# Lincoln's skin infection



## Jane

My poor baby Lincoln is in his 13th day of wearing the CONE for an ongoing skin infection. He was digging into these sores on his face, leaving them bleeding, so I took him to urgent care on 9/1 and he was given antibiotics. After 11 days of those plus wearing the Cone, he seemed to be getting better so we took the cone off.

After 5 cone-free days of living it up, he had another flare up, and gouged up his face again. Last night the vet tech said we could give him human Benadryl. Now the vet thinks it may be allergy related since the antibiotics didn't really do much. And what's worse is that we put the cone back on him but Lincoln figured out how to lay in a "u" shape and twist his head to get his back foot into the cone to scratch his face and head! Having a long body, it is easy for him to do. So, I went to the vet again today to pick up a doggie antihistamine and a DEEPER cone for him which seems to be working better at blocking him from scratching.

He has been suffering with these skin eruptions since just before I went to the Nationals in Denver. He had a flare up again Sept 1 and now again this week. I just put 2 and 2 together and now I suspect he is allergic to the shampoo I am using on his head, since the eruptions are only on his head and neck and not anywhere on his body and seem to happen 1-2 days after he has a bath!

I use two shampoos on his face: one is a whitening shampoo from All systems that I've been using on him since he was 1 year old. The other is a supposedly hypo-allergenic formula that is tearless. I'm thinking the tearless shampoo may be the culprit since I just started using it maybe a couple of months ago when my first bottle of tearless shampoo ran out (which was a different brand). 

I'd appreciate any insights or thoughts anyone might have, or if you have had any similar experiences!


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## Laurief

Poor baby- that must be so frustrating. If I were you I would switch both products that you use on the face area. I was told by my vet, that they can develope allergies to something at any time, like Lexi is not doing with her food that he had been on for a few years. I would do whatever it takes to get the allergic reation to go away - it can develop into other things. Give him a kiss for us. 
Laurie


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## Missy

Oh Poor Lincoln!!! Jane, I don't know which I feel worse for him for - the itchies or having to wear the cone. :frusty: I agree with Laurie, that I would switch both shampoos--- may want to try the shampoo you use on his body and just be careful around his eyes. Also have you been trying any new foods in the past couple of months. I think that could cause it too. Give Lincoln a big hug from me and the boys


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## Leslie

Bless his heart, poor baby! As a fellow skin allergy sufferer I can totally sympathize with him.

We had a little weiner dog who could bend himself in half and scratch w/a cone on, too. It's gotta be that long body...

Give Lincoln huge healing hugs from me!


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## mintchip

Jane-
I had/have skin allergies as well which turned out to be from soap. We tried ALL different soap brands etc. no luck. After a year of testing we discovered I am allgeric to sodium lauyrl sulphate. ("It "makes the soap bubble more and is not necessary in soap. The add it because people think more bubbles=cleanner skin/stuff
Watch out changing shampoos because it is in most. 
This really sounds like the same condition I would have from the soaps. I wanted to scratch like crazy
Sally


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## Jane

Thank you Laurie, Missy, Leslie and Sally for your sympathy! I think you are right, Laurie, I'd better abandon both products even though I *really* love that whitening shampoo. It just isn't worth it to see him suffer. And Missy, it is so sad when I can see Lincoln has an itch - he'll whine and you'll see his back feet twitching wanting to scratch it. Sometimes he scratches the cone anyway. I decided to spoil him a teeny bit with a new rolled leather collar to hold the cone on instead of the scrap of gauze they gave me at the vet's...and a few extra pieces of dried chicken breast (homemade, not from China!) 

The worst part was when I took Scout to a Hav playdate today. He looked so excited when I got Scout's collar and leash on...but then I had to leave him behind....:Cry:


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## Rita

Poor Lincoln. Hope he is feeling better soon. Allergies stink!!!!!!!


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## Lynn

Jane,
So sorry to hear about Lincoln's skin condition, I hope the benadryl is going to make it alot better soon.


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## Missy

> The worst part was when I took Scout to a Hav playdate today. He looked so excited when I got Scout's collar and leash on...but then I had to leave him behind


Ohhh poor poor Lincoln. I wish him a very speedy recovery. I too get itchy rashes all the time and if I could scratch them with my back legs I would too.

When Jasper had them the vet gave me a powerful topical cortisone in powder form that you made into a paste - I'm sorry I don't remember the name but it worked pretty fast. maybe ask your vet about it.


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## Julie

Hey Jane----
Give my crush a big hug and a little scratch from me!I hope he gets better soon!:hugoor Lincoln.....(he still is a heart throb in a cone):kiss:


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## The Fussy Puppy Gang

Oh poor Lincoln - I hope changing the shampoos is the answer and that he's healed real soon. He's such a handsome fellow, even when he's feeling itchy.

Wanda


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## Jane

Thanks everyone  I'll let Lincoln know that you still think he looks handsome in his cone. The new deeper one makes him look like a Havanese Martini - it is really ridiculous!

Lincoln's breeder recommended that I wash Lincoln's head again with Johnson & Johnson baby shampoo instead. I think I might just give his head a good rinse with water tomorrow to get off any residue of the "bad" shampoo. I don't want to irritate his wounds too much. I am also giving him the doggie antihistamine hoping he won't be so itchy....it says it might make him drowsy or dizzy but I haven't seen any evidence of that at all! Hee hee


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## radar_jones

Man those stupid cones suck don't they....poor guy. Radar hasn't wore his E-collar for the entire week almost since his neutering. He didn't like it and he really wasn't licking himself all that much and besides his incision is almost not even visible. I hate if he happens to jump up when I'm sitting and he has that thing on and I get smacked right in the face with it....sharp edges sometimes let me tell ya.....ouch....

Derek


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## Janet Zee

*Jane*

So sorry poor Lincoln is so uncomfortable. Hope the shampoo change does the trick.

I'll have a double Lincoln Martini thank you.


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## Missy

Hav-a-tini. I believe those will have to be served at Club Fritos. Hugs to lincoln.


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## Julie

Janet Zee;4461
I'll have a double Lincoln Martini thank you.[/QUOTE said:


> I'll have one of those too!:becky:
> 
> I do hope it is just the shampoo and he is better soon!


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## Havtahava

Jane, I'm really sorry that he had another flare-up. That's a bummer.

I was wondering... Since a person can develop a sudden allergy to a food they have eaten all their lives, I wonder if Lincoln could have developed an allergy to the shampoo that you had been using. That would stink.

If you ever feel the need to pursue the source of the allergy, assuming there is one, there is a canine allergy specialist over in San Leandro.


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## Jane

radar_jones said:


> I hate if he happens to jump up when I'm sitting and he has that thing on and I get smacked right in the face with it....sharp edges sometimes let me tell ya.....ouch....
> 
> Derek


Oh yeah....we've all got crescent shaped scratches in our calves!!
Amazingly, Lincoln and Scout still romp and manage to play "bitey face"...I'm surprised Scout doesn't have nose lacerations yet!


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## Jane

Havtahava said:


> Jane, I'm really sorry that he had another flare-up. That's a bummer.
> 
> I was wondering... Since a person can develop a sudden allergy to a food they have eaten all their lives, I wonder if Lincoln could have developed an allergy to the shampoo that you had been using. That would stink.
> 
> If you ever feel the need to pursue the source of the allergy, assuming there is one, there is a canine allergy specialist over in San Leandro.


Thanks for the tip on the canine allergy specialist - I will definitely keep that in mind if my vet cannot help us get to the bottom of this!

People tell me that you can develop an allergy to something even if you've used it w/o problems for awhile. Apparently they don't go away, so whatever is the culprit is off the list forever....I will have to stop using both shampoos.

Love your new avatar of Piaget!!!!


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## Jane

Julie, Janet and Missy:

Those Hav-a-tini's are mighty.....hairy looking! 

Blech....


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## Jane

A photo of the Hav-a-tini:


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## Jane

So my vet thinks Lincoln does have an allergy. I took him for a "recheck" appt today and she took a culture from one of his scabs (he didn't like that at all, or the rectal temp!)
She said there is no infection or bacteria anymore, but she saw some kind of white blood cells (I forgot the name) that indicate the body is having an allergic response. 

She told me the first culture that the urgent care vet took did show bacteria, so he probably scratched himself so much that his skin got infected. The antibiotics have taken care of that. 

Hopefully in a week, all his sores will be healed and he will be cone free. And it will be bath time again for him but I am NOT using either of those shampoos ever again!


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## Havtahava

Jane said:


> A photo of the Hav-a-tini:


Oh, my buddy Lincoln! He still looks fabulous, even in a cone. Please give him a hug from me. I don't think I even hugged him once this week when I saw him. He was too interested in getting outside! LOL


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## Missy

Jane, Your Lincoln Hav-a-tini is just so cute I could just drink him up!!! all that hair won't bother me.... I hope he continues to get better and I hope it is as simple as changing the shampoo. keep us posted.


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## Jane

*Still in the cone zone*

Argh, Lincoln is still in the cone. It is driving us all insane. We are going on 3 weeks now. Last night we took him out and just stopped him from scratching by sitting him on our laps and, well, scratching his head behind the ears for him!

We think he is getting better...but then we find new eruptions on his skin. It seems endless. This morning we rinsed his entire head with water only. I don't know if it will help, but we figured it wouldn't make things worse.

I hope we don't have to visit the canine dermatologist....$$$


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## Havtahava

Oh, drat. I saw you posted an update and I was hoping you were going to say that it was all gone. What a hassle.

Did your vet give him something that you can apply topically? Of course, if he is getting new eruptions in other places, that would be useless. Darn, darn, darn.


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## good buddy

oooh Jane, so sorry to hear he isn't getting better! Maybe you should go see the Dermatologist...maybe he needs medicine of some sort? Bummer. Try not to let it get you down. Has he had a bath recently? Could the new eruptions be related to his shampoo?


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## mintchip

Has anything changed in the house? New capets,plants, detergents?
How about around your yard or neighborhood? Food or Treats?:frusty: 
How about collar or toys? Could he be allergic to flea bites?
Poor guy I hope he is better soon
Sally


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## Jane

mintchip said:


> Has anything changed in the house? New capets,plants, detergents?
> How about around your yard or neighborhood? Food or Treats?:frusty:
> How about collar or toys? Could he be allergic to flea bites?
> Poor guy I hope he is better soon
> Sally


Thanks everyone. I haven't bathed him since 9/11 and I'm scared to even think about it right now!

Sally, I can't think of anything else that could be causing the problem except the shampoo. I used it 3 times on him - each time, his allergic reaction has gotten progressively worse, so it is taking him a longer time to recover from this last bath. I feel terrible that I did this to him (although I didn't know). My vet said flea bites would show up on the back of the dog usually, rather than the face and head. No new foods or treats - I just got rid of all the made in China ones 

Christy and Kimberly, I have a topical steroid that I dab on his wounds when they get really bad. But it said use for 7 days on the bottle and it has been 21 days. So, I really try not to use it unless he has a bad one. I think it can also thin the skin out which will make it weaker. A friend recommended a homeopathic ointment, but when I looked into it, it said there may be some potential negative interactions if you are also on antihistamines (which he is)...

My poor puffy baby.


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## Julie

I'm so sorry to read about Lincoln's updates.Poor guy!:hug::kiss:I thought he would be all better by now.Darn it!Best wishes to Lincoln......he is a very handsome guy....a cone free day will come---just hang in there.:thumb:


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## lfung5

Oh, what a horrible situation. I totally know the feeling. Freddie and Scudder had bumps all over this summer and were both scratching like crazy! I thought they had fleas! I gave them Benadryl every 8 hours along with an antibiotic. The emergency vet gave me an antibiotic that didn't work, but my regular vet change the drug and it cleared up. I never found out what cause it, but did take most grain out of their diet and washed them with oatmeal shampoo until it cleared up. Good luck!


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## JASHavanese

Jane said:


> Thanks everyone. I haven't bathed him since 9/11 and I'm scared to even think about it right now!
> .


I wonder if cool water would feel good on him? Your poor baby  I hope this stops soon :hug:


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## mintchip

Just a guess---Try washing his bedding with water or something it may have residue from shampoo.


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## Paige

Are you sure it's not food. I have gotten bumps in my scalp that itched like crazy from wheat. Crazy things happen to me when I eat food. lol


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## mintchip

I know a little girl at school was having an allergic response to her Mother's hand lotion. She never put it on but when she held Mom's hand it bothered her


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## JASHavanese

mintchip said:


> Just a guess---Try washing his bedding with water or something it may have residue from shampoo.


I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I'd change a lot of things. No scented candles, no air spray, use Ivory soap for washing and laundry, different floor cleaner and I'd feed only free range cooked chicken for 2 weeks. Allergies are a son of a gun to figure out.


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## Sissygirl

I am so sorry to hear that Lincoln is still suffering with this..

Has he been on any antibiotics or steroid meds? I know this may sound funny but one time I (don't know if it relates to dogs) had a terrible reaction from the combination of antibiotics and steroids at the same time.

Sissy is allergic to the shampoo at the groomers and the finishing spray would make her itch. It took a while to figure that out - but nothing severe as poor Lincoln.

Hope you find a break soon!:frusty:


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## mintchip

Oliver after every meal will go rub his face in his pillow.(Since he was a puppy) I thought that was an allergy sign but the Vet doesn't. (He only does it right after eating so maybe he is washing his face.)
Marie--Sissy is adorable- soap allergies are hard to find. You are lucky you discovered it.
Jan I am allergic to Ivory soap.
Sally


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## Poornima

Hi Jane,
I thought I was going to hear a positive update on Lincoln when I saw the post. Poor Lincoln! I hope you are able to find the cause of his irritation soon. 
Sending a lot of healthy thoughts and good wishes to Lincoln!


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## Lina

I'm really sorry to hear that Lincoln is still having skin problems! I hope that you will be able to find out what is causing this soon! Poor Lincoln. :hug:


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## Thumper

Jane said:


> Thanks everyone. I haven't bathed him since 9/11 and I'm scared to even think about it right now!
> 
> Sally, I can't think of anything else that could be causing the problem except the shampoo. I used it 3 times on him - each time, his allergic reaction has gotten progressively worse, so it is taking him a longer time to recover from this last bath. I feel terrible that I did this to him (although I didn't know). My vet said flea bites would show up on the back of the dog usually, rather than the face and head. No new foods or treats - I just got rid of all the made in China ones
> 
> Christy and Kimberly, I have a topical steroid that I dab on his wounds when they get really bad. But it said use for 7 days on the bottle and it has been 21 days. So, I really try not to use it unless he has a bad one. I think it can also thin the skin out which will make it weaker. A friend recommended a homeopathic ointment, but when I looked into it, it said there may be some potential negative interactions if you are also on antihistamines (which he is)...
> 
> My poor puffy baby.


Have you considered food? If discontinuing the shampoo doesn't clear it up, I would seriously consider starting an elimination diet. I know it may be a longshot,

But I get rashes from foods..I don't see why that couldn't happen with an animal, too. It is probably very rare, but worth looking into.

I'm sorry he is still dealing with this! I hope he gets better soon.

Kara


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## Missy

sorry about Lincoln Jane. Allergies can be the hardest thing to figure out. and so frustrating. I wish you luck. hopefully it will resolve soon.


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## mckennasedona

Poor Lincoln (and poor Jane and family)! I've been away from the Hav lists for most of the last two weeks and I thought sure the most recent posts would say Lincoln was all healed up. I'm so sorry to hear that he's not quite there yet. Allergies are such a hassle to figure out. Is it still limited to his head and face? Is there anything in your yard that he rubs his face on?

Give him a big hug from sister Sedona and half sis McKenna!

Susan


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## elregalohavanese

*allergies*

If it turns out that it is not the shampoo...start looking at foods. One of our havs developed a rash only on her tummy and she had been on the same food for a year but developed an allergy to the chicken so you never know...


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## Jane

Thanks to all of you for the encouragement that someday Lincoln will indeed be "cone free"! I thought it would be by now, so that is why I am getting discouraged. Perhaps though we are getting closer...and it will be soon!

Sally, that is a good idea for me to wash his bedding, etc. I will try that. He also (like Oliver) wipes his head and face on things after he eats....like my house is just a big napkin! :doh: 

Paige, Kara, and elregalo, I agree. If this doesn't resolve soon, I will have to try figuring out if this could be food based. I would be surprised if it is, just because I have gone back to feeding him his mostly kibble diet after a 3-month stint of home cooking. Same brand, etc. Same treats as always, minus the made in China ones  But you just never know, really! He could have developed a sensitivity to something he used to be able to tolerate - that did happen to his brother a few months ago. If we need to go that route, I'll need someone to pass me some rabbit or venison!

Jan, even though I am tempted, I am terrified right now to make any changes just in case I introduce even more allergens. I would be comfortable eliminating things and then adding back in. I will not be experimenting with different grooming products on Lincoln anymore. Thank goodness I have found what works well for him, so I can hopefully just stick with those products!

