# Second dog- maybe a havanese?



## Prue (Dec 5, 2015)

Hi!


So as I mentioned in my introduction I am looking for my second dog. This will not happen so soon so I have a lot of time to get to know all the breeds I am interested in. The breeds on my list are: havanese, coton de tulear, sheltie, poodle and papillon.
Has any of you have the experience with this breeds(exercise need, grooming need). You can compare with the havanese..

I have a few questions:

How many times in a week do you have to groom a havanese? How frequently do they have to be bathed? If you shave them to a short clip and than you decide to let long again does the quality of the coat change or is it the same?

How much exercise do they need? I am looking for a breed that doesn't need a lot of exercise but is lively and likes to run on walks and is calm at home. Can havan. be happy with a daily 1-1,5h walk (all off leash) but are able to go longer?

On rainy days or when I don't feel well I don't to go out and we are both happy to snuggle on the couch. This should be ok for hav.too? 

I am planning to do maybe some rally obedience or just normal obedience how suitable are havanese for this? I would like to have a dog that likes to please and is easy to train..?

Are they a watchdog, I mean do they let you know someone is at the door?

I have read a lot about hausetraing problems and some say they can never be fully hausetrained which is a big concern for me. So how bad is it really?

Thanks,
Prue


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Prue said:


> Hi!
> 
> So as I mentioned in my introduction I am looking for my second dog. This will not happen so soon so I have a lot of time to get to know all the breeds I am interested in. The breeds on my list are: havanese, coton de tulear, sheltie, poodle and papillon.
> Has any of you have the experience with this breeds(exercise need, grooming need). You can compare with the havanese..
> ...


Hi! I think I responded to you in another thread, comparing most of these breeds, though I don't think you had Papillons on the other list. Papillons are the smallest and most fragile of the breeds you've mentioned. Some are very good workers, while others (a lot of them) are very high strung.

Your exercise schedule should be fine for a Havanese. And yes, they are certainly capable of settling on a day when they can't get out for a walk.... Certainly better than a Sheltie or Poodle.

I groom mine daily, but they are both in full coats. I could get by with every 2-3 days, but I like them to look nice. Same with bathing. I like them fresh and fluffy and smelling good... And one is mostly white, so I bathe them weekly. Lots of people bathe their Havs less often. And yes, if you cut them down it is always possible to grow their coat out again.

Havs will certainly "alarm bark" if people come in the yard. But they can also quite easily be taught to stop when you tell them to.

They make excellent dogs for various sports if you choose the individual wisely (and that should be done no matter what the breed if you are looking for a performance puppy). Just look at all of Kodi's titles! 

Potty training struggles are mainly caused by two things. Buying a dog from a poor breeder, who doesn't give the puppies a good early start with potty training, OR, the new owner not being consistent enough supervising the puppy and confining the puppy when they can't give EYES ON supervision. But this is true across the board with small breed puppies. The only Havanese I know of who could NEVER be house trained were puppy mill dogs... And even most of THEM can learn with enough consistency and patience.


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## Prue (Dec 5, 2015)

Hi!

Yes you did and thank you for the answers in al my threads! My mom told me to put the Papillon on a list so I did, but as you said they seem to fragile to me.
Ok for the grooming. How much time does it take you for the whole process(bathing, combing) and how much for normal daily grooming?
I was just in the morning looking at videos of your Kodi from the rally area. He is such a lovely boy with nice markings and I was very impressed by his obedience!:surprise:

It is good to know they can be house trained. That gives me hope I would be able to do it.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Prue said:


> Hi!
> 
> Yes you did and thank you for the answers in al my threads! My mom told me to put the Papillon on a list so I did, but as you said they seem to fragile to me.
> Ok for the grooming. How much time does it take you for the whole process(bathing, combing) and how much for normal daily grooming?
> ...


