# Aggression



## susanpavlow (Dec 29, 2006)

my dog i s is very agreesive what can i do


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Hi Susan,
I really don't know too much about solving aggression problems, but maybe a little bit more information might help others give you some tips. What is the dogs age, sex, is it altered, an only dog, who is it aggressive towards, are there particular situations when it is aggressive, or is it all the time? Any kind of info along those lines might give some insight. Does the dog act dominant also, or does the aggression seem to come from it being scared?
I will be very interested to see if anyone has any suggestions for you. 
Best of luck Susan,

Beverly


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

Yes I agree with Beverly . Need to know more about every thing when does the dog act in that matter? How old was he when you got him and what kind of living did the dog have before you got him was any one mean to him ect that is very helpful when asking this kind of question people here are very helpful Susan E


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## cjxxBuster (Jan 1, 2007)

how old is your dog, when does the aggression happen, is it territorial, or is he frightened, does it happen with you or just other people. Happy and waiting to help.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

What exactly makes you say he is aggressive . Is he biting you nipping you .
Like others have said in their posts what is the age of the dog . Is he a puppy or adult .. You may need professional help . Talk to your Vet . Let him know what you are experiencing and he can refer you .
Also get somedog training books . Cesars way is a good introduction . Your dog is aggressive for a reason . Remember you are the pack leader - they look to you for help and direction .. 
Is it just a matter of getting tolknow about your dog . Some are a little more dominant and you need to help them by setting boundaries ..


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Kodi, 14 mos old male is very sweet, gives hugs and kisses all the time. The only time he has shown any aggression is whe he has been afraid. Shelby, ou new 14 week old female is a little more aggressive, especially when she is tired. She will growl and snap when she doesn't want to be bothered. My daughter came over with her two puppies today (Dachshunds) and she just growled and snarled the whole time they were here. But I know she was afraid, because she wouldn't get off my lap. 

Puppy classes worked great for Kodi, because he was very fearful of other dogs. By week 5 of classes, he just wanted to play with all of them, big and small. So once Shelby has her last shots, I'll probably take her to classes also.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Hello Everyone, I am in DIRE need of advise. Little Oreo for this past week seems to have developed the need to Growl and Bark LOUDLY at other dogs. He loves people but dogs are another matter. He is still very shy at the puppy class and will avoid the other dogs when its playtime - he keeps his distance. I am trying to stay as calm as possible and I am now monitoring my thoughts when I walk him and during that class. Now, in his puppy class he as not displayed this agression but he tries to hide behind my legs. What do I do? I am not petting him during these episodes, but do I pull him out from behind me to meet the other dogs in puppy class or leave him alone? When walking, do I just keep moving and ignore his behaviour? Help?!


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

the trainer that came to our house Sunday, told us that food is one of the best distractors. she has us treating the dogs, when the doorbell rings, when they see another dog, when a stranger comes in. She said that they are so interested in the treats that eventually the things going on around them are not that scary anymore. You also have to make sure that he is Hungry when you do the training. Then the treats are a big motivator. We have been ringing the doorbell while treating. Lily runs to the door barking but comes back for treats again, so at leaset it is not constant at the door. Your puppy class trainer should also be helping you on this!!!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Thanks Laurie. After your post I immediately called my trainer and she told me very similar along the lines. But she also told me that we just need to strive for "no stress" on Oreo's part. We need to distract him with treats when a dog is about to get to that "trigger" distance and eventually with time he will realize that dogs approaching is good or an okay occurance and not to be alarmed. He is very good in the puppy class and comes out of his shell, my concern is on the streets when walking him - very different when we are indoors with the instructor. She suggested I observe my thoughts and feelings, and also to observe my son when he takes him out for walks to see what kind of message he is giving the dog. I believe this all started this past week since my son has been taking him out more often -before I was the only one taking him out. Slow and steady wins the race i guess. Any more suggestions from you all would be greatly appreciated.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Laurie, great tip!!!!! I keep telling myself to keep treats all around the house, some near the front door, in the family room, the stairways.... They're always in the kitchen so not very practical at times! If I keep treats in a pocket, I get the feeling I'll be mauled by Ricky!  lol

Helen, I think the trainer at your classes might be able to offer sugg'ns cuz he/she will see firsthand how Ollie reacts.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Thank you Marj for your encouragement. I think I really need to patient and understanding with him and refrain from our inherent desire to physically comfort him. I will give it more time. I only want to get him to the point that he doesn't react to dogs - I am not too concerned if he isn't lovey dovey with all dogs. As people, we aren't that way - could you imagine if everytime we walked outside we were all hugey and lovey with everyone!! LOL I guess, it really put things into perspective for me and simply focus on his comfort level and desensitize him to the point that he doesn't feel any stress.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

We keep our treats in the kitchen too, but the trainer said we should ALWAYS have them on hand to treat for ANY good behavior. WE put them in our coat pockets & then the three dogs sniff the coats all day long. My poor son leaves his varsity coat on the kitchen chair, and we grab it to take out the dogs, and he always says that when he gets to school, he has smelly dog treats in his pocket. I guess thats what you get for leaving your coat on the chair!!!!


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## boo2352 (Dec 18, 2006)

MacGyver also was very shy during puppy kindergarten. We decided to try doggie day care. It turned him around completely! He loves playing with the other dogs and can't wait to go. (We take him one or two days a week.) It's really built up his confidence. We did check out the day care first to make sure it was a place we trusted.


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## Karen Fein (Sep 19, 2006)

We've been treating Barney like mad too. We noticed he was getting a bit chunky and we could feel his ribs only with effort. So now we measure out his entire day's kibble and "treat" from that portion. He doesn't notice anything different and we know we're not accidentally over feeding. Plus it's cheaper! Barney will do anything for food.