Susan, you know, I noticed a couple of weeks ago, that he also has a few eruptions along his right front leg bone. He'll nibble at them (to scratch them) when the cone is off. Not sure if the shampoo dribbled there during bathing - it is possible since he has his front paws up on the sink divider when I'm bathing him.

Please keep the ideas coming....that's what I love about this group. We can and do put our heads together to help our Havs! :grouphug: Thanks, everyone!!


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## JASHavanese

mintchip said:


> Oliver after every meal will go rub his face in his pillow.(Since he was a puppy) I thought that was an allergy sign but the Vet doesn't. (He only does it right after eating so maybe he is washing his face.)
> Marie--Sissy is adorable- soap allergies are hard to find. You are lucky you discovered it.
> Jan I am allergic to Ivory soap.
> Sally


Oh my and that's supposed to be really gentle. When they were trying to figure out what my allergies are I had to change to Ivory soap. I guess that isn't always a good idea.


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## JASHavanese

Thumperlove said:


> Have you considered food? If discontinuing the shampoo doesn't clear it up, I would seriously consider starting an elimination diet. I know it may be a longshot,
> 
> But I get rashes from foods..I don't see why that couldn't happen with an animal, too. It is probably very rare, but worth looking into.
> 
> I'm sorry he is still dealing with this! I hope he gets better soon.
> 
> Kara


Have you been on the elimination diet Kara? I lost 6 pounds in a week on it. My doctor really gave me heck for that, but gee, I didn't like most of the stuff on it so there wasn't much to eat. uke: One more bite of free range chicken would have had me out in the backyard scratching the dirt and looking for a rooster.


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## JASHavanese

Jane said:


> Susan, you know, I noticed a couple of weeks ago, that he also has a few eruptions along his right front leg bone. He'll nibble at them (to scratch them) when the cone is off. Not sure if the shampoo dribbled there during bathing - it is possible since he has his front paws up on the sink divider when I'm bathing him.
> 
> Please keep the ideas coming....that's what I love about this group. We can and do put our heads together to help our Havs! :grouphug: Thanks, everyone!!


Jane, it could be possible that the shampoo had nothing to do with it. They have a blood test they can run on dogs to test for allergies but I don't know how accurate it is. I had one run on me and it was 400 thrown down the drain. It didn't even show the foods that stop me from breathing as me being allergic to them. Hopefully the test for dogs is more accurate.


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## Jane

JASHavanese said:


> Jane, it could be possible that the shampoo had nothing to do with it. They have a blood test they can run on dogs to test for allergies but I don't know how accurate it is. I had one run on me and it was 400 thrown down the drain. It didn't even show the foods that stop me from breathing as me being allergic to them. Hopefully the test for dogs is more accurate.


Jan, that is an interesting idea - to have a blood test to detect an allergy. Although it is too bad that it doesn't sound like it is so accurate. Lincoln's brother developed an allergy to poultry at 2 years of age (he and Lincoln are now 2 1/2 yrs old). His owner and I go to the same vet, so she will probably advise me to go to a simple homecooked diet of rabbit & sweet potato or venison & sweet potato for 6 weeks to see if that helps. I guess they figure that's easier and less expensive than the blood test?

No one in my family has allergies (I know we are really lucky) so this is all new to me. I am really hoping it is not food related because it sounds like a long and difficult path to finding out what's going on...


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## Jane

Missy, I think I saw on another thread you mentioned that you don't give your dogs kibbles with flax in them. Did one or both of them have an allergy to flaxseed and how did it manifest itself?

I used to feed Lincoln Missing Link which has flax in it, then stopped when I did the homecooking. I did recently start back with the Missing Link, so now I'm wondering if flax is causing a problem for him....hmmm....


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## Thumper

JASHavanese said:


> Have you been on the elimination diet Kara? I lost 6 pounds in a week on it. My doctor really gave me heck for that, but gee, I didn't like most of the stuff on it so there wasn't much to eat. uke: One more bite of free range chicken would have had me out in the backyard scratching the dirt and looking for a rooster.


Oh yes! I've been on one, and I'm still on a VERY restricted diet. I don't like chicken, developed an aversion to it during a pregnancy and it still makes me nauseous to cook it! lol, I eat alot of oameal and cereal..oh, and ice cream! lol

But yes, I lost ALOT of weight, to the point my doctors were worried. I've gained some back, but it is hard when I am so limited. LOL @ the rooster comment!!!!!!!! ound: I needed that.

Kara


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## Missy

Jane, first-- natures variety raw medallions have both a rabbit and a venison--- My boys love the rabbit (I cook it though in the microwave and throw in some rice or pasta sometimes) They both did this weird dance of avoidance on the venison though. Both have some Flax in it but it is down very low and it is 95% meat so there can't be much.

It was Jasper who was very itchy, I suspected flax by doing comparisons of kibbles he would eat and kibbles he wouldn't --but then when Cash came he was eating Purina pro plan puppy-- so for a long while I was feeding them both that and Jasper became so much less itchy. But he got terrible eye stains from the pro plan so I did an exhaustive search for kibble without flax-- and found these that premium brand kibbles that do not have it.

EVO
Innova adult (puppy has it) 
California Naturals Lamb puppy 
Back to Basics pork and B2B chicken
Solid Gold barking at the moon

and I'm not sure but I think the Natures Variety Venison formula does not have flax but check to be sure.

I did read on the Bravo Raw Diet site- that flax can cause itchy skin. so my suspicions are not totally made up. I also can not eat flax without getting a rash. (I do think I project my own issues sometimes on my dogs though) 

I actually had Jasper tested for foods (flax was not on the panel) he was not allergic to anything!!! I didn't do the environmental tests, because what can you do about it? So my tests for him were only $200. Only. LOL


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## Missy

Good luck Jane--I know how frustrating it can be. I bet the Hav-a-tini is not so cute anymore to either you or Lincoln. I hope you can figure it out soon. Has your vet mentioned a cortisone injection? I know someone who's dog got into poison ivy and that is what finally cleared it up. Give Linc a scratch behind the ears for me!!! And give Scout a belly rub for being a good brother.


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## Janet Zee

I happened upon this item as I was browsing, maybe it's worth a try.

http://www.showdogstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=150


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## Jane

Missy, 

Thanks so much for sharing all the info on the foods, flaxseed, and allergy testing. Wow, you'd hope the testing would be more conclusive and accurate, especially for $200! Sigh. 

My hubby and I had a long discussion about how at some point, we're going to have to just de-cone Lincoln and let him scratch himself. Hopefully, he'll be healed enough to where he won't leave himself a bloody mess. Today, I bought some Allercain (thanks, Kimberly!) which has lidocaine (a numbing agent), an antiseptic, and bittern (to deter them from chewing themselves) and I am using that now on his sores. So far, it seems to help some. He'd scratch, and I'd apply the Allercain. He'd then scratch a different spot later, and we'd repeat the cycle. He doesn't scratch all the time, which is good. 

It sounds weird, but it was hard for me to take him out of the cone because it was protecting him. It kind of reminded me of when we brought my first son home from the hospital after he was in the NICU for 17 days - I was terrified to have him come home without being hooked up to all those monitors that at least could tell us if something was wrong. 

Anyway, he has been cone free since the afternoon, with some scratching and yes, scabbing. I hope he heals completely soon. 

Scout has been a naughty one  He will nibble at the edges of Lincoln's cone!


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## JASHavanese

Thumperlove said:


> Oh yes! I've been on one, and I'm still on a VERY restricted diet. I don't like chicken, developed an aversion to it during a pregnancy and it still makes me nauseous to cook it! lol, I eat alot of oameal and cereal..oh, and ice cream! lol
> 
> But yes, I lost ALOT of weight, to the point my doctors were worried. I've gained some back, but it is hard when I am so limited. LOL @ the rooster comment!!!!!!!! ound: I needed that.
> 
> Kara


I'm on one too Kara so I really feel for you. It's great fun when someone takes you out to dinner at a restaurant that you know has food you can't have and you sit there and stare at the menu wondering what the heck you can eat. Then the rooster doesn't look half bad.


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## JASHavanese

Jane said:


> Missy,
> 
> Thanks so much for sharing all the info on the foods, flaxseed, and allergy testing. Wow, you'd hope the testing would be more conclusive and accurate, especially for $200! Sigh.


I talked to someone today who did allergy testing on their dog and they said it cost them 600. The test did show what the dog was allergic to though so I'd say it's money well spent. Now if the results came back and they didn't know, I'd be wizzed!


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## Jane

Argh, okay, I'm thinking it is time to consider the food allergy possibilty. I think he may have developed a sensitivity to chicken.

I was reading in Pitcairn's book that beef is another common allergen. Does anyone know about Lamb? 

Before I try the harder to find things like rabbit and venison, I'm hoping that I'll have some luck with an easier to obtain meat.....

Lincoln's brother's owner told me her vet told her to do homecooking for 6 weeks (sweet potato or regular potato + rabbit or venison). She did and after 3 weeks, his allergy symptoms subsided. The scary thing is, he was on a chicken based kibble, then she switched to lamb, and they think that is what triggered the allergy to both chicken and lamb. I switched Lincoln a few months ago from a chicken based kibble to homecooking (with turkey, beef, and fish) and now have gone back to the chicken based kibble and fresh chicken added in. That is about when all his allergy symptoms started. Does anyone know anything about how allergies are triggered? 
I'm wondering if switching foods somehow started all of this. I am kicking myself. I should have just stuck with his original food!


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## Paige

JASHavanese said:


> I'm on one too Kara so I really feel for you. It's great fun when someone takes you out to dinner at a restaurant that you know has food you can't have and you sit there and stare at the menu wondering what the heck you can eat. Then the rooster doesn't look half bad.


Me and my family are always saying we are growing feathers, because we eat so much chicken. ound:

Me you and Kara need to open our on restaurant. I have pretty much given up on eating out.


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## mckennasedona

Hi Jane,

When I switched the girls to the Grandad's raw, I started with chicken (remember the 26 lbs of the stuff!!). Subsequently McKenna started scratching like crazy. I switched to the beef and the scratching stopped. 

The man who owns and runs Grandad's said that sometimes when you switch their diet to raw (or in your case, homecooked) it can cause their bodies to start shedding toxins like crazy which will cause the itching and scratching. I don't know if that's what was happening with McKenna or not since I switched to beef. I've been adding chicken back into her diet by mixing it with beef and so far, no scratching. He says to just let it run its course but that it could take awhile. That's been difficult for me since I don't want to see my dogs suffer for even a minute let alone the time it takes to de-tox from commercial dog food.

Dogs can indeed be allergic to lamb. My mom's dog was allergy tested and the Nutro's Lamb and rice was his main allergen in addition to chicken. She switched him to a rabbbit & potato kibble in his final years and bingo, no more allergies.

Susan


----------



## mintchip

mckennasedona said:


> Hi Jane,
> 
> When I switched the girls to the Grandad's raw, I started with chicken (remember the 26 lbs of the stuff!!). Subsequently McKenna started scratching like crazy. I switched to the beef and the scratching stopped.
> 
> The man who owns and runs Grandad's said that sometimes when you switch their diet to raw (or in your case, homecooked) it can cause their bodies to start shedding toxins like crazy which will cause the itching and scratching. I don't know if that's what was happening with McKenna or not since I switched to beef. I've been adding chicken back into her diet by mixing it with beef and so far, no scratching. He says to just let it run its course but that it could take awhile. That's been difficult for me since I don't want to see my dogs suffer for even a minute let alone the time it takes to de-tox from commercial dog food.
> 
> Dogs can indeed be allergic to lamb. My mom's dog was allergy tested and the Nutro's Lamb and rice was his main allergen in addition to chicken. She switched him to a *rabbbit & potato kibble *in his final years and bingo, no more allergies.
> 
> Susan


Where do you find that?
Sally


----------



## mckennasedona

Sally,
She got it through her vet. I believe its made by Royal Canin.


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## MaddiesMom

Jane- I'm thinking Maddie may have developed a sensitivity to chicken also. She started to get looser stools on foods that had chicken in them. I have her on lamb and rice kibble now, and everything is normal. However, there's no guarantee that lamb can be tolerated by a dog either. I read that if you give your dog a variety of proteins (lamb, chicken, turkey, venison, fish, etc.) just for the heck of it, then if they develop an intolerance, then you don't have many proteins left that they haven't been exposed to for an elimination diet trial. Chicken is the third most allergic food for dogs. They can eat it all their lives and then develop an intolerance. I'm going to try to introduce it back into Maddie's diet in a few weeks and watch the response. If she starts itching and having loose stools, then I know its the chicken. If she has no problem, then its probably just the brand of dog food she was eating. Watch out for wheat (in doggie biscuits), beef, dairy, etc. also. 

I hope you are able to get to the bottom of Lincoln's problem. It must be frustrating for both you and Lincoln.


----------



## Jane

Janet Zee said:


> I happened upon this item as I was browsing, maybe it's worth a try.
> 
> http://www.showdogstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=150


Thanks, Janet! I have heard about colloidal silver before....I just wasn't sure what it was used for! I have taken Lincoln off the steroids since I don't want to use them longterm. The vet tech told me to put Neosporin on his sores for now.


----------



## Jane

mckennasedona said:


> Sally,
> She got it through her vet. I believe its made by Royal Canin.


Lincoln's brother's owner also gets her rabbit & potato kibble through the vet. I think it used to be made by IVD which was bought (?) by Royal Canin. Something like that...


----------



## Jane

MaddiesMom said:


> Jane- I'm thinking Maddie may have developed a sensitivity to chicken also. She started to get looser stools on foods that had chicken in them. I have her on lamb and rice kibble now, and everything is normal. However, there's no guarantee that lamb can be tolerated by a dog either. I read that if you give your dog a variety of proteins (lamb, chicken, turkey, venison, fish, etc.) just for the heck of it, then if they develop an intolerance, then you don't have many proteins left that they haven't been exposed to for an elimination diet trial. Chicken is the third most allergic food for dogs. They can eat it all their lives and then develop an intolerance. I'm going to try to introduce it back into Maddie's diet in a few weeks and watch the response. If she starts itching and having loose stools, then I know its the chicken. If she has no problem, then its probably just the brand of dog food she was eating. Watch out for wheat (in doggie biscuits), beef, dairy, etc. also.
> 
> I hope you are able to get to the bottom of Lincoln's problem. It must be frustrating for both you and Lincoln.


Jeanne,

Thanks for the information. I had no idea chicken was a leading cause of allergies. I was going to try lamb, but then I remember he used to eat these lamb treats awhile ago. Also, his brother is allergic to lamb, so maybe I shouldn't lose time and just go for the rabbit/venison. I'm trying to figure out where I can buy this stuff near me...

I'm going to try a sweet potato/potato + venison or rabbit homecooked diet for 6 weeks. No grains. No flax. We'll see what happens....my friend told me it took 3 weeks for her to see the allergy symptoms subside in Lincoln's brother.

Argh. :frusty:


----------



## Julie

oh gosh-----Jane:hug::kiss:big hugs to you and Lincoln!:kiss::hug:
This must be very difficult for you.I hope you are able to find the solution quickly....we are thinking about you all.......


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## Jane

mckennasedona said:


> Hi Jane,
> 
> When I switched the girls to the Grandad's raw, I started with chicken (remember the 26 lbs of the stuff!!). Subsequently McKenna started scratching like crazy. I switched to the beef and the scratching stopped.
> 
> Susan


Hi Susan,

I didn't know you went through that with McKenna. What about Sedona (since she is Lincoln's full sister)? Does she have any allergies? Wow, I feel so thankful to be able to trace Lincoln's siblings, thanks to the age of the online community! :biggrin1:

When I switched to homecooking, I didn't notice any skin problems. There were loose stools here and there which eventually drove me to return to kibble. It was after I went back to the chicken based kibble that the problems started, which also coincided with my using the new shampoo.

Hard to decipher all this stuff, especially with my failing memory!!
I should keep a food log for Lincoln, really.


----------



## Thumper

Jane said:


> Argh, okay, I'm thinking it is time to consider the food allergy possibilty. I think he may have developed a sensitivity to chicken.
> 
> I was reading in Pitcairn's book that beef is another common allergen. Does anyone know about Lamb?
> 
> Before I try the harder to find things like rabbit and venison, I'm hoping that I'll have some luck with an easier to obtain meat.....
> 
> Lincoln's brother's owner told me her vet told her to do homecooking for 6 weeks (sweet potato or regular potato + rabbit or venison). She did and after 3 weeks, his allergy symptoms subsided. The scary thing is, he was on a chicken based kibble, then she switched to lamb, and they think that is what triggered the allergy to both chicken and lamb. I switched Lincoln a few months ago from a chicken based kibble to homecooking (with turkey, beef, and fish) and now have gone back to the chicken based kibble and fresh chicken added in. That is about when all his allergy symptoms started. Does anyone know anything about how allergies are triggered?
> I'm wondering if switching foods somehow started all of this. I am kicking myself. I should have just stuck with his original food!