Daily geooming for both dogs together is less than half an hour. If I am lazy for a day, and only put their top knots up, and don't comb them out, it's 10 minutes. Some Havanese have MUCH thicker undercoats than mine do, though, and those are a lot more work. So if that's important to you, (it was to me!) look for lines with the silkier coats. OTOH, since you're in Europe, things are a bit different. I have a friend with two European Havanese. The texture of their coats are both MUCH different from most American Havanese. Their coats are not as soft and fine, but they also seem to mat less. Talk to any potential breeder about what to expect with his or or lines.

For "Bath day" I can get both of mine washed and dry in about an hour and a half. But I have two strong dryers... One stand dryer and one "force" dryer. Many people with just one Havanese use a human hair dryer. I did that for quite some time, and it definitely works, but it takes longer. It used to take me about 1 1/2 hours just to do Kodi. Of course, if you keep your Hav in a short clip, drying takes much less time. In fact, many people who keep their Havs in puppy cuts let them air dry.

Thank you for your kind words about Kodi. He is the sweetest dog ever, and is also a VERY good worker. I hope my puppy will be as good. She's a very smart girl, so I have my fingers crossed!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

I have had a Sheltie in the past, and they are a beautiful dog, too. I can't remember how much time I spent grooming him, but though he was always well groomed (by me,) I don't remember it taking as much time as my Tucker does. I bath Tucker every two weeks and it takes about 1.5 hours because of drying him with a regular, human hair dryer. That does include trimming the hair from the pads of his feet and trimming nails.

I comb him out every other day, for about 10 minutes each time. He is really quite easy care, if you like hairy dogs--which I do! 

He took a lot of attention on house training, never letting him loose in the house if I wasn't actively watching him, until he was nearly a year. But, then, I am extremely picky and did not want even ONE accident in the house. It is just an issue for me. So, by the time he was a year old he was totally trustworthy in the house. His breeder did not get him started on housebreaking, just put newspapers under the pen. If I ever get another dog, it will be from someone that actively starts them in their home.

I considered and looked at several Papillons myself, but found they were too delicate and yappy for me. I don't care for barking and haven't allowed Tucker to develop that love of barking. He will bark (sounds like a much bigger dog!) when someone opens the screen door to leave a package, but that has happened only a handful of times in his life. (He is 8.)

Most importantly, I'd check into the breeder, their standards, and their practices for raising pups and how involved they will be with you.

Oh, I should mention that I'd never take Tucker for walks off leash--he loves children, adults, and other animals too much, and I'd never be able to trust him wholly to not take off for a visit. Havanese DO love children. At least, they are reputed to do so, and Tucker certainly does.

Good luck, with whatever breed you choose.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

OTOH, Havanese Can be taught to be reliable off leash. But you need to develop a solid, reliable recall. It also helps if they can be off leash with an older, reliably trained dog when they start their off leash adventures. Mine walk (run! ) off leash regularly, but I am sensible about it. They are NEVER off leash anywhere near a road, and I can rely on them to come back to me when I call if there are other dogs, hikers, bicyclers, horses, etc. Kodi knows to sit at my feet until these have gone past. i don't trust Pixel QUITE that far yet, so I pick her up until the distraction passes. I don't trust OTHER unleashed dogs, so if there are unleashed dogs coming toward us (unless the owner CLEARLY has THEM under good control also) I scoop up both of mine... One under each arm. But 8'd do that even if they were on leash.


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## Karen Collins (Mar 21, 2013)

When looking for a breed of dog that is right for you and your lifestyle, there are many things to consider and it looks like you are asking all the right questions. One of the most important traits to consider IMO is energy. It's very important to match the energy level of owner and dog. For example, I am a very low energy, laid-back person. I am 55, unemployed, have 3 married children with 3 grandchildren and an auto immune disease. The energy of a terrier or working dog is out of the question for me. Of course, with good positive training you can overcome breed specific issues, but with my health and low energy, I am only going to do minimal training. I need an easy breed of dog and the Havanese is easy overall, with the exception of grooming. If you want to keep it in coat, the maintenance is extremely high.

They are slower than a big dog to be reliable with house training until after a year. This is a maturity issue as they are slow maturing dogs. If you have a Havanese under a year that is accident free, its because you are doing a great job not allowing it. In others words, you are the one who is house-trained.


