now that he’s 9 months old and reliable!) He became a bed dog for a couple of reasons. One, he’s such a cuddly dog he wants to be with me all the time. Even when I leave him with my husband or kids he cries for 10 minutes or so. It’s just his nature to want that comfort. 

BUT. I discovered something awesome about letting him stay in my bed around 3.5 months old. He would NEVER potty in my bed. We had an ex pen set up with the crate and he’d pee all over the ex pen (eventually he stopped doing that). Since he’d wake me to potty and actually sleep through the night, not cry OR pee/ poop in my bed, I absolutely let him stay there!


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