# Temperament testing



## Eveningpiper (Sep 23, 2015)

Our breeder did not do formal temperament testing to match puppies to owners and I sometimes wonder how our Ruby would have tested and if she would have been chosen as a match for us. (She is perfect for us so I am not second guessing, just trying to understand the process). It was interesting to see a prospective puppy getting a tummy rub on another members' video because our Ruby would never go on her back under any circumstances as a young puppy or now. But given that we have always had terriers prior to this and that we told the breeder that we like a spirited breed, maybe if there was a temperament test, we would have been matched to her after all. In the puppy culture video series I saw the temperament testing being done with the opening of an umbrella and the loud electronic toy etc. but I am not sure how the results are presented. Is it something like quiet puppy, timid puppy, aggressive puppy?


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

although some of the tests done on puppies at 7to8 weeks can give general characteristics , they are far from reliable at predicting anything concrete. S tudies have proven this. It is far from a science and many tests result in completely inaccurate results down the road. A dogs temperament is so much a product of it's environment. and only partially it's genetics . Temperament tests done at six months are a little more accurate but not by much. One study "An especially interesting outcome in this study is in the evaluation of fearfulness, which is the most common behavioral reason for a puppy to be rejected from a guide dog training program. They found that in evaluating fearfulness, "...some major changes were observed over time, with the initially most fearful individuals becoming most friendly to people or vice versa". That statement should give you pause. Could eliminating a puppy from a breeding program because of fearfulness be culling the dogs that will have the best temperaments as adults?"


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Eveningpiper said:


> Our breeder did not do formal temperament testing to match puppies to owners and I sometimes wonder how our Ruby would have tested and if she would have been chosen as a match for us. (She is perfect for us so I am not second guessing, just trying to understand the process). It was interesting to see a prospective puppy getting a tummy rub on another members' video because our Ruby would never go on her back under any circumstances as a young puppy or now. But given that we have always had terriers prior to this and that we told the breeder that we like a spirited breed, maybe if there was a temperament test, we would have been matched to her after all. In the puppy culture video series I saw the temperament testing being done with the opening of an umbrella and the loud electronic toy etc. but I am not sure how the results are presented. Is it something like quiet puppy, timid puppy, aggressive puppy?


Temperament testing is only one data point in learning about a puppy's strengths and weaknesses. I really like temperament testing, but if temperament testing seemed to show one thing, and the breeder's (especially an experienced breeder's) experience with a certain puppy says something else, I'd put MORE weight on the breeder's thoughts about that puppy.

While the better temperament test protocols do give ratings for each section of the test, what is much MORE important it a knowledgeable eye, that can interpret what's going on. For instance, when I recently helped temperament test a litter, the first part of the test is just to let the puppy free in the test room. The puppy should never have been in the space, and should not have met the evaluators. You are just supposed to wait and see what the puppy does. How fast they start to explore their environment, and how fast they begin to seem comfortable in the environment. One of the puppies came in and made a bee-line over to us (you are not supposed to engage in the puppy in any way at this point) and started tap dancing... doing absolutely everything she could to get our attention. She NEVER "explored the environment".

So, if you scored her strictly by the test protocol, she would have scored very poorly on this test item. But the REASON she didn't explore wasn't because she was nervous or unwilling to explore, but because she was SO COMPLETELY focused on getting the attention of the humans, that she never moved on. There's is NOTHING wrong with that... In many ways, it's wonderful. As the testing went on, it became apparent that she was completely comfortable in the space. She was a supremely confident puppy. So the score didn't accurately say much about her in that case.

We had another puppy who came in the room, and sat down against the door and wouldn't move. THAT'S a puppy I would worry about if he were going to a performance home. But he scored well in all other parts of the test, and he would have made (and has made) a lovely pet puppy.

You can never go backwards as re-do puppy temperament testing... Once "learned behavior" comes into play, you really can't gauge innate temperament any more. But you CAN help a puppy develop in ways that are important to you. A lot of temperament testing helps you know exactly what a specific puppy needs to work on. I would always want a puppy that I was interested in to be temperament tested. But it doesn't tell you everything, and there are no guarantees. It's just another piece of useful information in making your decision.