I feed Gucci lamb often, it is her absolute FAVORITE meat. I just buy thin cuts and throw them in a skillet and cook to about M-M/well. If Lincoln has tolerated it well before, than maybe that's a good way to "detox" him. Lamb and Rice for a week and evaluate then, if he's getting better but not healed...do it for another week. And then I would consider switching to a lamb based kibble. From there, you can rule out if it is the Chicken OR another ingredient in kibble.

Don't feel bad about it and beat yourself up for trying a new food! You were only trying to meet his nutritional needs. Period. It is NOT your fault if indeed, it turns out to be a food allergy.

Allergies are SO mysterious. I developed allergies in my 20's and now 30's to foods that I *USED* to be able to eat! :frusty: But now, I can't! I wish there was an explanation..

But sometimes, your body can just decide to interpret a food as an "invader" for no good reason, and turn on it.

Kara


----------



## mckennasedona

> What about Sedona (since she is Lincoln's full sister)?


No, no allergy issues with Sedona at all (knock on wood). McKenna had no problems at all with the regular Natural Balance version which was based on chicken but the Grandads is nothing but chicken.

Susan


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## Havtahava

> Allergies are SO mysterious. I developed allergies in my 20's and now 30's to foods that I USED to be able to eat! But now, I can't! I wish there was an explanation..


 I see that so much! I love, love, love being in my yard and doing gardening in my flower & vegetable beds, but I've started to develop some allergies to my skin with many of them. (Unfortunately, I know exactly how mine started - my reef aquarium, but that's another story.) It stinks and I have to take a lot of extra precautions that I have never had to do in my whole life, but it is much better than red blistery arms that itch for two days. I've been fortunate to never have to deal with allergies in my life or my family's life until recently. My grandmother (almost 90) just developed a strawberry allergy. Talk about rotten!


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## MaddiesMom

Jane said:


> Jeanne, Also, his brother is allergic to lamb, so maybe I shouldn't lose time and just go for the rabbit/venison. I'm trying to figure out where I can buy this stuff near me...QUOTE]
> 
> If you're willing to go for canned, Wellness has duck and sweet potato, turkey and sweet potato, venison and sweet potato, and whitefish and sweet potato. California Natural has a good kibble of herring and sweet potato. Natural Balance has kibble of duck and potato, Pinnacle has a duck and potato kibble, Flint River Ranch has trout and sweet potato, etc. Of course, most of these are difficult to find at Petco (except for Natural Balance). You'd have to look at the higher end dog food stores.


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## Jane

I bought two fresh rabbits today which set me back $35. Apparently they just came in and it was my lucky day! 

The butcher was urging me to at least use the broth from cooking the rabbits for something for myself - he even cut off the best part of the rabbit meat and wrapped it separately, urging me to eat it myself. I think he just had a hard time seeing that wonderful fresh rabbit go to a...dog.... He did tell me there is another lady who always comes into buy Filet Mignon for her dog (and ground beef for her hubby!)

Lincoln REALLY enjoyed his fresh high-quality rabbit and sweet potato dinner tonight. Poor Scout though....all he got was kibble. I felt so guilty that I made some little meatballs for him for tomorrow that I will add to his food.

Boy, it is really hard to have him on such a restricted diet. His favorite daily chewies have chicken in them. He gets a dried chicken breast after grooming as a special treat. Even the crunchy treat I give him after brushing his teeth (to work the toothpaste up towards the gum line) has chicken in it. Yikes.

I'm hopeful that eventually we'll figure out what Lincoln can eat without getting the itchies, I can buy tons of it, and we can move on with our lives!


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## Laurief

$35 for two rabbits??!?!?!?!? Gosh, you could come here and catch them for free if you want. We have so many!!!! If it works for you, and he needs rabbits regularly you should try to find a farm that might be willing to trap rabbits for you.


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## Missy

Oh Jane, Lincoln is one lucky puppy!!! did you ask the butcher to grind the bones too? That would be great for Lincoln. Did you roast one and freeze the other? How long will the two rabbits last you? I think scout deserves some of the broth!!! I sent you a pm with all sorts of links to things I found. let me know if you have other questions. I'm getting ready to buy a dehydrator. make our own rabbit jerky LOL


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## Jane

Missy said:


> How long will the two rabbits last you? I think scout deserves some of the broth!!! I sent you a pm with all sorts of links to things I found. let me know if you have other questions. I'm getting ready to buy a dehydrator. make our own rabbit jerky LOL


Thanks so much for your pm!! I actually think I *will* make my own rabbit jerky. Lincoln just loves jerky so much. The two rabbits should last 7-10 days. I cooked some and froze the rest. I also picked up rabbit/potato kibble because with my schedule lately, I can't keep up the homecooking for 6 weeks right now. I'll use the fresh rabbit and sweet potatoes to add to his rabbit kibble.

That is an interesting idea, Laurie :biggrin1: Susan also suggested to me that I could buy two rabbits and "make" my own....but I told her that my hubby would put me out on the street if I started breeding rabbits to feed Lincoln!


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## Missy

Jane said:


> That is an interesting idea, Laurie :biggrin1: Susan also suggested to me that I could buy two rabbits and "make" my own....but I told her that my hubby would put me out on the street if I started breeding rabbits to feed Lincoln!


Jane, some how I can't see you cooking the rabbits you breed anyway... you would just all of a sudden have a LOT MORE pets!!!


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## Cheryl

Wellness makes a jerky treat made from Venison and Salmon--and no wheat or other grains. My dogs love them!!! I buy them at Pet Food Express--do you have one near you? They are a tad pricey--$9.99 for 6 oz but the bag has lasted over 1 month with 2 dogs in training.


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## Jane

Cheryl said:


> Wellness makes a jerky treat made from Venison and Salmon--and no wheat or other grains. My dogs love them!!! I buy them at Pet Food Express--do you have one near you? They are a tad pricey--$9.99 for 6 oz but the bag has lasted over 1 month with 2 dogs in training.


Hi Cheryl!

I was just researching other non-chicken treats and came across the Wellness ones you mentioned! I was wondering if they are good, so your post was really timely. Yes, I have a Pet Food Express less than a mile away from me - I will check there tomorrow. Thanks!!


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## Havtahava

Jane said:


> Susan also suggested to me that I could buy two rabbits and "make" my own....but I told her that my hubby would put me out on the street if I started breeding rabbits to feed Lincoln!


 Not to mention that I hardly think you could handle doing the deed and cleaning the rabbit. I can't even imagine you in that position. No way.


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## marjrc

Holy smokes, Kimberly! Where did you get THAT image??? lol

Jane, I'm sorry to find out about poor Lincoln's skin infection. I haven't read through the entire thread, but I see here you are making some headway. I hope things work out well for Lincoln. He's such a beautiful boy and it's so sad hearing about any pet suffering because we feel so helpless sometimes. 

Good luck with the rabbit stuff! Would fish be o.k. to give him? Orijen is a food made here in Canada that has no wheat and the fish version has no chicken so might be an option. I think the Orijen kibble is probably as close to raw nutrition-wise than anything. Have you considered a raw diet?


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## Jane

OMG! Kimberly, where in the world did you find that awful graphic??? LOL!

That's it. I cannot do it.


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## Jane

We think Lincoln's skin is healing, slowly. He has two major eruptions now that are progressing (scabbing, healing) - one on his left cheek and one under his chin near his throat. I scan daily for new ones.

Sadly, he has scratched so much that clumps of hair have come out. His hair is thin under his eyes and especially around the throat. I hope it will grow back soon. He is generally a "hair farm" so that gives me hope...

But, we are no longer using the cone. And we had to retrain him to use the dog door. I still use the Allercain on those two bad spots and it does seem to deter him a bit from scratching so much.

I guess I'll keep him on the rabbit diet until his skin heals and then I'll figure out what to do. I have two goals: to find a food he can eat safely, and to also find out what he was/is allergic to. I would like to not have to decimate the rabbit population any longer than necessary....


----------



## Jane

marjrc said:


> Good luck with the rabbit stuff! Would fish be o.k. to give him? Orijen is a food made here in Canada that has no wheat and the fish version has no chicken so might be an option. I think the Orijen kibble is probably as close to raw nutrition-wise than anything. Have you considered a raw diet?


Hi Marj and thanks for your note  When I was considering more "normal" protein sources like lamb, fish, etc. people advised me to try something that I know he has not been exposed to because he could be allergic to more than one type of protein. I decided not to do raw awhile back just because I have kids in the house and we are all kissing our dogs a lot. I know someone who feeds raw exclusively and her dogs are all gorgeous and healthy and have wonderful coats, so I can definitely see the benefits.


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## Laurief

Jane, I have to say that this sounds so familiar to my cats reactions. Are the sores only on the facial area? If so, her problem was simply that she was allergic to her bowlsl. I would switch the bowls for a few weeks at a time & see if that helps. she would stick her head in to eat & her worst sores were on her chin and above her eyes- and she started to lose her hair around there too. Just a suggestion - hope you are able to solve this soon!


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## Havtahava

Oh wow, Laurie. If that is all that is bothering Lincoln, that would be such a wonderful and easy solution.


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## Missy

Yes Jane, I have hear plastic and stainless both can cause reactions. the safest is ceramic. I went out and bought human dishes for J & C because I was concerned with lead paint when I saw the "made in china" on the pet bowls (of course we know I am a little crazy) -- FYI- the cereal bowls that come with the fiesta ware are nice and wide and low---so for those who have Hav's that prefer plates this is a good option. I got mine at Macy's


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## Lynn

Hi Jane,
One thing I have learned in dealing with allergies with my daughter and my Lab, was to keep a journal with the dates of when you started this and make notes of reations. If you start a couple new things at once it can be hard to figure out. Notes will help

With Casper; he started itching at 9 months, and I added EVO wet puppuy food to his diet at this time. He loved it, but in 2 months he was pretty itchy. My Lab was had a allergy to chicken so I took Casper off all chicken, which is hard because he loves chicken this and chicken that.

I also started giving him salmon oil for dry skin about the same time. 

It takes a while to see improvement, but he doesn't itch any more. (only a little when he gets dirty.  )

Casper is eating now Merrick's New Zealand Summer -with Lamb sausage Links and he loves it! and natural balance duck and potatoe wet and dry. 

I really hope Lincoln's skin condition improves.


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## Missy

Isn't it funny and sad that so many of these great dogs that are so good for us humans with allergies have allergies of their own.


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## mckennasedona

> Susan also suggested to me that I could buy two rabbits and "make" my own....but I told her that my hubby would put me out on the street if I started breeding rabbits to feed Lincoln!


I said this in jest, though!  If I had to kill and skin my own dinner, I'd be a vegetarian. Not to mention we had a dear, sweet, pet bunny named Jessie who lived to be 10 years old.

Susan


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## Jane

Missy said:


> Yes Jane, I have hear plastic and stainless both can cause reactions. the safest is ceramic. I went out and bought human dishes for J & C because I was concerned with lead paint when I saw the "made in china" on the pet bowls (of course we know I am a little crazy) -- FYI- the cereal bowls that come with the fiesta ware are nice and wide and low---so for those who have Hav's that prefer plates this is a good option. I got mine at Macy's


Hi Laurie and Missy:

Wow, I have never heard of this! No way! :jaw: 
I used to have a ceramic bowl for Lincoln but after the second one broke, I went back to stainless. But I made the switch before May this year and he didn't have symptoms until August. Still....maybe I'll feed him out of one of our human ceramic cereal bowls. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Jane

Lynn said:


> Hi Jane,
> One thing I have learned in dealing with allergies with my daughter and my Lab, was to keep a journal with the dates of when you started this and make notes of reations. If you start a couple new things at once it can be hard to figure out. Notes will help
> 
> It takes a while to see improvement, but he doesn't itch any more. (only a little when he gets dirty.  )


Hi Lynn!

I am really bad at keeping notes - but I've been trying to add notes on the computer to my calendar (to keep track of foods, meds, etc.)

How long did it take for you to see an improvement with Casper? Days, weeks, or months?


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## Laurief

Jane, I hate to say it but you might want to feed him out of a paper plate, or bowl for a while and see if that might be the problem. Unfortunately the allergies like that take a while to go away and come, so when you try new things you have to do it for a while. Good luck, hope it is as simple as that!!


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## irnfit

I stopped using the metal bowls years ago. I found that after a while they pitted and stained, even with washing them all the time. My dogs didin't have a problem with plastic. 

But, I am going to have to switch now from plastic to ceramic, because my two have been making a game of playing with their bowls. They are all chewed up.


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## mintchip

Jane said:


> Hi Laurie and Missy:
> 
> Wow, I have never heard of this! No way! :jaw:
> I used to have a ceramic bowl for Lincoln but after the second one broke, I went back to stainless. But I made the switch before May this year and he didn't have symptoms until August. Still....maybe I'll feed him out of one of our human ceramic cereal bowls. Thanks for the tip!


Once I took Oliver's plastic bowl away the tear stains started to go away!
I didn't change anything else.
Sally


----------



## Lynn

Jane said:


> How long did it take for you to see an improvement with Casper? Days, weeks, or months?


Hi Jane,

Honestly it took me a couple of months, because I had I hard time getting ALL the chicken out of his diet. I started with the wet food I had just started giving him, then the kibble, then lots of his favorite treats.

He LOVES chicken, sooo it was hard, but I have replaced it with Lamb, and duck, and he likes lamb and duck.

I got this idea with the allergy to chicken, when I went to the Cascade Havanese club picnic and one of the ladies there said her dogs itched when feed chicken.

But if you go totally, NO CHICKEN - maybe a couple of weeks, ask your vet. But it is really not unusual for dogs to have a allergy to chicken. They also told me to stay away from turkey, to much like chicken.

Casper was feed chicken kibble since the breeder, so maybe that had something to do with the allergy.


----------



## Missy

Jane said:


> Hi Laurie and Missy:
> 
> Wow, I have never heard of this! No way! :jaw:
> I used to have a ceramic bowl for Lincoln but after the second one broke, I went back to stainless. But I made the switch before May this year and he didn't have symptoms until August. Still....maybe I'll feed him out of one of our human ceramic cereal bowls. Thanks for the tip!


WOW Jane, wouldn't that be amazing if that was it????? keeping my fingers crossed that something is working!!!


----------



## elregalohavanese

*skin infection*

One of our females we found out is allergic to chicken ( and she loves it)...but we switched her to pro plan lamb and oatmeal and she is doing great. NO breakouts, no itching...We get it at petsmart. It is a little high but worth it and she loves it.


----------



## mintchip

Hope Lincoln is doing better!


----------



## Melissa Miller

This happened to Stogies brother, Cheyenne. He had scabs all over his face. They found out it was a skin allergy. She has taken him off chicken and it cleared up. She is feeding beef raw mix. If you want her email, let me know she has done a ton of research on food. I just switched my guys and they are loving the new stuff.


----------



## Jane

Melissa Miller said:


> This happened to Stogies brother, Cheyenne. He had scabs all over his face. They found out it was a skin allergy. She has taken him off chicken and it cleared up. She is feeding beef raw mix. If you want her email, let me know she has done a ton of research on food. I just switched my guys and they are loving the new stuff.


Hi Melissa,

It is reassuring to hear that something similar has happened to someone else and that they are past it! All I know for *sure* is that Lincoln is allergic to something and he has scabs on his face. :frusty:

I would love Cheyenne's owner's email if you think she won't mind - thanks so much!


----------



## Jane

Lynn said:


> Honestly it took me a couple of months, because I had I hard time getting ALL the chicken out of his diet.
> 
> He LOVES chicken, sooo it was hard, but I have replaced it with Lamb, and duck, and he likes lamb and duck.


Hi Lynn:

I am also realizing how many things have chicken in them....his dingos, his chicken jerky, etc. It is devastating to him to cut all of these out. I want to try to stick as close as I can to just the rabbit and sweet potato. He does still get a chewie that is pork-based, and instead of the dried chicken breasts after grooming, I found some dried salmon strips (small and crunchy, but fishy smelling - and made in Canada!) as a substitute.

I did switch bowls too. I was going to try lamb (instead of rabbit) but his brother is allergic to both poultry and lamb, so just in case there is a hereditary link, I decided to go with the rabbit.


----------



## Jane

Well, it is too early to tell if Lincoln is improving. He still has some lingering scabs on his chin/throat and left cheek. His skin is more red on his face/chin/throat as if it is irritated.

I bathed him today and am really hoping I don't see another outbreak of sores in the next day (which has happened after the last 3 baths). I only used the shampoo that I use on his body - no special stuff for the head. And I rinsed super-well. We'll see what happens.