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## Olliesmom (Sep 29, 2006)

Careful with the treats in the coat!!! So many jackets have new holes in the pockets courtesy of Ollie!!! If I put my jacket down and he can reach it next thing I know - large holes - took me 3 coats to figure that one out!!!

Olliesmom!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Well, I am starting this thread because Just about 3 mins ago Oreo exhibited his FIRST attempt and food guarding. The situation was this. As I was on my laptop at the kitchen table, Oreo was in his basket with a greenie. My daughter as usual was petting him and he let out a low "warning" growl. I simply reacted, and I am not sure if it was too much or effective. I reacted immediately and I grabbed him and pinned him with his tummy to me and my daughter. I didn't know what else to do. PLEASE I NEED ADVICE asap!!


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

This is what we leaned in our puppy class to prevent food guarding . She said to sit on the floor or the couch and to hand feed the dog and to make a game out of it . 
I must admit it works . I did not use kibble but I used treats . I would take a small dish and I would put in a treat and let him take it then I would show him a treat in my hand and make him wait and then say oK and take it then a treat in the bowm just keep repeating it and say good boy . Yes . There were times I would put my hand in the bowl and put in a treat . I would do this 3 times a day just for short period of time .
Now that he has started the guarding it might not be the smartest thing to put your hand in his bowl . if you go to Puppy class ask her as she has an idea of you dogs behavior . 
I do not know about your punishment either but maybe an UH Uh would have worked .. You know your dog best I recommend Ian Dunbars book - it is really helpful on some of these issues or just check his website ..
Good luck .. It can be corrected ..


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Cosmosmom, I thank you for that. I feel like I did overreact. I was the first time and I reacted without even thinking. He has never done that to me and when he did that to my daughter, I flipped  It was utter shock and this was the first time ever. Now I feel so silly. But I find I am really protective of my children and have always been.. I now know that that is my weak point and I have to watch my reactions. I don't want Oreo to be in fear of me and that here in this house he is in fear of his life. That would be heading in the direction of fear aggression, and I don't want to go there. He obviously feels he is my Daughters Alpha at this point and I have to make sure I readjust this thinking asap. I got a havanese for their easy going nature and companionship. But unless, he is exhibiting behaviours that shows he claims me as "his". I really have to sit and watch him now, and then I have to watch what I do to ensure I am not giving him the wrong message.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Olliesmom - how funny that you say that about the coats. This weekend I had to sew my jacket as Logan chewed holes thru the pockets trying to get at the treats in there! They are sneakly little guys!


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## dboudreau (Jan 12, 2007)

Helen, I feel the same way with my kids, and I would, and have done, the same thing you did. I don't think you over reacted at all. Oero has to know who is alpha and that is what you did. Good for you. Oreo will respect you for it. Oreo is 6 months old? He maybe starting his "teenage stage" this is when they test their boundries, and see what they can get away with, just like kids. You need to be firm, he has to know his place in the pack. Once they know their place they are happy.


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## susaneckert (Sep 7, 2006)

Hi finally got some time to catch up .Agression Make sure you tell them NO when they get like that firmly repeat repeat every time. When they stop being aggressive you could always give them a treat or pet pet type thing reward with what ever you normally do. I have had other dogs and had come across this prob. what work for me was telling them no firmly with a small jerk of the leash and tell them its ok.Age has a part in it too .
Whit- you did what you should of done!! Letting him know this is not allowed whats so ever. you can even play with there treats make a game out of it nip it in the butt fast you did not over react at all. Miss all the people here Hoping to get back in the swing of things again real soon


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Thank you Ladies for that vote of confidence. I am going to do like quite a few of you do out there and review all of the dvd's of the Dog Whisperer. As far as Oreo is now acting today, he is being nice and patient with my 2 children. We are keeping him off the couch and our bed for now, until we establish who his Alpha's are. After that experience though, when he was put belly up in front of my daughter, he did not move until we let him, and I made sure he was facing my daughter (He was trying to show his belly to me and not her, eventually he submitted). As for the teenage stage, he is 21 weeks, but he has been exhibiting certain traits like: lifting his leg, trying to hump feet and being stubborn. It could also be that he was neutered last Friday and the hormones are racing through his body right now. I am sure with time all this will pass, but I will keep on him to establish our pack order here in this house. Thank you all for your suggestions and your encouragement, I was honestly feeling like such a horrible unworthy person.


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## Cosmosmom (Jan 12, 2007)

I do not think you overreacted .. You did what any conscientious loving Mommy would do . Have you ever seen a Momma Bear !! 
I have a two and a half year old grandchild who can be quite rambuctious ..Normal of course . Asta was fine he always put the baby first - he would literally go and check on him for me when he was napping .. Asta was older and a different temperment ..
Cosmo I never leave alone with the him . His temperment is just too different and he is too young . Two toddlers so to speak so we supervise him at all times . Interestingly enough since they are both young boys they seem to respect one another and keep their distance .
I had to babysit one day and my husband watched Cosmo as he had not been neutered as yet and we did not want to take any chances ..
I never want a child to suffer the emotional trauma and physical trauma of a dog bite ..
As to keeping them off the bed I do think this makes a difference . Cosmo is not allowed on the bed . Ahnold jumps on because he is an incredible leaper but he is taken off as well . I try not to play favorites ..
Asta was allowed on the bed but I think I gave him too much freedom in the beginning . I am more knowlegable now thanks to Cosmo . He has been a challenge but he is improving every day .
Today he went went right up to Roberto (Yard worker)and did not even bark once . Trust me this is a big thing !!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Thank you Cosmosmom. I am not no Momma bear, but I am sure a lot of us mommies can attest to being very protective of our children. Right now, I admire my almost 3 yr old. She gets Oreo to listen to her and she does exude compassion but also leadership. I guess, for me I have to get over my fears of my children ever getting bitten. I was never bitten as a child but I have seen it and it sticks with me. I have to get it through my head the my children are safe and for this reason we selected this wonderful loving breed. The priviledge of being on my bed is now suspended for Oreo, of course my children as always have free reign  I am monitoring him quite closely now and he must be in my sight at all times now. He mostly is, especially with my daughter, but every now and then my 10 yr old son is with him when I am cooking, cleaning and so on.

