# Raw and loose stools?



## louise

I'm feeding Ellie (now 7 months old), 2 oz of NV in the AM, 1/8 cup of Innova Puppy food in the afternoon and then 2 oz of NV in the PM. I vary the varieties of NV so that one day she'll get lamb, another day venison, another day chicken, etc.

When she eats the raw food, she poops right away (like within 5 or so minutes). Her stools, especially after the morning raw, are very soft - hard to pick up without sort of mushing them. They are definitely formed - she has never had "real" diahrrea.

The speed with which she poops after eating is ok because she is paper trained.

But I am wondering whether the looseness of the stools combined with the immediacy of the pooping after eating the raw food suggests that this isn't the right diet or the right combination for her?

I leave at least 4 hours between raw and kibble and at least 5 or 6 hours between kibble and the second raw.

Stool sample has been done and she did have giardia but after a second round of medication, there is no giardia and no other parasites or problems with the stool sample.

Thoughts?

Louise


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## PepperToast

Hi Louise,

My dogs poop right after they eat so I think that is OK. You definitely want those poops to firm up like they should.

So some suggestions...

Do you feed a probiotic? You might want to if you can, that will help restore her intestinal bacteria.

I would ditch the dry food until you get her straightened out. So her system is minimally challenged.

I also would NOT very her type of meat right now. Perhaps just do lamb for the moment. This will also allow you to see if it is the type of meat that is causing this issue. I know that some dogs don't do great with chicken.

Also... a point that not all people agree with here on this forum. My dogs do not do well with alfalfa in any amount. They throw it up. NV contains this ingredient. Also, I give a very very dilute amount of Oil of Oregano to help fully clear up any bowel infections or invaders. It worked WONDERS for my big dog who could not firm up his stools despite the clear tests. 

HTH,

Meeka


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## RikiDaisyDixie

*all raw, very hard and dry poops*

any change in diet causes loose stools pretty much. Changing back and forth hasn't worked well for us. My dogs eat raw only for a while, then I go back to really good kibble simply because it is hard on our budget.

We have heard of a new place that is 30% less locally, so if that is the case...we will be all raw. My dogs have stools that are almost white, and very dry and easy to clean up.

If anyone gives them table scraps, immediate loose stools. Their stools are looser on good kibble than they have ever been after they are on the raw diet for a week or so.

All dogs systems are different though...


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## louise

Which brand is a good Probiotic?

The dry food seems to firm up her stools - why would you ditch it? I've been feeding dry food to help clean her teeth. However, the Innova Puppy has lots of grains. What if I switched to Evo Ancestral which has no grains?

When you say don't vary - do you mean go a month or two with only one variety?

If she has a reaction to the alfalfa, I don't see it - she loves the food and seems perfectly happy after eating - just loose stools which don't bother her at all.

Thanks again.

Louise


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## DanielBMe

Not sure where you got that Innova Puppy has lots of grains. It actually doesn't. It's a high quality food. It is a bit richer in vegetables than some of the other puppy foods.



> Ingredients:
> Turkey, chicken, chicken meal, barley, brown rice, rice, chicken fat, herring, flaxseed, natural flavors, apples, tomatoes, carrots, potatoes, pumpkin, potassium chloride, herring oil, sea salt, sunflower oil, cottage cheese, alfalfa sprouts, dried chicory root, direct-fed microbials, lecithin, rosemary extract, vitamins/minerals


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## DanielBMe

First thing I would do is just stick to one raw food, ex chicken, and feed that for both meals and get rid of the Innova. It's possible the combination of the two is not mixing well in her stomach. I would do this for a test to see if after about a week, her stools firm up. I would expect it to.

As well, the kibble does nothing to clean the teeth. If anything it would stick to the teeth and hence gum up her teeth (although even that is an exageration). If you want to keep her teeth clean, start brushing now maybe twice a week. Time to start is when you have a puppy so she's used to it as an adult. I brush my guys teeth once a week even though they chew on bones.


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## PepperToast

louise said:


> Which brand is a good Probiotic?
> 
> The dry food seems to firm up her stools - why would you ditch it? I've been feeding dry food to help clean her teeth. However, the Innova Puppy has lots of grains. What if I switched to Evo Ancestral which has no grains?
> 
> When you say don't vary - do you mean go a month or two with only one variety?
> 
> If she has a reaction to the alfalfa, I don't see it - she loves the food and seems perfectly happy after eating - just loose stools which don't bother her at all.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Louise


I suggested to stick to just raw because that produces the firmest stools (and I am biased to raw if truth be told  )

I think that there are a lot of good probiotics. I get mine at a good natural foods store, the brand is not so important.

Yes, I mean go for a month or so on just one type of meat. That would be more than ok for sure. Unless of course she gets worse on that type of meat then switch to another but stick to the same type. Just to stabilize her system.

I will not comment any further on alfalfa but just to say several dogs I personally know can not eat it and will throw it up. Obviously you know your own dog and will do what is best for her.

I hope it gets better soon. Keep us posted.