At least we are cone-free. Lincoln's quality of life (and ours!) improved 1000% without the cone :biggrin1:


----------



## Havtahava

Elimination diets are really tough Jane! I started to do it one time and didn't realize how often I substitute treats without thinking. I will give one or two of the dogs Satin Balls (a homemade treat for weight gain) once in a while, and inadvertently give a small bit to all of them to keep it "even", and they ares LOADED with wheat (wheat germ and Total cereal), so if the dog has a wheat allergy, you've just set them back once again. It takes a lot of dedication to eliminate all the proteins and starches to try to find the problem. Thankfully, you are gifted in that area.

I hope you find the solution - and soon too!


----------



## Jane

*Excerpt from Food Allergy article*

Yikes, I found this tonight on the Internet. It could take 8-12 weeks to figure out what is going on....at least....

(from http://www.aztecanimalclinic.com/allergy.htm)
Food Allergy
Dogs are not likely to be born with food allergies. More commonly, they develop allergies to food products they have eaten for a long time. The allergy most frequently develops in response to the protein component of the food; for example, beef, pork, chicken, or turkey. Food allergy may produce any of the clinical signs previously discussed, including itching, digestive disorders, and respiratory distress. We recommend testing for food allergy when the clinical signs have been present for several months, when the dog has a poor response to steroids, or when a very young dog itches without other apparent causes of allergy. Testing is done with a special hypoallergenic diet. *Because it takes at least 8 weeks for all other food products to get out of the system, the dog must eat the special diet exclusively for 8-12 weeks (or more).* If positive response occurs, you will be instructed on how to proceed. If the diet is not fed exclusively, it will not be a meaningful test. We cannot overemphasize this. If any types of table food, treats or vitamins are given, these must be discontinued during the testing period. There may be problems with certain types of chewable heartworm preventative, as well. Your veterinarian will discuss this with you.


----------



## mintchip

Jane said:


> Yikes, I found this tonight on the Internet. It could take 8-12 weeks to figure out what is going on....at least....
> 
> (from http://www.aztecanimalclinic.com/allergy.htm)
> Food Allergy
> *Dogs are not likely to be born with food allergies. More commonly, they develop allergies to food products they have eaten for a long time.* The allergy most frequently develops in response to the protein component of the food; for example, beef, pork, chicken, or turkey. Food allergy may produce any of the clinical signs previously discussed, including itching, digestive disorders, and respiratory distress. We recommend testing for food allergy when the clinical signs have been present for several months, when the dog has a poor response to steroids, or when a very young dog itches without other apparent causes of allergy. Testing is done with a special hypoallergenic diet. *Because it takes at least 8 weeks for all other food products to get out of the system, the dog must eat the special diet exclusively for 8-12 weeks (or more).* If positive response occurs, you will be instructed on how to proceed. If the diet is not fed exclusively, it will not be a meaningful test. We cannot overemphasize this. If any types of table food, treats or vitamins are given, these must be discontinued during the testing period. There may be problems with certain types of chewable heartworm preventative, as well. Your veterinarian will discuss this with you.


WOW. I didn't know that about changing foods. It took long enough to find one he likes. How often do you change their food?
Get well soon Lincoln
Sally


----------



## Thumper

Jane said:


> Yikes, I found this tonight on the Internet. It could take 8-12 weeks to figure out what is going on....at least....
> 
> (from http://www.aztecanimalclinic.com/allergy.htm)
> Food Allergy
> Dogs are not likely to be born with food allergies. More commonly, they develop allergies to food products they have eaten for a long time. The allergy most frequently develops in response to the protein component of the food; for example, beef, pork, chicken, or turkey. Food allergy may produce any of the clinical signs previously discussed, including itching, digestive disorders, and respiratory distress. We recommend testing for food allergy when the clinical signs have been present for several months, when the dog has a poor response to steroids, or when a very young dog itches without other apparent causes of allergy. Testing is done with a special hypoallergenic diet. *Because it takes at least 8 weeks for all other food products to get out of the system, the dog must eat the special diet exclusively for 8-12 weeks (or more).* If positive response occurs, you will be instructed on how to proceed. If the diet is not fed exclusively, it will not be a meaningful test. We cannot overemphasize this. If any types of table food, treats or vitamins are given, these must be discontinued during the testing period. There may be problems with certain types of chewable heartworm preventative, as well. Your veterinarian will discuss this with you.


Yes, double yikes!

I think you will see an improvement before the full 8-12 weeks, though. If it is working, then the scabs will start to vanish and he will stop itching so much. I bet you'll know if you are on the right track in about 3-4 weeks. I really HOPE that you find the solution quick!

With many things in life, it is figuring out to fix the problem that poses the hardest challenge! But once you have the solution in hand, it'll be a cakewalk.

Rabbit is pretty expenive, but it is a great choice and very good for them, low in fat. I'd like to find some around here. Funny story about the butcher being upset that his rabbit was not being eaten by humans! lol, he must not know the love that transpires between a human and their Havanese!  Poor fellow! lol

Kara


----------



## Poornima

*Re: pork based chews*



Jane said:


> Hi Lynn:
> 
> He does still get a chewie that is pork-based, and instead of the dried chicken breasts after grooming, I found some dried salmon strips (small and crunchy, but fishy smelling - and made in Canada!) as a substitute.
> .


Jane,
If Lincoln is able to tolerate pork based chews and treats, Trader Joe's carries Canine Cattle Comapany's "Pig in a Blanket". It is porkskin wrapped in beefhide. It is 100% natural and made from USDA inspected human grade beef and pork. The cowhide and porkskin don't smell. Here is the website for the Performance Pet Products, Canine Cattle Company is now a part of it.

http://performancepet.net/home.php

Wish Lincoln a speedy and healthy recovery!


----------



## Jane

*More interesting info on Food Allergies in Dogs*

I came across this link tonight: http://www.labbies.com/foodreactions.htm

It is really interesting - it talks about the most common food allergens for dogs and even has a flow chart at the end showing the proper sequential steps to take when doing an food elimination trial (to identify what your dog might be allergic to), and the difference between food allergies and environmental allergies.

Lincoln update: no change. He is still having new scabs erupt on his face. It isn't getting worse or better. Same.


----------



## Laurief

Jane, I am so sorry to hear that there is no change in Lincoln yet!! What exactly is the vet saying? Is he on steroids?


----------



## Lynn

Hi Jane,

Stay the course with the food elimination, do not get discouraged. If I remember...after a short time (7-10 days) the itching did get less and I could see we were on the right course.

I am thinking maybe the food allergies cause the itching and sores, but the bath irritates them? Maybe try to bath less, so they can heal (dry) longer. 
I know that is hard with these dogs.

I never did find a treat that could replace the chicken treats, they were really what he liked.

We are in a AKC good citizen dog class and they encourage using treats, so during class he won't take any treats.....just spits them out. We had chicken for dinner a couple of nights this week so I gave him chicken treats, like 2-3 times this week and he was really itching last night.:frusty: 

With Casper he starts itching at night, alot. So I will have to try some of Kara's rabbit ideas or something for his treats. I have spent $$$ trying to look for a treat he likes. He does still like cheese.

I hope Lincoln gets better soon, sending lots of :hug:


----------



## Julie

I'm sorry to read about Lincoln.I had hoped he would be better already and it would end up being something simple.I'm so sorry.:hug:Hang in there Jane.Are you still using the tylan?Could that be it?I thought when reading the last page of posts---how about if you feel the need to bathe him,just using water only..no shampoo/conditioner.I have no idea about any of this,so just disregard my thoughts if it is "old hat"...I don't know about any of this.Just wishing for the best...


----------



## Lina

I'm sorry that Lincoln is still not better, Jane. I'm sure this must be incredibly frustrating for you. I don't have any better advice than maybe sticking with the elimination diet you are currently using... hopefully you will see results sooner rather than later. :hug: Good luck!


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## mckennasedona

Jane,

I know it takes time and extreme dedication to do an elimination diet but isn't there an allergy test they can do that will help? My mom's dog turned out to be allergic to chicken and lamb and they found that out through testing. I know she didn't do an elimination diet. I know it's more costly but it might save some time. Just trying to save you some frustration.... poor Lincoln. 

Susan


----------



## Havtahava

That's a good point, Susan. Allergy tests do save a lot of time, but they are pretty expensive. 

Jane (and anyone in the Bay Area), there is a really good group of veterinary specialists in San Leandro, and they also have an allergy specialist there. I called a few years ago and I asked about the allergy testing, and I think an initial exam alogn


----------



## Poornima

Hi Jane,
I am so sorry that Lincoln still suffering. I do hope that you are able to find the allergen at the earliest. Wish you and Lincoln all the best.


----------



## Jane

Thanks for your well wishes everyone! At least Lincoln is mostly cone-free for now! Lynn, Lincoln also scratches a lot at night, like Casper. He will be under our bed, scratching, and make the whole bed vibrate! Crazy dog!

I have replaced his dried chicken treats with sweet potato chips that I make at home. They have that satisfying crunch that he loves!:biggrin1: 

I am just sticking with the elimination diet. And doing research when I have time. It will take at least 8 weeks on the diet before I should ditch it, based on what I'm reading. I am trying not to bathe him very often right now - maybe once every 3 weeks. This last bath did not cause a bad outbreak like the previous baths probably because I am no longer using those "bad" shampoos anymore. So, that also makes me think it is primarily a food allergy, made worse by irritating shampoo. 

The few things I've read about allergy testing (and input from others on the forum) tell me that it is expensive and not very accurate in many cases. Apparently, many vets believe it is more effective to do the elimination diet instead if they suspect a food (not environmental) allergy. After several weeks of this, if he is not better, I'll schlep him back to the vet and see what to do next....

I discontinued the Tylan powder on 9/1 when we started Lincoln on antibiotics for the inital skin infection - I didn't want him to be on 2 antibiotics and didn't want them to interact in some weird way. Luckily, his muzzle staining has not returned! But if he keeps scratching like this though, he will have less and less muzzle hair left to be stained


----------



## lfung5

Poor little Lincoln. I can't believe how long this has lasted. It must be so frustrating. I remember when my guys were itching for 1 week, I was going nuts. I can't imagine what you are going through. Hang in there!


----------



## Missy

Jane, poor Lincoln is right! Has your vet tried Prednisone yet? I know we hate to put them (or ourselves) on it. But Lincoln has been miserable for so long, maybe a short term dose or an injection could just snap him out of it long enough for the wounds to heal. it can really be a miracle drug when used responsibly . 

poor Jane too. that under the bed scratching is a reel sleep wrecker.


----------



## Jane

Ugh, I spoke too soon.

Lincoln scratched open a big scab on his chin and was bleeding so much I had to put him back in the cone for now. I also dabbed some of the steroid med on his wound (I haven't used it in awhile, but I was more desperate today). 

I think I need to take him in to the vet again and at least see if there is something that will give him some relief while we are doing the food elimination diet, like Missy suggested. 

This is so frustrating and adds an additional layer of stress to our family life that is no good....

I just love my fur babies and want to find out what is going on, once and for all! Sigh.


----------



## mintchip

Get well soon Lincoln!!


----------



## Lynn

Jane,

Sorry to hear Lincoln has to go back to the cone. I can relate to stress you talk about....allergies are hard. I had a daughter with allergies and a Lab and now Casper. It was all very stressful trying to take care of them. Try the vet again, hopefully he can help.

Just that little chicken I feed Casper this week has him itching and biting his legs like crazy. What was I thinking, when I feed him that????:frusty: 

It is sad because he loves chicken.


----------



## Sissygirl

Jane, so sorry to hear that Lincoln is still suffering with this. Does he do well with Benadryl or an antihistimine of any kind?

Sissy was allergic to the groomers shampoo and their finishing spray was making her itch - I used benadryl to get her through the itching. 

Poor baby - I feel so sorry for him.

Sending good wishes his way!


----------



## Paige

Poor Lincoln. Maybe the vet can give him a shot to clear things up, aleast for awhile. 

If you do find that it is wheat, becareful, when I was looking for shampoo and conditioner, I found most had wheat protein in them.


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## Jane

Thanks, guys. Hubby is thinking maybe it is sweet potato (?) since I started giving him lots of those around mid-August when everything started. I didn't think so, but just to be safe, I'm now making him regular potato crunchy snacks (no peel). He likes those too! 

Lincoln has a great disposition and is a pretty happy guy through all of this cone/no cone/drugs/scratching nonsense....thank goodness for that wonderful Hav personality!

I have an appt to see the vet on Wed morning (first available). For now, we'll just continue with the rabbit/potato diet. Unfortunately, the antihistimine really didn't help at all, which I'm reading is not uncommon....sigh....And Reece, thanks for the tip on wheat protein! I'd have never thought of that!! Yikes!

Lynn, I totally sympathize - it is so hard to deny these furry guys treats that we KNOW they love. It kills me not to give him all the yummy things I used to! Especially when he looks at me with those big EYES....


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## MaddiesMom

Jane- I'm sorry to hear Lincoln is still having the scratchies. Sweet potato usually isn't a high allergy food, but I'm sure there can be allergies to anything, so you're wise to stop that too just in case. Is Lincoln eating anything else other than rabbit? Any supplements, chewies, etc? I guess if you go through the elimination diet and can't pinpoint anything, then it might be an inhalant allergy? If so, let's hope its seasonal. If you're stuck for treats for Lincoln, I've heard of people taking canned dog food, cutting it up, and baking it for treats. I know there are several brands of canned rabbit dog food such as Nature's Variety, EVO, and Wysong. Wysong, I think, is 100% rabbit, but it might not bake up so well (yuck!). In any case, I hope your boy is better soon. Hopefully your vet will have some further suggestions.


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## Cosmosmom

I found wheat and corn to be the culprits in diet ..
Read the labels as sometimes it is hidden - .
As to Shampoos Ii think some of those baby and tearless shampoos are not as gentle as they want you to think . read the labels .. if you can find a copy of Kevin Trudeaus books it is really scary as to what manufacturers put in products these elements really do not need to be there.. 
Some Havanese have unique sensitivities . Cosmo is very sensitive and I have to be careful .
Usually sweet potato is not usually the cause but it may be something else . 
It may well be dietary but it also may be topical so that is why you have to start to evaluate your dogs's enviornment as well not just his food and shampoos.. 
Cleaning products what you wash his blankets and pads in . How you clean your floors ? do you lose a lot of bleach ..


----------



## Jane

Argh, Lincoln now has an eye infection in the right eye....green goop.

There was a lucky cancellation for a Sunday appt tomorrow at the vet - so I will take him in to have his eye seen. They didn't think I should wait until my Wed appt just in case he scratched his cornea, etc.

You'd better believe I'll be asking that vet (not my regular one) to look at his skin scabs too :biggrin1:


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## MaddiesMom

Jane- I guess when it rains, it pours, huh? Poor Lincoln. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that your vet visit tomorrow gives you some solutions. I know you must be frustrated.


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## Janet Zee

*Jane*

Could this be what Lincoln has:

http://www.rt516vet.com/caseofthemonth.html


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## Cosmosmom

That certainly looks nasty .. ? Did you have hair loss or just lesions .. It is interesting as I tthought you were on antibiotics but perhaps it was the wrong one .. 
So happy to hear that you are able to see the vet and not have to wait until next week 
.. Keep us posted .. 
No one likes to hear that our little ones have health issues ..


----------



## Jane

Janet Zee said:


> Could this be what Lincoln has:
> 
> http://www.rt516vet.com/caseofthemonth.html


Hi Janet:

He has some hair loss from scratching, but his scabs are small and look more like human chicken pox so I think it is something different. They did take a culture from one of his scabs and looked at it under the microscope - I don't know if would have shown mites (like in the link you included).

I guess there are lots of types of skin conditions our poor babies can get....


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## Poornima

Hi Jane,
I am so sorry to hear about the latest set back for Lincoln. I hope that the vet is able to find a solution for you tomorrow. We are sending tons of healthy thoughts to Lincoln! Get Well Soon Lincoln!

Take care.


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## Jane

*Could this be it??*

Ohmygosh, I think I found a likely candidate in all my internet searching (finally) for what Lincoln may have....Sarcoptic Mites! And a huge thanks to Janet for the article you mentioned on Demodex Mites - that got me thinking that I should investigate other types of mites, etc.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1589&articleid=764

It is often misdiagnosed as allergic dermatitis or an inhalant skin allergy, and doing a skin scraping to detect them usually misses them 80% of the time. The description of the severe itching, pus filled bumps and scabs sounds like what he has.

I hope this is it. It can be treated with high doses of Ivermectin or other meds......

The anticipation is killing me.....


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## Thumper

Jane,

Yikes! Print that up and take it to your vet and indeed ask about it. I know you can buy the benzoil peroxide soap at Walgreens. Benzoil peroxide is often sold to treat human acne too.

I don't know, though....I think that mite problem sounds like something that you'll have to continually fight because they are so susceptible to getting reinfected with them. AND you would probably need to treat or "bomb" your house a few times. How do you destroy the ones that are in the house?

