# How many litters?



## Rita

OK. It seems this has come up before and I think it would be great info for people looking for their new Hav. How many litters do breeders (good breeders) usually have a year? If they have a lot of litters should it send up a red flag? I know most of you have multiple dogs, so would the same bitch only be breed once a year?

Thanks for the info.


----------



## Cosmosmom

Good Question . I am curious also ..


----------



## Tom King

I don't know how many litters would be the threshold for being too many. A lot of breeders work at a regular job and also breed Havanese. Some breeders breed multiple breeds of dogs including Havanese.

For Pam the dogs are a full time job +++++. I also help a bit. We have 6 (after recently retiring a couple) breeding females and have 4 or 5 litters a year on average. 

Some experts recommend to breed a female every time she comes in heat. We have never done this and never will. Ours are retired from breeding well before they are run into the ground. When our dogs are retired from breeding they are spayed or neutered.

It's a complicated question.


----------



## CapotesMom

When I was looking I was told to make sure that the breeding dam was only having 1 litter per year and a 5 litter maximum.. This is what a bunch of people told me who work with dogs and such..so it was something I took into consideration highly.. 

If you think about it though, if you were a dog..how healthy would you feel if you had 5 litters at appx 5 pups each? Personally I'd be exhausted.


----------



## Havtahava

I completely agree with Tom - it's a complicated question. I don't think you can put a number on a breeder as making them good or bad. If they had two litters a year, and bred that number every year and only had one breeding bitch, then that is probably too much (in my opinion). If they have 10 breeding bitches and only have five litters a year on a regular basis, that isn't much at all.

There are many variables involved.


----------



## Tom King

Females typically come into heat anywhere from 6 to 11 months apart, so 2 litters per dog per year is not quite possible.


----------



## Havtahava

Right. I was giving examples of extremes. 

By the way, this is hardly related to the topic, but I have a bitch that comes into season about every 9-10 months and I believe her littermate is every six months like clockwork. I knew a Rottie breeder who said that the whole breed is fairly consistent about having six month cycles. If that is true, that is amazing to be that consistent.


----------



## SHOWDOWN

I THINK IT DEPENDS ON HOW MANY BITCHES A BREEDERS HAS.


----------



## Rita

Thanks for your comments. I guess it goes back to the fact that it is very important to try to visit the breeder in person to get an idea of how they care for their dogs. Research, Research, Research and make sure they do the required health testing.

Thanks again.

P.S. Just out of curiosity, when you talk about retiring a female from breeding, what aprox age would that be?


----------



## Havtahava

> P.S. Just out of curiosity, when you talk about retiring a female from breeding, what aprox age would that be?


 Rita, again, I think this question can have a lot of variables, but the Havanese Club of America has a standard for its members in the Code of Ethics that they not breed a bitch after she is eight years old. That seems pretty old to me for breeding, but I don't have any that old.


----------



## Tom King

Our oldest to retire was Twinkle, who had her last litter when she was 7. We probably would have retired her earlier but she had just gone through a rest cycle and was in such good shape. We had hoped to keep a girl from another litter out of her. In that litter, she gave us Posh who will no doubt be a great contributor to the breed and also the girl that we wanted to keep. She was spayed after that and at ten years old she still is as sharp as ever and still plays like a puppy as well as maintains her status as the matriarch of the pack.

We just retired Imme, who is the same breeding as Posh and Belle, at 5. She's still fit and strong but Belle has proven herself to be a better producer so we didn't need to keep breeding Imme.

Schubert was also just neutered at 5. He has added what we wanted from him into our line but we have his son Keeper whose bottom line goes back 4 generations to Twinkle and has proven to be a more consistent producer. It was just frustrating to Schubert to stay intact without any of our females to breed to. Neutering him did change his outlook on life and he is much more peaceful and happy now. Schubert sired the breed winner at Eukanuba this past year but we didn't let that influence our decision.


----------



## Greg

The number of litters/yr/bitch is always a touchy subject. Currently, the top Canine Reproductive Specialists recommend you breed a bitch early and often. They suggest starting at 18 mos and breeding every cycle for 5 cycles. The University of Florida Vet School along with Ohio State, LSU and Texas A&M are some of the vet schools that recommend this. 

So, if you find someone doing this, it isn't necessarily wrong. Nor do they love their dogs less. To each his own I guess. 

And again, the world was thought to be flat once too.


----------



## JASHavanese

*How many litters to breed?*



Greg said:


> The number of litters/yr/bitch is always a touchy subject. Currently, the top Canine Reproductive Specialists recommend you breed a bitch early and often. They suggest starting at 18 mos and breeding every cycle for 5 cycles. The University of Florida Vet School along with Ohio State, LSU and Texas A&M are some of the vet schools that recommend this.
> 
> So, if you find someone doing this, it isn't necessarily wrong. Nor do they love their dogs less. To each his own I guess.
> 
> And again, the world was thought to be flat once too.


Greg I have your darling little Bandit here (she sends you licks) so I called all of the vet schools you mentioned. Here are the people I talked to and what they told me.
Texas A&M refers people to the reproduction specialist, Jim Ruglia who works with Dr Lara. Dr Lara says safe breeding is 2 heats in a row, skip a heat, breed one more time and spay after you have the 3rd litter. She is a reproduction specialist and has been a breeder for 30 years. Here is her phone number. 979 823-5495
At LSU, I spoke to Dr Paccamonti at 225-578-9900. He is also a reproduction specialist and has worked at LSU for 18 years. He says neither he nor the head of the department Dr Eilts have ever recommended breeding 5 litters from one bitch and asked that I give his views on it. He said he felt it was animal abuse to breed back to back 5 times. I feel that language is a little harsh, but he asked that I write it along with his name.
I spoke to Dr. Threlfall with Ohio State at 614 292-1171 and he said to wait to breed a bitch on her 3rd heat as he feels the body is fully mature then. I asked him if they recommended 5 back to back breedings and his reply was, "why stop at 5, why not 6 or 7". 
I was never able to speak to anyone at the University of Florida but their number is 352 392-2226. If someone gets their opinion, I'd be interested in seeing what they say.


----------



## JASHavanese

Rita said:


> OK. It seems this has come up before and I think it would be great info for people looking for their new Hav. How many litters do breeders (good breeders) usually have a year? If they have a lot of litters should it send up a red flag? I know most of you have multiple dogs, so would the same bitch only be breed once a year?
> 
> Thanks for the info.


I think a better question to ask a breeder is how many litters the dam has had. Do your own research, determine what you think is right and make your decisions from there. Stick to what your gut tells you is right and don't get taken in by fancy talking sales people.


----------



## radar_jones

Does the litter amount also extend to Stud Service??? Would the litter conceived by a male who had perhaps been "Thinned Out" a bit from excessive usage be perhaps less than healthy from say a Male that had been Studded out conservatively.

Just a Thought......

Derek


----------