Honestly, it is the unusual Havanese puppy who doesn't come in as pretty even tempered. That's what they are bred for.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

much of what your talking about is snapshots in time. These sort of tests have proven in studies to be unreliable. While a puppy temperament test can provide some insight into a puppy's personality, there is serious limitations on their ability to predict how a dog will behave when it grows up. Far and away, the most important factor in an adult dog's behavior is the training and socialization they received throughout their life. Any puppy can be trained, regardless of how they perform on a temperament test. Ian Dunbar here's the studies

Companion Animal Psychology: Do Puppy Tests Predict Adult Dog Behaviour?

Genetics, behavior, and puppy temperament testing - The Institute of Canine Biology

Puppy Testing | Dog Star Daily


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

from the one article ...People that have been breeding dogs for decades and have much experience working with puppies might feel that they have some skill at evaluating temperament and behavior, but the studies that have tried to confirm the value of these evaluations have uniformly failed to validate them. Mind you, these studies used hundreds or even thousands of puppies from dozens of litters; the testing conditions were uniform, the protocols carefully followed, and the data analyzed with appropriate statistics. In the absence of properly done studies that demonstrate otherwise, there is no evidence that puppy evaluations have any value at all"


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Yeah Karen re your statement "Honestly, it is the unusual Havanese puppy who doesn't come in as pretty even tempered. That's what they are bred for." Me thinks you're a little biased, dear no ? But in reality John Paul Scott and John L. Fuller in their 1965 book, ''Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog,'' there is more variation in behavior and abilities among dogs within a breed than there is between breeds.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

more from Ian "Early testing only predicts how the puppies might develop if left to their own devices and if all treated equally. But pups and adolescents are never treated equally. Some grow up in great homes, others in good homes and yet others in bad homes — some poor dogs grow up with owners who should not be allowed to keep a rock, let alone a dog. The owner-variable far overshadows potential puppy predispositions. And without a doubt, a poor puppy prospect in a good home almost always becomes a better canine companion than a good puppy prospect in a poor home. 

Human intervention is certainly the most important factor determining predictability: whether or not the new owners capitalized on the dog's potential good characteristics and/or resolved expected or incipient bad characteristics that were revealed in earlier testing. It would be naive to expect a dog to cure his own faults. Behavior and temperament are in a state of constant flux, and without human guidance, faults generally tend to get worse rather than better. It would be tantamount to stupidity to test a pup and discover that he is fearful, rambunctious, or aggressive, yet leave him to develop in this expected fashion. Surely a major reason for early testing is to locate potential or incipient problems and solve them before they become full-blown. Similarly, it would be utter folly to assume that a dog's naturally good temperament will necessarily remain that way indefinitely. As soon as owners become presumptively audacious about their pet paragon with the perfect personality, the dog's demeanor will predictably begin to deteriorate". 

key words above " Behavior and temperament are in a state of constant flux,?
Jean Donaldson says "There are, at present, no dog-assessment procedures that are strong on the two critical test-evaluation yardsticks of reliability and validity."


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> much of what your talking about is snapshots in time. These sort of tests have proven in studies to be unreliable. While a puppy temperament test can provide some insight into a puppy's personality, there is serious limitations on their ability to predict how a dog will behave when it grows up. Far and away, the most important factor in an adult dog's behavior is the training and socialization they received throughout their life. Any puppy can be trained, regardless of how they perform on a temperament test. Ian Dunbar here's the studies
> 
> Companion Animal Psychology: Do Puppy Tests Predict Adult Dog Behaviour?
> 
> ...


Absolutely it's a snapshot in time, and (as I said) only ONE way to look at a puppy. But it IS a matter of nature AND nurture. Good puppies can certainly be ruined, but I don't care how carefully you raise a puppy who as a genetic temperament flaw, you can improve things... you can't make them go away. We see this all the time in dogs raised by the same experienced trainer. Sometimes one comes along that just, has problems.