That sounds like an utter nightmare  I'm almost hoping its NOT mites and just a simple food allergy. Heck, that makes the food allergy sound simple.

hugs,
Kara


----------



## Janet Zee

*Jane*

I am so happy to have helped in solving the mystery of Lincolns skin condition. If mites are the problem, I'm sure the Vet can treat his condition and he will be well on his way to recovery before you know it. Poor baby. Let's keep our fingers crossed that you have finally found the cause.

Hugs,


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## Lina

Jane, I really hope that mites are the problem and that way you can finally relax and not worry about any allergy problems! Keep us updated on what the vet says!


----------



## Missy

Jane, I am glad you are going to the vet today!!! keep us all posted.


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## Jane

Thanks guys - I am really hoping this is IT....he is not responding at ALL to the elimination diet and I really would have expected to see some kind of change by now. I am reading as much as I can about the sarcoptic mite thing so I can ask good questions this afternoon when I go the vet. And thanks Kara--I printed out all my stuff too...although I'll hide it at first, since I heard docs HATE it when people bring stacks of Internet material to them....)

Apparently, Revolution (2 doses spaced apart) has been shown to be an approved and effective treatment for this type of mite. At least something exists. In the old days, they'd shave the dog and you'd dip them once a week for several weeks.....not my furry baby Lincoln! :jaw:


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## Jane

Thumperlove said:


> AND you would probably need to treat or "bomb" your house a few times. How do you destroy the ones that are in the house?


Kara,

If it is mites, Scout will also have to be treated and all the bedding too....I will have to ask how to do that properly so they don't get a reinfestation. Yep, it'll be a pain.

Still, at this point, I hope it is the mites :biggrin1:


----------



## Missy

what time is your appointment Jane?


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## Jane

*Update on Lincoln's vet appt*

I just got back from the vet. I thought it would go differently than it did.

The vet I saw, Dr. M. thinks it is more likely Lincoln has an environmental or food allergy because the sarcoptic mites (scabies) is less common. He said usually dogs develop allergies between ages 3-5 (Lincoln is 2 1/2). He did a skin scraping which showed nothing (again).

The plan is to continue the elimination diet for the full 8 weeks before abandoning the possibility of a food allergy.

He agreed to give Lincoln the meds for scabies, just in case he does have that. That is two injections of Ivermectin spaced 2 weeks apart. He said in a week or so, the itching should decrease if that is the cause. Poor Lincs squealed at the injection and that made me feel just awful. 

He suggested Prednisone to stop the itching, but I decided to give it 3 more weeks to see if the Ivermectin and elimination diet produce any results. So, in 3 weeks, if he is not getting any better, I'll head back for the Prednisone.

I keep second guessing my decision though. Maybe I should have done the Prednisone today. Argh. :frusty:

I will follow up with Dr. M - he seems more knowledgeable than my regular vet about this and I like how he systematically laid out a plan of attack for things we can try. Oh, I got antibiotic eye drops for the eye infection (the least of my worries!)

Thanks too all of you for listening, or reading, this incredibly long thread. My hubby said he cannot believe this thread about Lincoln has gotten this long. I am so thankful for all of you and your support on this forum!


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## Lina

Jane, I am sorry that Lincoln skin infection is still unresolved, but I am glad that your vet seems on top of it and is giving you lots of options of things to try out! I hope that Lincoln will start to feel better soon. Kubrick sends him a :kiss: and I send him a :hug:.


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## mckennasedona

Jane, 

Thanks for the update. I hope the shots and the diet will help resolve whatever it is. It's just maddening when you don't know what is bothering him. I wonder if there is any safe topical solution for the itching. As for internal meds, what about a small dose of Benadryl?

Susan


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## Sissygirl

Jane,

Sure hope Lincoln starts feeling better soon. We are all thinking about him and sending good wishes your way. I know how worried you must feel.


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## Missy

Jane, sometimes it is good to just have a vet work it out with you one step at a time (or a doctor for that matter) sounds like Dr. M has a good plan-- I hope something starts to work. 

hugs to lincs.


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## Cosmosmom

I think if your doggie is not too miserable itching biting etc the best way to go is to continue with the allergy theory and elimination diet . It does take time but it does work .
Prednisone will make him feel better - it is a pallative Solution but it does not get to the underlying problem and he can become dependent on it .. just like humans get acustomed to it and it is difficult to wean them of of it .. 
Glad to hear his eyes are ok .
Thanks so much for keeping us in the picture ..


----------



## Jane

Thanks for all your encouragement! I love that emoticon, Marie - how sweet!

Lincoln was on benadryl and a doggie antihistimine and it didn't help much - Dr. M. nodded his head knowingly when I told him that - apparently many times the antihistimines don't do much  

Dr. M said they only use the Prednisone for short periods of time, like Missy mentioned earlier. If the dog turns out to have seasonal or intermittent allergies, they will use it at those times, and then taper the dose off to minimize the side effects. If the allergy turns out to be all year round, then they instead go to allergy shots (weekly at first, then decreasing to monthly) to manage it. But both are basically "for their lifetime" treatments. Ugh.

Well, like you guys said, one day/step at a time.

The cone doesn't really seem to slow Lincoln down at least. In fact his accuracy in getting through tight spaces has improved


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## MaddiesMom

Jane- I'm glad you have a definite plan now from Dr. M. I think holding off on the prednisone is a good idea since if it was the sarcoptic mites, you'd never know as the prednisone would make him appear better. If he's still scratching like mad after the injections for the mites, then you can always get the prednisone then and know that its not the mites. If you're doing the elmination diet, just make sure Lincoln isn't eating any other supplement or chewie. I've heard even a rawhide can upset the elimination diet. It must be so frustrating not to give him the treats he loves. Maybe try to think up new ways of serving rabbit? If you have a dehydrator, maybe try rabbit jerky for a treat? Well, hopefully in a few weeks, you'll have some answers for your boy. Hugs to you and Lincoln. :hug:


----------



## Jane

MaddiesMom said:


> Maybe try to think up new ways of serving rabbit? If you have a dehydrator, maybe try rabbit jerky for a treat? Well, hopefully in a few weeks, you'll have some answers for your boy. Hugs to you and Lincoln. :hug:


Thanks, Jeanne for your encouragement. I still worry that I didn't make the right decision. Lincoln is getting dried sweet potato and now dried potato crunchy snacks that I make in my microwave at home but no rawhide (which he loves). At least he has those...


----------



## mintchip

Jane said:


> Thanks, Jeanne for your encouragement. I still worry that I didn't make the right decision. Lincoln is getting dried sweet potato and now dried potato crunchy snacks that I make in my microwave at home but no rawhide (which he loves). At least he has those...


and a wonderful family!!!


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## Jane

*No improvement.*

Just a quick update...

Now Scout has two crusty bumps under HIS chin too. He has been scratching a lot for 2-3 weeks, but no bumps until now. Argh!

I called the vet and she said that IF Lincoln seems to be improving by Sat, then she would also give Scout the ivermectin shot in case he caught scabies from Lincoln.

But Lincoln doesn't seem to be improving at all after the ivermectin shot last Sunday, so perhaps he doesn't have scabies. He even got two new areas of eruptions on his face and they are very itchy - poor baby. It seems that an "allergy" is more likely at this point. I have another appointment with my regular vet on Wed morning. I have decided that if Lincoln is still suffering with no end in sight by Wed, I will ask for symptom relief (antihistimines, Prednisone, etc.) - whatever it will take to help him stop scratching, heal quickly and get out of this darned cone.

My breeder consulted her vet who suggested the possbility of low thyroid (hypothyroidism) which can manifest as itchy skin and scabs in some dogs. My vet said she can do a blood test to check for that on Wed too.

I'll continue the rabbit/potato diet too.....for a full 12 weeks...


----------



## whitBmom

Oh Jane, I am slowly trying to catch up on all the threads I have missed and OMGoodness, I am so sorry to hear Lincoln is suffering this way. Allergies, are just so tricky because they can't really communicate what makes them feel bad.  My thoughts are with you and I am sending good vibes and wishing Lincoln a speedy recovery. :grouphug:


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## mckennasedona

Good grief. This has to be so frustrating for you, Jane. Now Scout has bumps? Is he on the rabbit potato diet too? I wish I had some magic advice. I do know that prednisone can help relieve symptoms. We used it periodically for our previous dog, Maggie who had year round allergies. They would start with a dose for a few days and step it down and then stop it altogether. 

Sending hugs to all of you!!

Susan


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## Lina

Jane, I am so sorry that Scout seems to be having the same problems too. maybe you should put him on the rabbit and potato diet too?

I hope they both feel better soon! :hug:


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## Julie

:grouphug:Jane:grouphug:

I'm so sorry Lincoln is not improving and now poor Scout too!That is just awful news.:sorry:It must be just miserable.....:hug: I sure hope the vet can figure this out quickly and get those boys some relief and healing.

Hypothyroid?Goodness that's what I have!


----------



## Poornima

Oh Jane, I am so sorry that Scout has the scabs too. Hope the vets find a quick solution to end the furbabies' misery.


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## MaddiesMom

Wow, Jane, how awful for you and your boys. Doesn't it seem odd that now Scout has it too? I mean what are the odds that two different dogs would be allergic to the same things? This makes me wonder if it *is* some kind of contagious skin disorder. You know, maybe a trip to a dog dermatologist could get to the bottom of this. I don't know exactly where you live in the Bay Area, but I think Kimberly mentioned there was one at Bay Area Veterinary Specialists in San Leandro. I know you must be so frustrated since this has gone on so long. I hope you find some answers soon.


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## Laurief

Jane, I agree with Jeanne, I would think that if they both have it now, it might be something in your house. Possibly a cleaning solution or "something" I would see a specialist at this point! Poor babies - give them kisses from us here in NJ!!


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## dschles

Your poor pups! I am so sorry to hear it has spread to Scout. Any itchy humans in the house? I do believe that scabies can effect humans too.


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## JASHavanese

Jane said:


> Just a quick update...
> 
> Now Scout has two crusty bumps under HIS chin too. He has been scratching a lot for 2-3 weeks, but no bumps until now. Argh!
> ...


I'm such a forum ditz that I didn't know this was still going on. Jane, I actually think this is good news that Scout is also itching. It leads me to think that it's mites or scabies and is easily treated!
What is the likelihood of BOTH dogs getting an allergy at the same time?


----------



## Missy

Oh Jane, I am so sorry. Has Lincoln shown any relief from the shot?


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## Lynn

Jane,
Do the bumps on Scott look like Lincoln's spots?


----------



## whitBmom

That is a good point Jan, it might very well be. Oh, for the sake of your lovely pups I hope the issue is resolved soon... Hugs to you.


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## Julie

Get better soon Lincoln and Scout!Mommy needs a break!:becky::hug:


----------



## Jane

Thanks, guys!

I asked my vet the same question, Jan, and my vet DID seem to think that is is VERY possible that they are allergic to the same thing, especially if it is environmental. 

Lincoln has not responded at ALL to the treatment for scabies/mites, so if another week goes by and still no response, I am likely to agree with her that they have some sort of allergy. Anyway, I have another appt on Wed am to really hash all this out...

Apparently 25% of dogs responds by the 3rd week to an elimination diet (to detect food allergy), and 80% respond by the 12th week. So, my vet urged me to keep him on it for the full 12 weeks.

I need more patience.....


----------



## JASHavanese

Jane said:


> Thanks, guys!
> 
> I asked my vet the same question, Jan, and my vet DID seem to think that is is VERY possible that they are allergic to the same thing, especially if it is environmental.
> 
> Lincoln has not responded at ALL to the treatment for scabies/mites, so if another week goes by and still no response, I am likely to agree with her that they have some sort of allergy. Anyway, I have another appt on Wed am to really hash all this out...
> 
> Apparently 25% of dogs responds by the 3rd week to an elimination diet (to detect food allergy), and 80% respond by the 12th week. So, my vet urged me to keep him on it for the full 12 weeks.
> 
> I need more patience.....


Are they littermates?


----------



## Jane

JASHavanese said:


> Are they littermates?


Hi Jan,

They are not littermates, but they have the same mother. And Lincoln's father is Scout's grandfather....does that make sense? :biggrin1:


----------



## Laurief

Yikes Jane, that sure is frustrating!! Hopefully this will be solved soon!


----------



## Julie

Jane;5496
I need more patience.....[/QUOTE said:


> I think you have ALOT of patience!You are doing your best...and just try to stay positive.I think you'll get this resolved soon...:thumb:
> 
> :clap2::cheer2: Jane :cheer2::clap2:


----------



## Missy

Jane My heart goes out to all three of you. I know how frustrated you must be.


----------



## Jane

Thanks for the great emoticons, Julie! 

Laurie, I think you are onto something....perhaps it is something in my house they are allergic to. Believe me, I keep thinking of things....I've changed laundry detergent (to Cheer, thanks for the tip, Missy!). I am also wondering if my neighbor is using some new chemicals, etc. lately perhaps that they are reacting to (he's always working on his cars, welding, making stained glass, etc.), or my gardeners....

I want to see what my vet will say on Wed and try to go a little further there before I pursue seeing a specialist. 

Some days I have more peace about the situation than others. :biggrin1:


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## good buddy

Jane said:


> Some days I have more peace about the situation than others. :biggrin1:


It sure does sound like it could be something environmental. It's so frustrating! On days when you're restless take some time to make a list. Write down everything you can think of that they could be exposed to. To the list add your laundry detergent, any additives, fabric sheets, what do you use to scrub the floors, shampoo your carpet. Are you using Febreeze, or Air Fresheners (even the wall plug in kind)? Are the boys ever in the bathroom when you spray hair spray, or use other products? What cleaning products are you using, do you have scented candles? Ask your lawn guy what are the products he's using too.

It seems odd that their faces are the areas most affected. You could try getting down on their level and seeing if there is anything they are able to get to that could be a culprit. Try and think too, if you were doing anything different when Lincoln first started with this (AS IF you haven't already....sorry you can hit me now! )

Hang in there with your food testing. It won't go on forever... There has to be a cause and with Scout having a problem now too it should be easier to figure out.


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## Laurief

I agree Christy, you kinda have to sit and think of everything. I also agree that if it is on their face, it would make sense that it is something that they are eating or sticking their faces in to. Do you have strub service from your lawn care company. Do the dogs stick their noses under the couch or a piece of furniture? There has got to be something that is getting to them. Have you changed water bowls, be sure there is not something growing under a rim or something. How about any new plants, indoor or outdoor? Just a few ideas, I am really thinking about you Jane, this has got to be hard.
Laurie


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## Jane

*Update on Lincoln*

I took Lincoln to see my regular vet this morning and I feel really good about where we are at now.

She put him on a trial of Prednisone to hopefully give him relief from the itching and scabbing. If he responds well to it, then it is most likely an environmental allergy. If not, it is most likely a food allergy. We are of course continuing with the food trial. We both agreed that since he did not respond to the first ivermectin shot (for scabies), he did not need a second shot and have ruled out scabies as a cause. She thought the possibility of hypothyroidism is low and usually the dogs have itchy skin all over, not in the patterns she is seeing on Lincoln's body (which match an allergy pattern). He also has another secondary skin infection so he is on antibiotics again.

In a week, she'll call me to see if the Prednisone is working and we'll proceed from there.

My husband is really suspecting he might be allergic to sweet potato, of all things! We started giving him my homemade sweet potato snacks around the time of his first eruptions and only recently removed them from his diet completely. But then, after the ivermectin shot (and we really thought it wasn't food related), we started giving him sweet potato again and he had a HUGE skin flare up. So it is possible....

So, no more sweet potatoes. If that is it, his skin symptoms should subside eventually. Oh, and none for Scout either. He is doing well - no more bumps.

Thanks for all your encouragement and support through this! I hope it will be over soon...


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## Missy

Jane, great news!!!! I really hope the prednisone kicks in. Absolutely stop the sweet potatoes. (maybe he's not allergic to chicken after all) I am keeping fingers crossed. this has gone on for a really long time.


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## SMARTY

Glad to hear things are headed in a positive direction for a change. I have a reaction to raw tomatoes and nothing else, so I think you could do the same with sweet potatoes. 

Good luck with the Prednisone.


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## Julie

:hug:Hug to you Jane for sticking in there!I nominate you Best Hav Mom:first:I hope this is the case of the sweet potato and not Lincoln's favorite chicken!I'll keep my fingers crossed this is resolved soon and the new meds and being "sweet potato free" works!:hug:


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## Laurief

Wow Jane, that would be fantastic if it is the potatoes!! We will keep our fingers crossed. One piece of advise, if they offer steriods, give them to the pups. I learned from my own food allergies, that you go into a highly allergic "state " - so sometimes just eliminating the food doesnt work right away, you need to give your body the time (with help from meds) to get out of that "state" before you are going to see permanent results.


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## Havtahava

Jane, you're a trooper. I'm so sorry this is still going on for the boys, but glad to see that it looks like you are on the road to improvement.