Meeka


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## Lina

I don't understand why you are feeding her 3x a day at 7 months? She only needs to eat 2x a day. I would also go either kibble or raw, not both, especially if it's obviously not being good for her digestion.


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## louise

I guess there's no good reason for the kibble. Part of it is that she seems really hungry mid afternoon and since I'm around, I see it and I want to be "nice". 

About two months ago I transitioned from free feed kibble to just a little bit mid afternoon which she gobbles up. I guess I could stop it and see what happens.

I will also stick to one variety of raw as soon as I run out of the several different ones I have in the freezer which should only take a few weeks.

Louise


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## Lina

Louise, if she really seems hungry in the afternoon and you're home, why not have a quick training session with a little tiny bit of boiled chicken (or some other treat that is easy on the stomach) just to hold her over? That way you're not feeding her a whole meal but at least she'll have something in her stomach if you think she needs it and you can get a training session in as well.


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## DanielBMe

Keep in mind a puppy should be eating about 5-6% of their body weight when feeding raw. How heavy is she? Let's assume she's about 8lbs. I would say she should be getting approx 7 medallions a day. So for breakfast give her maybe 3-3.5 and for dinner another 3-3.5. Puppies require almost double that of adults.


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## louise

She is 11 pounds at 7 months and the vet is concerned she is heavy. She has been getting 2 medalions for breakfast and 2 more medalions at dinner. In the middle of the day she is getting 1/4 cup of Innova Puppy.

She does look a little on the chubby stomach side and she has been spayed, so I have been told to cut the food a little and I'm now giving her 1/8 cup of kibble.

Louise


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## marjrc

PepperToast said:


> Hi Louise,
> My dogs poop right after they eat so I think that is OK. You definitely want those poops to firm up like they should.
> 
> So some suggestions...
> Do you feed a probiotic? You might want to if you can, that will help restore her intestinal bacteria.
> 
> I would ditch the dry food until you get her straightened out. So her system is minimally challenged.
> 
> I also would NOT very her type of meat right now. Perhaps just do lamb for the moment. This will also allow you to see if it is the type of meat that is causing this issue. I know that some dogs don't do great with chicken.
> 
> Also... a point that not all people agree with here on this forum. My dogs do not do well with alfalfa in any amount. They throw it up. NV contains this ingredient. Also, I give a very very dilute amount of Oil of Oregano to help fully clear up any bowel infections or invaders. It worked WONDERS for my big dog who could not firm up his stools despite the clear tests.
> HTH, Meeka


Yup. What Meeka said. :biggrin1: Well... not sure about the oregano oil since I don't know about using that in animals, esp. one so young and small. I'm just not familiar with it enough to know.

When my dogs eat raw, the poop is dry, light in color (grayish/beige/white) and crumbles, so definitely not mushy.

How's Ellie doing now?


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## louise

Problem may be solved? If this is still nutrition enough for a 7 month old.

I gave her the normal 2 medalions in the morning and the night. BUT instead of Innova Pupply food, I gave her Evo Ancestral Small Bites. Her stools were not loose yesterday or today.

When looking at the ingredients, the one thing that really stood out for me was that the Innova had flaxseed which they say is a good fiber - perhaps not for her? Or, perhaps, too much of a good thing?

If this continues to work, it seems ok to me since she definitely is hungry in the mid afternoon and a small amount of food (like 1/8 cup of Evo Small Bites) seems to be enough to make her comfortable.

Thoughts?

Louise


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## marjrc

Louise, if it works, then go for it. Will you eventually up the amt. fed in the morning and at night, or will there always be a snack midday ? Are there times you are out and she doesn't get the midday food? You will probably end up just leaving a bit out, depending on Ellie's appetite as she grows.

There are many small dogs that have a harder time digesting kibble when fed too close to raw food, but if her stools are fine, her activity level is good, then it sounds o.k.


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## louise

Yes, there are times I'm out and she doesn't get the mid-day snack. Sometimes she just gets dinner and doesn't notice. Other times, 3 or 4 hours after dinner, she is ravenous and I give her the kibble. 

But for weight reasons, and digestive reasons, I am down to 1/8 of a cup, which seems to satisfy her.

Apparently flaxseed isn't so good for her - too much fiber I guess - it is the major difference I saw between the two foods.

Louise


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## Sandi Kerger

*Raw diet*

I am feeding Fipsy raw as well, and this is very strange, but her stools are fine when she is going outside in the backyard, but this is very weird, when we go for our walks, that is when her stools are loose and sort of a yellowy colour, is that something to worry about?

I was thinking this is happening because she is excited to go for her walks?

Am I wrong? Is this something to worry about?

I also give her Evo treats (don't know if you have Evo in the U.S.) and feed her some cottage cheese, and eggs (once in a while), and we also put Apple Cider Vinegar in her food in the a.m. and fish oil in the p.m. (would this be too much - we don't put much in just a few drops). She also gets a very small spoonful of veggies in with her meat?

Sandi.


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