If it were really true that absolutely every puppy will be the same with the same training, it wouldn't make any difference whether people bought their puppies from pretty pictures of the internet all the time. Puppies differ in very fundamental ways, just as children do. Any parent with more than one child will tell you how different children can be, from birth or even before birth.

You can choose your puppies any way you want, but for me, I want to see that temperament testing to see the raw material I'm working with... just like I want health testing, pedigree and soaps. Of course, even with all that, there are no guarantees... there aren't any time you are working with living creatures. But I prefer to stack the deck as much in my favour as I possibly can.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> Yeah Karen re your statement "Honestly, it is the unusual Havanese puppy who doesn't come in as pretty even tempered. That's what they are bred for." Me thinks you're a little biased, dear no ? But in reality John Paul Scott and John L. Fuller in their 1965 book, ''Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog,'' there is more variation in behavior and abilities among dogs within a breed than there is between breeds.


No, actually, that comment was based on the experiences of a number of long-term very experienced breeders I know who DO temperament testing. They all say that, at least with this breed (which, yes, I know the best) they typically come in as middle of the road puppies (which is where you expect pet breeds to come in... High drive working breeds are at one end and low drive herd guarding breeds are at the other end)


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

"We must recognize that we are not determining the true temperament of the dog: just the behavior on that given day at that given time. Is it fully accurate? No. Will there ever be an accurate temperament test? No. The problem with temperament testing is that it doesn't give us an accurate portrait of a dog's personality/behavior. It is a snapshot of what is occuring at that moment. Joachim Volhardand Gail Fisher define Temperament as “the dog’s suitability for a specific task or function.” They explain further, “there are no good or bad temperaments,”only “suitable or unsuitable” ones. The problem with this idea is that it stresses the task suitability or use of the dog, rather than its innate characteristics. The external controllable factors that the humans select, take precedence rather than the innate (genetic or congenital) characteristics of the dog. But what indeed are the innate characteristics, how do these characteristics influence the use of the dog? Unfortunately, many of these tests seem to have been developed without a systematic scientific approach. Perhaps as a result there are few reports of these tests in the scientific literature and even fewer that fully report their reliability and specific aspects of validity. This pattern is unfortunate, because the outcome of tests for companion dogs may have the potential to affect their welfare and survival. We need to encourage a more scientific approach to the development, conduct, and evaluation of temperament tests for adult companion dogs. Five key measures of the quality of a temperament test could be purpose, standardization, reliability, validity, and practicality."


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

here is an example how tests can be misinterpreted...
When talking about puppy temperament testing ,Ian Dunbar states..." even provided good inter-test reliability and a high validity of scores, test results are frequently misinterpreted, such that the tester's conclusions present an erroneous evaluation of the puppy's temperament. To illustrate, consider a visitation test in which three pups responded as follows: Pup#1 charged out of his cage, jumped-up and munched the tester's hand; Pup#2 approached enthusiastically with tail-a-wag, licked the tester's hand and then sat and gazed into his eyes; and Pup#3 remained cowering in his kennel. Usually, Pup#2 is described as highly socialized and trainable — the ideal pet, but Pups #1 and #3 are often deemed unsuitable as pets; Pup#1 because he is overly aggressive and difficult to train, and Pup#3 because he is under-socialized and fearful. It is presumptuous to assume Pup#3 would make an unsuitable pet. As is, the shy-little (or shy-big) critter may make an ideal companion for an elderly person living alone. But why not just eliminate the shyness altogether? There is no reason why the pup's sensitivity should be allowed to develop into a fulminating fearfulness. Sensitivity is an extremely desirable trait, especially for obedience and working dogs. By all means maintain the pup's sensitivity, which makes for easy training but also, build up the pup's confidence before the pup's potential timidity and fearfulness effectively destroy his worth as a competition dog, or companion animal. Routine socialization and commonsense canine husbandry easily prevent the otherwise predictable course of development of sensitivity into shyness and timidity, into apprehensiveness and fearfulness and ultimately, into aggression. To presume Pup #1 would be difficult to train is utterly unfounded, especially considering he demonstrated the speediest recall of the entire litter. With a little education — simply instructing him to sit before impacting mid-chest, (the dog can not jump-up and bite and remain sitting at the same time) — the dog's rambunctious exuberance may be re-channeled into eager obedience. To automatically condemn Pup#1 as being overly aggressive is equally erroneous. This interpretation confuses behavior with temperament — confusing puppy-biting behavior (a normal and natural behavior of all group-living carnivores) with aggressiveness (an undesirable trait). Rather, it is the puppy that does not mouth and bite as a youngster that augurs ill for the future. Play-biting is absolutely essential for the puppy to develop bite-inhibition; First to learn to inhibit the force of his bites and second, to learn situations when it is inappropriate to mouth at all. In reality, many so-called aptitude/temperament tests are in fact, simple behavior tests. Simple one-time observations of a puppy's behavior are used to make sweeping generalizations about the pup's future temperament. Results of a simple visitation test have been grossly extrapolated to draw quite complicated conclusions about trainability and temperament. If the intention is to evaluate these various attributes, we would do much better to specifically appraise the pup's learning speed, attention span, recognition, recall and memory, or to investigate reactiveness, bounce-back (forgiveness), specific sensitivities and fears."