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## Jane

Laurief said:


> Wow Jane, that would be fantastic if it is the potatoes!! We will keep our fingers crossed. One piece of advise, if they offer steriods, give them to the pups. I learned from my own food allergies, that you go into a highly allergic "state " - so sometimes just eliminating the food doesnt work right away, you need to give your body the time (with help from meds) to get out of that "state" before you are going to see permanent results.


Yes, Laurie! That is what my vet said too. The prednisone is a corticosteroid and hopefully will help Lincoln heal. The food elimination diet takes AWHILE to kick in, apparently. I am so impatient!

We have dreams around here of being a cone-free household!

Thanks for your nomination, Julie - you are Lincoln's sweet supporter! But I think that #1 Mom award goes to Leslie (in memory of Shadow) in my book


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## MaddiesMom

Oh Jane....sounds like you're getting to the bottom of this! I know we'll all be so happy for you when you know what is bothering Lincoln.

I had done kind of an elimination diet with Maddie due to itching and loose stools. I figured her allergies to be from either chicken, wheat, dairy, or eggs. I switched her to a lamb and rice based kibble (Solid Gold), stopped all treats except for sweet potatoes, eliminated dairy and eggs, and she did great. Then I tried adding one thing back at a time. First was dairy. No problem. Then I added egg. No problem. Then I added wheat. I gave her 2 treat biscuits and a small bit of whole wheat bread. Wowee!! She started itching like crazy the next day, had loose stools with mucous and a tiny bit of blood. I pulled her off the wheat, and immediately, the stools cleared up, and the scratching is almost gone. Wheat it is!! I haven't added the chicken back in, as I want her to recover completely from the wheat reaction. Her vet said when you add things back in, the allergic reaction from the offender is way worse than the first time. But she said you have to do it to find out for sure. I hope you have the same success with Lincoln and have "scratch-free" days from then on! We're pulling for you!


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## Jane

MaddiesMom said:


> Her vet said when you add things back in, the allergic reaction from the offender is way worse than the first time.


Thanks, Jeanne! I am so glad you were able to figure out what Maddie was allergic to.

I do suspect sweet potato because he had a horrible flare up after we gave him some recently - and that would make sense given what you said about a subsequent exposure being worse than the first time.

I do worry that he is allergic to multiple things. But I guess I will just add back one thing at a time like you did. How long did you wait before deciding it was okay to add back another thing?


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## MaddiesMom

Jane said:


> Thanks, Jeanne! I am so glad you were able to figure out what Maddie was allergic to.
> 
> I do suspect sweet potato because he had a horrible flare up after we gave him some recently - and that would make sense given what you said about a subsequent exposure being worse than the first time.
> 
> I do worry that he is allergic to multiple things. But I guess I will just add back one thing at a time like you did. How long did you wait before deciding it was okay to add back another thing?


Jane- Maddie's symptoms went away within a week to 10 days after starting the new dog food and eliminating what I thought were the possible allergy foods (although I've heard it can take 6 weeks or longer). Her scratching took longer than the stools, but was much less by 2 weeks into the regimen. I kept her symptom free for about a month to 6 weeks before trying to add each one back in. I waited at least a week to 10 days of no symptoms between each addition before trying another food back in. The wheat reacted nearly immediately (within 24 hours). I think she has more of a food "intolerance" than allergy. That's why it affects her stools also. I had never given her dog biscuits before receiving some from another Hav owner at her first birthday party. Then the scratching started. Then the stools became loose. I'm so glad to know its the wheat. I'll wait at least a couple of weeks before adding the last thing (chicken) back in. I hope the answer for Lincoln is just as simple!


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## Lina

Jane, it sounds like your vet is trying to do everything possible and the environmental allergy sounds like a promising lead! It could also be the sweet potatoes, so please keep us updated! I hope that Lincoln will get better very very soon and I'm glad to hear that Scout is getting better himself! :hug:


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## Leslie

Jane said:


> Yes, Laurie! That is what my vet said too. The prednisone is a corticosteroid and hopefully will help Lincoln heal. The food elimination diet takes AWHILE to kick in, apparently. I am so impatient!
> 
> We have dreams around here of being a cone-free household!
> 
> Thanks for your nomination, Julie - you are Lincoln's sweet supporter! *But I think that #1 Mom award goes to Leslie (in memory of Shadow) in my book *


Thank you, Jane. What a wonderful thing to say. :hug: But, you know, that's just what we mommies do for our babies. What you and poor Lincoln are dealing with, though not life threatening, is still _very_ difficult. You are being the best mommy to him. I'd certainly be honored to have you in the #1 spot with me. :first: :hug:


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## Jane

havashadow said:


> Thank you, Jane. What a wonderful thing to say. :hug: But, you know, that's just what we mommies do for our babies. What you and poor Lincoln are dealing with, though not life threatening, is still _very_ difficult. You are being the best mommy to him. I'd certainly be honored to have you in the #1 spot with me. :first: :hug:


Thanks, Leslie. :hug: I met a woman in the waiting area today whose 11-year old King Charles Cavalier was recently diagnosed with a fatal heart problem and she was in tears telling the tech about it. She enjoyed saying hello to Lincoln and asked about the Havanese breed and loved feeling his coat. Meeting her, I was reminded this morning that what you said is true - what Lincoln is going through is difficult but not life-threatening, for which I am really thankful.


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## Havtahava

That's a good perspective, Jane. Granted, you must be somewhat frustrated from all of this, and it is also inconvenient to try to get to the root of all of it, but ... 

I hope this journey is over very soon!


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## irnfit

Nice to hear that Lincoln is on the road to recovery.


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## Poornima

Hi Jane,
It is great that Lincoln and Scout are both doing better. It must be a relief to find that it is a food allergy, most likely culprit being the sweet potatoes, and not the scabies. Wish Lincoln a very speedy recovery and cone free romping.


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## MaddiesMom

Jane said:


> I met a woman in the waiting area today whose 11-year old King Charles Cavalier was recently diagnosed with a fatal heart problem and she was in tears telling the tech about it. She enjoyed saying hello to Lincoln and asked about the Havanese breed and loved feeling his coat. Meeting her, I was reminded this morning that what you said is true - what Lincoln is going through is difficult but not life-threatening, for which I am really thankful.


That is so sad. My neighbor who is a vet told me that King Charles Cavaliers have severe heart valve problems. She said half of them have it by 5 years of age and nearly all by 10 years old. She said many of her clients have lost theirs at young ages. What an awful thing for such a sweet breed!


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## KristinFusco

Hi Jane!

I am so sorry I didn't respond earlier, but Lito and I are sending Lincoln big well-wishes! I am glad to hear you may have a potential allergy culprit, I hope this all gets resolved soon!

:kiss: from Lito to his 1/2 brother Lincoln


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## Paige

Julie said:


> :hug:Hug to you Jane for sticking in there!I nominate you Best Hav Mom:first:I hope this is the case of the sweet potato and not Lincoln's favorite chicken!I'll keep my fingers crossed this is resolved soon and the new meds and being "sweet potato free" works!:hug:


:first: :first: Julie is right you deserve a reward...I hope that's all it is, that would be a easy fix, after all you and Lincoln have been through.


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## Jane

KristinFusco said:


> Hi Jane!
> 
> I am so sorry I didn't respond earlier, but Lito and I are sending Lincoln big well-wishes! I am glad to hear you may have a potential allergy culprit, I hope this all gets resolved soon!
> 
> :kiss: from Lito to his 1/2 brother Lincoln


Thanks, Kristin! We will miss you and Lito this weekend at the Lil Pawz reunion. Lito was at our last gathering a year ago and I remember my hubby enjoyed holding him (he was in full show coat too)!


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## Jane

reece said:


> :first: :first: Julie is right you deserve a reward...I hope that's all it is, that would be a easy fix, after all you and Lincoln have been through.


Thanks, Reece! These emoticons are fun.

I was looking for one of a guy in a cone.....but they don't have that one....

Anyway, no reward necessary here....just an affliction-free doggie!!


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## Jane

MaddiesMom said:


> That is so sad. My neighbor who is a vet told me that King Charles Cavaliers have severe heart valve problems. She said half of them have it by 5 years of age and nearly all by 10 years old. She said many of her clients have lost theirs at young ages. What an awful thing for such a sweet breed!


That makes sense - she did say something about a "mitral valve" problem and that she knew at 11 yrs. she'd "already beaten the odds". I didn't understand what she meant until I read your post. 5 years seems so young.


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## Cheryl

We owned a Cairn Terrier prior to our havs that had severe environmental allergies. He scratched, lost huge patches of hair, and caused skin infections. We searched high and low over his 16 years to minimize his situation. We found that his "season" was about 4-5 months. We controlled most of the early and late itching by bathing every 3 days with selsun blue. He usually required a short prescription of oral prednisone. (In his severe days--he would have monthly shots.) My vet was willing to treat the possible hypothyroid with supplement thyroid pills to see if it worked (it did not.) Apparently thyroid blood tests take a couple months for the results.

Elimination dietary restrictions did not help. 

As I mentioned above, he lived to the ripe old age of 16 years and this was his nuisance problem. If we failed with the bath and prednisone routine, he occasionally needed the antibiotics to clear up an infection. For the most part, we were able to deal with the routine.


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## Jane

*Cone free!*

HOORAY! LINCOLN IS OUT OF THE CONE TODAY!!!

The Prednisone is working - he looked less agitated and itchy so we took the cone off last night. He tried to scratch once, but was easily deterred when we told him not to. He licked both his front legs, but didn't chew and bite at the spots on his leg.

So far, so good!

He seems uber-mellow though....has anyone who has had their dog on Prednisone noticed this too? It's like he's got a big question mark over his head....sweet, content, with a little bit of bewilderment....


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## Havtahava

Jane said:


> It's like he's got a big question mark over his head....sweet, content, with a little bit of bewilderment....


 You mean that isn't Lincoln's usual sweet demeanor? He sure had me fooled! ound:

Yea for this victory! I hope he continues to improve so well and that it is all gone soon.


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## mintchip

Yeah!! Maybe he is just happy to see everything again!!!
 Keep up the good work Lincoln!!!!!!


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## Leslie

Oh, what a relief for you and Lincoln, Jane. I certainly hope he continues to do well. Big hugs and lickies for you both from Tori and me.


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## Missy

YEAHHHHH! Jane, I am so thrilled to read this post!!! I hope little Lincoln continues to heal. Say good by to the Hav-a-tini!!!

So if the prednisone works - your vet thinks environmental and not a food allergy? 

I am soooo happy for both you and Lincoln.


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## marjrc

You poor thing. You and the dogs, that is. Sounds like a very challenging time, but you are doing a great job of it, Jane!  It is hard to see our pets suffering because we feel so helpless. I am thrilled about the 'no cone' now! Woooooohoooooo! I'll bet Lincoln is thrilled too! lol 

Good luck and keep us posted! I'm sending positive vibes to you all.


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## irnfit

No more conehead :whoo: :whoo: I bet Lincoln is glad to have that thing off.







Hope he continues to improve.


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## Julie

:clap2:Congrats Lincoln!You are cone-free!:whoo::dance::whoo:
Give him a kiss:kiss: for me! This is SUPER-GREAT news!YAHHHHHHHHH....!


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## JASHavanese

Jane said:


> Thanks, Leslie. :hug: I met a woman in the waiting area today whose 11-year old King Charles Cavalier was recently diagnosed with a fatal heart problem and she was in tears telling the tech about it. She enjoyed saying hello to Lincoln and asked about the Havanese breed and loved feeling his coat. Meeting her, I was reminded this morning that what you said is true - what Lincoln is going through is difficult but not life-threatening, for which I am really thankful.


I looked at the King Charles because a neighbor got 2 of them to breed and on the parent club page it said that about 50% of them have this. That's so sad


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## JASHavanese

Jane said:


> HOORAY! LINCOLN IS OUT OF THE CONE TODAY!!!


We're doing a happy dance for you!!! :whoo:


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## Sissygirl

So glad to hear Lincoln is improving! Poor baby has been through enough.


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## MaddiesMom

So glad to hear Lincoln is better and no longer a cone-head! :whoo: :dance:


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## Gracie's Mom

Hi Jane!

Lincoln is so cute!! He doesn't deserve to have all of these problems. I'm sure you've been frustrated. I'm so glad he is doing better at this point. I haven't read this thread from beginning to end, so please forgive me if I don't sound completely informed.

I'm replying only to help you out. You got your dog through a great breeder I'm sure. My experience is from a dog that was Puppy Milled - so that could make a HUGE difference!! I'm sure you will have a great turn out.

I had to respond when I saw that you asked if someone has had their dog on Prednisone. I had a Yorkie that had MASSIVE skin problems for the last 5 years of life. We could never resolve. We did rounds of Prednisone and it did work, but only as long as he was on the drug. One down side to the drug is that they have to pee much more frequently. We tried everything and he didn't fair to well. Ended up completely bald on his underside and sides. He would scratch, and then push himself front legs back from one side of the room to the other. It didn't begin this way. We bathed him frequently to stop the bacteria, but he continued to stink. We were younger then and didn't have the money to spend on specialist visits, but I'm sure that may have made all the difference. If it continues I would *highly recommend *this avenue!

I don't mean to be a downer by this message. Honestly!!! Please understand. You have just been asking for help, and thought I would offer since I can totally relate. We will pray for a different turn out for sure!

Karen


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## Laurief

Oh Jane, I am so happy to hear that Lincoln is feeling better. Whatever you are doing, is working - so keep it up!! Could it be as simple as the sweet potatoes?? hmm,


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## Paige

:whoo: :whoo: I'm so happy to hear that Lincoln is feeling better, I hope it stays that way.


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## Lynn

*I am so glad to hear Lincoln is doing better* It has been so long since there has been any good news on his condition, hope you all have a good weekend


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## Lilly's mom

Here is Lilly doing her happy dance that Lincoln is doing better.:bounce: I am sending hugs to you.:hug: Cheers for continuing to heal.:cheer2:


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## Jane

Kimberly: well, he's a dazed version of his normal self :biggrin1: and I think Sally might be right - maybe he's just shocked by all that peripheral vision he has now!

Thanks for the lickies from Tori, Leslie and the dance, Jan!

Julie, I'll give Lincoln a kiss from you and I am showering him with a lot of big kisses today. Trying to kiss him before, I'd get guillotined by the edge of his cone...ow!

Missy, I'm not sure what the cause is yet, but I will talk to my vet next week....it could still be BOTH environmental and food related...He'll be on the Prednisone trial for 20 days. After that, his scabs/itchy skin might return, but depending on how fast it comes back, how bad the flare up, etc. the vet might have a better idea as to what is going on. At least he has RELIEF for now and I'm hoping his skin will completely heal.

Thanks everyone for all your encouragement and for rejoicing with us! And my cone-free baby! He is learning how to use the dog door again.


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## havaluv

:whoo: Lincoln looks so adorable in your profile pic! I just wanna kiss his cute little head! I'm so glad he is doing better!


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## good buddy

Yeah for Lincoln! CONE FREE BABEEE! I hope all his sores heal and he never ever has another problem! Rufus says the cone sucks!


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## Lina

Jane, this is GREAT news! I'm sure Lincoln feels much better too without that big cone around his head!


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## Brady's mom

Glad to hear that he his feeling better!


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## Missy

Jane, is Lincoln still cone free???? is he healing up nicely? do report.


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## Jane

Lincoln is still cone free! He is still on Prednisone. His dose drops every 5 days. I can tell he is "drugged"....his skin gets really warm and he gets this overly-calm look in his eyes. Since he is on a slightly lower dose now, when it starts to run out, he acts like himself and I can see his normal, sort of crazed demeanor start to return.

The Prednisone has allowed his skin to start healing. He doesn't scratch anymore. He is also finishing a second course of antibiotics since one of his last outbreaks got badly infected 

The only good thing that came of the whole 6-week long cone episode was that Lincoln has become more affectionate. He had to rely on us to scratch him more and he still likes to get his scratches and rubs :biggrin1:

Thanks for asking, Missy.

And, Christy, I love your new avatar of Rufus!!!


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## Thumper

That's great news!  Ahhh...I bet he did fall in love with the extra scratches and belly rubs! My girl now "expects" them at certain times of the day! lol, I hope he continues to get better and the "drugged" demeanor wears off, hopefully he'll get accustomed to the meds. He's such a cutie.

And YES, Christy, I love the new picture of Rufus! He's beautiful!

Kara


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## Laurief

Jane, I am so excited to hear about Lincoln!! It is so great that he is doing better. what horrible way to feel all the time (itchy). Now you also have a new luv bug!


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## Jane

Oh, he also drinks a ton and pees a lake.....which I guess is a normal side effect of the Prednisone. If he were still in the cone, he wouldn't be able to use the dog door and I'd have to take up full time doorman duties. 

