# Puppy Class without Bordetella?



## David1969 (Nov 12, 2015)

So, Oliver is 14 weeks and his first official puppy class starts tomorrow morning. The problem is, he hasn't had the Bordetella vaccine yet (our vet said to wait 3 weeks after his Lyme and DHPP vaccines). I know about the early socialization window closing in on us, but I don't think it's safe for him to go to class tomorrow, do you? He will receive the Bordetella vaccine on Monday, and then he'll be able to attend the next week's class. He will be 15 weeks at that point. 

Thanks for your input and opinion!
~Meri


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

David1969 said:


> So, Oliver is 14 weeks and his first official puppy class starts tomorrow morning. The problem is, he hasn't had the Bordetella vaccine yet (our vet said to wait 3 weeks after his Lyme and DHPP vaccines). I know about the early socialization window closing in on us, but I don't think it's safe for him to go to class tomorrow, do you? He will receive the Bordetella vaccine on Monday, and then he'll be able to attend the next week's class. He will be 15 weeks at that point.
> 
> Thanks for your input and opinion!
> ~Meri


I never EVER give Bordetella vaccine to my dogs, and neither do most of the knowledgeable dog people I know. Bordetella vaccine is only partially protective against a very few of the MANY different germs that can cause "kennel cough". Kennel cough in dogs is like a cold in people. Unless the dog has underlying health problems, they get over it. Add to that the fact that the nasal vaccine causes dogs to actually SHED virus. Honestly, I don't want my dogs near a dog who has been recently vaccinated with the nasal vaccine.

IMO, Bordetella vaccine is to protect doggy day cares, groomers, etc. from people complaining that their dog picked up kennel cough at their facility. They can then say, "Couldn't be! All our dogs are vaccinated!' Well, they probably DID pick it up there, but a strain that the vaccine doesn't protect against.

Oh, and Bordetella vaccine is only even PARTIALLY protective for 6-9 months, yet all these places ask for an annual vaccination. It's pure stupidity.

As far as Puppy K is concerned, puppies need to be in a safe, well-run Puppy K AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE. At 15 weeks, your puppy is already on the older end for starting Puppy K. Many puppies start between 8-9 weeks.

We now know that early, gentle, well-run socialization is absolutely critical to raising a puppy. Havanese puppies, especially when they are little, are SO sweet and out-going that it's easy to fall into the mind-set that "My puppy will be fine without that." When the puppy later becomes reactive to other dogs (and it's not all that uncommon for Havanese to love other Havanese and want nothing to do with other breeds) then it's a much tougher nut to crack to get the puppy over that. If you ever can.


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## David1969 (Nov 12, 2015)

Thank you so much for your input. I think I will take him tomorrow. He has been around plenty of people (not just the people in our family), but he hasn't been around dogs. Although the dogs in our neighborhood are friendly, they are quite large (a doberman, a black lab, and a boxer). Not sure he is ready for that type of socialization yet! The trainer he is going to is highly recommended, and unfortunately we didn't have him home for the class before this one. Hopefully we're not too late.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

David1969 said:


> Thank you so much for your input. I think I will take him tomorrow. He has been around plenty of people (not just the people in our family), but he hasn't been around dogs. Although the dogs in our neighborhood are friendly, they are quite large (a doberman, a black lab, and a boxer). Not sure he is ready for that type of socialization yet! The trainer he is going to is highly recommended, and unfortunately we didn't have him home for the class before this one. Hopefully we're not too late.


You're not too late, but it's never too early!  I think you are making the right decision to go tomorrow.

You are also right not to expose your small breed puppy ro large breed adult dogs that you don't KNOW FOR SURE are gentle with puppies. It's just not safe. Even large breed puppies are still learning, and especially in the first few weeks are not as fast, strong and coordinated as they will be later. It's a great time for large and small breed puppies to learn to deal safely with each other, as long as they are well supervised. It sounds like you are very comfortable with your trainer, so I assume that she runs a good Puppy K. Good luck and have fun!


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## David1969 (Nov 12, 2015)

Thanks again for taking the time to respond! Your knowledge is admirable. 

While I haven't met the trainer in person, she comes highly recommended and even called me to talk about my Bordetella concern. (She gave me a response similar to yours, while my vet said not to go, so I needed a second opinion). I asked the trainer a question and she sent me a video of her showing me how to do something with her dog. I was pretty impressed with that!

Thanks again, Karen!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

David1969 said:


> Thanks again for taking the time to respond! Your knowledge is admirable.
> 
> While I haven't met the trainer in person, she comes highly recommended and even called me to talk about my Bordetella concern. (She gave me a response similar to yours, while my vet said not to go, so I needed a second opinion). I asked the trainer a question and she sent me a video of her showing me how to do something with her dog. I was pretty impressed with that!
> 
> Thanks again, Karen!


I see you're in MA... Where are you going for training? Also, we have a group who get together for play dates occasionally during the nice weather. If you are interested, Pm me your e-mail address and I'll add you to our list, so you know when the next one is!


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## David1969 (Nov 12, 2015)

Yes, I am in MA and would love to get together when the weather is nice. The trainer offers the training at 3 locations, but Saturdays work best for me so that class is in Worcester. He went today for the first class and it was so fun, but he was so wiped out when we got home! It will be worthwhile for sure. 

I'll PM you my email address. Thank you!!


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

David1969 said:


> Yes, I am in MA and would love to get together when the weather is nice. The trainer offers the training at 3 locations, but Saturdays work best for me so that class is in Worcester. He went today for the first class and it was so fun, but he was so wiped out when we got home! It will be worthwhile for sure.
> 
> I'll PM you my email address. Thank you!!


If you are near Worcester, you're not too far from us either!


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## midwifeheather (Jan 30, 2015)

Great advice. I dont vaccinate for bordetella personally.


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