Cosmo's mom, I am happy to hear you are making progress with Cosmo and his barking, any step forward is always good news!!


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

I understand that whole slew of emotions when you are faced with an aggressive act from your pup. Been there too..... You didn't do anything wrong, don't worry. Like you, I don't want to panic or "over react" either, but I don't think you did. 

I have also been putting my hand into Ricky's food dish since day one. Don't do it as often now, but I used to at every feeding. I had to make him see that I was not a threat and I was testing to see how he'd react. He never cared. lol

With Sammy here now, I've been doing the same with him. My kids are much older (17, 15 and 12), but I have a 5 yr. old nephew and who knows what other kids might be here in the house. I can't take the chance and dont' want a dog growling about his food dish. I've taken away bones and snacks too. 

Our problem is when we play fetch with Ricky. He is a GREAT fetcher, understands the words 'fetch', 'toy', 'give', 'can't reach', 'too far', 'here' as well as the name of individual toys, like ball, doggie, cube, etc... It's been great playing with him, but we have had to make him do a sit before going for the toy that he's brought back to us, because he will lunge at it while you go to pick it up! With his teeth of course!  

We've shrieked "ouch!", "no!", turned around and refused to play anymore, taken the toy away and made him wait, but he still lunges. If I'm sitting on the floor playing with him and hold the toy up a bit, he will sometimes lunge for it up there - near my face. Not good. WE know how to play and not play with Ricky, but not everyone else does. I am working on this problem with him, but from the posts I'm reading here, I see a couple of things that we can do that would work better.

I'm glad we can come on here to get different views. It helps so much when we aren't sure!!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Marj, I agree with you totally that this is the place to be for advice on our lovable furry "children". I enjoy having a variety of opinions because each and every dog is unique, just like a person is, and for this reason not everything will work for everyone. For this reason, we can incorporate all the many caring suggestions and come up with something that will work for our situation.

Oreo loves to play fetch too and I LOVE incorporating his RLH sessions in there too  I have done very similar as you by putting Oreo in a sit, but I also make sure he respects my space, by ensuring he is out of my circle before the play even begins or continues. When Oreo has gotten too excited in the beginning, I have done the "SHHHSH" noise and given him a nudge with my intention in my head that he respects "my space". If he really was too excited, I have put him in a down until he was respectful and then when he was we would resume play. Don't you worry Marj, he will get it because you will make him understand in your unique way. I am sure many here have many helpful suggestions to offer to you too 

By the way, I just love your signature


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

*"By the way, I just love your signature  "*

I had a feeling you might!  I couldn't resist. lol


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

When Radar gets aggressive or feels the need to growl it's usually when we are playing and I am just as guilty as he is. I roughouse with him but not to the point where he will nip at me even if it's just play biting, if there's such a thing. I will usually blow in his face. He doesn't really like it too much at all and it usually deters him from getting rowdy or unnecessarily aggressive. he might bark a low bark but that's pretty much it. My Wife will have her hands in Radars mouth often which I feel is really not too good but it seems to get him used to hands near his mouth so he's not really eager to bite anyone, he'll usually just "mouth" the hand or fingers but he won't clamp down as if he were to "bite". I feel this is the best thing to get them used to hands near there mouths so they don't get freaked out when a small child gets their hands too close to them. You just have to watch small kids if they are short and the Hav's like to jump at their faces. This might freak some kids out and make them skittish of the Havanese. I usually tell Radar "No Jump" and I will sometimes blow in his face a bit to deter him from jumping. It seems to work pretty good if they don't like it as a negative reinforcement against the behaviour.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Hi everyone, its been a while for me, as I have been very busy working now. I am so happy to see how much our lovely community has grown.
Well, after much debate, I have now resorted to hiring Barkbusters for myself to help Oreo with his seemingly territorial behaviour. When he is out of his home, he is wonderful, no barking, and he is all friendly - or at least that is the way it was at a big Havanese picnic I went to recently. 
He has rules in our home and he is very obedient. When he is out of line, I give him "the Look" and he drops to the ground.... hehehehe, but when we get outside..... Seems like Oreo's the one with the last laugh. He will growl at everyone now, and when he sees other dogs, he barks like a lunatic.... sigh.  Tommorrow, a lady from Barkbusters is coming to see what I am doing wrong and to assess Oreo's behaviour. He is now 9 months, and I want to get this under control once and for all. He is like Napoleon when he gets out there, he wants to take over and conquer all...


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Oh Helen, I'm sorry to hear that! 

I hope the person from Barkbusters helps. I know they are not inexpensive at all. Little Oreo sure won the crowd at that gathering a week ago Saturday as he is such a little charmer. I know it's one thing when we're out, and sometimes quite another when in our own homes.

Please keep us posted o.k.? I'm very interested in hearing what you will learn from your session. Good luck!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Marj, you are right, they are not cheap by all means.  I was using, a slip, as recommended by one trainer, a prong, by another ( which I hated, I felt like such a cruel person). I used, water bottles and guns, and now Oreo doesn't seem bothered by it at all. I have tried rolling him on his back, but he is set on growling and barking at dogs in our neighborhood, as if he is top dog. To be honest, I am also afraid that if he does this to the wrong dog Oreo will get hurt. I know he is tiny, but to be honest, it isn't cute behaviour at all - the wrong dog can come along and then who knows what can happen.... I will keep all of you posted. When it comes to Oreo, I am a lifer, but I really want to help him get past all his fears... Here's to hoping.