Dogs are similar to humans. Indeed, there may be as much variation of behavior among individuals of the same litter as there is among dogs of different breeds. Environmental influences (socialization and training) exert a far greater impact on desired domestic behavior and temperament than genetic heredity. Attaining a desired domestic dog behavior is almost entirely dependent on socialization and training. For example, dogs bark, bite, urine mark, and wag their tails largely for genetic reasons — because they are dogs. The frequency of their barks, however, the severity of their bites, the location of their urine marks, and the enthusiasm of their tail wags depends pretty much on the nature of their socialization and training. In the book Genetics and the social Behavior of the Dog – John Paul Scott & John L. Fuller, state that “ there are relatively few behavioral traits for which any breed is homozygous, meaning - having identical pairs of genes for any given pair of hereditary characteristics. They further go on to say “even within this experiment there was a great deal of individual genetic variability”. The conclusion they came to was essentially “it is impossible to generalize about any one breed from experience with one dog, or even one strain of dog and it is likewise impossible to generalize about all dogs from experience with one breed”. Patricia McConnell says ... "I promise you that there is simply no way to know who this little pup will be when he gets older."


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## Karen Collins (Mar 21, 2013)

I agree with you Karen, temperament testing is a valuable tool. I use it to reinforce what I already know about my litter. After countless hours of observation I know who has the highest/lowest energy level. Who has the most drive and initiative. Who needs the most disciplining from the dam. Who is the trouble maker and who is the peace maker. But I want a trained outsider to look at them and tell me what they find. Kennel blindness is real thing.

It's not an exact science, but you try your best to place the puppy with the family who will likely best meet his/her needs. For instance, a strong willed puppy wouldn't be best in a first time pet owners home. Or a softer pup might not do well in a busy hectic household. I had a puppy in Dance's last litter who took the initiative to bring me a toy to play fetch with at barely 3 weeks of age. I threw the toy and she promptly returned with it and gave it to me to throw again. The rest of her siblings were not the least bit interested in that game that young. I didn't have a Karen Randall to place her with, but the family I did give her to was the one that was the most interested in training and obedience. And she has excelled and graduated at the top of all her classes.

Temperament tells you what traits an animal or person is born with, their personalities are their temperaments responding to the environment in which they are placed. 8 weeks for a puppy is the time when the pup is closest to being a mini adult, both in temperament/personality and structure. It's not perfect, but it's darn close.