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## Prue (Dec 5, 2015)

Ok I have a clearer idea about the grooming needs of the havanese and how much time it would take me. I didn't know there were differences in the american vs european havanese.
I like hairy dogs to and I love going with the fingers through the hair of a long haired dog, In fact I don't know how to pet a short haired dog and not to mention that long haired dogs have less doggy odour or none(my spitz and havanese too). My dog smells nice even when he is wet. As for brushing I am used to do the line brushing of my dog and It takes me 15 minutes(I also clip the hair on the butt so no poop gets stuck in and I clip the hair on the front and back legs and the belly area). Now in the summer and winter he gets shorter clips but only to the belly area and on his legs so he gets less dirty. I like doing this and I hope If I get a havanese I will be able to make something similar. I like the havanese faces and that you can make a top knot.


The breeder of my dog didn't start the housebreaking proces either so he had no problem peeing on his bed and sleeping on a wet bed. He also began to eat his poop and so when he pooped in his crate he also eat it like a meal  . I was taking him outside every hour or two for months. I also had a problem with taking him outside and after we went inside I just left for 5 min and when I come back he peed again, always when he was alone for minutes. I was at home all the time and I thought I will be able to teach him fairly quickly but he just didn't get it till 7 months. But after that he never had an accident only a few times when he had and urinary infection. Overall we had a lot of accidents and the fact that it rained from day one when I brought him from the breeder didn't help either(he hates rain) So my second dog must be a spring puppy because housebreaking a dog in winter is much harder. 

It is possible that the already housebroken dog statrs peeing/marking on the puppy accidents in the house?:frown2: Lexi is neutered but he always marks on top of others dogs pee immediately after they do it.

My Lexi was very interested in other people when he was a puppy he would go to them and walk with them. He is still interested and wants to sniff others but he doesn't want to be petted by them, he always moves away. He may wiggle his tail but thats all.

I had a different problem with him, from the first day I got him he chased our cat, he was a pro.chaser (he learned it from his mum I guess) and then he began chasing cars, runners, bikers and so on. So I made a long line(40 ft) and began teaching him come, stay, go slowly and so on, he would drag the line and he had no sense that he was on a leash. When he was getting better I began to use a shorter line. I think this is the best way to teach a dog, because he thinks he is free and you can always step on the line and prevent something. They say that pomeranians are hard to train, because they are stubborn, well it is true it takes a lot of time, determination and positive reinforcements but It can be done. And since havanese are known to be a more people pleasing breed It shouldn't be more difficult to teach them to be off leash(so I hope ) Lexi is my first dog and I can say he is very obedient and has a very good recall so I hope the puppy would learn from him. I walk him always in the woods, far from the roads


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## Laurmann2000 (Sep 12, 2015)

Prue, I don't have a Havanese yet so I can't give any advice but I wanted to say that your dog in your profile picture is gorgeous. I assume that's Lexi?


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Prue said:


> Ok I have a clearer idea about the grooming needs of the havanese and how much time it would take me. I didn't know there were differences in the american vs european havanese.
> I like hairy dogs to and I love going with the fingers through the hair of a long haired dog, In fact I don't know how to pet a short haired dog and not to mention that long haired dogs have less doggy odour or none(my spitz and havanese too). My dog smells nice even when he is wet. As for brushing I am used to do the line brushing of my dog and It takes me 15 minutes(I also clip the hair on the butt so no poop gets stuck in and I clip the hair on the front and back legs and the belly area). Now in the summer and winter he gets shorter clips but only to the belly area and on his legs so he gets less dirty. I like doing this and I hope If I get a havanese I will be able to make something similar. I like the havanese faces and that you can make a top knot.
> 
> The breeder of my dog didn't start the housebreaking proces either so he had no problem peeing on his bed and sleeping on a wet bed. He also began to eat his poop and so when he pooped in his crate he also eat it like a meal  . I was taking him outside every hour or two for months. I also had a problem with taking him outside and after we went inside I just left for 5 min and when I come back he peed again, always when he was alone for minutes. I was at home all the time and I thought I will be able to teach him fairly quickly but he just didn't get it till 7 months. But after that he never had an accident only a few times when he had and urinary infection. Overall we had a lot of accidents and the fact that it rained from day one when I brought him from the breeder didn't help either(he hates rain) So my second dog must be a spring puppy because housebreaking a dog in winter is much harder.
> ...