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

When it comes to Aggression with Radar he hasn't really expressed any desire to become that way. When he becomes rangy it's usually because he's excited and then he sometimes gets overly active and then sometimes he'll express the desire to get rough a bit. Tonight he got a little brave and was biting My Wifes pants and I had to put him on his back and give him a deep growl...really deep and he stopped. Sometimes it takes a real deep stare and a growl mix to get him to listen. That's what happens when My Wife lets him do things he shouldn't and I have to rectify the matter.

Derek


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Oh Helen,
I'm sorry you're having trouble with Oreo. I've had that exact same problem with Cooper. Getting professional help is a good idea I think if you're out of idea's and not making progress. We finally found a woman that seemed to click with us and Cooper and things are better. Like you, I was also afraid he was going to get himself hurt by growling at big dogs.

We recently took a group class based on this book which I found helpful. I bought the book on Ebay and got it very cheap, just a couple dollars. "Surviving Your Dog's Adolescence- A Positive Training Program" by Carol Lea Benjamin. You might want to pick it up. Good luck, keep us posted and pass on any helpful idea's.

Beverly


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

I'm sorry, Helen.

I hope Barkbusters Helps! I know some of this behavior is very instinctive and it will not be easy, but it WILL be possible.

I know Gucci is the same way, very alpha, very protective of her home, me, her property. It doesn't really bother me, my husband likes that she is a "watchdog". But, like you..I know she will NOT back down to another dog, even one that could hurt her. And, that does scare me  I just wonder how much of this is personality? And if it is even possible to take the "alpha" gene out of a dog? Let me know how it goes!! I'm wishing you and Oreo success! He sounds like a fabulous little guy.

Kara


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Oh Helen, sorry to hear that Oreo is giving you trouble!! YOu had sorta indicated a while back that you thought he was heading in this direction. Hopefully some of the experts can help you guys out!!
Laurie


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Derek wrote: "That's what happens when My Wife lets him do things he shouldn't and I have to rectify the matter."

*** It would be much better if your WIFE was the one to "rectify the matter". Radar needs to know that she's also boss around the home and not only you and him. Do you have books on positive training? I have a few too many lying around here, but it doesn't hurt to have them close at hand to refer to in the first months. Mine are 1 and I still need to look something up from time to time. Hubby has read almost everything I read so that we're on the same page ..... so to speak. 

I agree, Helen. It's scary thinking Oreo could be provoking larger dogs w/o really meaning to. He's such a small and adorable ball of fluff, but he does have the devil in him, eh? lol My thoughts are with you!


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Derek, why not go to training together? You, Wifey and Radar?

My husband goes to every one with us, and it really does help keep us on the same page!

For some reason, husband will listen to the trainer more than ME. lol (And, she is a woman, too!) 

If you can get her on the same page, the training will go much smoother.

Kara


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

I agree Kara, I have everyone in my family follow the same rules with the dogs. It's easier for the dog to understand what is expected, plus I hope if it will make my kids better dog owners in the future. 

My husband was the hardest to train, I told him if he didn't believe me here's the books I've read, your welcome to read them. He decided to just agree with me instead of all that reading.:fish:


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Mine are barkers when we are out, also. I carry Binnaca with me. I really don't have to use it. I just show it to them and they stop. Even if I tell them that I'm getting the spray, they will stop. So that is working for us right now.

My cousin was complaining about her dog barking all the time, so I gave her the Binnaca I had with me. She said in one day, the dog stops barking when she sees her coming with the spray.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Thank you all for your support. Oreo is just plain stubborn, and when he is out, where he feels is HIS territory, he is a big mess. I have already been yelled at by a neighbor, a young lady who was a B%^%$!! He was growling at her, when she was at a distance, and seeing how the water gun was not working anymore, I tugged to the side. Well, she accussed me of abuse and started saying that I am a cruel owner, and that she had been watching, during the times I was with that trainer that advised me to use the prong (I still feel awful about that), and that she heard him yelping. I was so angry I just went right up to her and looking her straight in the eye, and gave her a piece of my mind. I asked her if she would prefer Oreo barking at her and biting her???!! She said, of course she wouldn't. I asked her if right at that moment Oreo was crying? She said he wasn't. So I told her to shut the hell up and focus on more important things. Perhaps the fact that people don't pick up after their dogs, or when people leave their poor dogs in hot cars, or even the dog fighting that is happening right under our noses. Sheesh, I hate second guessing myself when it comes to correcting Oreo, and I am starting to see that many will have differing views, just like with disciplining children.... sigh


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Sorry, that post was supposed to be posted at 10:30, but it didn't post. I had to cut and paste it again.

So to recap what happened during my session. The lady I met was really nice, she was very calm and always eager to give Oreo praise - I know I need to work on that. She broke it down very simply and gave me homework to ensure I am truly the alpha at home. Pretty, much she agrees with me that we don't need to physically force anything, but rather use Passive Assertiveness. Totally new concept for me. She watched my interaction with Oreo and helped me to establish boundaries when people enter the door, or the doorbell rings. She gave me exercises to work on everyday with Oreo. In two weeks, we have our next session, where we will be working on total recall outside. She will also be helping me, by bringing her own GSD - a breed that sets Oreo off completely - to help Oreo see that they all don't mean any harm. I feel a lot calmer and more focussed and Oreo responded. We went out on a walk and his correction, if you want to call it that, is me letting out a firm, low growl to him... boy, does Oreo back off!! :whoo: 

I will definately keep you all posted.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Excellent!

Maybe this different approach is the magic ticket  I sure hope so! Sounds like this new trainer is promising, and how convenient she has a GSD.

Good luck!

Kara


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

Helen, I'm sorry to hear you are having trouble with Oreo. Don't let that neighbor get to you, your a good owner. I'm sure after working with the trainer you will beable to fix Oreo's attitude. Hang in there, You can do it.:cheer2:


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Oh I agree!

I meant to comment on that.