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## Karen Collins (Mar 21, 2013)

davetgabby said:


> here is an example how tests can be misinterpreted...
> When talking about puppy temperament testing ,Ian Dunbar states..." even provided good inter-test reliability and a high validity of scores, test results are frequently misinterpreted, such that the tester's conclusions present an erroneous evaluation of the puppy's temperament. To illustrate, consider a visitation test in which three pups responded as follows: Pup#1 charged out of his cage, jumped-up and munched the tester's hand; Pup#2 approached enthusiastically with tail-a-wag, licked the tester's hand and then sat and gazed into his eyes; and Pup#3 remained cowering in his kennel. Usually, Pup#2 is described as highly socialized and trainable - the ideal pet, but Pups #1 and #3 are often deemed unsuitable as pets; Pup#1 because he is overly aggressive and difficult to train, and Pup#3 because he is under-socialized and fearful. It is presumptuous to assume Pup#3 would make an unsuitable pet. As is, the shy-little (or shy-big) critter may make an ideal companion for an elderly person living alone. But why not just eliminate the shyness altogether? There is no reason why the pup's sensitivity should be allowed to develop into a fulminating fearfulness. Sensitivity is an extremely desirable trait, especially for obedience and working dogs. By all means maintain the pup's sensitivity, which makes for easy training but also, build up the pup's confidence before the pup's potential timidity and fearfulness effectively destroy his worth as a competition dog, or companion animal. Routine socialization and commonsense canine husbandry easily prevent the otherwise predictable course of development of sensitivity into shyness and timidity, into apprehensiveness and fearfulness and ultimately, into aggression. To presume Pup #1 would be difficult to train is utterly unfounded, especially considering he demonstrated the speediest recall of the entire litter. With a little education - simply instructing him to sit before impacting mid-chest, (the dog can not jump-up and bite and remain sitting at the same time) - the dog's rambunctious exuberance may be re-channeled into eager obedience. To automatically condemn Pup#1 as being overly aggressive is equally erroneous. This interpretation confuses behavior with temperament - confusing puppy-biting behavior (a normal and natural behavior of all group-living carnivores) with aggressiveness (an undesirable trait). Rather, it is the puppy that does not mouth and bite as a youngster that augurs ill for the future. Play-biting is absolutely essential for the puppy to develop bite-inhibition; First to learn to inhibit the force of his bites and second, to learn situations when it is inappropriate to mouth at all. In reality, many so-called aptitude/temperament tests are in fact, simple behavior tests. Simple one-time observations of a puppy's behavior are used to make sweeping generalizations about the pup's future temperament. Results of a simple visitation test have been grossly extrapolated to draw quite complicated conclusions about trainability and temperament. If the intention is to evaluate these various attributes, we would do much better to specifically appraise the pup's learning speed, attention span, recognition, recall and memory, or to investigate reactiveness, bounce-back (forgiveness), specific sensitivities and fears."
> 
> Dogs are similar to humans. Indeed, there may be as much variation of behavior among individuals of the same litter as there is among dogs of different breeds. Environmental influences (socialization and training) exert a far greater impact on desired domestic behavior and temperament than genetic heredity. Attaining a desired domestic dog behavior is almost entirely dependent on socialization and training. For example, dogs bark, bite, urine mark, and wag their tails largely for genetic reasons - because they are dogs. The frequency of their barks, however, the severity of their bites, the location of their urine marks, and the enthusiasm of their tail wags depends pretty much on the nature of their socialization and training. In the book Genetics and the social Behavior of the Dog - John Paul Scott & John L. Fuller, state that " there are relatively few behavioral traits for which any breed is homozygous, meaning - having identical pairs of genes for any given pair of hereditary characteristics. They further go on to say "even within this experiment there was a great deal of individual genetic variability". The conclusion they came to was essentially "it is impossible to generalize about any one breed from experience with one dog, or even one strain of dog and it is likewise impossible to generalize about all dogs from experience with one breed". Patricia McConnell says ... "I promise you that there is simply no way to know who this little pup will be when he gets older."


