# Loaded question....



## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

Do you think church's should have the same rules as public schools for the youth? When NOT on a trip just regular stuff. I am not refering to drugs or anything illegal.


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## Havtahava (Aug 20, 2006)

What kinds of rules are you considering? Language? Romantic relationships?

In general, I'd say no though. Public schools are meant to be academic institutions with some supervision in the social aspect. Churches have a different focus and most parents consider them a safe place to be sheltered from some of the other things kids are exposed to at school. They also tend to have a higher ratio of supervision. Just my very general two cents.


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## JASHavanese (Apr 24, 2007)

Can you be a little more specific?


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## Lilly's mom (Aug 10, 2007)

Youth dept rules. I allow my son to carry a pocket knife. Tonight at church the youth minister ask who has a pocket knife so my son offered his. The minister then proceeds to use it and refuse to return it. When my husband calls him we aretold that it is the same rules as school. We homeschool so I do not "know" all of the rules. We were not given a copy of said rules and I believe it is MY decision not his. His is for a spiritual guidance. No I do not want to hear it is a saftey issue. All men in my family and my husband carry pocket kives. If he had been careless that would be one thing but he (my son) didn't even have it out. I also believe he used my son to set an example to the other young men at church and I am FURIOUS.


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## DAJsMom (Oct 27, 2006)

We've had an incident at our church in the last year involving an elementary age child showing off and making threats to other children with a knife. It's forced the people in charge to institute some rules just because it's difficult to enforce rules that don't exist, and in this case there needed to be some rules in order to safely resolve the situation in a way that would ultimately benefit the child involved. Probably not all kids have been taught how to safely and responsibly handle a knife as your kids likely have, and there are some that you wouldn't want to have a pocket knife at church. I think you should speak to the minister in your situation, explain how you feel, and ask that expectations/rules for youth be made clear to everyone ahead of time. It's not fair to make an example of a kid, if that's what happened, if the rules were not even known. If the minister felt that having a pocket knife was unacceptable, he should have spoken to your son and to you privately, in my opinion.

In a sinless world, churches wouldn't need rules about knives, but this world isn't there yet.


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## JeanMarie (Mar 2, 2008)

> It's not fair to make an example of a kid, if that's what happened, if the rules were not even known. If the minister felt that having a pocket knife was unacceptable, he should have spoken to your son and to you privately, in my opinion.


And...he needs to give you, the parent, the knife back. Good grief.


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## trueblue (Jan 22, 2008)

I think he should give the knife back, BUT I don't think that the rule is stupid. It's for the safety of the kids attending, and I think it should apply whether the kids are in school or church groups.


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## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

I think it's ok to ask and take up any pocket knives and tell everyone that it is not acceptable to bring these to church. However, this needs to be done in a loving manner, and of course, the pocket knife should be returned to the person. IF the child is very young or a troublemaker, then I can see the leader turning it back over to the parents. Either way, it's not the leader's possession, and it should not be kept. 

But all this can be done in a way that is not making the youth feel like they did something wrong. Doing it in a manner that makes anyone feel bad is wrong, and is not a good christian example to set. All this can be done in a way where everyone understands it's not because of the person carrying the pocket knife, but general rules for everyone's safety. If he did keep it for good, or made someone feel picked on, then I would try and talk to the person in private, explaining that they are not setting the right example and doing something in a way that 'belittles' someone else reflects badly on the church (if he did do it in this manner, which he may not of). If he was rude to your son, then I would speak with him and if he doesn't respond well or doesn't give the knife back, then I would privately go above him and speak with the deacons / pastor. 

Of course, this should be talked about not in a defensive mode, but with caring and concern and the point being that the leader of the kids needs to set proper examples of respect to others, while still enforcing the rules. It shouldn't be discussed with any kind of 'defensive' attitude - b/c this would be wrong as well. If he is defensive, then it's probably b/c he doesn't feel like he is really in charge, and I would respectifully and politely let the deacons or pastors know. Just make sure and keep your own voice calm and polite.