In my neighborhood, I have the OPPOSITE problem. NOBODY trains their dogs and lets them run wild, growl, bite children, crap in everyone's lawn, etc.

I would applaude you for your efforts if you were my neighbor! You have been working diligently with a trainer and trying different approaches, you deserve a medal, IMO.....not an insult! Some dogs may need more stern approaches than others.

I'm glad to hear your growl today caught his attention! bravo!

Kara


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Thank you ladies. I love Oreo and he is wonderful, and like all of you, I want to help bring out the best in him. I was amazed at how simple correction works outside when I have everything under control at home. I will definately keep everyone posted. I can also tell that Oreo really enjoys it when he knows what he does "right"... ooooh he gets so excited and he bounces around so much when he walks... That is very different from his "I am the king of this hill" walk that he was doing. Havanese, you gotta love them, because they have such BIG personalities depite their tiny bodies. I find that this dog is the most challenging of all - he always keeps me guessing.... The little wannabe Alpha.... awwwww.... lol


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

So far, its been over 24 hrs and I am actually amazed at how Oreo is responding to this method of training! We work with him for 20 mins and we make sure we show our "alphaness" and Oreo is more relaxed. Now, when the doorbell rings he really hangs back now!! I know only growl when he is doing something wrong and then we he changes to do what is right I am immediately praising and its working. I also am liking this because I don't feel like I am acting like a complete hothead... lol The moment Oreo sees another dog and his ears start really focussing, I let out my "Bah", which sounds like a low growl, he immediately focusses elsewhere. Our focus for the next 2 weeks is clearly establishing who is the leader at home and then we will take it outdoors with obedience and other dogs.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

That's wonderful news! 

I am beginning to really "get it" with this calm/assertive training, I have noticed a better response. I have an "EP" I say, alot like Cesar, and she really listens to that. Finding the right "sound" to communicate with can really get the ball rolling!

Let us know how he does out and about!

Kara


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## MaddiesMom (Apr 1, 2007)

It sounds like you are having great success with your adorable little boy! He probably thought he was the alpha at times, and was protecting you. Now he knows you're always the alpha, and will protect him. The trainer at Maddie's obedience class said that if some dogs don't know who is alpha in a situation, they will immediately assume that responsibility. That was an eye opener to me!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

great news Helen. I am definetly tuning into this post.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Kara, I am also amazed that a simple sound can mean so much - what a response!!

Jeanne, I was shocked to realize that Oreo does just that, so I have to be on my "A-game" in this area. If I don't act like Alpha, you can bet Oreo will step right on up. I always thought he was the Omega of the litter, but without his mommy, he really decided to take his position here and take charge...  All the dog behaviour is very amazing and the more I learn the more I realize how much I don't know... lol


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

Sounds like things are on the up swing with Oreo, Just keep it up and he will come around. That's great to hear. I know you have tried really hard with him. He's lucky to have you.

I have a sound that I make too, and they know that it means stop what you are doing, or don't even think about what you are getting ready to do. It startles them. Wish it worked on my human kids.

Remember things like: 

Making him sit before he can eat
You should always walk in and out of a door before him
Make him sit to be petted
Sit or Down for a treat

I have been reading The Loved Dog and she says he should see you eat before you feed him. The alpha dog always gets the food first, best sleeping spot, even you on the couch and him on the floor sends the message that you are the alpha.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Helen, that sounds great - Oreo is such a smartie - he is getting it!!!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Paige, thank you for those reminders, I will make sure to always keep them in mind.

Laurie, thanks for your encouragment. I will be keeping everyone posted with his progress. Hugs to you all :grouphug:


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## Brady's mom (Dec 1, 2006)

I am so glad that things are improving for you and Oreo. He is so cute in your picture, I can't stand it! Please keep us all posted.


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## BeverlyA (Oct 29, 2006)

Helen that news is terrific! I'm so proud of you and so happy for you and Oreo! It really is amazing how the smallest signs of being the leader can assure them that they can relax and let you take over.
Please keep us posted, there are lots of us struggling with this every day!
Keep up the great work!

Beverly


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## Beamer (Jan 29, 2007)

Helen... I just started reading this thread now.. gues i missed it the last few days...
Wel, looks like Oreo is doing better now.. thats great! It's funny though.. Oreo was so nice and sweet at my house.. I dont recall him barking... i do remember beamer hiding from him though.. lol

Ryan


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

I will continue to keep everyone posted. Actually this morning Oreo decided he was going to sulk for attention. Although it melted my heart, I really had to keep it together, until I felt he gave up. As soon as he stopped, I called him over and gave him cuddles. He was testing me, to see if he could get attention because HE wanted it... lol I figured he was going to try at some point and sure enough he did. 

We went through the exercises today, which include the doorbell and knocking, going up and down stairs, through doors and recall. I was pretty happy that with one warning Oreo backed off with his growling and barking. He kept away from the door and he did not cross the imaginary barrier I have set. I am sure that one of these days a service guy will come and that will be the REAL test... lol, but for now I am happy with atleast this step forward.

Ryan, yes Oreo, when he is "out of his element (home environment)" is very sweet. But believe you me, from the get-go he did try to be "alpha" from the moment he walked in. That is why Radar and Beamer steered clear of him. If you remember he was "begging" for food and roaming around like he owned the place. During that time I did not notice, but looking back, he sure was. The problem that could have arisen is if we had had another "insecure" wanna be alpha around that is just like Oreo.... I'd hate to imagine what would happen  As I am learning, I am finding that in some dogs the signs can be really subtle and it really takes a good eye, understanding and a lot of thinking to get our dogs to respond in and appropriate fashion.