I recently noticed he is losing weight. Sometimes it is hard to tell because of his thick coat. I think the rabbit/potato kibble is very low in fat and since he doesn't get too many treats right now on the elimination diet, he is getting skinny. I will increase his kibble...


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## mckennasedona

Jane,
He did feel a little thin on Saturday. He'll be happy to get more chow, I'll bet. Sister Sedona will be jealous! 

Susan


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## irnfit

Glad to hear that Lincoln is doing so much better. Wow, a Prednisone and low fat dog kibble diet. Now that's thought. I need to take off about 12 lbs. but Prednisone usually makes me hungry.

I agree, love the new avatar of Rufus. He is a handsome guy.


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## Julie

Glad to read Lincoln is still continuing to improve on the meds.It is sad it kind of "dopes him up",but I guess it's worth it if it gets him "over the hump" and on his way to recovery....:hug:for Lincoln:hug:


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## MaddiesMom

So great to hear that Lincoln's scratching has vastly improved! If he's on prednisone, usually their appetite is pretty darn good, so he'll probably gobble down the extra kibble. I had a German Shepherd years ago that was on prednisone for several weeks. She was so starved she actually opened the cupboard where her treats were kept and gobbled down the whole box!


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## Jane

*An update.*

Sally asked about Lincoln on another thread (thanks!) so I thought I'd post an update here.

Lincoln is almost done with the Prednisone trial. But now he is starting to lick his front paws more and will scratch now and then...

We also didn't realize how much weight he had been losing on the rabbit/potato kibble - I guess it is quite low in fat. He is normally 18 pounds and he was down to 16 and felt very bony under all that coat - we were alarmed and he is now getting "lunch" which he is quite thrilled about! He is up to 16.5-17 pounds now which is a relief.

His hair is falling out though - he is "shedding" and losing hair at 2x the normal rate. I can tell when I groom him and find small clumps around the house. My hubby thinks the Pred is accelerating the hair loss cycle. Luckily it is not noticable since he is so well-endowed, hairwise.

Sigh. It makes me sad though to see him like this - when just months ago he was so healthy looking before all this started.


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## Julie

Thanks for the update Jane.Gosh I hope you get to the bottom of this soon.You poor thing-----and Lincoln........:hug: It has got to be very difficult going through this and seeing the changes in your boy.Lincoln is well-endowed in another way too----handsome and charm!He has won over my heart!


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## JASHavanese

Jane said:


> Sally asked about Lincoln on another thread (thanks!) so I thought I'd post an update here.
> 
> Lincoln is almost done with the Prednisone trial. But now he is starting to lick his front paws more and will scratch now and then...
> 
> We also didn't realize how much weight he had been losing on the rabbit/potato kibble - I guess it is quite low in fat. He is normally 18 pounds and he was down to 16 and felt very bony under all that coat - we were alarmed and he is now getting "lunch" which he is quite thrilled about! He is up to 16.5-17 pounds now which is a relief.
> 
> His hair is falling out though - he is "shedding" and losing hair at 2x the normal rate. I can tell when I groom him and find small clumps around the house. My hubby thinks the Pred is accelerating the hair loss cycle. Luckily it is not noticable since he is so well-endowed, hairwise.
> 
> Sigh. It makes me sad though to see him like this - when just months ago he was so healthy looking before all this started.


Your poor baby  I can't remember, did they do a SA punch on him?


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## Cosmosmom

I hope thing will return to normal soon .
He has had a difficult time of it - poor little guy .. 
Give him a belly rub from Cosmo And Ahnold ...
..


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## Lina

Poor Lincoln! At least he is doing a little bit better! I hope that you will find out what is causing all of these problems very soon. :hug:


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## Missy

Oh Jane, I am so sorry about Lincoln!!! I really hope you can get to the bottom of this soon. Poor Lincoln and poor you-- this must be driving you nuts. Hugs and Belly Rubs.


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## Laurief

Jane, Did you guys go thru the elimination period yet? I feel so bad for that poor puppy. My friends dog is on predisone and he may be on it for life, for tummy issues. I hope you guys can get to the bottom of this - you must be going crazy!!
kisses from the 4 L's:kiss:


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## Lynn

Jane,

I was checking in to see how Lincoln was doing, hoping for better news...we send you lots of :kiss::hug::hug:thinking of you.

Lynn, Casper & Missy


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## Paige

Poor Lincoln.....:grouphug::kiss::hug:


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## good buddy

Jane said:


> The only good thing that came of the whole 6-week long cone episode was that Lincoln has become more affectionate. He had to rely on us to scratch him more and he still likes to get his scratches and rubs :biggrin1: And, Christy, I love your new avatar of Rufus!!!





Thumperlove said:


> And YES, Christy, I love the new picture of Rufus! He's beautiful!
> 
> Kara





irnfit said:


> I agree, love the new avatar of Rufus. He is a handsome guy.


Thanks guys! :biggrin1: Jane, At least you're getting a snugglier, more loving Lincoln out fo the deal. I just read that he's starting to chew his paws as the doseage gets lowered.  That's not good news. Hang in there. This can't go on forever. Keep up with the diet. I'm sending you all the positve energy I can to find what's going on with him! How is Scout?


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## Jane

Hi guys - thanks for all the belly rubs for Lincs! He will wonder what all that is about! :biggrin1:

The elimination diet is supposed to go on for *12 weeks*. Argh! It has only been a month....it seems like forever. I am a big food spoiler - I love to give treats. This is killing me! Also, now I have to put Scout in the xpen when he gets chewies (which he needs, otherwise he destroys the zippers on my pillows!)

Jan, what is an SA?

Scout is doing well - his bumps were few and are gone. He seems to scratch more when he gets beef, so no more of that!


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## marjrc

Oh dear. First, I was happy to hear how well Lincoln was doing, but lowering his dose is making him itchy again. I am sure it's very challenging, that 12 week elimination diet. I feel for you, Jane!  

Good luck with it all and know that we are with you even though we aren't there in person. Sending healing vibes your way.


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## Jane

Lincoln is off the Prednisone as of last night (his final dose for the trial). He is doing well - not scratching and his skin is all healed up! He is losing a lot of hair though, but I am reading that is a side effect of the Pred.

So, I was thinking, hey, we'll just continue the rabbit/potato food allergy diet for a few more weeks and then see what to do next.

But today, he ATE a chunk of my son's HOT DOG that was lying on a low table.... :suspicious: exposing himself to beef, pork, turkey, wheat (the bun), relish, ketchup and mustard. :frusty: :frusty: :frusty:

Waiting to see what will happen next....


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## mintchip

Glad to hear he is doing better! Hope he stays that way


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## Lina

I am so happy that Lincoln is doing better! That sucks about the hot dog, though... I would feel just as frustrated as you after so many weeks of doing an elimination diet with Lincoln. I hope it won't give him any side effects!


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## irnfit

I ndon't blame him - nothing like a good hot dog. :biggrin1: Glad he is doing so much better.


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## Missy

thanks for the update Jane. Lincoln deserved a little bit of hot dog after all he's been through! I hope he continues to be allright!!! hugs and bellyrubs from me and the boys.


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## Laurief

Jane, I am so happy to hear that Lincoln is so much better, the hot dog was just his treat for being so good thru all of this!! Hopefully he will be fine.


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## Havtahava

Oh, stinker! Gotta love a little Lincoln mischief though. He's so irresistable!

I'm glad to read that everything else is still going well for him.


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## Julie

Lincoln must be feeling better to snatch a dog!:biggrin1:
I hope he gets no side effects from it....hopefully he didn't get enough to ruin your diet plans.Happy he is doing so much better now Jane---that sounds super and we'll just keep our fingers crossed he continues to improve.Give my "main squeeze" a hug and belly rub!:hug:


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## Jane

Thanks Marj, Sally, Lina, Missy, Michele, Kimberly, Julie and Laurie! It has been so awesome to have your support during these past few weeks. We are so thrilled he is off the Pred. His mischevious, naughtly sparkle has returned to his eyes! :biggrin1:

I'm passing on all hugs and bellyrubs to Lincoln, hot dog thief!


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## Laurief

I just Love that he stole that hotdog!! They are just little stinkers these Havs. It probably also means that he was feeling much better. Keeping our fingers crossed that he has no affects from it !!! \


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## Missy

I'm so glad Lincoln's sparkle in his eyes are back. (that must have been horrible for you) And I'm glad Lincoln will now be known as the Lincoln: the hotdog thief instead of Lincoln: the Hav-a-tini.


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## Cosmosmom

Well My Mom used to say you have to eat a peck of dirt before you die so I am sure a hotdog is not the end of the world .
So happy to hear that he is feeling better .
I agree there is nothing like a good hot dog . My Mom made them the best way too .. 
Great news that he is on the mend ..


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## Jane

Cosmosmom said:


> Well My Mom used to say you have to eat a peck of dirt before you die so I am sure a hotdog is not the end of the world .
> So happy to hear that he is feeling better .
> I agree there is nothing like a good hot dog . My Mom made them the best way too ..
> Great news that he is on the mend ..


Oh that is funny! It reminds me of the time we found my older son chewing on his dad's leather shoe (he was maybe almost a year old). He survived!
:biggrin1:


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## Julie

My little girl used to eat cat food!Robbie loved the dog's kibble!ound:


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## marjrc

Such good news! I have to laugh. Sneaky lil' Lincoln! lol

Keeping fingers AND toes crossed things continue to go well!


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## mintchip

Jane--any problems from the hot dog?


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## good buddy

Jane, That's such good news! I'm glad he's off the Pred. and it sounds like you are (were) all set for a fresh start! What a little stinker he is! I sure hope that one little treat doesn't do any harm. It's great to hear his skin's all cleared up.


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## Jane

*Another quick update.*

The vet told me to keep Lincoln on the rabbit/potato diet for 4 more weeks (for a total of 12 weeks) just to make sure his skin stays clear, since he has only been off the Predisone for 2 weeks now.

She initially told me just to keep him on this diet forever since it is working. But I pushed back because I don't want to be locked into buying this weird expensive kibble from my vet and boiling fresh rabbits....also it would be nice (although not totally necessary) if my dogs could both eat the same kibble.

So she told me to call back in 4 weeks and we'd discuss what kinds of kibbles he can try...although, I'm dreading getting a spiel from her on trying "Science Diet"...ugh...

Doing some internet research, I may just introduce new foods (e.g., chicken, etc.) at that point, one at a time, waiting 2 weeks to see if his skin reacts.

Any tips or advice from anyone who has done this are most welcome! I am definitely going to wait the 4 weeks though - I can't deal with more skin problems at Christmastime, especially since we'll be on vacation for part of the time and leaving the dogs with my folks...

Thanks for all your encouragement and concern, everyone! I love the Forum!

P.S. No apparent problems from the hot dog... And he gobbled up my son's piece of cauliflower tonight that fell on the floor....


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## mintchip

:hug:Sending you good health and good luck vibes:hug:


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## Lina

Jane, I'm glad that Lincoln seems to be doing well on his new diet, but I can see why you would want to start reintroducing foods - I would hate having to cook fresh rabbit, yikes! Good luck with Lincoln's continued diet!


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## Thumper

I'm glad he's doing better! :kiss: I do understand you wanting to try new foods. What about lamb? That seems to be a little less of an allergen than chicken and I know there is a decent selection of lamb kibbles? My girl LOVES it, I usually cook it fresh..but its alot cheaper and less gross than the rabbit, I'm sure! LOL

I certainly know how overwhelming researching dog foods/diet can be. Good gawd, can anything be more confusing and contradicting? And there is as much mud slinging as the primary elections!ound:

Kisses to Lincoln! :kiss: Everyone needs a hotdog now and then 

Kara


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## Missy

ahhh smart son- dropping that yukky cauliflower on the floor.... (actually I like cauliflower) great news about lincoln. FYI- natures variety is coming out with a rabbit kibble- should be in stores in January. (rabbit is from china- but I bet the vet's brand is too- they just don't produce rabbit here) 

good luck Jane


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## Beamer

Thats good news that he is feeling better! Have you ever considered feeding him raw??? Maybe that will do the trick? Might be worth a try!


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## Julie

Glad to read Lincoln is doing well now,and getting back to himself.That is great news Jane!Give my main squeeze an extra belly rub tonight!:kiss:Lincoln:kiss:


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## Jane

Lincoln has been on the rabbit/potato allergy diet for over 12 weeks, so I recently started with adding foods back into his diet. I added chicken about a week ago and I think he is doing okay with it so far. I wanted to wait another week before introducing the next thing.

But today, my son left a 1/4 piece of pizza on the table and Lincoln snatched it up, ran under my bed, and had a feast. I was even in the same room and didn't see him do it - he was SO FAST and sneaky!

Now we will get to see if he is allergic to wheat, cheese, mushrooms, sausage and pepperoni.....sigh....


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## havaluv

Oh Jane,
I can so feel for you! Ollie is on his 6th week of elimination diet (duck and potato)...I feel so sorry for him. It's so frustrating when you are trying so hard to be perfect on his diet. I know you want answers and want to know EXACTLY what it is he's allergic to. 

I'm curious, did Lincoln just get a little better each day or did he seem to have set backs? I ask because I really thought Ollie was doing so much better then all of the sudden, frantic itching again! I didn't change his diet, but I did cut back on his antihistimine. I am so bummed because now I'm thinking it's only the antihistimine that was keeping the itch at bay rather than maybe we had cornered the darned food allergy as I first thought. 

Keep us posted...I'm so happy Lincoln is doing better! Yay! It gives me hope for Oliver!


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## irnfit

Lincoln is doing his own testing. :biggrin1:


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## havaluv

irnfit said:


> Lincoln is doing his own testing. :biggrin1:


ound:ound:ound:


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## Poornima

Oh Jane, I am so sorry to hear this! Hope Lincoln can tolerate his food adventure well without having a major setback. Good luck!


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## Jane

irnfit said:


> Lincoln is doing his own testing. :biggrin1:


ound: Yeah, Michele, he certainly is. I wish he'd be a little more systematic about it!! :suspicious:

Thanks, Poornima. Now Lincoln has pizza breath!


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## Jane

havaluv said:


> I'm curious, did Lincoln just get a little better each day or did he seem to have set backs?


Hi Shelly, I'm sorry to hear you are dealing with similar allergy issues with Ollie  Lincoln did not get better right away. The antihistimines we tried did not work at all, but apparently, that is not uncommon. I think he is primarily allergic to something in the environment, which is why the diet didn't seem to make a huge difference. He still had flare ups here and there. He might also be allergic to some foods, so that is why we are doing the diet too.

He went on Prednisone to break the cycle of itching and scabbing and now the weather is very different, so I'm hoping whatever he is allergic to is a seasonal (vs. year round) thing.


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## irnfit

I'd do the same thing for pizza! I just hope he is OK.


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## havaluv

Hi Jane,
Well, shoot. It's too bad Lincoln didn't just have a food allergy. It's easier to avoid certain foods than something in the air.  I've tried to keep Ollie indoors, but that doesn't seem to help much either. I still have hopes that it's food related rather than environmental for him. I sure hope you can figure out what is making Lincoln itch and don't have to struggle with this long term. How old is Lincoln? I would have never guessed how awful allergies can be for a dog (and their people). I feel for you! Please keep us posted. Feel free to PM me if you need a sympathetic ear...also if you find something useful to help! :hug:


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## Guest

Jane..

I didn't read this entire thread, but didn't you say that these sores were only on Lincoln's head? If it were an environmental allergy , you'd think he would have a reaction on other parts of his body...especially the belly where there is more exposed skin. Could he possibly be rubbing his face in something?? Maybe grass?? Carpet cleaning agents?? Laundry detergent switch lately??


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## Rita

Jane. Glad Lincoln is feeling better. Boy is he being a little stinker stealing all those goodies. ound: ound:


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## Laurief

Darn it!! When I saw the thread pop back up I was hoping you were going to say that you found out what he was allergic to and found the perfect food. 
Sneaky things these guys can be. At least it wasnt a whole piece of pizza. Maybe if you get him to drink a lot it will flush his sytems. 
Tell Lincoln we said no more snacks!!! Hope he skates thru this one with no reaction!


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## Jane

imamurph52 said:


> Jane..
> 
> I didn't read this entire thread, but didn't you say that these sores were only on Lincoln's head? If it were an environmental allergy , you'd think he would have a reaction on other parts of his body...especially the belly where there is more exposed skin. Could he possibly be rubbing his face in something?? Maybe grass?? Carpet cleaning agents?? Laundry detergent switch lately??


Thanks, Laurie and Rita! Yea, he's quite the stinker, but he's SUCH a love. Part of me can understand that he is probably really tired of eating the same thing for so long....and pizza, well, who can resist??