It certainly sounds like you have all the skills and experience necessary to deal with a Havanese coat! Please keep in mind that even among American Havanese, their coat DO vary quite a bit from dog to dog. I suspect the same is true of European Havs.

It sounds like your house training experience with Lexi gave you all the experience you need to deal with even the most difficult Havanese puppy!

I saw no signs of Kodi, my older boy, marking or peeing inappropriately after we got Pixel, though she had very few accidents. We use littler boxes (both my dogs were trained to use them by their breeder) so Pixel does have an appropriate indoor potty spot. She knows where they are, and uses them as needed. She would prefer to go outside, I think, but on a really rainy day, or if we are away from home longer than she is comfortable, she knows that is another option. I DID notice that Kodi started using the little boxes more frequently when he saw her using them. But that is actually fine with me... We live in an area with harsh, very snowy winters, and it is often more convenient for US to have them use the littler boxes!

Kodi ALWAYS prefers going outside if he has the option, and I think that has been a good example for Pixel. When he goes out, she goes out, and usually potties when he does.

And yes, your method of teaching a reliable recall is a good one. When Kodi was first allowed "off leash" in the woods, he dragged a long line too. Now,with Pixel, I am at a different level in my training skills, and the interesting thing is that she has been trained for all skills almost entirely off leash. The only time she is ON leash, really, is when she is on the street or around cars. She is very reliable about sticking to me.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Karen, you live in a very different area than I do--I'm in a city, and when we walk it is on sidewalks next to busy streets and in neighborhoods where sometimes there are loose dogs. I wouldn't ever risk Tucker being off leash there. Now, (I have to clarify this so you don't feel badly for Tucker, :wink: ) in the mountains, where we have miles of dirt and sagebrush, Tucker is off leash just fine. But, there is lots of open ground there, with no danger of cars. (Just stickers! Ugh!)


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## MarinaGirl (Mar 25, 2012)

Tucker is a cute mountain dog!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Sheri said:


> Karen, you live in a very different area than I do--I'm in a city, and when we walk it is on sidewalks next to busy streets and in neighborhoods where sometimes there are loose dogs. I wouldn't ever risk Tucker being off leash there. Now, (I have to clarify this so you don't feel badly for Tucker, :wink: ) in the mountains, where we have miles of dirt and sagebrush, Tucker is off leash just fine. But, there is lots of open ground there, with no danger of cars. (Just stickers! Ugh!)


I THOUGHT I had seen photos of Tucker off leash!  I agree completely, I don't think ANY dog should EVER be off leash if there is even a CHANCE of cars in the area. ...And I DEFINITELY know Tucker is cared for like the prince he is!


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## Prue (Dec 5, 2015)

Laurmann2000 said:


> Prue, I don't have a Havanese yet so I can't give any advice but I wanted to say that your dog in your profile picture is gorgeous. I assume that's Lexi?


Yes this is Lexi and thank you for the compliment


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## Prue (Dec 5, 2015)

krandall said:


> It sounds like your house training experience with Lexi gave you all the experience you need to deal with even the most difficult Havanese puppy!
> 
> I saw no signs of Kodi, my older boy, marking or peeing inappropriately after we got Pixel, though she had very few accidents. We use littler boxes (both my dogs were trained to use them by their breeder) so Pixel does have an appropriate indoor potty spot. She knows where they are, and uses them as needed. She would prefer to go outside, I think, but on a really rainy day, or if we are away from home longer than she is comfortable, she knows that is another option. I DID notice that Kodi started using the little boxes more frequently when he saw her using them. But that is actually fine with me... We live in an area with harsh, very snowy winters, and it is often more convenient for US to have them use the littler boxes!
> 
> ...