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

You know Helen, My third boy Nigel would like to be the top dog. If I am petting one of the others he will come and jump on me or them. I knock him off and he has learned to sit and wait his turn. He tried to dominate Preston a few times, and it resulted in a fight. Preston is my laid back one, but wasn't going to put up with Nigel's attitude. I was actually glad to see Preston put him in his place.(I did break it up, didn't want it to sound like I let Preston beat the crap out of Nigel) When I give out treats, he tries to grab it out of my hand. I practice holding it up to his nose and I tell him no or "AAT"(my sound) and when he turns his head away, I say okay and give him the treat. Or you can lay it between his paws, and not let him have it. My lab has a pushy personality so I have had alot of practice from her. But Nigel's manners have gotten alot better, his attitude started the second he walked in my door.. I have my whole family follow the dog rules of sit before petting, and the whole going in and out the door. That way they know that they are below all humans in the house. 

Keep up the Great work, sounds like you and Oreo are doing great.

I'll need to come to you for advice.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Paige, there is no way you would ever need to come to me - I am the one who looks up to you. :hail: I have only Oreo, and he is really making me work. You have a pack and you keep on top of things. :hail:

What I have learned is that we can never let our guard down as alphas, especially if there are the ones who are always willing to step on up and take over. :doh:


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Wow! I am also learning so much from you sharing your story, Helen! Thank you! I think having a private lesson or two here might be in order to help curb Ricky's barking at every noise and movement/person outside that he sees from the deck or window. It's a pain! He won't bark with his citronella collar on, but I don't keep it on him all day as I think that is just too much and borderline cruel. The guy has to be able to 'speak' once in a while, such as in play with Sammy! When our oldest boy brought home 5 male teen friends (17 and 18) the other day, both dogs were insane with their barking at them!!! ARGGHH!! What a pain.

I am VERY happy to hear your first lesson is going so well and that Oreo is responding beautifully! It takes commitment and discipine on our parts to keep at it and make it work. Sometimes, I feel too lazy and that is not good.

Paige, thank you for your input as well. It's invaluable!!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Marj, I know what you mean about feeling lazy - trust me, I do that a lot and put things off. But the concept that Alphas ignore everyone under them unless it suits their purpose, sounded a bit mean to me, but when I began doing it, Oreo eventually gave up demanding attention and began to respond quickly to my commands. I have ordered some delivery for lunch, so I will keep you all posted on how Oreo does. We did a test run and he steered clear of the doors - now we have to wait and see what its like when someone he does NOT know is at the door... 

I thought I had the alpha thing down pat, but I obviously didn't in my case because he was always feeling the need to react and sound alarm. My goal is to get him to layback and relax that all is under control and there is no need to be a vigilante and take the law into his own paws... lol


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## lcy_pt (Aug 17, 2007)

Jeepers this is a good thread. Thanks Helen for letting us know how you're addressing it. This has been one of my 'to-find-out' items on my list. My husband is dog savvy and I am far from it. Seeing that I will be the main caregiver this info has been invaluable. Let us know how Oreo did with the lunch delivery...

Anyone recommend a particular dog training method/author that they've had success with?

Helen - is that a new avatar for Oreo? Luv the suit he has on. Too precious.

Pat


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Pat, yes, Oreo is always ready for any black tie affair .... hehehehe.

Oh yes, I have to update you all on the lunch delivery. It was a success!! Oreo totally hung back and my son was with him and he only let out a growl, to which my son growled back and he simply lay down and stayed quiet. I have to keep at it and practice everyday, as I am noticing the moment we give him "too much" affection ( you would think its NEVER possible to give too much, and it is hard to resist not to either. ), he gets on outside for our walks and he all Napolean-like again... lol :suspicious: We have to go right back on to ignoring him again and that deflates his ego to a normal size again. Such a sneaky guy


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## lcy_pt (Aug 17, 2007)

Wow that is so great about how he listens to your son as well. Sometimes I think it's harder to train the kids, for crying out loud!!! I can imagine how the outside work is more trying. More distractions, more things to sniff, more things to dominate. But still Oreo's improving - great work. This is giving me confidence like you wouldn't believe. :thumb: 

Pat


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

whitBmom said:


> Oh yes, I have to update you all on the lunch delivery. It was a success!! Oreo totally hung back and my son was with him and he only let out a growl, to which my son growled back and he simply lay down and stayed quiet. I have to keep at it and practice everyday, as I am noticing the moment we give him "too much" affection ( you would think its NEVER possible to give too much, and it is hard to resist not to either. ), he gets on outside for our walks and he all Napolean-like again... lol :suspicious: We have to go right back on to ignoring him again and that deflates his ego to a normal size again. Such a sneaky guy


Oooooooo , I'm impressed, Helen! Good going!

Just to play devil's advocate here because it's something I wonder about... I realize that it's best not to give "too much" affection when you have a tough wannabe little guy with an ego issue, but I would find it terribly sad and very difficult not to be able to give as many hugs, rubs and attention as I'd want to! After all, that's why I got a dog, and esp. the Havanese. Know what I mean?

I know not all dogs need this type of training, but Ricky can be quite bossy and his barking is either triggered by fear, boredom or by wanting to be boss. He isn't at all like this in public and I am definitely the alpha around here, but there's still something I need to do/work on to make things really o.k. He just barks too dang much and can be pushy when he wants something.

I've seen experts say to avoid petting the dog, addressing/speaking to the dog for quite an extended time to finally get the dog to realize that his world revolves around you, not the other way around so your trainer's advice makes sense. I am just really impressed that you can do it because I dont' think I can! lol But then......... I am feeling encouraged with your results and am thinking of giving it a shot. I dont' feel quite confident enough to do what you do yet, but I'm going to read up some more and look into it.