Hi Diane, I thought that too and have made many changes - none of which have helped. Right now, I'm concentrating on the food aspect of the problem - if he can eat more foods than just rabbit and pototo, the quality of BOTH our lives will increase dramatically! :biggrin1:

Here is a link with more info which shows the pattern of where eruptions occur on a dog with environmental allergies:

_"While humans usually show respiratory symptoms with atopy, our pets almost always show allergic reactions through their skin. This means that not only atopy shows as itchy skin but so do food allergy and insect bite allergy"_

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_inhalant_allergies.html


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## Julie

Here I thought my "main squeeze" was all better.....poor baby.He had to snatch some pizza for a treat!:bolt: 

Sorry...I do hope and pray it has no effect on him and he is able to eat more things soon. Give him a huge hug and a kiss for me! I so love that Lincoln!:hug::kiss:


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## Rita

Jane, how is Lincoln today? Did he get sick from the pizza? I hope not.

I do feel for him. He must be bored with the same food. I have to switch Houston's food every bag (not brand only flavor) because he won't eat it. 

Poor, poor, Lincoln.


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## Lynn

Hi Jane,

I have two havs with food allergies now....so I am getting some experience on this. I have never had food allergies, but my brother and daughter had severe allergies....so I have learned from all this.

I understand your wanting to feed Lincoln something new....but I had to did feed my Lab potatoe and duck for most of his life and he really didn't care. 

Missy is now more restricted on type of food intake than Casper and I want to change her diet all the time and every time I do....brings on a problem. So I am thinking maybe not.....but everytime I slip and give her something, probably should not she gets diarreaha for a couple of days.:frusty:

Every time I give Casper chicken anything for a couple of days...he starts to itch. Missy can not do the wheat fillers in dog food. Corn is a NO NO....Corn anything....the vet gave us special allergy food with corn starch....that was bad.


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## Paige

Poor Lincoln, I too was hoping that when it popped up again, it would be good news. I struggle everyday with food allergies, I know how crazy it can be dealing with them. :frusty: Just know that dogs have very few taste buds compared to us so they really don't mind eating the same food everyday. 

I hope you figure this out soon, for your own piece of mind. Because it is frustrating:frusty::frusty:


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## mintchip

Hi! How is Lincoln doing today?
Are both your guys eating the same thing now? If not could Lincoln be taking some food out of the other dish?:suspicious:


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## Missy

Oh poor allergic dogs!!! Jane I am so sad that Lincoln is still going through this. 
And poor little Ollie. And Lynn, I didn't know Casper and Missy had allergies... 
I feel lucky that Jasper's have cleared up as he got older. He still scratches but no more sores. But I did notice that when I gave them each a bath with human pantene shampoo (blond expressions and onyx expressions) they were so much less itchy. and this Nova Pearls Power Moisturizing Mist really helps too. It also helps as a detangler.

http://opentip.com/product_info.php?products_id=656641

Maybe try not doing kibble. Mine pretty much eat the Nature's Variety raw medallions (which I cook) --- they eat a little kibble too - I mix the Innova with the EVO red meat --but I sought out kibbles with the least ingredients in them. My own strange investigation targeted in on Flax as being a culprit-- (Jasper would only eat kibbles without flax- But the medallions have flax so go figure) but the itching got better. The California Naturals have very few ingredients and may be a good choice. The puppy lamb and rice was a big hit here- but the boys never got over the loose stool stage so I went back to the Innova mix. I think sometimes the foods the vets sell are not as good as the high end others.... I would also cut out just for a while anything else they are getting-- including vitamins, treats, breath spray or things you put in their water. you never know what silly ingredient could be in these things that all of a sudden they have a reaction to.

Allergies suck. Believe me I know from the human standpoint- but it's so frustrating not being help our furnabies. good luck gals.

Give em all extra scratches from me.


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## Jane

Thanks, everyone! So far, Lincoln doesn't seem to be having a bad reaction to the stolen pizza.  He hasn't stolen Scout's food - just my son's food. I feed them on opposite sides of my kitchen island and I stand between them for the 30 seconds it takes them to inhale their food! 

Missy (and Paige), my heart just goes out to you since you are so limited in what you can eat without having a reaction. At least the dogs don't mind so much eating the same things, but for a person, that is really hard.  I know the limited diet is hardest for me (vs. Lincoln) because I am a spoiler and I love to give different foods and treats to my boys.

I am anxious to figure out what he can eat though so I can help his coat get back into shape. The rabbit/potato diet is very low in fat and his coat is dry. He also lost about half his coat density after he went off the Prednisone (a side effect). I have been going through the recommended kibbles listed in the Whole Dog Journal, checking ingredients, and narrowing it down to a few possibilities for when we are ready to do kibble again. I like to add in whole foods and supplements to the kibble too.


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## Rita

Jane, Glad Lincoln didn't have a reaction to the pizza. :biggrin1:

Hope you find out what he can eat soon. It must be frustrating. Hang in there. You are such a good Mommy. :biggrin1:


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## havaluv

Jane, since I haven't found a solution yet, I hesitate to offer any advice, but both my vets recommended a special fish oil supplement. The one Ollie is on is called AllerG-3. If Lincoln has stabilized maybe it would be worth a try for his coat. I noticed Ollie's coat improved a lot with it. His coat is still short because he breaks it off scratching or even sometimes pulls it out with his teeth, but it's thicker and denser and feels soft and wonderful.


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## Roe

Healthy Balance has allergy dog food. I used it for Pebbles for a while.
I think most of these little dogs are sensetive to many things. I have been dealing with Pebbles itching since I first got her. I Tried several different foods to no avail. They thought maybe she was allergic to fleas or flea bites we treated for all of that even though she never had fleas. Now the vet thinks she may have been born with puppy mites and never got rid of them. So we have been using revolution. It is a bit better but she still itches. If it doesn't stop I am going to have allergy tests done on her.
Has Lincoln had any tests done? Hope all of you find answers.

Roe


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## Lynn

Jane,

Did you try looking up infor on Solid Gold

http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/

They have some very different dog food types very different than others I found, very much into healthy dog foods. There is an 800 number you can call and talk to someone and see if they could recommend a food for Lincoln.


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## Roe

Thanks Lynn I will check it out.

Roe


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## Jane

Thanks, Rita! So far, he is doing well with chicken! I am so thrilled I don't have to buy any more rabbits!!

Shelly, I will look into the AllerG-3. That is an interesting name - is it specifically for dogs with allergies? Even Scout could use it - his coat tends to break more easily than Lincoln's.

Thanks for the info on solid gold - I did look into the wee bits one. It has cranberries, so I will need to make sure he is okay with those first. I am "testing" him with real foods first before I decide on a kibble to try... so I don't end up with umpteen partially eaten bags of kibble in my garage (like my dog shampoo collection!!) :biggrin1:


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## Donna Ryan

Hi Jane!
I am sorry you are having such a hard time with Lincoln's skin problem. I have gone through something similar for the last 3 months with my boy, Darcy. WE kept treating him for fleas and bombing our house with foggers but he kept itching. His chest in red and he has lost some of his hair. That is where he scratches the most. About 2 weeks ago, I started itching and getting bites. I took him to the VEt and the DErm Vet. They suggested I use Advantage Multi on him and I have given him one dose so far but he is still itching. THe Derm Doc said it could be mites even though he didn't find them on him. The other possibility would be allergy. WE decided to try treating the possibility of mites first and if nothing works, we will tackle the allergy route. He eats Innova Evo which has no grains in it. I started researching on the net and ran across a site for a product, KLEEN Green which is supposed to kill mites on the dog, the human and in the environment. The other site I ran across is Dermatechrx.com which also has solutions for mites, or whatever skin parasite, for both humans and animals. You might want to think about this if Lincoln has any bites or red spots. The Green Solution is all natural so it seems it would be harmless. My husband has had no bites so far. 
I admire your patience - it must be SO FRUSTRATING! If I have any success. I will let you know. Good Luck


----------



## havaluv

Hi Jane,
I'm sorry...I haven't been on in a while and I missed your question about the AllerG-3. Yes, it's especially for dogs and cats with allergies. It's an Omega-3 fatty acid supplement. The ingredients are:

fish oil, di-alpha Tocopherol (source of vitamin E), Vitamin A palmitate, and Vitamin D3

Both my regular vet and the dermatologist vet suggested this supplement. I put 1/2 a pump on his food daily. I give it to my chihuahua too since it just sounds like something that would be good for them. It smells VERY very fishy, but they both LOVE it and now won't eat their food (we're doing duck and potato) til I put in on it.

How is Lincoln's itching now? Any breakthrough's???


----------



## Laurief

Yes, Jane, we would love an update on Lincoln! How are the itchies??


----------



## Jane

Hi Donna and Shelly, and thanks for the info on AllerG! 

Laurie, you are so sweet to ask about Lincoln. I have been doing a lot of research lately looking into what kind of kibbles to try for Lincoln now that he is done with the food allergy rabbit/potato diet. I have added chicken and some of his favorite chewies back into his regular diet and so far, so good. We suspect he has an environmental allergy (something in the air!) as well as being allergic to morning glories and sweet potatoes (which are strangely in the same botanical family). Sometimes after I walk him, a couple days later, he may get a couple of scabs again on his face. But nothing horrible like before, so he doesn't need drugs anymore. 

Anyway, I really like the ingredient list of Fromm's Adult Gold because it is very similar to the Wellness which my dogs did well on. It is very hard to get Fromms in my area, so I am trying to special order it with greater-than-expected difficulty. I'll spare you the details. Anyway, until the Fromm's arrives (if at all), I just picked up a bag of Solid Gold Hund-N-Flocken to try in the meantime. I want to get Lincoln off the IVD Rabbit/Potato kibble (it is expensive, I can only get it from the vet, and it is making his coat horribly dry.) The SG H-N-F is a lamb based food and I was hoping for a chicken based one. It also doesn't have probiotics in it, so if he likes it, I will look into supplements for that. 

After Lincoln's allergy diet restrictions and the month of Prednisone, he basically lost 50% of his coat. He had an incredibly thick cottony coat before - very poofy. So now he basically looks like a "normal" Hav, with his hair hanging down, not poofing out :biggrin1: It is MUCH easier to groom him now too - 20 minutes tops and I only need to do it 2x/week now. I kinda miss the poof though....hee hee.


----------



## Laurief

Oh Jane, I am so glad to hear that he is doing better. I remember when this first started you thought that the sweet potatoes might be the culprit - very interesting. Well at least the grooming is a little easier for you, and maybe he will get his poof back soon!!
Laurie


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## Missy

Thanks for the update Jane. I hope Lincoln's puff comes back. 

ps. i love scouts tongue picture in the gallery!!!


----------



## Paige

Jane, it's great to hear Lincoln is doing better, I know it has been a very long and hard road for the both of you.


----------



## Poornima

Jane, it's great to know that Lincoln is doing better. I hope he stays healthy and allery free with the new diet.


----------



## Jane

Thanks, Laurie, Missy, Paige and Poornima! It has been a long time for my poor baby Lincoln! He's just such a good boy.

Missy, thanks for your nice comments on Scout's photo in the gallery! He has the LONGEST tongue I've ever seen. It is even longer than what you see there. He is part lizard, I swear!!!


----------



## havaluv

I'm so glad Lincoln is doing better....it gives me hope!!!! His coat will grow back and you'll have your poofy baby before you know it.  I keep hoping Ollie's hair will grow fast too.


----------



## Leslie

Jane~ I'm so pleased to hear Lincoln is doing so much better. Sure hope it continues. I never knew that sweet potatoes and morning glories were related. You just never know what you'll learn here, do you?

Have you checked www.petfooddirect.com for the Fromms? I know they carry a lot of brands but, I can't remember if Fromms is one of them.


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## Lina

Leslie, petfooddirect.com does indeed carry Fromm's.

Jane, I am so happy to hear about Lincoln! I'm sure you are very relieved to see him feeling so much better.


----------



## JASHavanese

Jane said:


> It is MUCH easier to groom him now too - 20 minutes tops and I only need to do it 2x/week now. I kinda miss the poof though....hee hee.


It's nice to hear he's doing better. Do you have before and after pictures?


----------



## Jane

JASHavanese said:


> It's nice to hear he's doing better. Do you have before and after pictures?


I don't have good photos that show the difference. I can see a lot more of his pink skin now. His legs and paws are especially thin - they used to be big, thick and fluffy. I think I will take advantage of this opportunity to let his coat grow to the floor :biggrin1:

When I looked into ordering the Fromm's online, the shipping was almost as much as the food itself.....that's a bit more than I want to pay and I don't want to explain that one to my DH! :suspicious:


----------



## Missy

Jane, I am surprised you cannot get the Fromms in the Bay Area. Perhaps you could ask your pet store (not petco or petsmart) to order it for you. Often times even if they don't carry it in the store- one of their distributors carry it and they can get it in for you at no extra cost.


----------



## mintchip

Glad to hear Lincoln is doing better!!! :whoo:


----------



## Beamer

Happy to hear Lincoln is doing better now! 

Ryan


----------



## JASHavanese

Jane said:


> I don't have good photos that show the difference. I can see a lot more of his pink skin now. His legs and paws are especially thin - they used to be big, thick and fluffy. I think I will take advantage of this opportunity to let his coat grow to the floor :biggrin1:
> 
> When I looked into ordering the Fromm's online, the shipping was almost as much as the food itself.....that's a bit more than I want to pay and I don't want to explain that one to my DH! :suspicious:


LOL that would be an easier time to grow his coat out.
I wonder if doggie gifts has Fromn's? They ship free.


----------



## mckennasedona

Jane, I'm glad to hear that Lincoln is much better. Odd about the sweet potato and morning glory. I've heard good things about the Hund-N-Flocken.


----------



## Jane

Missy said:


> Jane, I am surprised you cannot get the Fromms in the Bay Area. Perhaps you could ask your pet store (not petco or petsmart) to order it for you. Often times even if they don't carry it in the store- one of their distributors carry it and they can get it in for you at no extra cost.


Sally told me they have it in San Fran, but that's a 40 minute drive for me....too far.....I'm too lazy....

When I called Pet Food Express, the guy was like, "Whaaa? Never heard of it!"

I'm trying to special order it now from a local pet store....long story short....the owner has been out of the store with her parents who are visiting from Russia....I keep bugging the salesguy....we can't tell if it has actually been ordered or not.....they *think* so.....won't find out until it arrives....or NOT! :suspicious:

Also, to be extra difficult, I am ordering the Adult Gold. The few stores that carry Fromm carry the Four Star Nutritionals line ("a la Veg") only.


----------



## SMARTY

Interesting you should mention Lincoln’s coat getting dry. Smarty has been on the Natural Balance Duck and Sweet Potato and her coat is going through a major change. I thought it had to do with going from a puppy coat to adult coat. She is shedding like crazy. For a non shedding breed we certainly have a lot of hair on our clothes. I have totally given up on petting her before I change when I come in from work. She has learned to dance around even in my closet until the sweats are on.

Back to subject. I am coming to the opinion that this scratching may be a too much protein rather than other things. We would have to change our horses’ food when they were not on a hard working schedule or some would get what was referred to as protein bumps. They would scratch their faces on the stalls and rub their legs. Smarty was getting quit a bit of chicken, liver, and beef as treats when training. As we started back to working in agility and I am giving her these again, she is scratching again.


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## Roe

That is great news about lincoln. You must be so relieved.
With Pebbles I tried Healthy Balance but now that I think about it, it had sweet potatoes in it. I think this new food does too. Maybe I will try the next food with no sweet potatoes and see what happens with her. 

Was Lincoln always itching and biting his fur?

Roe


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## Donna Ryan

Followup: Mr. Darcy was given a shot of Ivermectin as a test for mites. He seemed to improve SOME during that week so the vet gave him Revolution and will repeat it in two weeks and again in another two weeks. He is doing better so I am praying this will be the end of his itching, and MINE! And hopefully no allergies to deal with.


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## Jane

Donna, that is great news! I also suspected mites and Lincoln did have an ivermectin shot. He didn't respond to it at all, and had a bad flare up just days after that  But it was necessary to rule that out as a cause. Keep us posted!


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## Donna Ryan

Thank you too and I'm glad Lincoln has improved! Donna


----------



## marjrc

Jane, hopefully your order from Fromm's will come into the local store and you won't have to worry about where to get it again. Where I work, we also order special dog foods for those that ask. We are the only place within many miles that carry Fromm's, thought he A la Veg type, but when customers ask, we can pretty much get what they ask for. Shipping from the U.S. to here is crazy, so I can sympathize with not wanting to pay double for your food just to get it to your house!! 

It's great news that Lincoln is doing so much better. I'm very happy to hear that!


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## Jane

Hi Marj,

I just called and no luck....it didn't come in. The salesguy and I are still not sure if it was actually ordered. He said the owner should be in sometime today and he will ask her. 

So far, Lincoln is doing well - I'm transitioning him onto Solid Gold Hund-N-Flocken. He seems to like the taste well enough. 

How are you liking your new job? Is it part-time? You'll let us know about any cool, new foods/treats/toys you become privy to working there, right? :biggrin1:


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