I am sure you did teach your son how to properly take care of a pocket knife and show him how to safely use it and I am sure he is responsible with it. This doesn't mean that others are taught respect for this or that others wouldn't try and 'show off'. It just makes general sense that a church wouldn't want any of this on there grounds -- but it still belongs to your son and should at least be given back to you, the parent. The rules that a school gets to keep what they confisicate, should not apply to a church in my opinion. However, if this same situation were to be repeated (ie, everyone knows the rules) and they found the pocket knife on your son a second or third time, then I would see that being a position of taking it away for a period of time. Some kind of rules for repeated behaviour should be in place. But for someone not using it or showing off with it, and it being the first time, then I don't think they should keep it.

By the way, I am in east TN as well. PM me, if you want, maybe we live in the same town. Most likely not, but worth a try.


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## HavaneseSoon (Nov 4, 2008)

My children went to a Christian School from 7th to 12th grade. And, I as a parent would not allow my child to carry a knife to school even if the knife was ok at home, nor would I expect another student having one. 

Has the teacher called you? If not, I would call and speak to this teacher and apologize for your child having the knife and ask the teacher to give the knife to you.


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## Chasza (Dec 10, 2008)

I do agree with Linda that you should offer an apology for him bringing it in. The thing is that since you homeschool, you really are likely unaware of the depths of problems when kids in school get together. I am as well, since I don't have school age children. Thinking about it, I think the problem that churches have is that there are some kids that come from the schools with issues and bring those issues to church. I do think the church leaders have alot to deal with, as well. With church leaders, they have a double dose of responsiblity. They are trying to teach kids about Christ and understand that people have to grow in the knowledge of Christ. So, for kids that are troublemakers (I'm not talking about your son), they have to gently guide them while setting rules. Some rules must be enforced for the safety of the other people in the church. For example, I attend church with someone who's son is banned and if he set foot on the property, the police will be called. He was into baaad things and bringing it to church. So, what I am saying is that the leaders really have a balancing act and that can be hard and tiring to do and sometimes they might go overboard in being reactive.

I guess I am seeing both sides of the story, and hope it can be resolved without any long term bad feelings. It can be really easy to misunderstand or over-react about some things. The important thing is to gently try and resolve the issue without pointing fingers and blame.


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## mimismom (Feb 15, 2009)

It seems your son was there for service or a religious class in the evening, and I am not clear if the minister asked to borrow a pocket knife and then did not return it. 

As with a public place, certain restrictions are always set as to whether or not illegal weapons or concealed weapons and other items that can be considered weapons can be entered into public building for the safety of all patrons. If such as a rule applies then it would seem everyone has to abide by that rule. 

Maybe you can bring up this matter with the person who oversees the youth minister.

If the minister somehow found out your son carries a pocket knife then attention to any policies or rules your church has set in place should have been brought up privately.


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## Scooter's Family (May 23, 2008)

My sons are allowed to have pocket knives but they aren't allowed to take them anywhere. Even though they've been taught how to handle them safely that doesn't mean they always will so they can't have them when we aren't around to supervise. You also wouldn't want another child to get it and hurt themselves or someone else.


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## Patti McNeil (Apr 20, 2009)

I'll jump in since I've worked at a Catholic school forever and since I also teach public school and homeschooled children religious education on the weekends. A child should not be allowed to carry a pocket knife to school, church, airports, or any other public venue in my opinion. I can see the need for a pocket knife while camping, hiking, or working on projects at home, but I can't understand a need for a child to have one in social settings other than those. I agree that your son may very well be trained in safety usage of the pocket knife, but children are children and accidents happen. It's too easy for that pocket knife to end up in another child's hands who may not know safety rules.
Now, I don't agree that the minister should keep the knife. I think he should return it to the child's parents, and explain his reasoning. I also believe the parents owe an apology for sending the child with a knife. As a Sunday school teacher, I would be extremely upset that a child came to class with a knife. Homeschooled children should also be taught what is appropriate and what is not in social settings, whether the rule is specifically spelled out or not. 
(you said it was a loaded question, so I suspect you are open to opinions such as this).


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