So there. Dont' I sound nice and confused?! :brick: LOL

I am VERY interested in "my" cutiepie Oreo's progress, so please dont' be shy about telling us how things are going, o.k.? Thanks Helen!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Marj, believe me it was heartbreaking for me by the 4th day, as Oreo was starting to poke and prod and whine. So, what I would do is as soon as he gave up, I would call him immediately, make a big fuss, cuddle and hold him like a baby. What amazed me was that he cuddled so much and was so much more affectionate. Whereas, before this training, he wouldn't be so cuddly since he was CONSTANTLY getting hugs and cuddles - I was always making a big fuss of him. 

Today was a bit of a challenge since my parents came over to visit, but I managed to keep him in a down and I managed to explain to my parents to ignore him until he settled down. He eventually did and then my parents called him over for cuddles and hugs, and Oreo was super excited jumping all over the place. So, although we are working on asserting ourselves we do have to work on him jumping up when he is called over by guests to give him affection.

The only thing he did today that was out of the norm, was Oreo decided to chew one of my daughters "My Little Pony's" head off.  So I let out a firm no and growl and he backed away, but I am thinking because he is trying to get attention he resorted to destructive behaviour. So, I will be communicating with my trainer this week to give her an update.

I am sure there will be ups and downs but the great thing is his "wanna-be" alpha behaviour outside has subsided. He will gruffle the odd time, and we growl at him. He usually responds by settling and continuing on.

I will continue to keep everyone updated. Hugs to you Marj, and always do what feel 'right' to you. :grouphug:


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## radar_jones (May 6, 2007)

We sometimes have this problem with Radar and My Wife. When we get home from being out My Wife picks up Radar and gives him all sorts of puppy kisses and all the attention in the world. I don't do that and it makes My Wife mad. She will tell me to give Radar attention. I won't do it. I tell her that we are not suppose to make a big issue of it when we get leave and get home that way Radar won't freak out when we leave and get home and this will reduce the Separation Anxiety. Sometimes she's like an open door. It goes in and then keeps going. She doesn't listen and does it anyway so I gave up trying to tell her that anymore. I still restrict the attention so Radar freaks out with my wife vbut not with me. He's been able to separate the two which is good. 

Derek


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## Greg (Oct 25, 2006)

Sounds like he's going thru his 2nd fear stage.



whitBmom said:


> Hello Everyone, I am in DIRE need of advise. Little Oreo for this past week seems to have developed the need to Growl and Bark LOUDLY at other dogs. He loves people but dogs are another matter. He is still very shy at the puppy class and will avoid the other dogs when its playtime - he keeps his distance. I am trying to stay as calm as possible and I am now monitoring my thoughts when I walk him and during that class. Now, in his puppy class he as not displayed this agression but he tries to hide behind my legs. What do I do? I am not petting him during these episodes, but do I pull him out from behind me to meet the other dogs in puppy class or leave him alone? When walking, do I just keep moving and ignore his behaviour? Help?!


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Greg, in your opinion, what is the best way to handle a 2nd fear period? you don't read much about a 2nd one. I know Jasper (who sounds very similar in temperment to Oreo) never let out a peep until he was 9 months old. he is now 17 months and we have tried to work through it by being Alpha and he may be getting a bit better but he still barks and growls at the door and at cars and sometimes people ( but that has gotten much better.) Would love to hear your thoughts.


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## Greg (Oct 25, 2006)

Missy said:


> Greg, in your opinion, what is the best way to handle a 2nd fear period? you don't read much about a 2nd one. I know Jasper (who sounds very similar in temperment to Oreo) never let out a peep until he was 9 months old. he is now 17 months and we have tried to work through it by being Alpha and he may be getting a bit better but he still barks and growls at the door and at cars and sometimes people ( but that has gotten much better.) Would love to hear your thoughts.


As Jan will tell you, I'm not the Dog Whisperer. <grin> This helped me get our dogs thru the 2nd fear stage:

Second Fear Imprint Period (6 - 14 Months) is similar to the one that occurred during the socialization period, but, it is much less defined. It occurs as dogs enter adolescence and seems more common in males. It is often referred to as adolescent shyness. Your dog may suddenly become reluctant to approach something new or suddenly become afraid of something familiar. This behavior can be very frustrating to the owner and difficult to understand because its onset is so sudden and, seemingly, unprovoked. If you notice this behavior, it is important to avoid the two extremes in response: Don't force him to do or approach something frightening to him and don't coddle or baby him. To get through situations that make your dog fearful, be patient, kind, and understanding. Desensitize him to the object or situation by gradually introducing him to it and using food rewards and praise to entice him to confront the fearful object or situation. Do not coddle or reassure him in any way that will encourage his fearful behavior. Do not correct him either. Simply make light of it and encourage him give him food rewards as he begins to deal with his fear better. Make sure you lavishly praise his attempts! This phase will pass.


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

thanks Greg. That is what we have kind of been doing instinctually. hope he continues to get better.


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Thanks Greg for your insights. Oreo is definately in that second fear stage. Oreo at times will get spooked by bushes and trees or if we venture out in a totally different area. What we have observed is if he walks in between myself and my husband or my son, then he is so much better and has less of a tendency to bark and growl at other dogs. We did go on a nice long walk this weekend by a lake very close to us. There are always many people, bikes, children and dogs and when we were moving, Oreo did extremely well. We made sure there was always one of us in between him and other dogs and we let him get a 2 second sniff and we moved on . Now, Oreo seems to handle the walks well, but when we stopped off for a picnic, he figured we were on BREAK and he decided to let out his warning barks to all around. I growled and had to make him lay down on his side. He didn't struggle and submit, but that was the only way to get him to stop barking - by him not 'seeing' anyone. That is something I will be addressing with my trainer. I will keep you all posted.


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Helen, how is Oreo making out with his training??\


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

Yes, I am curious too Helen. How are you doing? Are finding the BB methods easy for you to stick to?