Dave, I agree that the tests absolutely can be misinterpreted, but used as a tool to go along with what the breeder should already know, the tests can definitely help a breeder choose the best home. And as much as I like and respect Pat McConnell, I disagree with her statement about no way to know who the pup will be. I've never been surprised as to how my pups have turned out. There are always some variables, but by and large they hold true to who they were as little guys.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

Karen C , I have to strongly disagree with your statement "8 weeks for a puppy is the time when the pup is closest to being a mini adult, both in temperament/personality and structure. It's not perfect, but it's darn close" A lot of adults are quite different from their temperaments when they were pups. Unfortunately the tests prove these sort of temperament puppy tests are inaccurate at best.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

krandall said:


> No, actually, that comment was based on the experiences of a number of long-term very experienced breeders I know who DO temperament testing. They all say that, at least with this breed (which, yes, I know the best) they typically come in as middle of the road puppies (which is where you expect pet breeds to come in... High drive working breeds are at one end and low drive herd guarding breeds are at the other end)


Karen science doesn't differentiate , and what the heck is a pet breed. Nearly all dogs these days from breeders are pet breeds. And I can see where you rely on health testing soaps etc. as these are scientific truths. But unfortunately puppy temperament testing is not currently being recognized as an accurate science. And like the article says it probably will never be.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

davetgabby said:


> "We must recognize that we are not determining the true temperament of the dog: just the behavior on that given day at that given time. Is it fully accurate? No. Will there ever be an accurate temperament test? No. The problem with temperament testing is that it doesn't give us an accurate portrait of a dog's personality/behavior. It is a snapshot of what is occuring at that moment. Joachim Volhardand Gail Fisher define Temperament as "the dog's suitability for a specific task or function." They explain further, "there are no good or bad temperaments,"only "suitable or unsuitable" ones. The problem with this idea is that it stresses the task suitability or use of the dog, rather than its innate characteristics. The external controllable factors that the humans select, take precedence rather than the innate (genetic or congenital) characteristics of the dog. But what indeed are the innate characteristics, how do these characteristics influence the use of the dog? Unfortunately, many of these tests seem to have been developed without a systematic scientific approach. Perhaps as a result there are few reports of these tests in the scientific literature and even fewer that fully report their reliability and specific aspects of validity. This pattern is unfortunate, because the outcome of tests for companion dogs may have the potential to affect their welfare and survival. We need to encourage a more scientific approach to the development, conduct, and evaluation of temperament tests for adult companion dogs. Five key measures of the quality of a temperament test could be purpose, standardization, reliability, validity, and practicality."


A reliable temperament evaluation for adult dogs would be lovely for helping properly place shelter dogs. It has absoultey no value for people choosing a puppy, however.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

krandall said:


> A reliable temperament evaluation for adult dogs would be lovely for helping properly place shelter dogs. It has absoultey no value for people choosing a puppy, however.[/sQUOTE]
> 
> yes this would be valuable. Jean Donaldson is an expert in this field and is evolving but has a long way to go.


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## krandall (Jun 11, 2009)

Dave, I know you believe what you are saying. I know you have tons of book learning. But I also know, from personal experience AND from working with many, MANY performance dog owners... temperament testing isn't perfect, for sure. But it's WAY better than nothing. I don't know a single serious, competitive dog sport person who would play "Russian Roulette", close their eyes and just grab a puppy out of a litter. That's not what people do in the real dog world. 

Of COURSE anyone who sees a happy puppy come lunging and nipping and thinks it is "aggressive" needs their heads examined. (Or else is not ready for a high drive puppy) but the whole point of temperament testing is to give you an idea of what you will need to work with to bring out the best in that puppy.

If you want to pick out your next puppy blind, or based on looks, feel free. I will continue to use temperament testing as ONE of the points I look at in choosing the puppy who will best suit my needs. Then I will use that "snap shot" of information to bring out the best in the puppy I choose.


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## davetgabby (Dec 29, 2007)

I hear ya Karen . I talk daily with dog trainers and breeders and yes they all do some sort of testing when picking out a puppy and hundreds of them are involved in sports. Yes they look for certain traits. There definitely are things to look for. All I'm saying is that the studies have shown that much of what is tested in these tests is unreliable at predicting very much with any regularity. Puppies are so much a product of their environment. and as you said in humans ,there is no way to tell how a young child is going to turn out either. I look at the science as do nearly all dog trainers with any amount of training. Yes they look for things but they are far from being capable of predicting anything with much certainty. The research so far says this and that's all I'm trying to relate. Temperament in puppies is in constant flux. In a matter of two weeks it can change entirely. Gee we can't even find a reliable test for adults and they are much more established than puppies.


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