I hope you are right about this. I must confess the house training proces is the thing that frightens me the most. There were days when I just gave up, hopefully the next morning I woke up optimistic and with a better plan. 
And how frequent do you get Kodi and Pixel out to pee? How long can they hold it? Lexi is never home alone for more that 4-5h. When we are home he goes out even sooner because we are frequently going out to check the horses and other stuff and he comes along. So he is not used to hold it for long but I think he could do it, because at night he is ok for 9h.

So as a breed they have a naturally tendency to stay close to the owner while off leash?

Sheri your Tucker is a very handsome boy 

As for my breed list, the breeds that I have ruled out are the papillon and sheltie. I think there would be too hyper and too loud for us.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Prue said:


> I hope you are right about this. I must confess the house training proces is the thing that frightens me the most. There were days when I just gave up, hopefully the next morning I woke up optimistic and with a better plan.
> And how frequent do you get Kodi and Pixel out to pee? How long can they hold it? Lexi is never home alone for more that 4-5h. When we are home he goes out even sooner because we are frequently going out to check the horses and other stuff and he comes along. So he is not used to hold it for long but I think he could do it, because at night he is ok for 9h.
> 
> So as a breed they have a naturally tendency to stay close to the owner while off leash?
> ...


If I had to guess, I'd say they are out approximately every 3 hours or so when we are home and awake. But Kodi does FINE for up to 5 hours. Pixel will use her litter box if she has to before we get home. At night, they both go out the last time between 8-9PM, and get up (and go straight out) between 7-8 in the morning. They have no problem with that!


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## Pucks104 (Aug 16, 2012)

Leo, almost 3 yrs, can go 6 hours during the day though typically he gets out every 3 hours or so and at night goes from 9:00 pm to 5:30-6:30 am. Baby Rex has the same night schedule as Leo. He pees and poops much more often during the day. The first couple of hours he is up, he pees probably 4 times, poops 2-3 times. Then he'll not poop again until 1:00-3:00 pm and again maybe 6:00 sometimes again at bedtime, but not always. He will go 2-3 hours between pees after the several pees early in the am. He pees after naps, hard play sessions, greeting visitors and eating.


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

Tucker has no trouble holding it for 5-6 hours. At night, he goes out the last time at about 9pm and goes out first thing in the morning at about 7 am, so... about 10 hours.

As far as Tucker goes, off leash, he likes to sniff and mark and be a great, big, tough, mountain dog. ound: If we were in a populated place he'd run to any child, adult, cat, dog, squirrel... (got the idea?) that he could greet and play with. Havs tend to be very social and love anything that breaths.


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## Prue (Dec 5, 2015)

Hi, I know this thread is old but I think I have to tell for which breed I decided in the end.. A 1,5 year ago I started with agility training with my spitz and I just love this sport, but he not so much.. :frown2: This summer we went to our first competition :smile2: My health got better and so I decided to go for more bigger and hyper breeds on my list. I was deciding for months between a miniature poodle and sheltie. I found a great Sheltie breeder a few hour of drive from me, the parent of the puppies have a very stable temperament(lots on scared and neurotic shelties out there:|) and she does a great job in socializing them. So I have for two months a female Sheltie in my favorite colour(bi black), she will be soon 4,5months old and I love her soo much, she is a darling :x Oh and she loves to fetch :wink2:
Now we started with puppy school and after that we will go to agility. I think she is going to be a bomb in agility. :grin2:
Even if I don't have a havanese I like to read this forum and maybe I can receive or give some help :smile2:


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## Maistjarna (Oct 15, 2016)

I demand pics!


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## Laurmann2000 (Sep 12, 2015)

Congratulations. That's wonderful thanks for letting us know and please post a picture of you can.


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## ShamaMama (Jul 27, 2015)

Yes, thank you so much for the update! It's fun to find out what happens after a person posts a new thread/question. I personally would love to see some agility videos. The shelties I've seen at agility have been amazing!


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## Sheri (Oct 11, 2008)

How fun to hear an update from you, and to learn of your decision! And, yes, we need pictures!


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