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Hello ladies! I am all over the place these days.. lol Oreo is doing much better on walks, the odd time he will let out the "gruffle", but I let him know with my growl that that is my job. I am noticing he is more relaxed when he walk in between me and hubby or my son. I guess he feel safer. The trickiest part is when we are stationary. He has to warn everyone, so I have to make him lie down on his side when he gets too much and he has to stay there until he settles. He is still fearful of larger dogs, but then again, it is not like he has many large breed friends, so I will have to work on that. 

The training I like, as it is pretty simple and it gets Oreo to really focus on me and what I want... hehehe... He still is my little shadow, but now he never gets ahead of me. If he gets to a door way, he waits until I go through.  I have also found that he is really eating very well now too - I guess all that daily training. As for the door bell, Oreo completely hangs back and does not bark anymore, as he now knows it is MY job to check it out and protect everyone. Now, that I am getting the Alpha part down in the home, as well as working on our outdoor challenges, I do have to work on how my family acts around him. It turns out that he seems to think he is next in line, when I am at work or away... 

This week I have the next appointment at a local park, and the trainer is bringing her 9mth GSD ( he's 80lbs!!), so we can let Oreo make friends... We will see how that goes :croc: :suspicious:


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## Paige (Sep 12, 2006)

That is wonderful to hear. Hard work pays off and you should be very proud of yourself and Oreo. :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:


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## Missy (Nov 6, 2006)

great news Helen. This system really seems to be working for you both.


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## Thumper (Feb 18, 2007)

Helen,

That's great news  I knew he would come around soon with all your hard work and persistance.

I also have taught Gucci to walk in or out only after I do, it is funny when she occasionally gets excited and leaps ahead of me, She knows that I will bring her back to do it the "right way", so she will just come back and sit next to my feet until I go! ound: Yay!

I still have more progress to make on the walks, but they are getting better. She is only really pulling on the first block of the walk, but will usually settle into a side pace...I am happy to read about your progress! It will make life much easier in the long run.

Kara


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## Laurief (Nov 7, 2006)

Way to go Oreo and Helen!!!:whoo: So glad to hear things are working for you!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Thank you for all your support, it means alot. I feel much better that this approach is gentle and give Oreo a clear sense of what he does right and wrong. He is so happy when he gets it right - well that's because mama's happy with him... lol I will continue to keep you all posted.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Awww, I miss that older avatar of Oreo, with his paws in the air. He's so cute, though, it doesn't matter what picture you post of him! 

I'm so impressed, Helen! Wow. Oreo lets you walk through a doorway before he does? I mean, when we bring the dogs in or out for walks, I remind everyone here that they are to walk through the doors before the dogs and we do that, but all doorways in the house? Very nice. Great job, Helen! Now to train the rest of the family, eh? lol

Do you pay this trainer by the hour, by the job or by how much she is training you? I'm curious as to how it works. Do you feel it's worth the expense and just how expensive can this get? I'd like to consider private instruction so the trainer can see how Ricky is in the home, how I am, etc... 

I think that meeting at the park with the GSD is going to be awesome! Your story reminds me of quite a few dog training shows I've seen on t.v. I'm glad it's working so well!


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## whitBmom (Nov 27, 2006)

Hey Marj,

How barkbusters works is you pay upfront for a lifetime membership. So this runs for the entire life of your dog. It was a bit pricey, but I was not getting anywhere with Oreo and it was one of my last ditch efforts to get across to him. It is working for me, and it does take some effort in the beginning, but over time I am finding that it is becoming second nature to me. I don't agree too much with too much physical correction, and I find that, so far, the methods we have used so far, have been very gentle and to the point. Oreo is getting it and that is what makes me happy. As I help him get over his fears of larger dogs, I will be moving on to his second level obedience - and who knows, maybe even agility because he loves it!!  Good luck to you Marj, and feel free to email me any time if you have questions. Hugs to you.


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Greg - I think that is the problem with Kodi.
When he was between 8-10 mos old, he got along fine with other dogs. It was summer time and we were at the dog park almost every day. We never had any kind of aggression problems. Then winter came, and we didn't go out as much and during that time, he must have been going through the 2nd fear stage. 

He is now fearful of other dogs, not all, but most. We don't go to the dog park, because he is not comfortable there anymore. I don't know if I am doing the right thing. We went to a barbecue last week and he got along fine with my cousin's little Mal-Chi. But when Rocky came over, a Boston Terrier, Kodi went berserk. Kodi has never liked Rocky, since the first time they were introduced.

I think I might take him back to obedience classes to see if that helps. Or, I might have to find a trainer to come to the house.


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## marjrc (Jan 13, 2007)

Helen, thank you. I will definitely consider what will be the best course of action for us. I suppose if I wasn't so tired, I might be able to figure something out, but ..... 

Michele, I think taking some kind of class with Kodi is a great idea! You just want to be sure there aren't too many huge dogs in it and that the approach is slow and gentle. It might not be a good idea to avoid the situations Kodi isn't comfortable in, but neither would I recommend throwing him in there and having him fend for himself. Maybe you could walk close to where the dog park is, so that he sees it nearby, hears the dogs, etc.... I might try that a few times, getting a little closer each time, but never to the point where Kodi would freak. 

They say slow conditioning works best in eliminating fears in both people and animals and I've seen it with mine. Sammy was very afraid of people coming into the home when we first got him. Now, he's a little nervous and shy, but he barks like a Doberman and won't hesitate to let people know that HE'S the boss around here, not them! lol


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## irnfit (Nov 21, 2006)

Hi, Marj
Thanks for the input. Kodi has been through obedience classes and passed. Also, he doesn't mind big dogs, in fact, he prefers them over small dogs. We were in Cape Cod last week, and he did really well with other dogs. Sometimes he will bark, but that is just his way of saying hello. He does prefer some dogs over others, don't know why. He takes to Maltese, Silky Terriers and other Havs, but is not too fond of Boston Terriers. 

I was even thinking, instead of classes again, maybe day care once a week so he will be around more dogs. I'm weighing my options at this point.


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